# The Audio-gd Compass (Was: Designing an alternative to the Zero DAC/amp)



## Currawong

*Please check these two links and the FAQ first:

 Audio-gd's web page for the Compass here.*

 and:

*My main Compass FAQ I've written up and posted here.*

 ==============

*Shotgun FAQ: (Updated April 13) *

*What's the current status?*
 The final version has begun shipping.

*How does it compare to other DACs and amps?*
 Please see the list of reviews in the FAQ.

*What are people's impressions of it? I don't want to read through the whole thread to find out.*
 The impressions of the final unit start from this post on page 277 (if you're viewing with 15 posts per page). They are also listed in the FAQ.

*What is the HDAM/OPA?*
 Long story. It's an amplification circuit for the DAC section. Audio-gd has three designs, the Earth, Sun and Moon. Each have a slightly different "voice", with the Earth being the closest to neutral. Switching them allows you to tweak the sound slightly.

*Which HDAM/OPA is best for me?*
 You can read majkel's review of them here, which should give you some idea. Most people also buy the Moon, or Moon and Sun. The nice thing is, when you get bored, you can switch them around and enjoy something different for a while. Their sound changes over the first 350 hours of use (as they burn in) too.

*Do I need to do any soldering to change the OPA/HDAM?*
 No. You only need a phillips screwdriver for the ground wire. The HDAM/OPA itself goes in a socket.

*Will it drive my headphones ok?*
 It works fine with low impedance Denons and high impedance Sennheisers with no problems, so it should be fine with anything currently on the market. A gain switch will be added to make it easy to adapt to different headphones.

*Can I order one now?*
 Yes. See the payment link on Audio-gd's site for Paypal info. As they are being made in batches, and because they are tested and burned in for 100 hours first, you may have to wait a couple of weeks to receive a unit. Don't forget to specify the voltage you require (110 or 220) when ordering.

*Should I order the Audio-gd power cable as well?*
 That's up to you. I thought it made a good improvement. This is the first 'audiophile' power cable I've ever used, so don't take my word for it.

 Please see the *FAQ* for more info.

 ==============

*The following is the original version of this post:*

 With some of the recent concerns that have come up regarding the popular Zero DAC/amp, notably quality and getting the unit fixed if it is faulty, I asked the owner of Audio-gd, who designed and sells the HDAM opamps, if he was interested in designing a Zero alternative with similar features. 

 The logic is simple: It seems many people want a unit to get them started in Head-fi without a huge outlay. Since this often means something Chinese-made, there's some concern about quality and customer service, with units sometimes arriving on the other side of the world faulty or dead. What we've seen so far from Audio-gd is that they demonstrated both an interest in making good quality gear and providing good customer service.

 We now have a chance to have this thing designed the way we'd want it if we were after a basic but decent DAC and head/pre-amp. So far, we've got a list of basic specs of the design:

Lightweight case, to save on weight and shipping costs. This because Audio-gd gear is boxed in quite solid, hand-shaped aluminium and is heavy.
Separate DAC and head/pre-amp boards, easily removable.
Surface-mount jacks (instead of jacks connected with wires), again for easy removal of components so they can be upgraded or replaced easily.
Coax, optical and USB input. The Zero is lacking the latter.
RCA out. XLR was suggested but is not necessary.
1x or 2x RCA pre-input, so just the head/pre-amp can be used, with the DAC bypassed.
Alps volume pot. No cheap rubbish as seen in the stock Zero.
110-240V switch-able power supply.
All high-quality components (Dale resistors, Fever caps, etc.)
All discrete transistors, no opamps!
The headamp should be able to drive low and high impedance HPs adequately, also notably sounding good with such headphones as Grado SR60s and Denon D2000s, as well as the usual Sennheiser HD650s.

 What do people think of the idea? The goal is something that sells for around US$200-250, maybe depending on specs. There is the possibility of different versions of the unit, with, say, a better headphone amp or somesuch.


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## BigTony

The most obvious opton is a DAC only version. Many zero users don't use the h/a at all, so this would be an option to get a decent DAC without the overhead of a h/a.


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## Currawong

BigTony: That's a good point. There could easily be an option to order one without the head/pre-amp board. They do have the $245/265 DAC-100 though.


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## slwiser

Two DAC boards, one per channel using a high end DAC chip on each board. 

 Each DAC board has it's own power supply. 

 No need for an amp section or Alps control. 

 USB interface chip can output at least 96kHz frequency using I2S connection to DAC boards.

 Switches to selection how much upsampling is applied by each DAC board with lights showing the upsampling selected.

 Selector for input type, optical, RCA or USB.


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## fc911c

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Two DAC boards, one per channel using a high end DAC chip on each board. 

 Each DAC board has it's own power supply. 

 No need for an amp section or Alps control. 

 USB interface chip can output at least 96kHz frequency using I2S connection to DAC boards.

 Switches to selection how much upsampling is applied by each DAC board with lights showing the upsampling selected.

 Selector for input type, optical, RCA or USB._

 


 yes all of the above plus XLR outs.

 Thanks
 Frank


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## Crikey

Currawong, Any time frame estimate you can give us for the dac(/amp) to go into production? I know this is still the early stages but I would be interested in this for my next purchase.

 As for suggestions i don't really have anything to offer since i'm still officially a noob but it would be good to see the amp sell in the lower 200s rather than be closer to 250 since that would make it more of a entry level option.


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## Hottuna_

An interesting development I must say.
 Certainly looking forward to the results.
 I am looking to get a decent affordable external DAC in the near future.
 As you mentioned, the Zero seems to have some quality issues judging from the feedback posted on here recently.


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## Currawong

slwiser: CD×ªÅÌ/DAC

 I believe Troy has the DAC-8 if you want to know how good it is. 

 Crikey: Kingwa reckoned he'd need 2 months, so we're talking January or Feb I'm guessing. He thought he could create different options for different prices. He's enthusiastic to keep the price down, but I might suggest he do "sale to benefit head-fi" sponsorship, so that everyone benefits.


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## Crikey

Great news! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Definitely looking towards this amp now. Hopefully i can get it cheaper when I source it locally in china


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## punk_guy182

Yes I would consider buying a good DAC if: 

 - Less than 500$
 - No need for a headphone amp section
 - USB, Toslink and SPDIF inputs
 - Has buttons in front to switch between deifferent sources.


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## syg

I'd love a DAC-only option as well, but I'd want a switch between the different inputs (as in, a clicky knob thing) instead of buttons. My biggest pet peeve with the Zero is a usability one, it's annoying having to switch to Coaxial everytime I turn on the unit.


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## smuh

Just a quick question: How much different is their DAC-100 from a modded Zero's DAC?


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## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smuh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a quick question: How much different is their DAC-100 from a modded Zero's DAC?_

 

I hope to get the DAC100 for audition by next week, and to compare it with the Franken mod. however, zero with franken mod is still much cheaper than the DAC100.


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## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smuh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a quick question: How much different is their DAC-100 from a modded Zero's DAC?_

 

I want to know that too.

 As for the ZERO Franken mod, you need to have soldering skills and all the parts to do it. I think some of us like me don't have the soldering skills and the equipment and parts to do that kind of modding.


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## MikeW

Is a frankenzero really that much cheaper? once you buy HDAM and caps? The DAC100 is only 265 /w an HDAM in it.


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## scootermafia

For the Unit - 
 Two separate boxes, hopefully each with a dual mono design would be nice and hopefully not too expensive.

 The DAC - 
 Must be handsome and with a thick aluminum front and a few very tasteful LEDs. Look at the most expensive items in this head-fi market...they all look like a million bucks. Very simple front with no ugly Chinese fontwork. USB Dac is optional but popular, coax/optical in. Invest in some nice jacks. 
 It doesn't have to upsample, I like the design of the Moodlab Concept, no oversampling. 

 Separate box -
 A matching, well made headphone amp. An expensive volume pot, plenty of aluminum, a few custom switches for gain, cross, whatever. No op-amps, a real amp section would be nice. Make balanced an option for the whole setup. Have neutrik headphone jacks, cuz they make me happy. Dual mono design of course. 

 Do your homework on selling these things. A US shipper would be nice, to speed things up, with a real phone number and real customer service, I love Darkvoice stuff already and my amp isn't even here yet, but dealing with China is cumbersome and emails take days to get answered and mailing costs are high. Sell them all direct from your website...I hate fancy manufacturers where you have to email them and haggle to get one. Build a crapload of them, and start the selling. Sell them on a nice ebay store, too.

 The Stello product series is beautiful and ideal. A stack of good looking aluminum boxes, nothing tacky, the right features and performance.


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## scootermafia

The notion of designing a head-fi oriented company from the ground up with the perfect DAC/amp for a perfect price just reminds me of how many problems the chinese head-fi market has. They have so much talent and potential, but they just need the right angle and presentation.

 Go to audiophilechina.com and see all the different brands, they're solid items but need some work. 

 Most of the designs look solid - stuff like the Zero DAC has been a smash hit around here because it delivers the goods for a low price. But work on presentation...lots of people judge books by their cover...I can at least learn a few things about what something might be like by how the outside looks, although of course I look inside the unit and listen to what others have to say. Make your website look better than audiophilechina.com, hire two people that speak perfect english to man your phones and website and answer emails instantaneously - reputation is built when communication is good, and people will love your company even before they get your good product. 

 With a good product and distribution in the right way, a new DAC/amp offering could be the next big thing here, and I love that the company is taking suggestions straight from us. So many companies have tried to please us, but we can learn from their mistakes since none of them have been absolutely perfect.


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## DaMnEd

A DAC with a high performance chip like the ESS Sabre8 Reference (ES9008) (or Wolfson WM8741) would be nice, with proper switch between inputs (S/PDIF Coax / Toslink / USB), proper coax 75ohm implementation with BNC connectors, and really making an effort for the USB input to be good and not just functional like many do.

 Looks would not be my main concern, because the finishing touch that make amps look like a million bucks usually cost a lot to be done right, I would prefer that money be spent in the build quality as in durability and proper design/implementation of every aspect of this unit, and the components of course.

 Those wanting a very good looking front plate, make it optional. I only mention the front plate because the rest of the unit, even the Stellos are very simple ALU boxes, nothing exceptional is needed in that regard.

 Priced as low as possible, a group buy effort could be arranged to make this possible, keeping the cost as low as possible, this way we enable Kingwa to order components in quantity from his suppliers at lower cost.

 I understand the idea of a ZERO done right, it's just not what I am looking for atm, I have no interest in an amp, but I am very interested in something with a better chip/performance than the ZERO, even the heavily modded ones. The goal with the ZERO was never the amp, just an extra.


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## smuh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikeW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is a frankenzero really that much cheaper? once you buy HDAM and caps? The DAC100 is only 265 /w an HDAM in it._

 

That's how I put the calculation together as well. Even if the DAC-100 cost you 10-20 USD more, then you still do not risk to mess up the whole thing. Plus the fact you would have to order almost everything seperate and end up paying a lot of money just for shipping.


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## nsx_23

hmm, RCA out isn't too convenient to use as a headphone amp.


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## smuh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A DAC with a high performance chip like the ESS Sabre8 Reference (ES9008) (or Wolfson WM8741) would be nice, with proper switch between inputs (S/PDIF Coax / Toslink / USB), proper coax 75ohm implementation with BNC connectors, and really making an effort for the USB input to be good and not just functional like many do.

 Looks would not be my main concern, because the finishing touch that make amps look like a million bucks usually cost a lot to be done right, I would prefer that money be spent in the build quality as in durability and proper design/implementation of every aspect of this unit, and the components of course.

 Those wanting a very good looking front plate, make it optional. I only mention the front plate because the rest of the unit, even the Stellos are very simple ALU boxes, nothing exceptional is needed in that regard.

 Priced as low as possible, a group buy effort could be arranged to make this possible, keeping the cost as low as possible, this way we enable Kingwa to order components in quantity from his suppliers at lower cost.

 I understand the idea of a ZERO done right, it's just not what I am looking for atm, I have no interest in an amp, but I am very interested in something with a better chip/performance than the ZERO, even the heavily modded ones. The goal with the ZERO was never the amp, just an extra._

 

At least from my point of view, Damned's was able to stay close to what the Zero currently delivers. Some others "I want this and that" just get too far away from the Zero and it sounds like that some of us try to create the "dream dac" - all in one box, all features, BEST sound for less then what a fully modded Zero costs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I would place the order right now if that is possible, but we need to be realistic and don't get too far from the Zero. 

 But maybe thats just me...


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## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm, RCA out isn't too convenient to use as a headphone amp._

 

The RCA out would be for the dac/pre-amp part of this unit, like the ZERO.


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## Crikey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smuh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At least from my point of view, Damned's was able to stay close to what the Zero currently delivers. Some others "I want this and that" just get too far away from the Zero and it sounds like that some of us try to create the "dream dac" - all in one box, all features, BEST sound for less then what a fully modded Zero costs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I would place the order right now if that is possible, but we need to be realistic and don't get too far from the Zero. 

 But maybe thats just me... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I agree with smuh here as well. While I don't know what the costs of some the suggestions are going to be, things like 2 separate units and premium faceplate/build quality are going to ramp up the costs. Making this well over the budget. Whats good about the zero and hopefully this dac/amp is that it had a high performance/price ratio for a budget dac. So i guess what I'm trying to say is providing suggestions are fine; but try to remember what the purpose of this amp/dac is, and that is to provide an alternative to the fully modded zero DAC with better QC, hopefully a better sound at a similar price point. So please make suggestions that are within reason for a budget dac/amp


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## DaMnEd

Ideally the price would be set "a bit" above what a tweaked ZERO with all the kinks costs (HDAM, better components and QC), we do have to realize that the basic ZERO cost what it costs because of the lacking QC and thousands of units sold, I do not think we are about to order xx000 units, so, the price will probably always be considerably above the tweaked ZERO costs.

 Almost all over here purchased the ZERO (or considered), but with upgrades, the stock unit is nothing special, really, even at it's price point better or equally good are available now, so I think starting at the previously mentioned price range would be ideal, but only Kingwa can access what that would cost and look like really.

 Personally I would make a better DAC chip a condition, we've seen what that chip can do for the most part with the ZERO and it's mods, so that was pushed quite far. If the chip where to be the same, I'd be better of with the DAC-100 Audio-GD already sells (shares the AD1852 the ZERO unit uses), I'm not looking for that, personally, nor I think it would make much sense for Audio-GD to design another unit with that chip.


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## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm, RCA out isn't too convenient to use as a headphone amp._

 

No, the RCA out will be for the DAC, the headphone amp will have a headphone socket obviously.

 As for the purpose, smuh is right, the idea is to create a cheap DAC + HP amp that sounds good as well which doesn't have the issues the Zero does. Kingwa already has designed some serious DACs, dual-mono, multi-chip and all the rest of that if you want one. I'm not interested in a cheap unit either (I just bought a Northstar!) but I am interested, after all I've gotten involved in regarding the Zero, in being involved in something that's better quality for about the same price or a bit more, and sold by someone who gives a **** about the quality of what they sell. I want to be able to suggest something on the forums that isn't going to be a lottery as to whether it'll arrive dead, with opamps backwards or fry someone's headphones and need upgrades to sound its best.

 Back on topic though, for a cheap device, one wants a box similar to the Zero's, which is light-weight to keep the price down, even if it isn't the most pretty. At the moment, all Audio-gd gear has hand-built boxes, which isn't always that great aesthetically. Kingwa mentioned he is looking into manufactured boxes for his products. Maybe we need to go for black (Lavry-style?) as silver looks like crap when it's cheap. 

 The suggestions, IMO, for mechanical rather than electronic controls is a good one. Keep these suggestions coming. The devil is in the details.

 By the way, it has crossed my mind that Kingwa needs a North American distributor. He'd need one that speaks Chinese as well as English though.


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## DaMnEd

If you want to look at possible enclosures have a look here: Hi-Fi 2000 contenitori per l'elettronica, case modding HTPC, Galaxy, rack, DIYaudio, computer cases, knobs,milled Handles, milled fronts, hi-end,

 Hifi2000 is an Italian company used by many into DIY Audio, maybe Kingwa can have a look, they have good prices and can do custom jobs, pass that info along if you think it may help Kingwa in some way.

 Prices can be seen here: http://www.modushop.biz/ecommerce/index_l2.php (Just for reference, quantity/custom/resell would obviously affect the prices.)

 BTW, regarding this:
  Quote:


 Surface-mount jacks (instead of jacks connected with wires), again for easy removal of components so they can be upgraded or replaced easily. 
 

PCB mounted jacks would be more difficult to remove than something simply connected by wires and screwed to the box, you have that one the other way around.


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## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PCB mounted jacks would be more difficult to remove than something simply connected by wires and screwed to the box, you have that one the other way around._

 

I admit I was at a loss for words here, I meant jacks as the Zero has, soldered to the boards, though preferably higher quality ones than what the Zero has. My thought was that the boards, as in the Zero, can be removed easily for whatever reason.


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## DaMnEd

Ah, now I see what you mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 You will be looking at something like these cardas PCB mount sockets:


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## ccschua

I remember kingwa once mention it is difficult, extremely difficult to bring down prices by putting up competitive gear. He is more into quality than quantity.

 However if he pursues this path, which makes business sense, I think that would be a breakthrough. 

 The design and implementation is key to most sucessful unit. More often than not, putting too many options will be difficult, especially for laymen.

 To cut the option short, I think the headphone section is better kept intact, but can be swapped out for other upgrade.

 The RCA, headphone, alps pot, phono in, bnc uses better component (and they are not expensive, really)

 Also buffer output is absolute requirement. that would increase the prices too, but at better sound.


 In the end, the price won't be USD 250 delivered, but costs USD 250 ex.

 the advocate is in the no of options to end users, how to rank them and cut them off.


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## MikeW

Looks like this is heading towards a Dac that sounds almost as good as a DAC100 and a mediocore headamp, for the same price as a Dac100. I dunno, they could easily step on each others toe's. (DAC100/Zero) I don't know why they offer the Dac100 with a OPA 627 for 245$ though. I think they should just discontinue that option, why would you limit the dac so much and take a huge hit in sound quality to save 20 bucks?

 I forget DAC100 has USB input, I guess that set's it apart. Also, no one has even heard the DAC100 so who know's how it compares to a frankenzero.


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## tumbleweed

Something like this would be perfect for me. As someone who's relatively new to high-end phones, I don't yet have a stable of high-end dedicated amps to place at my various listening stations. 

 The Zero is very attractive to me, as well as to a lot of other newbies, because it's an inexpensive platform that can serve adequately now as an all-in-one solution, and later (with upgrades) as a very solid dedicated DAC.

 However, I'm loath to launch into a game of Zero roulette, and source/solder all of the updrades suggested. Currawong's idea would be an ideal solution for me, where I am now in my way up the gear ladder.


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## Bobofthedead

Well, this would be wonderful if it all came in one smart-looking box, with USB-in for the DAC, a decent quality amp and a reasonable price tag for a first-time buyer. And please, for the love of all that is holy, can you try to make it readily available in the UK? 

 When I say smart-looking, by the way, I don't necessarily mean a beautiful lump of brushed titanium, I just mean decent-looking. None of that 'orrible bumpy dull silver plastic, or plain black-painted metal; that would be nice.

 Cheers.


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## ciphercomplete

I would skip the headamp section. The Zero's is just ok and I would have traded it for a better dac stage in a heartbeat.

 USB, Optical, and Coax inputs. Personally I could live without USB but thats just me. 

 Knobs, no buttons.

 Keep the Zero's ability to switch out opamps and discrete opamps. I'd like to see how my discrete opamps perform in a dac with better components. Also a tall enough case to accommodate discrete opamps.

 I also like the idea of dual DAC that was discussed earlier.
 OR...
 What about a dual stage output? Transistors and tubes. No switch needed just two sets of RCA outs. Maybe I am being greedy with this one.


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## AudioPhewl

What I'd like:-

 Same design philosophy as the Zero - good components, nicely implemented, at a good price for the sound quality generated.
 A proper dual-mono design - maybe a pair of PCM1794s? Though there are probably better options around these days, it's a good while since I looked into DAC ICs...
 XLR outputs as well as standard RCAs.
 Option to not have integrated headphone amplifier - it's a waste for those of us who'll never use it, even if it only adds USD10 to the overall price... though it'll likely cost more if it is built around HDAMs, with an expensive volume potentiometer to boot...
 A target price of USD300 or under without the headphone amplifier stage.

 ~Phewl.


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## Drawnbychrist

I'm new but I will throw in my 2cents anyways. I would love a different option than the Zero. I think the Amp/DAC combo is good for a beginner. This is suppose to be a competitor with the Zero, not simply a better DAC, but with better QC and Customer Service. So for all those who are trying to make a fantastic DAC and throw out the Amp, I think you are missing the point. In looking for a good budget/beginner Amp/DAC the Zero always comes up, but I don't want to order from China just to get a dead item, then what to wait weeks to get it replaced. If this happens put me on the list for one, it's just what I have been waiting for.


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## tubes

There are loads of dacs that occupy the $150.00 - $400.00 price segment but there are far fewer dac/headphone amp combos in one box in this price range. To me the smart way to go is to at least have the option and capability to add a headphone amp to the dac.

 Phill


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## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the advocate is in the no of options to end users, how to rank them and cut them off._

 

I'm waiting to see what he'll come up with, and how much he'll consider it necessary to sell for. If the price is too high, then we can look at asking questions such as, how much if X or Y was not there?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tumbleweed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Something like this would be perfect for me. As someone who's relatively new to high-end phones, I don't yet have a stable of high-end dedicated amps to place at my various listening stations. 

 The Zero is very attractive to me, as well as to a lot of other newbies, because it's an inexpensive platform that can serve adequately now as an all-in-one solution, and later (with upgrades) as a very solid dedicated DAC.

 However, I'm loath to launch into a game of Zero roulette, and source/solder all of the updrades suggested. Currawong's idea would be an ideal solution for me, where I am now in my way up the gear ladder._

 

You are exactly the kind of person this is aimed at. Also, down the track, if you buy a new HP amp, you'll have a good DAC to use it with.

 ciphercomplete and AudioPhewl: Kingwa already makes DACs that suit your needs, or can customise one of his products to suit your needs I'm sure.


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## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ciphercomplete and AudioPhewl: Kingwa already makes DACs that suit your needs, or can customise one of his products to suit your needs I'm sure._

 







 Who is this Kingwa and how can I get my hands on one of his DACs?


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## apatN

Currawong are you trying to set a little business here? If so that is probably more important. You see, I don't have faith in the Chinese makers regarding warranty etc. Their products might be good but I ain't getting something from some Chinese without decent customer service.

 What I'd like to see fully knowing it's not a Zero replacement: A nice DAC without the thrills. 110-230 volt switch. And do you think balanced out is feasible?


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## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Who is this Kingwa and how can I get my hands on one of his DACs?_

 

Go here: http://audio-gd.com

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *apatN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currawong are you trying to set a little business here? If so that is probably more important. You see, I don't have faith in the Chinese makers regarding warranty etc. Their products might be good but I ain't getting something from some Chinese without decent customer service.

 What I'd like to see fully knowing it's not a Zero replacement: A nice DAC without the thrills. 110-230 volt switch. And do you think balanced out is feasible?_

 

It's as simple as: I'm tired of recommending the Zero, because of the same concerns you have buying from Chinese makers. Kingwa, the owner (?) of Audio-gd (the actual name is Reiz Audio) is only interested in quality, as far as I can see, so I'd rather he gets people's business, if it means people get good gear and good customer service.

 As for balanced output, his other DACs have balanced out, but other the DAC100 which doesn't, they start at about $430 or something like that. In a cheap DAC, there's no need, IMO, for balanced output and not necessarily any benefit.


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## apatN

Well I'm intrigued by the whole balanced thing so I might get a cheap balanced DAC now when I'm in the market for a DAC. Maybe the DacMagic is a better choice.

 I'll check the DACs out but they'll have a hard time convincing me to get one. I've really had it with those Chinese.


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## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *apatN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I'm intrigued by the whole balanced thing so I might get a cheap balanced DAC now when I'm in the market for a DAC. Maybe the DacMagic is a better choice.

 I'll check the DACs out but they'll have a hard time convincing me to get one. I've really had it with those Chinese. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm part of a group that has a lot of Vietnamese and Chinese and I've worked with a warehouse staffed mainly by people from India. I've seen it all. I also had to help organise a conference of sorts with 20,000 people in Thailand. Let me say, after the latter, the odd bad solder joint in a Chinese amp or DAC is nothing compared to what I've seen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I feel nothing bad towards any of them by the way, though they are all crazy in different ways.)

 As for balanced connections, it only gets interesting with balanced headphones. I doubt there'd be any useful benefit unless you're buying gear that's well into 4 figures. The friend of mine who knows hi-fi and music inside-out reckons there's no benefit. The well-respected hi-fi store he's a manager of, in their 30 years, I've never seen any of their high-end systems use balanced connections between components.

 Ok, back to the important stuff, the latest details from Kingwa of Audio-gd:

 Input choices will be:
 USB
 COAX
 OPT
 RCA input for the headphone amp (bypassing the DAC).
 The on/off switch will allow choosing just the DAC or the DAC+headphone amp.

 The price will still be around US$250, though hopefully a bit lower. This is with no profit! He's going to have to make it well as he'll make a complete loss if anything is faulty.


----------



## oldschool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, back to the important stuff, the latest details from Kingwa of Audio-gd:

 Input choices will be:
 USB
 COAX
 OPT
 RCA input for the headphone amp (bypassing the DAC).
 The on/off switch will allow choosing just the DAC or the DAC+headphone amp.

 The price will still be around US$250, though hopefully a bit lower. This is with no profit! He's going to have to make it well as he'll make a complete loss if anything is faulty._


----------



## ccschua

To summarise, the budget dac will fit the diy dream and to satisfy first timer with simple setup, no fats and expensive stuff but pure good sound.


----------



## apatN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm part of a group that has a lot of Vietnamese and Chinese and I've worked with a warehouse staffed mainly by people from India. I've seen it all. I also had to help organise a conference of sorts with 20,000 people in Thailand. Let me say, after the latter, the odd bad solder joint in a Chinese amp or DAC is nothing compared to what I've seen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I feel nothing bad towards any of them by the way, though they are all crazy in different ways.)

 As for balanced connections, it only gets interesting with balanced headphones. I doubt there'd be any useful benefit unless you're buying gear that's well into 4 figures. The friend of mine who knows hi-fi and music inside-out reckons there's no benefit. The well-respected hi-fi store he's a manager of, in their 30 years, I've never seen any of their high-end systems use balanced connections between components._

 

Haha I can figure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That balanced is a good thing as I'd only use it for headphones.


----------



## Drawnbychrist

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, back to the important stuff, the latest details from Kingwa of Audio-gd:

 Input choices will be:
 USB
 COAX
 OPT
 RCA input for the headphone amp (bypassing the DAC).
 The on/off switch will allow choosing just the DAC or the DAC+headphone amp.

 The price will still be around US$250, though hopefully a bit lower. This is with no profit! He's going to have to make it well as he'll make a complete loss if anything is faulty._

 

OPT meaning optical, correct? 
 How soon can we expect for this to be available for purchase? 
 This will be my first DAC/Amp for my computer, which is awesome because I was really wanting something better than the Zero in terms of quality and reliability.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *apatN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha I can figure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That balanced is a good thing as I'd only use it for headphones._

 

You'll be happy to know one of his future projects is a balanced headphone amp. He has a higher-end HP amp, but he hasn't put up the web pages for it. It's not balanced though. He'll build a balanced amp if you ask, using two C2Cs in a larger box.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drawnbychrist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OPT meaning optical, correct? 
 How soon can we expect for this to be available for purchase? 
 This will be my first DAC/Amp for my computer, which is awesome because I was really wanting something better than the Zero in terms of quality and reliability. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, OPT = Optical. He said 2 months when he first mentioned it. The boards have been designed, so I imagine that his next task is working on the components to get the best sound etc. He's also purchased Grado SR60s, AKG K701s and Denon D2000s for testing (he already has Senn HD650s), since they are popular cans, and cover most sound signatures.

 The basic model, will be opamp-based, using the usual BB OPA2134. I hope he uses a box tall enough for a HDAM to stand in it without the need of wires, now I think of it.


----------



## shotmaker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You'll be happy to know one of his future projects is a balanced headphone amp. He has a higher-end HP amp, but he hasn't put up the web pages for it. It's not balanced though. He'll build a balanced amp if you ask, using two C2Cs in a larger box._

 

That's pretty good news ! Do you think there is place for hope that he starts building an amp that combines single-ended and balanced outputs, a bit like the Rudistor NX-33 ?
 Does his higher-end HP amp looks like the C-2D that appears in this webpage?


----------



## Hottuna_

I reckon HDAMs with 90 degree angled leads may be a better solution.
 They stand pretty tall straight up and may make the enclosure larger for no other reason than to accomodate them.


----------



## godluvsxs

IMHO Kingwa should cut off OPT input option to make the DAC more affordable, OPT and COAX is just too similiar, since it's kinda targetting budget market, I bet most of time guys are going to pair it with normal DVD player as transport while most of these entry level DVD player does only comes with coaxial output 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 USB for pc based desktop setup while coaxial for normal transport + DAC setup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Money saved on skipping the OPT implementation would brings the price lower or further enhance the performance of other critical stage (i.e better power supply stage or output stage which two of areas Kingwa cares about) Hope that my opinion does help to bring us a better DAC with perhaps cheaper price


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *godluvsxs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMHO Kingwa should cut off OPT input option to make the DAC more affordable, OPT and COAX is just too similiar, since it's kinda targetting budget market, I bet most of time guys are going to pair it with normal DVD player as transport while most of these entry level DVD player does only comes with coaxial output 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 USB for pc based desktop setup while coaxial for normal transport + DAC setup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Money saved on skipping the OPT implementation would brings the price lower or further enhance the performance of other critical stage (i.e better power supply stage or output stage which two of areas Kingwa cares about) Hope that my opinion does help to bring us a better DAC with perhaps cheaper price _

 

There are good reasons the optical connection is included: It probably costs next to nothing extra to include; Macs and quite a few other devices have optical out built in; good quality optical cables are cheap; and some people have solved ground-loop hum issues by using it instead of coax.

 By the way, I did think about right-angled connectors on the HDAMs, but angled in which direction? I wish some existed that were suitable. If you think about it, whatever you try and change on an HDAM, it then becomes an issue in one or another device as a change in shape or angle prevents it sitting nicely in some other device.


----------



## godluvsxs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are good reasons the optical connection is included: It probably costs next to nothing extra to include; Macs and quite a few other devices have optical out built in; good quality optical cables are cheap; and some people have solved ground-loop hum issues by using it instead of coax.

 By the way, I did think about right-angled connectors on the HDAMs, but angled in which direction? I wish some existed that were suitable. If you think about it, whatever you try and change on an HDAM, it then becomes an issue in one or another device as a change in shape or angle prevents it sitting nicely in some other device._

 

Emm ... seems like the optical in should be there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually i think it's preferable to have it stand 90 degress without any connectors and wire, visually it's neat and eye catching 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope that Kingwa can source a suitable casing which able to contain


----------



## Hottuna_

Any updates on the design?
 I sure hope this project didn't fall by the wayside.


----------



## haloxt

What do you need to make this have all the functions of a computer sound card?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It's coming along...these things take time.....most likely we are looking at Mar 09 at the earliest unless Kingwa is a miracle worker. This isn't his only project you know.....

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

First pictures and details. *Merry Christmas*.


----------



## viscosity

sweet... Kingwa really takes care of his customers


----------



## viscosity

also sorry for OT but has anyone here experienced the DAC-100? I own a zero atm but the amp stage is useless to me now that I have a darkvoice 336i. how does this dac compare to the Zero assuming they are both fitted with descrete opamps?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_also sorry for OT but has anyone here experienced the DAC-100? I own a zero atm but the amp stage is useless to me now that I have a darkvoice 336i. how does this dac compare to the Zero assuming they are both fitted with descrete opamps?_

 

Penchum has one....PM him and ask what he thinks of it compared to his FrankenZERO.

 Peete.

 PS Currawong you beat me to it with the latest news...the Compass certainly looks like it will kick some serious butt. Merry Christmas indeed !!!!!


----------



## sandchak

This compass will show the way!! it seems..

 First 10 Test Compass will be full aluminum chassis for reviews.. Boys, grab it before it goes.. I have..

 Edit. just got confirmation its all going to be full aluminum chassis - not just the first 10.. better still..


----------



## BigTony

Looks like a nice job by audio-gd, I've really liked talking with Kingwa - I think his thinking and design ethos.

 So much so that I've ordered the DAC-3SE, with twin RCA outputs to feed my headamp and main amp seperatly (nice to get the builder to modify the unit before it leaves the shop). Its currently being tested and will be shipped on Monday, so it be here after xmass, in the lull before new year, so I'll burn it in and write a review.

 I've found a friend that uses his PC as his source, so I'm shipping him my Zero, as the noise want be such a factor.

 One thought about the Compass, with only a 50W transformer, I assume that will only power one HDAM?


----------



## malldian

edit


----------



## hdlovar

May have to put my order for the Zero on hold for this bad boy...


----------



## Hottuna_

Certainly looks like an awesome piece of kit.
 Fully discrete headphone amp component aswell.
 Highly likely that I will get one once it is released.


----------



## smuh

I am not sure if I have ever seen any vendor reacting this fast. I know there are a lot of good guys in the head-fi business, but at least putting together something "new" from more or less "our specs" was lightning fast IMO.
 Hope the casework and quality will be the same, but I don't dubt this at this moment.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smuh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not sure if I have ever seen any vendor reacting this fast. I know there are a lot of good guys in the head-fi business, but at least putting together something "new" from more or less "our specs" was lightning fast IMO._

 

It's probably about time a vendor really listened to what the buyers wanted to buy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 its a win-win situation, proven by the E3 (which has given rise to the E5) and Kingwa's HDAMs. I'm sure he's eager to get this out ASAP and we're equally eager to know how it sounds

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Knobs, no buttons._

 

Agreed here for volume but for changing functions (e.g. bypassing the HP amp if possible) I still think buttons are better. I realised this when dealing with my SVDAC05's digital volume adjustment - a nice fat knob like on the Zero is much better


----------



## Currawong

I think that Kingwa pretty much has most of the basic concepts down pat, based on a modular system, such as the buffers and other circuits, so all he has to do is take the basic components he's already perfected and merge them into the device we desire.


----------



## decayed.cell

No offence to him and I know this doesn't affect the quality of the product but he also needs to fix up the engrish on the Compass page


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed here for volume but for changing functions (e.g. bypassing the HP amp if possible) I still think buttons are better._

 

The idea is that with the knob/switch, you can keep it at your preferred setting without having to select it them every time you turn on the DAC/amp, with the ZERO and it's buttons if you don't use the default setting (DAC only + optical), you have to press buttons every time...(resets to default on shut-down) like activating the Head-Amp/pre-amp, switching to coax input... switch is better for this reason.

 It is possible to implement memory "in the buttons" (and auto-detect for the input used, if only one is used at the time) but that would just add unnecessary complications and cost.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No offence to him and I know this doesn't affect the quality of the product but he also needs to fix up the engrish on the Compass page 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Have never heard of 'engrish'. Can you tell me where I may learn it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl


----------



## les_garten

Hello,
 Just found this thread from the Zero thread. Tons of pages and it doesn't even exist yet! Volume Knob instead of buttons, yes. Keep the Head amp, yes.

 Is the estimated $250 a delivered price or is shipping on top of this?


----------



## DaMnEd

I *think *it is for the unit only.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,
 Just found this thread from the Zero thread. Tons of pages and it doesn't even exist yet! Volume Knob instead of buttons, yes. Keep the Head amp, yes.

 Is the estimated $250 a delivered price or is shipping on top of this?_

 

Shipping extra.. confirmed.


----------



## sandchak

heres how the faceplate would look like...






 I think I really like the rotary knob for selector unlike the buttons in Zero, looks more classic..


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The idea is that with the knob/switch, you can keep it at your preferred setting without having to select it them every time you turn on the DAC/amp, with the ZERO and it's buttons if you don't use the default setting (DAC only + optical), you have to press buttons every time...(resets to default on shut-down) like activating the Head-Amp/pre-amp, switching to coax input... switch is better for this reason.

 It is possible to implement memory "in the buttons" (and auto-detect for the input used, if only one is used at the time) but that would just add unnecessary complications and cost._

 

Oh you mean like a knob that has stepped increments at different "o'clocks" yeah okay that's a good idea. I was going to mention the memory function on the SVDAC05 which costs the same as a Zero but I guess a knob like that could cut costs


----------



## DaMnEd

Yep, just like the one you can see in the _Stello DA100_






.


----------



## decayed.cell

Jesus he's got new pictures of the front and back already with the selector knob we talked about. That is quick


----------



## Hottuna_

He sure is working fast.
 Not that I am complaining.
 Itching to get my hands on one when it is ready to rock.


----------



## Bobofthedead

If they have these ready and shipping to the UK by the time I go to Uni, we'll be golden.


----------



## bearmann

Hi everyone,
 just noticed this interesting project... looks very tempting! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If I'm right, audio gd has finished the first prototype pcbs (schematics and pcbs are looking more than fine) and I'm curious about one thing...

 How much gain will the headamp have? It'd be unfortunate, if you can't use it with efficient headphone like ATs or similar.

 Nevertheless it looks neat! If it's <=250 USD and is "dead silent" it'll become a true 'no brainer'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 best regards,
 bearmann


----------



## punk_guy182

Will this DAC take 24/96 USB input?
 I see that it has a PCM2707 chipset.


----------



## sandchak

Well, there seems to be some updates, additional circuit diagrams.. for those interested..


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will this DAC take 24/96 USB input?
 I see that it has a PCM2707 chipset._

 

You have answered yourself, the PCM2707 *cannot go above 16/48!!!*

 Just look at the specs.: Audio Converters and CODECs - Digital to Analog (DACs) - PCM2707 - TI.com


----------



## csroc

Well I'm very interested in this project too. Looks great, I'm curious to see how it winds up, what the final product looks like and how much it would cost me to get one. I could use a stationary/desktop unit with a USB DAC and competent headphone amp (need to read up on the output a bit more).


----------



## haloxt

Would it cost a lot to have USB 2.0 instead of 1.1? I'm not sure if it's better, just heard random opinions that it might be superior in jitter/latency. Also, how hard would it be to get ASIO to work on this if we were to use it for the computer? Anyone want to write drivers for us heh heh.


----------



## Hottuna_

Correct me if i'm wrong but the PCM2707 in this build is only used as a USB to I2S converter of sorts which is then fed to the AD1852.
 All D/A conversion is managed by the AD1852.

 And the PCM2707 is recognised by windows (and osx?) without the need of extra drivers.


----------



## Currawong

Hmm, how critical is 24/96 support? I'll ask Kingwa about it.


----------



## csroc

Personally, not hugely. But I suspect many others will want it. I'm more interested that the headphone amp has sufficient juice and voltage to drive all sorts of headphones.


----------



## xxbaker

since this is targeted for more beginners, 24/96 support probably isn't a big priority (unless it doesn't add much to the cost). If it adds a significant amount to the cost it's probably better to leave it out.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xxbaker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_since this is targeted for more beginners, 24/96 support probably isn't a big priority (unless it doesn't add much to the cost). If it adds a significant amount to the cost it's probably better to leave it out._

 

I'm no expert in electronics but doesn't that just come down to the DAC chip selected?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hottuna_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Correct me if i'm wrong but the PCM2707 in this build is only used as a USB to I2S converter of sorts which is then fed to the AD1852.
 All D/A conversion is managed by the AD1852.

 And the PCM2707 is recognised by windows (and osx?) without the need of extra drivers._

 

Agreed I think the PCM2707 is there purely to provide USB input. Maybe it would be cheaper to not have it but as an optional addon in the form of a breakout box?

 EDIT: Also um imo the lineout/bypass 3.5mm jack should be at the back of the unit for aesthetics


----------



## bearmann

PCM2707 as USB-Receiver is fine... There are lots of people how don't think that you can here a difference between 24 Bit and dithered 16 Bit. So I don't think that there is a need to switch to an USB receiver which is capable of 24/96.

 In my opinion it is more important that the headphone amp has absolutely no noise and not to much gain! It'd be best if you could change the gain but I doubt that this'll be possible because of SS.

 best regards,
 bearmann


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Personally, not hugely. But I suspect many others will want it. I'm more interested that the headphone amp has sufficient juice and voltage to drive all sorts of headphones._

 

Absolutely. The list I gave Kingwa, who already has HD650s is: AKG K701, Grado SR60 and Denon D2000. That covers, respectively: ultra-analytical and a pain to drive well, excessively bright and very bassy headphones, if that makes any sense, not to mention that they are popular models.


----------



## csroc

That sounds great then


----------



## ccschua

When I look at the diode used at the DAC 100, I say wow, that is huge sausage. It was MUR by motorola.

 components used is the key to good sound. 

 bet the compass will give u the soundstage and the ease to drive those tough nuts headphone.


----------



## RedSky0

Are there really that many that don't have an SPDIF input? It seems to be just about every new mobo and many older ones out there supports it.

 EDIT - My bad meant output not input.


----------



## bearmann

S/PDIF IN isn't common, right. But I don't know why this could be of any importance for a DAC/Amp ?!


----------



## moodyrn

Right. S/PDIF in isn't common, but a lot of newer boards do have S/PDIF out. Anyway the digital output on a lot of boards are noisy, and some are not even bit perfect. That's why a lot of people purchase sound cards just to have a clean digital output. My motherboard have a digital out, and it sounds like crap. So implementing usb on a dac is important to a lot of people.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Will this thing sound better than the Zero? I keep reading about the chips that are going to be used but that really doesn't tell me anything. Does it use the same chip as the Zero?


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will this thing sound better than the Zero? I keep reading about the chips that are going to be used but that really doesn't tell me anything. Does it use the same chip as the Zero?

 Also, will it use opamps or is it discrete from the jump?_

 

Same DAC chip: AD1852

 From the pictures the DAC seems to use opamps (HDAM capable as such), and the amp board does seem discrete, no opamps to be seen, I'll let someone confirm this.


----------



## bearmann

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right. S/PDIF in isn't common, but a lot of newer boards do have S/PDIF out. Anyway the digital output on a lot of boards are noisy, and some are not even bit perfect. That's why a lot of people purchase sound cards just to have a clean digital output. My motherboard have a digital out, and it sounds like crap. So implementing usb on a dac is important to a lot of people._

 

Ummm... I think we're talking at cross-purposes?! I was never against usb/spdif/optical input in the DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Personally I would prefer USB because every notebook user will appreciate it. (Except for Apple there are practically no notebooks with spdif-out)


----------



## broodwich

I would like to see 24/96 support if not 24/192 like the zero. Full 24 bit support would give users the option to decode all digital audio formats without compromise. I would like to be able to decode both DVD-Audio and SACD using my Oppo or my PS3 as a source. So in that regard the Toslink and Coax digital inputs are welcome. 24 bit audio can also be downloaded from sites like HDTracks (24/96) and Linn Records (up to 24/192). Even if you can't tell the difference it would be great to have the option for full 24 bit support.

 I also appreciate the inclusion of the USB input on this future device. I use a MacBook Pro which does feature an optical audio output. The specs claim support for 24/192 over the optical output but nobody has been able to set anything higher than 24/96. By having a 24 bit DAC on this device and the USB connection it should allow for 24/192 output from my MacBook Pro or just about any computer with a USB port.

 Please consider supporting 24/192 with this device.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *broodwich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to see 24/96 support if not 24/192 like the zero. Full 24 bit support would give users the option to decode all digital audio formats without compromise. I would like to be able to decode both DVD-Audio and SACD using my Oppo or my PS3 as a source. So in that regard the Toslink and Coax digital inputs are welcome. 24 bit audio can also be downloaded from sites like HDTracks (24/96) and Linn Records (up to 24/192). Even if you can't tell the difference it would be great to have the option for full 24 bit support.

 I also appreciate the inclusion of the USB input on this future device. I use a MacBook Pro which does feature an optical audio output. The specs claim support for 24/192 over the optical output but nobody has been able to set anything higher than 24/96. By having a 24 bit DAC on this device and the USB connection it should allow for 24/192 output from my MacBook Pro or just about any computer with a USB port.

 Please consider supporting 24/192 with this device._

 

*No USB chip "on the market" is able to do 24/192*, the ones that do support 24/96-192 are proprietary afaik.. That is why you see this limit (16/48) on almost all USB input DACs, limited chip options on the market really, and Audio-GD is a small company, the resources to develop such chips are tremendous.

 I'm hoping that TI comes with a USB chip for 24/96 one day, this will grantee broad use, but this is not a reality atm, so the 16/48 limit on the USB input is an understandable one, and the chip used is very good.

 You will have to use coax / toslink for 24/96.


----------



## bearmann

@ broodwich: They are using a TI DIR9001 as S/PDIF receiver. So through coax and toslink the unit is capable of receiving up to 24/96. Only usb is limited to 16/48 due to the PCM270x.

 best regards,
 bearmann


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *broodwich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to see 24/96 support if not 24/192 like the zero. Full 24 bit support would give users the option to decode all digital audio formats without compromise. I would like to be able to decode both DVD-Audio and SACD using my Oppo or my PS3 as a source. So in that regard the Toslink and Coax digital inputs are welcome. 24 bit audio can also be downloaded from sites like HDTracks (24/96) and Linn Records (up to 24/192). Even if you can't tell the difference it would be great to have the option for full 24 bit support.

 I also appreciate the inclusion of the USB input on this future device. I use a MacBook Pro which does feature an optical audio output. The specs claim support for 24/192 over the optical output but nobody has been able to set anything higher than 24/96. By having a 24 bit DAC on this device and the USB connection it should allow for 24/192 output from my MacBook Pro or just about any computer with a USB port.

 Please consider supporting 24/192 with this device._

 

The Oppo will not send any SACD/DVD-A data stream via it's digital outs...so that functionality is moot unless you rip the discs to your HDD. There are no tools for ripping SACD's that I know...and the DVD-A ripping tools only work for 2 channel MLP (the 5.1 merge function does not work).

 In any event...if you use bit perfect playback the vast majority of files are 16/44.1 of which the Compass can easily handle using any of the digital inputs. Upsampling unless done correctly in hardware is a waste of CPU cycles IMHO. I find bit perfect to be far superior to the odd sheen software upsampling gives 16/44.1 CDA/FLAC/APE etc files.

 IMO the Compass as is, is a remarkable bargain provided it delivers the SQ goods. Until the unit can be long term tested the jury is out on it's SQ although I do expect it to surpass the Zero because of the superior nature of the units power supply (the key to any design IMHO).

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will this thing sound better than the Zero? I keep reading about the chips that are going to be used but that really doesn't tell me anything. Does it use the same chip as the Zero?_

 

That's the whole idea, that the overall quality, from design to sound, is far better. Not to mention customer service. You'll be purchasing directly from the maker.

 I just confirmed with Kingwa though, optical and coax will be 24/96 and USB will be 16/48 (or 16/44.1).


----------



## Hottuna_

24/96 is good enough for me.
 I would probably use 44.1/16 bitperfect through coax/optical anyway.

 Looks like Kingwa is still tweaking the circuitry for added performance/versatility.
 Tweaking the circuitry for bypass mode and adding user selectable sound signature via jumpers.

 I'm liking this more and more really.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Currawong I don't think the claim of better SQ than the zero can be proclaimed until the unit in question has actually been heard by a number of us.....the design and execution of it is clearly a step up from the Zero (then again it's about 25%- 30% more in price so I expect that improvement from the get go), that much is certain...let's wait to hear this unit first before claiming SQ superiority over the HDAM equipped stock Zero.

 What I'm really looking forward to is pitting the Compass against the FrankenZERO. 

 That will be a fun comparison I think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Actually I was thinking on the same grounds too, but then one should not only consider the cost of the parts required for Franken Zero, but also the labor cost to upgrade, because not everyone in the forum/user has the expertise of Peete (DIY), and I am sure if one considers the labor cost in their respective Country, I am sure the Franken Zero will overshoot the Compass Price. Unless offcourse, someone in China starts rolling out Frankens..


----------



## broodwich

Thanks everyone for the tutorials on 24bit, DVD-A, and SACD. I'm a noob, which I just made all the more evident. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I suspected 24/192 might not fly over USB. I guess that's restricted to Firewire DACs.

 I don't think there is any way to rip a SACD either and I don't plan on bothering to try to rip any DVD-As. I'll probably just download a few tracks or albums here and there from HDTracks. The rest will be ripped to a lossless format from my CD collection at 16/44. I don't see any point in upsampling this content.

 So with Kingwa's confirmation that 24/96 is only supported over Optical/Coax on the Compass, the highest output option from from Macbook Pro is the optical out for 24/96 content. For content encoded at 16/44 would it make any difference if I used the USB connection or the Optical? Is one better than the other?

 Regardless I still appreciate the inclusion of the USB connection. More flexibility and more options are welcome.

 Sorry for derailing this thread with my ignorance. Thanks for your input.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currawong I don't think the claim of better SQ than the zero can be proclaimed until the unit in question has actually been heard by a number of us....._

 

Of course not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just said that it was the idea of the unit. I started this whole thing though so that, I hoped, there would be something worth recommending to people getting started in head-fi, more so than the Zero.


----------



## sandchak

I think it is very fair to "assume" that Compass is far ahead in terms of :

 1) Component quality
 2) Design and layout
 3) and most of all from the manufacturer who has an excellent track record of producing quality equipments.

 I mean it is the "upgradation of components" of Zero which takes it into a different level, plus that extra satisfaction of achieving adds to the sound quality (psychological).

 It is true that Zero may be a DIYs dream, but then that at the most serves maybe only 10% of the community..

 Ultimately I am very keen myself to hear the difference between Franken and Zero.. although I hope this done by a neutral person...


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *broodwich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks everyone for the tutorials on 24bit, DVD-A, and SACD. I'm a noob, which I just made all the more evident. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I suspected 24/192 might not fly over USB. I guess that's restricted to Firewire DACs.

 I don't think there is any way to rip a SACD either and I don't plan on bothering to try to rip any DVD-As. I'll probably just download a few tracks or albums here and there from HDTracks. The rest will be ripped to a lossless format from my CD collection at 16/44. I don't see any point in upsampling this content.

 So with Kingwa's confirmation that 24/96 is only supported over Optical/Coax on the Compass, the highest output option from from Macbook Pro is the optical out for 24/96 content. For content encoded at 16/44 would it make any difference if I used the USB connection or the Optical? Is one better than the other?

 Regardless I still appreciate the inclusion of the USB connection. More flexibility and more options are welcome.

 Sorry for derailing this thread with my ignorance. Thanks for your input._

 

I suggest the optical, with a proper mini-optical to Toslink cable, as it's silent. I don't think the $2 adapters are much good. I'd try both yourself though. That being said, I haven't tried USB yet with my MacBook Pro.

 I had a look on Linn Records. There are only 4 24/192 albums and I doubt you'd notice a difference between 24/96 and 24/192 without some seriously expensive gear.

 I set my MacBook Pro to output 24/96, as this is the highest resolution of file I have. Core Audio in Mac OS X upsamples most of my music as a result. After a lot of A/B'ing, I can't discern any difference significant enough for me to split hairs over upsampling vs. not. It's more worth it for me just being able to start up iTunes and play music.


----------



## broodwich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a look on Linn Records. There are only 4 24/192 albums and I doubt you'd notice a difference between 24/96 and 24/192 without some seriously expensive gear._

 

Agreed.


----------



## bearmann

@ Currawong:
 Are there any news regarding the release date of the Compass?
 And could you ask him how much gain the final headamp section will have?!

 Thanks.

 best regards,
 bearmann


----------



## sandchak

heres the info you require :

 1) how much gain the final headphone amp section will have? ---- 17.5DB

 2) the release date of the Compass? --- after around 30 days, first 18 units will be for customers test and feedbacks/recommendations.


 Hope this helps.


----------



## bearmann

Thank you, sandchak! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) how much gain the final headphone amp section will have? ---- 17.5DB_

 

Well... I'm out, I think. This is way to much for my AT W100. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 best regards,
 bearmann


----------



## sandchak

Actually Kingwa is also planning as a final upgrade, to use jumper for headphone gain control between 15 - 20 DB, to suit headphone needs, for example D2000 has 108DB,15DB gain is fine, but HD650 is low, it might need 20DB for better results..


----------



## broodwich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bearmann* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well... I'm out, I think. This is way to much for my AT W100. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is that because the ATH-W100 have a higher sensitivity, because they have a lower impedance or both?

 Wouldn't any cans sound better through a quality source & amp than say off the headphone jack on your laptop?

 How efficient are the W100s, about 100dB?


----------



## crumplertm

Hi, this is my first post in head fi, but I have been an avid reader and fan of head fi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The compass dac is available for orders now, may I know if this is a worth while upgrade from a zero dac? 

 I am torn between getting this to replace my zero dac (with moon opa) and a headphone amp (LDMKIII). 

 Please advice, I am using a beyer dt880 '05 250 ohm most of the time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!


----------



## csroc

Quote:


 The first accelerate price is USD250 without shipping charge, with one separate OPA (customers can choice MOON or EARTH , because Compass sound will "Neutral", so SUN maybe not a good choice ), and one power cable, one USB cable, one optical cable. The shipping charge had different price for different country. The Compass pack weight around 4KG. 
 

I have no idea what the Moon and Earth part mean but in either case it sounds like an exciting product offering a lot for a reasonable price. I may just order one as soon as they're available 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was wondering, does the final design (or at least current design) have a discrete amp?


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...I have no idea what the Moon and Earth part mean..._

 

Audio-GD Discrete OPAs


----------



## blue_lammer

The answer to your question can be found on the first post on the first page. 

 Tthe "sun and moon part" are HDAMS which are discrete transistors meant as an upgrade to replace opamps found in most audio devices.


----------



## csroc

ah-ha. Whoops. Thanks guys


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crumplertm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, this is my first post in head fi, but I have been an avid reader and fan of head fi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The compass dac is available for orders now, may I know if this is a worth while upgrade from a zero dac? 

 I am torn between getting this to replace my zero dac (with moon opa) and a headphone amp (LDMKIII). 

 Please advice, I am using a beyer dt880 '05 250 ohm most of the time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!_

 


 I don't think the compass will hit the market before a month, by the looks and what I can gather of compass as of now, it looks like a good upgrade to Zero.
 But then, if I was you, I would wait for a while before further upgrading the Zero, till hands on review of the Compass start to come in..


----------



## bearmann

Thank God! 

  Quote:


 With the help of two jumpers ( don't need any other tool, and will only take around 30 seconds ), users can choice the headphone amp gain at 14DB or 20DB, to suit different sensivity and impedance headphone, [...] 
 

14db is still more than I'll need but it's acceptable. I think I'll definitely get one of those! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hooray!... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 @ broodwich: I don't know how sensitive the W100 is, but I would guess >=104db and 48Ohm. I'm fine with a voltage gain between 2 and 4, thats around 6 to 12db. But, as I wrote above, 14db will be fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What do you guys think about the "parallel connection volume control" as upgrade option? Any thoughts?

 best regards,
 bearmann


----------



## Currawong

I only just read the updates to the compass page. I think Kingwa has far exceeded what I imagined he'd come up with for this. Sound tuning and gain options, not to mention the discreet and separately usable headphone amp should make this an exceptionally versatile unit.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I only just read the updates to the compass page. I think Kingwa has far exceeded what I imagined he'd come up with for this. Sound tuning and gain options, not to mention the discreet and separately usable headphone amp should make this an exceptionally versatile unit._

 

Absolutely Curra, the more I read the more I am amazed at what Kingwa is doing - maybe he is a man with a mission !!


----------



## nowickia

I really wasn't in the market for spending this much on an amp (I'm only beginning) but I don't think I can pass this up. Looks like it'll be a great product!


----------



## RAQemUP

Just read this thread and this is exactly what I have been looking for actually. Just debating whether to bite the bullet and be one of the first buyers or wait for reviews.


----------



## crumplertm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think the compass will hit the market before a month, by the looks and what I can gather of compass as of now, it looks like a good upgrade to Zero.
 But then, if I was you, I would wait for a while before further upgrading the Zero, till hands on review of the Compass start to come in.._

 

Gee thanks for your advice, I quess I was overly excited to wait for the 1st batch to launch for reviews. Kingwa is really doing a great job tuning the system with his cans. Sadly dt880 wasn't one of the cans he used.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RAQemUP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just read this thread and this is exactly what I have been looking for actually. Just debating whether to bite the bullet and be one of the first buyers or wait for reviews._

 

Either way, I don't think you will regret - this is my absolute and very strong feeling, and it derives from pure logic.. and of course this isn't only talking because my money is already on it !!!


----------



## haloxt

I'm going to get one because of all the rave reviews I've read on forums about audio-gd gear. Anyone interested in splitting shipping costs? Hey, I live in the same state as sandchak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol.

 edit: it just occurred to me, do you think it would be possible for Kingwa to send a big package with smaller packages inside to the post office and have them open it and mail them domestically? I'm not sure what kind of postage he'll need to send a big package to the USA and then using domestic postage to mail smaller packages, but maybe it is cheaper than sending multiple international small packages? Just an idea, I'm not that keen on paying lots of money on international postage lol.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm going to get one because of all the rave reviews I've read on forums about audio-gd gear. Anyone interested in splitting shipping costs? Hey, I live in the same state as sandchak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol._

 

Hang on haloxt.. I am from the country Georgia.. but its a great idea to get shipping split in your case, since you are from the US, and I am sure plenty from there would be getting the Compass..


----------



## K3cT

Why this news must come after I've purchased the Zero?


----------



## sandchak

One more good news, Zero still and I repeat "still" has a good resale value....


----------



## K3cT

Indeed but it will be too difficult to ship it worldwide from my region (Asia). There's also the fact that no one here has heard the Compass yet. Lastly, I think my upgraded Zero with a dedicated phone amp will surpass the Compass.


----------



## glitch39

*ONE huge box to the US shipped to one reputable member. then cross shipped to other members here. let's huddle in groups of five, so the commercial quantity tax does not kick in. Do it with other members you have dealt with or those with good feedback. we all save shipping that way. Same procedure applies for other countries.

 Thoughts?*


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*ONE huge box to the US shipped to one reputable member. then cross shipped to other members here. let's huddle in groups of five, so the commercial quantity tax does not kick in. Do it with other members you have dealt with or those with good feedback. we all save shipping that way. Same procedure applies for other countries.

 Thoughts?*_

 

The shipping cost for just opamps is $21 from Hong Kong to the USA, so there can be people interested in other things besides the compass who could do the cross-shipping.


----------



## csroc

I am curious what the shipping cost to the USA would be for the Compass. Hopefully they can get shipping estimates figured out.


----------



## mlhm5

Quality components (no more recapping or Franken..., excellent QC, NOS, customer service equal to Little Dot.

 Come to think of it, if Little Dot made a DAC, I would buy it.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Component-wise and sound-wise how would this thing compare to the DAC 100 that kingwa sells? They are roughly the same price but the DAC-100 doesn't have a headphone out obviously.


----------



## Currawong

There's no point in trying to get shipping cheaper, as the price includes shipping and isn't making a profit for him. That is, he's trying to get it out the door as cheap as possible initially. Also, even if there was a benefit to bulk shipping (which I doubt would be significant) it would be negated immediately by having to re-ship each unit.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crumplertm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gee thanks for your advice, I quess I was overly excited to wait for the 1st batch to launch for reviews. Kingwa is really doing a great job tuning the system with his cans. Sadly dt880 wasn't one of the cans he used._

 

I personally don't think adding DT880s to the list would add anything to the list I suggested. There are also so many variations of Beyer models that you can't nail down anything with one pair. As it is, I've suggested popular and finicky models.


----------



## GUINNE55

Realistically, is this going to be good value?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Component-wise and sound-wise how would this thing compare to the DAC 100 that kingwa sells? They are roughly the same price but the DAC-100 doesn't have a headphone out obviously._

 

[

 I put the same question across to him, as I was keen on the DAC100.
 What he said was that the DAC section of the Compass will be nearly the same as the DAC100, and would be using the same high grade components.
 You have to also keep in mind that the Compass is actually a NO PROFIT product, and maybe he is also taking in some loss for the initial promotional pricing of USD250..
 So if you ask me, it is practically the same in the DAC area and much more than that in the Compass..


  Quote:


 Realistically, is this going to be good value? 
 

It depends on what you exactly mean by value ;

 1) if you look at the design, components used, so much that it is going to be no profit, seems a good value to me.
 2) The fact that Compass is both a DAC and headphone amp without compromising on either - also add to the value
 3) It comes from a manufacturer who is well respected for his quality gears - adds to the value too.

 On how it perform in reality, as far as my thinking goes, the 3 points above logically makes me believe that Compass is a superior piece of gear.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I put the same question across to him, as I was keen on the DAC100.
 What he said was that the DAC section of the Compass will be nearly the same as the DAC100, and would be using the same high grade components.
 You have to also keep in mind that the Compass is actually a NO PROFIT product, and maybe he is also taking in some loss for the initial promotional pricing of USD250..
 So if you ask me, it is practically the same in the DAC area and much more than that in the Compass.._

 

Hi,
 Ok, Let's not kid ourselves. The average Labor rate for factory workers in China is 64 cents an hour. They don't have workers comp insurance or any of the other benefits of the US. Who says there will be no profit here, and who believes them?

 Let's not say it is the greatest thing since sliced bread till we've seen and HEARD it.

 Let's not believe that Audio-gd is so altruistic as to produce these things at a loss for just us.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am curious what the shipping cost to the USA would be for the Compass. Hopefully they can get shipping estimates figured out._

 

Ok, here is the confirmation you require ;

 Kingwa only ships express through DHL, UPS, or TNT, for Compass, where the package weighs around 4-4.5Kgs, shipping to USA through the mentioned couriers will cost around USD50 if it comes within 4kgs, and maybe a little more if it is 4.5kg.. Mind you this is again a very heavily discounted shipping cost, that is because Kingwa is a bulk shipper and as a result he gets significant discount (officially it costs USD125 for 4kg)..

 Btw, shipping does also vary with global oil price ! - guess at the moment its rock bottom..


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Let's not believe that Audio-gd is so altruistic as to produce these things at a loss for just us._

 

Actually, he isn't doing it only for us.. he is a smart business man apart from being a very respected manufacturer.. maybe you missed out the price is only promotional and he will raise it later on as sales pick up..and I think thats a smart way of doing your business, only shows the confidence he has on his product..

 Maybe its better than a piece of bread - to me it looks like a cake !


----------



## GUINNE55

From the product page, thats a lot of stuff for such a unit. I'm gonna be honest, it looks too good to be true. I'll wait until I hear objective reviews maybe I'll pick one up.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GUINNE55* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From the product page, thats a lot of stuff for such a unit. I'm gonna be honest, it looks too good to be true. I'll wait until I hear objective reviews maybe I'll pick one up._

 

good approach I must say.. If people recall (maybe its forgotten now), Bursson audio HDAMs were selling close to 80 bucks (dual), when Audio GD came up with the same and if not better HDAMs for around 20 bucks, people did grab it like it was the best thing after the sliced bread- no questions asked.. so its not a wonder with Audio GD coming up with such things..

 Finally I do think we ought to give some credit to Kingwa, for coming up with Compass upon the request of many headfiers and of course particularly the efforts of members like Currawong for initiating the entire thing..


----------



## nsx_23

Hmm, this looks very interesting. 

 I might be going to guangdong, so I may well audition this.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good approach I must say.. If people recall (maybe its forgotten now), Bursson audio HDAMs were selling close to 80 bucks (dual), when Audio GD came up with the same and if not better HDAMs for around 20 bucks, people did grab it like it was the best thing after the sliced bread- no questions asked.. so its not a wonder with Audio GD coming up with such things.._

 

I could be wrong, but I think Kingwa invented them. His designs are sold under other names, such as Burson.

 About the labor costs thing: That's large companies, not a single guy and maybe a couple of other people designing and hand-building gear.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could be wrong, but I think Kingwa invented them. His designs are sold under other names, such as Burson.

 About the labor costs thing: That's large companies, not a single guy and maybe a couple of other people designing and hand-building gear._

 

Even better if you are right, as it says much about him, he is an innovator too..

 About labor, I guess one look at the HDAMS and one will know it isn't just a work of a 64cents/hour minimum wage worker, and taking into consideration his location near HK his workers must be paid much higher, I am sure these are works of higher quality workers, like he says, all his labors are hifi enthusiasts and technicians, in fact half of his workers working under his guidance have designing capabilities.. maybe thats the real secret why Compass was developed in such a short period of time..


----------



## les_garten

You guys are somethin' else.

 Average Factory worker in US, Canada, UK, Germany, etc $18-$23

 Average Factory worker in China 64 cents.

 That's apples to apples.

 Ahhh, OK Kingwa pays his workers 30% more! 50% More, 100% more, pick your number.

 The moral here is that Labor is almost not a factor for Chinese companies compared to everywhere else in the world, with the exception of other Asian countries who are also low, but outrageously high wages compared to China. Singapore and Thailand are higher but still dirt cheap, etc etc. Taiwan is something Like $5/hr.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys are somethin' else.

 Average Factory worker in US, Canada, UK, Germany, etc $18-$23

 Average Factory worker in China 64 cents.

 That's apples to apples.

 Ahhh, OK Kingwa pays his workers 30% more! 50% More, 100% more, pick your number.

 The moral here is that Labor is almost not a factor for Chinese companies compared to everywhere else in the world, with the exception of other Asian countries who are also low, but outrageously high wages compared to China. Singapore and Thailand are higher but still dirt cheap, etc etc. Taiwan is something Like $5/hr._

 

You know, its no point arguing out here, all you are only looking at, is labor costs and seem to be an expert in that area, so maybe you can answer this too :

 How much would you pay to Kingwa for his labor in designing the Compass, what you call brain labor and investment of time, how much would you pay him per hour? or would you say he doesn't deserve to be paid for this project as that is only meant for innovators and designers in the Western World ??.. 

 64 cents??.. 10 times.. 100 times.. make your pick...


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 Ok, Let's not kid ourselves. The average Labor rate for factory workers in China is 64 cents an hour. They don't have workers comp insurance or any of the other benefits of the US. Who says there will be no profit here, and who believes them?

 Let's not say it is the greatest thing since sliced bread till we've seen and HEARD it.

 Let's not believe that Audio-gd is so altruistic as to produce these things at a loss for just us._

 

There's some serious misunderstanding. The person you are replying to is not saying this is some wannabe jesus christ but that he's selling at a very low price TO PROMOTE THE PRODUCT. The simple fact is audio-gd wants more publicity, and even if you think it is pertinent don't drag politics and economics into this because the focus of this topic is on a product.


----------



## sandchak

Just saw some interesting FAQ on the Compass web page.. deals with questions like how so fast the compass was developed, why such low cost taking into consideration the quality of components and Shipping quotes.. interesting..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know, its no point arguing out here, all you are only looking at, is labor costs and seem to be an expert in that area, so maybe you can answer this too :

 How much would you pay to Kingwa for his labor in designing the Compass, what you call brain labor and investment of time, how much would you pay him per hour? or would you say he doesn't deserve to be paid for this project as that is only meant for innovators and designers in the Western World ??.. 

 64 cents??.. 10 times.. 100 times.. make your pick..._

 

Somehow you misunderstood my point. When you said he is doing this all at "NO PROFIT" you open up this line of questioning. 

 Then statements like, yes it is going to sound better than this product or that product, you start sounding like a company SHILL.

 I can understand being interested in a new product from an interesting company that has a good reputation, but saying he is not making a profit SUSPENDS BELIEF. The obvious next question I would ask is why is this guy saying this. What's his end?

 In closing, can we keep the subjective and supposition to a minimum, the objective to a maximum, and a moratorium on Fairy Tales.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you start sounding like a company SHILL._

 

I get more and more concerned about that when I see him saying the same things as the audio-gd site.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's some serious misunderstanding. The person you are replying to is not saying this is some wannabe jesus christ but that he's selling at a very low price TO PROMOTE THE PRODUCT. The simple fact is audio-gd wants more publicity, and even if you think it is pertinent don't drag politics and economics into this because the focus of this topic is on a product._

 

The opening statement was he is doing this at "NO PROFIT". I didn't say that, I responded to it. I pointed out this company has basically no labor costs and that the parts cost less than $250 or whatever his selling point turns pout to be. . It is common sense that this company produces products for making a profit. However, when a few unbelievable statements get made, someone "should" step up and say hold on there, What's your proof for that statement?

 Before I drink cool aid, I want a list of ingredients.

 I want to hear what people say who have actually seen and DRANK the cool aid.

 I'd like to know how the new cool aid compares to old versions of cool aid.

 Maybe the new cool aid is better, maybe it's the same, maybe it tastes new but leaves a bad after taste in your mouth.

 When I know nobody has seen or drank the cool aid yet, and I start hearing this cool aid is gonna be great, it is gonna taste better than your old cool aid, and the company is producing it as a "Loss Leader", my Antennas perk up and I say whoa!

 I might say let's hear this thing first.

 I might say NO PROFIT? Yeah right!

 Anybody who has been in this hobby for very long, knows that the guy at the high-fi shop has a new wizz bang product each 18 months or so that is WAY better than the last wizz bang product he sold you 18 months before.

 Now, there is a legitimate place for this product. One of the driving factors for this product's development was how bad the Zero was from the factory, what had to be done to it after the factory, and how bad some of the vendors were who sold it. 

 In my defense here, I would have to say, my education is all in the sciences. I appreciate facts, things that are tangible and proven. All we've seen here are artists renderings, and alpha prototype boards.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Somehow you misunderstood my point. When you said he is doing this all at "NO PROFIT" you open up this line of questioning. 

 Then statements like, yes it is going to sound better than this product or that product, you start sounding like a company SHILL.

 I can understand being interested in a new product from an interesting company that has a good reputation, but saying he is not making a profit SUSPENDS BELIEF. The obvious next question I would ask is why is this guy saying this. What's his end?

 In closing, can we keep the subjective and supposition to a minimum, the objective to a maximum, and a moratorium on Fairy Tales._

 

First of all I never said, Compass will sound better than this product or that, headfi gives you the ability to quote, maybe you can help me on that. If you cant, then it will open a line of questions, as to why you are so much against Kingwa, then is it fair to assume maybe you are Kingwas Competitors SHILL? 

 Secondly, I will stick to what I said, that it makes perfect business sense to initially, on the expense of making profit, to promote a product and when the product proves its mettle, to increase the cost.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I get more and more concerned about that when I see him saying the same things as the audio-gd site._

 

Can you expand on that?


----------



## sandchak

And I am NO SHILL, I am maybe the first to pay advance for Compass on 19th December, that is the level of faith in the product, and if you guys think by saying such things it will decrease, sorry it wont - I believe Compass looks like a super product AS A CUSTOMER...


----------



## sandchak

And please note, Kingwa was not accepting to take advance, But I forced him to, as this being holiday season, I did want to spend the money on something else and lose out on Compass..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First of all I never said, Compass will sound better than this product or that, headfi gives you the ability to quote, maybe you can help me on that. If you cant, then it will open a line of questions, as to why you are so much against Kingwa, then is it fair to assume maybe you are Kingwas Competitors SHILL? 

 Secondly, I will stick to what I said, that it makes perfect business sense to initially, on the expense of making profit, to promote a product and when the product proves its mettle, to increase the cost._

 

Hi,
 The point I tried to make here is to be subjective. If it seems like I'm picking on you, I'm not. Your "NO PROFIT" statement was kinda "The Last Straw". I'm sure I'm not the only person here to get the impression that this thread sounds like a marketing tool.

 We don't even know what this product looks like yet, other than a drawing.

 I can't tell how a product sounds by looking at a web page, and reading an advertisement.

 I have nothing against this company, I like "the look" of all their products. The only product of Audio-gd I have, seems to be great(HDAM). I sent out an email to Curra last night to ask if he had any experience with the DAC-8 that I am interested in. I think they have VERY EXCITING products on their web page. I like "THE LOOK" of them all.

 I am not hawking any product or manufacturer here, if you hadn't noticed. I AM asking for "subjective" information. Will I buy a Prototype, NO, I won't. Would I buy this after a few hundred pages of reviews once it is released, maybe.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 The point I tried to make here is to be subjective. If it seems like I'm picking on you, I'm not. Your "NO PROFIT" statement was kinda "The Last Straw". I'm sure I'm not the only person here to get the impression that this thread sounds like a marketing tool.

 We don't even know what this product looks like yet, other than a drawing.

 I can't tell how a product sounds by looking at a web page, and reading an advertisement.

 I have nothing against this company, I like "the look" of all their products. The only product of Audio-gd I have, seems to be great(HDAM). I sent out an email to Curra last night to ask if he had any experience with the DAC-8 that I am interested in. I think they have VERY EXCITING products on their web page. I like "THE LOOK" of them all.

 I am not hawking any product or manufacturer here, if you hadn't noticed. I AM asking for "subjective" information. Will I buy a Prototype, NO, I won't. Would I buy this after a few hundred pages of reviews once it is released, maybe._

 

Les, I do not know who you are particularly aiming at, but:

 1 ) You say : Then statements like, yes it is going to sound better than this product or that product, you start sounding like a company SHILL.

 You couldn't find where I said Compass will sound better than this or that? Right? So you are wrong accusing me of that statement, I proven I have paid much before this day, so don't I prove you and "csroc", you guys are wrong again accusing me to be a SHILL..

 2) I was not the first to say NO PROFIT, I was not corresponding with kingwa on Compass at that period of time (12-3-2008) to get that information, it was Currawong "The price will still be around US$250, though hopefully a bit lower. This is with no profit! He's going to have to make it well as he'll make a complete loss if anything is faulty." and I just trusted a good headfiers word.
 You have been a headfier since November and already written 221 posts at an average of 4.5 posts a day, I think you should start reading posts more carefully than just writing away whatever you feel, maybe you will know things before accusing..

 3) This post was started as a good cause to search for an alternative for ZERO DAC, Clearly says on the Subject, I am grateful and I repeat I AM GRATEFUL to KINGWA to develop something like Compass and Currawong for initiating the entire thing.. If you think this is a wrong place to hear good things and excitement about Compass, then I guess you are at the wrong place..

 Honestly, you have said a lot without knowing who said what.. I have nothing else to say..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And I am NO SHILL, I am maybe the first to pay advance for Compass on 19th December, that is the level of faith in the product, and if you guys think by saying such things it will decrease, sorry it wont - I believe Compass looks like a super product AS A CUSTOMER...

 For those who think I am a SHILL here is the Paypal receipt..





 Dear Sandeep Chakraborty,

 You have sent a payment of $250.00 USD to audio-gd@vip.163.com.

 This transaction will appear soon in the Recent Activity list on your Account Overview.

 Payment details
 Amount: $250.00 USD
 Transaction Date: 19-Dec-2008
 Transaction ID: 1U6441670F6847915

 Subject: Advance for COMPASS DAC

 Message: 
 Hi Kingwa, Here is the advance, the rest I will write to you email.. Thank you Sandeep

 Shipping Address: 

 Nutsubidze Plateau
 Tbilisi
 Georgia
 View the details of this transaction online




 Sincerely,
 PayPal

 Your monthly account statement is available anytime; just log in to your account at https://www.paypal.com/in/HISTORY. To correct any errors, please contact us through our Help Center at https://www.paypal.com/in/HELP.


 Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account and click the Help link in the top right corner of any PayPal page.

 To receive email notifications in plain text instead of HTML, update your preferences.

 ________________________________________
 Copyright © 1999-2008 PayPal. All rights reserved.

 Consumer advisory- PayPal Pte. Ltd., the holder of PayPal’s stored value
 facility, does not require the approval of the Monetary Authority of Singapore.
 Users are advised to read the terms and conditions carefully.

 PayPal Email ID PP118_

 

Ok, let's make sure we understand each other here. You were able to purchase this product before anyone else at a promotional price that is not being offered to the public as yet? A price that we don't know will be offered to the public, since it hasn't been offered. One that by your own admission is at cost, and you wanted to get one at that price while you could. 

 That's a pretty good move on your part. Then when the price goes up, you can sell at possibly a little profit and have use of this piece of equipment for free or even make a profit doing it. You might even be able to Market it as pre-production and sell as a Special Edition that contains features that didn't make it into production.

 I wonder why they would do that for you?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, let's make sure we understand each other here. You were able to purchase this product before anyone else at a promotional price that is not being offered to the public as yet? A price that we don't know will be offered to the public, since it hasn't been offered. One that by your own admission is at cost, and you wanted to get one at that price while you could. 

 That's a pretty good move on your part. Then when the price goes up, you can sell at possibly a little profit and have use of this piece of equipment for free or even make a profit doing it. You might even be able to Market it as pre-production and sell as a Special Edition that contains features that didn't make it into production.

 I wonder why they would do that for you?_

 

Did you read what I said, it was an ADVANCE as written in the Paypal Subject.. What are you talking man??..
 Are you OK?? what are you after??.. you couldn't prove what you accused me of saying.. you couldnt prove I am a SHILL because I paid in advance much earlier.. NOW WHAT??


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, let's make sure we understand each other here. You were able to purchase this product before anyone else at a promotional price that is not being offered to the public as yet? A price that we don't know will be offered to the public, since it hasn't been offered. One that by your own admission is at cost, and you wanted to get one at that price while you could. 

 That's a pretty good move on your part. Then when the price goes up, you can sell at possibly a little profit and have use of this piece of equipment for free or even make a profit doing it. You might even be able to Market it as pre-production and sell as a Special Edition that contains features that didn't make it into production.

 I wonder why they would do that for you?_

 

The price has been established already by Kingwa, just open the website:
  Quote:


 USD250(The initial promotional price) 
 

Your attitude sucks, I had the opportunity to tell you just that a few days ago, just seems to be your way of conducting yourself so, we can't expect a change, I guess that's why ignore lists exist.


----------



## ccschua

Actually I have the chance to compare DAC 100 with Franken ZERO.

 Between DAC100 and Compass, the dac section is the same, and DAC 100 might have slightly better components.

 The difference between DAC100 and Franken Zero is not small. I can immediately hear how clean and how detail DAC100 can be. The distortion in DAC100 is extremely low, the sound is smoother. 

 On openning the DAC100, you can notice the components used are alot better than u can find in ZERO. Fully dale resistor, CMC RCA, >10k microfarads capcitor, etc the list go on.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Les, I do not know who you are particularly aiming at, but:

 1 ) You say : Then statements like, yes it is going to sound better than this product or that product, you start sounding like a company SHILL.

 You couldn't find where I said Compass will sound better than this or that? Right? So you are wrong accusing me of that statement, I proven I have paid much before this day, so don't I prove you and "csroc", you guys are wrong again accusing me to be a SHILL..

 2) I was not the first to say NO PROFIT, I was not corresponding with kingwa on Compass at that period of time (12-3-2008) to get that information, it was Currawong "The price will still be around US$250, though hopefully a bit lower. This is with no profit! He's going to have to make it well as he'll make a complete loss if anything is faulty." and I just trusted a good headfiers word.
 You have been a headfier since November and already written 221 posts at an average of 4.5 posts a day, I think you should start reading posts more carefully than just writing away whatever you feel, maybe you will know things before accusing..

 3) This post was started as a good cause to search for an alternative for ZERO DAC, Clearly says on the Subject, I am grateful and I repeat I AM GRATEFUL to KINGWA to develop something like Compass and Currawong for initiating the entire thing.. If you think this is a wrong place to hear good things and excitement about Compass, then I guess you are at the wrong place..

 Honestly, you have said a lot without knowing who said what.. I have nothing else to say.._

 

I'm not aiming at anybody, you still don't get that part. You do defendeth yourself loudly though!

 I never said YOU said it would be better than another product. I said it was mentioned in the thread. You did make some statements about a product comparison, but I didn't quote them.

 Every product in R&D pre-production is at a Profit Loss. IT hasn't been sold yet, except to you of course. Your NO PROFIT post sounded like a sales pitch. That's the message I received.

 I'm grateful to all the Chinese companies making good products. You suggest because someone voices an observation, he should go elsewhere.

 Ok, so I joined in November, and you make an observation about how many posts I've made. You've obviously done at least a cursory glance look at my profile looking for a few straws to grasp. You might mention how many threads I've posted on. Sorry that I read so fast. If I had 1 post a week, I'm sure you would mention that also as being too few to speak up. As I mentioned before, address the subjective.

 Ohh and congratulations on the deal you got before anybody else did!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Ohh and congratulations on the deal you got before anybody else did!_

 


 What deal are talking about???.. I just paid some advance so that I dont spend the money due to holiday season, and whenever he would fix the price, and the Compass would be ready for sale and shipping, I would pay the rest and the shipping, so that I would be among the receivers of the first batch of Compass as he had initially planned to make the first 10 Compass all Aluminum and the rest, only aluminum faceplate but rest iron, later he changed his mind and decided to make all aluminum.. I still dont understand what you are trying to get at, anyway, that is your problem, not mine..


----------



## csroc

Well in spite of all this drama I'm excited about this product 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I just wish it had a crossfeed mechanism.


----------



## GUINNE55

I have to say, there is a ton of fanboyism in here. First off, R&D into a product is always a loss, thats how it works, its not like it's something special there that hes not being paid to design a new product. Does a farmer get paid for going out every day and working in the fields? No, he gets paid when he sells his crop.

 To say that hes operating at a loss is foolish. Theres reasons why you don't find businesses operating at a loss, cause they don't stay in business long.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GUINNE55* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to say, there is a ton of fanboyism in here. First off, R&D into a product is always a loss, thats how it works, its not like it's something special there that hes not being paid to design a new product. Does a farmer get paid for going out every day and working in the fields? No, he gets paid when he sells his crop.

 To say that hes operating at a loss is foolish. Theres reasons why you don't find businesses operating at a loss, cause they don't stay in business long._

 

I dont know about farmers, but it was smart but calculated risk he has taken to establish Compass, and also I dont think his business is running at an loss overall, I am sure if that was the case he would have shut down by now, but he talking about ONLY Compass among his many other products where I am sure he is making quite a good profit..


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GUINNE55* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to say, there is a ton of fanboyism in here. First off, R&D into a product is always a loss, thats how it works, its not like it's something special there that hes not being paid to design a new product. Does a farmer get paid for going out every day and working in the fields? No, he gets paid when he sells his crop.

 To say that hes operating at a loss is foolish. Theres reasons why you don't find businesses operating at a loss, cause they don't stay in business long._

 

As a general practice this is true, specially the traditional businesses, but you cannot generalize such things, many markets operate at loss even after sale, while quantities up, and when you hit a certain target / quantity, then you begin to recover at a (possible) exponential rate. 

 For example the PlayStations, Xbox's, etc, they begin at a loss, and a big one, but once your able to sell a couple of million the parts start to get way cheaper for you, to the tune of fractions of what they costed, the production gets cheaper, the design is perfected, errors in the manufacturing process start to happened a lot less, etc.

 I worked for Infinium/Qimonda (semiconductor manufacturer) for some time, and this is the way they operate also, for the most part.

 It is a calculated risk, and as such some products fail and give some big headaches to the CEOs of the world, with great losses to justify, some have great success.


----------



## les_garten

Ok, I'll accept the penalty flag here. I'm all wrong.

 There are strict forum rules here about what can be posted by who. Manufacturers are not supposed to post in threads about products, AFAIK. Kingwas can't post here, nes pas?

 The message I am receiving here is a marketing message. Maybe the messages were zealousness for a new and desired product, and are honest excitement. I didn't say anything till the NO PROFIT post. It was that post that made this thread go kinda marketing to me. 

 I'm just telling you the message I received. My reception is based on my perceptions. At "least" one other person spoke up and noticed the same thing. You get three people and it's called a trend.

 Here's my "real" problem. I'm watching this thread because I am in the Market for another DAC. I am interested in this one. When I "receive" a message that seems like marketing, it affects the credibility of reviews later on. This seems like common sense to me.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I get more and more concerned about that when I see him saying the same things as the audio-gd site._

 

Well, if you see my attached Paypal receipt, paid on 19th of December as an advance for Compass, hopefully half your concerns will be addressed.

 Now to the other half - why I sound like Compass webpage?

 Personally, and I again say Personally, I feel Kingwa has been very helpful in taking our concerns and developing Compass, I don't care whether he makes profit or not because it doesn't come to my pocket, neither does it go from mine.. but as an audio lover, if Compass is what it seems to be, it would be the best thing for me..
 If you noticed, a few of days ago, someone from the forum was very critical of the English language on Compass webpage, I wanted to return this favor to Kingwa and I asked him, since people have problem understanding his English language, if he wished, I would edit his english for the Compass web page, it was just a sign of appreciation of what he did.
 Which does not mean if his Compass is bad, he would not be slammed because my hard earned money has gone into it..

 Do you think I did wrong??..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, if you see my attached Paypal receipt, paid on 19th of December as an advance for Compass, hopefully half your concerns will be addressed.

 Now to the other half - why I sound like Compass webpage?

 Personally, and I again say Personally, I feel Kingwa has been very helpful in taking our concerns and developing Compass, I don't care whether he makes profit or not because it doesn't come to my pocket, neither does it go from mine.. but as an audio lover, if Compass is what it seems to be, it would be the best thing for me..
 If you noticed, a few of days ago, someone from the forum was very critical of the English language on Compass webpage, I wanted to return this favor to Kingwa and I asked him, since people have problem understanding his English language, if he wished, I would edit his english for the Compass web page, it was just a sign of appreciation of what he did.
 Which does not mean if his Compass is bad, he would be slammed because my hard earned money has gone into it..

 Do you think I did wrong??.._

 

You sound like a liaison for the company. You are offering to do work for them, either free or otherwise.

 That doesn't mean the company is bad or makes bad products. They make awesome products as far as everything i have read.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You sound like a liaison for the company. You are offering to do work for them, either free or otherwise.

 That doesn't mean the company is bad or makes bad products. They make awesome products as far as everything i have read._

 

Dont keep passing your judgments on people.. its not good..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dont keep passing your judgments on people.. its not good.._

 

"Do you think I did wrong??.."

 You aksed the question and don't like the answer.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Do you think I did wrong??.."

 You aksed the question and don't like the answer._

 

Les, you are wrong again.. look properly, I did not ask YOU that question...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually I have the chance to compare DAC 100 with Franken ZERO.

 Between DAC100 and Compass, the dac section is the same, and DAC 100 might have slightly better components.

 The difference between DAC100 and Franken Zero is not small. I can immediately hear how clean and how detail DAC100 can be. The distortion in DAC100 is extremely low, the sound is smoother. 

 On openning the DAC100, you can notice the components used are alot better than u can find in ZERO. Fully dale resistor, CMC RCA, >10k microfarads capcitor, etc the list go on._

 

Hi,

 Was the comparison based on using any HDAMs on the DAC100 or the stock OPA2134??.. initially I was very keen on getting the DAC100 along with ST3 headphone amp..


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 Was the comparison based on using any HDAMs on the DAC100 or the stock OPA2134??.. initially I was very keen on getting the DAC100 along with ST3 headphone amp.._

 

I would like to know this as well. If those impressions are based on the DAC100 using its stock opamp then I will purchase one in a week or so.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 Was the comparison based on using any HDAMs on the DAC100 or the stock OPA2134??.. initially I was very keen on getting the DAC100 along with ST3 headphone amp.._

 

I am comparing Sun V2 on ZERO DAC and Sun V2 on DAC 100. 

 If u buy kingwa product, u are sure of getting better quality than other China made product.


----------



## Currawong

My God some of you guys are silly, of COURSE Kingwa is making this product to promote himself. Part of the reason I started all this was because of something Les said in the Zero thread, asking me why I was linking to a Zero seller whom people were having bad experiences with. I think we'd all rather support businesses who are interested in making and selling a quality product.

 Now if you guys are going to act like children and argue over nonsense like the labor wage in China (especially stupid when most of the things you have bought are made there) then I might have to ask a mod to clean up this thread. Kingwa is very sensitive to criticism. If satisfying your ego is more important than not pissing people off and derailing the purpose of this thread, please step away from the computer and do something else for a while.


----------



## GUINNE55

Can anyone say when the first reviews will be out?


----------



## prinz

in about month or two.


----------



## Currawong

Kingwa has asked me to review it, which I'm happy to do. I'll put it against a Zero + HDAM on the DAC/amp side, and his own C2C on the amp side.


----------



## Currawong

Kingwa has asked me to review it, which I'm happy to do. I'll put it against a Zero + HDAM on the DAC/amp side, and his own C2C on the amp side.


----------



## sandchak

That is Great News, Curra.

 maybe when I get my Compass, I can do a little bit of my own too.


----------



## prinz

@curra 
 when you'll make review, please write few words about comparison of compass to northstar. I know compass its not northstar league, but i would be very pleased if You could do that.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prinz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@curra 
 when you'll make review, please write few words about comparison of compass to northstar. I know compass its not northstar league, but i would be very pleased if You could do that._

 

For sure. I'll see if I can't meet up with LobsterSan and do some comparisons with his Benchmark DAC1 as well using his Stax rigs (and mine too), as he wants to hear how good the Northstar is.


----------



## sandchak

Actually there is one review which I am keen on, and that is Compass against Zero + HDAM + Franken mods.. but I presume someone will do that on a later date as and when Compass hits the market..


----------



## haloxt

Which OPA will you guys choose? People seem to like the Moon OPA better than the Earth OPA.


----------



## sandchak

What I have heard of Earth is that it is very neutral, and my system being on the brighter side, I chose moon for my ZERO, which made my gear distinctly sound more musical, mellow and laid back.. so it actually depends on your taste or preference of sound..


----------



## ccschua

Earth is neutral. Music sound natural as it is.

 Sun V2 is more dynamics, more energy, and vocal more forward. When u play acoustics guitars, or drums, u will surely like this.

 Moon is more towards vocal and laid back. sweet and smooth.


----------



## csroc

I personally would prefer the amp have a neutral sound characteristic. Sounds like Earth would be good for my uses.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You sound like a liaison for the company. You are offering to do work for them, either free or otherwise.

 That doesn't mean the company is bad or makes bad products. They make awesome products as far as everything i have read._

 

So you're saying that anyone who offers to correct a few simple english mistakes on a web page that happens to be describing a product that was built and designed for people interested in the aforementioned product have connections with the company? I'm sure anyone in this thread would be happy to do such a trivial task for free. 

 If Kingwa really wanted to market his products he would have probably hired a company to make his website all flashy and started advertising all over the place. Consequently the price of his products would have to reflect the cost of advertising. Instead, he just uses word of mouth and good experience with his products in itself no doubt has driven his sales up, and conversely our trust in him as a reputable manufacturer has risen. Sure you might say that some pre release hype and a few overly positive reviews from such hype may make a product seem better than it actually is, but when you have hundreds of pages of thread from different users who have compared against other products discussing how good one manufacturer's product is then imo, it becomes almost statistically impossible to conclude that the product is bad. That is unless all those people are hired under Kingwa to specifically promote his product (which I find absurd). Given this, its not surprise that at least one of us is enthusiastic enough to put in an advance payment.

 Accepting the offer to design and build the Compass DAC obviously means that in the long term he will generate a profit and personally I don't give a rats arse if he's not making a profit at $250 USD because all that matters is that I, the end user gets a good product at a good price. Sure it might be a sales pitch but as a well informed reader which I'm sure you would be cutting through all the ******** (if any) of any product that would you were considering putting your hard earned cash into, so I don't see any reason to give sandchak so much crap. It It's unfair to count up the components, come up with a price tag and then say way under the sale price since R+D haven't been factored in. Besides, correct me if I'm wrong, to get the same components in an all aluminium box with well known brand name badged on the front would cost a lot more?

 AFAIK Kingwa is allowed to post here and also allowed to get member of the trade status but for one reason or another that we don't know he has chosen to inform us instead through his website and through Head-Fi members. This system works for him so you should let him be


----------



## GUINNE55

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you're saying that anyone who offers to correct a few simple english mistakes on a web page that happens to be describing a product that was built and designed for people interested in the aforementioned product have connections with the company? I'm sure anyone in this thread would be happy to do such a trivial task for free. 

 If Kingwa really wanted to market his products he would have probably hired a company to make his website all flashy and started advertising all over the place. Consequently the price of his products would have to reflect the cost of advertising. Instead, he just uses word of mouth and good experience with his products in itself no doubt has driven his sales up, and conversely our trust in him as a reputable manufacturer has risen. Sure you might say that some pre release hype and a few overly positive reviews from such hype may make a product seem better than it actually is, but when you have hundreds of pages of thread from different users who have compared against other products discussing how good one manufacturer's product is then imo, it becomes almost statistically impossible to conclude that the product is bad. That is unless all those people are hired under Kingwa to specifically promote his product (which I find absurd). Given this, its not surprise that at least one of us is enthusiastic enough to put in an advance payment.

 Accepting the offer to design and build the Compass DAC obviously means that in the long term he will generate a profit and personally I don't give a rats arse if he's not making a profit at $250 USD because all that matters is that I, the end user gets a good product at a good price. Sure it might be a sales pitch but as a well informed reader which I'm sure you would be cutting through all the ******** (if any) of any product that would you were considering putting your hard earned cash into, so I don't see any reason to give sandchak so much crap. It It's unfair to count up the components, come up with a price tag and then say way under the sale price since R+D haven't been factored in. Besides, correct me if I'm wrong, to get the same components in an all aluminium box with well known brand name badged on the front would cost a lot more?

 AFAIK Kingwa is allowed to post here and also allowed to get member of the trade status but for one reason or another that we don't know he has chosen to inform us instead through his website and through Head-Fi members. This system works for him so you should let him be_

 

you missed the point. He was saying that there's reason to be skeptical about this product, perhaps more so than others. And frankly its a sound choice to be cautious.

 And their little flame war was over, let it r.i.p.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GUINNE55* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you missed the point. He was saying that there's reason to be skeptical about this product, perhaps more so than others. And frankly its a sound choice to be cautious.

 And their little flame war was over, let it r.i.p._

 

It sounded to me like we should be cautious of sandchak but anyway all is cool and I'm looking forward to some reviews on this DAC


----------



## GUINNE55

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sounded to me like we should be cautious of sandchak but anyway all is cool and I'm looking forward to some reviews on this DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Me too.


----------



## ccschua

I was sceptical with kingwa products, until I tried the OPA.

 Then I heard the DAC 100, and now I am more convinced why he is good in this business.

 Now if u doubt his ability, u are welcome to sit at the fence first.

 What I do like the way kingwa conducts his business is the passion he puts into his products.


----------



## sandchak

Well, I thought it was kind of directed towards me too, with statements like, you sound like a shill, you sound like a liaison, Congratulations with the deal, as if I was have received the first prototype Compass and was going to sell it in the market looking for profits. Maybe I overreacted, maybe I should have just ignored, but then I did find it too personal.

 It is true by nature I am very friendly and I love to communicate, whether it be my EBay purchases and sales, or out here, to me I find it as a way to gather as much information, I have tons of correspondence with Mr Wong (wsz0304) about ZERO, even more with his assistant Cathy, through which I know the background of ZERO and what may be coming up next.

 The same goes with Kingwa, I have bought stuffs from him before, I am buying now and I plan to buy more in future in pursuit of my passion – In the process, I have personally found him very friendly, ready to advice and very knowledgeable and it helps me a lot in my cause.

 I personally cannot help but trust a businessman who when asked for advice to whether go for a combination of DAC100 and ST3 or Compass, is advised to go for Compass, when the combination of the former would bring in twice as much to his pockets, I cannot help a trust being developed such a person.
 Since I correspond with him, like I do with everyone in the process of making a purchase and gathering knowledge about the product, and also since Compass yet hasn’t hit the market, no one has seen or been reviewed, I do not address my question about Compass on the forum, but directly to him – his answer is usually very quick, and all I am doing is passing the information that I have gathered personally to the forum, I am NO WAY being asked by anyone to do so, its the feeling of a community that makes me do so.

 Yes, I personally believe it is true, that he makes his products with passion and puts in his best effort to perfect the product, through my correspondence with him, I also know that he is tinkering with the idea of including a custom made power cable with every Compass for the first batch, as he believes his products are very critical to power cables in bringing out the best, so if I shared this information with the community, would it mean I am a some kind of SHILL and Liaison??.. It takes effort to write, time to correspond and I was only doing this passing of information for the feeling of community.

 I understand I have taken enough space again, what I don't understand is why, sharing of information or personal perspectives and impressions is deemed as marketing, so I wont write any further and stick to Compass, which this thread is all about..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'm all for better gear at better prices....let's wait and see ...test this little guy first before saying anything more about it. The hard part now, is the wait ...hang in there guys and girl(s) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Happy New Year all !!!!

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Same to you Pete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## sandchak

Same out here, need to keep the excitement on check..

 Happy New Year, Peete and everyone on the greatest forum on Earth !


----------



## RAQemUP

I already withheld a purchase on a RSA P-51 Mustang since this would seem perfect for my needs. Mainly PC and PS3 "quiet time" use.


----------



## scootermafia

To Kingwa:

 If the Compass doesn't already have it, give it a Neutrik locking headphone jack. I'm a shallow person and I base part of my buying decision on the amp not hurting my eyes.


----------



## csroc

Haha I am more interested in the power output and the voltage swing/RMS voltage than that.


----------



## Taikero

I'm eagerly awaiting first reviews on this new product. I'm very interested in how it compares to other products in the $200-$400 range.


----------



## sandchak

Actually I was also very keen on having a Neutrik headphone plug on the Compass, as with my experience with the Shanling PH100, the 701s fit quite nice and tight, apart from better sonic quality and reliability. What he wrote was that he will be using the "Neutrik LIKE" plugs on the Compass, like the ones on the ST3 head-amp, but he would be able to upgrade to genuine Neutrik plug for an additional cost of USD10.


----------



## Currawong

I asked him to use Neutrik jacks from the start, because the Chinese-rip-off ones he was using aren't so good, becoming loose and not holding the connections so well after a while.


----------



## bearmann

Hi,
 I asked Kingwa a few questions via mail, today. The Following is an excerpt of his reply - probably helping some folks clarify things...

*Question:* Am I right, that the DAC and amp section are 'dc-coupled'? (So there are no capacitors in the signal path)
*Answer:* Yes, No any coupled cap in the signal path.

*Question:* What's the benefit of your "parallel connection volume control" and how much would this upgrade cost? I'm curious because I thought that there is no need for such an upgrade when using a high end potentiometer, like ALPS Blue... ?!
*Answer:*This volume control, the signal don't throuhg the potertioneter, direct feed to the amp, so don't need very Hi-End potertioneter, the sound can good. In the other hand, the class volume control, the signal must through the potereioneter, if the potereioneter not very Hi-End, it will effect SQ.
 Compass price inc "parallel connection volume control", don't need extra cost.

*Question:* Can you anticipiate the final release date?
*Answer:* If in my plan, it will be available at 15th or 20th of Jan.

 Long story short: It's dc-coupled, the "parallel connection volume control" is part of the whole package and we will have to wait at least two additional weeks.

 best regards,
 bearmann


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bearmann* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 I asked Kingwa a few questions via mail, today. The Following is an excerpt of his reply - probably helping some folks clarify things...

*Question:* Am I right, that the DAC and amp section are 'dc-coupled'? (So there are no capacitors in the signal path)
*Answer:* Yes, No any coupled cap in the signal path.

*Question:* What's the benefit of your "parallel connection volume control" and how much would this upgrade cost? I'm curious because I thought that there is no need for such an upgrade when using a high end potentiometer, like ALPS Blue... ?!
*Answer:*This volume control, the signal don't throuhg the potertioneter, direct feed to the amp, so don't need very Hi-End potertioneter, the sound can good. In the other hand, the class volume control, the signal must through the potereioneter, if the potereioneter not very Hi-End, it will effect SQ.
 Compass price inc "parallel connection volume control", don't need extra cost.

*Question:* Can you anticipiate the final release date?
*Answer:* If in my plan, it will be available at 15th or 20th of Jan.

 Long story short: It's dc-coupled, the "parallel connection volume control" is part of the whole package and we will have to wait at least two additional weeks.

 best regards,
 bearmann_

 

AND it will be released on Inauguration day!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Mid-January... I may have to hold off on the purchase of a DacMagic... wish the pound was stronger against the dollar right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 USD$250 is now £172, according to XE.com - even more when PayPal bend you over. Back a few months, it was $2/£1 on XE, and probably $1.85/£1 with PayPal... it's now worth $1.45 on XE.

 6 months ago, the Compass would have been around £50 less than it is now. Assuming it does come in at USD$250... ahh... there's post on top, IIRC?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## scootermafia

Eww, Neutrik-like. I knew the one on the front of the C2C was a phony and that's part of the reason why I didn't order one. 

 At least Stephen from Rockhopper Audio was awesome and did last minute surgery on the M3 I ordered the night before he shipped it out, adding a $9 neutrik locking jack, black with the gold contacts, for free.

 Why even buy an amp if the headphone jack is ass...I'm very big on finishing touches. For instance, I wouldn't buy a house if it didn't have granite counters in the kitchen, and one of those large sunken bathtubs in the master bathroom. It is little touches like that that increase pleasure of ownership, improve the appearance, and add to the perceived value of a product - that, and from a practical consideration they will outlast and outperform the 10 cent Chinese alternative.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Scooter...what's your point ?

 Peete.

 PS


----------



## csroc

I emailed them asking what the voltage output was going to be, he responded quite quickly and also provided an extra bit of information you may like scooter.

  Quote:


 The output signal voltage is 8VRMS/32 ohms load.
 Last day a customer tell me best to use Neutrik jack, so now I will product all Compass use real Neutrik jack.


----------



## scootermafia

My point was that you ruin a good design on anything by failing to finish it properly. Like shipping a sports car that doesn't have nice rims.

 I'm glad to see that Kingwa came to his senses and is putting real Neutrik parts on his amps.


----------



## bearmann

Well, for me a non-Neutrik plug would'nt be a show stopper... but it's fine that he follows his consumer wishes.

 best regards,
 bearmann


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bearmann* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, for me a non-Neutrik plug would'nt be a show stopper... but it's fine that he follows his consumer wishes.

 best regards,
 bearmann_

 

He reads this thread, so, yes, indeed.


----------



## moonboy403

Being priced around $250, it's only natural that it'll go against the Keces DA151 which is also priced at $250. Would you be able to do that Curra?

 Thanks.


----------



## sandchak

If I am not mistaken, Keces DA 151, is only a DAC and not a Headphone amp + DAC combo, The Keces DA 152, which is both DAC and headphone amp, costs around USD450.. Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I am not mistaken, Keces DA 151, is only a DAC and not a Headphone amp + DAC combo, The Keces DA 152, which is both DAC and headphone amp, costs around USD450.. Correct me if I am wrong._

 

You're absolutely right. I guess I should've been a little more clear. I would like to see a comparison between the Keces DA151 and the Compass only on the strength of the DACs.


----------



## sandchak

Well, that question would be addressed only once Compass hits the market and there are some reviews..

 But I think Kingwa, does sell a standalone DAC (DAC100), which is closer to the price of KECES DA151, what I hear is that the DAC section of the Compass will be very similar ( apart from the extra features of adjusting the sound signature to ones liking) to DAC 100 and the headphone section may even surpass the ST3 ( Kingwas headphone amp).. So if someone has had the chance to compare the KECES DA 151 and DAC 100 - that may be able to throw some light.. before the Compass is released.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moonboy403* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Being priced around $250, it's only natural that it'll go against the Keces DA151 which is also priced at $250. Would you be able to do that Curra?

 Thanks._

 

If Keces were willing to lend me a 152 I would. I definitely think they should be compared though.


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If Keces were willing to lend me a 152 I would. I definitely think they should be compared though._

 

You should PM Maniac and see if he's willing to do so.


----------



## sandchak

That really would be nice - to compare it with something costing nearly twice as much...


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My point was that you ruin a good design on anything by failing to finish it properly. Like shipping a sports car that doesn't have nice rims.

 I'm glad to see that Kingwa came to his senses and is putting real Neutrik parts on his amps._

 

Also, the price just went up by USD$8... (just went to the website)


----------



## Mario_Fpolis

I assume that is the cost of the Neutrik plug, am I wrong?

 BTW, like other poster said later, I am putting a hold on a DacMagic.


----------



## oldschool

Does the site open so sluggishly for you, too?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the site open so sluggishly for you, too?_

 


 Which site?


----------



## Mario_Fpolis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ 
 Originally Posted by oldschool View Post

 Does the site open so sluggishly for you, too?


 Which site?_

 

The Kingwa site, my friend.

 Yeap!
 Sometimes it doesn´t open completely. Then I stop firefox session and do a refresh. Try it.

 Regards, Mario


----------



## ccschua

I have taken the DAC 100 from my fren and I would be comparing the unit with the ZERO DAC Franken. Since DAC 100 and Compass is about the same, with each has its own pros, so hope to do a more indepth review.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I wonder if Kingwa will let us have a discount if we don't want the expensive socket?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if Kingwa will let us have a discount if we don't want the expensive socket?

 ~Phewl._

 

You want the Neutrik socket, trust me. The Chinese one is crap. I had channel drop-out on my C2C with it, until I bent the internal pins to give better contact. It also doesn't lock properly, leaving 1-2mm of play (!!) in the plug, which I've never even had with a non-locking socket.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mario_Fpolis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Kingwa site, my friend.

 Yeap!
 Sometimes it doesn´t open completely. Then I stop firefox session and do a refresh. Try it.

 Regards, Mario_

 

It always loads fast for me. Couple things you might want to look into. Stop your Firewall, Virus scanner, spyware blocker, etc, then try to go the sight and see if there is a change. I've never seen that site load slow. It could be your ISP also.


----------



## bearmann

I hope that Kingwa hides the Neutrik socket behind the frontplate. I too like the Neutrik plug but it looks plain crap on every device...

 best regards,
 bearmann


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bearmann* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope that Kingwa hides the Neutrik socket behind the frontplate. I too like the Neutrik plug but it looks plain crap on every device...

 best regards,
 bearmann_

 

Looks?!?! What are you talking about? Don't you know you should be leaning back in a comfy chair with your eyes shut when listening to music, not staring at the headphone socket!


----------



## bearmann

Haha... of course! And you would've bought your MacBook Pro even if it looks like this... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In Germany we say "Das Auge isst mit!" (you eat with your eyes too)... so let's hope that Kingwa thinks the same way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 best regards,
 bearmann


----------



## sandchak

deleted.. sorry, it was irrelevant..


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You want the Neutrik socket, trust me. The Chinese one is crap. I had channel drop-out on my C2C with it, until I bent the internal pins to give better contact. It also doesn't lock properly, leaving 1-2mm of play (!!) in the plug, which I've never even had with a non-locking socket._

 

I'll very rarely be using the headphone amplifier, as I primarily use my Stax rig.

 The expensive socket offers no real value to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl.


----------



## sandchak

I am quite sure, if you ask Kingwa, he would make one for you without the Neutrik plugs, he does custom fittings for customers and it might save you 8 bucks, but thinking long term, I think the Neutrik would serve as a good resale value - if in case you want to sell the Compass in the future.. IMHO..


----------



## zac_in_ak

Man I am totally stoked about this I was looking for an entry level DAC that had optical (mac User) with headphone amp to replace an AMC integrated that is a little beat done w issues. Comon tax refund daddy needs a new toy!


----------



## sandchak

To Currawong

 Don't you think it is time that we mention the name of Compass DAC + Headphone amp on the subject of this thread - now that we at least have the name confirmed and very soon the product too??..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To Currawong

 Don't you think it is time that we mention the name of Compass DAC + Headphone amp on the subject of this thread - now that we at least have the name confirmed and very soon the product too??.._

 

Done.


----------



## sandchak

Thanks Curra - looks good.. patience seems to be the most difficult virtue..


----------



## davidw89

Hey guys would this be good as a receiver for your HTPC? Also how good is the USB Dac?


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidw89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys would this be good as a receiver for your HTPC? Also how good is the USB Dac?_

 

It wouldn't unless you only have a pair of speakers for stereo or you're only gonna be using your headphone. Most external DACs can only decode 2 channels audio and have no capability in decoding DTS or DD.


----------



## scootermafia

If you are using your HTPC just for 2 channel listening, and with headphones, it would work. It'd also be a fine DAC for using with a separate integrated amp + speakers if that was how you were gonna use it.


----------



## tea-head

Currawong,

 How do I find the new amp/dac on Kingwas website? 

 t


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tea-head* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currawong,

 How do I find the new amp/dac on Kingwas website? 

 t_

 


ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## tea-head

Thanks, Les

 anyone heard one of these yet?

 t


----------



## sandchak

Nope.. but like you say, trust - yes, verified - not yet...


----------



## tea-head

...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The C2C, since it adds a bit of (tight) bass and treble, might be a good match for the K701s. It makes my modded + re-cupped Denons and ED9s too boomy though._

 

Hi Curra,

 I might be heading towards Denons very soon, I know you will be getting a Compass to review, maybe you could let me know how it sounds with the Denon 5000, well, 5000 is at the moment over my budget, but I am very keen on the 2000, if I am not mistaken they share the same drivers, so if you can let me know how the 5000 sound with Compass, it will be of great help..

 Thanks


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Curra,

 I might be heading towards Denons very soon, I know you will be getting a Compass to review, maybe you could let me know how it sounds with the Denon 5000, well, 5000 is at the moment over my budget, but I am very keen on the 2000, if I am not mistaken they share the same drivers, so if you can let me know how the 5000 sound with Compass, it will be of great help..

 Thanks_

 


 I have the D5000, awesome Headphone, same driver as D2000. Dynamat plus recable with Mogami and you got something working there. My Denon sounds great with Zero and Yulong DAH1.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the D5000, awesome Headphone, same driver as D2000. Dynamat plus recable with Mogami and you got something working there. My Denon sounds great with Zero and Yulong DAH1._

 

Thanks Les,

 The problem is that, although I'll be getting the Compass soon, I needed some inputs from Curra, since he has a D5000 and will be having the Compass too for review.. but then I never knew about the Dynamat and recabling with Mogami, although I read somewhere, that with some Mods, the 2000 can reach, if not surpass an unmodded D5000..


----------



## UncleDavid218

So what's the ETA on this thing? I've got cash in hand. I know it's "soon" but does soon mean a week or a month?


----------



## scootermafia

The guy was saying previously about 2nd-3rd week in January.


----------



## sandchak

That is correct, it should start rolling out latest by 20-22 of this month..
 I heard from him today saying all the components arrived , so its all about assembling and burn-in (running in) before he starts to churn out Compass as planned..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Les,

 The problem is that, although I'll be getting the Compass soon, I needed some inputs from Curra, since he has a D5000 and will be having the Compass too for review.. but then I never knew about the Dynamat and recabling with Mogami, although I read somewhere, that with some Mods, the 2000 can reach, if not surpass an unmodded D5000.._

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/how...0-mods-299627/


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/how...0-mods-299627/_

 

Now this intrigues me greatly.......I need some closed back cans so I can listen at the cottage without bugging everyone else (at night anyway).

 Thanks for the link Les !!!.....

 Thanks for the update on the Compass Sandchak. I will also be reviewing it with a couple of twists...I plan to compare it against my current ref rig setup and of course Frankie in the head fi rig...should be interesting.

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now this intrigues me greatly.......I need some closed back cans so I can listen at the cottage without bugging everyone else (at night anyway).

 Thanks for the link Les !!!.....

 Thanks for the update on the Compass Sandchak. I will also be reviewing it with a couple of twists...I plan to compare it against my current ref rig setup and of course Frankie in the head fi rig...should be interesting.

 Peete._

 

The only difference in the D2000's and D5000 and D7000 is some cable and wood. Most bang for the buck is to get D2000, recable(Important in this case) and dampen the cups and drivers with the Dynamat. ONE HELL OF A PHONE!


----------



## Taikero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only difference in the D2000's and D5000 and D7000 is some cable and wood. Most bang for the buck is to get D2000, recable(Important in this case) and dampen the cups and drivers with the Dynamat. ONE HELL OF A PHONE!_

 

It's also a good idea to have the D2000 woodied while you're at it.

 See Lawton Audio for more information.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Taikero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's also a good idea to have the D2000 woodied while you're at it.

 See Lawton Audio for more information._

 

Well, when you pay for the woody on the D2000, you are now into D5000 territories is the issue. Depends on where you want to land in respect to cost.

 The other idea is get some MarkL cups, some Mogami, 1/4" Furutech, some Dynamat and you beat out the D7000 for a lot less. World class phones


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks guys....I'm almost finished reading the Markl mod thread...just another 20 pages or so.....

 In any event...I love this damn board....so many good folks with great ideas sharing them openly.....

 D5000's are on the radar......Hopefully a used set will be available when I have the funds to pick up a pair....the audio-gd Reference 1 DAC is priority 1 this spring, after that it looks like the D5000's are no 2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks guys....I'm almost finished reading the Markl mod thread...just another 20 pages or so.....

 In any event...I love this damn board....so many good folks with great ideas sharing them openly.....

 D5000's are on the radar......Hopefully a used set will be available when I have the funds to pick up a pair....the audio-gd Reference 1 DAC is priority 1 this spring, after that it looks like the D5000's are no 2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 

When you jump in on these, let us know what you think!


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1_

 

Great link! 

 So there was just a thread in the portables section where a few desktop amp guys had some impolite things to say about portables. So I asked if I could get a decent desktop for the same price as a portable and it has been silent in there for 3 days. I wish someone had just linked me to this thread, or the Zero thread. I knew I should've just come in here and looked around earlier. I guess it was my poor wallet keeping me out.

 I am pretty excited for this amp now, I just need to count my pennies until it comes out.


----------



## sandchak

To Les:

 Thanks mate – that’s a real gem of a site – I am more than sure now that I will head for the D2000 – but like Peete I guess, I’ll lookout for a used one and maybe save some bucks !! and save for the mods..

 To Peete:

 I can’t wait for yours and Curra’s Compass review, I am sure the Compass vs Franken is going to be really interesting, and all the more because these reviews are something I trust , and many will base their purchase upon, I am also sure soon you will come up with some Franken Compass !!
 I am in the process of revamping my audio gear and I think I am heading towards Denons too – but after Kingwa comes with an upgraded P1 preamp (with upgradable modules), which will have added features apart from being smaller (like Compass) and much lighter, which will save me a lot on shipping.. Btw, the digital Processor which is mentioned on the Zero thread, if it is what it seems, then it’s a real breakthrough product ad I am sure will raise some eyebrows in the Audiophile world.. In fact I was on my way to buy a new sound card for my PC, when he stopped me and told me about this product coming out soon – Can you imagine all the junk from the PC being transformed into something audiophile!!
 Btw, good luck with the Reference One DAC, I wish I had that much funds.. but then there is another DAC coming out sometime in March, which again will be like the size of Compass, although more costlier, and will be based on the DSP1 and 2 PCM 1704 chips – I think I’ll be heading for that…


----------



## dwong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now this intrigues me greatly.......I need some closed back cans so I can listen at the cottage without bugging everyone else (at night anyway)._

 

Although they are closed clans, the D2000's still leak out sound, enough for me to avoid bringing them to quiet libraries with people around.


----------



## sandchak

For those in hurry, I have another piece of news..

 Posts will be closed during Chinese New year - Basically from the 22nd Jan till the 10th Feb - so there will be NO shipment of Compass during that period..

 whatever shipping will be done before that - hopefully Compass will be ready for shipping around 19th - 20th January (as per his plans) ..

 Also for guys thinking about OPAMPS etc from that part of the world..

 I am trying to get whatever info I can so so that I get my Compass before that !!

 PS. I must say, he has done a great Job with Compass - it Looks great - very audiophile IMHO.. Hope it sounds as good..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dwong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Although they are closed clans, the D2000's still leak out sound, enough for me to avoid bringing them to quiet libraries with people around._

 

Hi,
 I think the same thing that makes the Denons possibly the most comfortable can in the world might make them leak a "little" more than others, like Beyers. They do not have much "clamp" pressure on your head. This with the pads make them Uber comfortable. Additionally, the cups ring a little because they are thin. I think you could get a slight leak thru the cup itself. The Mods should help with that.


----------



## mbd2884

Haha, I'm with you Sandchak, I'm right in the middle with money saved for upgrade.

 This compass sounds like the perfect thing for me, wait for the review. If good, will jump on this fast.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha, I'm with you Sandchak, I'm right in the middle with money saved for upgrade.

 This compass sounds like the perfect thing for me, wait for the review. If good, will jump on this fast._

 

soon Currawong and Peete should be coming up with their reviews on Compass - cant get better than them..


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_soon Currawong and Peete should be coming up with their reviews on Compass - cant get better than them.._

 

Oh dear, but how soon is soon! Before the shipping blackout for Chinese New Year? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am looking forward to the impressions of this, it looks like awfully good stuff for the price.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh dear, but how soon is soon! Before the shipping blackout for Chinese New Year? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am looking forward to the impressions of this, it looks like awfully good stuff for the price._

 

Well even if he is able to ship on 16th ( which I think is hoping for much, although you never know) it wont reach either Peete or Currawong before 21st or 22nd.. I don't know, its going to be tough to get the reviews before the shipping blackout.. although I am sure the finished pics are going to be up on his website in a day or two..(as a consolation maybe..)


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Posts will be closed during Chinese New year - Basically from the 22nd Jan till the 10th Feb_

 

18 day Party!!! Happy year of the OX. Hope this year bodes well for Discrete OpAmps!!


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well even if he is able to ship on 16th ( which I think is hoping for much, although you never know) it wont reach either Peete or Currawong before 21st or 22nd.. I don't know, its going to be tough to get the reviews before the shipping blackout.. although I am sure the finished pics are going to be up on his website in a day or two..(as a consolation maybe..)_

 

I suspect you're right. If Audio-GD will be "at work" during that period then I suppose that just means they can keep building more of these things to have ready when shipping is open again.


----------



## tea-head

FWIW, King Wa mailed me to say he is burning in units and expects shipping between 15th and 20th of Jan...

 t


----------



## tea-head

A little OT, but what Mogami cable are you using? Thanks.

 t


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tea-head* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A little OT, but what Mogami cable are you using? Thanks.

 t_

 

You talkin' to me?

 You talkin' to me?

 Mogami 2534

 Has anyone seen the Final look? I mean a finished Producton looking Photo, not sketch?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone seen the Final look? I mean a finished Producton looking Photo, not sketch?_

 

Well, to be honest, both Yes and No, all that can be said is there were couple of things like the front dials and switches yet to reach, I guess without which he wouldn't have posted the pics, and if everything has come in, the actual finished Compass picture should be up on his web in a day or two..


----------



## mbd2884

Oh man, I am just itching to just send the payment now to get it shipped on the 20th.

 Patience, must wait for review. Can't wait for some pics also.

 BTW for the AD900 with 35 ohm, and 100db/mw, the 14 gain would be best?

 Arrgh!


----------



## tea-head

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone seen the Final look? I mean a finished Producton looking Photo, not sketch?_

 

Thanks, Les...for Mogami ref.

 I saw pics without knobs...black chassis and front/back plates...so far very nice...he said they will have Moon opamp installed...

 t


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tea-head* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Les...for Mogami ref.

 I saw pics without knobs...black chassis and front/back plates...so far very nice...he said they will have Moon opamp installed...

 t_

 


 Don't be teasing us, post those PIX!


----------



## tea-head

Les,

 KingWa asked me not to post...I guess he wants all to see it with knobs, not half dressed...sorry


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tea-head* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Les,

 KingWa asked me not to post...I guess he wants all to see it with knobs, not half dressed...sorry_

 


 Don't Tase Me Bro'!!

 Errr, I mean

 Don't Tease Me Bro'!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_18 day Party!!! Happy year of the OX. Hope this year bodes well for Discrete OpAmps!!_

 

Makes our 1 day celebration seem like a rip off...in any event I don't think my liver could stand a 18 day party...maybe 25 years ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Head Fi brethren......

 I'll try and get the review done as quickly as I can guys but I figure I'll need at least 3-5 days to run the Compass through it's paces and then do various config/rig comparisons....these things take some time. Using the same Ref CD rotation for the duration is a must and I tend to listen to whole CD's rather than single tracks as it allows me to forget about searching for the next song and simply listen for a good 45 minutes straight. In any event I'll be thorough with it and will include lots of pics of the internals and externals (new Cam for XMAS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 I asked Kingwa to have a least 100 hours on mine before shipping ...that way it should be burned in fully after 3 days here running 24/7 with my fav test/cooker disc.

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Actually, the shipping blackout may turn out to be a blessing, as it would give ample time to Peete, Currawong and maybe others too, to do a thorough review of the Compass, than a hurried one.. which in turn would give folks on the forum enough time to make a sound decision on the Compass, instead of purchasing it at a rush.. thats my opinion..


----------



## les_garten

Couple of quick questions. How do you use the Line in? 

 Is that what the Bypass button is for on the front?

 What is the delivered price to the US?

 How long will the promotional prices be in effect?

 Are there pictures which show the jumper positions for changing Sound Character?


----------



## sandchak

Your question 1 is interesting, because in his diagram, there is nothing that says line in, I mean in front there is only USB, Coax and Optical.. I really need to ask Kingwa about that.. As far as I have read, the Bypass switch will completely separate the Dac from amp - maybe thats when the line in comes to play..

 Cost I assume the final weight (packed) has not been mentioned, so I guess it should be USD258 + 50 (thats if it below or at 4Kg) if it goes above that, say 4.5Kg, catch around USD5-10.. So max I think it should be between USD308-315 - shipped to USA..

 Pictures of jumpers and Compass as such - We are still waiting ..


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, the shipping blackout may turn out to be a blessing, as it would give ample time to Peete, Currawong and maybe others too, to do a thorough review of the Compass, than a hurried one.. which in turn would give folks on the forum enough time to make a sound decision on the Compass, instead of purchasing it at a rush.. thats my opinion.._

 

I agree, if they get theirs before the blackout then the rest of us can see what their impressions are and decide whether we want to make a hurried decision to buy it right after the blackout 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the delivered price to the US?_

 

I could be mistaken but I thought $258 included shipping, but that seems crazy, so I am probably mistaken.

 (edit: I am based on the post above... I wasn't sure if the $50 was in addition or not but that makes sense)

  Quote:


 Are there pictures which show the jumper positions for changing Sound Character? 
 

I'd like to know where those are as well, how easy they are to get to, etc. It has a selectable gain too and I'd like to know the same about the position for those jumpers since they're not connected via a switch (although certainly something modders could change).

 Since there's only one RCA (analog) input, I suspect pressing bypass is meant to disable the DAC and receive the analog signal from the RCA input. No selecting needed then since that would be the only function of the bypass switch. Of course, is there a way to shut off the headphone amp section if you're just using the RCA line out from the DAC?


----------



## sandchak

Actually, in the circuit diagram on his site, the jumper settings are shown - maybe that will help..


----------



## csroc

I don't see them on the circuit boards with a quick look, but I'm just wondering how easy it will be to get to them in the case. Not a big deal either way IMO, just curiosity


----------



## sandchak

Its on the Headphone amp circuit diagram and not on the Board (sorry) - hard to make out from that picture - I think he decided to put these jumpers after the initial board was made.. but in any case, I think its going to be as easy as changing opamps, if not easier..


----------



## les_garten

Next question: Jumpers

 Are the jumpers on the DAC board or on the Headamp board?

 Will they affect the sound of the Head amp out and the DAC out.

 Will they affect the sound of the line in (analog) in Bypass mode?

 Can the Line in(analog) signal, go to the DAC out(Analog) jacks?


----------



## sandchak

If you look at the circuit diagrams on his website, it seems all jumpers are there on the Headphone amp board, so I don't think it would effect the DAC or line in - unless you are using the headphones.. thats what I personally think..


----------



## dBs

I cant wait to hear word on this DAC. Im currently in the pickle of DAC or Amp since I cant have both so Im leaning toward this and using its amp component until such time as I can afford to build the SOHA II. DIY is no problem for me so it will come down to how this compares to DIY projects. I wont get the money to do either until next week anyway so take your time with those tests =D


----------



## scootermafia

On the website:

 " The initial promotional price is fixed at USD250 without shipping charge (this price will be effective several months), which will include one separate OPA (customers can choose MOON or EARTH , since the sound signature of Compass will be "Neutral", SUN may not be a good choice ), the package will also include one power cable, one USB cable, and one optical cable. The shipping charge will vary for different countries. Compass will be available for sale in approximately 30 days."

 I'd say that means $258 including shipping since Kingwa says it right there.


----------



## scootermafia

Although, that could mean $250 before shipping, the wording is confusing. I think "without" means "before". I guess $308 then. Darn. No free lunch.


----------



## csroc

I agree it's confusing. $258 or $308, if it's as good as it should be, I'll probably be getting one. Doh!


----------



## sandchak

I don't think inclusive shipping is mentioned anywhere, there is also a separate section on top:

 2, What will the shipping cost be, and what mode of shipping will be used?

 I think that answers all shipping queries..

 " The initial promotional price is fixed at USD250 without shipping charge..."

 Should have worded that more specifically - instead of "without" - should have used "excluding" .. My fault since I helped him in translating the page.. I'll ask him to make it more clear..


----------



## csroc

Making that correction would clear it up for sure


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think inclusive shipping is mentioned anywhere, there is also a separate section on top:

 2, What will the shipping cost be, and what mode of shipping will be used?

 I think that answers all shipping queries..

 " The initial promotional price is fixed at USD250 without shipping charge..."

 Should have worded that more specifically - instead of "without" - should have used "excluding" .. My fault since I helped him in translating the page.. I'll ask him to make it more clear.._

 

The initial promotional price is fixed at USD250 plus applicable shipping charges

 The initial promotional price is fixed at USD250 plus shipping charges to destination


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On the website:

 " The initial promotional price is fixed at USD250 without shipping charge (this price will be effective several months), which will include one separate OPA (customers can choose MOON or EARTH , since the sound signature of Compass will be "Neutral", SUN may not be a good choice ), the package will also include one power cable, one USB cable, and one optical cable. The shipping charge will vary for different countries. Compass will be available for sale in approximately 30 days."

 I'd say that means $258 including shipping since Kingwa says it right there._

 

No, the extra 8$ is because of the neutrik locking jack, the shipping costs considerably more than 8$ and depends on where you live.

 The website is more like a log atm, updates go to the top, "old developments" on the bottom.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The initial promotional price is fixed at USD258 plus applicable shipping charges

 OR

 The initial promotional price is fixed at USD258 plus shipping charges to destination_

 

Better still..
 Thanks Les..


----------



## Currawong

Kingwa sent me the pictures of the incomplete unit as well. He's going to try and get it to me before Chinese New Year as well. I'll get a review up ASAP, which will mean leaving it on 24/7 to burn in probably.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


 Kingwa sent me the pictures of the incomplete unit as well. He's going to try and get it to me before Chinese New Year as well. I'll get a review up ASAP, which will mean leaving it on 24/7 to burn in probably. 
 

Cant wait for the review, since I might going Denons soon, I would be glad if you could let us know your impressions of Compass with your Dennon D5000..




 DAC - Compass

 Comming Soon!

 The initial promotional price is fixed at USD258 Excluding shipping charge 


 The heading in Kingwa's website Compass Page - hope this clears any confusion..


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa sent me the pictures of the incomplete unit as well. He's going to try and get it to me before Chinese New Year as well. I'll get a review up ASAP, which will mean leaving it on 24/7 to burn in probably._

 

Would you be kind enough to upload the pics? It'd be a teaser.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moonboy403* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you be kind enough to upload the pics? It'd be a teaser. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No. He asked me not to.


----------



## mbd2884

When do you think Kingwa will upload a picture?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When do you think Kingwa will upload a picture?_

 

He's getting ready to sell it, so you could nderstand how he doesn't want to put out a Pic showing it with it's knobs missing. Once it's on the Internet, it is forever!! 

 Wanna see my Vanessa Hudgens Nude picture collection?


----------



## sandchak

I really feel, you should ask him directly, because if he has given a couple of people at least, as confirmed in the forum and you are interested like the rest, then I do not see any reason why he would refuse.. maybe he isnt just posting as yet because he doesnt have all the parts needed to make it look complete..

 Well, Les has a point too..


----------



## Currawong

Some more info: 

 The wires between the boards will be soldered in place, so my idea of having all the boards easily removable for repair/replacemnt is gone. However, Kingwa assures me that he makes pretty robust equipment, so it's not necessary. He was most concerned that using connectors would affect the sound quality. In the pictures he's using the same high-quality boards he uses in all his other gear, along with the same teflon-coated silver wire.

 The Compass by default will be tuned to sound neutral. People with very bright headphones, such as the SR80s can put a jumper in place on the HP amp to soften the sound a little.


----------



## Joeoboe

I just ordered my Compass from Kingwa. With shipping to the US and a 4 percent Paypal charge, the total came to 325.50.
 I presently have a Zero with HDAM, LT1364, Alps pot and aluminum Counterpoint knob driving my AKG K701s. I have over 400 hours on my present rig, so it will be an interesting comparison with the Compass.


----------



## sandchak

Ok, just found out, Compass net weight is 3.9KG, add the stuffs like power cables and other cables and it comes to more than 4.5KG packed - but it seems he is charging only for 4.5Kg..


----------



## csroc

It's looking good, I got some pics of it in my email today.

 Any idea when you'll get yours Joe?


----------



## sandchak

There are more updates on his website - as of today..

 The placement of jumpers seems to be addressed by the latest circuit board pictures..


----------



## les_garten

Hello,

 How many mw output?


----------



## csroc

The first section discussing prices is still a bit confusing (from what I've read the coax, power and OPA are included, so is he just showing how much you'd be saving?)

 Also I'm curious about the Super mode, I thought that was going to be a bypass switch but maybe I'm just not awake enough to make sense of it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 How many mw output?_

 

That would be interesting to know as well, I know he said the output is 8Vrms. I'm not too concerned, I'm sure it has enough juice.


----------



## mbd2884

I'm sold, sending in payment today.

 As for mw output, wouldn't worry, as he specifically designed this to be able to make K701 and HD650 shine.

 The aluminum casing sounds great also, sounds like it will look very professional. 
 - All aluminum chassis (Black). Dimensions: width 250mm, height 75mm and depth 290mm. Panel thicknesses 8mm

 Horray!


----------



## csroc

I hate being an early adopter, I'd like to hear what the first buyers think of this, although I am tempted to send money soon as well.

 Fortunately with all the testing they do you shouldn't have to worry about sending a defective one back to China!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The first section discussing prices is still a bit confusing (from what I've read the coax, power and OPA are included, so is he just showing how much you'd be saving?)_

 

Yes, the power cable is included - but its a stock cable - not the one Kingwa is talking about in what follows as special offer..

 The handcrafted power cable listed in his website costs 75, so I if you buy that cable with Compass you get USD15 discount.

 The OPA moon is also included, but if you buy extra OPAs you get at a discounted price..

 I think he had said optical cable will be included not the Canare Coaxial cables he sells separately..

 And Yes, the Super switch is the Bypass switch, the story goes, that when He heard the Compass with Bypass activated - his first impression was " SUPER".. so he decided to give it that name !!!


----------



## les_garten

Hello,
 Are there changeable OpAmps on the DAC and HeadAmp? I don't see where the HDAM OpAmps "Plug In"? The site says you can buy additioonal HDAMs for $20 but I don't see them plugged in or where they attach?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,
 Are there changeable OpAmps on the DAC and HeadAmp? I don't see where the HDAM OpAmps "Plug In"? The site says you can buy additioonal HDAMs for $20 but I don't see them plugged in or where they attach?_

 

There is NO opamp in the Headamp, it is discrete, one dual opamp that can be installed in DAC section, the reason he is offering opamps is, if you want to try the other opamps like EATRH OR SUN .. MOON Comes with Compass as default..


----------



## dwong

The OPA-Moon that it comes with, is this connected to the DAC component or the headamp component?

 EDIT: Sorry, above question was answered.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is NO opamp in the Headamp, it is discrete, one dual opamp that can be installed in DAC section, the reason he is offering opamps is, if you want to try the other opamps like EATRH OR SUN .. MOON Comes with Compass as default.._

 

I don't see the connector?

 The paragraph below still confuses me: 

 The headphone amp inside Compass not only inside headphone amp. When users use the "Super” mode, Compass will separate the DAC and headphone section completely. In this mode, a separate transistors buffer for the headphone amp input, the buffer can keep a low impedance feed to headphone amp, even when users use different signal sources. Furthermore, it will also improve the DAC feed to headphone amp.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't see the connector?

 The paragraph below still confuses me: 

 The headphone amp inside Compass not only inside headphone amp. When users use the "Super” mode, Compass will separate the DAC and headphone section completely. In this mode, a separate transistors buffer for the headphone amp input, the buffer can keep a low impedance feed to headphone amp, even when users use different signal sources. Furthermore, it will also improve the DAC feed to headphone amp._

 

SEE THE NEW DAC BOARD PICTURES UPLOADED ON HIS WEBSITE....


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SEE THE NEW DAC BOARD PICTURES UPLOADED ON HIS WEBSITE...._

 

Ahhh, I've looked at them, a number of times...

 Nevermind, it's not plugged in, I just fouund the socket


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's looking good, I got some pics of it in my email today.

 Any idea when you'll get yours Joe?_

 

Not sure when mine will arrive. I was told it ship before the 20th... I hope this thing sounds as good as it looks!


----------



## sandchak

go straight down the "gnd" on the top of the board, when you somewhere in the middle of the board , you will see 8 dip socket - For opamps..


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahhh, I've looked at them, a number of times...

 Nevermind, it's not plugged in, I just fouund the socket_

 

you said you dont see the " Connector"...NOT THE OPAMP !!!


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And Yes, the Super switch is the Bypass switch, the story goes, that when He heard the Compass with Bypass activated - his first impression was " SUPER".. so he decided to give it that name !!!_

 

Haha, that's amusing. Almost sounds like he's saying it sounds better with an analog source (DAC bypass enabled) than it does if the source is digital. Somehow I doubt that. Funny either way though!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha, that's amusing. Almost sounds like he's saying it sounds better with an analog source (DAC bypass enabled) than it does if the source is digital. Somehow I doubt that. Funny either way though!_

 

What he meant as I understood, the headamp, exceeded his expectations.. I mean bypass DAC, would have thrown light on the quality of the Headamp on its own..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha, that's amusing. Almost sounds like he's saying it sounds better with an analog source (DAC bypass enabled) than it does if the source is digital. Somehow I doubt that. Funny either way though!_

 

*He's not going to like my analysis of that statement.*

 Hmmm,, actually that would give me cause to worry. 

 That means when he uses the Sources DAC instead of his DAC the sound is improved??

 How else could you interpret those findings.

 If analog is input, that means DAC was done elsewhere.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*He's not going to like my analysis of that statement.*

 Hmmm,, actually that would give me cause to worry. 

 That means when he uses the Sources DAC instead of his DAC the sound is improved??

 How else could you interpret those findings.

 If analog is input, that means DAC was done elsewhere._

 

The difference is that he was looking at the headamp - and you are looking at the DAC..so I am not surprised that you are saying something that he might not have meant. How else could you know the quality of the headamp on itself, without bypassing the DAC.

 I think it would better of listening the Compass or the reviews, than analyzing an exclamation comment.. I think its getting too complicated by getting into a persons mind on what and why he says.. lets listen to compass when it arrives and the reviews, and then lets address our worries and concerns about Compass..

 Btw, the findings are yours... not his..

 meaning - he found the headamp exceeded his expectations - your conclusion the Dac must be bad..


----------



## mbd2884

I don't know why anyone would be so critical right now.

 He's selling us a DAC/AMP combo using the same design as his DAC-100, which has already been proven to be a great DAC, on top of that, he's implemented various technologies he developed he normally would have charged as extra for nothing. 

 He's listened to the Head-Fiers here, he has obviously shown with his updates that he is aware of their concerns and addressed them.

 Why are you being so critical and well being a jerk about it? 

 Its a 250$ DAC/AMP, and arguably the DAC alone he could charge for 250, instead you're getting an AMP with it, and so many high quality parts, with more inputs than any DAC/AMP I've seen of this quality.

 The KECES 152 which is probably the closest one doesn't have all the concerns of Head-Fiers here addressed and its only USB input. The KECES 152 costs 475$, not including shipping.

 So honestly, if you are so concerned and critical, then just don't buy it. 

 Why you are griefing Kingwa considering he is DOING YOU A FAVOR, is beyond me, regardless if he is getting more attention for it or not. His products are good enough to stand on their own merit, he doesn't need to do this, would think you would be more appreciative.

 I can say I am truly excited about this. I think the moon OP will work wonderfully with my AD900. I love that he made it so we can choose the 14 or 20 gain, I will go with 14. If it wasn't for this, I would be spending 250$ on the KECES 151 DAC, plus shipping and then another 150$ on the Little Dot II, plus shipping, or the KECES 152 for 475, plus shipping. So just from a financial stand point, its an incredible deal. Most of all, I love that the Compass has been tailored the needs, requests and desires of Head-Fiers and their headphones.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The difference is that he was looking at the headamp - and you are looking at the DAC..so I am not surprised that you are saying something that he might not have meant. How else could you know the quality of the headamp on itself, without bypassing the DAC.

 I think it would better of listening the Compass or the reviews, than analyzing an exclamation comment.. I think its getting too complicated by getting into a persons mind on what and why he says.. lets listen to compass when it arrives and the reviews, and then lets address our worries and concerns about Compass..

 Btw, the findings are yours... not his..

 meaning - he found the headamp exceeded his expectations - your conclusion the Dac must be bad.._

 

""""And Yes, the Super switch is the Bypass switch, the story goes, that when He heard the Compass with Bypass activated - his first impression was " SUPER".. so he decided to give it that name !!!""""""

 OK, I have a Compass with SPDIF feed to it from my CD player. I am also feeding it from my CD player via Line in.

 If I hit the Bypass and sound improves...

 My assessment is that the DAC of the CD is better.

 If you use the Bypass, DAC has to be done elsewhere. The only thing Bypass does is substitute a different DAC basically. Is this not correct?

 The Headamp accepts an analog feed, correct? Either thru the onboard DAC or the Line in, which takes analog from a different DAC.

 I must be missing something here. If my logic is flawed, I'm interested in hearing where i went astray.


----------



## haloxt

Captain obvious, consider the fact that audio-gd has many different DAC's.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_""""And Yes, the Super switch is the Bypass switch, the story goes, that when He heard the Compass with Bypass activated - his first impression was " SUPER".. so he decided to give it that name !!!""""""

 OK, I have a Compass with SPDIF feed to it from my CD player. I am also feeding it from my CD player via Line in.

 If I hit the Bypass and sound improves...

 My assessment is that the DAC of the CD is better.

 If you use the Bypass, DAC has to be done elsewhere. The only thing Bypass does is substitute a different DAC basically. Is this not correct?

 The Headamp accepts an analog feed, correct? Either thru the onboard DAC or the Line in, which takes analog from a different DAC.

 I must be missing something here. If my logic is flawed, I'm interested in hearing where i went astray._

 

Ok, let me give it a try. The way I interpret is that he probably used some of his far more expensive gear upstream. So he was probably using a DAC that's at least 4 times the price of the Compass. Now, when he listens and bypasses the DAC and is pleasantly surprised by the result you could interpret it as the DAC being of lesser quality, but a far more logical conclusion would be that the Amp section is of a quality Kingwa did not expect beforehand. In other words, the Amp section will probably upscale very well. To me that's good news.
 Anyways, I'm expecting the DAC section to be very good as well (certainly for the price). Kingwa has already developed a considerable number of audiophile DACs and is certainly looking to increase his reputation in the hifiworld. He would never allow the Compass to be equiped with just a mediocre DAC.


----------



## mbd2884

What part of it exceeded his expectations do you not understand.

 That's why he described it as Super. Its so simple, what's hard to understand here?

 Don't buy it if you are going to get an ulcer over this.

 He's already stated that its the same DAC design as the DAC-100, so if you don't like it, don't buy it. What the hell, honestly.

 You're being a little child, someone gives you a half off price on something and now crying cause you want a 800 dollar equipment for the same price instead.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_""""And Yes, the Super switch is the Bypass switch, the story goes, that when He heard the Compass with Bypass activated - his first impression was " SUPER".. so he decided to give it that name !!!""""""

 OK, I have a Compass with SPDIF feed to it from my CD player. I am also feeding it from my CD player via Line in.

 If I hit the Bypass and sound improves...

 My assessment is that the DAC of the CD is better.

 If you use the Bypass, DAC has to be done elsewhere. The only thing Bypass does is substitute a different DAC basically. Is this not correct?

 The Headamp accepts an analog feed, correct? Either thru the onboard DAC or the Line in, which takes analog from a different DAC.

 I must be missing something here. If my logic is flawed, I'm interested in hearing where i went astray._

 

I am not falling for the bait this time, Les ..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know why anyone would be so critical right now.
_

 

This forum is about Critique. I am asking questions, why don't people like questions? I am also asking for clarifications. This seems to bother some.

  Quote:


 He's listened to the Head-Fiers here, he has obviously shown with his updates that he is aware of their concerns and addressed them.

 Why are you being so critical and well being a jerk about it? 
 

I'm seeking clarifications, I'm asking questions. this seems to bother some. Again, this forum is about Critique.

 <<<<SNIP>>>>

  Quote:


 
 So honestly, if you are so concerned and critical, then just don't buy it. 
 

Ahh, that's what I'm trying to figure out.

  Quote:


 Why you are griefing Kingwa considering he is DOING YOU A FAVOR, is beyond me, regardless if he is getting more attention for it or not. His products are good enough to stand on their own merit, he doesn't need to do this, would think you would be more appreciative. 
 

He's not doing anybody a favor, he is engaging in commerce (not that there's anything wrong with that), that's all, plain and simple. Here we go with the Altruistic motives again. Why are questions "griefing" him. Is that really a word, "griefing? I am asking questions. I am asking questions related to statements made. When a statement is made and it sounds like hype, expect it to be questioned. 

 And saying if you are going to question things, just don't buy! Who thinks that statement makes sense?? 

 NO SOUP FOR YOU!! (in my best Soup-NAZI imitation voice)

 NEXT!!

 Sheesh!!


----------



## mbd2884

Its one thing to question and critique.

 Its another to be a jerk. Honestly you sound a like crying little baby who never learned to be appreciative. Its all you've done throughout this entire topic, you've been crying, whining and accusing without any reason other than it seems, to be a jerk. You fail to read, you infer opinions because of your inability to read. Most of the posts here have been clear and simple, yet you have had to make it so complicated, and then try to lock onto one small statement, out of context and whine like a b*tch about it.

 You may notice there have been many questions and critiques in this topic, but everyone else is able to be mature about it and not cry like an infant.

 And no, he doesn't need your business les. He's already proven himself in this business and quite well known. He doesn't need to prove anything to you, he already has an impressive line up of DAC, Amps, Pre-Amps and other technologies he developed himself.

 So yes, while he is benefiting from giving us a promotional price, in many ways he is in fact being altruistic. No one has to sell products at such a discount to gain some attention. 

 Go cry in a corner


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know why anyone would be so critical right now.

 He's selling us a DAC/AMP combo using the same design as his DAC-100, which has already been proven to be a great DAC, on top of that, he's implemented various technologies he developed he normally would have charged as extra for nothing. 

 He's listened to the Head-Fiers here, he has obviously shown with his updates that he is aware of their concerns and addressed them.

 Why are you being so critical and well being a jerk about it? 

 Its a 250$ DAC/AMP, and arguably the DAC alone he could charge for 250, instead you're getting an AMP with it, and so many high quality parts, with more inputs than any DAC/AMP I've seen of this quality.

 The KECES 152 which is probably the closest one doesn't have all the concerns of Head-Fiers here addressed and its only USB input. The KECES 152 costs 475$, not including shipping.

 So honestly, if you are so concerned and critical, then just don't buy it. 

 Why you are griefing Kingwa considering he is DOING YOU A FAVOR, is beyond me, regardless if he is getting more attention for it or not. His products are good enough to stand on their own merit, he doesn't need to do this, would think you would be more appreciative.

 I can say I am truly excited about this. I think the moon OP will work wonderfully with my AD900. I love that he made it so we can choose the 14 or 20 gain, I will go with 14. If it wasn't for this, I would be spending 250$ on the KECES 151 DAC, plus shipping and then another 150$ on the Little Dot II, plus shipping, or the KECES 152 for 475, plus shipping. So just from a financial stand point, its an incredible deal. Most of all, I love that the Compass has been tailored the needs, requests and desires of Head-Fiers and their headphones._

 

I think everyone is getting a bit worked up. I think it's a strange way to label that switch because assuming the DAC in the Compass is fine (and I'm sure it is) then a label like that could throw off some people. I don't personally care although I would not have labeled it that if I were doing it.

 It certainly isn't going to put me off from buying one either.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, let me give it a try. The way I interpret is that he probably used some of his far more expensive gear upstream. So he was probably using a DAC that's at least 4 times the price of the Compass. Now, when he listens and bypasses the DAC and is pleasantly surprised by the result you could interpret it as the DAC being of lesser quality, but a far more logical conclusion would be that the Amp section is of a quality Kingwa did not expect beforehand. In other words, the Amp section will probably upscale very well. To me that's good news.
 Anyways, I'm expecting the DAC section to be very good as well (certainly for the price). Kingwa has already developed a considerable number of audiophile DACs and is certainly looking to increase his reputation in the hifiworld. He would never allow the Compass to be equiped with just a mediocre DAC._

 


 Hi,
 First, Thanx for an answer rather than a flame attack for being the Cad that I am and asking a question or two. My degrees are all in Science, so when i see flawed logic in testing, I say hold on there, how, what, where, and why. If you hit the bypass button, the Headamp stays the same and the processing engine is changed. If your next statement is, look how good that Headamp sounds!! I'm going to raise my hand. I'm going to point out that the processor changed.

 I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO EXPLAIN YOUR STATEMENT. I'm going to ask how you backed up your statement and your test methodology.

 I have to admit, it is difficult to test the HA SQ in isolation so that you can try to judge it on it's own merits. The only way i can think how to do it is with a lot of equipment that I was intimately familiar with. That is most likely what he means, but you can't deny that when the bypass switch is hit, a different "everything" is substituted for signal processing.

 QUESTIONS, QUESTIONS, WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' QUESTIONS!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its one thing to question and critique.

 Its another to be a jerk. Honestly you sound a like crying little baby who never learned to be appreciative. Its all you've done throughout this entire topic, you've been crying, whining and accusing without any reason other than it seems, to be a jerk. You fail to read, you infer opinions because of your inability to read. Most of the posts here have been clear and simple, yet you have had to make it so complicated, and then try to lock onto one small statement, out of context and whine like a b*tch about it.

 You may notice there have been many questions and critiques in this topic, but everyone else is able to be mature about it and not cry like an infant.

 And no, he doesn't need your business les. He's already proven himself in this business and quite well known. He doesn't need to prove anything to you, he already has an impressive line up of DAC, Amps, Pre-Amps and other technologies he developed himself.

 So yes, while he is benefiting from giving us a promotional price, in many ways he is in fact being altruistic. No one has to sell products at such a discount to gain some attention. 

 Go cry in a corner_

 

WOW, you cut me to the quick. Call me more names!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think everyone is getting a bit worked up. I think it's a strange way to label that switch because assuming the DAC in the Compass is fine (and I'm sure it is) then a label like that could throw off some people. I don't personally care although I would not have labeled it that if I were doing it.

 It certainly isn't going to put me off from buying one either._

 

DAC Bypass would be good. 

 But what's in a name except maybe suggesting something about what the button does.


----------



## mbd2884

Notice none of us had to have everything spelled out to like you do.

 Maybe instead of whining you should try and use your brain sometime.

 I'm done, I ranted here because I am so sick of reading your whining complaints in these posts. And most of it, its just because you are unable to read and try to infer negatives, as if to just be a jerk. And then you try and take some sort of pride as if you are doing everyone a favor by being hyper critical.


----------



## csroc

That was my original point les, that name may be suggestive of something that wasn't intended. Bypass, DAC Bypass, Analog Input... anything like that would probably have been the wiser choice


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Notice none of us had to have everything spelled out to like you do.

 Maybe instead of whining you should try and use your brain sometime.

 I'm done, I ranted here because I am so sick of reading your whining complaints in these posts. And most of it, its just because you are unable to read and try to infer negatives, as if to just be a jerk. And then you try and take some sort of pride as if you are doing everyone a favor by being hyper critical._

 


 Ahhhh Yes, YES, I'm loving it, more, More, Insult me more!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That was my original point les, that name may be suggestive of something that wasn't intended. Bypass, DAC Bypass, Analog Input... anything like that would probably have been the wiser choice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Won't be an issue till you try to sell it and have to explain what it does. And the obvious subsequent question of, "why did they name it like that"?


----------



## csroc

There is definitely going to be a bit of story telling in that case les. Hopefully people will believe it!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 First, Thanx for an answer rather than a flame attack for being the Cad that I am and asking a question or two. My degrees are all in Science, so when i see flawed logic in testing, I say hold on there, how, what, where, and why. If you hit the bypass button, the Headamp stays the same and the processing engine is changed. If your next statement is, look how good that Headamp sounds!! I'm going to raise my hand. I'm going to point out that the processor changed.

 I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO EXPLAIN YOUR STATEMENT. I'm going to ask how you backed up your statement and your test methodology.

 I have to admit, it is difficult to test the HA SQ in isolation so that you can try to judge it on it's own merits. The only way i can think how to do it is with a lot of equipment that I was intimately familiar with. That is most likely what he means, but you can't deny that when the bypass switch is hit, a different "everything" is substituted for signal processing.

 QUESTIONS, QUESTIONS, WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' QUESTIONS!_

 

Yeah well, I'm a fully qualified science guy myself. A few months away from a PhD in biology. And it won't help you one bit when your dealing with audiophile logic. A degree in psychology would be much better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In my view you understand it correctly, the processing engine changes. As I see it, he changes it for a superior processing engine (he wouldn't use an inferior one, now would he?. His pleasant surprise is due to the extent that he notices that the superior sound that derives from the other source is still delivered through the amp to the headphones. In other words, he is hearing the true capabilities of the amp.

 But please, let's stop reading way too much into this single statement. Let's wait for the thing to be available for review. And if you have faith enough in the product to actually buy it, let your own ears be the judge. That's what I will be doing.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah well, I'm a fully qualified science guy myself. A few months away from a PhD in biology. And it won't help you one bit when your dealing with audiophile logic. A degree in psychology would be much better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In my view you understand it correctly, the processing engine changes. As I see it, he changes it for a superior processing engine (he wouldn't use an inferior one, now would he?. His pleasant surprise is due to the extent that he notices that the superior sound that derives from the other source is still delivered through the amp to the headphones. In other words, he is hearing the true capabilities of the amp.

 But please, let's stop reading way too much into this single statement. Let's wait for the thing to be available for review. And if you have faith enough in the product to actually buy it, let your own ears be the judge. That's what I will be doing._

 

100% Agreed. Especially about the Psychology statement. Marketing is an endeavour in Psychology n'est-ce pas? ?


----------



## zac_in_ak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Let's wait for the thing to be available for review. And if you have faith enough in the product to actually buy it, let your own ears be the judge. That's what I will be doing._

 

AMEN! lets not get bent out of shape for a product that no one has gotten there hands on yet. When we get some reviews here we can better judge this product.


----------



## sandchak

OK, I think I have something to say..

 If it makes sense to you, please let me know Les..

 From the horses mouth : At USD258, I hope people are not excpecting the best DAC - Headphone Combo in the world.. BUT, Compass has the ability, when hooked up to a reference DAC of USD1000 value and a transport of very High grade, in the SUPER MODE to listen through the headamp and believe me it sounds super..
 Dont look Compass only as a Box, but the ability to be a headphone amp, when you upgrade to a higher quality DAC + Source..

 Full Funtions. point number 5, in his website :

 Apart from the headphone amp inside Compass being very good by itself, when used in the “Super Mode”, Compass will separate the DAC and headphone section completely. In this mode users can input very high-end analogue signal through the headphone.

 So Yes, through Reference DAC costing USD1000, it sounded SUPER - and SUPER was written because the Compass Had the ability to produce Superb sound through Headphones in the Bypass mode...

 So yes, it is true that in Bypass mode it sounded better - But it is also YES, that it was used with a Reference DAC and transport.

 expect Compass DAC the quality of DAC 1 and Headamp maybe even better than ST3..


----------



## haloxt

WHAT ARE YOU SOME KIND OF "SUPER" ADVERTISER? hahahaha (/sarcasm off


----------



## sandchak

No, I am as keen as anyone to find answers myself, the best way I feel to do that is to directly approach the person concerned - I guess that would be the hard way - the easiest way would just pass a comment..

 Sarcasms aside, I am myself very keen to find out why super and I waiting for his reply..


----------



## haloxt

I was making fun of someone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 btw, it's just a name! don't worry about it. but if les garten is getting a compass he should seriously ask kingwa to customize his with a new label name "Disconnect-amp-from-dac-but-does-not-necessarily-mean-dac-is-inferior-to-cd-player-dac-switch"

 I just sent payment for compass, can't wait ^^.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, I think I have something to say..

 If it makes sense to you, please let me know Les..

 From the horses mouth : At USD258, I hope people are not excpecting the best DAC - Headphone Combo in the world for $258. BUT, Compass has the ability, when hooked up to a reference DAC of USD1000 value and a transport of very High grade, in the SUPER MODE to listen through the headamp and believe me it sounds super..
 Dont look Compass only as a Box, but the ability to be a headphone amp, when you upgrade to a higher quality DAC + Source.._

 

Sandeep, you should disclose that the following Paragraph that you site has been edited in the last hour on Audio-Gd's website.

  Quote:


 Full Funtions. point number 5, in his website :

 Apart from the headphone amp inside Compass being very good by itself, when used in the “Super Mode”, Compass will separate the DAC and headphone section completely. In this mode users can input very high-end analogue signal through the headphone. 
 

 Quote:


 
 So Yes, through Reference DAC costing USD1000, it sounded SUPER - and SUPER was written because the Compass Had the ability to produce Superb sound through Headphones in the Bypass mode...

 So yes, it is true that in Bypass mode it sounded better - But it is also YES, that it was used with a Reference DAC and transport.

 expect Compass DAC the quality of DAC 1 and Headamp maybe even better than ST3.. 
 

sandchak: Thanx for the reply!

 I never said I was expecting the best DAC/HA combo in the world for $258. I will tell you that I am trying to figure out if Audio-gd makes the best one in this price Range though. That's what this is all about to me. NOTHING ELSE.

 I have a mod'd Zero and a Yulong DAH1 Mark, a DV 337SE, LD MK V and am buying a NorthStar M192, so I understand about the DAC and AMP being separate.

 This clarifies or expands, or justifies, or explains the statement. Basically it's Marketing Hype. We all understand that. He's got a Bypass button that can bring in an Analog source bypassing the onboard DAC, we like that. I think the claims that that button when engaged proved how good his HA is, goes beyond the pale.

 I never said anywhere that what he was offering for "X" amount of money, should be like $800 as mentioned. But since that has been brought up, it has been mentioned today and in the past, that it is worth much more than the $258. I never made those statements, but they were made in this thread about a get it now kinda deal before the price skyrockets. 

 I've only sought answers to questions, and any hype had to be clarified. This is a forum, and you can't run the hype stuff here and expect it to go unquestioned. As some may have noticed, I can be called all the names you want, and I'm still going to ask a question. And if a company is said to be "The mother Teresa of Electronics (I'm taking literary liberties here)" I might ask a few questions also.

 The guys who should be questioned are the ones who don't like to answer questions or be asked questions.

 This is all about whether this is the best product in that price Range. Simple!


----------



## sandchak

OK Les, I asked him why he used Super and Not Bypass..

 what he says and if I understand correctly is that, he did intend to use bypass, but in the case of Compass, when the switch is activated, it does not just bypass the DAC, because the DAC can be used as and output at the same time.
 So not to confuse the users, because bypass would mean only analogue signal, when actually the DAC can be used as output too, he decided to describe the two functions together as Super..

 So its the ability of Compass to do 2 functions together that made him choose Super and also so that it does not confuse users..

 I hope I made some sense..

 And yes Les, it has been edited and not re-edited because that portion maybe have been added this morning - or might have skipped my notice when I earlier edited the text, and its not a secret that I am helping him to edit the Compass section.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I am as keen as anyone to find answers myself, the best way I feel to do that is to directly approach the person concerned - I guess that would be the hard way - the easiest way would just pass a comment..

 Sarcasms aside, I am myself very keen to find out why super and I waiting for his reply.._

 

hat's not sarcasm, that's truth here. You are gathering info from the Manufacturer, and posting it here. You need to be prepared to answer questions, SUBJECTIVELY. If you pass on Hype, expect to explain it. If you weren't posting this, there would of course not be questions about your posts. 

 As the other poster and some previous posters have noted, when you post this info, DIRECTLY from Kingwa in a lot of instances, expect to be asked questions and make explanations. If you get defensive, people will wonder why? 

 I interpreted your "the easiest way would just pass a comment" jibe as a way to still say "Don't ask any questions" Just believe everything you hear.

 Thru Logical questions, I have "proven" that the Super button proves the DAC can be improved upon, not how good the HA sounds. I was flamed for pointing this out.


----------



## csroc

I was wondering if it could do that, very interesting. 

 I'm debating whether I want to wait for reviews or just go ahead and pay. Oh dear.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thru Logical questions, I have "proven" that the Super button proves the DAC can be improved upon, not how good the HA sounds. I was flamed for pointing this out._

 

Good job sherlock holmes. actually, you're wrong. people are flaming you because you made the stupid comment that the only way you can interpret the product information is that the "Sources DAC" sounds better.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hat's not sarcasm, that's truth here. You are gathering info from the Manufacturer, and posting it here. You need to be prepared to answer questions, SUBJECTIVELY. If you pass on Hype, expect to explain it. If you weren't posting this, there would of course not be questions about your posts. 

 As the other poster and some previous posters have noted, when you post this info, DIRECTLY from Kingwa in a lot of instances, expect to be asked questions and make explanations. If you get defensive, people will wonder why? 

 I interpreted your "the easiest way would just pass a comment" jibe as a way to still say "Don't ask any questions" Just believe everything you hear.

 Thru Logical questions, I have "proven" that the Super button proves the DAC can be improved upon, not how good the HA sounds. I was flamed for pointing this out._

 

Les,
 anybody can write to Kingwa, you chose not to, I chose to and pass what I get from him to the forum.

 That comment about passing comment was made because someone thought I was a super advertiser and had nothing to do with you..

 Again as usual like 2 days I am taking YOUR questions to Kingwa and letting you know the answers, you know its difficult to communicate with him but still I am - so thanks for the appreciation..

 Now again I took this question about why Super and not Bypass and I have relayed the answer to you..

 and honestly, no one has proven anything, neither you, nor me.. its about Compass, so let it hit the market, lets see the reviews.. and then lets decide if Super was such a blunder, at the moment and through Kingwas reply, its just a name given for a switch that does 2 functions..


----------



## csroc

There is definitely a bit of a language barrier in communicating with Kingwa but he is still very helpful and manages to get help with what I've asked about via email.

 My final thought on "super" is that it's an interesting choice, would not have been mine, but it really proves nothing about the performance of the DAC or headphone amp separately. Luckily since both can operate independently those who wish to test each component separately may do so.

 To buy now or to wait. That's what's really on my mind!


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is definitely a bit of a language barrier in communicating with Kingwa but he is still very helpful and manages to get help with what I've asked about via email.

 My final thought on "super" is that it's an interesting choice, would not have been mine, but it really proves nothing about the performance of the DAC or headphone amp separately. Luckily since both can operate independently those who wish to test each component separately may do so.

 To buy now or to wait. That's what's really on my mind! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I went and just bought it. As the alternative for me would be to get the KECES 151 + LD 2, or KECES 152. From the quick responses and attention to detail and constant updating to improve the sound to his standards, Kingwa has done nothing so far to lessen my confidence that he will ship a product to exceed my expectations.

 Its a tough decision, but good luck, haha


----------



## csroc

How did you pay for it? I presume he wants you to contact him before just up and sending payment (I'd be using PayPal).


----------



## haloxt

Yes, he needs to know country to add shipping and payment method to add 4% if paypal.


----------



## les_garten

Interestingly, I really like this product a lot. 

 That's why i'm watching this thread. I think Audio-gd has some of the nicest equipment out there at reasonable prices. I have never said otherwise. Very high quality stuff. At $258 this product looks to be a steal.

 This doesn't mean that I suspend reason, and don't look at things subjectively though.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was making fun of someone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw, it's just a name! don't worry about it. but if les garten is getting a compass he should seriously ask kingwa to customize his with a new label name "Disconnect-amp-from-dac-but-does-not-necessarily-mean-dac-is-inferior-to-cd-player-dac-switch"

 I just sent payment for compass, can't wait ^^._

 

Heh, actually Bypass would have worked perfectly for me...


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heh, actually Bypass would have worked perfectly for me..._

 

That label would definitely clarify everything


----------



## Currawong

I think he called the bypass "Super" mode because, if I have interpreted his English correctly, it doesn't just offer a bypass of the DAC allowing direct connection to the HP amp, but also switches in a dedicated buffer circuit for the HP amp (that is otherwise built into the DAC section) that improves the incoming signal.

 I think the confusion is from Kingwa wanting to tell us all the great things he's doing in the design.


----------



## sandchak

Ok, my good friend Kingwa, has asked me to post a message for him on the forum :

  Quote:


 *The initial promotional price will holding several months, so customers if never use our products, can waiting some time to read the customers review ,then decide purchase or not.* 
 

He wishes some users to review Compass, if the review is good, others including HIM will have the confidence to go ahead with the product - the last thing he wants is to cause his customers disappointment.

 If I can read between the lines of the rest he has written, he might even be contemplating to stop selling more Compass till reviews are out - to avoid any confusion..

 And some more updates on his web as of 01/12..


----------



## csroc

Yeah he really seems to be urging that in his emails to me about the Compass. He seems to want to let me wait for the initial reviews to come out. You don't hear something like that every day from a company selling a product!


----------



## bjojoj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've only sought answers to questions, and any hype had to be clarified. This is a forum, and you can't run the hype stuff here and expect it to go unquestioned. As some may have noticed, I can be called all the names you want, and I'm still going to ask a question. And if a company is said to be "The mother Teresa of Electronics (I'm taking literary liberties here)" I might ask a few questions also.

 The guys who should be questioned are the ones who don't like to answer questions or be asked questions.

 This is all about whether this is the best product in that price Range. Simple!_

 

I'd say your taking a wee bit more than literary liberties when stating that the company is said to be "The mother Teresa of Electronics". How would that statement hold up in a scientific context in terms of proof etc? Questions, remember?
 I myself tend to increase the amount of skepticism and critical viewing proportionately to the size (volume of sales, number of employees, marketshare etc.) of a company. Not in a linear fashion allower though, as there is a GREAT jump between a company that is listed on the stock exchange and one that isn't (in terms of my level of skepticism)!

 One huge company that is indeed projecting itself as a mother Teresa would be Monsanto, wouldn't you agree? Now, there's a company in which you could thrive in your critical viewing OF!

 Anyway, why don't we all try to relax a bit now, shallen't we? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Looking forward to the upcoming reviews!


 Regards,
 Björn-Olof, Sweden (no, we don't have penguins and do not manufacture wristwatches
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjojoj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd say your taking a wee bit more than literary liberties when stating that the company is said to be "The mother Teresa of Electronics". How would that statement hold up in a scientific context in terms of proof etc? Questions, remember?
 I myself tend to increase the amount of skepticism and critical viewing proportionately to the size (volume of sales, number of employees, marketshare etc.) of a company. Not in a linear fashion allower though, as there is a GREAT jump between a company that is listed on the stock exchange and one that isn't (in terms of my level of skepticism)!

 One huge company that is indeed projecting itself as a mother Teresa would be Monsanto, wouldn't you agree? Now, there's a company in which you could thrive in your critical viewing OF!

 Anyway, why don't we all try to relax a bit now, shallen't we? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking forward to the upcoming reviews!


 Regards,
 Björn-Olof, Sweden (no, we don't have penguins and do not manufacture wristwatches
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

When I am told that a company is "doing me a favor" then that statement invites a jibe, sorry but it just does. To me, that incredulous statement means nothing in response is "beyond the pale". There are virtually no limits to what would be appropriate. 

 How about this premise, our Alpha testing and feedback from potential buyers and some merely interested are doing the "Company a Favor". I can say that there was some pretty good editing of the Compass webpage after my comments yesterday for clarifications and corrections. An "off forum" feedback I gave was, from the statement that, separate boards wold make "board replacement easier". I pointed out that all the boards were hard wired to each other and that the boards cannot be just swapped out without PCB soldering experience. Not everyone can do that. If you look at the Audio-gd page it now extols the virtues of hardwired soldered connections and how this was done for SQ reasons. The "Super" Bullet item on the Compass page was also edited heavily yesterday. Those are good things, things are clearer.

 Monsanto, Monsanto. Not sure what that is about here, but...

 Having worked as a Paramedic in the Jefferson, Orleans, St Bernard, and St Charles Parish areas of Louisiana, having Hauled dead bodies out of Monsanto plants, I wold say i know a little bit about Monsanto. Not sure how it is relevant here though.

 But I think we would both agree, as would most prudent people, that Monsanto is not in the business of "doing us favors". Interesting that you helped me make my point so well. Companies help themselves. They are not altruistic. I agree with you there. If the marketing guy at Monsanto said, they were doing me a favor, I would raise my hand, and say WHAT!!

_WE ARE HELPING AUDIO-GD._

 We are assisting in Development, we are helping them make communications on their webpage accurate and clear, we are going to participate in Beta Testing. They are getting feedback from us and will use it to make their product better.

 The most obvious worry here is that if you are too close to a Manufacturer, can you be unbiased in your review? If you use the phrase, "My Good Friend Kingwa" will you be able to have credibility in an ostensibly unbiased review. This is not meant as a personal attack. I think this is a reasonable observation. We all hope the reviews are unbiased. It will do no good in the long run if it is not.

 I could do as a lot folks do and communicate with Audio-gd directly. that defeats the purpose of a forum. Open uncensored commentary helps us all, including the manufacturer. This forum is invaluable to Audio-gd. It is basically open source R&D from your intended audience. This is invaluable to the manufacturer. Trying to stifle commentary would be pointless. If everybody is a Cheerleader, than Everybody is done a dis-service.

 Additionally, how many people say nothing because they are terrified of looking stupid or being call a lot of names...


----------



## haloxt

If anyone is terrified of looking stupid it is you, because every single post you make you reiterate how we're wrong for pressuring you.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If anyone is terrified of looking stupid it is you, because every single post you make you reiterate how we're wrong for pressuring you._

 

I just got off the phone with Dr. Sennheiser. He wanted to make sure I didn't miss the big favor he did for me last week, and how he didn't make any money on it. 

 I told him, I noticed...


----------



## sandchak

I think this time, I really need to speak out.

 Sometime ago, in this Forum :
 Les, called me a Shill, a liason, a promoter, advertiser, someone who is making a deal out of Compass, and now it’s a problem by me addressing Kingwa as “my good friend”..
 I really don’t have to do this, but I have decided to copy and paste a couple of my PM and email correspondence I have had with Forum members about Compass..

 First of all Compass isn’t introduced physically as yet, secondly I am not the one who is going to do the critical review, but Peete and Currawong .
 I am not saying that I understand what a forum or community means more than Les, neither am I saying my relationship with Kingwa, makes me think less about this forum or the folks.

 I was the one that emailed Les the Compass pics when he was politely being refused very politely by members, only because I felt it wasn’t fair that some had the pictures and rest did not – my closeness to Kingwa, did not stop me from doing so..

 Even with everything what Les had to say about me, and his problems with understanding Kingwas language, I addressed his questions to Kingwa and relayed whatever info I could get from him – He seems to clearly say that, he could do so, but even when he needed he did not – but now I feel he made me do so.

 As far as me promoting Compass, if you see below my communication with CSROC, when he was in the verge of deciding, I asked him not to rush and if I had the choice I would have waited till Peete’s and Currawongs review was out..

 Yes, in the course of communicating with Kingwa, I have developed a good relationship with him and we consider each other good friends, but my words and actions prove that I have never let that come between – and I am not doing a promoters, liaisons, shills job..

  Quote:


 I can understand why you want to get your order in! I am debating it right now whether I want to email him that I am interested in purchasing one at this time. The blackout is rather long and it would be nice to have and fun to play with before then but as you mentioned the first users and a couple reviews would be nice to read first.

 Originally Posted by sandchak
 Actually, as far as my knowledge goes he has 18 Compass for the first batch, meaning that will be all till the Chinese New Year.. I do not know how many orders he has got as yet, I am sure when the pics are up, the list of buyers will increase.

 The reason I went for it is because I have nothing, Zero sold, Shanling Sold.. so for me to wait till the shipping blackout gets over would be too long..

 If I had a choice, maybe I would have waited atleast till Peete and Currawongs review was out..


 Originally Posted by csroc
 Originally Posted by sandchak
 You dont have to rush.. prices will stay the same till April -May2009.. But after that you can expect it to go up by a 100 or even 150..but then if you want to join the party, you are welcome !!

 I wasn't too concerned about missing out on the deal, I just don't usually buy something on release. I prefer to let others do the product testing to make sure there aren't any hidden gremlins.

 Still, awfully tempting to pay up now! 
 

 Quote:


 Ok Les, I have some answers, you figure out..

 1)If I Push Super - "Line in" bypass the DAC and go direct to Ear Amp?-----------------------Yes, and this mode, DAC can output to other gear.
 I guess he means, in this mode the DAC can be used for aother source..
 2)Can "Line in" be routed to DAC out?------------I don't understand what you mean.
 I have simplified and asked him again, but it seems its past 1.30am in China – so he must have called it a day – tomorrow I’ll let you know.
 3)Can I route USB/COAX/Optical to Ear Amp and “DAC Out” Simultaneously (together)?--------------No, because I think if DAC parts output to earamp and other gear, will effect inside earamp SQ, 
 No, it will effect SQ.

 So you see its difficult, and in any case, you would be deciding after some reviews, and I am sure Peete’s review will be very thorough and neutral, so maybe once it reaches him – you can address him with these questions – or are you taking a jump earlier??..

 Btw, I have also asked Kingwa, when he would be posting the Compass pics on the web, because if you ask me honestly, this approach of I have it, but sorry I won’t share – sucks.. leaves a kind of bad taste for the person requesting, that’s why I have asked people to directly address Kingwa, and I don’t see any reason why he should refuse..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think this time, I really need to speak out.

 Sometime ago, in this Forum :
 Les, called me a Shill, a liason, a promoter, advertiser, someone who is making a deal out of Compass, and now it’s a problem by me addressing Kingwa as “my good friend”..
 I really don’t have to do this, but I have decided to copy and paste a couple of my PM and email correspondence I have had with Forum members about Compass..

 First of all Compass isn’t introduced physically as yet, secondly I am not the one who is going to do the critical review, but Peete and Currawong .
 I am not saying that I understand what a forum or community means more than Les, neither am I saying my relationship with Kingwa, makes me think less about this forum or the folks.

 I was the one that emailed Les the Compass pics when he was politely being refused very politely by members, only because I felt it wasn’t fair that some had the pictures and rest did not – my closeness to Kingwa, did not stop me from doing so..

 Even with everything what Les had to say about me, and his problems with understanding Kingwas language, I addressed his questions to Kingwa and relayed whatever info I could get from him – He seems to clearly say that, he could do so, but even when he needed he did not – but now I feel he made me do so.

 As far as me promoting Compass, if you see below my communication with CSROC, when he was in the verge of deciding, I asked him not to rush and if I had the choice I would have waited till Peete’s and Currawongs review was out..

 Yes, in the course of communicating with Kingwa, I have developed a good relationship with him and we consider each other good friends, but my words and actions prove that I have never let that come between – and I am not doing a promoters, liaisons, shills job.._

 

Hmmm,

 First I never called you a shill, a promoter, or an advertiser.

 I said: """ Then statements like, yes it is going to sound better than this product or that product, you start sounding like a company SHILL."""

 Direct cut and paste. This was my way of warning you, that you were starting to sound Biased. This didn't work out well for either of us, and I should have figured a different way of telling you how you were beginning to sound.

 Here is where I answered a question you asked and called you a Liaison:

 SandChak::"""""Personally, and I again say Personally, I feel Kingwa has been very helpful in taking our concerns and developing Compass, I don't care whether he makes profit or not because it doesn't come to my pocket, neither does it go from mine.. but as an audio lover, if Compass is what it seems to be, it would be the best thing for me..
 If you noticed, a few of days ago, someone from the forum was very critical of the English language on Compass webpage, I wanted to return this favor to Kingwa and I asked him, since people have problem understanding his English language, if he wished, I would edit his english for the Compass web page, it was just a sign of appreciation of what he did.
 Which does not mean if his Compass is bad, he would not be slammed because my hard earned money has gone into it..

 Do you think I did wrong??..""""""

 Here was my answer:

 """""You sound like a liaison for the company. You are offering to do work for them, either free or otherwise.

 That doesn't mean the company is bad or makes bad products. They make awesome products as far as everything i have read.""""""



 You are no doubt a liaison for Audio-gd. Believe me, that is without doubt. Maybe you should read the definition of the word. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, I am noting that Bias may occur in a liaison relationship. Indeed, most Liaison relationships are based on a Bias requirement. Not all though, some require a Liaison to assure there is no bias between parties/entities/organizations. That's the Liaison you should be. You are calling Kingwa your "Good Friend" for God's sake. How do you think that comes across? 

 Everybody who buys this product and gives their opinion here will be "reviewing" the product. Just as the first listeners are doing in the HD800 thread RIGHT NOW. And because these reviews are positive, Sennheiser has already sold a lot of phones to head-Fi members from those "reviews". A LOT of Phones. That's just how things work. We hope the reviews are unbiased. The Forum does not work right otherwise.

 You did send me the pictures of the pre-production product, that was nice of you. I pointed out some things in the pictures, and the Audio-gd site was changed because of questions I asked. The jumpers for the SQ tweaks, The "super' button questions, and the fact all the boards are hard soldered together and cannot be simply swapped out, unless you can desolder and re solder on a PCB. These questions caused changes and clarifications to be made to the Website, that's a good thing.

 YOU should note that I did not call you a promoter or an advertiser, someone else did. That should tell you that I am not the only person to ask questions here. Someone else mentioned this was a FANBOY thread. I didn't say that. I asked for things to be kept objective. All these "Dust Ups" started because of marketing hype statements. If that occurs on Audio-gd, it's easy to figure out it is hype. When it is injected into the forum, expect a call on it.


----------



## csroc

I think both of you are making good points. Les your comments about sandchak sounding like he might be a "shill" are something I agreed with at the time. I wasn't specifically saying you (sandchak) were a shill but that you sounded like you had some sort of business connection to Kingwa. 

 Whether you do or don't, it would be hard for anyone in your position to be impartial or not sound like you're tied to the company since you have been relaying info back and forth and have helped Kingwa in modifying his product details to be more clear. Your words have been close to his at times, which is why I started to wonder and why I agreed with les at the time.

 I'm not saying either of you did wrong. Sandchak as I understand you are helping Kingwa with some issues about a product he's making at the request of this community, and you plan to purchase one for yourself. I respect that. Les might be a bit strong in coming on with his criticisms and comments but he is making sure that issues of bias are taken care of and that we're getting straight information on what's going on.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think both of you are making good points. Les your comments about sandchak sounding like he might be a "shill" are something I agreed with at the time. I wasn't specifically saying you (sandchak) were a shill but that you sounded like you had some sort of business connection to Kingwa. 

 Whether you do or don't, it would be hard for anyone in your position to be impartial or not sound like you're tied to the company since you have been relaying info back and forth and have helped Kingwa in modifying his product details to be more clear. Your words have been close to his at times, which is why I started to wonder and why I agreed with les at the time.

 I'm not saying either of you did wrong. Sandchak as I understand you are helping Kingwa with some issues about a product he's making at the request of this community, and you plan to purchase one for yourself. I respect that. Les might be a bit strong in coming on with his criticisms and comments but he is making sure that issues of bias are taken care of and that we're getting straight information on what's going on._

 

Well I'm done. That's the only message I was trying to get across.

 We all want to help Audio-gd make a good product here. It seems like quite a deal at $258 to me. Looks like a DAC-100 with a Free Head Amp, and all the inputs we want.


----------



## csroc

Agreed, it looks like a pretty good headphone amp too, so if the product is up to expectations then I think this is a real good deal for $258. I'm tempted to just go ahead and buy it, Audio-gds reputation does seem to be pretty good, but normally I wait a bit to see if there are problems on first release.


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## haloxt

Thanks, Sandchak, for all your contribution to this thread and helping out kingwa with clarifying his english and relaying questions and answers. And shame on les garten for trying to take credit for what sandchak did, who took the initiative to ask kingwa the questions directly and thus improving the product description and even helping with translation.

 Quite frankly, I'm sick of the bull here. I'll refrain from posting until les garten stops farting.


----------



## sandchak

Ok Guys, this is going to be my last post on this thread.

 I guess I did whatever I could, and also got back whatever I deserved. 

 I have already ordered my Compass; in fact I was the first one to do so. I hear my Compass will be shipped first (!!), I presume that’s a gesture from Kingwa for his appreciation for being a kind of mediator, due to his language problems..

 So I guess, I’ll get my Compass soon, and rather than looking for reviews, I’ll just relax and hear some good music.. Btw, my good friend Kingwa has personally invited me for a good drink of “distilled Chinese spirit”! So I have a lot to look forward to..

 Anyway, thanks haloxt for your appreciation, and Les for the criticism, I am a strong believer that you learn from both.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Sandchak, for all your contribution to this thread and helping out kingwa with clarifying his english and relaying questions and answers. And shame on les garten for trying to take credit for what sandchak did, who took the initiative to ask kingwa the questions directly and thus improving the product description and even helping with translation.

 Quite frankly, I'm sick of the bull here. I'll refrain from posting until les garten stops farting._

 

I don't see anything of the kind ....you need to read carefully what is being written. Les has made valid points as far as I can see. I see nothing wrong with Sandchak helping Kingwa out but at the same time he must know it looks like he's already disqualified himself from objective comment on the Compass because of that association of late. I know Kingwa quite well but I will not allow that association to cloud my judgment on the gear he produces...I think he'd want it this way if you asked him.

 I respect peoples wishes for the most part on this board until they've gone one step to far....you sir have crossed the line IMO....and need to rethink your future participation in this thread.

 Les isn't trying to take credit for anything Sandchak has done....Where you come up with this conclusion is beyond me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let's turn down the signal to noise ratio in here and concentrate on the Compass please.......it's almost here.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjojoj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd say your taking a wee bit more than literary liberties when stating that the company is said to be "The mother Teresa of Electronics". How would that statement hold up in a scientific context in terms of proof etc? Questions, remember?
 I myself tend to increase the amount of skepticism and critical viewing proportionately to the size (volume of sales, number of employees, marketshare etc.) of a company. Not in a linear fashion allower though, as there is a GREAT jump between a company that is listed on the stock exchange and one that isn't (in terms of my level of skepticism)!

 One huge company that is indeed projecting itself as a mother Teresa would be Monsanto, wouldn't you agree? Now, there's a company in which you could thrive in your critical viewing OF!

 Anyway, why don't we all try to relax a bit now, shallen't we? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking forward to the upcoming reviews!


 Regards,
 Björn-Olof, Sweden (no, we don't have penguins and do not manufacture wristwatches
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 


 What ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.........your 1st post at head fi .....you only have 1 chance to make a 1st impression my Grandmother always said......way to go Sven !!!!

 Les....I don't know why your commentary brings out the loons but it's a either a gift or a curse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.........your 1st post at head fi .....you only have 1 chance to make a 1st impression my Grandmother always said......way to go Sven !!!!

 Les....I don't know why your commentary brings out the loons but it's a either a gift or a curse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

It's a gift...


----------



## bjojoj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.........your 1st post at head fi .....you only have 1 chance to make a 1st impression my Grandmother always said......way to go Sven !!!!

 Les....I don't know why your commentary brings out the loons but it's a either a gift or a curse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Would you be kind enough to elaborate on that remark? 
 1st impression, huh? I am definitely not here to make any impression. I have been viewing this thread for a long time and have been very close to posting before but I just felt the urge too strong this time. The way I see it, it is completely possible to be respectful and viewing critically at the same time. I feel that Les has been a bit on the disrespectfull provocative side a couple of times in this thread. As have a couple of others, but there have not been much substance in their posts so those I've just read and been done with.

 Speeking of respect and first impressions, I'm sorry to say that you haven't been very successful in that area with this last post of yours. 

 Well, I think we (as in some of us here) could very well fill numerous pages in this thread explaining ourselves, questioning each other etc. If anyone needs any clarification from me, please ask.

 Thank you all for all of the info in this thread. Especially the one/those who started the thread and have been kind enough to share the info with the rest of us.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

So it seems that this product is shooting to be the best in its price range. I think right now this may be my best option in a few months if I decide to upgrade from my Boa. However, a question remains.

 What other products exactly is this Compass competing against? Are there really any other options for a USB DAC/Amp in the $200-$400 range? It is being marketed as an alternative to the Zero but it also looks to be much higher quality. If this product doesn't get shining reviews, what else should I look at, considering price really is a deal breaker for me?


----------



## csroc

Well there are a number of other USB/DACs in the $200-500 range. There's the Keces (152 I think), Meier Cantante.2, Travgans, Cute Beyond + Fubar II and plenty more I can't think of right now. Based on design and components it's really up in the air who it's going to compete against, it certainly has design components and features that interest me in comparing it against the Meier for example, so I'm definitely looking forward to the first impressions (and I may be one of the people providing those).


----------



## sonicserve

Thanks les_garten for pointing me to this thread. I am in for one and ready to send payment. How can I know it is available to order?


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Do any of those DAC's also have an amp? I was under the impression that a DAC output was far to weak to drive a pair of headphones and would always need to be coupled with an amp. I am more in the market for either an amp and a DAC each costing about $150 for a total of $300, or a single device (like the compass) costing about $300. Possibly stretching to $350 and only to $400 is there is a massive breakpoint in cost/performance.

 I haven't seen much insight as to which piece plays a more important role in the signal path (and sound quality) or if its generally not a good idea to buy a combo Amp/DAC unit. Something like the Compass sounds great to me, it is all contained in one unit and I don't have to buy any interconnects.

 Edit: Just looked up a few of those. Looks like I have some research to do.


----------



## csroc

All those that I mentioned are DAC+amp devices like the Compass is.

 The Cute Beyond + Fubar II are actually two separate units but together they cost a little more than $300 I believe. Travgans has a couple DAC + amp units for less than $300 I believe. The Fubar, Keces, Travgans and Meier all only offer USB as digital inputs I believe, whereas the Compass has three digital input options.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do any of those DAC's also have an amp? I was under the impression that a DAC output was far to weak to drive a pair of headphones and would always need to be coupled with an amp. I am more in the market for either an amp and a DAC each costing about $150 for a total of $300, or a single device (like the compass) costing about $300. Possibly stretching to $350 and only to $400 is there is a massive breakpoint in cost/performance.

 I haven't seen much insight as to which piece plays a more important role in the signal path (and sound quality) or if its generally not a good idea to buy a combo Amp/DAC unit. Something like the Compass sounds great to me, it is all contained in one unit and I don't have to buy any interconnects.

 Edit: Just looked up a few of those. Looks like I have some research to do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yea, Im in similar predicament. Ive read that the amp is more important but what good is an amp if your best/only source is a stock XFi? Thats why Im leaning in this direction instead of the SOHA II. I presume that this has pre-amp capability in which case I could buy the amp later and have a truly nice set up that at least functioned well when it was simply a Compass.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So it seems that this product is shooting to be the best in its price range. I think right now this may be my best option in a few months if I decide to upgrade from my Boa. However, a question remains.

 What other products exactly is this Compass competing against? Are there really any other options for a USB DAC/Amp in the $200-$400 range? It is being marketed as an alternative to the Zero but it also looks to be much higher quality. If this product doesn't get shining reviews, what else should I look at, considering price really is a deal breaker for me?_

 

It looks like the pricepoint puts it out of the Zero range doesn't it.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

I guess there is only so much speculation that I can do until this thing is reviewed huh? It is good to see lots of other cheap amp/DAC options that I may look into.

 Is it safe to assume all of these will vastly (in terms of what I can expect from audio upgrades) outperform my D2 Boa in terms of amp and DAC? I would hope that the price increase alone would do it, but with more available space and a real AC power source is it fair to expect even more improvement than I would from just throwing some more money into another portable?

 Edit: Les, Yes. I guess it does, depending on how large your price range is.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sonicserve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks les_garten for pointing me to this thread. I am in for one and ready to send payment. How can I know it is available to order?_

 


 Hi Glad to see you over from the Yulong thread. Be careful not to jump too soon. But we know what "wanting" something does to you!

 If this box sounds good. The promo price will be $38 more than a Lawrence mod'd Zero for $220. With all the drama around the Zero QA and Zero Vendor QA that makes this the REAL DEAL if it can deliver the SQ.

 When the price adjusts, it will have to be re-assessed for value. It sounds like the price may adjust to a FrankenZero price. I didn't buy Audio-gd's HDAMs when they were Promo'd and regretted it later when the price adjusted and i wanted one. They initially had a 2 for one sale.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When the price adjusts, it will have to be re-assessed for value. It sounds like the price may adjust to a FrankenZero price._

 

How much is a FrankenZero? I've wondered but never actually found what those things are going for.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much is a FrankenZero? I've wondered but never actually found what those things are going for._

 

Basically you buy a "zillion" parts from Prickly Peete for $50 or so and see if you can desolder and resolder on that POS Zero PCB without lifting all the traces on it. If you had to pay someone to do it, it would probably go for around $100-$150 in labor on top of the parts. The Zero board is difficult to work with if you are used to "Big Name" stuff by Sony, Western Digital, Panasonic, etc because of how thin the traces are and the fact that the thru holes are not metalized.

 Hope that helps.


----------



## csroc

Interesting. I've read up on the Zero some in the past and have found it interesting. Really opened up a lot of opportunities for many people but I'd personally be looking for something higher grade on many levels, not just the FrankenZero mods (which is why I've never considered pursuing that path). 

 I have a friend who has been considering a Zero for himself, I hope he gets it so I can play with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 compared to a number of other DAC + amp options I have been looking at in the $300-almost500 range the Compass looks highly competitive, in many ways potentially a cut above so I'm hoping it really pulls it off.

 Based on what you've said it sounds like someone looking to buy a completed FrankenZero would be looking at spending around $300 unless I'm mistaken. I would actually think the Compass could go beyond that after the promotional period but I guess we'll see.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. I've read up on the Zero some in the past and have found it interesting. Really opened up a lot of opportunities for many people but I'd personally be looking for something higher grade on many levels, not just the FrankenZero mods (which is why I've never considered pursuing that path). 

 I have a friend who has been considering a Zero for himself, I hope he gets it so I can play with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 compared to a number of other DAC + amp options I have been looking at in the $300-almost500 range the Compass looks highly competitive, in many ways potentially a cut above so I'm hoping it really pulls it off.

 Based on what you've said it sounds like someone looking to buy a completed FrankenZero would be looking at spending around $300 unless I'm mistaken. I would actually think the Compass could go beyond that after the promotional period but I guess we'll see._

 

Yes exactly. This thread was started by Curra because of the QC issues that were happening with Zero's. Very hit and miss. One day everything was great and the next Zero sent out was a wreck when you got it. I don't mean shipment damage, it was bad, stupid QC problems at the factory, or bad mods by he vendor. People felt they were getting ripped off by the builder and the vendors. They were for the most part not being supported well by the sellers. There were exceptions from a few sellers who did a good job. If you received a bad one, count on paying another $50 to send it back for a vacation in China, and your Zero got to pick up a few thousand frequent flyer miles. in the process. 

 This Compass product when the price adjusts will be more expensive than the Zero quite possibly. You can tell by the Pix alone that there is a great difference in the quality though. The soldering on the Zero's can be very poor, hit and miss again. Also, I have never heard of a single complaint about Audio-gd like the one's we had with the Zero's.

 I can understand poor manufacturing on a Monday Morning or a Friday afternoon. I can understand damage by the modders. I can't understand the vendor just "writing you off" once he has your money though, and that's what was happening in a lot of instances with one of the Mod'd vendors. I'm sure we have not hurt his business that much in the global scheme of things. he's doing volumes, and we're just a group of enthusiasts in a relatively small number.

 It seems Audio-gd is a different animal. We are dealing directly with the builder and his reputation. That should work out for us all if Audio-gd cares about their product and reputation as much as they seem to.

 I am not sure there will be a direct competitor to the Zero in the end. That Price Point is a hard nut to crack and beat them. Curra and Peete will I'm sure compare and contrast these two products in detail. The Kewl thing here is that we were able to participate in the development.


----------



## csroc

I agree it looks like this will be in a completely different class from the Zero and not really something you would otherwise think to compare against the Zero. Not just from a design standpoint, but the layout, components, materials and build quality area all many steps ahead of the Zero, and perhaps ahead of what you'd expect for the $250 price range.

 I do wonder what Audio-GD's return or repair policies are. From reading other threads and discussions it sounds like Kingwa is very good to deal with if things are lost in shipping for example. But if there's something wrong with something you receive from him does he pay to return it to him for repair if that's the path that you choose? I suppose I could ask him, part of what I like to know about companies I buy from is how they support the customer after the fact.


----------



## scootermafia

No Chinese company, no matter how generous they are, nor many US companies, is going to pay the $50+ each way to send your amp in for repair. They'll probably pay up to ship it back to you but no way are they paying to ship it both ways. It's a solid state amp, there isn't that much craziness going on inside of it, I'd be amazed if anything bad ever happened to one.


----------



## scootermafia

Doesn't matter if your source is an x-fi. The USB DAC completely bypasses the crappy pc sound card of your choice.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No Chinese company, no matter how generous they are, nor many US companies, is going to pay the $50+ each way to send your amp in for repair. They'll probably pay up to ship it back to you but no way are they paying to ship it both ways. It's a solid state amp, there isn't that much craziness going on inside of it, I'd be amazed if anything bad ever happened to one._

 

Heh, have you read the Zero thread? You are right though. The stuff happened at the factory and then was shipped out with no cares whatsoever was in the box. I don't remember them all, but we're talking open solder joints, Opamps installed backwards, open connections to RCA jacks, wrong components, no Grounds on the Volume Pots, DOA's, ad nauseum. Atrocious is the only word I can think of to describe it. Main issue was how it was supported once your money had been paid. The best thread is the my Zero fried my Senn 650's thread. That one will make you ill to read it.

 These bad Zero's that went out had Zero QC. That's what happens when your sole function is to produce numbers and let the cards fall where they may. Then when the vendor won't answer your emails. Yipes!

 Tonights post in the Zero thread is from a guy who ended up having to get two because the first one had a dead Headamp, the replacement just quit today after about 3 months. Bought 2, and he's got two dead Zero's

 Audio-gd's current price is very competitive with the Mod'd Zero's on Ebay for $220. The one's with the Alps, and the HDAM.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Doesn't matter if your source is an x-fi. The USB DAC completely bypasses the crappy pc sound card of your choice._

 

Which is why I said that its probably better for me to get the Compass as my first major component (I have headphones) instead of the SOHA II.

 Didnt confirm my thinking, didnt counter my thinking. Kinda missed entirely XD


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mid-January... I may have to hold off on the purchase of a DacMagic... wish the pound was stronger against the dollar right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 USD$250 is now £172, according to XE.com - even more when PayPal bend you over. Back a few months, it was $2/£1 on XE, and probably $1.85/£1 with PayPal... it's now worth $1.45 on XE.

 6 months ago, the Compass would have been around £50 less than it is now. Assuming it does come in at USD$250... ahh... there's post on top, IIRC?

 ~Phewl._

 

Hah well you're lucky you're not in Australia our dollar's gone from near parity to 70 cents or so

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not sure there will be a direct competitor to the Zero in the end. That Price Point is a hard nut to crack and beat them. Curra and Peete will I'm sure compare and contrast these two products in detail. The Kewl thing here is that we were able to participate in the development._

 

Fairly sure the SVDAC05 has been a competitor in price to the Zero for a while now. It just hasn't taken off like the Zero did. I've had two SVDAC05s and one Zero from wsz0304 but I'm afraid my ears/equipment aren't good enough to notice a difference from intial listenings. The other '05 and Zero are in two of my friends hands now


----------



## oldschool

Does Audio-Gd always ship with well-known courier services? How 'bout EMS or Registered Priority mail?

 Even with discounts for Kingwa, the shipping rates of $80 to Eastern Europe are still high..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does Audio-Gd always ship with well-known courier services? How 'bout EMS or Registered Priority mail?

 Even with discounts for Kingwa, the shipping rates of $80 to Eastern Europe are still high.._

 

Hello,
 I was just looking over the Audio-gd page trying to find shipping rates and did npt see the carriers listed either. My experience is that the shipping charges with some of these guys can be "negotiated". I think some of them try to go for additional profits in shipping. This is counter productive and short sighted if your sales drop though. I used to do this on Ebay in the early days. Your auctions do better if you can show reasonable if not cheap delivery prices.

 The buyer is smart enough to figure out he is being "gouged". If he doesn't factor it into his auction or in this case purchase cost, he gets ticked off later that he didn't check the shipping costs. Also mistrust and bad feelings for the company comes about if the customer thinks he was "gouged" with shipping fees.

 I just received an amp from Darkvoice and argued the shipping down and I have done it with sheuzen Audio or whatever that Internet store is also. Get a quote for the size and weight and make a pitch to the seller. 

 I sent in a request for shipping on a DAC-8 from Audio-gd and we'll see what they quote on that, I'll ask them who the shippers are and post back here.

 Ohh, and $80 does seem high for a Compass, is that the product you ae referring to?


 EDIT/Update: I just received a quote of $100 for a DAC-8 to USA. Somewhat large box, 15 KG shipped. Seems very reasonable to me.


----------



## mbd2884

Its clearly stated that he uses UPS, DHL and TNT, and from my impressions, it will most likely be from DHL. He chooses them because again clearly stated that the packages will arrive in US in 3 business days.

 He also clearly states the shipping charges, which he claims has a very reduced rate, 120 For USA for a 4.5 KG shipment. Remember this is a full aluminum casing, faceplate almost 1/4 inch thick.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ It seems Audio-gd is a different animal. We are dealing directly with the builder and his reputation. That should work out for us all if Audio-gd cares about their product and reputation as much as they seem to._

 

I'd like to add that audio-gd did have issues at first with some early shipped HDAMs and their extension leads - but he more than came up with a solution, and offered replacements readily - that's someone who cares.


----------



## audio-gd

I don’t wish post in forum, because my English is too bad, you maybe must guess what I said.
 But this time I must show up the fact.
 I don’t know why you guy Les, said a lot without fact thing to defame us, In my experience, I never see any foreigner will said some things without fact ago, but now I see one.


----------



## audio-gd

In fact, express not give me so much discounts.
 The cheapest shipping cost because some of our products discount.
 For example shipping to USA, DHL give me the price is :
 the first 0.5KG price is USD20.5, and add each 0.5KG price USD5.44.
 Compass netweight 4KG, and pack with some cable (power cable, USB cable,ect), and the paper box, total weight is more than 4.5KG, so DHL will account it weight 5KG.
 Price=5.44X9+20.5=USD69.46
 For DHL official price is USD132.
 For example shipping to East Europe,express give me price is :
 First 0.5KG price USD30, add each 0.5KG price is USD8.67,
 Price = 8.67X9+30=USD108.
 For DHL official price is USD256.
 Check the official price in this link
Rates Inquiry

 Why I only said shipping cost is USD55 to USA and USD80 to east Europe? I only hope to accelerate our products .

 You guy can check the price at any express.
 And why a lot of customers can received our products after we shipment 3 days?
 Why some venders shipment , the customers need wait 7-10 days received the goods?

 I know some venders sale ZERO with USD40 shipping cost to any place in world, but ZERO only 3KG, and Compass had more than 4.5KG but express account it 5KG.

 Yes we can affirm the shipping charge is USD55 to any place in world, it will let South America / Africa / East Europe customers have profit but it is unfair for Malaysia / Thailand/Australia / New Zealand customers. Because they pay more shipping cost for those South America / Africa / East Europe customers.


----------



## mbd2884

Kingwa, I have confidence that you are not trying to make a profit from the shipping and can be verified by the price quote by DHL.

 Thanks for your posting.

 Confirmed 4.5 KG package from Beijing to USA by worldwide package express is 120 USD. He is charging 55 USD, I don't see a profit here.

 Confirmed 4.5 KG package from Beijing to Poland (Eastern Europe) worldwide package express is 236 USD. He is charging 80 USD. Again I do not see a profit.


----------



## oldschool

I know Audio-Gd is not making profit from shipping, I checked the rates myself, they are twice higher than the quoted by Kingwa.

 What I was asking was if shipping by EMS (for instance) is also possible, because for me $80 with DHL is still quite high (talking about the Compass). I am not in a hurry to receive the unit, waiting for 10 days is perfectly fine for me, as long as it arrives safely.


----------



## audio-gd

To USA and West Europe, we most shipment by DHL, by some a few country like Spain, we shipment by TNT, because the DHL of Spain like to ask the customers pay some money.


----------



## audio-gd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know Audio-Gd is not making profit from shipping, I checked the rates myself, they are twice higher than the quoted by Kingwa.

 What I was asking was if shipping by EMS (for instance) is also possible, because for me $80 with DHL is still quite high (talking about the Compass). I am not in a hurry to receive the unit, waiting for 10 days is perfectly fine for me, as long as it arrives safely._

 

In Chinese, EMS is subjection Chinese state, so their price is costly than DHL/TNT and other express, I have check the price with EMS, price high than DHL 30% .
 This instance also appear in Chinese, We shipment a goods to ShangHai, express price USD3 and second day arrive, EMS price USD4 and arrive in 3 days.


----------



## mbd2884

Just talk to Kingwa, he answers his email very promptly. I'm sure considering his willingness to meet his customers needs will help whatever way he can. My suggestion, not post here, just ask him yourself.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know Audio-Gd is not making profit from shipping, I checked the rates myself, they are twice higher than the quoted by Kingwa.

 What I was asking was if shipping by EMS (for instance) is also possible, because for me $80 with DHL is still quite high (talking about the Compass). I am not in a hurry to receive the unit, waiting for 10 days is perfectly fine for me, as long as it arrives safely._


----------



## oldschool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audio-gd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To USA and West Europe, we most shipment by DHL, by some a few country like Spain, we shipment by TNT, because the DHL of Spain like to ask the customers pay some money._

 

Ok, thanks.

 Now, when can we expect pictures of the full unit?


----------



## mbd2884

I kinda think it would be exciting to see it when the reviews or when our own shipment arrives! hehe

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, thanks.

 Now, when can we expect pictures of the full unit? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## dBs

Well audio-gd has better English than I have seen from some native speakers. Feel free, I say, to continue to represent yourself if you wish.

 I am looking forward to seeing the results of the product!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to add that audio-gd did have issues at first with some early shipped HDAMs and their extension leads - but he more than came up with a solution, and offered replacements readily - that's someone who cares._

 

I do remember that, soldering breakage issues.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audio-gd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don’t wish post in forum, because my English is too bad, you maybe must guess what I said.
 But this time I must show up the fact.
 I don’t know why you guy Les, said a lot without fact thing to defame us, In my experience, I never see any foreigner will said some things without fact ago, but now I see one._

 

Hello,
 I don't think I defamed you anywhere. I am glad you are representing yourself here. At least everyone know's everyone's motivations this way. Here is what I said above:

 """My experience is that the shipping charges with _*some of these guys*_ can be "negotiated". I think some of them try to go for additional profits in shipping."""""

 That statement was meant to be a General statement dealing with Chinese vendors in General. That's why I used the "some of these guys" phrase. It was not directed at Audio-gd directly. I stand by my statements though. Some of these guys do gouge on shipping. For instance, you just gave me a quote for $100 that I have received quotes for $170 for the same size and weight object from other sellers. Then I made a few emails and ended up at $110. I even responded to your quote that I thought it was very reasonable. I was expecting $150-$200 based on other experiences I have had.

 The point I was trying to make was a general one to open a dialog with the seller and see if they comes down, don't come down, or justify their shipping charges. 

 This is such a problem on Ebay, that policies are always changing, and at present Ebay is making an attempt to set Shipping charges for Auctions.

 I see though that my response was to a question related to your shipping quote. It would seem reasonable for you to assume that everything I posted there was targeting your company. If that was your perception, please accept my sincerest apologies, that was not how I meant it to come across.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,
 I don't think I defamed you anywhere. I am glad you are representing yourself here. At least everyone know's everyone's motivations this way. Here is what I said above:

 """My experience is that the shipping charges with *some of these guys* can be "negotiated". I think some of them try to go for additional profits in shipping."""""

 That statement was meant to be a General statement dealing with Chinese vendors in General. That's why I used the "some of these guys" phrase. It was not directed at Audio-gd directly. I stand by my statements though. Some of these guys do gouge on shipping. For instance, you just gave me a quote for $100 that I have received quotes for $170 for the same size and weight object from other sellers. Then I made a few emails and ended up at $110. I even responded to your quote that I thought it was very reasonable. I was expecting $150-$200 based on other experiences I have had.

 The point I was trying to make was a general one to open a dialog with the seller and see if they comes down, don't come down, or justify their shipping charges. 

 This is such a problem on Ebay, that policies are always changing, and at present Ebay is making an attempt to set Shipping charges for Auctions.

 I see though that my response was to a question related to your shipping quote. It would seem reasonable for you to assume that everything I posted there was targeting your company. If that was your perception, please accept my sincerest apologies, that was not how I meant it to come across._

 

I was really thinking of taking a little break from the thread, but then I thought well, everyone is equal out here, so maybe I should be a part of it too..

 Maybe Les was taking in general, but I think he forgot or conveniently ignored the concluding lines of his statement :

  Quote:


 Ohh, and $80 does seem high for a Compass, is that the product you ae referring to? 
 

If I interpret that correctly, I think it means Audio GD is charging high shipping for Compass.. so actually its not exactly a general statement ..

 Well, I am just doing some objective thinking myself now (thanks to Les) - So Les does make statements like that without taking the facts into consideration..

 I am honestly glad that Kingwa is representing himself out here - he ought to when people make such statements based not on facts, but I dont know..

 Les is correct, by kingwa representing himself, you know his motivations..

 Well, Les seems to know also my motivations..

 So my question is, by making such statements about Audio GD.. what is Les's motivations????....


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So my question is, by making such statements about Audio GD.. what is Les's motivations????...._

 

Oh no, not another can of worms. Please Les, don't bite!


----------



## dBs

Yea, I think were starting to hit PM level conflicts. This thread is here for the design, pictures, reviews, of the Compass. But then Im a junior member, what do I know!


----------



## sonicserve

Hi, audio-gd:

 Please do not take les_garten's comments too personally. There are definitely some misunderstandings. The bottom line is that les_garten is a supporter for this new Compass DAC and he spoke highly about audio-gd's products and reputation in a PM sent to me yesterday.

 You see now I am here, monitoring this thread, hope the reviews can be out soon so that I can place my order.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audio-gd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don’t wish post in forum, because my English is too bad, you maybe must guess what I said.
 But this time I must show up the fact.
 I don’t know why you guy Les, said a lot without fact thing to defame us, In my experience, I never see any foreigner will said some things without fact ago, but now I see one._


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sonicserve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, audio-gd:

 Please do not take les_garten's comments too personally. There are definitely some misunderstandings. The bottom line is that les_garten is a supporter for this new Compass DAC and he spoke highly about audio-gd's products and reputation in a PM sent to me yesterday.

 *snip*_

 

And Les does point out a few good points along the way, it just that the way he delivers them seems a bit 'provocative' for some - like the shipping comment for example


----------



## mbd2884

I hope he starts shipping them out today!

 Can't wait for mine.


----------



## godluvsxs

Hi guys, just to offer a bit of help here, usually I communicate with Kingwa in chinese and if you guys got any confusion over his product description, please shoot me the questions, I could help u to get precise answer in return 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dont let the language barrier to stop you getting this piece of great work !!!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *godluvsxs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, just to offer a bit of help here, usually I communicate with Kingwa in chinese and if you guys got any confusion over his product description, please shoot me the questions, I could help u to get precise answer in return 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dont let the language barrier to stop you getting this piece of great work !!!_

 

Thanx for that.. I've had a number of emails with him today and he does well especially in response to specific questions. He seems to work around the clock too.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope he starts shipping them out today!

 Can't wait for mine._

 

He said he was waiting for the volume knobs to come in... then they'll be ready to ship as they've already been tested and burned in.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He seems to work around the clock too._

 

I noticed that as well! Maybe he sits at home with insomnia and surfs the web and checks his email


----------



## mbd2884

Or maybe he helps to assemble and test and ship and well everything to get his products out to his customers around the clock!


----------



## Drosera

Not really related to the Compass, but here are some photographs of ShunDe (Kingwa's hometown (?)).
Chinese New Year
 Some really gorgeous views, I want to go there!
 (And the ancestral home of Bruce Lee (Li Xiaolong), although he was born in San Francisco. Apparently there will be a Bruce Lee themepark.)


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not really related to the Compass, but here are some photographs of ShunDe (Kingwa's hometown (?)).
Chinese New Year
 Some really gorgeous views, I want to go there!
 (And the ancestral home of Bruce Lee (Li Xiaolong), although he was born in San Francisco. Apparently there will be a Bruce Lee themepark.)_

 

I would swear that some of those s pix were of sites from the Chinese Connection and Fists of Fury!!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would swear that some of those s pix were of sites from the Chinese Connection and Fists of Fury!!_

 

That's intriguing. In a quick search I can't find the filming locations for those movies. But since Lo Wei (the director) had a habit of filming all over the place (though mostly in Korea) I guess it's possible.

 UPDATE: Ok, for The Chinese Connection (called Fist of Fury outside America) I can find the locations of HongKong, Macau and Thailand. For Fists of Fury (called 'The Big Boss' elsewhere) there's just Thailand.
 But, since ShunDe doesn't seem too far from HongKong (about 150 kilometers)...


----------



## edselfordfong

noob here, sorry to move the conversation in a different direction.

 on the first post of this thread, currawong describes this as, among other things, a pre-amp. What I'm wondering is: does this mean that I'll be able to plug this into an amplifier and use this as in a speaker system?

 This DAC can be used as a source (in "super" mode). But if I run it through the amp part, could that function like a preamp? But then the only line out is the phone jack, right?

 Basically, I'm exactly the type who this thing is aimed at. Entry level budget, just thinking of working up a system based a PC as a transport. I love the idea of combining the DAC with the headphone amp, since that's what I want to start off with. But I'd like to be able to build on the system later on by adding an amplifier and speakers. (You know, just to something like a T-amp and some bookshelves, nothing special.) Would the Compass work with this plan? (If not the compass, what?) 

 Actually, being new to headphone audio, I think this might be a more general question. I'm borrowing my dad's X-Can V2 (and HD-600s), and it has line outs. Could those be connected to an amp and then speakers? If not, what are they for?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not really related to the Compass, but here are some photographs of ShunDe (Kingwa's hometown (?)).
Chinese New Year
 Some really gorgeous views, I want to go there!
 (And the ancestral home of Bruce Lee (Li Xiaolong), although he was born in San Francisco. Apparently there will be a Bruce Lee themepark.)_

 

Well, its interesting because my great grand mother happened to be a Chinese, and I have visited that place a couple of times, visiting folks (although don't know a single word in Chinese!), I must say, China post 2008 Olympics look totally different than say 10 years earlier - I agree it looks wonderful !


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 This DAC can be used as a source (in "super" mode). But if I run it through the amp part, could that function like a preamp? But then the only line out is the phone jack, right?
_

 

Well, if you can take a parallel connection from the headphone jack, drill 2 holes on the back, plug in 2 RCAs, it becomes a preamp out - in which case you must have the headphones unplugged to have the preamp activated..

 I know its a lil bit of DIY, but if you ask Kingwa, "maybe" he could do that for an extra charge..

 In any case, there is a DAC out, which can be connected to an amp and then to speakers..

 I might be wrong though, so please correct me..


----------



## mbd2884

I can't wait for it to arrive. I said this before and probably will say it again later.


----------



## sandchak

Not bad at all - you might just become "Headphoneus Supremus" by the time Compass arrives !!..


----------



## godluvsxs

IMHO compass is going to be one hack of great all in one machine. Through exchanges of email with Kingwa, the DAC performance should be on par with DAC100 which personally compare head to heard before with EARTH modded ZERO (the DAC100 quality appears to be a step higher, more detail + very low distortion) while the headamp performance is exceeding audio-gd's ST3 headamp, you cant imagine how "hard" bang for the bucks this machine going to be


----------



## mbd2884

I just hope he can ship them out today, or really soon!

 He did say he can ship mine before the 20th though, so that's awesome


----------



## Currawong

I just realised I'd forgotten all about the possibility of using it as a pre-amp, which the Zero can be. I don't think it's a major omission though. It's something that could be considered in the future.

 godluvsxs: Thanks for offering your help with translation. I think Kingwa has quite a bit of stress from worrying about his English, and, not to mention, worrying about the things we say in this thread. Anything that reduces people's stress is a good thing.


----------



## csroc

Yeah I don't see the preamp feature in this, if you want to use it in a speaker system with a separate amp. Doesn't bother me at all, that's not a feature I would be using.

 I hope these ship soon too, for some reason it amuses me that the only thing holding the process up is the volume knobs. From his email it sounds like as soon as those are in these things will be shipping to everyone who has bought one so far.


----------



## sandchak

I still think it can be used with an amp and speaker through the DAC out, its just that the Volume control of The Compass will be bypassed and you would have to do that with the Amp.. 
 Correct me if I am wrong..


----------



## buzzsaw

I have been e-mailing with Kingwa today and I cannot wait to try out the Compass. 

 He sent me some preliminary pictures (no knobs or dials), but asked that I wait to post them. He is going to publish finished pictures on the web-site tomorrow.

 I'm pretty stoked.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still think it can be used with an amp and speaker through the DAC out, its just that the Volume control of The Compass will be bypassed and you would have to do that with the Amp.. 
 Correct me if I am wrong.._

 

I believe you're probably correct, however a preamp has to offer volume control, since it would not it is simply being a DAC. Fine with me but those looking for a preamp feature will be disappointed.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *buzzsaw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been e-mailing with Kingwa today and I cannot wait to try out the Compass. 

 He sent me some preliminary pictures (no knobs or dials), but asked that I wait to post them. He is going to publish finished pictures on the web-site tomorrow.

 I'm pretty stoked._

 

He probably sent me the same pictures. If he expects to have finished pictures on the site tomorrow then perhaps that means the volume knobs are coming in today or tomorrow. If so, good news, the first batch would be shipping out shortly after.


----------



## buzzsaw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If he expects to have finished pictures on the site tomorrow then perhaps that means the volume knobs are coming in today or tomorrow. If so, good news, the first batch would be shipping out shortly after._

 


 Yeah. It sounded like he would be getting the volume dial and other finishing pieces tomorrow and would post the final product pictures shortly thereafter.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Would the better power cable be worth considering for an extra $60? What are peoples views on this?


----------



## buzzsaw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the better power cable be worth considering for an extra $60? What are peoples views on this?_

 

Good question. I wonder about the sonic impact of upgraded power cables myself. However, there are plenty of companies that make upgraded power cables domestically. You'd have several options once you got it.

 Personally, the only extra I am ordering is the optional OPA-Sun.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the better power cable be worth considering for an extra $60? What are peoples views on this?_

 

I don't think so, but then again I find power cables to be snake oil mostly. Certainly if it's nicer looking then I can understand people wanting it for that reason but don't expect a real (measurable) difference in sound quality IMO between it and any other adequately built 3 prong power cable. The Compass uses a pretty standard power cable, like a monitor or PC might use as well so many people probably have plenty of them lying around (I know I do).


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *buzzsaw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good question. I wonder about the sonic impact of upgraded power cables myself. However, there are plenty of companies that make upgraded power cables domestically. You'd have several options once you got it.

 Personally, the only extra I am ordering is the optional OPA-Sun._

 

Yeah thats true, here in the UK there is a guy/company called mark grant cables who I have purchased from. Probably get one from him tbh if I thought it was worth it at some point.

 May well order a second HDAM as well if I do order the Compass


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think so, but then again I find power cables to be snake oil mostly. Certainly if it's nicer looking then I can understand people wanting it for that reason but don't expect a real (measurable) difference in sound quality IMO between it and any other adequately built 3 prong power cable. The Compass uses a pretty standard power cable, like a monitor or PC might use as well so many people probably have plenty of them lying around (I know I do)._

 

Thanks! Sounds as though its probably not going to make the sound $60 better then!? Thought that may be the case tbh


----------



## sandchak

Generally cables do make a difference, although its a very debatable subject.. but one thing for sure, you must have a transparent enough system to measure that - something like rewiring your headphone cables - to what extent and whether good or for worse - depends on the taste of the user.


----------



## mbd2884

Yes its a completely total subjective issue, something only you can answer for yourself as there is no definitive proof for either side.

 But if you wanted to upgrade cable, I would probably just buy from someone local around here.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the better power cable be worth considering for an extra $60? What are peoples views on this?_

 

Expensive power cables are a weird phenomenon. From a physics standpoint it makes hardly any sense at all. Yet people will swear they can hear night and day differences. (Ok, 'night and day' claims from an audiophile can always be taken with a grain of salt.)

 The only thing I know is that I've heard from several customers of Audio-Gd that Kingwa is convinced his products really benefit from a better power cord. And I've seen several reports where people say that this is indeed the case. 

 But basically this is the only real answer: "If it works for you, it's worth the money."

 Oh yeah, I guess you can get an improved power cable locally. The only question is, can you get something for 60$ locally that is of the quality that the Audio-Gd cables seem to be? (Judging by looks alone. I haven't tried them.)


----------



## mbd2884

Will ask in separate thread


----------



## edselfordfong

sandchak, you seem more optimistic than others about the use of this as a pre. 

  Quote:


 Well, if you can take a parallel connection from the headphone jack, drill 2 holes on the back, plug in 2 RCAs, it becomes a preamp out - in which case you must have the headphones unplugged to have the preamp activated.. 
 

does anyone else think this would work?

  Quote:


 I still think it can be used with an amp and speaker through the DAC out, its just that the Volume control of The Compass will be bypassed and you would have to do that with the Amp..
 Correct me if I am wrong.. 
 

I'm not all that concerned about the volume knob. Many less expensive amps have volume control, and since I'll be using it with a PC, I can adjust the volume on the computer, right?

 Does it depend on the level of the signal coming out of the DAC? I imagine that if it's something approaching line-level, that would work fine, but if it's too low I'd have trouble powering speakers. Does anyone have any sense of that, or is it only the volume control that I'd be missing?

 thanks for the input.


----------



## sandchak

If I am not mistaken, and I had written in some earlier post, Kingwa was tinkering with the idea of including the special cable he makes with each compass for the first batch - as according to his experience and tests, he did find the cable bring out the best.. but then I guess he changed his mind as it would be too much of a stretch..

 On the other hand, maybe we could ask him to provide the reviewers (Currawong and Peete) with his handmade cable and we can find if it really makes a difference..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just realised I'd forgotten all about the possibility of using it as a pre-amp, which the Zero can be. I don't think it's a major omission though. It's something that could be considered in the future.

 godluvsxs: Thanks for offering your help with translation. I think Kingwa has quite a bit of stress from worrying about his English, and, not to mention, worrying about the things we say in this thread. Anything that reduces people's stress is a good thing._

 


 That's a big one, I can't believe we missed that! DOH! Wonder if Kingwa is sleeping right now...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sandchak, you seem more optimistic than others about the use of this as a pre. 



 does anyone else think this would work?



 I'm not all that concerned about the volume knob. Many less expensive amps have volume control, and since I'll be using it with a PC, I can adjust the volume on the computer, right?

 Does it depend on the level of the signal coming out of the DAC? I imagine that if it's something approaching line-level, that would work fine, but if it's too low I'd have trouble powering speakers. Does anyone have any sense of that, or is it only the volume control that I'd be missing?

 thanks for the input._

 

Yes, as far as my knowledge goes, it can work both the ways I mentioned, on the second option - Dac out, there will be a problem if you would be using a poweramp, and not integrated or power pre combo.. on the first option, Yes I confirm it can work that way too.

 With the DAC out , you should not have problems running through the PC, I used to do that with the ZERO DAC, bypass the headamp and take the signal right off the DAC and adjust the volume on the PC..

 In any case, thats what my experiance says.. there are many who know better than I do, so they can correct if I am wrong..

 But again, this is Compass we are talking about and Not ZERO.. so maybe you could ask this question directly to Audio GD, they would be in the best position to answer..
 Although I can confirm on the first option, because that info came directly from Audio GD.. (the preamp solution)


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh yeah, I guess you can get an improved power cable locally. The only question is, can you get something for 60$ locally that is of the quality that the Audio-Gd cables seem to be? (Judging by looks alone. I haven't tried them.)_

 

Yeah, for about the same GBP I can get a Mark Grant handmade power cable which looks damn good tbh. I have used his cables before, albeit Component video cables and they are top notch. Very highly regarded over at AV Forums. So I think regardless of whether the power cables Kingwa sells are likely to make a difference, if I order the Compass I will give them a miss. To a large extent my setup is going to be budget, so I think power cables will be one of the last things I think about tbh. Haven't skimped on the headphones though, went for HD650s


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, for about the same GBP I can get a Mark Grant handmade power cable which looks damn good tbh. I have used his cables before, albeit Component video cables and they are top notch. Very highly regarded over at AV Forums. So I think regardless of whether the power cables Kingwa sells are likely to make a difference, if I order the Compass I will give them a miss. To a large extent my setup is going to be budget, so I think power cables will be one of the last things I think about tbh. Haven't skimped on the headphones though, went for HD650s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, I completely agree with your priorities. An expensive power cable would be about the last upgrade I would think of. Certainly good interconnects and even recabling on the headphone would have far more influence on the sound than the possibility of a better delivery of 220V (or 110V).


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Expensive power cables are a weird phenomenon. From a physics standpoint it makes hardly any sense at all. Yet people will swear they can hear night and day differences. (Ok, 'night and day' claims from an audiophile can always be taken with a grain of salt.)_

 

All one needs is the expectation of improvement, and then one will generally hear an improvement. That improvement may not be objectively real (aka measurable) but to that user, it is very real subjectively.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I completely agree with your priorities. An expensive power cable would be about the last upgrade I would think of. Certainly good interconnects and even recabling on the headphone would have far more influence on the sound than the possibility of a better delivery of 220V (or 110V)._

 

I'll bear that in mind thanks! This is my first foray into high fidelity headphones, so I am sure I'll be over the moon with my first amp/DAC... i'm loving the HD650s as it is, and I am only running them from an AV receiver at the moment. Cant wait to have them properly amped!


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All one needs is the expectation of improvement, and then one will generally hear an improvement. That improvement may not be objectively real (aka measurable) but to that user, it is very real subjectively._

 

Thats exactly what I want to avoid right now!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All one needs is the expectation of improvement, and then one will generally hear an improvement. That improvement may not be objectively real (aka measurable) but to that user, it is very real subjectively._

 

Yup, and here is where things get really homeopathic. There is always a certain aspect of audiophilia that is just placebo-effect. The question then becomes: how much are you willing to spend on a placebo? Or perhaps: how much do you have to spend on a placebo for it to be effective for you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love HiFi!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! Sounds as though its probably not going to make the sound $60 better then!? Thought that may be the case tbh_

 

There is no doubt that "some" cables make "some" differences. This is actually fairly easily proven in some instances. Fo a quick "proof" I had some cheap RCA cables in place for burn in recently and had some noise floor/hum issues. It was the lack of shielding in the RCA's. Changed them and the problem went away. I use this as just a simple "proof". Another one is that I had used some spkr cables in the past that were a capacitance issue for the amp I was using, the amp was running very hot and clipping thermal overload protection circuits. Changed to a different Spkr cable with lower capacitance and the sound was much more detailed and the amp ran dead cool. These are simple "proofs" that different cables do something.

 That being said, the guy selling the $4000-$5000 Power cables in the Cable/Tweak FS forum is to be avoided like the Plague to me.

 Before I would consider how much improvement I would get from a Power cable, I would make sure my Interconnects from my SC was good, my RCA's to my AMP were good, I liked my Headphone connector and cable, etc. Lots of room for improvements in those areas. 

 You could also source some good shielded cables and plugs and make your own Power cables, and have fun doing it. I would leverage that $60 almost anywhere else until all those areas were "up to snuff" and then consider the Power Cable. Kind of a Bang for the buck type analysis. 

 After you max everything else out, buy one of those $5000 power cables and write a nice review of it for us all. Inquiring minds want to know! 

 Just my 2 cents, YMMV


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no doubt that "some" cables make "some" differences. This is actually fairly easily proven in some instances. Fo a quick "proof" I had some cheap RCA cables in place for burn in recently and had some noise floor/hum issues. It was the lack of shielding in the RCA's. Changed them and the problem went away. I use this as just a simple "proof". Another one is that I had used some spkr cables in the past that were a capacitance issue for the amp I was using, the amp was running very hot and clipping thermal overload protection circuits. Changed to a different Spkr cable with lower capacitance and the sound was much more detailed and the amp ran dead cool. These are simple "proofs" that different cables do something._

 

couldn't agree with you more Les, I have used plenty of cheap video cables in the past and the first time I ever used a quality cable I realised what I had been missing! I am by no means a video or audiophile but enjoy having "above average" video (and now hopefully audio).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That being said, the guy selling the $4000-$5000 Power cables in the Cable/Tweak FS forum is to be avoided like the Plague to me.

 Before I would consider how much improvement I would get from a Power cable, I would make sure my Interconnects from my SC was good, my RCA's to my AMP were good, I liked my Headphone connector and cable, etc. Lots of room for improvements in those areas. 

 You could also source some good shielded cables and plugs and make your own Power cables, and have fun doing it. I would leverage that $60 almost anywhere else until all those areas were "up to snuff" and then consider the Power Cable. Kind of a Bang for the buck type analysis. 

 After you max everything else out, buy one of those $5000 power cables and write a nice review of it for us all. Inquiring minds want to know!_

 


 I wish I had the money to even consider buying a $5000 power cable, but I have only just finished a masters degree in university and just realised I fancy a change of direction - which could mean another few years again of getting a crappy wage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe in a few years if all my study pays off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm actually thinking of taking up electrical engineering... so maybe in a few years I could build my own components instead! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some good advise Les, I will certainly look at all the things you have talked about. I have been planning to get some good quality cables and have been in the process of making sure much of my music collection is lossless ready for when I have equipment that will warrant this!


----------



## Alai

Wow, this Compass looks absolutely phenomenal. I want it. Now. Lol.

 Btw, maybe I'm blind, but could someone point out which heaphone amp they are going to be using?


----------



## mbd2884

Its a custom designed discrete headphone amp. He made a sort of bypass with it so if you ever wanted to just use it as an amp you could. The amp surpassed Kingwa's expectations.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_couldn't agree with you more Les, I have used plenty of cheap video cables in the past and the first time I ever used a quality cable I realised what I had been missing! I am by no means a video or audiophile but enjoy having "above average" video (and now hopefully audio)._

 



 Video Cable, Excellent Example!!

  Quote:


 
 I wish I had the money to even consider buying a $5000 power cable, but I have only just finished a masters degree in university and just realised I fancy a change of direction - which could mean another few years again of getting a crappy wage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe in a few years if all my study pays off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm actually thinking of taking up electrical engineering... so maybe in a few years I could build my own components instead! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some good advise Les, I will certainly look at all the things you have talked about. I have been planning to get some good quality cables and have been in the process of making sure much of my music collection is lossless ready for when I have equipment that will warrant this! 
 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, this Compass looks absolutely phenomenal. I want it. Now. Lol.

 Btw, maybe I'm blind, but could someone point out which heaphone amp they are going to be using?_

 

He Builds his own. It is the medium sized board on the Compass page. One Big Board is the DAC, the Med Board is the Head amp, the little board is the Power Supply Board.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjojoj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you be kind enough to elaborate on that remark? 
 1st impression, huh? I am definitely not here to make any impression. I have been viewing this thread for a long time and have been very close to posting before but I just felt the urge too strong this time. The way I see it, it is completely possible to be respectful and viewing critically at the same time. I feel that Les has been a bit on the disrespectfull provocative side a couple of times in this thread. As have a couple of others, but there have not been much substance in their posts so those I've just read and been done with.

 Speeking of respect and first impressions, I'm sorry to say that you haven't been very successful in that area with this last post of yours. 

 Well, I think we (as in some of us here) could very well fill numerous pages in this thread explaining ourselves, questioning each other etc. If anyone needs any clarification from me, please ask.

 Thank you all for all of the info in this thread. Especially the one/those who started the thread and have been kind enough to share the info with the rest of us._

 

C'mon.....could your first post be anymore off the beaten track than it was ?

 A completely OT and counterproductive 1st post, there's your explanation. 

 This thread is for the Compass....let's keep it that way....


 Peete.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm actually thinking of taking up electrical engineering... so maybe in a few years I could build my own components instead! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Im just about to graduate with a BSEE this May, if you have any questions about the major, the job outlook, or whatever, feel free to PM.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im just about to graduate with a BSEE this May, if you have any questions about the major, the job outlook, or whatever, feel free to PM.



_

 

You two guys need to Partner up, put a Factory together in China, and start building some stuff!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Basically you buy a "zillion" parts from Prickly Peete for $50 or so and see if you can desolder and resolder on that POS Zero PCB without lifting all the traces on it. If you had to pay someone to do it, it would probably go for around $100-$150 in labor on top of the parts. The Zero board is difficult to work with if you are used to "Big Name" stuff by Sony, Western Digital, Panasonic, etc because of how thin the traces are and the fact that the thru holes are not metalized.

 Hope that helps._

 

Of all the pcb's I seen/worked this past year and years past, the Zero's is by no means a POS. It's actually fairly high quality compared to what I've worked on (some surprising examples of poor quality in so called high quality expensive name brands). It's as fragile as any other I've worked on thus far....removing parts is not easy and requires multiple strategies if the manual method is not successful at first crack (the idea being to cause no damage). It boils down to tools and skill.......You are correct about the labor cost which is why it's a DIY kit. In fact the Zero's PCB for it's selling price is quite good when you take into account the parts used, the topology etc....it's the human element that is at issue of late.


 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of all the pcb's I seen/worked this past year and years past, the Zero's is by no means a POS. It's actually fairly high quality compared to what I've worked on (some surprising examples of poor quality in so called high quality expensive name brands). It's as fragile as any other I've worked on thus far....removing parts is not easy and requires multiple strategies if the manual method is not successful at first crack (the idea being to cause no damage). It boils down to tools and skill.......You are correct about the labor cost which is why it's a DIY kit. In fact the Zero's PCB for it's selling price is quite good when you take into account the parts used, the topology etc....it's the human element that is at issue of late.


 Peete._

 

I'm sure the skill level is a lot of some issues here. The thru holes are what I had never worked with before. Basically lack of skill and experience on my part. The thru holes being non-metalized really makes them more difficult to work with, at least to me.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im just about to graduate with a BSEE this May, if you have any questions about the major, the job outlook, or whatever, feel free to PM.




_

 

Thanks dBs! I may take you up on that! 

 You guys are really giving some good help and advise! Are you guys always this helpful to new members!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I reckon you are all trying to sweeten me up so you can skin me and sell my organs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only kidding, I really appreciate the replies


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks dBs! I may take you up on that! 

 You guys are really giving some good help and advise! Are you guys always this helpful to new members!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I reckon you are all trying to sweeten me up so you can skin me and sell my organs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only kidding, I really appreciate the replies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I dont think were as interested in organic parts as we are electrical parts. Were the sort that, were you on your deathbed, would say "if you die, can I have your stereo?"


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I only just read the updates to the compass page. I think Kingwa has far exceeded what I imagined he'd come up with for this. Sound tuning and gain options, not to mention the discreet and separately usable headphone amp should make this an exceptionally versatile unit._

 

Agreed CW. 

 A hearty thanks to Kingwa and the staff at audio-gd is in order for doing this for us !!!

 I don't get excited to much over gear these days but this little beauty has my curiosity meter pegged !

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The cable issue......well I've seen and been through both ends of that spectrum...from paying stupid money for cables to cheaping out on them and wishing I hadn't....with that said it is my opinion that all gear can benefit from well made cables (that does not mean expensive). With mains cables that come with 99% of most gear sold they are for the most part utter garbage. It doesn't take much to improve upon a 4 dollar mains cable folks. The stock cable and a fancier aftermarket cable both deliver the electrons equally...it's the ability to reject unwanted radiation in the form of EMI/RFI/Wireless electronics signals and the garbage that resides on your AC lines themselves that separates the 2. Plug metallurgy,contact pressure all play there parts but the main issue is noise rejection abilities while allowing good electricity flow.

 Many DIY recipes and inexpensive aftermarket good quality types will make an audible difference IMO. This has been my observations over the years. Just be glad there are good cables to choose from...pre 1982 there weren't that many to speak of. I made all of mine before 82 including speaker cables....hell, speakers used to come with 18 gage zip cord in the 70's......awful stuff. The binding posts were nickel silver pot metal screw terminals or worse a 50 cent spring loaded push tab with hardly any metal contact area. One of my early mods was to use heavy duty wire from a commercial level extension cable and wire the outputs from the amp (direct from the amps outputs bypassing the crappy connectors) and go directly to the terminals of the speakers crossover (bypassing the crappy binding posts) The difference that made was astounding and as a result all my friends and relatives wanted their rigs done. That got me started in DIY tinkering.........

 I digress....

 I think ferrite chokes and heavy shielding are a must for today's mains supply cables simply because of the noise pollution present from the wall outlet (from the multitudes of digital switch mode PSU's, wall warts, clocks,chargers etc etc that inject noise into your lines locally) and the air waves. Think about how much high freq hash is injected just from the 5 homes around you (then multiply that by hundreds)....it all adds up and is a main reason why line conditioners are almost a must now whereas before the web and wireless a line conditioner was nearly unheard of and a ridiculous unneeded expense. Anyone think they are unneeded now (if you have a really serious and expensive rig ) ?

 Back to the mains cable.....

 A good quality (Belden or Canare) double shielded 3 wire 14 gage cable with decent plugs (Shurter or Hubbel) and ferrite rings at both ends will set you back about 35 dollars if you make your own. It's easy to do, parts are readily available and most of all it improves the sonic qualities of the gear it's used on.

 All that matters is if you hear an improvement and can live with the added expense. I can and have.

 Simple as that.

 Sorry for the long post.....I have some time to kill 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## edselfordfong

I'm also getting excited about this, and think it's incredible how responsive audio-gd has been.

 However, I think that the lack of a pre-amp is a shame. Without that function, it's a fairly esoteric piece of equipment, firmly aimed at a small segment of audiophiles, namely headphone types. With a pre-amp, I can recommend this thing to just about everyone I know. 

 Most people I know:
have a PC and a digital music collection;
have some aspiration to move past the crappy stereo they got at best buy;
but are totally befuddled when I start to talk about components, or even see the size of my system.

 I know that I could convince many of my friends to try something like this by saying: dust off an old laptop, get a Compass and some decent cans and you'll be experiencing world-class sound that'll forever change your relationship with music. (I recently had this experience with my dad's v-can and HD-600s, so the feeling is very fresh for me.) But when you're ready to fill a room with music, just add a t-amp and some quality high efficiency speakers and you'll have a whole other audio experience.

 For me, like most of you, the preamp isn't a deal-breaker. I already have a great loudspeaker system. But I'm suggesting that we look at the bigger picture. With just a few more switches and jacks, this thing could have a much, much wider audience. I mean, this thing has the potential to be the keystone of an excellent, simple, inexpensive, PC-based complete audio system. That's a holy grail for a lot of people. Am I the only one who sees it that way?

 Ultimately, it's up to Kingwa to do what he wants. From this thread and his site, it seems he cares more about audio than market segments, which is absolutely to his credit. I'd just hate for someone else to come along and have a blockbuster with a very similar product.

 So, in the end, I guess I just want to encourage him to think about a pre-amp version of this. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here -- the compass isn't even out yet (although, if he committed to a pre version, I'd probably wait for that one rather than purchase the compass right away). 

 I did email him today about it, although I made this argument less forcefully. My feelings have hardened about it this afternoon, I guess.

 BTW, is the super mode engaged by an external switch, or jumpers? Personally I can envision in the future adding a tube h/a to the dac out, and eventually a power amp to the Compass's amp circuit. That might make an excellent secondary system in my office, for my kid, or hell, even to travel with.


----------



## mbd2884

I think you missed the blazingly obvious and clearly stated, THIS IS A HEADPHONE forum. Not only that this is a HEADPHONE amp forum.

 No I do not think it needs to be changed to fit your needs for a pre-amp for your speaker system. It was designed to be initially as a project to be another option other than then Zero. It was designed to be a HEADPHONE DAC/AMP, not a pre-amp.

 Kingwa surpassed all my expectations. This is a forum for Headphone Amps not preamps for your speaker system. So no, I don't think Kingwa needs to make this into a preamp, if you want to modify your own Compass to do so, go ahead. 

 I think it should remain a DAC/AMP dedicated for headphones, since it was designed to be so.

 I received some pictures today, and I can so just wow. What great workmanship, everything is so clean, no messy wires or anything.

 I agree as Peet, a thank you to Kingwa for doing a great job on creating a dedicated headphone DAC/AMP so far. I hope it sounds as great as it looks.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received some pictures today, and I can so just wow. What great workmanship, everything is so clean, no messy wires or anything._

 

Pictures showing the inside? Probably the same I got unless there are new ones... I don't care, I'd rather see them shipping than see more pictures at this point so I hope he got those knobs in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 I agree as Peet, a thank you to Kingwa for doing a great job on creating a dedicated headphone DAC/AMP so far. I hope it sounds as great as it looks. 
 

In particular I think it's nice to see a company take so much interest in what its customers want and develop something to satisfy those needs. Not only does that serve Audio-gd well but it serves all of us that want a product like this.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you missed the blazingly obvious and clearly stated, THIS IS A HEADPHONE forum. Not only that this is a HEADPHONE amp forum.

 No I do not think it needs to be changed to fit your needs for a pre-amp for your speaker system. It was designed to be initially as a project to be another option other than then Zero. It was designed to be a HEADPHONE DAC/AMP, not a pre-amp.

 Kingwa surpassed all my expectations. This is a forum for Headphone Amps not preamps for your speaker system. So no, I don't think Kingwa needs to make this into a preamp, if you want to modify your own Compass to do so, go ahead. 

 I think it should remain a DAC/AMP dedicated for headphones, since it was designed to be so.

 I received some pictures today, and I can so just wow. What great workmanship, everything is so clean, no messy wires or anything.

 I agree as Peet, a thank you to Kingwa for doing a great job on creating a dedicated headphone DAC/AMP so far. I hope it sounds as great as it looks._

 


 The Zero acts as a Pre Amp also....


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Maybe I am showing my noobness here, but can't it act as a preamp by just plugging the output of the headamp or DAC into the input of another amp? Or is the problem here that speaker amps accept different inputs? Are you guys looking for an RCA (i think that is what it is called) out?


----------



## sandchak

I agree it isnt a deal breake , I mean its not that Compass cannot have a preamp out, or isn't designed to have one, I asked him to make make one for me - that was 10 days back, so I guess he had the time to accommodate that feature.. If you ask him now, he would do the same for anyone, its just that I think with the Chinese new year round the corner, he wouldn't have the time to make that adjustment and ship before the shipping blackout..
 So, guys like me for whom a preamp out is kind of a must, can address this directly to him, and I think he would oblige, with the additional cost for the 2 RCAs and drilling holes at the back of the Compass.

 In any case, this is something we missed out while suggesting the specs..


----------



## dBs

Maybe its because Ive never heard a high end speaker system, but Ive always preferred the sound of a good set of cans myself. Its just more intimate, more detailed. However, Ive always been a strong believer in buying into versatility for future preparation, even if it comes at a premium. I would be more than happy to pay an extra $40-50USD to pre-amp the Compass.

 At the very least, I might be willing to work with someone more experienced to create a DIY mod for it. Ill probably be the bumbling fool whos hand needs to be held since I have no real world experience yet with engineering. If I worked with someone with more experience though, I think a mod could be accomplished.

 A good thing in the Compasses favor is that its a modulated build. Every component of the system is compartmentalized on a different board from the other elements. This should make it simple enough to just take the desired piece out and build a new one in its stead. This may require recasing, but it certainly makes things easier.


----------



## Tyson

One caveat, I have a BUNCH of audio gd equipment (see my sig), and I can say that it takes a looooooooong time to fully break in. Longer than any other audio gear I've ever owned (and I've owned a LOT in my time). In fact, I feel that the stuff I have now is just now really hitting it's (considerable) stride after 6 monthos of ownership and constant use. Out of the box everything sounds quite analytical and dry. It takes several hundred hours of use before it starts to relax and become musical. But, BOY is it ever worth the wait!


----------



## mbd2884

Tyson how did you initially discover Audio-dg?


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tyson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One caveat, I have a BUNCH of audio gd equipment (see my sig), and I can say that it takes a looooooooong time to fully break in. Longer than any other audio gear I've ever owned (and I've owned a LOT in my time). In fact, I feel that the stuff I have now is just now really hitting it's (considerable) stride after 6 monthos of ownership and constant use. Out of the box everything sounds quite analytical and dry. It takes several hundred hours of use before it starts to relax and become musical. But, BOY is it ever worth the wait!_

 

Maybe, Im a college student though, Im basically plugged in 24/7 XD Itll be worse if I have to do grad school.


----------



## Drosera

Well, you heard it, all you guys will just have to hang in there for six more months untill the first reviews can come out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But honestly, this is one of the things I'm mulling over as well. When is it time to do a review on my Compass? Especially because I do burn-in the slow way, by listening to it all the while.

 I guess every review should leave plenty of room for updates.


----------



## sandchak

I have read Tyson's reviews - He really has an awesome gear ! Thanks, it was some kind of inspiration and I might be heading that way in a few years - thats if time and wallet allows..
 I guess through his personal experience, I have learnt a lot about Audio GD's customer service and the kind of products they make.


----------



## Currawong

Kingwa is going to add a switch for the pre-amp function which is already built in after the Chinese New Year. It'll be on the back though as there isn't room on the front. The very first models wont have it.

 I'll review his power cable as well. It'll be a first for me trying a commercial power cable.


----------



## Tyson

I don't think the Compass will take as long to break in. In my experience, the more capacitors, output devices, and bigger the transformers, the longer it takes something to fully burn in. The DAC8, C1, and C3 are all insanely overbuilt in this regard (we're talking past Krell and Levinson here). The C3 and DAC8 were especially hard to get fully burned in. The Compass, being quite a bit more compact should break in nicely over a month or 2 of 24x7 use. I highly, highly recommend the IsoTek system optimization burn in CD, it speeds things along quite nicely. $30 on ebay, but totally worth it.

 mbd2884, I stumbled across them a few months ago when I was revamping my entire system. I live in a condo in downtown Denver and I have terrible AC and huge amounts of RFI and EMI (thank you 3g networks and wireless N routers!). Anyway, I wanted a fully balanced system to deal with the common noise at least. I was leaning very heavily toward Pass Labs for my preamp and amp, then I read about the Krell CAST version of connecting gear, and ran across the audio-gd web page while researching current audio connections, and the rest (as they say) is history. Kingwa was awesome to deal with, particularly when my first DAC8, C1, and C3 were ALL "lost" by DHL (friggin thieves), and he replaced EVERYTHING at no cost to me whatsoever. Awesome company, awesome service. Plus, the DAC8 is upgradable to the new Reference 1 status in March, so I will be doing that as well (for a nominal fee, of course). Kingwa is very smart in how he designs his equipment, it's fully modular and thus fully upgradable, very nice, IMO.


----------



## Alai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa is going to add a switch for the pre-amp function, which is already in there. It'll be on the back though as there isn't room on the front. That's that problem solved.

 I'll review his power cable as well. It'll be a first for me trying a commercial power cable._

 

Holy moly. This Kingwa guy rocks. Will he be at the Meet at LAX?

 EDIT: Also, in all honesty and without any condescending tone or anything, can I please edit the Audio gd website for proper grammar and spelling and such?


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa is going to add a switch for the pre-amp function, which is already in there. It'll be on the back though as there isn't room on the front. That's that problem solved.

 I'll review his power cable as well. It'll be a first for me trying a commercial power cable._

 

謝謝你 Kingwa!


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you missed the blazingly obvious and clearly stated, THIS IS A HEADPHONE forum. Not only that this is a HEADPHONE amp forum.

 No I do not think it needs to be changed to fit your needs for a pre-amp for your speaker system. It was designed to be initially as a project to be another option other than then Zero. It was designed to be a HEADPHONE DAC/AMP, not a pre-amp.

 Kingwa surpassed all my expectations. This is a forum for Headphone Amps not preamps for your speaker system. So no, I don't think Kingwa needs to make this into a preamp, if you want to modify your own Compass to do so, go ahead. 

 I think it should remain a DAC/AMP dedicated for headphones, since it was designed to be so.

 I received some pictures today, and I can so just wow. What great workmanship, everything is so clean, no messy wires or anything.

 I agree as Peet, a thank you to Kingwa for doing a great job on creating a dedicated headphone DAC/AMP so far. I hope it sounds as great as it looks._

 

Listen, I think we agree that it's a cool project. Forget about my needs (I came here for headphone audio, too, but headphones don't exist in a vacuum). I want the Compass to be successful, given the good job that he's done on it, as you describe. It is my opinion that he'd reach more people with the minimal modifications sandchak describes. I have no doubt that your average Head-fier doesn't care about the pre, or would be up for the mods, but I suspect that many people, especially audio noobs, wouldn't be comfortable even emailing him about it. (DayoftheGreek, I'm a bigger noob than you, so yes as I understand it, all we're really talking about is maybe a switch and RCA outs, to reassure people that they are using this thing properly).

 Anyway, Kingwa already got back to me (amazing, the guy must never sleep) repeating what Sandchak wrote, and with Currawong's report, it seems there's nothing for me to fret about.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tyson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa was awesome to deal with, particularly when my first DAC8, C1, and C3 were ALL "lost" by DHL (friggin thieves), and he replaced EVERYTHING at no cost to me whatsoever._

 

That says a lot about a persons business priorities. Very upstanding. Cant say as I would be THAT accommodating if I made my own business, but I can certainly appreciate it in others.


----------



## sandchak

In fact, I think he is doing even better than what I described.. he is making just a switch behind so that from the DAC out itself you get the pre amp signal with a press of a switch .. my poor Compass - with two extra holes !!..

 I am just guessing though.. and if I am right with my guess, the only thing good about my Compass would be its a prototype ! good or bad - again debatable..


----------



## sandchak

Hoorah !! Compass Pictures are UP on his web site !!!!

 I guess 2 holes need to be drilled on the back plate in any case for preamp out...


----------



## dBs

Pictures here (probably shouldnt direct link them): ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 That definitely looks good from here. Coming soon to a review near you!

 So, lets see if I understand this OPA right. It comes with one style of your choice, and if you wish you can get an additional style for $20USD? So Id get Earth, and choose Moon for example?

 NEVERMIND, I got it.


----------



## sandchak

Moon comes as default with Compass.. you can buy either SUN or Earth for USD20..( or even another moon if you wish for USD20)..


----------



## Taikero

Now THAT is one sexy looking DAC/Amp.

 Although really, "Ear Out" instead of "HP Out" or something similar? It's almost giggle-worthy, in a bad way.

 Maybe a small headphone image like this one wouldn't be a bad idea: http://www.thedigitalbucket.com/wp-c...phone_icon.gif

 I'm not sure how Kingwa is applying the lettering, so maybe an image is too difficult/expensive for this product.


 Another thought (which I'm sure was noticed already) is that some of the connectors in the back are covering up the lettering.


 Finally, on the front side, perhaps "Input Selection" or "Input Selector" or "Source Selection" would be more intuitive (Although yes, I understand that it's difficult for people to mess this one up, I think it would make the product feel more complete).


 Other than those three small gripes, it looks fantastic!


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy moly. This Kingwa guy rocks. Will he be at the Meet at LAX?

 EDIT: Also, in all honesty and without any condescending tone or anything, can I please edit the Audio gd website for proper grammar and spelling and such?_

 

I'll probably write up a FAQ as I did for the Zero. I'm thinking of writing a basic DAC guide, as I see lots of confused questions elsewhere about these things.

 Just a note, Kingwa emailed me about the pre-amp switch: It wont be in the first units, only the ones after Chinese New Year. I've edited my previous post to reflect this.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Taikero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Although really, "Ear Out" instead of "HP Out" or something similar? It's almost giggle-worthy, in a bad way.

 Maybe a small headphone image like this one wouldn't be a bad idea: http://www.thedigitalbucket.com/wp-c...phone_icon.gif

 I'm not sure how Kingwa is applying the lettering, so maybe an image is too difficult/expensive for this product.

 Another thought (which I'm sure was noticed already) is that some of the connectors in the back are covering up the lettering.

 Finally, on the front side, perhaps "Input Selection" or "Input Selector" or "Source Selection" would be more intuitive (Although yes, I understand that it's difficult for people to mess this one up, I think it would make the product feel more complete).

 Other those three small gripes, it looks fantastic!_

 

I'd add that it appears the Ear Out is a little off centre. I'd even go as far as saying "Input" would be sufficient 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. 

 I'm surprised that even the backplate is aluminium. I guess it really a full aluminium chassis as described. 

 Being really really nitpicky here but I'd have preferred black buttons for Power and Super (which I also think should have been named Bypass but oh well). Also not really a fan of the font. And would have preferred if the two silver buttons were next to each other like the two bigger black knobs. 

 Enough of how it looks though... how does it SOUND?


----------



## dBs

I guess all thats left now is hearing the reviews and hoping that it will pair well with DT770 and/or D2000.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess all thats left now is hearing the reviews and hoping that it will pair well with DT770 and/or D2000._

 

I think he has used 4 headphones while developing Compass - Sens 650, Akg 701, Grado SR80 and D2000, so I presume the D2000 should go well with Compass, but then it depends on the sound preference of the user, and also with the options to modify the signature of the sound and adjust gain, should make it suitable for many other headphones..


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Looks awesome overall! Matches my HTPC perfectly, so I may HAVE to get one now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do agree with some of the comments about the colour of the buttons, the choice of labels used and the fact the connectors on the rear are covering part of the labels.... it would certainly look more professional and slick if these things were addressed - but to be completely honest as long as the Compass sonically turns out to be worth the money then I couldn't care less about any of those things!

 The addition of a preamp out has to be a welcome one, I know its definitely something that I might use in the future.


----------



## oldschool

Nice looks. Could do with a little bit more polish. I would rather have the 'Super' named 'Bypass', also some of the labels are off-center. 

 I also think the black NJ3FP6C-B Neutrik plug will look better. This one also has gold contacts, while the silver one, well, silver ones


----------



## mbd2884

The first few being shipped out are proto types it seems. I don't think prototypes are always cosmetically perfect as the object is getting the sound and the equipment itself perfect first.

 Just as he has shown great attention to detail, Kingwa will also on the final product cosmetically.

 I personally don't mind any of it, I think its looks great. Its the interior that makes me really excited, its so clean, organized and definitely shows a lot of creative thought was put into designing this piece. I've been looking at a few other DAC/AMP combos, and this one by far has the cleanest, organized design I've seen yet. And excellent use of space. It looks as though it will be able to look great on a desk, no need for a stand.


----------



## oldschool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been looking at a few other DAC/AMP combos, and this one by far has the cleanest, organized design I've seen yet._

 

I agree on that. Very neat looking insides.


----------



## csroc

Looks great! Hopefully the 18 which are shipping do have the labeling adjusted so it all lines up a bit better, other than that nothing wrong with it I think. It looks very well put together, even the unit he shows pictures of which I imagine was probably the first one and sort of a development rig.

 Kingwa should number the first 18... make those people feel extra special!


----------



## mbd2884

Just email him, I'm sure you can get that. But may cost more, but definitely will take more time as he will probably have to order one for your unit.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also think the black NJ3FP6C-B Neutrik plug will look better. This one also has gold contacts, while the silver one, well, silver ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## buzzsaw

Guys, maybe you can shed some light on a confusing issue for me. 

 When the Compass is set to "Super" (aka bypass) mode, the DAC becomes seperated from the Amp section. This allows you to input a pure analog signal via the "line-in" jacks, which would then be routed to the amp section. Conversely, the DAC-outs become active in Super mode, allowing you to output the DAC signal to another amp.

 So, if you are outputting the DAC signal via the DAC-Out, how is this different from a Pre-Amp out? Isn't it the same thing? You would be sending the decoded digital signal in analog format out of the DAC outs to another device/amp... am I missing something? Why the need for another set of Pre-Amp outs?

 Thanks.


----------



## csroc

That output from the DAC won't have volume control applied which is a function of a preamp that people are looking for. 

 Still, that "Super" mode will allow some other interesting things, you could pass the signal trough a crossfeed or an EQ if you want and then route it back in to the headphone amplifier section.


----------



## buzzsaw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That output from the DAC won't have volume control applied which is a function of a preamp that people are looking for._

 

So now I'm posed with the terrible decision of waiting for a pre-amp modified Compass, or buying one of the test models.

 I just got my HD650's this week, and I'm dying to try them out with something other than my Onkyo home theater receiver. I don't think I can wait until Feb 8...


----------



## csroc

I don't need this thing to be a preamp so I wouldn't care about it nor would I want to wait.


----------



## sandchak

I can see, he has put up the pics of the preamp modified Compass (MY!!) too.. I like the black rounded dials - looks kind of classical IMHO.. though some alignment would be good..


----------



## mbd2884

Kingwa notified me that he will be shipping my Compass on the 19th. He wants to make sure the Compass has been burned in for 100 hours and quality control.

 While I would love to have my Compass now, I don't mind letting Kingwa burn in the unit, will sound even better when I first open the package!

 I will be counting the days, thank god I have a date on Sunday to look forward to keep my mind off of this.


----------



## direcow

If there are any huge upgrades after the first 18 have been reviewed... do the first 18 get any... free upgrades of sorts?


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If there are any huge upgrades after the first 18 have been reviewed... do the first 18 get any... free upgrades of sorts?_

 

Like a Kingwa badge or something?


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *buzzsaw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So now I'm posed with the terrible decision of waiting for a pre-amp modified Compass, or buying one of the test models.

 I just got my HD650's this week, and I'm dying to try them out with something other than my Onkyo home theater receiver. I don't think I can wait until Feb 8..._

 

Same here Buzzsaw, I just bought some HD650s and cannot wait to hear them via a decent DAC/amp instead of my AV receiver! I'm quite impressed with them already, and just know I'm going to be blown away when they are actually being amped properly. I should have a Zero arriving in the mean time though, which will hopefully tide me over until some reviews of this unit have emerged. I've been so tempted just to order this, even e-mailed Kingwa a few days ago telling him that I was probably looking to buy. As with a few others, he asked me if I would like to wait for some reviews to emerge first, but of course would have been willing to accept the order. So I am going to do the sensible thing and see how it pans out.

 The whole preamp business has made me kind of glad I am waiting too. One other thing that made me want to wait, was the prospect of perhaps some small teething problems that may occur with initial units, and of course the fact that we will actually have some reviews of it from Peete and Currawong. It would have been nice to say that I was one of the first people in the UK to have this DAC, but the sensible part of me (which is quickly dying the more I read things on this site) tells me to hold back a few weeks at least!


----------



## buzzsaw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...but the sensible part of me (which is quickly dying the more I read things on this site) tells me to hold back a few weeks at least!_

 

I know. This site is dangerous. Had I never discovered Head-Fi I might have been blissfull in my ignorance; with some headphones from Guitar Center plugged in to my iPod... but now the spiral into obsession has begun.


----------



## mbd2884

Hmm I would take it slow and take your time Buzzsaw.

 I joined back in 2005 and this the first DAC/AMP I have purchased.

 Got plenty of time to decide how you want to enjoy your music.

 Although with only 8 posts and just joined in 2009, you certainly have gone head long straight with your HD650. Gratz!


----------



## glitch39

*got a question:

 from the pics of the back, it says "DAC OUT". I take it that's fixed line out? GD-audio mentioned that if customer want the preamp function, there will be a third set of RCA jacks. Just wondering why that is. looks redundant to me, anyway..... they could have done it like how the zero has it currently*


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice looks. Could do with a little bit more polish. I would rather have the 'Super' named 'Bypass', also some of the labels are off-center. 

 I also think the black NJ3FP6C-B Neutrik plug will look better. This one also has gold contacts, while the silver one, well, silver ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Swapping for that jack should be a pretty easy task for most people to do on their own at home.


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah I may do not that myself if I think it needs to be done. But I don't think the sound from silver to gold will make an audible difference, its just gold plating will prevent corrosion, last longer.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Silver supposedly is more electron friendly than gold.....the jacks that I find most worthy (from a bang for buck standpoint) are billet copper with gold plating rather than brass and gold plating. They may cost more than the brass/gold jacks but they are far less costly than WBT/Cardass types using copper/silver/rhodium.

 There are CMC jacks sold by DIY HI FI that are copper/gold...I forget the price per pair though.

 Anyway the brass/gold CMC's are good enough for this level of gear (budget stuff). The Ref 1 DAC on the other hand would most likely benefit from higher quality jacks (if they aren't standard already).

 Of course I would be the last person to say better jacks on anything audio related isn't worthwhile no matter what there metal content.

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Listen, I think we agree that it's a cool project. Forget about my needs (I came here for headphone audio, too, but headphones don't exist in a vacuum). I want the Compass to be successful, given the good job that he's done on it, as you describe. It is my opinion that he'd reach more people with the minimal modifications sandchak describes. I have no doubt that your average Head-fier doesn't care about the pre, or would be up for the mods, but I suspect that many people, especially audio noobs, wouldn't be comfortable even emailing him about it. (DayoftheGreek, I'm a bigger noob than you, so yes as I understand it, all we're really talking about is maybe a switch and RCA outs, to reassure people that they are using this thing properly).

 Anyway, Kingwa already got back to me (amazing, the guy must never sleep) repeating what Sandchak wrote, and with Currawong's report, it seems there's nothing for me to fret about._

 

Hi,
 You're in the right place, you asked the right question, and you pointed out that this feature got missed in the features request up front. The Zero does this and it's very handy. Your input is appreciated.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If there are any huge upgrades after the first 18 have been reviewed... do the first 18 get any... free upgrades of sorts?_

 

Yep they get the upgraded pricing....258US rather than 399.99 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....in other words who is going to pay the return shipping cost to HK for a pair of jacks, some silver wiring and a toggle switch ? 15 dollars worth of parts....(if that) ? I'm not trying to be smart DC, just practical so please do not take offense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The mod is simple and straight forward, so of the first 18 lucky recipients if any need this functionality, can DIY Mod their own units....IMO at least.

 Someone who needs this functionality...please document it and take pics so it can posted for those that need the extra direction/help to duplicate the ECO (engineering change order....LOL). 

 I'll have my hands full with the review(s) and other planned mods on unrelated gear. The Vanguard CDM12 Pro transport review is also on the to do list for the next 2 weeks (followed by a radical mod, if I can fit it in the narrow chassis). It's relevant because that will be the primary spinner for the Compass evaluations (I want to use the best stuff I have in this process).

 Peete.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Extremely nice looking unit IMHO. Looks like it costs alot more than the $250 asking price.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep they get the upgraded pricing....258US rather than 399.99 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....in other words who is going to pay the return shipping cost to HK for a pair of jacks, some silver wiring and a toggle switch ? 15 dollars worth of parts....(if that) ? I'm not trying to be smart DC, just practical so please do not take offense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The mod is simple and straight forward, so of the first 18 lucky recipients if any need this functionality, can DIY Mod their own units....IMO at least.

 Someone who needs this functionality...please document it and take pics so it can posted for those that need the extra direction/help to duplicate the ECO (engineering change order....LOL). 

 I'll have my hands full with the review(s) and other planned mods on unrelated gear. The Vanguard CDM12 Pro transport review is also on the to do list for the next 2 weeks (followed by a radical mod, if I can fit it in the narrow chassis). It's relevant because that will be the primary spinner for the Compass evaluations (I want to use the best stuff I have in this process).

 Peete._

 

Hi Peete,
 Do you think $399 is likely?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Well I would imagine the price will settle in between 358 and 399US before shipping after the promo offer is over with ....it's just a guess on my part Les. Even at 358 + it's quite a lot of unit for not a lot of money.

 This is just a guess folks.....I have not been told anything WRT to after promo pricing nor have I asked.

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Agreed Pricklely, I see no reason this couldn't be $399. Build quality looks very good and choice of components and design really makes it look like a stiff competitor (and a more complicated and well organized and put together device) than some units that cost more than that. I am truly excited for what this device can hopefully do.


----------



## Alai

So the promo pricing is 258USD which will go on for a few months after the intial shipment. This promo pricing only applies to the units without preamping?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Agreed csroc......as Tyson points out though (as has been my experience as well with Kingwa's gear) the burn in periods are lengthy so patience will not only be needed but a requirement.

 Obviously my review unit will only have 100 hours factory burn in plus 7 x 24 hours ...er um....264 hours in total when I write the (preliminary) conclusion on it's sonic qualities/abilities for the review...which will be updated at 700 and 1.2K hours.

 How many would like me to add a mid fi (class C) Vinyl rig as one of the sources in this review ? If there is enough interest in that source type I will include it. 

 Speak up for the TT source inclusion...Yea or Nay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the promo pricing is 258USD which will go on for a few months after the intial shipment. This promo pricing only applies to the units without preamping?_

 

The promo lasts for quite a while...go to the web page and read all about it...here's the link....http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/DAC-Compass.htm


 Peete.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

I am personally quite excited to see how well the different jumpers can color the sound. I can't wait to play around with those as soon as I get my hands on this unit.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Very nice looking piece of kit - certainly nicer than the Zero... especially with the ghastly stock blue LEDs. Spoke to Kingwa earlier in the week(what a friendly guy! It's always nice talking to him), and I should be one of the first lot, being shipped on the 19th January. Would be nice if it arrived one day next week, but I'm in no real rush.

 I have a lot of faith in Kingwa, and am happy to buy this "blind" without the opinions of others. I look forward to hooking it up to my Stax stuff, which has been running from my AV710 since my modded Zero(HDAM and decent caps fitted) died... I thought the AV710 was very good when I bought it, but after using the Zero, it's difficult to enjoy.

 I really hate decent audio. You get something good, and just can't take a backwards step. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I should be more active on here again once I can use my gear more often. And I can honestly say I have no intention of looking for ways to upgrade the Compass whatsoever... Kingwa knows more than I do, and I'm sure the components will compliment each other very nicely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I'll - obviously - give a detailed account of my thoughts of the unit after it's had a decent chance to settle in. I dare say it'll sound brilliant from new, as they're seeing 100 hours of use before shipment. The only time I noticed any difference in sound characteristics with the Zero was during the first few hours - literally half a dozen or less.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## mbd2884

Well Tyson's confidence and loving his Audio-dg units and giving great reviews of Kingwa, makes me feel I made a good purchase.


----------



## dBs

Got my money today. Now its all about the reviews =D

 If you lucky fellows wouldnt mind a request or two? =D

 DT770 (or something of relatively similar style), trance, metal. Im sure rock and classical are normal fare as are HD650s.

 What Im really curious about are the plethora of permutations between jumper...jumping, and the varied OPAs. At this point Im planning to get an additional Earth OPA to compliment the Moon that it comes with. I suspect with my apparent bass fetish, the Moon+DT770 may be a biiiit too much even for me but the Earth+DT770 would fare better. But down the road when I get more balanced cans, such as the K701s, the Moon will do well for my fetish =D


----------



## thelsuman

For the benefit of noobs like myself...what exactly is required to switch out the opa's (say change from moon to sun)? From Kingwa's photos, it looks like you'd only need a phillips screwdriver- is that right? Just wondering whether the purchasing the alternate opa's would be a good idea for someone like myself...that is...someone with zero experience modding gear.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the benefit of noobs like myself...what exactly is required to switch out the opa's (say change from moon to sun)? From Kingwa's photos, it looks like you'd only need a phillips screwdriver- is that right? Just wondering whether the purchasing the alternate opa's would be a good idea for someone like myself...that is...someone with zero experience modding gear._

 

Yea, the screw driver would be for the ground line, otherwise its just pulling the OPA out and slipping the new one in (making sure to match the proper pins (ie not put it in turned around). Thats it. Hardest part is probably opening the case.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

*thelsuman* It's a good idea getting a second flavor OPA IMO...I often find I prefer the Earth module in the DAC section and the Moon (unit...snort) in the analog section of my headphone amp (KHA II REVD right now). That's just my preference though. Additional tuning with SUN V2/V1/Earth modules now possible with the softness settings.... I'm not quite sure what Kingwa means by those different settings but we'll soon find out...

*dBs* I listen to metal/prog rock/classical all that stuff on my 650's they are terrific at it IMO. I only have AKG K240M's and some IEM's to choose from (for now, looking at Markl D5000's down the road and the HD800 of course).

 I'm sure Curra will have other popular types of cans and musical genres to wax philosophical on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*AP* I couldn't agree with you more...once you upgrade you can never take a step backwards...it just isn't the same experience. Fortunately for us the gear needed for a great experience doesn't have to cost an arm and leg like the old days...Welcome back and nice to hear from you BTW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kingwa also informed me that my C is shipping on the 19th....seems we should set up a pool and bet on arrival dates and times...the winner gets a dead Zero (insert prize of choice).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## dBs

It just occured to me that this unit might take longer to burn in than people think. Think of it this way: youve burned it in, everythings right with the world. Then you change the jumper or the OPA, or both...and your back to needing to burn in again. There are 4 jumper settings that change the sound. The gain jumper would only need burn in if you wanted to change that for different phones (though that may need its own burn in as well if you want such ability). Then theres the 2-3 OPA. So thats 4 burn ins for the jumpers and 2-3 for the OPAs so 4-7 configurations need burn in.

 ...sounds like fun! =D


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I not to sure changing the jumper will require further burn in dBs but changing to a fresh OPA module is another story as you have rightly surmised. 

 I'm a little ahead of the game since I already have all 3 types of audio-gd OPA's fully burned in and ready to go for the review which should save me a ton of time.

 Peete.

 PS I guess no one is interested in the Vinyl rig as a source for the review....I'll just add a small section on it for the final copy.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I not to sure changing the jumper will require further burn in dBs but changing to a fresh OPA module is another story as you have rightly surmised. 

 I'm a little ahead of the game since I already have all 3 types of audio-gd OPA's fully burned in and ready to go for the review which should save me a ton of time.

 Peete.

 PS I guess no one is interested in the Vinyl rig as a source for the review....I'll just add a small section on it for the final copy._

 

Hey,
 Hold on there Bob-a-lou!! What type of cartridge, MM or MC. Are you going to use a Phono stage?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll have my hands full with the review(s) and other planned mods on unrelated gear. The Vanguard CDM12 Pro transport review is also on the to do list for the next 2 weeks (followed by a radical mod, if I can fit it in the narrow chassis)._

 

Oooh, this sounds really interesting! I've been looking for a decent cd-transport. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. It looks far more interesting than the upcoming Little Dot transport, that I was also entertaining as a possibility.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I not to sure changing the jumper will require further burn in dBs but changing to a fresh OPA module is another story as you have rightly surmised._

 

Unless the jumper is simply jumping to ground, its leading to some other (normally non incorporated) circuit elements. These elements should need to be burned in like anything else (less so if its an inductor and resistors). This will be especially true if there are any transistors or capacitors involved with the addition. I could be wrong but I have a suspicion.


----------



## tea-head

KingWa has posted on the Compass page about the burn-in process with the jumpers...use all jumpers during burn-in and then adjust to taste...

 t


----------



## mbd2884

I think this will be the best competitor for the KECES 152 which sells at 475. Kingwa should price it competitively, around 425 if its just as good as the KECES. Get the money he deserves for the sound, but just right to persuade others to buy the Compass over the 152.

 But since the promotional price will last for a few months, I'm sure he will gain the attention and new customers he desires, and just go for the really HIFI products he has.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I would imagine the price will settle in between 358 and 399US before shipping after the promo offer is over with ....it's just a guess on my part Les. Even at 358 + it's quite a lot of unit for not a lot of money.

 This is just a guess folks.....I have not been told anything WRT to after promo pricing nor have I asked.

 Peete._


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep they get the upgraded pricing....258US rather than 399.99 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





....in other words who is going to pay the return shipping cost to HK for a pair of jacks, some silver wiring and a toggle switch ? 15 dollars worth of parts....(if that) ? I'm not trying to be smart DC, just practical so please do not take offense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The mod is simple and straight forward, so of the first 18 lucky recipients if any need this functionality, can DIY Mod their own units....IMO at least.

 Someone who needs this functionality...please document it and take pics so it can posted for those that need the extra direction/help to duplicate the ECO (engineering change order....LOL). 

 Peete._

 

heh... yeah I get what you mean, and modding is definitely half the fun sometimes... I guess I'm just worried, cos it seems that this is a test batch of sorts, and more refinements are on the way... same way the HDAMs got improved as feedback came in, and kingwa is very responsive about feedback.

 Bottom line is... I don't want to be jealous! haha... waiting to sell off my zero to make sure I can fund this tho...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think this will be the best competitor for the KECES 152 which sells at 475. Kingwa should price it competitively, around 425 if its just as good as the KECES. Get the money he deserves for the sound, but just right to persuade others to buy the Compass over the 152.

 But since the promotional price will last for a few months, I'm sure he will gain the attention and new customers he desires, and just go for the really HIFI products he has._

 

The Keces has a few issues that makes it not the box that the Compass is. The Keces has No SPDIF in!! I'm not sure why they did that. But that would be a deal breaker for me.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey,
 Hold on there Bob-a-lou!! What type of cartridge, MM or MC. Are you going to use a Phono stage?_

 

Ortophon OM20 MM, See Corp Revolver TT and an all tube phono stage stuffed with Amperex 12AX7 and RCA 12AU7 Clear Tops 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The stage is cheap but good...certainly good enough for the review. I do need to get a better cartridge at some point although the OM20 isn't anything to sneeze at.

*Drosera* The base unit transport is the Vanguard CDM12 Pro from Pacific Valve....the clock and the cd puck are updated (clock is 1ppm vs old 3 ppm TXCO type, while the new redesigned puck is said to have better damping properties). The addition I'm talking about uses audio-gd CD/DVD Coax mod board + Reg board PSU and it's own transformer. Basically it gives you 3 types of COAX out flavors (including the stock CDM12 output)...one is all discrete stage, transformer coupled allowing both types of connector out (BNC and COAX) with the other an IC based transformer coupled COAX and BNC out........the main issue for me is finding the room in the chassis for these 3 additional items....I may have to add it on to an outboard chassis.....I should have the CDM12 by Wed of next week....I'll know better then when I take the inside shots for the preliminary review which I will post in the dedicated source forum. Drop me a PM sometime in Feb for updates on how that works out if I haven't posted anything beyond the initial review (WRT to the mod that is).

 It should be a perfect spinner for the Ref 1 DAC (at least that's the plan) which has BNC and coax inputs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## mattcalf

Been following this for a while.
 My plan is to see how it compares to various other AMP/DAC combinations (not exclusive) and if it is better then get it before the promo period ends.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mattcalf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been following this for a while.
 My plan is to see how it compares to various other AMP/DAC combinations (not exclusive) and if it is better then get it before the promo period ends. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I will be comparing it with my Meier Audio Opera (with DAC). So if that works positively for the Compass, that would be interesting. I am expecting a different sound signature from the Compass though.


----------



## mattcalf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be comparing it with my Meier Audio Opera (with DAC). So if that works positively for the Compass, that would be interesting. I am expecting a different sound signature from the Compass though._

 

Awesome, can't wait to hear the results.
 And maybe even hear the compass eventually.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The base unit transport is the Vanguard CDM12 Pro from Pacific Valve....the clock and the cd puck are updated (clock is 1ppm vs old 3 ppm TXCO type, while the new redesigned puck is said to have better damping properties). The addition I'm talking about uses audio-gd CD/DVD Coax mod board + Reg board PSU and it's own transformer. Basically it gives you 3 types of COAX out flavors (including the stock CDM12 output)...one is all discrete stage, transformer coupled allowing both types of connector out (BNC and COAX) with the other an IC based transformer coupled COAX and BNC out........the main issue for me is finding the room in the chassis for these 3 additional items....I may have to add it on to an outboard chassis.....I should have the CDM12 by Wed of next week....I'll know better then when I take the inside shots for the preliminary review which I will post in the dedicated source forum. Drop me a PM sometime in Feb for updates on how that works out if I haven't posted anything beyond the initial review (WRT to the mod that is)._

 

Thanks for the detailed info! 
 That sounds like quite a scary DIY project to undertake, at least for an inexperienced DIY'er like me. Do you already have an idea what the board-layout is for the Vanguard machine and if it's relatively to reach all the connections and do the rewiring?
 I'm certainly looking forward to your report on both the original transport and the subsequent embellishments. But as far as I'm concerned you can take your time cause I'll have to save up for this one anyways.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should be a perfect spinner for the Ref 1 DAC (at least that's the plan) which has BNC and coax inputs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Indeed, but did you notice that the Chinese version of the Audio-Gd website already seems to have a Reference One and Reference Two DAC available? I wonder why that is, when the English version has it projected for March 9.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed, but did you notice that the Chinese version of the Audio-Gd website already seems to have a Reference One and Reference Two DAC available? I wonder why that is, when the English version has it projected for March 9._

 

This is just to make sure that the products are fully tested and reviewed before selling overseas. I find that a responsible and makes business sense. That DSP is actually programmed and coded by someone from Overseas, and the costs of that software development plus future upgrade is one of the costs item.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is just to make sure that the products are fully tested and reviewed before selling overseas. I find that a responsible and makes business sense. That DSP is actually programmed and coded by someone from Overseas, and the costs of that software development plus future upgrade is one of the costs item._

 

Hm, that makes sense. Wise policy. That also goes some way to explain why Kingwa seem genuinely worried about how his Compass will be received. At least, that's the impression I get from my email communication with him.
 Well, certainly the 100-hour burn-in period at Audio-Gd would probably bring to light most of the teething problems that could occur in a new product. It's nice to buy something that has already been so thoroughly tested.


----------



## zac_peter

Hello Gang!

 I've been keenly reading this thread for a while, with all the yes and no, I ultimately decided to order the Compass yesterday and join the gang today.

 I wanted to thank all, who started and contributed to the making of Compass - Let's hope for the best !
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Best wishes,
 Zac


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zac_peter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Gang!

 I've been keenly reading this thread for a while, with all the yes and no, I ultimately decided to order the Compass yesterday and join the gang today.

 I wanted to thank all, who started and contributed to the making of Compass - Let's hope for the best !
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Best wishes,
 Zac_

 

Hello, welcome, and, of course: Sorry for your wallet! (Head-fi's unofficial slogan and welcome greeting.)

 Hopefully you will have made an excellent choice with the Compass. Will yours still ship on the 19th? Or are you in for a later batch?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed, but did you notice that the Chinese version of the Audio-Gd website already seems to have a Reference One and Reference Two DAC available? I wonder why that is, when the English version has it projected for March 9._

 


 Kingwa said the Ref 1 was released to the Chinese market, and he had about 12 that have sold and are in use. After reading Tyson's review, getting equipment setup for a Voltage difference is not as easy as I thought it was. It makes sense that Audio-gd could make products for their electrical system easier because they have it available without using a transformer I'm guessing here. If anyone else is interested in the Ref 1, please PM me, it would be nice to have some volume for an order. Maybe get a group discount.


----------



## zac_peter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, welcome, and, of course: Sorry for your wallet! (Head-fi's unofficial slogan and welcome greeting.)

 Hopefully you will have made an excellent choice with the Compass. Will yours still ship on the 19th? Or are you in for a later batch?_

 

Hello Drosera,

 Thank you for sharing the scarry slogan!

 As far as I remember the person said my package will be shipped on the 19th itself, I was on the email with him for for some time before I placed my order.

 I hope I have made the right decision, although this is the first time I am buying anything without auditioning.

 Time will only tell.

 Best wishes,
 Zac


----------



## AlexinExile

I cannot wait for this to come...


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zac_peter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Drosera,

 Thank you for sharing the scarry slogan!

 As far as I remember the person said my package will be shipped on the 19th itself, I was on the email with him for for some time before I placed my order.

 I hope I have made the right decision, although this is the first time I am buying anything without auditioning.

 Time will only tell.

 Best wishes,
 Zac_

 

Yeah, it is scary, isn't it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Head-fi will usually cost you quite a bit of money, but it will usually make you happier too, so it's all good.

 I think you bought the last one of the first 18 Compass's. The webpage for the Compass now says all 18 have sold out. Welcome to the early adopters. Yes, buying an unknown quantity is somewhat frightening, but quite exciting too. It's fun to know you will be one of the first to hear this particular device.

 What headphones will you be using them with?


----------



## csroc

zzz


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zac_peter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Drosera,

 Thank you for sharing the scarry slogan!

 As far as I remember the person said my package will be shipped on the 19th itself, I was on the email with him for for some time before I placed my order.

 I hope I have made the right decision, although this is the first time I am buying anything without auditioning.

 Time will only tell.

 Best wishes,
 Zac_

 

At $258 this is a no brainer. Looks to be a DAC-100 with a nice Headamp and all the Bells and whistles we've always wanted. That's what was nice about being able to participate in development. It may be Really good! Then think how happy you'll be. I don't see any other product out there that does what this one does NEAR the promo price.

 The reviews will help determine is this product is a Good one or a great one. Looking at Audio-gd's track record, these seem to be the options. When there WERE technical issues, they were resolved quickly.

 Life is not without snags though. It would behoove everyone to read Tyson's Review in it's entirety on Head-Fi. He did have major issues with his Audio-gd conversion. I don't know how relevant that is here other than Full disclosure.


----------



## zac_peter

Quote:


 Yeah, it is scary, isn't it? Head-fi will usually cost you quite a bit of money, but it will usually make you happier too, so it's all good.

 I think you bought the last one of the first 18 Compass's. The webpage for the Compass now says all 18 have sold out. Welcome to the early adopters. Yes, buying an unknown quantity is somewhat frightening, but quite exciting too. It's fun to know you will be one of the first to hear this particular device.

 What headphones will you be using them with? 
 

Indeed, I looked at the website, and I am lucky!

 I am very new to what you call head-fi, for the past 10 years I have steadily building my Hifi audio setup, and hopefuly I can say I have managed to build quite a decent setup.

 Recently, due to time constraints I realized, I was not able to spend time on my hifi, so now I am trying to set up something decent in my office attached to my PC.

 Only yesterday, I went out and bought my first headphone, which happens to be Denon D5000, without auditioning again, I have not unpacked it as yet, hopefuly it will match well with Compass.





  Quote:


 At $258 this is a no brainer. Looks to be a DAC-100 with a nice Headamp and all the Bells and whistles we've always wanted. That's what was nice about being able to participate in development. It may be Really good! Then think how happy you'll be. I don't see any other product out there that does what this one does NEAR the promo price.

 The reviews will help determine is this product is a Good one or a great one. Looking at Audio-gd's track record, these seem to be the options. When there WERE technical issues, they were resolved quickly.

 Life is not without snags though. It would behoove everyone to read Tyson's Review in it's entirety on Head-Fi. He did have major issues with his Audio-gd conversion. I don't know how relevant that is here other than Full disclosure. 
 Today 03:49 PM 
 

Hello Les_garten,

 I think you are correct when you say Compass is a no brainer for the price it is being offered, I have gone about seeing many such similar gears and they all were either costlier, or did not have the quality packed inside like the Compass.

 Would you be kind enough to share with me the link to Tyson's review?

 Best wishes
 Zac


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zac_peter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed, I looked at the website, and I am lucky!

 I am very new to what you call head-fi, for the past 10 years I have steadily building my Hifi audio setup, and hopefuly I can say I have managed to build quite a decent setup.

 Recently, due to time constraints I realized, I was not able to spend time on my hifi, so now I am trying to set up something decent in my office attached to my PC.

 Only yesterday, I went out and bought my first headphone, which happens to be Denon D5000, without auditioning again, I have not unpacked it as yet, hopefuly it will match well with Compass._

 

Well, head-fi is not exactly my term, it's the name of this forum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Familiar problem, not enough time to spend in the living room with the best Hifi-setup. I'm buying the Compass for my 'home-office' as well, that's where I end up doing most of my listening anyways. And it's nice to be able to hook it up to the computer and hopefully get some decent sound from there as well.

 The D5000's. That's quite an investment. It should work fine, I think, considering Kingwa used the D2000 (amongst others) when designing the Compass.

 If I can answer for Les, you can find Tyson's review here. It's not on head-fi.org, as far as I know.


----------



## les_garten

Server busy caused Double..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zac_peter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed, I looked at the website, and I am lucky!

 I am very new to what you call head-fi, for the past 10 years I have steadily building my Hifi audio setup, and hopefuly I can say I have managed to build quite a decent setup.

 Recently, due to time constraints I realized, I was not able to spend time on my hifi, so now I am trying to set up something decent in my office attached to my PC.

 Only yesterday, I went out and bought my first headphone, which happens to be Denon D5000, without auditioning again, I have not unpacked it as yet, hopefuly it will match well with Compass.







 Hello Les_garten,

 I think you are correct when you say Compass is a no brainer for the price it is being offered, I have gone about seeing many such similar gears and they all were either costlier, or did not have the quality packed inside like the Compass.

 Would you be kind enough to share with me the link to Tyson's review?

 Best wishes
 Zac_

 

I have the Denon D5000, very Nice Phones. They do nothing particularly wrong, and a lot of things really right IMHO.

 Here is the Link to the Tyson Review. I had to find it the other day because I am interested in Audio-Gd DAC's. Enjoy.

Review: Audio-GD C1 Amp, C3 Preamp, and DAC8 D/A Converter

 Here is Curra's Review of the C2C HA. It has lineage with the Compass as evidenced by the Dual Mono type design.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ot-mkv-383033/


----------



## AmanGeorge

It might be worthwhile to have a Head-Fier go through the Compass page and fix all the Chinglish that tends to plague many Chinese websites


----------



## dwong

Anybody know what is included in the pre-amp version that is different then the default?


----------



## mbd2884

The Pre-Amp and the default are the exact same. Its just you need to ask to have the pre-amp done, custom job. He has to drill a new hole for the switch to make it a pre-amp and 2 new holes for the new RCA outputs. That's the only difference.

 Thanks Les-Garten for the link to Tyson's review.

 It seems his fully balanced is without any exceptions, incredible work. Fully balanced from start to balance, with no corners cut, really really good engineering. The customer service was top notch.

 As opposed to his problem for Tyson, for those who didn't read it, seems good explanation. Kingwa may not have the proper equipment to convert form his 220 to 120V system used here, so some of the settings were off. 

 And the other problem was actually on Tyson's and Kingwa's part, because the system is so detailed, and so transparent, that Tyson had to replace a lot of cable and ensure only the best signal through properly shielded cables were sent from his source to the Audio-dg equipment. Tyson said some of the cables Kingwa provided were not adaquate, so they had to be replaced. 

 Really make it short, for Audio-dgs most expensive fully balanced speaker system, you have to have a source to match the incredible detail Audio-dg DAC and Amps, and ensure the signal among all of them are as good as they can be.

 As for compass, sounds like it might be a good idea for us to use a proper power strip and good power cable for the Compass. Hopefully the USB cable will be fine though, and best to use the coaxial or optical though. Personally I may have to get a USB-Spdif converter in the future.


----------



## AlexinExile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dwong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody know what is included in the pre-amp version that is different then the default?_

 

Nobody knows yet. The newer version will have a preamp function and Kingwa might incorporate some of the suggestions made by the original 18 owners.


----------



## zac_peter

Hello Les_garten and Drosera,

 Thank you for the links, it is going to be interesting reading them.


 Hello AmanGeorge,

 I do not think, his english is so bad, I can clearly understand what he is saying about Compass, although I must agree that it cannot be said about his other gears, I found hard to understand the english.

 Best wishes,
 Zac


----------



## csroc

I have trouble believing there will be any major changes to the Compass from the first 18 (aside from preamp inclusion which sounds like something most people could do on their own quite easily).


----------



## mbd2884

Well if you noticed, this looks to be Audio_dg's first dedicated Headphone DAC/AMP. His other units are made for Audiophile speaker setups, I mean 500 Watts per channel on your headphone, lol.

 So I think with the feedback he gets from the Compass, he might use that feedback to build a second. So he will offer two headphone solid state offerings, one for HIFI/Mid-FI (Compass) and other audiophile to compete with the best of em like Ray Samuel.

 So I agree, I doubt he will make changes to the Compass, but rather use the feedback to create an even better unit targeted at those willing to spend the 1,000+ for headphone AMP or DAC.


----------



## csroc

That may be, but that would be a separate product entirely I imagine. I would doubt very much that the Compass will change particularly much from the first 18... unless something drastically wrong with it is discovered (seems doubtful considering how much testing audio-gd does).


----------



## AmanGeorge

Sure I can understand the website, but it can be difficult in parts. A few friends of mine and I have studied Chinese and been to China a few times, and we always thought someone should start a business that would consult Chinese companies on fixing the English translations on their websites, menus, signboards, pamphlets, etc. It helps make the materials look more "professional," especially to the many consumers who you will find on Head-Fi who are hesitant to buy Chinese-made high-end audio equipment.


----------



## mbd2884

Audio-dg's marketing on their frontpage asks their customers to compare their products to other 5 times the price. That's very impressive, and from Tyson's review, seems Audio-dg's products can pass the test.

 Anyways, just wanted to look at their slogan, "Wisdom in Head, Ambition in Heart"

 I thinks maybe: "Intelligent design, Enrapturing Sound," 

 Or whatever else would be better.


----------



## Tyson

Hi all,
 Since my name came up here, I wanted to update everyone on recent changes to my system. I made 2 discoveries about my speakers (VMPS RM40's) that made me realize that a change was necessary - 1st, the mid-panels have a small peak in the 2khz range that makes them slightly bright sounding with any amp that does not have a slightly "warm" sound. 2nd, I found that they sound MUCH better when actively biamped.

 I got a DCX2496 to handle the active crossover duties, and a friend (mgalusha mentioned in the review) was interested in doing all the necessary mods on it (to bring it to the same quality level as the rest of my gear), in exchange for one of the 0db modules, which we had demo'd in his system when he was biasing them for me. So, I made that trade, and bought a VTL ST-85 to power the mids/highs. 

 So, now I've got the Bolder modded Duet feeding the DAC8, which feeds the C3 SE (turns out I do actually have the SE version), feeding the modded DCX, which splits the signal, sending bass to the C1 and sending mids/highs to the VTL. 

 The sound quality is amazing. 

 The DAC8 in particular has really only broken in during the last month or so. This equipment all takes a very long time to fully break in, and will not be as sweet or clear during the first couple of months of use. It will still sound good after a couple weeks burn in, but it will be a more "mid-fi" kind of good, the kind of good that makes you happy, but does not make you forget about other amps/dac's. After a few months, that changes (at least in my system w/the fully balanced stuff), I no longer think about other amps, preamps, or DAC's.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AmanGeorge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure I can understand the website, but it can be difficult in parts. A few friends of mine and I have studied Chinese and been to China a few times, and we always thought someone should start a business that would consult Chinese companies on fixing the English translations on their websites, menus, signboards, pamphlets, etc. It helps make the materials look more "professional," especially to the many consumers who you will find on Head-Fi who are hesitant to buy Chinese-made high-end audio equipment._

 

LOL, Chinglish, I like that. Fixing their site would help them a lot more than in just North America, England, Australia, etc. 

 If German or French, or Dutch is your Native Language, kids in those Countries are Required to take many years of English. When I lived in Germany, every child was Required to be Tri lingual. They had to take German, English, and an Elective Language.

 So if you are a Native German, Reading a site poorly translated to English and trying to figure it out, think how many Language translations there are?

 I think that "Direct" Capitalism is very new in China and they are having Growing pains, and that details escape them at present. I also think that if you are on the "On-Ramp" as they are, they are just proud to be where they have arrived to at present.

 As an Example, I'll use this link:

Darkvoice earphone amplifier THA 336 332 337 FIGARO Liangyinfang Workroom

 I just bought the DV 337SE at this link.

Darkvoice earphone amplifier THA 336 332 337 FIGARO Liangyinfang Workroom

 Notice that the Tube cage is "crooked" in the top pic. I sent them an email about this and they seemed to not be concerned in the least.

 What Western Company would have allowed that PIC to stand 5 minutes after this being pointed out to them? That's why I say that detail and Subtlety, they do not appreciate at present.

 There are folks that would see that and think if they can't get that right, their product may be "sloppy" as well. When I post my thoughts on that amp, the other slop I noted will also be documented. The quality of the design and sound is awesome, detail of execution was somewhat lacking though.

 This Direct sales market from Japan is really just starting to Blossom. I'm sure they will pick up on all this in the next few years, and there would seem to be a market for the service you suggested, I agree with that.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tyson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,
 Since my name came up here, I wanted to update everyone on recent changes to my system. I made 2 discoveries about my speakers (VMPS RM40's) that made me realize that a change was necessary - 1st, the mid-panels have a small peak in the 2khz range that makes them slightly bright sounding with any amp that does not have a slightly "warm" sound. 2nd, I found that they sound MUCH better when actively biamped.

 I got a DCX2496 to handle the active crossover duties, and a friend (mgalusha mentioned in the review) was interested in doing all the necessary mods on it (to bring it to the same quality level as the rest of my gear), in exchange for one of the 0db modules, which we had demo'd in his system when he was biasing them for me. So, I made that trade, and bought a VTL ST-85 to power the mids/highs. 

 So, now I've got the Bolder modded Duet feeding the DAC8, which feeds the C3 SE (turns out I do actually have the SE version), feeding the modded DCX, which splits the signal, sending bass to the C1 and sending mids/highs to the VTL. 

 The sound quality is amazing. 

 The DAC8 in particular has really only broken in during the last month or so. This equipment all takes a very long time to fully break in, and will not be as sweet or clear during the first couple of months of use. It will still sound good after a couple weeks burn in, but it will be a more "mid-fi" kind of good, the kind of good that makes you happy, but does not make you forget about other amps/dac's. After a few months, that changes (at least in my system w/the fully balanced stuff), I no longer think about other amps, preamps, or DAC's._

 


 Hi,
 Thanx for the input, what mods, in General terms, were made to the DCX2496? I need a crossover (M-L Monoliths) and am interested in this.


----------



## Tyson

The modded DCX has it's analog board replaced with a high end Jan Didden/Linear Audio analog board.

 New input receiver/sample rate converter/clock designed by Frank Oettle in Germany. This has a 2.6ps jitter master clock that allows synchronous operation of all parts of the DCX. It also contains two on board low noise regulators.

 Two low noise regulators also designed by Frank Oettle, one feeds the analog section of the DAC chips and the other the digital section of the A/D converter.

 AKM AK4395 DAC chips with the digital section fed by a dedicated 5v low noise regulator.

 Felix style power input filter and additional LC filtering between the power supply and the digital board.

 AES/EBU digital input path (XLR/relay/ribbon cables) replaced with 75 ohm coax and 75ohm precision resistor replaces 110ohm at input transformer.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I think with the feedback he gets from the Compass, he might use that feedback to build a second. So he will offer two headphone solid state offerings, one for HIFI/Mid-FI (Compass) and other audiophile to compete with the best of em like Ray Samuel._

 

Indeed, this could be the start of something excellent. Who knows, maybe in a years time we'll have something from Audio-Gd on the level of a Corda Symphony or a β22.

 But first, the Compass. Focus, focus. One thing at the time.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice looking piece of kit - certainly nicer than the Zero... especially with the ghastly stock blue LEDs. Spoke to Kingwa earlier in the week(what a friendly guy! It's always nice talking to him), and I should be one of the first lot, being shipped on the 19th January. Would be nice if it arrived one day next week, but I'm in no real rush.

 I have a lot of faith in Kingwa, and am happy to buy this "blind" without the opinions of others. I look forward to hooking it up to my Stax stuff, which has been running from my AV710 since my modded Zero(HDAM and decent caps fitted) died... I thought the AV710 was very good when I bought it, but after using the Zero, it's difficult to enjoy.

 I really hate decent audio. You get something good, and just can't take a backwards step. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I should be more active on here again once I can use my gear more often. And I can honestly say I have no intention of looking for ways to upgrade the Compass whatsoever... Kingwa knows more than I do, and I'm sure the components will compliment each other very nicely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I'll - obviously - give a detailed account of my thoughts of the unit after it's had a decent chance to settle in. I dare say it'll sound brilliant from new, as they're seeing 100 hours of use before shipment. The only time I noticed any difference in sound characteristics with the Zero was during the first few hours - literally half a dozen or less.

 ~Phewl._

 

Just to add, I've decided to try out his bespoke power cable as well. I've never understood why power cables will make a difference(any cable carrying an audio signal is a different matter), and have been quite sceptical, but I figured I'd give it a whirl. I know there are plenty of folk out there who swear that it does make a difference, but it's just never made any sense to me.

 Hope they ship on the 19th! I'm getting quite eager now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Tyson do you have a link for the DCX mods that were done...I'd like to have a closer look. 

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tyson do you have a link for the DCX mods that were done...I'd like to have a closer look. 

 Peete._

 


 Ditto, What he said, ^^^^^^^^^


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the detailed info! 
 That sounds like quite a scary DIY project to undertake, at least for an inexperienced DIY'er like me. Do you already have an idea what the board-layout is for the Vanguard machine and if it's relatively to reach all the connections and do the rewiring?
 I'm certainly looking forward to your report on both the original transport and the subsequent embellishments. But as far as I'm concerned you can take your time cause I'll have to save up for this one anyways.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It sounds way more complicated than it is......the real issue is size of the 2 boards plus toroidal transformer (15-30VA depends on what I can get off the shelf) and room for all that in the CDM12 chassis. 

 Here is a link to the Pac Valve page with pics of the transport...Pacific Valve & Electric Company Vanguard CDM 12

 The CD/DVD mod board (description and pics) is under the DIY section of audio-gd web page...I have the standard config board with the better power supply arrangement.

 This spinner will be part of the Compass review process so that is the relevance WRT to this thread.

 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

Kingwa must be pleased that all 18 of his Compass have already sold without any reviews to boot. 

 Maybe Mikhail should take notice that even if your business is small, there are no excuses for bad customer service, and actually recognizing your customers exist goes a long way.


----------



## peanuthead

Really looking forward to reviews of this unit.

 Does anyone know if the amp unit of Compass is supposed to be comparable to their C-2C amp?

 Also, for the lucky reviewers, I'd love to see direct comparisons of the DAC and amp portions of compass with your other DACs and amps using the "Super" mode. Thanks.


----------



## csroc

Just got a very interesting email from Kingwa, this really proves his dedication to us, the customers. I really am amazed by what he is doing. I am more excited than ever to be receiving one of the first 18 units now!


----------



## zac_peter

I received that email from Audio GD too, absolutely incredible, goes a long way to show his dedication to customers, something very unheard of in the West, let alone the East. 

 Bravo Kingwa, you have won my highest appreciation with the gesture. 

 Best wishes 
 Zac


----------



## dBs

Careful, if its something you cant disclose. I can pretty much determine what the email was already based upon what was stated so far. I wont say it here though so as to keep hush hush.


----------



## zac_peter

removed, maybe I should not disclose also.


----------



## haloxt

Yes, it's true. All compasses ship with free moon cakes to celebrate the coming Chinese New Year!


----------



## csroc

I don't know if it's something he doesn't want us sharing, I don't think it would have any negative affect on him or his business, but I'm not going to share it regardless. haloxt is close though, there's a Chinese New Years goodies grab bag!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, it's true. All compasses ship with free moon cakes to celebrate the coming Chinese New Year!_

 

Yup, and firecrackers!

 Seriously though, what an enormous commitment by Kingwa! I'm really curious how the whole review-process is going to work out and what the different impressions will be.

*Audiophewl:* Great to hear you are going to try out the powerchord. Both Tyson and Kingwa suggest that good cables are essential for Audio-Gd equipment. So if it works for you, that might make me less sceptical of powerchord upgrades.


----------



## zac_peter

I believe power cords do make a difference, but to hear that, you must have a good enough components and more than anything pure and clean power supply, I am also getting the power cord from Audio GD.


----------



## mbd2884

Yes, I also received email. Absolutely unbelievable, just amazing. His commitment to his customers blows me away constantly.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got a very interesting email from Kingwa, this really proves his dedication to us, the customers. I really am amazed by what he is doing. I am more excited than ever to be receiving one of the first 18 units now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## 8140david

Any idea how the Dac of the Compass should compare to the Musical Fidelity V-Dac?
 And its Amp to the Meier Corda Arietta?
 (That's my current Dac - Amp combo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any idea how the Dac of the Compass should compare to the Musical Fidelity V-Dac?
 And its Amp to the Meier Corda Arietta?
 (That's my current Dac - Amp combo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

Honest answer: *No*.

 Dishonest and based-on-hardly-any-facts-at-all-answer: I expect the amp section on Audio-Gd's reputation to be better than the Arietta. And perhaps the DAC to be on about the same level as the Musical Fidelity V-Dac (since a lot of the price of that DAC is probably paying for brand name). But since I've heard neither this amp nor this DAC and none of us here has heard the Compass, I would advise you to be patient.


----------



## mbd2884

The only thing we know for sure is that Kingwa wanted to design a headphone AMP/DAC with high quality parts that could be sold for far more than he is asking for. We know he wanted to design something that is as neutral as possible, from his other designs, shows he loves neutral transparent sound. Or as he asks, compare his products to others 5 times its price.

 We know that he uses modular design so even though its a DAC/AMP comob, the DAC is on a completely different module, the AMP is on a completely separate module, even the power source is on a separate module. 

 Like previous post, cannot make a difinitive statement, only based on what we know. The DAC will be great, solid. Its the same design as the DAC-100 which sells for 249$ currently alone. Its a competitor to the KECES 151, and is considered excellent. So yes, I believe the DAC part will be better than the V-DAC easily. The AMP, is a custom design, and we really don't know. But from reviews we have seen that the Arieta is a great amp for the money, in fact Skylab said he would recommend the Arieta over the Cantate, the difference in price wasn't worth he said. So I hope the Compass AMP will surpass Arieta for detail, neutrality and transparency, soundstage. But that is just my hope. 

 For the AMP section, we know it surpassed Kingwa's expectations. That's all we know for sure. And I believe he wanted to ensure the AMP would be of the same calibre as the DAC-100 AMP, meaning the AMP could sell for 249$ alone, but be worth more, and yet it exceeded his own expectation. That's great news for us. But cannot compare to Arieta, but just know it should be good enough for me, and probably will be beyond what I'm expecting.

 Oh also, Kingwa wants to make the best dedicated headphone DAC/AMP combo unit of 2009. That's very ambitious.

 I hope that helps until the reviews come out.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh also, Kingwa wants to make the best dedicated headphone DAC/AMP combo unit of 2009. That's very ambitious._

 

I thought he meant Audio-Gd's best DAC/Amp, not 'the best' in general. If I misunderstood, then yes, that would be ambitious. But if there's a company that might be able to pull it off, it's Audio-Gd. They certainly don't seem to be into making compromises on quality.


----------



## zac_peter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought he meant Audio-Gd's best DAC/Amp, not 'the best' in general. If I misunderstood, then yes, that would be ambitious. But if there's a company that might be able to pull it off, it's Audio-Gd. They certainly don't seem to be into making compromises on quality._

 

I do not think Audio GD has another DAC/AMP in their product line apart from Compass, so maybe he did mean in general and although it sounds very ambitious, I do not doubt their abilities to just pull this off.

 Bottom-line: If that happens; good for him and good for us!

 Finally, I think those words are more of a sign of his commitment to Compass and his customers and not something to be taken literally.

 I just saw his web site it also says "in near price", then it is very possible and less amitious.


----------



## ccschua

Since I am using the DAC 100 now, I was wondering why is that the sound of AD 1852 is so clean and natural and smooth. After much soul searching and thinking, I guess what additional stuff DAC 100 has is (so u will get it in Compass as well): -

 1 discrete power supply or the shunt regulator. In short, it is like swapping your OPAMP to OPA Sun or Earth in power supply. do some research and u will know what I mean.
 2. choice of components, prominent one is Dale Resistor, Nover caps, big fat diodes.
 3. Isolated power supply
 4. DIR 9001
 4. To search my memory box again

 Thumbs up to Kingwa
 rgds


----------



## haloxt

I'm just a little worried that he's making the offer to us just in case the compass isn't as polished as he believes it can be and feels obligated to give it to us right now. But if it's just to reassure the people who buy the first 18 units that evertyhing is okay then it's fine. The fees he's willing to absorb to do this just boggles my mind.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really looking forward to reviews of this unit.

 Does anyone know if the amp unit of Compass is supposed to be comparable to their C-2C amp?

 Also, for the lucky reviewers, I'd love to see direct comparisons of the DAC and amp portions of compass with your other DACs and amps using the "Super" mode. Thanks._

 

I'll let you know and I plan to review the DAC and amp portions both separately and together.

 Interestingly, since there was mention of the DAC 8 and 1, I had a chance to try a vintage Nakamichi Dragon DAC the other day, and it totally blew me away, making my Northstar sound muddy and digital in comparison! Now, what's interesting about this Nakamichi, is that it uses 4x the same DA's that Kingwa uses in his 3SE DAC (the DAC 7, 8 and 1 use 8x). Now, the Northstar is $2.5k new! 

 I was also just thinking how excited we're all getting over the compass, like other people were getting excited about the Sennheiser HD-800. Despite the rest of the gear I own, I'm still looking forward to receiving and reviewing mine.


----------



## shadowlord

i'm very interested in this dac.
 but do you need to flip the switch on the back everytime you need it as pre-amp ?
 i do switch often between hp and speakers with the dac as pre.

 right now i use a modded zero so i'm looking forward to the first comparisons between the two.


----------



## D.C.

Guys this is my first post. I am very happy to finally join the head-fi community. I started reading the head-fi forums since the zero was reviewed way back months ago. Now you guys put a new fire in my pants and its called the Compass lol….I am so getting one. A big thanks to all of you guys for making head-fi a special place and for Currawong for starting this wonderful thread.
 Oh and my first nuby question shall I get a sound card for my laptop or will a usb connection straight to the Compass do the trick. Thanks 

 All the best guys cant wait for the reviews


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys this is my first post. I am very happy to finally join the head-fi community. I started reading the head-fi forums since the zero was reviewed way back months ago. Now you guys put a new fire in my pants and its called the Compass lol….I am so getting one. A big thanks to all of you guys for making head-fi a special place and for Currawong for starting this wonderful thread.
 Oh and my first nuby question shall I get a sound card for my laptop or will a usb connection straight to the Compass do the trick. Thanks 

 All the best guys cant wait for the reviews_

 

There are so many variables in computers, I'm not sure anyone can answer this question for you. If your computer has "ZERO" performance issues with it, you may want to give a go at USB. Let us know what you think.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys this is my first post. I am very happy to finally join the head-fi community. I started reading the head-fi forums since the zero was reviewed way back months ago. Now you guys put a new fire in my pants and its called the Compass lol….I am so getting one. A big thanks to all of you guys for making head-fi a special place and for Currawong for starting this wonderful thread.
 Oh and my first nuby question shall I get a sound card for my laptop or will a usb connection straight to the Compass do the trick. Thanks 

 All the best guys cant wait for the reviews_

 

Welcome and (for the second time in this thread): Sorry for your wallet!

 I agree with Les, hard to answer. As a general rule a soundcard with SPDIF will always be better than USB. But much better? That depends on far too many variables. Although I would expect a laptop (due to 'compactness') to be an even noisier environment (in terms of interference) than a regular computer. Another factor in favour of a soundcard is that it will allow you to output higher resolution digital formats than just 16bit/44.1KHz.
 But to start out with, USB should probably function fine.


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome and (for the second time in this thread): Sorry for your wallet!

 I agree with Les, hard to answer. As a general rule a soundcard with SPDIF will always be better than USB. But much better? That depends on far too many variables. Although I would expect a laptop (due to 'compactness') to be an even noisier environment (in terms of interference) than a regular computer. Another factor in favour of a soundcard is that it will allow you to output higher resolution digital formats than just 16bit/44.1KHz.
 But to start out with, USB should probably function fine._

 

I respectfully disagree concerning SPDIF always being better than USB and not only because of what follows. For myself anything inside the computer is going to be worst unless you use a card like the Juli@ where you have a great digital signal out. I used this with my last desktop computer with great results. 

 I now use a M-Audio USB Audiophile device which allows for hi-rez SPDIF conversion via USB into my DAC. Most of the portable amp/dac devices around here do have this limitation of only handling 16bit/44.1khz but this does not mean that USB is the limitation. The limitation is in the drivers that are available in standard windows. My M-Audio device has it's own windows drivers for ASIO that do very well. It is my understanding that USB 2.0 can handle adequately up to 96kHz signal and my experience supports this. If your device uses a PCM2707 converter chip is does have this limitation since it is setup for the standard windows USB driver for plug and play.

 So here is my signal path at my desk setup at home...computer -->usb cable--> M-Audio USB Audiophile --> SPDIF digital cable ---> Lavry DA10 coaxial input ---> RCA output into my Yamamoto HA-02.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh and my first nuby question shall I get a sound card for my laptop or will a usb connection straight to the Compass do the trick. Thanks_

 

I've never owned a usb sound card but apparently no one is saying they are audibly worse than pci sound cards. Don't need to download drivers because windows has built-in drivers for pcm2707. ASIO4all will give you ASIO if you want to. If physical size and limited driver software isn't a problem then you should consider this. But the main reason I'm getting a compass is because I keep getting different results using different asio/ks/wasapi programs with my ht omega halo and I've given up trying to get bit-perfect output on the computer (sigh, it's 2009 and they still haven't ironed out the bit-perfect issue on any OS). But I'll let you know how the compass compares with the halo when both are Kmixer-impaired.


----------



## Taikero

For the record, there are plenty of USB DACs that handle up to and sometimes exceeding a 24 bit/192 KHz signal. It's only the really expensive ones that don't require custom drivers for the respectively supported OSes.

 Probably the most popular DACs that support this are the EMU 0404 USB (custom drivers, ~$170-$200) and the Benchmark DAC1 (no drivers needed, a fair shot over $1000).


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm just a little worried that he's making the offer to us just in case the compass isn't as polished as he believes it can be and feels obligated to give it to us right now. But if it's just to reassure the people who buy the first 18 units that evertyhing is okay then it's fine. The fees he's willing to absorb to do this just boggles my mind._

 

I've had the same email. I'm not in the slightest bit concerned that Kingwa has made that offer because he feels the Compass has been rushed, and won't live up to expectations. I feel he has made the offer because he strives to produce something marvellous for the money he charges. If the end product is not as considered as good by the buyers as he feels it is, then he wants the opportunity to resolve the situation to the satisfaction of everyone.

 It's a small company, with a reputation for very good gear, made by enthusiasts. Reputation, and word of mouth, are paramount to how the company performs. His offer is just one of superb customer service, in an attempt to ensure every customer is a happy one. 2 Disappointed customers on here can make a lot of noise, and dampen the "feel-good" factor of buying from a company. Look at the Zero - it was great, but poor workmanship and very lacking customer service has all but killed it off for new customers.

 He's not after the mass-markets, like the Zero. He's aiming for the small niche, which is people like you and I, who are wanting to buy small-run gear aimed solely at proper enthusiasts.

 Unhappy people on here can make a huge dent in the reputation and confidence in the company.

 From what I've heard of his products, and my - limited - experience with them, the products are damned good, and the customer service is even better.

 I genuinely tip my hat to him for his kind offer, and feel genuinely happy to be one of the "blind" buyers of his new offering. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl.


----------



## csroc

I also think it's sort of his way for thanking the "blind" buyers for giving him a chance and for hopefully giving him feedback that allows him to make various improvements. As I've said before I doubt there will be large changes, but he still obviously wants to let us benefit from the changes we are in part responsible for.

 I find it just astounding, I will certainly have his site bookmarked for myself and others as a place to look for high quality components backed by an enthusiastic and helpful owner. I think I'll definitely be able to recommend his equipment to my friends in the future at this point.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Well said AP....I couldn't have said it any better !

 Mu unit's ship date has been pushed back to the 21st to allow time to install the preamp function. Kingwa offered to add it and I thought I better have that feature for the review. Simply amazing customer service. 


 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Sounds like Kingwa has found a way around the shipping blackout?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The Holiday starts on the 22nd I think.

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

I thought the blackout started on the 20th based on some previous discussion, i could very well be mistaken.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I guess I'll find out tomorrow if I hear from Kingwa or not. I could be mistaken as well csroc.....I seem to recall seeing the 22nd written somewhere, where ? Beats me.

 I could email Kingwa but I don't want to waste what time he has between now and the deadline.

 Peete.


----------



## slwiser

Is Mr. Kingwa still taking orders at this time?


----------



## csroc

You could probably place an order slwiser, but he's all sold out of the 18 units from the first run. Send him an email if you're interested and he'll let you know.


----------



## Currawong

I imagine that once we've all tried the unit and given feedback, if any changes are required, there will be a version 2 or somesuch. At the very least, there will be a version with a preamp feature built in.


----------



## csroc

He's already commented on the Compass page that there are some changes he wants to apply, like the gain switch (which is already in my list of recommendations before I even receive the thing!).

 I think this should be interesting, with all the useful feedback we can provide we'll get to take advantage of the fruits of Kingwa's labor


----------



## csroc

I couldn't resist...

Audio-gd Compass "Tester's" group


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I respectfully disagree concerning SPDIF always being better than USB and not only because of what follows. For myself anything inside the computer is going to be worst unless you use a card like the Juli@ where you have a great digital signal out. I used this with my last desktop computer with great results._

 

Well, allow me to stand corrected on the whole USB vs S/PDIF issue. Although what I said about higher resolution digital data was meant to apply specifically to the Compass, not to USB in general.

 Interesting strategy to use the M-Audio as USB-S/PDIF converter. That might be something useful I could advise a friend of mine to do.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I couldn't resist...

Audio-gd Compass "Tester's" group_

 

Cool! Joined!

 Very interesting notes by Kingwa on the Compass page (1-19). He is suggesting that the neutral mode of the Compass might actually be too revealing for a lot of people. Yikes, I really want to hear this thing! Now!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess I'll find out tomorrow if I hear from Kingwa or not. I could be mistaken as well csroc.....I seem to recall seeing the 22nd written somewhere, where ? Beats me.

 I could email Kingwa but I don't want to waste what time he has between now and the deadline.

 Peete._

 

 Quote:


 For those in hurry, I have another piece of news..

 Posts will be closed during Chinese New year - Basically from the 22nd Jan till the 10th Feb - so there will be NO shipment of Compass during that period..

 whatever shipping will be done before that - hopefully Compass will be ready for shipping around 19th - 20th January (as per his plans) ..

 Also for guys thinking about OPAMPS etc from that part of the world..

 I am trying to get whatever info I can so so that I get my Compass before that !!

 PS. I must say, he has done a great Job with Compass - it Looks great - very audiophile IMHO.. Hope it sounds as good.. 
 

posted 9th Jan..


----------



## csroc

My mistake then!


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could probably place an order slwiser, but he's all sold out of the 18 units from the first run. Send him an email if you're interested and he'll let you know._

 

I emailed Kingwa and he told me that all early test units have been taken and that if users review are good that he would take an orders probably in late Feb. He really does want the early adopters to hear it and post impressions. Of course with 200 hours of additional burn-in after receipt that would put it into March before anyone know how if finally sounds. 

 Hope some of you will setup meets for others to hear it so the impressions can be a critical in nature instead of fan-of-the-day versions. I know how hard one's excitement is to keep under control. 

 Good luck to all you early adopters.


----------



## mbd2884

Well he is shipping them today and tomorrow. good stuff. Can't wait to send you pics of my DAC/AMP when it arrives.

 And so happy too, cause my AD900, the right side all of sudden went out, sound still coming out but it was soft. I was afraid I would have to get it exchanged with that processing time would take a few weeks to get back. Thank god just opened it up, cleaned up the drivers with a cloth and blew tons of air everywhere. Sounds normal again.

 Phew! Whole reason for getting this DAC/AMP was for my AD900s! Haha, sorry, for that random story, but I love my headphones!


----------



## csroc

The fortunate thing is Kingwa seems to be quick to develop and implement changes so hopefully for the rest of you, you won't have to wait _too_ long to get a Compass once we've got ours.


----------



## ccschua

The additional stuff oon Kingwa design is the output buffer stage.


----------



## slim.a

Hello,
 I have just posted my review of the DAC-100 and the ST-3 headphone amp from audio-gd in a new thread. 
 The link to the review is in my signature.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,
 I have just posted my review of the DAC-100 and the ST-3 headphone amp from audio-gd in a new thread. 
 The link to the review is in my signature._

 

Thanx for that link.


----------



## mbd2884

I will be reading that review also


----------



## mbd2884

I just emailed Kingwa asking in the next version if its possible to get the Knobs for Volume and Source selection (USB/Coax/Optical) in silver and the Headphone Jack in black.

 Told him I would pay for the upgrade, I hope its possible. I think would improve the look of the Compass.

  Quote:


 Hey Kingwa,

 Wanted to send one large email with my suggestions.

 I would suggest changing Super to Bypass. Change Ear Out to Headphone

 Suggest using the Black Headphone Jack instead of the Silver.

 And possibly using the Silver knobs from the C-39 Truly Balanced
 instead of the black ones.

 I personally willing to pay extra for these upgrades.

 Thanks 
 

I just received an email. We can get the Silver Knobs instead, but it would take longer since he can't get them shipped until after holiday. And if the Silver Knobs are a popular suggestion, he may make it in upgrade, a choice for the users.

 He asked his Chinese supplier about the Black Neutrik, they do not supply them, oh well. This is something I'm sure someone here can post a DIY for that on our own.


----------



## csroc

I was going to ask for the black Neutrik jack as well when I send him my feedback. I hadn't thought about silver knobs... that would match some of his other gear if the Compass just had the nice machined aluminum knobs. I'll have to ponder that a bit. I've already started a Word document with a handful of ideas for changes and will add to that list when I get my Compass (later this week I hope!).


----------



## K3cT

Damn... all this talk about the Compass is tempting my poor soul. I suppose there's no point getting the DAC100 anymore no?


----------



## mbd2884

The DAC-100 costs 249$

 Promotional price of the Compass is 258$

 The DAC in the Compass is supposed to be the same as the DAC-100.

 Its up to you, you decide.


----------



## Alai

$9 for super versatility, crazy inputs, an awesome builder with awesome customer service, and a super neat, organized inside that would make DIY to it so much easier?! SIGN ME UP!!!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DAC-100 costs 249$

 Promotional price of the Compass is 258$

 The DAC in the Compass is supposed to be the same as the DAC-100.

 Its up to you, you decide._


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Look guys...keep the cosmetic requests on hold until the unit proves itself first. 

 That stuff can be addressed once all the minor technical wrinkles are sorted. These changes (preamp mode alone) at the last minute mean a lot of work for Kingwa and his team so let's not add to his burden right now....please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I mean no offense by these comments, I'm simply voicing my opinion as I see it.

 The CDM12 Pro arrived today !!! I'm busy assembling (the CD puck needs the assembly) and taking pics ATM. 

 Peete.

 PS My Compass ships today.....what a guy Kingy is.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DAC-100 costs 249$

 Promotional price of the Compass is 258$

 The DAC in the Compass is supposed to be the same as the DAC-100.

 Its up to you, you decide._

 

I know, my friend but like a good boy I am, I think I'm going to wait until the reviews come out before jumping the gun. I have to sell the Zero first to fund the Compass of course.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look guys...keep the cosmetic requests on hold until the unit proves itself first. 

 That stuff can be addressed once all the minor technical wrinkles are sorted. These changes (preamp mode alone) at the last minute mean a lot of work for Kingwa and his team so let's not add to his burden right now....please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I mean no offense by these comments, I'm simply voicing my opinion as I see it._

 

I agree, which is why (aside from responding to others) I'm collecting my thoughts in a Word file instead of posting them here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


 PS My Compass ships today.....what a guy Kingy is. 
 

Mine does too I hope... although he did email em asking me to send my phone number urgently this morning (my time, not his) before he could ship it, so I hope I got that to him on time.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DAC in the Compass is supposed to be the same as the DAC-100.
_

 

I think that your statement may be inaccurate. Did anyone tell you they were the same? Such as Kingwa? I see similarity looking at the boards, but I wouldn't say the DAC's were the same. There "seems' to be a similar design philosophy.

 So, could you post what you are basing this statement on? I would like to know this as well.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I can confirm that the DAC is exactly the same in both models. The AD1852 is used by both.

 However, I'm not saying that the DAC _circuit_ is the same. It appears to be broadly very similar, though... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can confirm that the DAC is exactly the same in both models. The AD1852 is used by both.

 However, I'm not saying that the DAC circuit is the same. It appears to be broadly very similar, though... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Heh, that's a good one! That DAC chip is used in about a zillion DACs probably, and mostly of note, the Zero DAC.

 If you have two amps using KT-88's, that doesn't mean they are the same amp and will sound the same. The assertion here in a few posts is that there is no reason to buy a DAC-100 now, that it is obsolete because as has been noted, only $9 more gets you a Compass that has a DAC-100 in it. It would be interesting to hear what Kingwa says the difference is between the Compass DAC and the DAC-100 is and whether they are the "same". The Comapss DAC looks like a low budget version of the DAC-100 to me. They look like kindred spirits but not the same.

 Does anyone have anything from Audio-gd as to the comparison between the DAC-100 and the Compass's DAC module?


----------



## dBs

Dont forget that the current Compass price is simply trial. It will go up to the estimated $350-400USD after that period has lapsed. Once that point comes around, Compass wont consume the 100s sales, they will be differentiated products. One will have an amp, the other will not (sound differences which arise from engineering differences will be determined soon enough hopefully).

 Until reviews arrive to indicate an auditory difference, and the price goes up, it is a safe assumption that the Compass will consume the 100s sales.


----------



## hdlovar

I'm very interested in buying a Compass and that's been my reasoning for holding off on purchasing the Zero... Actually, I specifically asked my father to delay on a x-mas gift for one. But, I'm a bit worried about the promotional discount ending since I'd like to see one or two reviews before I ask my dad to plop down the $300 for it.

 So, when does the promo period end?

 Like I said, I'd love to snatch one of these up while they're still in the $250 range but if they go much higher I'll have to go back to the cheaper alternative (da Zero).


----------



## Alai

Apparently Kingwa is willing to let the promo price sit for a few months or so, in order for reviews to come out and maybe for tweaks to be made after the reviews. So you have time.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hdlovar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm very interested in buying a Compass and that's been my reasoning for holding off on purchasing the Zero... Actually, I specifically asked my father to delay on a x-mas gift for one. But, I'm a bit worried about the promotional discount ending since I'd like to see one or two reviews before I ask my dad to plop down the $300 for it.

 So, when does the promo period end?

 Like I said, I'd love to snatch one of these up while they're still in the $250 range but if they go much higher I'll have to go back to the cheaper alternative (da Zero)._


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hdlovar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm very interested in buying a Compass and that's been my reasoning for holding off on purchasing the Zero... Actually, I specifically asked my father to delay on a x-mas gift for one. But, I'm a bit worried about the promotional discount ending since I'd like to see one or two reviews before I ask my dad to plop down the $300 for it.

 So, when does the promo period end?

 Like I said, I'd love to snatch one of these up while they're still in the $250 range but if they go much higher I'll have to go back to the cheaper alternative (da Zero)._

 

If I were in your position, I wouldn't consider the Zero. We've had some terrible issues with QC of the Zero. There is no manufacturer backing up the Zero. If there is a failure, you are at the mercy of the seller and how many times you want to fly your Zero back to China at $50 a whack, and I am convinced this tactic is used to discourage warranty claims. Audio-gd has exemplary support for their products. The products that have been reviewed by them got rave reviews. If there are issues they are handled first rate. They are handled in a Western type fashion.

 This product has not been reviewed for SQ yet. But knowing what we "know" about Audio-gd, there is basically a "ZERO" chance of getting stuck with a bad product -- pun intended. It's a no brainer.

 What everyone is hoping for here is that "we" end up with a truly magical product at a fraction of the cost that something like this would cost from someone else. The Zero quality wise is in a different category than the Compass. If you Only have enough money to get a Zero, it's a different scenario, but if you have the $$$, then it would be a Compass for me at least. You have plenty of time to make up your mind. However, I'm betting the reviews do well for the Compass. The builder is interested in what we have to say about the product, which is unique to my experience.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The builder is interested in what we have to say about the product, which is unique to my experience._

 

And based on what I've seen from talking with him to this point, he wants to make sure that he can use our feedback to improve the Compass. He already has a reputation for responding to customer suggestions apparently, as he has made changes to other products (one of the OPAs for example I believe) in the past.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have anything from Audio-gd as to the comparison between the DAC-100 and the Compass's DAC module?_

 

The DAC 100 has a slightly better power supply and again slightly better parts than Compass, but Compass is all aluminum chassis (this does not effect the SQ though). 

 How much difference the above makes?. We will know soon..

 Edit - although according to his views, the Compass sounded little better than the DAC100 and ST3 combo, maybe this is because the HP of Compass can be tweaked - Finally, it really depends from person to person, ear to ear and personal taste, so its not a conclusive results.


----------



## mbd2884

Sandchak had asked Kingwa earlier about the DAC in Compass compared to DAC-100. Kingwa said it would be pretty much identical using the same high grade parts. I am assuming the only changes really would be so that it fits in the Compass casing and changes needed to make sure it works with the AMP. 

 "USB IC is PCM2707, DIR is DIR9001, DA is AD1852, OPA is our MOON," quoted from Kingwa. The PCM2707 is pretty much the best USB DAC available from TI, Burr-Brown. And the AD1852 was reviewed here at Head-Fi as being one of the best for neutral accurate sound, and with Kingwa's design, the DAC-100 got rave reviews. Between these two DAC's and Kingwa's design, its about as solid as it can be for the DAC unless you DIY or pay exorbitant amount of money.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5189331-post144.html

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think that your statement may be inaccurate. Did anyone tell you they were the same? Such as Kingwa? I see similarity looking at the boards, but I wouldn't say the DAC's were the same. There "seems' to be a similar design philosophy.

 So, could you post what you are basing this statement on? I would like to know this as well._


----------



## sandchak

Some more edit to my above post:

 I think I am mistaken - According to Kingwa, Aluminum Chassis does make a difference - reason:aluminum box can't transfer the effect of transformers (50/60Hz effect), iron chassis does.

 So put the together everything, Compass DAC is similar to DAC 100, additionally Compass has optical and Neutral HP amp -which is close to HP AMP "C2C" and different from ST3.


----------



## Currawong

Well, the whole purpose of the Compass is that, instead of having to suggest the Zero, which is a bit luck-of-the-draw if you buy it, you can get something quality the first time round. But basically, after Les bitched to me about recommending the Zero after the QC issues, I emailed Kingwa and asked if he could make something similar. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Review units should arrive soon (I hope, as everything he's ever sent me from China has been a bit slow arriving, but that's DHL probably) so you'll know soon, from 18 of us, how it sounds.


----------



## csroc

I think he said he's get me a tracking number the day after it shipped, so I'm looking forward to that.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the whole purpose of the Compass is that, instead of having to suggest the Zero, which is a bit luck-of-the-draw if you buy it, you can get something quality the first time round. But basically, after Les bitched to me about recommending the Zero after the QC issues, I emailed Kingwa and asked if he could make something similar. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Review units should arrive soon (I hope, as everything he's ever sent me from China has been a bit slow arriving, but that's DHL probably) so you'll know soon, from 18 of us, how it sounds._

 

Bitched is such a strong word...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Review units should arrive soon (I hope, as everything he's ever sent me from China has been a bit slow arriving, but that's DHL probably) so you'll know soon, from 18 of us, how it sounds._

 

Maybe 4PX will do the trick this time and it will reach soon! Very much anticipating your's and Peete's review..


----------



## K3cT

4PX was rather slow in delivering those discrete OPAs to me.


----------



## gevorg

Will Compass convert USB signal to SPDIF or straight to I2S?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will Compass convert USB signal to SPDIF or straight to I2S?_

 

The Compass uses the same design as the DAC-100. They both convert the USB signal into I2S before sending it to the DAC.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Has anyone had confirmation of shipment yet?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## csroc

nope, not yet.


----------



## sandchak

He is shipping the 18 Compass in 3 batches - 6 left on 19th, 6 on 20th and I presume 6 will go out today.. (all shipped..)


----------



## csroc

Ahh, I had thought they were all going out the 19th. Fair enough then. I wasn't particularly concerned.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahh, I had thought they were all going out the 19th. Fair enough then. I wasn't particularly concerned._

 

Well, if you happen to be Joseph or Carl or Michael from the US, you should be getting it the earliest as it left on the first batch 19th !!


----------



## csroc

Well I am either Joseph or Carl or Michael from the US so that's good to hear!


----------



## Sganzerla

He said mine was sent already. I can't wait very long... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Hopefully I will have not to pay the outrageous taxes my government applies.


----------



## sandchak

I dont know if your Government and taxes will be a problem, because he usually declares his stuffs as samples and in the value between USD50-60, But DHL seems to be creating some problems. I guess this is due to the Chinese New Year rush, they never even gave tracking info for 2 days and now that is, it says my Compass was shipped in "1970" !!.. Its a tough time to ship from China now..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont know if your Government and taxes will be a problem, because he usually declares his stuffs as samples and in the value between USD50-60, But DHL seems to be creating some problems. I guess this is due to the Chinese New Year rush, they never even gave tracking info for 2 days and now that is, it says my Compass was shipped in "1970" !!.. Its a tough time to ship from China now.._

 

Jeez, 1970! And it still hasn't arrived?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Cool, by the way. Vintage Compass.)

 I must say I'm also curious what the damage will be in fees and taxes. My experience with DHL and UPS and the like are not very positive in that area. Even if taxes are reasonably low (what you say sounds reassuring) they will still charge you quite a hefty fee for handling.

 Oh well, in the end I don't really care, I just want my Compass! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (I know, I know...patience is a virtue. )

 By the way, thanks for keeping us informed! Now let's just hope our Compasses won't get stuck in the Chinese New Year madness.


----------



## Sganzerla

From what I know if one uses regular services (national post offices) like USPS from US for example, there is a possibility of not being taxed. If this happens the cost will be (product+shipping)60%. I had my K701 taxed, but the declared value was low, so no problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Yamaha RH5-MA and some other things in a very big box weren't taxed, my Zero with a declared value of US$ 140.00 and my Tributaries cables SVC did not too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 UPS, FedEx, DHL and other courier services is 99% chances of being taxed. And then... 60% of the product+shipping, plus 18% on all of this and another tax. It is possible that you pay 100% more on the product.

 Kingwa didn't send via DHL and declared US$ 50.00, said something like Express shipping. My comunication with him is sometimes problematic because English is not our native language, but he looks like a fine person to deal with.

 I really don't mind paying some taxes, but 80% looks very wrong to me. By the way I live in Brazil.

 Let's wait, there is nothing more one can do.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I know if one uses regular services (national post offices) like USPS from US for example, there is a possibility of not being taxed. If this happens the cost will be (product+shipping)60%. I had my K701 taxed, but the declared value was low, so no problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Yamaha RH5-MA and some other things in a very big box weren't taxed, my Zero with a declared value of US$ 140.00 and my Tributaries cables SVC did not too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 UPS, FedEx, DHL and other courier services is 99% chances of being taxed. And then... 60% of the product+shipping, plus 18% on all of this and another tax. It is possible that you pay 100% more on the product.

 Kingwa didn't send via DHL and declared US$ 50.00, said something like Express shipping. My comunication with him is sometimes problematic because English is not our native language, but he looks like a fine person to deal with.

 I really don't mind paying some taxes, but 80% looks very wrong to me. By the way I live in Brazil.

 Let's wait, there is nothing more one can do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi,
 Intersting. The only Customs Taxes I have had to pay were when I was shipped some things via Fedex from Japan. All the USPS/EMS packages I have never been taxed on. I had never noticed that pattern before. 

 Good luck to all the guys waiting for the Compass! Can't wait to hear all the Feedback on it.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I know if one uses regular services (national post offices) like USPS from US for example, there is a possibility of not being taxed. If this happens the cost will be (product+shipping)60%. I had my K701 taxed, but the declared value was low, so no problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Yamaha RH5-MA and some other things in a very big box weren't taxed, my Zero with a declared value of US$ 140.00 and my Tributaries cables SVC did not too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 UPS, FedEx, DHL and other courier services is 99% chances of being taxed. And then... 60% of the product+shipping, plus 18% on all of this and another tax. It is possible that you pay 100% more on the product.

 Kingwa didn't send via DHL and declared US$ 50.00, said something like Express shipping. My comunication with him is sometimes problematic because English is not our native language, but he looks like a fine person to deal with.

 I really don't mind paying some taxes, but 80% looks very wrong to me. By the way I live in Brazil.

 Let's wait, there is nothing more one can do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

In which case, I should consider myself lucky! This place does not charge any customs duty for imports (for personal use) till USD750, and anything above that a 5% flat rate ! no wonder it was rated as of the easiest place to do business by IMF last year..


----------



## csroc

Well I hope I don't have to pay any ridiculous fees. I know Kingwa does everything he can to avoid them and I'm pretty sure he says on his site if you're asked to pay feels contact him first. Still... what a pain.


----------



## Drosera

For most countries in the Eurozone there is the neccessity of having to pay what the English call VAT (Value Added Tax). The percentage varies with the type of product, but on something like electronics it will be 19% of the original price (at least in The Netherlands). This goes for every imported product with a value over 20 Euro (in The Netherlands). As far as I know, this type of tax does not exist in, for example, the USA. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) As an example, this is why products from Meier Audio have different prices in and outside the EU (and are considerably cheaper outside the EU, the difference is about 19%).

 It is my experience as well that using the regular postal service gives you a pretty good change of evading all this. No change at all of that with couriers like DHL, etc. My headphones from Bluetin.com arrived without any extra tax charges via regular mail, the same goes for my regular shopping at Amazon.com. I'm very grateful though that a lot of sellers are willing to put a lower declared value on their packages (without me prompting them to do so).

 Kingwa actually says on his site (and in his mail to me) that you should refuse to pay "extra shipping cost or unfair tax". The problem is, most of these import duties fall under "fair tax". (Or at the very least, legal tax. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) )


----------



## csroc

Haha well I guess Kingwa isn't telling you not to pay "fair taxes" where required 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know of nothing like that in the US, but only really have experience with international shipments from UPS and FedEx.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For most countries in the Eurozone there is the neccessity of having to pay what the English call VAT (Value Added Tax). The percentage varies with the type of product, but on something like electronics it will be 19% of the original price (at least in The Netherlands). This goes for every imported product with a value over 20 Euro (in The Netherlands). As far as I know, this type of tax does not exist in, for example, the USA. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) As an example, this is why products from Meier Audio have different prices in and outside the EU (and are considerably cheaper outside the EU, the difference is about 19%).

 It is my experience as well that using the regular postal service gives you a pretty good change of evading all this. No change at all of that with couriers like DHL, etc. My headphones from Bluetin.com arrived without any extra tax charges via regular mail, the same goes for my regular shopping at Amazon.com. I'm very grateful though that a lot of sellers are willing to put a lower declared value on their packages (without me prompting them to do so).

 Kingwa actually says on his site (and in his mail to me) that you should refuse to pay "extra shipping cost or unfair tax". The problem is, most of these import duties fall under "fair tax". (Or at the very least, legal tax. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) )_

 

Hello,
 I don't want to start a Political discussion, but VAT and other consumption Taxes are levied where there is no income tax often. So if you don't consume, you are not taxed, additionally, trying to avoid VAT is tantamount to avoiding income Taxes in the US. It's a little hard for me to feel empathy for a 12-19% consumption Tax where we are paying Upwards of 50% of our income in some type of taxes including social security taxes, state income taxes, federal income taxes, sales taxes, payroll taxes, etc, etc. There is a occasionally a movement afoot to modify our Tax code to switch to a consumption type tax like VAT. I don't know which would be better. Do you pay consumption taxes and Income taxes where you live?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,
 I don't want to start a Political discussion, but VAT and other consumption Taxes are levied where there is no income tax often. So if you don't consume, you are not taxed, additionally, trying to avoid VAT is tantamount to avoiding income Taxes in the US. It's a little hard for me to feel empathy for a 12-19% consumption Tax where we are paying Upwards of 50% of our income in some type of taxes including social security taxes, state income taxes, federal income taxes, sales taxes, payroll taxes, etc, etc. There is a occasionally a movement afoot to modify our Tax code to switch to a consumption type tax like VAT. I don't know which would be better. Do you pay consumption taxes and Income taxes where you live?_

 

LOL There are reasons people flee The Netherlands to Belgium when their income becomes too high!
 No, Les, no shortage of income tax here. Regular income tax varies from 42-52% (on regular level income) and that's excluding a lot of other minor taxes. 
 And everything else is highly taxed: gas, food, services, etc.

 Do I think that's a bad thing? No, not at all. There are reasons for high taxes, such as affordable health care, a good system of social benefits, good roads. (I recently was amazed to see what state some of your busiest roads in Washington DC are in. Not trying to say anything negative about your beautiful country, but things clicked when I saw that.)

 Do I think it's a duty to pay taxes? Yes. Do I think that it's nice that once in a long while you can avoid paying taxes on a certain product (not unlike tax-free shopping at the airport)? Yes, that too.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL There are reasons people flee The Netherlands to Belgium when their income becomes too high!
 No, Les, no shortage of income tax here. Regular income tax varies from 42-52% (on regular level income) and that's excluding a lot of other minor taxes. 
 And everything else is highly taxed: gas, food, services, etc.

 Do I think that's a bad thing? No, not at all. There are reasons for high taxes, such as affordable health care, a good system of social benefits, good roads. (I recently was amazed to see what state some of your busiest roads in Washington DC are in. Not trying to say anything negative about your beautiful country, but things clicked when I saw that.)

 Do I think it's a duty to pay taxes? Yes. Do I think that it's nice that once in a long while you can avoid paying taxes on a certain product (not unlike tax-free shopping at the airport)? Yes, that too._

 

I would not want to pay Income AND consumption tax. Sounds like time to overthrow the King!


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do I think that's a bad thing? No, not at all. There are reasons for high taxes, such as affordable health care, a good system of social benefits, good roads. (I recently was amazed to see what state some of your busiest roads in Washington DC are in. Not trying to say anything negative about your beautiful country, but things clicked when I saw that.)_

 

Unfortunately people in this country are averse to paying for the things it needs in many cases. Infrastructure like roads, bridges and other transport systems are a good example.


----------



## mbd2884

I am Michael from USA, how exciting!


----------



## csroc

All we need now are tracking #s!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would not want to pay Income AND consumption tax. Sounds like time to overthrow the King!_

 

Well, it's a queen. (Figures, it's The Netherlands after all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)

 If you don't like it, you can always leave. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, sometimes it hurts losing so much of your income on taxes. But then again, I'm paying for a great feeling of security: when I become unemployed, I still get 70% of my income. When I become disabled, I'll still have an income. When I get sick, I won't need to worry about the hospital bills. Etc.

 You pays your money and you takes your choice. (Oh wait, in this case they just take your money.)


----------



## dwong

Has anyone that has ordered the Compass have or have listened to one of the Keces DACs (either the USB 151 or the SPDIF 131 versions). I would really like to know how the two will compare.


----------



## Andrew Jones

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Do I think that's a bad thing? No, not at all. There are reasons for high taxes, such as affordable health care, a good system of social benefits, good roads._

 

:begin_rant.
 You should try living in the UK, loads of tax (coming at us from all directions, some of it called "national insurance" so the parasites in power can claim it isn't really tax), a crumbling health infrastructure, badly maintained roads, but plenty of work-shy layabouts getting "social benefits". Reagan had one thing right, which was to keep government as small as possible, simply because governments waste money, everything they do is inefficient. Sadly in the UK we are lumbered with a government that thinks it needs to control and regulate everything (maybe they're trying to emulate our neighbours in the Netherlands !)
 :end_rant


----------



## csroc

Got my tracking # just a bit ago!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my tracking # just a bit ago!_

 


 You should see it by Tuesday or so next week, I would think

 Ohh, I just noticed you are in NY, that should help!



 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yep me too.....Mr Z is doing the legwork today....39 years in transit...that box is going to look like a Daylek that fell down a mineshaft after it arrives 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Compass uses the same design as the DAC-100. They both convert the USB signal into I2S before sending it to the DAC._

 

Thanks! Together with DIR9001, Compass might be quite a low jitter device.


 The OP also says "There is the possibility of different versions of the unit, with, say, a better headphone amp or somesuch."

 Are there any details out about this yet?


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! Together with DIR9001, Compass might be quite a low jitter device.


 The OP also says "There is the possibility of different versions of the unit, with, say, a better headphone amp or somesuch."

 Are there any details out about this yet?_

 

Nope, not yet... apart from preamp functionality likely to be added to the next batch Kingwa produces


----------



## mbd2884

Yep, I have a tracking number now also.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The OP also says "There is the possibility of different versions of the unit, with, say, a better headphone amp or somesuch."

 Are there any details out about this yet?_

 

I'd be surprised if that happened honestly. I do expect to see various changes to layout or other things after we get them and start giving Kingwa feedback. Perhaps another product will be developed after the Compass is finished, a higher grade unit at a considerably higher price point was discussed a couple pages ago in this thread I think.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew Jones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_:begin_rant.
 You should try living in the UK, loads of tax (coming at us from all directions, some of it called "national insurance" so the parasites in power can claim it isn't really tax), a crumbling health infrastructure, badly maintained roads, but plenty of work-shy layabouts getting "social benefits". Reagan had one thing right, which was to keep government as small as possible, simply because governments waste money, everything they do is inefficient. Sadly in the UK we are lumbered with a government that thinks it needs to control and regulate everything (maybe they're trying to emulate our neighbours in the Netherlands !)
 :end_rant




_

 






 Well, you can, no doubt, guess from my idealizing of a high-tax system that I'm of a leftish persuasion. So I actually like a big government that tries to control everything. And I agree with you, it's terribly inefficient and wasteful. The problem is, in my view, it's either that, or things not getting done at all.

 But let's get back to the topic. Tracking number was sent to me as well. Unfortunately, it's still in Hong Kong.
 I think mine will turn out to be shipped somewhere in 1935. Which means I'll have the tube version. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: Oh wait, I didn't look carefully enough at the DHL page. Mine was shipped in January 1970 as well! Bugger, that probably means early solid state technology. Not something to look forward to.


----------



## Joeoboe

I am Joseph fom the US... I have my tracking number... can't wait to start the review process!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I am either Joseph or Carl or Michael from the US so that's good to hear!_

 

Let me guess.. you must be Carl !!..

 Btw, those that have DHL tracking numbers, does it still show shipment info received in HK on 1st Jan 1970 or are there any further info (on its movement)?..


----------



## AudioPhewl

^Mine did. It now says it was collected at 1654... so, rather than the early solid-state stuff of 1970, it appears mine won't even be running on steam power... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I did ask Kingwa when mine shipped, and he said the 20th, so maybe DHL are just running a bit late at updating their tracking results.

 Does anyone else find the DHL site to be rubbish? Mine keeps coming up with "Sorry, your request could not be filled"...

 Actually, after hitting refresh, it appears mine has now been processed at Hong Kong at 1720. Maybe it is updating in real time, and Kingwa didn't get it shipped as quick as he'd have liked to...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone else find the DHL site to be rubbish? Mine keeps coming up with "Sorry, your request could not be filled"..._

 

Yeah, same here. One of the largest courier services in the world and they can't even provide a decent website.

 Just got it to work again. Still says 1970. Well, let's see how it will compare with my 1970's Pioneer integrated amp.


----------



## Currawong

Hmm, mine is already in Japan, in Tokyo, so I imagine it'll be here tomorrow sometime. If it arrives in time for the weekend, that'll be perfect for some initial impressions.


----------



## sandchak

Well it is frustrating to live in the past, although I have a feeling we might just get the compass without the tracking being updated !! in fact some links from the Chinese DHL pages has spywares as my google browser warns, maybe its hacked!! 

 But anyway, I guess the 4PX did the trick for Curra this time and we would hear his initial impressions soon !!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, same here. One of the largest courier services in the world and they can't even provide a decent website.

 Just got it to work again. Still says 1970. Well, let's see how it will compare with my 1970's Pioneer integrated amp._


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it is frustrating to live in the past, although I have a feeling we might just get the compass without the tracking being updated !! in fact some links from the Chinese DHL pages has spywares as my google browser warns, maybe its hacked!! 

 But anyway, I guess the 4PX did the trick for Curra this time and we would hear his initial impressions soon !!_

 

Or maybe they've disappeared, just like Tyson's gear the first time 'round. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well, we'll see. I just have to get myself to stop checking the DHL tracking every 5 minutes. It's very distracting.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or maybe they've disappeared, just like Tyson's gear the first time 'round. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well, we'll see. I just have to get myself to stop checking the DHL tracking every 5 minutes. It's very distracting._

 

Well, with China being the worlds largest exporter, and in a scenario where shipping will be stopped due to New Years, can you imagine the rush??.. a perfect background for another "Tyson story" !!

 according to DHL China, its so much rush that they cant find a single person to update the web tracking !

 maybe that is why Kingwa decided to send in three separate batches..( my guess )


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_according to DHL China, its so much rush that they cant find a single person to update the web tracking !_

 

Really? They said that? Oh well, not much use checking their website then.
 My only problem with this is that I don't know when I will have to stay home to receive the delivery.


----------



## sandchak

Yeah, when he called up DHL, they said due to Chinese New year, there was so much goods to be shipped abroad that they did not have enough workers to update the web, that was before the web was updated (of some sorts) yesterday, but it doesn't really seem its being updated any further..

 Just thinking of it, Compass seems to be the perfect name in the given circumstances - hope it finds its way and reaches everyone safely !!

 I think the tracking is getting a little streamlined now - it says shipment picked up - and the dates are back to normal.. it looks its all happening in snails speed.. don't care as long it reaches safely.. best place to check updates I think is DHL USA website - more info..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_best place to check updates I think is DHL USA website - more info.._

 

Hey, you're right! That website even displays the small town it should go to (and where I live). 
 'Description: PCB Module' That's an interesting way of putting it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways, mine has been picked up as well. Still in 1970 though (or completely without a date on the US site).


----------



## mbd2884

Mine is still being processed in China. Poops, was hoping to try it out this weekend.


----------



## csroc

Mine was shipped in 2009 so it sounds like I will be getting modern technology, unlike the rest of you.

 1/22/2009 10:20 pm Processed at DHL Location. Hong Kong, Hong Kong
 7:55 pm Departing origin. Hong Kong, Hong Kong
 7:42 pm Shipment picked up Hong Kong, Hong Kong

 Ship date: 1/22/2009


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or maybe they've disappeared, just like Tyson's gear the first time 'round. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well, we'll see. I just have to get myself to stop checking the DHL tracking every 5 minutes. It's very distracting._

 

I hope they don't go through Logan Airport!!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope they don't go through Logan Airport!!_

 

Howzat??


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, you're right! That website even displays the small town it should go to (and where I live). 
 'Description: PCB Module' That's an interesting way of putting it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Anyways, mine has been picked up as well. Still in 1970 though (or completely without a date on the US site)._

 




 He sells a lot of PCB Modules, and is trying to make customs ignore it for the most part, I'm sure.



 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He sells a lot of PCB Modules, and is trying to make customs ignore it for the most part, I'm sure._

 

Curiously, the description has changed now to: "General Commodity WPX Printed Circui[t Board]" Let's hope it works.


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah mine says what yours says. Except wrong address, its being sent to my home address instead of work. I really hope it doesn't need a signature since I won't be home when it arrives.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine was shipped in 2009 so it sounds like I will be getting modern technology, unlike the rest of you.

 1/22/2009 10:20 pm Processed at DHL Location. Hong Kong, Hong Kong
 7:55 pm Departing origin. Hong Kong, Hong Kong
 7:42 pm Shipment picked up Hong Kong, Hong Kong

 Ship date: 1/22/2009_


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Howzat?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 You aren't following the Senn HD800 thread. There were 20 pairs of those Canz disappeared at that Airport on the way to CES. 

 Kinda a Goodfellas deal!! I'll bet some guys name Moose and Rocco are selling HD800's in Boston for a price, if ya know somebody. For the rest of us...

 Fughedaboutit !!!

YouTube - Donnie Brasco - Forget About It

http://www.noveal.org/forgetaboutit/forgetaboutit.swf



 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You aren't following the Senn HD800 thread. There were 20 pairs of those Canz disappeared at that Airport on the way to CES. 

 Kinda a Goodfellas deal!! I'll bet some guys name Moose and Rocco are selling HD800's in Boston for a price, if ya know somebody. For the rest of us...

 Fughedaboutit !!!

YouTube - Donnie Brasco - Forget About It

http://www.noveal.org/forgetaboutit/forgetaboutit.swf

 ._

 

The HD800? Fughedaboutit!
 Interesting that, I guess there are 20 very happy customs officers in Boston now.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Here are the numbers for the soft settings ( I requested the info from Kingwa yesterday) Direct quote....

 "The soft mode is through the RC mode to roll off highs.
 Neutral mode: 5HZ(-1DB),60Khz (-3DB)
 Soft1 mode: 5HZ(-1DB),30KHZ(-3DB)
 Soft2 mode: 5HZ(-1DB),24KHz(-3DB)
 Soft 3 mode: 5HZ(-1DB),17KHz(-3DB).
 If fact, the Soft mode can roll off much, like 13K(-3DB),then the Soft 3 will much soft then now, but I think it is by yours reviews.
 Kingwa "

 Of course I will include this info in the review but I thought it might be useful to everyone getting a Test unit that they see this information before they arrive. Makes evaluation of each mode a little easier to understand and possibly quantify. 

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here are the numbers for the soft settings ( I requested the info from Kingwa yesterday) Direct quote....

 "The soft mode is through the RC mode to roll off highs.
 Neutral mode: 5HZ(-1DB),60Khz (-3DB)
 Soft1 mode: 5HZ(-1DB),30KHZ(-3DB)
 Soft2 mode: 5HZ(-1DB),24KHz(-3DB)
 Soft 3 mode: 5HZ(-1DB),17KHz(-3DB).
 If fact, the Soft mode can roll off much, like 13K(-3DB),then the Soft 3 will much soft then now, but I think it is by yours reviews.
 Kingwa "

 Of course I will include this info in the review but I thought it might be useful to everyone getting a Test unit that they see this information before they arrive. Makes evaluation of each mode a little easier to understand and possibly quantify. 

 Peete._

 

Hi,
 Maybe he'll construct some Graphs for the website. That would be in his interest for sure. Who else's can do this after all? This is a major function/feature.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah mine says what yours says. Except wrong address, its being sent to my home address instead of work. I really hope it doesn't need a signature since I won't be home when it arrives._

 

If its DHL you'll need one xD, unless you specified otherwise. You can always call up again to arrange for another delivery otherwise the alternative is to pick it up from the depot iirc


----------



## Doorknob

Got the tracking number and it appears they happen to have my first line of address missing and the second line with some odd mistakes. 99999 as a zip code (+1).

 Well it appears to have shipped today. God knows where that mysterious address leads to. Maybe mine.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Status on mine hasn't updated for over 12 hours now. It has departed Hong Kong, ~12.25 hours ago. It would be nice if it was now in the UK, going through customs, and out for delivery in 5 hours time... but that's not going to happen. I'll check back in the morning, and the site will tell me it is in Outer Mongolia for the weekend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## AlexinExile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got the tracking number and it appears they happen to have my first line of address missing and the second line with some odd mistakes. 99999 as a zip code (+1).

 Well it appears to have shipped today. God knows where that mysterious address leads to. Maybe mine._

 

Thats strange I just noticed the city on the shipping address for my package is incorrect, I guess we will see what happens.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Status on mine hasn't updated for over 12 hours now. It has departed Hong Kong, ~12.25 hours ago. It would be nice if it was now in the UK, going through customs, and out for delivery in 5 hours time... but that's not going to happen. I'll check back in the morning, and the site will tell me it is in Outer Mongolia for the weekend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

So does it feel good knowing you will be probably the first in the UK to ever receive one of these? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wonder if my Zero will ever turn up???


----------



## Tyson

DHL often has zero updates after leaving china until is actually shows up on your door. 

 It will be tempting for everyone to post immediate impressions, but I'd again caution that the audio-gd gear really does take a while to burn in and start sounding really good.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I second Tyson's viewpoint.

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tyson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DHL often has zero updates after leaving china until is actually shows up on your door._

 

Interesting. Since mine supposedly shipped the first day (Monday I think) I wonder if that means it really took them a couple days to do much with it, or if they're just really delayed on getting info updated and the dates aren't correct.

 I guess it will show up sometime in the next week.


----------



## Tyson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. Since mine supposedly shipped the first day (Monday I think) I wonder if that means it really took them a couple days to do much with it, or if they're just really delayed on getting info updated and the dates aren't correct.

 I guess it will show up sometime in the next week._

 

Good chance it will be there tomorrow, if my past experience is anything to go by.


----------



## csroc

That would be nice! Of course it would probably cause me to forget about putting together the Millett Starving Student I should be getting parts for tomorrow.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

I'm starting to get really excited now, I can't wait until the first wave of reviews to come out. The longer it takes to get the second wave polished and released, the better. I need the time to save up some funds. I'm going to sell off some old things and hope for the best! Hopefully selling my old textbooks should be enough...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

DHL's site is bad for getting real time info posted in a timely fashion...they are really fast though when it comes to making deliveries. I had some parts coming from Kingwa in early Nov (last year) and before they even updated to say the package had left HK the doorbell rang and there was my package...3 days that time.

 Odds are the website is 2-3 days behind and with shipments to N America taking 4 days on average...well. Hopefully some of you guys will be getting your Compasses Friday...the rest of us most likely Monday or Tuesday although I won't be surprised to see the man tomorrow if he does come. I would actually prefer it comes Monday or Tuesday since I need more time to fix Frank. He's got a major problem (my fault, stupid mistake).

 EDIT: The DHL site has updated my package status to arrived at HK sort facility...LOL....

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here are the numbers for the soft settings ( I requested the info from Kingwa yesterday) Direct quote....

 "The soft mode is through the RC mode to roll off highs.
 Neutral mode: 5HZ(-1DB),60Khz (-3DB)
 Soft1 mode: 5HZ(-1DB),30KHZ(-3DB)
 Soft2 mode: 5HZ(-1DB),24KHz(-3DB)
 Soft 3 mode: 5HZ(-1DB),17KHz(-3DB).
 If fact, the Soft mode can roll off much, like 13K(-3DB),then the Soft 3 will much soft then now, but I think it is by yours reviews.
 Kingwa "_

 

Thanks for these, that's interesting stuff! But, yeah, x2 on the graphs. It's kinda hard to figure out what a roll-off of -3dB at 30 KHz will do for the frequencies at 17 KHz.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tyson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It will be tempting for everyone to post immediate impressions, but I'd again caution that the audio-gd gear really does take a while to burn in and start sounding really good._

 

Indeed. Personally, my plan is to write one or two sentences about it and then maintain radio silence for quite some time.

 Apparently it would also be advisable to be a little patient when the Compass arrives (at least, for those of us living in a Northern Hemisphere temperate climate), as per Kingwa's instructions: "When relocating Compass from a very cold temperature atmosphere to a warm temperature room, users must leave Compass idle for 3-4 hours before powering ON."


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apparently it would also be advisable to be a little patient when the Compass arrives (at least, for those of us living in a Northern Hemisphere temperate climate), as per Kingwa's instructions: "When relocating Compass from a very cold temperature atmosphere to a warm temperature room, users must leave Compass idle for 3-4 hours before powering ON."_

 

I didn't see those instructions but that's a smart thing to do with basically any electronics.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't see those instructions but that's a smart thing to do with basically any electronics._

 

Do you happen to know why that is? Can capacitors freeze??


----------



## csroc

Condensation, generally. Same thing that happens if you wear glasses for instance... going from a cold and dry environment to a warm and moister (relatively moister at least, even in the winter when it feels dry inside there's still more moisture than outside in the cold air) environment can cause moisture to condense on electronics which is obviously not the best thing in the world.

 Of course I don't always care/wait/do anything about it but if you want to be cautious give things time to warm up or even better let them warm up in a sealed bag so moisture can't condense on the electronics themselves. I do tend to leave my camera at least in its camera bag when I bring it inside from cold weather when I've been shooting. I figure that should be enough to keep out most condensation.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Condensation, generally. Same thing that happens if you wear glasses for instance... going from a cold and dry environment to a warm and moister (relatively moister at least, even in the winter when it feels dry inside there's still more moisture than outside in the cold air) environment can cause moisture to condense on electronics which is obviously not the best thing in the world.

 Of course I don't always care/wait/do anything about it but if you want to be cautious give things time to warm up or even better let them warm up in a sealed bag so moisture can't condense on the electronics themselves. I do tend to leave my camera at least in its camera bag when I bring it inside from cold weather when I've been shooting. I figure that should be enough to keep out most condensation._

 

Thanks, that does make sense. It would certainly be a sad thing to see your Compass disintegrate in a rain of sparks at first activation.


----------



## mbd2884

According to DHL website, my Compass hasn't even left Hong Kong yet.


----------



## sandchak

At least you know where it is, mine says it left last night but I cant see where its gone!!!


----------



## Currawong

Mine still says that it has arrived in Tokyo, so I think that the lack of updates for a day is due to it being on a truck heading out here, as it didn't arrive today.


----------



## Doorknob

Mine has arrived at Los Angeles and departed at 4:25 A.M. Which means I will possibly get it sometime later today.

 This calls for celebration. Cork opener is at the ready.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed. Personally, my plan is to write one or two sentences about it and then maintain radio silence for quite some time._

 

That means that it'll take a little while for feedback to reach us and Kingwa, which means any potential changes might be delayed... I think I'll just go ahead and jump on the bandwagon. I'm very confident it'll be great...

 I did ask Kingwa if I should wait, and this is what he said.

  Quote:


 Wait the upgrade version.
 Same price but had much upgrade. 
 

Wait... but wait how long?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That means that it'll take a little while for feedback to reach us and Kingwa, which means any potential changes might be delayed... I think I'll just go ahead and jump on the bandwagon. I'm very confident it'll be great..._

 

I realize this is a bit of a nuisance and I will try and let the people here (but certainly Kingwa) know how it sounds from the start. But to get an impression of the completely burned-in product will take time. Moreover, there's has been so much talk of long burn-in times for Audio-Gd products now (both the gear in general and the OPA's) that no-one here will even trust an early review.


----------



## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I realize this is a bit of a nuisance and I will try and let the people here (but certainly Kingwa) know how it sounds from the start. But to get an impression of the completely burned-in product will take time. Moreover, there's has been so much talk of long burn-in times for Audio-Gd products now (both the gear in general and the OPA's) that no-one here will even trust an early review._

 

I have owned all three HDAMs for several weeks and I realized no signs of burn-in. It's a myth or another component burnt-in in the meanwhile, especially that these toys are for guys who re-solder, replace and reconnect parts quite often. There is nothing in the Audio-gd op-amps to settle down within longer period than a couple of hours. All I can say in addition to my review (see signature) is that the Sun v.2 improved when I switched from +-12V to +-15V supply voltages. The other two didn't - the Moon for sure and the Earth maybe sounds clearer but this is no improvement, just a very slight change.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have owned all three HDAMs for several weeks and I realized no signs of burn-in. It's a myth or another component burnt-in in the meanwhile, especially that these toys are for guys who re-solder, replace and reconnect parts quite often. There is nothing in the Audio-gd op-amps to settle down within longer period than a couple of hours. All I can say in addition to my review (see signature) is that the Sun v.2 improved when I switched from +-12V to +-15V supply voltages. The other two didn't - the Moon for sure and the Earth maybe sounds clearer but this is no improvement, just a very slight change._

 

I've read your excellent review. But I also read Pricklely Peete's commentary in which he said he had compared extensively used Audio-Gd OPA's with recently bought versions and found very clear differences.

 Personally, I'm always quite sceptical of burn-in as a phenomenon, or rather, of mechanical explanations for the phenomenon. For me it will always be best explained as either partly or wholly psychological. But then again, such testimony as that from Pricklely Peete cited above is convincing. (We really need more of such comparisons.)

 In the end, whether psychological or mechanical, burn-in is such a ubiquitous phenomenon that you have to accept it as real and take into account that newly bought equipment might change in (perceived) sound signature over time. It is actually quite irrelevant if the underlying cause is mechanical or psychological, the bottom line is simply that, to give a good impression of what equipment sounds like in the long term, one needs to take a bit of time.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I realize this is a bit of a nuisance and I will try and let the people here (but certainly Kingwa) know how it sounds from the start. But to get an impression of the completely burned-in product will take time. Moreover, there's has been so much talk of long burn-in times for Audio-Gd products now (both the gear in general and the OPA's) that no-one here will even trust an early review._

 

I guess I'll wait and see after the Chinese New Year holidays, after which audio-gd would have picked up a bit of steam in building and changing... can't wait!


----------



## les_garten

Hello,
 Well I've tried to avoid commenting on Burn-in statements made in this thread. I had been doing well till the couple posts last few days. Everyone knows I LOVE a good discussion so here goes.

 I believe there is no substitute for hands on experience, so when someone says they experience something, and they have a track record with a lot of gear, what they say garners some weight.

 I believe that spkr drivers are mechanical objects and that they loosen up and wear in over time as any mechanical device is want to do. Martin-Logan advise you how to break in their ESL panels when you buy their spkrs. So Phone break-in, I am SURE occurs.

 I also believe it is possible for Caps to mature and "form". They are electrical devices that have mechanical components that age and mature and go bad over time. I "think" they may take "some" time to stabilize initially.

 Molecules in Copper connectors, Hmmmm, don't believe that one. I understand electrons jump and move, I just don't believe I can come in and turn your IC or Spkr wires backwards overnight (unbeknown to you) and it will cause you to have a mental break down because all your Molecules and SQ are all screwed up.

 I believe some of the Voodoo out there is borderline criminal, and that Audiophiles fall prey to Miss Cleo, Clairvoyant, Psychic Pitches and should be ashamed of themselves. I have the greatest potion for your audio system, *"CALL ME NOW" * (said in my best Jamaican accent).

 Now here's the Kicker. If you have a system(Solid State) that is "noticeably" changing over months and months. My assessment would be something is screwed up here and when is this thing going to burn up one day! All due respects to Tyson and his Audio-gd experience, but I'm not getting this one, and that Audio-gd gear has this HUGE break-in time unlike everything else out there. If I had something like that, and I thought it was the equipment that was doing it, It would worry me, but that's just me and how I roll!

 When I get gear, I let it run for two weeks 24 hours a day, and don't even listen to it that much. Then listen to it. I do this for a few reasons, first to burn in, and second to cause any failures to get on with failing. If something is going to go bad, let's get on with the process. For SS gear, I don't usually ever turn it off. Tube gear gets turned off when not in use.


----------



## haloxt

The opamps went through a period of burn-in before majkel even received it so maybe the real question is whether anyone can second his opinion about the AD797BRZ?


----------



## Drosera

Oh dear, I'm afraid this will turn into the burn-in thread! Let the wars begin!

 I basically agree with you Les, I find mechanical burn-in most believable with speakers and headphones because of the actual moving parts. Although, as far as I know, no one has yet succeeded in measuring a real change in frequency response.

 My main argument in favour of this being mainly a psychological phenomenon is: Why haven't I come across a _single report_ of burn-in where the developments were _not_ seen as improvements? For me that's the strongest possible evidence that usually the equipment is actually burning _you_ in.

 But I find it a waste to wear out my equipment by letting it play just to burn-in, without me listening to it. No matter whether it's the product changing or my perception of it, I like listening to the process continuously.
 Fortunately, I'm still in the situation that I have a lot of listening time. (Don't know how long that will last though.)


----------



## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read your excellent review. But I also read Pricklely Peete's commentary in which he said he had compared extensively used Audio-Gd OPA's with recently bought versions and found very clear differences._

 

It's still no evidence. The confirmation comes when both chips, after long mileage start to sound the same. If it never happens then all Peete observed was they were different sounding pieces due to parts tolerance, soldering repeatedness, etc. 

 Regarding the AD797BRZ, I focused on the OPA211ID pair again after some further DAC mods and man, this one is even better now - richer tone, more correct instrument image without exagerration which makes it kind of less spatial but probably truer. However the review remains completely valid.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's still no evidence. The confirmation comes when both chips, after long mileage start to sound the same. If it never happens then all Peete observed was they were different sounding pieces due to parts tolerance, soldering repeatedness, etc._

 

True, but there's a serious lack of evidence either way. And it's all so bloody subjective. One man's night and day difference might be undetectable to someone else. The only way to really prove anything would be to measure the output and see if it changes over time.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Regarding the AD797BRZ, I focused on the OPA211ID pair again after some further DAC mods and man, this one is even better now - richer tone, more correct instrument image without exagerration which makes it kind of less spatial but probably truer. However the review remains completely valid._

 

Well, you're certainly making me curious. I'm already looking forward to trying out some other op-amps in the future. Lovely, the solid-state equivalent of tube-rolling.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My main argument in favour of this being mainly a psychological phenomenon is: Why haven't I come across a single report of burn-in where the developments were not seen as improvements? For me that's the strongest possible evidence that usually the equipment is actually burning you in._

 

They recently deleted a lot of pages on the "There's something about ultrasone" thread so I don't know if it's still there, but many people said the sound goes downhill and back to normal during the burn-in process then bass gets tight. Right now I'm at like 350 hours on my HFI-2200 and I noticed it goes downhill and then bass tighten too. I personally miss how the cans did bass when I first got it compared to now.. but that may have something to do with possibly damaging the cans at ~300 hours (sound card software had fake digital output volume control! -_-). Not sure if I damaged my headphones, but if not, I would definitely prefer the HFI-2200's new than at 350 hours.


----------



## majkel

Please don't mix headphones burn-in which is mechanical for the most part with the electrical devices burn-in which is mostly all about capacitors getting completely formed. I observed that electrolytic capacitors improve after several hours but the way to accelerate this process is to repeat several times their charge/discharge cycle. For instance, make a couple of short breaks in keeping the equipment turned on. 

 Sure there is kind of tube rolling equivalent for the op-amp sockets. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But all I care is transparency and completness, no special effect, so I don't roll parts for that purpose.


----------



## Tyson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 My main argument in favour of this being mainly a psychological phenomenon is: Why haven't I come across a single report of burn-in where the developments were not seen as improvements? For me that's the strongest possible evidence that usually the equipment is actually burning you in._

 

I've had things burn in and not be an improvement (for me). For example, I have a set of EL34's in my VTL amp now that started off very nicely rich and warm sounding, and changed to be more detailed and analytical over time. IMO, definitely not an improvement. Also, one of my headphone amps went from "just a touch warm" to "very warm" sounding, a bit too warm, actually, so I don't listen to it as much anymore. Another headphone amp went from hyper-analytical tonally, which smoothed out over time, but in parallel it became hyper-dynamic, which IMO is a move sideways, not an improvement.


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




 My main argument in favour of this being mainly a psychological phenomenon is: Why haven't I come across a single report of burn-in where the developments were not seen as improvements? For me that's the strongest possible evidence that usually the equipment is actually burning you in._

 

Agree completely. I think most of the burn-in reported here is due to the listener's ears acclimating to the gear, rather than significant changes in the gear's sound signature. Why does 99% of burn-in result in improvement of sound signature? That's just statistically impossible.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agree completely. I think most of the burn-in reported here is due to the listener's ears acclimating to the gear, rather than significant changes in the gear's sound signature. Why does 99% of burn-in result in improvement of sound signature? That's just statistically impossible._

 

In my experience with Audio-gd gear, the improvements I noticed after burn-in were not due to listening acclimating. Usually what I would listen to my headphones for no more than a few minutes every day until the sound seems to settle down. 
 Also, I do comparisons with my other gear in order to get a clear reference. For instance, the DAC-100 had a lot less treble energy before burn-in than the EMU 0404 USB while the highs of the DAC-100 are subjectively more extended than the 0404 after burn-in. It also improved in refinement.
 I don't think that burn-in is a specific issue to Audio-gd. Even on high-end gear ($10,000+), reviewers have noticed improvements in the sound after burn-in. Those reviewers usually have a lot of comparable products which helps keeping sound references.


----------



## Alai

Either way, I think it's just another preferences thing. No one has actually done a scientific study on burn-in so there's no strong evidence for or against it. So stop talking about it because you won't convince anyone one way or another. If it seems to make a difference to you, then continue doing it. Otherwise, don't.

 Just don't make a religion out of it and start knocking on other people's doors to let them know how much of a savior burn-in is or how much of a lie burn-in is.


----------



## dBs

Ok, Ill stoke the fire. Im about to graduate with a degree in electrical engineering. Moreover, my focus has been in analog and digital electronics. Just as capacitors have "mechanical" (though more like chemical) components that can be burned in, so too do transistors.

 A transistor (used extensively in amplifiers) is basically composed of 4 parts, a source, a drain, a gate, and the semiconductor substrate. The source and the drain are like they sound, one supplies a current, the other receives and continues the current. The gate acts like a stop light and allows the current to flow through (while amplifying it depending on the nature of how the transistor is configured).

 This action is created by applying a voltage to the gate. This draws electrons from the semiconductor to literally bridge the gap between the source and drain so allow current flow. So just like a capacitor charges and stores energy, so does the gate element in a transistor.

 When it comes to analog signals, the transistor is driven in the middle of the linear region (the sharp incline in the graph bellow). The flat on the bottom is cut off (when no current flows), the top is saturation (name varies if its a BJT transistor or FET), where all current flows freely. The nature and shape of this graph varies by temperature, AGE, and quantum mechanical factors. So just as a capacitor can age, so to does a transistor because of the nature of the physical design of the transistor (length, width, material, etc), and the material of the semiconductor (Si, SiO2, etc).






 A good, math centric, resource:
http://users.tpg.com.au/users/ldbutl...sisVoltAmp.htm


----------



## Doorknob

Man, do I feel really idiotic.

 I have been anticipating on this unit for a long time, and happen to get one part of my address wrong. The best part is I didn't realize it until now.

 It happens so that I've typed the 4th digit of the zipcode incorrectly when I mailed I wanted to buy the unit from Kingwa. Everything else is correct except for that little number, which probably caused the To address in my tracking number to be really messed up (i.e. having 99999 as a zipcode and first line of address not in there).

 Thankfully when putting in the full address in Google maps with the wrong digit, it still points to my home. Right now I am seriously worried about the fate of the unit. Should I be worried? I'm completely new to buying stuff online by myself.


----------



## sandchak

I don't think it will be a problem if the courier has your telephone number, it happened with me in the past, they called me up and I had to go and collect it (had to show an ID)..


----------



## mbd2884

Its official, DHL has the worst online tracking of anyone. Then USPS.


----------



## sandchak

does it mean you received your Compass???..


----------



## haloxt

No, he's just dissing DHL ^^


----------



## sandchak

Oh, I thought he received the Compass, while the tracking says its still on transit - one reason why he could have said how bad the DHL tracking service is..


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah DHL has by far the worst Online Tracking, but USPS is a close second. Why can't they all be as good as FedEx?

 Yeah I ran into address problem also with Audio-dg. I initially emailed him my home phone and address. Then thought they might need a signature, so then asked him to change it to my work phone, and work address.

 Well now its heading to my home address, poops. Well next time I will think hard before deciding which address to put for shipping to avoid any confusion.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Mine arrived at Heathrow(London) at 8.36am today. It left there at 11.14am. DHL knocked on my door at 13.40pm... I couldn't believe it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



























 Unfortunately, they were here to collect an alloy wheel for someone! I'm fairly confident it'll arrive Monday, possibly Tuesday. And you think DHL tracking is bad for you - try out the UK site:-
DHL | United Kingdom | Tracking

 It doesn't even list the destination... and it doesn't accurately list each stage, like the Yank site. Most of it is there, but your site lists updates that aren't listed on my UK site...

 As for impressions, I'm happy to post my initial thoughts, but it'll be very short, and a direct comparison to a Zero with HDAM and some capacitors swapped for better components. It is not a full FrankenZero, but is noticeably better than the standard unit.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, Ill stoke the fire. Im about to graduate with a degree in electrical engineering. Moreover, my focus has been in analog and digital electronics. Just as capacitors have "mechanical" (though more like chemical) components that can be burned in, so too do transistors.


 <<<<< SNIP SNIP SNIP >>>>>>>>>>>>>






 A good, math centric, resource:
THE TRANSISTOR AS A VOLTAGE AMPLIFIER_

 


 Thanx for that about the Transisters?

 So with a good Background in EE, what do you think of the various Burn In Claims/Observations RE how long it will take and whether these things are 

 1) Measurable?
 2) Audible?

 I saw an Oscilloscope analysis of some Caps over on the DIY audio forum that showed Cap break in pretty good.

 However, it would seem to me you would see a relatively rapid change in "character" and then a very long relatively flat plateau in "character" before "AGE" would show significant changes. Or that the AGE changes would be a slow drift.

 I would think if I had a change on relatively new gear that took place constantly over 6-12 months, I would look at Temperature and seasonal changes as much as anything else. 

 Your thoughts?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 <<SNIP>>

 As for impressions, I'm happy to post my initial thoughts, but it'll be very short, and a direct comparison to a Zero with HDAM and some capacitors swapped for better components. It is not a full FrankenZero, but is noticeably better than the standard unit.

 ~Phewl._

 

Damn shame about not getting it for the weekend.


----------



## Doorknob

My worries are over as of now. It's here!

 This thing looks strikingly beautiful and definitely looks well made outside the box. The space on the front and the back has been nicely utilized. Compared to my former Zero, this thing is big. 

 Now I just need to find a space to put this one heck of a monster.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My worries are over as of now. It's here!

 This thing looks strikingly beautiful and definitely looks well made outside the box. The space on the front and the back has been nicely utilized. Compared to my former Zero, this thing is big. 

 Now I just need to find a space to put this one heck of a monster._

 

When you shoot the Obligatory PIX 

 Could you put it side by side with the Zero?



 .


----------



## Doorknob

I was going to hook it up first, but pics are pics.

 I don't know how you'd take the cover off of Compass though. On the side note, this optical cable looks really edible.


----------



## K3cT

Very nice. I can't wait to hear the initial impressions.

 OTOH, I've been getting offers for my Zero. It will be nice to fund the Compass if it sounds as good as it's expected.


----------



## Doorknob

Pictures are taken but until my folks come back, I don't know of a way to hook the camera up to the computer. Don't know where they hide their stuff. I'll post again when I do get those pics uploaded.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice. I can't wait to hear the initial impressions.

 OTOH, I've been getting offers for my Zero. It will be nice to fund the Compass if it sounds as good as it's expected._

 


 Ding! I think you have a winner there!

 Same thing for me. I think I'll Finish the FrankenMod, listen for a while, and then off it goes to the FS Forum.


----------



## K3cT

There's always a chance that a stacked Zero is better than the Compass though.


----------



## oneway23

Very much looking forward to initial impressions...Space will be made on a desk if all goes well. My only hope is that the expectations haven't spiraled out of control. Initial impressions are anticipated, but it's going to be a good month before everyone's impressions can be compared/contrasted/cross-referenced.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's always a chance that a stacked Zero is better than the Compass though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 SQ, still an unknown here. I'll bet ya dollars to doughnutz the Compass blows away the Zero in reliability and quality of build though.


 .


----------



## K3cT

Heh, it sort of reminds us of the Westone 3 thing eh? It was supposed to be the second coming of Christ or something but it turns out to be just another high-end IEM: very good but not perfect.


----------



## Doorknob

I haven't owned many audiophile gears (Had a Zero which broke, A900, modded HA-RX 900, and a Cowon A2) so my impression may not be accurate but I'll write a few sentences from what I hear. All were done using the modded HA-RX 900 (which I highly prefer over the more expensive A900).

 Right as soon as I hooked the Compass to my computer via optical, I went to foobar, made sure every effect was off other then ASIO and then finally turned on Guthrie Govan - Wonderful Slippery Thing. You can clearly hear each and every instrument without them being muddled. Highs, mids, lows, they all seem to flow very easily. Also the detail is excellent as I've heard things I've never have before.

 I might post more impressions in the Compass test group as time goes by. For now, I'm very happy with what I have.


----------



## mbd2884

Did you have to sign for it?

 If not maybe its waiting for me at home or I won't have to worry about it on Monday.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My worries are over as of now. It's here!

 This thing looks strikingly beautiful and definitely looks well made outside the box. The space on the front and the back has been nicely utilized. Compared to my former Zero, this thing is big. 

 Now I just need to find a space to put this one heck of a monster._


----------



## mbd2884

I'm not looking for Compass to be the second coming, but the best bang for the buck. Something that is affordable but still high quality, that's all I'm looking for.

 And the fact that Kingwa tried to make it as neutral as possible is even better, as I don't like anything that colors the recording.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heh, it sort of reminds us of the Westone 3 thing eh? It was supposed to be the second coming of Christ or something but it turns out to be just another high-end IEM: very good but not perfect._


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tyson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had things burn in and not be an improvement (for me). For example, I have a set of EL34's in my VTL amp now that started off very nicely rich and warm sounding, and changed to be more detailed and analytical over time. IMO, definitely not an improvement. Also, one of my headphone amps went from "just a touch warm" to "very warm" sounding, a bit too warm, actually, so I don't listen to it as much anymore. Another headphone amp went from hyper-analytical tonally, which smoothed out over time, but in parallel it became hyper-dynamic, which IMO is a move sideways, not an improvement._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They recently deleted a lot of pages on the "There's something about ultrasone" thread so I don't know if it's still there, but many people said the sound goes downhill and back to normal during the burn-in process then bass gets tight. Right now I'm at like 350 hours on my HFI-2200 and I noticed it goes downhill and then bass tighten too. I personally miss how the cans did bass when I first got it compared to now.. but that may have something to do with possibly damaging the cans at ~300 hours (sound card software had fake digital output volume control! -_-). Not sure if I damaged my headphones, but if not, I would definitely prefer the HFI-2200's new than at 350 hours._

 

Wow, good of me to mention that I didn't come across any negative effects of burn-in. Rightaway, here are two examples. Can I assume that in both cases the effect was actually going in the direction of the intended sound signature (which may or may not be liked)? And by the way, how should I interpret 'tightened bass'? Usually tightening of the bass is used to describe a more punchy and focussed bass, which is considered a good thing by most people. Do you mean to say that the bass disappeared?

 Anyhoo, the Compasses are arriving, so it seems that discussion will focus there. (Well, we can focus on Compass burn-in of course. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 On that note, my Compass has landed! Well, it's in Amsterdam, by the time it has been through customs and found its way to my doorstep it will probably be Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## Doorknob

Good news: I'll be able to bring this machine to CanJam 2009 which by then Compass will have mostly to fully burned in

 Bad news: Yes it appears you need to sign for the package.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, Ill stoke the fire. Im about to graduate with a degree in electrical engineering. Moreover, my focus has been in analog and digital electronics. Just as capacitors have "mechanical" (though more like chemical) components that can be burned in, so too do transistors.

 The nature and shape of this graph varies by temperature, AGE, and quantum mechanical factors. So just as a capacitor can age, so to does a transistor because of the nature of the physical design of the transistor (length, width, material, etc), and the material of the semiconductor (Si, SiO2, etc)._

 

Thanks, that's fascinating stuff. I really should read up on the details of this, I know far too little about such technology. (While my father is actually a very experienced electrical engineer.)
 But transistors age?? Hm, what does that mean for all those fans of vintage 1970's solid state amps? I know capacitors can be rescued, but is there any way to rejuvenate transistors? Probably not.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't owned many audiophile gears (Had a Zero which broke, A900, modded HA-RX 900, and a Cowon A2) so my impression may not be accurate but I'll write a few sentences from what I hear. All were done using the modded HA-RX 900 (which I highly prefer over the more expensive A900).

 Right as soon as I hooked the Compass to my computer via optical, I went to foobar, made sure every effect was off other then ASIO and then finally turned on Guthrie Govan - Wonderful Slippery Thing. You can clearly hear each and every instrument without them being muddled. Highs, mids, lows, they all seem to flow very easily. Also the detail is excellent as I've heard things I've never have before.

 I might post more impressions in the Compass test group as time goes by. For now, I'm very happy with what I have._

 

Very nice, I'm glad that you enjoy them. Do you find that it's a significant improvement over your Zero?


----------



## Doorknob

I wouldn't know for sure (And can't since the unit is broke anyway) right now. My Zero had went through various changes, including HDAM replacement and the FrankenMod. 

 If my memory serves right, Compass right off the bat seems to sound much like a fully burned in Zero only with slightly lower decibels on the higher frequency ranges which starts somewhere from the upper mids and seems to lack slight amount of soundstage. 

 FrankenZero, I wouldn't know for sure, but the only fondest memory I had was that I was playing air guitar while listening to some of Takajii's works before the thing suddenly died. Shoot, and I was having such a great time.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, good of me to mention that I didn't come across any negative effects of burn-in. Rightaway, here are two examples. Can I assume that in both cases the effect was actually going in the direction of the intended sound signature (which may or may not be liked)? And by the way, how should I interpret 'tightened bass'? Usually tightening of the bass is used to describe a more punchy and focussed bass, which is considered a good thing by most people. Do you mean to say that the bass disappeared?

 Anyhoo, the Compasses are arriving, so it seems that discussion will focus there. (Well, we can focus on Compass burn-in of course. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 On that note, my Compass has landed! Well, it's in Amsterdam, by the time it has been through customs and found its way to my doorstep it will probably be Monday or Tuesday._

 

Ya, that's what I mean by tighter bass, I like diffused bass ^^ it goes good with the Ultrasone S-logic. But if you say what we say burn-in is is the progression to its intended sound signature, your hypothetical negative burn-in scenario becomes pointless because you can just call me a dummy for wishing my headphones could remain virgin forever and the burn-in question will be still left unanswered. Let's have a moratorium on burn-in debates until I finish my astrological theory of the periodicity of sound quality, I'm almost done charting the occurrence of sunspots in relation to swapping opamps.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice, I'm glad that you enjoy them. Do you find that it's a significant improvement over your Zero?_

 

Heh, let me partially answer this question. 

 He won't know for certain, because Audio Memory is very short lived and...


 wait for it.....


 wait for it...



 His Zero is Broken!!!


 Yeah!!!, Yeah!! And the Fans go Wild!!!!

 .


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't know for sure (And can't since the unit is broke anyway) right now. My Zero had went through various changes, including HDAM replacement and the FrankenMod. 

 If my memory serves right, Compass right off the bat seems to sound much like a fully burned in Zero only with slightly lower decibels on the higher frequency ranges which starts somewhere from the upper mids and seems to lack slight amount of soundstage. 

 FrankenZero, I wouldn't know for sure, but the only fondest memory I had was that I was playing air guitar while listening to some of Takajii's works before the thing suddenly died. Shoot, and I was having such a great time._

 

Aw, shucks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But thanks anyway. Things may change though because it seems that audio-gd gears take ages to burn-in. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* 
_Heh, let me partially answer this question.

 He won't know for certain, because Audio Memory is very short lived and...


 wait for it.....


 wait for it...



 His Zero is Broken!!!


 Yeah!!!, Yeah!! And the Fans go Wild!!!!_

 

Aren't you a happy camper? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I'll have to find out the hard way eh? I have to wait until the end of Chinese New Year though because I also celebrate it around here and it's even a bigger holiday over there in China.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The way I look at it...18 of us have the perfect opportunity to observe the possibility of "break in" first hand...the results of which (will have no right or wrong impression IMO) may be valuable in as much as the knowledge gained will put in perspective the long term commitment it takes to observe any such changes and knowing that is does take some considerable time....the self discipline to follow through with it even if you feel enough time has passed. It's takes considerable effort to note these changes once let alone a number of times back to back ad nauseum.....believing me or my experiences matters not when you come down to it rather do you trust the person giving this advice in the first place ?

 Who has put in the time, what have they to gain from those conclusions ? These are questions to be asked and answered honestly and truthfully. IMO a long burn in period isn't a positive.....so nothing is gained by declaring such a thing, the manufacturer gains nothing and the person observing these changes gains nothing.....

 I repeat...here we have a unique opportunity with a large "test group" of people all starting out with the same DAC/Amp at the approximate same time....to me this opportunity should not be passed up and will I will now ask those that can keep an open mind to document their findings and keep tabs on any changes (if any) over a long period of time. At the end we can compare findings and let those chips fall where they may.

 I'm up for that challenge...who else is willing to participate ? Speak up please in this thread and we will co-ordinate the effort via PM or email once we have at least 10 participants or more...hell, all of you would be great.

 Peete.


----------



## Tb311

This is amp is sounding very promising. So how do I get one for the promo price?


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanx for that about the Transisters?

 So with a good Background in EE, what do you think of the various Burn In Claims/Observations RE how long it will take and whether these things are 

 1) Measurable?
 2) Audible?

 I saw an Oscilloscope analysis of some Caps over on the DIY audio forum that showed Cap break in pretty good.

 However, it would seem to me you would see a relatively rapid change in "character" and then a very long relatively flat plateau in "character" before "AGE" would show significant changes. Or that the AGE changes would be a slow drift.

 I would think if I had a change on relatively new gear that took place constantly over 6-12 months, I would look at Temperature and seasonal changes as much as anything else. 

 Your thoughts?_

 

To be honest, I dont know for certain how this would be. I suspect that "burn in" would be most effected by the materials involved than the transistor length or width. This is more to do with the chemical properties of the materials involved than anything else.

 As I mentioned before, electrons are attracted to the gate to act as a bridge for the current from the source to the drain. If the gate does not have a charge, then the electrons re-disperse throughout the substrate and the bridge dissolves. What can happen over time is that these electrons form an unusually high concentration in the area of the gate so that a current forms.

 If I remember correctly, at least in the cases of LEDs and laser diodes, the graph I showed has less and less amplification (the linear region gets shorter and shorter in length) and the knee voltage (the point at which the linear region begins) pushes further away (requires more voltage). This would make for less amplification.

 The nature of how these changes occur over time would vary by the chemical processes involved and the inherit chemical nature of the materials. How many valence electrons the materials have, the nature of the chemical bonding, how fast the electrons can move, and the pace of how fast these electrons lose their even dispersion to congregate at the gate when no gate charge is present.

 These sorts of things arent covered until you hit grad school classes, and even then, not by all colleges. I may not get a course in this. Generally though, these sorts of break downs take a long time to occur. These usually arent problems in amplifier purposes so much as digital purposes like in processors. Usually then the problem is quantum tunneling.

 I dunno if I made things more clear or just more confusing XD


----------



## Doorknob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The way I look at it...18 of us have the perfect opportunity to observe the possibility of "break in" first hand...the results of which (will have no right or wrong impression IMO) may be valuable in as much as the knowledge gained will put in perspective the long term commitment it takes to observe any such changes and knowing that is does take some considerable time....the self discipline to follow through with it even if you feel enough time has passed. It's takes considerable effort to note these changes once let alone a number of times back to back ad nauseum.....believing me or my experiences matters not when you come down to it rather do you trust the person giving this advice in the first place ?

 Who has put in the time, what have they to gain from those conclusions ? These are questions to be asked and answered honestly and truthfully. IMO a long burn in period isn't a positive.....so nothing is gained by declaring such a thing, the manufacturer gains nothing and the person observing these changes gains nothing.....

 I repeat...here we have a unique opportunity with a large "test group" of people all starting out with the same DAC/Amp at the approximate same time....to me this opportunity should not be passed up and will I will now ask those that can keep an open mind to document their findings and keep tabs on any changes (if any) over a long period of time. At the end we can compare findings and let those chips fall where they may.

 I'm up for that challenge...who else is willing to participate ? Speak up please in this thread and we will co-ordinate the effort via PM or email once we have at least 10 participants or more...hell, all of you would be great.

 Peete._

 

I thought we had a Compass test group thing for this? Nevertheless, I'm interested. It'll be interesting to see the progress of our Compass during the burn in timeline.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's always a chance that a stacked Zero is better than the Compass though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That would be a general overstatement. It is like thinking a heavily moded Mini minor can jump up a staircase. Lol.

 Here is my DAC 100. It has clocked in more than 300 hours. The DAC AH is yet to be rub off for DAC 100.


----------



## AudioPhewl

WTH is a stacked Zero, anyway? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## csroc

Nothing showed up for me today


----------



## haloxt

I know where Santa lives but I have no idea where DHL's hub is for customer pick-up. I guess I have no choice but to wait for Monday. DHL really should work on the website lol.


----------



## Doorknob

Finally some pics of the newly arrived Compass.

http://i41.tinypic.com/6h82mp.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2h6gal3.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/11tndvm.jpg


----------



## oneway23

Great pictures Doorknob, thanks! It's certainly larger in the depth department than I had imagined, but it definitely looks well built.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought we had a Compass test group thing for this? Nevertheless, I'm interested. It'll be interesting to see the progress of our Compass during the burn in timeline._

 

Compass test group is for the SQ,features...impressions...general stuff...what I'm proposing is outside the scope of that...to see if "burn in" is myth or fact for audio-gd gear...it's takes time some dedication and some patience for this to work...when most people have lost interest in the test group (3 weeks time) the "burn in" trial will be 1/4 of the way done.....what it means is keeping accurate track of hours on your own unit as well as spending as much time as possible listening to it while those hours tick away...usually a min of 1 hour a day of true concentrated no distraction listening often times using the same test track for reference.....it's time consuming..takes effort and willpower to see it through. I've done it countless times now and will do it once again.....

 So far we have myself and 2 others.....3 of 18...need at least 6-10 to make the results worthwhile enough either bust the myth or call it fact.

 Come on fellow Head Fi'ers here's your chance to contribute...take the Pepsi challenge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

I think burn-in is irrefutable, the most direct test being to compare a burned-in audio gear with a brand new audio gear. You thought audiophile superstition was bad, just wait I'll go adapt I Ching divination to audio circuitry design while I wait for DHL to deliver.


----------



## Currawong

My compass arrived this morning at 9am (Japan time). Thankfully courier deliveries are almost all done by Sagawa, who are reliable. 

 The Compass is the same size as my C2C and came with a Moon HDAM installed. I also received an ST3 and 2 of Kingwa's power cables to test.

 First impressions so far are of a very smooth, but soft sound, even in "neutral". Switching to the Northstar as a source and using the Compass in "Super" mode the result is a bit brighter, but still quite soft-sounding, without any jumpers on. Using the Compass as a standalone DAC to my vintage Stax, it is quite soft too, even compared to my relatively soft-sounding Northstar.

 The HP amp section drives both my Denons and Senns well.

 The useful thing about having the ST3 here is that I can use the pre-amp out of the compass I asked for at the last minute to connect to the ST3 for burn-in, even if I'm not listening to music.

 I'll report back in a few days after I've put another 100 hours on it. I'll also probably switch to the Earth HDAM, try USB and take some pics.


----------



## direcow

so far we have 2 impressions, one with somewhat soft sound and the other with slightly less extension in the highs... 

 Curra, what do you mean by soft? As in lack of impact? Don't think it means volume...

 I'm not sure how burn in will affect it, but I'll hold on and wait a while. It sure looks good, but it's quite a bit larger than the zero.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My compass arrived this morning at 9am (Japan time). Thankfully courier deliveries are almost all done by Sagawa, who are reliable. 

 The Compass is the same size as my C2C and came with a Moon HDAM installed. I also received an ST3 and 2 of Kingwa's power cables to test.

 First impressions so far are of a very smooth, but soft sound, even in "neutral". Switching to the Northstar as a source and using the Compass in "Super" mode the result is a bit brighter, but still quite soft-sounding, without any jumpers on. Using the Compass as a standalone DAC to my vintage Stax, it is quite soft too, even compared to my relatively soft-sounding Northstar.

 The HP amp section drives both my Denons and Senns well.

 The useful thing about having the ST3 here is that I can use the pre-amp out of the compass I asked for at the last minute to connect to the ST3 for burn-in, even if I'm not listening to music.

 I'll report back in a few days after I've put another 100 hours on it. I'll also probably switch to the Earth HDAM, try USB and take some pics._

 



 Does it sound like the Moon in the Zero? The Moon is a soft OPA, correct?




 .


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so far we have 2 impressions, one with somewhat soft sound and the other with slightly less extension in the highs... 

 Curra, what do you mean by soft? As in lack of impact? Don't think it means volume...

 I'm not sure how burn in will affect it, but I'll hold on and wait a while. It sure looks good, but it's quite a bit larger than the zero._

 

I think that "a little less extension in the highs" is part of it, but it probably has something to do with the EQ between the upper bass and lower treble being a bit stronger and weaker respectively. I need to find some software I can use to measure frequency response to be sure. Some of it could be the Moon, the slightly recessed mids of which give the impression of greater soundstage to me. I think it's that both the DAC and HP amp are a bit soft, so together they both sound quite soft.

 It could also be that I've been using the C2C a lot recently, which has a strong treble. Again, I'd like to get some frequency response graphs to work out what I'm hearing though, not to mention not say any more until I've run the unit for a few more days.

 Pics:

Audio-gd Compass


----------



## sandchak

Nice pics, Curra, in fact very nice setup..

 As far as I recollect, you have all three HDAMS - Earth, Moon and SUN.

 When you start giving your impressions, maybe we can hear your thoughts on Compass with the SUN, although Kingwa, did not suggest that, maybe it will sound more brighter and forward (I think thats the character of SUN V2).

 Thanks


----------



## direcow

so with increased upper bass, and decreased lower treble, it's sound like the d5000 might not be a very good fit for it. Might have to play around with HDAMs, or maybe more burn in on the Moon.

 Can't wait to hear more!


----------



## Doorknob

Interesting. I felt that the cymbals on the drums were slightly on the weak side, with them being pushed further behind the rest of the instrument group. I'm not hearing a weaker frequency range in the midrange though, it sounds pretty good there.

 On the other note, how do you open up the top of the Compass. I have those six sided hexagon tools, but they're either too large or too little to fit those holes on the top. And it appears I happen to have 3 sets of those. Is there a way to open it?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. I felt that the cymbals on the drums were slightly on the weak side, with them being pushed further behind the rest of the instrument group. I'm not hearing a weaker frequency range in the midrange though, it sounds pretty good there.

 On the other note, how do you open up the top of the Compass. I have those six sided hexagon tools, but they're either too large or too little to fit those holes on the top. And it appears I happen to have 3 sets of those. Is there a way to open it?_

 



 There are a lot of Allen Keys, maybe you have inch size and they are metric?


 .


----------



## Currawong

On my list is to remind Kingwa to send an allen key for opening the case if he's going to use those screws (which are a huge improvement over what he was using on his hand-made boxes).

 I just put in the Earth and the treble is a bit stronger, which balances everything better. Might have something to do with the Moon though, as the HDAMs change sound quite a bit during burn-in. One shouldn't take these comments for granted...it's only been a few hours since I received it and I'm on a random playlist.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The way I look at it...18 of us have the perfect opportunity to observe the possibility of "break in" first hand...the results of which (will have no right or wrong impression IMO) may be valuable in as much as the knowledge gained will put in perspective the long term commitment it takes to observe any such changes and knowing that is does take some considerable time....the self discipline to follow through with it even if you feel enough time has passed. It's takes considerable effort to note these changes once let alone a number of times back to back ad nauseum.....believing me or my experiences matters not when you come down to it rather do you trust the person giving this advice in the first place ?

 Who has put in the time, what have they to gain from those conclusions ? These are questions to be asked and answered honestly and truthfully. IMO a long burn in period isn't a positive.....so nothing is gained by declaring such a thing, the manufacturer gains nothing and the person observing these changes gains nothing.....

 I repeat...here we have a unique opportunity with a large "test group" of people all starting out with the same DAC/Amp at the approximate same time....to me this opportunity should not be passed up and will I will now ask those that can keep an open mind to document their findings and keep tabs on any changes (if any) over a long period of time. At the end we can compare findings and let those chips fall where they may.

 I'm up for that challenge...who else is willing to participate ? Speak up please in this thread and we will co-ordinate the effort via PM or email once we have at least 10 participants or more...hell, all of you would be great.

 Peete._

 

Well, you can sign me up. If only because I was already planning on logging the changes I heard anyways.

 What I fail to see is what this will actually prove about burn-in. I mean, I presume none of us have two units of the Compass, where they then can leave one unused to later compare it with a fully burned in unit. Without such a control, we are logging the burn-in process (interesting enough in itself), but we won't ever know what we're describing, because we still can't really differentiate between actual changes in sound signature and changes in _perceived_ sound signature.
 Sure, I suppose something could be gleaned from similarities in the different burn-in reports, but even those are not really reliable. After all, we are similar organisms getting used to the same product. Moreover, this forum has a habit of 'manufacturing opinions'. I presume we will be sharing some of our findings during burn-in on this forum. Once someone reports a certain experience others will start to hear it too. That's just the kind of animals we are.

 Finally, I do actually think there is an advantage for a manufacturer to claim long burn-in times for their equipment. This will be useful if a manufacturer is aware that the sound signature of his equipment will usually take some getting used to. It's easier to sell this particular fact under the guise of a burn-in claim then it is to say to your customer: "Sorry, it might take you a long time to get used to my product."


----------



## Taikero

I've always wondered why burn in skeptics don't ever compare a new headphone to a sufficiently burnt in headphone (same goes for other pieces of hardware). There's always those people who just won't hear it (for whatever reason, ear damage or otherwise), but there's no doubt in my mind burn in is something you have to live with when buying headphone-related equipment.

 Even if you do "prove" it, there will always be a few (or many) skeptics out there. Then again, a lot of us think we have golden ears too.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That would be a general overstatement. It is like thinking a heavily moded Mini minor can jump up a staircase. Lol.

 Here is my DAC 100. It has clocked in more than 300 hours. The DAC AH is yet to be rub off for DAC 100._

 

Hence the word 'chance'. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WTH is a stacked Zero, anyway? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

My apologies for being unclear. I was referring to a fully modded Zero. 

 Anyway, it's way bigger than my expectation.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya, that's what I mean by tighter bass, I like diffused bass ^^ it goes good with the Ultrasone S-logic. But if you say what we say burn-in is is the progression to its intended sound signature, your hypothetical negative burn-in scenario becomes pointless because you can just call me a dummy for wishing my headphones could remain virgin forever and the burn-in question will be still left unanswered. Let's have a moratorium on burn-in debates until I finish my astrological theory of the periodicity of sound quality, I'm almost done charting the occurrence of sunspots in relation to swapping opamps._

 

Well, don't take any of my remarks to mean that I have already developed my personal 'law of burn-in'. And I never will, the subject is way too complicated for a really well-defined definition. I may be sceptical, but I'm also very open-minded on the subject, not in the last place because my personal experience with listening to new HiFi equipment is pretty limited. I'm was just trying to signal a general trend and the general trend seems to be that burn-in is generally positive. (Note that this is actually compatible with both mechanical _and_ psychological burn-in. So it doesn't actually tell us anything either way.) My actual point with this was, that, if burn-in was entirely mechanical, there should be some significant exceptions to the 'positive'-rule. There should be some equipment, that, due to design flaws, will start to sound 'objectively' worse with time. And I wouldn't call the disappearance of diffuse bass a good example of the latter.

 I'm not in favour of a complete moratorium on burn-in debate. (Although I completely recognize the relative futility of such an undertaking.) As long as people will remain civil on the subject. The problem with such debates seems to be (amongst others) that to question burn-in is actually almost always also questioning the reliability of someone elses memory. This can apparently come across as very insulting, while it is, in my opinion, a very valid thing to do. I certainly don't have a very high opinion of the reliability of my own memory. It's excellent actually (thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but I will never claim that something is a fact just because I remember it that way.

 Anyways, keep us posted on the progress of your theory. I wonder what astrological influence Moon, Earth and Sun will have? And don't forget about those ley lines!


----------



## K3cT

Currawong, it will be nice if it's possible for you to provide a short comparison between the Compass and the Zero as I'm still on the fence with this one.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Taikero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've always wondered why burn in skeptics don't ever compare a new headphone to a sufficiently burnt in headphone (same goes for other pieces of hardware). There's always those people who just won't hear it (for whatever reason, ear damage or otherwise), but there's no doubt in my mind burn in is something you have to live with when buying headphone-related equipment.

 Even if you do "prove" it, there will always be a few (or many) skeptics out there. Then again, a lot of us think we have golden ears too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What surprises _me_ is that there so few reports which actually directly compare new versions with fully burned-in version of equipment. It would be really helpful to have far more of this info. From all my reading at head-fi.org I can only remember one instance where two pairs of HD-600 (or was it HD-650?) were compared at the moment of purchase and, subsequently, after using one of them for a prolonged time. As far as I remember, there were differences between the two, but they were very slight.

 I'm just trying to get some grip on the phenomenon.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On the other note, how do you open up the top of the Compass. I have those six sided hexagon tools, but they're either too large or too little to fit those holes on the top. And it appears I happen to have 3 sets of those. Is there a way to open it?_

 

Actually, you could also use a screw driver and a nose pliers if you have one, something like what I have attached..

 btw, what headphones are you using with the Compass?


----------



## Taikero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What surprises me is that there so few reports which actually directly compare new versions with fully burned-in version of equipment. It would be really helpful to have far more of this info. From all my reading at head-fi.org I can only remember one instance where two pairs of HD-600 (or was it HD-650?) were compared at the moment of purchase and, subsequently, after using one of them for a prolonged time. As far as I remember, there were differences between the two, but they were very slight.

 I'm just trying to get some grip on the phenomenon._

 

I do have a second pair of Future Sonics Atrio M5 (Dynamic driver IEMs) that is completely unopened in its original plastic wrap and box, but I haven't decided yet whether I'm keeping it for a spare or selling it, so I'm not quite willing to open it just to prove what I (personally) know from my various purchases.

 To be honest, I've even (once) heard what I would attribute as some kind of burn in difference with a balanced armature IEM, which most people believe is impossible. I can't say whether it was the balanced armature or just the cable settling in, but I listened to music the night before a long 4 hour car trip, and for the first time set the particular IEM up playing burn in files all night.

 During the car trip I fired up my DAP with those IEMs and immediately noticed a very marked SQ improvement and better PRaT. Before this point I had only listened to straight music through this IEM, so I can't help but wonder if running pink noise/frequency sweeps helped balance something out inside the IEM or cable. I can't say for sure that it wasn't just me that changed, but ever since that point the IEM hasn't had the sound it had the night before that trip at all which was warmer with poorer instrument separation and an overall quite fuzzy, almost muffled sound.

 (In case you're curious, the IEM in question is the Klipsch Image X10. I have not experienced this phenomena with any other balanced armature IEM, granted the X10 has a "micro-balanced armature", which could have different properties than a standard balanced armature.)

 In any case, I feel burn in does matter, but there's a point with each piece of hardware where the gains taper off, some faster than others. Certain pieces of hardware I'm also more skeptical of burn in, like very short cables for instance (The differences in sonic quality and perceived burn in with these is likely more attributable to an adjustment by your ears, not a true change in the cable, IMO. Longer cables I can believe more due to the way signals can degrade and warp as a cable gets longer, even outside audio).


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Taikero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do have a second pair of Future Sonics Atrio M5 (Dynamic driver IEMs) that is completely unopened in its original plastic wrap and box, but I haven't decided yet whether I'm keeping it for a spare or selling it, so I'm not quite willing to open it just to prove what I (personally) know from my various purchases._

 

Thank you for those impressions. And no, please don't open those IEMs just to prove something, either in general or to me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm just surprised that there are so few proper comparisons made which would document burn-in in a reliable way, when there's so much debate on the subject through all the years of head-fi. Maybe someone should do a meta-study on the available information. (No, I'm not volunteering.)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Taikero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In any case, I feel burn in does matter, but there's a point with each piece of hardware where the gains taper off, some faster than others. Certain pieces of hardware I'm also more skeptical of burn in, like very short cables for instance (The differences in sonic quality and perceived burn in with these is likely more attributable to an adjustment by your ears, not a true change in the cable, IMO. Longer cables I can believe more due to the way signals can degrade and warp as a cable gets longer, even outside audio)._

 

Hm, I really fail to see how most cables could be influenced by the low voltages passed through them. In the case of power chords, yes, I'm willing to believe that 220V can alter the molecular structure somewhat. I've certainly seen how fast a short circuit can melt the copper of the wires. (Little household accidents.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) Although, if this effect would be significant to the way the power chord functions... 
 But interconnects and headphone cables? I wonder if anyone could show me the mechanism by which the signals going through them would have a significant effect on the structure of the conducting material?
 (I actually do realize that this is slightly contrary to the proper scientific approach. What actually should be done is establishing unequivocally that the phenomenon exists and only then try to find an explanation to fit the phenomenon.)


----------



## Drosera

And there's my Compass. Sitting in DHL storage, roughly 75 kilometers away from me. And nothing's gonna happen to it in the next few days.

 Grrrrr, I didn't know this could be so aggrevating.


----------



## sandchak

Doesn't DHL deliver on Saturdays?? at least out here they do, although only in the first half of the day..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Doesn't DHL deliver on Saturdays?? at least out here they do, although only in the first half of the day.._

 

I think around here they only do that on special request. (Meaning, the sender has to pay higher shipping costs.) Anyways, it has to go through customs first, and I doubt they're working today. (Would be nice though.)


----------



## sandchak

Well, you can give them a call and see, you never know what a few good words can do, although I must say if I was in your shoes I would have driven that 75kms and sitting on their heads!!.. but thats me!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, you can give them a call and see, you never know what a few good words can do, although I must say if I was in your shoes I would have driven that 75kms and sitting on their heads!!.. but thats me!_

 

Haha, I doubt that's going to do any good. We are talking about the international DHL hub for The Netherlands. My package is just one in probably thousands they're handling each day. I doubt that they will make an exception for me. And anyways, it would never have gotten to the driver in time for Saturday morning delivery. (Because for that, it will first have to go to a DHL distribution centre that's closer to my home.) Yes, it would be nice if DHL had proper 24/7 service.

 Oh well, just a few more days of being forced to listen to that horrible Corda Opera.


----------



## majkel

The only way to verify the burn-in process for the HDAMs goes as follows:

 1) Receive two brand fresh HDAMs of the same type
 2) Verify they both sound the same at the beginning. If not - the test will fail.
 3) Burn one in for a week or two, leave another untouched.
 4) Compare both after burn-in period.

 All other reports make no sense in terms of burning in _electronics_.


----------



## stevodotorg

Suggestion: maybe change the lettering on the amp (font) to something a little different?


----------



## Currawong

You guys are all champions at dragging this thread off topic, but I guess I can't blame you all waiting for your boxes to arrive.

 Burned-in vs. non-burned-in headphones has been done with AKG K701s where there's a huge difference. It's tricky as changing the position of headphones can change the sound.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currawong, it will be nice if it's possible for you to provide a short comparison between the Compass and the Zero as I'm still on the fence with this one._

 

I will. However, the Zero has had many hours of usage and the Compass not and in my experience, the hours make a difference. A quick listen has the non-burned in Compass bettering my heavily-used Zero with 3x HDAMs with more detail and better soundstage. 

 However, the purpose of having the Compass designed and made was so that people would have a better alternative than the Zero that wouldn't be badly assembled, die suddenly or fry your headphones. 

 Edit: The sound has opened up a bit now I've had it running for a few hours. I'm using one of Kingwa's power cables, so it could be that too.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys are all champions at dragging this thread off topic, but I guess I can't blame you all waiting for your boxes to arrive._

 

Well, guilty as charged. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But it shouldn't be a problem as long as things don't escalate. And burn-in will be a subject which will concern all 18 of us in the weeks to come.

 But if you feel this thread is derailing too much (now or in the future), you just have to say the word. As far as I'm concerned you do have some 'moderator authority' over this thread as unofficial godfather of the Compass project.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*snip* I need to find some software I can use to measure frequency response to be sure. _

 

Perhaps connect the output into line in of your computer then measure with Rightmark Audio Analyser?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Doesn't DHL deliver on Saturdays?? at least out here they do, although only in the first half of the day.._

 

They do that here in Australia too


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps connect the output into line in of your computer then measure with Rightmark Audio Analyser?_

 

Just what I was looking for!


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will. However, the Zero has had many hours of usage and the Compass not and in my experience, the hours make a difference. A quick listen has the non-burned in Compass bettering my heavily-used Zero with 3x HDAMs with more detail and better soundstage. 

 However, the purpose of having the Compass designed and made was so that people would have a better alternative than the Zero that wouldn't be badly assembled, die suddenly or fry your headphones. 

 Edit: The sound has opened up a bit now I've had it running for a few hours. I'm using one of Kingwa's power cables, so it could be that too._

 

I see. Do you experience the soft sound that Doorknob hears from his unit? The difference in power cable could be the reason but I don't plan to get it with the Compass in the first place though. It's stretching my budget a bit. 

 Does Kingwa's cable provide a significant improvement though over the stock one?


----------



## Currawong

I haven't tested the power cable yet. I want to use it for a while first. At the moment, I have one plugged into the Compass, and another into the Northstar.

 Also, Kingwa told me he has had a lot of feedback from people about the Compass sounding warm and soft. He thinks his fully-burned in Compass doesn't sound that way, so I plan to leave mine on for 4-5 days straight to give it another 100 hours at least before I write more about it.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stevodotorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Suggestion: maybe change the lettering on the amp (font) to something a little different? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think that will be addressed, the problem being, according to Kingwa, he had ordered (and has in stock) 100 pcs of Chassis to keep the promotional costing/pricing as low as possible, I do not think these changes would be implemented before he sells 100 Compass.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will. However, the Zero has had many hours of usage and the Compass not and in my experience, the hours make a difference. A quick listen has the non-burned in Compass bettering my heavily-used Zero with 3x HDAMs with more detail and better soundstage. 

 Edit: The sound has opened up a bit now I've had it running for a few hours. I'm using one of Kingwa's power cables, so it could be that too._

 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, Kingwa told me he has had a lot of feedback from people about the Compass sounding warm and soft. He thinks his fully-burned in Compass doesn't sound that way, so I plan to leave mine on for 4-5 days straight to give it another 100 hours at least before I write more about it._

 


 Sounds like I'm pretty much ordered! Feeling a little trigger happy, and I can't wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Good thing it's the Holidays though, which means Kingwa probably can't start sending out orders soon. A little more time to read for me. Pretty much a done deal though.

 Edit: Yep, no shipping till the 5th. What a long wait...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only way to verify the burn-in process for the HDAMs goes as follows:

 1) Receive two brand fresh HDAMs of the same type
 2) Verify they both sound the same at the beginning. If not - the test will fail.
 3) Burn one in for a week or two, leave another untouched.
 4) Compare both after burn-in period.

 All other reports make no sense in terms of burning in electronics._

 

Hi,
 Nice review you wrote up. So you noticed no huge difference from 20 hours burn in onward? I see where you said you would let them burn in a little longer and reassess.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only way to verify the burn-in process for the HDAMs goes as follows:

 1) Receive two brand fresh HDAMs of the same type
 2) Verify they both sound the same at the beginning. If not - the test will fail.
 3) Burn one in for a week or two, leave another untouched.
 4) Compare both after burn-in period.

 All other reports make no sense in terms of burning in electronics._

 

I have done this with zero and sun hdam (I have 3 sun and 1 earth), no difference (with hd 650) changing one of the two sun in the headamp section (150h+ vs 0h) I think that for electronics is only suggestion (imho), for headphone it's a complete different story (imho)...


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like I'm pretty much ordered! Feeling a little trigger happy, and I can't wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good thing it's the Holidays though, which means Kingwa probably can't start sending out orders soon. A little more time to read for me. Pretty much a done deal though.

 Edit: Yep, no shipping till the 5th. What a long wait..._

 

Indeed. It's the same situation with me too, friend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I'm looking forward to tomorrow's reunion dinner a little bit more at the moment though. BTW, I heard it's going to be a 2-weeks holiday in China.. Damn, I'm envious.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have done this with zero and sun hdam (I have 3 sun and 1 earth), no difference (with hd 650) changing one of the two sun in the headamp section (150h+ vs 0h) I think that for electronics is only suggestion (imho), for headphone it's a complete different story (imho)..._

 


 You're talking two different types of break ins, ehh? One is like putting a new door hinge on a door on your house. Out of the wrapper, the hinge might be a little tight, but as the door moves open and closed, it starts working "normal" in short order. The other type of break in(Electronic) can be shown to happen on a Oscilloscope, but not to the extent claimed, ie months and months.

 All due respect to Curra, there is no way to divest this thread from a break-in discussion. In the last 10 posts about the new Compasses and how they sound, how many referenced break-in? Your last post referenced Kingwa saying to Break in. If Break in does not exist, than the Compasses are "soft". If it does exist, they will "improve". Improve how much and for how long, hmmm, that's the debate isn't it!


----------



## sandchak

Any more Compasses received?? think mine is stuck in Heathrow at least till Monday !!


----------



## Doorknob

I personally believe that burn in is true based on my experiences with my newly bought Zero and a soundcard (for optical cable plugging in purposes). First time I hooked it up and heard it, I was hearing echoes everywhere (Even clicking with my mouse on things did that) with my A900 which was about a month older then Zero when I had received it. Next day the echoes were mostly gone and that happened to be one of my audio experiences which doesn't seize to puzzle me. Anyway, that's my personal experiences, and I won't discuss further about burn in and the such.

 As for the Compass, I'm willing to give it a week of burn in before giving the second impressions, another week for third, and so forth. It's my first time ever doing any kind of audio review, so I might as well as use that time to look up some more audio vocabs.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any more Compasses received?? think mine is stuck in Heathrow at least till Monday !!_

 

Heathrow?? That's a long long way from Georgia!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heathrow?? That's a long long way from Georgia!_

 

Yeah, it kind of takes a long route before reaching this place - HK - Germany - UK - Georgia, and since there is no flights from UK to this place on Saturday, it will take the Sunday evening flight and should reach me on Monday, thats always been the case.. well, I guess we will celebrate together!!


----------



## bjojoj

This thread is turning out to be extremely interesting to follow! Units arriving, initial impressions, discussion on the burn-in phenomenon. Beats any thriller known to mankind
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 While we're (you're) at it, how do you evaluate the sound character of audio gear? What I mean is that there is so much talk about warm, flat, neutral etc. but to be able to conclude that a unit is neutral you would have to know what the original sound is like and compare that with the "sound" coming out of the unit, right? Is this possible? I mean, you're probably used to the sound of your equipment and you've heard a number of other units as well and made comparisons, but how would you know which system or unit is more coloured and which is more true to the original recording? I always read as many reviews I can find when buying something, but when it comes to audio I feel most (if not all) reviews are pointless for me to read at least other than to avoid utter crap. Your thoughts?

 Sorry for poluting the thread but there is at least some relevance this time around.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any more Compasses received?? think mine is stuck in Heathrow at least till Monday !!_

 

Mine hit London, Heathrow, on the 23rd at 8.36am. It landed at the Birmingham facility 24th January, 7.15am. I'm hoping it'll hop through customs and be out for delivery Monday 26th, though I do think Tuesday 27th is looking likely.

 My views on burn-in... contradict much of those from members on here. I've heard the difference between capacitors in the signal path - burn in does happen here, IMO. But semiconductors - transistors, opamps, etc... I have never found any audible evidence of "burn-in". There is - really is - a difference to me between cold and hot equipment, but I am unable to find any difference between a opamp with 1000+ hours of use, and one fresh out of the packet(once both are up to temperature). I can also understand why there can be a difference between new and used with electromagnetic headphones.

 IMO, "burn-in" is a myth for the most part(aside from capacitors in the audio signal path). I do, however, firmly believe that it takes a long time for the human mind, and ears, to properly appreciate the sonic characteristics of a product. As one becomes more accustomed with the product in question, it becomes more familiar, and pleasing to the user. Familiarity plays a major part in being able to find the minor, hidden details with recordings.

 I'd love to be proven wrong, but I've never seen anything that can accurately or scientifically determine the effect on a repeat basis. All I see - on a repeated basis - is the comments of some individual users with a solitary piece of equipment and their memory of tonal reproduction several days, weeks or even months ago.

 Having been able to compare two Zero's next to each other - one with thousands of hours use, the other with a handful... when both units have the same capacitors installed in the signal path with lots of hours on them, there was absolutely no discernable difference between the two.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjojoj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This thread is turning out to be extremely interesting to follow! Units arriving, initial impressions, discussion on the burn-in phenomenon. Beats any thriller known to mankind
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 While we're (you're) at it, how do you evaluate the sound character of audio gear? What I mean is that there is so much talk about warm, flat, neutral etc. but to be able to conclude that a unit is neutral you would have to know what the original sound is like and compare that with the "sound" coming out of the unit, right? Is this possible? I mean, you're probably used to the sound of your equipment and you've heard a number of other units as well and made comparisons, but how would you know which system or unit is more coloured and which is more true to the original recording? I always read as many reviews I can find when buying something, but when it comes to audio I feel most (if not all) reviews are pointless for me to read at least other than to avoid utter crap. Your thoughts?

 Sorry for poluting the thread but there is at least some relevance this time around._

 

I think reviews have a large amount of both useful and useless information. You have to be able to accurately wade through the incredibly subjective parts to find what you want. Some things are pretty universally accepted and those are the things I look for. I also look for things like quality of build to make sure the product will stand up to the test of time. When people start describing cables or tubes with ridiculous words like "danceable" or thing of that nature, I tend to ignore them. 

 I also look at the gear people use prior to their upgrades. If someone has the same cans as me, I tend to weigh their opinions more. If someone using SR80's upgrades to SR325i and loves it, but someone who came from Sen HD555 doesn't like it, I would tend to give the SR80 guy more weight in my decision, because those are the cans I am currently using. Since audio is so opinionated and comparative, I might as well listen to someone who has similar tastes and comparisons. I will also trust people with lots of gear, because they have the ability to directly compare two products.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, it kind of takes a long route before reaching this place - HK - Germany - UK - Georgia, and since there is no flights from UK to this place on Saturday, it will take the Sunday evening flight and should reach me on Monday, thats always been the case.. well, I guess we will celebrate together!!_

 

Wow, that's quite a journey. That's goes some way to explain the rather high shipping costs to Eastern Europe. (Although I'm not really sure if Georgia would fall under Eastern Europe as a shipping zone.)
 As long as it gets there eventually, that's the main thing.


----------



## csroc

Mine appears to have made it to Ohio and was "processed" today. Hopefully it makes its way up here for Monday.


----------



## sennsay

Hmm, having just looked over the latter pages of this thread recently, there seems to be an awful lot of intellectualising and arguing to be right, and bugger all of allowing people of differing experience to just relate their experiences without it being judged. 
 A point to make here; if I remember rightly, Kingwa told me that he and the team run each unit in for 100 hours before sending it out, right? That's a pretty good start on the burn-in process. Those big Nover PS caps do take a while to form properly, my own a-gd power supply took well over the 200 hour mark to really settle down.

 For me personally, the burn-in process of ALL of my electronics here has been a fascinating journey; my HDAMs improved out of sight in gobsmacking ways at 50 hours plus and continued to do so more subtly at regular intervals, the PIOs took 50 hour steps that are repeatable (PP has spoken of this many times before and I've heard it myself with every single unit). 
 Both KHA I.5 and II amps changed dramatically on running in, same for the a-gd power supply and again as the bypass caps burned in. 
 For those among you who don't hear any change at all, good for you, you can just get on and enjoy your listening straight away and not bother about wondering if you might enjoy the experience any more as time goes by. 
 Easy really. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I've enjoyed my own journey thoroughly. It's about enjoying the music, when you come down to it - that _IS_ what you bought the gear for, right? - 'cos I sure as hell ain't going to spend $500NZD on a Compass just to critique it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjojoj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While we're (you're) at it, how do you evaluate the sound character of audio gear? What I mean is that there is so much talk about warm, flat, neutral etc. but to be able to conclude that a unit is neutral you would have to know what the original sound is like and compare that with the "sound" coming out of the unit, right? Is this possible?_

 

neutral sound is sometimes described as a cymbal sounding exactly like a cymbal. A person's memory of what a instrument should sound like can come from listening to a very good sound system but can also just come from the actual instrument being heard in real life. I agree with you though, I don't like phrases like warm, flat, neutral.. because my audio set-up doesn't sound like any of that, it just sounds like crap ^_^.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think that will be addressed, the problem being, according to Kingwa, he had ordered (and has in stock) 100 pcs of Chassis to keep the promotional costing/pricing as low as possible, I do not think these changes would be implemented before he sells 100 Compass._

 

Yeah I messaged him too and asked if something else could be used like Bitstream Vera Sans


----------



## bjojoj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think reviews have a large amount of both useful and useless information. You have to be able to accurately wade through the incredibly subjective parts to find what you want. Some things are pretty universally accepted and those are the things I look for. I also look for things like quality of build to make sure the product will stand up to the test of time. When people start describing cables or tubes with ridiculous words like "danceable" or thing of that nature, I tend to ignore them. 

 I also look at the gear people use prior to their upgrades. If someone has the same cans as me, I tend to weigh their opinions more. If someone using SR80's upgrades to SR325i and loves it, but someone who came from Sen HD555 doesn't like it, I would tend to give the SR80 guy more weight in my decision, because those are the cans I am currently using. Since audio is so opinionated and comparative, I might as well listen to someone who has similar tastes and comparisons. I will also trust people with lots of gear, because they have the ability to directly compare two products._

 

Agreed, but how would you go about finding neutral components (cd, dac, amp etc.) and what would be your reference? After all, neutrality can't be based on subjective listening, can it? 
 Would it be possible to compare the info on a cd with the signal coming out of a dac in some form of objective software analysis, using all parameters? But, how would we know that the signal stays unaffected on its way through to the analysis?
 Is it even worth the bother trying to find neutral gear?


----------



## bjojoj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_neutral sound is sometimes described as a cymbal sounding exactly like a cymbal. A person's memory of what a instrument should sound like can come from listening to a very good sound system but can also just come from the actual instrument being heard in real life. I agree with you though, I don't like phrases like warm, flat, neutral.. because my audio set-up doesn't sound like any of that, it just sounds like crap ^_^._

 

Great description, but just to make things difficult there are different-sounding cymbals, which makes it necessary to know what THIS cymbal sounds like and so on.
 I guess you have the intention of changing the sound of your set-up from crap to something more enjoyable then


----------



## bjojoj

Decided to start a new thread on the neutrality matter, as I don't want to rip this thread.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, having just looked over the latter pages of this thread recently, there seems to be an awful lot of intellectualising and arguing to be right, and bugger all of allowing people of differing experience to just relate their experiences without it being judged. 
 A point to make here; if I remember rightly, Kingwa told me that he and the team run each unit in for 100 hours before sending it out, right? That's a pretty good start on the burn-in process. Those big Nover PS caps do take a while to form properly, my own a-gd power supply took well over the 200 hour mark to really settle down.

 For me personally, the burn-in process of ALL of my electronics here has been a fascinating journey; my HDAMs improved out of sight in gobsmacking ways at 50 hours plus and continued to do so more subtly at regular intervals, the PIOs took 50 hour steps that are repeatable (PP has spoken of this many times before and I've heard it myself with every single unit). 
 Both KHA I.5 and II amps changed dramatically on running in, same for the a-gd power supply and again as the bypass caps burned in. 
 For those among you who don't hear any change at all, good for you, you can just get on and enjoy your listening straight away and not bother about wondering if you might enjoy the experience any more as time goes by. 
 Easy really. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I've enjoyed my own journey thoroughly. It's about enjoying the music, when you come down to it - that IS what you bought the gear for, right? - 'cos I sure as hell ain't going to spend $500NZD on a Compass just to critique it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man_

 



 My observation here is that if this subject was provable, it would have been proven. If it is as easy to hear as you say it is. It would be a walk in the park to prove. There would be no argument or speculation. It would be *trivial* to set up a test for this. I think you know what I am talking about here. Sounds like a CANJAM fun event to me!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I don't know about others but I base my findings of neutral on the real thing in real time....something that needs time and experience to develop over hundreds of exposures to all manner of instruments, brands size shape and playing styles...There is no coincidence between those with extensive reference calibration (as I like to call it) and their age or experience which is why those with this experience should have a little more credibility than those without it...

 Let's face it hi end playback is the never ending persiut to equal that of the live performance however flawed that line of thought may be given current technology....that being said that doesn't mean we can't continue to strive for such a thing.

 IMO most people try to affix a ref point to a moving target and that is the first mistake. Live events are the only true measure of neutrality even with other factors making that judgment difficult (which is why you need to have direct exposure to said instruments where most of the negative factors can either be controlled or eliminated entirely). Up close and personal mitigates a lot of these negative effects. SO I say go to as many live small venue shows as you can, all genres of music...build up that ref calibration in your heads...pretty soon you'll have a good handle on how things should actually sound and you'll not forget it...ever.

 How many shows is enough ? I don't know but I'm still adding to my total....(I've lost count actually....must be well over 1000 by now not counting rehearsals,studio time ,jamming around etc). It's also well noted that those with a predisposition to music and life long exposure to it use different parts of the brain when they listen or hear than others who only casually listen and play no instrument. A study was made of this using MRI , the results fascinating to me at least. The Professional musician is wired differently than the Layman who has no musical aptitude. What this ultimately means is yet to be postulated clearly AFAIK.



 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_pretty soon you'll have a good handle on how things should actually sound and you'll not forget it...ever._

 

What if my idea of neutral sound was developed listening to my mom's untuned piano? My dad's violin playing didn't help much either.


----------



## mbd2884

Yep, DHL site says mine finally reached Ohio also. Hope it reaches here also on Monday

 Curra did you have to sign for the Compass? Because that is difference of whether Compass will be waiting for me at home or I'll have drag my ass out to pick it up at one of their lame distribution sites.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine appears to have made it to Ohio and was "processed" today. Hopefully it makes its way up here for Monday._


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know about others but I base my findings of neutral on the real thing in real time....something that needs time and experience to develop over hundreds of exposures to all manner of instruments, brands size shape and playing styles...There is no coincidence between those with extensive reference calibration (as I like to call it) and their age or experience which is why those with this experience should have a little more credibility than those without it...

 Let's face it hi end playback is the never ending persiut to equal that of the live performance however flawed that line of thought may be given current technology....that being said that doesn't mean we can't continue to strive for such a thing.

 IMO most people try to affix a ref point to a moving target and that is the first mistake. Live events are the only true measure of neutrality even with other factors making that judgment difficult (which is why you need to have direct exposure to said instruments where most of the negative factors can either be controlled or eliminated entirely). Up close and personal mitigates a lot of these negative effects. SO I say go to as many live small venue shows as you can, all genres of music...build up that ref calibration in your heads...pretty soon you'll have a good handle on how things should actually sound and you'll not forget it...ever.

 How many shows is enough ? I don't know but I'm still adding to my total....(I've lost count actually....must be well over 1000 by now not counting rehearsals,studio time ,jamming around etc). It's also well noted that those with a predisposition to music and life long exposure to it use different parts of the brain when they listen or hear than others who only casually listen and play no instrument. A study was made of this using MRI , the results fascinating to me at least. The Professional musician is wired differently than the Layman who has no musical aptitude. What this ultimately means is yet to be postulated clearly AFAIK.



 Peete._

 


 Well put. 

 But he most Neutral and true presentation of a CD is done by holding it up to your ear and listening. Everything before it became a CD added color, and everything we do to listen to it adds color.

 How about the IC's and solder and connectors in the studio. The Spkr wires to the Near Fields used to master, the Model and Brand of monitors, what type of Mic's and Mic cables, the Processing done to the Mic profiles for the Vocals. The Variables are endless before the music even becomes a CD. And this has nothing whatsoever to do with Live performance. It's a studio. There's a guy or two in there making everything sound like they want it to sound.

 To even mention Neutrality or Live seems pointless.


----------



## Currawong

By neutrality I meant flat frequency response.

 A quick note: The sound is quite a bit different with the Compass warmed up. It is only a tiny bit rolled off in the high treble (possibly around 16kHz or so) which is my fault, as I thought that the C2C was slightly bright, so Kingwa adjusted the Compass accordingly.

 Otherwise, it's sounding very good now.

 I did try swapping a HDAM in which had 100+ hours on it, and there was a slight improvement.


----------



## csroc

So the Compass is designed to roll off the high frequencies a bit, or you just find it to sound less "bright" than the C2C?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What if my idea of neutral sound was developed listening to my mom's untuned piano? My dad's violin playing didn't help much either._

 

Obviously that's not a valid source....I'm talking pro level abilities...but as silly as your response may seem it's beneficial as a starting point in as much as you hear the base level SQ of the instrument despite the users inept attempts at mastery.

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Kingwa told me in an email that the C2C had a very wide frequency response, 1Hz to 100kHz. I was having an issue with sibilance and thought that maybe the C2C was a bit bright. I imagined that the Compass would be the same, with the "soft" options allowing that to be tamed. It seems he tamed the sound _and_ added a soft option, which was a bit much. Some of it probably has to do with my Denons, which I listen through a lot, as taming the bass in them made them a bit bright.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well put. 

 But he most Neutral and true presentation of a CD is done by holding it up to your ear and listening. Everything before it became a CD added color, and everything we do to listen to it adds color.

 How about the IC's and solder and connectors in the studio. The Spkr wires to the Near Fields used to master, the Model and Brand of monitors, what type of Mic's and Mic cables, the Processing done to the Mic profiles for the Vocals. The Variables are endless before the music even becomes a CD. And this has nothing whatsoever to do with Live performance. It's a studio. There's a guy or two in there making everything sound like they want it to sound.

 To even mention Neutrality or Live seems pointless._

 


 I disagree completely (all joking aside)......if you are five feet away from a string quartet in a small setting, no amplification...you are hearing the instruments as a direct source to your ears....there is no added coloration of artificial means...this a reference neutral moment and will give you a base experience SQ for each of those instruments you've witnessed that day.

 Don't think of Neutrality in the literal sense, think of it as starting point for getting the fundamental characteristics of the instrument being recorded onto the track as closely as possible to what it really sounds like live. 


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Interesting observations thus far Currawong. 

 This is going to be a long 36 hours till mine shows up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa told me in an email that the C2C had a very wide frequency response, 1Hz to 100kHz._

 

That seems like an outlandish claim.


----------



## sandchak

I might be wrong out here, but to me neutral is more to sounding natural, I have personally been playing piano and sax for the last 15 years and I can call it my serious hobby, not profession or professional. I presume anyone who is is used to playing any instrument does get accustomed to that sound more than what you hear through hifi gears.
 There are a lot of CDs or Lps which are basically mic to mic recording ( specially small ensemble) without mixing and too much mastering, I usually refer those when I want to hear how an equipment sounds, I find them as a good reference to judge the sound of hardware. Of course the best thing would be to have the exact setup as the recording studio where the source was recorded to know how exactly it sounded - even in that case, one cant be sure that it is the true sound as it goes through a lot of mixing and mastering.

 I don't know if it makes sense, but that how I do it.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa told me in an email that the C2C had a very wide frequency response, 1Hz to 100kHz. I was having an issue with sibilance and thought that maybe the C2C was a bit bright. I imagined that the Compass would be the same, with the "soft" options allowing that to be tamed. It seems he tamed the sound and added a soft option, which was a bit much. Some of it probably has to do with my Denons, which I listen through a lot, as taming the bass in them made them a bit bright._

 

Hmm that might do well with the JVC HP-M1000's since a couple of people noted sibilance issues. Although personally I don't mind it makes it more fun sounding

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I disagree completely (all joking aside)......if you are five feet away from a string quartet in a small setting, no amplification...you are hearing the instruments as a direct source to your ears....there is no added coloration of artificial means...this a reference neutral moment and will give you a base experience SQ for each of those instruments you've witnessed that day.
 Peete._

 

Agreed but imo depending on what you're listening to can change the apparent sound of an instrument, like the cello may sound more mellow if its playing a smooth bass line against a light melody whilst the viola may sound harsh if its playing high staccato etc etc etc. Which is why I guess its important to get exposure to many composers/artists and setups as you mentioned earlier

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I might be wrong out here, but to me neutral is more to sounding natural, I have personally been playing piano and sax for the last 15 years and I can call it my serious hobby, not profession or professional. I presume anyone who is is used to playing any instrument does get accustomed to that sound more than what you hear through hifi gears._

 

Ha no way I play the piano and sax as well, 15 and 9 years respectively, starting to learn the guitar now


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha no way I play the piano and sax as well, 15 and 9 years respectively, starting to learn the guitar now_

 

Well, its kind of strange, when someone plays an instrument for so long and does not know how that instrument sounds naturally.. but then that may be the case too, depends person to person.

 I mean its all about exposure, whether you are exposed much to live music or you are playing the instrument yourself..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I disagree completely (all joking aside)......if you are five feet away from a string quartet in a small setting, no amplification...you are hearing the instruments as a direct source to your ears....there is no added coloration of artificial means...this a reference neutral moment and will give you a base experience SQ for each of those instruments you've witnessed that day.

 Don't think of Neutrality in the literal sense, think of it as starting point for getting the fundamental characteristics of the instrument being recorded onto the track as closely as possible to what it really sounds like live. 


 Peete._

 

I didn't make myself clear obviously. What I'm saying is that when we get a sample of recorded music, like a CD, there is nothing Natural about it. Neither before it became a CD, or after you get ahold of it to try to listen to it. Comparing it to live, or natural, or neutral makes no sense. It is by it's nature artificial. It is also the creation of the Engineering staff that produced it. Then we take a system with a million colorations and try to listen to it.

 That's why I said the most neutral way to Listen to a CD was to put it up to your ear and listen to it.


----------



## mbd2884

When it comes to the music I listen to, proud to say I have seen the majority of the bands live, I always make a distinction when someone asks me about the bands. Every band I have seen sound different from their studio album. Live vs Studio recorded music are two completely different things.

 Either way, I think this conversation has gone way off topic, lets get back to reviewing and discussing the Compass.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa told me in an email that the C2C had a very wide frequency response, 1Hz to 100kHz. I was having an issue with sibilance and thought that maybe the C2C was a bit bright. I imagined that the Compass would be the same, with the "soft" options allowing that to be tamed. It seems he tamed the sound and added a soft option, which was a bit much. Some of it probably has to do with my Denons, which I listen through a lot, as taming the bass in them made them a bit bright._

 

since kingwa tested with his own pair of Denons, I wonder if he noticed it was soft at the high end too, since I'm thinking his denons aren't modded.

 Looks like I'll be sticking to neutral - Curra are you listening to neutral right now?


----------



## K3cT

It's very interesting so far. For me the Zero has an overall smooth sound so it's looking that the Compass may retain the same signature.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I disagree completely (all joking aside)......if you are five feet away from a string quartet in a small setting, no amplification...you are hearing the instruments as a direct source to your ears....there is no added coloration of artificial means...this a reference neutral moment and will give you a base experience SQ for each of those instruments you've witnessed that day.

 Don't think of Neutrality in the literal sense, think of it as starting point for getting the fundamental characteristics of the instrument being recorded onto the track as closely as possible to what it really sounds like live._

 

Good post, Peete! I started out reading your previous post expecting to disagree and found myself agreeing almost completely. Getting to know instruments intimately, up close and personal and in small settings can be the only reference that is really relevant to judge the naturalness of sound reproduction.
 I'm always amazed about people claiming that their search in Hi-end audio is for the closest thing to a live a concert. I can still imagine this when we're talking about a string quartet or just a man with his guitar. When it comes to amplified music (especially stadium concerts) I do sincerely hope that those of us who have invested quite a bit in their equipment at home have sound quality that is far superior to that heard at those concerts.
 But even when were talking about a good symphony orchestra in a good hall, I find the experience quite different from the sound I can manage to get from a cd. Sure, in many ways the live experience can't be beat, for naturalness of sound, the sheer sense of being enveloped in music, the occassion... But when it comes down to, for example, being able to differentiate the instruments, focussing on individual instruments or instrument groups, I actually find a recorded version to be superior to the real thing. And I'm not just talking about modern multi-miked stuff either, good classical recordings from the 60's already offer that kind of resolution. Moreover, there is no ideal spot in a concert hall, depending on the place of your seat you'll get a different perspective on the sound. While none of those correspond with your "listening position" in a recording (e.g. the position of the main microphones) which hang about 3-4 meters above and right in front of the orchestra. Well, these are just my 2 cents, based on an awful lot of listening experience at the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam with an assortement of world class orchestra's. 

 On a different note, how is the Compass listening group coming along Peete?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Ok Les... I understand your point but we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

 Sandchak that is exactly what I mean ...your term natural (to describe something as it sounds for real) is what I call neutral or realistic....the terms are interchangeable.

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

I can't wait till all you guys get your Compasses and stop crapping on about this stuff.


----------



## K3cT

Currawong, it's great to see you at last today! How'd the Compass cooking so far, does it sound a lot better than the Zero already?


----------



## sandchak

Well, since I do not have my Compass yet, maybe I can do a little bit more of crapping!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just did some reading about the vocabs such as neutral, soft and bright in audio gears. What I assume from the readings, is that a DAC is neutral when it adds no colorations to the the source like the CD, if its recorded bright, what you get ultimately is bright, and if soft the output is soft..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just did some reading about the vocabs such as neutral, soft and bright in audio gears. What I assume from the readings, is that a DAC is neutral when it adds no colorations to the the source like the CD, if its recorded bright, what you get ultimately is bright, and if soft the output is soft.._

 

Uhm, yes, the only problem being that the only reference here would be how it relates to other DACs. How do you know what the actual CD sounds like, if not through a DAC? (This was part of Les's point, I believe.)


----------



## Drosera

And now on topic:

 Now that the first impressions seem to be that the sound of the Compass rolls off a bit in the highs (Ok, actually too early to tell I guess. We'll have to see.), I wondered what kind of OPA (HDAM) will you guys be using in your Compasses? Since most of us will get both the Compass and the OPA new, they will have to go through burn-in combined. But I also assume that a lot of you have bought at least one extra OPA. So what will you use for the burn-in period? Earth, Moon or Sun?
 Personally, I think I will use Earth to start with, I think. Since it seems to be the most neutral one. (I have a choice, I've ordered the complete half solar system.) For those people who have already received their Compass, are you using the Moon that came with it?


----------



## K3cT

I have a spare Earth myself but I'm wondering how should I ground it since Kingwa has special HDAMs for the Compass. 

 I think I'll start with the Moon first because I like its sound signature the best and without using any jumpers for a smooth-neutral sound. I also think of ordering the Sun as well since its vibrancy may complement the softness of the Compass well.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a spare Earth myself but I'm wondering how should I ground it since Kingwa has special HDAMs for the Compass. 
 ._

 

Nothing different from regular HDAMs he sells, just that ground wire has an attachment, unlike bare wire which needed to be soldered, you can just take the Earth's ground wire and screw it where he has asked to..


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nothing different from regular HDAMs he sells, just that ground wire has an attachment, unlike bare wire which needed to be soldered, you can just take the Earth's ground wire and screw it where he has asked to.._

 

All right, thanks for the clarification. I hope yours arrive soon so we can have more impressions to share.


----------



## Currawong

Ok, some impressions:

 After a day running continuously (with whatever HDAM I wasn't using being kept warm in my Zero) the sound has much improved. The very warm and soft sound I initially heard has gone and the sound has moved towards neutral. The headamp is a tiny bit less bright than my C2C, somewhere in the very high treble, but that's by design because of a comment I made to Kingwa.

 Even not fully burned in yet, the DAC gives about 85% of what my Northstar does using my expensive Van Den Hul Optocoupler from my MacBook Pro. Edit: I should probably add that I don't think that this means that the Compass is 90% as good as a Northstar. The Northstar has the much better I2S connection, meant for connecting its matching CD player directly to the DA chip. Very likely with a much better CD player, or the matching CD player from Northstar, the result would be considerably better, but I have no means of testing this. In _my_ set-up, the Compass gives 90% of what I get from the Northstar.

 It took the same optical cable to best the quality of USB input, but only very just. I had to A/B tracks many times to pick up the most subtle of differences, stuff like the decaying of notes in a piano solo, before I could discern which was better.

 Yes, it sounds like a much improved Zero in all aspects, even using 3x HDAMs in the Zero. The sound signature is very similar.

 Build quality is excellent. The main switches are great. The Neutrik jack is great (and necessary because the Chinese alternative is rubbish).

 A quick listen (to the ST3) suggests the headamp section is better than the ST3. 

 I forgot about the gain settings. I don't find them necessary switching between HD-600s (300 Ohm) and D5000s (25 Ohm).

 Edit: The 4 layers of double-sided foam tape under the lid to hold the HDAM in place, is just for shipping and can be removed, according to Kingwa.

 There are a couple of small negatives: The reduced highs (my fault, again) which make the "soft" modes possibly pointless. There's no hex key included with the unit (unless I didn't look hard enough) and one is needed to take the case off, though pliers + fingers will work as the bolts are the raised type.

 I could easily live with just the Compass as it is now. It's met (and exceeded) what I hoped would come from the design. Though it's going to end up a bit more expensive than what would be practical to replace a fully-upgraded Zero, from other gear I've heard (Lavry, Northstar, Benchmark, C2C), it would take $1000 or more worth of equipment to get a significant sound upgrade, especially taking into account at this stage: It's not fully burned in and a couple of minor improvements will likely be made.


----------



## Drosera

I wonder if there's an easy way to tune it to sound a little bit brighter, if only to make the changeable jumper settings more useful.

 Nice impressions though. On the other hand, it kinda makes me want to do the visual equivalent of sticking my fingers in my ears and going 'lalalalala' at the top of my voice, because I want to find these things out for myself. But maybe that's just me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But summing up, we already have an amp section that's better than a 225$ headamp from Audio-Gd (the ST-3) and a DAC that's already 90% of what a 2500$ DAC delivers (the Northstar), with room for improvement. This is already a package that's pretty hard to beat!


----------



## sandchak

Thanks Curra, I must say, the initial impressions seem very positive. For people like me who believe in burn in - a scope for further improvement..


----------



## Currawong

I'm sure that because people have different headphones and different computers, as well as tastes in music, we'll get some interesting comments. Also, people will have different equipment to compare it to, which is where I think things will get interesting.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was this done just for transport? Or is the HDAM generally unstable in its socket?_

 

Yes, those are only to keep the HDAM on the socket during transportation, it can used again if you plan to pack Compass and relocate somewhere else.. whatever..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, those are only to keep the HDAM on the socket during transportation, it can used again if its going to be again on the move.._

 

Ok, I see it has been edited in the original post now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 This is reassuring to know. I thought the pins of the HDAM looked long enough to make it stable, but then again, it is quite a big construction.


----------



## mbd2884

While this project started by asking Kingwa to design an alternative to the ZERO.

 This is in fact is a closer competitor to the KECES 152 in that they both use a 250$ DAC both companies had with great reviews and added on good amps, even though Audio-dg appears to have put in a much better discrete amp than KECES did.

 Might also be a competitor with the Meier Audio DAC/AMP combos, even though again, I think Audio-dg Compass appears to be using much higher quality parts and hopefully a much more accurate, larger soundstage and well more awesome.

 Thanks Curra for that review. Sounds like what I was looking for in the Compass, a DAC/AMP so good at its price range, after promotion guessing 450+, that only way to get an improvement would be to start dumping thousands of dollars into the system. I was not expecting the Compass to be beating the beta22, was just expecting it to be the most value and best for an entry level mid-fi/hi-fi DAC/AMP. Awesome.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's very interesting so far. For me the Zero has an overall smooth sound so it's looking that the Compass may retain the same signature._


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if there's an easy way to tune it to sound a little bit brighter, if only to make the changeable jumper settings more useful._

 


 yeah, perhaps instead of neutral, and soft 1-3 we can have "hard 1" and drop the "soft 3" or something like that.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edit: I should probably add that I don't think that this means that the Compass is 90% as good as a Northstar. The Northstar has the much better I2S connection, meant for connecting its matching CD player directly to the DA chip. Very likely with a much better CD player, or the matching CD player from Northstar, the result would be considerably better, but I have no means of testing this. In my set-up, the Compass gives 90% of what I get from the Northstar._

 

Haha, I knew that was a little too good to be true. Still, for this kind of money, pretty amazing. And of course, if you do want more DAC, Audio-Gd has some rather mouthwatering specimens on offer.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Might also be a competitor with the Meier Audio DAC/AMP combos, even though again, I think Audio-dg Compass appears to be using much higher quality parts and hopefully a much more accurate, larger soundstage and well more awesome._

 

I wondered about this as well. Certainly a lot of the Audio-Gd stuff _looks_ more high-grade than the insides of a lot of Meier equipment. (Is there anyone who knows a little more about this?)
 Is it better than a Cantate? Could very well be, certainly the Cantate-DAC is a rather simple one, as far as I know. Can it beat the Symphony? I think not. Can it beat the Opera? Well, I hope I can tell you more about that in a few months time.
 What I _do_ expect/am hoping for is a different sound signature than that found in Meier amps. The Meier signature is rather reserved and laid back (Jan would say 'neutral), which I really like, but most people might prefer a little more aggression. I'm just hoping for a different character, and hopefully some different synergy results.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah, perhaps instead of neutral, and soft 1-3 we can have "hard 1" and drop the "soft 3" or something like that._

 


 Actually there is a lot of factors to take into consideration like Curra said, what is the source one is using, the headphones, I mean everything in the path has its own sonic characteristics, if the DAC is neutral as Kingwa suggests, then it is basically true to its source

 Maybe in my case its good I don't have a headphone yet ( just sold the K701s a fortnight back), so I'll be keenly watching what headphones are being used and how it sounds before I make a purchase..

 As far as my correspondence with kingwa goes, he is willing to make some changes like making it a little brighter if the majority of us feel that way after we have received the Compass and allowed some time to settle down.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While this project started by asking Kingwa to design an alternative to the ZERO.

 This is in fact is a closer competitor to the KECES 152 in that they both use a 250$ DAC both companies had with great reviews and added on good amps, even though Audio-dg appears to have put in a much better discrete amp than KECES did.

 Might also be a competitor with the Meier Audio DAC/AMP combos, even though again, I think Audio-dg Compass appears to be using much higher quality parts and hopefully a much more accurate, larger soundstage and well more awesome.

 Thanks Curra for that review. Sounds like what I was looking for in the Compass, a DAC/AMP so good at its price range, after promotion guessing 450+, that only way to get an improvement would be to start dumping thousands of dollars into the system. I was not expecting the Compass to be beating the beta22, was just expecting it to be the most value and best for an entry level mid-fi/hi-fi DAC/AMP. Awesome._

 



 Good point. After the "price adjustment" this will be nowhere near the Zero price, especially the Base Zero. Folks in that price range wanting that feature set still have to do the Zero crapshoot.

 That being said, I REALLY like where this product ended up at.


 .


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually there is a lot of factors to take into consideration like Curra said, what is the source one is using, the headphones, I mean everything in the path has its own sonic characteristics, if the DAC is neutral as Kingwa suggests, then it is basically true to its source

 As far as my correspondence with kingwa goes, he is willing to make some changes like making it a little brighter if the majority of us feel that way after we have received the Compass and allowed some time to settle down._

 

I use pretty much the same headphones as Curra (if i'm not wrong, mine bein d5ks) so his comments do worry me a little. But seeing how the unit is maturing, and since Kingwa is willing to make changes, I think there's not much to be worried about.

 He should be having his holidays (countdown time!), maybe I disturb him later with questions.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, some impressions:

 After a day running continuously (with whatever HDAM I wasn't using being kept warm in my Zero) the sound has much improved. The very warm and soft sound I initially heard has gone and the sound has moved towards neutral. The headamp is a tiny bit less bright than my C2C, somewhere in the very high treble, but that's by design because of a comment I made to Kingwa.

 ....

 There are a couple of small negatives: The reduced highs (my fault, again) which make the "soft" modes possibly pointless. There's no hex key included with the unit (unless I didn't look hard enough) and one is needed to take the case off, though pliers + fingers will work as the bolts are the raised type._

 

Thanks for the detailed review. You mention that the amp section is treble-oriented. Can you say that the amp is bright then? 

 Are you also saying that no amount of jumper tweaking will fix the soft sound? I also presume that you have not used any of the jumpers yet in your impression here?


----------



## K3cT

Anyway, happy lunar new year to those who celebrate it! Gong Xi Fat Chai!


----------



## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While this project started by asking Kingwa to design an alternative to the ZERO.

 This is in fact is a closer competitor to the KECES 152 in that they both use a 250$ DAC both companies had with great reviews and added on good amps, even though *Audio-dg appears to have put in a much better discrete amp than KECES did.*_

 

Much better in what terms?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah, perhaps instead of neutral, and soft 1-3 we can have "hard 1" and drop the "soft 3" or something like that._

 

The point about having an option to reduce the treble was in response to some Grado owners finding the "cap snip" mod to the Zero resulting in discomfort. I've asked that the Compass be neutral tonally by default, as this is the best option all round. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the detailed review. You mention that the amp section is treble-oriented. Can you say that the amp is bright then? 

 Are you also saying that no amount of jumper tweaking will fix the soft sound? I also presume that you have not used any of the jumpers yet in your impression here?_

 

I didn't say anything that you've just written. 

 I haven't used any of the jumpers, but I know what effect they will have (it's in an email somewhere).


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The point about having an option to reduce the treble was in response to some Grado owners finding the "cap snip" mod to the Zero resulting in discomfort. I've asked that the Compass be neutral tonally by default, as this is the best option all round. _

 

Hmz... if that's the case, while the compass is compensating for the brighter phones, won't that mean people with darker phones who want a brighter sound shouldn't be looking here?

 Then again it's a good thing Kingwa tested with a d2000, I'm guessing I won't go too wrong at any rate.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While this project started by asking Kingwa to design an alternative to the ZERO.

 This is in fact is a closer competitor to the KECES 152 in that they both use a 250$ DAC both companies had with great reviews and added on good amps, even though Audio-dg appears to have put in a much better discrete amp than KECES did._

 

Hello mbd2884,

 I'd like to know how is it better? I'm quite curious about the details regarding that.


 Thanks

 David


----------



## TopPop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is in fact is a closer competitor to the KECES 152 in that they both use a 250$ DAC both companies had with great reviews and added on good amps, even though Audio-dg appears to have put in a much better discrete amp than KECES did.

 Might also be a competitor with the Meier Audio DAC/AMP combos, even though again, I think Audio-dg Compass appears to be using much higher quality parts and hopefully a much more accurate, larger soundstage and well more awesome._

 

Ummm... hmmm... wellll...

 Have you heard either the DA-152 or the Meier Cantante/etc.? If _so_, what are the specific differences? If _not_, then how can you substantiate these claims?


----------



## mbd2884

What part of appear do any of you not understand? Its not a definitive statement, far from it. As Kingwa has been completely open about what components and from which vendors he's used in the Compass, it "appears" that the Compass uses higher quality parts. So yes it is a speculation, shoot me because I'm speculating in a thread about a prototype development of a new DAC/AMP.

 Reasoning is simple, just compare KECES to Audio-dg. KECES made their big bang with the 151 and now trying to ride that wave. Kingwa designed Compass to the specifications of some pretty discerning Audio enthusiasts in this thread. The two products were designed on two completely different intentions, one trying to milk its success of 151 as much as possible, the other trying to blow away any other competitor at the price range. Compass having separate modules for the components is quite unique in comparison to 152 and well frankly, its far more versatile and yes appears to be using higher quality parts. So yes this is speculation, and I also await for some interesting comparison of the 152 and Compass, but I am feel confident that Kingwa will have succeeded in surpassing his competitors at the mid-fi price range. Especially with Curra's recent review and Tyson's excellent reviews of his incredible Audio-dg setup.

 Like you, I was at one time interested in the 152, but I am so happy that I did not purchase the 152 as you have and waited for the results of the Compass and hopefully to take it for a spin this week.


----------



## TopPop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What part of appear do any of you not understand? Its not a definitive statement, far from it. As Kingwa has been completely open about what components and from which vendors he's used in the Compass, it "appears" that the Compass uses higher quality parts. So I will not substantiating anything as I have not made any definite claims what so ever. There is nothing wrong with speculation, if you got issues with it, then why even bother posting in a thread about a prototype DAC/AMP?

 Hmm I know, that was hard to comprehend.

 And yes we know you just bought yourself a 152 and don't want your product being shot down. But frankly to me, the Compass design looks substantially improved and far more versatile that the 152. Luckily someone in this thread has agreed to review the 152 in comparison to the Compass. That and it definitely seems to me the 152 Price tag is based on the success of the 151, and KECES just hoped slapping on an Amp would justify doubling the price of the 152 from the 151._

 

Wooowww.

 It's true what they say about the Internet + complete anonymity, I guess.


----------



## mbd2884

Woooww.

 I guess so. Like I said if you got a problem with my speculation, don't care, enjoy your 152 and ignore my postings in this thread then. Pretty simple huh?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TopPop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wooowww.

 It's true what they say about the Internet + complete anonymity, I guess._

 

I see nothing unreasonable in what he said though. Certainly from looking at what we're getting the layout and features of the Compass surpass the KECES. And if you just want to count all the bits the Compass has more of them *giggle*... but ultimately we'll have to judge them on their performance not spec sheets or design because that's what will matter most to people and be the easiest for most people to grasp. Compared to what's in the KECES and the mentioned Meier amps the Compass does look to be very stiff competition but whether that pans out is to be determined.


----------



## TopPop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see nothing unreasonable in what he said though. Certainly from looking at what we're getting the layout and features of the Compass surpass the KECES. And if you just want to count all the bits the Compass has more of them *giggle*... but ultimately we'll have to judge them on their performance not spec sheets or design because that's what will matter most to people and be the easiest for most people to grasp. Compared to what's in the KECES and the mentioned Meier amps the Compass does look to be very stiff competition but whether that pans out is to be determined._

 

You have a good point. Well, then I will recant my previous questioning. Thank you for being civil.

 P.S. The post of mine that you quoted had nothing to do with _what_ he said, but rather _how_ he said it.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The point about having an option to reduce the treble was in response to some Grado owners finding the "cap snip" mod to the Zero resulting in discomfort. I've asked that the Compass be neutral tonally by default, as this is the best option all round. 


_

 



 From your "Initial" listening description, sounds like Kngwa may have hit it spot on.


----------



## mbd2884

Hehe worst comes to worst if you want a more bright sound, he still gives you the option of getting the Earth and Sun Opamps.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Ya know, only in head-fi do situations like this not blow up into all out flame wars. Multiple times in this thread we have had some minor hostility that seems to just fizzle out on its own. As much as I miss getting to take runs at people online, it is nice to have a really relax forum atmosphere. I don't think I've ever used an overall more polite and well behaved forum.

 Still excited for the Compass. Now I just need to get new phones to really go with it. The only reason I am getting the Compass first is because I want to jump on the promo price. As much as people say get good cans first, My SR80's will have to tide me over for a bit longer. My Boa was great to them and I expect nothing less from the Compass.


----------



## Currawong

Maniac: Interested in sending me a Keces to compare to the Compass?

 An interesting thing here, that likely has to do with component synergy:

 I pulled out my ED9s for some listening with the Compass. I've noticed that ED9s seem to go well with neutral-sounding gear, and the Compass is a good match. Anyway, I listened, via USB, with the Compass and quite enjoyed the sound. I thought, since obviously I like the sound of my Northstar DAC better, I hooked it up to the input of the Compass and played back the same music I had just before, some choral music. It didn't sound as good, even though I'm using cables that are worth more than the Compass to connect them. So, as an observation, the headamp in the Compass has (not really surprisingly) great synergy with the inbuilt DAC. I suspect this will be the strength of the Compass, as a standalone unit, but that's not a surprise either.

 Edit: Just for clarity: "Warm" Northstar + "warm" headphone amp, plus "warm" headphones = TOO warm.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TopPop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_P.S. The post of mine that you quoted had nothing to do with what he said, but rather how he said it._

 

Gotcha. I guess it would be a bit unpleasant to read as an owner of said KECES huh? Either way, I'm curious how it stacks up. I don't have the KECES myself but I am giving the Compass a shot.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehe worst comes to worst if you want a more bright sound, he still gives you the option of getting the Earth and Sun Opamps._

 

I don't know (or care 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) about any of the rest of you, but I want my source & amplification to have the most neutral characteristics possible as their default setting. If I want to tweak them from there then that's fine, but I don't want to have to "fix" some sort of imbalance/coloration.


----------



## TopPop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gotcha. I guess it would be a bit unpleasant to read as an owner of said KECES huh?_

 

Nah, no big deal. But it was his reaction to my questioning his reasons for saying that which really surprised me...


----------



## csroc

Ahh that, yes. Well, it's over now


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya know, only in head-fi do situations like this not blow up into all out flame wars. Multiple times in this thread we have had some minor hostility that seems to just fizzle out on its own. As much as I miss getting to take runs at people online, it is nice to have a really relax forum atmosphere. I don't think I've ever used an overall more polite and well behaved forum._

 

True, that's head-fi.org for ya. It's a very pleasant place to be. But behave! Or our moderators will get you!


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know (or care 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) about any of the rest of you, but I want my source & amplification to have the most neutral characteristics possible as their default setting. If I want to tweak them from there then that's fine, but I don't want to have to "fix" some sort of imbalance/coloration._

 

Thats a good point that I hadnt really realized. I was starting to get a bit worried since the headphones I have tend to favor colorization of some sort (HD650 [on the way] and DT770 consumer). There are plenty of amp stages though that produce coloration of any desired combination and then some. I shouldnt worry so much about the current believed neutrality of the Compass. I intend to add an amp down the road where I can color as necessary.


----------



## Taikero

For those of you who have received the Compass, if any of you have a K.I.C.A.S. or Caliente I'm interested in a comparison (Amp to amp is what I'm really interested in) if you wouldn't mind.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_True, that's head-fi.org for ya. It's a very pleasant place to be. But behave! Or our moderators will get you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It looks like you are eagerly waiting for your Compass today ! cant wait to hear your impressions.. Mine is still stuck in Heathrow! called DHL and they said yesterdays flight was canceled - so it would only reach me on Wednesday.. (can you imagine how I feel.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It looks like you are eagerly waiting for your Compass today ! cant wait to hear your impressions.. Mine is still stuck in Heathrow! called DHL and they said yesterdays flight was canceled - so it would only reach me on Wednesday.. (can you imagine how I feel.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

OMG, that's incredibly frustrating. Isn't there a different postal service that would take a more direct route to Georgia? (Not much use now, of course, but maybe for in the future.) And how annoyingly ironic, that you who were the first to order it and seem to get it the last.

 I'm awaiting my Compass, yes, but I don't know if I can also expect it today. The DHL USA says "Processing for clearance" since yesterday afternoon, the Dutch one says "Processed for clearance" (note the subtle distinction 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Not out for delivery yet. But, as Peete said, there's a good chance you'll see the driver at your door sooner than you will see that message.
 My main problem: I don't know if I can be at home when the delivery comes.

 You said you've just sold your only headphones. How will you be using your Compass? As a DAC/Pre-Amp?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OMG, that's incredibly frustrating. Isn't there a different postal service that would take a more direct route to Georgia? (Not much use now, of course, but maybe for in the future.) And how annoyingly ironic, that you who were the first to order it and seem to get it the last.

 I'm awaiting my Compass, yes, but I don't know if I can also expect it today. The DHL USA says "Processing for clearance" since yesterday afternoon, the Dutch one says "Processed for clearance" (note the subtle distinction 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Not out for delivery yet. But, as Peete said, there's a good chance you'll see the driver at your door sooner than you will see that message.
 My main problem: I don't know if I can be at home when the delivery comes.

 You said you've just sold your only headphones. How will you be using your Compass? As a DAC/Pre-Amp?_

 

Yeah it pretty ironic, when I was the first to pay and also that it was shipped with the first batch with the preamp out (Peete included)..

 Anyway, the fact that it will be still reaching within a week after DHL says shipped is quite fast, considering USPS Express Mail takes around 3 weeks!

 Oh yes, about the headphones, I think I'll be looking at peoples reviews with the different HPs used and then finally decide, in any case, I am more of a Speaker person than headphone - I just jumped into the HP scene only a couple of months ago, so I'll be checking on the DAC section with my PC speakers (Swans MKII Passive, as it runs through my HK amp, and NAD C541i CDP), and also my main rig to check if the DAC outperforms my Marantz CD17 CDP.

 Oh, I just heard from DHL, there are chances I might receive it tomorrow as they seem to have routed the package through Turkey - talking about more direct route (HK - Germany - UK - Turkey - Georgia !!), I must say my Compass is Special !! 

 Well, I hope you Compass does reach you today !!


----------



## AudioPhewl

My Compass has arrived. Sounds good... have the OPA-Moon installed(AFAIK - I've not opened up the case yet). Will pop my well-used Earth in there in a bit.

 Unit was utterly stone cold when it arrived... I left it on top of my Stax energiser for 45 minutes before plugging it in. I must say... it really does look the part with my Stax energiser. Both have the black aluminium front panel. Actually, both have a similar feel to them...

 Will post a few listening initial impressions later today sometime. I'll also rob my brother's Zero(which, incidentally, is STILL working properly! I wish I'd never given him that actual unit...).

 /me is very happy so far. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## sandchak

Lucky You ! actually you should remove that rubber tape around the OPAMP, its meant for transportation.

 Hope you can steal the Zero from your brother.. give us more of your impressions, what headphones are you using??..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I must say... it really does look the part with my Stax energiser. Both have the black aluminium front panel._

 

Pix!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congratulations, let's hope they will all have arrived before the end of this week.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lucky You ! actually you should remove that rubber tape around the OPAMP, its meant for transportation.

 Hope you can steal the Zero from your brother.. give us more of your impressions, what headphones are you using??.._

 

With the Compass as an amplifier, my trusty old Sennheiser HD480-II 600ohms. But...

 I use my Stax 4040II rig primarily, and it's in a different league to my old Senns. I'll be one of the few people on here who can't give a thorough test of the headphone amplifier function, as I'm so used to the Stax, everything else sounds muffled. Not just my Senns, but friends HD650s and D2ks... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pix!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congratulations, let's hope they will all have arrived before the end of this week._

 

I assure you, my rubbish £20 digital camera can't do the unit justice. It's so bad... I generally take 5 pictures to get one good one. It was only purchased to take pictures of my old motorbike to go on eBay after it was written off. I kid you not... I must have taken 60+, and ended up with 7-10 that were any good.

 Build quality appears to be beautiful. Everything has a tight fit, without actually being rubbing against anything else. I've pulled the lid and put my well used OPA-Earth in(which sounds utterly sublime, it really does - I prefer this to the Moon personally), and internal construction is very, very tidy. All wires seem to be perfectly measured and accurately cut to length. Component placement is perfect... everything about the unit looks and feels _perfect_. It is a HUGE leap forward over the Zero, it really is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS - the securing tape has been removed. 3mm allen key is needed to remove the top case, 6 screws. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## majkel

What's the supply voltage for the HDAM in the Compass DAC?


----------



## AudioPhewl

+/-15.3v

 Total of 30.6v across the OPA module(just to clarify).

 ~Phewl.


----------



## majkel

Thanks, buddy! I just wanted to be sure if I did it right to evaluate the HDAM's at +-15V voltages.


----------



## AudioPhewl

They are rated up to +/-25v... I've often wondered whether the extra voltage push would make a difference. Or, indeed, the additional heat...

 ETA - just been reading your opamps/HDAM module guide. Nicely done! I'm very pleased to see someone else who appreciated the LT1028... I always thought they gave a much more detailed account of the music than the more famous(overhyped?) OPA627...

 I've not touched an opamp since I received my Audio-GD modules. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Maniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maniac: Interested in sending me a Keces to compare to the Compass?_

 

I'm definitely interested in a comparison, but I'd prefer to wait until Compass had entered into production and reviewed by a non-related 3rd party. It's nothing personal, but just our review policy.


 Thanks

 David


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm definitely interested in a comparison, but I'd prefer to wait until Compass had entered into production and reviewed by a non-related 3rd party. It's nothing personal, but just our review policy._

 

Fair enough. Just to note though: I am not related in any way to Audio-gd, other than as a customer. 

 I would actually like one of the more experienced head-fi'ers that have a lot more experience with gear than myself to review a Compass and give an opinion. I'm interesting to find out how it ends up comparing with the Keces though, not to mention other gear, as I simply don't have that perspective.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm definitely interested in a comparison, but I'd prefer to wait until Compass had entered into production and reviewed by a non-related 3rd party. It's nothing personal, but just our review policy.


 Thanks

 David_

 

Third party??.. I understand you are one of the parties, but I do not think members like Curra or Peete would be biased in their reviews, As far as I know and I am sure about it, they are not related or tied up to any Manufacturer- that statement sounds very defensive to me, and doesn't inspire much confidence in the product..


----------



## majkel

AudioPhewl, I switched from the +-12V to +-15V rails and only the Sun v.2 gained from this. I asked the question because Kingwa is the designer of the discrete op-amps and he knows how to do them justice. 

 I thnik that comparison to stock, unmodded devices would be interesting for many of us. I have access to the Beresford TC7510, AudioNemesis DC-1, Northstar M192 MkI, maybe CEC DX51 and some modded stuff but can compare during meetings only.


----------



## mbd2884

Well called DHL and have rerouted to my office instead of home, hopefully arrive this afternoon or by tomorrow noon.

 Horray


----------



## haloxt

Hmm, i checked the DHL tracking site and it says it was signed for and delivered even though there's nothing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I called them and they'll try to work things out, geez, bad news for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I read online someone call DHL Demon holding loot, mebbe it will be true in my case.

 Signed for by: M WONG
 1/26/2009 9:02 am Shipment delivered.


----------



## csroc

Signed up for the email notification and got the email just after 9 this morning that it was out for delivery.


----------



## Sganzerla

Looks like mine left Netherlands some hours ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm thinking of using my extra Earth in Compass before Moon, so I can compare to my Zero. Let's see what happens...


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah, Tyson is not the only one to lose items from DHL and never to see them again, if you just google DHL, there are so many horror stories.

 Too bad Kingwa doesn't work with FedEx. I've never had problems with FedEx.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Third party??.. I understand you are one of the parties, but I do not think members like Curra or Peete would be biased in their reviews, As far as I know and I am sure about it, they are not related or tied up to any Manufacturer- that statement sounds very defensive to me, and doesn't inspire much confidence in the product.._

 

Mate, you don't have to speak for us. You need to chill out a bit. Just relax and enjoy your Compass when it arrives. Leave it on 24/7 for a few days if you can, go through some music and let us all know what conclusions you've come to.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, Tyson is not the only one to lose items from DHL and never to see them again, if you just google DHL, there are so many horror stories._

 

All couriers suck in some way. It's very locality dependant as well. In many cases, such as in Japan, a third party does the delivery, which could be good or bad. In Japan this is good, if it's in Australia (such as out in country areas) it can be very bad.


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah that's the downside to DHL. Here in the US, they do they same, local deliveries are done by the post office usually.

 Which is why FedEx and UPS rock since its all done internally, one company from start to finish with frequently updated web tracking.

 As for comparison to KECES, I'm not worried. This comparison will be done and would seem whether you chose to buy a 152 or a Compass, the audio enthusiast would enjoy both. Just personally I'm extremely happy I chose not to go with KECES. Ebay companies creep me out and Kingwa's customer relations is completely at an unprecedented level for me right now. I have never seen this kind of quick communication, service and response like this before, ever, and I paid 300 USD only. Blows my mind, for the kind of response and service Kingwa has provided now, normally I would expect this if I had spent 1500+ USD. So I am completely impressed by all of this, so no offense to Maniac, completely no regret in choosing Audio-dg over KECES, especially the versatility.

 The fact his process isn't a click Buy Now button with a whole lot of legal mumbo jumbo that scare the hell out of me and makes me completely nervous, is awesome. Even purchasing from him was very personal. Discussed payment type first, how to do it. Confirmed he received payment. Confirmed my order, my specifications. Confirmed the address and worked with me to rectify changing from my Home to Work address. Overall, just buying the Compass alone from Kingwa was very enjoyable, smooth.


----------



## sandchak

DHL tracking is driving me crazy.. the site last update says : 1/25/2009 4:18 am London-heathrow, United Kingdom .. people at the DHL office says its in Turkey.. I am Georgia !


----------



## haloxt

Let's say the driver did steal it, will DHL refund it or anything? Really, I'd like to hear their explanation of my signing it.


----------



## csroc

I agree with you about the buying process mdb.

 Mine just arrived a few moments ago and I've unpacked it. Darn thing is freezing cold (it's about 8F out right now). Very solid feeling and certainly is large. I popped the top and it looks as expected (left the tape that holds the HDAM on for now). The Selector switch has a nice feel to it, as does the volume knob. I gotta give it some time to warm up now.

 I'll have to figure out whether Super pushed in means on or off since there's no label on it to indicate that (will be a part of my suggestions to Kingwa).


----------



## sandchak

If its insured, then I suppose you should get the money back - remember Tyson story - Kingwa shipped another set of gears ( costing more than a grand) without waiting for the claim.

  Quote:


 Super pushed in means on or off 
 

pushed in means on.. Glad you got your Compass..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assure you, my rubbish £20 digital camera can't do the unit justice. It's so bad... I generally take 5 pictures to get one good one. It was only purchased to take pictures of my old motorbike to go on eBay after it was written off. I kid you not... I must have taken 60+, and ended up with 7-10 that were any good._

 

Oh dear, fair enough. Although I was curious to see the combo. Can you paint? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_3mm allen key is needed to remove the top case, 6 screws. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Good to know, no hard to get Chinese size key then.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would actually like one of the more experienced head-fi'ers that have a lot more experience with gear than myself to review a Compass and give an opinion. I'm interesting to find out how it ends up comparing with the Keces though, not to mention other gear, as I simply don't have that perspective._

 

Time to PM Skylab!


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_pushed in means on.. Glad you got your Compass.._

 

That's what I was assuming would be the case.


----------



## ccschua

Interesting. See someone comparing the KECES to audio-gd products in the compass thread. I would rather like to see Compass compared to KECES in the KECES thread. In this way, this will bring more critics to come to level ground.


----------



## csroc

I think at this point everyone is just asking for those comparisons to be done. Someone would have to introduce the Audio-gd product to those threads, probably best if it was someone that actually owned the competing product.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If its insured, then I suppose you should get the money back - remember Tyson story - Kingwa shipped another set of gears ( costing more than a grand) without waiting for the claim.



 pushed in means on.. Glad you got your Compass.._

 

Well my case is slightly different from Tyson's... his was lost, mine was "delivered" and someone forged my signature LOL. i called them twenty minutes after their supposed delivery and they told me they'll get back to me before 5pm today. when i find out who forged my signature i think i'll have to call 911.


----------



## sandchak

What you say makes sense.. maybe they actually delivered to some wrong address, or it also can be one one of those things DHL tracking is getting famous for.. like Compass starting its journey in 1970!..


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't say anything that you've just written. 

 I haven't used any of the jumpers, but I know what effect they will have (it's in an email somewhere)._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After a day running continuously (with whatever HDAM I wasn't using being kept warm in my Zero) the sound has much improved. The very warm and soft sound I initially heard has gone and the sound has moved towards neutral. The headamp is a tiny bit less bright than my C2C, somewhere in the very high treble, but that's by design because of a comment I made to Kingwa._

 

I thought by saying that the Compass' headamp has "very high treble", you mean that it displays a certain amount of brightness. My apologies if I misunderstood you because I was just wondering how treble-oriented is this head-amp. 

 On another note, Kingwa just e-mailed me that the revised Compass will be ready by the end of February. Damn, it's going to be a long wait.


----------



## csroc

K3cT, he said the C2C was bright, not the Compass. 

 In any case, I have my Compass plugged in and have been listening for a bit now. It sounds great, very clean and plenty of power with my HD650s. I've already pulled the gain jumpers out to lower the gain to 13dB instead of 19.

 I'm very happy that the feet on this are just the right width to let it sit happily on top of my desktop case for the moment.

 The highs don't sound recessed at all to me... very neutral so far.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, Tyson is not the only one to lose items from DHL and never to see them again, if you just google DHL, there are so many horror stories.

 Too bad Kingwa doesn't work with FedEx. I've never had problems with FedEx._

 

Oh I have. FedEx were really poor around here the last time I used them. I was having some fairly regular deliveries of expensive items, shipped on a pre-noon or pre-3pm(or whatever service was around at that time). Some days they'd turn up on time. Other days, when they were late, they'd ignore my house and knock my neighbours door, then forge the time. One of the muppets actually left the parcel under the car on the drive, and again, forged my signature.

 I complained to FedEx. They replied around a month later, saying they had contracted the deliveries out to a local courier firm, and had since ceased using them. I couldn't give a monkeys, really - FedEx were paid to deliver a parcel, by a pre-arranged time. It's their problem if they outsource to a different company and are let-down. Neither I nor the sender received any form of compensation for these messed up deliveries(there were over a dozen bad ones in total), and since then. I have never used FedEx for anything.

 Compass is brilliant, by the way. Has been running for just under 10 hours... it gets quite warm, but it's a much nicer level of heat than the Zero. It's early days yet, but it's a solid performer in terms of sound quality. And build... and customer service...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## K3cT

I'm not really sure, I thought he said that the Compass is less bright than the C2C but still has very high treble. Doesn't high treble mean bright in one way or another?


----------



## csroc

If he described the Compass as bright I missed it.


----------



## mbd2884

Well the Compass arrived at work. DHL succeeded in getting it here on time.

 Doh, forgot to bring in my 1/4" adapter, so I'm just letting it warm up (Yes, I'm a moron as I do remember holding the adapter in my hands this morning too). Will have to wait until I get home to listen to it. 

 First impression, wow its build solid. A lot heavier than I anticipated and larger. It looks quite nice once its in your hands, very impressive. The knobs in the pictures looked plastic, but now know they are also aluminum. And I do like the blue light.

 Well until tonight.


----------



## mbd2884

A quick run to Radio Shack and yes, I can say I am very pleased with the Compass.

 I am not an experienced Audio reviewer, this is my first dedicated Headphone DAC/AMP and this absolutely blows away anything I have ever owned. 

 Is it worth 258$, I'd say yes. I await for others reviews, this blew away any expectations I had. 

 For me the soundstage and detail is what improved the most. The bass is a lot more controlled. Before Compass I never quite understood what people meant by that, now I do.

 And its so incredibly loud. I'm using Foobar2K ASIO4All and my volume on Foobar is at 50% and Compass is barely turned and its plenty loud.

 Of course I love dead black silence when its on pause.

 If you use the D2000, the bass is great as it is. If you use the AD900, I recommend tweaking your EQ settings a little, but don't worry, none of the details, mids or trebles are sacrificed. So far so good, will have to let it burn in some more while I listen to it.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A quick run to Radio Shack and yes, I can say I am very pleased with the Compass._

 

LOL, you really couldn't wait? Nice to hear it exceeds your expectations.

 So now it's just us people living in the more exotic regions of the world that are still waiting. Brazil, Georgia...eh, The Netherlands.


----------



## mbd2884

Hehe yeah. But I will not be the nice customer, will return it to a local Radioshack nearby claiming I got the wrong adapter, lol.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Canada Customs has mine (since Friday).....I don't know when I'll see it....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehe yeah. But I will not be the nice customer, will return it to a local Radioshack nearby claiming I got the wrong adapter, lol._

 

Cheapskate! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Canada Customs has mine (since Friday).....I don't know when I'll see it....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Ah, somehow I had already put you with the people that had already received it. Is it normal for Canadian customs to take their time?

 It's certainly interesting to see all these deliveries and how posting date doesn't really tell you much about when it's actually going to arrive.

 Mine has been cleared this afternoon. No word yet about it being ready for delivery though.


----------



## olblueyez

Nice "Gears"


----------



## mbd2884

Well I really hope HaloXT gets his Compass soon and that gets resolved.

 And as for Bright, I agree, I'm missing it, the treble sounds great and my headphones are considered bright/forward. 

 I'll be interested to read a review of the KECES 152 and Audio-dg Compass, but I have no interest in buying the KECES any longer. I'm good. I'll just keep listening, compare observations and look to see what further changes Kingwa will make.


----------



## AlexinExile

Mine landed in MD today. Impressions to follow...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cheapskate! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Ah, somehow I had already put you with the people that had already received it. Is it normal for Canadian customs to take their time?

 It's certainly interesting to see all these deliveries and how posting date doesn't really tell you much about when it's actually going to arrive.

 Mine has been cleared this afternoon. No word yet about it being ready for delivery though._

 


 No...they never stop anything coming from China. This is the first time this has happened ....every other shipment from China has been delivered without customs levies and taxes charged...it's odd to say the least.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, you really couldn't wait? Nice to hear it exceeds your expectations.

 So now it's just us people living in the more exotic regions of the world that are still waiting. Brazil, Georgia...eh, The Netherlands. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Canada.....

 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

They called at 5 pm and turns out they delivered it to 5900 instead of 5990. I can't believe my neighbor didn't give it to me -_- if it's already used i'll call the police! oh well at least i know it wasn't stolen ^^.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with you about the buying process mdb.

 Mine just arrived a few moments ago and I've unpacked it. Darn thing is freezing cold (it's about 8F out right now). Very solid feeling and certainly is large. I popped the top and it looks as expected (left the tape that holds the HDAM on for now). The Selector switch has a nice feel to it, as does the volume knob. I gotta give it some time to warm up now.

 I'll have to figure out whether Super pushed in means on or off since there's no label on it to indicate that (will be a part of my suggestions to Kingwa)._

 



 Heh,
 I got my DV 337SE the day before New Years. It was double boxed, and in multiple layers of Styrofoam. I live in South FLorida. The Temp here was in the 80's and the DV was cold as hell!! EMS is pretty fast!!

 .


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not really sure, I thought he said that the Compass is less bright than the C2C but still has very high treble. Doesn't high treble mean bright in one way or another?_

 

Weird how terms can get mixed up. "Bright" means that it has more treble than if it were neutral. Some headphones, such as Beyer DT880s and Grados are considered "bright" headphones because they have strong highs.

 Since Grado SR60s and SR80s are popular entry level headphones, I suggested to Kingwa he buy a pair to test with. This and other discussions lead to the "soft" settings and, because I the C2C headamp isn't neutral-sounding, I thought it might, as well as having strong bass, also be a bit bright, so in the Compass, Kingwa attenuated the treble slightly.

 I think that the current sound would be a good first "soft" setting actually. 

 I'll take the Compass round to a friend's place to compare to his Benchmark DAC1 soon I hope. It is quite bright.


----------



## haloxt

Ok I got it from my neighbor ^^ couldn't call the police on him because he's chinese and its chinese new year. This thing ain't portable btw I thought my neighbor swapped a vcr for it when I opened the box. I got it to play music without blowing anything up (YES!).

 outta the box, iriver h120 optical>compass is a huge improvement over foobar ASIO>ht omega halo soundcard (with lm4562's). Sounds so smooth. I'll try out compass with foobar asio later to see if that'll significantly alter the sound quality, otherwise that's the end of my comparison of compass vs the claro halo, a computer sound card nobody here knows or cares about ^^.

 edit: oh damn, it's playing a nice violin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 now i know my headphones aren't damaged, it's my sound card.


----------



## AudioPhewl

My - very initial - findings... this'll be short(though, adding this line after typing it out, it wasn't that short after all!!), and it's about all I'll say on the matter for quite some time, I think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 These are about the DAC more than the headphone amplifier, as it feeds my Stax setup, which I can't run from the headphone amplifier...

 Compass is very, very good. I wouldn't call it bright. It is, however, very clear, and feels beautifully balanced. Rather than "bright", I'd use a combination of "honest" but "very clean".

 It stacks up extremely well to my tweaked Zero(with the same OPA module used in each). A similar sound signature, but the Compass is distinctly the better of the two. I'm hearing things with the Compass that I'd never noticed with the Zero. If I switch back to the Zero, then those details *are* there, but they are harder to notice, by a real margin at times. Where instruments have appeared in the farther regions of the soundstage with the Zero, the Compass feels like it gives a better definition of where that instrument is actually located. I've even noticed instruments beyond and in addition to where I've felt the soundstage was with the Zero.

 I've primarily been using my old OPA-Earth. I'll keep listening for a bit, then give the Moon a good chance. TBH, I'm expecting to prefer the Earth, as it works extremely well with my valved energiser.

 There are minor niggles, but not with the sound. It doesn't take anything away from the sonic performance of a tweaked Zero - the Zero is still a damned fine performer for the money, but in no aspects other than sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It is too early to tell, really, but a DIY tweaked Zero with HDAM is looking likely to cost ~$150 less than the Compass. The Compass is - IMO - worth the extra money - service is superb, build is superb, sound is superb - the entire experience is superb. Each aspect is a sizeable step from the Zero, but the _tweaked_ Zero will remain the better buy for those on a real budget, I feel. I can't honestly remember how good the Zero was in standard trim, or with the recommended opamp changes. But I can remember, very distinctly, that the improvements from switching to Audio-GD OPA modules, and using some better capacitors, represented a significant jump in performance. On that basis, a standard Zero will be comprehensively pounded by the Compass.

 The Compass is - IMO - very likely to be worth the extra cost, and my personal recommendation(not just on here, but to friends and family) would be to wait until you can afford the Compass rather than buying the Zero and modding it. It's worth every penny more(at the post-promotion price being speculated on here).

 These 'prototype' models aren't perfect. I've got a few minor niggles - but they really are minor. Absolutely none of them have anything to do with the sonic performance of the unit though.

 Kingwa appears to be a superb guy to deal with. Everything reported by members on here has been nothing but positive. This machine really does appear to have it all - it's a very solid performer, the price is keen(especially at the promotion price - it really is a no-brainer compared to the Zero at this price), shipping is fast(for some of us 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), communications are always swift and nicely answered, forgiving any translation hiccups.

 I'm very happy with it right now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not really sure, I thought he said that the Compass is less bright than the C2C but still has very high treble. Doesn't high treble mean bright in one way or another?_

 

Also, what Curra said was:

  Quote:


 The headamp is a tiny bit less bright than my C2C, somewhere in the very high treble 
 

Which means the higher ends of the treble is dimmed, not that there is high treble...

 Thanks for the review updates for those who've done it, very enlightening, and puts my heart (and wallet) at ease at making the jump.


----------



## mbd2884

I really don't know where this complaint about the treble is coming from.

 For my ears, the treble is fantastic, not shrill or high or bright.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok I got it from my neighbor ^^ couldn't call the police on him because he's chinese and its chinese new year. This thing ain't portable btw I thought my neighbor swapped a vcr for it when I opened the box. I got it to play music without blowing anything up (YES!).

 outta the box, iriver h120 optical>compass is a huge improvement over foobar ASIO>ht omega halo soundcard (with lm4562's). Sounds so smooth. I'll try out compass with foobar asio later to see if that'll significantly alter the sound quality, otherwise that's the end of my comparison of compass vs the claro halo, a computer sound card nobody here knows or cares about ^^.

 edit: oh damn, it's playing a nice violin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now i know my headphones aren't damaged, it's my sound card._

 

Not sure why you say that that. HT Omega's are popular cards, and there is always interest in the whether an external DAC is better than a SC discussion. I've been in an argument in another thread over this very subject the last few days.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Man I'm somewhat bummed...was hoping to get in a good session tonight with the Compass.....interesting comments about the SQ's thus far...keep them coming guys.

 Ah well I guess I'll have to fire up the main rig and have a low volume listen the old fashioned way (drive the wife nuts with the subwoofers). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Looks like everything thus far is positive for the most part. That's a good start.

 Peete.


----------



## 8140david

Has any one compared the Compass to the Musical Fidelity V-Dac? (I have one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 And does the company that makes the Compass make higher end Dacs?


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really don't know where this complaint about the treble is coming from.

 For my ears, the treble is fantastic, not shrill or high or bright._

 

Actually, Curra was just talking about the C2C, not Compass having much treble.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure why you say that that. HT Omega's are popular cards, and there is always interest in the whether an external DAC is better than a SC discussion. I've been in an argument in another thread over this very subject the last few days._

 

I can't really compare halo with compass because I just have lm4562's, halo needs 2 or (recommended) 4 dual opamps to be swapped and I can't afford that many hdam's for a fair comparison vs. compass. Maybe prelude+hdam vs. compass will be more forthcoming, prelude is 20x more popular than halo and some people have already tried hdam's in it with great results.


----------



## moodyrn

I have a moon hdam in my prelude, which is up for sale in the forums. I initially listed my moon as well. Now I think I'll hold on to it and get a earth hdam when I get my compass(hopefully the second batch). I was pleased with the results from switching out the lm4562 for the moon hdam.


----------



## Joeoboe

My Compass arrived today. Before I do any serious listening, I am burning it in for 24 hours with a combination of pink noise and frequency sweeps... but I DID sneak in 30 minutes of listening when I hooked it up. VERY early impressions are quite positive. On my well broken-in K701s, the sound was extremely spacious with a detailed and highly localized soundstage. That was the most noticeable improvement I heard over my Zero. It also is quite a bit more powerful. I actually like the treble presentation... smooth and detailed but not edgy. Reminds me of really good loudspeakers... if you notice the tweeters sound, it is likely something is not right. Seems to be tuned to be very musical... but of course that is using K701s. 
 So... I have some free time this weekend where I plan on doing some serious listening. I will keep all informed of my experience.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And does the company that makes the Compass make higher end Dacs?_

 

He has quite a few and supposedly very good ones.. 

Audio-GD(REIZ Audio) Parent Company


----------



## csroc

I'll add some more of my first impressions on the Compass... even though I haven't had it a day yet certain things have struck me.

Build quality is very good, and the unit looks great. I really wouldn't complain if I had to keep this one, however I can't wait for the finished version and being able to get one of those in.
I know there was some discussion about the volume and selector knobs, but seeing the unit in person I can't complain... it looks very nice.
I think the black Neutrik jack would be the only major external appearance modification that I would suggest making.
Sound quality is superb, very clean and as mentioned there is _plenty_ of power. It works beautifully with my HD650s and ATH-AD900s.
The blue LED is fantastic. Normally blue LEDs drive me nuts because they're too bright but this one is subtle and very nice.
The feet are the perfect width apart, I can perch this on top of my PC's case.
As I mentioned in a previous post the volume and selector knobs have a very nice feel and resistance to them.

 In a week I'll probably have more or less finalized on my thoughts on this but sound wise it's great. Appearance wise, aside from the Neutrik jack, it's great. The gain switch has already been addressed by Kingwa on the Audio-gd site, so I won't need to add that to my suggestions to him. 

 It's certainly big and it has a presence to say the least. It's not flashy though and on top of my big black anodized desktop case nobody would probably notice it immediately which is just fine, I don't care for things being too flashy.

 While the preamp feature isn't needed by me it certainly adds value to the unit as well so I wouldn't mind having it on the revised unit.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I posted the possible procedure we are going to adopt for testing the "burn in" theory for the Compass in the Tester group board. If the method is fine for those that have volunteered to help please speak up in that forum. If that method meets with the volunteers approval we can start. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks guys !!!

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, Curra was just talking about the C2C, not Compass having much treble._

 

I guess every time someone mentions this, there is confusion.

 What happened is this: I had a sibilance problem with my set-up with my Markl-modded Denon D5000s. I wasn't sure where the problem was. I mentioned it to Kingwa, who seems to have interpreted it (probably my fault) as me thinking the C2C is too bright. The C2C is not netural, it adds quite a bit of bass. The Markl mods on the D5000 make them, among other things, brighter. Brighter than my HD600s, if not my Stax, but then, "bright" on electrostatic headphones is different and doesn't cause the same irritation it does on dynamic cans in my experience.

 So, when the Compass arrived, I felt it was warm sounding, until it warmed up, then it sounded more neutral, but playing with the iTunes EQ, specifically the 16k slider, suggests the treble is slightly attenuated in that region. I asked Kingwa about it, and he said that because I'd found the C2C bright, he'd made the Compass slightly softer in the treble. 

 I've suggested now that the _current_ sound become the 1st soft setting, and the Compass be tuned totally neutral, which means that the final version will sound slightly brighter, with the option for the sound you hear in the test units being available via a jumper setting, for people who find the treble bright.

 Sometimes I wish I spoke Chinese, but this will all sort itself out in the end. (In case people are wondering about my forum name, I'm Australian/English and my forum name is that of an Australian bird.)


----------



## csroc

I think a slight increase in the upper treble would not hurt it any, but my main concern is that it just be as flat as Kingwa can make it. If he wants to offer jumper settings to attenuate HF output a bit then that's just fine.


----------



## Currawong

Quick note, to save more people PM'ing me:

 After only quick testing, between the 3 amps, I rate them from worst to best: 

 ST3 < Compass < C2C

 This is mainly in their ability to control headphones and deliver detail. For example, I felt that the bass in the ST3 was the sloppiest and the C2C the tightest.


----------



## ccschua

What u are hearing on the details comes from the power supply design and use of those high quality cmponent like Dale. Compass power supply is a class higher compared to the ZERO.

 This power supply also gives better dynamics and soundstaging. Try to test the Compass dynamics and soundstage. 

 Last, if u are the guys who like acoustics sound, and the acoustics reverberates, and lasting longer and deep and punchy bass, try change it with OPA SUN V2. then u will get another class higher than the Earth.


----------



## Alai

Have you ever heard the Heed? How might the Compass or C2C compare to the Heed?

 Also could you do comparisons for the DAC portion through a neutral amp?


----------



## mbd2884

Yep I agree, that was one of the biggest difference, the soundstage is by far the biggest improvement for me.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ the sound was extremely spacious with a detailed and highly localized soundstage._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also could you do comparisons for the DAC portion through a neutral amp?_

 

- I'm sure someone can do that for you, but its amusing since Kingwa's intention with the Amp on the Compass was to provide the most neutral sound possible at this price range. Course his idea of neutral may differ from yours. Can read up more on his webpage for his explanation

 CSROC are you using the equalizer when you use the AD900? I am to boost the bass a bit.


----------



## lag0a

I know this is the compass thread, but I just got my C2C headphone amp from Kingwa today. Its a pretty nice sounding piece of hardware. At first I compared my X-meridian Digital output->Opus DAC-> C2C-> Er-4S setup to the X-meridian front headphone analog output (uses opa637sm) -> Er-4S setup and it seemed almost the same with no burn in for the first setup except for the volume it seemed, but then after like 3-4 hours of burning in the Opus DAC -> C2C setup it started to shine and separate from the analog output of the sound card. There was clear separation of a softness in volume of a singer's vocal vs. the loudness in volume from instruments of all different characteristics. There is actually a soundstage with the ER-4S now too. An mp3 I use to play with a musician's guitar playing was really upfront but now it is encompassed by something like the soundstage stretched horizontally, I 'm not sure about vertically yet. I like how you can use the C2C as a hand warmer too now that the weather's cold where I live. Keep up the good work, Kingwa.


----------



## Drosera

Hm, so now we have reports of both the Compass and the C-2C getting quite warm after a while. (I presume that is because they are partially working in Class A? Is there anyone who can say more about that?) I wonder, if it's that warm on the outside, it must be really warm on the inside; wouldn't that be detrimental to the way some of the components function? Or at the very least, shorten the life-span of some components?
 If so, would it be a good idea to include ventilation holes in the future?


----------



## mbd2884

My Compass has been burning in these last 6 hours straight and when I place my hands on top, its completely cool to the touch, just barely above the temperature of my room. The bottom is slightly warmer, but not much.

 I live in MA and currently my room is on the cool side. But still, the Compass doesn't seem to have any heat issue, at least mine doesn't.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Compass has been burning in these last 6 hours straight and when I place my hands on top, its completely cool to the touch, just barely above the temperature of my room. The bottom is slightly warmer, but not much.

 I live in MA and currently my room is on the cool side. But still, the Compass doesn't seem to have any heat issue, at least mine doesn't._

 

Hey, it's 3.30 AM there! Stop listening to your Compass and go to sleep!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Good to hear that it apparently can run quite cool. Maybe it does depend on what it has to drive, yours are pretty low impedance phones I believe.


----------



## sandchak

1/27/2009 10:47 amClearance processing complete Tbilisi, Georgia
 10:36 amTransit through DHL facility Tbilisi, Georgia

 I am gonna get mine today !!.. dont know about the warmth, my Compass must have gathered quite an amount of dust traveling all over the world !

 PS. it takes 11 mins for customs clearance - One of the reasons why I love this place !!


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah I asked Kingwa to set the gain to 13db on mine and both Denon and AD900 I believe are under 45 ohm.

 If you are using Foobar2K with ASIO output, I recommend setting the volume at -20dB. For whatever reason if its at a higher volume, the volume increase on Compass isn't as smooth at lower volumes. But setting it -20dB fixes that, and sounds great.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1/27/2009 10:47 amClearance processing complete Tbilisi, Georgia
 10:36 amTransit through DHL facility Tbilisi, Georgia

 I am gonna get mine today !!.. dont know about the warmth, my Compass must have gathered quite an amount of dust traveling all over the world !

 PS. it takes 11 mins for customs clearance - One of the reasons why I love this place !!_

 

Do you have the champagne ready? Georgia seems like a good place for importing goods. Probably no chance too of any taxes or extra fees either? (Judging, from what you said earlier.)

 I already have a substantial sum in cash ready, cause there's a good chance I'll have to pay the driver (taxes, clearance fees and whatever else they can come up with). Don't know if it'll be today though, it was sent to the wrong facility in Amsterdam this morning. Sigh. The DHL-fun just keeps on coming.


----------



## mbd2884

Maybe I'm the only one who had good service from DHL?

 Although the web tracking was the worst I've seen. But I got to work yesterday and called DHL at 8 to explain that I needed to have shipping address changed from home to work. It arrived at work same day at 2 p.m. Not bad.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have the champagne ready? Georgia seems like a good place for importing goods. Probably no chance too of any taxes or extra fees either? (Judging, from what you said earlier.)

 I already have a substantial sum in cash ready, cause there's a good chance I'll have to pay the driver (taxes, clearance fees and whatever else they can come up with). Don't know if it'll be today though, it was sent to the wrong facility in Amsterdam this morning. Sigh. The DHL-fun just keeps on coming. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Not much champagne at this place, but wine galore ! its believed that this place is the birth place of wine (debatable as power cords make a difference !).. in fact my wife's uncle has a vineyard so theres not just bottles but barrels at home !!

 Anyway, I really hope your compass reaches you soon..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not much champagne at this place, but wine galore ! its believed that this place is the birth place of wine (debatable as power cords make a difference !).. in fact my wife's uncle has a vineyard so theres not just bottles but barrels at home !!_

 

No, I think this claim has more validity. See here for example. I'm intrigued, I would like to try some Georgian wine. I've never seen it for sale here. The most 'Eastern' wine here comes from Bulgaria, but I really wouldn't recommend it.

 Oops, am I going OT again?


----------



## sandchak

Yeah I just checked myself, and Wikipedia confirms that fact going back to 6000 - 8000 BC.. I have no idea about Bulgarian wine, but out here its phenomenal, and I just dont mean those that come in bottles, but also the homemade stuff..

 Ok better stick to Compass out here, maybe I can do something like Tyson has done with Scotch !..

 PS. thanks for the link..


----------



## mbd2884

Not sure if I'm wrong or not.

 But just looking at the internals of KECES 152 and the Compass, and reading the Ebay descriptions of the 151 and 152, there are many considerable differences.

 First off just looking inside, the KECES 152 looks like, umm where is everything? I just see a whole lot of empty space. Compass its, sweet, I get a sense that everything that was specified is in fact in the box. I can look and be like, oh there is the power supply, that must be the DAC, oh there is the 2702 and AD1852, oh I see the Opamp, that must be Amp, sweet. KECES is, I'm so confused, where is it? Now reasons why KECES looks so bare in comparison to the Compass is explained below.

 Compass power source a hell lot more complex. Is that better? Not sure.

 Compass uses modular design. The KECES 152 AMP and DAC on the same board, and I can't tell where the DAC ends and the AMP begins. Very confusing to look at, cause even in portable DAC/AMP like the Pico have modular design separating the AMP from the DAC. KECES design of the DAC/AMP on one board is unique, and personally I find it annoying to look at. Now my last statement there was completely my own feelings of the design, has nothing to do with if its a bad design or not. 

 The DAC in the KECES 151 and 152 uses the Burr Brown 2707, which is nothing special at all considering any good USB DAC uses it. Difference is Compass only uses 2707 as a USB input, and converts to the AD1852 by I2S, and from all accounts the AD1852 combined with Kingwa's design supposed to be fantastic. And from just the last month of reading Head-Fi and other comparisons of DAC, the AD1852 is superior to the 2707. Even the DAC on Compass seems to be technically superior. Sound wise is it better? Cannot say, just looking at the specs and images. What is I2S you ask? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%C2%B2S

 KECES 152 uses an Opamp in their DAC also. They use National Semiconductor LME49710: http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LME49710.pdf. Finding a review of this Opamp is quite difficult, I gave up. And the Opamp is not discrete. Compass uses Audio-dg Moon Opamp by default with choices of Earth and Sun, all of em are discrete and very much highly acclaimed by consumers and other manufacturers.

 Lastly but not least Compass is fully discrete, the Amp completely with no Opamp. The Opamp is placed in the DAC, not sure what that does, but the Opamp is fully discrete also. Looking at the KECES, it seems impossible that the Amp be discrete. The Amp consists of National Semi's new LME49600 power buffer chip with a customized amp circuit, emphasis on the customized. Does this mean Kingwa's design is superior, I have no idea. But I sure like that Compass is of Kingwa's and Audio-dg's design from start to finish, all the way through, nothing skipped.

 So in terms of workmanship, the Compass from start to finish is of Kingwa's design and uses Audio-dg technology. Its pretty much all kept in house except for the Burr Brown DAC and AD1852 chips. Everything is discrete design whereas the KECES a very much a minimalist design. With a description like "Updated DA-151 circuit, with 100% DC circuit and no capacitor in signal path to further improve the frequency extension of both ends, even more details than before. (No DC servos either, in case you are wondering.)," KECES believes less is more? I don't know.

 And if Maniac or other KECES fanboys don't like my portrayal of the KECES 152, not my problem, this is all from KECES description of the 151 and 152, and well the images that have been posted of the internals.

 When you put all this together with Compass versatility as a DAC, AMP, DAC/AMP combo, Pre-Amp and numerous inputs, Compass overall seems a much better value for your money. And because Compass is discrete, and is of Audio-dg design all the way through, one would assume there was for more control in retaining a neutral accurate sound reproduction. 

 So now we just have to wait for some listening comparisons of the two. I look forward to it. Discrete 100% Audio-dg Design vs Minimalist non-discrete KECES customized design.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What u are hearing on the details comes from the power supply design and use of those high quality cmponent like Dale. Compass power supply is a class higher compared to the ZERO.

 This power supply also gives better dynamics and soundstaging. Try to test the Compass dynamics and soundstage. 

 Last, if u are the guys who like acoustics sound, and the acoustics reverberates, and lasting longer and deep and punchy bass, try change it with OPA SUN V2. then u will get another class higher than the Earth._

 

Yes, this is the main difference between the 3 amps, the power circuit. I've learned in the last year how important this is for an amp. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm, so now we have reports of both the Compass and the C-2C getting quite warm after a while. (I presume that is because they are partially working in Class A? Is there anyone who can say more about that?) I wonder, if it's that warm on the outside, it must be really warm on the inside; wouldn't that be detrimental to the way some of the components function? Or at the very least, shorten the life-span of some components?
 If so, would it be a good idea to include ventilation holes in the future?_

 

Wont need it. The voltage regulators are in contact with the bottom of the chassis to dissipate heat. I've left my gear on 24/7 with no problems. Even in Summer it shouldn't matter if they get quite warm, even if the components get too hot to touch.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wont need it. The voltage regulators are in contact with the bottom of the chassis to dissipate heat. I've left my gear on 24/7 with no problems. Even in Summer it shouldn't matter if they get quite warm, even if the components get too hot to touch._

 

Well, my point was not whether it would break down because of the heat. I trust it won't, Kingwa is an experienced designer and has let the unit run continuously for a 100 hours before shipping it.
 I just wondered if some components might work better, or live longer, if the temperature inside the enclosure was lower. I don't have the electrotechnical knowhow to answer this myself. I do assume it's not of the utmost importance, otherwise every amplifier would come supplied with a built-in fan.


----------



## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Compass power source a hell lot more complex. Is that better? Not sure._

 

More complex power supplies are better if only the circuit makes sense. Can't comment as I don't know the one in Compass.
  Quote:


 The DAC in the KECES 151 and 152 uses the Burr Brown 2702, which is nothing special at all considering any good USB DAC uses it. 
 

Show me a better USB DAC. 
  Quote:


 Difference is Compass only uses 2702 as a USB input, and converts to the AD1852 by I2S 
 

Do you think it's the ultimate USB solution? I don't. It's pretty budgetary idea as the whole Compass DAC. Be happy Kingwa didn't use UDA1321 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


 and from all accounts the AD1852 combined with Kingwa's design supposed to be fantastic. 
 

AD1852 is a 1-bit, mid-grade DAC competing with the PCM1716 which you can find in the Beresford TC7510.
  Quote:


 Even the DAC on Compass seems to be technically superior. 
 

And it's the opposite.
  Quote:


 Sound wise is it better? Cannot say, just looking at the specs and images. 
 

I'd appreciate a sonic comparison from you as the tech comments are misleading at best so far. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


 KECES 152 uses an Opamp in their DAC also. They use National Semiconductor LME49710: http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LME49710.pdf. And the Opamp is not discrete. 
 

What a shame! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


 Compass uses Audio-dg Moon Opamp by default with choices of Earth and Sun, all of em are discrete and very much highly acclaimed by consumers and other manufacturers. 
 

Statistics mean nothing. 90% of population don't distinguish mp3 from lossless, partly due to the equipment they use. The Moon is probably the worst HDAM and the Sun v.2 is the only complete sounding - with at least 15V rails and grounded. 
  Quote:


 Lastly but not least Compass is fully discrete, the Amp completely with no Opamp. 
 

The problem is that Compass is op-amp based just discrete. Discrete makes more sense when it has got no global feedback architecture. Refer to the AudioNemesis DC-1 or Yamamoto DAC.
  Quote:


 So in terms of workmanship, the Compass from start to finish is of Kingwa's design and uses *Audio-dg technology*. 
 

Do you know any details of this unique technology?
  Quote:


 Everything is discrete design whereas the KECES seems to be a lot well, not their design. 
 

Please, there is a lot of op-amp schematics that you can find in datasheets and copy as discrete. Kingwa actually did some tweaks to the schematics impossible to be done integrated but on the other hand, the best integrated op-amps are still on top of the league.
  Quote:


 So now we just have to wait for some audible differences in a comparison. 
 

Yes, indeed.


----------



## mbd2884

Hehe, I knew a fanboy would get mad. But I personally don't see anywhere from the descriptions listed by KECES using the PCM1716, so why you even mentioned it is completely stupid, no point. 

 Asking better than 2707, What? They both us it, just Compass uses I2S to AD1852.

 And its nice to know you have such dislike of the Audio-dg Opamps. And well, too be honest your reviews of the Opamps are your opinions. Interesting read, but not definitive, just your opinions. 

 You think I care even a little about the Beresford TC7510? Its a comparison of the Compass to KECES 152, why you even mentioned that is beyond me. Pretty lame. And its no secret you are a Beresford TC7510 fanboy, its quite known that you are on other forums as well, from people who disagree with your opinions of this DAC. Again, its your opinion, good grief.

 And then you continue to compare the Compass to other units, what a way to be a ********* there. Its a comparison between Compass and KECES 152, Not the DC-1 or Yamamoto DAC, so again, no point, completely stupid.

 And BTW audiophiles can't distinguish between a 192+ MP3 and Lossless either, so again another completely stupid statement, double blind tests proven it over and over and over, and well over again.


----------



## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehe, I knew a fanboy would get mad. But I personally don't see anywhere from the descriptions listed by KECES using the PCM1716, so why you even mentioned it is completely stupid, no point. _

 

I mentioned because the PCM179x family used in the KECES is higher grade than the PCM1716, competes with the AD1955 actually. You're fooling people the AD1852 is a better DAC.
  Quote:


 Asking better than 2707, What? They both us it, just Compass uses I2S to AD1852. 
 

Corrected. Keep it PCM2702 for instance
  Quote:


 And then you continue to compare the Compass to far more expensive amps, what a way to be a ********* there. 
 

It was to show you were discrete stages are properly done and make sense.
  Quote:


 Its a comparison between Compass and KECES 152, Not the DC-1 or Yamamoto DAC, so again, no point, completely stupid. 
 

This thread title says nothing it is a comparison to the KECES neither you did a single thing besides reading specs to compare them. It's pointless. Calm down in the meanwhile.


----------



## mbd2884

Holysmokes, you responded to my post which was a comparison of the KECES to the Compass. Sorry to throw an insult, but how dense are you?

 Again, my comparison was based on KECES description, nowhere in their description do they mention this PCM179x, and again they are your opinions. You are the definition of fanboy, but that's ok, makes for interesting read. So if they do use this supposed incredible godly PCM179x, you should ask KECES to write it down int heir description of the 152 and 151 then

 Why you think using the 2707 straight is so superior is your opinion. Cause its obvious many DAC designers disagree with you, there are other DACs I've seen listed using the 2702 and I2S to a different DAC. But yes, you are smarter than all of them, you should go tell them they are idiots.

 And repeat, I don't care about comparing the Compass to other DACs or Amps, only care about how the Compass stacks up to its competitors, DAC/AMP combos. So again, stupid, lame and well no point from my vantage point.

 The differences I noted in Comparing between the Compass and KECES 152 are real, factual (with information KECES has released of their product), that's the way it is. Compass is designed I had stated, KECES designed as I stated, no where am I talking about superior design, just pointing out the differences before a listening comparison can be made. I repeatedly emphasized that I was not stating one was superior design the the other. I will agree that my tone in the description leans towards the Compass, but that's only cause I'm enjoying the Compass right now. Sorry I'm human.

 And why you think stating your opinion makes it definitive is beyond me. They are your opinions, great and yet, who cares. Good for read, helps people make decisions, but don't fool yourself in thinking that they are fact and definitive.

 And the description given by Kingwa stating that Compass Amp is completely discrete, well I don't think you can argue with that. It is in fact, with no Opamp or circuit design, which is where I made the most emphasis on discrete design between the Compass and KECES. Either way you can't argue that the Compass is in fact a discrete design, whether its to your liking or not, doesn't matter, fact is, its discrete.

 And me calm down? You tear up my comparison as if implying I was trying to say the Compass was superior design which I stated I was not making that distinction. And then you go on to tear it up comparing it other products and other DACs and Opamps which had nothing to do with my comparison, completely irrelevant. That's called being a ********* in my book. Your response did not seem very calm either or trying to be helpful or informative, but an attempt to make me look stupid and shoot down my observation in comparing these two products.


----------



## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holysmokes, you responded to my post which was a comparison of the KECES to the Compass. Sorry to throw an insult, but how dense are you?_

 

And I responded. 
  Quote:


 Again, my comparison was based on KECES description, nowhere in their description do they mention this PCM179x, and again they are your opinions. 
 

Search more thoroughly to find out what DACs they use.
  Quote:


 You are the definition of fanboy 
 

Fanboy of what? It looks like you're a fanboy of discrete with no technical basis, just a raving enthusiasm about them, and you don't help Kingwa this way. That's why I reacted at your posts not containing a grain of criticism. Let's keep forum at the level of discussion, not advertisements.
  Quote:


 Why you think using the 2707... 
 

The post has been edited.
  Quote:


 And repeat, I don't care about comparing the Compass to other DACs or Amps, only care about how the Compass stacks up to its competitors, DAC/AMP combos. 
 

So let's prepare a list of price/feature-wise competitors. You have Beresford, Yulong, Zero, Zhaolu, KECES, Valab...
  Quote:


 So again, stupid, lame and well no point from my vantage point. 
 

I can't help you in understanding. You have to work it out for yourself drinking melissa in the meanwhile.
  Quote:


 The differences I noted in Comparing between the Compass and KECES 152 are real, factual, that's the way it is. Compass is designed I had stated, KECES designed as I stated, no where am I talking about superior design, just pointing out the differences before a listening comparison can be made. 
 

OK but your comments saying what technology is superior were ridiculous. Have you ever compared top notch integrared devices to top notch discrete designs? No, so don't fool people until you find out.
  Quote:


 And why you think stating your opinion makes it definitive is beyond me. They are your opinions, great and yet, who cares. Good for read, helps people make decisions, but don't fool yourself in thinking that they are fact and definitive. 
 

My opinions are my experience and I share it. Would like to read other proven opinions especially when they are different but no speculations please. This forum is full of them.
  Quote:


 And the description given by Kingwa stating that Compass Amp is completely discrete, well I don't think you can argue with that. It is in fact, with no Opamp or circuit design, which is where I made the most emphasis on discrete design between the Compass and KECES. 
 

I didn't even try to comment it. Thumbs up for Kingwa!


----------



## mbd2884

I was not being a fanboy at all, I pointed out the differences between the KECES and the Compass. You're the one who is acting like as if I just shoved a stick right up your butt. 

 And no I won't do more research on the KECES 152 as I clearly stated in my comparison, that it was based on the images provided and descriptions provided by KECES. Although I do find it curious they would go the length to mention the 2707 and the Opamp and buffer used in the 152, but forget to mention the other DAC you keep raving about.

 I'm done, you obviously had an agenda, you succeeded, good for you. Which doesn't change the fact, that my comparison of the two products remain accurate based on the information provided by Kingwa and KECES. If KECES chooses to not disclose fully as Kingwa has, that's their problem and not mine. I clearly stated that the opinions I stated in my comparison are my opinions and not fact. Others who read my post hopefully can understand that which seemed to have escaped you. Also I'm sure others who read it will discern that I am not an engineer and will take my comparison as it is, and nothing more.


----------



## majkel

I'm not a fanboy of any certain DAC. Now I'm using the CS4397, looking forward to something from Sabre, still curious of Wolfsons, etc.

 That's OK you're not an engineer and I pointed the statements I didn't agree with as the engineer. It was no intended personal offense. Getting calm helps both of us and let the hobby unite.


----------



## mbd2884

And I still standby my original post of the comparison of the KECES and Compass as being truthful, while tonally enthusiastic about my new Compass.

 I carefully made sure its noted that I was not saying Kingwa's design was superior, and but clearly demonstrated that even though price wise and as entry level mid-fi DAC/AMP these two will likely be competitors, they are vastly different in design.

 Why you went on to include other DACs, Opamps, other units still escapes me. And reading over your responses I still get the sense you had an agenda. 

 As far as I'm concerned, the Compass was a project initiated by those looking for an alternative to a the Zero for an affordable, yet quality DAC/AMP for those of us who want some versatility and choices in the future if we decide to get a dedicated DAC or AMP or just use Compass as a Pre-Amp. 

 As far as I'm concerned this thread has been very enjoyable in discussing about an entry level mid-fi unit and we all here understand that. And we are interested in how Compass will hold up against the current mid-fi entry level units. 

 So yes, when you come in responding to my comparison of these two mid-fi entry level dac/amp combos, throwing out other DAC, Opamp, and other irrelevant DAC, Amps which are not entry level, Mid-Fi or DAC/AMP combos, I take that as having an agenda.


----------



## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I take that as having an agenda._

 

Sorry but it sounds obsessive. Do you see spies and hidden competitors all the time around you? You don't have to believe my claims and I don't care what you agree with and what you don't. People will decide whose comments are valuable, I just added my point of view.


----------



## haloxt

Can anyone else compare the AD797BRZ and the AD797AN and verify majkel's opinion that the BRZ is superior? majkel does rank the hdam's quite well with most high-end IC opamps, believably in harmony with other people's reviews, but until we can prove or disprove the sq of AD797BRZ it is not fair to just call majkel's review an opinion, because its actually all we know about the AD797BRZ .

 What ASIO settings you guys use with ASIO4ALL+foobar ASIO (im using otachan's)? Reading the manual now but it's owning me. I got it to work but want to know what are optimal settings.


----------



## Drosera

Aaaaaaaaargh!
 DHL has just sent my Compass to the wrong facility..._again_!! That's twice in one day! Really, how difficult can it be? The address is completely correct and The Netherlands is hardly a big place.

 Incompetence, thy name is DHL.

 I think, next time I order something from Audio-Gd, I'm gonna pay Kingwa extra just so he can ship it with a different courier service.

 Actually, even if it manages, eventually, to find its way to the correct distribution facility, that still might not be the end of my problems. Because, as I recently found out, sometimes the delivery man's satnav can't seem to find my house...


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And I still standby my original post of the comparison of the KECES and Compass [...]_


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




_

 

LOL! (I needed that.)


----------



## K3cT

There's always the PM feature for this kind of arguments.


----------



## haloxt

mbd2884 did say it was just a paper specs comparison so no need to construe he means the KECES is not as good.


----------



## mbd2884

Considering how much international shipment business they do, you'd think they would have this well oiled and ready to rock. Just smooth, no problems get it to you fast. Especially since it was shipped Express purposely so it would reach you quickly. Man feel bad for you, missing out on some fun.

 Lets hope Sandchak gets his.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aaaaaaaaargh!
 DHL has just sent my Compass to the wrong facility...again!! That's twice in one day! Really, how difficult can it be? The address is completely correct and The Netherlands is hardly a big place.

 Incompetence, thy name is DHL.

 I think, next time I order something from Audio-Gd, I'm gonna pay Kingwa extra just so he can ship it with a different courier service.

 Actually, even if it manages, eventually, to find its way to the correct distribution facility, that still might not be the end of my problems. Because, as I recently found out, sometimes the delivery man's satnav can't seem to find my house..._


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Considering how much international shipment business they do, you'd think they would have this well oiled and ready to rock. Just smooth, no problems get it to you fast. Especially since it was shipped Express purposely so it would reach you quickly. Man feel bad for you, missing out on some fun._

 

Nah, it ain't that bad. I'm actually laughing, because of the hilarious absurdity of this. It travelled more than 9000 kilometers in one day and hasn't managed to bridge those last 75 remaining kilometers since Friday.


----------



## mbd2884

That and DHL has taken some weird routes. Wasn't there a post saying Compass was sent to Germany, then UK, and now going through Turkey to get to Georgia?


----------



## haloxt

Maybe they're smuggling illegal goods along with your compass ^_^


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CSROC are you using the equalizer when you use the AD900? I am to boost the bass a bit._

 

Depends on what I'm listening to but I have been tinkering with the EQ a bit. A bit of bass boost works very well with the AD900s, I use it often when i have those connected to my NAD.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are using Foobar2K with ASIO output, I recommend setting the volume at -20dB. For whatever reason if its at a higher volume, the volume increase on Compass isn't as smooth at lower volumes. But setting it -20dB fixes that, and sounds great._

 

Pretty common thing with a lot of volume pots apparently. I've noticed it as well.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm, so now we have reports of both the Compass and the C-2C getting quite warm after a while. (I presume that is because they are partially working in Class A? Is there anyone who can say more about that?) I wonder, if it's that warm on the outside, it must be really warm on the inside; wouldn't that be detrimental to the way some of the components function? Or at the very least, shorten the life-span of some components?
 If so, would it be a good idea to include ventilation holes in the future?_

 

I had looked at the pix before it shipped and noted I couldn't see any case vents. My surmise was, Hmmm this thing must run pretty cool, which is not the case with the Zero. Does it have any vents? If not, sounds like it needs them.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lets hope Sandchak gets his._

 

Yes yes, I got it, in fact they said 7pm delivery, but me at 2pm couldn't take that, its only 10 mins walk, so I brought my baby home in my arms..

 I got my entire package with Kingwa - power cables, jitter clock, Interconnects, all 3 HDAMS - I need a couple of days off..

 Well, I haven't set it up as yet, all I can say from the physical point of view its built like a tank, some light does pass through some little gaps here and there, but who cares, might as well act as ventilators! I am not looking at the letterings and calligraphy because I don't need them, I am not looking at the stuff when I listen to music.. I don't know if anyone has experienced, but in my Compass the rotary selector knob it has 4 clicks instead of 3 (USB COAX OPT + 1???..) maybe an extra feature for the future..

 I have just turned it on and connected it to my main audio rig, I want to check out the DAC section compared to my CD17..

 I do not think I can wait for reviews to buy a headphone - I am scampering !!

 From the outside, impressive and for the price (promotional) - very impressive.


----------



## csroc

My rotary selector has 4 clicks as well, one extra one to the left of USB.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My rotary selector has 4 clicks as well, one extra one to the left of USB._

 

Exactly.. but then i guess Kingwas products are mostly upgradable.. so maybe something for the future..


----------



## mbd2884

Cool. Please write soon as to whether the upgrade power cable produces noticeable audible changes compared to the regular stock power cable.

 Thanks

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes yes, I got it, in fact they said 7pm delivery, but me at 2pm couldn't take that, its only 10 mins walk, so I brought my baby home in my arms..

 I got my entire package with Kingwa - power cables, jitter clock, Interconnects, all 3 HDAMS - I need a couple of days off..

 Well, I haven't set it up as yet, all I can say from the physical point of view its built like a tank, some light does pass through some little gaps here and there, but who cares, might as well act as ventilators! I am not looking at the letterings and calligraphy because I don't need them, I am not looking at the stuff when I listen to music.. I don't know if anyone has experienced, but in my Compass the rotary selector knob it has 4 clicks instead of 3 (USB COAX OPT + 1???..) maybe an extra feature for the future..

 I have just turned it on and connected it to my main audio rig, I want to check out the DAC section compared to my CD17..

 I do not think I can wait for reviews to buy a headphone - I am scampering !!

 From the outside, impressive and for the price (promotional) - very impressive._


----------



## haloxt

The compass is warm, especially the bottom. I'd like to leave the top open but I'd probably drop something inside and blow it up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. If people are saying different things about how warm it gets (especially a difference between 220v and 110v) maybe there's something wrong. In Tyson's review he said something was extremely hot until he tinkered the bias.

  Quote:


 So, I get it all installed into my system, all hooked up together, and it starts making beautiful music, right? Nope. Not even close. First, the 0db modules are running incredibly hot. Far, far hotter than they should be. And I'm getting very distorted sound out of my 40's. After some panic, I arrange to have the amps tested by a friend locally, and Kingwa provided full schematics. After opening it up and measuring it, Mike (mgalusha), confirmed his initial suspicion – that the bias was off. Now, resetting the bias might seem like an easy thing to do, and on a non-balanced amp that might be true. But on a fully balanced amp, it's a slow, iterative process. Luckily Mike is extremely good, and after quite a bit of time and effort, we got the bias set properly and the DC offset at extremely low levels. I've thanked him many times, but I will say it again – Thank You, Mike!

 Get everything back home and hooked up again – amps don't run nearly as hot anymore


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly.. but then i guess Kingwas products are mostly upgradable.. so maybe something for the future..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Maybe. I wonder if the revised versions will have a 3 position switch.

 Can't say I've noticed mine running particularly hot but I'll check next time I've had it on for a bit.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool. Please write soon as to whether the upgrade power cable produces noticeable audible changes compared to the regular stock power cable.

 Thanks_

 

Yes sure, the problem being I forgot to tell Kingwa to add a schuko plug instead the normal plug he sells his cords with (see his website), so like I will have to find a good schuko (think I have one somewhere..), I also bought from him bare cord without plugs, so I'll do get that one fixed first.

 In any case, I want to hear with the stock cables first for a while before I switch to Kingwas cables, problem again since I would be checking only the DAC section through my main rig speakers (till my HP arrive), I will need some quiet time ( hard to get with my two boys around..) - maybe tonight.. Also I will remove my Dezorel line conditioner and connect straight to the wall outlet..

 I have very little experience with headphones and I find my speakers more revealing ( specially when it comes to imaging ), whatever I find will be based on what I heard through my speakers and and not HP..

  Quote:


 The compass is warm, especially the bottom. I'd like to leave the top open but I'd probably drop something inside and blow it up . If people are saying different things about how warm it gets (especially a difference between 220v and 110v) maybe there's something wrong. In Tyson's review he said something was extremely hot until he tinkered the bias. 
 

I do not think there is much to worry about, I had the shanling PH100 before this, and it used to get real hot (maybe this has to do with Class A design) and also my first AMP Musical Fidelity A1 used to get so Hot that I felt I could fry eggs on it - again in Class A mode (50-60 degree centigrade).. but then always good to check with Kingwa..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sigh......seems my Compass is going to spend a third day in Customs.....

 Something stinks.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

Yeah it's probably normal for it to be slightly warm, but if anyone observes the compass is not warm plus they have the 220v model, it might lend some credence to the theory (just a theory) that appears in Tyson's review thread, that the bias might've been off due to the 220v-to-110v converter utilized to make 110v equipment.

 Currawong, how does the "edible-looking" optical cable compare with the optocoupler? Also, do different usb cables have different sq? I been comparing asio>usb(cable i hijacked from a video camera)>compass vs. iriver h120 digital out>compass and the second option sounds a bit better. Considering the hatchet job I did on ASIO4ALL and the 3 blue screens of death I got in the past hour, I think I have ASIO set up wrong (vista is using me, btw).

 I have to say, DHL takes stolen stuff pretty seriously. I got like ten calls yesterday and today about it (from multiple paranoid dhl employees) and when I drove to my neighbor (who wasn't home) to pick it up the DHL driver appeared at the same time and tried to settle things responsibly by telling me to go home and they'll deliver it 200 feet when my neighbor came home. I got a few paranoid phonecalls because they didn't get my email saying I picked it up from my neighbor heh heh heh, I scared them back good ^^.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sigh......seems my Compass is going to spend a third day in Customs.....

 Something stinks.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Hmmmm, time to make a call, methinks.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Already made 2...1 today and 1 yesterday...DHL can't do a thing until Canada Custom's release's the shipment.

 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

Damn its too bad that one of the main reviewers that we are all waiting for his impressions, Peete that you would be one to succumb to DHL woes. That and its ironic that Sandchak the first to send a payment and one of the last to receive. 

 Also too bad considering as I posted before that I had a really good experience with DHL.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"edible-looking" optical cable compare with the optocoupler?_

 

edible looking? Sounds tasty! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Considering the hatchet job I did on ASIO4ALL and the 3 blue screens of death I got in the past hour, I think I have ASIO set up wrong (vista is using me, btw). 
 

I was setting up ASIO4ALL last night on Vista 64. I'd never set up or used it before although I've read that Vista stock supposedly is a better performer than XP and close to XP with ASIO4ALL. 

 Either way I wanted to play around with it. I couldn't find Otachan's Foobar plugin so I used something else, but I also installed Otachan's Winamp plugin. So far both seem to be working, no bluescreens or any other things (haven't restarted yet although ASIO4ALL install asked me to). It's fun juggling three audio outputs since I also have my onboard sound active and set to output different things via the front and rear audio connections on my computer.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

DHL isn't the problem...it's Canada Customs.

 I've had nothing but great service from DHL and this incident doesn't reflect on them IMO. They have been apologizing left right and center the last 2 days. The DHL customer service rep yesterday even called the Custom's office to ask what the hold up was...they didn't answer the phone (which is typical).

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

I'll admit I have had few experiences with DHL but those that I've had have always been smooth.


----------



## Sganzerla

Hopefully I'll get my Compass today. I asked DHL where my product is and was said better phone again later, when it probably will be at their central office (I don't know the words in English to this) so maybe I can pickup. At worse tomorrow will be with me.
 Good news is that taxes are 60% of what I previewed.


----------



## haloxt

Otachan stopped making foobar plug-ins because when foobar v0.9 came out it made it hard to make plug-ins and he got ticked. If you really want it on foobar you have to use foobar 0.8, google "Otachan asio builds". Hmm maybe I'll try the winamp one, it's likely better.


----------



## mbd2884

I use the foo_out_asio plugin which was updated by Canar. Haven't had any problems, works with ASIO4All
 - Windows XP


----------



## direcow

why not use wasapi instead of asio for vista? foobar has a plugin for that...


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why not use wasapi instead of asio for vista? foobar has a plugin for that..._

 

Seconded. Less hassle than setting up Asio4All.


----------



## haloxt

I've had a nightmare of a time changing software stuff to try to get my ht omega halo to sound best, whether it is because of halo's native software not being up to par or simply the nature of audio playback, all the different wasapi/asio/ks options give me different sound quality. I'd like to see if anyone reports a difference between wasapi/asio/ks and between different players with the compass. I just compared compass with otachan asio and wavelab asio and god, wavelab asio sounds so nice :] too bad it's not a media player and can't play flac.


----------



## K3cT

Umm... all of them are a form of bit-perfect output meaning that you should not notice any discernible sound because the software is just feeding raw data to your DAC.


----------



## haloxt

foo_output_asio(dll)_0.51.7 is the one I'm using, it's better than v0.9.3's asio imo.

 quote from ASIO builds 2.0

  Quote:


 There is a lot of discussion about how to eliminate jitter in digital audio. PC Audio seems to be the most flexible way to play digital audio, and Foobar 0.8.3 the player with less jitter. ASIO (Audio stream input output) is a protocol for low-latency digital audio specified by Steinberg which provides an interface between Foobar and the soundcard. The asio output plugin builds implement that protocol, but they can sound very different. The goal of the new ASIO builds is to improve balance with Steinberg WaveLab 4.0c as reference. 
 

been doing some comparison of wavelab asio+usb and my iriver optical out and wavelab sounds more dynamic, but it doesn't play flac :[.

 how do you guys think kingwa did the 100 burn-in, which input? that might affect our comparisons of different inputs.


----------



## mbd2884

Hey thanks a lot for this link. Look forward to installing this tonight!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_foo_output_asio(dll)_0.51.7 is the one I'm using, it's better than v0.9.3's asio imo.

 quote from ASIO builds 2.0



 been doing some comparison of wavelab asio+usb and my iriver optical out and wavelab sounds more dynamic, but it doesn't play flac :[.

 how do you guys think kingwa did the 100 burn-in, which input? that might affect our comparisons of different inputs._


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It'll have no bearing whatsoever haloxt. Just keep listening and enjoy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Does your SC driver set have a native ASIO driver ? The Auzen Prelude does (Creative Source code I think) ......I don't even bother with a Foobar ASIO plug in...just use the Auzen API.

 Works great. No issues at all. No pops,ticks distortion whatsoever...have the vol maxed. The moral of this story being...check your SC drivers or install the latest set for your card...native ASIO support might be there.

 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

Prelude has ASIO that doesn't require ASIO plug-ins? Geez, now I know why everyone gets prelude over halo ^^. At the rate my sound card company is updating its driver we'll get that function in 50 years.


----------



## lag0a

For foobar 0.9.6.1 that I'm using, I can't see C-media ASIO using X-meridian as my SC so I have to use Asio4all for it, but in winamp I can see it so I use C-media ASIO and I don't know if its my ears but winamp sounds better with C-media ASIO since its native it seems. Any suggestions to try and make foobar see C-media ASIO?


----------



## haloxt

You have to download the foo_out_asio.dll file at foobar2000: Download foobar2000 and optional components and put it in programs>foobar2000>components. That's all I needed to do to get foobar to allow c-media asio.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The compass is warm, especially the bottom. I'd like to leave the top open but I'd probably drop something inside and blow it up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. If people are saying different things about how warm it gets (especially a difference between 220v and 110v) maybe there's something wrong. In Tyson's review he said something was extremely hot until he tinkered the bias._

 

Maybe you could borrow an Infrared thermometer. It's difficult otherwise to know what warm means.


----------



## lag0a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have to download the foo_out_asio.dll file at foobar2000: Download foobar2000 and optional components and put it in programs>foobar2000>components. That's all I needed to do to get foobar to allow c-media asio._

 

Cool, thanks. I didn't know Asio4all overwrites C-media ASIO or maybe you can switch between it somewhere in configure. Wow, now foobar with C-media ASIO gives me new levels of clarity not heard before. Software can make that much a difference?


----------



## AudioPhewl

My Compass, running on 230v(though UK mains is still typically around 240v), gets warm. It is by no means hot - it's cooler than a Zero, and noticeably so. The baseplate does get warmer than the top, but again, it's by no means "hot".

 Both are cooler than the typical heat of a cup of tea/coffee than an average person would consider a drinkable temperature. My room is currently 19.3C.

 Keep in mind that it has no ventilation to the outside world. The biggest producers of heat are directly bolted to the baseplate - it is the heatsink. The Zero would produce some scorching-hot heatsinks, and a very warm case. The Compass doesn't get scorching hot, and uses the whole case to conduct the heat away.

 Still loving the sound! Have used the OPA-Moon exclusively tonight... it's a nice sounding little thing. I do tend to think I prefer the neutral balance of the Earth, though...

 Not loving how far off-topic aspects of this thread have gone! Was amusing to watch the argument though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## csroc

I've had mine running for a couple hours at the moment with the AD900s connected, the bottom is about 95-96F, the top 88-90F. Warm, but I wouldn't consider it hot. My NAD amplifier gets to about the same, or a bit warmer if I've had it cranking for a while. It's probably about 72 or 73F in my room now. I should note that I also have this sitting on top of my desktop computer which sits in the corner of my room so that hole area is a little bit warmer than the rest of the room even without the compass thanks to the heat the computer pumps out.

 edit: I'm not sure how much warmer my computer makes that part of my room, but for comparison the wall (an interior wall) which is about 6 inches away from the exhaust on the side of the case is about 81F, other interior walls are around 73F.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

These temps are fine.....you ought to feel how hot my tube amp gets...( 8 x EL34 + 2 6SN7GT + 2 12AT7's ) Much warmer than the Zero or the Compass ....(that big Aluminum bottom plate will take care of any heat the V regs produce, not to worry folks). 

 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah I reverted back to the latest version, the old version with ASIO was just being a pain. Newest version is easy to deal with. Have the setting for thread priority in playback at 7, should do the same thing I hope.

 I would like to add, that my Compass is still cool to the touch. Not warm, cool on top. Its slightly warmer on the bottom.


----------



## lag0a

Maybe the enclosure design is to keep dust and moisture from entering and its not all that hot everywhere on the bottom, it seems only in a specific area near the power switch where the voltage regulars or whatever are that are attached to the bottom of the plate as curra mentioned.


----------



## csroc

Seems it's a couple degrees warmer than it was when I last checked. So are the walls of the room though. Having my computer and whatnot on, as well as my NAD amp and the Compass has a bit of an effect on room temps


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These temps are fine.....you ought to feel how hot my tube amp gets...( 8 x EL34 + 2 6SN7GT + 2 12AT7's ) Much warmer than the Zero or the Compass ....(that big Aluminum bottom plate will take care of any heat the V regs produce, not to worry folks). 

 Peete._

 

You know it!!

http://www.turbonet.biz/misc/337seReview/AAA_1454.JPG

http://www.turbonet.biz/misc/337seReview/AAA_1455.JPG


 .


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<snip>

 My views on burn-in... contradict much of those from members on here. I've heard the difference between capacitors in the signal path - burn in does happen here, IMO. But semiconductors - transistors, opamps, etc... I have never found any audible evidence of "burn-in". There is - really is - a difference to me between cold and hot equipment, but I am unable to find any difference between a opamp with 1000+ hours of use, and one fresh out of the packet(once both are up to temperature). I can also understand why there can be a difference between new and used with electromagnetic headphones.

 IMO, "burn-in" is a myth for the most part(aside from capacitors in the audio signal path). I do, however, firmly believe that it takes a long time for the human mind, and ears, to properly appreciate the sonic characteristics of a product. As one becomes more accustomed with the product in question, it becomes more familiar, and pleasing to the user. Familiarity plays a major part in being able to find the minor, hidden details with recordings.

 I'd love to be proven wrong, but I've never seen anything that can accurately or scientifically determine the effect on a repeat basis. All I see - on a repeated basis - is the comments of some individual users with a solitary piece of equipment and their memory of tonal reproduction several days, weeks or even months ago.

 Having been able to compare two Zero's next to each other - one with thousands of hours use, the other with a handful... when both units have the same capacitors installed in the signal path with lots of hours on them, there was absolutely no discernable difference between the two.

 ~Phewl._

 

That dude is a fookwit.

 I absolutely, wholeheartedly and unreservedly take back what I've previously said.

 I've sat here, utterly and totally blown away with what I've just experienced. I ordered the Sun v1 and Earth OPA modules several months ago. I liked the Earth, but initially loved the vibrancy and energy of the Sun, which had a lot more use. When I moved over to Stax, I found the strong characteristics of the Sun to be overwhelming, and the mix of the two became tyring. With the Earth... everything was beautiful. The Earth has since had a LOT of use - it's powered up all the time, and has been used for... I don't know - 2000 hours, maybe more.

 I tried the Sun in my Compass earlier this evening, and found the same traits I had witnessed before. I've had the Moon in for 24 hours or so... I can understand why it has a strong following on here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However... Kingwa sent me a second Earth module with my Compass, in addition to the Moon I'd opted to try, so I could use it in my brothers Zero(heck, the shipping was obviously free given how little space it would take up in the box! I may as well enlighten him!).

 The difference between this "fresh" module and my "well-used" one is nothing short of astonishing. It really is hugely and significantly different. The soundstage on the used one is wider. The bass response is firmer, with more depth. But the difference in the top-end is utterly astronomical. Everything feels SO much more alive and natural.

 Anyone who has gone from the opamps recommended for the Zero, to the new OPA module in it - the difference between the two is the only way I can describe the difference between the well-used OPA and the new one. It is utterly huge, it really is.

 Now... I don't think Kingwa has changed the design of the Earth, but they aren't a perfect comparison. My original Earth was shipped before Kingwa started adding the 2 small caps to the power lines. I did add these to my Earth many months ago, but they aren't the same capacitors as the ones used by Kingwa.

 The values, and type of capacitor, however are the same. Whether or not the difference between these capacitors accounts for the difference in sound between the two, I don't know. I do doubt it though.

 The new OPA-Earth is in my Compass now. It shall remain there for one whole month, of constant use. At the end of December, I shall try the swap again, where - I expect - I'll find the two units to sound much the same as each other.

 Time will tell. I wasn't a believer(as my quoted post testifies), but I just cannot attribute the sonic differences to be down to the different capacitors. Heck, they aren't even in the audio signal path...

 So - publicly, and in [size=medium]big letters, *AudoPhewl recognises he was a moronic twonk* for applying logic to sound[/size].






 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Just to add - I've never heard a difference between a well-used and unused "typical" opamp, save for the few minutes they can take to acquire some heat.

 And I'm sorry for making such a long post(it'll seem even longer to those reading it, because there is the quoted section too!). But I figured I was one of the few people to have a thoroughly-used module to compare to a brand-spanking-new one, and this was a rather important comparison(at least in my eyes). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS - my Stax valve energiser is considerably hotter than the Compass. Heat really, really isn't an issue.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That dude is a fookwit.

 I absolutely, wholeheartedly and unreservedly take back what I've previously said.

 I've sat here, utterly and totally blown away with what I've just experienced. I ordered the Sun v1 and Earth OPA modules several months ago. I liked the Earth, but initially loved the vibrancy and energy of the Sun, which had a lot more use. When I moved over to Stax, I found the strong characteristics of the Sun to be overwhelming, and the mix of the two became tyring. With the Earth... everything was beautiful. The Earth has since had a LOT of use - it's powered up all the time, and has been used for... I don't know - 2000 hours, maybe more.


 <<<<SNIP SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>





 ~Phewl._

 


 Very Nice!

 Let us knw in a month or so how it pans out!


 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Welcome to the club AP. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now you know why I've been adamant to others about giving these modules the time they need before passing judgment on them. The problems arise when most give up before reaching the goal and put something else in (another module flavor or the IC opamp o the month) having almost reached the promised land.....but ...buddy wait !!! It's only another 125 hours damn it...you...ugh....put back.....thingie.. sigh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 cheers AP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...Discrete 100% *Audio-dg* Design vs Minimalist...._

 

The name of the company is audio-gd, not audio-dg. 

 At first I thought you just made a typo or two, but I've noticed a lot of those erroneous references throughout your posts and your sig line.

 Hopefully those can be edited/corrected so that your contributions will be included when people do searches using the name of the company.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The name of the company is audio-gd, not audio-dg. 

 At first I thought you just made a typo or two, but I've noticed a lot of those erroneous references throughout your posts and your sig line.

 Hopefully those can be edited/corrected so that your contributions will be included when people do searches using the name of the company._

 



 Hey Man!
 Making fun of Dyslexics is Not Kewl!



 .


----------



## crispyambulance

Forgive my ignorance, but this thread is 72 pages.

 Is it still possible to order one of these at the promotional price? What exactly is the promotional price?


----------



## csroc

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the "gd" in Audio-gd means?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crispyambulance* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it still possible to order one of these at the promotional price? What exactly is the promotional price?_

 

It is still possible, however all the "test" units have sold out and no more will be available until the end of February it sounds like. The promotional price is $258 currently before any shipping costs. I don't know if any upgrades myself and the other testers suggest might cause that price to increase. I think the price is good until April or so.


----------



## dwong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crispyambulance* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Forgive my ignorance, but this thread is 72 pages.

 Is it still possible to order one of these at the promotional price? What exactly is the promotional price?_

 

According to the ¦ó庆华 ºÍ§Ó*µ响 website, the promotional price of $258USD + shipping will be available for the first few months.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Man!
 Making fun of Dyslexics is Not Kewl!

 ._

 


 LOL, I wasn't making fun...just trying to help get his posts to show up in searches...


----------



## crispyambulance

Thanks for the answers. I suppose it's too early for a concensus on the unit's quality compared to other DACs, huh?

 Here's a somewhat random question: do digital audio cables have a limit to how long they can be? I know that RCA and headphone cables, as analogue, might begin to deteriorate the quality of the signal as extensions are added. It seems possible to me that a digital signal might become corrupted if the cable is too long; though I have no real expertise. I think I would need a ten foot or so cable from my computer to my cabinet of equipment, which isn't so long, I suppose, but I'd like to make sure it's practical.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The difference between this "fresh" module and my "well-used" one is nothing short of astonishing. It really is hugely and significantly different. The soundstage on the used one is wider. The bass response is firmer, with more depth. But the difference in the top-end is utterly astronomical. Everything feels SO much more alive and natural.
 Anyone who has gone from the opamps recommended for the Zero, to the new OPA module in it - the difference between the two is the only way I can describe the difference between the well-used OPA and the new one. It is utterly huge, it really is._

 

Yeah, that's what we need! Old vs. new comparisons. Thanks for this. Ok, I guess it's not a 100% equal given the slight difference between the modules, but pretty darn convincing nonetheless.

 I'm really looking forward to you power cable comparison. But I assume you will be doing that with a fully burned-in unit.

 It makes me all the more impatient to begin the burn-in journey with my Compass. This morning the website says it just left Brussels. Brussels?? Yes, Brussels, please don't ask me what it was doing there. Next stop might be Rome. I think it's time for me to complain to DHL.


----------



## majkel

AudioPhewl, capacitors matter a lot, if you want to compare, remove cap upgrades from both OPA-Earth's for the time of comparison or make sure you put exactly the same type of capacitors on both devices and let them play for a while.


----------



## Drosera

A quick and dirty compilation:







 So, yes, it arrived. Very nicely packaged and with the extra cables and OPAs that I ordered. (I must say, I saw some other packages in the DHL van that were completely torn open. Glad those weren't mine.) The strangest thing about its arrival were the clearance costs. They were quite a bit higher than could be expected by the 50-60$ value indicated on the package by Kingwa. I did some calculation and it's exactly 19% of the actual price of the Compass. So, exactly the amount of value-added tax that was legaly due! Now, how did they figure this out? Did they call Kingwa? Or perhaps someone around here is working for Dutch customs. Oh well, I'm kind of expecting to receive a bill for the clearance costs somewhere in the coming days too. The disadvantages of living here, I guess. Who knows, I might move to the USA someday.

 Funny, although I knew the measurements and so knew what to expect, the large size of this thing still managed to surprise me. That goes for the size of the lettering too. It's sitting on top of my 'warmish' Opera now, acclimatising. Glad it made it eventually.

 So Peete, is Canadian customs still sitting on yours?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crispyambulance* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the answers. I suppose it's too early for a concensus on the unit's quality compared to other DACs, huh?

 Here's a somewhat random question: do digital audio cables have a limit to how long they can be? I know that RCA and headphone cables, as analogue, might begin to deteriorate the quality of the signal as extensions are added. It seems possible to me that a digital signal might become corrupted if the cable is too long; though I have no real expertise. I think I would need a ten foot or so cable from my computer to my cabinet of equipment, which isn't so long, I suppose, but I'd like to make sure it's practical._

 

10ft isn't that long. Maybe get something well constructed to proper specifications, such as a Blue Jeans digital cable, then you should be ok.

 I guess I need to write up a Compass FAQ now.

 Drosera: I can't wait to hear what you think of the Compass compared to the Opera. The Opera was on my shortlist of amps some time ago.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Drosera: I can't wait to hear what you think of the Compass compared to the Opera. The Opera was on my shortlist of amps some time ago._

 

The bad news is, I am afraid you _will_ have to wait a little. I won't be comparing them directly before the Compass has reached the 1000-hour mark. (Or perhaps, when I feel there are no changes anymore in the sound signature.) Otherwise it wouldn't be fair.


----------



## Drosera

Ah, I see Kingwa has now answered all of our questions regarding temperature and the Compass on the Compass page. (Or at least, he answered all of mine.) Great.


----------



## sandchak

Hi Drosera, just had a glass of wine to celebrate your homecoming of Compass !.. strange the customs people know about the price of Compass, sure must make Kingwa very happy - Audio GD seems to be quite famous..

 I had an hour with Compass last night, it beat my NAD C541i hands down, but against my CD 17 it sounded slightly veiled.. I know how these things improve over a period of time, so it might as well catch up or even better.. in any case I am very happy with the purchase as it was intended for my PC setup and as a DAC to my NAD CDP, its a mighty jump in that case.. for my main gear I am looking at the upcoming Reference Three DAC from Kingwa.. I'll write my findings in the test thread, maybe tonight..

 Well, Happy for you !!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had followed the initial test with another, this time Compass with Audio GD custom power cables and 300+ hrs burned in Moon opamp and posted my impressions in another thread :

  Quote:


 Originally Posted by ccschua 
 wonder if this is the 4x1704 or the 4x1702 version. I wonder how would this dac3se compare with the Denon DCD1 or the Philip CD950 / Marantz CD17 ? 
 

I have the Marantz CD17 (not MKII or KI), if I am not mistaken it shares the same DAC as Philips CD950 (TDA1547 SAA7350 ) although different transports, in this case Marantz uses CDM12.3 and Philips CDM9.

 I have been giving the CD17 a good listen the last two nights ever since my Compass arrived, I have had very close listening to CD17 analogue out and CD17 coaxed with Compass (24-48 hours burn in only).

 To my ears, The Compass with CD17 against CD17 on the very first listen (out of the box and fresh Earth opamp) had a slightly veiled sound, although the sound stage was at least a a couple of feets spread apart than CD17, tonality wise CD17 sounded more musical, while with Compass it was more neutral and natural to my ears.

 On the second listen - 48 hours burn in, AudioGD power cables and old moon opamp installed, the veil just disappeared, making the sound stage not only wider but also more focussed, and three dimensioned, it was like everything became bigger on the stage, there was weight added to the piano, some leather the drums, .. 

 Ok, to cut this short, CD17 with Compass on the second listen with change of stock cables and matured opamp betters CD17 alone in imaging, tonality and dynamics.. 

 I shared my findings with Kingwa and he wasn't surprised, there are many buyers of DAC100 who have compared and found better than Marantz CD16, which is a notch above.. in fact he went further by advising me some upgrades on the CD17 (upgraded power supply - clock and coax output) which will take it to another platform..

 Anyway, these are just my findings which is based on my ears/taste and my experience.. to me it seems and without hearing that DAC 3SE should be in a different league all together.

 As of now I have placed the Earth back on the Compass, as I found the Moon excel in some music and dull on others.. I would like to burn in the Earth for a while before I take a close listen and put it up against the Marantz CD17 player and see the difference it has over the moon setup.


----------



## Drosera

Hi Sandhchak/Sandeep,

 What a lousy excuse for a glass of wine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not that you need an excuse, of course. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 What actually worries me a little about this customs-scenario is that it appears that customs are getting to be less easily fooled these days. In the past they just used to believe the value that's indicated on the package. This may not bode well for future (far more expensive) purchases from China. I'm not complaining too loudly of course. After all, it's the law. And it appears that Brazilian taxes are even worse. (60%, wow!)

 Very interesting to hear that it outperforms your NAD C541i. One of the reasons I purchased the Compass is that my NAD C541 recently broke down. (Very stupid and irrepairable mechanical defect that comes about through simple wear of the transport mechanism. Figuring this out made me realise how needlessly complex tray-loading mechanisms are. That's one of the reasons why I want a top-loading transport at some point in the future. But I digress mightily. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 Well, the CD 17 was hardly an inexpensive cd player. So if the Compass doesn't quite attain those heights, it doesn't really say anything negative about the Compass. But who knows what the Compass will sound like in a few weeks time.

 There's a Reference Three coming? Oh, well maybe that will be my goal as well then, finances allowing...


----------



## Drosera

By the way, has anyone here come up with a particularly good way to store the HDAMs/OPAs they're not using at the moment? I mean, apart from keeping them warm in the Zero.


----------



## sandchak

I am keeping it just the way it came .. it survived traveling all over the world, so i feel thats the best way to store it..


----------



## direcow

Looks like Kingwa is not taking any new orders till version 2 is out, he seems rather resistant to taking my money. Back to the predator as a home dac then.

 He's lined out the changes to be made, which are quite exciting:

  Quote:


 Yes, upgrade hope will be had bright1 ,Neutral, Soft1 and Soft2.
 Will be had 13/19DB gain switch on back panel.
 Will be had preamp line out . 
 

most of which has been discussed at some point. Looks like those are all the bases covered, actually.

 Can't wait for end feb!


----------



## 8140david

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_for my main gear I am looking at the upcoming Reference Three DAC from Kingwa_

 

What are the next planned products from Audio-gd?
 I saw on Audio-gd's webpage an add for a future Reference one (for March), but the specifications were not very clear to me.
 So is a Reference three also on the way, and what is it?

 By the way, can someone (perhaps Tyson) compare the Dac of the Compass to higher-end Dacs of Audio-gd?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are the next planned products from Audio-gd?
 I saw on Audio-gd's webpage an add for a future Reference one (for March), but the specifications were not very clear to me.
 So is a Reference three also on the way, and what is it?

 By the way, can someone (perhaps Tyson) compare the Dac of the Compass to higher-end Dacs of Audio-gd?_

 

If you go to the Chinese version of Audio GD website, Google translate it, you will have a fair idea (technically) of the upcoming products, usually he releases new products for local Chinese market before going International.
 Of what little I know about reference three, unlike reference one which is based on DSP1 and 8 PCM1704 chips, this one would be based on DSP1 and 2 PCM1704 chips.

 As far as comparison between Tysons DAC and Compass, although I would be very interested, I think its no compare at all, Compass is more of an entry level DAC like that DAC 100 of Audio GD.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, has anyone here come up with a particularly good way to store the HDAMs/OPAs they're not using at the moment? I mean, apart from keeping them warm in the Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have a small fishing tackle box that has slots in it exactly the size of two HDAMs.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, can someone (perhaps Tyson) compare the Dac of the Compass to higher-end Dacs of Audio-gd?_

 

I can take a guess going by the Nakamichi Dragon DAC I heard, which uses 4x the same DA chips Audio-gd uses in their higher-end DACs that there's a huge difference. For me, that'd mainly be that multi-bit DAs actually sound natural, whereas regular 1-bit DACs do not. This is very noticeable listening to pianos or violins.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a small fishing tackle box that has slots in it exactly the size of two HDAMs.



 I can take a guess going by the Nakamichi Dragon DAC I heard, which uses 4x the same DA chips Audio-gd uses in their higher-end DACs that there's a huge difference. For me, that'd mainly be that multi-bit DAs actually sound natural, whereas regular 1-bit DACs do not. This is very noticeable listening to pianos or violins._

 

Curra,
 Could you post a quick list of the "Common" DAC products here that are 1 bit?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a small fishing tackle box that has slots in it exactly the size of two HDAMs._

 

Good idea, I actually might have something similar lying around somewhere. Thanks.


----------



## K3cT

Anyway, how do the custom audio-gd's power cables offered turn out to be? Do they provide a justifiable improvement over stock?


----------



## mbd2884

I second this!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway, how do the custom audio-gd's power cables offered turn out to be? Do they provide a justifiable improvement over stock?_


----------



## ccschua

Finally the review is out for Compass. Great to see the review is nothing short of excitement.

 I too had the OPA SUN V2 in the DAC 100 and I am enjoying the sound. The DAC 100 gets hot as well but it is good to leave it on for the unit to properly burn in (even without music).

 Changing the power cord will give another performance boost to the DAC. The power cord will 'filter' out those EMI/RFI and thus give a cleaner background and more 'bandwidth' for the signal to travel. It is like train travelling on a track and not in a tunnel.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally the review is out for Compass. Great to see the review is nothing short of excitement._

 

Yes...., but.... The problem is, with some obvious exceptions, most of the people who have bought the Compass have bought it as a first real DAC/Amp, or as an upgrade for their Zero. So they probably won't have that much to compare it too. (Please don't think I'm speaking about anyone personally, I'm just generalising.)
 What's more, people tend to defend (at least for a while) things they purchased with their own money. Consciously or unconsciously, you don't want to admit you made a wrong purchase. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So in the end, what would be most valuable would be a review from an experienced reviewer (say Skylab or IronDreamer) who has gotten the unit on loan just to review it.

 But you are right, the Compass is good, I can affirm that. But whether it's good, extremely good or 'OMG, this thing is ******** amazing!!!', for that we'll have to wait a bit longer.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway, how do the custom audio-gd's power cables offered turn out to be? Do they provide a justifiable improvement over stock?_

 

I just started burning in the stock power cable with the compass, I'll compare them when I get at least 50 hours on the stock cable, and then compare it with the custom cable which might've been burned-in by audio-gd. Wanted to wait for the power conditioner I got off ebay but I'll do it now ^^. Btw do you guys think the stock cable that comes with the compass is the same quality as computer monitors? Could save me some burn-in time :] and give results now.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Changing the power cord will give another performance boost to the DAC. The power cord will 'filter' out those EMI/RFI and thus give a cleaner background and more 'bandwidth' for the signal to travel. It is like train travelling on a track and not in a tunnel._

 

I don't know what features the custom power cord has, but if it filters noise then the question of whether or not the sq improvement for $60 is justified depends partly on how much emf noise is in your outlet. That amount of money for a power cord may seem like overkill, but it's $15 off and can be used for something else 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. They should show you the actual size of the cable on the product description though, in real life it looks like a anaconda.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just started burning in the stock power cable with the compass, I'll compare them when I get at least 50 hours on the stock cable, and then compare it with the custom cable which might've been burned-in by audio-gd. Wanted to wait for the power conditioner I got off ebay but I'll do it now ^^. Btw do you guys think the stock cable that comes with the compass is the same quality as computer monitors? Could save me some burn-in time :] and give results now._

 

I think it's the same as any standard stock cable that comes with your electronic appliances so extrapolating the comparison to the stock cable of the Compass doesn't sound too far-fetched. I say go for it. Besides, I'm sure there are people (like me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) who are dying to hear impressions on the custom power cable.


----------



## sandchak

talking about the cables, its quite interesting.. I mean apart from the ready made power cable I also bought bare cables (1.5mtr, think that is mentioned on the website) because I wanted to make a power cable for my CD player by pulling the lines directly from the power supply and also save some money on the plugs as I have some good schukos at home.

 From the bare cables I can see that there are 5 pairs of twisted cables, instead of normally 3 (like my Supra LoRad 2.5), 2 for +, 2 for - and one ground..
 Btw, the cable is so thick that it doesn't fit the schukos I have !..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

No change for me....still sitting in customs ....this sucks. I bet I'm the last of the test group to see the Compass if I see it all. 
 To say I'm bummed is a bit of an understatement. I have loads of patience but I find this situation has passed the point of reasonable delay....what else can I do. I've called, emailed, called again......no change in status.

 Glad you got your unit Drosera (despite having to pay the fee). It looks really nice !!!

 Rather than spend money on another tray type transport...have a look at the CDM12 Pro I bought recently and am almost ready to do the review on (I need to put 450 hours on it before putting pen to paper). It's an outstanding spinner easily besting ALL of my regular and expensive CDP/DVD Players. At 560US it's a bloody steal. I'm absolutely delighted by it's performance. Vic from Pac Valve is in total agreement with this opinion, he's compared it to all his regular CDP/DAC combos and found none of them match up....a complete surprise he wasn't expecting at all. I'm trying to convince myself I need another one so I don't have to move the CDM12 in the main rig back and forth to the head fi rig.......(lazy person that I am 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 I think the wife suspects something though............(must avoid calling suspicion to ones self when walking near the female lion, whilst wearing a meat helmet )......Doh Run she's seen the 8mm aluminum heavy duty chassis, I'm busted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Sganzerla

My Compass is here but there is something wrong happening.
 The volume is very very low and when I raise it make static noises and when I go past 12' it clips and mute everything.

 Think I will have to buy some allen keys somewhere to see what it can be. Any help?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No change for me....still sitting in customs ....this sucks. I bet I'm the last of the test group to see the Compass if I see it all. 
 To say I'm bummed is a bit of an understatement. I have loads of patience but I find this situation has passed the point of reasonable delay....what else can I do. I've called, emailed, called again......no change in status.

 Glad you got your unit Drosera (despite having to pay the fee). It looks really nice !!!

 Rather than spend money on another tray type transport...have a look at the CDM12 Pro I bought recently and am almost ready to do the review on (I need to put 450 hours on it before putting pen to paper). It's an outstanding spinner easily besting ALL of my regular and expensive CDP/DVD Players. At 560US it's a bloody steal. I'm absolutely delighted by it's performance. Vic from Pac Valve is in total agreement with this opinion, he's compared it to all his regular CDP/DAC combos and found none of them match up....a complete surprise he wasn't expecting at all. I'm trying to convince myself I need another one so I don't have to move the CDM12 in the main rig back and forth to the head fi rig.......(lazy person that I am 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 I think the wife suspects something though............(must avoid calling suspicion to ones self when walking near the female lion, whilst wearing a meat helmet )......Doh Run she's seen the 8mm aluminum heavy duty chassis, I'm busted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

That really sucks, still in Customs. Actually I have a very close Chinese friend in Canada ( and I understand its quite a large community out there), I spoke to him yesterday and he said his stuffs from China ( and he gets them very regularly)usually passes through very fast, but sometimes and I mean very sometimes it gets stuck, specially electronic stuffs, its like they do it at random, and once its stuck it can be there for weeks.. well I really hope thats not the case..

 Coming to transport, I consider myself real lucky, I bought this from my neighbor in mint condition, he was selling away his uncles belongings after he passed away, he sold the Marantz CD17 to me for 200 bucks !! and If I am not mistaken it has TDA1547 DAC chip with CDM 12.3 transport..


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Compass is here but there is something wrong happening.
 The volume is very very low and when I raise it make static noises and when I go past 12' it clips and mute everything.

 Think I will have to buy some allen keys somewhere to see what it can be. Any help?




_

 

When I don't have the input selector dial set to anything I've connected to the compass, I also get the static noise thing at 12 o clock. I think this may be due to the special volume control design, but your low volume thing is not normal. I never go above 9 o clock. When the compass came it had the Super and Power button pressed in, make sure the super button isn't pressed in. And what source did you use?


----------



## mbd2884

Oh noes, I hope its just because you have it setup wrong and not the Compass itself.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Compass is here but there is something wrong happening.
 The volume is very very low and when I raise it make static noises and when I go past 12' it clips and mute everything.

 Think I will have to buy some allen keys somewhere to see what it can be. Any help?




_


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Compass is here but there is something wrong happening.
 The volume is very very low and when I raise it make static noises and when I go past 12' it clips and mute everything.

 Think I will have to buy some allen keys somewhere to see what it can be. Any help?




_

 

At least I can say, you do not need allen keys to open Compass, if you have a nose pliers somewhere around it will do the job. The rest I presume Kingwa or maybe other more knowledgeable people on the forum can help..

 thats really sad ( and more so in your case, as I think you paid around 60% tax..), must have taken quite a beating while traveling..


----------



## haloxt

Well to be safe you should probably not tinker with the compass right now until someone who can help you troubleshoot can help, or maybe email audio-gd. maybe you can claim dhl damaged it shipping to you but if you open it that might change that.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess I need to write up a Compass FAQ now._

 

Hey, is there a thread or page on the qualities of the OPAs that Audio-gd sells? If not, perhaps you could kindly include some impressions of the OPAs. I think that would help people make up their minds.

 I, for one, am not sure what "humanity" sounds like. Whining and complaining, most likely.


----------



## Sganzerla

HDAM wasn't in place!!! Thanks God!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Picture and very first impressions soon.


----------



## csroc

Wow, must have been handled pretty rough in shipping to knock that loose!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No change for me....still sitting in customs ....this sucks. I bet I'm the last of the test group to see the Compass if I see it all. 
 To say I'm bummed is a bit of an understatement. I have loads of patience but I find this situation has passed the point of reasonable delay....what else can I do. I've called, emailed, called again......no change in status._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That really sucks, still in Customs. Actually I have a very close Chinese friend in Canada ( and I understand its quite a large community out there), I spoke to him yesterday and he said his stuffs from China ( and he gets them very regularly)usually passes through very fast, but sometimes and I mean very sometimes it gets stuck, specially electronic stuffs, its like they do it at random, and once its stuck it can be there for weeks.. well I really hope thats not the case.._

 

Well, in a way this would be good news, they hold on to it, but at least they won't loose it.
 Geez Peete, that must be extremely frustrating. At least you can communicate with a company like DHL, with customs it's just a sort of 'black box': it goes in and you hope it comes out, and no communication is possible in the mean time. You of all people do not deserve this kind of treatment.
 Well, however long it may take (and I hope to goodness that it gets 'released' tomorrow), at least I can confirm it's worth the wait. It speaks really well for Kingwa that he developed and made this thing in no time at all and yet none of us has reported any major flaws yet.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, must have been handled pretty rough in shipping to knock that loose!_

 

Yeah, apparently they can be very rough with the goods. As mentioned, as saw some pretty heavily mistreated packages myself, peaking into the DHL van. Maybe it would be an idea for Kingwa to not just house his equipment in heavy metal plating, but do the same with his packages.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

So what are initial owners impressions of the Compass with HD650s, in comparison to say a standard Zero? The reason I ask is because I recently received a Zero to drive some HD650s I had bought. I also received a set of AD700s a couple of days ago and I have to say I am mightily impressed with the AD700s. Very detailed, great soundstage.... ok they are pretty bright, which I guess could get fatiguing but so far I much prefer the involvement that the AD700s give over my HD650s.

 These are the first two decent phones I have ever listened to so maybe I just prefer a brighter sound.... too early for me to be sure yet. I know the AD700s are much easier to drive than the HD650s, so I'm thinking my stock Zero is doing them more justice than it is the HD650s? I'm also guessing my HD650s may well open up a bit more with some more burn in. I estimate I have put maybe 40-60 hours on them so far... my Zero probably has similar hours on it too.

 If I do go for the Compass, what am I likely to be getting from my HD650s that I wont with my Zero? I guess what I would really like is to get detail and soundstage much like I am getting from the AD700s now, while retaining all the great traits that I currently like about the 650s such as deeper bass and overall more balanced natural sound. Hmm.... maybe I am expecting too much from the HD650s? Do you think the Compass can help the 650s shine?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the club AP. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now you know why I've been adamant to others about giving these modules the time they need before passing judgment on them. The problems arise when most give up before reaching the goal and put something else in (another module flavor or the IC opamp o the month) having almost reached the promised land.....but ...buddy wait !!! It's only another 125 hours damn it...you...ugh....put back.....thingie.. sigh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 cheers AP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Hey Peeeeeeeete!

 I've never thought that you, or anyone else, were making it all up or anything like that. Audio can be so difficult to evaluate - it takes time to become accustomed to how a particular unit sounds. After a few hours, days, weeks even... one becomes more and more familiar with it, it feels more and more 'right'. Having never experienced the burn-in effect with opamps, a big part of me just put the burn-in experience of these modules down to familiarity, and acceptance.

 It's difficult to compare gradual differences on the fly. Changes over many hours are difficult to place IMO, because I've never felt that human memory is all that reliable with audio. It is much, much easier to compare tow components side-by-side, rather than relying on memories from days or weeks ago. The differences over this period of time aren't - IMO - as dramatic as the visible difference between a red sheet of paper, and a blue one. If the colour of that sheet of paper were to change by 1% each day, with just the human memory as a comparison, it most people wouldn't notice the difference.

 I reckon we need 2 Compasses - one with multiple-hundred hours on it, and the other as it leaves Kingwa. That would be the best way to see the difference. Or if Kingwa shipped us 10 units, with varying use - "standard factory testing reference model", +100hrs, +200, +300, +400, +500, +750, +1000, +2000, +10000 hours. That would be the best way to evaluate how things change within the Compass itself.

 I know I've wandered away from the post I actually quoted... I guess I've just typed out my reasoning for not volunteering to join in the with Compass burn-in diaries - I don't know whether it applies to anyone else, but my audio memory just isn't accurate enough to do it in the method you've suggested. The one above would be a doddle, but it's not a very easy way to set up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bummer about customs holding your unit. As with all couriers, most parcels go through perfectly, and in a timely manner. Some get held up... I guess that out of 18 units, 2/3 of them are likely to run into shipment issues 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I reckon you'll like it when it does show up though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I do go for the Compass, what am I likely to be getting from my HD650s that I wont with my Zero? I guess what I would really like is to get detail and soundstage much like I am getting from the AD700s now, while retaining all the great traits that I currently like about the 650s such as deeper bass and overall more balanced natural sound. Hmm.... maybe I am expecting too much from the HD650s? Do you think the Compass can help the 650s shine?_

 

I can't comment on the headphone amplifier part of either with any real authority - I rarely use mine. However, my 600ohm Senn HD480IIs do sound better powered by the Compass than my Zero.

 My Stax stuff is hugely better than my Senns. Using them with my Stax Energiser, fed by both the Compass DAC and the Zero DAC - the difference between the two is very easy to spot, and - frankly - becoming more and more stagerring as time passes.

 Because I'm so familiar with my Stax stuff now, I struggle to listen to my Senns, as they seem lifeless, muffled and bass-heavy. But before I spent a good amount of time with the Stax, I always felt the 480II's performed very favourably with the HD650s.

 The difference in the DAC section between the two is very noticeable. I think you'll find a good increase in sonic performance, if you were to try the Compass alongside the Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't comment on the headphone amplifier part of either with any real authority - I rarely use mine. However, my 600ohm Senn HD480IIs do sound better powered by the Compass than my Zero.

 My Stax stuff is hugely better than my Senns. Using them with my Stax Energiser, fed by both the Compass DAC and the Zero DAC - the difference between the two is very easy to spot, and - frankly - becoming more and more stagerring as time passes.

 Because I'm so familiar with my Stax stuff now, I struggle to listen to my Senns, as they seem lifeless, muffled and bass-heavy. But before I spent a good amount of time with the Stax, I always felt the 480II's performed very favourably with the HD650s.

 The difference in the DAC section between the two is very noticeable. I think you'll find a good increase in sonic performance, if you were to try the Compass alongside the Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Thanks Phewl. I know what you mean about the Senns seeming muffled, Its something I have already thought about my HD650s and having now listened to the AD700s (ok I know its not the same as your example of your Senns vs your Stax) it has really highlighted the "veil" that so many people on here talk about when describing the HD650s. I do think though that overall, with a decent DAC and amp and some preferential choice of HDAMs or other mods perhaps, I could probably learn to like the HD650s more than the AD700s. But as it stands, there are more things I like about the AD700s than the 650s. Shame really, as the AD700s aren't technically mine, they are a gift to my girlfriend for the end of next month.... but I couldn't resist having a good listen as I almost bought these before impulse buying the Senns!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Whatever cans you owned, if you never heard anything else, you'd fall in love with every aspect of what they do, because they fulfilled your desire to listen to music. No matter how clean, bassy, or neutral they were, you'd appreciate them nonetheless.

 Excluding the very cheap stuff that folk on here wouldn't use, there is good and bad in every piece of equipment. The trick is finding a complete package that works for the individual. The clarity and detail that I find with the Stax is often described as thin, sharp and unmusical by those who don't enjoy them. The Senn 650s are lovely, in many ways, but they don't have the ultimate finesse and raw detail that I, personally, seek from my headphones. But they do give a highly musical portrayal of bass and depth, which for casual listening, most people would initially prefer over the Stax.

 Lets not forget - the vast majority of people, in the vast majority of situations, prefer a mediocre sound with noticeably increased bass, and the treble also increased, but to a lesser extent. There is stuff out there that can sound extremely good for casual listening, whilst entertaining, cleaning, working, etc. But it just doesn't have what it takes to become involving, intricate and detailed.

 A fundamentally-good DAC, influenced with the characteristics of an individual opamp or HDAM module, will bring you loads of joy with both headphones. You'll have one pair that you love, and automatically turn to when wanting to listen. But the other will have its own characteristics and strengths, and you'll appreciate that also.

 Same goes for opamps and HDAMs, actually. They all have their strengths and weaknesses... apart from the Earth, which - IMO - does nothing wrong and gets everything right - but that's just what works for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Nothing to update.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hi AP !! I never thought you did think I was full of it. I was just trying to convey why I am so bull headed about saying the audio-gd stuffs requires burn in...other gear YMMV but Kingwa's stuff ? Nope, it needs it without exception IMO.

 The method for possibly mapping out change that I have outlined is the easiest way to do it and takes the least amount of time for the end users. Let's face it we all have jobs, lives (maybe not me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) that make demands of our time on a daily basis so this method using a known familiar track is the best way for the layman to note anything over a long period of time. 5 minutes a day or second day is all it takes.

 The actual process relies on ones memory to not remember what happened the day before (this is a plus IMO) with that track ...it's at the end of the study when the data is studied that a burn in pattern may appear from the notes (or may not).

 It's the only way I can think of that's easy enough to understand and to complete over the long term. A simple lows, mids, highs breakdown should be good enough. Anything outside of that is OK to include...it's up to the end user how detailed they want to get. Any result is better than no result for this trials purposes.

 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

Compared to my monitor's power cable (with 2000+ hours of burn-in! guess where the stock compass cable is warming up?) the custom cable makes everything musical, even my Spanish language cd's. My computer monitor's power cable sounds less detailed but has more soundstage, and seems neutral. The differences are a lot smaller when I just connect from my normal power strip, when connected to the power conditioner the custom power cable really does sound musical.

 I'm sure compass' stock power cable is better than my computer monitor's, but I'll let it burn in before I compare. So this post is pretty much just to let those interested in the custom cable know that it does indeed lend some flavor to the sound, some may like some may not. I love the detail but with my current set-up it sounds a little too musical (too much music?).

 edit: i should mention i'm using the sun v2 in the compass, partly because kingwa said it might not sound too good inside ^^. i don't know how different power cables sound like when using moon, but unless someone asks i'll stop trying to compare things and just do burn-in.


----------



## Sganzerla

Take a look at this:

 The position I saw when opened the top





 Look, the pins are not straight




 (crap pictures, but they show what happened)

 How well HDAM sits when you put it in place? My has a little room to movement if you push a little, don't know if I should force it down to click in or not. Better ask, right?

 My Compass is burning with a new Earth Kingwa sent me, and from the box it already sounds better than my Zero (Earth+2xNE5322) - better and deeper bass and soundstage. It may be those 'crap' HP opamps, I don't know for sure. If there was no burn in this module, hope there will be improvements like happened (?) to my Zero with 75 and 250 hours mark. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I listened to Moon 3 or 4 songs and looks like this will be my choice in the future, after burn in.

 Soon will try USB and compare to my Asus motherboard coaxial out.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A fundamentally-good DAC, influenced with the characteristics of an individual opamp or HDAM module, will bring you loads of joy with both headphones. You'll have one pair that you love, and automatically turn to when wanting to listen. But the other will have its own characteristics and strengths, and you'll appreciate that also.

 Same goes for opamps and HDAMs, actually. They all have their strengths and weaknesses... apart from the Earth, which - IMO - does nothing wrong and gets everything right - but that's just what works for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Yeah, tbh I think I am being too hasty in my judgements. I'm going to try and put a good number of hours on both HPs over the next month and also make sure the Zero is fully burned in. 

 The Earth HDAM was the one I was considering ordering the same time as the Zero. Indeed I think I will likely order one towards the end of next month whether I decide to keep the Zero or go for a Compass.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ snip....

 How well HDAM sits when you put it in place? My has a little room to movement if you push a little, don't know if I should force it down to click in or not. Better ask, right?

 My Compass is burning with a new Earth Kingwa sent me, and from the box it already sounds better than my Zero (Earth+2xNE5322) - better and deeper bass and soundstage. It may be those 'crap' HP opamps, I don't know for sure. If there was no burn in this module, hope there will be improvements like happened (?) to my Zero with 75 and 250 hours mark. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I listened to Moon 3 or 4 songs and looks like this will be my choice in the future, after burn in.

 Soon will try USB and compare to my Asus motherboard coaxial out._

 


 Wow that angle of bend on the HDAM pins tells me that box took one hell of a knock somewhere along the road to your house. Take some needle nose pliers and gently realign the pins back to there normal positions. If you break one Kingwa can fix it for you (he offers to fix these NC , check the page for details). You'll have to pay shipping back to Kingwa but that should be a fairly small fee considering size and weight of an HDAM. 

 It will rock slightly in the socket, that's normal...just make sure it's fully seated and level, hook up the ground strap and away you go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The NE5532's in the Zero's H/Amp section are definitely the weak link in that setup. Get some LT1364's if you can , the difference is huge over the super old NE5532's.

 I like the Moon module as well but prefer the Earth in DACs....we'll soon see if my Compass ever gets here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With the pounding your Compass took during shipment it looks as though no other damage happened. Terrific build quality and good packing. Means it passes the careless shipper/courier torture test with flying colors.

 I think everyone should open their unit's first before turning them on just to make sure everything is OK. Better safe than sorry. I do this with most gear that has socketed OPA's. Although IC based ones usually don't come loose no matter how abused the package is during shipment. There is always a first time though.

 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

Sganzerla I don't think Kingwa would have liked to have seen that also. To me, I would think that occured while it was being delivered by DHL. Mine arrived in excellent condition though.

 But I am very happy to know that you are able to listen to your Compass with the Earth Opamp. I've decided to let it burn in with Moon a little more before I switch over to Earth.


----------



## csroc

Sganzerla, was there some tape stacked up on the underside of the lid above the HDAM? That should have kept it in place, mine was held in place by several pieces. I haven't bothered to remove that tape either, don't see much reason to at the moment.

 With the tape I can't imagine how that would have happened unless DHL was playing sports with your package. Better email Kingwa and let him know I suppose.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

chum_2000_UK

 I find the HD650's are highly source dependent/picky and the reason why I think that is because they scale so well with better grades of gear in front of them (amp and source). I have no veil with mine although before I modified my Zero into the Frankie the highs were recessed a little.

 I think the 650 has fantastic treble extension now, the only thing(s) that changed were the quality of source in front of the amp feeding the cans and 300 hours of burn in for the 650's. Fresh 650's sound a little off until they settle.

 IMO anyway.

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ How well HDAM sits when you put it in place? My has a little room to movement if you push a little, don't know if I should force it down to click in or not. Better ask, right?_

 

It should move slightly, the pins are gripped by the socket, but it's not as tight as an opamp would be, due to the turned pins...

 Might find it easiest to straighten them with a thin ruler?

 I'd also be interested to know if you upper case had the padding foam the other units all seemed to have...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_chum_2000_UK

 I find the HD650's are highly source dependent/picky and the reason why I think that is because they scale so well with better grades of gear in front of them (amp and source). I have no veil with mine although before I modified my Zero into the Frankie the highs were recessed a little.

 I think the 650 has fantastic treble extension now, the only thing(s) that changed were the quality of source in front of the amp feeding the cans and 300 hours of burn in for the 650's. Fresh 650's sound a little off until they settle.

 IMO anyway.

 Peete._

 

Thanks Peete!

 I'm certainly going to stick with the 650s.... I cant put my finger on it but I get the impression that I will come to like the 650s more than I currently like the AD700s. I guess its from what I have read about what you describe (them being very source dependent) and what owners have described the sound becoming with better gear. I think wihen they are fully burned in and with some careful choices of equipment I could get the HD650s sounding pretty much how I want - whereas although I like the AD700s now, I think in the long run there would be areas where they are lacking with little potential to improve.

 Does that make any sense at all? Those are my initial impressions. I don't know if its what I have read, or what I am hearing from the both sets of HPs... or a combination of both, but I do feel as though the HD650s have a lot more to give, whereas the AD700s maybe not so much.


----------



## csroc

The AD700s are a great value, they offer a lot but they have a very different character than the HD650. I've heard the ATH-AD7 which I think was the precursor to the AD700 and I own the AD900s as well as the Sennheiser HD650s. Both have their strengths so it's a really tough call for me to decide which is better.


----------



## Sganzerla

Yes, mine had the foam under the top os Compass - I left it there, and looks it don't really touch HDAM. I don't think it is Kingwa's fault, and I'm not very worried to say the truth. Will try to realign them sometime in the future.

 2 RCA outs are dented and one is crooked too - maybe next week I put more pictures and consideration about my unit.

 I'll write Kingwa today, show these pictures and say my Compass arrived.

 Tried USB and the sound is very different from coaxial out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Nexts days are going to be very busy to me, so I don't want to start something and leave.

 I bought some LT1364 from Farnell but after 15 days past the date they gave me, I asked by phone and they said there were legal problems exporting with these things to my country, and couldn't do anything (???). Then I had already bought this product... will sell Zero soon.

 By the way thanks for your help and support.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD700s are a great value, they offer a lot but they have a very different character than the HD650. I've heard the ATH-AD7 which I think was the precursor to the AD700 and I own the AD900s as well as the Sennheiser HD650s. Both have their strengths so it's a really tough call for me to decide which is better._

 

How would you describe the AD900s in comparison to the HD650s? What do each do well? The AD900s are over two times the price I paid for the AD700s so must be a fair bit better. How did your AD900s stack up against the AD7s you heard? What do the AD900s do better than the AD700s any idea?

 EDIT: Ok, I stopped being lazy and read a thread here R.E. difference between the AD700 and 900, so no worries about that. Very interested in the other questions though


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, mine had the foam under the top os Compass - I left it there, and looks it don't really touch HDAM. I don't think it is Kingwa's fault, and I'm not very worried to say the truth. Will try to realign them sometime in the future.

 2 RCA outs are dented and one is crooked too - maybe next week I put more pictures and consideration about my unit.

 I'll write Kingwa today, show these pictures and say my Compass arrived.

 Tried USB and the sound is very different from coaxial out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow your compass really took a beating :/. Can you give more details about how the RCA sounds different from usb?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How would you describe the AD900s in comparison to the HD650s? What do each do well? The AD900s are over two times the price I paid for the AD700s so must be a fair bit better. How did your AD900s stack up against the AD7s you heard? What do the AD900s do better than the AD700s any idea?

 EDIT: Ok, I stopped being lazy and read a thread here R.E. difference between the AD700 and 900, so no worries about that. Very interested in the other questions though_

 

Hmm where do I start?

 The 650s have a deeper/richer sound than the AD900s and a narrower soundstage, the Audio Technicas have a broad soundstage that they're known for and really make you feel like you're in a big open room surrounded by the music. Both have good soundstages but much like their different tonal balances they both suit different types of music. The AD900 is great with a lot of acoustic stuff or even any other recordings that might benefit from a lighter, airier sound. While the upper mids and highs are more subdued on the HD650 the AD900s have an overall brighter sound signature. 

 That being said, even though I would describe the AD900 as light, airy and open and the HD650 as slightly darker, closed and richer; they both work well with a lot of the same music depending on my mood. If you want bass the HD650 definitely beats the AD900 although the AD900 responds well to some EQ adjustments or bass boost.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow your compass really took a beating :/. Can you give more details about how the RCA sounds different from usb?_

 

Yeah that sounds like some serious abuse.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_chum_2000_UK

 I find the HD650's are highly source dependent/picky and the reason why I think that is because they scale so well with better grades of gear in front of them (amp and source). I have no veil with mine although before I modified my Zero into the Frankie the highs were recessed a little.

 I think the 650 has fantastic treble extension now, the only thing(s) that changed were the quality of source in front of the amp feeding the cans and 300 hours of burn in for the 650's. Fresh 650's sound a little off until they settle.

 IMO anyway.

 Peete._

 

Hi,
 I noticed the same thing with my 650's. They LOVE the Darkvoice 337SE I have now. I don't think they are veiled or laid back. The better the amp I used on them, the better they sounded.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should move slightly, the pins are gripped by the socket, but it's not as tight as an opamp would be, due to the turned pins...

 Might find it easiest to straighten them with a thin ruler?

 I'd also be interested to know if you upper case had the padding foam the other units all seemed to have...

 ~Phewl._

 

Steak knife or butter knife.


 .


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow your compass really took a beating :/. Can you give more details about how the RCA sounds different from usb?_

 

 Sorry, I meant there was a huge difference between coaxial from my motherboard and USB. This last was kind of soft at highs with less bass, lower volume (?) and soundstage - it was very easy to hear.
 I was using USB since and looks like the difference is much small now, the same differences but small. It may be placebo but I really don't think so.


----------



## csroc

If you use coaxial it will rely on your sound card's processing and any EQ settings or other things you have on probably. That could make it sound significantly different from USB which bypasses the sound card entirely.

 edit: I just connected mine via coaxial and can't say I notice any difference between it and USB input with the first few quick checks. I did not expect to hear anything significant.


----------



## hdlovar

It's been a while since I've posted but any more reviews come out for this bad boy or what?

 I don't have time to browse through the 25+ pages that were posted since I last made an inquiry, but I'm getting antsy. I may just grab one of these things now. My hd580's have been sitting in their box waiting for a proper amp... AHHHH THE TORTURE!

 Other question would be: Has kingwa settled on a final design yet or is the compass still subject to change?

 Thanks to those who respond to me!


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hdlovar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's been a while since I've posted but any more reviews come out for this bad boy or what?

 I don't have time to browse through the 25+ pages that were posted since I last made an inquiry, but I'm getting antsy. I may just grab one of these things now. My hd580's have been sitting in their box waiting for a proper amp... AHHHH THE TORTURE!

 Other question would be: Has kingwa settled on a final design yet or is the compass still subject to change?

 Thanks to those who respond to me!_

 

Last I heard from this thread, a V2 will be released that will include a few changes like a "bright" "neutral" "soft1" and "soft2" settings. I think there was some other minor change, like line out or something to do with the preamp out feature.


----------



## Currawong

I did some HDAM rotation in the Compass yesterday. It was interesting again trying the Sun and Earth. They have much of the presentation I observed in them before, with the Sun the most forward, Earth neutral and Moon smoother.

 I hope to focus on comparing the headamp section to my C2C and ST3 in the next couple of days. The handy this is, using Super mode, I can use the same ICs even when using the DAC in the compass, so there's some more consistency.


----------



## senn_liu

Any of the test users able to comment on how the compass measures up to the RSA predator, based on initial impressions? Is it a close fight, or is there a clear superior one? Only talking about SQ, not portability (that's a no-brainer).

 Thanks.


----------



## haloxt

I sort of want to see a opamp switch in compass v2. Overkill but would be an interesting way to showcase all three hdam's.


----------



## mbd2884

For ASIO with Compass two things seemed to improve sound a bit more.

 I don't have it resample to 48khz, just straight 44.1 khz. This is set in both foobar and ASIO4ALL settings. No resample.

 The latency compensation is set to 0 samples for both in and out.

 Seemed to make a difference, or at least I like it this way.


----------



## godluvsxs

Getting the compass soon, interesting to see how the Compass fares against the famed Benchmark DAC-1 in terms of DAC capability, got a strong feeling Compass may get the nod this time


----------



## mbd2884

Hmm the Benchmark DAC-1 USB is 1,300 USD DAC. I would hope the Benchmark wins by a significant margin in this instance.


----------



## Currawong

I'm going to take the compass to a friend's place to compare it to the non-USB version. I expect the Benchmark, even if the Compass isn't considerably far off it, can scale better with higher quality sources. My Northstar, for example, isn't 10x as good as the Compass from my MacBook Pro using a high quality optical cable. I'm sure using its matching transport connected via I2S, the Northstar would be considerably better.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm going to take the compass to a friend's place to compare it to the non-USB version. I expect the Benchmark, even if the Compass isn't considerably far off it, can scale better with higher quality sources. My Northstar, for example, isn't 10x as good as the Compass from my MacBook Pro using a high quality optical cable. I'm sure using its matching transport connected via I2S, the Northstar would be considerably better._

 

I think that the Compass can also benefit from a higher quality source if it behaves like the DAC-100 (they should sound the same according to Kingwa).
 In my listening tests, the sound coming from the coax input is better than the usb input. However, the coax input is very sensitive to the digital interconnect used and to the latency settings of the EMU 0404 USB (that I use as a transport). This probably means that the DAC-100 and the Compass are not immune to jitter.
 Anyway, it will be very interesting to know how the Compass compares to the Benchmark DAC1.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm going to take the compass to a friend's place to compare it to the non-USB version. I expect the Benchmark, even if the Compass isn't considerably far off it, can scale better with higher quality sources. My Northstar, for example, isn't 10x as good as the Compass from my MacBook Pro using a high quality optical cable. I'm sure using its matching transport connected via I2S, the Northstar would be considerably better._

 

I wouldn't expect too much Curra...the interface won't make a night and day difference but the transport itself may. Depends on transport quality number 1, it's suspension scheme, the PSU quality and finally the quality level of the digital servo board and it's clock. It would be cool if your friend could snap a pic or two of the internals to look over. I know I'd be greatly interested in seeing those photos. It's also entirely possible I'm full of beans WRT this pairing.....I look forward to your impressions.

*Compass Shipping Update*
 On another note fellow members, my Compass is supposed to be delivered today (according to the tracking page). I'll believe that when the doorbell rings. At least it's been updated and is supposed to be on it's way to me. The COD charge amount is a mystery ATM. If it arrives today the review will be posted a week from Friday (tomorrow). That's assuming everything works as it should.

 I'll post pics of it when it arrives. To say I'm relieved by this turn of events is a slight understatement. 

 EDIT: It's here and I'm in the process of taking pics etc.... No damage from shipping but I will have to let it warm up to room temp before testing electrical functions (it's very cold outside right now at -16C). 

 Initial Impression-

 It's a heavy duty piece of kit that's for sure. A+ on build quality and an A on internal assembly quality. Fit and finish a solid A -. Some small cosmetic issues but nothing major. It makes a great first impression at first glance from the shipping carton, that is more important than it may seem (to some at least).

 Pics to follow shortly.


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For ASIO with Compass two things seemed to improve sound a bit more.

 I don't have it resample to 48khz, just straight 44.1 khz. This is set in both foobar and ASIO4ALL settings. No resample.

 The latency compensation is set to 0 samples for both in and out.

 Seemed to make a difference, or at least I like it this way._

 

Keep the source file and sample rate "bit-perfect" avoid any re/up sampling like the plague.

 This is the best way to ensure max quality from your computer transport. Software/Hardware resampling and upsampling is a degradation of the original source file's ultimate SQ IMHO. The latency set at zero may give you some problems...it's best to double check what the correct setting for your hardware may be. Make sure the buffer size is optimum in ASIO4ALL (see ReadMe txt for suggested settings). 

 Peete.


----------



## oqvist

Very interesting since I am the hunt for my first standalone DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 How good is the amplifier btw compared to a Heed Canamp? Is it obvious that I would only use the DAC or may the amp be better for my D5000/PRO 900...? As for the DAC the homepage is loading so slowly that even after 5 minutes I can´t see the pricing yet but how would it compare to a Keces TA 131.1 DAC? Otherwise there is no plans for the compass to have balanced outputs when using it´s amp?


----------



## mbd2884

Its designed to be an alternative to the Zero, so no its not a balanced DAC or Amp and no plans for such. You will have to spend far greater sums of money to attain that.

 The Compass was designed to be used with Denon D200+ series of headphones though.

 Its far more versatile than the KECES TA 131.1 and I already differentiated the vast differences in design between the KECES and Compass. Complete and total different designs.


----------



## csroc

There has been talk of a higher grade/higher priced model in the future (in this thread). No idea if Kingwa actually plans to do that or not, but should he choose to do so I'm sure it might possibly be an upgraded/upscale cousin to the Compass.


----------



## oqvist

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its designed to be an alternative to the Zero, so no its not a balanced DAC or Amp and no plans for such. You will have to spend far greater sums of money to attain that.

 The Compass was designed to be used with Denon D200+ series of headphones though.

 Its far more versatile than the KECES TA 131.1 and I already differentiated the vast differences in design between the KECES and Compass. Complete and total different designs._

 

Great on what page? edit: Well I found that but that was from what you seen on paper not actual use so no offense pretty useless comparison 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. If anything I do believe in less is more. 

 Getting as good of a DAC as possible is priority number one. Amp is not necessary but a nice bonus. I haven´t noticed that much difference running different amps as long as they give sufficient with juice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great on what page? edit: Well I found that but that was from what you seen on paper not actual use so no offense pretty useless comparison 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. If anything I do believe in less is more. 

 Getting as good of a DAC as possible is priority number one. Amp is not necessary but a nice bonus. I haven´t noticed that much difference running different amps as long as they give sufficient with juice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..._

 

My posting began a meaningless slapfest between myself and other Head-Fier, but despite it all, my post provides a simple differentiations between the Compass and KECES design, due to I believe he read too much into my enthusiasm over the Compass as a bashing of KECES, which it was not.

 Its pretty much discrete design vs a minimalist integrated circuit design. Very different. Depends on what you like and hopefully there will be some listening comparisons in the future after everyone has sufficiently burned in their Compass.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5360567-post1006.html

 Here is a link to the review of the KECES 152 by TopPop and further discussions.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...lifier-401361/

 But really the pictures says it all, the difference. Discrete or Integrated. Would add the workmanship of both are stellar though.

 Courtesy of Peete, Audio-gd Compass





 Courtesy of TopPop, KECES 152


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Pics as promised.......








































 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

OMG Horray! Congratulations on your Compass Peete! Now time to burn that thing in so we may begin to read your assessment next week. I'm very much anticipating and looking forward to your impressions!

 Also great pics


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I haven´t noticed that much difference running different amps as long as they give sufficient with juice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





..._

 

In that case why bother with a comparison you won't be able detect differences in anyway ? Consider yourself lucky and buy what you think is worthy and forget about all the other stuff.....you'll be happier this way and save a bundle of coin in the process.


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks mbd ! 

 I nearly fell out of my chair today when the doorbell rang.......

 She's burning in as we speak...er type 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS Just saw the Keces shot you posted......wow.....to me it looks cheap, even cheaper than the Zero......but I've heard it's a decent little performer. I sure would like to compare one to what I have on hand to see where it might stack up. This is just my opinion folks....I said it looks cheap,not that it is cheap. I have trouble understanding it's asking price from the looks of that internal shot. Again IMO.


----------



## csroc

I had the same reaction when my doorbell rang. I knew what was coming and I wanted to hurry up and get it


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah I'm really excited you finally got yours. But I agree, a discrete design just instills more awe and well confidence in Kingwa over the 152 integrated. But even the caps on the Compass go BOOM, check me out over what is in the 152. But the 151 and 152 get plenty of love among Head-Fiers, so I have no doubt the 152 is a solid DAC/AMP combo Mid-Fi product. If I didn't see the Compass thread a month ago, good chance I would be sitting here with either a KECES 152 or a KECES 151 with a Little Dot Amp.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks mbd ! 

 I nearly fell out of my chair today when the doorbell rang.......

 She's burning in as we speak...er type 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS Just saw the Keces shot you posted......wow.....to me it looks cheap, even cheaper than the Zero......but I've heard it's a decent little performer. I sure would like to compare one to what I have on hand to see where it might stack up. This is just my opinion folks....I said it looks cheap,not that it is cheap. I have trouble understanding it's asking price from the looks of that internal shot. Again IMO._


----------



## mbd2884

I respect your opinion on less is more. But would add there are many here who would certainly disagree as they prefer discrete design.

 But to say just because my comparison is based on paper is useless, is just ridiculous. What's on paper tells you how the two units were built and what quality parts are in there. So for me and I'm sure others, its extremely informative and tells us what we are paying for and what the design intentions were from the manufacturers. Its like with SinglePower, who cares if the build quality is complete garbage and looks like a pig just took a dump inside of the amp. Sound isn't everything.

 And as Peete said, if you can't discern the difference among the amps why are you looking for a comparison here then? Just look for a quality DAC then and be done with it, why pay extra money for the Amp that the Compass comes with? Get a the KECES 131 or 151 or the Audio-gd DAC-100 or DacMagic or any other DAC, why waste time on a DAC/AMP combo? Makes no sense.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great on what page? edit: Well I found that but that was from what you seen on paper not actual use so no offense pretty useless comparison 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. If anything I do believe in less is more. 

 Getting as good of a DAC as possible is priority number one. Amp is not necessary but a nice bonus. I haven´t noticed that much difference running different amps as long as they give sufficient with juice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..._


----------



## Pricklely Peete

After a 2 hour warm up the Compass sounds rather whole from top to bottom ( polite,smooth sounding but detailed )....you can certainly hear the "audio-gd" voicing it has. For the record I have the stock settings and stock OPA in it. I'll switch to a burned in Earth and Moon module for the review proper to eliminate as many variables as I can since there is no way in hell I'll have 300 hours on either fresh OPA when it comes time to write and post the review. One advantage I guess to having many OPA's on hand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also have BBOPA627BP's on a browndog....want me to include that in the DAC sections evaluation ? 

 Peete.

 PS : Basic setup...Modified HK HD720 CDP Coax out to Compass ----> HD650's. Monster IDL 100 (got cheap 75% off), Kingwa's mains cable. Generic Glass TOSlink from puter via Auzen Prelude / Foobar 2000/ASIO/EAC FLAC.


----------



## haloxt

Peete,

 Any chance you have a fully burned-in Sun v2 and can second Kingwa's opinion that it might not be very compatible with the compass? I'm listening to it right now just because it was recommended against ^^.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS Just saw the Keces shot you posted......wow.....to me it looks cheap, even cheaper than the Zero......but I've heard it's a decent little performer. I sure would like to compare one to what I have on hand to see where it might stack up. This is just my opinion folks....I said it looks cheap,not that it is cheap. I have trouble understanding it's asking price from the looks of that internal shot. Again IMO._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I respect your opinion on less is more. But would add there are many here who would certainly disagree as they prefer discrete design._

 

It's a tricky thing. Some people will never care about whether they're getting some objective value for the money they spend. What's the total cost off the shelf of all the components in the Compass vs some of its competitors? I'd certainly be curious to see, either way the Compass has a much more complicated layout with more components and systems/features. If it does what you need then obviously that's important. Don't need coax or optical? Then the KECES or the Meier Cantante.2 might be fine for you.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete,

 Any chance you have a fully burned-in Sun v2 and can second Kingwa's opinion that it might not be very compatible with the compass? I'm listening to it right now just because it was recommended against ^^._

 

IMO, it isn't so much that it isn't very compatible with the Compass. It's that the Compass was designed to be neutral and smooth, which the Sun wasn't. Using the Sun may well bring the addition slam and energy that a particular user wants from their headphones...

 Compass with Sun v1 to me sounds lively, energetic, upbeat, detailed and musical - which is exactly how the Sun was designed to perform. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To me, the Compass was made for the Earth. The Moon or Sun modules can be used at the users discretion to give the final tweak of the sound, to whichever sounds the best to the owner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm off to pull my new Earth, and swap for my well-used one to see if the difference is so pronounced at ~50 hours burn-in. I'll also take the opportunity to remove the power coupling capacitors from both, to see whether they account for the difference between the two units...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## csroc

I haven't swapped the stock moon out with the Earth Kingwa sent me, but I am curious to see what that does.


----------



## haloxt

I'll have to retract what I said about the custom power cable, just went back to the moon and I no longer have that "too musical" gripe. The power conditioner I just got yesterday really turns my observations upside down, so I guess there's a lot of variables to consider when asking if you want to get the custom power cable. Connected to a normal surge protector, the cables sound very similar. Out of my power conditioner the custom cable does sound nice. Whether or not it's worth the money you'd have to ask someone who doesn't have just kingwa's custom cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Results so far:-

*OPA modules*
 Earth with loads of hours - superb.
 Earth with ~50 hours - much better than it was. Probably 85% as good as the well-used unit. I'd suggest that ~50 hours of use will give the listener a very good idea of how the end result will be.

 Capacitor removal - I removed the caps from both units. Plugging them in, the sound difference was as-above, so the difference is not down the the capacitors on the power feeds.

 Not saying they don't make a difference, but the difference between these 2 units just isn't down to the caps.

*Custom power cable*
 I'm hearing no difference to the sound, but I've not done a thorough test. I don't plan on doing so until the Compass has had many, many more hours of use to stabilise. At that point, I'll sit down and do a proper side-by-side.

 My compass has over 85 hours of constant playback so far.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## lag0a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll have to retract what I said about the custom power cable, just went back to the moon and I no longer have that "too musical" gripe. The power conditioner I just got yesterday really turns my observations upside down, so I guess there's a lot of variables to consider when asking if you want to get the custom power cable. Connected to a normal surge protector, the cables sound very similar. Out of my power conditioner the custom cable does sound nice. Whether or not it's worth the money you'd have to ask someone who doesn't have just kingwa's custom cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Do you know some power conditioners add brightness (coloration) to the music and covers up some of the details you can hear? My Monster Power HT 1000 did it, I never knew until I compared it to a regular power strip outlet. The regular power strip outlet gave more detail and music sounded less bright, everything was better. Now I use 5 PS Audio Harvesters and it lowers the background noise well without losing details and dynamics, makes the background blacker and every instrument easily heard within the ambiance. The ambiance use to be background noise and music ambiance covering the vocals and instruments but now its clear, I like the clarity. I'm thinking a good quality power cable differ from a stock power cable in respect to great EMI/RFI shielding to lower the background noise even more for a blacker background, and give some oophm to the vocals and instruments to be more resolving. I haven't tried any custom power cables, but from what I've read online that seems to be what it can do.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete,

 Any chance you have a fully burned-in Sun v2 and can second Kingwa's opinion that it might not be very compatible with the compass? I'm listening to it right now just because it was recommended against ^^._

 

I do and I will. Generally speaking I find any tipped up attributes at both frequency extremes to be undesirable, the first reason being a lot of modern recordings are already overly emphasized artificially at these frequencies to make the recording sound good across many systems they may be played back on.....which to a system capable of real fidelity sounds wholly unnatural and quite frankly...awful to these ears. I'm not saying the SUN V2 is awful...I'm just saying I swore off all EQ, tone controls and other embellishments years ago.....

 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lag0a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you know some power conditioners add brightness (coloration) to the music and covers up some of the details you can hear? My Monster Power HT 1000 did it, I never knew until I compared it to a regular power strip outlet. The regular power strip outlet gave more detail and music sounded less bright, everything was better. Now I use 5 PS Audio Harvesters and it lowers the background noise well without losing details and dynamics, makes the background blacker and every instrument easily heard within the ambiance. The ambiance use to be background noise and music ambiance covering the vocals and instruments but now its clear, I like the clarity. I'm thinking a good quality power cable differ from a stock power cable in respect to great EMI/RFI shielding to lower the background noise even more for a blacker background, and give some oophm to the vocals and instruments to be more resolving. I haven't tried any custom power cables, but from what I've read online that seems to be what it can do._

 

my furman ac-215 does add a little bit of brightness, but compared to my belkin surge protector everything is smooth and clear. I have no idea how other power conditioners or power cables sound, but ifare comparable to others then I'd say that power conditioning has a more drastic effect than power cable.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Most high quality conditioners don't add anything to the overall sound...or at least they shouldn't. I plug all my amps directly into dedicated circuits and use the conditioner on all the digital gear to keep the hash out of the semi- pristine dedicated lines. I have no issues with reduced dynamics or noise on the line....depends on your situation (local utility,wiring, age of grid) as well....I'm out in the boonies on new transformers with all power lines buried underground between here and the sub station. That must make a little bit of a difference. When I used to live in Downtown TO in a renovated 130 year old NY Brownstone, the power line quality there was awful and it effected fidelity to a pretty good degree.

 I guess there is one advantage to being out in the near middle of nowhere in a new sub division. Sucks for just about everything else though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## K3cT

Hmm... About this power conditioner, is it something like the one pictured here?






 That's something like I've been using with my PC.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Holy crap........35KVA !!! LOL...that must be some PC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That thing must weigh a ton..not sure how good it would be for audio though. Try it and find out.

 Peete.


----------



## texashorn91

Comparisons to the DAC1 would be great, I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## mbd2884

Man I hate these comments. Why do you care how a 250$ DAC stacks against a 1,300 dollar DAC. Its pretty stupid IMO. Honestly what are you expecting? Seriously what are you expecting, the Compass, a Mid-FI audio to beat one of the highest rated Audiophile DACs on the market? Just lame.

 If by, holycow, surprise, the DAC1 is superior to the Compass, you are going to run out and buy the DAC1 now? Whatever...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *texashorn91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Comparisons to the DAC1 would be great, I'm looking forward to it._


----------



## texashorn91

I'm not looking at the DAC1 as competition, I'm looking for a comparison. I have heard the DAC1, not a Zero, and a comparison to the Compass would give me a better idea as to how it sounds, and I can make a more informed decision.


----------



## haloxt

The English front page does say to compare audio-gd gear with equipment 5x the price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## mbd2884

As for the DAC1, I can understand why you want the comparison, but that doesn't mean I still don't think its lame. But lucky for you, Curra will be doing that comparison for you.

 Its still premature and early, but here is my beginner impression of the difference Moon and Earth makes.

 Moon is very smooth, its laid back. The soundstage is large, as another tester mentioned since the mids are more recessed than the Earth. Moon has great synergy with the D2000, but for AD900, its not enough fun.

 The Earth, is definitely more neutral, more detail and well more fun. You lose a little bit of the soundstage that made me go whoa the first time I heard the Compass. The Bass actually has more impact with the Earth I found so far, which probably is supported with stronger lower mids. I'm liking it so far, hopefully others here can give their opinion of Earth. 

 My experience so far, for headphones, choose the settings that play into the strengths of your headphones. I thought since the AD900s were already forward, and great on the Mids/Trebles and Soundstage, that Moon would be most beneficial. But I seem to be wrong. I think I prefer Earth.

 This all may change next week, but that's my observation so far.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy crap........35KVA !!! LOL...that must be some PC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That thing must weigh a ton..not sure how good it would be for audio though. Try it and find out.

 Peete._

 

No LOL. I'm using its little brother, the 500W version. Same layout and everything. 

 I guess I'll try it later once I get my hands on the Compass. I did some research on audio-use power conditioners and those brands will be difficult to get around here.


----------



## mbd2884

If others are wondering, when you first see the Compass as stated before, you think, damn, its build like a rock. Its solid, definitely a reason why it weighs so much.

 But when you open it up to change your Opamp or just curiosity, that's when you go, WHOA, Damn! Its so beautiful, and it just screams professionalism. Pictures here don't do it justice. If some of you choose to buy this Compass, I believe you will have the same reaction. You will just stare at the interior and be amazed. And then you will take a look again, and be amazed all over again. For a Mid-Fi competitor to the 152 and others, its truly impressive.

 Of course I'm referring to others like myself where the Compass will be the best DAC/Amp you will have personally owned so far, not tried/demoed, but owned.

 I truly believe at this promotional price, for 258 USD, you won't find a better DAC/Amp combo. As for 475+ I cannot say, but I think everyone who has tried the Compass so far will agree, at the 258 USD price mark, its worth every dollar and more.


----------



## hdlovar

Double post, my mistake.


----------



## hdlovar

How do you think a pair of 580's combined with the Earth OPA would sound through the compass? (I may have my answer with pete's review since he has a pair of 650's... or were they 600's?)

 I've always liked the idea of unadulterated sound so the whole sound-neutrality bit sounds pretty nifty to me.


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah I think you are right.

 But I know this for sure, when Kingwa was asked to design the Compass, he was asked to make sure it would drive the HD650 well, its why he provided a 19 db gain. I hope Peete will provide the review and assessment you are looking for to make your purchasing decision.

 But if you are looking for a more neutral sound with more distinct, impactful bass, Earth is the way to go. So when Kingwa sells the upgraded version, you will have to ask him sepcifically to either send you the Compass with Earth instead of Moon or just buy the Earth along with the Moon, its 20 extra dollars I think, not bad.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks mbd ! 


 PS Just saw the Keces shot you posted......wow.....to me it looks cheap, even cheaper than the Zero......but I've heard it's a decent little performer. I sure would like to compare one to what I have on hand to see where it might stack up._

 

It looks really cheap. I think it is a big g a p. Nobody uses opamp for power supplies or output.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Curra,
 Could you post a quick list of the "Common" DAC products here that are 1 bit?_

 

I wish. All but very expensive ones from what I've seen. You'd have to research it yourself though, because this discovery for me is quite recent.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete,

 Any chance you have a fully burned-in Sun v2 and can second Kingwa's opinion that it might not be very compatible with the compass? I'm listening to it right now just because it was recommended against ^^._

 

It's already been commented on, but the Sun sounds more forward and exciting than the Earth or Moon. It's fantastic with some kinds of music. Very lively. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man I hate these comments. Why do you care how a 250$ DAC stacks against a 1,300 dollar DAC. Its pretty stupid IMO. Honestly what are you expecting? Seriously what are you expecting, the Compass, a Mid-FI audio to beat one of the highest rated Audiophile DACs on the market? Just lame.

 If by, holycow, surprise, the DAC1 is superior to the Compass, you are going to run out and buy the DAC1 now? Whatever..._

 

Man I hate these comments. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hdlovar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you think a pair of 580's combined with the Earth OPA would sound through the compass? (I may have my answer with pete's review since he has a pair of 650's... or were they 600's?)

 I've always liked the idea of unadulterated sound so the whole sound-neutrality bit sounds pretty nifty to me._

 

Neutral Compass + Neutral HD-600s (which are very similar to the HD-580s) = very neutral sound. A bit lacking in fun for me. Might be a good chance to experiment with HDAM rotation though with them.


----------



## mbd2884

So Curra you prefer the Moon and Sun over the Earth?


----------



## idunno

Hi All! I've been lurking in this thread from the beginning, and am quite excited about the Compass. I'd actually decided that I needed to read the entire Zero thread (kind-of as a test for worthiness of a new toy) when I came across Currawong's brilliant idea here. Many thanks to Curra, Kingwa, and the various contributors to this thread. I almost pulled the trigger on a v1, but decided that I couldn't commit to the review process due to my current work schedule, and felt that I should leave the initial units to those who could make meaningful contributions...

 I'm pretty much decided on purchasing a v2, but am curious about a notable absence of Beyer love in this thread... Is anyone planning to test the Compass with DT-880? This thread has included a great deal of AT love, especially for the AD900 (which imho is well deserving of praise) but my AD900's have been seriously neglected since my darling DT-880's came home. I have the 2005/250 Ohm Consumer Edition, and would be most interested in hearing how it pairs with the Compass. I'm also curious about impressions with the DT-880/600 Ohm, which I've been drooling over, since my research suggests that it's the ultimate in Beyergasm. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On another note; have any of the Oceanic-6, er... Compass-18 heard an iBasso D1? I'm confident that the Compass will be an upgrade, but I'd be keen to hear impressions, since the D1 is my only reference for an external DAC or HP amp. Fyi/fwiw, I'm currently trying to decide between HiFlight's lm6172/isl55002ib/ths4032 and ltc6241/ad743/lmh6655 combos in my D1 (real original, I know). I'm thinking that the Earth OPA will best suit my tastes, but am tempted to get all three...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No LOL. I'm using its little brother, the 500W version. Same layout and everything. 

 I guess I'll try it later once I get my hands on the Compass. I did some research on audio-use power conditioners and those brands will be difficult to get around here._

 

I didn't mean it as an insult...far from it. I was merely stating that thing is mega powerful....the 500W little brother sounds like a worthwhile experiment and should give you some benefits although industrial line stabilizers may be noisier than their audio brethren. It's tough to say....now if it's a Lab quality version that's a different story altogether...it should be very good. You'll soon be able to test it out and tell us. I know I'd like to find a non boutique type that does as good a job as it's expensive cousins....that would be very cool in fact. My line V is always high...I need to get it down to a constant 120V from it's current 127V average. For the sake of my tube gear at least that runs best at 115V.

*DAC1 debate*

 About the Benchmark.......wouldn't it be interesting if the Compass turned out to be the better performer ? It could happen,anything is possible. I bet the Compass will acquit itself very well against such well known competition. That would certainly be a fun comparison. Isn't Curra doing this very thing at a friends place sometime soon.....maybe I'm wrong.

 One thing I can say for absolute certain, if I had 1.4K US to spend right now it wouldn't be on a DAC1 Pre....it'd be spent on Reference 1 DAC faster than you could say fruity booty (dumb fruit loops commercial) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## oqvist

Well as I said my main interest is the DAC not hte amp because I hear big difference between different sources. As for amp the improvements is slighter so that´s why I am more interested in the DAC part of it rather than the amp... plus the fact that as I said I don´t expect my soundcards to last a life time. 
 So yes I do believe there is a difference between different DACs.

 As for build quality well as you say I want something that last a lifetime... There is less that can brake on the Keces it looks like on pictures. I also care about sound if something cost 10$ to produce or cost 500$ and is way superior to a DAC that costs 200$ to produce and costs 400$ I would get the 500$ dac no question even if they guy does rob me... I guess I pay for the research and brains on the engineer rather then parts then.

 But great to see that reviews are coming. I will certainly wait for a while seeing how the word goes.


----------



## mbd2884

I'll refrain, your postings are just beyond weird oqvist. Totally make not sense at all to me, but I'll end it there.


----------



## godluvsxs

cease fire, guys ... better stay cool for more user reviews and curra's audacious attempt taking the Compass fight against the famed DAC-1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Personally heard the DAC-1 once before, not really impress me, bright, detailed, lean, unemotional!


----------



## moodyrn

X2. What mbd2884 said. If you're so into the keces, then by all means get one.


----------



## mbd2884

Yep sorry, just his odd posting is so weird.


----------



## godluvsxs

I'm wondering what connection u guys using to connect the Compass to your transport? USB? Better try the coax or spdif, tried both USB and coax connection with audio-gd DAC100, actually coax does sound more refined and detailed which Kingwa approves too. Dont waste the DIR9001 digital receiver chip 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If Compass(with EARTH) sounds something like DAC100(EARTH), I think USB connected Compass would be on the same level as Marantz CD17 according to Kingwa's in depth DAC100 review against Marantz CD16

 "接IBM声音有点粗，细腻稍有不足，但不严重，如果以个人回忆感受而言，就象本世纪生产的马兰士CD17 与我的CD16差不多吧。"

 Connecting to IBM notebook(USB), it does sounds abit rough, abit less refined as desired but it's not too noticeable, according to what I heard before, it's kinda sounds like the difference between Marantz CD17 and Marantz CD16.


 "USB DAC联接IBM与马兰士的模拟输出的区别。播放器还是用BEO。DAC这时的清晰度介于马兰士模拟输出与 DAC联接马兰士数字输出间，比马兰士模拟输出略好，音色相近，音场分离度好。"

 The different between connecting DAC100(USB) with IBM and Marantz CD16, while playback software still using BEO. Now DAC100's cleanness is between Marantz CD16's analog output and DAC100 connect with Marantz CD16's digital output, it does sound clearer compare to Marantz CD16's analog output, similar sound quality while soundstage, separation is good

http://bbs.audio-gd.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=2&Id=18257


----------



## mbd2884

The whole point of getting the Compass for me was to skip the Soundcard completely. So for me using the spdif, it defeats the entire reason why I bought the Compass.

 But yes I prefer the sound out of USB with ASIO output, 16 bit, 44.1 khz, no degradation, pure data.

 Good luck with your decision


----------



## sandchak

To Peete

 I am glad your compass arrived and wasn't stuck at customs for weeks like my friend in Canada had experienced. Well I guess the time has come for some serious review of Compass.

 About power conditioners, there is a little known company in Yugoslavia called Dezorel, they use the minimalist approach and I have the smallest version of their filter. In my experience it never adds anything to the tonality, but yes it does make it sound more clean, which enhances the sound stage and dynamics of the music.

 As for something lasting a lifetime, I think its a tough call when it comes to electronics, I have had experienced notably very highly regarded equipments last only a few months and some cheap stuffs last long.. as for the build, I think Compass is built like a tank, by the looks to me it feels if something falls on top of the pictured KECES it has more chances to crash rather than the Compass, and honestly with so much space inside the KECES, I think it would have been good if somehow the power transformer was shielded in someway.. and if talking about just whats inside one can also say, theres pretty much nothing there for it to break, to me the KECES looks very cheaply made - but then one never knows, it could outperform compass.. someone needs to do a side by side test to confirm that, although I'll put my money on Compass..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I nearly fell out of my chair today when the doorbell rang.......

 She's burning in as we speak...er type 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

YAAAAAY, Peete! Congratulations! [Pops champagne, lights fireworks] Ok, I'm a little late, but time-zones you know... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Any clue at all why customs kept it for so long?


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man I hate these comments. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

*DAC 1:*
 And I actually like them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I mean, what's the worst that could happen? If the DAC1 turns out to be way better than the Compass, what that says to me is how much there is to be gained by spending more money on a DAC.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm pretty much decided on purchasing a v2, but am curious about a notable absence of Beyer love in this thread... Is anyone planning to test the Compass with DT-880? This thread has included a great deal of AT love, especially for the AD900 (which imho is well deserving of praise) but my AD900's have been seriously neglected since my darling DT-880's came home. I have the 2005/250 Ohm Consumer Edition, and would be most interested in hearing how it pairs with the Compass. I'm also curious about impressions with the DT-880/600 Ohm, which I've been drooling over, since my research suggests that it's the ultimate in Beyergasm. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Glad you like your Beyers! I own a pair of Beyer DT880 (250 ohm, 2005) and I've actually grown to like them less and less over time. (As is not unusual, I'm afraid.) But before I start bashing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I do have to say that it does depend on what music you use the Beyers with. Could you tell me what kind of music you listen to? I'll try to find something similar and let you know how they perform with it. (If you feel this is getting too specific, we can also do this by PM.) I will be posting about how I feel the Beyers perform in general with the Compass at some point in the future. But right now I've only clocked a few hours on the Compass.


----------



## senn_liu

is it possible to place a pre-order now, or do we have to wait till kingwa has the units ready?


----------



## mbd2884

Yep. I'm sure you can. Just email Kingwa, he replies faster than anyone I have dealt with for an online purchase.

 But you won't receive it for a while as I think he is waiting for more reviews and feedback from the 18. Then he will start shipping out the v2. But I'm sure if you don't care about pre-amp, gain switch, you can just ask him to send you a prototype Compass, which I have no doubts you will enjoy immensely.

 Also he won't ship anything until after the Chinese New Years is over.

 But I don't think you will have long to wait, he seems very fast in making the changes he wants to make.


----------



## csroc

Somehow I don't think he'd ship the prototypes but who knows? I thought I read he was reluctant to even accept money for a Compass right now until he has our feedback (the Compass-18) and is working on the revision.


----------



## mbd2884

Yep I think you are right. But considering how accommodating he has been with his customers, I wouldn't be surprised if he would be willing to send out a prototype.

 Either way, the best thing to do is to email him and find out. He's pretty clear in his emails, and very pleasant to communicate with.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Somehow I don't think he'd ship the prototypes but who knows? I thought I read he was reluctant to even accept money for a Compass right now until he has our feedback (the Compass-18) and is working on the revision._


----------



## sandchak

I don't think he will ship prototype Compass even if you write to him, he has only one left and he is using himself!! and in any case he has promised free shipping to and fro to 18, if I was in his place I wouldn't want to add one more to that list, considering the promotional price of Compass..


----------



## csroc

Yeah from what I gather there will be no more Compasses (Compii? argh I'm too tired) being sold/shipped until the final version is out. And at that point I wonder if the Compass-18 will be the first to get any of them. I'm actually curious how many people are chomping at the bit to order them, and how many there will be when he's actually accepting money/orders again.

 I'm sure he needs to keep one around for himself as a guinea pig/workhorse or to listen to and test himself... particularly so he can compare it to the final version.

 In any case, I plan to send him my initial findings next week. Possibly Monday evening which gives me a full week with my Compass.

 P.S.- Kudos to whoever came up with Compass-18 like the Oceanic-6 from Lost. It's stuck in my head now


----------



## oqvist

well mbd what do you have against Keces? I am interesting to know since I see a pattern here... you jump on anyone that even names them lol

 I don´t have much experience so I don´t have any alliances and try to get information from people with more experience in here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am not set on any DAC yet just throwing it out there those I found that looks interesting. Compass, Keces, Zhaolu, DacMagic. I don´t rule out going all out on a Lavry DA 10 or Benchmark Dac1 which seems to be safe bets around here lol.


----------



## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its pretty much discrete design vs a minimalist integrated circuit design. Very different._

 

There is more transistors in each integrated op-amp than in its discrete equivalent so going discrete is minimalistic actually. On the other hand, as I said before and you didn't remember, discrete makes most sense when it's not an op-amp architecture. Op-amp is not a chip, it's a circuit. Audio-gd constructed them as a decent replacement for mid-class chip op-amps not just because it's a greatest idea of a discrete analog stage. It is not. 
  Quote:


 Depends on what you like and hopefully there will be some listening comparisons in the future after everyone has sufficiently burned in their Compass. 
 

I agree but each time somebody proposes a comparison to something from a higher class, you abuse word "stupid". It does make sense to compare to something like Benchmark DAC1 because it's a well known DAC and for $250 price region might be used as the reference. You can evaluate its sonic capabilities this way. To find out which DAC is the $250 best buy you have to compare all competitors at a time. Good luck on gathering the equipment.


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad you like your Beyers! I own a pair of Beyer DT880 (250 ohm, 2005) and I've actually grown to like them less and less over time. (As is not unusual, I'm afraid.)_

 

Yeah, I've been trying to ignore the naysayers, but even in my fanboyism I do admit the DT-880's are not perfect... I haven't put much research into my next step beyond them yet; most of my exploration has been centered around closed cans for use at work, and I'm currently testing out the DT-250 for that purpose. For home use, I'd be thrilled if I could find something like the DT-880 with deeper bass and slightly less bright, but without sacrificing any of the luscious mids and soundstage .... any thoughts?


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you tell me what kind of music you listen to? I'll try to find something similar and let you know how they perform with it._

 

Great, thanks! I listen to a variety; mostly rock/alternative/indie, but also folk (acoustic), some jazz, electronica, some world music and fusion, and a very limited amount of classical... My standard HP test playlist includes; Afro Celt, Ben Harper, Cat Power, Death Cab, Eric Clapton (Unplugged), Modest Mouse, Norah Jones, Plants and Animals, Regina Spektor, Sasha Dobson, Snow Patrol, The Killers, The National, The Smashing Pumpkins, The White Stripes, Tom Petty.


----------



## mbd2884

I actually don't have any problems. I've stated on this thread before if the Compass wasn't available I would most likely be sitting here with a 152.

 With you, your posts just make no sense at all. Of all the posters on this forum, you are the oddest and most irritating to me. I don't mind the responses I've gotten from Majkel, he has good intentions, but you make no sense at all to me, just completely weird and irrational.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well mbd what do you have against Keces? I am interesting to know since I see a pattern here... you jump on anyone that even names them lol

 I don´t have much experience so I don´t have any alliances and try to get information from people with more experience in here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am not set on any DAC yet just throwing it out there those I found that looks interesting. Compass, Keces, Zhaolu, DacMagic. I don´t rule out going all out on a Lavry DA 10 or Benchmark Dac1 which seems to be safe bets around here lol._


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually don't have any problems. I've stated on this thread before if the Compass wasn't available I would most likely be sitting here with a 152.

 With you, your posts just make no sense at all. Of all the posters on this forum, you are the oddest and most irritating to me. I don't mind the responses I've gotten from Majkel, he has good intentions, but you make no sense at all to me, just completely weird and irrational._

 

From http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/en-files.htm

  Quote:


 Furthermore, we invite you to compare our products with those by well-known manufacturers which price 5 times.


----------



## mbd2884

Yes somehow in the numerous times I visited that website I missed that, over and over and over, because I can't read. Oh wait I quoted that earlier in this thread, stupid me. 

 My reference to his posts wasn't about the DAC1. But certainly not worth getting upset over, so I won't piss off anymore people who read way too much into my posts.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well mbd what do you have against Keces? I am interesting to know since I see a pattern here... you jump on anyone that even names them lol

 I don´t have much experience so I don´t have any alliances and try to get information from people with more experience in here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am not set on any DAC yet just throwing it out there those I found that looks interesting. Compass, Keces, Zhaolu, DacMagic. I don´t rule out going all out on a Lavry DA 10 or Benchmark Dac1 which seems to be safe bets around here lol._

 

You forgot Audio-gd Ref 1!!


 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is more transistors in each integrated op-amp than in its discrete equivalent so going discrete is minimalistic actually. On the other hand, as I said before and you didn't remember, discrete makes most sense when it's not an op-amp architecture. Op-amp is not a chip, it's a circuit. Audio-gd constructed them as a decent replacement for mid-class chip op-amps not just because it's a greatest idea of a discrete analog stage. It is not. 

 I agree but each time somebody proposes a comparison to something from a higher class, you abuse word "stupid". It does make sense to compare to something like Benchmark DAC1 because it's a well known DAC and for $250 price region might be used as the reference. You can evaluate its sonic capabilities this way. To find out which DAC is the $250 best buy you have to compare all competitors at a time. Good luck on gathering the equipment._

 



 One thing that needs to be kept in mind, this product needs to be evaluated at the $350-400 price range because that is where it is going to land at in a few months.


 .


----------



## haloxt

mbd2884,

 If I understand him correctly, he is looking specifically for a new DAC, but if the compass kicks ass he might consider that instead of a standalone DAC. Also, the reason why he asks for a comparison of head canamp vs. amp in the compass is because he doesn't know just how good the amplifier of the compass is supposed to be and he has a head canamp which he can use with the dac section of the compass if it so happens that it sounds better.


----------



## Drosera

Some of you may have read the previous version of this 'review', which was far more negative than this one. That was based on the Compass being fed by the optical out from my motherboard. I thought that would be decent and just went with it. After posting I just figured I'd listen to a little of the same stuff, but now using USB. OMG, the difference is simply shocking (for the better). Apparently the optical out of my mobo is absolutely horrendous. I would never have guessed that. I will never ever claim again that S/PDIF will in principle sound better than USB. However, USB-output appears relatively smoothed over, so I then decided to burn the play-list on cd and put that in my Pioneer hi-rez player feeding my Compass by coax. (I know, it's not much of a reference, but it will have to do for now.) The result now is far less negative, but still far from positive.

*Caution, the following is not a fair review! It's based on equipment that's hardly burned-in, with headphones I don't really like, listening to recordings that were probably mostly produced with ibuds in mind.*

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great, thanks! I listen to a variety; mostly rock/alternative/indie, but also folk (acoustic), some jazz, electronica, some world music and fusion, and a very limited amount of classical... My standard HP test playlist includes; Afro Celt, Ben Harper, Cat Power, Death Cab, Eric Clapton (Unplugged), Modest Mouse, Norah Jones, Plants and Animals, Regina Spektor, Sasha Dobson, Snow Patrol, The Killers, The National, The Smashing Pumpkins, The White Stripes, Tom Petty._

 

I just pulled some tracks at random based on your playlist. All lossless. Both the Compass and the opamps have only a few hours of burn-in. Far from ideal. Things will only get better (presumably). Oh, and please don't take all my ranting about the recordings personally, I'm just not very used to listening to modern recordings of non-acoustic music.


*Impressions with EARTH:*

*Afro Celt Sound System-Saor, Free & News from Nowhere*
 Good separation, everything in the spectrum is well presented. The wind instruments can be a bit abrasive though. Still, despite that (almost) no sibilance, which is quite a feat. Although there are few 'clicks and pops' going on that are actually part of the music but might not be meant to be prominent. Good weight to it though. Realistic timbres too. (Not something I was used to with my DT880 in combination with the Corda Opera.) Some headbobbing even, pleasantly slow-moving PRaT (if that makes any sense).

*Cat Power-You are free*
 Ok, fingerslides as musical content, it's novel. Still, they are probably not meant to be this prominent. God, soundstage the depth of a fingernail, that's not really a challenge for an Amp/DAC. Still everything is there, well separated, pleasant drive to it. Hefty guitar sound with perhaps more detail than is comfortable. Beefy sound.

*Modest Mouse - 3rd Planet*
 (Being a classical music guy, I really do wonder. Do things really have to be recorded this unatmospherically? Oh well.) Again, same as above, but almost every guitar chord and every cymbal crash is way overprominent. Not the fault of the Compass, I'm afraid it's those Beyer highs. Cymbals are not separated, but how could they be, the recording is incredibly compressed. Still, the Compass will let you hear everything that is there in the recording.

*Snow Patrol-If there's a rocket, tie me to it*
 Aaaaah, relief. Much better production. Pleasant drive again. The Beyers will let you hear if the singer has something stuck in his teeth, and you can tell what it is too. Things are far smoother here (productionwise it might even be somewhat smoothed over, everything but the vocals. And the Compass really lets you hear how all the instruments have been squeezed through way too much electronic postproduction. Wouldn't really want to listen for much more than 10 minutes because of this, it really is exhausting.

 So, concluding, if you're going to combine the DT880 with the Compass, be prepared for some brutal honesty. Earth is more confronting, the Moon plays nicer, but you will trade in a little of the excitement the Earth will give you. Frankly, the conclusion I take away from it is that, with this combination, modern rock recordings will be quite hard to listen to. At least, if your used to hearing more atmosphere/soundstage and know how good things can sound in theory. The Afro Celt Sound System track is the clear exception and is frankly IMO also the best production of this list. But I also think that if you would go back to the AD900 things would get a lot better. My impressions are as much a comment on the unpleasant highs and ruthless resolution of the DT880 and as they are on the honesty of the Compass. There are of course still other ways around this. I have my Compass set to neutral, but there are also the Soft 1 to 3 settings. But I'm afraid to try out all of those will be a little time-consuming.

 I've seen a lot of comments lately that all equipment these days is voiced with a slightly warm signature, I'm beginning to see why. I'm actually quite shocked to hear how bad things have gotten.


----------



## sandchak

I look at it this way - If you are looking at best bang for the buck, then seriously Compass maybe right on top of the list - mind you I am talking about the promotional price of USD258, and also this price stays constant for at
 least 2-3 months, so there is ample time to pick it up before the price goes up. When Kingwa was developing Compass he was looking at USD400 for the product, at that price there are some very serious contenders for the top place. 

 Then again, there is the thing like some folks want just a DAC, which makes the Compass even less attractive.
 To be honest there are plenty of DAC in the market and in Kingwas lineup which are much better than Compass. So one has to first decide whats his budget and requirements, I mean someone saying he might even go for Lavry or higher priced DAC, has lot of other better options and shouldn't be looking at Compass (at least I wouldn't if I was sure about my buying power and requirements).

 Finally I think there is the thing in audio about diminishing returns, so if one wants to buy the best DAC in the world, he must have the system that reveals the change, in a medeocre system, you will be hard pressed to find the justifiable difference between Reference One and DAC 100 for that matter..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, concluding, if you're going to combine the DT880 with the Compass, be prepared for some brutal honesty. Earth is more confronting, the Moon plays nicer, but you will trade in a little of the excitement the Earth will give you. Frankly, the conclusion I take away from it is that, with this combination, modern rock recordings might become unlistenable. The Afro Celt Sound System track is the clear exception and is frankly IMO also the best production of this list. But I also think that if you would go back to the AD900 things would get a lot better. My impressions are as much a comment on the unpleasant highs of the DT880 as they are on the honesty of the Compass. There are of course still other ways around this. I have my Compass set to neutral, but there are also the Soft 1 to 3 settings. But I'm afraid to try out all of those will be a little time-consuming.

 I've seen a lot of comments lately that all equipment these days is voiced with a slightly warm signature, I'm beginning to see why._

 

I've just switched the Earth back into the Compass now that I'm over the 250 hour mark, and moved to my HD-600s with Zu cable and I have to agree with you. This combo with jazz is fantastic. The only fault I can find with the DAC section is not the fault of the compass, but that of the DA chip, which simply doesn't render piano with complete realism, but that's being very picky.

 With the HD-600s, the Compass sounds more closed-in than my C2C when listening to a live recording (Jeff Buckley on the Grace EP's: Live from the Bataclan). I suspect it's going to be a good match with headphones with a less sensitive soundstage, such as my Denons, but that's for tomorrow's testing and it's time I got some sleep.


----------



## mbd2884

Its great reading your impressions Curra, but I think one of the pleasures of not having the variety of audio gear to test, I am just in bliss with the few I have.

 Err I hope you don't read into that as an insult as it is not, far from it, as I really do enjoy reading these comparisons and impressions.


----------



## mbd2884

Exactly Sandchak, that's why I find his posts so completely irritating, borderline arrrggghh! Why did you post that! Blargh, you make no sense! 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I look at it this way - If you are looking at best bang for the buck, then seriously Compass maybe right on top of the list - mind you I am talking about the promotional price of USD258, and also this price stays constant for at
 least 2-3 months, so there is ample time to pick it up before the price goes up. When Kingwa was developing Compass he was looking at USD400 for the product, at that price there are some very serious contenders for the top place. 

 Then again, there is the thing like some folks want just a DAC, which makes the Compass even less attractive.
 To be honest there are plenty of DAC in the market and in Kingwas lineup which are much better than Compass. So one has to first decide whats his budget and requirements, I mean someone saying he might even go for Lavry or higher priced DAC, has lot of other better options and shouldn't be looking at Compass (at least I wouldn't if I was sure about my buying power and requirements).

 Finally I think there is the thing in audio about diminishing returns, so if one wants to buy the best DAC in the world, he must have the system that reveals the change, in a medeocre system, you will be hard pressed to find the justifiable difference between Reference One and DAC 100 for that matter.._


----------



## csroc

OK, I think we get it. Perhaps you can stop mocking people who ask questions you don't like now?


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah, hopefully from this point on will be just some awesome discussions of the Compass.

 But I am thoroughly enjoying Earth right now. And I'm thinking more now that, I don't like the idea of having this soft, neutral switch. There is a point where some simplicity for me is preferred. I think just keep the sound neutral. If someone needs a warmer more laid back sound, they can use the Moon. If they need more forward use the Sun, if neutral use Earth.
 - Noted that my Compass is set to neutral setting, and at 13 db gain.

 Also thinking if the only changes will be made are the gain switch and pre-amp switch, I'm thinking I may just keep my Compass as is.


----------



## senn_liu

i'm not sure what to make of comparing the compass to the benchmark dac1, but based on price and product type, i'm hoping to see some comparisons between the compass and the following desktop dac/amps which fall into the $300-$500 price range (arranged by increasing price):

 -travagan's white ($290)
 -citypulse da2.03e II ($350)
 -meier cantate.2 ($470)
 -keces da-152 ($475)

 the compass is currently $258 and will probably end up retailing for $350-$400, so i believe these will be its main rivals.


----------



## csroc

I agree senn, I think those are the competition for the Compass and I would be curious to hear how it stands up. 

 mbd, I'd probably swap my compass out for a lowered gain alone.


----------



## Drosera

So, here are my belated first impressions. I wanted to wait a little to see if I could hear some changes within the first few hours. Now I've clocked about 10 hours on it (Just ten? Yes, I'm moving slow.) I feel I can give some first notes.

 Overall impressions are that this is an excellent piece of equipment. Really, I can't find anything wrong with it in build quality or design. With perhaps the exception of the slightly high gain settings, but those have already been extensively discussed. And even those aren't problematic to me.

 I'm using Earth, because this is the opamp that gives me both the sound that I want to hear from the Compass and the sound signature I expect from Audio-gd. The Compass is set to neutral at low gain.

*Test track: *Shostakovich-Symphony nr.15-London Philharmonic Orchestra/Haitink (Decca)
 1. Movement-Allegretto 
 This is my go-to test track. I've heard it through the years on all sorts of equipment and I know it intimately.

*Headphones: *AKG K.500

*My first impressions at t=0.*
 Pretty good sound altogether, sound stage and spatial cues are well represented, but there isn't too much of either, so it's quite direct with slightly too little atmosphere. There's some grain in the upper mids and highs and some artificial sameness in instrumental colour (but not that much). Very good separation/differentiation and pretty good dynamics too. Although high-pitched percussion could be slightly better defined (bit echoey), all in all a rather beefy full sound.

*At t=10 hours*
 Separation seems to have increased (a lot actually) and it was hardly bad to begin with, instrument definition too and there's a much better representation and differentiation of instrumental colour (more natural). All of this embedded in a larger soundstage than previously. The graininess from before seems mostly gone, high-pitched percussion is much better focussed now and dynamics are significantly better defined. Bass is a bit tighter too. Still there's still a touch of sibilance and grain in the highs, especially noticeable with combined cymbal crashes.
 All in all, I must say that this second impression is about as good as I've ever heard it. No small praise, because I've heard this track played on some quite high-grade equipment. (Although never the most esoteric of fi.)

 For those of you getting 'modest' in proposals for comparison, please, don't be. As I see it, this thing can take on some of the best in its (projected) 400$ price range and far beyond.


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## mbd2884

Yeah Drosera I did notice the trebles were a bit high. But they do settle down. I've been leaving it on at home with volume a little high when at work. But soon as get home I start music. Listen to it, keep it burning over night.

 Its settled down a lot since I first started to listen to it on Jan 26th.


----------



## oqvist

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mbd2884,

 If I understand him correctly, he is looking specifically for a new DAC, but if the compass kicks ass he might consider that instead of a standalone DAC. Also, the reason why he asks for a comparison of head canamp vs. amp in the compass is because he doesn't know just how good the amplifier of the compass is supposed to be and he has a head canamp which he can use with the dac section of the compass if it so happens that it sounds better._

 

Nice to hear my english is not that bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





... At least one head fier can interprete it correctly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

 I found a Zhalu 2.5 on sale here from another fellow which counting shippind and ev VAT is half the price so will go with that for an entry DAC. May be good enough for my needs hopefully if nothing else I have money left to upgrade later.


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## Sganzerla

I have 50 hours on mine and my impression is the same as Drosera, at 30 hours it was the same description of your 10 hours to a larger extent.

 But I think the grainy highs are still there, a little, but there. Hope this gets better soon. I'm with Earth too, and if it happens the same as with Zero, the big difference in sound will happen in the next 25/50 hours.


----------



## sandchak

Nice review Drosera, as far as I recollect you said you picked up some extra cables from Kingwa, does it include the power cable??..

 From my listening, out of the box Compass had some graininess on the highs - this was with the new Earth and stock cables, when I switched to my old moon and custom cables, that harshness was gone (in fact the sound character itself changed, which I think was because of the moon) - but I could not attribute that to the cables as I changed both the cables and mature moon together..

 This morning I installed the fresh Earth back and let the custom cables be there, the result - yes it did make things more clear and less grainy on the tops, so maybe the cable does this trick - at least to my ears and my experience with power cables in the past.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah Drosera I did notice the trebles were a bit high. But they do settle down. I've been leaving it on at home with volume a little high when at work._

 

No real problem with the amount of treble for me. I do hope that it won't start to role off later on. 'Grain' in the treble has more to do with the continuity of the high notes (I'm talking about the 16-17KHz region), they don't quite 'sing' yet as they should.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice review Drosera, as far as I recollect you said you picked up some extra cables from Kingwa, does it include the power cable??.._

 

No, afraid not, I just got digital coaxes (RCA) and an analog interconnect from Kingwa. (Beautiful cables, more than worth their very modest price.) I might get power cables later on. At least, when I read enough reports about them making a difference. Do you know if Kingwa can make them with a Schuko-plug? I don't know how aware he is of the different plugs being used throughout the world, I received my Compass with a powercord with an American plug. (No problem of course, plenty of power cords lying around here.) I also read that you bought just a powercord without plugs. Maybe I should have thought of that.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have 50 hours on mine and my impression is the same as Drosera, at 30 hours it was the same description of your 10 hours to a larger extent.

 But I think the grainy highs are still there, a little, but there. Hope this gets better soon. I'm with Earth too, and if it happens the same as with Zero, the big difference in sound will happen in the next 25/50 hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, if I understand Peete correctly, for the full effect you need to put in way more time than that. No problem really, I love the journey. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I must emphasise the grain I'm hearing is a very subtle. I could live with it fine, I probably wouldn't even hear it if I wasn't concentrating on it. But that will for a large part depend on the headphones of course, K701s will definitely let you hear more grain.
 I'll start experimenting some more with different headphones later on.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have 50 hours on mine and my impression is the same as Drosera, at 30 hours it was the same description of your 10 hours to a larger extent.

 But I think the grainy highs are still there, a little, but there. Hope this gets better soon. I'm with Earth too, and if it happens the same as with Zero, the big difference in sound will happen in the next 25/50 hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

50 hours is just the beginning, at least for the OPA module. I've a fully burned-in one from months ago, and a fresh one with my Compass. After 50 hours on the fresh one, it's only around 80-85% of the quality of the fully burned-in example. The bass will become fuller, the width of the music presented will increase by a good margin, whilst you'll be finding greater detail in the uppers.

 This doesn't take into account whether the Compass will also improve with hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice to hear my english is not that bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





... At least one head fier can interprete it correctly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

 I found a Zhalu 2.5 on sale here from another fellow which counting shippind and ev VAT is half the price so will go with that for an entry DAC. May be good enough for my needs hopefully if nothing else I have money left to upgrade later._

 

You may want to check out the mod thread for that unit at diyaudio.com....it has some issues that can be fixed for the most part....but I'll let you do the reading ....basically speaking it has potential on tap but in stock form it's not all that great. The mods are fairly straight forward though....get yourself a soldering iron and have some fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The mods are similar in end result SQ to the FrankenZERO although I haven't compared them directly. From the descriptions of the members from diyaudio they sound similar in ability to me. YMMV.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Some Compass Thoughts directed at the group and no one in particular*

 As I sat here listening to yet another CD.....a thought suddenly dawned on me.....the characteristics I'm hearing right now with the fresh front end of the amp (basically speaking this is a customizable Earth unit with the soft settings) is an awful lot like the Earth module did in the FrankenZERO *before* break in (last summer).....the same sound sigs and signposts. It's all very very familiar to me. I've spent the last 3 hours ruminating over this as I listened to great recordings from 3 genres.....the same closed in SS, shrunken imaging, grainy upper mids and rolled off highs that a fresh OPA goes through. The bass was slightly lean at 100 hrs...that is in line with the progression of the HDAM's in the Zero and the FrankenZERO. Well that's really not surprising considering the HDAMs and the unit are from the same manufacturer.

 This is definitely not an accurate representation of my or the Compasse's abilities right now...I fully expect by this time Sunday afternoon (when the unit hits the 172 hour mark ) the SQ signposts will mirror my experiences with Frank (although not exactly )....that is, the bass will be fuller and more controlled, mids will have bloomed a little in depth and height as well as lose the upper mid grainy quality, the highs will refine and become far more ethereal in nature and decay will begin to sound "right". 

 At 172 hours the HDAM circuits are at the halfway point....the hypothesis above I feel will likely be the burn in progression with some slight twists. Here is twist or curve ball no 1. The PSU section of the entire unit is very similar to the module sold by Kingwa and one that I'm familiar with from it's use with the KHA IID project ....it looks as though he's used 2 of those in the Compass PSU ( a variation of it obviously). With that said these PSU types take a long time to settle. The large Nover caps take quite a while all on their own so this twist combined with the 2 modules (one fixed and one not) that are in the midst of changes will mean the Compass (as Tyson and I correctly predicted) will improve long after 350 hours has passed with a min time estimated (again for hands on practical experience) of at least 750 hours. Curve ball no 2 is has to do with ancillary components, like COAX cable type,construction, source quality, mains cable differences, presence of line conditioners etc etc....luckily I have loads of all types makes and brands to test (except for the line conditioner...I only have 1 of those). I know cabling and such is a touchy subject but I feel this has to be explored as does all manner of source. I feel this aspect of the forthcoming review will be the most time consuming to document but I will post my findings nevertheless with the review proper. Kingwa has seen fit to provide me with all three types of digital cable (2 of which are standard with the Compass) and his best mains cable. I have on hand 4 COAX types, 4 Optical types, 7 IC types, and 5 mains cable types. Hopefully this variety will help me to establish differences from stock throw ins to aftermarket additions. The mains cable types are cheapo bog standard 14 gage (garbage IMO) to 2 DIY flavors at 2 tier levels (John Risch recipe and another far more advanced DIY recipe of my own) to off brands like YYW and of course Kingwa's design. IC from AR and Monster to MIT, BetterCable and Nordost...you get the idea. I want to see if curve ball no 2 has a great influence on the Compasses abilities and as such should be explored in full (with what I have on hand at least). Sure it's nothing impressive like some have here but I feel the variety I have represents the budget to mid fi bracket that will most likely be used with the Compass and it's source components. In that light curve ball 2 is rather important IMO. I also have a feeling that CB no 2 may be the second most controversial subject outside of the existence of burn in but I cannot in good faith ignore the possible improvements that may apply (especially so when I have the gear on hand to test). 

 I digress, back to the burn in question....

 I realize that seems like a long period of time but in reality if you were to mod it with Black Gate and Teflon film foil capos you'd be looking at 750-1000+ hours just for those parts alone so it's all relative to parts used....the massive build of this unit mirrors Kingwa's design philosophy to a "T" and as such the time needed for this unit doesn't surprise me in the least.

 What that means is the improvements will keep coming long after the initial reviews are posted (for the 300 hour mark). In light of that I will post follow ups (in detail ) at 600 hours and 900 hours and possibly even 1.2K hours if further change is noted between 900 and 1.2K....

 I'm not saying this is written in stone...if I notice no changes past 350 hours that is where the update will end....I don;t expect that to be the case. In any event what most of us are hearing now is the tip of the iceberg IMO. This unit will kick some serious butt once burned in and settled, that's my educated guess at this point in time.

 Sorry for the long post and please remember this is all IMHO.


 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

Damn, I had no idea it took so long to burn in an amp, and how using these quality capacitors would make in burn in time. I look forward to reading some more of your findings.

 BTW did Tyson order himself a Compass also?


----------



## mbd2884

Blargh, double post


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_50 hours is just the beginning, at least for the OPA module. I've a fully burned-in one from months ago, and a fresh one with my Compass. After 50 hours on the fresh one, it's only around 80-85% of the quality of the fully burned-in example. The bass will become fuller, the width of the music presented will increase by a good margin, whilst you'll be finding greater detail in the uppers.

 This doesn't take into account whether the Compass will also improve with hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Just to make myselft clear...
 With Zero I've noticed a big sudden change around 50/75 hours mark, and later improvement around 200/250. I did even post it on the Zero thread if I remember well.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn, I had no idea it took so long to burn in an amp, and how using these quality capacitors would make in burn in time. I look forward to reading some more of your findings.

 BTW did Tyson order himself a Compass also?_

 

These are just semi-educated guesses.......it's entirely possible the unit settles far earlier than I've predicted. One thing is for sure a min of 350 hours IMO will be required. Changes beyond that will be evaluated as time goes by.....FWIW anyway.

 Again....keep in mind these are all IMHO...YMMV.

 Peete.

 PS Of course I will admit I'm wrong if it settles earlier than predicted and post a retraction...either way I'm still a long way off 300 hours to make any determination of such so...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I can't speak for Tyson but I'm sure he has some better grade head Fi stuff. The first thing I would do is use the Ref 1/DAC8's balanced outs to a suitable headphone amp worthy of that source.

 A fully tweaked SP (model eludes me), Beta 22 , RSA B-52 etc...along those lines.

 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

OH NOES!!!

 Who here is familiar with Ronald Jenkees? He is a youtube music artist who has fun on his keyboard and fruity loops. His music skill is very much of natural talent, but not well trained. If you watch his recordings its very obvious while he is good, he doesn't have the skills of a well trained, schooled and studied pianist.

 Well whatever, the point is, I listened to his album today and it sounds horrific out of the Compass. You can really tell how an amateurs recording pales in comparison in a well mastered professionally recorded album. To a point where its almost unbearable to listen to now.

 Too bad cause his stuff is quite fun on the rare occasion.


----------



## Alai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OH NOES!!!

 Who here is familiar with Ronald Jenkees? He is a youtube music artist who has fun on his keyboard and fruity loops. His music skill is very much of natural talent, but not well trained. If you watch his recordings its very obvious while he is good, he doesn't have the skills of a well trained, schooled and studied pianist.

 Well whatever, the point is, I listened to his album today and it sounds horrific out of the Compass. You can really tell how an amateurs recording pales in comparison in a well mastered professionally recorded album. To a point where its almost unbearable to listen to now.

 Too bad cause his stuff is quite fun on the rare occasion._

 

Are you sure you're not hearing the dumb quality of youtube? I used to be able to watch things on youtube, but now, with all my new stuff, my ears die when I listen to youtube videos.


----------



## dwong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you sure you're not hearing the dumb quality of youtube? I used to be able to watch things on youtube, but now, with all my new stuff, my ears die when I listen to youtube videos._

 

Yeah it's kinda of sad, better gear has hurt my Youtube experience as well. Some of the videos in HQ are decent though.


----------



## mbd2884

Nope its 192 Variable.

 His youtube stuff are very low quality, he does sell CDs and sells on iTunes also. But point was, poorly recorded stuff is now almost unbearable to listen to, the bass just doesn't sound right. Like its cardboard, hehe, weird way to describe it, but really its like thud thud, dry and annoying. 

 On the other hand Sasha has never sounded better. And George Winston on the piano is sounding good, but room for improvement; I think it will take some more burn in before solo piano start to shine on the Compass.


----------



## Tyson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn, I had no idea it took so long to burn in an amp, and how using these quality capacitors would make in burn in time. I look forward to reading some more of your findings.

 BTW did Tyson order himself a Compass also?_

 

Nah, I have the DAC8 and a Singlepower Supra, so I'm all good on the sound quality front 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will be upgrading the DAC8 to Ref1 status though, once it's available.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tyson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nah, I have the DAC8 and a Singlepower Supra, so I'm all good on the sound quality front 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will be upgrading the DAC8 to Ref1 status though, once it's available._

 


 Quit your winkin' and smilin'!!

 Can you upgrade the DAC8 to a Ref1 easily with just the DSP? Or does your DAC go back to China?



 .


----------



## Tyson

I believe it's just a board swap. Should be doable in the field.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, afraid not, I just got digital coaxes (RCA) and an analog interconnect from Kingwa. (Beautiful cables, more than worth their very modest price.) I might get power cables later on. At least, when I read enough reports about them making a difference. Do you know if Kingwa can make them with a Schuko-plug? I don't know how aware he is of the different plugs being used throughout the world, I received my Compass with a powercord with an American plug. (No problem of course, plenty of power cords lying around here.) I also read that you bought just a powercord without plugs. Maybe I should have thought of that._

 

Yeah, both the shark interconnects and canare coaxs are pretty good for its price, although I find the shark a tad brighter than my vdh d102 hybrids which maybe due to silver or its just too new while the VDH has been in use for over 5 years now.. anyway, kingwa only makes the power cables with the US style plugs, he is very well aware of different plugs used all over the world, but he kind of standardized on the US model - even in China where more than 90% of his sales occur, people that buy from him usually buy an adapter or install female US sockets for audio use..
 actually you could also just get the bare cables like I did, and make your own finished cable, in this way I think you will save some money ..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope its 192 Variable.

 His youtube stuff are very low quality, he does sell CDs and sells on iTunes also. But point was, poorly recorded stuff is now almost unbearable to listen to, the bass just doesn't sound right. Like its cardboard, hehe, weird way to describe it, but really its like thud thud, dry and annoying. 

 On the other hand Sasha has never sounded better. And George Winston on the piano is sounding good, but room for improvement; I think it will take some more burn in before solo piano start to shine on the Compass._

 

Shocking, isn't it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Compass really is not into smoothing things over. I'm used to listening the different kinds of music that are in the rule quite well recorded, so I was completely shocked to hear how much horrendous recording is done these days. You could try to find the stuff in lossless format, perhaps it improves matters, but, yeah, doubtful... In the last few months I often heard people complaining about their (mainly rock and pop) recordings and how they would by them and subsequently sell all the bad recordings again, because they were unlistenable to them. I always thought they were just exaggerating...

 Then again, I do listen to a lot of mono recordings from before WWII and other stuff of less fidelity (Russian recordings of classical music for instance), it might be time to check if they're still bearable.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: I just checked out Ronald Jenkees on youtube. That's some lovely stuff.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, both the shark interconnects and canare coaxs are pretty good for its price, although I find the shark a tad brighter than my vdh d102 hybrids which maybe due to silver or its just too new while the VDH has been in use for over 5 years now.. anyway, kingwa only makes the power cables with the US style plugs, he is very well aware of different plugs used all over the world, but he kind of standardized on the US model - even in China where more than 90% of his sales occur, people that buy from him usually buy an adapter or install female US sockets for audio use..
 actually you could also just get the bare cables like I did, and make your own finished cable, in this way I think you will save some money .._

 

Yeah, I considered using an adapter. But, well, whats the use of expensive plugs if you're going to put some cheap generic adapter on them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Maybe I'll just buy a bare cable. (I must say though, power cord plugs are just shockingly expensive.)


----------



## ccschua

For the DAC8 upgrade to ref, Kingwa and his staff went personaly to Hong Kong to perform the upgrade Since Kingwa has quite some followers in Hong Kong. So I guess upgrade is not mission impossible but the skills/methods and ... mishaps can be cumbersome.


----------



## dBs

Curious for those who have tested this little beasty with HD650s. I have a pair arriving next week and I am curious if this unit is good enough to lift the phones infamous "veil"? An amp will come, but not until after I can land a job after graduating...which could be some time =P Would be nice to know that my 650s will be well taken care of by this unit though =D


----------



## mbd2884

dBs there are already a number of impressions of the 600 with the Compass. And I believe Peete wrote his impression with the 650. Just gotta go back a few pages.
 - As expected people are saying it sounds great initially but a lot is changing as its being burned in. And that the new Opamps are sounding as expected from a new Opamp. Almost everyone here wants to put another 150-200 hours on their Compass before making assessments. Opamps included.


----------



## haloxt

Silly question, but since I usually use the compass with my computer on with all the noise the cpu fan generates, I never noticed until this morning that the compass emits a very low hum. I just wanted to make sure, is this normal? I left it on overnight to burn-in and I heard a twang noise and when I checked on the compass I noticed a low hum, just want to make sure nothing is fried.


----------



## mbd2884

Only time I hear a hum is if I actually place my ears on the Compass. But that hum is normal I would think, as I hear that hum in my previous stereos also, I suspect its the power source.


----------



## Currawong

Is it coming from the transformer?


----------



## 8140david

An off-topic question, for Dac lovers:
 Has any one tried the DAC of the Simaudio Moon i3.3 integrated Amplifier?
 I have put more info about this here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/dac...lifier-406561/
 I wonder, based on the specs, how good it should be as a DAC?


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it coming from the transformer?_

 

Yes, I believe so. The sound seems to emanate from the compartment near the power switch. It's almost imperceptible when my computer fan is whirling, so now I'm pretty sure something didn't pop overnight.


----------



## les_garten

I posted a response in another DAC/SC thread and got a PM from one of the Posters. I was amused because of the accusations leveled at me previously in this thread. Here's the PM with the ID of the PM'er X'd out.

 To The Tape Johnny!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XXXXXX* 
_Hello, I read some information in a thread you were mentioning products from Kingwa(Audio-GD).

 Are you affiliated with this group?
 what can you tell me about this new unit to replace the zero DAC.
 This group makes those discrete opamps also right?_

 

"""""Hi XXXXXX,
 I have no affiliation with them other than I lust after their REF 1 DAC and am getting Rid of My Yulong and Zero DAC to replace these with a Compass. I own no Audio-gd products at present. If you were to read all 10,000 posts in the Zero DAC thread you would see the Dust up I caused there because people kept advising people to buy the Zero which was a POS! So, some of the thread guru's in the Zero thread approached Audio-gd to build an alternative to the Zero, possibly just to shut my AZZ up!. 

 If you read the Compass thread, I was accused of campaigning against Audio-gd, so it's extremely amusing to me that you would ask if I was affiliated with them! I always try to be objective and not sound like a Cheerleader.

 The only remotely Audio-gd product I own is a HDAM(Discrete OPA) sold by Burson, which was manufactured by Audio-gd for Burson as per my understanding. 

 I will most likely purchase their Compass product and the REF 1 DAC.

 I would like to get a group buy up for it(REF1 DAC), are you IN?

 As far as telling you more about the Compass product, you would need to read the Compass thread. It is under rigorous evaluation at this time and is interesting reading. From the early evals there is not better to be had in the $250 Dollar range. When it goes to $400, that's different, and will need to be re-assessed, but I feel it will still be Solid in that Category also. For $258, I don't know how I couldn't buy one though.

 """"""""


----------



## thelsuman

I'm just SO impatient- I couldn't wait any longer...so I placed my Compass order with Kingwa. Of course, now I must wait until after the Chinese new year for the unit to ship.

 In the meantime, I was contemplating what kind of interconnect to use on this thing (connecting to a Marantz CD5001)- you guys have anything in mind that won't break the bank? Thx


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dBs there are already a number of impressions of the 600 with the Compass. And I believe Peete wrote his impression with the 650. Just gotta go back a few pages.
 - As expected people are saying it sounds great initially but a lot is changing as its being burned in. And that the new Opamps are sounding as expected from a new Opamp. Almost everyone here wants to put another 150-200 hours on their Compass before making assessments. Opamps included._

 

Ive read every page since about the 30s. Problem is, no one has mentioned the veil aspect of the HD650s. What has been mentioned has been very insightful to be sure, but all the things that have been said could both apply with or without the supposed 650 veil. Hence my question.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the meantime, I was contemplating what kind of interconnect to use on this thing (connecting to a Marantz CD5001)- you guys have anything in mind that won't break the bank? Thx_

 

Kingwa sells quite a decent interconnects (shark) at very affordable price, it could come with your compass and save you shipping too, unless you are in a hurry..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm just SO impatient- I couldn't wait any longer...so I placed my Compass order with Kingwa. Of course, now I must wait until after the Chinese new year for the unit to ship.

 In the meantime, I was contemplating what kind of interconnect to use on this thing (connecting to a Marantz CD5001)- you guys have anything in mind that won't break the bank? Thx_

 


 No worries Mate! It's the Year of the OX!! Supposed to be a year of Hard work!!

 After all the Fermented spirits are drank up of course! And suitable reverence for one's ancestors have been observed...



 .


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm just SO impatient- I couldn't wait any longer...so I placed my Compass order with Kingwa. Of course, now I must wait until after the Chinese new year for the unit to ship.

 In the meantime, I was contemplating what kind of interconnect to use on this thing (connecting to a Marantz CD5001)- you guys have anything in mind that won't break the bank? Thx_

 

Did you place the order for the revised version or the prototype? It's interesting because he refused to accept my money so he can sell me the upgraded version instead.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ive read every page since about the 30s. Problem is, no one has mentioned the veil aspect of the HD650s. What has been mentioned has been very insightful to be sure, but all the things that have been said could both apply with or without the supposed 650 veil. Hence my question._

 

I find rumors of the 650s veil greatly overstated with most mains powered sources of amplification. With the Compass the 650s are very articulate and clear, lots of separation and detail.


----------



## thelsuman

K3cT- I requested the unit with the gain switch (I think that's the revised version..right?). Anyway, he didn't indicate there was any problem, so hopefully there is none. When I initially contacted him re the order, he asked if I wanted to wait until the reviews were out (I think several others had a similar experience with Kingwa).


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_K3cT- I requested the unit with the gain switch (I think that's the revised version..right?). Anyway, he didn't indicate there was any problem, so hopefully there is none. When I initially contacted him re the order, he asked if I wanted to wait until the reviews were out (I think several others had a similar experience with Kingwa)._

 

I think the revised version is supposed to have pre-amp function, brighter amp section, different jumper setting and of course that gain switch. More changes may come as feedbacks come in. 

 I'll wait until the finalized version is out before I order one but it seems to me that he asked whether you want to wait or not until all the necessary changes are made based on the feedbacks from the first 18 units.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find rumors of the 650s veil greatly overstated with most mains powered sources of amplification. With the Compass the 650s are very articulate and clear, lots of separation and detail._

 

I agree with this 100%.. With the right gear in front of these they are capable of excellent "realistic" reproduction. Pretty much says it all about any system really.......synergy is absolutely critical.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_An off-topic question, for Dac lovers:
 Has any one tried the DAC of the Simaudio Moon i3.3 integrated Amplifier?
 I have put more info about this here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/dac...lifier-406561/
 I wonder, based on the specs, how good it should be as a DAC?_

 

Buy a DAC....don't buy an integrated to "get" a dac...it'll be a compromise. 

 Simple as that.


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

After some considerable time on my burn in torture test CD today (8.5 hours at 25% volume)....the Compass is starting to head in the direction expected....it is quite a bit more open, less constricted, bass is deepening and is more controlled....it is heading in the right direction for sure....upper mid grain is all gone although highs are still changing (not unexpected).....dynamics have improved, again as expected...it's very similar to the OPA and Frankie experience.

 Decay and space are beginning to reveal the venue of this recording...NY RCMH (Radio City). Cool.

 I have the flu bug pretty bad right now but I'm not going to let that stop me (slow me a down a little maybe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) 

 More to follow tonight ...quite an improvement from yesterday though.

 Peete.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the right gear in front of these they are capable of excellent "realistic" reproduction. Pretty much says it all about any system really.......synergy is absolutely critical.

 Peete._

 

Exactly what I said XD "With the right gear", without the right gear then the "veil". So my question...again...is the Compass the "right gear", is it capable of removing the oft spoken veil which can be present if not the right gear?

 XD I know we will get this eventually.


----------



## idunno

Drosera, thanks for such a quick turn around! I just thought that maybe you'd get around to it eventually... In my pre-coffee state yesterday, I wasn't thinking too clearly; I should have been more specific about the tracks I test with, and why. The following are some responses to your comments:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Afro Celt Sound System-Saor, Free & News from Nowhere*
 Good separation, everything in the spectrum is well presented. The wind instruments can be a bit abrasive though. Still, despite that (almost) no sibilance, which is quite a feat. Although there are few 'clicks and pops' going on that are actually part of the music but might not be meant to be prominent. Good weight to it though. Realistic timbres too. (Not something I was used to with my DT880 in combination with the Corda Opera.) Some headbobbing even, pleasantly slow-moving PRaT (if that makes any sense)._

 

I'm surprised that you speak well of this recording... Their entire first album sounds flat to me, no depth to the soundstage, completely unexciting with headphones (unless I _really_ crank the volume); this is speaker music, imho. The acss tracks I test with are North and North 2, from volume 3; these have a much more enveloping sound, and are far more electronic than their earlier work; in fact, they are my designated electronic test tracks. At any rate, the fact that you speak well of this recording is intriguing to me, gives me something to look forward to.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Cat Power-You are free*
 Ok, fingerslides as musical content, it's novel. Still, they are probably not meant to be this prominent. God, soundstage the depth of a fingernail, that's not really a challenge for an Amp/DAC. Still everything is there, well separated, pleasant drive to it. Hefty guitar sound with perhaps more detail than is comfortable. Beefy sound._

 

Yeah, her music is not for everyone... she's on my test list solely as a quick and dirty test for detail.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Modest Mouse - 3rd Planet*
 (Being a classical music guy, I really do wonder. Do things really have to be recorded this unatmospherically? Oh well.) Again, same as above, but almost every guitar chord and every cymbal crash is way overprominent. Not the fault of the Compass, I'm afraid it's those Beyer highs. Cymbals are not separated, but how could they be, the recording is incredibly compressed. Still, the Compass will let you hear everything that is there in the recording._

 

Ugh! I agree, this is a crappy recording. I'd never heard this one, had to go find it in order to understand. The track of theirs that I test with is Bukowski, which may not be the best song or recording either, but is (for me) a good quick and dirty test for depth of soundstage.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Snow Patrol-If there's a rocket, tie me to it*
 Aaaaah, relief. Much better production. Pleasant drive again. The Beyers will let you hear if the singer has something stuck in his teeth, and you can tell what it is too. Things are far smoother here (productionwise it might even be somewhat smoothed over, everything but the vocals. And the Compass really lets you hear how all the instruments have been squeezed through way too much electronic postproduction. Wouldn't really want to listen for much more than 10 minutes because of this, it really is exhausting._

 

This is in the category that I call “fun” music, and yes it's clearly been retouched more than a pinup. That is in fact why their music has a place in my test list; need to test how well that polishing shows through.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, concluding, if you're going to combine the DT880 with the Compass, be prepared for some brutal honesty. Earth is more confronting, the Moon plays nicer, but you will trade in a little of the excitement the Earth will give you. Frankly, the conclusion I take away from it is that, with this combination, modern rock recordings will be quite hard to listen to. At least, if your used to hearing more atmosphere/soundstage and know how good things can sound in theory. The Afro Celt Sound System track is the clear exception and is frankly IMO also the best production of this list. But I also think that if you would go back to the AD900 things would get a lot better. My impressions are as much a comment on the unpleasant highs and ruthless resolution of the DT880 and as they are on the honesty of the Compass. ..._

 

I absolutely agree about the highs of the DT-880, they're my biggest complaint. I completely disagree about the “ruthless resolution” of the DT-880, or rather, I disagree that it's a weakness... I want to hear absolutely _everything_, good or bad; which is why I'd like to try the K701 someday. I do switch back to the AD900 from time to time (there is a reason why I haven't sold them yet) but find myself reaching for the DT-880 far more often; I like their resolution, and find their sound more intimate than the AD900, which imho can sound thin/distant at times.

 Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to suffer through this. It sounds like the Compass may in fact be a good match with the DT-880 for me; it's all a matter of personal preference.


----------



## Currawong

HD650s do not have a "veil". They are amp-sensitive IMO, which means that they will reflect what you connect them to at any scale, from cheap to thousands of dollars. Compared to the HD600s, they don't have as much treble, which is why people call them "dark". Some people like this, some people hate it. I prefer the HD600s. 

 I'm quite happy with the way the HD600s I have perform with the Compass. So far, with the Compass the sound is a bit more closed in than with my C2C. This is more noticeable if you have the Moon or Earth in the DAC and less so with the Sun.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly what I said XD "With the right gear", without the right gear then the "veil". So my question...again...is the Compass the "right gear", is it capable of removing the oft spoken veil which can be present if not the right gear?

 XD I know we will get this eventually._

 

Try it out and see for yourself.....

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm just SO impatient- I couldn't wait any longer...so I placed my Compass order with Kingwa. Of course, now I must wait until after the Chinese new year for the unit to ship.

 In the meantime, I was contemplating what kind of interconnect to use on this thing (connecting to a Marantz CD5001)- you guys have anything in mind that won't break the bank? Thx_

 

Aren't you going to use the DAC of the Compass ? If so you only need a digital cable (depends on the CD5001 output...,most likely COAX SPDIF). It's nice to have some good quality IC's but do you need them ?

 Peete.


----------



## thelsuman

Hi Peete

 Yeah, I do plan to use the DAC on the Compass. I should have been clearer in my question: I need to find a cable for the digital signal only (either coax or optical- the CD5001 can use either). Thx


----------



## ccschua

Try coaxial rather than optical. If u want to use optical, try blue jeans optical.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I do plan to use the DAC on the Compass. I should have been clearer in my question: I need to find a cable for the digital signal only (either coax or optical- the CD5001 can use either). Thx_

 

Unless there's a boatload of RFI/EMI, I think in most situations Coax would sound better. But Kingwa sells those too. At a discount if you buy it together with the Compass. For just 14$ you'll get a digital interconnect cable consisting of Canare RCA plugs and Canare 702 cable. I haven't compared it yet to anything else, but the buildquality is confidence inspiring.


----------



## Currawong

Quick update: 

 I was talking to Pricklely Peete about the HDAMs, and he was saying that around the number of hours that mine have done, the treble drops out. I was telling him how now my Sun sounds great, really mellow, which prompted his comment. Well, I thought, time to do some more rotating and listening etc. and both my Earth and Moon have lost their treble! He assures me that they return ...in a couple of days!

 I also switched out the Audio-gd power cables for my home-made 14 AWG ones (standard power cable + hospital grade plugs) in my Northstar and C2C, listened to some Sara K. then switched to the Audio-gd ones, which have been in use for the same amount of time as the Compass (about 250 hours). With my home-made cables, things are rather dull, with the Audio-gd ones it was if a veil had lifted. It wasn't a huge difference, but significant, about the same difference as the changes that occur in the HDAMs, or the changes you get when you switch a HDAM in after listening with opamps. I guess this makes me a power cable believer. 

 I want to put another 100 hours on my Compass + HDAMs before I write more, as they will have settled down by then.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Drosera, thanks for such a quick turn around! I just thought that maybe you'd get around to it eventually... In my pre-coffee state yesterday, I wasn't thinking too clearly; I should have been more specific about the tracks I test with, and why. The following are some responses to your comments:_

 

Phew, I'm actually relieved you seem to agree with most of my assessments. Well, it was a fun thing to do (while I should I have been doing other things of course, work for instance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) Although the results were really quite unnerving to me.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Afro Celt Sound System-Saor, Free & News from Nowhere*
 I'm surprised that you speak well of this recording... Their entire first album sounds flat to me, no depth to the soundstage, completely unexciting with headphones (unless I really crank the volume); this is speaker music, imho. The acss tracks I test with are North and North 2, from volume 3; these have a much more enveloping sound, and are far more electronic than their earlier work; in fact, they are my designated electronic test tracks. At any rate, the fact that you speak well of this recording is intriguing to me, gives me something to look forward to._

 

I would agree with you that it is flat, maybe I spoke well of it partly only in comparison with the other recordings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But the lack of depth doesn't annoy me here, there's still enough atmosphere not to make it a claustrophobic experience at all. And the instruments are well defined and have some lovely detail.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Cat Power-You are free*
 Yeah, her music is not for everyone... she's on my test list solely as a quick and dirty test for detail._

 

Well, there's certainly plenty of that. You can probably hear what brand of strings are on the guitar.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Modest Mouse - 3rd Planet*
 Ugh! I agree, this is a crappy recording. I'd never heard this one, had to go find it in order to understand. The track of theirs that I test with is Bukowski, which may not be the best song or recording either, but is (for me) a good quick and dirty test for depth of soundstage._

 

In my choice of tracks, I've basically let allmusic.com be my guide and used mainly the tracks that they specifically recommended. If I should test some more with other tracks, just let me know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Perhaps better for PM though.)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Snow Patrol-If there's a rocket, tie me to it*
 This is in the category that I call “fun” music, and yes it's clearly been retouched more than a pinup. That is in fact why their music has a place in my test list; need to test how well that polishing shows through._

 

It really, really does show. If you listen the same way I do, you'll just be frustrated by how little you can hear of the instruments. (While being aware of the actual capabilities of your equipment.) It actually reminded me of a particular Indonesian band I like to listen to (fun bunch of Radiohead-wannabe's), although even their recordings are not _that_ processed. Previously, I always thought of them as a sort of prime example of studio-abuse, it was interesting to learn things could get even worse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I absolutely agree about the highs of the DT-880, they're my biggest complaint. I completely disagree about the “ruthless resolution” of the DT-880, or rather, I disagree that it's a weakness... I want to hear absolutely everything, good or bad; which is why I'd like to try the K701 someday. I do switch back to the AD900 from time to time (there is a reason why I haven't sold them yet) but find myself reaching for the DT-880 far more often; I like their resolution, and find their sound more intimate than the AD900, which imho can sound thin/distant at times._

 

I know, one person's 'unbearable highs' are another's 'incredible detail'. And if you like the DT880s there's a very good chance you'll like the K701s too. (Less bass, better and more prominent midrange. The Beyers have a bit of a hole in the middle.) The point is that I can't help feeling that they pushed the highs in order to make them come across as more detailed. They did this well, the highs are of high quality, but the end result sounds quite unnatural too me. (Apparently, Vintage AKG and Sennheiser is my kind of sound signature.) I must actually emphasise that I like the Beyers a lot more through my Compass than I did using them with my Corda Opera. With the Opera they were infinitely 'friendlier', but in the end that made them boring.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to suffer through this. It sounds like the Compass may in fact be a good match with the DT-880 for me; it's all a matter of personal preference. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No problem, it was certainly educational. Have fun looking for that perfect recording where this combination won't let you hear even a single production mistake.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also switched out the Audio-gd power cables for my home-made 14 AWG ones (standard power cable + hospital grade plugs) in my Northstar and C2C, listened to some Sara K. then switched to the Audio-gd ones, which have been in use for the same amount of time as the Compass (about 250 hours). With my home-made cables, things are rather dull, with the Audio-gd ones it was if a veil had lifted. It wasn't a huge difference, but significant, about the same difference as the changes that occur in the HDAMs, or the changes you get when you switch a HDAM in after listening with opamps. I guess this makes me a power cable believer. _

 

Thats exactly what I experienced with Kingwa's power cables, things became more clear - like you say the veil was removed and in effect a better sound stage, I also tried my Supra Lo-rads - it had the same results but no so pronounced as the Audio GD cables.. I have always been a believer that good quality power cords give you cleaner sound and at the discounted price I find it one should give it a try.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats exactly what I experienced with Kingwa's power cables, things became more clear - like you say the veil was removed and in effect a better sound stage, I also tried my Supra Lo-rads - it had the same results but no so pronounced as the Audio GD cables.. I have always been a believer that good quality power cords give you cleaner sound and at the discounted price I find it one should give it a try._

 

Now, if only someone could come up with the explanation _why_ these improved power cords have an effect. (Better conductance? Maybe, but to any significant degree? This should be measurable at least. Better shielding? I wonder, do you really have to shield a 110V/220V current from low-level interference?)
 I mean this without any cynicism whatsoever. No intention either of stirring up a lot of pointless discussion on the subject again. But if we just knew what made them sound better we would be able to make even better custom power cords.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now, if only someone could come up with the explanation why these improved power cords have an effect. (Better conductance? Maybe, but to any significant degree? This should be measurable at least. Better shielding? I wonder, do you really have to shield a 110V/220V current from low-level interference?)
 I mean this without any cynicism whatsoever. No intention either of stirring up a lot of pointless discussion on the subject again. But if we just knew what made them sound better we would be able to make even better custom power cords._

 

My guess would be skin depth effect differences. The better material would have lesser resistivity. Im actually looking to play with this effect in my senior project this semester...if I can find the fabrication capability at the budget we are limited to =X Thats just a shot in the dark though, there are other electromagnetic factors that could play a roll. It gives me another something to think about buying when he is ready to start the next batch.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My guess would be skin depth effect differences. The better material would have lesser resistivity. Im actually looking to play with this effect in my senior project this semester...if I can find the fabrication capability at the budget we are limited to =X Thats just a shot in the dark though, there are other electromagnetic factors that could play a roll. It gives me another something to think about buying when he is ready to start the next batch._

 

Hm, interesting. But yes, budgetary constraints might be a problem. It's possible you would need a really hefty amount of OFC to test the relationship of skin effect and cable diameter.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm, interesting. But yes, budgetary constraints might be a problem. It's possible you would need a really hefty amount of OFC to test the relationship of skin effect and cable diameter._

 

Nah, my project isnt so much on skin effect of AC power cables. Its something else though Im reluctant to say since I havent found any patents for it =X Figure, Id let the college do the legwork on that for me.

 Cable testing itself shouldnt be too tough. The biggest problem would be isolating the factors because the differences would presumably be small they could come from skin effect or a few oxygen bubbles or something.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nah, my project isnt so much on skin effect of AC power cables. Its something else though Im reluctant to say since I havent found any patents for it =X Figure, Id let the college do the legwork on that for me._

 

Fair enough, I doubt there will be much commercial potential here anyways. Well, perhaps medical equipment...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cable testing itself shouldnt be too tough. The biggest problem would be isolating the factors because the differences would presumably be small they could come from skin effect or a few oxygen bubbles or something._

 

Hm, if it would be caused by such small factors, you would expect cables of the same type and the same manufacturer to behave differently when measured. That sounds like a feasible experiment. At least that would confirm that the causal factors are indeed in the details/microstructure.


----------



## sandchak

DBS and Dosera, please correct me if I am wrong, because I am a lay person without much electronic background.

 To me it feels it mainly because low resistance and low electromagnetic interference, a good quality copper (nothing esoteric - I don't believe that myself) and good shielding does help in the flow of electrons and keeping noise from being picked up, also wires are made in a particular direction and following the direction also helps in the flow. there are also factors like a badly made cables can have bubbles of oxygen that doesn't help the cause.

 all these are hard to prove, but one thing I cannot disapprove is what I hear and my ears, so I basically try to go by it..


----------



## mbd2884

The song that can sound just unbelievable or crud in my collection is:

 Muse - Map of the Problematique

 The recording on this sounds so basic, has a real garage sound to it, yet it is quite well done, just like all Muse songs. The drum beats, syncopation are almost on the same level of oddness as some of Vince Guaraldi's music. The guitars have a very raw sound to them, with a the piano in the background gives it another layer of sound for the amp/headphones a test.

 Overall, Compass failed the first time I ever heard them. With Moon the bass was definitely a bit too recessed with the treble, the highs of the piano rolled off. Now that Earth has burned in some more, its became a lot more tame. The AD900s and Compass are definitely fast enough to keep up with the syncopation of the drums and bass though. Sounding better each day.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The song that can sound just unbelievable or crud in my collection is:

 Muse - Map of the Problematique

 The recording on this sounds so basic, has a real garage sound to it, yet it is quite well done, just like all Muse songs. The drum beats, syncopation are almost on the same level of oddness as some of Vince Guaraldi's music. The guitars have a very raw sound to them, with a the piano in the background gives it another layer of sound for the amp/headphones a test.

 Overall, Compass failed the first time I ever heard them. With Moon the bass was definitely a bit too recessed with the treble, the highs of the piano rolled off. Now that Earth has burned in some more, its became a lot more tame. The AD900s and Compass are definitely fast enough to keep up with the syncopation of the drums and bass though. Sounding better each day._

 

Muse is my favourite band - I own all 4 CDs, but honestly I really think the recording is craptacular, except for the very first album - Showbiz (which was okay). I completely understand what you mean by it being sounding crud - I find the Black Holes and Revelations album very muffled sounding, but I can alter the sound by changing headphones. A nice track to try is Assassin, my KSC 75's and Elecom's sound a bit thin with the relentless electric guitar but with my M1000's its a lot fuller (doesn't mean it sounds great either though)


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_all these are hard to prove, but one thing I cannot disapprove is what I hear and my ears, so I basically try to go by it.._

 

I fear that that is what I will have to go by as well. Try them out and hear if I can also notice the difference. That is what matters of course, even if it's a placebo. (I have a very pragmatic approach to placebo's: If it works for you, go for it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## mbd2884

Hehe, Assassin is also the black sheep of their songs though. Quite different from the rest of the album and well any of their songs. Much faster, heavier, and well rock. I think the other songs are half industrial half prog rock, while Assassin is just all out rock. But yes it sounds great right now, listening it to now, at volumes above safe levels 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Muse is my favourite band - I own all 4 CDs, but honestly I really think the recording is craptacular, except for the very first album - Showbiz (which was okay). I completely understand what you mean by it being sounding crud - I find the Black Holes and Revelations album very muffled sounding, but I can alter the sound by changing headphones. A nice track to try is Assassin, my KSC 75's and Elecom's sound a bit thin with the relentless electric guitar but with my M1000's its a lot fuller (doesn't mean it sounds great either though)_


----------



## sandchak

To Drosera:
 Thats a good approach as long as you keep the your quest and focus to enjoying listening to music and not your audio equipments, actually theres a very thin line which separates both, once you cross that line.. God help you !!..

 This video might help you understand what I am trying to say..

YouTube - Greek Audiophile


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehe, Assassin is also the black sheep of their songs though. Quite different from the rest of the album and well any of their songs. Much faster, heavier, and well rock. I think the other songs are half industrial half prog rock, while Assassin is just all out rock. But yes it sounds great right now, listening it to now, at volumes above safe levels 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm not sure about that they certainly have a weird mix of various styles which magically sounds awesome. Ballads too like Falling Away with You, and on that album I'd say Invincible sounds the most different 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Map of the Problematique is fairly heavy as is Hysteria. If the Compass sounds good with Muse then that's probably sealed the deal


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To Drosera:
 Thats a good approach as long as you keep the your quest and focus to enjoying listening to music and not your audio equipments, actually theres a very thin line which separates both, once you cross that line.. God help you !!..

 This video might help you understand what I am trying to say..

YouTube - Greek Audiophile_

 

Thanks for the video, I had come across it before, but never got round to watching it.

 Actually, that kind of behaviour is not that exceptional in audiophile circles. And, given the choice between spending a 100,000$ on audio equipment and spending it on a car, I would definitely do the first. (Although I know that I will never in my life have that choice anyways. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) The strange thing is that people usually approve of you spending such amounts of cash on a car (they might even admire you for it), but will call you crazy if you invest it in music reproduction.

 Still, I will never let equipment get in the way of music. I still enjoy my simple portable Sony cd-player (almost) as much as my stuff at home. Indeed, this is also one of the reasons I'm rather sceptical of cable effects. I don't really like the diminishing returns. Why buy a 1000$ cable to make your 300$ cd-player sound slightly better, when you could have bought a 1000$ cd-player?

 It will also be a long long time before my investments in equipment will catch up with the amount of money I've spent on cd's through the years.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the video, I had come across it before, but never got round to watching it.

 Actually, that kind of behaviour is not that exceptional in audiophile circles. And, given the choice between spending a 100,000$ on audio equipment and spending it on a car, I would definitely do the first. (Although I know that I will never in my life have that choice anyways. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) The strange thing is that people usually approve of you spending such amounts of cash on a car (they might even admire you for it), but will call you crazy if you invest it in music reproduction.

 Still, I will never let equipment get in the way of music. I still enjoy my simple portable Sony cd-player (almost) as much as my stuff at home. Indeed, this is also one of the reasons I'm rather sceptical of cable effects. I don't really like the diminishing returns. Why buy a 1000$ cable to make your 300$ cd-player sound slightly better, when you could have bought a 1000$ cd-player?

 It will also be a long long time before my investments in equipment will catch up with the amount of money I've spent on cd's through the years. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I absolutely agree to what you say, that s why for a DAC worth 400 (eventually), if cables worth 60 or even less if you buy it bare to make one yourself, does make some difference to my ears, I feel for me its a worthwhile buy, but if it was the other way around.. I would have never felt the same!..No way !..


----------



## haloxt

It seems like I can't tell much of a difference between the custom power cable and normal (computer monitor) power cable without a power conditioner. I don't want people to accuse me of trying to get people to buy power conditioners, but I'd like to see if others feel or don't feel the same way about power conditioning bringing out the sound difference between power cables.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I absolutely agree to what you say, that s why for a DAC worth 400 (eventually), if cables worth 60 or even less if you buy it bare to make one yourself, does make some difference to my ears, I feel for me its a worthwhile buy, but if it was the other way around.. I would have never felt the same!..No way !.._

 

Sure, if it makes it 60$ better... Although, for a totally different philosophy, check out some of Patrick82's posts, if you hadn't come across him yet.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems like I can't tell much of a difference between the custom power cable and normal (computer monitor) power cable without a power conditioner. I don't want people to accuse me of trying to get people to buy power conditioners, but I'd like to see if others feel or don't feel the same way about power conditioning bringing out the sound difference between power cables._

 

It probably really depends on the quality of the power you have there. Whether you live in an appartment building or a separate house. Whether your power lines reach your house above ground and supported by wooden poles, or if they're brand new and underground. I'm fortunate enough to have really clean power here (as far as I can find, usually not a problem in this country anyways) and my house has been completely rewired just a few months ago.


----------



## sandchak

Btw, is this Peter82 the same Swedish guy I see here?? seems to have the same Genesis power cables: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk6R9...eature=related


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now how do i measure that??..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sit down while listening to your favourite music with the new cable in your system. Check how much your satisfaction has increased compared to before the new cable. Multiply the satisfaction by the projected lifetime of the cable. If the resulting figure exceeds 60$, it's worth it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: I thought it _was_ relevant.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, is this Peter82 the same Swedish guy I see here?? seems to have the same Genesis power cables: 

YouTube - Swedish Audiophile - Genesis_

 

I believe so. He has his own channel here: Patrick82

 Prepare to be disturbed a little though. Check out his dissection of the Nordost Valhalla.

 EDIT: _Then_ check the price of the Nordost Valhalla.


----------



## sandchak

absolutely crazy - he needs some help, but then I wonder no matter how crazy one can be, you cant rip apart such a costly piece of cable (even if its worth it or not).. I think its a scam !


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_absolutely crazy - he needs some help, but then I wonder no matter how crazy one can be, you cant rip apart such a costly piece of cable (even if its worth it or not).. I think its a scam !_

 

I don't know, everything I've seen up till now suggests that he is completely honest and sincere. I think he's selling similar cables on the Gear for Sale forums right now. I wouldn't call him crazy either (well, not _absolutely crazy_ at any rate), just interestingly different. It's fascinating.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure about that they certainly have a weird mix of various styles which magically sounds awesome. Ballads too like Falling Away with You, and on that album I'd say Invincible sounds the most different 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Map of the Problematique is fairly heavy as is Hysteria. If the Compass sounds good with Muse then that's probably sealed the deal_

 

truth is muse is one of the worst victims of the loudness wars, 
 (look at the list here:
Silk: CuteStudio Ltd. Audio, electronics, graphics and embedded software - products/audio/CD clipping/shame ) 

 so I guessing if you system is too transparent you're just going to get a lot of nonsense coming out.

 It's sad, really, cos I love their music to bits. Personally I use hysteria, the first kick drum as the song starts pretty much tells me if I'm going to enjoy the setup or not.


----------



## csroc

I agree about Muse. I actually listen to it less than I'd like simply because of the poor quality of the recordings. My car makes them more tolerable (decent sounding but not super high fidelity so it's forgiving) but my headphones and my home speakers make it far less listenable.


----------



## Olev

That's why I've seen them live 4 times - their studio quality is so poor that the only way to listen to them is live. Sad, really sad. Their first 3 albums did come out on vinyl, has anyone given them a listen?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree about Muse. I actually listen to it less than I'd like simply because of the poor quality of the recordings. My car makes them more tolerable (decent sounding but not super high fidelity so it's forgiving) but my headphones and my home speakers make it far less listenable._


----------



## mbd2884

I saw them in Montreal back in 2004


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's why I've seen them live 4 times - their studio quality is so poor that the only way to listen to them is live. Sad, really sad. Their first 3 albums did come out on vinyl, has anyone given them a listen?_

 

It does appear that Black Holes and Revelations was also released on vinyl but its currently unavailable. The price of their vinyls seems pretty damned expensive though... 115 pounds new for the Absolution vinyl!


----------



## Currawong

I wasn't going to take an interest in power cables until a trusted friend of mine said that he'd even plugged them into TVs and was able to see a difference!

 I'll take the Audio-gd power cables around to my friend's place and try them when I do the Compass vs. Benchmark comparison.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It does appear that Black Holes and Revelations was also released on vinyl but its currently unavailable. The price of their vinyls seems pretty damned expensive though... 115 pounds new for the Absolution vinyl!_

 

Yikes, that's insane! Muse aint good enough to justify that


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wasn't going to take an interest in power cables until a trusted friend of mine said that he'd even plugged them into TVs and was able to see a difference!

 I'll take the Audio-gd power cables around to my friend's place and try them when I do the Compass vs. Benchmark comparison._

 

I have never tried different power cables with TV, but I can surely say my power conditioner does make a lot of difference.


----------



## lag0a

Does anyone know how much sound difference do cables compared to their connectors compared to what they're connected to compared to adapters make up the sound quality? Is there a list of what kind of metal is best used for all these different parts? For example, some people use gold rca connectors, silver/gold for wires in cables, silver covered rhodium for IEC socket. It seems like it can get real crazy if you nitpick on everything for sound quality. Would the gold rca connectors balance out the silver rca interconnects connected to them? It seems endless.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lag0a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know how much sound difference do cables compared to their connectors compared to what they're connected to compared to adapters make up the sound quality? Is there a list of what kind of metal is best used for all these different parts? For example, some people use gold rca connectors, silver/gold for wires in cables, silver covered rhodium for IEC socket. It seems like it can get real crazy if you nitpick on everything for sound quality. Would the gold rca connectors balance out the silver rca interconnects connected to them? It seems endless._

 

I wouldn't worry about it until you have a system worth as much as a high-end computer or a cheap car. There isn't a simple answer to that question.


----------



## mbd2884

Audio Cable and wiring is all subjective, there is no definitive proof of any of this. So the only answer is, you have to try them yourself and see, but ensure in your testing to eliminate the placebo effect.

 For wiring like speakers and headphones there are only two things know that will make a difference. Shielding, that is important. The gauge of the wire, is also important. Whether its solid gauge or threaded like all high quality headphone cable is, no scientific proof.

 The thing when you see these 10K speaker wires and whatever is yes they have laboratory proof their wire and cables are better. But its also scientifically true that their measurements cannot be heard by the human ear, their proofs are well beyond the audio capabilities of your ears, which is pointless and dumb at that point.

 So yes, when it comes to wires and cables, just make sure its shielded and the correct gauge. Having it oxygen free won't make any difference, but the process of making wires oxygen free also eliminate all other contaminates in the wiring, so that is a plus.

 Other than that, its your ears. You just gotta test it for yourself since there is no scientific proof, its subjective. Some people it matters, some people it doesn't. So that's all there is to it, trust your own ears.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lag0a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know how much sound difference do cables compared to their connectors compared to what they're connected to compared to adapters make up the sound quality? Is there a list of what kind of metal is best used for all these different parts? For example, some people use gold rca connectors, silver/gold for wires in cables, silver covered rhodium for IEC socket. It seems like it can get real crazy if you nitpick on everything for sound quality. Would the gold rca connectors balance out the silver rca interconnects connected to them? It seems endless._


----------



## oqvist

One thing I am wonder about this... If I get some really nice gold plated sockets is it completely pointless if I run a stock power cable non gold or silver plated? Is there an all or nothing thing going on or would I still benefit from the gold plated sockets 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Power cables in general makes less difference then for example headphone cables or the transport cable to your DAC/AMP generally speaking in the majority of systems?

 power cables I would use would be as short as possible no more then a metre... I assume it´s the same as with cables the longer they are the more you benefit from high end cables.


----------



## haloxt

Are you sure humans can't hear the 10k speaker wires? Or you just mean human ears can't tell the difference between 5k speaker wires and 10k speaker wires? If you mean the former then I think wasting money isn't unique to defense contractors.

 oqvist,

 custom power cables differ from stock power cables in more than just sockets. In order from least to most important for sq, I think people feel it goes power cable>interconnects>dac/amp/headphone. So like Curra said, if you don't have equipment that is satisfactory for you, you should think about upgrading those first before getting cables.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One thing I am wonder about this... If I get some really nice gold plated sockets is it completely pointless if I run a stock power cable non gold or silver plated? Is there an all or nothing thing going on or would I still benefit from the gold plated sockets 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Power cables in general makes less difference then for example headphone cables or the transport cable to your DAC/AMP generally speaking in the majority of systems?

 power cables I would use would be as short as possible no more then a metre... I assume it´s the same as with cables the longer they are the more you benefit from high end cables._

 

It seems that cables have a stabilising (or de-stabilising) effect on the signal. AJ Van Den Hul says that a cable has to be of a minimum length to have a (good) effect on the signal, including power cords, so having very short, but high quality power cords would be useless, for example. Also, the difference between, say, 3 feet and 6 feet of any cable would be truly insignificant. That being said, I've seen some recommendations such that with power plugs, it's best if all the connectors on the plug and in the socket of the device are the same metal for best results.


----------



## mbd2884

Since we are continuing to being douchebags towards each other... Yes I meant you can't hear 10K speakers. Yep, that's EXACTLY what I meant.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you sure humans can't hear the 10k speaker wires? Or you just mean human ears can't tell the difference between 5k speaker wires and 10k speaker wires? If you mean the former then I think wasting money isn't unique to defense contractors.

 oqvist,

 custom power cables differ from stock power cables in more than just sockets. In order from least to most important for sq, I think people feel it goes power cable>interconnects>dac/amp/headphone. So like Curra said, if you don't have equipment that is satisfactory for you, you should think about upgrading those first before getting cables._


----------



## oqvist

I realize that I just meant I get these super clean signal from the cables and then I ruin it with the standard sockets... Or vice versa... 

 As for my setup it will be DACMAGIC (surprisingly I may be able to get one from my home town even) or Keces 131.1 or Compass. Solely looking for a DAC since I am happy with my Canamp. 

 I have a Heed Canamp and my headphones will be Ultrasone PRO 900 (which I will probably upgrade cable on) and markl modded D5000 which already have new jena copper cables. So yes I am soon up there in thew 2000$ new computer segment lol

 So I guess what´s left is if it´s worth it upgrading the power cables... One thing I wonder how much do the different standards effect this?. Here in Sweden we have the euro shuko two plug with no ground? 220V.

 I was hoping to be able to save some money on the power cable department but it´s just as important as for example headphone cables? Even when I ran cheaper equipment like DT 770 PRO I noticed a big difference between different RCA cables.

 But if the difference here is as big as with the interconnects I guess I will have to shell out some more


----------



## sandchak

Before going in for better power cables its essential to see the quality of power coming out of the sockets - in my case it was a shocker, couple of years ago I bought this old Russian house, everything looked fine till I started using my electronic stuffs like TV and audio gear.. it just wasn't the same the way it use to be.. checked up and found out that the entire wiring of the house was Aluminum!! changed everything to good copper, made sure the sockets used for TV and audio was coming straight and separate from the mains and were ground, made sure the lines used for audio and video were not crossing or sharing paths with lines using home appliance (specially mixers, geysers , washing machines and refrigerators..) these equipments do cause disturbance and noise on the lines..
 So in my experience, where I do believe power supply is the heart of any audio video gear, I had to get the basics right to hear any difference from power cables and stuffs like that..
 Just sharing MY experience- proves nothing at all.. just my experience..


----------



## mbd2884

To repeat what I said, when it comes to cables, as long as its the proper gauge and its shielded and with quality build. its subjective.

 Yes there are physical differences between thousand dollar cables and a random piece of copper wire, but there is no proof there are "audible" differences. Scientifically and anatomically your ears just aren't that good.

 So just try it, if you think it made a difference and you are happy with that choice then be happy. Buy your power cables, replace all the interconnects, its your money and its your hobby. Trust your own ears and your own head, not this forum or anyone else's when it comes to this subject, my honest opinion.

 Do I plan on getting an aftermarket power cable and usb cable? Yep, but not right now. Why? Will make me feel better, happy knowing that I get the best reasonable cost cables and interconnects for my Compass and Headphone.


----------



## mbd2884

Can't wait for the end of this week.

 Then we can get some impressions of the Compass and the HD600 and HD650.

 Cause I'm thinking I will make the AD900 my office headphones and just keep them there and make the HD650 part of my home rig and just ditch the D2000 as I'm not that thrilled by it.


----------



## csroc

I've been using my Compass with the HD650s and the AD900s.

 Anyway, on cables. I agree the last thing you should be thinking about upgrading is cables because as mentioned there's basically no objective proof that any proper/decent cables really make a difference you can actually hear.

 You'll have to judge for yourself whether or not you think cables matter and whether or not one sounds better than another because others experience probably means nothing for you and yours won't really necessarily mean anything to them.


----------



## Currawong

As far as I'm concerned, I can hear a clear difference between cables, at least where there is a significant price difference or material difference, and now that includes power cords. It does sometimes require, for example, picking music with very subtle details and listening carefully to whether those details are present as clearly or not. 

 The Compass is of sufficient quality that I can hear those differences with it.


----------



## slim.a

On the subject of cables, has anyone tried different USB cables with the Compass ? 
 If you feel that they change the sound which one do you prefere ?
 In my experience I have found one bad sounding USB cables (generic cable with ferrites) and the other USB cables I tried (Belkin Gold and Real Cable USB) sound (almost) the same to me.


----------



## mbd2884

I don't think I will hear significant difference in USB cables. I just feel with the workmanship and quality of the Compass, it deserves to have a quality cable feeding into it.


----------



## senn_liu

i hope the question i'm about to ask won't be incredibly dumb. here goes:

 if the earth hdam is generally neutral and the moon is generally "soft", then wouldn't earth hdam and "soft 1" or "soft 2" setting be similar to using a moon hdam?

 in other words, wouldn't it be wiser to get the earth hdam as the stock one, and just use the soft settings, rather than get the moon?


----------



## haloxt

I found this regarding usb cables, and it relates to the pcm2707 in the compass.

Best USB cable to use between computer and dac? | Computer Audiophile


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i hope the question i'm about to ask won't be incredibly dumb. here goes:

 if the earth hdam is generally neutral and the moon is generally "soft", then wouldn't earth hdam and "soft 1" or "soft 2" setting be similar to using a moon hdam?

 in other words, wouldn't it be wiser to get the earth hdam as the stock one, and just use the soft settings, rather than get the moon?_

 

Its up to you how you want to do it. I have Compass set on neutral and I use Earth OpAmp. It suits my listening preference.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found this regarding usb cables, and it relates to the pcm2707 in the compass.

Best USB cable to use between computer and dac? | Computer Audiophile_

 

Informative read


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found this regarding usb cables, and it relates to the pcm2707 in the compass.

Best USB cable to use between computer and dac? | Computer Audiophile_

 

Very interesting Link, Thanx!



 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i hope the question i'm about to ask won't be incredibly dumb. here goes:

 if the earth hdam is generally neutral and the moon is generally "soft", then wouldn't earth hdam and "soft 1" or "soft 2" setting be similar to using a moon hdam?

 in other words, wouldn't it be wiser to get the earth hdam as the stock one, and just use the soft settings, rather than get the moon?_

 

I don't know if the effect of playing with the different soft-settings will have a similar effect to switching Earth for Moon. I haven't found the time to try out these things yet.

 But I think the main reason why Kingwa chose the Moon as the default opamp is that he thought many people might otherwise have a problem with the neutrality of the Compass. I think that when you order you can basically indicate which opamp you want included. (In the standard pricing the Earth is actually slightly cheaper than the Moon.) As it turns out, many of the Compass-testers seem to prefer the Earth to the Moon. So perhaps Kingwa will change his recommendation on that basis and recommend the Earth as the default opamp.


----------



## haloxt

Using Moon and I just set it to soft-3, sounds very good. I might try it out later with Sun and see if it gets a little less bright.

 edit: I'd like to mention that jumper 1 and 2 are paired right next to each other, it's printed on the circuit board fyi.


----------



## mbd2884

Err that doesn't make sense haloxt.

 Kingwa said specifically that the Sun is the brightest and most colored OpAmp. So not sure how using Sun will make it less bright.

 If it does, then you should contact Kingwa and let him know as the Sun design would not to his intentions then.

 What headphones are you using? Cause I got Compass on neutral with Earth and I'm using AD900 that definitely does mids/trebles the best, and its not bright at all.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Err that doesn't make sense haloxt.

 Kingwa said specifically that the Sun is the brightest and most colored OpAmp. So not sure how using Sun will make it less bright.

 If it does, then you should contact Kingwa and let him know as the Sun design would not to his intentions then.

 What headphones are you using? Cause I got Compass on neutral with Earth and I'm using AD900 that definitely does mids/trebles the best, and its not bright at all._

 

He meant if putting the Sun in there while putting the jumpers in the softer settings will reduce the Suns brightness. He didnt mean that it would reduce the brightness of the Compass from its stock configuration.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He meant if putting the Sun in there while putting the jumpers in the softer settings will reduce the Suns brightness. He didnt mean that it would reduce the brightness of the Compass from its stock configuration._

 

Still, Moon and Soft-3, must be very relaxing listening.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i hope the question i'm about to ask won't be incredibly dumb. here goes:

 if the earth hdam is generally neutral and the moon is generally "soft", then wouldn't earth hdam and "soft 1" or "soft 2" setting be similar to using a moon hdam?

 in other words, wouldn't it be wiser to get the earth hdam as the stock one, and just use the soft settings, rather than get the moon?_

 

The "Soft" jumpers specifically attenuate the treble. This is different to the sound the Moon HDAM has. I think you're mixing up what is meant by "soft".


----------



## glitch39

the Moon HDAM is "soft" in the sense that it does not give a "in your face presentation", like the Sun does. 

 It has a more relaxed music delivery vs the Earth and Sun modules


----------



## mbd2884

Won't be long before those of you who are interested and decide to take a chance, you can hear all this for yourselves.

 Listened to some music just out of the laptop jack at work, now listening to Compass, the same songs, really does make a difference. 

 Great to see so many curious posters, I think you will all be pleased and not disappointed if you choose to do business with Kingwa and Audio-gd. Once you see the interior for yourself, you will be convince Kingwa is telling the truth about the experience of his workers.


----------



## jsedgwick

Could someone compare this and the KICAS Caliente? Specifically, would a Caliente plus a $100-200 standalone DAC beat this for the HD650s?


----------



## mbd2884

I find it amusing with so many requests for comparisons as if we have all these other amps to compare them to.

 Just like with anything else on this forum, just gotta read the reviews, and impressions and then like a big boy, have to decide whether to try them yourself or not. 

 Its a review/impression anyways, its your ears that matter, your ears are not ours or whoever may compare the Compass to the KICAS anyways.


----------



## jsedgwick

Dude, there's no need to be a dick about it. I'm not on an unlimited budget, I can't just try anything on the spur of the moment. I have been reading the reviews extensively, but I still wonder about the relative SQ of combined amp/dac versus separate. I wasn't assuming anyone would have both; I just think that someone more knowledgeable that myself might have an opinion.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jsedgwick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude, there's no need to be a dick about it. I'm not on an unlimited budget, I can't just try anything on the spur of the moment. I have been reading the reviews extensively, but I still wonder about the relative SQ of combined amp/dac versus separate. I wasn't assuming anyone would have both; I just think that someone more knowledgeable that myself might have an opinion._

 

Sigh. Yes, it would be nice if *mbd2884* would learn to express himself with a little more subtlety. Still, he does have a fair point. Certainly if you're not even expecting anyone to have the opportunity to compare the two side by side, how will we ever be able to say how the two compare? Sure, you can speculate based on the components and the way it was designed, but that will never really give you an idea of how something will sound. Audio is odd that way, simple cheap designs can often outperform really intricate expensive stuff.
 So, in the end, if there's no head-to-head comparison in the future, it's best to go by the different impressions and take the gamble.


----------



## sandchak

I second what Drosera says, because the entire thing is about personal tastes and preference, what someone would find as bright, may be very much to my liking.. I think the best judge would be yourself if you have the opportunity to do a side by side test, and in any case, I think Compass needs a little more time to show its true color.


----------



## csroc

I agree with Drosera as well. Mbd has a point most of the time, he just needs to learn some tact.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jsedgwick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude, there's no need to be a dick about it. I'm not on an unlimited budget, I can't just try anything on the spur of the moment. I have been reading the reviews extensively, but I still wonder about the relative SQ of combined amp/dac versus separate. I wasn't assuming anyone would have both; I just think that someone more knowledgeable that myself might have an opinion._

 


 Doesn't hurt to ask? Who knows, someone may have one(Caliente)? I think the Caliente is fairly new isn't it? Someone with a shiny new Compass in the first group or the next group may have one, or take his Compass over to a buddies house to put them up head to head. 

 One thing is for sure, there's nothing wrong with asking the question.

 Rude, for Rudeness sake? Doesn't make sense, very unbecoming...



 .


----------



## mbd2884

Wasn't completely directed at you. If you go through this thread, others besides yourself, instead of reading one of the 18's impressions and just taking them as they are, impressions, they reply with posts, compare them to this amp, this DAC, this headphone.

 Although I don't think my response on this issue was very rude. Personally thought writing "I find it amusing..." would have given it away that I wasn't yelling or upset over this. Like others noted, I am not one to skirt around an issue and just write plainly to the point, hopefully that also note that I often in fact try to be helpful. In this thread, others, about mid-fi dac/amps and headphones. If some unable to see the advice or the point I was making, well I won't apologize for it, as I am not sorry. 

 And just as Les_garten said it doesn't hurt to ask, I don't think it hurts to point out you do at some point have to make the decision to try it yourself unless you live close to one of the testers. No matter how many comparisons you read doesn't matter since the 18 who did purchase based on Audio-gd's reputation, their ears and preferences are not yours. Luckily for you, I think some of the 18 who did so have a lot of experience with amps and headphones, csroc and Peete in particular.

 And also why do you think I bought the Compass? I also had to set a budget for myself, but took the chance with Compass without any reviews at all on it, and very happy I did so. No regrets.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jsedgwick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude, there's no need to be a dick about it. I'm not on an unlimited budget, I can't just try anything on the spur of the moment. I have been reading the reviews extensively, but I still wonder about the relative SQ of combined amp/dac versus separate. I wasn't assuming anyone would have both; I just think that someone more knowledgeable that myself might have an opinion._


----------



## Currawong

Unless one passes through the hands of a Head-fi'er who's tried a lot of gear, such as Skylab, comparisons wont be readily forthcoming.

 Listening update: The headamp seems to have settled, and with both the Compass and my Northstar using the Audio-gd power cables, the result is very nice with my HD-600s.


----------



## ccschua

Here is my DAC 100 photo.












 My unit has settled as well. Now running on OPA Earth.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is my DAC 100 photo. My unit has settled as well. Now running on OPA Earth._

 

Pretty! Although it apparently was not designed with such a big opamp in mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How long did it have to burn in before it settled?


----------



## sandchak

a little innovation.. maybe..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_a little innovation.. maybe.._

 

LOL, yeah, that would do it. Although I doubt Kingwa would approve of such a solution, he seems to like his equipment closed. (Even though that picture is apparently from somewhere around the Audio-gd forum.)


----------



## sandchak

actually its quite a moded DAC100, it has 2 Coax instead of optical, using Kingwas coax out upgrade board and sounds great too, in fact I had eyes set on this before I decided Compass would be more useful..
 Dont know about Kingwa, but I surely know you wouldnt recommend after your experiance with opamps..


----------



## haloxt

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but I just found out audio-gd has a upgraded version of the C-2C headphone amplifier for sale at a promotional price of $335 USD. Might be a good option for people who already have a good DAC and was considering the compass just for the headphone amplifier section.

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## scootermafia

Yeah, MBD does have a point though that words can only count for so much; at a certain point you have to trust a weight of reviews in making your decision and take a risk that you might not like it, or that another setup might have been better. Ebay and the sale forum await if you don't like it so it's not really a risk at all. 

 I guess someone should mail their compass to Skylab.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_actually its quite a moded DAC100, it has 2 Coax instead of optical, using Kingwas coax out upgrade board and sounds great too, in fact I had eyes set on this before I decided Compass would be more useful..
 Dont know about Kingwa, but I surely know you wouldnt recommend after your experiance with opamps..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't know what you're talking about. Really, not a clue...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but I just found out audio-gd has a upgraded version of the C-2C headphone amplifier for sale at a promotional price of $335 USD. Might be a good option for people who already have a good DAC and was considering the compass just for the headphone amplifier section.

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1_

 

Yeah, it seems to be a really good option for that. Currawong tested it as better than the amp in the Compass. It also looks a whole lot better now in its new guise, a lot better than the unit Curra reviewed.


----------



## mbd2884

Since I much prefer my AD900s over the D2000, decided to make the AD900 and Compass my permanent home setup.

 The D2000 will stay at the office running out of the laptop.

 Since the AD900 is terminated with a 3.5mm plug, decided to order a Furutech FP-704(G) 1/4" plug from Whiplash audio and ordered a Neutric 3.5mm plug for the D2000. Will be doing some soldering this weekend!

 Also decided to get the Power Cable for Audio-gd and will upgrade the USB cable. Now I'm done!

 The cable in the AD900 seem fine and at this point in my audio journey, a recable job for any of my headphones in not in the plans. Will upgrade the AD2000 before I ever think about doing that. Was considering the HD650, but I don't like that they use aluminum coil, and I trust Audio Technica's build quality and their copper coil instead. Hehe, oh well. 

 If Obama's economic plan goes through, I may get the AD2000, haha! 45 day return policy from Musician's Friend with free shipping on the return if I don't like it.
 - AD2000 price has sky rocketed in the last year. I remember when I bought my AD900s I bought it for 240$ USD with 2 day express shipping from Japan through Audiocubes, the 240 included the duty fee also. The AD2000 then was in the high 400, low 500. No its 699, it literally jumped 200 USD since I purchased the AD900s.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, MBD does have a point though that words can only count for so much; at a certain point you have to trust a weight of reviews in making your decision and take a risk that you might not like it, or that another setup might have been better. Ebay and the sale forum await if you don't like it so it's not really a risk at all. 

 I guess someone should mail their compass to Skylab._

 


 Hmmm,
 Good idea, there may be up to 18 of these that will return to the mothership. Why not take a detour. It only costs like $8 to USPS the gadget to Skylab.


----------



## mbd2884

I'll P.M Skylab and see if he is interested. I'll look at his profile of his headphone collection and amps.

 I may volunteer to do this, since my AD900s still sound great out of the laptop, whereas other of you are using harder to drive headphones. That and I have already given my impression of the Compass.

 I will also be getting the power cable from Audio-gd and a new USB cable.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DBS and Dosera, please correct me if I am wrong, because I am a lay person without much electronic background.

 To me it feels it mainly because low resistance and low electromagnetic interference, a good quality copper (nothing esoteric - I don't believe that myself) and good shielding does help in the flow of electrons and keeping noise from being picked up, also wires are made in a particular direction and following the direction also helps in the flow. there are also factors like a badly made cables can have bubbles of oxygen that doesn't help the cause.

 all these are hard to prove, but one thing I cannot disapprove is what I hear and my ears, so I basically try to go by it.._

 

Your sort of on the right track.....I'll help you guys along with some hints in the right direction.....look up inductance and capacitance WRT cable geometry and conductors used, how they are arranged, stranded vs solid core, copper and silver hybrid etc...not to mention noise rejection in the form of RFI/EMI ......another factor is plug blade contact pressure (metallurgy etc). A good example of one design taking one the factors to an extreme and getting poor results is the old Alpha Core speaker cables (one large flat solid chunk of copper that required Zoebel networks to mitigate the effects of going in one directions extreme, (capacitance/inductance).

 Cable design is a delicate balance of those 2. Decrease one and you increase the other. The wild card is noise rejection. Additional attention paid to this can take many forms (MIT, Synergistic Research, a number of others) have simple to wildly elaborate active systems....some work, some don't.

 Simply by twisting the 3 conductors over the length of the cable run rejects noise, reduces inductance but increases capacitance....you get the picture.

 There are many white papers online for looking through WRT to these basic principles. Have a look fellow members it's an interesting read.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i hope the question i'm about to ask won't be incredibly dumb. here goes:

 if the earth hdam is generally neutral and the moon is generally "soft", then wouldn't earth hdam and "soft 1" or "soft 2" setting be similar to using a moon hdam?

 in other words, wouldn't it be wiser to get the earth hdam as the stock one, and just use the soft settings, rather than get the moon?_

 

No. It's not as simple as that. The Moon topology is entirely different from the SUN or the Earth. The differences are more than just roll off of the highs. The Moon circuit is based on Single ended circuit (hence tube like quality) whereas the Earth is something else entirely.




 Can we keep the cable discussion to how it effects the Compass only please. General conversation and such of said contentious objects have their own forum. Try to remember that guys. The debates of the how or why can be taken up in the aforementioned separate forum.

 Peete.


----------



## moodyrn

Currawong does the performance of the Compass have anything to do with why you're selling your Northstar? If so, that really says a hell of a lot about the Compass and makes me even more excited about getting one.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Curra has his eye on the Ref 1.....only 2 months for mine to arrive now...better start rolling my pennies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Man I've spent the last 2 days trying to get over this flu bug...that explains the lack of updates from me for the last 48 hrs. I feel a lot better today and I did slip in a couple of hours listening to the Compass over the last 2 days.

 Here's the update from those 2 sessions,

 It continues to change and improve. It now has 215 hours on it with further changes of note compared to the last observations posted Friday (past). SS has widened and spread out, compression of dynamics is far less, treble is still rolled off (OPA and H/Amp sections right around that time where this happens during burn in...combine to make effect stronger but the last 100 hours or so should be a different story). Air and space around instruments has increased considerably from first listen. Bass has firmed up and become very quick, no overhang and no flub.....very good in fact. Timbre of bass is typical of Moon module...slightly thick in the mid bass region. Not annoyingly so though. Mids have lost all grain, placement of vocals and solo instruments solid. 3D imaging is still improving and is now approaching the level of the FrankenZERO's uncanny abilities in this respect. I expect the Compass to surpass Frank in all areas once completely burned in. Refinement has improved, no longer are the instruments struggling to be heard from a centralized mass. Delineation and edges of each instrument type coming into sharp focus. 

 The one thing that strikes me with this amp is the ability to be powerful, detailed,delicate, relaxed , musical at the same time. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised...that's the MO of the audio-gd HDAMs for the most part. The additional support of the well designed and well appointed power supplies should reinforce/enhance this sound sig further as burn in progresses. The term effortless is beginning to pop into my head on a regular basis......one thing is for sure this amp is enjoyable to say the least (as long as the recording is good, even bad recordings are listenable though).

 The switch to the CDM12 Pro transport takes the experience to a whole other level over all my other sources.....WOW is all I can say for now. 

 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

Peete do your headphones have 1/4" plugs or are you using an adapter?

 I'm currently using adapter and hoping when I put the Furutech on, it will make a difference, even if its very little.

 Also would it make a difference to upgrade the Neutrik 1/4" jack to the black version, gold plated? Sound wise, not worried about corrosion.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

1/4 inch . There would be no difference with the Neutrik jacks.......gold plated might look fancier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It continues to change and improve. It now has 215 hours on it with further changes of note compared to the last observations posted Friday (past)._

 

How have you got to 215 hours, Peete? It only showed up at yours 5 days ago!

 168 hours in a week, buddy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I received mine a few days before you, and am just over 200 hours...

 --Rich


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How have you got to 215 hours, Peete? It only showed up at yours 5 days ago!

 168 hours in a week, buddy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I received mine a few days before you, and am just over 200 hours...

 --Rich_

 

Might be relying on the statement they have 100 on them when they arrive. We know that that statement was never true with those Dog-goned Zero's



 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How have you got to 215 hours, Peete? It only showed up at yours 5 days ago!

 168 hours in a week, buddy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I received mine a few days before you, and am just over 200 hours...

 --Rich_

 

Your forgetting about the 100 Kingwa put on it. I asked him to make sure it had a 100 before shipping.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I see quite a bit more in the way of power supply build in the DAC100......dedicated to the DAC and not split to another component. 

 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

The DAC-100 I believe is priced competitively and fair in comparison to the other choices available. Only thing better I have read through this forum that may possibly be better for a mid-fi DacMagic which is also considerably more money. In fact I think you get more for that 245 dollars for the DAC-100 than you do from its competitors at the 250 USD mark.
 - Although I would be very curious what you expect from 245 Dollars syllabus. Audio gear from what I have seen is very expensive hobby, so 245 from what I've seen is pennies compared to what is available out there.

 While I trust Peete's observations, to me the power source in DAC-100 and Compass seem very similar. That and I trust Kingwa he provided a power source more than adequate for the Compass.

 But the price 258 is only promotional, I would recommend Kingwa to sell Compass at least for 450, if not more. The Amp doesn't seem to be the same as his C2C though, rather a different amp design made specifically for the Compass. Also just looking at the C2C and reading the few impressions of it, does seem to be a more substantial amp, by good margin.

 But for my AD900 and possibly future AD2000, the Compass is more than enough for a DAC/Amp for my needs.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

They are similar mbd.....the layout on the Compass may be a little better since the chassis is made to fit the Compass. The DAC100 is squeezed into the Lite AH DAC chassis as are the buffers....I'm not sure if it makes all that much difference overall but shorter signal paths are always preferred and layout can make or break a design.

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Might be relying on the statement they have 100 on them when they arrive. We know that that statement was never true with those Dog-goned Zero's
 ._

 

Very true. I had forgotten to include the hours added at the factory. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And yes, so far they seem to all be working 100%. The Zero has not had a success rate approaching that for a long time now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## mbd2884

Hehe, I hope to solder this weekend. And Kingwa is sending me one of his power cables! And will be looking into getting a different USB cable also, haven't decided which one to get.

 Also found a nice USB thread here which is great find. Says for streaming data as audio, the expensive Kimber Cable actually has a fundamental design flaw with their ferrite beads. Man glad I found out before spending the insane price to get one, as I was considering it. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/hi...sb-dac-353613/

 What the thread has taught me is that with USB cables, yes its digital signal, and yes the data transfers very quickly, but since its streaming audio, its the timing that is important. The ferrite beads won't impede with the speed or data, but will impede the timing. Ferrite beads are used by Kimber and others to pass emissions test and buff those numbers. For audio, we are more concerned with timing, and usb.org approved Newnex cables which are far cheaper are also a lot better for our DACs.

 Coolness, how often do you find cheaper being better?

 So I'll just run over to a store and buy myself USB that is properly shielded and without ferrite beads. Simple enough.


----------



## Currawong

Ok, 350+ hour impressions:

 I've kept the compass on 24/7, along with my Zero and unused HDAMs so I could reach the 350 hour mark as quickly as possible, which is when all the transistors and other components seem to settle into their best sound.

 I'm particularly enjoying the my HD-600s with the Compass, using the Northstar as the DAC, Van Den Hul The Orchid ICs (worth $100 more than the Compass!) and Audio-gd's power cables, the latter which seem to have fixed a treble dullness issue in the Northstar.

 The soundstage (headstage) in my C2C is still better, throwing quite a bit wider. Listening to Jeff Buckley Live at the Bataclan from the Grace EPs, with the C2C, it sounds as if I'm sitting in the middle of the audience, whereas with the Compass, I'm sitting at the back. The sound with the Compass is more squished together in front of me, whereas with the C2C, the different sounds are more separated from each other.

 However, this difference isn't altogether that critical. If I'd not done an A/B comparison and just been listening casually, I wouldn't have noticed it. I've been enjoying classical jazz very much with the Compass as just a headamp for the last couple of days.

 More to follow with my other headphones.


----------



## K3cT

Kindly requesting impressions from your modded D5000, Currawong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I recently markl modded my D2000 and I'm sure both will sound quite alike.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kindly requesting impressions from your modded D5000, Currawong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I recently markl modded my D2000 and I'm sure both will sound quite alike._

 

Hehe patience. Lucky for you Currawong has the modded D5000 for your D2000. Also lucky for you, Kingwa already knew a lot of us have Denon headphones and the D2000 I believe was among the test headphones he used to design the Compass. As suggested by Currawong also.

 I'm still burning mine in as I only switched over to the Earth OpAmp late last week. And will wait until I receive my new power cable next week and terminated the AD900s this weekend. From other postings, I understand the treble will settle more with the Earth at the 300 hour mark also, and well I think I may be around 50-70 hour mark with the Earth.

 But the Compass is a keeper for me, I am not tempted to look for an upgrade. Right now Compass is allowing me to enjoy Infected Mushroom as if listening to them for the first time again.

 Can say right now, Norah Jones and Diana Krall highs, treble sometime shrill, but then I am not impressed by their piano skills anyhow. But George Winston is sounding fantastic, but then that's probably because George Winston is five times the pianist of Norah and Diana combined. Winston never fails to please my listening pleasure seeking.

 Is it any wonder George Winston - December is the best selling solo piano album of this century? My father, my uncle and grandmother and myself all pianists, and we all agree, this is our favorite contemporary solo piano album and artist. Around Thanksgiving and Christmas time, that album is definitely my favorite, nothing else comes close for the winter holiday spirits for me.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your sort of on the right track.....I'll help you guys along with some hints in the right direction.....look up inductance and capacitance WRT cable geometry and conductors used, how they are arranged, stranded vs solid core, copper and silver hybrid etc...not to mention noise rejection in the form of RFI/EMI ......another factor is plug blade contact pressure (metallurgy etc). A good example of one design taking one the factors to an extreme and getting poor results is the old Alpha Core speaker cables (one large flat solid chunk of copper that required Zoebel networks to mitigate the effects of going in one directions extreme, (capacitance/inductance).

 Cable design is a delicate balance of those 2. Decrease one and you increase the other. The wild card is noise rejection. Additional attention paid to this can take many forms (MIT, Synergistic Research, a number of others) have simple to wildly elaborate active systems....some work, some don't.

 Simply by twisting the 3 conductors over the length of the cable run rejects noise, reduces inductance but increases capacitance....you get the picture.

 There are many white papers online for looking through WRT to these basic principles. Have a look fellow members it's an interesting read.

 Peete._

 

Hi Peete,

 thanks for the info on further improvements, I was lucky enough to oversee the home cabling recently, although I preferred the stranded cable over the solid core, I twisted the 3 cable in litz braid and taped it throughout with Teflon tape (only for the AV sockets) and noticed the improvements immediately - perceivable things like no lines on the TV screen with mixer on or the HPs and Speakers more silent with volume turned up..

 As for compass and moon, after 4 days of burn in, its kind of settled down nicely, mellow would be the word - easy listening for hours, although theres one thing I hope it improves and that is when it reaches the high point of the music, like when I listen to Bruce Katz Band, there is a point where I am actually waiting for when he crashes the cymbals - how do i explain, its like a crescendo but in this case a sudden intensity - and thats the point I feel a little let down. I do not know if it has to do with the Moon or the power transformer itself, because if I recollect, Kingwa said the DAC 100 has a slightly better PS than Compass, and all the more as Compass shares that with both the DAC and HP amp - its just a guess, but I am quite optimistic it should improve, the rest I find extremely good - as a package - fantastic.

 Btw, its seems its my turn to catch the flu bug since this morning, so with everything jammed and stuffy in my head (including ears), my impressions on Compass from here on, for at least 3-4 days will be as good as bad..


----------



## mbd2884

Switch to the Earth OpAmp and see if that crescendo changes. I had the same impression with Moon where at certain points of the songs I was anticipating excitement, and was letdown. Earth changed that for me, its at the sweet spot for me. Be interesting if you will have the same experience.


----------



## sandchak

Actually you might be right mbd, I should try Earth and see for a longer and more critical listen.. the thing is that I am not trying to shuffle too much with opamps and sticking to one, so that I can fully burn in one. In fact I did try both Earth and Sun just for a little while to check out and I could easily notice that SUN was really fast and had big bass, but it was kind of edgy on the highs, so I put my moon back in.. but you maybe right, it might be the Moon which is the culprit here.. although I also know by past experiences that a better power transformer also helps in maintaining the dynamics of music..


----------



## mbd2884

Hey to Currawong, Kingwa and Sandchak thanks for this wonderful project. And to the rest of the 16 and other contributors such as Les_garten, thanks for making this thread the most fun thread.

 What a great project the Compass was, a DAC/Amp created for Head-Fiers with Head-Fier contributions. Made to our specifications and suggestions with plenty of variables to suit the Compass to each users preference, low gain, high gain, Earth, Sun, Moon Opamps, Neutral or Soft Settings, plenty of inputs, bypass option to use just as Amp, Pre-Amp or just as a DAC.

 Just wanted to say after my power cable arrives, Furutech arrives and when I purchase a new USB cable, I'm done with Headphone upgrading for a long time. 

 Thanks to those who made this Compass project possible and solved my upgrade needs in one enjoyable experience. 

 Will remain Mid-Fi for a little while longer.


----------



## godluvsxs

For those who are interested in getting DAC only, stay tuned for DAC100 cos Kingwa mentioned there's going to be a casing upgrade for DAC100, from normal steel to aluminum casing like Compass, and most interesting is that Kingwa mentioned using Aluminium casing will make the sound quality better, scientifically why he didnt explain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe because of the better heat dissipation? better noise isolation? more rigid structure to reduce vibration? I dunno but there must be some truth since dealing with him for few times and he seems true to his words 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The current DAC100's DAC section basically better in power supply and power regulation but too bad comes in steel casing, and although DAC section of COMPASS inferior in these mentioned area but due to using Aluminum casing, so Kingwa could safely assume that their DAC performance are on par. 

 From his words, I also noticed that after this introductory period, the COMPASS's price will going to rise up to at least USD400, so guys better hurry up


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey to Currawong, Kingwa and Sandchak thanks for this wonderful project. And to the rest of the 16 and other contributors such as Les_garten, thanks for making this thread the most fun thread.

 What a great project the Compass was, a DAC/Amp created for Head-Fiers with Head-Fier contributions. Made to our specifications and suggestions with plenty of variables to suit the Compass to each users preference, low gain, high gain, Earth, Sun, Moon Opamps, Neutral or Soft Settings, plenty of inputs, bypass option to use just as Amp, Pre-Amp or just as a DAC.

 Just wanted to say after my power cable arrives, Furutech arrives and when I purchase a new USB cable, I'm done with Headphone upgrading for a long time. 

 Thanks to those who made this Compass project possible and solved my upgrade needs in one enjoyable experience. 

 Will remain Mid-Fi for a little while longer._

 

Hey mbd, thanks for your appreciation, although my contribution was only a little editing and maybe some addition of options to folks who specially find it a problem to ship back the test version compass to get the upgraded version when its up on sale.. of course thanks to me there was some drama on this thread..
 you are so correct, its wonderful to get together and develop a product..
 Btw, are you thinking of being away from the forum for a while??.. thats going to be bad, I am going to miss your straight and hard talking !!

 thanks


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *godluvsxs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who are interested in getting DAC only, stay tuned for DAC100 cos Kingwa mentioned there's going to be a casing upgrade for DAC100, from normal steel to aluminum casing like Compass, and most interesting is that Kingwa mentioned using Aluminium casing will make the sound quality better, scientifically why he didnt explain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe because of the better heat dissipation? better noise isolation? more rigid structure to reduce vibration? I dunno but there must be some truth since dealing with him for few times and he seems true to his words 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The current DAC100's DAC section basically better in power supply and power regulation but too bad comes in steel casing, and although DAC section of COMPASS inferior in these mentioned area but due to using Aluminum casing, so Kingwa could safely assume that their DAC performance are on par. 

 From his words, I also noticed that after this introductory period, the COMPASS's price will going to rise up to at least USD400, so guys better hurry up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nothing proven, but in theory effect of transformer (50-60hz) does not happen in aluminum chassis, while it does in iron chassis, so when it comes to audible difference, it might be possible that the same unit enclosed in Aluminum sounds clearer - but then this audible difference isn't proven.. which is why I think he believes that the DAC100 with a slightly better power supply is as good as Compass in Aluminum chassis.. well that might not be the story after what you say !


----------



## Currawong

He's probably received some feedback about the DAC100 and made some changes. I don't think it's the case specifically that would cause a sound change.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He's probably received some feedback about the DAC100 and made some changes. I don't think it's the case specifically that would cause a sound change._

 

Very possible, he is always tweaking his products to make it better on customer suggestions.. my conclusion was based on what godluvsxs said  Quote:


 For those who are interested in getting DAC only, stay tuned for DAC100 cos Kingwa mentioned there's going to be a casing upgrade for DAC100, from normal steel to aluminum casing like Compass 
 

Talking about Compass, theres seems to be the first pictured upgrade in form of custom ordered RCA sockets on his website - nice looking 24carats gold plated !!.. Reference Three DAC info out too.. this is audio nirvana..

 another edit: confirmed - its going to be only case upgrade to aluminum for DAC 100 (at least as of now..)


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reference Three DAC info out too.. this is audio nirvana.._

 

This is odd, it's mentioned on the English language version of the site, but not on the Chinese one. What does that mean, will this one not be sold to the Chinese first (as a sort of beta-testing)?

 Maybe it'll be the next head-fi test-trial.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is odd, it's mentioned on the English language version of the site, but not on the Chinese one. What does that mean, will this one not be sold to the Chinese first (as a sort of beta-testing)?

 Maybe it'll be the next head-fi test-trial. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

As far as my thinking goes, I do not think he feels he needs to do beta test of Reference Three, as its in line with both Reference One and Two, both released in Chinese market before going International..

 So I think I can confidently assure you it’s not going to be like Compass Test Version - head-fi test trial, Compass was something he really did for the first time (DAC HP amp Combo)..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as my thinking goes, I do not think he feels he needs to do beta test of Reference Three, as its in line with both Reference One and Two, both released in Chinese market before going International..

 So I think I can confidently assure you it’s not going to be like Compass Test Version - head-fi test trial, Compass was something he really did for the first time (DAC HP amp Combo).._

 

I know, I was just kidding about the test-trial.

 Funny, I would think that there would be less to test with the Reference One and Two, since they're both based on previous DACs (DAC-7 & DAC-8), whereas the Reference Three appears to be an all new design.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Is there going to be a DAC-only version of the Compass? Otherwise, would I be right to assume that the DAC100 bests the DAC in the Compass? Also, does the DAC100 offer optical input? I was looking at the Audio-gd site, and it only said USB and coax.....


----------



## godluvsxs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He's probably received some feedback about the DAC100 and made some changes. I don't think it's the case specifically that would cause a sound change._

 

Honestly I also skeptic about the sound improvement from steel casing to aluminum casing, but below were what Kingwa replied me in Chinese which I'm doubt he's in lack of words expressing himsef:

 "COMPASS的电源轻微比DAC100 差,但由于COMPASS使用全铝机箱,全铝机箱会比铁机箱在音质上有改善,因此声音品质会达到DAC10 0的水平"

 "COMPASS's power supply processing is slightly worse than DAC100, but due to COMPASS is using full aluminum casing, and aluminum casing does improves the sound quality better while switching from steel casing, so COMPASS's sound quality does reach the level of DAC100"

 Anyway, as Kingwa mentioned, COMPASS's DAC quality as good as DAC100 which selling for USD245 from audio-gd, basically those are getting COMPASS with USD258, you're paying price for a decent DAC and you are getting yourself a FREE decent headamp too, which is worth at least USD200


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there going to be a DAC-only version of the Compass? Otherwise, would I be right to assume that the DAC100 bests the DAC in the Compass? Also, does the DAC100 offer optical input? I was looking at the Audio-gd site, and it only said USB and coax....._

 

The DAC100 uses the same DA chip as the Compass. I gather the Compass' DAC design is based on that of the DAC100.

 The REF 3 looks very interesting, and would be interesting to compare to a Benchmark DAC1, Lavry or similar.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know, I was just kidding about the test-trial.

 Funny, I would think that there would be less to test with the Reference One and Two, since they're both based on previous DACs (DAC-7 & DAC-8), whereas the Reference Three appears to be an all new design._

 

I would think otherwise, to me Reference Three is more like a little sibling to Reference One and Two as they share the same processor DSP1.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would think otherwise, to me Reference Three is more like a little sibling to Reference One and Two as they share the same processor DSP1._

 

Well, Kingwa will certainly have the application of the DSP-1 down now, so he will be confident that that works. But as far as I can see, that only does the "pre-processing", doesn't it? The actual D->A is done elsewhere by the respective DA chips. Anyways, meaningless discussion, Kingwa probably knows best. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It would be very interesting to see the Reference Three go up against the mainstays by Benchmark and Lavry. It's very competitively priced for that too.

 Now, what I would actually like to see is a DAC-3SE with DSP-1 built in. Somehow, I really like the idea of those 4 PCM1704UK chips. I wonder if it would be possible to build something like that yourself?


----------



## ccschua

well for overseas customers, he dont sell diy kit.

 the DSP chip will be ready in March. currently the price difference guess is USD 100.

 What is the difference DSP and DAC :-

 1. Jitter free/almost free
 2. future upgrade made easy

 now u are connected using external transport, which has a source clock and data received in the spdif format. 

 The dac needs sync clock information between the dac and the incoming spdif stream. How good is that clock being read depends on the incoming spdif stream which is clock by the transport clock. In asynchronous mode, two separate clock is used i.e. the spdif clock info and the onboard dac clock. tests show that using sine wave, the difference in clock produces click which is audible. In actual listening, these clicks may not be audible until some sine wave occurs.

 If u have combined transport and dac together in one casing or (feed externally clock), u would get 'synchronized' clock feeding to the receiver which is DIR9001 and the DAC. This is what we would like to have but to do this is not easy, first is the galvanic isolation, difference in freq between transport and the dac (which may need a multiplier) isolation of the master clock. etc. list go on.

 Now u are feeding it with different clock from external transport. The AD1852 has onboard Phase Lock loop which locks the incoming spdif stream to extract the clock and data info.

 to be continued.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *godluvsxs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly I also skeptic about the sound improvement from steel casing to aluminum casing, but below were what Kingwa replied me in Chinese which I'm doubt he's in lack of words expressing himsef:

 "COMPASS的电源轻微比DAC100 差,但由于COMPASS使用全铝机箱,全铝机箱会比铁机箱在音质上有改善,因此声音品质会达到DAC10 0的水平"

 "COMPASS's power supply processing is slightly worse than DAC100, but due to COMPASS is using full aluminum casing, and aluminum casing does improves the sound quality better while switching from steel casing, so COMPASS's sound quality does reach the level of DAC100"

 Anyway, as Kingwa mentioned, COMPASS's DAC quality as good as DAC100 which selling for USD245 from audio-gd, basically those are getting COMPASS with USD258, you're paying price for a decent DAC and you are getting yourself a FREE decent headamp too, which is worth at least USD200 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My impression at the promotional price, we are getting a free Graham Slee Novo, its the only other discrete amp at a mid-fi price I know of, but I trust Kingwa's experience which discrete design and neutral sound. So yeah, I think we are all very lucky for this opportunity right now. And amazingly, not only has he gained a great reputation here, seems he has gained quite a number of customers for his full sized intense Reference Series DACs. Very impressive.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My impression at the promotional price, we are getting a free Graham Slee Novo, its the only other discrete amp at a mid-fi price I know of, but I trust Kingwa's experience which discrete design and neutral sound. So yeah, I think we are all very lucky for this opportunity right now. And amazingly, not only has he gained a great reputation here, seems he has gained quite a number of customers for his full sized intense Reference Series DACs. Very impressive._

 

What good is a free Graham Slee Novo if you don't even know what it sounds like?


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What good is a free Graham Slee Novo if you don't even know what it sounds like?_

 

Point is you get a free amp... Course I didn't know what the Compass would sound like, based it solely on other Head-Fiers experience with Kingwa in customer relations and his other products. I only knew about the DAC-100 and nothing about the amp, got myself a free Amp that I didn't what would sound like. And gee, sounds great. That's the point, I got free awesome discrete amp at a mid-fi price. And if I was to get a Graham Slee would be based on the innumerable reviews and impressions on this forum. And there is plenty of respect for Graham Slee and their Novo. Getting a free one regardless of having never heard one would be just fantastic. 

 I mentioned the Novo and explained why in the my posting directly. I don't understand what you are asking at all. Just felt like posting something?


----------



## haloxt

My point is your comparisons are pointless, we already know that the compass is a really good deal, what remains to be figured out is where it is in the scale of sound quality. And we still don't have detailed reviews of how it stacks up against modded Zeroes or how the DAC section alone sounds, and you're tossing in comments like how we're getting a free $400 discrete amp. And how can we compare the compass to the DAC-100 or anything else when it isn't burned-in yet? Wait until we got a good idea of how the compass dac/amp sections stack up before saying we're getting this or that for free.


----------



## mbd2884

Actually we can. The DAC-100 and the Compass was stated by Kingwa himself is the same except the DAC-100 has slightly better power source but is in a steel casing, not aluminum.

 Peete freaken developed the Frankenmod Zero and has already made comparisons to it a few times. So again yes we have an assessment there.

 Currawong has already listened and wrote initial impressions of the Compass using his Northstar, another amazing DAC. 
 - BTW has also been very informative with his comparison to the C2C which is set at a PROMOTIONAL price of 345 USD. So again we can infer yes we are getting ourselves a solid Mid-Fi amp for free.

 Drosera also has an impressive collection of audio gear which he has been using to make his assessments also.

 Sandchak has repeatedly already stated the Compass surpassed his current source. 

 So no my comparisons are not pointless at all, if you view it that way that's your problem. 

 And for the price, considering the DAC-100 is 245, and we are paying only 258 at retail, yes I can say we are getting ourselves a free mid-fi discrete amp. There is nothing wrong with what I said there. You obviously don't like what I have posted in the past and continue to express your disdain with these postings by inferring beyond what I have posted, that's your problem, not mine. And if I was you, I would then infer you are pretty much insulting Kingwa by saying that he lied about the DAC section of the Compass and the Amp is only worth 10 bucks. But then I'm not you and won't read into your postings as you have been.


----------



## haloxt

The compass' sound will evolve for several hundred hours, the fact that you're drawing premature conclusions is very irksome to me. You get all over people's backs about wanting comparisons of the compass with expensive dac/amps, and I am not allowed to say you are wrong for comparing the compass with things you have never heard and saying the compass is likely better? I care about objective reviews, and that requires hundreds of hours of burn-in. People have compared their compass still burning in to other gear, but these are premature and the problem with this is you won't really know how the compass compares, just how a unburned-in compass sounds. Until we've had that we won't know how it really sounds against even DAC-100 or other audio-gd equipment, and guessing won't be worth jack because all that matters is the sound after burn-in. How about stop being so paranoid defending the compass and stop making comparisons of the compass with things you've never heard of.


----------



## mbd2884

Its not premature. If you haven't read the postings earlier we are all have approached, surpassed or gotten very close the the 300 hours the testers agreed to.

 Its been already stated that Kingwa burned in the Compass for 100 hours. 

 Also forgot to mention that Phew has provided plenty of his impressions and he was among the first to receive his Compass also has made valid comparisons to his other gear.

 And for such much larger equipment with far more transistors, caps, and parts than the Compass, Tyson has stated he recommends 400 hours for his DAC8, which is a reference 1 without the DSP1. Pretty much everyone except Peete are beyond the 300 hours of burn in. 

 What I have posted have not been out of line, premature or any of the like. 

 If you ACTUALLY read any of my postings I have been careful to not make DEFINITIVE statements. Its always apparent that my statements are based on the preliminary and initial impressions of others.

 I trust Head-Fiers are in fact intelligent and can grasp what I have been posting. Fact you can't, again not my problem.

 You can go ahead and whine about the DAC-100 all you want. I'm going to trust Kingwa when he says the DAC-100 and the Compass are at the same level and when says there is only two differences between the two, but the differences balance each other out. Because now it does seem you are implying that Kingwa is a liar.

 You can keep whining about burning in even though almost all of us except Peete have reached the 300 hours already. Can complain all you want when the prominent reviewers here already have Audio-gd OpAmps already burned in with several hundred hours before ever receiving the Compass.

 Now I'm just at the point of laughing off my chair. Objective reviews? How long have you been a Head-Fi member? And you still haven't understood that Audio and this hobby is subjective yet? And still don't understand that we all hear things differently so no matter how experienced or how many audio gear one has, it will never ever be objective.

 There is a reason why Skylab is very appreciative of compliments he receives for his reviews. Because they are not objective, they are subjective, they are his opinions and based on his personal experience. When I P.Med him, he replied by thanking me for complimenting the reviews I enjoyed reading. 

 But whatever, I'm not going to continue this mud slinging contest with you, because that's all this has been and nothing more. You have problems with what I posted, P.M them to me, even if its likely I will ignore them.


----------



## haloxt

Ok, enjoy your free Graham Slee Novo.


----------



## mbd2884

Ok, you enjoy keep inferring beyond what I have posted and and putting words in my mouth that I did not say.

 Never did I say I got myself a free Novo. Apparently you didn't ready my post, or understood why I referred to the Novo.

 But as I had requested before, you should have P.Med that last insult rather than posting it here.


----------



## haloxt

It's not an insult, I'm just so happy for you that you and 17 others got a free Graham Slee Novo. I didn't even know it until you explained to me. Why, they're both discrete! Free $400 amp everybody!


----------



## mbd2884

I give up, I really do. If you don't want to READ what I posted don't even bother responding to my post. My posting had nothing to do with the Novo's signature or price, only that its the only other well known mid-fi discrete amp I know of. Really didn't want to have to explain that, as I do assume Head-Fiers to have a functional head.


----------



## haloxt

Well I think your posts are integrated, I prefer more discrete posts.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Mbd, your posts have caused a number of confrontations within this thread that really don't reflect well on you. Perhaps you should duck out gracefully and lay off the ridiculous comparisons you are using to justify your purchase to yourself. It's getting excessive. I'm pretty sure haloxt is a good indication how sick of it everyone else is getting, the rest of us are just holding our tongues. 

 Just relax and enjoy your Compass. I can't wait for V2 to come out!


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mbd, your posts have caused a number of confrontations within this thread that really don't reflect well on you. Perhaps you should duck out gracefully and lay off the ridiculous comparisons you are using to justify your purchase to yourself. It's getting excessive. I'm pretty sure haloxt is a good indication how sick of it everyone else is getting, the rest of us are just holding our tongues. 

 Just relax and enjoy your Compass. I can't wait for V2 to come out!_

 

My sentiments exactly.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mbd, your posts have caused a number of confrontations within this thread that really don't reflect well on you. Perhaps you should duck out gracefully and lay off the ridiculous comparisons you are using to justify your purchase to yourself. It's getting excessive. I'm pretty sure haloxt is a good indication how sick of it everyone else is getting, the rest of us are just holding our tongues. 

 Just relax and enjoy your Compass. I can't wait for V2 to come out!_

 

Would love to know what comparison I have made that were ridiculous. I have made ONE comparison. Yes I agree I am happy with the Compass, but I have not been making ridiculous comparison, the only other confrontations I had was over the paper specs of the 152 and Compass, which far as I am concerned was not a big issue and if you actually read what transpired between myself and Majkel, you would realize he was not upset at the end of it. The other was pointing out that no matter how many reviews one reads, none of them matter until you hear it for yourself, which I started with saying I was amused.

 I have not made any comparisons whatsoever about the sound or SQ of the Compass to any DAC or Amp.

 Saying the DAC-100 and Compass DAC are practically the same? Saying that price wise, the Compass is a solid Mid-Fi option? Saying that Compass will most likely be a competitor to the 152? Yes my observations are ridiculous. 

 Another person putting words in my mouth and inferring far more than what I have posted, which is surprising as my posts are very clear to the point.

 And I still have not made any definitive statements about the Compass other than what it is. 

 The last confrontation was a response to this post

  Quote:


 My impression at the promotional price, we are getting a free Graham Slee Novo, its the only other discrete amp at a mid-fi price I know of, but I trust Kingwa's experience which discrete design and neutral sound. So yeah, I think we are all very lucky for this opportunity right now. And amazingly, not only has he gained a great reputation here, seems he has gained quite a number of customers for his full sized intense Reference Series DACs. Very impressive. 
 

It wasn't even a comparison. It was an agreement that we are fortunate to have this promotional price, haloxt's agenda to put words in my mouth is his business, but nothing to do with what I actually posted. And yeah what I posted there was definitely confrontational (it's called sarcasm). My brash responses were only after he starting accusing me of making meaningless, ridiculous comparisons, ironically the post he responded wasn't even a comparison to any DAC, Amp or DAC/Amp combo product.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Lets all play nice, shall we? This thread is about the Compass. It has evolved past the point of speculation and hope, and initial impressions have all been positive.

 Technical comparisons to other, unheard products are pointless, and are nothing more than speculation. The Subaru Impreza is, technically, an utterly superb machine, capable of paving the way in comparison to other cars. But in the real world, the rather old Peugeot 205GTi is much more fun, engaging to drive and makes you grin all the time, whereas the Impreza needs to be doing over 100mph to give you the same grin.

 You'll never, ever deduce that by looking at facts, figures, and speculating about how it might perform.

 Bickering is also pointless.

 I think "final thoughts" on the Compass are going to be a good while away. Comparing the newer Earth OPA to the older, well-used one, there are still striking differences, even after ~200 hours of use. IMO, it would be unfair to base a conclusion of the product when the Compass is still maturing - and I believe it will still be doing so, given the contrast of the used and new Earth modules.

 I tend to think we'll see honest reviews on mature equipment in around another 3 weeks or so, personally. But that's speculation at this point, and is based on how the HDAM module is coming of age.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Patience and cool heads must prevail with audio-gd gear....many a time when I thought things had quit evolving I'd sit down to brass tacks and notice another evolution...back to square one....I knew going into this the target would be in motion...when it stops is any ones guess but I feel at the very least 350 hours is base level 1.

 Will there be more ? I can't say for sure but I wouldn't be surprised ....if that evolution stops at 350-400 hours I'll be the last to note such an event but you guys are aware of why that may be.....

 In the meantime let's keep the impressions coming and leave any possible speculation,comparisons (unless you have that piece of gear on hand) aside for now. 

 I concur with AP's length of time projection (and his other salient points)...another 3 weeks should be the ticket....let's focus on the Compass for this time period.

 I think some of you are reading too far into mbd's statements...he's simply drawing inference to what he thinks may be relevant from a speculative point of view...it's natural to want to seek out a proposed competitor based on topology...what's the harm in mentioning the name of that competitor ?...nothing was stated about the Compass being better or worse than that named piece of gear...so lets all relax please.

 Listening to some wonderful 80's stuff...The The - Infected.......one of the great recordings for sure......sounds very well controlled and real when compared with the ref rig's superior abilities with the same CD ....it lacks the weight and the sheer visceral experience of the ref rig ( I don't expect a 400US unit, or any Head Fi rig to compete with a 40K traditional rig) , none the less the rendition is very good and enjoyable. Fidelity continues to evolve with slight improvements in the mid and treble regions. Seems more of "a piece" or whole in nature now (if you've ever had Magnepan 1.6R's/ET LFT VIIIB's or heard them you'll know what that means). SNR is very very good. Detail is there, nuance easily heard, decay and delay reproduced as intended. All positive indicators of good fidelity.

 I should preface those comments with this notion in mind...all of these indicators being pointed out are what should be rendered with any quality amp...it's the level at which these are revealed that separates good from great. That being said I don't expect miracles from the Compass but good to possible great performance (in some areas it's already there) for it's price tag (even at 400US) is certainly within the realm of possibility. It certainly has acquitted itself well thus far. 

 Peete.


----------



## decayed.cell

So back on track... Curra could we get those frequency response curves with RMAA?


----------



## csroc

Just swapped my Moon out for the Earth... definitely seems a bit more neutral and with a bit more attack on the dynamics. Differences don't seem to be staggering but they're there.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So back on track... Curra could we get those frequency response curves with RMAA?_

 

I might have a go, when I'm up for mucking around with Windows (I have a Mac).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

What average vol levels are you all listening at....most of the time I'm at 9 o'clock and sometimes a little higher or a little lower. HD650's of course.

 Peete.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

So I'm looking at a pair of SR325i... anyone have any opinions? Should I look into moon or earth? I haven't had any experience with the 325i yet at all. I love my SR80's now so I'm looking for a way to improve on them in every way, but I've heard the highs are piercing, so I don't know how to deal with that.


----------



## Doorknob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What average vol levels are you all listening at....most of the time I'm at 9 o'clock and sometimes a little higher or a little lower. HD650's of course.

 Peete._

 

At around 8'o clock and this is with the 13dB and lowering my soundcard volume output about one third. Using Modded HA-RX 900 at the moment.

 I'm planning to post my next impressions this Friday, which by then the Compass should've burned in for two weeks plus 100 hours, making a grand total of 456 hours. I'm wondering about putting downloads of music (I got them free from some Japanese Indie music site and it seems pretty legal. Has the artists profile and even links it to their websites if they have one. With them linking to that site with downloads and vice versa) so that people can share impressions I have made, whether it'd be the same or different. I'm pretty sure this isn't against forum rules, so if nobody has anything to say against it, I'll probably go ahead and link the music from the site. After all this is a big group dedication to improve the Compass and solidify its reviews to the public at large wanting to buy such a system with limited budget. 

 Then again since this is my first time doing anything (even reviewing) my idea might be too radical. Just a suggestion though.

 On the other note, one thing I'll say before I post my impressions is that the highs have changed dramatically. Enough to easily, and very easily, tell the difference between an un-burned Compass with a Compass with much more hours of burn in.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I'm looking at a pair of SR325i... anyone have any opinions? Should I look into moon or earth? I haven't had any experience with the 325i yet at all. I love my SR80's now so I'm looking for a way to improve on them in every way, but I've heard the highs are piercing, so I don't know how to deal with that._

 

This may seem odd and still does to me.

 The AD900 are better at the Mid/Treble range. The Moon is certainly has a warmer and smother sound. So I assumed Moon would provide what the AD900 lacks, but, personally for me was bit dissapointing.

 Earth, which works towards AD900s strength improved my enjoyment of music vastly.

 So its hard to say what will work with your SR325i. Whether Moon to mellow out the highs, or use Sun that will emphasize its strengths. I would note that Moon seemed to me increase Soundstage noticeably over Earth. So for SR325i that might be an added benefit.

 This is something most likely you will have to try for yourself and decide then. Drosera can give his impressions, but no telling what pleases him will be same for you. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What average vol levels are you all listening at....most of the time I'm at 9 o'clock and sometimes a little higher or a little lower. HD650's of course.

 Peete._

 

I have Foobar at -10 dB and Compass never goes beyond 10 o Clock, and that's when I want to blast it. Its around 8-9 most of the time. And my Compass is using the 13 gain setting. AD900 is the cans I use with the Compass.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What average vol levels are you all listening at....most of the time I'm at 9 o'clock and sometimes a little higher or a little lower. HD650's of course._

 

I'm usually listening below 9 o'clock, somewhere around 8 usually with higher impedance cans. With low impedance (Grado and such) I have it about 7 o'clock. (All from the coax of a simple pioneer DVD/Hi-rez player.) So yes, changing the gain a little might be nice, but I can imagine that that would involve changes in the PCB. Another thought for consideration is the fact the changing gain seems to be more than just changing the volume. It usually has noticeable effects on the sound signature as well. What are your thoughts about that, Peete? 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I'm looking at a pair of SR325i... anyone have any opinions? Should I look into moon or earth? I haven't had any experience with the 325i yet at all. I love my SR80's now so I'm looking for a way to improve on them in every way, but I've heard the highs are piercing, so I don't know how to deal with that._

 

I have the SR-325i's and, yes, they do have pronounced highs, but I certainly would not call them piercing. They're apparently quite coloured and that makes them rather friendly in my ears, far more comfortable in that area than the DT880's are. I haven't tried them with Moon yet, I hope I can get around to it soon, I'm using Earth all the time now. My main caveat is that up till now my limited experience tells me that the Grado's just don't really work with powerful solid-state amplifiers. There's always something seriously missing in the PRaT-department. Oddly, I get much more enjoyable results from just plugging them into one or other 1980's integrated amp. It's almost like they weren't made to be amplified in any sophisticated way (which might be true), but maybe I should try tubes.

 I'll give some listening impressions later. Any music I should test them with in particular? (I'll probably end up bashing the recordings again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## csroc

I'm mostly around 9 o'clock as well with my HD650s and around 8 o'clock with my AD900s which is why I suggested Kingwa drop the gain even more.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks guys.....DK as long as the file is not copyright and is open source you shouldn't have trouble linking to it.

 drosera....the gain level has an impact on SQ ? Try and match SPL and then swap back and forth to test (say 85db ). It could be the amp has a sweet spot for operation although that's more typical of tube amps and not SS stuff. There are exceptions to that rule though.

 Hmm....thanks for pointing that out..I'll have to investigate that further tomorrow when the evaluation process for the review starts in earnest. I had planned on basing the entire review around the stock settings (19 db gain/Neutral voicing) with the only change additional notes on how the Earth module fairs vs the Moon. The soft settings will change for V2 so I might as well wait until then to delve into them in detail. The V2 update you could say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Of course for preamp testing I'll drop the gain to 13db, but I will look into this for sure.... cheers guys
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS Drosera could you describe the changes in signature please between gain settings. Doesn't have to be in great detail.


----------



## godluvsxs

For those who are seeking for a decent DAC, I would strongly suggest follow the development of Reference Three DAC. It's main attraction point is the DSP1 and Current Transmission Technology. 

 From what I seen from Kingwa's past posting in his Chinese discussion forum, he did an interesting between a DSP-1 equipped audio-gd's top dac (forgotten the model ) and A non DSP-1 inside same audio-gd's top dac.

 Pairing:
 hypermarket grade dvd player -> dac with DSP-1 -> audio-gd's top amplifier -> audio-gd's top speaker


 audio-gd's CD3 transport (hit item between china local audio-gd supporter, limited supply and selling for around USD700)-> same dac without DSP-1 -> audio-gd's top amplifier -> audio-gd's top speaker

 conclusion: To Kingwa's surprise, the sound quality difference between hypermarket grade DVD player and the top CD3 is so small, with just small refinement over the spectrum. Last time without the help of DSP-1, the sound quality between normal DVD player and CD3 is quite significant till all local Chinese user racing to buy the CD3, even now when a USED CD3 transport appear for sale, there's no short of buyer to snip it!

 While the Current Transmission Technology is basically the same tech using by Krell in it's USD10,000 level amplifier. Kingwa mentioned before, with the use of Current Transmission Technology, it does significantly minimize the sound quality between professional grade cable (llikes of Canare and Mogami) and hifi grade expensive cable (like those mid range (USB200) - top range cable(over USD300). When compare to balanced connection using same cable (based on China local user feedback), Current Transmission appear to be better on detail and sound balance. Of course u need a Current Transmission Tech supported amplifier/headamp to the tech working, no worries ... for headphone user you got C-2C headamp to pair with, while speaker setup you got FBI series and CIA series to complete the chain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Basically with the implementation of Current Transmission and DSP-1, you're saving yourself more money and less headache in transport and cable, aint a small amount I could say, in audio-gd way at least USD1000


----------



## shampoosuicide

Guys, how does the DAC100/Compass compare to the Franken-modded Zero?


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I might have a go, when I'm up for mucking around with Windows (I have a Mac)._

 

Could anyone else with Windoze have a shot please


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys, how does the DAC100/Compass compare to the Franken-modded Zero?_

 

Peete should be coming up with that answer soon..


----------



## shampoosuicide

posted in wrong thread


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *godluvsxs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who are seeking for a decent DAC, I would strongly suggest follow the development of Reference Three DAC. It's main attraction point is the DSP1 and Current Transmission Technology. 

 From what I seen from Kingwa's past posting in his Chinese discussion forum, he did an interesting between a DSP-1 equipped audio-gd's top dac (forgotten the model ) and A non DSP-1 inside same audio-gd's top dac.

 Pairing:
 hypermarket grade dvd player -> dac with DSP-1 -> audio-gd's top amplifier -> audio-gd's top speaker


 audio-gd's CD3 transport (hit item between china local audio-gd supporter, limited supply and selling for around USD700)-> same dac without DSP-1 -> audio-gd's top amplifier -> audio-gd's top speaker

 conclusion: To Kingwa's surprise, the sound quality difference between hypermarket grade DVD player and the top CD3 is so small, with just small refinement over the spectrum. Last time without the help of DSP-1, the sound quality between normal DVD player and CD3 is quite significant till all local Chinese user racing to buy the CD3, even now when a USED CD3 transport appear for sale, there's no short of buyer to snip it!

 While the Current Transmission Technology is basically the same tech using by Krell in it's USD10,000 level amplifier. Kingwa mentioned before, with the use of Current Transmission Technology, it does significantly minimize the sound quality between professional grade cable (llikes of Canare and Mogami) and hifi grade expensive cable (like those mid range (USB200) - top range cable(over USD300). When compare to balanced connection using same cable (based on China local user feedback), Current Transmission appear to be better on detail and sound balance. Of course u need a Current Transmission Tech supported amplifier/headamp to the tech working, no worries ... for headphone user you got C-2C headamp to pair with, while speaker setup you got FBI series and CIA series to complete the chain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Basically with the implementation of Current Transmission and DSP-1, you're saving yourself more money and less headache in transport and cable, aint a small amount I could say, in audio-gd way at least USD1000 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Interesting stuff. I mentioned the Ref 1 (and the reason I was getting it) elsewhere and the "shill" word was politely dropped, along with other, slightly negative, albeit polite comments about people's enthusiasm for Audio-gd products, which is making some people suspicious and dampening even my restrained enthusiasm.

 However, I'm very much looking forward to getting a Ref 1, a pair of HD-800s and being able to sit in audio nirvana. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Back on topic: The comparison I was going to do between the DAC 1 and Compass today was canned (ha!) so it'll have to wait.

 I'm currently very much enjoying, however my Northstar -> C2C with the Audio-gd power cables and my Zu-cabled HD-600s.


----------



## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I'm looking at a pair of SR325i... anyone have any opinions? Should I look into moon or earth?_

 

Neither. OPA Sun v.2.


----------



## theBigD

why the sun v2 for grado? havent seen much of a ringing endorsement for sun. doesnt it have a tipped high and bass presentation, oh now i get it, would that emulate the gs 1000 in his 325i?


----------



## godluvsxs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting stuff. I mentioned the Ref 1 (and the reason I was getting it) elsewhere and the "shill" word was politely dropped, along with other, slightly negative, albeit polite comments about people's enthusiasm for Audio-gd products, which is making some people suspicious and dampening even my restrained enthusiasm.

 However, I'm very much looking forward to getting a Ref 1, a pair of HD-800s and being able to sit in audio nirvana. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Back on topic: The comparison I was going to do between the DAC 1 and Compass today was canned (ha!) so it'll have to wait.

 I'm currently very much enjoying, however my Northstar -> C2C with the Audio-gd power cables and my Zu-cabled HD-600s._

 

Too bad the show between DAC 1 and Compass canned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway your pairing of Ref 1 + C2C + HD800 would be very much sums up your headphile journey


----------



## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why the sun v2 for grado? havent seen much of a ringing endorsement for sun. doesnt it have a tipped high and bass presentation, oh now i get it, would that emulate the gs 1000 in his 325i?_

 

Because this is the only Audio-gd HDAM with complete midrange, sounding thick overall, which helps any Grado's. I tried all Audio-gd op-amps with the SR325i, too. They have too neutral midrange to accept the Earth's or Moon's incompleteness, no matter it's sweet, sour, bright or dark.


----------



## Sganzerla

I'm using my K701 around 7/8 o'clock most of the time - 13dB gain.
 Maximum I reach is 9 o'clock with low volume songs.

 Yesterday I swaped coaxial and USB and now looks like there is no difference at all, and it was obviously clear the first time... Later will try my scanner USB cable to see if it changes something.

 160 hours here and counting...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Interesting Sganzerla.....I'm currently running a Vinyl rig into the Compasses line in connection in super mode. Very nice I must say.

 This amp and a TT/ Tube phono stage work very well together.

 Another feather in the Compass cap.

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because this is the only Audio-gd HDAM with complete midrange, sounding thick overall, which helps any Grado's. I tried all Audio-gd op-amps with the SR325i, too. They have too neutral midrange to accept the Earth's or Moon's incompleteness, no matter it's sweet, sour, bright or dark._

 

Wow, Majkel, it seems you're absolutely right. I found it such a 'wild' suggestion that I had to try it out rightaway. I used Equilibrium's latest album "Sagas", which I just love, but it's very fast and dense music captured in an incredibly compressed recording. First I used Earth and that worked okay-ish. Then I put in the Sun (it's first outing, so it hasn't had any burn-in at all) and that really makes a huge change for the better. The midrange gains enormously in clarity, dynamics increase significantly making the whole both more enjoyable and more exciting. Excellent.


----------



## haloxt

Isn't the Sun V2's presentation a little too in-your-face?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_drosera....the gain level has an impact on SQ ? Try and match SPL and then swap back and forth to test (say 85db ). It could be the amp has a sweet spot for operation although that's more typical of tube amps and not SS stuff. There are exceptions to that rule though._

 

Sorry, I should have expressed myself somewhat more clearly. I wasn't speaking about the Compass in particular. I have only listened to the high gain setting of the Compass for a moment (I wonder who would actually use it?), but didn't notice a really significant difference in sound signature with the low gain setting. However, where this difference _is_ very noticeable is with the low and high gain of the Corda Opera. Mind you, the difference between the settings is quite a bit bigger there, going from -5 to 8 dB (I think, the manual isn't exactly clear. Also, how did that logarithmic scale work again..?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). This has a very noticeable impact on the sound signature, flattening it, but also giving everything in the foreground a boost in presence which results in a far less subtle and atmospheric result. This has been noted by many people about the Opera and similar discussions do pop up from time to time about gain in general. So, I wonder, is there a possibility that a change in gain will affect the frequency response of a headphone in some way? Apparently, with matched SPL the voltage output should be the same, but is there anything else that could change? And are there perhaps different ways to implement a gain stage?

 Anyways, questions, questions, but what would you expect with my electrical engineering knowledge being basically one step removed from total ignorance. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The bottomline is, that I wonder if making the difference between the gain settings larger (or perhaps making the 13 dB setting the high gain and adding a lower one) could theoretically affect the sound.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Isn't the Sun V2's presentation a little too in-your-face?_

 

Well, the Grado's (and certainly the SR-325i) are all about 'in your face'. That's basically the point. But I didn't find the experience uncomfortable to listen to, quite the opposite, although I expect it to be tiring in the long run. You might need a breather now and then.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Ya know... I really like the sound of this whole SunV2 idea. This whole time I have been thinking about ways to try and tame the cans, but really, they needed some steroids. I am most likely going to take you up on your suggestion.

 How do you like the 325i with the Compass anyway? I've been wondering how much they will benefit from an amp. I also still need to make my final decision and just buy a pair. My poor wallet.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the Grado's (and certainly the SR-325i) are all about 'in your face'. That's basically the point. But I didn't find the experience uncomfortable to listen to, quite the opposite, although I expect it to be tiring in the long run. You might need a breather now and then._

 

Hi,
 In the Zero thread, this was a continuing theme there. The SUN was "fun" at first and then was too much after a while. Kinda like eating Cotton Candy. You like it at the fair once a year, but don't want to eat it for Dinner every night. I have the Earth and didn't get the SUN due to folks switching back to the Earth in the Long Run. Let us know how you like it. I have GS1000's and couldn't imagine running the SUN, so the SUN suggestion was intriguing.


 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya know... I really like the sound of this whole SunV2 idea. This whole time I have been thinking about ways to try and tame the cans, but really, they needed some steroids. I am most likely going to take you up on your suggestion.

 How do you like the 325i with the Compass anyway? I've been wondering how much they will benefit from an amp. I also still need to make my final decision and just buy a pair. My poor wallet._

 

They seem to work pretty well together, and I hadn't really expected it. Certainly with the Sun. I still have that feeling of overkill with it though, like the Grado's are far more tightly controlled by the amp than is strictly necessary. (Hard to describe what that does for the sound though. Maybe it's just me.) Grain in the highs is very noticeable, but that's basically expected as both the amp and the Sun are a long way from full burn-in (Majkel will disagree about that last bit). But I still have the feeling that they would benefit from a 'lusher' sound.

 The main problem I find is with the gain that is being discussed here. The Grado's are very low impedance 'phones and combined with things like (compressed) extreme metal, I actually have to put the volume knob at about 7 o'clock just to avoid the very noticeable channel imbalance that occurs right below it. And that results in a listening volume that's actually slightly above recommendable volume level. On the other hand, I do feel a slight urge to turn the volume up regardless, this is not a bad sign.


----------



## senn_liu

i have a suggestion for the 18 testers which i think would benefit most of us following this thread.

 now that most of the testers should be ready to give their reviews, why not have a common template for the 18 (or less) reviews, then compile the reviews into a word document or pdf? 

 this way, everybody will be commenting on the same aspects of the compass which makes it easier to get a general impression of the product, and the reviews won't be scattered through many pages.

 examples of areas for analysis: bass, mids, highs, soundstage, compatible/incompatible equipment, worthy alternatives to the compass at a similar price point etc. etc.

 just my $0.20, for everybody's benefit, provided the 18 are into giving it a go.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They seem to work pretty well together, and I hadn't really expected it. Certainly with the Sun. I still have that feeling of overkill with it though, like the Grado's are far more tightly controlled by the amp than is strictly necessary. (Hard to describe what that does for the sound though. Maybe it's just me.) Grain in the highs is very noticeable, but that's basically expected as both the amp and the Sun are a long way from full burn-in (Majkel will disagree about that last bit). But I still have the feeling that they would benefit from a 'lusher' sound.

 The main problem I find is with the gain that is being discussed here. The Grado's are very low impedance 'phones and combined with things like (compressed) extreme metal, I actually have to put the volume knob at about 7 o'clock just to avoid the very noticeable channel imbalance that occurs right below it. And that results in a listening volume that's actually slightly above recommendable volume level. On the other hand, I do feel a slight urge to turn the volume up regardless, this is not a bad sign._

 

Thanks for the impressions, I think I'm still going to give it a try when the time comes. For now, I've just got to keep counting my pennies.

 It seems that the volume thing is affecting a lot of people, perhaps we need an even lower gain setting? I know the Audio-gd compass page mentions something about adding a gain switch, but has anyone mentioned perhaps adding an even lower gain setting? I am also assuming that you were using the lower of the two gain settings, 9, I think?


----------



## Taikero

I second the idea for some kind of review compilation, or at least a link from the main page to the individual posts which reflect points of interest and in-depth impressions.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems that the volume thing is affecting a lot of people, perhaps we need an even lower gain setting? I know the Audio-gd compass page mentions something about adding a gain switch, but has anyone mentioned perhaps adding an even lower gain setting? I am also assuming that you were using the lower of the two gain settings, 9, I think?_

 



 Several people have suggested it. When the volume knob is at the first 30 degrees it will raise the volume of one side and then the other, after the first 30 degrees there's no channel imbalance. The current settings are 13 and 19dB.


----------



## dBs

Couldnt you just put links on the OP to each of the reviews in this thread or to the off site locations? Then they are consolidated.

 The common format is a good idea though. Then maybe specific songs as well that were tested for overall impression. I would say of different genres so as to test the different aspects since what favors trance doesnt favor classical. If I were to do a review I would break it up by: bass, mid, high, and at least 1 song from each of the main genres, and finally songs that have particular traits that demand fluidity or speed, etc. Needless to say when I get to sample the Compass it will be a long review, hahaha.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the impressions, I think I'm still going to give it a try when the time comes. For now, I've just got to keep counting my pennies._

 

Sure, far be it from me to advise someone _not_ to buy a Compass. Even if in the end you don't really like them with Grado's you'll still have a great DAC that in itself is more than worth the modest asking price (IMHO). You can always add something like an affordable Little Dot tube amp later on.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure, far be it from me to advise someone not to buy a Compass. Even if in the end you don't really like them with Grado's you'll still have a great DAC that in itself is more than worth the modest asking price (IMHO). You can always add something like an affordable Little Dot tube amp later on._

 

I'm pretty much set on picking up the Compass as soon as V2 comes out. I'm on a relatively strict budget, so when a product comes out priced ~$200 under what it should be selling for, that's when I make my move. It's hard for me to even consider anything but the Compass.

 I'm pretty sure I will be happy with whatever setup I get. I don't have enough exposure to high-end gear to really set any benchmarks.

 So whats this about raising channel volume one at a time? I'm going to be using the Compass with low impedance phones(SR80 to start), I don't want to blow out my hearing to get rid of channel imbalance. Any other comments on this? If the Compass was actually tested with the SR80's like it says on the website, I can't imagine it being an issue, but I just want to make sure.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So whats this about raising channel volume one at a time? I'm going to be using the Compass with low impedance phones(SR80 to start), I don't want to blow out my hearing to get rid of channel imbalance. Any other comments on this? If the Compass was actually tested with the SR80's like it says on the website, I can't imagine it being an issue, but I just want to make sure._

 

Hm, yeah, maybe the testing was mainly done to see whether it could drive all those phones. It can drive them fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Apart from that, we've already heard that it can basically do Sennheisers, AKGs, Denons, ATs... It's certainly versatile enough.


----------



## Sparky14

Hey testers, I've currently got HD650s being driven by a LD MkIII straight from the HP out of my Netbook.

 Would I be better served with the Compass via USB? Can't really add an additional DAC unit to the LD, need something that isn't too bulky on the desk.


----------



## haloxt

DayoftheGreek,

 With the volume set at minimum, then moving it anywhere in the first 30 degrees, you will hear the volume higher in one ear than the other. This is channel imbalance. I thought this would be a non-issue, but then the volume knob is within the first 30 degrees while being in the listening level of Drosera's headphones. I'm pretty sure V2 will have a lower gain setting due to this so don't worry about it anymore.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DayoftheGreek,

 With the volume set at minimum, then moving it anywhere in the first 30 degrees, you will hear the volume higher in one ear than the other. This is channel imbalance. I thought this would be a non-issue, but then the volume knob is within the first 30 degrees while being in the listening level of Drosera's headphones. I'm pretty sure V2 will have a lower gain setting due to this so don't worry about it anymore._

 

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

 So with the V2 comes the preamp function with RCA connectors. Would the compass have enough power to drive a small set of bookshelf speakers, or would they need something more powerful? I have almost no experience with speakers, so I'm curious as to how much power they require.


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## mbd2884

Wrong and Right.

 I have not experienced any channel imbalance when I set Foobar to between -20dB and -15 dB. Once its past -10 db and on, then I notice the channel imbalance. As for gain, don't think that will happen. Kingwa has indicated to me he will not be making any circuit design changes. His changes will be the cosmetic, new RCA input, the gain switch, switch for soft1, soft2 and neutral. 

 Reason: Volume Pot design.

  Quote:


 Compass volume control known as “ parallel connection volume control”.In this case, the signal direct feed to the amp does not pass through the potentiometer, as a result the sound is far better, than the general kind of volume control.

 “ parallel connection volume control” sound is better but the only problem is the minimum volume not
 “ -∞DB”, but “-80DB”,so while volume turn to minimun, can hear very slight sound from headphone.


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## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 In the Zero thread, this was a continuing theme there. The SUN was "fun" at first and then was too much after a while. Kinda like eating Cotton Candy. You like it at the fair once a year, but don't want to eat it for Dinner every night. I have the Earth and didn't get the SUN due to folks switching back to the Earth in the Long Run. Let us know how you like it. I have GS1000's and couldn't imagine running the SUN, so the SUN suggestion was intriguing.._

 

Back when I was using my Senns, I adored the Sun v1. I initially used it, and loved it, then went over to the Earth. Overall, I preferred the Sun, and that stayed in my Zero.

 However, when I got my Stax rig, the Sun was just too sparkly. The Stax stuff has a far, far bigger upper-range than the Senns, and the additional brightness was just overwhelming after a couple of days.

 My advice would be to treat the opinions of everyone on here as guidance only. Different personal tastes, headphones, amplifiers, sources and music mean there are simply far too many variables to make a fully informed decision based on those opinions.

 Of course, the general consensus of postings still holds true. The Earth is very neutral and balanced, and utterly beautiful for it. The Sun is akin to hitting the "loudness" button on many solid-state amplifiers - the bass and treble both receive a "kick", giving a very enjoyable sound, and making it quite easy to pick out certain details. And the Moon... thick midrange. A pleasing, laidback sound for many people, but it lacks the "glamour" of the sun, and isn't as accurate as the Earth.

 All are superb, and each design will have their own fans. Each unit will mate extremely well to certain equipment, and ears. But the only real way to do this is to buy, and thoroughly experience, each unit and to come to your own conclusions.

 If money is tight, one can always resell the unwanted units. Personally, I'll keep them all for future reference. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


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## Joeoboe

I am one of the Compass 18. I have been working hard doing an evaluation and should have it ready for publishing in a few more hours... I have to eat first! Should I post it here, on the Audio-gd Compass "Tester's" group or should I make a new post under Headphone amps (Full Sized)?


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## Pricklely Peete

I'd post it here since this version isn't the final production model. That's just IMO though.

 Peete.


----------



## Joeoboe

*Audio-gd Compass Prototype Review*

 As one the “Compass 18”, I wanted to take a very systematic approach to its evaluation. First I burned in the Compass according to Kingwa's recommended procedure. I did that for 168 hours before performing the evaluation. During this time I also took the opportunity to burn in the Earth module that I had received by running it in my Zero. I have an older style Earth module with many hundreds of hours on it, but wanted to compare directly the items that are presently sold. 
 I wanted to limit variables in this review since the Compass itself has so many variables built in (swappable HDAMs, 4 tone settings). I did not review the DAC and headphone amp separately but only as the combo unit which is it's primary purpose. I chose to use only one set of headphones, the AKG K701s. This set has over 800 hours on them. They are very revealing and truly a pig to drive, so I thought they would be a perfect choice.

*Equipment Used*

 Source: Western Digital WD TV Media Player playing FLAC files
 DAC/Amp: Compass (original design) with Moon and Earth HDAM
 Interconnects: Pure Glass fibre optical cable
 Headphone: AKG K701
*
 Music*

 Fear of a Blank Planet, by Porcupine Tree – A heavy prog-rock band in the mold of Pink Floyd and Radiohead, this track has aggressive percussion, driving bass lines, chucky guitar riffs and expansive vocal harmonies ( yes expansive vocal harmonies!) This track gets very heavy and thick sounding, but then has sudden changes in dynamic and texture. 

 Into the Future, by Bass 305 – As you might guess from the name of the band... DEEP bass. Also nice electronic ambient effects and snappy percussion.

 Joan of Arc, by Jennifer Warnes – From the 20 anniversiry remaster of Famous Blue Raincoat, this track features a beautiful female vocal, a raspy wale vocal, and an anthem sytle arrangement. It is nicely recorded with lots of layers but each one easily discerable.

 Playtronics Break-in, by James Horner – Track number 7 from the movie soundtrack to Sneakers, this is one of my favorite demo pieces. It is a spectacular recording of a medium to small sized orchestra with lots of great percussion, piano, brass, woodwind and string textures... REALLY good. Also along for the ride is Branford Marsalis playing a solo soprano sax line. Huge dynamics, great soundstaging, an entire orchestra of textures to listen to AND piano... If you want ONE track to evaluate a hifi system, this is my choice.

 Chinese Way, by Level 42 – When looking for a funk pop piece to add to my list, how could I resist this track? The title alone makes it appropriate. It is also recorded on the bright side, so that it will show up any nastiness in the treble response.

 If It Be Your Will, by Jennifer Warnes – A bonus track, formally unreleased on the original Famous Blue Raincoat, this is a simple song that starts with 2 arpeggiated guitars, each in their own channel playing different parts. The effect is sort of like an huge 12 string guitar. Then the bass enters... subtle but DEEP. I love the quality of this bass... extremely deep but never in your face. Over this Warnes sings a simple vocal line... just delightful.

 Solo oboe, by myself and Alex Klein – I am a professional oboist and I have made a number of recordings of myself over the years. I find these very useful when evaluating new gear or changes to my hifi system since I am intimately aware of how it is supposed to sound in real life. Since these are private recordings and not available to the public, I added a track from Alex Klein's “Fantasies and Partitas” Track 29, so that if anyone else is interested in repeating any of my evaluation, they can.

*Listening impressions*

 I started listening to the Compass set with the Moon HDAM and neutral tone settings. The first thing that was immediately apparent was the the enormous soundstage and ambience it reproduced. The smoothness of the midrange and treble was also impressive. Yoo really did not even notice the treble it was so smooth. It was very musical and pleasant. 
 Also noticed was the incredible power of the headphone amp. With my 701s I am used to pushing amps pretty hard in order to get a decent output... and sometimes amps just can't drive them. On the Compass I had to run the volume control at 9 o'clock!! Yikes! I reduced the gain to the lower (13db?) setting. Even then I couljd never approach 12 o'clock... mostly I ran at 10 o'clock. Wow... powerful amp!

 As I listen to each track I made notes... and started to see a pattern... “smooth” “spacious” “musical” were words that kept appearing... along with another phrase... “something not right in midrange”...hmm. When I got the final tracks, the solo oboe tracks, it became apparent what the problem was. There is a depression somewhere in the upper midrange that was making the solo oboe sound like it was using a bad reed. It made the oboe sound thin and more nasal than it did in real life.
 I had used a Moon in my Zero before and never noticed this before... but I figured I would switch to the Earth HDAM.

 As soon as I installed the Earth I went directly to the solo oboe tracks. Ahh... THAT was it! Now is sounded correct... in fact it sounded more than just correct: It sounded more immediate and involving. The vibrato was more present and the midrange was rich and penetrating but not edgy in the least. Ok... so now I am on to something. I listend to the entire set of test tracks and read my notes that I written with the Moon installed. The sound was no longer primarily smooth and spacious, but was now involving and powerful... and yes STILL musical. The sound never got edgy or rude. And another item got much better... the bass. It seemed to dig deeper with more control and resolution. Fun fun!

 At that point I needed to rest my ears so I ended for the evening.

 The next day, I started fresh in the morning with a plan. I was going to do another entire evaluation of the tracks using the Earth HDAM... BUT I was also going to evaluate the Soft 1-3 settings. Since removing something from the sound usually makes you think it sounds worse, I decided to evaluate the settings backwards, starting with Soft 3 and ending with neutral. So, the first thing I heard that day was with the Soft 3 setting engaged. The following are my track by track results complied and edited to make it easier to read.
*
 Fear of a Blank Planet*

*Soft 3* This track sounded really really good. Even in the busiest sections there was no glare or listening fatigue. The midrange seemed untouched and the midrange detail allowed you to hear all the layers of this fairly thick mix. Very musical.
*Soft 2* This setting made the opening guitars sound more spacious and detailed... but the entire track seemed to lack impact compared to Soft 3.
*Soft 1* This gave me more of the string noise on the frets from the opening guitars.. and more powerful bass... really? Yup... I double checked... it seemed like the bass was more powerful... like Soft 3. The dense sections of the mix got a bit harsh but the soft sections were nicely detailed.
*Neutral* This setting gave me more snap and air to the sound. All the dense layers could be heard easily. It seemed like there was LESS glare than Soft 1 and 2 but not as glare-free as Soft 3. 

*Into The Future*

*Soft 3* Opening bass notes are just too much fun! This track sounded DEEEEEEP... lacking a little in the crispness of the percussion.
*Soft 2* Nice heft to opening notes. Percussion now has nice attack. 
*Soft 1* Opening notes just as deep but now with some upper harmonic character. Vocal special affects now more noticeable... in fact.. with the other settings I didn't even mention them!
*Neutral* Bass remains awesome but attack is slightly more precise. Special effects MUCH more present than with any of the other settings. Percussion pleasantly crisp.
*
 Joan of Arc*

*Soft 3* Female vocals very smooth. No harsh notes. Male vocals not as gritty as I would like. Nice... but missing excitement overall. I get no anthem feel to this anthem.
*Soft 2* Opening has nice impact and attack. Female vocal more detailed... you can hear some breathiness to her voice. Still smooth though... never harsh. Male voice now has some of the gritty resonance. His pitch inaccuracies are tracked well. Hey...isn' there supposed to be a choir singing in here? Hmm... maybe they didn't show up.
*Soft 1* Nice wind chime is now clearly heard at the very opening of the track. Female vocal gets a little “shouty” when she sings loudly. Male vocal essentially the same as Soft 2. And... wait a second.. the choir just showed up!
*Neutral* “Shoutiness” of the female vocal reduced compared to Soft 1. Slightly bright and sibilant. Male vocals now showing some sibilance also. The instrumental tracks sound very good. Great impact when they enter at 0:54. Much more character to the sustained bass notes. Chorus is all warmed up and signing loudly now!


*Playtronics Break-in
*
*Soft 3* Sounded like I was sitting 30 rows back... not a bad seat, but not up front either. Powerful low toms but hard to localize the snare drum. All the orchestral instruments shad their proper timbre and balance ( for 30 rows back) but I noticed that I had a hard time hearing the entrances. For example, instead of hearing the cellos come in, I would notice that they were playing... but didn't notice them join the party.
*Soft 2* OK... NOW I hear the air and ambiance that was missing from Soft 3. I can hear where the snare is located when it enters at just over a minute in. Bass drum hits also MUCH more noticable at 2:05. All the rest of the orchestra still sounds correct in size and timbre. We are still 25 rows back, but more people left the hall so it is more reverberant.
*Soft 1* Even more ambiance and the snare drummer is now firmly rooted to his spot on stage. This is like 7th row center. You can hear the timbrel changes as the sax line goes “over the break”. Also... something new. When the piano and percussion start there trading of lines at 3:16, you can now hear a bass clarinet is playing along with the percussion. I had never heard that before! Nice!
*Neutral* Well.. this is by _far_ the best sounding of the four options. In every respect... soundstage, timbre, bass response, dynamics, ambiance... you name it. A very musical rendition. This track is so well recorded it scales nicely when you remove the filters. Quite a treat!

*The Chinese Way*

*Soft 3* Wow... this track sounds GREAT! I know the original track is so damn bright that I often turn the volume down. Punchy and fun! I am turning the volume up!
*Soft 2* Still pretty good... with just a little added extra zip in the high end. Still fun!
*Soft 1* Ok... too bright... I knew this would happen!
*Neutral* VERY snappy sounding. This mix is just mastered TOO bright. Still, it is good to hear that the excessive treble is clean and clear with no grain.... then turn the volume down!

*If It Be Your Will*

*Soft 3* Nice deep bass sound... smooth like butter. Guitars are warm but clear.... not really bright and articulated though... I suppose this would bother me more if I were not enjoying the sound so much!
*Soft 2* Better picking sound from the guitars. I also can hear a slight attack from the deep bass notes... not there with Soft 3.
*Soft 1* Guitars now have great picking attacks and the background textural effects are more noticeable. Plucked harnonics have a nice attack and ring to them. 
*Neutral* Essentially an airer version of Soft 1... except the plucked harmonics are SO nice... they pop like bubbles! Very nice indeed!

*Solo Oboe*

*Soft 3* Main thing I notice is a reduction in the key and breath noise I usually hear. The oboe sound essentially correct however since the oboe is almost entirely a midrange instrument. I do miss a few of the articulations and there is a resonance missing from some of the notes.
*Soft 2* Some of the articulations are back and a hint of some of the tonal resonance.
*Soft 1* Now this sounds more like it. Articulations are present and the resonance is very noticeable.
*Neutral* I didn't think this would be very different from Soft 1... but it really is. It seems there is more space around the oboe. It does not seem to be a tonal thing... but a matter of imaging or sound staging... which I would not have expected since these recordings are done with not much acoustic involved. I guess very high frequencies give more spatial cues than I thought they did.
*
 Conclusions*

 I thought I was going to prefer the Moon over the Earth HDAM. In fact I MUCH prefer the Earth over the Moon in the Compass. It is more accurate, more involving and had better impact and bass. Although it does not have the huge soundstage of the Moon, I really never found myself missing it. The Earth had so many sonic things going for it, I never looked back.
 I also expected to HATE the Soft settings. In fact, they were quite nice. For certain recordings I could find myself using any of them. If I had to make a choice, I would choose Neutral and Soft 2 and switch between them... see my recommendations.
 The output level is very generous... too generous actually. Even with the lowest gain setting, I never got much beyond 10 o 'clock with my hard-to-drive K701s. 
 The build quality is just great and the quality of the components is great. Although this was originally designed as a replacement for the Zero, it has gone so much beyond the Zero, it is not worth doing a comparison. I believe the Compass will be compared to units costing in the $500-600 range. 

*Recommendations*

 The areas I would like to see changed are:
 1.Make the lower gain setting standard and add an even lower gain below that one. Kingwa was talking about adding a relay to adjust the gain lower when it is used as a preamp because the high gain setting is too high for preamp use.. Running 2 lower gain settings would eliminate this added complexity.
 2.The current selector switch has 4 positions... but only 3 settings so one position is blank and goes to nowhere. I suggest either getting a 3 position switch or adding a BNC connector as a 4th input.
 3.Rather than add a gain switch externally, add tone a tone switch... 2 position silver push button on the front panel (above the “Super” button) so you can chose your 2 favorite tone settings. I personally never changed the gain setting once I set it to lower... and can't imagine setting it higher because of the flexible power of this amp. However... the tone options are really nice and useful. That I could imagine using often when a recording is mastered too bright ( a common occurrence).
 4.“Super” should say “Bypass”... sorry... I just think Super is not descriptive of the function. It is sort of cool however!
 5.On the INSIDE of the top cover, silk screen all the jumper settings so there is no need to keep a manual handy.
 6.A variable preamp out would be useful for flexibility.


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## les_garten

JoeOboe,
 Nicely done and very informative. Too bad you didn't get the SUN.


 .


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## Sganzerla

Joe, I have the same headphone and probably very different impressions! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Interesting thing is that I have exactly the same counting hours... but have not tried the Soft settings yet, only for a brief moment.
 I'm waiting more 200 hours to give up Earth or neutral setting because of the highs. Mids appear to sound smother now, but not the highs... hope they change. Anything beyond 9 o'clock make my ears bleed, you're crazy!


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## haloxt

Joeoboe,

 Just want to make sure, did you burn in with all 6 jumpers inside?


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## Joeoboe

Yes I burnt in with all jumpers installed and had the Earth burning in in my Zero. I must say that 10 O'clock is LOUD even with the 13 db setting. But I also spent a summer playing guitar in a reggae band in my youth... so that explains a lot!


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## mbd2884

What a great review Joeoboe. And very impressed you've been to stay silent in this thread up until now.

 Your reaction from switching from Moon to Earth was almost identical to mine. When I first got the Compass, I just had to listen to it. Plugged it in and just did flipped through numerous tracks, some classical, new age, trance, electronica (Celldweller/Daft Punk), Orchestral Electronica, full blown orchestra (E.S Posthumus), Nightwish and various rock. Smooth and spacious was what hit me immediately. The soundstage was a lot larger than what I was used to, and took a while to acclimate to it. But like you said for me, there was always something missing. Switched to Earth and it was, finally, this is what I was expecting. And music become more detailed, lot more punch, it was more forward and really played into the AD900s ability to pick up details but that fun lively forward sound.

 Since your reaction was so similar, and believe another Head-Fier said the same thing, I was thinking it might be a good idea to recommend to Kingwa making the Earth default and then let others decide whether they want to purchase a Moon or Sun V2. 

 On your recommendations, I agree with most of them. All my recommendations would have been cosmetic, sound SQ wise I couldn't be happier. For a Mid-Fi, 500 dollar price, I really don't think one could ask for more. If you do, honestly think you would be being greedy and asking more from Kingwa than be acceptable unfair to him.

 Glad you loving your Compass as much as I am. Dammit though, the one album I don't have from Porcupine Tree has the song you used. Darn darn, and I'm not sure another Porcupine Tree album is on my list to get right now.

 Oh for those interested in E.S Posthumus, thinking What is Orchestral Electronica? I made it up, I didn't know how else to describe it.

 Its two brothers, both classical trained pianists. One graduated from UCLA, other worked in the Studio since high school and an incredible producer in his own right. One brother wrote the music for a full blown 80+ peice orchestra, lots of emphasis on violins and some other more exotic instruments I don't know name of. The other brother mastered it with the same precision of a Trance producer (B.T or Hybrid most similar). The bass lines he added to music is again, superb, almost as good as DJ Sasha. But the percussion and violins are just eargasmic with his skills. 

 Album Unearthed: Almost all instrumental. Their music has a very ancient, exotic sound to it. Music will transport you to ancient Celtic Ireland, then among druids of France, watching the destruction of Pompeii and around the globe. Very cinematic sound

 Cartographer is their second album. 

 Description of the inspiration for this album:

  Quote:


 "In 1929, the ancient map "Piri Reis" was discovered in Constantinople. The map is extraordinary because it depicts bays and islands on the Antarctic coast which have been concealed under ice for at least 6,000 years. What civilization was capable of such exploration that long ago? On "Cartographer", we imagine that these explorers were from the tiny island of Numa in the Southern Indian Ocean. As advanced seafarers, they navigated every corner of the Earth. We have created a language unique to them and tell stories through song that describe their creation, discoveries and ultimate demise. This is a 2 CD collection with Vocal and Remix versions of every song. The Remix CD also contains 2 bonus tracks." 
 


 Features incredible vocals. Now this one has a far lighter sound, the first was warm with more emphasis on the bass lines from a producer's touch. The second sounds more instrumental, in fact there is remix album completely instrumental. All their songs feature a woman, Luna Sans, who has an incredible voice. Its perfectly clear, with enough emotions to make even the most stoic person be overcome by the passion in her voice. Great part is the voice does not have the sound of a trained singer, I have no doubt she is. But one of the annoyances of listening to Celine Deion and Sarah Brightman is their voice sounds too controlled and boring. Hers retains the emotions and passion of an amateur singer trying to make it big, impress a potential agent, but with the control and skill of a trained singer. That's how I would describe her. And the fact the songs are all in some language I don't know is even better, I don't know the language itself. I keep guessing its one from the Mediterranean or Southern Europe. Its not Turkish though or Syrian. Greek? Mix of Italian and Latin? Definitely not french, german, spanish, russian or asian, or any of the nordic countries. Maybe the language really is just made up for this album. But before ever reading that description above, I saw images of SouthEast Europe along the Meditteranean which Constantinople would fit. Its just not Turkish though, or any arabic language, far from them. Possibly baltic but not really, but I doesn't sound Indian either, or Asian for that matter. Whatever it is matches the music that accompanies it amazingly well.

 Remix, the remix is all instrumental of the Cartographer album. But the instruments have a huge boost and well been recomposed to replace the singer's voice. A choir has been added, but they are backstage, the orchestra takes front stage on this album.

 I recommend E.S Posthumus to anyone for listening sessions with Compass. It will test the bass extension, be able to distinguish how "real" it sounds from the Orchestra, Luna Sans voice is quite unique from anything I possess in my collection, breathy, passionately, while being powerful. Has some incredible percussion sessions to test its speed, and piano. I always feel Piano is the hardest sound to replicate in headphones and does test Compass to its limits. Good stuff to listen to enjoy and to see what Compass is capable of.

 And for those unhappy with some of the new music coming, the mastering and production on their stuff, well I think its the best of what I have in my collection.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, thanks for the clarification.

 So with the V2 comes the preamp function with RCA connectors. Would the compass have enough power to drive a small set of bookshelf speakers, or would they need something more powerful? I have almost no experience with speakers, so I'm curious as to how much power they require._

 

Unless you find some pretty unusual speakers, or use amplified speakers, the conventional wisdom is that you'll need a power amp for speakers.


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## Pricklely Peete

Great job Joeoboe.....very informative and well written. Thumbs up !

 I agree with you about the Earth OPA .

 Peete.


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## mbd2884

What Double post, where did this come from?


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## Currawong

Great write-up Joeoboe. I agree with your thoughts about the Moon. I wonder if the Moon would be a good match for K701s.


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## Joeoboe

Currawong, I really expected the Moon to match well with my K701s. I was very surprised when I much preferred the Earth. In any case, the Compass is quite nice in any configuration and is flexible enough to set it to sound the way you want. With the Soft 3 setting, it really tilted the balance to being bass heavy which was actually pretty fun to listen to with the 701s... but ultimately the thing I like about the 701s are their midrange clarity so I would only use the Soft 3 setting for poor recordings.
 I jst wanted to say I have been lurking on this site for years now. I really enjoyed your review of the prototype C2C headphone amp... in many ways it was the seed that got all of this Compass stuff started... with your help!


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currawong, I really expected the Moon to match well with my K701s. I was very surprised when I much preferred the Earth. In any case, the Compass is quite nice in any configuration and is flexible enough to set it to sound the way you want. With the Soft 3 setting, it really tilted the balance to being bass heavy which was actually pretty fun to listen to with the 701s... but ultimately the thing I like about the 701s are their midrange clarity so I would only use the Soft 3 setting for poor recordings.
 I jst wanted to say I have been lurking on this site for years now. I really enjoyed your review of the prototype C2C headphone amp... in many ways it was the seed that got all of this Compass stuff started... with your help!_

 


 Hi Joe,
 It seems that the three soft settings are not linear, but three distinct personalities? It does not work like Soft 3 is Softer than Soft 2 and Soft 2 is softer than Soft 1 and Soft 1 if just slightly softer than Neutral? Is that correct?


 .


----------



## Joeoboe

Les... That confused me as well... I understood it WAS supposed to be linear. It may actually be linear in the amount of the VERY high treble that is cut, but as I was listening, I found other colorations occurring that were unexpected. Perhaps when you mess with the spectral balance between highs and lows, your ear can perceive things differently out of band in the midrange.... sort of like the way dithering works. I admit that when I was l was doing the review, it was not all nice and tidy... some things did not quite make sense. BUT I figured I would review it to the best of my ability regardless of the results. I did not want to "fix" results because I knew how it "should" be sounding. I figure, after we get 18 different reviews, some of the anomalies will proved to be just that... anomalies. While others will turn out to be a pattern. This is why I like the idea of 18 seperate methods of review with different music. This may help eliminate preconceived ideas when listening and give everyone a better general idea of what is going on. I would never presume to say my opinion is correct. I would however say it was my considered opinion, which is what we should expect from all of the Compass 18. I look forward to reading future reviews!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Les... That confused me as well... I understood it WAS supposed to be linear. It may actually be linear in the amount of the VERY high treble that is cut, but as I was listening, I found other colorations occurring that were unexpected. Perhaps when you mess with the spectral balance between highs and lows, your ear can perceive things differently out of band in the midrange.... sort of like the way dithering works. I admit that when I was l was doing the review, it was not all nice and tidy... some things did not quite make sense. BUT I figured I would review it to the best of my ability regardless of the results. I did not want to "fix" results because I knew how it "should" be sounding. I figure, after we get 18 different reviews, some of the anomalies will proved to be just that... anomalies. While others will turn out to be a pattern. This is why I like the idea of 18 seperate methods of review with different music. This may help eliminate preconceived ideas when listening and give everyone a better general idea of what is going on. I would never presume to say my opinion is correct. I would however say it was my considered opinion, which is what we should expect from all of the Compass 18. I look forward to reading future reviews!_

 

You have a _distinct_ advantage most of us don't have here. You can listen to your own recording. That would seem to be a great tool for evaluation. You will be able to make a better judgment of what is Neutral, warm, dry, etc. The fact that you will be able to listen to yourself playing your own instrument is invaluable.


 .


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## sandchak

Very nice and well written review, Joeoboe.

 I must say I have had similar experience with Compass, with the moon on I found it very musical, wider sound-stage, but somehow lacking the attack.. back on Earth things sounded more true. I found the moon excel in some music and rather dull on others, while the earth even though it doesn't excel - it does a good job on all types of music.
 I also tried the SUN V2 once, and instantly I realized everything sounded big, big bass, fast attack, although I found the highs to be too bright to my liking - maybe these will tone down as one burns in, but I also heard that replacing the existing caps to Solen does the trick - dont really know if it does, so I have decided to stick to Earth on DAC, till I receive the Sun with Solen Caps.

 All this while I have been listening the Compass through my CDM1 speakers but unfortunately last night my amp blew up, so I have decided to pick up a pair of D2000 or AKG240 Sextettes from ebay and a new amp from Kingwa (!!) - should take at least a couple of weeks to reach me - till then I guess my Compass will be very nicely warmed up and I can share more impressions..

 Thanks again for that review, it was very informative..


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## csroc

What amp did you blow up?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found the moon excel in some music and rather dull on others, while the earth even though it doesn't excel - it does a good job on all types of music._

 

One thing I've read other say and learned myself is that typically the component that wows you initially doesn't win your heart like the one that does everything well but doesn't stand out in any particular way at first. Over time you realize that the one that doesn't stand out is right because it's not exaggerating anything or making itself known. In that way it lets you better enjoy the music and over time you make small realizations from time to time about certain little things it's just doing right, perhaps because it's not mucking around with them. Maybe that other one wowed you because it enhanced something in the music you were listening to when you first listened to both, but just as you described it then becomes less pleasant on other material. 

 I've had the same experience with speakers, and now have found a pair of speakers which didn't give me the "oh wow" dazzle at first and then start to annoy me as the love affair faded. Instead they excel at neutrality and presenting the music as it should be, and that in itself makes me go "oh wow" now, it just takes longer to realize that.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What amp did you blow up?_

 

An old HK amp, long overdue, I think its one of the power-caps got fried.. First I though it was Compass - but that wasn't the case..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I wonder if those 3 settings give entirely different results with the 650's...I guess I'll know soon enough.

 Going by Kingwa's specs for various modes...(posted a few pages back ) the -3db point for S1 is 60 khz, down to 17khz for S3. S2's -3db point is 24khz. That should be a very gentle roll off from say 5khz before the -3db point for each mode. 

 I'm not saying anyone's results are off...it simply could mean the unit hasn't settled yet....as being one plausible possibility for the seemingly at odds behavior. The interaction between OPA voicing might also create some further interesting results...The SUN V2 for instance on S2....the Earth on S1 for really bright cans, the previous for K701's ...certainly opens up a realm of possible permiatations...add in IC based OPA's ...boggles the mind actually. 

 All three start at 5hz (-1db). Something for me to keep in mind tomorrow (er today during the testing ).


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

good analogy csroc.....that pretty much nails the reason why I pick what I pick and prefer neutral. I want the closest rendition of what's on the disc...not the makeup in the electronics that will paint everything with the same colored brush the same way every time...with the Earth module and the irony here is amusing actually, affords me the most variety of sounds possible on the other end of the chain (the cans or speakers).

 It took me a while to get that right after years of tone controls, EQ, this effect, that effect...it wasn't until I chucked them all and went neutral from start to finish did I really realize the potential of the system I now have. It's great on all musical genres now whereas before it was great for Metal but sucked for Classical....pardon the eloquence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Does that make sense ? 

 I'm getting awfully punchy with only 3 hours sleep in the last 48.

 Peete.


----------



## Doorknob

I might have to hold off my 2nd impression at a slightly later date. Writing these things can quite take a lot of time and dedication, along with few other events I hadn't anticipated. 

 On the other note, I just popped in a new Earth that came along with the Compass and switched it with Moon. Its amazing how just an OPA swap changes the sound signature dramatically. In my experiences I've found the Earth to be much more balanced, much more engaging, and bigger soundstage at the first hearing. It might be that the Earth just has better synergy with my cans then the Moons does. However I favor slightly stronger midrange and am looking forward to the Sun as my next Audio-gd purchase.

 My impression will still be done with Moon as the OPA though as that's the one properly burned in.


----------



## csroc

Agreed Peete. The Compass with the Earth HDAM seems to be delivering exactly what I want in order to achieve the performance and neutrality I expect.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

That's fine Doorknob, do what you can when you can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





....

 Your right, it is an awful lot of work to do one of these....makes me appreciate Skylab and Penchum even more for all their contributions to date.

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One thing I've read other say and learned myself is that typically the component that wows you initially doesn't win your heart like the one that does everything well but doesn't stand out in any particular way at first. Over time you realize that the one that doesn't stand out is right because it's not exaggerating anything or making itself known. In that way it lets you better enjoy the music and over time you make small realizations from time to time about certain little things it's just doing right, perhaps because it's not mucking around with them. Maybe that other one wowed you because it enhanced something in the music you were listening to when you first listened to both, but just as you described it then becomes less pleasant on other material. 

 I've had the same experience with speakers, and now have found a pair of speakers which didn't give me the "oh wow" dazzle at first and then start to annoy me as the love affair faded. Instead they excel at neutrality and presenting the music as it should be, and that in itself makes me go "oh wow" now, it just takes longer to realize that._

 

Thank you Csroc, wise words that should be made a 'sticky'. You see this happening again and again on the forums. Particularly with regard to headphones. For example, (and I hope the horse isn't dead yet) there's so many people raving about the DT880's...and then selling them two months later. (Plenty of other examples too.)

 I actually think it would be wise for most people to wait at least six months before they review any newly bought gear. (Ok, not realistic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) I've seen people being deliriously happy with their newly bought expensive dynamic gear one day, and switch completely to Stax the next. Well, at the very least it would be a good policy to update any big review anyone does at 3 month intervals, giving some more info on their 'developing relationship'.

 On this note, some more first impressions of the Sun. I decided to test it a little more, but this time with my AKG's and some Bach cantatas (small scale choral/orchestral with soloists) and here you really get an impression of the problems with Sun. Yes, you still get that clarity, but it comes at a cost, because you feel like every soloist and instrumental group is basically singing or playing in their own isolated recording booth. Completely unnatural, though interesting to hear. Switching back to the Earth is like settling in your old comfy chair again. This is a good example of the component that just 'does everything right'.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also heard that replacing the existing caps to Solen does the trick - dont really know if it does, so I have decided to stick to Earth on DAC, till I receive the Sun with Solen Caps._

 

Can you elaborate on this, and possibly explain in detail how to do this? Picture would be great even if its used in MS Paint. What caps are you replacing with the Solen?

http://www.solen.ca/pub/cms_nf_catal...lvbj0zJmZ0PW5m

 Which Solen Caps to replace which caps in the Compass? If you mean the large RX11s (NOVER), be interesting since I noticed they seem to be the same Capacitors Kingwa uses in his DAC8.

 Are you replacing the RX11s or the little ones or all? And sorry if it seems I'm grilling you I'm not, but where did you hear about replacing with Solen Caps, I'd like to read it also. Especially interesting since Kingwa says the NOVER Capacitors are custom ordered.

 Thanks


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which Solen Caps to replace which caps in the Compass? If you mean the large RX11s (NOVER), be interesting since I noticed they seem to be the same Capacitors Kingwa uses in his DAC8._

 

I think he meant replacing the caps on the Sun, not the Compass. (Unless _I_ misunderstood.)


----------



## mbd2884

Oh yeah, reading it over carefully sounds like he ordered another Sun V2 with Solen Caps. Kingwa does custom work like that? Hmm hopefully Sandchak replies soon, hehe, now I'm really curious. His website says the OPAs use Evox Capacitors.

 Sidenote, what's the difference between single and Dual OPAs? And they cannot be used interchangeably right?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh my, that would take a lot of skill there. Yeah beyond what I want to attempt._

 

Well, they're on the outside of the unit, those white square things on both sides. (Unless I'm completely mistaken, it's scary talking about something you hardly know anything about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) Replacing them is probably not that easy, but perfectly doable for someone with the equipment and a little experience.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh yeah, reading it over carefully sounds like he ordered another Sun V2 with Solen Caps. Kingwa does custom work like that? Hmm hopefully Sandchak replies soon, hehe, now I'm really curious._

 

Talk about the devil and I am here!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. Yes mbd, I have ordered one from Kingwa and it should come with the amp I am ordering too.. far beyond my abilities to do that upgrade, and yes, it was his suggestion that it might help to make the Sun less bright..

 EDIT . Well more info if you want to try the replacement yourself.. replace with 0.1U to 1 U Solen caps the two existing 684 on the SUN OPA, and since HP amp of the Compass is Neutral you can make out (audibly) any changes made on the DAC section..


----------



## mbd2884

Which amp did you order? I'm guessing to replace the HK, (Harman Kardon?) Amp that blew up?
 - Haven't heard Harman Kardon name mentioned in a very long time, remember few years ago they were all the rage among my friends, although mostly cause I think the cars they liked featured them, lol. Among my family Denon seem to be the choice, cept my aunt who has Bang and Olfsen custom house system. She spent 10,000 on it, and sounds like complete garbage, I think she has by far the worse sounding system and paid the most. Rest of family went with Denon+custom speakers. I went on tangent there cause everytime I go over I have to listen to these famed Bang and Olfsen and each time floored by how much they suck, all treble and nothing else. 

 I've decided to leave the padding on the underside of the cover. Those OPAs sit way too loosely for my comfort to remove the padding. Are HDAM/OPA normally that loose?

 Got news my power cord should be here probably Monday or Tuesday. Be interesting to see if I notice differences as Sandchak had. Hopefully the plugs arrive today and see if Furutech deserve praise they get.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've decided to leave the padding on the underside of the cover. Those OPAs sit way too loosely for my comfort to remove the padding. Are HDAM/OPA normally that loose?_

 

It should be fine if the unit is just sitting on your desk or similar. Are you using it as a portable? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think the opamp-socket was designed with IC opamps in mind, and those are a LOT smaller.

 EDIT: Bang & Olufsen is meant to be looked at, not listened to.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT: Bang & Olufsen is meant to be looked at, not listened to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, its the predescor to the Beosound9000, with home integration (as cool as it sounds, its hardly impressive honestly, unless you are paraplegic) and in wall speakers. Everytime I look at the speakers, I just wonder what my aunt was thinking and she had consultants or whatever you want to call them from B&O design the custom system for her. B&O is correct, they completely smell horrific.
BeoSound 9000 - Bang & Olufsen


----------



## juswyq

Anyone done a straight-up comparison between the compass and the frankenzero? I killed my zero while trying to mod it, so now I can't decide whether to buy another zero and mod it, or get the compass, which costs two times of the zero.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *juswyq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone done a straight-up comparison between the compass and the frankenzero? I killed my zero while trying to mod it, so now I can't decide whether to buy another zero and mod it, or get the compass, which costs two times of the zero._

 

Pricklely Peete is both the proud father of the whole FrankenZero project and the godfather of the Compass-project. I think you can rest assured that the two units will be reviewed and compared by him. Just wait a little for full burn-in and until Peete's flu has cleared.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which amp did you order? I'm guessing to replace the HK, (Harman Kardon?) Amp that blew up?
 - Haven't heard Harman Kardon name mentioned in a very long time, remember few years ago they were all the rage among my friends, although mostly cause I think the cars they liked featured them, lol. Among my family Denon seem to be the choice, cept my aunt who has Bang and Olfsen custom house system. She spent 10,000 on it, and sounds like complete garbage, I think she has by far the worse sounding system and paid the most. Rest of family went with Denon+custom speakers. I went on tangent there cause everytime I go over I have to listen to these famed Bang and Olfsen and each time floored by how much they suck, all treble and nothing else. 

 I've decided to leave the padding on the underside of the cover. Those OPAs sit way too loosely for my comfort to remove the padding. Are HDAM/OPA normally that loose?_

 

Yes, Harman Kardon amps were really good once upon a time, till they became a big Company acquiring Infinity, JBL etc.. they were known for their excellent driving power, but these days they only make home theater stuffs..

 I am in a little undecided which amp to buy from kingwa, I have basically shortlisted to two:

 1) CIA350 Integrated amp (now only available in China) and one notch below the CIA400 (International model) - ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 2) There is a power amp he is coming out in March End, Compass size, slightly bigger in depth and height, in this case I can buy two and biamp my speakers..

 It will both cost me the same, as shipping CIA itself will make a big hole in my pocket (USD 500).. !!.

 Really I should decide within a week, but I am more inclined to the new power amp coming out in March..


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *juswyq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone done a straight-up comparison between the compass and the frankenzero? I killed my zero while trying to mod it, so now I can't decide whether to buy another zero and mod it, or get the compass, which costs two times of the zero._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Audio-gd Compass Prototype Review*
 Although this was originally designed as a replacement for the Zero, it has gone so much beyond the Zero, it is not worth doing a comparison. I believe the Compass will be compared to units costing in the $500-600 range. _

 

Does that answer your question?

 Peete said, if you got the money to upgrade to Compass do so, as Zero can't keep up. But said a modded Zero is still the cheapest way to get decent sound. So if you can't afford the Compass, a modded Zero is the way to go then. If you can afford the Compass, get the Compass.

 I think if you sit down and compare the Zero aside from the SQ differences, just looking at the parts used, the stringent quality control, workmanship, and power supply, that the 258$ is almost literally a steal. But the Compass value is 4X that of the Zero, its only the promotional pricing that is double, you have to take that into account when you are deciding. When you compare your Zero, keep in mind you are comparing to a product at close to the 400-500 USD mark, and JoeOboe estimated Compass able to match performance of 500-600 products, likely won't be alone in this estimation. Although wait until Peete is able to put his thoughts into words then decide, wouldn't jump the gun too fast, got a little bit of time, guessing a little over a month after he announces the Compass Upgraded Version. Would be really disappointing that by the time you decide, Compass is no longer within your means or initial budget you had saved up.

 Also have to consider, is it worth it to risk destroying a second Zero which has no warranty, or customer service for that matter? Thanks to K3cT for verifying this statement.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currawong, I really expected the Moon to match well with my K701s. I was very surprised when I much preferred the Earth. In any case, the Compass is quite nice in any configuration and is flexible enough to set it to sound the way you want. With the Soft 3 setting, it really tilted the balance to being bass heavy which was actually pretty fun to listen to with the 701s... but ultimately the thing I like about the 701s are their midrange clarity so I would only use the Soft 3 setting for poor recordings.
 I jst wanted to say I have been lurking on this site for years now. I really enjoyed your review of the prototype C2C headphone amp... in many ways it was the seed that got all of this Compass stuff started... with your help!_

 

That's quite interesting. I'm not sure what the cause is, but I found K701s far too mid-forward for me, and switched to Denons. Now I'm having a period where I'm prefering my KD-600s and not liking my Denons, so maybe things are going the other way. Partly this is because I have been listening to a lot of jazz recently.

 The C2C I reviewed, by the way, wasn't a prototype. Since Kingwa has sorted out a good case for the Compass, he updated the case for the C2C as well.


----------



## sandchak

what a nice coincidence! Curra starts the 100th page of Compass thread..


----------



## Hottuna_

Sure has come a long way.
 Just waiting to pull the trigger when the final version is released.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also have to consider, is it worth it to risk destroying a second Zero which has no warranty, or customer service for that matter?_

 

I would avoid a blanket statement like this. Wsz304, the Ebay vendor for Zero, has very good customer support as reported by Head-fiers here. So does Jaben if you get the Zero from them.

 mbd2884, you seriously need to stop your love of Compass from clouding your judgment. Just a friendly advice, mate. We wouldn't want people calling you a 'shill' would we?


----------



## mbd2884

Yes I'm totally a shill, cause I work for a Non-Profit providing service for foster children and families. Yeah my connections to the Audio industry is far reaching as a poor college student. Also my statement on lack of Zero customer service is not based on my clouded perception of the Compass, its based on the most massive thread full of complaints over Zero's lack of customer service or quality control and well Zero destroying someone's Sennheiser which he received no compensation for.

 My statement is correct. Zero is not made by Wsz304 or any of the Ebay vendors you mentioned. There is no customer service that has been found or noted for the Zero, whoever that manufactures it.

 When my Asus needed repair, did I send it to XoticPC for repair, the vendor? Nope sent it to Asus. Its Asus customer service, the manufacturer I care about most. What a concept.

 So yes my blanket statement for now remains true, unless you can prove otherwise. 

 And wrong on your part. Head-Fiers noted that when a problem arose with their Zero, even notable Ebay vendors mysteriously stopped responding.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah word of mouth is probably the best. If you have a look at wsz0304's ratings it seems that even he has been caught out with a dodgy upgraded Zero DAC which he got negative feedback on - theres something going wrong somewhere in the chain, although wsz0304 has told me that he doesn't do any of the modding himself_

 

You meant that Wsz0304 right? Yeah he didn't do the modding, but he still sold a crappy modded Zero which is now reflected in his ratings. Now that's what I call Customer Service! Selling faulty equipment...selling equipment he couldn't verify its integrity... VERY impressive.

 Lastly I still ask, is it worth risking destroying your Zero a second time. Cause if you add it up, after buying a second Zero and modding it you will have spent more than the Compass price. And if anything goes wrong, you'll likely have to spend more money out of your pocket to be shipped back, repaired, and the hassle of dealing with vague unknown Ebay vendors...


----------



## K3cT

Your statement is incorrect because it implies that ALL Zeroes sold through the various channels have zero customer service which is simply not true. 

 And your analogy is also incorrect in this case because you don't send the Zero back to Tianyun when you have problems with them. You send them back to whatever vendor you bought them from. And saying that I should not care about the customer support of my chosen vendor just because they are not the manufacturer is just plain absurd.


----------



## sandchak

There is no doubt that ZERO has QC issues, and that is precisely why this thread was initiated. I myself experienced the good services of seller WSZ0304, my ZERO came with damaged DAC section and he replaced the boards, including the HP section free of Cost (although I had to pay the return ship), But that does not take away the fact that ZERO does have QC problems.

 As far as expressing ones excitement of disappointment with a product, I believe everyone has the right to express, and extend full support to a manufacturer who he feels has come up with a nice product for him.. The word "shill" is pretty serious allegation, although its been used very often out here.

 Its against the rules of Head-Fi to shill, so it better be left to the Mods to decide on that.

 I really don't understand why a person cant speak good about what he personally finds good, or what he finds otherwise on this forum??.. and in any case someone who buys a compass or zero will not buy on a particular persons perceptions, it will be his own decision based on what majority thinks..


----------



## K3cT

I see that you edited your post while I was typing my response. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wsz304* 
_You meant that Wsz0304 right? Yeah he didn't do the modding, but he still sold a crappy modded Zero which is now reflected in his ratings. Now that's what I call Customer Service! Selling faulty equipment...selling equipment he couldn't verify its integrity... impressive._

 

Right. I'm sure using such a vague evidence is helping your case. and not to mention that it's an isolated case too. ***, whoever you quoted even used the word *it seems*.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really don't understand why a person cant speak good about what he personally finds good, or what he finds otherwise on this forum??.. and in any case someone who buys a compass or zero will not buy on a particular persons perceptions, it will be his own decision based on what majority thinks.._

 

I don't mind that but I value objectivity. I'm sure other will appreciate it too to make an informed decision. 

 And for the record, this is not the first time mbd2884 is acting like this. Just see his confrontation with haloxt a few pages back here.


----------



## mbd2884

Yep it totally does help my case, blazingly well. Good customer service, sorry I cannot sell you that product as I cannot verify its integrity. May I suggest this, which I can verify. That's customer service, assuring the customer gets the product for the value they purchase. Selling a brick to someone is not vague at all, that's pretty damn specific case of horrific customer service. Do you have any idea who these eBay vendors are? Nope, they are as vague as I am about my identity on this forum. And if you have issue with them, who you going to turn to next? Paypal? Pain in the ass that route.

 Again, Sandchak verified this guy you and him now both said good customer service. He sold a brick, which he failed to verify. So instead of having a happy quick transaction, package arrives. Happy, plug it in. Oops its a brick. Now have to deal with eBay vendor to resolve issues, wait longer to use your product. Impressive customer service. Last I remembered selling bricks is serious issue when it comes to the integrity of a vendor.

 And your statement about Ebay vendor customer service is still bullcrap. They don't make or repair the Zeros. So all you got is hassling with them, have to deal with shipping costs and whatever other headaches. It does matter when there is customer service from a manufacturer. You want something done right, you get it fixed and repaired by whoever knows the product best, the manufacturer. Who could care less about vague mystery eBay vendors other than getting something cheap and on time. When a manufacturer has good customer service, the vendor you bought the product from in my experience will say, best solution is to contact the manufacturer. Hmm wonder why they would say that. Manufacturer, their image and reputation is at stake. Will usually pay for the shipping and repair (when its their fault), service done in appropriate amount of time. What you got with your argument, what have you got to argue against that when it comes to Zero's customer service? A vague eBay vendor who sells bricks he can't verify. I am overwhelmed.

 And haloxt deserved it as such, considering you are doing exactly what he did, reading far more into what I posted. I don't regret how I responded to haloxt, I don't take false accusations kindly.

 So far you have taken my posting out of context. Implied I could be called a shill, and then implying somehow haloxt was a victim when he was the one throwing false accusations when his initial reply was pretty damn negative and insulting to begin with. But please go back and notice that my responses were with good arguements, did not resort to making false accusations about him, calling him names or being immature. Have I questioned your integrity, insulted you or make false accusations about you? Nope, interesting yet I am the one who is being portrayed in negative light. That wasn't friendly advice at all, it was false accusation with serious implications.


----------



## Drosera

Wouldn't it be nice if we aimed our critical faculties somewhat more toward the equipment and less towards each other?

 Just a thought.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wouldn't it be nice if we aimed our critical faculties somewhat more toward the equipment and less towards each other?

 Just a thought._

 

Been noted for such things, maybe if they want to throw a false accusation my way, p.m it to me. So others don't have deal with crud. My direct responses should not be cause for being attacked or insulted, or falsely accused, that and the post K3ct decided to attack, I thought I was being very friendly and informative and gave juswyq some other things to consider when making his decision. My response was not from my own enthusiasm but from Oboe, and Peetes impression from this thread. The numbers and prices were real, didn't fabricate those numbers, nor were they my opinions, just numbers and prices.


----------



## K3cT

Ok, this will be my last post on this subject matter. If you want to take this matter further, feel free to pm me. 

  Quote:


 Yep it totally does help my case, blazingly well. Good customer service, sorry I cannot sell you that product as I cannot verify its integrity. May I suggest this, which I can verify. That's customer service, assuring the customer gets the product for the value they purchase. Selling a brick to someone is not vague at all, that's pretty damn specific case of horrific customer service. Do you have any idea who these eBay vendors are? Nope, they are as vague as I am about my identity on this forum. And if you have issue with them, who you going to turn to next? Paypal? Pain in the ass that route. 
 

Sorry. Your argument is just moot because the person you quoted is not even sure of his claim. Do read my post please.

  Quote:


 Again, Sandchak verified this guy you and him now both said good customer service. He sold a brick, which he failed to verify. So instead of having a happy quick transaction, package arrives. Happy, plug it in. Oops its a brick. Now have to deal with eBay vendor to resolve issues, wait longer to use your product. Impressive customer service. Last I remembered selling bricks is serious issue when it comes to the integrity of a vendor. 
 

The vendor in question is more than willing to send you a FREE unit in exchange of the broken one. What the hell do you expect?

  Quote:


 And your statement about Ebay vendor customer service is still bullcrap. They don't make or repair the Zeros. So all you got is hassling with them, have to deal with shipping costs and whatever other headaches. It does matter when there is customer service from a manufacturer. You want something done right, you get it fixed and repaired by whoever knows the product best, the manufacturer. Who could care less about vague mystery eBay vendors other than getting something cheap and on time. When a manufacturer has good customer service, the vendor you bought the product from in my experience will say, best solution is to contact the manufacturer. Hmm wonder why they would say that. Manufacturer, their image and reputation is at stake. Will usually pay for the shipping and repair (when its their fault), service done in appropriate amount of time. What you got with your argument, what have you got to argue against that when it comes to Zero's customer service? A vague eBay vendor who sells bricks he can't verify. I am overwhelmed. 
 

Your statement is moot because Tianyun does not deal directly with us and we have no idea about how they deal with broken Zeroes over there in mainland China. So, the only measure of customer service we can expect is the vendor itself. You keep saying that wsz304 is a "vague" vendor where in fact, many of Head-Fiers here bought their perfectly functioning units from him. This is just ridiculous IMO. 

  Quote:


 And haloxt deserved it as such, considering you are doing exactly what he did, reading far more into what I posted. I don't regret how I responded to haloxt, I don't take false accusations kindly. 
 

No offense, but stating is that one get a free Graham Slee Novo with the purchase of Compass just because both amps are discrete in design is just asking to be attacked. He might come off as condescending but the problem can be avoided if you would put more thought into your post there.

  Quote:


 So far you have taken my posting out of context. Implied I could be called a shill, and then implying somehow haloxt was a victim when he was the one throwing false accusations when his initial reply was pretty damn negative and insulting to begin with. But please go back and notice that my responses were with good arguements, did not resort to making false accusations about him, calling him names or being immature. Have I questioned your integrity, insulted you or make false accusations about you? Nope, interesting yet I am the one who is being portrayed in negative light. That wasn't friendly advice at all, it was false accusation with serious implications. 
 

I'm not taking your post out of context. You started it all by stating that ALL Zeroes have bad customer service which is a blanket statement no matter how you twist your words around it. And I do apologize if you took offense to my shill statement. Frankly, if one does not know you from this thread, it's easy to mistake you as one considering how ecstatic you can sound with the Compass. Just take a look at that thread by ScottieB for instance.


----------



## csroc

sheesh


----------



## senn_liu

here's an idea: how about those of us active in this thread chip in some money to get gifts for certain individuals' upcoming 12th birthday?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_here's an idea: how about those of us active in this thread chip in some money to get gifts for certain individuals' upcoming 12th birthday? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 










 .


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_O
 Your statement is moot because Tianyun does not deal directly with us and we have no idea about how they deal with broken Zeroes over there in mainland China. So, the only measure of customer service we can expect is the vendor itself. You keep saying that wsz304 is a "vague" vendor where in fact, many of Head-Fiers here bought their perfectly functioning units from him. This is just ridiculous IMO._

 

My statement isn't moot, in fact you proved my statement without a doubt. There is ZERO customer support for the Zero. You can get customer service for the crappy service you receive from a eBay vendor, but not for your Zero. He can't do anything but send you a new one since he sold you a brick which is the definition of a horrific customer service to begin with. Your eBay vendor is not an authorized repair center or has any clue about the product. If he did, he wouldn't sell you a brick, or maybe another, maybe he just doesn't care. Another point to crappy customer service. So yeah, what you just typed DEFINITIVELY without a shadow of a doubt proves Zero has no customer support. Support from a vague eBay vendor for his crummy service and purchase transaction is not the same as customer support for the Zero. Yes and the number of people he has sold bricks to makes his identity well known. Whatever, do you even think before posting?

 If haloxt and yourself read my post I did in fact put thought into. It states why I mentioned the Novo, its clearly stated for anyone with reading comprehension to understand. There was no reason for haloxt to reply the way he did, as it was not an antogonistic post, nor was it a comparison of the Compass to Novo, nor was I saying either one was superior to the other, but was just an enthusiastic agreement with previous poster. Yeah that is deserving of ripping into my post with an insult. If he didn't like how it was phrased, he could have easily posted or sent a p.m asking me to rephrase it, not insulting me or making accusations. 

 If you read the ScottieB thread and learn some reading comprehension that he also understood why I made those posts. He was basing his decision on incorrect and wrong assumptions. In the end we ended up P.Ming each other a few times and it civil and understanding. He didn't have a problem with it, nor did I, but you did. Tells a little about you, K3cT doesn't it. You have no interest in whether I am providing useful information, providing an alternative or option for him to consider, I mean, so sorry I would do so when he asked for suggestions. 

 And of course you nitpick on my one line about the Zero with no customer service, which you have now *verified* yourself, my amusement is now at an all time high for the week on that one, on a post where I helped *juswyq *get an idea of what the current impression of the Zero, modded Zero to the Compass was, and sentiment of others who own both. As it is a 100 page thread, and quite long to read through. I thought I did him a service since I have read every page and know where these postings are. But no, I'm a shill, my judgment is clouded and total dick for trying to be helpful. If anything you are the odd one for supporting and saying how wonderful a eBay vendor is for selling faulty, useless, bricked Zeros to this customers. If juswyq has a problem with my reply, I would gladly listen to him, and understand why he had such a problem.

 ROFLMAO

 But honestly if you got problems with how I phrase stuff, don't send a false unfounded accusation my way, imply I'm a shill or for that matter just send an FYI p.m. If you seen other posts of mine, what do you expect?

 I am sincerely apologetic for the other posters who had to see my replies to K3cT accusations and implications. Please ignore them as they were directed solely at him and no one else, or just read em if for whatever reason you enjoy these walls of text. csroc you think 80% of the problem is me, ok. I don't understand that as my walls of text only appear after someone rips into my posting unprovoked. I don't see where in my advice, contributions, suggestions are deserving of being insulted, false accusations or implications of being a shill. But whatever, for a while I was having a great time going back and forth with Sandchak and Drosera there.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


 Tells a little about you doesn't it. 
 

 Quote:


 ROFLMAO 
 







 EDIT 1: I refuse to argue further with you if you cannot see that this:  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* 
_Also have to consider, is it worth it to risk destroying a second Zero which has no warranty, or customer service for that matter?_

 

 is a blanket statement which comes back to my original post.

 EDIT 2: It's really amusing to see you launch such a dramatic tirade against me when I merely suggested that you should stop making sweeping statements like that and stop sounding like audio-gd's personal marketer or something (I avoided the use of S word here because it seems that you're to sensitive to that). You might not have the intention but often your wording suggested otherwise.


----------



## csroc

I've refrained from saying much but mbd you're 80% of the problem when these stupid arguments start. Stop being so snarky.


----------



## les_garten

http://www.turbonet.biz/misc/Valium.wma




 .


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've refrained from saying much but mbd you're 80% of the problem when these stupid arguments start. Stop being so snarky._

 

Agreed. I've been close to reporting his posts a number of times. It's a pretty nasty scar on an otherwise nice thread. I can't take many more "walls" of illogical overreaction.


----------



## GoHoos

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_here's an idea: how about those of us active in this thread chip in some money to get gifts for certain individuals' upcoming 12th birthday? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL!


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed. I've been close to reporting his posts a number of times. It's a pretty nasty scar on an otherwise nice thread. I can't take many more "walls" of illogical overreaction._

 

Same here. Talk about annoying.


----------



## sandchak

Well, I think its a little unfair to say mbd can be called a shill, or that he has been 80% of the problem when such arguments start.

 First of all mbd is mostly correct, when he says that ZERO does have QC and warranty issues, yes its true that there are exceptions like WSZ0304 who are kind enough to replace defective parts or machine all together, but at least in my case, I ended paying more for a working ZERO than I was supposed to, plus the delay it caused, yes it is good service but then it comes with hassles, in the end instead of feeling happy, I do feel relieved..

 I Personally feel its very difficult to evaluate a piece of audio gear objectively, its always subjective to many factors, personal taste and preferences, the mood you are in when you are evaluating the gear - I personally have realized a particular song enjoyable most of the time, but sometimes I don't like it. Also it is proven scientifically that perception of sound changes with race/region and age.. maybe thats the reason why all of don't prefer the same music, same hardware or same headphones..

 I feel the best part of forums is that we can share our views freely, not all of us are experts or audiophiles, not all are born with golden ears, but if you are then very good for you, because most of us are basically enthusiasts..

 Finally, if everyone has to think about whether he will be called a shill or some kind of jerk before he wants to share anything - then I guess it takes the life out of the forum, this is peoples forum and not something like a experts and critics exclusive club, and I really feel one should refrain from passing judgments on others..

 PS.. I thought for 30 mins before finally posting this, I know the majority of people are now going go after what I said.. but I really dont care, its been happening from day one in this thread at least.. I think I should stand by a fellow member who hasn't said anything by which people might call him a shill..


----------



## haloxt

Think of this as intermission while the anxiously awaited reviews are about to be released.


----------



## Drosera

Ok, a few more words then:

 I concur with Sandchak, don't start blaming mbd2884 for all, or even 80% of this. Some people might consider not overreacting (or not reacting at all). Restraint is a virtue. But time and again there seems to start a pattern of two parties simply 'feeding each other'. And time and again I'm justing waiting in vain for one of the parties to have the wisdom not to respond.

 I wouldn't be so worried about this if this wasn't a 'special thread', in a way. Many people, among whom Kingwa, are following this thread, waiting to hear our opinions. Our behaviour here reflects strongly on our authority as reviewers. Please keep that in mind.


----------



## les_garten




----------



## K3cT

My apologies everyone for another derailment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's just that I highly value objectivity and I just cannot stay still when I see it being trampled upon.


----------



## csroc

Sandchak the problem usually isn't what he says but how he says it.


----------



## haloxt

How do you guys hear audio on the internet while using compass usb? I got wmp (asio too, but limited to 44.1khz sampling) working but not quicktime and whatever youtube uses.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My apologies everyone for another derailment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's just that I highly value objectivity and I just cannot stay still when I see it being trampled upon._

 

Nggak apa, K3cT. But maybe objectivity is too much too ask from people who just bought a new piece of equipment. And some of us are so happy with it that we want to tell the whole world about it.


----------



## cswann1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sandchak the problem usually isn't what he says but how he says it._

 

I have to agree with this statement. Your point is best communicated as simply and succinctly as possible.

 But....that tirade sure was entertaining


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sandchak the problem usually isn't what he says but how he says it._

 

I agree with you Crosc, I also personally felt mbd is quite abrupt, sometimes sounding harsh and at times even sounded like he was ridiculing someone, but then we communicate here regularly in nearly daily basis, and it’s very easy to notice his intentions are as good as anyone out here, he has always been helpful and if I am not mistaken he even volunteered to send his compass to SKYLAB for review – even I wouldn’t do so.. I mean every individual is different and we try our best to follow good behaviour.

 But when something like the word “shill” is dropped, it’s a different ball game; again in this case it depends on individuals, some individuals value objectivity, some value integrity – so I don’t blame mbd going all out on offensive even to such an extent that it sounds childish, absurd or ridiculous.

 Take for example my case, when I look back I find my reactions very childish, or even look at Les’s case, he was asked if he was associated with Audio GD in a PM in a different thread and he pasted his reply even on this thread – maybe the reason he removed the reference one from his signature was because of this, what I mean to say is that it can be a very sensitive issue..


 Anyway, these are just my thoughts really..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nggak apa, K3cT. But maybe objectivity is too much too ask from people who just bought a new piece of equipment. And some of us are so happy with it that we want to tell the whole world about it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

There is a difference between Subjectivity, Objectivity and being Obnoxious. The whole challenge of these forums is how to Objectify something that is subjective. If we could keep it totally subjective, we could buy based on Chipset, Tubeset, or Graph. This doesn't work though. 

 I don't want to belabor previous posts. But the Poster in question was called a Shill in another un-related thread for doing some of the same stuff(see the ScottieB thread that was mentioned). He was accused of being an Audio-GD Shill.

 It is at this point that the person should look n the mirror and say, why is someone accusing me of this. How am I coming across? What message do I "think" I am sending? What message is being received and how do they differ? If a different message is being received from the one you thought you sent, should you attack the receiver?

 Do I think there are shills in these forums, yes I do. Do I think some of the posters here called out to be exhibiting shill-like posts are shills, NO. I do think they are not objective, and are over zealous. Pushy even. I think they are Honestly OVER EXCITED. At least I hope this is the case. If these guys were shills working for me, I would fire them and tell them to ****!! I think the dangerous shills are the one's who are smart enough not to act like shills. If these guys are Shills, they're not very good at it.


 **I removed the REF 1 from my Sig because I ran out of Sig lines! If they give me one more line, I'll put it back.
 .


----------



## mbd2884

Oh update on that Skylab, he thanks all of you for requesting his reviews, your respect for his opinions. But it seems he has a number of tube amps that will be taking all his time. Headphone Addict like his reviews, but personally I trust Peete's, Curra's and well frankly pretty much all of your impressions. We are dealing with Mid-Fi S/S, don't think requires one to have experience 2000+ dollar amps, DACs to be able to give a good review of the Compass for others. Already we know from a few people the power cord upgrade has had noticable difference among those who ordered them. Curra said the Compass was of quality enough he could hear the difference in the cables/IC's used. So far so good. Good review of the Soft1, 2, 3, and Neutral Settings. Preliminary assessment of all three OpAmps. 

 Also for those that didn't know, Curra has been editing the opening post that posts links to the reviews listed above.


----------



## Joeoboe

First I would like to thank everyone for the kind words about my review. It was lots of work... but fun work! I want to thank mbd2884 for the recommendation of E.S. Posthumus. Cool stuff... I just went to their website to give a quick listen. I will be ordering a couple cds soon!
 To continue the discussion with Peete and Currawong ( and all else following the discussion) I suspect that the Compass will continue to settle in more as it burns in for a few months. There seems to be a general opinion the Audio-gd gear takes a LONG time to fully burn in. I will post improvements as I note them, but for the next month, I will run the Compass with the Earth installed and Soft 3 to fully burn in all the caps in the filter network of the headphone amp. Although the Soft 3 setting was a bit too soft, it was actually still VERY musical and fun to listen to. So... I plan on doing a long term "life with Soft 3" experience. I am actually looking forward to it. I think there are many older mid 80's recording that will be much more listenable with some filtering. So... I plan on donning my best "Flock of Seagulls" wig and taking a journey back in time...25 years or so!
 I'll let you know how it goes!


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But when something like the word “shill” is dropped, it’s a different ball game; again in this case it depends on individuals, some individuals value objectivity, some value integrity – so I don’t blame mbd going all out on offensive even to such an extent that it sounds childish, absurd or ridiculous._

 

For the record, I never call him one. I just implied that he should stop sounding like one when he talk about audio-gd products because like I stated in my edited post, his intention can be easily misinterpreted with the way he worded his statements.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First I would like to thank everyone for the kind words about my review. It was lots of work... but fun work! I want to thank mbd2884 for the recommendation of E.S. Posthumus. Cool stuff... I just went to their website to give a quick listen. I will be ordering a couple cds soon!
 To continue the discussion with Peete and Currawong ( and all else following the discussion) I suspect that the Compass will continue to settle in more as it burns in for a few months. There seems to be a general opinion the Audio-gd gear takes a LONG time to fully burn in. I will post improvements as I note them, but for the next month, I will run the Compass with the Earth installed and Soft 3 to fully burn in all the caps in the filter network of the headphone amp. Although the Soft 3 setting was a bit too soft, it was actually still VERY musical and fun to listen to. So... I plan on doing a long term "life with Soft 3" experience. I am actually looking forward to it. I think there are many older mid 80's recording that will be much more listenable with some filtering. So... I plan on donning my best "Flock of Seagulls" wig and taking a journey back in time...25 years or so!
 I'll let you know how it goes!_

 

Hi,
 Are you doing the Soft 3 position for a long time because you want to leave all the Jumpers in for a long time, or you just are starting to like it?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the record, I never call him one. I just implied that he should stop sounding like one when he talk about audio-gd products because like I stated in my edited post, his intention can be easily misinterpreted with the way he worded his statements._

 


 That's how I interpreted your post because of the Emoticon you used when you said it in your post. I felt it was a "friendly" observation.

 Then the Baseball Batz were busted out...



 .


----------



## csroc

I like the suggestion you made Joeoboe for a switch to adjust the tone. While I don't want to see this mean the gain switch is eliminated, if there was a switch to let you change easily between two of the tone settings it would be very nice for quick adjustments when listening to certain albums.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Damn it Les...there you go making sense again.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 The Zero thing has me a little sad really....on the one hand when modified it's a unit without equal (where price AND SQ is concerned) but on the other hand it has issues (at times) that are being *fully* looked after by responsible vendors. I've never actually came out and said I wouldn't buy a Zero. I just wouldn't buy one from a certain vendor (who shall remain nameless but almost everyone knows who it is)....big difference. 
 Mbd I'm sorry but of late you've gone overboard with this latest ....uh...subject WRT to generalizations being spread as gospel. Be careful with what you say and if you are upset...stay away from the keyboard until you've thought things through and are in a rational state to reply. Retract statements if they are found wanting or untruthful. The other members will think more of you for doing that then defending a position that is frankly, indefensible. Generally I don't like to comment on other members behavior because I feel what right do I have to say such things but I also feel members here have dealt with this incident with good intentions and only resorted to the inevitable barbs when those rational intentions were met with further hyperbole and puffery. Please take this criticism as constructive and positive because that's precisely what it is. I enjoy your enthusiasm, it's natural to be excited, just temper it with with some critical thought to keep things in balance.

 With all that said......do I still recommend the Zero ? Sure I do. Is it worth the risk to upgrade to a FrankenZERO, absolutely, with the caveat that end user assumes the risk of such a not so easy project to complete successfully. The result *is* worth the risk. That is the last I shall comment about the Zero and it's derivatives in this thread since this is the Compass thread...so with that lead in.......

 I have an announcement to make on the Compass review. It will be delayed in it's entirety simply because the scope of the task (and what I am doing with it) is so large there is no possible way I can complete it all today..... I'm sorry folks but I have to be honest about this. I gotten the Vinyl rig and some of the DAC work done today but I've really had to spend much more time on each comparison due to my hearing playing tricks on me (from the flu bug, which I'm almost over thank god). 

 I will take all of this weekend to complete all the various comparisons to gear I have on hand and do those comparisons by Headphone and via my reference system...so double the work load and the rough notes. I have 5 pages of rough notes without any comparisons yet.....this is turning into a War and Peace level epic. The writing and organization (editing etc from rough notes) will likely take another four or five hours to complete. The one good thing about this delay is the additional hours for the Compass (to hit 350) and for my ears to get back to normal which will speed things up.

 Please accept my humble apologies members and Kingwa for the delays...I do however promise that when it is done it will be worthy of the additional time needed for completion (hopefully, the jury hasn't heard the evidence yet).

 Anyway...that's the state of things as of 1:42 PM EST today.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First I would like to thank everyone for the kind words about my review. It was lots of work... but fun work! I want to thank mbd2884 for the recommendation of E.S. Posthumus. Cool stuff... I just went to their website to give a quick listen. I will be ordering a couple cds soon!
 To continue the discussion with Peete and Currawong ( and all else following the discussion) I suspect that the Compass will continue to settle in more as it burns in for a few months. There seems to be a general opinion the Audio-gd gear takes a LONG time to fully burn in. I will post improvements as I note them, but for the next month, I will run the Compass with the Earth installed and Soft 3 to fully burn in all the caps in the filter network of the headphone amp. Although the Soft 3 setting was a bit too soft, it was actually still VERY musical and fun to listen to. So... I plan on doing a long term "life with Soft 3" experience. I am actually looking forward to it. I think there are many older mid 80's recording that will be much more listenable with some filtering. So... I plan on donning my best "Flock of Seagulls" wig and taking a journey back in time...25 years or so!
 I'll let you know how it goes!_

 


 Cool....you know I saw those guys at a small outdoor (bowl) venue and they were quite good. I went for the opening act but ended up impressed by the closing one. I went into it without much expectation and came away pleasantly ...uh...entertained. That was 1982 or 83 I think...

 I spun the LP yesterday in fact (the first one) as part of the Vinyl source test. It's a well done recording for a change despite the genre and it peers.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Additional post script to the gain switch....that 19db is absolutely needed if you plan on using a Vinyl front end into the analog input. Even with the tube phono stage I had to increase the volume way past what I normally would for the MC-7R. I think the current settings are the best compromise and should leave them well enough alone.

 Those of us with 300 ohm phone or more need the additional gain IMO. Don't forget as you decrease gain you decrease the SNR level by default. Like everything in audio it's a best case compromise. Going from -13 to -7db represents a 200% decrease in loudness levels...and god knows what that will do for the SNR.

 That's it for me until late this evening...back to work...

 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

Sorry to interrupt Prickley Peete. But for those who are new to DAC/Amps as I and had questions about Audio-gd's design with their HDAM think is the answer to my question.

 So my question I had, the Amp is fully discrete, and the DAC is fully discrete. Regardless of whether the HDAM from Audio-gd are fully discrete or not, I was wondering why even use it. Then I got more confused as it seems with Solid State amps, one can have by rolling like Tubes, but roll OpAmps. So seeing the OpAmp placed in the DAC in the Compass confused me to no end. I asked earlier in this thread think it got looked over, so I been confused for weeks now.

 For those who had the same confusion as me above, I believe this is the answer. Audio-gd uses their HDAMs to act as a buffer between the DAC and Amp, which will prevent negative feedback, reduce distortions, prevent overloading distortion and electromagnetic interferences. Maybe I'm wrong, but seems it conditions the signal from the DAC to the Amp so for example, there is black silence when no music plays, and that you don't hear any distortions when the volume is increased up and down through the Amp.

 Quote from Wikipedia
  Quote:


 A unity gain buffer amplifier may be constructed very simply by connecting the output of an operational amplifier to its inverting input (negative feedback), and connecting a signal source to the non-inverting input. For this circuit, Vout is simply equal to Vin.

 The importance of this circuit does not come from any change in voltage, but from the input and output impedances of the op-amp. The input impedance of the op-amp is very high (MΩ to 10 TΩ), meaning that the input of the op-amp does not load down the source or draw any current from it. Because the output impedance of the op-amp is very low, it drives the load as if it were a perfect voltage source. Both the connections to and from the buffer are therefore bridging connections, which reduce power consumption in the source, distortion from overloading, crosstalk and other electromagnetic interference. 
 

*Why am I so enthusiastic about the Compass in threads aside from this one: causing me to appear as fanboy*
 Notice I refer to the Compass in threads where people are looking for 200-300 dollar solutions, DAC/Amp or just DAC or Amps alone. Also mention Compass a lot in threads looking for starter setups. I do this because of the promotional price. After this promotion is over, the Compass will no longer be within the budget of people I have been recommending the Compass to. I just want people to not miss out on this opportunity and realize that the Compass will not be a 2-300 dollar solution for long, and explain to them why its not a 200-300 dollar solution. So while they are looking at other 200-300, I'm saying hey look at this, you can get Compass within your budget before its well beyond your budget, this opportunity will not likely to come again this year, for any DAC/Amp combo. So yes for the time being I been pretty enthusiastic about it, once promotion is over, well then people can find out about the Compass themselves, and pay the full price. I don't mind being called fanboy btw, but affected by when people are saying I'm only recommending Compass because my judgement is clouded, as I do believe I layout distinct reasons why to buy, and I still have not ever compared Compass SQ to other products, or say its better, I just give them logical and good reasons why to choose Compass over other solutions.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Additional post script to the gain switch....that 19db is absolutely needed if you plan on using a Vinyl front end into the analog input. Even with the tube phono stage I had to increase the volume way past what I normally would for the MC-7R. I think the current settings are the best compromise and should leave them well enough alone.

 Those of us with 300 ohm phone or more need the additional gain IMO. Don't forget as you decrease gain you decrease the SNR level by default. Like everything in audio it's a best case compromise. Going from -13 to -7db represents a 200% decrease in loudness levels...and god knows what that will do for the SNR.

 That's it for me until late this evening...back to work...

 Peete._

 


 Interesting, Thanx for that! On HD 650's where is the MAX(On the Clock) you could run for LOUD Head Bangin' type stuff?

 My DV 337SE is kinda like this. Very Hard to run anything above 9:00-9:30-10:00. It was especially an issue when I first got it because DV had indexed the Vol knob at 6:00, so I took the amp out to the Garage to do some Plasma cutting!! Took a while to figure out where they indexed the knob! I didn't notice at first.



 .


----------



## csroc

With 13dB gain I can't really go much past about 9 o'clock on my HD650s. That's just me though, and using a digital input. That's why I wouldn't mind if the 13dB were dropped a bit.

 Again mbd, for the most part people aren't taking issue with the content of your message, but rather its delivery.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *juswyq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone done a straight-up comparison between the compass and the frankenzero? I killed my zero while trying to mod it, so now I can't decide whether to buy another zero and mod it, or get the compass, which costs two times of the zero._

 

I was going to make a separate post to reply to this comment, but I feel it is adequately covered in my below response to what took place after this post was made. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I think its a little unfair to say mbd can be called a shill, or that he has been 80% of the problem when such arguments start.

 First of all mbd is mostly correct, when he says that ZERO does have QC and warranty issues, yes its true that there are exceptions like WSZ0304 who are kind enough to replace defective parts or machine all together, but at least in my case, I ended paying more for a working ZERO than I was supposed to, plus the delay it caused, yes it is good service but then it comes with hassles, in the end instead of feeling happy, I do feel relieved.._

 

The Zero was awesome. It offered a great sound, and was a solid introduction for many people to the difference between a decent DAC, and either computer or budget CD player outputs.

 Modifying the Zero was a big hobby for a number of us, trying new things out, and tweaking the design. It was a lot of fun, represented a useful learning curve, and the results were excellent. A nicely tweaked unit excelled at a lot of things, and - even now - can't be beaten for the money IMO.

 Buzzing transformers annoyed a number of people. But it was something of a minor niggle. Units began to arrive on a regular basis that were either not working because of manufacturing problems, and shipped via poor quality control. Then we started to see the surge of wrongly inserted opamps, and a smaller number of cases where people had ordered the unit with uprated opamps - that weren't shipped.

 At the same time that these problems started cropping up, more and more buyers were left out in the cold by extremely poor after-sales support. Lawrence ruined his reputation on here within a short space of time, by leaving myself and other people with zero contact after reporting the problems. Others had better dealings with other sellers, but were - generally - well looked after, receiving replacement components or even complete units.

 And now, we're starting to see units fail. Some die during modification, but others have been tweaked and working for a good period of time before the unit randomly stops functioning. Mine was included with the latter category - I had done a number of modifications, all of which worked flawlessly for a lengthy period of time(I've worked repairing mobile phone PCBs, laptop PCBs, etc in the past, with over 5 years of experience, so I'm 'okay' with my soldering and basic understanding), to then suddenly fail to work for no real reason. On mine, all my soldering checked out okay. All regulated voltages were still clean, with an accurate voltage being generated.

 Going back to my first line... the Zero was awesome. The Zero _was_ awesome. It's still a good performer today, and represents the best sound to money ratio out of anything I've ever heard when modified. Mine cost me ~£90 delivered, with around ~£30 of parts(HDAM, caps, etc) to 'tweak'. The Compass is better in every single way - it sounds better, it's built better, the designer and manufacturer listens to his customers, and takes their voices on-board when designing and updating components. And their customer service is infinitely better than any Zero owner has experienced in the last 6 months, IMO.

 My modified Zero cost ~£120 delivered. The Compass has come in at ~£220.

 The Compass is worth every penny more to me, without hesitation. The Zero was an enjoyable journey for many of us, but it was also short-lived, painful, and ultimately killed off the pleasure for a significant number of members.

 Kingwa, Audio-gd and the Compass do have a fanboy following. But that's only because the products are superb, communications are superb, customer input - good and bad - is welcomed and positively encouraged, and their customer service is, without hesitation, utterly and completely superb - they treat you as an individual, and reward you handsomely for dealing with them.

 I am totally pleased-as-punch with every aspect of dealing with Kingwa, as are many others on here. It's unfortunate that people are badmouthed(some of us had a real slating when raising our concerns about Lawrence) for publically announcing problems with vendors, and it's unfortunate that people are badmouthed(called a shill) for being vocal about great service with vendors.

 Why do we always end up bickering in this thread? Everything is good with the product and service this thread was created for! There is no need for it to turn into an argument each day...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## haloxt

Now you guys know why that kitten is running away in that photo that circulates on the internet.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was going to make a separate post to reply to this comment, but I feel it is adequately covered in my below response to what took place after this post was made. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 The Zero was awesome. It offered a great sound, and was a solid introduction for many people to the difference between a decent DAC, and either computer or budget CD player outputs.

 Modifying the Zero was a big hobby for a number of us, trying new things out, and tweaking the design. It was a lot of fun, represented a useful learning curve, and the results were excellent. A nicely tweaked unit excelled at a lot of things, and - even now - can't be beaten for the money IMO.

 <<<<SNIP SNIP>>>>>



 ~Phewl._

 

BRILLIANT!!

 You Paid your dues in the "Zero" wars no doubt!

 Your experiences with the Zero(as well as a lot of others) are what turned me against the product and your Vendor in particular.

 Flexibility should be the rule here.

 This product can hold it's own against comment. You cannot make everybody love it no matter how loud or how obnoxious you get. One might say getting Loud and Obnoxious is counter productive. It accomplishes the opposite of what one is trying to accomplish. Calling people names, well that speaks for itself.

 The Compass will stand on it's own or die on it's own. In the end, only Kingwa can make it a great product. If he fails, as the Zero Vendor/Factory failed, word of mouth will kill it quick in this community. You can see how the Zero thread has screeched to a halt and what has happened to it.

 It's a Shame really....


----------



## mbd2884

Plugs arrived today from Whiplash Audio. I got the Furutech FP-704 and Neutric 3.5mm Plug. With shipping came to $21. I ordered Tuesday afternoon arrived today. On their webpage said my order was processing, so I emailed, Craig responded at like 1 in the morning here with all the details for shipment. Good stuff.

 The Neutrik looks as expected. Soldering should take 10 minutes max, easy.

 Furutech, I'm confused. Looks weird, will have to sit for a while figure out which is left and right. And this thing is massive, so huge I think it looks stupid. But its not worth the hassle sending back and what not, since Whiplash doesn't sell 1/4" Neutrik equivalent NP3X to the Furutech. So I'll be soldering this stuff tonight while the g/f is laughing at American Dad.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You cannot make everybody love it no matter how loud or how obnoxious you get. One might say getting Loud and Obnoxious is counter productive. It accomplishes the opposite of what one is trying to accomplish. Calling people names, well that speaks for itself._

 

Sorry... was I loud and obnoxious with that post, or are we just talking about forum behaviour in general? Just checking... I don't feel I was, but I'm sorry if that's how it came across. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great job Joeoboe.....very informative and well written. Thumbs up !

 I agree with you about the Earth OPA .

 Peete._

 

I agree with _him_





, great write up, Joeoboe! I've been holding off on my Compass until the end of this month, mostly for financial reasons as it's a $600+ investment in $NZ terms even at it's special introductory price. 
 It's all sounding very good indeed and I'm in! To have an excellent headphone amp as well, not to mention the superb build quality, makes my next purchase something to really look forward to. I'm already familiar with Kingwa's top quality electronics and I'm delighted to be getting more of it. 
 I admired my beautifully built "Beast" power supply for 5 days before I put it into service! It just sat on my desk beside the iBook so that I could enjoy looking at it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-man

 Addendum: After reading AP's recent well written comments on his Zero experiences etc, I would have to concur with you mate, bad service needs to be openly discussed as does the finest of service from the likes of Kingwa, what a treat to deal with the man! There are others like him, I have a dealer in the States I get my Sanyo Os-Cons from and he is every bit as amenable as Kingwa with very swift service and obviously a business man of integrity. Once I've ordered parts from him I receive them in 5 days flat to my door. I'll praise him up to anyone. 
 My own Zero has been a musical joy since day one and the full monty FrankenZero is a wonderfully musical piece of kit! It's worked flawlessly from the beginning and is a delight no matter if I use it with my main system, from the lappy, running into my 2Move or even the 2nd Gen T-Amp! Along with my KHA amps, it's the finest musical bargain I've come across in 35 years of audio!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry... was I loud and obnoxious with that post, or are we just talking about forum behaviour in general? Just checking... I don't feel I was, but I'm sorry if that's how it came across. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Heh,
 Absolutely not. I was making a comment about the slant of posts today as I thought you were to. I'll go back and re-read why you thought it was directed at you.


 EDIT: It was the "Fanboyism" comments at the last portion of your post. I'll reiterate what I said before. This product should stand on it's own merits, no amount of Fanboy/Shilling, or ramming it down someone's throat should be necessary. 

 And this is as I said before here, a general statement about todays posts, not meant for you specifically. 

 I'm on board with your observations for the most part.

 .


----------



## AudioPhewl

Ahh... cheers, les garten. I wasn't sure if my post had been misconstrued as yet more "fanboyism" for the Compass. The Compass really doesn't need anyone to shout about how good it is - it would stand up well in it's own right against anything else at around the same cost.

 I never re-read what I've typed out, as I always want to change it, and it ends up less directed and illogical, hence I wasn't sure if I'd actually come across as a fanboy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahh... cheers, les garten. I wasn't sure if my post had been misconstrued as yet more "fanboyism" for the Compass. The Compass really doesn't need anyone to shout about how good it is - it would stand up well in it's own right against anything else at around the same cost.

 I never re-read what I've typed out, as I always want to change it, and it ends up less directed and illogical, hence I wasn't sure if I'd actually come across as a fanboy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Sir, you have always Exhibited typical British decorum and Continental etiquette!

 You were on the cusp of the LC meltdown and my suggestion that you were too rough with LC, I would like to formally retract. No excuse for that type of business practices.



 .


----------



## Joeoboe

les_garten;5394522 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> Are you doing the Soft 3 position for a long time because you want to leave all the Jumpers in for a long time, or you just are starting to like it?
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Les, I have decided to do a long term Soft 3 test for two reasons. The first is that I really suspect the best is yet to come as far as the break in of the Compass is concerned, so running Soft 3 will burn in the entire circuit, so it will be easier to see the changes in ALL the settings later. The second reason... I was really fascinated with how much fun the Soft 3 setting was on ultra bright recordings... I think it will be a great excuse to revisit all those recordings that I don't listen to due to their bright mastering. I know listening to Level 42's Chinese Way was just a blast... big smile on my face the entire time!


----------



## les_garten

Joeoboe;5395495 said:
			
		

> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

A quick note and observation as I'm now through 2/3 'rds of the DAC comparison....cabling quality absolutely has a sizable impact on output of the DAC section in "super" mode.

 The FrankenDAC had been setup with Nordost BH IC's (as usual) and the Better cables silver serpent COAX SPDIF (from the CDM12 Pro) going into input 1 on the MC 7R while the Compass was using the TOSlink supplied with the unit and some run of mill old but still quite good Monster IC's from the early 80's. I figured that would be a fair rep of the majority of users out there....anyway to make a long story short...I had done 2 complete CD run throughs (with 2 of my ref discs) with matched levels by just selecting input 1 or input 2 on the MC-7R pre (to cycle back and forth to each DAC)....well some differences started to show up that couldn't be easily explained ...at first I simply thought one is clearly better than the other and as it turns out one is...but the differences between the 2 shrank considerably when I used the exact same cabling to the both...leveled the playing field so to speak.

 Moral of this story...more PITA work for me (no quick A/B) but a much closer result in terms of DAC qualities. I feel the larger differences noted in the tests using different cabling during the on the fly test did show however root differences between the two and will be kept. The conclusion for the section will reflect what has been discovered thus far. 

 I thought it might be useful to let you guys know this up front in case others planned on isolating parts of the unit for comparison using a traditional stereo for evaluation. It goes without saying that from here on in the exact same cabling combinations will be used for each section (if they are needed as such). I know it seems elementary to use the same cabling for all tests but I really thought it wouldn't make THAT much of a difference...I am dead wrong on that front. The Compass is easily capable of showing cable differences both in digital input and IC's. That's good if you ask me...means the resolution capability is right up there with good gear.

 Back to work for me....

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting, Thanx for that! On HD 650's where is the MAX(On the Clock) you could run for LOUD Head Bangin' type stuff?

 My DV 337SE is kinda like this. Very Hard to run anything above 9:00-9:30-10:00. It was especially an issue when I first got it because DV had indexed the Vol knob at 6:00, so I took the amp out to the Garage to do some Plasma cutting!! Took a while to figure out where they indexed the knob! I didn't notice at first.



 ._

 

Some CD's (loudness disease) I can't get past 9, while others I can ramp up to 10:30 or even 11. Some classical and opera discs have a very wide dynamic range with differences on the order of 30db between softest and loudest sectors in the recording. Depends on the recording but averages around 90db ...if I want to blast it I go to 100 db but not for long. Very rarely do I ever blast the headphones..unless the disc is very well produced and recorded which is getting to be a rarity these days (sadly) in my main genre of music. LPs sound fantastic however...noon to 1:00 o'clock...trust me that's not very loud when using a analog front end. Maybe 95db at most. The phono stage has a volume output as well. This is with a 5mV MM cartridge on the 1.75 V output of the tube stage.

 Might be worthwhile to get yourself some Gold Point vol kits and design your own curve...they supply everything you need to do it although a pair of mono vol pots and the smd resisitors/pcb assembly will set you back about 399US.....best Vol pots on the planet though.

 Here's a link to wet your whistle Goldpoint Level Controls

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some CD's (loudness disease) I can't get past 9, while others I can ramp up to 10:30 or even 11. Some classical and opera discs have a very wide dynamic range with differences on the order of 30db between softest and loudest sectors in the recording. Depends on the recording but averages around 90db ...if I want to blast it I go to 100 db but not for long. Very rarely do I ever blast the headphones..unless the disc is very well produced and recorded which is getting to be a rarity these days (sadly) in my main genre of music. LPs sound fantastic however...noon to 1:00 o'clock...trust me that's not very loud when using a analog front end. Maybe 95db at most. The phono stage has a volume output as well. This is with a 5mV MM cartridge on the 1.75 V output of the tube stage.

 Might be worthwhile to get yourself some Gold Point vol kits and design your own curve...they supply everything you need to do it although a pair of mono vol pots and the smd resisitors/pcb assembly will set you back about 399US.....best Vol pots on the planet though.

 Here's a link to wet your whistle Goldpoint Level Controls
 Peete._

 


 Very Tasty Indeed!!


 .


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sir, you have always Exhibited typical British decorum and Continental etiquette!_

 

LMAO!! If I had room in my sig, that would be a permanent fixture! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 You were on the cusp of the LC meltdown and my suggestion that you were too rough with LC, I would like to formally retract. No excuse for that type of business practices. 
 

No worries mate, absolutely none at all. Someone had to be one of the first to hit the downward slope... he'd done a fair few dealings with many folks on here, and was the only guy to bother offering upgrades. The first strong complaint will always go down hard under such circumstances. I'm just saddened that I wasn't the only one to get stung by him. Still, all my money came back with a chargeback, so LC is out of pocket for the Zero, and the shipping. Hitting them in the pocket is sometimes the only way for things to improve... sadly, it didn't. Others have had to resort to chargebacks too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 On a brighter note, I've got Katie Melua singing through my Compass. It's frightfully nicely balanced and natural... the whole recording is so "personal", on a level I've never experienced with the Zero and HDAM combination. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LMAO!! If I had room in my sig, that would be a permanent fixture! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







 No worries mate, absolutely none at all. Someone had to be one of the first to hit the downward slope... he'd done a fair few dealings with many folks on here, and was the only guy to bother offering upgrades. The first strong complaint will always go down hard under such circumstances. I'm just saddened that I wasn't the only one to get stung by him. Still, all my money came back with a chargeback, so LC is out of pocket for the Zero, and the shipping. Hitting them in the pocket is sometimes the only way for things to improve... sadly, it didn't. Others have had to resort to chargebacks too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 On a brighter note, I've got Katie Melua singing through my Compass. It's frightfully nicely balanced and natural... the whole recording is so "personal", on a level I've never experienced with the Zero and HDAM combination. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Hey,
 I don't know how much of LC's business is Ebay, but it didn't look like he was doing enough on Ebay to just write off the Head-Fi Community. So it would seem it was poor business to deal with you and others with Silence. He paid for it in the Long run, he was charged back, and his rep got nailed. CRAZY!! 

 Glad it worked out for you though!

 Glad you enjoyed the quip, Always makes us happy here in the Colonies when we can amuse you Brits!


 .


----------



## Currawong

Ugh, I have had a cold for a few days now and that's put me off wanting to do anything. I decided this morning I'd stay off the computer, but look how far that resolution got me!

 Some thoughts:

 I tried the soft settings -- they are very nicely subtle and take the edge off the brightness in some music, without leaving it sounding dull. 

 The problem with my Northstar -> Compass HP amp was with power cables. My home-made ones were causing serious dullness. 

 I appreciate the comments about trusting my reviews. However, I have to extrapolate a bit with the conclusions, based on the limted gear I've tried and a lot of reading on head-fi, matching people's descriptions of, say, the performance of headphones with certain gear with what I'm hearing. Probably I was luckiest in that when I had the Lavry DA-10, it has a built-in headphone amp, so when I did the C2C review, I could hear the exact difference the C2C made, ignoring the effects of my ICs. And many people have owned DA-10s.

 Les: I think the Ref 1 comment in your sig was a bit silly, but that's me. The Zero thread quietened down a lot after I posted my FAQ. A considerable amount of discussion in the thread was basic questions before that.

 About the arguments that keep coming up in this thread: I have lost my tolerance for them. That's all I'll say (lest I start another one).


----------



## mbd2884

Ok, I have soldered on the Furutech to my AD900s and the Neutrik to my D2000.

 The Neutrik was 100% easier to do. It was clean, easy, and overall I am pleased. Sounds good too, not sure if its better, but seems to be, but guessing its placebo effect. Either way its got a more sturdy feel to it. 

 Furutech, what a pain in the ass. Sat there for 5 minutes just deciding how I wanted it to do it. They could have made it hell lot easier. And yes its truly massive. The black ring for for the jack on the Compass, yeah the Furutech plug is about the same size. I still think its ugly, not what I was expecting at all. Although its really solid, I feel if I took a hammer to it, it would survive unscathed, OK exaggerating, but sure feels like it could. But its still ugly.

 Sound wise, I am pleased. Running my AD900s with a 1/4" plug instead of a 1/8" with an adapter, definite noticeable difference. Another layer of veil is removed. The bass has been tightened a little more, with more impact. The treble is clearer and the more distinct. Overall its just more fun, and happy I decided to replace the plug. If you have a 1/8" on yours, I recommend re-terminating it. But I would use the Neutrik 1/4" gold plated. Its cheaper than the Furutech, slimmer design and easier to solder. Furutech is one fat, massive ugly plug that sounds awesome. But with the Furutech, definitely not placebo. The plug used by Audio Technica has a plastic stem that the the wires are soldered onto. Just seems to be far inferior design to the Furutech and positive that affected the sound. 

 I also replaced the USB cable with a fully shielded cable, made sure no ferrite in it, and the ends are gold plated also. 3 ft, sounds fine, haven't done any ABX with the default USB cable yet. My power cable from Audio-gd should be here next Monday or Tuesday. I think the Compass with Laptop as source setup will be complete then.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok,
 I also replaced the USB cable with a fully shielded cable, made sure no ferrite in it, and the ends are gold plated also. 3 ft, sounds fine, haven't done any ABX with the default USB cable yet. My power cable from Audio-gd should be here next Monday or Tuesday. I think the Compass with Laptop as source setup will be complete then._

 

Let us know know your impressions on USB cable change, I was on the verge of ordering monster usb, when Kingwa advised me not to, according to him many local DAC100 users found the stock USB as good as cables costing 4 times.. but I am still interested because I have read in many other forums that swapping stock USB cable does make a difference.. in fact one very good 
 link was posted here a few days back on this subject..
 Btw, also let us know your impressions when you have the custom power cables..


----------



## mbd2884

Well switched back and forth 7 times, yeah I agree with Kingwa, doesn't matter. Would seem as long as the USB cable is 2.0 Compatible, properly shielded, and timing is fast and accurate, no ferrites, sounds same. As logically makes sense, going from USB to the DAC is just pure 0s and 1s, as long as with streaming audio is on time sounds same.

 For me just have to decide, whether just knowing its a decent cable is enough to keep it or return it. Overall, just up to you if you want to upgrade it or not, But I think it will be just for cosmetics, not for sound.


----------



## sandchak

Thanks mbd, in any case, I think the gold plating can act as anti corrosive and better contacts.. but like I stated above, there seems to be better USB cables in the market that did make a difference to many - anyway, looking forward to power cable impressions now - i personally found things get much clearer and better dynamics - effecting sound stage, nothing tonally to talk about..


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah I'll probably keep the cable for the reasons you listed. Cable was about 17 dollars, pretty reasonable, its pretty simple.


----------



## hdlovar

So, is there any time-frame on the updated version of the compass?

 I'm sold, I just need to put in my order for one of these bad boys.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hdlovar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, is there any time-frame on the updated version of the compass?

 I'm sold, I just need to put in my order for one of these bad boys._

 

End of February but no official date that I am aware of. Im waiting along with you, as I suspect many others are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Itll be close. I fly out for grad school interviews on the 14th of March so it might be close whether it arives on time =X If it does I could just let it burn the entire 9 days that Im away ooooooor if Im gusty, take it with me =D


----------



## WC Annihilus

I'm a bit torn as to whether I want to get in on this or not. I'm pretty much a newbie at this point, running a pair of RX900s out of a Pioneer receiver, so have little idea whether I'd be able to notice the difference or not. I'd like to think I have a decent set of ears, but who knows. Also a bit of a cheapskate (being a college student doesn't help), and anything over $100 is a fair bit to me. But this just sounds so tempting based on the initial impressions and the promotional price. Doorknob, having a modded pair of RX900 (and I plan to mod mine eventually) made things sound promising. I guess what I'm sort of thinking is that I can get it at the promo price, if I decide it's a bit much, I can wait until the promo is over and simply sell it for exactly how much I paid for it >.>


----------



## K3cT

^
 If only I knew how to solder and stuff, I'll surely go for the DIY route like you.


----------



## sxr71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The notion of designing a head-fi oriented company from the ground up with the perfect DAC/amp for a perfect price just reminds me of how many problems the chinese head-fi market has. They have so much talent and potential, but they just need the right angle and presentation.

 Go to audiophilechina.com and see all the different brands, they're solid items but need some work. 

 Most of the designs look solid - stuff like the Zero DAC has been a smash hit around here because it delivers the goods for a low price. But work on presentation...lots of people judge books by their cover...I can at least learn a few things about what something might be like by how the outside looks, although of course I look inside the unit and listen to what others have to say. Make your website look better than audiophilechina.com, hire two people that speak perfect english to man your phones and website and answer emails instantaneously - reputation is built when communication is good, and people will love your company even before they get your good product. 

 With a good product and distribution in the right way, a new DAC/amp offering could be the next big thing here, and I love that the company is taking suggestions straight from us. So many companies have tried to please us, but we can learn from their mistakes since none of them have been absolutely perfect._

 


 Do you know why the DAC costs $250?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pampam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still overwhelmingly amazed every time I step into this forum, as I see that here these DACs like the Zero and the ones by audio-gd are market-killers without any right to be.

 I have a Musiland SVDAC05, and I've always found it superior to the Zero. Now with all its electrolitic capacitors replaced (Sanyo WG, Panasonic FM & FC), the output capacitors removed (were practically redundant), the opamps being LME49710's, and with WIMA MKP4 and Evox MMK bypass caps added on the various power lines (mostly those for the opamps), it's the highest end cheap DAC I've ever dreamed of hearing. I've got the feeling that it'll last me long. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pampam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm with you on that -- except for one thing. The Musiland SVDAC05 (with CS4398) and SVDAC06 (with AD1852) are awesome budget DACs, that shouldn't be overlooked when looking for such a thing. Of course they can be improved, but that's not necessary at all. Oh and the HA ELEC "Mini DAC 1852" and the more expensive (but with high-end PCM1794) "NG94" are awesome too. See them on Worldwide Chinese Headphone Amplifier Dealer ._

 

Well, those are a lot of bold statements. Sure, there are plenty of other DACs besides those of Audio-Gd, budget or otherwise. But apart from the Zero and the Musiland SVDAC05, how many of these DACs have you actually heard?

 Inquiring minds want to know.


----------



## K3cT

^
 The Compass is a new product so I expect excitement to intermingle with the impressions. Right now it's in the same phase as the Zero when it was first released here. 

 Perfectly understandable of course but I would urge everyone to approach the Compass with an open mind.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pampam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of course, feel free to trust me or not. I just don't see a reason in the world why all the 4 DACs I mentioned shouldn't be taken as seriously as those by audio-gd -- and more seriously than the shabby (in every way) Zero._

 

Well, trust goes only so far in this hobby, in the end it's only your own ears and preferences that are relevant. But sure, the Zero went FOTY big time, possibly at the expense of other DACs, which (for a slightly higher price) would have given more bang for buck. Then again, some of the Zero users remain adamant that the Zero, certainly in it's modded form is still the ultimate in performance for price in its price range. I can't judge, I've never heard the Zero.

 But what I am sincerely curious about: Would you, with your experience in DACs consider the Audio-Gd DACs in general and the Reference series in particular to be overpriced and/or overrated? (Judging by appearances and the conclusions you're able to draw from that.)


----------



## Joeoboe

pampam,
 I think the reason you are seeing everyone here talking about the Compass is that it is a thread _about the Compass_. There are plenty of fine products available and if you want your own thread about them, you could start one. 
 I think the reason the Zero was such a topic was its CHEAP price for its performance. The Compass is generating similar excitement for potentially being a great value. Being an owner of one, I must say the build quality and components used are impressive. Unlike many inexpensive products from China this DAC/Amp does not use any opamps which is a feature which that caught my eye from the early design stages. Also, it is rare that you can have a dialog with the actual engineer designing a product and give them input. Usually the Chinese devices are pretty generic where-as the Audio-gd stuff reminds me of the early days of Krell ( which I am unfortunately old enough to remember!)


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pampam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still overwhelmingly amazed every time I step into this forum, as I see that here these DACs like the Zero and the ones by audio-gd are market-killers without any right to be.

 I have a Musiland SVDAC05, and I've always found it superior to the Zero. Now with all its electrolitic capacitors replaced (Sanyo WG, Panasonic FM & FC), the output capacitors removed (were practically redundant), the opamps being LME49710's, and with WIMA MKP4 and Evox MMK bypass caps added on the various power lines (mostly those for the opamps), it's the highest end cheap DAC I've ever dreamed of hearing. I've got the feeling that it'll last me long. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Hi I agree to some extent with you, but you must realize:

 This is a Compass thread, so whether you like it or not you will hear a lot about it.

 It is a thread which was initiated to find an alternate to ZERO, as many had experienced QC problems with ZERO, so again you are bound to find a lot of comparisons with Stock, Moded and ultimately Franken ZERO.

 Most of us here apart from very few are as rare as you are, in the sense we mostly have limited knowledge and Non DIYers – in fact if I was as good as you, the best DAC would have been an empty and well-designed PCB and I would do the rest – No brands would come into picture whatsoever.

 So, I don’t think there is a need to be absolutely amazed if you don’t hear the names you expect to hear, because if you look back to the opening pages of the thread, its did not start with Compass per se, but as a project to develop a good DAC, so most of the folks out here have kind of put in their minds, efforts and money to give life to Compass, For someone like me who isn’t a DIYer, it gives me maybe the same pleasure as you get from doing your own upgrades.. And also this is not a usual thread like “the best DAC below $$$$”, so actually it surprises me a lot when you say you are overwhelmingly amazed ! to find a few names missing..

 One must also remember not everyone has really come up with its evaluations of Compass, and still under burn in, so in this situation where we do not have a real concrete/conclusive answer/verdict on Compass (although generally it’s been positive), it is difficult to pit it against other DACs


 Finally I’ll be very glad if you can do a side by side review of Compass with whatever you feel amazed that wasn’t included and let us know your impressions, and if you could also let us know how much further Compass can be tweaked/upgraded – that would be great too..


----------



## Currawong

Very likely: pampam = Andrea = the most banned person on head-fi. Not worth replying to him people.


----------



## sandchak

Dont tell me.. it took me 15 mins in this fever to type my response!!.. anyway, I guess some good news - Kingwa has finally managed to find a good translator, although she will only join in after a month, in any case, I guess this would help in better understandable emails, better website translations, and off-course, I think she will take International calls too - so I think its good for him and good for everyone that deals with him..


----------



## Drosera

For those wondering what Currawong is talking about: Andrea


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dont tell me.. it took me 15 mins in this fever to type my response!!.. anyway, I guess some good news - Kingwa has finally managed to find a good translator, although she will only join in after a month, in any case, I guess this would help in better understandable emails, better website translations, and off-course, I think she will take International calls too - so I think its good for him and good for everyone that deals with him.._

 

Sorry to hear that. Now please go back to bed!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice to hear that about the translator. I've always found the English on the website somewhat charming and actually quite interesting as well, because it gives you some insight into the metaphorical qualities of the Chinese language. But I do have to admit I did sometimes wonder what was meant exactly by certain phrases. Must be hard finding someone sufficiently fluent in English in China at the moment, I can imagine businesses fighting over them.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to hear that. Now please go back to bed!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice to hear that about the translator. I've always found the English on the website somewhat charming and actually quite interesting as well, because it gives you some insight into the metaphorical qualities of the Chinese language. But I do have to admit I did sometimes wonder what was meant exactly by certain phrases. Must be hard finding someone sufficiently fluent in English in China at the moment, I can imagine businesses fighting over them._

 

You are right, its very difficult to find good translators in that part of the world, the good ones are usually attached to major corporations and extremely expensive - if available.
 Infact, in the past 2 years he met with 6 translators and after one session of interaction - Kingwa realized he was far better than them !! so I am keeping my fingers crossed on this one too.. anyway, I am sure if he says at last he found a good one - then I am sure he means that..

 Righto, I am off the day - watch the lights go off !!..


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pampam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still overwhelmingly amazed every time I step into this forum, as I see that here these DACs like the Zero and the ones by audio-gd are market-killers without any right to be.

 I have a Musiland SVDAC05, and I've always found it superior to the Zero. Now with all its electrolitic capacitors replaced (Sanyo WG, Panasonic FM & FC), the output capacitors removed (were practically redundant), the opamps being LME49710's, and with WIMA MKP4 and Evox MMK bypass caps added on the various power lines (mostly those for the opamps), it's the highest end cheap DAC I've ever dreamed of hearing. I've got the feeling that it'll last me long. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmm well the last Andrea didn't mention about modding his SVDAC05, only that it required repair. And also theres a lack of mention of weird opamp combos for the Zero too. It would be a bit harsh to just assume that it was Andrea... however Andrea did mention the Super Pro 707 too

 In regards to the Zero vs SVDAC05, like I've said before, I couldn't hear a difference from two fresh units so I guess my ears/equipment aren't good enough. wsz0304 however did recommend me the SVDAC05 over the Zero because according to him it sounded better.


----------



## mbd2884

Delete me too please.


----------



## mbd2884

My post no longer makes sense, haha, delete me also please


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pampam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you buy a $250 DAC for USB? I would buy a $50 USB sound card for that - or nothing at all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 You are obviously on the wrong forum.


----------



## les_garten

Hello CompassHeads!

 Put this PAMPAM in your ignore list till he can be dealt with. Don't answer or refer to him, don't get sucked in.

 He said this and screwed the pooch on who he is: Quote:


 """""I've seen the overall level of experience and competence of forum members going down and down over the last 4 years... to the point that now the forum seems to be a meeting place for alienated teenagers."""" 
 


 That statement tells me he's been banned a million times already.

 So he's been here "four" years, but he just got an account in the last few days and has spent all his posts finding a Zero related thread and started thread-crapping immediately!! Yeah, he's innocent. Just ignore this pustulent Boil...



 .


----------



## haloxt

edit: lol byebye pampam

 edit #2: If there's anyone who gets a compass and is good at using RMAA, could you try to test it over time just to see if burn-in is visible to RMAA?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yep, that's Andrea all right...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Seems I'm not alone in misery (from the cold or flu bug) this week. Sorry to hear of the illnesses guys. May you all recover quickly !!!

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edit #2: If there's anyone who gets a compass and is good at using RMAA, could you try to test it over time just to see if burn-in is visible to RMAA?_

 

Grumble, I was I had though of that. And thought of it earlier. Not that I've ever used RMAA, but I could have given it a shot. A little late now, because I suspect the most significant burn-in happens between 0 and 50 hours (of the opamp that is, the Compass has already seen 100 hours of course).

 By the way, does anyone know if the Moon that came as default in the Compass has seen the same 100 hours burn-in as the rest of the unit?


----------



## haloxt

I would try to take records from ~150h self burn-in, but I don't know enough about rmaa to take good measurements (you should see my rmaa measurements on the halo thread if you want a good laugh). If you are good at it it would still be quite useful to test it at whatever hour you are at and posting periodic results, it will help out the people who can test it from hour 0 (not including manufacturer burn-in).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

RMAA testing won't tell you jack squat about burn in. Think of this testing as a rough tool to see the limits and capabilities of the unit...those measurements won't tell you much if anything of it's sound quality though which is why I dismiss specs in general. Although some specs are worth paying attention to...such as power output into various loads, the specs behind the Soft modes, overall SNR and gain...beyond that most amps made today measure very similar in freq response, THD etc...in other words most quality designs will all have good basic numbers.

 Compass Update : Moved on to the pre-amp section evaluation(s) vs various pieces of kit I have on hand. The DAC testing yesterday was a delight and a big surprise in some instances.

 Righto back to work...

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would try to take records from ~150h self burn-in, but I don't know enough about rmaa to take good measurements (you should see my rmaa measurements on the halo thread if you want a good laugh). If you are good at it it would still be quite useful to test it at whatever hour you are at and posting periodic results, it will help out the people who can test it from hour 0 (not including manufacturer burn-in)._

 

Well, I'm not laughing, because you're not the only one. This might just be too ambitious for me as well.
 First of all I can't get it to recognise my USB output. Optical does work, but, as I've already described, that is of atrocious quality, so I doubt that will give dependable readings. Then there is ridiculous channel imbalance, which can only be fixed by putting RMAA in mono mode. And then there's still always clipping (probably because the line-in jack isn't making good contact). The whole thing results in measurements that tell me that harmonic distortion is more than 60% 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (I do hope not!). Perhaps I'm just gonna have to leave this one to someone who at least has a decent soundcard and doesn't have to do all this through the mobo.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grumble, I was I had though of that. And thought of it earlier. Not that I've ever used RMAA, but I could have given it a shot. A little late now, because I suspect the most significant burn-in happens between 0 and 50 hours (of the opamp that is, the Compass has already seen 100 hours of course).

 By the way, does anyone know if the Moon that came as default in the Compass has seen the same 100 hours burn-in as the rest of the unit?_

 

Kingwa told me the Moon was burned in with the unit. It also did not have a sticker on it... so I have to make sure I keep track of what it is and not confuse it with another HDAM! The Earth I was sent was NOT burned in ahead of time though.


----------



## Sganzerla

Joe, have you perceived any difference in sound after your 'review'?

 I'm still interested in opinions of more knowledge persons about this amp being suficient to drive K701s. I can't read specs very well and have no experience with good gear like Bada, Doge, Head-Direct, DIY amps, etc...

 But if someone ask me, I'm already VERY happy with sound coming from this unit, much more than was with Zero, for sure.


----------



## haloxt

I was thinking all of the HDAM's would have 100 hours of burn-in. I did notice the Sun V2 didn't have the ground wire bent like the other two I got so maybe some of the hdam's really aren't burned-in so I'll start using Sun V2 again.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joe, have you perceived any difference in sound after your 'review'?

 I'm still interested in opinions of more knowledge persons about this amp being suficient to drive K701s. I can't read specs very well and have no experience with good gear like Bada, Doge, Head-Direct, DIY amps, etc...

 But if someone ask me, I'm already VERY happy with sound coming from this unit, much more than was with Zero, for sure._

 

Hmm need to reread this posting.

 I know Currawong gave his initial impression with K701.

 Curra uses the HD600 and Peete uses the HD650, and they both have no problems. And I haven't read any review that says the K701 are hard to drive anyways.


----------



## les_garten

Originally Posted by Sganzerla View Post

  Quote:


 Joe, have you perceived any difference in sound after your 'review'?

 I'm still interested in opinions of more knowledge persons about this amp being suficient to drive K701s. I can't read specs very well and have no experience with good gear like Bada, Doge, Head-Direct, DIY amps, etc...

 But if someone ask me, I'm already VERY happy with sound coming from this unit, much more than was with Zero, for sure. 
 




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That seemed extremely insulting, pretty much said, your opinion doesn't matter.

 There have been two people here so far who gave their impressions with K701, and two people with HD600 and HD650, both of which harder to drive than K701.

 Your answers to if Compass can drive your, honestly not hard to drive K701 have already been answered. The only way to resolve your skepticism is listen to Compass yourself, since two of those people are well respected members here with their fair share of experience.

 How much more knowledgeable do you need? One person lead the Frankenmod Zero, good at DIY. The other, well he has listened to more amps, dacs, headphones that I can even imagine._

 



 If you don't start a fight every day, you're just not happy are you??


 .


----------



## mbd2884

Err, I already fixed my post Les...


----------



## AudioPhewl

I received a letter from DHL today, complete with an invoice for VAT. It doesn't make much sense to me...

 Shippers invoice value - £39.84
 Freight value - £75.09
 Value for customer purposes - £114.93
 VAT value adjustment - £6.69
 Value for VAT purposes - £121.62
 VAT - £18.24

 Does that make sense to anyone else? The declared value was USD$60.4, with Kingwa's standard shipping charge of USD$65. The exchange rate used was 1.516, which should make a total value of £82.72, the VAT(15%) on which should be £12.40 if my sums are right?

 Am I missing something? Shouldn't the VAT be applied to the price charged for shipping, which was $65?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## mbd2884

Those are some huge numbers, hope you can resolve that fast.


----------



## WC Annihilus

Obviously the freight charge got way inflated. Perhaps they based it off of the standard rate rather than Kingwa's discounted rate?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Ah, after Googling I've concluded that because Kingwa didn't put the actual shipping charges on the invoice, they use their own pre-determined rate.

 I'll write them a letter, detailing the cost of shipping($65) and the cost of the itme on the invoice($60.4), convert them using their own conversion rate, and include a cheque for 15% of that total.

 It only makes a difference of around £6, but it's the principle of the thing to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They also added a £1.25 "administration fee". Reckon I can knock it off, under the basis of my own administration fee for having to calculate the charges, use toner and paper, and the cost of posting the letter?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WC Annihilus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Obviously the freight charge got way inflated. Perhaps they based it off of the standard rate rather than Kingwa's discounted rate?_

 

You posted your reply whilst I was typing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You posted your reply whilst I was typing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl._

 

They charge VAT on Shipping??? That just plain SUX!!

 You guys need a revolution!


 .


----------



## decayed.cell

So, again I ask is anyone willing to get some frequency curves up? If the burn in effect is real there should be (I think?) a slight change in frequency curve as the unit accumulates hours


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They charge VAT on Shipping??? That just plain SUX!!

 You guys need a revolution!
 ._

 

The United State of Britainland is rubbish! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Joeoboe

Just to clear up a point that might have been missed in my review. I used the AKG K701 exclusively, so my comments were all based on that, including my statement that even at the low gain setting I was seldom able to turn the volume over 10 o'clock... and 10 o'clock was very loud indeed. Of course the volume used will be dependent on the recording, but rest assured this amp has gobs of power. 
 Regarding how difficult K701s are to drive, you answer two ways, both of which are correct. The 62 ohm load that the K701 presents is an easy load for most amps, especially solid state amps. Tube amps... it can depend on how they are designed. I have heard some say the Little Dot all tube amps do not drive the K701s as well as they do the HD650s... this is hear-say on my part and I couldn't tell you if either were true. What I CAN tell you is that the K701s sensitivity rating is HIGHLY optimistic as spec'd by AKG. Using a inexpensive sound pressure level meter, I measured them as 10-12 db LESS sensitive than my Sennheiser HD595. So... the amp is happy with the impedance but you have to push the volume knob way up compared to other headphones of similar impedance but higher sensitivity.
 In any case... no worries with the Compass regarding it's ability to drive the K701. 
 I have had fun listening for the last couple days using the Soft 3 setting... I am not planning on doing a definitive follow up for a few weeks. I WILL report if something is wrong or sounds badly... but for now, no news is good news!


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, again I ask is anyone willing to get some frequency curves up? If the burn in effect is real there should be (I think?) a slight change in frequency curve as the unit accumulates hours_

 

If it is indeed real then something should be able to measure changes over the long stretches of time people claim to be necessary to burn in some gear, including Audio-gd. 

 I'm not much of a burn-in believer. Certainly not the very long times many people wax poetic about, but that doesn't mean there isn't some sort of change that can occur with mechanical components or even electrical ones, just that if that change happens it's likely extremely quick and some believe it reverses once the juice is cut only to happen all over again in a split second the next time the component is turned on.

 Much like cables, magic rocks, clocks with dots and big glorified power conditioners you have to make your own judgment because even with objective measurements shown plenty of audiophiles will still claim to hear differences that measurements don't back up. I'm not going to tell someone what they hear is wrong and while I might accept that the difference they hear exists (at the very least to them), it's up to them to make decisions based on what they want to purchase and what they prefer, regardless of the reasons (be they real and measurable or fabricated/placebo/influenced by others, etc).


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it is indeed real then something should be able to measure changes over the long stretches of time people claim to be necessary to burn in some gear, including Audio-gd. 

 I'm not much of a burn-in believer. Certainly not the very long times many people wax poetic about, but that doesn't mean there isn't some sort of change that can occur with mechanical components or even electrical ones, just that if that change happens it's likely extremely quick and some believe it reverses once the juice is cut only to happen all over again in a split second the next time the component is turned on.

 Much like cables, magic rocks, clocks with dots and big glorified power conditioners you have to make your own judgment because even with objective measurements shown plenty of audiophiles will still claim to hear differences that measurements don't back up. I'm not going to tell someone what they hear is wrong and while I might accept that the difference they hear exists (at the very least to them), it's up to them to make decisions based on what they want to purchase and what they prefer, regardless of the reasons (be they real and measurable or fabricated/placebo/influenced by others, etc)._

 

Over in the DIY Audio forum, a guy had some Oscilloscope traces to back up Caps forming up. However, they did this relatively quickly on the order of a few days I believe.


 .


----------



## csroc

Well there you go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It takes some measuring and understanding of what you're looking at to determine if there's any burn in and what it is. And even then, it's a separate matter as to whether it's audible.

 I can believe capacitors would have some sort of burn in characteristic, particularly big ones, but I would not have expected it to be several days.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well there you go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It takes some measuring and understanding of what you're looking at to determine if there's any burn in and what it is. And even then, it's a separate matter as to whether it's audible.

 I can believe capacitors would have some sort of burn in characteristic, particularly big ones, but I would not have expected it to be several days._

 

So if theres no measurable difference then I suppose burn-in is just getting accustomed to the equipment - which is also fine by me because perception is reality - if you _think_ it sounds better then it must xD

 I'd still like to see some frequency curves to see what the Compass is capable of though


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So if theres no measurable difference then I suppose burn-in is just getting accustomed to the equipment - which is also fine by me because perception is reality - if you think it sounds better then it must xD_

 

That's basically how I approach the endless silly debates about certain tweaks. If you think it sounds better, then it sounds better to you! But if you start giving other folks faulty advice they at least need to hear the other side of the story.


----------



## haloxt

I once read about a missionary who read some gospel to a group of tribal people, who naively took it at face value then told a bit of their own mythology on crop fertility to the preacher, who responded with scorn and disbelief.

 Er, I mean, don't let naysayers tell you how burn-in should work or shouldn't work or doesn't work, you have a right to believe what you want to believe, especially when it comes from subjective experience. If you can't trust yourself, then who can you trust?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, does anyone know if the Moon that came as default in the Compass has seen the same 100 hours burn-in as the rest of the unit?_

 

All default opamps went through 50 hours of burn-in before being shipped..

  Quote:


 Does that make sense to anyone else? The declared value was USD$60.4, with Kingwa's standard shipping charge of USD$65. The exchange rate used was 1.516, which should make a total value of £82.72, the VAT(15%) on which should be £12.40 if my sums are right?

 Am I missing something? Shouldn't the VAT be applied to the price charged for shipping, which was $65?? 
 

I think you should ask Kingwa to fax you an invoice with actual shipping charges, maybe that would help.

  Quote:


 So, is there any time-frame on the updated version of the compass?
 I'm sold, I just need to put in my order for one of these bad boys. 
 

Kingwa is waiting for Peete's and Curra's final impressions plus inputs from every user, so yes, tentatively end of February..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, after Googling I've concluded that because Kingwa didn't put the actual shipping charges on the invoice, they use their own pre-determined rate.

 I'll write them a letter, detailing the cost of shipping($65) and the cost of the itme on the invoice($60.4), convert them using their own conversion rate, and include a cheque for 15% of that total.

 It only makes a difference of around £6, but it's the principle of the thing to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They also added a £1.25 "administration fee". Reckon I can knock it off, under the basis of my own administration fee for having to calculate the charges, use toner and paper, and the cost of posting the letter? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 You need to move here my friend. You won't believe the stuff I've been buying from China and Nothing, Nada, Bumpkus in duties. Only time I've ever paid duties were on a Gitzo tripod from Japan and shipped via Fedex, as well as a few other Fedex deals. With 15% VAT it's no wonder they are so efficient!!


 .


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, again I ask is anyone willing to get some frequency curves up? If the burn in effect is real there should be (I think?) a slight change in frequency curve as the unit accumulates hours_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So if theres no measurable difference then I suppose burn-in is just getting accustomed to the equipment - which is also fine by me because perception is reality - if you think it sounds better then it must xD

 I'd still like to see some frequency curves to see what the Compass is capable of though_

 


 Its already been done with many other units and such. I have yet to read a scientific article or any discussion threads that proves "burn in" exists.

 But the fact that even the most amateur audio enthusiast has accepted it and observes noticable changes, tells maybe something more than placebo is going on. If you want to do this, I suggest you doing it yourself. Not an insult, but what better way to prove it to yourself, you'll have full control over the experiment, and be able to conduct it exactly the way you want it to be done.

 That and its a lot of work what you are asking for, especially considering they are already taking so much time to write reviews over different stages in the "burn in" and explaining the changes they hear. Which implies they are hearing the effects of the burn in, have no interest in conducting the experiment you are asking, especially when we know there are oodles of other threads and topics to find info about this, not just on this audio forum. So I really think, if its really important to you, maybe just buying a cheap audio gear with plenty of transistors and doing the experiment yourself. But despite this topic already being beaten to death in just about every audio forum, and like I said above, even newbies not only accept this concept, but notice changes themselves, tell me personally, something else going on that's not explained in the numbers, and I do not think its placebo. 

 That and I don't think this is the thread to discuss this. So regardless if you do this experiment and want to post your findings, I suggest doing it very carefully and in an separate thread. You probably won't like a lot of the responses you get no matter how you write your results though, lawl. Cause you are asking for a very objective discussion in a very subjective matter, how we all perceive sound and music.

 Well, as others have said before, lets stop requesting for these kind of requests. Stop asking whether there are noticeable differences with different cables of various monetary value ICs or burn in. *If the reviewer as myself have done, choose to post our impressions with IC, or burn in, we will do so.* But this thread isn't the appropriate one to discuss cable or burn in. Focus on the Compass and discuss the reviews and impressions that are given. I'll repeat not looking to pick a fight, just writing why I think this is the wrong thread to request this experiment or to discuss it.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

A quick update from today's tests centered around the preamp function....I know this feature was a last minute throw in or add on but up till now it's been the show stealer ...those of you that will be using the Compass as a front end for a system (large or small, cheap or expensive) will be more than satisfied with the Compasses amazing performance in this regard. 

 I'm literally bowled over by the results and I'm very impressed with the pre/amp section's performance today. This bodes well for the upcoming headphone evaluation section WRT overall SQ from the unit.

 Tomorrow's lineup includes the Adcom GFP-750/KHA IID/LD MK III comparisons. Another long day and a pile more notes...I have to say not once have I thought, I'm tired of listening or experiencing fatigue....another sign of good SQ IMO.

 Anyway that's the latest.

 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Sync the source SPDIF clock info to the receving is important to achieve the jitter free clock info. A good clock will make the sound becomes cleaner, more focussed and more transparent. Given the 50ps jitter clock internal at the DIR9001 of Compass/DAC100, it is already very very good. 

 What I trying to relate is the wonder of DSP which Kingwa puts in his Reference series DAC. It will completely frees jitter and ensure bit perfect clock signal being extracted, instead of that 50pS in the DIR 9001. Kudos to Kingwa. 

 (ps. well that DSP is costly investment by Kingwa too, but he is heading to the future.)


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sync the source SPDIF clock info to the receving is important to achieve the jitter free clock info. A good clock will make the sound becomes cleaner, more focussed and more transparent. Given the 50ps jitter clock internal at the DIR9001 of Compass/DAC100, it is already very very good. 

 What I trying to relate is the wonder of DSP which Kingwa puts in his Reference series DAC. It will completely frees jitter and ensure bit perfect clock signal being extracted, instead of that 50pS in the DIR 9001. Kudos to Kingwa. 

 (ps. well that DSP is costly investment by Kingwa too, but he is heading to the future.)_

 

Yeah pretty cool even in an budget component, Kingwa has demonstrated his knowledge over the impurities and issues the best high grade audio gear tries to address, and adapts them into this Compass.

 Whether its the future or not, but he's definitely trying to replicate the technology that for whatever reason, many audiophiles have agreed to the superiority of KRELL technology. But at literally 1/15th to 1/30th of the price of the KRELL. Which really impresses me in his knowledge of his products and others. As we have seen in this audio industry, once someone is good at something, they keep doing it and rarely change as it would logically seem, adopting new technology and methods, but getting the same quality of sound people expect is too much effort, difficult and risky (potential backlash from current customers and failure), especially since its the music coming out the equipment listeners care about the most. Not the technology involved.

 And its pretty cool all the information Kingwa has made available about the DSP, everything from explaining what it does, why he adopted the technology and how his in particular functions huh?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its already been done with many other units and such. There is no scientific proof of burn in._

 

On the contrary, it's known that the materials in electrical components such as transistors and capacitors change during their life. What you were saying is, you've not read anything on the net showing conclusive proof, not that there isn't any.

 I guess the period where the treble on all three opamps was seriously rolled off never happened, despite a number of people having experienced it.

 Think carefully before you write a reply to this please, if you write one.


----------



## mbd2884

I'll admit I haven't read all of em or the ones you are referring to. I also admit I don't care as I have noticed the changes myself, which I don't think are explained in the numbers in the very few articles I read. And every article I did read said there wasn't scientific proof of burn-in. I changed my posting to satisfy you hopefully....

 But I don't care to argue about this either Curra, nor do I think this is the thread to discuss this anyways.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Another important notation to report.

 Seems I misunderstood the gain settings vs SNR. Kingwa set me straight ...the lower the gain the better the SNR becomes. Makes sense.

 I said the opposite. I'm wrong of course. 

 Sorry about that.

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Hello,
 I usually look over Audio-gd every day to see if there are any updates. While looking tonight at the Compass page I noticed a GLARING oversight in the development. I am amazed that with all the Audiophile experience we have here we missed something so rudimentary and essential.
 You guys have been busy reading Chipset datasheets, debating the SQ of HDAMs, mulling over Jumper settings, Phono Jack Specs, and guess what you missed?

 THERE IS NO 10,000 LUMEN BLUE LED ON THE FRONT!!

 Now how can that be? This product has no chance of being taken seriously...


 .


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,
 I usually look over Audio-gd every day to see if there are any updates. While looking tonight at the Compass page I noticed a GLARING oversight in the development. I am amazed that with all the Audiophile experience we have here we missed something so rudimentary and essential.
 You guys have been busy reading Chipset datasheets, debating the SQ of HDAMs, mulling over Jumper settings, Phono Jack Specs, and guess what you missed?

 THERE IS NO 10,000 LUMEN BLUE LED ON THE FRONT!!

 Now how can that be? This product has no chance of being taken seriously...


 ._

 

LawL, I have no idea what you are talking about, I mean none at all. But I can say, I like my blue LED on the Compass. Its a nice blue, but on the lighter shade, its small, and when I look at it, has that star shine appearance to it. Its not glaring, and or take away from the appearance from the rest of the Compass, just adds more to it.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A quick update from today's tests centered around the preamp function....I know this feature was a last minute throw in or add on but up till now it's been the show stealer ...those of you that will be using the Compass as a front end for a system (large or small, cheap or expensive) will be more than satisfied with the Compasses amazing performance in this regard. 

 I'm literally bowled over by the results and I'm very impressed with the pre/amp section's performance today. This bodes well for the upcoming headphone evaluation section WRT overall SQ from the unit.

 Tomorrow's lineup includes the Adcom GFP-750/KHA IID/LD MK III comparisons. Another long day and a pile more notes...I have to say not once have I thought, I'm tired of listening or experiencing fatigue....another sign of good SQ IMO.

 Anyway that's the latest.

 Peete._

 

Great to hear Peete. I agree about the fatigue, I can't get enough even after the two week period is over. I still sit here really late at night and run myself to giving myself only 4 minutes to run catch the train in the morning for work. Listening to the Compass is horrible if you are looking to get some sleep or have a deadline to make. Distraction at its best.

 Would like to add I really love this volume pot method Kingwa used. Its so smooth there is no clicking, and the volume increase isn't in increments, its smooth as you turn the dial, and you hear absolutely no distortion as you increase or decrease it. And there is such control and distortion free sound from this unit, that even at extreme high volumes, the music is just delicious. So many other audio gear I have used the music starts to sound horrific at higher volumes, course just means that I haven't owned any other headphone amps close to the Compass.
 - So this is a caution, don't get carried away as you can and probably will, and soon blow up your ears if not careful,


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Reminds me of a review of another piece of gear where the author after powering the unit up said "Apparently subtle blue led in China does not exist" ...






 Peete.


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reminds me of a review of another piece of gear where the author after powering the unit up said "Apparently subtle blue led in China does not exist" ...






 Peete._

 

Hahahaa
 I have an LED like that on my volume switch for my speakers, finally had to tape it over


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want to do this, I suggest you doing it yourself. Not an insult, but what better way to prove it to yourself, you'll have full control over the experiment, and be able to conduct it exactly the way you want it to be done._

 

If I had a unit I would. Probably should have done it on my current SVDAC05 but okay I'll post up the curves using RMAA when I get a Compass, its not very hard. I just thought it'd be interesting to see if there would be a change in the curves, it has been suggested by others that it doesn't.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* 
_That and its a lot of work what you are asking for, especially considering they are already taking so much time to write reviews over different stages in the "burn in" and explaining the changes they hear. Which implies they are hearing the effects of the burn in, have no interest in conducting the experiment you are asking, especially when we know there are oodles of other threads and topics to find info about this, not just on this audio forum. _

 

Well if people are willing to swap out plugs and cables, I don't see how connecting a 3.5mm interconnect from the headphone out of the Compass and into the line-in of a soundcard/even integrated sound then running RMAA would be much work really 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. You'd only have to do it every say 200 hours perhaps. No one ever expressed no interest in fufilling my request, and in putting it that way you've just assumed that everyone with a Compass unit believes in burn-in which could be wrong. 

 When I do get my Compass I probably will post curves - I also suspect that the curves over time would be pretty much identical and that only me as the listener who has changed and become more sensitive. I have noticed this with my SVDAC05. Furthermore, originally, I was just interested in what the output of the Compass was like - and even before that it was Curra who had come up with the idea

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* 
_That and I don't think this is the thread to discuss this._

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but we did spend several pages discussing how Audio-GD gear improves with burn-in?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* 
_Focus on the Compass and discuss the reviews and impressions that are given. I'll repeat not looking to pick a fight, just writing why I think this is the wrong thread to request this experiment or to discuss it._

 

Not picking a fight either. I only requested frequency curves, plus, someone else already mentioned in this thread that perhaps we should test units with a different number of hours on them to see if we can hear this burn-in effect


----------



## Tyson

The history of high end audio is littered with things that engineering types have said "don't matter", only to find out that they do. For example, take jitter. First, it was claimed that jitter did not exist, that digital playback was "perfect". Then it was claimed that (while jitter does in fact exist), it is too low to hear and simply does not matter. Finally, we now know that not only does jitter exist, but that it does matter. Burn in is no different.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reminds me of a review of another piece of gear where the author after powering the unit up said "Apparently subtle blue led in China does not exist" ...






 Peete._

 

Haha. Blue LEDs were one thing I didn't like about the Rotel gear when I purchased my NAD components. NAD uses nice subdued amber LEDs.

 The blue LED on the Compass really is nice though, it's not obnoxious at all, instead it just provides a dim little indicator that it's on.

 I actually installed 3 blue LEDs in the Millet Starving Student I built but two just add some light to the tubes themselves from beneath and the other shines through the headphone jack when nothing is plugged in but the unit is on, so it's not annoying at all. Usually I hate blue LEDs but in both these cases they're done right IMO.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tyson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The history of high end audio is littered with things that engineering types have said "don't matter", only to find out that they do. For example, take jitter. First, it was claimed that jitter did not exist, that digital playback was "perfect". Then it was claimed that (while jitter does in fact exist), it is too low to hear and simply does not matter. Finally, we now know that not only does jitter exist, but that it does matter. Burn in is no different._

 

For what it's worth not everything has been tested to provide comprehensive proof about a lot of issues in audio. For every extreme opinion that every little tweak matters, no matter how ridiculous, there needs to be the engineer/scientist to say none of it matters. The truth on some things will show it does matter depending on the magnitude of the issue and for other things it doesn't. I haven't seen much of significance showing burn-in to be reliably true but I do believe it exists in certain components however without being able to properly ABX things myself I only take that as a hunch for certain things. I cannot say what audible implications that may have though. Human hearing memory for many things is quite poor, and hearing is very impressionable by our own opinion and what we read or hear from others so it's a tricky thing to try to make sighted comparisons since they're rather unreliable. Oh well... makes for interesting debates.


----------



## decayed.cell

I never denied the existence of burn-in, only suggested that we might be able to objectively rule out the a significant change within the unit using the curves, which would suggest that it is only the listener changing


----------



## sandchak

I always had this question in mind, and never came up with in public because I thought maybe it was too silly - but now since we are talking about sound differences from example burn-in and things like that..

 I am asking myself, since we are all looking it from the scientific angle, my question is how much does science really know about human body and all the complexities that it holds, I mean does science really have 100% knowledge the way our body or senses function - so I just feel maybe there is lot to be unraveled unlike a piece of machine we make with our own hands..

 Maybe that is the reason I just sit and enjoy as I perceive the difference - I take it as a something happening that neither science approves or has the complete authority to disapprove..

 Well, like I said, it might sound really stupid - so pardon me if it does and just ignore this post..


----------



## csroc

I don't think science has the answer about everything our body does, particularly the brain for instance. But there has been a lot of study of our visual and auditory perception. And of course even with what science doesn't know an ABX test can at least tell us a lot about what science has perhaps yet to learn WRT to various audio questions.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think science has the answer about everything our body does, particularly the brain for instance. But there has been a lot of study of our visual and auditory perception. And of course even with what science doesn't know an ABX test can at least tell us a lot about what science has perhaps yet to learn WRT to various audio questions._

 


 Audiophilia is pretty much learned. There may be some "born with it", but these are a few every Millenia or so. You have to learn to listen, it is not a purely anatomical and physiological function.


 .


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audiophilia is pretty much learned. There may be some "born with it", but these are a few every Millenia or so. You have to learn to listen, it is not a purely anatomical and physiological function.


 ._

 

Of course. One can learn to identify the faults in a speaker just by listening just as one could identify the era a photograph was taken by observation or how an engine is running just by listening, one can learn "perfect" pitch or one could learn how to judge light levels for exposure without a light meter. Learning however cannot overcome physiological limitations though.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,
 I usually look over Audio-gd every day to see if there are any updates. While looking tonight at the Compass page I noticed a GLARING oversight in the development. I am amazed that with all the Audiophile experience we have here we missed something so rudimentary and essential.
 You guys have been busy reading Chipset datasheets, debating the SQ of HDAMs, mulling over Jumper settings, Phono Jack Specs, and guess what you missed?

 THERE IS NO 10,000 LUMEN BLUE LED ON THE FRONT!!

 Now how can that be? This product has no chance of being taken seriously...


 ._

 

I'm going to ask for red in my Compass if it's possible.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm going to ask for red in my Compass if it's possible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have one more suggestion:

 How about some noodles instead of cables????..


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have one more suggestion:

 How about some noodles instead of cables????..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haha, I see what you did there. Maybe that particular cable is edible for all we know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Btw, chinese lamian noodle is indeed very delicious!


----------



## csroc

I don't think I want to eat my Compass!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


 I'm literally bowled over by the results and I'm very impressed with the pre/amp section's performance today. This bodes well for the upcoming headphone evaluation section WRT overall SQ from the unit. 
 

This is music to my ears, the preamp was as important as the HP section for me - but I hear another preamp, compass size may be out as early as this month end, it would be an upgrade to P1 with upgradeable modules, in any case I am sure by what Peete says, Compass should itself serve as a good preamp..

 Although I must confess the first time I tried the preamp section, I wasn't that impressed, it was too loud and edgy.. then I was asked to listen at 13db gain and not 19db - that changed the story altogether..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, after Googling I've concluded that because Kingwa didn't put the actual shipping charges on the invoice, they use their own pre-determined rate.

 I'll write them a letter, detailing the cost of shipping($65) and the cost of the itme on the invoice($60.4), convert them using their own conversion rate, and include a cheque for 15% of that total._

 

So, would it be better for Kingwa to include a clear invoice with his declared price? Might be useful information for him.

 There was a story on the Compass page (it's gone now, I believe) about a Spanish(?) customer who had to pay about 35 euros to get his Compass. (A few euros less than I had to pay.) And Kingwa added again that in such a case you should refuse to accept the package and contact him. That's all good and well, but the problem is, of course, that in a lot of cases (such as mine) you have to pay the DHL driver to receive your package. You can refuse, and refusal may in the end result in lower tax charges, but you will be without your Compass (or other product) for probably a few weeks at least. I think in a lot of cases it's better to just go along with it and pay what they ask.

 But it would be nice if Kingwa could find a way to make us pay somewhat reduced taxes.

 However it may be, it hasn't in the least reduced my satisfaction about the Compass. And this thing just keeps getting better and better with time.


----------



## sandchak

Actually I have been taking up this issue with Kingwa since this morning, his point is that he can only mention the price of the product in the invoice, because the shipping charges are calculated by the courier when it is weighed in the location of the Express courier, so there is no way he can include the shipping cost in the invoice..


----------



## WC Annihilus

If I were to buy this (and I think there's a pretty good chance I will with the next batch), I would likely be having it sent here at my college, meaning it would be first going through the college mailroom. Would that still work out fine? Those of you who have gotten this in the US, did you have to pay any customs at all? I must confess, I'm not very familiar with international shipping at all


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another important notation to report.

 Seems I misunderstood the gain settings vs SNR. Kingwa set me straight ...the lower the gain the better the SNR becomes. Makes sense.

 I said the opposite. I'm wrong of course. 

 Sorry about that.

 Peete._

 

I was gonna say something, but you seem like such a nice guy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


http://www.head-fi.org/forums/images...ilies/wink.gif


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I always had this question in mind, and never came up with in public because I thought maybe it was too silly - but now since we are talking about sound differences from example burn-in and things like that..

 I am asking myself, since we are all looking it from the scientific angle, my question is how much does science really know about human body and all the complexities that it holds, I mean does science really have 100% knowledge the way our body or senses function - so I just feel maybe there is lot to be unraveled unlike a piece of machine we make with our own hands..

 Maybe that is the reason I just sit and enjoy as I perceive the difference - I take it as a something happening that neither science approves or has the complete authority to disapprove..

 Well, like I said, it might sound really stupid - so pardon me if it does and just ignore this post.._

 

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE MUSIC I HEAR IN THE COMPASS.

 I COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT SOME DUMBASS GRAPH OF MY COMPASS BURN IN

 5 hours after I went to bed, what am I doing, loving Tiesto (Featuring Christan Burns) - In The Dark.

 MMmm

 About shipping, maybe just switch to lovely FedEx? I haven't had to pay any customs as of yet, US. No extra fees.


----------



## Joeoboe

Slightly off topic, but since there has been so much discussion of how we hear, there is an awesome book on this subject:
 Music, the Brain, and Ecstasy by Robert Jourdain. This can get a bit deep into the subject, but it sounds like many of you are asking the questions answered in this book.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE MUSIC I HEAR IN THE COMPASS.

 I COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT SOME DUMBASS GRAPH OF MY COMPASS BURN IN

 5 hours after I went to bed, what am I doing, loving Tiesto (Featuring Christan Burns) - In The Dark._

 

Settle down, we're all enjoying our Compass. It's just that some of us have the scientific mindset that wonders how many of the changes that we're hearing are demonstrable. If you don't get that, just ignore it.

 I doubt FedEx will do much good, or any other courier service. They will all go through the same customs procedure. Using ordinary postal service might make a difference, they are only sometimes slammed with taxes (here, at least). Oh, and the fact that you didn't have to pay taxes has more to do with the fact that you don't pay VAT in the USA.

 Ugh, Tiesto. Worst Dutch export after Heineken! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Just teasing.)


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Slightly off topic, but since there has been so much discussion of how we hear, there is an awesome book on this subject:
 Music, the Brain, and Ecstasy by Robert Jourdain. This can get a bit deep into the subject, but it sounds like many of you are asking the questions answered in this book._

 

That sounds like something to put on the reading list. Thanks.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Settle down, we're all enjoying our Compass. It's just that some of us have the scientific mindset that wonders how many of the changes that we're hearing are demonstrable. If you don't get that, just ignore it.

 I doubt FedEx will do much good, or any other courier service. They will all go through the same customs procedure. Using ordinary postal service might make a difference, they are only sometimes slammed with taxes (here, at least). Oh, and the fact that you didn't have to pay taxes has more to do with the fact that you don't pay VAT in the USA.

 Ugh, Tiesto. Worst Dutch export after Heineken! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (Just teasing.)_

 

Still better than Van Burren 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not the biggest fan of Tiesto, but his Nyana album is classic, Elements of Life I think is good, Just Be not too shabby, and In Search of Sunrise 4 and 7 I like.

 I'm not a Trance expert, I just like listening to it, currently Sander Kleinenberg (Another Dutch, I swear NL must be the capital of Trance) is on my list to know better, I have two of his stuff so far.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still better than Van Burren 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not the biggest fan of Tiesto, but his Nyana album is classic, Elements of Life I think is good, Just Be not too shabby, and In Search of Sunrise 4 and 7 I like._

 

Haha, I believe you. I was just saying something nonsensical about music I know nothing about. (I was serious about Heineken though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## haloxt

The blue led is not set too forward so its beam of light is very narrow and doesn't illuminate a room. Amazing engineering .

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not picking a fight either. I only requested frequency curves, plus, someone else already mentioned in this thread that perhaps we should test units with a different number of hours on them to see if we can hear this burn-in effect_

 

To clarify, I was just making a guess that MAYBE a piece of audio equipment will have changed readings on RMAA over time and use, when I referenced "burn-in" I primarily meant interval of time. Because even if it does, we'd be guessing again whether or not that is indicative of burn-in unless the results are correlated with the subjective "hearing-test" observation of burn-in (this would take many painstaking tests to prove). And if it doesn't, that wouldn't necessarily disprove burn-in, as you seem to be suggesting, because the human ear can hear things that RMAA can't measure like Peete said.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not much of a burn-in believer. Certainly not the very long times many people wax poetic about, but that doesn't mean there isn't some sort of change that can occur with mechanical components or even electrical ones, just that if that change happens it's likely extremely quick and some believe it reverses once the juice is cut only to happen all over again in a split second the next time the component is turned on._

 

My thoughts were EXACTLY like yours, for a very long time. Then this happened...

Designing an alternative to the Zero DAC/amp -- Now it has a name: The Audio-gd Compass - Page 72 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 The difference between the two units was totally mind-blowing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Doorknob

It seems that electronics are out there to annoy me till we replace it with mechanical parts.

 I was just about finished typing out my impression in my notepad until some odd anti virus program I've never seen suddenly pops up in my computer screen. Being slightly knowledge-able about these happening, I fumbled for my mouse and proceeded to quit the program, only to suddenly turn my computer off. And there it is, an OS where it won't even allow you to go into safe mode and anything else.

 Last time this happened I had a scheduled day to make my first backup drive somewhere else only to have that day crush my hopes by sending an error message everytime I try to login.

 Anyway, yes, the impressions will take longer then originally planned, with me still having to format my primary computer (I'm using some other ancient computer) and until I format my computer and get everything started up and running again, the impression will have to wait for a while.

 This means that I have just lost my notepad full of impressions and almost written review itself. However I will someday and sometime get that impression out hopefully before two weeks ends. However this time, I will probably be able to compare the Compass with both the Moon and Earth on neutral.

 So in a sense, yes, I'll get it done, I just don't know when.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My thoughts were EXACTLY like yours, for a very long time. Then this happened...

Designing an alternative to the Zero DAC/amp -- Now it has a name: The Audio-gd Compass - Page 72 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 The difference between the two units was totally mind-blowing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

As I've said I am not saying burn in is impossible in certain circumstances. I may find something that demonstrates it quite clearly for me, but much of the time that is not the case. Of course your experience is no real conclusive proof for it either. You could be hearing those differences legitimately or just think you do. While you could test that it would be a rather laborious and obnoxious process so I say just keep enjoying it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And unless Kingwa gives me a new Earth to test down the road I will likely never know in this particular case since I doubt I'll buy another just to find out. And I wouldn't have great confidences in my (or anyone's) ability to tell the differences due to the rather long listening delay due to having to power down and swap out the OPA.


----------



## Sganzerla

Doorknob, I feel for you.
 I learned once that one should backup unfinished texts on e-mail too.

 One more thing, when I asked about this amp being capable of driving K701 it was because there were many ocasions where I read people saying they didn't know how capable this headphone could be when 'proper' amped, even when they tought everything was right.

 I think at the end of the week will post my impressions about K701 and Compass, because it looks like it is changing its sound to a more natural one, with less brightness, and to me looks like it started to happen around 200 hours (some time after Joe impressions), the reason to my question.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of course your experience is no real conclusive proof for it either. You could be hearing those differences legitimately or just think you do._

 

I went into it expecting to hear no difference. The differences when comparing the units side-by-side, multiple times, were as clear as listening to a smooth, running engine, then pulling a spark plug lead off.

 We aren't talking about small changes here, the kind that take effort to pick out. The difference would be noticeable to anyone on here on a repeatable basis.

 ETA - powering down to change the OPA module takes seconds. Literally 10 or less.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*snip*And if it doesn't, that wouldn't necessarily disprove burn-in, as you seem to be suggesting, because the human ear can hear things that RMAA can't measure like Peete said._

 

Hence I had changed my last post to include significant


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, after Googling I've concluded that because Kingwa didn't put the actual shipping charges on the invoice, they use their own pre-determined rate.

 I'll write them a letter, detailing the cost of shipping($65) and the cost of the itme on the invoice($60.4), convert them using their own conversion rate, and include a cheque for 15% of that total.

 It only makes a difference of around £6, but it's the principle of the thing to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They also added a £1.25 "administration fee". Reckon I can knock it off, under the basis of my own administration fee for having to calculate the charges, use toner and paper, and the cost of posting the letter? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm feeling your pain on this one Phewl... I recently ordered a HotAudio40 portable headphone amp for my girlfriend for her Birthday later this month and the declared value (including P&P) was $70 USD. An invoice got delivered here by Royal Mail (they wouldn't post before payment sneaky devils!). But the best part is: 

 VAT - £8 (almost £1 too much by my calculations)
 Administration fee - £6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You what!?

 its fine really Mr Royal Mail.... you just go rounding up to the next £1 and charge me some figure plucked out of thin air for "administration fee".... its fine really I don't mind. Obviously those were examples of sentences not emanating from my mouth when I received the Invoice


----------



## AudioPhewl

That administration fee is most unfair. DHL bunged on a fee of £1.25, which I think is very reasonable, considering they:-

 1. Pay the taxes initially.
 2. Raise an invoice.
 3. Attach photocopies of all transit documentation.
 4. Mail it to me.
 5. Deal with the payment I mail back to them.

 I'm perfectly happy to pay them £1.25 for the above. As for Royal Fail... possibly go into a Post Orifice with a shotgun, and demand the cashier gives you the £6 back, plus your own "handling fee" of £6... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 ~Phewl.


----------



## D.C.

Guys I understood somewhere that the power supply in the DAC100 is better than the one in the Compass. Is it possible to ask for an upgrade of the power supply...I am not sure if it brings any noticeable changes to SQ but why not. I don't mind paying a bit extra since I'll be saving on the external sound card i was planning to get anyway. 
 Oh may be this info could be useful to some of you that want to ship to the UK...I never paid duty tax with DHL bud FedEx burned me a couple of times. It's for the queen they said...lol


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm feeling your pain on this one Phewl... I recently ordered a HotAudio40 portable headphone amp for my girlfriend for her Birthday later this month and the declared value (including P&P) was $70 USD. An invoice got delivered here by Royal Mail (they wouldn't post before payment sneaky devils!). But the best part is: 

 VAT - £8 (almost £1 too much by my calculations)
 Administration fee - £6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You what!?

 its fine really Mr Royal Mail.... you just go rounding up to the next £1 and charge me some figure plucked out of thin air for "administration fee".... its fine really I don't mind. Obviously those were examples of sentences not emanating from my mouth when I received the Invoice_

 

I have to say that something called "The Royal Mail", well now that just sounds expensive doesn't it!!






 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That administration fee is most unfair. DHL bunged on a fee of £1.25, which I think is very reasonable, considering they:-

 1. Pay the taxes initially.
 2. Raise an invoice.
 3. Attach photocopies of all transit documentation.
 4. Mail it to me.
 5. Deal with the payment I mail back to them.

 I'm perfectly happy to pay them £1.25 for the above. As for Royal Fail... possibly go into a Post Orifice with a shotgun, and demand the cashier gives you the £6 back, plus your own "handling fee" of £6... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 ~Phewl._

 


 Yeah buddy, well try to pull that Crap over here in one of our Post Offices. You pull a gun out and our Postal Workers will go "Postal" on you real Fast!!


 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys I understood somewhere that the power supply in the DAC100 is better than the one in the Compass. Is it possible to ask for an upgrade of the power supply...I am not sure if it brings any noticeable changes to SQ but why not. I don't mind paying a bit extra since I'll be saving on the external sound card i was planning to get anyway. 
 Oh may be this info could be useful to some of you that want to ship to the UK...I never paid duty tax with DHL bud FedEx burned me a couple of times. It's for the queen they said...lol_

 

The PSU in the Compass is outstanding.

 Peete.


----------



## garfnon

I might have to look into getting one of these judging from the rep that audio-gd has here. Stuck with my cmoy at the moment...


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys I understood somewhere that the power supply in the DAC100 is better than the one in the Compass. Is it possible to ask for an upgrade of the power supply...I am not sure if it brings any noticeable changes to SQ but why not. I don't mind paying a bit extra since I'll be saving on the external sound card i was planning to get anyway. 
 Oh may be this info could be useful to some of you that want to ship to the UK...I never paid duty tax with DHL bud FedEx burned me a couple of times. It's for the queen they said...lol_

 

I am not picking a fight. But thing is, it starts here. Then someone says can we ask for this upgrade. Then this upgrade. And soon the Compass is not longer what it was designed to be. That and it becomes increasingly more and more work from Kingwa and none of the impressions or reviews have said the PSU for the Compass is lacking and needs to be upgraded. It should be hypothetically, oh noes, the bass is completely lacking. There is none, hey Kingwa you need to address this important issue.

 The idea is to give feedback on what needs to be changed, not what we want to be changed without any good reason for it. Custom DACs, Amplifiers isn't just hey I'm willing to pay extra. Its you have to pay for the labor of removing the PSU, pay for the new PSU, pay for the labor of the new PSU, then you get charge a hefty fee just because its a custom job. There is a reason why custom DACs, Amps are so costly, and why most companies just flat out won't do it, refuse. Just look at the outrageous prices of SinglePower. Even Rockhopper doesn't do custom jobs often, its hey I got this M^3 done, who wants it, not hey I want to do M^3, what do you want in it?

 At least that's my opinion on what it means to ask for a custom job, and what this evaluation period for the Compass should be about. Course there is the option, if its really a bother to you, I don't think it would be hard to replace it yourself considering Kingwa has released the schematics for the Compass anyhow.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

No need whatsoever for a PSU change. It's excellent, period.


 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No need whatsoever for a PSU change. It's excellent, period.


 Peete._

 

Well there is the definitive answer I been looking for to a question, just in general!!!

 Anyways, sorry to hear the Doorknob, considering I think you were one of the first to get the Compass and really got the rest of us excited for the arrival of our own. Good luck with fixing your comp.


----------



## csroc

If you've noticed on the Compass page on the Audio-gd site Kingwa wants feedback on the front panel button currently used for Super. He also asks about the gain settings.

 I have created a web survey where you can fill out with your answers:
Audio-gd front panel button poll


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you've noticed on the Compass page on the Audio-gd site Kingwa wants feedback on the front panel button currently used for Super. He also asks about the gain settings.

 I have created a web survey where you can fill out with your answers:
Audio-gd front panel button poll_

 

Thanks


----------



## csroc

blah blah


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not picking a fight. But thing is, it starts here. Then someone says can we ask for this upgrade. Then this upgrade. And soon the Compass is not longer what it was designed to be. That and it becomes increasingly more and more work from Kingwa and none of the impressions or reviews have said the PSU for the Compass is lacking and needs to be upgraded. It should be hypothetically, oh noes, the bass is completely lacking. There is none, hey Kingwa you need to address this important issue._

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. Already the Compass is a bit more expensive than what I'd hoped, even being sold essentially at cost price. However, it's such a great unit and so flexible in what it can do that it's well worth stretching one's budget to, and will be very costly to find something anywhere near as flexible that can beat it.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Man, I can't wait for V2 to come out. I really should take this time to scrape up some funds though. Anyone want to buy a D2 boa?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you've hit the nail on the head here. Already the Compass is a bit more expensive than what I'd hoped, even being sold essentially at cost price. However, it's such a great unit and so flexible in what it can do that it's well worth stretching one's budget to, and will be very costly to find something anywhere near as flexible that can beat it._

 

X 10 

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

I see myself reloading this page time and again.. may be I am expecting one of the long awaited review of Compass !!..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see myself reloading this page time and again.. may be I am expecting one of the long awaited review of Compass !!.._

 

Considering Sganzerla's report of significant changes after 200 hours (less brightness? I don't want less brightness!), it will be a while before I can write mine.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Considering Sganzerla's report of significant changes after 200 hours (less brightness? I don't want less brightness!), it will be a while before I can write mine._

 

Yes, I believe things change as time passes by.. I am awaiting yours too.. but at the moment, I see Peete online at a very odd time (usually he isn't on so late..) and I am kind of expecting his review.. all the more because at least one of my immediate purchase will be based on his review of Compass as preamp - I do not have a system right now to really evaluate that part, but I am in the process of upgrading my entire system - so his views will surely impact my spendings and decisions..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sorry Sandchak.....I haven't completed all the listening evaluations and comparisons to other amps on hand yet. I'm working on it though...day and night it would seem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I figure I'm 75% done overall, just a couple of things left to do (LD MK III head amp vs Compass head amp and Adcom GFP-750 pre vs Compass pre into ref rig) before editing the notes and doing the formal write up.

 I know it's late ...I better head off to bed.

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I believe things change as time passes by.. I am awaiting yours too.. but at the moment, I see Peete online at a very odd time (usually he isn't on so late..) and I am kind of expecting his review.. all the more because at least one of my immediate purchase will be based on his review of Compass as preamp - I do not have a system right now to really evaluate that part, but I am in the process of upgrading my entire system - so his views will surely impact my spendings and decisions.._

 

Yes, Peete's review is promising to be epic, a veritable magnum opus. Good reading for those long dark winter evenings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Must be a hell of a job typing it all up.

 I guess my review would be less relevant to you, because it will probably focus mainly on comparison with the Corda Opera. Good DAC/Amp benchmark, I think (and originally at about 4 to 5 times the price of the Compass, or 2 to 3 times when adjusting for Compass non-promotional price). And (to wet your appetite) I really doubt it will be an unfair comparison.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry Sandchak.....I haven't completed all the listening evaluations and comparisons to other amps on hand yet. I'm working on it though...day and night it would seem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I figure I'm 75% done overall, just a couple of things left to do (LD MK III head amp vs Compass head amp and Adcom GFP-750 pre vs Compass pre into ref rig) before editing the notes and doing the formal write up.

 I know it's late ...I better head off to bed.

 Peete._

 

First of all, Thank you for carrying out such a comprehensive review of Compass. Now I am like - do I read correctly?? you are comparing Compass Pre amp with ADCOM GFP-750, I understand that Adcom preamp was released sometime in the fag end of 1990s and cost around 1.5 grands and although technology maybe better now, I recollect in those times, the preamp was so freakin good that some people compared it to the Mark Levison No 380S which cost a whopping 6 grands !!.. Man, even if compass with all its recent technology is half as good as it, its going to stay put in my system for quite sometime to come!!..
 Anyway, thanks for letting me know the status, I'll do something else - but yes, I am already thrilled !!..


  Quote:


 I guess my review would be less relevant to you, because it will probably focus mainly on comparison with the Corda Opera. Good DAC/Amp benchmark, I think (and originally at about 4 to 5 times the price of the Compass). And (to wet your appetite), I really doubt it will be an unfair comparison. 
 

Thats not true - to me every review is as interesting because there is many things I might fail to realize, what some one else does, and also the fact that you have something in your possession and you are putting it up against something that cost 4-5 times more, to me it sounds like it will be a true test for Compass and very interesting read..


----------



## oldschool

How about changing 'Ear Out' to 'Phones' / 'Headphone' or s.th. like that?

 Ear Out sounds funny..

 I'd also suggest the gain swith to be front with 'High' and 'Low' setting, as IMO this will be more frequently used than the bypass / pre-amp


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That administration fee is most unfair. DHL bunged on a fee of £1.25, which I think is very reasonable, considering they:-

 1. Pay the taxes initially.
 2. Raise an invoice.
 3. Attach photocopies of all transit documentation.
 4. Mail it to me.
 5. Deal with the payment I mail back to them.

 I'm perfectly happy to pay them £1.25 for the above. As for Royal Fail... possibly go into a Post Orifice with a shotgun, and demand the cashier gives you the £6 back, plus your own "handling fee" of £6... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 ~Phewl._

 

Ha ha! What would you do if you heard on the lunchtime news that a 26 Y.O. male from Swansea had gone into a post office with a shotgun and demanded £6? Although technically it would be £8 as I was wrong about the amounts they charged me! It was actually £8 adminstration fee and £6 VAT. 

 I reckon that extra £2 could be enough to send me "postal"..... now where's me shotgun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can just see it now "Sorry officer, but AudioPhewl told me to do it!"


----------



## D.C.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The PSU in the Compass is outstanding.

 Peete._

 

Thanks Peete


----------



## Currawong

Reminds me I need to get off my arse and write up a review. Being sick hasn't helped.


----------



## Joeoboe

Regarding the single silver button options, it occurs to me that it really depends on the individual user. If you a using only digital sources with one set of headphones and no external amp, then you might never need, the bypass, preamp OR gain switch. 
 If you are using it with an analog source as well as some digital sources, you would likely prefer having the bypass switch to enable you to switch to the line inputs. This would also be the case, if you were using it as a source in a traditional hifi setup.
 If you are using an external amp to power speakers as well as using it for headphone listening, then you would like to see the preamp switch on the front panel so you can easily switch between the speakers and the headphones.
 If youare using the Compass with a variety of headphones with varying impeedences and sensitivities, you wouljd prefer to have the gain switch.
 Now I would personally prefer a switch to engage Soft 2.

*Here is a cool idea:*
 What if Kingwa labels this switch "Option" and internally is just a pigtail with two connects. The end user could plug it into whichever option he/she wished. This it would be easily customizable without making custom orders. I know this would be directly possible with the Soft 2 or 1 setting right now, and would also work with the gain setting. We would need pins for the preamp out function and the bypass function.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reminds me I need to get off my arse and write up a review. Being sick hasn't helped._

 

I know how it can be having caught the flu bug myself, at one point, no matter Earth, Moon or Sun - it all sounded like noise and headache to me !!.. Glad to know you are feeling better..

  Quote:


 How about changing 'Ear Out' to 'Phones' / 'Headphone' or s.th. like that? 
 

Yes, kind of sounds like detachable ears (although I'll be keeping mine as it makes no difference to me).. but I think Kingwa had initially ordered 100 printed chassis to keep his costing down, and if my maths isn't too bad, he has at the moment 100 - 18 - 3 (these 3 were made just in case some Compass were lost during shipment), that is 79 chassis in stock, so maybe he would like to get those rolling out before getting fresh chassis with headphones/bypass or whatever seems more proper printed.

 Btw, in between he had listed those 3 Compass in his Chinese forum and it sold in 30mins !!.. so my guess is that, maybe he will push the ear out/super Compass to the Local market (I am sure they wouldn't mind) and order fresh chassis for International market.

  Quote:


 If u see the latest Compass thread at audio-gd, the RCA plug upgrade looks like Gilded pure OFC copper. these plugs costs a lot of $$$. 
 

Nothing to do with audio, but I personally like the looks of 24K gold, its softer and more yellow than shiny golden - you are right it looks very well crafted..


----------



## ccschua

If u see the latest Compass thread at audio-gd, the RCA plug upgrade looks like Gilded pure OFC copper. these plugs costs a lot of $$$.


----------



## mbd2884

I would suggest to Kingwa, just remove Ear Out completely. Don't need it to say Headphones either, less writing the better IMO.

 Remove Selector, if you have those input choices, its already implied its a selector. And using a different font and smaller would improve its appearance also.


----------



## mbd2884

New power cables are arriving today. Damn that was fast.

 We made this last night, Kim-Bap. It came out great, we also made korean barbecue Bulgogi. Honestly, Korean food trumps all other Asian foods easily for both appearance and taste.








 Guess what I'm having for lunch? We actually have another two rolls uncut in the fridge, lawl.

 Used my new Shibazi knife, its larger and more impressive than any of the knives they have on their website. Can't find a picture of it, but its larger than my previous knife too. Its full steel from end to the handle, one peice design and damn its sharp. It cut the Kim-Bap like it was nothing, and anyone can tell you, takes a very sharp knife to cut Sushi so smoothly, yet this is strong enough to cut your arm right off, clean through the bone. I love my new knife, love it as much as the Compass.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would suggest to Kingwa, just remove Ear Out completely. Don't need it to say Headphones either, less writing the better IMO.

 Remove Selector, if you have those input choices, its already implied its a selector. And using a different font and smaller would improve its appearance also._

 

I agree.. lesser the better, and in both cases it seems implied.

 Are you sure you are going to eat all that by yourself ???..


----------



## Crikey

I'd have to disagree to Korean Food trumping all other asian food. I'd say Chinese food trumps all other asian food 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The variety is just astonishing and the taste is delicious as well.

 Back on topic before we go off on another tangent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Has there been any comparisons out yet that compare the custom power cables with the stock ones provided? I've seen people mention power cables but I don't think there's been any real comparisons between the 2 (or at least from what I've read so far). Thanks


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Regarding the single silver button options, it occurs to me that it really depends on the individual user. If you a using only digital sources with one set of headphones and no external amp, then you might never need, the bypass, preamp OR gain switch. 
 If you are using it with an analog source as well as some digital sources, you would likely prefer having the bypass switch to enable you to switch to the line inputs. This would also be the case, if you were using it as a source in a traditional hifi setup.
 If you are using an external amp to power speakers as well as using it for headphone listening, then you would like to see the preamp switch on the front panel so you can easily switch between the speakers and the headphones.
 If youare using the Compass with a variety of headphones with varying impeedences and sensitivities, you wouljd prefer to have the gain switch.
 Now I would personally prefer a switch to engage Soft 2.

*Here is a cool idea:*
 What if Kingwa labels this switch "Option" and internally is just a pigtail with two connects. The end user could plug it into whichever option he/she wished. This it would be easily customizable without making custom orders. I know this would be directly possible with the Soft 2 or 1 setting right now, and would also work with the gain setting. We would need pins for the preamp out function and the bypass function._

 

Hi,
 I answered the questions on Kingwa's Compass page.

 My suggestions were 9/19 dB and change the front Panel Button to the "Preamp line output switch (HP/Line output switch)".

 I use the Internal AMP often on my Yulong and use the DAC out Often, I would also use the Pre-out option if it were available to some AMP'd Spkrs.

 Even though I have Phones from 25 Ohms to 300, I just don't see fooling with Gain a lot. I would like the Vol pot to be "able" to go to 12:00 though.

 I also don't see myself using the Super/Bypass button much either.

 The Pre-out, I can see using a lot possibly on a daily basis. I would want to be able to switch quickly from DAC out to Pre-Out to Phones quickly without reaching behind the box.

 Your Option button suggestion seems interesting. Basically make all the switch headers the same so you could re assign switch positions. Very intriguing suggestion.

 Other thoughts:

 The Fonts on the front are nice and I like them actually. . They could use some alignment corrections. Ear out and Selector could be dropped or left, I wouldn't care either way.


 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crikey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd have to disagree to Korean Food trumping all other asian food. I'd say Chinese food trumps all other asian food 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The variety is just astonishing and the taste is delicious as well.

 Back on topic before we go off on another tangent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Has there been any comparisons out yet that compare the custom power cables with the stock ones provided? I've seen people mention power cables but I don't think there's been any real comparisons between the 2 (or at least from what I've read so far). Thanks_

 


 THAI!!!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If u see the latest Compass thread at audio-gd, the RCA plug upgrade looks like Gilded pure OFC copper. these plugs costs a lot of $$$._

 


 Will those Jacks be on all the new Compass's, or is it an option?

 .


----------



## mbd2884

They are on the new Compass. He said he had to specially custom order them just for the Compass, haha.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you've noticed on the Compass page on the Audio-gd site Kingwa wants feedback on the front panel button currently used for Super. He also asks about the gain settings.

 I have created a web survey where you can fill out with your answers:
Audio-gd front panel button poll_

 

I just want to remind/urge everyone again to vote in this poll about the Compass configuration changes for the upgraded version. The results are looking pretty clear currently but if anyone hasn't voted there's still time. I figure I'll give Kingwa the results either later today or tomorrow.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Here is a cool idea:*
 What if Kingwa labels this switch "Option" and internally is just a pigtail with two connects. The end user could plug it into whichever option he/she wished. This it would be easily customizable without making custom orders. I know this would be directly possible with the Soft 2 or 1 setting right now, and would also work with the gain setting. We would need pins for the preamp out function and the bypass function._

 

That's an interesting idea. I'm not sure how that would work out with making it possible to independently control all three features though unless there was an extra little board where one could connect each switch to the feature of their choice (since there will be an additional two switches on the rear of the compass I think).

 I do agree that it would be nice to also have some way to switch between the sound modes.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crikey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has there been any comparisons out yet that compare the custom power cables with the stock ones provided? I've seen people mention power cables but I don't think there's been any real comparisons between the 2 (or at least from what I've read so far). Thanks_

 

I had the opportunity to test side by side the custom cables and not Kingwa's stock cable, but the normal one that came with my PC.

 Before I start, I must stress this was my personal observation and through my speakers and not headphones, as currently I do not have a good enough headphone to reveal any such changes.

 The main difference I could perceive:

 1) the sound stage widened up a bit and instruments were more focused, I mean I could pinpoint more easily.

 2) I found the dynamics of the music become better, more drive - the music was more clear than compared to stock cables.

 Although I also have to say, I could not perceive any changes in tonality.

 To sum it up, it was better clarity and better sound stage.


----------



## ccschua

Well RCA plugs can give a difference. just like speaker binding posts too, it can give a difference.

 I have separately asked kingwa about silver cable to RCA, looks like the bass is not enuf to drive. Has anyone tried using 1mm silver cable ?


----------



## Joeoboe

I have been discussing the switch options with Kingwa. He is working through some ideas. He did mention perhaps a small pc board added to give people the option of making the Super switch connect any function (bypass, preamp, gain) they wanted... so he is on the case. 
 One of the other unintended benefits to this idea is that all of a sudden the "Super" designation makes more sense, since it is a button that can be assigned to do different things for different people... thus it is the Super Button!


----------



## mbd2884

How does having more than one D/A Chips make a difference? Once data is converted to analog, isn't it just analog? Why would it need to be processed again?

 AD1852 of Compass vs Dual Wolfson WM8740 of DACMagic. Just wondering, not looking to upgrade or anything.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been discussing the switch options with Kingwa. He is working through some ideas. He did mention perhaps a small pc board added to give people the option of making the Super switch connect any function (bypass, preamp, gain) they wanted... so he is on the case. 
 One of the other unintended benefits to this idea is that all of a sudden the "Super" designation makes more sense, since it is a button that can be assigned to do different things for different people... thus it is the Super Button!_

 

Somethin' just slapped me in the back of the head!!


 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does having more than one D/A Chips make a difference? Once data is converted to analog, isn't it just analog? Why would it need to be processed again?

 AD1852 of Compass vs Dual Wolfson WM8740 of DACMagic. Just wondering, not looking to upgrade or anything._

 

DAC-8 and Ref 1 have 8 DAC chips. DAC-3SE has 4



 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just want to remind/urge everyone again to vote in this poll about the Compass configuration changes for the upgraded version. The results are looking pretty clear currently but if anyone hasn't voted there's still time. I figure I'll give Kingwa the results either later today or tomorrow._

 


 Anyway to see the results as they come in?


 .


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DAC-8 and Ref 1 have 8 DAC chips. DAC-3SE has 4
 ._

 

Yeah I know and I still have no idea how reprocessing data makes a difference or how having multiple chips processing same data improves sound.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I know and I still have no idea how reprocessing data makes a difference or how having multiple chips processing same data improves sound._

 

Why couldn't it be parallel processing?

 .


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why couldn't it be parallel processing?

 ._

 

Yeah second part of my statement was supposed to mean that, wasn't sure how to state it. Either way, how does all of this improve the sound? Oh well, maybe I'll just need to do some independent research on this.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah second part of my statement was supposed to mean that, wasn't sure how to state it. Either way, how does all of this improve the sound? Oh well, maybe I'll just need to do some independent research on this._

 

Have you read the Datasheet for those DAC chips? I believe they may address this there. It's been a while since i read it.

http://www.lessloss.com/faq.html?q=s...onverter-chips

http://www.dddac.de/ma_dac31.htm

 .


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been discussing the switch options with Kingwa. He is working through some ideas. He did mention perhaps a small pc board added to give people the option of making the Super switch connect any function (bypass, preamp, gain) they wanted... so he is on the case. 
 One of the other unintended benefits to this idea is that all of a sudden the "Super" designation makes more sense, since it is a button that can be assigned to do different things for different people... thus it is the Super Button!_

 

Glad to hear I wasn't the only one thinking of a PCB board. 

 This would be the most advantageous solution since then you can control what the front Super button does as well as what the two rear switches will be for. The only disadvantage however is knowing which is which. Particularly with the rear switches. I'm a little mixed on that fact because if you want to leave say gain and preamp on the back it would be rather annoying to flip the wrong one.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you read the Datasheet for those DAC chips? I believe they may address this there. It's been a while since i read it.

FAQ : LessLoss high end audio power cables, high end video power cables, audio cables, digital cables, power filter, DAC
 ._

 

Coolness thanks.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad to hear I wasn't the only one thinking of a PCB board. 

 This would be the most advantageous solution since then you can control what the front Super button does as well as what the two rear switches will be for. The only disadvantage however is knowing which is which. Particularly with the rear switches. I'm a little mixed on that fact because if you want to leave say gain and preamp on the back it would be rather annoying to flip the wrong one._

 

I have suggested small labels you could stick on the rear panel after you have assigned the switches to the configuration you liked. They would not be too ugly since they are on the rear panel.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have suggested small labels you could stick on the rear panel after you have assigned the switches to the configuration you liked. They would not be too ugly since they are on the rear panel._

 

That was the only way I could think of doing it.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FAQ : LessLoss high end audio power cables, high end video power cables, audio cables, digital cables, power filter, DAC_

 

I like this site. Yeah they are promoting their products, but for simple questions you may have, they answer them very well, its simple and easy enough for newbs like myself to understand. 

 It would appear yeah they have a DAC, but their big selling point are their power cables, and their argument is for reducing jitter and electromagnetic bandwidths. I'm reading their reasons about jitter now, that's interesting, wonder if that's what is going on with Audio-gd's power cables.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ but their big selling point are their power cables, and their argument is for reducing electromagnetic bandwidths. I'm reading their reasons about jitter now, that's interesting, wonder if that's what is going on with Audio-gd's power cables._

 

Interesting Mbd.. maybe that is why I could not find any tonal changes, but just clarity and better sound-stage..

 Hey! you said your cables will be arriving today.. don't forget to share your impressions.


----------



## azncookiecutter

A request: adding a 2nd set of RCA outputs, so one can plug in 2 amps or into 1 amp and a pair of speakers (what I would like to ideally see).


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A request: adding a 2nd set of RCA outputs, so one can plug in 2 amps or into 1 amp and a pair of speakers (what I would like to ideally see)._

 

Compass already has a DAC out. plus the upgraded version will have a preamp out too- both can be connected to amp and then speakers.. maybe I don't read you correctly, but if its something that can be done, I think Audio GD does custom fittings too..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like this site. Yeah they are promoting their products, but for simple questions you may have, they answer them very well, its simple and easy enough for newbs like myself to understand. 

 It would appear yeah they have a DAC, but their big selling point are their power cables, and their argument is for reducing electromagnetic bandwidths. I'm reading their reasons about jitter now, that's interesting, wonder if that's what is going on with Audio-gd's power cables._

 

Yeah, interesting stuff. Fascinating too to see they have similar reclocking gear to the DSP-1 (and also advocate the relative unimportance of a good transport because of this), but on the other hand they seem to disagree completely with Kingwa's multiple processor designs.

 I'm sticking with Kingwa for the moment though. I mean what is cooler? Being able to say: "This DAC has the best DA chip available at the moment." (Lessloss DAC2004), or to say "This DAC has the best DA chip available at the moment...AND it has 8 of them!" (Audio-gd Reference One)


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


 Separate and shield install transformer and rectifiers, stop the disturb. 
 

Here is a link that explains that may explain this description on the Compass page.
Power Supply Design: Isolation Transformer

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting Mbd.. maybe that is why I could not find any tonal changes, but just clarity and better sound-stage..

 Hey! you said your cables will be arriving today.. don't forget to share your impressions._

 

Interesting they chose the same DAC to use though. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A request: adding a 2nd set of RCA outputs, so one can plug in 2 amps or into 1 amp and a pair of speakers (what I would like to ideally see)._

 

Again this goes to defeating the purpose of design for the Compass. Its meant to be an all in one, DAC/Amp combo for your headphones, not speakers. If you want to use this as pre-amp for your speaker setup, well that's added. If you want to use this as DAC for your speaker setup, well that's already added. Not sure why you would need more than this as its design purpose is well, alternative to the Zero as a headphone solution.

 That and its really been a community effort that Kingwa has been kind enough to utilize our suggestions. So please keep your personal needs to yourself. This shouldn't be, this is what I need, if something needs changing, should be about the greater Head-Fi community who will also be using the Compass. The last few requests I have seen been pretty self serving and about, me me, I need this. Keep it to how it would improve the Compass for the betterment of all of us.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, found that little blurb on the page now, thanks for the info. One thing that the Zero lacks is a second set of RCA outputs, and it drives me crazy to swap cables between amp and speakers._

 

Again lets keep this about the community, not about addressing your annoyance with changing wires, as the rest of the community I'm sure will not be attempting to use a headphone amp to drive their speakers. That and if I was Kingwa, would be confused by such a request, as would probably just say, uh, I got power amplifers for that, buy one!


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Compass already has a DAC out. plus the upgraded version will have a preamp out too- both can be connected to amp and then speakers.. maybe I don't read you correctly, but if its something that can be done, I think Audio GD does custom fittings too.._

 

Ah, found that little blurb on the page now, thanks for the info. One thing that the Zero lacks is a second set of RCA outputs, and it drives me crazy to swap cables between amp and speakers.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

A good power cable should not be a tone control...if it is it's flawed. The obvious conclusions have already been expressed. Better dynamics and sound stage.

 I'm still plugging away on the comparisons...each rotation of ref CD's I'm using takes 6 hours to complete. I can't pare it back because I'm more than half way through so I'll just have to keep going. Besides it's giving me the time to really dig into the meat and potatoes of the competition and the Compass simultaneously.

 Sandchak you are correct about the Adcom. It is a fine preamp made even better by the huge mod job I completed on it this past November. The stock GFP 750 is a Nelson Pass Aleph B variation and is very very transparent. The mod only made it all that much better. It was a huge mod BTW (76 parts). 

 StereoPhool gave it a class A rating 8 years ago. Why Adcom dropped it from production is any ones guess...maybe they weren't making enough money off of it or the license from Pass ran out. Who knows. But they are still highly sought after and maintain a steady resale value so that must mean Adcom did something right for a change (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).


 The first gen amps like the GF 555 were also all Nelson Pass....as I found out recently.

 Anyway I'm just taking a short break from testing to refresh myself...give the ears a break. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I use the Super switch on a regular basis and find it's function to be handy. Having user selectable hook up options is nice but I'd rather have the wiring the way it is...no additional connectors between the boards and just pure good quality wire and solder. I'm a purist in that way. Why add what isn't really needed.

 The wording on the front....it's fine by me. That's the last thing I'm thinking about if at all. But that's just me.

 All of this of course, is IMO.

 Right, back to work...15 min break is over 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A good power cable should not be a tone control...if it is it's flawed. The obvious conclusions have already been expressed. Better dynamics and sound stage._

 

Thats exactly what impression I got when I swapped the cables, in fact I was a bit surprised when Kingwa's site suggested it would give "slight sweet sound", although the other word "focus" was dead on..


  Quote:


 Sandchak you are correct about the Adcom. It is a fine preamp made even better by the huge mod job I completed on it this past November. The stock GFP 750 is a Nelson Pass Aleph B variation and is very very transparent. The mod only made it all that much better. It was a huge mod BTW (76 parts). 

 StereoPhool gave it a class A rating 8 years ago. Why Adcom dropped it from production is any ones guess...maybe they weren't making enough money off of it or the license from Pass ran out. Who knows. But they are still highly sought after and maintain a steady resale value so that must mean Adcom did something right for a change (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).

 The first gen amps like the GF 555 were also all Nelson Pass....as I found out recently. 
 

Before I came to this place 5 years ago, I had managed to build up quite a decent gear, I was driving my B&W 804 series2 speakers biamped with custom RCA Quads 606s, my friend had built me a passive attenuators and I was in the lookout for good preamp and many had suggested me this particular Adcoms, and now you are saying its moded and far better than the stock preamp.. now i am really stepping down from my expectations of half as good as Adcoms to just 3/10, and at this price Compass would still be a keeper for its preamp function.. btw, I also observed that Compass preamp out sounded far neutral than DAC out..

  Quote:


 Anyway I'm just taking a short break from testing to refresh myself...give the ears a break. 
 

Cant wait.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the Super switch on a regular basis and find it's function to be handy. Having user selectable hook up options is nice but I'd rather have the wiring the way it is...no additional connectors between the boards and just pure good quality wire and solder. I'm a purist in that way. Why add what isn't really needed.

 The wording on the front....it's fine by me. That's the last thing I'm thinking about if at all. But that's just me.

 All of this of course, is IMO.

 Right, back to work...15 min break is over 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

I am also a purist at heart. However I can imagine the switch you will use most is highly dependent on how you will use the Compass. Thus, someone using it as a headphone amp and a preamp to drive and amp and bookshelf speakers would find the pass switch useless and be constantly using the switch on the rear panel for preamp function. Looking at the schematic, it appears that there is no signal actually passing through the bypass switch, nor the preamp switch so those should not be an issue. The gain switch appears to not pass signal between the two poles so that should be clean as well. Adding the ability to plug in the switch the way you like should not affect the signal path at all. The tone jumpers however are IN the signal path... which is probably why Kingwa says to turn off the Compass when adjusting these. So... it is likely that tone adjustment is out for now (without a compromise or board redesign).
 So as long as the signal path stays clean, I welcome the flexibility of configuring your own switches.


----------



## gyrodec

I don't think Audio-gd is "stacking" its DAC chips. I'm fairly sure they are being used in a dual-differential way, as most moder DAC designers do. The NOS crew tend to stack chips, but not the modern designs. You run one chip with its signal inverted and one with the original signal and combine the output - you get twice the voltage and all the even order distorion harmonics cancel and randon noise drops in relation to the signal. Its a good idea, and has no drawbacks except extra cost. Using 8 chips you can do the same trick more than once for even better noise performance.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gyrodec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think Audio-gd is "stacking" its DAC chips. I'm fairly sure they are being used in a dual-differential way, as most moder DAC designers do. The NOS crew tend to stack chips, but not the modern designs. You run one chip with its signal inverted and one with the original signal and combine the output - you get twice the voltage and all the even order distorion harmonics cancel and randon noise drops in relation to the signal. Its a good idea, and has no drawbacks except extra cost. Using 8 chips you can do the same trick more than once for even better noise performance._

 

Ah, thanks for that. So basically it's the "balanced" approach to DAC design? (In a manner of speaking.) Rather suitable to Audio-gd. 

 God, I have to read up on this stuff some more!


----------



## cs00brp

I send Audio-gd an email about when the nexxt batch will be ready and he reply that by the end of the month he might be shipping again, but he hasn't made up his mind. But he is taking orders again. So I might just bite the bullet and order one know.

 Bren


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cs00brp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I send Audio-gd an email about when the nexxt batch will be ready and he reply that by the end of the month he might be shipping again, but he hasn't made up his mind. But he is taking orders again. So I might just bite the bullet and order one know.

 Bren_

 

Way to go! If you don't like, good thing you will be able to resell it for the full amount you bought it for, considering by the time you think about selling, its full value will be well above the price you paid for it.


----------



## mbd2884

Alright I have been home now for about an hour listening to my new setup.

 DHL barely made it from being lame, delivering when no one is at the office. I ran into the delivery guy as I was walking down the stairs to leave the building.

 First off, some differences, in the setup. I have a new mouse as my old one is quite ancient, MX500 optical that has taken a beating in 3 years of college, my year of working and lan parties. The USB connection at the end has been bent and rebent many times, so I got me a new laser MX400. So that might help with the sound, as connection probably sucked before.

 My microphone no longer USB, I got me a microphone in one, since I got two USB slots taken by too intensive powered products.

 I plug the cord into a decent sized surge protection I bought years ago, but its got enough protection to take survive just about any power surge. It could be a lot better, but its not on my list to improve as its still rock solid.

 Ok, I'm not sure if anyone has described the power cord. First thing comes to mind is, "RIDICULOUS!" There are three cords, braided, with a black mesh covering over it. You can feel each of the cords, each cord is thicker than the entire USB cord shielding and all. They are stiff, yeah this power cord does not like to bend. Its about 2.5 times the width of the default cord that comes with the Compass. The power plug, going into the power source, again its 2.5 times the size of the normal plug. The plug going into the Compass, now its a little over 3 times the size. Its ridiculous. If you were to hold the plug in your hands, you can wrap your hand around it and it will fit very snuggly inside. Tips of your hand will barely reach the beginning of your wrist, its massive.

 Sound wise, I would agree with Peete and Sandchak's observations, can go back and read them. As I don't want to repeat what they said, for me the biggest noticable change is the treble. I have no idea how, can't explain why, but the treble is no longer harsh. Its not as piercing as it was this morning, I'm listening to George Winston's Forest Album and its a joy to listen right now. As they said, the sound tone has not changed. Its just certain things sound better than before. The separation on the bass in some songs better. But thing I can say for sure, definitively for my ears, the treble has improved enough for me to say, yes there is an audible difference.

 Is this thing worth $75 and plus shipping? Hmm can't say. But you will notice a difference, at least I have. I'm glad I have it.

 My description of my music setup. I'm no audiophile, not one to run around claiming to have golden ears. Won't be telling anyone how superior Analog, Vinyl is to digital. I won't be saying that I can hear the difference between a well encoded 192 Variable or 256 CBR to a CD. I just thoroughly enjoy listening to music and I get lost in it.

 My setup is ridiculous now. I have an AD900 that can be driven to ear bleeding levels just from the crummy Headphone Jack in my laptop, using the Realtek HD crummy soundcard. I now have a dedicated DAC and solid Amp with an excellent PSU. The Compass at 9.5 O Clock has WAY more power than my Laptop did at full volume, and I'm using the 13 dB setting. Foobar2K volume is set at -15 dB right now, so loud already. Its a lot of juice for these AD900s. A power cord that is of immense ridiculous size. I re-terminated my AD900 plug to the "best" possible (Says Moon-Audio) Furutech FP-704 1/4" plug. Which is about 4 times the size if I was to just use an adapter and 3 times the size if I was to use a normal RadioShack plug. I decided to keep the default USB cord, as I heard no difference between that and the one from Best Buy. None at all, and will return it for mo money back.

 I am pleased, and just looking at this, and thinking all this to drive my AD900s. ROFL, fun!

 Sarah McLaughin - Afterglow album. Never really thought much of it, always background music. Right now its very engaging. The bass is great, has nice impact. The solo electric guitar sounds very warm, with now edgy treble to it. The acoustic guitar and her voice are definitely center stage, the bass guitar is behind where it should be. As always just having fun.


----------



## Currawong

For me, relative to the prices I paid for components, the power cords I feel give a solid $75 or more worth of improvement and go against the law of diminishing returns, as to get a similar sonic improvement in my DAC, for example, I'd probably have to pay double the price of it. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been discussing the switch options with Kingwa. He is working through some ideas. He did mention perhaps a small pc board added to give people the option of making the Super switch connect any function (bypass, preamp, gain) they wanted... so he is on the case. 
 One of the other unintended benefits to this idea is that all of a sudden the "Super" designation makes more sense, since it is a button that can be assigned to do different things for different people... thus it is the Super Button!_

 

Joe, to be honest, I think this switching and other feature options are getting ridiculous. Kingwa needs to stop at some point and just say "This is it". As it is, it's a complex unit already. I reckon the Super button should be called Super if Kingwa wants it that way and have only one function. If it starts to have multiple functions, then it'll be confusing. You don't need to switch the gain more than once to suit whatever headphones you have. We could also live without gain switches. Not to mention the Compass is fine with the default as it has a good attenuator built in. As well, the more stuff with wires that gets added, the lower the sound quality. 

 As it is, nothing else on the market has "soft modes", pre-out/DAC bypass, a Neutrik locking jack, discrete opamps. It doesn't need a kitchen sink. It could come without half this stuff and still be good value. We need to focus on whether it achievs its aims, not adding every tiny feature to satisfy every tiny desire that every individual may or may not have. Maybe Kingwa should make a pink Hello Kitty version to sell in Hong Kong and Taiwan?


----------



## mbd2884

I agree with Currawong. Kingwa has already been very impressive in implementing so many requests. I know we all have something we want, but before typing your request, I ask think is it for your, or for the betterment of the Head-Fi community who are interested in buying the Compass. And then ask yourself, is this a fair request to make from Kingwa considering this unit offers more than any other unit in its class. This I can say definitively, there is no other Mid-Fi Combo unit that has the versatility or the offerings of the Compass. As for sound and SQ you will have to listen for yourself. And I agree with Peete, I'm also a purist, less switches the better. At this point, once he decided which switch to have on the front, the cosmetic word and lettering changes, I think Compass is a solid Mid-Fi combo. Its going to be, you either rave and love it, or say meh, and sell it for what you paid for it, no money lost.

 So if you like the reviews, impressions, jump in and order yourself one. And hear for yourself.

 Although may want to wait for Curra's and Peete's impressions, but after, just take the risk. At that point, all the impressions, reviews you need to make a decision will have been given. If you still can't decide, then you need to seek counseling in learning how to make and commit to decisions.


----------



## les_garten

Kingwa's a Big Boy, I'm sure he will know where to draw the line.

 If somebody has a request or an opinion, let's hear em.


 .


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa's a Big Boy, I'm sure he will know where to draw the line.

 If somebody has a request or an opinion, let's hear em.


 ._

 

Agreed. I think that fact that this entire unit was made on a request says it all. I think at this point, a lot of times, all these little features are things can make or break sales.


----------



## csroc

I agree that realistically I think there should be a limited number of changes. 

 The ones I see as most important are:
 preamp out on all units (already planned before the test units even shipped)
 Lowered minimum gain (13dB is still too high for some headphones and the volume between the channels can be a bit unbalanced at its lowest settings)
 Gain switch (only because it's a fairly common convenience feature, however I know I won't change it often)

 I personally agree that adding in a PCB to allow users to configure the front switch and the additional rear switches is additional complication. Kingwa doesn't seem to be above customizing some things for customers at times, so maybe you could ask that button to be a certain feature when you buy it, but I don't think he has to do it. The Compass already does a lot and he's already taken a lot of advice. We could go on tinkering with it forever but I'd rather see it done and ready for new buyers and the Compass-18'ers who want to upgrade (such as myself). The test unit itself is a phenomenal unit, Kingwa could realistically sell it as it is now but I really appreciate his interest to respond to customer needs to make some adjustments. I don't think we should badger him with a long list of features that aren't under significant demand.


----------



## Joeoboe

I think the reason Kingwa likes the idea of adding a small circuit board is that it allows him to not modify the existing circuit board. He is talking about adding a small board that has all the jumper connections. So when you want to attach the front switch to a specific function, you will not have to search for where the jumper is located. All the pertinent jumpers will be hard wired to the daughter-board. 
 As far as the concern about adding more features... it isn't. The wiring has already been added on some of the initial 18 for preamp out. The only additional wiring is the gain switch which many people ( not me) are asking for. Since all that wire is already installed, I am just saying it would be nice if we were able to plug the wires into the functions we like.


----------



## csroc

I'm alright with it depending on how much work it takes. I don't think it's something kingwa should be busting his hump over.


----------



## Joeoboe

I agree. I think Kigwa was stuck trying to decide which button connects to what function. He would then customize the buttons when asked. I think he is excited about this idea because of its flexibility and it would save him from having to do all that custom soldering by request. He obviously is an engineer who likes to design in lots of options. Adding flexible switching is certainly less complex than designing all the filters for the Soft settings which many will never use. I think he really enjoys the design process.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. I think Kigwa was stuck trying to decide which button connects to what function. He would then customize the buttons when asked. I think he is excited about this idea because of its flexibility and it would save him from having to do all that custom soldering by request. He obviously is an engineer who likes to design in lots of options. Adding flexible switching is certainly less complex than designing all the filters for the Soft settings which many will never use. I think he really enjoys the design process._

 

The compass is his baby. He has been pushing the thing to be an amazing piece of gear. Good for him! Good for us too! I know that if I was in his shoes, I would be a perfectionist as well. Just one more year until I finish my EE degree, then I can try out this design stuff for myself.


----------



## csroc

I've emailed him the current results from the poll on the front panel button and the gain choices. I'm curious to see how he responds and if that affects his decision to develop a PCB to allow users to switch the button & switch functions around.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The compass is his baby. He has been pushing the thing to be an amazing piece of gear. Good for him! Good for us too! I know that if I was in his shoes, I would be a perfectionist as well. Just one more year until I finish my EE degree, then I can try out this design stuff for myself._

 

Just this last semester for me =D I hope you have better luck job hunting than I have been =X I literally have some 60+ applications out there and yet to hear word back on a single one of them =\ I might have to do grad school despite it not being conducive with my goals.

 It might just make his Kingwas engineering more simple having the separate little board. I suspect the most difficult part would then be finding a spot for the little board. He will probably attach it to the front or back switches themselves. I actually thought about having a little fun and doing the design for it myself but thats probably too risky for him XD And I doubt Ill have time even for something as simple as that, this semester is going to be a challenge.

 Maybe the best way to approach ideas for further development is to simply compile a list and have a vote that allows the voter to pick their top 3. As long as the list isnt too long there should be enough overlap to pick the winning ideas. Or maybe just ask Kingwa how he would like ideas to be presented.


----------



## Joeoboe

He actually has lots of space. This case is BIG. The HDAM fits into the opamp socket with 1/2 " clearance from the topf the case... no pigtails required! He also has a block of space behind the power supply big enough to hold another power supply! I may keep my wallet in there to hide it from burglars!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He actually has lots of space. This case is BIG. The HDAM fits into the opamp socket with 1/2 " clearance from the topf the case... no pigtails required! He also has a block of space behind the power supply big enough to hold another power supply! I may keep my wallet in there to hide it from burglars!_

 

Heh! How about a little slide out drawer that could hold a .380 Automatic? Walther PPK size, let's exercise our new democracy here and vote on it! 


 .


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about a little slide out drawer that could hold a .380 Automatic? Walther PPK size, let's exercise our new democracy here and vote on it! 


 ._

 

Maybe he should redesign the Compass so it stands vertically and has two headphone holders on top!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It might just make his Kingwas engineering more simple having the separate little board. I suspect the most difficult part would then be finding a spot for the little board._

 

As mentioned there's a reasonable amount of room inside the Compass, so I'm sure Kingwa could find a home for it.


  Quote:


 Maybe the best way to approach ideas for further development is to simply compile a list and have a vote that allows the voter to pick their top 3. As long as the list isnt too long there should be enough overlap to pick the winning ideas. Or maybe just ask Kingwa how he would like ideas to be presented. 
 

well there is this poll where people can vote on what they would prefer.

 Currently over 60% of respondents want the front button to control the Bypass feature. Preamp is following with 26% of the votes.

 Also, 65% of all responses want the gain choices to be 9dB on low and 19dB on high.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Ok, I'm not sure if anyone has described the power cord. First thing comes to mind is, "RIDICULOUS!" There are three cords, braided, with a black mesh covering over it. You can feel each of the cords, each cord is thicker than the entire USB cord shielding and all. They are stiff, yeah this power cord does not like to bend. Its about 2.5 times the width of the default cord that comes with the Compass. The power plug, going into the power source, again its 2.5 times the size of the normal plug. The plug going into the Compass, now its a little over 3 times the size. Its ridiculous. If you were to hold the plug in your hands, you can wrap your hand around it and it will fit very snuggly inside. Tips of your hand will barely reach the beginning of your wrist, its massive.

 Sound wise, I would agree with Peete and Sandchak's observations, can go back and read them. As I don't want to repeat what they said, for me the biggest noticable change is the treble. I have no idea how, can't explain why, but the treble is no longer harsh. Its not as piercing as it was this morning, I'm listening to George Winston's Forest Album and its a joy to listen right now. As they said, the sound tone has not changed. Its just certain things sound better than before. The separation on the bass in some songs better. But thing I can say for sure, definitively for my ears, the treble has improved enough for me to say, yes there is an audible difference.

 Is this thing worth $75 and plus shipping? Hmm can't say. But you will notice a difference, at least I have. I'm glad I have it._

 

Hi mbd, first of all glad to know the power cables reached you.

 Yeah, kind of thick because actually it has 5 separate wires braided together (2 +, 2 - and 1 ground) and not 3, I can say that because apart from fitted cables, I also bought from Kingwa, bare ones, so I can see it.

 As for the worth, according to my experience - with Compass itself many will find, it does make a difference but as far as how much it is worth will be a little difficult because compared to the cost of Compass itself which is cheap, the cable price sounds high, but as you go higher up the ladder, the difference will be more in both cost and perceivable difference (music) - but again from a point it starts to get to the theory of diminishing returns - as Curra said.

 I also agree with Curra and mbd on the issue of upgrades, in my last communication as early as this morning, I think Kingwa will not add a separate PCB, but as per the polls and general consensus he will place the switches accordingly, and if anyone wants it differently placed, he will oblige, although it will take a further week ship the Compass. According to him its important he finalizes Compass because he has many other new products to introduce this year.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The compass is his baby. He has been pushing the thing to be an amazing piece of gear. Good for him! Good for us too! I know that if I was in his shoes, I would be a perfectionist as well. Just one more year until I finish my EE degree, then I can try out this design stuff for myself._

 

I agree with you that he is a perfectionist, but at the same time he is a businessman too, so in that case, its not just about fine tuning Compass but also taking all the costing in mind, I guess this is the primary difference.

 I guess with all these years making and selling gears, he does have a clear picture in mind as to what is good and at the same time feasible.

 What I am trying to say is - expression of ideas is very good, but don't be disappointed if it is rejected, As far as me goes and strictly personally, all the additions we are talking about has nothing to do with the sound or quality of Compass, but about personal preferences - meaning some would like it this way, others wouldn't- which means starting a new debate altogether..


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to him its important he finalizes Compass because he has many other new products to introduce this year._

 

That's good to hear. Otherwise there'd be new ideas coming in all the time!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

By this time tomorrow evening I should have all the testing completed...after that I need to edit and write the formal review from my rough notes.

 Just keeping you guys up to date on things.

 From the all the listening tests conducted thus far one conclusion I've arrived at is the Compass neutral setting using an Earth module in the dac is perfect as it is and does not require any voicing changes. So that's good news.

 Of course that's IMO.

 Peete.


----------



## Mr.Mantas

[size=small] Quote:


 Joe, to be honest, I think this switching and other feature options are getting ridiculous. Kingwa needs to stop at some point and just say "This is it". As it is, it's a complex unit already. I reckon the Super button should be called Super if Kingwa wants it that way and have only one function. If it starts to have multiple functions, then it'll be confusing. You don't need to switch the gain more than once to suit whatever headphones you have. We could also live without gain switches. Not to mention the Compass is fine with the default as it has a good attenuator built in. As well, the more stuff with wires that gets added, the lower the sound quality. 

 As it is, nothing else on the market has "soft modes", pre-out/DAC bypass, a Neutrik locking jack, discrete opamps. It doesn't need a kitchen sink. It could come without half this stuff and still be good value. We need to focus on whether it achievs its aims, not adding every tiny feature to satisfy every tiny desire that every individual may or may not have. Maybe Kingwa should make a pink Hello Kitty version to sell in Hong Kong and Taiwan? 
 

[/size]
 __________________________________________________ ____
 [size=large]Im TOTALLY agree with Kura!!!!
 Stop bugging Kingwa! its not a fashion clothes factory!...
 Sorry for my rudeness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





[/size]


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr.Mantas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
___________________________________________________ ____
 [size=large]Sorry for my rudeness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/size]_

 

Too late now...


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr.Mantas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
___________________________________________________ ____
 [size=large]Im TOTALLY agree with Kura!!!!
 Stop bugging Kingwa! its not a fashion clothes factory!...
 Sorry for my rudeness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/size]_

 

I think you are missing the point. Kingwa released the first 18 units with the express purpuse of getting input on how to improve it. We are only doing this because he ASKED for our opinion. The switching issue is one that Kingwa specifically posted on his website saying he needed input. So, everyone needs to chill. We are doing our job, as requested b Kingwa himself. If Kingwa wants to add a pc board, this is his decision to make as the designer. In order to reduce gain using the preamp out, he has already mentioned adding a relay to automatically reduce gain in that mode. I really don't like the idea about adding a relay since it is a mechanical switch, but that is his decision to make. So I urge people to continue to do as asked and give feedback and suggestions.


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## mbd2884

I think some people have missed the point also. This is about evaluating the Compass and providing constructive input in creating a final version. Its not about suggesting self serving and unnecessary changes. Focus on changes that need to be made that will be beneficial to anyone who buys the new Compass. Like changing Ear Out to Headphone, or just plain removing it as Ear Out sounds odd to anyone who speaks english. Or placing the Gain Switch at the front as it will most likely be used most as people change headphones, where as Super Mode only used by a few who have multiple DACs to switch in and out, so put that switch in the back. 

 Also when you suggest something LOOK at the Compass design. Its meant to be a fully discete, neutral DAC/Amp combo for Headphones. Fact that the volume pot is designed to skip a potometer (spelling?) to create best sound possible, well to me, that PCB suggestion seems to negate the overall build concept of the Compass. Adding more switches, again negate this effort, as when you look at the rest of the Audio-gd products, I get the sense Kingwa is also a purist. So I would suggest people think about all of the above before making self serving or unnecessary frivolous suggestions. That and chances are, Kingwa won't adapt those changes because it will go against his purist, neutral sound design philosophy anyways.

 Either way, I'm more on the side with others. Help Kingwa finalize this final version sooner than later. When you really want something, and its only a few weeks away, those few weeks drag. And people have already expressed here they are excited about getting a Compass themselves. Be great for both Kingwa and other potential customers if a final version is made as soon as possible. 

 I still suggest Kingwa look into using FedEx or UPS instead of DHL. DHL has not impressed me at all, I prefer USPS over DHL right now.

 I can't wait to read Peete's impressions tonight or tomorrow morning, looks like you have gone all out.

 Curra feeling better? I hope so.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Or placing the Gain Switch at the front as it will most likely be used most as people change headphones, where as Super Mode only used by a few who have multiple DACs to switch in and out, so put that switch in the back. _

 

This is a good example. Most people have voted for the Bypass button so Kingwa would have to do custom soldering for you. My suggestion is completley misunderstood. 
 There ARE three switches with wiring that Kingwa has said would be in the final version. My suggestion was that rather than solder them to the board, use plugs so that the switches can just be plugged in where you want them... just like you have jumpers now that you can adjust as you like. The idea of adding a pc board for these connections was Kingwa... he is the engineer, so I figure I will defer to his judgment. But seriously... my idea adds nothing to the circuit... I just would like to plug the from button into the function I need... which might change. For the time being I would use gain, but Kingwa is designing a matching amp that I would buy to run small monitor speakers. In that case I would want the button to switch on the preamp mode. No need to ship it back for modification... I would be able to unplug the switch and reconfigure myself.
 This is a VERY simple and clean idea... no big switching matrix... just put plugs on the switches so we can plug them in where we like. Yikes!


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## inF

<audio-gd@126.com> returns error, I can't mail him. Do you know any working mail adress?


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## mbd2884

Odd, I have almost 50 emails in exchange between Kingwa and myself at that address. Is your ISP being weird, it may not have to do with you or him, contact your ISP maybe.


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## les_garten

This thread is supposed to be a collaborative effort. No one's opinion is worth more or less than anyone Else's. Now is the time when simple changes are the least expensive and easiest to implement. Input should not be stifled, and thought should not be stifled. The Pre-map function was because of feedback from this thread. There were similar screams about that request. I "think" the pre-amp switch should be on the front, but hey, that was not the winner in the Poll. I CAN ACCEPT THAT. 

 If I had the option to move the switches I would do so though. I don't ever see myself switching the Gain switch, even though I have a lot of Phones. I have only limited interest in the "Super" function. But the Masses have voted in a "Democratic" secret ballot. I CAN ACCEPT THAT.

 We have a limited time left before production swings in, although Kingwa seems perfectly fine about custom requests. If "Freedom" reigns, who knows, there may be some Eleventh hour suggestion that we all say, "Hey, that's a Hell of an Idea, can't believe I didn't think of that".

 I am always confused by Harangue and Intimidation.

 now if Kingwa would only put on a Tone control on the final version...



 .


----------



## csroc

Speaking of that vote... 47 so far and here are the results as of around 9:55AM 






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_now if Kingwa would only put on a Tone control on the final version...



 ._

 

I agree, that would be pretty neat. Be nice to have bass and treble adjustments like you see on a lot of speaker preamps. Don't see that often on a headphone amp but it would be a really nice feature.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree, that would be pretty neat. Be nice to have bass and treble adjustments like you see on a lot of speaker preamps. Don't see that often on a headphone amp but it would be a really nice feature._

 

Oh dear, tone controls might be too much for Kingwa's purist heart. (And for mine too by the way. The horror...) In a way, the tone controls are already there, they're called Soft-1, Soft-2 and Soft-3.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh dear, tone controls might be too much for Kingwa's purist heart. (And for mine too by the way. The horror...) In a way, the tone controls are already there, they're called Soft-1, Soft-2 and Soft-3._

 

Yes I know many people quake at the thought of tone controls. I don't use them often and my amp has defeatable tone controls which is usually how I leave them. The only time I use the tone controls on my NAD is when I plug headphones in to it.


----------



## Joeoboe

I also wanted the ability to switch tone. The easiest way would be to switch the existing filter networks he designed... however... it turns out this is NOT a simple or easy thing and would require a redesign. Kingwa said he would consider it in a future upgrade. I don't think it is likely it would happen in this version.
 Also, I was under the impression that Kingwa was going to make changes on the Compass based on the reviews from the initial 18 units. Since only one review has been posted I think we are not in the _end_ stage of this process but at the _beginning_. I think people are thinking "enough already, just build it and send me one". But... the reviews are not in yet... so people need to be patient. Let the process work itself through. The final product will be a much better piece of gear as a result.


----------



## Sganzerla

Hmm... there are Earth, Sun and Moon already...


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## csroc

Kingwa is waiting for full reviews but I doubt all of the other 17 owners are going to write a comprehensive review. I'm not, but I will comment on what's good and what could be improved. I doubt we're at the beginning of this process but more likely somewhere in the middle.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of that vote... 47 so far and here are the results as of around 9:55AM 








 I agree, that would be pretty neat. Be nice to have bass and treble adjustments like you see on a lot of speaker preamps. Don't see that often on a headphone amp but it would be a really nice feature._

 


 Thanx for posting that, Great Idea about the Survey!

 Les

 .


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## Joeoboe

True... we are about 2 weeks in to a 4 week process. In another 2 weeks we will get an idea of the actual final product. Even though I did not get the preamp option installed, I have been very happy with my Compass. I would need to have the preamp out though in the future, so will likely get the new Compass along with new amp that is under design.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh dear, tone controls might be too much for Kingwa's purist heart. (And for mine too by the way. The horror...) In a way, the tone controls are already there, they're called Soft-1, Soft-2 and Soft-3._

 

Mine was tongue in Cheek. Also I was hoping someone would notice that Tone controls already exist. So a little inpurity has already sneaked in.


 .


----------



## csroc

My comment about tone control was not 100% serious but I'm not against such features as long as they can be disabled. I got over my paranoid purist phase a while ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Joe I know what you mean. There are changes I want with the new Compass that will have me swapping mine out although the biggest one will be the lower gain.

 I think we've seen probably the most big ideas so far that will be implemented and new ideas will keep coming in but they'll taper down. Since we're probably at around that halfway point there's going to be more decision making and compromising as we all (including Kingwa) figure out which features and changes are the most important.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanx for posting that, Great Idea about the Survey!

 Les

 ._

 

I can't take too much credit. Kingwa more or less suggested a ballot, I just decided to implement it externally rather than create a new thread.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My comment about tone control was not 100% serious but I'm not against such features as long as they can be disabled. I got over my paranoid purist phase a while ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Joe I know what you mean. There are changes I want with the new Compass that will have me swapping mine out although the biggest one will be the lower gain.

 I think we've seen probably the most big ideas so far that will be implemented and new ideas will keep coming in but they'll taper down. Since we're probably at around that halfway point there's going to be more decision making and compromising as we all (including Kingwa) figure out which features and changes are the most important.



 I can't take too much credit. Kingwa more or less suggested a ballot, I just decided to implement it externally rather than create a new thread._

 

Well it was a Great Idea, nonetheless. It avoids Harangue and intimidation which is a Good Thing!


 .


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## Sganzerla

A few moments ago I changed my Earth (with 210 hours on it) to Moon (with 0 hours). The difference listening to Duran Duran's Come Undone was BIG. There was CLEARLY harshness/graininess on the backing vocals, so I changed back again to Earth.

 The first thing I've done to my Compass when it reached my house was to listen a couple of songs, and because I had Earth on my Zero, tought it would be better to burn the new Earth that come with my unit first (instead of the default Moon). After changing them, at that time, I tought Moon sounded better. Now I think my Earth sounds much better than Moon, so it will take some time to make sure everything settles down and I can choose one of them. It will not happen in the near future.

 Edited because my poor English, sorry!


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it was a Great Idea, nonetheless. It avoids Harangue and intimidation which is a Good Thing!


 ._

 

Haha this is true! When I read his email to me suggesting a ballot I thought "great idea!" myself.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried Moon a few moments ago to compare to my Earth with 210 hours, the difference listening to Duran Duran's Come Undone was BIG. There was CLEARLY harshness/graininess on the backing vocals, so I changed back again.

 When I first swapped Moon to Earth (after listening to the first 2 or 3 songs) I tought Moon was better, so you can see where I'm going... Will try 100 hours or more with Earth to see if it settles down, and then continue the burning Kingwa started.

 This is going to take time..._

 

You may want to edit this, it is not clear at all. I don't know which HDAM had the harshness/Graininess. So when you say, "you can see where I'm going", well not really?


 .


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## haloxt

In the name of science I tried a jellybean JRC4580 in the compass to gimp it so I could compare it with a halo with 4x lm4562's. It's quite remarkable how much better the compass is at separating instruments than my sound card. That concludes my comprehensive review. And Earth hdam sounds the best.

 Also, btw, do you think kingwa could use an optical input that "snaps in" optical cables? Pretty much just a cosmetics suggestion, even though the cable wriggles inside the input the signal is still fine.


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## Sganzerla

Les,

 Hope it can be understood now. Sorry for my poor English.

 I will use Earth for more 100 hours and then change back to Moon until it reaches his 300 hours too. Then I will compare both to see wich one I prefer.

 I'm not one of those that believe Compass should have Earth instead of Moon, at least not yet.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, btw, do you think kingwa could use an optical input that "snaps in" optical cables? Pretty much just a cosmetics suggestion, even though the cable wriggles inside the input the signal is still fine._

 

Good one! I wrote that down and forgot to include it in my review. Good catch!


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## DayoftheGreek

Lots of info about the Earth and Moon, but did anyone pick up the sunV2? It is still the one I am the most interested in, based on some comments earlier in the thread about its possible(definite?) good synergy with Grado phone. I did read the large thread on comparing a bunch of opamps and the HDAMS, but that's pretty much the only major resource I've seen with info on the Sun.

 Also, can I pick with HDAM my Compass ships with or do I need to buy a second one if I don't want the Moon?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DayoftheGreek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lots of info about the Earth and Moon, but did anyone pick up the sunV2? It is still the one I am the most interested in, based on some comments earlier in the thread about its possible(definite?) good synergy with Grado phone. I did read the large thread on comparing a bunch of opamps and the HDAMS, but that's pretty much the only major resource I've seen with info on the Sun.

 Also, can I pick with HDAM my Compass ships with or do I need to buy a second one if I don't want the Moon?_

 

Hello,
 Mine is shipping with the Earth in the Compass and a SUN as an Extra HDAM. 

 .


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,
 Mine is shipping with the Earth in the Compass and a SUN as an Extra HDAM. 

 ._

 

I am interested in the Sun also... I probably will get one when I get a new Compass. I have been listening in the Soft 3 mode for a while now. It is ok, but lacking in energy and excitement... so I was wondering about the combination of Sun and Soft 2 or 3. One of the cool things about the Compass is the combination of sound quality and flexibility... I think by swapping HDAMs and the Soft settings you could find a setting to please just about everyone... well not EVERYONE... but lots and lots of people!


----------



## csroc

Good call on the "snapping" optical jack.

 I haven't used the optical input on mine so I never noticed.


----------



## mbd2884

Wanted to write this in this thread, from what I read in the C2C review thread.

 Just let future buyers know, the Compass Amp is complete, dead, pitch black silence. You hear a hiss when its a maximum. The Dial on the Volume turns from about 6:30 all the way to about 5:30. Huge. When do you reach unsafe listening even with Foobar2000 volume at -10db (half way up)? 9 o Clock. Yes its pitch black from 6:30 to about 4 o clock. At those volumes, I'd really really worry about your headphones and you hearing, go to doctor immediately if you ever listen at that volume.

 And I'm using a low impedance and sensitive AD900s which pick up just about everything.


----------



## paara

Is the amp used in the compass similar to any of the Audio-gd amps?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

A tone control ? Dear god no...that's a bad idea, period. 

 Update: Just one more rotation of the ref CD set for the MK III and I'll have the evaluations completed. The rough notes (22 pages thus far) will then have to be edited with the conclusions written and then posted.

 I can't guarantee a specific time for the review being posted but I will work hard tonight and tomorrow to get it done as fast as I can. It's been a huge undertaking and I want to do it right, so no corners will be cut to save a few hours here and there. Basically I've listened to this amp non stop for 9 days now (off and on about 130 hrs of the 255 hrs I now have on it, not counting the 100 Kingwa put on it before shipment). I have a very good handle on it's SQ and the burn in process it is still going through.

 I think what needs to be said about "changes" requested is this. Please suggest reasonable low cost,low labor changes as opposed to changes that will require new pcb's, additional parts that will in turn require major changes to the chassis...let's keep these suggestions in the "realm of possibility" in relation to the parameters just outlined. The unit's cost must be kept at or below a set number such that Kingwa makes a profit on the units after the promo price period has elapsed. The addition of the copper/gold RCA jacks alone is a big upgrade and a laudable one from everyone's perspective I would imagine....anymore costly add ons IMO are superfluous and frankly taking advantage of an already amazing situation. How many times does the readership get this kind of opportunity and influence ? Let's not kill the goose that lays the golden egg. IMO of course.

 These are my personal thoughts on the proceedings thus far. If Kingwa decides to do nothing more than add the high quality jacks,the preamp function, gain toggle and tweak the gain settings then I'd say that's a done deal for this amp/dac. End of requests. I'd be totally satisfied with those changes in the V2 product. 


 How about this compromise for gain structure...9/15 or 10/16 ?

 So far the changes that are happening for sure are

 1) Gain toggle addition
 2) Preamp function added
 3) RCA jack upgraded
 4) Gain structure changed
 Maybes.....
 5) Soft settings tweaked and or reduced in number from 3 to 2 choices.
 6) ?

 How about we set a date for a final V2 feature list and then vote on that ? 4 days from now since time is of the essence. That's plenty of time to narrow down options from mild to wild.

 Now for some Compass observations from the listening tests.....

 After considerable time with a mature Earth HDAM in the DAC section I think the mentioned "bright" setting would be a mistake. So I say absolutely no need for a bright setting. Remember I'm saying this using HD650s which some say are dark in nature to begin with.

 Those with Grados should comment on the Neutral/Earth combination please to further explore or investigate the current base voicing. This is also important to report WRT other cans beyond the 650's. We need comment on the units base SQ's more than the current discussion on features. 

 My opinions will be posted soon enough but we need a lot more input than just my contribution. Even if your views are but a paragraph or two that is better than nothing.

 I have to get back to work now and have said what I want to say. These thoughts and suggestions are mine alone and in no way are meant to admonish or disrespect other members present. I'm merely stating what I feel needs to be stated.

 Peete.


 PS I will be adding the impressions and comparisons of the audio-gd mains cable/Canare COAX , the SUN V2 and the soft settings after the main review has been posted. As they are completed they will be added.

 The main focus of the current review centers around the Earth/Neutral setting using the best source and cabling I have on hand. The playing field for the comparisons is equal and repeatable without too much reconfiguration between tests and comparisons needed (saving a little time for me ). This will really give one the base voicing anyway and is the starting point for anyone buying a Compass, I feel. I had to make this decision early on since the inclusion of these variable might mean an additional 2 weeks of testing to complete so I made the choice to concentrate on the base qualities everyone will have.


----------



## csroc

crap I typed up a response and hit the back button

 I'd be happy to make a new poll where we can vote on what changes we all feel are most important beyond the already known/confirmed changes. I just need to know what all those ideas are!

 I also happen to agree with your point Peete that the more changes we come up with the longer this could take.


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, kind of thick because actually it has 5 separate wires braided together (2 +, 2 - and 1 ground) and not 3, I can say that because apart from fitted cables, I also bought from Kingwa, bare ones, so I can see it ..._

 

Hey Sandchak,

 Would you be able to post a photo in here of the power cable braid from Audio GD ? I'm interested how it's made as I make my own 3 braid interconnects using CAT 6 Network wire ...

 Cheers,
 Gavin ...


----------



## Joeoboe

Peete, 
 Do you know if the confirmed changes include the relay Kingwa mentioned adding for the preamp function? I am not a big fan of relays and would prefer a nice clean circuit. This would mean people would have to switch to the low gain setting manually when using the preamp.


----------



## csroc

I think he was planning to put in a relay. I have no idea whether that's in the signal path, I haven't put any thought in to how that would have to be wired.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I don't know for sure Joe but I think it'll be the manual toggle and no relay. Personally I think that's the best way to tackle it and keep costs to a minimum. 

 As I suggested earlier...simply orient the toggles in such a way that both up means preamp engaged and gain set at (lower setting). You don't need to look to know it's set correctly. The toggle on the left could be for gain and one right next to it the pre/headphone selector. Again you could easily switch back and forth this way without having to look.

 As far as the V2 changes are concerned and narrowing them down to a final set to vote on...my list has entries for 2 extras (5 and 6, 5 is just a suggestion and is up fro grabs as is 6 with the ? mark)...I think beyond the initial 4 those last 2 could be settled rather quickly. I think as it stands now anything beyond 6 changes is asking for too much....again IMHO.



 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think he was planning to put in a relay. I have no idea whether that's in the signal path, I haven't put any thought in to how that would have to be wired._

 

I don't see him doing much to the signal path, no matter how much it is asked for.

 .


----------



## csroc

From what I understand Kingwa is already committed to those first four changes. I would agree that adding more than two or three more could be pushing for a bit much. 

 I don't think we need to vote on those first four, but I can set up some sort of poll where we have a list of additional changes and people can rank them by most preferred. The most popular will have the highest combined score and I can share that ranking with you and Kingwa and he can decide how many to implement.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I would imagine Gav...it's a twisted pair for L and N and a single run for the GND/Earth terminal. If there is a shield and or drain wire integral to the original wiring (separate from the gnd run) that "drain" is connected at the plug end ONLY and not at the IEC.

 That's the normal method for most of the DIY types I've done thus far. 

 The usual number of twists is something like 4-6 per foot (for the L and N pairs).
 Just my opinion though. There's loads of info on this kind of thing online...have a look when you have an opportunity.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Ok, but to be thorough, so that everyone understands what is set in stone, include those changes in the poll so there are no duplicate suggestions that will already be a part of the first four.

 Doe that make sense ?

 Sounds good to me csroc 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## csroc

No worries Prickly, I plan to do that. I think I may also include a text entry field just in case someone comes up with something new or has some thoughts they want to share. 

 Also it makes people think I care and will listen to them, even if I just ignore the comments they enter.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I understand Kingwa is already committed to those first four changes. I would agree that adding more than two or three more could be pushing for a bit much. 

 I don't think we need to vote on those first four, but I can set up some sort of poll where we have a list of additional changes and people can rank them by most preferred. The most popular will have the highest combined score and I can share that ranking with you and Kingwa and he can decide how many to implement._

 

I think the other point to keep in mind is we are helping develop the Compass. We are telling Audio-gd what we like and what is important to us. He'll know what he wants to implement and what he doesn't. He'll know how to hit his price point. The man thing is to produce the leader in this price bracket. People ask for some of these features all the time in the forums.

 That being said, I think with the way it runs out now, he has the feature set to beat out most every other product I've seen. Build quality also. Service. And it seems Sound Quality! He listened to his customers and produced a Great Product, go figure!


----------



## csroc

I agree with you les. We (well I came to the party late) have been pivotal in developing and designing this product. 

 I want this poll to make it easier for Kingwa to ascertain what ideas are coming up and how popular they are. Since he originally suggested I set up a poll for the previous questions, I think doing this one will continue along that same path and be easier for him than trying to keep track of everything submitted via email or commented on here. 

 Individual feedback is great via those channels but it can get overwhelming. I hope a poll will provide some consistency in the verbiage of the results and hopefully make things a little faster and easier for everyone.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't see him doing much to the signal path, no matter how much it is asked for.

 ._

 

I hope the signal path is left as is,the base unit's SQ is superb IMO. It easily outdoes ...er...never mind, you'll have to wait for the review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No worries Prickly, I plan to do that. I think I may also include a text entry field just in case someone comes up with something new or has some thoughts they want to share. 

 Also it makes people think I care and will listen to them, even if I just ignore the comments they enter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hehe cool...

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


 I hope the signal path is left as is,the base unit's SQ is superb IMO. It easily outdoes units costing 5 times as much! 
 

right? RIGHT!?


----------



## Joeoboe

I agree. Although we are helping, clearly this is not s democtratic process. Kingwa decides what he wants to implement depending on his design preference and business model. That is fine with me. I think he did a great job on the prototype and whatever he decides is likely to be just wonderful. Although I have sent him ideas, I would never send him a "list of demands" regarding features. He is a pro and will look at all his options and make decisions accordingly. And if, like in the case of which button to put on front, he wants specific input, I am sure he will ask. 
 Based on what he wrote on the website, he is doing a edesign of the board to make the gain switch possible. If this is the case, then now is the time if anyone has suggestions, to make them. Don't wait until AFTER he redesigns the board.


----------



## csroc

Right, so please post up all your suggestions here as soon as possible (please list them and explain them if need be) so that I can put together the poll!


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about we set a date for a final V2 feature list and then vote on that ? 4 days from now since time is of the essence. That's plenty of time to narrow down options from mild to wild.
 ._

 

Peete,
 I was just re-reading your post ( you usually have important info and thoughtful stuff to say). Regarding "time is of the essence", I am wondering if you have info about a deadline that Kingwa has given us. I agree it is important to make sure that any more modifications to the boards should be thought of BEFORE he lays it all out and sends it to manufacturing. I just thought we had a little more time to mull this all over but I certainly could have missed something ( which is why I re-read posts!)


----------



## csroc

Well I too wonder how much longer we have to provide ideas to Kingwa if he wants to have V2 ready to go by the end of the month.

 Joe, obviously your suggestion for a switch customization board will be on my list of poll items.

 The current list of proposed changes which we can vote on consists of
Soft settings tweaked and or reduced in number from 3 to 2 choices.
Bright setting.
PCB for user switch customization.

 Please tell me more ideas!


----------



## Joeoboe

Here is my current list.

 1.Make the lower gain setting standard and add an even lower gain below that one. Kingwa was talking about adding a relay to adjust the gain lower when it is used as a preamp because the high gain setting is too high for preamp use.. Running 2 lower gain settings would eliminate this added complexity.

 2.The current selector switch has 4 positions... but only 3 settings so one position is blank and goes to nowhere. I suggest either getting a 3 position switch or adding a BNC connector as a 4th input.

 3.On the INSIDE of the top cover, silk screen all the jumper settings so there is no need to keep a manual handy. This could also be a sticker since this will not be visible from the outside.

 4. The Soft 3 setting is too extreme. If we had a midway point between Soft 3 and Soft 2, that would be ideal for taming poor recordings without removing all the detail.

 5. Add a switch to engage a tone setting of your choice.

 6. Common connectors used for all switches so that you can plug any switch you like into any function.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I too wonder how much longer we have to provide ideas to Kingwa if he wants to have V2 ready to go by the end of the month.

 Joe, obviously your suggestion for a switch customization board will be on my list of poll items.

 The current list of proposed changes which we can vote on consists of
Soft settings tweaked and or reduced in number from 3 to 2 choices.
Bright setting.
PCB for user switch customization.

 Please tell me more ideas!_

 

I really didn't want a pc board for the switches. That was Kingwa's idea. I just wanted the switches terminated with plugs so you could attach them where you like.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really didn't want a pc board for the switches. That was Kingwa's idea. I just wanted the switches terminated with plugs so you could attach them where you like._

 

Ahh I was mistaken then!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is my current list.

 1.Make the lower gain setting standard and add an even lower gain below that one. Kingwa was talking about adding a relay to adjust the gain lower when it is used as a preamp because the high gain setting is too high for preamp use.. Running 2 lower gain settings would eliminate this added complexity.

 2.The current selector switch has 4 positions... but only 3 settings so one position is blank and goes to nowhere. I suggest either getting a 3 position switch or adding a BNC connector as a 4th input.

 3.On the INSIDE of the top cover, silk screen all the jumper settings so there is no need to keep a manual handy. This could also be a sticker since this will not be visible from the outside.

 4. The Soft 3 setting is too extreme. If we had a midway point between Soft 3 and Soft 2, that would be ideal for taming poor recordings without removing all the detail.

 5. Add a switch to engage a tone setting of your choice.

 6. Common connectors used for all switches so that you can plug any switch you like into any function._

 

Thanks!

 I did ask Kingwa about the 4 selector switch and he said he can't get the 3 selector Alps switch in China.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I did ask Kingwa about the 4 selector switch and he said he can't get the 3 selector Alps switch in China. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

What do think about adding another input? At least then the switch won't have a dead position. A BNC might be overkill... but maybe not. I await Peete's review of the DAC section! But even an RCA coax input would be fine.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do think about adding another input? At least then the switch won't have a dead position. A BNC might be overkill... but maybe not. I await Peete's review of the DAC section! But even an RCA coax input would be fine._

 

To be honest I didn't ask at the time since i was just asking if he could get 3 position switches. I suggest you email him and ask. I imagine adding another input would require some changes to the DAC PCB.


----------



## csroc

Just to get this on the current page, this is the current list of additional changes that have been proposed at one time or another. I am still accepting more ideas.
Soft settings tweaked and or reduced in number from 3 to 2 choices.
Put a label on the INSIDE of the top cover explaining all the jumper settings. Silkscreened or sticker would be OK.
Bright setting.
Switch for engaging your favorite tone setting.
Make the lower gain setting standard and add an even lower gain below that one.
Terminate switches in plugs (instead of having a PCB board) to allow user customization of switch functions.
Make the effect of Soft 3 slightly less pronounced.
Place small black plastic washers under the screws that hold the top plate down to protect the finish.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To be honest I didn't ask at the time since i was just asking if he could get 3 position switches. I suggest you email him and ask. I imagine adding another input would require some changes to the DAC PCB._

 

You are absolutely right . I just looked at the board. Unless he is doing a DAC redesign as well, there is no way to add another input... well no PRACTICAL way. You could hack a switch to a switch but that would add jitter at the very least... so best leave that alone. I actually enjoy some of the quirkiness of this "position 4 to nowhere". I am even growing to accept the Super switch! It is so random!


----------



## csroc

I just got some information from Kingwa in response to questions I asked earlier. It looks like the idea for this poll will have to change.

Gain will be changed to 9dB/19dB
PCB redesign is finished and no PCB for user switch customization will be added.
The front panel button will be Bypass, custom requests will be accepted but will add a week to the order process.
Kingwa does not want to use plugs for all the switches "because I think plugs will easy to drop, then the customers think our quality is worse."

 There are still suggestions we can foward to him like the under-panel label for jumpers and the black plastic washers for the top panel screws as suggested in the past.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to get this on the current page, this is the current list of additional changes that have been proposed at one time or another. I am still accepting more ideas.
Soft settings tweaked and or reduced in number from 3 to 2 choices.
Put a label on the INSIDE of the top cover explaining all the jumper settings. Silkscreened or sticker would be OK.
Bright setting.
Switch for engaging your favorite tone setting.
Make the lower gain setting standard and add an even lower gain below that one.
Terminate switches in plugs (instead of having a PCB board) to allow user customization of switch functions.
Make the effect of Soft 3 slightly less pronounced.
Place small black plastic washers under the screws that hold the top plate down to protect the finish.
_

 

Are these suggestions still going to be implemented in the upcoming version?


----------



## csroc

Simple additional pieces that require no reconfiguration of major components might be possible like the black plastic washers or the jumper label under the lid. I suspect much of the rest of that is impossible at this point. Kingwa does want to have these going soon it seems. I am sure he can only continue to spend so much time developing it and promising to sell it at the promotional price before he needs to sell it for a profit.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Simple additional pieces that require no reconfiguration of major components might be possible like the black plastic washers or the jumper label under the lid. I suspect much of the rest of that is impossible at this point. Kingwa does want to have these going soon it seems. I am sure he can only continue to spend so much time developing it and promising to sell it at the promotional price before he needs to sell it for a profit._

 


 I wouldn't Lament over it too much. I think the nail has been struck atop the proverbial head!


 .


----------



## csroc

I'm not lamenting, I'm quite happy with everything he is doing. Black plastic washers I can do myself should I so choose and the label, while nice, is no big deal (for me).

 I suppose we could do a group DIY of a sticker and washer kit if there's enough interest.


----------



## Joeoboe

For everyone who is concerned that their request wasn't filled... don't worry _too_ much. This Compass is truly a gaint killer and you will love it! Get one before Kingwa comes to his senses and charges what he should for it!


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get one before Kingwa comes to his senses and charges what he should for it!_

 

I just did!


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For everyone who is concerned that their request wasn't filled... don't worry too much. This Compass is truly a gaint killer and you will love it! Get one before Kingwa comes to his senses and charges what he should for it!_

 

Agreed. I'm still in discussion with Kingwa about a few of those items, he responded to that whole list which I emailed him. We're talking about how to implement the label for the jumper settings and he will have someone look for the black washers for the top panel tomorrow.

 I'm waiting for clarification on something involving the tone settings though.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ This Compass is truly a gaint killer and you will love it! Get one before Kingwa comes to his senses and charges what he should for it!_

 

Ive already emailed him about ordering, he says he'll ship around the end of the month


----------



## mbd2884

Gratz to all who ordered. In terms of quality of the work, and what you will receive, there is nothing else to compare to at the $258 promotional price. Honestly nothing comes close at for this price. Get it while you can for those who haven't. SQ wise I don't think you will be disappointed as I do look forward to listening to my Compass before bed each evening now. Its a real pleasure. 

 Whoever insisted on the Neutrik jack for the Compass, very happy you did. Its quite impressive, just looks very professional 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also for those who want to know, the black knobs for volume and input selection, its not plastic. Its fully aluminum, when you see it in front of you, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Tactile wise its got a great feel and you know immediately what you are touching is not plastic, has a great solid feel to it. With the right resistance for the volume control, love it.

 Even after reading the scientific papers for power cables, I still can't wrap my head around at how much difference Audio-dg's aftermarket power cable made. Its bizarre, so weird!!!!


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whoever insisted on the Neutrik jack for the Compass, very happy you did. Its quite impressive, just looks very professional 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's definitely an impressive jack. I even used one on my starving student (although I used the all black version).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For everyone who is concerned that their request wasn't filled... don't worry too much. This Compass is truly a gaint killer and you will love it! Get one before Kingwa comes to his senses and charges what he should for it!_

 

I absolutely agree this unit IS a giant killer. No question.


 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got some information from Kingwa in response to questions I asked earlier. It looks like the idea for this poll will have to change.

Gain will be changed to 9dB/19dB
PCB redesign is finished and no PCB for user switch customization will be added.
The front panel button will be Bypass, custom requests will be accepted but will add a week to the order process.
Kingwa does not want to use plugs for all the switches "because I think plugs will easy to drop, then the customers think our quality is worse."

 There are still suggestions we can foward to him like the under-panel label for jumpers and the black plastic washers for the top panel screws as suggested in the past._

 

I have to admit, I am very happy to have the Compass before the PCB had to be redesigned to add in a gain switch. Yeah its not a big deal, but the less the better IMO. Glad mine doesn't have this hehe!


----------



## csroc

Haha I'm amazed you're happy with the 13dB with the AD900s, I find it to be too high!


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha I'm amazed you're happy with the 13dB with the AD900s, I find it to be too high!_

 

Oh I keep Foobar2000 at about -15 dB, maybe that's why it doesn't bother me.


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I absolutely agree this unit IS a giant killer. No question._

 

This just gave me shivers. It's going to be a long wait.

 As a little side exploration, I thought I'd dredge up an old topic that was only mostly beaten to death here: attempting to prove (or disprove) burn-in. I don't place much stock in frequency graphs, so I'm not planning to do any of that sort of testing with my Compass, but it occurred to me that another method should yield a fairly definitive answer to the question. What if I record the output of my Compass (once I receive it) at different stages of burn-in, and then hold a public A/B test in a separate thread here on Head-Fi? The recordings probably wouldn't be of much value in terms of understanding the exact changes that might occur, but should be fairly definitive in terms of whether or not changes did occur.

 Is this a complete waste of time? If so, tell me and I'll zip it. Otherwise, I can start a new thread for this, and any interested in the experiment can begin discussing the setup there.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh I keep Foobar2000 at about -15 dB, maybe that's why it doesn't bother me._

 

Ahh. I don't seem to have control over that with every program I use with ASIO and a digital connection.


----------



## mbd2884

We should really be careful about A/B testing and well about burn-in in general as Head-Fi have had to implement certain rules because this topic is just ready to burst into flames. 

 Conclusion for me: Burn-In is subjective and its up to the listener to decide for himself/herself if its a reality or not. No need to go into such in depth discussion, especially in a Compass thread.

 There is a scientific discussion forum for that kind of thing. If you want to do that, I urge you to consider posting your idea dn results there.

 Lets really try to keep this thread about the Compass, not burn-in or graphs.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahh. I don't seem to have control over that with every program I use with ASIO and a digital connection._

 

Hmm weird. I use ASIO output also in Foobar2K, with no re-sampling.


----------



## csroc

I haven't been using Foobar a lot but I'll probably be using it more just to have more control over that. Still I'll take a reduced gain but that would be an easy way to solve the problem.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This just gave me shivers. It's going to be a long wait.

 As a little side exploration, I thought I'd dredge up an old topic that was only mostly beaten to death here: attempting to prove (or disprove) burn-in. I don't place much stock in frequency graphs, so I'm not planning to do any of that sort of testing with my Compass, but it occurred to me that another method should yield a fairly definitive answer to the question. What if I record the output of my Compass (once I receive it) at different stages of burn-in, and then hold a public A/B test in a separate thread here on Head-Fi? The recordings probably wouldn't be of much value in terms of understanding the exact changes that might occur, but should be fairly definitive in terms of whether or not changes did occur.

 Is this a complete waste of time? If so, tell me and I'll zip it. Otherwise, I can start a new thread for this, and any interested in the experiment can begin discussing the setup there._

 

This would work in theory, but I kinda doubt you would have the gear to make it work in practice. Burn-in is happening with the Compass (at least, to me it is, without a shred of doubt), but the problem is that the areas where burn-in occurs are all in those areas that are the most difficult to reproduce and probably even more difficult to capture in a re-recording. Such areas are: grain (also related to sibilance), soundstage, separation, instrument colour, etc. Then there might also be an additional problem, because it could be that the burn-in effects occur are most noticeable only in interaction with headphones.

 You're free to try. But if you (or others) fail to notice the burn-in effect in your recordings of the process, it's hard to think of a way to set this up where the most parsimonious explanation of this would actually lie with burn-in and not with re-recording fidelity.

 (Pffff, hard to put this in words when English is not your native language. Also, it's 6 o'clock in the morning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh I keep Foobar2000 at about -15 dB, maybe that's why it doesn't bother me._

 

Isn't this actually a reduction in sound quality as well? I don't know that much about Foobar2000, but I've read somewhere that reducing the volume actually eats into the bit-resolution of the output. I could be wrong about this, of course.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I absolutely agree this unit IS a giant killer. No question._

 

Yup, it's getting hard to stop myself from just ordering another Compass. I want more of this loveliness in my house.

 Regarding the bright setting. (Leaving aside the question whether this is still up for change or not, because that isn't exactly clear to me anymore.) As far as I remember, it was only Currawong who thought this was neccessary, or to be more precise, found the highs to be somewhat muted in the Compass. My question to Curra is, just out of curiosity, do you still feel this is a neccessary addition?


----------



## csroc

I'm not sure if those changes are a possibility or not, I'm a little unclear on that still from what Kingwa has said to me so far. Either way I don't need to see tone changes, the existing modifications would be enough to more than satisfy me! Add the little plastic washers and a label/instructions on the underside of the lid and I'd call it basically perfection for my needs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm just not looking forward to having to deal with shipping mine back since my friend wants to order a new one rather than buy mine.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure if those changes are a possibility or not, I'm a little unclear on that still from what Kingwa has said to me so far. Either way I don't need to see tone changes, the existing modifications would be enough to more than satisfy me!_

 

Not very relevant to me either. Up till now I've never felt the need to listen to something other than Earth and Neutral. It's perfect.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm just not looking forward to having to deal with shipping mine back since my friend wants to order a new one rather than buy mine._

 

Well, there's still option number three...but that might not be for you.


----------



## csroc

That isn't really for me because I do want some features of the new Compass, most notably the lowered gain. I have no use for the preamp feature now but I will be happy to have it for the "what if" situations that might arise in the future as well. Overall it's just got some tweaks I want and will use so I'll be swapping it out, it just looks like I'm stuck with option 1.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is my current list.

 3.On the INSIDE of the top cover, silk screen all the jumper settings so there is no need to keep a manual handy. This could also be a sticker since this will not be visible from the outside._

 

Prob not a sticker, I know in my zero the heat made the stickers of my HDAMs fall off...


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Prob not a sticker, I know in my zero the heat made the stickers of my HDAMs fall off..._

 

That's interesting. I didn't know that. I haven't opened mine to look since I put my Earth in.

 For what it's worth though this sticker will probably be stuck on much better than the one on the HDAM which doesn't seem to be attached to much.


----------



## WallyPower

Hi guys,

 This is my first post so I'm not completly familiair with this. To make things even worse, English is not my native tongue so I'm bound to make some mistakes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But, I do have some suggestions to make for improving the Compass.
 Someone mentioned a locking optical input. I think this would be something nice and cheap to add. Also, it would increase, IMO, the quality feel off the Compass.
 On top of that, I also think that replacing the black knobs by silver ones would improve the looks of it. I don't know if this is possible or fits within the budget.

 WallyPower


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup, it's getting hard to stop myself from just ordering another Compass. I want more of this loveliness in my house.

 Regarding the bright setting. (Leaving aside the question whether this is still up for change or not, because that isn't exactly clear to me anymore.) As far as I remember, it was only Currawong who thought this was neccessary, or to be more precise, found the highs to be somewhat muted in the Compass. My question to Curra is, just out of curiosity, do you still feel this is a neccessary addition?_

 

I think I posted 3 times already that I never suggested the treble be muted in the Compass in the first place. I was trying to nail down an issue I was having with my C2C, which turned out to be my Denons (which after modding can be a little sibilant), and Kingwa mistook it as saying I thought there was a fault, resulting in a _very_ slight treble attenuation in the Compass.

 Gah, the whole treble thing annoys me now. However, I just switched from my Northstar/C2C rig to the Compass (w/Earth, and stock power cable) to test something and was surprised with the lack of big difference between them.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I posted 3 times already that I never suggested the treble be muted in the Compass in the first place. I was trying to nail down an issue I was having with my C2C, which turned out to be my Denons (which after modding can be a little sibilant), and Kingwa mistook it as saying I thought there was a fault, resulting in a very slight treble attenuation in the Compass. Gah, the whole treble thing annoys me now._

 

Sorry, sorry, won't mention it again.


----------



## csroc

Haha what a confusing mess that created then. No treble issues then. 

 Sounds like Kingwa will be eliminating any treble attenuation in the Compass then? I'm not sure, I haven't asked.

 Also I forgot about the locking optical jack when I was talking with Kingwa... oops! If someone wants to email him, tell him a bunch of us are interested, and suggest he see if he can replace the stock optical jack with a locking one I'd say go for it, I've already been bugging him enough lately probably


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was this via optical or coax?_

 

Optical. I don't have anything with coax digital out


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Isn't this actually a reduction in sound quality as well? I don't know that much about Foobar2000, but I've read somewhere that reducing the volume actually eats into the bit-resolution of the output. I could be wrong about this, of course._

 

I can't hear any difference. Because its ASIO output, it disables Windows Volume control, so changing volume in windows doesn't do anything for Foobar. The volume on it is just Foobar Volume. I can open Windows Volume Control, well my Realtek Volume and nothing happens when I change any of em.

 But googled volume reduce quality in Foobar and nothing showed up.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't hear any difference. Because its ASIO output, it disables Windows Volume control, so changing volume in windows doesn't do anything for Foobar. The volume on it is just Foobar Volume. I can open Windows Volume Control, well my Realtek Volume and nothing happens when I change any of em.

 But googled volume reduce quality in Foobar and nothing showed up._

 

Funny, I can't find anything in a quick search either. But I could have sworn I read it somewhere (doesn't mean it was correct of course). 

 Just a few days ago I managed to get ASIO working flawlessly on my computer as well. I was rather surprised how audible the improvement was over ordinary USB. Although even coax digital out from just a cheap dvd-player still beats it in sound quality though. Of course, YMMV depending on your computer (mine appears to be rather noisy in interference terms).


----------



## Shoreman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Isn't this actually a reduction in sound quality as well? I don't know that much about Foobar2000, but I've read somewhere that reducing the volume actually eats into the bit-resolution of the output. *I could be wrong about this, of course.*_

 

You're not.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As a little side exploration, I thought I'd dredge up an old topic that was only mostly beaten to death here: attempting to prove (or disprove) burn-in. I don't place much stock in frequency graphs, so I'm not planning to do any of that sort of testing with my Compass, but it occurred to me that another method should yield a fairly definitive answer to the question. What if I record the output of my Compass (once I receive it) at different stages of burn-in, and then hold a public A/B test in a separate thread here on Head-Fi? The recordings probably wouldn't be of much value in terms of understanding the exact changes that might occur, but should be fairly definitive in terms of whether or not changes did occur.

 Is this a complete waste of time? If so, tell me and I'll zip it. Otherwise, I can start a new thread for this, and any interested in the experiment can begin discussing the setup there._

 

I think it's a great burn-in experiment, even though it may not prove/disprove burn-in by itself. But at the least the experiment will disprove false trails (which it may itself be) and that justifies any such experiment, considering how little we know about burn-in (and it's 2009 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). And the fact that it takes headphones out of the question is a good thing, because most people unintentionally burn in their headphones while trying to burn in a dac/amp.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's interesting. I didn't know that. I haven't opened mine to look since I put my Earth in.

 For what it's worth though this sticker will probably be stuck on much better than the one on the HDAM which doesn't seem to be attached to much._

 

Plus, it depends on the characteristics of the adhesive. There are certainly stickers places on engine parts that don't melt off when heated. So, a sticker is certainly possible ( and cheaper). Silk screening would be cooler of course!


----------



## mbd2884

Will install WinAmp tonight with ASIO, and disable software volume control and compare to Foobar2K and see if there is a difference


----------



## csroc

Well you could just disable your volume adjustments in foobar.


----------



## tj2220

Looking forward to upgraded version.
 How about another phones out (or ear out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) jack for the mrs?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well you could just disable your volume adjustments in foobar._

 

Yeah, but as you already indicated, he might have a harder time listening to his AD900 from the Compass then.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tj2220* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looking forward to upgraded version.
 How about another phones out (or ear out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) jack for the mrs?_

 

Yah, or perhaps a cupholder.


----------



## tj2220

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yah, or perhaps a cupholder._

 

Well, la-di-dah mr hifier than thou!


----------



## shampoosuicide

Does the DAC100 have optical input?

 Cause on the Audio-gd page, I see only USB and coax........


----------



## haloxt

No it doesn't.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I've started the formal write up....just to let you guys know. 

 Peete.


----------



## K3cT

I can't wait on it Pricklely Peete, though I've decided to order one anyway.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've started the formal write up....just to let you guys know. 

 Peete._

 

Its going to be one of those nights when I am looking forward to the next day - my experience is that I have a restless night.. Thanks Peete..


----------



## csroc

Peete it better be done in 12 hours!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, but as you already indicated, he might have a harder time listening to his AD900 from the Compass then._

 

I know, I'm just trying to figure out what purpose installing Winamp would perform (not that there's anything wrong with Winamp, I like it).


----------



## Drosera

Don't let 'em pressure you Peete, masterpieces like this take time.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Jeez I better live up to the accolades....the pressure in ON 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 csroc...I hope this doesn't take 12 hours to complete....but you may be not far off the mark with that estimate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's interesting. I didn't know that. I haven't opened mine to look since I put my Earth in.

 For what it's worth though this sticker will probably be stuck on much better than the one on the HDAM which doesn't seem to be attached to much._

 

Mark the Board with a Sharpie, you pick the Color!


 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WallyPower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 This is my first post so I'm not completly familiair with this. To make things even worse, English is not my native tongue so I'm bound to make some mistakes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But, I do have some suggestions to make for improving the Compass.
 Someone mentioned a locking optical input. I think this would be something nice and cheap to add. Also, it would increase, IMO, the quality feel off the Compass.
 On top of that, I also think that replacing the black knobs by silver ones would improve the looks of it. I don't know if this is possible or fits within the budget.

 WallyPower_

 

Hi Wally,
 Welcome! And your first post is in the Compass thread! Well, the Knob colors are a personal preference issue. I like the black ones. I would say start watching Ebay for knobs you like. I'm waiting for some for another piece of Gear. A lot of these knobs come from China/Asia.

 Those knobs Kingwa is using are Obviously first class. You can tell from the Pix alone. Most of the Chinese gear has pretty dismal knobs on them.

 .


----------



## gevorg

I see that the Compass has a "Line IN" RCA inputs in the back, while the selector on the front is only for three digital sources. What is the "Line IN" for and is it possible to use the Compass as headamp only?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see that the Compass has a "Line IN" RCA inputs in the back, while the selector on the front is only for three digital sources. What is the "Line IN" for and is it possible to use the Compass as headamp only?_

 

To use the line in on the rear you push the Super (AKA bypass and soon to be relabeled to Bypass I think) switch. That disconnects the amp from the DAC and then the amp will work with whatever is connected to the RCA inputs.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To use the line in on the rear you push the Super (AKA bypass and soon to be relabeled to Bypass I think) switch. That disconnects the amp from the DAC and then the amp will work with whatever is connected to the RCA inputs._

 


 Hmmm, we could have called it the "Disco" Button! If only we had more time!


 .


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like Kingwa will be eliminating any treble attenuation in the Compass then? I'm not sure, I haven't asked._

 

Personally, to my ears and with my gear, I'd want the sound(of the DAC) to be very much left as it was on the pre-production units. It's sublime, smooth yet detailed... utterly perfect.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Absolutely agreed AP !!!!

 Just taking a 5 min breather....to eat dinner 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## D.C.

Peete you can do it....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Curra how is your review comming along, can't wait for the comparison with the DAC1(if you have it ofcourse)


----------



## jjlucas76

I have tried the OPA627BP on my headamp to replace a couple of AD797AN and the difference was quiet stunning in terms of speed and quality, but the bass and the sound coming from dark were missing. lucky for me I have ordered together with them a couple of AD797BRZ and 2 nice SOIC to DIP converters. 

 The results? uhm I need to say that who was saying that the AD797BRZ are better then the OPA627BP was right and I can only confirm that they actually have both qualities from the OPA627BP and the AD797AN. Excellent choice for your preamp or DAC.

 Cheers.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_True, but there's a serious lack of evidence either way. And it's all so bloody subjective. One man's night and day difference might be undetectable to someone else. The only way to really prove anything would be to measure the output and see if it changes over time.



 Well, you're certainly making me curious. I'm already looking forward to trying out some other op-amps in the future. Lovely, the solid-state equivalent of tube-rolling._


----------



## Pricklely Peete

One thing is certain...I may tie or take the record for largest post on Head Fi when this review is done. I have all the pics and everything to insert...all the fonts to redo etc...looks good in the preview feature thus far...

 Righto break over...if you see my green dot on...that's me checking the preview of the work done thus far...doesn't mean I'm reading the forum....just so you know in case your asking questions and wondering why I'm not answering....

 Peete.


----------



## D.C.

Peete you are killin us man, I have Uni tomorow. There is no way I'll go sleepin now


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sorry DC that certainly isn't my intention to have you guys on the edge of your seats. 

 I'm thinking I'll have to pull an all nighter to get it done and posted by 9 am Thursday morning. I will let you guys know as I complete stages. I'm only at 25% done at the moment so it's gonna be a long night....don't wait up for me in other words. Sometime tomorrow morning I'll be done I figure, barring any unforeseen disasters ( I'm backing things up every 20 minutes to prevent such a thing to a USB key drive...I'm not taking ANY chances with this monster ).

 Peete.


----------



## D.C.

Peete dont overwork yourself man. Its cool when ever it comes out. Some of us act like lil kids waiting for candy lol. Anyways no presure take your time we all know its gonna be great.


----------



## csroc

Peete you're running out of time! Remember, I gave you 12 hours.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Personally, to my ears and with my gear, I'd want the sound(of the DAC) to be very much left as it was on the pre-production units. It's sublime, smooth yet detailed... utterly perfect.

 ~Phewl._

 

I have no problems with it either, I don't think anything needs fooling with.


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To use the line in on the rear you push the Super (AKA bypass and soon to be relabeled to Bypass I think) switch. That disconnects the amp from the DAC and then the amp will work with whatever is connected to the RCA inputs._

 

Cool! This will make it very easy and quick to compare to other DACs.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

whoops hit submit instead of preview...sorry folks had to pull it...it's not done. 33% done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete you're running out of time! Remember, I gave you 12 hours.



 I have no problems with it either, I don't think anything needs fooling with._

 

12 hours to finish the testing.... I'm no longer testing....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete.


----------



## gevorg

A question for those of you who are using the Compass in neutral mode.

 Does Compass sounds analytical, cold or fatiguing over the long listening sessions? This is how DAC1 sounds to me, so I'm wondering how different the Compass would be. I prefer the sound to be musical with no signs of "digitis".


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A question for those of you who are using the Compass in neutral mode.

 Does Compass sounds analytical, cold or fatiguing over the long listening sessions? This is how DAC1 sounds to me, so I'm wondering how different the Compass would be. I prefer the sound to be musical with no signs of "digitis"._

 

Nope not in the least...you can listen as long as you can stay awake...no fatigue whatsoever. IMO anyway.

 It's detailed and smooth while retaining a good balance between neutral and warm..... a slight warmth though. Emphasis is on slight.

 I find it just right....like baby bear's bowl of porridge from Goldilocks and The Three Bears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_12 hours to finish the testing.... I'm no longer testing....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete._

 

No no, that was for completing the entire review and having it posted so I could read it!


----------



## mbd2884

While I was browsing the Computer Audio forum, I read a bunch of threads of which media players Head-Fiers used and some comparisons. Media Monkey popped up a few times.

 So I'm using Media Monkey with ASIO output from Otachan version .67 SSE2. It was a lot easier to setup to use with ASIO4All than Foobar2000. In fact I'll stretch farther, its much easier to use than Foobar2000 in just about in every way. Its a lot more pleasing to the eyes a plus.

 It is still compatible with the MAD mp3 decoder, and yes it definitely sounds different. Seems to have dither built into the decoder and sounds as if it already has a EQ setting within it also. I can't tell if the quality has decreased, but the bass is sounds the same as if I used an EQ on Foobar2000, but its cleaner. Seems there is plenty of debate about MAD, many love it, some don't, like anything Audio.

 With Media Monkey, once you use ASIO output, there is no software volume control. Yes with volume control disabled, I have to admit to get very full volume on the DAC its at 8 o Clock.

 As for Foobar2000, I hear no degradation of sound as I decrease volume on it. The volume control on Foobar2000 must be different from Media Monkey or WinAmp, I can't disable it. And read somewhere else saying it couldn't be disabled either. At least with version .9.6.2

 Looking forward to your review Peete.


----------



## bordins

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looking forward to your review Peete._

 

X2


----------



## Currawong

I've re-booked a DAC1 listening session for Sunday (Saturday US/EU time), so I can complete my review. I think I wont be able to compete with PP's review though, which will be epic.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Personally, to my ears and with my gear, I'd want the sound(of the DAC) to be very much left as it was on the pre-production units. It's sublime, smooth yet detailed... utterly perfect.

 ~Phewl._

 

Don't worry over it so much, the difference is so small I doubt you'd notice. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjlucas76* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have tried the OPA627BP on my headamp to replace a couple of AD797AN and the difference was quiet stunning in terms of speed and quality, but the bass and the sound coming from dark were missing. lucky for me I have ordered together with them a couple of AD797BRZ and 2 nice SOIC to DIP converters. 

 The results? uhm I need to say that who was saying that the AD797BRZ are better then the OPA627BP was right and I can only confirm that they actually have both qualities from the OPA627BP and the AD797AN. Excellent choice for your preamp or DAC.

 Cheers._

 

Where did you get your AD797BRZ and adaptors from? I'd really like to try this opamp.


----------



## inF

Hello,

 "_Compass price is USD258.
 SHipping cost is USD80.
 Paypal handling charge is 4%.
 Total price is USD351.52.
 We will affirm the Compass price is USD50 for your custom, but I don't know how much tax you need to pay._"

 could somebody explain the last USD50 part?

 Thank you.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Don't worry about it Curra (competing with mine). I'm looking forward to your review and I'm pretty darn sure it will be a really good informative piece. 

 I'm really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the N-Star and the Benchmark DAC 1.

 Your review IMO is another critical piece of the puzzle. Is it Lobster Stan's DAC 1 ? I forget who you said had it ....

 Peete.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *inF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 "Compass price is USD258.
 SHipping cost is USD80.
 Paypal handling charge is 4%.
 Total price is USD351.52.
 We will affirm the Compass price is USD50 for your custom, but I don't know how much tax you need to pay."

 could somebody explain the last USD50 part?

 Thank you._

 

He means the declared value for the package will be 50USD, for customs/tax purposes and not the full value, to avoid big taxes in countries that do charge them.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *inF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 "Compass price is USD258.
 SHipping cost is USD80.
 Paypal handling charge is 4%.
 Total price is USD351.52.
 We will affirm the Compass price is USD50 for your custom, but I don't know how much tax you need to pay."

 could somebody explain the last USD50 part?

 Thank you._

 

That's the declaration value Kingwa wrote for Customs processing once the unit arrives in your country. 

 Listing it at 50US is doing you a rather large favor.

 Peete.

 Dang it DaMneD ya beat me to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




........Nice to see you BTW !


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you get your AD797BRZ and adaptors from? I'd really like to try this opamp._

 

I got mine from Newark. They're also available from Digi-Key. I used a Browndog 2xSoic-8 to Dip-8 adapter: Single-to-dual Op-Amp Adapter (p/n 020302)

 In my D1's L/R, they produced astounding, _aggressive_ bass that was rather addictive. They left the highs a little wanting, though I suppose that was a good fit with the DT-880.


----------



## sandchak

Ok, here is a little offbeat message among all the technical posts, I had this feeling lately and I thought I should key it down – although I hope it doesn’t sound like an obituary!!

 Looking back, to me this really has been a celebration of audio.. it all started with Curra’s novel idea ,Kingwa taking up the gauntlet and Peete’s unflappable dedication.. Of course we have all also chipped in our bits to give life to Compass.

 I am absolutely sure there may be gears out there in the market which would give Compass a run for the money at the price it will finally be, although I doubt at this price, but personally to me it’s almost become a secondary issue, because I am sure not many or any gears we know of has come to life like Compass has.. Honestly, I don’t want this side of the story (emotions) to cloud over the actual purpose of Compass (machine) being developed – but to say the truth actually Compass has turned out to be a freaking good piece of gear with or without any feelings attached - still personally to me it will be hard to ignore that part and no matter where I end up in the ladder, compass will be very special.

 Well, I don’t want to sound like a big fart – pardon me if I already am sounding like one – but I personally would like to thank everyone for giving me this tremendous experience.


----------



## idunno

not an obituary nor flatulence...

 simply the lead-in to get us revved up for the big show (namely Peete's review)


----------



## csroc

I think Peete has failed to meet my 12 hour deadline now.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think Peete has failed to meet my 12 hour deadline now._

 

I hope you're not disappointed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He said he might pull an all-nighter and post it at 9 o'clock in the morning. (So that's still 7 hours from now.) You gotta admire the dedication. It could also be that he's fallen asleep at the keyboard of course.

 Speaking of reviews. Is there any chance you could do a comparison between the Compass DAC and the DAC of your NAD cd player? Might be interesting.


----------



## csroc

I have not even moved the Compass over to where my NAD is. If I had the money I might just buy a new version outright and move one of them over there, but I don't so my Starving Student will play alternative amp duties when I don't use the HP output from my NAD amp.

 I need a new computer chair more than I need another Compass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll play around with it and see if I can discern any particular differences.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi guys....I'm beat and need some sleep. 

 So it's off to bed for me. I'll be back at it first thing in the morning.

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have not even moved the Compass over to where my NAD is. If I had the money I might just buy a new version outright and move one of them over there, but I don't so my Starving Student will play alternative amp duties when I don't use the HP output from my NAD amp._

 

See if you can get round to it. If it doesn't work out, I might be able to try a comparison with my NAD C541. But the problems with the transport there are such, that I would have to unscrew the whole transport section just to get a cd in there. Rather cumbersome.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need a new computer chair more than I need another Compass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You really need to get your priorities straight, you know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys....I'm beat and need some sleep. So it's off to bed for me. I'll be back at it first thing in the morning._

 

Goodnight Peete!


----------



## B00MERS00NER

my first post on this forum... if I say something like, Long time Reader - First time poster do I get like some free BBQ and Johny's CharBroiler?

 LOL its late, better cut this short - One of my house mates turned me on to this thread then after reading I've been comunicating with kingwa and I have pulled the trigger on the compass. I have some Denon AH-D5000 on the way and eager to dive into this thing.


 thanks for sharing your knowledge with us everyone and to all who contributed to this thread.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my first post on this forum... if I say something like, Long time Reader - First time poster do I get like some free BBQ and Johny's CharBroiler?

 LOL its late, better cut this short - One of my house mates turned me on to this thread then after reading I've been comunicating with kingwa and I have pulled the trigger on the compass. I have some Denon AH-D5000 on the way and eager to dive into this thing.


 thanks for sharing your knowledge with us everyone and to all who contributed to this thread._

 

Naah, you get a free walletdrain and an extra helping of upgraditis. Welcome to head-fi!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Excellent investment though, and your Denons will certainly thank you for it.


----------



## doping panda

Hey, guys. Posting for the first post too. I've been following this thread for a while and I'm pretty excited about the Compass myself. I have a question to ask though. Does anyone know how long the promotional price will last? I'm willing to take a dip into the savings account to get this, but I'd rather wait a little and get some more money if I can. By the way, I'm really looking forward to Peete's review.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I don’t want to sound like a big fart – pardon me if I already am sounding like one – but I personally would like to thank everyone for giving me this tremendous experience._

 

Nah you don't sound like one. I think you guys already achieved something big for the community, especially to those of us who just started out in this hobby.


----------



## D.C.

Guess what, first thing in the morning before i go to Uni i come to this place to see if Peete has posted his review. I see that lazy guy went to sleep like i told him but i didnt actually mean it.
 Guys i see some of you get really emotional about their Compass and thats ok cause i get emotional as well and i dont even own a Compass(wiping a tear off my cheek) hopefully i place an order this week. Thank you guys
 P.S. Has anybody got Peete's telephone number I'll call him from UK and tell him to get his lazy *** back to work
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, guys. Posting for the first post too. I've been following this thread for a while and I'm pretty excited about the Compass myself. I have a question to ask though. Does anyone know how long the promotional price will last? I'm willing to take a dip into the savings account to get this, but I'd rather wait a little and get some more money if I can. By the way, I'm really looking forward to Peete's review._

 

Welcome!

 Kingwa says (on the Compass page) that the promotional price will hold for several months. No definite deadline though. (Perhaps Kingwa wants to prevent the situation of a lot of people ordering it _just_ before the price goes up.) You have some time, but don't wait too long either.

 EDIT: By the way, it's worth dipping into your savings account for.


----------



## mbd2884

Yep I decided to keep using Media Monkey w/in_mad-0.15.1b-2.dll mp3 decoder instead of Foobar2000.

 That plugin for Media Monkey can be found at:
Plugins for MediaMonkey

 Media Monkey and Otachan seems to work with ASIO4All better than the latest version of Foobar2000 does.
 - Foobar2000 you have to setup the channel mapping, annoying as I use same laptop for work and when I go home for tunes. Also annoying since you have to setup which hardware for ASIO4All to use in ASIO4All settings also. Media Monkey with Otachan outputs straight to ASIO4All, so you don't have to channel map, just choose what hardware to use in ASIO4All and ready to go, and it also updates in real time immediately, don't need to shut down Foobar2000 and reopen. Just seems to make a little more sense also. That and you can use an mp3 decoder with this. WinAmp's, mp3123, MAD, or Media Monkey's default wmp3.

 But overall, add I really saw no difference among the three, Foobar, WinAmp and Media Monkey. Media Monkey and WinAmp have the most in common, in terms of ease of use and how they work with plugins and customization. Foobar was the most finicky and pain in the butt to use, half the time, I was just guessing what to do. Like their thread priority 1-7, vs Priority in Media or Winamp, choosing lowest or highest or real time. Hmm which is easier to comprehend? That and to find those options.. hehe. Foobar Volume Control is also different, I can't disable it. WinAmp and Media Monkey volume is disabled as soon as ASIO output is chosen. Other than that there isn't that much difference, just small things will help me made the decisions, that and honestly, Foobar2000 GUI is pretty craptastic no matter how much modding you do, check out the Foobar gallery on this forums. None of them look very good IMO. GUI is big thing for me, I just prefer it over WinAmp and Foobar right now. But I still prefer JetAudio's design the best, but no bit perfect options for it, lame. People been asking for it for 4 years running and Cowon just ignores.

 Also I am not bashing Foobar, I still have it installed, I think its an awesome player.

 Also whether quality wise my current setup is purest, I cannot say and there is a lot of debate about it. For me, MAD+Media Monkey+ASIO4All sounds the best right now. Might change later.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, guys. Posting for the first post too. I've been following this thread for a while and I'm pretty excited about the Compass myself. I have a question to ask though. Does anyone know how long the promotional price will last? I'm willing to take a dip into the savings account to get this, but I'd rather wait a little and get some more money if I can. By the way, I'm really looking forward to Peete's review._

 

Till April for sure, but after that you never know !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 DC, there is no denying it sounded quite emotional, maybe it was a lot of Pat Boone for me last evening, but one thing for sure, in many of us out here, I think there exists a sweet feeling of achievement, collaboration, or community .. the degree of which depends from person to person though..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep I decided to keep using Media Monkey w/in_mad-0.15.1b-2.dll mp3 decoder instead of Foobar2000.

 That plugin for Media Monkey can be found at:
Plugins for MediaMonkey

 Media Monkey and Otachan seems to work with ASIO4All better than the latest version of Foobar2000 does._

 

Thanks for that, I'm going to try it out.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that, I'm going to try it out._

 

Yeah would be interested if you have the same experience as I did. For those wondering MAD V.15 is also gapless supports 24 bit like Foobar's decoder does.

 Hmm will have to check later for Peete's review as I have to get ready for work. I still can't believe I just sit here listening to music and time just flies, darn stupid time, it needs a pause button.


----------



## D.C.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DC, there is no denying it sounded quite emotional, maybe it was a lot of Pat Boone for me last evening, but one thing for sure, in many of us out here, I think there exists a sweet feeling of achievement, collaboration, or community .. the degree of which depends from person to person though.._

 

sandchack I am not surprised at all. Specially you in particular had your fair share of fights in this forum at the beginning. thanks to god its all peaceful now lol. I am really happy for the guys that got the Compass first are really enjoying it.

 mbd thanks man when I get the compass I'll be all so using USB for connecting the Compass to my laptop. But i am thinking of getting the monster usb cable. Should interesting to see if there is any difference with the stock one.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my first post on this forum... if I say something like, Long time Reader - First time poster do I get like some free BBQ and Johny's CharBroiler?

 LOL its late, better cut this short - One of my house mates turned me on to this thread then after reading I've been comunicating with kingwa and I have pulled the trigger on the compass. I have some Denon AH-D5000 on the way and eager to dive into this thing.


 thanks for sharing your knowledge with us everyone and to all who contributed to this thread._

 

Welcome to Head-fi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm listening with my modified D5000s and the Compass at the moment and liking the combination.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mbd thanks man when I get the compass I'll be all so using USB for connecting the Compass to my laptop. But i am thinking of getting the monster usb cable. Should interesting to see if there is any difference with the stock one._

 

I might have to try this later down the track as well. Since the random USB cable I picked to use with the Compass appears to my ears to only be the slightest bit inferior to a $200 or so optical cable, I haven't really given it a second thought.


----------



## mbd2884

My conclusion with USB, no difference. As long as its shielded and 2.0, hell even 1.1 would work with Compass as its 16 bit 48 khz max. Definitely would not spend more than 30 dollars if you want a 6 foot, shielded, gold plated USB cable, but no more.
 - Also there is a great thread here about USB. Someone said he saw no difference between the Kimber and a well shielded 2.0 standard cable that was nickle plated. None at all. 60 dollar cable vs a 10 dollar cable.

 The only thing I found through my research is to make sure the Cable itself is shielded, and not using Ferrite berrings like the expensive Kimber Cables use. Kimber company and others use Ferrite to improve shielding numbers for their product statistics. But there seems to be enough evidence to say while Ferrite won't reduce the speed of the USB cable, it will mess up the timing though. And well with Bit-Perfect output, like myself, I'm sure you all have it set at Time Critical, so its streaming audio. If the timing is off, the timing of your music is off. Although a lot of USB DACs take this into account and compensate for it for happening.

 In the end, just go with a well shielded, 2.0 USB Cable, I kept mine to 3 FT. Kingwa also agreed, saying his DAC-100 users saw no difference between the stock cable and a 100 dollar cable.

 Just think about it, USB is pure digital data transfer cable. Its just 0s and 1s. It doesn't become a analog signal until its processed in your Compass. I think then maybe say Headphone Cable or RCA or other ICs when connecting your Compass to other Amps may make a difference. But from your USB port to the Compass, that Monster USB won't make any difference. If hear difference, I'm confident its guaranteed placebo effect.

 Also Monster Cable are very well known for fudging their cable descriptions and what they are capable of. They even go as far as rigging their demo displays of their cables, can read why Monster cables sound better in those demos and it has nothing to do with superior wiring of the Monster Cable, nothing at all.


----------



## haloxt

The difference between asio builds is actually really minor, it could drive you insane a/b'ing, but I think the current default foobar2000 asio sounds the worst of all that I've tried, with wavelab's (music editing program by same company who made asio) sounding the best, (if i'm not hallucinating) with more neutrality and umph. I'd second mbd's suggestion to try otachan asio in media monkey.


----------



## oldschool

Waiting for Peete's review to come out, but from what I've read you guys seem to prefer the Earth over the Moon OPA, right?

 Maybe a suggestion for making it the default OPA?
 Not that it matters, since you can pick any of the three, but maybe Kingwa can put some of your comments on the sound of different OPAs on the website.


----------



## haloxt

The problem is most of us haven't given a full 350 hours of burn-in yet. Our opinions of the hdam's are what we feel about hdam's that are constantly evolving.


----------



## HammerSandwich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just think about it, USB is pure digital data transfer cable. Its just 0s and 1s. It doesn't become a analog signal until its processed in your Compass._

 

Actually, the cable carries an analog waveform, and the input receiver decides when to output the 0s & 1s to the DAC. If this doesn't make sense, ask yourself why input receivers have jitter specifications.


----------



## Currawong

It's already been suggested, by the way, that the Earth HDAM be the default.

 I'm going to ask my local Stax dealer if I can bring the compass round to try with their demo K701s. I'm not sure how receptive they'll be though. Maybe if I bring some other headphones around for them to try in exchange they'll be ok with it. I want to find out if the Moon HDAM pairs well with them.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Foobar2000 GUI is pretty craptastic no matter how much modding you do, check out the Foobar gallery on this forums. None of them look very good IMO. GUI is big thing for me, I just prefer it over WinAmp and Foobar right now._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The difference between asio builds is actually really minor, it could drive you insane a/b'ing, but I think the current default foobar2000 asio sounds the worst of all that I've tried, with wavelab's (music editing program by same company who made asio) sounding the best, (if i'm not hallucinating) with more neutrality and umph. I'd second mbd's suggestion to try otachan asio in media monkey._

 

Well, tastes can differ, I guess. Just one look at Media Monkey's GUI and already hate it with a passion. It's ridiculously cluttered and looks like a cross between Windows Media Player and iTunes, things I was trying to get away from. (Not that I've ever used iTunes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) But the fact that I grew up toying with early home computers and XT's and the like (those lovely monochrome monitors) might have lot to do with the fact that I prefer functionality over looks.

 Soundwise however, both through ASIO (lossless files), Media Monkey with otachan, things are the other way around. Foobar2000 sounds somewhat lean and dry, slightly faux-analytical, probably having more to do with slight grain. Media Monkey is clearer, smoother, perhaps a little warmed over, but preferable on the whole.

 That said, differences are reasonably subtle though. But perhaps not subtle enough to make me choose foobar2000 for the (in my opinion) superior GUI. Hm, maybe I'll have to see if I can convince otachan to do a plugin for foobar2000...


----------



## mbd2884

I think the good part about Monkey Media is that it has a good skinning aspect to it. So I cannot imagine why you would not be able to customize it to how you want it to appear. But yeah I did not notice the default looks like WMP a lot.

 Also to note ASIO4All isn't true ASIO, its a wrapper. If you want true ASIO output, need to spend I think its up to 57 USD now for those drivers. Kinda messed up forcing people to pay for something that was free to the public to use. Hopefully someone can develop an open source version of those drivers someday.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the good part about Monkey Media is that it has a good skinning aspect to it. So I cannot imagine why you would not be able to customize it to how you want it to appear. But yeah I did not notice the default looks like WMP a lot._

 

Meh. I want something to be intuitive. I don't want to spend hours customizing it until it looks the way I want it to look.

 And now Media Monkey is starting to suffer from repeated buffer underruns, even though thread priority is real time....I'm thinking it doesn't like my DVD-ROM drive...evaluation still in progress...

 EDIT: I was right, it has problems with my Pioneer drive, not with the Plextor. Funny thing is, with foobar2000 it's the other way around.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also to note ASIO4All isn't true ASIO, its a wrapper. If you want true ASIO output, need to spend I think its up to 57 USD now for those drivers. Kinda messed up forcing people to pay for something that was free to the public to use. Hopefully someone can develop an open source version of those drivers someday._

 

Yeah, I know. And if you think getting ASIO4All to work is difficult, try installing that real ASIO driver. I think someone first should develop something that's worth paying 59 euros for.


----------



## haloxt

Drosera, if you like minimalist GUI, you will drool when you see what v0.8 of foobar2000 looks like. You have to use v0.8 to use otachan's ASIO due to (according to Otachan) difficulty in making drivers for v0.9. Let me know if you need any help setting up ASIO with v0.8, it's different from v0.9.

ASIO builds 2.0


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Drosera, if you like minimalist GUI, you will drool when you see what v0.8 of foobar2000 looks like. You have to use v0.8 to use otachan's ASIO due to (according to Otachan) difficulty in making drivers for v0.9. Let me know if you need any help setting up ASIO with v0.8, it's different from v0.9.

ASIO builds 2.0_

 

Nice, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I had read about this some time in the past, but had forgotten that it concerned that same otachan plugin.

 EDIT: Ok, managed to get it working. (32-bit does the trick) This now looks AND sounds better. Thanks again.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Drosera, if you like minimalist GUI, you will drool when you see what v0.8 of foobar2000 looks like. You have to use v0.8 to use otachan's ASIO due to (according to Otachan) difficulty in making drivers for v0.9. Let me know if you need any help setting up ASIO with v0.8, it's different from v0.9.

ASIO builds 2.0_

 

Will this matter for Vista users who are using WASAPI?


----------



## Sganzerla

* (Off Topic)*
 Is this the best combination sound wise? Foobar 0.83 + Otachan Asio?
 Comparing only MediaMonkey, Winamp and Foobar.
 These player discussions creeps me out.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_* (Off Topic)*
 Is this the best combination sound wise? Foobar 0.83 + Otachan Asio?
 Comparing only MediaMonkey, Winamp and Foobar.
 These player discussions creeps me out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Not completely off-topic. At least it shows that the USB input and DAC of the Compass are good enough to let you hear very clear differences between the different ASIO plugins.


----------



## rx7mark

Another noob here, waiting anxiously for all the reviews to come in, but I am pretty confident at this point that I will order a Compass before the promotion runs out. 

 I just recieved a set of Dennon D2000's and have started burning them in with my portable rig. This will be my first real Hi-fi headphone rig, but I need to pick a source to go with it. 

 I have a Dell laptop and 5.5G IPOD now, but thinking of picking up a used Mini MAC to use for a dedicated music source.

 Thanks for all the great work in helping to develop this prodcut!

 Mark


----------



## mbd2884

Why spend more money if you have a Dell Laptop? Just buy a giant hard drive for all your FLAC files...far cheaper.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rx7mark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a Dell laptop and 5.5G IPOD now, but thinking of picking up a used Mini MAC to use for a dedicated music source._

 

Sometimes its nice to have a dedicated music source. I would make sure that the mac mini is new enough to have the intel chip. I tried to use an old iMac as a music station, but found that there is a real lack of decent media players, especially if you're using FLAC and have a decent collection. The intel macs are able to run some newer players, like songbird, jajuk, and Amarok 2. I think. Anyway, I gave up on the Mac and went back to ubuntu. 

 Come to think of it, this is the perfect opportunity to try out linux, too. Instead of picking up a mini Mac, you could find a cheap 4-year old desktop PC (XP vintage) and install ubuntu or other distro on it. You'd have a plenty powerful computer, and you'd have lots of room to add internal hard drives as your collection grows. It wouldn't be hard to set up at all.


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why spend more money if you have a Dell Laptop? Just buy a giant hard drive for all your FLAC files...far cheaper._

 

The Dell laptop is our family machine, and I have to share it with my wife and one daughter. I just wont have access to listen to music, when I would like to, if the Dell is my music source. I already have a small external hard drive for this also.

 So I will be investing in something new to use as a source for the Compass. I am not set on a MAC mini, but thought it looked intriguing due to optical out, 24/192 output, and potential for using a IPOD touch to control it with the remote APP. It also appears that they can be had used for $300-400. 

 I would love other suggestion from those that have been down this road, but maybe I should start a new thread in the computer as source forum, rather than jack this thread any further.

 Mark

 Here is the new thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/ne...dation-408927/


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Guys....I've been plugging away at this monster now for over 5 hours straight today and still have loads of stuff to write.

 But I am making good headway. Just about finished the DAC round up but this is going slower than I would like it too. My problem is as I complete sections I load them into a preview window and then correct spelling, proof read and change fonts etc as I go, that way when it's done it's ready to post immediately. Another issue is having to write this on the fly from the rough notes and have it all be fluid and interesting at the same time. That's another big time consumer. A quick typist I am not.

 Listing all the parameters, gear etc...took me most of yesterday and part of today. Needless to say I'm taking a short break right now for some lunch (15 minutes or so).

 I know one thing...when I finish this thing I'm gonna have a beer and a nap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Aha, I see Mr. Franken green.. is it going to be now.. or is it going to take another night??..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, you beat me on this message..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It's a big review Sandchak. I'm going as fast as I can. What can I say except I'm trying my best to get it done.

 I think once you see the size and scope of this you'll quickly understand why it's taking as long as it is.

 In the meantime how about posting some thoughts of your own, you must have more hours on your Compass than I have besides it'll keep you busy while you wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

My impression of the Compass.

 There isn't enough time between sleeping (which is limited because listening to Compass), working and the g/f for me to enjoy the Compass. I need way more time please. I've already missed my normal train in the morning twice in the last two weeks because of listening to Compass...


----------



## inF

I'd like to hear impressions of HD 600 & Compass combo, if any


----------



## AudioPhewl

Compass doesn't need a big review. It really is a fantastic sounding piece of kit. It is instantly engaging and dynamic, but not in the slightest bit fatiguing after an extended 'session'. It is extremely detailed, but never "shrill" or "tinny", and the bass has "attack" and "slam", yet is never overbearing or artificial.

 It is beautifully crafted, the audio output sublime - I want to use the word perfect, but that wouldn't be right as I can't compare to everything else in the world. But it is a thoroughly superb machine in every aspect. Kingwa has an intense thumbs-up from me for his product 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 ~Phewl.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *inF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to hear impressions of HD 600 & Compass combo, if any 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Peete has Senns

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

My hard drive took a dump just as I was uploading the last set of pics to photobucket.

 The good news is all the pics are safe and all the text etc I have completed today saved to a USB keydrive.

 In the meantime I'm on the wife's laptop and may have to complete the review with it. No big deal but the desktop going for dump really ticks me off....this is a fresh OS install on a brand spankin new Seagate drive. I'm attempting to recover the MBR at the moment but I'm not sure if that will be successful.

 Anyway that puts an end to any more work on the review (gee thanks AP ya bum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) for today. At least for the time being while I attempt to recover my system intact.

 Either way I'll continue to write the review on whatever computer works.

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Review first, computer later!


----------



## WC Annihilus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My hard drive took a dump just as I was uploading the last set of pics to photobucket.

 The good news is all the pics are safe and all the text etc I have completed today saved to a USB keydrive.

 In the meantime I'm on the wife's laptop and may have to complete the review with it. No big deal but the desktop going for dump really ticks me off....this is a fresh OS install on a brand spankin new Seagate drive. I'm attempting to recover the MBR at the moment but I'm not sure if that will be successful.

 Anyway that puts an end to any more work on the review (gee thanks AP ya bum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) for today. At least for the time being while I attempt to recover my system intact.

 Either way I'll continue to write the review on whatever computer works.

 Peete._

 

Ugh, what an annoyance. Though with all the problems Seagate has been having lately, it's not terribly surprising... Good luck on recovering the machine and I eagerly await the review


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WC Annihilus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ugh, what an annoyance. Though with all the problems Seagate has been having lately, it's not terribly surprising... Good luck on recovering the machine and I eagerly await the review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wanted to build a NAS RAID with (8) 1.5TB Seagate drives and the failure rate was astronomical!! All thes companies go thru cycles, except maybe Hitachi which I don't remeber going thru one of these cycles but it could have happened when I wasn't using their drives.

 Tough break though, nobody likes this happening to them. 

 .


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(gee thanks AP ya bum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

Always happy to help! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Either way I'll continue to write the review on whatever computer works.

 Peete. 
 

Years back, I was asked to write an article on CPU overclocking for a fairly big UK magazine. I didn't really want to do it, but they contacted me about it, and offered me a decent wedge of cash. I tried several times to make a start, and couldn't get anything I was happy with. Then one day, it all started flowing just right... I got about 1/2 way through writing everything, rebooted the machine to wind the speed up for some benchmarks and screenshots.

 First batch went well, as did the second. But the third time round, I'd overclocked too far and taken the PCI bus way out of spec. I got some screenshots, then the machine hung. I rebooted, and it would no longer boot.

 Much of the hard drive was corrupt, and all my work was lost. I gave in, I reinstalled that evening, and emailed the magazine to tell them I couldn't complete it. They weren't happy... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds like you had a luckier escape than I 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## broodwich

Lot's of reported problems with the Seagate 7200.11 drives but I thought they had resolved the issues with a firmware update.


----------



## cyberidd

Its great of you to be doing such a thorough review for us, I have heard nothing but good things so far, but am definately looking forward to your review when it comes out. Thanks Peete!!!


----------



## hdlovar

Can't wait for v2 of this thing to come out... Need... Amp...


----------



## inF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Custom power cable*
 I'm hearing no difference to the sound, but I've not done a thorough test. I don't plan on doing so until the Compass has had many, many more hours of use to stabilise. At that point, I'll sit down and do a proper side-by-side.

 My compass has over 85 hours of constant playback so far.

 ~Phewl._

 

Hello Phewl,

 Did the custom power cable make a difference after two weeks?

 And


----------



## theBigD

I can't wait to read prickley petes review the anticipation is killing me! On a related note (my patience) DHL really sux. I ordered earth and moon last week and it was supposed to take 3 days to get here, they ended up in los angeles on monday and have been "in transit" for three days now, sure hope they get here tomarro.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *broodwich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lot's of reported problems with the Seagate 7200.11 drives but I thought they had resolved the issues with a firmware update._

 

Hi,
 I think the Firmware fixed the "pausing" "stalling" issues but it doesn't seemed to have stemmed the failures AFAIK.

 .


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah replaced the Drive on this few months ago, but opted to get a Hitachi over Seagate, although for years previously I used Seagate for portable


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hdlovar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't wait for v2 of this thing to come out... Need... Amp..._

 

If these were the test/promo models, wouldnt it technically be the official V1?

 Despite that, I can sympathies. Besides my mini3, my phones have been without anything but XFi for many months =X

 Now my big question is that I got an unexpectedly large sum of money for my recent bday. I have an additional budget of $200 (not the present amount), that I can throw at something. Im debating an amp so then Ill have the Compass DAC+amp config or the DAC and the separate amp. The problem is finding the combination that would work well. The Compass is looking to be very neutral so it will mostly come down the amp molding the sound to tailor the phones (DT770 250 and HD650). At this point Im thinking just the Compass, see how that fares on its own, then decide on whether or not to throw the bday money into a separate amp as well. Maybe just a cable change on the 650s would be enough to give the slightly more forward sound Im looking for.


----------



## idunno

I've become quite a fan of WD drives, following SPCR's favorable (but often model specific) ratings. Even before I discovered Head-Fi I was attempting to build a silent PC; now I have all the more reason to keep the ambient noise down


----------



## Sganzerla

I was going to post a reminder to PP yesteday saying he should backup things as he writes on his e-mail, in case of problem with his computer, but decided to not do this because I could be 'introducing' bad lucky.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a big review Sandchak. I'm going as fast as I can. What can I say except I'm trying my best to get it done.

 I think once you see the size and scope of this you'll quickly understand why it's taking as long as it is.

 In the meantime how about posting some thoughts of your own, you must have more hours on your Compass than I have besides it'll keep you busy while you wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

I can understand and appreciate very much the efforts you must have put into the review.

 I really wish I could share my personal experience with Compass more, but the problem like i said last week my HK amp blew up, and although I have the Swans MKII for my PC setup, I cleaned up the amp inside and was running through HK amp.. headphones, I am waiting for a fellow member's impression on the Sextettes with Compass before I go for one.. So basically I am left without any music apart from my I-pods and stock hps..in any case I'm keeping the compass running so that it keeps burning in till I get my stuffs.. I think I'll go crazy with happiness going back to Compass and my regular gear after the ipods and stock HP..

 Also I am getting an amp from Kingwa to replace my HK, but I am waiting for your review before I make the decsion to buy or not to buy a preamp along with it, as it would save me a lot on shipping getting it together, specially to this place where shipping costs is abnormal, but then it saves me more if I don't have to get the preamp..

 Anyway, I wish you luck with the comp problems and hopefully we will see the review soon..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Guys,

 Good news first. As mentioned earlier I had saved all my work to a USB key drive. It's ALL there. I lost nothing of the review as it now stands and had as a precaution from the last major failure (both times using Intel Matrix storage manager...ICH9R Raid) I had compartmentalized all the important data (games on a sep part,data on sep drives etc). 

 I still need to get Firefox and a few other things back, Kaspersky etc...but that will be a breeze and go quickly now. The Seagate drive that puked is working just fine now. Why it did what it did if the big mystery right now. I used to buy nothing but IBM deskstars and never had one die on me. Too bad they are no longer made. Great but expensive drives. I think the Hitachi's as you guys have mentioned are the closest types to the old Deskstars. 


 Bad news is I lost 6 hours that could have been spent working on the Compass Review. 


 One plus to this mishap it allowed me to really relax with the Compass for a while enjoying some casual listening meanwhile waiting for the SP's security updates and other MS garbage to download and install from the MS site. 

 It really is a terrific amp and dac.

 I would even say the best combo on the market bar none in the budget category (the standard to which the competitors will be measured against even if those combos cost 500US or more). You'll not be disappointed whatsoever with this units functionality,looks, and best of all, it's superior sound qualities (from the DAC and Amp).

 So even though my review is taking forever AudioPhewl is absolutely correct when he states you don't need a big review to decide on the Compass but I shall post that review regardless 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I will get back to work first thing Friday morning .....the only thing I can say is it'll be posted when it's done.

 I guess I should briefly describe what happened....I was impoting pics from the HDD to photobucket to use in the Compass review, everything was functioning as it should sometime during the upload the screen blanked out completely white and displayed in the upper left hand corner a flashing dos prompt about 2 inches down from the top left. Mouse and keyboard useless. Tried to bring up console task manager but the system was locked. No noise preceded the failure, no HDD thrashing nothing .....definitely a new one for over the years of various drives (from all makers) taking a dump all of a sudden.

 Anyone else had this failure scenario ? It's interesting to note that both of failures happened on the ICH9R Intel Matrix Storage Managers watch. The previous motherboard used a different RAID controller with the same drives I'm using now ( the 2 160 gig drives functioned perfectly for the life of that system which was 4 years ). It could be the Seagate drive and or the Matrix drivers. I'll have to do some digging to see what I can find out. Time to check for mobo BIOS updates and check Saegates site fro firmware revisons if any. I think this drive is 7200.12 with 32 meg cache. I could be wrong.

 Thanks for being an understanding bunch, your support and good wishes bouy my spirit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now my big question is that I got an unexpectedly large sum of money for my recent bday. I have an additional budget of $200 (not the present amount), that I can throw at something. Im debating an amp so then Ill have the Compass DAC+amp config or the DAC and the separate amp. The problem is finding the combination that would work well. The Compass is looking to be very neutral so it will mostly come down the amp molding the sound to tailor the phones (DT770 250 and HD650). At this point Im thinking just the Compass, see how that fares on its own, then decide on whether or not to throw the bday money into a separate amp as well. Maybe just a cable change on the 650s would be enough to give the slightly more forward sound Im looking for._

 

I wouldn't advise you anything else. The Compass is such a major upgrade in itself, that it's best to first get a really good impression of that wonderful piece of gear. Further decision can then depend on your preferences for getting either a better amp or a better DAC. Depending also on comparisons you might be able to do with other gear. It could just be that it's actually the amp of the Compass that scales well with an even better DAC. That's certainly what Kingwa implied in some comments and we might know more about that when Peete manages to complete his 24 volume work and Currawong is going to compare it a little more to some high-end DACs.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sandchak...sorry about the HK amp, I forgot you blew the sucker up.

 Here is what I would do, get the amp and try the Compass preout for a while. I found the preamp function during the review process the equal of the modified Adcom GFP-750. That surprised the hell out of me since I didn't exspect the Compass to compete with it let alone better it.

 Does this mean the Compass preamp function automatically equals or outdoes other 1.5KUS pre's ? No, but it does say quite a bit about the quality of the Compass preamp output.

 If your system is capable of showing the difference between the Compass and Kingwa's higher priced purpose built stand alones then I would say get the higher quality pre *and* amp combination.

 The better spot to sink your money into right now is the amp first,dac second and the preamp last. This is taking into account you've already bought top quality (for your budget) main speakers and headphones.

 I'm almost certain you will be mighty impressed with the Compass preamp function. If my MC-7R were to malfunction and need repair, it's replacement would be the Compass rather than the Adcom in the main rig. In fact as soon as the review is completed the Compass will become my full time DAC until the Reference 1 arrives sometime in March. The FrankenDAC will be kicked over to the head fi system.

 Of course if you plan on doing a main system overall upgrade the dedicated separates route is the only to fly IMHO.
 It depends on your plans and what you are willing to spend long term. You ceratinly can't go wrong with any of Kingwa's gear. 

 I hope that helps a little. 

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Thanks a zillion Peete,

 It doesn't help a little but a lot, with whatever you have said about the preamp section of Compass, I have decided to defer the preamp purchase and rather go the biamp way with 2 amps, and use Compass as a preamp for the time being, you are right about the rule about amp, then dac and finally preamp..

 Anyway, I wont take much space here with what I plan, maybe I could PM you after you are over with review of Compass and ask for your thoughts..

 Thanks again.

 PS, I just realized even though I have made my decision, I am even more looking forward for the Compass review, even though its true that AP's impression summing up Compass was perfect and couldn't be more closer to what I feel personally.. I guess through your review, I will know more about what the Compass is capable of, apart from what it already is..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I forgot to mention...Pacific Valve and Electric, a Chicago based online vendor of bang for buck audio gear, has begun to carry a limited inventory (in terms of models) of Audio-gd designs. 

 This is great news IMO. Hopefully they become the authorized service center for US/Canadian customers as well. That would a an awesome move for Audio-gd.


 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I forgot to mention...Pacific Valve and Electric, a Chicago based online vendor of bang for buck audio gear, has begun to carry a limited inventory (in terms of models) of Audio-gd designs. 

 This is great news IMO. Hopefully they become the authorized service center for US/Canadian customers as well. That would a an awesome move for Audio-gd.


 Peete._

 

That would be a big step for Audio-gd. Having an official "location" in NA would be a real plus for the comfort of unsure buyers.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That would be a big step for Audio-gd. Having an official "location" in NA would be a real plus for the comfort of unsure buyers._

 

Agreed cs !

 It's a very smart move both on Kingwa's and Vic's part.

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That would be a big step for Audio-gd. Having an official "location" in NA would be a real plus for the comfort of unsure buyers._

 

I agree too, this would be the best way to go International, and apart from the trust factor, Kingwa seems to think, that although he sells 90% of his stuffs in China/HK, they share a kind of teacher-student relationship (that because of the culture I assume), while he enjoys selling more to international customers as they give me more feedbacks, whether its negative or positive, in this way he seems to learn more, which he doesn't get get from local buyers because of the relationship I just spoke about.. so I guess its just not good for his business but good for him too..


----------



## cynan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I found the preamp function during the review process the equal of the modified Adcom GFP-750. That surprised the hell out of me since I didn't exspect the Compass to compete with it let alone better it._

 

Does this mean that the unit Peete is reviewing has the extra Preamp out (2 sets of RCA outputs in total)? I wonder if version 2 will have the preamp outputs as a standard feature...


----------



## sandchak

Yes, he has the one with preamp out and the upgraded version will come with it as default..

 Edit, it has one set of preamp (RCA) out and one DAC out (RCA) .. I hope I read you correctly..

 rear panel pic of the one Peete is using attached.


----------



## cynan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Edit, it has one set of preamp (RCA) out and one DAC out (RCA) .. I hope I read you correctly.._

 


 Yup. 1 RCA output for external preamp/integrated amp and 1 RCA output for power amp. Thanks for clarifying.

 I guess this means it's worth waiting for Version 2 (apparently the final version)

 when I emailed, Kingwa said it would be out around the end of February.

 I can't wait!


----------



## Chu

Man I hope they got good stock of v2 when it's out. Add me to the list of people counting the days!

 Anyone know if Pacific Valve and Electric is going to stock this? I'd rather buy it locally if I can, if only to try to help them stay afloat. This economy has been brutal on a lot of high-end retailers


----------



## dBs

Prickley, I just came across you mentioning in another thread that you have the MKIII. Thats the bday amp that Im debating on getting. Youll have the exact 3 components that I am debating jumping into Compass>MKIII>HD650. Your review is further anticipated =D


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man I hope they got good stock of v2 when it's out. Add me to the list of people counting the days!

 Anyone know if Pacific Valve and Electric is going to stock this? I'd rather buy it locally if I can, if only to try to help them stay afloat. This economy has been brutal on a lot of high-end retailers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Ok here is the story about Audio GD and Pacific Valves, Pacific valves had approached kingwa about their interest on Audio GD products and taking up the agency route all US customers through them, but kingwa unforunately could not locate their website and so he refused. Following which Pacific Valves picked up some stuffs from Audio GD - what you see on their website now. So there is actually no official tie up, although he is giving it a serious thought.
 About Compass, I appreciate the way you think, but I do not think that will happen, not untill they both come to some agreement (which I personally hope for) and surely not before the promotional period is over..

 Hope this helps.


----------



## Serpentd

Hey there all you current and future Compass owners. I have a question about the availability of the Compass that I'm a bit confused about. Sorry, I'm brand new to this hobby and to this wonderful site as well, so please forgive my confusion. 

 My question is, are we able to purchase the Compass as of now, or when the V2 is complete? I understand that there is the temporary introductory price, but not sure what this applies to exactly. Does this mean that when the V2 is done and in production and available to the public it will have this introductory price? Or is the Compass available now for purchase with the introductory price, although being V1 since V2 isn't done yet? I want to order one, but the website was sort of difficult to understand somewhat on ordering and what not. Not to mention it seems people currently have the Compass, but not sure if this was the "Testers" only.

 I'm sure I'm reading too much into this, but if someone could please help clear up when or if the Compass is available for purchase with the temporary introductory price (estimate time frame anyway). Sorry if this is a "DUH" question. I think I've just read too much too fast about the Compass and all the other info on this site that my brain is on temporary overload. This hobby can be very overwhelming for the nOOb as myself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank you, I appreciate anybody's help on clearing this up for me.


----------



## sandchak

Ok SerpentD, 

 1) Even if you order today, you get the Version 2 of the Compass, which will be available from the end of Feb, catch 7-10days more because only after all feedbacks from the current users are received, Kingwa will make the necessary changes, which will be basically the Version2 or the final version.

 2) Prices will remain same when you buy the version 2, which is USD258 + shipping, this promotional price will remain effective till April at least as far as my knowledge goes.

 Hope this helps


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *inF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to hear impressions of HD 600 & Compass combo, if any 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I posted a quick summary earlier: It's quite good with the HD-600, but the soundstage on some music is a little bit closed. On a live performance by Jeff Buckley, it sounded as if I was standing behind the audience, whereas with my C2C it's as if I'm standing in the midst of them. Remember though that HD-600s (and 650s) are cans that people pair with cables that cost more than the headphones themselves, and amps that cost thousands of dollars, because they scale that well.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey there all you current and future Compass owners. I have a question about the availability of the Compass that I'm a bit confused about. Sorry, I'm brand new to this hobby and to this wonderful site as well, so please forgive my confusion. 

 My question is, are we able to purchase the Compass as of now, or when the V2 is complete? I understand that there is the temporary introductory price, but not sure what this applies to exactly. Does this mean that when the V2 is done and in production and available to the public it will have this introductory price? Or is the Compass available now for purchase with the introductory price, although being V1 since V2 isn't done yet? I want to order one, but the website was sort of difficult to understand somewhat on ordering and what not. Not to mention it seems people currently have the Compass, but not sure if this was the "Testers" only._

 

You can only purchase version 2, at the promotional price. It will be ready at the end of Feb. Version 1 only went to the testers.


----------



## insyte

Im anxious for the review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and the compass


----------



## sandchak

Hi Curra,

 Hope the DAC1 listening is on track for Sunday.. cant wait for your review..


----------



## shampoosuicide

Good folks of the Compass thread,

 I have a Zero w/ HDAM. I only use the DAC section, I have a DV332 for an amp.

 I'm looking to upgrade my Zero. I don't want a small, incremental upgrade, I want a big step up.

 I have no DIY skills, hence can't perform the Franken-mod.

 Is the Compass what I'm looking for?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good folks of the Compass thread,

 I have a Zero w/ HDAM. I only use the DAC section, I have a DV332 for an amp.

 I'm looking to upgrade my Zero. I don't want a small, incremental upgrade, I want a big step up.

 I have no DIY skills, hence can't perform the Franken-mod.

 Is the Compass what I'm looking for?_

 

Compass as a package is a big jump from ZERO as a whole, I am saying this because the HP section of Compass is far better than ZERO.. You will lose out on the goodness of Compass if you want to only use it as a DAC, DAC100 comes to my mind but Compass DAC section is as good as DAC100..

 Actually it depends how much incremental means for you, yes, compass as a whole is an upgrade from Stock Zero with HDAMS or for that matter even Franken Zero (surely Peete would address that better in his review), but if I read his lines well, he says Compass goes into the main rig as DAC till reference one comes, so it says a lot about Compass's ability as a DAC and significant jump from Franken Zero, if that latter is being kicked over to the head fi rig !!..

 I know I haven't answered your question, so to put it shortly, Is Compass an upgrade to ZERO - the answer is certainly YES, but how much is that incremental jump is something you have to judge..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Is Compass an upgrade to ZERO - the answer is certainly YES, but how much is that incremental jump is something you have to judge.._

 

The main problem here is, it's very hard to think of another DAC that would give you the same performance as the Compass DAC for just 258 USD.

 For a truly huge upgrade though, you might want to wait and save a little and buy the upcoming Reference Three DAC. (Am I an Audio-gd groupie now? You betcha. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The main problem here is, it's very hard to think of another DAC that would give you the same performance as the Compass DAC for just 258 USD.

 For a truly huge upgrade though, you might want to wait and save a little and buy the upcoming Reference Three DAC. (Am I an Audio-gd groupie now? You betcha. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )_

 

Exactly Drosera - I guess that should be the correct answer.. thanks


----------



## cynan

I was planning on ordering the Sun and Earth OP Amps (Compass comes with Moon OP A, correct?) just so I would have a little more tweakability.

 Any other thoughts on which accessories to get? I think the Audio-dg power cable looks pretty good for $60. Is there anything better in this price range? (I guess I will have to wait for a review). Any other accessories worth considering?


----------



## mbd2884

If you are willing to spend the 60 dollars for the power cable, its worth the upgrade. Whatever reason, even after reading several papers about jitter and EMF, its still bizarre how it makes a difference audibly.

 As for Compass vs Zero. Here it is. The difference is big enough, that to have a significant upgrade over the Compass you will probably be spending around 700 that will be using dual DACs, arguable one of the best in the industry, PCM7204, bleh, I have no idea if that's the right number, but those who know, know what I'm referring to.

 So if you don't want to spend 500 or more just for the DAC, the Compass will fit your bill, be about that good until then. The only DAC that uses dual D/A I can think of is the DacMagic, only other DAC I would recommend right now over the Compass. And even then, its subjective as its simply a different design offering balanced output and using Wolfson D/As. Getting a KECES or Beresford or any other DAC between 200-500 USD wouldn't make sense to use as upgrades, the difference be too minimal/minor, not worth it. You would have to jump to the DACMagic, new reference series or any other DAC with significant differences.

 So either get Compass as full package, or get yourself a DACMAgic just for the DAC.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good folks of the Compass thread,

 I have a Zero w/ HDAM. I only use the DAC section, I have a DV332 for an amp.

 I'm looking to upgrade my Zero. I don't want a small, incremental upgrade, I want a big step up.

 I have no DIY skills, hence can't perform the Franken-mod.

 Is the Compass what I'm looking for?_

 

I think going straight to the Reference 3 will do you more good in the long run.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Thanks for the responses so far guys.

 To clarify, I'm only interested in the DAC section.

 I'm not so much concerned about value, just whether or not the Compass' DAC section represents a big upgrade from the Zero w/ HDAM, or an appreciable upgrade from the Franken Zero.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey there all you current and future Compass owners. I have a question about the availability of the Compass that I'm a bit confused about. Sorry, I'm brand new to this hobby and to this wonderful site as well, so please forgive my confusion. 

 My question is, are we able to purchase the Compass as of now, or when the V2 is complete? I understand that there is the temporary introductory price, but not sure what this applies to exactly. Does this mean that when the V2 is done and in production and available to the public it will have this introductory price? Or is the Compass available now for purchase with the introductory price, although being V1 since V2 isn't done yet? I want to order one, but the website was sort of difficult to understand somewhat on ordering and what not. Not to mention it seems people currently have the Compass, but not sure if this was the "Testers" only.

 I'm sure I'm reading too much into this, but if someone could please help clear up when or if the Compass is available for purchase with the temporary introductory price (estimate time frame anyway). Sorry if this is a "DUH" question. I think I've just read too much too fast about the Compass and all the other info on this site that my brain is on temporary overload. This hobby can be very overwhelming for the nOOb as myself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank you, I appreciate anybody's help on clearing this up for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Just to clear this up. There is no V1 or V2. There is a Prototype/Beta tester unit in a run of 20 or so, and there is the Compass that will be released Late February.

 The Compass will be available at a Promo price for a few months starting in Late February. It can be pre-ordered now.


 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the responses so far guys.

 To clarify, I'm only interested in the DAC section.

 I'm not so much concerned about value, just whether or not the Compass' DAC section represents a big upgrade from the Zero w/ HDAM, or an appreciable upgrade from the Franken Zero._

 

Or you could get in on the REF 1 when it comes out in March


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to clear this up. There is no V1 or V2. There is a Prototype/Beta tester unit in a run of 20 or so, and there is the Compass that will be released Late February.

 The Compass will be available at a Promo price for a few months starting in Late February. It can be pre-ordered now.


 ._

 

To be more precise what we have now is a "test version" Compass and what will be available from feb end would be "upgraded version" Compass.. as per Audio GD website.. and I think now the promotional price will stay the same till the end of May at least, and not April like I had previously thought..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not so much concerned about value, just whether or not the Compass' DAC section represents a big upgrade from the Zero w/ HDAM, or an appreciable upgrade from the Franken Zero._

 

The imminent review of the Compass by Pricklely Peete should at least give you a good impression of the differences in quality between the Compass and the Frankenzero. It will be posted soon (at least, that's what we're all hoping).


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good folks of the Compass thread,

 I have a Zero w/ HDAM. I only use the DAC section, I have a DV332 for an amp.

 I'm looking to upgrade my Zero. I don't want a small, incremental upgrade, I want a big step up.

 I have no DIY skills, hence can't perform the Franken-mod.

 Is the Compass what I'm looking for?_

 

The real question what are you looking to spend for a DAC. For your DV332, the Compass DAC will more than suffice. Getting a DacMagic for example may not be worth it, as you are paying extra for the balanced output, hence the dual Wolfson D/A setup. 

 The Compass DAC is good enough where getting a dedicated 250 USD 151 DAC or Beresford won't be an upgrade, but rather side upgrades. The benefit of the Compass is that, yes, the DAC is better than the Zeros, the workmanship is also better, and has a better power source. Improved power source makes more difference than you would think. It comes with a fully discrete amp, that the Zero is not. So getting Compass will also give a nice solid state amp alternative to your DV332.

 But if you are looking to spend more than 500 USD on just the DAC, then I would skip the Compass and keep looking at the DacMagic, Reference series and others. If its under 500, then Compass should be a consideration, while the promotional price lasts.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Ah, my budget is less than 400 USD.

 There are other DACs that I am looking at, but seeing as this is the Compass thread, I'll limit my discussion to that.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, my budget is less than 400 USD.

 There are other DACs that I am looking at, but seeing as this is the Compass thread, I'll limit my discussion to that._

 

Personally from the research I've done on DACs, I don't believe a 400 dollar DAC will be a significant upgrade over the Compass, which has a 250+ DAC, and that's probably in line with Kingwa's generous pricing, unless you plan on buying a balanced amp soon.


----------



## ScottieB

Peete, if I read that right, you already had these drives running for 4 years? I think it's just a straight up failure, man... I've had drives go on me much much faster than that. HDs are temporary storage - not a question of IF they will fail, but WHEN... I learned this the hard way (a few times). In recent years they have gotten much more reliable, but fact is they're mechanical, so they fail eventually. 4 years+ is quite a good run, frankly. 

 Sorry to jump (more or less) off topic. 

 Compass really sounds awesome. As a Zero owner looking to do some fun DIY I don't think it's for me right now (unless I brick my Zero in the process... heh) but still sounds awesome. I'm a big fan of audio-gd. I was one of the guys who had a problem with the soldering on the HDAM leads back in the early days (the original 2-for deal with the Earth and Sun V1) and Kingwa's support was awesome. He gave me some tips on how to fix it myself (I'd never soldered before) and then, months later when the Moon came out, he gave me 50% off. Of course my sun unit is acting up again... time to break out the solder.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


 Anyone else had this failure scenario ? It's interesting to note that both of failures happened on the ICH9R Intel Matrix Storage Managers watch. The previous motherboard used a different RAID controller with the same drives I'm using now ( the 2 160 gig drives functioned perfectly for the life of that system which was 4 years ). It could be the Seagate drive and or the Matrix drivers. I'll have to do some digging to see what I can find out. Time to check for mobo BIOS updates and check Saegates site fro firmware revisons if any. I think this drive is 7200.12 with 32 meg cache. I could be wrong.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Compass will be available at a Promo price for a few months starting in Late February._

 

So just to make perfectly clear, there is no rush to buy it immediately since we have a few months starting at the end of February, right? I just want to make completely sure since I'll be away for a little while and don;t want to miss my chances at this sweet deal!!


----------



## godluvsxs

For those who are looking for pure DAC, try to avoid DacMagic by Cambridge Audio, reason? Take a look at this

  Quote:


 Hmm, i'm not so good at describing sound but i'll try.

 I switched from my Zero DAC to the DacMagic and when paired with my Novo and K701, i immediately heard the difference. With the Zero, i found the music to be less cold, detailed and analytical as with the Dacmagic on the Linear phase setting. I honestly couldn't stand my music this way. I found my music had no life. I switched between the 3 phase settings, namely, linear, minimum and steep. I found steep to be more suitable for me where the music became a little warmer and had more body.

 The ZeroDAC is really worth it though, it provided me months of audio pleasure and am still using it for my PS3 and desktop computer. The main reason i bought the DacMagic were because of the balanced outputs to connect them to my subwoofer and the other RCA output for my headamp.

 Hope this helps 
 

 source: Jaben Community > Headphones, IEMs', Amps, Speakers & Music Source > DAC's... > Best Neutral, Detailed DAC for <$700 thread

 Emmm ... This is really promising, I dont know what's the guy's ZERO dac version: stock, OPA627 inside (Jaben guys called it as ZERO+) or audio-gd's discrete opamps. I can assure you guys, so does some COMPASS's first batch taker could confirm that COMPASS's DAC section surely beats ZERO's dac section (equipped with discrete opamp) ... This makes me feel that the COMPASS's dac section might rivaling the Benchmark DAC-1's, no joking ... this might be true ... Logically speaking, DacMagic < ZERO dac < COMPASS = DAC1, this might be very true 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got the feeling Reference 3 might be entrance to HI-END


----------



## mbd2884

I don't get it, it DacMagic seems to be a pure DAC to me...Its the Zero that would seem to be less than pure DAC if its coloring the music to be more musical...by that description.


----------



## godluvsxs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't get it, it DacMagic seems to be a pure DAC to me...Its the Zero that would seem to be less than pure DAC if its coloring the music to be more musical...by that description._

 

IMHO DAC doesnt mean to be analytical and accurate, even Kingwa does produces three kind of sound signature between his products, the typical accurate type, DAC3SE tube like type and lastly in between DAC7 type. It hugely depends on your favor and your system synergy.

 My last post just to expose the forummer's comments that ZERO dac's capability does surpass DacMagic with same amount of music details yet more easy listening to. This bold statement certainly makes Audio-GD's COMPASS more attractive since it's DAC capability > ZERO dac > DacMagic.


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah that thread you posted there seems a bit meh to me. That and I think Cambridge Audio would be very surprised the Zero to be better than theirs, I'd be surprised if Compass DAC was better than the DacMagic.

 The only good thing I got out of that thread is the mentioning of the DAC7010. That looks interesting.
http://alvin1118.blogspot.com/2008/0...d-dac7010.html

 Looks very cool with matching pre-amp. DAC is on top.


----------



## moodyrn

I've read several reports of the dac magic not being that good. From everything I read, more money was put into it having alot of bells and whistles. I've never heard it, so I don't know. Just going on everything I've read.


----------



## godluvsxs

mbd2884;5417928 said:
			
		

> Yeah that thread you posted there seems a bit meh to me. That and I think Cambridge Audio would be very surprised the Zero to be better than theirs, I'd be surprised if Compass DAC was better than the DacMagic.
> 
> The only good thing I got out of that thread is the mentioning of the DAC7010. That looks interesting.
> Alvin's Blog: HI-End DAC7010 <Digital Coaxial, Optical, USB Interface>
> ...


----------



## godluvsxs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah that thread you posted there seems a bit meh to me. That and I think Cambridge Audio would be very surprised the Zero to be better than theirs, I'd be surprised if Compass DAC was better than the DacMagic.

 The only good thing I got out of that thread is the mentioning of the DAC7010. That looks interesting.
Alvin's Blog: HI-End DAC7010 <Digital Coaxial, Optical, USB Interface>

 Looks very cool with matching pre-amp. DAC is on top._

 

The DAC7010 is built by Taiwanese if I'm not wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh ya, I just check out from the thread, the reviewer's ZERO dac was in STOCK form during the comparison


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, my budget is less than 400 USD.

 There are other DACs that I am looking at, but seeing as this is the Compass thread, I'll limit my discussion to that._

 

Hi,
 I got a deal for you. How about a Free trial of the Compass? You buy the Compass at the ridiculously low price now. Use if for 90 days non-stop. Take it to meets, compare to other DACs in your area. Then when the price adjusts and people are saying, man I wish I had bought one for that price, you jump up and say SOLD!!

 In other words, there is no way to lose here.

 .


----------



## theBigD

I am still waiting for earth, and moon. I had a "chat" with DHL and found out when pkg gets to usa, they transfer to usps. so pkg arrived in LA on monday. I live in oregon. I tracked usps number and pkg went to New Jersey! now it is being shipped from NJ to Oregon and I should get by Sat night. Just a little info about DHL, hope they get they're act together.


----------



## WC Annihilus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So just to make perfectly clear, there is no rush to buy it immediately since we have a few months starting at the end of February, right? I just want to make completely sure since I'll be away for a little while and don;t want to miss my chances at this sweet deal!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Looks like Kingwa recently updated the Compass page saying the promotional price will at least last until the end of May


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am still waiting for earth, and moon. I had a "chat" with DHL and found out when pkg gets to usa, they transfer to usps. so pkg arrived in LA on monday. I live in oregon. I tracked usps number and pkg went to New Jersey! now it is being shipped from NJ to Oregon and I should get by Sat night. Just a little info about DHL, hope they get they're act together._

 

So far I received a power cord and the Compass from Audio-gd at two different times, both arrived 3 business days after receiving email they were shipped.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


 Originally Posted by theBigD View Post

 I am still waiting for earth, and moon. I had a "chat" with DHL and found out when pkg gets to usa, they transfer to usps. so pkg arrived in LA on monday. I live in oregon. I tracked usps number and pkg went to New Jersey! now it is being shipped from NJ to Oregon and I should get by Sat night. Just a little info about DHL, hope they get they're act together. 
 



 USPS = They are the problem in that equation. LOL Big D I don't feel so bad now, I have been waiting since Feb 3 for some software that shipped from nevada to Richmond, CA, to Kansas and now tracking says its in Seattle. I'm in Oregon, What?


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok SerpentD, 

 1) Even if you order today, you get the Version 2 of the Compass, which will be available from the end of Feb, catch 7-10days more because only after all feedbacks from the current users are received, Kingwa will make the necessary changes, which will be basically the Version2 or the final version.

 2) Prices will remain same when you buy the version 2, which is USD258 + shipping, this promotional price will remain effective till April at least as far as my knowledge goes.

 Hope this helps_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can only purchase version 2, at the promotional price. It will be ready at the end of Feb. Version 1 only went to the testers._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to clear this up. There is no V1 or V2. There is a Prototype/Beta tester unit in a run of 20 or so, and there is the Compass that will be released Late February.

 The Compass will be available at a Promo price for a few months starting in Late February. It can be pre-ordered now._

 

Thank you very much everyone for clearing that up for me. It all makes sense now. As far as pre-ordering goes on the Audio-Gd web site, do we just email him and kind of go from there? The site is just a little confusing to me. But then again, a lot of this stuff has been. Quite the learning curve going into this hobby to say the least. Thank goodness for you "Vets" out there.

 Also, when ordering, it appears that we can also order the different OPA things? Like the Earth, Moon...(I hope I'm using the proper terminology here, I don't even know what OPA stands for). Anyway, are the different OPA's easily interchangeable or not really? I have years of soldering skills if this is all that is needed. I just figured I would order all the accessories right off the bat is why I ask to cut down on future shipping.

 Now my final rookie question, can I also hook up an amp to this thing? Something like the MK III or similar, or no need to really? Sorry again for these simple questions, but like I mentioned earlier, I am literally just starting out and have no one else to turn to for advice. I should get my first set of 'real' headphones today actually, this is how new I am to the hobby. But you need to start somewhere, right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank you again everyone for your help here. I hope these questions are in line with this thread. I don't want to be an ass and hijack anything.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you very much everyone for clearing that up for me. It all makes sense now. As far as pre-ordering goes on the Audio-Gd web site, do we just email him and kind of go from there? The site is just a little confusing to me. But then again, a lot of this stuff has been. Quite the learning curve going into this hobby to say the least. Thank goodness for you "Vets" out there.

  Quote:


 Just send an email to the Email address on the site and tell him your address and what you want, and he'll give you an amount to Paypal to that Email address. He is a pleasure to deal with. 
 

Also, when ordering, it appears that we can also order the different OPA things? Like the Earth, Moon...(I hope I'm using the proper terminology here, I don't even know what OPA stands for). Anyway, are the different OPA's easily interchangeable or not really? I have years of soldering skills if this is all that is needed. I just figured I would order all the accessories right off the bat is why I ask to cut down on future shipping.

  Quote:


 They snap in and out in seconds, lust remember how the notch is oriented. Turn power off between switches 
 

Now my final rookie question, can I also hook up an amp to this thing? Something like the MK III or similar, or no need to really? Sorry again for these simple questions, but like I mentioned earlier, I am literally just starting out and have no one else to turn to for advice. I should get my first set of 'real' headphones today actually, this is how new I am to the hobby. But you need to start somewhere, right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 You can hook up another headphone amp to the DAC outs, or go to amplified speakers with the Preamp outs using the Compass volume control. It does everything you can think of believe me. 
 

Thank you again everyone for your help here. I hope these questions are in line with this thread. I don't want to be an ass and hijack anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

.


----------



## mbd2884

He also accepts Western Union, which I used, worked out fine, he got my payment within hours and verified. Very easy.


----------



## Drosera

Yay, Peete's gone green. I look forward to reading it at breakfast tomorrow! (See, no pressure..., no pressure at all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## inF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I posted a quick summary earlier: It's quite good with the HD-600, but the soundstage on some music is a little bit closed. On a live performance by Jeff Buckley, it sounded as if I was standing behind the audience, whereas with my C2C it's as if I'm standing in the midst of them. Remember though that HD-600s (and 650s) are cans that people pair with cables that cost more than the headphones themselves, and amps that cost thousands of dollars, because they scale that well._

 

My main concern is this: 

 Right now I have HD 25-1 (w/ OFC cable) and HD 600 > Corda 2Move > Audigy 2 ZS, with mp3's varying between 192 and 320 kbps.

 The thing is, when I bought last week HD 600, I was sure that it wouldn't perform much better than my HD 25-1's in these conditions, mentioned above. Indeed they didn't, while in some respects I liked them very much (airiness, bass impact), the overall sound signature, detail and most importantly satisfaction factor to my ears are almost same with HD 25-1's (though my mom liked them very much over HD 25-1's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).

 Now, my only wish is to get something, not exceeding 300-400$ too much, which will make a *significant *difference between them and make me eventually say "oh, now I'm getting a sight of one of the world's best headphones" for HD 600's. 

 If that can't/won't happen, than I really wouldn't want to spend that much on a new toy and rather sell HD 600's, as I am actually very happy with my HD 25-1 & 2Move.

 Your suggestions and feedback are welcomed and greatly appreciated, as always.


 P.S.: By the way, Compass is also available in 220V, right?


----------



## csroc

Well I love my HD650s with the Compass, but I really don't know how that translates to the HD600 experience.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *inF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My main concern is this: 

 Right now I have HD 25-1 (w/ OFC cable) and HD 600 > Corda 2Move > Audigy 2 ZS, with mp3's varying between 192 and 320 kbps.

 The thing is, when I bought last week HD 600, I was sure that it wouldn't perform much better than my HD 25-1's in these conditions, mentioned above. Indeed they didn't, while in some respects I liked them very much (airiness, bass impact), the overall sound signature, detail and most importantly satisfaction factor to my ears are almost same with HD 25-1's (though my mom liked them very much over HD 25-1's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 Now, my only wish is to get something, not exceeding 300-400$ too much, which will make a *significant *difference between them and make me eventually say "oh, now I'm getting a sight of one of the world's best headphones" for HD 600's. 

 If that can't/won't happen, than I really wouldn't want to spend that much on a new toy and rather sell HD 600's, as I am actually very happy with my HD 25-1 & 2Move.

 Your suggestions and feedback are welcomed and greatly appreciated, as always.


 P.S.: By the way, Compass is also available in 220V, right?_

 

I can only give you feedback in Generalities here, since I don't have a ompass as of yet. But those phones respond well to good Amps. From what you are saying here, I would look into getting a "Serious" amp for them. They really like the DV 337 as well as some of the other DV's.

 I'm not sure the Compass will be enough of a revelation for you, and certainly the DAC may be only a subtle change.


 .


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can only give you feedback in Generalities here, since I don't have a ompass as of yet. But those phones respond well to good Amps. From what you are saying here, I would look into getting a "Serious" amp for them. They really like the DV 337 as well as some of the other DV's.

 I'm not sure the Compass will be enough of a revelation for you, and certainly the DAC may be only a subtle change.


 ._

 

Yea, the same situation that I was describing that I was in as well (only with HD650). Both the 600s and 650s improve equally well (though with different sound signatures) with nice dedicated amps. Thats why Im looking especially forward to Prickley Petes review since he has the HD650, and the specific amp that Im considering; LD MKIII. With how thorough his review is looking to be, I suspect he will compare the Compass to the MKIII as individual entities and maybe even Compass DAC+MKIII AMP in tandem.

 I dont know if the amps good for 650 are also good for 600, but they have similar specifications (in regards to their electronic natures), that they both improve in the fashion that he and I described with proper amplification. Which is where our curiosities originate from.

 I plan on the Compass regardless, but is the MKIII a worthy addition as well or would the Compass alone make the sort of change that we are both looking for, dunno. At this point, Im going to get the Compass in its next batch, gauge my satisfaction, then decide upon the MKIII addition.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea, the same situation that I was describing that I was in as well (only with HD650). Both the 600s and 650s improve equally well (though with different sound signatures) with nice dedicated amps. Thats why Im looking especially forward to Prickley Petes review since he has the HD650, and the specific amp that Im considering; LD MKIII. With how thorough his review is looking to be, I suspect he will compare the Compass to the MKIII as individual entities and maybe even Compass DAC+MKIII AMP in tandem.

 I dont know if the amps good for 650 are also good for 600, but they have similar specifications (in regards to their electronic natures), that they both improve in the fashion that he and I described with proper amplification. Which is where our curiosities originate from.

 I plan on the Compass regardless, but is the MKIII a worthy addition as well or would the Compass alone make the sort of change that we are both looking for, dunno. At this point, Im going to get the Compass in its next batch, gauge my satisfaction, then decide upon the MKIII addition._

 

Sounds like a good plan. You can piggyback another amp in when you want to.


 .


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like a good plan. You can piggyback another amp in when you want to.


 ._

 

Yea, I had an idea about that that would be funny actually. Take the Compass DAC, put it into "super" mode to split the amp from the dac. Connect the source to the dac portion, connect the output of the dac to some different preamp unit, then connect the output of the preamp unit to the input of the amp portion of the Compass amp and listen from there. It would be like cutting the Compass into two pieces and stuffing an entirely separate unit in between, lol. I dont know if a person would ever want to do this or if there would be any advantage...but it could be done!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea, I had an idea about that that would be funny actually. Take the Compass DAC, put it into "super" mode to split the amp from the dac. Connect the source to the dac portion, connect the output of the dac to some different preamp unit, then connect the output of the preamp unit to the input of the amp portion of the Compass amp and listen from there. It would be like cutting the Compass into two pieces and stuffing an entirely separate unit in between, lol. I dont know if a person would ever want to do this or if there would be any advantage...but it could be done!_

 

Well, for starters, the MKIII is a tube amp, the Compass Solid State, so while one may or not be any "better" they will certainly be different. I LOVE my MKIII with my HD600s, but I have no doubt they can sound even better. From what I hear, the HD600s AND 650s (they are very similar in a lot of ways) scale better than just about any other headphone out there - and certainly better than any tht cost the same. I;ve heard people say when they upgraded to $1000+ amps that they thought they'd put the wrong headphones on!


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 20, 2018)

is that still work in progress?


----------



## Chu

I know it's sort of silly to get worked up about, but is the "super" button still labled as such? I noticed in some of the review threads that people suggested changing the name to something more, well, accurate.


 For some reason this little detail bugs me.


----------



## Dankerz

The model for sale is indeed the upgraded version.

 They have changed the "super" button to "bypass" instead.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I went to visit the audio-gd compass page, but I'm confused... the current model that they are selling now: is it the 'upgraded' one? or is that still work in progress?_

 

It's constantly evolving. It's alive... aliiiivee!!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read several reports of the dac magic not being that good. From everything I read, more money was put into it having alot of bells and whistles. I've never heard it, so I don't know. Just going on everything I've read._

 

It's sadly typical of today's mass produced brand name gear....all flash/hype and zero appeal where it counts (under the lid = sound quality). I'd avoid Cambridge Audio like any other mass production budget components from so called High End designers.

 The Musical Fidelity V-DAC is another variant but worlds better SQ wise from the end users reports to date but I feel your still not getting the same value under the hood as you do with Kingwa's gear nor the SQ of his gear. That's my opinion at least.

 DIY DACs/kits are the best bang for buck option for those with little to spend and a willingness to learn how to assemble such things. The Pear Audio stuff, some DIYHIFI kits, other DIY Dacs from the east they all blow away the C Audio or MF V-DAC for less money on average. The Audio-gd stuff speaks for itself. My DIY dac project cost me about 245US overall but I'd say it easily competes with anything 1K and under SQ wise.


*ScottieB :* None of my current drives are over a year old with the latest one only about 1.5 months old. The IBM desk stars went for 4 years straight and are still going. They cost me 800US for the pair way back in 1999. They were enterprise/server rated. I should have explained that a little better. Sorry about that.


*Compass vs MK III and Jaycar DIY kit amp*

 For those that are interested in how the MK III stacks up against the Compass, that will be in the forthcoming review (of which I'm still hammering away on...yikes it's big). The other amp being compared is the Jaycar DIY kit (KHA II Rev D as S-Man and I like to call it). The Jaycar is an amazing little amp with big big sound.

 My system is 90% back but it took me until 4:30 am to finish it up enough to make it secure for today's marathon writing session (ongoing). Needless to say I had 2 hours of sleep today and 5 hours in the last 3 days.

 The one thing I'm going to do as soon as I post this darn thing is go to bed and get some sleep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not experiencing the compressed SS Currawong mentioned. Odd. If anything the SS with the 650's being fed by the Vanguard CDM12 Pro Transport is huge with seemingly no boundaries to it. 

 Well back to the grindstone for me.

 I'm sorry this review is taking so long guys, I'm working like a dog to get it done.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea, I had an idea about that that would be funny actually. Take the Compass DAC, put it into "super" mode to split the amp from the dac. Connect the source to the dac portion, connect the output of the dac to some different preamp unit, then connect the output of the preamp unit to the input of the amp portion of the Compass amp and listen from there. It would be like cutting the Compass into two pieces and stuffing an entirely separate unit in between, lol. I dont know if a person would ever want to do this or if there would be any advantage...but it could be done!_

 

This would be novel but pointless. I thought about slipping the MF X-10V3 tube buffer in this way but I didn't want to mess with the signal coming from the DAC into the amp stage (all the added connections,possible impedance issues, additional noise....) seems like a lot of work for basically Zero gain.

 On the other hand the preamp out function to pure amp like the Jaycar is a really cool hybrid option. One I need to explore as an addition to the current review being written. Of course this configuration is pretty rare among end users but I will do a little blurb on it along with the other additions (Audio-gd mains cable, COAX cable etc) sometime during the next week or so.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok here is the story about Audio GD and Pacific Valves, Pacific valves had approached kingwa about their interest on Audio GD products and taking up the agency route all US customers through them, but kingwa unforunately could not locate their website and so he refused. Following which Pacific Valves picked up some stuffs from Audio GD - what you see on their website now. So there is actually no official tie up, although he is giving it a serious thought.
 About Compass, I appreciate the way you think, but I do not think that will happen, not untill they both come to some agreement (which I personally hope for) and surely not before the promotional period is over..

 Hope this helps._

 

I wasn't aware of this. That's too bad. Hopefully this relationship works out for the benefit of both parties. 

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's sadly typical of today's mass produced brand name gear....all flash/hype and zero appeal where it counts (under the lid = sound quality). I'd avoid Cambridge Audio like any other mass production budget components from so called High End designers.

 The Musical Fidelity V-DAC is another variant but worlds better SQ wise from the end users reports to date but I feel your still not getting the same value under the hood as you do with Kingwa's gear nor the SQ of his gear. That's my opinion at least._

 

When my Zero passed away suddenly, I immediately thought that I'll get a DACMagic. CA have made some lovely stuff over the years, the new DACMagic had a host of input and output features(XLR is a big appeal to me, as my Stax has balanced inputs), and was being touted as the DAC from the 940. Then I got wind of the new offering from Kingwa, and - reluctantly - decided to sit on the fence.

 I have to say, I'm glad I did. Many people have been less than inspired with the sound quality of the DACMagic - I don't think anyone has ever said it's a poor performer, but I get the distinct impression that there isn't the immediate love for the acoustic qualities that we've all experienced with the Compass.

 I also considered the V-Dac, which - from what I've read - is generally considered to be a better performer than the CA offering. I don't really care for looks, but geez... it looks like some kind of mutant interbreeding between those $15 chinese USB audio boxes on eBay, and a car audio amplifier. The inputs and outputs were on different sides of the casing... not the easiest of items to tuck away somewhere.

 V-Dac - £160 shipped
 CA DACMagic - £200 shipped
 Compass - £220 delivered, exc. customs nonsense

 I've not heard the other two offerings, so can't really pass comment. But I'm exceedingly happy with the performance of the Compass in every single area, and don't have a shred of disappointment with the product - I've not thought for a single second that I should have spent the money on the DM or VD...

 Would I have the same unwavering thoughts, had I purchased one of the other two? I've no idea. From reading around, I was inspired with less confidence in them than the Compass. Kingwa knows what he's doing, and - more importantly - he's doing it for us, not to please the big high-street retailers or ludicrous printed word in UK magazines.

 For better or worse, I have blind faith in Kingwa's products. I'd willingly buy a £1000 DAC from him without auditioning it - because he has delivered exceedingly superbly with the HDAM modules, and now the Compass.

 And *THAT* is the difference between the 3 DACs, to me at least. I'd not want either of the other two without being able to audition them, or return them after a few days if they didn't suit my system. And they're sub-£200 products.

 Yet I'd give Kingwa 5x as much money without any return capabilities whatsoever. Why? Because he's small enough to care about his reputation. He puts out quality products with no consideration for marketing, magazine promotions, appeal to the internet/gaming generation. He puts out what is - time and time again - top-rate stuff for reasonable money.

 CA and MF - I just don't have the same confidence that I'll be getting something top-rate for my money. They're too big to care much for the people spending this level of money - so long as the product gets a half decent review in a big magazine, has aesthetic appeal to the masses, and can be purchased on consumers visiting the high street, then they've got their market.

 Different products, different markets. That's what it boils down to at the end of the day.

 Kingwa for president! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Apologies if I come across as a fanboy... I'm really not. But to me, there is no comparison between a hard-working small company who put our wants first, and secondly builds the said item before deciding on a price, and a larger company pushing products at a specific price-point, with little care for personal service and little motivation to produce the best possible product.

 Happy valentines day! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DIY DACs/kits are the best bang for buck option for those with little to spend and a willingness to learn how to assemble such things. The Pear Audio stuff, some DIYHIFI kits, other DIY Dacs from the east they all blow away the C Audio or MF V-DAC for less money on average. The Audio-gd stuff speaks for itself. My DIY dac project cost me about 245US overall but I'd say it easily competes with anything 1K and under SQ wise._

 

Do you think there is anything in the 400 USD or lower DIY range that would be about equal in SQ to the Compass?


----------



## Currawong

I think I'm going to have to write up a Compass FAQ. I can't believe we're on 133 pages in this thread already.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I'm going to have to write up a Compass FAQ. I can't believe we're on 133 pages in this thread already._

 

And the unit hasn't been finalised yet


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He also accepts Western Union, which I used, worked out fine, he got my payment within hours and verified. Very easy._

 

Thank you both (Les Garten and mbd2884) for spelling that out for me in terms that helped me understand everything. Well I plan on pre-ordering one this weekend for sure now. Way stoked about this whole thing for sure.

 Do you think it would be "premature" to also order a tube type amp to go along with this since it already has a built in amp? I plan on ordering all three of the OPA amp things (moon, sun and earth) also. So not sure if I'm getting in over my head for a beginner. 

 The tube amps I was considering were either the MK III or the MK IV se, unless someone knows what might be another alternative to research on in this same price range. I want something that I guess would compliment the Compass and possibly my new cans, although I plan on getting more HP's in the next 6 months as well. Something like the HD650's or something on the other end of the spectrum from my new Grado's. I did get my headphones at least today (325i's), so I'm finally up and runnin somewhat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank you all very much for your feedback to my questions, it's VERY appreciated.


----------



## Joeoboe

Are we certain the "Super" label is changed? I was under the impression that he had already purchased a large lot of cases with the "Super" label. 
 I have actually come to like the label. It is quirky in a charming way... but, then again, I used to drive an old 1974 Saab 99!


----------



## Joeoboe

Another item in the works is an amp that Kingwa is designing to match the looks and dimensions (it is 25mm taller) of the Compass. You may want to see how this works out. I think he was shooting for late March.


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another item in the works is an amp that Kingwa is designing to match the looks and dimensions (it is 25mm taller) of the Compass. You may want to see how this works out. I think he was shooting for late March._

 

I'm guessing you were quoting me. If that's the case then I would be more then happy to wait, especially learning about Kingwa's reputation here. I see if I can find some info on his site about it. Thank you for the heads up.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm guessing you were quoting me. If that's the case then I would be more then happy to wait, especially learning about Kingwa's reputation here. I see if I can find some info on his site about it. Thank you for the heads up._

 

There is nothing up on his site about it, I had been discussing with him the idea about making a series of components to match the Compass and he told me he is already working on an amp and gave me the dimensions... you could email him and ask him though.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you both (Les Garten and mbd2884) for spelling that out for me in terms that helped me understand everything. Well I plan on pre-ordering one this weekend for sure now. Way stoked about this whole thing for sure.

 Do you think it would be "premature" to also order a tube type amp to go along with this since it already has a built in amp? I plan on ordering all three of the OPA amp things (moon, sun and earth) also. So not sure if I'm getting in over my head for a beginner. 

 The tube amps I was considering were either the MK III or the MK IV se, unless someone knows what might be another alternative to research on in this same price range. I want something that I guess would compliment the Compass and possibly my new cans, although I plan on getting more HP's in the next 6 months as well. Something like the HD650's or something on the other end of the spectrum from my new Grado's. I did get my headphones at least today (325i's), so I'm finally up and runnin somewhat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank you all very much for your feedback to my questions, it's VERY appreciated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If you are talking only about headphones, then getting a new tube amp now would be premature, as Compass has an excellent amp inbuilt.
 What Joeoboe is talking about is a power-amp kingwa will be taking out in march along with a matching preamp, but these ain't for headphones but conventional speakers.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My system is 90% back but it took me until 4:30 am to finish it up enough to make it secure for today's marathon writing session (ongoing). Needless to say I had 2 hours of sleep today and 5 hours in the last 3 days.

 The one thing I'm going to do as soon as I post this darn thing is go to bed and get some sleep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not experiencing the compressed SS Currawong mentioned. Odd. If anything the SS with the 650's being fed by the Vanguard CDM12 Pro Transport is huge with seemingly no boundaries to it. 

 Well back to the grindstone for me.

 I'm sorry this review is taking so long guys, I'm working like a dog to get it done.

 Peete._

 

Now I feel guilty to even ask you for the review.. I only hope at the end of all this you dont fall sick, that would be really bad.. and Yes, I think Vanguard CDM12 pro would make a lot of difference in what you might hear through HD650..

  Quote:


 I wasn't aware of this. That's too bad. Hopefully this relationship works out for the benefit of both parties. 
 

I hope so too, I think pacific valves sent Kingwa, their audiogon webpage, which Kingwa wasn't too impressed with, he thought Pacific Valves only sells through audiogon like a private seller, he wasnt aware that it was a full fledged Company having its own website, but the strange thing is even after I sent Kingwa the original website of Pacific valves. he wasnt able to open it all day yesterday - maybe its one of those blocked sites in China??.. just a guess but internet is not exactly the same in China like every where else in the world.. in any case, he seems to have read your posting and now he feels Pacifiv Valves is indeed a reputable seller, so he is planning to get back to them..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Never mind everyone's asleep anyway......I had a question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It can wait.


 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

I have rushed through writing this reply, so I hope I understood you correctly.. I am for the ones you are over with NOW NOW NOW.. and the rest later when you complete... I think I am shameless - I just said a while ago that I feel guilty asking for the review..

 Hello Hello.. I am awake..

 Anyway - whatever you feel best...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'll see if I can get part II done and up tonight/this morning er...whatever time it is...are you going to be up for a while Sandchak ? I know it's most likely day time where you are.


 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Peete its only 10 am out here.. so its the whole day in front of me.. NEWS - even people in China (kingwas forum guys) are waiting for this.. you dont know how big this is man !!...

 But honestly, I dont want you to feel burdened -there is so much of hard work you have put in and if you feel it should come out together, then so be it..

 Dont push yourself too hard, Peete, I think its already way past midnight out there, and I don't think many people will be online today because of Valentines day !.. on the other hand if its doable, then I guess you can have a long weekend ahead of you..


----------



## Crikey

Yep, just took a look at King Wa's forum site and King wa has specially reserved some space for Peete's review.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another item in the works is an amp that Kingwa is designing to match the looks and dimensions (it is 25mm taller) of the Compass. You may want to see how this works out. I think he was shooting for late March._

 

Hmm maybe he should have made the Compass DAC only, and this amp, then sold the two together for a discounted price? Unless this is some kind of super duper amp out of the price range


----------



## cynan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_he told me he is already working on an amp and gave me the dimensions... you could email him and ask him though._

 

A power amp to mach the compass eh? And I just placed an order for a virtue audio integrated T-class... Maybe I should have waited! Oh well, the Virtue is getting great reviews. Someone paired it with a Channel Islands VDA-2 (a highly regarded DAC I think - and was very pleased...)

 Anyone care to voice an opinion about how the Compass will match with a Virtue ONE/TWO?

Virtue Audio. We make audio lovers audiophiles. Better sound by design.

_Edit:_ Maybe I will have to get both...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm maybe he should have made the Compass DAC only, and this amp, then sold the two together for a discounted price? Unless this is some kind of super duper amp out of the price range_

 

I think there is a slight confusion, what Joeoboe is talking about is a power-amp kingwa is coming out with, which matches the size of Compass with a little more depth and height.. it has nothing else to do with Compass apart from the size.. its for conventional speakers..

 I might be wrong though.. I guess Joeoboe would be able to clarify better..


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is nothing up on his site about it, I had been discussing with him the idea about making a series of components to match the Compass and he told me he is already working on an amp and gave me the dimensions... you could email him and ask him though._

 

Oh, okay, that's cool man. Thank you for the heads up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are talking only about headphones, then getting a new tube amp now would be premature, as Compass has an excellent amp inbuilt.
 What Joeoboe is talking about is a power-amp kingwa will be taking out in march along with a matching preamp, but these ain't for headphones but conventional speakers._

 

Oh, I see. Well that is the one department I'm no stranger to. My home set up is plenty sufficient. However, I might look into his preamp to hook up two more remote speakers in another part of the house, just moved and don't have everything where I want it yet. Thank you, I'll keep an out for that. Thanks for the advice on the tube amp for the headphones. I'll be patient and hang tight then.

 Actually I do have one more question here for you folks. I gave myself $1000 dollars to spend on this new hobby. I know it's not a lot, but I thought that would be a good starting place. I already spent $300 for headphones and have $700 or so left. Should I still consider going with the Compass and stop there, or should I look at another avenue for the DAT and Amp? 

 It sounds like this Compass is going to be hard to pass up either way, not to mention a good starting point for anyone. Anyway, thank you all again for everybody's help. All the advise is very appreciated.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete its only 10 am out here.. so its the whole day in front of me.. NEWS - even people in China (kingwas forum guys) are waiting for this.. you dont know how big this is man !!...

 But honestly, I dont want you to feel burdened -there is so much of hard work you have put in and if you feel it should come out together, then so be it..

 Dont push yourself too hard, Peete, I think its already way past midnight out there, and I don't think many people will be online today because of Valentines day !.. on the other hand if its doable, then I guess you can have a long weekend ahead of you.._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crikey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, just took a look at King Wa's forum site and King wa has specially reserved some space for Peete's review. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 Wow really ? I better make sure the writing is top notch then. My head is starting to hurt from staring at the monitor. 

 Sandchak it's 2:06 AM here. I have to go to the gas station and put oil in the car. The wife came down at 11;30 pm earlier this evening to tell me that the low oil light came on and "what does that mean" ?....I said it means Low Oil LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be back. I have the Part II synopsis to write still and then Part III is on deck.

 Maybe I should ask Kingwa about posting it like this. Maybe he wants the whole thing at once. I better email him now. Maybe I'll have an answer from him by the time I get back from the gas station.

 Stay tuned.

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Gosh 2am.. thats too late or too early in the morning to be awake.. i guess you have one heck of a biological clock inside you !!.. and on top of that low on gaz.. what a life Peete !!..

 Yeah I think its better you ask Kingwa too, I am sure by the time you are back you will find his reply..

 Anyway, at least I am very much tuned in..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[SNIP]Apologies if I come across as a fanboy... I'm really not. But to me, there is no comparison between a hard-working small company who put our wants first, and secondly builds the said item before deciding on a price, and a larger company pushing products at a specific price-point, with little care for personal service and little motivation to produce the best possible product.[SNIP]_

 

Thank you for this AudioPhewl! Thank you for putting into words something that's been on my mind for the last couple of days and expressing it much better than I could have done.


*To Peete: *Gosh, I'm starting to worry now. Please don't let this whole review business ruin your health!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, okay, that's cool man. Thank you for the heads up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Oh, I see. Well that is the one department I'm no stranger to. My home set up is plenty sufficient. However, I might look into his preamp to hook up two more remote speakers in another part of the house, just moved and don't have everything where I want it yet. Thank you, I'll keep an out for that. Thanks for the advice on the tube amp for the headphones. I'll be patient and hang tight then.

 Actually I do have one more question here for you folks. I gave myself $1000 dollars to spend on this new hobby. I know it's not a lot, but I thought that would be a good starting place. I already spent $300 for headphones and have $700 or so left. Should I still consider going with the Compass and stop there, or should I look at another avenue for the DAT and Amp? 

 It sounds like this Compass is going to be hard to pass up either way, not to mention a good starting point for anyone. Anyway, thank you all again for everybody's help. All the advise is very appreciated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

1000 bucks I feel is a lot of money to start this hobby - atleast I consider myself fotunate to have compass for the price of 258 + ship, to me its a steal really.. I have learnt something from my past experiance and I'll share that with you, if I have a budget of USD500 for some particular equipment, and I find one for USD250 which is really good and suits my need, I wont be stuck on the 500 budget and keep looking for something that costs that much.. I would rather spend the savings on something else or just keep it aside..
 So, if you have a decent source or a PC which you would use, I suggest keep your savings as of now and as time progresses, you can think about upgrading, in this way you will also feel the difference as you upgrade.. its like you grow with the system..

 just my opinions and the way I would approach things..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

*Audio-gd Compass Review*

 I'd like to begin this piece with a generous tip of the hat to 2 people for which this unit would not exist if not for their efforts and dedication. Thank you Currawong for dreaming up this idea, and last but not least a huge thank you goes out to the man that made this all come to life, Kingwa from Audio-GD ! His energy, enthusiasm and dedication to audio is clearly evident once you've talked with him and have had a chance to really study the products he designs and sells via his website. For those not familiar with his web site please take the time to peruse it's pages showcasing Kingwa's many innovative reasonably priced designs . You'll soon realize after such a journey what the excitement is all about with regards to audio-gd products and the Compass in particular. Part of this journey stems from a desire to replace a unit that has it's own appeal and charm rooted solidly in the budget, best bang for buck arena. Without further delay let us begin this evaluation.

*Preface:*

 The stated goal of this unit's existence was declared by Kingwa himself. He intends to build the best combination DAC/Amp on the market in the 500US and under bracket. This review is but a small sampling of opinion of whether or not he has managed to do such a thing, lofty as that goal may seem.

 With that I give you the Compass review..............

*Introduction:*

 This review centers around the 18 units sent as pre-production test samples and as such attempts to give as accurate a picture as possible to the qualities of the unit itself in all facets of importance we as audiophiles deem as such. Sound quality, build quality, fit and finish, packaging, accessories that accompany the base unit and so on.
 Here we have the unit as it arrived at my home and what it came with (extras not included in the shot, audio-gd mains cable and Canare digital COAX which will be addressed on their own further on in the review)


















 As you can see the unit comes packed in a sturdy cardboard box surrounded by protective foam. My unit survived the DHL journey unscathed but was held up in Custom's most likely due to a back log of products sent before the start of Chinese New Year. General specifications can be found at ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1 along with the latest updates from Kingwa about the final production model based upon decisions made by the 18 testers in the group that received a test unit to evaluate (of which I am one obviously).

*Included Accessories:* (unless otherwise noted *)

 1 TOSLink optical cable 1M length
 1 Pr of RCA interconnects 1M length (estimated)
 1 USB cable 1.5 M length (estimated)
 AC Mains cable US plug style 1.5 M length (estimated)
 1 bag of jumpers (2 installed at time of shipment for default 19db gain setting) 
 * OPA module shown in photo is not included as standard accessory.

*Optional Accessories:*

 Listed on Compass web page/ Audio-gd web site. Discount available for some options at time of Compass order. See web page for all details.

*Front Panel Layout:* - From left to right - Power switch (labeled "Power"). Headphone output Jack (labeled "Ear Out"). Super switch (so called "Bypass" mode). Large aluminum Digital input selector knob (unused spot,USB,Coax,Opt (labeling from left to right rotation). Same diameter aluminum level knob ( labeled "Volume"). Straight forward clean layout easily read and understood. Solid feel to all switches and potentiometers.

*Specifications not listed on the website:*

*Power Output:* - 32 Ohm load - 2W output max (not long term)
 150 Ohm load - 600 mW (long term)
 250 Ohm load - 350 mW (long term)
 300 Ohm load - 300 mW (long term)
 600 Ohm load - 150 mW (long term)

*Tonal Shaping Options:* - Soft modes in the form of gentle roll off slopes in the high frequency range.Selectable by labeled jumpers on the amplifier board internally. (jumpers supplied as part of the accessories shipped with the unit).

 Soft Mode 1 - 5Hz (-1db) - 30KHz (-3db)
 soft mode 2 - 5Hz (-1db) - 24 KHz (-3db)
 soft mode 3 - 5Hz (-1db) - 17 KHz (-3db)
 Neutral mode (default setting at time of shipment) 5HZ (-1db) - 60KHz (-3db)






 (Photo courtesy of Audio-gd / Compass web page)

*Gain Settings:* The default setting is 19db with a second setting (for preamp output function) of 13db. These settings are subject to change as are the soft mode settings depending on the outcome and wishes of the test groups findings. Please see web page for jumper combinations and locations.

 19 db - jumpers on 
 13 db - both jumpers removed

*Compass Inputs and outputs* - My test unit came with the preamp function that will be standard in the final V2 version. 

*Preamp Output* - requires gain jumpers be set at lower setting (yet to be determined for V2 but 13db for this review). Mini switch toggle on back panel selects between headphone output and preamp output.
*Line In*- analog line level input which requires the engagement of the "Super" control on the front panel to bypass the DAC section.Will accept any standard voltage analog line level source.

*Digital Inputs* - USB (PCM2707 chip),TOSlink Optical, SPDIF 75 ohm COAX all selectable via front panel selector knob. Please Note : selector has 4 positions, 3 of which are used. 

 This is intentional by design.

*Headphone Output* - Neutrik locking 1/4 inch stereo jack.
*DAC Line Output* - bypass headphone amplifier section. Line level DAC output at standard 2V.










*DAC Options* - 

 Socketed gold pin DIP8 connector allowing use of Audio-gd OPA discrete circuit modules and compatible IC based Opamps. The test unit's shipped with an Earth and a Moon module . The Moon module was installedat the factory.(both units are the latest examples of each ). 

 Please Note : Final production Compass will only include 1 of these modules, customers choice at time of order. Additional modules as well as accessories available with discount pricing at the time of order (for the Compass). Compass modules will have ground wire terminated with ring terminal to be installed as shown on the web site. Photo provided here shows close up of OPA module and it's ground wire location. Important Note : Compass must be powered down to change OPA's. One must also observe correct orientation marks for DIP8 socket and OPA/IC based Modules. 

 Both are marked. 

 Failure to observe this correct orientation may result in damage to both the DAC and the OPA installed. Be careful when swapping OPA's. Consult manufacturer if you have doubts and or questions.








*Compass build quality Highlights & notes** - *subject to possible change with V2 production model. Yet to be fully determined although main sections such as DAC, Power Supply and discrete analog output stage are set AFAIK. Updates and corrections will occur when finalized unit's configuration is known.Parts listing errors, if any, will be corrected ASAP. Please feel free to point any errors out.

 Motorola Fast type diodes
 No coupling caps in the signal pathways
 All 1% tolerance Vishay/Dale resistors - matched pairs in signal pathways. Generic good quality resistors - metal film/metal oxide types.
 Full discrete topology in analog amplifier stage and DAC output stage (user swappable modules)
 Silver plated OFC hook up wire.
 CMC RCA jacks - V2 jacks upgraded to copper billet/24K gold plated 
 Neutrik 1/4 inch Locking Headphone jack
 Analog Devices AD1852 Digital to Analog converter IC - 24/192 Khz capable
 DIR9001 Receiver DSP -low jitter
 Burr Brown/ Texas Instrument PCM2707 IC used for USB input
 Dedicated transistor regulated power supply
 Low Phase Distortion analog filtering - DAC
 Toshiba & Hitachi transistors - matched
 Alps RK27 50Kohm Vol pot - Wiring details - see photo below
 Alps power switch and input selector
 Evox (Rifa) film caps
 NoVer Electrolytic caps - UK made, Audio Grade.
 100% Aluminum chassis - Dimensions - W 250 mm x H 75 mm x D 255 mm - Front panel thickness 8 mm
 Fully shielded 50 Watt Toroidal transformer 100-120V or 220-240V primary - customer specified at time of order. No universal V switch used because of Sound Quality degradation. Transformer is rated at 120V 
 or 240V instead of cheaper 110-115 or 220-230V competitors.
 Rectifier PCB installed separate from power supply - part of shielded transformer assembly.
 PCB construction - 2 mm double sided gold plated through hole type. 70uM copper.
 13,200 uf of mains filtering capacitance. NoVer Audio Grade RX11 (3,300 uf x 4)
 Ground loop breaker circuit - 2 diodes 1 resistor as seen in photo of Internal Layout (upper right IEC location).

*Alps RK27 Volume Pot Wiring details :*






 (Photo courtesy of Audio-gd / Compass web page)

*Discrete Analog amplifier stage :*







*Rectifier PCB :*






 Please Note: 50W Toroidal Transformer is located in shielded box under rectifier PCB.


*DAC PCB :*






*Internal Layout*







*Part I of III - Listening Evaluations* - *DAC Evaluation & Comparisons*

*Preface*

 This section will cover the Compass DAC section using a different method than normal in order to gauge one of the typical uses this unit might see. That is as a Preamp/DAC feeding a traditional 2 channel stereo system. The main reason for breaking this evaluation up into two parts like this is to maximize time spent studying both main uses the Compass is likely to see and to gauge it's performance against and with components that are of much higher quality (price wise anyway) than what this unit might normally see. That and I was very curious to see how it stacked up against some really good (IMO anyway) gear, some of it well known, some of it one off DIY kits with heavy modifications performed on them. You will note that just about everything I have has been tinkered with to gain higher fidelity from them (that's the idea in theory and in practice works out 90% of the time, the other 10% are abject failures of course ) Although failure can be painful, mentally and financially it's also a very valuable part of the learning process or so I would like to think !

 I would like to thank those of you that have followed this lengthy review thus far without nodding off, changing the channel etc.....grab a coffee, kick up your feet your going to be reading for some time yet, sorry to say.


 A rotation or core of evaluation CD's was used, painstakingly giving the rotation full play per component and notes taken during those sessions. It is from those notes and the experience of listening to these CD's that I gained valuable insight into not only the Compass but my own gear's pluses and minuses. Interestingly enough some of these revelations broke down some established preconceived notions I harbored about my own reference system for which these particular tests were run on and with. The first part of this evaluation deals with the previously mentioned DAC of the Compass, it also deals with a comparison to the FrankenDAC and to a much lesser extent the FrankenZERO. The other half of this section deals with the Preamp function of the Compass and how it compares to the MeiXing MC-7R all tube preamp and the Nelson Pass designed Adcom GFP-750 SS Passive/Active Pre. Both of those having been heavily modified once again by yours truly. In other words if the stock units weren't stiff enough competition for the Compass the modified units should surely put the Compass squarely in it's place ? 

 And now for the listing of test gear used. I feel I have to include this information even though it's boring to read about and even more boring to type out .....I apologize for the following insomnia cure otherwise known as the official......

*Test Gear Listing :*

 2 Channel Traditional System listed in no particular order - Only the equipment used during the evaluations will be listed.

*Analog Source :* See Corporation "Revolver" Turntable with Mission tone arm and Ortophon OM20 MM cartridge, Yaqin Tube MS-12B Phono Preamp loaded with NOS Amperex 12AX7 x 2, NOS RCA 12AU7A Clear top x 2.






*Digital Sources :* Vanguard CDM12 Pro Top Loader Transport, Auzen Prelude 7.1 PCI Sound Card Optical and SPDIF combo jack output, ASIO driver Auzen/Creative - EAC accurate rip FLAC library using latest 
 foobar2000 rev media player.FrankenDAC DIY DAC - uses CS4397/CS8416 chip combo - has been heavily modified with NOS mil spec Russian T1 Teflon and NOS K40Y-9 PIO film and foil caps. One Earth module and one 
 Moon module.FrankenZERO ( differences in SQ noted are from memory ) DIY upgrade of popular Zero DAC/Amp.











*Preamps, Tube and Soild State :* Adcom GFP-750 passive/active modified SS preamp, MieXing MC-7R all tube preamp (32 lbs) - also modified extensively using NOS K75-10 PLIO/T-3 Teflon capacitors - NOS Ken Rad JRC-JAN 5U4G full wave rectifier,2 x NOS RCA 12AX7 grey long plate square getter, 2 x NOS RCA 12AU7 gray short plate round getter. Both pairs matched triode sections matched.Compass SS







*Power Amps, Tube and Solid State :* Odyssey Stratos SS Stereo amp with 130K uf mains filtering upgrade (58 lbs), MeiXing MC34-AB Dual Mono tube amp - 8 x Winged SED EL34 (matched octet),2 x NOS Sylvania 6SN7GTB, 2 x NOS Sylvania 12AT7 black plate,Auto bias, Power transformers in separate chassis, true dual mono 2 output transformers and 2 power transformers (30 + 55 lbs).






 Stock blue bottle EL34's replaced with Winged SED.






 A nice night shot for a change (hides the darn dust that accumulates faster than I get rid of it it would seem)

*Main Speakers :* Eminent Technology LFT-VIIIB Planar/Ribbon mid/tweeter panels,dynamic 8 inch bass drivers housed in acoustic suspension cabinets,Edison Price Music Posts (Bi wire capable) 84db - 1M efficiency, Set up according to Cardas speaker placement formula for dipole/electrostatic/Planar magnetic types in 28 x 33 ft room. Concrete floor,walls (5 of 6 surfaces). Speakers are 6 ft tall and tough to
 photograph properly. See Eminent Technology website for better shots of these.

*Sub Woofers :* Dayton Audio Titanic series 12 inch driver, 550 W plate amp, 3 cu ft sealed acoustic suspension 2 inch thick MDF x 2. L/R subs in stereo, plate amp XOVER bypassed using direct LFE input. 
 Outboard Paradigm X-30 active XOVER (DC power supply) set for low pass at 55Hz (variable from 35Hz-150Hz), high pass 1 output (50Hz) sent to LFT-VIIIB bass drivers,High pass output 2 (120 Hz) sent to mid/tweeter panels. LFT-VIIIB internal XOVER used only for planar mid to ribbon tweeter. 6db per Oct at 10Khz. Mid panel handles 180Hz to 10Khz, Tweeter rolls in around 7Khz according to Bruce Thigpen the designer of the Eminent Technology planar panels. Sub tower also just under 6 ft tall and difficult to photograph.

*Cabling for Reference System :* Nordost Blue Heaven II speaker cables 1.6M banana plug terminations (2 pairs in a shotgun
 configuration),Nordost Blue Heaven RCA IC ( DAC analog out to MC-7R Pre/Adcom GFP 750 SS Pre ), MIT MI 330 Series II and Series III RCA IC's x 6 pairs (Impedance matched to Paradigm X-30, Odyssey 

 Stratos,MeiXing MC34-AB from MC-7R Preamp), Better Cables Silver Serpent .5m Silver/Copper SPDIF 75Ohm COAX, Better Cables Silver Serpent 1.0M RCA IC's to Digital parametric EQ (room correction for subs inline after X-30 and before Subs LFE inputs ),AudioQuest Sub 1 RCA IC's 3M x 2, YYW 1.5 M mains cables x 6 (gold plated IEC and 3 prong plugs,ferrite filter on each end),DIY Cryo treated 14 gage Belden 3 wire plus spiral wrapped drain and ground in Teflon tubing using Hubbel IEC and 3 prong plugs x 4, 
 John Risch design DIY mains cable kits using 14 gage Belden in PTFE x 4, Monster Cable IDL 100 COAX SPDIF 2M, Monster Cable TOSLink 2M, Various length generic TOSlink cables, MSB SPDIF 3ft Copper/High 
 Definition 75Ohm.

*Room treatments & correction :* Live end back wall half insulated,dead end front wall half insulation with DIY bass traps in corners, End wall corners (top L/R) DIY corner traps. Side wall reflection and floor reflection DIY diffusors. Digital parametric EQ notch filters correct room loading and suck out in sub bass to low bass region (22Hz-85Hz flat +-2db using 8 programmable stereo ganged custom ranges,variable Q,boost + cut +- 20db), Sub phase time aligned with main L/R speakers. Ceiling of room treated with Roxul Safe and Sound 3 inch sound proofing.

 Phew thank god that is over with. I swear listing all that gear makes my head spin at times. Sometimes I wish I had a super simple setup but that feeling only lasts a few minutes after firing the that system up and hearing the music flow from it. Obviously no where near what the main stream audio types would classify as high end but looks and price tags can be very deceiving which brings us to the Compass and it's promotional price of 258US (not including shipping). Could it measure up ? How does it sound and what level of fidelity does 325US (roughly) shipped get you these days ? Now is the time to find out how it measures up. 

*First up the Reference System DAC evaluation and comparison.*

*Reference System + Compass :* Compass Dac line out (Super mode engaged) Monster Cable 1M IC's, Vanguard CDM12 Pro Transport TOSLink output using Compass stock .5m optical cable. CD input on MC-7R preamp. Level set at 72db (via SPL meter in sweet spot seating) "C" weighting Fast Mode. Mature Earth module used throughout all testing (for all DACs except where noted). Compass at 19db, Neutral setting.

*CD rotation :* In no particular order, The Phantom of the Opera - Rebecca Caine & Colm Wilkinson 1990 Canadian Production, Dead Can Dance - Wake 2CD Compilation "Best of" 4AD Studios, James Newton Howard & Friends - Sheffield Labs Master series CD23 DDD recording,Dream Theater - Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence - CD 1 well recorded Metal album that has some excellent tunes on it (hey this has to be fun too), 

 The The - Infected Venerable recording for the genre, clean dynamic, loads of fun, classic CD from the Alternative scene in the late 80's, Emerson Lake & Palmer - Brain Salad Surgery very well recorded album another Classic of off the beaten track style of music (classically based and played with a analog synth twist) from the "over the top" 70's. 

 Please Note : The ELP CD was dropped from the rotation during the Headphone system evaluation/comparisons.

*COMPASS DAC/Ref System Listening Evaluation :*

 Compass unit hour count at the start of the evaluations 275 on Feb 5, 10:15 PM. 45 minute warm up.

*Up first is Dream Theater - Six Degrees CD 1 :* *FrankenDAC highlights - Pulls every last detail off the CD,nothing glossed over or left out,slight warmth to the presentation,Earth module keeps everything on an even keel,no frequency band is emphasized over any other. Impressive localization of vocals with the harmonies well delineated. panning effects easily followed throughout the sound stage. Depth of sound stage revealed with ease allowing a real intimate examination of the Artist's and the engineer's concept for the CD with regards to panning,special effects, delay,reverb,mixing etc....(*BC SS COAX/Nordost BH IC's into CD input MC-7R)

*Compass DAC Line out into MC-7R Auxillary Input *- Level matched 80db. Optical/Monster IC's : Highlights - Equal bass impact & weight to FDAC, Imaging centered precisely with solid sound stage anchored slightly off center by the drum kit. Kick drum dynamics are impressive, taught drum head resonance clearly heard although sometimes lost when things gets complex,Upper mid grain noted earlier in burn in process now gone entirely but mids still recessed, dynamics less than FDAC.Highs rolled off at the very top of the frequency range. I expect this to change as the Compass matures.Timbre of bass guitar strings right on the money, fingering sounds can be heard, pick attack etc...snare all clearly heard but not as lively as I thought they could be.

*James Newton Howard & Friends :* 72 db C weight Fast Mode - Dry recording very lively,dynamic and expertly executed by the musicians and sound engineers. This CD is a real bell weather for cymbals,electric piano, various percussion instruments and effects such as cow bell, wind chimes, triangle etc..All of the sounds expertly captured and mixed. Now if the actual music was up to the job. Ok, so it's not exactly my cup of Joe. 

 Nevertheless this is an important disc for establishing overall competency of a unit with regards to timbre, PRAT, correct handling of decay, imaging and sound stage. It serves the purpose well and has been in my collection for over 20 years now. If a DAC/amp can get this CD "right" it's a fairly good indicator of overall fidelity with the vast majority of genres. It's somewhat Jazzy in nature but strictly within the realm of structured recognizable disciplined play. I did notice a slight ringing quality that seemed slightly out of place in the upper mid,lower treble region on track 3 (triangle and chimes seem to blend a little). Slight image smearing when things get complex (as much as that is possible with a four piece band with no vocal track). On the other hand the piano rendition was as good as I've heard it from this CD. Imaging as as solid as I've ever heard it. Kick drum is very dry and heavily damped as are all the drum heads....I guess they wanted no overhang from the shells resonating freely. Personally I find a little of that part of the appeal of a drum set being played expertly. Anyhow even with them damped as such they are reproduced exactly as they are recorded with no overhang, no odd frequency enhancement. 

 The 3D qualities of the CD are quite engaging. The Compass DAC manages to covey all of this information save for the last ounce of Air around the cymbals in the upper treble region. I still attribute some of this roll off part and parcel of the continuing process of burn in. At this point as I switched the source back and forth for an on the spot quick A/B I still hadn't realized the cabling to the two units was not identical and therefore may have an influence on what I'm hearing via the reference system.

 I digress,

 Up to this point I haven't mentioned SNR. It could be because I was enjoying the CD so much it didn't enter my thought process until the CD had almost ended. In other words there was no noise to distract me with or bring attention to itself. Total velvety blackness as they say (who is they anyway ?) Another really noticeable trait is lightning fast transient response and iron grip off the bass. You couldn't get tighter even if you managed to fit into the jeans you used to wear in High School !

*The FrankenDAC *(72db level matched....) seems to have a slightly bigger sound stage, each instrument more 3d like then the Compass with the dynamics a little quicker to rise to their peaks and that sparkle up top that seems to be missing from the Compass. It's there but not as prominent or as even in balance as I know it should be.This CD sounds fantastic through this DAC (Earth and Moon HDAM modules installed) Cymbals and keyboards have correct "jangle" to them. Get's the hair standing up on the back of the neck, gotta love that !! Everything sounds well integrated , inner dimension and body of instruments fully revealed integrated as a whole. Wonderful swing and snap.

 An then it hit me. How can I give the FDAC the best cabling I have and then expect to evaluate the Compass with another completely different and markedly inferior set of cables....Gahhhhh I've just spent the last 3 hours giving opinions on gear where the playing field was stacked in one piece of gear's favor. Believe me when I say this I hadn't thought about that at all when setting it all up. I thought the cabling shouldn't make much of difference....could it ?

*Leveling the Playing Field :* 

 From here on in the cables used are exactly the same set for all comparisons of Compass vs X . Vanguard CDM12 Pro Transport ---> BB SS Coax + Nordost BH IC's + YYW or Audio-gd mains cable (both sound remarkably similar but that's for another section's discussion). Any changes will be noted such as some tests do not require the BH IC's. Compass uses the Audio-gd mains cable at all times, YYW for the CDM12 Pro Transport.YYW mains cable for the FDAC.

 Back to the regularly scheduled new and improved program where the test is now fair and balanced like FOX News. Level matched at 72 db once again.

 Okay everything has been reconfigured and powered up, time to hit the play button again. No doubt about it the same cabling has narrowed the gap between the two considerably. It's now a really tough job to pick out anything glaring but I'll try. It seems the two have identical abilities in nearly all aspects save for that rolled off treble region and ever so slightly lower dynamic capability. Man it's spitting hairs with the latter though. Presence region has a little less vibrancy, the snare not having the same snap as the FDAC. Imaging and 3D qualities are now dead even if not slightly better with the Compass.

*90db short duration near live level test (same tittle):* Wow...talk about startling realism. It's like somebody kicked the transistors in the arse and told them to wake up ! What strikes me right off the bat is the utter buttery smoothness of the Compass at this volume level. An about face of sorts as the treble doesn't seem as rolled as it was at a lower volume. Hmmmmm. In any event the presentation is beautiful and captivating in every sense of the word. Toe's are now a tappin' !

 Time to bring out one of the heavyweights and see what delights are in store before the wife comes home and I'm forced to go back to 72db or lower,

*The Phantom of the Opera :* 90db level matched C weight fast mode.

 What strikes me right off the bat is the scale and grandeur of the opening 5 tracks, each cut a tour de force showcasing the vocal ranges of Rebecca Caine and Colm Wilkinson, the subtleties and power of the orchestra and the utterly unflappable presentation of these by the Compass. That is no easy opening set of tests for any amp/dac. The first 5 cuts cover the entire gamut from delicate to powerful, from deep bass to highest of highs, dynamic swings from near whisper quiet to full scale. The Compass handled and handles this CD without even breaking a sweat. The FDAC and FrankenZERO also do well with this album but not to the level of finesse the Compass manages. Here is what really stood out above and beyond the FDAC and FrankenZERO, percussion from the tiniest strike of a single chime to the bombastic thwack of a 
 kettle drum the dynamics, shape and timbre of these distinctive sounding instruments are faithfully presented without embellishment or any compression of any kind. Sounds simply well up from out of the black and grow in scale unencumbered as they do so. Dynamic contrast is so important to setting the mood for the track. The Compass is simply superb in this area. I get completely lost in this CD from start to finish.

 Seems my time has run out for the 90db test, the wife has come home but I manage to recruit her for a minute or two (actually 5 minutes) to give her opinion on the Compass delivering her favorite track on the CD "Think of Me". Here are her thoughts of the track. Clear, uncompressed crescendos when full orchestra comes in with female vocal, no distortion at peak gave me goosebumps and shiver up the spine. She had this to say at the climactic conclusion of the track "brilliant". Obviously I asked her to describe things beyond "Wow" and "brilliant" and did make some suggestions but she i s tough cookie to impress and the last word of hers sums up the Compass performance with this CD.

 Further thoughts from the 90db test with this CD are as follows, FDAC has slight edge in overall bass weight but imaging and other aspects of the performance that give us the illusion of a near live event in your listening space are eerily present to such a degree with both units that it's really tough to choose one over the other. They both give the CD a terrific sense of realism and space. With those last tracks now concluded the 90db high level evaluation for that evening were at an end.

 Another good indicator of a well rounded system and source is it's ability to deliver a superior experience at low listening levels. I chose another fantastic CD (both Artist and recording are top shelf IMO) to gauge the fidelity at 60 db.

*Dead Can Dance - Into the Labyrinth : *Rather than explain the details in lengthy drawn out thoughts I will present the most compelling experiences and thoughts from this session, the only low level investigation of the review. The salient points are as follows, Imaging and sound stage project well beyond the speaker boundaries,no loss of detail or impact from micro and macro events throughout the opening cut "Yulunga". All the additional FX (synth FX, bird calls etc) and atmospherics rendered as well as I've ever heard them.Percussion of all manner and type faithfully reproduced with correct tonal qualities,cymbals shimmer without annoying digital sheen, height width of sound stage seemingly unrestricted by artificial means (for a multi-track studio recording this is no mean feat). Resonant qualities of mandolin and other middle eastern/east European instruments have correct edge, and timbre. Body of the mandolin is woody in nature almost 3D in delivery. Sounds precisely like the real thing live. Lisa Gerrard's amazing vocal range and styling all clearly laid out and rendered with finesse. Brendon Perry's equally unique voice filling in the harmony marching in lock step with Lisa's ethereal nasal and throat shading as she delivers parts both fine and delicate to forceful and powerful. None of it compressed or confined in an artificial boundary. The Compass and to a lesser extent the FDAC and FrankenZERO all mange to give this CD an excellent listening experience. The surprise of the low level test clearly being the continued improvement of the Compass as it matures.

*DAC Section Synopsis:*

 AT the beginning of the serious evaluations, in my mind that being around 268 hours or so, some previously held notions of how I thought the evaluations would go, held for the first 24- 36 hours. That being the expectation that the stand alone FrankenDAC and the heavily modified Zero would have the edge performance wise. I did however expect the Compass to improve as time ticked by but the extent to which this improvement would occur remained a mystery (although the sound quality differences mirrored burn in progression the audio-gd modules go through). In the first part of the DAC comparo I had made a slight mistake with cabling thus muddying the initial results somewhat giving the DAC mentioned an unfair advantage. Having remedied that situation the preconceived notion of ranking was thrown into doubt. At first the FDAC had the advantage by the slimmest of margins, a bit of a surprise considering the FDAC's quality and build, with the Compass now pulling ahead of the FrankenZERO in areas I considered Frank to be vastly superior in only 30 hours earlier. Such is the change that burn in brought to the table. At 290 hours the Compass is either at par with or superior to both DACs in three critical areas the other two excel at. The first being musicality, the second being treble response (is it digital or analog in nature) and finally bass response. All three DACs are capable of sounding as analog as it gets with the Frankie managing to sound nothing like digital at all (an astounding feat considering it's cost ) followed closely by the Compass and lastly the FrankenDAC. The Compass may not sound as good as Frank in the treble region but it absolutely sounds better everywhere else including the FrankenDAC. I know the comparison units I have may not be of much help trying to imagine where that ranks the Compass but I can only compare the Compass with what I have on hand. Those of you that have a FrankenZERO or something similar to a FrankenDAC (I would say it competes very well with the likes of a Benchmark DAC 1, Pac Valve Brigatta etc ) the fact that the Compass surpasses the both of them overall is a great achievement by itself. At 258US the DAC section is 129US......amazing performance for that kind of money. After the promo the cost will rise to 200US per section. A better bang for the buck cannot be had that I know of. I think that thought sums it all up. Kingwa and Audio-gd get a solid, holy mother of god this is a damn good DAC for the money award from this end user. Absolutely recommended even if you plan on using the DAC section only this unit delivers fantastic performance vs dollars spent. 


*Post Script : *I guess that says it all, the cable switch really did level that playing field considerably, but the real story was the improvements in the DAC from 260 to 300 hours. In that 40 hour time frame the game changed entirely in the Compasses favor. I did expect some tightening of the gaps among the three but to this degree the result was a pleasant development that I will gladly take.

 With the Compass now around 300 hours, I wonder what the next 100 hours plus have in store ? 

*Part II: Preamp Evaluation & Comparison -*

 The second half of the reference system comparison and evaluation will deal with the quality of the front end of the Compass in preamp mode. Some the test group had this feature installed before shipment mine being one of those units. Since this feature is one the options that had great appeal with the Zero it's inclusion in the Compass became a standard option. The test units late in the development phase had omitted this feature of which none of us caught the mistake until a week before the test units were to be shipped. No matter the final production units will have this feature as standard. The function of it is really straight forward, a mini SPST toggle on the back panel selects which output to route the signal to, either the 1/4 inch headphone jack on the front panel or to the L/R RCA outputs on the back panel. The function of this feature is an either or situation which should be self explanatory. 

 The preamp tests in this section include the following configurations : Compass pre out (MIT MI-330 Series III IC's) direct to the Paradigm X-30 XOVER and then split to the amps/speakers/subs. The Compass using it's internal DAC being fed via the same cabling used previously (BC SS COAX, Nordost ICs not needed). The Comparison preamps being the Adcom GFP-750 and of course the MeiXing MC-7R. The DAC section of the Compass will be used throughout to keep the variations outside of the preamps being tested to an absolute minimum. In those cases the connection from the DAC line out to the CD inputs of the other two preamps will be handled by the Blue Heaven IC's as was the cabling in the DAC evaluation. I realize the comparison to the MC-7R will be redundant from the DAC evaluation but I feel it needs to be re evaluated if for no other reason than to compare the Compass to that preamp to see if more hours on it had made improvements. I think that made sense. The bright side to this section is that it's relatively small compared to the other sections. 

*Up first if the Compass feeding the X-30 XOVER :* Same CD rotation with the addition of ELP-Brain Salad Surgery to liven things up a bit. Compass gain set at 19 db, levels matched at 76 db (max 80 db peaks) "C" weighted Fast Mode. Rather than concentrating on evaluating on a per CD basis I simply listened to each album back to back once through the Compass pre and then once to whatever was on deck for the test.

 Compass Vs MC-7R, Tube vs Solid State : 

*ELP- Brain Salad Surgery :* The Compass is smooth, extended with plenty of separation of vocals and instruments, plumbs the depths and scales the heights with equal capability. Typical of SS pre's the bass is slightly more under control than the tube amp, but it's not by a whole lot as the MC-7R may be a tube pre but it's remarkably refined and lacks for little (especially so after the mods). The Compasses midrange is lovely. I could hear no strain or glare but did detect some strain and glare in the upper mids. Now what could be the issue ? Took me another 5 minutes of checking cabling to realize I hadn't dropped the gain as Kingwa had told me to if I ran the preamp section. Doh !!! Power down everything, unplug it all...get out the allen key. 10 minutes later I'm back up and running this time back tracking to the beginning of the CD. The lesson here is for most gear 19db may be a little hot. It sure was for my X-30 and amps. Another clue of which failed to register was the Vol pot being at 7 o'clock position for 76db. Slaps head once again.

 Right so everything is now back in place, hooked up properly and now powered up (need to give the tube stuff time to cool and to warm up). I now press play on the CDM12 Pro.....set the levels to 90db (measured at the sweet spot with the trusty SPL meter). Luckily while I was mucking about pulling the gain jumpers the wife went out for the afternoon, knowing that I needed to listen to music for the review. 90 db it is at around 10:30 on the Vol pot . Hit play once again.....THATS BETTER .....much better in fact. the previous setting had tipped the upper mids and treble region up a little too much skewing the top end balance in favor of a brighter,leaner , and harsher presentation which was at odds with what I was hearing when using the 650's the night before. Now, that section that tipped me off to the gain setting error, sounded altogether different, more in balance with the frequency spectrum. The best news, the glare completely eradicated, in it's place a six "o" ed version of smooth, as in smooooooth ! The standouts here are the piano, electric keyboards organs and of course Kieth Emerson's reason for fame, analog synthesizer. All the various shadings of the piano and the analog synth's with their difficult to reproduce scale and textural harmonies seem to not bother the Compass front end in the slightest. As if it's saying come on, you can do better than that. I'm really liking what I'm hearing in case you hadn't guessed it by now. The Compass is giving me an unvarnished look at this CD while managing to keep it musical and slightly warm, just the way I like it. The MC-7R does an equally fine job of this in terms of texture and frequency extension, it's in the details where the Compass pulls slightly ahead. To me this is astounding performance considering how much better the MC-7R is to the stock Adcom GFP-750 that had previously occupied the pre slot in the Reference system. I'd like to explain the difference a little better. It's not gigantic by any means, it's small details like focused sound staging, clearly defined edges around the instruments, decay rendered without premature cut off, hearing the pick scrape or drum stick tap the rim of the snare, the vocalists mouth forming to sing a phrase all rendered correctly and sounding "right". These kind of details are what separates good from great and great from state of the art. I'm not saying the Compass is SOTA but it's not to far from great either. With this CD I found myself wanting to spin it again just to make sure but held off from the urge, so I could cue up something even better. If I had to pick one here it would be the MC-7R but only by the slimmest of margins. That slimmest of margins had to do with this particular amps amazing 3D imaging stage depth and textural qualities, not to mention it's dynamic slam and bass extension (yes bass extension). The highs are what set the two furthest apart with the MC-7R delivering the goods while the Compass fell a little short. All in all though that's pretty darn good for a "gulp" budget combo. I simply can't imagine what a full Reference level Audio-gd system would be like if this is the kind of sound quality you get from the budget line. 

*Dead Can Dance - Wake CD2 :* The opening cut of this CD has been hailed by many an audiophile as the reference track's reference track. I agree with that entirely not because it's technically brilliant or the music is anything special, but for the power and emotion that is captured near perfectly. I feel with this Artist's body of work there are few library's of such depth variety and consistent recording excellence. The otherworldly vocalizations that Lisa Gerrard is capable of simply make one's jaw drop. The Compass and the MC-7R render this track with amazing delicacy and dynamic power. The scale and grandeur of the entire CD is simply mind blowing. Some of you are probably wondering or scratching your heads thinking what kinda crack is this guy on, I've heard this CD a number of times and its nothing like he says it is. Ah but you need to turn it up.....90db or more for this CD to come to life. Same goes for Headphone listening. It has to be loud. Now that you know the secret.......Picking out the point where Lisa goes from nasal shading to opening up her considerable pipes and range is presented without any strain at all via the Compass as if this kinda thing is an everyday occurrence. Hey no sweat I can handle this. This CD just sounds beautiful, period. I've heard this track a thousand times through the Adcom and the MC-7R, the Compass is the equal of them without a shred of doubt. This is stunning performance. The obvious conclusion being, feed the gear with a high quality signal from a high quality source and you'll get an equally high quality experience from the Compass. I'm as impressed as one could be considering the difference in cost here. The Adcom at 1.5K and the modified MC-7R with all NOS glass is pushing 1.2KUS and here we have in the blue corner wearing the black trunks with the silver trim....the 258US flyweight.

 I have to try the Adcom out right away before I wake up from this dream....Now the Adcom is no longer in it's stock form either so the Compass should not be able to best this preamp, surely not, could it ? The topology of the Adcom is all discrete as well but it has a number of film caps in the signal pathway being one of the large differences between it and the Compass. The Adcom also has a fairly beefy and stout power supply section as is the custom of Nelson Pass to build amps this way. I took his amp one step beyond and replaced all the poor quality parts (that the Adcom bean counters insisted on no doubt) and eliminated some parts that didn't need to be in there. The result of which elevated it's performance considerably. With that introduction the Compass must have met it's match. Again I'm sticking with the DCD-Wake CD since the tracks are fresh in my head and time is of the essence for comparing them with any accuracy. I cued up the Cd and pressed play. The Adcom sounds wonderful, every bit as detailed and powerful as the other two. The dynamics and bass slam of this pre are outstanding. 

 The difference among the three is quite small however. Interesting to say the least but I feel the Compass is just about even with the Adcom, that is a major surprise to me. If there is one advantage it's the vocal shadings have more texture with the Adcom, this is by the slimmest or margins though but neither amp compares to the MC 7R in this area. Tubes for me render the female and male voice much closer to real than solid state does. However the difference again is very very small. Certainly this level of performance is dependent on the supporting cast doing their part, the real point of placing what amounts to a 200 dollar preamp into a big buck signal chain is to find out how far it can go and man can the Compass go far. As far as I'm concerned the biggest revelation during this review has been the preamp sections sound quality feeding my reference gear. If any of my preamps suffered a mishap and needed repair I could easily substitute it with the Compass and be happy with it long term. That pretty well sums it up or says it all in my opinion.Audio-gd and Kingwa in particular is to congratulated on a fine amp. This level of performance is without peer in the price bracket it occupies, that goes for the final price after the promotion ends as well.

*Part II Synopsis :*

 The Entire unit is top shelf from the Dac to the Amplifier and as such I shouldn't be all that surprised with it's performance in my main system but I can honestly say it not only exceeded my expectations it's reset the bar of what I consider good. It's refreshing to know that a small core of dedicated builders are not only manufacturing great gear for good prices they are willing to work with customers to deliver what they want. This is something that has been missing from this hobby for so long from the regular channels the thought of having this kind of quality again IS wonderful.

 I honestly feel that Kingwa and Audio-gd have met their goal of producing the best entry level combo dac/amp in the marketplace. The Compass is the standard as far I am concerned (500US and under) and would most likely give gear costing twice that a good run for it's money. I know it will, it gave mine all they could handle.


*Part III - Headphone Evaluation and Headphone Amp Comparison*

*Preface:*
 This section will deal with the Headphone portion of the evaluation and as such represents the vast majority of my evaluation spent over the last 7-10 days with the Compass.
 I think it's worth mentioning the major differences one encounters when going from a traditional stereo as a listener to the startlingly close, if your face feeling placing a good set of headphones on your head can present. What I mean by in your face is the totally different yet entirely unique experience close monitor (near field is the actual term) listening will give one. In a lot of ways it's like sitting a few inches away from the L/R monitors at the mix down desk of the 2 channel mastering room. The only real difference is the way the speakers interact with the hearing. Two of the largest drawbacks of Head Fi are directly related to where the drivers reproducing the signals are located, the angle to which you listen to them and of course the distance. Sound staging suffers to a great degree with headphones as does front to back depth in terms of artist instrument placement. Many many models,styles,designs of headphone have come and gone over the years trying to overcome what I like to call the "singer in the center of my skull" syndrome. A few really innovative designs have come close with the latest kick at this can (pardon the pun) being the HD800 from Sennheiser.

 Adjusting from the traditional to the near field takes some attitude adjustment of sorts and the confluence of terms that normally would have 
 separate meanings with a traditional listening experience. For instance the terms sound stage and channel separation can sound almost identical while wearing headphones but will be very different in the traditional listening position. Depth and height become somewhat elusive with headphones whereas the ...well you get the picture.

 The same CD rotation from Parts I & II for the most part are used once again for this section in order to keep any changes to a minimum 
 making evaluation of the various amplifiers an easier task.

*Gear Line up* is altered somewhat and will consist of the LD MK III using NOS Sylvania 6AK5WB Black Plates, Round getters and NOS 6H30P-i DR supertubes, NOS Mil Spec T-3 600V 5% Russian Teflon bypass caps in output coupling stage, NOS K42Y-2 500V .033uf PIO bypass on all large filtering caps in PSU stage, Kiwame, Vishay 3W metal oxide,metal film resistors in key areas. The previously mentioned Adcom GFP-750 Preamp acting as the front end for the Jaycar KHA (Kit Headphone Amplifier , thanks for that Sennsay !) DIY kit that is all custom parts, matched 1% 1/2w & 1W dale resistors in all signal pathways, Vishay 1% 1/2W metal film, 1W metal oxide, Elna Cerafine Electrolytic caps (uprated from 100 and 470 uf to 220 and 1000uf 35V), Poly box caps dropped in favor of NOS PIO (.1uf)/NOS Sprague Orange drop (.01uf), Input coupling caps for L/R channels 10uf 160V NOS Russian OIL impregnated paper in a can (like the old Western electric types) 50's vintage (matched perfectly) bypass network on those consists of 1uf MKP and .1uf MKP Film and foil cap, all jumpers and fuse blocks replaced with soft annealed solid core 99999 silver wire 22 gage for signal path and 20 gage/18 gage hybrid for fuse jumper (no assembly for fuses installed). A fuse less setup. Silver wire protected with clear Teflon tubing. Soft annealed copper magnet wire used to wind inductor/chokes (18 winds per coil,approx), Audio-gd Moon module with 1000 hrs + and Burson Audio cap mod (1uf 160V K42Y-2 NOS PIO cap), Audio-gd 2008 Edition Parallel Stabilized Voltage Supply Board set up for +15 -15V 690 mV current per rail, Avel Lindberg 30VA Toroidal Transformer 115V primary/dual 20V secondary 1.6A current.
 Last but not least the Compass setup for Neutral operation 13 db gain, Earth module 1000+ hours (BA cap mod using NOS PIO super cap pak - 2 x 
 .22uf + 2 x .47uf 160V K42Y-2 paralleled to V+ V- of OPA), Audio-gd mains cable (upgraded mains cable vs stock 14 gage),Nordost Blue Heaven .6m IC's (when needed), Better Cables Silver Serpent SPDIF digital Coax .5m silver plated copper hybrid with shielded outer layering. 
 Audio-gd Canare L-5CFBA SPDIF cable + Canare RCA connectors-Made in Japan.

*Methodology Introduction :*

 Rather than repeat the format of Parts I and II listing impressions of each amp vs Compass using the reference CD rotation the process being put forth in the following content of Part III will be a subtractive view. An explanation of this method will make the review and evaluation of Part III a little easier to gain a good idea what the competition does not do compared to Compass rather than listing a massive collection of repetitive findings and letting the reader deduce the differences through subtraction process of their own. The section covers the same rotation in this format, the Compass evaluated first using 1 of the CD's of the rotation and then following that up with the same CD right away with the amplifier in the comparison. Repeat the process and take notes throughout the rotation while continuously switching back and forth as each CD runs through twice. You can easily imagine how time consuming this becomes when you add in a third and fourth unit for
 comparison. As it is I have limited the comparison to what I have on hand. 
 It is by no means a large sampling of the headphone amps available in the marketplace but the units I have are the only ones I have to compare with the Compass. They sit squarely in the budget range and as such are good company for this comparison's purposes however incomplete from a layman's point of view. The Little Dot Mk III is a popular low cost high value tube amp while the Jaycar is a well respected and surprisingly good solid state amp from the DIY genre. The Jaycar may have a really modest price tag but don't let that fool you, in fact, all of these units and the main focus of this review, all share the same attributes. High value and SQ for the dollars paid. 
 It seems to me that price vs performance in the new millennium is no longer the indicator of sound quality or build quality it once represented. That being the old adage of you get what you pay for isn't exactly representative of any of the gear I have bought in the last decade. 
 At least not from a conventional sense. Although the axiom still is a general indicator of quality at a box store such as BB,FS or retail chain Hi Fi stores (which most have converted to Video more than audio to remain afloat) the rise of direct marketing from Factory to consumer via e-commerce has been the formula that has greatly changed the game with regards to the term and as such we are lucky indeed to have such quality choices for the dollar spent literally at out fingertips. That is the new reality of audio and that relationship is bearing some high quality fruit indeed.

*Head Amp Comparisons :*

 The first amp of the comparison is the Jaycar using the Adcom GFP-750 preamp as the front end (buffered active/passive mode vol pot) with the 
 first CD of the rotation of this section being...........

*The Phantom of the Opera - 1990 Poly Gram cat # 847-689-2 - Genre Opera/Classical contemporary*- Written/produced Andrew LLoyd Webber - Levels matched L channel 3/4 in from driver 650's stock cable - 76db - 80db peaks, C weighting, Fast mode. Compass DAC section used 
 throughout Part III evaluations.

*Jaycar KHA IID/Adcom GFP-750* 
 The KHA/Adcom combo right off the bat is very well balanced from top to bottom and imparts and utterlyruthless in exposure of source material. Not unexpected as this trait was apparent before the Compass came into my possession.This combinationeven with the Moon module in the Jaycar is very Neutral in nature and is fluid and light on it's feet. The passage after the opening commentary of theauctioneer is the signature theme song of the CD and as such manages to sound grandiose and refined at the same time. The Hall echoes just the before the opening theme of the auctioneers voice are perfectly heard with the reverb trails fading into the a black back ground. Very good noise floor with this combination. The Moon module despite it's known voicing does not detract from the Jaycar but rather enhances it thinner lower end presentation by giving it a little more heft in the mid bass region and sweetens the highs just a touch to give it a more analog feel. It's a perfect OPA for the SS KHA and the Adcom front end feeding the Jaycar. As the tracks progress a certain familiarity is imparted to each and every track heard through this combo, it took me a while to nail it down but I feel this is the heart of theJaycar/Adcom combo. 
 It's even very Neutral,extended, never strident or fatiguing. It just does it job without unnecessary additions to the signal it's given. Voices are tactile and 3D, strings are a little thin but have the correct texture. It seems right and for the most part is right. This CD is a joy to listen to through this combo and is very close to the Compass I feel in many areas.

*Compass :* Levels matched 76db-80db peaks C weighted Fast mode. Slightly better bass weight, mid bass region has more texture, 
 Lower register of organ during opening theme full, dynamic and powerful. The organ chords and pedal notes sound like they are alive. It's hard to describe precisely but the notes are thick yet quick with smear or blurring of the tri tones that make up some the chords played. 
 Each octave heard clearly and distinctly. Similar to hearing a really great guitar amp and perfectly tuned guitar playing an open E or D chord and then combining into perfection as the sustain and harmonies interact with the speakers of the amp. Sorry getting side tracked. 

 That's pretty close to the description though and those that have heard both (live church organ and a great guitarist with a vintage Marshall) will immediately understand (I hope) the connection. Strings and brass have the correct feel and timbre present. Brass has that unique resonant honk (for lack of better term) that is "right" man this is really well reproduced with scads of separation around everything, there is no compression despite pace and complexity building into a climatic peak. Wow that gave me a real shiver up the spine at the end of "Think of Me". Absolutely no strain or distortion whatsoever on that climactic end to the song. I want to listen to that one again......There is a slight roll of the very high treble region but frankly it doesn't bother me in the slightest. It doesn't detract from the experience. 

 The SNR is outstanding. Notes just emerge out of nowhere,background noise not meant for the recording can be heard...shuffling paper ,sheet music as the pages are turned, slight movements in the seating, all there in the background if you listen really closely. The all important presence region is alive with the Compass. Detail and texture, percussion cues (snare snap has some rather high frequency content) seem to have near 3D qualities to them. Triangles , cymbals and other somewhat delicate sounds have the nuance and power behind them depending on strike strength. Excellent is a word that keep popping into my head. I'm really enjoying this immensely.

*Little Dot Mk III :* Right away the opening track sounds a little softer and rounder in nature, nit quite as defined around the edges with some detail loss and softening of the leading edge transients of the organ notes and the percussion underpinning the piece much like a punctuation mark. It sounds good with the customary tube sound that makes the Mk III such a popular entry level tube amp. The rendition comes across as a little flat and not quite as natural as either solid state amp. Having gotten used to the MK III for the last year and the KHA over the last 3 months the gulf between all three is wider than I expected. Still the Mk III for 200US does a commendable job with the deficiencies on the opening track sins of omission rather than commission. Where the glowing bulbs should excel is the vocal and midrange frequencies and as expected both female and male voices sound wonderful. During the climax of track 4 where Miss Caine (I'm assuming she's single) there is a little a bit of strain noted that the KHA and the Compass lack entirely. Another noticeable trait is the rolled high frequencies affecting "air" and space of theperformance. A lot of realism that is necessary for the illusion of reality is found in the faithful reproduction of the frequency spectrum's extremes in terms of correct balance and reasonable clean extension far beyond actual hearing ability. I know that sounds somewhat nutty but in practice really does make or break the "illusions" believability when one's eyes are closed. A simple experiment is to take a graphic EQ and cut the 20hz and 16Khz bands by -12 db or more (-24db is ideal) and then listen to whatever piece it is you would use as a reference recording. A frequency sweep would be equally effective (just make sure you turn the master vol down before using the sweep).
 It seems at this juncture I've already become quite accustomed to what the Compass can do and have to think it's really well thought out in terms of power reserve and the ability to deliver that power cleanly and quickly. Another angle of the vocal climax of track 4 could point to just how much the power supply of a unit is so important to handling momentary dynamic peaks but also sustained dynamic peaks. The Mk III seemed to peter out some, strain the vocal and then compress a little while the Compass just took it in stride and didn't break a sweat. 

 These dynamic swings that seemed well reproduced with the Mk III previously now appear limited in scope compared to the Compass. Of all the 
 traits throughout the this CD that is the one difference that stood out the most. That was a surprise. I'll need to go much higher up the ladder in the tube amp filed (I knew I'd have to anyway at some juncture) to outdo the Compass with this recording. Possibly the MK VI or Darkvoice 337SE may be the ticket. The Mk III came in last place with this CD. That surprised me since I figured the tube amp would take a close second with this CD. Obviously the listening tests proved that wrong. The Compass wins round 1.

 The next Cd in the rotation is,

*Dream Theater-Six Degrees of Turbulence -CD 1 - Genre - Progressive Metal *-Level matched 76-80db peaks C weight fast mode. 

 Compass DAC in Super Mode

*Jaycar KHA IID/Adcom GFP-750 :* Two attributes stand out right from the start of this disc a good overall tonal balance with a slight forward push in the lower mids that is likely due to the Moon module. Whatever is responsible for the slight mid bass/low mid push it certainly goes well with this genre and in particular this artist. It's right around the frequency band that gives the disc some real oomph. Conversely the bass region seems lighter in weight compared to the Compass. The degree of "body" given the individual instruments (notably the bass and kick drums/floor toms) seems smaller in scale, well to be honest it is smaller in scale with the rendition given the same piece with the Compass. 

 The Jaycar/KHA does have good separation and tracks the vocal and instrument layering clearly and without difficulty giving the various elements their space.The qualities are quite realistic save for the weight of the bottom end which I know from the reference system simply thunders along with loads of deep powerful clean bass. Petrucci's guitar tone and playing style is given proper "majesty" for lack of a better term. The man is truly gifted with a 6 or 7 string instrument. Knowing what the Paul Read Smith guitar is supposed to sound like live the Jaycar/Adcom amp gives the correct timbre and bite during heavily over driven sections of the disc while swicthing gears to clean without batting an eye. The singing sustain Petrucci can coax from the PRS is no easy feat with the resulting creamy overtones as the gain isincreased...it seems as though one could soar away into the sky on the solo contained within the track "misunderstood". What a great song that is. This combo is ruthless in it's exposure of bad recordings but I would expect a neutral and truthful amp to do such a thing anyway. The Compass seems to take the track to new levels of enjoyment. The slight nuance of the guitars harmonics beginning to emerge as the notes morph from fundamental to harmonic overtone, slight fingering changes deftly reproduced. The Jaycar could present these but the Compass fully reproduced them in an incredibly realistic fashion. Sent chills down the spine (a first for me using
 headphones). Dynamics seemed smaller in scale but had all the control and speed you would expect of a half decent amp. Vocals and vocal styling is not overemphasized with regards to sibilance or spitty with P and T words. The artificial atmosphere created with the additional FX treatments paint a fairly convincing picture although the illusion is much more realistic with the Compass. The differences here are quite small but can be compared without much effort. The relaxed approach to some of the tracks epic roller coaster like ride is the perfect foil for the really aggressive parts. The Jaycar and Adcom present these diametrically opposed forces in rather polite way while the Compass really gives the two a little more emphasis and detail. Emotional highs and lows of the disc are deftly written and masterfully played. If you like Progressive Metal Dream Theater's material will keep you coming back for more. The Jaycar/Adcom does a great job with this CD.

*Little Dot Mk III :* Before I get into the meat and potatoes of the MK III's showing using this CD I should say first off I don't expect a OTL tube amp to compete with a SS in areas such a bass extension, amount or control, that being said I really thought the differences wouldn't be as marked as they actually were. With that I'll get right to the heart of the differences. First off the biggest and most easily discerned difference is just that bass quality and quantity, the control of what was there and the lack of finesse the MK III displayed (even with premium tubes and mods). This was a bigger surprise to me than any other comparison yet made. The MK III is no slouch even though it is an entry level tube amp so is the Compass (entry level of a sort). Bass in general lacked coherency giving a slightly obscured look at what was being played. String noise and other cues that the bass guitar was being played by a human were almost completely lost in the mix. The SNR level is very good so it's a matter of overall resolution versus background noise being at the heart of the matter. 

 IMO at least.You certainly don;t get the level or realism that the Compass manages to uncover. In a way I expected some of this to come true but not to this degree.In some respects the tube amps strengths lie elsewhere but at the same time the tube amp strengths were also mirrored by the Compass in the critical midrange region. No easy trick to have the best aspects of both types combined into a solid state amp. I have experienced the transition from a tube amp that can sounds as good as the best solid state but never the opposite of that. I'm sure that has to do with the careful attention paid to matching the transistors and resistors in the amplifier sections. No doubt the unit is using Class A topology since any other type to these ears just can;t put off valve like quality from silicon in this way. To be completely honest and fair the MK III does a darn fine job of it it's just completely outclassed by the Compass. The Jaycar/Adcom does a better job than the MK III but does not give that mid magic of either amp. Still the one area I thought might be the Tube OTL's sole domain would be vocals. Even here the vocals seem to be coming more or less from a centralised mass rather than emerging and floating around the piece (as it's panned left to right front to back) as they should. Instrument separation was also
 noticeably inferior to either SS amp. You could pick them out one by one if you really tried but that effort shouldn't be a necessary requisite to a
 relaxing and engaging experience. The other amps were much more coherent and of a piece in this area.

 The Mk III clearly took the 3rd place ribbon with this CD.

*Compass :* Even though it seems like a forgone conclusion by reading the other two amp "sheets" for this CD I'd like to stress the differences here are not as cut and dry as they might seem from my notes. In some instances the level of difference is preference rather than black and white. It's not surprising to anyone reading this right now that a solid state amp should be able to stomp all comers in the metal genre. In this case that is entirely true and here is why the Compass because of it's muscular underpinnings can produce bass, dynamic swings in full scale full bodied glory without breaking much of sweat in the process. Why is that ? It all comes down to power supply people, it simply has the headroom and horsepower to spare making the most challenging of all peaks somewhat trivial. I'm not saying the Compass is the best thing since sliced bread. Far from it. If anything the Compass does more right than it does wrong and that's pretty much an axiom you can apply to most good and great gear. Nothing is perfect although I do think we are getting closer to the ideal as the years pass. 40 years ago solid state was awful...just awful. If it wasn't for a few topology geniuses late in the 70's I think solid state would have never been taken seriously by the Audiophile glitterati (some of them still do not accept digital of which I was one of those...no more however). One of the interludes during the crazy track that is "misunderstood" transmogrifies from ethereal to downright primitive rhythmic raunch which is expertly portrayed by both the
 Jaycar/Adcom and the Compass but the extra definition, bass weight and power the Compass gives this section is so close to "right" (in a live
 situation) that it naturally becomes the de facto standard of how to do it "right" in my experience. Loads of amps over the years fail to deliver the sheer power that is this genre. It really takes some serious horsepower to do it anywhere near live levels or illusion. 
 The headphone experience fails or falls considerably short in this ultimate regard but it's also closer to what I would call "right" in this sense short of visceral cues. I tried something the other day that actually was more of stumble into something rather than deliberate in nature. I left the volume control for the subs up at it's normal level while I shut down the other amps to the main speakers to plug in my 650's for a listen of this CD (once again) and was startled to find out the subs were still going....man did that give the headphone experience a major kick in the realism pants though....WOW is all I could say at the time. Try it guys if you a decent musical sub in your
 listening room. It's a really startling thing to suddenly have the visceral
 impact of the passage I described earlier for real while wearing the headphones. Granted the wife wasn't impressed but you can bet I'll be trying this one again when I get another opportunity. That experience just illustrates the difficulties the headphones have when it comes to ultimate "illusion" with amplified music. The Compass does convey this power better than the other 2 amps do without question.I found it so easy to get lost inside the recording itself and wander around effortlessly making mental stops wherever I wished. Totally cool. The layering and mix mastering of Dream Theater CD's is as good as it gets for the genre without a doubt although the loudness disease is an issue with this artist. The layering and vision of the epic tracks (some are nearly 20 minutes in length) is something laid bare aurally by Compass in the most pleasant manner possible. The sound staging tends to be centred and within the boundaries of the
 headphones for all but a few overdubs meant to wander outside those boundaries. Sort of an out of head experience almost which is really neat but gimmicky if overused. Thankfully I find nothing overused in this disc. What a solid and fun experience using the Compass with this genre. First place for Prog Metal over the MK III and Jaycar/Adcom by a country mile.

 Next.......

*James Newton Howard & Friends - Sheffield Labs CD 23 DDD Master recording - Genre - Contemporary Jazz -1984* 76-80db peaks C weighted, Fast mode.

*Jaycar KHA IID/Adcom GFP-750 :* As mentioned before this recording is somewhat dry in the drums and bass or rythem section which 
 imparts a somewhat artificial quality to those instruments compared to the live versions of such (depending of course on ultimate setup and personal preference) In any event the first tracks strike me as a little less organic in nature but equally clean and pristine as is the nature of the master.The frequency spectrum has a good balance with no particular band receiving emphasis. Bass weight is shy of the Compass once again even with the help of the Moon module in the Jaycar attempting to add some mid bass warmth. A little less sparkle or air compared to the Compass although still quite convincing through the combination. Keyboards and piano have some upper mid sheen the Compass does not have. Sound stage is somewhat flattened but still quite acceptable. As mentioned previously the drum kit is heavily damped throughout the CD. 

 The Compass and Jaycar/Adcom portray this quality with accuracy but the Compass takes this accuracy a few steps further by giving the drum shells and skins more texture. The snap of the snare is more lively and realistic with the Compass. The crack of the sticks during the 4 beat count in on track 7 is a truer depiction of the event through the Compass. It'srather intriguing how small details like this add up to a larger overalldifference by the end of the CD. The Jaycar is no pushover with this CD as it doesextremely well with competently mastered recordings. It certainlydoesn't give it's price tag away when you listen to it. It's worlds better than theFrankenZERO's head amp section although my particular Jaycar is far from the stock build and usual power supply. That being said the Compass edged out the Jaycar/Adcom with this CD because of the details and intangibles.

*Little Dot Mk III :* Before I slipped the headphones on to listen to this amp I felt that if any CD in the rotation that needed some warmth provided by a tube amp then this one would be it. The Mk III did so but at the expense of critical details in the frequency extremes. A familiar pattern you could say is beginning to emerge.I can't help feeling the inescapable reality or realization of which I find myself wanting to go back to the Compass to hear how it should sound ! The treble and bass are rolled off to a rather noticeable degree. The bass is a little loose and wooly,treble a little muffled and obscured. Talk about an eye opener. Of the three amps in the comparison this one is the "generic cola" to the Compass's "real thing". In the all important sound staging and 3D qualities that are present on this CD the instruments seem to have a haze or layer that separates one from the "real thing" in such as way that at first listen isn't immediately noticed but as the tracks are played the realization sets in that this could be and is better through the solid state amps. That isn't an indictment of tube amps by any means just this one. The Mk III is a fine budget tube amp but the Compass just outperforms in all aspects that matter.

*Compass :* Right off the bat the transient response and crispness of the recording are what immediately strike one. It's like a bracing dip in the lake on a cool summer morning,you know when you wake and
 things are a little fuzzy until your head hits that cold water and everything's snaps into instant sharp relief. The expert mastery of the musicians over
 their respective instruments is brought into a whiter light. I'm not particularly fond of the genre of music this CD emulates but I give credit where credit is due as the fluid flow of this CD because of the masterful portrayal get's my toes a tappin' which if you know isn't easily done. At any rate the material is light in emphasis with a certain tendency towards being too perfect in a
 way. I mean from a recording aspect although it's certain when this was recorded digital gear at that time and misconceptions about it ran rampant (1984 after all). That being said the Compass delivers this album with
 surprising weight and just the right touch of warmth that could be helped further along with the insertion of the Moon module (I'll have to test this out at a later date). As stated earlier in the review I've used this CD for years to judge gear with knowing it's shortcomings and considerable strengths back to front inside and out. I think I can recall entire passages in my sleep including special effects and such...(dear god noooooooo). However the Compass simply eats this recording up and spits it out as good as I have ever heard it. It wets my appetite for the C-2C that is for sure. The standout highlights of this cd were the various percussion effects/instruments/tinkly noise makers that some drummers just can't get enough of ( Carl Palmer, Neil Peart, come to mind ) like the triangle, cow bells of various size/tone and pitch, wood blocks, chimes of all manner all rendered beautifully without any odd
 emphasis or noticeable roll off in "correct" tone and pitch. They sounded like they should from live performances I've attended both from the front row in a small intimate venue and the well attended large hall where most of us will be and have been exposed to such unique sounds. The sound stage is narrow and compact with this recording but with that said the 3D quality the engineers managed to squeeze from the recording is utterly spellbinding through the 650's. I still enjoy this CD 25 years on even more so with the Vanguard/Compass/650 system.

 Next CD.......

*THE THE - Infected - Epic/CBS Records EK 90746 - Genre Alternative/Indie - 1986* - 76db-80 db peaks, C weighted, fast mode.

*Jaycar KHA IID/Adcom GFP-750 : *This CD and the artist I feel are under rated as far as song writing, musical arrangements and lyrics are concerned. I feel this mid 80's CD is a perfect example of great music recorded extremely well slipping under the radar in a decade that was mostly forgettable if your only exposure to music was via top 40 or MTV. Simply said I think THE THE should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame if for no other reason than the supremely witty and politically charged lyrics not to mention the expert song writing. 

 OK now that I've gotten that off my chest lets delve into how the Jaycar Adcom present this venerable artist over the Sennheisers. The opening cut is lively and well presented filled with dynamic shifts, crisp percussion loads of details all evenly reproduced. Vocals seem a bit flat and somewhat dry which is certainly not the case over the reference system although the difference is large by any means. Decay and space seem right but somewhat muted in scope as the decay trails off to an abrupt stop rather than a gentle fade into the background. Another treatment is stridency in the upper mids on violin strings even though the detail of the bow is not obscured. To be honest this stridency may or may not be recording related. Oddly enough the synth version of strings sound just right. There is good separation to the vocals and subsequent harmony overdubs. What this combo lacks is the sheer drive of the Compass, it sounds like a smaller version of the Compass presentation. The recording strikes me as more digital in nature than via the Compass which has the opposite effect sounding closer to analog than digital. The FrankenZERO has this trait in spades and I bet it's because of the AD1852 DAC (in part at least). As far as detailing is concerned the Jaycar/Adcom has every bit as much as the Compass it just doesn't sound as natural as the Compass. The micro events or effects treatments added post production to the recording are not as integrated to the base musical piece as the Compass presents them. Interesting to note that this CD has superb post production values with careful attention paid to panning positioning and vocal layering that is outstanding in it's immersion qualities via the regular stereo listening experience. It tends to collapse a little using the headphones and at times can be confusing as the panning effects seem to appear and then disappear somewhat in the sound stage. It's tough to quantify into words until you listen to this CD for yourself. It's a subtle effect that is only reproduced through the headphone experience. At any rate the effect seems to emanate from the same plane at times when I know for a fact it's front center left and fades into the right rear quadrant of the sound stage during two channel listening. The headphones track this but you lose the depth somewhat.The Compass however seems to do a much better job at dealing with these complexities but it to has some problems with the CD in that regard but it's much less distracting. I'm picking on something that the average listener would think...what are you talking about. Maybe I'm nitpicking here. For the most part these post production effects and layering of the vocals are pulled off and done well. The Compass does give the entire scope of the effects a better portrayal.

 Moving on



*Part III - An early conclusion -*

 First off please accept my sincere apologies for the delay in completeing the main body of the Compass review (Part III has been cut down nearly in half). I can offer no other excuse for this delay other than to say some personal reasons and health issues contributed to it not posting on time. Suffice to say I'm now posting what has been a difficult review to complete and to rewrite (a number of times) to make it somewhat manageable in terms of a shorter read. With that said the obvious conclusions to draw from this review are simply this. 
 For an entry level, do it all Swiss Army type device, the Compass offers solid value in terms of sound quality and qualifies as a genuine "Bang for Buck" unit. It is not a be all end all device, no amp or DAC is but for what you do get for your money, it's a very solid choice in the 350US and under price bracket. At the beginning of this project with Currawong the main impetus and driving force behind it's creation and the myriad other members that contributed to it's birth from concept to reality, a major debt of thanks must be attributed to Kingwa and the staff of Audio-gd. Without them none of this would be possible.
 The real winners here of course are the end users as this amp/dac is a perfect gateway device into the world of half decent audio while managing to remain affordable. In that sense the Compass is a major triumph and solid choice.

 The gear itself remains it's best spokesperson. I wouldn't have it any other way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


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## Pricklely Peete

Ok....I'll be up for a while....let me know what you think guys....the largest part is still to come...I'll get to work on it sometime tomorrow.

 Peete.


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## sandchak

WOWWW PEETE ! I haven't read a SINGLE word yet.. but I think you should call it a day man ! it must be past 3am out there..

 THANKS a LOT..


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## gavszero

Gidday Peete,

 Did you by any chance slot in the Hdam with the burson cap mod in this review , you know those green beauties you sent me ... ? Be interesting how it goes in the compass compares to Kingwa's cap mod .

 Mate you got me checking from morning to night for this review , you got me excited now . But yeah don't let me pressure you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah going by the forum this compass seems to be a damm good buy for the money. I'm definitely getting one for myself , got a couple burn in Hdams to slot in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gavin ..


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## shampoosuicide

sorry please delete


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## Pricklely Peete

You know it Gav. The entire thing was done with a PIO capped Earth module in the dac.

 Peete.

 PS Off to the Gas station...brb in 15 minutes


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## Pricklely Peete

Thanks for the kind words......this is by far the largest project I've worked on for quite some time with a large part of it still to go.


 Peete.

 PS dang I can see the notepad word wrap has messed up the spacing again....work on that later


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## insyte

Yehey thanks for posting the completed parts of the review


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## techfreakazoid

Truly an epic review! Thanks Peete for sharing your experience and all your hard work.

 --tf


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## shampoosuicide

Peete, thanks for a great review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Could you briefly directly compare the DAC section of the FrankenZero and the Compass? How much of a step up is the Compass over the FrankenZero, and in what aspects?


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## sandchak

I just managed to breeze through it and I feel I have to read it through a couple of times more to really grasp the enormity of the review, you truly have gone in very deep in this .. its really unfortunate I cant listen to my Compass now and even worse as I cant enjoy the changes as Compass evolves.. but then going through your review I feel I didn't miss out a lot..

 I know you didn't add your name to the top of that list, you must be a very humble man, but to all of us, you are right there on the top.. for the efforts, dedication and most of all, you have always been around whenever we needed any help.. If Curra is the Father of this thread, you sure have been the Big Brother !!

 Just finished printing and back to my reading...

 Thanks Peete.
 __________________


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## shampoosuicide

Also, I hate to interrupt this wave of comments re. Peete's review, but what is the opinion on the DAC-19 SE? At 450 USD it fits nicely into my budget.


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## wizia

Holy **** man you rock, thanks!!


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## Pricklely Peete

That's a tough call shampoo but I'd have to say it's a big step up in quality and at 450US it's a bloody steal.

 Hmm the differences between Frank and the Compass. Let me get back to you on that. My brain is tapped for comments at the present time.


 Sandchak and fellow members :

 Thanks again for the kind words I really appreciate the support. Can you believe that only represents 50 % of the notes ...the MK III/Adcom Jaycar/Compass comparo is in Part III. As is the FrankenZERO.

 Man it's freezing outside....could barely hold onto to the dang oil bottle while pouring it into the er um oil thingie...shivering my ass off while pouring. The guy in the station must have been having a good laugh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Peete.


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## shampoosuicide

No problem, take your time Peete! You must be exhausted.

 I'm a little confused by the first line in your post... Are you referring to the DAC-19 SE or the Compass?


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## godluvsxs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, I hate to interrupt this wave of comments re. Peete's review, but what is the opinion on the DAC-19 SE? At 450 USD it fits nicely into my budget._

 

DAC-19SE is a very good dac, based on what I read in audio-gd chinese forum, it's comparable to the HI-END's level. Recently there's a guy bring along his audio-gd CD7 transport + DAC-19SE (only using the RCA output instead of the current transmission tech.) to a seasoned audiophile house for a comparison with his JAW DROPPING setup: Audiomeca MEPHISTO II.X CDP (USD11k), YBA preamp+MBL9008 poweramp (USD48k), KRELL 5 drivers（15inch bass）floorstander, cables (USD19k).

 Guess what! CD7+DAC19SE could reach 80% of the Audiomeca MEPHISTO II.X CDP, this freaking CDP costs USD11K! All the comparison was done with the UBER expensive setup! The audio-gd COMBO just lack slightly in depth and vocal emotion! Mind you, the DAC19SE was only using it's RCA output instead of it's promising Current Transmission Tech 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If possible, try to wait for Reference 3 to come out, i think it's same spec as DAC19-SE but coming with the DSP-1, which significantly minimize the digital signal quality difference between hypermart grade DVD player and hi end CD transport, u will just save urself some money cos hi end CD transport aint cheap at all


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## Pricklely Peete

Shampoo I just looked over the 19SE again to refresh my memory. It uses 2 PCM1704UK chips. Those are the highest grade 1704 and are 40US each from digikey. The DIR7001 an excellent servo DSP. The only one better than it is the Cyclone II chip Kingwa uses in the Ref 1 and Ref 3 and an older Cirrus chip, the CS8614, is said to be slightly better but that's arguable.

 I don't think you'll do any better anywhere than 19SE at that price. 

 I'd go for it...it'll be the heart of a great system to build around for years to come (IMO of course).


 Peete.


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## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem, take your time Peete! You must be exhausted.

 I'm a little confused by the first line in your post... Are you referring to the DAC-19 SE or the Compass?_

 

Yes the 19SE. I'm pretty tired but not too bad considering. Must be on my third or fourth wind by now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


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## shampoosuicide

Thanks again Peete! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have you by any chance had the opportunity to listen to it? When you call it a big step up, is this in comparison to the Compass or the FrankenZero? Sorry I'm a little confused.


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## tinseljim

Thanks Peete for this great and in depth review! Thank you as well to CW and AG. 

 Peete that is truly an epic review and after reading it all I think the Compass will be a force to be reckoned with. 

 As a result I'm thinking of jumping the ZeroDac ship and landing on the Compass.

 Thanks again and I look forward to the headphone results : )


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## Pricklely Peete

A big step over all of them. I haven't had the chance to listen to it but judging by what I see from the internals I'm fairly confident it'll live up to that educated guess.


 Peete.


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## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Peete for this great and in depth review! Thank you as well to CW and AG. 

 Peete that is truly an epic review and after reading it all I think the Compass will be a force to be reckoned with. 

 As a result I'm thinking of jumping the ZeroDac ship and landing on the Compass.

 Thanks again and I look forward to the headphone results : )_

 

Thanks TJ....it's a terrific choice no doubt about that.

 Peete.


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## dBs

Superb job. Very in depth. Its length is a two part statement; your thoroughness and the versatility of the Compass unit itself.

 The only thing I would suggest is to give just a brief sense of what kind of music some of these CDs are. Some you go into great detail that the singer has amazing vocals and such, but Im not certain if the singer has amazing vocals in symphonic metal or a jazz piece =X That would be the only thing I could possibly nit pick about and its only a very small thing, so nothing to concern with, IMHO.

 It would be interesting if down the road the Compass had a sister unit that was balanced. That would be a long time down the road but its an intriguing thought to consider.

 As it stands now, Im sold, even if I was already sold to begin with XD

 You should send this review to one of the audio magazines out there (Ive never read a one honestly =X). With a review like this theyll have to give the Compass a look themselves. Maybe theyd just print your review to save themselves time/money, hahaha.

 Once again, epic work!


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## Currawong

Great work PP. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I just wish I had my speaker set-up to test the Compass with, which regrettably I couldn't bring with me to Japan.


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## mbd2884

Interesting review PP.

 Quite the collection of audio gear for comparison also.


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## NikZ

Wow!! very good read. Looking forward to the next part.


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## Doorknob

Great review Peete.

 However I can't find a reference that you used a headphone anywhere in the review. Maybe you just used your speakers throughout the entire testing?

 Also I see you have noted that you heard a great change in Compass somewhere in the 240 to 300 hour mark. For me, sometime during the next two days of me owning my Compass, I felt that the trebles were no longer way in the back but with the instruments and after two weeks of burn in, Compass gets a huge, and I mean huge, soundstage change. Its incredibly huge, but at the same time feels very detailed.

 Based on your observations it seems to be recommended way to use better cables for this equipment. Currently I have a Volex 17604 mains cable and stock optical cable in use. Hopefully if I can convince my folks to somehow get me a glass optical that would be nice, but it doesn't seem possible now.


----------



## haloxt

Most people seem to be of the opinion that glass optical cable isn't significantly better than plastic optical cable just as long as the plastic isn't total crap. I got 3 different stock optical cables and using them from my iriver h120 to compass, it sounds almost identical to pc+asio+stock usb to compass.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks again to all for the kind words.

 The test CD rotation covers the bases from classical, progressive classic rock, alternative 80's indie, 90's middle eastern/irish folk (Dead can Dance can't really be nailed down to a single genre I find), to 21 st century Metal, and finally some smooth jazz.

 If you look up the album tittles that info comes to light but your right I should have included what genre. 

 Part III I can rectify that shortcoming. It's also in Part III where all the headphone results are contained.

 There is more to come. Quite a bit more.

 Doorknob the changes occur from 100 hours to 350 hours or so. From what I can tell there hasn't been much change past 350-400 hours or so. Maybe a final smoothing and extension of the highs out to 400 hours. Tyson's prediction or estimate of 400 hours appears to be correct, not that I doubted his advice.



 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

With today's advances in plastics I would agree with haloxt. 

 The generic glass cable can be had for 25US so it doesn't have to be an expensive purchase, the same plastic based cable should be equally inexpensive. 

 The TOSLink cable that comes with the Compass is just as good as any of them IMO. So there really is no need to buy another one unless you need one longer than 1M.


 Peete.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great review Peete.

 However I can't find a reference that you used a headphone anywhere in the review. Maybe you just used your speakers throughout the entire testing?

 Also I see you have noted that you heard a great change in Compass somewhere in the 240 to 300 hour mark. For me, sometime during the next two days of me owning my Compass, I felt that the trebles were no longer way in the back but with the instruments and after two weeks of burn in, Compass gets a huge, and I mean huge, soundstage change. Its incredibly huge, but at the same time feels very detailed.

 Based on your observations it seems to be recommended way to use better cables for this equipment. Currently I have a Volex 17604 mains cable and stock optical cable in use. Hopefully if I can convince my folks to somehow get me a glass optical that would be nice, but it doesn't seem possible now._

 

Good "Bang for Buck" Glass Toslink Cable? - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 This is a post I made in another thread about fiber optic cable. I took a fiber optics class last semester and this is, I think, a good overview of fiber optic cable. I made other replies as well after this one. In my technical opinion, I dont believe a glass/plastic or glass/glass fiber would make any difference in sound quality at all.


----------



## haloxt

Has anyone tried comparing a very bad source to a good one fed into the compass? I got the itch to let a dog chew up one of my optical cables just to see if I can finally hear a difference between my sources.


----------



## Shahrose

Excellent review Pricklely Peete. easily one of the most comprehensive and well written reviews i've read here.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks again to all for the kind words.

 The test CD rotation covers the bases from classical, progressive classic rock, alternative 80's indie, 90's middle eastern/irish folk (Dead can Dance can't really be nailed down to a single genre I find), to 21 st century Metal, and finally some smooth jazz.

 If you look up the album tittles that info comes to light but your right I should have included what genre. 

 Part III I can rectify that shortcoming. It's also in Part III where all the headphone results are contained.

 There is more to come. Quite a bit more.

 Peete._

 

Hi Peete, I just managed to go through the review in its entirety.

 You know I could write a bigger post than your review as to why I appreciate you review, but I wouldn’t do that, all I will say is that I have loads of Hifi mags stacked on my table, I am a freak for such mags and I have always enjoyed reading them and staying abreast with the latest technologies, but very seldom have I ever felt the urge of buying a piece of gear based on those reviews, but after reading your review, if I never had a Compass, I would surely go out and get one.

 So why would that be? is your review so well written and polished.. NO, on the contrary its raw, its so damn raw that I can see 2 very seasoned ears, a self confessed audio nut, a full time DIY junkie, who is head to toe drowned in audio, and who knows his stuffs, share his views about Compass – Man that’s not the most polished or the best written review I have read, but it’s the truth .. and that is what really matters..

 You have my respects..

 Thanks.


----------



## sennsay

And THAT is the difference between the 3 DACs, to me at least. I'd not want either of the other two without being able to audition them, or return them after a few days if they didn't suit my system. And they're sub-£200 products.

 Yet I'd give Kingwa 5x as much money without any return capabilities whatsoever. Why? Because he's small enough to care about his reputation. He puts out quality products with no consideration for marketing, magazine promotions, appeal to the internet/gaming generation. He puts out what is - time and time again - top-rate stuff for reasonable money.

 CA and MF - I just don't have the same confidence that I'll be getting something top-rate for my money. They're too big to care much for the people spending this level of money - so long as the product gets a half decent review in a big magazine, has aesthetic appeal to the masses, and can be purchased on consumers visiting the high street, then they've got their market.

 Different products, different markets. That's what it boils down to at the end of the day.

 Kingwa for president! 

 Apologies if I come across as a fanboy... I'm really not. But to me, there is no comparison between a hard-working small company who put our wants first, and secondly builds the said item before deciding on a price, and a larger company pushing products at a specific price-point, with little care for personal service and little motivation to produce the best possible product.

 Happy valentines day! 

 ~Phewl
 __________________

 Me too! Onya, Phewl, I'm with you on that one, my own dealings with him have been nothing less than exemplary and have I've ordered my own Compass a few days ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man


----------



## csroc

Curious to read the rest of your review Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Hey there PP, very well done on all the hard work, mate!! Although I've already ordered my Compass, I'm even more keen than ever to have it arrive in my home! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 By the sound of it, I don't need to to go to all the hard work of creating a FrankenDac, the Compass will give me virtually everything the FDac can and with a fine amp to boot. Oooo ... that's gotta be 'FI good! 
 Frankie (FrankenZero) is looking forward to having a brother in da house and does not feel in the least like second best - in anamorphalogical terms. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He is sounding so damn good with the 'Gated and PIO'd Plinius IIC with KHA II, that his position as Head-Fi DAC is sound; the Compass will go into place in the main system, for the most part.
 Looking forward to reading Pt III with KHA II in action. Hmm, KHA III may be the next upgrade soon, to get even more from the new DAC. What a stunning value pair _they_ make! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The S-Man grinneth.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Curious to read the rest of your review Peete._

 

And so it goes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Coming soon csroc........I'm going to take a couple days to recharge the batteries then go back at Part III. 


 Sandchak, et all, thank you.


 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And so it goes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Coming soon csroc........I'm going to take a couple days to recharge the batteries then go back at Part III. 


 Sandchak, et all, thank you.


 Peete._

 

Cheers, PP. I have Bowie belting into the Denon D1000s courtesy of Frankie/KHA II and Plinius IIC as I write, grinning in anticipation of what the addition of the Compass DAC may make to this already dynamite kit! I have someone sleeping nearby, hence no Senns at the moment. Bowie sounds simply brilliant through the gear, sparkle and punch without edge, so much fun! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cheers, PP. I have Bowie belting into the Denon D1000s courtesy of Frankie/KHA II and Plinius IIC as I write, grinning in anticipation of what the addition of the Compass DAC may make to this already dynamite kit! I have someone sleeping nearby, hence no Senns at the moment. Bowie sounds simply brilliant through the gear, sparkle and punch without edge, so much fun! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man_

 

Sounds good to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad you have the company !!!

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey there PP, very well done on all the hard work, mate!! Although I've already ordered my Compass, I'm even more keen than ever to have it arrive in my home! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 By the sound of it, I don't need to to go to all the hard work of creating a FrankenDac, the Compass will give me virtually everything the FDac can and with a fine amp to boot. Oooo ... that's gotta be 'FI good! 
 Frankie (FrankenZero) is looking forward to having a brother in da house and does not feel in the least like second best - in anamorphalogical terms. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He is sounding so damn good with the 'Gated and PIO'd Plinius IIC with KHA II, that his position as Head-Fi DAC is sound; the Compass will go into place in the main system, for the most part.
 Looking forward to reading Pt III with KHA II in action. Hmm, KHA III may be the next upgrade soon, to get even more from the new DAC. What a stunning value pair they make! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The S-Man grinneth._

 

Thanks Sennsay !!!,

 It's quite interesting to note the similarities of the Compass DAC to those of the FrankenZero, they are both pretty close in a lot of ways but I felt the edge went to the Compass in the all important bass and mid bass area. Frankie's 3D imaging and treble region are hard to beat and the Compass does come close....it's almost splitting hairs. Both are great DACs. 

 You'll be better placed to make the final determination on that front. The cool thing is having an alternative on hand in more or less in the same league, allows for a choice depending on mood for that day.

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
___________________

 Me too! Onya, Phewl, I'm with you on that one, my own dealings with him have been nothing less than exemplary and have I've ordered my own Compass a few days ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man_

 

I don't actually remember writing any of that. I had a few beers last night... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I do stand by it, though I may not have crafted something so defensive and with such a "shouty" approach to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Peete* - nice review, buddy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . But please don't hit return at the end of the lines, it makes it difficult to follow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 ~Phewl.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Sennsay !!!,

 It's quite interesting to note the similarities of the Compass DAC to those of the FrankenZero, they are both pretty close in a lot of ways but I felt the edge went to the Compass in the all important bass and mid bass area. Frankie's 3D imaging and treble region are hard to beat and the Compass does come close....it's almost splitting hairs. Both are great DACs. 

 You'll be better placed to make the final determination on that front. The cool thing is having an alternative on hand in more or less in the same league, allows for a choice depending on mood for that day.

 Peete._

 

 Yeah man, and having a much superior head amp on board adds lot's of icing to a wonderful cake! I don't use Frankie's at all, it's basically just a DAC/pre-amp in this line-up. It will mean I have an excellent amp on hand while KHA III evolves into life. The grin spreadeth, S-Man


----------



## haloxt

Do you guys think the compass can get damaged by inputting 192khz into the 96khz optical? I did that for a few minutes while I was trying to figure out connecting my sound card to the compass.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Doubtful, it'll just not be able to properly process the stream. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## cyberidd

Thanks for the great review PP, its got tons of great info and is fun to read. I, like so many others here on head-fi am already excited for Part III, but right now you've earned a break, have a KitKat!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't actually remember writing any of that. I had a few beers last night... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I do stand by it, though I may not have crafted something so defensive and with such a "shouty" approach to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Peete* - nice review, buddy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . But please don't hit return at the end of the lines, it makes it difficult to follow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 ~Phewl._

 

I need to fix the word wrap issues of course. Notepad messed it up as I swapped back and forth. I need to manually fix it up. I guess I'll do that now.

 Thanks for the comments AP !!!

 Peete


----------



## AudioPhewl

I wouldn't worry about it mate, it's still readable, just a bit of a niggle. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm pleased to see you thought the Zero fared well against the Compass. It really is a blinding little DAC, the modded Zero... just could have been so much more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

All fixed up AP....looks better now. I was too tired this morning to do it then. Agreed the Zero and the modded Zero are pretty darn good.

 Peete.


----------



## Chu

I'm curious if you have any insight to how the amp section might compare to DIY solutions? After I get my rebate I've been tempted to jump into the DIY arena (been slowly contemplating for years) and am wondering how something like a Compass in bypass mode + CK2III would sound like compared to a full Compass.

 i.e. how high up the food chain you need to go in the DIY world to beat it.

 (also adding to the "great article" feedback, will take a while to digest! Still achingly curious about the differences between the three discreet circuits though)


----------



## Joeoboe

Great review PP! I know it was a TON of work... When I wrote mine, I intentionally tried to keep it very simple.. and it took an incredible amount of time to compile and compose AFTER all the listening part was done... which took plenty of time on its own! With all the different parameters you were comparing, it is no wonder it took you so much time and effort... Bravo!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

AP I think some of why I used the main system for critical evaluation you can relate to. The STAX ribbons are second to none with midrange and treble reproduction in headphones and that also translates to large 2 channel systems as being the best way to judge accuracy and fidelity.

 Part of my motivation you might say is that I trust the presentation from electrostatic/planar magnetic/ribbons in these ranges far more than ANY dynamic driver. I know the Senns are great cans but they simply can't match planar/ribbon panels. IMO at least. I'm not saying there aren't great dynamic speakers out there.......just that I find nothing matches a ribbon to my ears.

 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All fixed up AP....looks better now. I was too tired this morning to do it then. Agreed the Zero and the modded Zero are pretty darn good.

 Peete._

 

DOH you fixed it like 5 minutes after I read it! Ha...

 Nice job Peete! Now tell my wallet to stop itching...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm curious if you have any insight to how the amp section might compare to DIY solutions? After I get my rebate I've been tempted to jump into the DIY arena (been slowly contemplating for years) and am wondering how something like a Compass in bypass mode + CK2III would sound like compared to a full Compass.

 i.e. how high up the food chain you need to go in the DIY world to beat it.

 (also adding to the "great article" feedback, will take a while to digest! Still achingly curious about the differences between the three discreet circuits though)_

 

I would have to say the Beta 22 would be the next BIG jump above the Compass...anything else under that will be variations of the same with minor differences. It's difficult to say for sure but in this range there isn't a lot to separate the various DIY and retail offerings. The Compass being as new as it is will have to rely on end user input as I can only compare what I have on hand.

 It's too early to say how it stacks up but my guess is it'll do well against many amps DIY or not in the 500US range roughly speaking. The Beta 22 is 3X times that cost with a basic build and chassis. 

 All IMO of course.

 The Beta22 is a daunting prospect as DIY project (even for me). One day I would like to try and build one but that day is a looooooooong way off.


 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Definitely good work so far!


----------



## shampoosuicide

I emailed Kingwa about the DAC-19 and he tells me that it has "one NBC and one RCA coaxial input, but only can connect one of them at same time."

 What is NBC??? How would I connect it to my iMac?


----------



## lag0a

He meant BNC like AES, Coaxial (rca), and Optical (toslink) for digital input I think. If your iMAC doesn't support BNC, you might need a different termination for that end.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lag0a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He meant BNC like AES, Coaxial (rca), and Optical (toslink) for digital input I think. If your iMAC doesn't support BNC, you might need a different termination for that end._

 

I do not believe there is an optical input. I might be mistaken, but I think the Compass is the only Audio-gd DAC that has an optical input.


----------



## Currawong

I've just been having a chat to PP about gain settings, voicing and other bits and pieces, and here's what we've come up with as to what the final version of the Compass should have:

*Gain:* 9db/15db
 The current settings are 13/19 which are quite high. 19 seems to be very high even with 300 Ohm headphones. 13 seems to us a bit low for the highest setting, especially if people want to (foolishly) blast their ears out with hi-impedance headphones, but is still quite high, so 15 seems to be a good balance. 
*Voicing:* Completely neutral. 
 At present the default has slightly rolled-off highs. Compared to the ST3 and C2C, the sound of the headamp in the compass is a little closed with some headphones because of the roll-off. Since the soft settings take care of people with very bright headphones, for the default it's best to have the sound completely neutral.

 What do people think?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just been having a chat to PP about gain settings, voicing and other bits and pieces, and here's what we've come up with as to what the final version of the Compass should have:

*Gain:* 9db/15db
 The current settings are 13/19 which are quite high. 19 seems to be very high even with 300 Ohm headphones. 13 seems to us a bit low for the highest setting, especially if people want to (foolishly) blast their ears out with hi-impedance headphones, but is still quite high, so 15 seems to be a good balance. 
*Voicing:* Completely neutral. 
 At present the default has slightly rolled-off highs. Compared to the ST3 and C2C, the sound of the headamp in the compass is a little closed with some headphones because of the roll-off. Since the soft settings take care of people with very bright headphones, for the default it's best to have the sound completely neutral.

 What do people think?_

 


 I'm for it (obviously).

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just been having a chat to PP about gain settings, voicing and other bits and pieces, and here's what we've come up with as to what the final version of the Compass should have:

*Gain:* 9db/15db
 The current settings are 13/19 which are quite high. 19 seems to be very high even with 300 Ohm headphones. 13 seems to us a bit low for the highest setting, especially if people want to (foolishly) blast their ears out with hi-impedance headphones, but is still quite high, so 15 seems to be a good balance. 
*Voicing:* Completely neutral. 
 At present the default has slightly rolled-off highs. Compared to the ST3 and C2C, the sound of the headamp in the compass is a little closed with some headphones because of the roll-off. Since the soft settings take care of people with very bright headphones, for the default it's best to have the sound completely neutral.

 What do people think?_

 

I'm 100% for both of those changes.

 9/15dB sounds great and I want the neutral setting to be completely neutral.


----------



## tongson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just been having a chat to PP about gain settings, voicing and other bits and pieces, and here's what we've come up with as to what the final version of the Compass should have:
 ...
 What do people think?_

 

+1


----------



## Chu

Quick question about the update posted on their site:

  Quote:


 Thanks all peoples give me advice of those buttoms.
 Basing on Carl's web survey, I think put the Bypass on the front panel, the other functions on the rear. But we can make by customers special order of front button free, only need an extra week. 
 

Can someone translate that to english a little better? I'm very confused about what he's actually trying to say.


----------



## Joeoboe

My only question is that based on what Kingwa said on the Compass page, he believes the neutral setting to already be neutral:
 "_But I personally hold the opinion that "Neutral" mode sound should not be changed. Because the "Neutral" sound is our high-grade products character. I know at this price, it is difficult to find a gear that has a "Neutral" sound, most gears have warm or tube-like or other sound color. Maybe some users can't expect or can't accept "Neutral" sound at this price.
 For me, "Neutral" means least coloration of source signal, amp output is very important, it follows the source signal, and it can reveal the source, its recording defects or excellence._"
 Also, can these changes be made at this point? It seemed as though all the decisions were locked in already except for minor stuff that does not require any redesign of the circuit.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question about the update posted on their site:



 Can someone translate that to english a little better? I'm very confused about what he's actually trying to say._

 

There will be 2 switches on the back panel controlling gain and preamp mode.
 The front button will control the bypass function by default, but for no charge, you can have it switch gain OR switch preamp mode.


----------



## Currawong

The sound of the HP amp in the Compass is a little darker than that of the ST3 or C2C. I believe that this is because of something I said to Kingwa about the C2C. It's a confusing issue, because the ST3 and C2C have a bit of a boosted bass and I thought that the C2C had a boosted treble, but Kingwa said it doesn't. The problem turned out to be with my headphones, specifically my Denons, which, after modification, can end up sounding a bit bright and sibilant. There was a lot of discussion at the beginning about headphones, because Kingwa only had HD650s, so I suggested he buy Grados and K701s so he could get an idea what other people would hear. 

 I think the ultimate upshot of this is that the Compass was designed with a slightly rolled-off treble as a result of my comments. There is one huge problem here: All the hi-fi gear I could use to check this for sure is back in Australia, and the only other amp I owned, the Little Dot MKV, I've now sold, so I have no means to properly compare or test. About the only thing I could do is set up Rightmark Audio Analyser and do tests, but if Kingwa says that something is absolutely neutral, then I don't see any reason to doubt that.

 If this confuses anyone, I don't blame you, I'm confused as well!

 Anyway, I'm off to compare it to the Benchmark DAC1.


----------



## Sganzerla

What do you mean by "slightly rolled-off highs"? Can someone elaborate?
 (Then I'll give you my opinion)


----------



## cyberidd

So does anyone have any modding plans for the Compass? If it is as good as it appears to be, I can only imagine how it would sound once modded.


----------



## doping panda

Great review, Peete! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm even more excited about getting one than I was before.


----------



## dBs

I like the sound of the collaborated modification proposal.


----------



## Tyson

Peete, if you like the Compass, you really should check out the CAST gear they offer. I'll stick by my assertion of 400 hours breakin for the preamp and dac, but the C1 took much, much longer. In fact if you check my sig, you can see that I moved the C1 to drive the bass woofers on my VMPS speakers for the past several months. I'd put them there because I liked the VTL amps a bit better for the mids/highs. 

 On a lark I recently moved the C1 back to running the mids, and I like it better than the VTL's, which is pretty shocking. Just as smooth and real sounding as the tube gear, but with better focus and overall tidier presentation. You hear everything, but you hear it in a pleasant, musical fashion.


----------



## HammerSandwich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Gain:* 9db/15db
*Voicing:* Completely neutral.

 What do people think?_

 

Good here.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'd love to hear it no doubt with your excellent ref system Tyson.

 It has piqued my curiosity, even more so having experienced the trickle down topology benefit the Compass clearly enjoys some of the fruits of from it's bigger brother.

 Amazing revelation that the C1 has surpassed the VTL's...wow...

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm for it (obviously).

 Peete._

 


 Ok, I'm in! S-Man


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great review, Peete! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm even more excited about getting one than I was before._

 

Thanks !!!!

 Peete.

 PS I'm off to bed.....I sent off a proposal to Kingwa about sacrafising one of the current soft modes for a bright setting and leaving the current neutral setting as is. I thought soft 3 would be the obvious choice for this switch.


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1000 bucks I feel is a lot of money to start this hobby - atleast I consider myself fotunate to have compass for the price of 258 + ship, to me its a steal really.. I have learnt something from my past experiance and I'll share that with you, if I have a budget of USD500 for some particular equipment, and I find one for USD250 which is really good and suits my need, I wont be stuck on the 500 budget and keep looking for something that costs that much.. I would rather spend the savings on something else or just keep it aside..
 So, if you have a decent source or a PC which you would use, I suggest keep your savings as of now and as time progresses, you can think about upgrading, in this way you will also feel the difference as you upgrade.. its like you grow with the system..

 just my opinions and the way I would approach things.._

 


 Hey there sandchak, I wanted to thank you for the sound advice. Thanks for reminding me to stay patient and keep both my feet planted firmly on the ground. I appreciate the advice, which I plan on following. Cheers man. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To Peete, dude that review of yours was mind blowing. It was really cool to read about the music you used. I'm a music junkie and had most of everything you used in either cd or vinyl. For you to use Dream Theater with one of my top 5 drummer influences "Mike Portnoy" was too awesome (I've been a drummer for over 25 years), by the way they would be considered Prog Metal, though genres can be subjective especially when it comes to metal. Not to mention somebody else that owns Dead Can Dance is quite rare. Some of the most intense and unique music I've ever heard. I doesn't have a "genre" I don't think.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, for your review coming from a beginners point of view to this type of equipment was very intriguing and also very humbling. I thought I knew a little bit about home audio, which I do, however you put into perspective on how little I really know. This is very exciting to me as I tend to Master and move on to the next hobby all too often withing a few years. You put this in perspective that this can be a life long hobby if you choose. Something I would love to do. I would love to have a neighbor like yourself and be able to pick your brain, even if it was for one evening. 

 Anyway, that is by far one of the best reviews I've ever read even if I only understood some of it (at least when it came to your equipment). It feels as though I came into this hobby at a perfect time in my life and your review got me very excited in many different ways. Can't wait to read it again! Cheers man.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just been having a chat to PP about gain settings, voicing and other bits and pieces, and here's what we've come up with as to what the final version of the Compass should have:

*Gain:* 9db/15db
 The current settings are 13/19 which are quite high. 19 seems to be very high even with 300 Ohm headphones. 13 seems to us a bit low for the highest setting, especially if people want to (foolishly) blast their ears out with hi-impedance headphones, but is still quite high, so 15 seems to be a good balance. 
*Voicing:* Completely neutral. 
 At present the default has slightly rolled-off highs. Compared to the ST3 and C2C, the sound of the headamp in the compass is a little closed with some headphones because of the roll-off. Since the soft settings take care of people with very bright headphones, for the default it's best to have the sound completely neutral.

 What do people think?_

 

Although I haven't clearly experienced the rolled-off highs myself, I think both these solutions are excellent. Complete agreement here.
 I guess we can leave to Kingwa to do the final labeling. If a brighter setting than the 'neutral' it has now, is not 'neutral' anymore to him, he can always call that 'bright-1'. Just so long as the options are there.

 (EDIT: Oh wait, the suggestion was already sent off. Hmmm, different time-zones here Peete.)


----------



## csroc

I can't really verify whether the highs are significantly rolled off in the neutral setting or not. From how Kingwa talked to me it sounds like some of those things are easily tweakable but I'm not sure.

 Has anyone contacted him regarding the current desire for 9/15dB gains and the absolutely neutral neutral mode? I would myself but I'm not sure if it hasn't already happened. If you're reading this and interested I encourage you to email Kingwa and let us know you did so.


----------



## bjorn

Thank you Pete for your fantastic review!

 One small suggestion; two of the images in the review has ended up on the same row and that affects the text formatting in a bad way (the text rows will get the same width as that row). If you simply put the second image on a new row it would fix it.


----------



## decayed.cell

I'd got as far as saying it was mind blasting Serpent. I asked if we could get Ear Out removed from the front panel, waiting for a reply. Getting the font changed also seems to be costly according to Kingwa


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question about the update posted on their site:

 "Thanks all peoples give me advice of those buttoms.
 Basing on Carl's web survey, I think put the Bypass on the front panel, the other functions on the rear. But we can make by customers special order of front button free, only need an extra week."

 Can someone translate that to english a little better? I'm very confused about what he's actually trying to say._

 


 I think its been corrected now, but what he means is that going by the polls conducted here, he will keep the bypass (super) switch on the front panel, but if someone wishes to have the preamp or gain switch on the front panel and not the bypass switch, he will do that free of cost, but it will take him an extra week to process the order..


----------



## csroc

The Compass page isn't loading for me, anyone else having the same problem? Perhaps they're updating it.


----------



## sandchak

strictly off the topic : I hang around sometimes in Kingwa's Chinese forum and I must say they have one particular very good caricature artist.. so it was nice to see a Chinese caricature of Peete after his review came out..







 interesting .. wonder if it has any resemblance to Peete...


----------



## winzzz

guys what do u think compass pair with grado cans ? which one better for compass high or low impedance cans ?


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *winzzz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys what do u think compass pair with grado cans ? which one better for compass high or low impedance cans ?_

 

It has different gain modes for both low impedance and high impedance phones. It should do fine with Grados I would think on account. The sound has been tailored to be neutral so I would think that would be a fair match sonically as well.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *winzzz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys what do u think compass pair with grado cans ? which one better for compass high or low impedance cans ?_

 

Hard to say. In my personal (and limited) experience I feel that low-impedance headphones (say, under 100ohm) sound somewhat 'overcontrolled' from powerful SS amplifiers like the Compass. But that may be a personal thing.

 However it may be, after the impedance changes the final version of the Compass will drive both lower and higher impedance cans fine.


----------



## Currawong

Ok, I spent a couple of hours at a friend's place comparing the Compass to the Benchmark DAC1 as promised. To compare, we used his electrostatic headphone set-up, which alone is probably worth more than all the other electronics we were using put together.

 MacBook Pro -> Van Den Hul Optocoupler ->
 Compass or DAC 1 ->
 Van Den Hul The Orchid interconnects -> Stax SRM-717 -> SR-007
 Audio-gd power cables were used with the Benchmark and SRM-717.

 The first impression of the set up with the Benchmark is how clear and detailed the sound is with it. With electrostats, there _are_ no questions about clarity, separation or speed, these things are a given, so it's all up to the source to provide the goods. 

 We listened to some tracks from a binaural Stax demo disk, Chesky demo disk and various tracks from our music libraries.

 What was apparent switching to the Compass (with Earth HDAM) was the very black background around the music, as if the sound were floating in a black space. However the music was filling a smaller portion of that space than with the the very open and wide sound that came using the Benchmark, instruments and vocals seeming less spread out and separate. Switching between the Sun and Earth (I'd forgotten to bring the Moon) it was apparent how the Sun has slightly less bass and treble, giving it a more forward and smooth presentation that emphasises the mids.

 While it's hard to describe the degree of difference between the two units, if we rate an iPod at 5 and my Northstar at 100, the Nakamichi Dragon DAC gets 120, the Lavry DA-10 and Benchmark DAC 1 come in at 95, the Zero DAC (stock) would be about 60 and the Compass would be an 80.

 This is a good example of the law of diminishing returns. I'd say I was quite right that to get a significant upgrade from the Compass, you'd need to spend somewhere around the $1000 mark, which is what the Benchmark and Lavry cost. There are still quite a few DACs which fall in between, however. Audio-gd's Ref 3 DAC at under $800 will predicably beat it too, not to mention their other DACs that use a multi-bit DA processor.


----------



## Joeoboe

Regarding using two lower gain settings, I had suggested this in my review with another possible benefit. Kingwa had said he was going to put in a relay that would swich to lower gain whenever you hit the preamp mode. I was hoping with 2 lower gain structures, we could avoid the relay altogether. Has anyone asked Kingwa about this? I suspect we are a bit late for these suggestions since he was intending on shipping in another 1-2 weeks!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While it's hard to describe the degree of difference between the two units, if we rate an iPod at 5 and my Northstar at 100, the Nakamichi Dragon DAC gets 120, the Lavry DA-10 and Benchmark DAC 1 come in at 95, the Zero DAC (stock) would be about 60 and the Compass would be an 80.

 This is a good example of the law of diminishing returns. I'd say I was quite right that to get a significant upgrade from the Compass, you'd need to spend somewhere around the $1000 mark, which is what the Benchmark and Lavry cost. There are still quite a few DACs which fall in between, however. Audio-gd's Ref 3 DAC at under $800 will predicably beat it too, not to mention their other DACs that use a multi-bit DA processor._

 

Hey Curra, those comparisons really say a lot about Compass, taking into account the rule of diminishing returns. Compass may not be a giant killer, but sure gives them a good run for the money. Thanks for the compare, it sure feels good to have one sitting beside me..


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_strictly off the topic : I hang around sometimes in Kingwa's Chinese forum and I must say they have one particular very good caricature artist.. so it was nice to see a Chinese caricature of Peete after his review came out..






 interesting .. wonder if it has any resemblance to Peete..._

 

Well the chinese is like Australian friend's review... Peete's not aussie is he lol


----------



## Crikey

Hm,
 Either he seems to have mixed people up, but I think he's referring to Currawong. Because it says "The Review from our Australian friend" (switched and edited to accomodate english grammar). But the pics he draws are just awesome. I've also seen several where King wa is drawn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_strictly off the topic : I hang around sometimes in Kingwa's Chinese forum and I must say they have one particular very good caricature artist.. so it was nice to see a Chinese caricature of Peete after his review came out..






 interesting .. wonder if it has any resemblance to Peete..._

 

EDIT: Shoot! decayed.cell beat me to it


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the chinese is like Australian friend's review... Peete's not aussie is he lol_

 

Well, then it might be Curra.. hoorah!!


----------



## Currawong

Weird, very weird. Now I wish I could read Chinese. I might have to try running some of it through Google. What's the url for the forum post with that pic?

 Edit: I had a look through the forums using Google. Very interesting.


----------



## sandchak

Here curra, the link is : Translated version of http://bbs.audio-gd.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=2&id=21082&page=1&star=4

 and the post starts off as " Compass Assessment Abroad" (Google translated)


----------



## Crikey

Here ys go Curra:
Compass¹úÍâ²âÆÀ[ºÎÇì»ªDIY¼¼ÊõÂÛÌ³]

 EDIT: Why is everyone replying the same thing before me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 EDIT2: Mine's the untranslated version.


----------



## Drosera

Interesting to see all our impressions reposted there. We are truly writing our reviews for the world. (Still, no pressure eh...)


----------



## Currawong

Ahh, I just found myself quoted about the ST3. I had another listen to it today, now that I am back to listening and reviewing. What happened when I posted my comment was that I had plugged in my Denons to the ST3, which seem to have a bit of bass boost as well. This made them sound boomy, which wasn't so great. Plugging in HD-600s, the ST3 sounds better, because of the slightly stronger bass and treble. I haven't tested for detail yet. For that I'll put it between my Northstar and Stax.

 I'm thinking actually, of building an M^3 for myself to compare things with, as I don't have a proper benchmark to compare against, except other Audio-gd gear at the moment (or a Corda Move, which will naturally be bested by all this gear).


----------



## D.C.

Peete thanks man great review. You should change your avatar to the Chinese picture lol. Curra thank you for the DAC1 impressions. 
 Guys please correct me if I am wrong but aren't the C2C and the Compass case the same as in: 
 Dimensions: width 250mm, height 75mm and depth 290mm. Peete wrote 255 for depth is that the actual size or a typo.


----------



## sandchak

Actually the size of the new version of C2C is the same as Compass, but the older version C2C might have been different.. the new version C2C and Compass both measure :width 250mm, height 75mm and depth 290mm.


 EDIT - I misread your question earlier, sorry.


----------



## godluvsxs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I spent a couple of hours at a friend's place comparing the Compass to the Benchmark DAC1 as promised. To compare, we used his electrostatic headphone set-up, which alone is probably worth more than all the other electronics we were using put together.

 MacBook Pro -> Van Den Hul Optocoupler ->
 Compass or DAC 1 ->
 Van Den Hul The Orchid interconnects -> Stax SRM-717 -> SR-007
 Audio-gd power cables were used with the Benchmark and SRM-717.

 The first impression of the set up with the Benchmark is how clear and detailed the sound is with it. With electrostats, there are no questions about clarity, separation or speed, these things are a given, so it's all up to the source to provide the goods. 

 We listened to some tracks from a binaural Stax demo disk, Chesky demo disk and various tracks from our music libraries.

 What was apparent switching to the Compass (with Earth HDAM) was the very black background around the music, as if the sound were floating in a black space. However the music was filling a smaller portion of that space than with the the very open and wide sound that came using the Benchmark, instruments and vocals seeming less spread out and separate. Switching between the Sun and Earth (I'd forgotten to bring the Moon) it was apparent how the Sun has slightly less bass and treble, giving it a more forward and smooth presentation that emphasises the mids.

 While it's hard to describe the degree of difference between the two units, if we rate an iPod at 5 and my Northstar at 100, the Nakamichi Dragon DAC gets 120, the Lavry DA-10 and Benchmark DAC 1 come in at 95, the Zero DAC (stock) would be about 60 and the Compass would be an 80.

 This is a good example of the law of diminishing returns. I'd say I was quite right that to get a significant upgrade from the Compass, you'd need to spend somewhere around the $1000 mark, which is what the Benchmark and Lavry cost. There are still quite a few DACs which fall in between, however. Audio-gd's Ref 3 DAC at under $800 will predicably beat it too, not to mention their other DACs that use a multi-bit DA processor._

 

Hi Curra, Thanks for the impression! Really appreciate it, during the process COMPASS using it's stock cable while Benchmark equipped with Audio-gd power cables ?


----------



## 8140david

Are there any definite plans from Audio-gd to develop higher ends Dacs than the Compass while having *usb input* and (unbalanced) *rca output*?


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *godluvsxs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Curra, Thanks for the impression! Really appreciate it, during the process COMPASS using it's stock cable while Benchmark equipped with Audio-gd power cables ?_

 

Speaking of which, do you guys know if the audio-gd power cable is emi-rfi shielded?


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are there any definite plans from Audio-gd to develop higher ends Dacs than the Compass while having *usb input* and (unbalanced) *rca output*?_

 

It doesn't SEEM to be that way... nor does Kingwa include optical inputs on his higher end DACs. I can see why, being as USB and optical are generally though of as being lower quality, but my source only has optical out, so I am limited by his present options.


----------



## RedSky0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I spent a couple of hours at a friend's place comparing the Compass to the Benchmark DAC1 as promised. To compare, we used his electrostatic headphone set-up, which alone is probably worth more than all the other electronics we were using put together.

 MacBook Pro -> Van Den Hul Optocoupler ->
 Compass or DAC 1 ->
 Van Den Hul The Orchid interconnects -> Stax SRM-717 -> SR-007
 Audio-gd power cables were used with the Benchmark and SRM-717.

 The first impression of the set up with the Benchmark is how clear and detailed the sound is with it. With electrostats, there are no questions about clarity, separation or speed, these things are a given, so it's all up to the source to provide the goods. 

 We listened to some tracks from a binaural Stax demo disk, Chesky demo disk and various tracks from our music libraries.

 What was apparent switching to the Compass (with Earth HDAM) was the very black background around the music, as if the sound were floating in a black space. However the music was filling a smaller portion of that space than with the the very open and wide sound that came using the Benchmark, instruments and vocals seeming less spread out and separate. *Switching between the Sun and Earth (I'd forgotten to bring the Moon) it was apparent how the Sun has slightly less bass and treble, giving it a more forward and smooth presentation that emphasises the mids.*

 While it's hard to describe the degree of difference between the two units, if we rate an iPod at 5 and my Northstar at 100, the Nakamichi Dragon DAC gets 120, the Lavry DA-10 and Benchmark DAC 1 come in at 95, the Zero DAC (stock) would be about 60 and the Compass would be an 80.

 This is a good example of the law of diminishing returns. I'd say I was quite right that to get a significant upgrade from the Compass, you'd need to spend somewhere around the $1000 mark, which is what the Benchmark and Lavry cost. There are still quite a few DACs which fall in between, however. Audio-gd's Ref 3 DAC at under $800 will predicably beat it too, not to mention their other DACs that use a multi-bit DA processor._

 

This is interesting. My understanding reading previous impressions was that the Sun was more forward, and had more notable highs/lows, particularly with more deep bass as opposed to the more uniform, neutral Earth.


----------



## AustinIsWierd

In my first attempt at entering the mid-fi headphone world, I got some ATH-AD700's and the Nuforce Icon Mobile. Would I gain enough to "upgrade" to the Compass? The last time I tried to upgrade my DAC, I found a PCM1702 based DAC (BB reference board) with 4 paralleled per channel. Added a L-Audio I/V and added . For the life of me, I couldn't tell a difference between this DAC and the standard output from a mid level Denon CD player or a Planet CD. Perhaps, I lack the golden ear.

 I did hear differences in various amps (tube vs SS)...

 Thanks...


----------



## ScottieB

Hey everyone.

 Thanks to all for the write-ups and impressions. Really impressive work (and jealousy-inducing gear!!!)

 I think it is pretty clear that the compass is a pretty nice upgrade to the Zero, especially with the current price and for someone new to the game. What isn't as clear to me just yet (and no doubt Peete's follow-up will shed some more light) is what the value is to someone who already has a Zero - or maybe even a modded Zero. Is it a significant enough step up to justify the upgrade? Like as big a step up that the Zero (with HDAM) was from my sound card's DAC? (keeping in mind I don't really use the headamp) How about owning the Zero and doing a Franken mod vs a Compass? How big a step up are we talking (speaking of sound quality - I'm aware of the build quality differences) from Zero and/or Franken Zero to the Compass? 

 For someone with serious upgrade-itis but a somewhat limited budget (and ignoring intangibles like screwing up the upgrade process and the fun of modding) would the FrankenZero or a Compass be the more sound investment? (I know this is highly subjective, just looking for impressions!)

 A big part of me is just saying "save up, get the compass, THEN fiddle with the Zero" since it sound like THAT big of a steal - and the way it came to be is so cool! But assuming that can't happen (fear of wife's wrath) what would YOU do?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd got as far as saying it was mind blasting Serpent. I asked if we could get Ear Out removed from the front panel, waiting for a reply. Getting the font changed also seems to be costly according to Kingwa_

 

There's no way to make everyone happy with the Font. For instance, I think the Font looks great. The fact that we are even discussing it says a lot about the project. In the end, it is Kingwa's product also. He apparently liked the Font. The Hard-on about the font mystifies me. But you are not the only one to mention it, just seems trivial to me.


 .


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's no way to make everyone happy with the Font. For instance, I think the Font looks great. The fact that we are even discussing it says a lot about the project. In the end, it is Kingwa's product also. He apparently liked the Font. The Hard-on about the font mystifies me. But you are not the only one to mention it, just seems trivial to me.


 ._

 

Agreed I think - I'm not someone who cares all that much what my gears looks like (it's all about the sound) especially at this price point... tradeoffs are bound to be made, and this one seems like a small one to me... You know what they say about opinions, though


----------



## csroc

I like the font as well, but not everyone will appreciate its slightly different look.


----------



## inF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking actually, of building an M^3 for myself to compare things with, as I don't have a proper benchmark to compare against, except other Audio-gd gear at the moment (or a Corda Move, which will naturally be bested by all this gear)._

 

I have also a Corda 2Move and much interested in your comparison with Compass, especially using HD 600's. Also a M^3 comparison would be awesome! When do you think you'll be able to do that, at least with the Move?


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Additional post script to the gain switch....that 19db is absolutely needed if you plan on using a Vinyl front end into the analog input. Even with the tube phono stage I had to increase the volume way past what I normally would for the MC-7R. I think the current settings are the best compromise and should leave them well enough alone.


 Peete._

 

I see that you felt we needed the 19db of gain setting, but recently lowered it to 15 ( which is just above the 13db of the lower gain setting we now have). Do you feel that an additional preamp would then be needed to use the Compass with a vinyl front end? I have lent out my vinyl set up to my brother so I cannot test it myself.


----------



## scootermafia

I would agree that the font should look as "western" as possible - more like an Apple product, less like something nameless and Chinese.


----------



## ScottieB

Peronally I think the LAST thing we need is more stuff that looks like Apple products.

 And I mean no offense, but I think it's a bit odd to ask someone in China, making this out of love, to cater to our "western" sensibilities - especially since we aren't the only ones who will buying it.

 This, of course, comes from someone who cares very very little about what my gear looks like - especially small things like fonts. This is, of course, not to say that anyone else's opinion is any less valid than mine


----------



## haloxt

Can we try to be polite and not give the word "Chinese" bad connotations?


----------



## sandchak

Well after all the hardwork of Kingwa, Curra and Peete, and off course all of us, we are back to fonts of Compass..

 Maybe someone could write a little review on the Fonts?..


----------



## csroc

I agree, don't change the font! Kingwa tells me he expects to have new panels late March probably so there won't be a font change any time soon regardless.

 Also... OK one more poll to get the general flavor on the gain issue
Gain poll

 Kingwa says changing the gain is easy but we have been talking and I would still hope he can meet the end of Feb ship date so we will have to cut off new suggestions shortly I believe.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Voicing:* Completely neutral. 
 At present the default has slightly rolled-off highs. Compared to the ST3 and C2C, the sound of the headamp in the compass is a little closed with some headphones because of the roll-off._

 

I was wondering if you have done a comparison on the Compass DAC/AMP vs the Compass DAC with the C2C? This would isolate the "slightly rolled off highs" to the headphone section of the Compass... and would allow poeple who felt they wanted to upgrade the Compass sound to add a C2C. 
 When you compared the Benchmark DAC1 with the Compass, did you isolate either DAC section and evaluate that seperatley , or was it just unit vs unit?


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree, don't change the font! Kingwa tells me he expects to have new panels late March probably so there won't be a font change any time soon regardless._

 

This probably also means the word Super will still appear on the panels until then... which I have actually come to like... and it allows Kingwa the flexibility to wire it as a preamp switch or gain switch on a custom basis without having the label be wrong!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa says changing the gain is easy but we have been talking and I would still hope he can meet the end of Feb ship date so we will have to cut off new suggestions shortly I believe._

 

Any word from Kingwa on the relay with the gain? ( I have become relay-phobic!)


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This probably also means the word Super will still appear on the panels until then... which I have actually come to like... and it allows Kingwa the flexibility to wire it as a preamp switch or gain switch on a custom basis without having the label be wrong!_

 

Agreed, I even mentioned that in the email I liked the Super. It's amusing to me but I've become quite fond of it.

  Quote:


 Any word from Kingwa on the relay with the gain? ( I have become relay-phobic!) 
 

Haven't asked but it sounds like there will be no relay.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of which, do you guys know if the audio-gd power cable is emi-rfi shielded?_

 

According to Kingwa it is not shielded.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedSky0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is interesting. My understanding reading previous impressions was that the Sun was more forward, and had more notable highs/lows, particularly with more deep bass as opposed to the more uniform, neutral Earth._

 

That set me back also. Wasn't what I thought the Sun was about.

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peronally I think the LAST thing we need is more stuff that looks like Apple products._

 

Well, at least it's not white! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (If only AKG could have resisted this trend as well.)

 I'm completely happy with the big lettering, the font, "Ear Out" and "Super". It's all part of the Compass-charm.

 Then again, I might be getting sentimental with this thing...


----------



## haloxt

In the tester's group board Curra gave an explanation.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/group....iscussionid=20

 Do you guys think I should go crazy with aluminum foil on the custom power cord? Only have one so won't be able to a/b easily once I mummify it.


----------



## 8140david

Are there any plans from Audio-gd to develop higher ends Dacs than the Compass while having *usb input* and (unbalanced) *rca output*?


----------



## haloxt

You should probably ask Kingwa that by email.


----------



## scootermafia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can we try to be polite and not give the word "Chinese" bad connotations?_

 

I am referring to Chinese as the sort of generic font that their machines print onto stuff. 

Welcome to Audiophilechina

 Something along these lines - the font is just unappealing and looks rough and utilitarian.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AP I think some of why I used the main system for critical evaluation you can relate to. The STAX ribbons are second to none with midrange and treble reproduction in headphones and that also translates to large 2 channel systems as being the best way to judge accuracy and fidelity.

 Part of my motivation you might say is that I trust the presentation from electrostatic/planar magnetic/ribbons in these ranges far more than ANY dynamic driver. I know the Senns are great cans but they simply can't match planar/ribbon panels. IMO at least. I'm not saying there aren't great dynamic speakers out there.......just that I find nothing matches a ribbon to my ears.

 Peete._

 

They do come across as very natural, polite and precise, and the detail portrayed can be immense. For critical listening, they really do take things to a different level.

 But... for casual, enjoyable listening, I do quite lack the humpy bass of electromagnets. I do prefer the bass of the Stax stuff - it's discrete, but superbly clean. But for just sitting down with a bit of pop/rock for enjoyment, a decent set of magnets can be more readily enjoyable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So does anyone have any modding plans for the Compass? If it is as good as it appears to be, I can only imagine how it would sound once modded._

 

What to mod, though? It's well designed, with great components... it just won't tweak like the Zero did...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would agree that the font should look as "western" as possible - more like an Apple product, less like something nameless and Chinese._

 

I disagree as I believe Apple and Steve Jobs to be the douchebags of this century. No other person and company exemplifies today's culture of creating garbage and selling them for exorbitant prices. And then flooding the movies, t.v and media so that no-self esteem losers will buy it cause they say blah blah uses it...

 So yeah, I am against the idea of a quality product, that you get more for the money you pay look like a product where you pay 4X more than its worth for some stupid cute font...


----------



## HammerSandwich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So yeah, I am against the idea of a quality product, that you get more for the money you pay look like a product where you pay 4X more than its worth for some stupid cute font..._

 

What?

 In any event, I'm okay with the current font.


----------



## csroc

I think I know what he wanted to say but I'm not sure it came across the right way.


----------



## techfreakazoid

The Compass dimensions are listed as: width 250mm, height 75mm and depth 290mm.

 Can someone post an underneath shot of the Compass' feet or shock absorbers? With the feet of the Compass recessed, what are the actual footprint dimensions (width x depth in mm) that the unit needs to stand on?

 As for the desktop surface area, I'm considering placing the Compass' rear panel against the wall. The uncabled depth of the unit is 29 cm, however, I will be using all the rear inputs. Factoring in the tightest bend of a cabled Compass, how much more depth (in mm) is required on the desk for using:

 a) *Stock cable package*--power, optical, USB, coaxial, RCA analog? From Peete's pictures, it looks like the USB or coaxial cable protrudes the most.

 b) *Upgrade cable options*--exclusive power, Canare coaxial? mbd2884 mentioned the exclusive power cable as:


> _They are stiff, yeah this power cord does not like to bend. Its about 2.5 times the width of the default cord that comes with the Compass. The power plug, going into the power source, again its 2.5 times the size of the normal plug. The plug going into the Compass, now its a little over 3 times the size. Its ridiculous._


The Canare coaxial cable does not appear to have a flexible connector. Are they RG-59 (22AWG) or RG-6 (18AWG)? What model are these cables--Canare Corp. - Quality Cables and Connectors: Cable?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I disagree as I believe Apple and Steve Jobs to be the douchebags of this century. No other person and company exemplifies today's culture of creating garbage and selling them for exorbitant prices. And then flooding the movies, t.v and media so that no-self esteem losers will buy it cause they say blah blah uses it...

 So yeah, I am against the idea of a quality product, that you get more for the money you pay look like a product where you pay 4X more than its worth for some stupid cute font..._

 

You seem to have a penchant for BLATHERING on about things you know nothing about. And you do it so loudly.

 Let me explain something to you. Have you heard of Linux, UNIX, SUN Solaris, Debian, Slackware, etc. I'm talking UNIX and it's variants here?

 Linus Torvalds brought UNIX to the Public through Linux. But he couldn't bring it to the masses. The masses need something that works 100% through a Mouse Interface, with a secretary running the mouse. Linux, try as it did, could come nowhere near this feat.

 SUN and SGI didn't care, they were elite and figured if you didn't have a SysAdmin you didn't need to use their systems.

 Enter Apple Circa 1999 with OS X 10.0. Well it was a Server platform and not ready as a desktop, but the world was warned, get ready here it comes. Steve Jobs was going to make everyone use UNIX and they would like it. The Geek community was muddling along with Linux, which was easier than it had ever been to use, but not "secretary ready".

 Around OS X 10.3 Apple had made the transition smoothly and now in it's current form, I just have to shake my head and say Steve and Apple did it. Not only did they convert Apple OS to UNIX, but they are gaining Market Share, and secretaries and school teachers love it. All those Apple non techies were converted, I don't know anybody who thought this was possible in 1999, if you dealt with "Apple People" on a regular basis.

 Apple has a superior platform on superior hardware. They have the advantage of the fact that their OS only has to work with their hardware, this is a significant advantage.

 The only disadvantage Apple has as a Platform is that software is written for Windows first because that is where the Market share is. Apple get's it second if at all. As their market share increases this will change. I don't care what operating system you like, you should love Apple. 

 Apple helps keep MS honest. Competition is a good thing. 

 I'm not sure why you have an Axe to grind with Apple and what they did to you. But I think it has to do with the fact that you are not smart enough to figure how to get LINUX ON YOUR FRACKIN' IPOD!

 Nuff said, ignorance makes me irritable...

 .


----------



## mbd2884

LAWL!!! Dude anyone can use Wikipedia. You really think I didn't know that little splurge you splattered? Steve Jobs is still The Biggest ****** in the Universe. You wrote nothing I didn't know, every Mac Addict uses that same arguement over and over, if any argument used to beat a dead horse and yet still no one cares. And I truly hate Apple for everything they represent. I believe if anyone can a representative of Satan, its Steve Jobs. I'd rather give George W. Bush a hug before I ever shake the devil's hands.

 But to my point I most definitely do not think the Compass should come to anything that would resemble Steve Jobs affinity for selling garbage for huge dollars...cause its pretty.


----------



## ScottieB

The compass has nothing to do with Unix, Apple, OS X, Microsoft or any of it. All this will do is derail the topic. Let's try to refrain from bashing each others' choice of computer.

 I think the point here is that some people value form over function, some value function over form, and some value them equally. Thing is, form and function both usually come at a cost. The question is, in this instance, is that cost worth it? I vote no - as I usually do. It has nothing to do with my choice of operating system.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LAWL!!! Dude anyone can use Wikipedia. You really think I didn't know that little splurge you splattered? Steve Jobs is still The Biggest ****** in the Universe. You wrote nothing I didn't know, every Mac Addict uses that same arguement over and over, if any argument used to beat a dead horse and yet still no one cares.

 And I most definitely do not think the Compass should come to anything that would resemble Steve Jobs affinity for selling garbage for huge dollars...cause its pretty._

 

Ahhh, I don't use Apple...

 .


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apple has a superior platform on superior hardware. They have the advantage of the fact that their OS only has to work with their hardware, this is a significant advantage.

 .....


 Nuff said, ignorance makes me irritable..._

 

Ahem, well on that note you're making me irritable.

 Regardless, you do have a point that the limited hardware selection makes their job much easier.

 Of course that has nothing to do with the issue at hand really. The issue is do we want the Compass to blend in like suggested previously or retain its character. I like it as it is personally.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahhh, I don't use Apple...

 ._

 

I didn't say you did, just pointed out your argument is nothing special or eye opening as every mac addict uses it. That went too offtopic...

 Either way, my point was, I don't think its a good idea to turn a Compass which to me has extreme appeal in terms of looks into another Mac product, as if there isn't enough already. It would a great shame if such a good looking product looks like another mac clone garbage.

 I do like the Audio-gd font though, it gives the Compass some flare. Please don't email Kingwa asking for his product to look like a the devil's clone garbage. Would make me cry a little inside.

 BTW has Currawong recovered from his sickness?


----------



## Currawong

Do I need to start reporting posts in this threa?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *godluvsxs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Curra, Thanks for the impression! Really appreciate it, during the process COMPASS using it's stock cable while Benchmark equipped with Audio-gd power cables ?_

 

Nope, switched the Audio-gd power cable between units as we tried them.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are there any definite plans from Audio-gd to develop higher ends Dacs than the Compass while having *usb input* and (unbalanced) *rca output*?_

 

You need to email Kingwa and ask him. We have no more idea than you do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AustinIsWierd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In my first attempt at entering the mid-fi headphone world, I got some ATH-AD700's and the Nuforce Icon Mobile. Would I gain enough to "upgrade" to the Compass? The last time I tried to upgrade my DAC, I found a PCM1702 based DAC (BB reference board) with 4 paralleled per channel. Added a L-Audio I/V and added . For the life of me, I couldn't tell a difference between this DAC and the standard output from a mid level Denon CD player or a Planet CD. Perhaps, I lack the golden ear.

 I did hear differences in various amps (tube vs SS)...

 Thanks..._

 

I think only one person has done a comparison with a CD player. Most of the interest in DACs here comes from people using a computer as a source. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *inF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have also a Corda 2Move and much interested in your comparison with Compass, especially using HD 600's. Also a M^3 comparison would be awesome! When do you think you'll be able to do that, at least with the Move?_

 

I've stuck my Corda Move on my desk to remind me after I get back from work.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see that you felt we needed the 19db of gain setting, but recently lowered it to 15 ( which is just above the 13db of the lower gain setting we now have). Do you feel that an additional preamp would then be needed to use the Compass with a vinyl front end? I have lent out my vinyl set up to my brother so I cannot test it myself._

 

I'm guessing this is because PP didn't use a phono stage, which is otherwise necessary.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering if you have done a comparison on the Compass DAC/AMP vs the Compass DAC with the C2C? This would isolate the "slightly rolled off highs" to the headphone section of the Compass... and would allow poeple who felt they wanted to upgrade the Compass sound to add a C2C._

 

I have, in one of my posts. In shotgun summary: the C2C has tighter bass and more detail and separation compared to the headamp of the Compass. Listening to a live recording, the Compass made me feel as if I were at the back of the audience, and the C2C as if I were in the midst. 

  Quote:


 When you compared the Benchmark DAC1 with the Compass, did you isolate either DAC section and evaluate that seperatley , or was it just unit vs unit? 
 

I only evaluated the DAC section. You can't plug electrostatic headphones into a regular headphone jack.


----------



## mbd2884

BTW if anyone wants a cool video to learn to solder, this guy makes it easy to learn, case any DIY stuff you all want to do for cables, board whatever.

Basic Soldering Techniques


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am referring to Chinese as the sort of generic font that their machines print onto stuff. 

Welcome to Audiophilechina

 Something along these lines - the font is just unappealing and looks rough and utilitarian._

 

The font is actually a little curvy, even the lower case L's have a bit at both ends. I think it's a very nice font, in fact I want to know what it is now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## goorackerelite

me want one!!!


----------



## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The font is actually a little curvy, even the lower case L's have a bit at both ends. I think it's a very nice font, in fact I want to know what it is now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

I think he was talking about the font on the amp.

 Which I agree is hideous. Not so much the font (which I think is pretty bad), but the positioning just looks wrong to my eyes.


----------



## Tyson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd love to hear it no doubt with your excellent ref system Tyson.

 It has piqued my curiosity, even more so having experienced the trickle down topology benefit the Compass clearly enjoys some of the fruits of from it's bigger brother.

 Amazing revelation that the C1 has surpassed the VTL's...wow...

 Peete._

 

Come by anytime 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The VTL's are packed up and in storage right now. They will be up for sale very shortly. That's how good the C1 is.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Compass dimensions are listed as: width 250mm, height 75mm and depth 290mm.

 Can someone post an underneath shot of the Compass' feet or shock absorbers? With the feet of the Compass recessed, what are the actual footprint dimensions (width x depth in mm) that the unit needs to stand on?

 As for the desktop surface area, I'm considering placing the Compass' rear panel against the wall. The uncabled depth of the unit is 29 cm, however, I will be using all the rear inputs. Factoring in the tightest bend of a cabled Compass, how much more depth (in mm) is required on the desk for using:

 a) *Stock cable package*--power, optical, USB, coaxial, RCA analog? From Peete's pictures, it looks like the USB or coaxial cable protrudes the most.

 b) *Upgrade cable options*--exclusive power, Canare coaxial? mbd2884 mentioned the exclusive power cable as:



They are stiff, yeah this power cord does not like to bend. Its about 2.5 times the width of the default cord that comes with the Compass. The power plug, going into the power source, again its 2.5 times the size of the normal plug. The plug going into the Compass, now its a little over 3 times the size. Its ridiculous.

Click to expand...

The Canare coaxial cable does not appear to have a flexible connector. Are they RG-59 (22AWG) or RG-6 (18AWG)? What model are these cables--Canare Corp. - Quality Cables and Connectors: Cable?_

 

That's a lot of questions! To answer at least some of them, here are first some pictures from the indecent side of the Compass:














 The footprint of the feet is 20 cm by 15 cm (center to center), or 24 cm by 19 cm (outer edge to outer edge).

 With stock cables you will need at least 7 cm of space from the wall. (Based on protrusion of the stock power cable.)

 With upgraded Audio-gd cables you will need at least 12 cm separation from the wall (based on the Shark interconnects, the Canare coaxial sticks out about 1 cm less). I don't have the custom power cable, so that might need even more space.
 However it may be, I would advise to factor in at least a few centimeters more. Might be better for the life of your cables.

 The Audio-gd Canare coaxial (digital, 75 ohm) cable is a L-5CFBA 702 with C5F RCA connectors. I can't find the direct equivalent of these last ones on the Canare website. Maybe someone else knows.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Compass dimensions are listed as: width 250mm, height 75mm and depth 290mm.

 Can someone post an underneath shot of the Compass' feet or shock absorbers? With the feet of the Compass recessed, what are the actual footprint dimensions (width x depth in mm) that the unit needs to stand on?


 a) *Stock cable package*--power, optical, USB, coaxial, RCA analog? From Peete's pictures, it looks like the USB or coaxial cable protrudes the most.
_

 

If I understand your question correctly, the measurements between the feet (from the center of the feet) is 150mm width and 200mm depth - and yes you got the stock cables package correct apart from the coaxial cable which I think isn't included (cant be sure as I asked Kingwa not to include any stock cables apart from USB cable, as it would only add weight) , the stock RCA cable is analogue..

 Hope this helps.

 EDIT - DANG ! Drosera beat me... good pics too..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I understand your question correctly, the measurements between the feet (from the center of the feet) is 150mm width and 200mm depth - and yes you got the stock cables package correct apart from the coaxial cable which I think isn't included (cant be sure as I asked Kingwa not to include any stock cables apart from USB cable, as it would only add weight) , the stock RCA cable is analogue..

 Hope this helps.

 EDIT - DANG ! Drosera beat me... good pics too..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sorry about that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A stock coaxial digital cable _is_ included, but it is of the type that even I (not a huge cable-enthusiast) wouldn't think of using. Flimsy wire with those yellow plastic connectors. At most something to tie you over until you get around to buying a proper one.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The issue is do we want the Compass to blend in like suggested previously or retain its character. I like it as it is personally._

 

I'm not expecting the Compass(or any of the Audio-gd product line) to imitate the aesthetics/cosmetics of any other manufacturer(ie. Apple). 

 Function is obviously the number one priority and by all accounts the Compass is developing into an incredible unit. A quality, polished appearance is important too. That really helps to drive sales, it's basic "curb appeal". Most people will have the Compass on display in their homes and offices along with their other high-end components. I don't think anyone is expecting the Compass to have the appearance of Bang and Olufsen, but IMO some additional cosmetic polish(matching control finishes, alignment, labeling, etc.) will help increase sales and overall customer satisfaction...


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not expecting the Compass(or any of the Audio-gd product line) to imitate the aesthetics/cosmetics of any other manufacturer(ie. Apple). 

 Function is obviously the number one priority and by all accounts the Compass is developing into an incredible unit. A quality, polished appearance is important too. That really helps to drive sales, it's basic "curb appeal". Most people will have the Compass on display in their homes and offices along with their other high-end components. I don't think anyone is expecting the Compass to have the appearance of Bang and Olufsen, but IMO some additional cosmetic polish(matching control finishes, alignment, labeling, etc.) will help increase sales and overall customer satisfaction..._

 

But how important is this, really? I mean, audio enthousiasts in general and headphone-subtypes in particular are predominantly of the geeky sort anyways (sorry guys and girls). I don't think looks will be a dealbreaker with the most of us.
 Also, it is important to know where to draw the line in these things. I personally like the "functional"-look. I like the look of NAD-gear for the same reason. Sure, looking at the high-end Musical Fidelity stuff (for example), might give me a strange tingly feeling for a moment. But that feeling soon goes away when I realise that probably up to half the price I would be paying for the product went into the styling of it.
 Anyways, extreme example above aside, please do consider that some seemingly small changes might mean a serious extra investment from Kingwa. One of the reasons being that he has to order things like enclosures in bulk to keep the price down.

 Wow, all this back and forth about styling. We really need to have some more impressions again of how the thing sounds.


----------



## cegras

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am referring to Chinese as the sort of generic font that their machines print onto stuff. 

Welcome to Audiophilechina

 Something along these lines - the font is just unappealing and looks rough and utilitarian._

 

For clarification's sake, I certainly hope that you would swing around other racial names as freely as you do if they were the ones putting out these so-called bad products.


----------



## scootermafia

My God, I just don't like the typical fonts that products for the Chinese market have. A nice font like the ones in Mac OS interfaces and such would be great. There's no other country that makes such unappealing fonts.

 The fonts on my Darkvoice are fine, it's a handsome and well put together machine aside from the nonexistent power switch. The fonts aren't bad on the Compass, just a little sloppy. But a few Chinese products while popular are way too unprofessional looking, they are eyesores, and I'd never buy them for that reason alone.


----------



## scootermafia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think he was talking about the font on the amp.

 Which I agree is hideous. Not so much the font (which I think is pretty bad), but the positioning just looks wrong to my eyes._

 

What's even better than the offensive, generic font which is comparable to the fonts on the box of grey market pop tarts at the 99 cent store...is the fake Neutrik jack on the audiophilechina.com amp. Really classy move, on a $199 amplifier.

 Why does everyone hate on Apple? Sure they do lots of evil things, like charge a lot for iPods where the battery is near impossible to replace...but their products are still the best of their kind and I still love using Mac OS although I recognize that PCs are important to those that want the latest hardware for the least amount of money. Vista is still garbage compared to OSX in pretty much every category and you'd be insane to use it for anything except for gaming and certain specialized software needs. 

 Apple's products have high build quality in terms of how all the seams match together perfectly and just the precise industrial look and choice of materials and fonts and colors. I have no idea why you wouldn't want something to have the build quality/look of something like the new Macbook Pro. And I didn't say I wanted it to look like an Apple product, just that it look nicely made - and it does - it's just that the font layout on the front is all over the place and could be made to look nicer. Headamp products like the GS-1 are handsome...make it something along those lines with more symmetry and balance.






 Can't really argue with the look of this. It makes you want to buy it. The compass still impresses the hell out of me with the brute retard strength of its internals' design.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't really argue with the look of this. It makes you want to buy it. The compass still impresses the hell out of me with the brute retard strength of its internals' design._

 

Maybe that's why there are such a lot of pictures on the Audio-gd website of the _insides_ of their products. It could just be that they think that is of slightly higher importance than everything else.

 And can we please not mention the word Apple ever again in this thread. Thank you.


----------



## sandchak

I really don't believe the font issue holding the center-stage of this thread after such detailed reviews of Compass is out, I think we should focus more on the heart of Compass - if that really matters to many.
 If one looks around, one will find that those cribbing about the fonts - layouts etc, are the ones who haven't yet heard Compass - so maybe there lies the answer ..

 EDIT. I know some folks will say after all its a healthy discussion, Yes I agree when it happens once, even so when it happens the second time but utterly silly and tiring when it keeps happening again and again...


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But how important is this, really? I mean, audio enthousiasts in general and headphone-subtypes in particular are predominantly of the geeky sort anyways (sorry guys and girls). I don't think looks will be a dealbreaker with the most of us._

 

I agree, I don't see the current appearance as a dealbreaker for me either. I wasn't suggesting a complete cosmetic overhaul, but I do think it needs to be more polished/refined. That will only help give it more broad appeal and help drive sales. The headphone arena is growing very well and the price point of the Compass makes it accessible to almost anyone. The market seems much larger than just the hardest core audiophiles and DIY'ers. There are a lot of emerging companies putting out some quality, slick looking gear. With all of the hard work and quality that's going into the Compass internals, it would be a shame to lose sales over lipstick...


----------



## scootermafia

Yeah, there's so much goodies packed in the Compass for $250, you'd be insane not to buy one over all the other stuff out there....it's clearly won over Peete's heart...if I had to do it all over again I probably would have skipped the $600 m3, $300 tube amp, and $250 DAC and gone with the compass...would've had enough for 2, one for work and one for home.

 And I don't even dislike the looks of the compass, it's badass, it has nice knobs/switches, the neutrik jack I wanted, the fonts aren't perfect but they're darn good, and the all aluminum case is great. It's light years beyond most of its competitors.


----------



## Chu

I personally think the GLite is one of the best looking amps at any pricerange, and such things do matter. You can talk about topology and internals all you want but it's just so beautiful that I just want one on my desk.

 I don't think anyone is saying the Audio-GD is ugly, it's just sort of bland. I honestly think that there is a point to all this talk, and that is that in the end if some of the mid to hi-fi Chinese audio shops found a designer with a knack for front panel design it really would bring them to the next level.

 All those people who cruse these forums looking for an amp in the G-Lite/Compass range, I have a sneaking suspicion that looks count for a lot more than we all want to admit. Most people simply will never be able to hear these amps, and you really can find reviews of any of the best-in-tier amps to convince yourself to make the leap. Everyone can see the amps though, and some are just better looking than others.


----------



## Chu

I really sort of hate to harp on this issue because noone really can deny the build quality and internals are top-notch, but seriously . . .






 Little details matter an absolute ton when it comes to design. Why is "Ear Out" right aligned while everything else is centered? Why are "Selector" and "Volume" on different levels? Why is the centering off on some of the text? What does "super" mean? (I know this has been changed). Why does the "visual weight" of the two large knobs feel a bit off balance?

 I don't really want to invest the time in photoshop to "fix" these issues to make a point, but for all of us detailed-orientated people here, little things like this just create an itch you can't quite scratch. It just reflects poorly on what is a quality product.

 (I agree it's _miles_ ahead of most other Chinese audiophile front panel designs though)


----------



## ScottieB

But I simply want to repeat the point - kingwa designs audio equipment - electronics - not front panels. To hire a proper designer would cost more money - the opposite of the point of the compass. Stylish brands cost more - and not necessarily because they work better. When you pay for Sony or Apple, a good portion of that price comes from the design (and marketing) - the product's image. Bose, too, could probably be lumped in there. It's not that aesthetics don't matter, it's that they aren't free - and when you're designing something bang for the buck corners are inevitably going to be cut. I, for one, am glad they are cut on the appearance and not the functionality.


----------



## Toe Tag

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While it's hard to describe the degree of difference between the two units, if we rate an iPod at 5 and my Northstar at 100, the Nakamichi Dragon DAC gets 120, the Lavry DA-10 and Benchmark DAC 1 come in at 95, the Zero DAC (stock) would be about 60 and the Compass would be an 80.

 This is a good example of the law of diminishing returns. I'd say I was quite right that to get a significant upgrade from the Compass, you'd need to spend somewhere around the $1000 mark, which is what the Benchmark and Lavry cost. There are still quite a few DACs which fall in between, however. Audio-gd's Ref 3 DAC at under $800 will predicably beat it too, not to mention their other DACs that use a multi-bit DA processor._

 

How would the best portable DACs fit into your rating numbers? A number under active review here. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/u...ce-xm5-306883/

 I am new to this hobby, and consider myself lucky and grateful to walk right into the Compass 2 as my first starter DAC. I will continue to read the detailed reviews, but a roadmap like Currawong's is a real godsend. By analogy, on that internationalsexguide info site, sometimes you don't need reviews of every girl, you just want a map of where the brothels are. 

 Are there any similar reviews or bang-for-the-buck (so to speak) winners for headphones?


----------



## cynan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe that's why there are such a lot of pictures on the Audio-gd website of the insides of their products. It could just be that they think that is of slightly higher importance than everything else._

 

That is exactly what drew me toward Audio-gd recently. I think their products look fine, and would prefer no text whatsoever on the front face - but who cares? I may be new to this particular audio-technology enthusiast genre, but I've been interested in all types of technology for years. PC/HI-FI/Home theater, you name it, Audio-gd seems to be one of the few brands that is genuinely interested in what is inside the box first, and how pretty the box is second. And if it wasn't for this philosophy, we would currently not be participating in a 150 pg or so thread in anticipation of so much audio gear for so little money (at least at the intro price).

 For a value oriented product such as the Compass, how many here can honestly say they would not mind paying an extra $100 or more per unit just so Audio-dg could contract an artist for aesthetic consulting, as other companies do such as A... (almost said it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )

 Audio-dg. They look as much as they cost. They perform much, much better.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really sort of hate to harp on this issue because noone really can deny the build quality and internals are top-notch, but seriously . . .






 Little details matter an absolute ton when it comes to design. Why is "Ear Out" right aligned while everything else is centered? Why are "Selector" and "Volume" on different levels? Why is the centering off on some of the text? What does "super" mean? (I know this has been changed). Why does the "visual weight" of the two large knobs feel a bit off balance?

 I don't really want to invest the time in photoshop to "fix" these issues to make a point, but for all of us detailed-orientated people here, little things like this just create an itch you can't quite scratch. It just reflects poorly on what is a quality product.

 (I agree it's miles ahead of most other Chinese audiophile front panel designs though)_

 

I think you actually _love_ to harp on about this. (Well-intentioned no doubt.)

 Apart from the misaligned "Ear Out" I doubt your criticisms will make much sense to people actually owning the Compass, because none of those are visible on the actual product. (Or to me anyways.) If you really want to make your point, please photoshop away. If your problem is just with the photograph, then the solution to that would be for Audio-gd to hire a professional photographer. Again: higher costs.

 I second Sandchak's remark. It's interesting that all those complaining about the looks are people who haven't actually heard the Compass. Once you hear it you'll just close your eyes and get lost in the music. What difference do the looks make then.

 To me its "functional" look, not to mention that it's build to resist a small earthquake, says much much more about the contents than a slickly designed fascia would.


----------



## mattcalf

I've decided I'm going to pick on of these badboys up before the promo price ends.

 Thanks to all the 'heads' from the first batch and to peetes review.


----------



## WC Annihilus

I think there's a pretty good chance I'll grab one of these myself. Now I'm really just deciding whether to buy the other power and/or coaxial cable, as those will be pushing things to around $400 total. Being an audio newbie, that's a bit of a daunting thought.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WC Annihilus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think there's a pretty good chance I'll grab one of these myself. Now I'm really just deciding whether to buy the other power and/or coaxial cable, as those will be pushing things to around $400 total. Being an audio newbie, that's a bit of a daunting thought._

 

If I was in your shoes, I would only pick up the Compass and the rest later.. at USD258 + ship, newbie or any be for that matter is a bargain.. later you can think about upgrading things.. well maybe.. just maybe if you can squeeze in the coax cable too..


----------



## mattcalf

Has it been documented whether the after market power cable is really neccesary?

 (Providing a generic one is provided).


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mattcalf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has it been documented whether the after market power cable is really neccesary?

 (Providing a generic one is provided)._

 

Bit of a strange way to put it, 'necessary'. The Compass will work fine with any kind of power cable. But several testers who bought the Audio-gd power cable have reported improvements, mainly where it comes to clarity.
 Keep in mind though that the Audio-gd cable (both stock and custom) comes with an American-type plug. If you live in a region of the world that employs a different kind of plug, you will need an adapter or reterminate. Alternatively you can buy a cable from Audio-gd without the plugs and buy audiophile plugs separately yourself.


----------



## mattcalf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bit of a strange way to put it, 'necessary'. The Compass will work fine with any kind of power cable. But several testers who bought the Audio-gd power cable have reported improvements, mainly where it comes to clarity.
 Keep in mind though that the Audio-gd cable (both stock and custom) comes with an American-type plug. If you live in a region of the world that employs a different kind of plug, you will need an adapter or reterminate. Alternatively you can buy a cable from Audio-gd without the plugs and buy audiophile plugs separately yourself._

 


 Ok that is logical, be a bit more trouble then it's worth.

 Thanks!


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, there's so much goodies packed in the Compass for $250, you'd be insane not to buy one over all the other stuff out there....it's clearly won over Peete's heart...if I had to do it all over again I probably would have skipped the $600 m3, $300 tube amp, and $250 DAC and gone with the compass...would've had enough for 2, one for work and one for home._

 

Have you compared your M3 with the Compass yet, or at least the HP amp in the Compass with the M3? I'm very interested in hearing your impressions.

  Quote:


 And I don't even dislike the looks of the compass, it's badass, it has nice knobs/switches, the neutrik jack I wanted, the fonts aren't perfect but they're darn good, and the all aluminum case is great. It's light years beyond most of its competitors. 
 

I can't remember exactly what I wrote to Kingwa, but it was a shorter version of this: Don't ever let a headamp out of your shop with that crap Chinese locking jack on it, ever. No matter how good the design, how beautiful the case or amazing the sound, having the plug able to slide 1-2mm in and out freely and the sound cut out when you move will make the entire effort pointless. People, just because of that jack being crap, will deside that everything you make is crap.

 The same thing goes for appearance. People will forgive the slight imperfections, but ultimately if Audio-gd wants to be taken seriously, it has to look professional. I hadn't noticed the labels being out of alignment on the front panel, but they shouldn't be. As silly as it may seem, people like their gear to look fantastic (which is one of the reasons tube amps are popular).

 This is why, incidentally, Apple has such a high reputation. It's known that they will have meetings to discuss the placement and color of even just a few pixels in a piece of software. Instead of mounting LEDs in a drilled hole, they will have specially cut micro-sized holes that the LED sits behind and can shine through, so when it's off, it's as good as not there at all.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mattcalf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok that is logical, be a bit more trouble then it's worth.

 Thanks!_

 

Kinda depends on what it is worth to you. Apparently there is something to be gained from using a custom power cable. Whether that improvement is worth 60 USD to you is a personal choice. If you've got money to spare, go ahead and buy one. If you don't, just buy the Compass, you can always decide on a better cable later.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Either way, my point was, I don't think its a good idea to turn a Compass which to me has extreme appeal in terms of looks into another Mac product, as if there isn't enough already. It would a great shame if such a good looking product looks like another mac clone garbage.

 I do like the Audio-gd font though, it gives the Compass some flare. Please don't email Kingwa asking for his product to look like a the devil's clone garbage. Would make me cry a little inside._

 

Ahem. I never ever ever suggested that we use Helvetica font, I actually suggested to Kingwa to use an open source font called Bitsream Vera Sans. I still don't see how changing the font instantly changes the Compass into something Apple would make. Apple is about clean design, usually gloss or matte surfaces and/or machined metal materials etc - the font is hardly a major selling point on an iPod. I merely suggested a font change, and some have had the same opinion, others haven't, and if we go by Kingwa he's probably still got 80 odd panels anyway.

 To me, it would appear to be an easy request (correct me if I'm wrong) but at the end of the day I guess we're stuck with what Kingwa's going to give us. There are plenty of other examples of audio equipment which do not have "Ear Out". The Zero for example has a simple earphone icon. Self-explanatory. I'm fully impressed with how far this unit has come, but to me its about 99% of the way of being super awesome. We know that it sounds great. We know that it is built well. We know it comes backed with great customer service.

 That 1% is just the font face and the alignment (if you check the back some of the text goes over the jacks). If I'm going to be spending 400-500 USD (which is much much more in other currencies, 605 in AUD) in a few months on a large aluminium box that'll sit on my desk and is a force to be reckoned with, not only am I going to want it to sound like 400 dollars, but also at least look close to that.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mattcalf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has it been documented whether the after market power cable is really neccesary?

 (Providing a generic one is provided)._

 

I know Sandchak, Currawong and myself have the power plug.

 Les had linked some cool sites that explained the idea behind after-market power cables. Even after reading them, I've said it before, its so bizarre how much difference it made for me.

 Currawong said for $60 dollars he couldn't think of a better upgrade that would improve the sound as much as the cable did. And as he said, its all about diminishing return and whether you the listener feels its worth the upgrade.

 But again, its up to you. Benefit of getting cable from Kingwa, is that for 60 bucks, be hard to find a better deal. If you get it with the Compass, you won't have to pay for extra shipping.

 But I agree with Drosera also, get the Compass first, then decide on after-market cables if you don't want to spend 350+ initially.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahem. I never ever ever suggested that we use Helvetica font, I actually suggested to Kingwa to use an open source font called Bitsream Vera Sans. I still don't see how changing the font instantly changes the Compass into something Apple would make. Apple is about clean design, usually gloss or matte surfaces and/or machined metal materials etc - the font is hardly a major selling point on an iPod. I merely suggested a font change, and some have had the same opinion, others haven't, and if we go by Kingwa he's probably still got 80 odd panels anyway.

 To me, it would appear to be an easy request (correct me if I'm wrong) but at the end of the day I guess we're stuck with what Kingwa's going to give us. There are plenty of other examples of audio equipment which do not have "Ear Out". The Zero for example has a simple earphone icon. Self-explanatory. I'm fully impressed with how far this unit has come, but to me its about 99% of the way of being super awesome. We know that it sounds great. We know that it is built well. We know it comes backed with great customer service.

 That 1% is just the font face and the alignment (if you check the back some of the text goes over the jacks). If I'm going to be spending 400-500 USD (which is much much more in other currencies, 605 in AUD) in a few months on a large aluminium box that'll sit on my desk and is a force to be reckoned with, not only am I going to want it to sound like 400 dollars, but also at least look close to that._

 

You haven't seen it in your hands yet. Its pre-mature for you to judge it. You haven't turned the dials or felt how solid they are. Haven't seen/felt the resistance on them, how smooth they are. Number of times I looked at Ear Out so far, once, first time I got it. Since then, couldn't care less. You open it up and look at the interior

 Yeah it looks that good, you can take it out and hang it up on your wall, its a work of art.


----------



## chris_ah1

Hats off to Kingwa though with the rubber standoffs or whatever they are so you can safely stack devices without heat becoming an issue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I do agree with the use of the cheap knock-off neutriks though - that was a great liability!! People don't want to have low quality jacks as they are a prime failure point. 

 And yes, aesthetics DO matter. More from a psychological perspective, but still, chemistry is chemistry and everything our brain processes is influenced by it. Some (mac users) are affected more than others. 

 I like to have my cake and eat it with design and quality, but would never sacrificed one iota of performance for design...but IMO the design is simple and quite elegant really. It's definitely not as cluttered and retro as the Lavry DA10. the input selection is a breeze (unlike the beautiful but irritating Musiland MD-10 with its menu system). 

 I would love to try one of these tbh but sheesh my modded Musiland/Diyeden MD-10 sounds AND looks so incredibly sweet so I'll stick with that for a while so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . good luck audio-gd.


----------



## mbd2884

I don't understand. Are you saying the Compass uses cheap knock-off neturiks? On the Compass its not a knock-off, it is a Neutrik jack. We all have commented that its solid and looks great on the Compass. If that's not what you wanted to imply, might want to rephrase that. That and your Musiland, looks like it has a cheap headphone jack ironically, definitely not the Neutrik on the Compass.

 Also pretty sure all 18 testers of the Compass would agree, the interior work done on the Compass blows away the Musiland. Looks way better, and well greater sense of awe when you see the Compass workmanship. Probably due to majority of us are purists and were attracted to the Compass because it is a 100% fully discrete design from start to finish. When you see the modular design for yourself, well you truly get the sense you are getting an awesome DAC and an awesome amp in one box, rather than some one board IC thing where you don't quite know what you have. Power source on Compass also, aesthetically looks much more substantial than Musilands. And aren't the interior components what matters most, not the blue LCD?

 So its all subjective, not everyone is a fan of giant blue LCD on their Amp. But if that's what makes you happy, keep on listening, glad to hear you love it and be able to give someone some advice if they were interested in the Musiland.


----------



## oldschool

Personally, I don't have any issues with the look of the Compass the way it is. Looks nice and very solid. Maybe only the name and position of some labels, but I believe this will be fixed. 

 Also, changing the Neutrik plug to a black one (sadly, Kingwa said they don't ship them to his place) would be nice, but I guess this can be easily arranged with a group order and DIY soldering.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't understand. Are you saying the Compass uses cheap knock-off neturiks?_

 

No, you understand, you JUST DON'T READ what people write, then reply with what you THINK THEY WROTE.

  Quote:


 Also pretty sure all 18 testers of the Compass would agree, the interior work done on the Compass blows away the Musiland. 
 

Now more talk about gear you don't own, for no reason, with no benefit to anyone, and especially not this thread, which you're now derailing for somewhere around a 4th time.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't remember exactly what I wrote to Kingwa, but it was a shorter version of this: Don't ever let a headamp out of your shop with that crap Chinese locking jack on it, ever. No matter how good the design, how beautiful the case or amazing the sound, having the plug able to slide 1-2mm in and out freely and the sound cut out when you move will make the entire effort pointless. People, just because of that jack being crap, will deside that everything you make is crap._

 

I haven't been as direct as I should be, but I have been pressing on Kingwa that external appearance is important to overall marketability and desirability for many people.

 Enough with the Apple comparisons though. Apple excels at external design but rarely does anything special internally. Be it overly complicated or time consuming to access internals on a laptop, poor head management in laptops, etc. Apple is form over function and it often shows. Their hardware and their OS are different in various ways so it's a matter of taste, blanket statements of one OS over another or Apple vs other hardware serve no purpose and are generally wrong as well. Even Apple has made some decent internal engineering decisions from time to time, not always the best, but OK decisions.

 The NAD comparison makes some sense though, as an owner of some NAD gear the enclosure is designed to serve its purpose but there's not much glamor in it. Certainly I think if Kingwa wanted some help laying out the faceplates I would be happy to try to help if it would go to the Compass... but as an owner of the test Compass I agree that there will be no complaints about it from most people. Using it and holding/poking/prodding it should assure anyone that this is a very high quality product.


----------



## les_garten

I think the real issue with the cosmetics is one of impression. You don't want to market your product and have it be seen as slip shod. The alignment issues will have to be addressed and surely will in the next run of faceplates. If I were Kingwa, I would get the Manufacturer to eat those first faceplates because some of this is their problem. The Volume/selector alignment is not Kingwa's fault and they should be replaced on that issue alone. Except for one caveat, if it was accepted by Kingwa, which it most likely was and the alignment was missed. Then it should be shared maybe 50/50 with the manufacturer. 

 I think the issues with the Jacks on the back with the washers covering the Text are Audio-gd's issue. The manufacturer can't know that washers will be used. This should have been caught in the proofing and mock-up stages, as everything else should have been. 

 These are some of the things that make Chinese products "appear" cheap and of poor quality. I also think that "some" of the companies over there just don't get it. I sent an observation about a bad photo on Darkvoice's page and they could care less. It makes their company look Slip Shod, but I don't think they see it that way, or understand what the hullabaloo is about. Kingwa seems to have progressed in this respect, "to a certain degree".

 Most buyers outside of China who buy Audio-gd will discover it through enthusiasts forums, so they'll know the quality of the internals, and will ingnore the warts, but there wil be a percentage that won't accept them.


 .


----------



## csroc

I would tend to agree. Kingwa intends to sell those for the first batch of the improved Compass. He expects some redesign work and a new enclosure to be ready by the end of March I think. I would like to see a big effort put in to making sure those issues are taken care of.


----------



## Shoreman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would tend to agree. Kingwa intends to sell those for the first batch of the improved Compass. He expects some redesign work and a new enclosure to be ready by the end of March I think. I would like to see a big effort put in to making sure those issues are taken care of._

 

...as well as an accelerated time frame for the redesigned enclosures. Yes...I'm eager, but I also, objectively, see no reason why the redesign should take the better part of two months. In this day and age, that's an eternity.

 But what do I know?


----------



## csroc

I'm hoping to talk to Kingwa about this.


----------



## direcow

well, given that it's a topic people keep coming back to, if Kingwa has the time to fix it, it shouldn't be a very difficult fix, and then this topic can be laid to rest.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The footprint of the feet is 20 cm by 15 cm (center to center), or 24 cm by 19 cm (outer edge to outer edge)._

 

Thanks for the pix and responses, Drosera and sandchak! 24 x 19 cm (outer edge to outer edge) are the footprint dimensions that I was looking for if I place the Compass on top of my PC.


  Quote:


 With stock cables you will need at least 7 cm of space from the wall. (Based on protrusion of the stock power cable.)

 With upgraded Audio-gd cables you will need at least 12 cm separation from the wall (based on the Shark interconnects, the Canare coaxial sticks out about 1 cm less). I don't have the custom power cable, so that might need even more space.
 However it may be, I would advise to factor in at least a few centimeters more. Might be better for the life of your cables. 
 

So with the stock cable package, it sounds like the power cable protrudes the most at 70 mm. Then moving up to the upgraded cables, the Canare coaxial needs 120 mm of Compass-wall clearance.

*mbd2884*, can you confirm the minimum wall clearance space of 210 mm (70 mm x 3?) with the Audio-gd exclusive power cable plugged in and pressed against the wall?


  Quote:


 The Audio-gd Canare coaxial (digital, 75 ohm) cable is a L-5CFBA 702 with C5F RCA connectors. I can't find the direct equivalent of these last ones on the Canare website. Maybe someone else knows. 
 

Likewise, couldn't find an exact match for all the digits on the Canare Web site. It's most likely the L-5CFB which are 18 AWG / RG-6. Interesting attenuation table they have posted: Canare Corp. - Quality Cables and Connectors: Series Attenuation Chart


  Quote:


 A stock coaxial digital cable _is_ included, but it is of the type that even I (not a huge cable-enthusiast) wouldn't think of using. Flimsy wire with those yellow plastic connectors. At most something to tie you over until you get around to buying a proper one. 
 

Yes, the plain-Jane stock coaxial cable looks flimsy. Have a spare Monoprice RG-59 coaxial already and was curious about the Canare's build quality and flexibility. I guess Peete will be covering sound quality nuances with the various stock and upgrade cable configurations.


----------



## sandchak

Ok maybe some definitive answers may help to put this topic to the rest 
 at least for a while..

 Kingwa will change the alignment and other cosmetic issues if the majority wishes, yes fonts too, although I wonder how do we reach a consensus on the font..

 He will NOT change the fonts and other cosmetic issues till he sells the 80 odd chassis lying with him, he simply cannot afford to as this promotional price is indeed his costing ( I don't want to start a debate on this issue.. please).

 To make things move faster he will sell 40 Compasses with the old chassis to local and 40 to International market..

 Now the question arises when will the 40 be sold out - well its anybodies guess, maybe March end, April end.. or it may even stretch the entire promotional period.. 

 I personally feel compass is already good like the way it is, and even better after the few upgrades, for the 40 to be sold out in a months time, but then who knows??..

 So I guess, we have clear decision to make here, if you want the Compass very early, and if the 40 inst sold, you will get it with the old fonts etc..

 Those who want to wait, because to many cosmetics does make a difference, hope that 40 Compass sells out fast, if not you would be paying USD200 extra just for those cosmetic touches, in that case at least I wouldn't be proud of my decision..


----------



## csroc

We'll see how long it takes for a new design to come about. I don't know how quickly these things can be done in China since it already seems he has less choice in certain parts (Neutrik jacks, Alps 3 way switches).


----------



## techfreakazoid

With the V2 Compass being standardized with two switches (preamp and gain) on the rear panel, has a decision been made as to where the second switch will be placed? If not, I vote to have it placed by the "big A" of the Audio-gd lettering (above the Opt label) or some distance away from the preamp switch. That way, you can make switch changes without having to look at the back as well as prevent any accidental switching. One of the switches could be rubberized so you can control by feel. Until Kingwa uses up the 79-odd remaining Compass cases (or 40 for Intl), all the font placements / alignment are as is for those cosmetically-minded folks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, someone mentioned a locking optical which sounds good. Let's try to finalize all the details soon so we can all enjoy the Compass (*V2a* with existing faceplates, *V2b* with redesigned faceplate fonts if you want to wait), and Kingwa can start shipping these units by months end and recoup his R&D time to spend on other great products in the pipeline!


----------



## paulw86

sounds promising


----------



## csroc

Kingwa doesn't seem to care if the font is changed, although I kind of like the current font.

 Anyway, I don't know what the final rear panel arrangement will be like, I've been talking with him about that.

 Has anyone emailed him about the locking optical jack?


----------



## Shoreman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the V2 Compass being standardized with two switches (preamp and gain) on the rear panel, has a decision been made as to where the second switch will be placed? If not, I vote to have it placed by the "big A" of the Audio-gd lettering (above the Opt label) or some distance away from the preamp switch. That way, you can make switch changes without having to look at the back as well as prevent any accidental switching. One of the switches could be rubberized so you can control by feel. Until Kingwa uses up the 79-odd remaining Compass cases (or 40 for Intl), all the font placements / alignment are as is for those cosmetically-minded folks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also, someone mentioned a locking optical which sounds good. Let's try to finalize all the details soon so we can all enjoy the Compass (*V2a* with existing faceplates, *V2b* with redesigned faceplate fonts if you want to wait), and Kingwa can start shipping these units by months end and recoup his R&D time to spend on other great products in the pipeline!_

 

Maybe it's a technicality (and I could be wrong), but I believe this _V* _designation is a misnomer. This is not version, or model #2, as the existing units have been designated as pre-production IIRC. Just trying to set the record straight, so everyone is on the same page and knows what we're talking about. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa doesn't seem to care if the font is changed, although I kind of like the current font.

 Anyway, I don't know what the final rear panel arrangement will be like, I've been talking with him about that.

 Has anyone emailed him about the locking optical jack?_

 

Maybe you could start another poll on the words: ear - out and super (giving some logical options).. also on the font - although I understand it would be difficult to come to a consensus on that.. so that Kingwa has these info ready on what the majority wants when he places the order on the next batch of chassis..

 just a thought to smoothen the entire process..


----------



## csroc

Not a bad idea, realistically though the font issue is one that will probably be very hard to solve as everyone will have a different taste. I'll look in to doing that later today, I am actually looking at the panel designs myself, might suggest some ideas for Kingwa although I'm not sure how far along he is with ordering new panels.

 The problem with starting a poll for the font is that there are so many font options, what do I list? Of course I'm also having the issue of if I want to come up with some designs I don't have the font Audio-dg uses nor do I know what it is.


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe you could start another poll on the words: ear - out and super (giving some logical options).. also on the font - although I understand it would be difficult to come to a consensus on that.. so that Kingwa has these info ready on what the majority wants when he places the order on the next batch of chassis..

 just a thought to smoothen the entire process.._

 

I think this would be a great idea, as it would help give some feedback on what people like/dislike about the looks, as well as not cluttering this thread up with people attacking each other over trivial stuff.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not a bad idea, realistically though the font issue is one that will probably be very hard to solve as everyone will have a different taste. I'll look in to doing that later today, I am actually looking at the panel designs myself, might suggest some ideas for Kingwa although I'm not sure how far along he is with ordering new panels.

 The problem with starting a poll for the font is that there are so many font options, what do I list? Of course I'm also having the issue of if I want to come up with some designs I don't have the font Audio-dg uses nor do I know what it is._

 

I absolutely agree with you about the fonts, I think it has to come down to a basic font - maybe I can ask kingwa for some samples of fonts which is available to his chassis manufacturer and folks could choose one of them - or have a poll whatever.. but on the ear-out and Super, I think some logical options for ear out like headphones - ear - or just leave it blank like some suggested, and for super - maybe bypass.. dont know it doesnt come to my mind, maybe because I just like it as it is..
 all I am suggesting is that we try to iron out these issues before he places the order for the second lot of chassis.. I am sure he hasn't yet, because he is willing to incorporate changes on the cosmetic side if the same is felt by the majority..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, given that it's a topic people keep coming back to, if Kingwa has the time to fix it, it shouldn't be a very difficult fix, and then this topic can be laid to rest._

 


 I don't think time has anything to do with it. Most likely a $$$ issue. He probably doesn't want to throw away 80 fronts and rears. Or 80 fronts for that matter. The rear is not as big a deal.


 .


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I absolutely agree with you about the fonts, I think it has to come down to a basic font - maybe I can ask kingwa for some samples of fonts which is available to his chassis manufacturer and folks could choose one of them - or have a poll whatever.. but on the ear-out and Super, I think some logical options for ear out like headphones - ear - or just leave it blank like some suggested, and for super - maybe bypass.. dont know it doesnt come to my mind, maybe because I just like it as it is..
 all I am suggesting is that we try to iron out these issues before he places the order for the second lot of chassis.. I am sure he hasn't yet, because he is willing to incorporate changes on the cosmetic side if the same is felt by the majority.._

 

I have actually offered to send him a design suggestion that will hopefully make the rear panel a bit better organized and more polished. I may do the front panel too, but I feel aside from centering "Ear Out" that there is less that needs to be done there. Still, I will come up with something.

 He said he is meeting with the panel manufacturer on the 22nd.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shoreman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe it's a technicality (and I could be wrong), but I believe this V* designation is a misnomer. This is not version, or model #2, as the existing units have been designated as pre-production IIRC. Just trying to set the record straight, so everyone is on the same page and knows what we're talking about. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken._

 

V2 has been used earlier in this thread to distinguish from the first 18. On the Audio-gd Web site, Kingwa refers the new Compass as the "upgrade version" so maybe we should be referring the new units as *UV* instead. Anyway, Kingwa is standardizing on one version for 2009 and if / when new updates are incorporated, numbers and letters are easiest to use for tracking of new features and specs (as opposed to names for new brand development purposes). Perhaps Currawong can add the distinctions on the Compass FAQ page to assist other Head-Fi'ers in new or resale transactions.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not a bad idea, realistically though the font issue is one that will probably be very hard to solve as everyone will have a different taste. I'll look in to doing that later today, I am actually looking at the panel designs myself, might suggest some ideas for Kingwa although I'm not sure how far along he is with ordering new panels.

 The problem with starting a poll for the font is that there are so many font options, what do I list? Of course I'm also having the issue of if I want to come up with some designs I don't have the font Audio-dg uses nor do I know what it is._

 

To me the font issue is a non issue. I like the current font and that's what will be on mine apparently. My suggestion would be to post pix of equipment you like and everyone vote on the Pix. That way you will know what the Font would look like on a Faceplate. Like the Gilmore already posted. Then narrow it down with the Poll. Poor Kingwa, hopefully he will do this again in the future! He should look at this as "Open Source" Industrial Design.


 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I absolutely agree with you about the fonts, I think it has to come down to a basic font - maybe I can ask kingwa for some samples of fonts which is available to his chassis manufacturer and folks could choose one of them - or have a poll whatever.. but on the ear-out and Super, I think some logical options for ear out like headphones - ear - or just leave it blank like some suggested, and for super - maybe bypass.. dont know it doesnt come to my mind, maybe because I just like it as it is..
 all I am suggesting is that we try to iron out these issues before he places the order for the second lot of chassis.. I am sure he hasn't yet, because he is willing to incorporate changes on the cosmetic side if the same is felt by the majority.._

 

I would think it would come down to: no Label -- Phones -- Headphones -- or my Favorite a Pictogram of a set of Headphones.

 .


----------



## haloxt

I think the current font is already very good. You know what all the buttons and knobs are at a glance since the white font on the black background stands out so well and is neither too bland nor too curvy. Unless you trace the lines with your eyes, you won't jmmediately notice the curviness, but if you take time to admire the front panel you can appreciate how unobtrusive and pleasing the font is.

 The only thing I'll admit could improve the front panel is changing the letters under the neutrik connector, just paint it over with black, that weird looking thing needs no introduction 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would think it would come down to: no Label -- Phones -- Headphones -- or my Favorite a Pictogram of a set of Headphones.

 ._

 

Pictogram would be a great idea


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the current font is already very good. You know what all the buttons and knobs are at a glance since the white font on the black background stands out so well and is neither too bland nor too curvy. Unless you trace the lines with your eyes, you won't jmmediately notice the curviness, but if you take time to admire the front panel you can appreciate how unobtrusive and pleasing the font is.

 The only thing I'll admit could improve the front panel is changing the letters under the neutrik connector, just paint it over with black, that weird looking thing needs no introduction 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

*[size=medium]X2[/size]*


----------



## Joeoboe

Since this is meant to be marketed internationally, perhaps less labeling is best. I would not mind seeing as little as just the Input selector and logo on the panel, eliminating all the text below the buttons. Perhaps you could do the standard power pictogram for the power switch. Since the Super button may be connected to different functions for different people, I would hesitate printing "bypass"... perhaps "option" would work... or keep Super ( which I have have grown fond of!)... but perhaps leaving it blank would be fine also.
 I personally like a nice clean panel without lots of clutter... but that is me.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To me the font issue is a non issue. I like the current font and that's what will be on mine apparently. My suggestion would be to post pix of equipment you like and everyone vote on the Pix. That way you will know what the Font would look like on a Faceplate. Like the Gilmore already posted. Then narrow it down with the Poll. Poor Kingwa, hopefully he will do this again in the future! He should look at this as "Open Source" Industrial Design.


 ._

 

I agree the font is a non issue!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would think it would come down to: no Label -- Phones -- Headphones -- or my Favorite a Pictogram of a set of Headphones.

 ._

 

More or less what I was thinking.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since this is meant to be marketed internationally, perhaps less labeling is best. I would not mind seeing as little as just the Input selector and logo on the panel, eliminating all the text below the buttons. Perhaps you could do the standard power pictogram for the power switch. Since the Super button may be connected to different functions for different people, I would hesitate printing "bypass"... perhaps "option" would work... or keep Super ( which I have have grown fond of!)... but perhaps leaving it blank would be fine also.
 I personally like a nice clean panel without lots of clutter... but that is me._

 

Oddly although many of us grumbled about super initially it does work well if there is going to be customization for that front button. I have grown fond of it as well.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, you understand, you JUST DON'T READ what people write, then reply with what you THINK THEY WROTE.



 Now more talk about gear you don't own, for no reason, with no benefit to anyone, and especially not this thread, which you're now derailing for somewhere around a 4th time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 


 Why don't you quote and ridicule anyone here who has commented on the appearance of the Compass, but don't actually own one. If you are going to do this, at least be fair.

 To the rest, just hope something is decided upon to get over this 1% factor on the front panel...


----------



## theBigD

just an update on my earth and moon hdams. originally went from china to LA on DHL. transfered to usps, went to NJ. Today they are back in LA. I live in Oregon. at least now they are on same coast!


----------



## edselfordfong

Hey, will anyone be attending canjam with their Compass? I live in LA and probably will come for at least an afternoon, depending on childcare. If so, would anyone be interested in a burn-in comparison? I would holding off burning-in mine (not yet ordered), such that it could be compared to a fully burned-in unit. I might even request that Kingwa skip the 100 hour factory burn-in if there were interest.


----------



## WC Annihilus

Pretty sure at least one person said they would be going and bringing their Compass with them. Doorknob iirc


----------



## csroc

Alright I created a survey for the front panel font and labeling discussion. Fonts applied here will affect any other silkscreening I think (so rear panel as well for example).
more compass stuff

 I've also been fiddling with ideas for how the front panel could be laid out differently. I'm going to start fiddling with the back panel in a bit.





 These are not official fonts, just whatever was selected by default in the program I'm using (Illustrator).


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why don't you quote and ridicule anyone here who has commented on the appearance of the Compass, but don't actually own one. If you are going to do this, at least be fair.

 To the rest, just hope something is decided upon to get over this 1% factor on the front panel..._

 

Maybe because they are legitimate comments and you can see what the unit looks like in pictures just fine. None of these people need to own a compass to judge it on its looks. How is his current method not fair?

 Besides, I think there has been someone from this thread who has repeatedly commented on the look of the internals of another dac/amp that they didn't own. I think it was the KECES. Hmmm... who was that?


----------



## Shoreman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright I created a survey for the front panel font and labeling discussion. Fonts applied here will affect any other silkscreening I think (so rear panel as well for example).
more compass stuff

 I've also been fiddling with ideas for how the front panel could be laid out differently. I'm going to start fiddling with the back panel in a bit.



_

 

You are to be heartily commended for the significant time, interest and effort you have put (and are putting) into this endeavor on all our behalf. I, for one, can't thank you enough. But isn't this all going to push the launch date back even further? I mean (although not literally) it almost feels as if we are redesigning the Compass --at least cosmetically-- from square one.

 I'm exaggerating of course, but you get my drift.


----------



## csroc

Kingwa is talking about ordering new panels which will come _after_ the 40 current enclosures are sold. This will probably take time to materialize but if a new design comes about I think we'd see it in later March or April after the 40 remaining chassis have been used. This isn't a major redesign though, I know the Volume knob has to stay where it is.

 He is already planning some new silk screening for parts, such as the rear panel. I also asked if he would be interested in some tweaks to the panel design for components that aren't board mounted. It sounded to me in the email like he was interested in some pictures so I'm making some 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Unfortunately I forgot to give the font question a comment box. I added an open question at the end which just gives you a comment box to write the font you'd like in.


----------



## Doorknob

Yes I'll be available with my Compass at the Canjam. However, chances are I'll probably not be returning my Compass to Kingwa for an updated V2 version with what, as of right now, looks mostly to be aesthetics and minor changes that won't change the sound signature much if at all.


----------



## csroc

Upgraded Compass will have lower gain, preamp and gain switches added. Those are really the biggest changes. It will also get upgraded RCA jacks.


----------



## Shoreman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa is talking about ordering new panels which will come after the 40 current enclosures are sold. This will probably take time to materialize but if a new design comes about I think we'd see it in later March or April after the 40 remaining chassis have been used. This isn't a major redesign though, I know the Volume knob has to stay where it is.

 He is already planning some new silk screening for parts, such as the rear panel. I also asked if he would be interested in some tweaks to the panel design for components that aren't board mounted. It sounded to me in the email like he was interested in some pictures so I'm making some 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

As someone alluded to earlier (maybe it was you, csroc), boy this feels like open source...


----------



## csroc

Wasn't me, but I'm fine with that. It's all kind of fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I personally don't even really care if cosmetically little to nothing changes, but that doesn't mean I don't have ideas.


----------



## scootermafia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you compared your M3 with the Compass yet, or at least the HP amp in the Compass with the M3? I'm very interested in hearing your impressions.



 I can't remember exactly what I wrote to Kingwa, but it was a shorter version of this: Don't ever let a headamp out of your shop with that crap Chinese locking jack on it, ever. No matter how good the design, how beautiful the case or amazing the sound, having the plug able to slide 1-2mm in and out freely and the sound cut out when you move will make the entire effort pointless. People, just because of that jack being crap, will deside that everything you make is crap.

 The same thing goes for appearance. People will forgive the slight imperfections, but ultimately if Audio-gd wants to be taken seriously, it has to look professional. I hadn't noticed the labels being out of alignment on the front panel, but they shouldn't be. As silly as it may seem, people like their gear to look fantastic (which is one of the reasons tube amps are popular).

 This is why, incidentally, Apple has such a high reputation. It's known that they will have meetings to discuss the placement and color of even just a few pixels in a piece of software. Instead of mounting LEDs in a drilled hole, they will have specially cut micro-sized holes that the LED sits behind and can shine through, so when it's off, it's as good as not there at all._

 

I agree with pretty much everything here. I think it would be a good idea if we vote on font or something, the goal being a clean look like an Apple product with the Headamp GS-1 being a benchmark for a clean, professional look that would appeal worldwide. Yes, I am shallow, yes little imperfections in the look have a damaging effect on my mental evaluation of the product - it's simple chemicals as one person said. One can easily number something 1-10 based on how it looks compared to a standard, and the Compass is not quite a 10 yet despite being a darn good first shot.

 One other thing - I read somewhere and confirmed it myself - many know this trick, you can take a sugar cube and use it to scratch off unwanted logo text one stuff - it will take the words 'earamp out' or whatnot on the front that you don't like without scratching the metal. I guess it's like a super soft version of sandpaper. My M3 may be a little boring to look at, I like the way GS-1 and Woo products look a bit better, but it sure is clean.

 I don't own a Compass, nor do I have reason to get one or room in the budget - all my buying happened before the Compass was conceived. I would be curious to hear how the M3 compares to it, keeping in mind that the M3 is a serious midsize desktop amp with more under the hood in its amp section.

 The last word about Apple is that while many like to hate on its price, the company's attitude/arrogance, the software, the fact it isn't a PC, whatever...you cannot complain about the physical appearance of the products, they are engineered to perfection, especially the computers/laptops, and that's the sort of clean look that Kingwa should shoot for.


----------



## scootermafia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa is talking about ordering new panels which will come after the 40 current enclosures are sold. This will probably take time to materialize but if a new design comes about I think we'd see it in later March or April after the 40 remaining chassis have been used. This isn't a major redesign though, I know the Volume knob has to stay where it is.

 He is already planning some new silk screening for parts, such as the rear panel. I also asked if he would be interested in some tweaks to the panel design for components that aren't board mounted. It sounded to me in the email like he was interested in some pictures so I'm making some 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Unfortunately I forgot to give the font question a comment box. I added an open question at the end which just gives you a comment box to write the font you'd like in._

 

Good lord, it sure would be sweet if Kingwa could put in those sexy recessed 3-way toggles like what is on the front of the GS-1. The GS-1's price might make me angry, but its pretty, pretty front softens my heart.


----------



## HammerSandwich

Frankly, I just don't care that much about the cosmetics. I'll happily take one of the current faceplates, especially if that keeps the cost down. But since you asked...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




_

 

Just looking at the labeling, I like the middle one. HOWEVER, I would prefer having the labels above their controls. This would more closely match the selector labels and also be far easier to read from the usual angle (above, looking down).

 Now, if Kingwa is willing to move the panel's openings, I'd vote to move one of the rear switches to the front. For my use, having both bypass & pre-out/HP switches on the front would rock.


----------



## LaidBack

Nice work Csroc!

 My vote is for the sample in the middle.

 Can you try to placing the word "Source" under the source selector? 

 I don't know if you've had a chance to read it, but a previous poster suggested the international power symbol be used instead of the word. That could look pretty cool....


----------



## Blast

Are these actually in stock now or are they still pre-order? I took a look at the site and couldn't figure it out. Thanks.


----------



## dBs

Almost looks like a middle finger doesnt it? XD


----------



## gevorg

Enough of this off-topic Apple crap, the font is totally fine now, leave it alone! Isn't there anything else to talk about in this in-development DAC? Kingwa is probably thinking: "Jeez, will these Americans ever be satisfied?!"


----------



## csroc

I was thinking of the international power icon as well... I just wasn't sure how international it was!


----------



## SOUNDinterpreter

i really would just like to see this thing get going already so i could buy one myself >_<. but if kingwa is really considering on changing the front panel, i say either use icons or use text. don't use both. keep it consistent.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe you could start another poll on the words: ear - out and super (giving some logical options).. also on the font - although I understand it would be difficult to come to a consensus on that.. so that Kingwa has these info ready on what the majority wants when he places the order on the next batch of chassis.._

 

Well I vote for Bitstream Vera Sans since its open source and therefore license free. Other suggestions? I suppose the people who are concerned about the font don't actually care what font it is, as long as it looks professional. I'd assume that as long as its not licensed we wouldn't have to pay any fees to use the font, and if we're currently paying for the current font to be used as well as printed well maybe, just maybe there could be a small saving here xD

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think time has anything to do with it. Most likely a $$$ issue. He probably doesn't want to throw away 80 fronts and rears. Or 80 fronts for that matter. The rear is not as big a deal._

 

Yeah when I emailed him and that seemed to be the case. It'd be a shame and a waste to have 80 panels lying around doing nothing

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why don't you quote and ridicule anyone here who has commented on the appearance of the Compass, but don't actually own one. If you are going to do this, at least be fair._

 

Because our opinion also counts. We are potential customers. If the product appeals to us, we are likely to buy it, and other people too. Some part of that appeal is physical appearance. 

 Just because we don't own a unit doesn't mean we don't intend to, and the fact that we have the power to change the end product some of us will excercise that to a fair extent. Owning a unit doesn't make your opinion more valued on the subject of external appearance. The photos are fine.


----------



## LaidBack

I've seen many other quality products that use a combination of text and icons.


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've seen many other quality products that use a combination of text and icons._

 

+1
 If you went with the power icon an the headphone icon it would look slick IMHO.
 Trying to go all icons would be next to impossible


----------



## csroc

I'm not making any final design decisions, these are just ideas. So far though the survey is favoring some kind of icon for the headphones.

 here's some backpanel ideas


----------



## csommers

Damn CSROC.... those backpanels look very very nice


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I vote for Bitstream Vera Sans since its open source and therefore license free. Other suggestions? I suppose the people who are concerned about the font don't actually care what font it is, as long as it looks professional. I'd assume that as long as its not licensed we wouldn't have to pay any fees to use the font, and if we're currently paying for the current font to be used as well as printed well maybe, just maybe there could be a small saving here xD


 Yeah when I emailed him and that seemed to be the case. It'd be a shame and a waste to have 80 panels lying around doing nothing
_

 

 Quote:


 Because our opinion also counts. We are potential customers. If the product appeals to us, we are likely to buy it, and other people too. Some part of that appeal is physical appearance. 

 Just because we don't own a unit doesn't mean we don't intend to, and the fact that we have the power to change the end product some of us will excercise that to a fair extent. Owning a unit doesn't make your opinion more valued on the subject of external appearance. The photos are fine. 
 

Exactly, Kingwa elicited responses whether you own one or not. Indeed the entire product was steered towards it's current state by non-owners! That was the point now wasn't it?

 Additionally, if you own one and are happy with it, why do you care? 

 It does need that last little bit of "finishing", I won't delay mine though. 


 .


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HammerSandwich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ HOWEVER, I would prefer having the labels above their controls. This would more closely match the selector labels and also be far easier to read from the usual angle (above, looking down)._

 

I think that's a good idea. That way, he could keep the holes where they are, too, such that there's enough distance between the label and the Augio-GD/Compass logo. Especially if the headphone out isn't labeled at all, which I also prefer.

 Like others, I can't believe that we're discussing this, but I do think it's important to get right.

 Dying to give my two cents on Apple, but man, we should get over that topic.


----------



## SOUNDinterpreter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csommers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_+1
 If you went with the power icon an the headphone icon it would look slick IMHO.
 Trying to go all icons would be next to impossible
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

i don't think it will be impossible. the usb/coax/opt icons could easily be 1/2/3. and the super button could be just a simple icon.

 edit: also i think the font size on the current compass is a tad bit too big looking.


----------



## csroc

For those who like the universal power icon







 I don't think labeling the digital inputs with numbers would be good, my personal opinion is that would get confusing.

 Haha! Someone said they would like any font but comic sans. How about wingdings?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who like the universal power icon






 I don't think labeling the digital inputs with numbers would be good, my personal opinion is that would get confusing.

 Haha! Someone said they would like any font but comic sans. How about wingdings? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The second one here looks awesome, needs a Kewl Pictogram on the Super Button though!

 .


----------



## WC Annihilus

How bout the Superman logo? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For the input selector, it is perfectly possible to make it icons, as USB has an icon and for the coaxial just have a pictogram of the connector and the optical be like, a square with a circle in the middle. Still, I think it would look better with letters


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SOUNDinterpreter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i don't think it will be impossible. the usb/coax/opt icons could easily be 1/2/3. and the super button could be just a simple icon.

 edit: also i think the font size on the current compass is a tad bit too big looking._

 

Oh ok 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was thinking you meant like having a little USB icon or an optical one and I have no idea what you could use for those


----------



## csroc

Superman logo? haha 

 Anywho I think I am leaning towards something like this personally.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey there sandchak, I wanted to thank you for the sound advice. Thanks for reminding me to stay patient and keep both my feet planted firmly on the ground. I appreciate the advice, which I plan on following. Cheers man. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To Peete, dude that review of yours was mind blowing. It was really cool to read about the music you used. I'm a music junkie and had most of everything you used in either cd or vinyl. For you to use Dream Theater with one of my top 5 drummer influences "Mike Portnoy" was too awesome (I've been a drummer for over 25 years), by the way they would be considered Prog Metal, though genres can be subjective especially when it comes to metal. Not to mention somebody else that owns Dead Can Dance is quite rare. Some of the most intense and unique music I've ever heard. I doesn't have a "genre" I don't think.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, for your review coming from a beginners point of view to this type of equipment was very intriguing and also very humbling. I thought I knew a little bit about home audio, which I do, however you put into perspective on how little I really know. This is very exciting to me as I tend to Master and move on to the next hobby all too often withing a few years. You put this in perspective that this can be a life long hobby if you choose. Something I would love to do. I would love to have a neighbor like yourself and be able to pick your brain, even if it was for one evening. 

 Anyway, that is by far one of the best reviews I've ever read even if I only understood some of it (at least when it came to your equipment). It feels as though I came into this hobby at a perfect time in my life and your review got me very excited in many different ways. Can't wait to read it again! Cheers man. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow talk about a compliment. Thanks brother !!

 Peete.


----------



## Crikey

I actually like the first front panel. My main gripe is the symbol for volume. I just don't like the looks of the pictogram and would rather is stay as a word. Course I'm fine either way (and can live with any design change), the first one just looks more appealing to me.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_strictly off the topic : I hang around sometimes in Kingwa's Chinese forum and I must say they have one particular very good caricature artist.. so it was nice to see a Chinese caricature of Peete after his review came out..






 interesting .. wonder if it has any resemblance to Peete..._

 

Nope......pretty cool none the less !!! I'm getting close to the old five o but still look much younger than my actual age (so says the wife who insists on no facial hair, and she's the boss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).

 Peete.


----------



## SOUNDinterpreter

i was bored so i played around with csrocs idea. i took his template as well, hope you dont mind csroc. and i took the logo from the audio-gd website. i felt that the icons should be smaller, and i kinda like the whole 1-2-3 idea for the selector. and i also felt that the word "compass" should be in caps.


----------



## les_garten

This is an actual Photograph of PP.

 That's Prospector Peete, smoking his pipe and panning for Chinese Gold!

 .


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Superman logo? haha 

 Anywho I think I am leaning towards something like this personally.




_

 

Looks good, csroc. The spacing between the rear switches works.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WC Annihilus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How bout the Superman logo? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For the input selector, it is perfectly possible to make it icons, as USB has an icon and for the coaxial just have a pictogram of the connector and the optical be like, a square with a circle in the middle. Still, I think it would look better with letters_

 

Superman logo would be cool or maybe use one of the smiley Head-Fi'er emoticons to denote pure audio bliss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for whatever function is assigned. I was thinking along the same lines with using the USB symbol, coaxial with a circle and a dot in the middle, and optical using a a square with a dot or light rays inside. The front panel would have a very clean look.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crikey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My main gripe is the symbol for volume. I just don't like the looks of the pictogram and would rather is stay as a word._

 

Instead of a solid triangle, use a silhouette with a fine line. The line thickness should be consistent with the power, headphone, and selector icons.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SOUNDinterpreter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 i was bored so i played around with csrocs idea. i took his template as well, hope you dont mind csroc. and i took the logo from the audio-gd website. i felt that the icons should be smaller, and i kinda like the whole 1-2-3 idea for the selector. and i also felt that the word "compass" should be in caps._

 

This one looks nice, but IMHO would look better with Pictograms for the Inputs instead of Numbers, and an S inside a Diamond maybe for the Super button. The advantage of the Pictograms are Internationality. All caps in the Compass name look nice.

 Perhaps Kingwa could make extra Faceplates when all said is done and sell them as upgrades to those who would like to swap them out if that is possible. I would pay for one. Shipping would be cheap, and he would not have to worry about sales not progressing because of people waiting for the final final final version!

 .


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Instead of a solid triangle, use a silhouette with a fine line. The line thickness should be consistent with the power, headphone, and selector icons._

 

That's a good idea, I'll try that out. I think the line thickness on the other two icons may be a bit much as well so I'll play with them.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see that you felt we needed the 19db of gain setting, but recently lowered it to 15 ( which is just above the 13db of the lower gain setting we now have). Do you feel that an additional preamp would then be needed to use the Compass with a vinyl front end? I have lent out my vinyl set up to my brother so I cannot test it myself._

 

The Phono stage I used has two output gain levels. I used the higher output but I also feel most decent stages could easily make do with the lowered 15db max gain. I still only had the Compass volume to 11 o'clock position with plenty of travel left. So having thought about it and talked it over with Curra...the compromise of 9/15 seemed most logical.

 Peete.

 PS I took Sunday off and today is stat holiday in Canaduh...so we were all out in the Sunshine for a change. Nice change of pace considering this winter has been very snowy and cold up until last week. I'm now getting caught up with the thread. Part III writing starts in earnest Tuesday morning. At 12 pages it's the largest of 3 parts so have patience folks it's coming.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crikey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually like the first front panel. My main gripe is the symbol for volume. I just don't like the looks of the pictogram and would rather is stay as a word. Course I'm fine either way (and can live with any design change), the first one just looks more appealing to me. 




_

 

I'm also voting for Volume text here too, also seems more uniform to have pictograms on the left, text to the right.


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
*Perhaps Kingwa could make extra Faceplates when all said is done and sell them as upgrades to those who would like to swap them out if that is possible. I would pay for one. Shipping would be cheap, and he would not have to worry about sales not progressing because of people waiting for the final final final version!*

 ._

 

Best idea yet. That would probably be the easiest thing to do, that way people can get whatever version fits them best


----------



## Taikero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Superman logo? haha 

 Anywho I think I am leaning towards something like this personally.




_

 

I think 1-2-3 would be confusing as heck. I don't want to have to remember what number means what every time I want to switch outputs.

 Sorry for the following image sizes, BTW. I think having images like the ones below in place of words would fit the proposed theme of having no words on the front plate.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like others, I can't believe that we're discussing this, but I do think it's important to get right._

 

IMO, it's a very important discussion to have before the Compass goes prime-time. I would like to see Kingwa sell thousands of these units... 

 The first time I saw the frontal picture of the Compass I thought it looked like some type of DIY gear rather than a professional product intended to sell for several hundred dollars. Had I just seen the current exterior displayed on a site like audiophilechina I wouldn't have been compelled to research or buy it. Thankfully I was aware of the story cooking here. Kingwa's talent and dedication along with the valuable contributions of Curra, Peete, Tyson, Phewl and so many others here kept me interested and sold me. If I were responsible for sales, I would not assume that everyone interested in buying an amp/dac is going to find this thread and read it until their eyes bleed. IMO, the Compass could/should easily give a better first impression and do a better job of selling itself... 

 There aren't many controls or labels on the Compass, improving the cosmetics shouldn't be a very costly or time consuming endeavor. Csroc has already done a nice job refining the panel designs. The Compass sure seems to have the potential to be a HUGE seller. Additional attention to detail in the cosmetics should provide a worthwhile return on investment. Plus, it seems like a great opportunity to develop a consistent cosmetic theme that can be applied to other Audio-gd products(ie. ST-3, C-2C).

 There's a lot of quality, impressive looking gear available in the market. Not making simple cosmetic improvements could end up being much more costly in lost sales...


----------



## Chu

I personally prefer all text, but I know I'm in the minority here. I never really liked the volume icon on the Corda amps, so I prefer the text/icon split.

 I didn't even know there was an RCA icon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't know why, but that coax icon feels really off to me for some reason. Maybe something that resembles the connector a little better, like a Hexagon with a dot in the middle?

 Not having the "super" button labeled with anything is probably a mistake though. Really "super" starts to make more sense if it truly is customizable.


----------



## csroc

Make yer own front panel if you want icons for the selector then, I'm just offering some ideas. 






 I prefer it this way, either one works for me.

 I will be emailing some of these to Kingwa just to give him an idea of what's going on.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

I felt left out so I came up with this logo. 







 I don't see it as being that big of a deal. I ordered mine all ready and can't wait till the next shipment goes out.

 Great review pete.

 Crikey those look great.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Taikero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think 1-2-3 would be confusing as heck. I don't want to have to remember what number means what every time I want to switch outputs.

 Sorry for the following image sizes, BTW. I think having images like the ones below in place of words would fit the proposed theme of having no words on the front plate.
_

 






 USB Symbol


 .


----------



## les_garten

Coax Symbol


 .


----------



## les_garten

Optical Symbol

 .


----------



## decayed.cell

I suppose pictograms only would negate any font selection issues lol


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps Kingwa could make extra Faceplates when all said is done and sell them as upgrades to those who would like to swap them out if that is possible. I would pay for one. Shipping would be cheap, and he would not have to worry about sales not progressing because of people waiting for the final final final version!_

 

Some stuff is already glued to the faceplate so that won't be easy to do.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it would be a good idea if we vote on font or something, the goal being a clean look like an Apple product with the Headamp GS-1 being a benchmark for a clean, professional look that would appeal worldwide. Yes, I am shallow, yes little imperfections in the look have a damaging effect on my mental evaluation of the product - it's simple chemicals as one person said. One can easily number something 1-10 based on how it looks compared to a standard, and the Compass is not quite a 10 yet despite being a darn good first shot.

 The last word about Apple is that while many like to hate on its price, the company's attitude/arrogance, the software, the fact it isn't a PC, whatever...you cannot complain about the physical appearance of the products, they are engineered to perfection, especially the computers/laptops, and that's the sort of clean look that Kingwa should shoot for._

 

The Compass looks better than apple products and the Headamp GS-1.


----------



## Sganzerla

I'm all for symbols!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some stuff is already glued to the faceplate so that won't be easy to do._

 

RATS!!

 Can you elaborate? Like LED maybe, that wouldn't slow me down.


  Quote:


 The Compass looks better than apple products and the Headamp GS-1.


----------



## csroc

You guys will _never_ be happy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm emailing some of what I've got to Kingwa.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm all for symbols!_

 

IMHO Symbols only would make a bold statement and be totally different than anything else out there. Extremeely Kewl!!

 Reminds me of my first German car when my family lived in Germany. Every control was Pictograms (NSU RO-80).


 .


----------



## dBs

If I were Kingwa, I would be glad that this is whats being debated here. Its a hell of a lot better than "this thing sounds horrible, this is how it should sound", etc. The small details means all the big details were done right. Dont worry about his feelings, were doing exactly what he asked of us (and then some XD). These suggestions have been great so far.

 I like the symbols but does the supplier have the capability of programming in these symbols? If not then its a moot point =X

 Depending on the cost, I would be interested in the upgrade option for an alternative face plate down the road or in the next batch. Problem is if he HAS to buy them in quantities of 80, then he has 160 of these plates. Theres also the risk of everyone wanting the new plates and paying for them, then that leaves Kingwa stuck with 80 old ones that were paid for and never got used.

 As far as ordering is concerned, I want to place the order ASAP since Ill be flying off for grad school interviews mid March and it would be nice to have it arrive before I fly out for the week, maybe take it with me or burn it in the entire time Im gone. I know hes taking orders now but I would really just assume order it once orders officially open up completely. Dont know if I should be "polite" like that or just do it.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMHO Symbols only would make a bold statement and be totally different than anything else out there. Extremeely Kewl!!

 ._

 

Ditto, big time. The symbols done well could be stunning...

 I also like that idea of putting COMPASS in caps. Giving the "Audio-gd COMPASS" branding a little more size and/or weight could provide some additional strength and sizzle...


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I felt left out so I came up with this logo. 





_

 

That with Compass in caps would look very nice


----------



## bobsmith

Just a random idea. Maybe icons representing the shape of the jacks could be used for the sources. Here is my very rough 5 minute sketch (for illustration only). Apologies for the crappy quality, all I have on this PC is powerpoint to draw with.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_RATS!!

 Can you elaborate? Like LED maybe, that wouldn't slow me down._

 

Yes, it's only the led that is glued to the faceplate.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This one looks nice, but IMHO would look better with Pictograms for the Inputs instead of Numbers, and an S inside a Diamond maybe for the Super button. The advantage of the Pictograms are Internationality. All caps in the Compass name look nice._

 


 "S inside a Diamond" would be cool. Ditto with the all caps. Staying on the theme of symbols and icons, have a compass symbol after the COMPASS name or angled 45 degrees clockwise in place of the big "O". Do we have a graphics artist in the house?!







  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know why, but that coax icon feels really off to me for some reason. Maybe something that resembles the connector a little better, like a Hexagon with a dot in the middle?

 Not having the "super" button labeled with anything is probably a mistake though. Really "super" starts to make more sense if it truly is customizable._

 

I concur. The coaxial symbol with the pitchfork looks odd. Plus, it doesn't scale well being so tall. The optical symbol is usable though a square border is more intuitive.


----------



## Telix

This might be a really dumb question but I'm having a hard time figuring this out... if I'm in the market for a new DAC/AMP, should I just pull the trigger on this now? Should I be waiting for a new version or something? Since I have a Ray Samuels Hornet, should I just get a good standalone DAC and send the signal to the amp?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a random idea. Maybe icons representing the shape of the jacks could be used for the sources. Here is my very rough 5 minute sketch (for illustration only). Apologies for the crappy quality, all I have on this PC is powerpoint to draw with.




_

 

Interesting idea. Technically the Compass has a type B USB, not that which is a type A.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This might be a really dumb question but I'm having a hard time figuring this out... if I'm in the market for a new DAC/AMP, should I just pull the trigger on this now? Should I be waiting for a new version or something? Since I have a Ray Samuels Hornet, should I just get a good standalone DAC and send the signal to the amp?_

 

The upgraded version with the same external design will be ready within a couple weeks I imagine. There will be a cosmetic redesign later, but I don't know when that would be coming out. 

 Kingwa has given me the go-ahead on working out these designs so shortly I suspect I'll ask for some serious voting or something to decide which direction we want to go with things.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Here is my solution for the fonts....make sure the next batch of face plates, the descriptions are placed perfectly ...that's it, no change of font size,style or anything else .

 I want the Compass, oddly enough, to look like an Audio-gd product not something from Tag MacClaren or Musical Fidelity or Apple (of all things ...not Apple).

 It seems simple enough.....

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

I would prefer that the current font is kept as well. I also don't want to change the Audio-gd cursive font. I don't mind some symbols on the front panel like power and the headphone jack and _maybe_ volume but I think the font is nice and there needs to be enough on the front to tie it to the back.

 Also there will likely be some sort of silkscreening or label on the underside of the lid in the redesign to explain jumpers and OPA installation, so font wise that would hopefully be the same.

 On that note here is another mockup added to the current collection of front panel designs.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting idea. Technically the Compass has a type B USB, not that which is a type A._

 

I thought about that too. The problem is that the Type B jack looks a bit too much like the optical jack. The other thing is that I think when most people visualize USB they either think of the Type A or the Mini-B, not the regular type B. So it seemed that Type A is more suitable for a logo.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csommers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That with Compass in caps would look very nice
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

"Audio-gd" script is already unique and appears like it does on all products made by them (with a chassis). It's their "trademark" name so to speak and as such cannot be altered in any way, for obvious reasons I would think.

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Peete I actually asked Kingwa if he could send me the original vector drawing for the Compass design. He's going to be sending it to me (shortly I believe).


----------



## D.C.

csroc thanks for the work man. personaly i dont care about the front but the back looks sexy.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I think making sure the current font is lined up properly is good enough and perfectly acceptable.

 That's my last comment on fonts etc....

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

I wasn't terribly concerned myself Peete and remain happy with the current look, however I do know that for many people the appearance of a product is of big importance. While I'm certainly no designer I'm trying to give Kingwa another idea that he can look at for the final-final Compass.

 Font line-up is definitely something I'm addressing with my design, but I also wanted to try to find a way to nicely organize the additional things on the back panel. (Preamp outs, preamp and gain switches)


----------



## les_garten

How about this one?







 .


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about this one?






 ._

 

Les,

 This is my favorite one yet... but since I did not get a chance yet... GREAT job csroc!! You have really made the layout ideas come alive! This is such a nice product, it really does deserve to look as great as it sounds.


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Les,

 This is my favorite one yet... but since I did not get a chance yet... GREAT job csroc!! You have really made the layout ideas come alive! This is such a nice product, it really does deserve to look as great as it sounds._

 

+1 on the latest layout, love the looks of the symbols. Great job!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Les,

 This is my favorite one yet... but since I did not get a chance yet... GREAT job csroc!! You have really made the layout ideas come alive! This is such a nice product, it really does deserve to look as great as it sounds._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csommers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_+1 on the latest layout, love the looks of the symbols. Great job!_

 


 We need a "Super" Pictogram. Something Clean and simple. I would think a square turned 90 degrees to be a Diamond with an S in the Center.

 .


----------



## techfreakazoid

Looks good. The rear panel should have matching symbols otherwise, the optical symbol looks like the actual USB connector.

 Actually, the optical jack is traditionally flat on top (not with the cut corners) so the optical symbol is upside down. Can't tell from the pics if the rear jack on the Compass was implemented with the flat side on top.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csommers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_+1 on the latest layout, love the looks of the symbols. Great job!_

 

Same here, it's looking really, really sharp...

 Wasn't there a suggestion for a diamond, compass or some type of icon for the super/custom button? It would add to the consistency and be helpful in future discussions and product documentation. Otherwise, there will be countless references to the ambiguous "unlabled button"...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete I actually asked Kingwa if he could send me the original vector drawing for the Compass design. He's going to be sending it to me (shortly I believe)._

 

I'm cool with that...I just think we should keep this as cost effective as possible. 

 Realignment of current fonts would be the least costly solution that would be perfectly acceptable to me is all.

 Peete.


----------



## edselfordfong

What if the selector switch were rotated 180 degrees, so that the input symbols could be on the same line as everything else?


----------



## Sganzerla

What do you think?

 Off course a instruction guide is somewhat needed (and it is in my list of recomendations to Kingwa by the way), hope the authors don't mind:


----------



## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Off course a instruction guide is somewhat needed (and it is in my list of recomendations to Kingwa by the way), hope the authors don't mind_

 

Since this is turning into a community project of sorts, someone here really could write up a nice instruction guide, maybe even with a bit beyond the basics too (topology, etc.).

 Most of the Chinese hi-fi equipment I've seen has god awful manuals and it's another small thing that would make a large impression on a new owner.

 Re : what do you think -- I'm sort of curious what this looks like with the AudioGD logo. I have a feeling that probably is not up for redesign. Also super-nit-picky, but the RCA logo would probably look better with a thinner circle. To my eyes that extremely bold pitch really stands out from every other logo on the box. Same for the optical "dot" in the center, it's really bold compared to the rest of the symbols.


----------



## csroc

My current crop of designs.






 All my original vector files are to scale (life size), so whatever changes we want will probably need to be applied to them. I'm thinking about how to do a compass logo or some other kind of logo for the Super button although I don't really think it needs to be labeled necessarily.


----------



## dBs

I like the first two.


----------



## les_garten

How about this one?








 .


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What if the selector switch were rotated 180 degrees, so that the input symbols could be on the same line as everything else?_

 

That sounds like a good idea, it would further improve the visual consistency and flow...


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about this one?









 ._

 

The logo for the super button is too dominating.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The logo for the super button is too dominating._

 

It's a "Super" Button!

 .


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a "Super" Button!

 ._

 

Haha
 Maybe try making it with a little thinner lines, or smaller? It looks too bold right now


----------



## edselfordfong

I like csroc's pictograms a little better. They seem cleaner and more consistent with each other. The diamond s looks nice, but should be smaller, I think.

 Does no one else think that putting all the symbols or text on the same level makes sense? Wouldn't it be simple to rotate the switch?


----------



## csroc

Well I guess we have a different taste in design 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think a big flashy symbol would seem a bit out of place on the Compass.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like csroc's pictograms a little better. They seem cleaner and more consistent with each other. The diamond s looks nice, but should be smaller, I think.

 Does no one else think that putting all the symbols or text on the same level makes sense? Wouldn't it be simple to rotate the switch?_

 

It might be simple, I'll have to play with it to see it it looks OK


----------



## Toe Tag

What file format is King-wa sending you, what "vector format" does he hand off to the front panel manufacturer? You could provide it to him in that format. 

 Also I'm not sure its worth moving the locations of the controls. This would be more of an expense than he signed up for, involve changing the PCB layout, right? And it would make it impossible to sell front panel upgrade to existing owners.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about this one?





_

 


 les, csroc, can you use the diamond outline like the Superman logo and go with a regular "S"?







 Or as a second choice, go with a trace outline of the Shazam! superhero lightning bolt:

http://superherouniverse.com/art/data/503/Shazam.jpg


----------



## csroc

None of the changes in position apply to anything that is PCB mounted, as far as I know the only PCB mounted components are the volume and the digital inputs. Everything else I've positioned is panel mounted.

 As far as file format, I will be handing it off to Kingwa in a vector format.

 Here's an updated icon design with a simple switch symbol for the Super button.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Have any of you asked Kingwa if this raise's the overall cost per chassis ?

 Peete.


----------



## scootermafia

A cross between Les and Csroc's are good. The bold is is great, just reduce its size and boldness so it's more like the other icons, and it's a done deal.

 Edit: This is starting to be the same idea as Meier's stuff - their excessive hieroglyphics make my brain happy. Mmm, tiny pictures. At the level of the Symphony, the pictures become overwhelming and you need a field manual to interpret them.


----------



## les_garten

Another, less Super one!






 .


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like csroc's pictograms a little better. They seem cleaner and more consistent with each other. The diamond s looks nice, but should be smaller, I think.

 Does no one else think that putting all the symbols or text on the same level makes sense? Wouldn't it be simple to rotate the switch?_

 

Yeah, the symbols should all be of the same scale.

 I think the idea of putting the selector symbols on the bottom sounds great, it's definitely worth trying to see how it looks....


----------



## WC Annihilus

I think I would prefer a "super" icon for the front button as some people will want it custom for either pre-amp or gain


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have any of you asked Kingwa if this raise's the overall cost per chassis ?

 Peete._

 

He hasn't said anything about it. No additional holes will be drilled aside from what he's already adding (preamp and gain stuff).

 I don't know whether this will affect the cost of silk screening or not, but he was open to changing just about all of it based on what the collective group wants. I'm still trying to keep any "snazzy-ness" to a minimum and make it plain and simple.


----------



## scootermafia

I vote for Les_garten's latest one.


----------



## csroc

OK I made one with Les's super icon idea


----------



## Joeoboe

I keep watching this process... and the designs get better with each generation. You guys are awesome... I think we are very close to classy, elegant, yet simple design.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another, less Super one!






 ._

 

That looks good and interesting. I think it should be seriously considered. It could help piques interest in people that see the amp for the first time, they will be curious as to what capabilities the button provides...


----------



## Joeoboe

What if the input icons were UNDER the selector switch...


----------



## csroc

And here's my final rear panel design. I don't really expect to be changing things on this, it's the front that deserves the most attention.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And here's my final rear panel design. I don't really expect to be changing things on this, it's the front that deserves the most attention.




_

 

I think this is just perfect. Really really nice layout!!


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What if the input icons were UNDER the selector switch..._

 

Yes indeed, I too was expecting that when the suggestion of flipping it 180 degress was raised....


----------



## csroc

and with the icons on the bottom


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes indeed, I too was expecting that when the suggestion of flipping it 180 degress was raised...._

 

I thought that was what you meant! I think it might be the best layout... but since I am not using any graphics software , I am hoping Les or csroc will mock it up.


----------



## WC Annihilus

You know, I just realized the back panel is gonna look a bit odd for those who choose to have their front button customed... Ah well, not like you'll be looking back there too often


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And here's my final rear panel design. I don't really expect to be changing things on this, it's the front that deserves the most attention.




_

 

Hey csroc, I just woke up and its amazing to see a transformed Compass plates, really looks good.. honestly some folks in here should open up a company, I am sure you would do damn well.. 
 Only hope its cost effective for Kingwa too..
 Btw, its good we haven't touched the logo part, after all its his company and he should have the final say on the logo of Audio GD..
 All said and done, I still dont feel like parting with Compass to get these changes done, but I am glad for the people who would get the updated and upgraded version..

 Bravo !

 EDIT - Seems like as long as you don't touch the logo part - kingwa has no problems whatsoever incorporating these changes.. here you go... great job csroc and all !!


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and with the icons on the bottom




_

 

OK... the last one is my FAVORITE! You are my hero csroc!


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and with the icons on the bottom




_

 

Can you adjust them a little so they're not riding so close to the selector, yet not too distant?


----------



## csroc

I can, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I actually like them to the left myself.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Csroc those are all great designs, I like the one with the symbols lined up on the bottom.


----------



## Toe Tag

You guys are great. Does this thing have a name yet? If its called "Compass mk II" I suggest they sell "Compass Faceplate, front, mk II" and "Compass Faceplate, rear, mk II" on the price list. Otherwise we're all going to be playing musical chairs waiting for the 40 "Compass mk II with old Compass faceplate" to sell out before we order. If I knew I could just upgrade the old faceplate if I end up hating it, I'd just order the sucker now and take my chances. And also probably some owners of the mk I would want to upgrade the outside.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

On second thought, after looking at the layouts again I like the one with the symbols on the left of the selector switch, seems to be more balanced, with all of them lined up on the bottom is seems, well bottom heavy.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I actually like them to the left myself._

 

Adjusting/dropping them a few pixels(especially the optical icon) could help provide the nice spacing that the other icons have.

 Really, the left? IMO, having them on the left kind of interrupts the great consistency and flow that's developing...


----------



## meusickfrek

Can anyone tell me how the DAC modules are similar/different to a zapfilter? Not just in how they sound but if they are the same thing. I also read two different comments (yes i'm trying to read this whole thread) on the medium sized board, is it for power supply or part of the discrete analog DAC? One more thing, are there any changes in the making or can I go ahead and order, email to audio-gd right?


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since this is turning into a community project of sorts, someone here really could write up a nice instruction guide, maybe even with a bit beyond the basics too (topology, etc.).

 Most of the Chinese hi-fi equipment I've seen has god awful manuals and it's another small thing that would make a large impression on a new owner_

 

I agree with this big time being a beginner and all. I honestly don't know how to hook this up to my stereo. A well done manual is ALWAYS appreciated.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a "Super" Button!

 ._

 

Dude, this made me laugh way out loud. I almost had Mt. Dew come out my nose. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have any of you asked Kingwa if this raise's the overall cost per chassis ?

 Peete._

 

It shouldn't add anything to the price whatsoever. I use to do silk screen ages ago, and it's not the actually transfer that cost very much (whether you have one or 15 items to transfer of the same color on the same item it should cost the same), but it's the initial cost of set up and making new screens or plates. 

 Anytime something is changed you need to make a new or addition screen or plate depending on the type of screening process used. This can be anywhere from $50-$150 USD per screen or "template" (just an broad estimate), and is a one time charge unless they need to order more of the same thing down the road, then there is just a jig setup fee of say $50 bucks. Hope that makes sense.

 By the way csroc, these are really starting to take shape and look very good! Great job!


----------



## Joeoboe

Actually... this entire batch is quite nice... bottom or left side selector icons... My last observation, although it is SLIGHTLY large, I prefer Les' optical icon.


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I actually like them to the left myself._

 

Same here, IMHO that looks really nice, otherwise it looks cluttered when everything is on the bottom


----------



## edselfordfong

Great work, csroc. The back panel looks terrific. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you adjust them a little so they're not riding so close to the selector, yet not too distant?_

 

or, what if you put them all on the same line, not on an arc? So that all the symbols were on the same line?

 Also, would it be too difficult to invert the image so that we can see what it looks like in a black panel and white text/symbols?


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I actually like them to the left myself._

 

I like them on the left as well. It's a tad cluttered with them all on the bottom plus might be difficult to see the selector switch icons under a knob like that.


----------



## Toe Tag

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While it's hard to describe the degree of difference between the two units, if we rate an iPod at 5 and my Northstar at 100, the Nakamichi Dragon DAC gets 120, the Lavry DA-10 and Benchmark DAC 1 come in at 95, the Zero DAC (stock) would be about 60 and the Compass would be an 80.

 This is a good example of the law of diminishing returns. I'd say I was quite right that to get a significant upgrade from the Compass, you'd need to spend somewhere around the $1000 mark, which is what the Benchmark and Lavry cost. There are still quite a few DACs which fall in between, however. Audio-gd's Ref 3 DAC at under $800 will predicably beat it too, not to mention their other DACs that use a multi-bit DA processor._

 

I think it would be interesting for this and other tests to be done single or double blind, that is, have your friend keep the equipment behind a black curtain or under a cloth, with just the headphone cord coming out, so that the tester never knows the brand or cost of the unit under audition. I mean, they do something like this when symphonies interview soloists, they put them behind a curtain. That's how they do the subwoofers here http://tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11 Granted the judges can figure it out eventually, but I think keeping them blind for a while opens up some new objective insights.

 No offense intended. In fact I find your numeric rankings to be the most useful, because you can easily slot in new DACs as they get tested, and as you say it provides a sense of "how big a gap"... for how much money.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_






 Csroc those are all great designs, I like the one with the symbols lined up on the bottom._

 

I like the looks of your logo/branding work too.

 I agree that the branding should carry some tasteful extra weight/emphasis....


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csommers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here, IMHO that looks really nice, otherwise it looks cluttered when everything is on the bottom_

 

are these images the actual size? It might not look cluttered if its larger.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csommers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here, IMHO that looks really nice, otherwise it looks cluttered when everything is on the bottom_

 

Agreed. Even at "life size" it looks a bit cluttered, plus in my head those serve a different purpose than the other icons.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WC Annihilus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know, I just realized the back panel is gonna look a bit odd for those who choose to have their front button customed... Ah well, not like you'll be looking back there too often_

 

You know, I forgot about that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ultimately the majority of people wanted the bypass feature on the front, so the rear panel makes sense. And if people want the switches customized only the rear panel will look "weird." I think it's a case of do you use stickers for everyone or offer the most professional look (silkscreened) for the majority of users with some sort of sticker to indicate the feature change on the rear switches where needed.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK I made one with Les's super icon idea




_

 

Oh goodness, I wake up and there's seven more pages of Compass thread! And I was trying to keep out of the cosmetics discussion...

 Great job though Csroc! You must be quite handy with Illustrator already to come up with these so quickly.

 I now have one serious practical problem with the last version though. I don't think putting the icons of the selector knob beneath that knob will work. Most people will have the Compass sitting on a desk or similar. That will mean that you'll be looking at it from above and the selector knob will actually obscure some of the icons.


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_are these images the actual size? It might not look cluttered if its larger._

 

I'm fairly certain that it's of proper size, exactly in fact.


----------



## csroc

When it comes time to vote I'll put all the final designs together.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I now have one serious practical problem with the last version though. I don't think putting the icons of the selector knob beneath that knob will work. Most people will have the Compass sitting on a desk or similar. That will mean that you'll be looking at it from above and the selector knob will actually obscure some of the icons._

 

I don't like them on the bottom either, personally. As I've mentioned I like them to the left. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm fairly certain that it's of proper size, exactly in fact._

 

Depends on your display resolution & size. What you see on your screen is not scaled properly. The illustrator file on my computer is measured as best I can with a digital caliper to match the panels on the Compass and certain dimensions are taken from Kingwa's design files.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't like them on the bottom either, personally. As I've mentioned I like them to the left._

 

As it happens, I have the Compass sitting on my desk to my left. I just realised that if the icons were on the left side of the knob I couldn't see them at all from where I sit. I will admit that it looks good (although not necessarily better than just putting them on top).


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 When it comes time to vote I'll put all the final designs together._

 

Wow! Both of those are beautiful. Nice optical icon too! I would be very happy with either of them.


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Depends on your display resolution & size. What you see on your screen is not scaled properly. The illustrator file on my computer is measured as best I can with a digital caliper to match the panels on the Compass and certain dimensions are taken from Kingwa's design files._

 

Of coarse, I didn't even take that into consideration. Thanks for the reminder. Regardless, I really like the top one with the icons/symbols to the left. Looks excellent, again great job!


----------



## D.C.

its killin me i cant post my 2 designs. 1 of them is with the volume icon at the top and the other one was everything at the bottom but csroc did it already. 
 Thank you guys you are the best


----------



## B00MERS00NER

functionally and aesthetically the best layout might be with the symbols on top of the selector 

 they are really nice designs either way.

 drosera what headphones you pair with the compass?


----------



## D.C.

csroc pls do one with the usb, coax., opt. and volume at the top.
 thanks and sorry if i am asking too much, you might be bussy


----------



## D.C.

i used your old disign in 'MS paint' but i couldnt paste it


----------



## les_garten

Looks like I'm gonna be buyin' some Faceplates in the future if this goes through. I like the Pictograms. Has Kingwa said anything about whether you'll be able to Purchase just the faceplates?

 .


----------



## D.C.

le*S* thanks for the *S* lol


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_drosera what headphones you pair with the compass?_

 

(Gear is in profile!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 I use Grado SR-325i, Beyerdynamic DT880 (2005/250ohm) and AKG K500, but in daily use the last ones get 95% of the listening time because I still have a problem with finding the right amp for the Grado's and I'm starting to hate the DT880 with a passion.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 When it comes time to vote I'll put all the final designs together._

 

Wow, great work!! IMO, it's looking really impressive. Both appear very clean, intelligent, and professional...really slick


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like I'm gonna be buyin' some Faceplates in the future if this goes through. I like the Pictograms. Has Kingwa said anything about whether you'll be able to Purchase just the faceplates?

 ._

 

Beats me!

 Pardon the bigness of this but consider it everything rolled in to one.






 This has both Les's "super" switch and my "super" switch, everything else is pretty self explanatory


----------



## Joeoboe

Here is a negative of 2 of csroc designs...
 I could only send as attachment...


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(Gear is in profile!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)_

 

hey, I learned something new again today!

 I'm new to all this myself, I've got a pair of Denon D5000 on the way and a compass on order - heard the D's do well with a SS amp.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like I'm gonna be buyin' some Faceplates in the future if this goes through. I like the Pictograms. Has Kingwa said anything about whether you'll be able to Purchase just the faceplates?

 ._

 

I don't see a reason why it would be a problem, but a close look at the design above and the Compass sitting beside me, there seems to be more gap between the Volume and selector knobs than the selector and super button, if fact the difference is twice as much..

 So I feel putting the signs of selector on the left of the knob will look cluttered, secondly if Kingwa evens out the gap, then it will be problem with the test version to have new face plate - I might be wrong I havent opened up the Compass to see if Kingwa needs to work on the board to make the gap even or like it looks in the proposed design..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Beats me!

 Pardon the bigness of this but consider it everything rolled in to one.

 [SNIPPED PIC]

 This has both Les's "super" switch and my "super" switch, everything else is pretty self explanatory_

 

So, is it time for one last poll?


----------



## D.C.

csroc do one like N:3 but with volume at the top, pleas.
 Good job man


----------



## csroc

As far as I recall the selector uses a panel mounted rotary switch, so there is no issue with clearances on the board. I will double check that tomorrow.

 I moved the selector over 5 or 10mm (I forget) because I thought it looked unbalanced over to the left.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_csroc do one like N:3 but with volume at the top, pleas.
 Good job man_

 

Like this?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I feel putting the signs of selector on the left of the knob will look cluttered, secondly if Kingwa evens out the gap, then it will be problem with the test version to have new face plate - I might be wrong I havent opened up the Compass to see if Kingwa needs to work on the board to make the gap even or like it looks in the proposed design.._

 

No problem there, I thing, on the front only the Volume knob is integrated with the board.

 Oh yeah, is it too late to use Les's 'optical icon' instead? I liked that magic wand thingy.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I recall the selector uses a panel mounted rotary switch, so there is no issue with clearances on the board. I will double check that tomorrow.

 I moved the selector over 5 or 10mm (I forget) because I thought it looked unbalanced over to the left._

 

If for some reason it is determined that the knobs cannot be moved, putting the input icons to the right might look good and be balanced.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey, I learned something new again today!

 I'm new to all this myself, I've got a pair of Denon D5000 on the way and a compass on order - heard the D's do well with a SS amp._

 

Sensitive things those (low impedance). You'll be grateful for the lowered gain in the version you'll be getting.


----------



## D.C.

csroc thanks man...ones again thank you for bringing order to this forum...lol


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a negative of 2 of csroc designs...
 I could only send as attachment..._

 

Thanks Joe, it's looking REALLY cool in black...


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If for some reason it is determined that the knobs cannot be moved, putting the input icons to the right might look good and be balanced._

 

I see what you mean






 That could work.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see what you mean






 That could work._

 

Those might be my favorite... and it would allow easy panel upgrades if that is offered!
 Really nice balance... I am surprised how good it looks!


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Beats me!

 Pardon the bigness of this but consider it everything rolled in to one.






 This has both Les's "super" switch and my "super" switch, everything else is pretty self explanatory_

 

I really like #2 the best with the symbols on the bottom. IMO, there is enough space between the controls that it looks well grouped with great flow and not cluttered. Maybe sliding the source selector to the left a few mm's would make it look even better. It looks like the most clean and efficient interface to me. It looks really cool on Joe's inverse/black version too...


----------



## D.C.

i like the look as well but wont it be a bit awkward cause a persons fingers will block the icons


----------



## D.C.

i agree number 2 is nice


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i like the look as well but wont it be a bit awkward cause a persons fingers will block the icons_

 

I am not certain which design you are referring to... but I can imagine your fingers would block icons on all of the designs.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i like the look as well but wont it be a bit awkward cause a persons fingers will block the icons_

 

Yeah, we shouldn't fixate on looks too much. The old design was practical, we shouldn't sacrifice practicality for looks.

 Please people, in your choices, try to imagine putting the Compass where you will have it sitting in your house. Try to imagine switching between selections and the like. Only then vote on the thing that would work best for you.


----------



## oldschool

I say keep the labels on the input selector and the bypass. The front panel is becoming ridiculously symbolic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Use symbols only for volume, power and earphones


----------



## csroc

Right now I'm just collecting ideas. There will be a poll (tomorrow probably) with quite a few choices.

 Does everyone basically prefer the diamond-S logo for the super switch?


----------



## sandchak

I guess this would come of help..








 Csroc, Do you think it would be problem aligning the Selector knob??..


----------



## csroc

I don't think so, it looks like there's clearance to move it over. I'll open my Compass for a better look tomorrow.


----------



## Joeoboe

The cabling is pretty tight there... don't see 10mm of slack. Of course, there are solutions like longer wires...but that would make it complicated for old to new panel upgrades.


----------



## D.C.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not certain which design you are referring to... but I can imagine your fingers would block icons on all of the designs._

 

sorry joeoboe i was referring to yours but you are right...i need to go to sleep its 6 in the morning


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does everyone basically prefer the diamond-S logo for the super switch?_

 

It's certainly likeable. But it might be quite difficult to explain to complete newcomers. First you have to explain what the symbol stands for, than why "Super". Just putting "Super" there might at least save one step in the explanation.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The cabling is pretty tight there... don't see 10mm of slack. Of course, there are solutions like loger wires...but that would make it complicated for old to new panel upgrades._

 

True... my intentions behind the design weren't for old->new panel upgrades tough.

 I suppose that might be an argument for leaving the selector where it is.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's certainly likeable. But it might be quite difficult to explain to complete newcomers. First you have to explain what the symbol stands for, than why "Super". Just putting "Super" there might at least save one step in the explanation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well the only alternative I have now is the standard "switch" diagram that I created. I haven't seen anything else that I wanted to incorporate that wasn't too gaudy or something.

 I'm not sure Super is any better than an S in a diamond though. Both are pretty vauge if you haven't been following along.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

here they are with them on the right


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, we shouldn't fixate on looks too much. The old design was practical, we shouldn't sacrifice practicality for looks._

 

IMO, the old design needed some definite polish and improvement. These new designs look really slick and are the epitome of being practical.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think so, it looks like there's clearance to move it over. I'll open my Compass for a better look tomorrow._

 

yeah right, you deserve some rest now.. but just looking at the internal pic of Compass, it just reminds me how neatly the Compass is built internally.. add them to the exteriors you guys have come up with - is like an icing on the cake - Compass to me is already a winner as it is, add the rest and you have an invincible gear !!.. at least the price we are looking at..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, the old design needed some definite polish and improvement. These new designs look really slick and are the epitome of being practical._

 

I don't know. I think most people are now deciding on this in a two-dimensional view. Actually having the thing sitting next to you will make you realise that there are important three-dimensional aspects to using the Compass knobs. Those things are really big and stick out quite a bit.

 Time will tell, I guess.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The front panel is becoming ridiculously symbolic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I can see your point, but at the same time I see how clean and forward thinking it looks. English is supposed to be the "universal language" for business, this design is truly language independent for anyone.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's certainly likeable. But it might be quite difficult to explain to complete newcomers. First you have to explain what the symbol stands for, than why "Super". Just putting "Super" there might at least save one step in the explanation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The function of the super button will need to be fully explained/documented regardless if the label "super" or a symbol is used.

 I prefer Les's version of the super symbol. It has more visual definition/strength than other symbol.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I say keep the labels on the input selector and the bypass. The front panel is becoming ridiculously symbolic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Use symbols only for volume, power and earphones_

 

That was my original plan. Everyone wanted symbols though. Symbols. Symbols. Symbols.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know. I think most people are now deciding on this in a two-dimensional view. Actually having the thing sitting next to you will make you realise that there are important three-dimensional aspects to using the Compass knobs. Those things are really big and stick out quite a bit.

 Time will tell, I guess._

 

Fortunately I've got a Compass sitting to my right that I can look at. 

 I think that because the selector and volume knobs stick out as far as they do, most people would have a tough time seeing the symbols for the selector (or the text, whatever) on the bottom of the knob unless their Compass is up fairly high. That being said the controls are intuitive enough that they could work regardless of where the labeling is.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can see your point, but at the same time I see how clean and forward thinking it looks. English is supposed to be the "universal language" for business, this design is truly language independent for anyone._

 

All for symbols here too. It's interesting that Les_Garten related his first experience with a German car where everything was indicated with symbols. I recently had exactly the reverse experience when sitting in an American car, where I was surprised to see that everything was indicated with abbreviations of English words. That German car was meant for the international market, the American one only for people who speak "American".


----------



## csroc

Agreed Drosera, the symbolic labeling has grown on me and at this point I think I prefer it. Anyone can probably make sense of them (well, except Super) if they've seen computers or other electronics with the symbols or have seen an optical jack, etc.

 Anyway, I'm done with Illustrator and any major thought for now. I'll probably be surfing here and elsewhere until I call it a night.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fortunately I've got a Compass sitting to my right that I can look at. 

 I think that because the selector and volume knobs stick out as far as they do, most people would have a tough time seeing the symbols for the selector (or the text, whatever) on the bottom of the knob unless their Compass is up fairly high. That being said the controls are intuitive enough that they could work regardless of where the labeling is._

 

Haha, I wasn't talking about you, of course. I meant the majority of people who will end up voting in the upcoming poll.

 I would just hate it when, at some point in the future, as others will be getting the Compass, some of them will be saying: "I wish they had designed this better."


----------



## csroc

I gotcha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm trying to design it better, I'm no designer and originally my interest was coming up with a neater front panel and an organized and neat back panel. Taking care of the back panel was straightforward (although a bit tedious) but the front panel is really the face and image of the device and people obviously care quite a bit about it.

 I'm a function over form guy, but I do like something that has taken that extra step to be designed reasonably well and that many people will value the appearance more than I. I'm sure you could hand this off to some great ergonomics/UI design guy and they'd come back with a masterpiece but at least by my own standards I've made many of the improvements _I_ want. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Of course Kingwa wouldn't let me just give him my favorite design right now without having a poll to get the community opinion first


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That was my original plan. Everyone wanted symbols though. Symbols. Symbols. Symbols._

 

I was intially in favor of the suggestion for a text and symbol combination too... 

 I'm really impressed with the way all of the symbols turned out. It looks very clean and efficient...


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I gotcha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm trying to design it better, I'm no designer and originally my interest was coming up with a neater front panel and an organized and neat back panel. Taking care of the back panel was straightforward (although a bit tedious) but the front panel is really the face and image of the device and people obviously care quite a bit about it.

 I'm a function over form guy, but I do like something that has taken that extra step to be designed reasonably well and that many people will value the appearance more than I. I'm sure you could hand this off to some great ergonomics/UI design guy and they'd come back with a masterpiece but at least by my own standards I've made many of the improvements I want. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Of course Kingwa wouldn't let me just give him my favorite design right now without having a poll to get the community opinion first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You're doing an amazing job here csroc. Hats off. 

 Of course, you could just send in your preferred design and _say_ it was the result of the poll.


----------



## scootermafia

I like the black mockup with the right side icons for the input selector. That one gets my vote.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like the black mockup with the right side icons for the input selector. That one gets my vote._

 

I'm liking that one a lot too, it might be my current favorite. It puts more silkscreening on the right which I think helps balance things a bit. It also means if someone does want to upgrade their front panel they don't have to move the selector switch.

 Don't worry, they'll all be black with white silkscreening. It's just easier on the ol' peepers and in working on it to just leave it inverted. Kingwa's design files are exactly the same way.

 Poll will go up tomorrow some time I think, I want to get the results to Kingwa soon so he has plenty of time before his meeting with the chassis builders.


----------



## Taikero

I thought of another option I hadn't seen yet. What about a "right angle" configuration for the selector? Start from left or top, and go clockwise 90 degrees to hit the third selection.


----------



## csroc

I admit I think they look a bit lopsided, but if there's more interest in that I can create some like that as well.


----------



## sandchak

considering the 50odd buyers that will have the choice of changing face plates if they wish later, and less or no internal changes - I think the one which has symbols on the right of the selector which balances the uneven gap between the selector - vol and super switch, would be the best compromise.. again just my thoughts..

 EDIT - Actually the sooner the poll starts the better. We will be over with this issue at least..


----------



## ExtraNice

Quick questions...
 I can use this as a USB DAC and H/P amp at the same time right?

 Also, what cables does this come with?


----------



## les_garten

Hello,
 Since there is a poll about to launch on this, my pick would be #3. The reason I like the Pictograms on the top is that the Pictogram Positions are easy to see whether high, Low, right, or Left. They are not obscured by your hand. If they are on the bottom and you reach for the knob, I don't feel you'll be able to see them well whether the Compass is on you right, left, center, etc. Sometimes symmetry is non functional. Sometimes Asymmetry is more Interesting. I think Ergonomics have a play here. The other consideration is to not cause undue expense on Kingwa to have to move things around, unless there is a lot to be gained from it. There's a good reason why those selector positions were on the top to begin with.

 I would also suggest that the Final pick sheet be Inverted color to look as much like the Compass face as possible, black background/white Symbols. We've all used Pretty things that didn't work well, so consider your pick carefully to make the Compass workable for the widest margin.

 As Forest would say, "And that's all I have to say about that"

 .


----------



## ExtraNice

Quick questions...
 I can use this as a USB DAC and H/P amp at the same time right?

 Also, what cables does this come with?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick questions...
 I can use this as a USB DAC and H/P amp at the same time right?

 Also, what cables does this come with?_

 

You can use the DAC with the headamp simultaneously and the same thing goes for using the DAC with the preamp function. You can even (I think, haven't tried it yet) use the DAC output and listen to something else via the headamp (fed by the analog inputs). Basically, you can do anything you want.

 It comes with a complete set of cables for all possible connections, but all of them are bog-standard. No problem in the case of the optical digital cable, the USB cable and the power cord. But if you will be using the analog interconnects or the digital coax, you might want to seek out upgrades for those as soon as possible.

 (A hint though, to you and others. Even if you don't want to read the whole thread, please check out the first post by Currawong at the beginning of the thread and the impressions and reviews it links to. If you have questions after reading those, we'll be happy to answer them.)


----------



## ExtraNice

Ohhh! 
 Thanks for the reply. I'm so tempted to buy one right now, especially with the special promotion. However, our Australian dollar is so weak right now.
 The webpage said that a new revision of the Compass is coming out soon.. what's being revised and should I hold out for the new version?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ohhh! 
 Thanks for the reply. I'm so tempted to buy one right now, especially with the special promotion. However, our Australian dollar is so weak right now.
 The webpage said that a new revision of the Compass is coming out soon.. what's being revised and should I hold out for the new version?_

 

I don't want to be unfriendly, but this question has been answered about a zillion times here already.
 In short, if you buy it you will get the new version, the older version was only sold to a handful of testers (like me) for evaluation.
 The new version will have a preamp function, a lowered gain so it's easier to use with more sensitive headphones and might also have some slight changes in the different settings you can use to change the brightness of the sound.
 All in all, not that much will change actually, it was already excellent to begin with.

 (EDIT: Oh yeah, and it will have new RCA sockets of the highest possible quality. Not that the ones it has now are anything to complain about.)


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS I took Sunday off and today is stat holiday in Canaduh...so we were all out in the Sunshine for a change. Nice change of pace considering this winter has been very snowy and cold up until last week. I'm now getting caught up with the thread. Part III writing starts in earnest Tuesday morning. At 12 pages it's the largest of 3 parts so have patience folks it's coming._

 

Cant be more deserving - Sunshine after the experience in the gaz station !!

 Anyway, the timing seems perfect, with the wave of exterior touches nearly reaching its conclusive stages - there will be a new wave of some serious review of Compass.. I like it..


----------



## ExtraNice

Quote:


 I don't want to be unfriendly, but this question has been answered about a zillion times here already. 
 

No, no. My fault for not reading. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My internet is so slow right now that these forum pages take a few minutes to load, or else I would have read the whole of this topic.
 But thanks for the info. Much appreciated. 

 Now to scrape up the money!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, no. My fault for not reading. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My internet is so slow right now that these forum pages take a few minutes to load, or else I would have read the whole of this topic.
 But thanks for the info. Much appreciated. 

 Now to scrape up the money!_

 

Slow connection is a decent excuse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good luck in saving up, hope you'll manage. It's completely worth it, probably the best investment you can make in headphone-equipment this year. (Which was Audio-gd's intention and I think they more than succeeded.)


----------



## therg

Quote:


 Headphone amp don't had OPA, it is all Discrete transistors compose!) 
 

Forgive me if I misread this from the audio-gd site but does this mean that the OPA is only utilized while using the rear RCA outputs and not the headphone jack? Been reading through this thread and I'm very interested in the compass just not sure what OPA I would get.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *therg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Forgive me if I misread this from the audio-gd site but does this mean that the OPA is only utilized while using the rear RCA outputs and not the headphone jack? Been reading through this thread and I'm very interested in the compass just not sure what OPA I would get._

 

Ehm, no it is like it says there. The headphone amp section doesn't have opamps in it.
 The discrete opamp (Sun, Moon or Earth) is part of the DAC section and will thus only be used if you feed it digital input (USB, optical or coax). So your choice of opamp will determine the sound of the DAC.


----------



## 8140david

The Compass seems great.
 But will it be significantly better than a Musical Fidelity V-Dac plus a Corda Arietta headphone amp, each being a highly regarded 200 euros product?
 Or will it be significantly better than one of them, the Dac or the Amp? I often use them independently of one another.
 I am quite happy of both, but I have no basis for comparison.
 "Though Shall Not Upgrade For Little Benefit."
 That's why in particular a higher-end Dac from Audio-gd, with usb input and RCA outputs might be welcome.


----------



## senn_liu

if it is definite that out of the 80 remaining units with the original chassis font/design, 40 will be for international buyers, then i believe they are going to sell out very quickly. based on what i know,

 1) there has been a confirmed order for 9 units from malaysia (lowyat forums)
 2) at least 2 people in singapore (including me) have ordered directly from kingwa
 3) jaben (shop in singapore) is going to place an order for 10 units very soon

 that's 21/40 of the units designated for international buyers going to just singapore+malaysia!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Compass seems great.
 But will it be significantly better than a Musical Fidelity V-Dac plus a Corda Arietta headphone amp, each being a highly regarded 200 euros product?
 Or will it be significantly better than one of them, the Dac or the Amp? I often use them independently of one another.
 I am quite happy of both, but I have no basis for comparison.
 "Though Shall Not Upgrade For Little Benefit."
 That's why in particular a higher-end Dac from Audio-gd, with usb input and RCA outputs might be welcome._

 

With regard to a high-end DAC with USB input. I must say I still would have reservations with regard to the sound quality you would get from a noisy environment like a computer. The fact that Kingwa doesn't include a USB input in his higher end DACs might indicate that he shares these reservations. But who knows, maybe the new DSP-1 module would be able to work miracles in cleaning up the signal from USB input. But it might be too late to incorporate it even in the Reference Three DAC (which is still in development), because it would mean redesigning the PCB.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if it is definite that out of the 80 remaining units with the original chassis font/design, 40 will be for international buyers, then i believe they are going to sell out very quickly. based on what i know,

 1) there has been a confirmed order for 9 units from malaysia (lowyat forums)
 2) at least 2 people in singapore (including me) have ordered directly from kingwa
 3) jaben (shop in singapore) is going to place an order for 10 units very soon

 that's 21/40 of the units designated for international buyers going to just singapore+malaysia!_

 

Yes its true that he will keep only 40 for International sales, so as to speed up the availability of upgraded Compass with changed exterior looks (fonts..etc) which seems to suit the International market, on the other hand I doubt he will sell to or through any shop unless its tied up with him in form of dealership or agency, reason being at this price which is really promotional he would like to concentrate on individual sales, maybe once the promotional price ends he would sell in bulk, in fact I would not be surprised if he decides not to sell more than one Compass to a single buyer - thats what I feel..

 EDIT- I'll make it a little clear as to why I feel like that and if I was kingwa, why I wouldn't do that : what if Jaben sells 4-5 Compass only and keeps the rest to sell after the promotional period is over, he would be making more than 90% profit, now in the situation with economic crises, I think thats a huge profit for an investment for 3-4 months.. and if anyone deserves that profit then it is Kingwa for taking out Compass at the promotional price of USD258 + ship..


 As For David, you seem to be very keen on a higher end DAC with USB and specifically looking for AUdio GD products, As for comparison, I don't think any one has done a comparison to the gears you are talking about, so if at all you get any answers it might not be really concrete answers.
 All I can say is that Kingwa, is tinkering with the idea of a Mutibit DAC Compass.. maybe it will be a follow-up to the Upgraded Compass at a slightly higher price, but even if he does decide to go ahead with his plans, it wont be this year but 2010.. the best I guess would be if you can find someone who has or will have a Compass in the near future in your vicinity, maybe you could ask that person to lend you the Compass for a side by side test..


----------



## ExtraNice

I saw the design... not sure if this has been said P) but why don't you change the source selector knob so they are all at 90 degrees to each other, instead of being cluttered together.
 More distance to travel, so it should mean less mistakes (flicking too far). Also, it might make it easier to see the other sources.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I saw the design... not sure if this has been said P) but they don't you change the source selector knob so they are all at 90 degrees to each other, instead of being cluttered together.
 More distance to travel, so it should mean less mistakes (flicking too far). Also, it might make it easier to see the other sources._

 

That would not just mean redesigning the selector knob, but also putting a different switch behind it with that particular configuration. I'm not sure such a thing even exists, or is available to Kingwa at the moment. Availability really is a problem, that's why there are actually 4 slots on the selector dial, while only 3 are used.

 Besides, it's not really 'cluttered' in any way, the slots are already very clearly separate. It's almost impossible to make a wrong selection as it is now.


----------



## senn_liu

i got the information that jaben would be bringing in 10 units from a singaporean forum. however, i guess i phrased it inaccurately. (one of) the guy(s) in charge at jaben is organising a 10-unit bulk order, and is willing to foot the entire bill in advance.

 so, in effect, jaben is ordering 10 units and selling them. it is just that they are ordering the units with confirmed buyers available, rather than bringing them in, then seeking potential buyers.

 normally: import 10 units ---> sell to 10 buyers over a period of time
 this time: confirm 10 buyers --> import 10 units --> deal with buyers

 pretty much the same thing.


----------



## ExtraNice

@Drosera: Oh! Didn't know it would be so troublesome. 

 @Senn: What difference would it make if the "buyers" just dealt with the Audio-gd themselves? Only difference I can see is the price that they're going to have to pay (more expensive I mean).

 Do you think Audio-gd would give discount for bulk-buy?


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_






 here they are with them on the right_

 

I think this is the best looking. Nice balance and spacing and has the advantage of not having to redesign the holes on the front panel compared to the existing design.


----------



## senn_liu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 @Senn: What difference would it make if the "buyers" just dealt with the Audio-gd themselves? Only difference I can see is the price that they're going to have to pay (more expensive I mean).

 Do you think Audio-gd would give discount for bulk-buy?_

 


 jaben's stated price for each unit is US*$320 *nett. ($258 for compass/$41 shipping/$21 tax or something) the buyers don't have to pay upfront, only when the item arrives. they can also scream at jaben's employees/refuse to pay if their unit arrives in less than perfect condition, as opposed to screaming at kingwa over the internet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 there doesn't seem to be much of a discount, if any at all, for bulk orders. it is just more convenient for both kingwa and the individual buyers. (both kingwa and the buyers deal with one person - the one making the order).

 just fyi i paid USD$400 for the compass, better power cable, and the canare coaxial. so that's *$326* for the compass. $6 more than jaben's bulk order price, but that's due to a 4% paypal fee.


----------



## ccschua

I think Kingwa is flexible for bulk organizers. He is always listening and sensitive to market needs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on the panel design, I would prefer a simplified version of simple words only or simple symbol only. 

 how about using smaller knobs ?


----------



## SoFGR

after reading all these posts about zero dacs dying i seriously consider of getting this dac instead of zero but i still have some questions 

 1) i use dt770 pros the 80omh version, should i adjust the gain jumper to 13db instead of 19 and keep the default neutral signature ? (i guess the second setting is up to personal prefference right ? ) 
 2) what's the real benefit of buying an Audio-gd Discrete OPA and the Audio-gd exclusive power cable ?
 3) I live in greece, is that supposed to be east europe ? if yes are there any cheaper alternatives than paying 85$ for shipping ?
 4) is there anybody who has already tried them with dt770s or similar headphones ? what are the results ?
 5) what's the estimated release date of the upgraded version ? is it focused on improving the SQ or just the usability and aesthetics of the DAC ?


----------



## ExtraNice

Man, I would have already copped this baby if it wasn't for that damned conversion rate.
 I have to pay nearly $60 AUD more due to our weak currency.

  Quote:


 I live in greece, is that supposed to be east europe ? if yes are there any cheaper alternatives than paying 85$ for shipping ? 
 

Acutally, if you buy before the end of May you don't have to pay any shipping costs. $258 will include shipping. Promotion thing.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Acutally, if you buy before the end of May you don't have to pay any shipping costs. $258 will include shipping. Promotion thing._

 

I have some bad news for you, $258 does NOT include shipping. The promotion is the price of $258, after May it will probably go up to 400$ or so.


----------



## ExtraNice

ohhh yikes. How come after the promotion it will go up so much? I could nearly buy another whole unit!!!


----------



## indie_big_wig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_after reading all these posts about zero dacs dying i seriously consider of getting this dac instead of zero but i still have some questions 

 1) i use dt770 pros the 80omh version, should i adjust the gain jumper to 13db instead of 19 and keep the default neutral signature ? (i guess the second setting is up to personal prefference right ? ) 
 2) what's the real benefit of buying an Audio-gd Discrete OPA and the Audio-gd exclusive power cable ?
 3) I live in greece, is that supposed to be east europe ? if yes are there any cheaper alternatives than paying 85$ for shipping ?
 4) is there anybody who has already tried them with dt770s or similar headphones ? what are the results ?
 5) what's the estimated release date of the upgraded version ? is it focused on improving the SQ or just the usability and aesthetics of the DAC ?_

 

I'd like to know the answer to the part in question 2 about the OPA as well if anyone can help.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


 1) i use dt770 pros the 80omh version, should i adjust the gain jumper to 13db instead of 19 and keep the default neutral signature ? (i guess the second setting is up to personal prefference right ? ) 
 2) what's the real benefit of buying an Audio-gd Discrete OPA and the Audio-gd exclusive power cable ?
 3) I live in greece, is that supposed to be east europe ? if yes are there any cheaper alternatives than paying 85$ for shipping ?
 4) is there anybody who has already tried them with dt770s or similar headphones ? what are the results ?
 5) what's the estimated release date of the upgraded version ? is it focused on improving the SQ or just the usability and aesthetics of the DAC ? 
 

1) you should try that out yourself and see what suits you.
 2) Audio GD Moon opamp comes with the Compass as default, you can buy the other 2 SUN and EARTH at discounted price, it has different sound signatures. Audio GD opamps unlike other opamps are made for audio purposes, results compared to other opamps are considered better - although I am not opening the gates for arguments, because it can be subjective.
 3) Greece, would be Europe, but check with Kingwa
 4) I havent, check back and see if someone has - someone should give you the answer to this if they have used.
 5) feb end, adjustments of gains, placement of switches, preamp out to be added + aesthetics


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_after reading all these posts about zero dacs dying i seriously consider of getting this dac instead of zero but i still have some questions 

 1) i use dt770 pros the 80omh version, should i adjust the gain jumper to 13db instead of 19 and keep the default neutral signature ? (i guess the second setting is up to personal prefference right ? )_

 

As far as is known up till now, the gain settings do not effect the sound signature. The new Compass will have lower gain settings (8 and 15, IIRC). The lower gain should already be more than enough for your DT770.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2) what's the real benefit of buying an Audio-gd Discrete OPA and the Audio-gd exclusive power cable ?_

 

When buying the Compass you can choose which opamp (Sun, Moon or Earth) will be included. Additional opamps will allow you to change the sound of the DAC.
 Some users have noticed improvement in the sound with the Audio-gd power cable. Whether that's worth $60 to you is your choice.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_3) I live in greece, is that supposed to be east europe ? if yes are there any cheaper alternatives than paying 85$ for shipping ?_

 

Mail Kingwa at Audio-gd and ask him about this.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_4) is there anybody who has already tried them with dt770s or similar headphones ? what are the results ?_

 

Not as far as I know, but they will work fine.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_5) what's the estimated release date of the upgraded version ? is it focused on improving the SQ or just the usability and aesthetics of the DAC ?_

 

Mainly usability and added preamp function and upgraded RCA sockets, next to some tweaks of the gain (mentioned above) and some alteration of the sound signature options of the amp section.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ohhh yikes. How come after the promotion it will go up so much? I could nearly buy another whole unit!!!_

 

That's because the unit is actually worth THAT much.


----------



## haloxt

delete


----------



## oldschool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_3) I live in greece, is that supposed to be east europe ? if yes are there any cheaper alternatives than paying 85$ for shipping ?_

 

When you receive Kingwa's answer make sure you post it here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I live in Bulgaria, which as you probably know, is just above Greece. Still, I would think DHL would consider both countries as Eastern Europe, hence $85 for shipping.. :/


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ohhh yikes. How come after the promotion it will go up so much? I could nearly buy another whole unit!!!_

 

If you check back the history of this thread, you will see Compass is a collaborated effort between people of this forum and Audio GD, Curra came up with the idea of having an alternate to Zero DAC and Kingwa took up the challange of making one, off course there has been numerous people in between who expressed their ideas in the thread which guided Kingwa in developing Compass.

 Since its joint effort, Kingwa decided to have a promotional period, where he would sell Compass with minimal or no profits. Once that promotional period is over (end of May atleast) it will be business as usual, the final price tag of Compass will be decided by the maker of Compass according to what he feels most appropriate for him and users based on feedbacks..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you check back the history of this thread, you will see Compass is a collaborated effort between people of this forum and Audio GD, Curra came up with the idea of having an alternate to Zero DAC and Kingwa took up the challange of making one, off course there has been numerous people in between who expressed their ideas in the thread which guided Kingwa in developing Compass.

 Since its joint effort, Kingwa decided to have a promotional period, where he would sell Compass with minimal or no profits. Once that promotional period is over (end of May atleast) it will be business as usual, the final price tag of Compass will be decided by the maker of Compass according to what he feels most appropriate for him and users based on feedbacks.._

 

Actually, as Curra already admitted, things have gone slightly 'wrong'. The original idea was to design a reliable Zero at a slightly higher price. But between Kingwa's (praiseworthy) unwillingness to cut corners and our unwillingness to let him, we've ended up with something that's become much more than originally intended.
 It's an excellent result, in my opinion. An improved Zero would have been just that, nice for the money. What we have now is much more than that and truly up to Audio-gd's high standard.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I saw the design... not sure if this has been said P) but why don't you change the source selector knob so they are all at 90 degrees to each other, instead of being cluttered together.
 More distance to travel, so it should mean less mistakes (flicking too far). Also, it might make it easier to see the other sources._

 

As already addressed, we'd need a different switch to accomplish that. What I'm trying to do is simply rearrange existing components (those which can be moved at least).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think this is the best looking. Nice balance and spacing and has the advantage of not having to redesign the holes on the front panel compared to the existing design._

 

Some of the holes are still moving, but they're panel mounted components so it shouldn't matter anyway, they're basically just moving up and down a bit.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, as Curra already admitted, things have gone slightly 'wrong'. The original idea was to design a reliable Zero at a slightly higher price. But between Kingwa's (praiseworthy) unwillingness to cut corners and our unwillingness to let him, we've ended up with something that's become much more than originally intended.
 It's an excellent result, in my opinion. An improved Zero would have been just that, nice for the money. What we have now is much more than that and truly up to Audio-gd's high standard._

 

Unfortunately, there is no competitor for the Zero, and it owns it's price point still. If you get a "good" Zero, it's a hell of a deal!

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unfortunately, there is no competitor for the Zero, and it owns it's price point still. If you get a "good" Zero, it's a hell of a deal!

 ._

 

Yeahyeah, but as already indicated before, the main attraction of the Zero was not what it was, but what you could make of it.

 (Anyways, out of my league here, I never was part of the Zero thing.)


----------



## csroc

I'm putting together a "master list" as it were of the designs.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeahyeah, but as already indicated before, the main attraction of the Zero was not what it was, but what you could make of it.

 (Anyways, out of my league here, I never was part of the Zero thing.)_

 

I guess ultimately one cant put them in the same catogory, one has to look at compass as compass and zero as zero, i was very surprised at Curra's evaluation as stock zero 60 and compass 80, but then realized it was only based on DAC section, because the weakness of Zero lies in the HP section and not the DAC, plus if you take other factors as reliability and so on, that difference will become further apart..

 All said and done - no competator for Zero at 178 shipped and I don't see a competitor for Compass as USD258 plus shipping and as we found out through several reviews, specially the comprehensive review from Peete, its going to be difficult to beat even at final price between USD400 - USD450 plus shipping..

 Thats how I see it..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With regard to a high-end DAC with USB input. I must say I still would have reservations with regard to the sound quality you would get from a noisy environment like a computer. The fact that Kingwa doesn't include a USB input in his higher end DACs might indicate that he shares these reservations. But who knows, maybe the new DSP-1 module would be able to work miracles in cleaning up the signal from USB input. But it might be too late to incorporate it even in the Reference Three DAC (which is still in development), because it would mean redesigning the PCB._

 

They are hi-fi components, not computer-as-source components, so they don't have USB. With head-fi, things are considerably different.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_after reading all these posts about zero dacs dying i seriously consider of getting this dac instead of zero but i still have some questions 

 1) i use dt770 pros the 80omh version, should i adjust the gain jumper to 13db instead of 19 and keep the default neutral signature ? (i guess the second setting is up to personal prefference right ? )_

 

It just controls how loud the volume is. When you get one, see what works best for you.

  Quote:


 2) what's the real benefit of buying an Audio-gd Discrete OPA and the Audio-gd exclusive power cable ? 
 

The discrete OPA is explained in my Zero FAQ (see my sig below). I'm slowly writing up a Compass FAQ which will explain it in terms of the compass. The Compass is actually weird specifically having a switchable discrete OPA by default. It's the result of the epic screwing around people did with the Zero DAC last year. Opamps are cheap things to experiment with for their different sound signatures.

  Quote:


 3) I live in greece, is that supposed to be east europe ? if yes are there any cheaper alternatives than paying 85$ for shipping ? 
 

Welcome to the European Union. All your taxes are belong to us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 4) is there anybody who has already tried them with dt770s or similar headphones ? what are the results ? 
 

It's been tested with enough different headphones that it should be decent with any regular popular headphone. I didn't suggest Beyers in the list because there are so many variations of even a single model and their characteristics appear in other headphones anyway.

  Quote:


 5) what's the estimated release date of the upgraded version ? is it focused on improving the SQ or just the usability and aesthetics of the DAC ? 
 

The only units that have been sent out are test units. Most of what's changing involves minor tweaks, such as gain settings. The whole aesthetics thing sprang up a couple of days ago. It's weird, as I haven't seen anything this comprehensively community-designed on here before. I'm just sitting back and watching as it's gone to places I never imagined.


----------



## mbd2884

Was Curra's numbers based on a modded Zero or stock Zero?

 But yeah I also believe Compass is a competitor for the Meier Audio Cantate, KECES 152 and others similar now, not the Zero.

  Quote:


 Originally Posted by Drosera View Post

 With regard to a high-end DAC with USB input. I must say I still would have reservations with regard to the sound quality you would get from a noisy environment like a computer. The fact that Kingwa doesn't include a USB input in his higher end DACs might indicate that he shares these reservations. But who knows, maybe the new DSP-1 module would be able to work miracles in cleaning up the signal from USB input. But it might be too late to incorporate it even in the Reference Three DAC (which is still in development), because it would mean redesigning the PCB. 
 

Computer noise shouldn't be a factor with USB and ASIO or Wasabi output. Its just data, zeros and ones going out, its not even a signal, its data.- 
 - Personally for me that's why I went with this external DAC option because I wanted to avoid the computer noise factor. Onboard Soundcard, PCI Soundcard or even my PCMCIA card, Audigy 2 ZS.
 - Although I still can hear the computer noise like fans, clicks if volume is very low.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ohhh yikes. How come after the promotion it will go up so much? I could nearly buy another whole unit!!!_

 

I personally wouldn't price Compass at 400, but at 475 minimum, excluding shipping charges. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be priced competitively with the KECES 152 and Meir Audio Cantate.

 Needs to be emphasized repeatedly, the Compass is not a 258 dollar DAC/Amp, that's just the promotional price. Its a 400+ dollar DAC/Amp.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess ultimately one cant put them in the same catogory, one has to look at compass as compass and zero as zero, i was very surprised at Curra's evaluation as stock zero 60 and compass 80, but then realized it was only based on DAC section, because the weakness of Zero lies in the HP section and not the DAC, plus if you take other factors as reliability and so on, that difference will become further apart.._

 

Keep in mind also the law of diminishing returns. It's much easier to get from 0 to 60 then it is to get from 60 to 80.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Keep in mind also the law of diminishing returns. It's much easier to get from 0 to 60 then it is to get from 60 to 80._

 

I agree to that, but then that gap will grow if you take overall Compass vs overall Zero - The DAC section was the strength of ZERO, I have a feeling the AMP will shine in Compass ( if you go by Peete's Compass preamp review) - while the AMP section in ZERO was considered a weakness - I hope you get what I mean.. Plus the rule of diminishing returns..


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree to that, but then that gap will grow if you take overall Compass and overall Zero - The DAC section was the strength of ZERO, I have a feeling the AMP will shine in Compass - while the AMP section in ZERO was considered a weakness - I hope you get what I mean.. Plus the rule of diminishing returns.._

 

At this point wouldn't the Musiland or Yulong DAC/Amp combos be more of comparison to the Zero now?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *therg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Forgive me if I misread this from the audio-gd site but does this mean that the OPA is only utilized while using the rear RCA outputs and not the headphone jack? Been reading through this thread and I'm very interested in the compass just not sure what OPA I would get._

 

I believe the OPA used in the Compass is similar to a Buffer. Quote Wikipedia.

  Quote:


 A unity gain buffer amplifier may be constructed very simply by connecting the output of an operational amplifier to its inverting input (negative feedback), and connecting a signal source to the non-inverting input. For this circuit, Vout is simply equal to Vin.

 The importance of this circuit does not come from any change in voltage, but from the input and output impedances of the op-amp. The input impedance of the op-amp is very high (MΩ to 10 TΩ), meaning that the input of the op-amp does not load down the source or draw any current from it. Because the output impedance of the op-amp is very low, it drives the load as if it were a perfect voltage source. Both the connections to and from the buffer are therefore bridging connections, which reduce power consumption in the source, distortion from overloading, crosstalk and other electromagnetic interference. 
 

Although there is audible sound differences between the OPA's used, so I'm not positive of my speculation.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the European Union. All your taxes are belong to us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nice, but not really the point in this case. Apparently shipping to Eastern Europe is just particularly expensive. Probably something to do with slightly less shipping traffic going in that direction.

 I doubt Greece is considered part of Eastern Europe though (but Bulgaria definitely is, I'm afraid). Anyways, as said before, ask Kingwa. He uses different courier services depending on your location, so he's the only one who can give you all the information on the shipping options available.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At this point wouldn't the Musiland or Yulong DAC/Amp combos be more of comparison to the Zero now?_

 

If honestly, I cant comment about that, I only had the Zero and now the Compass, but Les would be in a better position, I think he has both Zero and Yulong and soon will be receiving his Compass too..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At this point wouldn't the Musiland or Yulong DAC/Amp combos be more of comparison to the Zero now?



 I believe the OPA used in the Compass is similar to a Buffer. Quote Wikipedia.



 Although there is audible sound differences between the OPA's used, so I'm not positive of my speculation._

 


 In 90 days, this product from most sources say it will be $400. That's what it should be compared to. Yulong costs much less than that and has the whiz bang LCD that is Unreadable.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If honestly, I cant comment about that, I only had the Zero and now the Compass, but Les would be in a better position, I think he has both Zero and Yulong and soon will be receiving his Compass too.._

 

Zero is still by itself. I just saw one from Snow for sale for less than $100. Yulong is $289 which is much less than the 90 day Compass in June.

 .


----------



## csroc

Sorry to interrupt an actually important discussion, but here's the final collection of designs as it stands. If there aren't any big requests I'll be putting up the poll soon


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to interrupt an actually important discussion, but here's the final collection of designs as it stands. If there aren't any big requests I'll be putting up the poll soon




_

 

Which of these has the original Knob spacing? Is Kingwa "Good" with the knob spacing change? Is he "Good" with the ideas we have here? The reason I ask is to not waste time on options that are not possible.

 .


----------



## csroc

The three on the right have the original position for the selector knob.


----------



## mbd2884

4, with volume on top also.


----------



## sandchak

oops beaten again..Great Job Csroc


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to interrupt an actually important discussion, but here's the final collection of designs as it stands. If there aren't any big requests I'll be putting up the poll soon_

 

Maybe a minimalist version, with just the power and the selector symbols? Not my choice, but I've seen it mentioned yesterday.


----------



## csroc

No labeling on the selector switch at all?


----------



## oldschool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to interrupt an actually important discussion, but here's the final collection of designs as it stands. If there aren't any big requests I'll be putting up the poll soon_

 

How about one with labels for the input knob and a symbol for the volume knob? Or that will be too asymmetric?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No labeling on the selector switch at all?_

 

No no, not what I said. Only the symbols for "power" and the different input selections. (So, that's four symbols.)

 Alternatively, at least one where the "headphone icon" is left out. I belief many expressed the opinion that that was quite redundant anyways. (What else are you going to plug in there?)

 EDIT: Mind you, I'm fine with the choices you made available above. I'm just trying to make sure all different possible preferences are included. So if noone else even speaks up for these options, you can leave them out.


----------



## Currawong

IMO, for ease of use, the selector options should be at the top. We're going to have to call it a day pretty shortly on all this so that the unit can go into production.

 Is there a result on the gain poll?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT: Mind you, I'm fine with the choices you made available above. I'm just trying to make sure all different possible preferences are included._

 

Fair enough. I will cut it off at some point and pick the best (8-10) for the poll. Too many choices and the results might be unclear or it could just be overwhelming and confusing.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, for ease of use, the selector options should be at the top. We're going to have to call it a day pretty shortly on all this so that the unit can go into production._

 

You beat me to it... but that's exactly what I'll be doing in about 20 minutes. Calling an end to new ideas and putting up a poll. I think most wishes had already been heard before this morning.

  Quote:


 Is there a result on the gain poll? 
 

Aside from 9/19 there has been no official poll on the gain for 9/15. I'll add a question about that when I create the faceplate poll.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fair enough. I will cut it off at some point and pick the best (8-10) for the poll. Too many choices and the results might be unclear or it could just be overwhelming and confusing._

 

You're doing excellent work here csroc. I'm very curious what the result will be.

 Csroc: *official Audio-gd Compass poll-guy*. (Will that fit on a badge?)


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, for ease of use, the selector options should be at the top. We're going to have to call it a day pretty shortly on all this so that the unit can go into production.

 Is there a result on the gain poll?_

 

Ditto. I feel a huge Ergonomic problem with these anywhere else. If you start reinventing wheels, you'll soon figure out why they are round for the most part.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, for ease of use, the selector options should be at the top. We're going to have to call it a day pretty shortly on all this so that the unit can go into production.

 Is there a result on the gain poll?_

 

 I think the guys who have the Units and are testing should make strong recommendations here. If you don't have the unit, it seems you can't really vote for this one. It sure sounds like the consensus is that 19 db is just too high for anyone to need and most likely noisy, "relatively" speaking. I would feel comfortable with Curra and Peete just making the decision here.

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ditto. I feel a huge Ergonomic problem with these anywhere else. If you start reinventing wheels, you'll soon figure out why they are round for the most part.

 ._

 

Yup, someone has actually already thought about these things.
 Putting the icons/names above the selector knob is the only position where all of them will be visible, whatever your position is relative to the Compass. (Except if the unit is situated above your head, which is rather unlikely.)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the guys who have the Units and are testing should make strong recommendations here. If you don't have the unit, it seems you can't really vote for this one. It sure sounds like the consensus is that 19 db is just too high for anyone to need and most likely noisy, "relatively" speaking. I would feel comfortable with Curra and Peete just making the decision here._

 

And maybe the ones with the most sensitive headphones can vote on the low gain? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Nah, I think Peete's and Currawong's suggestion for the altered gain settings is fine.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, for ease of use, the selector options should be at the top..._

 

There was a sample yesterday that had both the source symbols and the volume symbol on the top. IMO, that sample looks like it would work very well and should be a serious contender...


----------



## Sganzerla

Do we have a final day to make recomendations to Kingwa? Will anyone compile all of this info and send him?

 I don't know if I put those things here to discussion or comment only with the manufacturer.


----------



## csroc

I think if the symbols were to go beside the selector that they should be on the left. The selector and volume knobs are so tall that they'd get lost in the canyon in between.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're doing excellent work here csroc. I'm very curious what the result will be.

 Csroc: *official Audio-gd Compass poll-guy*. (Will that fit on a badge?)_

 

Oh dear.


----------



## Toe Tag

The compass is pretty happy with any headphone? Or are there some in this list that work particularly well with it? http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/hea...-guide-271258/


----------



## haloxt

Since the hello kitty-ization won't apply to the first 100 compasses, do you guys plan on doing any paint jobs on your compasses? I was considering painting mine the same as apple products for humor and novelty (would be my only apple product) but I'm worried you guys already have a bucket of apple paint and apple labels and will beat me to it.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toe Tag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The compass is pretty happy with any headphone? Or are there some in this list that work particularly well with it? http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/hea...-guide-271258/_

 

Way too early to tell. The only thing you can say is that it can drive any headphone that has been tested with it well. (And that's quite a list already.) No real problems have been encountered up till now. But whether it works particularly well with certain headphones is not just a question of synergy but also of personal taste. You need a lot more impressions of users for that. (And I doubt even then you will have a conclusive result.)


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since the hello kitty-ization won't apply to the first 100 compasses, do you guys plan on doing any paint jobs on your compasses? I was considering painting mine the same as apple products for humor and novelty (would be my only apple product) but I'm worried you guys already have a bucket of apple paint and apple labels and will beat me to it._

 

I'm gonna paint mine black!


----------



## csroc

The final designs... I'm wrapping up the poll now


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since the hello kitty-ization won't apply to the first 100 compasses, do you guys plan on doing any paint jobs on your compasses? I was considering painting mine the same as apple products for humor and novelty (would be my only apple product) but I'm worried you guys already have a bucket of apple paint and apple labels and will beat me to it._

 

Hi,
 I sent you two of my K&E Slide Rules, they should be there tomorrow! Don't worry, I have plenty of them. 

 I'm painting mine in "UV Activated Ghost Flames". 

 And NO, I won't paint yours too!

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The final designs... I'm wrapping up the poll now_

 

I wonder how many rounds we'll need. Thank goodness you don't live in Florida though.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder how many rounds we'll need. Thank goodness you don't live in Florida though._

 

This isn't a "democracy" either


----------



## csroc

The officially final Compass poll (hopefully).

 Go forth and vote everyone! I will pretend your opinion counts!


 (If you see any errors/problems let me know, although it probably means the poll will have to be restarted)


----------



## shampoosuicide

Are any of the Audio-gd DACs multibit? If so, which ones?


----------



## haloxt

Voted, but why no option for default ^_^.

 Or at least pit the final chosen custom one with the default... sorry I don't sound very open to changes to the faceplate, it's just when I think about the faceplate I see a lot of thought already went into it by the manufacturer.


----------



## csroc

Default what?

 Giving me a hard time eh? Why i oughta delete your vote!



 if I could


----------



## csroc

I'll have to clear the responses to change that. We'll pit the final chosen one(s) against default then. That takes care of that!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll have to clear the responses to change that_

 

No, don't, I think enough people were in favor of change anyways. (Change!)

 Anyways, as you said, it's not like this is a democracy.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, don't, I think enough people were in favor of change anyways. (Change!)

 Anyways, as you said, it's not like this is a democracy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

True. The funny thing is, after I've put so much effort in to designing and preparing all of these, I don't know which I would want to vote for! I may function as tie-breaker or I may pick one that is lagging by one to tie it up so we can have another vote 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


 edit: oh and I should comment that there are no issues with PCB/mounted component clearance that would prevent the selector switch from being moved over 10mm.


----------



## senn_liu

when i first saw the compass, i thought it looked kinda cheap on the outside. i prefer stuff with the appearance of meier audio's cantate and the northstar. simple, clean, slick. 

 now, however, with people pushing for all symbols on the front panel, i actually think that we should stick to the existing appearance. having all symbols on the front looks a little cartoonish to me. out of the available options i voted for #5. nice balanced mix of words and iconography.

 drosera, i you own a corda opera right? how does that compare in terms of sq with the compass?


----------



## RedSky0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The final designs... I'm wrapping up the poll now









_

 

4 and 10 are exactly the same, heh I feel like a kid playing spot the difference  

 Anyway, that's the one I'd vote for.

 Oh, hah you're right couldn't see it at all.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedSky0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_4 and 10 are exactly the same, heh I feel like a kid playing spot the difference  

 Anyway, that's the one I'd vote for._

 

No, they aren't actually! On 4 the selector knob is 10mm to the right of where it is on 10.


----------



## Taikero

Not that you had to, csroc, but it would've been nice to see at least one 90 degree option.


----------



## Joeoboe

3, 6 and 9 all seem to be the cleanest and most consistent as far as balance goes. I don't like putting text above the input selector AND below the volume... looks weird.
 Now... it is really hard to choose from those!


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_3, 6 and 9 all seem to be the cleanest and most consistent as far as balance goes. I don't like putting text above the input selector AND below the volume... looks weird.
 Now... it is really hard to choose from those!_

 

I've been feeling the same way about that since last night. I believe I'm leaning towards 9 myself.

 I think moving the selector knob to the right really balances the front a lot. I find just in looking at my actual Compass that such a move would look nice.


----------



## csommers

So many choices


----------



## senn_liu

sorry to digress from the question of 10mm difference in placement of knobs, but this is a question for currawong:

 based on your rating below for dacs, converted to a 0-100 scale,

 4 - ipod
 48 - zero dac (stock)
 64 - compass
 76 - lavry da-10
 76 - benchmark dac 1
 80 - northstar m192
 96 - nakamichi dragon dac

 where would the presonus central station, and maybe the meier audio cantate.2 and keces da152 fit in (not looking for an absolute scientific answer, just your opinion, even if it's an educated guess without any/much experience with the equipment)?


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been feeling the same way about that since last night. I believe I'm leaning towards 9 myself.

 I think moving the selector to the right really balances the front a lot. I find just in looking at my actual Compass that such a move would look nice._

 

I was really torn.. but picked 9 myself!! Great minds think alike... which might not explain why we both chose 9!


----------



## ScottieB

Haha yeah every time I look I have another favorite... leaning toward 2 right now... like the way the icons to the left of the knob balance everything out, although I'm debating whether I'd like it in actual use... I suppose it doesn't matter that much - the movement is still the same...


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry to digress from the question of 10mm difference in placement of knobs, but this is a question for currawong:

 based on your rating below for dacs, converted to a 0-100 scale,

 ipod5
 zero dac (stock)60
 compass80
 lavry da-1095
 benchmark dac 195
 northstar m192100
 nakamichi dragon dac120

 where would the presonus central station, and maybe the meier audio cantate.2 and keces da152 fit in (not looking for an absolute scientific answer, just your opinion, even if it's an educated guess)?_

 

I am absolutely stepping in the middle of something here which is not my topic... but I wanted to mention that I own and use the Presonus in my project studio. I like it quite a bit... but I find it veiled and lacking in detail compared to the Compass DAC and the headphone amp is not in the same league... I think it is an eighth of the power output of the Compass, so that has a huge impact on dynamics and bass quality... ok... I am stepping back OUT of this conversation...


----------



## senn_liu

i'm gonna drag you right back into it, joeoboe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 surprising that you don't speak highly of the presonus. many on this forum have the opinion that its dac performs just slightly poorer than the lavry and benchmark so it is like a $600 dac which sounds like a $800 one, with a free amp attached.

 of course, we all have different judgments in audio, but if what you and others say are both true, that would mean:

 you: compass>presonus
 others: presonus = $800 dac (loosely speaking)

 therefore,

 compass sounds like a $800 dac w/ decent amp.

 (i know this is obviously based on assumptions, not objective facts. please don't shoot me.)


----------



## techfreakazoid

Great job, csroc! I just noticed the updated images so sorry if this is coming in late. If shifting the selector knob a few mm's to the right is in play i.e., redesigning the front plate hole openings, can the LED hole be positioned a few mm's lower to accommodate for the integration of the power icon as reflected in 1, WHILE keeping the Audio-gd Compass name in the top-left corner?

 If we take a look at the front panel, the bottom edges of the two left buttons and Neutrik jack are level, which is not reflected in the sample images. Staying on the theme of an icon-free bottom section, have an option for the "S" icon above the Super botton and axe the hp icon.

Attachment 14343


 With 70-90% of the world's population right-handed, the selector icons should ideally be placed ABOVE the knob or as Taikero suggested, between 9 and 12 o'clock. If you're a lefty, the icons to the right would make sense from a visibility and usability perspective. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Taikero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought of another option I hadn't seen yet. What about a "right angle" configuration for the selector? Start from left or top, and go clockwise 90 degrees to hit the third selection.








_


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great job, csroc! I just noticed the updated images so sorry if this is coming in late. If shifting the selector knob a few mm's to the right is in play i.e., redesigning the front plate hole openings, can the LED hole be positioned a few mm's lower to accommodate for the integration of the power icon as reflected in 1, WHILE keeping the Audio-gd Compass name in the top-left corner?

 If we take a look at the front panel, the bottom edges of the two left buttons and Neutrik jack are level, which is not reflected in the sample images. Staying on the theme of an icon-free bottom section, have an option for the "S" icon above the Super botton and axe the hp icon.

 With 70-90% of the world's population right-handed, the selector icons should ideally be placed ABOVE the knob or as Taikero suggested, between 9 and 12 o'clock. If you're a lefty, the icons to the right would make sense from a visibility and usability perspective._

 

Thanks!

 Regarding the positioning of the icons, I think putting them above the switch does make it about as good as it can be for both lefties and righties without giving either the shaft.

 You are correct that on the test Compass the bottom of the two left switches and the Neutrik are close, but they aren't actually level. The Neutrik jack is not quite 2mm lower. I thought about aligning them to be level but ultimately decided to align them all along the selector & volume knob's center line.

 As for moving all the icons to the top, I don't know. I personally think the Audio-dg and compass branding should stay there. It just feels right. Also, if you look at the C2-C or SA100 it's in the same area. His other components have it in the lower right or the top center usually. I think top-center would be cluttered near the selector area and the lower right would be hard to see unless the Compass is on a high surface.


----------



## edselfordfong

yeah, i think I like those right angle icons too.


----------



## jron

Number 7 is perfection. It is simple, elegant, and doesn't insult my intelligence. Great work! Also, if the knob location can't be changed the design for #7 still works great.






 7! =)


----------



## csroc

As mentioned before the selector switch fixes the positioning of the icons. I'd rather have them line up with the line on the selector than reposition them just because it might look better.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was really torn.. but picked 9 myself!! Great minds think alike... which might not explain why we both chose 9! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow, I had already voted 9 before the two of you did, but did not really expect that one to be very popular. 

 Just out of curiosity, why didn't you vote for one with the symbols beneath the selector knob?

 (EDIT: Ooh, I just realised it might not be so much great minds thinking alike, as Compass owners thinking alike. I think we'll need our own private poll. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_drosera, i you own a corda opera right? how does that compare in terms of sq with the compass?_

 

What? SQ? Don't you think looks are far more important? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I actually think that the current Compass looks at least as good as my Corda Opera. Which might just show what an awful sense of taste I have.)
 Actually, an extensive comparison with the Corda Opera will be my contribution to the reviews of the Compass. I'm planning to do it by the end of this week. My Compass should have more than 300 hours on it then, which should be sufficient for fair evaluation.


----------



## csroc

A repost of the poll link for anyone who hasn't seen or can't find it.

The officially final Compass poll (hopefully).

 Go forth and vote everyone! I will pretend your opinion counts!


----------



## B00MERS00NER

I went with low gain of 9 myself and don't have really have a preference for the high gain.

 for the front designs I was torn between 9 & 6, I went with 6.

 Great Job Csroc - give yourself a raise!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The three on the right have the original position for the selector knob._

 

I hate to point this out but the two push buttons are located lower on the face plate than the drawings ...well see for yourself with this pic...and I can't believe no one has noticed this yet...

 These cannot be relocated because of the shielding shroud and rectifier pcb being right around and on top of these large switches. 






 Peete.


----------



## oldschool

I voted 5.


----------



## csroc

Peete there is room to move the Neutrik and the LED up, I think the switches can be moved up, it's 4mm that they're being shifted. I'll ask Kingwa if that is an issue we can solve or not


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I abstained since there was no default (current knob locations/script etc) choice ( centering fixed of course ). 

 Symbols don't give me the warm fuzzies for some reason. To each his own however.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete there is room to move the Neutrik and the LED up, I think the switches can be moved up, it's 4mm that they're being shifted. I'll ask Kingwa if that is an issue we can solve or not_

 

 I'm going to give you the measurements of the box shield (in relation to where it is located on the front panel )....in the meantime I suggest you email Kingwa about moving all these controls before committing to a set design so that you know for absolute sure these changes can be done.

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

I already opened my compass and looked at the position of the shield in relation to the controls. And I have also already emailed Kingwa (although strangely this is the second time his email system has stopped sending me confirmation emails, happened Sunday too).

 If need be then I'll incorporate whatever the most popular labeling scheme is in to a design where the switches are kept down lower.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Big problem no 1 : Super switch assembly sticks up about 5MM above diameter of outside button and is located halfway between the shield wall in a notch cut out. Meaning that can't be moved without redesigning the shield box. 

 Here are pics....







 There is not a whole lot of room in there......






 Approx location of top of box/rectifier pcb is 15 mm from top of face plate. 9 mm needed min for assembly and wiring....the LED wiring is very close to the pcb/shield where it is. It may be possible to move the power switch but the jack assembly is already centered (pretty much where it is).

 So one switch *may* be an easy move while the other will not be. My suggestion is leave them where they are and redo the front panel to reflect default locations for those. 

 Talk to Kingwa first should be rule number 1 around here I think. 


 Peete.


----------



## scootermafia

Any chance that Kingwa could switch the volume knobs to ones that are straight flat across their front, not beveled - like the ones in the pic of my M3, linked on my sig?

 Not a big fan of beveled-edge knobs, although I do appreciate that they are high-quality aluminum.


----------



## les_garten

Do the options that don't move the holes around, easy enough..


 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any chance that Kingwa could switch the volume knobs to ones that are straight flat across their front, not beveled - like the ones in the pic of my M3, linked on my sig?

 Not a big fan of beveled-edge knobs, although I do appreciate that they are high-quality aluminum._

 

 Usually the way that is handled is you hunt knobs down when you purchase something and change the knob to suit YOUR PARTICULAR TASTE. 

 I did this on the Zero and my DV 337SE. Yulong=NO Knobs. LD MKV had a perfect knob.

 Where's Penchum, he's a knob guy!

 To counter your request, I like the knobs as they are. There is no way he can satisfy the knob fetishists here. The front panel is a different kettle of fish. It can't be easily one offed per individual like a knob swap. Of course there won't be a consensus on the Panel either. But hopefully there will be a trend. May require a run off Poll!

 My suggestion, get someone to measure the knob for you and start searchin' Fleabay, there's awesome knobs out there.

 Great Knobs here: http://stores.ebay.com/PARTSPIPE

 .


----------



## mbd2884

Those interested in Zero vs Compass. That is those who do not know much about the Zero, like myself.

 The two use the same D/A AD1852, but use different Digital Receiver. Zero uses the CS8416, the Compass uses DIR9001.

 CS8416 accepts 192 khz signal, jitter 200ps
 DIR9001 accepts 96 khz signal, jitter 50ps.

 Kingwa chose DIR9001 for low jitter. Just something to think about in difference between the two DAC in these units.

 Also the other main difference for PC and Mac laptop users is the USB port input. USB as far as I can tell is the only output that completely bypasses a soundcard, as I don't see any evidence that even the optical output on the Macs bypass the on-board soundcard completely (yet). Zero lacks this, the Compass has this. I personally prefer the USB over all the other options, I have an old external USB card with RCA and Optical output. And the Creative Audigy 2 ZS notebook has optical output also.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

You know things always have a way of coming back full circle, but the process is fun just the same. LOL


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I find the lower 1/3 where they are now far more pleasing to the eye than having everything centered on the face plate....at least this way the script or symbols all line up on the same plane using the same spacing away from all the controls on the face plate. 

 I'm sure Kingwa will be able to clear this all up. If he says he can move them and that is what the majority wants then fine...I'll shut up about it and be happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those interested in Zero vs Compass. That is those who do not know much about the Zero, like myself.

 The two use the same D/A AD1852, but use different Digital Receiver. Zero uses the CS8416, the Compass uses DIR9001.

 CS8416 accepts 192 khz signal, jitter 200ps
 DIR9001 accepts 96 khz signal, jitter 50ps.

 Kingwa chose DIR9001 for low jitter. Just something to think about in difference between the two DAC in these units.

 Also the other main difference for PC and Mac laptop users is the USB port input. USB as far as I can tell is the only output that completely bypasses a soundcard, as I don't see any evidence that even the optical output on the Macs bypass the on-board soundcard completely (yet). Zero lacks this, the Compass has this. I personally prefer the USB over all the other options, I have an old external USB card with RCA and Optical output. And the Creative Audigy 2 ZS notebook has optical output also._

 

Ohhhh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank you for pointing that out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, make me want the Compass even more


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find the lower 1/3 where they are now far more pleasing to the eye than having everything centered on the face plate....at least this way the script or symbols all line up on the same plane using the same spacing away from all the controls on the face plate. 

 I'm sure Kingwa will be able to clear this all up. If he says he can move them and that is what the majority wants then fine...I'll shut up about it and be happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 

As I said I am well aware of the clearance issues inside the case however I had overlooked the size of the switches initially. The LED and Neutrik jack move will not interfere as they wouldn't be moving much at all.

 If the switches can be moved, then that would require a change to the shielding which, again, I have contacted Kingwa asking whether he would prefer if those switches not move up.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find the lower 1/3 where they are now far more pleasing to the eye than having everything centered on the face plate....at least this way the script or symbols all line up on the same plane using the same spacing away from all the controls on the face plate. 

 I'm sure Kingwa will be able to clear this all up. If he says he can move them and that is what the majority wants then fine...I'll shut up about it and be happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 

Initially the move up was just something I liked but until now there hasn't really been any opposition that I've noticed. I have also played with keeping the switches down lower and just aligning all along the same bottom line.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Why are you moving the jack ? It's already centered on the panel...

 This is getting ridiculous.....

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why are you moving the jack ? It's already centered on the panel...

 This is getting ridiculous.....

 Peete._

 

You don't have to appreciate what I'm doing, I get that. I started this for fun and it snowballed. As far as why the jack was moved? Because while _it_ may be centered in the panel the volume and selector knobs are not.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why are you moving the jack ? It's already centered on the panel...

 This is getting ridiculous.....

 Peete._

 

X2


----------



## moodyrn

x3. This is really getting out of hand.


----------



## Taikero

I think people forget that design is *supposed* to get out of hand at times. It's finding a good balance between boring and outlandish, combined with functionality if required, that makes a design successful.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Taikero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think people forget that design is *supposed* to get out of hand at times. It's finding a good balance between boring and outlandish, combined with functionality if required, that makes a design successful._

 

You can find a balance between boring and outlandish without going to the extreme. Also what is being suggested isn't a balance between the two imo.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

But nothing gets done with "out of hand" (it never ends and I said this 10 pages ago when Kingwa wanted a finished design submitted, not an entire change of the front panel including locations of current controls 2 weeks later )....deadlines have to be met and kept. Frivolous change for sake of .1mm accuracy at this late stage of the game IS ridiculous.

 I appreciate csroc's effort, I really do, but this should have happened before 80 chassis's were bought and paid for including knobs etc....

 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But nothing gets done with "out of hand" (it never ends and I said this 10 pages ago when Kingwa wanted a finished design submitted, not an entire change of the front panel including locations of current controls 2 weeks later )....deadlines have to be met and kept. Frivolous change for sake of .1mm accuracy at this late stage of the game IS ridiculous.

 I appreciate csroc's effort, I really do, but this should have happened before 80 chassis's were bought and paid for including knobs etc....

 Peete._

 

X2. Also think in the end front panel design doesn't take away from the Compass value or its attractiveness for a Mid-Fi DAC/Amp combo. Nor will it change the sound of it either, which is what counts the most, and I still the think the interior's workmanship and design is the Compass strength and what matters most after its quality sound, it is a work of art.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But nothing gets done with "out of hand" (it never ends and I said this 10 pages ago when Kingwa wanted a finished design submitted, not an entire change of the front panel including locations of current controls 2 weeks later )....deadlines have to be met and kept. Frivolous change for sake of .1mm accuracy at this late stage of the game IS ridiculous.

 I appreciate csroc's effort, I really do, but this should have happened before 80 chassis's were bought and paid for including knobs etc....

 Peete._

 

With all due respect here, those 80 Faceplates are flawed and are Beta's. So a Faceplate Face Lift is going to happen. There's time a plenty for that. 80 chassis have to be sold. Another day or two is no issue really. 

 The reasonable way to attack this issue is to ask Kingwa about what is doable within reason with respect to alignment. Work out the templates, have a poll, and see if Kingwa is interested. It is his product after all.

 .


----------



## csroc

At no point did Kingwa ask me to stop or not try to make improvements to the design after I contacted him. He encouraged a discussion and a poll. I've been having fun, but also doing what he's been asking me to do as best I can.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The reasonable way to attack this issue is to ask Kingwa about what is doable within reason with respect to alignment. Work out the templates, have a poll, and see if Kingwa is interested. It is his product after all.

 ._

 

I'm waiting to hear back from him on those issues, I emailed him quite a while ago and I'm wondering if the email got through (still no confirmation email).


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks!

 Regarding the positioning of the icons, I think putting them above the switch does make it about as good as it can be for both lefties and righties without giving either the shaft._

 

Agreed. Icons from the 11 to 1 o'clock position would meet the requirements of righties and lefties. The second choice from 9 to 12 o'clock zone would align nicely with the knob indicator lines for both the selector and volume knobs (assuming high impedance phones and respective gain settings).

  Quote:


 You are correct that on the test Compass the bottom of the two left switches and the Neutrik are close, but they aren't actually level. The Neutrik jack is not quite 2mm lower. I thought about aligning them to be level but ultimately decided to align them all along the selector & volume knob's center line.

 As for moving all the icons to the top, I don't know. I personally think the Audio-dg and compass branding should stay there. It just feels right. Also, if you look at the C2-C or SA100 it's in the same area. His other components have it in the lower right or the top center usually. I think top-center would be cluttered near the selector area and the lower right would be hard to see unless the Compass is on a high surface. 
 

Most people will have their Compass placed below eye level. It makes sense to have the selector icons on top as they would be more visible looking down when changing input selections. As for moving the power and S icons up (and axing the headphone icon), just revisiting Peete's front panel picture there are empty spaces ABOVE the two buttons which was NOT portrayed in the sample drawings. From a design perspective, things need to be balanced and weighted accordingly--black space, line thickness, knob placements--to prevent the visuals from being top or bottom-heavy.

 At the end of the day, I don't think we should be messing around the internals and burdening Kingwa with redesign work (of PCBs, wiring, panels) for the front panel's sake, but your first drawing with the LED suggested that was an option.


----------



## HammerSandwich

I have also abstained from the panel poll. At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man (and I'll admit my native-English-speaker's bias), I _hate_ icons in this sort of application.

 Imagine explaining how to use the Compass. To your mother. Over the phone. Is it easier to say, "Turn the selector to USB," or "Turn the knob with the 3 distinct logos to the one that looks kind of like a fork"?

 Does anyone really believe that the Corda Symphony's panel is cleaner & more intuitive than Kingwa's prototype?

 </rant>


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I said I am well aware of the clearance issues inside the case however I had overlooked the size of the switches initially. The LED and Neutrik jack move will not interfere as they wouldn't be moving much at all.

 If the switches can be moved, then that would require a change to the shielding which, again, I have contacted Kingwa asking whether he would prefer if those switches not move up.



 Initially the move up was just something I liked but until now there hasn't really been any opposition that I've noticed. I have also played with keeping the switches down lower and just aligning all along the same bottom line.





_

 

Yes, this drawing has the two left buttons placed correctly--relatively level--with the Neutrik jack. The two icons ABOVE the buttons make better use of the existing black space.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At no point did Kingwa ask me to stop or not try to make improvements to the design after I contacted him. He encouraged a discussion and a poll. I've been having fun, but also doing what he's been asking me to do as best I can.


 I'm waiting to hear back from him on those issues, I emailed him quite a while ago and I'm wondering if the email got through (still no confirmation email)._

 

It's early there I think. They're just showing up for work. Probably on a Train!

 .

 .


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HammerSandwich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone really believe that the Corda Symphony's panel is cleaner & more intuitive than Kingwa's prototype?_

 

Hell no. And you can replace "Corda Symphony" with many other brands for that question and my answer remains the same. Symbols might be okay for small faceplates, but the compass is as big as a VCR.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HammerSandwich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have also abstained from the panel poll. At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man (and I'll admit my native-English-speaker's bias), I hate icons in this sort of application.

 Imagine explaining how to use the Compass. To your mother. Over the phone. Is it easier to say, "Turn the selector to USB," or "Turn the knob with the 3 distinct logos to the one that looks kind of like a fork"?

 Does anyone really believe that the Corda Symphony's panel is cleaner & more intuitive than Kingwa's prototype?

 </rant>_

 

Well, Obviously your Mother needs to become more "Tragically Hip"!


 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, this drawing has the two left buttons placed correctly--relatively level--with the Neutrik jack. The two icons ABOVE the buttons make better use of the existing black space._

 

I could live with this one!

 .


----------



## gevorg

Speaking of Corda, how much cost would it add to have an option for a crossfeed switch on Compass? Maybe crossfeed can be one of the optional upgrades like the current preamp out.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hell no. And you can replace "Corda Symphony" with many other brands for that question and my answer remains the same. Symbols might be okay for small faceplates, but the compass is as big as a VCR._

 

We are more than willing to work with you on the weekends and after work if you are having difficulties understanding all the icons. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 .


----------



## paara

I voted for numper 6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Because it has the best overall symetry. All writing is at the top of the unit: Audio-dg Compass Usb Coax Opt Volume
 While the symboles are at the bottom and is not interfering with the look.

 Using symbols all around, deviate from the clean classic look on Audio-gd's other components. Better to keep the Audio-gd line up looking similar


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of Corda, how much cost would it add to have an option for a crossfeed switch on Compass? Maybe crossfeed can be one of the optional upgrades like the current preamp out._

 

We would need time to come up with a Button and an Icon for it! Probably add 6 months to the project, Crossfeed icons have caused these types of issues in the past...

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paara* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I voted for numper 6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Because it has the best overall symetry. All writing is at the top of the unit: Audio-dg Compass Usb Coax Opt Volume
 While the symboles are at the bottom and is not interfering with the look.

 Using symbols all around, deviate from the clean classic look on Audio-gd's other components. Better to keep the Audio-gd line up looking similar_

 

I'll bet you like Russian cars too...

 .


----------



## csroc

Icons were a group thing, lots of people pushed for them so they popped up on the panel in increasing numbers. I've kept the back panel to all text. I personally don't care for vague icons and find the Corda's to suffer a bit from that problem.

 I'm beginning to gravitate towards the bottom-aligned controls simply because it means the power supply shroud needs no adjusting for that I believe. What I will probably do is use the poll results to guide the final design (if need be) based off whatever Kingwa tells me. I expect designs to be finished this evening once Kingwa is at work and back to communicating. His meeting with the panel manufacturer is on the 22nd if I recall so this is certainly not going to be squeaking in at the last minute.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Les cut the insulting behavior ...it's not funny.

 Peete.


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll bet you like Russian cars too...

 ._

 

What was the purpose with that response?, I just tried to contribute.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Post reported paara...let the admins handle it.

 Peete.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I will probably do is use the poll results to guide the final design (if need be) based off whatever Kingwa tells me._

 

I definitely think this is best. As long as Kingwa is okay with the redesign, then everything else is gravy.

 Anyways, has anyone tried using the Compass with Sextetts? I really want to know if the Compass HP amp can power them or if I need to buy a separate tube amp.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I definitely think this is best. As long as Kingwa is okay with the redesign, then everything else is gravy._

 

Exactly. He has to build it! Kingwa gave me the go-ahead on this but I did overlook the shielding on the PSU (after measuring and checking everything else, blast!). Once that question is addressed it'll be done and over with.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At this point wouldn't the Musiland or Yulong DAC/Amp combos be more of comparison to the Zero now?_

 

Theres probably plenty of units out there that would match the Zero's price, Musiland SVDAC05 for example but it lacks line out, and then theres probably separate DAC + Amp combos that may be found at the price range


----------



## AudioPhewl

The directions this thread has taken in recent days has really put me off bothering with it. Personally, I like the design Kingwa did. Centralise the "Ear Out" and it'll be fine. It all makes sense(though ear-out is odd - but it's part of the character of the machine), and looks clean enough.

 All these icons... bleh. Not keen. I opted for number 8 because of this - it was the simplest and cleanest approach out of them all.

 I don't buy my motorbike based on the layout of the dials on the instrument cluster. So long as things are either obvious, or clearly labelled, it really is a very minor thing indeed.

 Moving knobs and LEDs a few mm? Come on...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Currawong

As far as I'm concerned, the discussion about changes, panels and kitchen sinks should end tonight (EU/US time). We're just going around in circles otherwise.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are any of the Audio-gd DACs multibit? If so, which ones?_

 

Any that use the PCM1704 DA chip. That's basically all except the Compass and DAC100.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry to digress from the question of 10mm difference in placement of knobs, but this is a question for currawong:

 based on your rating below for dacs, converted to a 0-100 scale,

 4 - ipod
 48 - zero dac (stock) 
 64 - compass 
 76 - lavry da-10 
 76 - benchmark dac 1 
 80 - northstar m192 
 96 - nakamichi dragon dac 

 where would the presonus central station, and maybe the meier audio cantate.2 and keces da152 fit in (not looking for an absolute scientific answer, just your opinion, even if it's an educated guess without any/much experience with the equipment)?_

 

I have no idea. I have never heard them and I wouldn't attempt to rate any gear I haven't heard. The best you could do is search for those things on head-fi and see if you can find any comparisons with any I've used.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of Corda, how much cost would it add to have an option for a crossfeed switch on Compass? Maybe crossfeed can be one of the optional upgrades like the current preamp out._

 

I don't think there is space for extra circuitry. We're too late for any more ideas.


----------



## Shoreman

_If you build it...they will come.

_But *please* just build it.


----------



## SOUNDinterpreter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shoreman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Build it...and they will come.

But *please* just build it._

 

i agree. i just want to enjoy the compass already.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paara* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What was the purpose with that response?, I just tried to contribute._

 

Ahh it was a Joke within Context of the current posts. Sorry you didn't enjoy it.

 .


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I'm concerned, the discussion about changes, panels and kitchen sinks should end tonight (EU/US time). We're just going around in circles otherwise._

 

Amen. The pre-existing meeting with supplier about new panels is over the weekend and I want to get these to Kingwa with plenty of time for him to do what he needs to do.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shoreman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Build it...and they will come.

But *please* just build it._

 

See above. The upgraded Compass should be coming soon, the order for new enclosures will come following Kingwa's meeting this weekend and I guess will apply to everything after the next 40 are sold (Kingwa is holding 40 of the original design for sale in China). Kingwa was already making panel changes so I don't see this causing a delay if get things done tonight.

 Kingwa says the only place the Super switch can't move is to the left (I assume he means from the back of the Compass because that would mean it would bump in to the PCB I think).

 With 76 responses to the poll so far #9 is winning with about 24%.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Where is the choice for the default panel as it stands now (provided the script get's fixed under the jack) ?

 This poll doesn't represent possible change, it ensures it no matter what version wins. That isn't fair to those of us that like the Compass just the way it is (on the front panel at least).

 This oversight can't be ignored IMO.

 Peete.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With all due respect here, those 80 Faceplates are flawed and are Beta's. So a Faceplate Face Lift is going to happen. There's time a plenty for that. 80 chassis have to be sold. Another day or two is no issue really. 

 The reasonable way to attack this issue is to ask Kingwa about what is doable within reason with respect to alignment. Work out the templates, have a poll, and see if Kingwa is interested. It is his product after all.

 ._

 

Agreed we only got rough dials and knobs in the early stages, we didn't know where the labels were going to be, so technically it was impossible to forsee this

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think there is space for extra circuitry. We're too late for any more ideas._

 

IIRC someone mentioned there was space for a secondary power supply at the back?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where is the choice for the default panel as it stands now (provided the script get's fixed under the jack) ?

 This poll doesn't represent possible change, it ensures it no matter what version wins. That isn't fair to those of us that like the Compass just the way it is (on the front panel at least).

 This oversight can't be ignored IMO.

 Peete._

 

How about those opposed to change of the panel, email CSROC or post in the thread and tally it up?

 .


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where is the choice for the default panel as it stands now (provided the script get's fixed under the jack) ?

 This poll doesn't represent possible change, it ensures it no matter what version wins. That isn't fair to those of us that like the Compass just the way it is (on the front panel at least).

 This oversight can't be ignored IMO.

 Peete._

 

I asked csroc and he said he can pit the winning custom panel with the default one in another vote.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll have to clear the responses to change that. We'll pit the final chosen one(s) against default then. That takes care of that!_


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Ok that's fine...thanks for adding that for us old timers that hate symbols and remember the days when Pioneer and Marantz had beautiful script on the panels...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

I found out about this forum and the compass by my roommate pointing me here. After reading most of this thread and the excellent reviews - I contacted Kingwa and he was very quick to answer my questions and I pulled the trigger. The looks didn't make a damn to me, but what intrigued me about this thread in the beginning was that it was a community effort and the fact that you guys were working closely with Kingwa on what you wanted the compass to be.

 Kingwa obviously wants to make a product that we want, wants our opinion so why should it hurt to provide those opinions. While it is true that cosmetics won't improve the sound, they don't hurt the sound either.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The directions this thread has taken in recent days has really put me off bothering with it. Personally, I like the design Kingwa did. Centralise the "Ear Out" and it'll be fine. It all makes sense(though ear-out is odd - but it's part of the character of the machine), and looks clean enough.

 All these icons... bleh. Not keen. I opted for number 8 because of this - it was the simplest and cleanest approach out of them all.

 I don't buy my motorbike based on the layout of the dials on the instrument cluster. So long as things are either obvious, or clearly labelled, it really is a very minor thing indeed.

 Moving knobs and LEDs a few mm? Come on...

 ~Phewl._

 

Same sentiment Phewl, seems to me this thread has turned from being a nice discussion of the Compass into some sort of superficial pageant discussion, Compass has become the tortured little girl in those lame child pageants.

 Music that sounded awesome today on the Compass: BT - Somnabulist (Sander Kleinenberg Remix). James Holden Balance 005 Album, the Bass is just so fast, tight, punchy, its glorious. Mmmm. Janes Addiction - Just Because, the fun is just jumping all over the place with this. Vocals excellent, you can definitely hear the his voice strain when he tries to reach the high notes and that extra Yeah! Hey you... Really shouldn't have known... fun fun. Solo guitar haha, yeah haven't had this much fun listening to this song in a while.

 Music that sounded like garbage on the Compass today: U2 - Streets Have no Name (Realized how craptastic mastering is on the Joshua Tree album. Overall all of U2 not so awesome, Bono definitely has Tinnitus, he can't hear how awful his record albums sound on a good system. Anyways I digress,

 Haven't listened to any Pearl Jam since getting the Compass, looking forward to it after I do a load of laundry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 - Will be listening to Ten and their new Self Titled Album (It really is quite good).


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Compass has become the tortured little girl in those lame child pageants._

 

that is classic, funniest thing I've heard all day.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

mbd you owe it to yourself to pick up the Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs remaster of The Joshua Tree. It doesn't cure all the ills of the original mastering but it cures most of them. Huge difference from the run of the mill recording which I agree is horrid.

 The only half decent recording other than the remaster is the followup Acthung Baby . Rattle and Hum is terrible as was Red Rocks. Live these guys sound damn good though as long as it's outdoors and not in a Cavernous Stadium/Arena.


 Peete.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm gonna drag you right back into it, joeoboe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 surprising that you don't speak highly of the presonus. many on this forum have the opinion that its dac performs just slightly poorer than the lavry and benchmark so it is like a $600 dac which sounds like a $800 one, with a free amp attached.

 of course, we all have different judgments in audio, but if what you and others say are both true, that would mean:

 you: compass>presonus
 others: presonus = $800 dac (loosely speaking)

 therefore,

 compass sounds like a $800 dac w/ decent amp.

 (i know this is obviously based on assumptions, not objective facts. please don't shoot me.)_

 

Actually I bought the Presonus before reading the reviews here. It is a nice and inexpensive piece which works well in a project studio... but I have never considered it amazing but competent and certainly not up to par with the Lavry or Mytek stuff.... I have not been that happy with the Benchmark myself... nice but a bit cold sounding.
 I was amused to read all the rave reviews on this site... I just don't hear it that way. I suppose I should be happier with it since I own it... but I just find it to be decent... not amamzing.... and the build quality is sort of weak.... not horrible... but sort of cheap.
 In any case, even the prototype Compass is MUCH better built and will only improve with the mods being offered with the next build.


----------



## haloxt

Of course improving the cosmetics isn't bad, the problem is all of us have different opinions of what looks good.

 Now the following things I'm listing ARE NOT COMPLAINTS, I just think these are things you perfectionists might like to know. The faceplate is actually almost 1/6th of an inch bigger on either side and like 1/15th on the top. On my chassis and at least one other, there's some itty bitty misalignment of the faceplate to the chassis, and light can shine through (I'm using a credit card to take measurements... it's 3/4th the thickness of my credit card all along the right faceplate and shrinks as you go to the left), the occasional dust mote and even strand of hair will go in (maybe a problem if you have a cat that sits on warm things because it will push dust and hair and things against the faceplate and fall inside). The heads of the screws on top stick up, which means you won't be able to scratch your compass like a good pet (come on, where's your sense of humor) without bumping into these six screws or the extra height of the faceplate. The four screws on the left and four screws on the right half their head half-sticking out, coupled with the enlarged faceplate, you won't be able to give a great big hug to the compass without feeling like the little red riding hood wondering why grandma imac suddenly has such big teeth.

 I REPEAT, THESE ARE NOT COMPLAINTS! Just letting you guys know since you guys are (amicably, I am happy you guys are so intent on improving a product) dedicating so much effort to cleaning up the faceplate, I just feel obligated to bring up these minor things because I don't want you guys to say us testers didn't provide enough info to make the physical appearance good enough.

 On a side note, does anyone know where I can buy Apple product paints? If it is feasible, I'd much appreciate it if csroc could do another poll for which ipod color haloxt should paint his compass (I'm serious! I hope you guys don't do voting fraud).

http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2008/7/ipod-nano-4g.jpg
http://trickledown.files.wordpress.c...e_450x3601.jpg

 edit: measured top of faceplate wrong.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mbd you owe it to yourself to pick up the Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs remaster of The Joshua Tree. It doesn't cure all the ills of the original mastering but it cures most of them. Huge difference from the run of the mill recording which I agree is horrid.

 The only half decent recording other than the remaster is the followup Acthung Baby . Rattle and Hum is terrible as was Red Rocks. Live these guys sound damn good though as long as it's outdoors and not in a Cavernous Stadium/Arena.


 Peete._

 

That is quite a price on that album. I was never a huge fan of U2 to begin with, will consider it though considering Joshua Tree is an iconic album. Thanks for letting me know this remaster work exists though.


----------



## Joeoboe

I must say that at one point I had been in discussion with Kingwa about an idea for the switches... overall a good idea that might be implemented some day in the future but not in the upcoming build.
 What amazed me was how some people just wanted to tell me NOT to have an idea. Now csroc has been doing some great work with panel design.... MUCH needed work that will be implemented when Kingwa makes another buy of faceplates. It is not going to hurt ANYTHING to give him a nice layout to use. I know he is already thinking about changes to the pc board layout, so perhaps this will fit right into his plans.... in any case, I don't understand why it is so important for some people to try to squash ideas. This is all good stuff that is causing NO problems to anyone and will potentially make the product better in the future. I say... MORE ideas people! Kingwa is an adult and professional who I respect enough to make the final decision on. He can't make final decisions on ideas that we don't present however!
 GREAT job csroc!


----------



## Joeoboe

Double post... sorry...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is quite a price on that album. I was never a huge fan of U2 to begin with, will consider it though considering Joshua Tree is an iconic album. Thanks for letting me know this remaster work exists though._

 

Look for the FLAC EAC rip on bitorrent to sample before yo buy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look for the FLAC EAC rip on bitorrent to sample before yo buy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete._

 

Oh no you didn't... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Generally speaking the MFSL discs and LPs are something special. Have many in the ol' collection.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Just got an email from Kingwa, seems they negotiated lower shipping rates with DHL & EMS so those that have all ready paid for the next shipment will get a refund for the difference in shipping, 8USD.


----------



## ScottieB

Wow! As if the guy needed more reasons for people to like him! This is service above and beyond!


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ On a side note, does anyone know where I can buy Apple product paints? If it is feasible, I'd much appreciate it if csroc could do another poll for which ipod color haloxt should paint his compass (I'm serious! I hope you guys don't do voting fraud)._

 


Apple Paint, Apple Mac Products, iPod Accessories

 Hehe, sorry couldn't resist.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I must say that at one point I had been in discussion with Kingwa about an idea for the switches... overall a good idea that might be implemented some day in the future but not in the upcoming build.
 What amazed me was how some people just wanted to tell me NOT to have an idea. Now csroc has been doing some great work with panel design.... MUCH needed work that will be implemented when Kingwa makes another buy of faceplates. It is not going to hurt ANYTHING to give him a nice layout to use. I know he is already thinking about changes to the pc board layout, so perhaps this will fit right into his plans.... in any case, I don't understand why it is so important for some people to try to squash ideas. This is all good stuff that is causing NO problems to anyone and will potentially make the product better in the future. I say... MORE ideas people! Kingwa is an adult and professional who I respect enough to make the final decision on. He can't make final decisions on ideas that we don't present however!
 GREAT job csroc!_

 

The same thing happened with the Pre-amp outs. Screaming and Yelling to the person who suggested it.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got an email from Kingwa, seems they negotiated lower shipping rates with DHL & EMS so those that have all ready paid for the next shipment will get a refund for the difference in shipping, 8USD._

 

I just got that too, told him to keep it and re-invest.

 .


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Those of you that have the compass, what difference (if any) did you get with/without the aftermarket cable?

 Will the gain options be lower this next build?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same sentiment Phewl, seems to me this thread has turned from being a nice discussion of the Compass into some sort of superficial pageant discussion, Compass has become the tortured little girl in those lame child pageants._

 

Your opinion is duly noted, however Kingwa thinks these improvements should help future sales of the Compass, regardless of whether it's the original design refined or a new design, he wants our feedback.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where is the choice for the default panel as it stands now (provided the script get's fixed under the jack) ?

 This poll doesn't represent possible change, it ensures it no matter what version wins. That isn't fair to those of us that like the Compass just the way it is (on the front panel at least).

 This oversight can't be ignored IMO.

 Peete._

 

Panel 9 won the last poll:






 As promised a page or two ago, here are the finalists. The first one is the original panel design on the test units with the positions centered and all the bottom labels aligned. Other than that it shouldn't look any different from the original hopefully.






 Here is the really hopefully final front panel poll:

Finalists... PLEASE VOTE, THIS WILL NOT BE UP AS LONG AS THE LAST POLL

 As always let me know if there's a problem.


 This is the rear panel, by the way:






 Since there has been limited feedback on the rear and it seems to cover all the bases without deviating much from Kingwa's design I would consider it final. Since stickers were originally part of the plan for labeling the rear switches, if someone opts to have a different configuration for the front and rear buttons, they can use stickers to modify the rear labeling. This way, the majority of people who wanted bypass on the front get a nice silkscreened rear panel


----------



## mlarn

See above. The upgraded Compass should be coming soon, the order for new enclosures will come following Kingwa's meeting this weekend and I guess will apply to everything after the next 40 are sold (Kingwa is holding 40 of the original design for sale in China). Kingwa was already making panel changes so I don't see this causing a delay if get things done tonight.
 [/QUOTE]

 Can someone clear this up for me, please? So Kingwa is going to sell the original batch before any changes are made, right? And there are 80 original units total (40 reserved for China and 40 more for worldwide)? 
 And the only changes between the first batch of 80 and those after are the cosmetic changes now being discussed. Is this right?
 Thank you for all the great info on this exciting project.


----------



## Currawong

I voted #3. I'm sure the switches can't be moved up. I'm ambivalent though. The icons do make it look funky.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On a side note, does anyone know where I can buy Apple product paints?_

 

Apple's products aren't painted, last I looked, or did I misunderstand your question?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got an email from Kingwa, seems they negotiated lower shipping rates with DHL & EMS so those that have all ready paid for the next shipment will get a refund for the difference in shipping, 8USD._

 

Nice work!


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mlarn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone clear this up for me, please? So Kingwa is going to sell the original batch before any changes are made, right? And there are 80 original units total (40 reserved for China and 40 more for worldwide)? 
 And the only changes between the first batch of 80 and those after are the cosmetic changes now being discussed. Is this right?
 Thank you for all the great info on this exciting project._

 

Other than these cosmetic changes I don't know of any other differences.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I voted #3. I'm sure the switches can't be moved up. I'm ambivalent though. The icons do make it look funky._

 

I verified that with Kingwa several times, including a picture I took of my compass with a diagram on it just to be sure. I'm sure by the end of that he was wondering why I seem so worried. He seems to be fine with moving the switches up. Yes it would require a minor modification to the transformer shielding but that didn't seem to phase him.


----------



## jron

My vote went to the original design... I wish more of you showed better taste in the first poll! 2nd post and I'm already making friends! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps once this thing takes off (and it will), he can sell new plate designs for some extra income. I just want mine NOW!


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IApple's products aren't painted, last I looked, or did I misunderstand your question?_

 

I want to know where I can buy paint that looks like Apple products. It'd have to be lead-free and not go crazy from the heat produced by the compass too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My vote went to the original design... I wish more of you showed better taste in the first poll! 2nd post and I'm already making friends! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps once this thing takes off (and it will), he can sell new plate designs for some extra income. I just want mine NOW!_

 

You'll still get yours now, this should result in no delay as far as I understand.


----------



## jron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You'll still get yours now, this should result in no delay as far as I understand._

 

csroc, I saw you mention that this wouldn't cause a delay in an older post. My reasoning for voting for the original design wasn't because I like it, I simply can't stand the superman logo in the new designs for the bypass switch.


----------



## csroc

Superman wasn't my choice either, I liked a simple switch symbol, but superman won out. I think I at least managed to tone it down for the designs a bit.


----------



## jron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Superman wasn't my choice either, I liked a simple switch symbol, but superman won out. I think I at least managed to tone it down for the designs a bit._

 

Yeah, I liked the switch icon too.


----------



## Crikey

Its a bit OT but I found another pic by the artist in King wa's forum. It's quite interesting, I'm not sure what it's supposed to mean with peete's name on the sash (?). Discuss! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










 There's another with peete/Curra serving as the spokesman in an ad.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crikey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its a bit OT but I found another pic by the artist in King wa's forum. It's quite interesting, I'm not sure what it's supposed to mean with peete's name on the sash (?). Discuss! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







_

 

With Peace Doves flying overhead!

 .


----------



## csroc

Those drawings are great... i have no idea what it means either but I find it kind of funny and the style is neat.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finalists... PLEASE VOTE, THIS WILL NOT BE UP AS LONG AS THE LAST POLL_

 

Remember, vote if you haven't already! This will probably be up another hour or hour and a half. Currently 26 people have voted.


----------



## csommers

+1 on those drawings, really comical


----------



## Crikey

there's actually more of those pics about the ads in the forum. It becomes more of a cartoon. Heres the link:
Compass¹úÍâ²âÆÀ[ºÎÇì»ªDIY¼¼ÊõÂÛÌ³]

 I didn't include those because I didn't want to take up too much space here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: If you look closely, peete/Curra is featured in everything slide of the cartoon


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Where's my shotgun..... Squab for dinner tonight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's pretty funny.....

 Peete


----------



## senn_liu

i find it kinda creepy, like the artist has some weird crush on peete, but that's just me.

 joeoboe, are you using the presonus central station or the hp4? just wanted to clarify...

 from what you said, i guess if you had to choose to buy either the compass or a central station for personal (not studio) listening, you would choose the compass?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of Corda, how much cost would it add to have an option for a crossfeed switch on Compass? Maybe crossfeed can be one of the optional upgrades like the current preamp out._

 

I think you're seriously underestimating how complicated the design of a crossfeed-circuit is. Or at least, how complicated it is to do it _well_. I think the general consensus is that Jan Meier's crossfeed design is the only one that doesn't degrade sound quality too badly (and he licensed it to Headroom, so it's in their products as well). Still, it will never be a purist option, because even Jan Meier's best efforts cause a reduction in bass focus, general separation and detail. But the main point is, that it would take a serious design effort from Kingwa to come up with a good crossfeed circuit of his own. Maybe someday, if the headphone market proves particularly profitable to him. It certainly would be interesting if he could come up with an even beter design than that of Jan.

 I have actually, in preparation for listening to the Compass, weened myself of crossfeed and I don't think I will go back. Once I got used to listening without it, I started to appreciate the significant sonic benefits that come with switching it off.


----------



## Drosera

Those cartoons are real works of art, you can spend a long while coming up with interpretations for them.

 Is there anything relevant written in the Chinese script of the first cartoon? Or is that just the artists name in characters?

 And what the hell is that woman doing in the dumpster in the second one?? (Or is that just my sick interpretation?)


----------



## csroc

Currently design 2 is winning with 43.9% of 41 votes.

 If you haven't voted yet get to it! I'm closing this in 15-20 minutes probably.


----------



## dBs

Awwww, Pricklely Petes rosy cheeks!


----------



## Toe Tag

If the new faceplate moves more than a couple parts, it won't be usable with the first generation Compass. Will audio-gd be selling replacement faceplates or not? I'll pay extra for a second faceplate just to get things moving. Otherwise there's going to be 20 pages of discussion about if and when the initial 40 old style faceplates sold out. 

 I just got my price quote for direct payment to hong kong in RMB and shipment to Taiwan. (Incidentally the mhdt guys will not sell to me locally). The compass isn't on their price list. If and when do I specify Earth, Moon, Sun...?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awwww, Pricklely Petes rosy cheeks!_

 

Well it is pretty cold out around here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those drawings are great... i have no idea what it means either but I find it kind of funny and the style is neat._

 

That drawing of the continent looks a lot like a giant cookie my daughter baked for me but decided to eat some of it before she handed it over to me a few months back (XMAS time). Dang it, now I want chocolate chip cookie...

 LOL....

 Peete.

 PS 2001 A Space Odyssey .....talk about coincidence


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crikey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_there's actually more of those pics about the ads in the forum. It becomes more of a cartoon. Heres the link:
Compass¹úÍâ²âÆÀ[ºÎÇì»ªDIY¼¼ÊõÂÛÌ³]

 I didn't include those because I didn't want to take up too much space here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: If you look closely, peete/Curra is featured in everything slide of the cartoon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

These are too funny. We should get the artist to design the Special Edition Peete/Curra faceplate!


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toe Tag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the new faceplate moves more than a couple parts, it won't be usable with the first generation Compass. Will audio-gd be selling replacement faceplates or not? I'll pay extra for a second faceplate just to get things moving. Otherwise there's going to be 20 pages of discussion about if and when the initial 40 old style faceplates sold out._

 

To be honest the ability to retrofit to the original Compass was not part of the plan and at this point I don't think it will become a part of the plan. Still, if one wants to install the new front panel they should hopefully only need to trim some of the power supply shielding if design #2 wins (which it currently is). The other designs shouldn't pose any issues for anyone looking to upgrade.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toe Tag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my price quote for direct payment to hong kong in RMB and shipment to Taiwan. (Incidentally the mhdt guys will not sell to me locally). The compass isn't on their price list. If and when do I specify Earth, Moon, Sun...?_

 

Did you get the quote from Kingwa?
 I must say it's not exactly clear to me anymore if the Moon is still the default option for the Compass. Maybe it will have switched to Earth, maybe there isn't a real default anymore. Anyways, discuss which opamp you want when you discuss the order with Kingwa.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These are too funny. We should get the artist to design the Special Edition Peete/Curra faceplate! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Imagine the colors!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That drawing of the continent looks a lot like a giant cookie my daughter baked for me but decided to eat some of it before she handed it over to me a few months back (XMAS time). Dang it, now I want chocolate chip cookie..._

 

That's China, Peete! (But maybe you _did_ notice that.)

 Somewhat similar to Texas in the pic below, but more realistic in scale.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currently design 2 is winning with 43.9% of 41 votes.

 If you haven't voted yet get to it! I'm closing this in 15-20 minutes probably._

 

I think you should let the poll run for at least 12 hours or overnight so the folks halfway around the world can catch up with the reading. Not everyone is checking this thread every hour.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I think the Earth is now standard although I could be wrong about that.

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you should let the poll run for at least 12 hours or overnight so the folks halfway around the world can catch up with the reading. Not everyone is checking this thread every hour._

 

Agreed, some of you Americans will have gone to bed already (I hope). And I could only vote because I get out of bed very early over here in W Europe.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's China, Peete! (But maybe you did notice that.)

 Somewhat similar to Texas in the pic below, but more realistic in scale.




_

 

All I could see was that great big 1/4 eaten CChip cookie.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## jron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you should let the poll run for at least 12 hours or overnight so the folks halfway around the world can catch up with the reading. Not everyone is checking this thread every hour._

 

I have a feeling the superman trend is quite established. If the vote isn't close, let's just end this debate and get the specs out.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

I placed my order last week. I wanted to order all three opamps, Kingwa told me that it comes default with the moon. Don't know if thats changed since.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

does the audio-gd aftermarket cable make that big of a difference?

 what are the gain settings going to be now?


----------



## jron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I placed my order last week. I wanted to order all three opamps, Kingwa told me that it comes default with the moon. Don't know if thats changed since._

 

How much were the additional opamps?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I placed my order last week. I wanted to order all three opamps, Kingwa told me that it comes default with the moon. Don't know if thats changed since._

 

Ah, well I guess the Moon will still be default then. At least until the reviewing and redesigning process is rounded off completely.

 Wise choice to get all those opamps, you're basically buying three DACs in one then.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does the audio-gd aftermarket cable make that big of a difference?_

 

Apparently it makes a difference. If that difference is worth 60$ to you, you can only find out by trying it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what are the gain settings going to be now?_

 

I think the final results of the last gain poll have not been published yet.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much were the additional opamps?_

 

they were 20usd each.


----------



## Crikey

The chinese in the pic with the doves and the earth says something to the same effect as "epic review".

 The women is actually an ad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 They (peete and the other guy from audio-gd [which i assume is King wa]) replaced that ad with the audio-gd one. You'll get it if you see the rest of the pics in the cartoon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those cartoons are real works of art, you can spend a long while coming up with interpretations for them.

 Is there anything relevant written in the Chinese script of the first cartoon? Or is that just the artists name in characters?

 And what the hell is that woman doing in the dumpster in the second one?? (Or is that just my sick interpretation?) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Check this page......jron...with purchase of Compass you get a discount on extra modules.

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 Page a takes a bit to load but scroll down a bit.

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you should let the poll run for at least 12 hours or overnight so the folks halfway around the world can catch up with the reading. Not everyone is checking this thread every hour._

 

I can do that, although based on the past polls I don't expect it to change much over night. I started it around 10-10:30 PM so I can call an end to it in the morning after I get up (so that probably gives it another 9-10 hours since I won't get to it right away).


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, well I guess the Moon will still be default then. At least until the reviewing and redesigning process is rounded off completely.

 Wise choice to get all those opamps, you're basically buying three DACs in one then._

 

I have to give Big D credit for that one, he schooled me about them.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the Earth is now standard although I could be wrong about that.

 Peete._

 

This is what I was told in an email from Kingwa yesterday...


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is what I was told in an email from Kingwa yesterday..._

 

thanks ScottieB, good to know - i'm sure Kingwa will switch but I'm going to double check.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crikey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The chinese in the pic with the doves and the earth says something to the same effect as "epic review".

 The women is actually an ad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They (peete and the other guy from audio-gd [which i assume is King wa 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




]) replaced that ad with the audio-gd one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You'll get it if you see the rest of the pics in the cartoon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ah, thanks! I don't know if I'm relieved or disappointed now. Being familiar with Hong Kong horror movies I had expected some more weirdness.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, thanks! I don't know if I'm relieved or disappointed now. Being familiar with Hong Kong horror movies I had expected some more weirdness. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I'll bet Hong Kong Horror Films would be real interesting! Do you have a Western name for one that would be a good representative?

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to give Big D credit for that one, he schooled me about them._

 

Big D?? Now why does that immediately conjure up the image of an enormous guy with even bigger gold chains.


----------



## ScottieB

Personally the flavor of wacky Japanese cinema (mostly horror but others as well) appeals to me more (Miike! -- see avatar!) but I do love asian cinema of all kinds.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll bet Hong Kong Horror Films would be real interesting! Do you have a Western name for one that would be a good representative?._

 

For something that will turn your stomach around a few times: Rikki-O: The Story of Ricky.

 For some classic and hilarious Kung Fu-horror: Mr. Vampire (make sure to get the first one)

 For something more in the Japanese style: The Eye

 Admittedly, I'm more at home in classic Kung Fu.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Personally the flavor of wacky Japanese cinema (mostly horror but others as well) appeals to me more (Miike! -- see avatar!) but I do love asian cinema of all kinds._

 

Yes, really liking your avatar.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For something that will turn your stomach around a few times: Rikki-O: The Story of Ricky.

 For some classic and hilarious Kung Fu-horror: Mr. Vampire (make sure to get the first one)

 For something more in the Japanese style: The Eye

 Admittedly, I'm more at home in classic Kung Fu._

 

Heh! Thanx!

 Off to the races!!

 .


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can do that, although based on the past polls I don't expect it to change much over night. I started it around 10-10:30 PM so I can call an end to it in the morning after I get up (so that probably gives it another 9-10 hours since I won't get to it right away)._

 

That's fine. Get some sleep and when you're back online, just shut down the survey. That should be enough time for those interested to speak up and vote.

 BTW, were the poll results for the gain settings revealed?


----------



## WC Annihilus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Big D?? Now why does that immediately conjure up the image of an enormous guy with even bigger gold chains. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

That actually makes me think of Harry Potter >.>


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apparently it makes a difference. If that difference is worth 60$ to you, you can only find out by trying it._

 

I reread Peete's review and the answer was right there, I guess I will have to find out.

 Ha Big D will love hearing that. Actually wait till he reads it on here and see what he says.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's fine. Get some sleep and when you're back online, just shut down the survey. That should be enough time for those interested to speak up and vote.

 BTW, were the poll results for the gain settings revealed?_

 

This is one I'd like to know as well...but if I had to guess I would imagine the 9/15 settings ( I hope ) took the honors.

 Peete.


----------



## Toe Tag

Appreciate the replies. I'll ask for the moon. I mean, the earth and sun. 136RMB each if you want extra OPAs. Currency estimator at xe.com. And/or you can specify what you want in your Compass.

 So, if no option to order and retrofit the new faceplate, I'll just wait until they burn through the 40 domestic and 40 international models with the old faceplate. I guess in a few months this will all be forgotten anyway and all the mk.II (any official name to designate the new model?) will benefit from moving the knobs.

 Wow I searched for MFSL, they've remastered a lot of albums. Velvet Underground, Santana, Traffic, U2, here I come! Yikes they even have Meddle! If only they still made quaaludes...


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is one I'd like to know as well...but if I had to guess I would imagine the 9/15 settings ( I hope ) took the honors.

 Peete._

 

They did.

 9dB won low gain with 48 votes and 15dB won high gain with 47 votes. None of the other gains had more than 3 votes.


----------



## senn_liu

*joeoboe*, are you using the presonus central station or the hp4? you commented on the central station but on your info page only the hp4 is listed. just wanted to clarify because you seemed underwhelmed in your comments, but hp4 is a much lower range product than the central station.

 from what you said, i guess if you had to choose to buy either the compass or a central station for personal (not studio) listening, you would choose the compass?

 looking forward to these comparisons:

 joeoboe - compass vs presonus central station
 drosera - compass vs meier corda opera

 wondering how the compass will fare against products in a higher price bracket.


----------



## direcow

Tried asking kingwa to make a power cord with the UK head, and he actually went out to buy some from the market and checked with me if the condition was ok... they didn't look too good, so I didn't go ahead with the power cable purchase, and kingwa asked me not to worry about paying for those plugs he bought...

 fantastic service! Come to think of it, me rejecting his paypal refund might be a good idea.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tried asking kingwa to make a power cord with the UK head, and he actually went out to buy some from the market and checked with me if the condition was ok... they didn't look too good, so I didn't go ahead with the power cable purchase, and kingwa asked me not to worry about paying for those plugs he bought...

 fantastic service! Come to think of it, me rejecting his paypal refund might be a good idea._

 

Well you could actually do that, but then don't be surprised if you find an extra opamp in your package !!..


----------



## indie_big_wig

If I order one of the additional opamps will I need to get a solder gun out to switch between them or will be a nice simple case of flicking a switch? 

 I'm really not confident with my solder skills when it comes to come £200 equipment so I don't want to waste the cash on the opamp if I have to get the gun out.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indie_big_wig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I order one of the additional opamps will I need to get a solder gun out to switch between them or will be a nice simple case of flicking a switch?_

 

Neither, you plug it in a socket and attach the ground wire with a small screw to the PCB. So you only need a simple screwdriver (Philips head). (And I believe attaching the ground wire is not even strictly necessary.) Just take care to plug it in the right way round, otherwise the DAC and/or opamp can get damaged. Things are illustrated with photographs on the Compass page of the Audio-gd website.


----------



## indie_big_wig

Brilliant, thanks for that. I saw it on the website but just wanted to make sure it was that simple. 

 Think I'll be ordering the additional opams then as at $20 they seem like a steal.


----------



## ExtraNice

Does anybody have a hard date as to when the new faceplate'd products are coming out?
 If I'm going to buy one, Imma go for the new one.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anybody have a hard date as to when the new faceplate'd products are coming out?
 If I'm going to buy one, Imma go for the new one._

 

Even if the Compass will get the new faceplate, first all the old versions will have to be sold. Which might mean you would have to wait a little, depending on sales rate.
 But why wait? The faceplate won't influence how the Compass sounds. Who knows, those old face-plated Compasses might become relatively rare. A collectors item!


----------



## ExtraNice

That's a good point...
 But I'm a shallow person, I like good looking things. 
 But then, the change doesn't really make the product look at much nicer...

 If this product looked more polished (brushed aluminum! [Love my Sony]) I would have bought it in a snap. But... take some, lose some, eh?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even if the Compass will get the new faceplate, first all the old versions will have to be sold. Which might mean you would have to wait a little, depending on sales rate.
 But why wait? The faceplate won't influence how the Compass sounds. Who knows, those old face-plated Compasses might become relatively rare. A collectors item!_

 

talking about face plates, I suggested Kingwa to have a collection of faceplates - like 6 of them and offer them to customers when they place an order - boutique style. custom made stuffs.. if a customer feels like, he could pick up all 6 and use them according to his moods, like my I-Pod (I didn't say apple) - I said if he is thinking going International he has to keep in his mind the style factor too.. Yeah I wrote to him, although I havent yet received a reply, maybe cant figure out a suitable reply..

 Edit - talking about collectors item maybe Peete and myself can sell ours at Southebys after 50 years, after all I think we will still keep the old Compass with preamp out..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_talking about face plates, I suggested Kingwa to have a collection of faceplates - like 6 of them and offer them to customers when they place an order - boutique style. custom made stuffs.. if a customer feels like, he could pick up all 6 and use them according to his moods, like my I-Pod (I didn't say apple) - I said if he is thinking going International he has to keep in his mind the style factor too.. Yeah I wrote to him, although I havent yet received a reply, maybe cant figure out a suitable reply.._

 

If, and only if it's practicable, a choice of black or silver might be nice, down the track.

 Better still though, why not a Hello Kitty version for people in Hong Kong and Taiwan? (I'm sure Kingwa will get this, not sure you all will.)


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_talking about face plates, I suggested Kingwa to have a collection of faceplates - like 6 of them and offer them to customers when they place an order - boutique style. custom made stuffs.. if a customer feels like, he could pick up all 6 and use them according to his moods, like my I-Pod (I didn't say apple) - I said if he is thinking going International he has to keep in his mind the style factor too.. Yeah I wrote to him, although I havent yet received a reply, maybe cant figure out a suitable reply.._

 

Oh goodness, it almost sounds like a parody. I rather pity the people who would think the looks of the Compass were that important.
 Then again, if Kingwa feels this is a good thing...

 Make sure there's a camouflage version too. People can pair it with their Skullcandy phones with bullets on the headband.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*joeoboe*, are you using the presonus central station or the hp4? you commented on the central station but on your info page only the hp4 is listed. just wanted to clarify because you seemed underwhelmed in your comments, but hp4 is a much lower range product than the central station.

 from what you said, i guess if you had to choose to buy either the compass or a central station for personal (not studio) listening, you would choose the compass?

 looking forward to these comparisons:

 joeoboe - compass vs presonus central station
 drosera - compass vs meier corda opera

 wondering how the compass will fare against products in a higher price bracket._

 

I don't list any of the stuff from my project studio in my profile. The HP4 originally was in my studio with a separate Presonus DAC . I liked the patching options with the Central Station and so the HP4 moved over to one of my computers... where it is used primarily to burn in new headphones!
 The HP4 amps are basically now built in to the Central Station ( specs are identical)... I have not taken the cover off of the Central Station but I suspect they are EXACTLY the same... the sure act the same with different headphones. Don't ge me wrong... nice piece of gear. 
 It is just is not the same sort of thing as the Compass. The Compass is clearly a custom designed (not mass produced) piece of electronics with all discrete components. I have not brought the Compass to the studio to do any comparisons but I was planning on getting the "upgrade" production Compass and had thought of moving the prototype over to the studio just as a personal headphone monitor... not really sure how practical that would end up being... due to it only having a single headphone out... but it was one of my ideas that I have been kicking around.
 So... in summary the Central Station is nice and is made primarily to facilitate RECORDING and playback with multiple ins and outs so it can be hooked up in a variety of ways. The Compass is a custom designed, hand -made , DAC/AMP with headphone listening as its main purpose ( and some nice preamp and DAC options also). They are really two completely different animals in design and purpose, although there is overlap in what they both do.


----------



## ExtraNice

Not saying looks are important but they definitely add to the buying power. Not to mention it looks better on display. 

  Quote:


 Better still though, why not a Hello Kitty version for people in Hong Kong and Taiwan? (I'm sure Kingwa will get this, not sure you all will.) 
 

You'll probably get sued.


----------



## sandchak

I wasn't kidding really... whatever.., I mean putting up 6 designs for polls which show 25% as majority, then the remaining 75% is a minority - right??.. I am sure if he keeps a collection, 100% would be happy (just pick and go) if thats what the whole issue is about.. which includes boring people like me happy with whatever Compass is as of now..


----------



## ExtraNice

Not saying looks are important but they definitely add to the buying power. Not to mention it looks better on display. 

  Quote:


 Better still though, why not a Hello Kitty version for people in Hong Kong and Taiwan? (I'm sure Kingwa will get this, not sure you all will.) 
 

You'll probably get sued. 


 RAHHH, Double Post. Slow and laggy internet.


----------



## senn_liu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tried asking kingwa to make a power cord with the UK head, and he actually went out to buy some from the market and checked with me if the condition was ok... they didn't look too good, so I didn't go ahead with the power cable purchase, and kingwa asked me not to worry about paying for those plugs he bought...

 fantastic service! Come to think of it, me rejecting his paypal refund might be a good idea._

 

i ordered the power cable, and i live in singapore, which has the same voltage from electricity sockets as the u.k. 

 does the cable only work with u.s. type sockets?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i ordered the power cable, and i live in singapore, which has the same voltage from electricity sockets as the u.k. 

 does the cable only work with u.s. type sockets?_

 

Yes..unless you buy an adapter.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wasn't kidding really... whatever.., I mean putting up 6 designs for polls which show 25% as majority, then the remaining 75% is a minority - right??.. I am sure if he keeps a collection, 100% would be happy (just pick and go) if thats what the whole issue is about.. which includes boring people like me happy with whatever Compass is as of now.._

 

Yes, you were kidding...really you were...I assure you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You'll probably get sued. _

 

I knew people wouldn't get the joke.


----------



## ExtraNice

mmm?

 I thought he customized the cable depending on where you lived.

 I know Hello Kitty is very popular in Hong Kong, and there are a lot of fakes, but no, I'm not in on the joke. 

 Although my parents are from Hong Kong and I go back there every year or so.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mmm?

 I thought he customized the cable depending on where you lived._

 

offcourse, it meant for wherever you live [size=xx-small]with an adapter[/size]


----------



## ExtraNice

ahh poopy.


----------



## senn_liu

sorry, but i know next to nothing about this.

 i only need an adaptor plug? no need to worry about the power rating being 120V or 230V? the cable is obviously meant for the US, which has 120V electricity from their sockets, while singapore's is 230V.

 i know i'm displaying my ignorance, but....


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry, but i know next to nothing about this.

 i only need an adaptor plug? no need to worry about the power rating being 120V or 230V? the cable is obviously meant for the US, which has 120V electricity from their sockets, while singapore's is 230V.

 i know i'm displaying my ignorance, but....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, don't worry, you only need an adapter plug to make it fit in your wallsocket, that's all.

 I thought the UK had 240V by the way? (Just curious, because I was recently wondering to how many voltages Kingwa is customizing his equipment. Just 110 and 220? Or maybe also 230, 240... Should ask Kingwa.)


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry, but i know next to nothing about this.

 i only need an adaptor plug? no need to worry about the power rating being 120V or 230V? the cable is obviously meant for the US, which has 120V electricity from their sockets, while singapore's is 230V.

 i know i'm displaying my ignorance, but....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It will work on any voltage, you just need an adapter or a US socket (if you dont live in the US), so that the cable can be plugged in..

 EDIT - Ok since Drosera beat me again.. I'll take the other part.. don't worry about ignorance - we all are, in some way or the other - I am so sure..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, you were kidding...really you were...I assure you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







 I knew people wouldn't get the joke._

 

Joke, what Joke???






 .


----------



## SoFGR

good news 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "Shipping cost is lower than yesterday.
Audio-GD(REIZ Audio) Parent Company
 Ship to greece price is USD60,
 Ship to bulgaria price is USD75.
 Sorry I don't have DT770.
 We have 220-240 version and 100-120 version.
 I think it will show on our web at the end of Feb."

 I asked them about what's the best opamp out of those 3 but they said that they don't have dt770s PRO 80omh so they could not answer that question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 does anybody here has an experience with all 3 opamps provided ? i want to pick the best one for 3d imaging and bass quantity 

 Europeans should get the 220-240v version right ? btw since when power cables affect sound quality ? :S


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT - Ok since Drosera beat me again.._

 

Yeah, we should arrange this better. Such as: you take the voltage and input questions, I take the gain and opamp questions.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joke, what Joke???






 ._

 

[size=x-large]*OMG*[/size]

 And the Testarossa wasn't a very good car to begin with.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, don't worry, you only need an adapter plug to make it fit in your wallsocket, that's all.

 I thought the UK had 240V by the way? (Just curious, because I was recently wondering to how many voltages Kingwa is customizing his equipment. Just 110 and 220? Or maybe also 230, 240... Should ask Kingwa.)_

 

Yeah, it's 230V in Singapore, same as the UK, and you can use the wire as long as you have the adapter. Thing is, I was trying to avoid using adapters which can be shoddily made... it's a vain attempt to keep everything as pure as possible.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, we should arrange this better. Such as: you take the voltage and input questions, I take the gain and opamp questions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wont be needed.. I think our time is up.. we are like night watchmen of this thread till the guys on the other side of the world wakes up..and it seems like they have..


----------



## oldschool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good news 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Shipping cost is lower than yesterday.

 Ship to greece price is USD60,
 Ship to bulgaria price is USD75.

 Europeans should get the 220-240v version right ? btw since when power cables affect sound quality ? :S_

 

Sweet, thanks!

 220V for Europe, for what I know.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_btw since when power cables affect sound quality ? :S_

 

Since cable producers want you to believe so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 To each his own.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ship to greece price is USD60,
 Ship to bulgaria price is USD75._

 

Well, now we know, Greece is not Eastern Europe.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We have 220-240 version and 100-120 version._

 

That answers my question from a few posts back.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked them about what's the best opamp out of those 3 but they said that they don't have dt770s PRO 80omh so they could not answer that question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 does anybody here has an experience with all 3 opamps provided ? i want to pick the best one for 3d imaging and bass quantity_

 

Hmmm, that might be problematic, bass quantity will probably destroy most of the imaging/soundstage. For some in-depth stuff on the opamps you could read Majkels opamp review. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Europeans should get the 220-240v version right ?_

 

Yup, most of Europe's 230V now, and I believe the UK is 240V.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_btw since when power cables affect sound quality ? :S_

 

It's magic!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wont be needed.. I think our time is up.. we are like night watchmen of this thread till the guys on the other side of the world wakes up_

 

Ah, you noticed that too.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[size=x-large]*OMG*[/size]

 And the Testarossa wasn't a very good car to begin with._

 

You're right, it wasn't much of a car. You can get them dirt cheap now. You just have to pay for the Tune-up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## csroc

The poll didn't change much, like I suspected. More votes, same general distribution.

 With 57.3% of 82 votes so far I do believe panel 2 has taken it. 






 The panels in question:


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good news 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "Shipping cost is lower than yesterday.
Audio-GD(REIZ Audio) Parent Company
 Ship to greece price is USD60,
 Ship to bulgaria price is USD75.
 Sorry I don't have DT770.
 We have 220-240 version and 100-120 version.
 I think it will show on our web at the end of Feb."

 I asked them about what's the best opamp out of those 3 but they said that they don't have dt770s PRO 80omh so they could not answer that question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 does anybody here has an experience with all 3 opamps provided ? i want to pick the best one for 3d imaging and bass quantity 

 Europeans should get the 220-240v version right ? btw since when power cables affect sound quality ? :S_

 

It's hard to go far astray with the Earth. You could get the Earth in the box and the SUN or Moon on the side, or both on the side. The Promo deal gets these for Half price and you can always sell them for what you paid for them.

 .


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If, and only if it's practicable, a choice of black or silver might be nice, down the track.

 Better still though, why not a Hello Kitty version for people in Hong Kong and Taiwan? (I'm sure Kingwa will get this, not sure you all will.)_

 

Black and silver would make sense, there are plenty of companies that offer those choices but also plenty that don't. I don't know if Audio-gd offers that choice on any of their other products.

 Hello Kitty though, now that would be hilarious! Awful, but hilarious.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Black and silver would make sense, there are plenty of companies that offer those choices but also plenty that don't. I don't know if Audio-gd offers that choice on any of their other products._

 

Actually he does, like the S1 integrated amp..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Black and silver would make sense, there are plenty of companies that offer those choices but also plenty that don't. I don't know if Audio-gd offers that choice on any of their other products.

 Hello Kitty though, now that would be hilarious! Awful, but hilarious._

 

You could be famous in the Reisz Forum, maybe surpass Peete!


 .


----------



## csroc

Hello Kitty could work







 haha


----------



## haloxt

To discount the possibility of voting fraud (I'm kind of surprised so many people voted) I think we should do a poll _inside_ the forum where we can see who is voting. And also we should put a longer time limit so more people can vote.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Kitty could work


 haha[/i]
 [/td] [/tr] [/table]


D@mn, why didn't we think of that before!_


----------



## jron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Kitty could work_

 

Looks better than the superman icon


----------



## Crikey

OMG that is the best design so far. csroc i say you take advantage of your position as designer and choose the hello kitty version as the final design. The rest of our opinions don't matter (aside from mine that is). It looks much better then the other designs with the superman-esque logo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


























 /sarcasm


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To discount the possibility of voting fraud (I'm kind of surprised so many people voted) I think we should do a poll inside the forum where we can see who is voting. And also we should put a longer time limit so more people can vote._

 

The previous poll had 85 votes last time I looked so this one hasn't caught up yet. I highly doubt there's voter fraud going on (or much) and I'm not sure that knowing what each other voted on matters.

 Plus I am not the only one that wants to see this end so we can move on.


----------



## haloxt

It'd be easy for a single person to make most of the votes, but not so on this forum because they'd have to keep making new nicknames and we'd know. Besides, voting time should reasonably be at least 2 full days.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It'd be easy for a single person to make most of the votes, but not so on this forum because they'd have to keep making new nicknames and we'd know. Besides, voting time should reasonably be at least 2 full days._

 

Still upset about that Al Gore thing?


 .


----------



## haloxt

lol good joke. i actually care about the compass though, can't say the same about my country's politics.

 i just sent a message to the admins to see if it's possible to set restrictions on a poll on the forums which can minimize voting fraud. i'll respect those results.


----------



## CaptainNugs

No more polls!!!!


----------



## csroc

Surveymonkey does not allow a single IP to vote multiple times so unless someone went through the trouble of changing locations or using a proxy, I think it should be ok.


----------



## sandchak

Well we all know what happened in the ensuing 8 years, but this isn't a political forum, so I'll stick to Compass..

 If haloxt feels there was lack of transparency in the polls, he at least has the right to express, well it did seem there was a wave of newcomers in the forum the last couple of days as the Polls were taking place, I could have understood if the most important part of Compass was being discussed - but I dont think it was.. so I think people should be able to express their opinions if the polls weren't for "shut up and listen to what I say"..


----------



## ccschua

Regarding the 230V or 110V cable it works for 230V standard like singapore. I am using the 110V standard in Malaysia which is 230V. However if u use US standard cable+plug in your 230V standard, the polarity is reverse meaning u get Live in the neutral. listening to music is no difference though. becareful on live in neutral inside the DAC only. [some dac has fuse in the live and neutral, extreme]


----------



## ccschua

What is mention in the 1st cartoon is a compliment to Peete for such elaborate review.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well we all know what happened in the ensuing 8 years, but this isn't a political forum, so I'll stick to Compass..

 If haloxt feels there was lack of transparency in the polls, he at least has the right to express, well it did seem there was a wave of newcomers in the forum the last couple of days as the Polls were taking place, I could have understood if the most important part of Compass was being discussed - but I dont think it was.. so I think people should be able to express their opinions if the polls weren't for "shut up and listen to what I say".._

 

I agree. We've already done a lot to share ideas and create a new look for the front of the Compass. Kingwa may regard it as important to help the sales of the Compass but it's not the most important part of the Compass. I wasn't particularly attached any one design over another (I think almost any of them would have worked) and I'm satisfied with the poll results. I don't want more polls and I think I'm not alone, there have already been too many! I don't mean to silence your opinion haloxt, I understand your concern, I just don't feel this is an issue that warrants that much further effort.

 With that said, here are the panels reformatted to match the formatting of the design files Kingwa sent me.






 Since it's the middle of the night in China I won't email this to him just yet, that gives me some time to go over it again and make sure all the alignments are on spot (I've always been anal about positioning, even when I did page layout in highschool I was precise to the pica and the point, at least this time I get to use mm).

 I did some slight shifting of the rear panel after getting Kingwa's design file measurements and also added 50% size versions of the selector icons under the input names on the rear.


----------



## les_garten

This is kinda changing the rules after the results are in. If there was this huge issue, why didn't it pop up yesterday or the Poll before or the Poll before?

 If there is another Poll held and the results are different, are we going to do it again? Wrong day of the week for a Poll? Didn't allow Antarctica to vote because the power was off there and the Internet Froze? Kangaroos chewed up Fiber Optic lines in West Australia and they were dark and couldn't vote? The Hello Kitty option was not included?

 This sounds like Minnesota!

 .


----------



## csroc

There are now 85 responses to the poll with design 2 still taking 56.5% of the votes. It's been open more than 12 hours now. I think we can stick a fork in it, it's d-o-n-e done. I'll leave it open but I'll buy someone a Compass if something else wins after a full 24 hours.

 (gift of a Compass subject to me willing to follow through with promise)


----------



## jron

Does anyone with an 1st gen Compass believe the silk screen could be be removed with chemicals or some other method? If so, users could still turn the winning design into something more stripped down.

 Thanks in advance!


----------



## sandchak

Les what you say is absolutely logical, but I am talking about the approach here, I just read csroc's reply and I am sure haloxt must be satisfied, or even me for that matter, but your approach only makes such a non-issue into an issue, after-all we all out here quite respectable poeple within our own means and should be treated that way, and not like kangaroos or whatever.. thats what I am saying and I am sure I am not the only one..

 Edit - I feel all haloxt expressed was a concern and a question, he could have been answered back like croac did, and not like he was a sour loser..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. We've already done a lot to share ideas and create a new look for the front of the Compass. Kingwa may regard it as important to help the sales of the Compass but it's not the most important part of the Compass. I wasn't particularly attached any one design over another (I think almost any of them would have worked) and I'm satisfied with the poll results. I don't want more polls and I think I'm not alone, there have already been too many! I don't mean to silence your opinion haloxt, I understand your concern, I just don't feel this is an issue that warrants that much further effort.

 With that said, here are the panels reformatted to match the formatting of the design files Kingwa sent me.







 Since it's the middle of the night in China I won't email this to him just yet, that gives me some time to go over it again and make sure all the alignments are on spot (I've always been anal about positioning, even when I did page layout in highschool I was precise to the pica and the point, at least this time I get to use mm).

 I did some slight shifting of the rear panel after getting Kingwa's design file measurements and also added 50% size versions of the selector icons under the input names on the rear._

 

This will make the Backplate look Great. It looked sloppy before, and first Impressions matter. If you look on a website and the product looks sloppy there, it makes you wonder about it. I fully understand that DIYers do not make their stuff like Sony. But Audio-gd is not a DIY company. Indeed Curra's review of the C2C talked about the DIY like aspects of the product.

 Good presentation CAN sell bad engineering. We've all seen that.

 Bad Presentation can hurt Good Engineering.

 The best combination is Great Presentation and Great Engineering.

 Compass is approaching that Combination

 The fore mentioned Corda, there is no doubt that a lot of it's sales are from looks alone. The audiophile community is inhabited by Magpies. We have a Monster thread that is inhabited by Night Shots of Glowing Tubes. There are tons more threads just like it. We have a Guy who Woodies Beyers and says they are artforms do not critique the SQ because it is art after all.

 .

 .


----------



## csroc

I think I might radius the little line connecting the preamp RCAs to the preamp switch so it matches the other boxes with their rounded corners.

 edit: picture updated

 edit2: and what's wrong with glowing tubes? I like the glowing tubes in my starving student!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone with an 1st gen Compass believe the silk screen could be be removed with chemicals or some other method? If so, users could still turn the winning design into something more stripped down.

 Thanks in advance!_

 

If you buy now, you can get in on one of the 80 that have the original face, if that's a major concern.

 .


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 It's magic!_

 

rofl, anyone cares to explain it better ?  that's 60usd we're talking here ! 
 I think i'll buy it by the time the upgraded version gets released with an earth opamp in-box, the reviewer claims that it fits rock/metal/electronic music better than the other 2 and the bass was precise and shaking at the same time, i just hope that these claims are in touch with reality


----------



## haloxt

All it takes is a single person with proxies to decide whatever option he wants. I am bringing this up because if you guys are so concerned about minor details like faceplates I thought maybe you'd be interested to know this. If you guys don't want to remove this possibility, and you don't think a vote requires more time than was given in the last poll (I still don't know why it had such a short vote time), then I won't do a poll.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_rofl, anyone cares to explain it better ?  that's 60usd we're talking here ! 
 I think i'll buy it by the time the upgraded version gets released with an earth opamp in-box, the reviewer claims that it fits rock/metal/electronic music better than the other 2 and the bass was precise and shaking at the same time, i just hope that these claims are in touch with reality 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well everyone's ears are different. When these AudioGD HDAMs first came out, I was one of the only ones who really liked the Sun... and I still do, although I've grown to like all 3 for the different sounds they offer. If you can swing it you should get all 3, that way if the mood strikes you can switch it out and have a different sounding unit! It's kinda like having a tube amp and rolling tubes! Regardless, they are ALL winners so you can't go wrong.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All it takes is a single person with proxies to decide whatever option he wants. I am bringing this up because if you guys are so concerned about minor details like faceplates I thought maybe you'd be interested to know this. If you guys don't want to remove this possibility, and you don't think a vote requires more time than was given in the last poll (I still don't know why it had such a short vote time), then I won't do a poll._

 

I know about all this, I just highly doubt there's anyone interested in the Compass that cares all that much to do that. Ultimately as someone and I had joked yesterday I think, it's not a democracy. Kingwa wants me to have a vote on it and I did, I took the original votes to help shape final designs. I wouldn't have wanted to make a decision on my own and submit it, that wouldn't be right, but as you can see if you go back the past two days I did not take every idea posed and draw up a sample panel. I had to filter input and deem some results reasonable and others unreasonable. 

 In the end I still have to make a similar judgment about what works and what doesn't and ultimately Kingwa will decide if we're right. He's been very open and looking forward to our final design decisions, but even if people want to keep submitting new ideas I need to end things, nevermind Kingwa needs to end things so he can actually get an order for new panels in on time! He needs them - new design or not - and it seems to me based on our communications that he really wants the new design we all do our best to agree upon.

 The last poll is still up and I will leave it up as I said. Still, given how the past polls went while there might be a few more votes the distribution of voting is highly unlikely to change.

 Nobody can stop you or anyone from making another poll although I think most of us are ready to stop answering polls. There's still more time for votes and input, but I wanted to draw this to a close last night only I accidentally omitted the original design from the previous poll. It needs to be over tonight, I don't know how much time Kingwa needs with things and if there will be any further back and forth between him and me before he meets with the panel manufacturer regarding any needed adjustments for example due to potential production issues or concerns.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Les what you say is absolutely logical, but I am talking about the approach here, I just read csroc's reply and I am sure haloxt must be satisfied, or even me for that matter, but your approach only makes such a non-issue into an issue, after-all we all out here quite respectable poeple within our own means and should be treated that way, and not like kangaroos or whatever.. thats what I am saying and I am sure I am not the only one..

 Edit - I feel all haloxt expressed was a concern and a question, he could have been answered back like croac did, and not like he was a sour loser.._

 

You can't please all the people all the time. 

 If the Poll reverses because of a Flood in a voting district, won't those voter's be disenfranchised? I'll use terms familiar to anyone not dead in the US of A! It was a Poll, there was a spread of responses. Therefore, it will be impossible to please everyone. This not Iran, no entry will win by 100%.

 You've probably had a coin toss to determine something with one of your childhood buddys. Your Buddy loses, what's the first thing he says, how about two out of three?

 Personally, I never saw the percentage in saying YES at that point.

 Here's how I analyze the Poll results. Add up the responses that voted for Iconography, #'s 2 and 3. Then add up the responses that voted against Iconography, #'s 1 and 4. IT was overwhelming what the Poll said.

 If you do another Poll, which I don't think you should, you should do only the most popular of the two different "sects" here. IE #1 and #2. Do you really want to prolong the inevitable for another two days? Additionally, because of the Hullabaloo developing, I think Fraud is more likely as we go along, not less so. I lived in Louisiana for 15 years, New Orleans to be exact. New Orleans can teach Chicago a lot about Graft and Corruption.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I might radius the little line connecting the preamp RCAs to the preamp switch so it matches the other boxes with their rounded corners.

 edit: picture updated

 edit2: and what's wrong with glowing tubes? I like the glowing tubes in my starving student!_

 

Yeah Exactly, My PIC is in that thread as are other's PICs from this thread.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All it takes is a single person with proxies to decide whatever option he wants. I am bringing this up because if you guys are so concerned about minor details like faceplates I thought maybe you'd be interested to know this. If you guys don't want to remove this possibility, and you don't think a vote requires more time than was given in the last poll (I still don't know why it had such a short vote time), then I won't do a poll._

 

Sure you do, you weren't here last night? Look back in the posts and see how the stop time was determined and who suggested it. It was suggested to be stopped last night because #2 was at 41%. CSROC suggested to it run till this am. If you post a public Poll here run by he forum as you suggested, then it would be easy to recruit lots of friends and new signups. We could even Get ACORN out there to Gin up the registrations. This would never end.


 .


----------



## haloxt

I asked the admins if they could apply a restriction on voters on those who have registered 2/17/09 or prior. That may remove some votes of people who frequented this thread but did not register prior to 2/17/09, but I think that is a more acceptable con than the possibility of someone with a proxy program going nuts with votes.


----------



## direcow

I thought we were past this voting thing?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can't please all the people all the time. 

 If the Poll reverses because of a Flood in a voting district, won't those voter's be disenfranchised? I'll use terms familiar to anyone not dead in the US of A! It was a Poll, there was a spread of responses. Therefore, it will be impossible to please everyone. This not Iran, no entry will win by 100%.

 You've probably had a coin toss to determine something with one of your childhood buddys. Your Buddy loses, what's the first thing he says, how about two out of three?

 Personally, I never saw the percentage in saying YES at that point.

 Here's how I analyze the Poll results. Add up the responses that voted for Iconography, #'s 2 and 3. Then add up the responses that voted against Iconography, #'s 1 and 4. IT was overwhelming what the Poll said.

 If you do another Poll, which I don't think you should, you should do only the most popular of the two different "sects" here. IE #1 and #2. Do you really want to prolong the inevitable for another two days? Additionally, because of the Hullabaloo developing, I think Fraud is more likely as we go along, not less so. I lived in Louisiana for 15 years, New Orleans to be exact. New Orleans can teach Chicago a lot about Graft and Corruption.

 ._

 

This is exactly the problem I am talking about, Les. you draw parallels indefinitely and unnecessary statements which attracts controversy.
 Anyway, it might just be me who finds what you say very sensitive/insensitive and has nothing to do with this forum or the discussion.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is exactly the problem I am talking about, Les. you draw parallels indefinitely and unnecessary statements which attracts controversy.
 Anyway, it might just be me who finds what you say very sensitive/insensitive and has nothing to do with this forum or the discussion._

 

I didn't see anything wrong with that post you quoted - not that I've been involved much in this.

 I think it's important to remember a few things - first this is a web forum - we communicate thru text. We can't see facial expressions, hear intonations, inflections, etc - a LOT of meaning can be lost that way. Second, there are some language barriers - not everyone speaks english natively, and even among those who do there are different expressions and figures of speech used in different parts of the world. The true meaning or intent of any given statement can easily be misinterpreted. 

 Except for a few isolated remarks I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to upset anyone else. We're all here for the same reason.


----------



## theBigD

I think all the designs were put together in a well ordered professional manner with the best interest of product and manufacturer in mind. Any single one would be fine. Its not like we are voting for either a dictator or humanitarian in government. Its a faceplate and none of the final designs detract from the professional build of the product (imho).


----------



## haloxt

For a little while les_garten was going way overboard with criticism (especially on sandchak). But he's making a lot of good points regarding the voting so I don't mind at all how he chooses to say it.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think all the designs were put together in a well ordered professional manner with the best interest of product and manufacturer in mind. Any single one would be fine. Its not like we are voting for either a dictator or humanitarian in government. Its a faceplate and none of the final designs detract from the professional build of the product (imho)._

 

Thank you BigD


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you BigD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

first of all congratulations on your 500 posts !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw, have you received any definite feedbacks from Kingwa about the winning faceplate design?.. I was just thinking if he has any preference on symbols or alphabets..


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_btw, have you received any definite feedbacks from Kingwa about the winning faceplate design?.. I was just thinking if he has any preference on symbols or alphabets.._

 

He never said anything about it and I did send him a PDF showing some of the earlier designs with the power and headphone getting symbols. He seems more interested in the will of the people in a way, but I'm sure if he has a problem with it when I send him the final designs he'll let me know tonight.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He never said anything about it and I did send him a PDF showing some of the earlier designs with the power and headphone getting symbols. He seems more interested in the will of the people in a way, but I'm sure if he has a problem with it when I send him the final designs he'll let me know tonight._

 

fair enough, I was specifically talking about the selector dial symbols.. anyway, I guess if this is what people want, the he should not have a problem..


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_fair enough, I was specifically talking about the selector dial symbols.. anyway, I guess if this is what people want, the he should not have a problem.._

 

I figured that's what you were talking about. I guess we'll see what he thinks tonight.

 I hadn't really thought to ask him about that. With things moving at the pace they were some things slipped through and I was focused on other aspects of this. That is an easy thing for me to change though, so if he really doesn't want symbols I can modify that in a minute or so.


----------



## bobsmith

I may have missed this in the thread, but was the issue of moving the buttons/selector switch ever confirmed with Kingwa? If not, it might be interesting to see what design #2 would look like with all buttons and knobs in their original locations.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may have missed this in the thread, but was the issue of moving the buttons/selector switch ever confirmed with Kingwa? If not, it might be interesting to see what design #2 would look like with all buttons and knobs in their original locations._

 

It was confirmed with Kingwa. Certain things cannot move or cannot be moved to certain areas. The selector switch can't move left (when you look at the front of the Compass, I had it backwards a few pages ago) because there's a tall support standoff right next to it. The volume knob can't be moved and the optical and USB inputs can't be moved. Everything else has some flexibility except obviously they can't be moved to where they would conflict with PCB placement (which is not moving).


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was confirmed with Kingwa. Certain things cannot move or cannot be moved to certain areas. The selector switch can't move left (when you look at the front of the Compass, I had it backwards a few pages ago) because there's a tall support standoff right next to it. The volume knob can't be moved and the optical and USB inputs can't be moved. Everything else has some flexibility except obviously they can't be moved to where they would conflict with PCB placement (which is not moving)._

 

Thanks. One other quick question that occurred to me. Since I understand the Compass has rather large knobs, I am wondering if by moving over the selector to the right, it will make the gap between the selector and volume too small. Specifically, would it be difficult to get fingers in between the gap to grasp the knobs properly?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. One other quick question that occurred to me. Since I understand the Compass has rather large knobs, I am wondering if by moving over the selector to the right, it will make the gap between the selector and volume too small. Specifically, would it be difficult to get fingers in between the gap to grasp the knobs properly?_

 

No, that's alright. There's plenty of room there, even if the knob moves 1 cm to the right.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. One other quick question that occurred to me. Since I understand the Compass has rather large knobs, I am wondering if by moving over the selector to the right, it will make the gap between the selector and volume too small. Specifically, would it be difficult to get fingers in between the gap to grasp the knobs properly?_

 

I don't think so but I'll check again. Originally there was a 20mm gap and the most drastic reduction has been to reduce that to 10mm. That's still enough room to fit a finger but certainly you don't have the space space you had with the original spacing. I'll look at it again later before I email it to Kingwa, if need be I'll move it back to the left some.

 With the shape of the knobs I don't think that will be an issue, but thanks for the comment. I actually have been pushing it side to side just thinking about the visual balance.


----------



## Toe Tag

I call for a vote on whether or not we should have another vote.


----------



## punk_guy182

Totally out of context: I'd like you guys to take a little pause and stop arguing to answer very important question that I have.

 Has anyone made an independant review of the Compass? I currently have the upgraded ZERO DAC/amp (OPA-Earth & LT1364) and I'd like to know if it is a worthy replacement.

 Thanks guys and you can keep arguing when I get a bunch of feedbacks.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Totally out of context: I'd like you guys to take a little pause and stop arguing to answer very important question that I have.

 Has anyone made an independant review of the Compass? I currently have the upgraded ZERO DAC/amp (OPA-Earth & LT1364) and I'd like to know if it is a worthy replacement.

 Thanks guys and you can keep arguing when I get a bunch of feedbacks. _

 

And you can see if you still need to ask that question once you've actually read the thread.

 EDIT: Oh, all right. Go here. Read. There's much more to follow.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Totally out of context: I'd like you guys to take a little pause and stop arguing to answer very important question that I have.

 Has anyone made an independant review of the Compass? I currently have the upgraded ZERO DAC/amp (OPA-Earth & LT1364) and I'd like to know if it is a worthy replacement.

 Thanks guys and you can keep arguing when I get a bunch of feedbacks. _

 

I also had an upgraded Zero... and wrote a review back a few pages now... here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5391951-post1451.html


----------



## mbd2884

Currently listening to Godsmack - Bad Religion. Hell yeah, its almost an adrenaline rush and a motivator to do something extremely reckless. The crashing cymbals are excellent, and the voice is so raw and can definitely tell he is screaming into the mic. Soundstaging is excellent, can definitely tell the cymbals used to keep up the beat is on the right, the crashes center and to the right, slightly above. The guitars have a sweet edgy sound to them, even the high notes, they don't whine smoothly like Clapton's fender, but as a proper heavy rock guitar should. The bass drums have that nice slam sound to it, higher pitch sound as it hits the plastic like material, but still have that bass thump. Using Foobar2K, ASIO4All with volume all the way up. I want to pick up the Compass and do air guitar riffs on em while I jump around like a lunatic.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Totally out of context: I'd like you guys to take a little pause and stop arguing to answer very important question that I have.

 Has anyone made an independant review of the Compass? I currently have the upgraded ZERO DAC/amp (OPA-Earth & LT1364) and I'd like to know if it is a worthy replacement.

 Thanks guys and you can keep arguing when I get a bunch of feedbacks. _

 

Here is an important question, have you read any of the independent reviews of the Compass with comparisons to the Zero yet?

 Godsmack - Awake continues the urge to jump around like a lunatic with Compass in hand


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is an important question, have you read any of the independent reviews of the Compass with comparisons to the Zero yet?

 Godsmack - Awake continues the urge to jump around like a lunatic with Compass in hand_

 

Nope! That's why I was posting here to find out where I could read such a review.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope! That's why I was posting here to find out where I could read such a review._

 

For you and anyone else who asks, Currawong has been updating the first post with links to all reviews.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They did.

 9dB won low gain with 48 votes and 15dB won high gain with 47 votes. None of the other gains had more than 3 votes._

 

Thanks cscroc. Have you relayed the results to Kingwa? I believe this is the bottleneck decision to shipping out the 79-odd V2a Compasses.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks cscroc. Have you relayed the results to Kingwa? I believe this is the bottleneck decision to shipping out the 79-odd V2a Compasses._

 

Well, I think I did. I will double check!


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. We've already done a lot to share ideas and create a new look for the front of the Compass. Kingwa may regard it as important to help the sales of the Compass but it's not the most important part of the Compass. I wasn't particularly attached any one design over another (I think almost any of them would have worked) and I'm satisfied with the poll results. I don't want more polls and I think I'm not alone, there have already been too many! I don't mean to silence your opinion haloxt, I understand your concern, I just don't feel this is an issue that warrants that much further effort.

 With that said, here are the panels reformatted to match the formatting of the design files Kingwa sent me.







 Since it's the middle of the night in China I won't email this to him just yet, that gives me some time to go over it again and make sure all the alignments are on spot (I've always been anal about positioning, even when I did page layout in highschool I was precise to the pica and the point, at least this time I get to use mm).

 I did some slight shifting of the rear panel after getting Kingwa's design file measurements and also added 50% size versions of the selector icons under the input names on the rear._

 

The panels are looking good. Just to clarify from your sample drawings, the center of your front panel openings are all on the same plane. Does that mean Kingwa will be rejigging the internals in V2b for this new panel? If so, then the owners of V2a will not be able to purchase new front panels if that's on the sales and marketing plan.

 On the rear plate drawing, are you proposing the three digital inputs to be moved up? Looking at the rear panel picture, the amount of black space for the Opt and USB jacks looks limited to squeeze text AND icons. It looks like it's either all text OR all icons.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The panels are looking good. Just to clarify from your sample drawings, the center of your front panel openings are all on the same plane. Does that mean Kingwa will be rejigging the internals in V2b for this new panel? If so, then the owners of V2a will not be able to purchase new front panels if that's on the sales and marketing plan._

 

I don't believe that was ever the plan, however from the design changes the front panel would be compatible but you would need to trim some of the power supply shielding above the super switch. (edit: I double checked the trim might need to be about 1-3 mm not 5-6).

  Quote:


 On the rear plate drawing, are you proposing the three digital inputs to be moved up? Looking at the rear panel picture, the amount of black space for the Opt and USB jacks looks limited to squeeze text AND icons. It looks like it's all text OR all icons. 
 

The optical and USB jacks have not moved at all. They must stay in the same place because those connectors are mounted to the PCB. Is that what you were asking about?

 With the gain decided (9dB/15dB) Kingwa tells me they can start making the Compass again! 

 Additional edit: based on a good idea Kingwa had, the gain switch will have H and L labels instead of 9dB and 15dB just in case something is changed in the future.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tried asking kingwa to make a power cord with the UK head, and he actually went out to buy some from the market and checked with me if the condition was ok... they didn't look too good, so I didn't go ahead with the power cable purchase, and kingwa asked me not to worry about paying for those plugs he bought...

 fantastic service! Come to think of it, me rejecting his paypal refund might be a good idea._

 

Their power cord can be modified to run a UK 13A plug. It's a little fiddly to make it all fit - you need to remove 7-10 strands from each of the live and neutral wires, around 15-25mm of insulation sheath, wind them together, re-cover with heat-shrink or insulating tape, and then wire the plug up as normal. The standard wiring just won't make the tight bends of the UK plug - there is too much cable, and the sheathing restricts access.

 Someone asked about mains voltages - in the UK, we used to run 240v. This was dropped to 230v to bring us in line with other countries, but in reality, nothing has changed. I've never seen less than 233v from a mains outlet, but have seen up to 246v.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Music that sounded like garbage on the Compass today: U2 - Streets Have no Name (Realized how craptastic mastering is on the Joshua Tree album. Overall all of U2 not so awesome, Bono definitely has Tinnitus, he can't hear how awful his record albums sound on a good system. Anyways I digress,_

 

That album ticks me off no-end. Some of the music is fantastic, but the album, in terms of sonics, is utter crapola. It's a shame, because a lot of the U2 stuff, I just don't like. I find much of their stuff morbid and depressing - it can be whiny and plods along... though I realise I'm in the minority with that view. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm reminded of this with the Kelly Clarkson albums - I like a few of her tracks, but they are so badly mastered... it takes all pleasure away from listening, it really does.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The optical and USB jacks have not moved at all. They must stay in the same place because those connectors are mounted to the PCB. Is that what you were asking about?

 With the gain decided (9dB/15dB) Kingwa tells me they can start making the Compass again!_

 

That's what I figure, but the drawing needs to scale and represent the current rear plate panel. Since I don't have a Compass in front of me, my only reference are the photos on the Audio-gd Web site and the ones Peete has posted.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

My guess there's about 1 cm of black space from the bottom edge of the Opt and USB connectors to the end of the case so it depends on the size of the font and icons if that's what you're suggesting with the drawing.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The panels are looking good. Just to clarify from your sample drawings, the center of your front panel openings are all on the same plane. Does that mean Kingwa will be rejigging the internals in V2b for this new panel? If so, then the owners of V2a will not be able to purchase new front panels if that's on the sales and marketing plan.

 On the rear plate drawing, are you proposing the three digital inputs to be moved up? Looking at the rear panel picture, the amount of black space for the Opt and USB jacks looks limited to squeeze text AND icons. It looks like it's either all text OR all icons._

 


 Hi,
 What did Kingwa think about the Panels?

 .


----------



## csroc

I see what you're saying.

 I printed out the panel designs at life size earlier today.

 Just took this because I figured it might give you a better idea of the scale of things.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

2 of the digital inputs are fixed to the PSU/DAC pcb and cannot be moved. The only one that can is the COAX SPDIF.

 I figured csroc that you took this into account. Or at least hoped you did.

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

I did. The optical and USB inputs are the PCB mounted components and they have not moved.

 I've rechecked that and the volume knob placement more times than I can count using Kingwa's vector design files. They are in the exact same place.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did. The optical and USB inputs are the PCB mounted components and they have not moved.

 I've rechecked that and the volume knob placement more times than I can count using Kingwa's vector design files. They are in the exact same place._

 

How about the screws on the back panel?

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did. The optical and USB inputs are the PCB mounted components and they have not moved.

 I've rechecked that and the volume knob placement more times than I can count using Kingwa's vector design files. They are in the exact same place._

 

Ok, good.

 I appreciate your hard work csroc despite being dead set against symbols and such.

 Peete.


----------



## D.C.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Their power cord can be modified to run a UK 13A plug. It's a little fiddly to make it all fit - you need to remove 7-10 strands from each of the live and neutral wires, around 15-25mm of insulation sheath, wind them together, re-cover with heat-shrink or insulating tape, and then wire the plug up as normal. The standard wiring just won't make the tight bends of the UK plug - there is too much cable, and the sheathing restricts access.

 Someone asked about mains voltages - in the UK, we used to run 240v. This was dropped to 230v to bring us in line with other countries, but in reality, nothing has changed. I've never seen less than 233v from a mains outlet, but have seen up to 246v.

 ~Phewl._

 

Just a quick question do you think there will be any problems if i use the custom cable with an UK/US adopter.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about the screws on the back panel?

 ._

 

I just measured...looks like just enough clearance maybe 1mm or 2mm or more between the screw heads and the left side border line. Should be enough.

 Peete.


----------



## D.C.

Peete I know you are using the HD650. Is it with a custom cable or the one that came with it. If its custom what brand is it and would you recommend me a brand. 

 Thanks


----------



## Joeoboe

Csroc,
 As if you didn't have enough to do... I was wondering about the design of the inner cover jumper guide... I think it is a good idea to have one, but I am wondering if Kingwa is changing the soft settings. I know the gain setting is changing... but the jumper guide could say "hi-gain" and "low-gain" to allow for any changes in specific gain amounts.


----------



## broodwich

I just wanted to say that I appreciate all of the work that has been done here to make this a great product. From the input on the initial design and development to the details such as improving the front and rear panel ascetics. I wanted to thank csroc for your graphic design work. I appreciate *both* good form *and* function.


----------



## csroc

Thanks broodwich. It became a crazy task. As Peete knows the original ideas I had turned in to a major crowd-sourced design process and we got new things like symbols for everything even though I hadn't planned on that. Peete, I did the best I could for both your sensibilities and mine to try to keep the symbols from becoming too flashy. Hello Kitty still looks like a possibility though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just measured...looks like just enough clearance maybe 1mm or 2mm or more between the screw heads and the left side border line. Should be enough.

 Peete._

 

There's about a centimeter (guesstimating since I haven't measured it) between the screw and the RCA jack. In the new design the RCA jacks are 3mm closer so there should be no problems even if the new RCA jacks have a slightly larger base.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Csroc,
 As if you didn't have enough to do... I was wondering about the design of the inner cover jumper guide... I think it is a good idea to have one, but I am wondering if Kingwa is changing the soft settings. I know the gain setting is changing... but the jumper guide could say "hi-gain" and "low-gain" to allow for any changes in specific gain amounts._

 

I forgot about that. I will talk to Kingwa about that and see what he's done about it. We discussed it previously but that was before I got carried away with the facelift. I just emailed him and offered that someone here could draft up something and I could come up with some diagrams where needed (maybe locating the jumpers and basic OPA install orientation stuff).


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *broodwich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just wanted to say that I appreciate all of the work that has been done here to make this a great product. From the input on the initial design and development to the details such as improving the front and rear panel ascetics. I wanted to thank csroc for your graphic design work. I appreciate *both* good form *and* function._

 

X2. I'd not thought at all about the panels until you came out with your interesting designs. The back panel especially will benefit from your labelling suggestions, with many first-time buyers having trouble understanding how to hook things up.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just measured...looks like just enough clearance maybe 1mm or 2mm or more between the screw heads and the left side border line. Should be enough.

 Peete._

 

Kewl, Thanx! I was looking over the Audio-GD site and saw the screws and they looked close.

 .


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kewl, Thanx! I was looking over the Audio-GD site and saw the screws and they looked close.

 ._

 

It will be close-ish but there will still be I think 5-7mm to spare. That might be a problem for the labeling though. I will double check that and make some adjustments if necessary. Kingwa says this time there will be plenty of time to make sure the quality and everything on the case is exactly what he wants. No rush due to something like Chinese New Year.

 edit: glad I bought these digital calipers recently. The R and L labeling will be right at the edge with the screws. Not good. I'm going to reduce the box size and spacing on the RCAs.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete I know you are using the HD650. Is it with a custom cable or the one that came with it. If its custom what brand is it and would you recommend me a brand. 

 Thanks_

 

Stock cable. 

 I had a DIY cable I bought off a fellow member here in the F/S section that I really enjoyed but it fell apart 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I wouldn't bother with the upgrade cable for the 650's DC...they are ridiculously expensive and that money could be better spent elsewhere (like source upgrades) IMO.

 But if your heart is set on one there are a number of them, Stefan Audio, Moon Audio, Zu Mobius, are three that I can think of ...all are big bucks though.

Headphone Cable

Stefan AudioArt Home

Mobius Sennâ„¢ Mk2 Sennheiser Headphone Cable



 Peete.


----------



## Taikero

Don't forget Equinox. That's "the" cable for the HD650, from what I've gathered (Well, the one the majority seem to settle on).


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stock cable. 

 I had a DIY cable I bought off a fellow member here in the F/S section that I really enjoyed but it fell apart 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wouldn't bother with the upgrade cable for the 650's DC...they are ridiculously expensive and that money could be better spent elsewhere (like source upgrades) IMO.

 But if your heart is set on one there are a number of them, Stefan Audio, Moon Audio, Zu Mobius, are three that I can think of ...all are big bucks though.

Headphone Cable

Stefan AudioArt Home

Mobius Sennâ„¢ Mk2 Sennheiser Headphone Cable



 Peete._

 


 What about this one? Sennheiser HD-650/600/580 6-ft, pure copper cable - (eBay.ca item 110308052296 end time 04-Mar-09 16:57:49 EST)


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see what you're saying.

 I printed out the panel designs at life size earlier today.

 Just took this because I figured it might give you a better idea of the scale of things.




_

 

The top-down shot of the Compass' front panel is hard to gauge the plane of the hole openings. Looking at Peete's eye-level shot, the Neutrik jack is NOT on the same plane as the two buttons, while the above drawing with the circular hole for the headphone jack (is on the SAME plane with the two buttons) implies there needs to be rejigging of the internals.

 Unlike the above drawing, your previous drawings have the full rectangular Neutrik jack as represented below.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The poll didn't change much, like I suspected. More votes, same general distribution.

 With 57.3% of 82 votes so far I do believe panel 2 has taken it. 






 The panels in question:




_

 


 If sample drawing 1 is the original front panel and drawing 2 is the winner, it appears that Kingwa needs to rejig the internals to accommodate the repositioned buttons and selector knob. With the power and Super buttons raised slightly higher in drawing 2 than the original, it looks like Kingwa needs to add additional padding / shielding (?) for the higher openings. There are no clear shots of the inside hole openings for the two buttons and Neutrik jack so I don't have the insider view (excuse the pun) of the Compass to make sense of your reference below.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't believe that was ever the plan, however from the design changes the front panel would be compatible but you would need to trim some of the power supply shielding above the super switch. (edit: I double checked the trim might need to be about 1-3 mm not 5-6)._


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about this one? Sennheiser HD-650/600/580 6-ft, pure copper cable - (eBay.ca item 110308052296 end time 04-Mar-09 16:57:49 EST)_

 

AFAIR someone on the forums makes that one


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 What did Kingwa think about the Panels?

 ._

 

No idea. I believe csroc is the lead contact on the redesigned panels. I'm just trying to move this community project along so we can start enjoying the sweet sounds of Audio-gd gear, whether it's the Compass or upcoming products. It's one thing to comment from photos and another to evaluate from personal touch and experience so I trust csroc is actively engaging with Kingwa for his feedback on the panels.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2. I'd not thought at all about the panels until you came out with your interesting designs. The back panel especially will benefit from your labelling suggestions, with many first-time buyers having trouble understanding how to hook things up._

 

I agree the rear panel really looks neat and convenient, I haven't looked at my Compass too regularly these days and more so because I cant use it now - but I just looked at it and the the winning design, I understand Csroc has a compass unlike most that polled for the new design, I just want to say to people that have voted without physically seeing the compass should realize, the Compass doesn't really look sleek, its built like a tank and with the feets on, it it looks like a thick piece of brick.. I am just saying that people not to expect the Compass like a few pics of gears posted comparing the looks, and offcourse the 3 dimensional factor also comes in, so the front panel will look quite different from the diagrams you see here.. all said and done, nothing will take away the effort put in by Csroc and the new Compass will surely look neater with the alignments taken care of.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't bother with the upgrade cable for the 650's DC...Peete._

 

My stock 650's sound great with a quality source. I have not auditioned any of the costly upgrade cables yet. I may experiment with some of them in the future, assuming the vendor will let me return them. I'm X2 with Peete, I'm putting my money into sources at the moment... 

 During a conversation with a Beyerdynamic rep I brought up the subject of recabling cans(I did mention the Senns too). His response was that he thought it wasn't worth the money. He said if someone was really compelled to make a change, the most benefit would be derived by upgrading the stock connector...


----------



## No_One411

Wow, I've been following this thread since the very beginning, and regret only making a post now. I definitely think, judging from the reviews its been getting, that its going to be the "go-to" DAC/amp under $500. 

 However, there is one small question that I have that I don't think has been really addressed. I know that its designed to drive both Low impedance and High impedance headphones equally well. But how about on the extreme end? Has anyone tested how they perform with Grados and perhaps a 600 ohm AKG or Beyer Manufaktur? My main concern is its ability to drive phones with 600ish ohms and low sensitivity. Other than that, I definitely believe that this product will close my wallet for quite some time.


----------



## greenarrow

Can this drives the newly released AKG K702?


----------



## punk_guy182

I recommend to get rid of the names selector and ear out on the face plate. There isn't much place on the face plate and those names are useless. We all can figure out that the knob is to select and know what a ear phone looks like. Also change the word Super for Preamp.
 Btw, when is the Compass due out? I'm starting to get interested.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No_One411* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, I've been following this thread since the very beginning, and regret only making a post now. I definitely think, judging from the reviews its been getting, that its going to be the "go-to" DAC/amp under $500. 

 However, there is one small question that I have that I don't think has been really addressed. I know that its designed to drive both Low impedance and High impedance headphones equally well. But how about on the extreme end? Has anyone tested how they perform with Grados and perhaps a 600 ohm AKG or Beyer Manufaktur? My main concern is its ability to drive phones with 600ish ohms and low sensitivity. Other than that, I definitely believe that this product will close my wallet for quite some time._

 

Cant really say about the specific headphones you are talking about, because I haven't used them, but as some indication you can see people who already have Compass and have used it with different headphones, prefer to lower the gain of Compass.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can this drives the newly released AKG K702?_

 

During development Kingwa has been testing with the 701's and a variety of nice cans, the 702's should be right at home. Also, there is a gain switch for driving/matching with low and high impedence cans...


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_During a conversation with a Beyerdynamic rep I brought up the subject of recabling cans(I did mention the Senns too). His response was that he thought it wasn't worth the money. He said if someone was really compelled to make a change, the most benefit would be derived by upgrading the stock connector..._

 

Well, at least he admits their connectors are a bit crappy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But seriously, from what just my intuition tells me about recabling: headphones are basically small loudspeakers and I've certainly heard in the past what even a simple speaker cable upgrade can do for sound quality. Just having that fact in mind when looking at the rather flimsy stock cables most headphones come with (yes Beyerdynamic, you too) tells me that there's probably some improvement to be had.
 That said, I expect the most improvement to come from recabling vintage phones, because, as far as I know, using OFC for cables is still a relatively new thing.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No_One411* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_However, there is one small question that I have that I don't think has been really addressed. I know that its designed to drive both Low impedance and High impedance headphones equally well. But how about on the extreme end? Has anyone tested how they perform with Grados and perhaps a 600 ohm AKG or Beyer Manufaktur? My main concern is its ability to drive phones with 600ish ohms and low sensitivity. Other than that, I definitely believe that this product will close my wallet for quite some time._

 

As I've said before, it drives my Grado SR-325i's fine. (Small reservations I might have about the sound signature from this combination have more to do with my feelings about combining Grado's and powerful SS amplification in general, than with the Compass in particular.) It's also very possible that even higher-end Grado's will give even better results. Others have used low impedance Denons an ATs with similar positive impressions.
 As to 600 ohms, as far as I know Peete has a pair of K240 Monitors that should be 600 ohm. He will probably say something about them in the upcoming final part of his review.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recommend to get rid of the word selector and ear out on the face plate. also change the word Super for preamp._

 

I recommend you read a little more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit: sorry if that came across as rude, I didn't mean to be. Just that those things have already been covered in depth and none of those original text labels survived the voting process.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The top-down shot of the Compass' front panel is hard to gauge the plane of the hole openings. Looking at Peete's eye-level shot, the Neutrik jack is NOT on the same plane as the two buttons, while the above drawing with the circular hole for the headphone jack (is on the SAME plane with the two buttons) implies there needs to be rejigging of the internals._

 

You are correct, they're not on the same plane. Some pages ago I showed a diagram comparing the old against the new design.

 Here is it (maybe not exactly the same) again.






 As you can see alignment of the switches and headphone jack now lie along the same horizontal line bisecting the selector and volume knobs. 

  Quote:


 Unlike the above drawing, your previous drawings have the full rectangular Neutrik jack as represented below. 
 

Well I had two jobs to do, give you guys a reasonable representation of what it would look like and give Kingwa a diagram of where the holes go. That's why the shape of the front of the Neutrik jack was removed from some of the later figures, because otherwise it might be mistaken as some part of the silkscreened design. Only the necessary hole for mounting the Neutrik remained.

  Quote:


 If sample drawing 1 is the original front panel and drawing 2 is the winner, it appears that Kingwa needs to rejig the internals to accommodate the repositioned buttons and selector knob. With the power and Super buttons raised slightly higher in drawing 2 than the original, it looks like Kingwa needs to add additional padding / shielding (?) for the higher openings. There are no clear shots of the inside hole openings for the two buttons and Neutrik jack so I don't have the insider view (excuse the pun) of the Compass to make sense of your reference below. 
 

There will need to be a bit of rejigging, but Kingwa expresses no concern about it. The Neutrik, power and LED should be movable without any issues. The bypass switch will require a few mm be trimmed off the shielding (actually this is probably the only rejigging needed due to my design... so that's not too bad). There are already a number of gaps and the shielding does not extend below the selector switch so I highly doubt it's going to be any sort of an issue. The only front panel component that is unable to move due to being a PCB mounted component is the volume knob & pot. On the rear panel it's the optical and USB inputs. All of those have been rechecked until I'm no longer sure I understand the numbers I'm looking at.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No idea. I believe csroc is the lead contact on the redesigned panels. I'm just trying to move this community project along so we can start enjoying the sweet sounds of Audio-gd gear, whether it's the Compass or upcoming products. It's one thing to comment from photos and another to evaluate from personal touch and experience so I trust csroc is actively engaging with Kingwa for his feedback on the panels._

 

You better believe I'm going back and forth with him as much as he and I can. It's to the point where sometimes I feel it's too much and I must be driving him nuts but he is very active in pursuing this with me. In many respects everything that can be done is done. The internals with regard to gain, bypass and preamp have been modified and taken care of. Externally I'm in the tweaking phase if someone spots a problem (like the screws on the left side of the back panel interfering with the R & L labels for the RCA jacks) and responding to whatever needs Kingwa has such as adjusting hole sizes for the newer RCA jacks. That required a bit of modification to a number of areas on the rear although it's still much the same. Having never had to design anything like this with so many different parameters controlling design it's been a learning experience but the mistakes have fortunately been few and those that have popped up aren't ones that are big problems or are easily fixed.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can this drives the newly released AKG K702?_

 

Yes it can, very easily and very well from what I read.
 The K701 which are thew same as the K702 were used among others like the HD650 to design and test the amp.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, at least he admits their connectors are a bit crappy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

LMAO...we were talking cans in general, not just Beyers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do agree with your points though. I'll experiment with some cable upgrades in the future, but for now I'm focu$ed on sources. I don't want to toss a perfectly good cable when it's actually the source that sucks...


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree the rear panel really looks neat and convenient, I haven't looked at my Compass too regularly these days and more so because I cant use it now - but I just looked at it and the the winning design, I understand Csroc has a compass unlike most that polled for the new design, I just want to say to people that have voted without physically seeing the compass should realize, the Compass doesn't really look sleek, its built like a tank and with the feets on, it it looks like a thick piece of brick.. I am just saying that people not to expect the Compass like a few pics of gears posted comparing the looks, and offcourse the 3 dimensional factor also comes in, so the front panel will look quite different from the diagrams you see here.. all said and done, nothing will take away the effort put in by Csroc and the new Compass will surely look neater with the alignments taken care of._

 

Agreed, the Compass won't have the fancy design appeal of some other hardware on the market, but all of Audio-gd's equipment is understated and and has a straightforward manner to how the enclosure is built. I'm a function over form person myself. I have NAD components in my stereo and Thinkpad laptops... and nobody would necessary call any Subaru very pretty. The Compass is the same but that doesn't mean I didn't see ways to improve it.

 The build quality though is certainly extremely high and everything has a very solid feel. My original intention was just to have fun imagining what the Compass would look like with some more work put in to the layout and printing on the front and back. I wanted the back to be clear and have areas segmented logically and I felt the front could use better alignment and that some shifting didn't hurt but also didn't really change the character of the face of the Compass.

 So whether you originally just wanted to keep text labels on the front of the Compass or not, everyone steered it in this direction and here we are. We should hopefully see the results within a month.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The final designs... I'm wrapping up the poll now









_

 

If it's not too late, I'm with no 2 if I have to pick only one, No 6 is a close second. Thanks for all the effort guys! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man


----------



## csroc

Sorry to say but you are too late! The design that won the last two polls was #9 in the set you quoted.


----------



## inukage0029

this may have already been covered, but i cant find it.

 My question is, does the amp's low gain setting put out a low enough power to drive the Denon D series well? last few amps ive tried i can barely touch the volume dial before they are blasting.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed, the Compass won't have the fancy design appeal of some other hardware on the market_

 

This is exactly what I wanted to convey - the rest is pretty much known to people who have used Audio GD gears in the past or using one currently.


----------



## csroc

What was it that NAD says? 

  Quote:


 Everything that does not go into showroom appearance and needless bells and whistles in NAD equipment goes instead into internal component parts of extremely high quality. Inside our gray boxes you will find parts you otherwise would see only in very expensive equipment. We put our focus on the inside where it counts, and you can hear the results. 
 

from NAD Electronics :: About NAD

 I see some similarities between that and what Kingwa does.


 Also, Kingwa does want to print instructions/diagrams on the underside of the lid so if someone (joeoboe?) wants to help with figuring out what needs to be said, get to it! There is no need to explain gain jumpers because there won't be any but there are tone settings and I think there should be some sort of brief instructions on installing OPAs.

 I'll work on something tomorrow but if anyone wants to provide content to help I would be appreciative. PM me if you can help.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What was it that NAD says? 

 [Snip]

 I see some similarities between that and what Kingwa does._

 

Some, maybe... But actually, I see what NAD says better reflected in Kingwa's gear than in the gear that NAD produces. NAD's enclosures may cut costs, but they're pretty flimsy too. Sure, it may save transportation costs, but I prefer the sturdy cases of Audio-gd. Moreover, when opening up NAD gear (in particular their cd-players) you are greeted with a disappointingly big amount of emptiness. Quality components maybe, but there aren't very many of them. Just compare that to the insides of the Compass.

 Not making any real quality comparisons here. Just saying that gear like that of Audio-gd gives me that warm feeling inside, that I no longer get from NAD. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, Kingwa does want to print instructions/diagrams on the underside of the lid so if someone (joeoboe?) wants to help with figuring out what needs to be said, get to it! There is no need to explain gain jumpers because there won't be any but there are tone settings and I think there should be some sort of brief instructions on installing OPAs._

 

I believe Curra is working on a FAQ for the Compass. It shouldn't be too difficult to make that into something resembling a manual. Make a PDF out of it and put it on the Audio-gd site for download.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some, maybe... But actually, I see what NAD says better reflected in Kingwa's gear than in the gear that NAD produces. NAD's enclosures may cut costs, but they're pretty flimsy too. Sure, it may save transportation costs, but I prefer the sturdy cases of Audio-gd. Moreover, when opening up NAD gear (in particular their cd-players) you are greeted with a disappointingly big amount of emptiness. Quality components maybe, but there aren't very many of them. Just compare that to the insides of the Compass.

 Not making any real quality comparisons here. Just saying that gear like that of Audio-gd gives me that warm feeling inside, that I no longer get from NAD. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Won't disagree there, NAD stuck to that philosophy better in the past. Personally I think it's better represented in their amplifiers, preamps and integrated amps than in their disc players.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I had two jobs to do, give you guys a reasonable representation of what it would look like and give Kingwa a diagram of where the holes go. That's why the shape of the front of the Neutrik jack was removed from some of the later figures, because otherwise it might be mistaken as some part of the silkscreened design. Only the necessary hole for mounting the Neutrik remained._

 

Thanks csroc. That helps clarify things.


  Quote:


 There will need to be a bit of rejigging, but Kingwa expresses no concern about it. The Neutrik, power and LED should be movable without any issues. The bypass switch will require a few mm be trimmed off the shielding (actually this is probably the only rejigging needed due to my design... so that's not too bad). There are already a number of gaps and the shielding does not extend below the selector switch so I highly doubt it's going to be any sort of an issue. The only front panel component that is unable to move due to being a PCB mounted component is the volume knob & pot. On the rear panel it's the optical and USB inputs. All of those have been rechecked until I'm no longer sure I understand the numbers I'm looking at. 
 

Ok, so long as Kingwa is cool with rejigging the internals, that's fine. I was concerned with all the modifications being tossed around that it will impact delivery of the V2b Compass, when we already have a proven product with the first 18 units.


  Quote:


 You better believe I'm going back and forth with him as much as he and I can. It's to the point where sometimes I feel it's too much and I must be driving him nuts but he is very active in pursuing this with me. In many respects everything that can be done is done. The internals with regard to gain, bypass and preamp have been modified and taken care of. Externally I'm in the tweaking phase if someone spots a problem (like the screws on the left side of the back panel interfering with the R & L labels for the RCA jacks) and responding to whatever needs Kingwa has such as adjusting hole sizes for the newer RCA jacks. That required a bit of modification to a number of areas on the rear although it's still much the same. Having never had to design anything like this with so many different parameters controlling design it's been a learning experience but the mistakes have fortunately been few and those that have popped up aren't ones that are big problems or are easily fixed. 
 

Definitely appreciate all your hard work. I've been conversing with Kingwa for a few months when I was in the market for a Zero and OPAs, and can relate with your experience. I've peppered him with questions and suggestions on the Compass, and he really is receptive to our input in the product development process. I wish there were more manufacturers like Kingwa who research and embrace what's valued by their target market.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, so long as Kingwa is cool with rejigging the internals, that's fine. I was concerned with all the modifications being tossed around that it will impact delivery of the V2b Compass, when we already have a proven product with the first 18 units._

 

My understanding is that V2b as you call it (V2a being the upgraded internals coming out shortly) will not be delayed because of this. Kingwa already had to make some changes to the back panel (it needed four new things to be placed) and there were some adjustments to the front panel silkscreening others wanted done (particularly Ear Out alignment). I hope what happens is that this new design just slips in to the process in the place of whatever would have needed to be developed anyway.

 He does want help with the instructions for the underside of the lid, which I presume he'll need before his meeting this weekend with the enclosure manufacturer. I don't think that needs or will get as democratic and drawn out of a process as the front panel wound up getting, but I do need to figure out what needs to go there. (another plea for help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Won't disagree there, NAD stuck to that philosophy better in the past. Personally I think it's better represented in their amplifiers, preamps and integrated amps than in their disc players._

 

Agree with you on the amplifiers, those look and feel a lot better. Nice big heatsinks amongst other things.
 But, yeah, there's probably a reason why vintage NAD gear is so popular.

 Still, NAD equipment still usually provides a good price/performance ratio. But I think we're all coming to the conclusion here that the really good deals are now coming from the smaller (Chinese) manufacturers.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He does want help with the instructions for the underside of the lid, which I presume he'll need before his meeting this weekend with the enclosure manufacturer. I don't think that needs or will get as democratic and drawn out of a process as the front panel wound up getting, but I do need to figure out what needs to go there. (another plea for help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 

What should go there is probably only the things that apply to all Compasses. So perhaps info on opamps should be left out, because to give a full explanation of that would also have to involve info on other opamps besides the Audio-gd ones.
 So IMO just info on the soft/neutral/bright jumper settings. (Provided the gain becomes a switch.) This would mean we need to finalise what those different amp coloration-settings will become.


----------



## oldschool

Don't want to whine about it, but I really hate the voted design with the Selector symbols.

 USB has it's own trademark symbol, but the other two are not widely recognized, are they? If I didn't know the Compass also has Optical and Coax, I would never guess what these symbols stand for.

 For me the best design would be a cross between the winner of the poll and the original design, i.e. left part of front panel with symbols, right part with labels.

 But I guess it's too late now ;0


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to say but you are too late! The design that won the last two polls was #9 in the set you quoted._

 


 Ah well, it suits me just as fine. That's what I get when far too many pages are added to this thread in only a couple of days! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 S-Man


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't want to whine about it, but I really hate the voted design with the Selector symbols.

 USB has it's own trademark symbol, but the other two are not widely recognized, are they? If I didn't know the Compass also has Optical and Coax, I would never guess what these symbols stand for.

 For me the best design would be a cross between the winner of the poll and the original design, i.e. left part of front panel with symbols, right part with labels.

 But I guess it's too late now ;0_

 

I more or less agree with you. Les_Garten came up with a different optical symbol, which I liked a lot better.
 Here:





 Hard to think of a better symbol for coax digital though. The one used now is rather similar to the one on the latest Meier DAC/Amp.

 But I'm afraid we do have to get this thing wrapped up. And people are really sick of polls by now. So another vote on symbols might not be a good thing.

 (As a consolation, if you hurry you can probably still get one with the original faceplate.)


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No_One411* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tested how they perform with Grados and perhaps a 600 ohm AKG or Beyer Manufaktur?_

 

Denon D5000s are lower impedance than Grados from memory and they drive fine. Kingwa now has Grado SR-80s and AKG K701s for testing. I don't know how 600 Ohm cans would perform, but I don't see it as a problem. I'd be more worried why people are buying 600 Ohm headphones.

 My friend here now has Grado HF-1s, so I'll finally get a chance to get a good listen with a pair of Grados, which I haven't ever before.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He does want help with the instructions for the underside of the lid, which I presume he'll need before his meeting this weekend with the enclosure manufacturer. I don't think that needs or will get as democratic and drawn out of a process as the front panel wound up getting, but I do need to figure out what needs to go there. (another plea for help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 

If you're up for the effort, then good on you for it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I reckon just paste here what you come up with and we'll give you feedback. What instructions are needed? Are they for changing the HDAM?


----------



## ExtraNice

Personally, I'm not really fussed if it's symbols or writing. Does nothing to change the atheistic. It's just a different kind of average (looking).
 If I had my way and it was possible, I would totally change the design. If there's one thing the Zero wins by far, it's looks.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't want to whine about it, but I really hate the voted design with the Selector symbols.

 USB has it's own trademark symbol, but the other two are not widely recognized, are they? If I didn't know the Compass also has Optical and Coax, I would never guess what these symbols stand for.

 For me the best design would be a cross between the winner of the poll and the original design, i.e. left part of front panel with symbols, right part with labels.

 But I guess it's too late now ;0_

 

I agree with you buddy, but you are too late and the majority wins.. although I must confess the polls were a little too short in duration.

 Its like making of Compass itself was hurried due to Chinese New year - while the polls were I guess to a new day in the Americas.. It rules - still !!..


----------



## Taikero

Early to bed and early to rise means you get the worm but don't get to vote on the Compass.

 Yep.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with you buddy, but you are too late and the majority wins.. although I must confess the polls were a little too short in duration.

 Its like making of Compass itself was hurried due to Chinese New year - while the polls were I guess to a new day in the Americas.. It rules - still !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Also, it's a bit hard to do it this way. Over the internet, in different time-zones. If only we could just sit around the table for one evening...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Personally, I'm not really fussed if it's symbols or writing. Does nothing to change the atheistic. It's just a different kind of average (looking).
 If I had my way and it was possible, I would totally change the design. If there's one thing the Zero wins by far, it's looks._

 

Well I have to disagree here, I personally think even look wise (as it is) Compass looks far better than ZERO, I am saying because I own both.. in any case even if you gaze and hypnotize Zero, it would never sound as good as Compass..


----------



## ExtraNice

Really?
 I just like the brushed and less cluttered look the Zero has. Much more professional. Also I think the gun black look too utilitarian.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have to disagree here, I personally think even look wise (as it is) Compass looks far better than ZERO, I am saying because I own both.. in any case even if you gaze and hypnotize Zero, it would never sound as good as Compass..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The problem is, appreciating the looks of the Compass is in part a tactile experience. You need to know how solid and rugged it feels. I think everyone here complaining about its looks, would like it a lot better after they had a chance to get close and personal with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And then there's the way it sounds...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The problem is, appreciating the looks of the Compass is in part a tactile experience. You need to know how solid and rugged it feels. I think everyone here complaining about its looks, would like it a lot better after they had a chance to get close and personal with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And then there's the way it sounds..._

 

This is absolutely cheating - you are snatching the words from my mouth !!..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is absolutely cheating - you are snatching the words from my mouth !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, I think we have found true love. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (in the Compass, I mean)


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I think we have found love. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (in the Compass, I mean)_

 

damn. I am fretting, I cant even hear my love...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but then at least I can look at it and feel happy... aha, looks ( I meant looking) does matter..

 EDIT - You know it just came to my mind and I don't think this will take long : Why don't we have a quick poll among the 17-18 that have the Compass physically beside them - Please, I am not trying to project that we are the BIG BOYS of this thread, but I feel we were the first to invest so we have the advantage of physically seeing the Compass and the extent of its cosmetic flaws, I also think the 18 represent quite a diversity geographically.. and then give the results of both the polls to Kingwa and let him decide.. I don't know I am just tossing this idea - if theres no takers I'll just shut up..
 One more thing, this poll (if it is ever decided to go ahead with) will for sure remove any doubts about proxy votes and so on..


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_damn. I am fretting, I cant even hear my love...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but then at least I can look at it and feel happy... aha, looks ( I meant looking) does matter..

 EDIT - You know it just came to my mind and I don't think this will take long : Why don't we have a quick poll among the 17-18 that have the Compass physically beside them - Please, I am not trying to project that we are the BIG BOYS of this thread, but I feel we were the first to invest so we have the advantage of physically seeing the Compass and the extent of its cosmetic flaws, I also think the 18 represent quite a diversity geographically.. and then give the results of both the polls to Kingwa and let him decide.. I don't know I am just tossing this idea - if theres no takers I'll just shut up..
 One more thing, this poll (if it is ever decided to go ahead with) will for sure remove any doubts about proxy votes and so on.._

 

I am one of the Chosen 18
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... and I actually voted for the winning design! I wish I were as good at picking lottery numbers!
 The winning design will look great and fit nicely into Audio-gd's international market where English might not be spoken. Saab, BMW etc... have used these designs for decades and people actually are able to get into the cars and figure out what the symbols mean. I imagine if the only thing used on the prototype units were Chinese characters... THEN everyone would love the symbols!


----------



## mbd2884

WOW, I am so happy I have one of the 18s. The voted design makes me a little sad. Those symbols look annoying. That and if I were the designer for Meier Audio, I would be laughing so hard right now, or would I be pissed?


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_damn. I am fretting, I cant even hear my love...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but then at least I can look at it and feel happy... aha, looks ( I meant looking) does matter..

 EDIT - You know it just came to my mind and I don't think this will take long : Why don't we have a quick poll among the 17-18 that have the Compass physically beside them - Please, I am not trying to project that we are the BIG BOYS of this thread, but I feel we were the first to invest so we have the advantage of physically seeing the Compass and the extent of its cosmetic flaws, I also think the 18 represent quite a diversity geographically.. and then give the results of both the polls to Kingwa and let him decide.. I don't know I am just tossing this idea - if theres no takers I'll just shut up..
 One more thing, this poll (if it is ever decided to go ahead with) will for sure remove any doubts about proxy votes and so on.._

 

Many of us have already voiced the opinion that the compass has a big and rugged sort of look so putting computer symbols on it won't look all that good. But no one seems to care the slightest about what we've said about the actual 3-d appearance of the compass and how it differs from apple products in more ways than just faceplate decals and won't magically turn sleek once you put some symbols on it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW, I am so happy I have one of the 18s. The voted design makes me a little sad. Those symbols look annoying. That and if I were the designer for Meier Corda, I would be laughing so hard right now, or would I be pissed?_

 

Which is why I want a new poll with restrictions on users of this forum at a certain date and prior. But since no one seems to care at all of the possibility of one kooky person voting lots of times, I guess nothing can be done about it.


----------



## mbd2884

Hmmmm......

 Will be looking forward to some Nine Inch Nails and Filter tonight. Also got a hold of a copy of the MSFL version of Joshua Tree, its better, but U2 honestly just proves they all got some serious cases of tinnitis. Also their music bit leaning too much on the teenie boppy sound, not pop, cause Travis I'd consider pop, but not teenie bopper sound.

 I'll stick to Travis and Thirteen Senses from the British Isles.

 Thirteen Senses - Animal sounds great. One of the first I listened to on the Compass when it arrived, and its awesome everytime I listen again.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which is why I want a new poll with restrictions on users of this forum at a certain date and prior. But since no one seems to care at all of the possibility of one kooky person voting lots of times, I guess nothing can be done about it._

 

But.. that means going back and re-voting on the switch assignment also ( which i wanted to be preamp!) since it was the same polling method. I find it a stretch to think that there is someone out there trying to undermine your wishes. In this design process, everyone has shared ideas... and some are chosen and some are left behind. I have one of the prototypes.. and it looks like a prototype. Stuff is misaligned, screws covering labels and superfluous and bizarre wording... I like it in a quirky way, but don't think for a moment that is is up to the quality of the work that went inside. Csroc has done great work in cleaning all that up. Any of the top 2-3 designs would be a great choice. To dismiss the overwhelming winner and to say we have to change the poll because your design didn't win seems a bit small. Lets move on to the next step...


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_










 Hmmmm......_

 

The Compass is much nicer looking. The design is FAR too cluttered on the Meier. Csroc should go to work for him!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW, I am so happy I have one of the 18s. The voted design makes me a little sad. Those symbols look annoying. That and if I were the designer for Meier Audio, I would be laughing so hard right now, or would I be pissed?_

 


 LOL, the designer at Meier Audio?! Meier Audio is basically one guy, Jan Meier. (Although he gets help, now and again, with preparing shipments, I believe.) Anyways, although the fascias are no doubt designed by Jan himself, the enclosures are standard Shanling designs. (Shanling=the (Chinese!) company that does the actual assemblage/production of his amps).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Compass is much nicer looking. The design is FAR too cluttered on the Meier. Csroc should go to work for him!_

 

Meier amps look nice. But it's not like they can be compared to an Alfa Romeo Brera or SR-71 Blackbird or something.


----------



## Joeoboe

I do not have any vector drawing software ( well I do... but it is an obsolete format)... but to get the ball rolling for the inside cover:


----------



## ScottieB

I do like the LEDs showing you the clock rate though. I'm a geek to be sure, but I always like seeing the bit rate/clock rate... something I miss on my ipod that my previous mp3 players all had. Obviously not a dealbreaker, but a nice feature and one this geek appreciates!


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyways, although the fascias are no doubt designed by Jan himself, the enclosures are standard Shanling designs. (Shanling=the (Chinese!) company that does the actual assemblage/production of his amps)._

 

Coolness. Shanling CD Player! Hmm looks familiar, haha!


----------



## mbd2884

So far with friends, g/f and others visiting, they all react to the Compass.

 That huge thing for your headphones? Really? Just headphones? The power cable really throws them off.

 When the g/f is over, I don't listen to Compass much, she hogs it.

 Got another friend refuses to listen any longer, as he will have to go out and get himself AT Headphones and Compass also, but refuses to spend that kind of money on his 
 music, lol.

 Also the Furutech FP-704 is starting to grow on me, its massive industrial look goes well with the Neutrik jack.

 One thing they all agree on, Compass looks very cool, yes even the faceplate...


----------



## ExtraNice

Does anybody know how this baby stacks up to the NuForce Mini?
 The NuForce looks pretty tempting right now... only thing is that they decided to use RJ45 to output to speakers, which is crazy I thinks. makes it look like a router.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But.. that means going back and re-voting on the switch assignment also ( which i wanted to be preamp!) since it was the same polling method. I find it a stretch to think that there is someone out there trying to undermine your wishes. In this design process, everyone has shared ideas... and some are chosen and some are left behind. I have one of the prototypes.. and it looks like a prototype. Stuff is misaligned, screws covering labels and superfluous and bizarre wording... I like it in a quirky way, but don't think for a moment that is is up to the quality of the work that went inside. Csroc has done great work in cleaning all that up. Any of the top 2-3 designs would be a great choice. To dismiss the overwhelming winner and to say we have to change the poll because your design didn't win seems a bit small. Lets move on to the next step..._

 

I was talking only about the front panel, I personally find the icons in selector dial can be confusing, specially for new-comers, the allignment, issues like ear-out, super and power represented by symbols are absolutely fine and the rear plate is fantastic - that was my only concern which has been raised by more than just me.

 Secondly Compass represents Audio GD, which is quite a conservative company and you will see the same conservativeness in all his gears.

 Finally, even Kingwa feels that the current 17-18 users would be in a better position to make comments on the fascia, as they have the gear physically in front of them, its different when you see something in pictures and something in front of you, so he is very interested to know what the users feel about it.

 Whether one agrees or not the poll was too short of a duration, I understand everyone wants to go ahead with things, but if you have decided to have a poll, then you have to give it a proper time-frame it needs. Its no use saying a big favor was done extending the poll from 6hours to 24 hours because the 6 hour poll seemed it was only meant for the residents of Louisiana - and also one have to remember that not all prospective buyers or Users of Compass have set up a tent in Head-Fi and living out here..

 So please stop calling people being small or childish.. and no one is taking anything away from Csroc's effort, He has been praised here and in the Chinese Forums.. Its just that it seems although the whole thing seems too long and consume many pages, I still feel it was done in a rush.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But.. that means going back and re-voting on the switch assignment also ( which i wanted to be preamp!) since it was the same polling method. I find it a stretch to think that there is someone out there trying to undermine your wishes. In this design process, everyone has shared ideas... and some are chosen and some are left behind. I have one of the prototypes.. and it looks like a prototype. Stuff is misaligned, screws covering labels and superfluous and bizarre wording... I like it in a quirky way, but don't think for a moment that is is up to the quality of the work that went inside. Csroc has done great work in cleaning all that up. Any of the top 2-3 designs would be a great choice. To dismiss the overwhelming winner and to say we have to change the poll because your design didn't win seems a bit small. Lets move on to the next step..._

 

The voting I was referring to was the faceplate, and since you bring up revoting the switch assignment, don't you think it is possible just one single person who really wanted bypass on the front can get a proxy changer and vote a bunch of times?

 Then you accuse me of thinking someone is trying to undermine my wishes, all it takes is a single person who wants things to be one way instead of another and has the motivation to use proxies to get the option he prefers.

 I think the slight changes you guys want to do for the faceplate will not make the compass feel (to YOU) "up to the quality of the work that went inside." Consider the screws on the sides and top popping above the chassis, the enlarged faceplate sticking past the sides and top, the slight opening in the right side of my chassis I can almost slide my credit card through, the neutrik jack which is a rectangle protruding from the front of the faceplate, the chassis itself which has horizontal streaks all across it. There are just too many things about the compass that will conflict with a "sleek" faceplate. The misalignments (including the fact the selector knob doesn't point exactly the selected input) pale in importance when you consider

 As for your claim that to dismissing the "overwhelming" winner because my choice didn't win... heh, it's the principle of the matter, living in Massachusetts (birthplace of democracy) I'd thought you'd have known that.


----------



## senn_liu

with all the commotion about the design of the front and rear, i'm just curious, since i've already ordered compass "v2a":

 what will the front and rear look like? the front will probably look like "v1", but the rear? can't look the same, with the new switches included...

 anybody?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then you accuse me of ..._


----------



## haloxt

That's a nice gif, but it's only half right. Regarding the voting situation, no one has laid a finger on me.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a nice gif, but it's only half right. Regarding the voting situation, no one has laid a finger on me._

 

Also... if you read my statement.. I NEVER accused you of anything. my statement was " I find it a stretch to think that there is someone out there trying to undermine your wishes." this means ME... I said nothing about what you believe. If you would like to share what you believe, feel free... but I never accused you of anything.


----------



## haloxt

It's not about the likelihood of someone voting multiple times, the possibility should be removed all the same because if it so happens someone does get the idea to use a proxy program, that's all it takes to really fudge up the votes.

 It's already quite apparent people here don't care about transparent voting so forget about all this.


----------



## Joeoboe

Yes... I guess it comes down to what amount of voting security is appropriate for this discussion. The one chosen by Carl is actually quite good and is used by lots of people for polling. You wouldn't want to elect a president that way... but it seems pretty secure for the general use of the public. There are always ways of hacking a system... but at some point, there are reasonable limits as to how secure you want a quick poll to be.
 In any case, all the winning designs look neat and clean. None of them look unprofessional. Everyone has different tastes ( one post preferred the look of the Zero over the Compass!) but you can't please everyone... so a nice clean design is probably best.


----------



## jron

I doubt anyone is completely satisfied with the final design but can't we just compromise and say that is is an improvement over the original? While I have problems with some aspects, overall, the Compass looks like something that would fetch $600 USD easily. No design can be perfect for everyone so let's just move on. To those who say the Zero looks good... there is no helping you.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you can't please everyone..._

 

I was just going to say that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with you buddy, but you are too late and the majority wins.. although I must confess the polls were a little too short in duration._

 

It is hard to figure out what on earth everyone really wants and how to proceed with something like this when people are pouring in different ideas and requesting all kinds of changes. The timeline is what it is and the decisions are what they are. I also am questioning whether the USB symbol should really be used and I would have rather let things run longer but I really don't know any other way to do it right now. If Kingwa wants to delay his meeting with the manufacturer then this process can be extended a bit _but I do not think that is a wise course of action considering things here_. Nobody should ever expect agreement on this anyway.

 I do agree that the symbolic approach is not one that really matches the rest of Kingwa's equipment. *If the Compass 18 want to send me a PM with how they think it should look I may do something with that. As someone mentioned earlier the Compass 18 are uniquely qualified to have an idea of how things will look on the real thing because we have one sitting next to us.* I can't promise it would lead to drastic changes, but there might be some adjustments so those of you that are on there please PM me. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW, I am so happy I have one of the 18s. The voted design makes me a little sad. Those symbols look annoying. That and if I were the designer for Meier Audio, I would be laughing so hard right now, or would I be pissed?_

 

Keep it then mbd, because there was no way to know it would wind up entirely symbolic. If you want to be helpful instead of abrasive, PM me with some of your ideas. I will post everything the Compass 18 PMs me.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many of us have already voiced the opinion that the compass has a big and rugged sort of look so putting computer symbols on it won't look all that good. But no one seems to care the slightest about what we've said about the actual 3-d appearance of the compass and how it differs from apple products in more ways than just faceplate decals and won't magically turn sleek once you put some symbols on it.

 Which is why I want a new poll with restrictions on users of this forum at a certain date and prior. But since no one seems to care at all of the possibility of one kooky person voting lots of times, I guess nothing can be done about it._

 

I'll say it one more time: you can make your own poll if you want.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

To think that somehow, we could deny conventional wisdom to reach consensus on and of the subjective is a fool's venture of the highest order. 

 IMHO this particular can of worms should have never been opened to begin with. The all to predictable results are strewn across the last 15 pages......

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To think that somehow, we could deny conventional wisdom to reach consensus on and of the subjective is a fool's venture of the highest order. 

 IMHO this particular can of worms should have never been opened to begin with. The all to predictable results are strewn across the last 15 pages......

 Peete._

 

There will never be agreement on a subjective matter, but what is annoying me presently is those complaining about the process who aren't going to do anything about it but complain. 

 I disagree that this should not have been discussed or started in the first place, but it has been clearly discussed in the past that you and I and others have different opinions about how our test Compass looks.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Denon D5000s are lower impedance than Grados from memory and they drive fine. Kingwa now has Grado SR-80s and AKG K701s for testing. I don't know how 600 Ohm cans would perform, but I don't see it as a problem. I'd be more worried why people are buying 600 Ohm headphones.

 My friend here now has Grado HF-1s, so I'll finally get a chance to get a good listen with a pair of Grados, which I haven't ever before.



 If you're up for the effort, then good on you for it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I reckon just paste here what you come up with and we'll give you feedback. What instructions are needed? Are they for changing the HDAM?_

 

As far as the 600 Ohm Canz are concerned ot maybe some WWII 2000 Ohm canz, I'm sure Kingwa will do the HIIGH gain mod on order. He will do all kinds of custom stuff. I ask him all kinds of questions about customization and he seems to have only one answer, YES!!

 .


----------



## HammerSandwich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do not have any vector drawing software ( well I do... but it is an obsolete format)... but to get the ball rolling for the inside cover:_

 

Isn't gain going to have a rear-panel switch?


----------



## HammerSandwich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's already quite apparent people here don't care about transparent voting so forget about all this._

 

Most people are happy, so long as they have the illusion of democracy/representation. BTW, I am NOT saying that I believe these polls were rigged.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HammerSandwich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Isn't gain going to have a rear-panel switch?_

 

Yes. Or a front panel switch. It is custom configurable.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HammerSandwich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most people are happy, so long as they have the illusion of democracy/representation. BTW, I am NOT saying that I believe these polls were rigged._

 

In the end although Kingwa asked that I have a poll I almost wish I had said early on that final design is subject to change based on magical criteria such as Kingwa's wishes and my own personal feelings about there being too many symbols 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I didn't really start this expecting it to become an official thing that would actually affect the Compass... but it did.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW, I am so happy I have one of the 18s. The voted design makes me a little sad. Those symbols look annoying. That and if I were the designer for Meier Audio, I would be laughing so hard right now, or would I be pissed?_

 

You guys should start a singing group:

 You can call it; "The Hanging Chads"!

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To think that somehow, we could deny conventional wisdom to reach consensus on and of the subjective is a fool's venture of the highest order. 

 IMHO this particular can of worms should have never been opened to begin with. The all to predictable results are strewn across the last 15 pages......

 Peete._

 

Maybe things should have been handled differently, maybe we shouldn't have made this a public topic of discussion in the first place.... But, considering the circumstances I think things have gone amazingly smoothly. It's only afterwards that people start feeling disenfranchised, because they feel their vote wasn't counted. Well, similar things happen in every election.

 Did I feel anything really needed changing in the looks of the original Compass? No, not really. But since the election for the change in design rendered a rather clearcut result, we might as well go with it.
 However, my advice would be not to disregard Kingwa's own insight in design either. Let's offer the new faceplate design as a suggestion to Kingwa and not as something that's set in stone.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To think that somehow, we could deny conventional wisdom to reach consensus on and of the subjective is a fool's venture of the highest order. 

 IMHO this particular can of worms should have never been opened to begin with. The all to predictable results are strewn across the last 15 pages......

 Peete._

 

Agreed. There is nothing wrong with the the Front Panel other than minor adjustments. Like centering Ear Out, possibly changing Super to Bypass, but as other said, doesn't matter, Super sounds find. I personally would get rid of Selector, which I may on my own. That I still think the voted changes just make the Compass look like a wannabe Meier Audio product. 

 I downloaded Curra's gif, cracks me up, its awesome.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_However, my advice would be not to disregard Kingwa's own insight in design either. Let's offer the new faceplate design as a suggestion to Kingwa and not as something that's set in stone._

 

I agree completely. I think its really important that the product reflect the character of the designer. While I see the quirks in the original, it has a lot of personality that I fear may be lost in the version designed by committee. 

 To be honest, while I originally was a supporter of the symbols, the more I look at Kingwa's original, the more I like it. Maybe I should get in early to try and get one of the initial 40...


----------



## jron

Please don't delay the process any longer. If there was a technical problem, that would be one thing... to keep this out of our hands over the paint is insanity.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe things should have been handled differently, maybe we shouldn't have made this a public topic of discussion in the first place.... But, considering the circumstances I think things have gone amazingly smoothly. It's only afterwards that people start feeling disenfranchised, because they feel their vote wasn't counted. Well, similar things happen in every election.

 Did I feel anything really needed changing in the looks of the original Compass? No, not really. But since the election for the change in design rendered a rather clearcut result, we might as well go with it.
 However, my advice would be not to disregard Kingwa's own insight in design either. Let's offer the new faceplate design as a suggestion to Kingwa and not as something that's set in stone._

 

I think it is an interesting learning experience. Kingwa had me keep it quite open to public choice when he told me to go ahead with creating some panel designs. Perhaps in the future if one were to repeat this the process would need to be a bit less open, as though one person is really in control but taking suggestions and opinions under advisement. I certainly don't think I would do it the same way again but it was still fun. I don't think Kingwa or I knew it would head off in a direction that is so different from other Audio-gd designs.

 Kingwa wants to follow my decision on the final design so I want to give him something that makes many people as happy as possible, improves on the original and I would rather not have it look much different from other Audio-gd products (the family line should be recognizable). At the same time many good ideas were offered and many good things came of it.

 My personal opinion is it would result in something like this if I were to do what you and I are talking about Drosera and make it a less public discussion and just be "the decider." (since there are already a bunch of political references in the thread)


----------



## HammerSandwich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. Or a front panel switch. It is custom configurable._

 

Sorry, it was a rhetorical question. More clearly: Joeoboe, we don't need gain jumper instructions inside the lid. OTOH, a guide to the switch-connection locations could prove worthwhile.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I think Kingwa should be the *ONLY* one deciding on the looks of *HIS* AMP/DAC. While we supply some advice on getting the script he has selected lined up properly.....period. That's it, that's how this should have played out IMHO.

 Peete.


----------



## Joeoboe

Csroc, I like that design as well. It was my second choice. Feel free to go with that if you like... I just like that it is much more polished than the prototype. If you go back to early Krell designs, they were also pretty industrial looking and not very polished... over the years their designs have become VERY slick and polished. It is a natural progression. I think we were trying to help Audio-gd get their act together in this regard. If you look at their stuff now, it has a variety of looks. I am sure in the future the company will mature into having a more unified theme... which I believe we are participating in right now.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HammerSandwich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, it was a rhetorical question. More clearly: Joeoboe, we don't need gain jumper instructions inside the lid. OTOH, a guide to the switch-connection locations could prove worthwhile._

 

Of course you are right... I was just looking inside the cover of my Compass and making a quick design based on that... now there will be a switch instead.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it is an interesting learning experience. Kingwa had me keep it quite open to public choice when he told me to go ahead with creating some panel designs. Perhaps in the future if one were to repeat this the process would need to be a bit less open, as though one person is really in control but taking suggestions and opinions under advisement. I certainly don't think I would do it the same way again but it was still fun. I don't think Kingwa or I knew it would head off in a direction that is so different from other Audio-gd designs.

 Kingwa wants to follow my decision on the final design so I want to give him something that makes many people as happy as possible, improves on the original and I would rather not have it look much different from other Audio-gd products (the family line should be recognizable). At the same time many good ideas were offered and many good things came of it.

 My personal opinion is it would result in something like this if I were to do what you and I are talking about Drosera and make it a less public discussion and just be "the decider." (since there are already a bunch of political references in the thread)_

 

Ok, one more political reference then: we (the Compass testers) could be the Electoral College of this whole business. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I actually have no real preference one way or the other. Whether we should go with the election result, or with, for example, your compromise-solution. (I do really like that one. Especially if we keep the same font. I just can't imagine anyone objecting to that lovely font.) What should be done, I think, is seriously trying to get Kingwa to voice his own opinion on the design. (This might actually be difficult, because he seems rather open to implementing any design that we end up voting for.) It should fit in with his other products. Any of the proposed designs already look plenty professional. Certainly if we compare it with, for example, Currawongs original C2C version. Just as long as nothing leaves Audio-gd again with those pricetag-like labels on it, I would already be satisfied.

 Agh, I'm just rambling here. (Bloodsugar-shortage: dinnertime!) It's difficult for me to have an opinion on this stuff anyways. I've always been a "content-person".


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Csroc, I like that design as well. It was my second choice. Feel free to go with that if you like... I just like that it is much more polished than the prototype. If you go back to early Krell designs, they were also pretty industrial looking and not very polished... over the years their designs have become VERY slick and polished. It is a natural progression. I think we were trying to help Audio-gd get their act together in this regard. If you look at their stuff now, it has a variety of looks. I am sure in the future the company will mature into having a more unified theme... which I believe we are participating in right now._

 

In the emails he and I have been exchanging I have reached this impression. Perhaps he does see this as an opportunity to do something new, I do not know for certain. I only know how I want to help him based on his request and that he wants what we choose.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, one more political reference then: we (the Compass testers) could be the Electoral College of this whole business. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I actually have no real preference one way or the other. Whether we should go with the election result, or with, for example, your compromise-solution. (I do really like that one. Especially if we keep the same font. I just can't imagine anyone objecting to that lovely font.) What should be done, I think, is seriously trying to get Kingwa to voice his own opinion on the design. (This might actually be difficult, because he seems rather open to implementing any design that we end up voting for.) It should fit in with his other products. Any of the proposed designs already look plenty professional. Certainly if we compare it with, for example, Currawongs original C2C version. Just as long as nothing leaves Audio-gd again with those pricetag-like labels on it, I would already be satisfied.

 Agh, I'm just rambling here. (Bloodsugar-shortage: dinnertime!) It's difficult for me to have an opinion on this stuff anyways. I've always been a "content-person"._

 

For some reason your reply made me smile. You are exactly right, I have been trying to get Kingwa to voice his opinion but his opinion is that our opinion is what matters! I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, but I have asked his direct opinion on the matter of symbols and how the Compass look should fit in with his other designs. I suspect I will hear his reply when it is morning again in China.

 To that end I drew up the compromise design as you call it which reverts to more text and maintains Kingwa's standard fonts. He values our opinion but wants me to advise him on what should be the final decision.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HammerSandwich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, it was a rhetorical question. More clearly: Joeoboe, we don't need gain jumper instructions inside the lid. OTOH, a guide to the switch-connection locations could prove worthwhile._

 

As far as the switch connections go... I have had a deep interest in this...but it will not be resolved soon. The switches are presently 3 different formats ( soldered, 2 pin plug, and part of a multi connector connection) so there is no way to plug in the switches where you like... yet!


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think Kingwa should be the *ONLY* one deciding on the looks of *HIS* AMP/DAC. While we supply some advice on getting the script he has selected lined up properly.....period. That's it, that's how this should have played out IMHO.

 Peete._

 

Yep. Stop the debate, discussions now. Let those who have been very patiently waiting for their Compass get their Compass and enjoy the SOUND, MUSIC. Allow Kingwa and Audio-gd employees be the ones to make the decisions. I personally think all their products look great. I still believe Kingwa when he sent the initial 18 batch, it was more about the SQ, the functionality of the Compass. Always had the impression he just put stuff together quick to get the testing out the quickest and after he would personally and rest of Audio-gd do the final cosmetics for a final version. Either way, clearly legibal, easy to use, easy to understand and if anyone knows about design, that's what is important. Easy to understand, use, and controls easy to access, it is intuitive.


----------



## stellablues

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 My personal opinion is it would result in something like this if I were to do what you and I are talking about Drosera and make it a less public discussion and just be "the decider." (since there are already a bunch of political references in the thread)_

 

I am not one of the "original 18" and I did not have the opportunity to vote, so my opinion does not matter much, but I agree with csroc. You should work with Kingwa to make the final decision. I also prefer your mockup the best. I am not partial to volume being an icon, FWIW.

 I just can't wait to get my hands on my very own!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ If you look at their stuff now, it has a variety of looks. I am sure in the future the company will mature into having a more unified theme... which I believe we are participating in right now._

 

I personally disagree, I think the looks of Audio GD products have the same looks, maybe unimpressive to some - but that is the truth, same quality inside and simplicity on the outside, the only thing which would have looked out of the theme would have been Compass. And one more thing about the company, as far as I personally feel, it does not have the intentions to compete with any company, but create a niche of its own - at least the way it stands today. 
 I feel he is basically an inside out man, whether its the outfit he wears, the car he drives or the gears he makes, and you cant change that, it will always reflect on his products.


----------



## broodwich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it is an interesting learning experience. Kingwa had me keep it quite open to public choice when he told me to go ahead with creating some panel designs. Perhaps in the future if one were to repeat this the process would need to be a bit less open, as though one person is really in control but taking suggestions and opinions under advisement. I certainly don't think I would do it the same way again but it was still fun. I don't think Kingwa or I knew it would head off in a direction that is so different from other Audio-gd designs.

 Kingwa wants to follow my decision on the final design so I want to give him something that makes many people as happy as possible, improves on the original and I would rather not have it look much different from other Audio-gd products (the family line should be recognizable). At the same time many good ideas were offered and many good things came of it._

 

I think it's great that Kingwa is even willing to allow the public to have input on the design of his product. The final design for the front and rear panel graphics may not be exactly suit my personal tastes. I didn't vote for the design that is the current leader. However, the designs that csroc has come up with are much cleaner and more ascetically pleasing than the original design. Once again I appreciate the work that csroc has put into this. I also appreciate the fact that audio-gd is willing to allow this input. If you were buying an amplifier from Sony, they wouldn't allow you to make requests nor would they change their designs to accommodate your personal preferences.

 I would be willing to bet that if 100 people were surveyed on how they wanted the panel designs to look, on how they wanted the buttons to be configured, on the headphone jack style, and how they wanted the gain jumpers to be configured we would probably get 97-98 different answers.

 I'm looking forward to a proper headphone amp and DAC (my first) with all the features I could want, at a price that I can afford.


----------



## dBs

Hey, Pete, I think we get it, same MBD. What was your opinions again on the matter? I forgot =P Same goes for the other two sides of the battle (too many to name). Just keep it productive. I think its been more than 15 pages, lol XD "Stop the debate, discussions now. Let those who have been very patiently waiting for their Compass get their Compass", I definitely agree with that though!

 Whats a bigger priority right now? Fair election or meeting the deadline? Usually deadline trumps, but thats a matter of personal priorities which will likely be on a case by case basis. I suspect everyone has made some kind of compromise in this process, no one has achieved their personal "ideal", and thats to be expected. "You can please everyone all of the time".

 Im curious how the Compass would fare for gaming XD I dont expect it to be amazing or anything since its not meant for gaming, but it would be fun to see how it performs in an FPS environment. I have heard of people using the Zero for gaming at tournaments before, might be fun to pull out the Compass at my next event, lol.


----------



## csroc

I would think it would be great for gaming although I have not even tried it since I use a headset connected to my computer's front panel mic & headphone jacks for gaming.

 dBs, a deadline hasn't been set by Kingwa but my wish is that he keeps his original meeting time with the manufacturer this weekend. I do not want to create any kind of delay and so far I don't believe there has been one.

 Everyone else, the V2a Compass as some are calling it might even be in production already. I did not realize he was waiting for confirmation on what the gain should be before he started producing them so I took care of making sure he was informed yesterday.

 As a side note, SurveyMonkey does allow one to share the results of a poll directly with everyone via a link, however that requires a paid subscription and I'm using their free service which limits some features. That is why I've had to post screen-caps or figures I've created from the poll results.


----------



## sandchak

Coming to Compass, I agree with Peete that it should finally be Kingwa's decision on whatever changes, although I am sure if he has asked csroc to deal with the issue, then he must have had some flexibility in his mind - Sure he wants to do something new, Compass itself is something new for Audio GD. He has personally thanked and applauded csroc in his forum, saying he is grateful to Carl for those designs " Free of Charge" - just like the way we have out here. At least I believe that if not for Csroc's efforts we would be having the really good rear plate that we have now. I just saw the compromise design csroc has come up with, I think it looks really nice.. why dont we just give him that compromise option, plus the winner of the poll option and the option where he could just align the face-plate on the existing Compass and let him decide.. in this case no further polls are needed, you have the "winner" the "compromise" and the "original with rectifications"..


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He has personally thanked and applauded csroc in his forum, saying he is grateful to Carl for those designs " Free of Charge"_

 

Thats quite true too. My buddy does freelance design work. It is VERY expensive =X Not just him either, but in general. Good design work, with as many mock-ups as has been made by a single man, would have cost quite a pretty penny. True, that unwanted work is still unwanted and its tough to tell if Kingwa is truly appreciative or just being polite to his customer base, but I expect that given his original intent, a collaborative effort (the first time) between the designer and the customer, its exactly what he was expecting and looking for.


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats quite true too. My buddy does freelance design work. It is VERY expensive =X Not just him either, but in general. Good design work, with as many mock-ups as has been made by a single man, would have cost quite a pretty penny. True, that unwanted work is still unwanted and its tough to tell if Kingwa is truly appreciative or just being polite to his customer base, but I expect that given his original intent, a collaborative effort (the first time) between the designer and the customer, its exactly what he was expecting and looking for._

 

dBs: I've used a friends Zero before and we played Counter-Strike for a couple hours; I wasn't overly wooed by it. A good soundcard would be best for 100% gaming, then you can have your DAC for listening to music at home etc. Plus it would be kind of a pain to carry around one extra thing to events


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My personal opinion is it would result in something like this_

 

Something like that would have been my choice as well. Of course they all looked nice.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just saw the compromise design csroc has come up with, I think it looks really nice.. why dont we just give him that compromise option, plus the winner of the poll option and the option where he could just align the face-plate on the existing Compass and let him decide.. in this case no further polls are needed, you have the "winner" the "compromise" and the "original with rectifications".._

 

Completely agree.


----------



## Shoreman

2854 bleepin' posts spread over 191 pages...

 Boy...I pity any newcomer to this thread, especially if all he wants to know is "_Gee, how does this new Compass I'm hearing about sound?" _(I pity *myself*...15 minutes just to catch up on the morning news!)
 All well-intentioned folks...albeit running in different directions.

 A regular (you'll excuse the expression) Chinese fire-drill!

 Not that I'm complaining, mind you...


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why dont we just give him that compromise option, plus the winner of the poll option and the option where he could just align the face-plate on the existing Compass and let him decide.. in this case no further polls are needed, you have the "winner" the "compromise" and the "original with rectifications".._

 

That is an option. When Kingwa is back on this evening (my time) I will talk with him a bit more and see what he wants to do. I have a feeling he'd like me to decide 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_True, that unwanted work is still unwanted and its tough to tell if Kingwa is truly appreciative or just being polite to his customer base, but I expect that given his original intent, a collaborative effort (the first time) between the designer and the customer, its exactly what he was expecting and looking for._

 

Are you the nagging voice in the back of my head?


----------



## sandchak

csroc;5439871 said:
			
		

> That is an option. When Kingwa is back on this evening (my time) I have a feeling he'd like me to decide
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im curious how the Compass would fare for gaming XD I dont expect it to be amazing or anything since its not meant for gaming, but it would be fun to see how it performs in an FPS environment. I have heard of people using the Zero for gaming at tournaments before, might be fun to pull out the Compass at my next event, lol._

 

I prefer the Zero over the X-Fi Xtremegamer. Unless the Compass gets funny with the sound stage I'm sure it will be great as well.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I know him, Yes that would be the case as an appreciation to your efforts.. how you take it further from there depends on you....._

 

Indeed. He shouldn't be overly concerned with doing so, it is his product and it ultimately represents his company. I plan to proceed softly but with a push for him to voice his personal opinion on the design.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I prefer the Zero over the X-Fi Xtremegamer. Unless the Compass gets funny with the sound stage I'm sure it will be great as well._

 

Agreed - don't have a compass (yet) but my Zero/LD MKIII combo is FAR better for gaming than the headphone out of the same sound card. It gives a better and bigger sense of space and really adds some oomph to explosions and gun shots etc.


----------



## Taikero

I think it would have been a mistake if the community didn't collaborate on the outer design of the Compass, just as it has collaborated on the rest of this project from the beginning.

 After all, the idea of a compass is that it's a guiding mechanism. The community's ideas and opinions in _guiding]i] this project are important beyond measure, as the entire point of this project is for the community to guide a manufacturer in building a quality, decent cost product that the community actually wants. I hardly see the logic in saying the community's input should end once a manufacturer has been found or early production has started, no matter the manufacturer's (amazing or not) talents in engineering, design, or otherwise.

 Kingwa specifically stated he wanted feedback on these first units, because he really gets this project and its purpose. Why is it some of us seem so quick to toss all ownership and responsibility for this on the manufacturer? There are at least 2,859 reasons we have a vested interest in how this product turns out, so why shouldn't our ideas matter? Would it be right if only one person's ideas or feedback was considered at this point, which could arguably be considered the "alpha" or possibly "beta" stage? I think not.

 I also do want to clarify that Kingwa should also be considered a part of the community, but I get frustrated when I see certain people advocating that it should be "all about Kingwa" or "all about what csroc and Kingwa" think, or even "all about what the original 18 think + Kingwa". I think as many as possible should be involved here. That's what has made this project so successful thus far._


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Something like that would have been my choice as well. Of course they all looked nice._

 

Here's the real problem here. There are the "Usual" folks here that want their way, and that's' it. Others' opinions or votes don't really matter to them. The premise of this thread was one of group development. Some accept this, some don't. There are going to be at least 20 something people according to the Poll who will not like the results. Part of the remaining voters, this would have been their second choice. Some of these folks are VERY vocal and enjoy bullying folks in this thread as well as other threads. 

 There is a "feature" that the overwhelming majority of folks here would not give up for anything.

 Let me refresh your memories of just "one" "discussion" along these lines.

 See post Here and the following post for an example of the tactics employed here.

 Coredump, I chose to tag onto your post with this. It's not personal. But I have an observation to make about this slant in the thread.

 This is your first post in this thread. It would be very easy for a new Poll to be done. There are folks in this thread that can make these results come out any way they want. I am using you as an example. No accusations, you are just used to illustrate a point. If I wanted Panel Z to come out in the next poll, and I knew lots of folks at head-Fi, I just send out an email to my Buddies and say, I need your help here. Please go to this link and vote for Panel Z. Or go to this thread and voice this opinion.

 Moral: No way to make a Perfectly Fair Poll. The fact that this thread has gone this direction suggests to me that all subsequent polls wold be more suspect than the Polls that have come before. 

 Additionally if a LOUD minority can change the results, what was the point in the first place.

 An American influenced Poll! Now that's really funny! If this isn't a Multi national thread, I don't know what is. America Bashing, do it if it makes you feel better! The Poll was ran overnight for US time zones, all the folks in Louisiana are in the Middle of Mardi Gras right now and are too drunk to care about the Compass polls! The rest of the country was asleep. It was supposedly to close around 8AM EST. I would not say that was an American centric poll. CSROC let it run after the close time. The close time I "believe" was suggested by Curra. The close time was suggested to just get this behind us, well that didn't work.

 Since history is being re-written here, let's just make sure the facts are straight. There were trends in the posts long before the polls were done. After all, where did the Icons come from, the THREAD. It was suggested, people said, "hey that's interesting", let's work on that. It was easy to predict the poll results from the thread trend. All along the way, the "Vocals" were Kvetching LOUDLY.

 <Put on FlameSuit>
 .


----------



## jron

I think Kingwa could make a killing selling different face plates... Who knew people cared THIS much?


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Coredump, I chose to tag onto your post with this. It's not personal. But I have an observation to make about this slant in the thread._

 

Hey no problem. I could feel the tension building in thread and I debated whether I should post that. I didn't vote and I didn't intend for that to be a vote. It was just an observation. With too many cooks in the kitchen this discussion is getting heated.


----------



## theBigD

Hey Pete, are you anywhere near getting the next part of your review posted? This dialog about asthetics is interesting, if not drawn out a bit long for a community that evolves around the psychoacoustics of headphones and headphone related equipment. You have wetted my appetite but now I am growing hungry for the main course!


----------



## mrchyles

I just pre-ordered (actually am about to) the Compass. It was exactly what I have been looking for in headamp/dac, at a great price. I have a good idea of the internal design, and general features, but I am incredibly confused on how the OUTSIDE of it will look. Will there be a switch to select sound modes (every other switch seems to be implemented or at least suggested)? Can anyone post a pic of the final design, or link to one? I have spent nearly 45 min trying to wade through this mess looking for a conclusive answer. Any help would be appreciated! 

 Oh, I thought I heard somewhere that this was a dual mono design similar to the little dot Mk V, is that true?

 Thanks!!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey no problem. I could feel the tension building in thread and I debated whether I should post that. I didn't vote and I didn't intend for that to be a vote. It was just an observation. With too many cooks in the kitchen this discussion is getting heated._

 

Hi,
 I was hoping you wouldn't be ticked I picked your post as an example. This was your first post in the thread. It could be "suspected" that you were invited here to bolster a particular side. 

 It also may be the case that there are a zillion lurkers out there, and some may have voted and some may not have.

 It also may be the case, that there are a lot of people out there who would vote in an anonymous poll but would never post in a thread where their opinion may be immediately attacked and met with Vitriol because their opinion ran counter to others. Sorta like having a Bully in your neighborhood. People look out the window, but won't go out on the street.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrchyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just pre-ordered (actually am about to) the Compass. It was exactly what I have been looking for in headamp/dac, at a great price. I have a good idea of the internal design, and general features, but I am incredibly confused on how the OUTSIDE of it will look. Will there be a switch to select sound modes (every other switch seems to be implemented or at least suggested)? Can anyone post a pic of the final design, or link to one? I have spent nearly 45 min trying to wade through this mess looking for a conclusive answer. Any help would be appreciated! 

 Oh, I thought I heard somewhere that this was a dual mono design similar to the little dot Mk V, is that true?

 Thanks!!_

 


 If you figure out what it is going to look like, PLEASE let the rest of us know!

 Ohh, nowhere near the separation of the LD

 .


----------



## mrchyles

I think I confused the c2c and the compass. Out of the three opamps offered is there a best, or is it merely preference?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrchyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just pre-ordered (actually am about to) the Compass. It was exactly what I have been looking for in headamp/dac, at a great price. I have a good idea of the internal design, and general features, but I am incredibly confused on how the OUTSIDE of it will look. Will there be a switch to select sound modes (every other switch seems to be implemented or at least suggested)? Can anyone post a pic of the final design, or link to one? I have spent nearly 45 min trying to wade through this mess looking for a conclusive answer. Any help would be appreciated! 

 Oh, I thought I heard somewhere that this was a dual mono design similar to the little dot Mk V, is that true?

 Thanks!!_

 

If you buy a Compass now you'll get one that looks like what is on the Compass page on Audio-dg's site. There will be two new switches on the back as well as two new RCA jacks for preamp out. Otherwise it is the same.

 The updated design (which appears to still be somewhat in flux) will not take effect or actually be available for at least a month from what I understand. That's the case whether it's one of the newly developed designs from here or something Kingwa makes himself.

 In the end a switch to select sound modes did not survive the collective decision making process for better or for worse.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Taikero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it would have been a mistake if the community didn't collaborate on the outer design of the Compass, just as it has collaborated on the rest of this project from the beginning.


 Kingwa specifically stated he wanted feedback on these first units, because he really gets this project and its purpose. Why is it some of us seem so quick to toss all ownership and responsibility for this on the manufacturer? There are at least 2,859 reasons we have a vested interest in how this product turns out, so why shouldn't our ideas matter? Would it be right if only one person's ideas or feedback was considered at this point, which could arguably be considered the "alpha" or possibly "beta" stage? I think not.

 I also do want to clarify that Kingwa should also be considered a part of the community, but I get frustrated when I see certain people advocating that it should be "all about Kingwa" or "all about what csroc and Kingwa" think, or even "all about what the original 18 think + Kingwa". I think as many as possible should be involved here. That's what has made this project so successful thus far._

 

Yes... great point. Sometimes I feel there are lots of "nay-sayers" who want to end ideas rather than discuss ideas. I think the positive flow of ideas is what CREATED the Compass. There is no need to fear discussion.
 In any case, this part of the process is nearly done, and we can all soon move on.


----------



## mrchyles

I have AKG 701s and only a headroom portable amp, I don't really know what to expect from a higher quality amp. Will the difference be pretty vast, or not so much?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrchyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have AKG 701s and only a headroom portable amp, I don't really know what to expect from a higher quality amp. Will the difference be pretty vast, or not so much?_

 

What's your source? If you don't have any other source than plugging your amp in your computer, then you can expect a huge improvement from using something like the Compass (source and amp in one).


----------



## D.C.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stock cable. 

 I had a DIY cable I bought off a fellow member here in the F/S section that I really enjoyed but it fell apart 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I wouldn't bother with the upgrade cable for the 650's DC...they are ridiculously expensive and that money could be better spent elsewhere (like source upgrades) IMO.

 But if your heart is set on one there are a number of them, Stefan Audio, Moon Audio, Zu Mobius, are three that I can think of ...all are big bucks though.

Headphone Cable

Stefan AudioArt Home

Mobius Sennâ„¢ Mk2 Sennheiser Headphone Cable



 Peete._

 

Thanks Peete


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's the real problem here. There are the "Usual" folks here that want their way, and that's' it. Others' opinions or votes don't really matter to them. The premise of this thread was one of group development. Some accept this, some don't. There are going to be at least 20 something people according to the Poll who will not like the results. Part of the remaining voters, this would have been their second choice. Some of these folks are VERY vocal and enjoy bullying folks in this thread as well as other threads. 

 There is a "feature" that the overwhelming majority of folks here would not give up for anything.

 Let me refresh your memories of just "one" "discussion" along these lines.

 See post Here and the following post for an example of the tactics employed here.

 Coredump, I chose to tag onto your post with this. It's not personal. But I have an observation to make about this slant in the thread.

 This is your first post in this thread. It would be very easy for a new Poll to be done. There are folks in this thread that can make these results come out any way they want. I am using you as an example. No accusations, you are just used to illustrate a point. If I wanted Panel Z to come out in the next poll, and I knew lots of folks at head-Fi, I just send out an email to my Buddies and say, I need your help here. Please go to this link and vote for Panel Z. Or go to this thread and voice this opinion.

 Moral: No way to make a Perfectly Fair Poll. The fact that this thread has gone this direction suggests to me that all subsequent polls wold be more suspect than the Polls that have come before. 

 Additionally if a LOUD minority can change the results, what was the point in the first place.

 An American influenced Poll! Now that's really funny! If this isn't a Multi national thread, I don't know what is. America Bashing, do it if it makes you feel better! The Poll was ran overnight for US time zones, all the folks in Louisiana are in the Middle of Mardi Gras right now and are too drunk to care about the Compass polls! The rest of the country was asleep. It was supposedly to close around 8AM EST. I would not say that was an American centric poll. CSROC let it run after the close time. The close time I "believe" was suggested by Curra. The close time was suggested to just get this behind us, well that didn't work.

 Since history is being re-written here, let's just make sure the facts are straight. There were trends in the posts long before the polls were done. After all, where did the Icons come from, the THREAD. It was suggested, people said, "hey that's interesting", let's work on that. It was easy to predict the poll results from the thread trend. All along the way, the "Vocals" were Kvetching LOUDLY.

 <Put on FlameSuit>
 ._

 

Les,
 I have not always agreed with all your preferences on the Compass, but you have always tried to present your opinion without putting down others. I have tried to state my opinions also, without being emotionally invested in the final results. This is, after all, a collaborative effort.
 This last post you made was the most insightful thing I have read on this thread in like... 100 pages! I urge people to carefully re-read it (which is why I quoted the entire thing).


----------



## theBigD

I just recently upgraded from from portable Go-Vibe to EF1 with my akg 701 and 701s improved in every way from wider soundstage to lower bass response with more aggression and dynamics. As Drosera said the dac will improve things quite a bit as well.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrchyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have AKG 701s and only a headroom portable amp, I don't really know what to expect from a higher quality amp. Will the difference be pretty vast, or not so much?_

 

I also use 701s and upgraded from an modded Zero to the Compass. It seemed a pretty significant difference in all respects. If you find yourself listening to very dynamic music or lots of deep bass, the incredilble power output ( somewhere around 1200mW at 64 ohms) of the Compass will be very noticeable.
 Of course... only YOU can make the final determination... but I LIKE very much!


----------



## mrchyles

Yeah, my source is my lame computer. Any suggestions for the opamp? Is it worth the $20 to replace the moon with the earth or the sun, if so which one? (sounds like a strange question...)


----------



## Toe Tag

Quote:


 If any customers desire to add preamp output function in Compass, we will do the modifications. But it will require some time (in which case, Shipment will be on the 8th of Feb), for this modification we will need to drill two extra holes (by handwork) to install RCA sockets ,and also add a switch to select headphone output or preamp output , all these will be installed on the back panel. 
 

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 I sure want the pre-amp output. And I sure won't put up with bullying from the in-crowd. Indeed when I suggested "don't move knobs, that way you can sell a replacement faceplate to old users or the unlucky 80 first buyers" the response was the same tactic "oh well, its the way it is because its the way it is". You could write a rhetoric and a psychology textbook based on how people behave in forums.

 Is there any particular downside to adding the pre-amp output? King-wa says he'll do it as rework (see above). Is the idea that it costs extra and the people who don't want it (for reasons of cost? performance? please explain yourselves) don't want to pay for a feature they won't use? Or do they just enjoy bullying for its own sake?

 Let's put this to a poll. Do you want a pre-amp output by default on the new model: yes or no. And you are saying that even if the dominators deign to a poll they can just go out and skew it? But if we when, maybe King-wa can then offer a new option: rework to unscrew the 2 extra plugs and fill the holes with putty...


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toe Tag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 I sure want the pre-amp output. And I sure won't put up with bullying from the in-crowd. Indeed when I suggested "don't move knobs, that way you can sell a replacement faceplate to old users or the unlucky 80 first buyers" the response was the same tactic "oh well, its the way it is because its the way it is". You could write a rhetoric and a psychology textbook based on how people behave in forums.

 Is there any particular downside to adding the pre-amp output? King-wa says he'll do it as rework (see above). Is the idea that it costs extra and the people who don't want it (for reasons of cost? performance? please explain yourselves) don't want to pay for a feature they won't use? Or do they just enjoy bullying for its own sake?

 Let's put this to a poll. Do you want a pre-amp output by default on the new model: yes or no. And you are saying that even if the dominators deign to a poll they can just go out and skew it? But if we when, maybe King-wa can then offer a new option: rework to unscrew the 2 extra plugs and fill the holes with putty..._

 

Uhm, yeah..., uhm, your point being...?

 That stuff you quoted there only applied to the first 18 units. Pre-amp will come as standard on all the new versions. Whether the first 80 or the ones after that. No extra cost. Just more versatility. Period.


----------



## Toe Tag

That's great news about the pre-amp out. That said, the part in my post that wasn't quoted (probably because thats how the quote button on this website behaves), where king-wa offers to add pre-amp output, that's what confused me.  Quote:


 " Please Note : If any customers desire to add preamp output function in Compass, we will do the modifications. But it will require some time (in which case, Shipment will be on the 8th of Feb), for this modification we will need to drill two extra holes (by handwork) to install RCA sockets ,and also add a switch to select headphone output or preamp output , all these will be installed on the back panel." 
 

 Anyway, I'm sure King-wa is doing stuff that's important for everyone, and I look forward to them eventually updating their website to provide accurate information, as an alternative to reading the 2800 posts here.


----------



## csroc

That refers only to people ordering the test Compass I think. It's old news now and could be removed from the page. All the new Compass' will have the preamp, as well as a gain switch.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toe Tag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 I sure want the pre-amp output. And I sure won't put up with bullying from the in-crowd. Indeed when I suggested "don't move knobs, that way you can sell a replacement faceplate to old users or the unlucky 80 first buyers" the response was the same tactic "oh well, its the way it is because its the way it is". You could write a rhetoric and a psychology textbook based on how people behave in forums.

 Is there any particular downside to adding the pre-amp output? King-wa says he'll do it as rework (see above). Is the idea that it costs extra and the people who don't want it (for reasons of cost? performance? please explain yourselves) don't want to pay for a feature they won't use? Or do they just enjoy bullying for its own sake?

 Let's put this to a poll. Do you want a pre-amp output by default on the new model: yes or no. And you are saying that even if the dominators deign to a poll they can just go out and skew it? But if we when, maybe King-wa can then offer a new option: rework to unscrew the 2 extra plugs and fill the holes with putty..._

 

Other than what's already been answered I'm not sure what a lot of this is asking/saying.


----------



## glitch39

*this collaborative dac/amp effort is now turning into a bickering session. c'mon folks, let's all discuss how to make this a better product!*


----------



## coredump

Dual Headphone jacks with A/B button!

 Just kidding.


----------



## gevorg

Which OPA is recommended for markl D5000? (i.e. its bass is not as excessive as the stock unit).


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrchyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, my source is my lame computer. Any suggestions for the opamp? Is it worth the $20 to replace the moon with the earth or the sun, if so which one? (sounds like a strange question...)_

 

I believe the new "default" HDAM is the Earth. The Moon was shipped in the originals and it seems everyone preferred the Earth over the Moon... or at least I do not recall hearing anyone say differently. THe Moon really was nice though... if I didn't hear the Earth I probably wouljd have still been quite pleased. In fact, if an expansive soundstage is your thing, the Moon is the one to get. The Earth seems more neutral with better bass.


----------



## Joeoboe

Csroc,
 Any input or update on the inner "jumper guide"? I wish I owned Illustrator so I could have made you a useful file to work with!


----------



## cynan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe the new "default" HDAM is the Earth. The Moon was shipped in the originals and it seems everyone preferred the Earth over the Moon... or at least I do not recall hearing anyone say differently. THe Moon really was nice though... if I didn't hear the Earth I probably wouljd have still been quite pleased. In fact, if an expansive soundstage is your thing, the Moon is the one to get. The Earth seems more neutral with better bass._

 


 So then, is there any scenario where the SUN HDAM is preferable? I have not heard much mention of it.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Csroc,
 Any input or update on the inner "jumper guide"? I wish I owned Illustrator so I could have made you a useful file to work with!_

 

That's quite alright. It will be quick and easy to create I think.

 I will have to ask Kingwa tonight what the different settings are so that I can put some of that on the guide.

 I also think that there should still be "when installing Audio-gd discrete OPA" instructions although someone (maybe you?) felt that might not be good since various opamps could fit in there. I think maybe even for someone putting some other opamps in there having a reminder to align the notches wouldn't hurt. Plenty of space under there.


----------



## haloxt

Does anyone know if the volume knob can be jammed or modified to stop turning at a specific distance? Those of us hovering around 8 o clock might need to reset the max to 10 o clock to avoid pranksters blowing up our eardrums.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cynan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So then, is there any scenario where the SUN HDAM is preferable? I have not heard much mention of it._

 

When I switch everything to stock the sun sounds pretty good because it is more hyper than the other two and makes music enjoyable by adding some umph. I think the other two sound better than sun when a system is very resolving. But I think I agree with majkel when he said the sun v2 was trying to paint a rainbow with 5 colors when 7 are called for (but he said this before he went from 12v to 15v and now he likes the sun better than t he other two). I still switch back every now and then to see if I like it better than the other two, but the missing colors coupled with its up-front presentation is a bit overwhelming.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's the real problem here. There are the "Usual" folks here that want their way, and that's' it. Others' opinions or votes don't really matter to them. The premise of this thread was one of group development. Some accept this, some don't. There are going to be at least 20 something people according to the Poll who will not like the results. Part of the remaining voters, this would have been their second choice. Some of these folks are VERY vocal and enjoy bullying folks in this thread as well as other threads. 

 There is a "feature" that the overwhelming majority of folks here would not give up for anything.

 Let me refresh your memories of just "one" "discussion" along these lines.

 See post Here and the following post for an example of the tactics employed here.

 Coredump, I chose to tag onto your post with this. It's not personal. But I have an observation to make about this slant in the thread.

 This is your first post in this thread. It would be very easy for a new Poll to be done. There are folks in this thread that can make these results come out any way they want. I am using you as an example. No accusations, you are just used to illustrate a point. If I wanted Panel Z to come out in the next poll, and I knew lots of folks at head-Fi, I just send out an email to my Buddies and say, I need your help here. Please go to this link and vote for Panel Z. Or go to this thread and voice this opinion.

 Moral: No way to make a Perfectly Fair Poll. The fact that this thread has gone this direction suggests to me that all subsequent polls wold be more suspect than the Polls that have come before. 

 Additionally if a LOUD minority can change the results, what was the point in the first place.

 An American influenced Poll! Now that's really funny! If this isn't a Multi national thread, I don't know what is. America Bashing, do it if it makes you feel better! The Poll was ran overnight for US time zones, all the folks in Louisiana are in the Middle of Mardi Gras right now and are too drunk to care about the Compass polls! The rest of the country was asleep. It was supposedly to close around 8AM EST. I would not say that was an American centric poll. CSROC let it run after the close time. The close time I "believe" was suggested by Curra. The close time was suggested to just get this behind us, well that didn't work.

 Since history is being re-written here, let's just make sure the facts are straight. There were trends in the posts long before the polls were done. After all, where did the Icons come from, the THREAD. It was suggested, people said, "hey that's interesting", let's work on that. It was easy to predict the poll results from the thread trend. All along the way, the "Vocals" were Kvetching LOUDLY.

 <Put on FlameSuit>
 ._

 

Hear, hear.


----------



## stellablues

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... and he said that because I'd found the C2C bright, he'd made the Compass slightly softer in the treble. 

 I've suggested now that the current sound become the 1st soft setting, and the Compass be tuned totally neutral, which means that the final version will sound slightly brighter, with the option for the sound you hear in the test units being available via a jumper setting, for people who find the treble bright._

 

Did this issue ever get sorted out? is the newer version going to have this adjustment made? Just following up to understand if I should order today or wait. I would like to see this modification happen althought I have not heard the unit yet...


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_with all the commotion about the design of the front and rear, i'm just curious, since i've already ordered compass "v2a":

 what will the front and rear look like? the front will probably look like "v1", but the rear? can't look the same, with the new switches included...

 anybody?_

 

The rear panel on V2a should just have an extra opening above the Opt jack for the new Gain switch. The redesigned rear panel for V2b does not map perfectly with the existing panel--on the same vertical plane as the Opt and USB openings, and the Preamp switch is now on the left. I imagine Kingwa would be receptive to having the Preamp switch on the left and the Gain switch on the right for purchasers of V2a.

 Peete, since you have the Preamp switch on your Compass do you see any pros / cons for having the Preamp switch on the left and Gain switch on the right or vice versa i.e., shorter lines leading to better SQ?


----------



## csroc

Regarding the preamp switch on the left vs the right on the new back panel design (V2b), I just put it next to the actual preamp outputs because that made the most sense to me. 

 On V2a when they start shipping I have no idea where they'll go, I don't know if Peete's is indicative of how how all V2as will look.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I don't think it'll matter too much Tweak. The only thing I'd like to make sure off is making sure they are pointed the same direction when engaged meaning pre on gain = 9db. That way you know it's set up right without having to look (say if that meant both left or up...you get the idea).

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stellablues* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did this issue ever get sorted out? is the newer version going to have this adjustment made? Just following up to understand if I should order today or wait. I would like to see this modification happen althought I have not heard the unit yet... _

 

The production version will have this section voicing options-

 Neutral- unchanged from test unit (5hz -1db to 60Khz -3db) Supposed to be Audio-gd house sound for Neutral.
 Bright- slight bright boost -Kingwa's discression, no details yet.
 Soft Mode 1 - same as before
 Soft Mode 2 - same as before

 Peete.


----------



## punk_guy182

I strongly recommend to get rid of the soft modes. Neutral is the way to go and it could get the price down and I would put in better parts in it instead.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's quite alright. It will be quick and easy to create I think.

 I will have to ask Kingwa tonight what the different settings are so that I can put some of that on the guide.

 I also think that there should still be "when installing Audio-gd discrete OPA" instructions although someone (maybe you?) felt that might not be good since various opamps could fit in there. I think maybe even for someone putting some other opamps in there having a reminder to align the notches wouldn't hurt. Plenty of space under there._

 

I would never consider handicapping the Compass by replacing the HDAM with an opamp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 We could also put the full instructions for swapping the HDAM in the pdf manual. Under the cover couljd be an abreviated version showing the proper alignment.
 One note I *do* have is that Kingwa never marked my original Moon HDAM as far as orientation goes... no mark to indicate the notch position... I noticed it when swapping in the Earth and so I marked it myself... but I am wondering if it was just MY Moon HDAM that was unmarked... or were they all left unmarked?
 If so, we should let Kingwa know of this oversight.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Regarding the preamp switch on the left vs the right on the new back panel design (V2b), I just put it next to the actual preamp outputs because that made the most sense to me. 

 On V2a when they start shipping I have no idea where they'll go, I don't know if Peete's is indicative of how how all V2as will look._

 

I concur the Preamp switch on the left side has the logical flow line for the sample drawing of the rear panel.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think it'll matter too much Tweak. The only thing I'd like to make sure off is making sure they are pointed the same direction when engaged meaning pre on gain = 9db. That way you know it's set up right without having to look (say if that meant both left or up...you get the idea).

 Peete._

 

Good point on the switches pointing in the same direction when engaged. Looking at the rear panel of your Compass, when the Preamp switch is in the On position is it pointing to 3 o'clock and the Off position at 9 o'clock? In real world use of the Preamp function (facing the front panel), would the engagement steps be: 1) flick Gain switch to RIGHT for L or 9dB, followed by 2) flick Preamp switch to RIGHT for On position or the other way around?


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The production version will have this section voicing options-

 Neutral- unchanged from test unit (5hz -1db to 60Khz -3db) Supposed to be Audio-gd house sound for Neutral.
 Bright- slight bright boost -Kingwa's discression, no details yet.
 Soft Mode 1 - same as before
 Soft Mode 2 - same as before

 Peete._

 

VERY interesting... I wonder how the circuit will be layed out. I like the fact that neutral setting right now has no jumpers and has the simplest circuit.
 It appears that the way the filters work on the prototype is by putting the soft 1 and soft 2 in combination to create the soft 3 setting. I am curious on how this will work with a bright setting in the mix... unless the bright setting is the default, and then you add filtering to make it neutral. That way you would add the neutral filtering to soft1 to get your soft 2 filter... hmm.
 Of course, Kingwa had spoken of redesigning the way the filters were designed so that they could be attached to a switch...perhaps the tone circuit is entirely different than the old one... but I was under the impression this was an idea rather than a plan... so I guess we will have to wait to see it all done before we can make any judgments on this.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Just take a black sharpie and put an M S or E on the gray caps on either side. Works great.

 I wouldn't bother with IC OPA's either but there's no accounting for taste (including my own). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just take a black sharpie and put an M S or E on the gray caps on either side. Works great.

 I wouldn't bother with IC OPA's either but there's no accounting for taste (including my own). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

No... I meant that the mark on the connector where he puts a "half moon" mark to indicate the correct polarity of the HDAM... there was none on my Moon. If this was just a single error... no problem. But.. I was wondering if the other ones were marked or missed... hmmm...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I wondered how he would work that out as well...but he said it could be done so...it was either that or leave the bright setting off the list. The Neutral circuit will remain the cleanest pathway from what I understood. Who knows how he'll manage it.

 Curra and I couldn't see a good enough reason for not including the bright setting. It's the best way to go we thought. We had/have discussed this off an on for quite a while.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No... I meant that the mark on the connector where he puts a "half moon" mark to indicate the correct polarity of the HDAM... there was none on my Moon. If this was just a single error... no problem. But.. I was wondering if the other ones were marked or missed... hmmm..._

 

I understand that...the sharpie works pretty good there as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Probably a mistake. All mine have come with those little marks. Must have been missed during the rush to get them out before Chinese New Year Holiday.

 Peete.


----------



## greenarrow

I've just purchased a Compass for my K702. How to connect my X-Fi GamerExtreme to the compass as a source? Or, a better choice is connection using USB?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would never consider handicapping the Compass by replacing the HDAM with an opamp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 We could also put the full instructions for swapping the HDAM in the pdf manual. Under the cover couljd be an abreviated version showing the proper alignment._

 

I was planning to make it brief yet somehow it still winds up looking long.  


  Quote:


 One note I *do* have is that Kingwa never marked my original Moon HDAM as far as orientation goes... no mark to indicate the notch position... I noticed it when swapping in the Earth and so I marked it myself... but I am wondering if it was just MY Moon HDAM that was unmarked... or were they all left unmarked?
 If so, we should let Kingwa know of this oversight. 
 

They didn't mark my OPA either. I asked him about it and he said it was an error and that they would be sure to mark OPAs on all future builds. I marked mine with a sharpie.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wondered how he would work that out as well...but he said it could be done so...it was either that or leave the bright setting off the list. The Neutral circuit will remain the cleanest pathway from what I understood. Who knows how he'll manage it.

 Curra and I couldn't see a good enough reason for not including the bright setting. It's the best way to go we thought. We had/have discussed this off an on for quite a while.

 Peete._

 

Although I have a thing for a simple and pure signal path... I do think whatever he needs to do to make it "tweakable" for customers is to everyone's advantage. I have lurked on this site for many years and you always read about "synergy". By allowing subtle tone adjustments, it will allow people to have "synergy" with a greater number of headphones/tastes.
 I have spent the last 15 days listening to my Compass and K701 with the soft 3 setting. I figure I now have over 600 hours of total burn-in time with all the jumpers installed ( as instructed by Kingwa's burn-in recommendation).
 I feel the soft 3 setting is a bit too much... but I have to say, it always has remained musical and fun to listen to... just lacking a bit of detail, air, and sparkle. It could be that by shifting the entire spectrum of tone settings to the bright side, the other soft settings will become more useful also. After all, if a K701 is a little too dull with the soft 3 setting, it is likely most headphones will be unacceptable with that setting.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was planning to make it brief yet somehow it still winds up looking long.  


 They didn't mark my OPA either. I asked him about it and he said it was an error and that they would be sure to mark OPAs on all future builds. I marked mine with a sharpie._

 

Ok... cool...
 So.. WOW... uh.. I think that would be better in the manual with an abbreviated version "under the hood"... but I want to go back and stare at it for a while before making any real opinions...
 BUT I need to know... are the tone jumper instruction from Kingwa himself... I was just discussing this with Peete... and this would answer that question.

 As always, great job!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Agreed Joe...to be able to tweak the voicing slightly it's all good. 

 OTOH if that flexibility means compromising the Neutral/base SQ then it's not worth it. I don't think this is the case with the way Kingwa set this up. The modes are parallel when in the circuit and completely out of the circuit when off. At least that is how it looks. Of course I could be wrong about that.

 Another problem with some gear is having too much choice, believe it not. It's a fine line.

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok... cool...
 So.. WOW... uh.. I think that would be better in the manual with an abbreviated version "under the hood"... but I want to go back and stare at it for a while before making any real opinions...
 BUT I need to know... are the tone jumper instruction from Kingwa himself... I was just discussing this with Peete... and this would answer that question.

 As always, great job!_

 

I need to verify that those settings are correct. I think you might be right that if the Compass has a manual that describes this thoroughly the lid doesn't need to say as much.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Nice work csroc....., you know there has to be a but...

 Rather than silk screen that on the underside...why not just print the darn thing out and laminate it ? That way the few times you pop the lid off (a month or more) you can set that aside and look at the paper instead....that and the price is right for the paper copy. I mean it's a good second option if this doesn't make the cut.

 Peete.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed Joe...to be able to tweak the voicing slightly it's all good. 

 OTOH if that flexibility means compromising the Neutral/base SQ then it's not worth it. I don't think this is the case with the way Kingwa set this up. The modes are parallel when in the circuit and completely out of the circuit when off. At least that is how it looks. Of course I could be wrong about that.

 Another problem with some gear is having too much choice, believe it not. It's a fine line.

 Peete._

 

ABSOLUTELY agree... sometimes too much is... too much!


----------



## Joeoboe

Ok... Here is another take on the inside cover... I used your art to do this quickly csroc! Basically, I was thinking of the inside cover as a reference so you didn't have to look up the settings, but not as an instruction manual on all the settings. See if this makes any sense to you.


----------



## edselfordfong

csroc, ok, I'll out myself as the comic sans hater. I'm not the only one, BTW, check out ban comic sans :: Putting the Sans in Comic Sans

 I'm truly sorry to raise the issue of design once again. I hope this doesn't spark excessive debate over the design of your label, which otherwise looks informative.

 However, I feel strongly that comic sans should never come near a product like this. Nothing says "junk" to me like that font.

 OK, trying to keep my pulse steady. Anyone got my back?


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_csroc, ok, I'll out myself as the comic sans hater. I'm not the only one, BTW, check out ban comic sans :: Putting the Sans in Comic Sans

 I'm truly sorry to raise the issue of design once again. I hope this doesn't spark excessive debate over the design of your label, which otherwise looks informative.

 However, I feel strongly that comic sans should never come near a product like this. Nothing says "junk" to me like that font.

 OK, trying to keep my pulse steady. Anyone got my back?_

 

No no.. you are not being nasty.. you don't like that font and you have a reasoned answer. Great ! That is a valid input.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No no.. you are not being nasty.. you don't like that font and you have a reasoned answer. Great ! That is a valid input._

 

thanks, Joe. 

 here's what that web site says about CS. They make the argument a lot better than me:
  Quote:


 Like the tone of a spoken voice, the characteristics of a typeface convey meaning. The design of the typeface is, in itself, its voice. Often this voice speaks louder than the text itself. Thus when designing a "Do Not Enter" sign the use of a heavy-stroked, attention-commanding font such as Impact or Arial Black is appropriate. Typesetting such a message in Comic Sans would be ludicrous. Though this is sort of misuse is frequent, it is unjustified. Clearly, Comic Sans as a voice conveys silliness, childish naivete, irreverence, and is far too casual for such a purpose. It is analogous to showing up for a black tie event in a clown costume. 
 

I'll shut up now about it. Thanks for the all the hard work, csroc, btw. 

 Also, can't wait for the rest of PP's review. Trying to get my dad to get one of these, too.


----------



## csroc

edsel, I don't much care for Comic Sans either but it seems to be a standard Audio-gd font. Someone suggested Calibri and another couple suggestions came in for Helvetica (or a variant of it). I don't actually have Helvetica but Calibri might be an option as it looks nice and isn't vastly different in shape than Comic Sans but it lacks "silliness." I definitely want to stay sans-serif personally.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice work csroc....., you know there has to be a but...

 Rather than silk screen that on the underside...why not just print the darn thing out and laminate it ? That way the few times you pop the lid off (a month or more) you can set that aside and look at the paper instead....that and the price is right for the paper copy. I mean it's a good second option if this doesn't make the cut.

 Peete._

 

Kingwa seems to like the silkscreening idea (so kudos to whoever came up with it) since you're not likely to ever lose the lid to your Compass and of course it's always with your Compass. If he weren't keen on doing that I wouldn't have bothered mocking it up on the panel at all.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok... Here is another take on the inside cover... I used your art to do this quickly csroc! Basically, I was thinking of the inside cover as a reference so you didn't have to look up the settings, but not as an instruction manual on all the settings. See if this makes any sense to you._

 

I like your idea very much actually. I really know nothing about what kind of a manual the Compass will come with but I think your approach (I'll make a few minor adjustments) would be perfectly good... maybe even better for the most part than my wordy approach. 

 Kingwa emailed me a bit ago, I'm going to share some options with him and discuss these things.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think Kingwa could make a killing selling different face plates... Who knew people cared THIS much? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

The "personalization" trend in CE has been going on for a few years now. It's all about self expression and personal identity. Trying to reach consensus (first on fonts, then symbols) is always going to be challenge with the diverse / scattered group we have here on frequency of reading threads, different time zones, etc. I did mention to Kingwa this was an opportunity worth exploring to sell customized face plates with various color options such as the pico...http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f38/he...thread-258967/. So if you're interested, speak up and Kingwa can figure out if it's worth pursuing.

 On the theme of personalization, beyerdynamic offers their custom MANUFAKTUR service (Manufaktur) for those that want to pimp out their cans. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You can check out some of the Head-fi'er designs: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/bey...acture-217995/.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Denon D5000s are lower impedance than Grados from memory and they drive fine. Kingwa now has Grado SR-80s and AKG K701s for testing. I don't know how 600 Ohm cans would perform, but I don't see it as a problem. I'd be more worried why people are buying 600 Ohm headphones.

 My friend here now has Grado HF-1s, so I'll finally get a chance to get a good listen with a pair of Grados, which I haven't ever before._

 

The beyers in 600 ohms are highly regarded to smooth out the treble. You can only get them through MANUFAKTUR.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No_One411* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, I've been following this thread since the very beginning, and regret only making a post now. I definitely think, judging from the reviews its been getting, that its going to be the "go-to" DAC/amp under $500. 

 However, there is one small question that I have that I don't think has been really addressed. I know that its designed to drive both Low impedance and High impedance headphones equally well. But how about on the extreme end? Has anyone tested how they perform with Grados and perhaps a 600 ohm AKG or Beyer Manufaktur? My main concern is its ability to drive phones with 600ish ohms and low sensitivity. Other than that, I definitely believe that this product will close my wallet for quite some time._

 

I don't believe any of the first-18 testers have the beyer in 600 ohms. The Compass should have enough juice to drive them. Skylab is the beyer guru and he should do a Compass review for the beyer audience. Here are a couple links that are worth checking out:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/bey...ml#post2689174

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/bey...ersion-251276/


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edsel, I don't much care for Comic Sans either but it seems to be a standard Audio-gd font._

 

Is it really? I haven't looked too closely at their other stuff to notice. Since you've been communicating to him about design, please indicate to him that comic sans isn't appropriate for Audio gd. To be used in this context is is really contrary to basic design principles.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Kingwa seems to like the silkscreening idea (so kudos to whoever came up with it) since you're not likely to ever lose the lid to your Compass and of course it's always with your Compass. If he weren't keen on doing that I wouldn't have bothered mocking it up on the panel at all.


 I like your idea very much actually. I really know nothing about what kind of a manual the Compass will come with but I think your approach (I'll make a few minor adjustments) would be perfectly good... maybe even better for the most part than my wordy approach. 

 Kingwa emailed me a bit ago, I'm going to share some options with him and discuss these things._

 

The silkscreening was my idea!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It was number 5 recommendation in my review of the Compass. I guess I can now feel I contributed!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I know my idea that I posted was not balanced on the cover very well and I am sure the placement and spacing can be arranged better... but I DO like my idea of the representations of the jumper settings. I had a hard time looking at Kingwa's original instructions and figuring out which jumpers did what!


----------



## mbd2884

Equipment Laptop (Asus), Foobar2K (Asio4All) (No resample), Stock USB (Found after-market cable, no difference), Compass (13 dB/Neutral/Earth HDAM, 300 + hours for all), Audio-gd Power Cable, Audio Technica AD900 w/Furutech FP-704.

 Source: Mp3, 192 VBR, 256, 320 and FLAC.

 Thought about listening to Filter/Nine Inch Nails, well lost interest in Nine Inch Nails.

 Filter, album today was Amalgamut. The opening song You Walk Away throttles and jerks your attention immediately. Filter having so much influence from Electronica, ironically, Trent Reznor from Nine Inch Nails, the bass line is very prominent throughout the album. The guitars are more mid/high, not the mid/low of a lot of rock bands in their genre. Voice is nothing special, the drums again sound great. The bass drum slam is not as noticable as say with Godsmack, but then few bands have as much oomph awesomeness as Godsmack. But the Guitar Riffs starting at 3:20 definitely gets your head banging. The low chords come out swinging and transitions to full blown melodic riffs, with some good old electronic programming. Mmmm, Compass does this justice. Music is crystal clear, there is no muddiness, separation is excellent except for the bass drums. The bass guitar is very distinct, has the high pitch pluck sound that I love so much from a metal bass player. Rest of the album continues with this head banging goodness. Next song I would recommend for some awesome bass line is Columind. Great rock vocals right from the start also, scream into that mic!

 Now instead of Nine Inch Nails, thought, Alice in Chains, now that I haven't listened to in a while. Listening now.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I strongly recommend to get rid of the soft modes. Neutral is the way to go and it could get the price down and I would put in better parts in it instead._

 

Better parts for a Mid-Fi $400-$500 DAC/Amp? Have you even bothered to read and look what parts the Compass has?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just purchased a Compass for my K702. How to connect my X-Fi GamerExtreme to the compass as a source? Or, a better choice is connection using USB?_

 

Use USB. Forget the X-Fi. Even if you use the Coaxial or Optical out of the X-Fi, means the music was processed by the X-Fi. and that completely defeats the point of having an external DAC. Go USB.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it really? I haven't looked too closely at their other stuff to notice. Since you've been communicating to him about design, please indicate to him that comic sans isn't appropriate for Audio gd. To be used in this context is is really contrary to basic design principles._

 

For labeling of inputs and whatnot on the rear of Audio-gd gear I believe they have used Comic Sans. I doubt Comic Sans carries the same connotations in China that it does in many Western societies.

 Peete, I presented Kingwa with the three designs as you had suggested and even all his office people cannot agree! I believe that the best choice is the compromise myself, it keeps parts of what the winning design had while still looking more "Audio-gd" to me.

 Kingwa told me this product has been built specifically with overseas customers in mind, so I believe that he may be very receptive to the font change however I did ask him since obviously it would be slightly different from his other products (although I do find Comic Sans and Calibri share similar shapes the details are very different which is why Calibri looks clean and not goofy).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The silkscreening was my idea!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It was number 5 recommendation in my review of the Compass. I guess I can now feel I contributed!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I know my idea that I posted was not balanced on the cover very well and I am sure the placement and spacing can be arranged better... but I DO like my idea of the representations of the jumper settings. I had a hard time looking at Kingwa's original instructions and figuring out which jumpers did what!_

 

Ah ha! I thought it might have been you.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thought about listening to Filter/Nine Inch Nails, well lost interest in Nine Inch Nails.

 Filter, album today was Amalgamut. The opening song You Walk Away throttles and jerks your attention immediately. Filter having so much influence from Electronica, ironically, Trent Reznor from Nine Inch Nails, the bass line is very prominent throughout the album. The guitars are more mid/high, not the mid/low of a lot of rock bands in their genre. Voice is nothing special, the drums again sound great. The bass drum slam is not as noticable as say with Godsmack, but then few bands have as much oomph awesomeness as Godsmack. But the Guitar Riffs starting at 3:20 definitely gets your head banging. The low chords come out swinging and transitions to full blown melodic riffs, with some good old electronic programming. Mmmm, Compass does this justice. Music is crystal clear, there is no muddiness, separation is excellent except for the bass drums. The bass guitar is very distinct, has the high pitch pluck sound that I love so much from a metal bass player. Rest of the album continues with this head banging goodness. Next song I would recommend for some awesome bass line is Columind. Great rock vocals right from the start also, scream into that mic!

 Now instead of Nine Inch Nails, thought, Alice in Chains, now that I haven't listened to in a while. Listening now.
_

 

Thanks for contributing what this thread severely lacks of late, some more SQ evaluations. It's very interesting that some of the industrial stuff sounds this good....gives me an idea. Ministry - A Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste and maybe a little retro fuzz nasty with The Jesus and Mary Chain - Psychocandy.

 Just spun Simple Minds - New Gold Dream - t'was a little thin but that's the early CD transfer. The LP version of the same is the opposite, dynamic, powerful, shimmering guitar washes, thundering drums...very nice.

 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

I still believe the 18 Test Compass have a far easier to understand, intuitive and overall better look that all those annoying symbols. Those symbols make me scratch my head and say, what the hell is this? If I want to look at symbols, I can just open up my calculus book...

 Lets see some second batch Compass! This discussion about front panel is getting really old. I want to hear the impressions of other users about the SOUND, the MUSIC.

 For goodness sake, want more exclamations from Compass users about the SOUND and MUSIC. And will fall off laughing in my chair when they realize, Front Panel means nothing when they are listening to the MUSIC, enjoying the SOUND. I mean c'mon this is the dumbest discussion in all of Head-Fi's Amp forum. Yeah how many paragraphs does Skylab ever dedicate to his Amp reviews for the front panel. Oh right, ZERO, few sentences. Description and pictures of the interior in more detail, because oh right, the interior and design is what is important. Then moves onto the SQ and sound, oh right because the Amp is for Sound and Music. Not to decorate your table...





 - Because this gif is hilarious, everytime. Currawong thanks!


----------



## shootermcgaven2

newbie buyer here. should i get this DAC or the (upgraded)Zero DAC. Im going to use it on my computer to play music and games. I have sennheiser hd555. and hd650 (comming soon) . my computer is a New coustom built machine for games. ATI vid card. latest asus mother board w/ no sound card. i am looking at these 2 products because i hear they are great bang for the buck ... and will be using them as amp/preamp/dac .


----------



## punk_guy182

mbd2884;5441382 said:
			
		

> Better parts for a Mid-Fi $400-$500 DAC/Amp? Have you even bothered to read and look what parts the Compass has?
> QUOTE]
> 
> Nope but I will once I'm done with my midterms. However, you can still biefly educate me on the compass. I'd like that.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edsel, I don't much care for Comic Sans either but it seems to be a standard Audio-gd font._

 

Are you sure the Audio-gd font is Comic Sans? The reason I ask is that it while looks similar to me, it does not look quite the same. For example, the Comic Sans lowercase "a" is very different from the lowercase "a" on the Compass front/rear panels. Similarly, the lowercase "s" is very different. Overall I like the Audio-gd font much better than Comic Sans.


----------



## mbd2884

Equipment Laptop (Asus), Foobar2K (Asio4All) (No resample), Stock USB (Found after-market cable, no difference), Compass (13 dB/Neutral/Earth HDAM, 300 + hours for all), Audio-gd Power Cable, Audio Technica AD900 w/Furutech FP-704.

 Source: Mp3, 192 VBR, 256, 320 and FLAC.

 Writing Alice in Chains as I listen. When I think of 90s rock, Alice in Chains with the whole Seattle Grunge phenomenon, well they were the epitome in my mind. No other band had such a distinct sound, their frontman Layne Staley has in my personal opinion the best grunge band vocals, no other frontman has come close since his departure. And Jerry Cantrell is amazing, his play definitely rank as some of the best guitar solos. One of the few guitarist able to go solo after the ending of his band and be better than the current rock/grunge bands. And personally, I can't think of anyone else who can the play G&L RAMPAGE like Cantrell, its orgasmic. Cantrell used the G&L RAMPAGE with Layne Staley but later in his career became known for his mastery over the Gibson Les Paul, listen to some of his solo material. G&L for those don't know was started by the founder of Fender, Leo Fender after he sold Fender. 

 Before continuing, for those who don't know who Alice in Chains are, yeah reunited, but they died after Layne Staley passed away, his voice can't be replaced, sniffle. Favorite album, jeez that's tough to say, favorite for today is Dirt. So you say, you are so full of it about Jerry Cantrell, fast track to 1:55 on Dam that River. That 25 seconds of guitar solo, yeah, that's what the G&L RAMPAGE sounds like in Cantrell's hands. So smooth, yet so gritty with grunge, his fingers just so effortlessly across the frets, there is no grating sound as with many guitarists when they slide their hand along the neck of the guitar. Its just plain smooth. The Compass lets you hear the distinct whine of the G&L. But you can't discount the rest of the band, their drummer like a "good" drummer does, sets the framework for the music. And he does it well, noticeably skilled, but never the focal point of the music. During transitions, Compass lets you hear the change of pace on the Cymbals and Snare drum well. Everything with Alice in Chains is in your face, and Compass brings the music to your face, definitely not behind, or distant, Layne is crooning in your face. Want to hear how distinct Layne's voice can be, listen to Godsmack. Yeah yeah, bet you didn't see that coming. Yep, Alice in Chains - Dirt - Godsmack, that's how awesome this band is. But Cantrell definitely is center stage on this song, aside from the reverberations in Layne's voice, which he personally does, this is not post recording production work, errie.

 Let's backtrack, opening song Them Bones, Layne just screams a few times, ahhh! Compass you can hear his voice reverberate, post recording, or more of a slight echo. Ever so slight to give it volume. This is a short 2:32 song that is just a blast from start to finish. Cantrell steps in at 1:15 and I mean steps in. Everything is just background noise at this point. Layne is a solid rhythm guitarist. He tangos with Cantrell for short bit, Compass reproduces Cantrell's whine with complete separation from Layne's short burst of quick notes, that have no sonic edge at all. When Mike Starr sings in perfect unison, backup, with Layne you can always hear the two voices distinctly, no mistaking the two voices, always two presences. 

 I'd say if Alice in Chains sounds this great on the Compass, this is an excellent DAC/Amp choice for anyone who loves heavy rock/grunge/metal. You won't be disappointed. The edgy guitar whine is concert quality, the bass drum slam, you can visualize the drum kick exactly when it hits the drum surface, and Layne's voice, his high pitched, in minor key voice, as many described as haunting, is heard but along with his low, gutteral voice, often at the same time. If you were in a dark surrounding, only able to see dark shadows faintly, and Layne's voice was in your ears, I think a puddle would form at your feet. The bass guitar I'd say is the most blase aspect of the band's sound. But if you want to just close your eyes, you will hear it, as you listen more, can hear it more distinctly. Compass never loses the bass, its always there, but not in your face, as it would be if it were a lower quality amp. Bass guitar has a lower sound, closer to the frequencies where its you gotta feel in the chest to hear, but no worries, as I said, Compass brings it to you with relative ease.

 If you'd like to hear some more Alice in Chains Awesomeness, look no further than Facelift - Man in the Box. JeeEEeesSuUUuS ChriIIiISssT, Layne, that's what Layne's voice is all about. While the guitar play from both Cantrell and Layne is excellent through the song, it's at 3:15 when their play "dance" with each other. At 3:45 Cantrell does something I can't explain, but its one of the coolest sounds from a guitar. I won't eve try to describe it, but its really really cool, and have to say, I never noticed it until I listened on the Compass. Cantrell's guitar play as I said before, generally is very smooth. But on Sea of Sorrow, at 3:55 you can hear that he has mastered syncopation also, just because he doesn't do it often, don't let that fool you. Not as good as Vince Giraldi, but that's unfair as no other instrument comes close to the Piano in that aspect, as far as guitars go, Cantrell and Compass about as good as it gets in a fast paced rock ballad.

 Its an excellent heavy rock/grunge/metal DAC/Amp. I'd imagine, this is what Solid State amp is all about when listening to fast, energetic, jump around crazy, rock, head banging with imaginary flowing long hair, entangled from the furious movements. When listening to rock on the Compass I wish I played the Guitar. But when I listen to George Winston, I remember again why I chose to play the piano instead.

 What I love most about the Compass and Rock. Well Rock my opinion should be played LOUD, give the music some authority, let the singer come up front to your face. No matter how loud, how far I crank the Volume up, the music's detail, and quality never deteriorates. The bass never decays, never becomes muddy. The treble never becomes sparkly, or unbearable. The Mids never become overwhelmed by the increased volume of the bass, the music remains in balance. This is definitely the biggest difference in my music listening experience so far from other Amps, Soundcards I've listened to in the past, and why I am so addicted to the music right now.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you sure the Audio-gd font is Comic Sans? The reason I ask is that it while looks similar to me, it does not look quite the same. For example, the Comic Sans lowercase "a" is very different from the lowercase "a" on the Compass front/rear panels. Similarly, the lowercase "s" is very different. Overall I like the Audio-gd font much better than Comic Sans._

 

At first I thought the same thing, I am still a little befuddled.

 edit: I checked again and it does appear to be Comic Sans in the design files he sent me. I'm losing my mind here. My Comic Sans MS on my laptop matches it and an online font detector identifies it as Comic Sans as well. The font on the Compass itself is... no clue!


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shootermcgaven2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_newbie buyer here. should i get this DAC or the (upgraded)Zero DAC. Im going to use it on my computer to play music and games. I have sennheiser hd555. and hd650 (comming soon) . my computer is a New coustom built machine for games. ATI vid card. latest asus mother board w/ no sound card. i am looking at these 2 products because i hear they are great bang for the buck ... and will be using them as amp/preamp/dac ._

 

If you can afford to go with the Compass, it is an absolute steal while at the introductory price. In the future it is likely to be much more expensive. It really is in a different league than the Zero. But.. the Zero is good for the money however!

 I just sold my upgraded Zero... I am loving the Compass!


----------



## ScottieB

mbd thanks for the review! - but as an Alice fan you're KILLING me! It's Layne STALEY - not Stanley. No 'N'! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love their unplugged album - best of the MTV unplugged shows IMO.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mbd thanks for the review! - but as an Alice fan you're KILLING me! It's Layne STALEY - not Stanley. No 'N'! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love their unplugged album - best of the MTV unplugged shows IMO._

 

Woops, sorry, fixed.


----------



## shootermcgaven2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you can afford to go with the Compass, it is an absolute steal while at the introductory price. In the future it is likely to be much more expensive. It really is in a different league than the Zero. But.. the Zero is good for the money however!

 I just sold my upgraded Zero... I am loving the Compass!_

 

how is it better. will i notice a diffrence in the sound? is it less likley to break?

 i can afford the compass but im not an expert so i dont know if i will be able to tweak it . i jsut want something to pulg in out of the box and use


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Know the AIC albums inside and out......better band than 90% the dreck that passes for alternative these days....I blame it all on the Jonas Brothers ....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.

 PS : Sugar Cubes - Lifes Too Good......WOW


----------



## senn_liu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's an excellent heavy rock/grunge/metal DAC/Amp. I'd imagine, this is what Solid State amp is all about when listening to fast, energetic, jump around crazy, rock is head banging with imaginary flowing long hair, entangled from the furious movements. When listening to rock on the Compass I wish I played the Guitar. But when I listen to George Winston, I remember again why I chose to play the piano instead._

 

That's why i play both! MUAHAHA....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait to see/hear what the Compass v2a is like. Hopefully won't take too much longer to be done.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At first I thought the same thing, I am still a little befuddled.

 edit: I checked again and it does appear to be Comic Sans in the design files he sent me. I'm losing my mind here. My Comic Sans MS on my laptop matches it and an online font detector identifies it as Comic Sans as well. The font on the Compass itself is... no clue!_

 

Interesting. I wonder if maybe the panel manufacturer substituted its own in-house font for the one in the design files...


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I doubt Comic Sans carries the same connotations in China that it does in many Western societies._

 

Well, then he'll be happy to know what connotations it has here. 

 Just looked at the back of the compass on the Audio gd site. That's definitely not Comic Sans, but if what was in the file was what you used on the designs you showed, I think that was comic sans. I had noticed it there, but didn't think much of it because the font on the actual unit was different. Thought it was just a placeholder.

 Anyway, I really think that you should mention to him that comic sans is a crime. He should never use it again.

 Still, it would be interesting to see what a real font would do in a poll against the icons...


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shootermcgaven2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how is it better. will i notice a diffrence in the sound? is it less likley to break?

 i can afford the compass but im not an expert so i dont know if i will be able to tweak it . i jsut want something to pulg in out of the box and use_

 

I don't have the Zero, but I can say, you have to take a hammer to the Compass to break it. The thick, aluminum enclosure has a great tactile feel to it. Go ahead, lean on the palms of your hand on top, it won't budge. Don't flip the Compass, but if you look under, you can see that the PCB are screwed firmly to the base of the enclosure. Open it up, as I said before many times, its a work of art. The soldering job on this is top notch, you can't ask for a better job. Peete identified it as being gold plated PCB straight through, pretty sweet. Kingwa did not use connectors, everything is soldered. He used silver plated wiring, awesome again. Silver, lead free solder, awesome again. There is nothing fragile about this beast, except for the HDAM. The HDAM sits in the socket, its not soldered to allow you to change it with the other available HDAM.

 But what I believe Oboe meant, was the SOUND. If I read his impressions correctly, he meant the Zero's sound cannot keep up or be compared to the Compass. Compass is sonically a tier above the Zero.


----------



## Toe Tag

OK, my comments that seemed confusing were in response to a post a couple hundred back about people unfairly dominating the discussion. I guess this got lost in the many simultaneous comments about the panels that have been flooding this thread for the last 500 posts. I don't really need to beat that horse, agree that we should focus on features. So...

 In emailing the company about buying extra OPA they said "Compass can choise EARTH or SUN default. Extra OPA price is RMB136/per." This wording seems to me to imply that at this moment in prototyping, the default is moon, and you need to specify if you prefer earth. Thus it seems most here would like to tell the man: just make Earth the default. 

 I would be surprised if earth/sun/moon are manufactured without a little half moon indentation in the plastic, it is standard part of IC packaging, so you can install it the right direction. Possible the ink printed on top rubbed off? but the half moon indentation should be part of the plastic package. Or some indication of "pin 1". 

 I hate to say this, but now that the 2 extra RCA on the back for preamp output will become standard... 1. this implies they need a new back plate with the 2 new holes anyway and 2. this is the time for new printing on the back plate and in fact I find the existing printing around the RCA jacks confusing.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toe Tag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would be surprised if earth/sun/moon are manufactured without a little half moon indentation in the plastic, it is standard part of IC packaging, so you can install it the right direction. Possible the ink printed on top rubbed off? but the half moon indentation should be part of the plastic package. Or some indication of "pin 1". 

 I hate to say this, but now that the 2 extra RCA on the back for preamp output are standard... 1. this implies they need a new back plate with the 2 new holes and 2. this is the time for new printing on the back plate and in fact I find the existing printing around the RCA jacks confusing._

 

After payment, you have to write an email to confirm your shipping address and your phone number for DHL. How hard is it in that SAME email to say, please install the Earth/Sun/Moon as my default HDAM? 

 Why would you try to rub off the marking on the bottom of the HDAM. You would have try very hard to do so, considering the connectors don't give you much space to rub. And seriously, that's what you are complaining about? I'll be rude, get a life.

 He already has back panels made for the switch for the Pre-Amp and for the RCA outputs. It says clearly above the RCA jacks, DAC OUT, LINE IN, PREAMP OUT, and clearly states which is left and right. If you find the RCA jacks confusing, please don't attend any college level classes, you will suffer unbearable migraines and your head may implode.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Know the AIC albums inside and out......better band than 90% the dreck that passes for alternative these days....I blame it all on the Jonas Brothers ....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Yeah, Alice In Chains is a great band....Dirt and Unplugged(cd and dvd) are my favs. LOL, the Anus Brothers are everything that's wrong with pop music. For the good of humanity I'm hoping their 15 minutes will be over soon....


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, then he'll be happy to know what connotations it has here. 

 Just looked at the back of the compass on the Audio gd site. That's definitely not Comic Sans, but if what was in the file was what you used on the designs you showed, I think that was comic sans. I had noticed it there, but didn't think much of it because the font on the actual unit was different. Thought it was just a placeholder.

 Anyway, I really think that you should mention to him that comic sans is a crime. He should never use it again.

 Still, it would be interesting to see what a real font would do in a poll against the icons...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well I'm not planning to make a poll. I'm not using Comic Sans either. Yes the design file he sent me uses that and that's what he told me it was (and as per the design file he's right) but that's not what's on _my_ Compass that's just a few feet away from me! Confused me for sure. I even tried a few things to identify the font and they all failed, including a web based image recognition tool which properly identified Comic Sans but can not pull up a match for what is actually on the real Compass.

 I am truly perplexed, the design file also contained the C2-C and that also had Comic Sans. I really haven't a clue how that changed between there and the actual silkscreening but if he's always been using Comic Sans, he's never gotten that on his products it looks like. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think it will be Calibri. It's inoffensive.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toe Tag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would be surprised if earth/sun/moon are manufactured without a little half moon indentation in the plastic, it is standard part of IC packaging, so you can install it the right direction._

 

The earth/moon/sun are not ICs, they are all discrete and made by Audio-gd. So, I do not think there is any premade packaging, per se. If you browse audio-gd's website for the OPA you will see what I mean.


----------



## Toe Tag

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After payment, you have to write an email to confirm your shipping address and your phone number for DHL. How hard is it in that SAME email to say, please install the Earth/Sun/Moon as my default HDAM? 

 Why would you try to rub off the marking on the bottom of the HDAM. You would have try very hard to do so, considering the connectors don't give you much space to rub. And seriously, that's what you are complaining about? I'll be rude, get a life.

 He already has back panels made for the switch for the Pre-Amp and for the RCA outputs. It says clearly above the RCA jacks, DAC OUT, LINE IN, PREAMP OUT, and clearly states which is left and right. If you find the RCA jacks confusing, please don't attend any college level classes, you will suffer unbearable migraines and your head may implode._

 

1. OK sounds like you like Moon as the default HDAM. I'll let the other posters smack you down for that.
 2. I was trying to help the guy who said one his OPA's was unmarked. 
 3. Its unfortunate you seem to misunderstand most of what I said. I have a lot of things I could add, along the lines of "go forth and multiply" but in different words. But w/r/t the recent posts about trying to focus and not argue, I will confine myself to asking: How old are you? So why don't we all have a laugh about that and you apologize to me.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toe Tag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would be surprised if earth/sun/moon are manufactured without a little half moon indentation in the plastic, it is standard part of IC packaging, so you can install it the right direction. Possible the ink printed on top rubbed off? but the half moon indentation should be part of the plastic package. Or some indication of "pin 1"._

 

I asked Kingwa about that at least a week or so ago with regard to my own OPA Moon and he said it was a mistake and that the mark was forgotten... not that it had rubbed off (I don't see how it could have rubbed off when mounted anyway).

  Quote:


 I hate to say this, but now that the 2 extra RCA on the back for preamp output will become standard... 1. this implies they need a new back plate with the 2 new holes anyway and 2. this is the time for new printing on the back plate and in fact I find the existing printing around the RCA jacks confusing. 
 

The back panel will be a completely reworked design when V2b as many are calling it comes out.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The back panel will be a completely reworked design when V2b as many are calling it comes out._

 

every time I see the back panel, I cant help say WOW, I hope once the plates are finalized by Kingwa and csroc, maybe curra can put that up on the 1st page itself, like he has done with the reviews, so that folks can see the V2b or the upgraded version (whatever one calls it) without having to browse through this entire thread.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

mbd...try some Curve -Cuckoo (if you have it). This band's dense guitar tracks really sort the bad the from the good amps rather quickly I find. Although not the best recording the Compass makes short work of sorting out the heavy layers and give each one it's proper and unique edge...The thundering kick drum and bass line from Men are From Mars Woman are from Venus almost rattles your head with it's power yet manages to stay lightning quick and never bloated. That track is punishing on speakers with poor bass response and poorly constructed cabinets.

 Toni Halliday's voice comes in like a delicate angel's whisper amongst the chaos going on around her in the track. It's an odd mix but works oh so well for this group.Totally cool and rendered perfectly by the Compass amp.

 The sound stage and panning on this album is top shelf stuff. The chorus seems to swim around inside you head in a slow r to left spiral almost....I'm loving this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Sugar Cubes debut album has great production values for a budget debut. The remix bonus tracks are the real gems on this CD. Excellent recording for the genre completely revealed in all it's stark but compelling quirky glory. Bjork lays off the weirdness a little and manages to sing with surprising skill. I always thought they were never given their due but the guitar player in the band was an utter nutter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On Deck : AIC - 3 Legged dog on the cover
 Monster Magnet : God Says No


 Back to the regularly scheduled program....

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back to the regularly scheduled program....
 Peete._

 

Does that include the second part of your review??.. sorry if i sound like....


----------



## Toe Tag

Thanks for straightening me out on that guys. The only question I have left is: did the 18 testers vote on Sun/Moon/Earth as the best default? After all the work that has gone into making this such a kick-ass DAC/headphone amp (and pre-amp) it would be stupid to make the default OPA anything less than what the testers prefer. From the last few pages it seemed like Earth was best. But obviously only people who have heard all 3 should vote.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_every time I see the back panel, I cant help say WOW, I hope once the plates are finalized by Kingwa and csroc, maybe curra can put that up on the 1st page itself, like he has done with the reviews, so that folks can see the V2b or the upgraded version (whatever one calls it) without having to browse through this entire thread._

 

Thanks sandchak. I feel that came out better than I could have hoped. 

 After some back-and-forth with Kingwa this is the final look.






 You'll notice the more obscure symbols are back to text. The symbols that remain I shrank a bit (2mm smaller in their largest dimension).

 Also here is the label for under the lid which I modified based on Joeoboes feedback (I went way overboard on the original one!)


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toe Tag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for straightening me out on that guys. The only question I have left is: did the 18 testers vote on Sun/Moon/Earth as the best default? After all the work that has gone into making this such a kick-ass DAC/headphone amp (and pre-amp) it would be stupid to make the default OPA anything less than what the testers prefer. From the last few pages it seemed like Earth was best. But obviously only people who have heard all 3 should vote._

 

No, it was Kingwa who decided that.. we haven't had any vote on that because its subjective and depends on personal tastes..


----------



## csommers

CSROC: Glad to see the final design 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm happy Kingwa went without lots of symbols, I like it!


----------



## cynan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just purchased a Compass for my K702. How to connect my X-Fi GamerExtreme to the compass as a source? Or, a better choice is connection using USB?_

 

I believe the X-FI outputs SP/DIF on one of the rear ports. You need a 1/8th to coaxial adapter. You can get one from creative, or a much cheaper one from somewhere like monoprice.com. I think this one would work.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mbd...try some Curve -Cuckoo (if you have it). This band's dense guitar tracks really sort the bad the from the good amps rather quickly I find. Although not the best recording the Compass makes short work of sorting out the heavy layers and give each one it's proper and unique edge...The thundering kick drum and bass line from Men are From Mars Woman are from Venus almost rattles your head with it's power yet manages to stay lightning quick and never bloated. That track is punishing on speakers with poor bass response and poorly constructed cabinets.

 Toni Halliday's voice comes in like a delicate angel's whisper amongst the chaos going on around her in the track. It's an odd mix but works oh so well for this group.Totally cool and rendered perfectly by the Compass amp.

 The sound stage and panning on this album is top shelf stuff. The chorus seems to swim around inside you head in a slow r to left spiral almost....I'm loving this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Sugar Cubes debut album has great production values for a budget debut. The remix bonus tracks are the real gems on this CD. Excellent recording for the genre completely revealed in all it's stark but compelling quirky glory. Bjork lays off the weirdness a little and manages to sing with surprising skill. I always thought they were never given their due but the guitar player in the band was an utter nutter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On Deck : AIC - 3 Legged dog on the cover
 Monster Magnet : God Says No


 Back to the regularly scheduled program....

 Peete._

 

Copied/pasted for this weekend to check out. I have Celldweller on mellow, low volume, cleaning up before sleeping.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks sandchak. I feel that came out better than I could have hoped. 

 After some back-and-forth with Kingwa this is the final look.

 which I modified based on Joeoboes feedback (I went way overboard on the original one!)_

 

Looks Great ! more than anything its his decision finally.. not surprised though.. if I recollect he once said, Honda may have the sporty looks, BMW has a powerful engine and Merc has the comforts, but the car that sells most is Toyota.. guess he prefers likes the middle path, Oh yes, Thanks joe for the work under the lid..

 I guess this lays things to rest.. and maybe Curra could put this up on the first page..

 thanks again..


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks sandchak. I feel that came out better than I could have hoped. 

 After some back-and-forth with Kingwa this is the final look.







 You'll notice the more obscure symbols are back to text. The symbols that remain I shrank a bit (2mm smaller in their largest dimension).

 Also here is the label for under the lid which I modified based on Joeoboes feedback (I went way overboard on the original one!)_

 

Nice! This was my second choice, and I love it! The interior looks awesome also.

 It looks like the basic circuit has been designed as bright, adding a filter network to bring it back to neutral. As long as this does not hurt the clarity of the neutral sound I am fine with that also.


----------



## scootermafia

I like the final design, it looks very clean. Me personally I enjoy the hieroglyphics, but I think overall people will like this finished version the best. And it is up to its daddy, Kingwa, at the end of the day.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I'm not planning to make a poll. I'm not using Comic Sans either. Yes the design file he sent me uses that and that's what he told me it was (and as per the design file he's right) but that's not what's on my Compass that's just a few feet away from me! Confused me for sure. I even tried a few things to identify the font and they all failed, including a web based image recognition tool which properly identified Comic Sans but can not pull up a match for what is actually on the real Compass.

 I am truly perplexed, the design file also contained the C2-C and that also had Comic Sans. I really haven't a clue how that changed between there and the actual silkscreening but if he's always been using Comic Sans, he's never gotten that on his products it looks like. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think it will be Calibri. It's inoffensive._

 

The amount of fonts out there is staggering...


 .


----------



## csroc

Thanks!

 And I too am very glad that the front/back project is done with. The decision making process was probably not what you're thinking but I discussed as much of everything as I could with Kingwa before anything was finalized. I now have to wait and hope it comes from the manufacturer looking the way it should!

 Any feedback on the under-lid silkscreening? I told Kingwa I would send it to him as soon as I got some feedback.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It looks like the basic circuit has been designed as bright, adding a filter network to bring it back to neutral. As long as this does not hurt the clarity of the neutral sound I am fine with that also._

 

I'm not sure if the jumper configuration actually means that the basic circuit is bright, but I haven't looked at the circuit diagram to figure it all out. I'm sure, given Kingwa's desire to have as good a signal path as possible on Neutral that it hasn't been compromised.

 At least I'm not worried, can't speak for anyone else


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I'm not planning to make a poll. I'm not using Comic Sans either. Yes the design file he sent me uses that and that's what he told me it was (and as per the design file he's right) but that's not what's on my Compass that's just a few feet away from me! Confused me for sure. I even tried a few things to identify the font and they all failed, including a web based image recognition tool which properly identified Comic Sans but can not pull up a match for what is actually on the real Compass.

 I am truly perplexed, the design file also contained the C2-C and that also had Comic Sans. I really haven't a clue how that changed between there and the actual silkscreening but if he's always been using Comic Sans, he's never gotten that on his products it looks like. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think it will be Calibri. It's inoffensive._

 

you knew I was joking about the poll right?

 Anyway, it must have something to do with the supplier. Either Kingwa worked it out with him, or he's doing it on his own.

 So, to be sure, is that the font that it's going to be, as pictured in your post? Is that Calibri bold? I think the final design looks really sharp. I think we all got carried away with the icons, and I'm really happy it ended up like this. Nice work.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure if the jumper configuration actually means that the basic circuit is bright, but I haven't looked at the circuit diagram to figure it all out. I'm sure, given Kingwa's desire to have as good a signal path as possible on Neutral that it hasn't been compromised.

 At least I'm not worried, can't speak for anyone else 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am not too concerned either. The fact of the matter is that usually an end user doesn't have any choice at all in the way a piece is voiced. Plus I am sure this will make many HD650 owners happy. Anyone who has listened to his soft1 or 2 settings can hear how transparent his filters are.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you knew I was joking about the poll right?

 Anyway, it must have something to do with the supplier. Either Kingwa worked it out with him, or he's doing it on his own.

 So, to be sure, is that the font that it's going to be, as pictured in your post? Is that Calibri bold? I think the final design looks really sharp. I think we all got carried away with the icons, and I'm really happy it ended up like this. Nice work._

 

Considering I turned the font in to "outlines" in Illustrator, it should come out right. That means they're no longer fonts, just a series of points connected and filled in just like the symbols.

 And no, the Calibri isn't bold. It's all regular.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does that include the second part of your review??.. sorry if i sound like...._

 

Yes It does. I'm chipping away at it.....that's all I'm going to say for now on the subject.

 Peete.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks!

 And I too am very glad that the front/back project is done with. The decision making process was probably not what you're thinking but I discussed as much of everything as I could with Kingwa before anything was finalized. I now have to wait and hope it comes from the manufacturer looking the way it should!

 Any feedback on the under-lid silkscreening? I told Kingwa I would send it to him as soon as I got some feedback._

 

One small thing...
 on the "internal diagram" perhaps instead of 2 blocks that say "jumpers" it should be 2 small rectangles.Also, if you align the diagram on its side so that the jumper guide to the right, is aligned to the way the jumpers appear on the board, it might make it clearer. Also a couple of fake knobs on the front panel should make it idiot proof.
 I am not sure if I am being very clear... I hope so!


----------



## Joeoboe

One more thing... if you rotate the internal diagram 90 deegrees to match the jumper guide... you should also rotate the HDAM diagram so it remains aligned with the diagram...


----------



## mbd2884

Great Kingwa chose which design he likes.

 Can this thread go back to discussing what actually matters about the Compass? Good grief.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes It does. I'm chipping away at it.....that's all I'm going to say for now on the subject.

 Peete._

 

I wish you the best of luck! That's a big task to put all that together I'm sure, even though I've never concocted a review of anything that lengthy and thorough.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One small thing...
 on the "internal diagram" perhaps instead of 2 blocks that say "jumpers" it should be 2 small rectangles.Also, if you align the diagram on its side so that the jumper guide to the right, is aligned to the way the jumpers appear on the board, it might make it clearer. Also a couple of fake knobs on the front panel should make it idiot proof.
 I am not sure if I am being very clear... I hope so!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Once you got to the whole rotating thing you lost me a bit, but the volume knobs on the diagram were something I thought about but wound up not doing because I was being a bit silly and wanted them to have correctly scaled spacing relative to the real front panel. Here you have it.


----------



## Joeoboe

And one more thing... I would tell people to unplug the Compass. This is for legal and idiot proofing reasons. That way if they blow something up by forgetting to power off, they should know to unplug first... it covers everyone's butt!


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And one more thing... I would tell people to unplug the Compass. This is for legal and idiot proofing reasons. That way if they blow something up by forgetting to power off, they should know to unplug first... it covers everyone's butt!_

 

At the top it says turn it off
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...n/lidlabel.gif


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not too concerned either. The fact of the matter is that usually an end user doesn't have any choice at all in the way a piece is voiced. Plus I am sure this will make many HD650 owners happy. Anyone who has listened to his soft1 or 2 settings can hear how transparent his filters are._

 

Actually I have the 650's and I pretty happy with the current treble quality . It's certainly not what I'd call a bright amp to begin with. It's much more organic in nature which I much prefer anyway regardless of headphone. I will certainly give the bright setting a try to see what it does but I'm a real Neutral junkie at heart.

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

True, "unplugging" should probably be added. Kingwa doesn't say it on his site but I do it anyway myself whenever I'm doing something in my Compass. Unplugging is always a good idea and an extra safety precaution.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csommers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At the top it says turn it off
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...n/lidlabel.gif_

 

Which is not the same as unplugging. There is a reason that all repair manuals tell you to unplug stuff before servicing it. Kingwa is putting user adjustable stuff under the hood. He really should protect himself from getting sued by telling people to unplug. Every other manufacturer on the planet does this.


----------



## csroc

Updated to include the instruction to unplug.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Updated to include the instruction to unplug._

 

I like that. There really is not room to rotate the internal diagram, but by adding the 2 jumpers and knobs I think it is pretty clear now. If someone cannot figure it out, then perhaps they should not have the cover off in the first place!


----------



## Drosera

I wake up and two members have changed their avatars. I like your new faces *mbd2884* and *Laidback*!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I strongly recommend to get rid of the soft modes. Neutral is the way to go and it could get the price down and I would put in better parts in it instead._

 

Sorry to drag this up, but I just wanted to say that I would very strongly recommend _against_ this. Not so much from a parts-cost perspective. As was already pointed out, that's not very important.
 What you have to keep in mind is that the amp section of the Compass is both brutally transparent and a bit forward in its presentation. It so happens that very few of the testers (with the exception of Joeoboe) are actually using the soft-settings. But given the current sad state of recordings being made in the 'popular field', I think many of the future users will be very grateful for the possibility to 'tone things down a bit'.
 (Between the sound signature settings of the amp-section and the 'opamp-rolling' options of the DAC, you really have an amazing versatility in tailoring the sound to your own preferences.)


----------



## csroc

When I saw mbd2884's new avatar I did a double take. That one messes with your mind.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I saw mbd2884's new avatar I did a double take. That one messes with your mind._

 

Haha, must be disconcerting.


----------



## mbd2884

So Kingwa changed the Jumper Settings from the original 18 to the new version. The 18 test units, neutral setting is both jumpers pullled out. Or at least the diagram he posted on the website when he sent me the Compass has it that way. 

 I also specifically asked him to send mine with 13dB setting with neutral sound setting repeatedly. And he sent mine with both jumpers pulled out.

 Or did Kingwa decide the the former Neutral was too bright to be neutral?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So Kingwa changed the Jumper Settings from the original 18 to the new version. The 18 test units, neutral setting is both jumpers pullled out. Or at least the diagram he posted on the website when he sent me the Compass has it that way._

 

That's the correct diagram for the original/test/V1 Compass. It is incorrect for all V2 Compasses.

 I think all the test units shipped with everything set for 19dB. If you had no jumpers installed for the sound settings then you got yours shipped to you in neutral mode (like everyone did afaik).


----------



## mbd2884

So he changed the configurations for the upgraded version then?


----------



## csroc

Apparently he did, yes. Those are the configuration instructions he sent me when I asked for them for the V2 so I could get the lid diagram correct.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apparently he did, yes. Those are the configuration instructions he sent me when I asked for them for the V2 so I could get the lid diagram correct._

 

Interesting then. I haven't listened to any different settings, but if Kingwa has decided the initial setting was too bright for neutral, doesn't hurt to add in a few jumpers.

 Listening to Oceanlab (Above & Beyond project) with the new "neutral" settings. 
 - Also checked that yes, he did send mine with the 13dB setting.

 Also would add, when I first opened up the Compass, it took a while to find the right allen wrench size. Might suggest to Kingwa to let users know what size allen wrench to use.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So he changed the configurations for the upgraded version then?




_

 

Yes he has made those changes, added a bright and let go of soft 3, and the gain set at 9/15db.. sounds good to me at least..


----------



## csroc

I believe Currawong suggested Kingwa ship the necessary wrench (3mm) for removing the top panel with every Compass. I don't need one, I've got plenty o' tools but it would be a nice gesture for many other people (easily lost though).


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes he has made those changes, added a bright and let go of soft 3, and the gain set at 9/15db.. sounds good to me at least.._

 

Blargh! So mine with no jumpers in is neutral then? And Kingwa actually changed the circuit for the new sound settings? Sorry for repeating, but just want this to be clear.

 1). He changed the Compass itself so that all jumpers out would have a bright sound rather than Neutral?

 2). Renamed the original Neutral to Bright setting and eliminated Soft 3 in succession after?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also would add, when I first opened up the Compass, it took a while to find the right allen wrench size. Might suggest to Kingwa to let users know what size allen wrench to use._

 

Yeah, it's 3mm. But if you have a non-metric allen key set, that might be a problem. (Not completely sure about that.)
 It's been proposed before that Kingwa should include a (cheap) allen key with the Compass. For example, one of those very simple L-shaped ones. Can't cost more than a few cents in the local Chinese market.

 EDIT: Something like this.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Blargh! So mine with no jumpers in is neutral then? And Kingwa actually changed the circuit for the new sound settings?_

 

Yes, I think would be correct to say, without jumpers is neutral - about the circuit being changed, I have no clues as of now.. but I think he knows better to make different setting without changing the circuit.. Don't know - this is a layman's understanding talking here (me)..


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I think would be correct to say, without jumpers is neutral - about the circuit being changed, I have no clues as of now.. but I think he knows better to make different setting without changing the circuit.. Don't know - this is a layman's understanding talking here (me).._

 

I just emailed him the question, hopefully he understood my question.

 Yep says updated Compass has new parameters so all jumpers out is neutral for the 18 test versions.


----------



## Drosera

Hey *mbd2884*, you sold your D2000? What gives?

 And you're now looking at other phones that need an amp to sound good. Are you going to buy another Compass for listening to music at work?


----------



## Toe Tag

Quote:


 Originally Posted by Toe TagThe only question I have left is: did the 18 testers vote on Sun/Moon/Earth as the best default? After all the work that has gone into making this such a kick-ass DAC/headphone amp (and pre-amp) it would be stupid to make the default OPA anything less than what the testers prefer. From the last few pages it seemed like Earth was best. But obviously only people who have heard all 3 should vote. 
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, it was Kingwa who decided that.. we haven't had any vote on that because its subjective and depends on personal tastes.._

 


 

It would still be interesting to poll the 18 expert testers on which module. I mean, more that half of this website is subjective and depends on personal tastes. But if 70% of the testers prefer the Earth, there might be something to that. Sure, I'm only $20 away from finding out, but it can't be hard to poll this, I mean I thought the whole purpose of the Compass was to gather and apply expert opinions, why stop at the 1 yard line?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toe Tag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It would still be interesting to poll the 18 expert testers on which module. I mean, more that half of this website is subjective and depends on personal tastes. But if 70% of the testers prefer the Earth, there might be something to that. Sure, I'm only $20 away from finding out, but it can't be hard to poll this, I mean I thought the whole purpose of the Compass was to gather and apply expert opinions, why stop at the 1 yard line?_

 

Are you suggesting another poll??..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well I read atleast this thread on a daily basis and I find a majority of folks in here prefer the Earth as it sounds more neutral, but that being said - both moon and sun can be a refreshing change too - in fact lately there seems to be many people liking the Sun V2.. so my guess is that even if we conduct a poll for the choice of opamp - I can bet my money on Earth as a winner.. but then its just my money..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you suggesting another poll??..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well I read atleast this thread on a daily basis and I find a majority of folks in here prefer the Earth as it sounds more neutral, but that being said - both moon and sun can be a refreshing change too - in fact lately there seems to be many people liking the Sun V2.. so my guess is that even if we conduct a poll for the choice of opamp - I can bet my money on Earth as a winner.. but then its just my money.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

And is it really that relevant in the end what the testers preferred? Sure, if you ask all the testers I'm convinced we would come up with a more or less universal recommendation for the Earth as default. The best solution however, I think, is to keep this last thing in mind, but not make any of the opamps default in any kind of binding sense. It's a matter of personal taste, after all. You will never know which one you will end up preferring unless you live with/listen to each of them for quite some time.


----------



## Currawong

Incidentally, I put the compass in pre-amp mode switching between using just the DAC, and the DAC and pre-amp, and it was clear that the head/pre-amp has an attenuated treble, from somewhere above 1kHz.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edsel, I don't much care for Comic Sans either but it seems to be a standard Audio-gd font. Someone suggested Calibri and another couple suggestions came in for Helvetica (or a variant of it). I don't actually have Helvetica but Calibri might be an option as it looks nice and isn't vastly different in shape than Comic Sans but it lacks "silliness." I definitely want to stay sans-serif personally._

 

Bitstream Vera Sans! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's an open source... reflects the open nature of the process of designing the Compass perhaps? License free too


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Incidentally, I put the compass in pre-amp mode switching between using just the DAC, and the DAC and pre-amp, and it was clear that the head/pre-amp has an attenuated treble, from somewhere above 1kHz._

 

What do you use as a reference? (In other words, attenuated compared to what?)


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toe Tag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for straightening me out on that guys. The only question I have left is: did the 18 testers vote on Sun/Moon/Earth as the best default? After all the work that has gone into making this such a kick-ass DAC/headphone amp (and pre-amp) it would be stupid to make the default OPA anything less than what the testers prefer. From the last few pages it seemed like Earth was best. But obviously only people who have heard all 3 should vote._

 

All three have different sound signatures. It's personal preference, there can't be a "best" one except in your own opinion

 EDIT: Beaten ages ago by Sandchak whoops


----------



## oldschool

I am glad to see Kingwa went with the design closest to my choice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also welcome the changed sound signature settings. Adding the Bright option is nice.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you use as a reference? (In other words, attenuated compared to what?)_

 

Compass DAC in Super mode via DAC out to Stax
 vs. 
 Compass DAC in Normal mode via Pre out to Stax.

 In other words, the reference was the signal not going through the HP amp section at all.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Compass DAC in Super mode via DAC out to Stax
 vs. 
 Compass DAC in Normal mode via Pre out to Stax.

 In other words, the reference was the signal not going through the HP amp section at all._

 

Thanks, that is interesting. Even more so because in my evaluation (using the Corda Opera as reference) I haven't yet encountered this. (Which might say something about the Opera. Oh dear....)


----------



## Sganzerla

Reading all of this discussion about the amp in Compass, settings and attenuated treble I'm beginning to think my K701 is much brighter than I tought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Compared to Earth with 300 hours, Moon doesn't sound good to me yet, there is something strange happening with the midlles. I can't wait before it reaches its 300 hours to see what happens.

 Besides the instruction guide I have another recomendation to make. I couldn't get of the foam (protection to HDAM) entirely from Compass, there is this white mess left. Another time I'll fight again with this. Does someone know what we can suggest him?

 Is that correct to say that to change fuse one without much experience will have a very bad time? No one found this? I mean, the fuse is that grey thing right after the power cord connection, right? I don't have much knowledge about this.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Is that correct to say that to change fuse one without much experience will have a very bad time? No one found this? I mean, the fuse is that grey thing right after the power cord connection, right? I don't have much knowledge about this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Are you saying it is difficult physically to change the fuse or hazardous meaning risky?

 Ok, it seems like the fuse is in the transformer - meaning inside the transformer chassis/enclosure.. (!!)

 So yes, its not an easy job.. but the grey resistors you are talking about are not fuse.. but what you say is correct, not an easy task to change fuse if needed..

 EDIT - More info on fuse of Compass if anyone is interested :

 It happens that if the fuse breaks then Compass itself has to be sent for repair : But, this will happen only if :

 1) AC Voltage spikes up by 50% and remains that way for 5mins or more
 1) AC Voltage spikes by 100%, then within 20 seconds the fuse will blow..

 So I guess the chances are very less.. still, it might help as an info since someone raised the issue..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Compared to Earth with 300 hours, Moon doesn't sound good to me yet, there is something strange happening with the midlles. I can't wait before it reaches its 300 hours to see what happens._

 

The sound of the HDAMs go all over the place for the first 350 hours. At 220 hours or so, they lose a lot of treble for a while. It's so funny to read people writing about burn in not existing when you nail down the sound changes in these things to +/-10 hours just about.


----------



## majkel

Some people shortly before the death reported that after 700,000 hours of burn-in HDAM's let you shake the solist's hand and talk to him as he stood in front of you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OPA Moon is strange on the midrange, in transparent setups it's obvious, as well as some Earth's midrange texture and soundstage flaws. The Sun v.2 is the best but still not perfect... just quite close. Please don't respond with burn-in thingy to every person reporting something isn't quite right. This is getting ridiculous sometimes and is not polite. We're not talking about mechanics, there is nothing to wear out for more than ~50 hours.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Blargh! So mine with no jumpers in is neutral then? And Kingwa actually changed the circuit for the new sound settings? Sorry for repeating, but just want this to be clear.

 1). He changed the Compass itself so that all jumpers out would have a bright sound rather than Neutral?

 2). Renamed the original Neutral to Bright setting and eliminated Soft 3 in succession after?_

 

As I understand it, he redesigned the Compass to be brighter. He did not just rename the original Neutral to Bright. In order to get a neutral sound you now need to add a filter using the first jumper.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The sound of the HDAMs go all over the place for the first 350 hours. At 220 hours or so, they lose a lot of treble for a while. It's so funny to read people writing about burn in not existing when you nail down the sound changes in these things to +/-10 hours just about._

 

Funny, I noticed the most significant treble-loss with the Earth around a 100 hours or so. 

 Regardless, whether it's the HDAMs or the Compass (probably both), it wil take a LOT of time before they really come into their own. I don't know how many of us have conscientiously logged the changes occuring with the Compass, but certainly if there are enough reports this should be included in the FAQ/manual.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some people shortly before the death reported that after 700,000 hours of burn-in HDAM's let you shake the solist's hand and talk to him as he stood in front of you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OPA Moon is strange on the midrange, in transparent setups it's obvious, as well as some Earth's midrange texture and soundstage flaws. The Sun v.2 is the best but still not perfect... just quite close. Please don't respond with burn-in thingy to every person reporting something isn't quite right. This is getting ridiculous sometimes and is not polite. We're not talking about mechanics, there is nothing to wear out for more than ~50 hours._

 

If honestly, people are just reporting on what they heard or experianced - yes I believe like you say " Audio GD discrete op-amps reviewed" - does not make you an authority on what you have reviewed, I take it as it is simply your views, just like many other views and my own personal view might differ from you or anyone else.. as long as we respect other peoples view - it is polite..step beyond that and even dead man will start talking..


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I understand it, he redesigned the Compass to be brighter. He did not just rename the original Neutral to Bright. In order to get a neutral sound you now need to add a filter using the first jumper._

 

Yep I emailed him, that's what he said. For those with 18, remove all jumpers completely for neutral, 13dB setting.

 I did try using Soft 1 setting for a about twenty minutes. Noticeable change in lack of detail and more laid back sound. Bass more prominent, but separation compromised, separation between the bass drum and the bass guitar. The impact between the kick and drum surface was lost.

 Also added to my music impressions the settings I used.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep I emailed him, that's what he said. For those with 18, remove all jumpers completely for neutral, 13dB setting.

 I did try using Soft 1 setting for a about twenty minutes. Noticeable change in lack of detail and more laid back sound. Bass more prominent, but separation compromised, separation between the bass drum and the bass guitar. The impact between the kick and drum surface was lost.

 Also added to my music impressions the settings I used._

 

I have been spending many many hours( over 2 weeks now) with the Soft 3 settings for a couple reasons:
 1. To FULLY burn-in the entire circuit (including HDAM)
 2. To try to avoid a very natural tendency of brighter things sounding "better". If you listen to something that is eq'd slightly bright and then shut of the eq, MOST people say that the duller sound has less detail and is "veiled" or lacking in impact. THis is a very very normal reaction. So to fight that normal human response I am trying to do this backwards... add brightness after being acclimated to a filtered sound. When I get to what sounds natural, I will stop. I have to admit that right now, soft 3 IS too soft... and I notice it on every recording except the brightest ones. I figure that next week I will switch to Soft 2 and live with it for a couple weeks.

 Of course, brightness and tonal balance are really personal taste... thus the variety of headphones used and all the strong opinions expressed on these boards. Also... everyone's ears probably have a greater set of differences in frequency response than any piece of electronics due to construction of the outer and inner ear as well as aging and other factors. It is probably a good idea that the Compass has such a flexible design. As I get older and lose my hearing I may need that Bright setting!


----------



## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If honestly, people are just reporting on what they heard or experianced - yes I believe like you say " Audio GD discrete op-amps reviewed" - does not make you an authority on what you have reviewed_

 

I haven't ever stated it makes me authority, nor does anything else. Where did you get that idea from? Quote:


 , I take it as it is simply your views, just like many other views and my own personal view might differ from you or anyone else.. as long as we respect other peoples view - it is polite..step beyond that and even dead man will start talking..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

That's OK but I realized a simplification which I didn't agree with. When some other guys observed what I did, or something different from unconditional enthusiasm, there is a simple answer - lack of burn-in, end of story. Let's keep the discussion equal. Some people say certain devices are best in this universe, some other perceive it different, and it's not each time something is worse or less than perfect just due to burn-in. In my personal case, I had an impression that the OPA Moon got worse a bit after time but I looked at that from a distant view that everything like mood, ambience pressure, time of the day, quality of AC power, etc. might affect the sound to the perceptible level, so I did not report a single thing on the change. There is nothing to burn-in in the HDAMs for more then 50 hours - respect what the designer says, and respect what the science says. Make some effort to think broader and look for other reasons you heard something in a different way.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some people shortly before the death reported that after 700,000 hours of burn-in HDAM's let you shake the solist's hand and talk to him as he stood in front of you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OPA Moon is strange on the midrange, in transparent setups it's obvious, as well as some Earth's midrange texture and soundstage flaws. The Sun v.2 is the best but still not perfect... just quite close. Please don't respond with burn-in thingy to every person reporting something isn't quite right. This is getting ridiculous sometimes and is not polite. We're not talking about mechanics, there is nothing to wear out for more than ~50 hours._

 

I agree with your thoughts on the Moon and Earth. However, I've heard the changes that PP has reported with my own ears. I have a C2C that didn't settle down until 350+ hours of use, just as had been suggested to me. I wasn't expecting either.

 I think though that the slight differences between the HDAMs are what's responsible for an illusion of a larger or smaller soundstage, as our brain interprets the strength of different frequencies to mean that they are closer or more distant.


----------



## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think though that the slight differences between the HDAMs are what's responsible for an illusion of a larger or smaller soundstage, as our brain interprets the strength of different frequencies to mean that they are closer or more distant._

 

I could agree to this one as there is something common between proper sound imaging and harmonic completeness. The Earth was very forward but a bit dry at the same time, the Moon is making a bit of surround soundstage and rounded notes. The Sun v.2 is more distant and open sounding but at the same time it never pushes the sounds into my head as I intended it to be while designing my headphone amp.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't ever stated it makes me authority, nor does anything else. Where did you get that idea from?
 That's OK but I realized a simplification which I didn't agree with. When some other guys observed what I did, or something different from unconditional enthusiasm, there is a simple answer - lack of burn-in, end of story. Let's keep the discussion equal. Some people say certain devices are best in this universe, some other perceive it different, and it's not each time something is worse or less than perfect just due to burn-in. In my personal case, I had an impression that the OPA Moon got worse a bit after time but I looked at that from a distant view that everything like mood, ambience pressure, time of the day, quality of AC power, etc. might affect the sound to the perceptible level, so I did not report a single thing on the change. There is nothing to burn-in in the HDAMs for more then 50 hours - respect what the designer says, and respect what the science says. Make some effort to think broader and look for other reasons you heard something in a different way than burn-in._

 

It isn't the first time you have expressed your views - and even though I still disagree with your views, I will not say that what you say is becoming ridiculous because that is what I perceive as being impolite..

 What can I do?? I can hear the differences.. can you help me not to hear the difference which my ears perceive??..


----------



## csroc

It's almost impossible to compare notes on anything but significant changes in sound or sound differences with other people with any real authority or reliability. Particularly because perception can be influenced and it is a person's reality but not necessarily an objective truth. But it's always fun anyway


----------



## mbd2884

[size=large]*My Impressions of one of the 18 Compass Test models*[/size]

 Compass Pictures courtesy of Peete and mbd2884

 [size=medium]*Equipment Featured:*[/size]

 Laptop (W/ Monkey Media Otachan's ASIO .67 (dll)). Audio Technica AD900. Audio-gd Compass (Earth/Moon HDAM, 13 dB setting and neutral setting). Audio-gd Power Cable. Furutech FP-704 Plug

 [size=medium]*Purchasing Tips*[/size]

 When you purchase the Compass do the following. Contact Kingwa by email and notify him of your payment. He will verify it. Then email him the exact location where you want the product shipped, no confusion. Important let him know where you are located and specify 120V or 220V, and which HDAM you want, Earth, Moon and Sun.

 [size=medium]*What is the Compass?*[/size]

 The Compass is an excellent DAC, using the PCM2707 for USB input and the AD1852 as the D/A. Further detail below.

 Compass is a discrete, class A, desktop Amplifier with a neutral signature.

 Compass is a combination, DAC/Amp with a dedicated power source all in one case, each on it's own module, a modular design, unique like no other in it's price range.

 Compass is a Pre-Amp, a switch option in the backpanel.

 Compass is just an Amp. A bypass disconnects the Amp from the DAC completely.

 Compass is 100% fully discrete output, only IC in the input for the PCM2707, and AD1852, with the DIR9001 to reduce jitter. More info below.

 For more specific technical and comparisons to other products, please read Peete's Review:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5420063-post2019.html. 

 For greater detail in comparison of the Compass DAC and Amp for clarity, detail, control and so forth read Currawong's and Drosera's reviews, which are linked in the OP.

 [size=medium]*Quality of Build*[/size]

_*Chassis*_ is all aluminum. Even the dials are all aluminium. The aluminum is 8mm thickness and very sturdy, heavy and solid. Has a nice tactile feel to it.

_*Headphone Jack*_ is a neutrik locking 1/4" jack. It's fantastic, if never seen or used one, you'll be impressed.

_*Volume Pot*_ is the Alps RK27 Blue Velvet

_*The Digital Audio Interface *_used is the DIR9001, which has the lowest jitter available within this Price Bracket.

_*The Digital Analog Converter *_is the AD1852. This is an oversampling semiconductor capable of 24 bit / 192 processing. The Compass limits it to 24 bit / 96 for Coaxial and Optical input. 16 bit / 44.1/48 for USB input.
*Attention!* The Compass cannot upsample. Nothing is upsampled, means that if the input is 16 bit 44.1 khz (CD and MP3s), the output is 16 bit 44.1 khz. Even though the AD1852 is oversampling, the sample rate is dependent on the input. Your music is not distorted or changed. There are a few posts in this thread from idiots who attempted to spread false information, I apologize for the confusion they have caused. This was all verified by Kingwa himself, the winner of the 2007 National Semiconductor contest, who knows more about his own product? I like to think Kingwa.

_*The USB Input*_ is the Burr Brown PCM2707, the current standard in the audio industry. It is then converted to spdif by I2S to the AD1852. Even the highest grade DAC that use PCM1704UK, use the PCM2707 with an I2S converstion. I2S is used to keep jitter as low as possible. Pretty much all you need to know, using the USB input, the processing still occurs at AD1852, the conversion ensures low jitter and best audio results for you.

  Quote:


 *USB -> PCM2707 -> I2S -> AD1852 -> Amp -> Headphones* 
 

 Quote:


 *I2S*, or *Inter-IC Sound*, or *Integrated Interchip Sound*, is an electrical serial bus interface standard used for connecting digital audio devices together. It is most commonly used to carry PCM information between the CD transport and the DAC in a CD player. The I2S bus separates clock and data signals, resulting in a very low jitter connection. Jitter can cause distortion in a digital-to-analog converter. 
 

_*Caps:*_ Evox Caps are used. Easiest ones identified are the Cap Mods applied to the HDAM. They are the white caps on the side, near the connection. Evox Rifa is a US company with 60 years experience, recently acquired by the Kemet Group, still located in USA, with headquarters around the world. 

_*Electrolytic Capacitors:*_ Are made by NOVER, they manufacture audio grade electrolytic capacitors. The huge black RX11 and the smaller black and gold capacitors. If you search NOVER you will run into Anglia, Anglia is their distributor. 

_*Resistors:*_ Made by Dale

_*Transistors:*_ Toshiba and Hitach audio products

_*The PCB boards*_ are 2MM copper, gold plated. 

_*Soldering:*_ Audio-gd Products are soldered by Hi-Fi enthusiasts only, no sweathshops here. The soldering work is top quality verified by other Compass users also. 

_*Quality Control:*_ All Audio-gd products undergo 100 hours of burn in and testing before shipment. 

 [size=medium]*The Compass AMP*[/size]

 Compass has a full sized desktop Amp. Just cause it has both DAC/Amp, doesn't mean anything was compromised. I posted a picture of the Gilmore Lite which is one of the more recommended discrete SS Amp here on Head-Fi for Mid-Fi users. 

 [size=medium][size=x-small]I also posted a picture of the KECES 171. This is to show what the KECES Amp is. KECES Claims their 152 is the 151 with something like the 171, but you can't tell since it's all on one board. Here with 151 and 171 can see for comparison to the Compass. Hope this helps for those who want to compare the Compass to the 152 from a design and technical aspect. Not a quality vs SQ comparison for those who I may have angered. FYI the 171 Amp is claimed to be improved over the 152 Amp, so it's not the exact same, but it gives you an idea, right?[/size][/size]

 Compass is a Class A device just as all of Audio-gd's products. The final version for the rest of you will be 9 db /15 db. I think it has been suggested the HD650 should still be fine with 9 db option. For the Newbs like myself, who may wonder what is Class A?

 Wikipedia quick description
  Quote:


 Class A amplifying devices operate over the whole of the input cycle such that the output signal is an exact scaled-up replica of the input with no clipping. In a Class A circuit, the amplifying element is biased so the device is always conducting to some extent, and is operated over the most linear portion of its characteristic curve (known as its transfer characteristic or transconductance curve). Because the device is always conducting, even if there is no input at all, power is drawn from the power supply. 
 

Also some blah blah over in-efficient, but we are talking about headphone amps, not power/integrated amps. 






 [size=medium][size=x-small][size=medium]*
 Discrete vs OpAmp or IC Design:*[/size]

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/dis...opamps-157504/

 The main reason why the Compass DAC and Amp looks drastically different from the KECES 151, KECES 171, KECES 152 is because the KECES products are all IC, Integrated Circuit Design.

 [/size][/size] Quote:


 In electronics, an *integrated circuit* (also known as *IC*, *microcircuit*, *microchip*, *silicon chip*, or *chip*) is a miniaturized electronic circuit (consisting mainly of semiconductor devices, as well as passive components) that has been manufactured in the surface of a thin substrate of semiconductor material. Integrated circuits are used in almost all electronic equipment in use today and have revolutionized the world of electronics. 
 

IC Amps use what are called OpAmps, operational amplifiers. 

  Quote:


 An *operational amplifier*, which is often called an *op-amp*, is a DC-coupled high-gain electronic voltage amplifier with differential inputs and, usually, a single output.[1] Typically the output of the op-amp is controlled either by negative feedback, which largely determines the magnitude of its output voltage gain, or by positive feedback, which facilitates regenerative gain and oscillation. High input impedance at the input terminals (ideally infinite) and low output impedance (ideally zero) are important typical characteristics. 
 

Integrated OpAmps are designed to simplify the complexities of a discrete design. Discrete means that it uses discrete components, individual transistors, caps and so on. The mode of operation at each stage are determined by the user/designer/engineer. Whereas integrated OpAmps are multi purpose devices. That is probably the biggest difference. Integrated OpAmps are also Class B, meaning they are either on or off until an actual signal passes through. A discrete Amp can be True Class A, always on, full throttle, not dependent on music signal, passes on the signal amplified, input and output are fully balanced.

 Integrated OpAmps can be biased into a Class A design, but it's not a true Class A. If it was, the integrated OpAmp would be destroyed, burned out.

 Audio-gd Compass does use one HDAM, easiest definition, OpAmp on steroids. But the Audio-gd is fully discrete, which is why it's still a true Class A device. Audio-gd were the first to make a discrete HDAM, and continue to be only company to possess the original PCB designs. HDAM, an integrated version was first invented by Marantz who still have proprietary rights to them.
 [size=medium][size=x-small] 
 [/size][/size]So while a cheaper and simpler way to create your DAC, and Amp would be to use OpAmps, this doesn't mean IC design is inherently bad. Just as there are bad discrete amps, there are good IC designs. But in general, Head-Fi and Audiophiles prefer discrete amps. I personally have more respect for engineers/designers who can create quality discrete devices.

 [size=medium]*HDAM in the DAC? Why?*[/size]

 So my question I had, the Amp is fully discrete, and the DAC is fully discrete. Regardless of whether the HDAM from Audio-gd are fully discrete or not, I was wondering why even use it. Then I got more confused as it seems with Solid State amps, one can have by rolling like Tubes, but roll OpAmps. So seeing the OpAmp placed in the DAC in the Compass confused me to no end. I asked earlier in this thread think it got looked over, so I been confused for weeks now.

 For those who had the same confusion as me above, I believe this is the answer. Audio-gd uses their HDAMs to act as a buffer between the DAC and Amp, which will prevent negative feedback, reduce distortions, prevent overloading distortion and electromagnetic interferences. Maybe I'm wrong, but seems it conditions the signal from the DAC to the Amp so for example, there is black silence when no music plays, and that you don't hear any distortions when the volume is increased up and down through the Amp.

 Quote from Wikipedia
  Quote:


 A unity gain buffer amplifier may be constructed very simply by connecting the output of an operational amplifier to its inverting input (negative feedback), and connecting a signal source to the non-inverting input. For this circuit, Vout is simply equal to Vin.

 The importance of this circuit does not come from any change in voltage, but from the input and output impedances of the op-amp. The input impedance of the op-amp is very high (MΩ to 10 TΩ), meaning that the input of the op-amp does not load down the source or draw any current from it. Because the output impedance of the op-amp is very low, it drives the load as if it were a perfect voltage source. Both the connections to and from the buffer are therefore bridging connections, which reduce power consumption in the source, distortion from overloading, crosstalk and other electromagnetic interference. 
 

*

 [size=medium]Earth vs Moon HDAM[/size]*

 Earth HDAM is rated Neutral. The Moon HDAM rated warm, mellow. The Sun v2. HDAM rated Bright, Forward.

 I only have used and heard the Earth and Moon. Earth is definitely more neutral. The details are more emphasized, the mids are clearer, the bass with more impact, and forward, but not as enveloping. Due to all this the Soundstage sounds smaller with the Earth. With the AD900 they work amazingly well. The AD900 is meant for clarity, detail and punch, Earth gives it to them.

 Moon was warmer, more laid back. The Soundstage was expansive, but the mids were more recessed. The bass while there was more, was harder to distinguish. It had a darker sound. It definitely will have its aficianados, me using the AD900 and future HD600 prefer the Earth. I believe the Moon would souund good with the HD650.

 [size=medium]*Compass DAC*[/size]

 The Compass DAC is 100% fully output discrete DAC. The input, is integrated, using the AD1852 D/A and the DIR9001 DSP to reduce jitter. 

 For Compass DAC comparison to Meier Audio Opera please read Drosera's review:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5452809-post3201.html

 For Compass DAC comparison to DAC1 read Currawong's review:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5423587-post2105.html

 Currawong's initial DAC review:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5354481-post890.html

 Again for further details comparison to other DAC and Amps read Peete's review:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5420063-post2019.html

 [size=x-small]The Compass DAC in this review will have picture comparisons to the KECES 151 DAC, which I feel on Head-Fi is most recommended by those interested in the Compass.

 I also added an internal PCB picture to the Zero.

 [/size][size=medium][size=x-small][size=medium]*Audio-gd Compass Power Source*[/size]

 Just compare to something like the KECES for power source. Then look at something like Gilmore Lite which uses a Elpac WallWart. Any questions about the power source should be answered now. Compass is well fitted for power. I mentioned Gilmore Lite because in all the threads I've read, no one has asked, is the Lite well powered. But in this thread, there have been a few who questioned the Compass power, implying it needed more...

 Underneath is the 50w Toroidal power source. Taken from Peete. [/size][/size]Fully shielded 50 Watt Toroidal transformer 100-120V or 220-240V primary - customer specified at time of order. No universal V switch used because of Sound Quality degradation. Transformer is rated at 120V 
 or 240V instead of cheaper 110-115 or 220-230V competitors.

 Power source is also Full Sized. Notice in separate power source, the rectifier is screwed to the floor of the casing with the toroidal behind. Do the same for the Compass power source, there you go. I don't see the difference. Any questions still whether the Compass is well powered? /Flex 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*[size=x-large]Picture Time!![/size]*

 I think having these pictures right in your face to compare, should dissipate any thoughts that the Compass is some hybrid DAC/Amp combo, where in fact that is not the case. It's equivalent of stuffing a full sized DAC and full sized Amp into one package. 

 Disclaimer: These pictures are to demonstrate that the Compass comprises of a complete, separate, desktop, 100% discrete class A Amp. Also a separate, desktop headphone DAC, 100% discrete output. Not SQ or sound comparisons or anything related to that.

 [size=medium]*Compass Rectifier*[/size]
 [size=medium][size=x-small]Rectifier is a Alternate Current converter to Direct Current. [/size][/size]






 [size=medium]*Gilmore Lite*[/size]







 [size=medium]*Purity Audio KICAS: Also Class A Discrete Amp







 Compass Amp*[/size]







 [size=medium]*KECES 171 Headphone Amp/PreAmp*[/size]







 [size=medium]*
 KECES 151 USB DAC





**
 Compass DAC







 Compass vs 152, just the Amp/DAC

 [size=small]KECES 152 (Left), Audio-gd Compass (Right)

 [/size] 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Zero DAC/Amp: For $125 impressive. The DAC appears to be at the top and the Amp at the bottom in the picture.










 So how big is it?!?!?

 Gilmore Lite






 KECES 152 (USB DAC/Amp Combo) w/ HD600






 Compass: Yes it's even bigger! 







*[size=x-large]*ACCESSORIES: Audio-gd Power Cable, Furutech FP-704, and more glorious pictures*[/size][/size]

 It seems to me, there is a lot of new headphone fans looking at this now gigantic thread, looking for their first substantial upgrade for an audiophile grade DAC, first true 100% discrete Amp, with Neutral sound. 

 And when they read descriptions here, there must be others like myself, without any reference points to compare to in front of them. Everything on the Compass and its accessories are oversized in comparison to my previous gear. Here are some photos for the new people to get an understanding, when I say RIDICULOUS!

 Left: Neutrik 1/8" Gold Plated Center: Audio Technica Stock with 1/4" adapter Right: Furutech FP-704





 Neutrik Locking Jack with Neutrik 1/8" and Furutech FP-704





 Stock Power Cables compared to Audio-gd After-Market Power Cables





 The stock vs Audio-gd cables size comparison





 How big is everything in comparison?

 AD900s look great still huh? Three years of being dropped, sat on, flying across room when flipping bed covers while AD900s lay on top listening before sleepy time, and still like new. Take that Grado fans! That's called quality build to survive the inadvertent stupidities, guaranteed I'd wreck any Grado within a weeks time.






 Yeah as Sandchack said, don't let the power cables size diminish the size of the Compass. Here is is compared to my 15.4" Asus Laptop. And if you ever see, Asus Laptops, they are also built like tanks, notice a trend here? 

 For a DAC/Amp to just drive your headphones, Compass is huge huh? And yes that wood is my crappy old coffee table I use when I listen to tunes on the couch. My room has shrunk considerably since I shoved a couch in it.






 [size=medium]*Power Cable*[/size]

  Quote:


 Background : LessLoss high end audio power cables, high end video power cables, audio cables, digital cables, power filter, DAC 
 

Sound wise, I would agree with Peete and Sandchak's observations, can go back and read them. As I don't want to repeat what they said, for me the biggest noticable change is the treble. I have no idea how, can't explain why, but the treble is no longer harsh. Its not as piercing as it was this morning, I'm listening to George Winston's Forest Album and its a joy to listen right now. As they said, the sound tone has not changed. Its just certain things sound better than before. The separation on the bass in some songs better. But thing I can say for sure, definitively for my ears, the treble has improved enough for me to say, yes there is an audible difference.

 Is this thing worth $75 and plus shipping? Hmm can't say. But you will notice a difference, at least I have. I'm glad I have it.

 [size=medium]*Re-Terminated the AD900*[/size]

 Furutech, what a pain in the ass. Sat there for 5 minutes just deciding how solder them on, no directions, nothing on their website, nothing on this forum either. They could have made it hell lot easier. And yes its truly massive. The black ring for for the jack on the Compass, yeah the Furutech plug is about the same size. I still think its ugly, not what I was expecting at all. Although its really solid, I feel if I took a hammer to it, it would survive unscathed, OK exaggerating, but sure feels like it could. But its still ugly.

 Sound wise, I am pleased. Running my AD900s with a 1/4" plug instead of a 1/8" with an adapter, definite noticeable difference. Another layer of veil is removed. The bass has been tightened a little more, with more impact. The treble is clearer and the more distinct. Overall its just more fun, and happy I decided to replace the plug. If you have a 1/8" on yours, I recommend re-terminating it. But I would use the Neutrik 1/4" gold plated. Its cheaper than the Furutech, slimmer design and easier to solder. Furutech is one fat, massive ugly plug that sounds awesome. But with the Furutech, definitely not placebo. The plug used by Audio Technica has a plastic stem that the the wires are soldered onto. Just seems to be far inferior design to the Furutech and positive that affected the sound.

*[size=large]Compass Impression with MUSIC!![/size]*

*[size=small]Heavy Rock[/size]*

*Godsmack - Bad Religion* 

 Hell yeah, its almost an adrenaline rush and a motivator to do something extremely reckless. The crashing cymbals are excellent, and the voice is so raw and can definitely tell he is screaming into the mic. Soundstaging is excellent, can definitely tell the cymbals used to keep up the beat is on the right, the crashes center and to the right, slightly above. The guitars have a sweet edgy sound to them, even the high notes, they don't whine smoothly like Clapton's fender, but as a proper heavy rock guitar should. The bass drums have that nice slam sound to it, higher pitch sound as it hits the plastic like material, but still have that bass thump.

 [size=small]_*Grunge*_[/size]

 Writing Alice in Chains as I listen. When I think of 90s rock, Alice in Chains with the whole Seattle Grunge phenomenon, well they were the epitome in my mind. No other band had such a distinct sound, their frontman Layne Staley has in my personal opinion the best grunge band vocals, no other frontman has come close since his departure. And Jerry Cantrell is amazing, his play definitely rank as some of the best guitar solos. One of the few guitarist able to go solo after the ending of his band and be better than the current rock/grunge bands. And personally, I can't think of anyone else who can the play G&L RAMPAGE like Cantrell, its orgasmic. Cantrell used the G&L RAMPAGE with Layne Staley but later in his career became known for his mastery over the Gibson Les Paul, listen to some of his solo material. G&L for those don't know was started by the founder of Fender, Leo Fender after he sold Fender. 

 Before continuing, for those who don't know who Alice in Chains are, yeah reunited, but they died after Layne Staley passed away, his voice can't be replaced, sniffle. Favorite album, jeez that's tough to say, favorite for today is Dirt. So you say, you are so full of it about Jerry Cantrell, fast track to 1:55 on Dam that River. That 25 seconds of guitar solo, yeah, that's what the G&L RAMPAGE sounds like in Cantrell's hands. So smooth, yet so gritty with grunge, his fingers just so effortlessly across the frets, there is no grating sound as with many guitarists when they slide their hand along the neck of the guitar. Its just plain smooth. The Compass lets you hear the distinct whine of the G&L. But you can't discount the rest of the band, their drummer like a "good" drummer does, sets the framework for the music. And he does it well, noticeably skilled, but never the focal point of the music. During transitions, Compass lets you hear the change of pace on the Cymbals and Snare drum well. Everything with Alice in Chains is in your face, and Compass brings the music to your face, definitely not behind, or distant, Layne is crooning in your face. Want to hear how distinct Layne's voice can be, listen to Godsmack. Yeah yeah, bet you didn't see that coming. Yep, Alice in Chains - Dirt - Godsmack, that's how awesome this band is. But Cantrell definitely is center stage on this song, aside from the reverberations in Layne's voice, which he personally does, this is not post recording production work, errie.

 Let's backtrack, opening song Them Bones, Layne just screams a few times, ahhh! Compass you can hear his voice reverberate, post recording, or more of a slight echo. Ever so slight to give it volume. This is a short 2:32 song that is just a blast from start to finish. Cantrell steps in at 1:15 and I mean steps in. Everything is just background noise at this point. Layne is a solid rhythm guitarist. He tangos with Cantrell for short bit, Compass reproduces Cantrell's whine with complete separation from Layne's short burst of quick notes, that have no sonic edge at all. When Mike Starr sings in perfect unison, backup, with Layne you can always hear the two voices distinctly, no mistaking the two voices, always two presences. 

 I'd say if Alice in Chains sounds this great on the Compass, this is an excellent DAC/Amp choice for anyone who loves heavy rock/grunge/metal. You won't be disappointed. The edgy guitar whine is concert quality, the bass drum slam, you can visualize the drum kick exactly when it hits the drum surface, and Layne's voice, his high pitched, in minor key voice, as many described as haunting, is heard but along with his low, gutteral voice, often at the same time. If you were in a dark surrounding, only able to see dark shadows faintly, and Layne's voice was in your ears, I think a puddle would form at your feet. The bass guitar I'd say is the most blase aspect of the band's sound. But if you want to just close your eyes, you will hear it, as you listen more, can hear it more distinctly. Compass never loses the bass, its always there, but not in your face, as it would be if it were a lower quality amp. Bass guitar has a lower sound, closer to the frequencies where its you gotta feel in the chest to hear, but no worries, as I said, Compass brings it to you with relative ease.

 If you'd like to hear some more Alice in Chains Awesomeness, look no further than Facelift - Man in the Box. JeeEEeesSuUUuS ChriIIiISssT, Layne, that's what Layne's voice is all about. While the guitar play from both Cantrell and Layne is excellent through the song, it's at 3:15 when their play "dance" with each other. At 3:45 Cantrell does something I can't explain, but its one of the coolest sounds from a guitar. I won't eve try to describe it, but its really really cool, and have to say, I never noticed it until I listened on the Compass. Cantrell's guitar play as I said before, generally is very smooth. But on Sea of Sorrow, at 3:55 you can hear that he has mastered syncopation also, just because he doesn't do it often, don't let that fool you. Not as good as Vince Giraldi, but that's unfair as no other instrument comes close to the Piano in that aspect, as far as guitars go, Cantrell and Compass about as good as it gets in a fast paced rock ballad.

 Its an excellent heavy rock/grunge/metal DAC/Amp. I'd imagine, this is what Solid State amp is all about when listening to fast, energetic, jump around crazy, rock, head banging with imaginary flowing long hair, entangled from the furious movements. When listening to rock on the Compass I wish I played the Guitar. But when I listen to George Winston, I remember again why I chose to play the piano instead.

 What I love most about the Compass and Rock. Well Rock my opinion should be played LOUD, give the music some authority, let the singer come up front to your face. No matter how loud, how far I crank the Volume up, the music's detail, and quality never deteriorates. The bass never decays, never becomes muddy. The treble never becomes sparkly, or unbearable. The Mids never become overwhelmed by the increased volume of the bass, the music remains in balance. This is definitely the biggest difference in my music listening experience so far from other Amps, Soundcards I've listened to in the past, and why I am so addicted to the music right now.

*[size=small]Solo Piano? Some George Winston and David Lanz.[/size]*

*George Winston - The Music of Vince Guaraldi - The Masked Marvel*

 One of my favorite solo Piano Jazz pieces, and no one has the style Winston brings to this piece. Every key stroke is heard, separation again excellent. It starts off with what you expect from this composition, then at 1:40 is when Winston says, hey, I'm better than you ever will be. You thought Guaraldi syncopation was hard to master, I pity you and laugh with impunity at your efforts. Anyone who has tried to play this work to perfection can verify, Guaraldi is one of the toughest to get right, yeah yeah lot of people can play his stuff, but almost everyone does it WRONG. I personally have never heard anyone while in High School, recitals play correctly. So fast, yet so effortless, can visualize those incredible fingers moving in hummingbird speed. So many notes within a second, and you hear every single one. Piano I still believe to be one of the toughest sounds to be reproduced by analog/audio devices, each note on a piano has so many different frequencies, and the Compass does it very well. Its not perfect, can tell you are not standing next to the grand piano, but this as close I've gotten. The imaging is right on, you can visualize as Winston moves his hands to the right and left with the speed of a confident, and rightfully arrogant master. Compass lets you hear the forceful play of Winston, he doesn't hold back, no tentative key strokes. While there is the slight carry over of sound from key to the next, the following keys are very clear. This is what Solo Piano is about.

*George Winston - Plains - Teach Me Tonight. *

 Here Winston is accompanied by a percussion and stand up bass. Its very obvious with Compass that it is a stand up bass, even though its far recessed in the background, you can still hear the distinctions that differentiate a stand up to electric bass. Again, there is no mistaking at any point between the bass notes on the piano and the bass notes of the bass. There is no lag, so fast, even the AD900s seem to be at its limit to keep up with the Compass. The high notes, as Winston slams them in dramatic change of pace and volume, sounds excellent, ears do not hurt for any piercing treble as you might from an inferior source. This entire song is change of pace, change in volume, without any indication ahead of time, I love listening to this composition.

*David Lanz - An Evening with David Lanz - Leaves on the Seine*

 This is a live recording as the title suggests. The recording is very poor in comparison to a studio recording. You do have to jack up the volume a bit to hear it at decent volume, but lucky for us, the Compass complete back silence adds no distortion at all. This piece is slow, good flow. Lanz has a far different style, I don't want to be sexist, but he plays like a girl. Its very flutter like across the keys, not nearly as definitive, or authoritative as Winston. Compass lets you hear immediately the differences, as any Piano player knows, the sound of each key is determined by the pianist. You can hear every rustle and cough of some lame audience member who can't cover his/her mouth right. Even hear a whisper in the background. 

*David Lanz - Skyline Firedance - Dark Horse.*

 This is a studio piece. Not unlike his live recording, his studio recordings are also sub-par. Its a real shame since he is a great pianist in his own right, and style. Here you can hear his music free from rustles of clothing, whispers and coughs. At one point you can hear the creek of the bench as he shifts weight. Lanz spends more time in higher octaves, the notes linger longer, and you can hear hover after being played. But that doesn't detract in the least bit from the continuing, quick, fast notes following. This piece is fast, and while Lanz definitely plays more forcefully, you can still visualize that his style of play is to me, womanly, flutter like. There are some points where you cannot mistake it is in fact a man playing though. 

*Overall conclusion:* 

 The Compass reproduces the sounds and intricacies of the Piano better than anything else I've been able to sit down for a while and listen to. But its not perfect, but that largely has to do with the recordings. A recording just doesn't quite bring the feeling of the music as your hands press firmly against the ivory keys. I'd much rather listen to Winston than on my Uncle's Denon top of the line system with custom 10K speakers, though.

 [size=small]_*Orchestra*_[/size]

 How about some Orchestra music? I do not have a collection of Classical, when I listen to Classical it's when I do work, study and reading, it's background. And there is just too many Classical pieces for me at this point to collect, I listen with streaming 192 internet. And well, its not that great in quality, I won't even both reviewing.

 What I do have is E.S Posthumus. This is incredible work.

*E.S Posthumus - Cartographer (Piri Reis Remixes) - Nasivern Pi*

 This composition is without the main vocalist. The orchestra instead takes center stage. There is an Chorus in the background. The music has a complete percussions including tom toms, timpani, what sounds to me a series of bass drums, similar to japanese drums. The chorus always background, never in front. With a full orchestra, wonderful violins, you can always still hear every chord of an acoustic guitar accompaniment. There is a slow, pleasant solo done by a flute, which you can hear the breathy notes, the distinctive sound as the air passes through the flute from note to note to say, this is not electronic reproduction. This is as full, complicated and all encompassing sound as I can imagine and nothing is lost with the Compass. Nothing at all. 

*E.S Posthumus - Cartographer (Piri Reis Remixes) - Isunova*

 One of the most moving music I have heard. The Violins here take the place of the vocalist. Again Chorus in the Background. But its incredible, you have one set of Violins playing the Vocal's melody, the others backing it up and proividing support. If you love Violins, you will love this on the Compass. The Percussions is excellent also, every kind of percussion sound you can imagine just crashing in succession, in unison, in separate tempos, its eargasmic. Then the Violins sing, with as much passion as a Soprano, they are singing. There are accompanying electric bass, acoustic guitar and in this insanity of immense volume and diversity of sound, nothing is left behind with the Compass. Any questions of whether the Compass has speed, detail and clarity are answered with a resounding YES!

*Conclusion:*

 For this kind of complexity, speed and congestion of sound, you gotta have a fast, Open Air headphone. For those who think DT770 are balanced and got good sound, I'm sorry, you will be doing a great diservice listening to E.S Posthumus with the detail that Compass is providing effortlessly. Even the D2000 when I listened before, the closed enclosure just wouldn't allow you to hear everything right, something was wrong. The Compass will provide a balanced sound, with nothing left behind, this means you gotta use Headphones that can keep up. I believe with the Compass, its the Headphone that will be the bottleneck. Meaning, I believe the potential for the Compass is beyond what AD900s also, if I were to use better headphones, Compass would give everything it could manage. If you don't have a neutral/balanced headphone with excellent Mids, then don't even bother to listen to classical and orchestral music with the Compass.

 [size=small]_*For Trance, very short impression, listen for yourself!*_[/size]

 I am currently listening to Lostep's Burma. After Sasha featured Burma on his Involver album, Lostep was on every Progressive Trance lover's lips, quickly became fan favorites fast. This launched Lostep's reputation and popularity and they came out with their own album, and its fantastic. Burma is over 10 minutes of endless distinctive bass lines and beats. Like all good Trance, Burma has at least two beats constantly and one to two bass lines, you can hear all three/four with the Compass easily. Love this song. You want basshead sound, you will have to change settings, but from Neutral, the bass is dream like, just floats, but with the emphasis that always says, come back, I'm still here.

 I'll just say, so far Lostep, BT, Sander Kleinenberg, James Holden, Sasha all sound incredible on the Compass. If you love Trance, you will love Compass. The full spectrum of detail and incredible range of sound frequency that no other genre of music can match other than Orchestra, Compass does it with ease.

 [size=medium]*Ranking the Sounds*[/size]

 Everything can't be perfect, so what genres of music do I like mos with the Compass?

 1). Grunge/Heavy Metal
 2). Trance/Atmospheric
 3). Ochestra
 4). Brit pop/Soft Rock
 5). Solo Piano, (Piano is just a tough sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


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## indie_big_wig

I have to this thread does seem to be missing one important discussion point that seems to be the flavour of the month on head-fi, "what does the compass sound like with the hd0800's?" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways after reading all about the compass I'm going to enter the world of big expensive audio equipment for the first time and get myself a compass and some hd650's. I can't wait as I've only had the shure se530 IEM before so it'll be my first cans/amp combo.


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## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you suggesting another poll??..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well I read atleast this thread on a daily basis and I find a majority of folks in here prefer the Earth as it sounds more neutral, but that being said - both moon and sun can be a refreshing change too - in fact lately there seems to be many people liking the Sun V2.. so my guess is that even if we conduct a poll for the choice of opamp - I can bet my money on Earth as a winner.. but then its just my money.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

But do they like it with the compass? I think the hdam could be vastly superior to the other two in certain applications but I'm not so sure about in the compass. The sun v2 is much better than the other two in some things like the mids, but I still prefer the other two since sun seems to be a tad too in your face and bad at presenting details equally well.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some people shortly before the death reported that after 700,000 hours of burn-in HDAM's let you shake the solist's hand and talk to him as he stood in front of you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OPA Moon is strange on the midrange, in transparent setups it's obvious, as well as some Earth's midrange texture and soundstage flaws. The Sun v.2 is the best but still not perfect... just quite close. Please don't respond with burn-in thingy to every person reporting something isn't quite right. This is getting ridiculous sometimes and is not polite. We're not talking about mechanics, there is nothing to wear out for more than ~50 hours._

 

I'm sure most of us are inadvertently burning-in our entire audio chain while trying to burn-in the hdam. I agree with most of the things you've said about the hdam's, esp. that none are completely neutral or perfect. They weren't made for neutrality but for their unique characters, even earth imo.


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## csroc

That Furutech is huge. I have seen you complain about it but that really puts it in perspective.

 Agreed though, the Compass is big, beefy and solid feeling and I like it!


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## sandchak

Btw, just in case case people think the Compass is small by looking at the last pic, thats not the case, its just that the Audio GD Custom power cables are HUGE !!..


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## mbd2884

Sandchak is correct, added a picture to demonstrate Compass beefy size.


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## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It isn't the first time you have expressed your views - and even though I still disagree with your views, I will not say that what you say is becoming ridiculous because that is what I perceive as being impolite..

 What can I do?? I can hear the differences.. can you help me not to hear the difference which my ears perceive??.._

 

No, I just doubted that you excluded all other reasons you heard differences. Actually, to confirm a difference, you have to compare directly, one device after another. The sonic memory is unreliable. I can tell you there is something like mental burn-in. The example from the last days: I added another rectifying bridge to my DAC so that I can switch between standard and ultra-fast soft recovery diodes. At the beginning it sounded wierd to me, too transparent and holographic but realized some improvements in the same time - more clarity, more metallic strings, better hi-hat 3D imaging, natural, open space. I switched back to the standard diodes. Wellcome back, thick, heavy sounds but what a congestion, pollution and caricature imaging. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 WTH?! Switching again to the fast bridge I realized this one was obviously better, more natural with better nuances. So, looking at this experiment - did the fast diodes burn-in? Or, did the slow diodes burn-out? Or, something different happen to the circuit? Or maybe, I just got used to something better, and there is no comeback? Without switching back to standard diodes I would say the fast ones burnt-in but how to explain the standard bridge deterioration? I guess it sounds like it did, it's just me aware now this might be improved. *My point is that even exactly the same sounds might sound different to you in different conditions just due to the fact hearing is an adaptive sense.*


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## haloxt

That's my main excuse for listening to music 10 hours a day. In the name of science...

 But I should add some people here are in possession of brand new hdam's and already burned-in ones, if they have performed tests directly of the brand new one at 50, 100, 150... 500 hours or something like that then that would be a good experiment to see if the hdam's do have sonic changes at such long burn-in periods. And if people are ignoring majkel just because he says the hdam's aren't completely perfect, why do you think there are three to choose from?


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## mbd2884

Above


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## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And if people are ignoring majkel just because he says the hdam's aren't completely perfect, why do you think there are three to choose from?_

 

Hahaha! Great remark! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think the perfection has got many different faces...


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## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you saying it is difficult physically to change the fuse or hazardous meaning risky?

 Ok, it seems like the fuse is in the transformer - meaning inside the transformer chassis/enclosure.. (!!)

 So yes, its not an easy job.. but the grey resistors you are talking about are not fuse.. but what you say is correct, not an easy task to change fuse if needed..

 EDIT - More info on fuse of Compass if anyone is interested :

 It happens that if the fuse breaks then Compass itself has to be sent for repair : But, this will happen only if :

 1) AC Voltage spikes up by 50% and remains that way for 5mins or more
 1) AC Voltage spikes by 100%, then within 20 seconds the fuse will blow..

 So I guess the chances are very less.. still, it might help as an info since someone raised the issue.._

 

That does make it seem unlikely to be an issue, it still would have been nice if the fuse were more easily accessible (someone suggested having it on the back panel). Of course I have my Compass on conditioned power, just like my computer and my stereo, so that should cover it really.


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## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you saying it is difficult physically to change the fuse or hazardous meaning risky?

 Ok, it seems like the fuse is in the transformer - meaning inside the transformer chassis/enclosure.. (!!)

 So yes, its not an easy job.. but the grey resistors you are talking about are not fuse.. but what you say is correct, not an easy task to change fuse if needed..

 EDIT - More info on fuse of Compass if anyone is interested :

 It happens that if the fuse breaks then Compass itself has to be sent for repair : But, this will happen only if :

 1) AC Voltage spikes up by 50% and remains that way for 5mins or more
 1) AC Voltage spikes by 100%, then within 20 seconds the fuse will blow..

 So I guess the chances are very less.. still, it might help as an info since someone raised the issue.._

 

 Thanks for the info! Living and learning...


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## mbd2884

Above


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## mbd2884

Above


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## mbd2884

Will be condenscing all my impressions into one post, take a while to root through and find em


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## thelsuman

MBD2884- Regarding your comment about HP's being the likely bottleneck on SQ: Do you think Grado 325i's will be a good match for the Compass with Orchestral music? Maybe an unfair question if you haven't tested Grados on the Compass, but I am curious since I'll be using my Compass (once it arrives) with the 325i's.


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## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will be condenscing all my impressions into one post, take a while to root through and find em_

 

Yo MBD!
 Have you tried the HD650 on the Compass? I wonder how it sounds when you play rap, punk rock and classical music like Philip Glass.


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## winzzz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MBD2884- Regarding your comment about HP's being the likely bottleneck on SQ: Do you think Grado 325i's will be a good match for the Compass with Orchestral music? Maybe an unfair question if you haven't tested Grados on the Compass, but I am curious since I'll be using my Compass (once it arrives) with the 325i's._

 

x2...i'd like to know the answer too...does compass good match with grado cans ?


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## csroc

I have the HD650 but I do not listen to rap, punk rock or Philip Glass.


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## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the HD650 but I do not listen to rap, punk rock or Philip Glass._

 

I listen to other kinds of music aswell. How well do the HD 650 sound on the Compass?


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## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MBD2884- Regarding your comment about HP's being the likely bottleneck on SQ: Do you think Grado 325i's will be a good match for the Compass with Orchestral music? Maybe an unfair question if you haven't tested Grados on the Compass, but I am curious since I'll be using my Compass (once it arrives) with the 325i's._

 

I don't have Grados. I forget who does, but I do remember someone here saying they like the Grado 325i with the Sun v2 Amp, in fact two people. One who doesn't have Compass, but uses the Sun HDAM in another unit, the other liked the Sun v2 with Compass also.

 The HD650 in my sig, is what is says. Started the fund, only up to 200 USD saved for it, be about a month to two months once I figure out all the details of a DIY Sennheiser cable, I'll be damned to pay Zu Audio a single cent for their cable...(but may inquire about buying their connectors, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and well Stefan Audio Art or SAA are the biggest ****** in the universe for headphone cables IMO. And give money to Jen Labs, after they destroyed someone's genuine R10 headphones and then charged him for messing em up three times, even held them for ransom at one point... yeah I don't support scammer low lifes. Means no cable job from ALO or Lawton audio as they support low life scammers. I'd buy from Moon Audio or APureSound, but no funds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So it's DIY fun time!

 Ask Peete for the HD650 impressions. crosc has HD650 also.

 For the HD600 ask Currawong.

*All my impressions including pictures in this post now. These are impressions people, if you want comparisons to other DAC/Amps you will have to read Peete's, his is by far the most convincing for comparisons I think, his arsenal of Audio gear is impressive.*

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5442981-post3016.html


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## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listen to other kinds of music aswell. How well do the HD 650 sound on the Compass?_

 

I think it sounds fantastic. The Compass has plenty of output power to get the HD650s to reproduce dynamics and details extremely well. There is great bass weight and heft but it's not overdone, rather just right. Quick, tight basslines are reproduced with aplomb. The 650s on the Compass have a well defined although not huge soundstage (the 650s don't have a huge soundstage anyway, especially not compared to my AD900s). Overall everything is very clear and well defined, I don't notice anything that gets lost in the amplification such as lost detail or separation of notes or instruments. For what I listen to it is very good. If you want to see some of what I listen to click here. Either of my headphones with the Compass are unforgiving of bad recordings although I feel the HD650 makes them a bit more enjoyable since it doesn't have as forward a presentation as the AD900s. Mostly though I can't listen to poorly recorded music, it just bugs me too much.

 The Compass was developed with the 650s in mind and I believe it shows because it offers very good performance with them.


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## punk_guy182

csroc: I listen to Godspeed You Black Emperor! also.

 What albums do you have and have you tried? Does it sound good with the HD560 and the Compass?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The HD650 in my sig, is what is says. Started the fund, only up to 200 USD saved for it, be about a month to two months once I figure out all the details of a DIY Sennheiser cable, I'll be damned to pay Zu Audio a single cent for their cable...and well Stefan Audio Art of SAA are the biggest ****** in the universe for headphone cables IMO. And give money to Jen Labs, after they destroyed someone's genuine R10 headphones and then charged him for messing em up three times, even held them for ransom at one point... yeah I don't support scammer low lifes. So it's DIY fun time!_

 

Wishing you a lot of succes and patience with that. It doesn't look like an easy job.
 Please, when blaming all these cable manufacturers, don't forget to blame Sennheiser in the first place for putting those stupid plastic microconnector thingies on their cables in the first place.

 Oh, and I'm that Compass tester with 325is. I'll see if I can try them later with big orchestral stuff (Mahler? Shostakovich?). Interesting, I don't think I've ever done that before. I'm not expecting a comfortable experience.


----------



## HammerSandwich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And is it really that relevant in the end what the testers preferred?_

 

Not in the least; as you point out, only I can know my own preferences. The reviewers' job is to describe the differences they hear as accurately as possible. When multiple reviewers report similar audible changes between, e.g., Earth & Moon, then we are getting somewhere!


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## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wishing you a lot of succes and patience with that. It doesn't look like an easy job.
 Please, when blaming all these cable manufacturers, don't forget to blame Sennheiser in the first place for putting those stupid plastic microconnector thingies on their cables in the first place.

 Oh, and I'm that Compass tester with 325is. I'll see if I can try them later with big orchestral stuff (Mahler? Shostakovich?). Interesting, I don't think I've ever done that before. I'm not expecting a comfortable experience._

 

Yeah I think it will easily be at least 2-3 weeks of solid research before doing it after getting funds.


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## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The HD650 in my sig, is what is says. Started the fund...._

 

J&R is selling the HD650 for $319 w/ free shipping:
Sennheiser HD650 Stereo Headphone in Corded Headphones at JR.com


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## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That does make it seem unlikely to be an issue, it still would have been nice if the fuse were more easily accessible (someone suggested having it on the back panel). Of course I have my Compass on conditioned power, just like my computer and my stereo, so that should cover it really._

 

In fact I was a little taken aback myself, I have my Compass directly on the wall AC socket and voltage fluctuation can be an issue in this part of the world - and also with many including myself running compass 24/7, kind of made me a little nervous, so I wrote back to him for further details.

 Well, according to him there is nothing to worry at all, he has been using and still uses the same technology for all his gears - from entry level to high ends.
 These fuses (actually inbuilt in the transformer itself) are are much costlier than normal transformer, and apart from detecting the load of AC current, it also keeps a check on the temperature of the transformer itself - he also says it improves overall SQ with many locals buying his transformers and replacing them with their costlier transformers.

 Anyway, the main thing being that ever since he has been using this technology(last 5 years) he has never had a single case where a gear came back because of fuse breakage or blowout..

 Its calmed my fears, so I thought I share this with everyone...


 To mbd : Thanks for your insights with the music, I have been hearing about George Winston from you for sometime and I think its time for me to get one of his discs - more like my type of music..


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## AustinIsWierd

Probably should be more conservative with a kid in college and the economy still on its downward trend, but I ordered one last night after too much wine. Celebrating the continuation of my job.

 I just started getting a little more into this hobby. Went from PX100 to ATH-AD700. Bought a Nuforce Icon Mobile instead of my work computer's internal sound. 

 Now, I need to start selling all of my unused equipment, so I can get some better headphones. The AD700's are fine, but I know there are better ones out there.

 Working with Kingwa has been nothing short of excellent. He actually sent back some money since shipping had gone down slightly. I tried to get him to keep the money, but he doesn't want to make profits on shipping


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## K3cT

I've been out of the loop lately as I've been busy with university exams but hell, this thread really has grown bloated. 

 Kingwa just e-mailed me about the existence of the new casing and whether I should wait for the new one to roll in or go ahead with the old version. Please advise me on what to do next, fellow Head-Fiers.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been out of the loop lately as I've been busy with university exams but hell, this thread really has grown bloated. 

 Kingwa just e-mailed me about the existence of the new casing and whether I should wait for the new one to roll in or go ahead with the old version. Please advise me on what to do next, fellow Head-Fiers._

 

You can see the new plates in the first page of this thread - that is what it will look like plus you have the extra upgrades like revised gain setting and SQ settings, preamp out and varous swtches at the back..

 With the old version I think Kingwa means the old plates but with the rest of the upgrades - If not but just the old version (totally), then I would wait for the upgraded version..


 To AustinIsWierd : Welcome to the Club !!..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been out of the loop lately as I've been busy with university exams but hell, this thread really has grown bloated. 

 Kingwa just e-mailed me about the existence of the new casing and whether I should wait for the new one to roll in or go ahead with the old version. Please advise me on what to do next, fellow Head-Fiers._

 

Terserah, they all sound the same.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It doesn't seem to matter much. Apparently Kingwa will sell only a handful more of the old-style faceplates, then switch to the new ones. That's basically only difference between them, just some position of the lettering, some words become symbols.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been out of the loop lately as I've been busy with university exams but hell, this thread really has grown bloated. 

 Kingwa just e-mailed me about the existence of the new casing and whether I should wait for the new one to roll in or go ahead with the old version. Please advise me on what to do next, fellow Head-Fiers._

 

As mentioned you're basically getting the same thing with V2a and V2b, just that V2b will have the different look on the front and rear and the lid silkscreening. If you don't want to wait just get one now!


 This thread has gotten big though, at least all stages of development of the Compass seem to be done now so that should die down.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks for the views mbd. That was fun to read. Gave me a nice break from my own dribblings on virtual paper. Well done and thanks for the review !

 Those that are asking about the 650's and Compass. My upcoming Part III is all done with the 650's and includes every genre that would be considered a core of the many splinters there are now.

 The synergy between the Compass and 650's is very very good. You certainly shouldn't think twice about the two not working well together. Another point to make is the entire chain is really the sum of all the parts and should be viewed as such. Rather than concentrating solely on the parts alone (although that is certainly how you build a system). Confusing ? Yes and that is one of major failings of main stream mags...they review individual pieces integrated into super systems rather than put together systems more in line with the piece they are reviewing. It's a tough challenge to do it that way and also understandable why it's not done that way.

 In any event the Compass scales very well I find (Part I and Part II) are a perfect example of that. I pretty much lucked out with synergy with the ref rig system.

 Give the Compass a better source it will reward you, give it a better a recording from that source it will reward you. I think for the money you can't get much better than Compass if at all (in it's price bracket obviously). That pretty much says it all. It'll make a great core for a modest system and will last many years of use in that system.

 Of course my views are my own and I do not have enough headphones for a broad evaluation but I do what I can with what I have on hand.

 Peete.

 PS: Maj + ignore filter = less BS to read.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The sound of the HDAMs go all over the place for the first 350 hours. At 220 hours or so, they lose a lot of treble for a while. It's so funny to read people writing about burn in not existing when you nail down the sound changes in these things to +/-10 hours just about._

 






 What's maddening is being told your imagining this....well for the record I have now imagined this with at least 10 modules and compared these findings with others who must have the same imagination as I have since their findings mirrored mine almost to the letter.

 Conclusion: It must be a world wide conspiracy of collective imagined impressions the likes of which is either A) the truth B) we all have the same imaginations C) someone without this imagination is full of crap D) the imagination of those imagining these changes must have imagined this entire thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 What's maddening is being told your imagining this....well for the record I have now imagined this with at least 10 modules and compared these findings with others who must have the same imagination as I have since their findings mirrored mine almost to the letter.

 Conclusion: It must be a world wide conspiracy of collective imagined impressions the likes of which is either A) the truth B) we all have the same imaginations C) someone without this imagination is full of crap D) the imagination of those imagining these changes must have imagined this entire thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Ditto! I'm burning in a New Moon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in KHA I.5 and right on cue around the 50 hour mark, the sound turns a big corner, fills out, extends, deepens, treble comes and goes, bass comes and goes over the next 50 hours ..... and so on. EVERY time I've burned one of these HDAMs from new, no matter which version. I fully understand that not everyone is attuned to some of the more subtle variations in electronic sound and respond instead to more overall shifts in frequency balance, warmth v coolness etc. During the decade and more of being deeply involved with an audio club I co-created with a couple of friends some years ago (yes, it's still going strong 20 years after it's creation), I have met people who would swear black and blue that they can't hear a jot of difference between electronics, speakers etc, leave their jaws open in astonishment at some of the blind demos
 that were arranged from time to time at club meetings. Listening is like anything else - singing, for instance - you get better with training and learning what to listen for. 
 Of course, one is still free to exclaim that it's all a load of bollocks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man


----------



## edselfordfong

I'm trying to convince my dad to get a compass to use with his mac. He's having trouble wrapping his head around computer audio.

 Has anyone specifically compared the following sources: a computer plus compass dac, a CD transport plus compass dac, and a traditional CD player? Forgive me if has been dealt with, but I don't remember that being done.

 On the MF v-dac thread, someone expressed disappointment that his computer plus v-dac didn't approach his "mid-level" cd player.

 Anyone have any impressions that would help my old man make up his mind about PC-fi? I think it would be helpful for others, since many will be using this with a pc and hoping to match a traditional cd setup.


----------



## bjorn

The home-page for Audio-GD hs been updated with some new info that seems to confirm what has been written in this forum;

*What's in the upgraded version:*
*Inc one allen key for users.*
*The Earth OPA is default.*
*Change the setup of "Neutral" and "Soft1 to Soft3" mode. Cancel the "Soft 3 " mode, add a "Bright" mode.*
*The pre-amp line out is default.*
*The gain will change to 9DB/15DB , users can change the gain with a switch on the back panel.*
*Based on the results of Carl's online poll, I think I will keep the Bypass (Super) button on the front panel, and the rest of the functions on the rear. But if customers make a special request to have other function (preamp or gain switch)and not bypass on the front panel, we will oblige at no extra cost, although we will need an extra week to process the order. *
*Now I plan to upgrade the RCA sockets on Compass. These sockets are our custom order and plate 24K gold. We wish to make Compass being the best buy gears in near price.*



*What's in the final version:*
*Final version re-design the panel and rear.*
*Design by Carl Smith from the USA with help from the Head-Fi community.*

*Final version execpt re-design the panel and rear, other all same with the upgrade version.*


 Finally this message is very interesting to;

*30 units upgrade plan to ship at the early of Mar. Now have pre-order 23 units.*


----------



## csommers

So there are 7 more spots left for an early March shipment?
 If so I think I'm going to jump on this


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csommers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So there are 7 more spots left for an early March shipment?
 If so I think I'm going to jump on this_

 

I've already ordered one a couple of weeks ago. I hope it is one of the 23...


----------



## haloxt

I'd like to know if people hear a big difference with a high quality cd transport too, if only to test the compass'es jitter reclocking. I've switched between my digital out from a normal player and my computer usb and the difference is extremely minor, while coax from my sound card to compass was noticeably worse.

 Then about the contrast of opinion of hdam burn-in, I personally don't care enough to find out if the hdam's majkel received already got hundreds of hours of burn-in, but audio-gd giving it burn-in to prepare it for immediate review isn't out of the realm of possibility. But go on insulting the poor Polish guy it's kind of funny.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've switched between my digital out from a normal player and my computer usb and the difference is extremely minor_

 

One of those things where you hear a difference but it's impossible to say which is better without intensive listening?


----------



## edselfordfong

jesus, sorry for the multi-post. Am at internet cafe.


----------



## haloxt

I switch between my computer and regular player every day to try to find a difference, and since (imo) the different ASIO software sound different (some better some worse than my mp3 player) I really just don't know :].

 The only thing I know for certain is that the selector knob can suffer a lot of abuse.


----------



## edselfordfong

doublepost


----------



## edselfordfong

embarrassing multipost


----------



## haloxt

ditto.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The better the source...the better the result the Compass will give you.

 I just said this on the previous page, but no matter. For 258US you aren't going to find anything better than the Compass in the DAC/Amp combo unit category.

 PC/MAC or traditional source all boils down to quality levels. Quality of the source itself (software/SC/ method of delivery/) and most of all the quality level of the music being listened to (MP3/Lossless/Red Book CD/).

 The digital output from "normal" low cost players is not very good compared to the average PC. That being said if you buy a very good CD player or Transport the likelihood is the traditional source will outperform the PC/MAC. It depends on the quality of the Transport obviously of which there are vast differences vs price level while the computer based version are all relatively low cost in comparison. Not always the case but then it depends on PC and transport chosen. Confused yet ? 

 Cost comes into play when making these decisions. The best combination that will give you the most from a low cost stand point is the computer transport IME thus far. It's pretty darn solid. Which means don't pair a 2-3K CDP witha 400US dac amp combo...it would sound really good I bet but makes no sense cost wise. It's somewhat relative. 

 My personal experiences reflect results from both types of source. In my system it's purpose built transport (Vanguard CDM12 Pro for 670US shipped) first and the PC as transport a very close second (TOSLink output from Auzen Prelude SC using ASIO/Media Monkey...thanks Mbd that Steinberg ASIO driver does sound better).

 The moral of this story is your dad will enjoy the experience from the MAC using the Compass +decent headphones much more than what he is using now (which I presume isn't an outboard DAC or amp ). The difference level in SQ is vast from that setup to a outboard one.

 Peete.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude what do you want me to say? I said you can tell a difference, but it's not a big enough difference to convince your dad if he should get a compass for his PC. I presume he has a high quality transport since you asked about that, and I don't have any high quality transport so I can't tell you the answer to that. I only answered 2/3 of your question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Just make sure to use optical or usb directly from the mac because whenever I use my sound card's optical outputs it messes everything up (but the funny special effects options I get make it sort of worth going through the sound card occasionally lol)._

 

sorry about the like quadruple post or whatever. I'm at an internet cafe. Yeah, you answered it the first time. Thanks, I think it'll help me make the argument.

 He has moon cd player and a rogue tube preamp, so that's getting into the cost range you're talking about peete. But you're right, I think he'll enjoy the compass/mac setup too.

 BTW, what about the $258 if you're just planning on using the DAC? I think you said that at this price, the compass DAC alone is competitive. He has an x-can v 3 headphone amp, and he's not sure if he'll keep it with his main rig or use it in his study with the computer. He thinks he should put the money into a dedicated DAC. I'm arguing that the compass will give him flexibility and that at that price it's hard to even find a dac that would beat it, even used. Am I right?

 IMO, it's a no brainer for my dad, especially because I'm going to give him 500 gig of flac files too, which will greatly expand his library.

 Thanks for the comments. Both of you made a lot of sense.


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry about the like quadruple post or whatever. I'm at an internet cafe. Yeah, you answered it the first time. Thanks, I think it'll help me make the argument.

 He has moon cd player and a rogue tube preamp, so that's getting into the cost range you're talking about peete. But you're right, I think he'll enjoy the compass/mac setup too.

*BTW, what about the $258 if you're just planning on using the DAC?* I think you said that at this price, the compass DAC alone is competitive. He has an x-can v 3 headphone amp, and he's not sure if he'll keep it with his main rig or use it in his study with the computer. He thinks he should put the money into a dedicated DAC. I'm arguing that the compass will give him flexibility and that at that price it's hard to even find a dac that would beat it, even used. Am I right?

 IMO, it's a no brainer for my dad, especially because I'm going to give him 500 gig of flac files too, which will greatly expand his library.

 Thanks for the comments. Both of you made a lot of sense._

 

I'd like to know about that as well, I know a dedicated DAC would be better, but does anyone have comparisons?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry about the like quadruple post or whatever. I'm at an internet cafe. Yeah, you answered it the first time. Thanks, I think it'll help me make the argument.

 He has moon cd player and a rogue tube preamp, so that's getting into the cost range you're talking about peete. But you're right, I think he'll enjoy the compass/mac setup too.

 BTW, what about the $258 if you're just planning on using the DAC? I think you said that at this price, the compass DAC alone is competitive. He has an x-can v 3 headphone amp, and he's not sure if he'll keep it with his main rig or use it in his study with the computer. He thinks he should put the money into a dedicated DAC. I'm arguing that the compass will give him flexibility and that at that price it's hard to even find a dac that would beat it, even used. Am I right?

 IMO, it's a no brainer for my dad, especially because I'm going to give him 500 gig of flac files too, which will greatly expand his library.

 Thanks for the comments. Both of you made a lot of sense._

 

Hmmm

 You know I'd be prepapred to say that yes at 258US the DAC alone is the equal or better of any other 300US and under DAC made right now. That excludes DIY of course which has different cost structures vs SQ entirely.

 At 400US that argument is an unknown. Until the Compass circulates to a wider audience and it gets compared to other DAC's in that range it's tough to say how it will do against them. I can say with a certain degree of conviction that its a very organic sounding DAC and lacks many of the annoying aspects that loads of cheap DAC's and their CDP brothers suffer from and that is the notion that you are indeed listening to digital rather than analog. There isn't a way to explain that in a single sentence. You either know what that means or you don't.

 The Compass DAC section vs my entire collection of DIY and tweaked gear came out on top overall which I wasn't expecting at all. Never the less if your dad wants a separate dac have him look at the Audio-gd line up first before going elsewhere for they represent IMO the best combination of value and technology used over the last 30 years in CD red book playback. The upcoming Ref 3 might be the perfect DAC for him but it's 700US and will likely be a 20% boost (just a guess) in overall SQ level over the Compass DAC. The cost vs SQ isn't linear in fashion. Another option might be the DAC 19SE at 450US...another Audo-gd DAC....simply saying I've not found the equal of these for the cost anywhere else (outside of DIY kits etc which do not count).

 Get your dad to give it a try. He or you can always sell it in 2 minutes or less on here so he has little to lose by trying it. Just keep in mind it'll need quite a while to mature before it gives you it's best despite recent posts to the contrary. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I predict that if he does try it...you'll have another Audio-gd convert on your hands in no time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## edselfordfong

hey csommers and anyone else curious about this, it's worth looking at the links that currawong has helpfully put on the very first post. Currawong and especially Sandchak discuss this. (But any more thoughts on the matter?)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to know if people hear a big difference with a high quality cd transport too, if only to test the compass'es jitter reclocking. I've switched between my digital out from a normal player and my computer usb and the difference is extremely minor, while coax from my sound card to compass was noticeably worse.

 Then about the contrast of opinion of hdam burn-in, I personally don't care enough to find out if the hdam's majkel received already got hundreds of hours of burn-in, but audio-gd giving it burn-in to prepare it for immediate review isn't out of the realm of possibility. But go on insulting the poor Polish guy it's kind of funny._

 

Poor Polish guy ?

 Sheesh....he's calling everyone that has exprienced the burn in process (with A-GD OPA's) idiot's with overactive imaginations....if anything he deserves the hard time he's getting for the responses he has written of late. 

 There is no way Audio-gd has time to burn in each and every OPA it makes...350 hours is a long time even if you run it 24/7. He got what we all get...fresh electronics. His descriptions of the SQ confirm that his modules are indeed going through the changes that they will go through during burn in. I know exactly what hours he has on his by those descriptions alone and can pin point with a fair degree of accuracy what hours he has on them using that experience.

 Many times he's been dealt with politely and nicely while the replies keep getting more insulting as time goes by. He's made his bed and now he has to lie in it. Poor Polish guy indeed. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey csommers and anyone else curious about this, it's worth looking at the links that currawong has helpfully put on the very first post. Currawong and especially Sandchak discuss this. (But any more thoughts on the matter?)_

 

Well considering the only people in the world right now with a Compass are the 18 testers (most of which are head fi members) where else will you get anything concrete on the Compass ?

 Peete.


----------



## majkel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I fully understand that not everyone is attuned to some of the more subtle variations in electronic sound and respond instead to more overall shifts in frequency balance, warmth v coolness etc. During the decade and more of being deeply involved with an audio club I co-created with a couple of friends some years ago (yes, it's still going strong 20 years after it's creation), I have met people who would swear black and blue that they can't hear a jot of difference between electronics, speakers etc, leave their jaws open in astonishment at some of the blind demos
 that were arranged from time to time at club meetings. Listening is like anything else - singing, for instance - you get better with training and learning what to listen for. _

 

OK, so if you're so talented this will be no problem for you to catch the details making the difference between the LME49860 and the OPA Moon. I'd love to read which delivers more nuances of the recorded music and how they appear. When you finish burning-in the OPA Moon, of course. BTW, does this burn-in process ever end? From my point of view - never. 
 BTW, what digital transport are you using? What interconnects for digital and analog? What amplification, speakers or headphones?

 Some more questions - not personal. Does it matter it's 350 not 349 hours? What about 340? If it's 326, am I a day before the big explosion? In which period the changes are fastest? 

 It looks like there is confusion between burn-in reports: somebody said the treble amount is changing while above in the citation it's been said it's nothing so obvious but very subtle nuances that you can realize only after 20 years of "co-creation".


----------



## Tyson

Ignorance can be cured, stupidity cannot.


----------



## csroc

This is why I don't care to get involved in these discussions... and if I do I am very careful about how I word what I am saying.

 Can we go back to arguing about face plates, polls, symbols and feature alignment?


----------



## Toe Tag

What about 12VDC battery power to power the Compass? 
 Can't get a cleaner power source.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

It was then the envious standard met the wakeful string.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Just email Kingwa directly audio-gd@vip.163.com and tell him what you want.

 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Poor Polish guy ?

 Sheesh....he's calling everyone that has exprienced the burn in process (with A-GD OPA's) idiot's with overactive imaginations....if anything he deserves the hard time he's getting for the responses he has written of late. 

 There is no way Audio-gd has time to burn in each and every OPA it makes...350 hours is a long time even if you run it 24/7. He got what we all get...fresh electronics. His descriptions of the SQ confirm that his modules are indeed going through the changes that they will go through during burn in. I know exactly what hours he has on his by those descriptions alone and can pin point with a fair degree of accuracy what hours he has on them using that experience.

 Many times he's been dealt with politely and nicely while the replies keep getting more insulting as time goes by. He's made his bed and now he has to lie in it. Poor Polish guy indeed. 

 Peete._

 

I just got a response from kingwa that all the hdam's are fresh. So I also mistakenly believed _all_ hdam's sent out by audio-gd had 100 hours on them.

 You shouldn't feel insulted, he's just someone who didn't notice long-term burn-in trying to figure out what you guys mean.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get your dad to give it a try. He or you can always sell it in 2 minutes or less on here so he has little to lose by trying it. Just keep in mind it'll need quite a while to mature before it gives you it's best despite recent posts to the contrary. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I predict that if he does try it...you'll have another Audio-gd convert on your hands in no time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Thanks a lot Peete. Very helpful comments.

 Yeah, I'm sure my dad will be satisfied with the compass or the higher end audio-gd stuff if I can convince him. I think he feels like computer audio is an affront to all the money he's sunk on his traditional setup, so is reluctant to spend on it. I'm like, you put +/- $3k into your CDP and preamp, just put $500 into a DAC, listen to all my flacs in your study, and stop complaining to me about how your wife won't let you listen to your open HD-650s in the living room because she's reading. But he doesn't see it that way. Of course, he's looking at the big losses in his retirement savings over the past year and getting reluctant to spend. I guess that's reasonable.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well considering the only people in the world right now with a Compass are the 18 testers (most of which are head fi members) where else will you get anything concrete on the Compass ?

 Peete._

 

nowhere else, obviously. Just making the point that it was there at all, since the topic had come up again. Trying to bring those earlier points into the conversation, so they don't get buried.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, so if you're so talented this will be no problem for you to catch the details making the difference between the LME49860 and the OPA Moon. I'd love to read which delivers more nuances of the recorded music and how they appear. When you finish burning-in the OPA Moon, of course. BTW, does this burn-in process ever end? From my point of view - never. 
 BTW, what digital transport are you using? What interconnects for digital and analog? What amplification, speakers or headphones?

 Some more questions - not personal. Does it matter it's 350 not 349 hours? What about 340? If it's 326, am I a day before the big explosion? In which period the changes are fastest? 

 It looks like there is confusion between burn-in reports: somebody said the treble amount is changing while above in the citation it's been said it's nothing so obvious but very subtle nuances that you can realize only after 20 years of "co-creation"._

 

You know, chief... I didn't believe in the whole burn-in thing. Not at all. I could feel the difference between hot and cold, but not between the OPA module after a couple of hours and a couple of thousand. But, after receiving a fresh Earth module with my Compass, and owning one with thousands of hours use...

 Brand new Earth vs well-used Earth - the difference is utterly, mind-bogglingly staggering. I have _NEVER_ heard such a difference between a new and used silicon opamp.

 At 50 hours, the difference is still extremely noticeable. Nowhere near as stark as when factory fresh, but it is there and easily identifiable when switching the 2 units.

 At 150 hours, the difference isn't so noticeable, but it is still obviously there when paying little more than passing attention.

 After this time, the differences between the two become harder and harder to find. I couldn't tell you at what point they fully mature, and change no more, but there is an absolute difference.

 I was a sceptic - I'm a physics kinda guy. I've spent my life messing with engines, where mechanical wear can make a huge difference, and where how the engine is initially run-up can make a huge difference throughout it's life. I've also worked with computers most of my life, and hugely dabbled with overclocking, where I never, ever found any difference between the ability to push a fresh CPU and the same CPU when used for several months. But these modules definitely change over time... spend the few $ they cost and get a fresh one. It'll be a small price to pay to lose your reputation on here, after realising the truth. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks sandchak. I feel that came out better than I could have hoped. 

 After some back-and-forth with Kingwa this is the final look.






 You'll notice the more obscure symbols are back to text. The symbols that remain I shrank a bit (2mm smaller in their largest dimension).

 Also here is the label for under the lid which I modified based on Joeoboes feedback (I went way overboard on the original one!)_

 

/me is extremely happy with that. It's all good, though my blessing is of little importance in the grand scheme of things. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a response from kingwa that all the hdam's are fresh. So I also mistakenly believed all hdam's sent out by audio-gd had 100 hours on them.

 You shouldn't feel insulted, he's just someone who didn't notice long-term burn-in trying to figure out what you guys mean._

 

I've said my piece. I stand by the comments.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks a lot Peete. Very helpful comments.

 Yeah, I'm sure my dad will be satisfied with the compass or the higher end audio-gd stuff if I can convince him. I think he feels like computer audio is an affront to all the money he's sunk on his traditional setup, so is reluctant to spend on it. I'm like, you put +/- $3k into your CDP and preamp, just put $500 into a DAC, listen to all my flacs in your study, and stop complaining to me about how your wife won't let you listen to your open HD-650s in the living room because she's reading. But he doesn't see it that way. Of course, he's looking at the big losses in his retirement savings over the past year and getting reluctant to spend. I guess that's reasonable._

 

You are welcome. 

 Everyone is spooked by the goings on of late. Myself included. This is much worse than 1982's meltdown.

 That being said the Compass price tag is even better considering the cost of regular audio gear....

 Always a bright side it seems 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nowhere else, obviously. Just making the point that it was there at all, since the topic had come up again. Trying to bring those earlier points into the conversation, so they don't get buried._

 


 It struck me as a really curious question to ask but I wasn't trying to be mean with the answer I gave, just pragmatic.

 Peete.


----------



## punk_guy182

Can someone quickly remind me what the bypass (Super) feature is for?
 I understand the preamp button on the back is to connect a power amp to the Compass and control the volume via the Compass.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone quickly remind me what the bypass (Super) feature is for?
 I understand the preamp button on the back is to connect a power amp to the Compass and control the volume via the Compass._

 

It takes the amp circuitry out of the loop turning it into a DAC only. 

 The analog line in requires the engagement of the Super switch to function properly. I tried it with a analog front end (TT and tube phono stage) with really good results from the experience.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Another neat but odd combination I'm currently trying out is the Compass in pre mode feeding the DIY Jaycar amp directly (bypassing the Adcom pre front end). 

 Quite good thus far although the Compass amp is better by a small amount which is good company indeed. The DIY Jaycar is highly thought of around here and at the Rock Grotto.

 Peete.


----------



## Toe Tag

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was a sceptic - I'm a physics kinda guy. I've spent my life messing with engines, where mechanical wear can make a huge difference, and where how the engine is initially run-up can make a huge difference throughout it's life. I've also worked with computers most of my life, and hugely dabbled with overclocking, where I never, ever found any difference between the ability to push a fresh CPU and the same CPU when used for several months. But these modules definitely change over time... spend the few $ they cost and get a fresh one. It'll be a small price to pay to lose your reputation on here, after realising the truth. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ~Phewl._

 

Would it be blasphemy to ask: what is the physics/ electronics reason these modules change over time? and if they need 300 hours to get "ripe"... do they get "over ripe" after 1000 hours, or do they change only for 300 hours then permanantly stop changing right at the point when they sound best? I mean are there instruments printing out response graphs before and after that show the difference?

 I am more accepting of the idea that a mechanical device like a speaker cone would change over time (though again why doesn't that eventually get "over ripe" and start to sound worse.) Actually I would be more open to a psycho-acoustic explanation, like the hearing nerves in your brain adapt to a particular frequency spectrum over the course of a few hundred hours.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The analog line in requires the engagement of the Super switch to function properly. I tried it with a analog front end (TT and tube phono stage) with really good results from the experience.
 Peete._

 

What do you mean by the analog line in?
 What is TT and tube phono stage?


----------



## yasker

Hi, one quick question

 Have anyone compared Compass with minidac or da10 or dac1/dac1u? It's a pretty long thread, I searched, but seems no result.

 OK, I know the three above is much more expensive, but I'd like to see Compass's potential. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Line in...from a analog source...like a tape deck output or a turntable phono stage's L and R outputs.

 TT and Phono Stage; TurnTable and the tube phono stage is the part that takes the very small voltages from the TT cartridge as it plays a record and amplifies those low voltages (5mV) into something a line level ( 2V) input can amplify properly. 

 The LP's themselves are EQ'd and cut with what's called an RIAA standard EQ curve. 

 Google the terms and have a look although it gets rather technical in nature. A turntable has to have this amp stage in order to function properly. Most vintage gear has a phono input in the preamp stages...look on the back of old preamps and receivers you'll see it marked phono input and there will be 2 RCA jacks and ground post. The TT has 2 RCA jacks and ground wire that hooks up to that.

 Tube means it's valve/tube based stage rather than solid state.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yasker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, one quick question

 Have anyone compared Compass with minidac or da10 or dac1/dac1u? It's a pretty long thread, I searched, but seems no result.

 OK, I know the three above is much more expensive, but I'd like to see Compass's potential. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!_

 

No, this is a prototype that is going into production very shortly...there are only 18 units in the field and unless anyone has those DAC's on hand you won't find any comparisons to read. 

 Peete.


----------



## punk_guy182

So the super switch can convert either the compass in Dac/headamp, Dac or headamp mode?
 What if I want to use it either in Dac, DAC/headamp or DAC/Preamp modes. Can I ask Kingwa to put a single switch on the front panel to select either of the three desired modes? Which one would that be, Spuer or preamp?
 I won't need the line in


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the super switch can convert either the compass in Dac/headamp, Dac or headamp mode?
 What if I want to use it either in Dac, DAC/headamp or DAC/Preamp modes. Can I ask Kingwa to put a single switch on the front panel to select either of the three desired modes? Which one would that be, Spuer or preamp?
 I won't need the line in_

 

As I understand it, there are 3 switches on the Compass, one on front and two on back. Kingwa will wire whatever you like to the front switch by special request. The default front switch is the bypass/line in switch.


----------



## dBs

Nice review MBD, thank you for posting it! Im really glad to hear your review of trance music on the Compass was so favorable.

 No official word so far on whether it is actually 7 (if I remember correctly) units left up for grabs before the next batch?

 I believe it was Toe who asked why burn in is possible. Search the thread, I had a pretty long description into how it is possible based upon what I have learned from my analog electronics and electromagnetics classes. Ill see if I can find it to direct link it for you.

 EDIT: Hahaha, wow it was all the way back on page 51 XD http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5346875-post765.html


----------



## Toe Tag

dBs thanks for that! But to continue my blasphemy, ok we have a reason they sweeten up and "ripen" over time... but since they do change why don't they keep changing indefinitely and go (sonically) rotten over time?

 Yes, 7 left up for grabs in the first batch of Compass mk.II (somebody give it a better name before that sticks)
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/des...ml#post5444262 Furthermore, way back they noted they had to offload 80 old-style faceplates, 40 to Asia market, 40 to International.

 Also note in that post, King-wa sensibly chose to put their best foot forward, use all the skilled opinions in this thread, and make the Earth the default OPA. "Hear me now, believe me later". 

 Now, about adding the ability to power the Compass from a 12V DC car battery... (actually a deep cycle marine battery may be better) like people do with their T-amps... I'd rather spend $60 on that than an expensive mains cable that can't do anything about with the crazy noise from the wall socket, not to mention the fluctuations in voltage.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, so if you're so talented this will be no problem for you to catch the details making the difference between the LME49860 and the OPA Moon. I'd love to read which delivers more nuances of the recorded music and how they appear. When you finish burning-in the OPA Moon, of course. BTW, does this burn-in process ever end? From my point of view - never. 
 BTW, what digital transport are you using? What interconnects for digital and analog? What amplification, speakers or headphones?

 Some more questions - not personal. Does it matter it's 350 not 349 hours? What about 340? If it's 326, am I a day before the big explosion? In which period the changes are fastest? 

 It looks like there is confusion between burn-in reports: somebody said the treble amount is changing while above in the citation it's been said it's nothing so obvious but very subtle nuances that you can realize only after 20 years of "co-creation"._

 

Mmm, while I'm not interested in debates for the sake of it, I'll address a couple of fair points here and leave it alone. 
 I don't have an LME49860 for comparison; only LT1028s, OPA2134, OPA2604, OPA627s, LT1057, NE5532s and LT1364s to compare with the OPA EARTH, SUN and MOON. OPA's Earth and Moon thrash all of the above op-amps comprehensively in sound stage, openness, extension top and bottom, dynamic range and dynamic shadings, stage height, treble naturalness, midrange tangibility and overall cohesion and integration of the musical experience. I haven't had enough experience with OPA Sun, using a VI Sun for only a short time, though even barely burned in it ran rings around most of the other op-amps in dynamics, if not in frequency balance. 
 In both of my KHA amps, I have popped various op-amps back in to compare notes and although I can get some lovely sounds out of a couple of them, the experience is significantly diluted in comparison to the HDAMs. End of story, as far as the op-amps I have on hand. I AM interested in sampling an LM4562 - possibly even the HA version - that a number of folks in the Rock Grotto site are using, just out of interest and for my own information. 

 The gear I'm using is in my personal information section, however for your information: Head Fi gear starts with an Apple G4 iBook using USB out to a fully Frankied Zero with a BA mod OPA Earth HDAM in the DAC - the power cable to the amp is disconnected, leaving a cleaner and complete power supply to the DAC alone, UNLESS I use the pre-out function to KHA II, in which case it's plugged back in - White Zombie Audio pure solid silver cables to the Plinius IIC pre-amp (which has a new and burned in power supply with PIO bypass caps and Black Gate bypass caps everywhere else in the circuit), then Neotech ICs to KHA II using OPA Moon and the rest of the circuit is fully upgraded using Nichicon Muse caps, Black Gates, Dale resistors and PIO output caps in the Zobel network. KHA is fed by an audio-gd power supply that is capable of significant grunt and provides a fully adjustable and sublimely clean SOTA power supply. I sometimes use a short length of pure silver ribbon cable from Pre to amp, they are extremely revealing and incredibly transparent. 
 Signal exits KHA II into Senn 650s and sometimes Denon AH-D1000s, though the Denons are mostly used with a Corda 2Move DAC/amp and Apple 120G iPod using Corda's iPod dock connection to amp cable. 

 Nope, 249 hours or 250, make no difference, try 250 and 300 though and you might hear/find some interesting changes. The treble comes and goes right through from the 30 hour mark to 300 and more before settling, so does the bass. Midrange is grainy and edgy through to the 100 hour plus mark and smoothes gradually from then on, though there are periods where the graininess returns for a time. This happens every single time with all of them, in my experience. See PP's reply a couple of pages ago for similar comments. 
 I HAVE had "the day before the big explosion", as you put it, when I ran in my first Earth VI HDAM I just happened to be listening and enjoying KHA I.5 at about the 45 hour mark, left it for the night, came back to it the next day after a few hours of warm up and was shocked to hear what sounded like a subwoofer had been switched on in the amp and the top end had extended noticeably, I wrote about it in the Zero thread sometime last year. Other times of similar experience have been numerous and applied equally to the running of the Plinius IIC, KHA I.5, KHA II, audio-gd PS, numerous HDAMs and the upgrades to my Yamaha AX 900 amp I use in the main system. Source for that one is a Yamaha CDX 1110 CD player, using MIT AVT2 Digital coax cable to Frankie; a Marantz DV6600 is used as a transport occasionally, though it is not as transparent as the Yam or the iBook, the iBook being the most transparent of them all. The Yam is very musical and fluid though, like Frankie.
 After 300 hours or so I don't exactly take notes to hear subtle difference, I am far more interested in enjoying the music! In fact well before that time, it IS after all why I buy the gear, I thoroughly enjoy my listening times! 

 To your last comments, It may sound confusing because people are possibly describing different stages of the burn-in process. For instance, with my IIC pre-amp the new PS caps and the Black Gates took 150 hours or so before any major changes occurred, it remained somewhat grainy and upper-mid edgy with rolled top end up until then. The opening of the treble was a revelation to hear and took another 100+ hours to even remotely approach where it is now; extremely clean, open, extended and transparent. Bass dynamics went through a similar, if slightly less extended, process. So far, 626 hours later, it sounds a little smoother through both the Head Fi gear and the main system today, than it did 50 hours ago, even less edge, cleanly effortless. I would consider it pretty much cooked .... but you never know ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 An HDAM changes a lot at the 50, 100 and 150 hour mark, but is much more subtle in between and after those times. Whereas Frankie had yet another kick at the 350 and 400 hour marks. The PIOs and BG caps take a long time to form. 

 This is not intended to show how 'talented' I am, I couldn't give a toss, mate, and it's unlikely I'll repeat any of this in this thread, it's simply my experience. Maybe growing up in a family of musicians makes a difference and maybe it doesn't, I give plenty of credit to a couple of wonderful teachers on how to listen to music, when I was some 25+ years younger. 

 To the dude who's dad wants to use a Mac as a source, mine is a terrific and transparently musical source, although the Yam transport does have a little more bottom end heft, if not the transparency and sheer speed. I love it's openness in my main system. 
 Your dad will have a hoot, mate! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man


----------



## shootermcgaven2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice review MBD, thank you for posting it! Im really glad to hear your review of trance music on the Compass was so favorable._

 

love trance music. will the compas DAC run pc speakers in stereo and 5.1?


----------



## shootermcgaven2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I'm going to have to write up a Compass FAQ. I can't believe we're on 133 pages in this thread already._

 

looking forward to seeing this


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toe Tag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dBs thanks for that! But to continue my blasphemy, ok we have a reason they sweeten up and "ripen" over time... but since they do change why don't they keep changing indefinitely and go (sonically) rotten over time?_

 

Usually when a transistor goes "rotten" it just fails outright, POOF! dead. Some would and have argued that the sound is constantly changing over time. As to be expected though, there is an initial period of significant change as the electrons are fresh and havent been electrified since their chemical tampering occurred. So initially, as one would expect, there is significant changes. Just as one would expect though, over time these changes slow down and the sound changes occur less significantly until finally...POOF!

 Think of it like taking a bottle of water and light particulate, say fine grain sand, and shaking it up. The water becomes agitated and cloudy, but slowly the sand settles and slowly the water clears. The more pronounced change in clarity occurs early on and tapers off as time progresses.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shootermcgaven2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_love trance music. will the compas DAC run pc speakers in stereo and 5.1?_

 

Not 5.1 as that requires 3 separate inputs (rear pair, front pair, and center & sub). Compass functions only in stereo...or mono if you really wanted.

 BTW, I just placed my order =D I wasnt going to wait until the last 7 were snatched up! Waiting on a reply to get the necessary steps. Decided to not go for the power cable or RCA cables. College budget and spending $14 more once Im graduated is less impacting than if I spent the $40 now. I expect Ill be happy enough with this unit to not feel the urge to get the MKIII until after I graduate in May so no RCA necessary.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shootermcgaven2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_looking forward to seeing this_

 

There is already a Shotgun FAQ added by Curra on the 20th Feb, you can have a look on the first page of this thread..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Another excellent post from S-Man. 

 Peete.


----------



## ExtraNice

what methods can we pay buy?

 I know he's got a few bank accounts but I'm confused... can you only direct transfer money into them?

 Is there a way I could pay by credit card without having to use pay-pal? If I do use pay-pal, am I charged a fee for buying using pay-pal, or only if I am receiving money using pay pal?

 Woah, that came out in a rush.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what methods can we pay buy?

 I know he's got a few bank accounts but I'm confused... can you only direct transfer money into them?

 Is there a way I could pay by credit card without having to use pay-pal? If I do use pay-pal, am I charged a fee for buying using pay-pal, or only if I am receiving money using pay pal?

 Woah, that came out in a rush._

 

Most people pay Kingwa by Paypal. This does mean an extra charge of 4% on the total price (your cost). There are other ways of getting the money to Kingwa, but you would do best to discuss these with him yourself. Most other options for money transfer do seem even more expensive than Paypal though.


----------



## dBs

I would say to just email and see what options are available. I know that paypal is the fastest way and they accept Western Union.
ºÎÇì»ªÔ*´´ÒôÏì

 Not the most clear write up but email can clarify =D


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ To the dude who's dad wants to use a Mac as a source, mine is a terrific and transparently musical source, although the Yam transport does have a little more bottom end heft, if not the transparency and sheer speed. I love it's openness in my main system. 
 Your dad will have a hoot, mate! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man_

 

yeah, interesting post, S-man.

 To clarify, you're using a digital out on the Yamaha to the modded Zero, right, not the Yam's DAC?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MBD2884- Regarding your comment about HP's being the likely bottleneck on SQ: Do you think Grado 325i's will be a good match for the Compass with Orchestral music? Maybe an unfair question if you haven't tested Grados on the Compass, but I am curious since I'll be using my Compass (once it arrives) with the 325i's._

 

I've just listened to Shostakovich 4th symphony (Symphieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks/Mariss Jansons(EMI)) through the Compass with my Grado SR-325i's. It's quite fascinating actually. You'll love the pinpoint clarity this brings, very detailed and fun. But the weird things is how all this takes place in a soundstage that's completely two-dimensional. It's very hard to relate this to how an orchestra playing this would sound in the concert hall. Nothing to do with the Compass in this case, I'm afraid. It's the Grado's. They do a lot of things well, but soundstage is not one of them. If you'll be listening to a lot of orchestral music, it might be time to start thinking about different headphones. AKGs or Sennheisers, for example.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah, interesting post, S-man.

 To clarify, you're using a digital out on the Yamaha to the modded Zero, right, not the Yam's DAC?_

 

Exactly, dig out from the MIT coax into Frankie and I have to tell ya, tonight the kit is really singing! The New Moon in KHA I.5 is at the 70 hour mark or so and sounds just wonderful! Dave Matthews Band on the Stand Up album is really cooking on gas and I'm really enjoying even the songs I didn't used to listen to much. So rhythmic and taut with such solid images, might be an extended listening sesh tonight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...... after another ep of Battlestar Galactica, series 4, which I've only just got hold of. I've actually not heard the Yam CDX 1110 sound so good through the Senns for some time, it may be that the newly run in Van den Hul D501 cable I'm using from the Plinius IIC pre-amp to KHA I.5 is a very good match too, I didn't think much of it when it was new and it sounds very different now. Great rhythm. Taut. Smooth. Transparent. S-Man


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indie_big_wig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to this thread does seem to be missing one important discussion point that seems to be the flavour of the month on head-fi, "what does the compass sound like with the hd0800's?" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I'll let you know after my pair arrives. But I'm betting that the limits of their capability will far exceed what the Compass is capable of.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *winzzz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2...i'd like to know the answer too...does compass good match with grado cans ?_

 

This Sunday I'm going to try a pair of HF1s, which'll be interesting.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yasker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, one quick question

 Have anyone compared Compass with minidac or da10 or dac1/dac1u? It's a pretty long thread, I searched, but seems no result._

 

Yes. I did last Sunday. 

 I've updated the first post as well with that link and mbd2884's review.


----------



## mbd2884

For those wondering: HD650 DIY Cable = $150 Fund needed

 Why is it considered difficult? = Don't melt or mess up the Sennheiser Connectors, be quick. They are $30 each, not cheap mess ups!

 Senn Rhodium plated Connectors/Heat Shrinkwrap/Furutech FP-704
 - Can get from Moon Audio for $60

 Homegrown Audio 4 Strand Pure Silver Braided Wire w/ Teflon Dielectrics - 7 FT (6Ft Cable, 1 Ft to chop up) = $84
 Decided to not merge the ground wire, just use 4 wires. Will be fun to solder two wires to the ridiculous Furutech plug ground. 

 TechFlex from Parts Express = > $10

 So for $150 you can make an awesome cable, save over $100, don't support scammers (Jen Labs and their supporters), delusional ******* with their imaginary benefits to their wires (SAA if you couldn't guess), plus the glory of saying "I OWN, I ******** OWN!"

 Either way, overall, I don't think this should be a difficult project, just read up and tutorials and the DIY cable threads before destroying everything. Yes will be my first, and ONLY DIY cable for the HD650, One Try, then drop to knees, fists up over head and scream I ******** OWN!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those wondering: HD650 DIY Cable = $150 Fund needed_

 

One honest question to you and knowledgeable folks in the forum.. is USD150 cable worth a HP costing say USD300, I mean is there justified perceivable difference??.. please know that I am a strong believer of cables bringing about changes in a gear, but here we are talking about nearly 50% of the HP cost and also a DIY project..


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know I'd be prepapred to say that yes at 258US the DAC alone is the equal or better of any other 300US and under DAC made right now. That excludes DIY of course which has different cost structures vs SQ entirely._

 

So for 300 USD, what would be a comparable DIY option?


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One honest question to you and knowledgeable folks in the forum.. is USD150 cable worth a HP costing say USD300, I mean is there justified perceivable difference??.. please know that I am a strong believer of cables bringing about changes in a gear, but here we are talking about nearly 50% of the HP cost and also a DIY project.._

 

Honestly, I don't think cables will make any difference at all. Everytime UnkleErik tells some new guy, get the unjustifiably expensive equinox cables from the biggest ******* of cables in the universe, SAA, I crack up laughing. But then if the new guy does buy them, then I'll feel sad. 

 C'mon seriously, UnkleErik really thinks Sennheiser would sell their, for a long time, BEST headphone with cables that cause it to have veil? That's just asinine thinking. Then think about it, signal is going to travel differently from their OFC cable from Sennheiser's OFC cable. From a Scientific and business perspective, makes no sense at all.

 HD650 be the perfect headphones for me to have some fun with DIY cable, its not completely easy to do, yet easy enough to do. And at this point in my life, HD650 will be the flagship headphones for me, I don't like closed which leaves out almost all the AT, JVC and Denon top of the line, and have no intention of buying the HD800. And from my research so far, to do a DIY cable that will be worthwhile is really expensive, unless I decide to use Canare Quad cable, but I'm not sure I want to do that, will have to think more about it.

 The AD900 with it being single ended is too tough to do, unless I drill a hole in the other driver housing, which I don't want to do, I want to keep it single ended.

 Plus the new cable with the TechFlex and all should look awesome.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One honest question to you and knowledgeable folks in the forum.. is USD150 cable worth a HP costing say USD300, I mean is there justified perceivable difference??.. please know that I am a strong believer of cables bringing about changes in a gear, but here we are talking about nearly 50% of the HP cost and also a DIY project.._

 

If you do it right, most definitely. Buying an aftermarket cable, you're paying for the workmanship. I might have to give this a go myself to see how it compares with the Zu cable I have.


----------



## haloxt

I did a lot of A/B'ing with a moon-audio blue dragon detachable ultrasone cable and my HFI-2200's stock 15 ft. cable (10 ft. for proline detachable) and the difference is very noticeable. And you can bet I did a lot of A/B'ing because the cable cost me 30% more than my headphones and if they didn't produce better sound I'd be asking for a refund.


----------



## sandchak

Thanks Curra, Mbd and Haloxt for your insights on HP cables, I am a strong believer of cables making a difference, specially signal cables, I have personally experienced speaker and rca cables make a difference, although in my way I also found a comparatively cheaper cable might suit your tastes more than a costlier cable. I consider the HP cables like speaker cables, so most definitely I believe they make a difference, and like Curra said, buying after market cables you pay for the workmanship, but if Mbd can get it done himself, I guess its the same results with better feelings..
 My Final thoughts after reading what you folks have written, is if USD150 can bring the best out of a USD300 headphones, then its worth a try.. makes sense to me.. but me being in the early stages in the world of headphones, I think I would keep the extra bucks on cables aside and invest on another hardware or Headphones.. but thats me in my situation.


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Curra, Mbd and Haloxt for your insights on HP cables, I am a strong believer of cables making a difference, specially signal cables, I have personally experienced speaker and rca cables make a difference, although in my way I also found a comparatively cheaper cable might suit your tastes more than a costlier cable. I consider the HP cables like speaker cables, so most definitely I believe they make a difference, and like Curra said, buying after market cables you pay for the workmanship, but if Mbd can get it done himself, I guess its the same results with better feelings..
 My Final thoughts after reading what you folks have written, is if USD150 can bring the best out of a USD300 headphones, then its worth a try.. makes sense to me.. but me being in the early stages in the world of headphones, *I think I would keep the extra bucks on cables aside and invest on another hardware or Headphones.. but thats me in my situation.*_

 

Cables should be one of the last upgrades you make. It doesn't make sense having a set of $350 HP w/ $300 cables and a $150 dac/amp combo


----------



## haloxt

One day a headphone manufacturer will make headphones that don't benefit from recabling. Maybe Kingwa will save us from aftermarket cables once he gets into the headphone manufacturing business 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One day a headphone manufacturer will make headphones that don't benefit from recabling. Maybe Kingwa will save us from aftermarket cables once he gets into the headphone manufacturing business 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Audio-gd headphones! (I would buy 'em. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## D.C.

You guys are killin my wallet. I didn't get my HD650 and I am already looking for a replacement cable lol. 
 That Blue Dragon from moon audio looks very tempting on ebay.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys are killin my wallet. I didn't get my HD650 and I am already looking for a replacement cable lol. 
 That Blue Dragon from moon audio looks very tempting on ebay._

 

I don't know, the stock cable can't be _that_ bad. There must be a reason people are buying the HD650 cable for their HD600 'phones.


----------



## sandchak

WOW, is this the new Head-fi design.. or is it that my comp just got better !!


----------



## haloxt

The forum is burning in for the worse.

 I hope no one decides to get an aftermarket cable after this, I think you should only consider it if you are already happy with the sound of an already burned-in headphone


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW, is this the new Head-fi design.. or is it that my comp just got better !!_

 







I actually hadn't noticed that until you mentioned it, but the site does look different, in a good way!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csommers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





I actually hadn't noticed that until you mentioned it, but the site does look different, in a good way!_

 

Yeah, like the new Compass eh ! too bad they didn't call for a poll..


----------



## Drosera

Hey, give the old one back! We had just really warmed to it's quirky and badly aligned fonts! (Or something...)


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, give the old one back! We had just really warmed to it's quirky and badly aligned fonts! (Or something...)_

 

well you are losing 2 to 1 !!.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. me thinks it looks really neat, like each on their own letter heads !!.. Curra's avaatar looks huge and blends nicely with the background too..


----------



## D.C.

the new Compass is gonna look sexy. Cant wait to see it for real...hopefully next month.


----------



## majkel

sennsay, thank you for your comprehensive answer! As all guys can realize - while having different opinions there are guys in this forum able to discuss with me without looking for economical end geographical issues because I think what I think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will be observing the OPA Sun v.2 changes as it stays supplied all the time. The basis will be not what I just hear but how the changes follow compared to another op-amp. This is because today morning the Sun v.2 sounded different to me than yesterday in the evening but compared to another opamp left aside in the meantime - there was no change in the differences. In other words - both sounded different, maybe due to weather or AC power quality, but there was no movement in the difference area between the two. I'll burn in the OPA for some more time. 

 To clarify - I'm sure I received my HDAMs unused but I didn't get them directly from Audio-gd. I'd like also to admit that the Sun v.2 at the +-15V is one of the best op-amps I know. The fact that I know at least two slightly better to me shouldn't matter as both are bipolar so I could say the OPA Sun v.2 are the best JFET input op-amps I know. I'm waiting for the OPA827AID's to arrive so we'll see who's the winner in the JFET area.


----------



## rx7mark

HI ,
 Another nooby here. Just pulled the trigger on a Compass and both extra HDAM's, so one more pre-order. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks to the 18 for the great reviews and hard work, you folks are incredible. It will be interesting to find out which HDAM and sound setting's will sound best with my new D2000's. Lots of flexibility, which is a Compass strong point, as far as I am concerned.

 Kingwa said it would ship early March. I told him I would take either faceplate style. It's going to be an agonizing wait!

 Mark


----------



## broodwich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csommers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





I actually hadn't noticed that until you mentioned it, but the site does look different, in a good way!_

 

I guess winter is over regardless of what the groundhog says because the head-fi snowman is gone.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So for 300 USD, what would be a comparable DIY option?_

 

A fully decked out Buffalo from Twisted Pear. 

Twisted Pear Audio


 A fully tweaked out "Deluxe DIY DAC" from feebay (via one the kits available from the Hong Kong DIY parts suppliers) are two that come to mind right away. 

eBay Store on eBay Canada: Search results for pic development board.

 Just a few innovative kits at this place........

 A kit that I built (and modified heavily) being one of them (ended up costing around 250US) but fell just short of the Compass DAC section....you did read my review didn't you ? 

NEW BIG 24bit/192Hz HI-FI DAC DIY KIT,ASSEMBLED MODULE - (eBay.ca item 130288952705 end time 26-Feb-09 20:32:23 EST)

 None of these kits include the chassis,hardware, knobs,transformer(s) wiring nor the labor cost factored in etc and in that sense the 300US price point can be undercut or gone over by quite a margin depending on the choices made. 

 Peete.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A fully decked out Buffalo from Twisted Pear. 

Twisted Pear Audio


 A fully tweaked out "Deluxe DIY DAC" from feebay (via one the kits available from the Hong Kong DIY parts suppliers) are two that come to mind right away. 

eBay Store on eBay Canada: Search results for pic development board.

 Just a few innovative kits at this place........

 A kit that I built (and modified heavily) being one of them (ended up costing around 250US) but fell just short of the Compass DAC section....you did read my review didn't you ? 

NEW BIG 24bit/192Hz HI-FI DAC DIY KIT,ASSEMBLED MODULE - (eBay.ca item 130288952705 end time 26-Feb-09 20:32:23 EST)

 None of these kits include the chassis,hardware, knobs,transformer(s) wiring nor the labor cost factored in etc and in that sense the 300US price point can be undercut or gone over by quite a margin depending on the choices made. 

 Peete._

 

So I guess theres no comparable option then when all the external bits are added up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with an amp and stuff


----------



## decayed.cell

Hmm they don't seem to have any of those Deluxe ones listed, but it looks like they also have kits using the same DIR9001 that Kingwa prefers


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm waiting for the OPA827AID's to arrive so we'll see who's the winner in the JFET area. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was a huge fan of the OPA827, and used it extensively in my Zero... it's extremely good, just as superb as the LT1028, but with a different character. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Totally outclassed by the discrete OPA modules though... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I guess theres no comparable option then when all the external bits are added up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with an amp and stuff_

 

The DIY option has so many variables it's really hard to say how any design will fare as was hinted at in the original statement you quoted.

 It's very difficult to come up with examples of such because DIY types given the same core kit, nine times out ten, will build 9 different sounding DAC's.

 It's really tough to quantify just how many options and variations you can get into with just power supply choices alone......the heart of any piece of kit IMO.

 Anyway this is kinda OT....(DIY is addictive and loads of fun as long as the project works when it's time to test it) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's no fun when you futz things up and have to figure out what went wrong,

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm they don't seem to have any of those Deluxe ones listed, but it looks like they also have kits using the same DIR9001 that Kingwa prefers_

 

The kits come and go.....this one looks like a killer DAC project that would cost about 500US to finish off properly using a very plain no frills chassis.

Hi-END DIR9001+TDA1541A*4 NOS DAC Kit TDA1541 - (eBay.ca item 220366020427 end time 03-Mar-09 11:16:31 EST)

 OT again....sorry.

 Peete.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 It's no fun when you futz things up and have to figure out what went wrong_

 

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo true. Its just as fun when it actually works though. My first project was done last year around this time for one of my classes. It was a Mini3 and I made one very beginner mistake and it sucked trying to get it to work XD Once I got it working though, it was elation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Compass has the edge I would day right now simply because of its amazing temporary price tag. Once its gone to its normal price, then it may become a debate.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The kits come and go.....this one looks like a killer DAC project that would cost about 500US to finish off properly using a very plain no frills chassis.

Hi-END DIR9001+TDA1541A*4 NOS DAC Kit TDA1541 - (eBay.ca item 220366020427 end time 03-Mar-09 11:16:31 EST)

 OT again....sorry.

 Peete._

 

lol that thing looks like a monster... what do you think of the Yulong DAH1? Or was is it les who has the DAH1 to compare against the Compass?


----------



## Hottuna_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo true. Its just as fun when it actually works though. My first project was done last year around this time for one of my classes. It was a Mini3 and I made one very beginner mistake and it sucked trying to get it to work XD Once I got it working though, it was elation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I've done a fair share of electronics design/building/testing. 
 The debugging can be a little frustrating at times but at the end of the day things tend to turn out alright. 
 After all said and done, I have found the whole experience to be rewarding including the frustrating parts.
 I think it is less fun for everything to go right all the way. Takes away some of the challenge.
 The joy of seeing something you laboured to create working is just wonderful.

 Anyway it looks like I will be holding out for the new front panel Compass...
 Just ordered a HD650 in anticipation


----------



## csroc

I know what you mean about debugging. Past experiences have always shown that can be the most frustrating. When I built my point-to-point starving student the only mistake I made was not understanding how to read the actual tube wiring part of the diagram fully. Now I know. 

 More or less I know what I will do next when I've got more time, I laid out a circuit board diagram for a Meier crossfeed (Corda Cross-1) this afternoon but haven't had a chance to check it fully for errors. Since I want to make my own circuit board for it that either means etching it myself or finding a service to do it. From what I've seen there are a couple pretty cheap services out there that bundle many projects together in to one big manufacturing run so you can get a small circuit board for $20. I was originally planning to just etch one myself, haven't done that in a while though so it will be a fun experiment. Looks like etching kits start around $40 but I haven't looked much yet... if I could actually get a board made and predrilled (hopefully) for $20-30 I might try that too just to see how it is... would potentially be cheaper than etching my own.


----------



## idunno

PHEW! I had to spend a couple days away from Head-Fi last weekend, and it's taken me this long (and some marathon reading sessions) to catch up with the 70+ pages of brain fart here since Peete's excellent review seven days ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I completely missed the panel design process and voting; didn't reach the part of the thread with the polls until they they were already closed. That being said, I'm pleased with the final result, and am quite relieved that the gimmicky all-icon scheme has fallen by the wayside.

 I definitely want to commend the efforts of csroc and all who contributed. Though, it's all moot for me anyway, as I'll be getting one of the 30 with the original panels.

 In terms of nomenclature, wouldn't it be most accurate to refer to the three versions of Compass as RC1 (the first 18), RC2 (the next 30), and Version 1 (shipping late March)?


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PHEW! I had to spend a couple days away from Head-Fi last weekend, and it's taken me this long (and some marathon reading sessions) to catch up with the 70+ pages of brain fart here since Peete's excellent review seven days ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I completely missed the panel design process and voting; didn't reach the part of the thread with the polls until they they were already closed. That being said, I'm pleased with the final result, and am quite relieved that the gimmicky all-icon scheme has fallen by the wayside.

 I definitely want to commend the efforts of csroc and all who contributed. Though, it's all moot for me anyway, as I'll be getting one of the 30 with the original panels.

 In terms of nomenclature, wouldn't it be most accurate to refer to the three versions of Compass as RC1 (the first 18), RC2 (the next 30), and Version 1 (shipping late March)?_

 

Hmm... Good question.... maybe... just maybe... perhaps we should have a poll?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Part of that fun is having those challenges and then overcoming them. The sense of relief one feels when the bugger works as it should (after a number of failures) can't be adequately expressed with words....more like a combo jump in the air followed by an emphatic "YES" declaration 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The listening test is the reward !!!!!!!

 Just for fun what might you guys look at with the Compass to get even more from it ? Mods and tweaks big or small. No topology changes being the one rule or guideline.

 I know what I'd like to try but it might be fun to examine a few ideas just for speculative purposes in the thread.

 Peete.

 PS : Thanks idunno and good idea. Compass Rev 1 makes sense to me.


----------



## D.C.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The forum is burning in for the worse.

 I hope no one decides to get an aftermarket cable after this, I think you should only consider it if you are already happy with the sound of an already burned-in headphone_

 

sorry you didnt see the funny side of my post. i had no intention of buying a cable anyway.


----------



## csroc

I really haven't put thought in to what different names the Compasses should have. I just use what I see others using so there's V1, V2a and V2b and at least that's easy enough for me to keep track of.

 As far as modding goes I don't really plan to mod the Compass, however if I end up buying a new-new one when the new design is out and all that is set (I'm biting my nails hoping that everything stays in alignment through the machining and silkscreening phases) rather than trading my beta unit in then I might use the beta as the guinea pig for modding.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as modding goes I don't really plan to mod the Compass, however if I end up buying a new-new one when the new design is out and all that is set (I'm biting my nails hoping that everything stays in alignment through the machining and silkscreening phases) rather than trading my beta unit in then I might use the beta as the guinea pig for modding._

 

Actually its a great idea, keeping the original Compass for mods and getting the new version too - keeping Kingwa's offer in mind..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It certainly can't hurt to talk about possible tweaks. Whether they are used or not is another story entirely.

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It certainly can't hurt to talk about possible tweaks. Whether they are used or not is another story entirely.

 Peete._

 

I agree, even though I feel since Compass is much thought out by itself making it a quality gear, it will be very hard to get a jump from say Zero and Franken Zero - but something like tweaks to make it suit ones personal taste - looks likely..

 EDIT - That being said, I think if you have Moded a much raved about preamp like Adcom to sound even much better- then I guess anything is possible - although it really depends on experience and DIY skills. So maybe after everything settles down this can be talked about in another thread like Compass Mods..


----------



## Currawong

Speaking of tweaks, I'm finding the Moon a good match for my HD-600s, with its slightly wider soundstage.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Interesting Curra.....makes SENNse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sandchak I was thinking along the lines of some high quality bypass caps in strategic areas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting Curra.....makes SENNse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sandchak I was thinking along the lines of some high quality bypass caps in strategic areas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 

Well, knowing what you can come up with.. I quicky made an edit to my last post..


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree, even though I feel since Compass is much thought out by itself making it a quality gear, it will be very hard to get a jump from say Zero and Franken Zero - but something like tweaks to make it suit ones personal taste - looks likely.._

 

Yes... I have a few ideas that I want to work with to see if the tone switching can be done "on the fly" and also I have a couple ideas for making the super switch a rotary selector to access preamp AND bypass functions.
 But I will wait til I get my "new design" Compass.

 I also want to see a few pictures of the new motherboard and internals as well as getting some reviews on the new version before I order one. I don't want to order a new one and then find out the old one was better!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Joe that may work...either a guitar oriented "super switch" like the Paul Reed Smith rotary or a bank of SPST 3 position mini toggles ( on - off - on )...

 I'm sure something can be worked out...then again it might be a real tough nut to crack. Like you said we need to see the new board. I don't think it will be all that much different from the original but I could be wrong about that.

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting Curra.....makes SENNse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sandchak I was thinking along the lines of some high quality bypass caps in strategic areas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 
























 I'm with _him_. S-Man


----------



## yasker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll let you know after my pair arrives. But I'm betting that the limits of their capability will far exceed what the Compass is capable of.



 This Sunday I'm going to try a pair of HF1s, which'll be interesting.



 Yes. I did last Sunday. 

 I've updated the first post as well with that link and mbd2884's review._

 

Thanks Currawong! That's really helpful to know the difference. Well, for I am seeing all kind of praise on this product, I'd like to know it's limit as well. Even though, Compass is indeed great for the price for sure! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OK, I am planning to take it as my first DAC.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes... I have a few ideas that I want to work with to see if the tone switching can be done "on the fly" and also I have a couple ideas for making the super switch a rotary selector to access preamp AND bypass functions.
 But I will wait til I get my "new design" Compass.

 I also want to see a few pictures of the new motherboard and internals as well as getting some reviews on the new version before I order one. I don't want to order a new one and then find out the old one was better!_

 

Yes thats always a better approach, I can share with you whatever little info I have on the new boards, if it helps. 
 As far as I know it is the same design and layout, apart from a relay added instead of jumpers so that gain can be controlled by a switch, and secondly to add the "bright" SQ, parameters of few components have been changed..


  Quote:


 OK, I am planning to take it as my first DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 


 If you are only going to use it as DAC and I mean specifically as DAC now and in the future, then I think DAC100 or similar or better quality DAC would be a better choice - I am a believer of separate components producing a better sound than a Combo - I maybe wrong, but if I was only looking for a DAC, I would go with DAC 100 even though value wise Compass beats DAC100 by a long margin, but that is because it has additional HP amp + preamp too..

 EDIT - I have a feeling that I misread you, I mean when you say you are planning to buy Compass as your first DAC, you meant the Compass package as a whole - anyway I'll let my views remain..


----------



## tinseljim

Hey Guys/Gals i just heard the HD800s and well it was a revelation. It was so neutral that I realised just how coloured my Grado 325s are. The bad news is the HD800s makes the HD600 sound 'honky/tinny' and makes the HD650 sound muddy/veiled. 

 I believe the goal posts have moved. I believe I have been deceived all along with the headphones I've listened to so far. Not that my other phones don't sound good, I still would keep my 325s, but they aren't true. 

 The sad new is they're $1,400/£999! Good news is they won't need re-cabling.

 To stay on topic I will still get the Compass and will continue to sell things until I can afford these little marvels!


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know, the stock cable can't be that bad. There must be a reason people are buying the HD650 cable for their HD600 'phones._

 

Either like me, a DIY for fun, or if they are buying from someone else, to feel elitist, arrogance, so they can say I have a 400 dollar cable. So many reasons, but none about the sound. Its been proven too many times, cables make no difference as long as its the right gauge and impedance matching. My favorite is McIntosh founder, stating clearly and conducting the experiments himself with his amplifiers. What better testing than with one of the most knowledgeable experts in audio industry with some of the best amplifiers?

 Yeah that's right, placebo really messes up people's heads, to a point they can't distinguish from reality. I definitely have more faith in science than in the impressionable minds of audiophiles. As others pointed out, I think for many they conjure differences to justify what they paid for, biggest example, SinglePower amps, best amp I ever heard, but they are built like crap!

 Anyways, I really don't listen to much music out of Asia. The J-Pop, Korea-Pop is ridiculously pop, its mind blowing. Currently I only have 4 Asians on my list.

 Yo Yo Ma - C'mon, please, Cellist, don't know him yet, well you are lame

 Vanessa Mae - Again, if you don't know this violinist, lame... classical meets modern of pure awesomeness. Still don't know? Get her Classical Collection Volume 1, 3 CDs of violin bliss, talent, modern, and style, its fun and impressive. But here is the catch, unlike the numerous violinists lately trying to bring it mainstream, she actually has talent. Apocalyptica are fun to listen to, but talentless, bleh. 

 Richard Hyung-ki Joo - Not a true Asian as he is British, classical pianist. If you don't know who he is, but like Billy Joel, buy Billy Joel's Fantasies and Delusions. Its Billy's compositions for classical piano, performed by Joo. After get some of his other stuff, Joo definitely my opinion, better than David Lanz, but Winston still has more style.

 Jay Chou - Diverse producer from China. Very young, his music eclectic. If there is any artist currently who tries to fit as many different genres, styles into his music is him. It is most certainly popular culture music, but there is enough diversity, and integration of different genres to keep me interested. Mostly R n B, Hip Hop and classical influences, some electronica like Goa Psych and rock to the mix. Warning: He produces a ton of material, good luck sifting through them all. Sometimes you'll hear him in some romantic with classical piano/guitar, then all out rock guitar with jungle percussion, but rapping. Think the same rap as the recent wave of latino crud that all sound the same, but with the heavy guitars, jungle drumming, and add in a few violins. You'll likely think, wrong guy, nope, same dude.

 Recommend checking out one of his earlier albums, Fantasy album and newer, November's Chopin (No idea, can't find any influences of Chopin...). It's definitely Asian pop, but different, shrug, decide if he's fun to listen to or not. Not saying he is incredibly skilled or not, just fun. Also it's all in Chinese, no English, sorry.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also want to see a few pictures of the new motherboard and internals as well as getting some reviews on the new version before I order one. I don't want to order a new one and then find out the old one was better!_

 

I don't think there'll be any fundamental changes. The changes in the soft settings, as far as I know, just require a few changes to resistors.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Guys/Gals i just heard the HD800s and well it was a revelation. It was so neutral that I realised just how coloured my Grado 325s are. The bad news is the HD800s makes the HD600 sound 'honky/tinny' and makes the HD650 sound muddy/veiled. 

 I believe the goal posts have moved. I believe I have been deceived all along with the headphones I've listened to so far. Not that my other phones don't sound good, I still would keep my 325s, but they aren't true. 

 The sad new is they're $1,400/£999! Good news is they won't need re-cabling.

 To stay on topic I will still get the Compass and will continue to sell things until I can afford these little marvels!_

 

I'm listening with the top-of-the-line Stax headphones and amp right now and I tell you I'm completely ruined for dynamic cans now.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Either like me, a DIY for fun, or if they are buying from someone else, to feel elitist, arrogance, so they can say I have a 400 dollar cable. So many reasons, but none about the sound._

 

Thanks for calling me an elitist, arrogant whatever who has quality cables for reasons other than the sound.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Thanks for calling me an elitist, arrogant whatever who has quality cables for reasons other than the sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

No problem, you are very welcome.


----------



## Currawong

Ok, anyway, on to the Grado HF-1 trial. There's an irony here, in that the Stax headphones I own, the SR5NB "Gold" are known as the "Grado of Stax" or "Stax Grado" for their flat pads and very bright sound signature. However, where bright in a pair of electrostatic headphones just means more treble, in dynamic cans it means more treble and more irritation. It's no wonder that Kingwa added the soft settings and the HF-1s explained why, fast. I decided fast that I'm not a fan of HF-1s, despite liking my Stax. They do awesome bass driven well (if not deep bass) and have a lot of treble, but a dead mid-range, rather like my MB Quarts, except the latter don't do bass at all.

 But by now you're wondering how they are with the Compass. I'd say, no problem. Just the headphones themselves are a problem. I brought the ST3 along with me, which has a bit of a bass boost, and the HF-1s, like my HD-600s went well with that.

 I did switch around the HDAMs, and still felt I like the Moon the most, presently anyway, as it balances the slightly closed sound of the HP amp.

 I've lent my friend the Compass and my Denons so he can experiment and give some impressions while I ruin myself with one of his Stax rigs.


----------



## mbd2884

Curra, should do what I did after you are done, find all your impressions and put them in one post for easy reading! Although the opening post index is already made it easy.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just for fun what might you guys look at with the Compass to get even more from it ? Mods and tweaks big or small. No topology changes being the one rule or guideline.

 I know what I'd like to try but it might be fun to examine a few ideas just for speculative purposes in the thread.

 Peete.

 PS : Thanks idunno and good idea. Compass Rev 1 makes sense to me._

 

I'd like to see on the fly tone switch too. And if anyone knows how to lower the gain or tinker with the volume knob so it can't go beyond 10 o clock please let me know. I don't know how possible it is, but a on the fly opamp switch would be nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I remember Tyson said that the cables that came with his equipment may not have been good enough for high emi/rfi downtown Denver, and Les_Garten said according to Kingwa the custom power cables are not shielded, so maybe it can be improved in this way.


----------



## mbd2884

Anyone else read Curra's DAC1 comparison and wonder, what is the Nakamichi Dragon DAC?

 Found this picture, it is a giant! Drop it on a Grado for sure will be crushed to smithereens!


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of tweaks, I'm finding the Moon a good match for my HD-600s, with its slightly wider soundstage._

 

To add a bit, the Moon is also a wonder with D2000 in my Zero. It helps to smoothen the Denon's aggresive highs. Earth has better mids but I'll sacrifice it anytime for a smoother treble presentation as I'm very sensitive to sibilance. 

 My D2000's sound has changed so much though for the better after tons of mods which I did after selling the Zero. I can't wait to hear it with the Compass.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone else read Curra's DAC1 comparison and wonder, what is the Nakamichi Dragon DAC?

 Found this picture, it is a giant! Drop it on a Grado for sure will be crushed to smithereens! _

 

I think if you dropped that on a Compass it would smash the Compass to smithereens as well!


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The bad news is the HD800s makes the HD600 sound 'honky/tinny' and makes the HD650 sound muddy/veiled. 
_

 

I don't think the HD650 need to be compared to the HD800 to sound muddy and veiled. I'm hoping the Compass might help remove some of the mud.


----------



## csroc

I don't think the 650 sounds muddy and veiled at all. It's not a bright sound, it doesn't have any exaggerated highs like or upper mids but it's got plenty of treble extension and detail throughout the frequency range.


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think the HD650 need to be compared to the HD800 to sound muddy and veiled. I'm hoping the Compass might help remove some of the mud._

 

True enough but it was all the more obvious compared to something more neutral. I have to say that every time I hear them they don't tend to impress me. Maybe I'm missing something?

 I've heard that Bob Ludwig masters with the 650s. I wonder if he'll change to the 800s...


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think the 650 sounds muddy and veiled at all. It's not a bright sound, it doesn't have any exaggerated highs like or upper mids but it's got plenty of treble extension and detail throughout the frequency range._

 

Hmmm...i still think they do. But it may depend what we're used to, what our house sound is. My 'home stereo' is a pair of studio monitors that are quite revealing and detailed and compared to them the 650s sounded on the muddy side and lack some detail in the highs. I'm not really saying they're bad, I quite like them, but compared to revealing headphones/monitors they sound less revealing. If I hadn't heard the 800s I would be leaning towards getting some for something to contrast the Grados.


----------



## csroc

My home speakers have a low resonance cabinet and have a very flat frequency response. I find the 650s don't emphasize anything in the higher frequencies but I don't find that makes them muddy or lacking in detail, they're just not as in your face about it as my AD900s or other even brighter headphones (Grado 325s come to mind). Having less treble doesn't necessarily mean something is less revealing or detailed, similarly the opposite is also the case although often many people will refer to anything bright as sounding very detailed.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I tend to agree that high resolution speakers outperform the 650's, that's very true with my system but the 650's aren't muddy nor are they rolled off in the treble to a great extent IMO.

 The difference to me is rather subtle but marked, granted if the 650's did better than planar/ribbons I'd be wondering what is wrong with the ribbons. These differences aren't huge and it would serve the reader better to remark on the degree of difference otherwise generalizations will be taken as fact and that is helpful to no one.

 The 800's are a fresh start, new technology. I'd be worried if they didn't outperform the previous flagship of the brand. The voicing thankfully having been readjusted towards Neutral (or closer to it). Another factor that I think needs discussion and may not have been taken into account is burn in time for the 800's. I bet they need quite a few hours to settle down as the 650's did. I found the treble of the 650's to be rather annoying for the first 200 hours and somewhat forward only to recede into the background for a length of time. The treble improves near the end and improves further with a cable change (silver plated copper). The cable change brought a little more sparkle to the upper mids and treble region vs the stock cable. The cost of these cables however for that tiny improvement has to be judged by the end user whether or not the improvement in sound is worth the cost. I'm with mbd (not his attitude towards cable makers, that's a little extreme) but I feel a decent DIY cable is the best compromise. I'm also of the belief that the cable is the last thing anyone should look at for an upgrade. Source and amp are to be taken care of first. IMHO at least.

 Peete.


----------



## dBs

BTW the 30 remaining have completely sold out. Next batch of the Compass will be around the end of March according to the web site:

 "I plan to ship 30 upgraded units (old face and rear plates) early March.
 Now all sale out.

 Final version is planned to be shipped end of March."


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tend to agree that high resolution speakers outperform the 650's, that's very true with my system but the 650's aren't muddy nor are they rolled off in the treble to a great extent IMO._

 

I'll take speakers over headphones anyway generally. High resolution speakers vs high res headphones too. Just a different listening experience.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll take speakers over headphones anyway generally. High resolution speakers vs high res headphones too. Just a different listening experience._

 

Absolutely.......but the time I have to let my system really rip is far and few between these days so the head fi system is the next best alternative. Both methods of listening have attributes specific to their use neither one being a big advantage over the other. It just depends on what you prefer. I'm with you csroc...the traditional method I'll pick every time if given the opportunity but the head fi experience is a pretty good second 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Joeoboe

I agree Peete and csroc... speaker listening is superior... and I am surprised at how far headphone listening has come. It is a valid high-end experience these days... which is nice for my neighbors!


----------



## mbd2884

Even the HD800s can't compare to speakers. Having separate 10" woofer for the low octaves, two 6" woofers for mids and one tweeter and a super tweeter. Yeah we're talking 5 dedicated cones for different spectrums of sound compared to one tiny driver trying to reproduce all sound. There is just no comparison. This is my dream tower, the subs on the sides, the rest of the speakers out front, but the speaker housing is very deep so the two mid woofers are directed upwards instead of forward. Just in my head for someday future, no company mentioned, sorry.

 I think even cheap speakers will outperforum the HD800, its the detail and intimacy that a cheap speaker can't match though, but for overall enjoyment of sound, music, soundstage, power, and fun, tone accuracy across the spectrum, yeah even my crummy system will do this better than headphones. I don't have an incredible music system like you all.

 I just have a Kenwood Receiver connected to the Computer and a Denon CD player, and two JBL speakers that are now a decade old, and if I could just let them do what they do best, I would listen over my headphone rig any day. But old people, and scrooges in the apartment would surely have letters sent from the landlord coming my way. Previously was in a apartment building directed at other students, angry nerds from McGill also were upset, hence my journey in headphones so far.

 So when people start looking for the perfect sound, reading reviews of the HD800, or even the most ridiculous PS-1000, I can't help but laugh. 

 Headphones are definitely fun, more private, and an individual experience speakers can't match, but its definitely not the place to look for your perfect sound. As someone else said, with speakers there is that element not even the most expensive headphones, K1000, statics, whatever can't provide, the feeling. Speakers let you feel the music, the bass, the resonances. Even crappy speakers can let you do that. So as much fun it is to read opinions about comparison between headphones and speakers, its also dumbass, no real point IMO.


----------



## csroc

I have to agree. Even inexpensive speakers can provide enjoyment missing from headphones, but personally there's little enjoyment that headphones provide that speakers can't. I especially like that I don't have to wear my speakers in any fashion and I'm not tethered. This is why I have Audioengine A2s playing most of my computer sourced music as background music. They're basically on whenever I'm home and awake. I prefer that to wearing any of my headphones all day.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speakers let you feel the music, the bass, the resonances. Even crappy speakers can let you do that._

 

I daresay decent headphones let you feel the music too, just to a lesser extent. Can you not feel a powerful kickdrum in a properly amplified half decent headphone?


----------



## tinseljim

"I tend to agree that high resolution speakers outperform the 650's, that's very true with my system but the 650's aren't muddy nor are they rolled off in the treble to a great extent IMO."

 Yes i think that the differences aren't massive BUT they are a lot bigger than I was expecting, diminishing returns and all that. The hd800s are three times better (given relative prices) but i would say about ten times better in audio terms. Sound crazy? Well maybe. But i'm not easily duped by hype (although I do have a zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). 

 As far as burn-in the rep said 24hrs. Yep that's right a mere days worth. Should we believe that? 

 As far as speaker vs. headphones i would say the opposite. You get much better value for money with headphones. I'd be amazed to hear a speaker setup that sounded as good as my grados right now. Even the JVC marshmallows sound better than speaker systems costing 20 times more. seriously you must be joking that a $100 stereo from wal-mart out performs $300 headphones? no way!


----------



## Megalith

Cleary I haven't been on this forum long enough, but I'm surprised to see members preferring speakers over headphones here.

 I just recently moved into headphones because I was getting tired of having to deal with the effects of my room. My goal was to set up a neutral system---and for something like that, aren't headphones better/easier?


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Megalith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cleary I haven't been on this forum long enough, but *I'm surprised to see members preferring speakers over headphones*.

 I just recently moved into headphones because I was getting tired of having to deal with the effects of my room. My goal was to set up a neutral system---and for something like that, aren't headphones better/easier?_

 

x2

 The high end HPs I have heard have been much better then any high end speaker system I have listend to.

 There are just too many variables to make a speaker system superior to a high-end phone. 

 Speakers need crossovers, needs to match elements, has room resonance/coloring to worry about +++ All of this degrade/affect the sound.

 At least that is what I think

 (But one major difference is that speakers are much more robust and can handle it if you drop the heavy Nakamichi DRAGON-DAC on them. I belive this is important to some)


----------



## mlarn

I dont think Ive seen anything about this, but maybe Ive missed it. Has anyone compared the inputs in the Compass and their respective sound quality? Most people think the (older) HeadRoom MicroDac, for example, does a relatively poor job with their USB implementation and so sounds better with its optical/coax inputs. Its still a great unit, of course, but there is a difference in sound depending on how you get the signal to the unit. 

 Does the quality of the sound vary by input on the Compass at all (specifically, does the USB input "lag" behind the others?).


----------



## theBigD

yeah i tired of the room dynamics as well. i went way out of my way to build bass traps and corner modules since my room is so small, i achieved a pretty good result, but i lost all the space in my room! I got tired of no space plus my roomates prefer it if i dont blast them out of the home. 

 I was raised on headphones as well, my parents hated rock and roll so headphones were a lifesaver. I love the personal experience of headpones. but if i had the room size and right accustical treatments i would prefer speakers. 

 that being said it sure is easier to change headphones for different music and get a different experience. also no turning speakers just a little this way or that way to change the sweet spot!


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As someone else said, with speakers there is that element not even the most expensive headphones, K1000, statics, whatever can't provide, the feeling. Speakers let you feel the music, the bass, the resonances._

 

This is a large part of my problem with the AD900. Their soundstage is wonderful, but they're lacking enough bass that you truly do not _feel_ the music. This is part of why I tend to describe their sound as “thin.”


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I daresay decent headphones let you feel the music too, just to a lesser extent. Can you not feel a powerful kickdrum in a properly amplified half decent headphone?_

 

x2, but even some half-decent cans just don't have to oomph to be felt in that way.

 I do enjoy a decent set of speakers, but I find the intmacy of headphones to be addictive.


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm also of the belief that the cable is the last thing anyone should look at for an upgrade. Source and amp are to be taken care of first. IMHO at least._

 

Peete (or any of the Compass-18):
 Do you think the Compass, fed flac files from a pc, is decent enough to warrant upgrading the HD650 cables? I've been wondering about this, since recently acquiring a pair (proof positive that alcohol and head-fi are a dangerous combination). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm definitely enjoying them, and really like having a contrast to the DT-880.


----------



## Currawong

I've been thinking of getting a bigger desk and a near-field monitor set-up as I have a pair of Paradigm Atoms back in Australia I could bring back over here in the future.

 The funny thing is, I emailed Kingwa to ask him about designing a power amp to go with the Compass for just that. He replied that he'd already designed one!

 I guess I will be needing a bigger desk.


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been thinking of getting a bigger desk and a near-field monitor set-up as I have a pair of Paradigm Atoms back in Australia I could bring back over here in the future.

 The funny thing is, I emailed Kingwa to ask him about designing a power amp to go with the Compass for just that. He replied that he'd already designed one!

 I guess I will be needing a bigger desk._

 

Oh boy .... and I'm nearly done with my 41hz amp6 for use with the Compass! Incidentally, the Paradigm Atoms are exactly what I was thinking about for that setup.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think the HD650 need to be compared to the HD800 to sound muddy and veiled. I'm hoping the Compass might help remove some of the mud._

 

I think maybe some people need to clean their ears. Its ok in the shower to clean more than just your arms, legs, core section, cleaning the ears of the mud is a good thing also. Maybe then remove the earwax of mud while at it after shower...


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* 
_I daresay decent headphones let you feel the music too, just to a lesser extent. Can you not feel a powerful kickdrum in a properly amplified half decent headphone?_

 

I can hear and visualize the kickdrum, but I cannot feel it. Sensation in my ears is not the sensation of the rest of my head or chest.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* 
_This is a large part of my problem with the AD900. Their soundstage is wonderful, but they're lacking enough bass that you truly do not feel the music. This is part of why I tend to describe their sound as “thin.”_

 

I thinks you are a basshead, if I had more bass with James Holden on my AD900s with no EQ, my ears would deteriorate and no longer be able to distinguish balanced bass like the Head-Fiers who rave in the DT770 has perfect bass thread.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think maybe some people need to clean their ears. Its ok in the shower to clean more than just your arms, legs, core section, cleaning the ears of the mud is a good thing also. Maybe then remove the earwax of mud while at it after shower..._

 

+1 for the most cynical and tactless person ever. Please try, TRY to make a point about something without insulting the person/s. I have faith, I know that you can do this. Maybe replying in kind will assist in this endeavor, I certainly hope so.

 Thats really interesting that Kingwa already designed a power amp to accompany the Compass. Thats foresight from Kingwa, it also means that he knew that he was onto something big with the Compass. Even more to make the Compass a compelling purchase.


----------



## csroc

I'm curious to see that amp, not that I really expect to be buying one, but curious to see what features/specs it will offer.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm curious to see that amp, not that I really expect to be buying one, but curious to see what features/specs it will offer._

 

Its going to an upgrade to his S1 Integrated amp (although this one would be a power amp), with a little more power to drive speakers, I guess thats quite a quite a punch to pack in a chassis slightly bigger than Compass (height and depth).. I was looking at these for myself (2 to biamp) but later settled for one of his FBI series Integrated..


----------



## Toe Tag

Kingwa replied to me and said he had tried battery power and found it unsatisfactory. Direct DC battery power for the Compass is not just a straight 12V anyway so I don't think he or anyone has tried it. 

 Its a good job the new Compass now has pre-amp out, so we can use it with speakers and feel the music. We like to look at the music from many different angles. Don't worry though I'm not going to ask for a subwoofer out.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been thinking of getting a bigger desk and a near-field monitor set-up as I have a pair of Paradigm Atoms back in Australia I could bring back over here in the future.

 The funny thing is, I emailed Kingwa to ask him about designing a power amp to go with the Compass for just that. He replied that he'd already designed one!

 I guess I will be needing a bigger desk._

 

You want to use the Compass as the DAC and Pre-Amp, or just as Pre-Amp for this system of yours? Not that matters, just curious.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Absolutely.......but the time I have to let my system really rip is far and few between these days so the head fi system is the next best alternative. Both methods of listening have attributes specific to their use neither one being a big advantage over the other. It just depends on what you prefer. I'm with you csroc...the traditional method I'll pick every time if given the opportunity but the head fi experience is a pretty good second 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Heh heh, I'm the other way, I prefer the detail and out and out clarity of being able to hear everything that's on the disc, CD or LP. I don't have super revealing ribbons and/or electrostatic speakers and I love the way headphones remove the room entirely from the equation. I rarely miss a big soundstage, though it's wonderful when I've had it in a system. 
 Love my Senns! I find them revealing without brightness; bright and edgy CDs still sound that way, just that I can still hear the humanity behind the dodgy recording, thanks to Frankie and KHA II, it's rare to find a disc that is unlistenable. Maybe I should qualify that statement by saying that I don't buy a lot of mainstream commercial recordings, some of the one's I _have_ heard sound just plain bloody awful. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If the Pixies can record Surfer Rosa so magnificently, why can't modern recordings be like that? 
 That's a rhetorical question. Isn't it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 S-Man


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"I tend to agree that high resolution speakers outperform the 650's, that's very true with my system but the 650's aren't muddy nor are they rolled off in the treble to a great extent IMO."

 Yes i think that the differences aren't massive BUT they are a lot bigger than I was expecting, diminishing returns and all that. The hd800s are three times better (given relative prices) but i would say about ten times better in audio terms. Sound crazy? Well maybe. But i'm not easily duped by hype (although I do have a zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). 

 As far as burn-in the rep said 24hrs. Yep that's right a mere days worth. Should we believe that? 

 As far as speaker vs. headphones i would say the opposite. You get much better value for money with headphones. I'd be amazed to hear a speaker setup that sounded as good as my grados right now. Even the JVC marshmallows sound better than speaker systems costing 20 times more. seriously you must be joking that a $100 stereo from wal-mart out performs $300 headphones? no way!_

 

Ayuh, I'll take my Senns and Head Fi system over most speakers any day! I happened to have bought some reasonable Yamaha speakers to play with my new 2nd Gen Sonic T-Amp a few days ago and there's no way on this Earth do they sound in any way preferable to the Senn system as a musical alternative. Fine for a bit of fun, but the T-Amp itself way outclasses the Yams, though they certainly are an efficient team as far as sound levels go. Friends of mine have a tube amp set-up with Quad electrostatics and I would choose my Head Fi system most days over the tube/Quad kit, as one example. That's just me though, I really love the personal immediacy of the cans. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Performance for money, I'll take Senns/Frankie/KHA I.5/II and then some. S-Man


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ayuh, I'll take my Senns and Head Fi system over most speakers any day! I happened to have bought some reasonable Yamaha speakers to play with my new 2nd Gen Sonic T-Amp a few days ago and there's no way on this Earth do they sound in any way preferable to the Senn system as a musical alternative. Fine for a bit of fun, but the T-Amp itself way outclasses the Yams, though they certainly are an efficient team as far as sound levels go. Friends of mine have a tube amp set-up with Quad electrostatics and I would choose my Head Fi system most days over the tube/Quad kit, as one example. That's just me though, I really love the personal immediacy of the cans. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Performance for money, I'll take Senns/Frankie/KHA I.5/II and then some. S-Man_

 

I am a speaker man myself, but one thing I have to accept is a decent pair headphones can give you a better listening experience than speakers costing twice or even more.. but as you scale up, views may differ and become very debatable..

 EDIT - maybe that is why we don't find speaker manufacturers making headphones or the other way around (I don't consider Sony or M-audio as speaker manufacturers per se), its a different technology and territory all together and made to suit different purposes.. I would look at it more as an alternative rather than competitors..


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thinks you are a basshead, if I had more bass with James Holden on my AD900s with no EQ, my ears would deteriorate and no longer be able to distinguish balanced bass_

 

Yeeha! So when you get your HD650, your head will melt and we'll be robbed of your graceful presence? Are you looking for contributors to your fund?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am a speaker man myself, but one thing I have to accept is a decent pair headphones can give you a better listening experience than speakers costing twice or even more.. but as you scale up, views may differ and become very debatable..

 EDIT - maybe that is why we don't find speaker manufacturers making headphones or the other way around (I don't consider Sony or M-audio as speaker manufacturers per se), its a different technology and territory all together and made to suit different purposes.. I would look at it more as an alternative rather than competitors.._

 

Pretty much agree, sandchak, I used to be much more of a speaker man 20 years ago and had wonderful system that could give a soundstage into the flat next door, great with orchestral music. Since I moved to OZ in '91 though, circumstances brought me into the headphone experience and I've been hooked ever since. I've heard $60,000 Infinity speakers that don't do anywhere near for me what my well set up much cheaper speaker system did so effortlessly and the current Head Fi gear does in spades. S-Man


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You want to use the Compass as the DAC and Pre-Amp, or just as Pre-Amp for this system of yours? Not that matters, just curious._

 

If I go with a near-field monitor set-up down the track, I'd probably use a Stax amp as a pre, as they have that feature on many of them. Then all I'd have to do is put on headphones and switch off the speakers when, say, my wife wanted to watch the tele. All that means is I'll need a power amp, so something the size of the C2C/Compass that sits under them would be perfect.

 I'll probably end up with something like:

  Code:


```
[left]Reference 1 → C2C → Sennheiser HD-800 → Stax amp → Stax headphones[/left]
```

and then hopefully I'll fairly done with my search for headphone nirvana. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I go with a near-field set up after that so I can share the fun with the rest of the family while listening, all well and good. I'll hold onto the Compass to answer questions about it, since I'm sure people will have plenty to ask.
 [size=xx-small]
[/size]


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeeha! So when you get your HD650, your head will melt and we'll be robbed of your graceful presence? Are you looking for contributors to your fund? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for offer, but nope, I am in no rush. Will take all the time needed.

 On side note, Andy Hill is one craptastic producer. Produced Vanessa Mae's Storm album, I can only imagine how much better it could be if he was banned from setting within 25 miles of any Vanessa Mae recording at all times. His other notables would be Celine Dion and Cher, good lord, no wonder I hate Celine Dion and all her recordings.

 On her Storm album, Hill moron added all this techno junk, except, and its THE WORST electronica featured on any of my albums. He deserves a slap, but I would be sure to strap on a few Midi crud on my hands before doing so, for extra "impact." Her Violin was also raped in the process, true she has tendency to use her electric violins, but even they have some semblance of string sound, he ensured that it sounds similar to the crummy electronica he added. And yeah, his mastery over voice, does not exist. Integration of a chorus on a few songs in the background was just butchered. If it weren't for her own talent and style, this album would be worthless. I don't understand why talented artists sometimes choose terrible producers for their albums? I mean if N'sync had the smarts to hire BT to producer their best selling Album, yeah their music is not so awesome, at least they got more brains for getting good hands on their Album than Vanessa Mae.

 Listen to the Storm Album. Then listen to the recent Choreography Album. Its mind blowing, music sounding fake, butchered, raped and maimed and everything opens up, and actually sounds like "real" instruments were used on the album, not fake stomped "things," cause I have no idea what was used. Whatever they were, they're gross. Roxane's Voice on Choreography is the exception, Vangelis turned what could be a modern master piece into an early 80's new age trash.

 If Record Label assigns the producer, refuse and quit the label...for hiring idiots...fire agent also. Sign contract with full control over who works on their recordings from then on, and people wonder how the latest recroding technology still sounds worse than old Vinyl analog recordings.

 This is one Album, I prefer listening through the HD Realtek On-bourd soundcard instead of the Compass, I do not exaggerate this time. Maybe its just the Compass, but I doubt it, Andy Hill deserves a slap from this hand, repeatedly, and if possible through the internet and out of the next monitor he looks into. He'll see my hand reach out from the depths of the internet, he'll be scared witless thinking its the next version of the "The Ring" installment. My hands will reach around, search for the heaviest, solid recording instruments he is using and then proceed to maim his hands in the same manner he maimed this album. Bit much, but was fun to imagine. After I will go on my knees, with my bloody fists in the air shaking above my head, "I ******** RULE!"


----------



## Drosera

*[size=large]The Audio-gd Compass vs. the Meier-Audio Corda Opera[/size]*









*INTRODUCTION*

 Thinking about this review beforehand, I realised there are a number of similarities between the two of them. The obvious ones are of course that they are both DAC/Amps from experienced designers with USB input and a pre-amp function (this last one not yet present on my test-version). But the two of them also started out on their "head-fi life" receiving a fair number of reviews from a select group of listeners. In the case of the Corda Opera this was because of Todd's Opera loaner program. In the case of the Compass, it is of course Kingwa's marvellous joint design effort with the people from head-fi.org. In both cases, the programs have generated a lot of extra publicity here for the respective products.

 The comparison will consist of listening impressions from the Compass and the Opera separately first (using them as a combined DAC/Amp), followed by impressions of the DAC-out of the Compass fed into the amplifier section of the Opera.


*EQUIPMENT AND SETTINGS*

Transport
 -Digital coax from Pioneer DV-575A. (I know, I desperately need something better than this.) I chose to use this kind of digital input in preference to both USB and optical, both of which invariably resulted in lower sound quality than coax. I'm just trying to show both units in the best possible light.

Cables
 - Audio-gd Canare digital coaxial connecting the Pioneer to both the Compass and the Opera 
 - Audio-gd Shark analog interconnect (Monster plugs) between the DAC-out of the Compass and the analog-in of the Opera 
 - All equipment was fed by ordinary power cords, with just some minimal peak filtering upstream.

*Audio-gd Compass:*

Technical details
 See Peete's review.

Settings for review
 Gain=low (13dB); Amp set to Neutral; Earth opamp installed in DAC section.
 Burn-in time since the moment of arrival of the Compass: 320 hours (both amp and opamp)

*Meier-Audio Corda Opera: *

Technical details:
 [size=x-small]2 headphone outputs( 0/120 Ohm output impedance ); Maximum output 13V / 500 mA; Gain switch: maximum gain factors -5 / +8 dB; Crossfeed filter switch; 2 pairs of analog inputs, input impedance 12 kOhm; 1 digital S/PDIF input; 1 digital USB-input; 1 pair of volume-controlled preamplifier outputs. Gold-plated input jacks; Silver plated headphone jacks (Neutrik); Silver plated heavy duty switches; Alps Blue potentiometer for volume control; 25 Watts toroidal transformer for the analog section; 7 Watts toroidal transformer for the digital section; 110V and 220V mains power switchable; Power uptake 12 Watts; Built-in groundloop breaker; Schottky rectifying diodes in the power supply; Double regulated voltage lines; Low impedance electrolytic buffer capacitors (Nichicon); Total Buffer capacity 80.000 uF.; Bypass capacitors in the power supply.; Polystyrol and polypropylen capacitors in the signal path; Metalfilm resistors in the signal path; LM6171 opamps biased into class-A using LM334 current sources; 2 BUF634 buffer amplifiers at left and right headphone output channel; (Active) balanced headphone ground; 3 BUF634 buffer amplifiers at the balanced ground headphone output channel; PCM2704 as USB-to-S/PDIF receiver; CS8420 as S/PDIF receiver (in high-jitter-reduction mode); PCM1794 D/A converter-chip; LM6171 opamps biased into class-A for I-V conversion; Sampling frequencies / resolution: 8..96 kHz / 16, 20, 24 bit (S/PDIF);32, 44.1, 48 kHz / 16 bit (USB). Star-grounding; Ultra short signal paths; Signal paths and signal path components at the bottom side of the PCB for maximal shielding. Weight: 3.9 kg. Size: 27.6 x 27.8 x 8,7 cm.[/size]

Settings for review
 Gain=low (-5dB); Crossfeed=off.; low z (0 ohm) output

 Note the exceptional difference in gain between the two amps (-5dB vs. 13dB)! This does clearly illustrate the necessity for a lower gain setting in the Compass (which will be there). You might wonder if it wouldn't be more fair for comparison to put the Opera in high gain (8dB), which would be closer to the Compass's 13 dB. Curiously, the high gain of the Opera has a huge effect on the sound signature of the amp. The soundstage gets 'flattened' to a very high degree and becomes unpleasantly aggressive and direct. Therefore, I decided to use the gain setting which IMO showed the Opera in the best light. (At least with the AKG K500.)

 Both units received at least a couple of hours warm-up before review.

 Volume matching was done, rather unprofessionally, by ear, using pink noise.

*Headphones*
 - AKG K500 (stock cabling) ('Phones I know and love very well by now.)
 - Grado SR-325i (stock cabling) for some tracks.


*COMPARISONS*

 [For those of you who have less time on their hands or lack the stamina to sit through all of my (slightly repetitive) impressions and comparisons. Just scroll down to the discussion and conclusions.]

*[size=x-small]Dmitri Shostakovich
 Symphony No. 15 in A major
 1. movement-Allegretto
 London Philharmonic Orchestra
 Bernard Haitink
 (Decca)[/size]*
 As mentioned earlier in this thread, this is my go-to test track. It's a very varied orchestral piece employing every possible sonority and instrument combination you can think of and a variety of percussion. The recording is simply perfect, 1978, representing how brilliant analog recording could be. (Before things took a serious nose-dive in the early 80's in the first years of digital.)

Compass
 It's easy to love the way everything is so well-balanced and full-bodied. From the upper high treble detail to the bass focus. Things that strike me as missing however, are a better definition of the woodwind (there is also an impression of sameness to the colour of the instruments)and the soundstage is surprisingly small (although not cramped).

Corda Opera
 Everything is really distant compared to the Compass, but this results in a much wider and deeper soundstage. Glockenspiel notes still sing, but on the whole the highs seem muted. Separation is quite good (larger soundstage helps here), but still not as excellent as with the Compass. Excitement really suffers from lack of detail, focus and dynamics. However, the cymbal clashes (rather complex to resolve fully) are handled just as well here as the Compass does. Only they're situated in their proper place at the back of the orchestra now, and not in your ear. Background here seems marginally less quiet.

Compass (DAC) -->Corda Opera
 Oooh, that really solves the muddiness. Things are still far more distant than with the Compass alone, with more soundstage. Although the last is a bit reduced compared to the Opera alone, that frustrating lack of detail is gone at least. That said, the upper range is still missing that last bit of definition, and what's even more strikingly absent is that sheer excitement and impact that the dynamics and directness of the Compass brings when used on its own. However, things are probably much more natural this way.
 The difference between the Compass and the Opera is somewhat like standing in the middle of the orchestra (Compass) and standing at the back of the hall, perhaps even under an overhanging balcony (Corda Opera). Combining the two puts you right in the middle of the hall.



*Antonio Vivaldi
 Concerto for two mandolins in C major RV558
 1. movement: Allegro molto
 Il Giardino Armonico, Milano
 Giovanni Antonini
 (Teldec)*
 Il Giardino Armonico must be one of the best things to have happened to HIP (Historically Informed Performance) practice. Particularly when they're playing the music of a compatriot. Going all out, bringing passion and aggression in equal measure and not afraid to push their instruments to the limit. Nice clear and balanced recording, as expected from this label.

Compass
 Plenty of excitement, although the amount of detail can become a bit overwhelming when it's presented in such a forward way. All that authentic string sound can develop a tendency to become harsh, although partially at least this is sheer honesty on the part of the Compass. There is some smear in the mandolin sound, the fast notes are not as well defined as they should be and have a tendency to run together. But wow, gotta love those dynamics!

Corda Opera
 This is certainly the more relaxing listen. The difference in soundstage is quite noticeable, but far less so than with larger orchestral pieces. Funny, you don't really miss the detail here, although obviously a lot of it is lacking. What is most remarkable here is the sameness in the colour of the instruments, both in the strings and in the woodwind. Everything feels fed through a rather cheap cd player. A definite lack of sparkle. This is also noticeable in the repeated plucked strings of the mandolin, which, however, don't smear here.

Compass (DAC) --> Corda Opera
 More direct, slightly less soundstage. Still, unfortunately, too much detail is absent. It just lacks the bite that is needed. The fast mandolin notes are much, much better articulated here, than with the Compass alone though. Instrument colour has significantly improved, but is not up to the level of the Compass alone.



*Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
 Symphony No.40 in G minor, KV550
 3. movement: Menuetto-Trio
 Prague Chamber Orchestra
 Charles Mackerras
 (Telarc)*
 Moderately paced music for small orchestra. The recording is a rather problematic one. It's recorded very well, but in a very resonant acoustic which is almost impossible to resolve fully. Yet, in my experience, it's a very good test for the quality of equipment to see how far it gets in resolving it.

Compass
 Soundstage is pretty well-defined, although very underrepresented. Strings are nicely detailed, but somewhat "tizzy" (sibilance?), making them a bit uncomfortable. Resolving this acoustic to the degree that it does is no small feat, although instrument separation is still far from ideal. Horns are good, but do develop some slight grain. The harpsichord continuo is nicely separate from the rest of the orchestra, but lacks that last bit of focus. Background is very quiet.

Corda Opera
 It certainly manages to paint the big picture convincingly, but detail, focus and especially separation are all far from ideal. Horns sound simply horrible, no brassy sheen to them at all. The harpsichord continuo can be made out, but isn't well separated from the rest of the orchestra.

Compass (DAC)--> Corda Opera
 A nice balance again, although the true acoustic of the venue is still a little underrepresented. Horns are remarkably better. The continuo stands nicely separate and is fairly well focussed. However, when it comes to instrument separation the Compass solo still scored the best.



*Ludwig van Beethoven
 String quartet in F minor, Op. 95
 3. movement: Allegro assai vivace, ma serioso
 Gewandhaus-Quartett
 (NCA)*
 Rather fast and aggressive string quartet movement, with quick stops and turns. The recording is quite direct, but very detailed.

Compass
 Not much of a soundstage, although decay is well reproduced. There's a lot of definition to the strings and separation is just right. However, there is a hint of sameness to the sound, perhaps caused by a that last touch of warmth that's missing from the presentation. Highs are so well-defined as to border on the abrasive, but not yet uncomfortably so.

Corda Opera
 Quite a bit more soundstage and an even better reproduction of decay. Strings are more pleasantly rounded, but not so that you might feel that detail is missing. That said, it does have a slight muted or stifled quality to it. Separation is not very good, but okay. There is still a similar sameness to the colour of the strings. Overall a very good result from what's, up till now, proving to be the underachieving DAC.

Compass (DAC) --> Corda Opera
 Wow, soundstage and separation both strike you as much better from the get-go. Even the decay has more structure to it, like you can even discern the shape of the hall. There's much more space between the instruments and individual colour of the instruments registers much more clearly.
 Still, compared to the Compass solo, a tiny bit of detail might still be missing, although the extra warmth here is a welcome compensation. The well-defined dynamics here also make this the most exciting listen of the three.



*César Franck
 Pièce Heroïque, in B minor
 Jean Guillou
 (Dorian)*
 A short late 19th century piece for organ, quite varied in nature going from ruminative to....well...heroic. Jean Guillou pulls out all the stops here (ok, I just had to say that), probably using a greater variety of different registrations than good taste would allow. (I love it.) The Van den Heuvel organ of St Eustache in Paris is a lovely monster, quite recently build (1989). Certainly, going by the sound alone, it's almost indistinguishable from the late 19th century Cavaillé-Coll organ building tradition.
 In my opinion, reproducing the sound of a big 19 century-style organ well is one of the greatest challenges you can give any piece of HiFi equipment. The complexity of sonorities, the intricacies of the higher harmonics, the enormous dynamic and tonal range and the very resonant venues present a truly daunting task.

Compass
 You gotta love this degree of definition. Voices are very nicely separate. However, it's only in the quieter passages that you get some sense of the huge acoustic this is recorded in. It feels rather like a small chapel. (And it isn't. Less than two months ago I happened to walk past this church in Paris. It's frickin' huge!) As usual there is a hint of sameness to instrument colour.

Corda Opera
 So much detail is missing here and there's a distinct lack of separation as well. The result is relatively "woolly" and diffuse. There is a better sense here of how large the church actually is, but also in this respect the real definition of the acoustics is seriously lacking. The lowest notes (always a challenge, certainly through headphones) are just laughably badly reproduced. Not much more than some vague rumbling. And all that sparkle that the 'brass' registers should bring is hardly present either.

Compass (DAC) --> Corda Opera
 Now you're at a larger distance from the organ. It's only this combination that manages to paint a truly 3-dimensional picture. After all, this organ is a huge beast, not all the registers should sound like they emanate from the same point. Voices really float in the air now, something I did not hear previously, and there's quite a bit more colour to them too. Even the lowest notes are 'gripped' rather well. You can clearly make out those first 'huffs' of air being blown through the pipes at the start of each note. So much more dynamics too, and finally you can hear the true size of the venue.
 And yet, even here there's still that difficulty in resolving the complex upper harmonics that can really put that thrilling sparkle on the Trumpet registers. Quite an achievement nonetheless.



*Richard Strauss
 Die Frau ohne Schatten-"Nun wil ich jubeln"
 Julia Varady, Hildegard Behrens, Plácido Domingo, José van Dam
 Konzertvereinigung Wiener Staatsopernchor
 Wiener Philharmoniker
 Georg Solti
 (Decca)*
 The finale of the opera. Two sopranos, a tenor and a baritone singing their hearts out with a small choir and a huge orchestra in full swing thrown in for good measure. General neo-Romantic operatic mayhem.

Compass
 Decent separation all around, but the whole thing does appear very "compacted", like it takes place in a large living room and not the huge Grosser Saal of the Vienna Konzerthaus. There is a little grain to the voices as well, particularly noticeable with the baritone. Details in the orchestra don't really jump out at you as they should.

Corda Opera
 All of a sudden, everything has a place in a much larger soundstage. Interestingly, although the soundstage has widened to a large extent, it is not really any deeper (this is probably simply not resolved). Still, there's at least the sensation of better resolution, simply because things have more "Lebensraum". Unfortunately, there's an overall glare to it that rather appears to obscure detail too.

Compass (DAC)--> Corda Opera
 Soundstage is not necessarily wider than with the Opera alone, but depth (a little) and resolution (a lot) have improved. And that annoying "blanket" of glare has completely disappeared. This still remains a horribly complex recording to resolve fully, but the combo is simply miles better than the single units. Separation in the orchestra is much higher, although, compared to the Compass solo, there might be a smidgen less detail. Instrument colour is here far and away the best of the three too.



*Claude Debussy
 Preludes (Livre I)-La cathédrale engloutie
 Krystian Zimerman
 (Deutsche Grammophon)*
 This piece for solo piano describes the legend of Ys, where a cathedral that lies sunken off the Breton coast of France. On clear mornings it rises up from the water and the music of the organ and the ghostly Gregorian chant of the monks can be heard. It explores the full dynamic and tonal range of the piano.

Compass
 The notes have weight and definition, but lack a little sparkle. The decay sounds way too thick/dense to be entirely natural. There's a fairly decent amount of "growl" to the lower notes. Again, the slight lack of warmth is also noticeable, just as that sameness in instrumental colouring. And lower notes do seem to lack that last bit of grip and definition.

Corda Opera
 The opening notes seem to 'float' far less than they do with the Compass. Acoustic cues are all there, but seem 'glued' to the sound of the piano. The upper range of the piano lacks all true sparkle, almost (but not quite) as if the lid of the piano is closed. Lower sonorities are simply vague and there appears to be less 'blackness' to the background as well.

Compass (DAC) --> Corda Opera
 Now there's a much better sense of the acoustics and there's simply a lot more of it too. It stands far more separate from the sound of the piano, although it's still not quite ideal. Both separation and definition in the sound of the piano itself have hugely increased. In retrospect, I only now notice how notes do not have that tendency to "run together", like they had with both the units on their own. There's a lovely weight to the notes now, you can really clearly hear the sound of the hammers hitting the strings. And yet, some of the sparkle that should be here is absent or muted (the Compass alone, though still not ideal, does this better).



*Francis Poulenc
 Figure humaine-"Liberté"
 Netherlands Chamber Choir
 Eric Ericson
 (Globe)*
 A medium-paced piece for chamber choir. The text is a poem by Paul Eluard, an ode to liberty, poignantly set to music by Poulenc in occupied France (1943). The piece, set for two 6-part choirs, is rather taxing on the choir as a whole and particularly on the sopranos whose vocal line keeps rising towards the end, culminating in a solo high E (above high C).

Compass
 Certainly not as direct a presentation as you might expect from previous impressions. There is a lack of individual colour to the singers. They are fairly well separated, but not to the extent that it becomes easy to pinpoint the individuals. The acoustics are not that well separated from the choir. The sound of the sopranos, however taxed, does never become harsh.

Corda Opera
 Choir is very distant. Separation is rather comparable to that of the Compass, but, as usual, detail over the whole range (mainly mids and highs) is lost. The choir here is noticeably less "clustered", although it is still not possible to pinpoint the individuals with any ease. There is an uncomfortable glare in the sopranos, especially towards the end. The final high E just fails to send that shiver down your spine like it should (and does with the Compass).

Compass (DAC) --> Corda Opera
 It's amazing what this does for ease of listening. Everything takes place in a much larger acoustic, but also against a really black background. Finally, here you can easily pinpoint the individual singers, but it is most of all the absence of all that glare that makes this a much more enjoyable experience. Individual dynamics of the singers com through amazingly well. And that high E really hits the spot.



_*Interlude*_
 In the following selections I will be using both the AKG K500 and the Grado SR-325i. However, the most important impressions will always come from the K500, because they make any limitations in the reproduction much more apparent than the Grado's do. The Grado's are simply too forgiving of both source and amplification. The AKG's were obviously designed with the recording studio in mind, the Grado's just for enjoying music. But I included them so some of you who might be interested can get an impression of how they work with the Compass.



*Frank Zappa
 You Are What You Is
 Track 4: Goblin Girl
 (Rykodisc-Latest (1998) remaster)*
 I don't think I've heard 'amplified music' (I'll keep using this term throughout, it will come in handy later) ever better recorded than by Frank. The guy was truly a universal genius in all aspects of music. The album "You Are What You Is" is simply a miracle of overdubbing done well. There's no end to the details you can discover here. And the song Goblin Girl is no exception.

Compass
 Focus, punch, definition and separation, it's all there. Drums come through very nicely separate from everything else, situated at the back. It's just the bass that could be focussed a little better (but the K500 could be partially to blame here).

Corda Opera
 This takes you quite a few steps back in distance to the music. Some of panning effects do have some more soundstage here to develop and sound more 3-dimensional. But overall the sound is very muted, much less detailed, much less engaging.

Compass (DAC) --> Corda Opera
 Well, that appears to get rid of most of the muddiness. And the resolution of the complexity is now really benefiting from the larger soundstage. Still, this doesn't really compensate for the loss of detail when compared to the Compass solo. The whole thing feels underplayed and a little dull.

Grado impressions
 Little to say here. Details gets a big boost, but you have to hand in almost all of the 3-dimensionality. They obviously sound most detailed and engaging from the Compass.



*Genesis
 A Trick of the Tail
 Track 7: A Trick of the Tail
 (Virgin-2007 remaster)
 SACD-layer*
 Just some rather slickly produced prog-rock in quite a decent remastering. I'm using the SACD-layer here, so this comes straight from the analog outs of my Pioneer player. (Thank goodness that it's miles better at playing SACD's than it performs with ordinary redbook.) So, this just tests the difference between the amps.

Compass (amp)
 There's not a whole lot of soundstage here, but a whole lot of detail and bite to every instrument and even the vocal lines. All the transients are really expertly handled.

Corda Opera (amp)
 The canvas gains enormously in width and depth. Everything is very nicely separate, but there's a frustrating lack of detail, particularly in the high treble.

Grado impressions
 Nothing surprising here. The 325i's just add their typical Gradoishness and basically show the AKG's just how it should be done with this music almost all areas (that is, apart from the soundstage, of course). The same differences between the two amps as noted with the AKG's can also be heard with the Grado's, but are a lot smaller due to the forgiving nature of the Grado's.



*Wintersun
 Wintersun
 Track 2: Winter madness
 (Nuclear Blast)*
 Now what kind of label do we put on this? For now "progressive Viking metal" will have to do. Fast, hardhitting, melodic and very intricate and multilayered. Pair this with a slightly less than perfect recording and any setup will have hard job deciphering it all.

Compass
 An amazing number of details manage to come through. All those fast guitar riffs, synth-lines (hey, there's even a harp in there, rather hard to make out). However, it's hard to escape the creeping feeling that the K500's have serious problems keeping up with all of this.

Corda Opera
 Funny, this is probably the first time that a noticeable change in soundstage does not occur when switching to the Opera. The harp comes through a little better now, but unfortunately detail on the whole really suffers and the bass becomes rather unfocussed and thumpy. Yup, dullness is here again. (Something that really shouldn't be happening with this music.) Even Jari's amazing shredding is not very involving.

Compass (DAC) --> Corda Opera
 Surprisingly, this is almost worse. Everything has cleared up quite a bit (although the harp has slightly less focus), but the serious lack of detail remains. And it feels so much less involving than it actually should.

Grado impressions
 It's amazing what the Grado's manage to do here in terms of definition and PRaT. But also Jari's voice gets that lovely raspiness (an acquired taste, maybe) that the AKG's just do not convey. Everything points to one thing: this stuffs just too fast for the AKG's. The Compass is here again far and away the best and most exciting performer. For the first time you can actually hear the harp playing throughout the song, instead of just at the beginning.



*DISCUSSION*

 This is going to a bit sloppy, because I'm still trying to interpret all the things I heard throughout trying these different samples of music. The order in which I put the different pieces is the same as the order in which I listened to them.

 In the first part of the listening sessions, using all sorts of classical music (unamplified music), things really looked like they were pretty going to be reasonably clear cut. The worst performance was almost invariably by the Corda Opera solo. Combining the DAC section of the Compass with the amp section of the Corda Opera, clearly showed where the problem was. The DAC in the Corda Opera is just not very good. Actually I'm rather shocked how badly it performed with certain recordings. Reports about the quality of the Corda Opera DAC have varied throughout reviews, some calling it 'only of average quality', others characterizing it as at least the equal of the DAC section in most 500-700$ cd players. As can be seen by the design specs above, this DAC certainly was not an afterthought. Moreover, it benefits from a dedicated power supply, something the DAC in the Compass does not have. So it's rather surprising how little detail it often manages to lift from recordings. And, even worse, how often it seems to suffer from a general 'digital' glare in the upper range. Generally, the impressions in that first section also seem to point to the Compass amp being less satisfying in than that of the Opera. The Compass amp occasionally seemed to marginally best the Opera amp when it came to detail, but with regard to soundstage, separation, acoustic cues and instrument colour the Opera amp proved clearly the superior one.

 It proved rather surprising towards the end to switch to recordings of amplified music. Suddenly the tables seemed almost completely turned. The Compass amp invariably outperforming that of the Corda Opera in detail, PRaT and involvement.

 Well, this proved rather educational. Probably the primary difference between these two 'groups' of music (amplified and unamplified) is the far greater complexity of the soundstage information that has to be resolved in the recordings of unamplified music. But it appears that this particular element has major consequences for the reproduction of other aspects of the recording. Throughout the unamplified samples the Compass amp seemed the less resolving one, however, listening to the amplified music proved this not to be a black and white thing. It appears that the size of the soundstage an amp manages to paint has a very strong impact on the resolution that can take place in this soundstage. (Who knows, there might even be a positive effect on the characterization of instrument colour.) It's interesting to hear these things so clear featured here as trade-offs. 

 So why do these amps sound so different?

_The mystery that is gain_
 One of the most striking features in the differences in specs between these amps is the gain factor. The Compass low gain is at 13 dB (that is , in the test versions, in the new version it will be 9dB). Now note the difference with the Corda Opera which has a low gain of -5dB! This appears to be a feature of all higher end stuff from Jan Meier. The Symphony has a low gain of -7dB, the Cantate has one of -9.7 dB. Many people have complained that those amps don't go loud enough with their headphones, although personally I can't imagine anyone wanting to play their 'phones at such ear-demolishing levels. However it may be, Jan Meier has not increased the gain factor in these amps because of this. So there must be a reason for it. Partially at least, this will be the lower noise floor that lower gain brings. Lower gain means less amplification of those things that you don't want amplified in the first place. But there might be another thing... Switching the gain on the Corda Opera not just effects volume, it has a huge effect on the sound characteristic. It almost completely flattens the soundstage and has a rather crude "loudness" effect on the sound quality as a whole. All in all, it sounds like a different amp. (For those doubting these impressions. Really, I assure you when you switch to high gain on the Opera you will search in vain for the sound signature you heard on low gain anywhere on the volume dial.) So if gain influences sound signature to such a degree on the Corda Opera, would it do the same for the amp of the Compass? I haven't got a clue on this one, but suddenly I get the urge of asking Kingwa for a version where low gain is set to -5dB or so.

 Through all of this I've hardly said anything about the DAC section of the Compass. No doubt this is a consequence of the fact that it's much easier to write a review about things you _don't_ like, than about things you _do_ like. And that's the way it is with the Compass DAC: there's nothing not to like about it. It sounds full, detailed and (most importantly) completely natural and organic. It would be a fitting component of any DAC-amp costing up to 1500$. At its actual price it's a steal. (And that's not even considering the versatility that comes from 'opamp-rolling'.)



*CONCLUSIONS*

 The Compass is simply amazing. It pairs a DAC that simply can't do anything wrong with a gorgeously detailed and exciting amp section. To sell such a thing at just 400$ (let alone 258$) should be illegal. The Corda Opera DAC, on the whole, can't even decently be compared with that of the Compass, the Compass DAC is so much better they're in completely different leagues. When comparing the two amp sections things become far less clear cut. The Compass being more direct, detailed and exciting with anything that doesn't really need a large soundstage, the Corda Opera rather special with anything in the unamplified domain. (But frankly, the smaller soundstage of the Compass amp wouldn't worry me too much, unless almost all of my listening would be big orchestral repertoire.)

Afterthoughts

 If you think my review is much more negative in tone than that of Peete's (for example), this may be true in a way. The important difference to note here that Peete was for a large part describing his listening experience and enjoyment of the Compass. And in this way coming much closer to a description of what the Compass would be like in ordinary daily use. For my review I've just done critical listening, mainly noting down what was still wrong or left room for improvement. Don't think for a moment that I'm not enjoying the Compass immensely when I'm simply listening to music with it.

 Keep in mind with all of the above, that comparison was made with both an amp (Corda Opera) that's renowned for excelling at soundstage and a set of headphones (K500) that has a soundstage just this side of the K1000. Throw the two together and practically anything else will come up short in this department in comparison. Also, I used the Earth opamp throughout the review. The Earth is known for neutrality, but not for its large soundstage. For more details on that I might experiment more in the future with Sun and Moon. (That said, the difference between the amps remains, of course, because I did test them both fed by the same Compass DAC.)

Miscellaneous impressions
 I don't really like that locking Neutrik jack. There, I said it. It's not that I don't enjoy the extra security such a connection gives, but I just don't see why this is so much better than the Neutrik combo-jacks used on the Corda Opera. They seem to grip the plug just as securely and don't have that annoying red lever that you have to push all the time when removing the plug.

 There actually is a noticeable hum to the power supply of the Compass. However, it's not really annoying and it's doubtful if you would ever notice it while wearing headphones. In fact, I only noticed that it was actually still audible at half a meter distance when I switched off my computer to do the review-listening.

 Well, that's it for now. Constructive criticism will be appreciated.


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## mbd2884

The wall has come and I am undecided, do I read, or go to bed and read later?

 I read it some of it, the combinations, conclusions and comparisons. This review pretty much validated my suspicions, that technically Compass would be superior, detail, clarity, the DAC, but the Opera would excel with the Amp, maybe that was the tube factor?

 Seems to me Jan Meier may be similar to John Grado being DIY Hobbyists turning a profit compared to Kingwa and Audio-gd or Audio Technica, with skilled, professional sound engineers. If you want detail, accuracy, then go with sound engineers, you want that colored, modded sound, go with a hobbyist? /shrug, just musing right now.

 Sounds to me the Compass should be a good competitor to the Meier Audio Cantate and Arietta, so for those who love Meier Audio gear, will have another option to consider in the future. 

 Fun review, I'll read the rest tomorrow.


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## dBs

A very nice review indeed. It seems you prefer classical music to the amplified fare. Its a good thing that about 80-90% of my listening is of amplified music.

 Its a very good review, I really like how you broke it down. It was very organized and clearly defined. If I was looking for a specific impression, I could find it quickly without having to read it half way through to find it. I like that in a review. Hope you dont mind if I use a similar organizing method when I finally get around to reviewing my own =D

 Excellent work.


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## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems to me Jan Meier may be similar to John Grado being DIY Hobbyists turning a profit compared to Kingwa and Audio-gd or Audio Technica, with skilled, professional sound engineers. If you want detail, accuracy, then go with sound engineers, you want that colored, modded sound, go with a hobbyist? /shrug, just musing right now._

 

Thats an interesting observation, there might well be something to that.


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## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its a very good review, I really like how you broke it down. It was very organized and clearly defined. If I was looking for a specific impression, I could find it quickly without having to read it half way through to find it. I like that in a review. Hope you dont mind if I use a similar organizing method when I finally get around to reviewing my own =D

 Excellent work._

 

Thanks! Please, steal the lay-out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's not really mine anyways, because I basically used the layout that is commonly used for most scientific articles. (Although I didn't adhere to the rules as strictly as when I would be writing one of those.)


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems to me Jan Meier may be similar to John Grado being DIY Hobbyists turning a profit compared to Kingwa and Audio-gd or Audio Technica, with skilled, professional sound engineers. If you want detail, accuracy, then go with sound engineers, you want that colored, modded sound, go with a hobbyist? /shrug, just musing right now._

 

I second dBs's comment: that's an interesting observation. In the case of Jan Meier though, I wouldn't characterize this amp as coloured or modded. It's more that he just seems to have tuned it to work best with the kind of music he listens to the most.


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## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I second dBs's comment: that's an interesting observation. In the case of Jan Meier though, I wouldn't characterize this amp as coloured or modded. It's more that he just seems to have tuned it to work best with the kind of music he listens to the most._

 

Yeah true. I think Jan Meier and John Grado can get away with this, well just look at who their supporters are? Their products don't need to be accurate, neutral and un-biased.

 Whereas AKG products have audio professionals who depend on their accuracy, detail and un-biased sound. Seems to me Kingwa has this same mentality as a renouned Engineer himself. In this aspect I believe he has a reputation to keep, as he is expected to support his product's with real numbers, schematics and reasoning.


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## dBs

So is that engineers like Grado or the Ultra/Beyer/Senn?

 Im an engineer (though not sound XD) and I like the Senn & Beyers I have =D


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## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So is that engineers like Grado or the Ultra/Beyer/Senn?

 Im an engineer (though not sound XD) and I like the Senn & Beyers I have =D_

 

They like Beyer/Ultra/Senn and AKG. Like I remember just this past week reading about one reviewer raving about AKG, how good they were when he used them for mastering. 

 Example, Compare John Grado, how did he learn to make his headphones? Hanging out with his Uncle who had no academic training, and neither does John according to his bio, he was a criminal justice major. How did Florian König (Ultrasone Inventor) learn? Differences are vast and their goals different also.


----------



## sennsay

Thanks for that excellent and detailed review, Drosera, it makes me even more certain that I have made the right decision with ordering my Compass, especially since it will be often used as a DAC with my KHA amps, at least for starters. I'm keen as mustard to get my hands on it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Compass will definitely suit most of my listening requirements and those little points you make about it that are not quite so ... mm ... beneficial(?) to classical music may well be nullified with a few judicious mods, like PIO and/or Black Gate caps at some stage. Maybe an OPA Moon in there for those times? Interesting indeed, good onya. S-Man


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_THey like Beyer/Ultra/Senn and AKG. Like I remember just this past week reading about one reviewer raving about AKG, how good they were when he used them for mastering._

 

The most popular headphones among engineers usually come from those manufacturers that also make (their) microphones. So that's Beyer, AKG and Sennheiser.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that excellent and detailed review, Drosera, it makes me even more certain that I have made the right decision with ordering my Compass, especially since it will be often used as a DAC with my KHA amps, at least for starters. I'm keen as mustard to get my hands on it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Compass will definitely suit most of my listening requirements and those little points you make about it that are not quite so ... mm ... beneficial(?) to classical music may well be nullified with a few judicious mods, like PIO and/or Black Gate caps at some stage. Maybe an OPA Moon in there for those times? Interesting indeed, good onya. S-Man_

 

Hm, interesting suggestion. So I guess the Compass is up for modding after all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Keep us informed on that one, when you get 'round to it. Just remember, making it better suited to one kind of music, may make it perform less well with something else. There appear to be very clear trade-offs here.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The most popular headphones among engineers usually come from those manufacturers that also make (their) microphones. So that's Beyer, AKG and Sennheiser._

 

True but their preference for their headphones are justified also, not just hey I like their microphones, I'll use their headphones.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that excellent and detailed review, Drosera, it makes me even more certain that I have made the right decision with ordering my Compass, especially since it will be often used as a DAC with my KHA amps, at least for starters. I'm keen as mustard to get my hands on it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The Compass will definitely suit most of my listening requirements and those little points you make about it that are not quite so ... mm ... beneficial(?) to classical music may well be nullified with a few judicious mods, like PIO and/or Black Gate caps at some stage. Maybe an OPA Moon in there for those times? Interesting indeed, good onya. S-Man_

 

That seems inline with what Peete wants to do. Keep the old Compass for modding like that and new one un-modded. By the time you choose to do this, I'm sure there will be several DIY projects involving the Compass.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The most popular headphones among engineers usually come from those manufacturers that also make (their) microphones. So that's Beyer, AKG and Sennheiser.



 Hm, interesting suggestion. So I guess the Compass is up for modding after all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Keep us informed on that one, when you get 'round to it. Just remember, making it better suited to one kind of music, may make it perform less well with something else. There appear to be very clear trade-offs here._

 

A good point, although I would never mod anything to suit one style of music. The beauty of creating Frankie was that ALL music gained greatly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And, the Compass is already far ahead of what the Zero was as a stock device, both in reported sonics (from my own POV) and certainly in build quality. The Compass is certainly a very juicy project! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man


----------



## mbd2884

For fun, I did play TF2 today with the Compass. Hmm proved two things for me, had no problems playing with Compass. Second, Games sound is so overrated, as long as you can see, you can kill opponents.

 Downloaded Warhammer 40K, the 2006 version, not the new one, I'll wait until I build a gaming rig end of the year, if I'm up to it. Lately haven't been gaming much other than TF2 quick skirmishes. I quit WoW, tried to play a few other MMOs, completely sick of the entire genre, back to RTS casual fun. Hmm impressions of the Compass through Warhammer 40K, oh well, fun?


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Games sound is so overrated, as long as you can see, you can kill opponents._

 

That I can tackle with extensive experience. I played professionally for a few years in quite a few different games (UT2K4, BF2, BF2142, ET:QW), and now Ive played a lot of CS:S just for fun since "retirement".

 Sound is HUGE in gaming. Not as much in TF2 simply because, honestly, its a game that (at least when pubbed) is very chaotic, so chaotic that sound loses its value. But in 1v1 games like UT or Quake, it is absolutely, positively, unequivocally essential. You actually almost play more by sound than by sight with prediction shots based upon too many factors to diverge this thread with XD

 Its less important in team based games where respawning occurs within the round (TF2, BF, etc). But in games where the round ends before respawn (so you get only one life), sound is just as essential as it is in 1v1 games, this includes CS:S and COD.

 The most important aspect is accurate positioning. I will gladly sacrifice tonal accuracy and bass (especially bass since thats preferred lacking usually) in favor of accurate positioning. I hope to get a pair of K701s for gaming after I graduate since what I just described is basically those phones spot on


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_..snip..The Compass is simply amazing. It pairs a DAC that simply can't do anything wrong with an gorgeously detailed and exciting amp section. ..snip..._

 

That was a very nice review and a good read, it was detailed and organized 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The DAC itself I think is already worth more than what Kingwa is asking for the Compass. But the weak link for the compass would definitely be the amp part from what I garnered in this thread so far. I was thinking of maybe purchasing a C2C to go with the compass. The total would still not break the bank too much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just want to ask, in terms of SQ and design, to what SS amp can the C2C be compared to? Gilmore Lite? GS-1?

 Thanks


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That was a very nice review and a good read, it was detailed and organized 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The DAC itself I think is already worth more than what Kingwa is asking for the Compass. But the weak link for the compass would definitely be the amp part from what I garnered in this thread so far. I was thinking of maybe purchasing a C2C to go with the compass. The total would still not break the bank too much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks. I wouldn't exactly call the Compass amp-section the 'weak link'. I basically concluded that it does some things better than others. But I'm afraid the same will go for every amp available. But yes, apparently the C2C is even better. Especially if you would connect it to one of the higher end DACs of Audio-gd which would allow you to benefit from the balanced input and CAST-technology.

 EDIT: By the way, does anyone here know what is meant by the -80dB to 20dB gain that's quoted for the C2C?


----------



## sandchak

Look what happens when you report a little late for duty as a night watchman, seems like my partner at job has come up with some perfect stuff !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice review Drosera, I really like the way you went about the review - one part perfectly leading to another - clarity at its best.. if I compare Peete's review which was so full of passion then this one is all about perfection.. 

 Anyway, some great insights on Compass, Drosera - its such a pity I cant compare notes at this stage, but what you are talking about the gain part, it will be good if Kingwa can try that suggestion (not talking about another upgrade), but see for himself what effect it would have on his future plans for Compass and yes let us know about his findings..

 Three Cheers for Drosera ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 The DAC itself I think is already worth more than what Kingwa is asking for the Compass. But the weak link for the compass would definitely be the amp part from what I garnered in this thread so far. I was thinking of maybe purchasing a C2C to go with the compass. The total would still not break the bank too much 
 

Well, I wouldn't come to that conclusion right now, from whatever I have heard through Compass and whatever I have read thus far, including Drosera's review, I still feel the amp section actually is the trump card of Compass, going by my ears and Peete's of the preamp, you can get a clear picture of what I am saying.. even in this review, we are mostly looking at Classical form of music and Compass amp pitted against the strength of a well respected amp like Opera.. there is still a lot you can do with Compass in the lines of changing opamps and stuffs like that.. so as much as I agree with Droserra on his review, I dont conclude and I dont think neither does he conclude the amp section of the Compass as a weakness.. and finally I think the Compass as whole has raised the standard or the bar to a level that we are now comparing it with the strength of gears on a higher level - which actually only speaks volumes about Compass itself.. well all this IMHO..


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. I wouldn't exactly call the Compass amp-section the 'weak link'. I basically concluded that it does some things better than others. But I'm afraid the same will go for every amp available. But yes, apparently the C2C is even better. Especially if you would connect it to one of the higher end DACs of Audio-gd which would allow you to benefit from the CAST-technology._

 

Sorry for using "weak link" I couldn't find a better word to express what I meant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ah ok, will do some reading on what CAST means, I thought initially that it was synonymous with having a discrete design.

 So basically, the reference dac 1 and 3 are better pairs for the C2C. Unfortunately that would be beyond my budget right now


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for using "weak link" I couldn't find a better word to express what I meant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ah ok, will do some reading on what CAST means, I thought initially that it was synonymous with having a discrete design.

 So basically, the reference dac 1 and 3 are better pairs for the C2C. Unfortunately that would be beyond my budget right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Actually the DAC 19SE, is the cheapest CAST DAC in Audio GD's lineup.. so you can take a look at that too..


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually the DAC 19SE, is the cheapest CAST DAC in Audio GD's lineup.. so you can take a look at that too.._

 

Ah thanks looking at it now


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT: By the way, does anyone here know what is meant by the -80dB to 20dB gain that's quoted for the C2C?_

 

Ok, here is what it means.. since C2C uses CAST modules, this technology controls both volume and gain at the same time, meaning when the volume is set at minimum the gain is also minimum, which is -80db, at 12-o-clock volume the gain is -7db, and at max volume the gain is +15db.. (20db was a typo...)..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, here is what it means.. since C2C uses CAST modules, this technology controls both volume and gain at the same time, meaning when the volume is set at minimum the gain is also minimum, which is -80db, at 12-o-clock volume the gain is -7db, and at max volume the gain is +15db.. (20db was a typo...).._

 

Wow, thanks for that, that's intriguing. I certainly hope gain doesn't influence soundstage depth in this case then, otherwise things would get really weird.


----------



## Currawong

Fantastic review Drosera. It's great to finally have an idea how the Compass compares to a similar unit from another, well-known company. I'm glad someone has confirmed my impressions about the soundstage too.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fantastic review Drosera. It's great to finally have an idea how the Compass compares to a similar unit from another, well-known company. I'm glad someone has confirmed my impressions about the soundstage too._

 

Thanks!

 Thinking about this soundstage stuff some more, I actually think the amp of the Compass is by far the most honest one, it's just that sometimes it might be a bit _too_ honest for headphone listening. What the Corda Opera does, in contrast, is being very 'dishonest' and creating the illusion of a large soundstage. Through his experience, Jan Meier has learned to do this very sophisticated 'trick' really well and some types of music benefit hugely from it. After all, recorded music (regardless of what was used for monitoring) is never produced with headphone listening in mind (apart from binaural stuff, of course). The added feeling of a little distance to the music that you get from even an average speaker setup is simply not there with headphones. So it can really help if an amp tries to present the music in a way that's little more suitable to headphone listening.

 It's fascinating to be able to compare these different products from two designers with very different backgrounds.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *"From C2C Description* 
_No matter what kind of signal is input, it has the ability to transfer it to current signal and amplify it_

 

I thought initially that the CAST technology would only work for the C2C if the DAC also had cast


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think there'll be any fundamental changes. The changes in the soft settings, as far as I know, just require a few changes to resistors.
_

 

Actually the signal path for Neutral will be quite different, with an entire filter network being introduced. So where the Neutral setting used to be the "cleanest" path that most people preferred, it will now have a bunch of resistors and capacitors introduced. I will be very interested to hear the reviews. I wonder if any of the original 18 are getting another one of these next 30 shipped to compare the sound of the 2 Neutral modes.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually the signal path for Neutral will be quite different, with an entire filter network being introduced. So where the Neutral setting used to be the "cleanest" path that most people preferred, it will now have a bunch of resistors and capacitors introduced. I will be very interested to hear the reviews. I wonder if any of the original 18 are getting another one of these next 30 shipped to compare the sound of the 2 Neutral modes._

 

Sounds really scary, although I don't think that would be the case - but then we can wait and see the new board when it is ready..

  Quote:


 Dear Sandeep,
 Upgrade version has add a relay instead the jumps so can control the gain by a switch. 
 The sound DIY because need add a bright, so adjust the parts parameter.
 Kingwa 
 

From what I can understand - I dont see any bunch of resistors or caps being added anywhere.. maybe some change in the values of the components already there.. anyway, lets see the new board when is ready..


----------



## RedSky0

Is it possible to have some comparing and contrasting of the different OPAs (Earth, Moon, Sun) with the Compass? There have been some in this thread, but I would, and I'd imagine other people would appreciate some more since this is the main decision to make once you're deadset on getting one. Thanks


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For fun, I did play TF2 today with the Compass. Hmm proved two things for me, had no problems playing with Compass. Second, Games sound is so overrated, as long as you can see, you can kill opponents._

 

I agree with dBs that sound is very important in games, but not all games. Definitely true that TF2 doesn't really rely on sound. FPS single player games often benefit from it for directional cues and Left 4 Dead certainly does as well... just make sure you have L4D set to know you're using headphones and it makes quite a difference.


----------



## mbd2884

Actually L4D, sound was bit distracting I found, I turned down the sound and relied on communication with my gaming buddies. Sound often caused me to overreact to the situation, whereas with friends calling it out, we remained in the situation and completed the mission much faster.

 Though I do remember from the old days of CS, that sound was important as you could hear opponent and then wall bang him away, although that was cause of many friendly fire casualties I remember, lots of laughs.

 Also to whoever thinks the AD900 bass is lacking, try listening some UB40 and Massive Attack with them through the Compass, right now my right ear is almost feeling a dull pain from too much bass. AD900 plays bass when there is bass to be played, that's how I describe em. Labour of Love 1, 2, and 3 and Massive Attack's No Protection album, then come back and see if you need more bass. In that case, then I suggest an appointment with an ear specialist.

 Before my mom got caught up into the whole raving about Groban, Krall, Norah, summer used to almost always be accompanied by UB0 on the front porch when we ate outside, or making ice cream. So when I'm listening to UB40, yeah I feel like its summer, then I look outside, snow everywhere, darn.

 Reggae so far sounds good with the Compass. With UB40 I really like the bass guitar the most. 

 If what Oboe said is true, another reason to be thankful for owning one of the first 18.

 And damn, this thread just grows and grows as if the forum has been deprived of forum posts lately.

 Drosera, still can't believe how large the Compass is when I see it next to to your Opera. I would have expected the Opera to be much larger 
 - Also Drosera, since you preferred Compass DAC, just thought, the DACMagic may not be up to to snuff for you either, using the same D/A as the Opera. That the next step for you would be those PCM1704 instead, gotta save more money if you want significant difference for you then it looks like.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I can understand - I dont see any bunch of resistors or caps being added anywhere.. maybe some change in the values of the components already there.. anyway, lets see the new board when is ready.._

 

The circuit that used to be added for the Soft 1 setting is now assigned to Neutral. If he is not changing the values in that filter , then he must be making the normal (non-jumpered) sound to be inversely proportional to that filter so that he ends up back at neutral. Since we really don't know what the changes are yet in the new version, it is hard to say what any of this means. The one thing we _can_ say is that unless he made an entirely new circuit board, the neutral setting will be passing through a filter that it wasn't before (based on the new jumper settings).

 Of course, this may sound better or worse or different, but it is very unlikely it will be identical to the non-filtered neutral sound... so.. I await the reviews!


----------



## dBs

couldnt he just change a single trace route going from the old soft 1 to the current neutral? That would be my approach so as to minimize the amount of altering I would have to do. The new "sharp" setting on the other hand will have an active element in order to alter its Bode plot since a resistor has no effect on that aspect unless its associated with an op amp.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The circuit that used to be added for the Soft 1 setting is now assigned to Neutral. If he is not changing the values in that filter , then he must be making the normal (non-jumpered) sound to be inversely proportional to that filter so that he ends up back at neutral. Since we really don't know what the changes are yet in the new version, it is hard to say what any of this means. The one thing we can say is that unless he made an entirely new circuit board, the neutral setting will be passing through a filter that it wasn't before (based on the new jumper settings).

 Of course, this may sound better or worse or different, but it is very unlikely it will be identical to the non-filtered neutral sound... so.. I await the reviews!_

 

I think this picture is with the bright mode and 13/19db gain.. but I don't see a relay for the gain.. so maybe the actual board pic will be different.. I am kind of confused now.. did the original Compass come with a bright mode??.


----------



## csroc

No bright mode on the original Compass. I too am curious how much the headphone amp board has changed. Has anyone asked for a pic and an explanation of the new board?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually L4D, sound was bit distracting I found, I turned down the sound and relied on communication with my gaming buddies. Sound often caused me to overreact to the situation, whereas with friends calling it out, we remained in the situation and completed the mission much faster._

 

I have the in-game sound turned down as well with the voice communications all the way up... but the sound is still useful, particularly when trying to find the special infected that are lurking around you. I turned the sound down for two reasons though, one was to hear my teammates better when we're using voice and the other was the weapons fire is loud and piercing and was starting to annoy my ears.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No bright mode on the original Compass. I too am curious how much the headphone amp board has changed. Has anyone asked for a pic and an explanation of the new board?_

 

I asked him once about the changes in new board, and his reply I posted above ( saying he only added a relay so that gain can be changed from outside with the help of a switch and changed some values of resistors to accommodate the bright mode) .. maybe I'll ask him if he can give us the pic of the new board, but in the picture I just posted it has bright mode too, so presumably thats the new board, but then I don't see a relay for changing the gains as it will be done by an external switch, also it says 13/19db, which means its not according to the latest specs which is 9/15db..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Drosera, still can't believe how large the Compass is when I see it next to to your Opera. I would have expected the Opera to be much larger_

 

The Opera is slightly wider than the Compass, but the Compass is deeper. Also, the Compass is slightly better filled with components. But that's what you would expect from Audio-gd.
 The Symphony is slightly bigger again than the Opera, but still far from being a monster. It's certainly dwarfed by any of the more interesting Audio-gd DACs.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_- Also Drosera, since you preferred Compass DAC, just thought, the DACMagic may not be up to to snuff for you either, using the same D/A as the Opera. That the next step for you would be those PCM1704 instead, gotta save more money if you want significant difference for you then it looks like._

 

Meh, I'm not interested at all in the DACMagic. I doubt it will be much of an upgrade over the Compass DAC anyways and it's been reviewed as very analytical and unmusical, exactly what I'm not looking for.
 I'm actually most interested in the Reference Two which has the DAC7 chip-pairs (SAA7350 & TDA1547). Apparently its a very organic and somewhat warm sounding DAC. (Although it's hard to find much information about this rarely used converter chip.)
 Still, my financial situation has to improve significantly first, before I can realize that particular dream.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm actually most interested in the Reference Two which has the DAC7 chip-pairs (SAA7350 & TDA1547). Apparently its a very organic and somewhat warm sounding DAC. (Although it's hard to find much information about this rarely used converter chip.)_

 

My Marantz CD player uses those DAC chips, does it mean the reference two share the same sound signature - because on its own the CD17 sound very musical and slightly laid back.. of course its no comparison to Reference two, but I am only talking about the sound signature..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Marantz CD player uses those DAC chips, does it mean the reference two share the same sound signature - because on its own the CD17 sound very musical and slightly laid back.. of course its no comparison to Reference two, but I am only talking about the sound signature.._

 

I don't know, hard to guess. Maybe a similar signature, but better??
 I'm also going by the quote on the website that says that it was "Mr. He's long cherished wish" to build a DAC based on this converter chip. That sortof tells me that it should be good too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Oh well, I'll still have a long time to think about it. In the end it will mainly be the finances that will dictate which DAC I'll end up with.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know, hard to guess. Maybe a similar signature, but better??
 I'm also going by the quote on the website that says that it was "Mr. He's long cherished wish" to build a DAC based on this converter chip. That sortof tells me that it should be good too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Oh well, I'll still have a long time to think about it. In the end it will mainly be the finances that will dictate which DAC I'll end up with._

 

Yeah it seems its going to be quite a historical moment when you finally buy the Reference Two DAC ..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah it seems its going to be quite a historical moment when you finally buy the Reference Two DAC ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, twenty years from now or something. I'll ask Kingwa if he will set one aside for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Great Reference will come, someday.... Until that time I'll keep serenely burning my incense, knowing that one day...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete (or any of the Compass-18):
 Do you think the Compass, fed flac files from a pc, is decent enough to warrant upgrading the HD650 cables? I've been wondering about this, since recently acquiring a pair (proof positive that alcohol and head-fi are a dangerous combination). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm definitely enjoying them, and really like having a contrast to the DT-880._

 


 The only system I feel that requires the cable change is a balanced setup. You have to go with a different cable in that scenario so it might as well be a high quality one. Outside of that it's tough for me to recommend a cable upgrade for a modest system. It's difficult to judge if the aural benefit will fit the cost. I'm sorry if that is of no help. The reality is you'll have to make the decision if it's ultimately worth the cost in the end. In my case it was (but I bought a DIY cable used to offset the cost as much as possible).


 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Cable upgrades are a subjective thing. If you can try some out with a no risk returns policy that's for the best. Decide for yourself if they make a difference and whether that difference justifies the often ridiculous price.


----------



## edselfordfong

Since we're talking about Kingwa's other DACs, I'm a bit confused about them. (Still thinking about a DAC for my father and whether he should get a compass or something else. We've determined that he's going to use the DAC with his X-can v2 and HD-650s, so I'm thinking about a stand alone DAC rather than a compass.) 

 Where do you see the reference two?

 Kingwa told me that the 19-SE and Reference three would be more neutral, and to look at the 3SE for a warmer sound. But now I see that the 19SE has chip options. Anyone have an idea in the signature differences between the PCM1704UK x 2 and PCM1702K x 4 options?

 I can't understand this CAST thing, despite looking at his site and elsewhere. Someone mentioned above that it is designed to be beneficial even when not connected to another CAST component. Is that so? How does that work? What am I missing? 

 I'm thinking that its better value not to buy a CAST type DAC if you're not going to use it with other cast components. Am I wrong?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Great job Drosera on the review. 


 Just some points of interest to ponder...


 One item I feel is critical to giving everything a level playing field is using an SPL meter to set levels accurately between amps and recordings. 

 My review covered the 2 channel traditional stereo pathway with Part III covering the head fi aspect of listening. The two are very different in that imaging and sound staging are entirely different results. The headphone experience is difficult to reconcile vs the traditional stereo performance in this key area. 

 One of the major weak spots with all headphone listening up to this point in time (K1000 and HD800 not withstanding) is in these areas (IMO at least). There is a big gulf in perception between the 2 types of listening because of that (using the same gear, the Compass in this case). I found nothing lacking in SS with the traditional arrangement and thus conclude the failure in this area during headphone use has more to do with the headphones than the electronics delivering the signals.

 The front to back layering, image width and height are all beyond the edges of the LFT VIIIB's with plenty of separation and good tracking of panned vocals instruments etc....in any event I wonder if the 800's Curra has on order will either reinforce this assertion of confirm the accepted one WRT headphones in general. I'm hoping the 800's do make a breakthrough in this area because I find it's the biggest drawback to Head Fi ...I guess Sennheiser must as well since they really made a conscious effort to get the drivers aligned in a moire natural listening fashion (along the same lines as traditional stereo and how we listen to it/perceive it).

 Thanks for the hard work and please don't take what I say as negative commentary !!! As I write Part III (ongoing) what I have observed between the 2 types of listening can color the perception the unit pretty drastically. At this point I'm not sure if that's a negative or positive WRT the Compass as it now stands. It certainly shows from which field the engineering has come from though, the traditional side of the fence. IMO though that's the best direction to attack this from. As Curra has expressed to me the C2C is a better overall experience for headphone monitoring. That should be a given. 


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

One other key aspect of recording is the difference between small scale close mic'ed in a controlled acoustic environment (the studio) vs the large scale aspect of recording a large symphony in a venue that is less than ideal for capturing each instrument in it's best light. 
 Add into that the complexity of mic'ing such an event accurately and you have all kinds of compromises and trade offs with classical that amplified music simply doesn't have to deal with.

 Another factor today and 40 years ago when classical took a popularity nose dive, is the amount of money spent on production values....in classical's heyday, the 50's, big name labels spent huge sums of money to get it as right as possible whereas today the budgets for that genre have shrunk considerably. Ironically the digital revolution actually made such events easier to record but with mixed results among the audiophiles that feel that Mercury Living presence, RCA Red Seal and other such high quality recordings were the absolute peak of the analog recording craft for this genre. Rightly so I should add.

 Just a few more things to think about when trying to reconcile the vast differences there are from classical recordings old and modern vs it's highly controlled, amplified cousin.

 Some classical recordings have been captured in a studio-like environment but the same issue crops up every single time....the amount and number of channels needed for close mic'ing is problematic and hugely expensive to pull off. Bleed through is another problem that can't be dealt with efficiently without drastic measures that frankly would be such an editing/mixdown nightmare that to do it that way would simply cost too much and take way to long. The results might be equally disasterous at the end of the day so your back top square one.

 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

In light of your observations, be great if there was a list of classical music with proper recording.

 I mean its easy and fun to find well recorded solo projects like YoYoMa, Vanessa Mae, Winston, but to full out orchestra, that's tough considering how many CDs one can buy of the exact same Bach, Mozart piece by various orchestras around the world and then the studio orchestras, very confusing. Which is probably why I will start with just recordings of the Berlin and Vienna Philharmonic.

 Offtopic - Haven't had this much fun with RTS since Starcraft with Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War I, will probably get to Dark Crusade end of the week. So far very very fun, hilarious.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*[size=large]The Audio-gd Compass vs. the Meier-Audio Corda Opera[/size]*

 There actually is a noticeable hum to the power supply of the Compass. However, it's not really annoying and it's doubtful if you would ever notice it while wearing headphones. In fact, I only noticed that it was actually still audible at half a meter distance when I switched off my computer to do the review-listening.

 Well, that's it for now. Constructive criticism will be appreciated._

 

Great review, Drosera! Can you share any insights comparing and contrasting with the DT880/250 Earth vs. DT880/250 Moon setups? Other music genres, such as R&B, dance and electronica would be interesting.

 BTW, has the "noticeable hum to the power supply" been brought to Kingwa's attention? Is this a shielding or insulation issue? Have the other Compass-18 testers noticed this hum? Hopefully, it can be addressed before the v2a / Upgrade Version units are shipped out.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In light of your observations, be great if there was a list of classical music with proper recording.

 I mean its easy and fun to find well recorded solo projects like YoYoMa, Vanessa Mae, Winston, but to full out orchestra, that's tough considering how many CDs one can buy of the exact same Bach, Mozart piece by various orchestras around the world and then the studio orchestras, very confusing. Which is probably why I will start with just recordings of the Berlin and Vienna Philharmonic.

 Offtopic - Haven't had this much fun with RTS since Starcraft with Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War I, will probably get to Dark Crusade end of the week. So far very very fun, hilarious._

 

It's just illustrates how difficult it is to judge any large scale stuff and actually points out how given an exact piece of music spread among several venues and symphonies makes it near impossible to tell what rendition (artist and recording wise) is correct and what isn't.

 The recording engineers in all of these cases are the ones that have the true perspective and I think it would help greatly if the details of how these performances are captured is made known. Naturally if that information were known in the liner notes that would be of great help to the listener trying to figure what perspective it is played back from. A reference point if you will.

 For instance is an amp that gives the genre a similar treatment regardless of recording parameters better than the amp that is closer to what was actually captured even if that perspective sounds unnatural from a listeners point of view (likely formed by a specific seated position at a live performance ) ? 

 With classical recordings it's not an either or kind of choice. Just further food for thought.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

My unit is quiet as a mouse. Line voltage is often as high as 128V and rarely if ever dips below 126V 60hz cycle.

 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

The more I listen to the moon the more I think it was made with the ancient Chinese poet Li Bai in mind. According to popular legend, he was drinking and thinking that the moon's reflection on the water was actually the moon fell from his boat and drowned. Okay, maybe that doesn't sound so poetic to you, his famous poem about the moon might be better Li Po: Alone and Drinking Under the Moon. I always thought it was a cheesy story people told me as a kid to deter me from drinking, but after ~200 hours with the moon I think I understand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I can hear a small hum when I turn off everything else and have my headphones off and am ~3 feet or closer, it is extremely minor though.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My unit is quiet as a mouse. Line voltage is often as high as 128V and rarely if ever dips below 126V 60hz cycle.

 Peete._

 

That's good to hear, Peete. Maybe the Dutch power lines are not as clean as the Canadian ones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Drosera, are you using a power line conditioner or surge suppressor in your setup? Or I wonder if the hum is noticeable only in the higher 220-240V power supplies?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hum from the transformer can also be a result of DC V present in the AC line. That's a possibility. 

 Try different outlets around the house. Make a note of what else is plugged in those circuits. Heavy motors/compressors from freezers/heating (furnace etc)/Dryers/refridgerators/Stoves/Microwaves etc etc...can pollute your lines locally. I'm not sure what injects DC into an AC line off hand but I do know that's another possible reason for mechanical hum from the transformer other than excessive line V.

 I do know Kingwa spec'd the highest rated transformers for the Compass 120V/240V which is pretty rare even among some well known brands that use 115/230 or 117/234 primaries.

 Of course gear made for N America may use 120V exclusively but even then it's not a 100% certainty when you look at transformer suppliers specs for the regular stuff (not custom order). The most common is 115V/230V.

 Peete.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's just illustrates how difficult it is to judge any large scale stuff and actually points out how given an exact piece of music spread among several venues and symphonies makes it near impossible to tell what rendition (artist and recording wise) is correct and what isn't._

 

And different artists/conductors/orchestras have different interpretations of the music as written on the page, so, for me and maybe for others its a matter of personal choice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




? Accurately reproducing the various interpretations is another can of worms imo


----------



## No_One411

Thanks for the great review on the compass Drosera!

 Its nice to see such a unit beat out another one that is more expensive. You basically solidified my decision to buy the compass. One thing i'm confused on though. I don't think its the same typo since you repeated the same model later on. Is the K500 really a model? I was under the impression that there was the k501. Sorry if this question is off topic. Just wanted to clarify.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And different artists/conductors/orchestras have different interpretations of the music as written on the page, so, for me and maybe for others its a matter of personal choice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




? Accurately reproducing the various interpretations is another can of worms imo_

 

Absolutely DC. Just one of many cans....


 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa told me that the 19-SE and Reference three would be more neutral, and to look at the 3SE for a warmer sound. But now I see that the 19SE has chip options. Anyone have an idea in the signature differences between the PCM1704UK x 2 and PCM1702K x 4 options?_

 

I'm wondering this too. Won't be too long before I find out though. The Nakamichi I was blown away by had 4x.

  Quote:


 I can't understand this CAST thing, despite looking at his site and elsewhere. Someone mentioned above that it is designed to be beneficial even when not connected to another CAST component. Is that so? How does that work? What am I missing? 

 I'm thinking that its better value not to buy a CAST type DAC if you're not going to use it with other cast components. Am I wrong? 
 

I think you're right. I gather it's a high voltage connection between components, designed to eliminate issues with interconnects, in much the same way that AES/EBU digital connections are better than coaxial because of their high voltage.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great job Drosera on the review._

 

Thanks, Peete!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One item I feel is critical to giving everything a level playing field is using an SPL meter to set levels accurately between amps and recordings._

 

I tried to do it to the best of my ability without such a device before starting on the review. I realize a proper SPL meter would have made things more dependable. Then again, I think the major points I noticed were obvious enough not to be caused by slight differences in SPL.

 How do you measure SPL when reviewing the Compass as a headamp? Straight from the headphone jack, or with the meter between the pads of the headphone? 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My review covered the 2 channel traditional stereo pathway with Part III covering the head fi aspect of listening. The two are very different in that imaging and sound staging are entirely different results. The headphone experience is difficult to reconcile vs the traditional stereo performance in this key area._

 

Oh yeah, please don't misread my review on this point. My comparison with your review was not about _what_ you reviewed precisely, but about the difference in style of reviewing. I just noticed in my work that I was mainly noting down a lot of negative points and not saying much about my enjoyment of the Compass (and the Corda Opera) and I didn't want people to misinterpret this as lack of enthousiasm on my part about the Compass.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One of the major weak spots with all headphone listening up to this point in time (K1000 and HD800 not withstanding) is in these areas (IMO at least). There is a big gulf in perception between the 2 types of listening because of that (using the same gear, the Compass in this case). I found nothing lacking in SS with the traditional arrangement and thus conclude the failure in this area during headphone use has more to do with the headphones than the electronics delivering the signals._

 

I actually don't think anything is 'lacking' in the strictest sense either. It's just that to convey a soundstage through headphones might take a little more trickery. I had thought of also reviewing it with my regular speaker setup. But unfortunately that is distinctly budget-fi, and I wouldn't really have known where the cause of possible limitations might lie. Also, my Compass doesn't have a preamp function, so it might not have been very relevant anyways.

 I must say I rather doubt that the development of the HD800 will be a milestone in this department, or at least a milestone similar to the K1000. I haven't heard much about the exceptional soundstaging capabilities of the HD800, mainly about its balanced and natural sound. (But maybe I missed it, I haven't been following it too closely.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the hard work and please don't take what I say as negative commentary !!! As I write Part III (ongoing) what I have observed between the 2 types of listening can color the perception the unit pretty drastically. At this point I'm not sure if that's a negative or positive WRT the Compass as it now stands. It certainly shows from which field the engineering has come from though, the traditional side of the fence. IMO though that's the best direction to attack this from. As Curra has expressed to me the C2C is a better overall experience for headphone monitoring. That should be a given._

 

I've no doubt that the C2C will best the Compass in transparency, and I've not found the Compass to be lacking at all in that department. But will the C2C also throw a bigger soundstage?

 With many others here, I'm enormously looking forward to your upcoming Part III. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another factor today and 40 years ago when classical took a popularity nose dive, is the amount of money spent on production values....in classical's heyday, the 50's, big name labels spent huge sums of money to get it as right as possible whereas today the budgets for that genre have shrunk considerably. Ironically the digital revolution actually made such events easier to record but with mixed results among the audiophiles that feel that Mercury Living presence, RCA Red Seal and other such high quality recordings were the absolute peak of the analog recording craft for this genre. Rightly so I should add._

 

Actually, the changes in the way classical recordings were managed from the '60s onwards also had a lot to do with the type of people that became head of the respective record companies. Where earlier they were mostly classical music enthousiasts themselves who knew how the classical music market works, later on they more and more came from areas of business that weren't even related to music. That resulted in a change in attitude, because where first classical recordings were rightly seen as long term investments which would recoop their cost through decade long steady sales, they now were seen as something that should render an almost immediate profit, just like in the popular music field. 
 I don't think you should make it seem like classical recording has never achieved the standards that were set in the 1950's. I will agree that, especially late 50's early stereo recordings can be of amazing quality and what was achieved there is of a relative extremely high standard. But thankfully through the years great recordings have rather consistently been made. (Although I also agree that results tended to become more and more mixed.)


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've no doubt that the C2C will best the Compass in transparency, and I've not found the Compass to be lacking at all in that department. But will the C2C also throw a bigger soundstage?_

 

Oh yes, it does, noticeably. With the C2C, I strongly suspect it's a lot better than I've given it credit for, as every time I upgraded something, whether it be switching DACs, better ICs or power cords, I could clearly hear an improvement. I have the rough idea of a plan to see if I can't compare it to one of the Luxman HP amps, by offering the local Stax and Luxman dealer a chance to listen to HD-800s. My Japanese isn't so great, but I'll try asking next time I drive by. I'll be able to try them with a seriously expensive Esoteric CD player as the source, so I'll get to really find out how far the C2C can go, if they are interested.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh yes, it does, noticeably. With the C2C, I strongly suspect it's a lot better than I've given it credit for, as every time I upgraded something, whether it be switching DACs, better ICs or power cords, I could clearly hear an improvement. I have the rough idea of a plan to see if I can't compare it to one of the Luxman HP amps, by offering the local Stax and Luxman dealer a chance to listen to HD-800s. My Japanese isn't so great, but I'll try asking next time I drive by. I'll be able to try them with a seriously expensive Esoteric CD player as the source, so I'll get to really find out how far the C2C can go, if they are interested._

 

Curra, if I recollect clearly you have a ST3 too, how do you think it stacks up against the Compass HP section?? because I clearly remember Kingwa saying that according to him the Compass performed better than ST3..

 I agree with Peete that sound stage can be very different through Headphones and through conventional speakers, I started out with 701s as my first serious headphones which was reviewed to have a great sound stage, but it was a very different experience comparing both, so it might well be in Peetes Part III review, where he delves more into the HP section will be quite different (aspect of sound stage) than the Part II where he reviewed Compass basically on his reference gear which was based on listening through speakers..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In light of your observations, be great if there was a list of classical music with proper recording.

 I mean its easy and fun to find well recorded solo projects like YoYoMa, Vanessa Mae, Winston, but to full out orchestra, that's tough considering how many CDs one can buy of the exact same Bach, Mozart piece by various orchestras around the world and then the studio orchestras, very confusing. Which is probably why I will start with just recordings of the Berlin and Vienna Philharmonic._

 

Don't misconstrue this complaining about the classical recording industry to mean that there are a lot of bad classical recordings. Actually, there aren't. *****ups like Metallica's Death Magnetic (what a stupid title anyways) simply do not occur. The quality varies from quite okay to excellent. (That is, recordings that were made in the Western world, recordings made in the Soviet Union for example are a different matter entirely.) I actually think you should be far more worried about getting an interesting interpretation of a certain piece, than about the recording quality.

 Going by symphony orchestra seems to me rather silly. Although the Vienna Philharmonic have received pretty decent recordings, the Berlin Philharmonic has always struggled a little with finding a good recording location. (And this still shouldn't deter you from getting their recordings.)
 If you must have top of the line stuff, it's better to get it from labels which are renowned for recording quality. MDG and Telarc immediately spring to mind.
 There are certain things to stay away from though. For example, there's Eloquence, a budget rerelease label of Universal Music, which releases older recordings in some really weird pseudo-surround remixes. They're attrocious. (Whereas the original recordings were usually quite good.)

 Jokingly I could also advise you to start with the recordings I selected for my review, because I chose them for their recording quality. It's only in retrospect that I realised that that might have biased my review a little as well. Because when listening to less than ideally recorded classical music, the Compass can often be a better listen because of its higher resolving capabilities.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No_One411* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the great review on the compass Drosera!

 Its nice to see such a unit beat out another one that is more expensive. You basically solidified my decision to buy the compass. One thing i'm confused on though. I don't think its the same typo since you repeated the same model later on. Is the K500 really a model? I was under the impression that there was the k501. Sorry if this question is off topic. Just wanted to clarify._

 

Yes K500 is the model, although its now been discontinued by AKG.

 PS. Since I see Drosera involved in a serious discussion, I thought I'll take over the lighter part, although this question was addressed to him..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great review, Drosera! Can you share any insights comparing and contrasting with the DT880/250 Earth vs. DT880/250 Moon setups? Other music genres, such as R&B, dance and electronica would be interesting._

 

I might do some comparison of Moon and Earth setups later on, but I doubt I will be using the DT880. I might leave that to people who actually like that 'phone. I don't think I can do a fair evaluation of it. The thing I can say about it right now is that the differences in soundstage are far less noticeable with the DT880 than with the K500, simply because the DT880 has a far smaller soundstage to begin with. (And anyways, it's of very little relevance to the music you mentioned in general.)

 Jeez, R&B, dance, electronica... First it's Vanessa Mae, now this. It's bad for my soul! Joking aside (am I joking?), I don't think it's very relevant actually. First of all, I don't listen to that stuff anyways, so I wouldn't know what to listen for. (This is the politically correct version.) But actually I don't see the point anyways, if it works with the amplified music I listened to, it will work for other kinds as well. Frankly, there isn't that much difference between them.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, has the "noticeable hum to the power supply" been brought to Kingwa's attention? Is this a shielding or insulation issue? Have the other Compass-18 testers noticed this hum? Hopefully, it can be addressed before the v2a / Upgrade Version units are shipped out._

 

Yes, others have noticed the hum as well, but it's hardly noticeable and not very relevant because of this. Many power supplies hum a little, it's no biggie. Maybe it's inherent, maybe it's a grid problem (I don't think so, in my case). It doesn't really matter. Don't worry about it.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No_One411* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the great review on the compass Drosera!

 Its nice to see such a unit beat out another one that is more expensive. You basically solidified my decision to buy the compass. One thing i'm confused on though. I don't think its the same typo since you repeated the same model later on. Is the K500 really a model? I was under the impression that there was the k501. Sorry if this question is off topic. Just wanted to clarify._

 

Thanks!

 No, it's not a typo. The K500 preceded the K501 and many people who have compared the two consider the K500 to be superior. It has better bass response, a wider soundstage and more natural highs. A lot of this is actually not due to the difference in drivers, but because the pads used on the K500 are much better.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Don't think Drosera that I'm complaining I was just trying to point out how hard it is to know what the SS should be for any given classical recording of a large scale event in a not so optimum environment without a little information from the engineers that recorded it. I for one wish this kind of info was posted for all genres in the liner notes.

 Level matching with the 650's is pretty straight forward. I just held the meter perpendicular to the L driver element about 3/4 of an inch away from the cloth covering (over the element inside the ear cushion) to replicate the distance my ear would be if I was wearing them. Dead center in the ear cup. I would then play a track on the test CD that I knew had the largest peaks on it. Set the weighting for C and fast mode to judge average level vs momentary peaks. Adjust the Compass volume to find the level I wanted then begin the evaluation.

 Once again I feel you did a great job with your review Drosera, thanks !!!. It's a lot of work putting these reports together (as I'm finding out the hard way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh yes, it does, noticeably. With the C2C, I strongly suspect it's a lot better than I've given it credit for, as every time I upgraded something, whether it be switching DACs, better ICs or power cords, I could clearly hear an improvement. I have the rough idea of a plan to see if I can't compare it to one of the Luxman HP amps, by offering the local Stax and Luxman dealer a chance to listen to HD-800s. My Japanese isn't so great, but I'll try asking next time I drive by. I'll be able to try them with a seriously expensive Esoteric CD player as the source, so I'll get to really find out how far the C2C can go, if they are interested._

 

I'm kinda relieved to hear you say this. That means that I will certainly not scratch the C2C off my list of future investments.
 I would be very interested in hearing more impressions of this intriguing "Krell"-like headamp.

 Do you think the slightly elevated bass response you noted earlier for the C2C is really problematic? Or is this also very dependent on the type of headphone used?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't think Drosera that I'm complaining I was just trying to point out how hard it is to know what the SS should be for any given classical recording of a large scale event in a not so optimum environment without a little information from the engineers that recorded it. I for one wish this kind of info was posted for all genres in the liner notes._

 

Well, I just wouldn't want other people to misinterpret what you were saying about the history of classical recording. (I think we actually completely agree on this issue.)
 Yes, SS is a problematic concept anyways. Although usually the recording dates and venue are indicated in the liner notes with classical music these days. (This is being done with rereleases of earlier analog recordings on cd's as well. Which is a good thing, because usually that information was missing on the original LP releases.) But a little more info on the circumstances would be welcome. Things are also very dependent on both the approach of the engineers and producers and on personal listening preferences. Just yesterday I was listening to Rach 3 by Volodos/Berliner Philharmoniker/Levine (Sony), a recording that's quite muddy and that suffers from a rather cramped soundstage to begin with and it turned out I greatly preferred the more detailed presentation of the Compass amp to the way the Opera presented it. The greater soundstaging abilities of the Opera become a rather moot point in such cases.

 I'm actually beginning to think that it's best to have several good headamps available and choose between them based on the particular recording you're going to listen to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Once again I feel you did a great job with your review Drosera, thanks !!!. It's a lot of work putting these reports together (as I'm finding out the hard way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 

Thanks again! A lot of work? Yeah, you can say that again. I think it took me at least two or three full days to put even that 'smaller' review together. First there's the time-consuming reviewing process, subsequently at least as much time goes into making it into something resembling an understandable and readable whole.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Curra, if I recollect clearly you have a ST3 too, how do you think it stacks up against the Compass HP section?? because I clearly remember Kingwa saying that according to him the Compass performed better than ST3.._

 

The ST3 boosts the bass a little, which is great with HD-600s and the Grado HF-1s I tried. It's not so great with ED9s or my Denons. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm kinda relieved to hear you say this. That means that I will certainly not scratch the C2C off my list of future investments.
 I would be very interested in hearing more impressions of this intriguing "Krell"-like headamp.

 Do you think the slightly elevated bass response you noted earlier for the C2C is really problematic? Or is this also very dependent on the type of headphone used?_

 

See above, as it has the same sound signature as the ST3. 

 I think what Kingwa means by "Krell" is, there are a few, very well known audio circuit designs that are known to work very well in amplifiers. The design he uses primarily is one of them, which is also used by makers such as Krell and Mark Levison (and many others). I imagine that his idea is that he can match the quality of many famous companies without you having to pay for the brand name.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ST3 boosts the bass a little, which is great with HD-600s and the Grado HF-1s I tried. It's not so great with ED9s or my Denons. 
 See above, as it has the same sound signature as the ST3. 

 I think what Kingwa means by "Krell" is, there are a few, very well known audio circuit designs that are known to work very well in amplifiers. The design he uses primarily is one of them, which is also used by makers such as Krell and Mark Levison (and many others). I imagine that his idea is that he can match the quality of many famous companies without you having to pay for the brand name._

 

Hm, I would have preferred it to be completely neutral... Maybe Kingwa can tweak it a little on request. I doubt it would be a really objectionable thing anyways with most open headphones.

 Oh, I actually called it Krell-like just because that's the first brand name that springs to mind when CAST-technology is mentioned.


----------



## mbd2884

For me I think the next step up from the Compass is still Audio-gd for me.

 Reference 3 > C2C = Drool profusely.

 I really want the PCM1704!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me I think the next step up from the Compass is still Audio-gd for me.

 Reference 3 > C2C = Drool profusely.

 I really want the PCM1704!_

 

Hey, whatever happened to Mr. I'm-so-satisfied-with-my-Compass-I-want-to-stay-midfi?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Head-fi is bad for you.


----------



## sandchak

It seems like Kinwa is opening a new section his forum (in english), maybe people can ask in that forum about gears he sells but have no clue as to how it sounds, I am sure there are many Chinese people who have used his higher end gears, and could be of some help..
 btw, the Upgraded Compass HP board should be up on his website today or tomorrow..


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me I think the next step up from the Compass is still Audio-gd for me.

 Reference 3 > C2C = Drool profusely.

 I really want the PCM1704!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, whatever happened to Mr. I'm-so-satisfied-with-my-Compass-I-want-to-stay-midfi?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Head-fi is bad for you._

 

I was also thinking of going this route instead of the compass. It's still midfi if you compare it to Reference 1 > C2C 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think someone was asking about the options in the DAC 19SE

  Quote:


 Different of PCM1702K and PCM1704UK:

 Use PCM1704*2 can have more dynamic and clear.

 Use PCM1702*4 can let the sound be warm.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was also thinking of going this route instead of the compass. It's still midfi if you compare it to Reference 1 > C2C 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sure, sure, ...and if I don't buy the _most_ expensive cd player from Wadia, I'm still midfi right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think Reference One/Two/Three ---> C2C (balanced connection!) is certainly a combination that should be able to keep you satisfied for a very long time. (It's actually the combo I'm dreaming of as well.)

 I hope Currawong can do some more impressions of how the C2C scales with more esoteric equipment. (Bribing shopkeepers with his HD800's. LOL)


----------



## insyte

Is the reference 3 also balanced? 

 But anyway, according to this email, there might be a better amp to pair with the reference 1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


 Dear Insyte,
 Yes, I plan to release a balanced SS headphone amplifier around May.
 It has two classis box, one is amp another is power supply.
 Kingwa 
 





 The English Forum


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the reference 3 also balanced?_

 

Funny, it also occurred to me that I'm not quite sure about that. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But anyway, according to this email, there might be a better amp to pair with the reference 1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ha, I knew that wouldn't take long! Still, I think I prefer a non-balanced headamp for the moment. I don't really feel like reterminating all the headphones. (And making them unsuitable for use with my other amps.) Or does he simply mean a headamp with balanced _input_, which I also suspected was in the works, because of the C2C being on sale.


----------



## insyte

I also asked Kingwa about the difference between the DAC 19SE and Reference 3. 

  Quote:


 Dear insyte,
 The different of DAC19 and Reference Three are follow:
 1,DAC19 use HDCD filter chips PMD100. Reference Three use our DSP1 perform filter and dispose data.
 2,DAC19 use old current transfer technology to dispost anagloy signal, Reference Three usr new current transfer technology.
 Kingwa 
 

I'm curious about DAC 19SE because it is still cheaper than the Reference 3. The 19SE is more within my budget, I will really have to stretch a bit if I want the Reference 3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Compass --> C2C combo is also looking very very good to me now pricewise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW why is the PCM1704UK a good dac chip?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also asked Kingwa about the difference between the DAC 19SE and Reference 3. 

 I'm curious about DAC 19SE because it is still cheaper than the Reference 3. The 19SE is more within my budget, I will really have to stretch a bit if I want the Reference 3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Compass --> C2C combo is also looking very very good to me now pricewise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If these are the only differences that would mean the Reference Three has balanced output as well. (As far as I can see from the picture, there are balanced outputs on the DAC19SE. 

 One of the most important differences would be the inclusion of the DSP-1 module in the Reference Three. It's a reclocking module that apparently reduces jitter to such a degree that coupling it with a good (expensive) transport becomes (almost) unnecessary.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the reference 3 also balanced? 

 But anyway, according to this email, there might be a better amp to pair with the reference 1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, but that amp I think would cost anything between USD800 - 1300..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so its not actually in competition with C2C, its altogether a different level..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, but that amp I think would cost anything between USD800 - 1300..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so its not actually in competition with C2C, its altogether a different level.._

 

Ah, the β22-killer from Audio-gd. Wow, and we don't even have to wait very long for that one.

 Does Kingwa ever take a rest? He must be designing in his sleep.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If these are the only differences that would mean the Reference Three has balanced output as well. (As far as I can see from the picture, there are balanced outputs on the DAC19SE. 

 One of the most important differences would be the inclusion of the DSP-1 module in the Reference Three. It's a reclocking module that apparently reduces jitter to such a degree that coupling it with a good (expensive) transport becomes (almost) unnecessary._

 

Thanks for explaining this as I really wasn't sure what the DSP-1 is supposed to do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wow so the DAC19SE and Reference 3 are balanced 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Im really thinking hard if I should stretch my budget 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -----------------
 edit : DAC19SE and Reference 3 are not balanced 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 pls see later post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ------
 edit :
 A totally discrete Balanced amp probably with CAST for around $800 - 1300 from Audio-GD is a steal


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edit :
 A totally discrete Balanced amp probably with CAST for around $800 - 1300 from Audio-GD is a steal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thats a huge amount of money for HP amp, at least for me - at this price many biggies come into the picture, I think its too premature to say: 

 discrete + balanced + probably CAST = steal.. IMHO..

 but:

 Compass at USD258 + ship .. Yes ! .. again IMHO..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I asked Kingwa if the new "bright mode" would change the voicing of the Neutral mode and his reply was not in the slightest. So no worries about a voicing change for those that like the way the test unit sounds now in "Neutral" mode.

 One aspect of the upcoming "bright" mode that should give further options for customization is the combination this setting may have with the voicing of the Moon module. The additional bright edge combining with the wider sound stage of the Moon module may be a another great option beyond the current Earth/Neutral favorite.

 Versatility has been enhanced with the addition of the bright setting, no doubt. 

 Peete.


----------



## stellablues

Hmm.. I wonder if I should change my order to a moon in the compass instead of the Earth. I already have an earth in my zero, and a sun in my drawer unused.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, whatever happened to Mr. I'm-so-satisfied-with-my-Compass-I-want-to-stay-midfi?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Head-fi is bad for you._

 

Audio in general is corrosive to the bottom line even if you do this over the long term like I've had to. Still it's one of the most satisfying and aggravating hobbies there is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Satisfying when everything falls into place and aggravating when it doesn't...I think there would be great piles of money to be made from compiling a "Audio Synergy for Dummies" handbook of which I'd be customer no 1 the minute it was announced 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked Kingwa if the new "bright mode" would change the voicing of the Neutral mode and his reply was not in the slightest. So no worries about a voicing change for those that like the way the test unit sounds now in "Neutral" mode.

 One aspect of the upcoming "bright" mode that should give further options for customization is the combination this setting may have with the voicing of the Moon module. The additional bright edge combining with the wider sound stage of the Moon module may be a another great option beyond the current Earth/Neutral favorite.

 Versatility has been enhanced with the addition of the bright setting, no doubt. 

 Peete._

 


 Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Seems most of the original 18 thought the moon was smoother with a wider ss, but was lacking the details the earth had. The combination of the moon and the new bright setting may be the best option. This is just a guess though. I can't wait to find out. I have a moon with about 250-300 hours of burn in. I originally had it in a prelude sound card.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stellablues* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm.. I wonder if I should change my order to a moon in the compass instead of the Earth. I already have an earth in my zero, and a sun in my drawer unused._

 

Why not just add another module at the time of order ? 20US gets you another flavor because of the discount.

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Satisfying when everything falls into place and aggravating when it doesn't...I think there would be great piles of money to be made from compiling a "Audio Synergy for Dummies" handbook of which I'd be customer no 1 the minute it was announced 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Unfortunately, that book would probably necessitate another book as a companion volume, namely "The Dummy's guide to why you need to read Audio Synergy for Dummies". Synergy will always be learned the hard way, guidebook or not.

 The main thing is, I guess, to live by the following words: "Enjoy what you have". Embroider it, frame it, hang it on your wall. (Maybe next to "It's actually about the music".) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah, it's a great hobby, shame that it's quite costly.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats a huge amount of money for HP amp, at least for me - at this price many biggies come into the picture_

 

Well, you're a speaker guy first, so to you spending that much on a headamp may be a big step. But if your main listening is with headphones...

 To me, it does kinda look like a steal actually. For that quoted price I'm expecting a big box (well, two) full of Audio-gd goodness. As far as SS amps go, there's really not that much competition at that particular price point and with that kind of build and design quality. I can't wait to see what it will look like.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was also thinking of going this route instead of the compass. It's still midfi if you compare it to Reference 1 > C2C 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I disagree. The Reference 3/C2C combo is definitely not Mid-Fi

 The current 335 dollar tag on the C2C is promotional, I expect it to be around 600-700 USD as a final price, considering the CAST technology it totes. No Mid-Fi product I've seen uses dual mono, CAST, current technology.

 The Reference 3 also CAST current technology with two of what's considered the best D/A in the industry, with a Digital Processor, DSP, are you nuts? How is that Mid-Fi? Both the amp and DAC employs technology on par with $30,000 KRELL units! Course not as insane, but for the $700 he plans to sell that, it seems like knocking Kingwa over and stealing.

 May I ask do you know ANYONE else that provides KRELL CAST current transmission technology coupled with a DSP for a Mid-Fi headphone rig?

 I consider a $1,300 - $1,500 DAC/Amp combo as Audiophile/Hi-Fi, especially when Audio-gd sells for far less than the actual value of their products.


----------



## insyte

@mbd2884 - Well Im not going to argue about what is Mid-Fi, Im surprised you took that comment seriously 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All I know is, this is a good time for me to be looking for my 1st desktop amp/dac, as I can get something really good at a very affordable price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, it seems Kingwa is also reading this thread as I suddenly received this email

  Quote:


 Dear Insyte,
 The DAC19SE & Reference Three not balance output, they only have RCA SE output and current(CAST) output(this is not important, because it need feed to CAST gears).
 Kingwa 
 

Although Im a little confused with the last part of the sentence, but its now clear that the Reference 3 is not balanced.


----------



## mbd2884

I didn't mean to flame, but just pointing out to others who may not know what the Reference 3 and C2C is, that combo is some serious audio technology, definitely not a entry level Mid-Fi headphone audio setup, something one wouldn't buy unless they were really serious about headphones. Or they just got money to throw away, which is cool also


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Anyone use the usb input of the compass - how does it compare with the other input options? For now plan on pairing the compass with my laptop.


----------



## mbd2884

I use the USB input. I have an old external creative external soundcard with Coaxial output, sound is bleh. My Creative's Audigy 2 ZS also has optical, I much prefer USB.

 I've said why I prefer USB many times, in short, I don't understand how Coaxial/Optical output from a computer soundcard can be untouched by the soundcard and well, external DAC is all about removing the computer soundcard from the equation.

 It sounds awesome.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

USB is good. I had a really hard time telling the difference between it and optical. 

 Peete.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't mean to flame, but just pointing out to others who may not know what the Reference 3 and C2C is, that combo is some serious audio technology, definitely not a entry level Mid-Fi headphone audio setup, something one wouldn't buy unless they were really serious about headphones. Or they just got money to throw away, which is cool also 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the clarification. I wish I was part of the subset who has money to throw away 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








  Quote:


 Terminal functions:
 1: left / right channel RCA output
 2: left / right channel output XRL
 3: Left / right channel CAST output
 (RCA, XRL, CAST can only be connected at the same time one of a kind of output)
 4: BNC coaxial digital input
 5: RCA digital coaxial input 
 (BNC, RCA can be used simultaneously only one of an input)
 6: City electric power input
 7: tone selector switch, up for the clear, down for softer. (Only DAC8LE, 08 subsection DAC99/DAC11/DAC9 with this feature)
 Gain selector switch, up to +6 DB, down for 0DB. (Only DAC8HE with this feature) 
 

I got this image and (translated) text from one of the document files available in Audio GD's forum. 

 Can somebody get a good look at number 3, does the CAST output require a special cable? It also reads like Satri-Out.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yes CAST has it's own cables....like a DIN but that's just a guess. Email Kingwa for the answer to that.

 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

My soundcard can't output unmolested digital because it doesn't have the software to disable all its crazyDSP's

 Speaking of which, I just started using crossfeed again because of too much fatigue from too much listening. USing BS2B crossfeed at min and "easy" unchecked at the moment... compass is good with crossfeed, you must try it ^_^.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't mean to flame, but just pointing out to others who may not know what the Reference 3 and C2C is, that combo is some serious audio technology, definitely not a entry level Mid-Fi headphone audio setup, something one wouldn't buy unless they were really serious about headphones. Or they just got money to throw away, which is cool also 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey MDB!

 Would you consider the LD MK IV SE, the Compass and the HD650 Mid-Fi headphone audio setup?
 Or to put it this way, are the HD650 headphones for a Mid-Fi headphone audio setup?


----------



## mbd2884

Headphones at some point are just headphones. From the AD900 through the HD650, unless they are bass cannons like the D2000/D5000. With exception to the K1000 and maybe it seems the HD800, all headphones suffer from the flaws of single driver loudspeakers. So I think at that point, it becomes subjective opinion of what it's worth is. This includes the Grado PS-1000 or whatever it's called, careface.

 I'm not sure why you care how I percieve something to be Mid-Fi or Hi-Fi. Since you are curious, I look at the overall system. I do not think just cause you have a K1000, you have a Hi-Fi headphone system. The K1000 will only sound as good as its amp, the amp will only amplify sound that's as good as the source. So you have to look at it from an overall view point.

 So I don't think just because you have a HD650 mean you have a Hi-Fi/Audiophile setup. But HD650 is not out of place when you start to include $700+ audio equipment though. And if you can afford a $1000 dollar DAC, it's a shame to use a Grado SR-60 with it, hell for me any Grado, upgrade to the HD800!

 But yeah, the LD MK IV SE with a Compass with an HD650 in my opinion is a Mid-Fi entry level setup. If you were to use the LD MK VI, then that's a different story, but for that much money, I'd probably save a few extra for the DarkVoice 337SE, wouldn't you? I personally would use the Compass DAC with a DarkVoice 337SE. But say I were to get a Zana Deux from Eddie Current? Cause when I reach that money point, I agree with those who distrust some Chinese company called Woo Audio, so Eddie Current it is! I would upgrade the DAC utilizing the inspiring PCM1704UKs! Oddly enough, I think Audio-gd is the only Chinese small audio company I would trust that their products are worth the money they ask for.

 But I'm am enamored by the LittleDot. I think it's so cool you can get Tube amps for that low price. Jealous of your LD MK IV SE!


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes CAST has it's own cables....like a DIN but that's just a guess. Email Kingwa for the answer to that.

 Peete._

 

Yup emailed, but no reply yet, he's probably busy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was told via PM that CAST cables are expensive. So I also did some search and KRELL CAST cables are really really expensive, I saw a used 2 meter IC pair selling at audiogon for $250.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone use the usb input of the compass - how does it compare with the other input options? For now plan on pairing the compass with my laptop._

 

It compares very well. I can't find any difference between USB and the optical-out on my AV710... I prefer both to coaxial though, but that's not limited to just the Compass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl.


----------



## insyte

Kingwa replied : $15 for a 1M pair


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW why is the PCM1704UK a good dac chip? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

In the one DAC I heard it used in, instruments _truly_ sounded natural. Every other DAC, including my Northstar, sounds at least slightly digital to me. Unfortunately the chip isn't produced any longer. I don't know why. I imagine there must be considerable stocks of it that it's still used.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, the β22-killer from Audio-gd. Wow, and we don't even have to wait very long for that one.

 Does Kingwa ever take a rest? He must be designing in his sleep._

 

I doubt it will be a Beta 22 killer. The Beta 22 has been described as "straight wire with gain". All Audio-gd gear that I've used so far is slightly colored, more towards the direction of being musical though. If the C2C didn't have the bass boost though, it'd be pretty close to that description IMO though as it sounded detail-transparent to me.

 Kingwa kindly offered to upgrade my C2C to the new box. It's turned into a full-blown order though with the better RCA jacks and a new or different output circuit without the bass boost. I'm hoping it will be stellar with the HD-800s.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I disagree. The Reference 3/C2C combo is definitely not Mid-Fi

 The current 335 dollar tag on the C2C is promotional, I expect it to be around 600-700 USD as a final price, considering the CAST technology it totes. No Mid-Fi product I've seen uses dual mono, CAST, current technology._

 

That's interesting, I hadn't noticed that. $330 was the original price. 

  Quote:


 The Reference 3 also CAST current technology with two of what's considered the best D/A in the industry, with a Digital Processor, DSP, are you nuts? How is that Mid-Fi? Both the amp and DAC employs technology on par with $30,000 KRELL units! Course not as insane, but for the $700 he plans to sell that, it seems like knocking Kingwa over and stealing.

 May I ask do you know ANYONE else that provides KRELL CAST current transmission technology coupled with a DSP for a Mid-Fi headphone rig?

 I consider a $1,300 - $1,500 DAC/Amp combo as Audiophile/Hi-Fi, especially when Audio-gd sells for far less than the actual value of their products. 
 

There are many DAC chips, I don't think the PCM1704UK is considered "the best in the industry". Not to mention, there's much more to a DAC than just the DA chip, as we have learned from the Zero and Compass. I do agree that Kingwa's products are phenomenally good value. To make a sound judgement on that though (ha!) I'll have to wait until I can pit the Ref 3 and Ref 1 against other gear.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, you're a speaker guy first, so to you spending that much on a headamp may be a big step. But if your main listening is with headphones...

 To me, it does kinda look like a steal actually. For that quoted price I'm expecting a big box (well, two) full of Audio-gd goodness. As far as SS amps go, there's really not that much competition at that particular price point and with that kind of build and design quality. I can't wait to see what it will look like._

 

I agree with you Drosera, me being a speaker guy first that amount of money for an HP amp does sound much to me, and it would be a huge step forward if I do decide in the future to take that step. But what I meant is just saying its a steal because of the technology or the number of boxes it comes with is a little premature if it doesn't live up to its expectations, for that matter even Compass wouldn't have been a steal at USD258 + ship, with all its goodies and technology if it didn't sound good as it does - That is what I meant.
 Btw, even Kingwa believes this because in China itself, there are many manufacturers that make some gears with better parts than Kingwa does and it somehow doesn't click in the market, and to be very honest he is only on the design stage himself to know how much it will cost (thats why the figure between USD800-1300) and how it will finally sound, because if it doesn't come out to be the way he expected, he might as well scrap the whole idea..

 To put this shortly - kinda look like a steal like you say - I agree , but is a steal - to me sounds a little to premature.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked Kingwa if the new "bright mode" would change the voicing of the Neutral mode and his reply was not in the slightest. So no worries about a voicing change for those that like the way the test unit sounds now in "Neutral" mode.

 One aspect of the upcoming "bright" mode that should give further options for customization is the combination this setting may have with the voicing of the Moon module. The additional bright edge combining with the wider sound stage of the Moon module may be a another great option beyond the current Earth/Neutral favorite.

 Versatility has been enhanced with the addition of the bright setting, no doubt. 

 Peete._

 

I am not as worried about the voicing ( I figured he would get that right) but am more concerned the affect the additional components will have on the transparency and soundstaging. I know you are more aware than most people the affect that capacitors can have in a circuit path. I am a big fan of having the fewest caps possible in a circuit... less potential sq problems. I don't really care at all about resistors as they seem benign and non-reactive.
 I am hoping that one of the "18" will either get one of the new ones or at least have access to one, to see how they compare.


----------



## mbd2884

What? The DAC-19SE uses Dual PCM1704UK with CAST? 

 Boogers, by the time I save, I'll bet the C2C will push a DAC-19SE/C2C combo to about over $900. Frick, frick, frick!

 Compass needs a hug, I won't be abandoning you for a long time. /pat


----------



## D.C.

mbd you killed me with this one. LOL


----------



## D.C.

Curra can't wait for your impressions of the Reference 1. Just interested to see how it compares to the Nakamichi DAC, which you spoke so highly of.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Curra...drosera was talking about the forthcoming balanced head amp using the CAST inputs (from the Ref 1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) as being a possible Beta 22 Killer. Personally I think that's aiming a little low....go up the ladder another order of magnitude is my guess.

 Anyone know which version of Holst-The Planets is considered the best one (or one of)...I'm looking at at least 9 different versions right now....damn it the classical mine field o tittles needs a hand book to sort the crap from the good stuff (recording and performance wise) Right next to Synergy for Dummies....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on the bookstore shelf.

 I'll be one of the guys here waiting for that impression of the HD800's Curra....I'll have to live vicariously through your ears for a while since the 800's and I won't be seeing each other anytime soon....unless the street price drops to 1.1K or so in the next 12 months.

 Enough of my bitching about cost...I'm sure they are worth every penny.....Kingwa you know anything about making headphones ? Just kidding...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 mbd I just ripped the AIC second album from the CD to FLAC and went to tag the cover art from the net and saw the cover is just a blank page with AIC on it....what happened to the original (the 3 legged dog on the front cover ) Do you know the story behind that ? 

 What's the setting in media monkey to get gap less playback ...It's cutting off the last couple of seconds from each track and is annoying as hell. I have gap less enabled in the ASIO dll properties but....must be something else which I overlooked.

 Peete.


----------



## godluvsxs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What? The DAC-19SE uses Dual PCM1704UK with CAST? 

 Boogers, by the time I save, I'll bet the C2C will push a DAC-19SE/C2C combo to about over $900. Frick, frick, frick!

 Compass needs a hug, I won't be abandoning you for a long time. /pat_

 

Emmm .... seriously I would advice to top up getting the Reference 3, these are kingwa's comment on DSP 1:

 "数据得到同步，尤如没有Jitter的状态，理论上，无论连接不同档次的CD转盘，也能达到最好而没差异 的音质。实际我们虽然感受到不同档次的CD转盘也存在音质差别（音响就是这样不能单纯理论化），但结果使用 低档的CD转盘或DVD机，音质比使用固件数字滤波器的提升更大。"

 "Theoretically when using the DSP1, date will be running parallel, achieving near zero jitter state, no matter what level of CD transport attached, be it hypermarket grade or hi-end level, you could still getting the best and same sound quality! Practically, through some experiment, although we could sense the sound quality difference between different price level CD transport (that's audiophile, you just cant do pure theory, you must excise the practical side too), but final result shows that using entry level CD transport or hypermarket grade DVD player, the improvement of sound quality is HUGE compare to typical digital receiver chip"

 I guess the extra money spent on DSP1 would be VERY bang for the bucks!


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mbd I just ripped the AIC second album from the CD to FLAC and went to tag the cover art from the net and saw the cover is just a blank page with AIC on it....what happened to the original (the 3 legged dog on the front cover ) Do you know the story behind that ? 

 What's the setting in media monkey to get gap less playback ...It's cutting off the last couple of seconds from each track and is annoying as hell. I have gap less enabled in the ASIO dll properties but....must be something else which I overlooked.

 Peete._

 

Not sure about the CD Cover. I borrowed my friend, my concert buddy's CD to rip. His still has the 3 legged dog on it, but then he bought it the year it was released, he just loves AIC!

 Umm, for Media Monkey, if you go to options to configure output with Otachi's ASIO plugin, should be an option for gapless playback.

 I've actually reverted back to Foobar2000, but I use Media Monkey still, it's easier to edit the tags for the files with Media Monkey, lol. I still use Monkey at work as its easier to change ASIO source on the fly, with Foobar, too lazy to go through options and remap the channels. Also they really do somehow sound slightly different, so it's just fun to switch between the two. MAD decoder got something going, maybe dithering, who knows.

 Sidenote = Charlie Brown cartoon has by far the best soundtrack IMO ever. Charlie Brown and his All Stars, good song.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Curra...drosera was talking about the forthcoming balanced head amp using the CAST inputs (from the Ref 1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) as being a possible Beta 22 Killer. Personally I think that's aiming a little low....go up the ladder another order of magnitude is my guess._

 

Still not quite sure what exactly will be balanced on this amp, input or output or both. Oh well, let's wait and see, the thing only exists in Kingwa's head at the moment.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know which version of Holst-The Planets is considered the best one (or one of)...I'm looking at at least 9 different versions right now....damn it the classical mine field o tittles needs a hand book to sort the crap from the good stuff (recording and performance wise) Right next to Synergy for Dummies....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on the bookstore shelf._

 

Fortunately, it's very hard to do The Planets very wrong, so there are plenty of good performances to choose from.
 My personal favourites performance-wise are

 -Philadelphia Orchestra/Eugene Ormandy (RCA, 1975)
 -Berliner Philharmoniker/Herbert von Karajan (Deutsche Grammophon, 1981)

 Unfortunately neither of them really cuts it in the recording department. The Ormandy is horribly bright (apparently American engineers thought that was what the public wanted at that time, because it's a very common thing for American recordings from that period). The Karajan suffers from being 1981 digital, although it's certainly not as bad as some other recordings I've heard from this period. Hard to beat these two performance-wise, IMO. (Alternatively, if an older recording is not a problem you could get Karajan's earlier 1961 Vienna Philharmonic version on Decca. The recording should be pretty good.)

 A good compromise of performance and recordings might be Gardiners recent version:
 -Philharmonia Orchestra/John Eliot Gardiner (Deutsche Grammophon)
 The performance should be good, the recording might be a little multimiked, but high in detail. (Haven't heard this one myself. Is still on the to-buy list.)

 If recording really comes first, you might try this one. Especially if you have a SACD player.


 Actually there are plenty of guides to classical recordings, such as the Penguin Guide to Compact Discs and the Gramophone Good CD Guide. Although the reviewers are usually better at judging performances, than they are at judging recording quality. Alternatively, you could check sites like Classics Today or the review archive at the Gramophone website.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Curra...drosera was talking about the forthcoming balanced head amp using the CAST inputs (from the Ref 1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) as being a possible Beta 22 Killer. Personally I think that's aiming a little low....go up the ladder another order of magnitude is my guess._

 

I don't, as the Beta 22 is considered the best solid state headphone amp available when made with a separate Sigma 11 PSU and the best parts available. Maybe the old Headroom Max series might be on par. The design has been around years as well. If his balanced amp could best a Beta 22, it would be epic in the most serious way. However, it'd have to best it in ability to drive headphones while remaining completely transparent. Not everyone wants that though, as proven by the Luxman P-1, which is different in being more musical than absolutely transparent.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Curra can't wait for your impressions of the Reference 1. Just interested to see how it compares to the Nakamichi DAC, which you spoke so highly of._

 

Unfortunately the Nakamichi has gone off to its new owner. It'll go up against the Northstar and Benchmark.


----------



## sandchak

I think this is the upgraded Compass HP amp Board...











 and the new Power Supply board ..


----------



## Drosera

Very interesting two compare the two boards side by side, quite a few things have changed. I wonder what the new "connectors" in the upper right hand corner are for? Just for the gain changes?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very interesting two compare the two boards side by side, quite a few things have changed. I wonder what the new "connectors" in the upper right hand corner are for? Just for the gain changes?_

 

The 5 pin connector is for connecting the gain switch and preamp line out switch..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't, as the Beta 22 is considered the best solid state headphone amp available when made with a separate Sigma 11 PSU and the best parts available. Maybe the old Headroom Max series might be on par. The design has been around years as well. If his balanced amp could best a Beta 22, it would be epic in the most serious way. However, it'd have to best it in ability to drive headphones while remaining completely transparent. Not everyone wants that though, as proven by the Luxman P-1, which is different in being more musical than absolutely transparent.



 Unfortunately the Nakamichi has gone off to its new owner. It'll go up against the Northstar and Benchmark._

 

Hi Curra. We'll have to wait and see. I'll refrain for further hyperbole as I should know by now not to do that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Once your Ref 1 DAC arrives Curra I'm fairly certain you wont be missing the Dragon all that much or at least I hope that's what happens. Anyway March is almost upon us...not long now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks for the info Drosera. It's much appreciated !!!!

 Cheers..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Anyone wonder how the Reference Three and the DAC-3SE might compare? Both are priced at ~$700.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone wonder how the Reference Three and the DAC-3SE might compare? Both are priced at ~$700._

 

Oh d*mn, the person who has compared all the Audio-gd DACs has just gone on vacation! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously though, hard to say. But the DAC-3SE is said to be tube-like (on the website), while the Reference Three (with PCM1704UK chips) is probably somewhat less forgiving and more resolving/analytical. Don't forget the added benefit of the DSP-1 that's included in the Ref Three either, that will probably make a huge improvement in incoming signal quality. Moreover, *if I understand this correctly*, the DSP-1 settings can also quite easily be altered allowing you to change between different oversampling modes (including NOS).


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone wonder how the Reference Three and the DAC-3SE might compare? Both are priced at ~$700._

 

I suggest lurking the audio gd forums with google translate on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lots of impressions there. There's even a thread there where all the reviews that were written in this thread are compiled 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and they have several different translations of currawong's blog entry


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh d*mn, the person who has compared all the Audio-gd DACs has just gone on vacation! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously though, hard to say. But the DAC-3SE is said to be tube-like (on the website), while the Reference Three (with PCM1704UK chips) is probably somewhat less forgiving and more resolving/analytical. Don't forget the added benefit of the DSP-1 that's included in the Ref Three either, that will probably make a huge improvement in incoming signal quality. Moreover, *if I understand this correctly*, the DSP-1 settings can also quite easily be altered allowing you to change between different oversampling modes (including NOS)._

 

Correct...I have the various settings somewhere on my computer Hard drive. I'll post them when I find the info.

 Look up Cyclone II DSP and have a look at the data sheet in the meantime...it's one impressive piece of silicon. AFAIK Kingwa is the first one to use this chip in a DAC.

 Peete.


----------



## cyberidd

So I've been travelling for the last couple of weeks and wasn't able to get on a computer, so now I get back and there are 100 or so more pages in this thread than when I left. Can anyone tell me if part 3 of Pricklely Peete's review is out yet, and if so what page its on? 

 Thanks.


----------



## ScottieB

It isn't out yet. And you probably shouldn't waste your time reading the last 100 pages. Mostly debate over new front and rear panels.


----------



## csroc

I'm sure Peete's working on it and once it is up there will probably be a link in the first post of the thread.

 You won't get much out of the last 100 pages though unless you want to see how the new front and rear panels came about. I suggest if you just want to read impressions that you follow the links from the first post.


----------



## ScottieB

hahaaa echo echo echo...


----------



## csroc

Haha woops. That's what you get for starting a new reply and then getting side-tracked before submitting it.


----------



## cyberidd

Ok, thanks!


----------



## HammerSandwich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unfortunately the [PCM1704U-K] isn't produced any longer. I don't know why. I imagine there must be considerable stocks of it that it's still used._

 

Where did you learn this? TI's website suggests that it's in the production queue.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've been travelling for the last couple of weeks and wasn't able to get on a computer, so now I get back and there are 100 or so more pages in this thread than when I left. Can anyone tell me if part 3 of Pricklely Peete's review is out yet, and if so what page its on? 

 Thanks._

 

Look on the first page, first post to see if there are any new reviews and impressions you have missed. Currawong has diligently been updating it.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

You are correct gentlemen. I've decided to add 2 more parts to the review. One about the cables from Audio-gd and how they fare against what I have on hand and the last part a short write up (new features and the soft modes) on the final production version Compass. In the meantime I'm still slogging away on Part III....I know it's taking a long time but I can't really cut too much out without it having noticeable holes in it when written up. 

 Anyway....that's the news from my part o the world 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## cynan

What happened to the Reference 3? There is only a reference 1 and 2 (which is new?) on the Audio-dg site...


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cynan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What happened to the Reference 3? There is only a reference 1 and 2 (which is new?) on the Audio-dg site..._

 

Hm, things seem to be in a flux over there. And there are some inconsistencies. The Reference Two page now says that the Ref Two is based on the DAC-8, while I thought it's actually based on the DAC-7. Work in progress.

 I wouldn't be completely surprised if development of the Reference Three might take a little longer. The Reference One and Two have already been "beta-tested" by sales to Chinese customers. They are finished products. The Reference Three has not been for sale at all and perhaps the finishing touches are taking a little longer than planned.

 Then again, maybe it will pop up again any moment now on the site.

 Nice to be able to read this stuff now, without the help of Google Translate though.


----------



## mbd2884

Seems to me the Reference 3 is a bit different from the other two. Reference 1 and 2 designed for serious full sized speaker setups.

 Kingwa realized there may be a market in hi-fi headphones for him, and to take advantage of the C2C, designed the Reference 3 (previously said it will be same size as Compass, C2C using Compass dimensions also). Man those two stacked, mm yummy,


----------



## ScottieB

I find it hilarious that the few people with the Compass in hand are already talking about upgrades... what was that about my wallet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm in "the 30" - can't wait to hear this thing (and then start on my DIY stuff!!!!)!


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find it hilarious that the few people with the Compass in hand are already talking about upgrades... what was that about my wallet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm in "the 30" - can't wait to hear this thing (and then start on my DIY stuff!!!!)!_

 

Oh gratz. If you admit I influenced your decision to buy the Compass, you will have made my day. lawl


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find it hilarious that the few people with the Compass in hand are already talking about upgrades... what was that about my wallet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Exactly, watch head-fi upgraditis in full swing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think it's time to put the motto "Dream of upgrades, but enjoy what you have." in my sig. If nothing else, then at least as a reminder to myself.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly, watch head-fi upgraditis in full swing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think it's time to put the motto "Dream of upgrades, but enjoy what you have." in my sig. If nothing else, than at least as a reminder to myself._

 

Give the Compass a hug, and bond with it. Emotional ties to the Compass may help stave off the upgraditis.


----------



## cynan

As long as the Ref 3 is not gone for good...

 It will be interesting to see comparisons between the SE19 and the Ref 3 - to see of the Ref 3 is worth the $250 or so increase in price (for most users anyway). As for a matching head amp, the C2C is an obvious choice - but then there is this rumour that Kingwa is off developing an even higher end head amp?

 Can't the guy take a break for a while so that we have time to properly digest the products he currently has? Sheesh. ;P


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cynan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't the guy take a break for a while so that we have time to properly digest the products he currently has? Sheesh. ;P_

 

Yeah, indeed, kinda makes you want to beg Kingwa to take a sabbatical for a year or something, just to give you time to save up.


----------



## tinseljim

Hey folks I'm very close to buying now. Do I just go to his website and email him or what do you suggest?


----------



## csroc

I think just emailing him is always your best bet, he's quick to respond and very helpful. Right now it sounds like there won't be any more Compasses shipping until later in March.


----------



## gevorg

How good is Compass as an amp only (i.e. feeded by a DAC by "Line In")? What standalone amps does it compares to?

 There is another new USB DAC (Valab) that is getting craze lately (even got attention from ultra high end manufacturer Empirical Audio), and I'm wondering if it will be a fair comparison if I'll just connect the Valab to Compass and see which DAC section I prefer. Since Compass is oversampling and Valab is NOS, they will likely to sound different instead of one being "better" than another. So far, my preferences go for the one that has the most musical/natural/open sound with no sign of digitis.


----------



## ScottieB

haha I'm not really one to make emotional ties to electronic equipment. I prefer the things I hug to hug back. Music on the other hand often elicits emotional response in this brain.

 It was really Señor Tax Refund that influenced my decision. That and wanting to guarantee I had something while I worked on some DIY/FrankenZero (since I'm not completely confident I won't end up bricking the thing!). I have total faith that Audio-GD makes great stuff and stands behind it (all based on my HDAM experiences last summer).


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_haha I'm not really one to make emotional ties to electronic equipment. I prefer the things I hug to hug back. Music on the other hand often elicits emotional response in this brain.

 It was really Señor Tax Refund that influenced my decision. That and wanting to guarantee I had something while I worked on some DIY/FrankenZero (since I'm not completely confident I won't end up bricking the thing!). I have total faith that Audio-GD makes great stuff and stands behind it (all based on my HDAM experiences last summer)._

 

Damn you, my day has been ruined. Frick, no fair.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How good is Compass as an amp only (i.e. feeded by a DAC by "Line In")? What standalone amps does it compares to?

 There is another new USB DAC (Valab) that is getting craze lately (even got attention from ultra high end manufacturer Empirical Audio), and I'm wondering if it will be a fair comparison if I'll just connect the Valab to Compass and see which DAC section I prefer. Since Compass is oversampling and Valab is NOS, they will likely to sound different instead of one being "better" than another. So far, my preferences go for the one that has the most musical/natural/open sound with no sign of digitis._

 

Where does it say the Compass is oversampling? 

 Amp on Compass has been compared by others here, read their impressions. Overall its analytical, neutral sounding.

 If you are going to buy the Compass for the Amp and need a DAC, why would you buy Valab? Makes no sense, and more costly.

 If you already have a VALAB, why wouldn't you just buy a KICAS, Solo, or whatever other amp available?


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where does it say the Compass is oversampling?_

 

Compass uses the AD1852 chip, which is an oversampling dac (multibit sigma-delta).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Amp on Compass has been compared by others here, read their impressions. Overall its analytical, neutral sounding._

 

The only comparison of the amp section I found was against Corda Opera (thank you Drosera!). Who else compared the amp section against other amps?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are going to buy the Compass for the Amp and need a DAC, why would you buy Valab? Makes no sense, and more costly.

 If you already have a VALAB, why wouldn't you just buy a KICAS, Solo, or whatever other amp available?_

 

Well of course I'm not planning to use the Compass and Valab at the same time. I don't have the Valab or the Compass yet, so still researching the possibilities. I will probably get the Compass first, burn it in and get familiar to it, and then later get the Valab and compare the DAC sections. If I end up liking the Valab more, then I'll sell the Compass and get an amp for Valab. If I'll like the Compass more (hope so since this is a cheaper option), then I'll just sell the Valab. This is why I wanted to know how good is Compasses amp only section, so there would be a fair comparison to the Valab.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where does it say the Compass is oversampling?_

 


 It may not state on the unit or website that it's oversampling, but the AD1852 is used in oversampling dacs. I think I remember reading that is capable of outputing 24bit/96k. If I'm not mistaken nos dacs are limited to 16bit/44.1k
 I understand his question. They will have different sound signatures, but I personally wouldn't go that route. But to each his own.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Compass uses the AD1852 chip, which is an oversampling dac (multibit sigma-delta)._

 


 Well I guess you beat me to it. You must have posted while I was typing.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It may not state on the unit or website that it's oversampling, but the AD1852 is used in oversampling dacs. I think I remember reading that is capable of outputing 24bit/96k. If I'm not mistaken nos dacs are limited to 16bit/44.1k
 I understand his question. They will have different sound signatures, but I personally wouldn't go that route. But to each his own._

 

I hope this DAC is NOS and I also hope it can take 24/96 data via coaxial or optical because I have true PCM 24/96 files stored on my hard drives and I hate it when my stuff gets messed with or altered..


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope this DAC is NOS and I also hope it can take 24/96 data via coaxial or optical because I have true PCM 24/96 files stored on my hard drives and I hate it when my stuff gets messed with or altered.._

 

This dac isn't nos, but it will accept 2 channel pcm24/96 from what I've read. You wouldn't want nos anyway because it's limited to 16/44.1


----------



## csroc

NOS are limited to 16bit/48KHz for USB I think without special drivers but the optical and coaxial support up to 24/96 input on the Compass I thought.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_NOS are limited to 16bit/48KHz for USB I think without special drivers but the optical and coaxial support up to 24/96 input on the Compass I thought._

 

The compass does support up to 24/96, but it's not nos. It's and upsampling dac. Nos dacs does not support 24/96. I am referring to nos only. Some higher end dacs has the option to be nos or upsampling. This is not the case with the compass. It's upsampling only. I still can't wait to get one though.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are correct gentlemen. I've decided to add 2 more parts to the review. One about the cables from Audio-gd and how they fare against what I have on hand and the last part a short write up (new features and the soft modes) on the final production version Compass. In the meantime I'm still slogging away on Part III....I know it's taking a long time but I can't really cut too much out without it having noticeable holes in it when written up. 

 Anyway....that's the news from my part o the world 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete._

 

I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't have done the same, that is, compare his RCA cables with what I have as well.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cynan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What happened to the Reference 3? There is only a reference 1 and 2 (which is new?) on the Audio-dg site..._

 

It's still in development. It doesn't even have a box yet. I think he's re-writing a lot of his pages.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How good is Compass as an amp only (i.e. feeded by a DAC by "Line In")? What standalone amps does it compares to?_

 

I've posted links to all the reviews, even partial ones, in the first post. One of them should include my comments on the HP amp section. If it doesn't, I'll find it and link it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Compass uses the AD1852 chip, which is an oversampling dac (multibit sigma-delta)._

 

My understanding is that Sigma Delta is 1-bit, not multi-bit.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I might do some comparison of Moon and Earth setups later on, but I doubt I will be using the DT880. I might leave that to people who actually like that 'phone. I don't think I can do a fair evaluation of it. The thing I can say about it right now is that the differences in soundstage are far less noticeable with the DT880 than with the K500, simply because the DT880 has a far smaller soundstage to begin with. (And anyways, it's of very little relevance to the music you mentioned in general.)

 Jeez, R&B, dance, electronica... First it's Vanessa Mae, now this. It's bad for my soul! Joking aside (am I joking?), I don't think it's very relevant actually. First of all, I don't listen to that stuff anyways, so I wouldn't know what to listen for. (This is the politically correct version.) But actually I don't see the point anyways, if it works with the amplified music I listened to, it will work for other kinds as well. Frankly, there isn't that much difference between them._

 

Ok, sure keep us posted if you plan to compare the Moon vs. Earth setup. No love for the DT880? Well, I've never listened to the K500 though I've read they are more attuned to classical-soundstage music than the bass-speed-detail requirements of R&B, dance, electronica. That's the challenge with finding the right marriage with music preferences, phones, and amps / dacs.


  Quote:


 Yes, others have noticed the hum as well, but it's hardly noticeable and not very relevant because of this. Many power supplies hum a little, it's no biggie. Maybe it's inherent, maybe it's a grid problem (I don't think so, in my case). It doesn't really matter. Don't worry about it. 
 

If it's a non-issue, that's fine. Some people are more sensitive to ambient noise and hum than others and it could be magnified depending on gain setting, use of open vs. closed cans, music genre, etc. However, if some units are shipping with noticeable hum and others are dead quiet, then it may be a component supplier / quality control issue that's worth bringing to Kingwa's attention.


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've posted links to all the reviews, even partial ones, in the first post. One of them should include my comments on the HP amp section. If it doesn't, I'll find it and link it._

 

Thanks Currawong, I've read your comments on the amp section, but I couldn't find anything on how it compares to standalone amps (other than Corda Opera).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My understanding is that Sigma Delta is 1-bit, not multi-bit._

 

It says multibit sigma-delta here:

http://www.analog.com/static/importe...ets/AD1852.pdf


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it's a non-issue, that's fine. Some people are more sensitive to ambient noise and hum than others and it could be magnified depending on gain setting, use of open vs. closed cans, music genre, etc. However, if some units are shipping with noticeable hum and others are dead quiet, then it may be a component supplier / quality control issue that's worth bringing to Kingwa's attention._

 

None of our compasses have blown up from the humming transformer so that's good enough QA for me. I think lining along the inside of the faceplate where it joins with the other three panels will get rid of the hum. Anyone got suggestion for material?


----------



## B00MERS00NER

I just got a email from cherry at audio-gd to confirm my order for the upgraded compass and shipping early march (first week I hope) - getting close now, the anticipation is killing me! 

 I'm glad to hear that usb is so much more than what my previous experience with the turtlebeach SRM for the AK-R8s (used them for multiplayer shooters), snap crackle pop! I realize that usb transport wasn't the culprit(SRM and its drivers/Vista), but still had some concern.

 I see that in your sigs that some of you use media monkey, and foobar. Obviously I am going to do some more research on the two but I was curious if I have the right take so far - media monkey is better out of the box and foobar is more customizable?


----------



## Toe Tag

What's the next step? I'm getting out of the RealTek 889 audio chipset on my motherboard and for about $300 getting into the outboard Compass DAC+amp. And I'm even getting out of my $69 Grado SR60 and for about $300 getting into the Sennheiser HD650. Seems like a lot of bang for the buck and hours of listening pleasure there. 

 But what next? Its easy to convert these HD650 to balanced. But it seems like a big step after that, and there's no point putting the XLR's on the cans without moving up to balanced amp. And balanced DAC too, or could I keep the Compass in the mix and feed its single ended line outs into a balanced amp? But basically this next step is $1000+ and there is no screaming bang-for-the-buck "Compass of the balanced amps" out there?


----------



## dBs

Wasnt there rumor of some kind of Audio GD new balanced component?


----------



## shampoosuicide

If I don't have an amp that utilises CAST technology, then I don't really have any reason to care for a DAC that has CAST (assuming I don't plan on upgrading my amp)?

 Would I be right to think that?


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I don't have an amp that utilises CAST technology, then I don't really have any reason to care for a DAC that has CAST (assuming I don't plan on upgrading my amp)?

 Would I be right to think that?_

 

that's what I'm wondering.

 Thinking very much along those lines, I asked Kingwa about the DAC3SE. Since there seems to be a lot of interest in his DACs, I'll report here what he told me: in March he plans on releasing an upgraded version of the DAC3SE with the DSP-1 chip, priced around $890.


----------



## WC Annihilus

Mmm, don't suppose Kingwa would be willing to put these on eBay at special request (with an increased price to cover the fees of course) as it looks like the 25% Microsoft Live cashback may be back in effect


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, sure keep us posted if you plan to compare the Moon vs. Earth setup. No love for the DT880? Well, I've never listened to the K500 though I've read they are more attuned to classical-soundstage music than the bass-speed-detail requirements of R&B, dance, electronica. That's the challenge with finding the right marriage with music preferences, phones, and amps / dacs._

 

Yeah, I have huge problems with the DT880's, but that definitely has a lot to do with my listening preferences. Actually, when it comes to dance and electronica, I would heartily recommend them. From what little I've listened to with them in these genres, I would say the DT880s are one of the very best 'phones for these genres. They're artificial 'phones for artificial music. And although that statement might sound cynical or sarcastic, that's certainly not how I mean it.

 I should also say that my impressions on the DT880 are only based on how they sound with SS amplification. Many people have claimed that tube amplification completely transforms them, making them much more natural and warm.

 The K500 I should recommend for unamplified music first. They can work surprisingly well with other genres as well, but it is with unamplified recordings that they excel.

 In the end, and despite my findings in my comparison with the Corda Opera, I don't think finding the right amp for a certain genre is a sensible thing to do. Actually, most audio engineers will just laugh at you when you start to talk about 'the sound of an amp'. They will say such a thing simply does not exist, an amp doesn't have a sound. The sound is determined by the input on the one hand and it's interaction with speakers/headphones on the other.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it's a non-issue, that's fine. Some people are more sensitive to ambient noise and hum than others and it could be magnified depending on gain setting, use of open vs. closed cans, music genre, etc. However, if some units are shipping with noticeable hum and others are dead quiet, then it may be a component supplier / quality control issue that's worth bringing to Kingwa's attention._

 

I doubt it's a defect and I also doubt it's a thing that can be solved by quality control. There are so many factors that can cause a transformer to develop a slight hum, that it's probably impossible to test them for all possible conditions.

 And yes, personal experience varies wildly. A similar thing occurred with the Opera. The digital input for the DAC of the Opera has a mechanical relay that clicks whenever the digital data stream starts or stops. It's barely audible and on the few occassion I've heard it, it hasn't bothered me in the slightest. But apparently it drove some other people completely nuts.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WC Annihilus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mmm, don't suppose Kingwa would be willing to put these on eBay at special request (with an increased price to cover the fees of course) as it looks like the 25% Microsoft Live cashback may be back in effect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have asked him once something like that, his answer was that he likes to keep his transactions simple, one because thats the way he prefers and secondly due to language barriers which needs him to look too much into the language and understand things.. but that was a while ago, so you might as well ask him directly..


----------



## mbd2884

Moodryn you gotta stop with this upsampling bullcrap. You feed the DAC 44.1 16 bit, bit perfect output, the Compass won't upsample it to 48 or 96. You gotta stop, stop it now, if you are too incompetent to setup Winamp, Foobar, Media Monkey correctly, not our problem, nor is it Audio-gd's. Don't like the DAC, buy the Valab, no one cares. I trust the ears of Peete, Curra over some marketing bullcrud by Valab.

 And for gevorg, stop being lazy. Peete and Currawong themselves have done extensive testing of just the amp.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_None of our compasses have blown up from the humming transformer so that's good enough QA for me. I think lining along the inside of the faceplate where it joins with the other three panels will get rid of the hum. Anyone got suggestion for material?_

 

Any number of rubber materials (adhesive backed and thin) should work. Dynamat springs to mind but it's bloody expensive. 

 Peete.


----------



## dBs

MBD man chill. You know the whole "internet: serious business" thing and all that.

 In more positive news, I got an email regarding the Compass confirming my order. Im guessing that they are setting up the units and prepping the orders. Depending on how far along the process they are, maybe theyll be shipped out the 1st? =D


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Moodryn you gotta stop with this upsampling bullcrap. You feed the DAC 44.1 16 bit, bit perfect output, the Compass won't upsample it to 48 or 96. You gotta stop, stop it now, if you are too incompetent to setup Winamp, Foobar, Media Monkey correctly, not our problem, nor is it Audio-gd's._

 

LOL, it is you who is incompetent and have no idea of how AD1852 works.

 If you cannot comprehend the official specs of AD1852, here it is straight from Audio-gd:

 "DAC-100 use AD1852, it is 24Bit / 192KHz sample frequency range.But we have more listen and compare, found AD1852 work on 24Bit/96KHz is best ( though input data is 16Bit/44.1K)."

 Compass oversamples everything to 24/96! And there is nothing wrong with this, its just a matter of taste.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't like the DAC, buy the Valab, no one cares. I trust the ears of Peete, Curra over some marketing bullcrud by Valab.

 And for gevorg, stop being lazy. Peete and Currawong themselves have done extensive testing of just the amp._

 

No one is offering you a Valab and no one cares whose ears you trust, so f'off.


----------



## Currawong

Where does it say in the PDF that it up-samples?


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, it is you who is incompetent and have no idea of how AD1852 works.

 If you cannot comprehend the official specs of AD1852, here it is straight from Audio-gd:

 "DAC-100 use AD1852, it is 24Bit / 192KHz sample frequency range.But we have more listen and compare, found AD1852 work on 24Bit/96KHz is best ( though input data is 16Bit/44.1K)."

 Compass oversamples everything to 24/96! And there is nothing wrong with this, its just a matter of taste.



 No one is offering you a Valab and no one cares whose ears you trust, so f'off._

 

Prove it. My bet you are wrong. All he said is that he prefers to hear the Compass with 24/96 through either coaxial or optical. 

 Nowhere does it say it upsamples, dumbass. Considering Kingwa's obvious expertise in audio, hard to believe he would do what you just posted. Stop posting and spreading rumors. 

 Hey Gevorg, if you are going to nitpick, guess what? Opera isn't a standalone Amp, its a DAC/Amp combo, after reading Drosera's awesome review, couldn't figure that out? Did you even read it? ***, Drosera even compared the Opera DAC to the Compass DAC.

 And guess what, I'm not the only one who trusts Peete's and Curra's and other people's impressions, those who actually OWN and have HEARD the Compass.

 This is a thread to discuss Compass, not to promote Valab, ***** off.


----------



## Drosera

Wow, it's good to see that we finally managed to get rid of that horrible civilized tone this thread had in the last week or so.


----------



## mbd2884

Sorry lost my cool, but them two spreading rumors pissed me off. And even after Curra posted links for him to find reviews of Amp still complaining about the Amp impressions.


----------



## sandchak

Yeah whats this thing about up sampling, if someone could help.. I have a suggestion, maybe we ask the admin if they can make it such a way that we have to press send button 3 time to actually send our message - No offense to you mbd and you know that - but sometimes we are all becoming a little hyped up (including me)..

 Oh yes !! Curaa Congratulations on becoming Headphoneus Supremus !!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where does it say in the PDF that it up-samples?_

 

On the first page is a block diagram of the AD1852 where you can see that 8x interpolation occurs. I guess that's oversampling and not upsampling. Maybe the two terms are being confused here. (And maybe I don't have a clue what I'm talking about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 EDIT: Congratulations Curra!!

 EDIT2: No wait, interpolation is actually related to upsampling. (Note to self: check Wikipedia before posting.)


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Prove it. My bet you are wrong. All he said is that he prefers to hear the Compass with 24/96 through either coaxial or optical.

 Nowhere does it say it upsamples, dumbass. Considering Kingwa's obvious expertise in audio, hard to believe he would do what you just posted. Stop posting and spreading rumors._

 

LOL, I care less whether you "believe it" or not, the specs for AD1852 have been already posted. Read it, instead of threadcrapping with your sandbox insults.


----------



## mbd2884

I can't believe you came here to derail this thread to spread rumors. Incredible. Nowhere in the PDF does it say that it oversamples everything. Stop spreading your rumors.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, I care less whether you "believe it" or not, the specs for AD1852 have been already posted. Read it, instead of threadcrapping with your sandbox insults._

 

Hm, the point is, no one is forcing anyone to get in the sandbox in the first place.


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm, the point is, no one is forcing anyone to get in the sandbox in the first place._

 

I agree, but unfortunately I got trapped into it:

 "Never to wrestle with a pig, you get dirty; and besides, the pig likes it."


----------



## mbd2884

/sign another name to add to the ignore list.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah whats this thing about up sampling, if someone could help.. I have a suggestion, maybe we ask the admin if they can make it such a way that we have to press send button 3 time to actually send our message - No offense to you mbd and you know that - but sometimes we are all becoming a little hyped up (including me)..

 Oh yes !! Curaa Congratulations on becoming Headphoneus Supremus !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Lol, it's only a sign I spend way too much time online. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't get hyped up much any more online, I've been doing this too long.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol, it's only a sign I spend way too much time online. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't get hyped up much any more online, I've been doing this too long._

 

Congrats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 --------

 Oh btw, Kingwa told me one can order a C2C with CAST input, although either one the RCA or the XLR will have to go


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 --------

 Oh btw, Kingwa told me one can order a C2C with CAST input, although either one the RCA or the XLR will have to go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

With that choice I'd have to go with XLR personally, if I was to buy it. Reasoning that the C2C from what I saw initially, no balanced output. Sweet it can accepted balanced XLR input, but without output, well, it's not who cares, but if RCA or XLR has to go, XLR.

 Also Kingwa confirmed what I had been saying. It cannot upsample, and the sample process depends on the input. So if someone is too incompetent to setup Foobar, Winamp, Media Monkey or whatever media player, that's their problem. And if you spend 2 minutes reading what oversampling is, then would know, what's been spreading around here lately are just rumors.

 Drosera, I also mixed up the two words, hehe, not alone.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With that choice I'd have to go with XLR personally, if I was to buy it. Reasoning that the C2C from what I saw initially, no balanced output. Sweet it can accepted balanced XLR input, but without output, well, it's not who cares, but if RCA or XLR has to go, XLR._

 

Agree, the RCA input is more important since the amp is single ended anyway


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Drosera, I also mixed up the two words, hehe, not alone._

 

Meh, I'm going to spend some time with John Watkinson's Introduction to Digital Audio. I'm getting tired of not quite knowing what I'm talking about.


----------



## insyte

I was browsing through the new webpages of REF 1 & 2 and noticed this for both.........

  Quote:


 This product comes without power cable. 
 

So I guess if I want this I have to factor in an additional 60USD for the cables ..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was browsing through the new webpages of REF 1 & 2 and noticed this for both.........



 So I guess if I want this I have to factor in an additional 60USD for the cables ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, maybe if you ask really really nicely....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually it's probably 75$, 60$ is the combo-offer when you're buying a Compass.


----------



## sandchak

Ok, I was keen on the XLR - RCA input and SE output issue, so I wrote to him, here is what he replied, I'll just paste it here because I cant yet fully understand and I am writing back for further clarifications, in the meantime if someone understands - glad if you can tell me what it means :

  Quote:


 In technology, all difference input stage amp(not only our products, but 99% audio products in world also use difference input stage, and all voltage feedback OPA chip use difference input stage, like AD827,OPA2134,ect), XLR input can made the better performance than RCA input. In fact, XLR input although SE output, sound more clear and focused ,and soundstage is larger than RCA input.
 Because difference input stage has dual input pots, while in RCA input, either input pots will connect to GND.
 If input is XLR signal, the difference input stage will allow both input pots to work, and at the output pots it can kill the distortion and noise of two input signal(XLR hot and cool sign).

 See the pix.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, maybe if you ask really really nicely....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually it's probably 75$, 60$ is the combo-offer when you're buying a Compass._

 

I hope it will also be offered as a combo once those two dacs are available, I wonder how much Ref 2 will sell for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And shipping will be more expensive - they each weigh 15kg


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 --------

 Oh btw, Kingwa told me one can order a C2C with CAST input, although either one the RCA or the XLR will have to go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am pretty sure that it is fairly simple to make a "pigtail" to adapt the XLR inputs to RCA. You lose the benefits of the XLR connection but it is no worse than RCA ( assuming of course that you use high quality wire and connectors). Lavry is now shipping this with his new DA11.
 In this case, I would think having a C2C with XLR and CAST inputs would be prety awesome... in fact.. I am seriously considering ordering one... and then a Reference 3 when it comes out. Then I can move my prototype Compass to my office and have the Ref 3 and C2C CAST Combo running at home... by then, perhaps we will have HD800s thoroughly reviewed... and I can sell my soul for one... that is if my soul increases in value!


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am pretty sure that it is fairly simple to make a "pigtail" to adapt the XLR inputs to RCA._

 

Maybe we can ask Kingwa to make some of these and make it an optional add-on if the C2C with CAST input becomes popular. 

 I am also drooling over a possible DAC with CAST combo with the C2C, but the most viable option for me right now is the DAC 19SE, it will probably still be cheaper than the upcoming Reference 1 and 2 DACs


----------



## senn_liu

this thread is evolving from the compass thread to the "what is my audio-gd upgrade path after the compass?" thread, heh.

 and mbd, i think you'd make a great henchman/bodyguard. "don't talk crap about xyz!" *dishes out pounding*


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this thread is evolving from the compass thread to the "what is my audio-gd upgrade path after the compass?" thread, heh._

 

Hehe we can't help it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kingwa is making a lot of good products very quickly


----------



## moodyrn

You need to stop mixing my words. I never said the compass did any upsampling to 16/24. I stated that it's an oversampling dac. There's a difference between. Upsampling and over sampling. I did see in one post I said made a mistake and said upsampling, if you check all the rest, I said oversampling. Do you homework. Over sampling does not taka a 16/44.1 signal and up samples it to 24/96. Nor did I say it did. I also didn't say anything about wanting a valab. I wasn't even the one who brought it up. All of my post has been toward how I can' wait to get a compass. So get your facts straight. Oh I know your can't help yourself. This has happened numerous times. You just love being wrong. So I'm not going to go back and forth with you. You already have a reputation. So everyone already knows.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Moodryn you gotta stop with this upsampling bullcrap. You feed the DAC 44.1 16 bit, bit perfect output, the Compass won't upsample it to 48 or 96. You gotta stop, stop it now, if you are too incompetent to setup Winamp, Foobar, Media Monkey correctly, not our problem, nor is it Audio-gd's. Don't like the DAC, buy the Valab, no one cares. I trust the ears of Peete, Curra over some marketing bullcrud by Valab.

 And for gevorg, stop being lazy. Peete and Currawong themselves have done extensive testing of just the amp._


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You need to stop mixing my words. I never said the compass did any upsampling to 16/24. I stated that it's an oversampling dac. There's a difference between. Upsampling and over sampling. I did see in one post I said made a mistake and said upsampling, if you check all the rest, I said oversampling. Do you homework. Over sampling does not taka a 16/44.1 signal and up samples it to 24/96. Nor did I say it did. I also didn't say anything about wanting a valab. I wasn't even the one who brought it up. All of my post has been toward how I can' wait to get a compass. So get your facts straight. Oh I know your can't help yourself. This has happened numerous times. You just love being wrong. So I'm not going to go back and forth with you. You already have a reputation. So everyone already knows._

 

Just add him to your ignore list. Hes the first, and only, person I have put on mine. I love technology =D 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Once I get the Compass in the mail, the first step for me will be to configure my media players appropriately.


----------



## csroc

I've played with a bunch of the different media players and audio configurations, wound up going back to a simpler setup that just worked. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And mbd, well he seems to have a lot of people on his ignore list... I can't imagine why.


----------



## punk_guy182

A'ight guys!

 I think that we should all get laid to get rid of the overbuilding tension around the Compass but not all together.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where does it say in the PDF that it up-samples?_

 

No where. The Sigma Delta process is for digital filtering....it is not upsampled in the traditional sense, what goes in is what comes out. It's funny I spent some time yesterday looking at both data sheets for the CS8416 and the AD1852 for the Zero, had a look in here and noticed the talk was centered around 1852 and what it does.

 Here's a link that should help everyone understand what is happening with the Sigma Delta chips...well for the most part ...

Analog Devices: It may be Greek to you, but sigma delta converters are not really hard to understand. :: Analog to Digital Converters

 The DSP chip is as important (if not more) to the circuit as is the type of DAC chosen followed very closely by quality of power supply (supplies). If the PSU is compromised the DSP/DAC chips won't matter all that much...it'll sound like ass until you give them a top notch power supply. That should give you pause for thought and explain why the power supplies in all of Kingwa's DAC's (and other gear) are so carefully constructed and (seemingly) massively overbuilt. 


 Peete.


----------



## Dan Lavry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am pretty sure that it is fairly simple to make a "pigtail" to adapt the XLR inputs to RCA. You lose the benefits of the XLR connection but it is no worse than RCA ( assuming of course that you use high quality wire and connectors). Lavry is now shipping this with his new DA11....
 value!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Every new DA11 box comes with a pair of XLR to RCA adapters. 
 They are high quality, and cause no degradation (as clearly stated in the product manual under specifications). 

 While it is "fairly simple to make a "pigtail" to adapt the XLR inputs to RCA", we supply the unit with the adapters to make the DA11 ready for RCA connector use right out of the box.

 Regards
 Dan Lavry
www.lavryengineering.com


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Meh, I'm going to spend some time with John Watkinson's Introduction to Digital Audio. I'm getting tired of not quite knowing what I'm talking about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Be prepared for a lot of insomnia cure type nomenclature......just check the link I posted (for the simple explanation of Sigma Delta) for a small sample of such...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your right though, educated person = informed person 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats to Curra on the status upgrade (although to me he was already a Supremus before the tittle change).

 Peete.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dan Lavry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Every new DA11 box comes with a pair of XLR to RCA adapters. 
 They are high quality, and cause no degradation (as clearly stated in the product manual under specifications). 

 While it is "fairly simple to make a "pigtail" to adapt the XLR inputs to RCA", we supply the unit with the adapters to make the DA11 ready for RCA connector use right out of the box.

 Regards
 Dan Lavry
Lavry Engineering - Unsurpassed Excellence_

 

Thanks Dan for your input. 

 Well this is good news for those who want CAST in their C2Cs, Im sure a similar XLR to RCA adapter can be sourced somewhere else like here


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dan Lavry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Every new DA11 box comes with a pair of XLR to RCA adapters. 
 They are high quality, and cause no degradation (as clearly stated in the product manual under specifications). 

 While it is "fairly simple to make a "pigtail" to adapt the XLR inputs to RCA", we supply the unit with the adapters to make the DA11 ready for RCA connector use right out of the box.

 Regards
 Dan Lavry
Lavry Engineering - Unsurpassed Excellence_

 

Thanks Dan. I have followed your products for many years and do not doubt that a DA11 ( or maybe a used DA10 being sold cheaply!) is in my future also.
 You have made some great stuff and contributed greatly to A/D and D/A product design over the years. Thanks!!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Be prepared for a lot of insomnia cure type nomenclature......just check the link I posted (for the simple explanation of Sigma Delta) for a small sample of such...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's ok, I'm used to reading technical stuff, just in a different field. And at least that book is just the digest version of his "The Art of Digital Audio".

 I'll check out that link too. Thanks!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It occurs to me that this question doesn't really belong in the Compass thread.....I'm not nitpicking I'm just trying to keep the thread on topic ...

 I'm fairly certain the C2C does not differentiate the type of input signal for a "CAST" like function. I think you guys have mixed things up a little. Full CAST requires the dedicated circuitry if I'm not mistaken.

 Here is the C2C page's explanation.....you guys need to read this stuff before posting questions that are answered on the C2C page itself.....


 "Design Features:

 The technology employed in C-2C Headphone amplifier is at par with KRELL. Previously, this technology was used only in very high-end gears of famous manufacturers. BPM-7110 module is composed of all discrete transistors; *it adopts a current working style* which guarantees ultra low distortion. This special technique and circuit counteract the non-linearity caused by transistor. The output signal depends entirely on the resistors in the module. The resistors used in our BPM7110 module are the expensive and accurate Israel VISHEY resistors imported from USA. This module sells for over 60,000 yen in Japan. When BPM-7110 with current technology is adopted to make headphone amplifier, the voltage gain and the volume can be synchronously adjusted. Therefore, a high SNR and a low distortion are achieved. Even with a slightly higher gain, there is no overload distortion in effective output range. 
 This circuit has exceptionally high sound restoration ability.



*You can input XLR balanced signal or RCA unbalanced signal. No matter what kind of signal is input, it has the ability to transfer it to current signal and amplify it.*



 The output stage is also elaborately designed. By applying cascode circuit which is combined by bi-polar transistor and FET transistor, this board not only achieves a better linearity, but also improves the driving force to a higher level than that with pure field effect transistor. Therefore, the sound delivery is more lively and enchanting.

 To achieve a better effect, C-2C also employs the complex parallel stabilized voltage supply to get a purer power supply, so that better sound quality is guaranteed. 

 C-2C uses all aluminum chassis (Black). Dimensions: width 250mm, height 75mm and depth 290mm. Panel thicknesses 8mm.

 The balanced XLR input sockets of C-2 are both expensive Neutrik products. Other sockets include RCA socket of CMC, etc. It is soldered with WBT silver solder."

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's ok, I'm used to reading technical stuff, just in a different field. And at least that book is just the digest version of his "The Art of Digital Audio".

 I'll check out that link too. Thanks!_

 

Let me know the details (links, publisher etc) of this book Dro...I'm interested in it as well. For some reason I have a DAC and Tube amp fetish (to go along with the Planar/Ribbon fetish...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Peete.


----------



## Dan Lavry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Dan for your input. 

 Well this is good news for those who want CAST in their C2Cs, Im sure a similar XLR to RCA adapter can be sourced somewhere else like here



_

 

Yes, you can buy such adapters from a few manufacturers, but they are not all the same quality. Of course one issue is the mechanical construction, but less obvious is the electrical characteristics. One would think that all of those "simple devices" should be fine, but it is not so! When you order such an adapter, most often the seller does not tell you the manufacturer, and they may substitute a different brand at different times. 

 One of those adapter brands introduced clear distortions (measured on an Audio Precision test system). I opened it, and the connection was not even a soldered wire, it was based on some really poor "friction" and one of the conductors was the case itself... I was really surprised.

 Regards
 Dan Lavry


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me know the details (links, publisher etc) of this book Dro...I'm interested in it as well. For some reason I have a DAC and Tube amp fetish (to go along with the Planar/Ribbon fetish...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)

 Peete._

 

Amazon links might be easiest:

An Introduction to Digital Audio

The Art of Digital Audio

 Not cheap these, certainly the second one. And I doubt they will really help you in your DIY efforts. They might not be quite 'practical' enough.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It occurs to me that this question doesn't really belong in the Compass thread.....I'm not nitpicking I'm just trying to keep the thread on topic ...

 I'm fairly certain the C2C does not differentiate the type of input signal for a "CAST" like function. I think you guys have mixed things up a little. Full CAST requires the dedicated circuitry if I'm not mistaken.

 Here is the C2C page's explanation.....you guys need to read this stuff before posting questions that are answered on the C2C page itself.....
_

 

I was just reacting to the the statement by Kingwa that he will make a C2C with CAST input by request. I would imagine Kingwa would be familiar with the CAST implementation and the circuit design of the C2C. 
 Since this is new information NOT posted on the C2C page, I figured it was worth a comment.
 And yes... this thread has more discussion of other Audio-gd products than it does the Compass these days. That will likely change when the next batch arrives in people's hands.


----------



## haloxt

Just wondering, how many of you guys would like to see crossfeed, either in compass or a future headphone product by Kingwa? (Assuming it won't compromise the sq when switched off)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was just reacting to the the statement by Kingwa that he will make a C2C with CAST input by request. I would imagine Kingwa would be familiar with the CAST implementation and the circuit design of the C2C. 
 Since this is new information NOT posted on the C2C page, I figured it was worth a comment.
 And yes... this thread has more discussion of other Audio-gd products than it does the Compass these days. That will likely change when the next batch arrives in people's hands._

 

I missed that part of the conversation. Pleas pardon my reaction accordingly...

 Peete.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And yes... this thread has more discussion of other Audio-gd products than it does the Compass these days. That will likely change when the next batch arrives in people's hands._

 

You can count on that!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Not interested in cross feed but that's just my position on it. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Dang it a double post.....

 I wonder if CAST inputs for the C2C could be an order time option to make use of a source (Ref 1 DAC for example) with CAST outputs ?

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was browsing through the new webpages of REF 1 & 2 and noticed this for both.........

 So I guess if I want this I have to factor in an additional 60USD for the cables ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's not such a bad thing if they make the same difference to the sound that they did for my Northstar.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dan Lavry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, you can buy such adapters from a few manufacturers, but they are not all the same quality. Of course one issue is the mechanical construction, but less obvious is the electrical characteristics. One would think that all of those "simple devices" should be fine, but it is not so! When you order such an adapter, most often the seller does not tell you the manufacturer, and they may substitute a different brand at different times. 

 One of those adapter brands introduced clear distortions (measured on an Audio Precision test system). I opened it, and the connection was not even a soldered wire, it was based on some really poor "friction" and one of the conductors was the case itself... I was really surprised.

 Regards
 Dan Lavry_

 

Thanks Dan. This confirms what I've heard. I have headphone adaptors that audibly distorted the sound. It still amazes me to see music stores where I live sell very expensive gear, then cheap rubbish adaptors and cables for that gear.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I missed that part of the conversation. Pleas pardon my reaction accordingly...

 Peete._

 

No problem! I know you are always courteous and friendly unless you have good reason!


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dang it a double post.....

 I wonder if CAST inputs for the C2C could be an order time option to make use of a source (Ref 1 DAC for example) with CAST outputs ?

 Peete._

 

I think that was sort of what was implied... except you have to know that it is an option since it is not listed on the C2C page. I think this makes the C2C a really nice option... even better than it was before.
 I am thinking that perhaps I will get the new version of the Compass ( assuming all is well with the updated headphone circuit) and ALSO get the C2C. This would allow me to keep the Compass tone settings at Soft 1 or 2 to use with less than ideal recordings, and then have the C2C for the best recordings. I could use the bypass switch to swap between headphone jacks. Then in the future I could add both the Reference 3 ( same size chassis as the Compass) and the new amplifier that Kingwa is designing to match the Compass. This would give me dueling DACs, Preamp out to an amp to power speakers and a CAST connection to a nice headphone amp.
 Then add 2 HD800s so that I could have them both plugged into the headphone outs of the Compass and C2C ( so I would not have to unplug to switch amps)... then I could buy a Ferrari... then I could wake up and realize I didn't buy any of this at all!


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dan Lavry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, you can buy such adapters from a few manufacturers, but they are not all the same quality. Of course one issue is the mechanical construction, but less obvious is the electrical characteristics. One would think that all of those "simple devices" should be fine, but it is not so! When you order such an adapter, most often the seller does not tell you the manufacturer, and they may substitute a different brand at different times. 

 One of those adapter brands introduced clear distortions (measured on an Audio Precision test system). I opened it, and the connection was not even a soldered wire, it was based on some really poor "friction" and one of the conductors was the case itself... I was really surprised.

 Regards
 Dan Lavry_

 

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It saves us the trouble of wondering if there will be distortion or not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's not such a bad thing if they make the same difference to the sound that they did for my Northstar._

 

I trust your ears, so I'll also definitely get the power cord with the compass (or with any of my future audio-gd purchases)


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I trust your ears, so I'll also definitely get the power cord with the compass (or with any of my future audio-gd purchases) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Trusting your own ears is more important.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Trusting your own ears is more important. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But not much gears to audition around here


----------



## mbd2884

Cross-Feed sounds like degradation to my ears. Too much changed. I've listened to music without cross feed for too many years, cross feed sounds abnormal to me.

 Whether sound is kept pure or not, it sounds wrong to my ears, not a fan.


----------



## csroc

I like crossfeed for some things and certainly wouldn't mind seeing it on any headphone amp as long as it can be completely disengaged. But even though my preference is towards speakers and crossfeed is intended to address a headphone related situation that speakers don't have, I still don't need it the majority of the time.


----------



## K3cT

There's always Bauer Stereophonic-to-Binaural plugin for Foobar 2k.


----------



## csroc

I've got a couple different plugins, they're not too bad. Not that I don't mind a nice hardware solution 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The Meier Cross-1 is what I plan to DIY next. I just need to get around to putting it all together and making my custom PCB for it.


----------



## Taikero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's always Bauer Stereophonic-to-Binaural plugin for Foobar 2k._

 

I'll second that.

Bauer stereophonic-to-binaural DSP


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dan Lavry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, you can buy such adapters from a few manufacturers, but they are not all the same quality. Of course one issue is the mechanical construction, but less obvious is the electrical characteristics. One would think that all of those "simple devices" should be fine, but it is not so! When you order such an adapter, most often the seller does not tell you the manufacturer, and they may substitute a different brand at different times. 

 One of those adapter brands introduced clear distortions (measured on an Audio Precision test system). I opened it, and the connection was not even a soldered wire, it was based on some really poor "friction" and one of the conductors was the case itself... I was really surprised.

 Regards
 Dan Lavry_

 

I don't think its placebo, when I stopped using an adapter from 1/8 to 1/4, using Furutech, music sounded better. Wonder if this is similar to what Lavry is referring to as I know the adapters he is speaking of are more complicated. So the question is, for others who have 1/8 terminated cans, do adapters have similar effect as mentioned by Lavry?


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think its placebo, when I stopped using an adapter from 1/8 to 1/4, using Furutech, music sounded better. Wonder if this is similar to what Lavry is referring to as I know the adapters he is speaking of are more complicated. So the question is, for others who have 1/8 terminated cans, do adapters have similar effect as mentioned by Lavry?_

 

I think his point was that cheap adapters can adversely affect sound quality... although he also stated earlier in the thread that a well made adapter with a nice connector and wire and soldered connections have absolutely no effect on sound quality. In fact he includes one with his new DA11 so that people can use the XLR outputs with RCA cables. He was just cautioning people to use good quality stuff because cheaply made XLR to RCA adapters can be terrible sounding.


----------



## haloxt

A fun test would be to alternate 1/4 to 1/8 adapters and 1/8 to 1/4 adapters until you have 10 adapters between the headphone out and your headphone cable. I gave up doing the test with just two adapters because I got new headphones and they are sounding kooky while burning in atm.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think his point was that cheap adapters can adversely affect sound quality... although he also stated earlier in the thread that a well made adapter with a nice connector and wire and soldered connections have absolutely no effect on sound quality. In fact he includes one with his new DA11 so that people can use the XLR outputs with RCA cables. He was just cautioning people to use good quality stuff because cheaply made XLR to RCA adapters can be terrible sounding._

 

I wasn't criticizing his statement. Was trying to find out if his explanation applies to plug adapters also.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wasn't criticizing his statement. Was trying to find out if his explanation applies to plug adapters also._

 

Nor was I criticizing yours. I was just trying to clarify that although he said some adapters hurt the sound, a properly made one is transparent. I was thinking about how a 1/8 to 1/4 is made and unless I am mistaken it uses friction fit pieces and sometimes also uses the case of the adaptor as a signal path... so it is likely that what Lavry was talking about applies to what you are talking about. I cannot remember ever seeing a 1/4 to 1/8 headphone adapter that uses soldered connections.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think its placebo, when I stopped using an adapter from 1/8 to 1/4, using Furutech, music sounded better. Wonder if this is similar to what Lavry is referring to as I know the adapters he is speaking of are more complicated. So the question is, for others who have 1/8 terminated cans, do adapters have similar effect as mentioned by Lavry?_

 

I own a 1/4-1/8th adaptor that, without any doubt, changes the sound. The particular brand called itself "Monitor Audio" or somesuch and made low-quality rip-offs of famous connectors, such as Van Den Hul. The change it makes to the sound is so significant you can hear it even with cheap headphones. Most of my other adaptors make a much smaller difference.


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Taikero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll second that.

Bauer stereophonic-to-binaural DSP_

 

This is a nice DSP, it actually makes a difference unlike the Foobar's built-in crossfeed.


----------



## lag0a

I tried the Bauer stereophonic-to-binaural DSP and it does make a difference, but at the cost of some sound effects like treble at the top end that makes the sound more real to the ear. With the easy mode checked and crossfeed at max, it lowers the overall sound so it is less fatiguing. With the easy mode unchecked and crossfeed at max, I'm not quite sure what is happening. I decided its better not to use the DSP and lower foobar's volume if the headphone's sound is too fatiguing. My foobar2k originally use no DSPs. Do DSPs change the sound quality for the worse mostly?


----------



## Taikero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lag0a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried the Bauer stereophonic-to-binaural DSP and it does make a difference, but at the cost of some sound effects like treble at the top end that makes the sound more real to the ear. With the easy mode checked and crossfeed at max, it lowers the overall sound so it is less fatiguing. With the easy mode unchecked and crossfeed at max, I'm not quite sure what is happening. I decided its better not to use the DSP and lower foobar's volume if the headphone's sound is too fatiguing. My foobar2k originally use no DSPs. Do DSPs change the sound quality for the worse mostly?_

 

Bauer's Stereophonic-To-Binaural DSP is configurable in the following way:

 Easy unchecked = Original algorithm. Cuts upper treble out more than some like.
 Easy checked = Sets an upper limit on the algorithm (or at least lessens its effect) so that the higher frequencies make it through without being quite so dampened.
 Min/Med/Max = Intensity of the BS2B algorithm.

 I personally set mine to Easy + Minimum/Medium. Anything else is too much, IMO. It's a great plugin, for sure.

 P.S. I found a 64 bit version that works with foobar2000 0.9.6 in Vista: BS2B foobar2000 0.9.6 Vista 64 Download File on FileFront


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I don't have an amp that utilises CAST technology, then I don't really have any reason to care for a DAC that has CAST (assuming I don't plan on upgrading my amp)?

 Would I be right to think that?_

 

Anyone?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Not necessarily .. here is what Kingwa's website says..

  Quote:


 DAC Reference Two Applies Current Transmission Technology , even though maybe you only connect to XLR or RCA output, but Reference Two will always operate in CAST technology, and benefit from CAST technology, Therefore, XLR and RCA output will also definitely bring about improvement in SQ.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


 DAC Reference Two Applies Current Transmission Technology , even though maybe you only connect to XLR or RCA output, but Reference Two will always operate in CAST technology, and benefit from CAST technology, Therefore, XLR and RCA output will also definitely bring about improvement in SQ. 
 

This is comforting to read, no need to be limited to CAST only components


----------



## peepee-king

Alright, first of all I know I'm 2-3 weeks late. I haven't read the whole thread so I've missed plenty but I've been informed about the progress of the project by a friend of mine.

 Getting down to the crunch, I'm going to post an alternative aesthetic appearance. I'm aware this has been discussed thoroughly and that the final design seems to be very much set and solid but I'd still like to chime in. The revised interface seemed to improve on the older versions greatly so most of my ideas are based on this.

 I was quite pleased with the back of the unit, it's well formatted and spaced. I took the liberty of mocking it up on a real unit and can say that it works pretty well. Nothing much needs to be changed here at all.







 When it came to the front however, I saw that it could do with some dramatic improvements. I'm not sure of the limitations regarding the positioning of each individual component but I tried to stay true to the original as possible. The biggest adjustment I've made is obviously the removal of the large Neutrik plug. It's a great plug no doubt, but in all seriousness it looks down-right ugly. I'm sure a smaller non locking Neutrik plug would perform very well without distracting from the design as this one does.

 I also think it would be nice to have led indicators for the 'super' and current input modes. For this to happen I had to shrink down the size of the knobs. I don't know what knobs audio-gd have access to but something like the one found on Darkvoice amps would fit in quite well.

 The last change I made is more of a finishing touch. I changed the silver buttons to black polished metal, it's actually the one found on the DAC-100. I've been told the size of the holes are different however.






 I know these suggestions probably won't make it to the production line but with the Compass being something I'm more than likely to purchase in the near future I felt obliged to give my feedback.

*EDIT: This is what the current unit with the revised layout 'should' look like.*


----------



## WC Annihilus

Final design was decided probably 20 pages ago by community vote and no one really wants to get into it again.

 Edit: didn't read your post too thoroughly and see now you saw that. Looks kinda nice mocked up like on an actual unit picture, but tbh I don't care for it as much, though I do agree the non-locking jack looks cleaner. Think you could do a mockup of the final design on a unit pic to show people what they really decided on? Also you have to keep in mind that several of the components were shifted in the final design to give things a more balanced clean look, so that may perhaps be why I prefer it over yours


----------



## sandchak

Really neat work, Peepee. Its always better to see it like the way you have presented it (visually)..


----------



## Drosera

Great work Peepee! I wish I had your skills with graphics editing.

 I particularly love the led indicators for the input selection.

 Some (constructive) criticisms:

 You shouldn't make the volume knobs that small. They are perfect as they are now, they may look big in pictures but they fit perfectly when you see the unit 'in the flesh' (or 'in the aluminium'). Moreover, they have a perfect 'feel' at their current size too.

 Your choice for another jack maybe more aesthetically pleasing, but I'm afraid a lot of people here seem to have a fetish for Neutrik locking jacks. Also, most other Neutrik jacks are much more difficult to attach well to the chassis. As far as I know, the majority of Neutrik jacks are even PCB-mounted. That wouldn't really be an option with the Compass.

 But again, very nice work indeed. As you already assumed, probably not something that could still be incorporated in the Compass design, we seem to be past that phase (thankfully). But I would suggest this design should be shown to Kingwa as a suggestion for design aesthetics of future products. (Just something for him to keep in mind.)


----------



## decayed.cell

It should be possible to mount the neutrik with the silver plate on the other side though. It seems like a great jack, its just bloody ugly imo lol. Kingwa says he can't get the buttons in black, but he's happy to drill and solder another LED on for the Super button


----------



## peepee-king

I've already emailed Kingwa, he wanted to get Currawongs opinion on the matter first. I also suggested keeping the Neutrik plug but changing it to the all black version, unfortunately he doesn't have access to these.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should be possible to mount the neutrik with the silver plate on the other side though._

 

I don't think so. The only way to do that would be to remove the locking mechanism from the jack, because in a Neutrik locking jack you need to press that red lever all the way to the silver plate to unlock it.

 By the way, if a black jack (ha!) is that important to some people I'm sure Kingwa wouldn't mind it if people bought it themselves and sent it to Audio-gd for him to attach it to the unit for that person.


----------



## peepee-king

If the locking mechanism is removed (I've seen this done before, along with the plate being on the other side), do the jacks still plug in correctly? What I mean is; do they still plug in and out with the same amount of resistance other plugs typically have?

 BTW It's not that it's particularly important for me alone, I just believe that it should be appealing to all consumers. We love the Neutrik plug yes, but those who aren't as tech-savvy may sway to a nicer looking unit.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peepee-king* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've already emailed Kingwa, he wanted to get Currawongs opinion on the matter first. I also suggested keeping the Neutrik plug but changing it to the all black version, unfortunately he doesn't have access to these._

 

I have to say, when I started this thread, I had no idea it would become anything like it has. I imagined that I was about 80-90% right about what specs the Zero alternative should have, and that people would offer a couple of suggestions that I'd missed, with Kingwa figuring out the rest, because, after all, he's an audio engineer and I'm not.

 I'm rather in awe at what has come from this, with people contributing so much towards the project. So it's rather funny to read that comment, that Kingwa would like my opinion on the jacks. I imagined, for whatever reason, Kingwa wanted to use locking headphone jacks, and didn't think as to why. My contribution was to suggest, quite strongly, that he use the real Neutriks jacks, not the poor imitation ones. There's no need though for locking jacks. I only imagine that manufacturers use them for better sound quality as a result of better contact with the headphone plugs, which aren't really an ideal design for good electrical contacts.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peepee-king* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the locking mechanism is removed (I've seen this done before, along with the plate being on the other side), do the jacks still plug in correctly? What I mean is; do they still plug in and out with the same amount of resistance other jacks typically have?

 BTW It's not that it's particularly important for me alone, I just believe that it should be appealing to all consumers. We love the Neutrik plug yes, but those who aren't as tech-savvy may sway to a nicer looking unit._

 

Studying one of these I happen to have lying around with a flashlight (I don't want to take it apart) it's not really possible for me to say if it would still hold the jack securely or not. I would think so, but it's hard to be sure.

 But, as I already mentioned in my review, I think a Neutrik combojack (without locking mechanism) would work just as well as the present locking jack. It certainly has the same secure feel in the way it holds the plug. It could be that it's slightly more difficult to attach these securely to the chassis though, at least in way where the screws would not be visible.


----------



## greenarrow

Having a lighted volume control knob is a very good cosmetic enhancment to the already beautiful Compass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Btw, can I use the coax output from my Asus P5Q Deluxe motherboard to the coax input on the compass? Must I still use the usb to connect as well?
 I can't wait to have my Compass delivers as I've a brand new K702 with me. This is for the Compass.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Having a lighted volume control knob is a very good cosmetic enhancment to the already beautiful Compass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Btw, can I use the coax output from my Asus P5Q Deluxe motherboard to the coax input on the compass? Must I still use the usb to connect as well?
 I can't wait to have my Compass delivers as I've a brand new K702 with me. This is for the Compass._

 

Yup you could use either your coax or usb. No need to plug in the usb if you want to use your coax 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ----------

 Weird, audio-gd's email server seems to be down. I didn't receive the customary auto-reply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 @peepee - nice work


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, can I use the coax output from my Asus P5Q Deluxe motherboard to the coax input on the compass? Must I still use the usb to connect as well?
 I can't wait to have my Compass delivers as I've a brand new K702 with me. This is for the Compass._

 

You can use both or either of those outputs. But I wouldn't be completely surprised if the USB output ends up sounding better than the coax. No way to tell beforehand though. Try them and see which one sounds best.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Weird, audio-gd's email server seems to be down. I didn't receive the customary auto-reply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

After the 3rd or 4th mail of the day by the same person, customary auto-reply stops !!..


----------



## Hens

New to Head-Fi but I've been following this thread with much interest for some time now and wanted to commend the 18 testers for doing such a great job - the final version not only seems to deliver great sound but also looks very classy. Congratulations. 

 I've just taken delivery of the C-2C and am still thinking about the Compass for a 2nd system. The C-2C already sounds stunning with the AKG K702's but I'll be interested to see how it improves with burn-in - Curra, what was your experience with burn-in on your C-2C?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After the 3rd or 4th mail of the day by the same person, customary auto-reply stops !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

After ten emails you get an automated message that reads: "Stop bothering Kingwa!"


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, can I use the coax output from my Asus P5Q Deluxe motherboard to the coax input on the compass? Must I still use the usb to connect as well?
 I can't wait to have my Compass delivers as I've a brand new K702 with me. This is for the Compass._

 

 I was using P5KSE out to Compass and when plugged USB the difference was clearly for the worse. After some time they sound the same to me. I would like to see what's your experience with that too. About your headphone... begin to burn it right now!


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After the 3rd or 4th mail of the day by the same person, customary auto-reply stops !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

OIC, hehe thanks for that info.

 I just finished paying for a C2C and from what I see from the paypal transaction, his name is spelled as Qinghua 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But from emails he uses Kingwa 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After ten emails you get an automated message that reads: "Stop bothering Kingwa!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haha, Im sure Kingwa didn't mind the "Payment Received" email notification


----------



## ScottieB

Ha and then my emails all started being from "Cherry" - if Kingwa is Qinghua (westernized spelling??) then what is "Cherry" for real???


----------



## csroc

Regarding the headphone jack. I don't mind the locking Neutrik, I'd like it in all black but Kingwa can't get those unfortunately. I happen to have a spare one myself though so maybe I'll just swap it out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I imagine if we started adding a lot of extra LEDs to the front some may be resistant to that change. Kingwa emailed me last night regarding some of the ideas I am seeing proposed in the last day for some help on deciding what to do so I imagine he was trying to balance making us happy and getting it done but couldn't decide. 

 Although I don't want to stifle anyone's input I think so many great ideas have been provided by many people not just for the design but the internal components and I don't want to risk further delaying production of the final Compass. Can't please everyone obviously but I think we've reached a reasonable result.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really neat work, Peepee. Its always better to see it like the way you have presented it (visually).._

 

Yeah that's very nice. I'm sorry I never got around to doing that myself, it was on my to-do list in a way but after spending so much time on the design process I wanted to take a break and then I forgot. Woops!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After the 3rd or 4th mail of the day by the same person, customary auto-reply stops !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oohh that explains a lot haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kingwa and I have gone back and forth so much some days that we were well beyond that point.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha and then my emails all started being from "Cherry" - if Kingwa is Qinghua (westernized spelling??) then what is "Cherry" for real???_

 

Interesting question.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just finished paying for a C2C and from what I see from the paypal transaction, his name is spelled as Qinghua 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But from emails he uses Kingwa 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

True, he is actually called He Qinghua, but I think he chose Kingwa because that spelling avoids both misspelling and (too outrageous) mispronounciation by non-Chinese.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha and then my emails all started being from "Cherry" - if Kingwa is Qinghua (westernized spelling??) then what is "Cherry" for real???_

 

Probably something totally unrelated. People from Hongkong and surroundings often choose a Western first name for their communications to non-Chinese people. The Western name usually doesn't have anything to do with their given names.

 In fact, it's not even a 100% save to assume that someone named Cherry is a woman. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think in this case it is though, she might be a new employee that Kingwa hired to take care of English communication and translations.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_True, he is actually called He Qinghua, but I think he chose Kingwa because that spelling avoids both misspelling and (too outrageous) mispronounciation by non-Chinese._

 

Yeah I have a rough idea of how Qinghua is likely pronounced. I've had a Korean roommate and worked with quite a few Chinese people so I'm good at figuring out how to correctly say most Chinese names although some still stump me.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I have a rough idea of how Qinghua is likely pronounced. I've had a Korean roommate and worked with quite a few Chinese people so I'm good at figuring out how to correctly say most Chinese names although some still stump me._

 

Well, when you know that, you'll probably also know that Kingwa actually sounds only very approximately the same as Qinghua (if pronounced correctly). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I watch a lot of Chinese movies. I picked a surprising bit of Cantonese already that way.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, when you know that, you'll probably also know that Kingwa actually sounds only very approximately the same as Qinghua (if pronounced correctly). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I watch a lot of Chinese movies. I picked a surprising bit of Cantonese already that way._

 

Oh I know, Kingwa is close but if I'm right on how his real name is pronounced, it's certainly not the same thing


----------



## haloxt

peepee-king, those blue LED's are very nice. I like most of your redesign but sadly I think changing those components and rearranging the faceplate knob sockets will be too time-consuming to implement at this late a time.

 People can only guess the pronunciation of Chinese words in English translations unless they are pronunciation translations with capitalized letters in the middle of words (like a dictionary telling you how to say something)..

  Quote:


 Each Chinese character has one syllable, and in Pinyin, the official pronunciation system used in mainland China, there are 403 possible spoken syllables. Syllables can be pronounced with one of four tones (level, rising, falling, and falling-and-rising), each tone giving the syllable a different meaning. The tones account for what many westerners regard as the singsong quality of east Asian speech.


----------



## haloxt

.


----------



## csroc

I think he has good ideas too, but Kingwa has to draw the line somewhere and make the things. I think he's done that.











 I mocked them up with some fresh pictures of my Compass and the original vector design files so it's a little tidier.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_People can only guess the pronunciation of Chinese words in English translations unless they are pronunciation translations with capitalized letters in the middle of words (like a dictionary telling you how to say something).._

 

And even then... You're absolutely right, there are also some Chinese expressions (not just single words) that can mean completely differents things based on tone height and which particular word is stressed.

 I wish I had been offered the opportunity to learn the language when I was fifteen or so and still had a chance of achieving some fluency. (This is happening now in some Dutch schools. Very useful, IMO.)


----------



## csroc

Agreed Drosera, the earlier the better. I'd like to learn some additional languages but the time and effort to do so is hard to come by for many people. Immersion seems to be a pretty effective method for some folks though. Just go and stick yourself in a foreign land with a foreign tongue and you better hope you pick it up quick!


----------



## godluvsxs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha and then my emails all started being from "Cherry" - if Kingwa is Qinghua (westernized spelling??) then what is "Cherry" for real???_

 

Cherry should be Kingwa's new customer service 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think around 1 month ago he's start recruiting new technicians and one female customer service which assign to deal with emails


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed Drosera, the earlier the better. I'd like to learn some additional languages but the time and effort to do so is hard to come by for many people. Immersion seems to be a pretty effective method for some folks though. Just go and stick yourself in a foreign land with a foreign tongue and you better hope you pick it up quick!_

 

Definitely, your memory faculties will start going downhill from about the time your fifteen. Thank goodness I have a good memory anyways, but it was quite hard to pick up a completely new language like I did a few years ago. And I'm not really that old yet.

 The rule is basically: if you can't lean by rote then you have to learn by immersion. But immersion is always better.

 Well, just apply for a job as English teacher in China. You can be at work there tomorrow if you like.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think he has good ideas too, but Kingwa has to draw the line somewhere and make the things. I think he's done that.

 I mocked them up with some fresh pictures of my Compass and the original vector design files so it's a little tidier._

 

Looks great here Csorc, sorry but I like this more than Peep's design and I mean no offense to Peepee, I mean I have own my personal taste and it will differ from others, to me this design looks simple and not overbearing, it looks more like what Compass was meant to be.. 

 Yes, I guess Csroc is right, in terms of Kingwa having to draw a line somewhere, the design has already reached the Chassis manufacturer and he says he is ordering 300 pcs this time, and that he also needs to standardize the Compass design as he cant afford to keep changing the design every 100 Compass..
 I think he also feels the amount of LEDS in the new design will require more soldering - more time in labor- which may delay the entire process.. Plus my guess is maybe all this will add to the circuitry which might effect the SQ (??)- I don't know this is purely my personal guess..


 Hope this helps as its from the man himself ...

  Quote:


 My name QingHua, it is a Chinese name, but officially, we must use Chinese characters "庆华", QingHua is not the official name in China, it is only used for overseas purpose.
 "Kingwa" is pronounced close to my Cantonese name.
 Cantonese pronunciation is very different from Chinese .


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks great here Csorc, sorry but I like this more than Peep's design and I mean no offense to Peepee, I mean I have own my personal taste and it will differ from others, to me this design looks simple and not overbearing, it looks more like what Compass was meant to be.. 

 Yes, I guess Csroc is right, in terms of Kingwa having to draw a line somewhere, the design has already reached the Chassis manufacturer and he says he is ordering 300 pcs this time, and that he also needs to standardize the Compass design as he cant afford to keep changing the design every 100 Compass.._

 

He didn't tell me numbers or anything but that was what I suggested in response to his email I got late last night (that there will always be more ideas but I think at this point being able to ship in a reasonable time is more important). He was basically asking if some of the changes someone else had emailed him about were a good idea. 

  Quote:


 I think he also feels the amount of LEDS in the new design will require more soldering - more time in labor- which may delay the entire process.. Plus my guess is maybe all this will add to the circuitry which might effect the SQ (??)- I don't know this is purely my personal guess.. 
 

Possibly, it's certainly more work and more parts and materials which makes it more expensive to make. I also think that as someone pointed out dozens of pages ago, having the selector knob labels be at the top is the best layout for readability for the vast majority of situations.


 Good point on the distinction between the different dialects and how they pronounce things. I think most of the Chinese I've known are Mandarin actually but I'm not sure. I certainly doubt I've had enough experience to know how to properly pronounce things in different dialects.


----------



## peepee-king

Alright before I go off to work I'm going to have one last and most likely futile attempt to convince Kingwa to change the design... BRING ON THE FLAMES PEOPLE! ;p






 Enjoy!


----------



## haloxt

Your design is nice, but it simply is not feasible at this late a time. Although I like the selector LED's, I think they are bells and whistles, which may go against the grain.

 Cantonese has similar grammatical rules as Mandarin (common Chinese) but has totally different words so is not a dialect in the sense of an accent, but is its own language. As for learning languages, if you already know English what's the point? I'd only learn a language if I had to or if I thought it sounded nice. Me personally, I can't stand the most common Mandarin accent, I like the Mandarin accent Taiwanese people have (not to be confused with the language Taiwanese) which is more musical imo. Maybe that's why I hear there's so many popular Taiwanese popstars 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I don't know, I only listen to 70's and 80's.


----------



## K3cT

No more re-designs please. I just want to get it on my hand and actually listen to it as I'm pretty tired with this waiting game already.


----------



## Crikey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cantonese has similar grammatical rules as Mandarin (common Chinese) but has totally different words so is not a dialect in the sense of an accent, but is its own language._

 

I'd actually like to point out that while written cantonese has the same grammar as mandarin. A mandarin speaking person would not be able to understand colloquial cantonese right of the bat if a cantonese person wrote or spoke colloqiual cantonese in mandarin (btw it wouldn't translate as nicely as you would think). The grammar in the grand scheme of things is similar in colloquial cantonese to mandarin, but there are differences that already make it distinct from mandarin. 

 But I would agree, cantonese (or hokkien/hakka/shanghainese etc.) are more like related languages when compared to (english) dialects/accents.


----------



## nauxolo

I vaguely remember someone posting what the different HDAMs sound like, but does anyone know the sonic characteristics of any of the OPA-MOON/earth/sun , especially compared to each other/


----------



## D.C.

peepee thanks for the work you have put in designing your version of the Compass but i think i am speaking for most of us here that enough is enough. I think the Compass that will come soon looks sexy no need for any changes. Please dont take it the wrong way.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peepee-king* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright before I go off to work I'm going to have one last and most likely futile attempt to convince Kingwa to change the design... BRING ON THE FLAMES PEOPLE! ;p






 Enjoy!_

 

Very cool design. 

 But as it is, the 30 available for international are sold out, Kingwa already preparing the next shipment and they won't go out til end of March.

 In the end, the design of the faceplate has absolutely zero impact when you are using it. When I got the Compass running and writing this post, I am not looking at the Compass. 

 In fact there are only two times I look at it, to turn it on, then to turn it off, which even then, its barely a glance.

 So while its great you spent all the time and well, I'm still perplexed why the faceplate design was such an issue. I barely ever look at the Compass. I know by feel and memory location where the volume, and headphone jack is.

 I hope I don't offend anyone when I say, please don't try to convince Kingwa to change design, it really really doesn't matter or make any difference. Let Kingwa start making a profit and let people buy the product!


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crikey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd actually like to point out that while written cantonese has the same grammar as mandarin. A mandarin speaking person would not be able to understand colloquial cantonese right of the bat if a cantonese person wrote or spoke colloqiual cantonese in mandarin (btw it wouldn't translate as nicely as you would think). The grammar in the grand scheme of things is similar in colloquial cantonese to mandarin, but there are differences that already make it distinct from mandarin. 

 But I would agree, cantonese (or hokkien/hakka/shanghainese etc.) are more like related languages when compared to (english) dialects/accents._

 

My g/f speaks mandarin and Cantonese fluently. Mandarin is her native language, but when I asked months ago how hard it was to learn Cantonese, she said very easy, since the grammar was the same. No problem at all for her, no formal classes needed, she said it's wrong to say it's a separate language. Calling it a dialect is correct.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Really like that design Peepee! You've really got me wanting a Compass again now!


----------



## chum_2000_uk

when are we likely to see Peete's second epic instalment btw?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In fact there are only two times I look at it, to turn it on, then to turn it off, which even then, its barely a glance.

 So while its great you spent all the time and well, I'm still perplexed why the faceplate design was such an issue. I barely ever look at the Compass. I know by feel and memory location where the volume, and headphone jack is.

 I hope I don't offend anyone when I say, please don't try to convince Kingwa to change design, it really really doesn't matter or make any difference. Let Kingwa start making a profit and let people buy the product!_

 

Yes, we've heard this from you many times before. But realize that that is your opinion, and unless someone else says otherwise you should assume that it is only you that feels that way about it. Maybe others care (I'm relatively indifferent but I don't mind a nicer looking design) and I think Kingwa certainly cared because a good exterior helps sell whatever is on the inside, and Kingwa wants to sell a lot of these internationally.

 At this point I think we should all probably consider the matter of front and rear design closed, I'm sorry if any of you who are interested in that now may have missed out. Any changes now would likely cause delays whereas I deliberately made sure Kingwa could have whatever design we created before his originally planned meeting with the chassis manufacturer.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_when are we likely to see Peete's second epic instalment btw?_

 

It tends to be a good idea to read before spamming questions...

 30 are sold out.

 Final version will go out end of March which is why some Head-Fiers including myself are asking Peepee to not argue or implore Kingwa to make changes, it's already been decided and Kingwa has already spoken with his source for the decided design.

 Your post indicates to me, you have no bothered to check Audio-gd's website for the official news or read this page to know that the design for Compass was decided 20 pages ago...

 Yeah I sound like a jerk here, but honestly...


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At this point I think we should all probably consider the matter of front and rear design closed, I'm sorry if any of you who are interested in that now may have missed out. Any changes now would likely cause delays whereas I deliberately made sure Kingwa could have whatever design we created before his originally planned meeting with the chassis manufacturer._

 

Well, to throw a spanner in the works after the next 300 are sold, it could be possible for another revision


----------



## csroc

Haha well that is true, but I'm not sure why Kingwa would really want to have every production run of the Compass being a different design.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, to throw a spanner in the works after the next 300 are sold, it could be possible for another revision 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well I sure hope he sells a lot of compasses 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ------------

 My C2C will ship on Thursday


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 My C2C will ship on Thursday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

Congratz and yes I am slightly jealous, but plenty of hugs and emotional attachment to my Compass is helping right now.

 Will you be upgrading your DAC to one with CAST also? Did you get CAST input for the C2C? Looking at your sig, I hope you got yourself a DAC or proper SA-CD with good D/As to make full use of your C2C! Remember C2C will only be as good as your source!


----------



## insyte

I decided not to get cast anymore as it will take an additional 20 days before it ships, so I got it stock. I will be pairing it with a stello DA100 which I think is a decent source. It's funny how i was able to get the Stello, in our local forums called wiredstate.com, we were talking about DACs in general in this thread. Around 9 posts down, posts about Audio-GD dacs started, and one of our members decided he wanted to get a DAC3SE, and he suddenly put his stello up for sale 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I immediately grabbed it because he sold it at a very affordable price. Even much lower than what it gets when it is put up for sale here in head-fi. I won't be upgrading anything else this year, as the DA100 + C2C really left a big hole in my wallet and credit card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The main reason I didn't get cast anymore aside from the long wait is that, I think it will be easier for me to resell the C2C locally with those inputs when the time comes that I will have enough money to purchase these : Kingwa's USB --> CAST converter + Reference 1 + Kingwa's CAST balanced amp + balanced cables for my HD650. [a few years from now, Id have to save hard ]

 Btw, I was originally planning on getting a Compass, but the stello deal happened, though I am still thinking of ordering a compass, when i start working in the hospital again around June. I think I will also need a desktop setup in the dorm. If I decide to do that, I'll make sure to order before the promo price ends 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope I made the right decision


----------



## WC Annihilus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
when are we likely to see Peete's second epic instalment btw?

 

It tends to be a good idea to read before spamming questions...

 30 are sold out.

 Final version will go out end of March which is why some Head-Fiers including myself are asking Peepee to not argue or implore Kingwa to make changes, it's already been decided and Kingwa has already spoken with his source for the decided design.

 Your post indicates to me, you have no bothered to check Audio-gd's website for the official news or read this page to know that the design for Compass was decided 20 pages ago...

 Yeah I sound like a jerk here, but honestly..._

 

I think he meant the third part of Peete's Compass review mate. And the answer to that is simply whenever Peete finishes it. All in due time


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hope I made the right decision 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think not going with CAST input is the right decision. It's far more limited than RCA and XLR.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think not going with CAST input is the right decision. It's far more limited than RCA and XLR._

 

Actually the XLR input works very well as an RCA input ( like the Lavry DA11 is doing), so it is not as inflexible as you might think. However... if you are hooking up a source with a XLR and one with RCA... or even if you are hooking up 2 RCA sources (using an XLR/RCA adapter) then you really would be stuck with a CAST input being useless to you.
 However, if you have one source now that uses XLR or RCA and plan on getting a CAST output DAC in the future, then getting a C2C with a CAST input is a good idea.


----------



## Toe Tag

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you missed the blazingly obvious and clearly stated, THIS IS A HEADPHONE forum. Not only that this is a HEADPHONE amp forum.

 No I do not think it needs to be changed to fit your needs for a pre-amp for your speaker system. It was designed to be initially as a project to be another option other than then Zero. It was designed to be a HEADPHONE DAC/AMP, not a pre-amp.

 Kingwa surpassed all my expectations. This is a forum for Headphone Amps not preamps for your speaker system. So no, I don't think Kingwa needs to make this into a preamp, if you want to modify your own Compass to do so, go ahead. 

 I think it should remain a DAC/AMP dedicated for headphones, since it was designed to be so._

 

I can't believe you came here to derail this thread to spread rumors. Incredible. Nowhere in the PDF does it say that its "not a pre-amp." Stop spreading your rumors.

 It tends to be a good idea to read before spamming questions...

 /sign another name to add to the ignore list. 

 Oh, actually the above are all quotes from mdb2884! If you need to beat people up dick4, why don't you get a life, and a job as rent-a-cop or mall security guard or something. A lot of us are fed up with your arrogant posts. 

 Guess what mdb2884, you were wrong, the compass in fact acts as a preamp, despite your childish post that tried to derail that. 

 The whole forum is unpleasant with pricks like mdb2884 trolling around. What happens next is a bunch of his gang here start glad handing each other and bury the latest in his series of abusive posts. The whole circle-jerk clique drives away new people and new ideas. Case in point above. 

 Anyway I'm out of here, I got my Compass and my HD650 thanks to head-fi, I'll check back in a year and see if you've managed to get rid of the ********. Good luck.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually the XLR input works very well as an RCA input ( like the Lavry DA11 is doing), so it is not as inflexible as you might think._

 

I was saying that a CAST input is inflexible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toe Tag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_/sign another name to add to the ignore list._

 

There's also the report post button too: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if the posts become abusive or crap the thread.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think not going with CAST input is the right decision. It's far more limited than RCA and XLR._

 

Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This will give me leeway if ever I buy a balanced dac, I can still use the C2C, until a real balanced amp comes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_However, if you have one source now that uses XLR or RCA and plan on getting a CAST output DAC in the future, then getting a C2C with a CAST input is a good idea._

 

A DAC with CAST is possible for me in the future, and I'll probably get another amp with CAST at that time (Im sure Kingwa would have released a newer amp)


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa's USB --> CAST converter_

 

Could you elaborate on this a little. It's got me intrigued, but frankly, also worried.


----------



## csroc

I think perhaps the title of the thread needs to be renamed to instruct newcomers to read the first post before doing anything else.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you elaborate on this a little. It's got me intrigued, but frankly, also worried._

 

I might be wrong, but I think he meant to say the product Kingwa is still working on.. the USB/Coaxial/optial input to coaxial output converter..

 picture of which kingwa posted earlier in the ZERO thread..


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I might be wrong, but I think he meant to say the product Kingwa is still working on.. the USB/Coaxial/optial input to coaxial output converter..

 picture of which kingwa posted earlier in the ZERO thread..





_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you elaborate on this a little. It's got me intrigued, but frankly, also worried._

 

Yup its the USB/Coaxial/optial input to coaxial output converter.. my bad on the CAST but who knows he might make a CAST output with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I asked Kingwa before what product he would recommend to connect the reference 1 to a PC. He answered by saying he's already designing one and already has a pcb layout


----------



## D.C.

Curra i know its a bit late but congrats on becoming Headphoneus Supremus you deserve it man. 
 mbd you are next in line to become a Headphoneus Supremus a couple more arguments and you are there mate.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup its the USB/Coaxial/optial input to coaxial output converter.. my bad on the CAST but who knows he might make a CAST output with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I asked Kingwa before what product he would recommend to connect the reference 1 to a PC. He answered by saying he's already designing one and already has a pcb layout 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, that's kinda exactly what got me worried: USB-->Reference One.

 I shouldn't open this can of worms to widely, there's a lot of fondness around here for the convenience of using USB output. Let me just advise you, when you have the Ref One, to compare what you get from USB to what you're able to get from the coax digital out of just a simple DVD player.

 In fact, that's a comparison I would recommend for anyone here that's getting the Compass (or already have the Compass) as well.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup its the USB/Coaxial/optial input to coaxial output converter.. my bad on the CAST but who knows he might make a CAST output with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I asked Kingwa before what product he would recommend to connect the reference 1 to a PC. He answered by saying he's already designing one and already has a pcb layout 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's good to know. My only worry is, most USB devices can only handle 16/48 audio, and quite a bit of my audio is 24/96. I'm thinking I'll have another expensive outlay I'll have to consider, such as a Firewire audio device.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I shouldn't open this can of worms to widely, there's a lot of fondness around here for the convenience of using USB output. Let me just advise you, when you have the Ref One, to compare what you get from USB to what you're able to get from the coax digital out of just a simple DVD player.

 In fact, that's a comparison I would recommend for anyone here that's getting the Compass (or already have the Compass) as well._

 

I second Drosera on this one, in my personal experience, the difference is quite significant in terms of clarity and dynamics, to put it simply its a different experience listening Compass through USB - PC and through a decent CD/DVD player coaxed..


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I second Drosera on this one, in my personal experience, the difference is quite significant in terms of clarity and dynamics, to put it simply its a different experience listening Compass through USB - PC and through a decent CD/DVD player coaxed.._

 

Ah ok, I guess I'll try this too, though I only have an ordinary dvd player with optical audio out


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It tends to be a good idea to read before spamming questions...

 30 are sold out.

 Final version will go out end of March which is why some Head-Fiers including myself are asking Peepee to not argue or implore Kingwa to make changes, it's already been decided and Kingwa has already spoken with his source for the decided design.

 Your post indicates to me, you have no bothered to check Audio-gd's website for the official news or read this page to know that the design for Compass was decided 20 pages ago...

 Yeah I sound like a jerk here, but honestly..._

 

Tends to be a good idea to read before giving a response. I asked when are we likely to be seeing Peete's second part of the review.... assuming I haven't missed it.

 I always check the front page before anything else to see if curra has posted anything new of interest. I'm not being funny here mbd, but not all of us have time to read through every single post this thread has like you clearly do. But before being "a jerk" you could at least read my question properly before flaming me with a response like that.... but honestly....


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah ok, I guess I'll try this too, though I only have an ordinary dvd player with optical audio out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Dont forget to share your impressions with us..


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dont forget to share your impressions with us..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh yes I will, with lots of pics too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll probably pick up the stello once I get the C2C


----------



## scootermafia

What I want to see is Compass vs. Moodlab DAC and Audio-Gd Reference Three (when it's out) vs. MHDT Havana (the DAC I am currently lusting after, but cannot afford)


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I want to see is Compass vs. Moodlab DAC and Audio-Gd Reference Three (when it's out) vs. MHDT Havana (the DAC I am currently lusting after, but cannot afford)_

 

I think the first one we will see is the Compass DAC vs Reference 1 vs Northstar vs whatever DAC Currawong has


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah ok, I guess I'll try this too, though I only have an ordinary dvd player with optical audio out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm just sounding a warning here. The limitations of computer sourced audio are all too frequently ignored on this forum. And certainly when you're moving into the elevated territory that the Reference One offers, the limitations may get very apparent. (To me the limitations are already very clear with the relatively modest DAC of the Compass.) 

 Other people may have different experiences, I'm also just 'collecting data'.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the first one we will see is the Compass DAC vs Reference 1 vs Northstar vs whatever DAC Currawong has 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think when we are looking at comparisons between the DACs you have mentioned, we must remember that Compass is only an entry level DAC which can be said is equal to DAC100 in Audio GD's lineup.. so even for the sake of comparing we do compare say Compass with Reference One or Northstar for that matter, I am sure there will be a huge difference, and even 30-40% which might not seem much if we compare the price of Compass and Northstar or Reference One, it surely can be considered a big difference keeping the law of diminishing returns in mind.. again all this IMHO..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the first one we will see is the Compass DAC vs Reference 1 vs Northstar vs whatever DAC Currawong has 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've already done the Compass vs. the Benchmark DAC 1. The jump from there to the Northstar isn't huge.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think when we are looking at comparisons between the DACs you have mentioned, we must remember that Compass is only an entry level DAC which can be said is equal to DAC100 in Audio GD's lineup.. so even for the sake of comparing we do compare say Compass with Reference One or Northstar for that matter, I am sure there will be a huge difference, and even 30-40% which might not seem much if we compare the price of Compass and Northstar or Reference One, it surely can be considered a big difference keeping the law of diminishing returns in mind.. again all this IMHO.._

 

Well, I think it should still be compared regardless of the price difference, mainly because those new to audio-gd products are going to ask how close can the compass dac perform when compared to the reference 1. Though we all can guess the answer to that, and the gap will be a little bit more especially if the Reference 1 outdacs the nakamichi or northstar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm just sounding a warning here. The limitations of computer sourced audio are all too frequently ignored on this forum. And certainly when you're moving into the elevated territory that the Reference One offers, the limitations may get very apparent. (To me the limitations are already very clear with the relatively modest DAC of the Compass.) 

 Other people may have different experiences, I'm also just 'collecting data'._

 

 I never really considered this before as I figured most of my listening would be computer based. And with the money I just put in for the DA100 and C2C, I would really like to able to push these gears to their maximum potential. I know this is kinda off topic but i think a lot of future compass buyers would be like me, someone whose audio sources mainly come from DAPs and a desktop PC full of lossless files, with a spare dvd player lying around the house. If using CD --> optical/coax will improve my listening experience using DA100 --> C2C, at this point should I buy an entry level cd transport to replace my generic DVD player? Anyway Im going to google this one out, but feel free to give me advice


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I think it should still be compared regardless of the price difference, mainly because those new to audio-gd products are going to ask how close can the compass dac perform when compared to the reference 1. Though we all can guess the answer to that, and the gap will be a little bit more especially if the Reference 1 outdacs the nakamichi or northstar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

By virtue of the Nakamichi only being 16/48 and designed only really for use with its matching CD player, the Ref 1 already exceeds it, with HDCP support, jitter prevention and 8x PCM1704UK. I wont be able to compare the Ref 1 to the Nakamichi, as that has long gone. However, many people are familiar with the Northstar and Benchmark, so it will be possible to make more useful comparisons anyway.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By virtue of the Nakamichi only being 16/48 and designed only really for use with its matching CD player, the Ref 1 already exceeds it, with HDCP support, jitter prevention and 8x PCM1704UK. I wont be able to compare the Ref 1 to the Nakamichi, as that has long gone. However, many people are familiar with the Northstar and Benchmark, so it will be possible to make more useful comparisons anyway._

 

Wow I didn't really realize until now, that at least specs/design/component wise that the Reference 1 is already superior to the Nakamichi (I thought they were at least equal). The only question now is if it will sound as good as its supposed to do, when compared to the other dacs


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I think it should still be compared regardless of the price difference, mainly because those new to audio-gd products are going to ask how close can the compass dac perform when compared to the reference 1. Though we all can guess the answer to that, and the gap will be a little bit more especially if the Reference 1 outdacs the nakamichi or northstar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You are correct, comparisons are always interesting, specially when you are pitting something like an entry level Compass (DAC section) with Reference One DAC, but the person who takes up this comparison must have a gear that can reveal the best out of Reference One as well as Compass, to say the difference between the two, the latter being much easier.

 Also, IMHO a person who still wants to find out the difference between Compass and Reference One, after having read and understood whatever information available about both, probably is a person who wont buy either and most probably not just new to Audio GD products but very new to audio itself.

 On the other hand as we see throughout this thread, although it is a Compass thread, its kind of opened up our gates of imagination, which to me only speaks volume about Compass.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I second Drosera on this one, in my personal experience, the difference is quite significant in terms of clarity and dynamics, to put it simply its a different experience listening Compass through USB - PC and through a decent CD/DVD player coaxed.._

 

I think the main hurdles facing computer-as-source is imperfect software and noisy psu. Some cd-player use a memory card to buffer information and avoid many of the evils that plague CD playback. With the falling cost in memory cards, I think we'll see cd-players that store music before we see computers that have overcome software problems and jitter associated with computers.


----------



## tinseljim

Drosera - why do you think computer playback is limited? I don't see it at all! If you mean USB from a noisy PC then maybe yes but the optical out on my MacBook will exceed transports costing thousands more. Low to zero jitter as well if you rip CDs with lossless/uncompressed codecs. The 6moons review is with a USB so it definitely can be done.

 Also given that downloads of HiRez music will become more and more popular (cf. Lynn, HRx, etc.), computer-as-source is a real audiophile solution. 
 Check out:
Computer Audiophile | High-End Audiophile Music Servers

 and 

 here the 6moons review of a MacBook paired with what might just be the ULTIMATE DAC/HeadAmp/PreAmp - the Isabella (I believe Krmanthis has one):
6moons audio reviews: Red*Wine Audio Isabella

 In case you don't read the whole review (btw it's really worth reading) here is the clincher paragraph:

 "...The 'got interesting' paragraph [above] reads too cut 'n' dry not to warrant highlighting what it means: an $1,100 MacBook and quality USB cable outperformed a Philips CDM-PRO2-fitted machine with ultra-quality digital cable as data extractor. Gone are the days when using a computer implied automatic inferiority to quality digital hifi components. Nowadays the PC -- or Mac in this case -- can come out ahead. Talking cash, a digital transport running the Philips Pro mechanism should set you back at least twice what a suitable laptop-as-server will. Yet dedicated transports with the Pro drive can demand up to $20,000. The lowly computer platform's financial victory can be a lot sweeter still. Now add the savings of a USB vs. top S/PDIF cable. More sugar. Who's your daddy now? If you're new to the hifi game and don't already own a quality CD player, I see no justification or rationale for buying one. Unless you're completely immune to the music-server conveniences that is. Did I already mention that Apple's tiny remote really makes interacting with a laptop on the shelf usually occupied by a CD player exceedingly graceful for us old-fashioned 2-channel dinosaurs?"

 I hope you might re-think computer audio!


----------



## tinseljim

sorry double post


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope you might re-think computer audio!_

 

LOL, nope. My point was not that computer audio is necessarily bad, it was that the computer can all too easily become a very weak link in the chain when you start upgrading your gear downstream. A computer that will work well as a media server is still the exception rather than the rule.

 My basic point was simply to keep in mind that there are an awful lot of things in your computer that stand in the way of getting the information on your harddisk in an undistorted way to your DAC. 

 I'll read those links later. Interesting stuff no doubt. (Although I don't want to derail this thread to much from its original content.) 

 In response to haloxt: I'm using foobar with otachan ASIO and my computer has a Seasonic S12 PSU. So why is my USB output still problematic? 
 You're right, cd player with memory buffers are one way around the optical disc problem. The reclocking DSP-1 module in Audio-gd's Reference may offer an even more elegant solution to optical disc read-jitter.


----------



## haloxt

I said software is still a problem (at least for PC's, don't know about Mac since OS X has innate low-latency driver which may be very good).

 Same with your PSU, its not standalone and quiet like some cd-players.


----------



## 8140david

I am in contact with Kingwa to buy some of his products.
 (I am not yet fully decided about which ones.)

 I asked Kingwa about shipping and taxes, and he answered this:
 "If ship by EMS, EMS can easy to avoid you pay tax, but it is not always can let you avoid pay tax, some time even ship by EMS but still need pay tax. And EMS is has a little costly than DHL and slow, around 5-10 days arrive."

 Concerning taxes, does it mean:
 With EMS, sometimes the customer does not pay taxes, but sometimes he has to pay them. But with DHL, the customer ALWAYS pays taxes.
 (If so, it could be good to try EMS.)

 Otherwise, I understand EMS is a bit slow (5-10 days).
 Question: it is safe? (Or is it as safe as DHL?)
 Can we say that both EMS and DHL are quite good, but DHL is quicker?

 I have asked these questions to Kingwa, but I'd be happy *if some of you have some experiences to share when buying from China and using EMS, DHL, or something else*, concerning the questions above.


----------



## mbd2884

Drosera finally made decision on new headphones, next month. Think it's the best balanced headphone I can afford.

 HD600 with DIY recable (Starquad/ Senn Connectors, Shrinkwrap and Furutech FP-704 from Moon Audio). I'll need to upgrade my soldering iron for sure, crappy $10 from Radioshack. Read soldering the Senn connectors has to be quick. 

 I'm leaning towards Van Damme Classic Starquad, silver plated shielded cable: http://www.vdctrading.com/products.a...SectionID=1#p6 Seems cheap, for 10 ft, I'm hoping it will be about 25-30 with shipping. I emailed them for a quote. 

 Read about some Evolution XPC OFC Star Quad, but can't seem to find a dealer that sells in US, all the sites are in UK.

 I decided I don't want to lose the soundstage on the AD900 and it still has more bass than the AD700, so it's probably still the best can from Audio Technica for what I like.

 And to others, why bash USB output from my laptop? I hear no distortions, jitter or whatever you are discussing. If I can't hear the flaw, I sure as hell don't give a crap. I bought all this stuff to listen to music, not to have bragging rights with measurements, data and statistics.

 Also it seems very obvious to me, that most of us do not know what we are talking about. If you are going to argue about the miniscule perfections, then read up on USB and how it transfers data. I personally don't care, but don't tell me that my power source on my computer is going to affect the sound through a USB cable without proof. Also I especially couldn't care less about anything that pertains to Steve Jobs in his mission to dumb down America.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have asked these questions to Kingwa, but I'd be happy *if some of you have some experiences to share when buying from China and using EMS, DHL, or something else*, concerning the questions above._

 

I have tried DHL. DHL has been bloody fast for the two packages I've used them for, but their web tracking system is a bit dodgy. I have tried EMS. EMS is not so fast, but I've never had an issue from the 4 packages I've had, and their tracking system isn't too bad either.

 When I asked Kingwa about EMS cost, it was cheaper than DHL by about 10 USD (which is quite a lot in Australia coz of our stupid exchange rate).

 I use Hong Kong Post registered a lot too, that arrives pretty much all the time within 7 days but only because the Australia-Hong Kong route has a lot of flights.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The piercing technology can't arrange the give.


----------



## decayed.cell

I was wondering if anyone would have an idea of how the amp section would compare to say a Darkvoice Figaro or a Creek OBH 11?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Otherwise, I understand EMS is a bit slow (5-10 days).
 Question: it is safe? (Or is it as safe as DHL?)
 Can we say that both EMS and DHL are quite good, but DHL is quicker?

 I have asked these questions to Kingwa, but I'd be happy *if some of you have some experiences to share when buying from China and using EMS, DHL, or something else*, concerning the questions above._

 

EMS is the same as a trackable courier. I've had zero problems using it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know the strength/weakness of the head amp in this Compass? Is the compass simnilar to the Zero where the DAC was the major reason why you bought it? I know that the Compass has discrete pathway in the head amp part, as well as better parts than the zero ... so is it able to drive headphones fully? In other words, is it "good enough" for the average mid-fi person?_

 

What do you mean by "drive headphones fully"? I'm guessing you probably aren't so sure yourself. The Zero could drive any headphones. The Compass can also drive any headphones. What you get with a better headphone amp is a better soundstage and more detail, as a better amp can handle the rapidly changing voltages better.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering if anyone would have an idea of how the amp section would compare to say a Darkvoice Figaro or a Creek OBH 11?_

 

Until someone compares them directly, I don't hold much hope of anyone being able to answer. There are only 18 Compasses outside of China. Would be interesting to find out though.


----------



## nauxolo

thanks currawong, you're right that i dont' know much about the benefits of headphone amps, but now i do ! (a little bit).


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know the strength/weakness of the head amp in this Compass? Is the compass simnilar to the Zero where the DAC was the major reason why you bought it? I know that the Compass has discrete pathway in the head amp part, as well as better parts than the zero ... so is it able to drive headphones fully? In other words, is it "good enough" for the average mid-fi person?_

 

The amp is actually quite nice. the Zero amp was a bit weak...but no one could say the Compass amp is weak! It has gobs of power... I never came close to its limits with my K701. One the other hand, I have driven a couple amps to hard clipping with the k701 and the Zero would get medium loud and harsh sounding as it ran out of gas. Are there better amps... sure... the C2C looks mighty nice and it was mentioned in one of the reviews in comparison with the Compass... but make no mistake... the Compass amp is a REAL amp... not an under-powered add on.


----------



## punk_guy182

For canadians, it is definetely better to stick with EMS to avoid heavy taxes. In fact I have never paid any and all my packages that came from Shenzhen China arrived within a week (less than 7 days) and I live in Montreal Canada.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Concerning taxes, does it mean:
 With EMS, sometimes the customer does not pay taxes, but sometimes he has to pay them. But with DHL, the customer ALWAYS pays taxes.
 (If so, it could be good to try EMS.)_

 

I think one of the vital parts you left out here is some information on where you live. Do you pay a kind of VAT there? That will mainly determine whether you have to pay taxes on shipments from China.

 Yes, my experience here in The Netherlands is that things on the whole have a reasonable chance of slipping through untaxed with EMS or similar ordinary postal service. There's no chance at all of that when using UPS or DHL.
 However, when it comes to big pieces of electronics equipment, chances of it going through untaxed with EMS become really slim as well. Such things are often picked out, simply because they look expensive. I really can't imagine something like the Reference One slipping through untaxed.

 Bottom line, if they want to tax you, they probably will.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Drosera finally made decision on new headphones, next month. Think it's the best balanced headphone I can afford._

 

Good choice I think, although I haven't heard them myself yet, but they are on the 'to-buy' list. But this means you've basically half decided on an amp too, I guess. (Going balanced.)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And to others, why bash USB output from my laptop? I hear no distortions, jitter or whatever you are discussing. If I can't hear the flaw, I sure as hell don't give a crap. I bought all this stuff to listen to music, not to have bragging rights with measurements, data and statistics.

 Also it seems very obvious to me, that most of us do not know what we are talking about. If you are going to argue about the miniscule perfections, then read up on USB and how it transfers data. I personally don't care, but don't tell me that my power source on my computer is going to affect the sound through a USB cable without proof._

 

Sorry, but this basically sounds like: "Don't tell me things I don't want to hear!" Oh well, no one's asking you to listen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And if you're happy with what you're getting from USB, that's fine. Good for you.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 YMMV and all that.


----------



## mrchyles

I think the idea is "don't tell me things I can't hear" and not so much "don't tell me things I don't want to hear"...


----------



## 8140david

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think one of the vital parts you left out here is some information on where you live. Do you pay a kind of VAT there? That will mainly determine whether you have to pay taxes on shipments from China.

 Yes, my experience here in The Netherlands is that things on the whole have a reasonable chance of slipping through untaxed with EMS or similar ordinary postal service. There's no chance at all of that when using UPS or DHL.
 However, when it comes to big pieces of electronics equipment, chances of it going through untaxed with EMS become really slim as well. Such things are often picked out, simply because they look expensive. I really can't imagine something like the Reference One slipping through untaxed.

 Bottom line, if they want to tax you, they probably will._

 

Thanks all for your answers!

 I live in France, where TVA is 19,6%.

 Since I will order a few things, that will makes either a very big box or several ones.
 Moreover, the cost of shipping will not be small.
 So they will most probably tax TVA plus the specific "import tax" for this kind of equipment on the whole: declared value + shipping cost.
 I'll try to learn more about the specific situation in France.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll try to learn more about the specific situation in France._

 

Good idea. Ask around on a French Hifi-forum, you will probably get the most relevant answers there.
 And for the rest, my experience is: sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you aren't.


----------



## insyte

Just noticed this new product in the Audio-GD page - DAC-3 DV.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just noticed this new product in the Audio-GD page - DAC-3 DV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah it was up a few hours ago. That's not the Reference 3 is it?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah it was up a few hours ago. That's not the Reference 3 is it?_

 

No, it's the updated DAC-3SE. The Reference Three will be back on the site soon too, I believe.


----------



## Hottuna_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I asked Kingwa about EMS cost, it was cheaper than DHL by about 10 USD (which is quite a lot in Australia coz of our stupid exchange rate)._

 

Hmmm, thats interesting.
 Few months back i bought an amp off ebay from HK.
 It was posted EMS on Wednesday and delivered to me on Saturday.
 Thats plenty fast enough for me and i was quite surprised at the weekend delivery. Didn't think Auspost did that.
 And it being cheaper, I reckon its a good deal.
 I work weekdays and i am not sure if DHL delivers on weekends. 
 If i miss delivery of an EMS i can pick it up easily at my local post which opens Saturdays.

 Should put in my Compass order soon....


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good choice I think, although I haven't heard them myself yet, but they are on the 'to-buy' list. But this means you've basically half decided on an amp too, I guess. (Going balanced.)_

 

Oh no, I meant the sound, music being balanced.

 But as to the USB, I haven't read any proofs but just random opinions. One marketing splurge I read talks about the high frequency radiation from motherboard and so on, that argument is dumb, would imply solid state amps, and DACs are inherently flawed then, with their use of PCBs. Of course most audio people use shielded cables, power source shielded and the aluminum casing on the Compass helps also. Also argument used to justify their 3,000 euros DAC, well it's marketing. Their next argument is to use USB to spdif converter to minimize jitter, oh wait, the Compass already does this. Notice I haven't read anything that suggests the laptop's power source will distort the sound also. As to the argument about software drivers, that's why people use ASIO or WASABI, to get rid of latency in real time. Was developed for recording, never mind something as simple as just playing music. As for jitter, would seem to me, a lot of what so called audio experts complain about can be directed back to the recording itself, such as Muse. All I have heard in this thread so far about USB has been just opinions (including myself).

 If someone has issues with computer audio, then fine, don't use it. Weird considering computers were used to master the CDs you would be listening to.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh no, I meant the sound, music being balanced._

 

Ah, good choice on the HD600 regardless. I think they have more universal appeal than the K501 with regard to musical genres.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But as to the USB, I haven't read any proofs but just random opinions. One marketing splurge I read talks about the high frequency radiation from motherboard and so on, that arguement is dumb, would imply solid state amps, and DACs are inherently flawed then, with their use of PCBs. Of course most audio people use shielded cables, power source shielded and the aluminum casing on the Compass helps also. Also arguement used to justify their 3,000 euros DAC, well it's marketing. Their next arguement is to use USB to spdif converter to minimize jitter, oh wait, the Compass already does this. Notice I haven't read anything that suggests the laptop's power source will distort the sound also. As to the arguement about software drivers, that's why people use ASIO or WASABI, to get rid of latency in real time. Was developed for recording, never mind something as simple as just playing music. As for jitter, would seem to me, a lot of what so called audio experts complain about can be directed back to the recording itself, such as Muse. All I have heard in this thread so far about USB has been just opinions (including myself)._

 

Okay, I don't really want to pursue this much further, none of us has the data and that leads to endless back and forths.

 Everything you've heard up to now are opinions AND impressions. We do have too many of the former and too few of the latter. That's basically what I wanted to encourage, more experimentation leading to more impressions. Of course you haven't heard that anything's amiss when you haven't even heard the alternative.

 If you really think that a well-designed amp/DAC like the Compass with its meticulously calibrated and dedicated PS section is a comparable environment in EMI terms to an ordinary computer with a subpar PSU and the general mayhem that goes on in the CPU/chipset... Well, I can't help you there.

 As to USB to S/PDIF conversion (shouldn't that be I2S in the case of the Compass?): If reclocking/resynchronisation is involved I can see how that would reduce jitter, what I can't see how this might get rid of random noise that might have been introduced into the signal before conversion.

 All I have at the moment regarding this issue are my own impressions and those of a few others. And opinions from some people who know a lot more about both computers and digital audio than I do.

 But you want proof. The question is, do you actually need proof of a difference before you can hear a difference? If that's the case, you will have an interesting and frustrating time in HiFi-land. If we don't have the measurements, maybe we haven't discovered what to measure for. If we don't have conclusive results, maybe there are just to many variables in the equation. Sometimes (and quite often when it comes to HiFi) impressions are all the information you've got.


----------



## mbd2884

My issue, is you and others keep mentioning random signal, don't write this without proof. It's that simple, back it up. I can't find anything that suggests random signals via USB. Everything else, yeah its just opinions so far, so won't debate the issue. But random signals, show it to me. It's not just about hearing it, if you are going to write it as an argument, then provide the data to back it up.

 But yes, I do think my computer is far more delicate than the Compass. If it has these HFR issues, then my laptop would not function correctly. The CPU is far more sensitive than the Compass is, and the power source for computers are subpar? Hmmm, I guess a PSU costing more than the Compass itself is subpar (desktop). That blows. For laptop its moot, this thing so efficient on power I can play Warhammer 40K for over an hour straight on battery.


----------



## haloxt

When you heard audible differences between ASIO builds, you were hearing the flaw of software.

  Quote:


 Adaptive: in this mode the clock comes from a separate clock generator (usually implemented as a PLL referenced by a crystal oscillator) that can have its frequency adjusted in small increments over a wide range. A control circuit (either hardware or firmware running on an embedded processor) measures the average rate of the DATA coming over the bus and adjusts the clock to match that. Since the clock is not directly derived from a bus signal it is far less sensitive to bus jitter than synchronous mode, but what is going on on the bus still can effect it. Its still generated by a PLL that takes its control from the circuits that see the jitter on the bus. Its a lot better than synchronous mode, but still not perfect by a long shot. This is the mode that MOST USB audio devices use today. 
 

If you weren't aware, I was talking about a hypothetical ideal computer source, which I don't think would be a computer anymore nor use usb. To be more precise, a cd-player with a humongous memory card and internet access for um... updating software.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you heard audible differences between ASIO builds, you were hearing the flaw of software.



 If you weren't aware, I was talking about a hypothetical ideal computer source, which I don't think would be a computer anymore nor use usb. To be more precise, a cd-player with a humongous memory card and internet access for um... updating software._

 

So this is theoretical? Isn't the reason Compass uses the DIR9001 is to address the issue you quoted?

 Eh, well have fun debating the issue as it seems overly complicated when it's music we are talking about and computers are used to detect the most sensitive measurements for engineering, which requires it to have the best clock settings possible. Not sure why it would be so incapable of having proper clock, and I still believe in the end, if I can't hear the these flaws, don't matter.


----------



## csroc

As far as USB out is concerned, you're never likely to get a good analysis that proves it's good or bad here mbd2994. Your best bet is to test it yourself and find out how they compare, same with cables and any other unproven differences.

 Are there sources of noise in a computer? Sure there are but how are they affecting the digital signals whether they're sent by USB or Coaxial or optical before it's converted to photons? Well I suspect you'll find many varying opinions on that but far less objective data.

 Of course that same concern can (and is by some) be extended to any music mastered or processed digitally on computers. If a computer has touched the music even in digital form has it been affected by the supposed noisy environment inside of the Mac or PC being used? Does it depend on how that music is passed in and out of the computer?

 Go ask on hydrogen audio to get another side to answering this kind of question.


----------



## csroc

double post


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you weren't aware, I was talking about a hypothetical ideal computer source, which I don't think would be a computer anymore nor use usb. To be more precise, a cd-player with a humongous memory card and internet access for um... updating software._

 

Actually, what you're talking about sounds very close to a media server device. Those things exist, it's just that they're so bloody expensive. (At least, I haven't come across an affordable one that also impressed me enough to be interested.)


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My issue, is you and others keep mentioning random signal, don't write this without proof. It's that simple, back it up. I can't find anything that suggests random signals via USB. Everything else, yeah its just opinions so far, so won't debate the issue. But random signals, show it to me. It's not just about hearing it, if you are going to write it as an argument, then provide the data to back it up.

 But yes, I do think my computer is far more delicate than the Compass. If it has these HFR issues, then my laptop would not function correctly. The CPU is far more sensitive than the Compass is, and the power source for computers are subpar? Hmmm, I guess a PSU costing more than the Compass itself is subpar (desktop). That blows. For laptop its moot, this thing so efficient on power I can play Warhammer 40K for over an hour straight on battery._

 

I think the missing piece of the puzzle here is "error correction". Relatively easy to do with machine code, less so with a digital audio stream.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, what you're talking about sounds very close to a media server device. Those things exist, it's just that they're so bloody expensive. (At least, I haven't come across an affordable one that also impressed me enough to be interested.)_

 

How about using the coax out on a squeezebox to a DAC? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







 -----------

 Promotional price of DAC 3 DV, will be around ~$835 (not yet final, let's wait till Kingwa announces it officially)


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about using the coax out on a squeezebox to a DAC? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just listening to internet streaming audio, you mean? I don't know, are there already sites that stream lossless?

 I'm probably using the term 'music server' incorrectly. I basically mean a device with a build-in harddisk (but, as haloxt pointed out, non-harddisk based memory would be even better) that can serve as a dedicated source for the digital signal to the DAC or will provide DA conversion itself.

 EDIT: Something like this.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just listening to internet streaming audio, you mean? I don't know, are there already sites that stream lossless?

 I'm probably using the term 'music server' incorrectly. I basically mean a device with a build-in harddisk (but, as haloxt pointed out, non-harddisk based memory would be even better) that can serve as a dedicated source for the digital signal to the DAC or will provide DA conversion itself.

 EDIT: Something like this._

 

I think streaming internet music is streaming internet music. I use di.fm for their 192 streaming trance. But 192 streaming is nothing compared to 192 in my collection. I don't think streaming music is at a point where you can qualify it as hifi, so guess saying, wouldn't matter what you are using, doesn't sound great to start with.

 For some reason I don't think lossless is going to make the difference.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just listening to internet streaming audio, you mean? I don't know, are there already sites that stream lossless?

 I'm probably using the term 'music server' incorrectly. I basically mean a device with a build-in harddisk (but, as haloxt pointed out, non-harddisk based memory would be even better) that can serve as a dedicated source for the digital signal to the DAC or will provide DA conversion itself.

 EDIT: Something like this._

 

I actually meant using the squeezebox to stream flac files from a local server, not from internet radio. Wouldn't that be better?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually meant using the squeezebox to stream flac files from a local server, not from internet radio. Wouldn't that be better?_

 

Pffff, my most honest response would be: try it and see if it sounds better. Intuitively, USB seems to me to be a more direct path than putting the digital signal through an ethernet connection.

 There's certainly no shortage of options in getting a digital signal from your computer to your DAC.


----------



## mbd2884

Have fun whatever you do. For me, some of this stuff is overly complex, when I just want to listen to music. Simplest way to do it, is best for me.

 But yeah, seems almost alien to use ethernet for personal use music


----------



## K3cT

I hope the Compass ships soon. As a 2nd generation user, I can't wait to hear it already.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pffff, my most honest response would be: try it and see if it sounds better. Intuitively, USB seems to me to be a more direct path than putting the digital signal through an ethernet connection.

 There's certainly no shortage of options in getting a digital signal from your computer to your DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yah I know there are a lot of options out there. 

 I probably will try it first with a cd transport or dvd player to the DAC, I'll try to see if there is really a difference between that and USB 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have fun whatever you do. For me, some of this stuff is overly complex, when I just want to listen to music. Simplest way to do it, is best for me.

 But yeah, seems almost alien to use ethernet for personal use music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Definitely plan to have fun comparing, hope someone locally will lend me a squeezebox, Im quite intrigued with the technology and its application. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope the Compass ships soon. As a 2nd generation user, I can't wait to hear it already. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Im sure it will ship soon


----------



## mbd2884

Also Drosera if you are interested in the HD600 with a recable as I am. Yeah I think I'm pretty set on doing this month to two months, S2 audio can do it for a reasonable price. I might just buy the stuff, and send it over and have the job done by S2 rather me botching the job. Who knows, will make decision when it comes to that. Also Van Damme sell their cables by the metre, so its really cheap. They use a mix strands of pure OFC and silver plated pure OFC, and it's shielded crazy.


----------



## haloxt

Let's make a easy guide on getting ASIO working for the compass on the different media players. I'd like to know your opinion on the effects of different options, since I can't tell between the buffer options or options inside ASIO4ALL except for skipping from extremely low latency and buffer. I suggest raising the priority in Media Monkey and Foobar2000 because it is supposed to lower skipping. Please let me know if there are any settings in any ASIO media players that will improve sound quality that I haven't added already. Pm me if you have suggestions, corrections, or things to add, things to subtract, etc.

 All the KS, WASAPI, and ASIO I have tried sound quite similar, and all are much better than directsound. So if you are already using KS/WASAPI/ASIO and are happy with your current media player then this guide may be no use to you. What's the benefit of setting up ASIO? Why, it bypasses the evil kmixer but http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/wh...31/#post859237 .

 WARNING: If you have volume set to something like 25% on the computer, move the computer volume to 100% and lower the compass volume lower so it is not loud. This way when you switch to ASIO4ALL you won't get really loud volume because computer volume control will be disabled. Volume control inside of media players may still work for some players but it is recommended to leave it at 100% or off for better sound quality, er ok I'm not too sure about that. BUT you should do it ANYWAYS, using ASIO means some programs you can control volume, while some you cannot, therefore all software volume should be set to 100% while the compass volume is like the master volume, if you never raise the compass volume too high you will never blow your ears out.

 Step #1: Get ASIO4ALL

ASIO4ALL - Universal ASIO Driver

 Everybody will need this for ASIO with Compass. Each new program utilizing ASIO4ALL will have default settings so you must reconfigure ASIO4ALL for each individual program.

 Stolen from ASIO4ALL instruction manual:

  Quote:


 In order to achieve the best possible results with ASIO4ALL, it is recommended that your computer is
 configured accordingly:
 ● Set the power scheme to “Always On” (XP) or “High Performance” (Vista) in order to turn off
 Processor P-State switching! Advanced: Modify an existing power scheme so as to not switch CPU
 speed, because other power settings are not that critical.
 ● Turn off system sounds! While e.g. the Windows logon sound certainly will not be a problem,
 sound effects in response to button clicks, notifications 
 

Step #2: Pick a media player (only have instructions for 3 here, the others follow similar steps of Media Monkey and Foobar2000)).

 Media Monkey

http://www.mediamonkey.com/MediaMonkey_Setup.exe
http://otachan.com/out_asio(dll)_067.7z

 1. Install Media Monkey, unzip out_asio(dll)_067.7z, go to bin>SSE2 (or go to Normal folder if you don't have Intel Pentium 4 or later processor) and extract out_asio(dll).dll into Program Files>MediaMonkey>Plugins.
 2. Open Media Monkey, Tools>Options>Player>Output Plug-ins>Device: ASIO4ALL v2, Thread priority: Time Critical, check "Use Direct input monitor".
 3. Play something, check bottom right tooltray for ASIO4ALL, left click, make sure the blue play button and blue icon left of it are on "USB Audio DAC" and not another soundcard. To access options click wrench at bottom right corner, highlight "USB Audio DAC".

 For Media Monkey, you might want to change Volume Leveling, go to Tools>Options>Player>Volume Leveling set to whatever you want.
 Or disable annoying re-association of files, go to Tools>Options>General>File Types and uncheck "Re-associate File Types on startup (recommended)"

 Foobar2000

foobar2000: Download foobar2000 and optional components
http://www.foobar2000.org/files/e063...o_out_asio.zip

 1. Install, unzip foo_out_asio.zip, extract foo_out_asio.dll to Program File>Foobar2000>components.
 2. Open Foobar2000, File>Preferences>Playback>Output>ASIO Virtual Devices>Add New>select ASIO4ALL v2, click ok.
 3. Playback>Output>Output Device>select ASIO : ASIO4ALL v2.
 4. Advanced>Playback>Thread Priority (1-7): 1 for highest priority.
 5. Play something, check bottom right tooltray for ASIO4ALL, left click, make sure the blue play button and blue icon left of it are on "USB Audio DAC" and not another soundcard. To access options click wrench at bottom right corner, highlight "USB Audio DAC".

 If it says "blah.. expected 8" remove ASIO4ALL v2 from ASIO Virtual Devices and "Add New" and add ASIO4ALL v2 again.

 For Foobar2000, you might want to change replaygain, go to File>Preferences>Playback>set ReplayGain to what you want.

 Windows Media Player (not a very convenient ASIO player, but instructions included since it plays movies)

Windows Media Player 10
http://superb-west.dl.sourceforge.ne...WmpPlg-4.2.zip

 1. Install Windows Media Player (I can't walk you through here because I'm too scared to uninstall, Vista might not let me reinstall 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), unzip ASIOWmpPlg-4.2.zip, open folder Release>click install.exe
 2. Open Windows Media Player, Tools>Options>Plug-ins tab>Audio DSP>highlight ASIOWmpPlg plugin, Properties, select ASIO4ALL v2, click ok.
 3. Options>Devices tab>Speakers>Advanced>select something OTHER THAN "Speakers, USB Audio DAC" as default. Maybe this little quirk will be fixed in a future release, it is still rather new and in prototype stage.
 4. Play something, check bottom right tooltray for ASIO4ALL, left click, make sure the blue play button and blue icon left of it are on "USB Audio DAC" and not another soundcard. To access options click wrench at bottom right corner, highlight "USB Audio DAC".

 I only use for movies (makes a huge difference) since it only plays FLAC and movies for me, no mp3's, I get this when trying to play mp3's: "ASIOWmpPlg: Failed to create ASIO interface; error code 80004002."

 If you choose to use Windows Media Player, you should make a desktop shortcut to Control Panel>Sound, you will have to choose something besides Speakers USB Audio DAC with Windows Media Player, then choose Speakers USB Audio DAC when listening to stuff online (like youtube or flash stuff, WMP streaming video may not require this, depending on sampling rate). Lots of switching sometimes, but imo worth it if you watch movies on WMP. Oh, and you oftentimes have to check Tools>Plug-ins, and make sure ASIOWmpPlg plugin is CHECKED. It's buggy and unchecks all the time, I think usually when it crashes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 For ASIO options, there's also winamp and an older foobar that has Otachan's version of ASIO. Use the dll linked above in Media Monkey instructions for winamp, and for older foobar visit ASIO builds 2.0.

 Twoo good points (thanks Drosera):

  Quote:


 -Setting output in Playback to 32-bit (fixed or floating) will get rid of most "unsupported output data format" errors. [essential to get older foobar to work, you can also use "16bit fixed-point padded to 32bit", after a few hours of A/B I can't pinpoint the difference, but placebo tells me to use 16bit fixed-point padded to 32bit heh heh heh]

 -ASIO can only be used by one application at the time. If ASIO output suddenly stops working there's a good chance you'll have something like a page with youtube videos open that will keep ASIO occupied even if they have already stopped playing. 
 

Q: Why is there occasional skipping?
 A: There's nothing wrong with your compass, you just need to increase latency or buffer size in your media player.

 Q: Why did you link so many ASIO players?
 A: They all sound different (but good) in my opinion, besides, people have different player preferences.

 Q: Which one is best?
 A: I have no idea, even the link to the older foobar says its own modified ASIO driver isn't perfect.

 Q: Will ASIO/KS/WASAPI make the computer as good a source as high-end transports?
 A: Not likely for most computers (some low noise laptops are popular for their transport performance), especially since computer-as-source technology isn't as advanced as cd-transport technology. Different media players, different asio programs, different computers (computers can be a great source of noise), lack of asynchronous mode USB drivers, are all possible sources of jitter for computers. Cd-players and computers face different obstacles so they have their pros and cons.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also Drosera if you are interested in the HD600 with a recable as I am. Yeah I think I'm pretty set on doing this month to two months, S2 audio can do it for a reasonable price. I might just buy the stuff, and send it over and have the job done by S2 rather me botching the job. Who knows, will make decision when it comes to that. Also Van Damme sell their cables by the metre, so its really cheap. They use a mix strands of pure OFC and silver plated pure OFC, and it's shielded crazy._

 

Thanks for bringing this to my attention again. You're right, it does look interesting. I was wondering if they would ship to the Netherlands, but then I noticed they were based in the UK, so that shouldn't be a problem (hopefully).

 I actually wasn't planning on recabling the HD600s rightaway if I would get them. I might try out a HD650 cable for them first. But I am planning to recable some of my other phones, especially the older ones.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pffff, my most honest response would be: try it and see if it sounds better. Intuitively, USB seems to me to be a more direct path than putting the digital signal through an ethernet connection._

 

I can't imagine it would be much different either way. In fact depending on how the Squeezebox works you could consider it a more "direct" process from audio file to analog signal.

 In either case you're sending the file to the device. A USB DAC requires it be converted to a data stream of a different type and the ethernet or wired devices either read the file directly and then process & DAC it or they need software or something to support some kind of streaming audio.


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't imagine it would be much different either way. In fact depending on how the Squeezebox works you could consider it a more "direct" process from audio file to analog signal.

 In either case you're sending the file to the device. A USB DAC requires it be converted to a data stream of a different type and the ethernet or wired devices either read the file directly and then process & DAC it or they need software or something to support some kind of streaming audio._

 

The new Lynn DS series is only ethernet in I believe:

Linn - Klimax DS Digital Stream Player

 It also costs around 20,000.


----------



## 8140david

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good idea. Ask around on a French Hifi-forum, you will probably get the most relevant answers there.
 And for the rest, my experience is: sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you aren't._

 

Just to satisfy your curiosity:
 In France, when importing from outside UE, one has to pay 19,6% VAT + 2% specific import tax for amplifiers (this specific tax varies with the kind of product).
 These taxes apply to the sum: value of the product + shipping.
 The value of the product is the value declared by the seller when all goes well, but the value estimated by the customs when all goes wrong!

 I've searched (and posted) in French forums about the likelihood of not being taxed.
 Overall, my impression is similar to yours: products that cost more than x hundred euros (declared or evaluated value) will systematically be taxed, even when shipping EMS.

 Otherwise, Kingwa told me that, costwise, EMS is interesting when the total weight is less than 20 kgs. When it's more, it's less expensive to use DHL.


----------



## mbd2884

Hmm weird, I don't know this. But is the Compass Class A? I'm hoping yes.


----------



## Currawong

All Kingwa's designs are Class A as far as I know.


----------



## clasam

Hi, I was wondering if someone could bring me up to speed about the project, as of Marcy 2, 2009, so I don't have to read 222 pages.

 Thanks,

 Jon


----------



## D.C.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let's make a foolproof guide on getting ASIO working for the compass on the different media players._

 

thanx halo really appreciated


----------



## csroc

OK, seriously now I think the thread title needs to tell newbs to read the OP.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I was wondering if someone could bring me up to speed about the project, as of Marcy 2, 2009, so I don't have to read 222 pages.

 Thanks,

 Jon_

 

Read the first post of the thread.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All Kingwa's designs are Class A as far as I know._

 

That's what I thought. Nifty little Amp Compass got then!


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, seriously now I think the thread title needs to tell newbs to read the OP.



 Read the first post of the thread._

 

Okay, I read it. No harm, no foul.

 I only asked that question because I know with super long threads, things tend to change over time and the original post is not always up to date.

 Just go to any "official" thread here, AVS.com, etc...often times the original post is out of date. I don't know about you, but I don't have days to pour through vast amounts of information.

 I'll be more diligent about reading posts in the future, but you don't have to be so condescending. 

 If you weren't being condescending, then my apologies. It simply reads that way over the internet.

 Jon


----------



## mbd2884

He wasn't being condenscending. It seems whenever it's someone who is not a regular poster in thread contributes, its to ask a question that has already been answered so many times, it's tiresome.

 Currawong has been keeping important posts tagged and linked on the OP. So to reduce the number of repeated questions, maybe csroc suggestion would be a good one.


----------



## csroc

I was not intending to be rude, I apologize if it may have come across that way. Although we do get questions like yours asked a lot, there haven't been any for at least a page or two now. 

 Currawong has been keeping the first post updated diligently, so in the case of this thread it remains the best place to go for information to get your feet wet. I had suggested the thread title get changed before but it hasn't happened, which is why I brought it up again.


----------



## Currawong

I've updated the first post again. I guess now we chat about random crap for a month again.


----------



## goorackerelite

I noticed that the link to the compass page is taken down. We have to direct link to it, is Kingwa getting more orders than he can handle?


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *goorackerelite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I noticed that the link to the compass page is taken down. We have to direct link to it, is Kingwa getting more orders than he can handle?_

 

the website seems to be fine


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what I thought. Nifty little Amp Compass got then!_

 

To the people with the Compass:

 Is the amp a punchy fast SS sound or more warm sounding like the Shanling PH100 SS?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To the people with the Compass:

 Is the amp a punchy fast SS sound or more warm sounding like the Shanling PH100 SS?_

 

The amp certainly is not laid back, it can be very exciting without going over the top. It's remarkably wel balanced actually and very transparent and neutral. This comes through very clearly when switching between opamps in the DAC section, because the sound of the DAC will be the main determinant in the sound of the Compass as a whole.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The amp certainly is not laid back, it can be very exciting without going over the top. It's remarkably wel balanced actually and very transparent and neutral. This comes through very clearly when switching between opamps in the DAC section, because the sound of the DAC will be the main determinant in the sound of the Compass as a whole._

 


 That is very interestinf. Therefore, the DAC part of the Compass contributes mostly to coloration of the sound and the amp par of the Compass mostly contributes to feed the headphones with the power it needs.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is very interestinf. Therefore, the DAC part of the Compass contributes mostly to coloration of the sound and the amp par of the Compass mostly contributes to feed the headphones with the power it needs._

 

That's right. Complete transparency and simply relaying what is being fed by the source is the theoretical ideal for any amp, by the way. However, in practice things are usually a bit more complicated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Keep in mind though, the real main determining factor in the way your setup will sound, will still be your headphones.


----------



## mbd2884

Due to so many recent questions if the Compass Amp can drive a headphone... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For the Lazy who obviously did not read Peete's, Currawongs or Droseras reviews. Here are pictures for comparisons, with Compass modular design. For further technical details you should read Peete's review http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5420063-post2019.html. Compass Pictures courtesy of Peete and mbd2884

 If you read the reviews, they will go into detail Amps control, detail, clarity. 

 Compass has a full desktop sized complete DAC. And it has a full, desktop sized Amp. Just cause it has both DAC/Amp, doesn't mean anything was compromised. I posted a picture of the Gilmore Lite which is one of the more recommended discrete SS Amp here on Head-Fi for Mid-Fi users. 

 Compass is a Class A device just as all of Audio-gd's products. The final version for the rest of you will be 9 db /15 db. I think it has been suggested the HD650 should still be fine with 9 db option. For the Newbs like myself, who may wonder what is Class A?

 Wikipedia quick description
  Quote:


 Class A amplifying devices operate over the whole of the input cycle such that the output signal is an exact scaled-up replica of the input with no clipping. In a Class A circuit, the amplifying element is biased so the device is always conducting to some extent, and is operated over the most linear portion of its characteristic curve (known as its transfer characteristic or transconductance curve). Because the device is always conducting, even if there is no input at all, power is drawn from the power supply. 
 

Also some blah blah over in-efficient, but we are talking about headphone amps, not power/integrated amps. 






 I did the same to compare to the KECES 151, which I feel lately has been one of the more recommended DACs for users who would be interested in the Compass. [size=medium][size=x-small]You ask, why is the KECES 151 DAC so much smaller? Gilmore Lite and Compass are equivalent, but here not so much. Compass DAC is 100% discrete from input to output. The only IC are the D/A and DSP. And before the lame attacks come, this is not a comparison of quality or sound. Just a difference in design, pffft.

 I also posted a picture of the KECES 171. This is to show what the KECES Amp is. KECES Claims their 152 is the 151 with something like the 171, but you can't tell since it's all on one board. Here with 151 and 171 can see for comparison to the Compass. Hope this helps for those who want to compare the Compass to the 152 from a design and technical aspect. Not a quality vs SQ comparison for those who I may have angered. FYI the 171 Amp is claimed to be improved over the 152 Amp, so it's not the exact same, but it gives you an idea, right?

 Discrete vs OpAmp or IC Design:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/dis...opamps-157504/

 Interesting, if you read there are explanations of why OpAmp, IC designed Amps are not true Class A. They can be biased into a Class A design, but a true Class A will burn up the OpAmp. Compass is true Class A far as I know. That's why the Compass Amp has 4 heatsinks, to dissipate heat generated in a Class A design. 

 The Audio-gd Compass does use an OpAmp, but its completely discrete. It was the world's first designed by Audio-gd, they are still the only ones to possess the original PCB designs. Some may have issue with this, but fact is, Compass is still 100% discrete output. Anyways, some prefer Discrete OpAmps, some don't. But on Head-Fi, overall there is a preference for Discrete than IC. 

 If a generalization can be made. Simpler, inexpensive will use OpAmp. Discrete design tend to use higher quality parts and gives the designer more control. Are these set in stone, there are good OpAmp IC Amps and bad discrete Amps. It really comes down to the user's and the designer/engineer. I personally find comfort in an engineer's capability to design a fully discrete output Amp and DAC. Read the thread for more opinions and views.
 [/size][/size] 
 I think having these pictures right in your face to compare, should dissipate any thoughts that the Compass is some hybrid DAC/Amp combo, where in fact that is not the case. It's equivalent of stuffing a full sized DAC and full sized Amp into one package. 

 [size=medium]*Compass Rectifier

*[size=x-small]Rectifier is a Alternate Current converter to Direct Current. 

 Just compare to something like the KECES for power source. Then look at something like Gilmore Lite which uses a Elpac WallWart. Any questions about the power source should be answered now. Compass is well fitted for power. I mentioned Gilmore Lite because in all the threads I've read, no one has asked, is the Lite well powered. But in this thread, there have been a few who questioned the Compass power, implying it needed more...

 Underneath is the 50w Toroidal power source. Taken from Peete. [/size][/size]Fully shielded 50 Watt Toroidal transformer 100-120V or 220-240V primary - customer specified at time of order. No universal V switch used because of Sound Quality degradation. Transformer is rated at 120V 
 or 240V instead of cheaper 110-115 or 220-230V competitors.

 Power source is also Full Sized. Notice in separate power source, the rectifier is screwed to the floor of the casing with the toroidal behind. Do the same for the Compass power source, there you go. I don't see the difference. Any questions still whether the Compass is well powered? /Flex 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 [size=medium]*Gilmore Lite*[/size]







 [size=medium]*Compass Amp*[/size]







 [size=medium]*KECES 171 Headphone Amp/PreAmp*[/size]







 [size=medium]*
 KECES 151 USB DAC





**
 Compass DAC







 Compass vs 152, just the Amp/DAC

 [size=small]KECES 152 (Left), Audio-gd Compass (Right)

 [/size] 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 So how big is it?!?!?

 Gilmore Lite






 KECES 152 (USB DAC/Amp Combo) w/ HD600






 Compass: Yes it's even bigger! 







*[/size]


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can see, the Compass, the Amp is not just an addon to a DAC, it's a complete, full sized desktop Amp. I did this because lately a lot of the questions have been implying the poster impression was, Compass Amp is just a half assed addon, with questions like, can it drive my headphones? Ridiculous, I'm very afraid to put the volume past 12 o Clock on my Compass for fear of blowing up the drivers in my headphones, 53mm Audio Technica drivers... Past 9 o Clock and I guarantee tinnitis in your future._

 

Be careful here, you're in danger of misinforming people by answering a very common headphone-beginners question in the wrong way.

 That question is:"Is this amp powerful enough to drive my headphones?" 

 What the questioner often means is: can it play them loud enough? That's not the most relevant question to ask of an amp. It's far more important to ask: can it control my headphones sufficiently? 

 Anyways, to both these questions and for the large majority of headphones the answer with regard to the Compass is a resounding: Yes!

 I can vouch for MBD's observations regarding listening level, I never listen above 9 o'clock either, using far more sensitive headphones and listening to recordings that are not loud in any way to begin with. Mind that we are talking here about the testversion's low gain setting which is actually, quite high. The new version will have a lower low gain setting, allowing you greater control over the volume. What is 9 o'clock to us, will probably be about 12 o'clock to the new users.

 The only headphones I can think of that might be problematic for the Compass to drive (especially in 'control' sense) are oddities like the AKG K1000 and the K340. And those are headphones that were meant to be driven from the speaker output of an ordinary speaker amp anyways.


----------



## mbd2884

I clarified some stuff, thanks Drosera.


----------



## Drosera

Oh, one more remark. I think it's a bit misleading to call the Compass DAC fully discrete. It's only discrete in the section that filters the analog signal after the DA conversion, not before that. Compare that with some of the higher-end DACs from Audio-gd where the DA-conversion is also executed discretely.

 I do love the way the volume pot and headphone jack of the Compass compare to their equivalents in the Gilmore Lite. Not saying anything about quality, but the visual aspect alone is heartwarming.

 EDIT: Okay, maybe I should only start correcting you after you finished editing it yourself.


----------



## mbd2884

I'm done, anything else misleading let me know, time to get ready for work.

 I hope that answers some questions, pictures say a thousand words? Sometimes yes.


----------



## insyte

Very nice pic comparisons mbd


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice pic comparisons mbd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

We are a strange bunch of people, aren't we? Getting our kicks looking at PCBs.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do love the way the volume pot and headphone jack of the Compass compare to their equivalents in the Gilmore Lite. Not saying anything about quality, but the visual aspect alone is heartwarming._

 

Yeah Peete identified it as the Alps RK27 Blue Velvet


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice pic comparisons mbd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah I must say that was quite a good post. However, perhaps the advantages of discrete should also be explained? 

 Well I just wanted to be sure that I was spending money into a fully capable amp, because I find that I can hear a lot more differences between amped and unamped than between DACs (I did a simple test with my CS powered SVDAC05 and the Wolfson on my AV-710, very little difference to me). So, the obvious question was if 300 odd USD was a wise choice in getting the Compass if I'm really only interested in the DAC, or, should I be looking at getting a super duper amp


----------



## mbd2884

The only way to know is if someone does a direct comparison of the Compass Amp vs say a Solo/KICAS/Gilmore Lite. If you have to buy blind, at least you know the Amp in the Compass is in fact a complete discrete Amp. But if you just need an Amp, I'd personally buy an Amp. C2C for 335 would be a better buy than the Compass for an Amp, likely. Or some other Amp, tubes whatever.

 Tubes vs Solid State for you: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_13/12.html

 But then the Amp is only as good as the DAC. You can can read the impressions and reviews to judge the Compass DAC and decided, overall the Compass may be your best option.

 The reason why the Bypass option on the Compass was named "Super" by Kingwa, not because it was a super idea. But because he was amazed at the quality of the Amp. Put it this way, Kingwa amazed himself, if that matters at all.

 I added a small blurb about Discrete and a link to a giant thread here on Head-Fi


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We are a strange bunch of people, aren't we? Getting our kicks looking at PCBs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Most of my friends already find it strange that I use an amp with my ipod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I just wanted to be sure that I was spending money into a fully capable amp, because I find that I can hear a lot more differences between amped and unamped than between DACs (I did a simple test with my CS powered SVDAC05 and the Wolfson on my AV-710, very little difference to me). So, the obvious question was if 300 odd USD was a wise choice in getting the Compass if I'm really only interested in the DAC, or, should I be looking at getting a super duper amp_

 

Well the amp in the compass according to the reviews is no slouch. I took the C2C route as I think it is a step up from the Compass Amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Though I don't know if the Stello DA-100 is a better DAC than the Compass


----------



## HammerSandwich

Oops!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Compass vs 152, just the Amp/DAC

 [size=small]KECES 152 (right), Audio-gd Compass (Left)

 [/size] 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






_


----------



## mbd2884

zzz already been fixed. Please edit your post as it's no longer needed, thanks.


----------



## HammerSandwich

Sorry. I refreshed immediately before quoting and missed the change.


----------



## Dinglehoser

Sorry if it's already been asked, but has anyone done a direct comparison with a Zhaolu D2.5 or a DACMagic? I'm thinking about dumping the former and almost pulled the trigger on the latter, but this caught my eye just in time ... would save a ton of cash if both the DAC sections and the headamp are up to snuff. I like what I've read so far, but it's hard to tell whether it's "good for the money" like the Zhaolu is, or just good period. Upshot is that I want something that's better than the D2.5C and upgraded built-in discrete amp I've already got.


----------



## mbd2884

Dude, someone didn't a post a just a page back say, read the first post? And I just posted a massive post, which said, read the reviews! A lot of people have spent a ton of time writing these reviews and impressions for Head-Fiers like yourself. Instead of being lazy and just writing a question that has already been asked way too many times, read the reviews.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinglehoser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if it's already been asked, but has anyone done a direct comparison with a Zhaolu D2.5 or a DACMagic?_

 

I don't think that direct comparisons have been made given that there are only 18 of these out there. I think there was some poo-pooing of the DACmagic, which isn't surprising because people here are rooting for audio-gd.

 Have you read the reviews linked on the first post? I think it's pretty clear that compass is both good value and flat out good. I know which one I want.

 BTW, are all of the original owners on this board, or did Kingwa sell some domestically? I have the feeling that we haven't heard impressions from all 18. Anyway, with him shipping a new batch, we'll probably see some more comparisons soon.


----------



## Currawong

I've updated the first post again with the comparison question since people keep asking it.


----------



## ScottieB

Hey Curra, in your comparison to the DAC-1, you say that the Zero (stock) is a 60 and the Compass is an 80. What number would the Zero with an HDAM get?


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think that direct comparisons have been made given that there are only 18 of these out there. I think there was some poo-pooing of the DACmagic, which isn't surprising because people here are rooting for audio-gd.

 Have you read the reviews linked on the first post? I think it's pretty clear that compass is both good value and flat out good. I know which one I want.

 BTW, are all of the original owners on this board, or did Kingwa sell some domestically? I have the feeling that we haven't heard impressions from all 18. Anyway, with him shipping a new batch, we'll probably see some more comparisons soon._

 

It's not poo pooing, out of context. What the impressions have said, when you factor in diminishing returns, you would be better off getting something even better than the DacMagic to hear significant differences.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not poo pooing, out of context. What the impressions have said, when you factor in diminishing returns, you would be better off getting something even better than the DacMagic to hear significant differences._

 

fair enough. I recalled some stronger opinions of the DACmagic in comparison to the Compass, but perhaps I'm wrong. It was all speculative and opinions anyway, so nothing to really base a purchase decision on.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Curra, in your comparison to the DAC-1, you say that the Zero (stock) is a 60 and the Compass is an 80. What number would the Zero with an HDAM get?_

 

I was borrowing from someone else's scale. Maybe a HDAM-upgraded Zero is something like 70? Don't take it as a percentage scale, as someone originally wrote that the iPod was 5.


----------



## ScottieB

Thanks. Fair enough, was just curious. That's talking just DAC, right? Not headamp?


----------



## mbd2884

ROFL

 I updated my impression post, linked by Currawong in the OP to include my recent picture posting. 

 I believe I have the single largest post so far. Mostly because I have so many pictures, means if you got a slow connection, it may kill your connection.

 Let's wait and see if Peete's Review Part 3 will exceed it! But Peete's Reviews Part 1, 2 and 3 combined would trump mine for sure. And far more informative and detailed, with comparisons FYI. Mine are just my newbie impressions of the Compass alone. So for those reading this, Peete's, Currawong's and Drosera's reviews have the comparison you seek. Want to read a newbie review/impression go ahead check out mine.

Designing an alternative to the Zero DAC/amp -- Now it has a name: The Audio-gd Compass - Page 202 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## D.C.

nice one MBD,...damn that means i won't take the piss when you become Headphoneus Supremus


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Your getting close mbd...you have more pics though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....(I think).

 Just taking a break from the writing of colossus .....there is Part IV and V now .....argh...ugh.....

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just taking a break from the writing of colossus .....there is Part IV and V now_

 

Part III will be posted before Part IV and V are finished, right? Please... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think Kingwa will be rewarding the biggest post in this thread with something of the top of the line of Audio-gd of your choice. Ready..., get set..., go!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.....argh...ugh....._

 

Sounds coming from Peete's avatar.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your getting close mbd...you have more pics though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....(I think).

 Just taking a break from the writing of colossus .....there is Part IV and V now .....argh...ugh.....

 Peete._

 

Part IV and V!!! Wow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What is part IV and V about?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. Fair enough, was just curious. That's talking just DAC, right? Not headamp?_

 

That's just the DAC so far. Rating the head-amps is much harder to do. In the Zero, you HAVE to use the Zero's DAC. If you then use the Zero as the DAC for another amp you rate, you might not be getting the most out of that amp.

 I tried the Zero again with Earth HDAM just now with the Stax for fun. I am still surprised how musical it is. The jump from the stock Zero (with OPA2134) to one with a fully-burned in HDAM is huge.

 I was going to compare it to my Corda Move, but using USB the right channel is dead for some reason, and I left it on by accident, so the battery is flat.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

No worries guys and gal (if there is one
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) Part III (so far 14 large paragraphs with another 12 to go) will be posted before I start work on Part IV and then V.

 Part IV will be the cable comparison. Audio-gd upgrade mains cable and Canare COAX vs what I have on hand (several makes and types of each)

 Part V will be the final rev Compass write up centering around the soft/bright/neutral settings, Moon and SUN V2 impressions in the DAC section and finally the new gain structure explored to see if it changes the character of the Compass any. Overall looks,functionality,fit and finish delved into from an end product consumer level piece as opposed to the test unit's much more laid back approach in terms of criticism in those areas. 

 Much shorter sections in content and scope than the first 3 parts ( I hope). The overall conclusion to summarize the test units and final versions journey etc...


 Peete.


----------



## insyte

Thanks for the teaser Peete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Im interested in what your findings will be in part IV


----------



## sennsay

While I'm waiting for my Compass to arrive, does anyone have a stock ZERO in fine working order for sale? I really just need a main board in perfect condition, but a whole unit is just fine. Please PM me if anyone has one. Cheers, S-Man


----------



## sennsay

Sorry, double post.


----------



## Hottuna_

So, has the 30 upgraded ones shipped yet?

 I would certainly like to read some impressions on them before i put in my order for the final version....

 Though i must say i'm pretty tempted to order it before impressions appear....


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hottuna_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, has the 30 upgraded ones shipped yet?

 I would certainly like to read some impressions on them before i put in my order for the final version....

 Though i must say i'm pretty tempted to order it before impressions appear...._

 

No, haven't shipped yet. Any day now, I think.

 No need to ask really, I'm sure that as soon as the next people who have bought the Compass receive their email saying it has shipped, they will tell us about it in this thread. Probably a whole row of posts along the lines of: "Just got the email that says my Compass has shipped. OMG, I can't wait for it to arrive!"


----------



## insyte

I received an email from Cherry today. She was asking if I wanted my Compass in 220 or 110V.......................

 I had to reply immediately 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That I ordered a C2C 220V


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received an email from Cherry today. She was asking if I wanted my Compass in 220 or 110V.......................

 I had to reply immediately 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That I ordered a C2C 220V 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	














_

 

Wow! I wonder if they were actually making the wrong product for you, or if Cherry simply used the wrong name for it.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, haven't shipped yet. Any day now, I think.

 No need to ask really, I'm sure that as soon as the next people who have bought the Compass receive their email saying it has shipped, they will tell us about it in this thread. Probably a whole row of posts along the lines of: "Just got the email that says my Compass has shipped. OMG, I can't wait for it to arrive!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, the way things are happening out here, I wont be surprised to see next a whole row of posts along the lines _"Just got the email that says my Reference One has been shipped. OMG, I can't wait for it to arrive!" _ ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 I received an email from Cherry today. She was asking if I wanted my Compass in 220 or 110V.......................

 I had to reply immediately That I ordered a C2C 220V 
 

For once you can say you made a _*good mistake*_ by not mentioning the voltage preference while placing the order !!..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the way things are happening out here, I wont be surprised to see next a whole row of posts along the lines "Just got the email that says my Reference One has been shipped. OMG, I can't wait for it to arrive!"  ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

High time for an Audio-gd Reference DAC thread, methinks.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_High time for an Audio-gd Reference DAC thread, methinks._

 

methought long time ago..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if my ability to read and read between the lines of what people say out here can be considered average, then I am sure that at least 6 of the 18 current compass owners are going for one of the reference series DAC..


----------



## Currawong

My Ref 1 is shipping mid-March, so if nobody does first, I'll start a thread on it.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Ref 1 is shipping mid-March, so if nobody does first, I'll start a thread on it._

 

Very awesome!


----------



## Currawong

Now someone has to buy my Northstar, which I'll ship at the end of March, after I've done a comparison.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, haven't shipped yet. Any day now, I think.

 No need to ask really, I'm sure that as soon as the next people who have bought the Compass receive their email saying it has shipped, they will tell us about it in this thread. Probably a whole row of posts along the lines of: "Just got the email that says my Compass has shipped. OMG, I can't wait for it to arrive!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Haha yeah no doubt - I've been waiting for that email - the days are gong by more slowly... just realized I never specified 110V... hopefully he'd assume that since I'm in the US but I guess I should shoot off an email to be sure...


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha yeah no doubt - I've been waiting for that email - the days are gong by more slowly... just realized I never specified 110V... hopefully he'd assume that since I'm in the US but I guess I should shoot off an email to be sure..._

 

Hm, yeah, maybe the need to specify this should go into the FAQ. Or perhaps add a "Short guide to ordering your Compass".


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm, yeah, maybe the need to specify this should go into the FAQ. Or perhaps add a "Short guide to ordering your Compass"._

 

It's funny because I KNEW I needed to specify, just completely slipped my mind at the time of order (I picked up a few other things too) and they never asked (although they asked a bunch of other questions). I've ordered from Kingwa before so he knows where I live - I assume he'll know, but sent an email to be sure anyway.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now someone has to buy my Northstar, which I'll ship at the end of March, after I've done a comparison._

 

Congrats on your purchase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -------------

 I actually did specify the voltage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think they were confused because I think Kingwa searched for the local voltage here, he found both 110 and 220, well 220V is more common here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was more shocked when they said "compass" in the email


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now someone has to buy my Northstar, which I'll ship at the end of March, after I've done a comparison._

 

I would call that decision a calculated risk by an honest reviewer !!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 I actually did specify the voltage I think they were confused because I think Kingwa searched for the local voltage here, he found both 110 and 220, well 220V is more common here I was more shocked when they said "compass" in the email 
 

On the brighter side its good to know someone does the thinking over and above us just to make sure.

 EDIT - Sorry I retracted a statement I just made.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha yeah no doubt - I've been waiting for that email - the days are gong by more slowly... just realized I never specified 110V... hopefully he'd assume that since I'm in the US but I guess I should shoot off an email to be sure..._

 

I never specified when I was ordering one of the first 18, I suspect Kingwa knew I needed 110V because of my location in the US.


----------



## ScottieB

^ Yes, he just confirmed via email that they made that assumption and "made your compass at 110V."


----------



## senn_liu

curra, are you certain about selling the northstar because:

 1) you're sure that the reference one will outperform it
 2) the reference one is balanced and the northstar isn't
 3) some other reason

 ??


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_methought long time ago..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if my ability to read and read between the lines of what people say out here can be considered average, then I am sure that at least 6 of the 18 current compass owners are going for one of the reference series DAC.._

 

I'm very tempted... but I won't for the foreseeable future. I have other things the money can be spent on, and at the moment I'm still very much in love with the Compass.

 One day though... one day. It'd take a lot for me to consider something other than Audio-GD gear these days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Ok, I am jumping in here with no flaming protection, so feel free to beat up on the newbie here.

 I am just now getting into this audio stuff. I have obviously always listened to music and always did care how it sounded, but until I realized what was out there for headphones, amps, DACs, etc. I never saw the true potential. 

 Enough of that. I currently have the headphones purchased (DT880s) and an upgraded soundcard (Auzuntech XFi Prelude 7.1 with the additional AD797AR preamp/opamp). 

 I have read so many good things about this Compass from the reviews and also mbd and even have an email out to Cherry so all I have to do is pull the trigger. But my question is...If I buy the Compass, am I going to need to turn around and buy an amp on top of it? Or if I buy the Compass, will this suffice with the rest of my existing setup and no amp? If I just bought an amp and not purchased the Compass, am I going to be losing a lot of potential SQ?

 I apologize for the dumb questions. I am just trying to get my arms wrapped around this stuff. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Dinglehoser

Before the wolves jump on you like they did to me, the first post has a lot of good info about the built-in amp. From what I gather, the built-in amp is quite good, as is the DAC section. Unless you need the surround output for a set of gaming speakers or something, you could probably ditch the Auzentech.


----------



## Ub3rMario

Would it be a significant upgrade to get the compass to replace my Octavart The One & Alien DAC? I'm running the rig from my laptop through USB, and using d2000's. However, i plan to get some hd580/600s.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have read so many good things about this Compass from the reviews and also mbd and even have an email out to Cherry so all I have to do is pull the trigger. But my question is...If I buy the Compass, am I going to need to turn around and buy an amp on top of it? Or if I buy the Compass, will this suffice with the rest of my existing setup and no amp? If I just bought an amp and not purchased the Compass, am I going to be losing a lot of potential SQ?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinglehoser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unless you need the surround output for a set of gaming speakers or something, you could probably ditch the Auzentech._

 

The wolves will jump on you when you ask questions that can be easily answered by doing a simple thread search, like asking if certain comparisons have already been done. Not the case here.

 Hard to give you a completely satisfying answer. The Compass DAC will probably be an improvement on the analog out of the Auzentech, but how much is not just an objective thing, but also dependent on personal taste. (Especially if your just starting out in this Hifi-thing.) One thing is for sure, the DT880s will reward you for being amped well.
 Rather than ditching the Auzentech, you might try connecting its digital coax output to the Compass and see if that improves on a connection by USB.

 So, full improvement in the amp department and at least partial improvement when it comes to the DAC. In the end it's your choice whether that's worth 258$ to you.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ub3rMario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would it be a significant upgrade to get the compass to replace my Octavart The One & Alien DAC? I'm running the rig from my laptop through USB, and using d2000's. However, i plan to get some hd580/600s._

 

Yes, probably, maybe, I guess... It's hard to know what you would consider 'significant'. What's significant to me might not be significant to you.


----------



## haloxt

I have a ht omega claro halo sound card that should probably be around the same quality as a prelude, maybe a little less since I am using cheapo lm4562's (there's no way I'll buy 4x AD797's for the halo). But when I stick jellybean opamps inside the compass, it is still vastly superior to the sound card in 3-d imaging, but the sound card is a pretty good contender in detail. A sound card has more interesting software to play with, but practically speaking a compass will be limited only by the fact that only one ASIO program will work at a time and it will monopolize the audio output, so no listening to music and gaming at the same time unless you disable ASIO or get a $50 usb asio software that will allow multiple ASIO's... ripoff!


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I buy the Compass, am I going to need to turn around and buy an amp on top of it? Or if I buy the Compass, will this suffice with the rest of my existing setup and no amp?_

 

The compass's dac will replace the function of your soundcard, except for the surround stuff, as mentioned.

 but yeah, the compass would be, I think, an absolutely ideal place to start to get into audio, esp PC audio. It's just amazingly flexible. By all accounts it sounds great on its own. But eventually, you can use its DAC and upgrade the amp, or the other way around. Or you can use it as a preamp and get a power amp (apparently, Audio-gd has one in the works already) and speakers for a loudspeaker setup. Peete made very clear how impressed he was with it as a pre, and looking at his gear and knowledge, that says something.

 Another way it's flexible is in its sound signature. if you continue with audio, you'll start to discover your own preferences for sound. With the compass, you can experiment with different OPAs, brightness, and gain settings, which will help you make better decisions in the future. Or, if you decide not to go all out with audio, you'll have something that you can tailor a little bit to your preference.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I just bought an amp and not purchased the Compass, am I going to be losing a lot of potential SQ?_

 

A few outliers would disagree, but I think most people would say that yes, you are going to be losing a lot of potential SQ. In my experience, you absolutely need a good dac. On my loudspeakers setup, I find my motherboard's sound out to be unacceptable. The external DAC changes everything. Now, you have a nice soundcard, so maybe that will suffice for you. I'd read up more on this. Look at reviews of newer USB DACs, and you'll start to be convinced of the potential of computer audio.


----------



## Ub3rMario

Well really I just want to know if i'm going to hear a positive difference in SQ. Not necessarily night and day but definitely noticeable.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Thanks. Very good responses and I appreciate that. I guess I don't know enough about this stuff yet to make sound decisions, hence the dumb questions. 

 Heck I don't even really know the difference between a preamp and like a regular headphone amp, but that is for me to research.

 So here are my options, knowing that I spent a nice chunk of change on the sound card + preamp. I still do have money left in my budget for the entire rig so I am flexible.

 Option A:
 Winamp (or whatever player, that is a question for a later time) -> Auzentech XFi Prelude -> Compass (as amplifier not DAC) -> DT880

 Option B:
 Winamp -> Compass DAC -> DT880

 Option C:
 Winamp -> Compass DAC -> Additional Amplifier (might get out of my budget for now, but open to suggestions that will work great with the Compass) -> DT880.

 So, what Option would you feel would be the best for Sound Quality while keeping value and budget in mind? Obviously B&C excludes the sound card which I would probably just have that go straight to my speakers. Thanks again!


----------



## ScottieB

Option A doesn't make much sense - why would you buy the Compass and not use the DAC? I highly doubt the sound card DAC is better.

 Options B and C are kinda the same, no? If you don't have the $$ for the additional amp, get the compass now, use it's amp until you can afford to upgrade (or if not upgrade, get a similar quality but different amp - like a tube amp). 

 So option C is really just option B with future expansion in mind - always best around these parts!


----------



## Dat_Dude

I agree that Option A doesn't make much sense, which is why I was considering not getting the Compass at all and going with an Amplifier instead. I just have no idea how much SQ I am sacrificing going from the SoundCard to the Amp to the DT880s instead of through the DAC. 

 You are also right that B & C are kind of the same. Main reason I split them out was wondering that if I use the Compass as both a DAC and and Amplifier am I immediately going to be wanting more? I know that is very subjective, but I guess I am asking for a majority opinion. 

 Now I am starting to think I bought the sound card and didn't even need to! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's just money though, right? Cant take it with ya!


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now I am starting to think I bought the sound card and didn't even need to! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's just money though, right? Cant take it with ya!_

 

Everyone makes mistakes in building up a system.

 Reading the reviews, I doubt that you're "immediately going to be wanting more" with the compass, but you know yourself better.

 OTOH, If you keep the soundcard and buy a good amp, you put yourself in position to upgrade your DAC after a few years. There seems to be a lot of interest in USB DACs now, so it's not a bad idea to defer that purchase.

 Depends a lot on how much you want to spend, and what kind of system you want to end up with. Patience and restraint is usually advisable. There's so much hype in audio.


----------



## Aleatoris

I took the plunge and bought the compass as my first DAC/Amp to go with a newly ordered pair of AD900s. I will be using USB in. Hopefully I'll receive the compass sometime in mid-april.

 Cheers!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree that Option A doesn't make much sense, which is why I was considering not getting the Compass at all and going with an Amplifier instead. I just have no idea how much SQ I am sacrificing going from the SoundCard to the Amp to the DT880s instead of through the DAC. 

 You are also right that B & C are kind of the same. Main reason I split them out was wondering that if I use the Compass as both a DAC and and Amplifier am I immediately going to be wanting more? I know that is very subjective, but I guess I am asking for a majority opinion. 

 Now I am starting to think I bought the sound card and didn't even need to! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's just money though, right? Cant take it with ya!_

 


 I noticed a pretty big difference when I added a DAC to my amp - and my DAC is "only" a Zero (for now). I'd say it is worthwhile. From what I hear, the amp on the Compass is pretty darn good, too - so it should last you a while.

 That said, this is head-fi, and the upgrade bug hits pretty fast. Buying the Compass would give you the best of both worlds: A nice DAC and amp to get you started, and also a very capable DAC that will scale with upgrades if/when you want to.

 As for the sound card, I wouldn't be too upset - it could very well offer a better transport (does it have optical or coax?) and didn't you say you still would use it with speakers? I personally have yet to find an on-board (motherboard) sound card that is worth using - I prefer discrete cards. Even though I use a DAC, I consider my sound card a good purchase... of course I do play games as well...


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aleatoris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I will be using USB in. Hopefully I'll receive the compass sometime in mid-april._

 

did you just order it? Is that when he's going to start shipping again after this batch of 30 is done?


----------



## mbd2884

Next shipment supposed to be ready at end of March, so he may get it early April instead, last I checked.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aleatoris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I took the plunge and bought the compass as my first DAC/Amp to go with a newly ordered pair of AD900s. I will be using USB in. Hopefully I'll receive the compass sometime in mid-april.

 Cheers!_

 

Same setup as me! I hope you love the combo as much as I do!


----------



## mrchyles

Just trying to get some perspective... Given the technology and quality of the Compass which Headroom amp/dac combo would it be closest to?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Outboard DAC vs SC...no contest IMO. The outboard DAC makes a big difference in overall SQ.

 Buying the Compass makes the most sense for someone starting out even more so at the introductory rate. 

 The Zero and then FrankenZERO were big leaps in SQ over my Auzen Prelude, that being said I agree with ScottieB about a decent SC makes for a better than average transport from the PC while allowing gaming functionality if that is another use for your PC (I game as well but not as much as I used to).

 The Compass is yet another step beyond the FrankenZERO's SQ and that's saying something.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Tough to say what Headroom amp compares with the Compass. There isn't enough of them out yet to make that comparison. If it does well against the Corda it should do well against something similar from the Headroom line up.

 Peete.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Alrighty. You sold me on the Compass. I have more of a functionality question now.

 I noticed the Dial on the front panel that goes from USB to Optical to Coax. So how since I have this new sound card, which has all sorts of inputs, two of which are Optical (In/Out) and then the normal plugs for surround sound speakers. Could I essentially run my 2.1 speakers (just has the one output going into the PC currently) in to the Compass and then into the sound card via Optical cable and then just have the dial set to "Opt" when I want to listen to the external speakers and then on the flipside switch it over to USB when I want to use the headphones (with obviously a USB cable going into the PC as well)?

 I am just trying to envision how I would/will wire this thing up so I can easily go from my Speakers to my headphones.


----------



## mbd2884

That doesn't make sense. The USB, Coax and Opitcal are inputs, not outputs. 

 Headphone amps are always made for two channel, one for each headphone driver. Using surround sound speakers through a speaker amp is just dumb, the DAC can't even process DSP required for surround sound.

 The only output on this is for DAC out to another Amp, headphone out or pre-amp out. Where you plan running speakers from, baffles me. 

 Baffles me more when people try to use headphone amps to drive speakers. The only SS amp I know of that may have a chance is a super beefed up beta22.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That doesn't make sense. The USB, Coax and Opitcal are inputs, not outputs. 

 Headphone amps are always made for two channel, one for each headphone driver. Using surround sound speakers through a speaker amp is just dumb, the DAC can't even process DSP required for surround sound.

 Just use RCA for your speakers. When you want to listen to your speakers, your outputs through the RCA, when you want to listen with headphones, use the headphone jack. 

 I don't understand your line of thinking at all._

 

Which is why I have prefaced everything I have said with how new I am with all of this and fully expected someone to come along and point out how much of an idiot I am. So, thank you for not disappointing me. 

 The whole point behind my question was that I am just trying to figure out the best way to switch from the speakers to the headphones and how this all gets wired up. So since the Compass replaces the soundcard when I am listening to headphones, that essentially means that if I have the power off to the DAC then the sound will automatically go through my speakers, but when I have it turned on it will go through the headphones?


----------



## mbd2884

Damn wish you didn't quote me before the edit, as using your speakers through RCA doesn't make sense when Compass has no RCA output from the Amp section.

 The Compass isn't a Soundcard replacement. Nor is it a receiver capable of Dolby Surround and driving speakers replacement.

 It is a Headphone Solution for Music Listening.

 This means if you want to use speakers for surround sound movies, use a proper receiver.

 If you want to use computer speakers, use the soundcard

 If you want to play games, even with headphones use the soundcard because the Compass can't process any of the new 3D DSP crud that some games use. Is it a possible to use the Compass while gaming, with games like Warhammer 40K and TF2, yes. But if you plan on playing competitive CS 1.6, nope, use the soundcard, or I recommend using the soundcard.

 So don't remove the soundcard or throw it away. But for listening to music through headphones, soundcard or receiver won't match the Compass, and not by slight margin, but leaps.

 Head-Fi community is based around a bunch of audiophile/aficionados to discuss listening to music with headphones. Soundcards were spoken of because it's often a great cheap solution if can't afford external DAC or Amps. But even when discussing soundcards, it's about listening to music through cans. That's why when people talk about superiority of speakers, they are often told, this is the wrong place to do so.

 Why did I sound harsh, well you asked baffling questions without even looking at the Compass. Just reading the specifications and details you would know that yourself. Also questions about surround sound, and what not are all answered througout this forum. It's far easier to be lazy and just make another post asking the same question answered numerous times before, but it's far more fun to do some research IMO.


----------



## Currawong

Multiquote for the win. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_curra, are you certain about selling the northstar because:

 1) you're sure that the reference one will outperform it
 2) the reference one is balanced and the northstar isn't
 3) some other reason

 ??_

 

I'm selling it after I've received the Ref 1, so I'll be able to do a comparison, at the very least because you all will bug me about it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Other than that, I'm pretty sure it will out-perform the Northstar, just as the Krell, Mark Levinson and Esoteric DACs that use a similar set-up probably would. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heck I don't even really know the difference between a preamp and like a regular headphone amp, but that is for me to research._

 

In many high-end systems, instead of just having a single amplifier that takes the signal and amplifies it for the speakers, the two parts, "pre" and "power" are split. The pre-amp has the signal input and volume control, and the power amps just contain the electronics that drive the speakers.

  Quote:


 So here are my options, ... 
 

The good thing is, you can test all of these options yourself with the Compass to see if you have a noticeable improvement.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alrighty. You sold me on the Compass. I have more of a functionality question now.

 I noticed the Dial on the front panel that goes from USB to Optical to Coax. So how since I have this new sound card, which has all sorts of inputs, two of which are Optical (In/Out) and then the normal plugs for surround sound speakers. Could I essentially run my 2.1 speakers (just has the one output going into the PC currently) in to the Compass and then into the sound card via Optical cable and then just have the dial set to "Opt" when I want to listen to the external speakers and then on the flipside switch it over to USB when I want to use the headphones (with obviously a USB cable going into the PC as well)?

 I am just trying to envision how I would/will wire this thing up so I can easily go from my Speakers to my headphones._

 

I think you might be backwards. The setting dial on the Compass is for digital input into the Compass. The only outputs of the Compass are analog, for the headphones/pre-amp, and directly from the DAC section (without volume control in Super mode).

 Hmm, I tried to post my FAQ in the blog section but I get a database error.


----------



## Currawong

[size=small]*Ok, now that the blogs work again, this has been posted here. Please link to the blog entry and not this post. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The History of the Compass:*[/size] (Read this specially if you're new to audio gear and Head-fi.)

 Like many people, back when I took an interest in Head-fi, I'd been using a good pair of headphones straight out of my computer. As the pads on my headphones had worn out, I was considering a new pair of headphones to replace them. With a budget of about $200-300, I headed to the local electronics shop to try out a few pairs, but thought I'd read around Head-fi to see what people liked. Like many other people, as soon as you ask about half-decent headphones, someone chimes in with "But you'll need a decent amp to drive them.". So you start looking for a decent amp. Then someone chimes in, "If you get an amp, you'll need a decent DAC too, your soundcard wont be good enough". Ok, so that makes what I need not just $200 for headphones, but a couple of hundred for an amp, and the same again for a DAC. Ouch.

 With decent headphones, you need an amp because it can drive the diaphragms of the headphones much better than a crappy sound card (or CD player). You need a dedicated DAC (Digital to Analogue Converter) because your sound card, even if it's a good one, is seriously compromised so that it will work in a computer, not to mention will pick up a lot of interference from other components. 

 However, rather than having to buy two components, some companies make an all-in-one device that is both a DAC and a headphone amp. You buy one box, plug it into your computer, plug your headphones into the box, and you're set. The most popular device for doing this on Head-fi is possibly the Zero DAC. Made in China, costing only $99 and, most importantly, sounding good, it was a hard purchase to argue with. What's more, over year, a number of people experimented with modifying it to improve the sound. This was easy because a couple of critical components (known as OPAMPs) could be popped out of their sockets and replaced with many of the thousands of others on the market. This got to the point where even the eBay sellers were modifying them and shipping them to customers for up to about $220. That's quite a jump from $99, but so was the sound quality.

 However, after a while there were problems. People were receiving these units not working, with stupid mistakes as as the OPAMPs inserted in backwards (destroying them) or in one extreme case, burning up someone's headphones. This was not cool.

 During various people's search for upgrades, we came across a company called Audio-gd, who makes, among other things, an OPAMP called a HDAM. It made quite a nice improvement to the Zero. Not only that, the owner, Kingwa, is a very receptive and enthusiastic man, and took on board a couple some suggestions about his designs. Audio-gd also makes other hi-fi gear, including a couple of headphone amps, so, after another head-fi'er blew up at me asking why I still had a link to an eBay seller in the Zero FAQ who'd had a couple of major customer issues, I decided to do one better, and asked the owner of Audio-gd if he could make something similar to the Zero, for about the price of a fully-upgraded model. Since I'd already bought and was satisfied with the quality of one of his headphone amps (the C2C), and a couple of other head-fiers who'd bought gear from him were pleased with both the quality and his customer service, if he could make such a unit, then there'd be a decent all-in-one solution for people, who, as I was when I started, were looking for a decent but inexpensive head-fi solution. This became the Compass.

 [size=small]*Ok, so what's the damage to my wallet going to be?*[/size]

 As a promotion, Kingwa has said that the Compass will be sold at cost until May 2009, for $258 + shipping. We don't know what price it will be later after that.

*[size=small]What does it do?[/size]*

 The Compass has two parts inside: A Digital to Analogue Converter (DAC) and a headphone amplifier which can also optionally be used as a volume control (pre-amp) for a hi-fi system or similar.

*[size=small]What can it do for me?[/size]*

 Sound a lot better than plugging quality headphones into your soundcard or CD player, mainly, but other than that: 

 In what I'll call "normal" mode, you plug it into your computer or CD player's digital output, via USB, coax (RCA), or optical (Toslink) at the back, plug your headphones in the front and enjoy the music.

*Compass in Normal Mode:* (click for full size)





 In "Super" mode, the DAC and headphone amp are separated, so you can either use the DAC part with another headphone amplifier or hi-fi system, or use the headphone amp by itself plugged into whatever. In the first case this is useful if you want to connect it to something that already has a volume control, and in the second if you want, for example, to see how the Compass sounds compared to your CD player, sound card, or another DAC.

*Compass in Super Mode:* (click for full size)
 


 

 [size=small]*Which is best, USB, coax or optical to connect it to my computer with?*[/size]

 You'll have to experiment. If you have problems with hearing computer noise connected using USB, using a sound card with an optical socket might fix that. Ideally whatever connection you use shouldn't have any software or hardware in your computer altering the sound.

*[size=small]How does it compare to other similar things from other companies?[/size]*

 Its "sound" is very similar to the Zero, but because of the much better components and better design, the sound quality is much better. For other comparisons, they'll be added as people write about them. 

 It's value though is very good. In my own system, of a Northstar DAC ($2500 new or ~$1000 second hand) + Audio-gd C2C amp ($330) + 2x Audio-gd power cables ($75 each) is not anywhere near 6x better than the Compass. I would say it would take around $1000 or close to it to get a significant improvement on sound quality, say, from a Lavry DA-10 or Benchmark DAC1, but then you wont have half the options available.

*Reviews and comparisons are here:*

 ("Thread" links to the post in the thread, "Post" links to the individual post page only.)

 Sanchak compares it to his CD players: Thread | Post
 Joeoboe's review: Thread | Post
 Pricklely Peete's epic review Pt1: Thread | Post
 mbd2884's review with AD900s and the Audio-gd power cable: Thread | Post
 My comparison of the DAC to the Benchmark DAC 1: Thread | Post
 Drosera compares it to the [size=x-small]Meier-Audio Corda Opera[/size]: Thread | Post


----------



## mbd2884

Yay!


----------



## csroc

Nice work Curra.


----------



## edselfordfong

Awesome writeup. I know that's going to be really useful when I try to convince my friends to buy a compass.

 One suggestion is in the "What can it do for me?" add something about the pre-amp function. Yes, this is a headphone forum, so it's not strictly relevant, but I think a post like this has a wider audience. Non-headfiers curious about the compass will stumble on to this post, and it'll help them, and Kingwa, if they know about the preamp. As we've just seen, a lot of this isn't intuitive, especially for the audio newbies at whom Compass is aimed.


----------



## D.C.

Curra to the rescue...lol


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which is why I have prefaced everything I have said with how new I am with all of this and fully expected someone to come along and point out how much of an idiot I am. So, thank you for not disappointing me._

 

it's kind of a rite of passage in this thread to be chewed out by mbd. Try to concentrate on the help he gave you rather than his style. 

 I don' know anything about multi-channel surround sound, but I do have a set of 2.1 speakers. Mine, like many others, plug into a headphone jack, and are active (they provide their own amplification). I guess they have some sort of processing to separate the two channels into three. If you have this type of 2.1 speakers, you can experiment connecting that to the compass headphone out, or, with an rca>headphone out cable, to the compass preamp RCA out. (which is what I do so I don't have to power up my full tube system just to put on toddler music).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Commendable job as always Curra. 

 Another quality post to add to your collection 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS When I looked at the pics a little closer I thought the Compass was number crunching the human genome


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aleatoris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I took the plunge and bought the compass as my first DAC/Amp to go with a newly ordered pair of AD900s. I will be using USB in. Hopefully I'll receive the compass sometime in mid-april.

 Cheers!_

 

I believe there is a post with how to setup media players for ASIO output for Compass, don't know where it is. But here is a simple recommendation from me for Media Monkey.

 For Compass using USB, I recommend Media Monkey. Just in case you or someone else hasn't seen.

 Reason I didn't recommend Foobar2000, the newest version, something weird is going on. When you use ASIO output, the volume should be disabled. But with the newest version, the volume can't be disabled, software volume up and down. Even when the software volume is all the way up, it's softer than it should be and I think the SQ has been affected. Something seriously wrong, I don't think it's proper ASIO output any more.

 The ASIO plugin for Foobar since version .9X just seems wrong to me. I prefer Otachan, and the only way to do that is to use older versions of Foobar and whatnot. If you are going to use Foobar2000, I recommend using the .83 version with Otachan's ASIO plugin. One weird thing about it for me, was that I had to put it in 32 bit sound play back, when ASIO should bypass that option, weird. Also was too much pain in the bum I thought for it to look the way I wanted it to, I'm a little lazy. Media Monkey still can use Otachan pain free.

 Monkey Media for now, it's easy to setup and sounds right.

 Media Monkey: MediaMonkey » Free Media Jukebox, Music Manager, CD Ripper & Converter

 It's a free mp3 player similar to WinAmp but with I think a better album management and ease of use. It adapts to numerous plugins just like Foobar2000.

 Download Media Monkey Install

 Otachan's ASIO plugin, use the (dll) versoin : WINAMP5ç”¨ ASIOå‡ºåŠ›ãƒ—ãƒ©ã‚°ã‚¤ãƒ³ (dll version) - ãŠãŸã¡ã‚ƒã‚“ã®MIDI/Audioã‚½ãƒ•ãƒˆ

 If interested the latest Mad mp3 decoder, without dithering I believe, no the .14 version: http://home.scarlet.be/khboundergrou...-0.15.1b-2.dll

 Other plugins if interested: http://home.scarlet.be/ruben.castele...MM-Plugins.htm

 Put in the plugin folder, start up Monkey, in options it's all there. Can edit the Output and Input, for gapless playback and so on. Very easy.

 If not, there is always Foobar 2000 v.83


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reason I didn't recommend Foobar2000, the newest version, something weird is going on. When you use ASIO output, the volume should be disabled. But with the newest version, the volume can't be disabled, software volume up and down. Even when the software volume is all the way up, it's softer than it should be and I think the SQ has been affected. Something seriously wrong, I don't think it's proper ASIO output any more._

 

The volume of foobar2000 0.9x at 100% is the same as foobar 0.8.3 and mediamonkey for me, did you mean volume when you said softer or that it has a soft sound? I'd agree if you mean the latter, it has a lean sound especially vs. mediamonkey.

 Why is it using software volume control is bad for ASIO? Does it decrease the # of bits used or just more processing?


----------



## mbd2884

My Foobar2000 .9x has a volume control. And when using ASIO output, ASIO4all v2 selected, the volume control can still control the volume. With Winamp and MediaMonkey, the volume control is disabled

 When using Foobar2000, yes the volume is disabled in the sound control panel for WindowsXP, so the volume control is purely software on Foobar2000's side. Something weird is going on.


----------



## Sganzerla

What's going on with those softwares and Asio? Theoretically they should sound the same (with proper configuration), right?

 Are there differences in sound quality between ASIO versions? Because I think there is something going on here.


----------



## haloxt

Some players have their own built-in volume control that can still apply because ASIO makes a more direct link between players and the compass and windows volume control gets cut out of the loop.

 Now that I think about it, I don't know why I thought keeping the player volume at 100% is better than say 10%. Is it just additional processing, or are bits lost or something? Actually I just realized, it's bad if you can control one player's volume and not be able to control the volume of many other things because then you'd blow your ears out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 so I'm not interested in finding out the answer anymore lol.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's going on with those softwares and Asio? Theoretically they should sound the same (with proper configuration), right?

 Are there differences in sound quality between ASIO versions? Because I think there is something going on here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

People are still disagreeing about whether these are better than directsound, you are really entering crazy territory when people are talking about ASIO's sounding different.


----------



## thelsuman

Bravo Curra! That was a really nice summary for us newbies


----------



## thelsuman

Man - I can't wait to try the Compass! Just picked up some used Senn HD650's w Cardas cable..for $220!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now, I have to decide which HPs to keep...the 650's or the Grado 325i's


----------



## dBs

Well if you decide to dump the 650s Ill buy them from ya for $230 =D make $10 profit!


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I noticed the Dial on the front panel that goes from USB to Optical to Coax. So how since I have this new sound card, which has all sorts of inputs, two of which are Optical (In/Out) and then the normal plugs for surround sound speakers. Could I essentially run my 2.1 speakers (just has the one output going into the PC currently) in to the Compass and then into the sound card via Optical cable and then just have the dial set to "Opt" when I want to listen to the external speakers and then on the flipside switch it over to USB when I want to use the headphones (with obviously a USB cable going into the PC as well)?

 I am just trying to envision how I would/will wire this thing up so I can easily go from my Speakers to my headphones._

 

You might want to specify what speakers you're using or planning to use. The Compass preamp RCA output jacks can connect to active speakers, such as the Audioengine A5s. The amp does not have enough juice to power passive speakers. If you try, you will fry the Compass! That being said, Kingwa has designed a dedicated amp to pair with the Compass that can drive passive speakers, which will probably be available in the April time frame. Maybe we should start debating panel font and symbol options now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The beauty of the Compass is its flexibility and number of connectivity options. If you use USB, then you can bypass the Prelude. If you use Opt or Coax, then the Prelude comes into play. Only your ears can decide what you prefer.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The whole point behind my question was that I am just trying to figure out the best way to switch from the speakers to the headphones and how this all gets wired up. So since the Compass replaces the soundcard when I am listening to headphones, that essentially means that if I have the power off to the DAC then the sound will automatically go through my speakers, but when I have it turned on it will go through the headphones?_

 

If you are using active speakers, you need to turn on the preamp switch (default location is on the rear panel) to output the analog signal to the preamp RCA jacks. If the preamp switch is engaged, I do not believe there will be any signal to the headphone jack. Peete has a test unit with the preamp jacks and can comment. Also, depending what active speakers you may have some high-end units even have their own digital inputs. Of course, that defeats the purpose of buying the Compass and using its processing circuitry.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome writeup. I know that's going to be really useful when I try to convince my friends to buy a compass.

 One suggestion is in the "What can it do for me?" add something about the pre-amp function. Yes, this is a headphone forum, so it's not strictly relevant, but I think a post like this has a wider audience. Non-headfiers curious about the compass will stumble on to this post, and it'll help them, and Kingwa, if they know about the preamp. As we've just seen, a lot of this isn't intuitive, especially for the audio newbies at whom Compass is aimed._

 

Great job, Curra! I concur with edselfordfong that a discussion on the preamp feature of the Compass should be mentioned. As the Compass will be used near many desktop computers, there will be folks interested in having studio monitor speakers on their desks as an alternative to headphone listening. The omission of the preamp out on the 'rushed' first 18 (other than the last minute requests) was one of the reasons I did not pull the trigger on the first batch. Now that the preamp is back on the Compass, it truly is an alternative to the Zero and MORE! Also, you might want to update the thread title to include "Pre-Amp."


----------



## Joeoboe

Dat Dude,
 When i have used USB DACs in the past, upon plugging them in to the USB port and turning them on, the operating system usually finds them and makes them your default sound device. When you unplug, it usually switches back to your sound card. So just the act of turning on the Compass may do the switching you want. I am not presently using my Compass with a computer, so I can't verify that easily, but perhaps another of the "Compass 18" can.


----------



## Joeoboe

Double post


----------



## Currawong

Ok, now that Jude has fixed the blogs, I've posted the FAQ here. Please link to that, and not the post I made as the blog entry I'll update as necessary.


----------



## Aleatoris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe there is a post with how to setup media players for ASIO output for Compass, don't know where it is. But here is a simple recommendation from me for Media Monkey.

 For Compass using USB, I recommend Media Monkey. Just in case you or someone else hasn't seen.

 Reason I didn't recommend Foobar2000, the newest version, something weird is going on. When you use ASIO output, the volume should be disabled. But with the newest version, the volume can't be disabled, software volume up and down. Even when the software volume is all the way up, it's softer than it should be and I think the SQ has been affected. Something seriously wrong, I don't think it's proper ASIO output any more.

 The ASIO plugin for Foobar since version .9X just seems wrong to me. I prefer Otachan, and the only way to do that is to use older versions of Foobar and whatnot. If you are going to use Foobar2000, I recommend using the .83 version with Otachan's ASIO plugin. One weird thing about it for me, was that I had to put it in 32 bit sound play back, when ASIO should bypass that option, weird. Also was too much pain in the bum I thought for it to look the way I wanted it to, I'm a little lazy. Media Monkey still can use Otachan pain free.

 Monkey Media for now, it's easy to setup and sounds right._

 

Thanks for the tip, I'll be sure to give all my options a shot.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yep the preamp function is controlled by a toggle switch on the back panel. The idea is to switch the gain to the lowest setting (9db for final rev Compass accessible by another toggle on the back panel) and then engage the preamp/headphone toggle (to preamp out). 

 That disconnects the headphone output jack from the circuit but allows full Volume control via the front panel pot and on to the analog (preamp) L/R output RCA jacks ----> amp or whatever you have that can use that signal.

 Holy cow it's late, I better get an hour and half's sleep before the alarm goes off...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy cow it's late, I better get an hour and half's sleep before the alarm goes off...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Ugh, I dunno how people can do that. If I dont get enough sleep in a 3 day stretch (just need to meet a certain amount over that time ~12 hours), I get literally sick until I finally do go to sleep). I wish I could do the little sleep thing, but no.


----------



## senn_liu

joeoboe, any idea how the optical output from your western digital media player compares with usb output from a computer through the compass? 

 deciding between getting the media player or a cheap laptop myself.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's going on with those softwares and Asio? Theoretically they should sound the same (with proper configuration), right?

 Are there differences in sound quality between ASIO versions? Because I think there is something going on here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just compare yourself. 

 Foobar2000 .9.6.3 with their ASIO plugin using ASIO4all Drivers. Software volume control all the way up (Still think software volume, What?)

 Media Monkey 3.06 with Otachan ASIO .67 (dll) using ASIO4all Drivers. Alll volume control is disabled as it should be.

 I guarantee you will hear both volume difference, and SQ difference on the Compass. When I switch from Foobar to Monkey, I have to turn down the knob on Compass from 9 o clock to 8 o clock.

 Actually this is not the only thread to have noticed weird stuff with version 0.9.6.3 with Foobar. In the Computer Forums, I've read a few posts recommending using the older versions and even some insults thrown at Foobar programmers way in saying they are being arrogant and stubborn.

 Thanks to Haloxt, for those looking for how to setup Foobar .8.3 version here is the link: http://personales.ya.com/angel49/foobar2000_otachan/
 The reason why after this point, Foobar has different ASIO than WinAmp and Media Monkey, is because Otachan refused to update the ASIO to work with Foobar.

 I would say if I didn't know about Media Monkey, then I wouldn't be complaining about Foobar


----------



## goorackerelite

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ugh, I dunno how people can do that. If I dont get enough sleep in a 3 day stretch (just need to meet a certain amount over that time ~12 hours), I get literally sick until I finally do go to sleep). I wish I could do the little sleep thing, but no._

 

music is more nourishing than sleep


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *goorackerelite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_music is more nourishing than sleep_

 

Only music from God.


----------



## mbd2884

Drosera and others interested. I found a great website for DIY tools!

Curious Inventor - HowTo Guides, Tools, Parts and Kits for DIY'ers - Make your own technology.

 I'll be buying the helping hands which has two mini clamps, to hold wires together and the junior clamp to hold things like plugs, and other larger objects. Browsing through could easily start adding cart for too many things. But seems definitely for the hobby, beginner person, not hardcore. Supplies everything but the the DIY project itself.

 Sweet!


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_joeoboe, any idea how the optical output from your western digital media player compares with usb output from a computer through the compass? 

 deciding between getting the media player or a cheap laptop myself._

 

I have been VERY happy with the Western Digital's sound. It's interface is simple and works well... although it will never approach the flexibility of MediaMonkey or even Foobar ( both of which I like quite a bit).
 The advantages I see for the Western Digital Media player are:
 1. COMPLETELY silent... no fans at all.
 2. Plays every file I can throw at it... including Hi rez (96/24) FLAC.
 3. It only costs $100USD. 
 4. Since it uses up to 2 external USB hard drives, it is flexible AND it encourages you to keep you music library backed up... so if you main computer with all your stuff goes south, you still have all your ripped music files sitting on another hard drive.

 Also, in the past I have used USB DACs and found them limited to 16 bit 48Hz. My understanding was this was a limitation of the PCM 2xxx series of chips or perhaps Windows itself... although I know certain devices like the Benchmark use custom programmed chips that can get higher rez from USB... so I think the limitation is in the chipset. 

 The Western digital Media Player is fine playing hi rez files. 

 A few pages back, there was talk about a "buffered cd player" being the ideal platform since you eliminate all the operating system garbage and the noisy computer environment ( both audible and electrical noise). I was thinking at that time, "Gee... the Western Digital Media Player IS that device pretty much... but it eliminates the OTHER source of jitter... the cd drive!"

 Of course, there are plenty of reasons to go with a computer as a source ( flexibility and powerful processing being 2 that come to mind) and arguments can be made for every single input source, be it USB, Coax, Optical... and I am sure there are BNC proponents out there scoffing at the rest of us!
 I _can_ say that I have been VERY pleased with the results I have gotten with the Western Digital player used into the optical inputs of the Compass.


----------



## sandchak

WOW! kingwa seems to be auctioning his award winning design amp on his website - just checked.. wonder whats the specs or whats it really... well those who didnt know what he looked like.. surprise surprise.. he is quite a young man !!..


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW! kingwa seems to be auctioning his award winning design amp on his website - just checked.. wonder whats the specs or whats it really... well those who didnt know what he looked like.. surprise surprise.. he is quite a young man !!.._

 

Where on the site is that? Can you share a link?

 edit: nevermind I found it http://bbs.audio-gd.com/dispbbs.asp?...&page=1&star=1


----------



## sandchak

EDIT.. post deleted as Csroc already posted the direct link..

 Great write up on the Compass, Curra !!

 I am sure we wont be seeing Peete's continuation of review tomorrow as he will be sleeping !!.. btw, if you can let me know the make of your alarm - nothing seems to wake me up if I dont have at least 8 hours of sleep/day..


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just compare yourself. 

 Foobar2000 .9.6.3 with their ASIO plugin using ASIO4all Drivers. Software volume control all the way up (Still think software volume, What?)

 Media Monkey 3.06 with Otachan ASIO .67 (dll) using ASIO4all Drivers. Alll volume control is disabled as it should be.

 I guarantee you will hear both volume difference, and SQ difference on the Compass. When I switch from Foobar to Monkey, I have to turn down the knob on Compass from 9 o clock to 8 o clock.
 )_

 

 MBD, I tried all those software and to me they sound different - there is volume difference between Foobar and Winamp too, but more subtle. I've gone from Winamp to Foobar .9, then MediaMonkey, then Foobar .8 and come back to Winamp and Asio .67.

 Theoretically they should sound the same but it is not what is happening here with my ears (or my mind!). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If someone ask, looks like there is a little more bass with Asio .67 compared to .70 (with Winamp). This is weird.


----------



## mbd2884

Is it possible to have my link in the OP changed to, Compass info for complete Newbs. As I have detailed a lot of information that people new to audio may not know. Those of us who don't have an engineering background.


----------



## Joeoboe

For those who are interested, I have verified that on Windows 2000, XP and Vista, the act of turning on your Compass connected by USB, automatically makes it your default audio device in Windows Media Player. I am not certain if you can set Foobar or MediaMonkey to switch automatically... Output Device= Primary Sound Driver SHOULD accomplish it, but I did not try it. 
 Turning off the Compass restores the "normal" settings ( like your sound card ). You might have to stop playback to switch... but on one of my XP rigs, it switches with no delay. Vista gives you an error if you try to switch DURING playback... but as soon as you resume play, it is set to the correct device ( Compass if it is on... otherwise your normal default sound card)
 So... for those who use their regular computer speaker setup and want to know how to switch back and forth to the Compass... it pretty much does it by itself by turning the Compass on and off!


----------



## Joeoboe

You know... for some reason this site double posts stuff a lot! I try NOT to... but it seems if I post a message... it posts it twice!


----------



## haloxt

I tried it, it works if you set compass as default, then turn it off, it will resort to the previous default choice.

 The browser resends it again if it takes too long, only happened to me once though


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who are interested, I have verified that on Windows 2000, XP and Vista, the act of turning on your Compass connected by USB, automatically makes it your default audio device in Windows Media Player. I am not certain if you can set Foobar or MediaMonkey to switch automatically... Output Device= Primary Sound Driver SHOULD accomplish it, but I did not try it. _

 

I agree with you Joe, this was a problem I was facing earlier with XP loaded in my PC, but then I went to bios and disabled the motherboard sound device, and set the output devise in foobar as asio, that sorted the entire issue.. but then with it went all the windows sound (which actually I dont need..)..


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who are interested, I have verified that on Windows 2000, XP and Vista, the act of turning on your Compass connected by USB, automatically makes it your default audio device in Windows Media Player. I am not certain if you can set Foobar or MediaMonkey to switch automatically... Output Device= Primary Sound Driver SHOULD accomplish it, but I did not try it. 
 Turning off the Compass restores the "normal" settings ( like your sound card ). You might have to stop playback to switch... but on one of my XP rigs, it switches with no delay. Vista gives you an error if you try to switch DURING playback... but as soon as you resume play, it is set to the correct device ( Compass if it is on... otherwise your normal default sound card)
 So... for those who use their regular computer speaker setup and want to know how to switch back and forth to the Compass... it pretty much does it by itself by turning the Compass on and off!_

 

With Media Monkey, the ASIO output takes over. So as soon as you play music, you it will appear in ASIO in the taskbar, and just check off what you want.

 Foobar is annoying, you have to go into preferences, edit, and map the channels. Doesn't take long, but the annoyance factor is high. I can verify Foobar does not do this automatically as I use my laptop at work and use the onboard soundcard there. So I have to remap the channels twice a day, work for soundcard, home for Compass. Media Monkey FTW?


----------



## winzzz

guys...soundwise whats the difference between the OPA earth,moon and sun ? thx


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *winzzz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys...soundwise whats the difference between the OPA earth,moon and sun ? thx_

 

I personally found Earth to be more neutral, and go well with whatever genres of music I heard, moon gave me a slightly laid back reproduction, soft and maybe more musical, I found this excel in specially vocals with a slightly bigger sound stage than earth. Sun V2 with evox caps sounded more lively, more dynamic and heavy in both bass and treble..
 But please note that these were my personal observations, with my listening gear, taste and ears.. it will vary from people to people.. so unless you try yourself, it will be hard to say what will suit your taste most..

 PS I said sun v2 with evox caps because thats the standard version, but I have heard that with solen caps the treble can be tamed to an extent..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where on the site is that? Can you share a link?

 edit: nevermind I found it 2007ÄêNS¹¦·ÅÉè¼Æ´óÈüµÃ½±Ô*°æ»úÅÄÂô[ºÎÇì»ªDIY¼¼ÊõÂÛÌ³]_

 

With the work load he takes on I'm not surprised he's much younger than some of us here.

 I have a feeling he'll be honored with more awards as the future unfolds.

 Congratulations Kingwa, you certainly deserve the recognition for your tireless dedication to sound quality first, everything else second.

 Peete.


----------



## D.C.

x2 Kingwa you are a G


----------



## D.C.

guys i know in theory ASIO should sound better than the windows drivers but is the difference really that big in your experience...sorry have no way of testing for myself, not yet


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys i know in theory ASIO should sound better than the windows drivers but is the difference really that big in your experience...sorry have no way of testing for myself, not yet
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, it's not really a veil that's removed, more like a velvet curtain. YMMV, of course. Everyone's ears are different.


----------



## mbd2884

I'd say the difference for me was changing headphones. The change is very noticeable.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the work load he takes on I'm not surprised he's much younger than some of us here.

 I have a feeling he'll be honored with more awards as the future unfolds.

 Congratulations Kingwa, you certainly deserve the recognition for your tireless dedication to sound quality first, everything else second.

 Peete._

 

Yup he looks very young, which means.... a lot more audio-gd products for a long time


----------



## B00MERS00NER

I sent an email to Kingwa asking about the status of the next shipment, he responded in a flash, as usual, and stated that they are still doing burn in and ship out on the 8th - Ha just like Drosera said, be looking for the "just got email confirming shipment - OMG can't wait for it to get here already"


----------



## idunno

Yeah, all those excited posts will be painful for me, as I've decided to wait for Kingwa to change my front panel switch to preamp. I could do the the work myself, but don't feel like messing around with it.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sent an email to Kingwa asking about the status of the next shipment, he responded in a flash, as usual, and stated that they are still doing burn in and ship out on the 8th - Ha just like Drosera said, be looking for the "just got email confirming shipment - OMG can't wait for it to get here already"_

 

Oh God, then I shouldn't tell you what I'm awaiting! I think I'll just take pictures when everything arrives.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh God, then I shouldn't tell you what I'm awaiting! I think I'll just take pictures when everything arrives._

 

Me Too.. my 50KG package is supposed to be shipped on the 10th !!...


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sent an email to Kingwa asking about the status of the next shipment, he responded in a flash, as usual, and stated that they are still doing burn in and ship out on the 8th - Ha just like Drosera said, be looking for the "just got email confirming shipment - OMG can't wait for it to get here already"_

 

Oh nice, it's about time. I was about to e-mail him again today but I guess there's no need anymore.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me Too.. my 50KG package is supposed to be shipped on the 10th !!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I really don't want to know what the shipping costs for that might be! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Starting on their journey to Germany, the UK, Turkey and from there on to who knows where.


----------



## csroc

A brief trip around the moon perhaps.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really don't want to know what the shipping costs for that might be! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Starting on their journey to Germany, the UK, Turkey and from there on to who knows where. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well I only hope this time it passes through Netherlands too, because everything that comes from there sure gets a VIP treatment and very much well looked after-ed!!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 A brief trip around the moon perhaps. 
 

Yeah, in any case I am sure its gonna sound out of the world !!..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I only hope this time it passes through Netherlands too, because everything that comes from there sure gets a VIP treatment and very much well looked after-ed!!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hm, I could make some very anti-nationalistic historical references here...but I won't.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm, I could make some very anti-nationalistic historical references here...but I won't. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Historical references .. hmm.. is it older than the Sextetts??..


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh God, then I shouldn't tell you what I'm awaiting! I think I'll just take pictures when everything arrives._

 

What are you awaiting? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me Too.. my 50KG package is supposed to be shipped on the 10th !!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmmmmm I haven't received my tracking number yet


----------



## WC Annihilus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmmmm I haven't received my tracking number yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's cause they haven't been shipped yet


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WC Annihilus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's cause they haven't been shipped yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was told via email that my C2C was going to ship yesterday.


----------



## Haoting

Just wondering if you Compass fans know that there is something that could rival the Compass called the Dussun T2i that has been out for quite awhile. I've started a new thread regarding the Dussun T2i in the Computer Audio section and I'm asking the head-fi community what their impressions are about Dussun products, especially the Dussun T2i.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me Too.. my 50KG package is supposed to be shipped on the 10th !!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ouch. I'm sure the delivery person is going to have a fun time climbing up to the fifth floor to deliver mine. No elevators in this building. If I took a picture of the stacks of flattened cardboard boxes from gear we've had delivered in the last year though...I don't want to think about that. I have to rebuild the table I have my head-fi gear on though to accommodate the Ref 1 though. It's a DIY unit with different length poles that can go between the shelves.


----------



## sandchak

] Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Haoting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering if you Compass fans know that there is something that could rival the Compass called the Dussun T2i that has been out for quite awhile. I've started a new thread regarding the Dussun T2i in the Computer Audio section and I'm asking the head-fi community what their impressions are about Dussun products, especially the Dussun T2i._

 

Thats good news, but have you done a side by side comparison??.. maybe you can tell us more..

  Quote:


 Ouch. I'm sure the delivery person is going to have a fun time climbing up to the fifth floor to deliver mine. No elevators in this building. If I took a picture of the stacks of flattened cardboard boxes from gear we've had delivered in the last year though...I don't want to think about that. I have to rebuild the table I have my head-fi gear on though to accommodate the Ref 1 though. It's a DIY unit with different length poles that can go between the shelves. 
 

Yeah its going to be a little ouch affair, given that the elevator we have in our old Russian apartment barely fits one person and clearly says a max limit of 120KG, which means its either the package or he or me all the way to the top floor!!.. so it practically means no elevator for me either... plus the amp itself weighs around 35 kgs which is actually more the total weight of my entire current system including speakers - so like I am looking for a good tree in the neighborhood a build a rack ! to be very honest it did come to my mind a couple of times that maybe I am punishing myself by buying the amp + DAC....


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Haoting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering if you Compass fans know that there is something that could rival the Compass called the Dussun T2i that has been out for quite awhile. I've started a new thread regarding the Dussun T2i in the Computer Audio section and I'm asking the head-fi community what their impressions are about Dussun products, especially the Dussun T2i._

 

The Dussun T2i costs 800$ and it's probably a speaker amp first (not especially made with headphones in mind). I don't know how it compares to it, but it's definitely a different price bracket and a different consumer audience.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Haoting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering if you Compass fans know that there is something that could rival the Compass called the Dussun T2i that has been out for quite awhile. I've started a new thread regarding the Dussun T2i in the Computer Audio section and I'm asking the head-fi community what their impressions are about Dussun products, especially the Dussun T2i._

 

Very interesting. I checked the thread you mentioned and pardon me if I'm wrong but at $800 price tag, wouldn't it be in a different league with the $250-ish Compass? 

 It also would be helpful if you can provide us with review links or anything as it's the first time I see this company.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Dussun T2i costs 800$ and it's probably a speaker amp first (not especially made with headphones in mind). I don't know how it compares to it, but it's definitely a different price bracket and a different consumer audience._

 

No actually he is saying it goes for around USD300 in China - thats if I read him correctly..

  Quote:


 I know Mark Levinson's company called Red Rose Music sells rebadged Dussun amplifiers between $3,000 - $7,000. That's almost 10 times the price what Dussun sells them for in China! *As for the Dussun T2i amplifier/USB DAC, it sells for $800 at aaa-audio.com. They go for a bit more than USD $300 in China.*


----------



## haloxt

Audio-GD's website wants us to compare their products with those costing 5 times as much.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audio-GD's website wants us to compare their products with those costing 5 times as much._

 

If you are talking in literal terms, then its closer to 2-3 times because he says to compare with prices of overseas goods in China, which can be around even 40% more (due to high import duties) than the International market..


----------



## Haoting

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very interesting. I checked the thread you mentioned and pardon me if I'm wrong but at $800 price tag, wouldn't it be in a different league with the $250-ish Compass? 

 It also would be helpful if you can provide us with review links or anything as it's the first time I see this company._

 

The Dussun T2i is being sold for USD $399 + 99 shipping on eBay. I'm not an expert in the hi-fi or head-fi world, but I recently discovered Dussun just surfing the internet concerning highly regarded Chinese hi-fi companies, and the link below is what I came up with:

A Look Inside the Chinese Audio Industry | AV Guide

 One of the companies spotlighted is Dussun.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audio-GD's website wants us to compare their products with those costing 5 times as much._

 

Previously in this thread, there was much discussion of comparing the Compass to products from other company's. Unless someone does an actual comparison, the discussion is rather pointless. You will find, here, if you read a lot, a great many interesting products from around the world that might compete with the Compass, not to mention from quite a few major sponsors of Head-fi. I'm not sure that it isn't somewhat rude to hijack this thread with the discussion as well.


----------



## haloxt

I was simply replying to people saying it's silly to compare the compass with things not in the same price bracket. As for comparisons, I'm not one of the people who asked how does the compass compare with product a b c d e f and g. Actual comparisons will come later and I'm fully aware of that.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Haoting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Dussun T2i is being sold for USD $399 + 99 shipping on eBay. I'm not an expert in the hi-fi or head-fi world, but I recently discovered Dussun just surfing the internet concerning highly regarded Chinese hi-fi companies, and the link below is what I came up with:

A Look Inside the Chinese Audio Industry | AV Guide

 One of the companies spotlighted is Dussun._

 

Although it's nice, an actual review of the T2i or perhaps related products from Dussun would be more helpful. Thanks anyway.


----------



## mbd2884

Also noticed all your posts have been about this Dusson and you just registered. Coincidence? Also checked a thread started by you and Les_garten also came to the same conclusion.

 Compare it to my review which goes in decent detail of how the Compass is constructed and sounds

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5442981-post3016.html

 Considering if you are going to use the Dusson for headphones and its an integrated Amp vs the Compass, a headphone amp, it's a no brainer. And just what parts and how they all fit together in the Compass. Read my impressions and you'll see what I'm getting at.

 From what I've gathered so far, the Dusson DAC isn't as well thought out as in the Compass. It's integrated amp is of IC design whearas the Compass is fully 100% true discrete output from both DAC and Amp. Mainly, it's an integrated amp vs headphone amp, and the DAC looks to me an addition, where the DAC in Compass is a complete DAC.

 If you need an integrated amp for speakers and headphones, Dusson better option. Just headphones, Compass the better option. This is from just doing some quick research, and since there has been zero comparisons, can't say for sound. Good luck


----------



## mbd2884

Hey, I know many have asked about the Purity Audio KICAS. 

 Awesome review from Skylab, KICAS sounds like an excellent deal if you choose to go that way: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...-kicas-329643/

 Purity Audio KICAS like Audio-gd Compass is also a Fully Discrete Class A Amplifier. Here are the PCB side by side. Interesting to look at the design differences.

 Simple big differences. Audio-gd Compass uses the Alps RK27 Blue Velvet Pot, Neutrik 1/4" locking jack. Dedicated 50w Toroidal power source, KICAS uses a WallWart. Skylab said, KICAS sounded so good, he looked over the WallWart. Maybe someone can verify, but the Compass looks like it uses higher quality parts though. Love to hear a comparison of these two together. KICAS normal, not the Caliente though witha Compass Neutral settings. That would be the best and fair comparison IMO. The difference of having HI-FI enthusiasts working in China vs Canada seems quite evident to me. Darn gotta ask Skylab to do a Comparison. I'll ask him again.

 Or maybe Peete, you can ask to get a KICAS demo to review? You are in Canada, drive over to their lab, haha!

*KICAS*







*Compass*


----------



## K3cT

Fortunately the internal doesn't make an amp eh? Millet SS and Mini^3 both have simple layouts and components but they sound hella good. 

 Although based on the impressions around here, the KICAS and Compass seem to sound very different with the KICAS more to the mellow and musical side while the Compass is more transparent and detailed.


----------



## mbd2884

Kingwa did say his intention was to create the most neutral sounding DAC/Amp combo in it's price range possible.

 But since the KICAS and the Compass were both designed using the HD650, there both being Class A SS discrete amps, there has to be some similarities. 

 Skylab just said he can make time to review the Compass, but as most of you know, his KICAS was stolen, but his memory still seems good about the KICAS. I'll email Kingwa about sending Skylab a Compass. But won't review mine as he doesn't want to be pressured for time, oh well. So it's up to Audio-gd for that review, unless one of you muffins decide to get a KICAS, or Peete raids Purity Audio's lab.


----------



## csroc

Haha so you did jump on the HD650 then. You'll like them I think, but they are very different from the AD900. Welcome to the AD900/HD650 club!

 How did Skylab's KICAS get stolen? Theft of a headphone amp seems pretty bizarre to me, such an obscure product category.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha so you did jump on the HD650 then. You'll like them I think, but they are very different from the AD900. Welcome to the AD900/HD650 club!

 How did Skylab's KICAS get stolen? Theft of a headphone amp seems pretty bizarre to me, such an obscure product category._

 

Yeah will be hearing the Sennheiser sound this weekend, thanks for your impressions btw.

 Skylab had lent his KICAS to a fellow Head-Fier, and was never returned.


----------



## csroc

Ouch, I did not realize it was stolen in that manner. That really sucks


----------



## K3cT

Oh wow, that gotta leave a very bad aftertaste. I mean you folks sound like decent people but who knows how a nice little amp arriving for a 'review' can twist a person's mind. I hope that thief gets his karma. 

 And if the Compass sounds like as what I think it is, it will be the first amp of mine that sounds that way. I wonder how it'll compare with my now-gone Zero which sounded musical and smooth.


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want to play games, even with headphones use the soundcard because the Compass can't process any of the new 3D DSP crud that some games use. Is it a possible to use the Compass while gaming, with games like Warhammer 40K and TF2, yes. But if you plan on playing competitive CS 1.6, nope, use the soundcard, or I recommend using the soundcard.
_

 

What ? I've heard reports from people using x-fi / prelude cards and the zero dac that cmss3d and EAX work in games just fine using the coaxial output, what's different about compass ?


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What ? I've heard reports from people using x-fi / prelude cards and the zero dac that cmss3d and EAX work in games just fine using the coaxial output, what's different about compass ?_

 

There is none. They are using the X-Fi into the Zero, X-Fi has already processed that crud before entering the Zero. Go read some more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EAX was for long time only supported by Creative, any other soundcard uses it has to license the technology. Yeah, Zero definitely not EAX compatible.


----------



## haloxt

The soundcard just does the EAX processing and outputs it digitally into the zero or compass. Overkill to just use a sound card for its EAX support though, its just sum software


----------



## mbd2884

Soundcards do a lot more than that. The new X-Fi series allows the sound processing to happen off of the CPU and opens up resources for better performance. It's made for gaming, games are made to use them, use them if you are going to be a hardcore gamer. The Compass and others were made for listening to music and decoding mp3s, CDs and so on.


----------



## haloxt

What SoFGR is saying is that you can put the digital output with EAX from the soundcard into the compass, thereby combining the convenient software of the soundcard with the nice sound quality of the compass dac/amp.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Haoting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering if you Compass fans know that there is something that could rival the Compass called the Dussun T2i that has been out for quite awhile. I've started a new thread regarding the Dussun T2i in the Computer Audio section and I'm asking the head-fi community what their impressions are about Dussun products, especially the Dussun T2i._

 

I've read all of your 9 posts. I honestly find it hard to believe that you are not associated with Dussun. I also think you'll have a hard time convincing most people here that you are not a company shill. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good luck promoting your product


----------



## Canuck57

Question for the Canadians here that have purchased Audio-GD products. Did you get charged for brokerage/PST/GST?


----------



## Aleatoris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Canuck57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question for the Canadians here that have purchased Audio-GD products. Did you get charged for brokerage/PST/GST?_

 

Hi ho, neighbour. Most companies without a Canadian website will not charge GST or PST. When I ordered my compass, they did charge an extra 4% for Paypal's services. Hope that helps!


----------



## mbd2884

Peete, one of the original 18 and a reviewer is in Canada, wait for his answer


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was simply replying to people saying it's silly to compare the compass with things not in the same price bracket. As for comparisons, I'm not one of the people who asked how does the compass compare with product a b c d e f and g. Actual comparisons will come later and I'm fully aware of that._

 

I have to apologise here, my reply was directed at Haoting, not you.


----------



## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Anyone know when the first batch will ship?

 Biggie.


----------



## mbd2884

First batch been out for a while, 18 test units.

 30 upgraded versions for Internaional already sold out and will be shipped soon. The others he reserved for local Chinese sales.

 The Final version, he said, he will have more units to sell and ship end of March.

 Audio-gd keeps their website well updated, you should check it frequently, he will post on his website when more units are available.

 You can pre-order though, customer service is great, any questions you have, will be answered promptly during their business hours, remember they are in China.


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aleatoris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi ho, neighbour. Most companies without a Canadian website will not charge GST or PST. When I ordered my compass, they did charge an extra 4% for Paypal's services. Hope that helps!_

 

Audio-GD wouldn't charge the GST/PST, it's supposed to be charged when it's received in Canada by Canada Post along with their brokerage charge (minimal), GST, PST, and possibly duty, since it's manufactured in China.

 However, often that doesn't happen, just wonder if anyone has actually bought/imported a product from Audio-GD and if they incurred brokerage, duty, GST, PST.


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete, one of the original 18 and a reviewer is in Canada, wait for his answer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, I'll watch for his response...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NotoriousBIG_PJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know when the first batch will ship?

 Biggie._

 

When I asked him yesterday, when he would ship my amp ++, he said he would do it together with the shipping of Compass - between Monday (9th) and Thursday (12th), he plans to ship the new batch of Compass in 2 batches - 220volt and 120 volt separately, so that just in case the courier mistakenly sends Mr X's parcel to Mr. Y, the compass will still work.


----------



## haloxt

Thanks much for relaying your communications with Kingwa with us, you always have interesting info sandchak.


----------



## mbd2884

Kingwa is going to contact Skylab to send him a test unit for review!

 For those wondering about a comparison of amp to KICAS, well your complaints can stop, hooray!


----------



## winzzz

wow nice can't wait for the compass review by skylab


----------



## Jkinsey

Can anyone provide impressions of the K701 and the Compass? 

 In particular, I'm curious if the Compass improves the K701's bass without losing it's detail/instrument separation, shrinking the soundstage or rolling off the highs. How would you describe the sound of the k701/Compass combo?

 Thank you!


----------



## Aleatoris

...now that my wallet's empty, I'm counting the days until my Compass arrives. I hope I don't... pass... out....


----------



## Jkinsey

Thanks guys! I'm glad to hear from a few other posters. 
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jkinsey: congrats! you've run afoul of this thread's most notorious denizen...

 if you enjoy his rantings, fine. if not, ignore him. whatever you do, do not attempt to reason with him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Joeoboe and Sganzerla are the only members of the Compass-18 I recall writing about the K701, further reviews will take time; I would expect that some of the second-gen 30 will have said cans._

 

Thank you for the extra info! I will be looking forward to hearing more impressions from the new owners.


----------



## idunno

Doh! of course, the 30 are Compass: The Next Generation
 lol!
 um... is there a dorky smilie? or is that implied?


----------



## Hottuna_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aleatoris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...now that my wallet's empty, I'm counting the days until my Compass arrives. I hope I don't... pass... out...._

 

LOL
 That sounds pretty dangerous.
 Are you forgoing food and drink to be able to afford the Compass?

 I on the other hand am waiting for impressions from the lucky 30 who are getting the upgraded version before putting in my order...
 That is if i can hold out...


----------



## Sganzerla

Jkinsey,

 You need to say compared to what gear. I hope we see Skylab's review soon because many people are interested on how the amp section of Compass compare to other options.

 With my little experience I can say I found myself thrilled many times while listening to this combo. My Moon has 300 hours on it, and Earth almost 400 - looks like they are not fully burnt yet.

 I like Moon with my Compass, as it gives wider soundstage and in many songs it brings you in the middle of it, and of course because it sounds softer than Earth too. I think there is more detail, but something related to "things" that are in background and are harder to observe. I think its placement of instruments isn't as good as my Earth is right now.

 Going to Earth you easily notice the sound comes more from the middle, voices are more natural and there is better dynamics. Sounds a little harsh (more sibilance?) and much faster. I think people use the term PRAT to describe this difference in speed and rhytm, don't really know how to translate this to English.

 Moon makes things flow and Earth makes you listen. With both bass is MUCH BETTER than it was with my Zero without upgraded amp section. Unfortunately this is all I got to compare to (and the stock crap motherboard sound card).

 Well recorded live music sounds GREAT to me with both.

 I say all this believing it will get even better with time because my Earth is going soft every day I listen to it and Moon began the instrument separation only in the last 100/50 hours. Untill that I hated its sound compared to my Earth with 300 hours.

 With my father's HD580, in brief listen I had, bass sounded less detailed than with K701 and the difference in intensity from what I remember with Zero, that was BIG, now is much less.

 After more 200/300 hours on both HDAMs I'll place my "review" about what happened during all this time. It will not be impressive or the most valuable but will be sincere.


----------



## winzzz

what about sun HDAM sganzerla ? have u heard it ? thx


----------



## Jkinsey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jkinsey,

 You need to say compared to what gear. I hope we see Skylab's review soon because many people are interested on how the amp section of Compass compare to other options.
_

 

Sorry, I should have pointed out that I am currently listening to my K701 unamped out of my Zune 80. The sound is actually almost perfect for me; I love the fast sound, large soundstage, and extended highs that make cymbals sound magical. I just need a little more weight on the bottom end and slightly better instrument separation which I think a powerful amp with the right properties might add. The Earth sounds like it might do this, but I'm not sure if I could adjust to the loss of soundstage if it is significant. Do the HDAM's stabilize after 300 hours or do they continue to change? I'm not sure if I would be satisfied if the sound still changed continuously after that.

 Thank you so much for taking the time to post your impressions!


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jkinsey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone provide impressions of the K701 and the Compass? 

 In particular, I'm curious if the Compass improves the K701's bass without losing it's detail/instrument separation, shrinking the soundstage or rolling off the highs. How would you describe the sound of the k701/Compass combo?

 Thank you!_

 

Well going back to your original question.........

 I think the review being pointed out by mbd adequately and sufficiently answers the questions regarding the K701 and the compass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have the K701. Stocked and unamped out of an ipod, the K701 is uninspiring. I can't even appreciate the bass. The soundstage is congested, very little instrument separation, the highs become tizzy. 

 Compare my impressions above with that of Joeoboe's review and you'll get the answers to your questions. Yes the compass will* improve* your listening session with the K701, as the K701 is not meant to be used unamped. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In all honesty, the K701 will improve with most amps, but it will synergize more with some amps, and reject the rest. I find that it is a very tricky headphone to pair an amp with. I tried it with a LD MKIII, didn't like it. I've tried the K701 with a Beta 22 (loved it) and the soundstage as I remembered became cavernous and massive, Im guessing the compass amp can scale the K701 to some extent, as described in the review


----------



## sandchak

My personal thought about 701, as I once owned them and used them both with ZERO and Shanling PH100, I never found either of the amp give them big bass, unless you EQ them. With the ZERO it sounded big only because it was flabby and extended, while the Shanling made it tighter and gave it good shape - Yes the Shanling also drove them well.. I know this has nothing to do with Compass or how 701 would sound with it, in my opinion this might be the inherent quality of 701.. but it is my personal feeling that with Compass it would be the same effect as Shanling, better or worse I wouldn't be able to say..


----------



## Sganzerla

I could bet some serious money that going Zune80>Compass will make you don't believe what you're hearing (maybe make you cry) if you're already satisfied with your K701. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The difference from my soundcard to Zero was big, and Zero to Compass was even bigger, much more bass, details, soundstage, etc...

 Moon has larger soundstage *than* Earth, and both with Compass should be a major improvement from what you're using right now.

 Some people say burn in is placebo but I think the sound is changing yet, in a good way - so you don't have to worry.

 winzzz, I had no opportunity to test Sun yet, but there are people here who tried both v1 and v2, it is buried somewhere. From what I know it has characteristics that I really don't want with my K701.


----------



## mbd2884

Maj actually has done a complete comparison of all Audio-gd HDAMs in great detail. He has even gone further to compare them to Burr Brown OpAmps and so on. Yes, there are lots of comparisons in this forum, not just in this thread.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/aud...-v-2-a-397691/


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Canuck57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question for the Canadians here that have purchased Audio-GD products. Did you get charged for brokerage/PST/GST?_

 

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. 

 It's all up to chance I think.

 Peete.


----------



## winzzz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maj actually has done a complete comparison of all Audio-gd HDAMs in great detail. He has even gone further to compare them to Burr Brown OpAmps and so on. Yes, there are lots of comparisons in this forum, not just in this thread.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/aud...-v-2-a-397691/_

 

thx alot mbd...


----------



## Jkinsey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well going back to your original question.........

 I think the review being pointed out by mbd adequately and sufficiently answers the questions regarding the K701 and the compass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have the K701. Stocked and unamped out of an ipod, the K701 is uninspiring. I can't even appreciate the bass. The soundstage is congested, very little instrument separation, the highs become tizzy. 

 Compare my impressions above with that of Joeoboe's review and you'll get the answers to your questions. Yes the compass will* improve* your listening session with the K701, as the K701 is not meant to be used unamped. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The internal amp of the Zune 80 is actually pretty impressive. Bass with the k701 has a lot of impact and I can drive the sound to an uncomfortable level. Hearing them out of my Zune 80, I actually have trouble believing that people consider the k701 bass-shy. Only the low bass is a little thin. Otherwise it's nearly perfect. From what I've read the iPods internal amp isn't nearly as good, so I would expect it to sound unimpressive.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jkinsey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The internal amp of the Zune 80 is actually pretty impressive. Bass with the k701 has a lot of impact and I can drive the sound to an uncomfortable level. Hearing them out of my Zune 80, I actually have trouble believing that people consider the k701 bass-shy. Only the low bass is a little thin. Otherwise it's nearly perfect. From what I've read the iPods internal amp isn't nearly as good, so I would expect it to sound unimpressive._

 

Zune 80 driving 701 to uncomfortable level, does not always mean it is driving it well, it can also mean actually the amp in Zune is beginning to clip and a lot of distortion adds in giving the bassy feeling.. just my personal impressions because I found 701 really a difficult HP to drive and drive cleanly..


----------



## Jkinsey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Zune 80 driving 701 to uncomfortable level, does not always mean it is driving it well, it can also mean actually the amp in Zune is beginning to clip and a lot of distortion adds in giving the bassy feeling.. just my personal impressions because I found 701 really a difficult HP to drive and drive cleanly.._

 


 I don't notice any clipping. I just meant it can be driven very loud,; louder than I care to listen. All frequencies raise proportionally with increased volume and I only hear bass when it is present in the recording.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jkinsey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't notice any clipping. I just meant it can be driven very loud,; louder than I care to listen. All frequencies raise proportionally with increased volume and I only hear bass when it is present in the recording._

 

Then I have to say my assumption was wrong, because you are the one listening.. it was a little hard for me to believe that Zune 80 could drive a beast like 701 well.. but then anythings possible !!..


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jkinsey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The internal amp of the Zune 80 is actually pretty impressive. Bass with the k701 has a lot of impact and I can drive the sound to an uncomfortable level. Hearing them out of my Zune 80, I actually have trouble believing that people consider the k701 bass-shy. Only the low bass is a little thin. Otherwise it's nearly perfect. From what I've read the iPods internal amp isn't nearly as good, so I would expect it to sound unimpressive._

 

x2 on what Sandchak said. Getting the K701 loud doesn't mean it is being driven properly. 

 But if you feel that the zune is already adequate for you, then don't get an amp. From your post, what I am getting is the zune's amp is better than the ipod's hp out from what you've *read*. Maybe you should compare. 

 I have not heard the zune 80 so I can't really comment on it.

 I think I already said enough about the K701 and I stand by what I said that the K701 is a headphone that should be amped, according to my ears. So YMMV 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Actually you are lucky, you are happy with K701 as is. Your wallet is probably very happy too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And btw the K701 is bass shy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Compare it to a Sennheiser HD650 or a Denon D5000 and you'll hear what I mean


----------



## Jkinsey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2 on what Sandchak said. Getting the K701 loud doesn't mean it is being driven properly. 

 But if you feel that the zune is already adequate for you, then don't get an amp. From your post, what I am getting is the zune's amp is better than the ipod's hp out from what you've *read*. Maybe you should compare. 

 I have not heard the zune 80 so I can't really comment on it.

 I think I already said enough about the K701 and I stand by what I said that the K701 is a headphone that should be amped, according to my ears. So YMMV 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually you are lucky, you are happy with K701 as is. Your wallet is probably very happy too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And btw the K701 is bass shy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Compare it to a Sennheiser HD650 or a Denon D5000 and you'll hear what I mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Actually I recently auditioned a TC-7520 dac/amp and the sound is too dark for me. The soundstage actually got smaller and the highs rolled off compared to my zune; but the low bass does pick up a little more weight amped. Hence the specificity of the questions I asked about the Compass. There are many reviews which establish the zune sound quality as being superior to that of the ipod. Though I haven't made the comparison with my k701, I have with lesser earphones and the zune has a warmer, fuller sound than the ipod. 

 Also, I have the AD900s which are supposedly the best unamped headphones. There are many songs where I prefer the sound of the unamped k701s to that of the unamped AD900 through my zune. The cymbals in the first 30 seconds of Psalms from John Coltrane's Love Supreme album have this magical quality that I can only hear in my Zune > K701 combination so far, that is lost when I switch phones or use the amp, or switch directly to my laptop out. However, i do sense that there is room for improvement in detail and background sound seperation and low bass which a more synergistic amp might bring out. Hence my interest in the Compass.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jkinsey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually I recently auditioned a TC-7520 dac/amp and the sound is too dark for me. The soundstage actually got smaller and the highs rolled off compared to my zune; but the low bass does pick up a little more weight amped. Hence the specificity of the questions I asked about the Compass. There are many reviews which establish the zune sound quality as being superior to that of the ipod. Though I haven't made the comparison with my k701, I have with lesser earphones and the zune has a warmer, fuller sound than the ipod. 

 Also, I have the AD900s which are supposedly the best unamped headphones. There are many songs where I prefer the sound of the unamped k701s to that of the unamped AD900 through my zune. The cymbals in the first 30 seconds of Psalms from John Coltrane's Love Supreme album have this magical quality that I can only hear in my Zune > K701 combination so far, that is lost when I switch phones or use the amp, or switch directly to my laptop out. However, i do sense that there is room for improvement in detail and background sound seperation and low bass which a more synergistic amp might bring out. Hence my interest in the Compass._

 

Ah, from my very limited experience, the only amp that really opened up the K701 was a beta 22. Im hoping the Audio-GD C2C could at least approximate 80% of that and I'll be happy. Among the headphones I currently own, the K701 is hardest one for me to find synergy with an amp. I didn't like it even with a Gilmore Lite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But from the K701/compass review, I think the compass amp did a good job. Anyway, again let me say this, and I am not being sarcastic, if you are happy already with the Zune/K701 combo, stop right there for the meantime 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 ...................








 and save your money for a beta22 or equivalent audio-gd amp when it becomes available


----------



## Jkinsey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, from my very limited experience, the only amp that really opened up the K701 was a beta 22. Im hoping the Audio-GD C2C could at least approximate 80% of that and I'll be happy. Among the headphones I currently own, the K701 is hardest one for me to find synergy with an amp. I didn't like it even with a Gilmore Lite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But from the K701/compass review, I think the compass amp did a good job. Anyway, again let me say this, and I am not being sarcastic, if you are happy already with the Zune/K701 combo, stop right there for the meantime 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 ...................








 and save your money for a beta22 or equivalent audio-gd amp when it becomes available 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haha, well, I was crossing my fingers that the Compass could deliver the sound I am after, since I'm not sure if I want to drop more than another $500 into finding it. Hopefully, a few of the 30 new owners will be able to shed more light on this. I might look into the beta 22, but apparently it is a DIY and I'm not very handy with electronics. Plus then I would have to buy a separate dac to use it with my laptop. I have to say though, I have yet to hear a source that made the k701 sound bad to my ears, just different sound signatures depending on the source.


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sometimes yes, sometimes no. 

 It's all up to chance I think.

 Peete._

 

Yeah...figured as much...thanks Pete


----------



## tyrion

Keep this thread on topic or it will be closed. No more personal attacks.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tyrion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Keep this thread on topic or it will be closed. No more personal attacks._

 

Since you've already stepped in, Im sure the people in this thread will behave as no one wants this thread closed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 --------------------

 Just noticed that the prices for the 3 new DACs and the compass are in the pricelist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Im just curious, did anyone bid on the original amplifier which was the First Prize winner of the American National Semiconductor Audio Design Contest advertised in Audio-GD's index page?


----------



## Currawong

My experience with the K701 was that the soundstage you hear with it (and the HD-600s) is directly proportional to the quality of the source and amp.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My experience with the K701 was that the soundstage you hear with it (and the HD-600s) is directly proportional to the quality of the source and amp._

 

I personally found the 701 soundstage shrink with Shanling PH100, compared to Zero.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe its the ZERO DAC that made it wider, because I was using the Shanling with NAD C541i CD player.. or ZERO has a better HP amp than Shanling PH100 - to me it is quite improbable..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could bet some serious money that going Zune80>Compass will make you don't believe what you're hearing (maybe make you cry) if you're already satisfied with your K701. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The difference from my soundcard to Zero was big, and Zero to Compass was even bigger, much more bass, details, soundstage, etc...

 Moon has larger soundstage *than* Earth, and both with Compass should be a major improvement from what you're using right now.

 Some people say burn in is placebo but I think the sound is changing yet, in a good way - so you don't have to worry.

 winzzz, I had no opportunity to test Sun yet, but there are people here who tried both v1 and v2, it is buried somewhere. From what I know it has characteristics that I really don't want with my K701. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's interesting. I sometimes regret not having my K701s still as they were great for gauging the ability of sources and amps in this way.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, from my very limited experience, the only amp that really opened up the K701 was a beta 22. Im hoping the Audio-GD C2C could at least approximate 80% of that and I'll be happy. Among the headphones I currently own, the K701 is hardest one for me to find synergy with an amp. I didn't like it even with a Gilmore Lite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's probably the result of your source, not the amp. I had a similar issue with the Little Dot MKV and the K701s, and it was my Apogee Duet being too analytical and not musical enough.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I personally found the 701 soundstage shrink with Shanling PH100, compared to Zero.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe its the ZERO DAC that made it wider, because I was using the Shanling with NAD C541i CD player.. or ZERO has a better HP amp than Shanling PH100 - to me it is quite improbable.._

 

How about the Zero as the source to your Shanling? Or didn't you compare?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about the Zero as the source to your Shanling? Or didn't you compare?_

 

No, that is something I didn't try.. and now I cant because I don't have any of them at my disposal..


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about the Zero as the source to your Shanling? Or didn't you compare?_

 

I'm jumping in here... I have the before mentioned components and I think the Zero DAC driving the Shanling amp was the best combination with K701.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm jumping in here... I have the before mentioned components and I think the Zero DAC driving the Shanling amp was the best combination with K701._

 

Kinda kicking myself for not having tried that out.. I kept the Zero dedicated for music through PC and speakers, while the Shanling was connected to my CD player for dedicated headphone listening..


----------



## blue_lammer

Quick question about Compass vs Sound Cards. My current setup: Prodigy HD2 --> LD II++ --> K701. I was wondering if the compass's DAC is better and if I should just get rid of everything because I heard my amp doesn't have enough power.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's probably the result of your source, not the amp. I had a similar issue with the Little Dot MKV and the K701s, and it was my Apogee Duet being too analytical and not musical enough._

 

You are probably right, well Im hoping the Stello would be musical enough


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *blue_lammer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question about Compass vs Sound Cards. My current setup: Prodigy HD2 --> LD II++ --> K701. I was wondering if the compass's DAC is better and if I should just get rid of everything because I heard my amp doesn't have enough power._

 

I had the Prodigy HD2 advance sound card (flashed with latest software), later I bought the Zero, to me Zero sounded better than Prodigy. I sold my Zero before I bought the Compass, so I wasn't able to do a side by side comparison, but there are a majority that say Compass is far better than Stock Zero.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tyrion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Keep this thread on topic or it will be closed. No more personal attacks._

 

Looks to Sky...

 Thank-you Jesus!!

 Err I mean Tyrion....

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let us know when you expect to get your new amp Sandchak! Very exciting._

 

Sure MBD.. I expect it latest by the 17th, catch one more day extra if I have to carry it to the top floor !!..


----------



## csroc

So how are the HD650s mbd?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My experience with the K701 was that the soundstage you hear with it (and the HD-600s) is directly proportional to the quality of the source and amp._

 

Precisely ! 100% agree with this. Same goes for the 650's BTW. 

 Peete.


----------



## LaidBack

Does anyone know if there are plans for an Audio-gd representative and/or Audio-gd gear to be at Can Jam 09? http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f129/can-jam-2009-date-location-announcement-396027/


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if there are plans for an Audio-gd representative and/or Audio-gd gear to be at Can Jam 09? http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f129/can-jam-2009-date-location-announcement-396027/_

 

Wouldn't that be nice!

 Haven't seen you here in a while, heard you had died!

 .


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wouldn't that be nice!

 Haven't seen you here in a while, heard you had died!

 ._

 

LOL, the rumor's close to the truth. I've been working a lot, a real death-march...

 Yeah, an Audio-gd presence at Can Jam would be cool. I have plans to attend, it should be a great time...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anybody used this with Ultrasone Proline 550s? 

 I was about to pull the trigger on a Stock Zero, but if I manage to sell some gear than this may well be within my reach with some saving up. 

 I'll probably be have HD650s by mid-year as well, so I'd be interested in seeing how the compass compares to the Zero (ie whether its worth the considerable extra over a stock Zero)._

 

Have you read Post #1 yet?

 .


----------



## nsx_23

Still reading through the mass of information in the reviews actually.

 I guess I'm just after a "quick" answer.

 The other option for me is a Zhaolu D3.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, the rumor's close to the truth. I've been working a lot, a real death-march...

 Yeah, an Audio-gd presence at Can Jam would be cool. I have plans to attend, it should be a great time..._

 

Wish I could go. Getting Boozed up with a Bunch of headphone freaks sounds like a good time!!

 For some reason Alcohol acts like a 24db/Octive base Filter to me.

 How do I know this?

 When I get in the Car the next day, and power it up, it blows me out the door onto the driveway!

 .


----------



## nsx_23

Has anybody used this with Ultrasone Proline 550s? 

 I was about to pull the trigger on a Stock Zero, but if I manage to sell some gear than this may well be within my reach with some saving up. 

 I'll probably be have HD650s by mid-year as well, so I'd be interested in seeing how the compass compares to the Zero (ie whether its worth the considerable extra over a stock Zero).


----------



## haloxt

What do you think of your Pro 550's? Do you like its neutrality or you want it to sound more fun? Personally I don't get all that much enjoyment from improving the SQ of my Pro headphones because it always presents things in an unengaging manner (something good for the studio). But I think your Pro headphones would have amazing synergy with the moon hdam because the hdam was probably designed using gear about as revealing and neutral as Pro headphones. It makes my headphones sound almost as fun as HFI-2200's (that means a lot ).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still reading through the mass of information in the reviews actually.

 I guess I'm just after a "quick" answer.

 The other option for me is a Zhaolu D3._

 

Stick with the Compass is my advice. It's clearly a cut above the Zero and that other DAC. Without a doubt.

 That's a quick answer.

 Peete.


----------



## nsx_23

Hmm, so wait another 2 agnoizing weeks before buying a compass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then again, how would the compass play with the HD650 (I'm getting those about middle of the year)?

 Finished reading the extensive reviews by people. It does sound like the compass is worth the extra since it seems to play with the best of them though.


----------



## greenarrow

My purchase of a K702 is just for the arrival of the Compass. At the moment, is using a D2 as a headamp.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, so wait another 2 agnoizing weeks before buying a compass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Then again, how would the compass play with the HD650 (I'm getting those about middle of the year)?

 Finished reading the extensive reviews by people. It does sound like the compass is worth the extra since it seems to play with the best of them though._

 

It works great with my 650's. No worries there.

 Peete.

 PS I've waited since last Fall for the RE1 DAC (5.5 months and counting)......it's shipping in mid March ( I think). I understand how you feel WRT waiting but it'll be worth it


----------



## nsx_23

All good things in life come to those who wait I guess. 

 I take it the Compass is quiet tweakable though?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if there are plans for an Audio-gd representative and/or Audio-gd gear to be at Can Jam 09? http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f129/can-jam-2009-date-location-announcement-396027/_

 

I suggested to Kingwa that he attend, but he doesn't speak any English, so I don't think he'll go.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anybody used this with Ultrasone Proline 550s?_

 

I tried it with my ED9s and all was good. I didn't get the impression that Ultrasones were particularly demanding headphones. HD-600s and 650s are far more sensitive to gear.


----------



## nsx_23

Is the stock OPA good enough, or should I opt for one of the other ones whilst I'm ordering?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the stock OPA good enough, or should I opt for one of the other ones whilst I'm ordering?_

 

The stock OPA now is EARTH and a majority out here seem to agree on that being the best option, but getting the other two Moon and SUN will always add to the variety.. IMHO..

 EDIT - Yes it is quite tweakable, in the sense you can change OPAs, adjust gains and yes a couple of DIY options too, if you are comfortable with soldering, although this hasn't been tried out (think so) , it has been discussed, like adding bypass caps..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the stock OPA good enough, or should I opt for one of the other ones whilst I'm ordering?_

 

Depends on what you like. You'll cover most of the bases with the Earth module (Neutral and well balanced top to bottom) with the Moon module more of a single ended tube like sound, a little warmer with wide sound staging slightly rolled off highs and a thickened (slight but pleasant) mid bass region.
 The SUN V2 is augmented in the bass and treble regions (less than V1 version) if that is your cup of tea.

 The soft/bright settings in the Compass amp section allow customization of the sound qualities even further.

 A discount is offered with the Compass on additional modules (20US each) purchased. So it might be a good idea to get an extra flavor. You pick the stock OPA ( no need it's the Earth module...thanks Sandchak ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and then choose the other flavors ( Moon or SUN V2) if you want.

 Most here have the Earth/Moon combo. Depends on personal taste really. 

 Hope that helps a little.

 Peete.


----------



## nsx_23

Righto. Might go for a moon OPA as well then. 

 How do you find the HD650 plays with the compass?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suggested to Kingwa that he attend, but he doesn't speak any English, so I don't think he'll go._

 

Isn't that a bit harsh? (EDIT: Okay, maybe not, I was just told that that was the reason he gave you.) I would say Kingwa's English is actually quite good from someone with his background. He's struggling, but he seems to manage okay. (Verbal conversation might be more difficult though.)

 I actually think the main thing holding him back would be the considerable cost of shipping an Audio-gd delegation and a lot of equipment overthere. That would constitute quite an outlay for a relatively small company.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Isn't that a bit harsh? (EDIT: Okay, maybe not, I was just told that that was the reason he gave you.) I would say Kingwa's English is actually quite good from someone with his background. He's struggling, but he seems to manage okay. (Verbal conversation might be more difficult though.)

 I actually think the main thing holding him back would be the considerable cost of shipping an Audio-gd delegation and a lot of equipment overthere. That would constitute quite an outlay for a relatively small company._

 

Yeah, I should have phrased that better: I'd have to dig out the email, but he wasn't enthusiastic because he only speaks a couple of words of English.


----------



## K3cT

OPA Moon seems to do very well with my Denon D2000 so I'll be ordering that instead. Too bad the person who bought my Zero insisted that he wanted the Moon with it.


----------



## sandchak

Interesting to see, Compass HP/Preamp Kit on Audio GD's website.. for those who want just the HP amp of the Compass, with DIY skills..

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## tyrion

If you have a problem with a post, report it and let a mod deal with it.


----------



## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I asked him yesterday, when he would ship my amp ++, he said he would do it together with the shipping of Compass - between Monday (9th) and Thursday (12th), he plans to ship the new batch of Compass in 2 batches - 220volt and 120 volt separately, so that just in case the courier mistakenly sends Mr X's parcel to Mr. Y, the compass will still work._

 

Thanks, thats the answer I was looking for. ^^

 Biggie.


----------



## haloxt

Grats on 3,333 posts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kind of late to say this now, but I have to recant what I said about earth being much better than the moon in the compass. I was using a very smoothed HFI-2200 before, so combining it with the moon was like applying crossfeed twice. But with pretty sterile sounding Pro 900's I much prefer the moon which makes it sound interesting, almost as smoothed out as my HFI-2200's with earth. So I recommend the moon to people who think their headphones are excessively analytical and boring, and earth to people who use headphones that already have a lot of character.


----------



## heroine

When I used the Sun V2 and Earth inside my DAC, I thought that the Earth had a too bland, pale midrange. The Sun V2 had much nicer, more communicative mids, and that's why I preferred it. I didn't bother about bass and treble at all, because a dull midrange just ruins the whole picture for me.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the stock OPA good enough, or should I opt for one of the other ones whilst I'm ordering?_

 

My feeling is, get the other two OPAs for the fun of it. Then you get to do the Audiophile OPA rolling thing. You are getting them so cheap, you can't lose money on them. You can put them in other gear. You can sell them in the FS forum and get the $$$ back.

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heroine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I used the Sun V2 and Earth inside my DAC, I thought that the Earth had a too bland, pale midrange. The Sun V2 had much nicer, more communicative mids, and that's why I preferred it. I didn't bother about bass and treble at all, because a dull midrange just ruins the whole picture for me._

 

Have you tried the Moon ? I have all three and when it comes to mids, I personally found Moon to be the best.. maybe that is why I prefer the moon over the earth and sun for vocals..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grats on 3,333 posts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Kind of late to say this now, but I have to recant what I said about earth being much better than the moon in the compass. I was using a very smoothed HFI-2200 before, so combining it with the moon was like applying crossfeed twice. But with pretty sterile sounding Pro 900's I much prefer the moon which makes it sound interesting, almost as smoothed out as my HFI-2200's with earth. So I recommend the moon to people who think their headphones are excessively analytical and boring, and earth to people who use headphones that already have a lot of character._

 

Hmmm, I had blown off the Moon and ordered the Earth and SUN, guess I'll add the Moon to the order.

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm, I had blown off the Moon and ordered the Earth and SUN, guess I'll add the Moon to the order.

 ._

 

The Earth comes as a default OPA in Compass now, so you just have to order SUN and Moon..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heroine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I used the Sun V2 and Earth inside my DAC, I thought that the Earth had a too bland, pale midrange. The Sun V2 had much nicer, more communicative mids, and that's why I preferred it. I didn't bother about bass and treble at all, because a dull midrange just ruins the whole picture for me._

 

What DAC is this...let me guess 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heroine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me the Earth was very disagreeable. There are many chip opamps I preferred to it.




 The Moon I have yet to try and hear. Maybe I'd really like it._

 

Hmmm very few posts, joined yesterday....finds things disagreeable and starts the chip based hints.....

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heroine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried this DAC with opamps like the OPA211, or OPA827, or the dual LME49860?_

 

And there is it.......Andrea up to his old tricks.

 Peete.


----------



## nsx_23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My feeling is, get the other two OPAs for the fun of it. Then you get to do the Audiophile OPA rolling thing. You are getting them so cheap, you can't lose money on them. You can put them in other gear. You can sell them in the FS forum and get the $$$ back.

 ._

 

Do I have to order them at the time of the compass purchase, or can I order them for that special price later down the track (ie when I have more $$$).


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And there is it.......Andrea up to his old tricks._

 

Yeah, figured as much. Already reported it to a mod about an hour ago.


----------



## heroine

Never thought that suggesting something good would have ever harmed anyone.


----------



## heroine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And there is it.......Andrea up to his old tricks.

 Peete._

 

Yeah, of course my old tricks and not yours.... The difference being that yours are accepted as decent, just because your following isn't exactly composed of keen eyed people...


----------



## heroine

So I guess you haven't tried the opamps, and you are confident that you wouldn't want to. Well...congratulations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 At least I have tried both the discrete and chip options, before I started saying what was better for me...


----------



## tinseljim

Andrea why do you do this? Seriously would like to know.


----------



## heroine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Andrea why do you do this? Seriously would like to know._

 

Oh no, you again! You never get tired of this place! Why what, suggesting some good opamps that are obviously worth trying? Pleeeeeeease... It's never ever been a bad thing, in an audio forum. Am I wrong?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What DAC is this...let me guess 



 Hmmm very few posts, joined yesterday....finds things disagreeable and starts the chip based hints.....



 And there is it.......Andrea up to his old tricks.

 Peete._

 

You forgot one thing. He has already had an entire thread purged too.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do I have to order them at the time of the compass purchase, or can I order them for that special price later down the track (ie when I have more $$$)._

 

Get them up front. The real cost is the shipping which costs as much as the OPA's.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heroine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, of course my old tricks and not yours.... The difference being that yours are accepted as decent, just because your following isn't exactly composed of keen eyed people..._

 

What A LUNATIC!!

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heroine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh no, you again! You never get tired of this place! Why what, suggesting some good opamps that are obviously worth trying? Pleeeeeeease... It's never ever been a bad thing, in an audio forum. Am I wrong? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

We get One Whack Job Purged and now this!! It's like a Hydra, you cut off one head and two replace it!

 Never ending line of Losers...

 .


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Thought I would get one last post in this thread before it is closed.

 anyone get their email confirming shipment of the next 30 yet? I had forgotten to add a opamp extension cable to my order, would suck if I didn't get it in time, due to shipping would be way more than 3USD.


----------



## csroc

Good grief, now what?

 I'm sure if people want to try chips or Kingwa's discrete opamps they'll be able to determine for themselves which they prefer, if there's a big difference, and which they'll want to keep without this endless arguing.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The Moon and Earth are equally compelling for different reasons. Out of curiosity I just tried the venerable BBOPA627BP's in the Compass and found it pleasant but lacking in quite a few areas notably a brittle edge to piano, slight roll off of the highs and a considerably flattened sound stage. The bass however is superb and tactile but lacks some speed of the HDAM's (all three). There are more differences but for brevity's sake I shall spare everyone from the details.

 I've been through this routine with the Frankie and the Zero though with the obvious conclusion being no IC based OPA I've yet used (admittedly a small sampling of half dozen types) even comes close to the HDAMs. Someday that may change but for now I know what I want in there as do many others here who feel the same as I do.

 As always I say experience it for yourself and you decide, for that decision ultimately makes sense only to your ears. Some generalizations can guide you towards a base SQ voicing but it's also nice to try something you'd think wouldn't fit the bill. Andrea is attempting to back up his argument with such advice but that advice is based upon a completely different DAC and as such is worthless to the Compass thread. He fails to realize this each and every time he decides to grace us with his superior wisdom.



 Peete.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Moon and Earth are equally compelling for different reasons. Out of curiosity I just tried the venerable BBOPA627BP's in the Compass and found it pleasant but lacking in quite a few areas notably a brittle edge to piano, slight roll off of the highs and a considerably flattened sound stage. The bass however is superb and tactile but lacks some speed of the HDAM's (all three). There are more differences but for brevity's sake I shall spare everyone from the details.

 I've been through this routine with the Frankie and the Zero though with the obvious conclusion being no IC based OPA I've yet used (admittedly a small sampling of half dozen types) even comes close to the HDAMs. Someday that may change but for now I know what I want in there as do many others here who feel the same as I do.

 As always I say experience it for yourself and you decide, for that decision ultimately makes sense only to your ears. Some generalizations can guide you towards a base SQ voicing but it's also nice to try something you'd think wouldn't fit the bill. Andrea is attempting to back up his argument with such advice but that advice is based upon a completely different DAC and as such is worthless to the Compass thread. He fails to realize this each and every time he decides to grace us with his superior wisdom._

 

I think this is going to be predominantly the case that HDAMs will be better than ICs. I would personally peg it on the nature of the ICs. ICs are, as their name hints to, very small. I dont know specifically what process they are made on (ie 100um, 100nm, etc), but the fact that they are made in that fashion means that there is a great deal of parasitics involved. This is like an unintended capacitor or inductor is stuck into the circuit at specific locations. This can have a significant impact on the nature of the output. Granted, there is also some benefit to this, like the knee voltages (the voltages that define the saturated region of operation and cut off as can be seen in an earlier post I made on this thread back in the 50 page area) are all very close to one another for each transistor. These values are not quite as close on discretely separate transistors, this can have an effect on discretely created current mirrors, differential amplifiers, etc. which are used in the HDAMs creation. I would expect the parasitics to have a more significant effect on the purity of the sound than the knee voltage differences in discrete constructions.

 I probably made not a bit of sense.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Righto. Might go for a moon OPA as well then. 

 How do you find the HD650 plays with the compass?_

 

650's are fabulous IMO with the Compass.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks dbs...that made good sense to me.


 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And there is it.......Andrea up to his old tricks.

 Peete._

 

Glad to see nothing much changes around here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How are we all? Not had much spare time lately, but still lovin' the Compass.

 The discrete OPA modules blow away all opamps, in my experience. I've never been a follower of fashion with these things... the OPA627 was loved by virtually everyone, but never worked that nicely for me. OPA827 is nicer IMO, LT1028 still does a lot of things better... but the OPA-Earth is hands-down the winner in all respects. Sun and Moon add flavours, characteristics... can be pleasing in particular setups. All are better than the silicon-sealed opamp though, and noticeably so. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Happy listening!

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad to see nothing much changes around here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How are we all? Not had much spare time lately, but still lovin' the Compass.

 The discrete OPA modules blow away all opamps, in my experience. I've never been a follower of fashion with these things... the OPA627 was loved by virtually everyone, but never worked that nicely for me. OPA827 is nicer IMO, LT1028 still does a lot of things better... but the OPA-Earth is hands-down the winner in all respects. Sun and Moon add flavours, characteristics... can be pleasing in particular setups. All are better than the silicon-sealed opamp though, and noticeably so. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Happy listening!

 ~Phewl._

 

Absolutely agreed AP....nice to see you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## goorackerelite

anyone with a burned in earth opa that they'd like to sell? ; )


----------



## dBs

I hope the Compass can arrive this week or very early next. Next week is spring break and it would be so much easier to write an in depth review then instead of when Im back to exams, projects, finals, and homework XD


----------



## theBigD

I live in SW Oregon and products from audio gd take 1 week from delivery to get here. As long as post office doesnt route it through NJ, then it takes 2 weeks, lol.


----------



## ironaic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad to see nothing much changes around here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How are we all? Not had much spare time lately, but still lovin' the Compass.

 The discrete OPA modules blow away all opamps, in my experience. I've never been a follower of fashion with these things... the OPA627 was loved by virtually everyone, but never worked that nicely for me. OPA827 is nicer IMO, LT1028 still does a lot of things better... but the OPA-Earth is hands-down the winner in all respects. Sun and Moon add flavours, characteristics... can be pleasing in particular setups. All are better than the silicon-sealed opamp though, and noticeably so. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Happy listening!

 ~Phewl._

 

Glad to see you still sound the way you sounded long ago, as well. Some people never evolve.

 In fact, you keep taking those 3 opamps as the reference for all chip opamps, while they absolutely aren't. The LME49860, OPA211, LME49710, to name three, are superior opamps. It's however to be noted that the LME need an extensive power supply bypassing (with high quality caps like those I've used, from Panasonic, Wima and Evox) to unleash their real potential. By experience I can assure you that without that, they sound muddier and duller than they can sound. The OPA211 is a better opamp than the duller OPA827 by far, too.



 That being said, you really are half deaf if you find that the Earth "blows away" even those chips you mentioned yourself. With its distorted, hard, yet pale and gutless sound, I reckon it must win your tasteless love. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just one more case of to each their own stuff.


 Finally, please read majkel's big opamp review in the DIY section, just as a reminder of your severe hearing and taste limitation..



 At any rate I liked the Sun V2. If it weren't "woody" (quoting majkel) in the mids, and a bit mono-tonal too, it would have possibly become my favorite opamp.



 And lastly, the shame of this place of dumb overgrown children continues forever.


----------



## Drosera

^^^
 Reported, please don't respond!


----------



## mH3nG

Just a wild guess but is ironaic = Andrea?

 I'm quite a newbie here so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## nsx_23

The more I read this thread the more I'm convinced the compass is what I've been looking for.

 I take it final spec units are being shipped out now?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mH3nG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a wild guess but is ironaic = Andrea?

 I'm quite a newbie here so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong._

 

Yes, the same. Don't feed it, it will only grow stronger (and more annoying).


----------



## mH3nG

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the same. Don't feed it, it will only grow stronger (and more annoying)._

 

Ah... I would have thought so. But I'm not so much bothered about the opamps. I'm more interested how soon kingwa can ship my compass.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mH3nG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah... I would have thought so. But I'm not so much bothered about the opamps. I'm more interested how soon kingwa can ship my compass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Like I said earlier, he plans to ship the 30 Compass from today till the 12th of this month, in 2-3 batches according to voltages.. so some can expect shipment details as early as today or tomorrow morning itself..happy for you guys !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I cant wait till more folks have the Compass and this thread will be back to discussing Compass again !..

 EDIT - He had ordered new foam and boxes for packaging - the foam has arrived but the boxes are expected tomorrow, if the boxes don't arrive all the 220Volt Compass still ships out tomorrow in the old box and new foam - while all the 120 Volt Compass will be shipped out on Thursday 12th.. the new foams were ordered because last time a Compass took a beating in transit and came with bent OPA pins, he feels these new packaging materials will better protect the Compass..


----------



## D.C.

double post


----------



## haloxt

When you guys say the hdam's are better than opa627bp's you are backing up majkel's review. He ranks 6 opamps (3 of them moon earth and sun) and in five tests ranks OPA627BP's as 5th out of 6, 6/6, 3/6, 5/6, and 6/6. I personally think earth sounds earthy. (runs for cover before he gets lynched). Compared to lm4562's and their single channel counterpart on browndogs lme49710's (i soldered these myself, daring to stick them in something as precious as my compass shows how desperate I am to end this squabble) the hdam's are not meant to be neutral, they sound flavored, even the earth. Not that that's a bad thing, and coupled with their far superior soundstage and imaging I would very often choose them over lm4562's and lme49710's. If the lme49860's have as good soundstage and imaging as the hdam's then I'd like it a lot.

 edit: I just ordered 5 lme49860 samples, send me a tell if you want me to send one to you to try in your compass (please in the US 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 edit: gave away 3 and saving 1 in case one gets lost in the mail, if you want to order free samples from TI you can get them with a shipping fee of 8 to 11 dollars or with free shipping if you provide a company e-mail address.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT - He had ordered new foam and boxes for packaging - the foam has arrived but the boxes are expected tomorrow, if the boxes don't arrive all the 220Volt Compass still ships out tomorrow in the old box and new foam - while all the 120 Volt Compass will be shipped out on Thursday 12th.. the new foams were ordered because last time a Compass took a beating in transit and came with bent OPA pins, he feels these new packaging materials will better protect the Compass.._

 

FINALLY! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm getting tired listening my D2000 from my laptop's headphone out having experienced the Zero before.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Well I took the plunge and ordered one! I hope these bad boys get built and shipped soon as the suspense is going to kill me!


----------



## insyte

Darn, the wait is killing me. But I think its very likely that the C2C will arrive this week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully DHL delivers it straight to my house 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It will be a hassle if I had to go to the post office near the airport or something


----------



## ironaic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you guys say the hdam's are better than opa627bp's you are backing up majkel's review. He ranks 6 opamps (3 of them moon earth and sun) and in five tests ranks OPA627BP's as 5th out of 6, 6/6, 3/6, 5/6, and 6/6. I personally think earth sounds earthy. (runs for cover before he gets lynched). Compared to lm4562's and their single channel counterpart on browndogs lme49710's (i soldered these myself, daring to stick them in something as precious as my compass shows how desperate I am to end this squabble) the hdam's are not meant to be neutral, they sound flavored, even the earth. Not that that's a bad thing, and coupled with their far superior soundstage and imaging I would very often choose them over lm4562's and lme49710's. If the lme49860's have as good soundstage and imaging as the hdam's then I'd like it a lot.

 edit: I just ordered 5 lme49860 samples, send me a tell if you want me to send one to you to try in your compass (please in the US 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)._

 

Rather than flavored I'd call the Earth unflavored, LOL. But probably I know what you mean, comparing with the LME49710.


 Anyway, if you love a very big soundstage, try the OPA211ID. It's a fantastic (single) bipolar opamp (bipolars being better, more resolving than FET input types - and the LM and LME being bipolars too). You and I should try the (single) AD8597, too, that's the new best AD opamp for audio.



 Regarding the Sun V2 -- not only did it sound woody i.e. adding roughness to male vocals, and a little yellow-all-the-time tonally, but it also produced 375 mV of DC offset in my DAC (even with the ground connected to the most proper spot and everything else working perfectly), something no other opamp ever did, not even the high input bias current bipolars. Note that the Sun V2 has FET inputs so it should not suffer from any DC offset problems, so this is clearly a design flaw leading to incompatibility with certain designs..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you guys say the hdam's are better than opa627bp's you are backing up majkel's review. He ranks 6 opamps (3 of them moon earth and sun) and in five tests ranks OPA627BP's as 5th out of 6, 6/6, 3/6, 5/6, and 6/6. I personally think earth sounds earthy. (runs for cover before he gets lynched). Compared to lm4562's and their single channel counterpart on browndogs lme49710's (i soldered these myself, daring to stick them in something as precious as my compass shows how desperate I am to end this squabble) the hdam's are not meant to be neutral, they sound flavored, even the earth. Not that that's a bad thing, and coupled with their far superior soundstage and imaging I would very often choose them over lm4562's and lme49710's. If the lme49860's have as good soundstage and imaging as the hdam's then I'd like it a lot.

 edit: I just ordered 5 lme49860 samples, send me a tell if you want me to send one to you to try in your compass (please in the US 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)._

 

It's not hard to arrive at the conclusion that the HDAM (any flavor) is superior in SQ to the 627's......however that doesn't mean I agree with any of his rankings. Shrugs shoulders.

 More power to you for trying out different stuff but it sounds like you haven't come across an IC based OPA that unseats your discrete module (yet either). That's a far cry from Maj's conclusions nes pas ?

 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

I say we give this topic a rest until we try the opamps majkel says he likes best, especially the LME49860 since it is already dual channel and is pretty cheap and I'm willing to mail up to four for free.

 edit: international is fine, got 3 left.

 edit: gave away 3 and saving 1 in case one gets lost in the mail, if you want to order free samples from TI you can get them with a shipping fee of 8 to 11 dollars or with free shipping if you provide a company e-mail address.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mH3nG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah... I would have thought so. But I'm not so much bothered about the opamps. I'm more interested how soon kingwa can ship my compass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You really need to read this entire thread created by the Forum admin http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/at...3/#post3696043

 There is more to it than just opamp misinformation.

 Peete.


----------



## ironaic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I say we give this topic a rest until we try the opamps majkel says he likes best, especially the LME49860 since it is already dual channel and is pretty cheap and I'm willing to mail up to four for free._

 

So now majkel's become the new popular truth-teller. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Seriously, there's no reason in the world to expect that a dual LME49860 would surpass two single LME49710 correctly implemented (no Browndogs & good supply bypass).

 Let me insist that power supply bypass, as close as possible to the opamp pins (better if the DAC has single opamps like mine, because Browndogs will compromise this aspect), is absolutely vital for the results with the LME49710 (and the others in the series). That's what I've experienced in my DAC, that's now sounding unbelievable just thanks to (the LME49710's and) the very fast & close to the chips power supply bypass caps I've added.


 You have to hear the OPA211ID instead, that's an entirely different thing from the LME and might be greatly preferred (or not) depending on your system. If there's an opamp I'd have soldered to my DAC's PCB instead of the (however excellent) LME49710NA's, that's the one.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I say we give this topic a rest until we try the opamps majkel says he likes best, especially the LME49860 since it is already dual channel and is pretty cheap and I'm willing to mail up to four for free._

 

I'll wait for your report.

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you guys say the hdam's are better than opa627bp's you are backing up majkel's review. He ranks 6 opamps (3 of them moon earth and sun) and in five tests ranks OPA627BP's as 5th out of 6, 6/6, 3/6, 5/6, and 6/6. I personally think earth sounds earthy. (runs for cover before he gets lynched). Compared to lm4562's and their single channel counterpart on browndogs lme49710's (i soldered these myself, daring to stick them in something as precious as my compass shows how desperate I am to end this squabble) the hdam's are not meant to be neutral, they sound flavored, even the earth. Not that that's a bad thing, and coupled with their far superior soundstage and imaging I would very often choose them over lm4562's and lme49710's. If the lme49860's have as good soundstage and imaging as the hdam's then I'd like it a lot.

 edit: I just ordered 5 lme49860 samples, send me a tell if you want me to send one to you to try in your compass (please in the US 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)._

 

We must be reading the same threads, most likely for all the same reasons. I just snagged 5 of those and they arrived this AM. You putting those in your Halo or using Just one for the Compass??

 .


----------



## ironaic

I'd definitely try the LME49860 in the Compass. It might be the finest opamp for it.


----------



## haloxt

I would've put it in the halo but it'd be better to give it to a few people wanting to try to verify what majkel said about the LME49860's.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would've put it in the halo but it'd be better to give it to a few people wanting to try to verify what majkel said about the LME49860's._

 

Hi,
 Exactly why I got them. Thanx for the Help on the Halo! I have the LM4562's in there now. Haven't listened to them much, but what I did hear was pretty good!

 .


----------



## ironaic

One thing I don't understand is why audio-gd chose an obsolete DAC like the AD1852 for this new design. They could have chosen the AD1955, and have come up with a much more interesting (for me at least) product.


----------



## Currawong

I tried the OP27G x2 in the Compass (one of Maj's suggestions) and they are lovely, though not as resolving and detailed as a HDAM. For fun, I am going to order samples of a few opamps to see what they are like.


----------



## mH3nG

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You really need to read this entire thread created by the Forum admin http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/at...3/#post3696043

 There is more to it than just opamp misinformation.

 Peete._

 

Thanks for highlighting that out. I didn't know it was so bad until I saw that thread that was dedicated to him.


----------



## nsx_23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried the OP27G x2 in the Compass (one of Maj's suggestions) and they are lovely, though not as resolving and detailed as a HDAM. For fun, I am going to order samples of a few opamps to see what they are like._

 

Where are you guys ordering the samples?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironaic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad to see you still sound the way you sounded long ago, as well. Some people never evolve.

*<SNIP>*

 And lastly, the shame of this place of dumb overgrown children continues forever. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm not going to get involved in an argument over this.

 You know, Andrea... for the most part, I've never minded you that much. On occasions, I've respected your opinions because they have fallen in line with my own findings, despite being the opposite of the general consensus.

 However... you're argumentative with everyone. You have to wave your flag as high as you can, and shout as loudly as you can at anyone who has an opinion which differs from your own. You rave on, and on, and on about these opamps... as soon as a new one comes out, it's king of this particular circle. It's a very tiring thing to have to wade through on here each week or two. I'm glad you still persist with silicon-encased opamps, and that you find them pleasing to your ears. I'm not going to try and argue with you over them, because so long as they are pleasing to your ears, and give you enjoyment of this hobby, that is all that matters.

 However, because of all the above, you just don't have a place in this thread. You spoil all reasonable discussions because of your shouting and persistant abuse toward anyone with an opinion other than yours. I'll gladly go against the grain if I believe something to be true - but it should only be done the once. Have your say, and move along. Those who want to listen, will. Those who don't, simply won't. You bring no good to anything on here - please, pursue the hobby and enjoy yourself. But stop terrorising these threads and allow other people to enjoy theirselves as well.

 Seeing as you insist on trying to be a part of this community... my advice is this. Find a thread where you actually own some of the equipment, or believe in the design concepts. Create an account, quietly, and come on here and participate in the discussion. Don't set out to offend people, nor create post after post shouting the same thing just because people don't share your opinion. Voice a few words, participate in the discussion, and accept that other people don't always agree. Don't harper on about the same things, time after time, month after month, just because you fail to persuade the world that you are right and they're all wrong... have your say, and leave it at that.

 Man to man... I think you're a fair guy, and you'll be able to make reasonable input into a worthwhile discussion if you learn a little tact, diplomacy, and are able to live and let live.

 The passion behind this hobby should *always* be about the music, and what it does inside of you. That magical fire that ignites when you hear something so crisp, so detailed, yet so smooth and awesomely intoxicating... focus on that, leave the forums as a sideline... relax, enjoy yourself, and keep the peace.

 That's my say... proceed how you wish. Call me names, point out why I'm so blatantly wrong, abuse my mother and call me ugly... I really couldn't give a monkeys. I hope that, maybe, some of this will make sense to you, and that you find a niche into which you fit, where you'll find some happiness. I dare say I'll be proven wrong, but I wish you the best of luck and good health.

 Regards,

 ~Phewl.


----------



## peanuthead

I'm really impressed with you guys.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are you guys ordering the samples?_

 

Most of the Companies have Free Samples. You can get them from TI, National Semi Conductor, and Linear Technology. Some of them aren't available as samples, but almost all of them are.

 Just get the Chip name, go to the website, create an acct., be "creative" answering the survey in your account questions. And you're off...

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Save your sage words AP...that angle has been tried a hundred times....it's ALWAYS the same old same old from Andrea.

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I know... but I live in hope. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Happy listening...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know... but I live in hope. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Happy listening...

 ~Phewl._

 






 Hope springs eternal !!!

 You too !!

 Peete.


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which OPA is recommended for markl D5000? (i.e. its bass is not as excessive as the stock unit)._

 

Anyone with a modded Denons, or at least a "theory"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Looking for a more musical/natural/fun sound, so not sure whether to compare Earch OPA to the Moon or the Sun. The Sun is probably too much for stock Denons due to bass, but maybe its good when the Denon is modded to calm down the bass.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone with a modded Denons, or at least a "theory"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking for a more musical/natural/fun sound, so not sure whether to compare Earch OPA to the Moon or the Sun. The Sun is probably too much for stock Denons due to bass, but maybe its good when the Denon is modded to calm down the bass._

 

One day I hope to own a pair of LA2000s or dare I drool LA7000s, but until then I dont think anyone who currently has a Compass has any modded Ds or LAs =\ Ill promise you though, soon as I own a pair, Ill let you know =D


----------



## theBigD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone with a modded Denons, or at least a "theory"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking for a more musical/natural/fun sound, so not sure whether to compare Earch OPA to the Moon or the Sun. The Sun is probably too much for stock Denons due to bass, but maybe its good when the Denon is modded to calm down the bass._

 

I just modded d7000 last night. been burning in the earth for about 100 hrs. I have a well burnt in moon that I really liked with stock d7000. very large soundstage a little smooth but nice bass extension. The earth has a little more punch in the bass without the extension and a little more edge in the midrange. I want to burn in the earth a little more before i put moon back in. I am using in the ef1 amp so it may be a bit different for your application. I have a sun comming next week and am very interest in how it synergizes with modded d7000. My working theory is the Earth is probably best all around and moon and sun may be good for certain music.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are you guys ordering the samples?_

 

You can google the opamp and the manufacturer usually offers samples. For the OP27Gs they happened to be stocked in my local electronics store, so I just grabbed a pair.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know... but I live in hope. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I understand this thinking, but after having dealt with quite a few people online who are mentally incapable of considering others, let alone changing their ways, I learned when hitting the "report post" button was more useful. For Andrea, it's the only option, period.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone with a modded Denons, or at least a "theory"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking for a more musical/natural/fun sound, so not sure whether to compare Earch OPA to the Moon or the Sun. The Sun is probably too much for stock Denons due to bass, but maybe its good when the Denon is modded to calm down the bass._

 

The Moon would be fine, but I'd grab it in addition to the Earth, as there are some times when you want music a bit more "in your face".


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One day I hope to own a pair of LA2000s or dare I drool LA7000s, but until then I dont think anyone who currently has a Compass has any modded Ds or LAs =\ Ill promise you though, soon as I own a pair, Ill let you know =D_

 

Partial markl modded my D5000 last night(didn't do the front - later this week, and recable soon), big improvement in sound stage and bass is much tighter. My compass is shipping this week along with the earth, moon & sun so I'll let you know as well.


----------



## gevorg

Thanks everyone!

 I guess I'll go with the Moon and the Earth.


 Will report back on my findings, hopefully soon.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Partial markl modded my D5000 last night(didn't do the front - later this week, and recable soon), big improvement in sound stage and bass is much tighter. My compass is shipping this week along with the earth, moon & sun so I'll let you know as well._

 

I think the 30 Compass being shipped this time has seen burn in of more than 100 hours, some where close to 150 before being shipped.. and still it takes around 15-20 mins to warm up after being switched on to clear things up a little.. what I am saying is, I personally found the the sound of Compass to evolve (on the better side) as it gathered more hours, and I feel it would be the same case with the new batch of Compass.. give it a little time before final conclusions.. Again, these are my personal opinions.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone with a modded Denons, or at least a "theory"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking for a more musical/natural/fun sound, so not sure whether to compare Earch OPA to the Moon or the Sun. The Sun is probably too much for stock Denons due to bass, but maybe its good when the Denon is modded to calm down the bass._

 

I have a modded and recabled D2000. It's not really a markl mod anymore though as I don't really dig the sound of the full LA2000. I used to own a Zero with OPA Moon installed. 

 OPA Moon seems to go best with the modded D2000 due to its smooth nature. It really helps to bring out the mids, reigns the treble down a bit and expands the soundstage. The Earth also works well if you fancy a more forward mids but my ears couldn't really tell too much difference between them other than the mids and soundstage.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the 30 Compass being shipped this time has seen burn in of more than 100 hours, some where close to 150 before being shipped.. and still it takes around 15-20 mins to warm up after being switched on to clear things up a little.. what I am saying is, I personally found the the sound of Compass to evolve (on the better side) as it gathered more hours, and I feel it would be the same case with the new batch of Compass.. give it a little time before final conclusions.. Again, these are my personal opinions._

 

Good to know, and will keep that in mind - I don't expect to be disappointed since currently I am using my stock laptop sound with my roommates go-vibe.


----------



## m0ofassa

Is it possible to use just the DAC component without some heavy DIY?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m0ofassa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it possible to use just the DAC component without some heavy DIY?_

 

If you are talking about Compass, Yes you can only use the DAC through the DAC Out RCAs behind the Compass..

 As for the rest, as long as people want to play the game of one-upmanship, clashes are going to keep cropping up..

 I am glad the 30 Compass are being shipped, hopefuly the thread will be back on its tracks - talking about Compass and related stuffs.. IMHO..


----------



## m0ofassa

thanks sandchak


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes its very sad.. btw any news about your C2C?.._

 

Hehe I started a new thread


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m0ofassa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it possible to use just the DAC component without some heavy DIY?_

 

Check the FAQ in my signature. I've drawn some some diagrams to explain what you can do with it that I hope make some sense.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Congrats to insyte on his C2C arrival. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats to insyte on his C2C arrival. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete._

 

Thanks Peete. My DAC should be arriving soon too, hopefully in about an hour


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The RE1 ?

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The RE1 ?

 Peete._

 

that reminds me.. when are you expecting your RE1??..


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The RE1 ?

 Peete._

 

Ah no, stello da100


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that reminds me.. when are you expecting your RE1??.._

 

Mid March Sandchak, along with a C-2C. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah no, stello da100 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oops...sorry about that, I thought you already owned a Stello. I bet your pretty excited about it all. That should be a darn good combination 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mid March Sandchak, along with a C-2C. 
 Peete._

 

Thats very close, hope you would be sharing your impressions, although its too steep for me to afford, the RE3 is on my radar, hopefully it should share some characteristics of RE1..


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mid March Sandchak, along with a C-2C. 



 Oops...sorry about that, I thought you already owned a Stello. I bet your pretty excited about it all. That should be a darn good combination 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Yup very excited and Im hoping they do synergize 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am looking forward to your impressions when your RE-1 and C-2C arrives


----------



## Pricklely Peete

You bet guys. I'll be giving both an in depth look much like the Compass but this time I'll put some considerable hours on both before starting the evaluation process.

 I'm reading a review of the Strello right now to familiarize myself with it. It's looks like a very nice DAC insyte. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats very close, hope you would be sharing your impressions, although its too steep for me to afford, the RE3 is on my radar, hopefully it should share some characteristics of RE1.._

 

It should I would think due to the DSP1 chip and the dual PCM1704UK DAC's. If I had to hazard a guess maybe 75% of the RE1's capabilities......I'll be better able to judge that in the future if I pick one up for the head fi/desktop/near field system I'm currently contemplating.

 Peete


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You bet guys. I'll be giving both an in depth look much like the Compass but this time I'll put some considerable hours on both before starting the evaluation process.
 Peete._

 

In depth like Compass.. well, I guess a new thread will be opening up soon on RE1, maybe you, maybe Curra.. whoever, its going to be very interesting read..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 It should I would think due to the DSP1 chip and the dual PCM1704UK DAC's. If I had to hazard a guess maybe 75% of the RE1's capabilities..... 
 

I am already happy, just to hear that..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You bet guys. I'll be giving both an in depth look much like the Compass_

 

I hope you have a few weeks of vacation scheduled to complete that one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Poor Peete, maybe you can get sponsoring from Audio-gd for your review work. All the big magazines do it.


----------



## K3cT

Kingwa has said that he was going to ship the 220V Compass today but I guess there's a delay now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well, they say that patience is virtue.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Poor Peete, maybe you can get sponsoring from Audio-gd for your review work. All the big magazines do it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, the way you wrote your review of Compass, maybe you should join in as the chief of editorial team !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Kingwa has said that he was going to ship the 220V Compass today but I guess there's a delay now. Oh well, they say that patience is virtue. 
 

Are you sure??.. the last I heard from him, he was saying the 220V Compasses were being packed and were leaving within an hour for shipping.. I guess it became too late when they finished packing in the new boxes.. Not to worry, You will be rewarded for the patience ( stole that line from Peete's vocab)..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the way you wrote your review of Compass, maybe you should join in as the chief of editorial team !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ha, I don't know, I think there's a stamp on my head saying "no commercial potential", because by now I'm getting more and more convinced that DBT is the only proper way to review audio gear.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa has said that he was going to ship the 220V Compass today but I guess there's a delay now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well, they say that patience is virtue._

 

Why do you say that? Because you haven't received the confirmation with the tracking number yet? Well, it's a bit of a drive from Audio-gd headquarters to the shipping offices in GuangZhou, so there's a good chance you will get the confirmation only the following morning.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope you have a few weeks of vacation scheduled to complete that one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Poor Peete, maybe you can get sponsoring from Audio-gd for your review work. All the big magazines do it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's fun I have to say although a ton of work. The best part of all is listening to the music and making notes as I go along. The hard part is making sense of those notes when it comes time to write it all up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha, I don't know, I think there's a stamp on my head saying "no commercial potential", because by now I'm getting more and more convinced that DBT is the only proper way to review audio gear._

 

DBT has it's own issues that makes the results somewhat unreliable. Statistical probability is no way to judge sound quality IMO. You have to have a known reference point in order to make any concrete assumptions...if you never know what it is your making the assumptions on then how can you formulate the evaluation with any great degree of accuracy ? Nes pas ? Sighted evaluation if approached properly is still the only clear way to really evaluate anything ...IMO at least. 

 I read a really convincing argument against DBT a few years back but can't remember where I saw the article (figures), the gist of which is renumerated in the paragraph above.

 Peete.


----------



## insyte

Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but right now Im in audio bliss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stello DA100 + Audio GD C-2C = Happiness


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DBT has it's own issues that makes the results somewhat unreliable. Statistical probability is no way to judge sound quality IMO. You have to have a known reference point in order to make any concrete assumptions...if you never know what it is your making the assumptions on then how can you formulate the evaluation with any great degree of accuracy ? Nes pas ? Sighted evaluation if approached properly is still the only clear way to really evaluate anything ...IMO at least. 

 I read a really convincing argument against DBT a few years back but can't remember where I saw the article (figures), the gist of which is renumerated in the paragraph above.

 Peete._

 

I think in comparisons, if properly set up, DBT can be both the most illuminating and most reliable approach. I don't actually see how in such a situation, the reference would be a problem. Although I will concede that SBT is often the more feasible approach.
 I would love to discuss this further, but fear the wrath of the mods (since it's not allowed).


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but right now Im in audio bliss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stello DA100 + Audio GD C-2C = Happiness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Good to hear! And to think your C-2C has barely had a chance to warm up. Things can only get better.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but right now Im in audio bliss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stello DA100 + Audio GD C-2C = Happiness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, I feel it will only get better.. btw, what headphones are you using with the C2C??..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but right now Im in audio bliss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stello DA100 + Audio GD C-2C = Happiness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Very sweet setup! Did you order a Compass also?

 .


----------



## insyte

double post


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I feel it will only get better.. btw, what headphones are you using with the C2C??.._

 

I used the K701 for some classical and stacey kent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I now love my K701 more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now using the RS-1 and listening to some Green Day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very sweet setup! Did you order a Compass also?

 ._

 

Not yet, I'll see if I can get some funds before the promo period ends 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to hear! And to think your C-2C has barely had a chance to warm up. Things can only get better._

 

It's already 1AM here I don't know if Im still going to sleep


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Excellent news insyte and thanks for reminding me Dro....(I had forgotten about the NDA on DBT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 insyte did Kingwa give it a 100 hours before shipping ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's already 1AM here I don't know if Im still going to sleep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Oh man I know that feeling !!!! 

 Peete.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent news insyte and thanks for reminding me Dro....(I had forgotten about the NDA on DBT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 insyte did Kingwa give it a 100 hours before shipping ?

 Peete._

 

Oh I didn't ask 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think he did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh man I know that feeling !!!! 

 Peete._

 

I still have to try the HD650, the porta pro and the etymotic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man Im just so happy today


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think in comparisons, if properly set up, DBT can be both the most illuminating and most reliable approach. I don't actually see how in such a situation, the reference would be a problem. Although I will concede that SBT is often the more feasible approach.
 I would love to discuss this further, but fear the wrath of the mods (since it's not allowed)._

 

Blind, Double Blind, Triple Blind, it's an essential part of the Scientific Method. There is no other way to do it. You analyze the results and determine the significance. 

 I certainly don't suggest that there aren't ways to induce Bias in testing. That's why you have a testing Committee to oversee design, and OK the Final Methodology.

 A guy evaluating Products he Paid for is fraught with Bias. A guy evaluating products he was "Given" by the manufacturer is Fraught with Bias.

 If you work for a Magazine, you have revenue streams from manufacturers that support your Publication. Review them bad and they pull their marketing revenue. 

 Forums like this are really the only chance we have to get an opinion. Separating the wheat from the Chaff is a real trick though. I'm surprised it doesn't happen at Can meets though? Senns and Ultrasones would make it so easy.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used the K701 for some classical and stacey kent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I now love my K701 more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now using the RS-1 and listening to some Green Day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not yet, I'll see if I can get some funds before the promo period ends 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's already 1AM here I don't know if Im still going to sleep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Very Interesting Comparison, Stella vs Compass...

 .


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Blind, Double Blind, Triple Blind, it's an essential part of the Scientific Method._

 

I'm not going to discuss this here, but you should note that discussion of it is not permitted in the forums generally. Please remember what this thread is about and refrain from (yet again) taking it off-topic. Thanks.


----------



## Joeoboe

Back on topic... sort of... did anyone else notice that Audio-gd is now selling the Compass/HP DIY kit?


----------



## K3cT

I'm wondering what's the status of the shipment myself.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm wondering what's the status of the shipment myself._

 

All 220V Compass left yesterday night for DHL/EMS GuangZhou, he will try get the tracking numbers this evening, you should get a mail this evening or latest tomorrow with all the tracking details..although my amp didn't leave..


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All 220V Compass left yesterday night for DHL/EMS GuangZhou, he will try get the tracking numbers this evening, you should get a mail this evening or latest tomorrow with all the tracking details..although my amp didn't leave..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, sandchak because that's quite a relief. I was reluctant to e-mail him as I'm sure he's busy enough already with the Compass and I don't want to disturb him.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, sandchak because that's quite a relief. I was reluctant to e-mail him as I'm sure he's busy enough already with the Compass and I don't want to disturb him._

 

No Problems K3cT, I am following up with Kingwa for my amp, so at the same time I am trying to get info on the Compass shipment, I am very keen to know how the Compass sounds now with those gain and sound signature changes, plus the sooner you guys get the Compass the better for this thread as discussions will be back on Compass !!..


----------



## dBs

XD that totally threw me for a min. email for tracking tonight. Shipping at night? Ohhh yea!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_XD that totally threw me for a min. email for tracking tonight. Shipping at night? Ohhh yea!_

 

Well thats how it seems to work out there, the courier comes and collects the packages around 9pm, since GuangZhou is around 60km away from his warehouse, they sort out the packages the next day (today), weighing and allotting tracking numbers.. I guess all this because China is a place from where many things are shipped around the world, so they work till pretty late, and yes, must be kinda chaotic too !.


----------



## cynan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Blind, Double Blind, Triple Blind, it's an essential part of the Scientific Method. 
 ._

 

Oh, quit your silly posturing. Double and triple blinding have no bearing in the comparison testing of audio gear.

 There is only one type of blinding that pertains to the evaluation of audio equipment by an observer (or in this case, listener). This is simply plain old blinding: The observer is unaware of which gear he or she is listening to when comparing 2 or more pieces of audio gear. In such a scenario, blinding simply means that he/she does not know which gear is which and is therefore able to perform a more subjective comparison as a result. 

 Blinding is part of the scientific method? It does not directly relate to the scientific method at all. It is simply a way of reducing bias that can be applied to certain experimental study designs.

 The only places double and triple blinding are ever used is in experimental studies (usually controlled trials) which involve human test subjects. The last time I checked, audio gear was not human... You probably don't even know what a commonly accepted definition of triple blinding is...

 Good grief.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cynan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, quit your silly posturing. Double and triple blinding have no bearing in the comparison testing of audio gear.

 There is only one type of blinding that pertains to the evaluation of audio equipment by an observer (or in this case, listener). This is simply plain old blinding: The observer is unaware of which gear he or she is listening to when comparing 2 or more pieces of audio gear. In such a scenario, blinding simply means that he/she does not know which gear is which and is therefore able to perform a more subjective comparison as a result. 

 Blinding is part of the scientific method? It does not directly relate to the scientific method at all. It is simply a way of reducing bias that can be applied to certain experimental study designs.

 The only places double and triple blinding are ever used is in experimental studies (usually controlled trials) which involve human test subjects. The last time I checked, audio gear was not human... You probably don't even know what a commonly accepted definition of triple blinding is...

 Good grief. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You're both right and you're both wrong. Now please stop discussing it here!!

 Jeez, I certainly learned why this can of worms is supposed to remain shut. I promise I'll never mention DBT outside of the "Sound Science" forum again. Sorry for this.


----------



## sandchak

For those who are interested to see how the upgraded (30) looks like:













 Hope it can bee seen now as I have also put it as attachments..


----------



## Currawong

Looks like mbd2884 is evading his ban. I've reported him to the mods. Please pay no attention to him.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back on topic... sort of... did anyone else notice that Audio-gd is now selling the Compass/HP DIY kit?_

 

Quoted 16 USD on the board to be shipped to Australia, but I can't find a suitable case haha! Cheapest from thlaudio.com was like 63 USD not including shipping >.>


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who are interested to see how the upgraded (30) looks like:









_

 

Can't see?


----------



## sandchak

maybe now.. I have also put it as attachments..


----------



## Drosera

Those RCA connectors look really sweet! I'm now starting to wish I had those on my test-version as well. 

 (In case some people are wondering, this is not yet the "final version" of the Compass. The new back and front plates are still being manufactured.)


----------



## insyte

Wow the compass already looks good on those pics


----------



## Serpentd

Wow, I sure hope this has some instructions with it for basic hook up and functions. I'm brand new to this stuff with the Compass being my first ever piece of headphone equipment. I'm getting one of the 30, so not exactly sure when you would want to use some of those RCA connectors. Not to mention the two that aren't even labeled. 

 I know you great forum members will be able to help me out once I get the thing. I'm way stoked for sure about getting into this hobby for sure. It's a pleasure to read everyone's posts about this type of equipment even if 75% of it is over my head and I need to Wiki everything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I just sit back and read to try and absorb what most of you are talking about with out asking questions prematurely. There's a LOT of stuff to learn for sure. I wish I had more knowledge to actually participate, but unfortunately I'm just a total newbie to this stuff.

 Anyway, the Compass looks killer and am way stoked to finally know it's on it's way soon. Hope I get it by next week. I would love to share my impressions, but not sure what I would compare it to. 

 By no means am I new to music or home audio, plus I've been a drummer for over 25 years and music has been my life since I was a 10 year old kid. I'm just new to the whole "mid-fi" headphone scene. Actually just the whole headphone thing in general. 

 I can't believe I never discovered this earlier in life. Oh well, better late then never. Thanks for everyone's understanding on where I'm at here. Everyone's knowledge has been invaluable to me to say the least. And it feels like I am getting a great start with going with the Compass do to everyone's input here. So thank you all very much.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, I sure hope this has some instructions with it for basic hook up and functions. I'm brand new to this stuff with the Compass being my first ever piece of headphone equipment. I'm getting one of the 30, so not exactly sure when you would want to use some of those RCA connectors. Not to mention the two that aren't even labeled._

 

Although I don't think it will come with an instruction manual, Currawong is working on an elaborate Compass FAQ/Primer that will answer most of the basic connection and operation questions.

 Those unmarked RCA connectors are the pre-amp outputs that you would use to connect it to a power amplifier. (Basically the type of amplifier that drives speakers, but that doesn't have volume or output controls on it.)

 Don't worry about your lack of experience, most of us don't have a whole lot of experience in audio, we just talk like we do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I'm certain that with your experience in music you will be able to give some great impressions on how the Compass sounds, allowing us to share in your enjoyment.


----------



## sandchak

Hi Serepentd,

 Nice to see you back and good to know you finally decided to go for Compass, well I think many can assure you that its the right step if you entering into head-fi, just like me and many others.

 No, there is no instruction manual that comes with it, but Curra has a nice little write up on Compass : 

Introduction to the Compass DAC and Headphone amplifier - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 If you go through that, you will at least know much about Compass and its basic functions, the upgraded model which you should get by late next week as the 120V compasses are being shipped tomorrow, this version has some changes to it from the first version, basically making it more convenient for the user to change gains and preamp on off switch at the back of the Compass.

 Well, the rest when you get your Compass, there are plenty of helping hands around this place..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope you get your Compass soon and enjoy it as much as I have or all the Compass users out here..

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, I sure hope this has some instructions with it for basic hook up and functions. I'm brand new to this stuff with the Compass being my first ever piece of headphone equipment. I'm getting one of the 30, so not exactly sure when you would want to use some of those RCA connectors. Not to mention the two that aren't even labeled. 

 I know you great forum members will be able to help me out once I get the thing. I'm way stoked for sure about getting into this hobby for sure. It's a pleasure to read everyone's posts about this type of equipment even if 75% of it is over my head and I need to Wiki everything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I just sit back and read to try and absorb what most of you are talking about with out asking questions prematurely. There's a LOT of stuff to learn for sure. I wish I had more knowledge to actually participate, but unfortunately I'm just a total newbie to this stuff.

 Anyway, the Compass looks killer and am way stoked to finally know it's on it's way soon. Hope I get it by next week. I would love to share my impressions, but not sure what I would compare it to. 

 By no means am I new to music or home audio, plus I've been a drummer for over 25 years and music has been my life since I was a 10 year old kid. I'm just new to the whole "mid-fi" headphone scene. Actually just the whole headphone thing in general. 

 I can't believe I never discovered this earlier in life. Oh well, better late then never. Thanks for everyone's understanding on where I'm at here. Everyone's knowledge has been invaluable to me to say the least. And it feels like I am getting a great start with going with the Compass do to everyone's input here. So thank you all very much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

EDIT - As usual, Drosera beat me again !!..


----------



## Serpentd

Cool man. Thank you both (Drosera and sandchak) very much for you input and pointing me in the right direction already. I'll be sure to read the info you pointed out. After all I'll want to get this puppy up and running within the first 5 minutes of it getting here, I just need to decide what to hook it up to. I better tell my wife now that when this package arrives that I won't be available for about 24 hours for anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I must say, out of all the forums I've participated in, some/most of you guys/gals are the coolest and most helpful I've come across. Very polite and friendly, that's rare it seems these days, especially when it comes to forums or just the internet in general. I'll use sandchak as an example. I truly couldn't believe that you even remembered me. I've only posted here a few times. That alone is just cool as hell. Thanks for that sandchak, truly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, thank you Drosera for explaining the Preamp out function. I realize it's simple, but until you explained it I never quite understood what type of equipment you would use it for. I have a feeling I'll be buying separates soon. But I need to buy my next e-drums first and that's going to run about $6K. So one thing at a time unfortunately. 

 Anyway, it's great to feel so welcomed in a community like this when your new and a rookie both. Thank you very much. Sorry if I come across as "mushy" sounding, I'm just a grateful type of person is all.

 Well, I better start planning on what type of music I want to pull out and have ready for my big delivery. That's going to be a chore in itself. The Compass seems to have so many options I'm not sure where I'll begin, I'm just a bit excited is all. Thanks again for the great info guys, I'll be sure to keep reading every post here on a daily basis.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who are interested to see how the upgraded (30) looks like:

 Hope it can bee seen now as I have also put it as attachments.._

 

Thanks for posting the pics, sandchak. You've just made the waiting even more agonizing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those RCA connectors look really sweet! I'm now starting to wish I had those on my test-version as well. 

 (In case some people are wondering, this is not yet the "final version" of the Compass. The new back and front plates are still being manufactured.)_

 

Sweet as candy! Can't wait to sink my teeth into them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Any of the Compass-18 picking up an Upgrade Version (V2a) or Final Version (V2b)? I wonder what the upgraded 24K connectors' impact on SQ.


----------



## sandchak

Thanks SeprentD for your kind words.

 Techfreakazoid, I feel it will be worth the wait.. I know quite a few of the 18 that will go for the V2b version (as you say), If I go into the impacts of 24K gold plated connectors on SQ, I will be entering into a very debatable discussion - all I will say gold plated connectors will provide you with better contacts and its anti corrosive - difference on SQ is very debatable, so I will stay out of it..

 Its going to be great when the next batch of Compass owners start posting their impressions.. methinks..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I go into the impacts of 24K gold plated connectors on SQ, I will be entering into a very debatable discussion - all I will say gold plated connectors will provide you with better contacts and its anti corrosive - difference on SQ is very debatable, so I will stay out of it.._

 

Wasn't the main point about those connectors that they're pure OFC underneath the 24K gold? I remember reading that somewhere, many pages back. Certainly, the connectors on the test-version are already gold-plated too.

 But you're right, best to stay out of the SQ comparisons. I think the main thing about those new connectors is that you can be sure that they can't possibly be a weak link in the SQ chain.


----------



## Joeoboe

The Compass kit is selling for $105 which seems like a pretty good deal:
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1
 The RCA jacks and Neutrik connectors are also for sale there along with the 50 watt transformer and power supply board. 
 It seems like you could choose a nice DAC board ( or perhaps make it with 2 or 3 switchable boards) and you would have a customized Compass...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But you're right, best to stay out of the SQ comparisons. I think the main thing about those new connectors is that you can be sure that they can't possibly be a weak link in the SQ chain._

 

I agree with you, what you say is the best way to look at it.. although silver plated is considered the best for its conductivity but gold plated makes it less prone to oxidization and 24K is more purer than 22K or 18K.. again IMHO.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like mbd2884 is evading his ban. I've reported him to the mods. Please pay no attention to him._

 

Good grief what did I miss!?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those RCA connectors look really sweet! I'm now starting to wish I had those on my test-version as well. 

 (In case some people are wondering, this is not yet the "final version" of the Compass. The new back and front plates are still being manufactured.)_

 

Those are indeed some handsome RCA jacks. Never thought I'd say that!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those are indeed some handsome RCA jacks. Never thought I'd say that!_

 

Imagine those handsome Jacks on the new designed rear plates.. I am already looking for the box in which my Compass came..


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Imagine those handsome Jacks on the new designed rear plates.. I am already looking for the box in which my Compass came.._

 

Mine is over in the corner of my room, waiting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm bitin' my fingernails waiting to see that the new panels came out 100%! I wonder when Kingwa will get them in, I haven't spoken with him since his last email to me a week or so ago (whenever someone here brought up front panel design topics again).


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good grief what did I miss!?_

 

Apparently Currawong thinks cynan=mbd2884. (At least, that's how I understood it.) I'm not too sure about that myself, but I'll let the mods figure this one out.


----------



## peanuthead

delete


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apparently Currawong thinks cynan=mbd2884. (At least, that's how I understood it.) I'm not too sure about that myself, but I'll let the mods figure this one out._

 

Fair enough, I didn't even know mbd2884 was banned until I saw Currawong's post! Not that I didn't see something coming (I figured a temporary time out might help him adjust how he responds).


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used to design/critique research studies for living. But I'm puzzled. How can you speak with such authority when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Same problem here, I'm a few months away from a PhD in Biology, and yes, that came across as pretty clueless to me as well. Speaking with authority will get you quite far though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But since this topic is not allowed in these forums, we need to cut this, no doubt very entertaining, discussion short. If there's any enthousiasm for it we can always transfer it to the "Sound Science" forum and take turns flogging the dead horse overthere.


----------



## csroc

I would enjoy seeing that conversation continue over there if the discussion could progress. In general there's a very strong dislike or distrust on this board for scientific approaches to studying things in the audio world. Unfortunately everything seems to end up in circular arguments with nobody listening to anyone else.


----------



## blue_lammer

I'm currently collecting funds to pay for my compass purchase. Does anyone have an idea of when we should ideally pay Kingwa so we can be on the first shipment?


----------



## K3cT

Back to topic, has anyone from this 30 units batch received their tracking number yet?


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *blue_lammer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm currently collecting funds to pay for my compass purchase. Does anyone have an idea of when we should ideally pay Kingwa so we can be on the first shipment?_

 

The final version will be shipped at the "end of March", I don't know how many he's making or if they will be sold out, but I'd think after this final version batch all compasses will be shipped at regular times, so you can order anytime from now to the end of May and still get the discount and fast building/shipping time.

 As for DBT, everybody knows audio is just too advanced for what puny protocols the medical establishment uses. I realized long ago that the best thing in scientific rigor is to listen to music 10 hours a day, and whatever you can listen to for 5 hours a day without wanting to switch is a good candidate for subsequent marathon listening experiments. Even Darwin would approve.


----------



## cynan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used to design/critique research studies for living. But I'm puzzled. How can you speak with such authority when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I would like to apologize for/retract my comment on that forbidden topic to those reading this thread. It was a bit unnecessary and over the top. There is no place for the provocation of any sort of animosity in a forum like this - which was apparently what my post did. Also, as I am new to these forums I did not realize the topic was out of bounds.

 I would like to maintain, for what it's worth, that I did not just post to cause a disturbance; the information I posted was accurate -but who cares? This is obviously not the place for any debate on the matter.

 Again, apologies. More of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and less of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now - back to the Compass :normal_smile:

 Does anyone know when Audio-dg will start shipping the DAC-3DV? I was all set to order a Compass, but then became intrigued by the 3DV with its new DSP technology (which would really start push my budget). With any luck there won't be any reviews of the 3DV for a little while so I will be forced to come to my senses and get the compass before the introductory price expires.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cynan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know when Audio-dg will start shipping the DAC-3DV? I was all set to order a Compass, but then became intrigued by the 3DV with its new DSP technology (which would really start push my budget). With any luck there won't be any reviews of the 3DV for a little while so I will be forced to come to my senses and get the compass before the introductory price expires._

 

There is a review of the DAC3-SE here. Which is basically the 3DV without the DSP-1. Although, as usual, it suffers from the problem that the reviewer doesn't have a DAC of similar quality to compare it to. (Rather unavoidable outside professional HiFi-reviewing, of course.)


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fair enough, I didn't even know mbd2884 was banned until I saw Currawong's post! Not that I didn't see something coming (I figured a temporary time out might help him adjust how he responds)._

 

Things have definitely been a lot more peaceful here lately. Good move mods!


----------



## senn_liu

being ultra-enthusiastic about the compass, i ordered one of the 30 upgraded (but not final) versions which are shipping now. unfortunately, with every time that i look at the final panel designs i wish more and more that i had waited so that i could have a product that looks as good as it sounds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i guess i thought i was above all the cosmetic considerations but turns out i'm just a shallow guy heh.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_being ultra-enthusiastic about the compass, i ordered one of the 30 upgraded (but not final) versions which are shipping now. unfortunately, with every time that i look at the final panel designs i wish more and more that i had waited so that i could have a product that looks as good as it sounds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i guess i thought i was above all the cosmetic considerations but turns out i'm just a shallow guy heh._

 

You could the order those panels separately later and install them yourselves.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could the order those panels separately later and install them yourselves._

 

yep, exactly what kingwa told me...


----------



## senn_liu

here's a very rough side-by-side image comparison of the upgraded panels and the final ones:






 the old front panel is fine, but the rear just looks pretty untidy. fortunately that won't matter when i'm listening to it!


----------



## peanuthead

The upgraded panels look really nice. Clean and classy.


----------



## Dat_Dude

I definitely like that back panel more on the "final version". I am glad I just placed my order this week. This next month is going to kill me with anticipation!


----------



## cynan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a review of the DAC3-SE here. Which is basically the 3DV without the DSP-1. Although, as usual, it suffers from the problem that the reviewer doesn't have a DAC of similar quality to compare it to. (Rather unavoidable outside professional HiFi-reviewing, of course.)_

 

Thanks for pointing this thread out.

 It seems a bit of a shame that Kingwa is not including optical/usb inputs on his new DSP-1 DACs. One of the things I love about the Compass is the versatility of the inputs. This would seem ideal for the DSP DACs as the DSP-1 technology (as far as I can tell) is intended to reduce jitter, something that is more prevalent in lesser digital sources - such as many of those fed by USB, for example. Kingwa seems to market the DSP-1 almost as an equalizer of source devices... 

 On the other hand, I suppose he doesn't envision many of his customers who are interested in higher end DACs to bother with lesser digital sources.

 Maybe Kingwa can add a DSP-1 option to the Compass


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_here's a very rough side-by-side image comparison of the upgraded panels and the final ones:






 the old front panel is fine, but the rear just looks pretty untidy. fortunately that won't matter when i'm listening to it!_

 

Looks like using the "new" back panel won't work with the upgrades, oh well like you said, it won't matter when we're listening.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_being ultra-enthusiastic about the compass, i ordered one of the 30 upgraded (but not final) versions which are shipping now. unfortunately, with every time that i look at the final panel designs i wish more and more that i had waited so that i could have a product that looks as good as it sounds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i guess i thought i was above all the cosmetic considerations but turns out i'm just a shallow guy heh._

 

Well if you're enthusiastic enough to use the word "ultra" then what's a third one? Would that make you the only owner of ALL THREE iterations? THAT's ultra-enthusiasm!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cynan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for pointing this thread out.

 It seems a bit of a shame that Kingwa is not including optical/usb inputs on his new DSP-1 DACs. One of the things I love about the Compass is the versatility of the inputs. This would seem ideal for the DSP DACs as the DSP-1 technology (as far as I can tell) is intended to reduce jitter, something that is more prevalent in lesser digital sources - such as many of those fed by USB, for example. Kingwa seems to market the DSP-1 almost as an equalizer of source devices... 

 On the other hand, I suppose he doesn't envision many of his customers who are interested in higher end DACs to bother with lesser digital sources.

 Maybe Kingwa can add a DSP-1 option to the Compass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think Kingwa, in his heart of hearts, would actually only want to equip his DACs with BNC inputs and CAST outputs, because that would be the configuration that would allow them to give their very best. He's willing to make compromises, as the USB input on the Compass and the DAC-100 attests and we might see further steps towards compatibility in the future. But he's really concerned that customers might not get the best from his equipment.

 The DSP-1 is, amongst others, a reclocking device. That means that it will mainly help in correcting jitter caused by the reading of an optical disc. Which consists basically of re-aligning the clock signal with the digital data stream. Computer sourced audio can suffer (or may not, I'm not getting into this discussion again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) mainly from different kinds of jitter, or perhaps more precisely from distortion. This is far more random in nature and is probably impossible to remove again from the signal completely.

 That's just my take on it, with very limited knowledge of digital audio.


----------



## senn_liu

do note that the "final" panels that are in the image i posted are mock-ups, not actual photographs of the real thing, so there is still a tiny chance that the new panels will fit onto the upgraded compasses, although that is highly doubtful due to the positioning of the rca jacks.

 scottieb, no idea what gave you the impression that i am one of the original 18 testers, but i'm not. i'm just one of those who ordered the next 30.

 anyway, when the compass eventually attains legendary status i can dig out my compass and proudly claim that i was there at the start, before it looked all pretty


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do note that the "final" panels that are in the image i posted are mock-ups, not actual photographs of the real thing, so there is still a tiny chance that the new panels will fit onto the upgraded compasses, although that is highly doubtful due to the positioning of the rca jacks.

 scottieb, no idea what gave you the impression that i am one of the original 18 testers, but i'm not. i'm just one of those who ordered the next 30.

 anyway, when the compass eventually attains legendary status i can dig out my compass and proudly claim that i was there at the start, before it looked all pretty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah. If anyone here knows about the legendary red-and-blue gaunt-ish looking CrossRoads Mylar X3, our 'old' Compasses will be the same in that respect.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cynan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for pointing this thread out.

 It seems a bit of a shame that Kingwa is not including optical/usb inputs on his new DSP-1 DACs...._

 

X2. I'm very interested in buying one of the new Audio-gd DSP DAC's. I'm still deciding between the 3DV and REF 1. Without a USB input, I guess I'll have to find a quality usb to coax solution that does not compromise/degrade the signal. Any suggestions????


----------



## ScottieB

Ah my bad senn... guess I just ASSumed... was just joking anyway


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think Kingwa, in his heart of hearts, would actually only want to equip his DACs with BNC inputs and CAST outputs, because that would be the configuration that would allow them to give their very best. He's willing to make compromises, as the USB input on the Compass and the DAC-100 attests and we might see further steps towards compatibility in the future. But he's really concerned that customers might not get the best from his equipment.

 The DSP-1 is, amongst others, a reclocking device. That means that it will mainly help in correcting jitter caused by the reading of an optical disc. Which consists basically of re-aligning the clock signal with the digital data stream. Computer sourced audio can suffer (or may not, I'm not getting into this discussion again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) mainly from different kinds of jitter, or perhaps more precisely from distortion. This is far more random in nature and is probably impossible to remove again from the signal completely.

 That's just my take on it, with very limited knowledge of digital audio._

 

I'm also wondering about using his hi-end DACs with a computer. 

 I've read that some USB only DACs avoid jitter by not using SPDIF, but go direct to I2S. Could he in the future adapt his DSP1 for use with a USB direct to I2S protocol? The specs on the audio-gd page say that it uses I2S as an input data format. What about for an asynchronous USB DAC?

 Forgive me if my question is jibberish. The web makes it easy for laymen to get in over their heads with the technical stuff.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like using the "new" back panel won't work with the upgrades, oh well like you said, it won't matter when we're listening._

 

I don't think that will be the case. There are two things on the back panel that cannot be moved, the USB and optical jacks, because they are PCB mounted. Everything else has reasonable range of movement and I can't see why you couldn't use the new layout with any of the older Compasses.

 The front panel would be a bit trickier only because the shielding around the power supply on the first two batches of the Compass with the old design would interfere with the Super switch. It's not a big issue, if you're a little bit handy I'm sure you could trim the excess to allow it to fit.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do note that the "final" panels that are in the image i posted are mock-ups, not actual photographs of the real thing, so there is still a tiny chance that the new panels will fit onto the upgraded compasses, although that is highly doubtful due to the positioning of the rca jacks._

 

See above. I created those simulated images after someone else had a similar idea. I had forgotten to do so although I originally planned to a while ago. I have the original source files and a real compass with which to take more ideal photos for creating the mockups.

 You can see where I originally posted those simulated images here (the versions I posted are bigger than those little thumbnails):
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5471303-post3463.html


----------



## crucial

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2. I'm very interested in buying one of the new Audio-gd DSP DAC's. I'm still deciding between the 3DV and REF 1. Without a USB input, I guess I'll have to find a quality usb to coax solution that does not compromise/degrade the signal. Any suggestions????_

 

I realize this thread is focusing on the Compass dac/amp but I am also attempting to decide between thw 3DV and REF 1 also. Any suggestions are welcome and we can certainly move this to its own thread if warranted.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm also wondering about using his hi-end DACs with a computer. 

 I've read that some USB only DACs avoid jitter by not using SPDIF, but go direct to I2S. Could he in the future adapt his DSP1 for use with a USB direct to I2S protocol? The specs on the audio-gd page say that it uses I2S as an input data format. What about for an asynchronous USB DAC?

 Forgive me if my question is jibberish. The web makes it easy for laymen to get in over their heads with the technical stuff._

 

I think that might be a little too specific, to make a usb input on the DAC only for a very specific kind of usb output. I might be a better option to buy a Squeezebox or something akin to a Linn media server (okay, Squeezebox is cheaper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and then use the ethernet connection from the computer and the s/pdif from the squeezebox into the DAC. I don't know if this is an ideal solution, but the fact that this type of connection is getting quite popular with some high-end manufacturers might mean this is the best option.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think that might be a little too specific, to make a usb input on the DAC only for a very specific kind of usb output._

 

Well, there does seem to be a market for USB only DACs, and I would think that it will only get bigger (well, leaving out the economy right now). There are plenty of USB only DACs out there. Whether asynchronous, I2S or whatever, it's all USB to the user.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I might be a better option to buy a Squeezebox or something akin to a Linn media server (okay, Squeezebox is cheaper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and then use the ethernet connection from the computer and the s/pdif from the squeezebox into the DAC. I don't know if this is an ideal solution, but the fact that this type of connection is getting quite popular with some high-end manufacturers might mean this is the best option._

 

I'm confused. I thought the point of the direct to I2S and asynchronous USB DACs is to avoid SPDIF. 

 Also, what's the advantage of the squeezebox or Linn? As long as you're computer is close enough to your dac, why not get your optical or coax out of a sound card, motherboard, or a usb converter, like LaidBack is interested in?


----------



## haloxt

The problem is that audio-gd has to get its hands on asynchronous mode audio drivers. Any takers? And while you are at it please please please fix the low latency drivers for windows.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The problem is that audio-gd has to get its hands on asynchronous mode audio drivers. Any takers? And while you are at it please please please fix the low latency drivers for windows._

 

True, that is a challenge. But Kingwa seems to be a bit of a magician, doesn't he? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, it's all speculation. Who knows if Kingwa is even interested. But apart from the drivers, is it possible?


----------



## haloxt

USB in asynchronous mode is supposed to be (as Kurt Vonnegut says) nice, nice, very nice. But who knows when such audio drivers will become readily and easily available? Only time.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_USB in asynchronous mode is supposed to be (as Kurt Vonnegut says) nice, nice, very nice. But who knows when such audio drivers will become readily and easily available? Only time._

 

So which DAC did Vonnegut like? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I recently read about asynchronous mode in some old threads from two or three years ago. You'd think that by now, there would be some drivers available, given how fast things change with computers generally. I guess that apart from a couple of companies, there isn't that much overlap between audio and computer people. Too bad, because it'd be much better for customers if those drivers were open source, rather than proprietary like Wavelength's. Makes it hard for people like Kingwa to push the boundaries of PC audio.


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_USB in asynchronous mode is supposed to be (as Kurt Vonnegut says) nice, nice, very nice. But who knows when such audio drivers will become readily and easily available? Only time._

 

Benchmark has pioneered asynchronous USB transfer to a DAC by licensing the driver from Centrance and integrating it in a TAS1020B chip (see DAC1 USB). Later on, other audio companies (like Empirical Audio) did the same to their DACs. So it is possible, but I'm afraid the driver licensing cost will be too expensive at a Compass price point. Should be great for Audio-gd reference line DACs.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Benchmark has pioneered asynchronous USB transfer to a DAC by licensing the driver from Centrance and integrating it in a TAS1020B chip (see DAC1 USB). Later on, other audio companies (like Empirical Audio) did the same to their DACs. So it is possible, but I'm afraid the driver licensing cost will be too expensive at a Compass price point. Should be great for Audio-gd reference line DACs._

 

It appears that they didn't use asynchronous mode, though they are up to something:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5124921-post2101.html


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cynan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems a bit of a shame that Kingwa is not including optical/usb inputs on his new DSP-1 DACs._

 

The Reference 3 DAC is going to be re-designed with USB input.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Reference 3 DAC is going to be re-designed with USB input._

 

That's good news. Did you get any info on the timeframe for availability?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's good news. Did you get any info on the timeframe for availability?_

 

Yes its good news, but keep in mind it will only support USB 48K/16Bit..

 EDIT - The entire thing about reference three was delayed because of re-designing to include a USB input, it seems like Kingwa has two choices at the moment, if its 48K/16Bit, it can be released as early as next month, on the other hand he is also thinking about 24Bit/96K, in which case the release will be delayed for 3-4 months..

  Quote:


 I'm bitin' my fingernails waiting to see that the new panels came out 100%! I wonder when Kingwa will get them in 
 

The new face plates should be in this week, I am interested too how close it will look to the designs you helped to create..


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It appears that they didn't use asynchronous mode, though they are up to something:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5124921-post2101.html_

 

You're right, the DAC1 uses synchronous USB transfer to it own proprietary reclocker, the Ultralock.


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_being ultra-enthusiastic about the compass, i ordered one of the 30 upgraded (but not final) versions which are shipping now. unfortunately, with every time that i look at the final panel designs i wish more and more that i had waited so that i could have a product that looks as good as it sounds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i guess i thought i was above all the cosmetic considerations but turns out i'm just a shallow guy heh._

 

This is part of my temptation to own two Compasses (Compii?). Current plan is to use the Compass at home, and have my D1 take up permanent residence at work. If I'm totally blown away by the Compass, I'll get a second at the promo price (likely relocating the older, less attractive model to my office). If I'm not ultra-wowed, the Compass will eventually move to my office, and home will get a high-end discrete dac and hp amp setup. The big question then is tu_be or not tu_be?


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Reference 3 DAC is going to be re-designed with USB input._

 

Ah this is good news for me, a possible upgrade option in the future


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The new face plates should be in this week, I am interested too how close it will look to the designs you helped to create.._

 

Wow, really? This week as in within the next few days maybe? Oh boy. If something is wrong I'll surely be banned


----------



## cynan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Reference 3 DAC is going to be re-designed with USB input._

 

So this means that the DAC-DV3 and Reference 3 are not the same thing? If not, will the Ref 3 be much of an upgrade over the DV3?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cynan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So this means that the DAC-DV3 and Reference 3 are not the same thing? If not, will the Ref 3 be much of an upgrade over the DV3?_

 

The Reference 3 is a Compass-sized DAC. It uses a better DAC and circuit than the Compass. Kingwa said next month it will probably be available.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Benchmark has pioneered asynchronous USB transfer to a DAC by licensing the driver from Centrance and integrating it in a TAS1020B chip (see DAC1 USB). Later on, other audio companies (like Empirical Audio) did the same to their DACs. So it is possible, but I'm afraid the driver licensing cost will be too expensive at a Compass price point. Should be great for Audio-gd reference line DACs._

 

I get the feeling from Kingwa and others here that he's not really that into USB audio. I hope he comes around to it in the next few years. I wonder how he'll implement the USB on the Ref 3.

 cynan, here's the old link to the Ref 3. It doesn't mean much at all b/c it's not updated and audio-gd doesn't even link to it any more, but it might give you an idea of what Kingwa is thinking about. 
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 Here's an interesting set of Q & As on the current state of PC audio.
ca intro

 I can't wait for Currawong's Ref 1 to arrive. Looking forward to his review and a discussion of Audio-gd dacs in an appropriate thread.


----------



## K3cT

A fellow Jabenite friend of mine has gotten his tracking number. I'm still waiting patiently for mine, gonna drop Kingwa an e-mail though.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, really? This week as in within the next few days maybe? Oh boy. If something is wrong I'll surely be banned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Well, thats what he said - he said !!.. so, just a couple of days left.. figured out your last wishes ??? !!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT - Well I think you are saved for a few days more !!.. kingwa received a few sample plates today, just a minor change needed (super is 1mm on the right and not something that can be actually noticed visibly, but still it will be rectified - methinks Kingwa is taking the design issue very seriously this time..), so the rest of the plates will be rectified accordingly - manufacturer said all will be ready next week .. I guess you can start biting your toe nails too now !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For the rest - all 30 upgraded Compass shipped including 120V !! guess we are in for a party..


----------



## K3cT

I finally got my tracking number but still unusable at the DHL site. Oh well.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, thats what he said - he said !!.. so, just a couple of days left.. figured out your last wishes ??? !!!...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT - Well I think you are saved for a few days more !!.. kingwa received a few sample plates today, just a minor change needed (super is 1mm on the right and not something that can be actually noticed visibly, but still it will be rectified - methinks Kingwa is taking the design issue very seriously this time..), so the rest of the plates will be rectified accordingly - manufacturer said all will be ready next week .. I guess you can start biting your toe nails too now !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For the rest - all 30 upgraded Compass shipped including 120V !! guess we are in for a party..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ooh I want to see! I'm going to bug Kingwa with an email 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm running out of nails you know! My last wishes... would be that a stork delivers one of the final Compasses to my door 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally got my tracking number but still unusable at the DHL site. Oh well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

They can take a bit to update sometimes.


----------



## Aleatoris

=( I wish I was one of the 30. But nooooo, I had to be indecisive about buying it.... Now I have to wait 'til April for my mass-produced version.


----------



## doping panda

I wish I was one of the 30 too, but I don't have any money right now. I spent it all on headphones.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ooh I want to see! I'm going to bug Kingwa with an email 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm running out of nails you know! My last wishes... would be that a stork delivers one of the final Compasses to my door 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I am sure he would oblige - after all he owes you one.. well after all the good and hard work you have put in, it will be a shame if you cant have one of those bad boys (well)dressed in black !!..


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Wonder if the original Compass' will become valuable in a few years as there will only be, what... about a hundred or two knocking about with the first design of faceplate? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Having said that I do think I will prefer the re-designed one. But it would be cool to know that you have a product that only a limited number of people in the world have.


----------



## dBs

Hmmmm, one of the thirty and no tracking number yet =X Might have to inquire in case there was a mistake or maybe I was beat to the thirty and am in the next batch.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmmm, one of the thirty and no tracking number yet =X Might have to inquire in case there was a mistake or maybe I was beat to the thirty and am in the next batch._

 

The 120V Compass were only shipped this evening, so I think the tracking number wont be there before tomorrow..

  Quote:


 Wonder if the original Compass' will become valuable in a few years as there will only be, what... about a hundred or two knocking about with the first design of faceplate? 
 

Makes me think, maybe I should keep my old Compass - even more so because as far as I know, out of the first 18, only Peete's and my Compass has the preamp line out with switch !!...


----------



## dBs

I should have had Kingwa autograph my Compass XD That would have been great.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am sure he would oblige - after all he owes you one.. well after all the good and hard work you have put in, it will be a shame if you cant have one of those bad boys (well)dressed in black !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

As appreciative as I would be of that, I certainly don't think Kingwa has to have a Compass sent to me by stork, although I wonder if it would be faster than DHL?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As appreciative as I would be of that, I certainly don't think Kingwa has to have a Compass sent to me by stork, although I wonder if it would be faster than DHL? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Maybe two storks? With a line, or a strand of creeper, held under the dorsal guidance feathers?

 [Sorry, obscure reference, but I had to make it. Let's see who gets it.]


----------



## Dat_Dude

That has to be Monty Python. It sounds familiar!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That has to be Monty Python. It sounds familiar!_

 

And the Kingwa autographed Audio-gd t-shirt goes to...


----------



## mrchyles

Anyone have experience with international deliveries that could give a decent estimate about how long the service Kingwa used to ship would take to deliver the package to the US?


----------



## ScottieB

^ In my experience, packages from China (including from Kingwa) have taken 5 to 7 business days to get to me. Not to shabby.


----------



## NotoriousBIG_PJ

I ordered one of the 30 to use with grados at work. A co-worker here owns a pico so I should be able to compare side by side, using the same phones and usb.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrchyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have experience with international deliveries that could give a decent estimate about how long the service Kingwa used to ship would take to deliver the package to the US?_

 

Anywhere from 3-6 + days on average. I've had stuff show up in as little as 3 days from Audio-gd but that was for HDAM modules which are pretty small. In any event the shipping service is pretty quick as long as Customs doesn't muck up the process which can happen from time to time (with anything coming in from overseas) with any courier service.

 Peete.


----------



## thelsuman

While I'm waiting....eternally waiting.....for my final stock version of the Compass to grace me with its presence, I just thought I'd take a moment to say "thank you" to everyone who has made a contribution to this thread, especially to Curra (if not the Father of the Compass, then at least the Godfather) & to Peete (master of the epic review...can't wait to see the rest of it!).

 Man...the wait is KILLING me!! I now have 2 headphones (Grado SR325i & Sennheiser HD650) and nothing to properly drive them. I'm dying to try these HP's with something worthy of them, but like some others, I passed on being one of "the thirty", & now have to suffer the consequences.

 To help kill the time, perhaps you guys can throw out some ideas for great CD (redbook) recordings as candidates for my Compass's maiden voyage with the afore-mentioned phones. I know everyone's got their favorite music genres, etc., but anyway if you want, just throw out whatever you think would be a cool listenening experience for a newbie with his first "real" headphone system.


----------



## cegras

Rodrigo Y Gabriela. A recent Wilco CD.


----------



## nsx_23

Quick questions for Compass owners. 

 Pro 900 + Compass? Good combo?


----------



## punk_guy182

Yo guys! Wussssup?!


 I have the HD650 and I'm seriously considering the Compass to replace my ZERO and perhaps sell LD MK IV SE.

 In comparaison to the ZERO, is the Compass:
 More detailed?
 Has wider 2-D and 3-D sound stage?
 Has more natural sound and has less digital sound?
 Has better instrument separation?


----------



## punk_guy182

Yo guys! Wussssup?!


 I have the HD650 and I'm seriously considering the Compass to replace my ZERO and perhaps aslso sell my LD MK IV SE.

 In comparaison to the ZERO w/ Earth-OPA & LT1364, is the Compass:
 More detailed?
 Has wider 2-D and 3-D sound stage?
 Has more natural sound and has less digital sound?
 Has better instrument separation?


----------



## dBs

Check up on the first page for the reviews. The most familiar with the Zero here would be Prickley Peete so his review should be the one you read with extra interest.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man...the wait is KILLING me!! I now have 2 headphones (Grado SR325i & Sennheiser HD650) and nothing to properly drive them. I'm dying to try these HP's with something worthy of them, but like some others, I passed on being one of "the thirty", & now have to suffer the consequences._

 

I know how it feels to not have a decent amp to drive very good headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and the wait time is a killer


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally got my tracking number but still unusable at the DHL site. Oh well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I also received my tracking number so it'll probably be a week or so before I join the Compass V2a-30 Head-Fi party! With two shipment batches this week and no CNY backlog, it'll be interesting to see the courier times.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

PG 182 it's a big step up the SQ ladder (in both aspects, DAC and AMP) over the Zero.

 You'll not be disappointed in the slightest with a Compass.

 Peete.


 PS Thanks for the kind words thelsuman ! Try this CD....Monster Magnet-Powertrip


----------



## K3cT

Now the painful waiting game begins.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NotoriousBIG_PJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered one of the 30 to use with grados at work. A co-worker here owns a pico so I should be able to compare side by side, using the same phones and usb._

 

I'm looking forward to the comparison. Should be interesting. Reminds me that I need to compare the Compass to my Corda Move.


----------



## dBs

Still no shipping notification for me =X If nothing by morning, Ill will shoot Kingwa an email.


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the rest - all 30 upgraded Compass shipped including 120V !! guess we are in for a party..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Well that's weird since I haven't received ANY email yet let alone the tracking other then my confirmation email a few weeks back, or how ever long ago that was. Oh well, I think any day I should if they were all actually shipped. Probably has something to do with the time difference as well, so maybe I can expect an email early today.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still no shipping notification for me =X If nothing by morning, Ill will shoot Kingwa an email._

 

Hey dBs, same here. I think we can expect something early today (by morning). Knowing the little I do about Kingwa and his company, they seem to be on top of things for the most part. It's easy to get impatient though, but I'll just wait and see what happens. Let us know if you do hear anything from Kingwa if you email him, or if you do get your email. Don't worry though, it will all be cool.


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man...the wait is KILLING me!! I now have 2 headphones (Grado SR325i & Sennheiser HD650) and nothing to properly drive them. I'm dying to try these HP's with something worthy of them, but like some others, I passed on being one of "the thirty", & now have to suffer the consequences.

 To help kill the time, perhaps you guys can throw out some ideas for great CD (redbook) recordings as candidates for my Compass's maiden voyage with the afore-mentioned phones. I know everyone's got their favorite music genres, etc., but anyway if you want, just throw out whatever you think would be a cool listenening experience for a newbie with his first "real" headphone system._

 

Dude, we're almost neighbors with me living in Fort Collins, just an hour away from ya, cool. Anyway I can relate about the wait. I happen to be in the EXACT same situation as you as far as being new to this hobby, the Compass being my first HP audio gear and even owning the same headphones (well at least the 325i's, didn't buy the 650's...yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I was and might still buy the Senn 650's, but I don't think my music preference would be too good for those from what I've read. Even though I enjoy most ever genre of music to some extent, 90%+ of my music collection is hard rock to extreme metal. I must say the Grado's are awesome for that stuff. At first I thought they were a bit too bright, but a around 40 hrs on them they are definitely calming down it seems. 

 By the way, how does everyone keep track of the amount of time they have on their equipment? Is there a special Hobbs meter that I'm not aware of. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just don't see how people keep track of this when they have so many different pieces they are tracking. 

 I'm also trying to figure out what I want to listen to when I get my Compass. What is your favorite genre of music? I'm leaning towards Dream Theater, Rush, Cradle of Filth and probably some NIN. Then some Jazz after my "metal" fix. Either way it will all get played eventually. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not only music, but I am also trying to figure out what source to use for my music. I haven't ripped any of my music into Flac or anything like that yet. Still need to figure that one out. Plus I don't have any specifically "good" cd players other then a few "ok" Sony's. But they were only more expensive due to them being recorders. I do have an oooooolld Denon from like '87 or so, but not sure if that's considered good by today's standards or not. Probably going to have to buy a new cd player I believe. I do also have my vinyl and a killer turntable setup, but I still need to figure out how to hook the Compass up to my gear. 

 Actually while I'm on the subject, does anyone know if or how I can hook this up to my receiver so I can switch between CD and Vinyl easier? I'm not sure how I am suppose to hook the compass up honestly. Not to mention the "best" way it should be hooked up, as in should I not even think about trying to hook it up to my receiver. 

 Sorry for all the questions and rambling. I'm in know huge hurry on anything and realize I still have a LOT to learn and research here. These were just some questions popping up in my head as I was typing. Peace everyone.


----------



## senn_liu

i just logged in to hotmail 10 minutes ago and saw an email from audio-gd with the tracking number.

 went to dhl's website, entered my tracking number, and just as i clicked "track", the doorbell rang, and it was the guy from dhl!

 never knew dhl's website had this "immediate delivery" function!

 exclamation marks!!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was and might still buy the Senn 650's, but I don't think my music preference would be too good for those from what I've read. Even though I enjoy most ever genre of music to some extent, 90%+ of my music collection is hard rock to extreme metal. I must say the Grado's are awesome for that stuff. At first I thought they were a bit too bright, but a around 40 hrs on them they are definitely calming down it seems._

 

Actually, potentially things like extreme metal would benefit enormously from better equipment. It's all about fast transients and resolving very dense music. All of these are real challenges to audio equipment. The problem is, of course, that most metal (and certainly the extremer subgenres) through the years has received quite mediocre recording and production values (the exceptions are extremely rare). Still, there are headphones that would work well for the genre, perhaps even the HD650 would. Personally I would recommend an AKG K240 (particularly an older Sextett or DF), others might recommend the Beyerdynamic DT-770 (I wouldn't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, how does everyone keep track of the amount of time they have on their equipment? Is there a special Hobbs meter that I'm not aware of. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just don't see how people keep track of this when they have so many different pieces they are tracking._

 

Honestly, I think a lot of the time most of us are just guessing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But in the case of the Compass I kept it playing and driving headphones 24/7, so the burn-in time was simply the same as the number of hours in the day.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not only music, but I am also trying to figure out what source to use for my music. I haven't ripped any of my music into Flac or anything like that yet. Still need to figure that one out. Plus I don't have any specifically "good" cd players other then a few "ok" Sony's. But they were only more expensive due to them being recorders. I do have an oooooolld Denon from like '87 or so, but not sure if that's considered good by today's standards or not. Probably going to have to buy a new cd player I believe. I do also have my vinyl and a killer turntable setup, but I still need to figure out how to hook the Compass up to my gear._

 

If any of those older cd players has an optical or coaxial digital output on the back (definitely rare, unfortunately, in budget 80's cd players) you could use that to connect it to the DAC of the Compass and get a big improvement over the original sound of the player.

 As to how to set it up, well that might take too far to discuss all of that in this thread. Basically, if you want the Compass to be the 'central hub' of your sound system, you might have a problem in connecting more than one analog source output to your Compass as it only allows for one. There's a way around this by using something like an RCA splitter, I believe there are some that wouldn't degrade sound quality too much.

 I guess what you need to tell us, is if you want to use the Compass for switching between outputs (where the Compass would be functioning as a preamp) or if you still want the receiver to work as your preamp (which, I gather from your post, it can). Actually, you should probably try both options and see what works best (i.e. gives you the best sound quality).


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just logged in to hotmail 10 minutes ago and saw an email from audio-gd with the tracking number.

 went to dhl's website, entered my tracking number, and just as i clicked "track", the doorbell rang, and it was the guy from dhl!

 never knew dhl's website had this "immediate delivery" function!

 excalamation marks!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congratulations!

 I believe Peete has had similar experiences in the past, DHL delivering before the tracking information was even available.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just logged in to hotmail 10 minutes ago and saw an email from audio-gd with the tracking number.

 went to dhl's website, entered my tracking number, and just as i clicked "track", the doorbell rang, and it was the guy from dhl!

 never knew dhl's website had this "immediate delivery" function!

 excalamation marks!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Holy hell, that was fast. Where do you live anyway?


----------



## senn_liu

i'm in singapore. yours should be arriving pretty soon, unless the customs there delays it.


----------



## senn_liu

pics of the front and rear of the upgraded compass, and a better comparison with the final panels:

front
rear
upgraded vs final

 hope the other 29 arrive soon.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually while I'm on the subject, does anyone know if or how I can hook this up to my receiver so I can switch between CD and Vinyl easier? I'm not sure how I am suppose to hook the compass up honestly. Not to mention the "best" way it should be hooked up, as in should I not even think about trying to hook it up to my receiver._

 

This should be easy: Hook the CD into one of the digital inputs, such as coax or optical. Hook your computer in via USB. Hook your turntable in to the "Line In". When you want to switch from computer to CD, use the middle knob. When you want to use your turntable, press the "S" button and the head-amp will be disconnected from the DAC part and take sound from the line-in, which you've connected your turntable to instead. 

 One other thing: You'll need a phono stage between your turntable and the Compass unless it has one built-in, because turntables output very low signals. If you're not sure, hook it up, and if you barely hear anything with the volume up high, then you need a phono stage.

 Am I making sense?


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm in singapore. yours should be arriving pretty soon, unless the customs there delays it._

 

Mine is still in HK it seems. The earliest I can get is tomorrow if customs don't do anything funny as I know DHL here delivers stuff on Saturdays.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well that's weird since I haven't received ANY email yet let alone the tracking other then my confirmation email a few weeks back, or how ever long ago that was. Oh well, I think any day I should if they were all actually shipped. Probably has something to do with the time difference as well, so maybe I can expect an email early today._

 

I think you should be receiving the tracking number today as it was only shipped yesterday, if you haven't as yet, you can write to Ms Cherry, who works for Audio GD, I find her very efficient and if its still office hours there, she will surely reply you.

 The rest I think Drosera and Curra has explained, I am sure your receiver has a phono input with ground..

 Btw, you can also check here if you want to make sure your Compass has been shipped.. ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## Hottuna_

Alright, I have succumbed to temptation and finally put in my order for the next batch.
 I hope it was the right move...

 Now I'll be playing the waiting game.

 Judging from the consignment page at audio-gd, Kingwa is not doing too badly in these times. Quite alot of sales there.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hottuna_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Judging from the consignment page at audio-gd, Kingwa is not doing too badly in these times. Quite alot of sales there._

 

High quality products for VERY reasonable prices? Even people that are struggling in this economy can appreciate that and scrape a couple hundred bones together.


 Sandchak, thanks for that link. I am in the "final batch" but will still be checking this site daily.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One other thing: You'll need a phono stage between your turntable and the Compass unless it has one built-in, because turntables output very low signals. If you're not sure, hook it up, and if you barely hear anything with the volume up high, then you need a phono stage._

 

Actually signal-amplification is not the most important reason for a phono stage, the necessary RIAA equalization is. Vinyl records have (deliberately) boosted high frequencies and attenuated low frequencies, these need to be corrected for the output to be as intended (this process acts as a kind of noise reduction). 

 Anyways, since you mentioned you have a good vinyl setup, you probably know all about this already and also know whether it has a phono stage incorporated.


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, you can also check here if you want to make sure your Compass has been shipped.. ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1_

 

whoa... I think I'm on that list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sent an email to Cherry to confirm... waiting just got easier and harder at the same time!


----------



## tinseljim

Serpentd said:
 "By the way, how does everyone keep track of the amount of time they have on their equipment? Is there a special Hobbs meter that I'm not aware of. I just don't see how people keep track of this when they have so many different pieces they are tracking."


 I've posted this elsewhere but fits in with this thread as well. Step by step:

 First you'll need a program like Audacity:

Audacity: Free Audio Editor and Recorder

 1) Download this pinknoise WAV. 

http://www.burninwave.com/download/pinknoise.wav

 2) Import the file into Audacity (free audio manipulation program) should be 1 minute long:

 Project -> Import Audio...

 3) Normalize the wav (this will make it's volume a 'normal level')

 Select the WAV then Effect -> Normalize... (using default options)

 4) Make it stereo

 a) Select the WAV then Edit -> Duplicate
 b) Select top WAV then from the little drop down list choose 'Left Channel'
 c) Select bottom WAV then from the drop down list choose 'Right Channel'

 5) Optional step to invert the phase of one of the channels (this will eliminate high volume levels of pink noise coming from the phones while burning in. when they face each other they will cancel the majority of sound out, still some will escape but overall volume is much less annoying!)

 Select bottom WAV (right channel) then Effect -> Invert

 6) Make it longer (for ease of use I make it an Hour)

 a) Select both channels (Shift while clicking second WAV for me on MacBook or just 'select all' from Edit menu) 
 b) Edit Copy (Cmd C or whatever)->click at the end of the wave form (or fn right arrow on Mac)-> Edit Paste
 c) repeat (or copy two minute section and paste that) till desired length

 7) Insert some silence (gives equipment/phones a rest) 

 Go to end of wav form-> select last 3-5 minutes of WAV -> Generate -> Silence 

 8) Save the file as a WAV or high quality MP3 etc. (i don't need to explain this!)

 9) Import into iTunes (for example) 

 10) Make sure play count column is visible

 11) Duplicate track in iTunes and rename it each time to whatever items you want to burn-in e.g. DAC, Amp, 325s, 650s

 11) Play the track matching what you want to burn in.

 Play count is equal to the hours of burn-in for each track (obviously)


 Sorry if this is obvious to everyone but I would have found these instructions helpful a few years ago when I was starting out!

 Peace,

 James


----------



## Drosera

^^^
 Very useful stuff. I would add that you can do the same thing with foobar, but in foobar you would just need to reset the 'total time played' under Preferences>Status display (at least, that's in foobar 0.8, in 0.9 it's somewhere else I believe) and it will just keep track of for how long foobar has been playing.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick questions for Compass owners. 

 Pro 900 + Compass? Good combo?_

 

I already answered you once but eh... imo Ultrasone Pro 900's are very sterile (I don't think this applies to the HFI or Edition series). I'm using a Pro 900 with compass, and if you are trying to remedy the neuter sound of the Pro 550 by upgrading to the compass you should probably pass. I have 200 hours on my Pro 900's but I'm very doubtful I can ever get it as fun as my HFI-2200's even with the nicely flavored opamps or Kees' Pro 900 mod (moon+stock Pro 900's is the closest I got, but I still have the urge to fall asleep at times). But if you enjoy headphones for just revealing details and fidelity by all means go for it, but personally now that I know what Pro headphones sound like I would've waited for a HFI open-back counterpart of the Pro 900's.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congratulations!

 I believe Peete has had similar experiences in the past, DHL delivering before the tracking information was even available._

 

I've noticed DHL's tracking doesn't seem to keep as up-to-date as some of the other couriers.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually signal-amplification is not the most important reason for a phono stage, the necessary RIAA equalization is. Vinyl records have (deliberately) boosted high frequencies and attenuated low frequencies, these need to be corrected for the output to be as intended (this process acts as a kind of noise reduction). 

 Anyways, since you mentioned you have a good vinyl setup, you probably know all about this already and also know whether it has a phono stage incorporated._

 

Sundew, you just explained something I had observed before and didn't know why it was happening. If you just amplify a phono signal, it sounds just like you describe. Shrill and strange sounding.

 .


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually signal-amplification is not the most important reason for a phono stage, the necessary RIAA equalization is. Vinyl records have (deliberately) boosted high frequencies and attenuated low frequencies, these need to be corrected for the output to be as intended (this process acts as a kind of noise reduction). 

 Anyways, since you mentioned you have a good vinyl setup, you probably know all about this already and also know whether it has a phono stage incorporated._

 

Thanks for correcting me on that. To tell the truth, all the amps my parents owned had built-in phono stages, so I just plugged them in there, knowing nothing other than if I didn't connect the Earth wire, I would have issues. It has been _many_ years since I've plugged it in too.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I already answered you once but eh... imo Ultrasone Pro 900's are very sterile (I don't think this applies to the HFI or Edition series). I'm using a Pro 900 with compass, and if you are trying to remedy the neuter sound of the Pro 550 by upgrading to the compass you should probably pass. I have 200 hours on my Pro 900's but I'm very doubtful I can ever get it as fun as my HFI-2200's even with the nicely flavored opamps or Kees' Pro 900 mod (moon+stock Pro 900's is the closest I got, but I still have the urge to fall asleep at times). But if you enjoy headphones for just revealing details and fidelity by all means go for it, but personally now that I know what Pro headphones sound like I would've waited for a HFI open-back counterpart of the Pro 900's._

 

Thanks for that info. I figured the Compass would be best with cans that were more "fun" sounding such as HFI-series and Denons. The same issue you describe would probably come up with AKG K701s as well, as they are extremely analytical.


----------



## iTetragrammaton

I am sorry for not reading every 4k post here, but I was just about to purchase an upgraded Zero for my backup / PC-listening, when I came across the Compass.

 1) Are they all sold out? Audio GDs pages are somewhat cryptic (or perhaps it's just me...)
 2) If no, will I get the upgraded & final version with new face plate etc. if I order one now?
 3) Is the headphone output acceptable (running my K271mkiis and HD650)?

 Thanks a lot!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sundew, you just explained something I had observed before and didn't know why it was happening. If you just amplify a phono signal, it sounds just like you describe. Shrill and strange sounding._

 

My pleasure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that info. I figured the Compass would be best with cans that were more "fun" sounding such as HFI-series and Denons. The same issue you describe would probably come up with AKG K701s as well, as they are extremely analytical._

 

I wonder what the impressions of the upcoming 30 Compass listeners will be with regards to the neutrality of the Compass. Kingwa is right to worry a little I think, some people are not ready for 'neutral'.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iTetragrammaton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am sorry for not reading every 4k post here, but I was just about to purchase an upgraded Zero for my backup / PC-listening, when I came across the Compass._

 

Sigh, and to think we've put so much effort into those 4000 posts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iTetragrammaton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) Are they all sold out? Audio GDs pages are somewhat cryptic (or perhaps it's just me...)
 2) If no, will I get the upgraded & final version with new face plate etc. if I order one now?
 3) Is the headphone output acceptable (running my K271mkiis and HD650)?_

 

1&2: The Compass is available for order, only the final version is on sale now (so, including new faceplates etc.) and I believe the next batch is scheduled to ship somewhere at the end of March.

 3: No, it's not acceptable!! It's much better than that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Basically it'll drive whatever you care to throw at it.


----------



## K3cT

The real battle has begun. IF I'm lucky, I should get it tomorrow but realistically speaking, it should be early next week.


----------



## senn_liu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that info. I figured the Compass would be best with cans that were more "fun" sounding such as HFI-series and Denons. The same issue you describe would probably come up with AKG K701s as well, as they are extremely analytical._

 

i'm using my compass with k701s, and it suits my tastes. i'm involved with audio production and, to me, "analytical" is a good thing. if you want to pay attention to the minute details, you can, but it isn't very difficult to just listen for enjoyment with an analytical setup either. 

 that's just weirdo me, though.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sundew, you just explained something I had observed before and didn't know why it was happening. If you just amplify a phono signal, it sounds just like you describe. Shrill and strange sounding.

 ._

 

There are a number of reasons that the highs are boosted and the lows reduced. Reducing the lows means the groove cut in the vinyl doesn't have to be as big (allowing more to be recorded on each side), also means less movement and wear and tear on your stylus.

 Reducing the highs later helps to cut down on high frequency surface noises.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are a number of reasons that the highs are boosted and the lows reduced. Reducing the lows means the groove cut in the vinyl doesn't have to be as big (allowing more to be recorded on each side), also means less movement and wear and tear on your stylus.

 Reducing the highs later helps to cut down on high frequency surface noises._

 

Somehow I'm not connecting your post to mine.

 .


----------



## iTetragrammaton

How did you guys order? Transferred money via Paypal with a little note on voltage enclosed?

 On a side note, I kind of liked the former "Ear Out"


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iTetragrammaton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am sorry for not reading every 4k post here, but I was just about to purchase an upgraded Zero for my backup / PC-listening, when I came across the Compass.

 3) Is the headphone output acceptable (running my K271mkiis and HD650)?

 How did you guys order? Transferred money via Paypal with a little note on voltage enclosed?_

 

Sounds terrible with the HD650. I believe that's what the 4000 posts were about. Just awful. Made me want to destroy the HD650 or the Compass, couldn't decide which. Read Peete's review, he'll confirm my sentiment. csroc encountered similar problem, his review is also posted. Listening to Billy Joel's The Stranger album with HD650, it's all I can do from driving chopsticks through my ears, unbearable.

 I prayed and hoped for the Compass and it appeared a few days later. I wrote about in my review, among the 4000 posts. It was incredible, I tried with the HD650 but the Sennheiser guru blocked my voodoo powers. Darn it.

 I'd read some of those 4000 posts, just throwing it out there.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds terrible with the HD650. I believe that's what the 4000 posts were about. Just awful. Made me want to destroy the HD650 or the Compass, couldn't decide which. Read Peete's review, he'll confirm my sentiment. csroc encountered similar problem, his review is also posted. Listening to Billy Joel's The Stranger album with HD650, it's all I can do from driving chopsticks through my ears, unbearable.

 I prayed and hoped for the Compass and it appeared a few days later. I wrote about in my review, among the 4000 posts. It was incredible, I tried with the HD650 but the Sennheiser guru blocked voodoo powers. Darn it._

 

One more Post and you're Headphoneus Sycophantus!!

 Congratulations

 .


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iTetragrammaton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How did you guys order? Transferred money via Paypal with a little note on voltage enclosed?
_

 

I didn't even include the voltage. I had him quote me prices via email and just included that exchange in the PayPal description. I assume since he knows I am in the US that he will know what voltage to send.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't even include the voltage. I had him quote me prices via email and just included that exchange in the PayPal description. I assume since he knows I am in the US that he will know what voltage to send._

 

Never hurts to spell everything out, but to be truthful, he'll know. He is not known for making mistakes. He will go out of his way to keep you from making a mistake. I've had a lot of conversations with him about customizations to the REF1, he is very quick to point out anything that will hurt SQ, and ask if you will accept the trade-off.

 .


----------



## iTetragrammaton

By popular request, I've now read the most relevant posts in this thread, and skimmed the rest.

 Conclusion: gotta have me a Compass! Think I'll throw in an extra 40 USD for the Moon and Sun opamps as well 

 I must say I truly respect the efforts put into this by the initiator(s), Kingwa and forum contributors.


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Serpentd said:


 Sorry if this is obvious to everyone but I would have found these instructions helpful a few years ago when I was starting out!

 Peace,

 James_

 

James, 
 Not obvious at all to us newbies waiting for a compass. Thank you very much for the detailed burnin and burnin clock directions. Perfect timing, I'm on the list to get one of the updated 30, but wasn't sure how I was going to do the burnin. I am going to Cabo next Thursday for 10 days, and want to have this burning in while I am gone.

 Just one or two questions. 
 1) How high should the volume be set during this burn in phase? Regular listening volume? A little higher than normal? Or?

 2) Whats a safe ratio to use for burn in/rest time? 50 min/10 min? or 30/5 or 45/15? Since I am going to leave this running for 10 days while I am gone I just want to be sure I don't hurt my Denons or the compass.

 Thanks in advance for any help.

 Mark


----------



## D.C.

Guys just placed my order for the new Compass...why did I wait so long...stupid. I ordered it with the 2 extra opa and the custom power cord. But the sun opa I ordered with the solen caps...I think sandchak recommended it. My HD650 arrived from the US but its stuck at customs...hmm that never happened before. Thank you guys for everything. Oh and MBD congrats on becoming HS some of you guys are also getting close, keep it up.


----------



## ttnl

Hi, I visited the Compass website, but still can't figure out how to order. I have a few questions regarding this DAC
 1. Do I place order by emailing them? 
 2. Do they charge at the time of placing order or at shipping time? 
 3. How well does the Compass do as a DAC comparing to Zhaolu or Yulong?
 4. How good is the amp part of Compass?
 4. Can I use this set up: Sony PS3 --> optical cable --> Compass --> M^3 amp --> HD600? 

 Thanks.


----------



## wdoerr

Placed my order last Monday after several E-mails with Cherry and Kingwa (E-Mail address is *audio-dg@126.com*). The only problem is there is a 12 hour time difference, so 1 E-mail per day.

 Thru a series of E-Mails we covered its availability (final version will begin shipping at the end of March), price (still $258.00), which options to include (why the Sun and the Moon, of course), paypal fees (4%), which shipping company to use, my shipping address and the voltage needed. 

 Kingwa said he would E-mail me when they began shipping, but I got nervious over all the publicity here and pulled the trigger. They seem reliable (famous last words).


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Placed my order last Monday after several E-mails with Cherry and Kingwa (E-Mail address is *audio-dg@126.com*). The only problem is there is a 12 hour time difference, so 1 E-mail per day.

 Thru a series of E-Mails we covered its availability (final version will begin shipping at the end of March), price (still $258.00), which options to include (why the Sun and the Moon, of course), paypal fees (4%), which shipping company to use, my shipping address and the voltage needed. 

 Kingwa said he would E-mail me when they began shipping, but I got nervious over all the publicity here and pulled the trigger. They seem reliable (famous last words)._

 

I wouldn't worry two Milli seconds about Kingwa.

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude, we're almost neighbors with me living in Fort Collins, just an hour away from ya, cool. Anyway I can relate about the wait. I happen to be in the EXACT same situation as you as far as being new to this hobby, the Compass being my first HP audio gear and even owning the same headphones (well at least the 325i's, didn't buy the 650's...yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). I was and might still buy the Senn 650's, but I don't think my music preference would be too good for those from what I've read. Even though I enjoy most ever genre of music to some extent, 90%+ of my music collection is hard rock to extreme metal. I must say the Grado's are awesome for that stuff. At first I thought they were a bit too bright, but a around 40 hrs on them they are definitely calming down it seems. 

 By the way, how does everyone keep track of the amount of time they have on their equipment? Is there a special Hobbs meter that I'm not aware of. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just don't see how people keep track of this when they have so many different pieces they are tracking. 

 I'm also trying to figure out what I want to listen to when I get my Compass. What is your favorite genre of music? I'm leaning towards Dream Theater, Rush, Cradle of Filth and probably some NIN. Then some Jazz after my "metal" fix. Either way it will all get played eventually. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not only music, but I am also trying to figure out what source to use for my music. I haven't ripped any of my music into Flac or anything like that yet. Still need to figure that one out. Plus I don't have any specifically "good" cd players other then a few "ok" Sony's. But they were only more expensive due to them being recorders. I do have an oooooolld Denon from like '87 or so, but not sure if that's considered good by today's standards or not. Probably going to have to buy a new cd player I believe. I do also have my vinyl and a killer turntable setup, but I still need to figure out how to hook the Compass up to my gear. 

 Actually while I'm on the subject, does anyone know if or how I can hook this up to my receiver so I can switch between CD and Vinyl easier? I'm not sure how I am suppose to hook the compass up honestly. Not to mention the "best" way it should be hooked up, as in should I not even think about trying to hook it up to my receiver. 

 Sorry for all the questions and rambling. I'm in know huge hurry on anything and realize I still have a LOT to learn and research here. These were just some questions popping up in my head as I was typing. Peace everyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi fellow DT Metal Man !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 650's do great with any genre IMO. 

 If your receiver has a phono stage (I'm willing to bet it does) then look for a Tape out section on the rear of the receiver (record out or tape out) and use that to send a line level output to the Compass analog input (requires the super "bypass" to be engaged).

 The Tape section of your receiver should have a monitor function (or not) that will monitor whatever input is being currently used so you can record it on tape. In any event this acts (record out, tape out) as another line level output meaning it's perfect for sending a correct level signal to the Compass. It will be unaffected by the receivers preamp section . If the unit does not have a tape monitor switch take the record out/tape out feed and try it anyway. It should work.

 This way you'll be able to take advantage of all the features of the receiver and slip a CDP into your head fi stage (via the Compass DAC). The receiver acts more like a integrated source switcher in this example.

 This also allows you to use your receiver's built in RIAA phono stage. Could you tell me what unit and model number you are using and I'll be able to give you specific directions of how to use it best with the Compass ?

 I hope that makes sense. I'm so used to Vinyl and what it requires that I completely forget that there is an entire generation now that have never used LPs and it's associated required equipment.....I guess that comes as a bit of shock to me that I'm definitely getting older 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rx7mark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_James, 
 Not obvious at all to us newbies waiting for a compass. Thank you very much for the detailed burnin and burnin clock directions. Perfect timing, I'm on the list to get one of the updated 30, but wasn't sure how I was going to do the burnin. I am going to Cabo next Thursday for 10 days, and want to have this burning in while I am gone.

 Just one or two questions. 
 1) How high should the volume be set during this burn in phase? Regular listening volume? A little higher than normal? Or?

 2) Whats a safe ratio to use for burn in/rest time? 50 min/10 min? or 30/5 or 45/15? Since I am going to leave this running for 10 days while I am gone I just want to be sure I don't hurt my Denons or the compass.

 Thanks in advance for any help.

 Mark_

 

I left my Compass on for two weeks straight. Normal listening levels are fine for your headphones. Some people burn-in with the music louder since the headphones aren't going to be on their ears. As long as it's not so loud that the headphones end up damaged. You can't hurt the Compass leaving it running continuously unless it's in some kind of extreme environment which the electronics weren't designed for (eg: arctic or desert).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttnl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I visited the Compass website, but still can't figure out how to order. I have a few questions regarding this DAC
 1. Do I place order by emailing them? 
 2. Do they charge at the time of placing order or at shipping time? 
 3. How well does the Compass do as a DAC comparing to Zhaolu or Yulong?
 4. How good is the amp part of Compass?
 4. Can I use this set up: Sony PS3 --> optical cable --> Compass --> M^3 amp --> HD600? 

 Thanks._

 

1, 2. On the payment options link, they have Paypal info. If you use Paypal, you'll be charged straight away (because that's how PayPal works). If this is a problem, you should email them and ask if you can place an order and pay when it's ready for shipping. None of us has had problems with just paying and waiting though. They run everything they sell for 100 hours to test it and give it an initial burn-in.
 3. Good question. We'd have to have someone compare them to know.
 4. Check the very first post, as I've linked to reviews and the like which will give you an idea. A quick answer is: pretty good. My C2C (another Audio-gd product) betters it, but then the C2C is a very high quality headphone amp.
 5. Yes, you can use the Compass just as a DAC in "Super" mode (bypassing the headphone amp altogether). If you get one, we'd love to hear how it compares to the M^3 as an amp.

 Check the FAQ I've started, linked in my signature. It should give you some more useful info.


----------



## idunno

Woohoo! Cherry just confirmed that my Compass is indeed on its merry way... More stellar service from Audio-gd; they shipped my order with the rest, despite my custom switch config!
 Well, that's one bit of good news on a Friday when nobody wanted to go out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I can wait in earnest.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks Tinsel Jim for that great burn in post (even if some members don't believe in such things it was very helpful/thoughtful to post).

 Peete.


----------



## dBs

I got an email as well for tracking number. I had seen my name on the list but its still good to have the number. Its currently in Hong Kong. Hopefully it comes this week since its spring break and Ill have lots of time to enjoy it =D


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Anybody have their tracking number and getting the tracking number still not found? I'm not overly concerned, if they said they sent - I believe they sent it. The customer service is incredible!

 But still, would like to see where its at - Obsessive thinking is a curse!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody have their tracking number and getting the tracking number still not found? I'm not overly concerned, if they said they sent - I believe they sent it. The customer service is incredible!

 But still, would like to see where its at - Obsessive thinking is a curse!_

 

Me thinks you should shoot a mail to Ms Cherry and confirm the number, maybe she sent mistakenly the wrong number (can happen with so many packages leaving the same day).. although I must add that in my personal experience DHL is notoriously slow sometimes in having tracking number up on their website..


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me thinks you should shoot a mail to Ms Cherry and confirm the number, maybe she sent mistakenly the wrong number (can happen with so many packages leaving the same day).. although I must add that in my personal experience DHL is notoriously slow sometimes in having tracking number up on their website.._

 

Thanks - Just sent her an email - I have heard that DHL can be very slow, UPS has done the same before.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks - Just sent her an email - I have heard that DHL can be very slow, UPS has done the same before._

 

Yes, but what I have experienced with DHL when it comes to shipping from that part of the world, is that once it leaves HK, it kind of picks up speed, unless its stuck in the customs in the destination country.. I feel its just a little chaotic in China with so many packages leaving that place to the rest of the world.. Btw, I hope she is working today (Saturday) and you get a reply..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody have their tracking number and getting the tracking number still not found? I'm not overly concerned, if they said they sent - I believe they sent it. The customer service is incredible!

 But still, would like to see where its at - Obsessive thinking is a curse!_

 

Lot of times those numbers won't go active for a few days especially Hong Kong Post/EMS. DHL, I don't remember how long it took mine to go active last time. But it's not like in the US and FEDEX/USPS/UPS. And I've had them take a few days with USPS.

 .


----------



## B00MERS00NER

If she is that would be great if not, I'm not going to worry too much about it. I have faith that between, cherry and Kingwa it will be taken care of.

 I can only try to imagine the number of shipments being process in HK - a headache instantly comes to mind. 

 time to start reading the writeup on how to burn all 3 hdams in at once, thats on the audio-gd site, right?


----------



## K3cT

My Compass is already in a local DHL hub and I'm going there in the afternoon to pick it up.

 As usual Customs imposed their own magical duty though, at about $20. Sometimes it sucks living in Indonesia.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 time to start reading the writeup on how to burn all 3 hdams in at once, thats on the audio-gd site, right?_

 

I think you are talking here about how to burn with all sound settings at the same time, which this time would be bright, neutral, soft one and two, by having all the jumpers inserted.. the default Earth OPA (HDAM) comes with 100 hours of burn in..


----------



## K3cT

First impressions: very clean sounding, transparent, and detailed. The sound signature really reminds me of the iBasso D3 albeit much more refined and detailed. Treble a bit harsh but should clean up with burn-in. 

 Using OPA Moon and at Neutral setting. More coming up later.

 Addendum: I hope I installed the jumpers correctly, this is for 'Neutral' setting. Picture below:


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Addendum: I hope I installed the jumpers correctly, this is for 'Neutral' setting._

 

Looks like you've done it correctly. Do you have it set to low gain? And at which volume level are you listening? (I'm just curious how the new lowered gain is working out.)


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like you've done it correctly. Do you have it set to low gain? And at which volume level are you listening? (I'm just curious how the new lowered gain is working out.)_

 

Ah, all right then. Yeah, it's at low gain and I listen to volume at about 8 to 9 o'clock.


----------



## K3cT

I think sibilance is pretty much 95% removed with the Compass and good lord, my D2000 is really loving the juice the Compass provides!


----------



## theBigD

K3cT, how is the soundstage with the d2000 and compass?


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_K3cT, how is the soundstage with the d2000 and compass?_

 

It is intimate should I say. You feel as if the musicians are around you in a small room. The level of spaciousness is just right for my taste. 

 I'm using OPA Moon right now and it has a bigger soundstage compared to OPA Earth. I prefer using the Moon with D2000, it complements it better. It just sounds slightly muddier against the Earth but the latter sounds too clean with the D2000.

 So far, the Compass sounds very solid-statey if you get what I mean with a touch of warmness.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is intimate should I say. You feel as if the musicians are around you in a small room. The level of spaciousness is just right for my taste. 

 I'm using OPA Moon right now and it has a bigger soundstage compared to OPA Earth. I prefer using the Moon with D2000, it complements it better. It just sounds slightly muddier against the Earth but the latter sounds too clean with the D2000.

 So far, the Compass sounds very solid-statey if you get what I mean with a touch of warmness._

 

Glad you are enjoying your Compass, all I can say from my personal and the many experiences out here, is that it will only get better as time goes by..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, all right then. Yeah, it's at low gain and I listen to volume at about 8 to 9 o'clock._

 

Ah, thanks for that. Given that the Denon's are quite low impedance, I guess the previous 7 o'clock is now 9 o'clock. I wonder if any of the others will still have trouble with getting it to play softly enough. Certainly sounds like any headphone will still get ample volume from just the low gain setting.


----------



## mbd2884

Congradulation K3cT. Glad you like it and it seems to have fufilled your expectations. But the OPAs with your preference confirms my suspicions. OPA works best with the headphones strength, using an OPA to try to change or add to a headphones SQ doesn't work too well.

 For soft play, not the best, but Foobar does still allow for volume change. Oh well. Even on the HD650, 300 ohm, I don't go past 10, unless its an unusually quiet track. I'm listening to Chevelle and 9 is too loud for this early in the morning. Well heading off to get ready for fist picnic of the year, little bit warmer now. For rock I found the AD900 has more snap and bit more fun. The HD650 has more detail on the lower mids and bass though. I'd say, AD900 you are close to the stage, HD650 you are sitting in one of the seats able to hear everything bit more detail.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad you are enjoying your Compass, all I can say from my personal and the many experiences out here, is that it will only get better as time goes by.._

 

Thanks. I certainly hope so, it will be quite an interesting journey to find out that.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, thanks for that. Given that the Denon's are quite low impedance, I guess the previous 7 o'clock is now 9 o'clock. I wonder if any of the others will still have trouble with getting it to play softly enough. Certainly sounds like any headphone will still get ample volume from just the low gain setting._

 

Did some people experience that? I mean not getting the volume to be soft enough with the first 18.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congradulation K3cT. Glad you like it and it seems to have fufilled your expectations. But the OPAs with your preference confirms my suspicions. OPA works best with the headphones strength, using an OPA to try to change or add to a headphones SQ doesn't work too well.

 For soft play, not the best, but Foobar does still allow for volume change. Oh well. Even on the HD650, 300 ohm, I don't go past 10, unless its an unusually quiet track. I'm listening to Chevelle and 9 is too loud for this early in the morning. Well heading off to get ready for fist picnic of the year, little bit warmer now. For rock I found the AD900 has more snap and bit more fun. The HD650 has more detail on the lower mids and bass though. I'd say, AD900 you are close to the stage, HD650 you are sitting in one of the seats able to hear everything bit more detail._

 

Thanks mbd2884. Yeah, it's certainly a good move to upgrade from Zero to Compass. The amp section in the Compass is just THAT much superior in terms of details and dynamics compared to Zero's headphone amp. The Compass also feels like a tank compared to the rather flimsy-looking Zero. 

 I agree with you with the importance of synergy between the OPA and headphone as my ears tell me that the Moon really loves the Denon! 

 As for your HD650, get a proper tube amp. You won't regret it. If you're looking for value, the Darkvoice 3322 won't dissapoint.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did some people experience that? I mean not getting the volume to be soft enough with the first 18._

 

I did have a little trouble with my most sensitive phones, the Grado SR-325i and the AT ATH-Pro700. It's not really that you couldn't get them soft enough. The problem is that all volume pots will have channel imbalance (regardless of the quality of the pot) in the lowermost part of their range, and it was hard to stay out of that lowermost 5% or so.


----------



## Zhirc

Huzzah, here's one another new guy on Head-Fi who also decided to buy Compass. Not so surprisingly, it's also a first external DAC/HP Amp for me, too. Though my headphones don't necessarily need amp (I've only got HD595 at the moment), i've listened them through other sources and inputs, and there has definitely been more power in the sound than when connecting directly through my PC's soundcard, but actual quality has been a lot more weaker due to dacs they had.

 However, I've got one guestion at the moment, hopefully not a too silly one...

 Besides playing PC-games and listening music, I would possibly like to use Compass also when playing some console games (for old-good SNES, Wii, maybe even PSP when at home), but I don't have a clue how I should connect those devices to Compass, if that's even possible at the moment. 

 Usually, if I wanted to connect SNES or Wii to headphones to get somewhat "proper" sound, I needed to use RGB-splitter's line-out to connect it to PC's line-in and then to headphones, and almost same way for PSP, too (it of course works directly with headphones, but has a weak amp like many other portables). Like one can imagine, that kind of setup is not very... practical.

 If I have understood it right, I could connect those consoles to Compass' line-in and then use "super" mode to only use the amp of the Compass. 

 Finally to my question... is there a way I could connect SNES/Wii/PSP to Compass so that I could benefit from it's dac _and_ amp, without using PC as medium? Like I said before, my SNES/Wii are connected to RGB-splitter that has line-out for L/R RCA (SNES/Wii and my current crappy CRT don't have any other audio-out lines) and PSP has only a one 3.5mm / 1/8" jack.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did have a little trouble with my most sensitive phones, the Grado SR-325i and the AT ATH-Pro700. It's not really that you couldn't get them soft enough. The problem is that all volume pots will have channel imbalance (regardless of the quality of the pot) in the lowermost part of their range, and it was hard to stay out of that lowermost 5% or so._

 

I tried to go as low as possible with my D2000 just now and yeah, I think I know what you mean. The imbalance is very subtle though.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with you with the importance of synergy between the OPA and headphone as my ears tell me that the Moon really loves the Denon!_

 

Nice to hear you're enjoying the Compass. I liked the Moon a lot with my MD5000s as well.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you are talking here about how to burn with all sound settings at the same time, which this time would be bright, neutral, soft one and two, by having all the jumpers inserted.. the default Earth OPA (HDAM) comes with 100 hours of burn in.._

 

Thanks, again! Thats what I was looking for.

 I got an email from Cherry about 30 minutes after I emailed her about the tracking number - just like sandchak mentioned: mixup with the numbers. Its all good now.

 K3ct thats good stuff man - trying to not have fixed expectations yet its really hard when you read these experiences with the same headphones. What kind of music are you listening to?


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice to hear you're enjoying the Compass. I liked the Moon a lot with my MD5000s as well._

 

Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think we lot owe you one for creating this thread. 

 P.S. No Denon smiley yet? 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ K3ct thats good stuff man - trying to not have fixed expectations yet its really hard when you read these experiences with the same headphones. What kind of music are you listening to?_

 

I listen to a wide variety of genre but mostly jazz, rock, pop, and instrumental. The Compass is good for this as it's transparent and doesn't color the sound too much.


----------



## K3cT

Minor quibble: I don't really like the Neutrik locking jack. The looks don't match the faceplate and the red level is rather stiff to push. It's a little annoying.


----------



## direcow

Sigh, the packaged arrived at DHL this morning to the processing center at 7am, then the delivery facility at 9am.

 Then. Nothing.

 Sigh. Monday it is then. At least one of the 2 Singaporeans has his. K3cT good to know you're finding a good match with denons... I'll compare mine once I get it.


----------



## direcow

*double post*


----------



## senn_liu

direcow, you must be alvin right? i think mine arrived so soon because i ordered pretty early, in mid february. there are still 10 people who did a mass order for the final version waiting for theirs...


----------



## rx7mark

I just got my tracking number.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Currently departing Hong Kong!

 Mark


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rx7mark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my tracking number.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Currently departing Hong Kong!

 Mark_

 

X2!


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Minor quibble: I don't really like the Neutrik locking jack. The looks don't match the faceplate and the red level is rather stiff to push. It's a little annoying._

 

I sometimes think that it should be a regular headphone jack, but it grips the plug well, which is important for good sound.


----------



## greenarrow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_direcow, you must be alvin right? i think mine arrived so soon because i ordered pretty early, in mid february. there are still 10 people who did a mass order for the final version waiting for theirs..._

 

You, one lucky guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm one of the 10 in the MO group and is waiting for the organiser for any update. The waiting is *KILLING* me. Oh, my poor K702.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sometimes think that it should be a regular headphone jack, but it grips the plug well, which is important for good sound._

 

I agree with you Curra, I believe the sound factor is the most important thing out here, even though there was a funny incident (at least for me) attached to it.. The first time I received the Compass, my wife tried one of the old Sony headphones we have - she kind of had a problem taking out the headphones and asked me if there was any password for it !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.. well, I told her that she had to press the red lever, press she did, but in the process broke her nails !!..and the look she gave me could well have been the worst advertisement for Compass !.. But still I agree with you !!..


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_direcow, you must be alvin right? i think mine arrived so soon because i ordered pretty early, in mid february. there are still 10 people who did a mass order for the final version waiting for theirs..._

 

Yep Alvin here... I paid 13th of Feb, but maybe you're just that little bit earlier than me...

 Nope, not part of the mass order... I MUST GET IT FIRST GRRRT etc... Can't wait!


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with you Curra, I believe the sound factor is the most important thing out here, even though there was a funny incident (at least for me) attached to it.. The first time I received the Compass, my wife tried one of the old Sony headphones we have - she kind of had a problem taking out the headphones and asked me if there was any password for it !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. well, I told her that she had to press the red lever, press she did, but in the process broke her nails !!..and the look she gave me could well have been the worst advertisement for Compass !.. But still I agree with you !!.._

 

This is funny 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, the jack really grips the headphone plug. Lately, I attached a grado extension cable so I can change cans easily plus it's long enough for me to listen to my cans while in bed


----------



## K3cT

Well, I guess it's a little price to pay for superior sound but I do miss the convenience of the normal jack. I can imagine bringing this to meets and trying different cans with it though, it's going to be a PITA! 

 20 hours burn-in and so far no major difference in sound except the treble is a little bit smoother now.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the jack really grips the headphone plug. Lately, I attached a grado extension cable so I can change cans easily plus it's long enough for me to listen to my cans while in bed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

thats a great idea.. maybe I have to try that myself - Thanks..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


 20 hours burn-in and so far no major difference in sound except the treble is a little bit smoother now. 
 

That is the first thing I realized myself.. the next changes I noticed was more focussed sound stage and better dynamics..


----------



## senn_liu

this may not be the right place to post this, but just a try:

 i've been attempting to use foobar2k/jriver media center-->asio4all v2-->compass via usb. i've set everything up properly as far as i can tell, but there is no output to the compass. any idea why?

 in foobar, when i set the output to directsound usb audio device it works fine, but if i choose asio4all, there is no sound. in asio4all itself, i've setup the compass, no problems there.

 with jriver, i chose the output as asio4all as well, and asio4all shows up in the bottom right hand corner of the taskbar, but there's no output audio.

 really lost here.


----------



## senn_liu

i followed this guide:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/ea...torial-402765/

 the only problem i encountered was that under the step "ASIO4ALL Settings in Foobar", the compass did not show up there, only my soundcard did. however, the compass does show up in the asio4all control panel itself.


----------



## senn_liu

ok, for no apparent reason it showed up. problem solved.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, for no apparent reason it showed up. problem solved._

 

Computers do that sometimes


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Computers do that sometimes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

"Most problems, when ignored, will usually solve themselves." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Ancient system administrator wisdom


----------



## mbd2884

Media Monkey FTW!!!

 Easiest file management system with complete customization from what mp3 decoder you want to use and Otachan's ASIO > Foobar ASIO

 And still think Foobar's internal software volume control is complete BS.


----------



## LostOne.TR

What was wrong with it?


----------



## mbd2884

That is still works in ASIO output. ASIO output is supposed to eliminate any changes to the music and just output it to your specified device.

 WinAmp, Media Monkey and probably any other software MP3 players completely disable volume control when using ASIO output. Also with Foobar I'm constantly having to remap the channels when I use Compass or if just use internal soundcard, and well I'm fed up, tired of doing it, it's annoyed me too many times already. 

 Foobar knows better or something. And they have made it harder so it seems plugins are only for Foobar. Whereas plugins for Winamp And Media Monkey are not proprietary.

 But if you don't mind what Foobar is doing, it's a great media player. 

 FYI, if you can figure out Foobar's confusing customization, the version 0.8.3 can use Otachan and disable volume control. haloxt has linked various ways to setup media players and instructions for the 0.8.3 version of Foobar.


----------



## haloxt

Anyone else get that channel remapping issue with foobar? I've only had it reset on me once but I can't repeat it, would like to know what's causing it though.

 mbd2884: I made a mistake in that PM I sent you, I meant to say 0.9x and 0.8x (not 0.9x again lol) both have volume control BECAUSE it is a built-in DSP. Asio connects the media player to the compass in a more direct path, avoiding window's volume control. But leaving volume control off might be best for sound quality, I'm not sure.

 senn liu: If your compass is off it will not be detected by the computer. If anyone wants a step by step guide to setting up ASIO go to page 237, it's probably not perfect so let me know if you run into any trouble with the guide.


----------



## LostOne.TR

Foobar doesn't offer you two different output devices with Asio? (one for compass, and one for internal sound card) Been awhile since I've messed with it, but I believe you should be able to have 2 configured virtual Asio devices and forgo the need to remap.

 Will look into the 0.8.3 with otachan, sounds interesting.


----------



## iTetragrammaton

I've ordered my Compass now, with the additional Moon and Sun V2. Excellent communication with Audio GD, by the way.

 Now I'm entering the blissful state of waiting for production, waiting for shipping and hoping it arrives without being trashed by the shipper.


----------



## driftingbunnies

just ordered my compass last night. very helpful. I asked if they could output all three at the same time so i could use it just like how i'm using my emu 0202 and they said yes. 

 Hopefully this will totally destroy what i have now and keep me blissfully happy until i'm retired and have mounds of money to spend.


----------



## sarathcpt

sorry...I feel this thread is becoming long and confusing. Instead of discussing anything and everything about compass in just a single thread, right from ordering/shipping details ,initial impressions and so on... isn't it better to split it into different threads ?


----------



## JackKander

has anyone tried the Moon OPA with a pair of HD650s? Any impressions?


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry...I feel this thread is becoming long and confusing. Instead of discussing anything and everything about compass in just a single thread, right from ordering/shipping details ,initial impressions and so on... isn't it better to split it into different threads ?_

 

I think once people will start receiving the final version of Compass, it would be appropriate to start a new thread. It will probably be better to do it in the Computer Audio forum than Amps, since Compass is more of a DAC than an amp, and that is where all other USB DAC/amp combos are (DAC1, Keces, etc).


----------



## K3cT

I'm trying the different jumper settings and have just found out that the differences between one setting to another is quite subtle, mainly in treble extension.


----------



## HammerSandwich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked if they could output all three at the same time so i could use it just like how i'm using my emu 0202 and they said yes._

 

Please explain this more specifically.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Getting closer

 15 Mar 09 3:26 PM - Processing for clearance - Los Angeles Gateway,United States Of America


----------



## dBs

Same. Now we hold our breath that they dont get mean with customs =X "Clearance Delay...Processing for Clearance".


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry...I feel this thread is becoming long and confusing. Instead of discussing anything and everything about compass in just a single thread, right from ordering/shipping details ,initial impressions and so on... isn't it better to split it into different threads ?_

 

That's why I update the first post with info and reviews, and why I've written a FAQ. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm thinking though of soon asking a mod to close this thread and starting a new "impressions" or "owners" thread.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think once people will start receiving the final version of Compass, it would be appropriate to start a new thread. It will probably be better to do it in the Computer Audio forum than Amps, since Compass is more of a DAC than an amp, and that is where all other USB DAC/amp combos are (DAC1, Keces, etc)._

 

Way to make a statement about the Compass when you obviously lack knowledge of it nor have you heard them. Good job.

 For others who are still looking for more information, the Compass has a complete Amp that works as an excellent detailed, neutral SS amp and as a Pre-Amp. It's not 50%, its 100% full amplifier that just happens to be in the same case as the DAC. And it's not more of a Amp, it's a complete DAC that just happens to be in the same case as the Amp. It's that simple.

 Well enjoy your Compass, maybe you'll stop spreading false information after you've listened to it.


----------



## DayoftheGreek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Way to make a statement about the Compass when you obviously lack knowledge of it nor have you heard them. Good job.

 For others who are still looking for more information, the Compass has a complete Amp that works as an excellent detailed, neutral SS amp and as a Pre-Amp. It's not 50%, its 100% full amplifier that just happens to be in the same case as the DAC. And it's not more of a Amp, it's a complete DAC that just happens to be in the same case as the Amp. It's that simple.

 Well enjoy your Compass, maybe you'll stop spreading false information after you've listened to it._

 

I think what he is saying is that nobody who wants an amp (because they already have a standalone DAC) would buy a combo. Most people will be buying it for the DAC, and the amp is icing on the cake.

 Good to see you continuing to misunderstand and overreact.


----------



## dBs

Ugh, well it was fun while it lasted...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ugh, well it was fun while it lasted..._

 

You mean Peace and Harmony, kinda like a Coke Commercial?

 .


----------



## idunno

Mine's in Boston now... Clearly, I'll be super focused and productive at work tomorrow


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine's in Boston now... Clearly, I'll be super focused and productive at work tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Lol, just do yourself and your employer a favor...call in sick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "Clearance processing complete"

 Woo! Now I wait =X Luckily (?) I have a lot to do/worry about to keep me distracted through tomorrow at least.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Yee Haw!
 15 Mar 09 8:07 PM - Clearance processing complete - Los Angeles Gateway,United States Of America


----------



## sandchak

Seems like the final version of the Compass is up on Audio GD website..

 Nice Work Carl !!..












  Quote:


 I think what he is saying is that nobody who wants an amp (because they already have a standalone DAC) would buy a combo. Most people will be buying it for the DAC, and the amp is icing on the cake. 
 

I think one cant ignore the fact that both the DAC and HP amp of Compass is as good as it can get at the price compared to standalone DAC or HP amp, thus buying it as a Combo to me is the wisest option. The icing on the cake would be the preamp, if you read Peete's review you will understand what I am trying to say.


----------



## driftingbunnies

To whoever wanted to know, i asked if the headphone, dac out, and preamp could output all at the same time and they said it's possible. Right now i use my emu to output to A2's, ld2+, and a pair of headphones so the compass can replace exactly what the emu did.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To whoever wanted to know, i asked if the headphone, dac out, and preamp could output all at the same time and they said it's possible. Right now i use my emu to output to A2's, ld2+, and a pair of headphones so the compass can replace exactly what the emu did._

 

Audio-gd said it's possible, or did they say they could wire it for you so it's possible?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems like the final version of the Compass is up on Audio GD website..

 Nice Work Carl !!..














 I think one cant ignore the fact that both the DAC and HP amp of Compass is as good as it can get at the price compared to standalone DAC or HP amp, thus buying it as a Combo to me is the wisest option. The icing on the cake would be the preamp, if you read Peete's review you will understand what I am trying to say._

 

Oh damn, look at that! I almost feel proud!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking though of soon asking a mod to close this thread and starting a new "impressions" or "owners" thread._

 

Methinks closing this thread isn't a good idea, I understand its becoming long, but at the same time you are regularly updating the first page and FAQ, which basically covers most if not all the questions people are asking.. maybe opening a parallel thread about impressions or owners would be better - but then that was tried earlier as a separate group by csroc too, but I don't think it worked out..Anyway, this is how I personally feel - you would be in a better position to decide..

  Quote:


 Oh damn, look at that! I almost feel proud! 
 

Well you should be after all the sleepless nights you had to go through - I think the final version owners owe you a big thanks and older version owners might be.... looking for boxes for return ship, like me !..


----------



## driftingbunnies

They said they could wire it for me so that it's possible. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audio-gd said it's possible, or did they say they could wire it for you so it's possible?_


----------



## direcow

Mine came in this morning!! Burning in as we speak... I pretty much don't feel like getting the new plates, this looks pretty awesome.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The pictures vs in person are two different things for sure. The next week or two should be interesting as more and more customers have some units to listen to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I look forward to all the sound quality evaluations and impressions !

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Hi Peete,

 It seems like you have gone into some kind of hibernation !!.. I am looking forward to the rest of your review - very patiently...


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The pictures vs in person are two different things for sure. The next week or two should be interesting as more and more customers have some units to listen to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I look forward to all the sound quality evaluations and impressions !

 Peete._

 

Dont get too excited XD At least for me. I know that more than a few others are like me in that this is my first REAL amp. The comparisons to other DACs/Amps will be pretty slim. I suspect there will be quite a few comparisons to the Mini3 though, lol. Ill be one of them.

 Im just going to try and express the impressions I get more on how well it works and how it presents genres of music. I know rock is extremely well represented, classical is decently represented, trance is a biiiit harder to find good impressions with. As thats one of my main genres, Ive tried to consistently give solid impressions with that type of music.

 This is actually going to become an interesting review (for me at least), as Im not going to simply be reviewing the Compass here. I just made an order for a Double Heelix Cable for my HD650s from a fellow Head-Fi'er who is looking to maybe dabble in custom cable making for fun. Ill be reviewing that likely in the same review since the Compass will be the only amp that I have besides the Mini3 which, while nice, isnt really what the HD650 or DT770 demand.

 In any case, Ill do my best to please =)


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine came in this morning!! Burning in as we speak... I pretty much don't feel like getting the new plates, this looks pretty awesome._

 

Nice, man! I'm waiting for your impressions.


----------



## mattcalf

If I can round up the money before the promo price ends, I'm in!
 Wish me luck.


----------



## nsx_23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mattcalf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I can round up the money before the promo price ends, I'm in!
 Wish me luck. _

 

x2 on this one. I'll definitely try and save up enough $$$ to get this at the promo price. Should go nicely with the Pro 900s I recently purchased 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Come on Aussie dollar, go back up in value.....


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol, just do yourself and your employer a favor...call in sick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

if only I didn't have it shipped to my office


----------



## greenarrow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine came in this morning!! Burning in as we speak... I pretty much don't feel like getting the new plates, this looks pretty awesome._

 

Congrat on the arrival of your Compass .. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope to see a short review soon. Say, you must be the second person in SG to receive the Compass. I'm still waiting ...


----------



## insyte

Congrats to the new compass owners


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice, man! I'm waiting for your impressions._

 

something quick I guess - sounded like some kind of veil was present out of the box. There was probably some head burn-in, since 4 hours in it's beginning to sound beautifully better... and my d5k is probably fully burned in by now.

 Then I thought about it - that's right, I'm burning in at soft2 mode... So I'll let it burn in more before I finally make a decision... soft mode is probably not meant for me.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The pictures vs in person are two different things for sure._

 

Definitely, you don't get a sense of its proportions or build quality from the pictures. And the original panel looks better in person than you'd expect from the pictures.


----------



## senn_liu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then I thought about it - that's right, I'm burning in at soft2 mode... So I'll let it burn in more before I finally make a decision... soft mode is probably not meant for me._

 

based on my casual listening in soft 2 mode thus far, i really doubt i will ever feel the need to use this mode. there is just too much attenuation of the treble for me. i will probably use neutral the most, and maybe soft 1 once in a blue moon, but that's it. this is with akg k701s. i believe that perhaps only grado users will use the soft modes with any sort of regularity at all.

 also, although the lower gain option is now 9db, i still find that there's more gain than i will probably ever need. i never feel the need to go past 10 o'clock on the volume knob. in fact, the knob almost always stays at 9 o'clock.


----------



## senn_liu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Definitely, you don't get a sense of its proportions or build quality from the pictures. And the original panel looks better in person than you'd expect from the pictures._

 

just prior to receiving my upgraded compass, i did have doubts about whether i should have waited for the final version, but when i saw the actual thing for myself, the only sentiment i had was "this looks like a really solid piece of equipment". though the front and rear are relatively untidy/less slick when compared to the final version, they also give the compass a certain humble charm. ok, so maybe these are just the ramblings of an infatuated new owner


----------



## scootermafia

Dang, that new compass looks fresh...good job to its faceplate design team here + Kingwa


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dang, that new compass looks fresh...good job to its faceplate design team here + Kingwa_

 

I see you use NAPA brand Tube Dampers also 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_based on my casual listening in soft 2 mode thus far, i really doubt i will ever feel the need to use this mode. there is just too much attenuation of the treble for me. i will probably use neutral the most, and maybe soft 1 once in a blue moon, but that's it. this is with akg k701s. i believe that perhaps only grado users will use the soft modes with any sort of regularity at all._

 

I liked the soft modes after burn-in increased the dynamics, it is less fatiguing.


----------



## idunno

My Compass arrived this morning, and sat under my desk for a full 15 minutes before I realized that I’d never make it to lunch before opening it up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I’m quite pleased with its appearance and build quality.

 Immediate impressions of sq are very favorable. In comparison to my iBasso D1 (my only reference) there is a dramatic improvement in clarity, detail, depth of soundstage, prat, and bass impact. The improvement over the D1 is similar to the D1’s improvement over integrated pc audio, imo. The Compass has so far been enough to alleviate my boredom with the DT-250 I’ve been using at work. The only problem is that tomorrow I’ll have to go back to the D1; I expect that its days are numbered.

 I can’t wait to get this thing home, and try it out with the DT-880 and HD650. As good as it sounds now, the idea that it’s going to improve with use is quite exciting.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

OK - I'm done reading this thread until I get my Compass gets here, currently on hold in LA.

 The suspense is killing me and I don't do well with delayed gratification, well there was that little redhead in Dallas that did this thing... 

 Congratulations on everyone getting theirs, and I will try to not get any resentments in the meantime.


----------



## Sganzerla

I have some questions to people of the first batch:

 How much time to end burn-in of Soft settings?
 How much time to end burn-in of Compass?

 I would like to read some personal toughts about this.


----------



## punk_guy182

I'm considering getting the OPA-Moon and OPA-Sun while getting the Compass at the same time. Where can I find a mini review of them with their sound caracteristics?


----------



## AustinIsWierd

I'm on vacation and my DHL came today... How many days will they try before giving up? How do I tell them to leave it without signature or schedule a delivery?

 Dale


----------



## mrchyles

What sound mode does the compass default in?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AustinIsWierd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm on vacation and my DHL came today... How many days will they try before giving up? How do I tell them to leave it without signature or schedule a delivery?

 Dale_

 

Eep bad timing. I'd say if you can't be there to sign the slip and leave it on the door, call DHL with your tracking # and see if they can hold it and try to deliver when you get back. You can sometimes have packages redirected too but whether they'll do that or not is another matter.


----------



## Eric M

Is everyone ordering theirs from audio-gd.com? Or is it still only for testers? The site hasn't been working for me today.


----------



## punk_guy182

*i got my answer*


----------



## dBs

I got mine today. Most significant initial impression; smooth. The sound is very smoth compared to my X-Fi or Mini3. I wont judge the sound yet since itll be burning in for quite some time. Heard at least one element in a song I had never heard before, which is always a fun experience.

 Otherwise I have some pictures for those who arent pictured-out yet:

 This sucker is BIG! I put a soda can beside it (and a CD later on) to give it a sense of scale.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...passisBIG2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...passisBIG1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...passisBIG3.jpg

 How the Compass was packaged and shipped. The loose items (HDAMs, cables, etc) were tucked onto the left and right side with extra foam to cover them.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...ssPackaged.jpg

 I think there might have been a shipping mistake XD Its a proper 110V PSU buuut...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...mpassWOOPS.jpg
 ...its a good thing I have plenty of spares around.

 Internals. The sticker on the PSU board, apparently this PCB and/or unit was built on my 26th Birthday! Good luck/ironic Compass! =D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...pyBirthday.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...CompassDAC.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...CompassAmp.jpg

 The new back.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...eyShotBack.jpg

 As you can see, Im no professional photographer, but sometimes even we simpletons get lucky. This turned out to be one hell of a nice product shot. Im willing to send out the full sized version if anyone thinks they can make a photoshop pro manipulation of it. Good enough for a legitimate product shot maybe?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...ediumSized.jpg

 It will be a while before I do a full review of it. In the mean time, if there are any requests for info about the new versions, pictures you want taken, feel free to ask!


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine today. Most significant initial impression; smooth._

 

x2 on smooth; good word! I'll add fast and tight. I'm enjoying the HD650 so much I haven't even tried the DT-880 yet. They've been a bit neglected since the senns came home anyway...

 Of course these are all preliminary reports; I won't do a thorough review until things have settled down. Went through an hour or two this afternoon when vocals were strangely recessed... made me wonder if it was me or the compass.


----------



## scootermafia

Thems are some sexy photos. If i had to do it all over again, I might've gone with a Compass. It's a good first amp/dac since it will likely never need replacement.


----------



## direcow

kingwa ships the same power cable everywhere, even to singapore where we use UK plugs. Basically be prepared to have one spare handy, or time to look for aftermarket stuff


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eric M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is everyone ordering theirs from audio-gd.com? Or is it still only for testers? The site hasn't been working for me today._

 

you can order from audio-gd, or check if someone around your area is doing a mass order (from audio-gd...) the site appears to be back up, fwiw.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrchyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What sound mode does the compass default in?_

 

it ships in bright mode, with no jumpers inserted.


----------



## Dat_Dude

I ordered one of their power cables, so I certainly hope they get the plug right.


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it ships in bright mode, with no jumpers inserted._

 

doh! I haven't opened mine up yet... expected that it would ship in neutral. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit: confirmed, mine shipped in bright mode. and whoa... the photos really don't do it justice, this thing is beautiful on the inside!


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered one of their power cables, so I certainly hope they get the plug right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Dont worry, was my mistake. Youll get your "wrist" cable =D


----------



## sandchak

Great Pictures dbs..

 I hope you guys are opening the Compass before starting to use it, there is a foam on top of the OPA which was put to protect the OPA during travel, those foams needs to be taken off..


----------



## rx7mark

Mine arrived today as well!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great first impression. This thing really looks and feels solid and professionally put together. No review from me, too much of a newby, and nothing to really compare it to. And this is part of an entirely new setup, my first reasonably HI-FI rig. 

 Old refurbed Dell laptop >> ASIO4all > Media Monkey w/Otachan >> USB >> Compass >> Denon AH-D2000.

 I have actually spent the last 3-4 weeks waiting for the compass ripping CD's with EAC into FLAC files onto a nice new 1TB external hard drive. 

 I will give some impressions after a little burn in. Actually its going to get 10 straight days worth of burn in, as I leave on Vacation Thursday morning. Bad timing after all of the waiting. 

 The tough question is to burn in the Earth OPA first, or Moon OPA first? The Earth is in already, but some are reporting great synergy between Denon's and the Moon OPA. Of course I will have all of the jumpers in for this burn in period.

 What fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mark


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...CompassDAC.jpg_

 

Anyone noticed that very thin wire(?) going from middle RCA outputs to the unshielded wire on top? Is this normal/fragile?

 Don't really care how it looks, as long as its ok.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered one of their power cables, so I certainly hope they get the plug right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

The mains cable comes with only the one type of termination (the 3 prong US type).

 Peete.

 General announcement:

 PS : Tyson's estimate of 400 hours for Audio-gd gear is what I would call the base minimum hours required for a settled unit. My findings push this hour estimate closer to 600 hours until complete settling (with the Compass only, the RE1 for instance may take at least 1000 hours but that is just an educated guess).

 More detailed observations WRT Compass burn in will be included in Part III of my review which will be posted this week sometime. Part IV evaluations will then commence. Part V requires me to send my test unit back for upgrade (to evaluate the new features and settings not covered in the first 3 parts) but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

 Congrats to all the members that have received their Compass combo's thus far. Just remember guys the Compass will go through a number of changes over the next 2 weeks (assuming you leave it on 24/7 for that time period). The faster you get to 400+ hours the faster you'll be reaching that point where the Compass gives you consistent performance. As always these observations are IMO. YMMV


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone noticed that very thin wire(?) going from middle RCA outputs to the unshielded wire on top? Is this normal/fragile?

 Don't really care how it looks, as long as its ok._

 

If you look close, it loops around to the bottom jacks also. Basically tying all the grounds together.

 .


----------



## mlarn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it ships in bright mode, with no jumpers inserted._

 

Are you sure on this? On the audio-gd webpage about half-way down it says the default is Neutral.


----------



## hdlovar

Is the final version finally ready to be ordered?

 Should I go ahead and send off an e-mail to kingwa asking about it?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone noticed that very thin wire(?) going from middle RCA outputs to the unshielded wire on top? Is this normal/fragile?

 Don't really care how it looks, as long as its ok._

 


 Dont worry, I just asked Kingwa.. he thinks its melted glue, they use glue on soldered joints so that it doesn't come off during shipment..

 See attachment..

 EDIT - Talking about stock power cables, I think people ordering Compass from here on, can choose the suitable type of cable , while placing the order - check his webpage..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hdlovar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the final version finally ready to be ordered?

 Should I go ahead and send off an e-mail to kingwa asking about it?_

 

Yes

 .


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dont worry, I just asked Kingwa.. he thinks its melted glue, they use glue on soldered joints so that it doesn't come off during shipment..

 See attachment..

 EDIT - Talking about stock power cables, I think people ordering Compass from here on, can choose the suitable type of cable , while placing the order - check his webpage.._

 

Thanks! glue is no biggie.


----------



## csroc

Glue makes sense, otherwise the only thing I could imagine is the wire is stranded and a strand came loose. I don't recall if that's stranded or not though.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It's glue alright. Just clean up any stray strands you see (if any). I had some of the same on my Compass. Easy to clean up to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great Pictures dbs..

 I hope you guys are opening the Compass before starting to use it, there is a foam on top of the OPA which was put to protect the OPA during travel, those foams needs to be taken off..




_

 

I'm sure Kingwa said that you don't need to take the foam off. Everything runs fine with it in place.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sure Kingwa said that you don't need to take the foam off. Everything runs fine with it in place._

 

Actually, I just looked at his website this morning and it said to take the foam off, like it says in the pics, but on the other hand it also says, the Compass should work fine even if you don't remove the foams..so, I guess its a choice.

 EDIT - This time I asked him and he says :

  Quote:


 I only afraid the foams will press the OPA and let the OPA a little hot than without the foams.
 But I think remove is better .


----------



## dBs

Glue or no glue, it sounds great =D Smoooooooooth. This will be a long burn in process. After breaking in the Compass+Earth, Ill give a round through of the various jumper settings. Then Ill begin breaking in the Moon because I really want to give the Moon+bright setting a try. The idea of the Moon possibly canceling the sharpness of the bright setting while maintaining its touted soundstage.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, I just looked at his website this morning and it said to take the foam off, like it says in the pics, but on the other hand it also says, the Compass should work fine even if you don't remove the foams..so, I guess its a choice.

 EDIT - This time I asked him and he says :_

 

Oh, cool, thanks for that (pun not intended). More stuff I can add to the FAQ.


----------



## csroc

I haven't removed the foam from mine and it hasn't seemed to cause any problems. The only reason I haven't removed it is in anticipation of sending it back for a final Compass... I definitely want the lower gain.


----------



## laobrasuca

first of all i'd like to congratulate you guys for your effort on creating this project and come up with such a piece of art, really.

 but, here's the question: is it really miles better than the Zero? lol yeah, i know, it is silly question, since it was build to be better than Zero. So, sorry if i bore you guys with such a question, but it's that i'm in a really tight budget, so if the difference is not noticeable i would go to the Zero one hoping i would not get a defective unit (do they ship defective units yet? or with all the negative feedbacks, they've done something to improve (component) quality?). 

 lao

 ps: i got a HD650. Actually it's a gift, so if you ask yourselves why i spent 280€ in such phone and not the equivalent in an DAC/AMP, there's the answer.


----------



## dBs

Read the first post in the thread for the multiple reviews of it, many of which compare it directly with the Zero and FrankenZero.


----------



## ScottieB

My compass is in the building! Now just need the mail room peeps to bring it on upstairs!!!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My compass is in the building! Now just need the mail room peeps to bring it on upstairs!!!_

 

Excellent! Another comparison with the Zero? (Apparently this is very important to a lot of people. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )

 I'm very curious if you'll end up prefering the Sun in the Compass as well.

 Did you order a Sun v2 with it?


----------



## ScottieB

Well my old Sun crapped out again - due to original shoddy soldering. So Kingwa said he'd replace it and include with the Compass (in addition to the Earth) so we'll see. I've been using the moon lately in my Zero and liking it... anyway I'm not the greatest at putting what I hear into words, but I will most certainly share my opinions on the Compass Vs Zero... then, it's FrankenZero time! but I'm getting way ahead of myself!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been using the moon lately in my Zero and liking it... anyway I'm not the greatest at putting what I hear into words, but I will most certainly share my opinions on the Compass Vs Zero..._

 

I'm looking forward to it!

 Funny, I've just switched from Moon to Sun in my Compass. I was getting fed up with Moon, I guess I like solid state sound too much. I don't want tubes and apparently I don't want transistors pretending they're tubes either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I'm exaggerating, of course.)


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm looking forward to it!

 Funny, I've just switched from Moon to Sun in my Compass. I was getting fed up with Moon, I guess I like solid state sound too much. I don't want tubes and apparently I don't want transistors pretending they're tubes either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I'm exaggerating, of course.)_

 

I've always had a little problem with that concept also.

 .


----------



## dBs

Im curious looking at my sun on the shelf (waiting for its turn to burn in), it has 4 LEDs on it, or at least what appear to be LEDs. The other 2 do not have LEDs. Im just guessing that these are really traditional diodes in an LED package since PCB real estate is more important in the HDAMs than height real estate is. Is my thinking correct on this or are those really light up LEDs?


----------



## ScottieB

They really light up!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im curious looking at my sun on the shelf (waiting for its turn to burn in), it has 4 LEDs on it, or at least what appear to be LEDs. The other 2 do not have LEDs. Im just guessing that these are really traditional diodes in an LED package since PCB real estate is more important in the HDAMs than height real estate is. Is my thinking correct on this or are those really light up LEDs?_

 

They certainly function like LEDs. Do you think they might have another function as well?

 All I know is that I simply love the fact that the Sun opamp actually gives light. I always thought that was a brilliant display of engineering humour.


----------



## tinseljim

"Thanks Tinsel Jim for that great burn in post (even if some members don't believe in such things it was very helpful/thoughtful to post).

 Peete."

 No problem - I hope it was helpful to those less inclined to be too geeky about audio. 





))


----------



## ScottieB

Yeah I tried to ignore the whole "tube-like" words they used for the HDAMs. It's misleading IMO. I think the Earth is accurately described as neutral - but one shouldn't think that means 'boring' - it is still lively and dynamic and much more musical than any standard opamp I've heard. The Sun (V1, have yet to hear the V2) is certainly more dynamic - to me it had more slam and punch in the bass, and some more forward mids - which I liked with my sennheisers. The moon is harder for me to describe. But "tube" doesn't really come to mind. It has a wider soundstage than either the Sun or Earth, and even has what I'd call more bass than the earth - but different than the Sun - not as punchy - but more full.

 As I said I'm not great at these descriptions, but I don't agree with describing the Moon as tube-like. But, any of the 3 is a good choice, IMO - and easily better than a standard opamp.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I said I'm not great at these descriptions, but I don't agree with describing the Moon as tube-like. But, any of the 3 is a good choice, IMO - and easily better than a standard opamp._

 

Well, I was playing on Audio-gd's description, of course, although they certainly aren't the only ones to have talked about tubes when describing the sound of the Moon.
 I would characterize the Moon as very fluidly musical, with recessed midrange (resulting in more soundstage) and slightly enhanced (but not too focussed) bass. It's a very easy, comfortable listen. Unfortunately, the combination of this signature with the vintage AKG 'phones I'm mostly using is not very complimentary. Things get toned down a little too much. More 'aggressively detailed' headphones will probably work much better with it.


----------



## ScottieB

Well, Compass is inhand - everything accounted for (although I also received the "wrong" power cable - not a problem, didn't order the upgrade) including replacement Sun and my power supply for some DIY... can't get home soon enough now!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, Compass is inhand - everything accounted for (although I also received the "wrong" power cable - not a problem, didn't order the upgrade) including replacement Sun and my power supply for some DIY... can't get home soon enough now!_

 

So you received an Australian power cable as well? What an odd mix-up.


----------



## ScottieB

Ha yeah not sure what country it is for, but same one posted in the photo earlier.


----------



## SoFGR

I'm finally ready to order one too, still hesitating though , is earth better than sun and moon for a basshead ?  I think i will go all stock in cabling since i can't be bothered finding a US 3pin to EU 2pin adapter, nor paying extra 60$ for a power cable + another 40$ for a toslink glass optical.

 Btw does anybody here play hardware openAL games like UT3 america's army or red orchestra ? i've read somewhere that when using spdif instead of analogue hardware openal support will not work, even if that's true i can still use just the headphone amp section in games via super mode right ? will i need a rca to minijack cable for that purpose ?


----------



## ScottieB

I've played UT3 very briefly with my Zero (via coax) and had no problems I can recall... this was on XP if that matters. Not my favorite game so I don't have more experience with it... I can say though that TF2 works great! ha. either way this may be more a function of the sound card - which do you use?

 For a basshead - hard to say, but depending on your headphones I might recommend either Sun or Moon. As I've said before all 3 are wonderful and not really lacking, but the others may give you more of what you're looking for...


----------



## dBs

I thought about playing UT3 seriously but no major competitions materialized for it in the US =\ (though I hear its quite popular in EU). I dont know of any difficulties regarding OpenAL or anything like that but Im sure if there is one, Google will know about it.

 Since were talking about games I will chime in on impressions for gaming with the Compass (which I will elaborate further on in my official review in a few weeks). The Compass is WAY better than the XFi for gaming. I played some CS:S last night and the directional information was immeasurably better than on my XFi. I was always kind of disappointed when it came to using my HD650s or DT770s for gaming because the directional representation just always sounded very blurred and undefined. Another problem that stemmed from this was a distinct lack of distance perception to the sound. This means it was difficult to precisely identify where the sound was coming from as well as how far away it was. I was always having to rely on my knowledge of the map and the sounds that the different areas made with respect to my position in order to pinpoint opponent location.

 The Compass completely changes my opinion of how well these headphones work in gaming. The direction was the most precise I have ever heard (and I have a lot of experience in gaming audio), the sense of distance was spot on every time. I was using my HD650s last night and I will give my DT770s a try tonight to see how they compare. The clarity of the sound was far more precise as well. I was worried about loosing out on some of the technological aspects of the XFi regarding gaming, but my worries were completely unnecessary. If I get back into competitive gaming, I will be taking my Compass with me to EVERY tournament. This says a lot since going to Quake Con or CPL (RIP) is not easy to do with all that computer equipment let alone throwing in a Compass as well XD

 Oh and another benefit I forgot about. Using XFi has been a bit of a hassle regarding the mic (Vista 64). I have gotten it to work but Ive had to crank every gain I could find to make myself audible to other people. This resulted in significant mic feedback to myself which was very annoying. Leaving the mic plugged into the XFi but listening to the game via the Compass meant that I no longer had any mic feedback at all, none. A very welcome added benefit (though admittedly useless at tournaments =P).


----------



## Hot Pixel

Hmm interesting... how do you connect the compass to your computer?
 Cause I was wondering if using the USB impacted the FPS (similar to an external USB sound card).
 I'm eyeing the compass at the moment, but I've got a *lot* to read up on.


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<snip>_

 

Thanks a lot for the gaming impressions. Much appreciated.


----------



## SoFGR

thanks for your input guys you're really helping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 @ ScottieB :

 hardware openAL was ticked in UT3 sound settings right ? would you please test these settings in TF2 ? Guru3D.com Forums - View Single Post - X-Fi CMSS-3D Headphone + snd_legacy_surround 1 in console try toggling cmss and snd_legacy_surround tell me what do you like best, i think cmss3d and snd_legacy_surround 0 make the game sound crappy and remove all the bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 @ dbs : 

 what are your CSS and x-fi settings ? i use DT770/80 PRO 
 too, no problems on sound positioning really,but when a LOT of stuff goes on in big firefights i find that it's much easier for people to sneak up on me, i really wanna know if there's a way to fix it. btw i hate using my x-fi without the pa2v2 mini-amp in games, gunshots and explosions sound dull and more importantly 3d imaging is less defined, why would they need extra juice though ? they're just 80omhs, x-fi should drive them fine


----------



## dBs

Ive only used USB to connect to my computer thus far. Its the only one I can use that doesnt end up going through the XFi or motherboard audio. The goal is to bypass those components so USB was the way to go.

 As far as my XFi configuration, I have used all 3 modes (entertainment, gaming, and creation). Mic settings in Vista is mic level at 50% and mic boost gain +20% off. I had played with these before and found that they made no difference in how well people could hear me, likely because I have the settings for software exclusive control enabled as well as exclusive mode applications priority.

 In CS:S everything is cranked up with the exception of mic receiving since some people like to be screamers in CS:S =P I still get mic feedback from my own mic though (if I dont use Compass). If I drop any of the gain elements in CS:S no one can hear me.

 As far as firefights and such, I know how this can be a problem. When I used to play BF2, artillery strikes were so loud that they drown out everything else. Because of that I try to diminish bass quite a bit when gaming. Hearing BOOM! isnt as important to me as knowing where the opponent is at all times. Theres not much that can be done about removing distracting sounds though. It is what it is really. You are exactly right though, I was using XFi to my headphones directly with no amp in between. When done that way, as you said, 3D imagine is undefined. That why I was actually pretty disappointed...until the Compass, now its the best I have ever heard.

 80Ohms is actually pretty high. Its not as high as 300, but its still quite a bit. More than that though its also a matter of the headphones sensitivity. If youre finding that 3D imaging is lacking when there is no amp between your XFi and your headphones, then you know that the impedance is making a difference.


----------



## mlarn

Got my Compass today after work, and thought Id post some initial thoughts for anyone interested. This was packed well, and everything seemed to be very stable and well protected as I opened it up. I did get the wrong power cord as many of you have mentioned (#4 on his website). This did not bother me as I have a beefier cord I was planning on using, but if I did not have the spare here already I would not be very happy about that. If you are ordering one (and especially if you are ordering the upgraded power cord) I would specify exactly what you need. He does include a great deal of other accessories I was not expecting (USB, optical and coax) so I will not hold this against him!

 The first thing I did was open up the top to take out the foam padding over the OPA, examine the jumpers to see what the set-up was, and generally look over the dac/amp. The cover came off very easily (with the supplied allen wrench). The amp is shipped in “Bright” mode (meaning no jumpers installed), which I had questioned last night as on the website it originally said it had the “Neutral” jumper settings as default. This has been updated on the website, so is correct now. I wanted to try the amp in the most neutral settings I could have first, so I set it to “Neutral” by inserting the jumpers on the board just like he shows on the website. Even for me (absolutely 100% sure I am going to break/fry my new toy) it was a snap and took about 30 seconds. After taking off the foam protector piece, I took a general look at the amp since I had the cover off to see how it all looked. I do not have any experience in this area, so take this for what its worth (not much), but everything looked very clean and very well laid out. The soldering looked very profesional, and just looking at the layout made me think Kingwa spent a great deal of time figuring out the best way to set all of this up. The best way to describe it is just well organized, neat and clean. The only thing that surprised/concerned me at all was the fit of the Earth OPA in the sockets. I pulled it out just to see how it all worked, and I was surprised that the OPA did not fit more snugly into the board. It will not fall out or anything like that (it obviously just survived a trip basically across the globe), and seems to be making contact in all of the slots, but I thought it would have a bit tighter fit. I assume this is the way all of these are and it is not a problem, so unless I hear otherwise (either on these forums or after listening) I am sure it is fine. I will say that making these so easy to replace is great for someone like me with no DIY experience so I can still experiment with the sound (both in the case of the OPA and the jumpers).

 One question: on mine there is a 4th “notch” on the selector knob. When I turn the knob from right to left it “stops” on each the 3 listed inputs, and then when I go farther to the left there is another “notch” where the knob again stops (and will not go any farther to the left after that) but no corresponding input listed. Im not really concerned, more interested to see if the rest of you have this same thing and why it is like that.

 As others have said, it is built like a tank and I like the look on the outside as well.

 So, I finally decided to give it a listen at this point…I plugged in my DVD player, plugged in new power cord, turned it on and got the blue LED so I knew it was ready, then pressed play on Grateful Dead-One from the Vault, and…nothing! Of course, nothing wrong with the Compass, after a couple of deep breaths I realized instead it was something wrong with me (surprise, surprise) and figuring out which jack was the optical out on my DVD payer. So switching that quickly and pressing play again revealed Bill Graham introducing the boys and them taking off with Help on the Way -> Slipknot -> Franklin’s Tower. The sound out of the box is good, very deep and layered to me. There is much more depth and instrument separation there than with the Echo Indigo DJ I had been using, and I think with burn-in this will only increase. Right now its like the outside edges of the notes are nice and spread out, but the inside edges are still kind of muddied together in a slight haze. In my opinion the DJ is very detailed and musical at the same time and great for its price, but there is not much weight to it and the bottom end never felt analogue/liquid to me. The Compass does not have that problem at all. It feels much more authoritative than anything Ive heard recently. The bass is definitely a little overpowering right now, but I am sure that will settle down and tighten up as it burns in. I am excited to see/listen where this goes as I give it time to settle in, and I think from this start I will be pleased. I will post more impressions as they come, but now it is time to get my USB connection, etc. installed so I can play my FLAC files as well. 
 Hope this has been helpful.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mlarn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One question: on mine there is a 4th “notch” on the selector knob. When I turn the knob from right to left it “stops” on each the 3 listed inputs, and then when I go farther to the left there is another “notch” where the knob again stops (and will not go any farther to the left after that) but no corresponding input listed. Im not really concerned, more interested to see if the rest of you have this same thing and why it is like that._

 

This was discussed a while ago so I'm not surprised you (and others) have missed it. The reason there's a 4-position switch is because that's all Kingwa could get in China of that switch type. I'm sure he could find other switches but I imagine he chose that one for its feel. Everyone's got that right now.


----------



## dBs

The HDAMs are a bit loose but, as you said, survived the trek so should be fine. Loose might not be a bad thing anyway when you go swapping.

 The extra notch on the source selection is normal and I believe is covered in the FAQ section of this thread. The reason is that there were only 4 notch selectors available to Kingwa, he was unable to locate a 3 notch selector. The blank position is not connected and so doesnt do anything.


----------



## Currawong

mlarn: Interesting impressions. It's nice to read them from someone who is getting it for the first time and what things they wonder.

 Some answers to the things you wondered about:
 The selector is 4-way with only 3 used, hence the extra notch.
 The HDAM doesn't fit tightly, as it is using pins that were designed to be soldered into a circuit board (such as on the base of the socket itself). The sockets are designed to take opamps, which are small, have wide legs and fit snugly.


----------



## senn_liu

guys, just for fun, i removed the input selector knob. now when i put it back, it doesn't "click" through the positions anymore. it just turns smoothly like a regular knob. that's because it isn't gripping onto the actual selector switch properly. how do i restore it to its original state i.e. clicking through the positions?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys, just for fun, i removed the input selector knob. now when i put it back, it doesn't "click" through the positions anymore. it just turns smoothly like a regular knob. that's because it isn't gripping onto the actual selector switch properly. how do i restore it to its original state i.e. clicking through the positions?_

 

By the looks of the knobs on the Audio Gd's web, it seems the grooves on the knob is made of plastic, maybe that got a little loose, if I was you, first I would just try to move the shaft ( without the knob/dial in place) to see if it was clicking, if that would be the case, maybe I would stuff some paper to into the groove of the knob just to tighten and have a better grip.. its unconventional and maybe even untidy but its worked for me in the past..

 Or maybe if you have a pliers, you could try and tighten the groove and see if it works.. well this is all that comes to my mind now.. and I must caution you that I am no expert in all this, so if you end up making it worse.. know that I was only trying to help !!..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Anyone notice in the pics at the website the mains filter caps have changed from RX11 to RZ05 ?

 I wonder if that makes a difference at all ? I'll have a look and see what I can dig up. It's probably nothing but now I'm curious...

 Peete.


----------



## senn_liu

the switch shaft itself works perfectly fine, so i can still toggle between the input options without the knob on. it's just that the knob doesn't grip the shaft, so it just spins on the shaft without turning it. (the knob spins but the shaft doesn't move).


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## Pricklely Peete

Is the insert spinning inside the knob body ? If so you need to glue the plastic insert inside the knob so it's all one piece again allowing the knob to turn the pot shaft.

 Check that and get back to me....if it does spin freely (meaning the adhesive has failed) use super glue to attach the insert to the knob once again.

 Let it dry for a while (5 minutes) before putting the knob back on to try it. Do not glue the insert to the shaft. 

 Report back ASAP please with your findings and I'll walk you through the repair...(it's easy).

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the looks of the knobs on the Audio Gd's web, it seems the grooves on the knob is made of plastic, maybe that got a little loose, if I was you, first I would just try to move the shaft ( without the knob/dial in place) to see if it was clicking, if that would be the case, maybe I would stuff some paper to into the groove of the knob just to tighten and have a better grip.. its unconventional and maybe even untidy but its worked for me in the past..

 Or maybe if you have a pliers, you could try and tighten the groove and see if it works.. well this is all that comes to my mind now.. and I must caution you that I am no expert in all this, so if you end up making it worse.. know that I was only trying to help !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Agreed, it looks like the knob has a plastic insert that fits it to the shaft and it probably has some sort of ridges or something on it to grip the shaft. I imagine it's not meant to be removed unfortunately. Paper would work, blue tac would work, a dab of hot melt glue would work too I imagine but I wouldn't recommend using glue to attach it to the shaft. Anything to help lock it in place. 

 And I see peete went in to more specifics so looks like it's going to be taken care of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone notice in the pics at the website the mains filter caps have changed from RX11 to RZ05 ?

 I wonder if that makes a difference at all ? I'll have a look and see what I can dig up. It's probably nothing but now I'm curious...

 Peete._

 

Interesting catch. I've seen the RX11s in other things I think but I have no idea about its specs and googling has not found much on either that is of any help so I guess you'd need to look elsewhere. I checked digikey for a giggle but neither term brought anything up.

 I'm not the best at sleuthing this sort of thing as I don't do it often so I aint much help.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting catch. I've seen the RX11s in other things I think but I have no idea about its specs and googling has not found much on either that is of any help so I guess you'd need to look elsewhere. I checked digikey for a giggle but neither term brought anything up.

 I'm not the best at sleuthing this sort of thing as I don't do it often so I aint much help._

 

As far as I know, these caps are custom made by Nover for Audio-gd. So you would need to mail Kingwa, if you want to know the specs.


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## les_garten

To the folks that have the Upgraded Compass that have done some DIY stuff, how do you rate the RCA Jacks? I'm thinking of doing a Project and might buy some from Kingwa and have them thrown in with my REF1 or Compass box. Are they worthwhile?

 .


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I know, these caps are custom made by Nover for Audio-gd. So you would need to mail Kingwa, if you want to know the specs._

 

Interesting, well that'll make it harder to search online for then won't it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm very interested to compare the final Compass against the test Compass. It will be fun to have them side by side and give them a visual comparison in and out as well as listening comparison.


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## senn_liu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the insert spinning inside the knob body ? If so you need to glue the plastic insert inside the knob so it's all one piece again allowing the knob to turn the pot shaft.

 Check that and get back to me....if it does spin freely (meaning the adhesive has failed) use super glue to attach the insert to the knob once again.

 Let it dry for a while (5 minutes) before putting the knob back on to try it. Do not glue the insert to the shaft. 

 Report back ASAP please with your findings and I'll walk you through the repair...(it's easy).

 Peete._

 

sorry, but i don't understand what you mean by the insert. as far as i can tell the knob is in one piece, no loose parts, so the problem is between the knob and the pot shaft. thanks for your attention btw.


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## Pricklely Peete

Copper billet/gold plate are always preferable over the usual brass/gold plate types. How that translates to sound quality is the big question mark at the moment but I would recommend the copper billet types for any serious high end gear as a whole pile of small upgrades usually add up to make a difference to the overall end product.

 I use Edison Price Music posts for all my speakers over the regular posts (brass gold plated types) and for me the solid Copper types do give a boost in overall SQ.

 In other words Les...I'd definitely opt for the better jacks every time. I also want to emphasize that I do not endorse jacks like WBT etc...because the cost does not match the performance increase. The sweet spot IMO is the copper billet/gold plates types Kingwa and other parts suppliers sell for 30US and under a pair.

 As far as the RZ05 caps are concerned...the Nover site has no such line so csroc's advice to ask Kingwa about them is the best choice for any info.

 I'll email him about those caps and relay that info here when I get it.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry, but i don't understand what you mean by the insert. as far as i can tell the knob is in one piece, no loose parts, so the problem is between the knob and the pot shaft. thanks for your attention btw._

 

The center assembly of the knob itself is a plastic insert that is glued to the knob. Does this section spin freely or is it firmly attached to the knob ?

 If it is the latter then try using plumber's thread tape to build up the shaft diameter a little so the knob insert grabs the pot shaft firmly and allows it to function properly again.

 The tape I'm talking about is kinda pinkish in color and is very thin (Teflon thread tape sometimes called pipe dope ). Don't use electrical tape as it just ends up bunching when you try and slide the knob back on.

 Aluminum knobs always have a glued in plastic insert (for the most part) to keep machining costs low. Check that insert please and let me know what you find out.

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone notice in the pics at the website the mains filter caps have changed from RX11 to RZ05 ?

 I wonder if that makes a difference at all ? I'll have a look and see what I can dig up. It's probably nothing but now I'm curious...

 Peete._

 

I had noticed that a couple of days ago, and asked Kingwa the difference.. this is what he said :

  Quote:


 They are same.
 These caps all are our customer order, not our order they can't change the QC.
 The No. I think is the batchs sign. 
 

meaning : they are the same, all these caps are custom ordered and unless specified they (NOVER) cant change the quality. and the difference in numbers may just be a sign of different batch..

 I did not dig further, but maybe Peete who is more knowledgeable can do that ..


----------



## senn_liu

the insert is firmly attached to the knob. so looks like i'll have to find a way to make the fit between the knob and the shaft tighter. tried regular clear tape, but it didn't work well. may have to find that tape which you mentioned. thanks a lot. any further suggestions are welcome.


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## Pricklely Peete

Sandchak the RZ and RX designations denote differences in performance...have a look at the Nover site here.....as for the numbers themselves I have no idea what they mean.

News from Nover, manufacturer of Electrolytic and Tantalum Capacitors

 I'm just wondering if the RZ series is better than the RX series in terms of ripple/ lower ESR etc over the RX type ?

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as the RZ05 caps are concerned...the Nover site has no such line so csroc's advice to ask Kingwa about them is the best choice for any info._

 

It was actually Drosera's advice but I certainly agree with it too.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sandchak the RZ and RX designations denote differences in performance...have a look at the Nover site here.....as for the numbers themselves I have no idea what they mean.

News from Nover, manufacturer of Electrolytic and Tantalum Capacitors

 I'm just wondering if the RZ series is better than the RX series in terms of ripple/ lower ESR etc over the RX type ?

 Peete._

 

Thats what I meant when I said you would be in better position as I am a novice when it comes to technical stuffs.. maybe you should ask Kingwa, and if you have already, I am sure his reply to you would be more technical.. 
 But do let us know what the difference might be..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the insert is firmly attached to the knob. so looks like i'll have to find a way to make the fit between the knob and the shaft tighter. tried regular clear tape, but it didn't work well. may have to find that tape which you mentioned. thanks a lot. any further suggestions are welcome._

 

Email Kingwa and see what he has to say about it......another idea is the non permanent loc- tite (SP ?) compound (blue color) that will "lock" the knob in place to the shaft. That's somewhat of a messy solution though and would be a method of last resort. The blue version of the stuff gives you a semi-permanent bond meaning if you have to take the knob off at a later date the glue will break it's bond (with some effort) allowing the knob to slide off undamaged.

 I'd try the Teflon tape first (after Kingwa's suggestions).

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Email Kingwa and see what he has to say about it......another idea is the non permanent loc- tite (SP ?) compound (blue color) that will "lock" the knob in place to the shaft. That's somewhat of a messy solution though and would be a method of last resort. The blue version of the stuff gives you a semi-permanent bond meaning if you have to take the knob off at a later date the glue will break it's bond (with some effort) allowing the knob to slide off undamaged.

 I'd try the Teflon tape first (after Kingwa's suggestions).

 Peete._

 

On Kingwa's site, that knob doesn't appear to be toothed. Looks like it was a friction fit with a split shaft maybe.

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sandchak the RZ and RX designations denote differences in performance...have a look at the Nover site here.....as for the numbers themselves I have no idea what they mean.

News from Nover, manufacturer of Electrolytic and Tantalum Capacitors

 I'm just wondering if the RZ series is better than the RX series in terms of ripple/ lower ESR etc over the RX type ?

 Peete._

 

Well, I guess I have some more info on the CAPs, so might as well share..

 Kingwa says :
  Quote:


 The RX05 or RZ05 is the date code, it show the manufacture time.
 The LA is the series code, it show the different performance. 
 







 EDIT - I just opened my Compass to see the CAPS, and its RX11 "LA" Series..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Whoops Sandchak beat me to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks Kingwa and Sandchak 

 Some LA series info on this page but the link to the pdf datasheet is broken.....need to look some more...
Large Can Electrolytics form a strategic part of Nover's comprehensive capacitor portfolio

 Peete.


----------



## senn_liu

i tried the teflon plumber's tape, and it works quite well. the knob still slides a tiny bit, but i can use it to click between the input options like it is supposed to.

 using something like super glue or the bonding material peete mentioned would probably restore the knob to its exact original functioning state, but that might make it tricky to remove the knob if necessary.

 as far as i am concerned the problem solved, at least until i have to put on more of that magical tape 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what i'm curious about is how the knob worked originally. there are no grooves, and the fit between the knob and the pot shaft isn't very snug.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what i'm curious about is how the knob worked originally. there are no grooves, and the fit between the knob and the pot shaft isn't very snug._

 

It still sounds like there was originally a sort of small wedge that kept the knob in place and that might have become lost when you pried the knob loose. Of course, to find out whether that's the case we need more of these destructively curious Compass owners. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I'm not recommending this.)


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It still sounds like there was originally a sort of small wedge that kept the knob in place and that might have become lost when you pried the knob loose. Of course, to find out whether that's the case we need more of these destructively curious Compass owners. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I'm not recommending this.)_

 

Mine arrived with the knob loose, but I didn't notice it at first... so it's not limited to the destructively curious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The teflon tape has helped, but I don't think it's a permanent fix. The tape will wear out fairly quickly, since the knob is still turning slightly on the post; I blame the teflon for that.

 I'm thinking that hot glue is probably the next thing to try, since it's cheap, available, and non-permanent. I'll email Kingwa and see what he has to say.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine arrived with the knob loose, but I didn't notice it at first... so it's not limited to the destructively curious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The teflon tape has helped, but I don't think it's a permanent fix. The tape will wear out fairly quickly, since the knob is still turning slightly on the post; I blame the teflon for that.

 I'm thinking that hot glue is probably the next thing to try, since it's cheap, available, and non-permanent. I'll email Kingwa and see what he has to say._

 

Ah, then it's becoming a problem that should be dealt with. Good that you informed Kingwa.
 Obviously, this problem did not occur with the test versions. I even tried if the knobs would come off with my Compass. But no. Or at least, it would take a more 'violent' approach than I would be willing to go for.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine arrived with the knob loose, but I didn't notice it at first... so it's not limited to the destructively curious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The teflon tape has helped, but I don't think it's a permanent fix. The tape will wear out fairly quickly, since the knob is still turning slightly on the post; I blame the teflon for that.

 I'm thinking that hot glue is probably the next thing to try, since it's cheap, available, and non-permanent. I'll email Kingwa and see what he has to say._

 

You know, I just checked my Compass too, and I agree if you want to turn it further than its supposed to, then it does turn, but I wouldn't exactly call it loose, so yes, you and I did not realize it till we became curious !!.. so I actually I agree with Drosera that depending on the level of curiosity, it can be destructive !!..

 Anyway, your Compass is from the new batch, so checking up with Kingwa, would be the best..


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know, I just checked my Compass too, and I agree if you want to turn it further than its supposed to, then it does turn, but I wouldn't exactly call it loose, so yes, you and I did not realize it till we became curious !!.. so I actually I agree with Drosera that depending on the level of curiosity, it can be destructive !!..

 Anyway, your Compass is from the new batch, so checking up with Kingwa, would be the best.._

 

I agree on the potential for curiousity to be destructive, but it's not the case for me this time. I had noticed some slop in the dial the first--and only--time I adjusted it, but was occupied with trying to get the thing set up without taking too much time "off the clock" at work... In my excitement I forgot all about it until I saw senn_liu's posts.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree on the potential for curiousity to be destructive, but it's not the case for me this time. I had noticed some slop in the dial the first--and only--time I adjusted it, but was occupied with trying to get the thing set up without taking too much time "off the clock" at work... In my excitement I forgot all about it until I saw senn_liu's posts._

 

I wasn't talking particularly about you, sorry if I came across that way, I was just agreeing to the term that curiosity can sometimes lead to destructiveness.. in fact I just tried to pull the selector knob and I must say I again share Drosera's view that if I am using the force, just enough to check if its loose.. then its not loose.. but like I said, this may be a problem with the 30 lot, so its better to write to Kingwa and ask him of a proper and more permanent solution..


----------



## les_garten

Glue Gun might work. Low Temp Glue. Or possibly rubber cement. You want an adhesive that will be able to be softened up with a hair dryer for easy removal later.

 .


----------



## senn_liu

here's a summary of my experience regarding the knobs...

 i removed the input selection knob and volume knob just out of curiosity, then tried putting them back on, with these results:

 1) the volume knob was a tiny bit loose.
 2) the input selection knob was totally loose. tried using teflon tape to make the fit between the pot shaft and the knob more snug. it worked, but the knob was still a little loose, and slipped on the shaft a little.

 i ended up using this glue for both knobs:





 glued 'em both, problem solved. both knobs worked like new. no idea if i will regret using glue somewhere down the road, but gonna leave that question for another year while i enjoy my compass.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_here's a summary of my experience regarding the knobs...

 i removed the input selection knob and volume knob just out of curiosity, then tried putting them back on, with these results:

 1) the volume knob was a tiny bit loose.
 2) the input selection knob was totally loose. tried using teflon tape to make the fit between the pot shaft and the knob more snug. it worked, but the knob was still a little loose, and slipped on the shaft a little.

 i ended up using this glue for both knobs:





 glued 'em both, problem solved. both knobs worked like new. no idea if i will regret using glue somewhere down the road, but gonna leave that question for another year while i enjoy my compass._

 

Most likely, worst case scenario:

 You have to get the knob so hot to get the glue soft that you ruin the Vol Pot. Unlikely, but that would be the worst I would think.

 .


----------



## csroc

Come to think of it I did find that the knobs can be twisted on the shaft, but I wouldn't describe either of mine as being loose and you can twist them back in to place easily with it still feeling secure. "Permanently" attaching it with glue would likely never be an issue unless the switch fails or you need to take the front panel off. 

 The lower strength Loc-Tite or low temp hot melt glue would do it I imagine. I suggested blue-tac earlier but I'm not really sure if that would secure it well enough. Whoever suggested rubber cement though, that's not a bad idea.

 idunno please let us know what Kingwa says. I don't know if he has used these knobs before or not but he does appear to be using them on the newer C2C. Perhaps this is something he would want to address if it's a frequent problem.


----------



## K3cT

Reporting back with my Compass. I have about 80 hours of burn-in now and the Compass literally starts to bare its fangs: the sound has become more forward! Treble has become sparkly and the mids, lower mids and bass have become more prominent. The sound definitely has shifted slightly from 'transparent, neutral' to 'transparent, forward'. 

 This is still with OPA Moon and at Neutral setting. At this rate, I might have to settle with Soft 1 setting.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Come to think of it I did find that the knobs can be twisted on the shaft, but I wouldn't describe either of mine as being loose and you can twist them back in to place easily with it still feeling secure. "Permanently" attaching it with glue would likely never be an issue unless the switch fails or you need to take the front panel off. 

 The lower strength Loc-Tite or low temp hot melt glue would do it I imagine. I suggested blue-tac earlier but I'm not really sure if that would secure it well enough. Whoever suggested rubber cement though, that's not a bad idea.

 idunno please let us know what Kingwa says. I don't know if he has used these knobs before or not but he does appear to be using them on the newer C2C. Perhaps this is something he would want to address if it's a frequent problem._

 

If it has a split Vol shaft, my first line of attack would be to spread the split a little with a screwdriver. Does anyone know if it has a split shaft? I would think it would like this one:






 If that doesn't work, then something slightly tacky like I mentioned above, Rubber cement. Mine won't be here for another 2-3 weeks so I have nothing to look at, but will surely have to address the situation. 

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Come to think of it I did find that the knobs can be twisted on the shaft, but I wouldn't describe either of mine as being loose and you can twist them back in to place easily with it still feeling secure. "Permanently" attaching it with glue would likely never be an issue unless the switch fails or you need to take the front panel off. 

 The lower strength Loc-Tite or low temp hot melt glue would do it I imagine. I suggested blue-tac earlier but I'm not really sure if that would secure it well enough. Whoever suggested rubber cement though, that's not a bad idea.

 idunno please let us know what Kingwa says. I don't know if he has used these knobs before or not but he does appear to be using them on the newer C2C. Perhaps this is something he would want to address if it's a frequent problem._

 

As far as my communications with Kingwa goes on this issue, he says in the test version (18) he had used glue on the knobs, but with the 30 he found it tight enough so he didn't use glue, but since it has been proved wrong, he would be using glue again on the Final version plus the rest that follows.. So using glue is not a problem..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as my communications with Kingwa goes on this issue, he says in the test version (18) he had used glue on the knobs, but with the 30 he found it tight enough so he didn't use glue, but since it has been proved wrong, he would be using glue again on the Final version plus the rest that follows.. So using glue is not a problem.._

 

Good information to know, thanx!

 .


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as my communications with Kingwa goes on this issue, he says in the test version (18) he had used glue on the knobs, but with the 30 he found it tight enough so he didn't use glue, but since it has been proved wrong, he would be using glue again on the Final version plus the rest that follows.. So using glue is not a problem.._

 

Sounds good! I should think that if you have a good grip (rubber bands or something similar) and you use the right glue you could get the knob off later if you needed but otherwise it would be very secure.


----------



## Dat_Dude

I have a question for the group that recently received the Compass and have been testing it out a while. Are you running it through a separate Amp? If not, do you feel it would be worth it to worry about getting a separate amp at this time? My cans are the DT880/250 ohm version.


----------



## idunno

Kingwa had asked me for some photos to clarify the knob issue, but it sounds like sandchak has clarified things. I'll still send the photos, but can't until I get home around 11 tonight.

 Les: I can't remember for sure, but don't think it was a split shaft.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa had asked me for some photos to clarify the knob issue, but it sounds like sandchak has clarified things. I'll still send the photos, but can't until I get home around 11 tonight.

 Les: I can't remember for sure, but don't think it was a split shaft._

 

If it's not Split and not toothed, I can see that as a challenge!

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it's not Split and not toothed, I can see that as a challenge!_

 

Indeed, just a quick Google Image Search tells me that quite often an Alps volume pot is neither (although some are toothed).

 Now here's a solution for ya: you could try to weld it.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it's not Split and not toothed, I can see that as a challenge!

 ._

 

Well if its the same as the first batch (18), then heres the picture, and I don't see any grooves neither slit on the selector shaft..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed, just a quick Google Image Search tells me that quite often an Alps volume pot is neither (although some are toothed).

 Now here's a solution for ya: you could try to weld it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

JB Weld will solve it for sure. Your knob will not slip...

 Your search engine must work different than mine.

Alps Blue Velvet


 I looked over the first two pages and every single one is split.


 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well if its the same as the first batch (18), then heres the picture, and I don't see any grooves neither slit on the selector shaft..





_

 

That answers that question on the slippage issue. Slippage was going to be 100% on these I would imagine without a Grub screw or glue. Nothing more irritating than a slipping knob. 

 I also just noticed from your pic that it is not the Vol Pot but the selector switch. The Vol Pot is split and toothed. Lock tite would work but be careful about the color. I'll call them and see what they recommend.

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That answers that question on the slippage issue. Slippage was going to be 100% on these I would imagine without a Grub screw or glue. Nothing more irritating than a slipping knob. 

 I also just noticed from your pic that it is not the Vol Pot but the selector switch. The Vol Pot is split and toothed. Lock tite would work but be careful about the color. I'll call them and see what they recommend.

 ._

 

If you ask me honestly, and if its a case where these shafts were also used in the 30 batch ( which I am quite sure) and not glued, many are going to find it loose and may have to glue it themselves. Hopefully, actually I am sure Kingwa will take care of this issue in his next batch.


----------



## les_garten

Ok, Here's what I got from Loctite's Industrial Tech support division. They suggested Loctite 425. I described the two substrates and the application and that was what they suggested. It you think you want a more permanent semi permanent thing, then Loctite 421. Both of which can be removed with some heat from a Hair Dryer.

Loctite 425


 .


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question for the group that recently received the Compass and have been testing it out a while. Are you running it through a separate Amp? If not, do you feel it would be worth it to worry about getting a separate amp at this time? My cans are the DT880/250 ohm version._

 

I am using both the DAC and Amp of my Compass as, other than the Mini3, its the only amp I have.

 Im at about 44 Hours of Burn in at this point. I leave it on pink noise if Im not listening to something myself, so its on 24/7 since when I hooked it up on Monday around 4pm.

 Ive been burning it in with Earth and all jumpers inserted (Soft 2). So far Ive noticed that soundstage has improved a bit and the very heavy bass emphasis (likely due to Soft 2), has tamed a bit. I have yet to listen to it today since the 8 hour burn over night so it might have changed since then. The "smoothness" of it has not changed and I dont expect that to improve as I attribute that to the lesser interference from not being inside my computer case (where my former source was located).


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your search engine must work different than mine._

 

Apparently... 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you ask me honestly, and if its a case where these shafts were also used in the 30 batch ( which I am quite sure) and not glued, many are going to find it loose and may have to glue it themselves. Hopefully, actually I am sure Kingwa will take care of this issue in his next batch._

 

Ah, I wonder how long mine will stay secure. It seems well glued now.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question for the group that recently received the Compass and have been testing it out a while. Are you running it through a separate Amp? If not, do you feel it would be worth it to worry about getting a separate amp at this time? My cans are the DT880/250 ohm version._

 

Personally, if you wanted to go a grade up in SQ, I'd go the separate DAC and amp route, and buy one of Audio-gd's DACs and the C2C, along with some good cables. However, you're looking at $1k-ish to do it well. Worth saving for maybe.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Personally, if you wanted to go a grade up in SQ, I'd go the separate DAC and amp route, and buy one of Audio-gd's DACs and the C2C, along with some good cables. However, you're looking at $1k-ish to do it well. Worth saving for maybe._

 

Or here's a Plan. Get the Compass now. Grow into a GOOD AMP Later and use the Compass as a decent DAC. Then get the Great DAC Later. By his time the Compass has adjusted in price and you get close to, if not all of your money back, and use the Compass for Free!

 .


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, potentially things like extreme metal would benefit enormously from better equipment. It's all about fast transients and resolving very dense music. All of these are real challenges to audio equipment. The problem is, of course, that most metal (and certainly the extremer subgenres) through the years has received quite mediocre recording and production values (the exceptions are extremely rare). Still, there are headphones that would work well for the genre, perhaps even the HD650 would. Personally I would recommend an AKG K240 (particularly an older Sextett or DF), others might recommend the Beyerdynamic DT-770 (I wouldn't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).

 Honestly, I think a lot of the time most of us are just guessing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But in the case of the Compass I kept it playing and driving headphones 24/7, so the burn-in time was simply the same as the number of hours in the day.

 If any of those older cd players has an optical or coaxial digital output on the back (definitely rare, unfortunately, in budget 80's cd players) you could use that to connect it to the DAC of the Compass and get a big improvement over the original sound of the player.

 As to how to set it up, well that might take too far to discuss all of that in this thread. Basically, if you want the Compass to be the 'central hub' of your sound system, you might have a problem in connecting more than one analog source output to your Compass as it only allows for one. There's a way around this by using something like an RCA splitter, I believe there are some that wouldn't degrade sound quality too much.

 I guess what you need to tell us, is if you want to use the Compass for switching between outputs (where the Compass would be functioning as a preamp) or if you still want the receiver to work as your preamp (which, I gather from your post, it can). Actually, you should probably try both options and see what works best (i.e. gives you the best sound quality). 

 (Different Post):Actually signal-amplification is not the most important reason for a phono stage, the necessary RIAA equalization is. Vinyl records have (deliberately) boosted high frequencies and attenuated low frequencies, these need to be corrected for the output to be as intended (this process acts as a kind of noise reduction).

 Anyways, since you mentioned you have a good vinyl setup, you probably know all about this already and also know whether it has a phono stage incorporated._

 

Sorry to interrupt everyone's conversation here. Thanks for the heads up on the knob deal. Looks like my Compass got hung up and didn't ship until this last Monday. Oh well, it will eventually get here.

 Drosera, Thanks a million for your replies. Before I explain some stuff and keep posting I have to tell everyone that my "multi" post reply thingy isn't working. So this is why I will probably end up having separate posts to explain things and thank people. Not sure why it's not working properly, but I tried everything I could think of. Hopefully my posts won't be too distracting. I think it's my POS laptop, but if anyone has any suggestions please feel free to suggest something. Thanks.

 Anyway, currently I do not have a separate phono preamp. I believe I need one eventually though after doing some research, but my receiver does have a phono input that I'm just using for now. I didn't realize it was something that important honestly. I didn't know much of anything when I purchased some of my gear which was about 6-8 years ago. I still have a lot to learn about what I already own to tell you the truth. I would love to explain it more, but don't want to derail this thread.

 I just wanted to thank you for your advice. I think I will play around with things after I end up getting my Compass since there are so many ways to go about hooking it up.

 Also, everyone else that has responded to my posts, I want to thank you all as well. After reading everyone's advice I been spending days researching things. So yes, everyone has helped out tremendously and I appreciate it very much. Thanks EVERYONE! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 PS. Boy I hope this makes sense.


----------



## csroc

Clicking multi and then hitting quote on the last one isn't working? Well you can do what I sometimes do which is open each quote in separate tabs and copy what you want from one tab to another until you've got the posts you want to reply to in a single response box.

 Multi-quite is easier though.


----------



## Currawong

I learned about hi-fi playing with my father's systems, much to his displeasure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To use multi-quote: Click on the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 button the posts you wish to reply to, then click on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 at the bottom of the page. Took me a while to figure that one out too.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I learned about hi-fi playing with my father's systems, much to his displeasure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To use multi-quote: Click on the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 button the posts you wish to reply to, then click on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 at the bottom of the page. Took me a while to figure that one out too._

 

Luckily my Dad never caught me. He brought back a bunch of the Coolest stuff I had ever seen from Viet Nam!

 Never thought he was Cool at all, but in retrospect, that was pretty sharp for 1969-1970. Still Have the Sansui Receiver. Just tossed the Akai deck, since it looked like it was going to be more trouble than it was worth.

 .


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or here's a Plan. Get the Compass now. Grow into a GOOD AMP Later and use the Compass as a decent DAC. Then get the Great DAC Later. By his time the Compass has adjusted in price and you get close to, if not all of your money back, and use the Compass for Free!

 ._

 

Les (or anyone else), in your opinion, would it even be worth it to purchase the Gilmore Lite from HeadAmp to hook into the Compass, or will that not improve my SQ all that much at this point?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Les (or anyone else), in your opinion, would it even be worth it to purchase the Gilmore Lite from HeadAmp to hook into the Compass, or will that not improve my SQ all that much at this point?_

 

Hi,
 Still waiting for my Compass. Peete, or Curra who have quite a few amps and can give you a definitive answer on this. But I'm thinking, no is my guess. 

 .


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This should be easy: Hook the CD into one of the digital inputs, such as coax or optical. Hook your computer in via USB. Hook your turntable in to the "Line In". When you want to switch from computer to CD, use the middle knob. When you want to use your turntable, press the "S" button and the head-amp will be disconnected from the DAC part and take sound from the line-in, which you've connected your turntable to instead. 

 One other thing: You'll need a phono stage between your turntable and the Compass unless it has one built-in, because turntables output very low signals. If you're not sure, hook it up, and if you barely hear anything with the volume up high, then you need a phono stage.

 Am I making sense?_

 

Thank you Currawong for your reply. I currently don't have a phono stage, but after some research I think I may need one for a number of reasons. Just not sure what to get with the set up I have. Anyway, thanks again for all your input, it definitely helps me understand on different ways I can approach my Compass setup. And trust me, I could use all the help I can get sometimes.


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Serpentd said:
 "By the way, how does everyone keep track of the amount of time they have on their equipment? Is there a special Hobbs meter that I'm not aware of. I just don't see how people keep track of this when they have so many different pieces they are tracking."

 (snip)

 James_

 

Thanks for this information tinseljim. All I can say is what?? Oh and also "Holy Cow" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Honestly though, thanks for this info. This will be on my "to do" list hopefully this week. Thanks buddy.


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi fellow DT Metal Man !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 650's do great with any genre IMO. 

 If your receiver has a phono stage (I'm willing to bet it does) then look for a Tape out section on the rear of the receiver (record out or tape out) and use that to send a line level output to the Compass analog input (requires the super "bypass" to be engaged).

 The Tape section of your receiver should have a monitor function (or not) that will monitor whatever input is being currently used so you can record it on tape. In any event this acts (record out, tape out) as another line level output meaning it's perfect for sending a correct level signal to the Compass. It will be unaffected by the receivers preamp section . If the unit does not have a tape monitor switch take the record out/tape out feed and try it anyway. It should work.

 This way you'll be able to take advantage of all the features of the receiver and slip a CDP into your head fi stage (via the Compass DAC). The receiver acts more like a integrated source switcher in this example.

 This also allows you to use your receiver's built in RIAA phono stage. Could you tell me what unit and model number you are using and I'll be able to give you specific directions of how to use it best with the Compass ?

 I hope that makes sense. I'm so used to Vinyl and what it requires that I completely forget that there is an entire generation now that have never used LPs and it's associated required equipment.....I guess that comes as a bit of shock to me that I'm definitely getting older 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 


 Peete, dude you are too awesome bro. You know Dream Theater is working on their 10th studio album and should be released this summer I think. I'm stoked to hear their new material.

 Your "tape out" explanation made perfect sense, and yes is does have the tape function you speak of (I think). I've never used the tape out, but I'm sure that will work. Your also correct about my receiver having an integrated phono stage. Do you have a crystal ball or something to assume all this or what? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As far as the receiver I own, its called the "Ultimate Receiver" by Sunfire and was designed by Bob Carver. My turntable is an older style VPI. I think it's one of the HW-19 series. I know I said "Aries Scout" earlier, but I was wrong. My main concern now is after doing some research on my cartridge (Grado Statement Master Wood Body Phono Cartridge) is that it's one of the low output ones at 0.5mV. It seems as though I might benefit from having a separate phono stage for hook up with the Compass. Not sure really, as I mentioned earlier this was sort of an "Impulse" purchase without much research done, the turntable, arm and cartridge that is.

 As far as being part of the generation of not owning LP's, well that wouldn't be me at all. I'm almost 41 and have a decent album collection of about 3000+ LP's. However, the proper equipment is something I lack knowledge in. At least when it comes to "Hifi" stuff. I've learned a lot over the last few days of research in this category. However the last thing I want to do is derail this thread with "Phono" knowledge, but if you could squeak in a recommendation I would appreciate it. But if it risks upsetting folks or getting too far off track, then don't trip. Now you know why I once mentioned that I would love to have you as a neighbor. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you need more info, let me know Peete. Thanks again for all your help buddy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I want to apologize to everyone again for all the posts in a row. Like I said, my darn multi post function isn't working. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for everyone's understanding.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ My main concern now is after doing some research on my cartridge (Grado Statement Master Wood Body Phono Cartridge) is that it's one of the low output ones at 0.5mV. It seems as though I might benefit from having a separate phono stage for hook up with the Compass. Not sure really, as I mentioned earlier this was sort of an "Impulse" purchase without much research done, the turntable, arm and cartridge that is._

 

Quite the pricey cartridge. 

 Anyway, are you talking about connecting your turntable directly to the Compass? If so the results will be less than desirable, you want to have the RIAA equalization to restore correct tonal balance among other things. A phono preamp is a must then in my opinion.

 Since you sound like you're connecting through your receiver you'll want to make sure the phono input on your receiver (if it has one) actually employs RIAA equalization. Although Peete is willing to bet that it does I would not be surprised at all if it doesn't as many receivers do not carry that any more but I didn't catch what receiver you have so I couldn't say. If your receiver does have one it may have an in-built phono preamp which is just fine. If not (or if you want to upgrade phono preamps) there are plenty of options. If it doesn't have one then in my opinion you need one.

 I do something similar to what you two talked about using the tape monitor connection. My NAD integrated doesn't have spare preamp outputs but I can and do use the tape monitor output to listen to my CD player or record player on my Starving Student headphone amp. My connection is similar to what you'd need if you don't have a phono preamp in your receiver. My turntable is connected to my phono preamp which is in turn connected to the input on my amplifier.


----------



## NotoriousBIG_PJ

My compass arrived yesterday. I'm testing out the moon opamp right now.

 Biggie.


----------



## dBs

59 Hours of burn in so far and the bass has DEFINITELY toned down. It is sounding more neutral and balanced in weight (despite being Soft 2). Only a little bit of bass emphasis still lingering, right where I would like it to be honestly. Now the goal is to replicate the sound at this point in time I would say, as far as the bass is concerned.

 I tested the gain settings. Up until today, I had only used the lower gain setting on both of my phones. I switched to high today, no sound difference as far as I can tell, only volume. Think I want to keep it on the low gain setting then as it will allow me greater adjust ability within my preferred listening volumes.

 I have to question the legitimacy of what Im about to say but it honestly seems like the Compass isnt running as hot anymore. The first two days I could see why some were concerned about the sort of heat the Compass put out, but now it doesnt seem as hot as it was. It may be possible that the heat sink compound is balancing itself out just like you can overclock a processor a tiny bit higher a couple days after first getting it, but I doubt that. Only commenting on what Ive noticed, cant claim legitimacy to the findings though, lol.


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Clicking multi and then hitting quote on the last one isn't working? Well you can do what I sometimes do which is open each quote in separate tabs and copy what you want from one tab to another until you've got the posts you want to reply to in a single response box.

 Multi-quite is easier though.

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 From Currawong: To use multi-quote: Click on the button the posts you wish to reply to, then click on at the bottom of the page. Took me a while to figure that one out too._

 

That is correct csroc, whether I hit say "multi" on just two different posts and then try and either hit quote or reply on the bottom of the page makes no difference really other then hitting quote will at least let me quote the post it is on. When I hit reply on the bottom of the page I get nothing at all.

 Thanks Currawong, but that doesn't work either as I explained above here. It's weird because it use to work, plus it works on a few other forums I belong to also. Not saying that it's related or anything, just odd.

 I've got a few things I'm going to try with a reboot an stuff, I think (hope) it's just hung up or something. Just makes it difficult to post sometimes to where it's easier for others to understand what the heck I'm saying without reading 5 of my posts all in a row. Not that that should happen often, but still it's just sloppy. 

 Thanks for your guys input though, I appreciate it.


----------



## Drosera

Now look at this, wonderful:


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_59 Hours of burn in so far and the bass has DEFINITELY toned down. It is sounding more neutral and balanced in weight (despite being Soft 2). Only a little bit of bass emphasis still lingering, right where I would like it to be honestly. Now the goal is to replicate the sound at this point in time I would say, as far as the bass is concerned.

 I tested the gain settings. Up until today, I had only used the lower gain setting on both of my phones. I switched to high today, no sound difference as far as I can tell, only volume. Think I want to keep it on the low gain setting then as it will allow me greater adjust ability within my preferred listening volumes.

 I have to question the legitimacy of what Im about to say but it honestly seems like the Compass isnt running as hot anymore. The first two days I could see why some were concerned about the sort of heat the Compass put out, but now it doesnt seem as hot as it was. It may be possible that the heat sink compound is balancing itself out just like you can overclock a processor a tiny bit higher a couple days after first getting it, but I doubt that. Only commenting on what Ive noticed, cant claim legitimacy to the findings though, lol._

 

Hey,
 What do you think about the idea that if there is Burn in of all the components that this could effect thermal load, and that as things "Burn in" there is less heat produced?

 .


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey,
 What do you think about the idea that if there is Burn in of all the components that this could effect thermal load, and that as things "Burn in" there is less heat produced?

 ._

 

I honestly wouldnt think very likely. The main reason being that heat produced is a factor of two players: electricity and resistance. The electricity shouldnt fluctuate much pre or post burn in. Resistance is more likely to fluctuate but even that is extremely minimally. Also resistance has a factor of heat involved in its levels. Temperature goes up, electrons vibrate faster and allow the continuation of electrons easier, so less heat. Eventually things balance out, though thats at very high temperatures-based upon material. Its probably just me thinking its cooler now than then is all. I dont think its much more than that achems razor.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now look at this, wonderful:_

 

Oh that did come out nicely! 

 I had been wondering about that!

 It's funny actually, I hadn't intended for the box indicating OPA padding to be printed, but I forgot to mention it. Hope it lines up just right and gives the assemblers an easier task of just sticking the tape over that box, otherwise it will be funny to have it misaligned with the padding! I had really just put it there for Kingwa's and my reference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now that it's there though I like it, if you take the tape off but ever need to reapply it for shipping and no residue is left behind by the original tape you don't have to worry about lining it up.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I honestly wouldnt think very likely. The main reason being that head produced is a factor of two players: electricity and resistance. The electricity shouldnt fluctuate much pre or post burn in. Resistance is more likely to fluctuate but even that is extremely minimally. Also resistance has a factor of heat involved in its levels. Temperature goes up, electrons vibrate faster and allow the continuation of electrons easier, so less heat. Eventually things balance out, though thats at very high temperatures-based upon material. Its probably just me thinking its cooler now than then is all. I dont think its much more than that achems razor._

 

Hi,
 I was thinking if the efficiency of the caps improves a lot that it may effect it. Not too many times you get to pose this stuff to an EE!

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh that did come out nicely! 

 I had been wondering about that!

 It's funny actually, I hadn't intended for the box indicating OPA padding to be printed, but I forgot to mention it. Hope it lines up just right and gives the assemblers an easier task of just sticking the tape over that box, otherwise it will be funny to have it misaligned with the padding! I had really just put it there for Kingwa's and my reference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now that it's there though I like it, if you take the tape off but ever need to reapply it for shipping and no residue is left behind by the original tape you don't have to worry about lining it up._

 

That came out really sharp.. I saw it earlier today. I don't always hit the site, so thought it had been up a while.

 .


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 I was thinking if the efficiency of the caps improves a lot that it may effect it. Not too many times you get to pose this stuff to an EE!

 ._

 

Its not usually capacitors that put of heat really. Theres resistance to them but more than anything else they simply store potential and dont allow voltage to rapidly change. Think of a capacitor as a bucket of water with a hose to it and a hole in its bottom. They have temperature thresholds printed on them in case their environment becomes too hot so they dont explode =X

 BJTs and FETs are where the majority of your heat comes from. Oh and toroids, they put off a lot of heat as well but thats mostly the resistance in all those windings.

 As far as the EE...thats really more a technicality at this point XD I passed the FE exam (HUZZAH!) but still have 58 days left until I graduate. And apparently no ones willing to hire me either right now so that doesnt exactly help, lol.


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quite the pricey cartridge. 

 Anyway, are you talking about connecting your turntable directly to the Compass? If so the results will be less than desirable, you want to have the RIAA equalization to restore correct tonal balance among other things. A phono preamp is a must then in my opinion.

 Since you sound like you're connecting through your receiver you'll want to make sure the phono input on your receiver (if it has one) actually employs RIAA equalization. Although Peete is willing to bet that it does I would not be surprised at all if it doesn't as many receivers do not carry that any more but I didn't catch what receiver you have so I couldn't say. If your receiver does have one it may have an in-built phono preamp which is just fine. If not (or if you want to upgrade phono preamps) there are plenty of options. If it doesn't have one then in my opinion you need one.

 I do something similar to what you two talked about using the tape monitor connection. My NAD integrated doesn't have spare preamp outputs but I can and do use the tape monitor output to listen to my CD player or record player on my Starving Student headphone amp. My connection is similar to what you'd need if you don't have a phono preamp in your receiver. My turntable is connected to my phono preamp which is in turn connected to the input on my amplifier._

 

Dude, yes it was a bit pricey (the cartridge). But as far as wanting to hook up the Compass to my turntable so I can use my headphones, yes I would like to do that and am trying to learn what my different options are. I currently can't do it at all with the receiver that it's currently hooked up to because my receiver doesn't have a headphone out. However it does have a phono input. It really is a nice and powerful (200 watts rms x 7 @ 8 ohms) all purpose receiver for being one unit rather then separates. However if I knew then what I knew now, I would have probably gone with separates, maybe down the road. Either way I don't regret the purchase at all. 

 Sorry, I tend to ramble often, very often. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway after reading some other peoples posts about my Compass setup, the phono "preamp" came into question. Well I don't have one and never thought about it since my receiver has the phono input and ground. The only thing it says in my receivers manual about attacking a turntable is to make sure it's either an MM or and high output MC. And as far as outputs like a preamp output, it has a few different ones though they call them just "stereo" outputs. I've never used them so I'm not sure. They do say that they are a fixed output though, so I suppose it would need it's own volume control. Some more stuff I'm not too familiar with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It doesn't mention the quality of the phono input source and whether or not is has the RIAA equalization like you mentioned. This stuff is very new to me since I've never researched it before, nor was I asked about it when I purchased my turntable. After reading up more this week about phono preamps and the specs of my cartridge, I got VERY curious, then confused. However it was also helpful but actually made me start questioning my the sound quality of my turntable running directly through my receiver. My vinyl will run VERY bass heavy, not to mention I have to turn up the volume control quite a bit more compared to any other input. I just assumed this was do to the nature of being analog. And it might be, I'm not sure. After I make some adjustments it sounds great, but it still got me thinking after reading what a phono preamp is intended to do.

 The reason this is important to me and related to the Compass is because I own more vinyl then I do any other source. And the Compass is what I will actually need to be able to use my headphones, plus I want the best possible sound out of my vinyl of coarse. Basically during my research about how to hook up the Compass to my receiver to accomplish this I started to second guess my setup for sound quality. And being new to standalone phono preamps I just became over whelmed with my options and even questioned what my options are due to the type of cartridge I have. 

 No I don't only want the Compass connected to the turntable, but also my cd player and PC as well. The turntable research just through me for a loop I wasn't expecting. So anyway, if all the "phono" talk is way off topic then I'll just zip it since the last thing I want to do is derail this thread and upset people. I just need a bit more help outside of the Compass now that I didn't think I needed. So while it's relevant to me, it might not be proper for this thread.

 Sorry for the rambling everyone. The "strong" pain meds I take for my back really F's with my memory and makes it very difficult to focus. So instead of just "Spitting it out" and getting to the point, I ramble. Again I apologize to everyone for this because I know people don't like to read a wall of text. Thanks you for your help csroc, sorry if my post is difficult to follow. And anyone, please let me know if this is too off topic please, I will kindly take it somewhere else. Thanks everyone for your help, patience and understanding. I'm quite lucky to find such a killer forum with awesome guys and gals here.


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_59 Hours of burn in so far and the bass has DEFINITELY toned down. It is sounding more neutral and balanced in weight (despite being Soft 2). Only a little bit of bass emphasis still lingering, right where I would like it to be honestly. Now the goal is to replicate the sound at this point in time I would say, as far as the bass is concerned.

 I tested the gain settings. Up until today, I had only used the lower gain setting on both of my phones. I switched to high today, no sound difference as far as I can tell, only volume. Think I want to keep it on the low gain setting then as it will allow me greater adjust ability within my preferred listening volumes.

 I have to question the legitimacy of what Im about to say but it honestly seems like the Compass isnt running as hot anymore. The first two days I could see why some were concerned about the sort of heat the Compass put out, but now it doesnt seem as hot as it was. It may be possible that the heat sink compound is balancing itself out just like you can overclock a processor a tiny bit higher a couple days after first getting it, but I doubt that. Only commenting on what Ive noticed, cant claim legitimacy to the findings though, lol._

 

I'm happy for you and the results your having with your Compass, that's awesome news! My impatience is starting to grow stronger day by day waiting for mine. 

 As far as the temp thing, I own a few nice temp guns and check that out once I get mine. Might be something sort of fun to check out. Maybe I'll take readings like every 20 hours or so of use, maybe more frequently for the first 50-100 hours or until it stops changing. That is if it changes which it very possible it is. Just a thought. 

 May I ask what approach your taking for burn in. Thanks.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It doesn't mention the quality of the phono input source and whether or not is has the RIAA equalization like you mentioned. This stuff is very new to me since I've never researched it before, nor was I asked about it when I purchased my turntable. After reading up more this week about phono preamps and the specs of my cartridge, I got VERY curious, then confused. However it was also helpful but actually made me start questioning my the sound quality of my turntable running directly through my receiver. My vinyl will run VERY bass heavy, not to mention I have to turn up the volume control quite a bit more compared to any other input. I just assumed this was do to the nature of being analog. And it might be, I'm not sure. After I make some adjustments it sounds great, but it still got me thinking after reading what a phono preamp is intended to do._

 

Ha, this is getting very off topic, but what the hey. If your phono input sounds bass heavy you can rest assured it's RIAA equalized, however it might be that it's not equalized very well. So in that case, a separate phono amplifier and connecting that to either the receiver or the Compass would help a lot. It could very well be that the phono stage in your receiver is a real bottleneck here.
 The fact that it's rather low in volume is partly an aspect of vinyl, but might also have to do with the way the phono stage in that receiver works. Apparently, that phono stage was designed with amplification of the signal of a moving magnet cartridge in mind. However, the Grado cartridges appear to be hybrids between moving coil and moving magnet (called 'moving iron') and the Statement series cartridge has a very low output voltage (0.5 mV). This means that the phono stage in your receiver is probably not giving it sufficient amplification. Either a Grado phono amplifier or (probably) any other kind of phono amplifier suitable for moving coil amplification should remedy this problem. (I think, but those of you with more experience in vinyl than I have: please correct me if I'm wrong.)

 Oh yeah, don't worry too much about multiple posts. This thread is already at 4200+ posts, a few more won't matter.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_May I ask what approach your taking for burn in. Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I just make sure to have it playing something at all times. Either Im listening to it or its playing pink noise in a continuous loop (pink noise file from here: Burn-in wave files: white noise, pink noise, frequency sweep, channel mix). At night, when I dont have my desktop running (dorm room and its a water cooled, OCed gaming rig so bright and loud), I hook it up to my laptop under my desk (also bright and loud but less so) and have that playing the loop with my headphones in their very sound proofed case.

 As far as keeping track of time, I know I hooked it up around 4pm in the afternoon on Monday. If it plays constantly then you can figure out the hours.


----------



## idunno

I hadn't checked it in a while, but my Compass also seems to be running much cooler than it did at first. Might be my mind playing tricks on me, but that impression of "wow, that's warm" is gone. Could be from removing the padding on the opa.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hadn't checked it in a while, but my Compass also seems to be running much cooler than it did at first. Might be my mind playing tricks on me, but that impression of "wow, that's warm" is gone. Could be from removing the padding on the opa._

 

This is really intriguing and it made me check the casing temperature of my Compass. What do you know, it's barely above room temperature now. I remember it used to get worryingly warm/hot in the first days I used it.

 Now what on earth could be the explanation for this?


----------



## Clok

The Compass doesn't make any buzzing noise right?

 My zero dac does this and its kinda annoying.


----------



## Sganzerla

"Zero" noise!
 But it warms my room for sure.


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha, this is getting very off topic, but what the hey. If your phono input sounds bass heavy you can rest assured it's RIAA equalized, however it might be that it's not equalized very well. So in that case, a separate phono amplifier and connecting that to either the receiver or the Compass would help a lot. It could very well be that the phono stage in your receiver is a real bottleneck here.
 The fact that it's rather low in volume is partly an aspect of vinyl, but might also have to do with the way the phono stage in that receiver works. Apparently, that phono stage was designed with amplification of the signal of a moving magnet cartridge in mind. However, the Grado cartridges appear to be hybrids between moving coil and moving magnet (called 'moving iron') and the Statement series cartridge has a very low output voltage (0.5 mV). This means that the phono stage in your receiver is probably not giving it sufficient amplification. Either a Grado phono amplifier or (probably) any other kind of phono amplifier suitable for moving coil amplification should remedy this problem. (I think, but those of you with more experience in vinyl than I have: please correct me if I'm wrong.)

 Oh yeah, don't worry too much about multiple posts. This thread is already at 4200+ posts, a few more won't matter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Drosera dude, thank you very much for your input. I appreciate it very much. Yeah, I suppose your right on me swaying quite a bit off the topic here so I'll drop any more follow up on this subject. It's just nice to hear what others have to say even after days of research. Darn audio stuff. I wish I could borrow any equipment I wanted to try just to confirm suspicion, that way I could give it back if I don't like the result and save $$. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My main concern is that darn Grado cartridge of mine with that low input voltage and the whole "moving iron" thing. I'll eventually figure it out. In the mean time I just need to wait for my happy little Compass to get here is all and go from there. Oh yeah, I was trying to find some of those 240 sextett(?) headphones you mentioned but they seem rather rare. Do they pop up on Ebay every now and then?

 Anyway, I appreciate your help as always. I wish I had a friend or neighbor like you as well. I guess that's one reason I'm here though, huh? Cool man, thanks again buddy.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My main concern is that darn Grado cartridge of mine with that low input voltage and the whole "moving iron" thing. I'll eventually figure it out. In the mean time I just need to wait for my happy little Compass to get here is all and go from there._

 

It shouldn't be too difficult really. I figure it needs about the same kind of amplification as MC output, just more than MM output. Maybe you could send Grado Labs an email and ask them what they would recommend.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh yeah, I was trying to find some of those 240 sextett(?) headphones you mentioned but they seem rather rare. Do they pop up on Ebay every now and then?_

 

Actually, they are suprisingly common considering a lot of them are over 30 years old. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Although they seem to be more common here in Europe than in the US. Still, they regularly pop up on eBay and the For Sale forum here. The AKG K240 Sextetts were the first in a long line of models that are still sold today. Some of the most current versions are the K242 and the K240 Mk II. But a lot of people here will tell you that the first versions (the Sextett and the DF) were the best of the bunch. (It takes too long to go into the details, but there's plenty of information on them here on head-fi.) Anyways, I just mentioned them as something to keep in mind for later. I don't think they should be your immediate concern. It's just that they struck as quite well suited for metal: they're fast, punchy, quite resolving but with forgiving midrange and highs. (Still better if you like 70's bluesrock though, they're ideal for Led Zeppelin and early Deep Purple.)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Anyway, I appreciate your help as always. I wish I had a friend or neighbor like you as well. I guess that's one reason I'm here though, huh? Cool man, thanks again buddy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Glad to be of help. Yeah, it can be a frustrating fact that this is an internet-community and not a real life one. Wouldn't it be great to have the opportunity to simply listen to all these different amps and headphones before you would buy them?


----------



## Serpentd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just make sure to have it playing something at all times. Either Im listening to it or its playing pink noise in a continuous loop (pink noise file from here: Burn-in wave files: white noise, pink noise, frequency sweep, channel mix). At night, when I dont have my desktop running (dorm room and its a water cooled, OCed gaming rig so bright and loud), I hook it up to my laptop under my desk (also bright and loud but less so) and have that playing the loop with my headphones in their very sound proofed case.

 As far as keeping track of time, I know I hooked it up around 4pm in the afternoon on Monday. If it plays constantly then you can figure out the hours._

 

Thanks for the link dBs. Boy I sure have my work cut out for me. We recently moved and I don't have my "Good" pc up and running that I built just for audio, oh yeah, and games of coarse. It's not the set up that will take time obviously, it's all the damn boxes and crap I have in the way to set up a decent audio/gaming office. Of coarse I built this pc over 2 years ago so it's now obsolete after looking at some of the newer stuff out there. Dang it I have some expensive hobbies, at least here I don't feel alone with that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds like you have a killer rig yourself if you have a water cooling system going on. That's the one thing I haven't done yet.

 Anyway, it sounds as though others are noticing some possibly significant temp drops after a while which is always a good thing. So I will definitely plan on doing some temp tests. Maybe even every hour until it stabilizes. Not sure how I'll pull that off yet, but I'll figure something out.

 Oh yeah, it's cool to see another "Nightwish" fan around (killer music), that is if I read your sig right. Thanks again for your help dBs.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is really intriguing and it made me check the casing temperature of my Compass. What do you know, it's barely above room temperature now. I remember it used to get worryingly warm/hot in the first days I used it.

 Now what on earth could be the explanation for this?_

 

I noticed this same phenomenon on a Yulong DAH1 and a Little Dot MKV. Over the span of about 7 to 10 days this happened. I have an infrared thermometer and will measure my compass and plot the numbers when I get it if nobody else gets to it by then.

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I noticed this same phenomenon on a Yulong DAH1 and a Little Dot MKV. Over the span of about 7 to 10 days this happened. I have an infrared thermometer and will measure my compass and plot the numbers when I get it if nobody else gets to it by then._

 

Sounds like an interesting project. Make sure the circumstances are always equal. I've noticed that both the kind of headphones it's driving (impedance) and even the volume will influence temperature quite noticeably.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only thing it says in my receivers manual about attacking a turntable is to make sure it's either an MM or and high output MC. And as far as outputs like a preamp output, it has a few different ones though they call them just "stereo" outputs. I've never used them so I'm not sure. They do say that they are a fixed output though, so I suppose it would need it's own volume control. Some more stuff I'm not too familiar with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That tells me it does have a phono preamp built in, which is different from a preamp which controls volume that is built in to your receiver. All a phono preamp does is basically rebalance the frequency response of the vinyl record. Without it your bass would be very weak and your high frequencies heavily emphasized. Since you say bass is too strong then it's possible it's a poorly implemented phono preamp or it's a combination of factors due to it not being meant for a lot output cartridge like you have. 

  Quote:


 It doesn't mention the quality of the phono input source and whether or not is has the RIAA equalization like you mentioned. 
 

I could very well be wrong but chances are it's performing RIAA or some modified RIAA equalization if it is actually labeled as phono input. Generally from everything I've seen that's what phono input refers to today (decades ago there were other equalization schemes but RIAA has been prominent for a long time) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 My vinyl will run VERY bass heavy, not to mention I have to turn up the volume control quite a bit more compared to any other input. I just assumed this was do to the nature of being analog. 
 

I'm assuming it's the same issue like Drosera said. The phono preamp in your receiver isn't meant for your low output moving coil cartridge which will definitely result in lower levels and you'll find yourself turning it up more. There's very little difference in volume between my turntable and any of the other sources I use, but my cartridge and preamp match better (I am using a high output moving coil cartridge and if I recall my phono preamp is in moving magnet mode). Moving coil cartridge (MC) commonly have lower signal outputs than moving magnet (MM) and as Drosera said your cartridge is a hybrid but is of low output so it's at the MC end of the scale. You'll want a phono preamp that works well with MC cartridges, ideally that is good for low output ones.

 From the rest of your post, you've got a simple situation you need help getting sorted out. Yes you should be able to connect any of the line level RCA outs on your receiver to the Compass' analog RCA input. The Compass provides volume control so your receiver doesn't have to do that for you. If it did you'd be using a preamp output from your receiver which would be redundant with the volume control of the Compass. If your turntable causes you those troubles now it is likely going to be the same story through the Compass so getting a separate phono preamp may be the way to go. After that you can use your receiver to switch between CD, record and computer and it should all work just fine through your Compass.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the link dBs. Boy I sure have my work cut out for me. We recently moved and I don't have my "Good" pc up and running that I built just for audio, oh yeah, and games of coarse. It's not the set up that will take time obviously, it's all the damn boxes and crap I have in the way to set up a decent audio/gaming office. Of coarse I built this pc over 2 years ago so it's now obsolete after looking at some of the newer stuff out there. Dang it I have some expensive hobbies, at least here I don't feel alone with that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds like you have a killer rig yourself if you have a water cooling system going on. That's the one thing I haven't done yet.

 Anyway, it sounds as though others are noticing some possibly significant temp drops after a while which is always a good thing. So I will definitely plan on doing some temp tests. Maybe even every hour until it stabilizes. Not sure how I'll pull that off yet, but I'll figure something out.

 Oh yeah, it's cool to see another "Nightwish" fan around (killer music), that is if I read your sig right. Thanks again for your help dBs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi,
 I haven't been following your posts that much. But I think you said the Grado puts out 0.5 mv. If that is true, you need to find a MC capable phono stage to go into the Compass. That output puts it in the Low output MC range.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like an interesting project. Make sure the circumstances are always equal. I've noticed that both the kind of headphones it's driving (impedance) and even the volume will influence temperature quite noticeably._

 

Right,
 I'm thinking shooting a couple places on the external case and then some places around the inside. I'll look it over and setup the test before firing it up the first time. Won't be "Blind" though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If anybody with a Compass has one and has ideas of where to shoot temps at, just take a PIC off the webpage and Photoshop where you think we should shoot.


 .


----------



## csroc

I shot some temps of mine, I'll have to think about it. I found it would tend to be fairly warm along the bottom plate but obviously that's a bit tricky to measure. Additionally you would have to record ambient temperatures as well.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I shot some temps of mine, I'll have to think about it. I found it would tend to be fairly warm along the bottom plate but obviously that's a bit tricky to measure. Additionally you would have to record ambient temperatures as well._

 

Obviously a gun will get all the temps for me quick, so these are not an issue. I think Kingwa mentioned when someone asked about heat, that the Transistors heat sink to the case on he bottom? If you guys can put the test points together, I'll shoot the numbers. You guys are in a better position to put the tst points together because you have one in your hand. My plan is to get idle temps, or we could use PINK noise being driven for a certain amount of time each test?

 Drosera, if I get you the numbers, can you graph them, or do you want me to? I figured with what you do, numbers crunching would be a "Trivial" exercise.

 .


----------



## csroc

Graphing this sounds like a fairly trivial task so I'm sure anyone with Excel or anything else capable of spitting out a plot will be able to do it. Regarding where to measure, I'll look again and suggest a few locations. It would be interesting to see the temperature trend over time of different points on the case from a cold start. There will definitely be at least one on the bottom and one on the top I think although the bottom is the only case where it's in direct contact with transistors as mentioned.


----------



## direcow

I feel very very silly - I just realised that there are 2 pairs of jumpers, not one. Sigh.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Obviously a gun will get all the temps for me quick, so these are not an issue. I think Kingwa mentioned when someone asked about heat, that the Transistors heat sink to the case on he bottom? If you guys can put the test points together, I'll shoot the numbers. You guys are in a better position to put the tst points together because you have one in your hand. My plan is to get idle temps, or we could use PINK noise being driven for a certain amount of time each test?

 Drosera, if I get you the numbers, can you graph them, or do you want me to? I figured with what you do, numbers crunching would be a "Trivial" exercise._

 

Ha, I'd be happy to, but, as csroc said, there's not much of a challenge to it. At least, I wouldn't know what else to do except make a nice graph out of them. (Although, I guess, some simple statistical analysis could also be applied to see if the changes are really significant.)

 I believe Kingwa said that the entire chassis of the Compass works as a heatsink. It probably does to, aluminium conducts warmth really well.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel very very silly - I just realised that there are 2 pairs of jumpers, not one. Sigh._

 

Haha, sounds familiar. At one point I also changed the gain in just one channel, sounded very weird.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha, sounds familiar. At one point I also changed the gain in just one channel, sounded very weird._

 

Haha that would be odd.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel very very silly - I just realised that there are 2 pairs of jumpers, not one. Sigh._

 

Well I suppose a thank you is in order to whoever came up with the top cover instructions!


----------



## ScottieB

Did anyone else have a hard time removing the foam that protects the HDAM during shipping? It left a nasty layer of foam/glue/sticky stuff. Not a huge deal and I suppose some elbow grease and rubbing alcohol will get it off, but I was kind of ASSuming it would come right off... 

 So far I likey. Can tell it needs some more burnin, but the amp is clearly a large cut above that in the Zero. For the DAC alone I'm not sure yet - only did a little listening to my MKIII thru the compass so far. Want to wait for more hours before I draw any conclusions.


----------



## csroc

I never took the foam out of my test compass so I imagine it would not want to come off easily at this point.


----------



## Eric M

Well I have never owned, used, or heard an amp or dac before, even though I have owned many highend headphones, I went ahead and bought the Compass. Been meaning to get an get amp for my AKG 701's for years, figured I might as well start with a semi-end device to make up for lost time, instead starting with $100 devices. Hopefully I will actually hear a difference over my soundcard...


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did anyone else have a hard time removing the foam that protects the HDAM during shipping? It left a nasty layer of foam/glue/sticky stuff. Not a huge deal and I suppose some elbow grease and rubbing alcohol will get it off, but I was kind of ASSuming it would come right off... _

 

 Everytime I open the top case to change HDAM I try to clean a little more the foam mess that is there. Tried many things with no results.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eric M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have never owned, used, or heard an amp or dac before, even though I have owned many highend headphones, I went ahead and bought the Compass. Been meaning to get an get amp for my AKG 701's for years, figured I might as well start with a semi-end device to make up for lost time, instead starting with $100 devices. Hopefully I will actually hear a difference over my soundcard..._

 

 You'll be happy, I'm sure! Don't forget to buy Moon HDAM, it may be a better match then Earth (depending on your ears).


----------



## Eric M

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You'll be happy, I'm sure! Don't forget to buy Moon HDAM, it may be a better match then Earth (depending on your ears)._

 

I didn't buy any extra parts because the unit itself was still a little over my budget. I can buy the Moon separately later and install it myself right?


----------



## Sganzerla

Yes, but I don't know if the price will be the same, and have no idea of shipping costs too.


----------



## dBs

Good places to measure temperature is anywhere there are bolts connected to electronics. That means that some kind of heatsink is attached to a hot circuit element. Looking at my internal amp shot I would suggest
CompassAmp.jpg picture by tahoe_sushi - Photobucket
 The two transistors on the right attached to the bottom and with the white compound.
 The four transistors on the top of the picture that have the aluminum heatsinks attached.
 The HDAM.
 If you can, the toroid would be another good spot to check.

 Im sure you thought about some of this but Ill mention anyway. Measure the temperature outside the case first before you measure inside. Measuring outside the case I would get the top (above the toroid would be a hot spot but the front of the Compass is probably the hottest in general due to amps and toroid), and the bolts on the bottom where those two transistors attach to the bottom of the case.

 Have the Compass continue to play (if you can and feel confident enough doing that), when you make the measurements. Transistors actually cool off pretty quickly when they arent in use. The temperature of a CPU drops like a rock when turned off or not at 100% load. Honestly, I would think that just measuring the outside of the case would be enough. If its hot, its hot, if its not its not, and the only way itll be hot is if whats inside the case is hot. Theres no fans so the hot air wont be going anywhere. Also safer measuring that way, I wouldnt want anyone breaking their Compass for my goofball theory XD Of course be sure the ambient temperature of the room is the same or at least very close.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

All Right! Now we're cooking with gas! This thing is HUGE! 
 The aftermarket cable is a monster itself. Everything came as I expected so now to put the jumpers in and start some burn in.


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha that would be odd.



 Well I suppose a thank you is in order to whoever came up with the top cover instructions!_

 

I think that would be me as I recommended it in my orifginal review. Of course csroc has to be thanked for all the design work and making my idea a reality. I am also wondering if the "Padding" square is even close! I hope so... since the rest is so well done!


----------



## Joeoboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did anyone else have a hard time removing the foam that protects the HDAM during shipping? It left a nasty layer of foam/glue/sticky stuff. Not a huge deal and I suppose some elbow grease and rubbing alcohol will get it off, but I was kind of ASSuming it would come right off... _

 

 Stain remover ( basically dry cleaneing fluid) will remove it. Also, 3M sells adhesive remover which works well. It is used to remove trim mounting tape from automobiles.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eric M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have never owned, used, or heard an amp or dac before, even though I have owned many highend headphones, I went ahead and bought the Compass. Been meaning to get an get amp for my AKG 701's for years, figured I might as well start with a semi-end device to make up for lost time, instead starting with $100 devices. Hopefully I will actually hear a difference over my soundcard..._

 

I'd be amazed if you didn't "sense" the Noise Floor as being diminished and get a sense of increased 3-D effects over your SC, just to name a few easily discerned factors. I just sold most of my amps and DACs and had to resort back to my SC and it's pretty irritating to listen to.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, but I don't know if the price will be the same, and have no idea of shipping costs too._

 

$20 now or somehing like $47 later.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good places to measure temperature is anywhere there are bolts connected to electronics. That means that some kind of heatsink is attached to a hot circuit element. Looking at my internal amp shot I would suggest
CompassAmp.jpg picture by tahoe_sushi - Photobucket
 The two transistors on the right attached to the bottom and with the white compound.
 The four transistors on the top of the picture that have the aluminum heatsinks attached.
 The HDAM.
 If you can, the toroid would be another good spot to check.

 Im sure you thought about some of this but Ill mention anyway. Measure the temperature outside the case first before you measure inside. Measuring outside the case I would get the top (above the toroid would be a hot spot but the front of the Compass is probably the hottest in general due to amps and toroid), and the bolts on the bottom where those two transistors attach to the bottom of the case.

 Have the Compass continue to play (if you can and feel confident enough doing that), when you make the measurements. Transistors actually cool off pretty quickly when they arent in use. The temperature of a CPU drops like a rock when turned off or not at 100% load. Honestly, I would think that just measuring the outside of the case would be enough. If its hot, its hot, if its not its not, and the only way itll be hot is if whats inside the case is hot. Theres no fans so the hot air wont be going anywhere. Also safer measuring that way, I wouldnt want anyone breaking their Compass for my goofball theory XD Of course be sure the ambient temperature of the room is the same or at least very close._

 

All of those points and considerations are on my list. I'll put some tape markers on the external case so that I get the same spot each time. I'll also draw up some targets on the boards with Photoshop. I really won't know all the spots till I fire it up the first time and probe with the thermometer.

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Serpentd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete, dude you are too awesome bro. You know Dream Theater is working on their 10th studio album and should be released this summer I think. I'm stoked to hear their new material.

 Your "tape out" explanation made perfect sense, and yes is does have the tape function you speak of (I think). I've never used the tape out, but I'm sure that will work. Your also correct about my receiver having an integrated phono stage. Do you have a crystal ball or something to assume all this or what? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As far as the receiver I own, its called the "Ultimate Receiver" by Sunfire and was designed by Bob Carver. My turntable is an older style VPI. I think it's one of the HW-19 series. I know I said "Aries Scout" earlier, but I was wrong. My main concern now is after doing some research on my cartridge (Grado Statement Master Wood Body Phono Cartridge) is that it's one of the low output ones at 0.5mV. It seems as though I might benefit from having a separate phono stage for hook up with the Compass. Not sure really, as I mentioned earlier this was sort of an "Impulse" purchase without much research done, the turntable, arm and cartridge that is.

 As far as being part of the generation of not owning LP's, well that wouldn't be me at all. I'm almost 41 and have a decent album collection of about 3000+ LP's. However, the proper equipment is something I lack knowledge in. At least when it comes to "Hifi" stuff. I've learned a lot over the last few days of research in this category. However the last thing I want to do is derail this thread with "Phono" knowledge, but if you could squeak in a recommendation I would appreciate it. But if it risks upsetting folks or getting too far off track, then don't trip. Now you know why I once mentioned that I would love to have you as a neighbor. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you need more info, let me know Peete. Thanks again for all your help buddy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I want to apologize to everyone again for all the posts in a row. Like I said, my darn multi post function isn't working. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for everyone's understanding._

 

Do me a favor please could you have a look at the faceplate and give me the exact model number of the Sunfire and secondly (if possible) take a pic of the back panel and the front panel and send them to me via email (PM me for my email address) and I'll be able to give you exact instructions on how best to use the gear you have at hand.

 That TT and cartridge are way better than most peoples setups (on average) so phono amp would need to match the quality of that system. I'd stick with the built in phono amp of the Carver for now but look at phono stages from AcousticSound.com, for instance this unit is outstanding for the price AcousTech - PH-1 Phono Stage Premium Version - Phono Pre Amp

 Anyway I'm definitely looking forward to DT's new work and hope they get back to their roots some more compared to their last release (which I like a lot but it isn't their best by any means).

 I wouldn't mind having you as neighbor at all...would be cool .....besides I could store some of my surplus gear at your place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quite the pricey cartridge. 

 Anyway, are you talking about connecting your turntable directly to the Compass? If so the results will be less than desirable, you want to have the RIAA equalization to restore correct tonal balance among other things. A phono preamp is a must then in my opinion.

 Since you sound like you're connecting through your receiver you'll want to make sure the phono input on your receiver (if it has one) actually employs RIAA equalization. Although Peete is willing to bet that it does I would not be surprised at all if it doesn't as many receivers do not carry that any more but I didn't catch what receiver you have so I couldn't say. If your receiver does have one it may have an in-built phono preamp which is just fine. If not (or if you want to upgrade phono preamps) there are plenty of options. If it doesn't have one then in my opinion you need one.

 I do something similar to what you two talked about using the tape monitor connection. My NAD integrated doesn't have spare preamp outputs but I can and do use the tape monitor output to listen to my CD player or record player on my Starving Student headphone amp. My connection is similar to what you'd need if you don't have a phono preamp in your receiver. My turntable is connected to my phono preamp which is in turn connected to the input on my amplifier._

 


 It would have to csroc (don't know why I thought it was dro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) if it works and gets a decent volume level from that unit...it's impossible to amp a 0.5mV signal with a regular aux input, it simply won't have 68db of gain (or more) plus the fact that it will need a MC/MM switch to adjust impedance loading and gain structure, not to mention applying the correct RIAA equalization curve. I'm nearly 100% sure that the Sunfire has a fully adjustable Phono stage built into it I just need the pics to verify it.

 Anyway sorry for OT stuff.

 The blue Lock Tite compound is what I use for semi permanent glue jobs. It should work very well with the Compass knobs as would a low strength glue from a glue gun do an equally fine job. Just remember folks you don't need a lot to do the job...just 1 or 2 drops will do and don't use the knob until it's completely set. If it comes loose down the road then simply reapply some more when needed. It should hold for years though.

 Peete.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It would have to Dro if it works and gets a decent volume level from that unit...it's impossible to amp a 0.5mV signal with a regular aux input, it simply won't have 68db of gain (or more) plus the fact that it will need a MC/MM switch to adjust impedance loading and gain structure, not to mention applying the correct RIAA equalization curve. I'm nearly 100% sure that the Sunfire has a fully adjustable Phono stage built into it I just need the pics to verify it._

 

You're correct, with that little signal it would have to be doing something. I wasn't really thinking about or aware of the low signal output when I started responding in that post so I never went back and clarified. 

 I don't know what receiver he has anyway so I couldn't look up specs to help. And I'm a little rusty on a lot of my turntable related specifics at the moment. I put the setup I wanted together a few years ago and haven't thought much of it since


----------



## Pricklely Peete

No big deal csroc...we'll get it solved with a bit more info and some pics ( I hope).

 Nice work on the chassis lid BTW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.

 PS I found this link and wondered if this was your unit Serp ? http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/1003sun/ If it is it may have a menu selection on the front panel for MC or MM cartridge type (which would change the gain structure and possibly allow a simple gain load adjustment like 47K to say 100K ohms). The pics are not great but any fixed line level out would be the stereo L/R you would use to send a signal to the Compass Analog line in. You could then use the Receiver as normal and listen to any source through it on the Compass simply by hitting the Super switch (which would change the line level in from the DAC to the Analog line in). You simply hook up your CDP as normal to the digital input that is most common (most DVD's have optical and COAX outs) while CDP's usually have a COAX out. You can use USB out from the computer to the Compass and Optical or COAX out from the DVD/CDP to the Compass...the source selector allows choice of digital in while the super switch engages the other source your Sunfire Reveiver 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope that makes sense. It should work very well this way. One note do not stack the Compass on top of the Sunfire simply because of the digital electronics in the Sunfire may pollute the signal of the Compass with hash. Besides stacking components is never a good idea anyway. Just saying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh I almost forgot it looks as though there is no provision(switch) for MC/MM type on the back panel (hence my question about the on board menu selections). The manual should be able to tell you if that phono amp is strictly for MM type (meaning 2.5 mV min to 5.0 mV max average output ). If you check out Grados website they have two versions for their cartridges...one low output the other high output. All is not lost if the Sunfire does not have a low output MC setting. You simply need to either get a MM cartridge (as a temp solution) or buy a phono amp that can handle either type of of cartridge.


----------



## csroc

Thanks, honestly I had partly forgotten about the lid but was also lost in wonder about what happened to it. Then all of a sudden there were pictures.

 I've certainly heard people play records without RIAA equalization but as you say it's not any good and if you want to hear anything you have to crank that up extremely high. He was turning it up although it didn't sound like a lot and he had bass so yes that definitely implies some equalization.


----------



## mbd2884

BTW Kingwa has arranged to have Skylab review the Compass for those interested. Skylab is looking forward to hearing the Compass.

 To those who have never used an Amp with a 1/4" jack, ditch the 1/8' to 1/4" adapters and solder on a new 1/4" plug!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Agreed mbd...if you use a 1/4 in 95% of the time it's well worth changing the jack and eliminating the additional adapter (which does effect SQ).

 Peete.


----------



## renegade732

Very simplistic question here. So simplistic those of you fiending for a Compass might be insulted that someone like me got one. 

 What exactly is the pre-amp? If my setup goes Laptop > Compass > D5000 and I want to use it as a DAC/Amp, I should have the pre-amp set to off? I ask because I didn't pay attention when I got it and have been using it with it on for the last couple of days. Turning it off is a definite change in sound.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

All it is is a change in use.....your still amping the line level (2V) signal from the DAC to your head phones via the amp section. What the preamp switch does is reroute the signal from the headphone jack output to the Line out jacks on the back (to go to a stereo amp ---> to speakers). It is merely a slight change in routing for the most part. I hope that made sense.

 Peete.


----------



## renegade732

A slight change in routing shouldn't lead to such a change in sound though, should it? Perhaps it's just a change in volume and my ears are tricking me into thinking there's more to it.

 One thing I've noticed which I find a bit odd is that if I turn off the compass with the pre-amp off, it takes the blue power light about ten seconds to turn off. If I turn the Compass off with the pre-amp on, the light will go instantly.


----------



## ecclesand

I've been reading up on the Compass all day today because I'm interested in moving to a one box solution for my computer audio. I'm currently running an Oritek OMZ from my computer via a USB to SPDIF convertor and then to an older Meier Corda HA2-MKII SE single ended amp.

 I'm having trouble following the Audio GD website with regard to the extra opamps you can buy. Per the site, the unit comes with the earth opamp, but you can purchase the sun and moon opamps as an option. Are they an additional $20 each or for both?

 Also, for those of you that have yours already, what was the turnaround time from order/payment to actually receiving the unit. Has anyone had any trouble yet that would require the unit to be returned for repair? That's my biggest concern when it comes to buying from international vendors.

 Any info you folks can offer would be very helpful as I'm very interested in this unit.


----------



## dBs

Its $20 per HDAMs so if you want both $40. The turn around time will start once the next batches are done. The next batch is slated for the end of this month. No idea if there will be a finite quantity of them as a huge batch or if from that point on it will be per order. I will say that it was shipped on Wed and received on Monday for me. The biggest delay could potentially come from the customs check.

 I dont believe, other than the front knob issue, that anything has broken significantly for anyone else.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Mine has been solid throughout all it's testing. It's been taken apart quite a few times, taken in and out of various systems without any issues thus far. 

 Audio-gd is as good as it gets for a vendor regardless of location or language spoken. Superlative customer service + quick shipping = smooth transaction every time I've dealt with Audio-gd. That story is the same for all the others I'm willing to bet (that have taken the plunge).

 Kingwa will look after you, often personally, so no need to worry.

 Peete.


----------



## idunno

Kingwa has confirmed the use of glue, and that the glues discussed here are appropriate to the task. He's offering to pay me for the cost of glue... He's too good, I tell you. I'm trying some Duco Cement I had handy, since I only have hot hotmelt glue on hand right now.

 I would add that in spite of this knob issue, I still am quite impressed with the fit and finish of the Compass. A knob coming loose is nothing too unusual, and this thing is built like a tank!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *renegade732* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A slight change in routing shouldn't lead to such a change in sound though, should it? Perhaps it's just a change in volume and my ears are tricking me into thinking there's more to it.

 One thing I've noticed which I find a bit odd is that if I turn off the compass with the pre-amp off, it takes the blue power light about ten seconds to turn off. If I turn the Compass off with the pre-amp on, the light will go instantly._

 

Depends on what your running the preamp into .....when using preamp mode you must make sure the gain jumpers are set at low (13db for the test unit and 9 db for the final version). That is critical so you don't overload the amp inputs (of the system your running the preamp signal to).

 Are you sure you are using the Compass correctly ? There should be no change in SQ although a poor amp and speakers will degrade the signal from the Compass. When in preamp mode the headphone jack is disconnected ...it might help me to know what system you are using and how it is arranged (hook up, brand of amp, cabling etc).

 Peete.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm currently running an Oritek OMZ from my computer via a USB to SPDIF convertor and then to an older Meier Corda HA2-MKII SE single ended amp._

 

Where did you get the USB to SPDIF converter? I have problems with USB and static with my laptop and that sounds like it would be a solution.

 The service I've gotten from Audio gd, Kingwa and Cherry has been second to none, every time I have asked a question - I have gotten a prompt response. They kept up with several changes/additions to my order along the way and I received everything just as expected - other than the performance of the Compass has exceeded my expectations.

 I realize the Compass isn't finished burning in and I have switched from the Earth and put the Moon in and WOW! My friend lent me one of his Patricia Barber CD's and the sound is amazing. I will give some impressions later as this thing gets burned in.

 Was there supposed to be instructions on the lid? I don't have any on mine, no big deal in any case because keeping up with this thread I was already prepared for the jumpers when I put it in Neutral.


----------



## idunno

the instructions on the lid are with the final/third batch/rev2b/new faceplates version


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The lid instructions are for the final version Boomer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kingwa is working on a decent quality USB to SPDIF converter so hang tight for now. 

 Another option for you is to upgrade the laptop chipset drivers, make sure your mobo has the latest bios revision. Make sure the bios settings are not causing an issue with the USB bus, and finally have a look at the sound card settings for your particular mobo and see if there is any updates for that hardware in terms of drivers/USB mini port drivers etc...it could be your settings in the control panel causing this or a another program running in the background causing a conflict....do a search for your particular hardware and see if it's a software or hardware issue....what lappy and mobo do you have ? I'm good at tracking down answers for such things..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What music program are you using ?

 Peete.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you get the USB to SPDIF converter? I have problems with USB and static with my laptop and that sounds like it would be a solution._

 


 There are a few out there. I'm using this:
Buy Behringer U-CONTROL UCA202 USB-Audio Interface | Audio Interfaces & Convertors | Audio Interfaces | Musician's Friend

 There is also the Cryoparts Pop Pulse Link II, the Trends UD10, the HagUSB, and then some really pricey ones from Empirical Audio. I considered getting the HagUSB to replace the Behringer unit, but by the time I buy it, a good audio grade USB cable and a nice Silver Digital Coax cable, I'm up to around $300.

 I may just take the plunge on the Compass and then compare it to my current setup and sell whichever I like the least.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa is working on a decent quality USB to SPDIF converter so hang tight for now._

 

I thought the Compass already had USB input...


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Kingwa is working on a decent quality USB to SPDIF converter so hang tight for now. _

 

ooh. I'd be interested in this, just on principle.


----------



## renegade732

I'm not actually using the pre-amp for anything. All I have is usb going in and headphones going out. I was just fiddling with the switches and turning the pre-amp on definitely changes the sound.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Depends on what your running the preamp into .....when using preamp mode you must make sure the gain jumpers are set at low (13db for the test unit and 9 db for the final version). That is critical so you don't overload the amp inputs (of the system your running the preamp signal to).

 Are you sure you are using the Compass correctly ? There should be no change in SQ although a poor amp and speakers will degrade the signal from the Compass. When in preamp mode the headphone jack is disconnected ...it might help me to know what system you are using and how it is arranged (hook up, brand of amp, cabling etc).

 Peete._


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *renegade732* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not actually using the pre-amp for anything. All I have is usb going in and headphones going out. I was just fiddling with the switches and turning the pre-amp on definitely changes the sound._

 

sounds like something is wrong... turning on the preamp should kill the headphone out


----------



## Joeoboe

Wow... I just noticed that it has been one month since I posted my design for the inner lid... and now it is an actual product! During those posts people were very inpatient with the design process and just wanted us to stop designing so that the Compass could be built.
 Now.. just one month later, the product is finished and ready for production.... and the design is great looking!! Patience certainly paid off.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *renegade732* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not actually using the pre-amp for anything. All I have is usb going in and headphones going out. I was just fiddling with the switches and turning the pre-amp on definitely changes the sound._

 

 That's because the preamp toggle reroutes the amplified signal to the back panel preamp outputs to send that signal to an amplifiers L/R inputs. Your not supposed to listen via the headphone jack when the preamp function is engaged. No wonder it sounds different.


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sounds like something is wrong... turning on the preamp should kill the headphone out_

 

I'm not entirely sure it kills 100% of the headphone output to the jack but I will now check that....On mine the output is 100% quiet with no signal making it to the 650's while the preamp mode is engaged. Those of you with latest versions should try this experiment as I have the test unit without the relay.

 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not entirely sure it kills 100% of the headphone output to the jack but I will now check that....On mine the output is 100% quiet with no signal making it to the 650's while the preamp mode is engaged. Those of you with latest versions should try this experiment as I have the test unit without the relay.

 Peete._

 

Was one of the first things I did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Same here on new one, no sound at all in preamp mode.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the Compass already had USB input..._

 

It does but Boomer is having issues with USB from his laptop...not sure how the converter will cure that either now that I think about it some more...

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW Kingwa has arranged to have Skylab review the Compass for those interested. Skylab is looking forward to hearing the Compass._

 

I thought he was getting the C2-C? Or is he getting both?

 Anyways, since we have so many impressions of the Compass already and Skylab will do the comparison mainly with equipment he doesn't own anymore and hasn't heard in a long time, I can't do much else but shrug.

 Just my view though, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would value Skylab's authorative opinion quite highly.


----------



## moodyrn

skylab still has a lot of equipment in his possession. he also has heard a ton of stuff. his reviews has pretty much been spot on with the stuff i have heard. so his review of the compass(if there is a review) would be very valuable to me.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It does but Boomer is having issues with USB from his laptop...not sure how the converter will cure that either now that I think about it some more...

 Peete._

 

What I had in mind was using the spdif output of the onboard sound and use the converter to usb rather than usb to spdif. After looking at it though I could either find a 1/8" headphone to rca would work also, and probably be cheaper. Concerned about SQ going that route.

 As for the advice you gave me Peete about the drivers and everything I am in the process of double checking that I have updated everything and experimenting with turning off what I don't need. I have had this problem ever since I first tried to use USB output for audio, Razer Barracudas, Turtle Beach DAC, and external creative x-fi. I have updated all the drivers, ie video, chipset, flashed the bios. I have used several audio programs and currently using mediamonkey. My laptop is a HP DV9702us, the motherboard is Quanta 30BD 66.42. Ive got 4gb ram. I have tried setting whatever audio program I am using to the highest priority and no dice.

 I will post in the computer audio forum so as not to get this too far off topic of the Compass, I know that its my laptop, I want to blame Vista but I've read that others have had the problem with XP also. Oh well, like I needed an excuse to build that desktop I've been putting off.


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not entirely sure it kills 100% of the headphone output to the jack but I will now check that....On mine the output is 100% quiet with no signal making it to the 650's while the preamp mode is engaged. Those of you with latest versions should try this experiment as I have the test unit without the relay.
 Peete._

 

yeah, my headphone out is dead silent with the preamp mode engaged


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah, my headphone out is dead silent with the preamp mode engaged_

 

Maybe his buttons are rewired and it's the Gain switch instead?

 .


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It does but Boomer is having issues with USB from his laptop...not sure how the converter will cure that either now that I think about it some more...

 Peete._

 

Speaking of which, I just realised that having my compass connected via USB my system has been trying to install some PCI hardware... It might be my USB card so I'll dig around.

 has anybody else noticed this tho?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyways, since we have so many impressions of the Compass already and Skylab will do the comparison mainly with equipment he doesn't own anymore and hasn't heard in a long time, I can't do much else but shrug._

 

I can't help but feel the same about many of the comparisons made by reviewers to equipment they no longer own. But I thought Skylab had a reasonable collection of gear still which he can compare to the Compass. Hopefully through that someone can extrapolate something meaningful to other components if they wished.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't help but feel the same about many of the comparisons made by reviewers to equipment they no longer own. But I thought Skylab had a reasonable collection of gear still which he can compare to the Compass. Hopefully through that someone can extrapolate something meaningful to other components if they wished._

 

I should have been more specific, what I meant was that he no longer has much directly relevant gear to compare the Compass amp with. Almost all his amps are tube amps these days. Comparing tube amps and SS amps is apples and pears.

 Anyways, I don't want to come across all curmudgeonly here. It also reflects the fact that the more I do comparisons and the more I control the circumstances of those comparisons, the more sceptical I get about comparative reviews in general. (And yes, that certainly does not exclude my own. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## ecclesand

For those of you that own the Compass, how would you rank the SQ of the inputs (Coax, Optical, USB)?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those of you that own the Compass, how would you rank the SQ of the inputs (Coax, Optical, USB)?_

 

That's actually quite difficult to say, to give a good answer you would need to test with an enormous number of different transports, because it all depends on the quality of the signal going in. 

 Personally, I would rate them as:

 1. Coax
 2. Optical
 3. USB


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's actually quite difficult to say, to give a good answer you would need to test with an enormous number of different transports, because it all depends on the quality of the signal going in. 

 Personally, I would rate them as:

 1. Coax
 2. Optical
 3. USB_

 

Interesting ratings. So if my source is my PC you would recommend going out of the sound card directly into the Compass? I plan on trying all 3 when I get my Compass, but I guess I figured there was a consensus that USB was the way to go.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting ratings. So if my source is my PC you would recommend going out of the sound card directly into the Compass? I plan on trying all 3 when I get my Compass, but I guess I figured there was a consensus that USB was the way to go._

 

Appearance of consensus is usually reached by those prepared to shout the loudest. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Have you seen many comparisons here of the quality of the different digital input options with the Compass? I certainly haven't.) 

 As I said a few times before, the only thing I can advise you is to experiment, so please do. Certainly with a coax digital out from a good soundcard there's a change that that would work better than the USB output. But there's no way to provide any hard and fast rule. There's just too many variables.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting ratings. So if my source is my PC you would recommend going out of the sound card directly into the Compass? I plan on trying all 3 when I get my Compass, but I guess I figured there was a consensus that USB was the way to go._

 

I would agree with Drosera in General except with a Caveat.

 COAX is "somewhat" susceptible to EMI/RFI, also Jitter induced from improper impedance inherent in RCA type connections. 

 Optical is more susceptible to Jitter, but if your Optical Transmitter is good quality, and the receiver is good quality and mates well with the transmitter, and your cable does not induce Jitter, I usually prefer Optical. Also with Optical, there is no Path for Ground Potential mismatches or Loops.

 USB would be a last last last last resort to me, if nothing else were available. I've always attributed this to how long I've been working with Computers and Computer Hardware. I've just never been impressed with USB as far as performance and reliability is concerned. It's good for a Mouse or a keyboard though.

 It is interesting to note that Kingwa wants his REF1 to be connected with Coaxial BNC connectors that have, according to him, 1/10 as much jitter as Coaxial RCA connectors. This is attributed to proper impedance of BNC connectors and proper coaxial cable.

 So, on my System, I have a HT Omega Claro Halo

 I'll connect the REF1 with BNC COAX.

 I'm sending Optical to a S/Pdif splitter that makes 4 COAX S/Pdif and one Optical output.

 I'm passing the Optiacal S/Pdif to the Compass

 I'm passing one of the COAX S/Pdif outputs to my Digital 2.1 Monitors

 I'll try the USB at some point just to get a feel for it, but you can't send 24/96 S/Pdif to it, so that's kind of a deal breaker also. 

 .


----------



## ScottieB

To me the big downside of USB is that it won't do 24/96. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and other "hires" audio I've bought online, so I like to be able to listen to it in full quality. As I understand the USB input only does 16/48.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I should have been more specific, what I meant was that he no longer has much directly relevant gear to compare the Compass amp with. Almost all his amps are tube amps these days. Comparing tube amps and SS amps is apples and pears._

 

Ah fair enough then. Well I still stand by what I said as well. Comparing by memory to something you no longer own isn't terribly reliable either.

 Still if he's got notes comparing his tube gear to competitors to the Compass and in turn he compares the Compass to the tube gear... maybe we'll get something. Although I agree with what you're saying about _that_ as well.


----------



## csroc

That is correct ScottieB. The audio on my computer is not really higher than 16/48 anyway as most of it is sourced from CDs.

 In my case I've found no real issues with USB or Coax either way however Coax certainly frees up a USB port if I need it although I don't right now. My Compass is still connected via Coax though most of the time although USB is also connected.

 I suspect when I move a Compass over to my stereo I will continue to use Coax although truth be told I haven't a clue what outputs are actually on the back of my NAD CD player.


----------



## Drosera

I almost completely agree with you Les. It's just that I tried to answer the question at the level of the Compass, which probably won't get connected to dedicated source computers or good optical disc transports.

 I think optical would be ideal in high end applications if it weren't for that rather cheap TosLink connector. I'm not sure how much of a bottleneck it is, but they certainly could have done better than that. I know in the early days there was a competing optical connector that was far better but also far more expensive. It has totally disappeared since then, I can't even find any information on it to link to. Cheapness won out.

 But this is not very relevant to the Compass anyways.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suspect when I move a Compass over to my stereo I will continue to use Coax although truth be told I haven't a clue what outputs are actually on the back of my NAD CD player._

 

Your Nad C542 has a coax digital out.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I almost completely agree with you Les. It's just that I tried to answer the question at the level of the Compass, which probably won't get connected to dedicated source computers or good optical disc transports.

 I think optical would be ideal in high end applications if it weren't for that rather cheap TosLink connector. I'm not sure how much of a bottleneck it is, but they certainly could have done better than that. I know in the early days there was a competing optical connector that was far better but also far more expensive. It has totally disappeared since then, I can't even find any information on it to link to. Cheapness won out.

 But this is not very relevant to the Compass anyways.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've done a lot of work with Long haul Transport Lasers for Data Transport. Along the way, I learned how to "manually" terminate Singlemode Fiber. I'm talking Glue/Catalyst, Glass polishing boards, Fiber cleavers, and polishing paper, and inspection microscopes. Old School!

 I was always amazed that you could line up a 9 micron diameter Fiber core with such extreme accuracy with a Plastic connector!

 Toslink I believe has a 1000 micron core, and obviously an LED, not a Laser drives it.

 Those connectors are definitely more controlled tolerances than Toslink. Toslink always Feels a little Dodgy to me when you plug it in. Sorta feels like it will pop out of the Jack.


 .


----------



## Thundernuts

It looks like the compass may use discrete opamps similar to these:

Burson Single Opamp X2 upgrad 4 most Rotel Meridian CDP - eBay Players, CD Players, Audio, Electronics. (end time 24-Mar-09 22:44:37 AEDST)

 not sure if the Compass uses clones, but the one's listed above are hand-made and hand-matched after each component is burnt in for 100 hours to ensure evenly matched tolerances. (Burn-and-match etc)

 Perhaps the difference's people are hearing after 'brun-in' of their amps may be attributed to the Compass' OPAMPS not being burnt in and hand-matched prior to assembly.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It looks like the compass may use discrete opamps similar to these:

Burson Single Opamp X2 upgrad 4 most Rotel Meridian CDP - eBay Players, CD Players, Audio, Electronics. (end time 24-Mar-09 22:44:37 AEDST)

 not sure if the Compass uses clones, but the one's listed above are hand-made and hand-matched after each component is burnt in for 100 hours to ensure evenly matched tolerances. (Burn-and-match etc)

 Perhaps the difference's people are hearing after 'brun-in' of their amps may be attributed to the Compass' OPAMPS not being burnt in and hand-matched prior to assembly._

 

Audio-GD makes those for Burson.

 I sent a pic of a Burson of mine, and Kingwa told me he made it.

 .


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your Nad C542 has a coax digital out._

 

Glad you could tell me, I'm just too lazy to look at the back of it right now!


----------



## haloxt

Do you think the digital output of a sound card can be technically superior to USB output? They both have the same issues from using a computer right? And I wonder if being in a PCI slot exposes a sound card to even more jitter than USB (probably not the case for laptops with built-in optical output).

 I prefer USB to the optical output of my halo sound card, and the optical output out of my iriver h120 player (probably equivalent to a cheap cd player optical) is somewhere in the middle of different ASIO drivers. I think it's likely the optical out of cd-players is better than computer USB, but I don't think the optical out of sound cards is.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you think the digital output of a sound card can be technically superior to USB output? They both have the same issues from using a computer right? And I wonder if being in a PCI slot exposes a sound card to even more jitter than USB (probably not the case for laptops with built-in optical output).

 I prefer USB to the optical output of my halo sound card, and the optical output out of my iriver h120 player (probably equivalent to a cheap cd player optical) is somewhere in the middle of different ASIO drivers. I think it's likely the optical out of cd-players is better than computer USB, but I don't think the optical out of sound cards is._

 

I haven't tried USB to be honest. That's where I referenced that a long time in Hardware makes me mistrustful of USB. SPDIF is dedicated, USB is shared. I may give it a try eventually with the Compass, but no promises there. The interfaces are different and have different issues affecting them. Some problems affect both, some may not. I can produce noise by working with anything that works my graphics card much. Like resizing a window, or working in a graphics program. The glaring problem with USB to me is lack of 24/96 support. LOTs of my suff is 24/96.

 I just got rid of a bunch of gear and am waiting for new stuff, so am stuck with the Halo Headamp now. Not overwhelmed with it.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad you could tell me, I'm just too lazy to look at the back of it right now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

We aim to please (said the commander of the firing squad).


----------



## ScottieB

We aim to please, will you aim too, please? (what it says next to the toilet at my inlaws')


----------



## Mik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SPDIF is dedicated, USB is shared._

 

I agree, having multiple devices connected to the same USB hub all sharing resources may not be ideal, neither is having a dac hooked up through an external usb hub. If you need to use more USB devices than just a dac, you could connect them to other ports (eSATA or firewire for external hard drives, or even put them in a NAS), or possibly install a second USB card to connect extra usb devices.


----------



## JackKander

So connecting the Compass through my motherboards optical/coax port could very easily be better than through USB?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JackKander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So connecting the Compass through my motherboards optical/coax port could very easily be better than through USB?_

 

Hm, in the first example the person was talking about coax out from a soundcard. Coax out from a motherboard is less likely to be good, if only because a soundcard probably has better quality components.
 But again, try it out and see what works best. I did, and I haven't come across a worse source for a digital audio signal than the optical out of my motherboard, USB works much better for me.


----------



## JackKander

Alright, I will do that once I receive my compass. Since we're on the subject, what would be a good, inexpensive soundcard if I wanted quality optical/coax ports? Hopefully I'm not derailing this thread.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm, in the first example the person was talking about coax out from a soundcard. Coax out from a motherboard is less likely to be good, if only because a soundcard probably has better quality components.
 But again, try it out and see what works best. I did, and I haven't come across a worse source for a digital audio signal than the optical out of my motherboard, USB works much better for me._

 

I can see that happening, and have seen it on my board.

 An Audiophile complaining about the quality of On Board sound is kinda like a Gamer complaining about the quality of On Board Video. What did you expect?


 .


----------



## Zanth

For a very very long time, I have searched for the perfect dac/amp combo to use at work. My Macbook Pro is um...lackluster at best. Anyhow, reading the problems about the Meier Audio top of the line Symphony combo and the price/performance of the Headroom Maxed out desktop stuff, I simply was not thrilled. Benchmark was about the only one I was seriously considering until this little gem came up. I've followed the thread very closely and really want to applaud Currawong for his excellent impressions and organizing and keeping track of the changes in the first post. Well, I'm convinced and ordered up a Compass for work and a Reference One for home/main system. The One will arrive late April once I convince my boss I need a bonus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Compass should be here early April. I'll be writing up some reviews for both. I can't wait!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For a very very long time, I have searched for the perfect dac/amp combo to use at work. My Macbook Pro is um...lackluster at best. Anyhow, reading the problems about the Meier Audio top of the line Symphony combo and the price/performance of the Headroom Maxed out desktop stuff, I simply was not thrilled. Benchmark was about the only one I was seriously considering until this little gem came up. I've followed the thread very closely and really want to applaud Currawong for his excellent impressions and organizing and keeping track of the changes in the first post. Well, I'm convinced and ordered up a Compass for work and a Reference One for home/main system. The One will arrive late April once I convince my boss I need a bonus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Compass should be here early April. I'll be writing up some reviews for both. I can't wait!_

 

Welcome to the world of Audio-gd! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can we look forward to a comparison of your modified Shanling cd-player and the Reference One? I hope so.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I had in mind was using the spdif output of the onboard sound and use the converter to usb rather than usb to spdif. After looking at it though I could either find a 1/8" headphone to rca would work also, and probably be cheaper. Concerned about SQ going that route.

 As for the advice you gave me Peete about the drivers and everything I am in the process of double checking that I have updated everything and experimenting with turning off what I don't need. I have had this problem ever since I first tried to use USB output for audio, Razer Barracudas, Turtle Beach DAC, and external creative x-fi. I have updated all the drivers, ie video, chipset, flashed the bios. I have used several audio programs and currently using mediamonkey. My laptop is a HP DV9702us, the motherboard is Quanta 30BD 66.42. Ive got 4gb ram. I have tried setting whatever audio program I am using to the highest priority and no dice.

 I will post in the computer audio forum so as not to get this too far off topic of the Compass, I know that its my laptop, I want to blame Vista but I've read that others have had the problem with XP also. Oh well, like I needed an excuse to build that desktop I've been putting off._

 

It certainly seems like you've tried everything I would have tried. Maybe some further digging at the HP support site may uncover a user initiated solution as a last resort.

 I have no issues with any of the digital outs with my desktop in terms of "glitches" using a Asus Max Formula, 2 gig DDR 2, Quad core P4, Auzen Prelude SC (used as transport) XP Pro SP3. I'll see what I can find with your mobo....it might be a south bridge driver causing a prob or it could be third party support...who knows for sure....and it could be Vista in this case...too many variables to narrow anything down although your due diligence thus far in trying to narrow down a possible cause is noteworthy and commendable.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of which, I just realised that having my compass connected via USB my system has been trying to install some PCI hardware... It might be my USB card so I'll dig around.

 has anybody else noticed this tho?_

 

This is normal as the USB bus controller in the computer(via the XP/Vista) is trying to interface with the Compass USB section.

 Peete.


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the world of Audio-gd! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Can we look forward to a comparison of your modified Shanling cd-player and the Reference One? I hope so._

 

Definitely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is nice that the Shanling has coax digital output!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For a very very long time, I have searched for the perfect dac/amp combo to use at work. My Macbook Pro is um...lackluster at best. Anyhow, reading the problems about the Meier Audio top of the line Symphony combo and the price/performance of the Headroom Maxed out desktop stuff, I simply was not thrilled. Benchmark was about the only one I was seriously considering until this little gem came up. I've followed the thread very closely and really want to applaud Currawong for his excellent impressions and organizing and keeping track of the changes in the first post. Well, I'm convinced and ordered up a Compass for work and a Reference One for home/main system. The One will arrive late April once I convince my boss I need a bonus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Compass should be here early April. I'll be writing up some reviews for both. I can't wait!_

 

Nice Combo Order! You can use the analytical ability of your new PS-1000s to help us analyze these gadgets. What amp for the REF1?

 .


----------



## Zanth

I will have 2 major amps on hand: EAR HP4 and the Melos SHA-X. I won't have any top shelf all solid state amps, though perhaps I could request someone loan me a really good solid state amp as I review the Dacs.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Where are you located Zanth (generally speaking of course) ? I may be able to help you out with that SS amp question.

 Peete.


----------



## Zanth

Hey Peete,

 I'm in Ottawa. I'd pay insured shipping both ways. This would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## drummer1985

hi all,what is the super mode button do to the sound quality? i have read in their website but unsure what it's describing there. thank you.


----------



## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_59 Hours of burn in so far and the bass has DEFINITELY toned down. It is sounding more neutral and balanced in weight (despite being Soft 2). Only a little bit of bass emphasis still lingering, right where I would like it to be honestly. Now the goal is to replicate the sound at this point in time I would say, as far as the bass is concerned._

 

Thats good to know. I'm getting too much bass out of my sr60's with the moon opamp in. Better then not enough bass though hehe.

 Biggie.


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drummer1985* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi all,what is the super mode button do to the sound quality? i have read in their website but unsure what it's describing there. thank you._

 

Is super mode the bypass of the amp so the Dac can be used alone feeding an outside amp or preamp?


----------



## dBs

Super effectively splits the DAC and amp portions so that they can be used independently of one another (at the same time even).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The Compass and the HDAM will be all over the place in the first 350 hours so make a note of that fellow Compass owners. It all evens out after 400+ hours with quite good sound staging and other improvements well into the 500+ hour range.

 Peete.

 PS Zanth....I'll have to think about it. I'll contact you via PM.


----------



## Sganzerla

Once I tried to see if there is a difference between coaxial from my motherboard and USB so I played coaxial via Foobar and USB with Winamp the song at the same time so I could hear the differences. Maybe by a very little margin the coaxial was better.

 But... if you try both via Winamp the difference in sound volume is huge, more like what MDB said sometime ago after going to MediaMonkey. So one begin to think what the hell is going on as both are (should be?) bit perfect.

 In this case I have no preference yet, but looks like coaxial has more extension on highs and tighter bass. The difference in volume don't help.
_Edit: Coaxial has more soundstage too._

 My experience with Earth said it never lost bass, only got stronger with time, the opposite was true with highs.

_ Edit:Happy to know PP, I'm still writing about the difference in HDAMs with time, both have 400 hours now._


----------



## renegade732

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe his buttons are rewired and it's the Gain switch instead?

 ._

 

I just did a quick check and that is definitely what has happened. Preamp and gain are switched.


----------



## theBigD

hey peete, when do we get the next installment of your epic review? i got a chance to listen to my roommates compass last night and it sounds very good. i put the sun in my ef1 amp and really like it. will have to see what happens when it burns in more.


----------



## dBs

Ive hit the 97 hour mark of burn in. I honestly havent heard much change since the 48 hour mark. I think at the most it continued its tapered progression of refinement of the lower end to a nice balanced point. The trebles continued their increased presence to the current balanced state. All of this is, as stated before, with the Soft 2 setting (so as to burn all parts of the Compass). Im really quite curious what Neutral or Bright would sound like since its current state sounds neutral and balanced to me. Unless the Compass plateaus its burn in for a while and then starts another sharp burst of change down the road, I believe I may have hit the burned in state.

 If this is the case, I am thinking that some modification is in order, I really want to play with the different HDAMs and jumper settings. The soundstage has slightly increased since its first day but nothing significant as far as I have been able to decipher, which is why I want to hear the soundstage of the Moon =O

 If any of the original 18 have any insight into this possible burn in plateau that indicate that I shouldnt modify yet, please let me know =D


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *renegade732* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just did a quick check and that is definitely what has happened. Preamp and gain are switched._

 

I'll bet that was confusing!!

 .


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *renegade732* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just did a quick check and that is definitely what has happened. Preamp and gain are switched._

 

Did you request it like that or did it come wired that way anyway?


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is normal as the USB bus controller in the computer(via the XP/Vista) is trying to interface with the Compass USB section.

 Peete._

 

Any idea how to turn it off? The system keeps recognising it and failing...

 and looks like I should try to get a good onboard soundcard to skip the USB.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any idea how to turn it off? The system keeps recognising it and failing...

 and looks like I should try to get a good onboard soundcard to skip the USB._

 

If you are using Vista, go to Control Panel>System>Advanced system settings(upper left corner)>Hardware tab>Windows Update Driver Settings>select "Never check for drivers when I connect a device."

 Then again I heard of another problem like yours which has no solution or something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## renegade732

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll bet that was confusing!!

 ._

 

Nevermind all that.

 Pre-amp and gain are not switched around. It's as it should be. I just looked at pictures of the the new back panel with labels and saw that I had read it improperly the first time. My unit has pre-amp labelled as Audio-GD and gain labelled as Compass so it was easy to get the two mixed up in my head.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any idea how to turn it off? The system keeps recognising it and failing...

 and looks like I should try to get a good onboard soundcard to skip the USB._

 

That isn't right. You need to associate the Compass device (USB device) in the control panel pop-up when you plug it in as an audio type device.....I can't remember the exact procedure but it stems from the initial use of the item you can tick off a box on the page that pops up (always use/open this device with - blah blah blah etc). So each time you start up the comp the USB controller sees the device as an audio USB SC and configures the proper driver for it through the O/S HAL interface. HAL is hardware abstraction layer ...geek speak for heart of the operating system and how it handles hardware via software drivers, anyway I'm sure I left out a billion words in that explanation....it all makes my head explode if I think too much about such things....(pooof....tiny wisp of smoke followed by a 1/4 watt flash) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As always I could be wrong and may be in this case. Hopefully someone who uses USB full time could help a little further.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *renegade732* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nevermind all that.

 Pre-amp and gain are not switched around. It's as it should be. I just looked at pictures of the the new back panel with labels and saw that I had read it improperly the first time. My unit has pre-amp labelled as Audio-GD and gain labelled as Compass so it was easy to get the two mixed up in my head._

 

Doh...slaps head......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ive hit the 97 hour mark of burn in. I honestly havent heard much change since the 48 hour mark. I think at the most it continued its tapered progression of refinement of the lower end to a nice balanced point. The trebles continued their increased presence to the current balanced state. All of this is, as stated before, with the Soft 2 setting (so as to burn all parts of the Compass). Im really quite curious what Neutral or Bright would sound like since its current state sounds neutral and balanced to me. Unless the Compass plateaus its burn in for a while and then starts another sharp burst of change down the road, I believe I may have hit the burned in state.

 If this is the case, I am thinking that some modification is in order, I really want to play with the different HDAMs and jumper settings. The soundstage has slightly increased since its first day but nothing significant as far as I have been able to decipher, which is why I want to hear the soundstage of the Moon =O

 If any of the original 18 have any insight into this possible burn in plateau that indicate that I shouldnt modify yet, please let me know =D_

 


 Give it time is my advice...you are well short of min time needed (400 hours ). Even if your unit had 100 hours (plus current 97) at Audio-gd that's still 203 hrs short of fully burned in ( HDAM and Compass ). 

 You have to have patience with Audio-gd gear. Just keep listening for now and resist the urge to monkey with the settings until it's time to do so.


 Peete.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree, having multiple devices connected to the same USB hub all sharing resources may not be ideal, neither is having a dac hooked up through an external usb hub. If you need to use more USB devices than just a dac, you could connect them to other ports (eSATA or firewire for external hard drives, or even put them in a NAS), or possibly install a second USB card to connect extra usb devices._

 

My experiment with an external ac powered usb hub was a dud, the latency was horrible for audio, keyboards, digital tablet,etc.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It certainly seems like you've tried everything I would have tried. Maybe some further digging at the HP support site may uncover a user initiated solution as a last resort.

 I have no issues with any of the digital outs with my desktop in terms of "glitches" using a Asus Max Formula, 2 gig DDR 2, Quad core P4, Auzen Prelude SC (used as transport) XP Pro SP3. I'll see what I can find with your mobo....it might be a south bridge driver causing a prob or it could be third party support...who knows for sure....and it could be Vista in this case...too many variables to narrow anything down although your due diligence thus far in trying to narrow down a possible cause is noteworthy and commendable.

 Peete._

 

 Thanks for the help, had to take a break from it for a while. I am looking at possible 2d video being the problem, at this point I am half in the bag of building a desktop, been trying to hold off, don't need something else to obsess over right now.

 You happy with the Auzen SC?

 Back to the Compass... With my limited experience in this realm I am very impressed with the Compass, I have been swapping out HDAMs, and playing with the modes and really cool how dramatic the changes are in sound. I'm not too worried about the burn in at the moment, I'm going to let a good friend of mine baby sit my Compass while I'm on a trip for about a week, I figure its the least I could do since it was his idea that I check it out in the first place


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My experiment with an external ac powered usb hub was a dud, the latency was horrible for audio, keyboards, digital tablet,etc._

 

yeah, people should connect the compass directly to the onboard usb ports, and use the external ones for other things, even if it is plugged in directly to the mobo.


----------



## edselfordfong

Hey, has anyone ordered more than one Compass at a go? I asked Cherry about it, and she told me that there isn't a discount on the shipping. $54 shipping for one, $108 for two, according to the current price on their site. Does that seem right?

 EDIT: playing around with the DHL rate inquiry page linked on Audio-gd, it doesn't seem like what she's telling me is right, unless it has something to do with the deal they have negotiated with DHL.

 2nd EDIT: After careful examination of Cherry's email, I realize that she's talking about two separate shipments. So, back to the original question: has anyone been given a shipping quote for two Compass in one box? Should be lower for one 10.4 kg shipment than two 5.2 kg packages.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, has anyone ordered more than one Compass at a go? I asked Cherry about it, and she told me that there isn't a discount on the shipping. $54 shipping for one, $108 for two, according to the current price on their site. Does that seem right?_

 

Makes sense, it's a size and weight thing. A lot of Chinese companies have a custom shipping box for each product that is designed for max protection in the smallest package. So they probably don't have twofer boxes.

 .


----------



## Eric M

Anyone know why Cherry asked for my phone number after ordering one?


----------



## csroc

For a lot of shipments couriers want a phone number to contact you with in case there's some kind of problem.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, has anyone ordered more than one Compass at a go? I asked Cherry about it, and she told me that there isn't a discount on the shipping. $54 shipping for one, $108 for two, according to the current price on their site. Does that seem right?

 EDIT: playing around with the DHL rate inquiry page linked on Audio-gd, it doesn't seem like what she's telling me is right, unless it has something to do with the deal they have negotiated with DHL._

 

You probably have to scale up a bit more, so that they can get a bigger box for it, I've heard people save on shipping when they ordered 10. You're prob stuck with 2 same boxes for now.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eric M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know why Cherry asked for my phone number after ordering one?_

 

She thinks you're Hot! Also Chicks dig guys who are into DACs.

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Boomer....yeah it's a tough decision, the Auzen Prelude card is very good as a transport and darn good as gaming card (if that is your preference). I haven't had any trouble with it's native ASIO driver. Sounds almost as good as the Vanguard CDM12 Pro, almost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Makes sense, it's a size and weight thing. A lot of Chinese companies have a custom shipping box for each product that is designed for max protection in the smallest package. So they probably don't have twofer boxes._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You probably have to scale up a bit more, so that they can get a bigger box for it, I've heard people save on shipping when they ordered 10. You're prob stuck with 2 same boxes for now._

 

You guys are right. I guess I was confused because of something Kingwa had said in an email about shipping for some of the heavier gear. Cherry has already got back to me to explain that it starts to matter at 21kg.

 Since I got all grumpy about it here, I also should add that she was very nice, and offered to send both of them at $50 each, since that was the price of shipping when I made my initial order a week ago.

 Awesome. I'll have two compasses coming.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Luckily my Dad never caught me. He brought back a bunch of the Coolest stuff I had ever seen from Viet Nam!

 Never thought he was Cool at all, but in retrospect, that was pretty sharp for 1969-1970. Still Have the Sansui Receiver...._

 

Very interesting, a blast from the past for sure. Same here, my parents Sansui w/ some pretty stout Jensen speakers was the first rig I ever abused...errr, I mean enjoyed...


----------



## Chu

Well, I just bit the bullet. Bought the compass plus a Moon/Sun module to mess around with, with the ones I like least probably ending up in the "for sale" forum soon. $366 with shipping. I am incredibly curious how this is going to compare to my current PC setup (modded x-fi + meta42 amp)!


----------



## Mik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eric M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know why Cherry asked for my phone number after ordering one?_

 

They may need to provide your phone number to EMS/DHL, along with your address, for shipping.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I just bit the bullet. Bought the compass plus a Moon/Sun module to mess around with, with the ones I like least probably ending up in the "for sale" forum soon. !_

 

Welcome to the club !..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well I thought the same about the OPAs when I bought them, but somehow each one of them have their own typical sound signatures, and although I have the Earth on the Compass now, I keep reaching out for either the SUN or Moon on some particular music.. so its always handy.. IMHO.


----------



## marz.dk

Hi every one.
 This is my first post on Head-Fi, even though i have been sneak reading this fora forever, and i love it.

 I just jumped on the Compass bandwagon with Moon, Earth and Sun. It's going to connect my PC to my Headphones and to my Amp, Speaker and Sub set-up.

 I'm planning to build a AC Filter Silk 220 from the  lampizator site made by Lukasz Fikus.
 The Silk is feed by a big fat power cord, and Shielded power cords to the gear.
 The only thing missing are good quality power plugs, i haven't been able to find any good ones, can someone help out in this? I live in Denmark so like the Kingwa number 3 plug.

 Kingwa seems as a very nice chap. I asked him when mine will ship and he told me that so many have pre ordered that it is going to be beginning of April.
 And also he said that he is going to stay at the 258$ forever as i understood it.
  Quote:


 I must said thanks all customers and all input at Head Fi forum to help me improve on the Compass.
 In China, far-back book teach us : The friends give me a little water, while the friends need and I have ability, must a lot times to return.
 So I thinking delay the initial promotional price end time.
 Kingwa 
 

Thank you.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *marz.dk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And also he said that he is going to stay at the 258$ forever as i understood it._

 

No, he just said he might prolong the promotional period from the current promotional end date of May 31st. I don't think he should though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think we're the ones who should be grateful to him for making such a fine headphone dac/amp.

 Since Monday I've been switching between the hdam's and LME49860NA, and I always preferred the hdam's, but the LME49860's do sound very neutral and with good detail. But the LME49860's sound flat and 2-d and bad bass definition, which detracts quite a bit from the realism of the music.


----------



## Currawong

marz.dk: Welcome. What you've passed on is very cool. Kingwa's enthusiasm for audio and sharing the enjoyment of listening to music is just wonderful.

 haloxt: I tried 2x OP27E in the Compass, for fun, since my local electronics store had them. The result was absolutely beautiful mids. Not as clear as any of the HDAMs though.


----------



## PPkiller

deleted


----------



## PPkiller

any impression of ad797brz on compass compared to other hdams?


----------



## direcow

The compass is headed to a small headphone meet of about 20++ people in Singapore. Going to leave it running in overnight before I bring it down. 

 Have about 100 (+100 at kingwa) hours on it already, not much time for much more, let's see how it performs! Some other DACs will be there...

 the zero, the DAC Magic, Lite DAC-Ah and the DIY Y1 DAC.

 Hopefully I'll get some impressions from it


----------



## PPkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The compass is headed to a small headphone meet of about 20++ people in Singapore. Going to leave it running in overnight before I bring it down. 

 Have about 100 (+100 at kingwa) hours on it already, not much time for much more, let's see how it performs! Some other DACs will be there...

 the zero, the DAC Magic, Lite DAC-Ah and the DIY Y1 DAC.

 Hopefully I'll get some impressions from it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 cheers.. which hdam are you using for the meet?


----------



## D.C.

Wow, Peete 400+ hours burning time for the Compass its amazing. 

 Halo do you think the LME49860NA will open up a bit after some burn in...like become more 3D.

 I got my HD650 they were kept for a week at UK customs and they charged me £40 (greedy b££££££s...lol) it could have been more but its all good I went to peek it up myself. 
 I am using Burninwave Generator to burn them in...thanks somebody here recommended it.


----------



## D.C.

double post sorry


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PPkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_cheers.. which hdam are you using for the meet?_

 

Earth, that's the only one I had time to burn in for. I'll bring the Sun along tho.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Halo do you think the LME49860NA will open up a bit after some burn in...like become more 3D._

 

I have only about 50 hours on the LME49860's, unless someone thinks the opamp will change further than that I don't really want to burn it in anymore to see.


----------



## AustinIsWierd

Got my Compass. I've got two issues. Not sure if they are bad enough to warrant sending back... Opinions:

 1) The Power Switch seems to be broken. Doesn't go in or out without pushing/pulling. "On" seems to be in the out position. Not sure if the spring is dislodged. Might take off the rectifier board to see.
 2) Bottom left corner of front panel is dented a little. Almost like it was dropped on the corner and the power switch was damaged?
 3) Really lame but the silkscreen on "Super" is bad. The 'e' is missing some white paint.

 What would you do?

 Dale


----------



## ScottieB

Dale, I'd contact kingwa and see what he says. Might be easy enough to fix, but it'd be worth getting his opinion. He is always happy to help. My lettering is faded in some spots, too, particularly the "coax" letters, and the 'd' in audio gd. But that dosn't bother me... if there was something wrong with the power button though I'd certainly want that fixed!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AustinIsWierd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my Compass. I've got two issues. Not sure if they are bad enough to warrant sending back... Opinions:

 1) The Power Switch seems to be broken. Doesn't go in or out without pushing/pulling. "On" seems to be in the out position. Not sure if the spring is dislodged. Might take off the rectifier board to see.
 2) Bottom left corner of front panel is dented a little. Almost like it was dropped on the corner and the power switch was damaged?
 3) Really lame but the silkscreen on "Super" is bad. The 'e' is missing some white paint.

 What would you do?

 Dale_

 


 Sounds like shipping damage to me. Talk to Kingwa, he'll look after you as Scottie suggests.

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like shipping damage to me. Talk to Kingwa, he'll look after you as Scottie suggests.

 Peete._

 

Sounds like customs or the courier pulled it out of the box and dropped it.


----------



## AustinIsWierd

Uggggghhh, it gets worse. Just plugged in my headphones and one channel does not work. Does look like customs opened the box and dropped the unit. What happens in this case?

 Thanks

 Dale


----------



## mbd2884

I guess third time is the charm.

 Contact Kingwa and see what he says to solve your problem.


----------



## AustinIsWierd

I emailed Kingwa and he was VERY gracious. Offered to help me fix. If this fails, then said that I could ship back at his expense and get the unit fixed and shipped back. 
 I really hope that I can fix it without sending back. I would hate to have Kingwa be out USD$100. I am an engineer, but I have no schematics to follow... Hopefully, it is an obvious loose or broken wire...

 I'll see if the line-out and pre-amp outs are working to see if the issue is only in the headphone output or jack...

 Dale


----------



## dBs

Kingwa has a circuit diagram up on the Compass web page toward the bottom. The PCB layout is not shown but Im sure the process of him helping to fix it with you might let you use it. Since your an engineer, at least you will have the things necessary to fix it. That certainly helps.


----------



## AustinIsWierd

At least the DAC seems to be working. I hooked up to my Squeezebox via coax and the line-out works beautifully. Just nothing out of the headphones at all now. Yes, I know about the pre-amp and super switches 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just no sound at all. I may try pre-amp mode and see if that works as it should.


----------



## AustinIsWierd

Preamp mode works too...


----------



## dBs

I could be wrong but I believe the preamp is essentially using the amp but just going to the RCA jacks instead of the headphone jack. That narrows down the places for the problem considerably.


----------



## AustinIsWierd

Oh, by the way, I am quite pleased with the sound right out of the box. The bass seems to be much tighter than either the squeezebox internal DAC or the Oritek Zhalou. Mid a bit recessed, but nice.


----------



## AustinIsWierd

Dbs,

 Thanks for the support. Kingwa agreed with you. Perhaps, just a bad switch or wiring to the preamp switch.

 Dale


----------



## B00MERS00NER

OK I feel like a dumb *****, I didn't realize I could use a fiberoptic cable (with 3.5mm adapter) out of my onboard SPDIF. Much better than my static USB. Thanks for the help Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK I feel like a dumb *****, I didn't realize I could use a fiberoptic cable (with 3.5mm adapter) out of my onboard SPDIF. Much better than my static USB. Thanks for the help Peete._

 

Glad you were able to find a satisfactory solution. Nothing is more maddening than trying to track down noise and such (in audio gear, comp's included).

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK I feel like a dumb *****, I didn't realize I could use a fiberoptic cable (with 3.5mm adapter) out of my onboard SPDIF. Much better than my static USB. Thanks for the help Peete._

 


 Heh, that must seem like pennies from Heaven!

 .


----------



## K3cT

About 130 hours in and I notice a drastic smoothening of the treble. Is burn-in supposed to be such a roller-coaster ride?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About 130 hours in and I notice a drastic smoothening of the treble. Is burn-in supposed to be such a roller-coaster ride?_

 

Yes, its quite a ride from what i have read from Compass owners, its a pity I couldn't experience that phenomenon as I did not have a decent HP or amp for my speakers.. both just arrived a couple of days back (HD600), and since the Compass was put to burn in all this while (nearly 2 months), when I heard the other day, things seem to have really settled down very nicely since I last heard through the speakers..


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, its quite a ride from what i have read from Compass owners, its a pity I couldn't experience that phenomenon as I did not have a decent HP or amp for my speakers.. both just arrived a couple of days back (HD600), and since the Compass was put to burn in all this while (nearly 2 months), when I heard the other day, things seem to have really settled down very nicely since I last heard through the speakers..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ah, that's such a pity. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A few pages back I was complaining how forward the Compass sounded but I guess with the current state of the treble I could live with Neutral setting.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, that's such a pity. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A few pages back I was complaining how forward the Compass sounded but I guess with the current state of the treble I could live with Neutral setting._

 

Yes, the strange thing is that it keeps evolving, doesn't always mean getting better or more like what you would prefer, so you might as well hang on for a while before finally deciding which setting suits you most.. in fact if I recollect, not many of the first 18 did a thorough testing with different settings..


----------



## Currawong

The sound goes all over the place for the first 350 hours. I was burning in unused HDAMs in my Zero at the same time as the Compass was being burned in, and, for example, at 250 or so hours, the treble dropped very noticeably for a couple of days. It was a good period to give the Sun a good run while the Earth and Moon were in their dull stage. At least you wont get bored!


----------



## dBs

Im starting to wonder if Kingwa maybe burned these in a bit longer since they were shipped out a day or two later than 220V versions, because I havent noticed any significant changes to the sound of mine in the last 2-3 days. I have only the very, absolute tiniest inkling that the bass was more pronounced today than it was yesterday. Otherwise, it sounds the same as far as I can tell. Thats not a bad thing mind you, it sounds very, very good. Im just wondering why my experience so far hasnt been very equatable to those before me. I certainly havent gotten the "all over the place" sound that was described. In the beginning it went from very strong bass with diminutive highs to well balanced with only slight bass emphasis and now, if you count the tiny inkling, well balanced with a slight bit more bass emphasis.

 So, Im starting to wonder if, because of that delay in shipping, maybe they were burned extra time over those day/s which would put me ahead. I dunno.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im starting to wonder if Kingwa maybe burned these in a bit longer since they were shipped out a day or two later than 220V versions, because I havent noticed any significant changes to the sound of mine in the last 2-3 days. I have only the very, absolute tiniest inkling that the bass was more pronounced today than it was yesterday. Otherwise, it sounds the same as far as I can tell. Thats not a bad thing mind you, it sounds very, very good. Im just wondering why my experience so far hasnt been very equatable to those before me. I certainly havent gotten the "all over the place" sound that was described. In the beginning it went from very strong bass with diminutive highs to well balanced with only slight bass emphasis and now, if you count the tiny inkling, well balanced with a slight bit more bass emphasis._

 

I don't know, I think experiences will vary quite a bit with different people. Personally, I didn't really notice any 'huge swings' either when burning in the Earth (which hadn't seen any burn-in in my case). There were significant changes mainly in the first 50 hours, after that things started to level off. Changes kept occurring until about 250 hours (as far as my memory of them can be trusted), but not comparable to the first 50 hours.
 I think the extent to which you notice all these changes will have a lot to do with how sensitive you are to changes in the frequency response.


----------



## K3cT

I just switched to OPA Earth just for the kick of it and the different is pretty apparent especially in piano and cymbal. The Earth's highs are not as rolled off compared to Moon and as the result, delivers a clearer presentation. The Moon still has the superior soundstage though. Mids are slightly more forward in the Earth but not as expansive as the Moon.

 I rather like it with my Denon. The Earth's mids presentation seems to suit the Denon well.


----------



## Currawong

Just for fun, I played with OPAMPs today in the Compass. Here's what I heard, using it just as a DAC for my Stax rig:

 LME49710NA: Amazingly sounds just like the Earth. Very bright though, but not annoyingly so. I wondered at first if they had been designed to sound bright to sound high quality, but switching to the Earth shows this isn't the case. Some A/B'ing shows them to be slightly less detailed and resolving compared to the Earth though. 
 OPA627BP: Smooth, very lovely and smooth. A good reminder of why this is one of the most popular OPAMPS. Still a bit of detail sacrificed compared to a HDAM though.
 OP27G: Similar to the 627 but not quite as smooth or detailed. I'm not sure how much burn-in they require though, as they haven't even got an hour on them. Bit darker sounding too. Lovely mids.
 LM4562: The sound-card upgrader's favourite. Meh, nothing special here.


----------



## direcow

brought my compass out for a ride around the island of Singapore today, and off to a headphone meet.

 long story short, I feel pretty pleased with it, people were praising the looks (solid built) and also the sound quality esp irt the quality to price ratio.

 Got a hooked up comparison like so:

 CD Transport>Compass>Yamamoto>ATH-W1000
 vs
 CD Transport>Cambridge DACmagic>Yamamoto>ATH-W1000

 and the compass was preferred. Looks like we have a winner here!

 Someone didn't really like the presentation with the AKG K702, but it might be due to burn in or sound settings. He said the mids sounded weird. But still, his words:  Quote:


 compass audio is a pretty slick dac i must say and pretty good pre amp


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_brought my compass out for a ride around the island of Singapore today, and off to a headphone meet.

 long story short, I feel pretty pleased with it, people were praising the looks (solid built) and also the sound quality esp irt the quality to price ratio.

 Got a hooked up comparison like so:

 CD Transport>Compass>Yamamoto>ATH-W1000
 vs
 CD Transport>Cambridge DACmagic>Yamamoto>ATH-W1000

 and the compass was preferred. Looks like we have a winner here!

 Someone didn't really like the presentation with the AKG K702, but it might be due to burn in or sound settings. He said the mids sounded weird. But still, his words:_

 

Nice, man. I also have a gathering next week but the damn thing is so heavy! I'm a bit lazy to bring it there. Some dude is bringing an EF1 so it would be interesting to compare the Compass to it.


----------



## direcow

The EF1s really work well with Denons... I'm impressed, and it's a small little thing.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The EF1s really work well with Denons... I'm impressed, and it's a small little thing._

 

And the $1 million question... how does it compare with the Compass' amp section?


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And the $1 million question... how does it compare with the Compass' amp section?_

 

silly as it may sound... I didn't actually manage to do a comparison. Shame on me, really, but I didn't want to jump the gun when the Compass hasn't fully burnt in yet, and was on soft-2 setting.

 (oh, the compass was on Earth and soft-2 for the meet)


----------



## Chu

Maybe an unexpected bonus I didn't think of, is the pre-amp-out powerful enough to support a nice set of bookshelf speakers for a computer setup?


----------



## theBigD

This week I will be able to compare BOOMERSOONERS compass to my EF1. I plan on comparing earh, moon, sun in EF1 to same combo in Compass along iwith the stock op-275. Will probably do in Nuetral mode with Compass. It will be a bit pre-lim as the compass may only have 100+ hours by then.

 My EF1 has around 75 hours with SUN in it and SUN and amp have opened up a bit. The EF1 was a little muddy at first and SUN counteracted that. Now they are both more open, the SUN is very dynamic. I enjoy it very much. Kinda makes compressed music sound better as long as compression isnt too much, like 128kb then the highs get pretty tizzy. The mids are very present which helps the Denon sound more balanced, but still has very good punch in the low end.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe an unexpected bonus I didn't think of, is the pre-amp-out powerful enough to support a nice set of bookshelf speakers for a computer setup?_

 

"Pre-Amp" means pre amplifier, or before amplifier. If your speakers don't have an amplifier, then you need to find one.

 You are referring to an Integrated amplifier.

 The Compass is not an Integrated amplifier.

 Does that clear it up?

 .


----------



## tim3320070

Anyone tried a V-DAC as a comparison or have opinions? I really enjoy my V-DAC (I think it is an improvement over my old stock Musiland). I always like to experiment and the price is great for the Compass, so anyone have thoughts?.........


----------



## mbd2884

V-DAC is not a full sized DAC like the Compass has. There is your answer already. If you already enjoy your V-DAC then enjoy it. I really don't see the point in comparing the V-DAC, which is pretty much a portable solution to a desktop solution, unless you feel the need for an upgrade. Or is it you need reassurance that the V-DAC is still good? 

 For the original 18 who like their Compass more simplified without added new connections and what not, and just like having one of the original 18.

 But... want lower gain. Email Kingwa, he will send you two new resistors to replace two resistors near the jumpers. It's just snip and solder replacements, and you are done.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_V-DAC is not a full sized DAC like the Compass has. There is your answer already. If you already enjoy your V-DAC then enjoy it. I really don't see the point in comparing the V-DAC, which is pretty much a portable solution to a desktop solution, unless you feel the need for an upgrade. Or is it you need reassurance that the V-DAC is still good? 

 For the original 18 who like their Compass more simplified without added new connections and what not, and just like having one of the original 18.

 But... want lower gain. Email Kingwa, he will send you two new resistors to replace two resistors near the jumpers. It's just snip and solder replacements, and you are done._

 

Not sure what you mean by full size- it's a non portable DAC like the Compass except for the amp. I am looking for comparisons in sound. The V-DAC is not portable, it runs on AC power, it's just plain looking. Just looking for info.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tim3320070* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure what you mean by full size- it's a non portable DAC like the Compass except for the amp. I am looking for comparisons in sound. The V-DAC is not portable, it runs on AC power, it's just plain looking. Just looking for info._

 

Well, I just went through the VDAC specs on Musical Fidelity website, if thats what you are suggesting, to me it looks to me quite a good DAC, maybe someone who has used both the VDAC and Compass can answer..


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tim3320070* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure what you mean by full size- it's a non portable DAC like the Compass except for the amp. I am looking for comparisons in sound. The V-DAC is not portable, it runs on AC power, it's just plain looking. Just looking for info._

 

V-DAC is portable in that you can say, going on a trip, just throw in in my bag. Can't go, let me just pack up Compass/DACMagic or other full sized desktop DAC with my headphones. They are not portable, meant to stay on the desk. 

 But again, like every other requests for comparisons, there aren't many out there and fewer who have writeen reviews of the Compass. If you want to make a decision to buy the Compass, there are plenty of impressions to help. If the V-DAC is fine, then don't bother upgrading. Seems to me if you were interested in upgrading, well, you don't need a V-DAC comparison to make that decision, that's why I thought, and still do, you are looking for confirmation you made a good decision in buying the V-DAC, and if you enjoy it, then yes you made a good decision.

 Interesting tid bit, it's been found people read more reviews after they have made a purchase. Just looking for reassurance, I made good purchase, and that's what I see going on with newly registered people who also recently purchased an Amp or DAC looking for comparisons to the Compass.


----------



## dBs

Who says the Compass isnt portable XD If I went for a winter break vacation to my parents place or something, you know that the Compass is tagging along =D


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who says the Compass isnt portable XD If I went for a winter break vacation to my parents place or something, you know that the Compass is tagging along =D_

 

Sure, but if you are heading to the gym, or going to class, or heading to the library...you won't be bringing the Compass along (well maybe the library for a long session and a power receptacle). But, portable by what folks usually mean by that term is reserved for something like the Pico or Predator.


----------



## Currawong

Reminds me that I said I'd compare the Compass to my Corda Move ages ago, but haven't done that yet. Last time I tried, I found the battery had gone flat.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure, but if you are heading to the gym, or going to class, or heading to the library...you won't be bringing the Compass along (well maybe the library for a long session and a power receptacle). But, portable by what folks usually mean by that term is reserved for something like the Pico or Predator._

 

Oh I know what it means. I was more commenting, humorously, on what MBD said. I made a Mini3 last semester as a project for one of my classes. "Portable" portable, Im covered. Dont worry, I know how the definitional lines are drawn


----------



## tim3320070

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_V-DAC is portable in that you can say, going on a trip, just throw in in my bag. Can't go, let me just pack up Compass/DACMagic or other full sized desktop DAC with my headphones. They are not portable, meant to stay on the desk. 

 But again, like every other requests for comparisons, there aren't many out there and fewer who have writeen reviews of the Compass. If you want to make a decision to buy the Compass, there are plenty of impressions to help. If the V-DAC is fine, then don't bother upgrading. Seems to me if you were interested in upgrading, well, you don't need a V-DAC comparison to make that decision, that's why I thought, and still do, you are looking for confirmation you made a good decision in buying the V-DAC, and if you enjoy it, then yes you made a good decision.

 Interesting tid bit, it's been found people read more reviews after they have made a purchase. Just looking for reassurance, I made good purchase, and that's what I see going on with newly registered people who also recently purchased an Amp or DAC looking for comparisons to the Compass._

 

Lots of assumptions going on by you about me- you like figuring people out don't you? 
 I am just looking for info for crying out loud. I need a head amp and the price of this along with the positive feedback has me curious as to how it compares to the sound of the V-DAC since it might be replacing it as my DAC.
 So.....again, any information?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tim3320070* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lots of assumptions going on by you about me- you like figuring people out don't you? 
 I am just looking for info for crying out loud. I need a head amp and the price of this along with the positive feedback has me curious as to how it compares to the sound of the V-DAC since it might be replacing it as my DAC.
 So.....again, any information?_

 

He pretty much thinks he has the right to determine whether your question is valid or not. Then he determines how belittling and condescending his response will be.

 Then he goes back to his Hot Pot!

 .


----------



## doping panda

Well, there aren't many impressions so I don't know how it would compare to your V-DAC. If you only need an amp though, you might spend the extra money and get the Audio-gd C-2C instead since Curra has said the C-2C is a step above the Compass amp.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, there aren't many impressions so I don't know how it would compare to your V-DAC. If you only need an amp though, you might spend the extra money and get the Audio-gd C-2C instead since Curra has said the C-2C is a step above the Compass amp._

 

I was going to do that then started wondering if the DAC in the Compass could be better than the V-DAC and I would have both a good amp and a DAC for the same cost (about) as the V-DAC, whereas the C-2C alone is $400.
 This damn bug..............


----------



## haloxt

mbd has a valid point though, we haven't compared the Compass and the V-dac so our guess is just a guess. If we infer from the information from comparisons to date then it'd quite rational when mbd says the dac section of the compass is probably an upgrade over the V-dac. But since the people with compasses haven't compared it to a V-dac and we all have different levels of understanding of how V-dac stacks up to other dacs, perhaps the most qualified person to answer tim3320070's question is himself, or at least it is his responsibility to research how the V-dac stacks up and utilizing the data we have on how the compass stacks up to some dacs to draw his own conclusion.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mbd has a valid point though, we haven't compared the Compass and the V-dac so our guess is just a guess. If we infer from the information from comparisons to date then it'd quite rational when mbd says the dac section of the compass is probably an upgrade over the V-dac. But since the people with compasses haven't compared it to a V-dac and we all have different levels of understanding of how V-dac stacks up to other dacs, perhaps the most qualified person to answer tim3320070's question is himself, or at least it is his responsibility to research how the V-dac stacks up and utilizing the data we have on how the compass stacks up to some dacs to draw his own conclusion._

 

You're right. I was hoping one of the few Compass owners had a V-DAC or had a friend with one to compare. But, I went ahead and bought one just now (along with an S1 integrated) so I'll do it myself! It's only money, right?
 I'll post my impressions after arrival and some burn-in applied- it's looking like early April at best before receipt.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tim3320070* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're right. I was hoping one of the few Compass owners had a V-DAC or had a friend with one to compare. But, I went ahead and bought one just now (along with an S1 integrated) so I'll do it myself! It's only money, right?
 I'll post my impressions after arrival and some burn-in applied- it's looking like early April at best before receipt._

 

Hey,
 Can't go wrong at that price! Let us know how you rank them. 

 .


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PPkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any impression of ad797brz on compass compared to other hdams?_

 

I'll do a comparison once my Compass and Earth reach the magic 400. Currently at 144+/- plus the 100 they shipped with. My 797's have 1000's on them. I haven't burned my Moon or Sun at all yet, so they won't be valid for comparisons any time soon.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Got almost 100hrs on the sun in neutral mode and it seems the treble has backed off a bit and that everything isn't quite as forward as it was, seems to be more balanced. Still dynamic and I cranked the gain down and at the moment I prefer the gain on high. Listening to Patricia Barber and the strings of the bass have that full thwump. The guitar and the piano don't seem as bright as they were. Her voice has that full, smokey, smooth quality, I prefer it over where the earth is at this point. The finger snaps have a sharp crack, and really nice how you can hear the distinct echo in the background. I don't know if my vocabulary helps anyone with impression or not. Especially taking in consideration changes coming with more burn-in.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got almost 100hrs on the sun in neutral mode and it seems the treble has backed off a bit and that everything isn't quite as forward as it was, seems to be more balanced. Still dynamic and I cranked the gain down and at the moment I prefer the gain on high. Listening to Patricia Barber and the strings of the bass have that full thwump. The guitar and the piano don't seem as bright as they were. Her voice has that full, smokey, smooth quality, I prefer it over where the earth is at this point. The finger snaps have a sharp crack, and really nice how you can hear the distinct echo in the background. I don't know if my vocabulary helps anyone with impression or not. Especially taking in consideration changes coming with more burn-in._

 

Nice little write up 100 hours impression, Boomer !

 your vocab is fantastic, in fact I'll pick up a few words from it if you dont mind..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Since I missed out on the entire phenomenon of burning, I clearly notice that I can follow the bass lines far more easily that I could in the first 100 hours, now its already been past 400 hours on my Earth and Neutral mode..

  Quote:


 You're right. I was hoping one of the few Compass owners had a V-DAC or had a friend with one to compare. But, I went ahead and bought one just now (along with an S1 integrated) so I'll do it myself! It's only money, right? 
 

Well that pretty much sums up the intentions of your questions.. glad you went ahead and like Les says, you cant go with wrong at the price.. hope to hear your impressions soon..


----------



## Thundernuts

Ok, i've got my reddies and am about to order.

 Are there any upgrades that are recommended?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Wow I just checked the track no Cherry gave me today and the RE1 and C-2C are already into and out of customs on the way to the local hub for delivery tomorrow (I think). If that is so ...this will be a record for fast delivery. Picked up on the 21st (Hong Kong) and at my door on the 23rd.......incredible. 


 Peete.


----------



## kodreaming

Just ordered, but I noticed that I can't hook my "cheap" cd player with it because mine doesn't have a digital out... If I use RCA, then I can't switch source... 

 Anyway, that's minor issue. Looking forward to receive it.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow I just checked the track no Cherry gave me today and the RE1 and C-2C are already into and out of customs on the way to the local hub for delivery tomorrow (I think). If that is so ...this will be a record for fast delivery. Picked up on the 21st (Hong Kong) and at my door on the 23rd.......incredible._

 

Wow, your name isn't even on the Audio-gd 'shipment list' yet! Congrats!

 So, will you be starting the Reference One-thread now?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, i've got my reddies and am about to order.

 Are there any upgrades that are recommended?_

 

Well, you could check out on the other OPAs if you want to play around and see what suits you most, Moon and Sun since Earth comes as a default..

 Coax cable, I found it handy and I think its not included as one of the stock cables - think optical, usb and power cable is included..

 Custom power cable.. hmm, well it depends, some find it makes some difference, some dont.. It did to me..

 One more thing if I recollect well, Kingwa said if you like to have the preamp or gain switch on the front, its possible, just that it would take another week to process the order, but then I think the Super sign will remain on the face plate..

 Nothing else comes to my mind now.. Oh yes, dont forget to mention the voltage and your telephone number.. and Also, Choose the power cord applicable for your area..

 Enjoy !..


----------



## dBs

Page 300!

 If I get the impression tomorrow by 4pm that theres been no significant audio changes to my Compasses sound, then I will officially start playing around with it >=D


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Dro......yeah at some point in the near future I'll start a thread for it. I plan on giving it a thorough review and may lead off the thread with that review. In any event the unit (both pieces) will need mega hours on them before I can even begin the evaluation segment.

 I need to email Kingwa and ask him how much burn in each received so I know where I'm at when they arrive.

 Isn't the shipment list just for the Compass Dro ? I could be wrong about that of course.

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow I just checked the track no Cherry gave me today and the RE1 and C-2C are already into and out of customs on the way to the local hub for delivery tomorrow (I think). If that is so ...this will be a record for fast delivery. Picked up on the 21st (Hong Kong) and at my door on the 23rd.......incredible. 


 Peete._

 

Congratulations Peete, I think you deserve it after the Compass shipping experience..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 , well I guess one more for in your review list and it keeps getting bigger..
 Btw, that list on Kingwa's website is generally meant for all shipping - although some are not mentioned sometimes..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Page 300!

 If I get the impression tomorrow by 4pm that theres been no significant audio changes to my Compasses sound, then I will officially start playing around with it >=D_

 

Where are you at right now with burn in hours on your Compass and HDAM(s) (roughly speaking) ? 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congratulations Peete, I think you deserve it after the Compass shipping experience..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , well I guess one more for in your review list and it keeps getting bigger..
 Btw, that list on Kingwa's website is generally meant for all shipping - although some are not mentioned sometimes..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Sandchak ! 

 Peete.

 EDIT: Looks like the DHL page was jerking me around a bit...it now says just arrived at the Toronto sort facility. Still I think that means no later than Tuesday for a delivery barring any Customs tom foolery.Keep your fingers crossed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT II : At the Marham facility (15 Klms away).....I bet they arrive today ! Excellent (using best Monty Burns impersonation)


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Coax cable, I found it handy and I think its not included as one of the stock cables - think optical, usb and power cable is included.._

 

Actually, a digital coax is included, but it's very basic. If you forsee using it often, it would be better to get one of those nice Canare cables they are selling for a discount with the Compass.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need to email Kingwa and ask him how much burn in each received so I know where I'm at when they arrive._

 

As far as I know, he puts 200 hours on something like the Reference One before shipping.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are you at right now (roughly speaking) ? 

 Peete._

 

Tomorrow at 4pm will mark the 7th day of 24 hour burn in, so 168 hours. This is not accounting for the hours by Kingwa (which I suspect might be more than his usual 100 as he didnt ship out the 110v units for a day or two after the 220v units were sent). I havent heard any significant auditory changes in the last 3-4 days using the Earth and Soft 2.

 Sounds wonderful though, must include that


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, a digital coax is included, but it's very basic. If you forsee using it often, it would be better to get one of those nice Canare cables they are selling for a discount with the Compass._

 

Sorry, made a mistake - thanks for the correction dro..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, a digital coax is included, but it's very basic. If you forsee using it often, it would be better to get one of those nice Canare cables they are selling for a discount with the Compass.

 The Canare COAX is worth the money. It's just as good as my Better Cables Silver Serpent which cost 4X what the Canare did...DOH ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As far as I know, he puts 200 hours on something like the Reference One before shipping._

 

Yep that's what he just told me. He put 300 hours on my C-2C which was ready to ship 2 weeks ago. I asked Kingwa to hold onto it until the RE1 was ready to go.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tomorrow at 4pm will mark the 7th day of 24 hour burn in, so 168 hours. This is not accounting for the hours by Kingwa (which I suspect might be more than his usual 100 as he didnt ship out the 110v units for a day or two after the 220v units were sent). I havent heard any significant auditory changes in the last 3-4 days using the Earth and Soft 2.

 Sounds wonderful though, must include that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Your right at the point where the next 65 hrs marks a turning point in the HDAM's evolution but roughly half way in terms of the Compass beginning to show it's true voice (which then continues refinements all the way up to 750 hours).

 It's possible the soft settings are masking a lot of what is happening right now. I know that HDAM modules tend to lose treble around the 275 hour mark only to have it come back slowly from 325-350 hours. That still leaves many hours needed before the Compass begins to give you it's all (from 550-750 is the last block of change for the Compass which I will explain better in the Part III conclusion).

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, your name isn't even on the Audio-gd 'shipment list' yet! Congrats!

 So, will you be starting the Reference One-thread now? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well its seems the shipping web page just got updated.. seems like both Peete's and Amos (sounds familiar.... no prizes for guessing who that might be) Ref One and C2C was shipped the same day..hmm so who would be the first?? !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , actually another Ref One shipped to the US the same day.. could that be Les ??... whatever.. we are in for exciting times I guess..

 EDIT - Off Topic - talking about portable stuffs, heres my portable amp arrived a couple of days back.. sorry for the pic quality, taken by my mobile phone...


----------



## insyte

Can't wait for you guys to get your Reference 1 dacs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Im getting excited for your upcoming reviews


----------



## Pricklely Peete

What model unit is that under the Compass Sandchak ?

 Looks terrific to me and bloody heavy.......(like my Odyssey SS power amps kind of heavy ).

 Double thumbs up on the pair !!!

 Peete.


----------



## legend24

I heard about the preamp out upgrade option, whats the difference?


----------



## tj2220

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well its seems the shipping web page just got updated.. seems like both Peete's and Amos (sounds familiar.... no prizes for guessing who that might be) Ref One and C2C was shipped the same day..hmm so who would be the first?? !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , actually another Ref One shipped to the US the same day.. could that be Les ??... whatever.. we are in for exciting times I guess..

 EDIT - Off Topic - talking about portable stuffs, heres my portable amp arrived a couple of days back.. sorry for the pic quality, taken by my mobile phone..._

 

Where is this 'shipping page' or 'shipping list' you speak of?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What model unit is that under the Compass Sandchak ?

 Looks terrific to me and bloody heavy.......(like my Odyssey SS power amps kind of heavy ).

 Double thumbs up on the pair !!!

 Peete._

 

Hmm, difficult to say the model Peete, because theres some mods which Kingwa was gracious enough to carry out to suit my personal tastes, although its based on the CIA 400 platform.. I was very keen to get the balanced integrated amp the FBI series, but ran short of funds as I also wanted to include a DAC, which should be arriving soon !

 As for the looks and weight, I must say this is the best piece of craftsmanship I have ever seen both interiors and exteriors ( I have seen quite a lot in the last 10 years in pursuit of my hobby..) and I hope Kingwa never changes his philosophy when it comes to building audio gears, its a pity that the pictures don't do any justice to it, it weighs a massive 33 Kg net and the chassis itself is around 16 kgs, also what you cant see from the picture is the depth is nearly twice as much as Compass.. well its on burn in now and I am waiting for my DAC and 802s before I go full CAST !! MAN this is amazing stuff, I have never heard my CDM1 and Kappa 200s dance to an amp, the way it does now.. to put it shortly I was trembling with happiness the first time I heard it and I know it has a long way to go before it starts to shine.. sorry guys I know this is purely off topic, but ts hard to hold back the excitement..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


 Where is this 'shipping page' or 'shipping list' you speak of? 
 

Here:

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


  Quote:


 I heard about the preamp out upgrade option, whats the difference? 
 

The newer versions of Compass comes with the preamp out as default.. with this feature you can attach active speakers (with built in amp) or to a power amp and then to passive speakers (without built in amp)..


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The newer versions of Compass already come with the preamp out as default.._

 

Maybe he meant the super/pre-amp function swap.

 @ legend24, it isn't an upgrade, just a small change in design. After the mod you use the super button on the front to switch on/off the pre-amp. Handy if you use the pre-amp a lot and don't want to reach for the switch on the back everytime.

 Downside of this is, according to Kingwa it will require an extra week of work for the compass.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yepyep_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm assuming he meant the super/pre-amp function swap.

 @ legend24, it isn't an upgrade, just a small change in design. After the mod you use the super button on the front to switch on/off the pre-amp. Handy if you use the pre-amp a lot and don't want to reach for the switch on the back everytime.

 Downside of this is, according to Kingwa it will require an extra week of work for the compass._

 

Thanks yepyep..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I guess he now has both the answers to choose from..


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks yepyep..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess he now has both the answers to choose from.._

 

Yup, can't hurt to have both answers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Compass seems to sell quite well. Not at all surprised at this price.

 Ordered mine with moon & sun sometime ago. Can't wait to test the differences with the HDAM's.


----------



## ExtraNice

Hey ya kids!
 I can't seem to find it on the Compass website but... do I need to pay a surcharge for using their paypal account? I'm new to all this paypal crap and I'm getting an account just to purchase the Compass. 

 Also if I only got one OPA, which one should I get? I listen to wide range of music and I know they've been reviewed before, but i'll get to get some first-hand replies. I would like an OPA which compliments my AD-900 nicely. 

 Also since I need to put in my address in the Paypal set up... do I have to give Audio-Gd my address, or will they automatically find out from my Paypal account?

 Thanks bros!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yepyep_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup, can't hurt to have both answers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Compass seems to sell quite well. Not at all surprised at this price.

 Ordered mine with moon & sun sometime ago. Can't wait to test the differences with the HDAM's._

 

Aha.. btw good to know you pulled the trigger too.. I can assure like many out here that its going be a very interesting journey !.. hopefully you will get your Compass soon and share your views with us ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Also if I only got one OPA, which one should I get? I listen to wide range of music and I know they've been reviewed before, but i'll get to get some first-hand replies. I would like an OPA which compliments my AD-900 nicely. 
 

If I have a say, I would go for Earth.. In my experience it goes well with every type of music.. btw, that comes as default OPA with Compass.. Never heard AD-900 though.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you dont need to give your PayPal address to Audio GD, you just make a payment to his (Audio GD) PayPal address.. he will know your address automatically when he receives the payment. And You are not charged for making a payment, But Audio GD will charge you 4% extra as he will be deducted that amount when he receives your money from PayPal..


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<snip> you dont need to give your PayPal address to Audio GD, you just make a payment to his (Audio GD) PayPal address.. he will know your address automatically when he receives the payment. And You are not charged for making a payment, But Audio GD will charge you 4% extra as he will be deducted that amount when he receives your money from PayPal.._

 

May I add, they need your phonenumber too so send that to them after the payment. Also, like someone mentioned a few posts ago, they need to know what type of powercable you use ( http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/EARpic/Cable.jpg ) and which voltage version of the Compass you need ( 120V or 220V ).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so it's already included in the $258 dollars, or is this handling fee another fee I pay on top of the $258 + shipping fees?_

 

The 4% comes from the total price, including shipping cost.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yepyep_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edit: sandchak was faster._

 

Sorry Yep ! I am outta this place now.. loads of work to complete..


----------



## ExtraNice

so it's already included in the $258 dollars, or is this handling fee another fee I pay on top of the $258 + shipping fees? 

 @Sand: Thanks for the info!


----------



## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so it's already included in the $258 dollars, or is this handling fee another fee I pay on top of the $258 + shipping fees? 

 @Sand: Thanks for the info!_

 

You pay (Item Cost + Shipping Cost) * 1.04. Your total price is probably ($258 + $54) * 1.04 = $324.48, which includes a $12.48 paypal handling fee.


----------



## Drosera

.


----------



## ExtraNice

oh boy... that hurts.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh boy... that hurts._

 

The question is, what will hurt more? Buying it or not buying it?


----------



## ExtraNice

This place is bad, bad business. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I emailed Cherry and to my surprise she emailed back just now (it's past 9pm in China already!!!). She said it's good if I emailed her my address and phone number when I ordered.


----------



## Currawong

My C2C, Ref 1, power cables and bits have now been sitting in Osaka for a day.


----------



## sandchak

deleted.. not relevant


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My C2C, Ref 1, power cables and bits have now been sitting in Osaka for a day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

How long is it going to take for you to get it?


----------



## legend24

hey thanks guys for your help
 I am really tempted to get this amp/dac to paired up with a D5000 
 still saving on a tube amp
 Hope the synergy is great


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long is it going to take for you to get it?_

 

I hope tomorrow or Wednesday. When I had stuff shipped EMS, the tracking updates were a day behind at least. However, the DHL updates seem to include the time that events happen, so I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope tomorrow or Wednesday. When I had stuff shipped EMS, the tracking updates were a day behind at least. However, the DHL updates seem to include the time that events happen, so I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens._

 

Yup the time is indicated. When my package arrived in the local DHL office, I got a call one hour after and it was delivered after another 2 hours to my home.


----------



## sarathcpt

OK!...joining the club. After few weeks of lurking around in this forum, I made the order yesterday. This is going to be my first major DAC/AMP with my Denon D2000. I ordered the whole package..Compass + Sun + Moon + Custom Power cable (USD 428.48 including shipping + 4% paypal). Liked the idea of playing around with different combinations for some variety. Just hoping this is a good starting point for me into this hobby


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *legend24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey thanks guys for your help
 I am really tempted to get this amp/dac to paired up with a D5000 
 still saving on a tube amp
 Hope the synergy is great
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I had high expectations going into this experience and after pairing the compass with my D5000, well my expectations have been exceeded. The synergy with this pairing works really well. I am enjoying rediscovering music again. I've also discovered that quite a few of my favorite recordings are very poor quality, if there is a flaw in it - it will stand out. IMHO

 Just do it already, you know you want to - all the cool kids are doing it.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My C2C, Ref 1, power cables and bits have now been sitting in Osaka for a day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Good thing it wasn't shipped 2 day Air via Federal Express ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice little write up 100 hours impression, Boomer !

 your vocab is fantastic, in fact I'll pick up a few words from it if you dont mind..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Since I missed out on the entire phenomenon of burning, I clearly notice that I can follow the bass lines far more easily that I could in the first 100 hours, now its already been past 400 hours on my Earth and Neutral mode..



 Well that pretty much sums up the intentions of your questions.. glad you went ahead and like Les says, you cant go with wrong at the price.. hope to hear your impressions soon..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

thanks sandchak, you know - originally I had doubts about the burn-in, however I don't have to understand or be able to explain it to anyone to hear that there is a difference with burning. People can call me crazy - doesn't matter anyway, I have legal papers that state that anway


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It only gets better Boomer....better Boomer ?...uh... Betty Boomer (good pRon name 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). 

 Can you tell I need sleep (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) but dare not to in case I miss the DHL truck ? Nah....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had high expectations going into this experience and after pairing the compass with my D5000, well my expectations have been exceeded. The synergy with this pairing works really well. I am enjoying rediscovering music again. I've also discovered that quite a few of my favorite recordings are very poor quality, if there is a flaw in it - it will stand out. IMHO

 Just do it already, you know you want to - all the cool kids are doing it._

 

That is the down side isn't it!

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks sandchak, you know - originally I had doubts about the burn-in, however I don't have to understand or be able to explain it to anyone to hear that there is a difference with burning. People can call me crazy - doesn't matter anyway, I have legal papers that state that anway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Always good to have legal papers that help explain some of your decisions! I need to get some of those!

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Les has your RE1 shipped yet and how are you liking the 2.1 JBL setup now that you've had it for a over a week ?

 Sarathcpt : You'll be hard pressed to find *anything* better for that kind of money. You've made a wise decision on your first amp/dac in this crazy audio hobby !

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Les has your RE1 shipped yet and how are you liking the 2.1 JBL setup now that you've had it for a over a week ?

 Sarathcpt : You'll be hard pressed to find *anything* better for that kind of money. You've made a wise decision on your first amp/dac in this crazy audio hobby !

 Peete._

 

Hang on a minute, I'm defending your honor in the glowing tube thread...

 Ok, Ok, there, done! Some people's Children!

 I'm having trouble typing at preset. My fingers are all mangled and bloody.

 That's because of all the nail biting I'm going through waiting for my Compass and REF1! Sold all my gear but the Zero and the DV, and the Zero is waiting for my desoldering iron, so I'm not using it. I've had to listen to a Sound Card!!! I've got too much RFI/EMI in my cable runs to listen to the DV.

 Nice of you to pipe in and point out I'm not on the LIST!!! I had already noticed that!

 Ahhh but there is Good News! The JBL monitors running off pure digital signal are a revelation. They really show the colorations of the headphones we listen to. It's tons of fun playing with the Computer control also. One of the Best purchases I've ever made, thanx for helping me with them!

 Now I've got to get back to my computer. I have the Audi-gd Consignment page on a 10 sec refresh and i don't want to miss anything! 


 .


----------



## Drosera

So now the countdown starts: Will Les get his Ref One before he reaches the lofty heights of Supremus status? PM me with your bets.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So now the countdown starts: Will Les get his Ref One before he reaches the lofty heights of Supremus status? PM me with your bets._

 

YGPM..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hang on a minute, I'm defending your honor in the glowing tube thread...

 Ok, Ok, there, done! Some people's Children!

 I'm having trouble typing at preset. My fingers are all mangled and bloody.

 That's because of all the nail biting I'm going through waiting for my Compass and REF1! Sold all my gear but the Zero and the DV, and the Zero is waiting for my desoldering iron, so I'm not using it. I've had to listen to a Sound Card!!! I've got too much RFI/EMI in my cable runs to listen to the DV.

 Nice of you to pipe in and point out I'm not on the LIST!!! I had already noticed that!

 Ahhh but there is Good News! The JBL monitors running off pure digital signal are a revelation. They really show the colorations of the headphones we listen to. It's tons of fun playing with the Computer control also. One of the Best purchases I've ever made, thanx for helping me with them!

 Now I've got to get back to my computer. I have the Audi-gd Consignment page on a 10 sec refresh and i don't want to miss anything! 


 ._

 

LOL (of all the pics in that thread I get the only critic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)...I don't see anything offensive in my query in this thread, although I didn't mean to rub in the SC straight to the 337SE SQ issue. I thought you still had the Zero going ....on the bright side it will give you the impetus to finish the Frankie mod (always a silver lining ! ). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad you are enjoying the JBL's but remember this, even studio monitors have a house sound coloration (JBL, Harbeth, BBC monitors all have there own unique voicing). 

 I don't want to make things worse but the RE1 and the C2C just showed up here. Damn is that DAC heavy....everything made it without a scratch or a dent, thank god. I'm going to go take a pile of pics now (inside and outside of both ) BBL with some pics and stuff.

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I don't want to make things worse but the RE1 and the C2C just showed up here. Damn is that DAC heavy....everything made it without a scratch or a dent, thank god. I'm going to go take a pile of pics now (inside and outside of both ) BBL with some pics and stuff.

 Peete._

 

WOW! I was just about to call it a day.. I am not moving anywhere now...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Where the heck should I post some of the pics ? Dedicated source thread I suppose ?

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where the heck should I post some of the pics ? Dedicated source thread I suppose ?

 Peete._

 

Definitely, in the Sources forum. Let's not tease these (prospective) Compass owners any longer.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Ok there up (some of them)...forgive the photography mistakes......the lighting is bad today and I had to rush these before the kid gets home from school.

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

wheres the new thread??.. I can find it Peete...

 EDIT --- OK Just found it .. Thanks Peete.. Great Pictures !!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So now the countdown starts: Will Les get his Ref One before he reaches the lofty heights of Supremus status? PM me with your bets._

 

Hello,
 That's a pet peeve of mine. My opinion follows, and you know I have one!

 I am on a forum that is a Vintage Leather jacket forum oriented around WWII Flight Jackets. Their DB would crash and they would lose all the posts about every 8 months or so. Tragedy really, good content gone. They had a very Granular ranking system, like from FNG to New Recruit to Ace to Flyboy to whatever.

 When the new boards were rebuilt after the crash each time, there was this flurry of ridiculous me too crap postings so the guys could get their rankings back. And people crying about having to start over with their rankings,and wanted to know if they could be restored to their previous ranking.

 So after like the third iteration of this nonsense from DB crashes, I suggested to the owners of the board that everyone would be better off if they abolished the ranking system. I made my case to the forum that indeed the forum would see a lot less traffic, and that a lot of the postings were junk postings and the forum would be more reliable without them. 

 We had a vote.

 There was belly-aching like you wouldn't believe, asinine juvenile crap about some stupid rating on an Internet forum for God's sake. A lot of Grown, educated, professional people and Joe 6-Packs, not pretty those discussions.

 Well, it was done. Ranking system was abolished. The posts went down to like 8% of what they had been. And when you received an email about a thread update, it meant something, there was real content there.

 Recently there was a dust up here that I will use to illustrate my point. The person, MBD was OBVIOUSLY working his post count. He said he was! He got in an arguement, and everytime the other person replied, his replay was go ahead, my post count just keeps going up, and he egged the other guy on. Disgusting! Indeed when he hit 1500, he mentioned it in his 1500th post and stopped posting for longer than I have ever seen him leave us alone. I guess just to admire the Perfectness of the number 1500.

 So I'll answer your PM in public. I'll hit 1500 before my REF1 gets here. However many posts that is. I won't be seeing it for weeks it seems.

 I'll also gladly have that rating removed from my profile if I could. Just delete it or let me know how to do it. I truly wish they would drop it for everyone. In the end we would all be happier.

 Told ya I had an opinion.

 So what was the point of your post?



 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL (of all the pics in that thread I get the only critic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...I don't see anything offensive in my query in this thread, although I didn't mean to rub in the SC straight to the 337SE SQ issue. I thought you still had the Zero going ....on the bright side it will give you the impetus to finish the Frankie mod (always a silver lining ! ). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad you are enjoying the JBL's but remember this, even studio monitors have a house sound coloration (JBL, Harbeth, BBC monitors all have there own unique voicing). 

 I don't want to make things worse but the RE1 and the C2C just showed up here. Damn is that DAC heavy....everything made it without a scratch or a dent, thank god. I'm going to go take a pile of pics now (inside and outside of both ) BBL with some pics and stuff.

 Peete._

 

Nothing offensive, I was just joking around with you.

 .


----------



## 8140david

I just found out this pricelist from ReizAudio (the "mother company" of Audio-Gd, which perhaps looks like another name for it):
Products/Price « REIZ Audio

 Boy, they have many products, much more than you can find on Audio-Gd's website, be it the English section or the Chinese section!

 Curious thing: I had a hard time figuring out the currency used in ReizAudio's pricelist.
 I tried Chinese Yuan, and then Hong Kong dollar, then also Japanese Yen, and then South-Korean Won (if perhaps they sold to these coutries from this website).
 But it didn't match with the prices on the Chinese section of Audio-Gd's website, for instance here for the pre-amplifiers (in Chinese Yuan):
ºÎÇì»ªÔ*´´ÒôÏì
 Then I tried Singapour Dollar, no match either.
 And finally, Taiwanese dollar: it does seem to match!

 Curious!
 So is the "mother company" of Audio-Gd a Taiwanese company, or a company largely based in Taiwan?

 Maybe I am extrapolating wrongly. Do correct me if I am wrong!


----------



## 8140david

I just found this other website of ReizAudio, which is clearly Taiwanese:
REIZAUDIO

 I am just curious to know what is the relationship between ReizAudio & Audio-Gd.
 I'll ask Kingwa.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8140david* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just found this other website of ReizAudio, which is clearly Taiwanese:
REIZAUDIO

 I am just curious to know what is the relationship between ReizAudio & Audio-Gd.
 I'll ask Kingwa._

 

That is interesting. You see a lot of Reisz stuff in the Audio-GD forum, I thought they were the same compnay. A lot of the Cartoons in the forum say Reisz.

 .


----------



## 8140david

Or maybe they have just developped a special partnership in Taiwan?

 Anyway, I'll report Kingwa's answer!


----------



## 8140david

Here is his answer:

 ' The TaiWan Reiz is our TaiWan agent, he only for sale in Taiwan.
 "Reiz" is our Chinese Brand transliteration (only transliteration, not offical register), we register English brand is "audio-gd". '

 Kingwa also thinks the Taiwan Reiz does not update its own website regularly (which explains why they have older products from Audio-Gd listed).

 In other words, given Kingwa's answer:
 Reiz Audio = Audio-Gd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Reiz = translitteration of the Chinese name of the company
 Audio-Gd = English name of the company

 In addition, Reiz Audio has a Taiwanese distributor, of the same name.
 It is the websites of that distributor I had found. __________________


----------



## theBigD

It absolutely astounds me how quickly audio gd responds to emails even something pretty insignificant (sales wise) as this. Just really great customer service. Make me want to buy more stuff from them.


----------



## ttnl

I've just asked Kingwa about how the DAC and amp of the Compass compare to C2C in term of amp and DAC 19SE in term of DAC. He said if DAC 19SE get 100 for DAC, then Compass DAC only gets 50, and if C2C get 100 for amp, then Compass amp gets 80. Look like Compass is more of an amp than a DAC. This makes me wonder whether I should get the DAC 19SE instead as I need the DAC more. I already have a very good SS amp and and another tube amp. What do you guys think?


----------



## dBs

End of the 7th day of burn-in and Ive kind of "broken the rules". My aftermarket cable came in for my HD650s. Some of the change from yesterday will surely be attributed to the cable, but even swapping cables back and fourth from the stock cable I can tell a difference in the highs. The highs are more pronounced now. I know, contrary to what Prickley Peete has mentioned XD I think Ill email Kingwa tonight to find out just how much burn-in occurred on the 110v units because I would be more inclined to doubt my own limited experience than that of Mr. Peete.

 No matter what though, it sounds significantly better Id say now than it did yesterday.

 EDIT: The way its been "morphing" has seemed more in tune with Mr. Peetes impressions if you account for more than the normal burn in before shipping. Im starting to think that this is maybe what happened. We will see when I get an email back.


----------



## sarathcpt

What's is the price range for the DAC 19SE ? The website just shows 'upgrading', doesn't quote a price.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttnl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just asked Kingwa about how the DAC and amp of the Compass compare to C2C in term of amp and DAC 19SE in term of DAC. He said if DAC 19SE get 100 for DAC, then Compass DAC only gets 50, and if C2C get 100 for amp, then Compass amp gets 80. Look like Compass is more of an amp than a DAC. This makes me wonder whether I should get the DAC 19SE instead as I need the DAC more. I already have a very good SS amp and and another tube amp. What do you guys think?_


----------



## ttnl

the price is $480, shipping is $120. so the total is $600


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttnl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ He said if DAC 19SE get 100 for DAC, then Compass DAC only gets 50, and if C2C get 100 for amp, then Compass amp gets 80. Look like Compass is more of an amp than a DAC._

 

Wow, straight from the horses mouth. That surprises me he would rate it like that, but then again you are getting an All-In-One unit for a very reasonable price. This may just end up being my work setup after all.


----------



## dBs

Reply:
 "Dear Scott [yea thats me =P],
 We deliver the 220V before the 110v.So the 220V burn in 100 hours while the 110V burn in 150 hours.
 Best regards."

 Not quite as much extra time as I had thought but I think it has been enough to make the difference. Accounting for that the total becomes:
 7*24+5+150=323 hours of burn-in. That makes a bit more sense. Maybe I can finally play with it a bit now XD


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttnl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just asked Kingwa about how the DAC and amp of the Compass compare to C2C in term of amp and DAC 19SE in term of DAC. He said if DAC 19SE get 100 for DAC, then Compass DAC only gets 50, and if C2C get 100 for amp, then Compass amp gets 80. Look like Compass is more of an amp than a DAC. This makes me wonder whether I should get the DAC 19SE instead as I need the DAC more. I already have a very good SS amp and and another tube amp. What do you guys think?_

 

Although the PCM1704UK is a better chip than AD1852, I don't think the DAC19SE is _twice_ as good as the Compass (yes, implementation matters, but still). It will be interesting to see how Kingwa defines his reference points at 0 and 100, what is his perfection, and how other DACs fit into this. YMMV.

 In terms of statistics and assuming the sound quality has a normal distribution I would say a midrange DAC like Compass should fit somewhere between the 1st and 2nd standard deviation, while a high-end DAC like 19SE should be somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd. The reference series should be closer to 3rd and higher. This would mean that no high-end DAC can be twice as good as a midrange DAC, but it can be very close to being twice as good than a entry-level DAC.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Although the PCM1704UK is a better chip than AD1852, I don't think the DAC19SE is twice as good as the Compass (yes, implementation matters, but still). It will be interesting to see how Kingwa defines his reference points at 0 and 100, what is his perfection, and how other DACs fit into this. YMMV._

 

Jeez, gevorg, could you at least try to trust the designer on his words for once! If Kingwa says that the Compass DAC (roughly equivalent to the DAC-100) is 50% of the DAC-19SE than that stands as the most informed opinion on the matter. Once you've had a chance to compare the two you can enlighten us with yours.

 And the reference of perfection is obviously the DAC that Kingwa hasn't build yet. And it will always be that way.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I'll answer your PM in public. I'll hit 1500 before my REF1 gets here. However many posts that is. I won't be seeing it for weeks it seems.

 I'll also gladly have that rating removed from my profile if I could. Just delete it or let me know how to do it. I truly wish they would drop it for everyone. In the end we would all be happier.

 Told ya I had an opinion.

 So what was the point of your post?_

 

Thanks for your opinion Les. Really didn't know that it was such an exposed nerve. If I had the talents of the Audio-gd boards-cartoonist I would draw you with an albatross around your neck labeled '1500 posts, and counting'. Maybe, if you ask really nicely, the mods can remove your post-count and replace it with: "Thinks post counts are detrimental to the quality of a forum." Not that I completely disagree with that opinion...
 As to a point, ...you were expecting a point? Ehm, sorry, there wasn't one. Sometimes I just leave my agenda at home.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reply:
 "Dear Scott [yea thats me =P],
 We deliver the 220V before the 110v.So the 220V burn in 100 hours while the 110V burn in 150 hours.
 Best regards."

 Not quite as much extra time as I had thought but I think it has been enough to make the difference. Accounting for that the total becomes:
 7*24+5+150=323 hours of burn-in. That makes a bit more sense. Maybe I can finally play with it a bit now XD_

 

You'll also notice that I said the treble starts to come back from 320-350 hours give or take a few...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sound staging , frequency balance and dynamics will improve from 400-550 hours. A fairly substantial improvement no less. 

 The after market cable for the 650's does improve treble response (by a hair) but just enough to remove the label of 650's = dark or veiled, and the all important presence region also receives a boost in SQ (which typically is associated with the terms air and ambiance) .

 A lot of times simply improving the noise floor of the unit by employing properly built power supplies (well regulated and filtered) doesn't add detail but rather unmasks it from the background grunge. Something to keep in mind.

 The Compass DAC is pretty darn good actually, it bested what I used against it in thew review (not including the latest acquisition mind you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). That being said it's a high value budget unit that we all need to keep reminding ourselves of that fact every once in a while 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well I've done enough rambling on tonight...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jeez, gevorg, could you at least try to trust the designer on his words for once! If Kingwa says that the Compass DAC (roughly equivalent to the DAC-100) is 50% of the DAC-19SE than that stands as the most informed opinion on the matter. Once you've had a chance to compare the two you can enlighten us with yours.

 And the reference of perfection is obviously the DAC that Kingwa hasn't build yet. And it will always be that way._

 

LOL Drosera, can you think for yourself once or at least try to understand the logic behind one's reasoning?

 All I'm asking is what reference points does Kingwa uses in his comparison, since it makes it much more easier to compare. There is nothing wrong with 19SE being twice as good as the Compass for Kingwa, but it can also be only halfway better for someone else, and three times better for another.

 For example, Currawong rated Compass at 80, DAC1/Lavry at 95 and Dragon DAC at 120. Do you think he'll rate the 19SE at 160 (80*2)? This is why definition of reference points is important.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nothing offensive, I was just joking around with you.

 ._

 

No worries Les....Carry on !

 Peete.

 PS: BTW I agree with you...I'd rather have status awarded by merit and scrap the post count thing. Then again none of those changes would stop the likes of A....N....D...R...E....A and others who delight in thread crapping as a life style choice.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You'll also notice that I said the treble starts to come back from 320-350 hours give or take a few...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sound staging , frequency balance and dynamics will improve from 400-550 hours. A fairly substantial improvement no less. 

 The after market cable for the 650's does improve treble response (by a hair) but just enough to remove the label of 650's = dark or veiled, and the all important presence region also receives a boost in SQ (which typically is associated with the terms air and ambiance) .

 A lot of times simply improving the noise floor of the unit by employing properly built power supplies (well regulated and filtered) doesn't add detail but rather unmasks it from the background grunge. Something to keep in mind.

 The Compass DAC is pretty darn good actually, it bested what I used against it in thew review (not including the latest acquisition mind you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). That being said it's a high value budget unit that we all need to keep reminding ourselves of that fact every once in a while 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well I've done enough rambling on tonight...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Indeed, I was just wondering why my results were going against the experiences you and others had had. I knew something was odd, hence my constant internalized nagging to email Kingwa about it. Im glad that my results thus far are not completely off and my ears broken XD

 Now the question is whether or not the Earth is at least 80% burnt-in. If so, than I will start burning the rest. As I will want to keep the Soft 2 setting to continue the Compass burn in since it apparently can take up to an entire month, I will likely start with the Sun. The suns forward nature will hopefully offset the Soft 2s roll off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the insight!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Although the PCM1704UK is a better chip than AD1852, I don't think the DAC19SE is twice as good as the Compass (yes, implementation matters, but still). It will be interesting to see how Kingwa defines his reference points at 0 and 100, what is his perfection, and how other DACs fit into this. YMMV.

 In terms of statistics and assuming the sound quality has a normal distribution I would say a midrange DAC like Compass should fit somewhere between the 1st and 2nd standard deviation, while a high-end DAC like 19SE should be somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd. The reference series should be closer to 3rd and higher. This would mean that no high-end DAC can be twice as good as a midrange DAC, but it can be very close to being twice as good than a entry-level DAC._

 

Are you a math major?






 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your opinion Les. Really didn't know that it was such an exposed nerve. If I had the talents of the Audio-gd boards-cartoonist I would draw you with an albatross around your neck labeled '1500 posts, and counting'. Maybe, if you ask really nicely, the mods can remove your post-count and replace it with: "Thinks post counts are detrimental to the quality of a forum." Not that I completely disagree with that opinion...
 As to a point, ...you were expecting a point? Ehm, sorry, there wasn't one. Sometimes I just leave my agenda at home._

 

Guess you were just trying to be amusing then...

 .


----------



## dBs

Uhm wow, wowowowowow! I figured Id finally get around to my antsy fiddling. I went most of the night using Earth+Neutral. It sounded great, better than Earth+Soft 2. It was...more neutral! Sounded great. That wasnt the show stopper. I decided to burn in the Moon overnight so itll be warmed up for me by morning. For the hell of it I thought I would try the setting that most piqued my interest Moon+Bright. Wow, THIS is EXACTLY what Ive been looking for. The bass hits hard, but with definition, but the highs are completely compensated for now. Granted I havent heard the Moon+Neutral, but this is really the sort of sound Ive been searching for. Fast but still with impact and defined.

 This is my sweet spot configuration: Moon+Bright. Its accomplished the clearly defined things that I wanted to see in the HD650 to make them what I consider "perfect". I dont want to go to sleep but I know I have tooooo ;_;


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttnl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just asked Kingwa about how the DAC and amp of the Compass compare to C2C in term of amp and DAC 19SE in term of DAC. He said if DAC 19SE get 100 for DAC, then Compass DAC only gets 50, and if C2C get 100 for amp, then Compass amp gets 80. Look like Compass is more of an amp than a DAC. This makes me wonder whether I should get the DAC 19SE instead as I need the DAC more. I already have a very good SS amp and and another tube amp. What do you guys think?_

 

Makes sense to me if you have a good SS amp, then going for the upgraded DAC19se would be a wiser investment, as its would be a nice upgrade to Compass DAC, the new upgraded DAC19SE should be having physical dimensions like the Compass, so more convenient to park.. Btw, the DAC100 is also being upgraded, so you might as well wait and see how things develop.. thats atleast how I would have gone about things..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttnl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just asked Kingwa about how the DAC and amp of the Compass compare to C2C in term of amp and DAC 19SE in term of DAC. He said if DAC 19SE get 100 for DAC, then Compass DAC only gets 50, and if C2C get 100 for amp, then Compass amp gets 80. Look like Compass is more of an amp than a DAC. This makes me wonder whether I should get the DAC 19SE instead as I need the DAC more. I already have a very good SS amp and and another tube amp. What do you guys think?_

 

I agree with the Compass vs. C2C headamp assessment here. The differences are more noticeable for me with HD600s, less so with my Denons.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jeez, gevorg, could you at least try to trust the designer on his words for once! If Kingwa says that the Compass DAC (roughly equivalent to the DAC-100) is 50% of the DAC-19SE than that stands as the most informed opinion on the matter. Once you've had a chance to compare the two you can enlighten us with yours.

 And the reference of perfection is obviously the DAC that Kingwa hasn't build yet. And it will always be that way._

 

At first, before I bought the C2C, I didn't take Kingwa's word anything, just because I don't do that with anyone. He said to me that the C2C is a high-end amp that needs a good source. "For $330?" I thought, that's a bold statement. He was absolutely right though, as it passed through the detail from the Lavry DA-10 I had at the time exactly, without loss! I still don't believe I've truly found its limits as an amp.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL Drosera, can you think for yourself once or at least try to understand the logic behind one's reasoning?

 All I'm asking is what reference points does Kingwa uses in his comparison, since it makes it much more easier to compare. There is nothing wrong with 19SE being twice as good as the Compass for Kingwa, but it can also be only halfway better for someone else, and three times better for another.

 For example, Currawong rated Compass at 80, DAC1/Lavry at 95 and Dragon DAC at 120. Do you think he'll rate the 19SE at 160 (80*2)? This is why definition of reference points is important. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Whatever you do, don't take any of these numbers as percentages. They are more useful in showing the relative degree of difference in SQ between the DACs. It's also a tricky issue as pro-audio type DACs, such as the Benchmark and Lavry have a very different sound signature compared to audiophile DACs such as the Northstar, which are generally much softer. In the case of the Compass vs. the Benchmark, there's a significant difference in sound, the Benchmark sounding considerably more open than the darker Compass. However, the Compass DAC (with Earth OPA) and Northstar actually don't sound much different, the Compass only sounding more digital than the Northstar. This with a quite serious Stax headphone rig.

 However, I think more is going on here, as the Northstar changes with a good power cable, which I didn't have until recently.


----------



## Thundernuts

The ST-3 also looks interesting. Has anyone compared the ST-3 to the C2C or Compass?

 Does anyone know what Kingwa's thoughts on cross-feed are? Is there a reason why none of his products offer cross-feed?

 I have a custom OPA627 Pimeta with a cross-feed circuit, and i find the X-feed makes quite a big difference and is becoming essential for long term listening.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ST-3 also looks interesting. Has anyone compared the ST-3 to the C2C or Compass?_

 

Curra has, see the first post of this thread.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know what Kingwa's thoughts on cross-feed are? Is there a reason why none of his products offer cross-feed?_

 

He may look into it in the future, certainly if enough people keep suggesting it. Who knows. But cross-feed is quite a design effort, especially if you want to do it well. And it always degrades sound quality. In the end it seems comparable to having tone controls on an amp: some people need it, but the real purists will always do without it.


----------



## Thundernuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ In the end it seems comparable to having tone controls on an amp: some people need it, but the real purists will always do without it._

 

I agree, but if it means i don't get a headache, i can live with a slight decrease in resolution.

 I used to consider cross-feed as a gimmick myself, and would quietly poo-poo those who thought otherwise. 

 Despite my own reservations, even the most simple cross-feed circuits i've heard really do make a huge difference.

 Now, when listening to a music, when i want to hear every ounce of detail, i will turn it off, but my brain instantly recognises the change and a headache follows almost immediatley. Turn the cross-feed back on, and the relief is just as instant.

 I am now finding music through headphones a much more relaxing experience, rather than a detail analysing chore.


----------



## haloxt

I use foobar2k's diskwriter to apply bs2b DSP to files before moving it to my mp3 player and I suppose it can be done for cd's for cd-transports. I pity the fool who takes those modified files not knowing they are crossfeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 As for some people liking crossfeed and others not, it's not something to argue about because it's like arguing if people should get seasick or not.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree, but if it means i don't get a headache, i can live with a slight decrease in resolution.

 I used to consider cross-feed as a gimmick myself, and would quietly poo-poo those who thought otherwise. 

 Despite my own reservations, even the most simple cross-feed circuits i've heard really do make a huge difference.

 Now, when listening to a music, when i want to hear every ounce of detail, i will turn it off, but my brain instantly recognises the change and a headache follows almost immediatley. Turn the cross-feed back on, and the relief is just as instant.

 I am now finding music through headphones a much more relaxing experience, rather than a detail analysing chore._

 

No, I wouldn't say cross-feed is a gimmick, as I said already, some people really need it to enjoy headphones. You seem to be a rather extreme example of this though.
 I'm curious now, did you also have these problems (headaches) with listening without crossfeed before you started using cross-feed regularly?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ST-3 also looks interesting. Has anyone compared the ST-3 to the C2C or Compass?

 Does anyone know what Kingwa's thoughts on cross-feed are? Is there a reason why none of his products offer cross-feed?

 I have a custom OPA627 Pimeta with a cross-feed circuit, and i find the X-feed makes quite a big difference and is becoming essential for long term listening._

 

I was going to write up a review on the ST3, and I still will when I get it back from a friend I lent it to so he could try it with some headphones. When I received it for review was a bad time for me, and also if I had suddenly written up a bunch of reviews all on Audio-gd gear (who was almost un-heard of until recently) people might have thought I was shilling (which of course I'd never do). I wanted to make sure people understood where I'm coming from first, as well as have other people speak for themselves about their experiences with the Compass etc. I also hadn't owned or tried enough gear to be sure on my perspectives. Now that the Compass is out there and people have reviewed it and compared it to other gear, that has validated my own opinions to a degree, so I know I can be more confident in what I write. 

 Anyway, the ST3 is a surprisingly good little amp. I really need to carefully compare it to my C2C, as it has a similar sound signature, with a bit of a bass boost, which makes it nice for Grados and HD600s, but awfully boomy with my re-cupped Denons. It's not a pretty unit - it uses the DAC100 box and a large, plastic volume knob. Before the Compass, I think it was designed to go together with the DAC100, but the Compass has fairly superseded that combo. The problem with comparing it to the Compass's headphone amp is the different sound signatures, which makes it harder to determine which drives headphones better and how much detail they pass through.


----------



## Thundernuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm curious now, did you also have these problems (headaches) with listening without crossfeed before you started using cross-feed regularly?_

 

Uhuh. So much so, i've been avoiding headphones for the past 5 years and spending all my time and money constructing a full size system (and a new house to put it in...) haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe if i'd tried cross-feed back in 2004, i wouldn't be suffering with such a crippling mortgage... the very reason i am now returning to headphones... and the vicious cycle continues...


----------



## mbd2884

Disclaimer: These are my observed, subjective opinions. Flame me if you'd like, but my opinion WILL NOT change. Flame me if you want, don't care, you can spend more for less, and believe somehow it's truly best SS amp you have heard or whatever other reasons you can come up with.

 My point with Compass, I won't argue it's the best. But finally, an Amplifier with DAC where I can understand, yes this was worth my $258 or even $450 dollars. I understand why I am paying this much money. I am happy to pay this price. Whether Amp sounds good or not, don't care, your ears aren't mine. That's for you to decide.

 Alright. For a long time my big problem in the Headphones and Amps/DACs on this forum has been price justification. Example, how does TTVJ justify his prices. But even budget Headphone Amps prices perplex me and yet people buy them. How are these prices justified? Look at HeadAmp, they claim 2 years of research on the HeadAmp GS. Looks exactly like the Gilmore Lite with individual modules and an actual real power source. And research? It's a Gilmore design. 

 When I see stuff like this, I truly wonder how these companies justify the prices for their equipment. I truly believe Headphone Amps made in Europe and USA are disgustingly overpriced. Yeah yeah, some random dude on Head-Fi thinks that the Solo is the best SS he/she has ever heard, but in the end, it's YOUR ears to decide and then look at price and compare for quality parts what you are getting. YOU decide what these grossly overpriced Headphone Amps are really worth. Good sound yes, good design yes, but that doesn't mean you should be on the short stick for quality parts.

 First up is the Graham Slee Solo (Made in UK) on left Approx ($425), on right Compass Amp ($150-200 after promotion, not fair since Compass has a dedicated power source included).

*









*Audio Purity KICAS. Made in Canada. Seriously... C'mon look at those head sinks. Look at the Jack, Volume Pot. Has Elna Silmic capacitors I believe, so why stop with quality parts there?









 Next up is the Heed Audio CanAmp Made in Hungary (Approx $400)









 HeadAmp Gilmore Lite made in USA ($400), 2 years of research using a freely available to use schematic from Dr. Gilmore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	












 I think another good comparison would be to look at Woo Audio's 3 vs Audio Tailor's new Jade

 SinglePower SDS-XLR (Left). Darkvoice 337SE (Right). Both Point to Point wiring.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Disclaimer: These are my observed, subjective opinions. Flame me if you'd like, but my opinion WILL NOT change. Flame me if you want, don't care, you can spend more for less, and believe somehow it's truly best SS amp you have heard or whatever other b.s you can come up with._

 

Because you can never have too much Jean-Luc Picard:


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because you can never have too much Jean-Luc Picard:_

 

And I graciously thank you.


----------



## dBs

You know....that image of Jean-Luc Picard would look way better if he had headphones on....


----------



## les_garten

Looks like Kingwa just lost as few more sales...


 .


----------



## Aleatoris

yipes, I know you posted the picture of the compass over and over for emphasis... but, isn't one time enough?


----------



## mbd2884

Served a different purpose this time. 

 Isn't asking a comparison for the Compass to some random other amp once enough?


----------



## haloxt

mbd, please don't use this thread as your platform for ranting about amps. You think other amps are cheap go whine about them on their threads.


----------



## csroc

Or create your own.


----------



## les_garten

POST: Aleatori yipes, I know you posted the picture of the compass over and over for emphasis... but, isn't one time enough?

 You're going to reason with *THIS* Guy??!!

  Quote:


 Disclaimer: These are my observed, subjective opinions. Flame me if you'd like, but my opinion WILL NOT change. 
 

Well ok then, Go for it! I'll watch...

 .


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the hell of it I thought I would try the setting that most piqued my interest Moon+Bright. Wow, THIS is EXACTLY what Ive been looking for. The bass hits hard, but with definition, but the highs are completely compensated for now. Granted I havent heard the Moon+Neutral, but this is really the sort of sound Ive been searching for. Fast but still with impact and defined.

 This is my sweet spot configuration: Moon+Bright. Its accomplished the clearly defined things that I wanted to see in the HD650 to make them what I consider "perfect". I dont want to go to sleep but I know I have tooooo ;_;_

 

Interesting. I've done 100-150 hours burn-in of the Earth + Neutral combination and I also found it to dark with the HD650. So after reading your message I decided to give the bright setting a go and I agree that it seems to suit the Sennheisers very well. It's a good thing this setting was added to the current version of the Compass.

 As a sidenote I can mention that I a couple of days ago did a very quick comparison of the Compass to my Zero (with 627 op amp and I can't remember the other upgraded OP amps name, anyway the standard mod that was available before the HDAM craze kicked in) combined with a Musical Fidelity V-Amp. It was pretty obvious that the Compass won when when it came to HI-FI parameters, but the other combo had a sound balance that better suited my ears (less bass and more treble). It's going to be interesting to do the same comparison somewhere in the future and using the bright setting on the compass instead.

 The rather dark neutral setting on the Compass was obviously good suited for my AKG K701, but I haven't been in K701 mood lately so I haven't spent much time with that combo. I'm sure 701-owners will be pleased with it anyway.

 Of course all these characteristics might change after a longer burn-in period... But I'm confident that I never will use any of the Soft-settings anyway.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. I've done 100-150 hours burn-in of the Earth + Neutral combination and I also found it to dark with the HD650. So after reading your message I decided to give the bright setting a go and I agree that it seems to suit the Sennheisers very well. It's a good thing this setting was added to the current version of the Compass.

 As a sidenote I can mention that I a couple of days ago did a very quick comparison of the Compass to my Zero (with 627 op amp and I can't remember the other upgraded OP amps name, anyway the standard mod that was available before the HDAM craze kicked in) combined with a Musical Fidelity V-Amp. It was pretty obvious that the Compass won when when it came to HI-FI parameters, but the other combo had a sound balance that better suited my ears (less bass and more treble). It's going to be interesting to do the same comparison somewhere in the future and using the bright setting on the compass instead.

 The rather dark neutral setting on the Compass was obviously good suited for my AKG K701, but I haven't been in K701 mood lately so I haven't spent much time with that combo. I'm sure 701-owners will be pleased with it anyway.

 Of course all these characteristics might change after a longer burn-in period... But I'm confident that I never will use any of the Soft-settings anyway._

 

Jimminy Crickets!
 I knew someone would come up with a reason for me to add the Moon to the Order too!

 Thanx for that!

 .


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jimminy Crickets!
 I knew someone would come up with a reason for me to add the Moon to the Order too!

 Thanx for that!

 ._

 


 But I'm trying the Earth with the bright setting, dBs is using the Moon with the bright setting. 

 Just to confuse things a bit


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Uhm wow, wowowowowow! I figured Id finally get around to my antsy fiddling. I went most of the night using Earth+Neutral. It sounded great, better than Earth+Soft 2. It was...more neutral! Sounded great. That wasnt the show stopper. I decided to burn in the Moon overnight so itll be warmed up for me by morning. For the hell of it I thought I would try the setting that most piqued my interest Moon+Bright. Wow, THIS is EXACTLY what Ive been looking for. The bass hits hard, but with definition, but the highs are completely compensated for now. Granted I havent heard the Moon+Neutral, but this is really the sort of sound Ive been searching for. Fast but still with impact and defined.

 This is my sweet spot configuration: Moon+Bright. Its accomplished the clearly defined things that I wanted to see in the HD650 to make them what I consider "perfect". I dont want to go to sleep but I know I have tooooo ;_;_

 

This is precisely the news Curra and I had hoped for when we discussed the possibilities of the Bright/Moon marriage being an equal of the Earth/Neutral combination giving in essence two amps for the price of one.

 I'll have to try this myself when the production version Compass arrives in the near future.

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But I'm trying the Earth with the bright setting, dBs is using the Moon with the bright setting. 

 Just to confuse things a bit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I had the Earth and SUN on my order, and you guys conversation makes me HAVE to add the Moon now. No Starbucks for a few days!

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is precisely the news Curra and I had hoped for when we discussed the possibilities of the Bright/Moon marriage being an equal of the Earth/Neutral combination giving in essence two amps for the price of one.

 I'll have to try this myself when the production version Compass arrives in the near future.

 Peete._

 

Well, this gives me a little thing to do tomorrow, I have never played around with the soft settings, and since I love the SUN minus the bit too much highs and lows, maybe I can try the marriage of soft1/Sun and see what it sounds like.. Thanks !


----------



## scootermafia

Most of these small amps are glorified CMOYs, I like how the GS novo has more going on inside than the twice the price solo. At least with the Compass you know where your money is going.

 I've said it before and been flamed for it, people that use the world's most chinese parts should charge a chinese price for their amp. When I see a no name jack and no name potentiometer, no name jacks on something resembling a radio shack project board, and I see a $400 price tag, I laugh. I don't care how "good" it sounds, if your design kicks so much ass then use premium parts that will last longer and not fail as early, and improve the sound that much more. If you claim you can't hear the difference, well, premium parts tend to last longer as they are not made as cheaply as humanly possible.

 The fact is, most of these amps are sold to people that just don't care or know any better, that'll never hear or see an Audio-GD or DIY M3. It's raw stupidity to charge that much for a "design" when we all know that these designs are not even very original.

 You can hate me for saying this, but everybody that sees inside an overpriced amp feels exactly what I am saying. Lots of companies live off their name and perceived value while manufacturers that actually care like Audio-GD are distrusted for being Chinese.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most of these small amps are glorified CMOYs, I like how the GS novo has more going on inside than the twice the price solo. At least with the Compass you know where your money is going._

 

You want to see a Fancy CMOY, you should see the inside of the Grado RA-1. What a ripoff! It's Like 2 caps, an OPA, 6 resisters, a Vol pot and a block of Mahogany. Then seal it in glue so you can't peer at it!

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You want to see a Fancy CMOY, you should see the inside of the Grado RA-1. What a ripoff! It's Like 2 caps, an OPA, 6 resisters, a Vol pot and a block of Mahogany. Then seal it in glue so you can't peer at it!_

 

Yeah, that really is the biggest joke in headamp-land. But you can get away with it if your headphones manage to sound great even with minimal amping (which the Grado's do).

 Anyways, don't underestimate the warm and natural sound signature that results from using mahogany.


----------



## theBigD

Well, I am getting a chance to spend some time with BOOMERSOONERS compass. Its gonna take me a bit to acclimate to it. The DAC is the thing I cant quite get a handle on. 

 I wasnt expecting this kinda change with the sound. Using the DAC out of my modded X-FI I get some midrange push and dynamics which is very benificial with my denon d7000. The COMPASS Spreads out the soundstage and empasizes the bass a bit and looses some midrange emphasis which makes my denon sound a bit hollow. But my AKG 701s sing like they never have before!

 If I remove the DAC from the equation and use the X-FI I kinda like it better with the DENON D7000. 

 If I run my EF1 out of the DAC on the COMPASS I get similair results good bass but diminished midrange and kinda hollow.

 But this is very preliminary impressions. Ive only had a couple hours with it. But I just wasnt expecting the DAC to be such a change.


----------



## Aleatoris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_POST: Aleatori yipes, I know you posted the picture of the compass over and over for emphasis... but, isn't one time enough?

 You're going to reason with *THIS* Guy??!!

 Well ok then, Go for it! I'll watch...

 ._

 

=P I got no beef with the guy; it was just a random opinion.

 On a related note, I too am impressed with the build quality of the compass, at least from what the pictures show me. Good parts, low price, clean construction. What more could a college kid ask for, right?

 Also, very interested in the moon/bright combo. I will definitely give that a shot as soon as I try out Earth/neutral... which will happen as soon as I get my compass. Man, I don't wanna wait anymoooore!


----------



## doping panda

Man, that Moon + Bright setting is sometime I really interested in. I wonder how big the soundstage my 500 can get with the moon
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Sadly, it'll probably be about a month or so until I can get a Compass since I spent all my money on headphones: I just couldn't pass up on the K500 and the HD580. I can't get a job until Spring break is over, but when I do get my Compass I'll be posting here pretty often. Until then, I'll be looking forward to more impressions from you guys.


----------



## Eqvil

I've been following this thread pretty much from the start, and although I'm tempted in getting the reference one and C-2C I think I'll start out with the slightly cheaper compass, since I'm new to this and all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There's alot of impressions here on the earth and moon OPA, but not so much on the sun. Which makes me unsure if I should just get the moon + earth or throw in a sun too. And even more so when people say my only headphones (HD650) are somewhat dark and/or veiled and the sun is said to be forward. Sounds like a good match atleast on paper?
 Could anyone with the HD650 tell me if it's worth getting the sun too?

 Oh, and while I'm still talking about the OPA's. Are they sensetive to electrostatic discharge? Is it wise to use an ESD bracelet while switching them?


----------



## ScottieB

I love the Sun - haven't tried my new one in the Compass yet, but I really liked the Sun V1 in the Zero. 

 Just to clarify, the Compass ships in bright mode now right? No jumpers? Sorry I forgot to look at my jumpers when I got it...


----------



## haloxt

That's right Scottie.

 Should remind people, when audio-gd was first selling the compass they recommended choosing between moon and earth instead of the sun (if my memory serves me right). But it is kinda fun in the compass, you decide if you want it. That is also why you haven't heard many impressions of the sun in the compass.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You want to see a Fancy CMOY, you should see the inside of the Grado RA-1. What a ripoff! It's Like 2 caps, an OPA, 6 resisters, a Vol pot and a block of Mahogany. Then seal it in glue so you can't peer at it!
 ._

 

Someone decided to mod his Grado RA-1, took pictures, but decided to put a Pimeta instead of modding the RA-1, lols. Seriously, all the parts in this picture. 

 Grado RA-1 Internals (Approx. $30 in parts, retails for $350) on the left, the Graham Slee Novo (200 British Pounds) on the right.









 It's a lot of fun knowing what is inside these amps, rather than just saying oo, ahhh, and not questioning.

 OT, who else is keeping their Compass prototype? Am I the only one to mod the prototype to reduce the gain rather than get the finalized version? I just like that mind does not have a pre-amp option, little weird, oh well.


----------



## Zanth

To be fair, you are missing the $20+ block of mahogany in that picture. Grado charges what? 50% of what dealers charge? I think that is the typical manufacturer deal in audio, and so one is looking at Perhaps 50-60 in parts cost, then labor to make it and overhead and one sees that the $150-175 they would get in gross income is reduced to under half of that as profit. What kills these companies (bigger ones) are the overhead of employees and warehouse space. Benefits when implemented eat up a huge percentage. Skip out on HR, do the one to two man shop thing and one can start talking about a one to one ratio. But, one also needs to look at wages between regions. Hourly wage in Brooklyn is gonna be a monthly wage for a guy in China.


----------



## JackKander

Which OPA would you recommend to compliment the HD650s?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To be fair, you are missing the $20+ block of mahogany in that picture. Grado charges what? 50% of what dealers charge? I think that is the typical manufacturer deal in audio, and so one is looking at Perhaps 50-60 in parts cost, then labor to make it and overhead and one sees that the $150-175 they would get in gross income is reduced to under half of that as profit. What kills these companies (bigger ones) are the overhead of employees and warehouse space. Benefits when implemented eat up a huge percentage. Skip out on HR, do the one to two man shop thing and one can start talking about a one to one ratio. But, one also needs to look at wages between regions. Hourly wage in Brooklyn is gonna be a monthly wage for a guy in China._

 

Hi,
 But If you toss the $20 piece of wood into that Photo, it's still rough to say it's worth $350 on the low end to $450 on the high end. It's listed at Amazon right now for $425. The schematic is basically a CMOY schematic, very little difference. You are correct about Chinese labor that goes for less than $1 an hour in a large part of China. The overhead difference between Brooklyn and wherever in China is astronomical. There are no Unions, employee protections, OSHA, Workman's Comp, Unemployment Benefits, Trial Lawyers, or anything else there to drive prices up.

 So here's your choices. You can get a CMOY in Mahogany from Grado for $425 or get a Compass AND Blow $120 for Dinner for two at Morton's. Hmmmm....

 These guys are rough to compete against, no doubt. If we REALLY let China flood out Markets with no regulation, watch out! You should see what the Chinese are doing in the Hi end auto parts markets! Like Porsche Wastegates, Headers, Electronic, Fuel Injection Goodies, you name it. They can make very servicable copies of this stuff and there is no way to compete with theri prices. Great for the DIYers. 

 Enjoy this while you can. There is no telling where this economy will go from here. The econoomic war hasn't started yet! It's gearing up though.

 I know you're a big Grado Fan, but I'm not sure this is the Good Fight here with the RA-1 standing here with it's knickers down.


 .


----------



## sarathcpt

Just curious to know what combination of OPA/mode you are trying.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I am getting a chance to spend some time with BOOMERSOONERS compass. Its gonna take me a bit to acclimate to it. The DAC is the thing I cant quite get a handle on. 

 I wasnt expecting this kinda change with the sound. Using the DAC out of my modded X-FI I get some midrange push and dynamics which is very benificial with my denon d7000. The COMPASS Spreads out the soundstage and empasizes the bass a bit and looses some midrange emphasis which makes my denon sound a bit hollow. But my AKG 701s sing like they never have before!

 If I remove the DAC from the equation and use the X-FI I kinda like it better with the DENON D7000. 

 If I run my EF1 out of the DAC on the COMPASS I get similair results good bass but diminished midrange and kinda hollow.

 But this is very preliminary impressions. Ive only had a couple hours with it. But I just wasnt expecting the DAC to be such a change._


----------



## theBigD

Well I started with SUN/Nuetral. Then after feeling the lack of midrange switched to Earth/Nuetral. I think I like the Earth better overal. But the Earth has more burn in than SUN in this unit. I still really like the SUN in my EF1 lots of energy and dynamics.

 Still kinda puzzled about the DAC. This is one area Ive kinda avoided at head-fi just wanting to believe the DAC didnt make much difference once you got a pretty good one. My wallet is already crying!


----------



## braindrift

I am interested in purchasing the audio-gd compass, but I have a few questions first if someone could answer them for me I’d be grateful.

 1) I intend to use the audio-gd compass like this will it work?

 IN
 -PC
 -Xbox 360

 OUT
 -Audioengine A5 (maybe w/ a sub)
 -Undecided headphone probably hd650

 2) Also could someone please explain what the three rca in the back are meant for?

 3) I am planning on buy the compass because I can bypass the dac or amp at time. Could some please tell me whether the dac or amp of the compass is better? (DAC>AMP or AMP>DAC)

 4) I listen mostly to instrumental music is this the right dac/amp combination for me.

 Listening Tastes
 80%- Instrumental – (post-rock, metal, stoner, drone, ambient, jazz, etc.)
 15% - led zep to Tool
 5% - everything else

 Thanks in advance for any helpful responses.


----------



## jron

Many thanks to all who worked so hard with the design changes and reviews. I just ordered my Compass today due to all the feedback in this thread. Everyone made this purchase an easy decision. I felt an urge to order both the Sun V2 and the Moon OPA given the high cost of shipping. Did I waste money on getting the Sun OPA?

 Edit: I should also take a moment to mention how easy the ordering process was with Kingwa. I emailed him at 1:00 AM (his time). And he walked me through the payment process with lightning fast response time - it was almost... frightening?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many thanks to all who worked so hard with the design changes and reviews. I just ordered my Compass today due to all the feedback in this thread. Everyone made this purchase an easy decision. I felt an urge to order both the Sun V2 and the Moon OPA given the high cost of shipping. Did I waste money on getting the Sun OPA?

 Edit: I should also take a moment to mention how easy the ordering process was with Kingwa. I emailed him at 1:00 AM (his time). And he walked me through the payment process with lightning fast response time - it was almost... frightening? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There's no place you can have that much fun for $20!

 Just think of the permutations you can do with all the HDAM/Jumper setting Combos with two HDAMs? You'll be able to taylor the sound all those different ways before you finally settle on neutral!

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am interested in purchasing the audio-gd compass, but I have a few questions first if someone could answer them for me I’d be grateful.

 1) I intend to use the audio-gd compass like this will it work?

 IN
 -PC
 -Xbox 360

 OUT
 -Audioengine A5 (maybe w/ a sub)
 -Undecided headphone probably hd650

 2) Also could someone please explain what the three rca in the back are meant for?

 3) I am planning on buy the compass because I can bypass the dac or amp at time. Could some please tell me whether the dac or amp of the compass is better? (DAC>AMP or AMP>DAC)

 4) I listen mostly to instrumental music is this the right dac/amp combination for me.

 Listening Tastes
 80%- Instrumental – (post-rock, metal, stoner, drone, ambient, jazz, etc.)
 15% - led zep to Tool
 5% - everything else

 Thanks in advance for any helpful responses._

 

Perhaps some reading might help you...

 The Truth is Out there!


 p.s. a lot of it is on page one.


 .


----------



## Shirukii

I've been following this thread on and off for the past couple months and I am still undecided on whether to buy the Compass or not. The only thing holding me back is the fact that I already have an amp, and I can't seem to justify purchasing a combo DAC/Amp when the latter will most likely seldom be used.

 I've battled it out in my head using the abundant information in this thread, but now I ask for some more directed advice. Is it worth buying the compass over a standalone DAC if I already have an amp? (LD MKIII, in case that matters)

 If not, are there any standalone DACs that are recommended in the same price range $300-350 USD?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shirukii* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been following this thread on and off for the past couple months and I am still undecided on whether to buy the Compass or not. The only thing holding me back is the fact that I already have an amp, and I can't seem to justify purchasing a combo DAC/Amp when the latter will most likely seldom be used.

 I've battled it out in my head using the abundant information in this thread, but now I ask for some more directed advice. Is it worth buying the compass over a standalone DAC if I already have an amp? (LD MKIII, in case that matters)

 If not, are there any standalone DACs that are recommended in the same price range $300-350 USD?_

 

I got rid of my DACs and the little amps to make room for a Compass and a REF1. I have a DV 337SE that I cannot stand to listen to thru the soundcard. 

 Once you've used an External DAC, you can't go back! -- *Johnnie Cochran circa 2005*

 .


----------



## Thundernuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mbd, please don't use this thread as your platform for ranting about amps. You think other amps are cheap go whine about them on their threads._

 

I did just as you suggest on the Heed CanAmp thread and was shunned for not giving a gushing review... can't win! I agree with MDB thoughts and think his post with with photo comparisons is great. Ignore at own peril!!


----------



## Thundernuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most of these small amps are glorified CMOYs, I like how the GS novo has more going on inside than the twice the price solo. At least with the Compass you know where your money is going.

 I've said it before and been flamed for it, people that use the world's most chinese parts should charge a chinese price for their amp. When I see a no name jack and no name potentiometer, no name jacks on something resembling a radio shack project board, and I see a $400 price tag, I laugh. I don't care how "good" it sounds, if your design kicks so much ass then use premium parts that will last longer and not fail as early, and improve the sound that much more. If you claim you can't hear the difference, well, premium parts tend to last longer as they are not made as cheaply as humanly possible.

 The fact is, most of these amps are sold to people that just don't care or know any better, that'll never hear or see an Audio-GD or DIY M3. It's raw stupidity to charge that much for a "design" when we all know that these designs are not even very original.

 You can hate me for saying this, but everybody that sees inside an overpriced amp feels exactly what I am saying. Lots of companies live off their name and perceived value while manufacturers that actually care like Audio-GD are distrusted for being Chinese._

 


 Props. Great post.

 Ask, and you will receive... seek, and you will find!!


----------



## Zanth

Not really the thread to continue this. And although I like the RA-1 as you can tell, it is not my go to amp for my phones. But despite all that my point is that the MSRP $350 (if folks are charing anything above that well that isn't through a dealer for sure) and the point is also that it is made in the US and has a tight distribution network so different rules apply. This goes for folks that are more solidified in the market than folks who are all in house one to two man shops etc. As you may have followed, I have a Compass on the way and a Ref 1. Obviously I value what is being offered here. But to start trashing other companies' stuff because they don't compete is so not cool, when, given where those products are made (at reasonable wages) it is nearly impossible to compete. 

 More for us as fans though. Audio-gd stands to make a sweet purse from Head-fiers with these releases. No doubt their value is WAY over the top. And again, let it be noted, _I'm in the queue for a Compass and a Ref One_.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 But If you toss the $20 piece of wood into that Photo, it's still rough to say it's worth $350 on the low end to $450 on the high end. It's listed at Amazon right now for $425. The schematic is basically a CMOY schematic, very little difference. You are correct about Chinese labor that goes for less than $1 an hour in a large part of China. The overhead difference between Brooklyn and wherever in China is astronomical. There are no Unions, employee protections, OSHA, Workman's Comp, Unemployment Benefits, Trial Lawyers, or anything else there to drive prices up.

 So here's your choices. You can get a CMOY in Mahogany from Grado for $425 or get a Compass AND Blow $120 for Dinner for two at Morton's. Hmmmm....

 These guys are rough to compete against, no doubt. If we REALLY let China flood out Markets with no regulation, watch out! You should see what the Chinese are doing in the Hi end auto parts markets! Like Porsche Wastegates, Headers, Electronic, Fuel Injection Goodies, you name it. They can make very servicable copies of this stuff and there is no way to compete with theri prices. Great for the DIYers. 

 Enjoy this while you can. There is no telling where this economy will go from here. The econoomic war hasn't started yet! It's gearing up though.

 I know you're a big Grado Fan, but I'm not sure this is the Good Fight here with the RA-1 standing here with it's knickers down.


 ._


----------



## haloxt

I think this thread needs to be shut down and new threads made with well-defined topics, for a second I thought bloomsberg financial tv channel hijacked this thread.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I started with SUN/Nuetral. Then after feeling the lack of midrange switched to Earth/Nuetral. I think I like the Earth better overal. But the Earth has more burn in than SUN in this unit. I still really like the SUN in my EF1 lots of energy and dynamics.

 Still kinda puzzled about the DAC. This is one area Ive kinda avoided at head-fi just wanting to believe the DAC didnt make much difference once you got a pretty good one. My wallet is already crying!_

 

Hmm... The Sun may be more dynamic but I don't like its tonal balance. It really is a one-trick pony and not as flexible as the Moon or Earth. 

 If you favor midrange then the Earth and Moon would be better. Earth has a more forward midrange while the Moon's is not as forward but more expansive. Pick your poison!


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am interested in purchasing the audio-gd compass, but I have a few questions first if someone could answer them for me I’d be grateful.

 1) I intend to use the audio-gd compass like this will it work?

 IN
 -PC
 -Xbox 360

 OUT
 -Audioengine A5 (maybe w/ a sub)
 -Undecided headphone probably hd650_

 

Check the FAQ in my sig for the Compass. It explains the hook-up options, more or less. Basically, yes though.

  Quote:


 4) I listen mostly to instrumental music is this the right dac/amp combination for me. 
 

The right DAC for you would be a Reference 1. Seriously though, as you go up the DAC chain, you'd expect to get more natural sounding instruments. So, in answer, how much do you want to spend? If you want inexpensive, versatile, but still very good sounding for the money, you have the Compass.

 I've heard there are very good, natural-sounding DIY DACs for $400, and there's also the Audio-gd 19SE for under $500, but you're looking close to $1k for your rig, if you include decent cables.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edit: I should also take a moment to mention how easy the ordering process was with Kingwa. I emailed him at 1:00 AM (his time). And he walked me through the payment process with lightning fast response time - it was almost... frightening? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

He's only an hour behind me here, and I've had him reply when I've send emails around midnight my time. Crazy stuff.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But to start trashing other companies' stuff because they don't compete is so not cool, when, given where those products are made (at reasonable wages) it is nearly impossible to compete._

 

x2.


----------



## techfreakazoid

*Packaging*
 Alright, my Compass finally arrived and the thicker cardboard box that Kingwa is using seems to be good. No damage to the box either inside or out, and all the tape is intact suggesting Customs did not open the package. The box and the foam cushions are worth keeping if you need to transport the unit later on. The Compass is wrapped in plastic along with all the other cables.

*Build Quality*
 Initial impression is this mini-tank is an awe-inspiring piece of Chinese design and engineering! I ordered the exclusive power cable and there was no wrong power cable included. With the 'loose' Selector knob that a few Compass V2a owners have experienced, I checked the Selector knob and it feels connected. Maybe there is a tiny wiggle, but would not have interpreted as being loose if it wasn't noted. Volume knob feels fluid. All the lettering looks good and there are no chips. Other than the alignment of labels, the lettering looks fine and the whole symbol-font debate seems silly now. There's definitely a lot of character to the First-18 and V2a panels. The RCA jacks have that 24K gold orange tint to them and gives the Compass that 'this is high-quality stuff' appeal.

 Three things that I have to take a few points off on the out-of-box experience are: 1) the silver buttons looked used as they are scratched up, 2) Neutrik jack is dented on the top black surface, and 3) the front panel bottom left corner is dented.

*Internals*
 Next, I remove the six screws on top with the Allen key. I noticed the black paint is chipped on the top plate where the metal screws are in contact. I believe AudioPhewl suggested that plastic washers be used to mount the screws. The chipped paint is not visible when the screws are secured, but using rubber mounts or plastic washers should prevent the beautiful aluminum chassis from being damaged. The external side of the top plate is clean and free of scratches; however, the plate's internal side is a little scratched up. Removing the inside foam padding used to secure the OPA-Earth feels like tearing off a sticky marshmallow. Using Goo Gone, the residual white stuff and marker ink comes off easily. Good idea to have the square area silkscreened to save assembly time. The PCB layout, secured wires, and circuitry looks clean and well-organized.

*Preliminary Listen*
 Quick listen with Neutral jumper setting, OPA-Earth, Canare coaxial cable, and Monoprice optical cable. Using my X-Fi Platinum's digital outputs and foobar2K, did not find a noticeable difference between the coax or optical options. Flicking the rear Preamp switch to the On position, there is dead silence. Paired with my DT880s, the bass is tight and the soundstage is wide and deep. For those that listen to hip hop, R&B, freestyle, high BPM dance music, the Compass out-of-the-box has excellent speed and attack. I can only imagine the SQ will only improve with burn-in.

*OPA-Moon*
 I shut everything down and unplug the power cable to swap out the OPA-Earth for the OPA-Moon. Mount the Moon with the notch facing the rear panel and secured the ground wire. Hoping to be blown away by the wide soundstage, all I hear is audio in the right ear. Nothing is coming out of the left channel. I shut everything down and check to see if all the connections are secure. Same deal…no audio in the left driver. I shut everything down again and remount Earth and audio is restored in both channels. Has anyone had any issues with their OPA-Moon side orders? I requested a 15cm ground wire for my Moon in case I decided to stick with the Earth in the Compass; I could use the Moon as a backup option for my X-Fi Prelude.

*Conclusion*
 Despite the dents, scratches, and Moon issue, my Audio-gd experience has been very positive. I've been waiting since November when the Compass was in development and the painful wait was well worth it. Kingwa's got a winner here and his responsiveness and willingness to accept customer feedback is truly amazing. I'll be burning-in the unit and provide listening impressions along the way to audio heaven! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 =========
 Edit: Added Additional Observations, beyer DT880/250 Synergy, Movie / TV Audio Experience and Earth-Neutral jumper setting.


----------



## csroc

I have to say that dents and scratches sound like shipping or customs damage, regardless of how the tape looks. I just have trouble imagining that's the issue since most people have found absolutely nothing like that to be a problem with their Audio-gd products.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<<SNIP>> But to start trashing other companies' stuff because they don't compete is so not cool, when, given where those products are made (at reasonable wages) it is nearly impossible to compete. 

 ._

 


 You are of course referring to General Motors here...


 .


----------



## mlarn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Uhm wow, wowowowowow! I figured Id finally get around to my antsy fiddling. I went most of the night using Earth+Neutral. It sounded great, better than Earth+Soft 2. It was...more neutral! Sounded great. That wasnt the show stopper. I decided to burn in the Moon overnight so itll be warmed up for me by morning. For the hell of it I thought I would try the setting that most piqued my interest Moon+Bright. Wow, THIS is EXACTLY what Ive been looking for. The bass hits hard, but with definition, but the highs are completely compensated for now. Granted I havent heard the Moon+Neutral, but this is really the sort of sound Ive been searching for. Fast but still with impact and defined.

 This is my sweet spot configuration: Moon+Bright. Its accomplished the clearly defined things that I wanted to see in the HD650 to make them what I consider "perfect". I dont want to go to sleep but I know I have tooooo ;_;_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. I've done 100-150 hours burn-in of the Earth + Neutral combination and I also found it to dark with the HD650. So after reading your message I decided to give the bright setting a go and I agree that it seems to suit the Sennheisers very well. It's a good thing this setting was added to the current version of the Compass._

 

I wil have to give this a try. I have been burning my Compass constantly for almost a week now (plus the ~150 hours before it was shipped) and overall I am very impressed. I am using the Earth and Neutral combo, which sounds great overall, but the bass is a hair heavy for my taste with my Senn HD600's. It is not overwhelming at all but for my personal taste its just a touch much. I will try the Bright setting first, then see what the Moon sounds like after that. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Currawong

If you get a Compass with dents, blame customs for damaging it. 

 Also, if you EVER get a box delivered to your door that has seriously dented corners or obvious damage, such as a hole punched in the side, refuse to sign for the delivery, pointing out the damage.


----------



## mlarn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you get a Compass with dents, blame customs for damaging it. 

 Also, if you EVER get a box delivered to your door that has seriously dented corners or obvious damage, such as a hole punched in the side, refuse to sign for the delivery, pointing out the damage._

 

Seriously. This thing is, once again, built like a tank and it would take real effort to dent it. It had to have been dropped along the way.


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are of course referring to General Motors here...


 ._

 

Or AIG...are half-way dumb MBA's and VP's considered products?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to say that dents and scratches sound like shipping or customs damage, regardless of how the tape looks. I just have trouble imagining that's the issue since most people have found absolutely nothing like that to be a problem with their Audio-gd products._

 

My thoughts too. Certainly because all the damage seems to be on one side (front panel) and also all on the left side of that panel. Too much of a coincedence I think, it must have happened during transport.


----------



## Thundernuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by * Zanth* 
_<<SNIP>> But to start trashing other companies' stuff because they don't compete is so not cool, when, given where those products are made (at reasonable wages) it is nearly impossible to compete._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are of course referring to General Motors here..._

 

From now on, I will only be purchasing poor value, over-priced, poorly designed and poorly built products from western companies. 

 Any concern for perceived value for my hard earned pennies is now outweighed by a guilt-driven charitable concern for my under-privileged western brethren.


----------



## haloxt

I'll eat my own socks if your hard-earned pennies were earned in a more ethical manner.


----------



## Thundernuts

Would those be Chinese cotton, Chinese wool or Chinese polyester/cotton socks?


----------



## ttnl

hey guys, do you have any trouble communicate with Kingwa via email all day yesterday? I emailed him twice but no reply from him at all. It is strange because usually he is very good with email. Thanks.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttnl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys, do you have any trouble communicate with Kingwa via email all day yesterday? I emailed him twice but no reply from him at all. It is strange because usually he is very good with email. Thanks._

 

Did you get the automated reply message? Or nothing at all?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttnl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys, do you have any trouble communicate with Kingwa via email all day yesterday? I emailed him twice but no reply from him at all. It is strange because usually he is very good with email. Thanks._

 


 I think he's busy presently. I noticed he's a little slower than the Normal Kingwa response.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From now on, I will only be purchasing poor value, over-priced, poorly designed and poorly built products from western companies. 

 Any concern for perceived value for my hard earned pennies is now outweighed by a guilt-driven charitable concern for my under-privileged western brethren. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Patriots bring a tear to my eye!

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttnl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys, do you have any trouble communicate with Kingwa via email all day yesterday? I emailed him twice but no reply from him at all. It is strange because usually he is very good with email. Thanks._

 

Three reasons come to my mind :

 1) It did not reach him.

 2) There are other people that check the same mail box, sometimes he can unintentionally overlook a message if its already read before him, as it shows read message in his outlook.

 3) If it has anything to do with delivery status, he usually forwards the mail to Ms. Cherry for replying.

 Try resending the mail again today. This is all I can think from my personal experience.


----------



## Currawong

I'll bet Kingwa spends a crap-load of time answering emails. I try and avoid sending him email unnecessarily. I'm getting a fair few Compass questions via PM now, so I think I need to start reminding people to read the Compass FAQ, which will always be linked in my signature.


----------



## Dat_Dude

I emailed audio-gd this morning and immediately got the auto-response like always and then Cherry responded maybe 15 minutes later. I bet Kingwa is swamped and when Cherry isn't around he can't keep up with all the inquiries. I think they are getting boat loads (literally) of Compass orders.


----------



## csroc

It did sound like they have received quite a few Compass orders. I wonder when the final version will start shipping out. I had originally heard early April but these things can change.


----------



## oldschool

By the way, I will be sending Audio-Gd a black Neutrik plug to put in my copy


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, I will be sending Audio-Gd a black Neutrik plug to put in my copy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, there just had to be one who would actually do that...


----------



## theBigD

The more time I spend with the Compass, the more I like it. One word keeps comming to mind "Transparent". With the Earth in nuetral position, I am getting lots of midrange detail, and the sound is quite balanced.

 Figured out the thing about the DAC. Basically without the DAC I am listening to my soundcard (DAC plus lm4562), I kinda like the midrange push of the 4562 with my Denon headphone. With my akg 701 definently prefer the neutral presentation of the DAC.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It did sound like they have received quite a few Compass orders. I wonder when the final version will start shipping out. I had originally heard early April but these things can change._

 

Early April is what I was told by Cherry when I ordered mine at the end of last week.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, there just had to be one who would actually do that... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I have a black Neutrik. I had contemplated doing the same but I haven't looked in to shipping costs or anything else.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I emailed audio-gd this morning and immediately got the auto-response like always and then Cherry responded maybe 15 minutes later. I bet Kingwa is swamped and when Cherry isn't around he can't keep up with all the inquiries. I think they are getting boat loads (literally) of Compass orders._

 

Not only that the guy needs to sleep and eat like the rest of us every once in a while 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## skurge13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It did sound like they have received quite a few Compass orders. I wonder when the final version will start shipping out. I had originally heard early April but these things can change._

 

Wait...final version? I just ordered a Compass yesterday, is it a prototype version?


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a black Neutrik. I had contemplated doing the same but I haven't looked in to shipping costs or anything else._

 

Solder them yourself!

 It's a toss up, black does look better. But for sound, not sure make a difference. The Contacts in the silver are silver plated, the black are gold plated. Think would make a difference in sound, probably not. And for those like myself who have more than one headphone, switching back and forth...ironically the silver one may be more durable since silver is harder than gold. Both anti-corrosive. Oh hell, I might DIY also in the future, who knows.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skurge13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait...final version? I just ordered a Compass yesterday, is it a prototype version?_

 

No, just final versions now. (You missed out on the unique post-prototype. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) No, seriously, just fully equipped final versions are being sold now.


----------



## skurge13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, just final versions now. (You missed out on the unique post-prototype. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) No, seriously, just fully equipped final versions are being sold now._

 

Phew, thanks, got scared for a second there. Thought I'd paid a boatload of money for something unfinished!


----------



## mbd2884

So am I the only one who decided to keep the prototype? Will be changing resistors to lower gain, possibly add the black neutrik jack.

 Remove the resistors where the X is. Snip them out. Then replace with new resistors which you can get from Kingwa.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skurge13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait...final version? I just ordered a Compass yesterday, is it a prototype version?_

 

Yup as answered we're entering the third batch and these will be the "final" Compass design both in and out as far as I understand and would expect. If for some reason Kingwa changes something I doubt it will be as drastic as the changes suggested by myself and the other Compass-18 or during the design revision.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Solder them yourself!_

 

Well silver does corrode, but I'm not really concerned that there'd be a big difference in performance, I just think the black one would look nicer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I do feel like changing it then I will, but right now I'm just not sure I feel like dealing with it either way.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So am I the only one who decided to keep the prototype? Will be changing resistors to lower gain, possibly add the black neutrik jack.

 Remove the resistors where the X is. Snip them out. Then replace with new resistors which you can get from Kingwa.




_

 

I'm keeping my original/test/prototype Compass but I'm also getting a final version with the next exterior design.


----------



## Alai

I noticed the back has two RCA sets of output. Does that mean we can use this for 2.1 (yes, sub included) AND headphones?

 Also, does the volume control stop working if we disconnect DAC from amp?


----------



## Alai

I noticed the back has two RCA sets of output. Does that mean we can use this for 2.1 (yes, sub included) AND headphones?

 Also, does the volume control stop working if we disconnect DAC from amp?


----------



## Currawong

Alai: Please read the FAQ in my sig. Thanks.


----------



## Sganzerla

I'll keep my unit here too.

 How many of the first 18 "testers" has more than 900 hours on Compass?

 There was an incredible change happening after this time that make me feel shame for posting some of my impressions a while ago.

 I can say if people are happy now with K701 and Compass (200-300 hours)... wait some time to see what I'm talking about.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'm keeping mine as well mbd and csroc ! I have some plans for my test unit that I will get around to when I have some free time.

 Sganzerla I have well over 900 hours on mine and I agree with your views. The Compass needs major burn in time before it's done changing (all for the better obviously 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So am I the only one who decided to keep the prototype? Will be changing resistors to lower gain, possibly add the black neutrik jack.

 Remove the resistors where the X is. Snip them out. Then replace with new resistors which you can get from Kingwa.




_

 

I'm keeping mine. Am supremely happy with it...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll keep my unit here too.

 How many of the first 18 "testers" has more than 900 hours on Compass?

 There was an incredible change happening after this time that make me feel shame for posting some of my impressions a while ago.

 I can say if people are happy now with K701 and Compass (200-300 hours)... wait some time to see what I'm talking about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've no idea how many hours mine has now. It had continual music up to around 5-600 hours(not including kingwa's hours), and a lot of use since then.

 It's sounded brilliant from the start, though it really started to blossom from around 300 onwards. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Toe Tag

6000 song .flac library on my media server courtesy of demonoid and what, served over WLAN, into $210 Dell Mini 9 hacked to run OS X 10.5.6, out via $6.80 FiiO, into Sennheiser HD650's... 

 Awaiting Compass, which I think will do a better job than the D/A in the mini and the FiiO amp... 

 Laying in bed listening, waiting for space cakes to kick in...


----------



## oldschool

Here's some info on the black Neutrik plug, as people keep asking:

 It cost me about EUR 6 to order it from local distributor in my coutry.

 If you can't find it locally, try searching online retailers. These two seem OK for Europe:

Your one stop shop for audio, video & lighting solutions - Connectors :: Jacks :: Locking 1/4" :: Neutrik NJ3FP6C-B Locking 1/4" phone jack with D-size shell, black metal housing and gold contacts

43-266 NEUTRIK NJ3FP6C-B JACK SOCKET Panel

 The part number is:
*NJ3FP6C-B* (black colour, gold contacts)
*NJ3FP6C-BAG* (black colour, silver contacts)

 Actually I got the one with silver contacts, as they didn't have the gold one. But that's not big deal anyway.

 Don't know about how it will affect delivery time of the Compass. I just sent the jack to Audio-Gd today and I hope it reaches them fast.


----------



## Thundernuts

Looks like they include the 4% PayPal fee in all their quotes, so there is no need to add 4% extra on top of the total.

 From Audio-GD:
  Quote:


 Dear Sir,
 Compass price is USD258.
 OPA-moon price is USD20.
 OPA-sun price is USD20.
 Canare digital coax cable price is USD14.
 Shipping cost is USD41 by EMS .
 The paypal handling charge is 4%.
 Total price is USD367.12.
 Our Paypal accounts is
audio-gd@vip.163.com
 By the way, please give us your detail address and phone number.
 Best regards,
 Cherry


----------



## drummer1985

i have ordered this amp, hopefully it can drive all my headphones nicely.haha


----------



## Alai

I still would like to know if you can connect a 2.1 speaker setup to this...


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still would like to know if you can connect a 2.1 speaker setup to this..._

 

Try reading the first page which explains in detail what you can do with the Compass. There are so may links, reviews and information about this Compass. In fact I'd say for a new product, Compass there is more information about the Compass here than any other new Amp discussed on this forum. And yes, your question has been spammed many times before you have also. Spamming your questions is not helpful to you or anyone.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still would like to know if you can connect a 2.1 speaker setup to this..._

 

You could, the compass has a preamp out so just connect that to your power amp.


----------



## ttnl

hi guys, is there any way we can bypass the DAC and use the amp only when playing music? I think the source is more important than the amp, so I want to use a better DAC and use Compass as an amp only.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttnl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi guys, is there any way we can bypass the DAC and use the amp only when playing music? I think the source is more important than the amp, so I want to use a better DAC and use Compass as an amp only._

 

why not just buy a dedicated amp?


----------



## thelsuman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Early April is what I was told by Cherry when I ordered mine at the end of last week._

 






 I had thought the final versions were going to be shipped before the end of March. Sigh...

 Is it just me, or is running HD650's through a cmoy/tin can amp a recipe for dissapointment?

 ...and for my next trick...I will now attempt to power this Pontiac GTO using only a 9 volt battery...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still would like to know if you can connect a 2.1 speaker setup to this..._

 

Hi Alai,
 That sounds like a Popular sport in South Florida!

 If your speakers are amped, just take the DAC out to you spkrs and you're good to go. Are your spkrs amped/active?

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 I had thought the final versions were going to be shipped before the end of March. Sigh...

 Is it just me, or is running HD650's through a cmoy/tin can amp a recipe for dissapointment?

 ...and for my next trick...I will now attempt to power this Pontiac GTO using only a 9 volt battery..._

 









 .


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why not just buy a dedicated amp?_

 

I agree. I just advise you read more in depth about the Compass and DAC and realize how much you will be spending to get a significant improvement. Currawong, Peete, csroc and Drosera all compared the Compass DAC to some hefty competition at $1000+ range.


----------



## Alai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try reading the first page which explains in detail what you can do with the Compass. There are so may links, reviews and information about this Compass. In fact I'd say for a new product, Compass there is more information about the Compass here than any other new Amp discussed on this forum. And yes, your question has been spammed many times before you have also. Spamming your questions is not helpful to you or anyone._

 

Try searching this thread for "speakers" and let me know what you find. If you find more than a couple posts that pertain to my question, then I agree that I am taking away from the thread. But I have only been able to find people talking about the possibility maybe, not actual people using it.

 Also, I have another question. With the DAC and the amp separated, we need to use the volume control of whatever amp or other preamp is used. However, if the DAC and amplifier are connected and we are using the amp as a preamp to speakers, can we use the volume control of the Compass?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, I have another question. With the DAC and the amp separated, we need to use the volume control of whatever amp or other preamp is used. However, if the DAC and amplifier are connected and we are using the amp as a preamp to speakers, can we use the volume control of the Compass?_

 

That one is definitely covered in the product description & FAQ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Compass does indeed have a mode that allows it to act as a preamp (all versions since the first 18 test models of which a few were modified to have preamp capabilities).


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That one is definitely covered in the product description & FAQ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Compass does indeed have a mode that allows it to act as a preamp (all versions since the first 18 test models of which a few were modified to have preamp capabilities)._

 

The preamp is one of the reasons I ordered a Compass. Based on the website, there is a switch to turn the preamp on or off. When the preamp is on, the headphone out is silent. I plan to run a pair of RCA cables from the preamp out on the Compass to the line in (also RCA) on my Audioengine A2 speakers. When I want to listen to headphones, I turn the preamp off. When I want to listen to speakers I turn the preamp on and there is no need to unplug the headphones.

 This is how it works based on what I read on the website and recent (within the past week) posts in this thread.


----------



## Alai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That one is definitely covered in the product description & FAQ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The Compass does indeed have a mode that allows it to act as a preamp (all versions since the first 18 test models of which a few were modified to have preamp capabilities)._

 

Ok, I just want to make sure people aren't confusing PREAMP with DAC because alot of people, even so-called audiophiles, mix them up. The button in front toggles connection between amp and DAC. With just DAC, there is no volume control, correct? With them connected together, they act as preamp and I can control volume through the Compass while using an amplifier for my speakers, yes?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I just want to make sure people aren't confusing PREAMP with DAC because alot of people, even so-called audiophiles, mix them up. The button in front toggles connection between amp and DAC. With just DAC, there is no volume control, correct? With them connected together, they act as preamp and I can control volume through the Compass while using an amplifier for my speakers, yes?_

 

If your amplifier has a vol control, you woudl use DAC out, if it is just an amp and needs preamp vol control you would use the preamp outs. 

 YES to all your questions basically. It will do it!


----------



## Alai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If your amplifier has a vol control, you woudl use DAC out, if it is just an amp and needs preamp vol control you would use the preamp outs. 

 YES to all your questions basically. It will do it!_

 

Sweet! Thank God someone actually said yes. Lol. Now to scrounge up some coin to get my own Compass...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I just want to make sure people aren't confusing PREAMP with DAC because alot of people, even so-called audiophiles, mix them up. The button in front toggles connection between amp and DAC. With just DAC, there is no volume control, correct? With them connected together, they act as preamp and I can control volume through the Compass while using an amplifier for my speakers, yes?_

 

What Les says is correct, but keep in mind DAC out and Preamp out, may not sound the same, as with DAC out, you are getting signals directly from the DAC section of Compass, while on Preamp out, it goes through HP amp section of the Compass.. Correct me if I am wrong guys..


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I just want to make sure people aren't confusing PREAMP with DAC because alot of people, even so-called audiophiles, mix them up. The button in front toggles connection between amp and DAC. With just DAC, there is no volume control, correct? With them connected together, they act as preamp and I can control volume through the Compass while using an amplifier for my speakers, yes?_

 

I guess people could confuse those but DAC out should be standard line level volume whereas the preamp out should have variable levels since preamp implies volume control.

 With the Amp & DAC separated (bypass or super mode) the outputs on the rear of the Compass labeled DAC out" will output an analog signal with _no_ volume control. If you flip the preamp switch to on and then use the "preamp" outputs on the back of the Compass it will output a volume controlled signal.

 So with regard to your questions the answer is yes.

 I don't know off the top of my head if DAC out is active when preamp out is on, or when the amp and DAC are connected internally (bypass or super mode are off).


----------



## haloxt

Anyone else notice big changes at uh.. 900 hours? I got some new toys since I got the compass so I can't really comment on burn-in anymore. But if the compass really does change dramatically at 900 hours I have to fix my posts about burn-in of other equipment. And please, no posts about how it's unlikely things will change significantly at 1000 hours or how we're delusional, just a yes or no will suffice.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Thanks for that csroc. The FAQ is amazing but comments that "dumb it down" for newbies like myself are much appreciated.

 That being said, mine should be shipped out within a few days and I can't friggin wait!


----------



## Hot Pixel

I myself found the last few posts about using speakers in conjunction with the Compass very informative. So despite your annoyances, the persistence actually paid off and helped some newbies as well.


----------



## Tyson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone else notice big changes at uh.. 900 hours? I got some new toys since I got the compass so I can't really comment on burn-in anymore. But if the compass really does change dramatically at 900 hours I have to fix my posts about burn-in of other equipment. And please, no posts about how it's unlikely things will change significantly at 1000 hours or how we're delusional, just a yes or no will suffice._

 

Yes, based on my experience with the C3 SE, DAC8, and C1.


----------



## Sganzerla

Haloxt, my opamp reached home, with damaged letter, but everything is working and I'm listening trought it.
 I would like to thank you here for your time and willingness.

 I like what I'm hearing except the harshness, its soundstage sounds deeper than wider, let's see what happens. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 About burn in, I'm just imagining what people will write after they experience what happens after this long time.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I myself found the last few posts about using speakers in conjunction with the Compass very informative. So despite your annoyances, the persistence actually paid off and helped some newbies as well._

 

That is after all the point of a forum, ehhh? 

 The Idea of an Outboard DAC is new to some people, then a Combo box that can split I/O like the Compass confuses things. Then the Audio-GD site could be worded Clearer for an English speaking audience. Then part of the audience here has to take a site in English translated from Chinese, and then take that poor English translation into Dutch, Russian, French, or whatever is the Native language of the reader.

 How could that be confusing?

 .


----------



## theBigD

Ok, spent a little more time listening to compass. Went to the SUN that I have that is burnt in and I like it better with the Denon d7000. More dynamics and improved mid-range. Ive switched jumpers between bright, neutral and soft 1, I think nuetral is the only one I would use. The bright and soft modes remind me too much of dsp which i never liked. The SUN, Moon, and Earth are all great and never seem to make the music sound wrong to me just different flavors of sound. I think the SUN and Earth are my favorite so far.

 Had to go back and look over some reviews today to kinda sort out my feelings about the DAC and my soundcard. Looking over Peetes review of the DAC, he says the DAC changes between 250 and 300 hrs, this DAC is on the cusp of 250 so it will be interesting what happens 2 to 3 days from now with this. I am warming to the more nuetral sound of this, less of a midrange push and edge than my soundcard.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tyson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, based on my experience with the C3 SE, DAC8, and C1._

 

Yikes, I guess I should expect some more changes on the C-2C too


----------



## Currawong

This reminds me, I need to put something in the FAQ about the pre-amp switch.

 Tyson, my Ref 1 arrived yesterday. I'm rather scared of how I'm going to find words after 350+ hours to better describe something that is as good as completely invisible.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tyson, my Ref 1 arrived yesterday. I'm rather scared of how I'm going to find words after 350+ hours to better describe something that is as good as completely invisible._

 

You saying the ref 1 sounds completely invisible right now? Cool


----------



## gadenp

The compass might be all great and I hope it is.

 But after waiting since 20th Feb till now for my MO order to arrive. 

 And better yet to find out that we are being treated badly with many others that order much later then us getting their compass already, my trust and patience with AudioGD is really wearing thin.

 Talk about bad business practices. I hope with this posting that AudioGD can buck up. 

 Frankly I just want to GET THE COMPASS I paid for and not read posts after posts of others getting it, loving it and having a great time with it, that ordered later then us.

 MO details here: VR-Zone IT & Lifestyle Forum!

 Regards.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drummer1985* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have ordered this amp, hopefully it can drive all my headphones nicely.haha_

 

I hate to say this but the 240's are a far cry from good ( I have a pair and yes the Compass drives them very well, the 600 ohm version from the 80's) compared to the ones I have now (HD650's). If your an AKG man get yourself a set of used 701's (or new)...you'll be darn glad you did. The Compass works very well with the 650/701 cans and has scads of grunt for driving either properly. It's not a reference level amp of course but it's very good for it's class and competition.

 Of course the 240's will sound good you'll just not be getting the most you can from the Compass using just the 240's.

 IMO at least. 

 I would have to say the 650's are several orders of magnitude better than the 240's in every conceivable area of sound reproduction. The difference is that marked. Again IMO.

 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

gadenp, no one has received the final version yet. You guys will likely be some of the first to receive the final version. The ones people got before you were v2a, v2b (final version) is what your mass order is.


----------



## inukage0029

so heres a quick headphone synergy question:

 for a dorm room (so closed), and under $400, what headphones would tend to have the best synergy to the Compass? im doing a complete upgrade of my "dorm" setup and want to get some great closed phones that will really show off the new amp/DAC. What i really want is a pair of Senn 650s, but they let in too much sound for the dorm room and let out too much sound for library studying, so that basically puts them in a box under my bed for 90% of my listening.

 and thanks again for everyone who brought this project to completion!


----------



## inukage0029

whoops, double post


----------



## sonicserve

I also have AudioEngine speakers, A5. Will the audiogd DAC improve the sound quality? I am using Musiland MD-10 right now but I barely notice any difference between with a DAC and without a DAC.

 My configurations is from Laptop->Apple Airport Express->Musiland MD10->AudioEngine A5.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The preamp is one of the reasons I ordered a Compass. Based on the website, there is a switch to turn the preamp on or off. When the preamp is on, the headphone out is silent. I plan to run a pair of RCA cables from the preamp out on the Compass to the line in (also RCA) on my Audioengine A2 speakers. When I want to listen to headphones, I turn the preamp off. When I want to listen to speakers I turn the preamp on and there is no need to unplug the headphones.

 This is how it works based on what I read on the website and recent (within the past week) posts in this thread._


----------



## inukage0029

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sonicserve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also have AudioEngine speakers, A5. Will the audiogd DAC improve the sound quality? I am using Musiland MD-10 right now but I barely notice any difference between with a DAC and without a DAC.

 My configurations is from Laptop->Apple Airport Express->Musiland MD10->AudioEngine A5._

 

from what i know of all those components (The A5s being the only item i have any experience with) you will probably get a decent boost from the quality of the Compass DAC. However, if your setup is not showing a noticable difference between an external DAC and your laptops soundcard, you either have a great internal SC or your setup is lacking in another area. 

 basically, if i was personally running what you are currently using, i would probably upgrade the DAC first, but likely you just need higher quality music (lossless) or better speakers to really show off your gear


----------



## Aleatoris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gadenp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The compass might be all great and I hope it is.

 But after waiting since 20th Feb till now for my MO order to arrive. 

 And better yet to find out that we are being treated badly with many others that order much later then us getting their compass already, my trust and patience with AudioGD is really wearing thin.

 Talk about bad business practices. I hope with this posting that AudioGD can buck up. 

 Frankly I just want to GET THE COMPASS I paid for and not read posts after posts of others getting it, loving it and having a great time with it, that ordered later then us.

 MO details here: VR-Zone IT & Lifestyle Forum!

 Regards._

 

1. We can't read that outside link without registering. I hate registering for things.

 2. you obviously have not read much of the thread. 
 18 compasses were shipped out sometime late last year for testing and feedback. after glowing reviews, 30 revised compasses were made. These are what people are receiving right now. you probably had to order back in December to get one of the 30. Every order after that is for the final version. Which is to be shipped on late march/early april.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try searching this thread for "speakers" and let me know what you find. If you find more than a couple posts that pertain to my question, then I agree that I am taking away from the thread. But I have only been able to find people talking about the possibility maybe, not actual people using it.

 Also, I have another question. With the DAC and the amp separated, we need to use the volume control of whatever amp or other preamp is used. However, if the DAC and amplifier are connected and we are using the amp as a preamp to speakers, can we use the volume control of the Compass?_

 

All of my review posted thus far was spent ( Part III, still pending, as a headphone amp) using the Compass with a speaker system, a fairly decent system I'd like to think.

 Just go read the sections pertinent to your query. 

 Most info that you seek is actually on post no 1 showing links etc...Curra has spent time and effort making this info available and always up to date....maybe there should be an FAQ on the FAQ ?

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aleatoris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1. We can't read that outside link without registering. I hate registering for things.

 2. you obviously have not read much of the thread. 
 18 compasses were shipped out sometime late last year for testing and feedback. after glowing reviews, 30 revised compasses were made. These are what people are receiving right now. you probably had to order back in December to get one of the 30. Every order after that is for the final version. Which is to be shipped on late march/early april._

 

Not true, look again. I read the whole thing, didn't register. Not much there though.

 .


----------



## Aleatoris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not true, look again. I read the whole thing, didn't register. Not much there though.

 ._

 

My bad, I am a retard. I obviously cannot tell the difference between one of those agreement things and a registration form.


----------



## mbd2884

That thread was boring... It's not Kingwa's fault if they don't know how to order the Compass or know how to READ. Kingwa has been very clear and prompt in updating his website on the Compass revisions, Compass availability, and estimated date of shipment.

 And then coming to Head-Fi to complain...awesome. Another person to add to the ignore list...


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gadenp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The compass might be all great and I hope it is.

 But after waiting since 20th Feb till now for my MO order to arrive. 

 And better yet to find out that we are being treated badly with many others that order much later then us getting their compass already, my trust and patience with AudioGD is really wearing thin.

 Talk about bad business practices. I hope with this posting that AudioGD can buck up. 

 Frankly I just want to GET THE COMPASS I paid for and not read posts after posts of others getting it, loving it and having a great time with it, that ordered later then us.

 MO details here: VR-Zone IT & Lifestyle Forum!

 Regards._

 

Sounds like you guys are a little confused, understandable since most of the news and updates relating to the Compass occur here.

 The 18 test Compasses were received by those that bought them (myself included) in late January. In fact I committed to purchasing one on the 11th of January. 

 No more Compasses were shipped out until I believe towards the end of February and they were the same external enclosure (plus some holes for the preamp out and switches on the rear added by Kingwa's staff) with the upgraded internals. The final Compass is not being shipped yet. I imagine they only finally received full batches of the enclosures just recently.

 Anyone receiving something recently has received one of the 30 v2a Compasses as so many people are calling them and probably purchased them quite a while go. 

 If your MO winds up including some of the 30 V2a Compasses and the rest are V2b then you will see delays as those haven't shipped to _anyone_ yet afaik. So far I don't see any reason to blame Kingwa or Audio-gd for doing anything, you guys have to realize what kind of situation you're getting involved in here with the MO from a small company with a lot of other orders suddenly piling on for a new product that wasn't even 100% ready when you ordered.

 Hopefully they can ship yours soon though! The absolute soonest the V2b could ship to you is "early April" and that's all I know about expected ship dates. If that's the case it usually takes a week to arrive at its destination.


----------



## WC Annihilus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gadenp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The compass might be all great and I hope it is.

 But after waiting since 20th Feb till now for my MO order to arrive. 

 And better yet to find out that we are being treated badly with many others that order much later then us getting their compass already, my trust and patience with AudioGD is really wearing thin.

 Talk about bad business practices. I hope with this posting that AudioGD can buck up. 

 Frankly I just want to GET THE COMPASS I paid for and not read posts after posts of others getting it, loving it and having a great time with it, that ordered later then us.

 MO details here: VR-Zone IT & Lifestyle Forum!

 Regards._

 

As Aleatoris mentioned, the Compasses that have been shipped out were the V2As. After a little searching, the set of 30 available of those were sold out by February 22nd, which means they likely ordered before you. Considering your MO ended on the 20th and that there were 14 orders in it, the chances of you having made it in those 30 are quite slim. Expect your order to go out early April

 Edit: mmm, people posting at the same time


----------



## Currawong

I just posted a reply there. I think they aren't used to being patient.


----------



## Currawong

Doh, silly quick reply posting twice for me. I might have to add some stuff to the FAQ about how long it takes to order stuff.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just posted a reply there. I think they aren't used to being patient. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

11 minute double post... most impressive!


----------



## Alai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All of my review posted thus far was spent ( Part III, still pending, as a headphone amp) using the Compass with a speaker system, a fairly decent system I'd like to think.

 Just go read the sections pertinent to your query. 

 Most info that you seek is actually on post no 1 showing links etc...Curra has spent time and effort making this info available and always up to date....maybe there should be an FAQ on the FAQ ?

 Peete._

 

As I mentioned on the posts after the one you quoted, I just wanted to be clear that preamp feature and DAC only feature weren't confused with each other because many audiophiles have a very broad definition of DAC. There are quite a few who think a preamp, because it requires an amplifier, is just the DAC.

 Yes the information was posted that the Compass could function as a preamp, but I just wanted a confirmation that there was no human error involved in the information posted. Better safe than sorry, imo, especially on a purchase from a manufacturer in a different country and across the ocean.

 As for your review, well, I wasn't about to read through some ten reviews when one person could take 10 seconds to say "yes". I already read some of the intial reviews by Currawong and others. Didn't really want to read more since I was already convinced that I wanted the Compass if the preamp function was fully integrated.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, spent a little more time listening to compass. Went to the SUN that I have that is burnt in and I like it better with the Denon d7000. More dynamics and improved mid-range. Ive switched jumpers between bright, neutral and soft 1, I think nuetral is the only one I would use. The bright and soft modes remind me too much of dsp which i never liked. The SUN, Moon, and Earth are all great and never seem to make the music sound wrong to me just different flavors of sound. I think the SUN and Earth are my favorite so far.

 Had to go back and look over some reviews today to kinda sort out my feelings about the DAC and my soundcard. Looking over Peetes review of the DAC, he says the DAC changes between 250 and 300 hrs, this DAC is on the cusp of 250 so it will be interesting what happens 2 to 3 days from now with this. I am warming to the more nuetral sound of this, less of a midrange push and edge than my soundcard._

 

Interesting. I agree with the jumper setting but I never really like the Sun with my modded D2000 as I much prefer the more tonally-balanced Moon and Earth. Even Kingwa himself didn't recommend the Sun for me to go with the D2000 when I asked for his opinion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Compass does sound transparent and neutral so I guess it's going to take some time to get used to. I read your observation in that other thread about how it stacks against the EF1. Does your impression still stand now?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I mentioned on the posts after the one you quoted, I just wanted to be clear that preamp feature and DAC only feature weren't confused with each other because many audiophiles have a very broad definition of DAC. There are quite a few who think a preamp, because it requires an amplifier, is just the DAC._

 

Where on earth are you getting this from? Who are these "audiophiles" you are speaking of?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As for your review, well, I wasn't about to read through some ten reviews when one person could take 10 seconds to say "yes". I already read some of the intial reviews by Currawong and others. Didn't really want to read more since I was already convinced that I wanted the Compass if the preamp function was fully integrated._

 

Sorry, it still shows your laziness. There's a lot of information out there, and yes, it might take little effort to find it. That's a property of a (large) forum such as this, but there are plenty of search functions available. And if you can't find it, I'm sure people here will help if you at least show you've made the effort. When you do this, you can probably ask a more specific question than the one you posted too.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just posted a reply there. I think they aren't used to being patient. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Very true, They had ordered the Final and NOT the Upgraded version of Compass, which is due to be shipped early April, guess there is always a probability for miscommunication when it comes to mass orders..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


 Where on earth are you getting this from? Who are these "audiophiles" you are speaking of? 
 

Me too want to know...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I mentioned on the posts after the one you quoted, I just wanted to be clear that preamp feature and DAC only feature weren't confused with each other because many audiophiles have a very broad definition of DAC. There are quite a few who think a preamp, because it requires an amplifier, is just the DAC.

 Yes the information was posted that the Compass could function as a preamp, but I just wanted a confirmation that there was no human error involved in the information posted. Better safe than sorry, imo, especially on a purchase from a manufacturer in a different country and across the ocean.

 As for your review, well, I wasn't about to read through some ten reviews when one person could take 10 seconds to say "yes". I already read some of the intial reviews by Currawong and others. Didn't really want to read more since I was already convinced that I wanted the Compass if the preamp function was fully integrated._

 







 Holy cow......

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Holy cow......

 Peete._

 

I know. I don't think there's a cure for it either.


----------



## theBigD

I need to do some more formalized listening between the ef1 and the compass. But using the earth in both the compass and ef1 along with rca cleartop in ef1, here are some general impressions. The soundsignature is similiar when using equivalent hdams. The ef1 has more resonance in the bass register, you can tell the difference between bass guitar and drum with the ef1. the compass is cleaner, clearer like a window into the midrange on one recording i could hear people talking in the audience during a live recording and with the ef1 it was so muffled i could barely hear that it was live. the highs in the ef1 are a bit splashy compared with the compass. also i found the soundstage to be a bit confined compared with the compass.

 i kept thinking of the word vieled with the ef1.

 and i kept thinking transparent with the compass.

 and this was throught the compass dac. 

 also i have not used the stock op amp yet and kinda want to do a comparo with this. my suspicion is stock will have deeper bass with more reverb and less clarity and soundstage then the earth, as this is why i pretty much abandoned the stock configuration in the first place.

 Headphones i used were the d7000.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Holy cow......

 Peete._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know. I don't think there's a cure for it either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

/me inserts laugh track


----------



## gadenp

Dear All,
 Thanks for the clarifications. And for the efforts and time put into helping me with this issue.

 Since the misunderstanding is on my part, I would like to apologise for it

 Thanks for helping me understand what is going on.
 Regards


----------



## Alai

I don't have names of people lol. I just know, while surfing audio forums like here, Home Theater, AVS, Audioholics, etc. there are people that get DAC confused with other things like preamp or receiver.

 Actually, while posting this, I just remembered an discussion I had with a guy who seemed confused on the concept of DAC chip and DAC box. He seems to equate the box that holds the DAC as the DAC chip itself. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/hd...5/#post5556788

 Anyhow, I just was being an idiot and didn't search "preamp" itself. I been searching volume or speaker or rca output. Stupid me. L2SEARCH


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gadenp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dear All,
 Thanks for the clarifications. And for the efforts and time put into helping me with this issue.

 Since the misunderstanding is on my part, I would like to apologise for it

 Thanks for helping me understand what is going on.
 Regards_

 

Dont apologize so much to us as to Kingwa, especially if you emailed him anything unpleasant.


----------



## dBs

Ok, pretty big update to make on my part. 10days*24hours+7hours+150hours=398hours of burn in. I swapped in the Moon HDAM at around the 280 hours mark and the soundstage was a fair bit better. I wouldnt say it was an amazingly drastic change but it was there.

 Since the last update, heck since yesterday, the soundstage has exploded. The Moon+Soft 2 setting that Im currently using (continuing to burn in Compass unit itself along with Moon) has a huge soundstage now in the Akira sound track. I listened to this soundtrack yesterday and the soundstage wasnt nearly this expansive. I dont know whether to attribute this drastic change to the Moon or the Compass itself. The only way I would know is by swapping in the Earth again and seeing if I get a sense of greater soundstage. I wont have time to do that until tomorrow or this weekend.

 The bass has become less boomy and tighter. I need to listen more to determine the legitimacy of this assessment as I HAD to post about the soundstage change since it was so drastic and positive.


----------



## halcyon725

Finally decided to order the Compass along with a OPA-Moon after following this thread since about the 100 page mark.

 Thanks again guys, especially Curra, Peete, Drosera, csroc (forgive me if I forgot anyone) for being patient with us newbies and posting a surplus of information on the unit.

 I was considering the DAC-19SE and C2C combo, but I'm just not ready to spend $800 right now. Baby steps...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *halcyon725* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was considering the DAC-19SE and C2C combo, but I'm just not ready to spend $800 right now. Baby steps..._

 

I'll soon be going into that setup and since I already have the Compass, maybe soon I can give you a preview on your next "Baby steps" ..


----------



## PPkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, pretty big update to make on my part. 10days*24hours+7hours+150hours=398hours of burn in. I swapped in the Moon HDAM at around the 280 hours mark and the soundstage was a fair bit better. I wouldnt say it was an amazingly drastic change but it was there.

 Since the last update, heck since yesterday, the soundstage has exploded. The Moon+Soft 2 setting that Im currently using (continuing to burn in Compass unit itself along with Moon) has a huge soundstage now in the Akira sound track. I listened to this soundtrack yesterday and the soundstage wasnt nearly this expansive. I dont know whether to attribute this drastic change to the Moon or the Compass itself. The only way I would know is by swapping in the Earth again and seeing if I get a sense of greater soundstage. I wont have time to do that until tomorrow or this weekend.

 The bass has become less boomy and tighter. I need to listen more to determine the legitimacy of this assessment as I HAD to post about the soundstage change since it was so drastic and positive._

 

which cans are you using for the above impression? i own a hd650.. should i start with moon first or earth ?


----------



## Hot Pixel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is after all the point of a forum, ehhh? 

 The Idea of an Outboard DAC is new to some people, then a Combo box that can split I/O like the Compass confuses things. Then the Audio-GD site could be worded Clearer for an English speaking audience. Then part of the audience here has to take a site in English translated from Chinese, and then take that poor English translation into Dutch, Russian, French, or whatever is the Native language of the reader.

 How could that be confusing?

 ._

 

Often times, sarcasm is wasted on the internet, since it's inherently broken (to quote XKCD: 'try posting a youtube comment that's so stupid people must realise you've been joking. Hint: It's impossible').
 However: this made me chuckle, and made me feel like less of a noob.
 On another -somewhat related- note: I kind of feel guilty though: I've already ordered the Compass, but I don't know a whole lot about it. Are there people out there who share my inexperience and are also kind of anxious?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've already ordered the Compass, but I don't know a whole lot about it. Are there people out there who share my inexperience and are also kind of anxious?_

 

As far as me goes, I think anxiousness will always be there, whether you are noob or an expert, nothing helps, the specs or the language in which it is described, unless you have the thing in front of you and hear it for yourself.. but then concerns will arise only if you start to hear negative things from those already using, and in all this 315 pages dedicated to Compass, I dont see many say anything too negative about it, on the contrary I hear praises..


----------



## ExtraNice

I'm a bit confused about this paypal stuff... how do I pay?

 Do I use the "send money" tab and 
 TO: "http://audio-gd@vip.163.com/"
 AMOUNT: *the amount I need to pay*
 and in the 'send money for" I select : "Goods".


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm a bit confused about this paypal stuff... how do I pay?

 Do I use the "send money" tab and 
 TO: "http://audio-gd@vip.163.com/"
 AMOUNT: *the amount I need to pay*
 and in the 'send money for" I select : "Goods"._

 

You pay to : audio-gd@vip.163.com

 Amount : what you need to Pay

 Yes you can select for goods, and then you will have to confirm the shipping address.

 In the message box, mention the voltage, telephone number and the type of power cable you require.

 Hope this helps..


----------



## ExtraNice

oh! So I don't send a separate email about the voltage, etc.? I just attach it to the payment?

 Thanks for the info!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh! So I don't send a separate email about the voltage, etc.? I just attach it to the payment?

 Thanks for the info!_

 

Yes, just write it on the Paypal message box.. dont forget about the power cable type you require too..


----------



## ExtraNice

I won't! I'm a good boy!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I won't! I'm a good boy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You will be a better boy if you dont press the "send" button twice !!.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, I guess now starts your anticipation and then.... enjoy !..


----------



## K3cT

I'm using the Earth module now since the Moon has almost 300 hours already on it and now I am conflicted. 

 The Earth has a less muddy sound because the treble is not as smooth as the Moon and I do dig its more forward midrange compared to the Moon. I do however miss the latter's soundstage though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Argh, which module should I use?


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I mentioned on the posts after the one you quoted, I just wanted to be clear that preamp feature and DAC only feature weren't confused with each other because many audiophiles have a very broad definition of DAC. There are quite a few who think a preamp, because it requires an amplifier, is just the DAC.

 Yes the information was posted that the Compass could function as a preamp, but I just wanted a confirmation that there was no human error involved in the information posted. Better safe than sorry, imo, especially on a purchase from a manufacturer in a different country and across the ocean.

 As for your review, well, I wasn't about to read through some ten reviews when one person could take 10 seconds to say "yes". I already read some of the intial reviews by Currawong and others. Didn't really want to read more since I was already convinced that I wanted the Compass if the preamp function was fully integrated._

 

Very lame.


----------



## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm a bit confused about this paypal stuff... how do I pay?

 Do I use the "send money" tab and 
 TO: "http://audio-gd@vip.163.com/"
 AMOUNT: *the amount I need to pay*
 and in the 'send money for" I select : "Goods"._

 

I've been working too long tonight. I was trying to figure out of this was some SQL joke.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using the Earth module now since the Moon has almost 300 hours already on it and now I am conflicted. 

 The Earth has a less muddy sound because the treble is not as smooth as the Moon and I do dig its more forward midrange compared to the Moon. I do however miss the latter's soundstage though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Argh, which module should I use?_

 

How many hours do you have on the Earth module ? Try not to make things more complicated than they need to be. Just take a deep breath and ask yourself...if either module has not had 350 hours then what I'm hearing right now is not what I will hear when they are mature...in other words kick back, relax, keep putting the hours on the Compass and the modules. Once you have all three fully burned in things will be very different and a lot clearer with notable but fairly small differences between both modules.

 The Moon module is like a SET tube circuit, slightly soft in the bottom end, wide sound stage, slight lower mid accentuation (in the form of chestier bass and male vocal thickening), some smoothing in the upper mids and finally a very slight high end roll off (a very gentle slope), whereas the Earth will have tighter more controlled and extended bass, clear and concise imaging, neutral tonal balance, very good dynamics and a treble region free of etch or tizz with no roll off whatsoever.

 What you describe right now are classic burn in traits of both the Compass and the HDAM modules. The simultaneous burn in for the Compass and HDAM makes for some odd SQ's throughout burn in. All of this settles down completely at 600 hours while the final 150+ hours focus on refinements to dynamics, sound staging and minor improvements to overall character of the Compass amp itself which is, for the record, very well balanced top to bottom frequency wise (mitigated or influenced ever so slightly by OPA choice), focused smooth mid range with excellent detail, great clarity, ever so slightly warm in overall presentation but highly accurate and musical at the same time. There is no sign of the dry analytical steely nature that plagues a lot of DAC's and amps in this price bracket. In fact this unit sounds as close to analog as you can get considering the price constraints.

 If anyone can add to this or correct it then please do.....all the above is IMHO of course and YMMV but I feel the general traits I've laid out are pretty accurate.

 Peete.


----------



## theBigD

Well I thought I should update my impressions a bit. For those that have seen my initial impressions about the DAC. Take them with a grain of salt now.

 I markl modded my d7000 a couple weeks back. I did it at the same time as my roommate did his d5000. when we damped the center driver it was late and i just puched a hole in the dynamat with a hole punch and widened it a bit with a screwdriver. my roommate actually punched around the hole a bit more getting the hole a bit wider. niether on of us was completely sure how wide it should be.

 when i got the headphones back together, i thought the mids didnt sound quite right, a bit pushed forward without a natural resonance and the bass got really punchy without as much resonance. 

 figured i would let it burn in and see if it would change. this week getting the compass a lot of the extra resonance that my x-fi soundard was adding was eliminated thus adding a certain sterility to my headphones. my roommates sounded better but the d5000 always had a bit too recessed mids for my taste. So I kinda continued to just hope the compass would warm up a bit.

 well this morning, I finally got the courage to go back into the headphone and "De Markled" the center driver a bit, opening up the center by quite a bit, the hole is now several times the size it was. WOW what a difference it made. Got a nice analog sound back the strings resonate again, drums have texture, soundstage openened up, in short things sound like music and not a digital tight representation of the music.

 This really illustrates the importance of carefully listening to each element in the chain as you make upgrades to understand what is actually happening with the sound. I usually haven't had the time to mod so many things at once, Markl Mod, EF1 mods and now listening with compass in different modes, its absolutely very fun and I am greatful for the chance to listen and evaluate the different stuff, but it is also a bit frustrating when things dont sound quite right.

 I havent gone back to listening to the compass without dac so it will be very interesting to see what happens. Ive got 3 or 4 more days to get some more evaluating done between the compass and ef1, so hopefully Ill get some more relevant with the improved d7000.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I markl modded my d7000 a couple weeks back. I did it at the same time as my roommate did his d5000. when we damped the center driver it was late and i just puched a hole in the dynamat with a hole punch and widened it a bit with a screwdriver. my roommate actually punched around the hole a bit more getting the hole a bit wider. niether on of us was completely sure how wide it should be.

 when i got the headphones back together, i thought the mids didnt sound quite right, a bit pushed forward without a natural resonance and the bass got really punchy without as much resonance. 

 well this morning, I finally got the courage to go back into the headphone and "De Markled" the center driver a bit, opening up the center by quite a bit, the hole is now several times the size it was. WOW what a difference it made. Got a nice analog sound back the strings resonate again, drums have texture, soundstage openened up, in short things sound like music and not a digital tight representation of the music._

 

Are you talking about step 7 here?


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How many hours do you have on the Earth module ? Try not to make things more complicated than they need to be. Just take a deep breath and ask yourself...if either module has not had 350 hours then what I'm hearing right now is not what I will hear when they are mature...in other words kick back, relax, keep putting the hours on the Compass and the modules. Once you have all three fully burned in things will be very different and a lot clearer with notable but fairly small differences between both modules.

 The Moon module is like a SET tube circuit, slightly soft in the bottom end, wide sound stage, slight lower mid accentuation (in the form of chestier bass and male vocal thickening), some smoothing in the upper mids and finally a very slight high end roll off (a very gentle slope), whereas the Earth will have tighter more controlled and extended bass, clear and concise imaging, neutral tonal balance, very good dynamics and a treble region free of etch or tizz with no roll off whatsoever.

 What you describe right now are classic burn in traits of both the Compass and the HDAM modules. The simultaneous burn in for the Compass and HDAM makes for some odd SQ's throughout burn in. All of this settles down completely at 600 hours while the final 150+ hours focus on refinements to dynamics, sound staging and minor improvements to overall character of the Compass amp itself which is, for the record, very well balanced top to bottom frequency wise (mitigated or influenced ever so slightly by OPA choice), focused smooth mid range with excellent detail, great clarity, ever so slightly warm in overall presentation but highly accurate and musical at the same time. There is no sign of the dry analytical steely nature that plagues a lot of DAC's and amps in this price bracket. In fact this unit sounds as close to analog as you can get considering the price constraints.

 If anyone can add to this or correct it then please do.....all the above is IMHO of course and YMMV but I feel the general traits I've laid out are pretty accurate.

 Peete._

 

I think I had about 200 hours in the Earth but that was back in the Zero days but that was some fine explanation and I thank you for that, Peete. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I suppose I will use the Earth a bit now to re-familiarize with its sound and for some nice change of pace. The tube-like sound of the Moon has literally gotten me a little bit soft so it's now the perfect tome to get some energy back.


----------



## theBigD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you talking about step 7 here?_

 

Actually its step 3. Dampening the back of the driver.


----------



## sarathcpt

Same here. This will be my first full-size DAC and very excited and anxious about it. Already I started imagining how the music I listen to right now on my D2000+Bithead would sound through a compass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Its a perfect recipe for becoming underwhelmed after actually listening to it..but can't help it !

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Often times, sarcasm is wasted on the internet, since it's inherently broken (to quote XKCD: 'try posting a youtube comment that's so stupid people must realise you've been joking. Hint: It's impossible').
 However: this made me chuckle, and made me feel like less of a noob.
 On another -somewhat related- note: I kind of feel guilty though: I've already ordered the Compass, but I don't know a whole lot about it. Are there people out there who share my inexperience and are also kind of anxious?_


----------



## JackKander

Seeing as I already own an amp, how should the DAC portion of the Compass compare to the pico USB dac?


----------



## martook

Finally got my thumb out and ordered the Compass yesterday. Been following this thread from the beginning (yeah, all of it... not quite as bad as the hd800 thread, but close enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), in my quest for something more stationary to replace my Pico at work. Really looking forward to getting this baby in my hands, got a feeling I'll like it! Need to get an amp for home as well, and the C-2C is on my very short short-list right now. That'll have to wait a couple of months though. Anyone knows how long the promo price will be around for it? I do wonder how well the C-2C would work with my Paradisea+ though... maybe I have to get a new DAC from him as well? *wallet shivering in fear*

 Oh, also have to say that both Kingwa and Cherry are a pleasure to deal with, they are silly fast to reply to emails and really nice too. Wish more companies had customer service like that!


----------



## WC Annihilus

The promo price will last at least through the end of May. There have been a few posts saying Kingwa might be considering extending it even longer, but for now just keep the end of May in mind


----------



## martook

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WC Annihilus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The promo price will last at least through the end of May. There have been a few posts saying Kingwa might be considering extending it even longer, but for now just keep the end of May in mind_

 

But that's prolly for the Compass, I'm asking about the C-2C (yeah, wrong thread I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). I suppose it might apply for both amps though!


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually its step 3. Dampening the back of the driver._

 

Ah, I see. When I did that step, I didn't have a hole puncher so what I did was first I cut a strip of dynamat using threads to measure the necessary dimensions and afterwards stick the the dynamat on the wall of the inner driver before finally folding the strip to cover the flat surfaces. It worked pretty well dare I say.


----------



## WC Annihilus

Ah crap, wasn't paying attention, sorry >.>


----------



## Hot Pixel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here. This will be my first full-size DAC and very excited and anxious about it. Already I started imagining how the music I listen to right now on my D2000+Bithead would sound through a compass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Its a perfect recipe for becoming underwhelmed after actually listening to it..but can't help it !_

 

It's a crying shame, but I'm currently focusing more on the technical side of things. You know: trying to figure out how to insert an opAMP, trying to wrap my head around connecting speakers, more of that stuff.

 Music-enjoyment wise I force myself to listen to a terrible Sony-receiver which I loathe, so I'm guaranteed to enjoy the compass, regardless of burn-in etc.

 Another question which has been bugging me a bit. A couple of pages ago somebody described his/her experience with the compass while gaming.
 He said it was awesome, and more of that stuff but I have a question:
 Seeing how external USB-soundcards usually knocks of a good 3-10 fps; how does a USB-DAC fare? Does it make a difference in fps if you connect it using optical/coax vs usb? You know, cause the USB-bus is shared and stuff.


----------



## Aleatoris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a crying shame, but I'm currently focusing more on the technical side of things. You know: trying to figure out how to insert an opAMP, trying to wrap my head around connecting speakers, more of that stuff.

 Music-enjoyment wise I force myself to listen to a terrible Sony-receiver which I loathe, so I'm guaranteed to enjoy the compass, regardless of burn-in etc.

 Another question which has been bugging me a bit. A couple of pages ago somebody described his/her experience with the compass while gaming.
 He said it was awesome, and more of that stuff but I have a question:
 Seeing how external USB-soundcards usually knocks of a good 3-10 fps; how does a USB-DAC fare? Does it make a difference in fps if you connect it using optical/coax vs usb? You know, cause the USB-bus is shared and stuff._

 

If you run onboard out -> DAC or USB, the processing power used is probably about the same. And why would you care about 3-10 FPS? Do your games run at 40FPS without the limiter enabled? If your computer is up to stuff, you should be getting 50+ on any game, a drop down to 40 would hardly be noticeable, unless you have "golden eyes" (lol james bond, but it was meant to be a reference to the "golden-eared" audiophiles)


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JackKander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seeing as I already own an amp, how should the DAC portion of the Compass compare to the pico USB dac?_

 

Unless someone does an actual comparison, we don't know. If someone does, and I see it, I'll post a link to what they wrote in the FAQ.


----------



## Thundernuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If your amplifier has a vol control, you woudl use DAC out, if it is just an amp and needs preamp vol control you would use the preamp outs. 

 YES to all your questions basically. It will do it!_

 

Alai, I would recommend using the Compass as both Preamp and MAIN volume control rather than using the just the DAC out and volume controls on your power amps.

 Two reasons:

 1/ The Compass preamp will act as a discrete buffer between your source, DAC and power amp.

 2/ The volume controls on your intergrated or power amplifier as likely to be of lesser quality than the Alps potentiometer found in the Compass. 

 I would recommending plugging the compass from the pre-amp out and turning the volume controls on your power amplifier/s all the way up. This will effectively bypass them and take them out of the signal path almost completely.

 Your questions are valid and contribution warranted despite the forum mafioso.


----------



## Thundernuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where on earth are you getting this from? Who are these "audiophiles" you are speaking of?



 Sorry, it still shows your laziness. There's a lot of information out there, and yes, it might take little effort to find it. That's a property of a (large) forum such as this, but there are plenty of search functions available. And if you can't find it, I'm sure people here will help if you at least show you've made the effort. When you do this, you can probably ask a more specific question than the one you posted too._

 

Geez, give the poor guy a break.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alai, I would recommend using the Compass as both Preamp and MAIN volume control rather than using the just the DAC out and volume controls on your power amps.

 Two reasons:

 1/ The Compass preamp will act as a discrete buffer between your source, DAC and power amp.

 2/ The volume controls on your intergrated or power amplifier as likely to be of lesser quality than the Alps potentiometre found in the Compass. 

 I would recommending plugging the compass from the pre-amp out and turning the volume controls on your power amplifer/s all the way up. This will effectively bypass them and take them out of the signal path almost completely._

 

I agree to the first point, but I don't think power amps come with volume control - at least I do not know of one..
 As far as Integrated amp goes, not all integrated amps have preamp in, so he would be better of to check that, if not he has no option to use the DAC Out.. And if he is is using powered speakers then again DAC out is the only option.. Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## Thundernuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using the Earth module now since the Moon has almost 300 hours already on it and now I am conflicted. 

 The Earth has a less muddy sound because the treble is not as smooth as the Moon and I do dig its more forward midrange compared to the Moon. I do however miss the latter's soundstage though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Argh, which module should I use?_

 

I think this dilemma could be addressed with a cross-feed. I am hoping Kingwa may consider this in future models.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think this dilemma could be addressed with a cross-feed. I am hoping Kingwa may consider this in future models._

 

I don't think he will.. I asked him about it and he says it goes against his audio philosophy, as he tries to keep his gears as neutral as possible..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. but then I agree..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think this dilemma could be addressed with a cross-feed. I am hoping Kingwa may consider this in future models._

 

Apart from the fact that Kingwa won't do crossfeed in the forseeable future, how would it actually help with soundstage? In my experience crossfeed, by its very nature, always reduces the soundstage.

 EDIT: Wow, I just saw that Audio-gd has run out of OPA Moons. I hope that won't be a problem with coming Compass orders.


----------



## Thundernuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree to the first point, but I don't think power amps come with volume control - at least I do not know of one..
 As far as Integrated amp goes, not all integrated amps have preamp in, so he would be better of to check that, if not he has no option to use the DAC Out.. And if he is is using powered speakers then again DAC out is the only option.. Correct me if I am wrong._

 

Both should work. 

 Active speakers are generally just normal speakers with an intergrated amp built in. Many active speakers aren't really active because they still use a single channel and passive crossover networks anyway.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT: Wow, I just saw that Audio-gd has run out of OPA Moons. I hope that won't be a problem with coming Compass orders._

 

Shouldn't be a problem with Compass orders, because Compass comes with Earth as a default, but I guess those who haven't yet ordered but wish to get Compass with moon - then I see a problem..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shouldn't be a problem with Compass orders, because Compass comes with Earth as a default, but I guess those who haven't yet ordered but wish to get Compass with moon - then I see a problem.._

 

That's what I meant. OPA Moon seems to be the most popular 'side-order' with the Compass.


----------



## Hot Pixel

O dear me... I ordered overy opAMP they had with the compass.
 Maybe they've run out because they put it on the side, next to your order? You know, just so they can ship the moment they have the compass.
 I'm beginning to feel sorry for Kingwa. He must be absolutely swamped 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aleatoris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you run onboard out -> DAC or USB, the processing power used is probably about the same. And why would you care about 3-10 FPS? Do your games run at 40FPS without the limiter enabled? If your computer is up to stuff, you should be getting 50+ on any game, a drop down to 40 would hardly be noticeable, unless you have "golden eyes" (lol james bond, but it was meant to be a reference to the "golden-eared" audiophiles)_

 

Thanks for the answer.
 But what I lack in my hearing, I probably make up for with my other senses. You're right ofcourse; the difference between 70 or 80 fps is negligible. However; the effect of 40fps versus 30 is the difference between playing comfortably and developing a entertainment-migraine. It's definitely something I gotta try out for myself when it gets here.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what I meant. OPA Moon seems to be the most popular 'side-order' with the Compass._

 

You are right Dro, and as far as I know its going to stay like that for a while..that little thing takes quite a while to make !..


----------



## Thundernuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apart from the fact that Kingwa won't do crossfeed in the forseeable future, how would it actually help with soundstage? In my experience crossfeed, by its very nature, always reduces the soundstage.

 ._

 

You may be right. I am not sure whether K3ct was referring to the apparent breadth or naturalness of sound-stage.

 Whether the sound-stage width actually does decrease due to a compression of musical information caused by cross-feed, or appears to narrow due to a psychological phenomenon, is open to debate. 

 Since cross-feed integrates two separate channels of information into two real and one virtual 'centre' channel, it may also cause the brain to focus more on the virtual information in the middle, and less on the previous left / right channels. The absence of this left/right bias may trick the brain into believing the sound-stage appears narrower than before.

 I do find cross-feed circuits tend to have a more listenable sound-stage. Whether this is because of a compression of musical information, or even a decreased width of apparent sound-stage, i am not sure.

 I have noticed when using cross-feed that the mid-range can appear less forward. Whether this is inherent in all cross-feed, or even a pre-recquirement of an effective cross-feed, i don't know.

 It is possible a slightly recessed mid-range may trick the brain into thinking the source is further away, which would lead to an apparently more natural re-presentation.

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_O dear me... I ordered overy opAMP they had with the compass.
 Maybe they've run out because they put it on the side, next to your order? You know, just so they can ship the moment they have the compass.
 I'm beginning to feel sorry for Kingwa. He must be absolutely swamped 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, you're right, he is a little swamped, but coping well. I don't think it would be a problem for those that already ordered. I would imagine they will have those opa's reserved already.

 I can imagine it will be a while before they have a full supply of them again though. As Sandchak said, it's a really intricate little device. It's actually amazing they can sell something like that for just 20$.


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alai, I would recommend using the Compass as both Preamp and MAIN volume control rather than using the just the DAC out and volume controls on your power amps.

 Two reasons:

 1/ The Compass preamp will act as a discrete buffer between your source, DAC and power amp.

 2/ The volume controls on your intergrated or power amplifier as likely to be of lesser quality than the Alps potentiometer found in the Compass. 

 I would recommending plugging the compass from the pre-amp out and turning the volume controls on your power amplifier/s all the way up. This will effectively bypass them and take them out of the signal path almost completely.

 Your questions are valid and contribution warranted despite the forum mafioso._

 

Hm, I can't say I agree. Running two preamplifiers, one after the other, seems like a strange way of doing things. 

 Turning the volume pot up full up on your integrated amplifier/reciever might reduce the damaging influence of that volume pot, but your still running the signal through it's preamplifier with all it's electronic circuits.

 DAC line out to an integrated amplifier/pre amplifier OR pre amp out to a power amplifier is the normal way of doing things.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You may be right. I am not sure whether K3ct was referring to apparent breadth or naturalness of sound-stage.

 Whether the sound-stage width appears to decrease due to a compression of musical information caused by cross-feed, or is merely a psychological phenomenon, since cross-feed integrates two separate blobs of information into one, i am not sure. 

 I do find cross-feed circuits tend to have a more listenable sound-stage. Whether this is because of a compression of musical information, or even a decreased width of apparent sound-stage, i am not sure.

 I have noticed when using cross-feed that the mid-range can appear less forward. Whether this is inherent in all cross-feed, or even a pre-recquirement of an effective cross-feed, i don't know.

 It is possible a slightly recessed mid-range may trick the brain into thinking the source is further away, which would lead an apparantly narrower sound-stage, but also a more natural presentation.

 ._

 

I think the way cross-feed affects the balance of frequency spectrum is very dependent on how it actually is implemented. Apparently, there are a lot of ways to do it. 

 What all crossfeed has in common though, is that it feeds a little information from the left channel into the right channel and vice versa. This makes listening a somewhat easier and more natural, because it's much closer to how we experience sound when not wearing headphones. I can well imagine that the extreme channel separation that you get with headphones can be very difficult to listen to for a lot of people. However, the result of this proces is always a reduction in separation and width of soundstage simply because you're making the sound slightly more mono than it was originally. 

 Admittedly, the above is almost a misrepresentation of crossfeed, because there's much more to it than just this (especially if it is implemented well).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You may be right. I am not sure whether K3ct was referring to the apparent breadth or naturalness of sound-stage.

 Whether the sound-stage width actually does decrease due to a compression of musical information caused by cross-feed, or appears to narrow due to a psychological phenomenon, is open to debate. 

 Since cross-feed integrates two separate channels of information into two real and one virtual 'centre' channel, it may also cause the brain to focus more on the virtual information in the middle, and less on the previous left / right channels. The absence of this left/right bias may trick the brain into believing the sound-stage appears narrower than before.

 I do find cross-feed circuits tend to have a more listenable sound-stage. Whether this is because of a compression of musical information, or even a decreased width of apparent sound-stage, i am not sure.

 I have noticed when using cross-feed that the mid-range can appear less forward. Whether this is inherent in all cross-feed, or even a pre-recquirement of an effective cross-feed, i don't know.

 It is possible a slightly recessed mid-range may trick the brain into thinking the source is further away, which would lead to an apparently more natural re-presentation.

 ._

 

There is nothing stopping you from building your own CF unit ...who knows you may even stumble across or deliberately invent a better way to implement the damned thing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just leave us purist curmudgeons alone with our pristine circuit pathway dreams of perfection...."we don't need no steeeeenking cross feed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




" 

 Just kidding around ...

 Peete.


----------



## Hot Pixel

Allright I just got word EMS doesn't ship to the Netherlands (unfortunately).
 Something to keep in mind if you're Dutch.

 I'm kind of bummed actually. Now I have to pay additional import taxes probably :'(


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Allright I just got word EMS doesn't ship to the Netherlands (unfortunately).
 Something to keep in mind if you're Dutch.

 I'm kind of bummed actually. Now I have to pay additional import taxes probably :'(_

 

Ha, I just ran into the same problem, apparently EMS does seem to ship to Belgium though, so if you happen to have a friend living there... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Truth be told, I think the chances are slim with Dutch customs of something the size of the Compass (or bigger) slipping through unnoticed anyways. Although I was quietly hoping for some more reasonable charges with EMS than I'm likely get (again) from DHL.


----------



## Hot Pixel

On a more positive note: I don't have to pay the price difference between the two. That's all AudioGD can do, really. I really am amazed by this company.
 It seems to me that Audio-GD has poured everything they don't have invested in their site in customer service.
 As for the import tax-thingy. What do ya recon Drosera? €50 or something?


----------



## WallyPower

I've read somewhere that Kingwa reports to the customs that is a PCB worth about $80. I dont know if you have to pay tax over the shipping, but if that isn't the case, you'll just have to pay the BTW (Dutch for VAT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) which is $80 x 0,19= $15.20. That said, you'll never know if our beloved goverment try to screw us over..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On a more positive note: I don't have to pay the price difference between the two. That's all AudioGD can do, really. I really am amazed by this company.
 It seems to me that Audio-GD has poured everything they don't have invested in their site in customer service.
 As for the import tax-thingy. What do ya recon Drosera? €50 or something?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WallyPower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read somewhere that Kingwa reports to the customs that is a PCB worth about $80. I dont know if you have to pay tax over the shipping, but if that isn't the case, you'll just have to pay the BTW (Dutch for VAT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) which is $80 x 0,19= $15.20. That said, you'll never know if our beloved goverment try to screw us over..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think I had to pay something like 36-38 euros for the Compass. If you get charged much more than that, I guess it's (really) time to complain. Remember that they are officially allowed to charge you both for the price of the product and for the shipping costs up to the Dutch border. Kingwa will try to keep the taxes low with his declaration, but it doesn't always work. Unfortunately, Kingwa cannot declare the shipping costs because those are changing from day to day and can only be known precisely at the time of shipping. So there's a good chance that customs will just make something up when charging you for shipping.

 Another thing, the DHL delivery guy/girl will charge you and probably won't charge you a nicely rounded sum. However, you will have to pay exactly what he/she charges ("gepast"), because they don't have any change. (I think payment by credit card might be another option, but I'm not a 100% sure of that.)

 Fun, ain't it?


----------



## WallyPower

I know something even more funny 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. When they come to my house for delivery, I shall pay them "gepast", but I shall pay them using the jar full of 1, 2 and 5 cents.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that'll teach em for not carrying any change


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WallyPower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know something even more funny 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. When they come to my house for delivery, I shall pay them "gepast", but I shall pay them using the jar full of 1, 2 and 5 cents.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that'll teach em for not carrying any change
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL, make sure you have someone else standing by who can take pictures!


----------



## Hot Pixel

Lol I'd love to see that one as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 *chants*
 I thought that recently the laws surrounding the import of goods has changed? As in: if it costs less than 269 euro, it's 'free' to import. Hmm... need to do some research.
 Does the DHL drop the package at the nearest postal office if you're not at home? Or do they hang on to it? My schedule can be quite random, so I'm afraid if I miss the boat I'll pay for it (both figuratively and literally speaking).


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought that recently the laws surrounding the import of goods has changed? As in: if it costs less than 269 euro, it's 'free' to import. Hmm... need to do some research._

 

I don't know, how recent was that? The last thing I'm aware is that only products under 22 euros are 'tax-free'.

 EDIT: No, I think you're confusing it with the value of goods you can take with you when you're traveling back home from outside The Netherlands, that's recently been upped to 430 euros. Rules for imports outside the EU are still like here. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the DHL drop the package at the nearest postal office if you're not at home? Or do they hang on to it? My schedule can be quite random, so I'm afraid if I miss the boat I'll pay for it (both figuratively and literally speaking)._

 

I don't know how many delivery attempts there are. But I think you can always make an appointment for delivery. (I sure hope they won't send it back to China if they can't deliver it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## haloxt

If it's not possible to implement hardware crossfeed without degrading sound quality even when switched off, then I think it's best to just use DSP crossfeed. There's a lot of different software crossfeeds and customizations to choose from and people will have different favorites so even if hardware crossfeed was implemented people might prefer software. Plus, software DSP is applied without degrading the signal while hardware crossfeed can.

 The drawback of not having hardware crossfeed is that it can be very inconvenient to apply crossfeed DSP if you aren't using a computer as source, and some albums don't need crossfeed at all so the possibility to switch on and off crossfeed at the push of a button is lost.


----------



## theBigD

Well, you guys certainly know your stuff. Peete, Currawang and others who have said all along the power cable makes a difference. Damn. 

 My friends compass only came the audio gd upgrade cable as reccomended. So Ive been using the better cable. I have been of the opinion that a power cable will not make a difference. And so very badly did not want to believe that it does becuase this is money i did not want to spend. It also raises many other quandries about the rest of my equipment that I do not want to think about.

 But this morning i tried with a stock cable from my projector as this is the only 3 prong power cable available. and listened to ani defranco "fire door" with the sun hdam( my favorite for energy and crispness ), i figured the sun would be the one to show up the issue with the treble that others had talked about with stock cable. and sure enough with a stock cable there was an edge that was uncomfortable to listen to. When i hooked up the boutique cable from audio gd it smoothed out and become very listenable with good punch. 

 And this is with my pre disposed notion of not believing or wanting it to work!


----------



## nv88

Any idea of the turnaround time from order until a Compass ships right now? If I want a Moon, will my Compass be held up, or would they ship that separately?


----------



## WallyPower

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nv88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any idea of the turnaround time from order until a Compass ships right now? If I want a Moon, will my Compass be held up, or would they ship that separately?_

 

I emailed Kingwa about this, and I got a reply from Cherry that it doesn't effect your Compass in any way.


----------



## theBigD

If I get the compass I may have them sub the sun for it. I really like the sun in the compass and running the dac out to my ef1 with a sun in power slot. It makes my denon d7000 really rock!!!! really loving metallica's "for whom the bell tolls" right now.

 Edit: it's like adding a GRADO sound to the DENON headphones!


----------



## nv88

So are they shipping out the final version to people now, or getting a big batch ready to go? 

 Am I correct that the Earth and Moon are more popular than the Sun?


----------



## mlarn

The estimate for shipping on the final version is early April, this has been discussed many times. I think you are correct on the OPA question. I ordered all 3 since they are just $20 each as an add-on when you buy the Compass, and I think many others did too, but I have seen many more reviews with the Earth and Moon than I have with the Sun. I am sure this is at least partly a function of just these all being new and there has not been a lot of time to try all of these out yet. On Currawong's FAQ/Intro to the Compass there is a link to majkel's review of all 3: Introduction to the Compass DAC and Headphone amplifier - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio.


----------



## nv88

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mlarn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The estimate for shipping on the final version is early April, this has been discussed many times._

 

Thanks. Yes, I had seen April several times, but it seems I'm also seeing occasionally where someone gets their Compass, so I'm a little confused. I guess I'll just wait.


----------



## mlarn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nv88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. Yes, I had seen April several times, but it seems I'm also seeing occasionally where someone gets their Compass, so I'm a little confused. I guess I'll just wait._

 

Its kind of confusing, but the details are in this thread many times (even just a few pages ago) and you can also get the info you need in the link I posted earlier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The short version is that there are basically 3 rounds: 1st round was testing units (18), second round was upgraded units without faceplate changes (30), then the final version with the faceplate changes will start shipping expected early April. Any units that have been received so far are not the final versions of the Compass. I think it is definitely worth the wait!


----------



## mlarn

So after seeing the reports from dBs and bjorn about the Bright setting and Sennheisers I had to try it out for myself. My HD600’s with the Compass were just a little bit strong on the bass for my tastes, and after changing the Neutral setting (with Earth OPA) to the Bright setting I have to say I am VERY happy. The bass is still very much there, but the Bright setting has allowed the highs and mids to come back to the front a little bit more and now they are not being drowned out by the bass at all. I have to say again that many people would probably not think the bass was overwhelming in the Earth and Neutral configuration, but for me with the Senn’s it was just a little bit too much. 

 Switching to Bright gives me a great combo of detail and bass at the same time. I am hearing layering/separation and details (especially from the piano) that I have never heard before. I am at about a week and ¾ of continuous burn-in (plus the 150 before it even left Kingwa) and I am really happy with how the unit has changed along the way. I don’t have a lot to compare this to, but for what I paid I am extremely satisfied with the sound I am hearing. When the unit was first burning in the individual notes/instruments were not as distinct as I had hoped (which you would expect right out of the box) but now I can’t get over how spread out an “un-muddied” everything is. Friday Night in San Francisco has never sounded so good! 

 I guess Bright-Moon is next on the agenda, but I will wait a while and just enjoy the music…


----------



## dBs

I would say that if the Earth+Neutral with the HD600s was too much bass, then you probably wont like the Moon+Bright. Im a bit of a basshead apparently (as is what everyone tells me, I just have always known the sound that Ive liked XD), I thought that the HD650 wasnt quite bass heavy enough for my taste which is a fairly rare complaint from what I can tell. The Moon+Bright on HD650s really just emphasizes the low end and the highs individually. The HD650 has always been very strong in the mid section but I thought lacking in the lows and highs, hence why I am in love with this configuration. I STILL havent tried Moon+Neutral though...though Im about to right now so I will know the normal sound of the Moon and if thats enough for me. Ill update tonight on impressions on that set up.

 I will be able to say that I suspect you will really like the soundstaging of the Moon since you seem to enjoy soundstage.

 12 days*24 hours-7 hours (forgot to plug in laptop last night during burn in =P)+ 150 hours=431 hours of burn in so far. About 131 hours on the Moon specifically. I continue burning in under Soft 2 but I now play around with the jumpers while Im listening.


 UPDATE: Granted, its only been a very brief listen so far with Moon+Neutral, but the bass definitely becomes too much in this configuration. I think the Bright setting is almost needed to help balance out the bass emphasis that the Moon has.


----------



## mlarn

Thanks for the impressions dBs. I will have to give the Bright and Moon a shot to see I can get the soundstage without too much bass. According to Pricklely Peete the Compass will continue to change for a while still, so it will be interesting to see how this shakes out.


----------



## Currawong

I've added info about the shipping and the units that have already gone out to people to the first post and FAQ so there wont be any more confusion.


----------



## K3cT

A little discourse guys. What sampling rate you use with the Compass for those who are using its USB input, 44.1kHz or 48kHz? Any justification for your choice?


----------



## haloxt

Are you talking about the "Always Resample 44.1kHz <-> 48kHz" option? It is supposed to resample 48kHz files to 44.1kHz by itself and bypass the AC 97 resampler which is supposed to be inferior quality. But most files should be 44.1kHz. That's the only thing I keep checked, I don't thin the other two checkboxes apply. Latency I can't tell a difference, I just set above when it starts clipping somewhere in the middle.


----------



## renegade732

What have all you Denon folk been setting your compass to? I've been using the default Eart and Bright on my D5000 but I'm thinking of changing it up a bit to neutral or soft.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you talking about the "Always Resample 44.1kHz <-> 48kHz" option? It is supposed to resample 48kHz files to 44.1kHz by itself and bypass the AC 97 resampler which is supposed to be inferior quality. But most files should be 44.1kHz. That's the only thing I keep checked, I don't thin the other two checkboxes apply. Latency I can't tell a difference, I just set above when it starts clipping somewhere in the middle._

 

Hmm... it seems that you're using ASIO4ALL for that? I wouldn't know for sure since I'm using WASAPI and there's no setting whatsoever for it. 

 I mean for the device setting itself. We get 16bit 33.2kHz, 44.1kHz and 48kHz for the Compass. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *renegade732* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What have all you Denon folk been setting your compass to? I've been using the default Eart and Bright on my D5000 but I'm thinking of changing it up a bit to neutral or soft._

 

Bright was too much for my ears. I prefer neutral or soft 1 with Earth/Moon. I've been using neutral all this time but might try soft 1 soon.


----------



## theBigD

Well I ordered my compass last night. I think i should see mine in about 3 weeks.

 Here are my furthur impressions of EF1 vs Compass.

 Amps are not that dissimiliar when you use the hdams in the ef1.

 There is a small amount of space, dynamics and detail clarity advantage to the compass. Compass has better PRAT, quick and punchy. Also the compass has a bit of warmth in the low end that the ef1 doesnt have.

 The ef1 has the advantage with strings with nice resonance in stringed instruments (violin, acoustic guitar) especially with the mullard tube. cymbals are a bit splashy and not real sounding. Soundstage doesnt float in space as much as compass. the ef1 does sound a bit more musical and conveys emotion well, especially with slower pieces or solo presentations of guitar or violin.

 I used the op 275 stock op amp for a couple of songs and there just was no contest here. when you pull out the hdam and put in the stock op amp its like you loose half of the music. the d7000 cups are filled with music when the hdam is in, 3d and very fluid. put in the op275 and sound becomes 2d and not very dynamic. there is a small amount of bass extension, but little punch, and the midrange isnt as clear nor is the PRAT very good.

 Just for fun I threw the op 275 in compass, with similiar results but more painfully obvious. very 2d without much clarity. Since the ef1 was designed around the op 275 it fairs quite a bit better with it in there than the compass does.

 Mainly I am getting the compass because i need a DAC. It is also an incredibly well built unit. This thing is like a tank! it is about 4 times bigger than the ef1! Everything about it screams overbuilt, the case, the headphone jack. I could live with the EF1 in its present configuration quite well, it sounds very good and with some things better. I do think the EF1 is a more delicate system, and it is a bit of a challenge to get the hdams to work in it, by stacking several 8 pin socket adapters on top of each other to get it in the case, sometimes the connection isnt %100 and others have had difficulty making it work. But so far I am loving the sun in my ef1. also like the earth. the moon is a bit too smooth, i like a bit of bite and edge with my music.


----------



## Currawong

theBigD: Nice write-up. I've linked it from the FAQ. For putting the HDAM in the EF1, you can get an extension wire from Kingwa, which is two sockets connected with wire. You could just make one yourself if you have a soldering iron and some high quality hook-up wire.


----------



## theBigD

Thanks Curra. I actually do use the exension for the earth, i taped a popsicle stick in the middle so it would stand straight up and it works pretty good. 

 I thought I might do a more in depth review. Comparing all modes with different songs, but it became very overwhelming. Both amps have so many variations. With the EF1 and Compass I could change Earth, Sun, Moon. With EF1 I could use Mullard, Sylvania, Rca tubes. With Compass I could choose Bright, Neutral, Soft1. AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!

 I did compare the amps one to one using the same module in each unit to get the most accurate comparison. I have a lot of respect for you guys who have done some excellent reviews. It takes alot of time to do the comparing and then making your review look so proffesional, like Peete did. this is a HUGE effort. I am so grateful to those in head-fi who take the time to do this.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Curra. I actually do use the exension for the earth, i taped a popsicle stick in the middle so it would stand straight up and it works pretty good. 

 I thought I might do a more in depth review. Comparing all modes with different songs, but it became very overwhelming. Both amps have so many variations. With the EF1 and Compass I could change Earth, Sun, Moon. With EF1 I could use Mullard, Sylvania, Rca tubes. With Compass I could choose Bright, Neutral, Soft1. AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!

 I did compare the amps one to one using the same module in each unit to get the most accurate comparison. I have a lot of respect for you guys who have done some excellent reviews. It takes alot of time to do the comparing and then making your review look so proffesional, like Peete did. this is a HUGE effort. I am so grateful to those in head-fi who take the time to do this._

 

I have been following your impressions and observations of Compas, I like the way you have gone about it, most importantly I think that you are the only one among us to have a listen to compass extensively before deciding to go ahead and buying one, Thanks...


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a small amount of space, dynamics and detail clarity advantage to the compass. Compass has better PRAT, quick and punchy. Also the compass has a bit of warmth in the low end that the ef1 doesnt have.

 The ef1 has the advantage with strings with nice resonance in stringed instruments (violin, acoustic guitar) especially with the mullard tube. cymbals are a bit splashy and not real sounding. Soundstage doesnt float in space as much as compass. the ef1 does sound a bit more musical and conveys emotion well, especially with slower pieces or solo presentations of guitar or violin.

 Mainly I am getting the compass because i need a DAC. It is also an incredibly well built unit. This thing is like a tank! it is about 4 times bigger than the ef1! Everything about it screams overbuilt, the case, the headphone jack. I could live with the EF1 in its present configuration quite well, it sounds very good and with some things better. I do think the EF1 is a more delicate system, and it is a bit of a challenge to get the hdams to work in it, by stacking several 8 pin socket adapters on top of each other to get it in the case, sometimes the connection isnt %100 and others have had difficulty making it work. But so far I am loving the sun in my ef1. also like the earth. the moon is a bit too smooth, i like a bit of bite and edge with my music._

 

Great impressions, thebigD! I think you have just changed my mind for the EF1 as it doesn't seem to be leaps and bounds better than the Compass. 

 I think I know what I'm aiming for next: DAC19MK3


----------



## drummer1985

.


----------



## drummer1985

i have been told my compass will arrived in the early of April.can't wait to see how great is it.


----------



## jron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drummer1985* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have been told my compass will arrived in the early of April.can't wait to see how great is it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

When did you place your order?


----------



## Dat_Dude

I placed my order on the 11th of March and Cherry told me it would ship the "end of March". I don't see my name on the shipping page, but hopefully within the next week it will be on it's way.


----------



## ttnl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I placed my order on the 11th of March and Cherry told me it would ship the "end of March". I don't see my name on the shipping page, but hopefully within the next week it will be on it's way._

 

How do you access the shipping page? Thanks.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I placed my order on the 11th of March and Cherry told me it would ship the "end of March". I don't see my name on the shipping page, but hopefully within the next week it will be on it's way._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttnl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you access the shipping page? Thanks._

 

There's a shipping page? I want.


----------



## Dat_Dude

BOOOOM!


----------



## drummer1985

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When did you place your order?_

 

oh i placed my order on 22nd of march,i don't know what they told me is accurate or not.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BOOOOM!_

 

Thanks!

 I thought it would show future shipments not just what went out on what day in the past. Oh well...back to waiting. I placed my order on March 20 so hopefully I will see it in the next few weeks.


----------



## sandchak

I just asked Kingwa about pending Compass shipments, he says Thursday (2nd April) he will be shipping 20 units of 110 volt and 10 units of 220 volt Compass, he will complete shipping all the remaining Compasses by next week.. you can check on Friday on the shipping page ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1
 If you want to see if your Compass was shipped on Thursday.. Hope this helps.

 EDIT - Well it seems few Compasses will also ship out tomorrow, but I have a feeling its the Singapore MO, although I am not sure about it.. but the above is confirmed.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just asked Kingwa about pending Compass shipments, he says Thursday (2nd April) he will be shipping 20 units of 110 volt and 10 units of 220 volt Compass, he will complete shipping all the remaining Compasses by next week.. you can check on Friday on the shipping page ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1
 If you want to see if your Compass was shipped on Thursday.. Hope this helps.

 EDIT - Well it seems few Compasses will also ship out tomorrow, but I have a feeling its the Singapore MO, although I am not sure about it.. but the above is confirmed._

 

Thank you!


----------



## wdoerr

Confirmed.

 Ordered on the 9th.

 A cynic would say I was lied to about end of March shipping.


----------



## Dat_Dude

I hope Kingwa gets these shipped out as fast as possible so he can SLEEP!

 It sounds like most of us should have these in our hands by mid-April. My newly ordered HD650s won't have to be lonely for very long!


----------



## Hot Pixel

Ordered on the 19th, have not gotten an e-mail (yet).
 Not worried though.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A cynic would say I was lied to about end of March shipping._

 

I don't think even a cynic would say that if he has followed this thread carefully..


----------



## TCM

Does anybody know how the dac is compared to the Squeezebox? If I'll buy a Compass I will use it with my SB so a comparison between the 2 would be nice.


----------



## Currawong

TCM: All the comparisons that exist I put in the FAQ as I find them. There are none with the SB yet. If it's just the basic SB though, I'd imagine the Compass would be considerably better because of the higher quality components used, at the very least.

 Those of you having your Compass shipped by DHL, when it arrives in your country, check that you don't get a "Clearance Delay" message. If you do, contact DHL locally straight away, unless you want it to sit there for weeks. I don't believe such problems exist with EMS.


----------



## ExtraNice

I did it, did the dirty deeds and paid the money.
 Does he send you an email confirming your purchase?


----------



## ExtraNice

*double*

 How come everything i use Quick Reply, it posts twice?!


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did it, did the dirty deeds and paid the money.
 Does he send you an email confirming your purchase?_

 

Both times I ordered were the same. After communicating with Cherry, I sent the money via paypal, and then didn't hear back from her. I sent her an email to confirm, and she got back to me right away that the money had been received. So drop her a line if you're unsure.


----------



## ExtraNice

Thanks for the advice! They said they've received my hard-earned cash and will be shipping next week.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did it, did the dirty deeds and paid the money.
 Does he send you an email confirming your purchase?_

 

The reason you don't get a confirmation of PayPal payment is because :

 Audio GD receives many payment through PayPal in a day, and since PayPal address can be different from the email address you use for normal communications, they are not sure who has made the payment, please follow up the PayPal payment with another email to Audio GD, stating that you made the payment of (whatever amount), following which you will receive a payment confirmation from Audio GD.

 Well it already seems you got the confirmation, still I'll keep this as general information.


----------



## TCM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TCM: All the comparisons that exist I put in the FAQ as I find them. There are none with the SB yet. If it's just the basic SB though, I'd imagine the Compass would be considerably better because of the higher quality components used, at the very least._

 

Thanks Currawong, I just tried to tempt somebody to speak up if they hadn't already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. What attracts me about the Compass (among other things) is the dac/headamp all-in-on possibility. I want a compact solution with my Squeezebox and this looks really nice.


----------



## GoodRevrnd

Gah. Well, I'm a DAC noob and I broke down and ordered one of these. After enough poking around the price just seemed too right and it has all the features I need. Ordered yesterday, they told me it will ship on April 10th.


----------



## nsx_23

I'm just about to order one. So I'm guessing I just order by emailing to the address on the Audio GD website?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm just about to order one. So I'm guessing I just order by emailing to the address on the Audio GD website?_

 

Yes, give them your complete order (including extra cables or opamps you might want) with the address (including phone number) it should be sent to. Then they can give you the quote for the complete amount due and you can transfer that by Paypal.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*double*

 How come everything i use Quick Reply, it posts twice?!_

 

Quick reply uses AJAX (javascript) which can be flakey. 

 By the way, if anyone sees any comparisons between the Compass and any other device in threads other than this one, please let me know, and I'll link them.


----------



## Hottuna_

Its nice to see how far it has come in just a few months.
 From Currawong's idea to audio-gd rolling out the final product.
 The amount of attention generated, contribution to the design and finally purchases from the head-fi community was very impressive.

 Doing our part in stimulating the economy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope Kingwa starts shipping the next batch soon. I am looking forward to listening to it over the Easter long weekend.


----------



## dannie01

With all effort make by Currawong and others here in this forum. I'm now waiting for a new *BALANCED HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER *by Kingwa. I've bought some OPAmp from Audio GD, he's really a nice guy to deal with, so do Cherry also, they are both responsive and always try their best to solve a single problem.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With all effort make by Currawong and others here in this forum. I'm now waiting for a new *BALANCED HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER *by Kingwa. I've bought some OPAmp from Audio GD, he's really a nice guy to deal with, so do Cherry also, they are both responsive and always try their best to solve a single problem._

 

This is quite funny. I asked Kingwa about whether the C2C would work balanced, and he replied he could put two of them in a big box to work balanced. Before I knew it, he said he'd completed the design and was wondering how many inputs it should have!


----------



## PPkiller

first batch of compass final version has been shipped according to his website... maybe currawong can update the first post? cheers..


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PPkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_first batch of compass final version has been shipped according to his website... maybe currawong can update the first post? cheers.._

 

I saw that too, but it isn't reflected on his "Shipping Page". Probably just hasn't gotten around to updating it yet. I ordered mine early March, so hopefully I am in this first batch!


----------



## ExtraNice

Could I please have the link to the shipping page?
 I just ordered to today + using EMS, so I'll be playing the waiting game.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I saw that too, but it isn't reflected on his "Shipping Page". Probably just hasn't gotten around to updating it yet. I ordered mine early March, so hopefully I am in this first batch! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Shipping today seems to have been the batch orders. (See the shipping page.) So, unless you happen to live in Malaysia or Singapore, that's probably not you. Sorry. But if you think progress is slow, just watch the number of Compasses appearing on the shipping page in the coming week and you will know why things are taking a bit of time.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could I please have the link to the shipping page?
 I just ordered to today + using EMS, so I'll be playing the waiting game. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 I guess waiting for you should be less long than for previous people who ordered. I'm amazed to see that they even plan to ship 4 days after ordering for every Compass ordered after April 10.


----------



## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But if you think progress is slow, just watch the number of Compasses appearing on the shipping page in the coming week and you will know why things are taking a bit of time._

 

I'm sort of curious what the final tally will be. Considering almost all the US press probably comes from this Site it'll be an interesting measure of how much power head-fi has over the market in general.


----------



## Zhirc

Seems like the first batch's units went mostly to VR-Zone forums MO as expected.

 Ordered my piece on 11 - 12th March, can't wait for it. Maybe I'll write some impressions (with my bad English skills) how it performs with my music taste, as there don't seem to be many junglists/technoheads/oldskool trancecrackers and IDM or ambient listeners... at least within those who ordered Compass, I guess.


----------



## wdoerr

If I'm not mistaken, just two days a week. So the first batch should go in a little over 24 hours.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I'm not mistaken, just two days a week. So the first batch should go in a little over 24 hours._

 

It already did. Some 24 of them. 

http://www.audio-gd.com/consignment.htm

 Expecting mine to be shipping in a week or so


----------



## GoodRevrnd

FYI for US folks: if this thing doesn't make it past customs, I peeked in the Harmonized Tariff Schedule and found that the likely charge for import tariff is 4.9%. Apparently there is some other user fee that can be assessed as well that I think would be a flat $5-$9.

Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States
Classification: 8518.40.20
CROSS Customs Rulings Online Search System


----------



## Eric M

Shouldn't this thread be renamed to something like "Audio-gd Compass Discussion" or something now...


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GoodRevrnd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FYI for US folks: if this thing doesn't make it past customs, I peeked in the Harmonized Tariff Schedule and found that the likely charge for import tariff is 4.9%. Apparently there is some other user fee that can be assessed as well that I think would be a flat $5-$9.

Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States
 Classification: 8518.40.20
CROSS Customs Rulings Online Search System_

 

Have yet to see this happen with anything I've ordered from China (5 or 6 packages in the last year or so), just for the record.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have yet to see this happen with anything I've ordered from China (5 or 6 packages in the last year or so), just for the record._

 

Same for me....never.


----------



## theBigD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is quite funny. I asked Kingwa about whether the C2C would work balanced, and he replied he could put two of them in a big box to work balanced. Before I knew it, he said he'd completed the design and was wondering how many inputs it should have!_

 

WOW a balanced C2C that would be very cool. Kingwa is amazing, I cant believe how open he is to these ideas!

 As far as customs goes, ive gotten to hdam orders from audio gd with no problem except one order came though LA, then went to New Jersey, then showed up in oregon a week later!

 Also my roommates compass came with no hitch.

 Hopefully mine will come no problem.


----------



## stellablues

I purchased Feb 22nd. Hope I am in the first batch as well. I want to get this thing burned in quickly to see if I should order another for the office before the promo price is over. 

 Do you think I could get Kingwa to make a custom one with 2-3 toslink inputs? I want to use this bad boy for blu-ray, DVD, Airport Express...


----------



## Currawong

Ok, FAQ and 1st post updated. I've started a thread for discussion of the Phoenix balanced HP amp here.


----------



## ExtraNice

I checked Australia's Import Tax page... everything under $1000 is tax and duty free, except for smokes.

 Very happy about that.


----------



## Skibumef

I just ordered mine in the early AM today here in the US. I was pleasantly surprised when my first email to Audio-gd was answered less than a minute later by Cherry! Like everyone else, I can't wait to get that 'friggin box! This is my first real hi-fi purchase you could say, as I'm stepping up from my Headroom Total Bithead. I'm looking forward to hearing the improvement.


----------



## nv88

Is there an update on the selector knob? I saw where a few people said theirs become loose. Were these isolated cases, have the knobs been changed, are they attached differently now...? The heat which apparently goes away during burn-in and a few loose selector knobs are the only minor issues I've read about.


----------



## haloxt

The reason why some knobs became loose was because they weren't glued like the first 18 prototypes, but now they're all being glued. I don't think the heat is a problem at all, some people are keeping track of the heat emitted as time goes on and with different gear but haven't reported back yet. We've been wondering about the heat since we first got compasses but no problems seem to have arisen yet.


----------



## nv88

I'm seriously thinking about placing an order. I can't decide between the Compass or an iBasso D10. Can anyone comment on the relative sound quality of the Compass over a nice portable dac/amp? I know these are very different, but I can only get one. I've had a couple of portable amps (D1, Minibox-e+). But the only desktop DAC/amp I've had was a EMU 0404 USB. I'd rather have the drastically better SQ. But if the sound quality is close I may rather have the portability.


----------



## haloxt

If your EMU 0404 is anything like my $200 Claro Halo sound card, you're going to hear the difference the first second you listen to this full-size dac/amp, and it'll get much better after several hundred hours of burn-in


----------



## nv88

The DAC wasn't bad on the EMU 0404 (IMHO), but the headphone amp wasn't very impressive. I'd like to think the headphone amp in something like the Compass will be a drastic improvement compared to what's in any portable amp. I just wanted some confirmation.


----------



## haloxt

It will be a drastic improvement, it's got electrolytes which portable amps don't have and has Brawndo's seal of approval.






 Just generally speaking, portable amps are made to be portable, not with SQ as the primary objective. That's not the case with the compass.


----------



## nv88

Well if it's got electrolytes... I can't argue with that.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nv88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DAC wasn't bad on the EMU 0404 (IMHO), but the headphone amp wasn't very impressive. I'd like to think the headphone amp in something like the Compass will be a drastic improvement compared to what's in any portable amp. I just wanted some confirmation._

 

I've seen the DAC of the E-MU 0404 described as very detailed, but not very musical. A DAC designed for enjoying music (like that of the Compass), rather than analysing it (like the E-MU) will probably sound different.


----------



## nv88

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've seen the DAC of the E-MU 0404 described as very detailed, but not very musical. A DAC designed for enjoying music (like that of the Compass), rather than analysing it (like the E-MU) will probably sound different._

 

Yes, the EMU was very crisp and clear, but tended to be a little harsh sometimes. I'm just trying to get an idea of what to expect. I think the headphone amplifier will be as eye opening to me as the DAC.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've seen the DAC of the E-MU 0404 described as very detailed, but not very musical. A DAC designed for enjoying music (like that of the Compass), rather than analysing it (like the E-MU) will probably sound different._

 

I own both an EMU 0404 usb and a DAC-100, which is basically a dac section only of the Compass.
 In my opinion the 0404 usb and the DAC-100 have different sound signatures but I wouldn’t say that the 0404 usb is more detailed. In fact, the EMU is a little light on the bass and is more foreword on the mid-highs. By doing a quick comparison, one can mistake the EMU sound signature as very detailed. 
 However, I have come to find that not only the DAC-100 is smoother sounding, but it is more detailed than the EMU-0404 usb: it has much stronger bass and more refined mids and highs (with the earth HDAM installed). For instance, instruments on live recordings sound more real with the dac-100.
 However, I am keeping the emu as a transport (spdif) since it yields much better results than the USB input of the DAC-100.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I own both an EMU 0404 usb and a DAC-100, which is basically a dac section only of the Compass.
 In my opinion the 0404 usb and the DAC-100 have different sound signatures but I wouldn’t say that the 0404 usb is more detailed. In fact, the EMU is a little light on the bass and is more foreword on the mid-highs. By doing a quick comparison, one can mistake the EMU sound signature as very detailed. 
 However, I have come to find that not only the DAC-100 is smoother sounding, but it is more detailed than the EMU-0404 usb: it has much stronger bass and more refined mids and highs (with the earth HDAM installed). For instance, instruments on live recordings sound more real with the dac-100.
 However, I am keeping the emu as a transport (spdif) since it yields much better results than the USB input of the DAC-100._

 

Thanks for that, that's very valuable information. It's also exactly how I thought a comparison between the two DACs would turn out.


----------



## idunno

nv88: the Compass is a substantial improvement over the D1, imo. My initial impressions of the differences have only been strengthened with burn-in. I haven’t heard the D10, but I can’t imagine that it would compare with the Compass.

 I’m also starting to suspect that the D1 is not quite enough amp for the DT-250/250 I’ve been using at work, or maybe the DT-250 simply has great synergy with the Compass. In general the Compass sq is much improved over the D1, but it seems that the difference is more significant with the DT-250 than with the HD650 or DT-880; though this may be my head playing tricks on me. Over the weekend I’ll try to bring the DT-250 and D1 home, to do some direct comparisons, along with the other tests and comparisons I can now do, since I’m well over the magic 400 now.


----------



## rx7mark

Anybody know if Kingwa is planning a modest 2 channel amp in the same chassis footprint as the Compass/C2C? I thought I had read something about this, but can't find it now.

 I would really like to see a nice matching 2 channel amp to use with my compass to drive full size speakers. I'm currently doing this with an old Dennon integrated, but after listening to the Compass by headphone I would like something that comes closer to that sound quality for speakers.

 Current Audio-GD amp offerings are a little out of my budget. I was thinking of something under $500. Of course there are other brands, but I'm feeling partial to Audio-GD at the moment.

 If nobody has any info, I will contact Kingwa.

 Mark


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rx7mark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody know if Kingwa is planning a modest 2 channel amp in the same chassis footprint as the Compass/C2C? I thought I had read something about this, but can't find it now.

 I would really like to see a nice matching 2 channel amp to use with my compass to drive full size speakers. I'm currently doing this with an old Dennon integrated, but after listening to the Compass by headphone I would like something that comes closer to that sound quality for speakers.

 Current Audio-GD amp offerings are a little out of my budget. I was thinking of something under $500. Of course there are other brands, but I'm feeling partial to Audio-GD at the moment.

 If nobody has any info, I will contact Kingwa.

 Mark_

 


 As far as I know.. you will see one on Mid April.. its a power amp, but you can use the Compass as a preamp..and its going to be below your budget - (as far as I know).. Compass dimensions, maybe slightly more height and will have enough juice to drive full size speakers ..


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I own both an EMU 0404 usb and a DAC-100, which is basically a dac section only of the Compass.
 In my opinion the 0404 usb and the DAC-100 have different sound signatures but I wouldn’t say that the 0404 usb is more detailed. In fact, the EMU is a little light on the bass and is more foreword on the mid-highs. By doing a quick comparison, one can mistake the EMU sound signature as very detailed. 
 However, I have come to find that not only the DAC-100 is smoother sounding, but it is more detailed than the EMU-0404 usb: it has much stronger bass and more refined mids and highs (with the earth HDAM installed). For instance, instruments on live recordings sound more real with the dac-100.
*However, I am keeping the emu as a transport (spdif) since it yields much better results than the USB input of the DAC-100.*_

 

Thanks for sharing, I'll be upgrading from 0404 USB too.

 What did you find better by using EMU as the transport (other than 24/96 by USB)? I thought Compass USB input should be better than EMU as a transport since it bypasses SPDIF and sends I2S straight to the DAC chip. I guess I have to compare both ways.


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I know.. you will see one on Mid April.. its a power amp, but you can use the Compass as a preamp..and its going to be below your budget - (as far as I know).. Compass dimensions, maybe slightly more height and will have enough juice to drive full size speakers ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Sandchak, 
 Thats great news, thanks for confirming, and this aligns with what I remember. Yes the plan is to use this with the Compass as preamp with this power amp to drive speakers. It will be great to be able to switch back and forth between speakers and headphones based on a flip of a switch on the compass.

 Now to restock the wallet by the time it is available!

 Mark


----------



## D.C.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is quite funny. I asked Kingwa about whether the C2C would work balanced, and he replied he could put two of them in a big box to work balanced. Before I knew it, he said he'd completed the design and was wondering how many inputs it should have!_

 

That guy is from a different planet.


----------



## ScottieB

Yeah planet awesome!


----------



## D.C.

Curra, dude everybody knows you got the Ref 1 post some pics and first impressions, when you can pls. Thank you.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for sharing, I'll be upgrading from 0404 USB too.

 What did you find better by using EMU as the transport (other than 24/96 by USB)? I thought Compass USB input should be better than EMU as a transport since it bypasses SPDIF and sends I2S straight to the DAC chip. I guess I have to compare both ways._

 

As you pointed out EMU 0404 USB lets you output up to 24/96 through spdif vs. 16/44 for the Compass/dac-100.
 However, when using Foobar 0.8.3 (with otachan ASIO), I noticed that I get better results when using the 0404 as a transport even without upsampling (at 24/44). But the improvement becomes very dependant on the spdif cable used to connect both units : with the Belkin silver series and the canare coax, the improvement is small. But it is when I switched to a “high end” spdif cable (Sobek digital cable) that I got a big difference. With the Sobek spdif cable, the bass is stronger, the highs are more extended and the soundstage is bigger. In fact this cable is very nice as it combines and exceeds every qualities of the two other spdif cables I own.

 As for why EMU would give better result than DAC-100/Compass, it was a mystery for me too at first. But there are numerous facts that may explain the differences. Granted the PCM2707 usb chip used in the DAC-100/Compass outputs I2S which doesn’t add jitter (as spdif does) but if there is no reclocking, the jitter present in the usb pcm2707 is not removed. I remember reading somewhere that jitter in pcm2707 is very high (over 1000ps).
 When going through the 0404 usb, there is a lot of advantages : custom asio drivers vs. generic asio4all drivers, a better usb chip (?) that accepts 24 bit streams, and the streams goes through the DIR9001 spdif receiver that is supposed to be of a lower value, … There might other advantages such us isolation from the computer (?) or some of the points I listed might not have any effect on the sound.

 In conclusion, I have found in my setup the 0404 usb better sounding that direct usb but I think everybody should try for themselves and trust what sounds best to their ears


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *D.C.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Curra, dude everybody knows you got the Ref 1 post some pics and first impressions, when you can pls. Thank you._

 

Try here.


----------



## PPkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As you pointed out EMU 0404 USB lets you output up to 24/96 through spdif vs. 16/44 for the Compass/dac-100.
 However, when using Foobar 0.8.3 (with otachan ASIO), I noticed that I get better results when using the 0404 as a transport even without upsampling (at 24/44). But the improvement becomes very dependant on the spdif cable used to connect both units : with the Belkin silver series and the canare coax, the improvement is small. But it is when I switched to a “high end” spdif cable (Sobek digital cable) that I got a big difference. With the Sobek spdif cable, the bass is stronger, the highs are more extended and the soundstage is bigger. In fact this cable is very nice as it combines and exceeds every qualities of the two other spdif cables I own.

 As for why EMU would give better result than DAC-100/Compass, it was a mystery for me too at first. But there are numerous facts that may explain the differences. Granted the PCM2707 usb chip used in the DAC-100/Compass outputs I2S which doesn’t add jitter (as spdif does) but if there is no reclocking, the jitter present in the usb pcm2707 is not removed. I remember reading somewhere that jitter in pcm2707 is very high (over 1000ps).
 When going through the 0404 usb, there is a lot of advantages : custom asio drivers vs. generic asio4all drivers, a better usb chip (?) that accepts 24 bit streams, and the streams goes through the DIR9001 spdif receiver that is supposed to be of a lower value, … There might other advantages such us isolation from the computer (?) or some of the points I listed might not have any effect on the sound.

 In conclusion, I have found in my setup the 0404 usb better sounding that direct usb but I think everybody should try for themselves and trust what sounds best to their ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

there's something which puzzles me... how does digital transmission over different coax cables affect the sound quality?


----------



## Eric M

So there's no way I can send 24bit/192khz to the Compass from my computer? I have a few 24/192 Blu-rays I was hoping to be able to hear at full res.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eric M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So there's no way I can send 24bit/192khz to the Compass from my computer? I have a few 24/192 Blu-rays I was hoping to be able to hear at full res._

 


 The Ref 1 has a problem with 192Khz also. It will accept 192 but downsample to 96khz I believe.

 .


----------



## acetylcholine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PPkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_there's something which puzzles me... how does digital transmission over different coax cables affect the sound quality?_

 

Line induced jitter.


----------



## Aleatoris

=/ don't get started. There's a USB cable thread in the computer audio forum going right now, and I think that might explode.
 No cable talk please.

 On another note, I hope that my compass ships out this week...


----------



## Olev

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I know.. you will see one on Mid April.. its a power amp, but you can use the Compass as a preamp..and its going to be below your budget - (as far as I know).. Compass dimensions, maybe slightly more height and will have enough juice to drive full size speakers ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So it will be a Class-D (or class-t) amplifier? Like for example Winsome Labs

 Can someone give some more information about this? I'm planning on buying that Winsome Mouse, but if Kingwa has his own class-d amp coming then I better wait.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So it will be a Class-D (or class-t) amplifier? Like for example Winsome Labs

 Can someone give some more information about this? I'm planning on buying that Winsome Mouse, but if Kingwa has his own class-d amp coming then I better wait._

 

It is surely not a Class T amp or T-amp as we commonly say, its more in line with his existing amp (S1) which will be in Compass size (more height possibly)..

 S1 .. ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 although it will be not an integrated amp like S1 but power amp.

 EDIT - The new power amp will be Class AB.. hope this helps


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As for why EMU would give better result than DAC-100/Compass, it was a mystery for me too at first. But there are numerous facts that may explain the differences. Granted the PCM2707 usb chip used in the DAC-100/Compass outputs I2S which doesn’t add jitter (as spdif does) but if there is no reclocking, the jitter present in the usb pcm2707 is not removed. I remember reading somewhere that jitter in pcm2707 is very high (over 1000ps).
 When going through the 0404 usb, there is a lot of advantages : custom asio drivers vs. generic asio4all drivers, a better usb chip (?) that accepts 24 bit streams, and the streams goes through the DIR9001 spdif receiver that is supposed to be of a lower value, … There might other advantages such us isolation from the computer (?) or some of the points I listed might not have any effect on the sound.

 In conclusion, I have found in my setup the 0404 usb better sounding that direct usb but I think everybody should try for themselves and trust what sounds best to their ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I might be wrong about this, but doesn't the E-MU use a form of block-mode transfer (asynchronous) for it's USB signal transfer? That would make it far less susceptible to interference and read-errors than the ordinary real-time USB of the Compass.


----------



## nv88

Put my on the list with all the others who failed to resist temptation. My order is in for a Compass and a Moon.

 So the suggested burnin is around 400 hours with all jumpers in... That's Soft2 setting correct?

 Am I the only cheapskate who didn't buy the upgraded custom power cable? Hopefully the unit will be great even without the nicer cable.


----------



## PPkiller

*burning in*


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nv88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I the only cheapskate who didn't buy the upgraded custom power cable? Hopefully the unit will be great even without the nicer cable._

 

I doubt you are the only one, but you will want to find an upgraded power cable. From what I have read it actually does make a huge difference. You don't need to buy the one from Kingwa (even though I did), but some of the high end users on here have found cheaper options that are just as good. 

 I don't remember who it was, but someone on H-Fi uses the Jellyfish cable and swears by it, and it is half the cost of the Audio-GD one.

Linky


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PPkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*burning in*_

 

Really? What does it feel like? 

 .....Oh, you were talking about the Compass.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nv88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I the only cheapskate who didn't buy the upgraded custom power cable? Hopefully the unit will be great even without the nicer cable._

 

Since you are getting only the stock power cable, make sure you have mentioned the type (USA). Seems some in the final 30 batch have ended up getting the wrong one.


----------



## PPkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really? What does it feel like? 

 .....Oh, you were talking about the Compass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

the needle is vibrating violently.. hopefully it will straighten up after gaining more experience...


----------



## ExtraNice

too gosh darn bad that jellyfish cable don't ship to Australia.


----------



## tj2220

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I doubt you are the only one, but you will want to find an upgraded power cable. From what I have read it actually does make a huge difference. You don't need to buy the one from Kingwa (even though I did), but some of the high end users on here have found cheaper options that are just as good. 

 I don't remember who it was, but someone on H-Fi uses the Jellyfish cable and swears by it, and it is half the cost of the Audio-GD one.

Linky_

 

OT: No offence, but have you people seen what kind of cables come to your power sockets in your homes? Or what kind of fuse board you have and how it effects the sound of your audio equipment? Or thought about what kind of cables, fuses substation bays, transformers and connections there are between the power plant and that socket? Somehow it seems to me quite ridiculous to think that the last 2 meters of that path would make any miraculous difference to the sound quality of any audio component. Well, if the power cable WAS the "weakest link" in that chain, i suppose there could be a tiny theoretical chance it could make some minor difference, but i seriously doubt it. There's a single copper wire likely about 1,5 mm in diameter behind that power socket, how is that better than your stock power cable?


----------



## PPkiller

maybe it act as some low pass filter or something...


----------



## greenarrow

Just received my long awaited Compass. The default Earth is bright to my K702. Replaced it with a Moon and the SQ is much better to my pair of non-audiophile ears.

 Must I have all the jumpers in a closed position for the burning period? Is the foam still necessary to have it place on top of the op-amp?

 Here is a pic of the Compass ..


----------



## greenarrow

.. double post ..


----------



## tj2220

A cable is a cable, it's supposed to lead electric current, right? A filter, if one is needed should propably be built inside the amp?


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tj2220* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OT: No offence, but have you people seen what kind of cables come to your power sockets in your homes? Or what kind of fuse board you have and how it effects the sound of your audio equipment? Or thought about what kind of cables, fuses substation bays, transformers and connections there are between the power plant and that socket? Somehow it seems to me quite ridiculous to think that the last 2 meters of that path would make any miraculous difference to the sound quality of any audio component. Well, if the power cable WAS the "weakest link" in that chain, i suppose there could be a tiny theoretical chance it could make some minor difference, but i seriously doubt it. There's a single copper wire likely about 1,5 mm in diameter behind that power socket, how is that better than your stock power cable? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I am in IT, not an electrical engineer. Plus I haven't even received my Compass yet and my only Amplifier comes with it's own ELPAC. So basically what I am saying is I don't have an answer to any of your questions. 

 What I know is this. Audiophiles on this forum that are considered to be experts when it comes to home audio or at least headphone equipment say it makes a big difference. Do I know for myself whether or not SQ is affected by it? No, but that is precisely why I purchased the upgraded power cable so I can make my own judgements if it makes a big difference or not. I figure a $60 investment now can determine whether or not I plan on spending hundreds of dollars in the future when I upgrade my equipment.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tj2220* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A cable is a cable, it's supposed to lead electric current, right? A filter, if one is needed should propably be built inside the amp?_

 






 Sorry, but we've been through this extensively much earlier in the thread. No, your right, it doesn't make sense. Not much anyways. But people say it does work, better power cords do have an effect. I'm sceptical too, but I've just received two power cords from Audio-gd (along with some other small stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and will do extensive comparisons between ordinary cables and those from Audio-gd in the coming weeks.

 That's basically the only sensible way to go about this. When you don't have the facts to make a reasoned decision about this, it's best to find out for yourself if it makes a difference for you.


----------



## Aleatoris

Probably old news but... Audio-gd plans to have shipped out all orders by the end of next week. They got some crazy magic behind the scenes. What I wouldn't do for a tour of the manufacturing facilities... 

 On another note, I had a weird dream last night where I was in China and got the chance to meet Kingwa. I think I'm going crazy =/


----------



## legend24

Correct me if I am wrong
 thanks

 I read currawong review, he mention in normal
 Computer -> Compass Dac -> headphone 
 In this case I will be only using the dac option right?

 whereas in super mode
 Computer -> compass dac-> Amplifier -> headphone
 As for this case I will be using the amp option?

 I wondered hows the performance of the dac compared to amp section. Of course there is a reason why currawong mention that going through the amp section is known as "super" mode mainly it would probably sound better, I guess. 

 But I wondered why doesnt audio gd want to build a dac/amp that go through both the dac AND amp option


----------



## tj2220

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




 No, your right, it doesn't make sense._

 

Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am in IT, not an electrical engineer. Plus I haven't even received my Compass yet and my only Amplifier comes with it's own ELPAC. So basically what I am saying is I don't have an answer to any of your questions. 

 What I know is this. Audiophiles on this forum that are considered to be experts when it comes to home audio or at least headphone equipment say it makes a big difference. Do I know for myself whether or not SQ is affected by it? No, but that is precisely why I purchased the upgraded power cable so I can make my own judgements if it makes a big difference or not. I figure a $60 investment now can determine whether or not I plan on spending hundreds of dollars in the future when I upgrade my equipment._

 

I'm not exactly an electrical engineer myself, but an automation engineer so I can't say I'm a specialist in these thigs either. I just hate the idea that people throw away their hard earned money for nothing (in these times of depression especially). I think things can get pretty stupid in these forums when everyone is chanting the same phrases over and over without proper facts or knowledge about electricity. And don't put too much trust to the opinions of the experts or "everybody else" either, thats how things started to go wrong in germany in the 30's. If possible, let's try to think for ourselves.

 Enough OT and back to the matter at hand.

 I payed my Compass final version + opa moon 26.2, so I should be among the first ones to recieve, right? I'm not very good in this waiting game... I seem get a bit annoying and trollish. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peace out.

 Ps. I hope no-one got offended, I'm a little drunk right now...


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just received my long awaited Compass. The default Earth is bright to my K702. Replaced it with a Moon and the SQ is much better to my pair of non-audiophile ears.

 Must I have all the jumpers in a closed position for the burning period? Is the foam still necessary to have it ontop of the op-amp?_

 

Keep in mind that the Compass ships in Bright mode...

 Installing all the jumpers (Soft 2) is the suggested method to burn in all modes at the same time. I'm not willing to live with the compass in Soft 2 for hundreds of hours on end... So, I (and others I believe) have been burning in in Neutral mode. I'll burn in the other settings when I feel like trying them.

 It's recommended to remove the foam, per the Compass product page and much previous discussion here.


----------



## nv88

Sorry. I really didn't mean for my comment to bring on a cable debate. Now back to talking about how great the compass sounds...


----------



## Aleatoris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *legend24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Correct me if I am wrong
 thanks

 I read currawong review, he mention in normal
 Computer -> Compass Dac -> headphone 
 In this case I will be only using the dac option right?

 whereas in super mode
 Computer -> compass dac-> Amplifier -> headphone
 As for this case I will be using the amp option?

 I wondered hows the performance of the dac compared to amp section. Of course there is a reason why currawong mention that going through the amp section is known as "super" mode mainly it would probably sound better, I guess. 

 But I wondered why doesnt audio gd want to build a dac/amp that go through both the dac AND amp option
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You seem to be a bit confused. In "Super mode" the Amp and DAC are seperated, allowing you to use the DAC's line-out (which is not suitable for driving headphones) into an external amplifier. Or you can use the line-in to the amp-section connected to an external DAC.
 So:
 Computer->Compass DAC->External amp->headphones
 Other DAC->Compass amp->headphones

 In normal operation, the Amp and DAC are connected, so that it goes:
 Computer->Compass->headphones


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tj2220* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I payed my Compass final version + opa moon 26.2, so I should be among the first ones to recieve, right? I'm not very good in this waiting game... I seem get a bit annoying and trollish. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peace out.

 Ps. I hope no-one got offended, I'm a little drunk right now..._

 

Hi, let me introduce myself to you ! I was probably the first one to pay for Compass, and yet perhaps the last (of the first 18) to receive !.. In batch shipping it somehow doesn't work that way where you pay first and get first..

 PS. did you realize or is it me only, but when I am drunk I hear better !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well some news for you and everyone that ordered compass, Audio GD website reads : 

  Quote:


 Due to unavoidable circumstances (public holiday), we will not be able to ship second batch of Compass this Friday (3 April), but as I have said earlier, all compass (ordered till 31 March) shipping will be completed by next week ( by 10 April).
 Thank you for your patience.


----------



## legend24

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aleatoris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You seem to be a bit confused. In "Super mode" the Amp and DAC are seperated, allowing you to use the DAC's line-out (which is not suitable for driving headphones) into an external amplifier. Or you can use the line-in to the amp-section connected to an external DAC.
 So:
 Computer->Compass DAC->External amp->headphones
 Other DAC->Compass amp->headphones

 In normal operation, the Amp and DAC are connected, so that it goes:
 Computer->Compass->headphones_

 

Oh I see, Thanks a lot, that really clarify a lot. 
 Perhaps it is all currawong's fault, due to his wrong choice of words of "normal" and "super" that got me confused 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lolx just kidding.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Speaking of which if the case is that
 Computer->Compass DAC->External amp->headphones (amp section only)

 Other DAC-> line in >Compass amp->headphones
 this is using the amp section right

 Sorry cause I do not really understand currawong's diagram despite it being pretty detailed enough.


----------



## ttnl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I doubt you are the only one, but you will want to find an upgraded power cable. From what I have read it actually does make a huge difference. You don't need to buy the one from Kingwa (even though I did), but some of the high end users on here have found cheaper options that are just as good. 

 I don't remember who it was, but someone on H-Fi uses the Jellyfish cable and swears by it, and it is half the cost of the Audio-GD one.

Linky_

 


 Thank you, Dat_Dude. While I am hugely skeptic about the effect of cable, I think the price for this upgraded cable is worth the gamble. Thanks for saving me hundreds of dollars.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS. did you realize or is it me only, but when I am drunk I hear better !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL, actually that makes me think of a bit of research that I can pseudoscientifically extrapolate:

 Two points:

 1. Apparently having a low cholesterol diet helps with hearing. It keeps your veins and arteries clean and that includes those around the little hairs and nervous system in your ears.

 2. Alcohol cleans the arteries. You can die as an alcoholic with a completely shriveled-up liver, but your arteries will be as clean as those of a new born baby.

 So putting these together: The alcohol gives your arteries a temporary cleaning allowing you to hear better when there's a lot of alcohol in your bloodstream.

 Yes, I know this is bullsh!t. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And really OT.

 Moving on...


----------



## Hot Pixel

I'm curious; there are alot of buttons, switches and other stuff on the compass.
 Considering I'm a total, complete and utter nooblet at this stuff it got me wondering: Is there a possiblity (like some sort of combination setting) I blow up/melt my headphone/compass (or both) while tinkering with it?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, actually that makes me think of a bit of research that I can pseudoscientifically extrapolate:

 Two points:

 1. Apparently having a low cholesterol diet helps with hearing. It keeps your veins and arteries clean and that includes those around the little hairs and nervous system in your ears.

 2. Alcohol cleans the arteries. You can die as an alcoholic with a completely shriveled-up liver, but your arteries will be as clean as those of a new born baby.

 So putting these together: The alcohol gives your arteries a temporary cleaning allowing you to hear better when there's a lot of alcohol in your bloodstream.

 Yes, I know this is bullsh!t. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And really OT.

 Moving on..._

 

Just the kind of words I wanted to hear from a reliable source (biologist) to stock up a couple of Jack Daniels for this weekends auditioning!!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


 Is there a possiblity (like some sort of combination setting) I blow up/melt my headphone/compass (or both) while tinkering with it? 
 

Nothing that I can think of, just don't tinker inside the Compass ( adjusting the sound, or changing opamps or anything for that matter) without putting the power off and better still unplugging the Compass from the AC outlet.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm curious; there are alot of buttons, switches and other stuff on the compass.
 Considering I'm a total, complete and utter nooblet at this stuff it got me wondering: Is there a possiblity (like some sort of combination setting) I blow up/melt my headphone/compass (or both) while tinkering with it?_

 

Very unlikely. Unless you manage to plug the mains cable in the headphone socket or something. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But should you ever have doubts, just ask in the thread or PM one of the more knowledgeable persons around here.

 EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot, there is one thing you can do wrong and that is plugging in the opamp the wrong way round. Apparently that can possibly kill or damage both your Compass and your opamp. Just take care when you do this to follow the instructions on the Audio-gd website. Align the notch on the opamp socket with the semi-circle on the bottom of the opamp.


----------



## haloxt

I think pretty much everyone who got audio-gd's custom power cable said it improves the sound. When talking about why there's no power switch, Kingwa says:

  Quote:


 2, in low quality gear, you can't hear the sound effect with or without selectable switch, but in hi-quality gear, you can hear the difference not only with power selectable switch, but even with power cable. 
 

He was telling the truth when he said the compass is high quality 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## tj2220

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS. did you realize or is it me only, but when I am drunk I hear better !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 :_

 

Absholutley!!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tj2220* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A cable is a cable, it's supposed to lead electric current, right? A filter, if one is needed should propably be built inside the amp?_

 

And an amp is an amp and a dac is a dac.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Do you have a Compass related question ?

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *legend24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh I see, Thanks a lot, that really clarify a lot. 
 Perhaps it is all currawong's fault, due to his wrong choice of words of "normal" and "super" that got me confused 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lolx just kidding.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Speaking of which if the case is that
 Computer->Compass DAC->External amp->headphones (amp section only)

 Other DAC-> line in >Compass amp->headphones
 this is using the amp section right

 Sorry cause I do not really understand currawong's diagram despite it being pretty detailed enough._

 

First, do you understand that the Compass is really two devices in one? The two devices are: A DAC, a headphone amplifier. 

 Normally, you plug your computer (or CD player) into the back, headphones into the front, and listen to music. This uses both devices.

 The Super mode just splits the two devices so you can use just one. For example, you might want to go from a computer -> Compass (DAC) -> hi-fi. Another example would be, you have hi-fi and you want to plug in a pair of headphones, but there's no headphone socket, so you can plug in the Compass instead to be a headphone amp.

 I understand that if you don't know how regular hi-fi connects, it'll still be confusing.


----------



## greenarrow

Currawong - No wonder when I pushed in the Super button, my K702 just go into silent mode 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With this switch, can I connect a tube amp from the rear output sockets? I'm thinking of buying an entry level tube head amp. Any suggestions?


----------



## sarathcpt

From the Audio-gd home page...

*Due to unavoidable circumstances (public holiday), we will not be able to ship second batch of Compass this Friday (3 April), 
 but as I have said earlier, all compass (ordered till 31 March) shipping will be completed by next week ( by 10 April).*

 Seriously considering doing some 'yoga' for the coming few weeks to control my anxiousness .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currawong - No wonder when I pushed in the Super button, my K702 just go into silent mode 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With this switch, can I connect a tube amp from the rear output sockets? I'm thinking of buying an entry level tube head amp. Any suggestions?_

 

A DV336SE or similar would be a good choice. Use the Search feature to find some more specific info.

 Peete.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From the Audio-gd home page...

*Due to unavoidable circumstances (public holiday), we will not be able to ship second batch of Compass this Friday (3 April), 
 but as I have said earlier, all compass (ordered till 31 March) shipping will be completed by next week ( by 10 April).*

 Seriously considering doing some 'yoga' for the coming few weeks to control my anxiousness ._

 

Awwwwww, CRAP!


----------



## techfreakazoid

Upon closer examination of the cardboard shipment box, I noticed one corner is slightly compressed and that probably led to the damages. After contacting Audio-gd, Cherry offered to send new plates and another Moon. That's customer service for you!

 With over a week of use under the belt, here are a few more observations and impressions. A couple folks detected a low hum when the Compass is in standby. My 110V unit has no hum sitting on my desk two feet from my ears. Wearing the headphones and turning up the volume all the way with no music playing, it's dead silent. The Compass gets toasty and it's a good idea to not stack other electronics on top or below during burn-in or heavy use. Probably more of a safeguard for your other electronics than the Compass, with absorbing the heat dissipating from the aluminum chassis. The OPA in the socket also gets warm and the adhesive on the Audio-gd sticker seems to loosen. Are people removing the Audio-gd stickers on their OPAs?

*beyerdynamic DT880/250 Synergy*




 For the beyer Head-Fi'ers contemplating about the Compass, the headphone amp has plenty of juice to boot. At the 9dB low gain setting, my DT880/250s are comfortably set in the 9 to 9:30 range. Around 10 o'clock, it gets borderline loud. Flicking the switch to the 15dB high gain setting, the 9 o'clock position sounds like 10 o'clock on the 9dB/9:00 combo. If/when upgrade-itis hits me, the Compass amp has the reserve power to drive the 600 ohms MANUFAKTUR beyers. Out of curiosity, I plugged in my Shure SE500s (rated at 36 ohms) and the volume setting at 9dB/8:00 is plenty loud. With the volume knob turned all the way down, audio still comes through. This amp brings out the best of these head/earphones and really complements the DT880/250 adding nice depth in the bass department.

 I'm enjoying this marriage and the neutrality of the DT880 with the Earth-Neutral jumper setting is what I'm leaning towards. Soft 1 also works for a more mellow sound. I find the Bright setting a little too bright with these revealing cans, while the Soft 2 setting sounds too veiled. For those with darker phones, Bright may be your cup of tea. My DT880s are fully burned-in, while the Compass is still defrosting and will adjust my views if things change. Looking forward to experiencing the Moon's soundstage and how they pair with the DT880s.

*Movie Audio Experience*




 With a number of music genres and gaming impressions posted, I thought I would touch on the movie / TV audio experience. First, let me preface the DT880s are already solid performers in this category with detailed treble, clear midrange, and quality bass. Paired with the Compass, the movie experience gets even better. With my HTPC Windows XP > PowerDVD 6 > Pioneer DVD drive > X-Fi Platinum > Optical > Compass setup, the 'Use SPDIF' Speaker Environment option provides the best clarity for vocals and dialogue scenes. In the 'Gladiator' DVD XIX Maximus the Merciful fight scene, the DTS-ES soundtrack with the surround cheers of the crowd and tiger growls punctuated by the sharp metal on metal contact is truly enveloping.

 My second HTPC (Windows Vista, PowerDVD 8 Ultra, LG HD DVD-Blu-ray combo drive, X-Fi Prelude) is a 'noisier server' and proved to be a little more challenging getting audio to work via the Compass' Opt and Coax inputs. After some tweaking, here are the settings I used. Right click the speaker icon > Playback Devices. Set Speakers (Auzen Xi-Fi Prelude 7.1) as the default device. In the Audio Control Panel: Mode > Audio Creation Mode, Speakers > 5.1 Speakers, Encoder > Dolby Digital/DTS Encoding is Off, Bit-Matched > Enable Bit-Matched Playback. In PDVD 8, Configuration > Audio > Speaker environment is Use S/PDIF. Depending on the movie, Output mode can be 'Only primary audio', 'Stereo' or any of the surround or virtual environments to suit your personal tastes. The soundstage improves for the surround effects though there is some added reverb.

 Initially, I had no luck with audio via the Compass' Coax and Opt inputs so using the USB input and bypassing the X-Fi Prelude, I was able to get audio working through PDVD. If you're going with USB, right click the speaker icon > Playback Devices. Set Speakers (USB Audio Device) as the default device. Listening to the '300' Blu-ray's Dolby TrueHD or LPCM soundtracks, the lossless resolution simply sounds amazing! Dialogue is crisp and the battle scenes have excellent dynamic range. Bass has impact and there's plenty of blood splattering soundstage!

*TV Audio Experience*
 In the TV audio experience, I connected my SA8300HD PVR digital outputs to the Compass' Coax and Opt inputs. Initially, all I received was static out of both digital connections. Without any luck, I decide to make the most of my X-Fi Platinum which has a front panel box with dual inputs and outputs for coax and optical. By connecting the PVR's optical out to the front panel box's optical in, and then connecting the optical out to the Compass' Opt input, I'm able to get the digital audio feed through the Compass. With two Monoprice optical cables running in and out of the front panel box, the only con with this setup is that there is a slight delay in the audio with the video and at times, it looks like a bad kung-fu lip sync.

 The second option to receiving TV audio is connecting the PVR's analog outputs to the Compass' analog Line In jacks and pressing the Super button. The volume of the audio coming from the Line In is much lower than through the digital inputs. As well, there is a loss in bass and warmth with going this route.

 Wondering if my SA8300HD is defective, I check the Settings (press twice) and in the 'Audio: Digital Out' option, Dolby Digital is highlighted. Changing the option from DD to 'Other' both of Compass' Coax and Opt DIRECT connections to the PVR are working. Hallelujah! Comparing the two setups, the DD output has more dynamic range and is livelier than the Other output direct connection into the Compass. Makes sense as the source audio was a DD 5.1 broadcast. I wonder if Kingwa is willing to consider Dolby decoders in future products. That would make for a truly versatile and scaleable Compass for all digital audio sources.

 Lastly, I captured a number of OTA HD DD 5.1 broadcasts with my ATSC tuner card and compared them with the same shows via the HD feed > SA8300HD DD to Compass setup. As expected, the OTA HD source provides a brighter and more dynamic TV audio experience through my HTPC to Compass setup and eliminates the minor lip sync problem with the PVR. Compass adds warmth to vocals and dialogue.

 Hope my experience helps those sitting on the fence and save a few hours in the due diligence and tinkering process. Back to burn-in and savoring the sweet sounds of the Compass.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The Compass has no provision for decoding Dolby digital just plain old PCM data streams.

 Peete.


----------



## PPkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll do a comparison once my Compass and Earth reach the magic 400. Currently at 144+/- plus the 100 they shipped with. My 797's have 1000's on them. I haven't burned my Moon or Sun at all yet, so they won't be valid for comparisons any time soon._

 

hit 400? ;-p is ur 797A or 797B?


----------



## greenarrow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A DV336SE or similar would be a good choice. Use the Search feature to find some more specific info.

 Peete._

 

Thanks Peete. This is what I'm looking for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can I just purchase a usb to rca cable for the connection?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Peete. This is what I'm looking for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can I just purchase a usb to rca cable for the connection?_

 

USB to RCA?? The Darkvoice amp is just an amp, not a dac. If you wanted to use the Compass as a DAC only and have the signal amped by the Darkvoice you would simply use a RCA to RCA cable to connect the DAC out of the Compass with the RCA input of the Darkvoice. (And don't forget to press the Super button to decouple the Compass DAC from the Compass amp.)


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From the Audio-gd home page...

*Due to unavoidable circumstances (public holiday), we will not be able to ship second batch of Compass this Friday (3 April), 
 but as I have said earlier, all compass (ordered till 31 March) shipping will be completed by next week ( by 10 April).*

 Seriously considering doing some 'yoga' for the coming few weeks to control my anxiousness ._

 

Of course, a cynic would say that Kingwa personally lied to me.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of course, a cynic would say that Kingwa personally lied to me._

 

Thank goodness we don't have any cynics around here, eh?

 But really, can't you tell the difference between a lie and a minor misjudgement in manufacturing logistics?

 If you're looking for lies, go read the stories about Singlepower.


----------



## insyte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of course, a cynic would say that Kingwa personally lied to me._

 

He probably just overlooked it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least he's very transparent about the shipping schedule


----------



## Currawong

I just had an interesting experience: I purchased an Audiotrac Prodigy Cube for its 24/96 USB feature, as it has coax and optical out. Using it with the coax output and a single Van Den Hul The First Ultimate cable with the Compass (most VDH analogue cables are 75 Ohms so they can be conveniently used for digital as well), the result was smoother sound than with my usual VDH Optocoupler direct from my Mac. Smoother than USB as well, which didn't sound very different from the optical connection. Now, of course this is a bit illogical, as the Prodigy Cube is connected via USB...


----------



## PPkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *acetylcholine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Line induced jitter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

maybe it's true...


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now, of course this is a bit illogical, as the Prodigy Cube is connected via USB..._

 

But does the Prodigy Cube use the same kind of USB signal transfer as an ordinary USB connection...? That seems to be the crux.


----------



## PPkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just had an interesting experience: I purchased an Audiotrac Prodigy Cube for its 24/96 USB feature, as it has coax and optical out. Using it with the coax output and a single Van Den Hul The First Ultimate cable with the Compass (most VDH analogue cables are 75 Ohms so they can be conveniently used for digital as well), the result was smoother sound than with my usual VDH Optocoupler direct from my Mac. Smoother than USB as well, which didn't sound very different from the optical connection. Now, of course this is a bit illogical, as the Prodigy Cube is connected via USB..._

 


 could it be some resampling taking place at Prodigy Cube that converts 44.1 to 48khz? how about trying optical from Prodigy Cube and hear if it has the same smoother effect as with the coaxial?


----------



## greenarrow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_USB to RCA?? The Darkvoice amp is just an amp, not a dac. If you wanted to use the Compass as a DAC only and have the signal amped by the Darkvoice you would simply use a RCA to RCA cable to connect the DAC out of the Compass with the RCA input of the Darkvoice. (And don't forget to press the Super button to decouple the Compass DAC from the Compass amp.)_

 

For the above method, must I still use the PC usb as a source, something like this ...

 PC -> USB -> Compass DAC output -> Darkvoice input.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the above method, must I still use the PC usb as a source, something like this ...

 PC -> USB -> Compass DAC output -> Darkvoice input._

 

Yes, that's it. 

 (And don't forget to plug your headphones in the Darkvoice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PPkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_could it be some resampling taking place at Prodigy Cube that converts 44.1 to 48khz? how about trying optical from Prodigy Cube and hear if it has the same smoother effect as with the coaxial?_

 

Not considering my Mac outputs 24/96 both via optical and to the Cube. It advertises bit-perfect transfer on their web site. It's more likely that USB and optical have significant jitter and that the USB chip in the Cube is superior in some way. I've told Kingwa about it too, by the way, as he is investigating 24/96 over USB.


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grats on 3,333 posts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kind of late to say this now, but I have to recant what I said about earth being much better than the moon in the compass. I was using a very smoothed HFI-2200 before, so combining it with the moon was like applying crossfeed twice. But with pretty sterile sounding Pro 900's I much prefer the moon which makes it sound interesting, almost as smoothed out as my HFI-2200's with earth. So I recommend the moon to people who think their headphones are excessively analytical and boring, and earth to people who use headphones that already have a lot of character._

 

what about bass quantity and quality ? i'm a basshead and i'm looking for a good deal to replace my dt770/80 with proline 750's, is moon more bass heavy than earth ?


----------



## PPkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not considering my Mac outputs 24/96 both via optical and to the Cube. It advertises bit-perfect transfer on their web site. It's more likely that USB and optical have significant jitter and that the USB chip in the Cube is superior in some way. I've told Kingwa about it too, by the way, as he is investigating 24/96 over USB._

 

ah!!!!.. compass 1.1v


----------



## PPkiller

thinking of it.. maybe a individual usb to coaxial/optical spdif dongle with 24/96 over usb will be nice... other dac users will be happy with that too.. 

 edit: with native asio & bit perfect output... :-x


----------



## SoFGR

got upgrade-ditis and i am still debating on wether to get 750 or D2000, but first i need some feedback on D2000's synergy with the compass, c'mon denon owners don't be shy


----------



## theBigD

dont have the d2000. have d7000 and compass synergizes very nicely. excellent dynamics, impact in the bass region and opens up the soundstage very nicely. with the improved power cable no hint of sibilance. I think its excellent with the denon sig.


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what about bass quantity and quality ? i'm a basshead and i'm looking for a good deal to replace my dt770/80 with proline 750's, is moon more bass heavy than earth ?_

 

Yea, the Moon is quite a bit more bass heavy than the Earth. Ive been to busy to listen or do any major listening updates lately (and next week wont be much better), but hopefully before too long.

 I should be getting close to the 80% burn in mark on my Moon as Im nearing the 600 hour mark and my Earth took the first 250-300 hours, so Im looking to swap to the Sun this weekend. Ill compare the Sun+Soft1/2 with my favorite Moon+Bright.

 I will quickly comment that the bass has improved significantly. This is likely both the HDAM and the Compass burning in. The bass impact that used to be even a bit excessive for me in this combination has become more refined. The bass notes are more precise and properly defined from their neighbors. Impact is there but now it doesnt bleed over frequency ranges it shouldnt.


----------



## K3cT

I still can't decide whether I like the Moon or Earth best, each of them has its own strengths: Earth with its dynamics and mids, Moon with its soundstage and smoothness.


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PPkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hit 400? ;-p is ur 797A or 797B?_

 

Yeah, I reached 400 last Sunday (even by conservative estimates of what Kingwa put on it), but work's been keeping me too busy to do any comparisons... I'm planning to do some testing/playing this weekend.

 I've got the AD797BRZ. I'll probably also try the AD743 and some others that worked so nicely in the D1.

 I guess I should make sure that any chips I want to try are compatible, before I just stick them in there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone know the voltage ranges for the Compass opamp? Anything else I need to worry about? All the chips I have are either already dual-channel, or installed on single-to-dual adapters, and they've all been used successfully in the D1.


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank goodness we don't have any cynics around here, eh?

 But really, can't you tell the difference between a lie and a minor misjudgement in manufacturing logistics?

 If you're looking for lies, go read the stories about Singlepower._

 

I agree. Since I like Kingwa, a broken promise is not a lie.

 But, of course, a cynic would say "two strikes and counting, and this is not a tolerance test".


----------



## theBigD

Kingwas communication is top notch. His enthusiasm for product design is amazing. He takes care of customers very well, whenever ive dealt with him he promptly communicates what is happening in real time. Ive never dealt with a company this transparent. where the designer seeks our input in the designing of the product, produces it quickly and with great skill. then goes out of his way to answer emails every day.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got the AD797BRZ. I'll probably also try the AD743 and some others that worked so nicely in the D1.

 I guess I should make sure that any chips I want to try are compatible, before I just stick them in there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Anyone know the voltage ranges for the Compass opamp? Anything else I need to worry about? All the chips I have are either already dual-channel, or installed on single-to-dual adapters, and they've all been used successfully in the D1._

 

The best thing would be to email Kingwa. All the opamps I put in worked well, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.


----------



## ExtraNice

Could somebody link me to the tutorials explaining how to setup MediaMonkey/FooBar ASIO properly?

 I can't seem to find them.

 Thanks.


----------



## dBs

ASIO tutorial: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/des...ml#post5477711


----------



## Carlsan

Anybody know when it will ship if ordered now?
 thanks


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carlsan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody know when it will ship if ordered now?
 thanks_

 

Quote from the Compass page:
  Quote:


 After 10th of Apr, we can ship Compass within 4 days after the order is placed. (We will ship only on Mondays and Thursdays) 
 

So it might still take a little longer, if you order right now. But hopefully not much more than a week or so. (Which is amazing. Looking at the amount of solderwork inside, I couldn't get that finished in a year.)


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Compass has no provision for decoding Dolby digital just plain old PCM data streams.

 Peete._

 

Yes, the DD 5.1 signal from the PVR is fed through the SPDIF and decoded by the SC. I noticed in the Audio Console, the Digital Output (PCM) Sampling Rate Settings are greyed out in the SPDIF I/O tab. Does your Prelude show a similar greyed out PCM when connecting to the Compass?


----------



## sandchak

WOW !! for those who wanted a matching amp !! including myself !!.. more details on Audio GD website ..


----------



## ScottieB

Hey was just thinking - this should be possible, but would there be a potential benefit??

 Could I go, using super mode, from PC to Compass DAC, out to Little Dot MKIII, then preamp out of MKIII to Compass amp to headphones? Give me a tube preamp stage before my Compass amp? Can't try it right now, was just a thought.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey was just thinking - this should be possible, but would there be a potential benefit??

 Could I go, using super mode, from PC to Compass DAC, out to Little Dot MKIII, then preamp out of MKIII to Compass amp to headphones? Give me a tube preamp stage before my Compass amp? Can't try it right now, was just a thought._

 

You could, but it'd be pointless.


----------



## ScottieB

It would? There'd be no benefit to going to a tube amp first? Would it be BAD for the sound?


----------



## driftingbunnies

might as well just use the little dot for your headphones


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW !! for those who wanted a matching amp !! including myself !!.. more details on Audio GD website ..




_

 

Is that a speaker amp?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It would? There'd be no benefit to going to a tube amp first? Would it be BAD for the sound?_

 

What's mainly bad for the sound, is the use of all those RCA interconnect links. Each connection will degrade the sound quality. Also using a pre-amp output to feed a line-input is usually not beneficial to sound quality either. And yeah, there might just not be much point.

 But go ahead and try! We might be wrong, it might be brilliant.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that a speaker amp?_

 

Yes. Ideal for those that wish to drive a pair of passive speakers.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that a speaker amp?_

 

Yup, here's the link to the page.


----------



## ttnl

Never mind, I found out the answer to my questions.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It would? There'd be no benefit to going to a tube amp first? Would it be BAD for the sound?_

 


 Most interesting Comparison here wold be:

 Compass DAC out >> LD MK3 >> Headphone

 vs.

 Compass DAC >> Compass HeadAmp >> Headphone

 .


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most interesting Comparison here wold be:

 Compass DAC out >> LD MK3 >> Headphone

 vs.

 Compass DAC >> Compass HeadAmp >> Headphone

 ._

 

Yeah I know was just curious if the other one would be worth trying... seems most think not... but I'm gonna do it anyway


----------



## SoFGR

about the compass, i'll order one with earth and moon, since it's only 20$ extra, i'll use earth + neutral setting on my dt770/80 PRO when i want to listen to some electronica,metal, rock watch some movies or playing an action game without headphone cmss3d ( since i've found that this effect kills bass impact a LOT ) 

 If i feel like doing a little serious gaming with cmss3d i'll switch to moon and AKG 601 for huge soundstage, moon is reported to sound more mellow and laid back so i think it will suit ambient, pop and jazz perfectly, any better ideas ? would the bright setting be more appropriate for the akgs ? 

 What do you guys think ?


----------



## arfett

God this thing looks great. Once I have my 50 posts I'm going to sell my 880s and Zero and try to get one of these.


----------



## K3cT

Does anyone here end up using some jumper setting other than Neutral permanently?


----------



## Aleatoris

...wooo wee. If and when I consider a speaker set-up, I'm gonna get me one of those panthers.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone here end up using some jumper setting other than Neutral permanently?_

 

So far I've liked bright the best, but right now I'm in hardcore soft2 burn-in mode - my tune may change when I finally settle in... but if I had to choose one now and stick to it I'd go bright.


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone here end up using some jumper setting other than Neutral permanently?_

 

I use Earth and the bright setting with my Sennheiser HD650. Neutral was to dark for me.


----------



## mbd2884

Alo.

 For this interested in using the Media Monkey, discovered that the MAD mp3 decoder has weird things going on. For one of my songs, George Winston's Forest album, there is a sharp note that the decoder plays wrong. It plays fine with Foobar2K.

 I solved the problem by using the _Frauenhoffer_ II mp3 decoder, or just WinAmp's decoder. It's the same, hehe. Works great.

 FYI, Foobar decoder is based on Lame decoder, Winamp is licensed from _Frauenhoffer_ last I checked.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the DD 5.1 signal from the PVR is fed through the SPDIF and decoded by the SC. I noticed in the Audio Console, the Digital Output (PCM) Sampling Rate Settings are greyed out in the SPDIF I/O tab. Does your Prelude show a similar greyed out PCM when connecting to the Compass?









_

 

EDIT:

 Maybe I'm reading what it is your trying to say all wrong ? Which was the case once again...sorry about that. Yeah with bit perfect I/O function engaged the SPDIF tab is greyed out. As Scottie says make sure you have your output from the SC set to 2 speakers or normal stereo outs. You could use the headphone setting for experimenting but I find that setting is not all that great.


 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

I think he has his settings right, as long as the channels are mapped properly. Make sure you are set up for 2 channels or 2.1 channels, and in the 4/5.1 channel mapping box set everything mapped to 2-channel left-right. Everything else looks good - so it should use the card's built-in decoder, mix it down to 2 channels, and sent it via PCM thru whatever connection you use.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I know was just curious if the other one would be worth trying... seems most think not... but I'm gonna do it anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Kinda like a tube buffer....some things to think about,

 Impedance mismatches between the MK III I/O and and the Compass analog line in may or may not change things a little, who knows for sure. Keep the MK III vol pot low to prevent the Compass input stage from being overloaded (level wise).

 Most tube gear is 100K ohms I/O from my experience making the mix of SS and tube somewhat hit or miss.

 I think the inputs on the MK III are 100K ohm whereas the Compass is likely to be 47K ohm.

 It should work though with the Super switch engaged. Be careful regardless.

 Peete.


----------



## gilency

double post. Sorry


----------



## gilency

Does the Mac need any drivers if you use the USB port? (Mac OSX 10.5.6)
 I am planning to use the following settings: music server (iBook G4, which does not have an optical out) -> Compass USB for DAC only -> out to my amplifier -> speakers.
 Would this work?
 Alternatively, I would use: music server (iBook G4) -> to USB port of Compass (DAC+Amp) -> DT 880's.


----------



## Currawong

No drivers needed for Mac OS X. Yes and yes to both set-ups. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 On a different note, because I saw someone say it in another thread: The Compass is NOT based on the Zero DAC. It's a completely original design. The only thing duplicated, if you like, is the concept and functionality.


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No drivers needed for Mac OS X. Yes and yes to both set-ups. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a different note, because I saw someone say it in another thread: The Compass is NOT based on the Zero DAC. It's a completely original design. The only thing duplicated, if you like, is the concept and functionality._

 

thanks for the information


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The only thing similar to the Zero is the DAC chip used (AD1852) other than that the Compass is like Curra says, all original.

 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

I tried to buy the panther before reading the full product description. When I emailed Kingwa for a total and asked about how to connect it he even remembered I had a prototype compass and let me know I wouldn't be able to without preamp out. I would've bought the panther and added preamp myself to make it work but my silly father who uses speakers thinks discrete design is something from the 80's.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT:

 Maybe I'm reading what it is your trying to say all wrong ? Which was the case once again...sorry about that. Yeah with bit perfect I/O function engaged the SPDIF tab is greyed out. As Scottie says make sure you have your output from the SC set to 2 speakers or normal stereo outs. You could use the headphone setting for experimenting but I find that setting is not all that great.


 Peete._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think he has his settings right, as long as the channels are mapped properly. Make sure you are set up for 2 channels or 2.1 channels, and in the 4/5.1 channel mapping box set everything mapped to 2-channel left-right. Everything else looks good - so it should use the card's built-in decoder, mix it down to 2 channels, and sent it via PCM thru whatever connection you use._

 

Thanks guys. After a little more tinkering, the Digital Output (PCM) Sampling Rate Settings--48 or 96 KHz options are available in the Entertainment and Game Modes. In Audio Creation Mode, it doesn't matter if you check or uncheck as the PCM Sampling Rate Settings will remain greyed out. 2/2.1 or 5.1 Speakers sound identical with either the PVR DD 5.1 feed or via OTA HD 5.1 broadcast. Headphones option sounds flat. Audio Creation Mode is louder and sounds a little more dynamic than the Entertainment Mode > PCM 96 KHz setting.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Man that Panther amp is cool...........the perfect companion for a near field desktop system (looks at JBL LX44's sitting nearby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 Peete.


----------



## idunno

fyi/fwiw, from Kingwa:
 "Compass use ±16V for OPA, this range can support most OPA chips."


----------



## Currawong

haloxt: Tell your father that ICs still don't sound as good as high quality transistors and ask him to find a top-end amp that uses opamps. He wont be able to find one.

 Peete: I'm starting to think about bringing my Paradigm Atoms to Japan later in the year. The Panther would be probably a good match for them.

 idunno: I'll add that to the FAQ, thanks.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far I've liked bright the best, but right now I'm in hardcore soft2 burn-in mode - my tune may change when I finally settle in... but if I had to choose one now and stick to it I'd go bright._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use Earth and the bright setting with my Sennheiser HD650. Neutral was to dark for me._

 

Both of you use HD600/650 to come to these conclusions right? I'm testing soft1 and Earth with my D2000. The more relaxed treble is quite pleasant to the ears.


----------



## PPkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_fyi/fwiw, from Kingwa:
 "Compass use ±16V for OPA, this range can support most OPA chips."_

 


 how's the finding with the opamps u got? i'm jus a click away from ordering a pair of ad797brz if it sounds better... my browndog is in..


----------



## Shike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_haloxt: Tell your father that ICs still don't sound as good as high quality transistors and ask him to find a top-end amp that uses opamps. He wont be able to find one._

 

Corda Poweramp-1/2 and arguably any amps from Niles. Depends what you consider "top-end", and how much power is necessary. Also plenty of amplifiers use ICs at the input stage if nothing else including plenty of high-end ones.


 The reason transistors are really used today in amps is they offer more customization, can fill different power requirements, and are cheap compared to ICs that measure well (yes, there's good ICs out there). Any other impressions of ICs vs. transistors is subjective . . . besides, design is much more critical than your choice of output devices. If nothing else the Zen and B22 has showed us that much.


----------



## iron_gr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ive only used USB to connect to my computer thus far. Its the only one I can use that doesnt end up going through the XFi or motherboard audio. The goal is to bypass those components so USB was the way to go.

 As far as my XFi configuration, I have used all 3 modes (entertainment, gaming, and creation). Mic settings in Vista is mic level at 50% and mic boost gain +20% off. I had played with these before and found that they made no difference in how well people could hear me, likely because I have the settings for software exclusive control enabled as well as exclusive mode applications priority.

 In CS:S everything is cranked up with the exception of mic receiving since some people like to be screamers in CS:S =P I still get mic feedback from my own mic though (if I dont use Compass). If I drop any of the gain elements in CS:S no one can hear me.

 As far as firefights and such, I know how this can be a problem. When I used to play BF2, artillery strikes were so loud that they drown out everything else. Because of that I try to diminish bass quite a bit when gaming. Hearing BOOM! isnt as important to me as knowing where the opponent is at all times. Theres not much that can be done about removing distracting sounds though. It is what it is really. You are exactly right though, I was using XFi to my headphones directly with no amp in between. When done that way, as you said, 3D imagine is undefined. That why I was actually pretty disappointed...until the Compass, now its the best I have ever heard.

 80Ohms is actually pretty high. Its not as high as 300, but its still quite a bit. More than that though its also a matter of the headphones sensitivity. If youre finding that 3D imaging is lacking when there is no amp between your XFi and your headphones, then you know that the impedance is making a difference._

 

I have also an X-Fi music soundcard Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic - Upgrade music to the Xtreme Fidelity audio standard 
 on my PC and in order to have optical out I need this device:
Creative Sound Blaster Digital I/O Module Accessory

 Does this the same job as this?--> 3.5mm TOSLINK adapter

 Would this be a clean (pure) light signal, without a process from the sound card?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Both of you use HD600/650 to come to these conclusions right? I'm testing soft1 and Earth with my D2000. The more relaxed treble is quite pleasant to the ears._

 

Yeah I did - I actually liked bright with my (much birghter) HFI 780s, too. With soft2 is quite a bit too "dark" for the HD600s, IMO, although the 780s still sound pretty good. I should also note that ever since I switched to Senns (from Grado) I've been doing everything I can to make them brighter. I like the overall balance, but mis the forwardness of other cans... so they've been "de-veiled, I've liked the Sun previously in my Zero, etc.. I'm really only using soft2 to burn it in, once it is fully burned in I will do more experimenting. Since I have new Grados (SR325is) on the way, there's a very good chance bright will be too much. 

 Anyway what I'm saying is, I used Senns to make that determination AND my taste leans toward the brighter, more forward presentation.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iron_gr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have also an X-Fi music soundcard Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic - Upgrade music to the Xtreme Fidelity audio standard 
 on my PC and in order to have optical out I need this device:
Creative Sound Blaster Digital I/O Module Accessory

 Does this the same job as this?--> 3.5mm TOSLINK adapter

 Would this be a clean (pure) light signal, without a process from the sound card?_

 

Either of those two things would do the trick. It SHOULD be a pure digital out - I think it is, but I can't be 100%... I would assume the cable would be the less $$ option, although the I/O box gives you coax as well. I use coax from my Xfi (which has the drive bay panel) and found that coax sounded better for me - which is perfect since my mac has optical out...


----------



## gilency

which OPA would work best with DT880's or should I order at least 2? earth + moon (or sun?)


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_which OPA would work best with DT880's or should I order at least 2? earth + moon (or sun?)_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/aud...-v-2-a-397691/


----------



## oldschool

Placed my order today, still waiting for the black Neutrik plug to reach Audio-Gd.


----------



## mlarn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Both of you use HD600/650 to come to these conclusions right?_

 

I prefer the Bright setting over Neutral with the HD600's as well.


----------



## bjorn

I tried to do some quick A-B testing between the Compass HP amp and my Musical Fidelity V-Can HP amp. In both cases I used the Compass DAC to feed them, of course with the help of the Super-mode for the V-Can.

 This might seem like an uneven comparison to the people in the UK, were you might be able to get a V-Can for perhaps £100, but here in Sweden it retails for about $200. So think it's a fair fight as far as cost goes. Remember that a complete Compass is only about $310-320 including freight.

 Anyway, I'm not a seasoned tester and I'm not going to try to describe every nuance. Besides my English skills would probably not stand up to that test. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In short - the Compass HP amp was superiour. There was a much higher level of cleaness to the sound, especially noticable on vocals. The soundstage was much bigger. There was a greyness to the sound when listening through the V-Can (mind you, I have enjoyed the V-can before - this is only when I did the A-B testing that this was noticable to me). 

 The Compass bass had more weight to it. When listening to the old The Cure album, Faith, it was almost to much and listening through the V-Can felt less intimidating. Mind you, the bass is extremely high in the mix on some of the tracks on that album and this wasn't a problem in a more normal listening situation.

 The Compass had about 300-400 hours burn-in and I was using the Earth HDAM and the bright setting. The headphones where Sennheiser HD650. The music was indie-type of rock.


----------



## TCM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The headphones where Sennheiser HD650. The music was indie-type of rock._

 

I see in your sig that you also own the AKG701 - have you compared the HD650 and the AKG701 through the Compass? If you have, could you describe similaries/differences? I'm about to buy a new pair of headphones and possibly the Compass as well, so I'm curious.


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TCM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see in your sig that you also own the AKG701 - have you compared the HD650 and the AKG701 through the Compass? If you have, could you describe similaries/differences? I'm about to buy a new pair of headphones and possibly the Compass as well, so I'm curious._

 

The problem is that I've sort of overdosed on MID-FI lately 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I need to sort my equipment out and get rid of at least one of the amplifiers. What I mean by this is that there have been to many combinations to try out and to keep things simple I decided to only use the Sennheisers with the Compass. 

 But I tried the K701 with the Compass for a short session anyway during early burn-in and I feel that it could be a really good combination since the Compass, in my ears, tilts a bit towards the darker sound character.


----------



## TCM

Ok, thanks bjorn!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_haloxt: Tell your father that ICs still don't sound as good as high quality transistors and ask him to find a top-end amp that uses opamps. He wont be able to find one._

 

Agreed 100%. Although discrete is not a panacea it does represent a better way most of the time. All high end gear shy's away from IC based OPA's from my experience over the years and I'm hard pressed to remember a single preamp that uses them (Class A or even B rated).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete: I'm starting to think about bringing my Paradigm Atoms to Japan later in the year. The Panther would be probably a good match for them._

 

The Atom's are a great little 2 way. Get on the phone Curra and get them crated up and on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My problem with the LX44's is the size of them....they are big(ish) 3 ways that will need custom stands built for them (or bought ). Many a time of late I've thought of rearranging the desktop to see if I can squeeze them onto the space provided only to stop short and think ...WTH am I doing these are too bloody big 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 If I were you though I'd get those Atom's on the way ASAP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Shike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed 100%. Although discrete is not a panacea it does represent a better way most of the time. All high end gear shy's away from IC based OPA's from my experience over the years and I'm hard pressed to remember a single preamp that uses them (Class A or even B rated)._

 

A LOT of professional gear uses ICs in their preamps, namely the AD797AR which when fed negative feedback from transistors in a hybrid design provides the best distortion levels bar none.

 Transistors in amps makes sense where higher power is necessary, but in preamps ICs can really strut their stuff. They can easily stay in class A operation and obviously have shorter paths which makes more sense than higher output in such an application, especially when there's quite a selection designed JUST for this purpose (compared to a handful designed as output devices, and a slew of gross generics).

 Different horses for different courses though.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A LOT of professional gear uses ICs in their preamps, namely the AD797AR which when fed negative feedback from transistors in a hybrid design provides the best distortion levels bar none.

 Transistors in amps makes sense where higher power is necessary, but in preamps ICs can really strut their stuff. They can easily stay in class A operation and obviously have shorter paths which makes more sense than higher output in such an application, especially when there's quite a selection designed JUST for this purpose (compared to a handful designed as output devices, and a slew of gross generics).

 Different horses for different courses though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'll up your 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with a firm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 It isn't like I'm basing this opinion on no experience you know (in both worlds, pro and home audio based). The best gear ends up being discrete in nature 9 times out of 10 pro gear or not.

 Peete.


----------



## Shike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll up your 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with a firm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Which is cocky as hell and already generates an immediate dislike of you.

  Quote:


 It isn't like I'm basing this opinion on no experience you know (in both worlds, pro and home audio based). The best gear ends up being discrete in nature 9 times out of 10 pro gear or not. 
 

Is that a subjective statistic you pulled out of your arse or one with empirical evidence? Because if it's not provable your eye roll was highly uncalled for and deserves to be raised a whole face palm


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which is cocky as hell and already generates an immediate dislike of you.



 Is that a subjective statistic you pulled out of your arse or one with empirical evidence? Because if it's not provable your eye roll was highly uncalled for and deserves to be raised a whole face palm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

come on guys....no need for insults...


----------



## Shike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_come on guys....no need for insults..._

 

I'll pull my horns in, but sometimes these sweeping generalizations can't help but make my eye twitch.


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll pull my horns in, but sometimes these sweeping generalizations can't help but make my eye twitch._

 

I hope you dont own a gun!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (just joking trying to lighten up the ambience)
 Lets go back to the Compass which I am almost ready to buy.....I want to hear opinions regarding its sound with different OPA's, comparison with different headphones, with other amps, etc. Anything to help unlock the wallet.....


----------



## Chu

Citing what the pros use is also a bit odd. Most pro gear isn't as expensive as the gear we deal with.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which is cocky as hell and already generates an immediate dislike of you._

 

C'mon......your being dramatic and overly sensitive don't you think ? I figured the wink was worth a roll...I guess you don't share my sense of humor.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that a subjective statistic you pulled out of your arse or one with empirical evidence? Because if it's not provable your eye roll was highly uncalled for and deserves to be raised a whole face palm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

It based on years of experience (mine, I stated that). Please spare me the righteous indignation I've not insulted you nor implied anything other than what is obvious to me (at least). The subject is an endless debate and as such should be viewed and treated and such...that is why I posted the rolled eyes.


 Peete.


----------



## Shike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Citing what the pros use is also a bit odd. Most pro gear isn't as expensive as the gear we deal with._

 

Pro gear is used at the mastering stage so performance is critical. This is near my classification of high-end because the goal is completely put onto accurate reproduction.

 What we as head-fiers use is open to subjectivity which opens a can of worms. It also creates a debate for what's considered high-end and what's not. When one argues for what's "better" we need to set a ground level that is not subjective. Real world measurements is about the best we can go by IMO.

 Either way we should probably get away from the topic . . . it's just going to lead to a huge argument that no one will benefit from.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Citing what the pros use is also a bit odd. Most pro gear isn't as expensive as the gear we deal with._

 

Some of it is extremely expensive, it just depends on how far you are willing to go to get the best SQ...it's no different than this side of the hobby in that sense.

 The attitudes between the 2 camps on how to go about that, however, are entirely different, but that's another subject entirely.

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Has anyone else noticed the "Compass effect"? Often, I sit here, immersed in music during the evening. Midnight comes along... "Just one more track". 1am... 2am... 3am... and I'm still here, telling myself "Just the one more track"...

 I dread to think how many times I've been - forcefully - kept from my bed by that blasted Kingwa! We all think he's a god - we're wrong. He's the devil, selling superb-quality gear designed to make us fulfil our own desires rather than listen to rational thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone else noticed the "Compass effect"? Often, I sit here, immersed in music during the evening. Midnight comes along... "Just one more track". 1am... 2am... 3am... and I'm still here, telling myself "Just the one more track"...

 I dread to think how many times I've been - forcefully - kept from my bed by that blasted Kingwa! We all think he's a god - we're wrong. He's the devil, selling superb-quality gear designed to make us fulfil our own desires rather than listen to rational thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Oh yes AP......many a time I've done exactly what you've talked about (with the FrankenZERO too)...the last incident was last evening (er this morning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). Up till 4:30 am listening intently to the RE1 in the main system.

 The Compass and the C-2C inspire similar marathons that whittle away at ones self discipline leading to that oh so fashionable baggy eyed look at work the next morning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Shike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone else noticed the "Compass effect"? Often, I sit here, immersed in music during the evening. Midnight comes along... "Just one more track". 1am... 2am... 3am... and I'm still here, telling myself "Just the one more track"...

 I dread to think how many times I've been - forcefully - kept from my bed by that blasted Kingwa! We all think he's a god - we're wrong. He's the devil, selling superb-quality gear designed to make us fulfil our own desires rather than listen to rational thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

It happens to me anytime I'm listening to quality gear I enjoy. I was up till 5AM listening when I was supposed to be typing a paper . . . 

 The paper is still not done >_>


----------



## gilency

2 am today....guilty as charged (although it was not with the compass)
 My wallet is still resisting........resistance is futile...I will be assimilated......


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Yeah, that staying up til 5am listening to just one more song, reminds me of staying for just one more beer. I'm glad to know that it isn't just me. I am really impressed with how much the sound has changed in the compass, with the sun/neutral in the last few weeks. I guess the term "opens up" fits. I have been listening to Joni Mitchell's Blue cd and i really like the strings and drums, I find that acoustical and synthesizer based music paired with the compass/d5000s appeals to me. The clarity of sound just amazes me and to think that it can get better really worries me, or like gilency said, hurts the wallet. 

 I have a question about the compass and using the optical input. Whenever I watch dvd on my laptop, or use the optical out of my hdcable box to the compass I get that sound that I'm sure someone knows that I'm talking about, a distorted signal. I stayed up til 5am one too many mornings in a row and can't see what might be right in front of me.


----------



## ScottieB

Boomersooner sounds like dolby digital or DTS being sent as bitstream. You'd need it decoded by the sound card first and then sent as pcm stereo.


----------



## idunno

The limited weekend hours, nice weather, and my taxes have limited my play time, but I have managed to complete my first evaluation; AD797BRZ vs. Earth, both with Compass in neutral, using HD650. My Earth and Compass have roughly 600 hours of burn-in. I'm still learning to describe sound, so I hope you'll bear with me. It should go without saying that what follows is entirely my novice opinion and should, at best, be taken with a grain of salt. imho, ymmv, etc...


*AD797BRZ w/HD650:* Sound is fluid, and quite aggressive. Decent level of overall detail, though the sound is not excessively bright. Bass is somewhat overpowering, approaching boomy, and perhaps a bit smeared. Soundstage is reasonable but unremarkable.

*Earth w/HD650:* Musical is the best word to describe the sound. Overall detail is reasonable, perhaps somewhat less than the 797. Decidedly warmer, and more laid back than the 797. Bass is tight, detailed, and well controlled, but not lacking for power; in fact this setup may still be a bit bass heavy. Soundstage, while not extraordinary, is both more spacious and involving than with the 797.


 I decided to give the 797 a (brief) try with my AD900, since I feel that the AD900 are generally somewhat light in the bass department, and perhaps endowed with too deep a soundstage. The theory is that the deficiencies and strengths of the two might combine well.

*AD797BRZ w/AD900:* Bass is largely tamed, but still powerful; bass detail and control are decidedly improved. Soundstage is wider, more spacious, though beginning to exhibit the excessive airiness which tends to keep my AD900 on the shelf. This combination proves somewhat bright, yielding limited sibilance on susceptible tracks.

*Earth w/AD900:* The same improvements as before hold true; this combination is still more musical, with more detailed bass and a wider, livelier soundstage than with the 797 (but somehow I'm less bothered by the airiness). Sibilance was not noted, even with tracks which were problematic with the 797.


*Conclusion:* It should be noted that while I have made some sweeping statements regarding the Earth and 797, the two are really quite close in sound signature. Someone not aspiring to audiophilia would likely not hear the differences; but that's what we're here for, right? The 797 is quite enjoyable, but it seems to push the extremes too much, such that it is either too bass heavy, or too bright. I find the Earth more balanced, and more to my liking.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Boomersooner sounds like dolby digital or DTS being sent as bitstream. You'd need it decoded by the sound card first and then sent as pcm stereo._

 

Thanks Scottie, thats what it is - I forgot that I didn't have either being decoded - see that one more song catches up to you.


----------



## Skibumef

idunno, big fan of how you choose to list your location. Don't forget though, Red Sox Nation transcends political or geographical borders to eventually cover every corner of the planet!


----------



## Skibumef

As far as the Compass goes, I'm starting to get a bit worried that mine will arrive here at school after I've already gone home at the end of the month! Eek! It sounds like the perfect set-up for my tragic downfall in the second act.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_idunno, big fan of how you choose to list your location. Don't forget though, Red Sox Nation transcends political or geographical borders to eventually cover every corner of the planet!_

 

Except the Bronx 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## mlarn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B00MERS00NER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, that staying up til 5am listening to just one more song, reminds me of staying for just one more beer. I'm glad to know that it isn't just me. I am really impressed with how much the sound has changed in the compass, with the sun/neutral in the last few weeks. I guess the term "opens up" fits. I have been listening to Joni Mitchell's Blue cd and i really like the strings and drums, I find that acoustical and synthesizer based music paired with the compass/d5000s appeals to me. The clarity of sound just amazes me and to think that it can get better really worries me, or like gilency said, hurts the wallet. _

 

I was listening to Blue through the Compass as I read your post! Ive noticed on 2 or 3 songs there were some intricate guitar work that I have never picked up on after listening to the CD countless times. I have noticed piano details in other CD's that I never caught before either. Good stuff.


----------



## B00MERS00NER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mlarn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was listening to Blue through the Compass as I read your post! Ive noticed on 2 or 3 songs there were some intricate guitar work that I have never picked up on after listening to the CD countless times. I have noticed piano details in other CD's that I never caught before either. Good stuff. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Discovering old music again like this is amazing. Is that what the term transparency means? The being able to pick up those details? Hearing the pick scrape along the ridges of the strings, or how the echo of the vocals as they bounce of the walls in the background. I'm listening to Foreigner Juke Box Hero and that intro never sounded so juicy, I don't know what that instrument is, but its definitely the best part of that song in my opinion.


----------



## PPkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The limited weekend hours, nice weather, and my taxes have limited my play time, but I have managed to complete my first evaluation; AD797BRZ vs. Earth, both with Compass in neutral, using HD650. My Earth and Compass have roughly 600 hours of burn-in. I'm still learning to describe sound, so I hope you'll bear with me. It should go without saying that what follows is entirely my novice opinion and should, at best, be taken with a grain of salt. imho, ymmv, etc...


*AD797BRZ w/HD650:* Sound is fluid, and quite aggressive. Decent level of overall detail, though the sound is not excessively bright. Bass is somewhat overpowering, approaching boomy, and perhaps a bit smeared. Soundstage is reasonable but unremarkable.

*Earth w/HD650:* Musical is the best word to describe the sound. Overall detail is reasonable, perhaps somewhat less than the 797. Decidedly warmer, and more laid back than the 797. Bass is tight, detailed, and well controlled, but not lacking for power; in fact this setup may still be a bit bass heavy. Soundstage, while not extraordinary, is both more spacious and involving than with the 797.


 I decided to give the 797 a (brief) try with my AD900, since I feel that the AD900 are generally somewhat light in the bass department, and perhaps endowed with too deep a soundstage. The theory is that the deficiencies and strengths of the two might combine well.

*AD797BRZ w/AD900:* Bass is largely tamed, but still powerful; bass detail and control are decidedly improved. Soundstage is wider, more spacious, though beginning to exhibit the excessive airiness which tends to keep my AD900 on the shelf. This combination proves somewhat bright, yielding limited sibilance on susceptible tracks.

*Earth w/AD900:* The same improvements as before hold true; this combination is still more musical, with more detailed bass and a wider, livelier soundstage than with the 797 (but somehow I'm less bothered by the airiness). Sibilance was not noted, even with tracks which were problematic with the 797.


*Conclusion:* It should be noted that while I have made some sweeping statements regarding the Earth and 797, the two are really quite close in sound signature. Someone not aspiring to audiophilia would likely not hear the differences; but that's what we're here for, right? The 797 is quite enjoyable, but it seems to push the extremes too much, such that it is either too bass heavy, or too bright. I find the Earth more balanced, and more to my liking._

 

cheers.. thanks.. now i'll hold off getting the 797... 

 now i'll look forward to other opamps(ad743, those that do well in D1) comparison from you..


----------



## Drosera

Thirty more Compasses starting out on their journey.

 (Please keep in mind that you probably won't receive your tracking number today yet. EDIT: Oh wait, I guess they're being sent already too.)


----------



## tj2220

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thirty more Compasses starting out on their journey.

 (Please keep in mind that you probably won't receive your tracking number today yet.)_

 

Yippee! Got my DHL tracking number, the email was sent 3 hours ago.


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Except the Bronx 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

I was about to comment on the universality of The Nation, but I guess you're right about that one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Woohoo! Opening Day!


----------



## idunno

The theory of burning-in in Soft 2 is that by engaging all the jumpers, you're burning all of the possible modes at the same time, correct? Does that mean that using Neutral will also burn Bright mode, since Bright involves no jumpers at all?

 Please correct me if I'm wrong... I'm just hoping that despite skipping the “fast burn in” approach, I've gotten somewhat of a two-for-one deal.


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tj2220* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my DHL tracking number_

 

x2.


----------



## ExtraNice

Sigh... still haven't got mine. The wait is killing me!


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yepyep_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2._

 

x3. DHL hasn't updated their site yet though. How long have they been taking from China to the US?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x3. DHL hasn't updated their site yet though. How long have they been taking from China to the US?_

 

I think shipping usually takes 3-5 days. Perhaps slightly longer for European countries because they can get stuck with long customs delays. (Or even Canada, just ask Peete.) It usually takes a bit of time to gather momentum, but once it's flying (usually from the time it left "Hong Kong-Hub"), things can go surprisingly fast.

 The above pertains to DHL, I don't know how long it will take with EMS.


----------



## WallyPower

X4 It's still at the Hong-Kong hub as we speak..


----------



## nv88

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sigh... still haven't got mine. The wait is killing me!_

 

Surprise! I seem to be on the list even though it's a few days earlier than Cherry said. I haven't seen an email. I've got so much spam to sort through on Mondays. Is the email from Audio-ad or DHL?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nv88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Surprise! I seem to be on the list even though it's a few days earlier than Cherry said. I haven't seen an email. I've got so much spam to sort through on Mondays. Is the email from Audio-ad or DHL?_

 

From Audio GD..

 Good to know its been shipped earlier than what was said to you..


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nv88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Surprise! I seem to be on the list even though it's a few days earlier than Cherry said. I haven't seen an email. I've got so much spam to sort through on Mondays. Is the email from Audio-ad or DHL?_

 

Well, this is not good. I ordered mine on March 21 and you're getting yours already? Didn't you just order yours a week ago?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, this is not good. I ordered mine on March 21 and you're getting yours already? Didn't you just order yours a week ago?_

 

I hope there isn't actually some confusion. Since only first names are indicated on the shipment page and the batches are really large, there's bound to be several people with the same first name (especially from the US).


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope there isn't actually some confusion. Since only first names are indicated on the shipment page and the batches are really large, there's bound to be several people with the same first name (especially from the US)._

 

Nope...no Doug or Douglas on the list.


----------



## nv88

I ordered mine on April 1st. I suppose there could be two people with the same first name in the US that are using DHL. Since I'm kind lower down on the list, I hoped that was me, but I haven't gotten an email yet, so maybe it's someone else with the same name. Cherry said mine should ship out April 12th. So this would be WAY EARLY.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nv88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered mine on April 1st. I suppose there could be two people with the same first name in the US that are using DHL. Since I'm kind lower down on the list, I hoped that was me, but I haven't gotten an email yet, so maybe it's someone else with the same name. Cherry said mine should ship out April 12th. So this would be WAY EARLY._

 

Ah...I see what Drosera was saying now after reading your post. I sent an email to Cherry asking for a ship date.


----------



## Drosera

Deleted. Now redundant.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nv88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered mine on April 1st. I suppose there could be two people with the same first name in the US that are using DHL. Since I'm kind lower down on the list, I hoped that was me, but I haven't gotten an email yet, so maybe it's someone else with the same name. Cherry said mine should ship out April 12th. So this would be WAY EARLY._

 

Well as Kingwa said on his website.. all orders booked till 31st March gets shipped this week.. but you say you ordered on the 1st April. So maybe, maybe you are not the one the list says.. maybe someone else with the same first name from the US..not sure though..


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sigh... still haven't got mine. The wait is killing me!_

 

I'm in the same boat, although I'm still in shock that they're sending them as early as they are. I thought it would take much longer for him to organize, assemble and ship as many Compasses as there appear to be ordered. Incredible work. 
 I sure wish that the ship list for the next shipments was up as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I just have to sit on my hands and wait with the rest of the people who haven't had theirs shipped yet.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


 Originally Posted by ExtraNice View Post
 Sigh... still haven't got mine. The wait is killing me! 
 

You're waiting! I paid for mine on Feb 7, and it hasn't shipped.

 .


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're waiting! I paid for mine on Feb 7, and it hasn't shipped.

 ._

 

I would definitely send an email to Cherry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Just received a reply from Cherry. Man, they are fast. Mine will ship this week.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would definitely send an email to Cherry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Numerous conversations...

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edit: Just received a reply from Cherry. Man, they are fast. Mine will ship this week._

 

Yup, and did you realise how late it is overthere? Talk about a 24 hour economy...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Numerous conversations...

 ._

 


 Edited: I was kidding.. I am sure there is a reason for the delay..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Numerous conversations...

 ._

 

You two must be developing quite a relationship.


----------



## nv88

Sigh... I'm not the one of the list. I emailed Cherry and my new estimated ship date is the middle of the month. It was exciting for a few minutes though.


----------



## cyberidd

So I have a question, I never got an emailed confirmation that they got my payment for the Compass, other than a couple of the automatic response emails. Should I send them another one to check if they know that I sent $, etc?


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edited: I was kidding.. I am sure there is a reason for the delay.._

 

Lol that was a pretty hilarious post before the edit, but I think this has something to do with him also getting a Ref 1 which has a 3 week+ wait or something. If anyone is wondering why the stuff takes so long to construct, it's all hand-made...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I have a question, I never got an emailed confirmation that they got my payment for the Compass, other than a couple of the automatic response emails. Should I send them another one to check if they know that I sent $, etc?_

 

It should be fine, your paypal account has your email info.

 edit: ignore the above I give bad advice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol that was a pretty hilarious post before the edit, but I think this has something to do with him also getting a Ref 1 which has a 3 week+ wait or something. If anyone is wondering why the stuff takes so long to construct, it's all hand-made..._

 

I believe he already received the Ref One. But I think he understandably wanted a Compass with _his_ Super logo. So he had to wait for the new faceplates.

 Anyways, Les can explain...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol that was a pretty hilarious post before the edit, but I think this has something to do with him also getting a Ref 1 which has a 3 week+ wait or something. If anyone is wondering why the stuff takes so long to construct, it's all hand-made...



 It should be fine, your paypal account has your email info._

 

REF1 is 3 weeks past due also.

 They will not ship in the same box

 Lots of Compass shipments

 Lots of REF1 Shipments.

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I have a question, I never got an emailed confirmation that they got my payment for the Compass, other than a couple of the automatic response emails. Should I send them another one to check if they know that I sent $, etc?_

 

I think you have to send them a email saying you sent them (Audio GD) the payment through PayPal, after which you will receive a confirmation from Audio GD.. So I think you should write to them and tell them you sent the payment..

 From Audio GD website :

  Quote:


 After you make the payment, please send us an email to confirm.
 Because a lot customers' paypal accounts are different from the communicate email, so we can't sure who have paid. If we make something wrong , the customers maybe paid for the other people. 
 



 Hi haloxt !..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe he already received the Ref One. But I think he understandably wanted a Compass with his Super logo. So he had to wait for the new faceplates.

 Anyways, Les can explain..._

 

Sorry I had a fight with your Girlfriend (MBD). But you should just get on with your Life.

 .


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should be fine, your paypal account has your email info._

 

Thats what I thought, I just haven't made m*any* online purchases other than a couple ebay buys, so I was getting a little anxious when the possibility of having it ship out this week or not is at stake. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ok, now I'm not worried, just excited again!


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry I had a fight with your Girlfriend (MBD). But you should just get on with your Life.

 ._


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you have to send them a email saying you sent them (Audio GD) the payment through PayPal, after which you will receive a confirmation from Audio GD.. So I think you should write to them and tell them you sent the payment.._

 

Ok, I did this just to make sure, and as a bonus asked about my shipping date. All bases now covered (I hope)!


----------



## Dat_Dude

Does anyone that was provided a tracking number actually have tracking information yet? DHL must be really slow at updating. I just want to know expected delivery date so I can snag it before my wife sees it!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone that was provided a tracking number actually have tracking information yet? DHL must be really slow at updating. I just want to know expected delivery date so I can snag it before my wife sees it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Give another 24 hours for tracking, its in GuangZhou now and wont reach HK before tomorrow where the tracking starts..


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone that was provided a tracking number actually have tracking information yet? DHL must be really slow at updating. I just want to know expected delivery date so I can snag it before my wife sees it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is this to surprise her with its arrival or with its purchase?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry I had a fight with your Girlfriend (MBD). But you should just get on with your Life.

 ._

 

Interesting to receive all this animosity, but not having any to give back.


----------



## cyberidd

Ok, so I just got an email back from Kingwa saying they got my email and they're shipping it this week!!!!
 It still amazes me how quickly they/he answers emails and still gets the Compasses and other products done so quickly, I hope I his fingers don't spontaneously combust, or that he gets whiplash from looking back and forth from the work bench to the computer and back!!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting to receive all this animosity, but not having any to give back._

 

You started this. Do I have to read back to you the last ten or so posts you made RE things I've said. Ever since I stated you "Buddy" shouldn't be allowed back, you've been all over me.

 Look at your Profile, there's evidence of you two consummating your "Civil Union" That speaks Volumes...

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting to receive all this animosity, but not having any to give back._

 

its a sign of a happy person !..


----------



## Zanth

Mine shipped yesterday! Hoping for good things very very soon.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You started this. Do I have to read back to you the last ten or so posts you made RE things I've said. Ever since I stated you "Buddy" shouldn't be allowed back, you've been all over me._

 

By all means, give me the anthology. Could you then also pause a moment to consider what you view as venomous attacks could also be interpreted as friendly jibes? Oh well, none of those anymore, I guess they don't travel well (or at all).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look at your Profile, there's evidence of you two consummating your "Civil Union" That speaks Volumes..._

 

We were actually planning our wedding coming June. A nice outdour ceremony, followed by a boat trip on the Amsterdam canals. I was going to invite you, but...I don't know...I think I have to move you to the probationary guest list now.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By all means, give me the anthology. Could you then also pause a moment to consider what you view as venomous attacks could also be interpreted as friendly jibes? Oh well, none of those anymore, I guess they don't travel well (or at all).



 We were actually planning our wedding coming June. A nice outdour ceremony, followed by a boat trip on the Amsterdam canals. I was going to invite you, but...I don't know...I think I have to move you to the probationary guest list now._

 

He'll cheat on you.

 But deep down you know that...

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He'll cheat on you.

 But deep down you know that...

 ._

 

Yeah, I do, but...life's a bitch (and it's a bitch's life).


----------



## Zanth

Okay, I'm pressing the stop button on the soap opera and hoping to queue up some audiophile channel where I can learn more about a certain dac/amp.


----------



## WallyPower

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone that was provided a tracking number actually have tracking information yet? DHL must be really slow at updating. I just want to know expected delivery date so I can snag it before my wife sees it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Mine is working just fine, its says that my package was processed in Honkong at 0:53 the 7th of april
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: it's now airbourne and flying to the Netherlands


----------



## dBs

I should think about new panels down the road now then. No rush as the next month and a half will be an insane blur, but its one of the next things to think about =D


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WallyPower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is working just fine, its says that my package was processed in Honkong at 0:53 the 7th of april
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Actually those packages you see on Audio GD shipping status today, were shipped on Sunday (!! ) (I just asked him) to GuangZhou DHL office, DHL sometimes updates their web in a weird fashion, the Compass that were shipped to Singapore last week, their tracking was updated only this morning while they received the package in the afternoon, So the question of when will they update and who the lucky ones, is anyones guess..


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone that was provided a tracking number actually have tracking information yet?_

 


 Tuesday, April 07, 2009
 Departed Facility in Hong Kong - Hong Kong - 01:00
 Processed at Hong Kong - Hong Kong - 00:40

 Monday, April 06, 2009
 Shipment picked up - 16:45


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone that was provided a tracking number actually have tracking information yet? DHL must be really slow at updating. I just want to know expected delivery date so I can snag it before my wife sees it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If it still doesn't work tomorrow, you could check with Cherry if it's the right one. It has happened before that there was a slight error in the number that was mailed.

 EDIT: But it can also happen that you receive your package even before any information on it is made available by DHL. DHL is funny that way.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it still doesn't work tomorrow, you could check with Cherry if it's the right one. It has happened before that there was a slight error in the number that was mailed._

 

That is what I was thinking. I will give it til tomorrow morning. I got my new Senns Friday just waiting for this bad boy!


----------



## tj2220

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yepyep_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tuesday, April 07, 2009
 Departed Facility in Hong Kong - Hong Kong - 01:00
 Processed at Hong Kong - Hong Kong - 00:40

 Monday, April 06, 2009
 Shipment picked up - 16:45_

 

Right behind you...

 Tuesday, April 07, 2009
 Processed at Hong Kong - Hong Kong - 01:22

 Monday, April 06, 2009
 Shipment picked up - 16:28


----------



## Zanth

What is the typical turn around for these? My number is still not showing up, but hoping for good things shortly.


----------



## ScottieB

I got mine in about 5 (business) days to midtown NYC.


----------



## Zanth

Excellent! With Easter this weekend, I doubt I will see it before next week but there may be a chance delivery on Saturday!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent! With Easter this weekend, I doubt I will see it before next week but there may be a chance delivery on Saturday!_

 

I have seen once it leaves Hong Kong, it picks up speed.. So Saturday would be a good bet !. actually maybe even before, if it does not hold up in customs..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have seen once it leaves Hong Kong, it picks up speed.. So Saturday would be a good bet !. actually maybe even before, if it does not hold up in customs.._

 

There's certainly a lot of variation in delivery speed. My Reference One made it from Hong Kong to my door in just two days. My Compass took quite a bit longer.

 In Peete's particular case, Canadian customs held his Compass for quite some time. Probably because they wanted to listen to it themselves. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So if it says "clearance delay", it's best to call them rightaway and ask what the hold-up is. (That goes for other countries too.)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Mine showed up in 3 days Zanth (RE1 and C-2C), including customs. Amazing by any standard with 4-5 days being the norm.


 Peete.

 PS Dro is correct...for some reason my Compass was held up in customs for 6 days which had me scratching my head as to why it was delayed. Could have been the Chinese New Year back log.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's certainly a lot of variation in delivery speed. My Reference One made it from Hong Kong to my door in just two days. My Compass took quite a bit longer.

 In Peete's particular case, Canadian customs held his Compass for quite some time. Probably because they wanted to listen to it themselves. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So if it says "clearance delay", it's best to call them rightaway and ask what the hold-up is. (That goes for other countries too.)_

 

There are always interesting stories when it comes to DHL, my DAC19SE has been gathering dust in London Heathrow Airport for the last 2 days, btw Compass 18 was chaos because it was Chinese New Year..kind of strange it seems ages , when it was only a few months back..


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine showed up in 3 days Zanth (RE1 and C-2C), including customs. Amazing by any standard with 4-5 days being the norm.


 Peete.

 PS Dro is correct...for some reason my Compass was held up in customs for 6 days which had me scratching my head as to why it was delayed. Could have been the Chinese New Year back log._

 

Wow, 6 days? I hope they got their fill with your Compass and don't feel the need to test mine as well. Does Kingwa mark the actual price or lower than actual price? Just wondering what customs charges will be like.


----------



## Hot Pixel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WallyPower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is working just fine, its says that my package was processed in Honkong at 0:53 the 7th of april
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: it's now airbourne and flying to the Netherlands
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Don't forget taking pictures of yourself paying the courier with the change-jar. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 On another note: when did you place your order? I've ordered mine on the 20th, and I haven't heard anything regarding shipping so I'm kind of nervous now. Especially since I'm a few days of next week, and I'd like to listen to my new AD900 & SR225.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't forget taking pictures of yourself paying the courier with the change-jar. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I too look forward to seeing pictures of this! I bet the look on his face will be priceless!


----------



## Zanth

I won't freak out about it, just getting excited to have decent tunes at work. Since receiving the ES3SX's, I now need a good DAC at work. The hiss from my iPod and Macbook Pro is awful.


----------



## dBs

I got mine in about 7 full days or about 5 business days.


----------



## theBigD

yeah, I think those of us on the west coast look at about 7 days. and things slow down after the package hits LA because it ends up in the hands of the wonderful US postal system.


----------



## WallyPower

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't forget taking pictures of yourself paying the courier with the change-jar. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 On another note: when did you place your order? I've ordered mine on the 20th, and I haven't heard anything regarding shipping so I'm kind of nervous now. Especially since I'm a few days of next week, and I'd like to listen to my new AD900 & SR225._

 

I'm Afraid that I wont be able to make the payment with the change jar
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I asked my mom where it was, and she said that it was gone, said she used it all in a "Sinterklaassuprise" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I ordered my Compass on the 11th of March.


----------



## Chu

Same boat as a lot of people, ordered it on the 20th, got e-mail confirmation from Cherry on the 21st they got my paypal payment.

 Wondering if everyone else in the boat ordered extras? I'm thinking maybe all the people who ordered just a Compass (as opposed to Compass + cables or Compass + Moon/Sun) were shipped first?


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same boat as a lot of people, ordered it on the 20th, got e-mail confirmation from Cherry on the 21st they got my paypal payment.

 Wondering if everyone else in the boat ordered extras? I'm thinking maybe all the people who ordered just a Compass (as opposed to Compass + cables or Compass + Moon/Sun) were shipped first?_

 

I hope thats not the case, since I got Compass, cables, moon and sun...


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking maybe all the people who ordered just a Compass (as opposed to Compass + cables or Compass + Moon/Sun) were shipped first?_

 

I ordered the Compass + moon/sun on 11th of march and it was shipped on monday.


----------



## techfreakazoid

The 'delay' appears to be attributed to the Qingming Festival public holiday: Qingming Festival - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

 Here's a list of China's 2009 public holidays that you can check out (2009 China Public Holidays announced) and plan your future orders.






 Also, the delays will be amplified by using EMS i.e., govt entity = public holidays, and EMS's outbound port is Shanghai and not HK.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yepyep_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered the Compass + moon/sun on 11th of march and it was shipped on monday._

 

My order was for Compass + cable and moon/sun on 14 March. It didn't ship.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So, I imagine the cutoff date was right around there.


----------



## idunno

My deadline passed at work, I can now spend some time “playing” during the week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My second comparison is AD743 vs. Earth, again with Compass in Neutral and using HD650. It should be noted that my AD743 are somewhat more of a DIY hackjob than most (ref. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/ad7...-8-mod-379561/). They fit the descriptions given in the D1 thread, but I can't guarantee that they sound exactly the same as the DIP-8 version.

*AD743 w/HD650:* Smooth, fluid, and natural. Overall detail is decent. Highs are crystalline, though not overly bright at all. Bass presence seems just right, neither lacking nor overpowering. Soundstage is spacious, involving, and enveloping; enthralling is an apt word. Initial impressions included concerns regarding bass impact, PRaT, and overall crispness; all of these concerns were dispelled with further evaluation.

*Earth w/HD650:* I really start to understand where this thing got its name; the sound is robust, and well, earthy. Bass is overpowering in comparison to the 743, though the impact is delightful. PRaT is aggressive and simply joyous. Soundstage is more forward, and somewhat compressed in comparison to the 743.

*Conclusion:* In my opinion, the AD743 delivers sound of a quality which can directly compete with an HDAM. I would be somewhat hesitant to say this about the AD797. Whether the 743's sound is to an individual's liking, is entirely another matter. The differences between the 743 and Earth in the Compass remind me very much of the 743 vs. 797 in the D1... the former being pleasantly neutral and wholesome, and the latter aggressive with addictive, punchy bass.


----------



## idunno

FYI...
 I just fried an LTC6241HV; this chip is not compatible with the Compass. Fortunately, my Compass is fine, and I have a spare 6241 to use in my D1 (it's my favorite for the DAC).


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The theory of burning-in in Soft 2 is that by engaging all the jumpers, you're burning all of the possible modes at the same time, correct? Does that mean that using Neutral will also burn Bright mode, since Bright involves no jumpers at all?_

 

I asked Kingwa this question, and his response is: 


> If you burn in at Soft2 mode, it can burn in all mode at same time.
> If you burn in at Neutral mode, it *can't* burn in the Soft1 and Soft2 .


After a clarification from Kingwa, his response makes sense to me. Neutral does indeed burn Bright mode too; it just doesn't burn the Soft modes.

 EDIT: whoa... mini-flood


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My order was for Compass + cable and moon/sun on 14 March. It didn't ship.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, I imagine the cutoff date was right around there._

 

Did you check with Cherry, because I think there should be another shipment on Thursday this week. Yours might be on that one.


----------



## oldschool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked Kingwa this question, and his response is: 



			If you burn in at Soft2 mode, it can burn in all mode at same time.
 If you burn in at Neutral mode, it *can't* burn in the Soft1 and Soft2 .
		
Click to expand...

After a clarification from Kingwa, his response makes sense to me. Neutral does indeed burn Bright mode too; it just doesn't burn the Soft modes.

 EDIT: whoa... mini-flood 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Makes sense, looking at the diagram on the lid


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you check with Cherry, because I think there should be another shipment on Thursday this week. Yours might be on that one._

 

Indeed, Cherry confirmed that I have two Compasses leaving thursday!

 So, here's my question to the burn-in gurus: Since I'll have two on my hands, I figure that this is a relatively unique opportunity to test burn-in. What do people recommend I do? Keep one unit at 0 hours, while I burn in the other, periodically comparing? Then, when the first one has settled down, burn in the second, again periodically comparing. That would seem to be the obvious method. Any thoughts?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed, Cherry confirmed that I have two Compasses leaving thursday!

 So, here's my question to the burn-in gurus: Since I'll have two on my hands, I figure that this is a relatively unique opportunity to test burn-in. What do people recommend I do? Keep one unit at 0 hours, while I burn in the other, periodically comparing? Then, when the first one has settled down, burn in the second, again periodically comparing. That would seem to be the obvious method. Any thoughts?_

 

I think in that scenario the most obvious comparison would be to leave one at 0 hours, burn one in to 400-500 and then listen to them both and see what the differences are. Not sure too many people get that opportunity.


----------



## Dankerz

Pete! I don't mean to be bothersome but is there still a part III in the works? My compass has shipped and would like something to tide me over 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for putting in so much time for the rest of us.


----------



## Sganzerla

A friend is getting a new Compass too, and mine has 600 hours on Moon + 500 Earth so we will compare both as soon as it arrives. HD600 + K701. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still waiting for the part III review, but I think there are good reasons for this delay.


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think in that scenario the most obvious comparison would be to leave one at 0 hours, burn one in to 400-500 and then listen to them both and see what the differences are. Not sure too many people get that opportunity._

 

This sounds like a good approach. Make sure to listen to them both a bit at first, to confirm that they sound the same to start with. If they don't, the later evaluations will be of limited value.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think in that scenario the most obvious comparison would be to leave one at 0 hours, burn one in to 400-500 and then listen to them both and see what the differences are. Not sure too many people get that opportunity._

 

Yeah, I was thinking about that. Maybe take one to 400 hours, compare, then take the other to 400 hours, compare again. Then, leave one at 400 and burn-in the other some more. That way I could get a perspective on the later burn-in.

 I should probably look over Peete's posts, because he had some observations about burn-in times.


----------



## Eric M

No Compasses shipped today


----------



## driftingbunnies

yeah...cuz it's not thursday


----------



## Skibumef

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f9/the...coming-418587/

 Now I can't wait to listen to the Beatles in glorious detail and sans headaches with my new Compass! I'll busy myself between receiving the Compass and the release of the remasters by listening to all of My Dr. Ebbetts/Purple Chick/Mirror Spock masters.

 I ordered my Compass on March 31st, so hopefully I will be getting good news this thursday...

 Oh, and the Beatles news combined with the first glowing reviews of the New Star Trek are making me geek out in delight: http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/07/...ams-star-trek/


----------



## Dat_Dude

My Compass is on it's way, but for some reason they have the wrong city name listed. My ZIP/Postal code is correct though so hopefully each hub looks at that first. Maybe I will have to call DHL.


----------



## haloxt

I had the same problem and Kingwa told me it was fine, but DHL delivered it to my neighbor who signed for it too. I stalked his house til he got home from work to pick up my compass.


----------



## dBs

22 days*24 hours-7 hours+150 hours=671 hours of burn in. The first 320 hours was on the Earth and the rest has been on the Moon. Today I just swapped out the Moon for the Sun. The following will be description of my impressions using the HD650s. I am a bass hound so keep that perspective in mind.

 The Moon mellowed out nicely in the manor I described and didnt really have any more significant changes since my last report on it. Ive only heard 10 or so songs so far from the Sun+Soft 2 combination but I would say that right now the Sun+Soft 2 is very similar to the Moon+Bright combination. There is a difference but you have to really listen to identify it. The Sun+Soft 2 has a slightly less bass, not by much, it lacks vs the Moon+Bright in the lowest end of the spectrum. Essentially the Sun has more bass than the Earth, but slightly less than the Moon. The Sun places its bass emphasis on the upper 1/2 of the low end while the Moon places its bass emphasis on the lower 2/3s of the low end.

 I dont get the same sense of soundstage as I get from the Moon. Its closer to the soundstage of the Earth HDAM.

 The Bright setting lifted the highs on the Moon HDAM very nicely to help offset its strong low end presence. In similar fashion, the Soft 2 setting is nicely offsetting the Sun HDAM I can tell. The highs on the Sun have more presence but it seems like its more in the lower spectrum of the highs while the Moon+Bright (meaning the Bright setting itself) had slightly more presence at the very top. I would illustrate it this way: the bright setting slightly emphasizes the top 1/2 of the high spectrum while the Sun HDAM emphasis (more than slightly) the lower 1/2 of the high spectrum. 

 I would say that both set ups are almost identical in the mid ranges which is recessed over the Earth HDAM. The Earth is better than both in the mid ranges.

 I personally define forward and smooth as being on opposite ends of the spectrum of one another. By this definition, I would say that the Sun+Soft 2 combination has significantly more forward than the Moon+Bright combination which is very smooth. The Sun is definitely more fatiguing because of its forward nature. It could be that this fatigue is merely because the Sun hasnt been burned in yet. I dont think I could listen to the Sun+Neutral or Sun+Bright settings for very long. It would be too fatiguing for me.

 At this point, the Moon+Bright is my favorite combination with Earth+Neutral in second. The Earth+Neutral setting has an amazing mid range that works really well with your standard fare rock music. The Moon+Bright works better with my genres of melodic trance (not goa or psy), symphonic metal (though Earth is also good here just not quite as good), and industrial rock (the grungy and hard sounds are favored by the extreme low and extreme high end emphasis of the Moon+Bright instead of the Earth+Neutral).

 Considering these impressions so far, Im not entirely sure I will have the patience to burn in the Sun. The differences are pretty small between the Sun+Soft 2 and Moon+Bright and the differences all have me giving the upper hand to the latter because of its soundstage, smooth nature, and places of emphasis. I simply prefer the stronger lowest 2/3 bass emphasis with slight upper 1/2 high emphasis of the Moon+Bright than the stronger upper 1/2 bass emphasis with stronger lower 1/2 high emphasis of the Sun+Soft 2.

 I think I might just revert back to Earth+Neutral again for a bit before likely staying with Moon+Bright for the long haul.

 This is how I will summarize at this point, with the first combination possessing the most of a specific trait and last possessing the least of a specific trait. The number represents the normalized values. That is to say that 1 is the value for that particular traits presence for the combination possessing the most of that particular trai. Any values smaller illustrate how significant the difference is from the combination that shows the most emphasis, a ratio.

 Lower 1/2 spectrum of bass:
 Moon+Bright [1]
 Sun+Soft 2 [.7]
 Earth+Neutral [.3]

 Upper 1/2 spectrum of bass:
 Sun+Soft 2 [1]
 Moon+Bright [.8]
 Earth+Neutral [.4]

 Mids (halves combined due to lack of significant difference from the normalized maximum value):
 Earth+Neutral [1]
 Sun+Soft 2 [.5]
 Moon+Bright [.5]

 Lower 1/2 spectrum of highs:
 Sun+Soft 2 [1]
 Moon+Bright [.9]
 Earth+Neutral [.7]

 Upper 1/2 spectrum of highs:
 Moon+Bright [1]
 Sun+Soft 2 [.9]
 Earth+Neutral [.6]

 forward vs Smooth (1-10 with 1 being absolute forward and 10 being absolute smooth):
 Sun+Soft 2 [2]
 Earth+Neutral [4.5]
 Moon+Bright [9]

 Fatigue:
 Sun+Soft 2 [1]
 Moon+Bright [.5]
 Earth+Neutral [.3]

 Thats all I can think of right now. If there are any specific questions, Ill do my best to field them.


----------



## idunno

I'm going to continue testing IC's vs. Earth in the Compass (nothing new tonight), but the comparison I'm most interested in now is AD743 vs. Moon. For that purpose, I've started burining in my Moon; tune-in 2-3 weeks from now for the knock-down drag-out.


----------



## idunno

dBs: how do you define PRaT?


----------



## dBs

Yea, think I had the wrong idea, fixed.


----------



## idunno

nevermind... you've fixed it now


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Good job dBs...that was very informative and helpful. One setting you could try which might seem odd but may surprise you is Earth/Bright setting.

 Might be another great combination to ruminate over 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## dBs

Thanks, I will have to try that. I think I will try to give the Sun+Soft 2 some time, at least a few days to get some kind of burn in and impression of where the Sun would evolve. This isnt my full review yet, theres more Id like to cover and talk about but I dont think Ill have time for a while yet.


----------



## WallyPower

Good news chaps, it seems like I'm getting the Compass today, since the driver is already on his way


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WallyPower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good news chaps, it seems like I'm getting the Compass today, since the driver is already on his way
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I hope you have enough change ready, or a credit card. If the latter, you might have to be a little persistent. When delivering my Reference One the driver actually pretended not to have his credit card payment slips with him at first. Grrrrr, no DHL-experience is perfect.


----------



## WallyPower

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope you have enough change ready, or a credit card. If the latter, you might have to be a little persistent. When delivering my Reference One the driver actually pretended not to have his credit card payment slips with him at first. Grrrrr, no DHL-experience is perfect._

 

I'll think i'll take him to the supermarket around the block, so I can pin the exact amount there....


----------



## tj2220

Mine seems to have travelled through Germany. Good news is that it's already in Finland. Clearance delay sounds ominous though... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [size=xx-small]
*Wednesday, April 08, 2009*
 Clearance delay
 09:53 - Helsinki - Finland

 Processed for clearance at Helsinki - Finland 
 08:51 - Helsinki - Finland

 Arrived at Sort Facility Helsinki - Finland
 08:27 - Helsinki - Finland

 Departed Facility in Leipzig - Germany
 04:39 - Leipzig - Germany

*Tuesday, April 07, 2009*
 Processed at Leipzig - Germany
 22:04 - Leipzig - Germany

 Arrived at Sort Facility Leipzig - Germany
 17:04 - Leipzig - Germany

 Departed Facility in Hong Kong - Hub - Hong Kong
 04:00 - Hong Kong - Hub - Hong Kong

 Processed at Hong Kong - Hub - Hong Kong
 03:55 - Hong Kong - Hub - Hong Kong

 Arrived at Sort Facility Hong Kong - Hub - Hong Kong
 02:15 - Hong Kong - Hub - Hong Kong

 Departed Facility in Hong Kong - Hong Kong
 01:51 - Hong Kong - Hong Kong

 Processed at Hong Kong - Hong Kong
 01:22 - Hong Kong - Hong Kong

*Monday, April 06, 2009*
 Shipment picked up
 16:28 - Hong Kong - Hong Kong[/size]


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tj2220* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wednesday, April 08, 2009
 Clearance delay
 09:53 - Helsinki - Finland_

 

Yep, exactly the same time for me aswell. They'll either call us (most likely) / send post or email.

 If it's still at "Clearance delay" state on friday, I'll call call them as I've read that sometimes it's a lot faster than just waiting for them to contact you.

 I think the price we'll have to pay is around 13 euros until they ship the package.


----------



## tj2220

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yepyep_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, exactly the same time for me aswell. They'll either call us (most likely) / send post or email.

 If it's still at "Clearance delay" state on friday, I'll call call them as I've read that sometimes it's a lot faster than just waiting for them to contact you.

 I think the price we'll have to pay is around 13 euros until they ship the package._

 

I don't think they'll be working friday or monday, damn easter... 13 e doesn't sound too bad.


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tj2220* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_damn easter..._

 

Aaargh, I totally forgot about that cr*p. I was given a small hint just a few minutes ago though. Doorbell rang, it was "the j people".


----------



## Eqvil

Ouch, seems like I'll get my Compass a week later then I first thought. 
 I thought the email was the actual order and not the day of the payment. Or maybe I wasn't being clear enough in my email that I wanted to order now.

 Quote from an email from Cherry on 26th of March
  Quote:


 I will give you a detail quotation below.You just pay before shipping (pay now or 2-3 days before shipping)[.Then you will become one of compass order. 
 

So I waited a few extra days for the dollar to go down and made the payment on April 4th (April 6th first businessday.) And thought I would make the batch shipped on Thursday, 9th April. But Cherry told me It would ship out in the middle of the month today...Guess my HD650 will spend another week in it's box. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Either way I might be able to do a small comparison to the Asus Essence STX sometime in the future. Or maybe not, cause it's so hard to describe sound properly.


----------



## WallyPower

Sound the horns, my compass has arrived!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 pictures and first immpression will follow soon..


----------



## darkkai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eqvil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch, seems like I'll get my Compass a week later then I first thought. 
 I thought the email was the actual order and not the day of the payment. Or maybe I wasn't being clear enough in my email that I wanted to order now.

 Quote from an email from Cherry on 26th of March

 So I waited a few extra days for the dollar to go down and made the payment on April 4th (April 6th first businessday.) And thought I would make the batch shipped on Thursday, 9th April. But Cherry told me It would ship out in the middle of the month today...Guess my HD650 will spend another week in it's box. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Either way I might be able to do a small comparison to the Asus Essence STX sometime in the future. Or maybe not, cause it's so hard to describe sound properly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Same here! Purchased about the same time and Cherry mentioned that it would be sent out by the 10th, but received word that it would be at least another week (earliest). Bah!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WallyPower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sound the horns, my compass has arrived!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 pictures and first immpression will follow soon.._

 

Congratulations! You must be the first in this batch.

 To all others, it did occur to me that Audio-gd shipped both 120V and 220V versions in one batch this time (usually they go in separate shipments). I don't think one will have accidentally shipped to the wrong destination, but we're all human, so it might be good to check the voltage label above the IEC socket before plugging it in. Wouldn't want the Compass to go BOOM. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Actually, it won't, there's a rather sturdy fuse-system in there, but still...)


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WallyPower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sound the horns, my compass has arrived!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 pictures and first immpression will follow soon.._

 

Congratulations, i await your first impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm gonna order the compass very soon, i just need a little piece of paper to finally been shipped to my bank.

 Do anyone have a idea of how it will sound versus a 340a Cambridge audio ?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eqvil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Either way I might be able to do a small comparison to the Asus Essence STX sometime in the future. Or maybe not, cause it's so hard to describe sound properly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Do give it a shot. Pick some songs you're very familiar with and write your main impressions I reckon. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Omega17TheTrue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do anyone have a idea of how it will sound versus a 340a Cambridge audio ?_

 

I've put all the impressions and comparisons I've seen people write in the FAQ as I come across them. (The link in my signature for it is broken at the moment as somehow the SEO software got disabled on the Head-fi blog system.) There isn't one with the 340a at the moment.


----------



## WallyPower

I’ve got my compass in this afternoon and here am I, posting the pictures and first impressions.
 When I first handled the package, it felt pretty heavy, so that was a good start. Next thing I noticed was that my package was pretty much undamaged, it was a little bit dirty, but undamaged.
 Here we have it on the kitchentable:






 The declared value was 54 USD, it still cost me 38 Euros in tax. Thank you government……..






 So I started unpacking. Pretty hard task, since literally everything had been taped up. So after some struggling I got it open and it looked like this: 






 Good clearance between the Compass and the box, no dents in the cardboard on the inside.

 And then I had to flip the compass upside-down, where the cables where taped up against its belly:






 After getting rid of the bubble wrap I noticed something strange, in the middle of the lid, the paint was much deeper black than on de sides, was this also in the prototype versions?






 And then we have here the final pictures, I really dig the gold plated connections on the back, truly a piece of art.












 And then it was time to pump some sound trough it, I hooked it up to my computer. But when I tried the optical link, I couldn’t get any sound trough it, same applies for Coax… I will have to give that an another look. So I opted for USB, the driver where installed automatically by Vista. So I started up ITunes and started to listen.

 All my listening has been pretty random so far, so there is no system is it..

 I used Sennheiser HD 595's

*AC/DC, Hells Bells – Earth in Bright mode. *
 Didn’t sound too shabby, the base was very pushed back, but is was vey controlled, I really think it needs at least 100 hours of burn-in before it starts to open up. A very promising start for what is to come.

*Red Hot Chili Peppers, Dani California - Earth in Bright mode. *
 Sounded again very promising, but I still have that feeling that it could do so much better. The bas is still in the back ground, but the guitar solo at the end does sounds very alive. Yet again I feel that it needs more burn-in.

*Red Hot Chili Peppers, Dani California - Earth in Normal mode. *
 Much better than bright mode, the bass is more there, this is something I like!

*Motörhead ,When The Eagle Screams – Moon in Bright mode. *
 The music suddenly feels more separated, you can distinguish the base of this song a lot better than with onboard audio. Also Lemmy’s voice sound much more raw and vibrating. Much more Motörheadish

 This are my first impressions hope you enjoyed them, I shall post in the future some more about my findings.


----------



## jzkpr

I'm in Boston, MA and it looks like my Compass which was shipped on Monday is already on a DHL truck out for delivery to me. Pretty fast. For the record, I ordered mine March 10th.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Holy crap that was fast. Mine should be sitting on my doorstep by 5:00 PM Central Time!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WallyPower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And then it was time to pump some sound trough it, I hooked it up to my computer. But when I tried the optical link, I couldn’t get any sound trough it, same applies for Coax… I will have to give that an another look. So I opted for USB, the driver where installed automatically by Vista. So I started up ITunes and started to listen._

 

Very nice pictures (nice camera too). 

 I have to admit, although I wasn't a huge fan of all the cosmetic redesign, the endresult does look really handsome.

 I guess the reason why coax or optical doesn't work would have something to do with the Vista settings. Not a clue how this works in Vista (using XP myself), so maybe another Vista user can help out here.

 I haven't seen that discolouration of the lid before, but I think it has to do with the way it was packaged, as it seems to run along the areas that were covered by the foam in the box. I might disappear of its own accord, otherwise a little bit of soap and water (very little water 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) should do the trick.


----------



## haloxt

Wallypower, make sure you aren't outputting 192khz only 92khz and lower for optical/coax. I think customs did a free paintjob on your compass.

 Dat_Dude, did you request DHL leave it at your doorstep? Normally they will need you to sign for it.


----------



## yepyep_

Thanks for the pics/first impressions.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dat_Dude, did you request DHL leave it at your doorstep? Normally they will need you to sign for it._

 

Oh noooo! I didn't request that. Do you think if I called DHL that they could relay that information to the courier before delivery today?


----------



## Currawong

WallyPower: Thanks for the pics. It's the first time for everyone AFAIK to see the final version. It will have 100 hours of burn-in from Audio-gd and needs at least another 250, during which the tonality will fluctuate somewhat before settling down.


----------



## csroc

Wally, thanks for the pics again, nice to see the first pictures from an owner of the final version.

 I'd suggest taking the lid off and seeing if you can wash that streaking off with a damn cloth or something. I really wouldn't expect Audio-gd to send something out with an obvious finish defect like that.

 Take a pic of the underside of the lid as well, I'm curious to see it


----------



## wdoerr

9:50 A.M Wendesday: With delivery courier.
 7:04 A.M. on Monday: I got the shipping number.

 Not bad.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Mine was fast, but they had the address all wrong. 
 1. Sent to wrong City
 2. Had the house number wrong
 3. Milsspelled the street name

 Thankfully I got all that ironed out and the delivery guy is meeting me at my house when I get off work!


----------



## jzkpr

It is noon in Boston and my Compass has been safely delivered to me.
 Shipped on Mon and here by noon on Wed. That's fast.
 Looks like customs did open it as I see "Security Checked" tape around the package.
 I did not have to pay any customs/import fee on the unit.
 I'll open in shortly.


----------



## Aleatoris

Strange, I live in Vancouver Canada, but my compass got routed through Wilmington, OH. It's now within city limits, but I see a nice "Clearance delay". Damn you customs, Damn you!! I hope the new owners of a compass are enjoying the music!


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've put all the impressions and comparisons I've seen people write in the FAQ as I come across them. (The link in my signature for it is broken at the moment as somehow the SEO software got disabled on the Head-fi blog system.) There isn't one with the 340a at the moment._

 

Yes i know, i check your blog quite often, but be assure to a have a mini review from myself when i receive mine.


----------



## jzkpr

I guess I could not wait to open it.
 Looks great.
 New back panel is super clean.
 The input selector knob is still on a 4 click pot (no big deal).
 Delivered with the proper power cord for USA use.
 I also had a streak on the top lid but it wiped off with a cloth and a dab of water.

 Some photos from my end:


----------



## Dankerz

It's here!!!!!! This is better than Christmas


----------



## jzkpr

A question for the the pro's on the Compass.
 My chain is as follows Apple Lossless>iTunes>iMac>USB>Compass

 Now, the file I am listening to at the moment is 96kHz/24bit.

 I was told that the Compass only supported up to 44/16 but this looks to not be the case?

 BTW: it's a rip from a dubstep record I have and the sub bass is intense in Neutral mode on a pair of HD595's.


----------



## Dankerz

I have a question about the jumpers. When you take off the lid the jumpers are shown going from left to right while on the board they run up and down. If I have the compass in front of me like the diagram under the lid shows, is the correct neutral setting to have the jumpers on the left pins? I'll take a pic if this doesn't make sense.


 Other than that I am very pleased with the finished product. My Compass did have the streak on the top of the case also. My only nit pick is that the usb connector on the back wiggles while all of the other connectors are sturdy.


----------



## jzkpr

Turn the unit and face it as shown on the gd-audio web page and install them.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dankerz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question about the jumpers. When you take off the lid the jumpers are shown going from left to right while on the board they run up and down. If I have the compass in front of me like the diagram under the lid shows, is the correct neutral setting to have the jumpers on the left pins? I'll take a pic if this doesn't make sense.


 Other than that I am very pleased with the finished product. My Compass did have the streak on the top of the case also. My only nit pick is that the usb connector on the back wiggles while all of the other connectors are sturdy._

 

I believe (and hope!) that the diagram under the lid is correct. If you line the front of the lid up with the front of the Compass and place it down beside it the diagram should show where on the amp board the jumpers are and my understanding is that the jumpers are oriented such that their longer dimension is in line with the longer dimension of the Compass, which is why the diagram shows that.


----------



## jzkpr

For those wanting some perspective on size, here is my 13inch Macbook on top of the Compass.


----------



## Dankerz

Under the lid the jumpers are horizontal. On the board they are vertical.

 The pic that was just posted is also a little misleading. The chart shows jumpers 1 and 2 being next to each other but on the board they are on top and bottom of each other.


 I now notice that the jumpers are numbered on the circuit board itself. Therefore, if you are looking at the compass as the diagram under the lid shows, jumper 1 is on the right and jumper 2 is on the left.


----------



## Eric M

Is the Gain setting based on your headphone's efficiency/type or personal preference?


----------



## csroc

Interesting...

 this image 







 Shows that the jumpers are stacked top to bottom if you look at it from that side of the amp board, which is how they are shown in the diagram as well. If that changed in the new amp board (which it doesn't appear to have) then they should match.






 Here's the diagram from the lid rotated to match the orientation of the picture of the amp board above from Kingwa's site. The jumpers are stacked one above the other, so Jump1 is the top pair and Jump2 is the bottom pair.


----------



## Dankerz

This is what I am talking about. I have the compass oriented like the diagram shows. The diagram shows the jumpers being vertical.

 On the jumper settings pic to the right the jumpers are horizontal. 

 I now understand that you have to turn the compass sideways with the headphone amp section closest to you to make it look like the jumper settings pic. This wasn't mentioned under the lid and I just found it a little confusing. Now that I know the actual board is labeled it makes it easier.


----------



## csroc

Oh yes, the jumper diagram on the right you're talking about isn't a diagram of their alignment. To be honest I really didn't put any thought in to that part, I took what someone else designed as a suggestion and worked it in to the instructions. It's basically just a guide for what the settings are, but now that I understand what you are referring to, you are correct that they are rotated 90 degrees.


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't seen that discolouration of the lid before, but I think it has to do with the way it was packaged, as it seems to run along the areas that were covered by the foam in the box. I might disappear of its own accord, otherwise a little bit of soap and water (very little water 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) should do the trick._

 

Mine looked the same, but it was just to polish with a soft cloth. So no worries!


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eric M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the Gain setting based on your headphone's efficiency/type or personal preference?_

 

I doubt that anyone will use the high gain setting regardless of headphone sensitivity. Even in low gain and with low sensitivity headphones I have the volume control at around 8 to 8:30 for normal listening volume.

 So using high gain just gets impractical cause you will have trouble regulating the volume with any precision.


----------



## Zanth

Woot! Mine was here when I arrived home from work today! Happy listening for me tonight!


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I doubt that anyone will use the high gain setting regardless of headphone sensitivity._

 

You sure about that? Even with the more difficult phones to amp like the HD650 or the DT880?


----------



## Hottuna_

A question for those who ordered extra OPA modules with the compass.
 Do they come with the grounding wire for the compass by default or did you have to explicitly say that the extra OPAs were for use in the compass in your orders?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hottuna_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A question for those who ordered extra OPA modules with the compass.
 Do they come with the grounding wire for the compass by default or did you have to explicitly say that the extra OPAs were for use in the compass in your orders?_

 

AFAIK they come setup with the ring terminal added to the ground wire. If you have other modules without it it's fairly easy to add the terminal, as long as you have the parts and crimp tool on hand. My all in one stripper tool has all kinds of useful features and such a tool should be a part of anyone's tool box for a home or whatever it is you live in(barring a card board box of course in which case luxuries such as music are the last thing on your mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 All HDAMs come with the ground wire, the only difference between those ordered for use with the Compass is the aforementioned ring terminal installed.

 Makes things easier for those using a Compass that's for sure. 

 Peete.


----------



## wdoerr

This is very well packaged. Styroform outer layer with bubblewrap around the compass. The cutouts in the styroform for the Sun and the Moon, packaged in separate cardboard boxes, is nice. I like the sticker on the top with your name, country, voltage and date, my handwritten date is 2009.03.17-12 (?). The power cable looks cool, the sleeve may be a little big?

 However, I don't know about the pink optical cable?

 Also, this package was never opened. The stated value on the shipping ticket is 60.90 USD (must be the Chinese, used, resale value).


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aleatoris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Strange, I live in Vancouver Canada, but my compass got routed through Wilmington, OH. It's now within city limits, but I see a nice "Clearance delay". Damn you customs, Damn you!! I hope the new owners of a compass are enjoying the music!_

 

Call DHL. It will sit there indefinitely unless you bug them to clear it faster. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jzkpr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A question for the the pro's on the Compass.
 My chain is as follows Apple Lossless>iTunes>iMac>USB>Compass

 Now, the file I am listening to at the moment is 96kHz/24bit.

 I was told that the Compass only supported up to 44/16 but this looks to not be the case?_

 

It will be down-sampled by iTunes to 16/44.1 when it's played.


----------



## haloxt

PINK optical cable? When I saw the pictures WallyPower and jzkpr posted I thought they had a stash of pink eye covers and threw them in for fun.


----------



## Zanth

Okay, so kids are in bed and I've just opened up the chassis, first thing I noticed? It smells NEW. I mean, NEW NEW. Like it was made, burned in and sent to me. Pretty sweet. I've only ever had that experience from some Wyetech Labs gear I was testing out at one point. 

 I have the Moon and the stock Earth. I warmed up the unit using the Earth but I had the Moon in mind from the outset so in it went along with putting in a set of jumpers on Jumper 2 for a slightly less than neutral sound. This unit is going to work with me and I need to have a nice warm sound by which I can listen to for 8+ hours without even the hint of fatigue. FLAC + Compass + RS-1's. There is a noticeable hum in the left channel when I plug in my Westone ES3X's. I'll move the unit around to other power outlets but if the sound persists, I'll have to go with full-sized headphones. The ES3X's are apparently the most efficient headphone going so I understand the idea of not getting DEAD quiet sounds with it, but I had hoped for this.

 I'm letting the unit warm up and then I'll start some listening. Should be a lot of fun!


----------



## chum_2000_uk

After seeing some of the pictures posted by recent owners of new Compasses, I have decided to finally order one up tonight! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been trying to decide when to purchase one, but after seeing how great it now looks I realise I cant resist any longer.... I need one :-D


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, so kids are in bed and I've just opened up the chassis, first thing I noticed? It smells NEW. I mean, NEW NEW. Like it was made, burned in and sent to me. Pretty sweet. I've only ever had that experience from some Wyetech Labs gear I was testing out at one point. 

 I have the Moon and the stock Earth. I warmed up the unit using the Earth but I had the Moon in mind from the outset so in it went along with putting in a set of jumpers on Jumper 2 for a slightly less than neutral sound. This unit is going to work with me and I need to have a nice warm sound by which I can listen to for 8+ hours without even the hint of fatigue. FLAC + Compass + RS-1's. There is a noticeable hum in the left channel when I plug in my Westone ES3X's. I'll move the unit around to other power outlets but if the sound persists, I'll have to go with full-sized headphones. The ES3X's are apparently the most efficient headphone going so I understand the idea of not getting DEAD quiet sounds with it, but I had hoped for this.

 I'm letting the unit warm up and then I'll start some listening. Should be a lot of fun!_

 

Yes, open the hood and you get that new car smell.


----------



## Dat_Dude

These jumper diagrams still confuse the **** out of me. 

 Can someone walk this idiot through this part? I know what jumpers are from doing Master/Slave jumpers on hard drives, I am just having a difficult time understanding the diagrams. If I have the front of the unit facing me, do I rotate it clockwise or counter clockwise? Then what?


----------



## haloxt

If the front is facing you, it is like this

 jumper 1 ---> : : <--- Jumper 2



 Jumper 1 ---> : : <--- Jumper 2

 AND BE SURE IT IS TURNED OFF LIKE THE INSTRUCTIONS SAY


----------



## Dat_Dude

Nice! Thanks h4x! The things you can do with punctuation.


----------



## ecclesand

OK...it's 9am on Thursday in China and no updates to the shipping page yet.


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the front is facing you, it is like this

 jumper 1 ---> : : <--- Jumper 2



 Jumper 1 ---> : : <--- Jumper 2

 AND BE SURE IT IS TURNED OFF LIKE THE INSTRUCTIONS SAY 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You sure? Even though the board lists it like this:
 .. ..
 .. ..
 Jumper 1 Jumper 1
 Jumper 2 Jumper 2


----------



## Dat_Dude

Now I am really confused.


----------



## Zanth

sorry, orientation was off in my head when I was posting. haloxt is completely right.


----------



## haloxt

Okay, forget about the compass facing you. It's best to just look at the jumpers with the right side of the compass facing you, like this.






 I go crosseyed when I see all those electronics, but just look at the white text underneath the jumpers.

 Jumper 1 . . big space here . . Jumper 1
 Jumper 2 . . big space here . . Jumper 2


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now I am really confused._

 

The jumpers will only go in parallel to the long axis of the enclosure.

 They will not go in rotated 90 degress (parallel to the short dimension).

 There is a little diagram on the circuit board, you may need a magnifying glass to see it. It shown jump 1/Jump2. Align the pins as shown on the circuit board.

 Edit: The above, very clear photo, shows the circuit board pin orientation. The confusion may be that there are no jumpers in that photo. So it looks kinda weird.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, forget about the compass facing you. It's best to just look at the jumpers with the right side of the compass facing you, like this.






 I go crosseyed when I see all those electronics, but just look at the white text underneath the jumpers.

 Jumper 1 . . big space here . . Jumper 1
 Jumper 2 . . big space here . . Jumper 2_

 

This is the right answer


----------



## Dat_Dude

I got it now. I actually didn't look close enough at first to see the white text on the board. We are good to go. Earth+Neutral to start it off!

 Thanks for the help!


----------



## les_garten

Jumper 1s are in red

 Jumper 2s are in Green

 There are two jumper 1s, one for each channel

 There are two Jumper 2s, one for each Channel






 .


----------



## Zanth

So I'm listning right now to Yo Yo Ma playing some Baroque concertos via my Macbook Pro --> Flac --> Play --> Compass --> RS-1's. The sound is excellent, punchy, non-fatiguing. Very very fluid without a hint of stridency but at the same time the sound is not mushy either. An organic experience. 

 My main reason for wanting a dac/amp combo is because of my work situation. My Macbook Pro there is simply not up to the task of driving RS-1's or ES3X's with any hint of musicality let alone accuracy. It is pitchy, scratchy, hissing and nasty. Now though, I'll be enjoying music from start to finish each day without having to use my iPod Nano. My FLAC library remains in tact and I can listen to lossless without having to convert everything to ALAC and thereby having everything in triplicate (I already converted the files to V0 lame encoded mp3s).

 I will get acclimated with the sound the more I listen tonight and particularly tomorrow. But again, the first striking feature of the Compass is the build quality. The packaging was top notch. Others have shown pictures already. The soldering work is excellent, the fit and finish is excellent and the inclusion of all the cables, the jumpers, the alan key etc were all added touches that really complete the entire package. I look at it, shake my head in disbelief at how much is packed in there for the cost. Add that to the wonderful customer service I've and the VERY fast shipping and I'm definitely a fan of Audio-gd. With the Reference 1 lined up for delivery sometime in late April or early May I'll be in for many hours of listening which is just absolutely exciting. Nothing like adding new gear to get the juices flowing. 

 For those who are pretty wet behind the ears when it comes to electronics (like I am) the ease of swapping in the opamp modules was a dream. I unscrewed the ground, unplugged the Earth, popped in the Moon, screwed down the ground and was finished in under a minute. A total breeze. Adding the jumpers was easy too (once one gets adjusted to the orientation).

 All these little changes available to the listener on a rather inexpensive combo unit makes for quite the value as I see it. 

 I'll post a formal review in a week or so but for now, I'm dimming the lights and enjoying awesome music in my living room. Something that hasn't happened since I've moved here. Why? Because my big rig is in the basement.


----------



## stellablues

Just plugged mine in a few minutes ago.... yippee....


----------



## Zanth

I had the PS-1's running for a bit, now I've swapped in the ES3X's again. I stayed at the same outlet but this time I used the Audio-gd power cable. The hum in the left channel diminished leaving me to think that indeed, this outlet (close to the fridge) is picking up some hash. Once I add a bit of volume to the music I can't detect the hum except in very quiet passages. tomorrow when I hit my fully regulated 20 amp lab I'll be flying with grand power.


----------



## jzkpr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It will be down-sampled by iTunes to 16/44.1 when it's played._

 

Actually, I think iTunes plays it thru as 96/24.

 It looks like the Compass or Core Audio is down-sampling to to 48/16 (if I am reading this properly)


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had the PS-1's running for a bit, now I've swapped in the ES3X's again. I stayed at the same outlet but this time I used the Audio-gd power cable. The hum in the left channel diminished leaving me to think that indeed, this outlet (close to the fridge) is picking up some hash. Once I add a bit of volume to the music I can't detect the hum except in very quiet passages. tomorrow when I hit my fully regulated 20 amp lab I'll be flying with grand power._

 

You know, as far as I know this is actually uncharted territory, I don't think anyone has tried out the Compass with IEMs before. It's good to hear that, with the lowered gain of these versions, you are apparently able to get a low enough volume from it for IEM listening. I hope the hum will disappear with more burn-in. Otherwise, perhaps some simple net-filtering will have to do the trick.


----------



## Dat_Dude

How are you guys burning yours in besides listening to music? I am going to use the Pink Noise wav I believe. 

 I also received a new pair of HD650s with the Silver Dragon cable upgrade. Do you recommend I use those for burning in? Or something that has already been burnt in? Or do you even have headphones hooked up at all during burn-in of the Compass?


----------



## sandchak

Good to see folks receiving their Compasses, well there was a power breakdown out here since yesterday and I could only read the thread this morning.. nice pictures, the final version looks very neat ! Kudos to Csroc !..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Off topic : I got my DAC19SE yesterday, pity I haven't heard it as yet because of the power breakdown..

 Congratulations ALL !!..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How are you guys burning yours in besides listening to music? I am going to use the Pink Noise wav I believe._

 

I used various kinds of music, some of it with a lot of bass (to give the capacitors a workout), and wav file of simultaneous pink noise and fast and slow frequency sweeps. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also received a new pair of HD650s with the Silver Dragon cable upgrade. Do you recommend I use those for burning in? Or something that has already been burnt in? Or do you even have headphones hooked up at all during burn-in of the Compass?_

 

If your HD650 still need burn-in, why not burn them in together with the Compass? Makes sense to me. But you really need to hook a headphone up to the amp, otherwise it's not doing any work and therefore not burning in.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Off topic : I got my DAC19SE yesterday, pity I haven't heard it as yet because of the power breakdown.._

 

Congratulations! Now you can start the DAC-19SE thread!


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 If your HD650 still need burn-in, why not burn them in together with the Compass? Makes sense to me. But you really need to hook a headphone up to the amp, otherwise it's not doing any work and therefore not burning in._

 

Precisely what I am doing right now. I just wanted to verify.


----------



## sarathcpt

Couple of days before I got an email from Cherry saying :

 Because you have brought the audio-gd power cable,is it possible for us not to ship the common power cable to you? When we add the value is USD1 common cable to you,the weight of the package is over ,we have to pay more shipping cost.
 How do you think?

 I ordered the whole package with all the HDAM modules. Did anyone get an similar query ? Just curious...

 Anyway, I replied saying its fine. I got that email on monday, which made me think mine will be shipped on Tuesday..but seems like there was no batch shipped on Tuesday...so hopefully tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congratulations! Now you can start the DAC-19SE thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Dro, I rather stay away from starting a new thread..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in any case the DAC19SE has been discontinued.. Well I guess for me its like I got the first batch of Compass and the last batch of DAC19SE..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice..


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You sure about that? Even with the more difficult phones to amp like the HD650 or the DT880?_

 

Yes, I'm using low gain with Sennheiser HD650 and AKG K701.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You sure about that? Even with the more difficult phones to amp like the HD650 or the DT880?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I'm using low gain with Sennheiser HD650 and AKG K701._

 

Seconded. I've been using the Compass with headphones ranging from 32 ohm to 600 ohm and never get beyond 8:30. I doubt, even with 600 ohm headphones, you could set the volume knob to anything beyond 12 o'clock in low gain without causing permanent damage to your ears.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Couple of days before I got an email from Cherry saying :

 Because you have brought the audio-gd power cable,is it possible for us not to ship the common power cable to you? When we add the value is USD1 common cable to you,the weight of the package is over ,we have to pay more shipping cost.
 How do you think?

 I ordered the whole package with all the HDAM modules. Did anyone get an similar query ? Just curious...

 Anyway, I replied saying its fine. I got that email on monday, which made me think mine will be shipped on Tuesday..but seems like there was no batch shipped on Tuesday...so hopefully tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!_

 

I got both HDAM and power cord upgrade as well, and got EXACTLY the same message. I too replied saying it was ok. It would have been nice to compare upgraded cable to normal, but whatever! My question is, it looks like the regular power cable is the same as any computer would use, so if I wanted to try it with the equivalent to a stock cable, could I just pick up a normal computer cable and use that?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ so if I wanted to try it with the equivalent to a stock cable, could I just pick up a normal computer cable and use that?_

 

Yes, That is Correct..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My question is, it looks like the regular power cable is the same as any computer would use, so if I wanted to try it with the equivalent to a stock cable, could I just pick up a normal computer cable and use that?_

 

Absolutely, there's nothing special about the stock power cable that Audio-gd includes with the Compass. The cable of your computer might even have been made in exactly the same Chinese factory.

 EDIT: And, of course, the other nightwatchman beat me to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got the stock power cable here: the brand name seems to be "CCC" and it's a 3*0.75mm^2 cable. I could even send it to you, since it has an American plug, so it's not of any use to me. (But that would probably be a ridiculous waste of money in shipping costs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## Mingo

I have just bought a headphone setup: AKG K701 (which I like very much!), Marantz SA7001 cd-player and Heed CanAmp.
 Now I think about expanding the setup already. I think I want a Compass, so I have few questions, to which I am sure you experts have answers:
 1. Has anybody compared the CanAmp to the Compass using K701? 

 2. Which is the best way to connect the Compass to my Marantz - can I do it digitally when using the Compass only as a headphone amplifier?

 3. Can I use the Compass DAC witk my Marantz and improve the sound and at the same time use the headphone amplifier? If yes, how do I connect?

 4. Is it correct, that used only as a headphone amplifier there is no need to buy the Moon and Sun OPAs as they are not in use in this capacity(and the Earth as well)? 

 5. Quite another matter: I hate talking about things and not know how to pronounce words correctly. Here in Denmark everybody says Grado with an a as in father. Is this correct or should it be a as in great or maybe even something else?

 It will be a great help to have answers to these questions. I want to learn more about this fascinating new hobby of mine.


----------



## ExtraNice

Question... will this ASIO stuff affect anything (in a negative way) when I only use my onboard soundcard?

 Is there any specific settings that I should be looking at setting in my media player. Planning on using Foobar or Media Monkey. I like Media Monkey, but have also heard great things about Foobar. I really miss iTunes simple and stylish layout though!!!

 Also, I think (hopefully!) he will be shipping later today. That's what I seem to have found looking at the other shipping times. Thursday seems like the right day to ship for him.


----------



## Skibumef

Checked the shipping page, and there's my name! Wooo-hoooo! Ohhh yah, ohhh yah (swinging fists in the air, dissolving into embarrassing dance). I would actually yell out but it's 3:18 AM and I would definitely wake my roomate. You know what, screw him.
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1
 I see two Evans listed there. I ordered a Compass. I hope I'm not getting a C2C as well! Actually, I don't remember paying twice, so if they want to send it to me...
 Upon further inspection, it looks like there are quite a few Evans in this shipment. Weird... not exactly a common name. Hey other Evans! So that C2C is probably not coming to me. Especially since they usually list both items together if you order more than one.


----------



## Skibumef

EDIT: Erased. twas a double-post


----------



## Skibumef

EDIT: Erased, no longer relevant


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Checked the shipping page, and there's my name! Wooo-hoooo! Ohhh yah, ohhh yah (swinging fists in the air, dissolving into embarrassing dance). I would actually yell out but it's 3:18 AM and I would definitely wake my roomate. You know what, screw him.
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1
 I see two Evans listed there. I ordered a Compass. I hope I'm not getting a C2C as well! Actually, I don't remember paying twice, so if they want to send it to me...
 Upon further inspection, it looks like there are quite a few Evans in this shipment. Weird... not exactly a common name. Hey other Evans! So that C2C is probably not coming to me. Especially since they usually list both items together if you order more than one._

 

OK deleted !..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ouch, think I added one more !!.. just press the edit button, delete the message and save changes and don't feel embarrassed !..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT - As usual my good friend Dro always makes better sense than I do, I forgot to say you cant delete the post unless the Mods agree, but you can edit it and remove the contents - Thanks Dro !..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh dear lord I've double posted. How do I delete one of my posts? I don't see the option in the edit page. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is embarrassing, if someone could teach me so I can learn my lesson, that would be great. My first assignment can be deleting this post!_

 

You can't delete your posts. You can ask the mods to delete your post, but I think they rarely do. The best option is to edit one of your posts and delete the contents of it. That way it isn't very conspicuous.
 (Double posts simply happen and can happen to anyone. Although the 'quick reply' option is apparently the main source of them.)

 EDIT: Of course I could just let Sandchak do all the 'Compass customer service' today.


----------



## Skibumef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can't delete your posts. You can ask the mods to delete your post, but I think they rarely do. The best option is to edit one of your posts and delete the contents of it. That way it isn't very conspicuous.
 (Double posts simply happen and can happen to anyone. Although the 'quick reply' option is apparently the main source of them.)

 EDIT: Of course I could just let Sandchak do all the 'Compass customer service' today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the advice! Haha, double posts "can happen to anyone"... sounds like a terrible disease.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the advice! Haha, double posts "can happen to anyone"... sounds like a terrible disease._

 

Well, you seemed very upset about it.


----------



## ExtraNice

Quote:


 Checked the shipping page, and there's my name! Wooo-hoooo! Ohhh yah, ohhh yah (swinging fists in the air, dissolving into embarrassing dance). I would actually yell out but it's 3:18 AM and I would definitely wake my roomate. You know what, screw him. 
 

This is about 4 day old news.  should check more often.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is about 4 day old news.  should check more often._

 

Well.. he isn't wrong, thats the latest on Audio GD shipment website..


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Couple of days before I got an email from Cherry saying :

 Because you have brought the audio-gd power cable,is it possible for us not to ship the common power cable to you? When we add the value is USD1 common cable to you,the weight of the package is over ,we have to pay more shipping cost.
 How do you think?

 I ordered the whole package with all the HDAM modules. Did anyone get an similar query ? Just curious...

 Anyway, I replied saying its fine. I got that email on monday, which made me think mine will be shipped on Tuesday..but seems like there was no batch shipped on Tuesday...so hopefully tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!_

 

I ordered the power cable along with the Sun and Moon and it came in one package, including the stock power cable. The shippers must be sticklers since the stock power cord only weighs a couple ounces.


----------



## ExtraNice

Had to clear the catche....

 I'm not on the list. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe he sent it out in batches... hopefully I'll be in the 240V batch. What I'm scared of right now is maybe he's hasn't received/ known I've paid. He's confirmed I've paid... but... I'm being paranoid.


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Had to clear the catche....
 What I'm scared of right now is maybe he's hasn't received/ known I've paid. He's confirmed I've paid... but... I'm being paranoid._

 

If he confirmed by e-mail i don't see why he isn't received it, just chill.


----------



## ExtraNice

I know i should. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm just a pretty paranoid guy. And since this the first time I used Paypal, I don't know how effective the system is.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question... will this ASIO stuff affect anything (in a negative way) when I only use my onboard soundcard?_

 

ASIO4ALL does improve onboard sound card quality because it bypasses the kmixer. PM me if you run into any trouble.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just bought a headphone setup: AKG K701 (which I like very much!), Marantz SA7001 cd-player and Heed CanAmp.
 Now I think about expanding the setup already. I think I want a Compass, so I have few questions, to which I am sure you experts have answers:
 1. Has anybody compared the CanAmp to the Compass using K701?_

 

No, not to my knowledge.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2. Which is the best way to connect the Compass to my Marantz - can I do it digitally when using the Compass only as a headphone amplifier?_

 

A digital signal from your Marantz player will have to be decoded by a DAC before it can be amplified by the headphone amp. So that means that you will either use an analog connection between the cd player and the Compass and let the DAC of the cd player do the DA conversion, or you could send the digital output of your cd player (either optical or coaxial) to the Compass DAC and let that DAC do the DA conversion.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_3. Can I use the Compass DAC witk my Marantz and improve the sound and at the same time use the headphone amplifier? If yes, how do I connect?_

 

Yes, you can simply connect the digital output (coaxial or optical) from your cd player to the Compass DAC. Whether that's an improvement on the analog output of your cd player is hard to say beforehand, because no one has made that particular comparison yet.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_4. Is it correct, that used only as a headphone amplifier there is no need to buy the Moon and Sun OPAs as they are not in use in this capacity(and the Earth as well)?_

 

Yes, that is correct. Only the DAC of the Compass uses the OPAs, they wouldn't be necessary if you would go straight to the Compass amp and use only that. However, if you feel that you only need a headphone amp and not a DAC, it would be better to spend your money simply on a good amp.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_5. Quite another matter: I hate talking about things and not know how to pronounce words correctly. Here in Denmark everybody says Grado with an a as in father. Is this correct or should it be a as in great or maybe even something else?_

 

As far as I know that is not correct. Although the Grado family originally comes from Italy, the way they pronounce their surname has been "Americanized", so it is actually pronounced with an "a" as in "ape" (and a stress on the first syllable).


 For some more info on how the Compass works, you should also check the Compass FAQ.


----------



## ExtraNice

@Haloxt: Ok. Thanks.

 I have received dreadful news. My compass shall be shipping next week.


----------



## Hot Pixel

Well, that's better than no news at all right?


----------



## sarathcpt

I am on the list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! Do they usually mail us the tracking no. soon ? Didn't get any yet.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am on the list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! Do they usually mail us the tracking no. soon ? Didn't get any yet._

 

It might take a day or so. Audio-gd has to wait until they get the tracking number from DHL/EMS.


----------



## csroc

They're mailing more out over the next two days as well aren't they? Wonder how many will finally have shipped out by the end of this week.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They're mailing more out over the next two days as well aren't they? Wonder how many will finally have shipped out by the end of this week._

 

Well, it seems like another two days of shipping would be a must if they want to ship all 130 Compass ordered (final version) , although I am not too sure if that number is only International orders or local and International combined, and ordered before 31st March..


----------



## Eric M

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *http://www.audio-gd.com/consignment.htm* 
_USA Eric Compass DHL_


----------



## ScottieB

Haha yeah I have a few boxes lying around now that say "USA Scott" on them. Kinda chuckle every time I see that. Just got my Grado 325is in today! And by tonight the compass should have about 500 hours (not counting anything Kingwa did before he sent it out) - 350 of those in soft 2... so it should be broken in. Can't wait to start experimenting with the Moon (already burned in from my Zero) Earth, and new Sun V2 (no burn-in yet) and the various modes of the compass amp. Not to mention playing with the DAC and LDMKIII - so far all I've really done is listen while burning in! With headphones so different I wonder if I'll find a mode that suits them all... 

 In listening while burning in, Soft2 was vastly different from Bright - which it should be I guess. With my ultrasone hfi780s, which are pretty bright, soft2 with the earth was pretty enjoyable. But soft2 was FAR too laid back for my HD600s. They sounded much better to me with bright mode... but I fear bright will be a bit much for the new Grados... so with the wife away this weekend looks like I have something to do!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sounds good Scottie...... a fun weekend ahead for you. Congrats on the Grado score ! Be sure to post your impressions of what you discover over the weekend as I'm sure lots of us here will be interested in the results. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Happy Easter to all that give a darn about such things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !

 Peete.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Checked the shipping page, and there's my name! Wooo-hoooo! Ohhh yah, ohhh yah (swinging fists in the air, dissolving into embarrassing dance)._

 

X2. Mine looked a bit like this v


----------



## tj2220

I got mine! Had to put a little pressure to DHL personel and drive 260 km to DHL Business Park at Vantaa but I GOT IT!


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tj2220* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine! Had to put a little pressure to DHL personel and drive 260 km to DHL Business Park at Vantaa but I GOT IT! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

Hey that's awesome! How much did you have to pay? I'll have to call them too on tuesday/wednesday if nothing has happened.


----------



## tj2220

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yepyep_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey that's awesome! How much did you have to pay? I'll have to call them too on tuesday/wednesday if nothing has happened. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Dunno yet, said they'll send me a bill. I suggest you call on tuesday, it seems that the loudest get served first. And you'll need to email your social security number (tai mikä tuo sosiaaliturvatunnus englanniksi lienee?) and a print screen of your paypal payment transaction to ennakko(at)dhl.com.


----------



## ecclesand

Has anyone from this latest batch of Compass shipments received any tracking information yet?


----------



## driftingbunnies

no i have not


----------



## Skibumef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone from this latest batch of Compass shipments received any tracking information yet?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no i have not_

 

Me neither


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone from this latest batch of Compass shipments received any tracking information yet?_

 

Nor have I. I check once every hour or so anyway though!


----------



## Skibumef

Reading my name on that list was like seeing the plus sign on a pregnancy test, and now I'm just eagerly waiting for the ultrasound (I mean e-mail) to see that my baby is real and on the way! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: It better not take nine months to be delivered.
 EDIT: It's an extended metaphor, in case you're confused. I am not pregnant, nor anatomically capable of becoming pregnant, unless I'm Ahhnold from that movie whose name I can't remember.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I know that is not correct. Although the Grado family originally comes from Italy, the way they pronounce their surname has been "Americanized", so it is actually pronounced with an "a" as in "ape" (and a stress on the first syllable).[/URL]_

 

I've always pronounced it as graydough/greydough. If the native non-English speakers don't understand the "dough", it rhymes with mow(mowing the grass on the lawn) or snow(white frozen flakes of water).

 Pronunciation is the biggest downside to the English language. The same spelling can have different meanings, and different pronunciations. And different spellings can sound exactly the same...

 Happy listening! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've always pronounced it as graydough/greydough. If the native non-English speakers don't understand the "dough", it rhymes with mow(mowing the grass on the lawn) or snow(white frozen flakes of water).

 Pronunciation is the biggest downside to the English language. The same spelling can have different meanings, and different pronunciations. And different spellings can sound exactly the same...

 Happy listening! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

I too have always said graydough. I didn't realise there was any other way!


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

It was then the scrawny bug met the closed slice.


----------



## halcyon725

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So today, I received my shipment of the Audio-GD compass. Upon plugging in the co-axial cable, everything worked nicely. I decided to try the USB DAC function, which also worked fine. However, for some reason now, my XtremeMusic doesn't work anymore! If I have both plugged in at once, it iwll go to the DAC. If I only have the co-axial cable plugged in, it doesn't work at all. Does anyone know why this conflict arose?_

 

Did the USB automatically override as your primary audio device when it installed? If so, you'll need to switch it back to the XtremeMusic in Windows for it to work.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The aspiring city can't obey the claim.


----------



## halcyon725

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did switch different options. When I was in ASIO4ALL (since I use that for foobar to output to my digital out on my x-fi card), it said that Status: Logically unavailable or something like that . "Your computer hates you!"_

 

I figured it wasn't something that simple > <.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I too have always said graydough. I didn't realise there was any other way! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There isn't really, but it's not uncommon in many European countries to pronounce it in a more 'Italian manner'. I think they say 'graydough' here in The Netherlands too though.


----------



## Mingo

Thank you very much for answering my questions.
 Especially to Drosera for taking the time. This really helped.
 I do hope, however, to hear from someone who has compared the sound of the Compass to the CanAmp when using the AKG K701.


----------



## FallenAngel

Ok, I'll bite, I'm looking for one for my girlfriend now


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jzkpr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, I think iTunes plays it thru as 96/24.

 It looks like the Compass or Core Audio is down-sampling to to 48/16 (if I am reading this properly)





_

 


 What is happen in here is that when you use the USB connection only 48/16 audio is available (because of the computer's USB audio (settings/codecs/hardware)). However if you chose to use coax or optical digital output from the computer the information can be sent as 96/24 audio and still be decoded correctly by the compass.

 I am going to be ordering a Compass soon, I have been wanting one for a couple months now. I can't wait.


----------



## WallyPower

Good news, the strange finish on my compass is gone.
 After some fingerrubbing I found out that it is some kind of clear wax/grease stuf. With some warm water and soap it comes of very easily 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But why would they put it on the Compass? I know the do it with cars, but why on audio equipment?


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WallyPower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good news, the strange finish on my compass is gone.
 After some fingerrubbing I found out that it is some kind of clear wax/grease stuf. With some warm water and soap it comes of very easily 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But why would they put it on the Compass? I know the do it with cars, but why on audio equipment?_

 

To prevent scratches on the surface ?

 By the way my compass have been ordered.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did switch different options. When I was in ASIO4ALL (since I use that for foobar to output to my digital out on my x-fi card), it said that Status: Logically unavailable or something like that . "Your computer hates you!"_

 

Try switching default playback option to xtreme music (with and again without compass connected) in control panel>sound. What exactly does the error message pop up? Tried doing a search for "status: logically unavailable" and got nothing.


----------



## WallyPower

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Omega17TheTrue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To prevent scratches on the surface ?

 By the way my compass have been ordered. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

isn't that the function of the bubble wrap? and it was way to thin to protect anything...
 congrats on your decision, you wont regret it...


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WallyPower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_isn't that the function of the bubble wrap? and it was way to thin to protect anything..._

 

By the looks of it, it was a residue that came from the bubblewrap and that was pressed into the surface of the compass by the packaging foam.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The overt diamond can't observe the nature.


----------



## squall343

anyone know whether audio gd have or is planning to produce usb dac which is better than the compass?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone know whether audio gd have or is planning to produce usb dac which is better than the compass?_

 

Yes, as far as I know the DAC-19SE MkIII/and/or the Reference Three will have USB. (It's not quite certain whether the Reference Three is still coming or not.) It will be a DAC based on the mono PCM1704, it will either have two or four of those chips.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, as far as I know the DAC-19SE MkIII/and/or the Reference Three will have USB. (It's not quite certain whether the Reference Three is still coming or not.) It will be a DAC based on the mono PCM1704, it will either have two or four of those chips._

 

thanks

 is there any url link for the reference theree because i can't seem to find them on their website

 as for the dac 19se MkIII.. Is it this one?
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks

 is there any url link for the reference theree because i can't seem to find them on their website

 as for the dac 19se MkIII.. Is it this one?
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1_

 

Yes, more or less (it's going through redesign). Here's a link to the previous version in English. As to the Reference Three, there's still an old page here, but that also will look different in the end.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've always pronounced it as graydough/greydough. If the native non-English speakers don't understand the "dough", it rhymes with mow(mowing the grass on the lawn) or snow(white frozen flakes of water).

 Pronunciation is the biggest downside to the English language. The same spelling can have different meanings, and different pronunciations. And different spellings can sound exactly the same...

 Happy listening! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Lol.... why do I feel as though I'm back in school again?


----------



## Rinshin

Finally bit the bullet and bought the compass! Now the wait for it arrive on my porch... hope it doesn't feel too long.


----------



## sarathcpt

I just got the tracking no. from Cherry..my package is right now at Hong Kong. 

 However, the 'To' address in DHL page doesn't show my street address. Just my name,city,state and zip. I would guess they wouldn't ship a package without a street address ??


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got the tracking no. from Cherry..my package is right now at Hong Kong. 

 However, the 'To' address in DHL page doesn't show my street address. Just my name,city,state and zip. I would guess they wouldn't ship a package without a street address ??_

 

That's correct. No courier tracking page shows the full address, for obvious security reasons, as you wouldn't want it possible for people to find out where something expensive was being delivered.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WallyPower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good news, the strange finish on my compass is gone.
 After some fingerrubbing I found out that it is some kind of clear wax/grease stuf. With some warm water and soap it comes of very easily 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But why would they put it on the Compass? I know the do it with cars, but why on audio equipment?_

 

Good stuff. I tend to recall the finish on mine looked odd initially, but the differences were down to where the polystyrene had been on the aluminium...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol.... why do I feel as though I'm back in school again? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Damnit! It's a long time since I've been at school, but I do apologise for taking folk back to the nasty classroom. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How rubbish... there's me, genuinely trying to help a fellow Fi'er, and I'm ridiculed... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a just-as-light note, I've recently been introduced to the benefits of satellite/cable TV, and I've got VH1 classic on. "Suzanne Vega - Luka" has just been on, and she's the total spit of my neighbour's wife...






 ~Phewl.


----------



## Eric M

Got my tracking # just now too. Also just realized I didn't specify the voltage I needed, hopefully they will automatically assume I need the 100-120V version since they are shipping to the USA...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good stuff. I tend to recall the finish on mine looked odd initially, but the differences were down to where the polystyrene had been on the aluminium...



 Damnit! It's a long time since I've been at school, but I do apologise for taking folk back to the nasty classroom. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How rubbish... there's me, genuinely trying to help a fellow Fi'er, and I'm ridiculed... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a just-as-light note, I've recently been introduced to the benefits of satellite/cable TV, and I've got VH1 classic on. "Suzanne Vega - Luka" has just been on, and she's the total spit of my neighbour's wife...






 ~Phewl._

 

Great song too! I was just listening to this about a week ago.

 .


----------



## AudioPhewl

It is... Some of the words hit me quite hard, it's more powerful than I initially thought after just hearing it in the background when in the car and whatnot...

 Right, am off to bed. It's 3.17am here, and I'm far too ugly to have such little beauty sleep...!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is... Some of the words hit me quite hard, it's more powerful than I initially thought after just hearing it in the background when in the car and whatnot...

 Right, am off to bed. It's 3.17am here, and I'm far too ugly to have such little beauty sleep...!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Agreed, If you are just hearing the "Hook" line in a car as background sound, it's a totally different experience than listening to it late at night, good speakers or canz, the lights down, and following the "story'.

 .


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WallyPower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_isn't that the function of the bubble wrap? and it was way to thin to protect anything...
 congrats on your decision, you wont regret it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My Compass was packaged with clear wrap similar to the wrap used at dry cleaners. The bubble wrap is definitely better to protect against bumps and scratches. Glad to see Kingwa continue to improve on the Audio-gd customer experience.


----------



## cyberidd

I too just got my tracking number from Cherry. Apparently its sitting in Shanghai right now. Does anyone else who used EMS know about how long it takes to get from there to North America, or even better Canada? I cried out so loud when I saw my TN that I sacred my mom right out of her chair in the next room!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

3-4 days cyber is all it took to get to me. You should see it by Wed of next week or possibly earlier. Tough to say for sure since Customs is either really quick or really slow. 

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got the tracking no. from Cherry..my package is right now at Hong Kong. 

 However, the 'To' address in DHL page doesn't show my street address. Just my name,city,state and zip. I would guess they wouldn't ship a package without a street address ??_

 


This page will send you email with your tracking status, usually that will also include the full address is given on the package, so you can check.

 You can also apply for regular email updates about your package on that site. The service is available once you entered a tracking number on the tracking page.


----------



## Nidhogg22

Just checking here, with the cost of the Compass + shipping to UK + 4% Paypal charge it comes to $321 or £220 + the possible import taxes, is this correct?


----------



## dBs

Bit of an unexpected problem. I noticed while playing CS:S today that the right side of my headphones seemed muted. I had a feeling that it was the Sun HDAM itself (as I was still burning it in) instead of the Compass. Just to make sure I wasnt hearing things I turned my headphones around on my head and sure enough my left ear went "HEY! Wheres the sound?". I swapped out the Sun for the Neutral and sure enough the balance returned. I suspect my Sun HDAM is not working properly for some reason. There is still sound but its definitely muted, its likely a lower quiescent current on the HDAM is my guess as that would keep the integrity of the sound but loose the volume.

 However, there is some good news, Prickley Peete was right, the Neutral+Bright is a really fun sound. It really makes rock sound good. Nightwish - Sacrament of the Wilderness sounds completely different this way. The snare drum (I think), really comes to life. The entire drum line up for the most part starts to pop nicely. This is a great setting for rock music. It gives the HD650s a DT770 2005 sort of sound (though with more mid section) but without all of the high harshness (though there might still be some). It maintains the highs presence like in the DT770, it just keeps your ears more intact. I think this is the setting I will have to use for my dad since this is the sort of sound I think he liked. Ill have to do more comparison between this setting and the Moon+Bright since these two seem to be the best two that Ive found so far. Maybe that Bright just makes things sing.


----------



## Oweny

just wondering what level of cans would you considered doing justice to compass? just ordered the compass and haven't decide on my cans yet


----------



## Hot Pixel

Heh, it's actually common to buy the headphone and then the amp that goes with it.
 I still haven't got my shipping info. Not even on the list, even though I ordered on the 20th


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still haven't got my shipping info. Not even on the list, even though I ordered on the 20th 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's odd, sounds like you need to ask Cherry what the status of your order is.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still haven't got my shipping info. Not even on the list, even though I ordered on the 20th 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Like Dro said, better ask Cherry, because there will be a shipment of Compass leaving tomorrow (Sunday)..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Just checking here, with the cost of the Compass + shipping to UK + 4% Paypal charge it comes to $321 or £220 + the possible import taxes, is this correct? 
 

That looks correct through EMS Shipping..


----------



## Hot Pixel

The dudes @ audio gd are awesome:
  Quote:


 Sorry for the delay.
 We will ship your compass tomorrow.
 Best regards.
 Cherry 
 

It took 30 minutes to personally answer an email.
 On a Saturday.

 But back on topic: a DAC makes a sound card obsolete right? Or will it be wise to buy an additional x-fi titanium for example?
 Also; somebody here has their speakers for sale. He says they output 95db @ 1.5w (or something). That got me thinking: audio-gd has this beautiful poweramp for sale to go with the compass; but is it necessary for speakers like that? You can theoretically hang efficient passive speakers on the pre-amp out right?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That got me thinking: audio-gd has this beautiful poweramp for sale to go with the compass; but is it necessary for speakers like that? You can theoretically hang efficient passive speakers on the pre-amp out right?_

 

I fear from the preamp out of Compass, you can only use active speakers (with inbuilt amp), ..but you are right, the Panther looks beautiful..


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the convincing heart ate the assistance?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been having problems with the compass (or perhaps its something in my computer). Every so often, I hear loud hissing in one of the L or R channels. Sometimes it is on the left side, sometimes it is on the right side. When I stop foobar/ASIO4ALL and replay the song, it disappears -- only to return unpredictably. I know it is not part of the song recording itself. Does anyone know where this problem could lie?

 Edit: I'm using USB_

 

Might be computer generated interference, but most probably it's ASIO... So try listening without ASIO for a while and see if the problem occurs then. (I can certainly say that the Otachan build for foobar 0.8 I'm using is certainly not "bug-free" either.)


----------



## ExtraNice

Yes, I think they posted the compass's in batches according to voltage.

 EDIT: Just a guess here... but the Compass hissing wouldn't be due to grounding problems right? Would the Compass have grounding problems?


----------



## Currawong

Grounding problems usually show up as a consistant hum or similar. As I understand it, the Compass has some protection against that. Intermittent weird sounds are more than likely your computer or interference somewhere.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The dudes @ audio gd are awesome:

 It took 30 minutes to personally answer an email.
 On a Saturday.

 But back on topic: a DAC makes a sound card obsolete right? Or will it be wise to buy an additional x-fi titanium for example?
 Also; somebody here has their speakers for sale. He says they output 95db @ 1.5w (or something). That got me thinking: audio-gd has this beautiful poweramp for sale to go with the compass; but is it necessary for speakers like that? You can theoretically hang efficient passive speakers on the pre-amp out right?_

 

I only know so much about speakers and the like, but you have to watch out when hooking up speaks to something not powerful enough to drive them as you could fry your Compass. I would expect that the safest thing to do would be to just go with the Panther or another power amp.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_3-4 days cyber is all it took to get to me. You should see it by Wed of next week or possibly earlier. Tough to say for sure since Customs is either really quick or really slow. 

 Peete._

 

Well, I have some exams to write this coming week (I start tuesday, finish the tuesday after that) and it would probably be better for my studying if it came later... NAH ASAP WORKS FOR ME! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I still have a hard time believing that it can ship from China that quickly!


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oweny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just wondering what level of cans would you considered doing justice to compass? just ordered the compass and haven't decide on my cans yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'd say good headphones between $150-300 if you only have compass and stock everything else, more detailed headphones if you plan to upgrade things like power and headphone cable. Then you might consider some of the higher end stuff like the C-2c or Dac19. My new headphones has shown me that it's actually bad to upgrade to a too revealing headphone if other things aren't up to par (modding the headphones fixes that, but I'm stubborn :/).

 What I mean is I think high end gear is more sensitive to noise in cables than other stuff, I actually find crap source sounding better than expensive source when I take away custom power but retain headphone cable, or find expensive source sounding better by taking away all rather than everything but keeping the headphone cable. Then there's also the issue of the quality of what you listen to, it's unbearable to listen to 128kbps cbr with my best setup while very enjoyable when I take many parts out.


----------



## theBigD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been having problems with the compass (or perhaps its something in my computer). Every so often, I hear loud hissing in one of the L or R channels. Sometimes it is on the left side, sometimes it is on the right side. When I stop foobar/ASIO4ALL and replay the song, it disappears -- only to return unpredictably. I know it is not part of the song recording itself. Does anyone know where this problem could lie?

 Edit: I'm using USB_

 

Probably your computer. But it could also be the hdam is not seated well in the socket. Sometimes if it isnt making contact you will get an intermitant hissing with certain freq. also make sure ground to hdam is secure.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But back on topic: a DAC makes a sound card obsolete right? Or will it be wise to buy an additional x-fi titanium for example?_

 

This is a tiny bit tricky. You still need a transport - coax optical or USB... IMO the best thing to do it try your built-in sound card's digital out, if you get noise or are not satisfied, try USB, and then if you still aren't happy (or need 24-bit 96khz playback like for DVD-A or SACD) THEN try a dedicated sound card like an x-fi. I have a sound card for the gaming features, but in testing the coax out from my onboard sound card I got a lot of "static"... so I use the coax out of my xfi.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The dudes @ audio gd are awesome:

 It took 30 minutes to personally answer an email.
 On a Saturday.

 But back on topic: a DAC makes a sound card obsolete right? Or will it be wise to buy an additional x-fi titanium for example?
 Also; somebody here has their speakers for sale. He says they output 95db @ 1.5w (or something). That got me thinking: audio-gd has this beautiful poweramp for sale to go with the compass; but is it necessary for speakers like that? You can theoretically hang efficient passive speakers on the pre-amp out right?_

 

If you buy that Poweramp you mentioned, you'll be able to run "un-amplified" spkrs fine. If the spkrs you are looking at are amped, you can run them from the Compass. 

 .


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This page will send you email with your tracking status, usually that will also include the full address is given on the package, so you can check.

 You can also apply for regular email updates about your package on that site. The service is available once you entered a tracking number on the tracking page._

 

Thanks Drosera for the link


----------



## punk_guy182

Does having the preamp switch in the front alter SQ in any way?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does having the preamp switch in the front alter SQ in any way?_

 

Nope. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete


----------



## csroc

So have they caught up on shipping? I was expecting to see more go out the past couple days.


----------



## cyberidd

^^ I heard that they were shipping more out on Sunday, plus batch 1 and 2 already gone, then I think its just the later orders to complete and ship.


----------



## Zanth

I ended up leaving my Compass at work, powered on for the four day weekend. With all the festivities and family coming over, I wouldn't have been able to listen but I still want to run some comparative tests before I start writing my review. I have looked for a unit like the Compass for years, particularly with an internal bypass for the amp section. I'm very enthusiastic about all the products coming out that are making desktop listening such a joy.


----------



## squall343

seem like audio gd just updated some of their products(dac)

 the dac19
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 dac200
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 but no sign of the reference 3 yet


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_seem like audio gd just updated some of their products(dac)

 the dac19
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 dac200
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 but no sign of the reference 3 yet_

 

Thanks for the update !..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Like I mentioned once before, I have a feeling that Ref3 is shelved for sometime to come if not for good.. again this is IMHO ..


----------



## K3cT

Reference 3 is getting canned based on my last chat with Kingwa. He mentioned about not being able to get some TAB certificates or something.


----------



## ttnl

The DAC19MK3 circuit board layout looks so different from the DAC19SE. I wonder how it sounds compared to DAC19SE. Look like DAC19MK3 uses less components than DAC19SE, or Kingwa just re-arranges the components to fit in a smaller case.


----------



## Chu

Anyone know if they ship the extra OPAs in a separate box? Just noticed that according to DHL, my package is 4.4 pounds.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know if they ship the extra OPAs in a separate box? Just noticed that according to DHL, my package is 4.4 pounds._

 

No they ship the OPA in the same box as compass, and in any case the OPAs hardly weigh anything.. btw, the weight mentioned in the DHL website doesn't always mean its the actual weight of the package. I recently received a 35Kg package from Kingwa, where the DHL website stated it was 22 pounds.


----------



## punk_guy182

What is so special about Ref3?
 Will it be a special DAC for computer audio applications?
 Will it be able to control jitter coming from computer?
 I have a bit-perfect capable audio codec that I am using via TOSlink.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ended up leaving my Compass at work, powered on for the four day weekend. With all the festivities and family coming over, I wouldn't have been able to listen but I still want to run some comparative tests before I start writing my review. I have looked for a unit like the Compass for years, particularly with an internal bypass for the amp section. I'm very enthusiastic about all the products coming out that are making desktop listening such a joy._

 

I hear you Zanth. It's a good time for audio in general, as good as it's ever been over the years for red book and vinyl IMHO.

 Have a great Easter weekend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is so special about Ref3?
 Will it be a special DAC for computer audio applications?
 Will it be able to control jitter coming from computer?
 I have a bit-perfect capable audio codec that I am using via TOSlink._

 

Best to ask Kingwa about jitter. He mentioned that BNC and coax had the lowest jitter.

 Looks like instead of the Ref 3, we have the DAC19 MK3. A quick calculation shows that DAC 19MK3 + C2C = $838 + shipping, and $958 + shipping if you buy two power cords with them. With a set of basically decent ICs (Blue Jeans, Audio-gd?) then it rounds out to a cool $1k for a good dynamic rig.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nidhogg22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just checking here, with the cost of the Compass + shipping to UK + 4% Paypal charge it comes to $321 or £220 + the possible import taxes, is this correct?_

 

Yes, that's about what I paid(excluding exchange rate variations - I think mine came in at around £230, before going up a little higher).

 Not sure how to say it subtly... Taxes aren't a big problem. Mine came to £20, or just under, including the handling fee for the courier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 ~Phewl.


----------



## Mario_Fpolis

Hello, guys, do not know if anybody had the time to take a closer look to the new DAC 200, but I got kind of sad.
 I maybe vely vely wlong, but the pictures, at last for me, show that the DAC section of the Compass and DAC 200 is exactly the same.

http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/EARpic/Compass3.jpg
http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/pro/dac/DAC200/DAC200.jpg

 So, why to buy a much expensive piece of equipment, that is also only a DAC, instead of another one that is also a HP amp?

 As I'm taking it, the major difference is the " double parallel voltage regulators to lower the internal resistance and to purify power supply", but is it worth it?

 I feel a little sad, since I did not buyed the Compass in order to get DAC 200, but it do not seem like a smart move anymore.


----------



## Currawong

Mario: 

 I iamgine that since the power circuitry can be dedicated to the DAC and its output stage, the result will be better sound.


----------



## Mario_Fpolis

Thanks, Curra!

 But, and that is the million dollar question, does it worth it?

 I guess I will have to take one for the team.

 But here in Brazil I think there will be no one near me to do a test and check things out.

 Another thing that is different is that DAC 200 does not have a special intro price.

 Saaaaaad.

 All best, Mário


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, that's a good question. I was holding out on getting a compass untill I could see what the dac 200 was going to be like. The almost 100 increase from the previous dac 100 made me pull the trigger on the compass. I have a nice tube amp, so I don't need a headphone amp. That's why I was considering the dac 200. But now, it's just a little bit out of my budget. It may sound a little better than the compass, but IMO, I don't think it will sound that much better. I think the dac 100 was at a great price point. Now don't get me wrong. Considering everything I've read, even with a 100.00 price increase, it still may compete with products way and beyond it's price point. But having an extra headphone amp can only be a good thing. I guess it would be a nice change of pace from my mingda mc84-c07.


----------



## insyte

The DAC 200 looks interesting. But I was surprised with the price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Its more expensive than the compass


----------



## Mario_Fpolis

Coudn't agree more.

 I think that getting rid of the DAC 100 is not a good idea, considering the price increase.

 I just got the Little Dot I Plus to work, and was willing the DAC 100/200 to my home gear, but now it seems that Compass get more and more interisting, also because I get a very good SS amp in the package.


----------



## gilency

Compass, DrDac: both look interesting. I wonder which one is better.....


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DAC 200 looks interesting. But I was surprised with the price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Its more expensive than the compass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Only until the Compass' promotional period expires. You're comparing one item at full price, versus another that's steeply discounted from what it's worth.


----------



## squall343

Look like Audio GD also work during sunday

 but the person replying my email seem unsure about how good is the DAC200 and the DAC19 compared to the compass

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *insyte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DAC 200 looks interesting. But I was surprised with the price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Its more expensive than the compass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

the way the dac200 is priced, seem like we can expect a hefty price increase for the compass after the promo period


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look like Audio GD also work during sunday

 but the person replying my email seem unsure about how good is the DAC200 and the DAC19 compared to the compass



 the way the dac200 is priced, seem like we can expect a hefty price increase for the compass after the promo period_

 

I personally don't think there will be a hefty hike on Compass price after the promo period, in fact I wont be surprised if the final price of Compass is very close to DAC200.

 But you need to understand that Compass was a joint effort of a few Head-fiers lead by Curra and Audio GD, and Kingwa appreciates that, which is why the final price of Compass might be very low, You cant compare prices of other Audio GD products with compass only for this reason. I am sure if Compass was made solely with Audio GD's effort like the other gears, then the price of Compass to begin with would be around USD450 + shipping.

 So if I look at it that way, then I feel the price of DAC200 with the upgrades like the new board, chassis, better power supply and Solen upgrade is fair enough and in line with other Audio GD gears, once you start comparing the price of Compass with DAC200 without taking into consideration what I mentioned above, only then will you find some major disparity when it comes to pricing.

 Again all this IMHO..


----------



## Mario_Fpolis

double post, sorry.


----------



## Mario_Fpolis

I was talking to Kingwa right now, asking about a promo price for DAC 200, since it is a new product, and he was telling me to go to Compass.

 He indeed said that the improvements were "extra four PSU and use the SOLEN couple caps let the sound less digital", in his own words, much similar with yours.

 I am confused right now, do not know what to buy.

 But since here is 3 a.m. I think it is time to go to bed, rest a little, read a little, and then go for one model or another.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mario_Fpolis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was talking to Kingwa right now, asking about a promo price for DAC 200, since it is a new product, and he was telling me to go to Compass.

 He indeed said that the improvements were "extra four PSU and use the SOLEN couple caps let the sound less digital", in his own words, much similar with yours.

 I am confused right now, do not know what to buy.

 But since here is 3 a.m. I think it is time to go to bed, rest a little, read a little, and then go for one model or another._

 

Yeah you do need some sleep !..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and decide later, I would have looked at my needs first and then what the product offers.. and in any case, going separates is always better than Combos as far as SQ is concerned.. but then the price of Compass is so enticing ..IMHO.


----------



## squall343

audio gd just reply me regarding the reference 3..
 according to them...it will not be out anytime soon.
 since they are having problem with the usb development

 as for the dac19mk3.
 According to kingwa himself, it will be very different from both the compass and the dac200
 and compared to other dac around the price range by other brands
 the dac19mk3 is not coloured but rather neutral and highly dependent on the source


 as for the differences between to dac200 and the compass..
 i quote him "DAC200 sound like Compass but has a bit upgrade and less digital sound."


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The devoted football can't whirl the distribution.


----------



## GoodRevrnd

So for the folks who got their tracking numbers on the 10th, when did you order and when did they way they would ship? I ordered on the 30th and they were claiming shipment on 4-10, but I haven't heard anything yet.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GoodRevrnd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So for the folks who got their tracking numbers on the 10th, when did you order and when did they way they would ship? I ordered on the 30th and they were claiming shipment on 4-10, but I haven't heard anything yet._

 

As far as I know, ALL Compass ordered till 31st March has been shipped today !..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_as for the dac19mk3.
 According to kingwa himself, it will be very different from both the compass and the dac200
 and compared to other dac around the price range by other brands
 the dac19mk3 is not coloured but rather neutral and highly dependent on the source_

 

If it's anything like my Reference 1, it'll have no colouration at all.


----------



## Hottuna_

Looks like 42 Compasses going out today.
 Mine included.
 Interesting to see all the Australian orders going by EMS.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Best to ask Kingwa about jitter. He mentioned that BNC and coax had the lowest jitter.

 Looks like instead of the Ref 3, we have the DAC19 MK3. A quick calculation shows that DAC 19MK3 + C2C = $838 + shipping, and $958 + shipping if you buy two power cords with them. With a set of basically decent ICs (Blue Jeans, Audio-gd?) then it rounds out to a cool $1k for a good dynamic rig._

 

I think that will be the eventual SS setup for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Recabling and woody-ing my D2000 comes first though.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think that will be the eventual SS setup for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Recabling and woody-ing my D2000 comes first though._

 

I have both the Compass and DAC19SE, to me DAC19SE is a big jump from Compass, after all you are entering into a serious standalone DAC territory and according to Kingwa, DAC19SE was the one DAC that shared some qualities of REF1, although at the lowest end of the ladder.. so I am sure you will enjoy !..


----------



## Nidhogg22

Has anyone compared this to the M^3?


----------



## Hot Pixel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a tiny bit tricky. You still need a transport - coax optical or USB... IMO the best thing to do it try your built-in sound card's digital out, if you get noise or are not satisfied, try USB, and then if you still aren't happy (or need 24-bit 96khz playback like for DVD-A or SACD) THEN try a dedicated sound card like an x-fi. I have a sound card for the gaming features, but in testing the coax out from my onboard sound card I got a lot of "static"... so I use the coax out of my xfi._

 

I actually asked because I'm a gamer and I'm intrigued by the options that an x-fi card might give me. There's some impressions in this thread regarding gaming with the compass, and it was quite favorable.
 I'm wondering you hook the compass up using usb, the processing the x-fi chip does doesn't actually reach your ears right (since you send the audio through the usb instead of the sound card)? And the whole point of coax/optical is to send things bit-perfect right? So if you buy one such a card for sound-processing use; does it have any (use that is)?

 *if I'm not making any sense it's because I'm sick. Don't judge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*


----------



## ttnl

I read some posts in which people said they were chatting with Kingwa. So, does anyone have the chat screen name of Kingwa? Thanks.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttnl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I read some posts in which people said they were chatting with Kingwa. So, does anyone have the chat screen name of Kingwa? Thanks._

 

U can email audio gd 
audio-gd@126.com

 and either cherry or kingwa will reply

 and they normally do within an hour even through it is weekend for them


----------



## ttnl

Thank you for the reply. Here, I mean chat as in chatting via YM or AIM. Yeah, Kingwa is really good with replying to email though.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually asked because I'm a gamer and I'm intrigued by the options that an x-fi card might give me. There's some impressions in this thread regarding gaming with the compass, and it was quite favorable.
 I'm wondering you hook the compass up using usb, the processing the x-fi chip does doesn't actually reach your ears right (since you send the audio through the usb instead of the sound card)? And the whole point of coax/optical is to send things bit-perfect right? So if you buy one such a card for sound-processing use; does it have any (use that is)?

 *if I'm not making any sense it's because I'm sick. Don't judge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*_

 

I would think you're right - usb would bypass everything. As for the other stuff, the xfi has multiple audio "modes" depending on what you want to do. I use bit perfect (which is available in "audio creation mode") for listening to music and movies, but switch to game mode (no bit perfect, but has the cms3d headphone mode for gaming) for playing games. You really don't need bit perfect for games, the 3d positioning stuff is much more useful and works great with the compass. So with the xfi you'd get both great gaming features AND bit perfect... that's what I do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hope this helps.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have both the Compass and DAC19SE, to me DAC19SE is a big jump from Compass, after all you are entering into a serious standalone DAC territory and according to Kingwa, DAC19SE was the one DAC that shared some qualities of REF1, although at the lowest end of the ladder.. so I am sure you will enjoy !..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sandchak, could you briefly compare the DAC19 and the Compass? Thanks!


----------



## ExtraNice

... And that night Johnny wept bitter and sad tears for his Compass was not on the Sunday delivery list.


----------



## Mario_Fpolis

I feel for you, man!

 Now the feeling, don´t want to be in your pants.

 But tomorrow will be a shiny day, ´though.


----------



## Mario_Fpolis

Double post again.

 Are you having any trouble in this forum with firefox?

 Second time in a row that a double post happens, and I haven´t done anything different.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sandchak, could you briefly compare the DAC19 and the Compass? Thanks!_

 

Sure SS,

 First I must say that since my C2C is yet to reach me, I did the DAC comparison in my main gear, which is speakers. 

 The setup:

 Marantz CD17 (Supra LoRad Power cable) - Canare Coax (RCA to BNC) - DAC19SE/Compass (Audio GD custom power cable) - VDH D102 Hybrid RCA - Audio GD CIA400 (Audio GD custm power cable) - Supra 6.0 cables/VDH Snowline biwired - B&W CDM1.

 The Compass has seen a burn in of over 500 hours, and the DAC19SE only 50.

 The first difference I realized is the space created DA19SE was huge in compared with Compass, Sound stage had no boundaries, but at the same time very precise, and 3 dimensional which the Compass lacks..

 Dynamics - the DAC 19SE handled the dynamic stages of the music more effortlessly than Compass which was wanting at peaks and got me running for the volume to reduce, that did not happen with DAC19..

 Tonal Quality - Compass is fun with changable opamps to suit ones tastes, but thats not the case with DAC19SE, its neutral very neutral, it will give you what you feed it with, I guess this is where you have already taken the first step to Hi-End DAC, in fact the DAC19 shares the same neutrality as REF1, although at the lowest end f the Ladder.

 DAC 19 will not add anything to the music, unlike the Compass can be manipulated with opamps.

 If you want to know, even with the neutrality, when I played one of my favorite Blues vocals Might Sam McClain, which is an excellent recording mastered by another favorite of mine Bernie Grundman. The DAC19 beat the Compass hands down, the Bass was tighter and at the same time extended when it is extended in the music.

 Treble had more Air through the DAC19 than the Compass, more detailed and clarity.

 Mids is where the DAC19 shined more, its more real, voice has more texture, very analogue and not slightly digital as Compass..

 Well, in the end after hearing both, I came to realize that DAC19SE is not exactly an upgrade to Compass, I personally felt DAC19SE is in a different league all together.

 But I see some changes in the design of the new upgraded DAC19MK3, since it is an upgrade I assume it would be better than DAC19SE, but the difference I guess only Kingwa can say.

 To be honest I am very impressed with DAC19SE, so much so that the DAC19SE and CIA amp was bought for the purpose of my main listening gear, and I had placed an order for Panther for my PC setup. Just this morning I canceled the Panther order and I am going to go full balanced with FBI500 and maybe later on REF1 for my main gear..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I understand now what Kingwa meant by Coca Cola and Pure water - I am heading for pure water to quench my thirst !!..

 PS - OH ! for the skeptics I paid in full for Compass and got a slight discount on DAC19SE ( in any case even if my words prove very influential, one cant buy the DAC19SE because is discontinued!!.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GoodRevrnd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So for the folks who got their tracking numbers on the 10th, when did you order and when did they way they would ship? I ordered on the 30th and they were claiming shipment on 4-10, but I haven't heard anything yet._

 

I placed my order on Mar 22nd and made the payment on Mar 27th. They had told mine would ship early april and it did.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have both the Compass and DAC19SE, to me DAC19SE is a big jump from Compass, after all you are entering into a serious standalone DAC territory and according to Kingwa, DAC19SE was the one DAC that shared some qualities of REF1, although at the lowest end of the ladder.. so I am sure you will enjoy !..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Damn sandchak, you are making me salivating now. Can you comment the difference between the the Compass and DAC19SE in terms of performance?

 Wait. You have the old version no?

 EDIT: Kingwa mentioned in his e-mail that DAC19MK3 cannot do 24/96 via USB as he cannot get the TAS1020 certificate for it. It's a pity. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT2: Nvm, you already compared it as per shampoo's reuqest. Thanks anyway, bro.


----------



## Hot Pixel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would think you're right - usb would bypass everything. As for the other stuff, the xfi has multiple audio "modes" depending on what you want to do. I use bit perfect (which is available in "audio creation mode") for listening to music and movies, but switch to game mode (no bit perfect, but has the cms3d headphone mode for gaming) for playing games. You really don't need bit perfect for games, the 3d positioning stuff is much more useful and works great with the compass. So with the xfi you'd get both great gaming features AND bit perfect... that's what I do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hope this helps._

 

It helps loads. Thanks man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Hmm... might save up for an x-fi then (seeing how preludes, xonars etc. aren't as gaming-oriented). I've come across an awful lot of compatibility issues though. Ah well that's a discussion best served in another forum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again.


----------



## edselfordfong

forgive me if this is too elementary a question, or if it's been covered before, but does the included optical cable work with the optical out on an iMac?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It helps loads. Thanks man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Hmm... might save up for an x-fi then (seeing how preludes, xonars etc. aren't as gaming-oriented). I've come across an awful lot of compatibility issues though. Ah well that's a discussion best served in another forum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again._

 

Yeah - in the very short spurts I've had with Vista and Win 7 I had nothing but problems with my xfi card... both times I promptly went back to XP... no idea if you're using vista or 7 but I've had issues there.


----------



## WC Annihilus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It helps loads. Thanks man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Hmm... might save up for an x-fi then (seeing how preludes, xonars etc. aren't as gaming-oriented). I've come across an awful lot of compatibility issues though. Ah well that's a discussion best served in another forum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again._

 

Prelude is X-fi mate


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 EDIT: Kingwa mentioned in his e-mail that DAC19MK3 cannot do 24/96 via USB as he cannot get the TAS1020 certificate for it. It's a pity. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

Doesn't he need the TAS1020B with Centrance firmware instead? The license will probably be too expensive for Compass, so this is more for his reference line dacs.


----------



## Skibumef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_forgive me if this is too elementary a question, or if it's been covered before, but does the included optical cable work with the optical out on an iMac?_

 

I am pretty sure that your iMac, like most other Macs, has an optical mini-jack. The Mac mini jack works for both 1/8" headphone plugs and Optical mini-toslink plugs. The cable provided with the Compass is a normal optical cable, so you will need an adapter such as this one: Monoprice


----------



## haloxt

Or you can buy a toslink regular optical to mini optical adapter, that way you can keep using the cool pink cable from audio-gd.


----------



## Skibumef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or you can buy a toslink regular optical to mini optical adapter, that way you can keep using the cool pink cable from audio-gd._

 

This is also correct. For example, here's an adapter from Blue Jeans cables (towards bottom of page): Adapters from Blue Jeans Cable


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Doesn't he need the TAS1020B with Centrance firmware instead? The license will probably be too expensive for Compass, so this is more for his reference line dacs._

 

It will be nice if the DAC19MK3 has that capability since it's poised at the starting point of his top-tier DACs.


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It will be nice if the DAC19MK3 has that capability since it's poised at the starting point of his top-tier DACs._

 

Yeah, DAC19MK3 with TAS1020B usb implementation would be awesome. Even at +$500 premium.


----------



## Currawong

If you're after a Toslink, or mini to Toslink cable, try Lifatec. Mini to Toslink cables are here. I seriously don't like those adaptors. Yes it may be more expensive than Monoprice for the mini to Toslink, but in my experience with lower-end gear makes a difference.


----------



## squall343

i am wondering will 24/96 usb make a big difference if all my music files are in 16/44.1


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am wondering will 24/96 usb make a big difference if all my music files are in 16/44.1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No, it won't.


----------



## Skibumef

As far as Mini Toslink goes, any links I gave were purely for an example of what the plug is and looks like. Obviously there are much higher quality options.

 I emailed Cherry because I was worried that I had not received my tracking number even though I was on the 4/8 shipment. Despite there being three Evans on the 4/8 list, it turns out that none of them are me.


----------



## Krackatus

I'm looking at the Audio-gd Compass, but to be honest, for $300 it looks a bit too good to be true. Has anyone heard a Compass with an Ultrasone PRO900? Does it bring out most of what the PRO900 has to offer? Or does it not even come close to showing what the 900s are capable of?

 Also, those that have heard the Compass (with or without a PRO900), what does it do for the sound? I've read it's quite neutral sounding. Does this mean that the sound signature of whatever phones you're using won't change much? What impact will the Compass actually have on the sound (over a laptop output)?

 I would very much appreciate any help or opinions on this.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Krackatus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm looking at the Audio-gd Compass, but to be honest, for $300 it looks a bit too good to be true. Has anyone heard a Compass with an Ultrasone PRO900? Does it bring out most of what the PRO900 has to offer? Or does it not even come close to showing what the 900s are capable of?

 Also, those that have heard the Compass (with or without a PRO900), what does it do for the sound? I've read it's quite neutral sounding. Does this mean that the sound signature of whatever phones you're using won't change much? What impact will the Compass actually have on the sound (over a laptop output)?

 I would very much appreciate any help or opinions on this._

 


 I should be getting my Compass early this week as it shipped last Thursday. I have a Pro900 (my favorite headphone to date) and can post my impressions. At the very least, I will be able to report back if the Compass is as good or better than my current rig (OMZ 4.0 DAC + Meier HA2-MKII SE Amp).


----------



## Krackatus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I should be getting my Compass early this week as it shipped last Thursday. I have a Pro900 (my favorite headphone to date) and can post my impressions. At the very least, I will be able to report back if the Compass is as good or better than my current rig (OMZ 4.0 DAC + Meier HA2-MKII SE Amp)._

 

Thanks, would appreciate that.


----------



## Currawong

Krackatus: The Compass is initially being sold at cost, ie: with no profit, as a promotion, so I don't blame you for thinking it's too good to be true. Check the FAQ (linked in my signature) for a list of comparisons/reviews/impressions. Every time I find any (in this thread mostly) I add them to the list.


----------



## edselfordfong

haloxt and skibumef, I tried to post a thanks message hours ago, not sure what happened. Anyway, thanks for the help. It's not my iMac, it's my dads, hence my ignorance.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, it won't._

 

Thanks

 I just order the DAC-19 Mk 3

 but according to them it will only be able to ship by early may

 due to the huge backlog.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks

 I just order the DAC-19 Mk 3

 but according to them it will only be able to ship by early may

 due to the huge backlog._

 

Yeah, you people, stop ordering Compasses already!


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, you people, stop ordering Compasses already! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

and they just shipped 41 compass just yesterday alone


----------



## ExtraNice

Hopefully more today!


----------



## Hot Pixel

Has anybody received their tracking number yet that got their compass shipped on the 12th?


----------



## TzeYang

The compass is really that good to be true.

 The innards consists of discrete regulators, discrete amplifier with folded cascode topology, a good quality DAC, and many good quality parts like dale resistors, low noise toshiba transistors and many more.


----------



## ExtraNice

Quote:


 Has anybody received their tracking number yet that got their compass shipped on the 12th? 
 

The guys on the previous shipment apparently waited 2-3 days before they got theirs.


----------



## lahtis

Does Compass have fuse somewhere or is it without?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lahtis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does Compass have fuse somewhere or is it without?_

 

Yes it does, but it is specially built inside the power transformer and also keeps a check on the temperature along with current fluctuations, Kingwa says it improves the SQ, the only downside if your fuse blows up, you will have the send the entire unit for replacement, the good news is that something like this has never happened the last 4-5 years he has been using this technology.
 Hope this helps..


----------



## lahtis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes it does, but it is specially built inside the power transformer and also keeps a check on the temperature along with current fluctuations, Kingwa says it improves the SQ, the only downside if your fuse blows up, you will have the send the entire unit for replacement, the good news is that something like this has never happened the last 4-5 years he has been using this technology.
 Hope this helps..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks and yes it does i was just curious since couldn't seen fuse anywhere


----------



## K3cT

Kingwa always stresses to me that the amp section in Compass exceeds its DAC one though.


----------



## Skin

Forgive me i didnt bother reading through this giant thread but has anyone compared the Compass as a dac to the mhdt Havana or Paradisea? Or anyone planning to? Been looking at the Havana myself and wondering how this stacks up.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Forgive me i didnt bother reading through this giant thread but has anyone compared the Compass as a dac to the mhdt Havana or Paradisea? Or anyone planning to? Been looking at the Havana myself and wondering how this stacks up._

 

This forum is full of useful tools, such as the "Search this thread" function in the upper right corner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But to answer your question, as far as I know nobody has made such a comparison and I don't recall anyone planning to either. However, pricewise I would say that a comparison between those DACs and the DAC-19SE would make more sense. (And still it's comparing tube to SS.)


----------



## driftingbunnies

woot! out for delivery. Is anybody else expecting it today?


----------



## braindrift

i just got mine. be forewarned all of the corners on my compass were completely scuffed. shipping was inadequate, compass was in 2 foam protectors and plastic dhl bag. 

 how do i set up the compass usb dac?
 i have speakers connected to dac out.
 no sound.
 help please. i have already searched for setting up usb dacs.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just got mine. be forewarned all of the corners on my compass were completely scuffed. shipping was inadequate, compass was in 2 foam protectors and plastic dhl bag. 

 how do i set up the compass usb dac?
 i have speakers connected to dac out.
 no sound.
 help please. i have already searched for setting up usb dacs._

 

That is really sad, I think the customs really messed with your Compass, and honestly, if it came in two foam protectors and plastic DHL bag then you should not have accepted the package, because as far as I know Kingwa packs them up very securely in a box with foam on all four sides..

 When I got my Compass I just connected it to the PC and it detected the Compass on its own, if you are using DAC out to your speakers, check if they are active speakers, meaning they have an amplifier inside, secondly make sure the Super switch is activated when you are using DAC out.. let us know if it still doesn't work..


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_woot! out for delivery. Is anybody else expecting it today?_

 

I'm getting mine today. Although I will probably be out when they try to deliver (Dr. Appt.) so I won't see it until tomorrow. I've heard horror stories about DHL shipping (even worse than United Parcel Smashers) so I'm worried about what it will look like when it does get here.


----------



## braindrift

i have audioengine a5s amp is built in.
 super is flush, pc set usb dac as default device.
 no sound.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have audioengine a5s amp is built in.
 super is flush, pc set usb dac as default device.
 no sound._

 

Since your DAC went through such a Hell, can you open the Compass and see if the OPAMP (EARTH HDAM) is in place??. well I am sure more will join to help you out..

 Also check if any wires/connectors have snapped off, can happen if it has been badly mishandled..


----------



## braindrift

OPAMP was slightly jilted, now it is in firmly, also removed foam.
 still no sound.
 thanks for the help.


----------



## ScottieB

So for the first time this weekend. I was using my Compass as a DAC only feeding my Little Dot... is it just me or is the DAC line out a lower level than the Zero? I don't have my Zero in a state to test, but I don't recall having to turn up my LD volume so high with the Zero feeding it. Not a problem as I don't have to turn it all the way up or anything, but was just curious. Thanks.


----------



## ecclesand

Have you tried your A5s thru the preamp out of the Compass? Also, have you tried other inputs (optical, coax) or is USB it for you? Also, what player are you using on your computer?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OPAMP was slightly jilted, now it is in firmly, also removed foam.
 still no sound.
 thanks for the help._

 

Well, in that case, two things come to my mind.. either the Compass has been damaged or its got to do something with the USB setup which I am not really good at.. maybe someone more knowledgeable can be of some help.. anyway, i hope its a setup problem and you get your Compass up and running soon..
 Btw, does your headphones through Compass work??.. In the meantime if you have a CD/DVD player try hooking on to Compass and see if it works, in that way you will be sure if its the Compass or the PC settings which is the problem..


----------



## squall343

maybe u can try whether the headphone out have any sound?

 also take note that for some music player such as foobar, u need to change the output preference and point it to the usb dac


----------



## braindrift

from preamp no sound, usb is it, foobar - already set usb dac as output device


----------



## Baird GoW

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dBs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glue or no glue, it sounds great =D Smoooooooooth. This will be a long burn in process. After breaking in the Compass+Earth, Ill give a round through of the various jumper settings. Then Ill begin breaking in the Moon because I really want to give the Moon+bright setting a try. The idea of the Moon possibly canceling the sharpness of the bright setting while maintaining its touted soundstage._

 

Shouldn't that just be like trying to replicate the sound signature of having it on neutral neutral with the earth? JW


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_from preamp no sound, usb is it, foobar - already set usb dac as output device_

 

any sound using the headphone out?


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just got mine. be forewarned all of the corners on my compass were completely scuffed. shipping was inadequate, compass was in 2 foam protectors and plastic dhl bag. 

 how do i set up the compass usb dac?
 i have speakers connected to dac out.
 no sound.
 help please. i have already searched for setting up usb dacs._

 

Did I read this right? The Compass was not in a box, but in a plastic bag with 2 foam protectors? Or was the box in a plastic bag and the Compass was in the box with the 2 foam protectors?


----------



## braindrift

no headphone yet...


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_from preamp no sound, usb is it, foobar - already set usb dac as output device_

 

I hate to ask this, but you did make sure to flip the preamp switch on, right?


----------



## braindrift

The Compass was not in a box, but in a plastic bag with 2 foam protectors


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Compass was not in a box, but in a plastic bag with 2 foam protectors_

 

this is pretty bad..

 I am hoping it is the custom which did this instead of audio gd


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Compass was not in a box, but in a plastic bag with 2 foam protectors_

 

Aw...man, that sucks. I'm sorry for you. I would email Audio GD and explain the situation and go from there. Good luck...


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this is pretty bad..

 I am hoping it is the custom which did this instead of audio gd_

 

Your not seriously considering the option that Audio-gd shipped it in a plastic bag, do you?? No this was most probably DHL's doing, or perhaps customs.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your not seriously considering the option that Audio-gd shipped it in a plastic bag, do you?? No this was most probably DHL's doing, or perhaps customs._

 

hopefully not since just ordered 1 headphone amp and dac from them


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your not seriously considering the option that Audio-gd shipped it in a plastic bag, do you?? No this was most probably DHL's doing, or perhaps customs._

 


 I agree with DRO, In fact Audio GD delayed the 30 (V2) shipping because he bought studier foams and boxes for shipping Compass.. I am quite sure its DHL or Customs.. whatever it is, it is unfortunate.


----------



## haloxt

You should complain to DHL immediately, how could they be so careless as to lose the box or damage it so bad that it was preferable to stick it in a plastic bag instead? I'd sooner throw the bagged compass at the DHL guy's face than sign for it. This is how it should've looked btw.


----------



## braindrift

the preamp switch does not move completely to on position, more like to the center between on and off. I think the switch might have broken off, is it the same size as the H/L gain switch, or is it recessed in the hole.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should complain to DHL immediately, how could they be so careless as to lose the box or damage it so bad that it was preferable to stick it in a plastic bag instead? I'd sooner throw the bagged compass at the DHL guy's face than sign for it. This is how it should've looked btw._

 

Well thats the way it should have been delivered, and honestly in the condition described, I wouldn't have accepted the package .. I agree with haloxt, maybe you should complain to DHL about it..


----------



## braindrift

found the nub of the preamp switch which broke off during shipping, got preamp switch onto on position fully. still no sound though.


----------



## ecclesand

Let Audio GD know what happened. They may have to initiate the claim with DHL as the shipper. And whatever you do, don't throw out that plastic DHL bag.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_found the nub of the preamp switch which broke off during shipping, got preamp switch onto on position fully. still no sound though._

 

Do you have a CD/DVD player? if yes, try connecting to the Compass through Coax or optical and see if it works through headphones..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_found the nub of the preamp switch which broke off during shipping, got preamp switch onto on position fully. still no sound though._

 

If the preamp switch was broken off, then the switch itself might have been damaged too. (And who knows what other internal damage may have occurred.) If your a confident DIY'er you might try replacing it with a new switch, but I think actually the only thing to do in your position is to complain to DHL and to make arrangements with Audio-gd to ship back the Compass in return for an undamaged one.


----------



## Baird GoW

What!!!!! It came to you in a bag!!!!??? LOL LOL!!! LMAO literally I can just imagine the confused look on any ones face being handed a bag with $350 worth of electronics that came from China. Had it been me I probably would have bent over tilted my head with a really confused face, kicked the guy in the nuts (because he works for a company who would dare try to hand me $350 in a bag) slam the door in his face hopefully hitting him since hes bent over (assuming it is a he) and contact Kingwa and DHL immediately.


----------



## braindrift

every time i move the preamp switch, 5-6 loud rapid clicks would come from the power supply.
 i think my unit is messed up, and will contact audio-gd for a replacement.

 thanks for your help.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the preamp switch was broken off, then the switch itself might have been damaged too. (And who knows what other internal damage may have occurred.) If your a confident DIY'er you might try replacing it with a new switch, but I think actually the only thing to do in your position is to complain to DHL and to make arrangements with Audio-gd to ship back the Compass in return for an undamaged one._

 

Agreed....braindrift take pics of everything it came in and send them on to Kingwa. 

 Any of you with units on the way, if any unit shows up in a DHL bag or badly mangled box, it's either been tampered with by Customs or has sustained major handling damage (or both). Refuse the shipment and contact Audio-gd immediately and explain the reason why you refused the shipment. If you have a camera on hand at the time of delivery ask the driver to let you document the damage with a pic before he takes it back. 

 Unfortunately shipping/handling damage happens (who is to blame doesn't matter all that much...it's DHL or EMS's problem and doing) at random times.I've had stuff show up looking like the box hasn't been hardly touched while other times the box and it contents are nearly destroyed. I'm not talking about Audio-gd or DHL for me (EMS either). I was referring to UPS/Fed Ex and Can Post/USPS experiences I've had over the years. So far none of my HK/China orders have shown up with major damage as of yet although I probably just jinxed myself.

 The moral of this story is don't accept a shipment that has major damage or the box missing ......take a pic if you can and contact Kingwa/Cherry immediately via email (with that pic attached to the message if you managed to snap a photo). 

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_every time i move the preamp switch, 5-6 loud rapid clicks would come from the power supply.
 i think my unit is messed up, and will contact audio-gd for a replacement.

 thanks for your help._

 

I think that is the best decision under the circumstances, and send some pictures of the package and damaged Compass too, so maybe he can also go ahead with the claim.. in any case he would be in the best position to advise you.. Sorry about it..


----------



## ecclesand

I just got mine and it was packaged the same way. I'm starting to wonder now.... Am taking pics as I unpack it. I was going to refuse it but...


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got mine and it was packaged the same way. I'm starting to wonder now.... Am taking pics as I unpack it. I was going to refuse it but..._

 

this is bad

 twice in a row


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_every time i move the preamp switch, 5-6 loud rapid clicks would come from the power supply.
 i think my unit is messed up, and will contact audio-gd for a replacement.

 thanks for your help._

 

Yep it's having lock issues. Contact Kingwa and send him pics of the evidence (damage to Compass, shipping materials and how and what it showed up in etc).....you'll be looked after properly.

 Peete.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep it's having lock issues. Contact Kingwa and send him pics of the evidence (damage to Compass, shipping materials and how and what it showed up in etc).....you'll be looked after properly.

 Peete._

 

Yep...mine doesn't work either. The damage is evident all over the unit. I should have just refused it. The volume know and selector knob in the front are completely bent so that when you turn either it rubs against the housing. There are dings in the aluminum housing on the side and front. I'll post pics later.

 Dammit...I knew I should have gone with EMS.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Forgive me i didnt bother reading through this giant thread but has anyone compared the Compass as a dac to the mhdt Havana or Paradisea? Or anyone planning to? Been looking at the Havana myself and wondering how this stacks up._

 

Those tube-buffer output equipped DACs look mighty interesting should I say.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got mine and it was packaged the same way. I'm starting to wonder now.... Am taking pics as I unpack it. I was going to refuse it but..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this is bad

 two in a row 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Once is bad, 3 in a row is a trend.....this IS disturbing. Email Kingwa...with pics guys....there has to be an explanation for this. 

 I have sent Kingwa/Audio-gd an email asking for info and details.

 Peete.


 PS Please document anything and everything guys !


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Once is bad, 3 in a row is a trend.....this IS disturbing. Email Kingwa...with pics guys....there has to be an explanation for this. 

 I have sent Kingwa/Audio-gd an email asking for info and details.

 Peete._

 

Yes Peete I agree this is becoming a trend, unfortunately its past 2am in China and Kingwa must be sleeping, so people might have to wait for another 6 hours for a reply..

 I am kind of wondering are all these packages US shipments ? does it Enter the US through one Airport??.. whatever..

 EDIT - In fact I think he is still awake if I go by the blinking eyes in Chinese Forum.. Not sure though..


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got mine and it was packaged the same way. I'm starting to wonder now.... Am taking pics as I unpack it. I was going to refuse it but..._

 

I am interested to see these pics. This is definitely not Kingwa's doing as mine was packaged very well and no damage was sustained. 

 How could customs or DHL take it out of a box where it was secured and put it in a friggin plastic bag? I would be furious.


----------



## Skin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dammit...I knew I should have gone with EMS.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep dont know what people are doing selecting DHL but they're notoriously bad.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am interested to see these pics. This is definitely not Kingwa's doing as mine was packaged very well and no damage was sustained. 

 How could customs or DHL take it out of a box where it was secured and put it in a friggin plastic bag? I would be furious._

 

I emailed Kingwa and filed a complaint with DHL. This sucks.


----------



## nauxolo

Sorry for everyone's misfortune, just wanted to chime in that mine arrived early in April in the foam/box with no problems. So whatever happened could not have been Audio-gd's fault.


----------



## audio-gd

I am very unease to see some customers got the damaged products.
 You can complain to the express and let they ship back the gears for repair.(must affirm for repair and the value less than USD50).
 If the express don't charge the shipping cost, you can pay and show me the bill, we will return the shipping cost to you. (But less than USD54 for USA, ).
 We will repair or replace new one shipping back to you free, don't worry the shipping cost, we will pay all shipping cost.
 Sorry for that.
 If have any problems, send me email, I must sleep now, it is AM3:00 here.


----------



## csroc

Wow it sounds like DHL is giving these some major abuse. I can't imagine that, if they're still being packed like my test Compass was it sure seems pretty secure.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audio-gd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am very unease to see some customers got the damaged products.
 You can complain to the express and let they ship back the gears for repair.(must affirm for repair and the value less than USD50).
 If the express don't charge the shipping cost, you can pay and show me the bill, we will return the shipping cost to you. (But less than USD54 for USA, ).
 We will repair or replace new one shipping back to you free, don't worry the shipping cost, we will pay all shipping cost.
 Sorry for that.
 If have any problems, send me email, I must sleep now, it is AM3:00 here._

 

Yes Kingwa, I think you need some sleep now.. I am sure things will get sorted out. Thanks for your great service as usual.

  Quote:


 Wow it sounds like DHL is giving these some major abuse. I can't imagine that, if they're still being packed like my test Compass was it sure seems pretty secure. 
 

Actually I have a feeling that theres some major problem here with an entire consignment of DHL getting damaged due to some reason, so I wont be surprised if there are more Compasses with the same problems which are going to be delivered in the US with this batch.. just a feeling though and I hope I am wrong..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Anyone recieveing a Compass in a bag without it's box refuse the shipment and inform Kingwa/Audio-gd immediately.

 DHL obviously had a major mishap with a bulk shipment (in part or whole). Take pics as this will help Kingwa and Audio-gd with their claims to DHL for compensation. I'm not sure how it works from his end of things but the fact is DHL is responsible for the damage and should not be trying to pass off this gear to unsuspecting customers.

 So again...if your unit shows up without a box in a plastic bag...refuse it, take a pic and inform Audio-gd immediately. Send the pic with the email (if you have taken one).

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow it sounds like DHL is giving these some major abuse. I can't imagine that, if they're still being packed like my test Compass was it sure seems pretty secure._

 

I think the later versions, after our prototypes, are even packaged slightly better. So something really disastrous must have happened between China and the US. What really amazes me (but perhaps it shouldn't) is how DHL is trying to pass these packages off as if nothing happened to them.
 I mean, for goodness sake, a plastic bag...??

 I too want to say I'm very sorry to hear this has happened to you people. I sure hope these will remain the only cases. I can barely imagine how you must be feeling right now.


----------



## csroc

I'm curious to see some of the bruised and battered Compasses, they're not exactly of light build. 

 You might be right sandchak, if so then there could be a lot of problems with the recent shipments. Wonder what is going on.


----------



## cyberidd

People have to remember when making their claims that the package is only worth $54 USD or so as that is what is on the package, or else DHL may be able to use claims over that to their advantage. I don't know this for sure, but would assume its the case. I hope that everyone else's packages come in better shape. I also want to thank Kingwa for his incredible customer service and for how accommodating he has been since square one. Really amazing job!!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_People have to remember when making their claims that the package is only worth $54 USD_

 

Actually If I read correctly, it should be declared as *"for repairs and below USD50"*, thats if you are shipping back the package to Kingwa, I think that is because anything above USD50, he will have to pay some duties.. and the USD54 is the maximum amount he will compensate (US customers) for shipping back to him, although he will pay the full shipping charges when he ships back a new or repaired Compass to the customer. 

  Quote:


 You might be right sandchak, if so then there could be a lot of problems with the recent shipments. 
 

If honestly I hope I am proven wrong and these are the only two cases, but if you see how things are developing, then I fear as Peete said too, it might be a major problem with a particular consignment.. and as far as I can count, there are 6 Compass shipments to the USA in the last batch..


----------



## cyberidd

I mean that if people make individual claims for damage to their $300 dollar amp when the claimed value was only $54 then DHL might be able to use that against the customer or Audio-gd, since it is illegally dodging taxes. This is only a problem if people make their own claims to DHL, not if they just send it back to Kingwa.


----------



## B0FF

autsch, sorry to hear you've received a damaged compass.
 not sure whether I'm able to sleep good tonight because my compass should arrive tomorrow.
 charging my cameras battery atm.


----------



## Eric M

This is how mine came:









 The USB/Coax/Opt select was bashed in, but I popped it out and lit ocks onto the right areas.

 A few nicks on the edges but otherwise fine. The blue power light turns on but I can't get sound out of it, but I'm still figuring out the driver setup.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mean that if people make individual claims for damage to their $300 dollar amp when the claimed value was only $54 then DHL might be able to use that against the customer or Audio-gd, since it is illegally dodging taxes. This is only a problem if people make their own claims to DHL, not if they just send it back to Kingwa._

 

Sorry Cyberidd, I think misread what you wrote earlier - In that case, yes you are very correct and hopefully no one will claim directly..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


 his is how mine came:
 The USB/Coax/Opt select was bashed in, but I popped it out and locks onto the right areas.

 A few nicks on the edges but otherwise fine. The blue power light turns on but I can't get sound out of it, but I'm still figuring out the driver setup 
 

Goodness Gracious Me !!.. this is really horrifying service by DHL, This is the third case in the US. Now I think I can say with some certainty that all 6 Compass to the US in this batch is going to be damaged..

 EDIT - I think I was counting the wrong shipment, the packages that are reaching today were posted before the last batch was shipped, in which case 17 Compass were shipped to the USA.. well I only hope its not going to be what I am thinking..


----------



## cyberidd

.


----------



## haloxt

You guys should know better than to accept packages without boxes, and we've posted pictures of how it ought to look.


----------



## Eric M

Got it working, the selector knob's alignment was off. I had it on USB but it was really Coax. Pushing it past the max of both sides lets you slide its center alignment. Also, with the volume nob, there are some areas were movement isn't smooth. There's like 4 tiny dents total, I don't really care.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eric M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is how mine came:









 The USB/Coax/Opt select was bashed in, but I popped it out and lit ocks onto the right areas.

 A few nicks on the edges but otherwise fine. The blue power light turns on but I can't get sound out of it, but I'm still figuring out the driver setup._

 

It was indeed mishandled, but I must say that the packing is *greatly lacking* also, a proper carton box packing with some foam (or other any other material to avoid movement inside the box) would be the way to ship an item of this size an weight.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was indeed mishandled, but I must say that the packing is *greatly lacking* also, a proper carton box packing with some foam (or other any other material to avoid movement inside the box) would be the way to ship an item of this size an weight._

 

Yes, but thats not the way its packed by Audio GD as far as I know, they are always boxed with foam protection, so this is the Job of DHL most probably.. I think haloxt already posted a picture of the actual packing of Compass.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was indeed mishandled, but I must say that the packing is *greatly lacking* also, a proper carton box packing with some foam (or other any other material to avoid movement inside the box) would be the way to ship an item of this size an weight._

 

It was perfectly sufficient. Check the pictures here it is totally different from the plastic bag pictures.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/aud...ml#post5591123


----------



## DaMnEd

I was only commenting on the actual package shown in the picture, without knowledge of who is the responsible person or company. If DHL did that.. well, it's their fault of course.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was only commenting on the actual package shown in the picture, without knowledge of who is the responsible person or company. If DHL did that.. well, it's their fault of course. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I know, its just that when such things happen, its not a good feeling - nothing personal..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, enough posts for the day and I hope people get their Compass intact and working..


----------



## Eric M

First impressions are not good. This my first time hearing anything better than a internal soundcard... and when volume matched I can't hear any difference. Only difference is that the Compass allows me play stuff A LOT louder. But even at louder volumes than my soundcard allows I find the sound a bit... brittle. Headphones are AKG K702s.

 Oh well, will keep comparing.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was indeed mishandled, but I must say that the packing is *greatly lacking* also, a proper carton box packing with some foam (or other any other material to avoid movement inside the box) would be the way to ship an item of this size an weight._

 

As mentioned the packaging in that post is not what Audio-gd uses at all. That looks like a real sloppy job on DHL's part to try to repackage it.


----------



## smeggy

Welcome to the realities of overhyped interwebs enthusiasm.


----------



## Aleatoris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the realities of overhyped interwebs enthusiasm._

 

you mean welcome to Planet Earth, am I right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I still haven't had a chance to listen to my Compass. It's sitting on my table collecting dust. Damn computer!


----------



## cegras

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eric M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First impressions are not good. This my first time hearing anything better than a internal soundcard... and when volume matched I can't hear any difference. Only difference is that the Compass allows me play stuff A LOT louder. But even at louder volumes than my soundcard allows I find the sound a bit... brittle. Headphones are AKG K702s.

 Oh well, will keep comparing._

 

Far from commenting on any sort of sonic differences, you can perhaps try to see if it electrically satisfies your headphones. I would listen and see if you can hear more impact, and better definition (tighter presentation).


----------



## ecclesand

The volume knob and selector knob were both bent so they rubbed against the housing on one side when you turned them. Oddly, all the hex screws on the top panel were loose...very loose. The unit powers up, but nothing works.


----------



## Rinshin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eric M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First impressions are not good. This my first time hearing anything better than a internal soundcard... and when volume matched I can't hear any difference. Only difference is that the Compass allows me play stuff A LOT louder. But even at louder volumes than my soundcard allows I find the sound a bit... brittle. Headphones are AKG K702s.

 Oh well, will keep comparing._

 

Give it some time to burn in. It may or may not help, but I remember when I got my first DAC I didn't hear much of a difference and it could have been that it wasn't burned in or it was just that my ears were not used to it yet. Either way, I hope it works out in time!


----------



## yepyep_

That is just horrible. Good job DHL.


----------



## Chu

I'm also in the batch that are arriving today. I got the following status:

  Code:


```
[left]Consignee premises closed. Will attempt again next business day.[/left]
```

Looks like I might be sort of lucky my mailroom was closed for the day when they attempted delivery. What should I instruct them to do tomorrow? Reject if it's a bag, or accept and deal with claims? Any idea what time DHL customer service closes? I'm wondering if I can intercept this before they even attempt to make the delivery.

 I'm also wondering how I can inform them about the other shipments without pointing them to this thread, the declared value issue might be a huge problem with initiating direct contact.


----------



## edselfordfong

$#*&#! My two just arrived a few minutes ago... and was in the same plastic DHL bag packaging as have been pictured here. I refused to sign for them, much to the surprise of the carrier. He said that had never happened before.

 So, it looks more and more like a general problem. To confirm, my two were on the April 8th shipment.

 Thanks for the heads up and advice everyone. I definitely would not have been thinking clearly enough to reject it.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$#*&#! My two just arrived a few minutes ago... and was in the same plastic DHL bag packaging as have been pictured here. I refused to sign for them, much to the surprise of the carrier. He said that had never happened before.

 So, it looks more and more like a general problem. To confirm, my two were on the April 8th shipment.

 Thanks for the heads up and advice everyone. I definitely would not have been thinking clearly enough to reject it._

 

Sounds to me like Kingwa needs to use a different shipper to the US...this is a ******* joke! I'm trying to figure out the best way to return ship this effing beast. Probably USPS Express or Priority. What a mess! I shoulda listened to that little voice in the back of my head that said not to buy this from China but wait until a used one popped up.


----------



## Aleatoris

I cringed at every scratch and ding.


----------



## les_garten

Hi,
 Just had a guy contact me by PM, same deal.

 Tag'em and Bag'em

 .


----------



## ScottieB

Wow this is totally insane! Very sorry to all whose compasses are arriving FUBAR... Just want to chime in and say mine was well packed in a full box with lots of padding. These bags are BS!!! What happens if you refuse the package? Does it get returned? Do you have to state WHY it is refused?? I understand why you'd say not to sign for it, but wouldn't want to complicate things further...

 Anyway, sorry to repost this, but I think it got lost in the shuffle of all the bad packages (understandably) so I'm gonna repost my question.

 So for the first time this weekend. I was using my Compass as a DAC only feeding my Little Dot... is it just me or is the DAC line out a lower level than the Zero? I don't have my Zero in a state to test, but I don't recall having to turn up my LD volume so high with the Zero feeding it. Not a problem as I don't have to turn it all the way up or anything, but was just curious. Thanks.


----------



## jron

I just received my compass from DHL... in a ****ing bag! I've yet to open it but DHL almost accomplished that task for me. I can already see the dings on the casing without opening the bag due to the numerous rips / holes in the bag. I've been waiting a month for this package and I'm PISSED. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm taking pictures to document everything... what should I do? ARGGGGH! 

 edit: I was not home when the package was delivered. It was not signed for and was left wedged between my two doors.


----------



## ttnl

I think you guys should go with EMS next time. Maybe it takes longer, but less problem like this.


----------



## Yikes

I could imagine DHL damaging one and trying to get away with repacking it, I however cannot imagine them doing it multiple times from the same shipping batch. This makes me think that Kingwa ran out of boxes and tried to get away with an obviously inferior method of packaging.

 This bothers me on several levels, mostly because I am planning on purchasing a Phoenix from him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be following this thread with greater interest.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$#*&#! My two just arrived a few minutes ago... and was in the same plastic DHL bag packaging as have been pictured here. I refused to sign for them, much to the surprise of the carrier. He said that had never happened before.

 So, it looks more and more like a general problem. To confirm, my two were on the April 8th shipment.

 Thanks for the heads up and advice everyone. I definitely would not have been thinking clearly enough to reject it._

 


 Oh god...so both the Apr 5 & Apr 8 batches are messed up ? I am in the Apr 8th batch..looks like I have to be prepared to be at home to refuse the shipment! Right now my shipment status says 'Transit through DHL facility in LA'.

 Can someone explain what happens when we refuse to accept the package ? DHL will send it back to Kingwa and then what ? I guess we will have to wait for an answer from Kingwa regarding that.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds to me like Kingwa needs to use a different shipper to the US...this is a ******* joke! I'm trying to figure out the best way to return ship this effing beast. Probably USPS Express or Priority. What a mess! I shoulda listened to that little voice in the back of my head that said not to buy this from China but wait until a used one popped up._

 

Mine was in the same box with my REF1 DAC. It was all flawless, packed perfectly, powered up the Compass and it bests everything I've heard to date as far as small box COMBOs are concerned. It slays my Halo XT SC. No comparison.

 My box had not been disturbed. That packing job was some kind of Kingwa Chinese Puzzle. No way I can get it back like it was. That tells me it was not opened. 

 My suggestion, call DHL, they should have some type of record that they opened these.

 The question that "needs to be put to bed" is, did these ship from the Factory this way. I don't believe that, but if I had a "Bag Full of DAC" in my hands, I would be asking some questions to determine what idiot did this. I also wouldn't assume anything.

 Pretty bloody disgusting, and It's a BuzzKill for everybody.

 .


----------



## Chu

Any way to tell for sure at this point if Customs did this, or if they were shipped this way?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any way to tell for sure at this point if Customs did this, or if they were shipped this way?_

 

The Guy who PM'd me, his C2C came the same way...


 .


----------



## driftingbunnies

So i just called DHL because they attempted but i wasn't there. They said if i refuse the order, they'll just send it to the sender. So i guess it's better to just give it back to kingwa if it's damaged.


----------



## ttnl

although I don't have any proof, but any business in the right state of mind won't ship fragile products in such a careless, irresponsible way. Just wait for Kingwa's response.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine was in the same box with my REF1 DAC. It was all flawless, packed perfectly, powered up the Compass and it bests everything I've heard to date as far as small box COMBOs are concerned. It slays my Halo XT SC. No comparison.

 My box had not been disturbed. That packing job was some kind of Kingwa Chinese Puzzle. No way I can get it back like it was. That tells me it was not opened. 

 My suggestion, call DHL, they should have some type of record that they opened these.

 The question that "needs to be put to bed" is, did these ship from the Factory this way. I don't believe that, but if I had a "Bag Full of DAC" in my hands, I would be asking some questions to determine what idiot did this. I also wouldn't assume anything.

 Pretty bloody disgusting, and It's a BuzzKill for everybody.

 ._

 

Well...if it wasn't DHL, then it was Audio GD that did the bogus packing. I'm really starting to wonder. Based on the pictures I've seen, all of them were packaged the SAME way. If all International DHL shipments come in to one place in the US, then I can see how this happened and it might by DHL's fault. If not, then what is the likelihood that different DHL service centers packed these in the same manner?

 I had someone from DHL call me back earlier today but I wasn't home. I'm assuming it was to get more information from me about my damaged shipment. I'll ask where International shipments are received into the US.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any way to tell for sure at this point if Customs did this, or if they were shipped this way?_

 

Call DHL. I'll bet they make a record of all Openings. I would if I were them.

 .


----------



## edselfordfong

God, this sucks. What a let down. I was all pumped up to get my compass, and then when I heard the knock, I immediately saw the packaging and knew that I had to reject it. I could only paw the compass through a plastic bag and then send it away again.

 I momentarily considered accepting it, because if it happened not to be damaged, that would spare everyone a big hassle. And if DHL ships it back this way, it'll definitely be damaged. They wouldn't let me open it and inspect for damage before signing. Senseless, but this way I avoid the problem that ecclesand has right now.


----------



## jron

dupe post


----------



## jron

My tracking information (might help determine blame):

 4/13/2009
 10:55 am Shipment delivered. Strongsville, OH 
 10:10 am With delivery courier. Strongsville, OH
 8:10 am In transit. Strongsville, OH
 8:09 am Arrived at DHL facility. Strongsville, OH

 4/12/2009
 5:29 pm Depart Facility Wilmington, OH
 1:18 pm In transit. Wilmington, OH
 12:45 pm Processed at DHL Location. Wilmington, OH
 11:05 am Transit through DHL facility Wilmington, OH
 4:08 am Depart Facility Hong Kong - Hub, Hong Kong
 3:57 am Processed at DHL Location. Hong Kong - Hub, Hong Kong

 4/11/2009
 6:11 am Processed at DHL Location. Hong Kong - Hub, Hong Kong
 6:01 am Transit through DHL facility Hong Kong - Hub, Hong Kong
 4:55 am Depart Facility Hong Kong, Hong Kong
 3:24 am Processed at DHL Location. Hong Kong, Hong Kong
 2:16 am Departing origin. Hong Kong, Hong Kong

 4/10/2009
 10:50 pm Shipment picked up Hong Kong, Hong Kong


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttnl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_although I don't have any proof, but any business in the right state of mind won't ship fragile products in such a careless, irresponsible way. Just wait for Kingwa's response._

 

Oh I got a response from Kingwa. He told me to box it up and return ship it to him after marking it as a repair and the value as $50. He didn't give me an address or anything. Do I ship to the address on the website? He also mentioned he would pay for return shipping up to $54. Of course, he didn't specify how he plans to pay for return shipping. From his email, I get the impression that he will reimburse me. If so, how? Furthermore, the only way to keep the return shipping around that amount is via USPS Priority and that will take at least a week or longer to ship. At the earliest, I'm looking at another 3 week wait for a working Compass.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Scottie,

 The way the Zero uses the HDAM is different than the Compass DAC. The Zero uses the HDAM to amplify the signal while the Compass DAC uses it to buffer the analog out. I think that's the main difference.

 I could be wrong about that though.

 Peete.


----------



## Eric M

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cegras* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Far from commenting on any sort of sonic differences, you can perhaps try to see if it electrically satisfies your headphones. I would listen and see if you can hear more impact, and better definition (tighter presentation)._

 

 Yes, I hear those improvements, but only when I play at volumes louder than my soundcard was ever capable of (which is probably damaging my ears).


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh I got a response from Kingwa. He told me to box it up and return ship it to him after marking it as a repair and the value as $50. He didn't give me an address or anything. Do I ship to the address on the website? He also mentioned he would pay for return shipping up to $54. Of course, he didn't specify how he plans to pay for return shipping. From his email, I get the impression that he will reimburse me. If so, how? Furthermore, the only way to keep the return shipping around that amount is via USPS Priority and that will take at least a week or longer to ship. At the earliest, I'm looking at another 3 week wait for a working Compass.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Isn't there a 'From' address in the 'bag' in which you received it ?


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Isn't there a 'From' address in the 'bag' in which you received it ?_

 

Yeah...Topway Cargo Co Ltd in Hong Kong. I need confirmation from Kingwa if that is where I should return the Compass.


----------



## edselfordfong

Am I the only one (so far) to have rejected delivery?


----------



## jron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I the only one (so far) to have rejected delivery?_

 

I would have had I been home to reject it, they just left it at my door.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would have had I been home to reject it, they just left it at my door._

 

Is yours working after all ? I don't see you have mentioned about that ..sorry if I missed the post.


----------



## jron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is yours working after all ? I don't see you have mentioned about that ..sorry if I missed the post._

 

No, you didn't miss my post, the package is still sitting on my floor while my camera charges... based on how banged up the package is, I'm afraid to plug my cans into the thing and be out another 300$


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eric M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I hear those improvements, but only when I play at volumes louder than my soundcard was ever capable of (which is probably damaging my ears)._

 

It takes several hundred hours to fully settle. What you hear now isn't what you'll hear when it's finished burning in.

 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Scottie,

 The way the Zero uses the HDAM is different than the Compass DAC. The Zero uses the HDAM to amplify the signal while the Compass DAC uses it to buffer the analog out. I think that's the main difference.

 I could be wrong about that though.

 Peete._

 

Thanks for that Peete - right or wrong it makes sense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Gotta say though - the amp in this thing is pretty killer. I go back and forth but as of right now I'm liking it more than my MKIII. Has both a more full AND more detailed sound. Tubes is tubes, of course, and they have their charm, but I've been pleasantly surprised thus far!


----------



## haloxt

Any shipments in plastic bags should be rejected and of course audio-gd didn't put them in plastic bags.

 jron, did you give DHL permission to put the bag at your door without a signature? If not you should be pissed as hell and say you never received it and hide the compass and DHL will have to recompensate for not getting your signature when it is required for the package.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Yikes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could imagine DHL damaging one and trying to get away with repacking it, I however cannot imagine them doing it multiple times from the same shipping batch. This makes me think that Kingwa ran out of boxes and tried to get away with an obviously inferior method of packaging.

 This bothers me on several levels, mostly because I am planning on purchasing a Phoenix from him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll be following this thread with greater interest._

 

Based on everything I've seen from Kingwa so far I have the gut feeling that this isn't something he is at fault for... and also based on all experiences about DHL I know of I'd be more apt to expect they did something stupid with these.

 Either way I hope this gets resolved, this isn't good for anyone.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I the only one (so far) to have rejected delivery?_

 

Consider yourself lucky that you saw the warnings in time. I was not so lucky.

 My Compass and C2C were both shipped in separate bags. They both have several dents and deep scratches, loose panels, knobs knocked off, the 2 extra OPA's are smashed/destroyed. This gear has been so abused, I'm not going to bother with or risk powering it up. 

 The shipping was very fast and there is no customs information(or delays) indicated on the DHL tracking page. There were no signs of the bag or packing material being previously opened or inspected. The shipping bills are affixed to the bags with no signs of tampering. I contacted DHL and sent an email to Kingwa, I have full confidence that he will make things right.


----------



## les_garten

My suggestion, talk to Kingwa and see if he can do call tags on his DHL acct for all the return shipping.

 If mine had showed up like this, I would be asking DHL if they did this. They have to have a record of this.


 .


----------



## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My tracking information (might help determine blame):
 ..._

 

Mine is the same up to the departure from Wilmington, OH; which is not surprising. Curious if anyone's came in via a different hub.

  Quote:


 I contacted DHL and sent an email to Kingwa, I have full confidence that he will make things right. 
 

I hate to sound negative, but if these truly are being sold near cost, then I don't know if he can afford to make things right; doubly so if DHL is only liable for declared value + shipping.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is the same up to the departure from Wilmington, OH; which is not surprising. Curious if anyone's came in via a different hub.



 I hate to sound negative, but if these truly are being sold near cost, then I don't know if he can afford to make things right; doubly so if DHL is only liable for declared value + shipping._

 

I am in AZ and mine is coming through LA. edselfordfong who seems to be in LA got a 'bagged' compass. So I am expecting the worst...

 Thats exactly what I am thinking...there is going to be lot of rejections, assuming many in the current batches are following this thread. I don't how Kingwa is going to cope up with this.


----------



## wdoerr

DHL dropped something. Like a fork lift dropping a whole pallet of compasses in Nowhere, Ohio. What I don't understand is what happened the the cardboard boxes? Dropping them would not have destroyed the boxes. Maybe some machine tried to eat them, one after another.


----------



## chesebert

Kingwa better not pull a 'Storm Digital'....gosh..was that a nightmare


----------



## haloxt

Can you guys stop with the stupid speculations that audio-gd is responsible for the plastic bags? It's insulting especially since these compasses are sold at a big discount and they've already said they'll cover all the shipping charges.

 If you look at the damage on the compasses, you'd think you'd also see it on the plastic bags if audio-gd was the people who packaged it that way right? durr...


----------



## Chu

Just got off the phone with DHL.

 They say that in their system they have no way to tell if it was searched by customs via their internal tracking systems. If such a thing did happen though -- there would be record of it via another "sticker" on the box separate from the waybill. 

 They strongly hinted that it wasn't unheard of for customs to repackage items, but they would not put it in those words.. They were being extremely defensive in general, refusing to comment on who is liable for the damage if it is a result of customs.

 I asked them to hold the package and not make a 2nd delivery attempt until I could get in contact with the seller, and they did oblige. It would probably be a good idea for anyone else in the same situation to do the same until we receive official word from Audio-gd about what happened.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DHL dropped something. Like a fork lift dropping a whole pallet of compasses in Nowhere, Ohio. What I don't understand is what happened the the cardboard boxes? Dropping them would not have destroyed the boxes. Maybe some machine tried to eat them, one after another._

 

They may have been crushed pretty badly to the point where every single one of them would be rejected at the delivery destination. I bet some idiot decided to try and salvage a big loss by passing this damage off onto to the poor customers by re bagging the contents thinking this would make things acceptable looking.

 I bet the bulk shipment was dropped like this or had something heavy dropped on it. I think the latter is more likely closer to the truth. In any event DHL should have notified Audio-gd of the mishap and shipped the units back to them for inspection. That would have been the responsible thing to do.

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you guys stop with the stupid speculations that audio-gd is responsible for the plastic bags? It's insulting especially since these compasses are sold at a big discount and they've already said they'll cover all the shipping charges.

 If you look at the damage on the compasses, you'd think you'd also see it on the plastic bags if audio-gd was the people who packaged it that way right? durr..._

 

Actually these plastic bags do have rips on them.

 Here's one for ya.

 Wrap up a Compass for me like the ones shown here. I have a Mallet and dead blow hammer. Let me at 'em, I'm betting I can ding them up with out disturbing or ripping the outside.

 That is the type of rough and tumble that happens in shipping. A million mallets coming at your package.

 .


----------



## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DHL dropped something. Like a fork lift dropping a whole pallet of compasses in Nowhere, Ohio. What I don't understand is what happened the the cardboard boxes? Dropping them would not have destroyed the boxes. Maybe some machine tried to eat them, one after another._

 

Did DHL tell you this? They were pretty adamant they had no record of anything incidental on my end.

 It would also have to be on the Hong Kong side, since some packages came in via LA with the same packaging.


----------



## j2kei

oh this is so disappointing. i was waiting for more impressions as i was ready to order a compass next month (need to save up more). good luck to all you guys with this incident, i hope this all gets put right


----------



## joewatch

Reminds me of this incident BMW Cargo wreck

 Anyone who gets their Compass in a bag should refuse delivery. It needs to be in a box!

 Should we ask to have it sent EMS instead of DHL to the US? It will take longer, but maybe the service is better. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/shi...ms-dhl-412164/


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *j2kei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh this is so disappointing. i was waiting for more impressions as i was ready to order a compass next month (need to save up more). good luck to all you guys with this incident, i hope this all gets put right_

 


 Well to help you out here, mine sounds spectacular. The speed and impact are amazing. Mine came in the box with my REF1, and the Compass was Flawless and the sound awesome.

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

You got your RE1 and Compass Les ? That's good.

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

I'm 100% sure this dodgy packing is more DHL bullcrap. More, because they are known for gross screw-ups like this.


----------



## ecclesand

Well...I've got my Compass all packed up and ready to return. Still haven't heard back from Kingwa about where to send this thing. It's just 8:30am there now, so I imagine he's dealing with a huge sh_tstorm with all these busted Compasses.

 Per the website, this thing weighs 5.2kg which means that's around 11.5 lbs. It's not going to be cheap to return it via USPS....around $60USD. I checked DHL and they want $160 to ship it back to China.

 What a mess.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It may take him a while to get back to you guys since it may be too early in the morning there (4 or 5 AM)....the time difference doesn't help matters. Have patience guys.

 Peete.


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *j2kei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh this is so disappointing. i was waiting for more impressions as i was ready to order a compass next month (need to save up more). good luck to all you guys with this incident, i hope this all gets put right_

 

This was an accident. In no way should this effect your decision to purchase from Audio-gd. Accidents happen, but DHL should have sent them back to Audio-gd, unless it's that damn customs value that's on the shipping label. DHL and Audio-gd are insured, for this reason. The only problem might be that damn customs value, and if I'm not misunderstanding, Kingwa says they make good for all shipping and repair/replacement changes they may incur.


----------



## ecclesand

To those of you who need to return your Compass, I just got this email from Cherry about where to ship:

 Name : Qiu xian Zhong
 Address : No. 146-148, Daliang Electric Appliance Plaza, Shunde Distric, Foshan City, Guangdong Province China
 Post Code : 528300

 This is the same address on their website.


----------



## DiscHead

Mine was delivered in a bag today, I signed for it after having the driver record the package as damaged. The damage appears to be cosmetic as I hooked it up and it works (and sounds great), although who knows what may have happened to the Compass and in any case, the cosmetic damage is enough to send the unit back. I sent Kingwa an email with photos and given that Audio-gd's customer service has been nothing short of stellar I fully expect them to do the right thing.


----------



## ecclesand

This is on the Audio GD website now:

*Note:
 we shipping the Compass with a paper box parcel and foams , like the pix.
 We advice all customers while the express transfer the parcel to you, at first open the parcel and check if some things lose or shatter, if no problems, then accept the parcel.
 If any unit shows up in a DHL bag or badly mangled box, it's either been tampered with by Customs or has sustained major handling damage (or both). Refuse the shipment and contact us immediately and explain the reason why you refused the shipment. If you have a camera on hand at the time of delivery ask the driver to let you document the damage with a pix before he takes it back. *


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To those of you who need to return your Compass, I just got this email from Cherry about where to ship:

 Name : Qiu xian Zhong
 Address : No. 146-148, Daliang Electric Appliance Plaza, Shunde Distric, Foshan City, Guangdong Province China
 Post Code : 528300

 This is the same address on their website._

 

So, am I the only one who googled this?


----------



## edselfordfong

just heard from Cherry a minute ago. She said: "We are discussing and thinking the solve methods,please give us a few time."

 Lousy way for them to start the day.


----------



## Skin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joewatch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reminds me of this incident BMW Cargo wreck

 Anyone who gets their Compass in a bag should refuse delivery. It needs to be in a box!

 Should we ask to have it sent EMS instead of DHL to the US? It will take longer, but maybe the service is better. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/shi...ms-dhl-412164/_

 

In my experience EMS has been quite reliable and very quick. Usually takes no more than a week as long as it doesnt get held up at customs. The only thing is delivery could, in appearance, be by some random person rather than your normal uniformed courier. If you arent home they leave a USPS claim slip for it and will drop it off at your local post office.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm 100% sure this dodgy packing is more DHL bullcrap. More, because they are known for gross screw-ups like this._

 

I wonder if it isnt someone on China's end of the branch getting the bright idea to remove all the shipments from their boxes in favor for the bags and still collecting the full sum in order to turn a bigger profit. Wouldnt surprise me.

 Again do NOT ship via DHL. Ever. Anywhere. Anytime. I wouldnt even trust them to deliver a solid brick intact.


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is on the Audio GD website now:

*Note:
 we shipping the Compass with a paper box parcel and foams , like the pix.
 We advice all customers while the express transfer the parcel to you, at first open the parcel and check if some things lose or shatter, if no problems, then accept the parcel.
 If any unit shows up in a DHL bag or badly mangled box, it's either been tampered with by Customs or has sustained major handling damage (or both). Refuse the shipment and contact us immediately and explain the reason why you refused the shipment. If you have a camera on hand at the time of delivery ask the driver to let you document the damage with a pix before he takes it back. *_

 

Translation:

 We ship in cardboard boxes, like undamaged photos. If you get crap, which does not a include routine customs inspection, refuse shipment.

 Makes more sense than a frog would.


----------



## bobsmith

Now I am really worried. I have a REF1 inbound which DHL attempted delivery of today, but I wasn't there to sign. I am staying home tomorrow so that I can refuse delivery if it is in a bag. I shudder at the thought of what would happen to a $1390 DAC that weighs 15KG in a plastic bag...


----------



## squall343

I am assuming that all the damaged compass are those being shipped to US?

 am i right?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did DHL tell you this? They were pretty adamant they had no record of anything incidental on my end.

 It would also have to be on the Hong Kong side, since some packages came in via LA with the same packaging._

 

DHL, like most of the big shippers, also have a habit of avoiding responsibility as much as possible even when it is their screwup. Kingwa and Audio-gd so far seem to have a pretty much spotless record as far as I've seen.

 No way to tell yet but I highly doubt Kingwa would have shipped these in those bags, somebody somewhere had to have repackaged them.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just heard from Cherry a minute ago. She said: "We are discussing and thinking the solve methods,please give us a few time."

 Lousy way for them to start the day._

 

I got that email too. I sure hope they go after DHL for reimbursement once fault has been assigned.

 At least I still have my OMZ and HA-2 to comfort me.


----------



## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Again do NOT ship via DHL. Ever. Anywhere. Anytime. I wouldnt even trust them to deliver a solid brick intact._

 

Sort of related, someone ran a project, seeing what they could ship via the USPS and what actually arrived. Their results trying to ship a brick:

  Quote:


 Wrapped brick. Wrapped in brown paper; posted in street corner box with same amount of postage as was strapped to unwrapped brick. Extreme weight for size made package seem suspicious. Notice of attempted delivery received, 16 days. Upon pickup at station, our mailing specialist received a plastic bag containing broken and pulverized remnants of brick. Inside was a small piece of paper with a number code on it. Our research indicates that this was some type of US Drug Enforcement Agency release slip. The clerk made our mailing specialist sign a form for receipt. 
 

Rest of the site : link.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My tracking information (might help determine blame):

 4/13/2009
 10:55 am Shipment delivered. Strongsville, OH 
 10:10 am With delivery courier. Strongsville, OH
 8:10 am In transit. Strongsville, OH
 8:09 am Arrived at DHL facility. Strongsville, OH

 4/12/2009
 5:29 pm Depart Facility Wilmington, OH
 1:18 pm In transit. Wilmington, OH
 12:45 pm Processed at DHL Location. Wilmington, OH
 11:05 am Transit through DHL facility Wilmington, OH
 4:08 am Depart Facility Hong Kong - Hub, Hong Kong
 3:57 am Processed at DHL Location. Hong Kong - Hub, Hong Kong

 4/11/2009
 6:11 am Processed at DHL Location. Hong Kong - Hub, Hong Kong
 6:01 am Transit through DHL facility Hong Kong - Hub, Hong Kong
 4:55 am Depart Facility Hong Kong, Hong Kong
 3:24 am Processed at DHL Location. Hong Kong, Hong Kong
 2:16 am Departing origin. Hong Kong, Hong Kong

 4/10/2009
 10:50 pm Shipment picked up Hong Kong, Hong Kong_

 

My tracking information for my REF1 is almost identical (except mine went to NC instead of Strongville, OH), so clearly it was part of the same shipment. I will find out tomorrow if it was rebagged the same way as yours...


----------



## Zanth

Crappy! I feel sorry for all you folks receiving bagged Compasses. The unit is large and heavy enough. Mine was packaged like the earlier shots, box, bag, lots of tape and foam inserts protecting everything. Essentially I could play football (pick your version) with the package and it would remain in tact. 

 Kudos to Kingwa for responding in this thread and to Cherry for answering emails. With Kingwa having answered about 7 hours ago in the thread and at 3 am his time, that means if he is up and working on this already, he didn't sleep much at all. I feel sorry for him. 

 I also wasn't aware that the unit was being sold at or near cost. I realized there was a promo discount but dang...what a bargain then for Head-fiers getting it early and what a crappy deal for Audio-gd for having to eat the costs on return shipping, parts repair and likely full replacements for some. Just awful. I really really hope someone can track down the point of error here. If it was a DHL mistake, forklift accident or whatever, that a mass repayment can be sent to Kingwa at some point. I've never had an issue with DHL. I received my Shanling straight from China via DHL in 2 days. I returned it to them for upgrades the same way and they returned it to me within a week safe and sound. The Compass came by DHL no problem and it seems for Canadians, Canadapost, EMS and DHL are our top contenders with UPS and FedEx being WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY down the list on safe delivery methods. 

 Fingers crossed for all those waiting on a delivery and again, my heart really does go out for those who were waiting with much anticipation. Great that Audio-gd is so quick to remedy the situation. Customer service is a BIG problem in this industry (by that I mean audio) and to find someone willing to fix the issues promptly really wins over the hearts of customers, particularly for repeat orders. 

 There is are many reasons why the big names in Audio have been around for a long time, but one of the main reasons is that they offer excellent customer service.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My tracking information for my REF1 is almost identical (except mine went to NC instead of Strongville, OH), so clearly it was part of the same shipment. I will find out tomorrow if it was rebagged the same way as yours..._

 

I don't think DHL have a bag big enough for the RE1 Bob.....I will be very surprised if your RE1 shows up packed in anything other than it's standard carton. I hope for your sake it arrives as it should.

 Do you have an amp coming with it ? 

 Peete.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is on the Audio GD website now:

*Note:
 we shipping the Compass with a paper box parcel and foams , like the pix.
 We advice all customers while the express transfer the parcel to you, at first open the parcel and check if some things lose or shatter, if no problems, then accept the parcel.
 If any unit shows up in a DHL bag or badly mangled box, it's either been tampered with by Customs or has sustained major handling damage (or both). Refuse the shipment and contact us immediately and explain the reason why you refused the shipment. If you have a camera on hand at the time of delivery ask the driver to let you document the damage with a pix before he takes it back. *_

 

Thats encouraging. I am not sure if DHL guy allow us to open and inspect before signing for it (if it came in a box that is)..don't see why they shouldn't, but remember reading someone saying they won't. Anyway I will try when it makes it to here.

 As of 5.35 p.m my status says 'clearance process complete in LA'.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think DHL have a bag big enough for the RE1 Bob.....I will be very surprised if your RE1 shows up packed in anything other than it's standard carton. I hope for your sake it arrives as it should.

 Do you have an amp coming with it ? _

 

No, just the DAC. Fingers crossed that you are right about them not putting the Ref1 in a bag.

 I wonder if all of this has something to do with the way that Kingwa marks it for customs purposes. I seem to recall that someone said that theirs was marked as generic "cabling" or somesuch. Maybe DHL as a cost cutting measure is repackaging things marked a certain way to save space. Just a theory (with no basis in fact)...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now I am really worried. I have a REF1 inbound which DHL attempted delivery of today, but I wasn't there to sign. I am staying home tomorrow so that I can refuse delivery if it is in a bag. I shudder at the thought of what would happen to a $1390 DAC that weighs 15KG in a plastic bag..._

 

Bob,
 Got my REF1 today and it wasn't in a bag!

 .


----------



## DiscHead

Here is a photo of my Compass with my name on the invoice in it's box that I just received from Cherry. I forgot to mention in my last post that my Sun and Moon OPA's didn't show up. What DHL?


----------



## Skin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats encouraging. I am not sure if DHL guy allow us to open and inspect before signing for it (if it came in a box that is)..don't see why they shouldn't, but remember reading someone saying they won't. Anyway I will try when it makes it to here.

 As of 5.35 p.m my status says 'clearance process complete in LA'._

 

it will probably depend on the courier whos actually making the delivery, maybe they wont care. But technically you are correct, if you open a package you cannot then refuse delivery.

 Personally though, even if they allowed you to open it and it wasnt all banged up, there could still be something broken or wrong internally, so the best play is simply to refuse delivery if it arrives bagged.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DiscHead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a photo of my Compass with my name on the invoice in it's box that I just received from Cherry. I forgot to mention in my last post that my Sun and Moon OPA's didn't show up. What DHL?_

 

She sent me pics too. I didn't see my Moon HDAM, but there was a separate small box that I didn't even bother opening up so I assumed it was in there. Per my last email from Cherry, they are still discussing the problem and what to do to resolve it.


----------



## Currawong

I wouldn't be surprised if customs saw the low value it was insured for and decided to treat the gear like crap.


----------



## gilency

Too bad....I was going to order my Compass tonight. I think I will wait until this mess clears......If is not audio-gd's fault I truly feel sorry for them. Whoever's fault it is, they are interfering with trade....just what the economy needs at this point. At any rate, no Compass order tonight....


----------



## dBs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DiscHead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a photo of my Compass with my name on the invoice in it's box that I just received from Cherry. I forgot to mention in my last post that my Sun and Moon OPA's didn't show up. What DHL?_

 

Yep, mine looked almost identical to that packing. I feel for everyone whos gotten very unlucky with shipping. I KNOW that Kingwa will do right by each and every one of you by the time that this whole situation is done.

 BTW, Ive finished my burning in phase with around 800 hours of burn in. After the Sun HDAM started showing the problem I knew I wouldnt be really listening to it again. Playing with the Earth+Bright now as I mentioned before. I really think that the bright setting favors HD650s and make the Earth or Moon sound excellent.

 Everyone whos had trouble, itll be worth it in the end.


----------



## Skin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't be surprised if customs saw the low value it was insured for and decided to treat the gear like crap._

 

that would be some fast and coordinated work for different customs agents to locate, remove, and repackage these at varying facilities while also having, on hand, DHL bags, and fresh label pouches. Totally worth risking your job for. In other words, i dont buy that for a second. 

 Im telling you someone at the origonal facility removed them from their boxes [if they were indeed in them to begin with] and repackaged them.


----------



## Starguard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Too bad....I was going to order my Compass tonight. I think I will wait until this mess clears......If is not audio-gd's fault I truly feel sorry for them. Whoever's fault it is, they are interfering with trade....just what the economy needs at this point. At any rate, no Compass order tonight...._

 

Woah, me too. I was literally about to send the paypal money tonight but something got screwed up with my card so I was going to clear things up in the morning.

 Guess I'll be waiting too.

 Are the customs jerks 'repackaging' post-inspection? 

 I really have a lot of faith in Audio-gd (and while I've never bought something from them) they seem to be so in touch with the community so I'm sure this will all be sorted out.


----------



## Skibumef

Sorry to those who have received theirs damaged, and also sorry to Audio-gd. I was just going to post earlier today about how I felt sort of guilty- starting with everyone bickering over typefaces, and then Audio-gd going ahead and selling the Compass initially at little to no profit for our benefit and we barrage them with all of these emails because we are so eager to receive our packages, and Kingwa and crew are up all hours (and weekends apparently), scrambling to get these out. And now this? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am sure that *Audio-gd is not responsible* for this mess. I see that they have posted in the thread, I'm sure they read this thread, so I just want to say directly to Audio-gd that I have been impressed with your service and the reviews of your product and I do not believe that you are responsible for the damaged shipments.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DiscHead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a photo of my Compass with my name on the invoice in it's box that I just received from Cherry. I forgot to mention in my last post that my Sun and Moon OPA's didn't show up. What DHL?_

 

Correct me ...never mind...dumb question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW folks this what the unit should come in (the box with foam insert with paperwork and accessories).

 Peete.


----------



## Skin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are the customs jerks 'repackaging' post-inspection?_

 

Customs doesnt do this. Firstly they dont throw away the origonal package material and second they dont unbox and check every item that comes in. More often then not stuff clears customs instantly without even being given a second glance. Looking at the tracking info of one of the posters who got theirs bagged that would seem to be the case with these. Customs isnt touching them. If they were you'd see a delay in the transit time citing as much. The fact that there is a trend going on should be clue enough that these left China this way.

 I havent seen Audio GD deny anything here either. Im not insinuating they did anything intentionally, certainly not since they'd know how sensitive these would be to damage packaged like that, but who knows. Maybe they sent someone out to package and ship the batch who didnt know any better and they ran out of boxes. Either that or there is a scumbag at the DHL facility they use. I'd wager on it.


----------



## jron

Update: Cherry just emailed me back with pictures of my order. It looks like they snap a picture of every order before it gets sent out. The picture shows my Compass and two OPAs along with a print out of my order which includes my name on the paper... in a BOX! Very smart of them. I was skeptical at first but this isn't Audio-GD's fault. Go easy on them! I hope they can stick it to DHL for all the damage; they don't deserve this.


----------



## Starguard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Customs doesnt do this. Firstly they dont throw away the origonal package material and second they dont unbox and check every item that comes in. More often then not stuff clears customs instantly without even being given a second glance. Looking at the tracking info of one of the posters who got theirs bagged that would seem to be the case with these. Customs isnt touching them. If they were you'd see a delay in the transit time citing as much. The fact that there is a trend going on should be clue enough that these left China this way.

 I havent seen Audio GD deny anything here either. Im not insinuating they did anything intentionally, certainly not since they'd know how sensitive these would be to damage packaged like that, but who knows. Maybe they sent someone out to package and ship the batch who didnt know any better and they ran out of boxes. Either that or there is a *scumbag at the DHL facility they use.* I'd wager on it._

 

Don't be so quick to assume conspiracy against Audio-gd... I'm going to guess it's on DHL's part.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Update: Cherry just emailed me back with pictures of my order. It looks like they snap a picture of every order before it gets sent out. The picture shows my Compass and two OPAs along with a print out of my order which includes my name on the paper... in a BOX! Very smart of them. I was skeptical at first but this isn't Audio-GD's fault. Go easy on them! I hope they can stick it to DHL for all the damage; they don't deserve this._

 



 Either way, I'll be purchasing a Compass tomorrow.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I havent seen Audio GD deny anything here either._

 

Yes, they did deny it. The Audio-gd website (http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/DAC-Compass.htm) says "we shipping the Compass with a paper box parcel and foams , like the pix" with pictures of the properly packed box. Seems to me they have pretty explicitly said that the packages left Audio-gd's care in properly packed boxes, not in bags.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Update: Cherry just emailed me back with pictures of my order. It looks like they snap a picture of every order before it gets sent out. The picture shows my Compass and two OPAs along with a print out of my order which includes my name on the paper... in a BOX! Very smart of them. I was skeptical at first but this isn't Audio-GD's fault. Go easy on them! I hope they can stick it to DHL for all the damage; they don't deserve this._

 

i am thinking if they underdeclare their stuff when going through shipping, they can't claim much either

 pretty sad for them


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that would be some fast and coordinated work for different customs agents to locate, remove, and repackage these at varying facilities while also having, on hand, DHL bags, and fresh label pouches. Totally worth risking your job for. In other words, i dont buy that for a second. 

 Im telling you someone at the origonal facility removed them from their boxes [if they were indeed in them to begin with] and repackaged them._

 

Now do you honestly believe that Audio-gd would ship a Compass in a DHL bag, then post up on their web site to refuse shipment if it comes in a DHL bag, then repay the people for the return shipping cost to send it back to them because it was damaged?

 By the way, I've worked in a warehouse and worked with couriers. I can totally believe this kind of crap happened at DHL.


----------



## Skin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now do you honestly believe that Audio-gd would ship a Compass in a DHL bag?_

 

read my posts, i havent said any such thing.


----------



## Zanth

jron: thanks for posting that info. VERY smart of Audio-gd to snap a pic of each order before it goes out. It takes no extra time at all, very little effort and a nice digital archive of each order is uber smart. I record me opening each package I receive no matter what it is. I also record me packaging up I send out. This way no one can claim something I didn't receive or that I didn't send out. Kudos again to Audio-gd and a great save for those who were thinking maybe it was Audio-gd's fault. It still sucks that Audio-gd has to eat the cost of damaged units and shipping


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well...if it wasn't DHL, then it was Audio GD that did the bogus packing. I'm really starting to wonder. Based on the pictures I've seen, all of them were packaged the SAME way. If all International DHL shipments come in to one place in the US, then I can see how this happened and it might by DHL's fault. If not, then what is the likelihood that different DHL service centers packed these in the same manner?

 I had someone from DHL call me back earlier today but I wasn't home. I'm assuming it was to get more information from me about my damaged shipment. I'll ask where International shipments are received into the US._

 

My guess is that all packages going into the States get checked in some way before leaving China or else they aren't allowed in the US. They probably all got smashed there before even leaving China, and therefore they would all be smashed despite having different homes within the US. This is just a guess, but I think its more likely than Audio-gd having done it from what we've seen so far.


----------



## ecclesand

Cherry just asked for pics of the DHL bag showing the tracking/waybill #. Still no word on what resolution they are working toward. Perhaps they are trying to get DHL to pick up all the damaged Compasses across the US and return them on DHL's dime. I guess that's the least DHL can do.

 I just want to get the damaged one returned asap so a new one can be shipped out. I want my Compass!


----------



## sandchak

Well I just wake up to see what I feared most has happened, it seems one entire Consignment of DHL was damaged, strangely the big package seems to be intact.

 I really feel bad for the folks who ended up with Compass in a lousy DHL bag, and not securely packed boxes as Audio GD always ships their products, I feel bad for Kingwa too that after all his dedicated efforts to make something as good as Compass and an honest desire to go International has to see this day, I am sure he will learn a lot from it.

 Btw, it seems to me only the shipments destined for the US have been so terribly mishandled, I am kind of waiting to hear from the European and buyers from other places as to how the Compass has reached them, I also have a feeling that it is less likely this might have happened in the origin DHL outlet, because if it happened there, then all packages including NON-US package should be damaged.

 whatever, I really hope this thing sorts out soon for the sake of good and affordable audio, for all the efforts people in the forum has put in to develop something as good as Compass and Audio GD.


----------



## audio-gd

We now contact DHL and handling this things.
 Do worry for that, we will handle it fine.
 Give me one day to handle this things.

 Tomorrow I will affirm the result.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audio-gd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We now contact DHL and handling this things.
 Do worry for that, we will handle it fine.
 Give me one day to handle this things._

 

I am sure he meant *"Do not worry for that, we will handle it fine."*


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audio-gd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We now contact DHL and handling this things.
 Do worry for that, we will handle it fine.
 Give me one day to handle this things._

 

Kingwa, it is really incredible how well you take care of your customers, and I want to personally thank you for working so quickly to fix the problems people are experiencing. It is especially impressive since this is something that happened outside of your control. So for all of that, as well as for the great product, thank you!


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cherry just asked for pics of the DHL bag showing the tracking/waybill #. Still no word on what resolution they are working toward. Perhaps they are trying to get DHL to pick up all the damaged Compasses across the US and return them on DHL's dime. I guess that's the least DHL can do.

 I just want to get the damaged one returned asap so a new one can be shipped out. I want my Compass!_

 

I got that email from Cherry too. I did manage to take a photo before the delivery man left, and amazingly, the tracking number is visible. So, I'm not sure if it helps audio-gd any, but if you do reject the delivery and manage to take photos, I guess make sure to get the tracking number.

 I also received the photo of my Compass in its box with the invoice. Pretty impressive.

 man, I'm bummed. It woulda been nice to do my taxes this afternoon with the compass keeping me company.


----------



## coredump

I got mine today. It's in a box and in perfect condition. There is a sticker on the box that says

 "Security Checked - The contents of this package have been checked by a DHL staff member for security purposes in the presence of the shipper."

 I wonder if some didn't get the sticker and were checked later.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Did the brilliant box really skip the sky?

The descriptive fall can't man the unio


----------



## Hottuna_

Disgraceful DHL service I have to say.
 I remember reading somewhere not long ago that DHL was quitting the US domestic market. Not quite sure how that works out with their international parcels.

 I chose to have my compass to be delivered via EMS mainly because i can drop by the post office to pick it up if i miss the delivery which i probably will unless it gets delivered on a Saturday.
 I am expecting it to arrive by the end of the week hopefully (April 12 batch).
 Had an amp delivered in perfect condition on a Saturday having been sent from HK on Wednesday.
 So i do have some faith in EMS.


----------



## godluvsxs

Sorry to see all these craps happen, I could confidently say it wasn't Kingwa's fault, since I did help some guys here in Malaysia doing COMPASS bulk order with sea shipping which tend to be handle more rough than air shipping, yet all the units arrived safely in box with perfect cosmetic and 100% working condition! I guess it might be the China's DHL agent secretly repackage all the units with plastic bag and earn extra profit with less weight charged! Kingwa would never risk his reputation here, I'd been dealing with him since audio-gd's discrete opamp era, all shipment were packaged very nice, the very very very best ever guy I'd ever dealing with, that's for sure!!!


----------



## csroc

The more I think about this the more I feel bad for Audio-gd. You'd have to think that all the replacements they'll likely have to build will put them behind on orders a bit.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The more I think about this the more I feel bad for Audio-gd. You'd have to think that all the replacements they'll likely have to build will put them behind on orders a bit._

 

You know I feel the same, but I hope folks who have received damage compass will soon get their replacements, in fact if I recollect well, the first time Kingwa shipped 18 Compass, he made 4 extra as standby, just in case the Couriers goof it up, so maybe he has kept aside some this time too, although I am sure he would never have expected such a goof up and in such fashion. All said and done, its really terrible for the buyers to find their Compass mauled up inside a plastic bag, as for Kingwa, I know it must be really tough, but I am sure he will come out stronger after this incident.


----------



## Ricochet

My Compass left Shanghai today by EMS
 Boooo HOOOOooo, can’t wait now lol, feel like child waiting a present.


----------



## nv88

So how many compasses are confirmed to have arrived in a DHL bag?


----------



## les_garten

OK, thought I would post some PIX of my delivery, and a brief story related to the IQ of DHL delivery guys.

 Today, I'm waiting for DHL and the Cable Guy. DHL is supposed to deliver my REF1 and Compass, and the Cable Guy is supposed to come and inspect Packet Loss issues with my Cable Modem. About 12:00 the cable guy arrives after calling and telling me he was on the way from his last appt. He walks in and Hands me a DHL door tag. Immediately I start cussin', pissin, and moanin' about the fact that these Jokers didn't ring the doorbell. I assumed he picked it off the door. He says this was stuck to the gate. The door tag was stuck to the Subdivison gate about a mile away!! Like I would see it there!

 He couldn't figure out how to get in the gate, couldn't figure out how to dial my number, and couldn't figure out how to pass thru the gate following another car. I let the cable guy in the attic, and called DH-Hell. Well they were actually pretty efficient, I raised a little sand and they said he would loop back by 5:30. The truck arrived about 4:00 and the deal with Kingwa was consummated. I shot PIX for a potential review of the REF1, so it just kinda worked out that I have PIX. They're only snaps, I wasn't shooting Glamor shots. The PIX show the REF1, the Compass, SUN/Moon, and an Audio-GD Power cable. The Compass and the REF1 were shipped in the same box, thank God! Even those Hefty bags that hold the Piano wouldn't hold the REF1! The Compass is actually better looking in person than on the webpage. The silver buttons are engine turned and Holographic in their appearance. Some of this shows in the PIX, but it is very pronounced. The anodization is also well done. 

 You'll also notice that there is a RED sticker on the box that says SECURITY CHECKED. I don't believe my box was opened though. That box was packed like a Chinese Puzzle, and it looked too perfect to me to have been opened.

 I am waiting for a SPDIF MUX so couldn't hook up the REF1. So fired up the Compass and it is superb! Best $300 deal out there, BAR NONE! First listen was Earth/Neutral. First Song, Talking Heads: _"Burning Down the House"_. The detail and resolution were Killer. Heard separation and detail in the Percussion I had never heard before. Only listened for about 30 min, but I like it already, a lot. This whole deal is a mystery. Kingwa had the most to lose out of packing things poorly. I don't believe any sane company owner would pack his gear in a bag to send it across the Planet. I wouldn't send something across the state of Rhode Island packed like that. Therein lies the Mystery. I also think that if you were inspecting gear, it would end up in the same box packed poorly perhaps. Not put in a bag. Therein lies the Mystery. I also think after you opened up one or two, why keep opening them up? They all weigh about the same. The dog doesn't indicate a Brick of China White. Doesn't make sense. 

 Hmmm, could be a ZERO DAC conspiracy?

 Tremendous opportunity here for Kingwa. I think I read somewhere that the Chinese characters for Danger and Opportunity were the same? If he handles this in a First Class manner and with aplomb, even those irritated presently will sing his praises. 

 It would be interesting to hear about how high the numbers are? We are not the only forum out there fawning over this product. Remember the other guys who posted here about perceived delays? No matter how you cut it, Audio-GD just got nailed today. The Handling of this issue will be successful if Reputation is preserved, profit be damned. The long term vision here involves trust.

 Here's the PIX I shot while unpacking. I had no intentions of posting these here, but thought it might re-assure some here that Kingwa does a good job of packaging his stuff. I linked to the PIX because I didn't want to resize them so you could appreciate detail. They are small for my Camera but may be big to your browser, beware.

BOX FRESH
BOX Open 1
BOX Open 2
REF 1 on It's Back Like a Turtle
REF1 Extracted!
Compass Peaks through
Compass and a Goodie Box!
2 HDAMS and a Hello Kitty Optical Cable
Audio-GD Power Cable asking to be disected!
Compass Extracted!
Compass Front
Compass Back
SUN and Moon HDAMs
Reference 1 Front
Reference 1 Back

 .


----------



## les_garten

Here's how Professional Companies Handle this type of thing:

 1) They Cross Ship replacements
 2) They say, put the old on in the Box and UPS(or whoever) will be calling to pick it up. It is put on the Vendors Shipping acct.

 I just ordered a Lamp for a SONY LCD Rear Projection TV. The Company sent me the wrong Lamp. Next Day I had another one. Couple weeks later UPS called and arranged Pickup of the Old Lamp.

 I've had the same thing happen with Hard Drives in the Past, Cisco Routers, SUN Servers, etc, etc.

 He would have to take his current Crop of Compass Boxes and divert them to the "Bag holders". Then let the people waiting for Compass gear there will be a delay and possibly offer a carrot, like an OPA for Free.


 .


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's how Professional Companies Handle this type of thing:

 1) They Cross Ship replacements
 2) They say, put the old on in the Box and UPS(or whoever) will be calling to pick it up. It is put on the Vendors Shipping acct._

 

PRECISELY! Only time will tell if Audio-gd will act professionally in the resolution of this mess. I was told a couple times via email that a replacement would be shipped out AFTER they received the damaged Compass. Of course, that was BEFORE the recent update by Kingwa asking us to hold off on doing anything pending a resolution tomorrow.

 We shall see...


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine today. It's in a box and in perfect condition. There is a sticker on the box that says

 "Security Checked - The contents of this package have been checked by a DHL staff member for security purposes in the presence of the shipper."

 I wonder if some didn't get the sticker and were checked later._

 

Encouraging for me. Which batch were you in? Apr 5th or Apr 8th? If possible just post your whole DHL tracking details here..just to compare with others who got the bagged ones.


----------



## Starguard

I just ordered mine today. I'll keep you guys posted.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PRECISELY! Only time will tell if Audio-gd will act professionally in the resolution of this mess. I was told a couple times via email that a replacement would be shipped out AFTER they received the damaged Compass. Of course, that was BEFORE the recent update by Kingwa asking us to hold off on doing anything pending a resolution tomorrow.

 We shall see..._

 

I firmly believe we can expect high level of professionalism from Audio GD in dealing with this issue.. But yes..

 we shall have to wait and see..


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PRECISELY! Only time will tell if Audio-gd will act professionally in the resolution of this mess. I was told a couple times via email that a replacement would be shipped out AFTER they received the damaged Compass. Of course, that was BEFORE the recent update by Kingwa asking us to hold off on doing anything pending a resolution tomorrow.

 We shall see..._

 

I wonder if they have the inventory to ship before receiving them back anyway, not sure how fast they're producing them now plus they've got other customers they still need to ship to I imagine, what a messy situation for a company that I imagine isn't that big and a blow like this is pretty significant to them.


----------



## tim3320070

Kingwa asked me to wait a bit extra for my DAC-19MK3 order as he was down one employee. Take that for what it's worth. 
 If you guys want an awesome value with a great company (albeit small), then you've got to have some patience with the process. If not, go pay double, plus tax at your local hi-fi shop for lesser sound quality.


----------



## denon5000

I received my Compass yesterday in a plastic DHL bag. When I opened it I could see the corners in the front had the edges scratched off, similar to the pictures posted. However there were no other scratches/dents to any other part of the Compass. I am wondering if this was the same with others. If so it makes me think that probably Customs(?) might have filed the edges on the front to expose the material below the paint, especially because the front plate is so thick and might be a cause for suspicion. On opening the Compass I could not see any parts that were even remotely loose and even the EARTH was vertical in place. And if you have tried to pull the Earth out or even touched it you know how easily it moves. Based upon this I am inclined towards the theory that the edges were filed.

 Anyway, I connected it to a portable DVD player via Coaxial and the sound came through clear and strong. Even at faint volumes the sound does not suffer a drop in any frequencies and is always clear. Initially I thought that I was hearing static in the background before I realised that the higher frequencies that were muffled in my earlier setup (CD Player headphone out) were being played clearly. The knobs and switches were all fine and therefore I see no reason to return the equipment. I also received the SUN & MOON in good condition but have not had the time to test them. I also managed to check the USB of the Compass and it worked fine. A question for the more technical, since the Compass is working to my satisfaction from Source -> Coaxial -> Headphone Out, am I correct in assuming that all the different components are also working, or is there some path that I might not be testing? The build quality is excellent and as I said before I could not see even the faintest scratch marks or dents anywhere else. Quite unusual.

 To get back to the sound I first connected it to my Koss Pro4AAAT and this one always gave out a murky sound when connected to the CD player. Connected to the Compass however the sound was detailed and more importantly musical. I think musical cannot be exactly described except that it made the whole listening experience so enjoyable that you wanted to keep listening. Gone was any murkiness in the sound and it was clear and detailed. The Koss are open headphones and that was the reason I had picked them up when they initially came out but was so far disappointed with their performance. Now that I knew that the Compass worked and would not damage my Headphones I connected it to my Denon 5000 not expecting a great difference from the CD player as the Denon's have always given out great sound. Was I surprised, the sound was rich, it sounded correct and instruments, even ones that I had not heard before, were coming through perfectly. And the overall experience to hear the same music and to hear new and different instruments within the music, it was wonderful, well worth the wait. As I said before I initially thought that I was getting some static noise in the background. Really I was hearing the Cymbals and the other instruments so clearly in the background that it seemed like static. Somewhat like taking off sunglasses and seeing that everything looks bright. A wrong conclusion only because earlier I was not getting the correct picture. I did not hear any portion of the sound, bass, mids, highs that did not flow together in harmony to make the entire sound very musical. The Denon's are so good that even from a CD player the music is enjoyable like the Koss Porta Pros that I also have and listen to. But the Compass sound is something entirely different and even without much burn-in the sound is great. I feel truly good about the purchase. I can understand returning the Compass without opening it because of the package and because it looks damaged but if my earlier theory is right then it is unfortunate both for the person sending it back and for Kingwa. I am planning to keep mine and have emailed Kingwa letting him know. I am sure that if I have any issues in the near future, he will keep the package information and scratch mark issues in mind and do the right thing but for now I really have no reason to send it back.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tim3320070* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you guys want an awesome value with a great company (albeit small), then you've got to have some patience with the process. If not, go pay double, plus tax at your local hi-fi shop for lesser sound quality._

 

In the interest of keeping things civil, I'm not going to respond to your comment. Let's just say it's not necessary or welcome.


----------



## tim3320070

Just trying to keep everyones perspective in order......and defend Kingwa. No offense intended.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tim3320070* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just trying to keep everyones perspective in order......and defend Kingwa. No offense intended._

 

Well, I think that the responsibility of defending goes to Kingwa himself, like he has proven in the past, I am sure he will do the same now as far as service is concerned, but as for now, I think it is more important thing to keep in mind is that there are people who of no fault of their own have received a damaged Compass, and I am sure that they had considered many things, maybe even more than what you have said before placing the order for Compass.. and very honestly this isn't the time to come up with statements which might irritate people further, I am sure they dont feel good anyways and are waiting to what resolution Kingwa will come up with..thats how I feel and no offense to anyone either..


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's how Professional Companies Handle this type of thing:

 1) They Cross Ship replacements
 2) They say, put the old on in the Box and UPS(or whoever) will be calling to pick it up. It is put on the Vendors Shipping acct.

 I just ordered a Lamp for a SONY LCD Rear Projection TV. The Company sent me the wrong Lamp. Next Day I had another one. Couple weeks later UPS called and arranged Pickup of the Old Lamp.

 I've had the same thing happen with Hard Drives in the Past, Cisco Routers, SUN Servers, etc, etc.

 He would have to take his current Crop of Compass Boxes and divert them to the "Bag holders". Then let the people waiting for Compass gear there will be a delay and possibly offer a carrot, like an OPA for Free.


 ._

 

I know what you mean, Les, I've had the same thing done with a hard drive too, maybe something else. Thats good service.

 But having said that, that's not necessarily what I expect here. Taking his current stock and diverting it to us baggers would be OK, but it would involve a whole lot more customers in this mess. People here will understand, but if others are not reading this forum, they're going to be 'What, just another delay.'

 This isn't mass-produced stuff, this is hand made. If Kingwa needs a little time to get his head above water, that's fine with me. As far as I'm concerned, he's earned some leeway. He's been completely transparent. Who else provides this service and communication? I know some people are all, "I've been waiting a month, where is it?! &^#!" I'm as bummed as anyone about it -- this will probably wreck my plans to burn-in the two of them leisurely -- but whatever, I've been waiting my entire life for something like this, I can wait another three weeks.


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Encouraging for me. Which batch were you in? Apr 5th or Apr 8th? If possible just post your whole DHL tracking details here..just to compare with others who got the bagged ones._

 

Here you go. Ship date: 4/7/2009 


 Date and time Status Location Service Area 
 4/13/2009 9:03 am With delivery courier. Aurora, CO 
 7:31 am In transit. Aurora, CO 
 4/9/2009 12:53 pm Delivery attempted; recipient not home Aurora, CO 
 9:34 am With delivery courier. Aurora, CO 
 8:24 am In transit. Aurora, CO 
 4/8/2009 1:20 pm Delivery attempted; recipient not home Aurora, CO 
 9:24 am With delivery courier. Aurora, CO 
 7:22 am Arrived at DHL facility. Aurora, CO 
 6:48 am Depart Facility Aurora, CO 
 5:26 am Transit through DHL facility Aurora, CO 
 5:16 am Depart Facility Wilmington, OH 
 3:51 am In transit. Wilmington, OH 
 3:00 am Processed at DHL Location. Wilmington, OH 
 2:53 am Transit through DHL facility Wilmington, OH 
 2:53 am Clearance processing complete Wilmington, OH 
 4/7/2009 7:18 pm Depart Facility Hong Kong - Hub, Hong Kong 
 7:10 pm Processed at DHL Location. Hong Kong - Hub, Hong Kong 
 6:10 pm Transit through DHL facility Hong Kong - Hub, Hong Kong 
 4:00 pm Depart Facility Shenzhen, China, People's Republic 
 3:56 pm Processed at DHL Location. Shenzhen, China, People's Republic 
 3:36 pm Transit through DHL facility Shenzhen, China, People's Republic 
 2:00 pm Depart Facility Dongguan, China, People's Republic 
 1:52 pm Processed at DHL Location. Dongguan, China, People's Republic 
 1:12 pm Departing origin. Dongguan, China, People's Republic 
 12:44 pm Shipment picked up Dongguan, China, People's Republic


----------



## tim3320070

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I think that the responsibility of defending goes to Kingwa himself, like he has proven in the past, I am sure he will do the same now as far as service is concerned, but as for now, I think it is more important thing to keep in mind is that there are people who of no fault of their own have received a damaged Compass, and I am sure that they had considered many things, maybe even more than what you have said before placing the order for Compass.. and very honestly this isn't the time to come up with statements which might irritate people further, I am sure they dont feel good anyways and are waiting to what resolution Kingwa will come up with..thats how I feel and no offense to anyone either..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Fair enough......


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the interest of keeping things civil, I'm not going to respond to your comment. Let's just say it's not necessary or welcome._

 

Saw ecclesand's strong reaction to Tim after my last post. Obviously ecclesand has a different perspective than I do. That's fair enough, I can totally understand the frustration. I wasn't going after anyone, just saying that I personally don't expect (or want) the same service from Kingwa that I do from Zappos.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know what you mean, Les, I've had the same thing done with a hard drive too, maybe something else. Thats good service.

 But having said that, that's not necessarily what I expect here. Taking his current stock and diverting it to us baggers would be OK, but it would involve a whole lot more customers in this mess. People here will understand, but if others are not reading this forum, they're going to be 'What, just another delay.'

 This isn't mass-produced stuff, this is hand made. If Kingwa needs a little time to get his head above water, that's fine with me. As far as I'm concerned, he's earned some leeway. He's been completely transparent. Who else provides this service and communication? I know some people are all, "I've been waiting a month, where is it?! &^#!" I'm as bummed as anyone about it -- this will probably wreck my plans to burn-in the two of them leisurely -- but whatever, I've been waiting my entire life for something like this, I can wait another three weeks._

 

Hi,
 To each their own. A lot of these guys PAID a long time ago. The current batches may have PAID last week or so. The inconvenience is minor to non existent for them. I have a few PM's, there are some ticked off folks out there. Not everyone is as magnanimous as you are! Most Audiophiles are not patient people. It would be in EVERYONE's interest to resolve this quickly as it is a festering sore presently. I also think of course that Zappos does a hell of a job, so go figure!

 .


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Its horrible seeing pictures of all these destroyed Compass' and I really feel for you guys. However, I think it would be completely unfair to expect Kingwa to ship out returned compass' before even receiving the damaged items back. At the end of the day he has promised to repair or send out new units to those who have had these problems, he's said here that he will resolve all this as soon as possible not to mention declaring the value for the units as a lot lower in the first place so that we don't have to pay so much tax on them. You also have to remember he is doing all this, while also offering them to us for a more than amazing introductory price. Yeah I know its sickening to think you have paid $300 for a scratched up brick, but give Kingwa a break! Be thankful it is him dealing with this mess - if it was a Zero you had just bought there would be a chance you would be even more disappointed a month down the line when you find out your warranty is worth squat, or you have to at the very least pay return postage.


----------



## Starguard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 To each their own. A lot of these guys PAID a long time ago. The current batches may have PAID last week or so. The inconvenience is minor to non existent for them. I have a few PM's, there are some ticked off folks out there. Not everyone is as magnanimous as you are! *Most Audiophiles are not patient people.* It would be in EVERYONE's interest to resolve this quickly as it is a festering sore presently. I also think of course that Zappos does a hell of a job, so go figure!

 ._

 

And there lies the problem.


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

So, all the people who received their compass in a plastic bag and in a bad state are from DHL and living in USA ?

 I also had a compass in order but with EMS.

 edit : i thinks its clear now, i feel sorry for audio-gd.


----------



## audio-gd

Sorry to everybody who received damaged Compasses in DHL bags.
 We are negotiating with Chinese DHL, because they did something wrong and without our notice repacked our products ,this is the reason which led to the products being badly damaged .
 They guaranteed that this kind of situation won’t happen again .
 But they still haven’t given us an answer as to how they would compensate.
 I know all buyers who received damaged Compasses are worried now.
 So I would like to inform that I will resolve this matter, before DHL resolves this matter with us , I believe we can't let you worry anymore .
 In 8th of Apr batch Compass.
 1, Whoever received damaged Compass , please send an email to us and include the photos of the damaged Compass and the DHL bag , if the Compass is badly damaged that can’t be repaired , we will ship a new Compass to you as soon as possible .
 2 , If the Compass chassis box is only slightly damaged and easy to repair, I will ship the parts of chassis box to you , and I hope you can help us by replacing them.
 3, If you have refused to accept the Compass package that came in a plastic bag, we will ship a new Compass to you as soon as possible.
*You don’t have to ship back the damaged Compass .*
 I expect can shipping the new Compass at next week . Sorry for the inconvenience caused and the delay it has caused you to hear the Compass . We hope and look forward to your understanding.
 If you can’t understand what I have written, please send me Email for and I will clarify.

 Kingwa


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audio-gd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to everybody who received damaged Compasses in DHL bags.
 We are negotiating with Chinese DHL, because they did something wrong and without our notice repacked our products ,this is the reason which led to the products being badly damaged .
 They guaranteed that this kind of situation won’t happen again .
 But they still haven’t given us an answer as to how they would compensate.
 I know all buyers who received damaged Compasses are worried now.
 So I would like to inform that I will resolve this matter, before DHL resolves this matter with us , I believe we can let you worry anymore .
 In 8th of Apr batch Compass.
 1, Whoever received damaged Compass , please send an email to us and include the photos of the damaged Compass and the DHL bag , if the Compass is badly damaged that can’t be repaired , we will ship a new Compass to you as soon as possible .
 2 , If the Compass chassis box is only slightly damaged and easy to repair, I will ship the parts of chassis box to you , and I hope you can help us by replacing them.
 3, If you have refused to accept the Compass package that came in a plastic bag, we will ship a new Compass to you as soon as possible.
 You don’t have to ship back the Compass .
 I expect can shipping the new Compass at next week . Sorry for the inconvenience caused and the delay it has caused you to hear the Compass . We hope and look forward to your understanding.
 If you can’t understand what I have written, please send me Email for and I will clarify.

 Kingwa_

 

Kudos to Audio Gd for the swift and responsible response

 Kingwa really earned my respect


----------



## audio-gd

Double post


----------



## csroc

Amazing that DHL would repackage them in bags, what on Earth were they thinking?

 If replacing the panels is easy (like it's not the front or back panel particularly) then I imagine some will opt for replacement panels. Some of the panels look so badly damaged that even if the internals were fine I think a replacement is more likely. What a mess but nice to see Audio-gd handling it and hopefully DHL covers for the losses.


----------



## peanuthead

Whoever repackaged these boxes at DHL deserve a good spanking and prompt termination.
 Double Kudos to Kingwa.


----------



## les_garten

I scanned the documents that came in my box.

 Let's see if we can make sense of these. maybe Kingwa will clarify.

 They show, to me, that before these packages left China, at least 4 entities were involved with them.

 Audio-GD
 Sumido
 TF
 DHL

 The wording of the TF document looks like a 3rd party packaging company. 

 This suggests to me that this may have happened in China.

 >>
 >>





 >>
 >>




 >>
 >.
 .

 .


----------



## lowlevelowl

I've been following this thread closely since this mess started since I was considering on ordering my own Compass.

 Kingwas is quite a stand up guy for resolving this mess out of his own pocket for now. Also, DHL China must be some pretty corrupt guys to repackage all of his shipments in bags. 

 The fact that Kingwa stepped up, posted a message to the community instead of hiding, and laid out plans to fix this mess for everyone involved has just sold me on buying a Compass from him. Hopefully others that were on the fence will have the same feelings and order from him too.


----------



## direcow

kudos to Kingwa! Amazing stuff... I hope they solve this problem at DHL once and for all.


----------



## sandchak

Bravo Kingwa !!.. you have my respects !..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Kingwa has stepped up to the plate and delivered. 

 If any of you need help with parts replacement (faceplate swap/back panel swap/toggle swap) instruction I will volunteer to walk you through it since I have plenty of assembly experience over the years with various DIY projects.


 Peete.


----------



## j2kei

great way in taking care of this mess kingwa, amazing service. definitely will be placing my order of the compass once i get the money.


----------



## sarathcpt

One more joining the bagged compass club! My package just arrived and it was in a bag and I refused it. It came through the LA hub. I have just sent out an email to Kingwa. 

 Today is the new year in the calendar that we follow where I am from in India..not a nice way to start a new year !


----------



## edselfordfong

Let me be the first bagger to declare myself satisfied. Really hope that DHL compensates him for this.

 In my case, I'm going out of town and won't be able to hear my new compass for another month, so I'm sad about that.

 I'm really curious about todays deliveries, too. Don't forget to report, people!


----------



## Drosera

And another bravo for Kingwa. I think it's this kind of customer service that will really solidify his reputation for international sales.
 (Although I really hope that eventually DHL will pick up the full tab on this one.)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If any of you need help with parts replacement (faceplate swap/back panel swap/toggle swap) instruction I will volunteer to walk you through it since I have plenty of assembly experience over the years with various DIY projects._

 

I was already checking the insides of my Compass and I had to conclude that, even for someone with virtually no DIY experience at all certainly the changing of the faceplate (not entirely sure about the backplate) should be completely doable. The only real 'challenge' would be (with the faceplate) the desoldering and resoldering of the headphone jack.

 I'm sure with Peete's expert help it shouldn't be too scary an undertaking.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One more joining the bagged compass club! My package just arrived and it was in a bag and I refused it. It came through the LA hub. I have just sent out an email to Kingwa. 

 Today is the new year in the calendar that we follow where I am from in India..not a nice way to start a new year !_

 

After mine yesterday, I figured you'd get a bag too. Bummer.

 Well, Puthandu Vazthukal!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One more joining the bagged compass club! My package just arrived and it was in a bag and I refused it. It came through the LA hub. I have just sent out an email to Kingwa. 

 Today is the new year in the calendar that we follow where I am from in India..not a nice way to start a new year !_

 

Happy poila boishak !!

 I agree its not the best way to start, but maybe you can look at it this way that all your problems will be sorted this year !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .. Hope you get your New Compass soon..

  Quote:


 If any of you need help with parts replacement (faceplate swap/back panel swap/toggle swap) instruction I will volunteer to walk you through it since I have plenty of assembly experience over the years with various DIY projects. 
 

There you go again Peete ! one of the reasons why I love this place ..


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me be the first bagger to declare myself satisfied. Really hope that DHL compensates him for this.

 In my case, I'm going out of town and won't be able to hear my new compass for another month, so I'm sad about that.

 I'm really curious about todays deliveries, too. Don't forget to report, people!_

 

As a fellow bagger, I will be satisfied when I get a working Compass in my hands...not before then. I will say, however, that I am very impressed with Kingwa and Audio-gd for stepping up to the plate and taking care of the customers. Like others have stated, I really, really hope that DHL reimburses Audio-gd for this mess....ALL OF IT!


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, Puthandu Vazthukal!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Happy poila boishak !!
 ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Puthu valsaraashamsagal guys!

 Eventhough I refused the package my tracking status now says... "Consignee premises closed. Will attempt again next business day". #$#$&!


----------



## sandchak

deleted, thought what I wrote was insensitive..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yeah Dro the back panel is a little tougher but the jacks used make it somewhat easier to do. There is no need to unsolder anything on the back panel by the looks of things (unless toggle(s) are broken, easy as pie fix using a soldering iron though).

 I may post a how to for the panels using my test unit as the guinea pig. It depends on how many need this type of thing, either way I will help those that ask for that help !!!

 Thanks Sandchak, Head Fi is very good for selflessly helping others and I have received my share of help from the thoughtful members here in the various sections over the past year and a bit. So I figured I might as well try and help Kingwa and the Compass members out who have a functional but cosmetically scarred unit on their hands. Minor repairs like broken toggles bent jacks,dinged panels(except the base plate) etc can be easily replaced. 

 If some members have units with bent pot shafts I would have to say unless your good at soldering then do not try and replace Vol and source selector pots even though I could also walk you through such a repair as well. It's not a beginner DIY job IMO. Everything else though as Drosera rightly points out is fairly simple to work on.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Puthu valsaraashamsagal guys!

 Eventhough I refused the package my tracking status now says... "Consignee premises closed. Will attempt again next business day". #$#$&!_

 

If you have concerns phone DHL and talk to them about it. The customer service of DHL is pretty good actually.

 Peete.


----------



## Eric M

How do I know what setting I should put the Gain on? I have AKG K702s. High just seems to raise the volume a little.

 EDIT: Getting more distortion at high volumes with Gain on High. Or am I just being a n00b.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Eric your cans are low impedance (62 ohm IIRC) so the lower gain setting is best I would think for 702's. I don't have AKG's so that could be bunk 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Did you pop the lid of the Compass before turning it on to make sure the HDAM is properly seated ? If it's partially out of the socket from shipping knocks and such that distortion you hear could be from a partially unseated HDAM. The other possibility of course is fresh electronics needing burn in time.

 Peete.


----------



## driftingbunnies

+1 for another bagged.


----------



## Drosera

I was just thinking that, for anyone wanting to replace the front- and/or backplate themselves, Audio-gd could probably ship a little bit of WBT silver solder with the replacement parts. That way you can resolder the connection with the same quality solder that Audio-gd uses.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Eric your cans are low impedance (62 ohm IIRC) so the lower gain setting is best I would think for 702's. I don't have AKG's so that could be bunk 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No, you're absolutely right, low gain should be all you need for a K702 (or almost any headphone, probably up to and including 600 ohm Beyers).


----------



## wdoerr

It looks like they used a messenger to deliver to DHL. Their messenger is probably not insured, it was probably someones wife's nephew's son, who was trying to make a buck. Audio-dg probably won't see a dime in damages from the messenger. Their only hope for compensation is for their insurer to cover the damages, which may be unlikely since the package was tampered with. DHL is in the clear. Someone did predict this a few pages ago, but they thought DHL did the package change.


----------



## bobsmith

Just got my Ref1 today, and it is boxed! So it looks like only Compasses and Compass sized things like the C2C that got bagged. I haven't opened it up yet, but the box looks well sealed and there is nothing shaking around inside as far as I can tell. I am pumped to try it tonight...

 Still, fantastic service from Kingwa on dealing with this. Unexpected things can always happen in business, but the key is having the honor to do right by your customers. I cannot imagine a more fair and reasonable response than what Kingwa has done.


----------



## kodreaming

I got my today... in the plastic bag.. Kingwa did email me about refusing the package. However, I was not the one who received it... 

 Fortunately , it is only cosmetic damages. The unit itself is perfectly fine.
 I hope it is not too difficult to replace the side panels and other stuff....


----------



## Zanth

Big props to Kingwa and Audio-gd for handling this situation so very well. Classy, professional and efficiently. The fact that folks no longer have to ship back the damaged units is just awesome. For those able to replace some faceplates, it means they have a working unit now and get to upgrade the looks promptly with a touch of elbow grease. For those that have a damaged unit, their new one is gonna be whipped up and shipped out soon. Awesome!

 I really hope Kingwa sees full compensation from whomever did the deed. If it is this third party intermediary, I hope they are large enough to get the cash back.


----------



## jron

Big thanks to audio-gd for coming out on top of this mess.


----------



## somestranger26

That's beyond ridiculous for DHL to repack all of these Compasses in _bags_. It might have a low declaration value but when you're using a $50 shipping method... DHL is certainly no stranger to screw-ups like this, it took me several months to get a G15 keyboard RMA'd because DHL never got mine returned to Logitech so I had to constantly contact their CS until they finally sent my replacement (in fact, they sent two for my trouble). It's really great to see Kingwa to take care of this so promptly, kudos, and while I won't be purchasing a Compass (I don't think?) I'll certainly give him some business and buy some HDAMs.


----------



## edselfordfong

DHL called me this afternoon. Apparently, they couldn't get in to my apartment complex to redeliver the Compasses that I had rejected yesterday. Nice of them to call, but that's pretty lame. I mean, minutes after they came yesterday their own tracking system said "Delivery rejected by recipient" or something. 

 So, if you rejected delivery, maybe get ready to do it again.


----------



## Skin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DHL called me this afternoon. Apparently, they couldn't get in to my apartment complex to redeliver the Compasses that I had rejected yesterday. Nice of them to call, but that's pretty lame. I mean, minutes after they came yesterday their own tracking system said "Delivery rejected by recipient" or something. 

 So, if you rejected delivery, maybe get ready to do it again._

 

next time grab a sharpie and write Return To Sender on the shipping label then give it back to them. Chances are the driver didnt bother doing this which is why they're going to keep trying to deliver it.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_next time grab a sharpie and write Return To Sender on the shipping label then give it back to them. Chances are the driver didnt bother doing this which is why they're going to keep trying to deliver it._

 

Not so sure about that. My status showed and still does 'Consignee premised closed, will attempt again next business day'. It showed up 5 mins after I refused the package. That looks like the driver deliberately did that. I then called up DHL and they said if I refused they won't attempt again eventhough the status says that. I don't believe it.

 EDIT : Just got an email from Cherry saying they will ship me a new compass next week !! Great customer service....how people/companies behave when things go wrong, shows their true colour...Audio-GD has stood up to this problem in a very professional way!


----------



## Skin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not so sure about that. My status showed and still does 'Consignee premised closed, will attempt again next business day'. It showed up 5 mins after I refused the package. That looks like the driver deliberately did that. I then called up DHL and they said if I refused they won't attempt again eventhough the status says that. I don't believe it.

 EDIT : Just got an email from Cherry saying they will ship me a new compass next week !! Great customer service....how people/companies behave when things go wrong, shows their true colour...Audio-GD has stood up to this problem in a very professional way!_

 

you refused deliverly...clearly he thought it wasnt a good time for you to take your package and he is hoping tomorrow will be a more accepting time for you


----------



## gilency

I am dying to order now but I am a little worried.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am dying to order now but I am a little worried._

 

Worried about?..

 EDIT - I hope I don't sound like I am making a sales pitch here, but I think Audio GD has done more than amicably resolved the problem and sometimes things like this do happen in any business, as long as we know the person at the other end will take care of things in such eventuality is what matters..IMHO


----------



## ExtraNice

2 weeks and still waiting to ship.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The obsequious article ticks into the disfigured metal.

What if the fabulous face ate the catch?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just noticed this today, but does anyone have a 4th setting on their input selector? One extra invisible setting to the left of the USB? It doesn't do anything, but it threw me off when I was trying to select an input._

 

It has to do with the problems of getting certain parts in China. Kingwa couldn't find a 3-way selector switch of sufficient quality, so he has to use a 4-way one. As far as I know, all the Compasses have this.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the alcoholic trouble ate the height?

Did the discreet channel really clear the south?


----------



## Hottuna_

Just checked my email. Got my EMS tracking number from Cherry.
 Looks like the package is now at my local Auspost messenger hub.
 I expect it will be delivered tomorrow. Not sure if anybody will be around to accept it though as i will be at work.
 Probably get it carded and I will have to pick it up from the post office on saturday.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the midst of all these shipment woes, I'm still wondering about the hissing in the left channel in USB input mode. At first, I thought it was a foobar settings problem, but it still arises when I'm watching movies in Zoom Player away from the ASIO4ALL stuff. 

 This L-channel hiss comes up a few times a day, randomly when there is sound playing through the compass. It comes and goes randomly, or if I stop playing my music/movies, it disappears all together.

 I have no such problems with the coaxial input from my computer. Also, I tried switching the USB port from the motherboard to an extra USB card I bought, but to no avail.

 Is there something funny with the inside of my compass?_

 

So now it's just in the left channel? I thought before it occurred in both the right and the left channel?

 It's certainly a bit of a puzzle. Since it occurs in the left channel that might suggest that something is happening only after the 2 channels have become separate signals. (So basically after it has left the DAC-chip.) But the kind of noise you're reporting actually suggests some kind of digital distortion that would occur before DA conversion. Also, because you don't come across it when using coax input rather eliminates most of the DAC as the possible culprit.

 The only thing I can think of right now is that the USB receiver chip might be malfunctioning. But I don't find that a very convincing answer actually...


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the exemplary guard ate the permission?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the quick reply. It is only in the left channel, I think I had my headphones on backwards previously so I mis-heard it as in the right. 

 Since it only comes intermittently, i'm hoping that it is some sort of interference. But then... if it is interference, wouldn't it persist even if I had no sound playing?_

 

Not necessarily, if the interference is introduced in the signal, you still need signal transmission (or amplification) to actually hear it. So, in a way, the signal has become 'polluted'.

 You might try listening using the analog out of a cd player or something similar, using only the amp of the Compass to make sure it's not caused by the amp. But actually, it doesn't really sound like it is.

 So here's the puzzle:

 1. Since it only occurs with USB it appears to be a USB-related problem that occurs before that signal reaches the DAC chip.

 2. It occurs only in the left channel, and before the signal reaches the DAC chip the left and right channel are part of the same digital signal.

 It doesn't make sense.

 Have you already asked Kingwa if he has a clue what might be wrong here?


----------



## B0FF

hey everybody,
 just received a lettre (in french) that my compass arrived at a sorting facility. They ask wether I agree to bear all customs duties and taxes 
 and that they want to see a bill, a proof that I paid and some kind of confirmation.



 the price on the bill differs from the one marked on the packed.
 will there be consequences for me other than paying the correct amount of taxes 
 and will Kingwa get in trouble for indicating the wrong price on the package.

 It's the first time I bought something that expensive online,
 so I'm not quite sure what to expect from customs


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B0FF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey everybody,
 just received a lettre (in french) that my compass arrived at a sorting facility. They ask wether I agree to bear all customs duties and taxes 
 and that they want to see a bill, a proof that I paid and some kind of confirmation.

 the price on the bill differs from the one marked on the packed.
 will there be consequences for me other than paying the correct amount of taxes 
 and will Kingwa get in trouble for indicating the wrong price on the package.

 It's the first time I bought something that expensive online,
 so I'm not quite sure what to expect from customs_

 

Oh dear, Luxembourg and Finnish customs seem to be the hardest to deal with. I think it's generally advisable, when customs gets in contact with you, to be completely honest with them. I don't think Kingwa can get in trouble with them, but _you_ can if you try to trick them. However, if you're honest with them now I don't think there would be trouble for you, because you're not responsible for the value that a shipper puts on a package.

 You could try asking Kingwa about this as well, maybe he knows a way around it.

*EDIT: *By the way, looking at that form again, it appears they are asking you for a bill OR a proof of payment OR confirmation of internet purchase. You could try calling them to ask if the declaration form included by Kingwa isn't enough already.


----------



## squall343

if i am not wrong, Kingwa declared the goods as sample?

 maybe can trick the customs that it is just a sample used for evaluating purposes


----------



## nauxolo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not necessarily, if the interference is introduced in the signal, you still need signal transmission (or amplification) to actually hear it. So, in a way, the signal has become 'polluted'.

 You might try listening using the analog out of a cd player or something similar, using only the amp of the Compass to make sure it's not caused by the amp. But actually, it doesn't really sound like it is.

 So here's the puzzle:

 1. Since it only occurs with USB it appears to be a USB-related problem that occurs before that signal reaches the DAC chip.

 2. It occurs only in the left channel, and before the signal reaches the DAC chip the left and right channel are part of the same digital signal.

 It doesn't make sense.

 Have you already asked Kingwa if he has a clue what might be wrong here?_

 


 Maybe this will help: I switched the USB port from the back of the computer to the front USB port. Now all the problems lie in the right channel. Furthermore, the hiss still continues even if I stop any sound from playing. Do you think this is a problem with my PC/USB ports/Vista?


----------



## B0FF

I called sorting facility and as Drosera noticed, they need only one bill or proof of payment or a confirmation of internet purchase.
 They told me that all the info on the package itself was written in chinese and that they did not open the package.
 I emailed Kingwa to see whether he could possibly write me another bill with the value indicated on the package.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe this will help: I switched the USB port from the back of the computer to the front USB port. Now all the problems lie in the right channel. Furthermore, the hiss still continues even if I stop any sound from playing. Do you think this is a problem with my PC/USB ports/Vista?_

 

Yeah, that really sounds like the problem is your computer. Do you happen to have another computer you can use or borrow to test this? Alternatively, have you also tried using a different USB cable? (Just to eliminate that possibility.)

 If it's really PC/Vista related I certainly can't help you any further, because I don't know a thing about that OS. (Picture me holding up my copy of XP x64 saying: "From my cold dead hands..." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )

 However, if you're using Vista you could just switch to WASAPI instead of ASIO4ALL. See the instructions here.


----------



## Currawong

I feel like stating here, one of the reasons I started this thread in the first place, and suggested to Kingwa he make the Compass, is that I had complete confidence that, even if it became popular, that he wouldn't compromise quality or customer service as a result, even if it means a delay for the customer. I'm glad this is proving true. I just wish it were the same for the DHL agent in China who caused this mess.


----------



## B0FF

So I've been thinking and I'm not sure anymore whether getting another bill is a great idea.
 If I remember correctly the original bill is inside the package (I'm not finding the photos in the Head/fi thread anymore).
 I called the ones that send me the letter and they told me they did not open the package.
 But if I show them a bill of 60 Dollars and customs open the package later and see the original bill. Then I'm screwed.
 So i guess the best is to just show them the real bill.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B0FF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've been thinking and I'm not sure anymore whether getting another bill is a great idea.
 If I remember correctly the original bill is inside the package (I'm not finding the photos in the Head/fi thread anymore).
 I called the ones that send me the letter and they told me they did not open the package.
 But if I show them a bill of 60 Dollars and customs open the package later and see the original bill. Then I'm screwed.
 So i guess the best is to just show them the real bill._

 

As far as I know, the only 'original bill' is in your Paypal account. I don't there's one in the package. But maybe something's changed since I ordered the Compass. So perhaps some of the people who recently received theirs can chime in on this one.


----------



## Hot Pixel

The bill was on the front of the box for me. However; I'm guessing they opened it to see what's inside, since it's not the same box as I've seen in pictures.
 Anyway; here's what the bill reads:
 Headphone amplifier 50
 Power cable 0.5
 Circuit Board Module 2
 Wires 0.2
 Little Socket 0.1

 Total value of goods in the shipment: USD 55,9

 Hope that helps
 ---
 I got it in perfect shape. It's burning into soft2 mode, which, if I'm doing things correctly means I place four 'little socket' thingies over eight (4x 2) metal spike-things near the volume. Did I do that correctly?
 Can't hear the change in sound, which is weird but I'm a bit preoccupied since my desk has collapsed on me. One could say the compass was the straw that broke the camels back.
 Anyways I do have another question; I usually listen at very low volume; say if 6 o' clock is 'silent', my volume knob doesn't go over 7/8. However the audio doesn't seem to be sure which channel it'll take at such a low volume. It changes from left to right. Kind of like when your headphone jack doesn't make a good connection to your audio player, if you know wat I mean. This goes away at louder volume.
 Any thoughts?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the quick reply. It is only in the left channel, I think I had my headphones on backwards previously so I mis-heard it as in the right. 

 Since it only comes intermittently, i'm hoping that it is some sort of interference. But then... if it is interference, wouldn't it persist even if I had no sound playing?_

 

I think as Dro said, you already tried a different USB input, have you tried a different USB cable??.. sometimes the cable itself can cause such problems..


----------



## haloxt

It's supposed to start at 7 o clock not 6 And the volume changes from left to right because of channel imbalance at low volume, completely normal. And you put the jumper sockets right, it differs very very slightly from bright/neutral which is why you didn't notice. Make sure you switched to L in the back of the compass for lower volume.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Drosera! 


 In the midst of all these shipment woes, I'm still wondering about the hissing in the left channel in USB input mode. At first, I thought it was a foobar settings problem, but it still arises when I'm watching movies in Zoom Player away from the ASIO4ALL stuff. 

 This L-channel hiss comes up a few times a day, randomly when there is sound playing through the compass. It comes and goes randomly, or if I stop playing my music/movies, it disappears all together.

 I have no such problems with the coaxial input from my computer. Also, I tried switching the USB port from the motherboard to an extra USB card I bought, but to no avail.

 Is there something funny with the inside of my compass?_

 

See if you can run it USB from another coputer and see if it happens?

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B0FF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey everybody,
 just received a lettre (in french) that my compass arrived at a sorting facility. They ask wether I agree to bear all customs duties and taxes 
 and that they want to see a bill, a proof that I paid and some kind of confirmation.



 the price on the bill differs from the one marked on the packed.
 will there be consequences for me other than paying the correct amount of taxes 
 and will Kingwa get in trouble for indicating the wrong price on the package.

 It's the first time I bought something that expensive online,
 so I'm not quite sure what to expect from customs_

 

See if Kingwa can send you a sales receipt?

 .


----------



## Olev

Mine is in the customs as well according to tracking ... anxious to see what they want to ask about price etc


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*EDIT: *By the way, looking at that form again, it appears they are asking you for a bill OR a proof of payment OR confirmation of internet purchase. You could try calling them to ask if the declaration form included by Kingwa isn't enough already._

 

Actually Kingwa sent me a bill last time when there was hassles with Customs for the DAC19, its not going to be exactly a duplicate copy, but just another bill with the description of the item, receivers name and address, tracking number and the originally declared amount..


----------



## boomana

I'm glad Kingwa is making good on the poorly packed/damaged items, but why would a company like DHL repackage something (take it out of a well packed box, throw away the box, put it in a bag), especially if it was boxed up properly (double boxed?) in the first place. Sounds like a huge waste of time and money and makes no sense to me.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm glad Kingwa is making good on the poorly packed/damaged items, but why would a company like DHL repackage something (take it out of a well packed box, throw away the box, put it in a bag), especially if it was boxed up properly (double boxed?) in the first place. Sounds like a huge waste of time and money and makes no sense to me._

 

As far as I know, I believe it was the *collection agents of DHL* which did that.. and since audio GD pays the collection agent of DHL the shipping amount, it makes sense they did that to make some quick bucks on shipping amount.


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I know, I believe it was the *collection agents of DHL* which did that.. and since audio GD pays the collection agent of DHL the shipping amount, it makes sense they did that to make some quick bucks on shipping amount._

 

This was my understanding as well. The intermediary decided to make some cash by ditching the bulkier, suitable packaging and bagged everything, making a quick cash grab.

 Totally heinous! I really hope Kingwa is able to get his money back.


----------



## boomana

okay, but what doesn't make sense to me is that I'm assuming there is a factory or workshop where the amps are made. In order to leave the facility, small or large, don't they have to be packed properly at that point, before they leave the door?


----------



## Zanth

Yes they do. 

 Here is how it works:

 Audio-gd packages everything up nicely and PAYS the full shipping cost to a third party company that acts as an intermediary between Audio-gd and DHL. DHL subcontracts a company to pick up packages.

 Because Audio-gd has paid the full delivery price based on size and weight of a fully boxed up package, the third party company can make some fast cash by ditching the boxes and throwing everything into a small plastic bag. They deliver it to DHL, DHL has no beef with the packaging, but they may think it is absurd that electronics are bagged not boxed. But whatever! The info is correct on the bags, the money has been paid so they attempt delivery.

 Audio-gd has done everything they are supposed to do in terms of proper packaging and payment to have them securely shipped.

 DHL has done everything they should in terms of accepting payment from the third party company and delivering the packages to the customers.

 The third party company has defrauded Audio-gd and made DHL look like an insanely evil and inept company.

 Kingwa must pursue action against the third party company not DHL to recoup the cash.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okay, but what doesn't make sense to me is that I'm assuming there is a factory or workshop where the amps are made. In order to leave the facility, small or large, don't they have to be packed properly at that point, before they leave the door?_

 

Yes that is correct, before it leaves Audio Gd's workshop the items are securely packed and tentatively weighed, I suppose since Audio GD has started to ship from GuanZhou DHL to save some shipping amount and pass the benefit to the buyers, the collection agent of DHL collects the packed items from Audio GD warehouse (which is 60km from GuangZhou where the DHL office is located), the collection agent of DHL collects the packages and the amount of shipping according to weight and takes it to GuangZhou.
 So if the collection agent wishes to make some quick bucks he can actually reduce the weight of the package by removing the boxes and pack them in DHL plastic bags, in this way the agent can make some money on the difference in shipping amount, as the items without boxes will weigh much less than the ones boxed, multiplied by 40 packages, thats quite a good amount.. This is my understanding about the entire incident ..

 What Zanth said is correct, although the only difference being is that the third party in between is an authorized collection agent of DHL, so DHL does share some kind of responcibility too..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes that is correct, before it leaves Audio Gd's workshop the items are securely packed and tentatively weighed, I suppose since Audio GD has started to ship from GuanZhou DHL to save some shipping amount and pass the benefit to the buyers, the collection agent of DHL collects the packed items from Audio GD warehouse (which is 60km from GuangZhou where the DHL office is located), the collection agent of DHL collects the packages and the amount of shipping according to weight and takes it to GuangZhou.
 So if the collection agent wishes to make some quick bucks he can actually reduce the weight of the package by removing the boxes and pack them in DHL plastic bags, in this way the agent can make some money on the difference in shipping amount, as the items without boxes will weigh much less than the ones boxed, multiplied by 40 packages, thats quite a good amount.. This is my understanding about the entire incident ..

 What Zanth said is correct, although the only difference being is that the third party in between is an authorized collection agent of DHL, so DHL does share some kind of responcibility too.._

 

How much do you think a Compass box weighs?

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much do you think a Compass box weighs?

 ._

 

Its just not the box plus the foam weight which makes the difference, its also the Volume of the package, that is how DHL calculates shipping cost.. and the volume decreases a lot without the box..

  Quote:


 Shipping charge: 

 Because from here to GuangZhou is 60KM, so we will ship two times a week , We will ship at Monday and Thursday , wish to get your understanding.
 The gross weight of Compass (packed) is 5.2KG by DHL, or 5KG by EMS (DHL charge the weight have two method, the one is "actual weight", another is the " three-dimensional (size) weight " of the pack, they change follow method to check the pack:
 W (CM) X H (CM) X L (CM)/ 5000= KG 
 DHL will charge the max between "actual weight" and " three-dimensional (size) weight " to account the shipping cost.
 The Compass actual weight is 4.95KG, but " three-dimensional (size) weight " is 5.2KG, so ship by DHL is 5.2KG, ship by EMS is 5KG (EMS only charge the actual weight.


----------



## Zanth

Yes, the volume is the killer, not the weight. Decreasing the volume by a significant amount will reduce the cost to ship and that multiplied by 40 (and more depending on how many other companies they do this to) means they can make a handsome profit very quickly.


----------



## ecclesand

I wonder if the shipping agent for DHL (and the suspected culprit) is this Topway Cargo Co Ltd that is stamped on my DHL waybill. Per the waybill, the Total Weight was removed with what looks like Whiteout and then there is a 3 next to the Whiteout area. Per the Audio-gd website, the packed weight of the Compass is 4.95kg.

 EDIT: While holding the waybill up to the light I can see that the number under the Whitout area is 5.3. The plot thickens!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the volume is the killer, not the weight. Decreasing the volume by a significant amount will reduce the cost to ship and that multiplied by 40 (and more depending on how many other companies they do this to) means they can make a handsome profit very quickly._

 

Correct. The volume wouldn't change that much with the bag. Maybe a little. There was foam shipped with all the Compasses. The box would be an ounce or so. Even a little more foam, another 2 oz. The weight was not an issue here. The difference in weight between a bagged Compass and a Boxed Compass can't be that much. I can't imagine it is more that 4-5 Oz.

 Now if there is a flat rate envelope/bag deal, that's where this is at in profit margin. I'm thinking DHL has some deal on that bag. There may be rules about you can't put a box in a bag.

 .


----------



## Drosera

For those of you who enjoy the facts to this mystery, I just put the box (including the foam) in which my Compass came on the kitchen scales. 830 grams. Factoring in that with later Compass packages even more foam was used, I think it's safe to say that the box and the foam were about a kilo.


----------



## boomana

Did DHL or Kingwa contract with the collecting folks?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those of you who enjoy the facts to this mystery, I just put the box (including the foam) in which my Compass came on the kitchen scales. 830 grams. Factoring in that with later Compass packages even more foam was used, I think it's safe to say that the box and the foam were about a kilo._

 

I stand corrected, must be quite a box!

 .


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did DHL or Kingwa contract with the collecting folks?_

 

It appears DHL did. Hopefully that is the case because then perhaps they have a case with DHL who will be more apt to pay any damages.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I stand corrected, must be quite a box!

 ._

 

Not too shabby, but nothing very special either. I think a lot of the weight is actually determined by the foam, which is rather dense as foam goes.

 I guess the weight of the bag is almost negligable, but some foam was included as well, so the total amount of weight that was 'saved' by losing the box and part of the foam is probably around 800 grams.

 However, that doesn't really account for why on Ecclesand's package the weight was reduced from 5.3 to 3. So, your "bag-hypothesis" might be a factor in this as well...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those of you who enjoy the facts to this mystery, I just put the box (including the foam) in which my Compass came on the kitchen scales. 830 grams. Factoring in that with later Compass packages even more foam was used, I think it's safe to say that the box and the foam were about a kilo._

 

Yes Dro, and if you look at the foam which came with DHL bags and the foam Audio GD packs in the box, there is quite a lot of Volume difference..


----------



## tim3320070

Has anyone used Kingwa's upgraded power cable to success or can hear a difference (in an product I guess)?


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B0FF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey everybody,
 just received a lettre (in french) that my compass arrived at a sorting facility. They ask wether I agree to bear all customs duties and taxes 
 and that they want to see a bill, a proof that I paid and some kind of confirmation.



 the price on the bill differs from the one marked on the packed.
 will there be consequences for me other than paying the correct amount of taxes 
 and will Kingwa get in trouble for indicating the wrong price on the package.

 It's the first time I bought something that expensive online,
 so I'm not quite sure what to expect from customs_

 

You could go there and tell them that it should be in the box. If it is, then you can use whatever price is on the sheet in there, if not you can run home to "get an electronic copy sent", print off whatever you want (email from Kingwa saying $50 or the actual bill), and bring that in. 

 ----------

 So I shipped using EMS which should be only 5 -10 days shipping, but the tracking says that it hasn't moved since Friday. Is this normal, are there other people who shipped with EMS who are experiencing the same problem, or did someone steal mine along the way because they needed to upgrade their system as well? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I haven't heard anything bad about EMS yet, but its no fun checking your delivery a few times a day if it just sits there.


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tim3320070* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone used Kingwa's upgraded power cable to success or can hear a difference (in an product I guess)?_

 

I am using the upgraded cable. Besides better shielding (less hash in the signal) I haven't given a solid A/B testing. However, the fact that the noise floor is reduced is significant enough for me to use it exclusively.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could go there and tell them that it should be in the box. If it is, then you can use whatever price is on the sheet in there, if not you can run home to "get an electronic copy sent", print off whatever you want (email from Kingwa saying $50 or the actual bill), and bring that in. 

 ----------

 So I shipped using EMS which should be only 5 -10 days shipping, but the tracking says that it hasn't moved since Friday. Is this normal, are there other people who shipped with EMS who are experiencing the same problem, or did someone steal mine along the way because they needed to upgrade their system as well? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I haven't heard anything bad about EMS yet, but its no fun checking your delivery a few times a day if it just sits there._

 

My experience with EMS is, the last few days after it hits customs, it just shows up. No granularity after that on the Webpage because it has passed into the Postal system. Be ready, it could be there today. All my EMS shipments do that in the US.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am using the upgraded cable. Besides better shielding (less hash in the signal) I haven't given a solid A/B testing. However, the fact that the noise floor is reduced is significant enough for me to use it exclusively._

 

What exactly do you refer to "Better shielding" Kingwa told me he does not use shielding. Additionally mine does not seem to have any shield. Kingwa told me the shield was bad for SQ.

 .


----------



## Zanth

I have hash in my left channel. When I use the Audio-gd cable I have less of that. So whatever is up there is your guess since I thought there must have been shielding in there.


----------



## Drosera

Could it be that a cable which is less good at cleanly conducting the electricity could already be a source of interference?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have hash in my left channel. When I use the Audio-gd cable I have less of that. So whatever is up there is your guess since I thought there must have been shielding in there._

 

Far as I know Zero Shielding. It is twisted which is where you might be getting benefit.

 .


----------



## Hot Pixel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I shipped using EMS which should be only 5 -10 days shipping, but the tracking says that it hasn't moved since Friday. Is this normal, are there other people who shipped with EMS who are experiencing the same problem, or did someone steal mine along the way because they needed to upgrade their system as well? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I haven't heard anything bad about EMS yet, but its no fun checking your delivery a few times a day if it just sits there._

 

Yup. I had it when I ordered a SR225 from someone. It's quite frustrating to be sure. They're probably working behind the scenes though; EMS doesn't have the most up-to-date track&trace AFAIK.
 Patience is a virtue in this case. In my specific case the postman just showed up even though the tracking was stuck in houston or something like that. Kind of weird.


----------



## Zanth

Might be... I don't have the greatest power at home on the main floor so when I first listened with the Westone ES3X's I could hear noise in the left channel only. Every other headphone I used was dead silent. 

 I then used the better power cord, and the noise was reduced. When I brought the unit to work, my lab has incredibly clean power and I still had some noise. But, again, it was diminished with the better power cable.

 So whatever is happening, I'm not overly concerned about the specifics, so long as I get to enjoy a better sound.


----------



## Starguard

Just a quick question--I purchased my Compass early yesterday. When should I expect shipping #/confirmation?


----------



## gilency

sooooo, are the problems with DHL and shipping fixed? Do you think is safer to order now? DHL or EMS? I really want to purchase this unit.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sooooo, are the problems with DHL and shipping fixed? Do you think is safer to order now? DHL or EMS? I really want to purchase this unit._

 

I think the chances of this occurring again are NONE.

 .


----------



## tim3320070

I am waiting for a couple fo things from Kingwa and I asked him this- he suggested EMS if we are concerned at all.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Might be... I don't have the greatest power at home on the main floor so when I first listened with the Westone ES3X's I could hear noise in the left channel only. Every other headphone I used was dead silent. 

 I then used the better power cord, and the noise was reduced. When I brought the unit to work, my lab has incredibly clean power and I still had some noise. But, again, it was diminished with the better power cable.

 So whatever is happening, I'm not overly concerned about the specifics, so long as I get to enjoy a better sound._

 

Actually there can be many factors, and as long I get the desired results, its better not to bother about the technology. In fact Audio GD power cord has 5 strands of wire, instead of normally 3, one pair runs side by side and the other pair is twisted, the fifth wire being earth.. so one never knows what all this brings about..


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Did the finicky flight really ask the care?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've tried two cables so far, same problems! Although, I'm getting a Belkin Gold cable just because it is more robust._

 

I guess the last option would be what Les said, try another computer and see it is still the same..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've tried two cables so far, same problems! Although, I'm getting a Belkin Gold cable just because it is more robust._

 


 There is probably no way this is the cable picking on one channel. It is a digital signal, 1's and 0's. How is the cable affecting only the Left 1's and Left 0's, etc. Change Computer, I think you'll have your answer.

 .


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sooooo, are the problems with DHL and shipping fixed? Do you think is safer to order now? DHL or EMS? I really want to purchase this unit._

 

I think you can safely place an order. They wouldn't start shipping out again until this is sorted out which I guess shouldn't take that long because Cherry said she will email me a new one next week since I rejected the bagged one.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you can safely place an order. They wouldn't start shipping out again until this is sorted out which I guess shouldn't take that long because Cherry said she will *email *me a new one next week since I rejected the bagged one._

 

Hey...how can I get my replacement Compass emailed to me instead of shipped?


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey...how can I get my replacement Compass emailed to me instead of shipped? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Print it, tape it to the headphone out on your computer and plug your headphones in. I'm sure it'll blow your mind!!


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Print it, tape it to the headphone out on your computer and plug your headphones in. I'm sure it'll blow your mind!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The wonders of technology these days!

 Anyone with a compass and a nice soundcard tried comparing different output options? For example compared soundcard --> SPDIF --> Compass, then onboard --> SPDIF --> Compass?

 Or compared USB and SPDIF from soundcard/onboard?

 I've ordered a compass, but wondering whether my onboard from Asus Mobo will be ok... I usually use onboard --> coax --> zero --> HD650.... but tried SPDIF this evening and it seems a touch better, could perhaps notice slightly less grain in certain songs. Obviously when I get the Compass there is always the USB option as well. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm inclined to say SPDIF may be my best option, going by some threads I have read on the computer as source section.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is probably no way this is the cable picking on one channel. It is a digital signal, 1's and 0's. How is the cable affecting only the Left 1's and Left 0's, etc. Change Computer, I think you'll have your answer.

 ._

 

digital is NOT 1 and 0....it's more like 12.5% -88.5%..on the rising edge and 78.5% - 15% on the falling edge...all is switched in accordance to a clock...more likely just a flip-flop..not a real 'clock' per se


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_digital is NOT 1 and 0....it's more like 12.5% -88.5%..on the rising edge and 78.5% - 15% on the falling edge...all is switched in accordance to a clock...more likely just a flip-flop..not a real 'clock' per se_

 


 Then you explain to him how it's picking on his left channel.

 .


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then you explain to him how it's picking on his left channel.

 ._

 

how does one analog channel pick up signal from another? cross talk? interference? we can keep on going down the list of potential issues. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cross talk between two digital channels is rare, but could happen....probably garbage in -> cross-talk -> worse garbage out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ..I was merely offering my comments in response to your reply


----------



## AudioPhewl

Man, there has been some bad luck lately. I opened quotes of other posts in new tabs so I could comment, but it appears everyone is now on top of things.

 I knew from the start that this wasn't down to Audio-GD - they're a small manufacturer, doing us all a favour to boost the presence of their name in our community, and the wider community as a whole. There's no way whatsoever that they would skimp on packing like this - such problems are critical when building your company a footing, and for the sake of a few dollars they'd not risk it.

 Happy listening! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey...how can I get my replacement Compass emailed to me instead of shipped? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

h
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...wouldn't that be great...


----------



## Eric M

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_digital is NOT 1 and 0....it's more like 12.5% -88.5%..on the rising edge and 78.5% - 15% on the falling edge...all is switched in accordance to a clock...more likely just a flip-flop..not a real 'clock' per se_

 

 ... like humans can actually notice that.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_digital is NOT 1 and 0....it's more like 12.5% -88.5%..on the rising edge and 78.5% - 15% on the falling edge...all is switched in accordance to a clock...more likely just a flip-flop..not a real 'clock' per se_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eric M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... like humans can actually notice that._

 

Actually, they will. The result of this does determine the 'succes' of digital data transmission. People seem to have a rather utopian view of digital signals, where everything is transmitted in a perfectly discrete form. In reality it's actually quite a bit more messy.


----------



## Chu

A lot of audiophiles really go the complete opposite direction when it comes to digital to try to justify some truly insane things. We're talking about a 192KHz signal here. Your computer is probably connected to your router via a 250MHz signal. That's 1300x times the clock rate, over 20c/ft. cables.

 The rates you deal with in Digital Audio really are child's play.


----------



## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_digital is NOT 1 and 0....it's more like 12.5% -88.5%..on the rising edge and 78.5% - 15% on the falling edge...all is switched in accordance to a clock...more likely just a flip-flop..not a real 'clock' per se_

 

I have no clue what you are trying to say.


----------



## ExtraNice

Anyway know their next shipment?

 Their consignment page seems to have gone crazy...

 Shows the 08 delivery page.


----------



## Damian

My Compass arrived today... It turns out I'm also only getting sound out of the left channel.

 I've tried it in super-mode running it just as an amp, as well as from USB, but it doesn't make a difference; There is still no sound in the right channel. I've tried swapping out to a different OPA (from Earth to Moon), but again no difference. I've tried high and low gain...

 Does anyone have any other suggestions?


----------



## sandchak

Did this come in a box or was it in a bag ? ( till I think of some solution...)

 EDIT - someone had the same problem earlier, have you tried using the coax or optical ?? or are you finding this problem only with USB??


----------



## Damian

It was in a box... Some of the edges of the box had squashed corners as if it had been dropped, but it didn't look all that bad it wasn't as if it was all mangled, and the Compass looked fine (only noticable thing being the HDAM was slightly lose, but that isn't really surprising).

 I've used it just as an amp bypassing the DAC altogether, but the same issue is there... I haven't tried Coax or Optical, although I figured if it didn't work bypassing the DAC it still wouldn't work no matter what DAC setting I used; I'll give it a go though.
 if I had another pair of 6.3mm headphones I could try those too... I'll try to find an adapter, although my headphones work fine everywhere else.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Damian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was in a box... Some of the edges of the box had squashed corners as if it had been dropped but it didn't look all that bad it wasn't as if it was badly mangled, and the Compass looked fine (only noticable thing being the HDAM was slightly lose, but that isn't really surprising)._

 

OK, then like I asked earlier, is this problem of one channel only with USB or have you tried the coax and optical connection? does the same problem happen when using external; speakers and headphones??.. sometimes I have seen if the headphone isn't locked in well, it only plays one channel..

  Quote:


 I've used it just as an amp bypassing the DAC altogether, but the same issue is there... I haven't tried Coax or Optical, although I figured if it didn't work bypassing the DAC it still wouldn't work no matter what DAC setting I used; I'll give it a go though.
 if I had another pair of 6.3mm headphones I could try those too... I'll try to find an adapter, although my headphones work fine everywhere else. 
 

Try the coax and optical and see if it works, if it does, it means its the problem with 1) either the USB cable, USB input of the PC or Compass USB.. first lets see if it works with the coax and optical connection..


----------



## Damian

I haven't tried running just the DAC... Actually I'll give that a go and report back.

 I've tried pushing the connector in as firmly as I'd be comfortable doing, as well as tried pulling it out to see if I'd hear sound through the other channel (I do but only because the left signal ends up being played through the right channel). I've tried it with different headphones and I noticed if I wiggle it (hold it downwards and to the right) I get sound out of both channels, however it's heavily distorted and I couldn't rule out this just being one channel being sent through but split between the right and left channels.

 edit: Alright I've tried both Coax and Optical; still only sound in the left channel. Hm maybe I need to unscrew things to inspect the headphone jack for loose connections; Why must they hide it away heh... If not that I think it may be beyond my ability to diagnose sadly : /


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Damian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry I edited my last post instead of posting again



 I've tried pushing the connector in as firmly as I'd be comfortable doing, as well as tried pulling it out to see if I'd hear sound through the other channel (I do but only because the left signal ends up being played through the right channel). I've tried it with different headphones and I noticed if I wiggle it (hold it downwards and to the right) I get sound out of both channels, however it's heavily distorted and I couldn't rule out this just being one channel being sent through but split between the right and left channels.

 edit: Alright I've tried both Coax and Optical; still only sound in the left channel. Hm maybe I need to unscrew things to inspect the headphone jack for loose connections; Why must they hide it away heh... If not that I think it may be beyond my ability to diagnose sadly : /_

 

Try the coax and optical because that is the only way we can narrow down the problem..

 EDIT.. Well, in that case, open up the Compass and look for any loose connections or snapped wires and connections.. see if you find something out of place ..


 OK check some things when you open the Compass:

 Check the wires that connect the DAC Board and see if any wires have snapped off.. in the same way check if any wires connecting the HP amp board and headphone socket have snapped off..


----------



## Damian

Ah! I tried running it just as a DAC bypassing the amp section; And... It works, sound out of both channels! Yay!
 Which means the problem must be in the amp section or connector, hrm... Okay no idea what to do now! Check jack I guess is step one...

 Edit: Commenting about how it sounds this is really embarrassing; My main DAC is Apogee Duet which I love and bought a Mac because I love the Duet so much! Even this virgin unburnt in Compass, I'm loving the sound of the DAC with Moon... And the Duet is what $500 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That's way impressive I was sure compared to Duet I'd be disappointed or at least convince myself I was because I am so fan-ish for Duet! This is one nice souding piece of gear. Wow.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Damian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah! I tried running it just as a DAC bypassing the amp section; And... It works, sound out of both channels! Yay!
 Which means the problem must be in the amp section or connector, hrm... Okay no idea what to do now! Check jack I guess is step one...

 Edit: Commenting about how it sounds this is really embarrassing; My main DAC is Apogee Duet which I love and bought a Mac because I love the Duet so much! Even this virgin unburnt in Compass, I'm loving the sound of the DAC with Moon... And the Duet is what $500 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That's way impressive I was sure compared to Duet I'd be disappointed or at least convince myself I was because I am so fan-ish for Duet! This is one nice souding piece of gear. Wow._

 

Like I wrote earlier : 

 Check the wires that connect the DAC Board and HP amp and see if any wires have snapped off.. in the same way check if any wires connecting the HP amp board and headphone socket have snapped off..

 If everything is fine there.. then its the jack I guess.. 

 BTW glad you already like the Compass !!


----------



## Damian

Hm, okay this is strange... I just tried using at as preamp alone and and... I'm getting sound out of both channels! So the issue must be... Between the DAC and amp?

 All wires appear to be attached...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Damian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm, okay this is strange... I just tried using at as preamp alone and and... I'm getting sound out of both channels! So the issue must be... Between the DAC and amp?

 All wires appear to be attached..._

 

Ok I just asked Kingwa about your problem and he feels :

 1, the DAC board connect to HP board one signal wire break. If he try preamp can work well, this is no matter in here.
 2,The HP board output to HP socket one wire break. If he try preamp output can work well, this is very sure break one wire.
 3, the HP jack can't right into to HP socket.

 I will figure out what exactly it means, in the meantime you have a read of it too..


----------



## Damian

Actually, I think I've figured it out...

 Where the amp section connects to the HP socket, the wire for the right channel must be loose... So DAC -> Preamp works, but not DAC -> Amp. Hm, I just am not really sure how the Preamp and HP amp sections are different or where they connect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks for all the help by the way!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Damian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, I think I've figured it out...

 Where the amp section connects to the HP socket, the wire for the right channel must be loose... So DAC -> Preamp works, but not DAC -> Amp. Hm, I just am not really sure how the Preamp and HP amp sections are different or where they connect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for all the help by the way!_

 

Why dont you email Kingwa.. he already knows about your problem, he can send you the board pics with where what should be connected and then check for yourself..


----------



## GoodRevrnd

Anyone notice the consignment page reverted to October of last year?


----------



## sandchak

Yes I saw that myself, and it also says " Sorry, Ms Chong on holiday, delivery notice can not upgrade."..

 EDIT - well its been corrected now..


----------



## Hottuna_

My compass has arrived.
 Came in the box. Very well packed. No physical damage that i can see. The external build is excellent. Nice and solid.
 First thing i did was remove the foam from the top of the Earth. The internals are certainly very impressive. I was wondering how in the world did all this cost me just USD258.

 Plugged everything and fired it up.
 USB and Optical working fine.
 Can't get Coax to work but i think it is a setting issue on my soundcard.
 Will fiddle around a little bit more during the weekend.
 Running it on optical now. Sounding very nice with both my HD650 and K701.
 The bright+earth mode certainly lifts the darkish veil from the HD650.
 Will try the moon sometime.

 I would like to thank all who contributed to make this happen.
 Anyway time to kick back and enjoy the music.


----------



## squall343

look like audio gd have not ship international for the last few days

http://www.audio-gd.com/consignment.htm


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_look like audio gd have not ship international for the last few days

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1_

 

I think they only ship international on Monday and Thursday. It's somewhere on the Compass page of their website.


----------



## Olev

Update on my situation... It's not even in the customs, the customs of Estonia is waiting for some techincal advisory because the device has no CE badge on it and they are not sure it is allowed to be used in the EU


----------



## gilency

I just sent payment for my Compass. How do you follow-up on your order status?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just sent payment for my Compass. How do you follow-up on your order status?_

 

First thing write to Audio Gd and tell them you made the payment for Compass (mention the amount), following which they will send you a confirmation..


----------



## denon5000

I have run my Compass (which arrived in a DHL bag with damaged corners) both via Coaxial and USB inputs and the sound coming from my Headphones sounds okay. Okay as not in good or bad but that the internal circuits of the Compass seem to be okay and undamaged. I tested all three OpAmp's that I received and they were all okay. I have yet to test the Optical but do not see any reason to worry about that at the present moment. Is there any portion of the circuit that I might not be testing for when I do the above and if so could some directions be provided on how to do a complete test of the Compass? Thanks.


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First thing write to Audio Gd and tell them you made the payment for Compass (mention the amount), following which they will send you a confirmation.._

 

Just got an email notifying me they received payment. He told me also that the DHL problems have been solved. Hopefully he will let me know when it ships along with the tracking number for DHL. Really looking forward to it! I just finished connecting an old power pc g4 with a large external drive with all my music in apple losseles format to my hi-fi system. All I need right now is the DAC.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Ah I see you are a fellow BB storm user Gilency!


----------



## mbd2884

Just WOW, it's a complete different sound. My addiction to music listening worsened!

 I'm using the USB Audio drivers Windows XP version, not ASIO4All. The difference is so dramatic and I can't describe other than to suggest try the demo version. I'm not exaggerating, this isn't OldBlueyez trying to convince you by throwing $300 at copper strands your music will sound better, the difference is very apparent. 

 Hardware Driver > EMulation!
 Most noticeable for me are the high notes and the separation of sound. 

 Would be interested to see if anyone else will try and discover their Compass sounding dramatically different.

http://usb-audio.com/ Try the demo, has an annoying beep every 30 seconds, but let's you decide whether you like the change or believe it to be better.

 People have had mixed experiences with these drivers, but they work seamlessly with the PCM2707, Burr Brown and it's very nice.

 So my setup now is USB-Audio Drivers > Media Monkey > Otachan Plugin > HD650/AD900.

 To test difference is with Franz Schmidt's Symphony No. 4 and TALPA/Schpongle today.


----------



## squall343

certainly better is all sense

 but those driver costs 44 euro


----------



## Drosera

I actually tried to install this two months ago, and just couldn't get the installer to work. Perhaps there's incompatibility with XP x64?

 Also, Schoenberg wrote a Symphony?? News to me.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_certainly better is all sense

 but those driver costs 44 euro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I agree. But for those who are always looking for that edge in their sound, it's far cheaper than buying a new headphones or new cables.

 Plus the source is most important in your line of music, so it may be worth it to a few. If anything, just try the demo and see if you hear the difference also.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. But for those who are always looking for that edge in their sound, it's far cheaper than buying a new headphones or new cables.

 Plus the source is most important in your line of music, so it may be worth it to a few. If anything, just try the demo and see if you hear the difference also._

 

definitely..i just uninstalled the Asio4all after i got my hand on the usb asio audio retail version 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the difference between both is rather huge that i think everyone can hear it unless they are deaf

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually tried to install this two months ago, and just couldn't get the installer to work. Perhaps there's incompatibility with XP x64?

 Also, Schoenberg wrote a Symphony?? News to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Try their win xp 64bit version
http://www.usb-audio.com/usb_asio_win64.zip


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_definitely..i just uninstalled the Asio4all after i got my hand on the usb asio audio retail version 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the difference between both is rather huge that i think everyone can hear it unless they are deaf_

 

Difference is alarming isn't it? All USB DAC's should come with ASIO drivers or someone should develop one so people don't have to pay huge sums for them anymore. It's like hearing the Compass and being amazed for the first time again.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, Schoenberg wrote a Symphony?? News to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmm yeah it's Franz Schmidt, thought Schmidt was the conductor, just beginning to listen to Classical,


----------



## Skibumef

Someone made a comment recently that Kingwa had told them that the Amp section was superior to the DAC. I was under the impression that it was the reverse.

 I know that these simplistic comparisons and value judgements are reductive and lacking, but play along for a sec- which section of the Compass is superior? I was under the impression from the earlier days of this thread that much more attention was paid to the DAC section, but maybe I'm wrong.

 How about if I put it this way? Which would you buy first to supplement the Compass? A new DAC, or a new Amp? I'm not looking to buy anything (I haven't even gotten my compass yet!), I am just very curious about this issue, and would like to know if I had the wrong impression.

 Thanks!


----------



## mbd2884

Why does it matter? If you are just looking for a DAC or just an Amp then I suggest you look at their other offerings. It just doesn't make sense to pay all that money when you are paying for a combo if you just want a DAC or just an Amp. 

 I think Kingwa's point is that so many people are disregarding the Compass Amp because it is a combo, and thinking it should be bought for the DAC and Amp is just an extra. He's trying to emphasize that the Amp is legit, it's a real headphone amp that should be compared other headphone Amps.

 Here are some pics. The Amp alone is about 3 times the size of your little bit-amp. And one capacitor from the DAC is almost the same size.


----------



## Skibumef

Oh no, sorry if I was unclear. I'm not buying anything, I have already purchased a Compass. I just wanted to clear up my [mis]conceptions about the quality/performance of the Compass' DAC section vs. its amp. I had gotten the impression from reading this thread since the design phase that the DAC was superior, and when I read someone saying the reverse I got thrown off, and am now thoroughly confused and looking for a little solid ground on the matter.


----------



## mbd2884

As I said, I think Kingwa's point is that the Compass Amp should not be thought of as an addition, bonus to the DAC, but rather a complete, headphone amp that can be compared to other full sized headphone amps.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Someone made a comment recently that Kingwa had told them that the Amp section was superior to the DAC. I was under the impression that it was the reverse.

 I know that these simplistic comparisons and value judgements are reductive and lacking, but play along for a sec- which section of the Compass is superior? I was under the impression from the earlier days of this thread that much more attention was paid to the DAC section, but maybe I'm wrong.

 How about if I put it this way? Which would you buy first to supplement the Compass? A new DAC, or a new Amp? I'm not looking to buy anything (I haven't even gotten my compass yet!), I am just very curious about this issue, and would like to know if I had the wrong impression.

 Thanks!_

 

It all started before the release of Compass when Kingwa said that the amp section had outperformed his expectations.. after that it has been different for different people, although I hear the amp being the prize in Compass more often.


----------



## Skibumef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I said, I think Kingwa's point is that the Compass Amp should not be thought of as an addition, bonus to the DAC, but rather a complete, headphone amp that can be compared to other full sized headphone amps._

 

Good point, I guess this sort of discussion would support that mode of thinking, that is, that one section of the Compass is somehow expendable or not as thorough as the other. While this has been the case with other combos, I understand how the Compass challenges this trend with two high quality, good value sections.

 I never meant to imply that the amp was not nearly as good as the DAC. I am delighted to hear from more and more reviewers that this is simply not the case.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good point, I guess this sort of discussion would support that mode of thinking, that is, that one section of the Compass is somehow expendable or not as thorough as the other. While this has been the case with other combos, I understand how the Compass challenges this trend with two high quality, good value sections.

 I never meant to imply that the amp was not nearly as good as the DAC. I am delighted to hear from more and more reviewers that this is simply not the case._

 

What will be more interesting is if you decide to try the hardware USB ASIO drivers and compare them to the emulated ASIO4All and hear the dramatic improvement as I have.


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah I see you are a fellow BB storm user Gilency! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yeah...running .122 version hybrid 5.1. and very happy except for the occassional crash with Pandora ( not with Slacker)


----------



## Skibumef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What will be more interesting is if you decide to try the hardware USB ASIO drivers and compare them to the emulated ASIO4All and hear the dramatic improvement as I have._

 

Those are only for Windows users, correct? I am a Mac user. Would there be any improvement by replacing my Mac's built-in USB drivers?


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those are only for Windows users, correct? I am a Mac user. Would there be any improvement by replacing my Mac's built-in USB drivers?_

 

Long time Head-Fi member, Elefant used them for Mac I believe and said he thought it was better than optical out.

Demo ASIO driver for USB soundcards

 I don't know how to setup a Mac with it though. I know they have tesedt these drivers on Macs though.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh no, sorry if I was unclear. I'm not buying anything, I have already purchased a Compass. I just wanted to clear up my [mis]conceptions about the quality/performance of the Compass' DAC section vs. its amp. I had gotten the impression from reading this thread since the design phase that the DAC was superior, and when I read someone saying the reverse I got thrown off, and am now thoroughly confused and looking for a little solid ground on the matter._

 


 I'll put it this way (and this is based on my own impressions, not any science or anything -ha)...

 Vs. the Zero, which was my first DAC and my first SS amp:
 the Compass DAC is noticeably better, but not in a different league, from the Zero DAC. But the Amp on the Compass THOROUGHLY trounces the amp on the Zero - completely different category - not even a fair comparison.

 SO - the Zero, which was really known as a DAC first, had an ok amp as a "bonus" (my words)... the Compass is a great DAC AND a great amp. For some recordings it approaches or even bests my Little Dot (again not exactly a fair comparison - tube vs SS - but I think the point is clear).


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Long time Head-Fi member, Elefant used them for Mac I believe and said he thought it was better than optical out.

Demo ASIO driver for USB soundcards

 I don't know how to setup a Mac with it though. I know they have tesedt these drivers on Macs though._

 

In my experience, the optical out has always been better on my Macs. It could just be me, but after 4 different macs (all pro tower models) I've always gotten weird interference with USB. 

 Of course, besides that, I have a LOT od 24/96 stuff, so I feel I cheat myself using USB


----------



## Sganzerla

* Off Topic*

 I can hear the bips but no music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Does someone know what it can be, I tried to read all over the website for what could be but found nothing.

 Has anyone tried CPlay to play flac and wav files? Its interface is 10x worse than Foobar but the sound is better than any other player I tried. Too bad it doesn't play mp3.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In my experience, the optical out has always been better on my Macs. It could just be me, but after 4 different macs (all pro tower models) I've always gotten weird interference with USB. 

 Of course, besides that, I have a LOT od 24/96 stuff, so I feel I cheat myself using USB 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Not really. Show me one album that was actually RECORDED at 24/96. Not mastered or produced.

 There isn't any professional microphone used that records at 96 khz, but rather around 30 khz, which is well below the 16 bit, 44.1 khz.

 So there should be no difference, pretty much the same argument of using $500 cables instead of $50 ones.

 Either way, doesn't seem you tried an actual ASIO USB driver either, which is what I had linked.

 Also noticed, I tried the Foobar2K with the new drivers. The difference in superiority of Otachan's plugin and using Fraunhoffer's decoder instead of Foobar's is even more apparent. It just sounds much better on Media Monkey in my setup, at least to me. There is no longer any confusion or question in my mind.


----------



## ScottieB

That's ridiculous... I can DEFINITELY hear a difference between 24/96 DVD-A and the same recording on CD. MOST albums are recorded, mixed and mastered at 24/96, then downsampled to their final output format.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's ridiculous... I can DEFINITELY hear a difference between 24/96 DVD-A and the same recording on CD. MOST albums are recorded, mixed and mastered at 24/96, then downsampled to their final output format._

 

Show me this. I have yet to read of any studio that RECORDS their music at 24/96, rather it's just been mastered at that. Show me a microphone that can record at 96 Khz, or above 44.1 Khz. Prove to me you can even hear above let's say just 21 Khz. Mastering and mixing are far different from audio playback for listening.

 Either way, you hear the difference great. All that means to me is that it's your head, not necessarily the music itself. Sound Audio is so subjective, no offense, I hardly believe anyone's impressions anymore. People's hearing are so affected by what they think should hear rather than what they actually hear.

 For the USB DAC driver, yeah, it's my head. Threw it out there to see if anyone else enjoys it more than the ASIO4All.


----------



## ScottieB

Right, so explain why I should listen to YOU? You love to state your opinion like it is fact. I WORK in post production (TV) - I sit in on recording sessions, for TV commercials, and even THOSE are recorded at 24/96. Just because you've never read about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've seen it with my own eyes.

 But you've got one thing right - the ONLY way to know is to hear it for yourself - the impressions of others are always - not even just for audio - to be taken with a grain (or a large spoonful) of salt.


----------



## mbd2884

FACT: 16 Bit/ 44.1 Khz is well above the human hearing ability.

 Fact: You can't hear the full capability of 24 bit / 96 Khz.

 Fact: There aren't any microphones that can record the full 24 bit / 96 Khz. They are stuck around 30 Khz. 

 There you go, there is plenty of reason to believe using 16 bit / 44.1 Khz is beyond what you can hear already. Having 24/96 for studio is a great way for the industry to make more money, as they know people will perceive things that don't exist, just because they want to.


----------



## ScottieB

You're also not factoring in the 24 bit thing - 24 bit recording allows for better dynamic range - allows for better reproduction of the dynamics of things like string instruments and vocals, and allows for the better reproduction of low volume sounds that approach the noise floor of any system. 

 Sorry to beat this dead horse - some people, though, just never change.


----------



## mbd2884

24 bit because you can't fit 96 Khz into 16 bit.

 Rofl, it's not that complicated. Your ears can't hear bits, only frequencies, amplitudes of the sound waves... The dynamic range of most music does not come close to the extra 48 dB in 24 bit, so there is no point other than marketing. The dynamic range of 16 bit is already 96 dB and most you will likely hear in a recording is 60 dB.

 Either way, my point was still about using the USB Asio drivers compared to the stock drivers or normal ASIO4all. Whether you have superhuman hearing is an entirely different point.


----------



## ScottieB

Yeah... but there's also 24-bit 44.1 khz recordings and 24-bit 48khz recordings... those sampling rates fit perfectly fine in 16-bit, no? You're right, it isn't that complicated, and I certainly don't need lessons from you.


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah whatever, apology for side tracking this thread. One thing to note for those other interested, there aren't even speakers or DAC's that can play back 144 dB range of 24 bit music. 

 But pointing back again, you haven't tried the USB ASIO drivers, so you really can't say if the USB was that inferior to your optical yet. And will check thread back later to see if anyone else has success with the ASIO hardware drivers compared to the emulated ASIO4All.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll put it this way (and this is based on my own impressions, not any science or anything -ha)...

 Vs. the Zero, which was my first DAC and my first SS amp:
 the Compass DAC is noticeably better, but not in a different league, from the Zero DAC. But the Amp on the Compass THOROUGHLY trounces the amp on the Zero - completely different category - not even a fair comparison.

 SO - the Zero, which was really known as a DAC first, had an ok amp as a "bonus" (my words)... the Compass is a great DAC AND a great amp. For some recordings it approaches or even bests my Little Dot (again not exactly a fair comparison - tube vs SS - but I think the point is clear)._

 

Agree on all this. I would add that I think the amp in the Compass beats the LD MK V. Certainly feels like it has a ton more Cojones(Gain). Botton end is definitely there over the LD MKV. Scottie, you promised me a Grado Comparision!

 .


----------



## ScottieB

Les, I know it! Remind me what I'm comparing - 225s to 325s? I said a little something about it in the 325 owner's thread - need a bit more time though... haven't had much chance the last few days. 

 Sorry for OT.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FACT: 16 Bit/ 44.1 Khz is well above the human hearing ability.

 Fact: You can't hear the full capability of 24 bit / 96 Khz.

 Fact: There aren't any microphones that can record the full 24 bit / 96 Khz. They are stuck around 30 Khz. 

 There you go, there is plenty of reason to believe using 16 bit / 44.1 Khz is beyond what you can hear already. Having 24/96 for studio is a great way for the industry to make more money, as they know people will perceive things that don't exist, just because they want to._

 

You do realize that those numbers have nothing to do with hearing frequencies don't you?????

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Les, I know it! Remind me what I'm comparing - 225s to 325s? I said a little something about it in the 325 owner's thread - need a bit more time though... haven't had much chance the last few days. 

 Sorry for OT._

 

10-4

 .


----------



## tim3320070

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah whatever, apology for side tracking this thread. One thing to note for those other interested, there aren't even speakers or DAC's that can play back 144 dB range of 24 bit music. 

 But pointing back again, you haven't tried the USB ASIO drivers, so you really can't say if the USB was that inferior to your optical yet. And will check thread back later to see if anyone else has success with the ASIO hardware drivers compared to the emulated ASIO4All._

 

Probably a dumb question.............this USB driver applies to XP, not Vista, correct?


----------



## Starguard

Can you guys shut up?

 This thread is about the Compass.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you guys shut up?

 This thread is about the Compass._

 

LOL...agreed......

 Here's something cool I just got (email notice) from Chesky

 "04.15.2009
 For Immediate Release
 Chesky Records 192 kHz/24-bit WAV 1-to-1 Masters

 Chesky Records introduces the 192 kHz/24-bit series. These are not limited editions but one-to-one copies of our master 192 kHz/24-bit tapes. These are standard 192 kHz/24-bit WAV files that you can burn onto your computer's hard drive and then play back on any device that will support 192 kHz/24-bit. These discs will NOT play on DVD-audio players, CD players, and SACD players. These discs contain up to 4.7 GB of music each on a Gold DVD-R.

 This is a major breakthrough for us in sound quality. The one-to-one masters off a good computer system sound more like analog than any other digital source we have used. You will hear more air, tonal purity, resolution, and a much richer, deeper, and wider soundstage.
 David Chesky"


 Kinda backs up what Scottie was saying....(not that I doubted him at all).

 Obviously 24/192 is not the norm but 24/96 for most operations these days certainly is.

 Peete.


 PS I'm digging through the code and registry settings for the USB driver trying to see if I can disable that damned 30 second beep. Not that it's legal but I'd like to hear one song without it (at least). God damn stupid idea adding this annoyance to a trial driver. Allow use for 24 hours or a few days then have it disable but don't watermark the playback with this kind of crap. Which is why I'm trying to defeat it (if I can) without resorting to a less than legal means.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But pointing back again, you haven't tried the USB ASIO drivers, so you really can't say if the USB was that inferior to your optical yet. And will check thread back later to see if anyone else has success with the ASIO hardware drivers compared to the emulated ASIO4All._

 

No, I haven't. I said that in my past experience, I learned that for whatever reason, many macs seem to have interference issues (not just the ones I have owned). I got similar (but not the same) interference using the mac's built-in sound card (the 1/8" - non-optical headphone jack). So from now on I will use optical with my mac. 

 Which is neither here nor there, since most of my hi-fi listening is done on my PC. The mac is my work machine.

 For anyone still curious, I'm back to the Sun (v2 this time) in the Compass, and liking it as much as I ever did in the Zero. It has maybe 150-200 hours on it. Honestly though I don't know that I can say I PREFER it - I like variety, which makes the easily switchable opamp (and easily removable lid) of the compass that much more of a joy! The sun is more "fun" to me and I like it a lot with rock and electronic (like hip hop or dance) music. My tastes, however, are kinda crazy eclectic.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Looks like this driver and the X-Fi don't get get along.....I'm disabling the Prelude card to see if I can get a clean install. I did look at the list of supported cards (no X-Fi support may be the reason why I'm having a crash and reboot on install with the Prelude enabled).

 It buggered up my Prelude driver install so I might as well wipe the device from the system and try that way.

 If I have no luck after that then to hell with it and I'll look for what I mentioned.

 Has anyone else run into this prob using an I-Fi card and XP Pro SP3 ?

 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

I tried USB-Audio ASIO program a while ago but it just gave my vista computer like 25 BSoD's in one day without giving me any audio except for the stupid beep. I'd appreciate it if others with XP (if you got Vista, you might go through hell just like me) could try out USB-Audio, I've heard that ASIO4ALL isn't that great (lots of people say native drivers sound better).


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL...agreed......

 Here's something cool I just got (email notice) from Chesky

 "04.15.2009
 For Immediate Release
 Chesky Records 192 kHz/24-bit WAV 1-to-1 Masters

 Chesky Records introduces the 192 kHz/24-bit series. These are not limited editions but one-to-one copies of our master 192 kHz/24-bit tapes. These are standard 192 kHz/24-bit WAV files that you can burn onto your computer's hard drive and then play back on any device that will support 192 kHz/24-bit. These discs will NOT play on DVD-audio players, CD players, and SACD players. These discs contain up to 4.7 GB of music each on a Gold DVD-R.

 This is a major breakthrough for us in sound quality. The one-to-one masters off a good computer system sound more like analog than any other digital source we have used. You will hear more air, tonal purity, resolution, and a much richer, deeper, and wider soundstage.
 David Chesky"


 Kinda backs up what Scottie was saying....(not that I doubted him at all).

 Obviously 24/192 is not the norm but 24/96 for most operations these days certainly is.

 Peete.


 PS I'm digging through the code and registry settings for the USB driver trying to see if I can disable that damned 30 second beep. Not that it's legal but I'd like to hear one song without it (at least). God damn stupid idea adding this annoyance to a trial driver. Allow use for 24 hours or a few days then have it disable but don't watermark the playback with this kind of crap. Which is why I'm trying to defeat it (if I can) without resorting to a less than legal means._

 

Reference Recordings have a Line of these also.

 Very Nice!


----------



## coredump

So I've had my LittleDotIII connected to the DAC_out on the Compass and my AudioEngine A2 speakers connected to the out on my LDIII. I had it like that for 2 days and it worked fine. Today I found that my A2s are dead. No power. There's no way I killed the speakers with my Compass right? The LDIII is fine and I've had the A2s connected to it for about 1 year without issues.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've had my LittleDotIII connected to the DAC_out on the Compass and my AudioEngine A2 speakers connected to the out on my LDIII. I had it like that for 2 days and it worked fine. Today I found that my A2s are dead. No power. There's no way I killed the speakers with my Compass right? The LDIII is fine and I've had the A2s connected to it for about 1 year without issues._

 

The Compass was not connected to the spkrs, ehhh? So I wouldn't be looking there.

 See if there is an internal or external fuse on the spkrs. Unplug them for a couple hours. Make sure you have power to the wall switch obviously.

 .


----------



## coredump

I realise it's a stretch but I figure it's the only change I've made. I've tried different outlets but nothin. I popped the back off as well and no fuse.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Update......the USB driver pack called Vista/XP 32 is Vista only...the XP driver pack (Win 98SE/ 2000/XP) is the one that installs for XP Pro SP3 and the like.

 I find this driver no better than the Prelude version in fact it's not as good IMO as the X-Fi based ASIO...usb or no. My findings at least.

 Back to installing the Prelude stuff now....

 Peete.


----------



## GoodRevrnd

I have an X-Fi (on Vista 64), so using coax for gaming is non-negotiable. However, might it be advisable/beneficial to hook the Compass up via coax AND USB, and just flip it to USB for Foobar use?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've had my LittleDotIII connected to the DAC_out on the Compass and my AudioEngine A2 speakers connected to the out on my LDIII. I had it like that for 2 days and it worked fine. Today I found that my A2s are dead. No power. There's no way I killed the speakers with my Compass right? The LDIII is fine and I've had the A2s connected to it for about 1 year without issues._

 

Check MK III power and driver tubes, make sure you haven't got I/O mixed up somewhere. Make sure you have the toggles set right on the Compass and finally check your power cables to the A2's etc....might be something simple, might be something complex. Hard to say for sure.

 Super switch engaged or not ? It should be for pure DAC out mode.

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check MK III power and driver tubes, make sure you haven't got I/O mixed up somewhere. Make sure you have the toggles set right on the Compass and finally check your power cables to the A2's etc....might be something simple, might be something complex. Hard to say for sure.

 Super switch engaged or not ? It should be for pure DAC out mode.

 Peete._

 

Said he wasn't powering up though.


 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

What else can I suggest Les without being there ? The obvious thing to do is check the individual components for function and narrow down what the issue is......if the A2's are toast it might simply be coincidence or might be something else. Tripped breaker, fried internal fuse (of the A2 amp) who knows for absolute sure. If the A2's are not powering up than check the mains cable being used, the wall wart (if that is the case) the strip/outlet it's plugged into....etc etc...Hopefully it's something simple....

 Peete.


----------



## beltway

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried USB-Audio ASIO program a while ago but it just gave my vista computer like 25 BSoD's in one day without giving me any audio except for the stupid beep. I'd appreciate it if others with XP (if you got Vista, you might go through hell just like me) could try out USB-Audio, I've heard that ASIO4ALL isn't that great (lots of people say native drivers sound better)._

 

Coincidentally, I decided to try the Ploytec USB-Audio for Vista (v2.8.7 beta) yesterday. No BSODs as haloxt reported but I can definitely confirm no audio with the Compass and a 'demo' beep every 30 secs.

 On a different subject, has anyone with the Sun HDAM noticed one of the four green LEDs flickering or going out completely? I saw some flickering and held a small piece of paper between two of the LEDs that face each other so the light from the opposite LED didn't interfere - sure enough one was out. Later, I heard some crackling/static through the 'phones and noticed the same LED flickering randomly, staying on for a second or two then off, etc. It stayed on for a couple days and now it's off again.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've had my LittleDotIII connected to the DAC_out on the Compass and my AudioEngine A2 speakers connected to the out on my LDIII. I had it like that for 2 days and it worked fine. Today I found that my A2s are dead. No power. There's no way I killed the speakers with my Compass right? The LDIII is fine and I've had the A2s connected to it for about 1 year without issues._

 

Since you said you had the box open. Check the boards for something discolored.

 .


----------



## Zanth

Today I listened to the Compass after having it powered on for 48 hours. I played some Radiohead, some k-os and some Karajan conducting the Berlin Phil playing some Beethoven...gosh this sounds nice through the RS-2's. Incredible dynamics, a non-fatiguing sound, articulation is wonderful. I'm having a hard time thinking of anything that cost me under $300 USD that has had such a dramatic effect on sound. 

 The amp section is awesome no doubt, and the DAC section with its tweaks (jumpers) and options (Earth, Moon and Sun) make this a really versatile piece of kit. I'm completely thrilled by the experience and I can honestly say that unless I'm disturbed by someone who needs to talk to me, my phone are on my head the entire time I'm at work. And I work a lot.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Cool beans Zanth...it gets smoother and more articulate as you get the hours piled up on it...the SS and detailing, frequency extension all take time to mature and refine...better SQ is yet to come.

 Peete.


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What else can I suggest Les without being there ? The obvious thing to do is check the individual components for function and narrow down what the issue is......if the A2's are toast it might simply be coincidence or might be something else. Tripped breaker, fried internal fuse (of the A2 amp) who knows for absolute sure. If the A2's are not powering up than check the mains cable being used, the wall wart (if that is the case) the strip/outlet it's plugged into....etc etc...Hopefully it's something simple....

 Peete._

 

Perhaps it's a fuse I can't see. I've pulled the back panel and much of the internals are sealed inside another enclosure. Anyway I don't want to get off topic I just wanted to make sure it couldn't be the way I connected the Compass since I'll probably be getting some new monitors. I wouldn't want to make the same mistake twice.

 In regards to the Compass I'm really liking it. I'll give it a few more days and post my thoughts. So far it's a bigger improvement over the Zero than I expected.


----------



## les_garten

Zanth,
 Heard ya the first time!

 Anybody who doesn't buy one of these will kick themselves later when the price goes up.

 .


----------



## Zanth

Yes indeed, the cost is insanely cheap. Anyone who isn't biting now will feel quite inept later when they pull the plug. 

 If this were made in any Western country this unit would easily cost 1200-1500. Seriously.


----------



## gilency

ha ha ha. Zanth. Seriously, I heard you the first time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I ordered mine this morning. Good to know you guys think is worth it!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *beltway* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Coincidentally, I decided to try the Ploytec USB-Audio for Vista (v2.8.7 beta) yesterday. No BSODs as haloxt reported but I can definitely confirm no audio with the Compass and a 'demo' beep every 30 secs.

 On a different subject, has anyone with the Sun HDAM noticed one of the four green LEDs flickering or going out completely? I saw some flickering and held a small piece of paper between two of the LEDs that face each other so the light from the opposite LED didn't interfere - sure enough one was out. Later, I heard some crackling/static through the 'phones and noticed the same LED flickering randomly, staying on for a second or two then off, etc. It stayed on for a couple days and now it's off again._

 

I wonder if a cold solder joint is causing this intermittent activity ? 

 If your not DIY inclined I'd contact Kingwa and talk about what it's doing. If you are DIY inclined and are very good with a soldering iron...well, check the solder points on either side of the module using a very good magnifying glass. If you see any dull solder joints, micro cracks (in the solder joints) etc you need to re flow those joints with the iron. That should solve the issue. Another possibility is a stray piece of solder missed during clean up causing a short...or a LED is going bad or is bad....too many variables to list without having it in front of me. If you see stray bits of solder gently remove them with a toothpick or some other device with a point on it. Never work on it with it powered up ...thought I say that even if you wouldn't normally do that.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is the issue isolated to one channel ? Check the pin spread of the HDAM and how tight it fits in the DIP8 socket...It may not be getting good contact with the socket. Gently bend the pins outward (not much) just enough to give it a good friction fit with the DIP8 socket.

 That's about all I can think of other than making sure you have the HDAM installed correctly (meaning the crescent facing the proper direction).

 Peete.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool beans Zanth...it gets smoother and more articulate as you get the hours piled up on it...the SS and detailing, frequency extension all take time to mature and refine...better SQ is yet to come.

 Peete._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Zanth,
 Heard ya the first time!

 Anybody who doesn't buy one of these will kick themselves later when the price goes up.

 ._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes indeed, the cost is insanely cheap. Anyone who isn't biting now will feel quite inept later when they pull the plug. 

 If this were made in any Western country this unit would easily cost 1200-1500. Seriously._

 


 Man, you guys are killing me. I wonder when the replacements are shipping...


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man, you guys are killing me. I wonder when the replacements are shipping..._

 

x2


----------



## driftingbunnies

x3


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes indeed, the cost is insanely cheap. Anyone who isn't biting now will feel quite inept later when they pull the plug. 

 If this were made in any Western country this unit would easily cost 1200-1500. Seriously._

 

Ok I'm convinced, I broke down and placed an order (by EMS). Now the wait begins....


----------



## dBs

Nothing like peer pressure huh? XD Cmon! All the cool kids are doing it!


----------



## oldschool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just WOW, it's a complete different sound. My addiction to music listening worsened!

 I'm using the USB Audio drivers Windows XP version, not ASIO4All. The difference is so dramatic and I can't describe other than to suggest try the demo version. I'm not exaggerating, this isn't OldBlueyez trying to convince you by throwing $300 at copper strands your music will sound better, the difference is very apparent. 

 Hardware Driver > EMulation!
 Most noticeable for me are the high notes and the separation of sound. 

 Would be interested to see if anyone else will try and discover their Compass sounding dramatically different.

USB 2 Audio - the low latency experience Try the demo, has an annoying beep every 30 seconds, but let's you decide whether you like the change or believe it to be better.

 People have had mixed experiences with these drivers, but they work seamlessly with the PCM2707, Burr Brown and it's very nice.

 So my setup now is USB-Audio Drivers > Media Monkey > Otachan Plugin > HD650/AD900.

 To test difference is with Franz Schmidt's Symphony No. 4 and TALPA/Schpongle today._

 

Does this work with USB connection only?

 What would be better: using this with USB Compass, or connecting my onboard audio with TOSLINK Out to the Compass?


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but do any of you guys have any thoughts about the Panther from Audio GD? I may be in the market for getting a power amp after the compass arrives, but I cant decide whether to pick up something like a secondhand NAD or something like the Panther. 

 For the money the Panther would cost, there is probably quite a lot of choice of power amps.

 Thanks for any input guys


----------



## yepyep_

Alright, Compass + moon/sun arrived. Packed perfectly, got everything I ordered. Two thumbs up!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this is a little off topic, but do any of you guys have any thoughts about the Panther from Audio GD? I may be in the market for getting a power amp after the compass arrives, but I cant decide whether to pick up something like a secondhand NAD or something like the Panther. 

 For the money the Panther would cost, there is probably quite a lot of choice of power amps.

 Thanks for any input guys_

 

Well, panther is something I don't think anyone of of us have heard, going by the looks and the specs it seems to be a little beast, Audio GD says its an upgraded version of their S1 amp, I have one of their amps, its a higher end than Panther, but I am thoroughly enjoying them, on the other hand NADs are also good stuffs and priced very well.. If honestly, it depends on your needs and maybe you should wait for some reviews of Panther when it starts rolling out..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yepyep_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, Compass + moon/sun arrived. Packed perfectly, got everything I ordered. Two thumbs up!_

 

Thats welcome news !! do share with us about your initial impressions..


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Update......the USB driver pack called Vista/XP 32 is Vista only...the XP driver pack (Win 98SE/ 2000/XP) is the one that installs for XP Pro SP3 and the like.

 I find this driver no better than the Prelude version in fact it's not as good IMO as the X-Fi based ASIO...usb or no. My findings at least.

 Back to installing the Prelude stuff now....

 Peete._

 

Yeah I'd suspect that. But did you try it for the Compass directly? That's why I posted that, as the Compass doesn't have any hardware drivers specifically. I do not suspect that this driver would be a replacement for other ASIO hardware drivers. 

 And for those having problems, remember, there are 3 different drivers for PC. One is for Windows 2000/XP. Vista Beta ONLY. Windows XP 64 ONLY.

 There are two for Macs. OS X, and OS 9.

 If you do install the wrong version for PC, you will get blue screen of death, I made that mistake as on their website the Vista says Vista/XP. No that's just Vista ONLY. This is pertinent to the Compass as if you want HARDWARE ASIO for your Compass, then this is the only way I have found to work so far. If anyone finds something different please post! Remember ASIO4All is an emulation for unsupported ASIO hardware, which is not the same.

 Also important, if you use these drivers, means you have to use ASIO supported media player. A non-ASIO supported like JetAudio won't be compatible. If you want to use JetAudio will have to use the default usb.sys drivers from Windows. So you will still have to use ASIO plugins for your Foobar, Media Monkey, WinAmp etc.


----------



## gavszero

Would it be possible for someone with the know how to start a new tread about Audio GD DAC's only ? I'm not really a head fi person as I prefer to listen through speakers and all of that would be off topic in here . There are a few member's here that own a few different Audio GD DAC's and would like to read more about those units .. I'm pretty sure this tread would interest some that are mainly after a DAC only .


----------



## Currawong

*mbd2884*: That driver you linked is only for specific devices, not every USB device. Installed in Mac OS X, for example, it doesn't show any devices connected at all, which means it isn't being used, which means it will have no effect whatsoever with a Compass.

*Gavszero*: There's a thread on the Reference 1. You could always start your own thread on them if you wanted.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would it be possible for someone with the know how to start a new tread about Audio GD DAC's only ? I'm not really a head fi person as I prefer to listen through speakers and all of that would be off topic in here . There are a few member's here that own a few different Audio GD DAC's and would like to read more about those units .. I'm pretty sure this tread would interest some that are mainly after a DAC only .




_

 

And another one apart from REF1 which Curra just mentioned, for Audio GD DAC 3SE :

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/aud...rrival-396715/


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*mbd2884*: That driver you linked is only for specific devices, not every USB device. Installed in Mac OS X, for example, it doesn't show any devices connected at all, which means it isn't being used, which means it will have no effect whatsoever with a Compass._

 

I don't have a Mac so not sure how that would work. 

 But it works perfect with Windows XP, and the result is just unbelievable. I think with Mac users it's not that big of an issue since you all have your optical output.

 But for PC Laptop users, I still think USB is the way to go and these drivers are amazing compared to the ASIO4All option. For Windows XP, it even recognizes that Compass has the PCM2707, which is great.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But it works perfect with Windows XP, and the result is just unbelievable. I think with Mac users it's not that big of an issue since you all have your optical output.

 But for PC Laptop users, I still think USB is the way to go and these drivers are amazing compared to the ASIO4All option. For Windows XP, it even recognizes that Compass has the PCM2707, which is great._

 

Same here (now that I've managed to get it working), so it's not device-specific at all. And it does seem to be a truly huge upgrade in quality. Much bigger than going from ordinary USB to ASIO4All even.


----------



## Starguard

USB or Optical?

 Those are my options. XFi soundcard. 

 Which will sound better? I don't understand all this stuff about ASIO4ALL drivers and whatnot...


----------



## Mystere

Hey guys,
 I was looking for a dac/amp combo to connect to my pc that would drive my K601's and be able to hook up my powered pc speakers to and just received the Ibasso D10. So far I am happy with it and am surprised how good this little device sounds. I came across the compass here and didn't realize you could get a desktop amp like this for around the same price as the D10. I'm wondering if the compass would be a better option for me since the portability of the D10 isn't a necessity but a nice option. Just wondering if anyone has heard both or how much an upgrade it would be over the D10. The D10 has a 14 day no questions asked return policy so any input you could give would be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## Currawong

mbd: I'm daft, I've got it working now. Hard to say if it's much of an upgrade in Mac OS X. It wont output better than 48kHz though, whereas the default Mac OS X driver ouputs at up to 96kHz, though this only matters for people like me with high-res downloads. More surprising was how good the Compass sounds with the Sun module in it, even compared to my Northstar and Reference 1.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_USB or Optical?

 Those are my options. XFi soundcard. 

 Which will sound better? I don't understand all this stuff about ASIO4ALL drivers and whatnot..._

 

Well with an xfi you won't need ASIO4ALL as creative has its own ASIO driver, native to its cards. As for which will sound better, the only way to truly know is to try them both. Personally I use coax from my xfi...


----------



## driftingbunnies

strange. did anybody get an email from cherry to try to get the damaged package back so you could take pictures of it? this is what i got from her.

 Please call your local DHL and ask for the package.

 We will send you a new compass next week after you accept the package.And you don’t need to ship it back to us,and just keep it.

 Besides,could you please take photos for the package ,the tracking number ,the damage?

 Best regards.

 Cherry


----------



## gilency

I ordered my Compass yesterday morning. I doubt Kingwa was able to send it thursday since I did not receive shipment confirmation.


----------



## oldschool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered my Compass yesterday morning. I doubt Kingwa was able to send it thursday since I did not receive shipment confirmation._

 

I paid mine 10 days ago, so take a deep breath and be patient


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 strange. did anybody get an email from cherry to try to get the damaged package back so you could take pictures of it? this is what i got from her.

 Please call your local DHL and ask for the package.

 We will send you a new compass next week after you accept the package.And you don’t need to ship it back to us,and just keep it.

 Besides,could you please take photos for the package ,the tracking number ,the damage?

 Best regards.

 Cherry_

 

Are you serious? Per the website itself it says to REJECT the package. Why on earth would you now have to try and get the package from DHL? Something is not right here.


----------



## driftingbunnies

yeah i don't know. it was strange cuz i had already rejected it. Maybe they don't get all the money back if it was sent back to them. I don't know. I had already rejected it so dhl said once i reject it, I can't go and get it back.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you serious? Per the website itself it says to REJECT the package. Why on earth would you now have to try and get the package from DHL? Something is not right here._

 

IIRC, the instructions on the website were put up prior to Kingwa's post here, in which he said that it would not be necessary to return the damaged Compasses. Could it be that DHL charges the shipper for the costs of return shipping of rejected goods? If that is the case, then it makes complete sense for the recipient to accept it, since Kingwa has no use for a broken Compass...


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 strange. did anybody get an email from cherry to try to get the damaged package back so you could take pictures of it? this is what i got from her.

 Please call your local DHL and ask for the package.

 We will send you a new compass next week after you accept the package.And you don’t need to ship it back to us,and just keep it.

 Besides,could you please take photos for the package ,the tracking number ,the damage?

 Best regards.

 Cherry_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you serious? Per the website itself it says to REJECT the package. Why on earth would you now have to try and get the package from DHL? Something is not right here._

 

You could mail them for confirmation about this, but I'm guessing that plans have changed. I'm guessing that they now need the photographic evidence of the damaged packages for a claim or a lawsuit against DHL to get compensation for the damage they caused.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IIRC, the instructions on the website were put up prior to Kingwa's post here, in which he said that it would not be necessary to return the damaged Compasses. Could it be that DHL charges the shipper for the costs of return shipping of rejected goods? If that is the case, then it makes complete sense for the recipient to accept it, since Kingwa has no use for a broken Compass..._

 

Pulled directly from Kingwa's post:

 3, If you have refused to accept the Compass package that came in a plastic bag, we will ship a new Compass to you as soon as possible.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/aud...ml#post5606987


----------



## ScottieB

Yeah but now that they know where the problem was, and they have resolved to replace all compasses, and not even ask for them to be returned, they probably need proof of the damage in order to be compensated. The easiest way for everyone is to just get it delivered and take some pics. Yes, it is contradictory to what has been said, but it makes sense... the original message to reject was to ensure that you weren't stuck with a brick before they were able to figure things out and come to a settlement/agreement with DHL (or whoever).

 Regardless (or as people say in my neck of the - woods? - Irregardless) - things will work out - Kingwa will fix it one way or another - but getting the documentation will help him recoup losses.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pulled directly from Kingwa's post:

 3, If you have refused to accept the Compass package that came in a plastic bag, we will ship a new Compass to you as soon as possible.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/aud...ml#post5606987_

 

I don't read that to mean that you MUST refuse in order to get the new Compass. I read it that (a) if you refused you will get a new compass, and (b) if you accepted, you will get a new compass if the damage is heavy and cannot be repaired. Under neither circumstance will you have to send the broken one back.

 Given Kingwa's instructions, if it were me, I would ALWAYS accept the package. Think about it, if you accept, you will most likely end up with two compasses, a working and a damaged one (which is clearly worth _something_, if only for spare parts). If you reject, you will only end up with one working one...


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 strange. did anybody get an email from cherry to try to get the damaged package back so you could take pictures of it? this is what i got from her.

 Please call your local DHL and ask for the package.

 We will send you a new compass next week after you accept the package.And you don’t need to ship it back to us,and just keep it.

 Besides,could you please take photos for the package ,the tracking number ,the damage?

 Best regards.

 Cherry_

 

I got it too. Too early to call DHL right now, but will see what happens.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could mail them for confirmation about this, but I'm guessing that plans have changed. I'm guessing that they now need the photographic evidence of the damaged packages for a claim or a lawsuit against DHL to get compensation for the damage they caused._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah but now that they know where the problem was, and they have resolved to replace all compasses, and not even ask for them to be returned, they probably need proof of the damage in order to be compensated. The easiest way for everyone is to just get it delivered and take some pics. Yes, it is contradictory to what has been said, but it makes sense... the original message to reject was to ensure that you weren't stuck with a brick before they were able to figure things out and come to a settlement/agreement with DHL (or whoever).

 Regardless (or as people say in my neck of the - woods? - Irregardless) - things will work out - Kingwa will fix it one way or another - but getting the documentation will help him recoup losses._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't read that to mean that you MUST refuse in order to get the new Compass. I read it that (a) if you refused you will get a new compass, and (b) if you accepted, you will get a new compass if the damage is heavy and cannot be repaired. Under neither circumstance will you have to send the broken one back.

 Given Kingwa's instructions, if it were me, I would ALWAYS accept the package. Think about it, if you accept, you will most likely end up with two compasses, a working and a damaged one (which is clearly worth _something_, if only for spare parts). If you reject, you will only end up with one working one..._

 

I see your points. My apologies for jumping to conclusions. All along I kept kicking myself for accepting the package and now it turns out that was the best course of action in light of these new instructions. I hope everyone who rejected them are able to pick them up or have them delivered again.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see your points. My apologies for jumping to conclusions. All along I kept kicking myself for accepting the package and now it turns out that was the best course of action in light of these new instructions. I hope everyone who rejected them are able to pick them up or have them delivered again._

 

Well there is one more thing, it may happen once you accept the package, it might be just cosmetic damage and no damage to the functioning of Compass, in this case Kingwa will have to send you only the chassis.

 Taking into consideration that Kingwa will not be getting much compensation or any kind of compensation, I think he trusts buyers words on the kind of damage the compass has gone through.

 So that can be something we need to keep in mind.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_USB or Optical?

 Those are my options. XFi soundcard. 

 Which will sound better? I don't understand all this stuff about ASIO4ALL drivers and whatnot..._

 

Why don't you try the Coaxial output from X-Fi and then try to output it directly from your USB to Compass and see which you like.

 There really isn't any reason you need the X-Fi for music listening. I would just use the X-Fi for when you are gaming or watching movies.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well there is one more thing, it may happen once you accept the package, it might be just cosmetic damage and no damage to the functioning of Compass, in this case Kingwa will have to send you only the chassis._

 

True, though in that case you will still end up with one undamaged compass. So you are no worse off than if you rejected, except that a little DIY may be required. Still seems to me like the smart money is on accepting the package.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_True, though in that case you will still end up with one undamaged compass. So you are no worse off than if you rejected, except that a little DIY may be required. Still seems to me like the smart money is on accepting the package._

 

I agree, in this way if your Compass only has cosmetic damage, you can start listening to Compass, and wait for the new Chassis to arrive, and if its a damaged Compass, then you have a damaged Compass to use as spares for the new Compass coming in soon.

*EDIT - I asked Kingwa what should be done, he says, if buyers want's they can collect the package from DHL, because to receive any compensations from DHL, he might need the pictures of the damaged Compass + the package (DHL bag) + the tracking number.
 BUT he has left it to the decision of the buyers, if you wish to ignore collecting the package - he will do as he said - If its damaged you get new one, if its cosmetically damaged he will ship new plates, if you don't accept the package he will ship a new one..

 So I guess he has left it upto buyers to decide whether to collect the package or not.*


----------



## Chu

I don't know about anyone else, but my DHL status is way behind reality. Kingwa might thing that these are still sitting in some warehouse when they are already on their way back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I rejected mine 2 days ago, and just this morning the status changed.


----------



## edselfordfong

Just called DHL. They said that its still in their storage facility and hasn't gone back to China. They would redeliver it on monday, but the whole thing is vastly more complicated because I'll be out of town for three weeks. I don't want to risk them by rerouting them to northern CA (not NorCal, thank you) where I'll be for 3 weeks.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't read that to mean that you MUST refuse in order to get the new Compass. I read it that (a) if you refused you will get a new compass, and (b) if you accepted, you will get a new compass if the damage is heavy and cannot be repaired. Under neither circumstance will you have to send the broken one back.

 Given Kingwa's instructions, if it were me, I would ALWAYS accept the package. Think about it, if you accept, you will most likely end up with two compasses, a working and a damaged one (which is clearly worth _something_, if only for spare parts). If you reject, you will only end up with one working one..._

 

I agree thats a better strategy. But this is the email I had got from Cherry :

 If your unit shows up in a DHL bag or badly mangled box, it's either been tampered with by Customs or has sustained major handling damage (or both). Refuse the shipment and contact us immediately and explain the reason why you refused the shipment. If you have a camera on hand at the time of delivery ask the driver to let you document the damage with a pix before he takes it back.

 If it comes in a bag reject it, thats the only way I could interpret it and I bet the others did it the same way.

 Anyways, I just called up DHL customer service and seems its lying in local warehouse. So the customer service has put in a request for a Monday delivery. Lets see.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well with an xfi you won't need ASIO4ALL as creative has its own ASIO driver, native to its cards. As for which will sound better, the only way to truly know is to try them both. Personally I use coax from my xfi..._

 

Yep. I use Coax from my Auzen X-Fi to the Compass. I haven't tried USB or Toslink but I find the sound amazing using coax.

 My sound card does have a driver for ASIO, but I still use ASIO4ALL. Not sure I am losing SQ by not using the proprietary. Thoughts?


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mystere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys,
 I was looking for a dac/amp combo to connect to my pc that would drive my K601's and be able to hook up my powered pc speakers to and just received the Ibasso D10. So far I am happy with it and am surprised how good this little device sounds. I came across the compass here and didn't realize you could get a desktop amp like this for around the same price as the D10. I'm wondering if the compass would be a better option for me since the portability of the D10 isn't a necessity but a nice option. Just wondering if anyone has heard both or how much an upgrade it would be over the D10. The D10 has a 14 day no questions asked return policy so any input you could give would be appreciated. Thanks._

 


 I have both and will compare them tonight, if I remember.
 I predict that the compass will be superior, by far, which is why I only use the D10 as a portable.
 There should be several people posting on this thread with both amps.


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep. I use Coax from my Auzen X-Fi to the Compass. I haven't tried USB or Toslink but I find the sound amazing using coax.

 My sound card does have a driver for ASIO, but I still use ASIO4ALL. Not sure I am losing SQ by not using the proprietary. Thoughts?_

 

My first choice would be to use the native ASIO drivers for the sound card and use coax or optical out from it.

 If you don't have any native ASIO-driver it sounds like a good idea to try a generic ASIO-driver and USB. Then you have two different options; the free one or the trial version of the commercial product.

 Remember that it is important to use a ASIO-driver instead of Windows own sound driver (if you run Windows).


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree thats a better strategy. But this is the email I had got from Cherry :_

 

That looks like a cut and paste from the website. Did you get that e-mail before or after Kingwa posted his instructions in the thread?


----------



## Starguard

My XFi card doesn't have a COAX out. 


 I'll go with toslink just because of interference from USB. I'll test both and see how it goes.


----------



## direcow

anybody with vista tried comparing against WASAPI?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here (now that I've managed to get it working), so it's not device-specific at all. And it does seem to be a truly huge upgrade in quality. Much bigger than going from ordinary USB to ASIO4All even._

 

I got it to work but I did not find it a major leap in SQ over the Prelude SC ASIO driver. I guess that means the Auzen ASIO driver is pretty good...

 Peete.


----------



## Mystere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have both and will compare them tonight, if I remember.
 I predict that the compass will be superior, by far, which is why I only use the D10 as a portable.
 There should be several people posting on this thread with both amps._

 

wdoerr,
 I would really appreciate it if you could do that. Using the d10 over usb on my pc vs the onboard sound doesn't seem that much of a difference. Same thing using d10 over optical on my cd player vs using headphone out on it. Thanks.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got it to work but I did not find it a major leap in SQ over the Prelude SC ASIO driver. I guess that means the Auzen ASIO driver is pretty good...

 Peete._

 

Which in turn explains why you were always quite satisfied with the digital output of your computer.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got it to work but I did not find it a major leap in SQ over the Prelude SC ASIO driver. I guess that means the Auzen ASIO driver is pretty good...

 Peete._

 

Pete is your Auzen card an xfi? I always thought they licensed other technology - but do they make their own drivers or use the creative ones? Either way I was not too impressed with ASIO4ALL but it could be a good alternative for cards without native drivers. 

 Did you get it to work by somehow bypassing the licensing "beep" you mentioned the other day?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Scottie,

 The Auzen is X-Fi based as you surmise but I believe Auzen tweaks the drivers a little although the ASIO driver clearly labeled Creative in the properties panel. Either way I found the SPDIF out (using a nice COAX cable) gives me the best SQ using the Auzen ASIO driver.

 I went over the .ini , .dll and .inf files of the USB package and had no luck finding anything concrete.

 I wasn't expecting something easy. I bet they have it well guarded. I'll see what I can find out today on it.

 Peete.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That looks like a cut and paste from the website. Did you get that e-mail before or after Kingwa posted his instructions in the thread?_

 

After. I remember reading the website instructions before going to sleep Monday night, didn't receive the email then. Saw the emails Tue morning. In fact she sent me 3 emails in the following order.

 April 13, 2009 11:39:17 PM GMT-07:00

 Dear Sarath,
 If you haven't received your package,please refuse to accept it.
 Best regards.
 Cherry

 Date: April 14, 2009 12:10:52 AM GMT-07:00

 Dear Sarath,
 If your unit shows up in a DHL bag or badly mangled box, it's either been tampered with by Customs or has sustained major handling damage (or both). Refuse the shipment and contact us immediately and explain the reason why you refused the shipment. If you have a camera on hand at the time of delivery ask the driver to let you document the damage with a pix before he takes it back.
 Best regards,
 Cherry

 Date: April 14, 2009 1:11:43 AM GMT-07:00

 Dear Sarath,
 If your unit shows up in a bag or badly mangled box, it's either been tampered with by Customs or has sustained major handling damage (or both). Refuse the package and contact us immediately and explain the reason why you refused the package. If you have a camera on hand at the time of delivery ask the driver to let you proof the damage with a pix before he takes it back.
 If the package is a box and looks fine,then you can accept it.
 Best regards.
 Cherry

 Anyway, no issues. I might go to the DHL warehouse today and pick it up. So that I have the weekend to play with it, instead of waiting till Monday for them to deliver.


----------



## cynan

I was originally going to order a Compass and be done with it (at least for a while anyway). However, reviews of the DAC19SE have me interested in the upcoming DAC19MK3.

 First, I will be using the DAC about 50% of the time with my hi-fi system and the other half of the time with headphonesA few people seem to pick the C2C as the obvious Amp choice for the DAC19. However, I'm attracted to the preamp function on the Compass for use with hi-fi. Also, I do not see a need for XLR balanced inputs on a headphone amp in my near future. Add to this the fact that the Compass has its own DAC section and it is clearly a value leader - plus a nice little semi-portable all-in-one package. 

 The above, plus the fact that Kingwa himself indicated that the Amp section on the Compass was about 80% as good as the C2C, and I am wondering whether the DAC19MK3 + Compass is not a smarter buy than DAC19MK3 + C2C for someone who will not be using the setup with headphones a 100% of the time. 

 My only concern with the Compass is whether or not I will loose a significant amount of the DAC upgrade with the DAC19 over the Compass when listening to headphones when using the Compass as an Amp in Super mode, vs using a C2C...

 I am trying to wait until the DAC19MK3 comes out before purchasing anything to hopefully get an indication of actual performance, but my resolve is wearing thin. Ergo rambling posts such as these..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

That's a tough call cynan. Anything further up the food chain from the C-2C that has preamp output is double the cost of the DAC19Mk3 and would be served with a better source (CAST/balanced outs).

 The only thing I can say for certain is the DAC upgrade is definitely worth the money spent. As for the Compass.....you have little choice for a combo can amp/preamp from Audio-gd so I say go for the 19MK3/Compass combo and see if it suits your needs adequately. 


 Peete.


----------



## tim3320070

I think you would be better served getting a decent used preamp like a Rotel or higher end Adcom with headphone out than buying the compass only for the amp.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tim3320070* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you would be better served getting a decent used preamp like a Rotel or higher end Adcom with headphone out than buying the compass only for the amp._

 

But he also needs the headphone functionality.....

 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got it to work but I did not find it a major leap in SQ over the Prelude SC ASIO driver. I guess that means the Auzen ASIO driver is pretty good...

 Peete._

 

Which means you are using your Prelude as the DAC rather than the Compass then. There aren't any ASIO drivers for the Compass by default, so for that to work, well, your Prelude is the one accepting the ASIO feed first, processed then sent to your Compass. Isn't that redundant?


----------



## ttv

Received mine here in Finland today... ...in a box 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Seems a bang for the buck, it really is build like a tank and to my non audiophile ear sounds very good with my k701's. I have no good sound references (like Heed Canamp ect.) but it's way better then my C-moy or my crappy laptop sound card, or my Cambrigde Audio Azur 540R. 

 It's almost dead silent with the 9db gain with full volume and no music, and I can only go to 50% volume with the 9db gain when listening...

 One minus though, the power source(I assume) seems to be making a quite a noise, an "electrical" hum is a best way of describing it, just like some old transformers, is this normal? I mean this is coming from the unit when you listen it with you bare ears from lets say 20-30cm away with no ambient noise, the headphone line though is dead silent which is the excellent!

 Also one minor scratch was covered by a black permanent marker in the front panel(one can tell when looking at the "cover" from a right angle in right kind of light), but an average Joe probably would not notice this, and I'm totally OK with it, considering the price, and knowing how easily painted aluminum scratches...

 Few *PICS*

 ps. The customer service from Audio-gd was the best I have basically gotten from anywhere ever! I'm certainly going to recommend their products to my peers, and anyone interested...


----------



## ScottieB

Hey TTV, nice pics! I'm always so amazed when I see how CLEAN and TIDY everyone's listening spaces seem to be. Man I'm a slob! HA! Enjoy - it gets even better!


----------



## Canuck57

Excellent photography ttv!


----------



## gilency

I want mine!


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I want mine!_

 

me too!


----------



## Zanth

Welcome to Head-fi TTV! Sorry about your wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Excellent pics and I agree, wonderfully built unit, excellent sound and absolutely incredible customer service. Seriously I would need to be present in the same city to get better customer service from someone.

 I have been listening to the Moon/Soft 2 combo here at work for the past week and I have to say, there is excellent detail and sparkle, moving up the chain to Earth/Neutral may be too detailed for me but may provide a tad more snap and bunch to the sound...going to test that out this coming week.


----------



## ttv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey TTV, nice pics! I'm always so amazed when I see how CLEAN and TIDY everyone's listening spaces seem to be. Man I'm a slob! HA! Enjoy - it gets even better!_

 

Those pics are totally not from my listening place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 those are taken in my living room table and my kitchen table, the only picture worthy places that my wife keeps clean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, my "work" room table is so cluttered with stuff(un finished projects ect.) that I would not take a picture from it


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those pics are totally not from my listening place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 those are taken in my living room table and my kitchen table, the only picture worthy places that my wife keeps clean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, my "work" room table is so cluttered with stuff(un finished projects ect.) that I would not take a picture from it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ahh... I see then... hehe, guess I'd do the same thing!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received mine here in Finland today... ...in a box 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seems a bang for the buck, it really is build like a tank and to my non audiophile ear sounds very good with my k701's. I have no good sound references (like Heed Canamp ect.) but it's way better then my C-moy or my crappy laptop sound card, or my Cambrigde Audio Azur 540R. 

 It's almost dead silent with the 9db gain with full volume and no music, and I can only go to 50% volume with the 9db gain when listening...

 One minus though, the power source(I assume) seems to be making a quite a noise, an "electrical" hum is a best way of describing it, just like some old transformers, is this normal? I mean this is coming from the unit when you listen it with you bare ears from lets say 20-30cm away with no ambient noise, the headphone line though is dead silent which is the excellent!

 Also one minor scratch was covered by a black permanent marker in the front panel(one can tell when looking at the "cover" from a right angle in right kind of light), but an average Joe probably would not notice this, and I'm totally OK with it, considering the price, and knowing how easily painted aluminum scratches...

 Few *PICS*

 ps. The customer service from Audio-gd was the best I have basically gotten from anywhere ever! I'm certainly going to recommend their products to my peers, and anyone interested..._

 

Welcome to head-fi! And excellent photography skills!

 Reports about the hum seem to vary and might have more to do with how clean the power from the electricity mains is in your house than it does with the Compass. Try out different sockets throughout the house to see if that makes a difference.


----------



## ttv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reports about the hum seem to vary and might have more to do with how clean the power from the electricity mains is in your house than it does with the Compass. Try out different sockets throughout the house to see if that makes a difference._

 

Note that the hum is not in the actual headphone line, so there's no interference in the actual sound at all when listening trough the headphones, but the unit is emitting the sound, the case is humming so to say... just like some hight voltage transformers or old TV:'s and stuff when you listen them very close, but this is no big deal as the actual sound source is the most silent I have ever heard...


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Note that the hum is not in the actual headphone line, so there's no interference in the actual sound at all when listening trough the headphones, but the unit is emitting the sound, the case is humming so to say... just like some hight voltage transformers or old TV:'s and stuff when you listen them very close, but this is no big deal as the actual sound source is the most silent I have ever heard..._

 

Damn. My Compass has a low, but very soft hum, gotta put my ear to the case to hear. But that's it. Meaning I can't hear it just sitting by it, have to get real close.


----------



## sandchak

Lovely pics ttv, perfect settings.. no wonder you noticed the minor scratch on Compass..my table is always in such a mess I cant even find my Compass sometimes !!..


----------



## tim3320070

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But he also needs the headphone functionality.....

 Peete._

 

I said with head out- I had an Adcom 565 pre that sound very nice from the head out with Senn 595 and K701.
 I meant that a lot of higher end preamps have more than adequate headphone outs and will run the rest of the system.


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I'd suspect that. But did you try it for the Compass directly? That's why I posted that, as the Compass doesn't have any hardware drivers specifically. I do not suspect that this driver would be a replacement for other ASIO hardware drivers. 

 And for those having problems, remember, there are 3 different drivers for PC. One is for Windows 2000/XP. Vista Beta ONLY. Windows XP 64 ONLY.

 There are two for Macs. OS X, and OS 9.

 If you do install the wrong version for PC, you will get blue screen of death, I made that mistake as on their website the Vista says Vista/XP. No that's just Vista ONLY. This is pertinent to the Compass as if you want HARDWARE ASIO for your Compass, then this is the only way I have found to work so far. If anyone finds something different please post! Remember ASIO4All is an emulation for unsupported ASIO hardware, which is not the same.

 Also important, if you use these drivers, means you have to use ASIO supported media player. A non-ASIO supported like JetAudio won't be compatible. If you want to use JetAudio will have to use the default usb.sys drivers from Windows. So you will still have to use ASIO plugins for your Foobar, Media Monkey, WinAmp etc._

 

MBD,
 All I can say is thank you very much
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also was using Media Monkey and ASIO4ALL with my Compass and tired the demo version of this ASIO USB driver last night. It only took about 15 mins of A/B comparisons on a few of my favorite songs before I had the credit card out to purchase the full version so that I could get rid of the annoying every 30 sec beeping.

 This is well worth the price for those trying to get by on ASIO4ALL, it really is much better sounding and more stable to boot. I had no problem at all installing this on a very old Dell Laptop running XP pro. And Media Monkey will let me switch back and forth between the two outputs to compare.

 As to the Compass. All I can say is I am thrilled with my Compass and Dennon D2000's with partial Mark L mods. I am currently burning in the Moon OPA, about 200 hrs so far. I put about 500 hrs on the Earth first. Not sure which I prefer, but the Moon sounds great at the moment, I just love that great sound stage. Also for the first time I can easily tell the difference in sound quality between my 320 bps AAC files and my FLAC files, and between good recordings and not so good recordings. In fact I can hardly stand to listen to my portable now, I have been so spoiled by the Compass/Dennon combo.

 Even my wife is so impressed with the Compass she gave me the thumbs up for a Panther 2 ch amp as soon as the funds are available, so that we have the option to listen together when desired. 

 Thanks again to Audio GD and this forum group for bringing such a great product to market, I am sure it will be a best seller for a long time to come.

 Mark


----------



## mbd2884

Sweet, nice to know your Wife likes your hobby also. My g/f is not a fan as she thinks I spend too much time listening to music. But sometimes when I am away for a bit and come back, I catch her listening also


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which means you are using your Prelude as the DAC rather than the Compass then. There aren't any ASIO drivers for the Compass by default, so for that to work, well, your Prelude is the one accepting the ASIO feed first, processed then sent to your Compass. Isn't that redundant?_

 

There is just no end to the misinformation/BS you enjoy putting out.

 Lets see, yesterday you said you can only hear 21 Khz, so 96 khz and 192 khz sampling rates are useless.

 Today, you're saying that there is a Digital to analog conversion being done before you send the digital signal out? I guess it gets converted back to digital and then goes out the COAX?? 

 Digital >> Analog >> Digital >> COAX SPDIF Out??

 You got any proof of that?

 EDIT: I didn't think so!



 .


----------



## haloxt

Some soundcards like the X-fi can output coax and optical into the compass dac/amp, it's a digital signal just like usb from the computer. As for the good results from USB-Audio, that's very interesting, just need someone with vista to show me and sandchak and other vista users how to get it to work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And the question about WASAPI vs. ASIO, they're all about the same, but I slightly prefer ASIO, but maybe USB-Audio ASIO is far superior to WASAPI, I can't tell cuz I can't get hte program to work :[.


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sweet, nice to know your Wife likes your hobby also. My g/f is not a fan as she thinks I spend too much time listening to music. But sometimes when I am away for a bit and come back, I catch her listening also 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 My wife thought I was nuts at first to be spending this kind of money on a head phone rig, but she went along and even bought me the Dennons for my birthday. Now I catch her listening to it all the time, in fact we sometimes have to decide who's turn it is to listen, hence the need for the Panther. 

 She's also impatient for me to get all of her music ripped onto the hard drive so she can here some of her favorites with the Compass. Of course my music came first, but now I am ripping her CD's.

 All in all I could not be happier.

 Mark


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some soundcards like the X-fi can output coax and optical into the compass dac/amp, it's a digital signal just like usb from the computer. As for the good results from USB-Audio, that's very interesting, just need someone with vista to show me and sandchak and other vista users how to get it to work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And the question about WASAPI vs. ASIO, they're all about the same, but I slightly prefer ASIO, but maybe USB-Audio ASIO is far superior to WASAPI, I can't tell cuz I can't get hte program to work :[._

 

Hmmm so it's just pure data like from the USB? 

 Just skeptical of thinking the information traveling throughout the soundcard and somehow not being processed at all. 

 Would be curious about the WASAPI myself as the next computer probably will have Windows 7, which I suspect will use that also. But then I may just turn this laptop into a pure music machine


----------



## cyberidd

Ok, please excuse my ignorance, but I have no idea what X-Fi, Media Monkey, ASIO4ALL, USB ASIO or any of this other stuff is, what it does, how it works, etc. All I know is I have an XP computer and a Compass on the way. Is there an all ^ that stuff for dummies guide or something that could get me up to speed?


----------



## haloxt

mbd2884, yep, pure digital signal. I personally don't like my HT omega claro halo's optical though, very flat vs. usb, possibly because of hidden digital sound processing from quirky soundcard software.

 cyberidd, X-fi is a soundcard. This can help you setup ASIO if you want to and you can use it with your onboard soundcard before the compass arrives, if your computer isn't from the stone ages I recommend mediamonkey+otachan: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/aud...ml#post5477711


----------



## mbd2884

The Xi-Fi is a chip from Creative. Meaning anything that uses their technology gets the X-Fi label. Supposedly their new revolutionary technology for better sound, better than their Audigy 2. Which same thing anything used that get's Audigy 2 slapped on top.

 Creative licenses their technology to be used by Auzentech. Auzentech uses X-Fi technology, hence the name Auzentech Prelude X-Fi.

 Haloxt explained that the Auzentech can be used purely as a transport for the digital signal from computer to be sent to the Compass by it's Coaxial or opitcla output.

 All music on your computer and on CDs are digital, just zeros and ones. Your headphones cannot play music with a digital signal. That has to be converted to Analog.

 Your Compass has a Digital Analog Converter. So the idea is to send the data, the 0s and 1s from your computer straight to the Compass without any changes. The Windows XP operating system, hmm there are diagrams, and not an expert. But it gets changed through it's direct sound output. Reason, this allows Windows to output multiple sound tracks and to be played at the same time. So you can hear music, OS warnings, flash video, or listen to music and game all at the same time. That is the inherent kMixer of Windows operating system which has latency issues.

 For some, they just want the music pure. They use ASIO which is technology from Steinberg bypasses the kMixer and is a very low latency solution. This was developed for studio use mostly. Allows the music to be sent directly to the hardware, the music remains unchanged, it's "bit perfect."

 Wasabi which is only for Windows Vista does something similar. Allows for direct signal to be sent to an external hardware or even the hardware. Not sure which sounds better ASIO or WASABI.

 Now even though the ASIO 2.0 technology is now open source few companies use it. Like the Compass. Compass has to use the default USB Audio drivers from Windows. And then use ASIO4All which is software emulation for ASIO unsupported hardware.

 My post from USB-Audio allows for an actual ASIO driver for the Compass so we don't need to depend on software emulation anymore. The driver will install a commerical driver for the Burr Brown PCM 2707 DAC, which is the Compass's USB input.

 That was an amateur description, can get more info if you research.

  Quote:


 cyberidd, X-fi is a soundcard. This can help you setup ASIO if you want to and you can use it with your onboard soundcard before the compass arrives, if your computer isn't from the stone ages I recommend mediamonkey+otachan: The Audio-gd Compass (Was: Designing an alternative to the Zero DAC/amp) 
 

Agreed on Media Monkey and Otachan. Now that I am using the USB ASIO driver, the difference between Media Monkey + Otachan and Foobar2000 is even more apparent. Foobar2000's cymbals and treble sound sibilant and unnatural in comparison, the difference is very obvious to me. And it sounds veiled also. ROFL, Foobar has veil not my HD650s!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which means you are using your Prelude as the DAC rather than the Compass then. There aren't any ASIO drivers for the Compass by default, so for that to work, well, your Prelude is the one accepting the ASIO feed first, processed then sent to your Compass. Isn't that redundant?_

 

Um no. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Um no. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Yeah was explained to me by Haloxt, although just having it run through your soundcard makes me wonder something must be happening in there. But then you said it sounds awesome, no matter, was just curious.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah was explained to me by Haloxt, although just having it run through your soundcard makes me wonder something must be happening in there. But then you said it sounds awesome, no matter, was just curious._

 


 Boy, you sure thought you knew what you were talking about though, didn't ya!!

 Two days in a row!

 What else ya got!

 .


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*
Gavszero: There's a thread on the Reference 1. You could always start your own thread on them if you wanted.*_*
*
*


Thanks Curra will check out the tread ...*


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And another one apart from REF1 which Curra just mentioned, for Audio GD DAC 3SE :

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/aud...rrival-396715/_

 

I was considering the DAC 19MK3 till I can afford the REF1 .. But anyway bit off topic here .. Thanks for the link ..


----------



## les_garten

I never thought I would use the Super button. But I have to admit it is invaluable for A/B comparisons with another DAC. You Hook up the second DAC in the Line IN and hit Super to switch between the two DACs. Brilliant! Thanks Kingwa, good idea there.

 .


----------



## Zanth

So you can test two DACs or test two amps? Very very cool.


----------



## sarathcpt

Got my 'bagged' compass from the DHL warehouse which I had refused to accept couple of days before. Following damages :

 1). Preamp ON /OFF knob switch is broken. I found the knob inside the compass , seems it was smashed in. So the inside connection also is broken. 

 2) The input selecting dial is loose and it just rotates and can be removed easily. I can see a crack inside the dial.

 2). Slight Cosmetic damage on the corners and the input selector.

 3). I found two other metal pieces inside the compass, I don't know what those are.

 4). The volume control knob is bent. Nothing serious, feels like it moves in and out when it rotates.

 Have emailed Kingwa with the pics. Haven't tried powering it up. Can I try it eventhough the pre-amp switch is broken , since I am just using DAC and HP amp ? Also, I have never used an optical fibre cable before. How do I connect the cable that came with compass to the Macbook pro, it doesn't seem to fit to the headphone jack as it is. Is there some adapter ? Also it doesn't seem to go in in the compass side as well.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you can test two DACs or test two amps? Very very cool._

 


 2 DACs. You hook up the second dac and punch the Super button to go back and forth sending them to the Compass Headamp. The Beauty is it's instantaneous. Slight difference in gain maybe, depending on the 2nd DAC.

 .


----------



## Zanth

You can also test two amps by using the preamp output.


----------



## gilency

Whi did you accept the package? I wouldn't have.
 You need a tosslink adapter for toss to mini, they are like 3-4.00 but hard to find in local stores. Il ooked in Radio Shack and they did not even know they existed. You can buy them on line (amazon.com) or buy a fiberoptic cable with toss link in one side and mini on the other, also on amazon (like 20.00 or so)


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can also test two amps by using the preamp output._

 

I understand that. I meant it's so nice not having to stop and switch wires.

 .


----------



## Currawong

sarathcpt: The headphone socket of the MacBook Pro also doubles as a mini-optical jack. You can get a mini-optical to Toslink adaptor for $2 from many places that allows you to plug it in. Otherwise, just use USB.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sarathcpt: The headphone socket of the MacBook Pro also doubles as a mini-optical jack. You can get a mini-optical to Toslink adaptor for $2 from many places that allows you to plug it in. Otherwise, just use USB._

 

Thanks guys. I will get the adapter. I had to accept the package because Cherry told me so today, seems they have to document the damages.

 Meanwhile, I tried using the USB input. No sound (checked the OPA and everything). So since the Preamp switch is broken , does that mean the connection between the DAC & HP amp is also open? I mean putting the Preamp switch to OFF connects the DAC and the HP amp..is it how the connection is wired ? Since in my case there is no switch both the DAC to HP AMP and DAC to Pre amp connection might be open..? Waiting for Kingwa's answer on that...any inputs from here also appreciated.


----------



## Currawong

sarathcpt: I think the preamp switch just switches between the headphone socket and the RCA jacks at the back. Are you sure the Super button at the front is off? If the switch is busted, however, then you wont get sound output except through the DAC in super mode I'm guessing.


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I understand that. I meant it's so nice not having to stop and switch wires.

 ._

 

Anyway, to sum it is possible to audit both external DACs and amplifiers. 

 First we have the normal mode;
 Compass DAC-->Compass amp

 Then we have the super mode where we can do this;
 Compass DAC-->Line Out on Compass-->External headphone amplifier
 OR
 External DAC-->Line In on Compass-->Compass amplifier

 ----
 On top of that we have the possibility to use the pre amp out socket on the Compass and send a signal to an external power amplifier that then drives speakers instead of headphones.
 ---

 BTW, some newer members seem to have problems understanding the difference between a fixed line level output and a variable level output.

 A fixed level output is used to send the signal to a device that has it's own volume control to regulate the level, i.e. a pre amplifier or integrated amplifier.

 A variable level output takes a signal that already has been through a pre amplifier and volume control and sends it to a device that doesn't have any any own volume control, i.e. a power amplifier.

 There are some weird devices that can fall inbetween these two categories, like power amplifiers with a passive volume control. But to me the basic pronciple is that if the external device has its own volume control you should feed it with a line feed. If it doesn't then you should feed it with a variable output feed.

 Hope I haven't increased the confusion with this


----------



## Hottuna_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then we have the super mode where we can do this;
 Compass DAC-->Line Out on Compass-->External headphone amplifier
 OR
 External DAC-->Line In on Compass-->Compass amplifier_

 

The nice thing about super mode is you don't need to choose one or the other of those options. You can do both simultaneously. Just did it on mine.


----------



## ExtraNice

Is it easy to switch between ASIO and Window's DirectSound?

 And will I need Otachan if I use the commercial ASIO solution?


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hottuna_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The nice thing about super mode is you don't need to choose one or the other of those options. You can do both simultaneously. Just did it on mine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 


 That's true! One more plus for the Compass.


----------



## Patu

My friend ordered Compass a while ago and received it shortly after it. Now he was kind enough to borrow it for me. After one day... I'm blown away. I've been mostly using the DAC-section in my speaker setup and it performs amazingly well. Compared to AudioNemesis, basses have more slam and punch, sound is livelier and more detailed. Headphone amp section is very good also. I quickly compared it to Lehmann and I think I slightly prefer Lehmann for now but I have to do more comparisons. Amazing performance for $258 unit. 

 Any thoughts of DAC200? It interests me even more.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it easy to switch between ASIO and Window's DirectSound?

 And will I need Otachan if I use the commercial ASIO solution?_

 

u mean the media monkey?

 yes..it is easy to switch..just use the option

 and yes you still need otachan for the asio out dll

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any thoughts of DAC200? It interests me even more._

 

I quote from Kingwa
 "DAC200 sound like Compass but has a bit upgrade and less digital sound."

 I guess if u need the usb input, i would recommend u jump straight to dac19 mk3


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it easy to switch between ASIO and Window's DirectSound?

 And will I need Otachan if I use the commercial ASIO solution?_

 

Otachan is just a plugin as are the Foobar and WinAmp versions. They are just interfaces that connect the player to the ASIO drivers. ASIO4All as said before is just an emulation, it isn't real, it's not real ASIO.

 Otachan, while sounds the best, and works the best, it just does the simple things automatically, does not let you access control panel of ASIO driver. You can select which ASIO drivers, if you have both drivers for your Compass or other hardware or ASIO4All. Which is why I have both the WinAmp and the Otachan on my Media Monkey. I use Otachan, but when I go into Options/Output, I click configure on the WinAmp version as it lets me go into the ASIO configuration.

 Media Monkey is great cause it adapts to your changes on the fly. You don't have to restart the player like you do with Foobar often.


----------



## Patu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I quote from Kingwa
 "DAC200 sound like Compass but has a bit upgrade and less digital sound."

 I guess if u need the usb input, i would recommend u jump straight to dac19 mk3_

 

I don't need USB input. "Less digital sound" sounds good though. 

 DAC19Mk3 would use PCM1704UK which should be one of the best DAC chips out there (right?). Then again, the sound description says it's very neutral and monitor like sounding. I'm not sure if that's what I'm looking for.


----------



## haloxt

If you don't need the headphone amp section I'm sure the power purifying circuit in the DAC-200 is worth the tradeoff if its effect is anything like my power conditioner on my compass. I'm guessing to take full advantage of the higher fidelity of the DAC19mk3 you'd have to have pretty detailed speakers/headphones so the musicality added by the earth/moon may be preferable.


----------



## Patu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you don't need the headphone amp section I'm sure the power purifying circuit in the DAC-200 is worth the tradeoff if its effect is anything like my power conditioner on my compass. I'm guessing to take full advantage of the higher fidelity of the DAC19mk3 you'd have to have pretty detailed speakers/headphones so the musicality added by the earth/moon may be preferable._

 

I think I'm good with my Lehmann. It's really hard to beat when using Sennheisers. Compass isn't quite on its level but it gets close.

 You can see my speaker setup in my signature. Bel Canto + ProAc is extremely detailed and fast combination. That's why I'd like my DAC to maybe add some smoothness in the mix (without sacrificing details and speed). That's what AudioNemesis does at the moment but now when I tried Compass with its lively, punchy and highly dynamic sound, I'm not so sure about AudioNemesis anymore.

 I'm afraid that DAC19 would make the combo sound too "hifi" and lose the musicality and easiness. By description, DAC200 should be what I'm looking for (with the Moon OPA maybe). Still I'm interested of DAC19 because of the PCM1704UK.


----------



## haloxt

I think the DAC-200 might be better than DAC19 for you but best to ask Kingwa, he can probably give much better advice on how to achieve the sound you want. Heck maybe he can color the DAC19 with a moon/earth if you want 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Currawong

Patu: If it's any help, the Reference 1, with the PC1704UK x8, has no "sound" -- that is, no colouration at all. As haloxt suggested, I'd ask Kingwa directly about the DAC19MK3. Generally though, what he says of his products is exactly what they are.


----------



## Patu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Patu: If it's any help, the Reference 1, with the PC1704UK x8, has no "sound" -- that is, no colouration at all. As haloxt suggested, I'd ask Kingwa directly about the DAC19MK3. Generally though, what he says of his products is exactly what they are._

 

Yes I've been e-mailing with him. He says pretty much like it says on the pages. Monitor like and clean sound. Bad recordings sound bad and good ones sound good. It's just that I don't know what it means in my system. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well I'll think about it.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sarathcpt: I think the preamp switch just switches between the headphone socket and the RCA jacks at the back. Are you sure the Super button at the front is off? If the switch is busted, however, then you wont get sound output except through the DAC in super mode I'm guessing._

 

Super button was off. Thats what I am thinking as well..the connection between DAC & HP socket/RCA is broken since the switch is broken. I don't have RCA analog cables to try out just the DAC section..moreover the only other amp I have is the Bithead which I don't think can take RCA-in. 

 Had emailed Kingwa with the pics..but seems he didn't get it because he replied to a previous mail and not this one.


----------



## K3cT

I have recently tried the venerable Otachan plug-in compared to the standard WASAPI output available in Vista. All tests done via Foobar and using USB of my Compass. 

 To be honest, I cannot discern between those two.


----------



## ScottieB

K3cT - was just testing between foobar and mediamonkey with their 2 different ASIO plugins and could not hear a difference, either. There was some debate about the sound level control in Foobar suggesting that its ASIO was doing something wrong, or that foobar was affecting its sound... I could not hear this, and some research brought me to this page for anyone who's interested:

Computer Audio Asylum - You nailed the volume control functions Lynn...(long) - Presto - December 03, 2007 at 12:10:26

 For the lazy ( 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) here's the most relevant part:
  Quote:


 "The Foobar volume control should work for ASIO and Directsound. The Windows volume control will usually not work work with ASIO, but will with Directsound."

 YES! Software player levels have nothing to do with "post player" level controls. Even some ASIO output plugins allow Winamp to retain level control. In these cases, you only need to ensure you have the volume set to 0dbfs - which for me was 50% slider for Winamp. For Foobar, 0dbfs is always 100% slider, which is why you get 0dfs when the Foobar level control is bypassed by the Otachan ASIO output plugins. Otachan plugins for Winamp also bypass, by in doing so, you get 200% (+6db gain) - at least you do on the audio interfaces I have.

 Even with ASIO, software levels and SOUNDCARD mixer levels will still work. It has nothing to do with kmixer. 
 

I think the important distinction here is soundcard mixer vs windows mixer. With my Xfi- I can control the various levels - even ASIO separate form the rest of my system sounds. Only thing that gets affected is if I'm playing a 96khz track, any other windows sounds (which are being fed thru my XFI mixer) will sound very slow and low pitched, as they do not match the current clock of the sound card (which would be changed to be bit-perfect).

 Sorry - should add I'm using XP, not Vista.


----------



## mbd2884

Yeah I know that's what Foobar says, but if you experiement with Foobar's volume control and replaygain, it doesn't sound as good. It's easier to leave it on full volume and just change volume on the Compass. Even better IMO, ditch Foobar and use WinAmp/Media Monkey with Otachan instead. There is definitley a difference between Otachan and Foobar ASIO, at least for me and a few others I have talked to when we listen with Compass. I don't know or care why, I just know Foobar is not the best sounding solution anymore for me.


----------



## horn

Here is my first post on head-fi, to tell a big thank you to everyone there, especially Kingwa.

 My Compass arrived this morning (in france) in a perfect package :







 It was sent by EMS on 12th april, was allready ready to receive the 18th (ordered on 26 march) and even if it went in customs I had no extra tax to pay on it.

 I was searching since a long time for the right thing to feed both my headphones and speakers and I'm now pretty sure I have it.

 I tryed it a few with my K701 and my Altéa and it seem everyone will love it.










 On the first picts I saw I believed the volume and input switch were in plastic but it's indeed something serious (aluminum?). No doubt, it's build in a very professionnal way on every aspect you could consider. 










 I made it work without any problem even on Linux by usb port (only xbmc seem to want some attention).

 I ordered it with extra Sun and Moon Opamp, to switch is easy and fast, as much as is the jumper settings. I still need to burn it, find the sound I like the more and to study the way my Stax could like it or not but I allready can tell this is an unbelievable hardware for the price it cost.






 The only little suprise was that I have to choose between pre-amp and headphone amp so I can't let my k701 that still need some burning time while I listen it on my Cambridge. Nothing dramatic.

 As I just told, I use it on my Triangle by the way of a Cambridge 540 and the neutral sound it have perfectly allow to taste the préamp character. I allready tryed it on some Jazz, (EST and some Miles Davis), Rock (Pink Floyd) and some Classic (Orff and Wagner) and every combination and settings offer suprises and lot of pleasure.






 So one more time, thank you to both head-fi and Audio-GD.

 Now it's time to go back to music


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I know that's what Foobar says, but if you experiement with Foobar's volume control and replaygain, it doesn't sound as good. It's easier to leave it on full volume and just change volume on the Compass. Even better IMO, ditch Foobar and use WinAmp/Media Monkey with Otachan instead. There is definitley a difference between Otachan and Foobar ASIO, at least for me and a few others I have talked to when we listen with Compass. I don't know or care why, I just know Foobar is not the best sounding solution anymore for me._

 

Fair enough - was simply stating that I HAVE experimented with it and found the opposite. To each their own.


----------



## sandchak

Welcome to Head-Fi horn !..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well these last couple of days we are seeing some wonderful pictures of Compass posted in the thread - Very nice !

 Agree with you its a fine piece of gear for the price.

 Enjoy !


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I know that's what Foobar says, but if you experiement with Foobar's volume control and replaygain, it doesn't sound as good. It's easier to leave it on full volume and just change volume on the Compass. Even better IMO, ditch Foobar and use WinAmp/Media Monkey with Otachan instead. There is definitley a difference between Otachan and Foobar ASIO, at least for me and a few others I have talked to when we listen with Compass. I don't know or care why, I just know Foobar is not the best sounding solution anymore for me._

 

I don't know, I tried playing around with Foobar's volume control but I just couldn't tell a difference, using WASAPI or Otachan. As for replaygain, I never use it for as long as I can remember. 

 I'm sure others could see the merits of Media Monkey but I'm just too used already to Foobar's layout and plug-ins.


----------



## jpbug

Help! I received my compass today and I have a similar problem: no sound on right channel.

 DAC output --> OK

 Line out --> OK

 Line in to headphone jack --> left channel only

 USB/optical in to headphone jack --> left channel only

 I checked the insides of the beast and I did not see anything looking out of place or damaged.

 Damian, did you finally figure it out? It may be of help.

 Anyway, I will contact audio-gd to get some advice.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Damian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, I think I've figured it out...

 Where the amp section connects to the HP socket, the wire for the right channel must be loose... So DAC -> Preamp works, but not DAC -> Amp. Hm, I just am not really sure how the Preamp and HP amp sections are different or where they connect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for all the help by the way!_


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpbug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Help! I received my compass today and I have a similar problem: no sound on right channel.

 DAC output --> OK

 Line out --> OK

 Line in to headphone jack --> left channel only

 USB/optical in to headphone jack --> left channel only

 I checked the insides of the beast and I did not see anything looking out of place or damaged.

 Damian, did you finally figure it out? It may be of help.

 Anyway, I will contact audio-gd to get some advice._

 

2 things :

 check the relay of the of the DAC output, it has a spring inside which sometimes jam due to stress during shipping, tap the relay lightly with a screw driver or some light object, sometimes by doing this the jammed spring gets released..

 I think in the case of Damian, it was the Amp section that turned out to be the cause of the problem and I think Kingwa will be sending him a new board..

 Well hope this helps till you hear from Kingwa or Damian..

 EDIT - here is the communication Damian had with me on this issue:

  Quote:


 “I've been in contact with Kingwa and we've determined the problem is with the amp section passing off to the HP socket. He's offered to send a new board for me to install which I will take him up on, so we'll have to wait and see how that goes! No actually I know it will almost certainly work so it will soon be fixed... !”


----------



## Krackatus

Does anyone know how the Compass compares to the HeadAmp Pico?


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

Great pictures horn ! Its look like the PCB are in another color, but it must be the light.


----------



## Starguard

*Can anyone measure and post the dimensions of the compass?*

 It looks bigger every time I see it!


----------



## sandchak

25cm wide , close to 8.5cm height with feet, nearly 29cm depth..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know, I tried playing around with Foobar's volume control but I just couldn't tell a difference, using WASAPI or Otachan. As for replaygain, I never use it for as long as I can remember. 

 I'm sure others could see the merits of Media Monkey but I'm just too used already to Foobar's layout and plug-ins._

 

Ditto...

 .


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Krackatus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know how the Compass compares to the HeadAmp Pico?_

 

Hmmm that's a mixed bag. I haven't read that anyone has a Pico with a Compass yet.

 Ask yourself this. If the Pico could replace Desktop solutions, would HeadAmp keep selling their Gilmore Lite? No because for a full sized, desktop amplifer, Gilmore Lite is the recommended Amplifier compared to the Pico. 

 For the DAC? Maybe you want to take a look at Compass DAC. Just one capacitor is bigger than Pico's entire DAC!


----------



## Starguard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_25cm wide , close to 8.5cm height with feet, nearly 29cm depth.._

 

Thank you!

 On a different note:

 I just recently bought a pair of Denon 2000s and this is my first pair of serious headphones... My Compass is on the way but for now I just have been plugging it into the headphone jack of my XFi. Will I notice a huge jump in sound quality when I get my Compass?


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you!

 On a different note:

 I just recently bought a pair of Denon 2000s and this is my first pair of serious headphones... My Compass is on the way but for now I just have been plugging it into the headphone jack of my XFi. Will I notice a huge jump in sound quality when I get my Compass?_

 

I would!


----------



## theBigD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you!

 On a different note:

 I just recently bought a pair of Denon 2000s and this is my first pair of serious headphones... My Compass is on the way but for now I just have been plugging it into the headphone jack of my XFi. Will I notice a huge jump in sound quality when I get my Compass?_

 

YES! you would have to be half deaf to not notice the difference. I compared my modded x-fi to my roommates compass and was blown away by the difference. virtually night and day. my x-fi was bright edgy and mid forward. compass is warm, completely black background no edge or distortion. made me go out and research a better dac, and bought a stello da100 which is pretty incredible. But the compass is very good as well and will probably tame the sibilance or brightness of d2000 that ive heard about.


----------



## Sganzerla

A friend come to my house today with D2000 and what I heard with Compass was a very good sound: deep bass, very SWEET highs and warm mids - I even heard things with some music I never did before.

 It is a very good match in my opinion, except for its lack of soundstage.


----------



## Mystere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A friend come to my house today with D2000 and what I heard with Compass was a very good sound: deep bass, very SWEET highs and warm mids - I even heard things with some music I never did before.

 It is a very good match in my opinion, except for its lack of soundstage._

 

The D2000's lack of soundstage?


----------



## Starguard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_YES! you would have to be half deaf to not notice the difference. I compared my modded x-fi to my roommates compass and was blown away by the difference. virtually night and day. my x-fi was bright edgy and mid forward. compass is warm, completely black background no edge or distortion. made me go out and research a better dac, and bought a stello da100 which is pretty incredible. But the compass is very good as well and will probably tame the sibilance or brightness of d2000 that ive heard about._

 

This is what I like to hear! Just making sure that the investment was worth it. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A friend come to my house today with D2000 and what I heard with Compass was a very good sound: deep bass, very SWEET highs and warm mids - I even heard things with some music I never did before.

 It is a very good match in my opinion, except for its lack of soundstage._

 

I love the 2000s, but I agree, the soundstage feels a bit hidden depending on the mix of a song.


----------



## Sganzerla

Sorry, I didn't want to trash this headphone, it was my bad English. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 After some burning my Compass developed a very impressive soundstage when using my K701, something that Denon did not benefit from. This is what I tried to say. There is no way one can go wrong with this combo from what I heard today.


----------



## nv88

Yes! Just got an email with a tracking number from Cherry. Hopefully mine will be delivered in a box.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nv88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes! Just got an email with a tracking number from Cherry. Hopefully mine will be delivered in a box._

 

Is this a replacement?


----------



## Skibumef

Got an email from Cherry as well. When I look at the tracking information, I see the date is from tomorrow. My Compass is being shipped from THE FUTURE! Or maybe it's 'cause China is west of the international date line...


----------



## GoodRevrnd

Got my tracking number too, woot! I ordered on the 30th.


----------



## warrant

you all were so lucky.Chinese version will be sold after may 1st.


----------



## ExtraNice

Got my tracking today also. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Doesn't seem to be up on the Chinese EMS webpage though..

 @Warrant: What do you mean "Chinese version?" You mean the price increase?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ExtraNice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my tracking today also. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Doesn't seem to be up on the Chinese EMS webpage though..

 @Warrant: What do you mean "Chinese version?" You mean the price increase?_

 

I don't think there is anything called Chinese version of Compass and the promo price will be there at least till end of May, and its Sunday so maybe you can expect changes on the shipping page tomorrow.


----------



## warrant

I think the Chinese version will be the same price and design as yours. but production capacity of audio-gd maybe has some problems.Compass will be sold to native after may 1st.and we still have not find Compass on his chinese webpage.now only no more than 20 users get a test version.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *warrant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the Chinese version will be the same price and design as yours. but production capacity of audio-gd maybe has some problems.Compass will be sold to native after may 1st.and we still have not find Compass on his chinese webpage.now only no more than 20 users get a test version._

 

Ok now I understand, you meant Compass sale in Chinese Market.

 It seems Audio GD even stopped selling DIY kits in China.. Yes, in that case, we are lucky because Compass is a great gear and I hope Compass starts rolling out locally soon !..


----------



## oldschool

I got this email from Cherry. Guess its because the damaged units some of you guys received. Mine is also shipping with DHL.

  Quote:


 One thing that I should let you know.
 Because we need to sure the insurance value and make a claim to the insurance company.We can't declare the value too low.
 From now on ,we will declare the value for USD120.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got this email from Cherry. Guess its because the damaged units some of you guys received. Mine is also shipping with DHL._

 

That will be bad news for a lot of Europeans and other nations where they have to pay VAT. But I guess it's unavoidable.


----------



## driftingbunnies

where's my email? I ordered a long time ago and still waiting for my replacement


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 where's my email? I ordered a long time ago and still waiting for my replacement_

 

I don't think any of the recent shipments were replacements of the damaged Compasses from last week.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 where's my email? I ordered a long time ago and still waiting for my replacement_

 

Email and ask is the best bet. Note that they don't carry stock of their products, they build them from scratch for the most part from what I understand, so they can't just grab something off a shelf, box it and mail it.


----------



## Krackatus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm that's a mixed bag. I haven't read that anyone has a Pico with a Compass yet.

 Ask yourself this. If the Pico could replace Desktop solutions, would HeadAmp keep selling their Gilmore Lite? No because for a full sized, desktop amplifer, Gilmore Lite is the recommended Amplifier compared to the Pico. 

 For the DAC? Maybe you want to take a look at Compass DAC. Just one capacitor is bigger than Pico's entire DAC!_

 

Some good points. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## Clok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got this email from Cherry. Guess its because the damaged units some of you guys received. Mine is also shipping with DHL._

 

Not good.

 Should have ordered earlier


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got this email from Cherry. Guess its because the damaged units some of you guys received. Mine is also shipping with DHL._

 

I suspect that is around his break even point on the box, he wants to make sure he doesn't get soaked again.

 .


----------



## direcow

Looks like Kingwa removed the offers for the power cable and the OPAs already.. or did someone else already notice that?


----------



## ExtraNice

A man's gotta make a livin'.


----------



## godluvsxs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't need USB input. "Less digital sound" sounds good though. 

 DAC19Mk3 would use PCM1704UK which should be one of the best DAC chips out there (right?). Then again, the sound description says it's very neutral and monitor like sounding. I'm not sure if that's what I'm looking for._

 

I was thinking to upgrade to either DAC200 or DAC19MKIII too, but after I seen some comment by Kingwa himself regarding users' complain about lack of musicality in his machine "To get more musicality out of neutral and monitor like sound, you could still get it fix with tuning of cable, but to get neutral and monitor like sound out of musical machine, honestly you wont get it!"


 These words helped me make my decision 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope that it does helps you too!


----------



## Patu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *godluvsxs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thinking to upgrade to either DAC200 or DAC19MKIII too, but after I seen some comment by Kingwa himself regarding users' complain about lack of musicality in his machine "To get more musicality out of neutral and monitor like sound, you could still get it fix with tuning of cable, but to get neutral and monitor like sound out of musical machine, honestly you wont get it!"


 These words helped me make my decision 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope that it does helps you too!_

 

So your decision was to stick with Compass? 

 Kingwas words are true though. Musicality and monitor like sound are pretty much the opposite things (to me at least). People should remember that musicality doesn't always mean warm and relaxed sound. It means many things. Actually every people perceive musicality differently. It has its own meaning to each one of us.

 I very much like the sound of Compass' DAC section. Still sometimes I miss mellower and easier sound. I still haven't made up my mind. DAC200 or DAC19Mk3, but which one. DAC19's Burr Brown PCM1704UK is just so tempting. Many high end DACs use this chip and it'd be interesting to hear what it's capable to do.


----------



## nv88

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this a replacement?_

 

It's the first try for me. I ordered early April 2nd.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I very much like the sound of Compass' DAC section. Still sometimes I miss mellower and easier sound. I still haven't made up my mind. DAC200 or DAC19Mk3, but which one. DAC19's Burr Brown PCM1704UK is just so tempting. Many high end DACs use this chip and it'd be interesting to hear what it's capable to do._

 

Well if you already have a Compass, it really makes little sense for going in for DAC200, they are pretty much the same apart from some fine tunings, I have both the Compass and DAC19SE (older/bigger version), and I can make out the difference very easily.
 I bought the DAC19SE for my HP listening as I am not much into it yet, for my main gear I will go for one of the Reference series - I believe the higher end of gear in Audio GD's line up are the best value for money/performance.
 You save hundreds when you buy Compass, but when you buy the REF1 or 2 you save thousands !!.. IMHO.


----------



## chesebert

I am officially calling this FOTM


----------



## Patu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well if you already have a Compass, it really makes little sense for going in for DAC200, they are pretty much the same apart from some fine tunings, I have both the Compass and DAC19SE (older/bigger version), and I can make out the difference very easily.
 I bought the DAC19SE for my HP listening as I am not much into it yet, for my main gear I will go for one of the Reference series - I believe the higher end of gear in Audio GD's line up are the best value for money/performance.
 You save hundreds when you buy Compass, but when you buy the REF1 or 2 you save thousands !!.. IMHO._

 

The Compass I have is my friend's unit. I don't need the headamp section because I'm very happy with my Lehmann BCL. Compass' headamp didn't quite match its performance. The DAC-section is what I'm interested about. I can't fit those full size DACs on my equipment rack at the moment. I want something to fit nicely next to my Bel Canto.


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A friend come to my house today with D2000 and what I heard with Compass was a very good sound: deep bass, very SWEET highs and warm mids - I even heard things with some music I never did before.

 It is a very good match in my opinion, except for its lack of soundstage._

 

I love my Compass and D2000 combo, but like you this is my first hi-end headphone so I can't compare with many others except Grado 60's. I needed a closed can so was limited on options. I did partial Mark L mods recently and would recommend you look into this, there are a couple of threads on how to do it. I had no problems once I got the cups off. It does improve the soundstage and settles the base down quite a bit.

 Also the Moon Hdam has quite a bit more sound stage than the Earth, if you ordered one and have not tried it yet. I am burning in the Moon now, and think there is a lot of synergy with the D2000's in bright mode. I am waiting untill I have at least 400 hrs on both before I do some A/B comparisons to see what my final preference is. I haven't even tried the Sun v2 yet, boy this burn in proccess takes a long time!

 Mark


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Compass I have is my friend's unit. I don't need the headamp section because I'm very happy with my Lehmann BCL. Compass' headamp didn't quite match its performance. The DAC-section is what I'm interested about. I can't fit those full size DACs on my equipment rack at the moment. I want something to fit nicely next to my Bel Canto. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

In that case, I have to accept that if you are considering factors like sound, size and fit, then DAC200 or DAC19MK3 are the only two options as far as Audio GD gears are concerned..


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rx7mark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love my Compass and D2000 combo, but like you this is my first hi-end headphone so I can't compare with many others except Grado 60's. I needed a closed can so was limited on options. I did partial Mark L mods recently and would recommend you look into this, there are a couple of threads on how to do it. I had no problems once I got the cups off. It does improve the soundstage and settles the base down quite a bit.

 Also the Moon Hdam has quite a bit more sound stage than the Earth, if you ordered one and have not tried it yet. I am burning in the Moon now, and think there is a lot of synergy with the D2000's in bright mode. I am waiting untill I have at least 400 hrs on both before I do some A/B comparisons to see what my final preference is. I haven't even tried the Sun v2 yet, boy this burn in proccess takes a long time!

 Mark_

 

Wow, I can't believe someone wants to use Bright setting with a Denon D2000. I mean even with the smooth-sounding OPA Moon at Neutral, the treble energy of the D2000 is almost too much for my poor ears!


----------



## coredump

What color optical cable did you guys get with your Compass? Mine is pink with yellow triangles. It's ugly but I like it.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, I can't believe someone wants to use Bright setting with a Denon D2000. I mean even with the smooth-sounding OPA Moon at Neutral, the treble energy of the D2000 is almost too much for my poor ears! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Heh well then you may be even more shocked to know that after trying many different combos, right now I prefer the Sun AND bright mode with my Grados! I was surprised too, actually, but I felt that the soft modes (and to a lesser extent the neutral mode) took things away - like I was missing out. The HDAMs, though, I can switch in and out and like things about all of them.


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What color optical cable did you guys get with your Compass? Mine is pink with yellow triangles. It's ugly but I like it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## arfett

Would the DAC in the compass be worse/comparable/better than the Firestone Audio Spitfire DAC?


----------



## haloxt

I can only guess, and I'd say there's a pretty good chance that the compass dac section is superior.

 The compass is my first real piece of audio equipment only having owned 2 sound cards before. And because of how low-priced the compass was it took me quite a long time to realize that audio-gd equipment is really hi-fi design and manufacturing. When audio-gd gets a sponsor forum in May, it should be put in the subtitle "high-end audio" so people don't make the same mistake I made thinking it was mid-fi because of the price :].

 And I gotta go afk until May 14th, so I'll stop trolling this thread for a few weeks, and thanks to everyone here who made the compass come about and to everyone here contributing to this thread, it's been a great time for me. Listening to the last few hours of the compass before I kiss it goodbye until mid-May.


----------



## jjo

yepyep_ seems to have gotten a sad looking cable. Lucky for him I'm also from Finland and I'm willing to trade my beautiful pink cable for that lame silvery white one


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yepyep_ seems to have gotten a sad looking cable. Lucky for him I'm also from Finland and I'm willing to trade my beautiful pink cable for that lame silvery white one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 Pink, brown, red, it's ok for me. I don't have any use for it (atleast not yet).


----------



## Denaturat

Anyone tried the Compass with HD600 yet? (Sorry if I missed such post). From what I have read it should pair with D2000 nicely, I am wondering though if it will not make the Senns too harsh?


----------



## mbd2884

Currawong uses the HD600, the OP with the FAQ and a few other impressions.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denaturat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone tried the Compass with HD600 yet? (Sorry if I missed such post). From what I have read it should pair with D2000 nicely, I am wondering though if it will not make the Senns too harsh?_

 

Just set the jumpers in the amp in soft mode or even better, you can swap the EARTH-OPA for the MOON and you get a bigger soundstage.


----------



## mbd2884

Personally, keep it neutral with Earth and you shouldn't go wrong with any of your stuff. I know majority of our headphones aren't neutral, but I try to keep it as neutral as possible within means.


----------



## coredump

I was wondering if this came off a Barbie CD player or something.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering if this came off a Barbie CD player or something. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

Oh those chrome cable ties are just fabulous too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 really compliment the yellow


----------



## Currawong

The HD-600s pair nicely with the Compass. That being said, I prefer, not surprisingly, the result with the C2C, which has the extra grunt needed to drive the detail through to them, but that's a reflection of the can's ability to scale to the ability of their source and amp. If it was back in late 2007 when I was looking to upgrade from just a pair of MB Quarts to something better, a Compass and HD-600s would have left me very satisfied.

 Check the Compass FAQ (linked in my sig) for more info and links to impressions etc.


----------



## Denaturat

Thanks, I am going to give Compass a try then.


----------



## joewatch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering if this came off a Barbie CD player or something. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









_

 

I wouldn't be caught dead using that cable. It might be mistaken for this.


----------



## Starguard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering if this came off a Barbie CD player or something. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

Dude. That. Is. _Fabulous._

 I hope I get one of these pink cables.


----------



## punk_guy182

how good are these optical cables. Any better that Blue Jeans Cable plastical optical fiber made of ESKA Mitsubishi fiber? Digital Audio Cables at Blue Jeans Cable


----------



## nauxolo

For the jumper installation, are they supposed to hang loosely when you put them on (it wobbles if I push on it). Or is it supposed to snap in?


----------



## Oggranak

Just ordered one... I hope it'll be good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've never had a real DAC or full-sized amp.


----------



## Zanth

For someone coming from a megabuck system, they might be impressed for the value/dollar but it is doubtful they would be blown away because they have heard what a good front-end paired with a good and properly amplifying device can do for the eventual outcome of the sound of music. That said, those that are for the first time hooking up their phones to a headphone amp AND a good DAC...WOW...the experience should be jaw dropping.


 The amp is excellent, simply excellent in the Compass. The DAC is just as good. A nice test I do is run without anything for a time, like I have been doing at work with just the headphones plugged into the computer. Then...after a week, listen to the new setup and do that for a week. Then go back to just the computer and phones. Your mind will reel from the degradation in sound. 

 For most people out there, the Compass would be the very last piece of kit needed in a life-time for headphone listening. Seriously. 

 For nuts like most of us around here, it is a grand little system in a box but there are better things out there, like presumably the Reference 1, bigger and better amps etc in separate boxes all stacked and ready to drive what seems so very easy - a pair of headphones.

 What is so nice though is being able to enjoy the really pricey stuff that performs handsomely and then sourcing out a giant killer like the Compass. It can cause one to reevaluate their entire system and perhaps downsize? I'm not one of those folks, sadly I'm completely addicted, but at least I recognize my sickness! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yet, I also know that the Compass has completely stopped my search for a desktop headphone solution. I'm done. It gives me everything I need and want and far more too. If I ever go out of my way to best it, then it means I've finally graduated, started paying on a mortgage and can afford a Cary 300SEI, some sweet DAC and a pair of speakers for the office 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Until that time, the Compass is my final stop in the desktop environment. 

 What I still can't get over is that it only cost $258.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For most people out there, the Compass would be the very last piece of kit needed in a life-time for headphone listening. Seriously. 

 What I still can't get over is that it only cost $258._

 

Very True ! unless one is bitten by the upgrade bug regularly, not saying that there isn't anything better out there at higher cost, but I feel after and beyond Compass one is entering into the world of diminishing returns.


----------



## Zanth

Oh it isn't just entering it, it is firmly seated there. My point was more that there are better things out there and I don't want people reading this thread to think that this unit is the best sounding thing out there. It isn't, but one has to spend A LOT MORE to better it. By a lot more I mean 5x at least for the gear I've experience with. Maybe there are other giant killers out there that I haven't heard but at $258 bucks one is getting an amp that easily competes with other solid state amps in the 800-1500 range and has a DAC that is as good as many a $1000 CD player I've heard. 

 What this means is that at under $300 one is able to take a serious bite out of hi-fi without breaking the bank. Will the price go up in the future? I expect it to. Would it be worth $1000? On sound alone yes. I believe so. Would it be worth $1500? Again, on sound alone yes because one is getting an excellent DAC and an excellent headphone amp. Once you break into the $1500 range other options become interesting too, but under $1000 I haven't heard any product that competes with it (all parts engaged).


----------



## sandchak

I think its time to insure my Compass !!..


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh it isn't just entering it, it is firmly seated there. My point was more that there are better things out there and I don't want people reading this thread to think that this unit is the best sounding thing out there. It isn't, but one has to spend A LOT MORE to better it. By a lot more I mean 5x at least for the gear I've experience with. Maybe there are other giant killers out there that I haven't heard but at $258 bucks one is getting an amp that easily competes with other solid state amps in the 800-1500 range and has a DAC that is as good as many a $1000 CD player I've heard. 

 What this means is that at under $300 one is able to take a serious bite out of hi-fi without breaking the bank. Will the price go up in the future? I expect it to. Would it be worth $1000? On sound alone yes. I believe so. Would it be worth $1500? Again, on sound alone yes because one is getting an excellent DAC and an excellent headphone amp. Once you break into the $1500 range other options become interesting too, but under $1000 I haven't heard any product that competes with it (all parts engaged)._

 

Interesting perspective. I appreciate it. if it were up to me I would spend a gazillion dollars in hi fi equipment but my wife wont let me, at least until the kids are done with college....


----------



## Currawong

I bought two "flavour of the month" items on Head-fi when I started out here, both of which I feel were lacking to some or another degree. If the Compass is now "flavour of the month", then I'm happy after all the effort if people feel it was worth buying, for its quality and what it delivers, not just because of hype. I fully realise that a lot of people new to Head-fi rely on others when choosing gear and what this means for the community at large.


----------



## gilency

And we really appreciate your input and that of others who help us spend our money wisely!


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting perspective. I appreciate it. if it were up to me I would spend a gazillion dollars in hi fi equipment but my wife wont let me, at least until the kids are done with college....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My heart goes out to you man. I'm in the same boat, but my kids are 2.5 and 5, so I have a LOOOONG way to go until my kids are outta college. And if either of them are like me, they might never get out (I'm 32 and still in school!)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I fully realise that a lot of people new to Head-fi rely on others when choosing gear and what this means for the community at large._

 

This was the main reason I posted what I did. Once upon a time I hadn't heard anything and I depended on online reviews and posts from folks who owned or who had heard gear I was interested in. Now the shoe is on the other foot sometimes (there is still plenty I want to hear and won't ever be able to without buying first). For this reason I think it is honest for people who own or have heard gear to lay it out on the table in a way that people buying without hearing first can feel they understand fully what they are getting.

 Two very different things strike me about this hobby and audio in general.

 1) the very best usually costs the most

 2) the very best shouldn't cost the same as the best from last year.

 What do I mean by this? Well the first is easy, the best really does cost the most, or usually does. Why? Not necessarily because the technology itself costs a lot but because the very best is able to be literally cost no object using rare or esoteric materials and creating products to insane tolerances (I'm thinking Bolder equipment of EMM Labs for instance) or the flip-side where a long lost art is really nearly quite lost and it takes true artisans working by hand to carve out absolute gems (I'm thinking Koetsu cartridges and some handmade German wooden tonearms).

 Yet, in many ways, technology is getting cheaper, we are advancing and costs should be coming down. That means that if we do away with exotic materials and ridiculous precision and tolerances (or can avoid highly delicate items that require being handmade by a loan man on the side of a mountain twice a year when the moonlight hits just right...) then the very best in audio should be easily replicated on the cheap.

 I often recall to mind a comment made by markl a few years ago. I'm paraphrasing but it was something to the effect of: we are living in the golden age of headphones and although right now the R10's are the best (he thought so at the time) they cost an enormous amount of money (3.5k or so) and they shouldn't cost that much to sound that good. In fact, the very best in a few years, maybe a decade should cost $500.


 You know what? He was right then and he is right now. The very best should cost a lot less than the best of yesteryear, unless we use rare materials or some new creation warranting gobs of R&D really has changed the face of the hobby. But, since most of the very best stuff is based on designs that are oh...about 100 years old (that goes for turn tables, speakers, tube amps etc) then one can hope that a $1000 turntable from today is at least on par with a $10k turntable from 1980. With amps it should be even easier and now with DACs too...the technology is mature and most of the work has been reduced to a single component packaged as a single chip! This means a good amount of the cost is swapped over to the power supply sections of amps and dacs (and CD players) because everything else is quite standard. Beefing up the power is what separates quite a bit of low-fi from mid-fi from the high-end.

 So with the Compass, we have a realworld product that demonstrates this trickle down effect. We see a product that has as wonderful discreet amp and a well laid out DAC section that when worked together provides the user with an outrageous value with true hi-fi sound. Why doesn't it cost $1500 then? Well, it could if it were made by other manufacturers who sell stuff nearly exclusively to Head-fiers. It might actually cost more than $1500. Regardless, at $258 it is just over the top value for the dollar. Yes I realize this is an intro price but again, even it it doubled. At $500-600 it would still be a bargain based on the competition. This is key. A user seasoned or wet behind the ears can come on in, grab a unit and walk away shaking their head at what this thing can do. It makes one think what goes into the cost of other products. 

*Presentation?* (exotic woods or panelling, different metals, chrome etc)

*Promotion? * There are steep costs there!

*Distribution/Dealer markup?* Definitely, there is no way a product that goes through store-fronts online or B&M can compete with direct market sales.

*Domestic labour vs. international labour?* Absolutely but don't be surprised when you find out your fancy Mark Levinson at 25k or your new Cary was also made overseas and merely "assembled" domestically (which usually means placed in a box).

 All these things need to be taken into consideration when making a purchase true, but no doubt, regardless of all of this, what is possible at a given price becomes amazing when one sees and hears the stuff in real life.


----------



## gevorg

^^^ Great post!

 The Compass raised the bar of diminishing returns so far, that before upgrading from Compass to $1000+ dac/amp, it would probably be better to upgrade to HD800 instead.


----------



## sandchak

Great post Zanth, Thank you for the practical insights, and as a newcomer to the world of headphones, I find it very useful, especially when it comes from someone with very seasoned pair of ears !.

 I have the Compass running now, and as I listen to some music I cant help but thank Kingwa and folks like Curra for starting the concept, I am sure he wouldn't have thought the Compass would turn out to be what it is, and also thank knowledgeable folks like Peete and Drosera for sharing their knowledge, and of course every one for making this journey so exciting. Personally for me I am glad I started with Compass and its no looking back from here on..


----------



## Dchenlin

First off I'd like to thank everybody for all the informative posts in this thread. After reading through about 300+ pages of posts and 5 hours, I think I have found my stand alone DaC and Amp unit for my MBP. Now i have a compass on order at the moment. Currently using a theZero Dac/Amp with my desktop... The relay switch clicking noise it gives off via the optical connection is annoying as hell. Something i will say good bye to very soon.


----------



## Currawong

An interesting thing I was thinking about today: Someone had a go at me the other day, saying I was "promoting" the Zero DAC by having a link to the FAQ I wrote in my signature (as well as the Compass). When I wrote up the FAQ and linked it, the amount of traffic in the Zero thread dropped dramatically, as all the info that was scattered about was now in one place. Since part of the reason the Compass came about was due to issues with the quality of the Zero and the eBay sellers, the lower traffic, if anything, resulted in it appearing less often in "New Posts".

 One of the things I've aimed for with the Compass FAQ is providing as much information as possible so that people can make an informed decision, as well as have as much access as possible to other peoples' experiences. In a sense, I'm making much of the discussion redundant, in that a person doesn't have to post questions about the Compass, as they can find quickly all the information they might want or need.

 If there's anything anyone thinks would be a good addition or change to the Compass FAQ, please let me know.


----------



## Hottuna_

Swapped out the Earth for the Moon in my Compass.
 What can I say.
 It is very pleasing.
 The sound is a little more laidback and less edgy without sacrificing detail.
 A wider soundstage too.
 Very relaxing to listen to.

 Awesome piece of kit this Compass is. Really.


----------



## RedSky0

Yes, that's right, what this thread needs is more hype!

 395 pages is nowhere _near_ enough.

 No but seriously, I can't wait 'til mine arrives


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mystere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys,
 I was looking for a dac/amp combo to connect to my pc that would drive my K601's and be able to hook up my powered pc speakers to and just received the Ibasso D10. So far I am happy with it and am surprised how good this little device sounds. I came across the compass here and didn't realize you could get a desktop amp like this for around the same price as the D10. I'm wondering if the compass would be a better option for me since the portability of the D10 isn't a necessity but a nice option. Just wondering if anyone has heard both or how much an upgrade it would be over the D10. The D10 has a 14 day no questions asked return policy so any input you could give would be appreciated. Thanks._

 

Auditioned them this weekend with my HD600's and the compass is far superior to the D10. The D10 just doesn't have the power with stock opamps. The D10 volume was at 3:00, for my testing, and the comparable compass volume was 9:00.

 I know you don't want to hear this, by the compass's edge decreases with cheaper and more easily driven headphones.


----------



## driftingbunnies

So i emailed kingwa and am sad to say that my compass will not arrive for another few weeks since my original order was to output all three outputs at the same time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 stupid dhl.


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, I can't believe someone wants to use Bright setting with a Denon D2000. I mean even with the smooth-sounding OPA Moon at Neutral, the treble energy of the D2000 is almost too much for my poor ears! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am not sure yet what the final setting/Hdam combination is that I will prefer, but the bright + Moon that I am listening to at the moment sounds great to me. I actually only hear a slight difference between the bright and neutral settings with the Moon. Of course my hearing may not be what it used to be in the upper frequencies so YMMV.

 My wife listens quite a bit also and she hasn't complained either.

 Mark


----------



## Olev

Please don't change the topic after this immediately - for people living in the European Union there could be as much as trouble as for me. Has anyone else got in trouble because the Compass does not have an CE stamp? I had to write a full technical description of the device because Estonian customs had it technically analyzed and Estonian Technical Surveillance Authority aid it is NOT ALLOWED to be used in the European Union because the manufacturer has no CE stamp or license. If they accept my technical details (I send them the schematics etc) they might allow it thru but they did not give me high hopes!

 Maybe in the future kingwa could just put the little stickers on the devices coming to the EU. For more information CE mark


----------



## sandchak

As far as my recollection goes, I am sure nothing like this has happened before, and I am not too sure Kingwa would just put a sticker without the certification. I really hope you can get the Compass with the explanations you provide the customs.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as my recollection goes, I am sure nothing like this has happened before, and I am not too sure Kingwa would just put a sticker without the certification. I really hope you can get the Compass with the explanations you provide the customs._

 

I never heard of this happening in The Netherlands up till now. Perhaps Estonia customs is a little too eager the conform to European rules? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That said, I can well imagine that on inspection especially Kingwa's unconventional design of the fuse might not agree with a number of EU regulations. I really hope this is not the start of more complications when it comes to imports from China.


----------



## nv88

My compass arrived around 1:00 PM today. It really moved out to get from Hong Kong Saturday to East Coast, USA on Monday.

 DHL delivered it in a box in good condition. Everything packaged very well. They must have used half a roll of tape on this box. No scratches or dents on the compass that I can see. Whew! Great so far.

 So far I've tried optical and amp only (super mode) from rca in. Everything working great. I'm using the Earth with Neutral to start with.

 How many hours before you get an idea of what it will sound like after burn in?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nv88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 How many hours before you get an idea of what it will sound like after burn in?_

 

Well others may disagree, but I think you get an IDEA right away - you just get more OF it over several hundred hours. I noticed it most in the bass- the puch and precision of the bass gets better and better as you go - everything just feels tighter. but the sound signature remains pretty consistent.


----------



## Skibumef

With my Compass on the way (it should be somewhere over the Pacific right now according to tracking), I now need to ready my equipment to connect with their new friend. In particular, I need a set of RCA interconnects to go from the DAC out of the compass to my Audioengine A2's. I have tried looking around the forum for recommendations, but there is an overwhelming amount of info- far too much for my simple needs. 
 Does anyone have any recommendations for a good set of budget/entry-level interconnects? Obviously my set-up is not good or large enough to warrant paying more than $100 (EDIT: probably not even more than $50), and length will probably not exceed 3 ft/1m.
 I'll tackle USB/Optical after I've actually spent some time listening with the Compass.


----------



## Mystere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Auditioned them this weekend with my HD600's and the compass is far superior to the D10. The D10 just doesn't have the power with stock opamps. The D10 volume was at 3:00, for my testing, and the comparable compass volume was 9:00.

 I know you don't want to hear this, by the compass's edge decreases with cheaper and more easily driven headphones._

 

Well, I think the problem is I know the sound will be better on my AKG K601's out of the compass vs. my onboard pc audio, but how much better? I mean are we talking a drastic improvement, a good improvement, or just a little bit? The D10 was just slightly better then the onboard. I want to make sure I am making an investment in something that sounds considerably better and not just something that makes it sound louder. It makes me wonder if I should just spend that money on a different pair of headphones instead of getting a dac/amp. I also use the K601's hooked up to my Yamaha receiver for movies and games and was just looking for something for my pc.


----------



## GoodRevrnd

Woot got my Compass! Came in a box via DHL. It did have green customs tape slathered all over it, and does look like they opened it. However, inspecting the contents it looks like they only opened the outer box and decided prying off the 8 pounds of tape inside wasn't worth their effort. =p I also got a pink optical cable. ^_^

 I have a question about burn-in. Why do the jumper settings matter (and which setting burns them all in at once)? People are talking about burning in the OPA, which is on the DAC board, and then having to do it with each jumper setting, which is on the amp board. This makes zero sense to me. Do they both have to be burned in "separately," and then if you were to change the OPA later you don't have to worry about separate jumper settings again or what?


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ In particular, I need a set of RCA interconnects to go from the DAC out of the compass to my Audioengine A2's. I have tried looking around the forum for recommendations, but there is an overwhelming amount of info- far too much for my simple needs. 
 Does anyone have any recommendations for a good set of budget/entry-level interconnects? Obviously my set-up is not good or large enough to warrant paying more than $100 (EDIT: probably not even more than $50), and length will probably not exceed 3 ft/1m._

 

I have bought all my cables (check sig) from Blue Jeans cable. They offer very good quality audio for a cheap price. The guys over there know their science. My interconnects are the LC-1.
Blue Jeans Cable -- Broadcast-Quality Cables at Reasonable Prices


----------



## theBigD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mystere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I think the problem is I know the sound will be better on my AKG K601's out of the compass vs. my onboard pc audio, but how much better? I mean are we talking a drastic improvement, a good improvement, or just a little bit? The D10 was just slightly better then the onboard. I want to make sure I am making an investment in something that sounds considerably better and not just something that makes it sound louder. It makes me wonder if I should just spend that money on a different pair of headphones instead of getting a dac/amp. I also use the K601's hooked up to my Yamaha receiver for movies and games and was just looking for something for my pc._

 

Ive answered this before. But, Yes there is a significant improvement over soundcard, just using the compass dac vs sound card is night and day. And the amp portion allowed the bass to bloom better with my akg 701. The music is more transparent and bass has more control and impact.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mystere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I want to make sure I am making an investment in something that sounds considerably better and not just something that makes it sound louder._

 

Well, an amp by itself would, for the most part, just make the sound, good or bad, coming from your sound card louder, not necessarily an improvement. The Compass is a DAC an amp, so processes the digital signal into analogue instead of your sound card, which should offer some improvement. As well, since it includes a good headphone amp, you should get better detail and soundstage than with a soundcard.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GoodRevrnd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question about burn-in. Why do the jumper settings matter (and which setting burns them all in at once)? People are talking about burning in the OPA, which is on the DAC board, and then having to do it with each jumper setting, which is on the amp board. This makes zero sense to me. Do they both have to be burned in "separately," and then if you were to change the OPA later you don't have to worry about separate jumper settings again or what?_

 

The jumper settings change the sound by putting a couple of caps in the signal path. They only get a signal through them with the jumpers on, so it's considered a good idea to run the unit for a while with the jumpers on so those components can "burn in". It's not a huge thing though. However, the HDAM/OPA does noticeably change over the first 350 hours.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With my Compass on the way (it should be somewhere over the Pacific right now according to tracking), I now need to ready my equipment to connect with their new friend. In particular, I need a set of RCA interconnects to go from the DAC out of the compass to my Audioengine A2's. I have tried looking around the forum for recommendations, but there is an overwhelming amount of info- far too much for my simple needs. 
 Does anyone have any recommendations for a good set of budget/entry-level interconnects? Obviously my set-up is not good or large enough to warrant paying more than $100 (EDIT: probably not even more than $50), and length will probably not exceed 3 ft/1m.
 I'll tackle USB/Optical after I've actually spent some time listening with the Compass._

 

No offense to the poster suggesting Blue Jeans Belkin/Canare interconnects, they're decent (I had two pair), but I have recently gotten a pair of DH Labs BL-1 for about $50 on eBay and there is definitely more clarity and detail from this cable over the Blue Jeans cables. Moon Audio, a forum sponser, makes these custom (which I bought), but I also found some on eBay. I would not hesitate on these cables.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have any recommendations for a good set of budget/entry-level interconnects? Obviously my set-up is not good or large enough to warrant paying more than $100 (EDIT: probably not even more than $50), and length will probably not exceed 3 ft/1m.
 I'll tackle USB/Optical after I've actually spent some time listening with the Compass._

 

I'm really impressed with the UP-OCC PCA's from Outlaw Audio. IMO, the build and sound quality are excellent, and $50 for UP-OCC IC's is a solid deal:
 Product Link: Outlaw Audio
 Cable FAQ: Outlaw Audio


----------



## Skibumef

Thanks for the help punkguy, tim, and LaidBack!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please don't change the topic after this immediately - for people living in the European Union there could be as much as trouble as for me. Has anyone else got in trouble because the Compass does not have an CE stamp? I had to write a full technical description of the device because Estonian customs had it technically analyzed and Estonian Technical Surveillance Authority aid it is NOT ALLOWED to be used in the European Union because the manufacturer has no CE stamp or license. If they accept my technical details (I send them the schematics etc) they might allow it thru but they did not give me high hopes!

 Maybe in the future kingwa could just put the little stickers on the devices coming to the EU. For more information CE mark_

 

I had no problems at all with my unit arriving in the UK.

 I'm imagine the CE mark would be needed if you were reselling these to EU customers, but you're a private individual importing a single product, for personal use.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## malldian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, an amp by itself would just make it sound louder._

 

... What do you mean?


----------



## AudioPhewl

I think he means that amplifiers, whilst they can alter the sound, their primary function is to make louder - to amplify. The best amplifier would be one that does nothing but increase the signal being fed to it.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Toe Tag

I suppose Kingwa still likes to hear feedback on the Compass. I suggested he pack the Compass in a product box. Which would then be put in the shipping box like the Compass we just got. 

 "Package the Compass (all your products) inside a second box. Suggest plain black colored cardboard box. (matte: not shiny). Then, this box goes inside the shipping box. That way, Compass does not get tape or foam evaporation marks. Also, is really more professional this way. Can also put insert inside box to hold accessory cords. (Separate to keep them from bumping). Add packet to absorb humidity and water from air. (But much smaller volume to absorb from inside inner smaller box).

 But he thought this would add 2 lbs. weight and drive up shipping cost $10 - 15. I would almost suggest an aluminum chassis, but I like the hefty feel of the Compass. And I live in Asia so I don't face the stiff DHL prices.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... What do you mean?_

 

You're right, that was a bit poor. I've corrected it:

 "Well, an amp by itself would, for the most part, just make the sound, good or bad, coming from your sound card louder, not necessarily an improvement."


----------



## Zhirc

Well, my Compass finally arrived last week via EMS... to the Finnish customs.

 Got yesterday note of arrrival -letter and they're requesting invoice, clearance of the contents and ID. I sent yesterday them via e-mail and got today message (translated roughly from Finnish) "Hi. Unfortunately customs doesn't trust to the Chinese invoices. Do you have some else like pay pal or bank statement etc."

 Argh. Wouldn't really need ~107€ price up for it...


----------



## Olev

That is usual for customs in Estonia too. I have had to show PayPal invoices many times. But now I have even bigger troubles - the customs have not even got to the price point, because the Compass has no CE sticker they say it is not allowed to be imported to the European Union.


----------



## ExtraNice

In other words, they think it costs more than the declared price and want to tax you more?


----------



## Olev

Yeah, little countries have the staff to go thru most of goods declared as $50 and ask the importer for real market value, nice to see Estonia not being the only EU country with unbelievable bureaucracy when importing stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've been to all sorts of trouble with value but this CE marking thing is new.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is usual for customs in Estonia too. I have had to show PayPal invoices many times. But now I have even bigger troubles - the customs have not even got to the price point, because the Compass has no CE sticker they say it is not allowed to be imported to the European Union._

 

From what i see, not many china audio products have those CE stickers

 since they normally do not go through the certification process which cost extra money


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, little countries have the staff to go thru most of goods declared as $50 and ask the importer for real market value, nice to see Estonia not being the only EU country with unbelievable bureaucracy when importing stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been to all sorts of trouble with value but this CE marking thing is new._

 

Seems rather pointless too. I'm willing to bet that most manufacturers just put that CE marking on there, without bothering at all with anything like the "declaration of conformity" that's required.


----------



## Olev

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems rather pointless too. I'm willing to bet that most manufacturers just put that CE marking on there, without bothering at all with anything like the "declaration of conformity" that's required._

 

Basically their argument was that it has no CE marking, I doubt they check some conformity lists. Because it has no CE sticker it stands out in the crowd automatically. That's why I suggested a few post before that Kingwa should just put the stickers on, in my case it probably would have helped.


----------



## Muji

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, my Compass finally arrived last week via EMS... to the Finnish customs.

 Got yesterday note of arrrival -letter and they're requesting invoice, clearance of the contents and ID. I sent yesterday them via e-mail and got today message (translated roughly from Finnish) "Hi. Unfortunately customs doesn't trust to the Chinese invoices. Do you have some else like pay pal or bank statement etc."

 Argh. Wouldn't really need ~107€ price up for it..._

 

You could claim that you payed with Western Union and didn't save the reciept. Worked for me with the swedish customs.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Basically their argument was that it has no CE marking, I doubt they check some conformity lists. Because it has no CE sticker it stands out in the crowd automatically. That's why I suggested a few post before that Kingwa should just put the stickers on, in my case it probably would have helped._

 

Yeah, it sounds sensible. He could even only put those stickers on the equipment that is destined for countries known to make a fuss about this. Have you asked Kingwa how he thinks about it?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, it sounds sensible. He could even only put those stickers on the equipment that is destined for countries known to make a fuss about this. Have you asked Kingwa how he thinks about it?_

 

Yes it does sound sensible Dro, but here is the story.. few years ago Kingwa heard he could get the CE certification for between USD10K- 15K, and in any case he does not think he can get the CE license for Compass, btw last month a Compass was shipped to Estonia and the buyer got it without any fuss from the customs..

 Well I hope you understand by Kingwa's language that he isnt willing to just put stickers ( nothing that I did not expect)..


----------



## Olev

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_btw last month a Compass was shipped to Estonia and the buyer got it without any fuss from the customs..._

 

From what I heard that guys unit is still being held by customs. I don't know the guy, only saw that he was shipped a Compass a week earlier than me. Is he even a member here? I talked to the Technical Surveillance Authority yesterday and they told me they are currently holding 2 Compasses.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, my Compass finally arrived last week via EMS... to the Finnish customs._

 

They are not likely to hassle you about a missing CE mark, though.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got yesterday note of arrrival -letter and they're requesting invoice, clearance of the contents and ID. I sent yesterday them via e-mail and got today message (translated roughly from Finnish) "Hi. Unfortunately customs doesn't trust to the Chinese invoices. Do you have some else like pay pal or bank statement etc."_

 

They've seen too many bogus Chinese invoices to believe everything. The last thing I received from China came with a fake invoice, even though I asked the sender to declare correct value.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Argh. Wouldn't really need ~107€ price up for it..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Muji* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could claim that you payed with Western Union and didn't save the reciept. Worked for me with the swedish customs._

 

Is the customs fraud worth it?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes it does sound sensible Dro, but here is the story.. few years ago Kingwa heard he could get the CE certification for between USD10K- 15K, and in any case he does not think he can get the CE license for Compass, btw last month a Compass was shipped to Estonia and the buyer got it without any fuss from the customs..

 Well I hope you understand by Kingwa's language that he isnt willing to just put stickers ( nothing that I did not expect).._

 

I understand, but I sure hope this situation is not going to spread. Kingwa might lose most of Europe as a potential customer base then. Okay, I know, doom-and-gloom scenario, but still...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the customs fraud worth it?_

 

I agree, be careful with what you tell customs. Not being honest might end up 'hurting more' than simply paying the taxes would.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I understand, but I sure hope this situation is not going to spread. Kingwa might lose most of Europe as a potential customer base then. Okay, I know, doom-and-gloom scenario, but still...

 I agree, be careful with what you tell customs. Not being honest might end up 'hurting more' than simply paying the taxes would._

 


 I agree with both points you have mentioned.

 1) I think at the moment it seems like a rare case to Kingwa, because he has shipped quite a lot (not talking about Compass) previously to Europe itself and hasn't faced such a problem, I guess as a business man he will weigh in the pros and cons before he decides, but one thing for sure, I don't think he will fake the stickers as many Chinese manufacturers do.

 2) Yes again, its better to come clean with these guys..


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes it does sound sensible Dro, but here is the story.. few years ago Kingwa heard he could get the CE certification for between USD10K- 15K, and in any case he does not think he can get the CE license for Compass, btw last month a Compass was shipped to Estonia and the buyer got it without any fuss from the customs..

 Well I hope you understand by Kingwa's language that he isnt willing to just put stickers ( nothing that I did not expect).._

 

imagine how many compass he would have need to sell in order to recoup back the 10-15k

 but this CE stuff does not happen to all European countries..do they?


----------



## Olev

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but this CE stuff does not happen to all European countries..do they?_

 

Well technically the CE law is the same in the whole European Union. Seems that Estonia is very eager to enforce it and is the first one to do so for Compass. But in the future who knows, when the bigger EU countries start enforcing the same law ....


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but this CE stuff does not happen to all European countries..do they?_

 

Probably restricted to those countries belonging to the European Union. (Possibly including candidate members as well.)

 But I think Olev was right when he said that now it will mainly happen in countries where the customs people have the time and the workforce to pay attention to these details. However, I could well imagine that the EU government will decide at some point in the future that this CE business is actually really important (probably actually as a means to curb imports from China and protect the European market). We'll have to see how it develops.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_imagine how many compass he would have need to sell in order to recoup back the 10-15k

 but this CE stuff does not happen to all European countries..do they?_

 

Yes its true that Kingwa is trying pass all the benefits to the customers, like shipping from 60Km away from his warehouse to avail cheaper shipping (where he has to drive all the way to deliver the goods to the DHL agent) and also declaring it quite low (until he burnt his fingers).. so it does seem if this CE issue occurs frequently he might have to get one and then make whatever adjustments in costings..

 Well the rule says its needed in all European Union Countries , but it usually never happens in reality.

  Quote:


 From what I heard that guys unit is still being held by customs. I don't know the guy, only saw that he was shipped a Compass a week earlier than me. Is he even a member here? I talked to the Technical Surveillance Authority yesterday and they told me they are currently holding 2 Compasses. 
 

Yes, I stand corrected, what you say is true.. as both the shipment to Estonia are held by customs. Sorry.
 What Kingwa says is the the other guy hasn't written to him saying his Compass is held in customs, but since he has only shipped 2 Compass to Estonia, and if what the Customs are saying is true, then both are held at Customs..


----------



## horn

I think it mostly and perhaps only happen in small countrys of Europe, in which customs have time to deal with such rules. 
 I received mine in France without any problem, it went to customs (Paris-Orly) and have been approved without any opening. They probably only verify some random packages, and probably mostly if there is more than one of that kind.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well technically the CE law is the same in the whole European Union. Seems that Estonia is very eager to enforce it and is the first one to do so for Compass. But in the future who knows, when the bigger EU countries start enforcing the same law ...._

 

OK maybe an update for you.. the other guy from Estonia just wrote to Kingwa saying he *finally received* the Compass, seems pretty excited, nothing mentioned about Customs or other hassles as such in his mail to Kingwa.. so maybe you can question the Customs, if he can receive without CE, why cant you??..


----------



## Clok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, my Compass finally arrived last week via EMS... to the Finnish customs.

 Got yesterday note of arrrival -letter and they're requesting invoice, clearance of the contents and ID. I sent yesterday them via e-mail and got today message (translated roughly from Finnish) "Hi. Unfortunately customs doesn't trust to the Chinese invoices. Do you have some else like pay pal or bank statement etc."

 Argh. Wouldn't really need ~107€ price up for it..._

 

Did you get it yet?
 What value the packet had on it?


----------



## Olev

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK maybe an update for you.. the other guy from Estonia just wrote to Kingwa saying he *finally received* the Compass, seems pretty excited, nothing mentioned about Customs or other hassles as such in his mail to Kingwa.. so maybe you can question the Customs, if he can receive without CE, why cant you??.._

 

I just called the Technical Surveillance and they told me that they agreed to let the Compasses in in the morning after looking thru the details I sent them. My Compass is in the customs now waiting for receipt from me showing the value.


----------



## Zhirc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you get it yet?
 What value the packet had on it?_

 

Nope... they're still holding on it. I'm not sure but when I got the letter yesterday, there was mark of 0,00 $ (because it was not cleared yet or had no value marked outside of the box?) on the additional details or something. Cherry's sent invoice had total value of 56,90$, which they refused to accept.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are not likely to hassle you about a missing CE mark, though._

 

I really hope so, although I too haven't heard about cases (on the Finnish forums) where they would have issues with missing CE marks. Looking just what problems Olev has had, it would be quite frustrating to explain it on here, too. Especially because parcel's now on Vantaa and I'm living on the other side of Finland. I could have requested them sending it to closer customs office, but it's still quite far from my living place. Easier if they clear it on Vantaa and then deliver it here instead, as driving costs to the closest office would be pretty much same than the cost of shipping it.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They've seen too many bogus Chinese invoices to believe everything._

 

 Yeah, it didn't really surprise me either when they told to not accept it. I wouldn't mind that badly for paying customs the extra (as it has been said, this device is still lot more valuable when compared to Western ones), but since I'm only a student, I just have to try to bargain if and when possible.

 Sorta funny that I've ordered bunch of small stuff from abroad (USA, Korea, China, Japan) easily and now when I decided to order something "bigger" for the first time, it was caught straight into customs. Should have probably asked Kingwa to deliver Compass in small pieces and separate deliveries as DIY-edition.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just called the Technical Surveillance and they told me that they agreed to let the Compasses in in the morning after looking thru the details I sent them. My Compass is in the customs now waiting for receipt from me showing the value._

 

Well, it seems you did the hard work and the other guy took the Compass before you !.. anyway I think the other guy asked for an Invoice to be mailed from Kingwa, so maybe you can ask Kingwa too for an invoice, hopefully it will be acceptable to the Customs .. whatever, I hope you get the Compass soon.


----------



## B0FF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, my Compass finally arrived last week via EMS... to the Finnish customs.

 Got yesterday note of arrrival -letter and they're requesting invoice, clearance of the contents and ID. I sent yesterday them via e-mail and got today message (translated roughly from Finnish) "Hi. Unfortunately customs doesn't trust to the Chinese invoices. Do you have some else like pay pal or bank statement etc."

 Argh. Wouldn't really need ~107€ price up for it..._

 

I'm sorry to hear this. This same thing happened to me too with luxembourgish customs.
 I send them my paypal transaction, now, I have to pay another 70€.
 Still better then not receiving anything I guess.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_parcel's now on Vantaa and I'm living on the other side of Finland. I could have requested them sending it to closer customs office, but it's still quite far from my living place. Easier if they clear it on Vantaa and then deliver it here instead, as driving costs to the closest office would be pretty much same than the cost of shipping it._

 

I can see the inconvenience. I'm fortunate in that there is a customs post office at the Helsinki main post office. Vantaa might be on the other side of the country as far as I see as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Should have probably asked Kingwa to deliver Compass in small pieces and separate deliveries as DIY-edition. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If the customs folks noticed, they could consider several small deliveries from one sender as constituting one larger shipment...


----------



## punk_guy182

I'm in Canada and I have received over 10 packages of Chinese audio gear worth more than 300USD each. I had them shipped via EMS and never have I had to pay taxes. The packages were always released from customs within 1 or 2 days. Europeans should get their Compass shipped via EMS and *not DHL*.

 Honestly, it really pisses me off to have authorities holding my package for stupid and useless certifications or to pay extra taxes.
 Having to get the manufacturer to send an invoice of the product to those tards pisses me off even more. It's time to change things and upstart a riot guys! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enough is enough! I paid it, so I'd want it immediately.
 End of discussion!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm in Canada and I have received over 10 packages of Chinese audio gear worth more than 300USD each. I had them shipped via EMS and never have I had to pay taxes. The packages were always released from customs within 1 or 2 days. Europeans should get their Compass shipped via EMS and *not DHL*._

 

But presumably Canada has a different taxation system compared to most European countries? For example, as far as I can find you pay only very little VAT ("Goods and Services Tax"), 5% I believe. In most European countries it's around 19%.
 Also, EMS is not available for all European countries with shipments from China. I can't use EMS for a shipment to the Netherlands for instance. Anyways, all larger more conspicuous gear will end up in the same customs mess, whether it's with EMS or DHL.


----------



## ecclesand

Sorry to rain on the parade, but has any of my fellow baggers heard from Audio-gd as to when their replacement Compass will ship?


----------



## driftingbunnies

this weekend is when cherry said it will ship.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Kind of along the same theme as the baggers (its weird that we have a term for you unlucky people!) what is the latest people have ordered their shipped Compass' so far? 

 I ordered mine on 9th April, just wondering when it is likely to ship. Guessing it may be soon. May send them an e-mail now


----------



## driftingbunnies

As a bagger i feel like they should definitely make ours a priority before they send the new ones because we definitely ordered it at least a month ago and have still not been able to get it while other people only ordered like a week or so before they received it. I know it wasn't their fault but i'm pretty sure other people will understand. It would probably bump them maybe half a week of not getting theirs or something.


----------



## Mystere

Is anyone running their pc speakers through the compass? Would you just get a mini to rca cable and plug into the DAC out?


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As a bagger i feel like they should definitely make ours a priority before they send the new ones because we definitely ordered it at least a month ago and have still not been able to get it while other people only ordered like a week or so before they received it. I know it wasn't their fault but i'm pretty sure other people will understand. It would probably bump them maybe half a week of not getting theirs or something._

 

Yeah I totally agree with you on this.... I wouldn't begrudge anyone who had a damaged Compass one before me, even if I had ordered before I did. I would have been gutted if my Compass had turned up wrecked.


----------



## moodyrn

Woohoo! My compass is finally on it's way. I can't wait to compare it to the Dacs that I've recently, and currently owned. In particular the valab. It had a natual sound but was lacking in details. The motu 828, which I still have, has a warm sound and plenty of bass impact. But the sound is just a little too colored for me. I already have a moon with about 300 hours of burn in which I had in a prelude. All of these was slighty better than the dacs in my pioneer vsx84 receiver. So I'm expecting the compass to be a significant upgrade to them all(I hope). I'm really looking forward to hear how they sound with my modded sextetts, which now surpasses my HD580s.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm really looking forward to hear how they sound with my modded sextetts, which now surpasses my HD580s._

 

Okay, it's really OT, but I'm curious. How have you modded your Sextetts and do you think they can be compared in sound signature to the HD580?


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But presumably Canada has a different taxation system compared to most European countries? For example, as far as I can find you pay only very little VAT ("Goods and Services Tax"), 5% I believe. In most European countries it's around 19%.
 Also, EMS is not available for all European countries with shipments from China. I can't use EMS for a shipment to the Netherlands for instance. Anyways, all larger more conspicuous gear will end up in the same customs mess, whether it's with EMS or DHL._

 

What's supposed to happen is articles imported are subject to: duty (if there's no free trade agreement such as with the USA), GST (value added tax) and provincial sales tax which is 8% in Ontario, and brokerage.

 Shipments by EMS come through Canada Post and they let quite a few shipments pass through without charging anything, even though they're supposed to depending on the declared value of the item.

 Size matters here...smaller packages generally slip though without additional charges.

 Canada Post's brokerage (like a handling fee) is quite low at approx. $6. UPS/FedEx charge a LOT (depends on the value of the item).

 I hope my Compass slides through without any charges, it's hit & miss. Although it's a fairly large box so I'll likely get hit with GST, PST, brokerage and maybe duty.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, it's really OT, but I'm curious. How have you modded your Sextetts and do you think they can be compared in sound signature to the HD580?_

 

Even an unmodded late production Sextett sounds better than the HD580. IMO...of course.


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kind of along the same theme as the baggers 
 I ordered mine on 9th April, just wondering when it is likely to ship. Guessing it may be soon. May send them an e-mail now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I second that, mine have been ordered the 10th, so we are in the same boat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The wait is always too long unfortunately, i'm checking the shipment and this thread every single day. I'm used to wait only 2 or 3 days when buying in my country.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Canuck57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's supposed to happen is articles imported are subject to: duty (if there's no free trade agreement such as with the USA), GST (value added tax) and provincial sales tax which is 8% in Ontario, and brokerage.

 Shipments by EMS come through Canada Post and they let quite a few shipments pass through without charging anything, even though they're supposed to depending on the declared value of the item.

 Size matters here...smaller packages generally slip though without additional charges.

 Canada Post's brokerage (like a handling fee) is quite low at approx. $6. UPS/FedEx charge a LOT (depends on the value of the item).

 I hope my Compass slides through without any charges, it's hit & miss. Although it's a fairly large box so I'll likely get hit with GST, PST, brokerage and maybe duty._

 

Can you explain the concept of Brokerage?? I sent a DAC to Canada UPS and the receiver went Nutz with the Brokerage fees. I had no idea what he was talking about.

 .


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you explain the concept of Brokerage?? I sent a DAC to Canada UPS and the receiver went Nutz with the Brokerage fees. I had no idea what he was talking about._

 

Many carriers make it very difficult to avoid the charges they have for clearing shipments thru customs. EMS is great here in Finland in that you can easily avoid the customs brokerage fee if you live close to a customs post office and want to clear the shipment yourself.


----------



## braindrift

I have been searching these forums for weeks before purchasing my first decent audio system.
 I bought the compass, it arrived damaged, but i should have a new one by the end of next week.
 I am looking to get headphones for the compass before it arrives, and i could use your help.

 Right now i am considering...
 -AD900
 -AD2000 (#1 choice, but i am concerned about the colored mids input helpful)
 -HD650
 -HD600
 (price ceiling $700)
 (don't like the look of the grados)
 (AKG501,701 from reviews seem to clinical and bass light for me)

 I listen mostly to instrumental music.

 Listening Tastes

 85% - Instrumental – (post-rock, metal, stoner, drone, ambient, jazz, etc.)
 15% - rock - Jimi Hendrix to Tool


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to rain on the parade, but has any of my fellow baggers heard from Audio-gd as to when their replacement Compass will ship?_

 

yes...This weekend, so hopefully will have it by later next week! Cherry emailed yesterday asking whether my cables/OPA's are working or not.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many carriers make it very difficult to avoid the charges they have for clearing shipments thru customs. EMS is great here in Finland in that you can easily avoid the customs brokerage fee if you live close to a customs post office and want to clear the shipment yourself._

 


 Same here too. EMS is the way to go because it deals with Canada post which has 4 different offices in a 15 minute walk radius from where I live. DHL, UPS and FedEX are greedy companies that I never want to deal with ever again. They charge excessive taxes and hidden fees even when taxes were prepaid at the point of origin.
 I had very large packages being sent from China to Canada via EMS without having to pay taxes.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Omega17TheTrue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I second that, mine have been ordered the 10th, so we are in the same boat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The wait is always too long unfortunately, i'm checking the shipment and this thread every single day. I'm used to wait only 2 or 3 days when buying in my country._

 

Well Cherry got back to me and told me mine would be shipping tomorrow


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well Cherry got back to me and told me mine would be shipping tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Lucky you. I ordered and paid for mine on *March 20* and to this day, I still haven't heard a Compass.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lucky you. I ordered and paid for mine on *March 20* and to this day, I still haven't heard a Compass._

 

Well... mine is coming via EMS, but if I do get it before you do (and its in one piece) you are welcome round to have a listen


----------



## Skibumef

Just got the email notification that mine is out for delivery! I assume the post office at school will be able to accept the package on my behalf as they have done with every other package I've ever received, but it seems like you can never be too sure with DHL. I'll post photos hopefully, though I really should be studying for exams. Man, I can't think of a worse week to get a new toy!


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been searching these forums for weeks before purchasing my first decent audio system.
 I bought the compass, it arrived damaged, but i should have a new one by the end of next week.
 I am looking to get headphones for the compass before it arrives, and i could use your help.

 Right now i am considering...
 -AD900
 -AD2000 (#1 choice, but i am concerned about the colored mids input helpful)
 -HD650
 -HD600
 (price ceiling $700)
 (don't like the look of the grados)
 (AKG501,701 from reviews seem to clinical and bass light for me)

 I listen mostly to instrumental music.

 Listening Tastes

 85% - Instrumental – (post-rock, metal, stoner, drone, ambient, jazz, etc.)
 15% - rock - Jimi Hendrix to Tool_

 


 That is a good budget for headphones. I personally would recommend the HD650's and then get an upgraded cable. I got both the cable and cans from Moon Audio. Highly recommended and sound great with the Compass.


----------



## Zanth

Les, brokerage fees are the fees UPS/FedEX/DHL CHARGE the customer for paying the taxes and duty up front to customs. 

 So, for Canada Post, they charge a very reasonable $6 fee for this task and therefore, when we Canadians pay the fee to the postal carrier or at the local postal depot, we are paying all cash to Canada Post so they themselves can recoup the costs they have paid out of pocket.

 Going through UPS or FedEx for instance, they charge what seems to be a starting rate of $70 for even the most minor package if they have to pay taxes and duty on it. I once ordered some cables and the cables were $50 CAD, taxes were $3.5, duty was $4 something and the brokerage fee was $72!


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, it's really OT, but I'm curious. How have you modded your Sextetts and do you think they can be compared in sound signature to the HD580?_

 

Well this is actually my third pair. Unmodded, the midrange sounded great. Highs are good but can sound a little smeared at times. The third pair(LP) I got sounded a little better than the previous two(also LP). So I gathered that the driver must be in a little better condition. So I decided to keep these. As for the mods, I did the hairband mod for the elastics, which made a much tighter fit. The bass really improved with this. It became tighter, extended lower and the quantity was even more. The next thing I did was to remove the reticulated foam behind the driver. This solved the problem with the smearing that I got with the highs at times. And finally I did the fabric screen mod. This made them more airy.The highs were more extended and detailed without sacrificing that very smooooth midrange. I still prefer my 580s with jazz however. But with everything else, I prefer the sextetts. I'm expecting even more improvement after I recable them. The 580s still have the advantage when I comes to impact and slam, but that gap is much closer. My sextetts beat my 580s in every other area. They don't handily beat them. But giving their midrange, a more detailed and extended highend, I like them better. That's saying a lot because I'll take the 580/600s over the 650s any day.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Les, brokerage fees are the fees UPS/FedEX/DHL CHARGE the customer for paying the taxes and duty up front to customs. 

 So, for Canada Post, they charge a very reasonable $6 fee for this task and therefore, when we Canadians pay the fee to the postal carrier or at the local postal depot, we are paying all cash to Canada Post so they themselves can recoup the costs they have paid out of pocket.

 Going through UPS or FedEx for instance, they charge what seems to be a starting rate of $70 for even the most minor package if they have to pay taxes and duty on it. I once ordered some cables and the cables were $50 CAD, taxes were $3.5, duty was $4 something and the brokerage fee was $72!_

 

I guess that explains it. The guy was really ticked I had used UPS and wanted me to pay the fees. I was empathetic to his plight.

 .


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well this is actually my third pair. Unmodded, the midrange sounded great. Highs are good but can sound a little smeared at times. The third pair(LP) I got sounded a little better than the previous two(also LP). So I gathered that the driver must be in a little better condition. So I decided to keep these. As for the mods, I did the hairband mod for the elastics, which made a much tighter fit. The bass really improved with this. It became tighter, extended lower and the quantity was even more. The next thing I did was to remove the reticulated foam behind the driver. This solved the problem with the smearing that I got with the highs at times. And finally I did the fabric screen mod. This made them more airy.The highs were more extended and detailed without sacrificing that very smooooth midrange. I still prefer my 580s with jazz however. But with everything else, I prefer the sextetts. I'm expecting even more improvement after I recable them. The 580s still have the advantage when I comes to impact and slam, but that gap is much closer. My sextetts beat my 580s in every other area. They don't handily beat them. But giving their midrange, a more detailed and extended highend, I like them better. That's saying a lot because I'll take the 580/600s over the 650s any day._

 

why do you prefer the 580/600's over the 650's?


----------



## tim3320070

So since the DHL debacle, have people been receiving Audio-gd items undamaged (thru DHL)? I have something coming soon.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tim3320070* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So since the DHL debacle, have people been receiving Audio-gd items undamaged (thru DHL)? I have something coming soon._

 

I'd like to ask this as well. I'm going to place a Compass order soon and I'd like to know if I can expect an undamaged item through DHL or if I should wait the extra couple days for EMS.


----------



## ScottieB

It seems to have been sorted out and Compasses are now arriving safe and sound.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems to have been sorted out and Compasses are now arriving safe and sound._

 

That's what I've been reading as well.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems to have been sorted out and Compasses are now arriving safe and sound._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what I've been reading as well._

 

Thanks for the replies!


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you explain the concept of Brokerage?? I sent a DAC to Canada UPS and the receiver went Nutz with the Brokerage fees. I had no idea what he was talking about.

 ._

 

Brokerage, is what a company/post office whatever, charges to process/clear the package through customs. Below are the UPS brokerage rates. The higher the value of the item, the higher the brokerage.

UPS: Rates for Customs Clearance into Canada

 I ALWAYS have packages shipped from the USA by USPS *NEVER UPS/FedEx*. I learned the hard way!

 On the DAC you shipped to Canada, they would first transale the USD to CDN dollars. Then apply their brokerage fee + GST (Goods & Services Tax - Federal Gov't) + Provincial Sales Tax. There's no duty if the item was made in USA/Mexico/Canada due to the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).


----------



## nv88

My compass came yesterday DHL to USA. It was in a box and in perfect shape.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Canuck57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Brokerage, is what a company/post office whatever, charges to process/clear the package through customs. Below are the UPS brokerage rates. The higher the value of the item, the higher the brokerage.

UPS: Rates for Customs Clearance into Canada

 I ALWAYS have packages shipped from the USA by USPS *NEVER UPS/FedEx*. I learned the hard way!

 On the DAC you shipped to Canada, they would first transale the USD to CDN dollars. Then apply their brokerage fee + GST (Goods & Services Tax - Federal Gov't) + Provincial Sales Tax. There's no duty if the item was made in USA/Mexico/Canada due to the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)._

 

Thanx!

 Well they also must have looked inside and assessed the brokerage fees based on New Retail prices. It looks like they looked it up to get the price instead of going by the $35 I put on it. At least from that fee schedule.

 How long has Canada UPS been doing this? 

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well this is actually my third pair. Unmodded, the midrange sounded great. Highs are good but can sound a little smeared at times. The third pair(LP) I got sounded a little better than the previous two(also LP). So I gathered that the driver must be in a little better condition. So I decided to keep these. As for the mods, I did the hairband mod for the elastics, which made a much tighter fit. The bass really improved with this. It became tighter, extended lower and the quantity was even more. The next thing I did was to remove the reticulated foam behind the driver. This solved the problem with the smearing that I got with the highs at times. And finally I did the fabric screen mod. This made them more airy.The highs were more extended and detailed without sacrificing that very smooooth midrange. I still prefer my 580s with jazz however. But with everything else, I prefer the sextetts. I'm expecting even more improvement after I recable them. The 580s still have the advantage when I comes to impact and slam, but that gap is much closer. My sextetts beat my 580s in every other area. They don't handily beat them. But giving their midrange, a more detailed and extended highend, I like them better. That's saying a lot because I'll take the 580/600s over the 650s any day._

 

Thanks for the complete outline! Yes, I agree, getting a good seal with these things is essential and having strong elastics really helps. I've been looking for some good replacement foam for mine, but in the mean time have removed the foam in both my specimens (EP and MP). In both cases it had already started to turn into sticky black goo. Uhg, nasty! I have considered the fabric screen mod, but I'm a bit scared to go through with it. It really exposes the drivers (all 14 of 'em 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ), I don't trust myself enough to be sure I won't damage them at some point.

 I can almost guarantee that recabling will be a major improvement. I recabled both of mine (with rather modest cables) and in both cases there was a big leap in overall fulness and clarity. Small wonder of course, since the original cable was crap to begin with, and with 30-odd years of use, there's probably nothing much left of it except for small copper fragments. 

 It's very interesting that you would prefer the Sextetts in most areas to the HD580/600. The HD600 is basically the headphone that's next on my 'to buy-list' (although I would probably use them for classical music exclusively).

 (And now back to the topic.) I find that the Compass works great with the Sextetts. In fact, I feel I prefer how it works with high ohm 'phones in general.


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanx!

 How long has Canada UPS been doing this? 

 ._

 

They've always done it. It's law that packages are SUPPOSED to be cleared through customs and assessed the applicable duty (if any), GST, PST. The brokerage fee is like a handling fee, it's up to how much FedEx or USP or Canada Post wants to charge. 

 Canada Post charges approx. $8 regardless of the value of the item and they often just let packages (typically smaller size packages) go through without any additional charges.

 I bought RS2s from a head-fier in the USA. I clearly told him a few times to ship them by USPS. Of course he shipped them UPS and I ended up paying quite a bit for brokerage, PST, and GST.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the complete outline! Yes, I agree, getting a good seal with these things is essential and having strong elastics really helps. I've been looking for some good replacement foam for mine, but in the mean time have removed the foam in both my specimens (EP and MP). In both cases it had already started to turn into sticky black goo. Uhg, nasty! I have considered the fabric screen mod, but I'm a bit scared to go through with it. It really exposes the drivers (all 14 of 'em 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), I don't trust myself enough to be sure I won't damage them at some point.

 I can almost guarantee that recabling will be a major improvement. I recabled both of mine (with rather modest cables) and in both cases there was a big leap in overall fulness and clarity. Small wonder of course, since the original cable was crap to begin with, and with 30-odd years of use, there's probably nothing much left of it except for small copper fragments. 

 It's very interesting that you would prefer the Sextetts in most areas to the HD580/600. The HD600 is basically the headphone that's next on my 'to buy-list' (although I would probably use them for classical music exclusively).

 (And now back to the topic.) I find that the Compass works great with the Sextetts. In fact, I feel I prefer how it works with high ohm 'phones in general._

 


 Thanks for the info. You're right about the fabic mod. You do have to treat them more delicate with the drivers exposed. But I think that's a small sacrifice with the impovement you gain. The stocking is about one of the worst I've seen(it is 30 years old). I think I'll go ahead and get started on that right away.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why do you prefer the 580/600's over the 650's?_

 

Not that I don't like them. In fact I hold them in high regard. I love their sound signature, but to me they are a bit colored, although it is a good coloration. Some people like it and some don't. The 580s are just more neutral to me. There are many people around here who like the 580/600s better. From everything I've read, I'll say it's probably 50/50. I'll be happy with either one, I just like the 580s better because of it being a little more neutral.


----------



## mbd2884

I've recently added in a pair of JBL L20 t3 speakers to my setup. These are old JBL from the L series that was discontinued in the late 80s. They use 6.5" polypropylene woofer and pure titanium tweeter 2-Way. Hmm pretty old monitors, they are the home version of JBL's studio monitors from back then. I acquired a pair in absolute pristine condition, might as well be NOS, very happy.
 - Sidenote, so thankful that Audio technology has not changed much and that good speakers decades ago are still good speakers today. These are replacing my newer JBL L830s!

 Using the Super on Compass allows me to bypass the Headphone Amp and DAC out to a Kenwood reciever. I am enjoying Chicane right now and it sounds great. 

 Listening this way, makes me appreciate the HD650s even more. The reviews are correct, the HD650 replication of speaker sound is excellent, not quite as good as listening to speakers but darn is it close compared to other headphones I've tried.

 Either way, using the Compass as a DAC for my humble speaker setup is awesome. Switch Super and it's back to headphones, very convenient. 

 My next move is to upgrade the reciever as I see no reason to upgrade the JBLs. I was actually looking at monitors rather than bookshelf/stand mounted speaker. Having a monitor in a wooden cabinet for a bargain price worked out OK so far.

 The Compass is proving to be such a bargain and incredible ease of use tranisitioning from speakers to headphones and vice versa.


----------



## Mingo

Instead of switching the Earth -Moon and Sun modules, would it be possible to make a Compass with all 3 built in and just a switch so you can choose. In my opinion this might be a good idea, as I am of the impression that most people buy all the OPAs.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not that I don't like them. In fact I hold them in high regard. I love their sound signature, but to me they are a bit colored, although it is a good coloration. Some people like it and some don't. The 580s are just more neutral to me. There are many people around here who like the 580/600s better. From everything I've read, I'll say it's probably 50/50. I'll be happy with either one, I just like the 580s better because of it being a little more neutral._

 

Yeah I get you... I remember when I was looking at reviews of them both some people preferred the 600's... seemed like it was very source dependent though


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Instead of switching the Earth -Moon and Sun modules, would it be possible to make a Compass with all 3 built in and just a switch so you can choose. In my opinion this might be a good idea, as I am of the impression that most people buy all the OPAs._

 

I'm no expert, but that would add more circuitry and potential for noise. I think you generally want to keep the circuits as small as possible


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've recently added in a pair of JBL L20 t3 speakers to my setup. These are old JBL from the L series that was discontinued in the late 80s. They use 6.5" polypropylene woofer and pure titanium tweeter 2-Way. Hmm pretty old monitors, they are the home version of JBL's studio monitors from back then. I acquired a pair in absolute pristine condition, might as well be NOS, very happy.
 - Sidenote, so thankful that Audio technology has not changed much and that good speakers decades ago are still good speakers today. These are replacing my newer JBL L830s!

 Using the Super on Compass allows me to bypass the Headphone Amp and DAC out to a Kenwood reciever. I am enjoying Chicane right now and it sounds great. 

 Listening this way, makes me appreciate the HD650s even more. The reviews are correct, the HD650 replication of speaker sound is excellent, not quite as good as listening to speakers but darn is it close compared to other headphones I've tried.

 Either way, using the Compass as a DAC for my humble speaker setup is awesome. Switch Super and it's back to headphones, very convenient. 

 My next move is to upgrade the reciever as I see no reason to upgrade the JBLs. I was actually looking at monitors rather than bookshelf/stand mounted speaker. Having a monitor in a wooden cabinet for a bargain price worked out OK so far.

 The Compass is proving to be such a bargain and incredible ease of use tranisitioning from speakers to headphones and vice versa._

 

I too have just bought some new speakers - B&W 601 S2's. I haven't got a decent stereo setup yet, as I've always used my surround amp and small satellites but after getting my HD650's at the beginning of the year I've really seen (heard!) what good speakers can sound like. So, on that note, I also just purchased a NAD C325bee to use as a power amp in conjunction with the Compass as pre amp.

 Cant wait until it all arrives and is set up. Cant believe this year I have gone from listening to music through very average surround satellites to owning a set of HD650's and when the compass and NAD arrive hopefully having a really nice sounding HP and stereo setup! 

 Since getting my HD650's I've been listening to so much more music than I ever have before!


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I too have just bought some new speakers - B&W 601 S2's. I haven't got a decent stereo setup yet, as I've always used my surround amp and small satellites but after getting my HD650's at the beginning of the year I've really seen (heard!) what good speakers can sound like. So, on that note, I also just purchased a NAD C325bee to use as a power amp in conjunction with the Compass as pre amp.

 Cant wait until it all arrives and is set up. Cant believe this year I have gone from listening to music through very average surround satellites to owning a set of HD650's and when the compass and NAD arrive hopefully having a really nice sounding HP and stereo setup! 

 Since getting my HD650's I've been listening to so much more music than I ever have before!_

 

Gratz! I'd really like to see how my vintage speakers stack up against the newer speakers like your 601s. JBL doesn't make speakers like mine anymore, essentially pro-monitors in wood for home users. 

 It's no wonder that old headphones like the DT48 still sound great compared to the latest headphones released today. I will never underestimate the quality of vintage audio gear again.

 You are going to love how easy it is to switch from speakers to headphones and back again! One button, don't have to get up, it's great!


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are going to love how easy it is to switch from speakers to headphones and back again! One button, don't have to get up, it's great!_

 

Yeah, that super button is indeed super. Its proving very useful for a lot of people... was a great idea by Kingwa!


----------



## driftingbunnies

Would it be possible to use my compass as the DAC that goes to my receiver that will power my speakers? Would it just reprocess the sound in the receiver? It would probably be better if I got an amplifier just for the speakers right?


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would it be possible to use my compass as the DAC that goes to my receiver that will power my speakers? Would it just reprocess the sound in the receiver? It would probably be better if I got an amplifier just for the speakers right?_

 

What kind of receiver is it? Is it a 5.1 or just a stereo receiver?


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would it be possible to use my compass as the DAC that goes to my receiver that will power my speakers? Would it just reprocess the sound in the receiver? It would probably be better if I got an amplifier just for the speakers right?_

 

Not sure. My receiver is just a 2-Channel and does not reprocess it. Just an amplifier.

 Just loving my "new" old speakers right now. Definite conclusion, if on budget, buying new speakers is almost stupid if you can buy vintage in excellent condition. No way I could buy new speakers within my budget that sound as good as these right now.


----------



## driftingbunnies

I have an onkyo SR304B so it's real cheap. it's 5.1 though. Not sure how i would connect it since the output for the compass is only RCA


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have an onkyo SR304B so it's real cheap. it's 5.1 though. Not sure how i would connect it since the output for the compass is only RCA_

 

Very doubtful you would get a particularly good musical performance from a 5.1 amp anyway... what inputs does it have then?


----------



## moodyrn

Most receivers, even HT receivers has a bypass or "pure direct" mode that bypasses all of the processing. I like the room correction feature using my speakers, but it's troublesome changing so many settings just to listen to my headphones. I prefer using my receiver as a preamp because of the convience of using a remote. So I discovered that plugging headphones in automatically bypasses the processing. So when I listen to my headphones, I just plug an adapter into the headphone jack of my receiver. It's a lot easier than going through all of the menus.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Just had a quick look at that amp... it does have audio inputs so I cant see why you couldn't connect the compass to it?


----------



## driftingbunnies

I know it has inputs, but will it be a big improvement using the compass compared to just hooking up to the receiver using optical? Just not sure if it will bypass the processing.


----------



## moodyrn

Like I stated eariler. Most receivers has a pure direct or bypass mode. This will turn off all processing. It's just as easy as turning it on or off. As for as will it be an improvement? If I had to guess, I'll say yes. I have a 1500.00 receiver, and even the prelude soundcard I once had sounded slightly better than the built in dacs. I can't say for sure if your receiver has this. I know most do, even older ones. Just goggle it or read your owners manual if you still have it.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know it has inputs, but will it be a big improvement using the compass compared to just hooking up to the receiver using optical? Just not sure if it will bypass the processing._

 

Hopefully someone else will be able to answer this for you more definitively, but I really don't think you will gain much by running the Compass through your 5.1 amp. I don't believe you will completely bypass the processing, and the amp is unlikely to be particularly good for 2ch purposes. 

 This is one of the reasons I just purchased the NAD C325bee, because like most (all?) of the NAD integrated amps it has jumpers between the pre and power amp sections that can be taken off if you want to separate these... so I will do that and use the NAD as a power amp and the Compass as a pre amp.


----------



## moodyrn

One more thing, if the dsp is engaged, no it won't bypass it, but you should have the option to turn it off.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One more thing, if the dsp is engaged, no it won't bypass it, but you should have the option to turn it off._

 

This is interesting... So moodryn, do you think that if a 5.1 amp does have this bypass, that it could be a pretty decent amp? From what I've read, 5.1 receivers are usually fairly poor at this, but I guess if using a different DAC then it could make a difference. But surely not as much as getting an integrated stereo amp, or better yet a power amp?


----------



## moodyrn

It depends on the receiver. By no means does a receiver compare to a stand alone amp. But some are actually pretty good. I have a pioneer vsx84. The reason I went with this one is because it was tested at outputting rated power, even with all channels driven. Most receivers don't accomplish this. What the op wanted to know was, would the internal processing be bypass if he(or she) connected a compass to the inputs of his or her's receiver(it's not an amp). And most receivers have a bypass mode that completely bypasses the internal processing.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends on the receiver. By no means does a receiver compare to a stand alone amp. But some are actually pretty good. I have a pioneer vsx84. The reason I went with this one is because it was tested at outputting rated power, even with all channels driven. Most receivers don't accomplish this. What the op wanted to know was, would the internal processing be bypass if he(or she) connected a compass to the inputs of his or her's receiver(it's not an amp). And most receivers have a bypass mode that completely bypasses the internal processing._

 

So the bypass feature is really the same as the jumpers on the NAD amplifier I just bought, only like an electronic version of them? E.g. the bypass effectively separates the pre and power amp sections of the receiver and allows you to use it as just a power amp?


----------



## doping panda

Does anyone know if Kingwa is still selling the power cable with the Compass for $60. It's not on the website any more. I would like to buy the power cable, but I might spend the money on K601 pads for my K500 or a recable for my Sextetts instead. I have just enough money right now to order a Compass with the other two HDAMs, but I don't have enough money for a Compass with the other two HDAMs and the upgraded power cable.


----------



## moodyrn

I think you may be a little confused. The bypass feature doesn't separate anything. It's not any type of dsp or electronic effect. It turns all of that off. For example: auto eq, room correction, small or large speakers, bass or treble etc.. It allows the signal to be a "pure analog" signal.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if Kingwa is still selling the power cable with the Compass for $60. It's not on the website any more. I would like to buy the power cable, but I might spend the money on K601 pads for my K500 or a recable for my Sextetts instead. I have just enough money right now to order a Compass with the other two HDAMs, but I don't have enough money for a Compass with the other two HDAMs and the upgraded power cable._

 

Why dont you drop him a quick e-mail to ask. We'd noticed he'd taken them off the page just after the DHL problems, so maybe it was because of this. If you dont ask you dont get though


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why dont you drop him a quick e-mail to ask. We'd noticed he'd taken them off the page just after the DHL problems, so maybe it was because of this. If you dont ask you dont get though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I actually sent him an email right now. Now I just have to figure out if the power cable or the mods to my Sextetts and my K500s will do more to improve the sound.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you may be a little confused. The bypass feature doesn't separate anything. It's not any type of dsp or electronic effect. It turns all of that off. For example: auto eq, room correction, small or large speakers, bass or treble etc.. It allows the signal to be a "pure analog" signal._

 

Yeah but surely if it is a surround sound processor/amplifier, with all the processing turned off it is then just an amplifier - in the same way as an integrated amplifier without the pre amplifier it just a power amp. I know its not exactly the same, but you get the same results no?


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure. My receiver is just a 2-Channel and does not reprocess it. Just an amplifier.

 Just loving my "new" old speakers right now. Definite conclusion, if on budget, buying new speakers is almost stupid if you can buy vintage in excellent condition. No way I could buy new speakers within my budget that sound as good as these right now._

 

I agree, all my speakers are vintage: Klipsch La Scala, Cornwall, Heresy, Original Large Advents, Dynaco A25, Bose 601 (yes they sound good), Thiel SC2, Realistic Mach 1, and more recent Paradigms (5se & 9se) AND the majority of my amps Sansui/Marantz/Luxman are from the 1970s.


----------



## darwinyo

I just got 4 units in today for myself and a few co-workers. Ordered early April, original shipping estimate was Apr 12th, got delayed, shipped DHL on Apr 18th, received in Northern California around 2:30PM on Apr 21st. Extremely well packed in boxes (4 individual boxes in one larger box). Looks like customs opened one of the boxes up but didn't look past the bubble wrap.

 We're letting them sit for a day with the cover off before we power them up but wow, this is some real quality gear.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darwinyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We're letting them sit for a day with the cover off before we power them up but wow, this is some real quality gear._

 

Thats impressive restraint!


----------



## darwinyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats impressive restraint! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wanna make sure they marinate properly before I indulge


----------



## Baird GoW

Fine I'm SORRY.


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Baird GoW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SORRY for sounding like a complete ass BUT... DID YOU REALLY JUST ASK THAT?

 From that I interpreted 2 different things your may be asking... both are ridiculous.

 First if your saying you want a better signal to the speakers from the PC and you use a MINI to RCA it will only get amplified defeating the purpose of a DAC.

 Second was that you wanted to know if using mini instead of optical/usb/coaxial was fine. if this second one is correct then you obviously don't know what a dac is and you should have done research before you bought it.

 I'll give you a hint 1/8" plug is analog while optical/usb/coaxial are all digital._

 

If you have something helpful to say say it. Please don't go around insulting people. its not cool.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Baird GoW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SORRY for sounding like a complete ass BUT... DID YOU REALLY JUST ASK THAT?

 From that I interpreted 2 different things your may be asking... both are ridiculous.

 First if your saying you want a better signal to the speakers from the PC and you use a MINI to RCA it will only get amplified defeating the purpose of a DAC.

 Second was that you wanted to know if using mini instead of optical/usb/coaxial was fine. if this second one is correct then you obviously don't know what a dac is and you should have done research before you bought it.

 I'll give you a hint 1/8" plug is analog while optical/usb/coaxial are all digital._

 

You pretty much missed the whole Boat Here!

 .


----------



## darwinyo

BTW, for those wondering how this Compass Amp compares to the Graham Slee Novo or Corda Arietta, I should be able to give some thoughts in a few weeks after I've done some proper listening between my Darth V3s and MarkL D2000s (probably with the Earth and Moon in various configurations). Also for those wondering how the synergy between this and the Darths (I don't think I've read anyone with that setup), same as above


----------



## Nidhogg22

Could someone please link to the Audio-GD page where it shows what date and persons they've sent out the Compasses for?


----------



## Dankerz

HERE


----------



## Nidhogg22

Many thanks.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Does mbd have a cousin ?

 Peete


----------



## Iyonesco

I can't see the price for the Sun and the Moon. Anyone know where they're listed?

 Also do you just work out the total yourself and send the PayPal payment specifying what you want or are you supposed to email to confirm the price first?

 Thanks for your help.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does mbd have a cousin ?

 Peete_

 

Looks like the Circus is back in Town...


 .


----------



## joewatch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Iyonesco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't see the price for the Sun and the Moon. Anyone know where they're listed?

 Also do you just work out the total yourself and send the PayPal payment specifying what you want or are you supposed to email to confirm the price first?

 Thanks for your help._

 

OPA info here.

 Prices about 1/2 way down. Earth $22.50, Moon $25, Sun V2 $30

 I e-mailed to confirm the price, but you could calculate it yourself, just add 4% for paypal fees. I'm sure audio-gd will let you know if you owe more.


----------



## Currawong

You should email Audio-gd first with your order and request a total first, before paying with Paypal. Make sure you confirm in the Paypal message who you are and what you emailed about so they don't get confused.


----------



## Yikes

I just ordered a Music Hall DAC 25.2 and I think I'm going to order a Compass and do a comparison. On paper it looks like the DAC 25.2 is the better DAC and the Compass the better Headphone Amp. It'll be an interesting comparison. Maybe I'll throw in a Cambridge Audio DacMagic for the DAC comparison.

 I'm primarily looking for a balanced DAC to use with the Phoenix that I'm planning on ordering. I know the Compass isn't balanced, I'm getting it as a gift for a friend.


----------



## Mystere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Baird GoW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SORRY for sounding like a complete ass BUT... DID YOU REALLY JUST ASK THAT?

 From that I interpreted 2 different things your may be asking... both are ridiculous.

 First if your saying you want a better signal to the speakers from the PC and you use a MINI to RCA it will only get amplified defeating the purpose of a DAC.

 Second was that you wanted to know if using mini instead of optical/usb/coaxial was fine. if this second one is correct then you obviously don't know what a dac is and you should have done research before you bought it.

 I'll give you a hint 1/8" plug is analog while optical/usb/coaxial are all digital._

 

Thanks Mr. Grumpy Beard! I was just asking if anyone was using their pc speakers with their compass and how they were doing it. If the dac out goes to an external dac then no I wouldn't plug it in there - sorry to make that mistake. Thanks for the hint. I kept chopping the ends off my 1/8" plugs and wondering why I could never see the 1's and 0's. Who ever said I bought it? Your post has taught me what a true DAC is.

*D*igital
*A*ngry
*C*ontent


----------



## Baird GoW

lol it sounded like you bought it sorry i just erased it even though its been quoted 3 times.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why dont you drop him a quick e-mail to ask. We'd noticed he'd taken them off the page just after the DHL problems, so maybe it was because of this. If you dont ask you dont get though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I got a reply from Kingwa about this. He is selling the power cable for the normal price now instead of the special introductory price. I assume this applies to the HDAMs and the Canare coaxial cable as well. The reason for it though doesn't seem to be the DHL problems, but the entry of the Compass into the Chinese market. Kingwa stated that in the Chinese market he doesn't need to put a promo price on the cable because a lot of users favor it. Well, I hope this settles some issues. I decided to not buy a Sun HDAM since I don't believe it'll be right for me and I am still undecided as to whether or not I should get the power cable instead of some pads for my AKGs or a recable. I do know that I'll be placing my Compass order tomorrow morning though and I'm going to be really excited to get it.


----------



## Iyonesco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joewatch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OPA info here.

 Prices about 1/2 way down. Earth $22.50, Moon $25, Sun V2 $30

 I e-mailed to confirm the price, but you could calculate it yourself, just add 4% for paypal fees. I'm sure audio-gd will let you know if you owe more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* 
_You should email Audio-gd first with your order and request a total first, before paying with Paypal. Make sure you confirm in the Paypal message who you are and what you emailed about so they don't get confused._

 

Thanks a lot for the replies. I'll email to confirm the price just to be sure. I think I'll get all three OPAs and try them myself since I can't really tell which one I'd like most from the reviews.


----------



## warrant

Da chip is ad1852,same to zero? how about the bass


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Instead of switching the Earth -Moon and Sun modules, would it be possible to make a Compass with all 3 built in and just a switch so you can choose. In my opinion this might be a good idea, as I am of the impression that most people buy all the OPAs._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm no expert, but that would add more circuitry and potential for noise. I think you generally want to keep the circuits as small as possible_

 

Yes, it would potentially harm sound quality. Also, it is drastically complicated by the potential to use IC's instead of the HDAM's... There are _many_ more choices than the three Audio-gd offers, so building a Compass with only those three would be somewhat limiting. 

 I can definitely see the value in being able to do quick comparisons between the HDAM's, and I'm sure that someone could hack together a diy a/b/c dip socket/switch thingie... but I'm not going to, over concerns about sound quality.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mystere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Mr. Grumpy Beard! I was just asking if anyone was using their pc speakers with their compass and how they were doing it. If the dac out goes to an external dac then no I wouldn't plug it in there - sorry to make that mistake. Thanks for the hint. I kept chopping the ends off my 1/8" plugs and wondering why I could never see the 1's and 0's. Who ever said I bought it? Your post has taught me what a true DAC is.

*D*igital
*A*ngry
*C*ontent



_

 


 Not sure you have the deal here. 

 DAC out is to send to a device that is amplified and has it's own Vol. Control. The level out is fixed.

 Preamp out is for devices that are amplified but do not have a Vol control. For them you use the Vol Control on the Compass.

 I'm thinkin' from waht you said here is that your PC spkrs are probably amplified and have a mini jack. You would need an RCA Male to Mini female Y cable.

 The DAC out and Pre outs are Analog.

Like So


 .


----------



## Skibumef

I received my Compass earlier today. I ordered on March 31st, it was shipped via DHL to the US on Sunday, so pretty darn fast. Box, packing materials, and unit were in perfect condition. Compass is working perfectly, so for those who were still hesitant, order away!

 Here are my very LIMITED impressions from the brief time I have spent listening with it:
 definite, clear improvement over my Headroom Total Bithead. For those with a portable set-up like the Bithead, you will definitely notice the change. I can finally hear the difference between different quality versions of the same song, whereas with the Bithead my 24/96 rip of the SACD "Freewheeling Bob Dylan" sounded no different than the iTunes downloaded version. This has been a common occurrence as I've updated my library with better masters or rips of my favorite albums. I was starting to doubt my ability to hear sonic detail. I was beginning to accept that lossless, HQ music was bogus. I was very sad. Now I am very happy. I can hear what makes those 24/96/SACD/HQ vinyl rips sound so much better. Unfortunately I can also hear what makes other songs sound so crappy.

 My one complaint? I sort of miss the crossfeed from the Bithead. I have been shocked to hear how different some songs sound without it (for example, the distorted guitar opening of The Beatles' Revolution, which is hard panned to one ear). It kind of hurts.

 I will add more in-depth impressions when I feel capable. They will be a whole lot easier to read than this was, I promise.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to rain on the parade, but has any of my fellow baggers heard from Audio-gd as to when their replacement Compass will ship?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this weekend is when cherry said it will ship._

 

Here's my situation. I don't know what to do. Bear with me here.

 As a bagger, I rejected the delivery, per Peete's advice. Then, at the end of the week, Cherry emailed me to call DHL and get them to redeliver. So, I did that. 

 However, they couldn't redeliver for a few days. In the mean time, I left town for a month. I didn't want to redirect the Compass to where I'd be, so I arranged for it to be delivered to my mother's roommate in LA. (I'm new in town and have no friends.) The compass (actually two of them) are at that lady's house, unopened.

 Now, it should be noted that this lady is a very nice person, but totally incompetent. I had brought over my wireless router and set it up for her. When she recently changed ISPs, my mother found my router in the trash. So, I really don't trust her to help me with the compass parts at all.

 This morning, Cherry told me that she would ship the Compass to my current location (yay!), and asked me to check to see if the upgrade cable and the OPAs are working. I said, I can't, they're in LA, but if you want I can just check them when I get back to LA. In a month.

 Now, I guess it wasn't totally clear how long it would be, but she now wants to wait to send me the compass until I get back to LA in a month and can check the OPAs. Realistically, keeping in mind all the variables, I won't see the Compass until May 29 or June 2. (Not enough time for Can Jam, which I wanted to be fully primed for.) I ordered on March 14.

 What do you people think I should tell her? Should I insist that they send it earlier, without the additional OPAs? with the OPAs? The power cable? Should I stick it out? I suspect that my power cable will not have been damaged, but I have no idea how vulnerable the OPAs were in the bag. Is it reasonable to tell them to take a chance and assume the OPAs are fine, but if they're not to ship me some replacements? Maybe I should volunteer to pay the shipping in that event, since that would be another package when they've already bent over backwards for us? I'm a patient guy, but it's going to hurt if I don't see it until memorial day. I really did want to get familiar with it before Can Jam.

 Sorry for the long post. Complicated situation, and I'd love suggestions.


----------



## sandchak

Well if I was in your position, which really is a difficult one. I think I would opt for the option where the Compass is shipped once I am back to the regular address. Reasons:

 1) because in any case I will not be able to listen or burn in the Compass before I reach home (LA).

 2) I can ask Audio GD if they can burn in the Compass for me till they ship, in this way I would have a Compass that has already seen some burn in - although in this case I will miss out experiencing the effect of burning in first hand.

 3) In this way, both Audio GD and I, wont have to wait/worry to know the state of the Compass shipped.

 About the power cable, its pretty strong to endure mishandling and I am quite sure it is in a working condition, but I doubt the same about the OPAMPS, as they look pretty fragile.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About the power cable, its pretty strong to endure mishandling and I am quite sure it is in a working condition, but I doubt the same about the OPAMPS, as they look pretty fragile._

 

I believe there were reports from some of the "baggers" that OPA's arrived completely smashed. So indeed, best not to trust that those are still intact.


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone else noticed the "Compass effect"? Often, I sit here, immersed in music during the evening. Midnight comes along... "Just one more track". 1am... 2am... 3am... and I'm still here, telling myself "Just the one more track"...

 I dread to think how many times I've been - forcefully - kept from my bed by that blasted Kingwa! We all think he's a god - we're wrong. He's the devil, selling superb-quality gear designed to make us fulfil our own desires rather than listen to rational thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 


 You think that's bad? While I am waiting for my Compass to arrive in the mail I am doing that same thing with this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 "Just one more page..." And then its 3:00 am. I sure hope it doesnt get much worse, I get only three hours of sleep before my Tuesdays and Thursdays as it stands.


----------



## Thundernuts

I've fixed my remote control problem with some gaffer tape, a rubber band, 9 volt battery, slow speed electric motor, belt drive pulley wheel, 4 metre extension cord and a centre off toggle switch! so glad i don't need to sell it anymore... (all components available from Jaycar electronics)

 i only use the compass as a DAC and pre-amp, so lack of remote control was very annoying.

 One word to describe this unit as a pre-amp would be CLEAR

 ... perhaps too clear, maybe even DRY. There's certainly _NO_ mellow TUBEY goodness anywhere in sight. 

 I haven't been able to determine whether the dryness of the sound comes from the DAC or headphone amp section, but Kingwa's philosophy points to a very neutral 'pure' signal, so i will assume it is inherant in both.

 I'm using the Moon OPAMP on the Soft-2 setting, anything else i've found so dry it's too fatiguing.

 As a Pre-amp, it is disconcerting how loud the volume level can go without any distortion. Sometimes i don't realise how loud the sound is because it's so clear, i can never hear any distortion... the only way i can tell it is too loud is when i start to get a headache.

 That's the only problem with this unit... IT WILL BUTCHER POORLY RECORDED MATERIAL.

 Well recorded music will sound very 'hi-fi' - dynamic and crystal clear, but you will hear every mistake in anything less than the best recorded music.


----------



## Olev

LOL that is cool engineering!


----------



## nauxolo

Could someone explain the proper way to put on jumpers? Right now, they seem to be just hanging there. Are they supposed to snap in?


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've fixed my remote control problem with some gaffer tape, a rubber band, 9 volt battery, slow speed electric motor, belt drive pulley wheel, 4 metre extension cord and a centre off toggle switch! so glad i don't need to sell it anymore..._

 

Ok, I am now completely convinced you are actually Macgyver!


----------



## Skibumef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could someone explain the proper way to put on jumpers? Right now, they seem to be just hanging there. Are they supposed to snap in?_

 

I had the same problem with the jumpers. They seemed to just be hanging very loose, and I was too timid to give it that little extra push and see if they do in fact snap in. But eventually I sucked it up, and here's the truth- THEY DO! So build up all of the courage you've got and just push down a little bit. Not too hard now. You'll be pleasantly surprised that they snap right into place (almost as if they intended it!). Now of course, make sure you have the jumpers positioned correctly before doing this.


----------



## Skibumef

Ok, I understand why Kingwa did not want to put crossfeed into the Compass. I hear how it does decrease the SQ. So please don't take the following comment as criticism of the unit, more so just a funny observation, OK? Agreed?

 Listening to the Beatles CD's (crappy stereo mix) is PAINFUL! You know that part in the middle of "I Am The Walrus," where the alarm clocks turn into high frequency static, which leads into the strings sort of zooming over to the right channel, and then all of the music is only in the right channel? (It's at 2:00 in most versions) So besides feeling that painful hollow feeling in my left ear, I heard this strange thumping noise. "What is that," I wondered, and then I realized, "Oh, I'm just hearing the sound of my blood pumping through my head. That isn't intense at all."


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Listening to the Beatles CD's (crappy stereo mix) is PAINFUL! You know that part in the middle of "I Am The Walrus," where the alarm clocks turn into high frequency static, which leads into the strings sort of zooming over to the right channel, and then all of the music is only in the right channel? (It's at 2:00 in most versions) So besides feeling that painful hollow feeling in my left ear, I heard this strange thumping noise. "What is that," I wondered, and then I realized, "Oh, I'm just hearing the sound of my blood pumping through my head. That isn't intense at all."_

 

LOL, I think that might actually even be beyond the help of crossfeed. Those stupid panning stereo effects are extremely annoying. Apparently almost all of the Beatles albums were originally mixed as mono and the stereo mixes are just afterthoughts. When they remaster and rerelease them, I think I will buy the mono versions (which are apparently also the only versions where they will leave the "big compression-machine" switched off).


----------



## Denaturat

How about a software crossfeed then? I'll have to start using one when I get my compass, as I hate listening without c-f, now I am using Meier's inbuilt.


----------



## Skibumef

I only feel an ABSOLUTE need for crossfeed on a select few songs. And more often than not, it is the song's fault- it is usually just a crappy mix from an over-zealous producer or engineer. So, I am willing to live without it.


----------



## Starguard

So wait--are you telling me that the compass doesn't have L/R channels? Sorry, I don't understand what crossfeed is.

 I don't think I could listen to Yes's "Leave It" without it!


----------



## Thundernuts

AGGGHHHHH!!

 I've just realised what's been annoying me so much!

 I've noticed a consistent and ongoing ringing in the audio transmission of some TV shows which use live microphones.

 The ringing is very high pitch, maybe about 10-15khz with a sound pressure level of around 90-95 decibel - REALLY LOUD!!

 The ringing sound is only present when the presenter's microphone is switched on. 

 I've noticed it before, but it's ten times worse now that the DAC amplifies EVERYTHING!! even the crap i don't want to hear!!

 I think the cheaper analogue outputs on my set-top box masked this ringing, but now it's really hard to watch some TV shows!!

 I will need to implement a high frequency passive or active EQ or notch filter to cut out the ringing to make some programs more watchable.


----------



## Currawong

You could put the jumpers on to engage the soft settings in the Compass. That would reduce it considerably, especially the "Soft 2" setting with any luck.


----------



## Thundernuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could put the jumpers on to engage the soft settings in the Compass. That would reduce it considerably, especially the "Soft 2" setting with any luck._

 

Yup, done that. Moon OPA with Soft-2 settings. 

 The Moon and Soft-2 is the only setup which i have been able to use with poor quality material, but the ringing is still there, decreased, yes, but still really bad!!

 This is not the fault of the DAC or amp, it's just the crappy broadcast editing quality.


----------



## Mystere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure you have the deal here. 

 DAC out is to send to a device that is amplified and has it's own Vol. Control. The level out is fixed.

 Preamp out is for devices that are amplified but do not have a Vol control. For them you use the Vol Control on the Compass.

 I'm thinkin' from waht you said here is that your PC spkrs are probably amplified and have a mini jack. You would need an RCA Male to Mini female Y cable.

 The DAC out and Pre outs are Analog.

Like So


 ._

 

Thank you for clarifying this. So my original post was correct and I was blasted for it - lol!


----------



## Yikes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denaturat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about a software crossfeed then? I'll have to start using one when I get my compass, as I hate listening without c-f, now I am using Meier's inbuilt._

 

AKG use to offer (Free) a software add-on for Headphone listening, I'll try to remember what it was called and find out if it's available a little latter, once I wake up.


----------



## Yikes

It was called Hearo Player SE, and it wasn't crossfeed. It was a software surround system for headphones. A plug-in for windows media player. Sorry for the confusion.

 Additional info

HEARO Player SE - Headphone Surround Center (Discontinued)

 No longer available, at least from AKG.


----------



## Drosera

It's still available for download here. (Registration info is included.) And it appears compatible with the latest Windows Media Player (at least, in XP x64). However, I can't really try it out at the moment, because I turned my USB sound output into something that will only output music through a ASIO plugin.


----------



## Olev

After all the hassle about no CE marking I received mine! And after technical surveillance cleared it the customs cleared it automatically somehow, so no import taxes


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After all the hassle about no CE marking I received mine! And after technical surveillance cleared it the customs cleared it automatically somehow, so no import taxes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Glad it was allowed into "Fortress Europe" in the end. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So how was the problem with the CE mark solved?


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After all the hassle about no CE marking I received mine! And after technical surveillance cleared it the customs cleared it automatically somehow, so no import taxes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congratulations...I'm glad it worked out for you!


----------



## Denaturat

I think I will start with the crosfeed plugin for Foobar to hear how it compares to Meier's solution.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well if I was in your position, which really is a difficult one. I think I would opt for the option where the Compass is shipped once I am back to the regular address. Reasons:

 1) because in any case I will not be able to listen or burn in the Compass before I reach home (LA).

 2) I can ask Audio GD if they can burn in the Compass for me till they ship, in this way I would have a Compass that has already seen some burn in - although in this case I will miss out experiencing the effect of burning in first hand.

 3) In this way, both Audio GD and I, wont have to wait/worry to know the state of the Compass shipped.

 About the power cable, its pretty strong to endure mishandling and I am quite sure it is in a working condition, but I doubt the same about the OPAMPS, as they look pretty fragile._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe there were reports from some of the "baggers" that OPA's arrived completely smashed. So indeed, best not to trust that those are still intact._

 

Actually, I'm just at my parents' house, not traveling around, so I will definitely be able to burn it in and listen to it. In fact, I just realized that because the second compass is for my father, it really would be much better to send it here. I guess that they could just send it to him directly, but I'd like to be around to help him set it up. The whole computer music thing really befuddles him.

 So after sleeping on it, I think I'll offer to pay for the shipping of the OPAs and cable in event that I go to LA and find them smashed.

 edit: whoops, just checked my email. I had emailed her right away saying, 'I'm bummed, maybe we can figure something out.' She replied that they'll just send me the compasses and OPAs to me here at my parents house. So that's excellent news for me!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mystere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for clarifying this. So my original post was correct and I was blasted for it - lol!_

 

Yup!! 

 .


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

Many compass and other stuff have been sent yesterday, including mine ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit : the payment have been made the 10th.


----------



## op2003

When did you order?


----------



## doping panda

Has anyone besides dBs tried the Sun+Soft2 setting? Currently, I don't think I'm going to be getting a Sun, opting for buying new pads for my Sextetts instead. I'd still like to hear some more impressions before I make a decision though.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After all the hassle about no CE marking I received mine! And after technical surveillance cleared it the customs cleared it automatically somehow, so no import taxes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am so happy for you! Let's have another round!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone besides dBs tried the Sun+Soft2 setting? Currently, I don't think I'm going to be getting a Sun, opting for buying new pads for my Sextetts instead. I'd still like to hear some more impressions before I make a decision though._

 

I did. I tried the soft2 with everything... didn't like it with anything. With all 3 modules (sun earth moon) I prefer bright/neutral depending on the music.... usually bright - even with my Grados...


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did. I tried the soft2 with everything... didn't like it with anything. With all 3 modules (sun earth moon) I prefer bright/neutral depending on the music.... usually bright - even with my Grados..._

 

Thanks, although I think Sun+Bright with Grados would probably kill me after about an hour of listening. The first time I listened to an RS-1 for about an hour my ears were ringing for a few hours.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, although I think Sun+Bright with Grados would probably kill me after about an hour of listening. The first time I listened to an RS-1 for about an hour my ears were ringing for a few hours._

 

Haha yeah I hear ya - my tastes are certainly not for everyone... best part is the potential for variety though


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AGGGHHHHH!!

 I've just realised what's been annoying me so much!

 I've noticed a consistent and ongoing ringing in the audio transmission of some TV shows which use live microphones.

 The ringing is very high pitch, maybe about 10-15khz with a sound pressure level of around 90-95 decibel - REALLY LOUD!!

 The ringing sound is only present when the presenter's microphone is switched on. 

 I've noticed it before, but it's ten times worse now that the DAC amplifies EVERYTHING!! even the crap i don't want to hear!!

 I think the cheaper analogue outputs on my set-top box masked this ringing, but now it's really hard to watch some TV shows!!

 I will need to implement a high frequency passive or active EQ or notch filter to cut out the ringing to make some programs more watchable._

 


 That's feedback...are you sure you have the I/O's setup properly ? I tried mine with a digital cable box using the SPDIF out and had zero weird effects (some delay between sat sync vs live mics and the studio but that's normal). 

 Are you sure you don't have some pseudo surround setting engaged somewhere in the sat/cable box (like DD wide or narrow) ?

 Tell me (or post a pic of the back panels) how you've got her wired up including sat/cable box (including menu settings). Maybe it's something obvious or hidden....

 Peete.


----------



## Zhirc

Any Compass owner listening to minimal techno, d'n'b, "idm", breakcore or other such stuff? Would certainly like to hear how it performs with those styles. 

 Still waiting for my unit coming from the customs... got a very simple reply early this morning (translated again from Finnish): "Hi. Let's do the job." They surely have a large vocabulary over there!
 Anyone else here who's Compass was sent on 8th -- 12th day and has still not managed to get it (exluding the bagged club)?


----------



## oldschool

Mine has also been sent yesterday. Will post when I receive it.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any Compass owner listening to minimal techno, d'n'b, "idm", breakcore or other such stuff? Would certainly like to hear how it performs with those styles. 

 Still waiting for my unit coming from the customs... got a very simple reply early this morning (translated again from Finnish): "Hi. Let's do the job." They surely have a large vocabulary over there!
 Anyone else here who's Compass was sent on 8th -- 12th day and has still not managed to get it (exluding the bagged club)?_

 

I can tell you this - it sounds great with hip-hop. Has great bass response and just feels powerful - not bloated like a subwoofer, but strong and punchy. Itz gotz ballz.


----------



## wdoerr

FYI: Just noticed that my silk screen is not complete. The right edge is cut off. There looks to be about 7 letters missing. I'd bet this is unique and everyone else got a dull, complete silk screen.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, I'm just at my parents' house, not traveling around, so I will definitely be able to burn it in and listen to it. In fact, I just realized that because the second compass is for my father, it really would be much better to send it here. I guess that they could just send it to him directly, but I'd like to be around to help him set it up. The whole computer music thing really befuddles him.

 So after sleeping on it, I think I'll offer to pay for the shipping of the OPAs and cable in event that I go to LA and find them smashed.

 edit: whoops, just checked my email. I had emailed her right away saying, 'I'm bummed, maybe we can figure something out.' She replied that they'll just send me the compasses and OPAs to me here at my parents house. So that's excellent news for me!_

 

My OPA's looks intact..but I have no way to test it since my Compass unit is not working due to a smashed preamp switch. I told Cherry that. I think they are shipping only the Compass for me. I just hope atleast one out of the 3 OPA's work with the new Compass...!!


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My OPA's looks intact..but I have no way to test it since my Compass unit is not working due to a smashed preamp switch. I told Cherry that. I think they are shipping only the Compass for me. I just hope atleast one out of the 3 OPA's work with the new Compass...!!_

 

Yeah, that occurred to me, too. How could you tell if the OPAs are working if the Compass isn't? 

 So what did you work out with Cherry? She's sending a Compass with no OPAs? Then what if any of the OPAs are broken? She'll send a second package?

 That would really suck if all were out and you had to wait another week for your OPAs to arrive.

 Oh man, I have to say, this wait is getting hard!


----------



## thelsuman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had the same problem with the jumpers. They seemed to just be hanging very loose, and I was too timid to give it that little extra push and see if they do in fact snap in. But eventually I sucked it up, and here's the truth- THEY DO! So build up all of the courage you've got and just push down a little bit. Not too hard now. You'll be pleasantly surprised that they snap right into place (almost as if they intended it!). Now of course, make sure you have the jumpers positioned correctly before doing this._

 

Thanks for this information. I too was unsure about the jumpers & after an attempt to push them down VERY gently, decided that they must be meant to sit loosely. So, I have been operating my Compass in what I thought was soft2 mode...but now I'm guessing that the jumpers were never properly engaged 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll look forward to trying it with the jumpers properly pushed in...maybe this will change my impression of the Sun HDAM, which has sounded so harsh to my ears. On a separate note, I'm really loving the Compass with the Senn HD650's- my jazz recordings never sounded so good before!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arcer63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You think that's bad? While I am waiting for my Compass to arrive in the mail I am doing that same thing with this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 "Just one more page..." And then its 3:00 am. I sure hope it doesnt get much worse, I get only three hours of sleep before my Tuesdays and Thursdays as it stands.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If you think the forums are bad, get yourself a motorbike. The first few times you ride it, it's just so overwhelmingly intoxicating... I doubt myself still out and about at gone 3am. Cool weather and no traffic just made it even better...

 ...though I'm betting that 3 months after starting, I wasn't still out in the early hours. But I am with the Compass, so I guess I've not made any real point at all... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, that occurred to me, too. How could you tell if the OPAs are working if the Compass isn't? 

 So what did you work out with Cherry? She's sending a Compass with no OPAs? Then what if any of the OPAs are broken? She'll send a second package?

 That would really suck if all were out and you had to wait another week for your OPAs to arrive.

 Oh man, I have to say, this wait is getting hard!_

 

I just told that I had no way to test the OPA's eventhough it looked intact, asked if there was any other way to test it...she just emailed me saying they will mail the compass this weekend. Didn't specify with/without OPA and I didn't really push it, just let them make the decision. I am a bit optimistic that they would work, so thought I will test my luck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The wait has stretched for one month now...so few more days won't make a big difference.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any Compass owner listening to minimal techno, d'n'b, "idm", breakcore or other such stuff? Would certainly like to hear how it performs with those styles. 

 Still waiting for my unit coming from the customs... got a very simple reply early this morning (translated again from Finnish): "Hi. Let's do the job." They surely have a large vocabulary over there!
 Anyone else here who's Compass was sent on 8th -- 12th day and has still not managed to get it (exluding the bagged club)?_

 

Hmm I don't have much minimal trance. But I do have Atmos - Headcleaner and the bass is excellent, on the HD650 and through my speakers using the Compass as DAC.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you think the forums are bad, get yourself a motorbike. The first few times you ride it, it's just so overwhelmingly intoxicating... I doubt myself still out and about at gone 3am. Cool weather and no traffic just made it even better...

 ...though I'm betting that 3 months after starting, I wasn't still out in the early hours. But I am with the Compass, so I guess I've not made any real point at all... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

I was exactly the same! Must have used so much petrol the first month I was riding... and there was me thinking a CBR 600 would be economical... not when you are out all hours of the day and night! Amazing feeling though - just not when you come off


----------



## warrant

audio-gd webpage says:dac19mk3 with usb port coming soon .it's a pure mini dac,da chip is pcm1704,much better than compass(ad1852). wait for that.


----------



## doping panda

Ok, just placed my order for a Compass+OPA Moon. I decided the Sun probably isn't for me and that I think getting different pads for my AKGs or saving up for an eventual source, amp, or can upgrade will serve me better at the moment than an upgraded power cable. I might end up getting one anyways later on, but at this moment in time I feel I made a good decision. Now that I placed my order, now comes the hard part: waiting for the Compass to arrive.


----------



## Starguard

Just to bump my question:

 So wait--are you telling me that the compass doesn't have L/R channels? Sorry, I don't understand what crossfeed is.

 I don't think I could listen to Yes's "Leave It" without it!


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to bump my question:

 So wait--are you telling me that the compass doesn't have L/R channels? Sorry, I don't understand what crossfeed is.

 I don't think I could listen to Yes's "Leave It" without it!_

 

Read here about crossfeed. 

About the HeadRoom Crossfeed - HeadRoom: The World's Best Headphone Audio Store


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to bump my question:

 So wait--are you telling me that the compass doesn't have L/R channels? Sorry, I don't understand what crossfeed is.

 I don't think I could listen to Yes's "Leave It" without it!_

 

Of course you are talking about the a Capella version...

 .


----------



## Thundernuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's feedback...are you sure you have the I/O's setup properly ? I tried mine with a digital cable box using the SPDIF out and had zero weird effects (some delay between sat sync vs live mics and the studio but that's normal). 

 Are you sure you don't have some pseudo surround setting engaged somewhere in the sat/cable box (like DD wide or narrow) ?

 Tell me (or post a pic of the back panels) how you've got her wired up including sat/cable box (including menu settings). Maybe it's something obvious or hidden....

 Peete._

 

Using Optical (TOSLINK) output on receiver - mode set to stereo. 

 Have compared different channels- the ringing only appears on _SOME_ programs using live or studio mics and disappears if i change to another program or when the studio or voice-over mic is off. 

 The ringing was still there when i bypassed the compass using the analogue outputs on the digi box, it was just more subdued.

 I think the fault is in the broadcast material, not the hardware.

 The fault wouldn't be noticed by most people because the frequency is beyond the hearing range of most people over 40.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thundernuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Using Optical (TOSLINK) output on receiver - mode set to stereo. 

 Have compared different channels- the ringing only appears on SOME programs using live or studio mics and disappears if i change to another program or when the studio or voice-over mic is off. 

 The ringing was still there when i bypassed the compass using the analogue outputs on the digi box, it was just more subdued.

 I think the fault is in the broadcast material, not the hardware.

 The fault wouldn't be noticed by most people because the frequency is beyond the hearing range of most people over 40._

 


 LOL....then why bother with the other posts ? What you need is a feedback destroyer (Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro works fairly well but why doesn't the broadcaster have this gear is the bigger question here ?) but I feel that's an unnecessary purchase in your case...what YOU should be doing is complaining to the broadcasters that continuously make this agregious audio error...this is sound man incompetence sorry to say that happens very rarely on this side of the pond.

 At first I didn't think you were serious but apparently you are (somewhat). So I have to ask what exactly did you expect the Compass to do given a poor signal like this ?

 The old saying (and I'm over 40 BTW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 well over by now , sniff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) is garbage in garbage out.

 Have a good one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 Peete.


----------



## Thundernuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL....then why bother with the other posts ? What you need is a feedback destroyer (Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro works fairly well but why doesn't the broadcaster have this gear is the bigger question here ?) but I feel that's an unnecessary purchase in your case...what YOU should be doing is complaining to the broadcasters that continuously make this agregious audio error...this is sound man incompetence sorry to say that happens very rarely on this side of the pond.

 At first I didn't think you were serious but apparently you are (somewhat). So I have to ask what exactly did you expect the Compass to do given a poor signal like this ?

 The old saying (and I'm over 40 BTW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well over by now , sniff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) is garbage in garbage out.

 Have a good one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 Peete._

 

Yeh, i've contacted the broadcaster.

 My point is that the Compass will reveal EVERYTHING, especially stuff that was previously filtered or masked. 

 Since I'm only using the Compass as a DAC / Pre-Amp, the next step will probably involve a programmable DSP processor / EQ like the Rane RPM-26z.


----------



## sandchak

Reading all this kind of gives me a pleasure ( I don't mean anything bad ) being a Compass owner myself, that this stuff no matter how lowly priced, it has all the qualities of a Hi-end gear, one of which is that it is very revealing.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reading all this kind of gives me a pleasure ( I don't mean anything bad ) being a Compass owner myself, that this stuff no matter how lowly priced, it has all the qualities of a Hi-end gear, one of which is that it is very revealing._

 

I know how you feel. I don't even have my Compass yet, but reading posts like this makes me even more excited to get it. Man, the next week or so is gonna be terrible for me.


----------



## cyberidd

I got my Compass yesterday via EMS. It got here in one piece, and in a box. Although 2 of the corners were kind of crunched, the Compass itself is in find working order, as are the cables and the Moon and Sun. I currently have it hooked up to my computer through USB since I don't (yet) have any other ways to hook it up. Anyway, I will give a short beginner's review of the Earth, Sun and Moon with Compass in a couple days when I've had a fit more time with it. In the mean time, I have a couple questions. First, how should I in about getting optical or other hookups for my computer - I really have no idea what kind of product, quality, where, etc. Second, my DT990s are what I've been using on Compass so far and I'm really enjoying it, but every once in a while I get a pop in one of the cups. This is only something that happens once in a while and is not part of the recordings. Whats the cause of this and how can I fix it? Its rather annoying to hear when you just start getting into the music.


----------



## sandchak

Whats the software you are using to hear music through your PC?

 Do you have a CD/DVD player? maybe you can hook up the CD/DVD player to Compass and see if you get the same pop noise..

 EDIT - About optical connection, check your sound card (rear of the computer and see if it has any optical out socket), if there is, you can use the optical cable which came with the Compass, and connect the both ends of the cable - one to the computer sound card, and another to the Compass optical socket.


----------



## cyberidd

I have Foobar2000 hooked playing CDs and then whatever stuff came with my computer between there and the Compass. The thing is I have never heard ANY pops plugging straight into the Computer, but now when I use Compass some of them are pretty big.


----------



## cyberidd

I checked my computer front and back when hooking it up initially, and couldn't spot an optical out, so I just used the USB.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have Foobar2000 hooked playing CDs and then whatever stuff came with my computer between there and the Compass. The thing is I have never heard ANY pops plugging straight into the Computer, but now when I use Compass some of them are pretty big._

 

Well I had the same problem with Foobar when I connected Compass (through USB), I had to make some adjustments to the buffer and some other settings.. I dont know much about these softwares myself, which is why I asked if you have any CD/DVD player with optical out, which can be connected to Compass, in this way you can at least find out if its the problem with Compass or PC/Foobar settings..


----------



## cyberidd

I'll see if I can borrow my dad's CD player and see if it has an optical out I could try. Its not a problem much of the time, but every once in a while - POP!


----------



## cyberidd

Current Foobar settings: Output-USB DAC (Compass); Buffer length-1500 ms; Output format-16 bit. Should I change any of these?


----------



## sandchak

Yes, I understand what you are saying, it was the same thing with me.. I just cant figure out what adjustments I made to the Foobar and the pop thing disappeared.. there are many out here who are very knowledgeable about Foobar, I am sure one of them will pop in soon and help you out..


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Current Foobar settings: Output-USB DAC (Compass); Buffer length-1500 ms; Output format-16 bit. Should I change any of these?_

 

change the buffer length to 5000ms and see?


----------



## Hot Pixel

Am I the only one that thinks the compass is just nice? I don't have the feeling I want to marry it, nor am I awestruck by how different everything sounds. Everything sounds kind of the same. Clearer, for sure; but it's not something that makes me want to (-by the need to-) change underwear.
 Sure I had my moments where I thought "WTH?!?!" (turned out to be the creaking bench of the organ player lol), which is very neat, but still. 
 It's probably my nickel ears talking, so you may take it with a grain of salt (as per usual)

 But I do think it would be good for us, as a community, to turn down our hype-o-meter a bit and try to maintain the credibility this device and this community both deserve. Because it really is a good device. But it's just that. A good device.

 I'm not trying to flame here or something; it's nice to be euphoric once in a while. But this is lasting 408 pages already. It might be time to sober up a bit.
 aye?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Current Foobar settings: Output-USB DAC (Compass); Buffer length-1500 ms; Output format-16 bit. Should I change any of these?_

 

Hard to say. You could just fiddle around with them, see if it makes a change. For example, try switching to 32-bit. If that doesn't work you might try the older build of foobar (0.8) with the otachan plugins, or perhaps a different media player like Media Monkey (also with Otachan ASIO).

This post may also help.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I the only one that thinks the compass is just nice? I don't have the feeling I want to marry it, nor am I awestruck by how different everything sounds. Everything sounds kind of the same. Clearer, for sure; but it's not something that makes me want to (-by the need to-) change underwear.
 Sure I had my moments where I thought "WTH?!?!" (turned out to be the creaking bench of the organ player lol), which is very neat, but still. 
 It's probably my nickel ears talking, so you may take it with a grain of salt (as per usual)

 But I do think it would be good for us, as a community, to turn down our hype-o-meter a bit and try to maintain the credibility this device and this community both deserve. Because it really is a good device. But it's just that. A good device.

 I'm not trying to flame here or something; it's nice to be euphoric once in a while. But this is lasting 408 pages already. It might be time to sober up a bit.
 aye?_

 

How many hours do you have on yours ?

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I the only one that thinks the compass is just nice? I don't have the feeling I want to marry it, nor am I awestruck by how different everything sounds. Everything sounds kind of the same. Clearer, for sure; but it's not something that makes me want to (-by the need to-) change underwear.
 Sure I had my moments where I thought "WTH?!?!" (turned out to be the creaking bench of the organ player lol), which is very neat, but still. 
 It's probably my nickel ears talking, so you may take it with a grain of salt (as per usual)

 But I do think it would be good for us, as a community, to turn down our hype-o-meter a bit and try to maintain the credibility this device and this community both deserve. Because it really is a good device. But it's just that. A good device.

 I'm not trying to flame here or something; it's nice to be euphoric once in a while. But this is lasting 408 pages already. It might be time to sober up a bit.
 aye?_

 

I had a good chuckle at this. I agree with it though, but to the point I understand that people for whom this is their first bit of solid head-fi gear beyond their headphones will obviously be quite amazed with the upgrade from their onboard sound and want to express that.

 You'll find that the traffic in this thread is considerably lower than it would be had I not written the FAQ. The traffic in the Zero thread, for example, dropped dramatically after I created a FAQ answering all the common questions. So, we are left with mostly other discussion. A lot of this relates to the HDAMs, which can be fun to play around with and educational for the end user.

 It's been interesting for me watching how this has progressed and the reaction to it though. It has been quite epic. I hope everyone is enjoying their music.


----------



## ExtraNice

My package that was shipped on the 17th has arrived in Australia. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 \o/

 Great news!

 So what should I be listening out for with my compass?
 Greater separation
 Tighter, baster bass
 Less sibilance

 Anything else?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I the only one that thinks the compass is just nice? I don't have the feeling I want to marry it, nor am I awestruck by how different everything sounds. Everything sounds kind of the same. Clearer, for sure; but it's not something that makes me want to (-by the need to-) change underwear.
 Sure I had my moments where I thought "WTH?!?!" (turned out to be the creaking bench of the organ player lol), which is very neat, but still. 
 It's probably my nickel ears talking, so you may take it with a grain of salt (as per usual)_

 

You're right to a degree, but then again, hype is what this forum is about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But seriously, like Curra said, the Compass is for many people their first really good entry into DAC and amp territory. People or hearing music like they never heard it before, perhaps even never imagined it could sound like this. It's more or less equivalent to people getting their first taste of good headphones.

 That said, it ain't all 'noob-talk'. Some far more experienced members, who are capable of a much more comprehensive perspective on the Compass's relative quality, have also said very positive things about it.

 The quality of the Compass is most apparent for me in the way that it can hugely improve with the quality of digital input. Honestly, I still think that a lot of people here are not tapping anywhere near the full potential of their Compass. USB is nice, I guess. ASIO4all is better. A dedicated soundcard with good ASIO, an E-MU or M-Audio USB receiver or real ASIO drivers is a major leap. (At least, this I conclude from my own and other people's experiences.) And of course a good optical disc transport works miracles too.

 And, like Peete implied, the Compass will improve in the first few 100 hours of use. They are very significant too, yet it's easy to make too much of these improvements.

 But, to end on a note of slight disagreement, I think the Compass is more than just 'nice'. It's simply amazing for what it offers for it's price. Yes, there's far better to be had. A lot of stuff is so much better that you couldn't even reliably compare it to the Compass. But then your looking at pricetags that are incomparable to the Compass price as well.

 Anyways, I like all this 'hype'. It shows people are enjoying their music and that's what this site is really about, after all.


----------



## cyberidd

So a bit of an update, I've changed the Foobar settings so they are 5000ms buffer and 32bit output, and so far there have been no problems with pops. It sometimes happened a lot and other times wouldn't happen at all though so I think it'll take a bit more listening for me to be fully convinced that its fixed. Anyways, thanks for all the help!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I the only one that thinks the compass is just nice?_

 

Not really.. there was another person who felt Compass was OK, but he never followed with further impressions, I was looking forward to it because it was his out of the Box impressions.. or maybe he did write afterwards and I overlooked his post.

 That said, as per my belief and many others in this thread, both noobs and experienced people, Compass's true potential is realized further with time (burn in) and source, well we have also seen that it depends on the application. I have personally heard the difference starting from MP3 files, to FLAC, and both my CD players NADC541i and Marantz CD17, and the improvements I have experienced was from leaps and bounds, just like you start off with just nice, then good and then really good.. and then it went to excellent or even WOW !

 So give it a little time to burn in, try and improve the source and I am sure the Compass will start showing its true potential.

 Which is why I feel to come to a judgment that its just nice without looking into the above things, to me it is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ..


----------



## Hot Pixel

@ everybody who replied to my statement:
 I'm not disappointed in the compass. On the contrary. But people treat like it's the second coming and it might get people like me (e.g. 'noobs') riled up for something that's perhaps not what they expected it to be (again; I'm thoroughly satisfied with the compass).
 I've been here not so long, but only after getting the HD414 pads for my SR225 I'm beginning understand that alot of talk is somewhat hyperbolic to a degree (must be careful now... I mean it in a good way: it is supposed to be like that, but it takes a while to figure out).

 To 'untrained' ears like mine the difference in sound might be much more subtle than is suggested by the pros (who know their stuff). Sure the compass makes a difference; but not so much that you can say it's been like listening to music underwater compared to what you're hearing now. If I put such a statement through my hyperbole filter I get _exactly_ what you mean. However; this might be something most of us newbs (who, incidentially could be the target group price-wise, and are more sensitive to hype) might not know yet.

 If I say to somebody my heart is on fire for this one particular girl everybody understands I don't mean that literally. But if I say my integrated soundcard is -in hindsight- rubbish, and it sounds like grinding coffee in a steelwork factory compared to the compass I create expectations that cannot be met by somebody with no experience in audio-equipment (or, more specifically: audophile-standards). 
 And if you don't understand hyperbole is necessary to make yourself clear you go in and expect the end of the world music-wise. Which is simply not the case. Cause your music still remains the same. It maybe (likely) sound different, but it's still the same music (in most cases, for most untrained ears)

 As for the compass: I needed a versatile dac/amp for practicality reasons and I've found one in the compass. I bought it on a whim, thanks to the hype. 
 I'm extremely happy, and it gives me alot of joy. But I'm to inexperienced to enjoy it like most of you do (blissful ignorance).

 I don't consider myself an audiophile. Far from it (Audiophallic at most 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). But the biggest change in my music was not because of the change in equipment; it was by re-learning how to listen to it. Something which you all helped me do.

 Gah. I'm hoping I make myself clear here


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I the only one that thinks the compass is just nice? I don't have the feeling I want to marry it, nor am I awestruck by how different everything sounds. Everything sounds kind of the same. Clearer, for sure; but it's not something that makes me want to (-by the need to-) change underwear.
 Sure I had my moments where I thought "WTH?!?!" (turned out to be the creaking bench of the organ player lol), which is very neat, but still. 
 It's probably my nickel ears talking, so you may take it with a grain of salt (as per usual)

 But I do think it would be good for us, as a community, to turn down our hype-o-meter a bit and try to maintain the credibility this device and this community both deserve. Because it really is a good device. But it's just that. A good device.

 I'm not trying to flame here or something; it's nice to be euphoric once in a while. But this is lasting 408 pages already. It might be time to sober up a bit.
 aye?_

 

Indeed, I can agree with you. The Compass does sound clean, perhaps too clean for some people but I can see where you're coming from.

 However, the value of this device is simply outstanding. At $300, I'm hard-pressed to find a competing amp/DAC combo that can give me an equal performance.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ everybody who replied to my statement:
 I'm not disappointed in the compass. On the contrary. But people treat like it's the second coming and it might get people like me (e.g. 'noobs') riled up for something that's perhaps not what they expected it to be (again; I'm thoroughly satisfied with the compass).
 I've been here not so long, but only after getting the HD414 pads for my SR225 I'm beginning understand that alot of talk is somewhat hyperbolic to a degree (must be careful now... I mean it in a good way: it is supposed to be like that, but it takes a while to figure out).

 To 'untrained' ears like mine the difference in sound might be much more subtle than is suggested by the pros (who know their stuff). Sure the compass makes a difference; but not so much that you can say it's been like listening to music underwater compared to what you're hearing now. If I put such a statement through my hyperbole filter I get exactly what you mean. However; this might be something most of us newbs (who, incidentially could be the target group price-wise, and are more sensitive to hype) might not know yet._

 

Don't worry, I think most of us understood what you were saying, I just wanted to present my view point on it. You're right, this entire forum should come with a "hyperbole warning label". And yet all the superlatives used on the forum here are only partly a ways to get one's point across. Mostly they are a genuine reflection of the strong emotions (likes and dislikes) this equipment awakes in us. I can certainly think of headphones I hate. Hate to the extent that I'd rather not listen to music at all, than listen to it through those headphones.

 But, yes, it takes a good while to learn to use this forum. To know what sort of opinions to trust and what to ignore. Now and then there are also people (rest assured, I'm definitely not suggesting you're one of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) who buy a lot of expensive gear and have to conclude that they can't hear the difference with the cheap stuff they used to listen to music earlier. Some of those people report it in the forums, I think a lot more just disappear from this forum enormously disappointed.

 So, hyperbole certainly has its victims.


----------



## Haoting

I doubt a Compass + Panther at a combined cost of $668 will sound any better than my $150 Xiangsheng H-80BIII tube hybrid amplifier using computer FLAC/MP3 files and USB as source hooked up to my Swans M1 bookshelf speakers.

 Some of you guys should try listening to tubes instead of transistor (solid state) audio equipment. The general consensus in the Hi-Fi world is that tubes have a warmer and more musical sound. I find the tube sound is much more comfortable to listen to for extended periods.

Hefei XiangSheng Electronic Co.,Ltd




 Xiangsheng H-80BIII


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gah. I'm hoping I make myself clear here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You are. I think what you say is very balanced. There's a segment of Head-fi "old-timers" who are very strongly against hype.

 You make a very good point about more experienced listeners considering differences to be bigger than people new to hi-fidelity audio, who, I think would be most sensitive to tonal changes more than anything.

 The significance of changes when components are updated has been on my mind a lot lately. I was actually thinking, for example, of changing the mention of the power cord in the FAQ to a suggestion that if you have top-of-the-range regular headphones (Senn HD-600/650, AKG 5/6/701, etc) that you might notice an improvement in detail/clarity etc, but probably wouldn't make as much of a noticeable improvement if your cans are lower down on the scale.

 Go the long sentences....anyway...


----------



## pete~

can the compass dac have two outputs at the same time? 

 What I mean is I want a variable output on the rca and the headphones. If not, then I want one variable while the other fixed.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I the only one that thinks the compass is just nice? I don't have the feeling I want to marry it, nor am I awestruck by how different everything sounds. Everything sounds kind of the same. Clearer, for sure; but it's not something that makes me want to (-by the need to-) change underwear.
 Sure I had my moments where I thought "WTH?!?!" (turned out to be the creaking bench of the organ player lol), which is very neat, but still. 
 It's probably my nickel ears talking, so you may take it with a grain of salt (as per usual)

 But I do think it would be good for us, as a community, to turn down our hype-o-meter a bit and try to maintain the credibility this device and this community both deserve. Because it really is a good device. But it's just that. A good device.

 I'm not trying to flame here or something; it's nice to be euphoric once in a while. But this is lasting 408 pages already. It might be time to sober up a bit.
 aye?_

 

Am I flaming you, no. I'm just saying this is not hype, it's just very exciting to get something of this build quality, with these parts used for only $258. So before anyone starts saying, OMG mbd is just ripping on another poster, no I'm not. I'm asking this poster a legitimate question related to his response. And his response ONLY, no one else.

 No loss of SQ or quality of sound as people are able to switch from DAC out/Pre-Amp, or just using as is for headphones. What earth-shattering experience were you looking for in a product that only costs $258 and probably under $500 in the future? You just spent next to nothing. Even a cheaply made DACs are often sold for more than the Compass' current price tag and they sell those DAC with a 10 Watt toroidal. Really show me another option with a 50 watt toroidal with a massive rectifier for an audio equipment of this size. And then a DAC with USB/Coax/Optical input using the best PCM2707 USB input possible on the market, with a I2S design to a well implemented AD1852 D/A? And then using the DIR9001 to keep jitter to a minimal? And add to that a true, full Class A Discrete Amplifer. The DAC having an all discrete output using a true discrete HDAM as a buffer. Really where else can us fortunate Compass users have looked for a better deal for our money?

 This issue wasn't over, the Compass is the "best" DAC/Amp combo around. I will never go to someone who has a Lavry DA11 and say, rofl, my Compass is better than yours. But if I read in a thread of someone saying, hey I'm on a budget and looking for the best deal for price/performance margin I can find, then I will mention the Compass. Cause with all that I mentioned above, Kingwa still made sure you are getting locking Neutrik Jack, an Alps Blue Velvet, massive audio grade Nover capacitors, Dale/Vishay resistors and only using audio grade "exact" matched transistors by Toshiba and Hitachi. 

 Often people will note you can DIY a better product with better parts than a commercial product. It's a challenge for anyone to be able to create something as substantial as the Compass, but challenge is also, they have to use their own *NEW *and *ORIGINAL *design. Not just a cough out, I can make a Dynali for for same amount, that's Gilmore's design, not theirs, but even then they have to fit in a DAC within the same cost it makes for just the Amp. Because that's what Kingwa did, he wasn't like Justin at HeadAmp who just used someone else's, granted tried and true Gilmore design to sell commercially. Kingwa presented his own design using his own philosophy for audio. Kingwa presented to us a new product, something no one has ever seen, something new for veterans to look over and have fun with. Kingwa could have cut corners in so many places but didn't. So that is the challenge, creating your own *ORIGINAL* designed Amp and DAC for $258 using boutique audio parts! Even down to an all aluminum volume and input selector knobs with aluminum push buttons. The only plastic on I see is the red push tab on top of the massive Neutrik jack. Have you even looked to see how much it costs to have an all aluminum painted casing? The Compass has a 8mm thick paneling! 

 Also Customer Service is very costly and time consuming. Answering our questions. I can't imagine how many times Cherry/Kingwa must have answered the exact same questions from numerous customers. And then taking the time to explain in the best way possible as them being Chinese and we english speaking. Keeping his website as informative and clean as possible and updated. Responding to Head-Fier's suggestions with actual implementation in the product. So really for $258, I don't think it would even cover the costs for parts and *"SERVICE"* that Audio-gd has offered us if it was built by anyone else.

 So before insulting some of the other very excited users, including myself, I ask what was it were you expecting for $258? And what is your experience with Audio equipment to be able to say we are disillusioned?


----------



## Hot Pixel

Whoa whoa mb. Take some deep breaths, because I'm under the impression you misinterpretet my genuine 'concern'. 
 Let me start of by saying that if I gave you the feeling I insulted you I'm truly sorry, for it was not my intention. 
 That being said; I don't like the words you put into my mouth. I never said that anybody was disillusioned. Not only do I find it extremely childish to badmouth people (really, it's not my style), I even think it's beautiful that you guys can get so passionate about your audio-equipment (As you should, imo). 

 The only point I was trying to make was that somebody like me (with nickel ears (and what does that tell you about my experience?)) might walk away disillusioned because somebody like me can't (yet) appreciate the nuances a machine like this might give to somebody like you. I needed to bring this up to tame the hype a bit, because it kind of overshadows what's good about the device, strangely enough.

 I do wish to add this though, on a more personal note: You seem like an intelligent human being, since your entire argument was well thought out, and sums up pretty much everything on how I feel about the DAC. From it's excellent build quality, to the incredible service (in fact I am better looked after by Audio-GD then my own mother -to hyperbole it up a bit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




-). So in the future it might pay to look at how others (like Currawong, Drosera, K3CT) reacted to my post, and from that deduct how my comment was probably intended. 

 On a sidenote: You (indirectly) led me to the compass, and I'm thankful for it. So thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I flaming you, no. I'm just saying this is not hype, it's just very exciting to get something of this build quality, with these parts used for only $258. So before anyone starts saying, OMG mbd is just ripping on another poster, no I'm not. I'm asking this poster a legitimate question related to his response. And his response ONLY, no one else.

 No loss of SQ or quality of sound as people are able to switch from DAC out/Pre-Amp, or just using as is for headphones. What earth-shattering experience were you looking for in a product that only costs $258 and probably under $500 in the future? You just spent next to nothing. Even a cheaply made DACs are often sold for more than the Compass' current price tag and they sell those DAC with a 10 Watt toroidal. Really show me another option with a 50 watt toroidal with a massive rectifier for an audio equipment of this size. And then a DAC with USB/Coax/Optical input using the best PCM2707 USB input possible on the market, with a I2S design to a well implemented AD1852 D/A? And then using the DIR9001 to keep jitter to a minimal? And add to that a true, full Class A Discrete Amplifer. The DAC having an all discrete output using a true discrete HDAM as a buffer. Really where else can us fortunate Compass users have looked for a better deal for our money?

 This issue wasn't over, the Compass is the "best" DAC/Amp combo around. I will never go to someone who has a Lavry DA11 and say, rofl, my Compass is better than yours. But if I read in a thread of someone saying, hey I'm on a budget and looking for the best deal for price/performance margin I can find, then I will mention the Compass. Cause with all that I mentioned above, Kingwa still made sure you are getting locking Neutrik Jack, an Alps Blue Velvet, massive audio grade Nover capacitors, Dale/Vishay resistors and only using audio grade "exact" matched transistors by Toshiba and Hitachi. 

 Often people will note you can DIY a better product with better parts than a commercial product. It's a challenge for anyone to be able to create something as substantial as the Compass, but challenge is also, they have to use their own *NEW *and *ORIGINAL *design. Not just a cough out, I can make a Dynali for for same amount, that's Gilmore's design, not theirs, but even then they have to fit in a DAC within the same cost it makes for just the Amp. Because that's what Kingwa did, he wasn't like Justin at HeadAmp who just used someone else's, granted tried and true Gilmore design to sell commercially. Kingwa presented his own design using his own philosophy for audio. Kingwa presented to us a new product, something no one has ever seen, something new for veterans to look over and have fun with. Kingwa could have cut corners in so many places but didn't. So that is the challenge, creating your own *ORIGINAL* designed Amp and DAC for $258 using boutique audio parts! Even down to an all aluminum volume and input selector knobs with aluminum push buttons. The only plastic on I see is the red push tab on top of the massive Neutrik jack. Have you even looked to see how much it costs to have an all aluminum painted casing? The Compass has a 8mm thick paneling! 

 Also Customer Service is very costly and time consuming. Answering our questions. I can't imagine how many times Cherry/Kingwa must have answered the exact same questions from numerous customers. And then taking the time to explain in the best way possible as them being Chinese and we english speaking. Keeping his website as informative and clean as possible and updated. Responding to Head-Fier's suggestions with actual implementation in the product. So really for $258, I don't think it would even cover the costs for parts and *"SERVICE"* that Audio-gd has offered us if it was built by anyone else.

 So before insulting some of the other very excited users, including myself, I ask what was it were you expecting for $258? And what is your experience with Audio equipment to be able to say we are disillusioned?_

 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can the compass dac have two outputs at the same time? 

 What I mean is I want a variable output on the rca and the headphones. If not, then I want one variable while the other fixed._

 

Nope, don't think so, the FAQ mentions the pre-amp switch diverts the signal from the front to the back. I'm probably wrong though; so you might want to wait until somebody knowledgeable comes along.


----------



## WC Annihilus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can the compass dac have two outputs at the same time? 

 What I mean is I want a variable output on the rca and the headphones. If not, then I want one variable while the other fixed._

 

From what I recall, someone asked this earlier and ended asking Kingwa directly, the response being not stock, but that it was possible for it to be wired that way provided you were willing to wait a week or so longer


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whoa whoa mb. Take some deep breaths, because I'm under the impression you misinterpretet my genuine 'concern'. 
 Let me start of by saying that if I gave you the feeling I insulted you I'm truly sorry, for it was not my intention. 
 That being said; I don't like the words you put into my mouth. I never said that anybody was disillusioned. Not only do I find it extremely childish to badmouth people (really, it's not my style), I even think it's beautiful that you guys can get so passionate about your audio-equipment (As you should, imo). 

 The only point I was trying to make was that somebody like me (with nickel ears (and what does that tell you about my experience?)) might walk away disillusioned because somebody like me can't (yet) appreciate the nuances a machine like this might give to somebody like you. I needed to bring this up to tame the hype a bit, because it kind of overshadows what's good about the device, strangely enough.

 I do wish to add this though, on a more personal note: You seem like an intelligent human being, since your entire argument was well thought out, and sums up pretty much everything on how I feel about the DAC. From it's excellent build quality, to the incredible service (in fact I am better looked after by Audio-GD then my own mother -to hyperbole it up a bit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





-). So in the future it might pay to look at how others (like Currawong, Drosera, K3CT) reacted to my post, and from that deduct how my comment was probably intended. 

 On a sidenote: You (indirectly) led me to the compass, and I'm thankful for it. So thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah my post was a bit long, and it wasn't an attack, just a question with massive rebuttal.

 In short, I don't look at this Compass as hype but just enthusiasm and appreciation from people who found a great budget option but still able to get quality parts, design, workmanship and service.

 That's how I would describe the Compass, a great option when you need something of high utility use but on budget. I don't think it will ever be replacing a Grace M902 for example, but who knows.


----------



## ecclesand

NM


----------



## K3cT

...


----------



## ddeell72

Nice !!!


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Haoting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_....._

 

Is this even appropriate?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gosh...OK. Well thanks for the input.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This guys posts are always like this. He's always off topic and shilling something.

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This guys posts are always like this. He's always off topic and shilling something.

 ._

 

Funny, first it was the Dussun T2i, now all of a sudden he's been converted to tubes.


----------



## Zanth

Hot Pixel, I wrote something similarly a bunch of pages back but I qualified my statement by mentioning that although this isn't the be-all and end-all of audio what one is getting for $258 bucks is just so out of this world incredible that the hype is centered around value for the dollar (at least my enthusiasm is for the product).

 The sound is excellent and the ability to change it up (I'm enamored with soft 2 and the Moon for long listening sessions while at work) to suit one's needs is over-the-top value for something in this price range. Add an excellent discrete amp and one can honestly sit back and wonder if they are of the type that needs to approach the last 10% of audio. The climb up the mountain of audio nirvana is steep, put another way, the spending is exponential compared with audible returns. Build quality can increase, exotic parts, panelling, casing etc., can be used or more complicated topologies with far more robust power supplies can be incorporated, but at what cost?

 Think of it like this:

 An audiophile wants something at the office or at home hooked up to the computer, or... at least wants access to digital files. Many will recommend an iPod (160 Classic) at minimum but others will consider pushing for the iTransport so lossless + better dac can be used. Said person throws down a few hundred for the iPod another for the iTransport and we haven't even addressed the issue of a DAC yet. Presumably the person has an amp but maybe not? Already we are looking at $600 or more just to get 140 gigs of files from an iPod (which means no FLAC, no OGG etc). 

 Then the recommendations come in for a decent dac come into play, so at minimum another $500 and then the amp, likely another $500 or more. This is the typical suggestion made to folks that are not familiar with Head-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Right there one is spending $1600 or so more than likely and one is limited to 140 gigs of music (not that that is small but it does mean limitations).

 Now, if that person does not require a portable system and is lucky enough to discover something like the Benchmark Dac 1, they get to realize that hey...they don't need to spend $600 or so on the iPod/iTransport, instead they can save that cash and buy a Dac 1 for about $1300 and hook that up directly to the computer. 

 So far a savings of $300 AND one is not limited to file formats or 140 gigs of usable space. Still, if they are even luckier, they might find out about Head-fi and begin reading about all the other desktop solutions that exist. All of a sudden, $1300 sounds like a lot when there are other options for as little as $258 with folks stating the sound is excellent and with quite a bit of flexibility in tailoring the sound. One drops from an initial output of $1600 to about $300 for the Compass. 

 Is the Compass on par with a Benchmark? I'm not sure, I've never heard one but I will say the Compass' amp is as good as the Gilmore Light and from my recollection might well be as good as the Gilmore GS-1. All of them are discreet. It certainly sounds better than any opamp-based amp I've heard except for the old Headroom Max. At least for me, the fact that this amp alone is in a league with amps costing $800 or so, means that it is one heck of a deal already and we haven;t even touched the dac! The DAC is better than the DAC in any iPod I own and those are said to compete with $1000 CD players. So this little unit at $258 competes with $1000 CD players. Maybe it gets surpassed by some, maybe it surpasses others, but ultimately if it is better than the iPods (at least I think so) and iPods are on par with CD players in that price category, then the Dac is worth about $1000 in CD sound. It competes with $800 solid state amps and $1000 CD players. $1800 worth of sound for $258 bucks. WOW!

 Is the Benchmark better? It might be, the dac might be better, the amp might be better but it is also $1000 more. Now we get to play the diminishing returns game. For me, at work, at this point in my life, I don't want to have $1300 worth of kit here for what amounts to background listening. I've also read that the Benchmark can sound thin and etched. Something the Compass never sounds with the configuration I use. For me then, if I were that audiophile I hypothesized above, I wouldn't be happy with a $1300 Benchmark but I probably would be happy with a stack of products that amount to the same cost or a few hundred more. Yet, I can have all that I want in a $258 package with excellent build quality. It's not like one is sacrificing much by getting a Compass over a Dac 1 feature-wise. 

 I think something like the above is why this not-so-little unit (though small in price) is getting so much attention. A ton of folks are interested in a desktop solution with good sound, no... great sound! They also don't want to have to spend $1300 on a Dac 1 for instance if they don't have to. Now, if one is interested in the absolute best from their computer, is the Compass going to match the best? No. But it will do well enough against them and for the untrained listener, will likely sound nearly the same. However, if one wants to go all out, then something like the Reference 1 (at least in level of complication) and a more robust amp comes into play. One could get into EMM Labs dacs, dCS etc., and then hook up to some awesome tube amp for instance. Big bucks, but, non-stop audio bliss! Yet that costs and for most, it would be for critical listening, not something used at work or while gaming or casual listening. The point, no, the Compass isn't the best thing in the world, but it is certainly one of the biggest giant killers I've ever been exposed to. It means a student can honestly get one and feel that they don't need to keep eyeing megabuck items to get this mysterious goodness we audiophiles talk about all the time. They get it with the Compass, they just might not get the last 10-15% but they are up there and as they grab hold of the last bunch of percents they also lose hold of quite a bit more money.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Funny, first it was the Dussun T2i, now all of a sudden he's been converted to tubes._

 

I always mistake the Dussun for a space heater...

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I always mistake the Dussun for a space heater...

 ._

 

LMAO, with that transformer inside, it just might work too. We finally found a use for the Dussun!


----------



## mbd2884

I agree with Drosera. You cannot hear the full potential of the Compass until you have heard it with true ASIO drivers either with USB or through true ASIO drivers for a soundcard via optical or coaxial. 

 DirectSound is meh, ASIO4All is better, true ASIO drivers makes a lot of difference if you are using PC. You won't be dissapointed, I'm sure of it. Drop the ASIO4All and look for a way to really get the full benefit of your Compass DAC!

 Sidenote, after a weekend of listening to Dvorak's, Mahler's, Rachmaninoff's Symphonies, Chopin's piano concertos, and some other random classical... my favorite is still Beethoven, his symphonies and piano concertos. Seems like the typical answer, but darn it, Beethoven just sounds better to me, I love his stuff. And to imagine he started to compose Symphony No. 9 seven years after his last public performace as his hearing deteriorated too much. Completed in 1824, well after when his hearing began to deterioate in late 1780s, yeah, simply astounding.

 Was never a fan of Opera, so don't listen to that. Nor am I a fan of quartets or chamber music. Waltzes, organ or church music is included among my don't care list, so that throws out Bach and Mozart mostly. 

 Listening to some Tchaikovsky though, like his stuff bit more, but still not as enjoyable as Beethoven. Still a nub when it comes to Classical, my only previous perspective was just from Classical piano playing mostly sonatas. 

 Anyways, maybe Drosera can reply to his first experience of Classical? How are you liking the Classicals with the Compass still?

 So far on the Compass my favorite is Karajan 1963 cycles of his Symphonies and the Fleisher/Szell for piano concertos. Just wish the Fleisher/Szell recording was better.


----------



## squall343

i am browsing through their chinese audio gd forum

 and i found this

 from what i can read (balanced dac? TDA1541AS2?)






 look like a new development


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am browsing through their chinese audio gd forum

 and i found this

 from what i can read (balanced dac? TDA1541AS2?)






 look like a new development_

 

I can't find the link there for the Phoenix thread. I've looked and looked, do you know where it is. My lack of knowledge of the English language seems to be slowing me down!

 .


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't find the link there for the Phoenix thread. I've looked and looked, do you know where it is. My lack of knowledge of the English language seems to be slowing me down!

 ._

 

check this link

09ÄêDAC·âµ¶Ö®×÷-------Æ½ºâ²î¶¯Ê½TDA1541AS2(118Â¥ÏßÂ·°åÕÕÆ¬)[î£Ö¾ÒôÏì¼¼ÊõÂÛÌ³]


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far on the Compass my favorite is Karajan 1963 cycles of his Symphonies and the Fleisher/Szell for piano concertos. Just wish the Fleisher/Szell recording was better._

 

Good choices there!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyways, maybe Drosera can reply to his first experience of Classical? How are you liking the Classicals with the Compass still?_

 

Well, to be honest, I don't really listen to that much classical music with the Compass. Partly because the Compass is in my home office, so it usually plays "music while you work", which often isn't classical. Partly also because, good as the Compass is, it can't remotely be compared to the Corda Opera/Reference One combo in the living room. And since, to my ears at least, classical music has the most to gain from better equipment, most of the classical music listening happens with that system.

 That said, I think the Compass works really well with classical music. Even with 'phones like the Beyer DT-48, where quality of dac and amp are really critical. For me it works best with small scale music: chamber ensembles, smaller choral works. Organ works too. (So, basically, all the music you're not listening too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) However, classical music is the determining factor in my choice of opamp. It's Earth all the way.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_check this link

09ÄêDAC·âµ¶Ö®×÷-------Æ½ºâ²î¶¯Ê½TDA1541AS2(118Â¥ÏßÂ·°åÕÕÆ¬)[î£Ö¾ÒôÏì¼¼ÊõÂÛÌ³]_

 

Hey,
 That's the thread you were mentioning, I was looking for the Phoenix thread. The one that shows the black cases in it. Heh, those black cases looked like I painted them with a broom!

 .


----------



## Carlsan

double post, sorry - got to excited after receiving the Compass!


----------



## Carlsan

Just got my Compass yesterday, so far sounds fantastic! 
 It's at home burning in as I type this. 
 Thanks to this discussion for helping me make the decision.


----------



## DefectiveAudioComponent

This might be a good place for a slightly odd question.
 The compass has a pre-amp as well as an headphone amp,
 Is it possible to driver headphones from the pre-amp out as well (if one makes suitable cable)? And is it a good idea?


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far on the Compass my favorite is Karajan 1963 cycles of his Symphonies and the Fleisher/Szell for piano concertos. Just wish the Fleisher/Szell recording was better._

 

I agree with Drosera that those are pretty solid choices as far as cycles go. For Beethoven though, every major work has been recorded so many times that I think it's just better to get individual recordings. Any time Beethoven's symphonies pop up, I have to give my obligatory recommendation of Furtwangler's Ninth(any of them will do, but I prefer the 1951 recording the most), Kleiber's Fifth, and Klemperer's Third. Those are personally my favorite Beethoven symphony recordings.

 It's a shame you don't really like chamber music, but it's generally less accessible than large scale symphonic works so I'm not that surprised. I do hope you give them another chances sometimes though, but perhaps the generally more intimate character of chamber works doesn't suit your tastes.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

That might be the upcoming Stat amp....Of course I could be wrong....

 Zanth you nailed it the hype centers around the value and the outstanding bang for buck option the Compass was deliberately designed for. It started out as a Zero replacement (thanks Curra) and snowballed from there with input from the Gang of 5 I like to call it right from the start 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a valid question,I think anyway and not directed to or at anyone in particular, ...when does hype cease to be hype if the product delivers the goods out of all proportion to price in all categories important to customers (which includes customer service support) ?

 Hot Pixel I can see your point and it is also valid so please bear with me while I lay out an option for you to help nail down the big difference in SQ from where you were to where you are now (and feeling underwhelmed by it).

 You did not answer my question about hours on your Compass, I suspect your still under 200, if so the unit is ordinary sounding during this time period and shifts all over the place well into 500 hours. That being said the subtractive method may be your ticket to a better understanding of what the Compass brings to the table. In 2 months time once you have a fully burned in Compass on your hands take it out of the loop and go back to what you were using beforehand...I guarantee you you will notice a big possibly huge difference between the 2. 

 Give it some time better SQ is assured once burn in is complete. The biggest changes occur at the 350 and 550 hour marks after that it's further refinements to the established improvemnts (the most notable ones).

 Another thing to keep in mind is each time you swap in a fresh HDAM you have to give it 350 hours...I know that's a big PITA but that is just the way it is with these modules. Lots of people reject that theory out of hand like they do burn in in general so as always YMMV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All of the above advice is straight from long study and evaluation over the last year with many modules and pieces of Audio-gd kit (including lots of DIY parts in various projects of mine) the process is repeatable and even predictable so in my mind it's real and tangible. Other have conformed this, many others but like I said earlier YMMV, and that's perfectly OK with me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Going down in SQ is always MUCH more noticeable than going up. When you go down, you usually say, "What just happened, i had no idea". Going up can sometimes be a, "is there a difference" kinda moment.

 Listen to the Compass for a while, then listen to a Sound Card, any sound card.

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DefectiveAudioComponent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This might be a good place for a slightly odd question.
 The compass has a pre-amp as well as an headphone amp,
 Is it possible to driver headphones from the pre-amp out as well (if one makes suitable cable)? And is it a good idea?_

 

Yes it's a double duty device. It's definitely not a good idea to to try and drive your headphones from the pre outs unless you attach another amp onto the end of that (one without a preamp section like the Jaycar kit amp).

 The pre out function is to feed a traditional amp be it a separate device or ones built into active speakers (that accept SE RCA inputs).

 Peete.


----------



## driftingbunnies

Did you ever figure out how to take away the beep from the USB ASIO or did we all agree that it was useless.


----------



## Catcher

Just a quick question. I'm right in thinking I could connect the squeezebox to this and tape out of my integrated amp so that I can listen to different sources on the headphone amp and that the Compass could be connected to the integrated so that I can listen to the Squeezebox through speakers. The Audio Gd could do all this without me having to change wires around or anything.


----------



## Aleatoris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Catcher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a quick question. I'm right in thinking I could connect the squeezebox to this and tape out of my integrated amp so that I can listen to different sources on the headphone amp and that the Compass could be connected to the integrated so that I can listen to the Squeezebox through speakers. The Audio Gd could do all this without me having to change wires around or anything._

 

Yes, if you connect the squeeze box to the compass via optical/coax.


----------



## Catcher

Excellent. I'll sell my Shanling, this means I won't have to buy a Dacmagic.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you ever figure out how to take away the beep from the USB ASIO or did we all agree that it was useless._

 

Paying for it removes the beep.


----------



## driftingbunnies

lol...is it really worth 44 euros? seems like a scam to me. might as well buy something that already comes with a real ASIO driver.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you ever figure out how to take away the beep from the USB ASIO or did we all agree that it was useless._

 

either pay for it or use some other methods to remove it


----------



## Zanth

Is this driver worth it for a Mac? Particularly if I eventually try the optical? Once I dump the USB...I'm wondering which ought to sound better?


----------



## edselfordfong

Did anyone get the driver to work on vista? There were early reports that it wasn't working with Vista, iirc. Did anyone compare it with WASAPI?

 I tried to install it, but then I realized that the device must be present, and mine isn't, thanks to DHL.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am browsing through their chinese audio gd forum

 and i found this

 from what i can read (balanced dac? TDA1541AS2?)

 look like a new development_

 

NO, its not a product which will be for sale, its just one of the projects he is doing for himself (hobby - fun whatever you call..). And in any case the TDA1541AS2 seems to be very difficult to procure and quite costly too (USD150 each!).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this driver worth it for a Mac? Particularly if I eventually try the optical? Once I dump the USB...I'm wondering which ought to sound better?_

 

I cant say about MAC, but on my Windows XP, I found the SQ take a big leap from the ASIO4ALL which I was using earlier, although I must add a lot of other things got disabled, I mean earlier I could watch movies on my PC, but now I cant because it has no sound, I think ( as I was informed) this is because, while the ASIO4ALL driver just emulates ASIO and works with the normal Windows USB sound driver. But with USB-Audio the Windows USB sound driver is actually replaced with one that's compatible with ASIO. In other words, it's true ASIO, in contrast to the ASIO4all emulation. Also I have some problems on say opening a Word file, I have to switch off the Foobar first.. whatever, even with these problems I have decided to keep it only because of the improvement in SQ.


----------



## Zanth

I don't have any of those problems with the Mac, and although I test it, with the beep I wasn't able to do any real criticial listening. I'll forgo the expense, the drive is quite a bit of money and I can't move it to all my Macs, I have to buy multiple copies. Not cool


----------



## sandchak

Yes, I think I am having these problems because its an unsigned driver/software by Windows, and in this situation there is always one or the other problem cropping up, I think soon in the future I'll go for MAC myself - I have heard its more music friendly !


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this driver worth it for a Mac? Particularly if I eventually try the optical? Once I dump the USB...I'm wondering which ought to sound better?_

 

Not sure if it is worth it for the Mac, but you can try the free demo and A/B it against the Mac optical for yourself, prior to purchasing.

 Let us know how the comparison turns out, I'm sure others besides myself would be interested in your conclusions. 

 I was considering a Mac but decided instead to refurbish an old Dell laptop that we had lying around, it was so old it didn't even have a USB 2.0 port, I had to install a USB card. This has worked out well as a dedicated music server, I just can't ask it do anything else while I listen to music.

 Mark


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also I have some problems on say opening a Word file, I have to switch off the Foobar first.._

 

That's a weird problem! That must be annoying, might be enough for me to switch back to the custom Windows USB sound driver.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a weird problem! That must be annoying, might be enough for me to switch back to the custom Windows USB sound driver._

 

Yes Dro, it is weird and annoying too, but I am not going to point my fingers at the ASIO drivers, I think its the Foobar that is creating this problem, I'll install the media monkey and see if the problem still persists..


----------



## squall343

yup..i do have the problem with foobar and loading words file

 they simply refused to load until i stop the foobar music

 but not a hassle to me


----------



## sandchak

Well, so it means I am not the only one to have this problem.. so if either of us find a solution, we share ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Btw, this problem does not occur with Media Monkey, but I would still prefer the Foobar as I find for someone like me (naive when it comes to Computers) more user friendly.


----------



## Currawong

Zanth: I didn't notice any difference on my Mac with that driver. I didn't listen extensively though. Also, it wouldn't allow greater than 48k output, whereas by default Macs can do 24/96 over USB.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Zanth: I didn't notice any difference on my Mac with that driver. I didn't listen extensively though. Also, it wouldn't allow greater than 48k output, whereas by default Macs can do 24/96 over USB._

 

i guess mac already is a pretty good medium for music playing

 compared to windows especially xp which have the kmixer


----------



## Hot Pixel

Hey guys it's me again.
 Thanks for all the responses, it's nice to have an adult conversation once in a while (as a programmer, I don't socialise as much as I used to). Really good responses as well. Aaaanyway: it seems like I'm not making myself clear enough. I understand (and feel) that (and how) the compass is an incredible value. I really like it. 

 But mine was not a comment to start a discussion about value. It was more a comment on the perception of music. You guys have a totally different way of listening to music, and use that way to describe the qualities of the compass. Because you can, and it is always an excellent read.
 However; reading these comments someone like me can think he can hear something like 'the shuffling of feet on the stage' with the compass just as well and easily as you guys. See, while reading, it's all to easy to forget I can't even tell the difference between 192kbs vbr and FLAC/CD for cryin' out loud. Keep in mind that the compass price is low enough for first-time buyers not much unlike me.

 Do I notice the improvement in sound? Definitely, incredibly so, even. But does it change the way I experience my music? Errr.... not as much actually. 
 It doesn't matter what my source or equipment is: I get riled up when listening to War of Ages, still get emotional when I'm listening to Dante's Prayer by Loreena McKennit, grow quiet when I listen to Mozart's Requiem etc.
 Sure, somewhat more so when I listen to it on my compass but it's not like I'm hearing it for the first time. It's more like I'm getting to know the music better.

 The point is this: The compass did change the way music reaches my ears (significantly), but it didn't do equally as much for my interpretation of said music. 
 Probably because the way I listen to music doesn't rely so much on the quality as it does on the music itself ("there's no boring headphone, only boring music" I've read somewhere in somebodies signature, and I concur). 

 But perhaps this is a discussion perhaps better suited for a thread that isn't dedicated to the compass.
 Also: Pie


----------



## Catcher

Can anyone tell me how the sound of the Compass would compare with a Shanling PH100? I think I might sell my Shanling to buy this as I need a DAC.


----------



## moonboy403

Another member commented on the Compass in another thread: 

 "I thought the Compass was quite bright and harsh on the high end with a pair of HD580s, but I didn't test it extensively....heard the Compass with my 580's and another head-fi'ers newer pair of 580's, on his macbook with ALAC files. My main listening setup is currently what is in my sig, which I highly prefer, especially in the upper frequencies. I'd have to audition the Compass more to give a proper comparison, since I only gave it about 20 minutes, max."

 Anybody wanna comment on it?


----------



## moonboy403

Double posted.


----------



## op2003

@Hot Pixel:

 I couldn't agree more with you! I made a similar experience with the Zero DAC. Sure, it sounds better than my integrated NAD amp, but it's not like worlds. It's very subtile.

 I think the same applies to the Compass: It's an exceptional value if you're are able to appreciate it. So at last i think it's all about choosing the right words (e.g. describing something as "incredible" could somehow lead to a hype, especially spoken by a respected person).

 Btw: I ordered a Compass last week


----------



## Hot Pixel

@op2003: Congrats! Man, that makes how many compass owners now?

 @moonboy: What equipment does he use currently, and what kind of opAmp+setting did he use?
 I find it a bit harsh when I'm using sun+bright as well. But that only makes sense I would think.


----------



## moonboy403

I believe he uses the Essence STX.


----------



## oldschool

Just got a call from DHL. My Compass will arrive on Monday and they want me to either go to the customs and arrange the release myself or allow them with a letter to do it. They said I won't be paying any import taxes


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the same applies to the Compass: It's an exceptional value if you're are able to appreciate it. So at last i think it's all about choosing the right words (e.g. describing something as "incredible" could somehow lead to a hype, especially spoken by a respected person).

 Btw: I ordered a Compass last week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

To me words are only the expression of what a person feels, I presume we are all adults out here so we need to rationalize it our own way. I do not know the respectable person you are referring to, but if that person can be called respectable then maybe he has had the experience of listening many gears to make that expression. One thing for sure, Compass is a scalable gear, it is a quite a true sounding gear, if you feed it with rubbish, what you get is rubbish, feed it with quality and appropriate stuff and you will get quality sound, call it nice, good, exceptional or incredible depends on various factors which differ from people to people. Trust me Compass isn't one of those plug and play device attached to the computer. It takes a lot of hard work and patience to get reach the stage when you feel you really have taken out the best of Compass, for that matter any good audio gear. IMHO.


----------



## op2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To me words are only the expression of what a person feels, I presume we are all adults out here so we need to rationalize it our own way. I do not know the respectable person you are referring to, but if that person can be called respectable then maybe he has had the experience of listening many gears to make that expression._

 

That is exactly my and probably also Hot Pixels point: If you're very experienced in listening to audio gear and music, then "incredible" means to you, what only a very subtle change means to an untrained listener.
 I wasn't speaking about a person in particular, but you can notice by reading some posts in this forum, that some members tend to using very expressive wording, while others use more "neutral" descriptions.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ One thing for sure, Compass is a scalable gear, it is a quite a true sounding gear, if you feed it with rubbish, what you get is rubbish, feed it with quality and appropriate stuff and you will get quality sound, call it nice, good, exceptional or incredible depends on various factors which differ from people to people. Trust me Compass isn't one of those plug and play device attached to the computer. It takes a lot of hard work and patience to get reach the stage when you feel you really have taken out the best of Compass, for that matter any good audio gear. IMHO._

 

IMO the perfect amp would amplify the input signal without distortion. Of course that means rubbish in -> rubbish out. 
 In your last sentence you basically say what i was saying before: You have to get to the point, where you are able to appreciate that quality and you can only get there by a lot of listening (or hard work, as you call it).

 What i was trying to say is, that people have subjective impressions and therefore different personal standards.

 Anyway i'm really looking forward to the Compass


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is exactly my and probably also Hot Pixels point: If you're very experienced in listening to audio gear and music, then "incredible" means to you, what only a very subtle change means to an untrained listener.
 I wasn't speaking about a person in particular, but you can notice by reading some posts in this forum, that some members tend to using very expressive wording, while others use more "neutral" descriptions._

 

No, actually when I compare using my PC and using my Marantz CD17 coax out, I don't hear subtle difference, I hear big difference.

 And that is why you get some use more neutral terms and some use more expressive terms, neither of them are wrong.

 And of course when I am writing I am not aiming at any particular audience, but just expressing what I personally feel and hear.

 That is what I am trying to say. Yes you can turn around and say what I am hearing or saying is wrong, but then we are into a different discussion.

 Anyway, I hope you get your Compass soon and Enjoy ! ..


----------



## op2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, actually when I compare using my PC and using my Marantz CD17 coax out, I don't hear subtle difference, I hear big difference.

 And that is why you get some use more neutral terms and some use more expressive terms, neither of them are wrong.

 And of course when I am writing I am not aiming at any particular audience, but just expressing what I personally feel and hear.

 That is what I am trying to say. Yes you can turn around and say what I am hearing or saying is wrong, but then we are into a different discussion.

 Anyway, I hope you get your Compass soon and Enjoy ! ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I never said you express something wrong. I just meant, that it's a good idea for a newbie to read different opionions regarding a new gadget und build your own opinion. Especially while dealing with things like FOTM.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I never said you express something wrong. I just meant, that it's a good idea for a newbie to read different opionions regarding a new gadget und build your own opinion. Especially while dealing with things like FOTM._

 

I agree with you, and I think they are listening to different opinions, like you say some are using more neutral terms and some expressive terms.. you yourself have said Compass is exceptional value if you are able to appreciate it and I agree with it absolutely, even though some people may take that also as a hype.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I never said you express something wrong. I just meant, that it's a good idea for a newbie to read different opionions regarding a new gadget und build your own opinion. Especially while dealing with things like FOTM._

 

The problem is, I think, that it is hard to temper expressions of your enthousiasm when you don't feel 'tempered' about them. But of course, there's a different side to it as well.

 People will vary in how much they are able to appreciate good sound. Partly this is due to the way you personally relate to music, partly it also reflects whether you have learned to listen critically at some point in the past. People who are less 'sensitive' to sound quality, however, will be hesitant to express their opinions, because they might feel that it's their inadequacy that makes that they are not hearing the same things that the others seem to be hearing. This in turn, is a self-reinforcing process. People are hesitant to post opinions, that they don't see expressed by any other persons. And so the general tone of a thread such as this, is one of hype. That hype may be justified, as I think it very much is in this case, but will inevitably leave some people disappointed, underwhelmed, or simply wondering what all the hype was about.
 But, as I said, I think this is inevitable. It's very hard to judge for yourself beforehand, how sensitive you will be to improvements in sound quality that a certain piece of equipment might bring. I think the only way is to discover this for yourself.


----------



## ScottieB

@hot pixel and op2003:

 I hear what you are saying, but I think all you need is some more experience. Like someone else recommended, the best way to have this revelation for the first time is to "get used to" hearing your music thru the compass (or whatever your hi-er end device is) and then go back to the sound card or ipod or whatever. The difference will seem much bigger and you'll see what you are missing. It works the same way for visuals, too - like DVD to Bllu-Ray or even generation of video games... I rmember as a teenager when the Super Nintendo came out I first though 'that's not even that much better...' but then I played it for a while and went back to the NES and... OHHH!!! 

 Besides that, it kinda does require you to listen on another level - which is to say, concentrate on listening, not just listen as background. For instance, if I'm commuting to work, I have my iPod with mp3s on it and crappy earphones. But I'm not really concentrating, the music is there as background - and I'm perfectly happy. But if I want to sit down and really experience the music, I'm now spoiled - and I MUCH prefer a decent rig with lossless files.

 One more point - the type of music and the quality of the recording are also part of it. You won't notice anythin major with a lot of recordings - particularly modern stuff that is subject to the "loudness wars" like rock and pop... it is still there, but not as immediately evident. The first time for me was when I heard a SACD (24/96) of Dave Brubeck's Time Out. This is a recording I'm quite familiar with, and it was made in 1959! But hearing it on SACD over a really nice system (at my buddy's house) it was a new experience. I COULD hear feet shuffling, keys being pressed etc - stuff I never noticed before - but of course it was in the recording. If it ain't there, no system is going to let you hear it.

 And the last point - not everyone is tuned to get into this stuff... that's why there's a term for "us" that has some negative connotations outside of sites like this - audiophiles... the vast majority of people are perfectly content with iPods and 192kbps aac/mp3. And that's fine.

 Bottom line - I'd say you just need some more experience - the more different things you hear, and the more you get the chance to compare, the more things will become clear... or not - maybe your ears/brain just don't care. Certainly nothing wrong with that. It's a hobby - some people have other things they obsess over.


----------



## squall343

Just got my C2C

 not in a bag but in a box


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@hot pixel and op2003:
 Besides that, it kinda does require you to listen on another level - which is to say, concentrate on listening, not just listen as background. For instance, if I'm commuting to work, I have my iPod with mp3s on it and crappy earphones. But I'm not really concentrating, the music is there as background - and I'm perfectly happy._

 

I couldn't agree more. There 2 ways of listening to music.


----------



## punk_guy182

I ordered and paid my Compass on the 19th. Dos anyone know if it got shipped?
 Aren,t they shipping every Thursdays? that would be the 23rd of April but I don't see any shipments being made on that day. ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## punk_guy182

*repetition*


----------



## op2003

Did you see the following sentence on their site: 
 "The current lead time for orders is 2 weeks ,
 because we need enough time to burn in and test."?


----------



## driftingbunnies

Why are you asking when some of the baggers have paid since 3/15 and still haven't gotten theirs? Just be patient please


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered and paid my Compass on the 19th. Dos anyone know if it got shipped?
 Aren,t they shipping every Thursdays? that would be the 23rd of April but I don't see any shipments being made on that day. ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1_

 

not that fast..

 they will send u an email after they ship


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why are you asking when some of the baggers have paid since 3/15 and still haven't gotten theirs? Just be patient please_

 

Yeah...what he said.


----------



## Canuck57

I feel sorry for the "baggers," I know how I wait waiting!

 I ordered mine on April 16th...


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But say I were to get a Zana Deux from Eddie Current? Cause when I reach that money point, I agree with those who distrust some Chinese company called Woo Audio, so Eddie Current it is!_

 

What an odd statement. Firstly Woo Audio is based in Elmhurst, NY, USA and secondly they make great amps and have become highly regarded. I believe that there is a review somewhere wherein it stated that the differences between the WA6 SE and ZD were hard to hear.

 Personally I have the WA6 SE, I have dealt with Jack Wu and I have found the company to be trustworthy, stand by their products, responsive to emails and calls and to build high quality amps. I cannot see any reason for distrust.

 Simon


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What an odd statement. Firstly Woo Audio is based in Elmhurst, NY, USA and secondly they make great amps and have become highly regarded. I believe that there is a review somewhere wherein it stated that the differences between the WA6 SE and ZD were hard to hear.

 Personally I have the WA6 SE, I have dealt with Jack Wu and I have found the company to be trustworthy, stand by their products, responsive to emails and calls and to build high quality amps. I cannot see any reason for distrust.

 Simon_

 

Is the light bulb coming on in your head yet? 

 As my friend Glen Campbell says, "You have accomplished nothing when you’ve bested a fool.”

 We'll just put one more Tick mark in the BS Column though, thanx for that!

 .


----------



## sclamb

Ah, did I just fall into a troll trap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Simon


----------



## sclamb

Ignore - duplicate post!


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Guys, am I right in saying that when using the Compass as a pre amp that the volume knob will control the output volume unlike on the Zero correct?

 Anyone know why the volume knob on the Zero doesn't adjust the volume when using it as a pre amp? Seems a bit daft to me! Just almost made my ears bleed when connecting it to my NAD integrated (which I am using as the power amp for speakers).


----------



## darkkai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys, am I right in saying that when using the Compass as a pre amp that the volume knob will control the output volume unlike on the Zero correct?

 Anyone know why the volume knob on the Zero doesn't adjust the volume when using it as a pre amp? Seems a bit daft to me! Just almost made my ears bleed when connecting it to my NAD integrated (which I am using as the power amp for speakers)._

 

Hmm...my Zero does function as a premp - you need to disconnect the phones and select the "Phone" button and it acts as a preamp instead of a line level out. If you have phones plugged in, it will output to the phones if you've got the button pressed.

 The compass does serve as a pre-amp and has a line level output as well. A switch in the back chooses the output of the signal (premp or headphone) as well, but unlike the Zero, you do not need to disconnect the phones. The line-level output is used in conjunction with the "Super" button in front.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkkai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm...my Zero does function as a premp - you need to disconnect the phones and select the "Phone" button and it acts as a preamp instead of a line level out. If you have phones plugged in, it will output to the phones if you've got the button pressed.

 The compass does serve as a pre-amp and has a line level output as well. A switch in the back chooses the output of the signal (premp or headphone) as well, but unlike the Zero, you do not need to disconnect the phones. The line-level output is used in conjunction with the "Super" button in front._

 

Ah lovely thanks! I honestly thought I'd tried that (pressing the phones button) but I must have still had them plugged in when I did or something. Who knows. But the volume is working now as you said - TYVM. 

 Now I just have to wait until my new speakers turn up


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Hmm... thats weird. Thought I'd try the HP out from my NAD, again using the Zero as DAC. Well, if I have the "phone" button selected I hear a lot of buzzing through the headphones, and quality is terrible! However, when I dont select the phone button the buzzing goes away and the quality is comparable to the HP out on the Zero if not a little better. 

 The buzzing sounds like the same buzzing that comes from the Zero anyway (which I've always assumed was from the transformer) but now coming through the phones too. 

 Guess it could be the super cheap IC I'm using right now (have ordered a decent one for when my speakers and Compass get here)?

 What do you guys think?


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you see the following sentence on their site: 
 "The current lead time for orders is 2 weeks ,
 because we need enough time to burn in and test."?_

 

Sorrrrrry! I just did now.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, did I just fall into a troll trap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Simon_

 

Hey Simon,
 Pretty much. Let's just say when he posts---

*[size=small]The Circus is Back in Town!![/size]*

 .


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm... thats weird. Thought I'd try the HP out from my NAD, again using the Zero as DAC. Well, if I have the "phone" button selected I hear a lot of buzzing through the headphones, and quality is terrible! However, when I dont select the phone button the buzzing goes away and the quality is comparable to the HP out on the Zero if not a little better. 

 The buzzing sounds like the same buzzing that comes from the Zero anyway (which I've always assumed was from the transformer) but now coming through the phones too. 

 Guess it could be the super cheap IC I'm using right now (have ordered a decent one for when my speakers and Compass get here)?

 What do you guys think?_

 

Tranny buzzing is normally a physical buzzing sound from the unit, rather than transferred through the headphones. I don't get buzzing, whether it be with dirt-cheap throwaway ICs or my better stuff...

 Try using the normal RCA out to an input on your amplifier. If the buzzing is still there, disconnect the DAC from your PC or other source, see if it remains...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered and paid my Compass on the 19th. Dos anyone know if it got shipped?
 Aren,t they shipping every Thursdays? that would be the 23rd of April but I don't see any shipments being made on that day. ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1_

 

I admit I have trouble understanding why you'd ask this in here, when posting the question in an email to Audio-gd would give you an actual answer.


----------



## AudioPhewl

A car forum I'm on, people come on from time to time asking questions about error messages in Windows. Googling their post details always brings up the results... We're all guilty of these things from time to time, I guess. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## WC Annihilus

If I were to go with this, would it be worth it to get a card for SPDIF such as the Prelude? I've done a reasonable amount of searching and thoughts seem to be quite mixed on this subject. Mobo is a 790i Ultra that (I think) uses the Realtek ALC888 codec


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WC Annihilus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I were to go with this, would it be worth it to get a card for SPDIF such as the Prelude? I've done a reasonable amount of searching and thoughts seem to be quite mixed on this subject. Mobo is a 790i Ultra that uses the Realtek ALC888 codec_

 

Why don't you want to start with the USB first? although even I would like to know if something through Prelude SPDIF out would be better than USB..


----------



## WC Annihilus

Well, I've found a Prelude I could get reasonably cheap so am debating whether to go ahead and grab it


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WC Annihilus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I were to go with this, would it be worth it to get a card for SPDIF such as the Prelude? I've done a reasonable amount of searching and thoughts seem to be quite mixed on this subject. Mobo is a 790i Ultra that (I think) uses the Realtek ALC888 codec_

 

I'm assuming your Realtek has a SPDIF out of its own? Have you tried it? There are 2 main reasons people want a dedicated sound card instead of onboard sound - often onboard has interference in the form of static, clicks and/or pops; and for gaming features. But there's a good chance your onboard SDIF out will sound just fine. Best thing is to try it out first, and if you aren't satisfied THEN grab the sound card. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.


----------



## WC Annihilus

I'm also somewhat interested in the gaming features. Though I've yet to use anything that have them (onboard, Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, my current Pioneer receiver) and have gotten on pretty well


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are 2 main reasons people want a dedicated sound card instead of onboard sound - often onboard has interference in the form of static, clicks and/or pops; and for gaming features. But there's a good chance your onboard SDIF out will sound just fine. Best thing is to try it out first, and if you aren't satisfied THEN grab the sound card. But that's just, like, my opinion, man. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Soundcard most of the time carries the same interference as does the motherboard. The internals and the outside of the computer case is all about electrical interference. I had the Auzentech X_Fi Prelude and it didn't solve the proble. The best way is to go with optical because it deosn't deal with electricity but light. My motherboard audio codec outputs a bit-perfect signal so this is what I use. I have no longer any more crackling/buzzing sounds or a low hum.


----------



## drummer1985

hi all,i got the compass. how does the hd650 sound with this? thank you.


----------



## Nidhogg22

This might be a silly question but do I have to have headphones plugged in to burn in the Compass or can I just leave it on with music playing and my headphones disconnected?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Headphones in. AFAIK, the circuit will need an output to drive, else the signal won't be going anywhere. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Could select the preamp out, into another amplifier which is powered off or turned down...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Nidhogg22

Cheers. Also does it matter how high/low the volume is?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Shouldn't much, but - IMO - the louder, the better. If it's feeding an external amplifier, then crank it up. If you're doing it through headphones, stick them in the sock drawer... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drummer1985* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi all,i got the compass. how does the hd650 sound with this? thank you._

 

It's good with HD-600s so HD-650s will be fine.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nidhogg22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cheers. Also does it matter how high/low the volume is?_

 

I don't think it greatly matters, just don't blow up your headphones whatever you do.


----------



## Nidhogg22

For those of you with HD650s, what gain/jumper settings/HDAMs do you like best?


----------



## ecclesand

Well...by this time last weekend (4/18), folks were already getting emails about new shipments of Compasses. I guess us baggers' replacement Compasses won't be shipping this weekend as promised.


----------



## driftingbunnies

sigh...ridiculous...should've waited to buy it...


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sigh...ridiculous...should've waited to buy it..._

 

I just sent an email to them asking when our replacements will ship.

 EDIT: Per Kingwa, they will be shipped this afternoon (China time). Good News!


----------



## driftingbunnies

That still makes our effective lead time like 1 1/2 month while others who order two weeks ago already have it in their homes.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That still makes our effective lead time like 1 1/2 month while others who order two weeks ago already have it in their homes._

 

I know. I try not to think of it that way because if I do, I get really ticked.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nidhogg22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cheers. Also does it matter how high/low the volume is?_

 

I recollect asking Kingwa this question when I received my Compass, he said volume set around 9 o' clock would be fine..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just sent an email to them asking when our replacements will ship.

 EDIT: Per Kingwa, they will be shipped this afternoon (China time). Good News!_

 

That is a good news, and I hope you guys get the Compass boxed and in perfect condition..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In my experience its always better to ask Kingwa directly if there is any doubts about anything especially shipping and stuffs like that, usually he answers in a flash even during weekends !..

 EDIT - I understand baggers have the right to complain because they received the Compass damaged with no fault of theirs, at the same time I also personally feel that Audio GD has resolved the crisis in a very professional manner and even beyond some peoples expectations without asking baggers to ship back the damaged compass, and if I go by ecclesand's post, then They are shipping the Compass to baggers as promised. On the brighter side of things, baggers have the advantage of having another Compass which they can use as spares if needed.. All said and done, Yes, it must be frustrating for baggers and I really hope this time the Compass reaches in perfect working condition.


----------



## bjorn

I noticed this on Audio GDs Compass page;

*26th Apr. reduce the gain, Low gain has 6DB, High gain has 13DB.*

 A good idea I think. Not that the present setting is a problem, but this might allow future buyers to experience a volume setting above 9 o´clock


----------



## cyberidd

So I'm enjonying my Compass with my Beyerdynamic DT990 (250ohm 2005), and am testing it with all jumpers and HDAMs. I'll try to give an actual review in a few more days, but for now I'll say that these seen to work quite well together. So far I have tested the Earth and Sun HDAMs with all jumpers (haven't tried Moon yet), and so far I like the sound of soft1 jumper settings best as it tones down the sibilance of the 990 to the point where they don't seem sibilant at all. Hope others are enjoying theirs as well, and that more reviews with different equipment will pop up shortly!


----------



## ExtraNice

Got my compass. 

 I can already hear a difference with the compass using USB. This is without any burn in!


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I noticed this on Audio GDs Compass page;

*26th Apr. reduce the gain, Low gain has 6DB, High gain has 13DB.*

 A good idea I think. Not that the present setting is a problem, but this might allow future buyers to experience a volume setting above 9 o´clock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Good move to lower the gain. In most music, going over 8 o'clock was too loud for me. I asked Kingwa about this recently and found out that you can reduce the gain by simply switching two 3.5K resistors to 10K ones (so the gain drop from 9db to 6db). Here is Kingwa's pic:


----------



## Catcher

.


----------



## Zhirc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I noticed this on Audio GDs Compass page;

 "*26th Apr. reduce the gain, Low gain has 6DB, High gain has 13DB.*_

 

Damn. I would have liked to have that low gain, too.

 About my order... it _finally_ got out of the customs and was re-shipped during Friday - so it spent over a _week_ in the customs. Guess I'll get it into my hands before/on Wednesday, if things will go right way.

 Like I said earlier, I'll probably try to give some impressions with few electronic related genres ("idm", ambient, d'n'b, maybe some techno/house/trance) and what kind of impact it will give to the guy who has only listened music without external DAC/Amp and with low impedance and efficient cans. If anyone's interested, that is.


----------



## j2kei

wow that low gain of 6gb is awesome especially sicne i dont listen to music at such loud volume.


----------



## SoFGR

ever lower gain What ? is 13db going to be enough for the akgs601 and dt770/80 pro ? guess i have to find out myself when this thing arrives, btw why did they remove their combo offers ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ( 20$ opa 60$ power cable 14$ coax )


----------



## tommy_uk77

EARTH, SUN or MOON are the best matching with my hfi780,hd650 and denon d2000 ?


----------



## Stanley

Hi,

 Need advice, I use my Zero DAC/Amp (OPA Earth/LT1364) with Sennheiser HD600, and now I'm thinking about upgrade...

 I would like to stay with my Senns, so one way is to upgrade my DAC/Amp - sell Zero and buy Compass another idea is to buy dedicated amp (thinking about LD MK III or DV 336i)... What do you think would be better step up for me? Dedicated amp or Compass?  Thanks


----------



## Starguard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That still makes our effective lead time like 1 1/2 month while others who order two weeks ago already have it in their homes._

 

Hey man, I ordered the 13th and have yet to see a tracking number, so don't too upset. I think they are handling the situation the best they can... I suppose they lost quite a bit of money on this.


----------



## tommy_uk77

EARTH, SUN or MOON are the best matching with my hfi780,hd650 and denon d2000 ?


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ btw why did they remove their combo offers ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ( 20$ opa 60$ power cable 14$ coax )_

 

My guess is he has to recover the loss he has sustained due to the 'bagged compass' issue. Good thing is he is still keeping the promotional price of the compass, so you still have a great deal there.

 To my fellow baggers : The replacements has started shipping. My name is on the Apr. 26th list!!


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That still makes our effective lead time like 1 1/2 month while others who order two weeks ago already have it in their homes._

 

True...I decreased my frequency of visit to this thread during the last week. Its hard to see other's posting their impressions, when I am left staring at a damaged bagged one . Anyway, I think its getting over, it should be here later this week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## driftingbunnies

Yeah I know they tried to handle it as professionally as they can but I feel like we shouldn't have been placed at the back of the line for production since we definitely paid before anything came out. I would've been a lot happier if i had waited to pay. Also, my name isn't on the list since I was the guy who wanted all the outputs to output at the same time. Just a little frustrated since there were plenty of compasses shipping half a week after ours were shipped which means that there were plenty of slack to accommodate for the baggers. /rant


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tommy_uk77* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EARTH, SUN or MOON are the best matching with my hfi780,hd650 and denon d2000 ?_

 

I'm currently digging the Earth with my modded D2000. Moon is too bottom-heavy for the HD600 so take that for what you will for the HD650.


----------



## ecclesand

I would just like to add to those of you who think us baggers are getting a "great deal" because we have a defective Compass to use as spare parts. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have absolutely no soldering or electronic assembly skills. If I did, I would build my own DAC and Amp. So, for me, the defective Compass is not spare parts but is simply a 5 kg doorstop. So, where are we baggers coming out ahead in this deal?

 Don't get me wrong...I appreciate that Audio-gd is replacing our Compass. But again, we received defective Compasses thru no fault of our own but because of the shipping company hired by Audio-gd...be it DHL or DHL's agent. Sure, we didn't have to ship the defective Compasses back, but if it had meant that my replacement would have been treated as a first priority, I would have paid the $65 to ship this thing back.


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good move to lower the gain. In most music, going over 8 o'clock was too loud for me. I asked Kingwa about this recently and found out that you can reduce the gain by simply switching two 3.5K resistors to 10K ones (so the gain drop from 9db to 6db). Here is Kingwa's pic:



_

 

Is it possible to make a mini tutorial for replacing them ? Like ; which particular model, do high-end capacitor will make a slight improvement, in which way to solder it and basic tips for soldering.

 I'm a complete noob at soldering and DIY and feeling a inconvenience to do it and make a fatal mistake.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would just like to add to those of you who think us baggers are getting a "great deal" because we have a defective Compass to use as spare parts. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have absolutely no soldering or electronic assembly skills. If I did, I would build my own DAC and Amp. So, for me, the defective Compass is not spare parts but is simply a 5 kg doorstop. So, where are we baggers coming out ahead in this deal?

 Don't get me wrong...I appreciate that Audio-gd is replacing our Compass. But again, we received defective Compasses thru no fault of our own but because of the shipping company hired by Audio-gd...be it DHL or DHL's agent. Sure, we didn't have to ship the defective Compasses back, but if it had meant that my replacement would have been treated as a first priority, I would have paid the $65 to ship this thing back._

 

Well, I never said its a "great deal", I said on the "brighter side" of things, in any case even when it comes to shipping the Compass this weekend, Audio GD has kept, like you say its promise. Which is why I reiterate that communicating directly in such cases helps.

 Anyway, like I said earlier - I hope you get your Compass Soon and in perfect condition ! ..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would just like to add to those of you who think us baggers are getting a "great deal" because we have a defective Compass to use as spare parts. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have absolutely no soldering or electronic assembly skills. If I did, I would build my own DAC and Amp. So, for me, the defective Compass is not spare parts but is simply a 5 kg doorstop. So, where are we baggers coming out ahead in this deal?

 Don't get me wrong...I appreciate that Audio-gd is replacing our Compass. But again, we received defective Compasses thru no fault of our own but because of the shipping company hired by Audio-gd...be it DHL or DHL's agent. Sure, we didn't have to ship the defective Compasses back, but if it had meant that my replacement would have been treated as a first priority, I would have paid the $65 to ship this thing back._

 

Hello,
 You are of course correct in your observations. Many, many, many, many pages ago I laid a plan out for how to handle this and for Audio-GD to be a hero here. Part of my suggestion was cross ship new Compass' to each "bagger". The other point I mentioned was current production be diverted to replacements, and new orders would experience a slight delay, as replacements took priority. Of course I was "bagged" for some of that.

 The whole Idea of this was to put the problem behind us as QUICK as possible. The last thing A-GD should want is people to be continueing to be unhappy and posting about it. A lot of Good things have taken place, don't get me wrong. However, the suggestion that anyone was enriched by a bagged Compass's??? What a ludicrous assertion! Even if you think that, don't be so stupid as to say it.

 My suggestion to Kingwa, get this debacle behind you, TODAY. The "Factory Reps" here should quit being condescending and exhibit some empathy here for people who are still having issues weeks later. To come on and say, "hey, you got a Free Bag of crap" just doesn't work well in my opinion.

 .


----------



## theBigD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would just like to add to those of you who think us baggers are getting a "great deal" because we have a defective Compass to use as spare parts. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have absolutely no soldering or electronic assembly skills. If I did, I would build my own DAC and Amp. So, for me, the defective Compass is not spare parts but is simply a 5 kg doorstop. So, where are we baggers coming out ahead in this deal?

 Don't get me wrong...I appreciate that Audio-gd is replacing our Compass. But again, we received defective Compasses thru no fault of our own but because of the shipping company hired by Audio-gd...be it DHL or DHL's agent. Sure, we didn't have to ship the defective Compasses back, but if it had meant that my replacement would have been treated as a first priority, I would have paid the $65 to ship this thing back._

 

I understand your frustration, Ive had to wait for stuff as well and absolutely hate it especially when its been broken like your compass was. But most major companies like Sony for instance would not only make you ship the broken product back, but you would also have to wait for them to recieve the product, "inspect" it for damage and then at their discretion repair or replace the product. Ive worked retail, and its rare if not virtually unheard of that a manufacturer will ship out a replacement virtually sight unseen. Again I FEEL YOUR PAIN, and hope you get your compass soon, as it is an excellent product, and you paid for it and should get a replacement.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I understand your frustration, Ive had to wait for stuff as well and absolutely hate it especially when its been broken like your compass was. But most major companies like Sony for instance would not only make you ship the broken product back, but you would also have to wait for them to recieve the product, "inspect" it for damage and then at their discretion repair or replace the product. Ive worked retail, and its rare if not virtually unheard of that a manufacturer will ship out a replacement virtually sight unseen. Again I FEEL YOUR PAIN, and hope you get your compass soon, as it is an excellent product, and you paid for it and should get a replacement._

 

I don't want to start an argument here, but it's ironic you mention Sony. I just recently bought a refurbished DVD player thru Sony Style. When I got it, there were broken pieces in the bottom of the box. I immediately contacted Sony and they instructed me to return it. They then sent me an email containing a link to Fedex for a free return shipping label. Fedex came to my door the next day to pick it up. That same day, I received an email from Sony Style saying that a replacement was being readied for expedited shipping as they had received notice from Fedex that the returned unit had been picked up by Fedex. The next day, the replacement unit was shipped. I had it the following day. Total time...4 days. And this was for a $70 refurbished DVD player.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would just like to add to those of you who think us baggers are getting a "great deal" because we have a defective Compass to use as spare parts. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have absolutely no soldering or electronic assembly skills. If I did, I would build my own DAC and Amp. So, for me, the defective Compass is not spare parts but is simply a 5 kg doorstop. So, where are we baggers coming out ahead in this deal?

 Don't get me wrong...I appreciate that Audio-gd is replacing our Compass. But again, we received defective Compasses thru no fault of our own but because of the shipping company hired by Audio-gd...be it DHL or DHL's agent. Sure, we didn't have to ship the defective Compasses back, but if it had meant that my replacement would have been treated as a first priority, I would have paid the $65 to ship this thing back._

 

Sell it? Just because you dont have a use for the parts doesn't mean they don't have value - you could sell it either here or on ebay or something and consider it a discount. Gotta find the bright side, my man. But if that's too much hassle you could just ship it to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And comparing Sony to Audio-GD is very silly. Sony has the money and manpower to do something like that - Audio-GS is simply saying 'we're taking the hit - keep the busted one and we'll send a new one'... they could have asked for them back and either fixed them or used the working parts, but I'd have to think that would delay things even more. But you can bet you arse that's what Sony would do. You wouldn't notice the delay with them because they'd have more ready to go, but the'yd definitely either refurbish them or just gut them for parts.

 I'd have to think You ARE being treated as first priority - the compasses are hand-made. The ones that were being shipped before the baggers' were already being made specifically for those people. I'm sure they have a valid reason for doing it the way they are, and it probably has a lot to do with trying to avoid any more screw-ups. Not for nothing but you could always just cancel the order and get your money back.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sell it? Just because you dont have a use for the parts doesn't mean they don't have value - you could sell it either here or on ebay or somethign and consider it a discount. Gotta find the bright side, my man. But if that's too much hassle you could just ship it to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Selling it would be completely unethical. At least for me it would.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I understand your frustration, Ive had to wait for stuff as well and absolutely hate it especially when its been broken like your compass was. But most major companies like Sony for instance would not only make you ship the broken product back, but you would also have to wait for them to recieve the product, "inspect" it for damage and then at their discretion repair or replace the product. Ive worked retail, and its rare if not virtually unheard of that a manufacturer will ship out a replacement virtually sight unseen. Again I FEEL YOUR PAIN, and hope you get your compass soon, as it is an excellent product, and you paid for it and should get a replacement._

 

Depends on who you are dealing with. If it is ASUS, or Sony, or Samsung, yes, you are correct.

 This is a different situation. A-GD is a new company to most here, with a new product. They are trying to establsih a reputation. 

 As I mentioned before, I ordered a bulb for my TV a couple months ago, the vendor sent the wrong bulb, next day I had a new one at their expense. A few weeks later UPS called for a pickup on the old one.

 SUN, Cisco, a lot of HD manufacturers, Apple, I can go on and on about Companies that do busineess this way. It depends on the Company and whether they value theri reputation, and whether they can afford to take a hit by 50 people complaining or not. Sony don't care, you're right, 50 people can't hurt them. So, you see how they handle things.

 If Kingwa starts to do things like Sony or ASUS, he's out of business in this market. PERIOD.

 All replacements should be sent out ASAP. A-GD should be done with this as quick as possible.

 .


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Selling it would be completely unethical. At least for me it would._

 

How so? I'm not saying sell it like it's working - explain everything and say you're selling it for parts... how is that unethical?


----------



## theBigD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't want to start an argument here, but it's ironic you mention Sony. I just recently bought a refurbished DVD player thru Sony Style. When I got it, there were broken pieces in the bottom of the box. I immediately contacted Sony and they instructed me to return it. They then sent me an email containing a link to Fedex for a free return shipping label. Fedex came to my door the next day to pick it up. That same day, I received an email from Sony Style saying that a replacement was being readied for expedited shipping as they had received notice from Fedex that the returned unit had been picked up by Fedex. The next day, the replacement unit was shipped. I had it the following day. Total time...4 days. And this was for a $70 refurbished DVD player._

 

Sorry man, you've had a run of bad luck! Just trying to help you look on the bright side (that Kingwa is shipping a new one).


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How so? I'm not saying sell it like it's working - explain everything and say you're selling it for parts... how is that unethical?_

 

To me it's unethical because I received a replacement for it. If I were to sell it, I would be gaining something at Audo-gd's expense. If you would have no problem selling it, then that's you. I guess I have a different value system.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To me it's unethical because I received a replacement for it. If I were to sell it, I would be gaining something at Audo-gd's expense. If you would have no problem selling it, then that's you. I guess I have a different value system._

 

OK... but he told you to keep it - which means it is yours to do with what you will - THIS is his way of fixing it, of making good on a bad situation. I really don't see how that's a bad thing, but to each their own.


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How so? I'm not saying sell it like it's working - explain everything and say you're selling it for parts... how is that unethical?_

 

It may not be unethical but I would feel "dirty" doing it. I am not criticizing you if you did it, I just would not feel right about it.
 The baggers are right. they probably should get priority over the rest of us. I would thinks thats fair.
 Audio GD is doing a great job other wise.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theBigD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry man, you've had a run of bad luck! Just trying to help you look on the bright side (that Kingwa is shipping a new one)._

 

No worries...I just wanted to share a recent experience that there are companies out there that do the right thing.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No worries...I just wanted to share a recent experience that there are companies out there that do the right thing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ecclesand, I hope I did not aggravate you by my post, it wasn't my intentions, and if I accidentally did so, I apologize.

 I was only trying to express my point of view and the way I saw things. To me I think Audio GD laid its options in resolving the issue of baggers in front of all of us and I think everyone accepted it gladly.
 Reading by your post, I thought he had promised to ship your Compass today, which I think he has. I also feel Audio GD might not be one of the companies that does it right, but I would disagree that it did not make an honest effort to get things right. Maybe the fact that they didnt ask for the damaged compass back was one of the ways he was trying to correct things, I understand its of no use to you, but many Companies that we are all talking about great service would have asked back for the damaged item only to resell it as refurbished and make some money.

 In any case, I am sure this is a learning experience for everyone, for you, for me and I sure even for Audio GD, we all make mistakes.

 As for my statement for communicating directly with Audio Gd on such issues, I meant, if you look at your posts today, in one posts you were quite dissapointed that you Compass wasn't being shipped today as promised by Audio GD, this post ticked off someone too, but after 10 mins you come up with another post saying your Compass was going to be shipped today, which for you was good news, it was in this context that I thought if you would have communicated with Audio GD first and then posted your disappointment, it would have been better.. nothing else. I personally know that I feel bad about the guys out here who got their Compass in bags, but the last thing I would do is stand with a banner or be some kind of union leader to express my feelings.
 I understand lot of people even after reading this post will say whatever they feel right, not that it effects me, but I will always stand by a decent person, a decent company that has given me ( and so many people that I can read) the opportunity buy and own some quality audio gears, or anything or anybody for that matter. It is just one of the values I hold.


*@ Mr. Les Garten*: Les, to me you seem a really weak person and failure in real life, because it seems you never let go of an opportunity to go aggressive, throw a punch at someone, call people names or whatever you might think they are, tell people how to behave, what to say or even someone how to run a company. But I am sure you can only do such things on internet and forums because you cant and don't have the ability to do this in real life. If honestly - I feel sorry for you.


----------



## mbd2884

@ ecclesand

 Parts, the Compass is modular. So you can just unscrew all the parts and sell to someone else or just donate or have someone screw it up and piece it together in a new case.

 For an extra hundred dollars seems to me you could have a second Compass, one for work, one for home, school or whatever. I'm sure someone in the DIY forums be glad to help you out in this matter. Be creative.

 @ Les, how can Audio-gd just send out a replacement part the next day if they only have 15 people hand building the Compass and various other products? If someone wants service that giant Corporation can provide because they have a warehouse of unsold product to send out replacement parts with, then they should buy from Sony.
 For what seems to be a team of 20 people who are providing support and service to the entire world and keeping up with the reputed work/service in China, seems to me they are doing a great job.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ecclesand, I hope I did not aggravate you by my post, it wasn't my intentions, and if I accidentally did so, I apologize.

 <snip> 

 As for my statement for communicating directly with Audio Gd on such issues, I meant, if you look at your posts today, in one posts you were quite dissapointed that you Compass wasn't being shipped today as promised by Audio GD, this post ticked off someone too, but after 10 mins you come up with another post saying your Compass was going to be shipped today, which for you was good news, it was in this context that I thought if you would have communicated with Audio GD first and then posted your disappointment, it would have been better.. nothing else. I personally know that I feel bad about the guys out here who got their Compass in bags, but the last thing I would do is stand with a banner or be some kind of union leader to express my feelings.
 I understand lot of people even after reading this post will say whatever they feel right, not that it effects me, but I will always stand by a decent person, a decent company that has given me ( and so many people that I can read) the opportunity buy and own some quality audio gears, or anything or anybody for that matter. It is just one of the values I hold.

 <snip>_

 

No apology necessary as I took no offense to your post because you are right. I looked back to the 18th (a week ago yesterday) and saw that folks were getting emails from Cherry by that evening that their new compasses were shipping. It was already later than exactly a week later (last night) so I assumed (wrongly of course) that we had missed the shipping window for this weekend already. Hence, I posted my disappointment. *You're right, I should have contacted Kingwa directly before posting...that is my bad and I apologize to everyone for it.*


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No apology necessary as I took no offense to your post because you are right. I looked back to the 18th (a week ago yesterday) and saw that folks were getting emails from Cherry by that evening that their new compasses were shipping. It was already later than exactly a week later (last night) so I assumed (wrongly of course) that we had missed the shipping window for this weekend already. Hence, I posted my disappointment. *You're right, I should have contacted Kingwa directly before posting...that is my bad and I apologize to everyone for it.*_

 

Stay excited. I hope when you receive the Compass you will be overjoyed and be able to forget the mess DHL and it's agent placed upon you!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_

*@ Mr. Les Garten*: Les, to me you seem a really weak person and failure in real life, because it seems you never let go of an opportunity to go aggressive, throw a punch at someone, call people names or whatever you might think they are, tell people how to behave, what to say or even someone how to run a company. But I am sure you can only do such things on internet and forums because you cant and don't have the ability to do this in real life. If honestly - I feel sorry for you._

 

If this makes you feel better to say this, I hope you're feeling great!

 The FACTS are, that some people still don't have their problems resolved, that's why they are posting. Get it! And I KNOW some who never post, just complain offline. It is in A-GD's interest to FIX this ASAP. That's it, simple! NO PROBLEMS, NO COMPLAINTS. NO BAD POSTS. That's how a market is supposed to work.

 The people who had already paid should be serviced first, my OPINION. Every issue in a bag should be priority ONE. Get that crap off your plate, QUICK.

 The reason why it's a good idea to post here, is that you can get put to the side if you don't, even if you are emailing. I know this from experience. If you post here, it is AMAZING what happens and how fast it happens. Matter of minutes.

 You can try to spin your statements after the fact all you want, but you can see how they were received. In this post where you try your spin on me and the OP, you apologize to the guy you referenced the nonsense to in the first place, and then go after me for referencing the nonsense you are apologizing for. 

 Here's where your sympathy and empathy are lacking. Hypothetical scenario:

 I order a Compass in Feb or March
 I get it in a "BAG" in April
 There's some Ruminations and it is determined to be replaced
 I'm told to keep the "Bag" of parts
 New orders get their Compass before me and now it's weeks later

 I'm told how the Bright side of things is that I got a Free "Bag" of parts, comprised of a Compass that looks like it came out of a "Rock Tumbler". Basically be happy and shut up because I got a FREE "Bag" of parts.

 If you think about how you might feel if your new gear came like this, you might understand. If you think how you might feel if someone told you how lucky you were to get a Free bag of parts, you might understand.

 I got some pretty sickening stories and had some sickening phone calls from people describing how they felt when they saw their gear. If I had permission I wold post them to educate you Sandchak, about how sick some folks were when they got their gear.

 Your lack of Empathy here is Truly amazing.

 Here's MY real deal on this. These guys should have received their replacements before ONE other Compass went to ANYONE else. I think that is what this is all about. 

 I ordered my Compass Feb 7. The only reason I didn't get a BJ(Bag-Job) is mine was in my REF 1 box. Lucky for me. Dodged that Bullet. 

 .


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's MY real deal on this. These guys should have received their replacements before ONE other Compass went to ANYONE else. I think that is what this is all about._

 

That pretty much sums it up for me.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That pretty much sums it up for me._

 

I didn't know if he had shipped mine separate or not that day. I was sweating. I figured even one of those new Hefty bags that will hold a Piano couldn't hold the REF 1. So was hoping I was safe.

 Basically, you've been inconvenienced, and a Bag Of Crap ain't gonna fix that, or ablate the sickness you felt when that "Bag" showed up.

 Best thing for everybody is to FIX it Quick.

 NO PROBLEMS NO BAD POSTS

 .


----------



## driftingbunnies

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That pretty much sums it up for me._

 

X2

 another long week without a compass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I feel like if they really put mine as a priority, I'd be listening to it right now.


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's MY real deal on this. These guys should have received their replacements before ONE other Compass went to ANYONE else. I think that is what this is all about._

 

Why? Why cause problems with a whole bunch of new customers? No corporation works this way that I know of. The "good" companies you mentioned are multinational billionaire dollar leading edge companies who don't have single points of failure and have the means of aiding customers who have been injured in some way. 

 Audio-gd is obviously a small company and they dealt with the problems within 24 hours. From the time they were made aware of the problems to the time they spoke with DHL they issued posts to the public both here and on their site indicating how they are dealing with the situation and how each customer is to proceed in order to get a new unit. 

 They have a process, they have been transparent about the process. The situation is unfortunate for those who lost out on the new unit immediately. Some folks have a functioning unit but it is scuffed, others have a fully damaged units. No unit needs to be returned, meaning that some people have something to listen and is likely as good as a brand new perfect condition unit. Those that are without functioning units are obviously awaiting a new one, and they are on their way. 

 Seriously, people need to chill out just a little bit. The ongoing soap opera from a few members is nauseating to read particularly when the most vocal of the bunch HAS a perfectly functioning unit. 

 If we had a manufacturer who wasn't addressing the situation, who was silent, who was unwilling to make things right, then I could understand all the hoop-la but given how well this has been handled, how promptly, I think everyone should let Kingwa make new units and ship them out. Waiting a few weeks for a new unit (when it seems these are made to order and not sitting on some shelf) seems very reasonable. If people who have working units are so up in arms about the time delays, why don't they help the situation? Ship YOUR working unit out to a person who had a bagged one and how about YOU wait for a new unit. At least this would be justification enough for the ongoing moaning and groaning.

 In fact, I'll put my money where my mouth is. If anyone is truly feeling so bloody slighted that they require a Compass immediately, I'll ship them my own unit with the explicit and total understanding that the incoming new unit will be shipped to me instead. I'm willing to wait and see that Kingwa makes it right.


----------



## driftingbunnies

The thing is, the "problem" for a bunch of new customers would probably bump them back to the next shipping day which would be 3 days later. If that's too much to ask of the head-fi community, then my bad. I didn't know the 10 or so people who didn't get their compasses were less important than everyone else. Another head-fier had said that would have been fine with them. I mean seriously, just think about it. I want to say half of us have been waiting almost 2 months now when some of the people who ordered in early April waited maybe 1/4 of that time. an extra 3 days for them wouldn't kill them. it won't kill me either, but it just makes me more frustrated.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seriously, people need to chill out just a little bit. The ongoing soap opera from a few members is nauseating to read particularly when the most vocal of the bunch HAS a perfectly functioning unit._

 

Sorry you feel that way. I'm sure if you had received your Compass mangled in a bag to find that it didn't even work, and then had to wait more than 2 weeks for a replacement, you would be singing a different tune. But, I guess we'll never know, will we?


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry you feel that way. I'm sure if you had received your Compass mangled in a bag to find that it didn't even work, you would be singing a different tune. But, I guess we'll never know, will we?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh please, get off your high horse. How about this - I bought an amp that cost 10x the Compass and IT came damaged. Not only that but the seller was a complete ass and wasn't willing to help with the repairs/expenses/filing the complaint with the courier etc. I had to go back and forth for months and finally I got a friend and fellow head-fier to fix the unit (he did so for free which was nice) and then he modified it too (which I paid for). 

 If you do a search for past posts on this situation you will note I didn't complain 1/1000th the level some here are. In fact I didn't complain at all, I just posted about what happened and then went on my merry way figuring out a way of remedying the situation. I didn't have the benefit of keeping the old unit and getting a brand new one. I didn't have the benefit of an accommodating manufacturer ensuring things were going to go smoothly and I certainly didn't have the support of many who were in the same situation. 

 So, if you are so sore over this, then take my unit. It is in mint condition, comes with the Moon and has an additional 100 hours on it. Situation resolved for you. The only thing you need to do is agree that when your unit is ready to ship, Kingwa sends it to me instead.


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The thing is, the "problem" for a bunch of new customers would probably bump them back to the next shipping day which would be 3 days later. If that's too much to ask of the head-fi community, then my bad. I didn't know the 10 or so people who didn't get their compasses were less important than everyone else. Another head-fier had said that would have been fine with them. I mean seriously, just think about it. I want to say half of us have been waiting almost 2 months now when some of the people who ordered in early April waited maybe 1/4 of that time. an extra 3 days for them wouldn't kill them. it won't kill me either, but it just makes me more frustrated._

 

Are you certain it would be an extra 3 days? There are 10 people, is that it? 10 units then to come out? Shouldn't take too long, so given the damage and the situation, what has been the total extended time and what is the expected time frame to ship and the ETA on delivery? If you can't provide solid numbers for those 10, how can you honestly expect anyone to accept the hazarded guess of an extra 3 days time for those who are just submitting now (well, realistically who did so a while ago and have their units in the queue going out now).

 Is it too much for to ask of the community? I'd say no, not at all, again I'm willing to give my unit away right now and I'm willing to wait. But requesting the community to wait and requesting randomly anyone to isn't the same thing. Kingwa is taking care of the situation right? Usual replacement times for many companies who don't have new units is 6-8 weeks? Yep that is a truism.... so is a 6-8 week timeframe suitable? Yeah it is. It means that the injured parties (10 or so) had a big delay but it means only 10 were affected (that we know of). Why increase the numbers? No logic there.

 Edit: reading ecclesand's post, the expected extra time is only 2 weeks and this has people furious? Dang, I'm honestly and completely shocked.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh please, get off your high horse. How about this - I bought an amp that cost 10x the Compass and IT came damaged. Not only that but the seller was a complete ass and wasn't willing to help with the repairs/expenses/filing the complaint with the courier etc. I had to go back and forth for months and finally I got a friend and fellow head-fier to fix the unit (he did so for free which was nice) and then he modified it too (which I paid for). 

 If you do a search for past posts on this situation you will note I didn't complain 1/1000th the level some here are. In fact I didn't complain at all, I just posted about what happened and then went on my merry way figuring out a way of remedying the situation. I didn't have the benefit of keeping the old unit and getting a brand new one. I didn't have the benefit of an accommodating manufacturer ensuring things were going to go smoothly and I certainly didn't have the support of many who were in the same situation. 

 So, if you are so sore over this, then take my unit. It is in mint condition, comes with the Moon and has an additional 100 hours on it. Situation resolved for you. The only thing you need to do is agree that when your unit is ready to ship, Kingwa sends it to me instead._

 

No high horse for me. As for your experience with another amp costing 10X the Compass and the problems you had, I feel for you...that sucks and I would never have told you how I think you should feel or handle your situation. And, as for your offer, my replacement shipped late yesterday per Kingwa. Had you made that offer 2 weeks ago, I would have taken it.


----------



## Zanth

My point isn't to dismiss feelings of regret, of anxiousness or of impatience. My point is to emphasize first and foremost that Audio-gd acted quickly and respectfully to those injured parties. Two weeks is an insignificant timeframe to wait and the fact that one didn't have to wait for the damaged unit to be returned (which is quite customary) is also a sign that Audio-gd was acting in the best interest of the customer. 

 What irks me even more is when I read from a poster who HAS a working unit and he's keeping the negativity going. 

 I don't know what the average age of people who received a bagged version and are complaining by I swear to you that my highly impatient two year old daughter has more restraint than I'm reading in this thread.

 The negativity expressed is on par with many of the posts in the Single Power thread and there are folks who have been seriously maligned, our out thousand with pretty much no hope of getting anything back in their hands. It is simply a misplaced level of angst againt a manufacturer who made great strides in fixing a situation and all that was asked in return is a 2-3 week wait until a new unit was built, burned in and shipped. 2-3 weeks? and we see this much sqawking? Imagine if something really bad happened to these people


----------



## driftingbunnies

So since I have to wait an extra week or so more than a regular bagger do i get the right to complain? 

 Does it really matter if it's 10 or 9 or maybe even 2 people that was bagged? Let's say that there were 100. Worst case scenario. Have you ever heard of back orders? From what I've learned, back orders should always be filled first. No ifs ands or buts. Basically a bagger=back order so is it so hard to justify baggers getting it the next week instead of 2-3 weeks later? It's not like i was expecting a compass the day after i rejected mine. 

 Sure it's handmade and they're working at below cost or w/e. Yes they are doing us a favor, but in the end they do get a lot more than we do. Just think of head-fi as a gold mine. 

 Sorry about your loss but to many of us, this $300-400 compass is equal to a 5k-10k item to us. I'm pretty sure this is the first good equipment or maybe the last that we would buy so hopefully you would respect our investment just like we will respect yours. 

 I'm just trying to vent a bit and see if there are others out there like me. No need to be all huffy and puffy about this subject. It's not like me venting will make it come any faster. Just good for my health.






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you certain it would be an extra 3 days? There are 10 people, is that it? 10 units then to come out? Shouldn't take too long, so given the damage and the situation, what has been the total extended time and what is the expected time frame to ship and the ETA on delivery? If you can't provide solid numbers for those 10, how can you honestly expect anyone to accept the hazarded guess of an extra 3 days time for those who are just submitting now (well, realistically who did so a while ago and have their units in the queue going out now).

 Is it too much for to ask of the community? I'd say no, not at all, again I'm willing to give my unit away right now and I'm willing to wait. But requesting the community to wait and requesting randomly anyone to isn't the same thing. Kingwa is taking care of the situation right? Usual replacement times for many companies who don't have new units is 6-8 weeks? Yep that is a truism.... so is a 6-8 week timeframe suitable? Yeah it is. It means that the injured parties (10 or so) had a big delay but it means only 10 were affected (that we know of). Why increase the numbers? No logic there.

 Edit: reading ecclesand's post, the expected extra time is only 2 weeks and this has people furious? Dang, I'm honestly and completely shocked._


----------



## moodyrn

Zanth I completely agree with your comments about people with a completely good working compass complaining. I'm baffled by that. If nothing is wrong with yours, why are you pitching a fit. I do understand why some people with a damaged compass might be a little upset. I do feel that some of the complaining is a little over the top considering audio-gd is doing his best to make things right. A lot of people with damaged compasses have their compass on the way as we speak. Keep in mind this is a very small company, and we all knew that before making the purchase. The fact is, audio-gd could have taken a much different approach. I have been burned several times in the past by companies wanting me to shipped the damaged product back at my expense, and I had to wait until they received it before they sent out a replacement. All for damage that was their fault. But I do understand being impatient for a product you have paid for long ago. But in reality, it could have been a lot worse(IMO).


----------



## Zanth

I own a Compass. If you can't wait I'll send you mine. I received mine a couple of weeks ago in perfect condition. I have the original boxes and the Moon HDAM. If you want, I'll ship it out tomorrow. Will that solve your problems? 

 What is telling is how my being huffy puffy is frowned upon though people complaining endlessly (and rather needlessly) are somehow permitted to do so because they have a short delay. Action has been taken, the situation is being remedied... that is my single point. The continued negative posts are indicative of a lackluster manufacturer unwilling to fix things. This is not so. It means Audio-gd is being misrepresented by these negative posts. It means that new people reading the most recent posts might get the impression that Audio-gd is not a noble manufacturer which is the opposite of the truth. For this reason I get "huffy and puffy" because those who ARE huffy and puffy are impatient and ridiculous in their demands. 

 What other gear I own has no bearing on these posts, I merely responded by stating that I suffered a far worse situation and never made this much commotion. In essence, people are blowing it out of proportion particularly those who are posting who have no reason to complain. they have perfectly working units.


----------



## AudioPhewl

This is all wrong.

 I'm sorry for the people who ended up with bagged units. I understand how frustrating it must be to wait for the unit to ship initially, then have the disappointment when things have gone wrong.

 It wasn't Audio-GD's fault that these were repackaged with terrible consequences. Nor is it the customers. It's a bad situation for all involved.

 However, Audio-GD have made good what they can in this situation. They are shipping brand new units out to all those affected, with no return shipping needed.

 You lot are expecting to be dealt with in the same manner as a big manufacturer - Sony, Dell, IBM... whatever. You're asking too much, plain and simple. This is a small company, who hand-build their products. This isn't mass-produced tat from a big-brand, who have the money and resources available to ship replacement items from stock.

 We're talking about a small company here. They simply won't have the logistics in place to act in such a way. If they did, then I'm sure they would.

 Every person has had a delay from placing the order to it being shipped. That's the nature of dealing with a small company, producing good in low volumes. It is _not_ wrong to expect a similar delay for the replacements to be built and shipped.

 Your situations are less than ideal, but you're asking for other customers to suffer additional delays for their products - which simply isn't right. Your situations are unfortunate, but that doesn't mean other innocent parties should be subjected to problems not related to their goods or orders.

 Yeah, I'd be annoyed if I'd received a damaged baggy. But I'd not be crying about it like you lot are. If you want something exceeding the service, goods and promises given by Kingwa and Audio-GD, then go pay full-rate money to a mainstream provider.

 Audio-GD aren't making retail money on these. You are foolish to expect the exact same service as you'd expect from Denon or Marantz. If you do want that experience, then go and pay retail money to a manufacturer in your own country.

 If you're not willing to spend the money a retail item would cost, then pipe down and stop acting like children. Anyone who thinks Audio-GD is getting a better deal from these units than yourself is, frankly, being stupid. It was established long ago that Audio-GD make next to nothing on these units - hence why they perform so superbly for the money. But they are resolving the situation fully, and out of their own pocket. There is no insurance to claim from, as they were shafted by a third-party rather than the courier.

 They build these at cost. They ship them at cost. Your $320 toy cost them virtually all of that. And they are shipping a new one to you - so your $320 toy has still cost you $320, yet it has cost Audio-GD $320 out of their own pocket.

 I am saddened to see parts of the community acting with such little understanding or tolerance. If you're so pissed, then ship it back and ask Kingwa to refund the cost of the unit. Go buy something commercial, and move on from the situation.

 For a small company to take that kind of hit is very, very hard. For you lot to bitch that it's taking 2 weeks for them to resolve it is, frankly, disgusting.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I own a Compass. If you can't wait I'll send you mine. I received mine a couple of weeks ago in perfect condition. I have the original boxes and the Moon HDAM. If you want, I'll ship it out tomorrow. Will that solve your problems? 

 What is telling is how my being huffy puffy is frowned upon though people complaining endlessly (and rather needlessly) are somehow permitted to do so because they have a short delay. Action has been taken, the situation is being remedied... that is my single point. The continued negative posts are indicative of a lackluster manufacturer unwilling to fix things. This is not so. It means Audio-gd is being misrepresented by these negative posts. It means that new people reading the most recent posts might get the impression that Audio-gd is not a noble manufacturer which is the opposite of the truth. For this reason I get "huffy and puffy" because those who ARE huffy and puffy are impatient and ridiculous in their demands. 

 What other gear I own has no bearing on these posts, I merely responded by stating that I suffered a far worse situation and never made this much commotion. In essence, people are blowing it out of proportion particularly those who are posting who have no reason to complain. they have perfectly working units._

 

I think you are continually missing my point. 

 I really don't care about the time frames involved here.

 Just because my Compass came fine, doesn't mean I can't state an Opinion.

 My point was the invalidation of these guys feelings. As you are doing. They were basically told to shut up and be happy they got a free bag of junk and quit their crying.

 Who cares if you had a worse experience with Singlepower, that is irrelevant. When I see someone who has a legitimate statement or observation told how lucky he was that he ended up with a bag of parts. I made a statement. It seems if you are not a RAH RAH, you are attacked in this thread. I own and am getting ready to buy more Audio-GD gear than most likely 99% of this thread. So it's not like I have some Axe to grind with A-GD. Quite the contrary, I think he has the most interesting gear out there. 

 He has handled this issue extremely well with a few exceptions, and they are vocalizing as is their right.

 .


----------



## karthur

...Like Axl Rose said, all we need is a little patience. That said, if I was one of you baggers I'd be pissed...however I also think you should also shut up and don't ruin a good thing with audio-gd.


----------



## j2kei

ok well if we ignore all this anger over the bagged compasses for a sec, more and more people are having compasses, but where are all the impressions? compass too good that owners just disappear?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *karthur* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...Like Axl Rose said, all we need is a little patience. That said, if I was one of you baggers I'd be pissed...however I also think you should also shut up and don't ruin a good thing with audio-gd._

 

A customer of mine told me this a long time ago:
*
 "The Customer who Complains is doing you a Favor"*

 The more you think about that statement, the more profound it becomes.

 Kingwa obviously understands this WELL!

 Because of the Vocalization in this thread, A-GD is making a much better product. Look at the first C-2C! Total DIY look. Now looks like the Compass' Sibling, as do a number of other products. Well fitted and finished.

 If people would have been allowed to tell everybody to shut up, there wouldn't be a pre-amp function, all the controls would be mis-aligned, wierd labels, etc, etc.

 When Customers quit talking to you and about you, or you quit listening, you are out of business.

 .


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am saddened to see parts of the community acting with such little understanding or tolerance. If you're so pissed, then ship it back and ask Kingwa to refund the cost of the unit. Go buy something commercial, and move on from the situation.

 For a small company to take that kind of hit is very, very hard. For you lot to bitch that it's taking 2 weeks for them to resolve it is, frankly, disgusting.

 ~Phewl._

 

And thank you for your sanctimonious rant. Now, please go back to enjoying your Compass....that works.


----------



## Zanth

les, did Kingwa tell anyone to suck it up? Did Audio-gd backpedal on any promise to remedy the situation? Has Kingwa done anything that has not be outright extraordinary given the nature of the product and the size of his business? 

 No to all of those questions.

 So, for those who are continually complaining, yeah, I say suck it up because honestly it comes across as nothing but naive and selfish meanderings of spoiled folks. The expectation that others should suffer so that their suffering might be diminished? The idea that having to do absolutely nothing but wait for a new unit is somehow NOT over the top customer service? 

 Come on now... all of this continued complaining does no one any good. It means people who are coming to a thread to read about a given product has to tread through a pile of muddy posts that have nothing to do with a product but have everything to do with a third party company who screwed up and a dozen or so folks were caught up in it all. It means drama for the sake of drama and that is it. It is also completely misrepresenting Kingwa who as been impeccable with his customer service.

 You points about customers complaining is idiotic. There are people who have nothing better to do that complain. Might be a bee in their bonnet or it might be they have a sad life without much else to focus on, but whatever the cause, there are plenty who do nothing but moan and complain. Manufacturers big and small, business owners big and small IGNORE these people because you know what? In the end, those people will never be happy and they take too much time and effort to deal with, meaning that energy could have been better spent helping more deserving customers and/or spent in R&D mode or whatever.

 But this thread isn't a microeconomics course nor a small business management seminar. It is a thread about a pretty cool product that does a whole lot for not a lot of money from a manufacturer who has been nothing but deserving of praise because he listens to the community wholeheartedly. 

 Very few people got a bagged amp. Some of those people had amps that simply did not work. ALL of those people keep the old stuff and get a completely new unit within what is turning to to be under 1 month from the start of the debacle. Audio-gd has gone above and beyond what is necessary (Kingwa could have easily waited for the courier to pick up each unit deliver them back to China, have DHL examine each, reimburse Audio-gd who then in turn ships out another amp to the customer), think 2 weeks is long? That process could have been 6 months with the red tape and international process.

 So like you with your opinion, I get to voice mine. You claim that you aren't posting negatively about Kingwa but I could comb through your posts over the last few pages and pluck out a dozen sentences that are completely contradictory to that statement. That is my beef. Kingwa has been awesome and no one has the right to spin this as if he hasn't been.


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And thank you for your sanctimonious rant. Now, please go back to enjoying your Compass....that works._

 

It will be grand when you get yours within the next few days so you can stop using that as an excuse for your posts.

 I'll revoice my original offer but now with a few changes:

*For [size=medium]anyone[/size] that is so slighted by these events and feels they simply [size=medium]can not wait the few weeks[/size] to get their new Compass, [size=medium]I will ship my Compass to them AND I'll pay for return shipping to myself[/size] once your new one arrives. That's right, you get to have the brand new one and you get to use my perfect one until yours arrives.*

 There, now the complaining about not having a working unit can stop, at least for one person. Les, if you are so broken up over folks not having a usable unit, maybe you would like to extend the same offer? After all, we are a community right? We should stick together?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_les, did Kingwa tell anyone to suck it up? Did Audio-gd backpedal on any promise to remedy the situation? Has Kingwa done anything that has not be outright extraordinary given the nature of the product and the size of his business? 

 No to all of those questions.

 So, for those who are continually complaining, yeah, I say suck it up because honestly it comes across as nothing but naive and selfish meanderings of spoiled folks. The expectation that others should suffer so that their suffering might be diminished? The idea that having to do absolutely nothing but wait for a new unit is somehow NOT over the top customer service? 

 Come on now... all of this continued complaining does no one any good. It means people who are coming to a thread to read about a given product has to tread through a pile of muddy posts that have nothing to do with a product but have everything to do with a third party company who screwed up and a dozen or so folks were caught up in it all. It means drama for the sake of drama and that is it. It is also completely misrepresenting Kingwa who as been impeccable with his customer service.

 You points about customers complaining is idiotic. There are people who have nothing better to do that complain. Might be a bee in their bonnet or it might be they have a sad life without much else to focus on, but whatever the cause, there are plenty who do nothing but moan and complain. Manufacturers big and small, business owners big and small IGNORE these people because you know what? In the end, those people will never be happy and they take too much time and effort to deal with, meaning that energy could have been better spent helping more deserving customers and/or spent in R&D mode or whatever.

 But this thread isn't a microeconomics course nor a small business management seminar. It is a thread about a pretty cool product that does a whole lot for not a lot of money from a manufacturer who has been nothing but deserving of praise because he listens to the community wholeheartedly. 

 Very few people got a bagged amp. Some of those people had amps that simply did not work. ALL of those people keep the old stuff and get a completely new unit within what is turning to to be under 1 month from the start of the debacle. Audio-gd has gone above and beyond what is necessary (Kingwa could have easily waited for the courier to pick up each unit deliver them back to China, have DHL examine each, reimburse Audio-gd who then in turn ships out another amp to the customer), think 2 weeks is long? That process could have been 6 months with the red tape and international process.

 So like you with your opinion, I get to voice mine. You claim that you aren't posting negatively about Kingwa but I could comb through your posts over the last few pages and pluck out a dozen sentences that are completely contradictory to that statement. That is my beef. Kingwa has been awesome and no one has the right to spin this as if he hasn't been._

 

WOW, not much to say to someone who thinks like this. 

 Like I said, you keep missing the point.

 Let me rephrase the point you keep missing.

 If you come to this thread and you're not a Cheerleader, you get attacked!

 The ONLY dig I had on Kingwa goes back to the day this happened. Which was put this behind you quick so that it goes away as quick as possible. That was my advice. I must say after these posts, it seems like it was good advice.

 Then there would be no conversations like today.

 .


----------



## Currawong

Les, you need to learn when to shut yourself up.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Les, you need to learn when to shut yourself up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You illustrate my point Perfectly, thanx!

 .


----------



## Zanth

Apparently Les, what a reasonable person understands as quickly dealing with a situation and what your instataneous notion is are worlds apart, literally and figuratively. 

 I got your point. My point is that Kingwa did deal with this quickly, he just didn't live up to your impossible standards. And because he didn't live up to your absolutely impossible standards he somehow deserves your ongoing negative posts? No, sadly he doesn't deserve it and we don't deserve having to read this over and over again. 

 He did his job, he did what most would think is ethical and he even went well beyond by hooking up the dozen folks with new units and really no delay in returns/refund/reship fiasco. The ONLY thing he didn't do is screw other customers with a delay they would not deserve. But you think everyone should deserve a delay so that those bagged folks get a unit first.

 So again I ask, why won't you offer up your unit to someone who is waiting with much angst considering you have a Ref 1? Why not help out the same community you are claiming should be supporting these "harmed" individuals? 

 You aren't offering to help. You aren't helping at all, not by posting or otherwise.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apparently Les, what a reasonable person understands as quickly dealing with a situation and what your instataneous notion is are worlds apart, literally and figuratively. 

 I got your point. My point is that Kingwa did deal with this quickly, he just didn't live up to your impossible standards. And because he didn't live up to your absolutely impossible standards he somehow deserves your ongoing negative posts? No, sadly he doesn't deserve it and we don't deserve having to read this over and over again. 

 He did his job, he did what most would think is ethical and he even went well beyond by hooking up the dozen folks with new units and really no delay in returns/refund/reship fiasco. The ONLY thing he didn't do is screw other customers with a delay they would not deserve. But you think everyone should deserve a delay so that those bagged folks get a unit first.

 So again I ask, why won't you offer up your unit to someone who is waiting with much angst considering you have a Ref 1? Why not help out the same community you are claiming should be supporting these "harmed" individuals? 

 You aren't offering to help. You aren't helping at all, not by posting or otherwise._

 

You still don't get it unfortunately. My problem was with Sandchak attacking and invalidating what these guys said. Had he not started the "be happy you got a free bag of junk nonsense", we wouldn't be here.

 The rest of your assertion here is of course ludicrous. 

 1) My Compass is in service 24 hours a day doing work for me.
 2) I have no obligation to replace Broken Gear. That is up to the Seller.

 .


----------



## ecclesand

The reason I continue to post is to defend myself from the various posters who feel the need to champion Audio-gd by attacking me. I voiced my frustration….and yes, it is frustration, not anger…and get attacked by Zanth and Audiophewl. Why is this? Do they have some vested interest in Audio-gd? Probably not. Perhaps they feel the need to defend Audio-gd because they have received what they ordered and are happy with that product. Their experiences were perfect in every way. I can certainly see that…who wouldn’t want to sing the praises of a company that has provided you with a great product and quality service? Well folks…I and others have yet to experience this from Audio-gd. I am taking…on faith…Audio-gd’s word that I will receive a replacement Compass. You attackers have consistently ranted that Audio-gd has behaved admirably in the resolution of this issue…as if the resolution has already taken place. Guess what…it hasn’t yet. Myself and others are still waiting for their replacement Compass.

 So, for those of you who feel it necessary to ride to the defense of Audio-gd, get over yourselves. You overestimate your own importance.


----------



## ScottieB

I can speak from experience and say that in the couple of times I have had issues with Audio-GDs products, Kingwa has made good and then some - I am very confident that he will make good on what is an admittedly very unfortunate situation.


----------



## driftingbunnies

This is ridiculous. nobody cares anymore. I feel like the delay that you speak of will not be as ridiculous as you make it sound but nobody knows.

 Just cuz the compass is sold at cost doesn't mean they don't profit off the other stuff that we buy in the future.

 Sure they're not a big company. But that's the whole point of ordering from them. I'm from austin and it's filled with mom and pop shops. If you want customer service that's where you go. Not Sony or anything like that. So to expect that they treat us with care is not out of the question. Like i said, we are the gold mine. Yes it's a great deal but I'm sure we will all live if audio-gd did not exist. A lot of their wait times are arbitrary anyway. As long as they weren't promised one thing but told another later on, i feel that there is some slack that a-gd could have used. If you are such a big advocate of them, maybe you should work for them. that would be great help since then we'd be able to talk about this more rationally from a business prospective.


----------



## Zanth

*sigh*

 ATTACKING Kingwa had no bearing on the situation. If Sandchak or anyone else was slamming folks outright then yeah, that sucks, but somehow bringing Kingwa and the way he dealt with the situation into play was your doing and your continued use of some magical ideal which Audio-gd was supposed to live up to is what gets me.

 You complain about how the community responded to people complaining. You call out the community saying they should support those injured parties. The manufacturer who does have a moral, ethical and legal obligation to make things right IS MAKING things right, so leave him out of it, that is all I'm about in this, that and your harping on the overall community means that you feel there is something worthwhile in this community, so do I. So, because I feel so strongly AND I also understand the frustration in not receiving a working amp I'm willing to give up my Compass for a time to help those in need. Mine is in use every moment I'm working and I work a lot. I'm willing to forgo that joy to make someone else happy. 

 I see you are not. That's fine, no one said you have an ethical, moral or legal obligation. But being part of a community sometimes means helping out others. You aren't helping a manufacturer who is remedying a situation by claiming he botched it, which he didn't. 

 You aren't helping by supporting those complaining because they have to wait an insignificant time. 

 You aren't helping by offering up your own unit to stave off some of the malaise people are reporting from not receiving a working unit.

 In essence, you aren't helping in any way but you are complaining a whole lot!

Edit: rereading the last couple of pages, all this complaining doesn't help anyone, my complaining included.

 So how about this:

 1) we all admit the baggers got screwed by a third party company
 2) we all admit that Kingwa's offering to send a new amp was great
 3) we all admit it sucks having to wait when one has waited for a time already
 4) we try to understand that making others wait because of your own screwed up situation isn't classy or right
 5) we acknowledge that everyone WILL get a working new unit
 6) if anyone is really feeling the hit hard, I'll ship my unit out to help them out. No strings attached. I pay both ways.

 Can we drop it now and get back to how cool this unit is?


----------



## driftingbunnies

from what i heard the unit gets kind of hot?


----------



## Zanth

Mine gets warm, luke warm, not hot. I have read others say their own gets hot and I've read that the heat dissipation via the chassis is not only safe but normal. The chassis acts like a big heat sink.


----------



## driftingbunnies

lol i just thought you said it was cool  jk. sorry that was just trying to lighten the mood here.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_from what i heard the unit gets kind of hot?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine gets warm, luke warm, not hot. I have read others say their own gets hot and I've read that the heat dissipation via the chassis is not only safe but normal. The chassis acts like a big heat sink._

 

A DAC/Amp/Preamp and space heater all in one. Neat!


----------



## LaidBack

I may have missed it in the middle of all of today's discussion, so my apologies if this is redundant info....the consignment page is showing that several Compass shipped today: http://www.audio-gd.com/consignment.htm

 My bag-related replacement gear is listed in the 4/26 shipment, hopefully the others waiting for replacement gear are included as well...


----------



## braindrift

for those who bought an upgraded power cable, do you plug it straight into a wall outlet or an expensive surge protector. (I didn't order the upgraded power cable originally but i felt bad for audio-gd (bagger) and the slightly better performance, it was like two birds w/ one stone.) But I hope i don't have to drop 200 on a surge protector. let me know, thanks.


----------



## Zanth

I'm using one at work and all of our systems are on a controlled grid and then we have to have surge protects too, so yes, I am using the cord with pricey stuff, but I'm in a lab. If I were at home, I would also have it plugged into a surge protector because I'm paranoid about the longevity of my gear, not because I want better sound (though if better sound is a result, the great!).


----------



## braindrift

recommendations? (i don't want the surge protector to be the bottleneck, could you me a price range for this goal) btw i am excited that my compass is finally shipping, and i can't wait to enjoy it.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You still don't get it unfortunately. My problem was with Sandchak attacking and invalidating what these guys said. Had he not started the "be happy you got a free bag of junk nonsense", we wouldn't be here._

 

Don't twist my words because it suites your cause Les, Never even once in my posts have I attacked any of the baggers and invalidating what they say.

 On the contrary, you were the one who started the attack business as usual by calling me a factory rep - so what did you expect?

 All I have said is that, Yes it is disappointing for baggers for receiving a damaged Compass for no fault of theirs and I hope they get their new Compass in perfect condition soon, Yes I did say that in this disappointment baggers could look at the brighter side of things as they would have a damaged Compass that could be used as spares in the future if needed, at least I would have looked at things that way - My intention was to make them feel better and not instigate or aggravate.

 As far as the other part of the post which was about dealing with Audio GD on directly on shipping issues, I think has been clarified too.

 Anyway.. whatever.. nothing new..


----------



## edselfordfong

Wow, what an ugly discussion today, surprised to see it flare up again. At least my two compasses are on the consignment page, though I haven't heard from Cherry yet.

 I respect ecclesand's position, but I just didn't want anyone keeping score to assume that all baggers feel the same way. For my own part, two weeks just doesn't seem like that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. Maybe there are are people who ordered after me and got theirs earlier, but man, I have other things in life to worry about. So much more serious crap that life serves up. Kingwa communicated with me early and often, came up with a plan to resolve it, and executed it. Totally good enough for me. 

 OK, hope I didn't just poke the nest.


----------



## sarathcpt

x2 !


----------



## Currawong

I think it's time for the discussion of the "bagged" Compasses to come to an end. I don't want to have to request Zanth that he start deleting posts.


----------



## op2003

I don't know, whether it's a good idea, but i'd like to post another perspective to this discussion: 

 We all want the best possible gear and components for the lowest price available worldwide (biggest bang for the buck). I think that is the reason, why we buy from Audio-gd. We also expect Kingwa to provide the best service and the best communication available (remember: we're still talking about a $258 amp). I know only a handful of companies, which do 1-day-replacements, all of them are probably 1000x bigger than Audio-gd. You have to keep in mind, that all the features you are requesting actually cost money, which you're not willing to spend (otherwise you could have bought a similar amp from a respectable european or american company for about three times the price).

 So this is my opinion and i can only speak for myself: Before i ordered the compass from Audio-gd i was aware, that there could be some troubles, because i'm ordering from a small company, which i don't really know and which is located about 7000km away from me. So i put this risk into my calculation and still ordered a compass, hoping everything will be good.

 I think Kingwa handles all this stuff VERY well, when you keep in mind how much you paid him for a VERY good product.


----------



## koruki

Just e-mailed them regarding the Sun and Moon OPA, got a reply from Cherry within 10 mins with the price ( OPA-moon price is USD25. OPA-sun price is USD30. ) AND that they will be shipping my one out tmr! WOOT! Very satisfied with their service and response times!


----------



## Zhirc

Sorry for ignoring those earlier conversations. Just wanted to say something positive for a while.

 YESSSS! Got Compass earlier (lol) than I expected. It's now sitting on the table, waiting for drying.

 I ordered and paid Compass 12th -- 13th March, waiting it to be shipped at the end of March. Then heard it's going to be shipped during early April. Then saw my Compass to be shipped mid-April, 12th day. Then saw Compass to be caught by the customs who hold it for over week, requesting decent receipt instead of Chinese. Then saw it to be gone to the postal service in Finland during Friday... and today saw that it's going to be in my house. And now it IS here. Then wondering if it's in working condition. Whoah. No damage on the outside at least.

 I can't even imagine how the baggers must have felt, especially those who's unit didn't work at all. Must have been... no, don't really know how bad feeling I would have got too in that case.

 --
 It seems that the customs didn't touch it after all, as it seemed that original tapes where still hanging on the box and it looked so in the inside as well. I'll have to pay about 40 - 60 € for them though, which is certainly a lot better than paying over 100€ extra...
 --

 So far some impressions:

 + the box and things used in shipping were very good - everything was well packed and thus well received
 + build quality is excellent indeed - looks and feels very neat
 + got the sexy pink optical cable
 + it is BIG and macho
 + love the feeling of the volume control, switches and buttons
 + the lovely smell of new electronics (especially RZ05 and power supply)... like running a new PC for first time

 - SUN had slightly dented connectors, guess it should work after all
 - Neutrick locking jack might be weird for noobs - it really EATS and LOCKS the connector
 - some blob of glue goo in the bottom of unit - nothing harmful though
 - can't wait to test it

 Quickly checked the connections and like Drosera said maany pages ago, it seems that the coax looks to best one in terms of looks and durability, optical coming then and lastly the swinging USB.

 I'll add some pics later... too bad that with old Canon you cannot get the best shots these days...[loading the pics to the PC and net]

The Box
Box opened
Taking stuff out, I
Taking stuff out, II
All the contents cleared
Inside I
Inside II
Blob of glue on the bottom
Back
Front
Dented connectors of SUN

 Edit: Tested with DVD-player and it seems to work very well. Tried quickly Lustmord - The Place Where the Black Stars Hang (with Soft-2, using coax and Sennheiser HD 595) - boy, never before has dark ambient sounded really so dark. Clear improvement in the bass and the overall soundscape. I could finally feel to walk and be part of the voyage through the abyss, instead of watching it from the other side.

 One bad thing though. I can't seem to get sound from soundcard (crappy Audigy 2) via coax or optical. Guess I'll have to stick to the USB then...


----------



## sandchak

Glad to see you got your Compass finally after all the delays..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I asked Kingwa, what that glue blob was for, and he said it was put intentionally so that the nuts would not go loose during shipment, which could damage the parts and board, and even it doesn't there are chances that a buyer might switch on the Compass without having the knowledge that one of the nuts have gone loose or come off, in which case it might short circuit the board and damage the Compass.

 So I guess that blob is going to be a regular feature from here on on all Compass.

 Anyway, dont forget to share with us your impressions !..


----------



## direcow

I was just wondering... would any of the people who got the bagged compasses be willing to send me a back plate, since you have a spare? I'll pay for shipping, of course.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for ignoring those earlier conversations. Just wanted to say something positive for a while.

 YESSSS! Got Compass earlier (lol) than I expected. It's now sitting on the table, waiting for drying.

 <<<SNIP>>>..._

 

An easy way to straighten the pins on the SUN is with a Table knife. It straightens the whole pin at once with no chance of placing another bend in the pin.

 .


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braindrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_for those who bought an upgraded power cable, do you plug it straight into a wall outlet or an expensive surge protector. (I didn't order the upgraded power cable originally but i felt bad for audio-gd (bagger) and the slightly better performance, it was like two birds w/ one stone.) But I hope i don't have to drop 200 on a surge protector. let me know, thanks._

 

I just use a plain old surge protector up to 3000 joules. That's it, nothing special. Doesn't store energy or condition it or anything. 

 One thing you have to remember, the PSU in the Compass is designed to ensure that the DAC/Amp have plenty of clean power already. That's why so many audiophiles claim a good PSU is important for their audio equipment. That's what the PSU does, I wouldn't sweat it. I just use a surge protector well to proctect my elecontrics. That's it.


----------



## oldschool

Got mine!

 Not a scratch on it, but the selector knob is loose in its socket, will try to fix this somehow.

 Now figuring how to run through optical..


----------



## iszatso

Guess, I am a bit confused in reading all the posts regarding the shipping damage on the compasses. When I receive a box from the shipper, the shipper does not leave my door step unless I have physically opened the box and checked the contents. If anything is not up to snuff, I refuse the shipment, which is my right and it is returned as damaged. Then work it out with the supplier as to the replacement. Did anybody open the box before the shipper left and refuse as a damaged shipment? Yeah no free back-up parts unit, but costs may have been kept down which would translate into a low price for a high quality unit.

 Having ran my own business and know how hard it is to stop it from becoming a hobby, am totally sympathetic to the producer.

 I remember a time when no on in america wanted to buy anything that was labeled "made in japan," then it changed to "made in china", now we have come full circle to having some chinese, japanese products very desired.

 Although off topic, my father always lambasts illegal immigrants, but when he built his house, they used cheap labor and he got a well built house for a lot less had union workers and american workers built the house. (maybe it is not so off topic.)

 When all the hullabalo dies down, I will order a compass and wait patiently while reading all about what i'm getting. From thought to fruition, propelled by a thread on a board to have something produced is just so cool and thanks to all those who contributed to the design and making this come to fruition. (wow, that was rambling)


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iszatso* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guess, I am a bit confused in reading all the posts regarding the shipping damage on the compasses. When I receive a box from the shipper, the shipper does not leave my door step unless I have physically opened the box and checked the contents. If anything is not up to snuff, I refuse the shipment, which is my right and it is returned as damaged. Then work it out with the supplier as to the replacement. Did anybody open the box before the shipper left and refuse as a damaged shipment? Yeah no free back-up parts unit, but costs may have been kept down which would translate into a low price for a high quality unit.

 Having ran my own business and know how hard it is to stop it from becoming a hobby, am totally sympathetic to the producer.

 I remember a time when no on in america wanted to buy anything that was labeled "made in japan," then it changed to "made in china", now we have come full circle to having some chinese, japanese products very desired.

 Although off topic, my father always lambasts illegal immigrants, but when he built his house, they used cheap labor and he got a well built house for a lot less had union workers and american workers built the house. (maybe it is not so off topic.)

 When all the hullabalo dies down, I will order a compass and wait patiently while reading all about what i'm getting. From thought to fruition, propelled by a thread on a board to have something produced is just so cool and thanks to all those who contributed to the design and making this come to fruition. (wow, that was rambling)_

 

Remember the price of the Compass is PROMOTIONAL. It will not stay $258 for long, only about a month. Kingwa stated it will be over in May. And yeah, for what I've seen of the Compass compared to other competitiors in the quality parts used, it will be around $500 probably. Whether some people get angry when I do this I don't care. The Compass parts used in quality far exceeds that of even some European amps like the Heed CanAmp or the Gilmore Lite. So don't wait long!


----------



## oldschool

Here's 2 pix. 2nd one shows the loose selector knob. Sorry for the crappy quality, light is scarce.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's 2 pix. 2nd one shows the loose selector knob. Sorry for the crappy quality, light is scarce._

 

Well it seems you finally got your way with the Black Neutrik jacks.. looks good though !


----------



## sarathcpt

Got the tracking no. for my replacement Compass. Interesting thing is the shipment weight now is only 1.1 lbs. For my previous bagged Compass it was 6.6 lbs. I said I wouldn't need the power cable again..don't know how it can be so different though. Doesn't the unit itself weigh more than that ?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's 2 pix. 2nd one shows the loose selector knob. Sorry for the crappy quality, light is scarce._

 

So that would be a loose switch, not a loose knob right? Little more serious issue.

 .


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got the tracking no. for my replacement Compass. Interesting thing is the shipment weight now is only 1.1 lbs. For my previous bagged Compass it was 6.6 lbs. I said I wouldn't need the power cable again..don't know how it can be so different though. Doesn't the unit itself weigh more than that ?_

 

Mine says the same weight. I'm not going to worry about it until I have to. I'm hoping it was some deal they worked out with DHL.


----------



## oldschool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So that would be a loose switch, not a loose knob right? Little more serious issue.

 ._

 

Switch, yes. Wrote to Kingwa about it. I don't think it's a big deal, probably a loose washer or something, should be easy to fix once I figure out how to take the switch out of the socket.

 By the way, is turning the volume up and down supposed to make noise in the earphones?


----------



## mbd2884

Looks to me you just push it in...


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 By the way, is turning the volume up and down supposed to make noise in the earphones?_

 

no


----------



## DiscHead

Here are my choices to set-up the Compass.

 Apple Mac Powerbook

 Dual Boot PC (XP-Pro or Vista Home Premium) with Creative X-FI Sound Card (I think the model is called Extreme Gamer - it has optical out but it is in the form of a mini jack).

 What would yield the highest SQ? 

 Optical out through X-FI and Creative Drivers in Vista. 

 Optical out through X-FI and Creative Drivers in XP. 

 USB out through ASIO drivers in Vista.

 USB out through ASIO drivers in XP.

 USB out through Apple Mac Powerbook.

 Are there any choices that I'm over looking?

 Thanks


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Switch, yes. Wrote to Kingwa about it. I don't think it's a big deal, probably a loose washer or something, should be easy to fix once I figure out how to take the switch out of the socket.

 By the way, is turning the volume up and down supposed to make noise in the earphones?_

 

Hi,
 I believe you'll have to remove the knob to see if all the mounting screws are present and tight. It appears to secure from the front of the box with screws. 

 The noise is a noisy Volume POT.If you have Cramolyn R5, you can use it, or DeOxit which is the Cheap watered down version. I had this issue on my Little Dot MK V. My Compass has the same problem/noise. Mine has "wiping noise" from 10:00-2:00.

 You unplug AC and remove the vol knob. Squirt some Deoxit on the Vol shaft, Turn the shaft from min to max about 10 times. The Vol shaft has to be vertical for this and remain vertical the whole time. Gravity has to work here. Leave for an hour. Come back and squirt some more on the Vol shaft, run vol control from min to max about 10 times. Repeat for 24 hours... I'm not kidding, 24 hours you Compass has to be upright and you have to work the POT. You can clean and relisten as often as you like, but this is what works for me.

 Clean the oily mess from the front of your Gear. Listen. Still makes that "wiping noise", repeat till issue resolved. No resolution, replace Alps Blue Velvet Pot.

 I know everyone is gonna get pissed here when I say this, but these things need to be reported in Public. Otherwise they will continue.

 Thanx Old School for the constructive Feedback.

 .


----------



## fotomill

Doesn't the PowerBook have an optical output? Recent MacBook Pros all have optical output as you may know.


----------



## Zhirc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 The noise is a *noisy Volume POT*.If you have Cramolyn R5, you can use it, or DeOxit which is the Cheap watered down version. I had this issue on my Little Dot MK V. My Compass has the same problem/noise. Mine has *"wiping noise"* from 10:00-2:00._

 

Does this actually have an impact to the overall sound quality when listening to the music or is it only a minor, cosmetic problem causing just frustration when changing the volume?

 Not that I could even use Compass with those volume levels, the clock eight is as far as I can usually go. Good thing that Kingwa choosed to lower the gain again. I think that 6db will be pretty good setting for efficient and low impedance cans.


----------



## oldschool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, is turning the volume up and down supposed to make noise in the earphones?_

 

It's funny because the first few times it didn't make any noise. If I don't resolve it any other way I will try cleaning it with a spray.


----------



## mbd2884

I hear no noise at all when turning the volume pot. And I mean zero. Did you replace the HDAM with something else? Be sure to make sure the HDAM is placed in correctly.


----------



## Oggranak

I can't connect to the Audio-gd site, is it down?


----------



## Zanth

Seems to be.


----------



## arcer63

I think my order got pushed back from Sunday so that all of the replacement ones could go out. I was initially told that it would be sent the 26th but it wasn't on the consignment page before it went down. I am completely fine with this and I hope that everyone's Compass arrives in perfect working order. I cant wait to hear it.

 Andre.

 P.S.- Yeah, the site is down, Ive been letting a page load for about two hours now in another tab. Its making me nervous though.


----------



## oldschool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hear no noise at all when turning the volume pot. And I mean zero. Did you replace the HDAM with something else? Be sure to make sure the HDAM is placed in correctly._

 

The HDAM is fine, it works and music plays nicely. Noise when turning the volume knob is not heard when music is playing, only when silent.


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DiscHead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here are my choices to set-up the Compass.

 Apple Mac Powerbook

 Dual Boot PC (XP-Pro or Vista Home Premium) with Creative X-FI Sound Card (I think the model is called Extreme Gamer - it has optical out but it is in the form of a mini jack).

 What would yield the highest SQ? 

 Optical out through X-FI and Creative Drivers in Vista. 

 Optical out through X-FI and Creative Drivers in XP. 

 USB out through ASIO drivers in Vista.

 USB out through ASIO drivers in XP.

 USB out through Apple Mac Powerbook.

 Are there any choices that I'm over looking?

 Thanks_

 

Dischead,
 I don't think anyone will be able to tell you which will sound the best for you. You are just going to have to knuckledown and try them all for yourself.

 But realisticly I would just get one option working to your satisfaction until after the burn in period, that will gove you time to get aquainted with the sound signature of the Compass and the OPA that you have installed. You can then experiment with the other source options to see if you can tell any difference. 

 I am using USB out through ASIO in XP myself and it sounds great, but I don't have any other options at the moment to compare it with. I did use ASIO4ALL for awhile but have switched to the ASIO USB drivers that MBD recommended on earlier postings. I find that this was a significant improvement, so there are options within your options to think about.

 You also need to think about which Media player you want to go with, which will probably be different depending on Mac or PC and XP vs Vista.

 Good luck and enjoy your Compass!

 Mark


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arcer63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_P.S.- Yeah, the site is down, Ive been letting a page load for about two hours now in another tab. Its making me nervous though._

 

Dont be nervous ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 it happens sometimes with all websites and I have seen it mostly happening with Chinese websites.. it maybe just the way the system operates.


----------



## rx7mark

Sandchak,
 I like your new Avatar!!

 Mark


----------



## oldschool

OK, my bad. The HDAM wasn't making good contact and that's why I was getting noise when moving the volume. 
 Currawong might add this to the FAQ.

 Also, with the HDAM in place, it sounds miles better


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rx7mark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sandchak,
 I like your new Avatar!!

 Mark_

 

Thanks ! the old one was *bug*ging me too much !..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, my bad. The HDAM wasn't making good contact and that's why I was getting noise when moving the volume. 
 Currawong might add this to the FAQ.

 Also, with the HDAM in place, it sounds miles better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the feedback, Oldschool !!..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does this actually have an impact to the overall sound quality when listening to the music or is it only a minor, cosmetic problem causing just frustration when changing the volume?

 Not that I could even use Compass with those volume levels, the clock eight is as far as I can usually go. Good thing that Kingwa choosed to lower the gain again. I think that 6db will be pretty good setting for efficient and low impedance cans._

 

It can be a minor irritation or deteriorate to noise on top of Msic. So it can be minor or major. 

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, my bad. The HDAM wasn't making good contact and that's why I was getting noise when moving the volume. 
 Currawong might add this to the FAQ.

 Also, with the HDAM in place, it sounds miles better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Interesting.

 .


----------



## doping panda

Has anyone tried the Compass DAC with Stax, prefarably the normal bias Lambdas? I have a trade pending for a pair of Lambdas and I'm wondering how if the Compass DAC will match up well to them.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I'm using it with the SRS-4040II system - SRM006tII energiser and the SR-404 Signature earspeakers. It's a pro-bias system, and not the same as what you're looking at, but it works exceedingly well with the Compass.

 Just don't go trying to plug the Lambda's into the Compass... it won't work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using it with the SRS-4040II system - SRM006tII energiser and the SR-404 Signature earspeakers. It's a pro-bias system, and not the same as what you're looking at, but it works exceedingly well with the Compass.

 Just don't go trying to plug the Lambda's into the Compass... it won't work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Thanks for your impressions especially since the 404 Signatures are supposed to be more resolving than the normal bias Lambdas. I'm just hoping the normal bias Lambda is something like a Super K500.

 Also, it's not as if I was planning to plug the Lambdas into the Compass or anything...


----------



## AudioPhewl

I wasn't really thinking that you were, but it did cross my mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Most people find any Stax gear to sound dry, without the usual bass-hump. I imagine the Lambda's will have a very similar feel to the sound - chances are you'll enjoy them hugely with the Compass.

 I couldn't go back to normal headphones now. They may sound dry, or cold, but after just a day or two, they are so brilliantly resolving, intimate, detailed, and fun. Fun in a different way to electromagnets, but better - and worse - in their own way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## doping panda

I don't find a dry sound with lack of a bass hump to be a problem since my favorite headphone is rather dry and is notorious for a lack of bass impact. I'm fairly certain I'll enjoy the Lambda since the impressions of it are similar to K500/K501 impressions, but with the benefits of electrostatic drivers.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, my bad. The HDAM wasn't making good contact and that's why I was getting noise when moving the volume. 
 Currawong might add this to the FAQ.

 Also, with the HDAM in place, it sounds miles better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Glad to hear that! When I read your post at first I was thinking, oh noes, so many problems showing up with the new Compasses.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, my bad. The HDAM wasn't making good contact and that's why I was getting noise when moving the volume. 
 Currawong might add this to the FAQ.

 Also, with the HDAM in place, it sounds miles better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You know I was going to mention that but figured the Vol pot might actually be bad this time around. Good for you for catching that. Then again I should have picked up on that since a bad pot would have been swapped by an Audio-gd employee during testing and burn in.

 This is a good reason to open your units up before powering them up folks. Make sure the HDAM is seated fully and not loose (really loose). Just a slight outward bend of the pins of the module (.1mm) should be enough to give the pins a good friction fit.

 Best to check these things before the first power up in case the HDAM somehow managed to work it's way out of the socket (even with the foam tape holding it in place, although that possibility is extremely remote).

 I agree this should be added to Curra's excellent FAQ !

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wasn't really thinking that you were, but it did cross my mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Most people find any Stax gear to sound dry, without the usual bass-hump. I imagine the Lambda's will have a very similar feel to the sound - chances are you'll enjoy them hugely with the Compass.

 I couldn't go back to normal headphones now. They may sound dry, or cold, but after just a day or two, they are so brilliantly resolving, intimate, detailed, and fun. Fun in a different way to electromagnets, but better - and worse - in their own way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

I had some Lambdas over 20 years ago, they were like most Electrostats a little thin in the Bass. The Bass they had was excellent, just not enough. How would you describe yours now. I haven't heard any recent Stax.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know I was going to mention that but figured the Vol pot might actually be bad this time around. Good for you for catching that. Then again I should have picked up on that since a bad pot would have been swapped by an Audio-gd employee during testing and burn in.

 This is a good reason to open your units up before powering them up folks. Make sure the HDAM is seated fully and not loose (really loose). Just a slight outward bend of the pins of the module (.1mm) should be enough to give the pins a good friction fit.

 Best to check these things before the first power up in case the HDAM somehow managed to work it's way out of the socket (even with the foam tape holding it in place, although that possibility is extremely remote).

 I agree this should be added to Curra's excellent FAQ !

 Peete._

 

They didn't catch my Noisy POT and it's a classic dirty POT noise. And my HDAM is not loose, and it makes the noise on both HDAMs I've listened to so far. I just haven't had time to soak it yet.

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I dunno Sandchak I kinda liked the insect running around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dunno Sandchak I kinda liked the insect running around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Me too


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They didn't catch my Noisy POT and it's a classic dirty POT noise. And my HDAM is not loose, and it makes the noise on both HDAMs I've listened to so far. I just haven't had time to soak it yet.

 ._

 

It figures you got the lousy pot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## driftingbunnies

I'm pretty worried about audio-gd's site being down...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It figures you got the lousy pot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete._

 

I've got another one laying around. If it gets bad enough or I get some time, I've got a Near Priceless can of Cramolyn R5 that will clear it up perfectly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . My LD was quiet till I went to sell it. Started looking it over for Nicks to disclose and make sure it sounded OK, and found it's POT noisy too. Same Alps Blue Velvet, same noise in the same portion of the sweep almost. 48 hours later it was dead quiet. The Compass is not worrying me in particular other than escaping being caught at the factory.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm pretty worried about audio-gd's site being down..._

 

 I just read on a Chinese Blog site that the A-GD factory is under siege from the ZERO factory workers...

 .


----------



## arcer63

I talked emailed them today. Cherry got back to me saying that everything was fine but their host was down. Furthermore, she said that my Compass was being sent out tomorrow. I'm ecstatic. 

 Does anyone have any impressions on how it will sound with er-4s ety's? I noticed that all of the original 18 and most of the others posting on this thread have full size cans. I'm really looking forward to seeing how much the bass response will change with my first amp. How different will it sound when compared to the headphone out on the front of a home theater receiver(a cheap rca one from 7-8 years back)? I just reorganized my desk and everything to make room for the compass so that it has a dedicated dvd player for playing cds. I am using a magnavox dp100mw8b. It looks like it will fit perfectly on top of the compass. (after it starts running cool)

 Also how much will the quality of the dvd player factor into the sound quality of the Compass? I just grabbed a cheap one with a coaxial digital out that my family happened to have. Will this be measurably worse than a new one that might cost 100 dollars or more? Thanks to everyone for their excellent guidance through the very complex task of breaking into head-fi audio. Also, thanks to everyone that played a major role in the development of the unit. I didn't think I'd be able to break into _relatively high end_ audio at such a low price point. 

 Now its time to save for some good speakers and the panther (?)(i cant check because the site is down right now) amp. This is all so exciting. Does anyone think that it would be better to spend this money on a set of cans?

 Andre


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It should absolutely blow away the cheap old RCA HT amp by quite a fair margin.

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arcer63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also how much will the quality of the dvd player factor into the sound quality of the Compass? I just grabbed a cheap one with a coaxial digital out that my family happened to have. Will this be measurably worse than a new one that might cost 100 dollars or more?_

 

I did play around with quite a few budget dvd players and noticed there's certainly variation in the quality of digital out that you're able to get from them when trying to play redbook cd's. Most manage to do a very decent job though. I think you stand the best chance with players made by the inventors of the compact disc (i.e. Sony and Philips).


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dunno Sandchak I kinda liked the insect running around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah there was something about it I liked myself (one because I personally like insects and bugs !!), but what I didn't like was that it was grabbing my attention too much - anyway, I tried looking for it, but it seems the smart bug managed to crawl out of my PC too !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Talking about volume pots, I had an imprssion from my experience that if the pot is faulty, then it will make that scratchy noise not only when you're turning the volume knob while playing music, but also when there is no music being played, which is not something that oldschool experienced, but then most probably my impression can be wrong because I am quite a noob when it comes to such things. Although I must say Audio GD has done a good thing by increasing the lead time to 2 weeks ( reason testing and burn in) - I don't doubt they take a lot of care while assembling gears, its just that when I see Compass internally, it has a lot of stuffs inside and maybe requires some time in the QC or Burn in to make sure everything is working fine. I mean no matter how much it costs, its more than an entry level audiophile gear (imo), and not some mass produced stuff that can be churned out at a fast pace..

 Well off topic - I just realized my CD7 ( my first experience with a CD transport) will be coming in next month and I feel excited !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS - I just your new avtar Peete - Its cool.. really cool !!..


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should absolutely blow away the cheap old RCA HT amp by quite a fair margin.

 Peete._

 

Awesome, or should I say ....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....SUPER?(lame, i know, lol)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did play around with quite a few budget dvd players and noticed there's certainly variation in the quality of digital out that you're able to get from them when trying to play redbook cd's. Most manage to do a very decent job though. I think you stand the best chance with players made by the inventors of the compact disc (i.e. Sony and Philips)._

 

Dammit, Ill compare it against others in the house too. I guess Ill base my decision on what I find out and how much money I have available at the time. Do you think that Playstation3 would be the highest quality player i have in my house, or will the computer and video components cause disturbances in the SQ? We also have a Sony 5-cd changer with optical out that i will compare it with. I think I will wait until the compass is burnt in to make the final decision though.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arcer63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dammit, Ill compare it against others in the house too. I guess Ill base my decision on what I find out and how much money I have available at the time. Do you think that Playstation3 would be the highest quality player i have in my house, or will the computer and video components cause disturbances in the SQ? We also have a Sony 5-cd changer with optical out that i will compare it with. I think I will wait until the compass is burnt in to make the final decision though._

 

Don't worry too much, just play around with options that are available to you. You can get a decent digital output from a lot of different devices. No idea about the Playstation, but my cheap Sony cd player's optical out was only bested by the USB output of my computer when I installed the USB-Audio.de driver.

 Actually, the biggest problem I encountered with affordable dvd players is that they can have problems with simply spinning a redbook cd properly (without getting stuck or suffering from disc stability problems). But it could very well be that I was just unlucky in that department with the players I tried.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Sandchak and Dro,

 The CD7 should give you a real taste of what is possible when using a dedicated high quality transport (not that a comp can't do a great job). Congrats on that pick up. 

 Dro some DVD players actually make things worse in terms of getting the info off the disc without having to engage heavy error correction on the fly. The more the error correction is engaged the more the overall SQ will suffer from the digital outs. A good tweak for any lightweight DVDP is to get a pile of rope caulk and heavily damp the chassis and the transport assembly where possible. Mass loading those light players helps a lot. Also if you could take the chassis cover off and observe the disc handling during playback it'll give you a very good idea if the clamping mechanism is doing a fair job, if it is, then go ahead with the rope caulking. Use it liberally anywhere there is open space on the bottom panel and even the underside of the top panel.

 Isolate the player with quality footers if you can or a platform of some sort (DIY, whatever you have). You should notice an improvement in focus, detail, imaging, and bass weight.

 Sandchak : Thanks for the Avatar compliment. It cracks me up every time I look at it ...it also exemplifies my reaction to the most recent dust up in the thread.

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dro some DVD players actually make things worse in terms of getting the info off the disc without having to engage heavy error correction on the fly. The more the error correction is engaged the more the overall SQ will suffer from the digital outs. A good tweak for any lightweight DVDP is to get a pile of rope caulk and heavily damp the chassis and the transport assembly where possible. Mass loading those light players helps a lot. Also if you could take the chassis cover off and observe the disc handling during playback it'll give you a very good idea if the clamping mechanism is doing a fair job, if it is, then go ahead with the rope caulking. Use it liberally anywhere there is open space on the bottom panel and even the underside of the top panel._

 

Useful stuff! I did experiment in the past with mass loading of cheaper cd players and, depending on the player, it does work. Is there any material in particular you would advise for dampening and vibration absorption? Any good sources for affordable Sorbothane for example?


----------



## arcer63

Im staring at the CD player and thinking, "You look easy to take apart." Its all cheap plastic. If that weighting solution works Ill be so happy, I didnt really want to give up any more desk space. Its just about the simplest player I have ever seen, so I don't think there is that much internal interference.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Useful stuff! I did experiment in the past with mass loading of cheaper cd players and, depending on the player, it does work. Is there any material in particular you would advise for dampening and vibration absorption? Any good sources for affordable Sorbothane for example?_

 


 Dro, this is what I made, I think its quite cheap and fun to make one, plus you can always use this when and if you change CD players or if you decide to go vinyl !

The TNT SandBlaster 1.0

 EDIT - ooops I think I sent you the picture of the stand already - anyway, Like Peete said these kind of things make more difference with very light CD players and personally I found it improve the sound-stage when I was using it with my cheap technics cd player, but I doubt it will make much difference with CD7 as it seems already damped very well and has a pretty stable chassis (9KG!!).


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dro, this is what I made, I think its quite cheap and fun to make one, plus you can always use this when and if you change CD players or if you decide to go vinyl !

The TNT SandBlaster 1.0_

 

You're right, that should be fun. What did you use for the feet? Are those the kind of spikes that you would also put under speakers?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're right, that should be fun. What did you use for the feet? Are those the kind of spikes that you would also put under speakers?_

 

Yeah that is correct these spikes can be also used under speakers/stands, its pretty strong and made of brass - so it does a good job.


----------



## Zhirc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It can be a minor irritation or deteriorate to noise on top of Msic. So it can be minor or major. 

 ._

 

Hmm. Probably something minor as my ears can't hear anything hideous in the sound. It's not the HDAM in my case either, checked them all and the same noise occurred when changing volume in the range 10 - 14. SUN sounded to have a bit wider noise scale (from 8 to 15) than Moon or Earth though...

 EDIT: One interesting fact in my case - sometimes this volume control related noise is only on left or right channel when using USB. Coax or Optical always have it on both channels though. It also seems that the range is wider and noise more loud when using USB.

 Anyway, I have to say that I'm enjoying very much of the Compass. I guess that it had even bigger impact than I thought - didn't know that the sound of inexpensive cans like Sennheiser HD 595 can be this good. And I have only used Compass for about 10h (combined burn-in & listening). Currently using with Soft-2 and Earth via USB.

 Here's few of my thought's on Last.fm, nothing special though as I don't have words and skills for that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


Album impressions: Monolake - Momentum; Gridlock - Trace; Ed Rush & Optical - Wormhole


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm. Probably something minor as my ears can't hear anything hideous in the sound. It's not the HDAM in my case either, checked them all and the same noise occurred when changing volume in the range 10 - 14. SUN sounded to have a bit wider noise scale (from 8 to 15) than Moon or Earth though...

 EDIT: One interesting fact in my case - sometimes this volume control related noise is only on left or right channel when using USB. Coax or Optical always have it on both channels though. It also seems that the range is wider and noise more loud when using USB.

 Anyway, I have to say that I'm enjoying very much of the Compass. I guess that it had even bigger impact than I thought - didn't know that the sound of inexpensive cans like Sennheiser HD 595 can be this good. And I have only used Compass for about 10h (combined burn-in & listening). Currently using with Soft-2 and Earth via USB.

 Here's few of my thought's on Last.fm, nothing special though as I don't have words and skills for that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



Album impressions: Monolake - Momentum; Gridlock - Trace; Ed Rush & Optical - Wormhole_

 

Interesting, that's exactly where ine is noisy. There may be more noisy pots out there. You only hear it if the Music is not playing. I just puase the Playback and move the Vol Pot and it's there. 

 Would be interesting to now how prevalent this issue is. Also, my POT seems reverse Log in action. It Ramps quicker in the first half of the vol range and changes little in the second half.

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm. Probably something minor as my ears can't hear anything hideous in the sound. It's not the HDAM in my case either, checked them all and the same noise occurred when changing volume in the range 10 - 14. SUN sounded to have a bit wider noise scale (from 8 to 15) than Moon or Earth though...

 EDIT: One interesting fact in my case - sometimes this volume control related noise is only on left or right channel when using USB. Coax or Optical always have it on both channels though. It also seems that the range is wider and noise more loud when using USB._

 

I asked Kingwa what the problem might be, and according to him the problem ( which isn't really a problem) is ( if I understand what he wrote correctly) that :

 The Input of HP amp in Compass uses DC couple and Not Caps caps couple, this might cause some voltage to pass through the volume pots while you turn the knob.

 This noise is very faint and will go away once you stop turning the knob.

 The advantages of having DC couple input over Caps couple is :

 Since there are no coupling caps, the sound quality will be at its best.

 The disadvantage being, when you are turning the volume control there is some faint noise, but this doesn't effect the SQ because it stops when you stop turning the volume knob, and of course users wont be turning the volume knob constantly while hearing music.

 The way to resolve if you wish is to add coupling caps on the HP amp input, but this will result in sound degradation.

 Well this is what he thinks..


----------



## anoobis

Please move if this is the wrong forum.

 I'm primarily interested in which HDAM is likely to provide the best synergy in the Compass with the HD600.

 I've read a lot about the supposed signatures of the HDAM but I'm not really gleaning the intent behind each one. It seems to me:

 Earth was intended to be as neutral as possible
 Moon was intended to be smoother and darker
 Sun was intended to be bright with a V-shaped EQ.

 I take it the Compass settings (neutral, soft etc.) have a smaller effect.

 I'm of the opinion that the HD600 is pretty transparent, a tad on the 'Moon-like' side. I'm after more or less neutral, happy to go slightly to the laid back side.

 To me, V-shaped sounds like a bad idea, artificial detail and hollow. I can't see it being a good match, cancelling any darkness/smoothness of HD600 and being dead neutral.

 Please say if you think I've got this completely wrong.

 The more likely candidates are Earth and Moon. Earth sounds as though it should be the best match. However, does Moon + HD600 improve the signature or does the double effect ruin it?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked Kingwa what the problem might be, and according to him the problem ( which isn't really a problem) is ( if I understand what he wrote correctly) that :

 The Input of HP amp in Compass uses DC couple and Not Caps caps couple, this might cause some voltage to pass through the volume pots while you turn the knob.

 This noise is very faint and will go away once you stop turning the knob.

 The advantages of having DC couple input over Caps couple is :

 Since there are no coupling caps, the sound quality will be at its best.

 The disadvantage being, when you are turning the volume control there is some faint noise, but this doesn't effect the SQ because it stops when you stop turning the volume knob, and of course users wont be turning the volume knob constantly while hearing music.

 The way to resolve if you wish is to add coupling caps on the HP amp input, but this will result in sound degradation.

 Well this is what he thinks.._

 

Interesting, guess hosing it down with Cramolyn won't fix that.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anoobis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please move if this is the wrong forum.

 I'm primarily interested in which HDAM is likely to provide the best synergy in the Compass with the HD600.

 I've read a lot about the supposed signatures of the HDAM but I'm not really gleaning the intent behind each one. It seems to me:

 Earth was intended to be as neutral as possible
 Moon was intended to be smoother and darker
 Sun was intended to be bright with a V-shaped EQ.

 I take it the Compass settings (neutral, soft etc.) have a smaller effect.

 I'm of the opinion that the HD600 is pretty transparent, a tad on the 'Moon-like' side. I'm after more or less neutral, happy to go slightly to the laid back side.

 To me, V-shaped sounds like a bad idea, artificial detail and hollow. I can't see it being a good match, cancelling any darkness/smoothness of HD600 and being dead neutral.

 Please say if you think I've got this completely wrong.

 The more likely candidates are Earth and Moon. Earth sounds as though it should be the best match. However, does Moon + HD600 improve the signature or does the double effect ruin it?_

 

You posted this in the HDAM thread also...

 .


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anoobis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.
 The more likely candidates are Earth and Moon. Earth sounds as though it should be the best match. However, does Moon + HD600 improve the signature or does the double effect ruin it?_

 

Like you said yourself - the Earth seems like the best match for you. But since they don't cost much I think you should go for both. Buying one at a later state would be much more expensive with the separate freight cost.


----------



## Baird GoW

If any of you are selling parts id be interested in buying some HDAM's just PM me.
 Edit *WORKING HDAM's* I'm looking to buy a Earth and Sun mostly but I may decide to try the moon If someone offers a good price.
 Ill buy Broken HDAM's if they are not destroyed but for only *really *cheap prices because i have no idea if i can fix it.


----------



## Omega17TheTrue

I have receive mine compass today, that was pretty fast ! Everything works and looks perfectly, very impressive quality, especially for the price !

 Its sound good, its a improvement over my 340a but its no a big difference but you hear easily the difference's (more separation, more natural sounding, much less sibilance etc...). 

 I'm really enjoying it, and the best is yet to come.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had some Lambdas over 20 years ago, they were like most Electrostats a little thin in the Bass. The Bass they had was excellent, just not enough. How would you describe yours now. I haven't heard any recent Stax.

 ._

 

I'll bet they sound very similar to what you heard 2 decades ago. They're not everyone's bag, and I can understand why. But they feel very accurate and honest, which is what most audiophiles are after. When I first got them, I wasn't convinced - they're a heap of money, and my old - familiar - Senns sounded 70% as good. 2 Days and I was convinced... that I was sending it back, as I had it on a 30 day home trial. A week after delivery, and daily use, I knew I was going to send them back. I put my Senns on, and couldn't stand them. Not at all - I was a changed man, and the cans that had been lovely to me for many years were, frankly, totally unenjoyable and utterly intolerable.

 They'd not appeal to your neighbour or cousin, who likes their car stereo with the bass and treble whacked up, feeding their 50,000 watt MOSFET amplifer in the boot(16W RMS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). Purely because they're so used to a manipulated and bloated sound. Slightly more treble and a heap more bass sounds normal to them - and, sadly more bass and more treble is always going to be better.

 Get a good acoustic recording going, and it can sound scarily like the real thing. The fumbling on the guitar frets, the sound of the stick hitting the drum... it can be extremely lifelike. Same goes for vocals - there's something beautiful about the way a woman breathes in before she starts to make her chosen noise.

 Dave and Donna down the road, with their "Disco-diva Megamix", and Wayne and Julie with their "Bangin' 90's Warehouse Rave" are going to miss the exaggerated bass they're so fond of. They'll totally not understand what it is that each of us on here seek for our musical pleasure.

 But for a splendid soundstage, lovely comfort, honest reproduction and the ability to forget you've got something strapped onto your head, they're superb. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll bet they sound very similar to what you heard 2 decades ago. They're not everyone's bag, and I can understand why. But they feel very accurate and honest, which is what most audiophiles are after. When I first got them, I wasn't convinced - they're a heap of money, and my old - familiar - Senns sounded 70% as good. 2 Days and I was convinced... that I was sending it back, as I had it on a 30 day home trial. A week after delivery, and daily use, I knew I was going to send them back. I put my Senns on, and couldn't stand them. Not at all - I was a changed man, and the cans that had been lovely to me for many years were, frankly, totally unenjoyable and utterly intolerable.

 They'd not appeal to your neighbour or cousin, who likes their car stereo with the bass and treble whacked up, feeding their 50,000 watt MOSFET amplifer in the boot(16W RMS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). Purely because they're so used to a manipulated and bloated sound. Slightly more treble and a heap more bass sounds normal to them - and, sadly more bass and more treble is always going to be better.

 Get a good acoustic recording going, and it can sound scarily like the real thing. The fumbling on the guitar frets, the sound of the stick hitting the drum... it can be extremely lifelike. Same goes for vocals - there's something beautiful about the way a woman breathes in before she starts to make her chosen noise.

 Dave and Donna down the road, with their "Disco-diva Megamix", and Wayne and Julie with their "Bangin' 90's Warehouse Rave" are going to miss the exaggerated bass they're so fond of. They'll totally not understand what it is that each of us on here seek for our musical pleasure.

 But for a splendid soundstage, lovely comfort, honest reproduction and the ability to forget you've got something strapped onto your head, they're superb. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 


 Hmmm, sounds just like the set I had. I didn't buy the amp for them and had to RUN off my spkr amp to use them, which was a PITA to me in the long run, so I divested myself of them. Wish i still had them, and the amp to go with them of course.

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sandchak,

 I should have specified more clearly...mass loading (internally) is for light cheap transports...now the CD7 hardly needs mass loading when it weighs 35 lbs but there are some who still think the use of external loading (see Bright Star Audio products for instance) is beneficial for all source devices although I'm a little dubious about that claim.

 I would say any transport under 10 lbs should be mass loaded (to bring it up to 16-20 lbs range, provided the chassis is able to handle that additional loading, depends on the unit's construction quality).

 The torque from the high speed DVD drive in combination with a light chassis is bad news for sound and picture quality (if you have a decent TV). Just like a good line conditioner can scrub the AC line of injected digital hash by cleansing that hash the picture quality improves...it's all interrelated.

 Anyway...cheap hardware store rope caulk and ceramic tiles (3x6, 8x8 inch, whatever the cm measurement is) can be a really cheap way of mass loading a number of devices for not a lot of money. I use the tiles inside and out (using the rope caulk , warmed up and kneaded into long double runs to affix these tiles inside or outside the chassis. It's sort a cheap version of the Bright Star ideas. It really did wonders for my lightweight Ah Njoe Tjoeb a couple of years back. I did the same with the HK HD720. Where tiles won't fit just add runs of rope caulk. I leave the runs hal inch apart and always run the same direction so it doesn't look to hap hazard. I'm not sure how effect different patterns would be but the tile addition where space permits is like a quasi constrained layer device which is the basis for most vibration reduction (large or small scale). The best devices I know off are the platforms used to steady electron microscopes but those are pretty bloody expensive (sysmic sinks I think they are called).

 Anyway sorry for the OT stuff (well it kinda relates if you use a CDP/DVDP to feed your Compass a digital signal ).

 If anyone is interested in some pics of what I did (to get an idea) just PM me with your regular email address and I'll send you some shots of the HK job.

*Dro* the sorbothane stuff is kinda pricey and not any better than rope caulk I've found ( I used a 25 US section of it on the Ah Njoe Tjoeb chassis lid underside, it made no difference until I added all the tiles and caulking).

 For 25US you could buy enough rope caulk and tiles to do 3 transports and still have stuff left over. Pick a nice tile while your at it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 These are just suggestions folks....I really do try all kinds of unorthodox stuff at times...some really crazy ideas (that fail spectacularly or actually work) and some not so crazy based on solid evidence (and given a DIY affordable twist ). Anyway I pass on what works or seems to work to others and hope they don't think I'm off my rocker 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The locals think I am already when it comes to audio and music...what can you do ?

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sandchak,

 I should have specified more clearly...mass loading (internally) is for light cheap transports...now the CD7 hardly needs mass loading when it weighs 35 lbs but there are some who still think the use of external loading (see Bright Star Audio products for instance) is beneficial for all source devices although I'm a little dubious about that claim.

 Anyway sorry for the OT stuff (well it kinda relates if you use a CDP/DVDP to feed your Compass a digital signal ).

 If anyone is interested in some pics of what I did (to get an idea) just PM me with your regular email address and I'll send you some shots of the HK job.

 Peete._

 

Peete,

 Thank you for your insights on external and internal mass loading of Cd players, yes it does relate to me very much because I still prefer using CD players through Compass (I am not saying it sounds better than PC or anything for that matter, its just my preference).

 I have tried some stuffs in the past to mass mass load (internally) both my Technics and NAD CD player, but never to the extent you are talking about to get the full benefits of internal mass loading, So yes YGPM !!..


----------



## Drosera

To have some impressions of what it would look like, I found this here.
 Whatever the benefits, it certainly isn't pretty.


----------



## csroc

Hmm this sure keeps marching along, too bad I'm too busy to keep up at the moment. I wonder when I'll get a new one.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To have some impressions of what it would look like, I found this here.
 Whatever the benefits, it certainly isn't pretty. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Seeing those pictures remind me of Christmas !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm this sure keeps marching along, too bad I'm too busy to keep up at the moment. I wonder when I'll get a new one._

 

Good to see you !..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 have you sent back the old version or are you planning to have both ?


----------



## darkhalo

You guys have inspired me to order a Compass. Thanks for all the useful info!


----------



## anoobis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You posted this in the HDAM thread also...
 ._

 

Similar questions, yes, but not the same. The post in this thread is more specific and relates to the HDAM when used in the Compass.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bjorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like you said yourself - the Earth seems like the best match for you. But since they don't cost much I think you should go for both. Buying one at a later state would be much more expensive with the separate freight cost._

 

I take the point but I was hoping for insight into the signatures. If no one has heard the combination (unlikely, surely?), then fair enough. However, I was hoping for more than, 'Why don't you just buy them?' It's probably what I'll end up doing (!) but with the right information I may be able to make a decision up front.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To have some impressions of what it would look like, I found this here.
 Whatever the benefits, it certainly isn't pretty. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I just got through looking at that mess...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Clearly you don't want to put this stuff anywhere near the pcbs or chips etc (heat build up is a bad idea for anything solid state)...the one exception to that being the clock can. He went way way overboard with the rope caulk.

 The aluminum plate on the bottom is a great idea as is the home made platform and roller bearing footers.

 I'll post a quick pic of the HK and the brass rollers I use for the Vanguard CDM12 Pro...looks way better than this guys mess (on the inside and outside)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The HK has a dedicated power supply for the Tentlabs TX02 board you see on mounted on the ceramic tile base. I used a set of soft rubber standoffs to further isolate the clock board from the chassis while the PSREG board for it is also mounted on the ceramic tile that is affixed under the transports mechanism proper. Every single diode,electrolytic cap and some resistors were swapped for Nichicon PW/Muse/HE/or VK and Elna Cerafine. Some Panasonic FM used in the lPSU section but for the most part this board used 95% Nichicon caps. Some PIO bypass caps are installed on the discrete output coupling caps (when used as a CDP instead of the digital out this section benefits greatly from the PIO bypass caps in this spot). Of course all the large electrolytic caps are also bypassed with PIO's including the PSREG board caps.

 The diodes are all Fairchild UF4007, what else..oh yeah CMC jacks and silver plated copper OFC hookup wire. The biggest improvement came with the Tentlabs clock and separate PSU then the main PSU rebuild and finally the additional damping refined everything. I use 3 brass cones for feet and set the whole thing on a Bright Star IsoRock 4 platform (constrained layer device, look it up Bright Star Audio). The results are way better than stock, much much better resolution, stage depth, detailing etc..sounds far less digital that's for sure. The next possible step is to go with a Digital out reclocking board (Tentlabs TX03) but I don't think I'll bother.

 The reason why I bothered going to all this trouble with this particular cdp is because it use a discrete analog output stage and the DAC chip is a pretty good Burr Brown unit the PCM1710U. I guess a good tweak would be to swap all the ceramic caps for silver mica........among other possible changes...maybe a better transformer (toroidal type, 30VA or so) Maybe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	











 Brass Mi-Rollers 






 Peete.

 PS : I need to take pics of the Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000 which has far more extensive damping added to it along with big and small tiles to the top chassis cover. It's quite heavy compared to the HK CDP although the addition of the parts in the pic did add around 4 lbs plus 1.5 lbs of the caulk and 2 tiles. The chassis lid underside has quite a bit of rope caulk as well (not shown in the pic)


----------



## Starguard

*Guys, I don't want to be rude here, but this is a thread for the COMPASS.

 Please. Make a new thread, PM, or go somewhere else with this CD stuff.*


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to see you !..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 have you sent back the old version or are you planning to have both ?_

 

I'll be keeping both but I'm not in a rush at the moment. Hopefully Kingwa will have the whole DHL mess behind him soon enough!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Guys, I don't want to be rude here, but this is a thread for the COMPASS.

 Please. Make a new thread, PM, or go somewhere else with this CD stuff.*_

 

[size=xx-small]Well all this in bold already sounds, if not rude then a warning !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think its fair enough because if one can talk about Foobar or different PC softwares, then I guess a couple of pages on CD players is no harm, especially when there are quite a few folks who prefer the CDP/DVDP hooked on to the Compass, its all in the chain - just like the headphones - IMHO.[/size]


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll be keeping both but I'm not in a rush at the moment. Hopefully Kingwa will have the whole DHL mess behind him soon enough!_

 

That would be good ! you can always look at both side by side and say that was a good job !..


----------



## Krackatus

Does anyone know how the Compass compares to something like the Benchmark DAC1?
 I know they are in completley different price ranges, but it would be very interesting to hear just how well the Compass competes with it.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Krackatus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know how the Compass compares to something like the Benchmark DAC1?
 I know they are in completley different price ranges, but it would be very interesting to hear just how well the Compass competes with it._

 

See here.


----------



## lowlevelowl

Looks like Pacific Valve is selling the Compass now.

Pacific Valve & Electric Company Pacific Audio gd Compass DAC

 Price is much higher, but ships from within the US and they support the unit if bought there.

 Wonder how many Compass were produced for Pacific Valve, that could be another reason for some of the delays some have had.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lowlevelowl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like Pacific Valve is selling the Compass now.

Pacific Valve & Electric Company Pacific Audio gd Compass DAC

 Price is much higher, but ships from within the US and they support the unit if bought there.

 Wonder how many Compass were produced for Pacific Valve, that could be another reason for some of the delays some have had._

 

I think this was Pacific Valve's last order. (From the Audio-gd shipping page.) 

  Quote:


 USA JoeCompass X3 C2C X2 
 

So that's just a drop in the ocean of Compasses.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anoobis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but with the right information I may be able to make a decision up front._

 

I disagree... the ONLY person who can decide this is you. You could get 3 entirely different responses about the same combination... I happen to like the Sun, even with my Grados - I don't call it fatiguing or overly bright, but I'm in the CAST minority on this. I also happen to like to switch it up to the Earth AND Moon sometimes... 

 IMO, the most important thing you can learn in this hobby is that the only impression that really matters is your own, and you mileage WILL vary - potentially very greatly.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lowlevelowl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like Pacific Valve is selling the Compass now.

Pacific Valve & Electric Company Pacific Audio gd Compass DAC

 Price is much higher, but ships from within the US and they support the unit if bought there.

 Wonder how many Compass were produced for Pacific Valve, that could be another reason for some of the delays some have had._

 

The price with shipping is only 40.00 more. You do get a 30 day money back return policy, and full product support . Shipping would be much cheaper if you ever had to return it for repairs.. For some this may be a better option. This would be the better option for me, if audio-gd customer service wasn't so good. I would still rather get it directly from audio-gd.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I disagree... the ONLY person who can decide this is you. You could get 3 entirely different responses about the same combination... I happen to like the Sun, even with my Grados - I don't call it fatiguing or overly bright, but I'm in the CAST minority on this. I also happen to like to switch it up to the Earth AND Moon sometimes... 

 IMO, the most important thing you can learn in this hobby is that the only impression that really matters is your own, and you mileage WILL vary - potentially very greatly._

 

He's right everybody has different opinions on how each of these sound. Some people think the moon is too smooth, and lacking in details. Others think the moon has just the right amound of details. Some think the souundstage of the earth is too narrow, while others think it plenty wide. That's why a lot of people purchase additional hdams.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I disagree... the ONLY person who can decide this is you. You could get 3 entirely different responses about the same combination... I happen to like the Sun, even with my Grados - I don't call it fatiguing or overly bright, but I'm in the CAST minority on this. I also happen to like to switch it up to the Earth AND Moon sometimes... 

 IMO, the most important thing you can learn in this hobby is that the only impression that really matters is your own, and you mileage WILL vary - potentially very greatly._

 

Wise advice!

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The price with shipping is only 40.00 more. You do get a 30 day money back return policy, and full product support . Shipping would be much cheaper if you ever had to return it for repairs.. For some this may be a better option. This would be the better option for me, if audio-gd customer service wasn't so good. I would still rather get it directly from audio-gd._

 

The Price is $332 + Shipping Charges.

 .


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Price is $332 + Shipping Charges.

 ._

 

For shipping to Colorado, the $40 extra is about right (with shipping) considering the extra 4% for Paypal that Audio-gd charges.


----------



## WC Annihilus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Price is $332 + Shipping Charges.

 ._

 

He knows. Shipping comes out to around $30, making it around $360. Compass shipped to US from Audio-GD + Paypal fees comes out to around $320, thus around $40 more


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WC Annihilus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He knows. Shipping comes out to around $30, making it around $360. Compass shipped to US from Audio-GD + Paypal fees comes out to around $320, thus around $40 more_

 

I see, I guess they nail ya a little for shipping fees then.

 .


----------



## anoobis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I disagree... the ONLY person who can decide this is you. You could get 3 entirely different responses about the same combination... I happen to like the Sun, even with my Grados - I don't call it fatiguing or overly bright, but I'm in the CAST minority on this. I also happen to like to switch it up to the Earth AND Moon sometimes... 

 IMO, the most important thing you can learn in this hobby is that the only impression that really matters is your own, and you mileage WILL vary - potentially very greatly._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wise advice!

 ._

 

Indeed but you can take prevailing opinions, weight opinions by those you think share ideal sound signatures, have more experience, better gear etc. 

 After all, extrapolating your view, there's no point anyone posting for subjective opinions on anything.


----------



## moodyrn

Not really. It's far more expensive to ship from China than it is to ship domestically here in the states.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see, I guess they nail ya a little for shipping fees then._


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anoobis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed but you can take prevailing opinions, weight opinions by those you think share ideal sound signatures, have more experience, better gear etc. 

 After all, extrapolating your view, there's no point anyone posting for subjective opinions on anything._

 

Correct, and how many impressions have been written ALREADY about these HDAMs that are findable with a couple of keystrokes and a modicum of ambition?

 .


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, there's a ton of information on this forum about opinions and impressions. You don't have to go any further than page one where Currawong has posted a faq, and links to impressions, opionions, reviews, and comparisons involving each hdam.


----------



## sarathcpt

FINALLY!!!....I just got the replacement Compass! That was fast, left China on 27th ..so just two days! So no longer just a 'bagger'  !

 This arrived in perfect condition (no scratches & selector switch is fine) in a box along with an Earth HDAM. I do hope my Moon & Sun that came with the bagged one works without any problem. Otherwise, its more hassles.


----------



## sandchak

Probably means that you are the first "convert" !!.. Congratulations..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hope your Moon and Sun works too !..


----------



## ecclesand

Just got mine too with the Earth HDAM. I tested my original Earth HDAM and the extra Moon HDAM and both work. The fit and finish on this unit is very nice! Of course, I'll have to listen to it more to get an idea of the sound quality but my initial impressions are it's going to be very good.

 Let me be the first (OK, maybe the 10th or 20th) to say that Kingwa is truly a man of his word. When faced with a problem, he stepped up and delivered. Now that I have experienced the Compass and Audio-gd's great service first-hand I can say* Hat's Off to Kingwa*!


----------



## gilency

Mine shipped today. DHL tracking shows them now in Hong Kong


----------



## sarathcpt

Yes...great service from Audio-GD. Without doubt I will be happy to do business with them again.

 I am curious to know whether he received any compensation for the damaged units. Anyone know?


----------



## punk_guy182

I ordered mine on the 19th. Does anyone know when is the next shipping date?


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Probably means that you are the first "convert" !!.. Congratulations..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope your Moon and Sun works too !..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... Just tested, all working ! Initial impression within the first half an hour of listening that any newbie with untrained ears like mine would notice :
 i). soundstage - I can happily say now I understand the meaning of this and feel the improved soundstage. Seems like music is being played from a space around you, rather than right next to your ears. Some instruments appearing to be played farther from you compared to others, nice separation.
 ii). detail - the improvement in this is again quite easy to notice.

 I was initially underwhelmed when I started off in this hobby few months before with the D2000 and just a Bithead from the Macbook pro. It was good but nothing exciting. Now with D2000+Compass...I get an idea of whats in store for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !


----------



## Krackatus

I'm thinking about getting one of these babies, but i'm a little unsure as to what voltage i need? 120v or 220v? Anyone help a newbie out?


----------



## doping panda

Where do you live? If you live in the States, you'll need 120V. Anyways, just email Kingwa and he'll tell you.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ... Just tested, all working ! Initial impression within the first half an hour of listening that any newbie with untrained ears like mine would notice :
 i). soundstage - I can happily say now I understand the meaning of this and feel the improved soundstage. Seems like music is being played from a space around you, rather than right next to your ears. Some instruments appearing to be played farther from you compared to others, nice separation.
 ii). detail - the improvement in this is again quite easy to notice.

 I was initially underwhelmed when I started off in this hobby few months before with the D2000 and just a Bithead from the Macbook pro. It was good but nothing exciting. Now with D2000+Compass...I get an idea of whats in store for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !_

 

Well I am a newbie myself when it comes to headphones, but I can surely say with all the different combinations of OPAMPS and Compass aging itself, you are in for a very exciting journey.. btw, D2000 + Compass + AR Rehman = one of my favorite musical experience.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .. To be more specific HD600, since I dont have a D2000..


  Quote:


 I'm thinking about getting one of these babies, but i'm a little unsure as to what voltage i need? 120v or 220v? Anyone help a newbie out? 
 

I am shock-ed !..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. where are you located??..

  Quote:


 I ordered mine on the 19th. Does anyone know when is the next shipping date? 
 

They usually ship on Mondays and Fridays, but lately I think they need 15 days to ship after the order is placed, don't know if that would be applicable in your case - its best to ask Ms Cherry @ Audio GD.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.. btw, D2000 + Compass + AR Rehman = one of my favorite musical experience.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .. _

 

Exactly what I am listening to right now


----------



## Krackatus

doping panda/sandchak - UK


----------



## doping panda

You'll need a 220V.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Krackatus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_doping panda/sandchak - UK_

 

Its 220 Volts..

 EDIT - beaten by doping panda !!..


----------



## Krackatus

Cheers lads.

 Just out of curiosity...
 why is it that i need a 220v, where as people in the states only need 120v?


----------



## iTetragrammaton

My Compass arrived a week ago - in mint condition. I've tested all inputs, and they work flawlessly, just waiting for new active desktop speakers to test its pre-amp capabilities. I must say this is a smashingly well manufactured product, and to me it sounds great out of the box. What remains now is to burn in the amp as such, burn in the Earth and the supplemental Moon and Sun I bought, burn in the four different settings, and then start exploring the endless permutations


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Krackatus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking about getting one of these babies, but i'm a little unsure as to what voltage i need? 120v or 220v? Anyone help a newbie out?_

 

The 440v have the best soundstage, they do produce a lot of heat though.

 Ohhh, and you can only use them on Nuclear Subs...

 .


----------



## Krackatus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 440v have the best soundstage, they do produce a lot of heat though.

 Ohhh, and you can only use them on Nuclear Subs...

 ._

 

Oh right, thanks for that. It dosn't mention it on Audio-gds website.
 Only on Nuclear subs you say? That could be problematic.
 I mean, i was planning on using it on a submarine obviously, but i'm not sure it has nuclear capabilities. I'll have to check the manual later.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Krackatus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh right, thanks for that. It dosn't mention it on Audio-gds website.
 Only on Nuclear subs you say? That could be problematic.
 I mean, i was planning on using it on a submarine obviously, but i'm not sure it has nuclear capabilities. I'll have to check the manual later._

 

What'd you expect, the guy's from Jupiter!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What'd you expect, the guy's from Jupiter!_

 






 .


----------



## Starguard

Well here's something unfortunate:

 I just got my confirmation that my order has shipped but on the DHL tracking number...

 The city/zip code is wrong and my name is spelled wrong. 

 FML


----------



## moodyrn

Well I received my compass today. Initial impressions are quiet good. The amp is a little better than I was expecting, although not as powerful as I was expecting. I can stand to turn the volume all the way on the high gain setting using my sextetts(well they are 600ohms). The dac is pretty much what I was expecting, but what did catch me by surprise was the preamp. The preamp section blew me away. This thing is able to drive my mingda tube amp like only my 1500.00 receiver could ever dream of. And sound great doing it. My mingda sounds better than it ever had. I really wasn't expecting anything like this to happen. Wow what a bonus. If I was grading everything on a word scale from average, good, very good, and great; I would have to say that the dac is good, the amp is very good, and the preamp is borderling great. Well I guess I'll go out on a limb and say it is great(to me of course). Of course I expect things to greatly improve with burn in. I have a moon with about 250-300 hours on it. So comparing it the a fresh earth is an unfair comparison, but I did anyway. And I like the neutrality of the earth. It does sound like it needs to settle in, and I do like the smoothness of the moon, but I think I might like the earth better after burn in. And I know the moon isn't completely burned in either. So after I'm finished with the earth, I'll finish the moon also. This is an unbelievable value for 320.00 shipped. I still like my mingda amp better than the compass amp, but it's not totally outclassed by it. If my mingda was a ferrari, the compass would be a corvette.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well here's something unfortunate:

 I just got my confirmation that my order has shipped but on the DHL tracking number...

 The city/zip code is wrong and my name is spelled wrong. 

 FML_

 

Same on Mine, they explained it though. My City was wrong but the zip was correct. What I was told is that the City is a DHL hub.

 I'm workin' on gettin' that YES up for ya.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I received my compass today. Initial impressions are quiet good. The amp is a little better than I was expecting, although not as powerful as I was expecting. I can stand to turn the volume all the way on the high gain setting using my sextetts(well they are 600ohms). The dac is pretty much what I was expecting, but what did catch me by surprise was the preamp. The preamp section blew me away. This thing is able to drive my mingda tube amp like only my 1500.00 receiver could ever dream of. And sound great doing it. My mingda sounds better than it ever had. I really wasn't expecting anything like this to happen. Wow what a bonus. If I was grading everything on a word scale from average, good, very good, and great; I would have to say that the dac is good, the amp is very good, and the preamp is borderling great. Well I guess I'll go out on a limb and say it is great(to me of course). Of course I expect things to greatly improve with burn in. I have a moon with about 250-300 hours on it. So comparing it the a fresh earth is an unfair comparison, but I did anyway. And I like the neutrality of the earth. It does sound like it needs to settle in, and I do like the smoothness of the moon, but I think I might like the earth better after burn in. And I know the moon isn't completely burned in either. So after I'm finished with the earth, I'll finish the moon also. This is an unbelievable value for 320.00 shipped. I still like my mingda amp better than the compass amp, but it's not totally outclassed by it. If my mingda was a ferrari, the compass would be a corvette._

 

Something very strange on mine also, the Gain is sometimes greatly different from day to day. It seems to be more stabilized at present with approc. 375 hours on it. I found the same thing you did from time to time, then other times, the gain was spot on.

 .


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I still like my mingda amp better than the compass amp, but it's not totally outclassed by it. If my mingda was a ferrari, the compass would be a corvette._

 

 Could you say which headphone you use? And wich MingDa?
 I appreciate your comments.

 Can someone please confirm that one can use its DAC and PreAmp at the same time? It is not clear (bad English) to me in FAQ.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Krackatus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cheers lads.

 Just out of curiosity...
 why is it that i need a 220v, where as people in the states only need 120v?_

 

Because you have 220V coming out of your power points in the UK (same as Aussies). People in the USA have 110V coming out of theirs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ The dac is pretty much what I was expecting, but what did catch me by surprise was the preamp. The preamp section blew me away. This thing is able to drive my mingda tube amp like only my 1500.00 receiver could ever dream of. And sound great doing it. My mingda sounds better than it ever had. I really wasn't expecting anything like this to happen. Wow what a bonus. If I was grading everything on a word scale from average, good, very good, and great; I would have to say that the dac is good, the amp is very good, and the preamp is borderling great._

 

Peete was pretty impressed with the Compass as a pre-amp as well. It's turned out as an unexpected surprise. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone please confirm that one can use its DAC and PreAmp at the same time? It is not clear (bad English) to me in FAQ. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks very much. 

 That's why I used pictures. But to answer your question, yes. When "Super" mode is on, everything still works, just separately. You could actually connect the DAC output sockets to the HP amp input sockets and it would work as normal.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you say which headphone you use? And wich MingDa?
 I appreciate your comments.

 Can someone please confirm that one can use its DAC and PreAmp at the same time? It is not clear (bad English) to me in FAQ. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have the mingda mc84co7. The headphones I have are: sennheiser hd580, akg240 sextett LP, and the beyer dt770/80, and yes you can use the preamp and the dac at the same time.


----------



## Starguard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same on Mine, they explained it though. My City was wrong but the zip was correct. What I was told is that the City is a DHL hub.

 I'm workin' on gettin' that YES up for ya.

 ._

 

Yup, they explained the same to me. I saw the wrong city and I was about to freak out... Man--after 2 weeks with my Denon 2000s I'm excited to see how they open up.

 And I'm pumped about this Yes inbound.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup, they explained the same to me. I saw the wrong city and I was about to freak out... Man--after 2 weeks with my Denon 2000s I'm excited to see how they open up.

 And I'm pumped about this Yes inbound._

 

I've got D5000s and they slam pretty good with the Compass.

 .


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got mine too with the Earth HDAM. I tested my original Earth HDAM and the extra Moon HDAM and both work. The fit and finish on this unit is very nice! Of course, I'll have to listen to it more to get an idea of the sound quality but my initial impressions are it's going to be very good.

 Let me be the first (OK, maybe the 10th or 20th) to say that Kingwa is truly a man of his word. When faced with a problem, he stepped up and delivered. Now that I have experienced the Compass and Audio-gd's great service first-hand I can say* Hat's Off to Kingwa*!_

 

I'm saying nothing. Though I'm glad you're now happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because you have 220V coming out of your power points in the UK (same as Aussies). People in the USA have 110V coming out of theirs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Officially, we're 230v+10%/-6%. Though little has changed since we went down from 240v+/-6%, so most places read ~240v. I've just checked mine, and am seeing 238/239v. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm saying nothing. Though I'm glad you're now happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

I was thinking the same thing....

 Peete.


----------



## Zanth




----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm saying nothing. Though I'm glad you're now happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

X2


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm saying nothing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

Ditto.


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks very much. 

 That's why I used pictures. But to answer your question, yes. When "Super" mode is on, everything still works, just separately. You could actually connect the DAC output sockets to the HP amp input sockets and it would work as normal._

 

 Sorry, I meant my English is bad (as you can see now).


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The dac is pretty much what I was expecting, but what did catch me by surprise was the preamp. The preamp section blew me away._

 

That's great to hear because I intend to use mine as a dac out/preamp to my tube amp and speaker kit. Headphone listening will be secondary. Will be trying out the Earth and the Moon HDAMs as well.

 I'm curious as to who else is using the Compass like this. Is your impression that the preamp out sounds better than the dac out?


----------



## RedSky0

Got mine today. So the difference at first anyway doesn't seem large at all, but I guess that's to be expected and I'll give it some more time before I make any conclusions. Biggest obvious difference is it's completely non-fatiguing, nothing sounds harsh any more.

 Running it through USB at the moment, but can't seem to get coaxial/optical to work. With USB, I connected it, it recognised the device through XP and I was able to get it work by selecting USB Audio DAC as the output type in Foobar. Do I have to do anything special for coaxial/optical? I've connected it to "SPDIF out" on my mobo, which I'm guessing is correct.

 Also I'm surprised by people saying they barely use the volume dial. Using high gain with the HD600s, I can max out the volume and still feel like I need more headway with quieter, older recordings. 

 EDIT - Actually wait no, now that I'm using ASIO what people say about 9 o'clock being the highest bearable is about right.


----------



## Zanth

If it is completely non-fatiguing or harsh sounding, that IS a big difference. That alone is worth the money in my mind. Getting rid of digital hash without giving up dynamics or detail is well worth the asking price. I'm really hoping the Ref 1 just blow me out of the water in this regard.


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same on Mine, they explained it though. My City was wrong but the zip was correct. What I was told is that the City is a DHL hub.

 I'm workin' on gettin' that YES up for ya.

 ._

 

Really? The same thing happened for mine, but I highly doubt that Franklin, IL (middle-Illinois) is a DHL hub but that there isnt one in the Chicago area, where I live. Did you get that answer from Cherry or DHL?

 Andre


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ditto._

 

In the end it is all about the product, the quality and your impressions. Not just for you, but for all those reading the threads here. Sooo...get going on burning that baby in and start posting more elaborate impressions!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arcer63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really? The same thing happened for mine, but I highly doubt that Franklin, IL (middle-Illinois) is a DHL hub but that there isnt one in the Chicago area, where I live. Did you get that answer from Cherry or DHL?

 Andre_

 

From Cherry, the name of the City in my case, didn't make sense to me either. The City listed on my DHL tracker was a small town on nobodies route for anything. Very strange. But if you were buying cheap Land that would be a place to go. So who knows.

 .


----------



## Chu

I live in Chicago, and Franklin, IL is the DHL hub yours will come through.

 I was a bagger, and got mine today, well backed. With the awesome pink optical cable!

 No real comments, other than this thing is a beast. The internals looks incredibly well done and the construction is rock solid. The packaging is slightly different now in that they're wrapped so you don't get the two "white stripes" on the top.

 Too bad the first thing it did was destroy my ~10 year old Sony MDR-V6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The "tip" of the TRS separated from the body when I pulled them out! Can't really blame this on the amp, but man those Nurek plugs have a heafty grip, even with the red lever in.

 No real impressions yet, I literally just got it set up and spent an hour listening to fora.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The amp is a little better than I was expecting, although not as powerful as I was expecting. I can stand to turn the volume all the way on the high gain setting using my sextetts(well they are 600ohms)._

 






 Either the line level of your digital input is very low, or your ears are actually made of titanium. I have never even 'visited' the upper half of the volume dial and that's even with Sextetts and having Media Monkey's output volume at 10% of maximum. (And it's hardly low level listening either.)

 Are you using USB input at the moment? And do you get the same volume if you attach it to the optical or coax out of a dvd or cd player? (Just curious.)


----------



## RedSky0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedSky0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Running it through USB at the moment, but can't seem to get coaxial/optical to work. With USB, I connected it, it recognised the device through XP and I was able to get it work by selecting USB Audio DAC as the output type in Foobar. Do I have to do anything special for coaxial/optical? I've connected it to "SPDIF out" on my mobo, which I'm guessing is correct._

 

Not trying to be pedantic or anything, but I just can't seem to figure out what the problem is. Do I need to install some kind of driver for it? It's probably something obvious and I'd really appreciate the advice


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedSky0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not trying to be pedantic or anything, but I just can't seem to figure out what the problem is. Do I need to install some kind of driver for it? It's probably something obvious and I'd really appreciate the advice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You need to figure out the routing most likely for the sound applet in the control panel. Most likely your default path is to the spkrs. It needs to be to SPDIF. Your software control of your hardware needs to be tweaked.

 When all else fails, read the instructions...

 .


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedSky0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not trying to be pedantic or anything, but I just can't seem to figure out what the problem is. Do I need to install some kind of driver for it? It's probably something obvious and I'd really appreciate the advice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was hoping someone with a little more knowledge of this stuff than I have would answer. [EDIT: Oh, someone did. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ]

 If it's the S/PDIF of your mobo, you might have to switch foobar to Directsound instead of USB output to get it to work. If that doesn't work, you could also try to switch the audio output of Windows from USB to the ordinary mobo output (Realtek, in my case) in the Control Panel.


----------



## RedSky0

It's official! I'm a moron!

 (forgot to install mobo drivers that were needed to enable SPDIF assuming that enabling the onboard audio in mobo bios would be enough)

 But thanks for the help anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Heh, kind of dismayed that after the whole debacle it sounds exactly the same as through USB to me anyway


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedSky0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's official! I'm a moron!_

 

But aren't we all...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad you got it working, I guess that's another one to add to the list of the standard troubleshoot options.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Hi Guys,

 I know this has all been discussed before, and I have looked at Currawongs FAQ but I just cant get my head around the DAC out/Pre amp out and the super button.

 Basically I have a NAD C325bee that I want to use as a power amp and the Compass as a pre amp. So I assume my best bet is to flick the pre amp switch at the back to on and connect the RCA from pre amp to the amplifier? What other options do I have - e.g. using the DAC out RCA's etc?

 At the moment I have it connected that way (pre amp out from Compass with pre amp switch to on), but when I separate the NAD amp via the jumpers - therefore using the NAD purely as a power amp for the speakers I do get a fair amount of humming through the speakers. If I dont separate the amp and just use the Aux in then I dont get any hum from the speakers.... however I think overall the quality of the music is noticeably less detailed etc (as you would expect I guess, the pre amp of the Compass should be better than the pre amp of the NAD?)

 I'm guessing that the humming could be caused by something like potential difference between the compass and my NAD amp? Is there any way to minimise/get rid of the humming or will I just have to live with it if I want to connect the Compass and amp in this way?


----------



## lahtis

Got mine today but got one question. How i can make it play music louder trough my active studio monitors? I get sound out of it when i connect speakers to DAC out via RCA cables and super mode on but it's so silent even i did turn volume max at windows settings. DAC is connected to PC trough USB alltough i still have my Juli@ connected to pc i can use it with speakers if can't get enough volume trough Compass.


----------



## Currawong

chum_2000_uk: Sounds like a grounding issue, if you're getting hum. Are your connections grounded? Can you set it up and remove other connections to see if something else connected isn't causing the hum, such as your computer?

 lahtis: Try connecting your active speakers to the Pre Amp output, and using the Compass in normal mode with the pre-amp switch on and see if that makes a difference. It's weird though that it should work fine using the analogue out from your sound card and not the Compass though. I get the feeling we're missing something, like the connections aren't set up correctly. Is your sound card still connected to the speakers at the same time the Compass is?


----------



## anoobis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Correct, and how many impressions have been written ALREADY about these HDAMs that are findable with a couple of keystrokes and a modicum of ambition?

 ._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, there's a ton of information on this forum about opinions and impressions. You don't have to go any further than page one where Currawong has posted a faq, and links to impressions, opionions, reviews, and comparisons involving each hdam._

 

FWIW, I had read through hundreds of posts, including those mentioned. I came to the conclusion that the most detailed comments were with dissimilar headphones and/or music and TBH, there aren't that many applicable full reviews. I therefore sought the opinion of people with similar setups.

 With so many posts, it is possible I missed something. There's no need to resort to insults and in fact contaminating the threads further than you think I already have.

 Makes me feel that it'd be a waste of time posting my impressions of any gear, on the basis that someone may have written it before.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_chum_2000_uk: Sounds like a grounding issue, if you're getting hum. Are your connections grounded? Can you set it up and remove other connections to see if something else connected isn't causing the hum, such as your computer?
_

 

Well all the mains cables should be properly grounded as far as I know. What other connections could be causing the grounding issue? I am using a shocking set of IC's right now (have ordered some good canare ones though) I am hoping thats where the issue lies


----------



## lahtis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lahtis: Try connecting your active speakers to the Pre Amp output, and using the Compass in normal mode with the pre-amp switch on and see if that makes a difference. It's weird though that it should work fine using the analogue out from your sound card and not the Compass though. I get the feeling we're missing something, like the connections aren't set up correctly. Is your sound card still connected to the speakers at the same time the Compass is?_

 

I did connect now that way and it makes small difference but it's still not loud as i would want when i turn volume max at Compass. No there is nothing connected to soundcard right now. Could it be i have 1/4" female stereo plug to rca adapters connected? Since speaker cables are balanced 1/4" jacks/xlr.





 There is picture of those adapetrs i use.


----------



## Currawong

What speakers do you have? And do you have a link to the adaptors, or a name for them? What you describe sounds completely wrong.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well all the mains cables should be properly grounded as far as I know. What other connections could be causing the grounding issue? I am using a shocking set of IC's right now (have ordered some good canare ones though) I am hoping thats where the issue lies_

 

That NAD amp of yours...does it have a 2 prong power cord ? I'm willing to bet it does...it sounds like a ground loop caused by the NAD amp. I have NAD monitor series stuff (preamp and amp from 20 years ago that did the same damn thing).

 The Compass actually has a ground loop interrupt circuit built into (on the IEC mains input, the diode/resistor network) it so it won't be the cause of the loop. The other possibility is poorly shielded RCA IC's between the 2 units as you have already pointed out. Half decent cables are a must not a luxury 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






*lahtis* Those connectors are stereo, you need mono (one for each channel) I think...although I could be wrong. Do you not have a way of using regular ICs from the preamp outs directly to your powered speakers ? A far better signal pathway SQ wise would be to eliminate unnecessary connections where possible. You don't use the Super button in this case as you want to use the DAC and the preamp to send a signal to your powered speakers....

 What are the speakers you are using ? Let me know what they are and I'll have a look at them to see if I can give you a alternate wiring setup. I'm not clear on how you have it setup at the moment but I suspect it's wrong.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Curra...we both reached the same conclusion (lahtis's wiring issues) within minutes of each other 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete


----------



## lahtis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What speakers do you have? And do you have a link to the adaptors, or a name for them? What you describe sounds completely wrong._

 

I have Behringer Truth 2030A monitors. Cant find this adapter on Planet Waves homepage so here is link at them for one shop: RCA adapter
 Model number is PW-P047R


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkhalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's great to hear because I intend to use mine as a dac out/preamp to my tube amp and speaker kit. Headphone listening will be secondary. Will be trying out the Earth and the Moon HDAMs as well.

 I'm curious as to who else is using the Compass like this. Is your impression that the preamp out sounds better than the dac out?_

 

No, I wouldn't say that. On most dacs with preamps I've tried, I lose a little something with the preamp out. Even with some stand alone preamps, there's a little loss. But not with this one. And not only that, it sounds very transparant. On a lot of components with a built in preamp, such as dacs and other headamps the preamp is an after thought.


----------



## lahtis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That NAD amp of yours...does it have a 2 prong power cord ? I'm willing to bet it does...it sounds like a ground loop caused by the NAD amp. I have NAD monitor series stuff (preamp and amp from 20 years ago that did the same damn thing).

 The Compass actually has a ground loop interrupt circuit built into (on the IEC mains input, the diode/resistor network) it so it won't be the cause of the loop. The other possibility is poorly shielded RCA IC's between the 2 units as you have already pointed out. Half decent cables are a must not a luxury 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






*lahtis* Those connectors are stereo, you need mono (one for each channel) I think...although I could be wrong. Do you not have a way of using regular ICs from the preamp outs directly to your powered speakers ? A far better signal pathway SQ wise would be to eliminate unnecessary connections where possible. You don't use the Super button in this case as you want to use the DAC and the preamp to send a signal to your powered speakers....

 What are the speakers you are using ? Let me know what they are and I'll have a look at them to see if I can give you a alternate wiring setup. I'm not clear on how you have it setup at the moment but I suspect it's wrong.

 Peete._

 

Thanks for the help Peete and Currawong seems it's really because of those adapters i did change RCA-1/4" cable on speakers and now i get enough sound out of it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Seems i need change RCA plugs at other end on those real speaker cables.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Either the line level of your digital input is very low, or your ears are actually made of titanium. I have never even 'visited' the upper half of the volume dial and that's even with Sextetts and having Media Monkey's output volume at 10% of maximum. (And it's hardly low level listening either.)

 Are you using USB input at the moment? And do you get the same volume if you attach it to the optical or coax out of a dvd or cd player? (Just curious.)_

 

I first tried usb on my wife's vista laptop. Then I tried it on my HTPC(also vista) using the optical out. Both had the same results. I read a couple of pages back that someone orginally had the same results I did. He even went as far to say that he could use even more with his hd600s. But then after trying asio, that changed. Now he doesn't see the need to go past 9:00. I have a motu 828 with native asio drivers on my pc upstairs, so I'll try it with that. I'll let know how that goes.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That NAD amp of yours...does it have a 2 prong power cord ? I'm willing to bet it does...it sounds like a ground loop caused by the NAD amp. I have NAD monitor series stuff (preamp and amp from 20 years ago that did the same damn thing).

 The Compass actually has a ground loop interrupt circuit built into (on the IEC mains input, the diode/resistor network) it so it won't be the cause of the loop. The other possibility is poorly shielded RCA IC's between the 2 units as you have already pointed out. Half decent cables are a must not a luxury 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

Thanks Peete and Curra for your responses!

 Peete, the NAD amp does not have a removeable power cord, but as you say it may well be the equivalent of a 2 prong cord. The amp is certainly where I think the issue is. Its very strange though that if I run the Compass into the Aux input (therefore using the pre and power amp sections within the NAD integrated) I get no hum. Its only when I use the Compass pre amp and NAD power amp that I get the hum. Any idea why this would be Peete?

 I am hoping it is just the IC, and I should receive the new one within a day or two so will let you know if this solves the problem. If it doesn't, what is the next step to try and eliminate the noise? Did you solve the problem with your NAD amp before Peete?

 Thanks for your help!


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I first tried usb on my wife's vista laptop. Then I tried it on my HTPC(also vista) using the optical out. Both had the same results. I read a couple of pages back that someone orginally had the same results I did. He even went as far to say that he could use even more with his hd600s. But then after trying asio, that changed. Now he doesn't see the need to go past 9:00. I have a motu 828 with native asio drivers on my pc upstairs, so I'll try it with that. I'll let know how that goes._

 

The volume is now increased. Over what it was with my previous setup. I have no need to go past 11:00 with my hd580s. Actually about 10:00 is plenty. 12:00 is good for my sextetts, and no need to ever go past 1:00. I wonder if 16 hours of burn in helped, because I now get the same results with my previous setups. The amp is still not as powerful as my mingda mc84c07, but it's very powerful. It'll drive any headphone with ease. On a side note, with my mingda on about 12:00, I can't go any farther than 9:00 on my sextetts using the preamp. I get great results with my mingda on about 8:30. This allows my to have full control of the volume knob on the compass. This setup now sounds very, very good. I'll probably change out my GE five star 12ax7 for some lower gain 5751s.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Maybe the IC's will help but the Compass uses a 3 prong mains cable while the NAD floats it ground (the missing ground lug on the captured power cord of the NAD amp).

 Try plugging your gear into the same power strip (if you haven't already) that may solve the problem, then again it might not.

 Hopefully the better IC's may solve the problem...what are you using now ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

moodyrn do you have the volume output on the computer (via SC drivers) at max or 50% ?

 What gain setting are you at ? 

 Peete.


----------



## moodyrn

They are maxed. Everything's fine now. It wasn't that I didn't get enough volume yesterday, I just had to turn the knob higher than what most people reported. This was straight out of the box however, but now, my senns never see anything past 11:00. And my 600 ohm sextetts are plenty loud at 12:00. My dt770/sounds fine at 9:00, and plenty loud at 10:00. The setting on all of my pcs are the same as yesterday. It is a little odd. I wouldn't have thought burning(well a little) would effect output, but apparently it did.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The volume is now increased. Over what it was with my previous setup. I have no need to go past 11:00 with my hd580s. Actually about 10:00 is plenty. 12:00 is good for my sextetts, and no need to ever go past 1:00. I wonder if 16 hours of burn in helped, because I now get the same results with my previous setups. The amp is still not as powerful as my mingda mc84c07, but it's very powerful. It'll drive any headphone with ease. On a side note, with my mingda on about 12:00, I can't go any farther than 9:00 on my sextetts using the preamp. I get great results with my mingda on about 8:30. This allows my to have full control of the volume knob on the compass. This setup now sounds very, very good. I'll probably change out my GE five star 12ax7 for some lower gain 5751s._

 

That's intriguing, I wonder if anyone else has noticed volume changes with burn-in. I think actual 'normal' listening volume with the Compass in low gain should be (or become?) somewhere around 10 to 11 o'clock with the Sextetts. (Just a guess, because my prototype has much higher gain.) So it would be very interesting if your Compass will 'grow louder' still with longer burn-in.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are maxed. Everything's fine now. It wasn't that I didn't get enough volume yesterday, I just had to turn the knob higher than what most people reported. This was straight out of the box however, but now, my senns never see anything past 11:00. And my 600 ohm sextetts are plenty loud at 12:00. My dt770/sounds fine at 9:00, and plenty loud at 10:00. The setting on all of my pcs are the same as yesterday. It is a little odd. I wouldn't have thought burning(well a little) would effect output, but apparently it did._

 

Mine has gone thru a few cycles like this. With low impedance canz, I was able to max the Volume a few times! Now for the last 5 days or so it seems stabilized.

 .


----------



## Dankerz

I remember cranking the dial with my dt-770 80 ohm a couple of times within the first two days. I never go above 11 or 12 on any recording now.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dankerz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remember cranking the dial with my dt-770 80 ohm a couple of times within the first two days. I never go above 11 or 12 on any recording now._

 

 Mine started strong, went real weak. Like I thought it was dying. Went strong and weak again. And now seems to have stabilized. Never seen any Gear do this before. I think it may have taken a few weeks to get all the Chinese electrons flushed out, I heard they are 180 degrees out of phase.







 .


----------



## Sganzerla

I (and some friends) noticed some diference in volume between Moon and Earth, and I think as harshness goes with burn in people tend to use a higher volume too.


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arcer63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really? The same thing happened for mine, but I highly doubt that Franklin, IL (middle-Illinois) is a DHL hub but that there isnt one in the Chicago area, where I live. Did you get that answer from Cherry or DHL?

 Andre_

 

That's Franklin Park, in an industrial park right next to O'hare airport.


----------



## RedSky0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are maxed. Everything's fine now. It wasn't that I didn't get enough volume yesterday, I just had to turn the knob higher than what most people reported. This was straight out of the box however, but now, my senns never see anything past 11:00. And my 600 ohm sextetts are plenty loud at 12:00. My dt770/sounds fine at 9:00, and plenty loud at 10:00. The setting on all of my pcs are the same as yesterday. It is a little odd. I wouldn't have thought burning(well a little) would effect output, but apparently it did._

 

Yeah I was almost certain it was the switch from the Windows Mixer to ASIO that changed it, but switching back now the volume doesn't suddenly drop. Seems way too big of a jump to be burn-in, although since it happened maybe an hour into use, it's possible. Although, if I remember correctly on the audio-dg site, all units are burned in prior to being shipped.

 Another thing that might to be relevant to some people which I didn't see anyone mention in this thread is that the DAC does positional audio for FPSs quite well. It's too much effort for me to A/B right now, but playing a few matches of CSS/CoD4, I can still position footsteps just as well. If anything, it's more clear as expected I guess for a higher quality DAC and amplifier. My comparison is only to EAX 2.0 though, as my Creative sound card for reference is pretty old.

 I'm starting to really enjoy the sound of it too. It's immediately apparent that it gives a much more up front sound compared to with using my modest portable amp with the HD600s. I can't say it consistently lets me hear detail I couldn't previously but there are definitely tracks where this is true, or alternatively sometimes I can actually identify the instrument being played as opposed to just hearing it as a distant back melody. I'm loving the lack of buzz in the signal for quiet jazz/classical tracks, surprisingly helpful. In fact those are the two genres that probably benefit the most, as opposed to metal/rock. The less anemic and more full bodied sound of a better amped HD600 really conveys a better sense of realism to wind and string instruments. Less so to synthesised instruments in metal/electronica. Faster paced metal does benefit from slightly tighter bass, probably not to the degree I expected, it doesn't turn the HD600s into the ER4Ps (and I shouldn't be expecting that of course). It's definitely much easier to follow in say complex death metal sections as well as in full orchestral arrangements that would previously sound muddled and meshed together but again I was probably anticipating a bigger improvement here. Soundstage oddly feels significantly improved in some songs, again particular classical and jazz, although much less so in metal but I guess that speaks more of the recording quality and the limitation of that. Bass is also a bit weak in punch for my liking, as usual adjusting the EQ in foobar even slightly causes clipping so I'm kind of stuck with what it is it seems, although it's hardly weak. Finally the way it sounds nicely rounded off and almost smoothed out is a huge boon, it makes it much nicer to listen to at louder volumes without coming off as abrasive.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Redsky0...only 100 hours of the 600 needed is done before shipping your unit (or anyone else's) out from Audio-gd.

 You still have a long way to go before the Compass is settled 100%.

 Please see Curra's FAQ for a post link that explains it a little more in depth.

 Peete.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arcer63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really? The same thing happened for mine, but I highly doubt that Franklin, IL (middle-Illinois) is a DHL hub but that there isnt one in the Chicago area, where I live. Did you get that answer from Cherry or DHL?

 Andre_

 

This is Franklin Park north of the City...


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tim3320070* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is Franklin Park north of the City..._

 


 That makes so much more sense, now I justwonder why they didnt fly it into O'hare. It went through Ohio. I take the train through there on my way home, it'd be awesome if I could pic it up. Except for the whole death by parents part.


----------



## ecclesand

I must say I am digging the Compass with the Moon HDAM and the neutral setting. I'm currently listening to metal (Nightwish, Edguy, Crematory, Diluvium, Edenbridge) on my Ultrasone Pro900s. The bass is well extended with EXCELLENT impact but not as layered as my previous setup. I'm hoping this will improve with more burn-in. The soundstage is very nice...both horizontally and vertically. I get the sensation of the music being all around me, however, I'm able to pick where each instrument is. Of course, this may be part of the S Logic on the Ultrasones which is all I listen to anymore.

 These are all initial impressions with only around 8 hours of listening time. I'm sure it will improve as the Compass stabilizes based on the feedback in this thread. But as others have stated already, the bang for the buck of this unit is exceptional....VERY EXCEPTIONAL.

 More impressions later. I'm finding it hard to get any work done while listening because I keep getting caught up in the music. Good Stuff!


----------



## driftingbunnies

Man i can't wait to get mine...Cherry said she's shipping mine on the 4th. That makes it almost 2 months after paying.


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arcer63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That makes so much more sense, now I justwonder why they didnt fly it into O'hare. It went through Ohio. I take the train through there on my way home, it'd be awesome if I could pic it up. Except for the whole death by parents part._

 

That airport in Ohio is like FedEx's airport (I forget where it is). It's a hub for overseas freight shipping, no passengers. Hundred's of overseas flights come in, and out, loaded with freight. The freignt is then sorted, per destination, loaded onto planes and flowned to its destination (which in your case is O'Hare). It runs like clockwork. There may be several flights a day to Chicagomon.


----------



## lowlevelowl

Received mine today, so I'm sure some others did as well. Came in a box, perfect cosmetic condition except for the "residue" on the top which wiped off easy with a damp paper towel.

 Configured mine with moon hdam and neutral after about 10 mins of the default earth/bright config. Enjoying the sound so far, but the difference between hdams is slight IMO. Maybe I'll notice a bigger difference once I get more accustomed to the sound.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chum_2000_uk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At the moment I have it connected that way (pre amp out from Compass with pre amp switch to on), but when I separate the NAD amp via the jumpers - therefore using the NAD purely as a power amp for the speakers I do get a fair amount of humming through the speakers. If I dont separate the amp and just use the Aux in then I dont get any hum from the speakers.... however I think overall the quality of the music is noticeably less detailed etc (as you would expect I guess, the pre amp of the Compass should be better than the pre amp of the NAD?)

 I'm guessing that the humming could be caused by something like potential difference between the compass and my NAD amp? Is there any way to minimise/get rid of the humming or will I just have to live with it if I want to connect the Compass and amp in this way?_

 

Morning, young man. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete likely has hit it on the head. For reasons beyond my comprehension, so many "mainstream" amplifiers run with just the live and neutral wires. I've not heard the hum through the speakers, but I had problems years ago when recording tapes - I'd have a background hum on them.

 On the back of many amplifiers is a screwpoint with an earth symbol. The answer is to run an extra wire from that, down to the earth prong on your plug. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you can't find an earth point on the amplifier, then find a case screw that makes contact with the metal base, and attach the wire to that.

 The earth wire doesn't need to be very big. You could rob it from an old mains cable, or likely even get away with using some old speaker cable, though mains cable would be better than the 9-strand rubbish speaker cables from a typical UK mini-system 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 If you haven't got any old cable lying around, give me a shout and I'll try and dig something out for you. Though you'd likely get a metre or two of flex cable from Wilkinsons or Wickes for a quid or less... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Starguard

Just got my Compass...

 Pictures can not prepare you for just how awesome this thing is. It's huge and it's heavy. 

 I couldn't get the Optical working (I blame Creative) so I just went for USB. At first I pretty underwhelmed... But then--holy ****. It just kind of hits you. There are things I'm hearing for the first time in songs that I've heard hundreds of times.

 But one thing:

*Should I be hearing a low buzzing from my headphones when I'm plugged in?*

 Edit: it's not audible during louder songs but during low volumes it's pretty noticeable. I made sure the OPA was plugged in properly and it seems fine.


----------



## lowlevelowl

So looks like I got a defective Compass. It runs for about 25 minutes and then the sound starts breaking up, almost like the sound of a record skipping. Left running, eventually the sound cuts out all together and all you hear are popping noises. I have reseated both HDAMs (moon and earth), looked all over the interior of the unit and haven't seen anything abnormal. It really is almost like it is overheating, if I let it cool off for about 5 minutes and turn it back on, it plays fine for another 25 minutes. 

 Now this could be shipping damage, but the unit is in pristine condition inside an out. Not even any cosmetic damage. Even the box made it from China to the US with no dented corners etc. Frankly I think it was a dud at the factory. If so, I question Audio-gd burning these in for 100 hours as this is something that would have come to their attention pretty fast.

 Given the cost to ship it back to China, I'm certainly not going to ship it back for repair or replacement. The 25 minutes prior to the "defect" sound really good though, so I'm sure a working unit is a good product. I'll email Cherry and see what they can do for me, but I'm not hopeful that anything can be done without me incurring more expense. 

 I think I'll stick to US manufacturers from now on just for the convenience factor. Live and learn...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lowlevelowl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So looks like I got a defective Compass. It runs for about 25 minutes and then the sound starts breaking up, almost like the sound of a record skipping. Left running, eventually the sound cuts out all together and all you hear are popping noises. I have reseated both HDAMs (moon and earth), looked all over the interior of the unit and haven't seen anything abnormal. It really is almost like it is overheating, if I let it cool off for about 5 minutes and turn it back on, it plays fine for another 25 minutes. 

 Now this could be shipping damage, but the unit is in pristine condition inside an out. Not even any cosmetic damage. Even the box made it from China to the US with no dented corners etc. Frankly I think it was a dud at the factory. If so, I question Audio-gd burning these in for 100 hours as this is something that would have come to their attention pretty fast.

 Given the cost to ship it back to China, I'm certainly not going to ship it back for repair or replacement. The 25 minutes prior to the "defect" sound really good though, so I'm sure a working unit is a good product. I'll email Cherry and see what they can do for me, but I'm not hopeful that anything can be done without me incurring more expense. 

 I think I'll stick to US manufacturers from now on just for the convenience factor. Live and learn..._

 

Can you hit the super button and see if it's just the DAC or the Headamp section.

 .


----------



## Starguard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you hit the super button and see if it's just the DAC or the Headamp section.

 ._

 

The sound continues when the super-button is hit. Also something I noticed: when the super button is pressed in, I can turn the volume all the way up and hear the music faintly. Don't know if that's bad or not.

 When I turn the knob to Coax/Opt I still hear the sound. 

 Short story to explain what it sounds like: when you unplug an electric guitar from an amp that is turned on (which you shouldn't do) and you touch the plug head to your hand it makes a almost buzzing noise. That's the noise I'm hearing (be it faint).


----------



## lowlevelowl

An update..

 It would appear that only the optical input is defective. I switched to USB and the issue hasn't returned. I don't have any devices that use coax so I can't test it. I'll continue to burn it in and see if the issue comes up again on USB. I'd prefer optical but I'll be satisfied with USB if it means I can at least use the device.


----------



## lowlevelowl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The sound continues when the super-button is hit. Also something I noticed: when the super button is pressed in, I can turn the volume all the way up and hear the music faintly. Don't know if that's bad or not.

 When I turn the knob to Coax/Opt I still hear the sound. 

 Short story to explain what it sounds like: when you unplug an electric guitar from an amp that is turned on (which you shouldn't do) and you touch the plug head to your hand it makes a almost buzzing noise. That's the noise I'm hearing (be it faint)._

 

I have no buzzing or humming at all from my unit. I just have the other issue I've written about...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The sound continues when the super-button is hit. Also something I noticed: when the super button is pressed in, I can turn the volume all the way up and hear the music faintly. Don't know if that's bad or not.

 When I turn the knob to Coax/Opt I still hear the sound. 

 Short story to explain what it sounds like: when you unplug an electric guitar from an amp that is turned on (which you shouldn't do) and you touch the plug head to your hand it makes a almost buzzing noise. That's the noise I'm hearing (be it faint)._

 

You actually quoted me, answering someone else. You need to see if you have bad ground to the wall, if there is a loop to your source, etc. Try another entry like Toslink, or USB. Toslink would be nice because it is optical and electrically isolated. Move to another plug. Turn off the AC, unplug the Fridge, etc. You have a lot of places to look. You could run an Ipod in via a cable with the Super button engaged to see if if comes thru the dac section. To hear the sound, just start a source and pause it. You should be able to here it clearly. Look for dimmer switches also. 

 Ohhh, and have FUN!

 .


----------



## Starguard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You actually quoted me, answering someone else. You need to see if you have bad ground to the wall, if there is a loop to your source, etc. Try another entry like Toslink, or USB. Toslink would be nice because it is optical and electrically isolated. Move to another plug. Turn off the AC, unplug the Fridge, etc. You have a lot of places to look. You could run an Ipod in via a cable with the Super button engaged to see if if comes thru the dac section. To hear the sound, just start a source and pause it. You should be able to here it clearly. Look for dimmer switches also. 

 Ohhh, and have FUN!

 ._

 


 Now this is crazy.

 Seems the problem has fixed itself. Seriously. I don't hear it anymore (I just noticed after a song stopped playing that it was gone) and everything is sounding good.

 Side note: The build quality of this thing is just awesome.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lowlevelowl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_An update..

 It would appear that only the optical input is defective. I switched to USB and the issue hasn't returned. I don't have any devices that use coax so I can't test it. I'll continue to burn it in and see if the issue comes up again on USB. I'd prefer optical but I'll be satisfied with USB if it means I can at least use the device._

 

That sux! I would find a COAX source to test it. Probably doesn't matter, but you should get another DAC board sent to you it sounds like. Then think about a convenient time to get someone to swap it out for you.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now this is crazy.

 Seems the problem has fixed itself. Seriously. I don't hear it anymore (I just noticed after a song stopped playing that it was gone) and everything is sounding good.

 Side note: The build quality of this thing is just awesome._

 

Some residual out of Phase Chinese Electrons!

 .


----------



## j2kei

all this stories about defective and etc is making me nervous.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lowlevelowl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_An update..

 It would appear that only the optical input is defective. I switched to USB and the issue hasn't returned. I don't have any devices that use coax so I can't test it. I'll continue to burn it in and see if the issue comes up again on USB. I'd prefer optical but I'll be satisfied with USB if it means I can at least use the device._

 

Do you have any spare optical cable? usually optical cables are very fragile and must have been damaged during shipment.

  Quote:


 The sound continues when the super-button is hit. Also something I noticed: when the super button is pressed in, I can turn the volume all the way up and hear the music faintly. Don't know if that's bad or not.

 When I turn the knob to Coax/Opt I still hear the sound. 
 

This is nothing abnormal or bad, this is due to high input impendence, this will not happen if you use a source into the line in of Compass and activate super.
 You can check that.

 The Audio GD website says:

  Quote:


 Why Compass has some noise while using "Super" mode when it is not being fed with signal to HP amp?:
 While using “Super” mode in Compass, if users don't connect any source feeding the HP amp input, and turn the volume to maximum, they will hear some noise from the headphone. This is normal, because when HP amp is turned to max volume, input impedance is 47K ohms, with such high input impedance it will very easily pick up FR and other disturbances, which will then go through the HP amp (gain 13/19db) and finally reach the headphones. But If connected to source gears, the source output impedance is usually at 10-470 ohms, in this case it is difficult to pick up any noise or disturbances, in this case it will have high S/N ratio.
 If we design the HP amp with low input impedance, and in effect, when it is not connected to source gears, the noise will be a bit lower, but we took into consideration: 1, high input impedance SQ is better than low input impedance. 2, Who will enjoy listening to the noise while it is not connected source gears?


----------



## sarathcpt

I connected the DAC out to my speakers and I can hear the music faintly when the Super button is NOT pressed, when I thought I shouldnt be hearing anything out of the DAC out. When I press the Super Button volume jumps up to normal levels. Something to do with the way the Super button switch is wired in the circuit ? Anyone knows?


----------



## Chu

After two days with this thing, and the heartbreaking bagging incident, I am seriously considering buying a second one if the price is going to jump soon.

 This thing is just amazing for $300. I don't have that much experience with gear as other head-fi'ers but I can't think of anything SS that would beat it for twice the price.

 I also discovered, to my chagrin, that a solo-z modded X-Fi, kernel streamed, is an incredibly poor source. It's astounding how much better ASIO is sounding.


----------



## moodyrn

This compass is really something special. It's not the best dac I ever own. And it's certainly not the best amp I ever own. There are combos out the that has better amps, like the corda opera(that's debatable). There are combos that have better dacs, like the benchmark(that's also debatable). I don't know of many combos, or any that I have heard, that do both so well. It kind of reminds me of my sextetts. They don't really blow me away at doing anything. They just sound good. And throw in an excellent preamp, wow. All of this for about 320.00 shipped. That's ridicules. I wish I had the buget to put on in every room in the house. A true on box solution. Just plug it up, run a digital cable of your choice, and bam. You are set.


----------



## Currawong

Toslink optical connectors are unfortunately, crap. They were designed by Toshiba, hence the name. On some older DACs you can still find the better optical connectors that locked in properly. From my experimentation, I'd say choose coax, then USB, then optical in that order if you can. Optical is best used if you are getting a lot of electrical noise from your computer, but otherwise is usually the worst connection.


----------



## jamato8

I don't agree. I have not found USB to be better than a good optical in Toslink and having built a dac that could use both optical and coax, I found they both worked well, when correctly implemented. Also the fiber used for many of the better made toslinks does and excellent job in low loss and transmitting the data.

 I have found that blanket statements, which are absolutes, disprove themselves by the mere fact that it is an absolute. There is plenty of variation in all the types of data transmission. That USB may be better in some cases does not mean it is always better and the same goes for coax. There are many white papers on all of this.


----------



## Chu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have found that blanket statements, which are absolutes, disprove themselves by the mere fact that it is an absolute._

 

I think you just broke my brain


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now this is crazy.

 Seems the problem has fixed itself. Seriously. I don't hear it anymore (I just noticed after a song stopped playing that it was gone) and everything is sounding good.

 Side note: The build quality of this thing is just awesome._

 

Audio GD website says to give Compass some time to acclimatize before switching it on (remember its traveling through places with different temperatures).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Toslink optical connectors are unfortunately, crap. They were designed by Toshiba, hence the name. On some older DACs you can still find the better optical connectors that locked in properly. From my experimentation, I'd say choose coax, then USB, then optical in that order if you can. Optical is best used if you are getting a lot of electrical noise from your computer, but otherwise is usually the worst connection._

 

I agree, unless you have very good optical connectors and cables, which is far costlier than decent coax cables.


----------



## arcer63

My Compass got here really quickly. 2days only. I am amazed at how good it sounds. One little issue that I have is that the preamp switch is backwards, it looks easy enough to correct though. I am listening to Explosions in the Sky through my Z-5500s using a coax to the compass and then the preamp connection from the Compass, it sounds so amazing. Its amazing how it even has the ability to fix up deficiencies in other components. I really liked my Z-5500s before, but they are so much more balanced when being fed through the Compass. 

 Oh yeah, I am at hour 2. I cant believe that it is going to get even better.

 I'm burning mine in with the soft-2 setting, so that might have a bit to do with the results that I'm getting too(especially the smoothness that the Z-5500s are exhibiting) It made some Bose inears sound really good too. And the etymotic er-4p's with the s conversion sound incredible.

 I'll make sure to keep everyone updated as the Compass progresses through its burn in.

 -Andre


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have found that blanket statements, which are absolutes, disprove themselves by the mere fact that it is an absolute._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you just broke my brain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haha, don't worry about it, he's just answering a blanket statement that's an absolute with....a blanket statement that's an absolute. Plenty of absolutes out there that can be adequately described with a blanket statement. (Second law of thermodynamics is a nice example.)

 However, in the case of digital connections I do agree. It's just a total maze of variation, not only with computers, but even with digital outputs from cd players and dvd players. There are certain generalisations that can be made, but you don't have to search for long to find plenty of exceptions to these generalisations. Every person will just have to experiment for him/herself with the options available to them.


----------



## Hottuna_

So far I have put roughly 60-70hrs on the Moon.
 Compass (bright+moon) -> HD650
 Loving it so far. The HD650 doesn't sound dark and depressing on this setup.

 I have been using the optical input from my soundcard all along. No dramas.
 Tested USB and Coaxial, both work fine.
 Truly an awesome piece of kit for the money.


----------



## mrarroyo

Man, the more I read of this unit the more I want one. Too bad I have way too many amps/dacs laying aroung. It sure looks good!


----------



## Starguard

I have a question for you folks using the compass to power speakers... How exactly are you doing this?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question for you folks using the compass to power speakers... How exactly are you doing this?_

 

They, for the most part, have active powered speakers.

 .


----------



## koruki

All this talk is making me regret not picking a coaxial cable while from audio-gd, was planning to go optical all the way. I guess USB is easy with the amount of USB cables i have laying around but it just doesn't feel right using USB haha.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koruki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All this talk is making me regret not picking a coaxial cable while from audio-gd, was planning to go optical all the way. I guess USB is easy with the amount of USB cables i have laying around but it just doesn't feel right using USB haha._

 

Before you come to a Goofy conclusion based on someone's interpretations of numbers on paper and their Unique Cat Like Hearing, do a search in the Source Forum.

 Do advanced search >> Keyword:Jitter >> SEARCH TITLES ONLY >> READ

 Sleep much better

 .


----------



## lowlevelowl

Second Update...

 Compass made it through the night doing about 12 hours of nonstop music playback with no issues while connected to USB. Pretty pleased about that, and pleased with the quality of playback via USB. I can discern no difference between USB and Toslink, but I hate to use up a USB port on my Mac mini if I can help it. Oh well...

 Toslink issue aside, this unit is great. Quite the bargain! It feels very well made, and sounds excellent as well.


----------



## Starguard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They, for the most part, have active powered speakers.

 ._

 

So could you give me a theoretical setup? Like what is plugging into what? 

 The reason I'm asking is... I was wondering if I could use my Compass to kill two birds with one stone and power a decent set of desktop speakers. I've been looking to upgrade.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question for you folks using the compass to power speakers... How exactly are you doing this?_

 

Since I have active speakers, I connected the DAC out to the speakers using and RCA to Mini (3.5mm) cable.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So could you give me a theoretical setup? Like what is plugging into what? 

 The reason I'm asking is... I was wondering if I could use my Compass to kill two birds with one stone and power a decent set of desktop speakers. I've been looking to upgrade._

 

1) Compass DAC OUT >> RCA to Speakers (May Need adapter for 1/8" Conversion)

 2) Compass Pre-Amp out >> RCA to Speakers (May Need adapter for 1/8" Conversion)

 Use #1 if your speakers have a Vol Control
 Use #2 if your speakers have power but no Vol Control

 I don't think the Compass out puts to either of these without throwing a switch, either Super or the Pre-amp switch.

 .


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) Compass DAC OUT >> RCA to Speakers (May Need adapter for 1/8" Conversion)

 2) Compass Pre-Amp out >> RCA to Speakers (May Need adapter for 1/8" Conversion)

 Use #1 if your speakers have a Vol Control
 Use #2 if your speakers have power but no Vol Control

 I don't think the Compass out puts to either of these without throwing a switch, either Super or the Pre-amp switch.

 ._

 

I'm using the Pre-Amp out to my Audioengine A2s. I would have liked to use the DAC out so I would just have to hit the SUPER button to engage the speakers, but the volume control on the A2 is on the back of the powered speaker. This is my only complaint about the A2.

 The Pre-Amp out works great with the A2s...much better than my soundcard out.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using the Pre-Amp out to my Audioengine A2s. I would have liked to use the DAC out so I would just have to hit the SUPER button to engage the speakers, but the volume control on the A2 is on the back of the powered speaker. This is my only complaint about the A2.

 The Pre-Amp out works great with the A2s...much better than my soundcard out._

 

They must have thought that Vol control(Spkr) would be a max level control and not an everyday use control. Shame, you could avoid the Headamp with the DAC out.

 .


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They must have thought that Vol control(Spkr) would be a max level control and not an everyday use control. Shame, you could avoid the Headamp with the DAC out.

 ._

 

I'm considering picking up a passive volume attenuator...SM Pro Audio makes the iNano. Everything I've read about it here indicates it has no adverse effect on SQ.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm considering picking up a passive volume attenuator...SM Pro Audio makes the iNano. Everything I've read about it here indicates it has no adverse effect on SQ._

 

There ya go!

 .


----------



## Hot Pixel

Somebody mentioned a couple of hundred pages back you could fry your Compass if you used the pre-out to power passive speakers?


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Somebody mentioned a couple of hundred pages back you could fry your Compass if you used the pre-out to power passive speakers?_

 

I have the Compass set to low gain. I recall reading that it was OK provided you used the low gain. Anyone with more info on this? I'd hate to cook my Compass or my A2s.


----------



## Aleatoris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the Compass set to low gain. I recall reading that it was OK provided you used the low gain. Anyone with more info on this? I'd hate to cook my Compass or my A2s.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm pretty sure the A2s are active speakers.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aleatoris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm pretty sure the A2s are active speakers._

 

Yeah...and your point?


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah...and your point?_

 

i think someone mentioned that the preamp fry passive speaker just now

 since u are using active speaker, most likely u are safe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i guess if it can fry active speaker, there is nothing it can't fry


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question for you folks using the compass to power speakers... How exactly are you doing this?_

 


 I have mine hooked up with interconnects from the Compass preamp outs to the inputs on an old Denon integrated amp. These are the inputs that bypass the pre-amp portion of the Denon, so I am only using the Denon amp in this application. 

 I tried using the super button and just running the Compass DAC into the pre-amp in on the Denon, but it did not sound nearly as good as when using the Compass as the pre-amp.

 This is then hooked up to a pair of mid level Mission floor standing speakers and sounds much better than running straight thru the old Denon CD player and integrated amp. Its great to be able to just hit the Denon power putton and flip the pre-amp switch on the Compass and get music thru the speakers, the versatility of the Compass is just amazing.

 I would really like to try this setup with a better 2 channel amp, like the Audio-GD Panther that is designed to match the Compass, but the IRS cleaned out my piggy bank, so that will have to wait awhile. Of course there are also a huge number of 2 channel amp options that I could pick up used for less than the Panther, so I will have to decide.

 Hope this helped.

 Mark


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i think someone mentioned that the preamp fry passive speaker just now

 since u are using active speaker, most likely u are safe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i guess if it can fry active speaker, there is nothing it can't fry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ahhh...I see. Thanks!


----------



## arcer63

Something weird is happening. Every so often I check the temp of the Compass. But for some reason it turns into a little bit of petting. It feels really smooth. Just thought I'd get that out there. Oh, and I cant remember who said it, but AR Rahman does sound great on it. I'm gonna see what classical sounds like next. I have to keep myself away from it so I can concentrate though. Ive got finals in 9 days. This is going to be hard...


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arcer63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Something weird is happening. Every so often I check the temp of the Compass. But for some reason it turns into a little bit of petting. It feels really smooth. Just thought I'd get that out there. Oh, and I cant remember who said it, but AR Rahman does sound great on it. I'm gonna see what classical sounds like next. I have to keep myself away from it so I can concentrate though. Ive got finals in 9 days. This is going to be hard..._

 

That's a little disturbing... maybe you need a (live) pet 

 And here, you can listen to this:
Amazon.com: Music For The Mozart Effect, Volume 1, Strengthen the Mind: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Capella Istropolitana, Northern Chamber Orchestra, Old Fairfield Orchestra, Janos Sebestyen, Malcolm Bilson, Wolf Harden, Takako Nishizaki: Music


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a little disturbing... maybe you need a (live) pet 

 And here, you can listen to this:
Amazon.com: Music For The Mozart Effect, Volume 1, Strengthen the Mind: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Capella Istropolitana, Northern Chamber Orchestra, Old Fairfield Orchestra, Janos Sebestyen, Malcolm Bilson, Wolf Harden, Takako Nishizaki: Music_

 

Okay, maybe its not actual(sustained) petting, i just slide my hand across it while pulling away as opposed to pulling directly(perpendicularly) away.

 Thanks for the link. I probably shouldn't listen to it through the compass though. Oh, I didnt realize it was a link to amazon, I think I've got enough classical. Or I'll be able to get more fairly easily.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arcer63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, maybe its not actual(sustained) petting, i just slide my hand across it while pulling away as opposed to pulling directly(perpendicularly) away.

 Thanks for the link. I probably shouldn't listen to it through the compass though. Oh, I didnt realize it was a link to amazon, I think I've got enough classical. Or I'll be able to get more fairly easily._

 

Ha ha! I read this post before reading what you wrote previously and had no idea what you were talking about. It sounds wrong on so many levels!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man, the more I read of this unit the more I want one. Too bad I have way too many amps/dacs laying aroung. It sure looks good!_

 

Give it a shot...you could always sell it rather quickly I'm willing to bet if it doesn't measure up. It edged out my highly modified Jaycar amp by a good margin if that helps your thought processes any (since I know you have one) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## karthur

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arcer63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Something weird is happening. Every so often I check the temp of the Compass. But for some reason it turns into a little bit of petting. It feels really smooth. Just thought I'd get that out there. Oh, and I cant remember who said it, but AR Rahman does sound great on it. I'm gonna see what classical sounds like next. I have to keep myself away from it so I can concentrate though. Ive got finals in 9 days. This is going to be hard..._

 

Petting is completely natural, although it is usually mutual...which probably (I hope) does not apply in this case. It may lead to other things however, just make sure you are properly protected.


----------



## thelsuman

arcer63;5651918 said:
			
		

> Okay, maybe its not actual(sustained) petting, i just slide my hand across it while pulling away as opposed to pulling directly(perpendicularly) away.QUOTE]
> 
> Wow- this Compass is one amazingly versatile piece of equipment. Kingwa's definitely going to make a fortune
> 
> ...


----------



## moodyrn

X2. I had already had a moon with about 300 hours on it. I actually prefered the new earth that came with my compass. After I put about 400 hours on the earth, I'll put another 100 or so on the moon and compare them again. I really was expecting to like the moon more, especially one that already partially burned in. But to my ears, the earth was just more transparent, detailed, and had tigher bass. I did like the moon, but to me the sound was a little too thick. It just wasn't as clear sounding as the earth.


----------



## Starguard

Alright, here's a question for you guys. 

 I am trying to use the Pre-Amp on my Compass with my Rega P1 turntable. I plug in the RCA L/R from the turntable to the corresponding jacks on the compass, turn on the pre-amp switch, plug in my headphones and start the TT up... No sound.

 Ideas?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, here's a question for you guys. 

 I am trying to use the Pre-Amp on my Compass with my Rega P1 turntable. I plug in the RCA L/R from the turntable to the corresponding jacks on the compass, turn on the pre-amp switch, plug in my headphones and start the TT up... No sound.

 Ideas?_

 

I thought you used Super button for this, not preamp switch... does your turntable have a phono amp in it?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Scottie is correct.....Star you need a phono amp stage before the Compass Analog line in......what did you normally plug the Rega P1 into before the Compass came along ?

 Peete.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hot Pixel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Somebody mentioned a couple of hundred pages back you could fry your Compass if you used the pre-out to power passive speakers?_

 

That would be me, coming from Kingwa. If you have a set of passive speakers (no amp), then you need a dedicated amp / receiver in the audio chain or look at picking up the matching Panther. If you have active speakers (with built-in amp) such as the Audioengine A5s / A2s, then you can hook them up to the RCA outputs.

 As an update, I'm enjoying the Moon's wide soundstage and bass impact; however, I'm leaning towards the Earth for its clarity / neutrality and Neutral jumper setting as my permanent setup with my DT880/250s.


----------



## jron

Kingwa came through on sending out my new Compass. This one was in a box 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd post by initial thoughts on the unit but why waste the time? This thing is amazing for the money! Get one... or two


----------



## moodyrn

This may sound like a dumb question, but can I bypass my receiver volume controls and use the compass as a preamp to my receiver using the record in out function?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This may sound like a dumb question, but can I bypass my receiver volume controls and use the compass as a preamp to my receiver using the record in out function?_

 

Some receivers have a set of two jacks at the back jumpered. You could bypass your volume control in it via those jacks, which is what someone a page or two earlier did. If you don't have those two jumpered sets of RCA jacks, you wont be able to.


----------



## Starguard

*Ok, here's something that's very weird.*

 I just tried to hookup the toslink again. As soon as I plugged it in...

 The buzzing is back, and it's different.

 It's the same noise, but now it seems like it's transmitting in Morse code. It keeps doing short, intermittent buzzes followed by long buzzes. Again, it's very low, but audible.

 It's on every channel.

 Help?

*EDIT:* And just after maybe 3 minutes... It's gone! It sounds like interference. But I couldn't imagine what from. I'm afraid my Optical ports are faulty on my Compass... (The optical out works through my regular sytem...)


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some receivers have a set of two jacks at the back jumpered. You could bypass your volume control in it via those jacks, which is what someone a page or two earlier did. If you don't have those two jumpered sets of RCA jacks, you wont be able to._

 

Ok thanks.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Ok, here's something that's very weird.*

 I just tried to hookup the toslink again. As soon as I plugged it in...

 The buzzing is back, and it's different.

 It's the same noise, but now it seems like it's transmitting in Morse code. It keeps doing short, intermittent buzzes followed by long buzzes. Again, it's very low, but audible.

 It's on every channel.

 Help?

*EDIT:* And just after maybe 3 minutes... It's gone! It sounds like interference. But I couldn't imagine what from. I'm afraid my Optical ports are faulty on my Compass... (The optical out works through my regular sytem...)_

 

That sounds very much like a noise I hear from my A2 speakers. I found it happens only when I leave my cell phone on my desk near the speakers. I'm dead serious. Is your cell phone near your Compass?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Ok, here's something that's very weird.*

 I just tried to hookup the toslink again. As soon as I plugged it in...

 The buzzing is back, and it's different.

 It's the same noise, but now it seems like it's transmitting in Morse code. It keeps doing short, intermittent buzzes followed by long buzzes. Again, it's very low, but audible.

 It's on every channel.

 Help?

*EDIT:* And just after maybe 3 minutes... It's gone! It sounds like interference. But I couldn't imagine what from. I'm afraid my Optical ports are faulty on my Compass... (The optical out works through my regular sytem...)_

 

Tried a different optical cable?

 Actually... what bitrate are your sources?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's the same noise, but now it seems like it's transmitting in Morse code. It keeps doing short, intermittent buzzes followed by long buzzes. Again, it's very low, but audible._

 

What you describe is like noise (interference) coming from the computer. I get this through USB with some devices.


----------



## Starguard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That sounds very much like a noise I hear from my A2 speakers. I found it happens only when I leave my cell phone on my desk near the speakers. I'm dead serious. Is your cell phone near your Compass?_

 

You're the winner! That's exactly what it is.

 I can't believe I didn't think of that--my old set up picked up cell phone interference and even my guitar amp picks up this signal. Weird! 

 (PS--sent you a PM about the A2s)


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're the winner! That's exactly what it is.

 I can't believe I didn't think of that--my old set up picked up cell phone interference and even my guitar amp picks up this signal. Weird! 

 (PS--sent you a PM about the A2s)_

 

The 'Morse code' you're referring to is EMI:

 wZ9itQJ6i28

 Starguard, ecclesand, what cell phone model are you using? Are you on a GSM provider? Lots of variables in play i.e., location to cell tower base stations, GSM vs. CDMA, quality of EM shielding. I'm on CDMA and haven't had any interference issues.


----------



## Starguard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 'Morse code' you're referring to is EMI:

 wZ9itQJ6i28

 Starguard, ecclesand, what cell phone model are you using? Are you on a GSM provider? Lots of variables in play i.e., location to cell tower base stations, GSM vs. CDMA, quality of EM shielding. I'm on CDMA and haven't had any interference issues._

 

I have an iPhone. Like I said, it doesn't happen much at all and I'm not really concerned about it.

 On a different note: I'm thinking about getting a plexiglass sheet and cutting it down to the size of the Compass' lid... Thoughts?


----------



## techfreakazoid

That's good to know. I see the EMI more often with GSM radios. Boardroom Polycoms are notorious for picking up the buzz on BlackBerries.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On a different note: I'm thinking about getting a plexiglass sheet and cutting it down to the size of the Compass' lid... Thoughts?_

 

You'd lose some shielding doing it, but might be worth doing for fun if it doesn't cause the Compass to pick up more EMI.


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tried a different optical cable?

 Actually... what bitrate are your sources?

 ~Phewl._

 


 It's a good thing you mentioned this. This morning my compass couldnt decode 96khz optical output. I couldnt figure out why. Now it is having no problems with it though. I wouldnt have known that it can read it now if you hadnt brought it up. Although I do wonder why it couldnt decode it this morning. Maybe part of the burn-in process?

 Oh, and about me thinking the preamp switch was mounted in the wrong orientation. I had asked for the preamp switch to be mounted in front of the unit when I ordered. When I first got it yesterday, I thought that they had forgotten because all of the switches were in their correct places. It didnt bother me that much, I was just glad to have it. What they actually did is give the super button the preamp switching function and the preamp switch in back was given the super button functionality. This is really convenient. Although it would have been helpful if they had tried to explain this to me. Now that I have figured it out though, I don't care.

 Just passed 24 hours, I'm absolutely loving this thing. Im getting really low running temps too, about 103 degF. I cant wait to see what tomorrow brings.


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have an iPhone. Like I said, it doesn't happen much at all and I'm not really concerned about it.

 On a different note: I'm thinking about getting a plexiglass sheet and cutting it down to the size of the Compass' lid... Thoughts?_

 

Yeah I have thoughts about that. 

 Genius!


----------



## gilency

Just got my Compass today, in perfect condition. Have not tried the optical or coaxial yet but the USB sound good. I have all the jumpers in to allow them to burn in together. The overall sound is bright and harsh. I only hope it will improve over time. The overall quality of this DAC/amplifier is very solid. I connected it to my home amplifier and speakers to use it with my music server (an old iBook G4). I will put up with the harsh sound for a while otherwise I will just change to a softer sound.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I contacted DHL and sent an email to Kingwa, I have full confidence that he will make things right._

 

Well, I received my replacement gear today and I am TOTALLY IMPRESSED with Audio-GD's service and products. Audio-gd actually had the shipment at my locale 2 days ago, but due to a really busy week on my part, I missed the DHL rep on his initial attempt...

 Both vendors and customers always want things to go perfectly. Sometimes in life, we all know that $hit happens from time to time. Kingwa and Cherry @ Audio-gd did an amazing job of rapidly correcting an unfortunate situation, I thank them very much for their outstanding service!!!

 As for the products, well I must say that I'm totally blown away. My gear showed up perfectly packed in boxes with foam and protective wrap in 110% flawless condition. I have read just about every post on this huge thread. Based on all of the positive feedback, I expected the gear to sound great, that's why I ordered it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Right out of the box it has exceeded all of my expectations, I'm blown away, it's pure quality!!!

 The Compass DAC and amp both sound great!! I'm also running the Compass DAC into the C2C amp. Those that are interested in a standalone amp should seriously consider the C2C, it's a VERY high-quality amp.

 My gear has very few hours on it, so I'll wait on going into granular detail until it has burned-in/matured for a while. Again, my initial impressions couldn't be any more positive, this is very high-quality gear. I've have seen several people(even in Skylab's review) ask about the synergy w/ Beyer cans. IMO, it's FANTASTIC. I've ran both Compass and C2C with DT880 and DT990, the synergy with both is incredible, I'm looking forward to spending many hours taking all of this gear through the paces, pure audio nirvana!! I have A TON OF HUGE positives to report, but out of respect for the head-fi community, I'm simply waiting for some basic burn-in before rambling on about the details... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 **** DHL WARNING *****
 As I stated in my first paragraph, I missed the initial delivery attempt. I was very firm about "signature required". When the driver showed up today, he told me that on Wednesday, he was going door to door in my neighborhood trying to find a neighbor to sign for my packages...*What????????* I told him, if you ever deliver to me again, don't EVER do that again!!!! Simply incredible. The customer should be the only one to EVER release signature/receipt liability. This is not a knock on Audio-gd at all. If DHL is delivering to you make sure your delivery terms are absolutely clear with them !!! 
 *********************


----------



## Currawong

Laidback: Glad yours has finally arrived and you're enjoying it. 

 I've put a recommendation towards using EMS in the FAQ (which is cheaper anyway). I've also changed the description of Normal and Super modes. If people could have a look and tell me what you think it'd be much appreciated.


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On a different note: I'm thinking about getting a plexiglass sheet and cutting it down to the size of the Compass' lid... Thoughts?_

 

Hell yeah, I wanna do that to!


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Laidback: Glad yours has finally arrived and you're enjoying it. 

 I've put a recommendation towards using EMS in the FAQ (which is cheaper anyway). I've also changed the description of Normal and Super modes. If people could have a look and tell me what you think it'd be much appreciated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey,　that's a very nice diagram you have there for the Super mode. Just a glance and I totally understand what the Super button does. Thanks.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On a different note: I'm thinking about getting a plexiglass sheet and cutting it down to the size of the Compass' lid... Thoughts?_

 

It's a nice idea cosmetically, certainly if you're using the Sun opamp. One thing to keep in mind though is that the whole of the Compass casing works as a big heatsink. Replacing the lid with plexiglass may lead to your Compass getting hotter. (But probably not problematically so.)


----------



## qib

hi, a question... How long does it usually take between shipping and receiving it here in the uk. i got the first sign of posting on the 30th april tracked with ems. Anyone have a rough idea?

 2009-04-30 15:18:00 SHANGHAI Posting 
 　 2009-04-30 18:04:00 SHANGHAI Despatch from Sorting Center 
 　 2009-05-01 06:07:20 SHANGHAI Arrival at Sorting Center 
 　 2009-05-01 07:37:20 SHANGHAI Despatch from Sorting Center


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qib* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi, a question... How long does it usually take between shipping and receiving it here in the uk. i got the first sign of posting on the 30th april tracked with ems. Anyone have a rough idea?

 2009-04-30 15:18:00 SHANGHAI Posting 
 　 2009-04-30 18:04:00 SHANGHAI Despatch from Sorting Center 
 　 2009-05-01 06:07:20 SHANGHAI Arrival at Sorting Center 
 　 2009-05-01 07:37:20 SHANGHAI Despatch from Sorting Center_

 

if am not not wrong, China is having their annual labour day holidays from 1st to 3rd May


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On a different note: I'm thinking about getting a plexiglass sheet and cutting it down to the size of the Compass' lid... Thoughts?_

 

I agree with Drosera, you may have heating issues, but I don't think it should be a problem. But it's an awesome idea and should make it look great. Let us know how it goes!


----------



## joewatch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Laidback: Glad yours has finally arrived and you're enjoying it. 

 I've put a recommendation towards using EMS in the FAQ (which is cheaper anyway). I've also changed the description of Normal and Super modes. If people could have a look and tell me what you think it'd be much appreciated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Really nice work on the Normal/Super mode diagrams,Currawong. I was wanting to test out how sound from iPod-> Compass was last night and figured out that was what the Super button was for. 

 BTW, on my system, RCA line-in has left/right channels reversed. Anybody else notice this?


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 'Morse code' you're referring to is EMI:

 wZ9itQJ6i28

 Starguard, ecclesand, what cell phone model are you using? Are you on a GSM provider? Lots of variables in play i.e., location to cell tower base stations, GSM vs. CDMA, quality of EM shielding. I'm on CDMA and haven't had any interference issues._

 

I would have checked in sooner, but Friday night is movie night at home with the Mrs. I have a GSM provider. It sucks because I work from home and use my cellphone for work so it has to stay on the desk next to me. The good thing is I don't hear it thru my headphones at all which means the Compass is blocking the interference. I used to hear it with my previous setup, but it was VERY faint.

 I need to do some research to determine how to fix it. Oh, and I have a Motorola Razr phone.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would have checked in sooner, but Friday night is movie night at home with the Mrs. I have a GSM provider. It sucks because I work from home and use my cellphone for work so it has to stay on the desk next to me. The good thing is I don't hear it thru my headphones at all which means the Compass is blocking the interference. I used to hear it with my previous setup, but it was VERY faint.

 I need to do some research to determine how to fix it. Oh, and I have a Motorola Razr phone._

 

I hear this at work all the time. It is definitely worst with Blackberries... at work I have powered desk monitors (M-Audio Studio Pro 4) and a small recording booth (for voice recording) -- I hear it thru both. I am constantly reminding people to turn off their blackberries when in or even near my office because it often screws up the recordings. It's very annoying and I've yet to find a solution for it. Luckily I've never heard it at home thru any of my equipment - then again I don't have a blackberry.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hear this at work all the time. It is definitely worst with Blackberries... at work I have powered desk monitors (M-Audio Studio Pro 4) and a small recording booth (for voice recording) -- I hear it thru both. I am constantly reminding people to turn off their blackberries when in or even near my office because it often screws up the recordings. It's very annoying and I've yet to find a solution for it. Luckily I've never heard it at home thru any of my equipment - then again I don't have a blackberry._

 

I have a Palm Treo and my Active Monitors remind me when it gets within about 2 feet of one of the Monitors. Bumble Bees in the speaker!

 .


----------



## pete~

i have already paid for my compass several days ago but he keeps pushing the dates forward. He says it will be sent 4th May. Also the website is not working for me.

 Why are they doing this?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have already paid for my compass several days ago but he keeps pushing the dates forward. He says it will be sent 4th May. Also the website is not working for me.

 Why are they doing this?_

 

When did you place the order??.. I am asking because a week or so ago, they posted in their website that the lead time would be 2 weeks.

 website seems to be working fine for me (just checked).


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When did you place the order??.. I am asking because a week or so ago, they posted in their website that the lead time would be 2 weeks.

 website seems to be working fine for me (just checked)._

 

About 2 weeks or more ago? 

 By the way how does compass sound in a hifi ?

 I am not using headphones but will be using it straight into a power amp.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About 2 weeks or more ago? 

 By the way how does compass sound in a hifi ?

 I am not using headphones but will be using it straight into a power amp._

 

Well then I guess its not too bad as far as delivery schedule goes.

 As for Compass as preamp in a Hi-fi setup, quite a few folks including Peete who did a very detailed review of Compass, found Compass exceed expectations when used as a preamp, so I dont think you will be disappointed.

 EDIT - You will find a very detailed review of Compass as a preamp here :

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5420063-post2019.html

 Its an epic review - if you don't have the time you can just read the preamp section, although I advise to read all..


----------



## driftingbunnies

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man, the more I read of this unit the more I want one. Too bad I have way too many amps/dacs laying aroung. It sure looks good!_

 

I'd be happy to take an amp or too off your hands so you can get yourself a compass


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joewatch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really nice work on the Normal/Super mode diagrams,Currawong. I was wanting to test out how sound from iPod-> Compass was last night and figured out that was what the Super button was for. 

 BTW, on my system, RCA line-in has left/right channels reversed. Anybody else notice this?_

 

Yes, for some reason, it was designed with the right above left, in reverse of convention. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About 2 weeks or more ago? 

 By the way how does compass sound in a hifi ?

 I am not using headphones but will be using it straight into a power amp._

 

pete: I don't want to be harsh, but you seem to ask a lot of questions that I've gone to great lengths to answer in the FAQ. I suggest you head to the reviews section and read some of them, if you haven't already. If you had read everything in the first place, your questions would have been answered already.

 As for the delay, I gather they are extremely busy right now. Despite that, Kingwa has said he wont compromise quality at all, so if that means another week or two delay, it at least means you will get a quality unit in the end.


----------



## gilency

I have a stupid question. Do the jumpers go parallel or perpendicular to the front to back (antero-posterior) axis of the Compass?


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Compass DAC and amp both sound great!! I'm also running the Compass DAC into the C2C amp. Those that are interested in a standalone amp should seriously consider the C2C, it's a VERY high-quality amp.

 My gear has very few hours on it, so I'll wait on going into granular detail until it has burned-in/matured for a while. Again, my initial impressions couldn't be any more positive, this is very high-quality gear. I've have seen several people(even in Skylab's review) ask about the synergy w/ Beyer cans. IMO, it's FANTASTIC. I've ran both Compass and C2C with DT880 and DT990, the synergy with both is incredible, I'm looking forward to spending many hours taking all of this gear through the paces, pure audio nirvana!! I have A TON OF HUGE positives to report, but out of respect for the head-fi community, I'm simply waiting for some basic burn-in before rambling on about the details... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LaidBack, good to hear you're enjoying the Compass and C2C with the beyers. I'm favoring the Earth-Neutral jumper arrangement as the permanent setup. Interested to hear your impressions on how the Compass compares with the C2C with your DT880/250s along with the DT880/600s and DT990/600s. Boy, it must be Christmas season! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would have checked in sooner, but Friday night is movie night at home with the Mrs. I have a GSM provider. It sucks because I work from home and use my cellphone for work so it has to stay on the desk next to me. The good thing is I don't hear it thru my headphones at all which means the Compass is blocking the interference. I used to hear it with my previous setup, but it was VERY faint.

 I need to do some research to determine how to fix it. Oh, and I have a Motorola Razr phone._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hear this at work all the time. It is definitely worst with Blackberries... at work I have powered desk monitors (M-Audio Studio Pro 4) and a small recording booth (for voice recording) -- I hear it thru both. I am constantly reminding people to turn off their blackberries when in or even near my office because it often screws up the recordings. It's very annoying and I've yet to find a solution for it. Luckily I've never heard it at home thru any of my equipment - then again I don't have a blackberry._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a Palm Treo and my Active Monitors remind me when it gets within about 2 feet of one of the Monitors. Bumble Bees in the speaker!_

 

Have you guys tried replicating the buzz with CDMA devices? I believe there's something inherent in CDMA technology that eliminates/reduces the buzz.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if am not not wrong, China is having their annual labour day holidays from 1st to 3rd May_

 

Yes, it's Labor Day holidays in China: International Workers' Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Here's my earlier post on China's 2009 public holidays.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's a list of China's 2009 public holidays that you can check out (2009 China Public Holidays announced) and plan your future orders.






 Also, the delays will be amplified by using EMS i.e., govt entity = public holidays, and EMS's outbound port is Shanghai and not HK._


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...As for the delay, I gather they are extremely busy right now. Despite that, Kingwa has said he wont compromise quality at all, so if that means another week or two delay, it at least means you will get a quality unit in the end..._

 

X2. The A-GD gear I received is absolutely perfect. Waiting a couple of weeks for hand-made quality is nothing, this gear should be enjoyed for years and years to come...

 Speaking of being patient, I told myself I was going to throw my Compass into soft-2 mode today and just let it burn-in for a couple of weeks. Well, that hasn't happened yet. I still have it in neutral(w/ Earth OPA) and I can't stop listening to it. I have it feeding the C2C as well, both are a really nice ride...


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a stupid question. Do the jumpers go parallel or perpendicular to the front to back (antero-posterior) axis of the Compass?_

 

Here's a pic that should help...


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's a pic that should help..._

 

Thanks for adding the colors to the boxes. (which are missing in the Audio GD page)


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for adding the colors to the boxes. (which are missing in the Audio GD page)_

 

You're welcome, but that's not my work. I grabbed that pic from a previous post on this thread by Les...


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're welcome, but that's not my work. I grabbed that pic from a previous post on this thread by Les..._

 

Silly me. I missed it.....


----------



## AudioPhewl

As-per the white silkscreen markings on the PCB, join the arrowed dots to make the connection, or leave the jumpers off to leave it open. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LaidBack, good to hear you're enjoying the Compass and C2C with the beyers. I'm favoring the Earth-Neutral jumper arrangement as the permanent setup. Interested to hear your impressions on how the Compass compares with the C2C with your DT880/250s along with the DT880/600s and DT990/600s. Boy, it must be Christmas season! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL, yeah but my wallet sure is taking a whipping! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I have the Sun and Moon also, but based on all that I have read I initially fired up the Compass in Neutral w/ Earth. It sounds so good I haven't felt compelled to do any further testing or soft-2 burn yet. I'll burn and test everything asap. For now I'm just really enjoying the current config, it seems to be doing everything soooo right. 

 I'm very hesitant to go into minute details and comparisons until the gear has burned-in/matured. I really like both the Compass and C2C. The Compass has a quality amp and it sounds great, but right out of the gate I can hear the C2C improvements others have mentioned. The details, soundstage, dynamic range/extension, etc. are all impressive. The C2C sounds very substantial and it performs with undeniable authority. IMO, the Compass is a great choice for a combo unit, the C2C is a great choice for a standalone amp. I can easily highly recommend both of them...

 The A-GD synergy w/ the Beyer 250's is really strong. What makes this even more interesting for me is that I know Kingwa developed/tested with many nice cans, but I don't think he has Beyer in his stable, I certainly could be wrong. Whatever the case, IMO the A-GD gear and Beyer seem like they were made for each other. I will report back when I get the 600's. Me and my wallet are sure hoping there's a justifiable boost in the upgrade from 250Ω to 600Ω...


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Silly me. I missed it....._

 

LOL, yeah, out of 6,500+ posts on this thread anything is easy to miss...


----------



## Starguard

*Alright, the buzzing could be coming from something else.*

 Don't know what though. There are three iPhones in this house (mine is off and the other ones are a floor below me) but I still hear the buzzing.

 I there some kind of shielding material I could line the compass with?

 It's driving me crazy!

 I can't think of any other devices I have that would be emitting this interference.


----------



## zeroibis

Are you using a high quality power cable perhaps that is the problem?

 I think I am pretty much soled on this thing, I will probably order one the week of the tenth and take advantage of this amazing low price. I think at this price I might as well order the upgraded power cable from them (that is separate right)


----------



## gilency

I am listening with my DT880's using neutral Earth. Wow!! I thought it was just hype. I apologize. The soundstage is wonderful, very wide. The sparkling highs are way up there. As a matter of fact some times a little to bright. But the sound is definitely in a different league from the LD MkIII. It has burned for only 24 hours. Thank you Audio GD and Currawong.


----------



## Starguard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you using a high quality power cable perhaps that is the problem?

 I think I am pretty much soled on this thing, I will probably order one the week of the tenth and take advantage of this amazing low price. I think at this price I might as well order the upgraded power cable from them (that is separate right)_

 

Nope.

 I don't know why the buzzing comes and go. This is the longest it has gone on for (around 30 minutes now).


----------



## zeroibis

Just to clarify that by buzzing you mean a low frequency sound, not a ringing sound as a high frequency noise.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am listening with my DT880's using neutral Earth. Wow!! I thought it was just hype. I apologize. The soundstage is wonderful, very wide. The sparkling highs are way up there. As a matter of fact some times a little to bright. But the sound is definitely in a different league from the LD MkIII. It has burned for only 24 hours. Thank you Audio GD and Currawong._

 

Check out the nice mids and lows too...my experience so far with the Compass Neutral and Earth with Beyer 880/990 has been very detailed, balanced, dynamic, robust, exciting...very "full-bodied" and honest...

 I'm curious, what track(s) and format gave you the "too bright" highs at times?


----------



## zeroibis

On that note is it believed that the Earth sounds best on the DT-990 vs the Moon and Sun. From the specs and initial reports I read I suspected this; however, I have not read anything from an actual DT-990 owner stating which of the three sounds best.


----------



## oldschool

I've been burning the Compass with all jumpers on since Monday. I was a bit worried it sounded somewhat harsh to me even on Soft2, but now it's finally starting to 'relax' and sound smoother.

 By the way, I do hear some noise when turning the volume pot with my ER-4Ps and there's no music playing. None to be heard on the MS-1s. I guess the Ety's are extremely sensitive and pick everything.


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check out the nice mids and lows too...my experience so far with the Compass Neutral and Earth with Beyer 880/990 has been very detailed, balanced, dynamic, robust, exciting...very "full-bodied" and honest...

 I'm curious, what track(s) and format gave you the "too bright" highs at times?_

 

Cecillia Bartoli's Mozart's arias. Sometimes her voice sounded a little shrill. Andrea Boccelli's voice also sounded a little sibilant. 
 The degree of detail with baroque and symphonies (Beethoven's fifth) is amazing. Bach's cantatas are so detailed each instrument is so easy to follow. The choirs sound like I am listening live. Able to distinguish individual voices. it is midnight and have to work tomorrow. Will leave the Compass burning continuously for the next few days. Oh, and I only listen to Apple Losseless format.


----------



## ScottieB

Hey gilency - glad you're enjoying your compass. Just a word of advice - give it some time before you write off your MKIII... when I first got the compass I had the same feeling - like it blew away the MKIII... I'm not sure if it had to do with burn-in, or the new factor, or just that I'd yet to really listen to the MKIII with a good DAC, but after time, when I went back to the MKIII, I found that the Compass amp wasn't really worlds better as I originally thought - just different. Tube vs solid state - whatever - but once I got accustomed to it, I found that I enjoy both in different ways - depends on my mood, headphones, and what I'm listening to. Right now I'm really enjoying the compass feeding the MKIII with rock and my Grados. Of course you may prefer the Compass amp, just wanted to share my experience. Either way, enjoy!!!

 edit - nm I see you no longer have the MKIII - oh well... my experience is the same either way...


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been burning the Compass with all jumpers on since Monday. I was a bit worried it sounded somewhat harsh to me even on Soft2, but now it's finally starting to 'relax' and sound smoother..._

 

My C2C and Compass(Neutral/Earth) only has ~30 hours on it now and I haven't heard anything even remotely harsh from them yet. The only strange moment I've had is when I first powered things up, the C2C seemed a little boomy. In all fairness, it wasn't even warm/alive yet. After running for an hour or so, it smoothed out, and it has been kicking ***** and taking names ever since then, this thing is a monster. I'm not taking it easy over here at all, I'm making sure that I'm pushing to the depths and the edges...

 I've been listening to CD's, FLAC's, various Lame V0-V2 mp3's...all sound very honest and solid via Coax, USB, and Optical. I suspect my Grado's would be the first to show me anything harsh, but they are doing nothing but making me smile.

 If I hear anything harsh...I'll report cans, track, format, source, transport, blah, blah, blah. So far I couldn't be more happy, good times...


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cecillia Bartoli's Mozart's arias. Sometimes her voice sounded a little shrill. Andrea Boccelli's voice also sounded a little sibilant. 
 The degree of detail with baroque and symphonies (Beethoven's fifth) is amazing. Bach's cantatas are so detailed each instrument is so easy to follow. The choirs sound like I am listening live. Able to distinguish individual voices. it is midnight and have to work tomorrow. Will leave the Compass burning continuously for the next few days. Oh, and I only listen to Apple Losseless format._

 

Thanks Gilency, that sounds very interesting. I'm going to check it out, thanks again...


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, yeah but my wallet sure is taking a whipping! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I have the Sun and Moon also, but based on all that I have read I initially fired up the Compass in Neutral w/ Earth. It sounds so good I haven't felt compelled to do any further testing or soft-2 burn yet. I'll burn and test everything asap. For now I'm just really enjoying the current config, it seems to be doing everything soooo right. 

 I'm very hesitant to go into minute details and comparisons until the gear has burned-in/matured. I really like both the Compass and C2C. The Compass has a quality amp and it sounds great, but right out of the gate I can hear the C2C improvements others have mentioned. The details, soundstage, dynamic range/extension, etc. are all impressive. The C2C sounds very substantial and it performs with undeniable authority. IMO, the Compass is a great choice for a combo unit, the C2C is a great choice for a standalone amp. I can easily highly recommend both of them...

 The A-GD synergy w/ the Beyer 250's is really strong. What makes this even more interesting for me is that I know Kingwa developed/tested with many nice cans, but I don't think he has Beyer in his stable, I certainly could be wrong. Whatever the case, IMO the A-GD gear and Beyer seem like they were made for each other. I will report back when I get the 600's. Me and my wallet are sure hoping there's a justifiable boost in the upgrade from 250Ω to 600Ω..._

 

I can relate to your experience. When I first fired up the Compass, I couldn't be bothered to mess around with all the setting options as my ears were in audio bliss with the Earth-Neutral setup. Once I familiarized myself with the E-N sound signature, I burned the other modes and Moon. For certain songs, Moon-Neutral works great; however, I kept coming back to E-N for the majority of my listening. My sonic preferences are: 1) clarity, 2) speed, 3) tight bass, 4) slightly warm mids, and 5) soundstage. Maybe in the next version of the Compass, Kingwa can redesign the DAC board to accommodate two OPAs and add a 'Super Duper' button to switch between the two OPAs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Moon has a little more oomph in the bass department and wider soundstage than the Earth; however, some detail is lost and the mids are recessed. Currently, chilling to Enya's angelic voice and the soothing soundstage. Female vocals shine in E-N.

 Take your time with the burn-in and acclimating your ears to the various setups.

 You're right, Kingwa did not have any beyer cans in his stable. It's good to hear a quality SS amp given the typical marriage of beyer cans with tube amps.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am listening with my DT880's using neutral Earth. Wow!! I thought it was just hype. I apologize. The soundstage is wonderful, very wide. The sparkling highs are way up there. As a matter of fact some times a little to bright. But the sound is definitely in a different league from the LD MkIII. It has burned for only 24 hours. Thank you Audio GD and Currawong._

 

Good to hear you're enjoying the DT880-Compass synergy. Your Compass is evolving so give it time to settle. If your listening preferences are for a more mellow sound, try Soft1. Can you elaborate on the LD MKIII comparison?


----------



## lowlevelowl

I've been enjoying my Compass now for about 3 days, still think its a fantastic bargain. When ordering I thought I would prefer the Moon HDAM and installed nearly as soon as the Compass arrived. However after some experimentation, I think I might prefer the Earth overall. I've done most of my listening with the HD650s so far.

 Also, the Compass is a great DAC. In fact, IMO, the DAC is superior to the amp component. Using the Compass to feed my M3 and Millet SS, the sound is excellent.

 I think I've made my last headphone gear purchase for a while. I've been wanting to get into Vinyl and want to buy a turntable anyway...


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lowlevelowl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, the Compass is a great DAC. In fact, IMO, the DAC is superior to the amp component._

 

This is interesting. I have heard many saying the contrary...that the Amp was better than the DAC. I just received the Audiotailor Jade, so maybe until I can find a DACMagic I will hook this baby up to the Compass to start the burn in.


----------



## edselfordfong

Hey, wanted to report in that my two compasses arrived on Thursday. (I actually would have had them on Wednesday, but I was on the can when the DHL guy came. Story of my life.) Everything safe and sound, and all inputs and switches seem to work properly. I'm extremely happy with it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's really going to change my life, since I'll be able to listen on my cans after wife and kid go to bed.

 I really want to thank all the people on the thread who contributed to this project, especially Currawong for getting it going. 

 Since I have two of them for the moment, I'm also putting my burn-in comparison plan into action. I'm going to be at my parent's house for another 10days or so, so I won't get up to the 400 hour mark before I have to leave one compass for my dad. I did an initial comparison of the two of them to make sure they sound the same to begin with. I'll compare again later after burning in one of them.

 incidentally, my father's initial impression is that he'll listen to the Compass dac with his X-can v2 tube amp. He thinks that it's superior to the compass amp. I haven't compared, but I think that either burn-in will improve the compass amp, or my dad is being influenced by his extreme skepticism of computer audio, solid state, Chinese products, and the Compass's low price. He just can't seem to get over the idea that this is some sort of cheapo gimmick. However, he did say that the DAC is a massive improvement over his iMac's on-board. I set him up with an optical out of the Mac.

 Also, FWIW I A/Bed it with the CDP I used to check the inputs. A budget Marantz from 6-7 years ago that my dad has sitting around. Compass dac easily beat it, much more detail. Specifically, I was listening for cymbals, which sounded brighter and livelier with the Compass.

 Fallout from the bagging fiasco is that they shipped without any of the cords and whatnot. (I'll find that stuff when I go home and open my Compass bags.) That's fine, I OK'd that with Cherry, but I'd like to try it with the jumpers, since all I can get is the bright setting now. Also, would like the jumpers for burn-in. Can I just get those jumpers at Radio Shack or something?


----------



## mrarroyo

edselfordfong as I remember only the X-Can V1 was made in Great Britain. The rest were built in Asia and they all sound fine. Has your dad had his X-Can V2 modded with the PinkFloyd mods? If interested shoot me a PM. (BTW, I do not make any money on this.)


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, wanted to report in that my two compasses arrived on Thursday. (I actually would have had them on Wednesday, but I was on the can when the DHL guy came. Story of my life.) Everything safe and sound, and all inputs and switches seem to work properly. I'm extremely happy with it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's really going to change my life, since I'll be able to listen on my cans after wife and kid go to bed.

 I really want to thank all the people on the thread who contributed to this project, especially Currawong for getting it going. 

 Since I have two of them for the moment, I'm also putting my burn-in comparison plan into action. I'm going to be at my parent's house for another 10days or so, so I won't get up to the 400 hour mark before I have to leave one compass for my dad. I did an initial comparison of the two of them to make sure they sound the same to begin with. I'll compare again later after burning in one of them.

 incidentally, my father's initial impression is that he'll listen to the Compass dac with his X-can v2 tube amp. He thinks that it's superior to the compass amp. I haven't compared, but I think that either burn-in will improve the compass amp, or my dad is being influenced by his extreme skepticism of computer audio, solid state, Chinese products, and the Compass's low price. He just can't seem to get over the idea that this is some sort of cheapo gimmick. However, he did say that the DAC is a massive improvement over his iMac's on-board. I set him up with an optical out of the Mac.

 Also, FWIW I A/Bed it with the CDP I used to check the inputs. A budget Marantz from 6-7 years ago that my dad has sitting around. Compass dac easily beat it, much more detail. Specifically, I was listening for cymbals, which sounded brighter and livelier with the Compass.

 Fallout from the bagging fiasco is that they shipped without any of the cords and whatnot. (I'll find that stuff when I go home and open my Compass bags.) That's fine, I OK'd that with Cherry, but I'd like to try it with the jumpers, since all I can get is the bright setting now. Also, would like the jumpers for burn-in. Can I just get those jumpers at Radio Shack or something?_

 

RadioShack "May" Have them. I wpuld find a smaller Computer shop to get them at. A Mom and POP place. They look to be the same size as a lot of MB jumbers, the large ones. I would take the Compass there for size matching. They are Full size/Large Size Jumpers.

 Let us know if you think you hear a burn in difference. You are in a Unique position here.

 .


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 incidentally, my father's initial impression is that he'll listen to the Compass dac with his X-can v2 tube amp. He thinks that it's superior to the compass amp. I haven't compared, but I think that either burn-in will improve the compass amp, or my dad is being influenced by his extreme skepticism of computer audio, solid state, Chinese products, and the Compass's low price. He just can't seem to get over the idea that this is some sort of cheapo gimmick. However, he did say that the DAC is a massive improvement over his iMac's on-board. I set him up with an optical out of the Mac._

 

The irony here, of course, that the Compass replaced a "cheapo gimmick" from China, named the Zero. You might wish to tell him that the Nova caps used in it are from England. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Fallout from the bagging fiasco is that they shipped without any of the cords and whatnot. (I'll find that stuff when I go home and open my Compass bags.) That's fine, I OK'd that with Cherry, but I'd like to try it with the jumpers, since all I can get is the bright setting now. Also, would like the jumpers for burn-in. Can I just get those jumpers at Radio Shack or something? 
 

The jumpers are the same as those used on hard drives for your computer (PATA drives anyway) so they should be readily available. I'd just go into a computer store that does repairs and ask something like, if you'll give a few p will they give you a few drive jumpers and they'll probably oblige.


----------



## halcyon725

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check out the nice mids and lows too...my experience so far with the Compass Neutral and Earth with Beyer 880/990 has been very detailed, balanced, dynamic, robust, exciting...very "full-bodied" and honest..._

 

Just received the Compass on Friday and have been testing it with the DT880 2003 I have. I compared it to the Darkvoice 336i and the Compass more clear and resolving (although the lushness of the 336i still sounds good to me). I also didn't hear anything that sounded too bright on the high end.


----------



## driftingbunnies

Does anyone think the amp section of the compass should be good enough for a dt990/600 or would that warrant a tube amp? I have a ld2+ and wondering if I'd hear any improvements with the compass or will i still need to get like a jade audiotailor before it'll really sing.


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *halcyon725* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just received the Compass on Friday and have been testing it with the DT880 2003 I have. I compared it to the Darkvoice 336i and the Compass more clear and resolving (although the lushness of the 336i still sounds good to me). I also didn't hear anything that sounded too bright on the high end._

 

Interesting. With Earth neutral using my DT 880's the highs are quite bright and clear. At times a little too bright, but I like the very wide range between the lows and highs. With the LD III the sound was a little mellower but not as clear. Not worse, just mellower but also enjoyable. I like the Compass better. 48 hs burn in so far. I am curious to hear how they sound with the softer settings. I have the Moon but haven't tried it yet.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cecillia Bartoli's Mozart's arias. Sometimes her voice sounded a little shrill. Andrea Boccelli's voice also sounded a little sibilant...._

 

Gilency, which version do you recommend?

 Vienna Chamber Orchestra, 1992: Amazon.com: Cecilia Bartoli - Mozart Arias: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, György Fischer, Cecilia Bartoli: Music

 Vienna Concentus Musicus & Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, 1996: Amazon.com: Cecilia Bartoli - Mozart Arias: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Cecilia Bartoli, Edita Gruberova, Nikolaus Harnoncourt, Daniel Barenboim, Berliner Philharmoniker, Concentus musicus Wien, Lella Cuberli, Ferruccio Furlanetto, Yvonne Kenny: Music


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techfreakazoid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Take your time with the burn-in and acclimating your ears to the various setups.

 You're right, Kingwa did not have any beyer cans in his stable. It's good to hear a quality SS amp given the typical marriage of beyer cans with tube amps._

 

I still stayed in Neutral/Earth mode today. I have a busy week ahead, so I'll set the Compass to soft-2 and burn some hours on the Sun and Moon as well this week. Next weekend will be good for testing different configs..

 I hear ya, I've spent a lot of quality time w/ Beyers on tubes. Plugging into the SS A-GD gear was quite a pleasant surprise...


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gilency, which version do you recommend?

 Vienna Chamber Orchestra, 1992: Amazon.com: Cecilia Bartoli - Mozart Arias: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, György Fischer, Cecilia Bartoli: Music

 Vienna Concentus Musicus & Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, 1996: Amazon.com: Cecilia Bartoli - Mozart Arias: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Cecilia Bartoli, Edita Gruberova, Nikolaus Harnoncourt, Daniel Barenboim, Berliner Philharmoniker, Concentus musicus Wien, Lella Cuberli, Ferruccio Furlanetto, Yvonne Kenny: Music_

 

I have the first one. It is great. She has another CD singing Vivaldi which is great: Amazon.com: Cecilia Bartoli - The Vivaldi Album / Il Giardino Armonico: Antonio Vivaldi, Giovanni Antonini, Cecilia Bartoli, Il Giardino Armonico: Music
 The second one looks pretty good too. I really like Harnoncourt, Barenboin and of course, the Berliner Philharmoniker.


----------



## Nidhogg22

Hoow does the Moon compare to Earth Soft 1/2?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone think the amp section of the compass should be good enough for a dt990/600 or would that warrant a tube amp? I have a ld2+ and wondering if I'd hear any improvements with the compass or will i still need to get like a jade audiotailor before it'll really sing._

 

If you already have a good DAC, a C2-C would be more useful. I do recall someone comparing the Compass with a LD MKIII. There's also someone with 600 Ohm cans using a Compass with no problems.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the first one. It is great. She has another CD singing Vivaldi which is great: Amazon.com: Cecilia Bartoli - The Vivaldi Album / Il Giardino Armonico: Antonio Vivaldi, Giovanni Antonini, Cecilia Bartoli, Il Giardino Armonico: Music
 The second one looks pretty good too. I really like Harnoncourt, Barenboin and of course, the Berliner Philharmoniker._

 

Thanks a lot for the info. I ordered both Mozart's and the Vivaldi. Amazon has some good deals on quality used cd's, average cost was $5-$6 each shipped...


----------



## thelsuman

A question regarding use of Compass with powered speakers:

 I'm thinking of trying the Compass with my Cambridge SoundWorks Microworks speakers (http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/p...microworks.pdf). These speakers come with a volume control, but it looks pretty cheap. I was wondering if I'd be better off ditching the vol control & just using the Pre-amp output from Compass directly to the speakers (using RCA to mini y-cable). Of course, I could just try both options (Pre-amp out & DAC out), but it seems I'd then need to invest in a different type of Y cable for each option (RCA to Male mini vs. RCA to Female mini). Also, I was thinking of using the Blue Jeans BJC MSA-1 cable for this purpose; does this seem like overkill for this level of speaker? Thanks, & sorry to clog this forum with my questions


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks a lot for the info. I ordered both Mozart's and the Vivaldi. Amazon has some good deals on quality used cd's, average cost was $5-$6 each shipped..._

 

Wow! I did not know that. Thank you. More music to listen to with my Compass!


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering if I'd be better off ditching the vol control & just using the Pre-amp output from Compass directly to the speakers (using RCA to mini y-cable). Of course, I could just try both options (Pre-amp out & DAC out), but it seems I'd then need to invest in a different type of Y cable for each option (RCA to Male mini vs. RCA to Female mini). Also, I was thinking of using the Blue Jeans BJC MSA-1 cable for this purpose; does this seem like overkill for this level of speaker? Thanks, & sorry to clog this forum with my questions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wonder how easy it would be to get a 3.5mm mini to mini adaptor so you can test either option. The Compass will have, by far, the better volume control, but I'm not so sure there will be much difference with that kind of powered speaker.


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking of trying the Compass with my Cambridge SoundWorks Microworks speakers ..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder how easy it would be to get a 3.5mm mini to mini adaptor so you can test either option. The Compass will have, by far, the better volume control, but I'm not so sure there will be much difference with that kind of powered speaker._

 

I have a Klipsh Promedia 2.1 set, which looks to be pretty similar sort of thing. It's OK for what it is, but I know that I wouldn't bother with good cables for it. I suspect that it'd be better out of a preamp out, but Curra's advice is good. If it were me, I'd buy cheap versions of both Ys, but I like to have extra cables and adapters around. 

 On the other hand, I only play NPR and toddler music on mine, so I don't invest any effort on them. I might approach the whole thing differently if they were my primary speakers.


----------



## Starguard

*So guys, I discovered what the buzzing was.*

 It wasn't electromagnetic interference as most of you suggested.

 I believe someone suggested something about ungrounded sockets...? Well, turns out there is only one ungrounded socket in our house and there is a lamp plugged into it. When it's on... There's the buzzing!

 Is there anything I can do to fix this socket? (Unfortunately, the lamp is kind of an art piece)


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A question regarding use of Compass with powered speakers:

 I'm thinking of trying the Compass with my Cambridge SoundWorks Microworks speakers (http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/p...microworks.pdf). These speakers come with a volume control, but it looks pretty cheap. I was wondering if I'd be better off ditching the vol control & just using the Pre-amp output from Compass directly to the speakers (using RCA to mini y-cable). Of course, I could just try both options (Pre-amp out & DAC out), but it seems I'd then need to invest in a different type of Y cable for each option (RCA to Male mini vs. RCA to Female mini). Also, I was thinking of using the Blue Jeans BJC MSA-1 cable for this purpose; does this seem like overkill for this level of speaker? Thanks, & sorry to clog this forum with my questions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I use the Compass preamp with my Audioengine A2 powered speakers. It works really well. I think if the A2s had a volume control on the front of the powered speaker, I would use the DAC out of the Compass and just use the volume control on the speaker. But with the A2s, the volume is on the back of the speaker which is why I go with the preamp and use the volume control of the Compass.

 As for cables, I do use some nice hand-made Canare interconnects to connect the speakers to the Compass.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*So guys, I discovered what the buzzing was.*

 It wasn't electromagnetic interference as most of you suggested.

 I believe someone suggested something about ungrounded sockets...? Well, turns out there is only one ungrounded socket in our house and there is a lamp plugged into it. When it's on... There's the buzzing!

 Is there anything I can do to fix this socket? (Unfortunately, the lamp is kind of an art piece)_

 

If it's the only ungrounded outlet, then the romex wire going to the outlet should have the ground wire...it's not attached. Simply unscrew the outlet and connect the ground to the plug or to the box holding the plug (provided it is metal). Be sure to turn the power off to that outlet before working on it.


----------



## Ganderson

Been pouring over this thread and couldn't resist...

 I pulled the trigger on a Compass tonight!

 I plan on using it with my Denon D2000 using my iPod Touch as the source until I get some kind of server set up... possibly an Apple TV feeding the Compass via toslink.

 It will be replacing my DIY Grado RA-1 clone as my main amplification... I expect a dramatic difference. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I CAN'T WAIT!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*So guys, I discovered what the buzzing was.*

 It wasn't electromagnetic interference as most of you suggested.

 I believe someone suggested something about ungrounded sockets...? Well, turns out there is only one ungrounded socket in our house and there is a lamp plugged into it. When it's on... There's the buzzing!

 Is there anything I can do to fix this socket? (Unfortunately, the lamp is kind of an art piece)_

 


 A prime and weird example of how things we plug in to our outlets can inject crap back into the mains lines...gotta admit ...that lamp being a cause is a new one (for me)...is it using a compact flourescent by any chance ? If it is switch back to a normal incandescent and see if the noise disappears...the ballast in the CF bulb may be the culprit.

 The only time I get noise through my dedicated lines and conditioners is when the wife uses the blow dryer on her hair in the downstairs bathroom. The funny thing is it's on a separate GFI circuit that the dryer is plugged into and yet I get the blower motor noise through the system 1 floor below (on an entirely different isolated line)....but that is the only thing that makes it through, lucky for me......now to go hide that damned hair dryer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Zanth

Compact Flourescents are AWFUL for this type of noise. I have one in a reading lamp and had to remove it when listening to music so that I didn't get hash upstairs.


----------



## zeroibis

I wonder if you connected it to a powerfilter or even a surge protector/battery backup to provide cleaner power, you could get it to go away?


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow! I did not know that. Thank you. More music to listen to with my Compass!_

 

You're welcome. If you look below Amazon's main listed pricing, there are links to the Amazon marketplace vendors that usually offer very good deals on both new and used cd's for the same listed title...standard shipping is $2.98. So far I've bought around 50-60 cd's this way and only 2 didn't match their advertised quality. Those rare situations were corrected quickly, so no problem at all. I've experienced significant savings going this route. It's also a good low cost/risk way to check out new music rather than getting popped for ~$15+ for every experiment... 

 Sorry for the OT, but I thought this info might be useful to the other audio hounds cruising this thread...


----------



## Rinoue

Sorry to just cut in like this, I just received my compass today, got it hooked into my pc with usb cable and asio4all (will get the usb asio tomorrow) and then DAC rca out from the compass into my stereo system, it sounds absolutely amazing through winamp w/asio4all, but there is 1 problem I can't hear any sounds from websites now like youtube, I've tried all sorts of things but its not working. Help would be much appreciated. Thanks


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rinoue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to just cut in like this, I just received my compass today, got it hooked into my pc with usb cable and asio4all (will get the usb asio tomorrow) and then DAC rca out from the compass into my stereo system, it sounds absolutely amazing through winamp w/asio4all, but there is 1 problem I can't hear any sounds from websites now like youtube, I've tried all sorts of things but its not working. Help would be much appreciated. Thanks_

 

if u using asio4all, u need to pause or stop ur music player or else there will not be any sound from youtube etc..

 that was my experience from foobar with asio4all

 as for the usb asio driver, there will be static if u play the music and youtube together


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*So guys, I discovered what the buzzing was.*

 It wasn't electromagnetic interference as most of you suggested.

 I believe someone suggested something about ungrounded sockets...? Well, turns out there is only one ungrounded socket in our house and there is a lamp plugged into it. When it's on... There's the buzzing!

 Is there anything I can do to fix this socket? (Unfortunately, the lamp is kind of an art piece)_

 

Wasn't the interference going away after you cooled down the compass? And then it'd come back after a few minutes of use? Sounds like someone is messing around with you.


----------



## Rinoue

@squall343 

 ah yes I forgot to mention that I shut down my winamp and everything before watching you tube and still no sound was coming out, any other suggestions?


----------



## Rinoue

@squall343 

 ah yes I forgot to mention that I shut down my winamp and everything before watching you tube and still no sound was coming out, any other suggestions?


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rinoue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@squall343 

 ah yes I forgot to mention that I shut down my winamp and everything before watching you tube and still no sound was coming out, any other suggestions?_

 

check ur windows control panel setting

 check ur sound setting is pointing towards ur usb dac instead of ur onboard soundcard


----------



## Rinoue

@squall343 

 yup its set on usb audio device and nothing else, I wonder why only music from winamp or media player classic can play, but if its from a website such as youtube or nico nico douga, no sound...


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rinoue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@squall343 

 yup its set on usb audio device and nothing else, I wonder why only music from winamp or media player classic can play, but if its from a website such as youtube or nico nico douga, no sound..._

 

i can't think of anything else..

 maybe restart ur browser or comp..

 or else test on another browser


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rinoue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@squall343 

 yup its set on usb audio device and nothing else, I wonder why only music from winamp or media player classic can play, but if its from a website such as youtube or nico nico douga, no sound..._

 

Can't really think of a solution either. But I would also just try rebooting and see if that fixes anything.

 But if having USB output of Youtube videos and the like is important to you, it may be better not to install the USB-Audio driver. Because then you can really only get USB output with ASIO-capable software. (It's worth it for me though.)


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rinoue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to just cut in like this, I just received my compass today, got it hooked into my pc with usb cable and asio4all (will get the usb asio tomorrow) and then DAC rca out from the compass into my stereo system, it sounds absolutely amazing through winamp w/asio4all, but there is 1 problem I can't hear any sounds from websites now like youtube, I've tried all sorts of things but its not working. Help would be much appreciated. Thanks_

 

In fact I suggest you try the usb audio stuff (trial version) before you buy one and see if it works the way you like it. Although I will agree with Dro its worth having it just for music purposes, since I personally found it much better than asio4all.. but then thats me.


----------



## Bostonears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starguard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*So guys, I discovered what the buzzing was.*

 It wasn't electromagnetic interference as most of you suggested.

 I believe someone suggested something about ungrounded sockets...? Well, turns out there is only one ungrounded socket in our house and there is a lamp plugged into it. When it's on... There's the buzzing!

 Is there anything I can do to fix this socket? (Unfortunately, the lamp is kind of an art piece)_

 

In most cases it's easy to replace an ungrounded outlet with a grounded one, as long as there is something to ground to inside the outlet box. (Usually, the outlet box is metal, and a ground screw connects to that.) However, that may or may not be causing your buzzing.

 Have you tried moving the lamp to a different outlet that is already grounded to see if the buzzing goes away?

 Does the lamp happen to use a halogen bulb? Those emit nasty back waves down the AC line, especially if the lamp has a dimmer switch set to any position other than full on. In that situation, grounding the outlet won't help.


----------



## sling5s

How does the compass compare to corda symphony both as dac and amp.
 I'm hearing such amazing things from something so affordable. Makes wish I had saved money and gone with the compass. Any one have both or listened to both?

 thanks


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sling5s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the compass compare to corda symphony both as dac and amp.
 I'm hearing such amazing things from something so affordable. Makes wish I had saved money and gone with the compass. Any one have both or listened to both?

 thanks_

 

There aren't many Symphony-owners on head-fi.org, so I really doubt anyone has heard both. You could read my comparison of the Corda Opera (which was succeeded by the Symphony) and the Compass.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5452809-post3201.html

 Then you can extrapolate the results with the following points:
 -The Symphony has an amp that in every respect is a bit better than the Opera (but it's not a huge difference)
 -The DAC of the Symphony is considerably more elaborate and sophisticated than the DAC of the Opera

 Finally, I would like to add that my latest finding, using the Reference One as a source, is that the amp of the Corda Opera does on the whole scale much better with an improved source than the amp of the Compass does. (But what would you expect? We're talking about huge price differences between these two DAC/amps.)


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The A-GD synergy w/ the Beyer 250's is really strong._

 

I've noticed this myself, in the brief time I used the Compass with my 250's. Glad to know it's not just me. I'm desperate to have a Compass at work (where I use the 250's).

 I was thinking about getting a DAC19 and C2-C for home, and moving my Compass to the office, but I've decided to take things slow. So I've just sent the first email to order my second Compass


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bostonears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In most cases it's easy to replace an ungrounded outlet with a grounded one, as long as there is something to ground to inside the outlet box. (Usually, the outlet box is metal, and a ground screw connects to that.) However, that may or may not be causing your buzzing._

 

Be careful... in some older houses, the metal outlet boxes aren't grounded. You can test for ground using a standard circuit tester and using the box instead of the neutral. Putting in a grounded outlet when there is no ground can be dangerous at worst, misleading at best.


----------



## joewatch

I'm all for DIY, but in this case, you're probably better off getting an electrician to take care of the problem. A small price to pay to avoid electrocution.


----------



## ecclesand

I've been shocked plenty of times by 110v. It's not too bad...it definitely rattles your teeth!


----------



## Aleatoris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been shocked plenty of times by 110v. It's not too bad...it definitely rattles your teeth!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I swear my hair got a little curlier, too.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been shocked plenty of times by 110v. It's not too bad...it definitely rattles your teeth!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've been shocked more times than I can count also. All kinds of Voltages and amperage's. However, that being said, the older I get, the more I appreciate the fact that my heart is still beating! I've quit being so sloppy when I handle electricity now. All you have to do is be sloppy one time too many!

 .


----------



## Bostonears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Be careful... in some older houses, the metal outlet boxes aren't grounded. You can test for ground using a standard circuit tester and using the box instead of the neutral. Putting in a grounded outlet when there is no ground can be dangerous at worst, misleading at best._

 

Good advice.

 A key point is that Starguard should first identify whether the buzzing problem is due to the outlet or the lamp, which he can easily do just by moving the lamp to a different outlet. If the lamp still buzzes on another outlet that is grounded, there's no point in him trying to ground the ungrounded one.


----------



## DiscHead

Anyone else out there grooving to their new Compass with Beyer DT770 Pro's? I've got 240 hours plus on Earth Neutral and this combo is really sounding good! The detail and separation of instrumentation are blowing me away.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been shocked plenty of times by 110v. It's not too bad...it definitely rattles your teeth!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was zapped by 20,000v+ when testing a spark plug in college, with a faulty HT lead. My arm flung out faster than I've ever seen. lurching the spark plug and lead into the wall. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## nkk

On the HDAM selling webiste, it says:

 e: 
 OPA-EARTH Dual OPA USD22.5/1 unit (24*24*40)
 OPA-EARTH Single OPA USD12/1 unit 

 OPA-MOON Dual OPA USD25/1 unit (24*24*40)
 OPA-MOON Single OPA USD13.5/1 unit 

 OPA-SUN Dual OPA USD30/1 unit (24*24*40)
 OPA-SUN Single OPA USD16/1 unit 

 What is the differense between a single and dual OPA?

 Thanks,
 Nkk


----------



## idunno

nkk: this is somewhat of an oversimplification, but basically it's single or dual channel, as in mono or stereo. The Compass uses dual channel HDAM or IC.

 edit: but if you tell Cherry or Kingwa that the HDAM is for use in the Compass, they'll sort it all out for you.


----------



## Nidhogg22

Woot it's been shipped.


----------



## doping panda

Does anyone know if audio-gd updates their consignment page or sends out emails first. I ordered a Compass two weeks ago and there's a person with my name, country, and shipping service on the new consignment list, but I haven't received an email yet. It's pretty safe to assume it's mine because the chances of someone buying a Compass with my first name, living in the same country, and buying it around the same time as me is pretty low, but I just want to make sure before I get too excited.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if audio-gd updates their consignment page or sends out emails first. I ordered a Compass two weeks ago and there's a person with my name, country, and shipping service on the new consignment list, but I haven't received an email yet. It's pretty safe to assume it's mine because the chances of someone buying a Compass with my first name, living in the same country, and buying it around the same time as me is pretty low, but I just want to make sure before I get too excited._

 

The shipping page is updated once the packages are send to the DHL office. You'll get an email with the tracking number once Audio-gd receives those numbers, which can be a day later.


----------



## op2003

Mine is also listed on the consignment page 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and i haven't got a mail yet.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The shipping page is updated once the packages are send to the DHL office. You'll get an email with the tracking number once Audio-gd receives those numbers, which can be a day later._

 

Okay, thanks. I was so excited I got ice cream to celebrate. When both my Lambda setup and my Compass get here, I'll be in for a serious ride.


----------



## op2003

I know exactly how you are feeling


----------



## sachu

ANyone in the Portland oregon area with a compass or any audio GD stuff..? I would love to have a listen.


----------



## jlaakso

This might have been covered in this thread earlier, sorry for not wanting to read through 450 pages 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Currently I am running my HD600s with computer USB -> MuFi V-DAC -> Graham Slee Novo. Mostly FLACs an mp3@320. Sound is very "Senn-like", awesome bass extension, very detailed and balanced mids and highs are there too. They sound a bit muffled though. Cranking the volume to "my head explodes" -level helps a bit with the muffling, but gives me headache 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So the two questions are:

 1) would Compass go well with HD600s and help with the muffled sound?
 2) has anyone compared Compass to GS Novo and what are the impressions?

 if this is covered already, You can also point me the post number or correct thread


----------



## Skibumef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if audio-gd updates their consignment page or sends out emails first. I ordered a Compass two weeks ago and there's a person with my name, country, and shipping service on the new consignment list, but I haven't received an email yet. It's pretty safe to assume it's mine because the chances of someone buying a Compass with my first name, living in the same country, and buying it around the same time as me is pretty low, but I just want to make sure before I get too excited._

 

There were once three people from my same country with my name (it's not a common one) listed on the consignment page at a time when it would have made sense for my unit to be heading out- none of them were me. Sorry, it's not you on the consignment page. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You'll get an email when it is.


----------



## op2003

Just got an email from Cherry that they actually sent my Compass today, so no need to worry.


----------



## squall343

Look like they got a huge shipment of compass out yesterday


----------



## QQQ

How exactly "sound DIY" realized? What those jumpers do? Commutate different resistors adding to output impedance to vary sound? I'm quite confused by it and can't say i like this function... Care to elaborate?

 Also, it's interesting how Compass compare to Meier Cantate..


----------



## QQQ

double post


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *QQQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How exactly "sound DIY" realized? What those jumpers do? Commutate different resistors adding to output impedance to vary sound? I'm quite confused by it and can't say i like this function... Care to elaborate?

 Also, it's interesting how Compass compare to Meier Cantate.._

 

Quite a few popular headphones, such as Grados and Beyers, people find that the treble is fatiguing and irritating, so the soft settings were added. IIRC connecting the jumpers adds caps into the signal path. It's not my kind of thing either, but it's a lot easier for people in this budget range to do than spend a lot of time and money buying and selling headphones and gear to find satisfaction.


----------



## driftingbunnies

I have my tracking number but it doesn't look like any info has been updated for it yet. Does that sound about right for the rest of the people that got their numbers?


----------



## op2003

Yes. At least EMS is quite slow with updating their live-tracking.


----------



## joewatch

Anybody else enjoying Sun V2 in their Compass? I listen to rock, funk & electronica on Grado SR80, and Sun gets my heart racing the most. It's also great for action films!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have my tracking number but it doesn't look like any info has been updated for it yet. Does that sound about right for the rest of the people that got their numbers?_

 

There's a decent chance you will have it in hand before anything useful shows up on tracking.


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sachu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ANyone in the Portland oregon area with a compass or any audio GD stuff..? I would love to have a listen._

 

I'm up in the North Seattle area, if you ever get up here. I just have the Compass running off a Dell laptop USB with my Denon D2000's.

 Mark


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quite a few popular headphones, such as Grados and Beyers, people find that the treble is fatiguing and irritating, so the soft settings were added. IIRC connecting the jumpers adds caps into the signal path. It's not my kind of thing either, but it's a lot easier for people in this budget range to do than spend a lot of time and money buying and selling headphones and gear to find satisfaction._

 

Which setting uses the most direct path - is it Bright since it doesn't engage any jumpers?


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skibumef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There were once three people from my same country with my name (it's not a common one) listed on the consignment page at a time when it would have made sense for my unit to be heading out- none of them were me. Sorry, it's not you on the consignment page. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You'll get an email when it is._

 

No, it actually is me. They just emailed me right now about it. They probably closed shop yesterday before they could send out all the emails. It's a pretty big relief to know that the one shipping is actually mine and not someone with my first name who ordered around the same time as me. Here's hoping I get to listen to it before leaving for the weekend.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's a decent chance you will have it in hand before anything useful shows up on tracking._

 

Is EMS that slow to update their tracking info?
 Has anyone received any info on their tracking number? I've been waiting for mine. Cherry informed that it was being shipped the 5th because the express was working that day.
 Does anyone know what the express is?


----------



## pete~

Express means EMS express service.


----------



## driftingbunnies

my DHL number still doesn't show anything. That's strange. Last time they sent me a number it was already showing that it arrived in OH.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joewatch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody else enjoying Sun V2 in their Compass? I listen to rock, funk & electronica on Grado SR80, and Sun gets my heart racing the most. It's also great for action films!_

 

Does your Sun V2 look like the OPA in the center of Curra's pic below? The "Sun V2" I received with my Compass has similiar components, but does not have the glowing diodes in the middle. The middle diodes on mine are more like a block "C" shape with wire legs, but no bulb-like lighted/glowing portion at all....


----------



## Oggranak

MINE SHIPPED TODAY! YIPPEE! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




























 I'm pretty screwing excited, I've never had a full-sized amp or DAC before, and I have two big 250 ohm pairs of headphones sitting on my desk just _begging_ for an amp.


----------



## joewatch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does your Sun V2 look like the OPA in the center of Curra's pic below? The "Sun V2" I received with my Compass has similiar components, but does not have the glowing diodes in the middle. The middle diodes on mine are more like a block "C" shape with wire legs, but no bulb-like lighted/glowing portion at all....




_

 

Mine is the same as yours - glass sealed diodes, not LEDs.


----------



## MysteryMachine

Where is the webpage people like doping panda are seeing the orders?

 I know it will be a while since I ordered mine last friday.... Trying to be patient - can't wait to see what I am missing since I'd just been running my HD580s off my Soundblaster Audigy 2 platinum EX with no amp.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MysteryMachine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where is the webpage people like doping panda are seeing the orders?_

 

Here's the link to the A-GD consignment/delivery page: ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 I received the tracking numbers(DHL in my case) from Cherry via email after my delivery info was posted on the A-GD page.

 Like many other people, when it came to actual shipment tracking my DHL status page didn't update after leaving Hong Kong until I signed for it here in the USA. That's DHL's issue, not Audio-gd, and it was really no issue at all. By most accounts the gear is getting delivered in a very timely manner.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joewatch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is the same as yours - glass sealed diodes, not LEDs._

 

Thanks for the info, that's interesting. Does anyone know when/why the Sun V2 changed? I'm not going to change the top of the unit, I don't care about the bling factor. I'm just curious if there are sonic differences to the original Sun V2...


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is EMS that slow to update their tracking info?
 Has anyone received any info on their tracking number? I've been waiting for mine. Cherry informed that it was being shipped the 5th because the express was working that day.
 Does anyone know what the express is?_

 

I rec'd an email that mine shipped April 29th via EMS. Per the tracking it arrived in Vancouver today. You can also check on Canada Post's website.


----------



## calvinjai

About how long does it take after payment before the compass ships?? I see my name and country on the consignment page, but i don't think its me since i haven't received any email yet. I ordered mine on April 25.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *calvinjai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About how long does it take after payment before the compass ships?? I see my name and country on the consignment page, but i don't think its me since i haven't received any email yet. I ordered mine on April 25._

 

It should be about two weeks. If you ordered on the 25th, it could very well be you. I would just email audio-gd to see if that Compass is yours. I didn't receive confirmation that my Compass shipped until I asked them about it.


----------



## driftingbunnies

Man something is wrong with DHL this time. I remember when compasses were shipping on monday, people would get their compasses on thursday or friday. Right now all the tracking info says is shipment acknowledged. It hasn't even left anything!


----------



## Currawong

I read previously that the DHL web site updates were slow.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should be about two weeks. If you ordered on the 25th, it could very well be you. I would just email audio-gd to see if that Compass is yours. I didn't receive confirmation that my Compass shipped until I asked them about it._

 

I ordered mine on the 19th and it was shipped on the 5th and I had to email A-G yesterday to have my tracking number. The waiting time before it ships is usually 2 weeks but there is a good chance that your got shipped on the 5th also.


----------



## driftingbunnies

So I guess even though Audio-gd claimed that they had shipped it on the 4th, it was really shipped today. It says shipment picked up 5/7 in Hong Kong.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Horse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's wrong with this "Currawong" guy? He goes around tormenting people for supposedly being a certain (guilty of what?) andrea?_

 

You just can't resist painting a CrossHair on your forehead can you?

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I guess even though Audio-gd claimed that they had shipped it on the 4th, it was really shipped today. It says shipment picked up 5/7 in Hong Kong._

 

Actually the claim is correct, if you check Audio GD isn't located in Hong Kong - when he says it was shipped on 5th ( if I am not wrong), it means its left it factory for GuangZhou DHL office which is 60 kms from his factory (does that because he gets cheaper shipping rates and he passes that benefit to buyers). From Guang Zhou DHL office it travels to Hong Kong DHL office where the tracking starts, so it takes time to reach there, and also DHL is pretty late in updating their websites, the facts are very much all over the thread.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Horse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's wrong with this "Currawong" guy? He goes around tormenting people for supposedly being a certain (guilty of what?) andrea?_

 

As far as I know, Nothing wrong with him at all... (but then I guess I should let him reply..)


----------



## ecclesand

For those of you out there who have heard all the Audio-gd HDAMs, would you say the Sun V2 was as detailed as the Earth? I already know the Moon has less detail (at least to my ears) than the Earth HDAM.

 @driftingbunnies...the same happened with my shipment. I still got it in 3 days from the time it showed on the DHL tracking.


----------



## calvinjai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered mine on the 19th and it was shipped on the 5th and I had to email A-G yesterday to have my tracking number. The waiting time before it ships is usually 2 weeks but there is a good chance that your got shipped on the 5th also._

 

Thanks, i recieved my email this morning, guess i was just anxious and impatient


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those*/*89076HGF?><mNBV,MCZ of you out there who have heard all the Audio-gd HDAMs, would you say the Sun V2 was as detailed as the Earth? I already know the Moon has less detail (at least to my ears) than the Earth HDAM._

 

Yeah I'd say the Sun is as detailed...it's an illusion your getting _more_ detail from the Sun because of the voicing. It highlights those regions (bass and treble) for better or worse (depending on the source material). IMO of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS : DB I hope you get your Compass ASAP...you've waited an awful long time for it.


----------



## driftingbunnies

@ecclesand...so that means i'll get it on saturday? hopefully? sorry just super impatient. i've been waiting since 3/14 lol


----------



## joewatch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those of you out there who have heard all the Audio-gd HDAMs, would you say the Sun V2 was as detailed as the Earth? I already know the Moon has less detail (at least to my ears) than the Earth HDAM._

 

Of the 3, Earth has the most detail to my ears.

 The way I hear it, Moon is like sitting way in the back of concert hall. Some loss of detail in the quieter parts of the music. But I'm happy to be there to listen to the music, and nobody will bother me. I can smoke a joint and relax. Good for background music while I'm working. 

 Earth is like sitting in the middle rows. If I were a music critic, that's where I would want to sit. I can hear every note and pick out all the instruments. I can tell if it's a good recording or a bad recording. But a little too sterile to me for regular listening. 

 Sun is like sitting in the front rows. It's the most exciting place to be. Because the sound is brighter, there is going to be some loss of detail in the louder parts of the music. But it sounds more like being at a live concert than in the sterile studio environment it was recorded in.


----------



## obentou

Is it normal for Audio-gd to reply so slowly? 

 I sent them an email yesterday around 2am HK time and they still haven't replied after a day. So much for wanting my business, lol.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it normal for Audio-gd to reply so slowly? 

 I sent them an email yesterday around 2am HK time and they still haven't replied after a day. So much for wanting my business, lol._

 

Did you receive the auto-reply from them?


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joewatch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of the 3, Earth has the most detail to my ears.

 The way I hear it, Moon is like sitting way in the back of concert hall. Some loss of detail in the quieter parts of the music. But I'm happy to be there to listen to the music, and nobody will bother me. I can smoke a joint and relax. Good for background music while I'm working. 

 Earth is like sitting in the middle rows. If I were a music critic, that's where I would want to sit. I can hear every note and pick out all the instruments. I can tell if it's a good recording or a bad recording. But a little too sterile to me for regular listening. 

 Sun is like sitting in the front rows. It's the most exciting place to be. Because the sound is brighter, there is going to be some loss of detail in the louder parts of the music. But it sounds more like being at a live concert than in the sterile studio environment it was recorded in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Im really liking the moon for some live recordings. Blues, Dave Matthews, John Mayer, John Legend, it sounds great.


----------



## obentou

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you receive the auto-reply from them?_

 

Hmm nope, I emailed to this address:

audio-gd@126.com

 I requested a shipping quote to Canada for the total package and a mark down of the package to $20. No reply yet!

 Oh by the way, any fellow Canadians or Americans who bought this get hit with customs fees?


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm nope, I emailed to this address:

audio-gd@126.com

 I requested a shipping quote to Canada for the total package and a mark down of the package to $20. No reply yet!

 Oh by the way, any fellow Canadians or Americans who bought this get hit with customs fees?_

 

Honestly, I would try again, or check your SPAM folder. I NEVER sent an email to that address that DIDN'T receive an auto response followed by a real response from Cherry or Kingwa shortly after. I am banking that they either didn't get the email in the first place or your reply is sitting in SPAM.


----------



## ScottieB

If you email them several times in one day I think the auto-replies stop. Otherwise, if you didn't get one they probably didn't get it.


----------



## obentou

Hey you guys are right. I sent in another email and I received a auto-reply from Kingwa.

 Pretty damn weird. I assume they must have got the email now, but it's freakin' 2 am in HK now. Damnit, guess I'll have to wait for a reply tonight.

 Thanks a lot, I appreciate the help


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm nope, I emailed to this address:

audio-gd@126.com

 I requested a shipping quote to Canada for the total package and a mark down of the package to $20. No reply yet!

 Oh by the way, any fellow Canadians or Americans who bought this get hit with customs fees?_

 

if i am not wrong, the most they will mark down is to 100+ since the bagger incident

 if they mark down too low, they cannot claim much insurance if something happen during the shipment


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey you guys are right. I sent in another email and I received a auto-reply from Kingwa.

 Pretty damn weird. I assume they must have got the email now, but it's freakin' 2 am in HK now. Damnit, guess I'll have to wait for a reply tonight.

 Thanks a lot, I appreciate the help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If you get a response, let me know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I'm becoming convinced of these as well to become my ideal solution for the K701.

 Anything around $300 CDN ballpark and I'll be sold.


----------



## obentou

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you get a response, let me know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I'm becoming convinced of these as well to become my ideal solution for the K701.

 Anything around $300 CDN ballpark and I'll be sold._

 

Hey yeah I will!

 I calculated a preliminary quote by myself and it is going to cost me close to $400 CDN... $258 USD + $49 USD, + 4% paypal that they want. On top of customs fees if they are going to mark it above $100.

 I have to convince them to mark it below $60 CDN and as a gift, that way I won't get slammed with so many fees. 

 What is this bagger incident? If they won't mark it down for me I probably won't order, it is going to cost way too much unfortunately.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the info, that's interesting. Does anyone know when/why the Sun V2 changed? I'm not going to change the top of the unit, I don't care about the bling factor. I'm just curious if there are sonic differences to the original Sun V2..._

 

x2 ... Mine has the LED. Using LED's in a circuit doesn't make sense to me unless its used as an indicator. Anyone knows why it was LED before in SUN and whats the difference in performance with normal diode SUN ?


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey yeah I will!

 I calculated a preliminary quote by myself and it is going to cost me close to $400 CDN... $258 USD + $49 USD, + 4% paypal that they want. On top of customs fees if they are going to mark it above $100.

 I have to convince them to mark it below $60 CDN and as a gift, that way I won't get slammed with so many fees. 
_

 

Ouch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess good equipment don't come cheap. Thinking either this or EF1's, but that's just an amp (though bithead is a good DAC there is surely room for improvement). Price may convince me to get the EF1's instead, though. Either case, let me know!


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is this bagger incident? If they won't mark it down for me I probably won't order, it is going to cost way too much unfortunately._

 

Bagger incident - Some of the Compasses (including mine) shipped to U.S via DHL, eventhough originally packed in boxes by AudioGD, ended up in 'plastic bags' and was delivered with shipping damage (some cases severe with damaged unit, some cases just cosmetic damage) . Seems to have been traced to some 3rd part logistic agent between AudioGD and DHL who transferred the boxed compasses to bags before delivering to DHL and pocketed the difference in shipping charge due to the reduced weight. Since Kingwa used to declare the value of the shipment low, I guess, he had problems in claims and receiving compensation and thats why he had to increase the declaration value for further shipments. From the Customer service point of view, they dealt with the issue efficiently and sent replacement Compasses as fast as they could (I think every bagger except 'db' has received their replacements) .


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ecclesand...so that means i'll get it on saturday? hopefully? sorry just super impatient. i've been waiting since 3/14 lol_

 

Hmmm...I don't know if DHL delivers on Saturdays. Mine showed on the A-gd consignment page for 4/26/09. Per the DHL tracking, it didn't show picked up until after noon on 4/27/09. It was delivered on 4/29/09. That's fast!

 DHL still sucks though.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess good equipment don't come cheap. Thinking either this or EF1's, but that's just an amp (though bithead is a good DAC there is surely room for improvement). Price may convince me to get the EF1's instead, though. Either case, let me know!_

 

The price of a Compass($324.48 USD via DHL) and a EF1($319) shipped to the US is roughly the same. I'm not sure how much customs will cost though. The price of the two units should be roughly the same unless customs really makes that much of a difference so you should just choose the unit you want more.

 A person you should talk to is theBigD. He has experience with both the EF1 and the Compass.


----------



## obentou

Ah I see. I don't plan to use DHL anyways. I have trusted EMS for the longest time and will use them over DHL any day.


----------



## edselfordfong

Wanted to report that after a week of burn-in, my father has changed his mind about the compass amp. He had originally though that his X-can v2 was decidedly superior and that he'd use it with the dac (driving HD 650s). Now he feels that the compass amp is its equal and that he'll use that instead.

 I think its a combination of the burn-in and his ears becoming accustomed to the Compass's sound.


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The price of a Compass($324.48 USD via DHL) and a EF1($319) shipped to the US is roughly the same. I'm not sure how much customs will cost though. The price of the two units should be roughly the same unless customs really makes that much of a difference so you should just choose on the unit you want more._

 

EF1's I can get a little cheaper since I'm thinking on the used one that's out on the FS forum right now from tonsosnot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can avoid the custom fees that way too since it can be declared low (got charged zilch when I got the K701 and AD700, both from US with USPS). This is pretty much K701 specific for me and since EF-1's synergy with it is apparently good, I'm leaning towards that. Then again, Compass does have a DAC and is also designed using K701's as one of the headphones (and is also reportedly good with it) so I'm still in the debating stage.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah I see. I don't plan to use DHL anyways. I have trusted EMS for the longest time and will use them over DHL any day._

 

Well, then I guess you'd have some money to get yourself some ice cream.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wanted to report that after a week of burn-in, my father has changed his mind about the compass amp. He had originally though that his X-can v2 was decidedly superior and that he'd use it with the dac (driving HD 650s). Now he feels that the compass amp is its equal and that he'll use that instead.

 I think its a combination of the burn-in and his ears becoming accustomed to the Compass's sound._

 

Give it another week and see if he says his X-Can v2 is decidedly inferior to the Compass amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EF1's I can get a little cheaper since I'm thinking on the used one that's out on the FS forum right now from tonsosnot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can avoid the custom fees that way too since it can be declared low (got charged zilch when I got the K701 and AD700, both from US with USPS). This is pretty much K701 specific for me and since EF-1's synergy with it is apparently good, I'm leaning towards that. Then again, Compass does have a DAC and is also designed using K701's as one of the headphones (and is also reportedly good with it) so I'm still in the debating stage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Going used is definitely a more cost effective solution. The EF-1 will cost you less than a Compass for sure then. That is a tough one. I was considering getting an EF-1 and another DAC instead of a Compass as well, but I decided to get a Compass. The clincher for me was the pre-amp function. I'm contemplating a jump into speakers over the summer if my apartment would be suitable for it. Gotta make sure I have the room though and I also need to learn how to use a jigsaw and a soldering iron.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey yeah I will!

 I calculated a preliminary quote by myself and it is going to cost me close to $400 CDN... $258 USD + $49 USD, + 4% paypal that they want. On top of customs fees if they are going to mark it above $100.

 I have to convince them to mark it below $60 CDN and as a gift, that way I won't get slammed with so many fees. 

 What is this bagger incident? If they won't mark it down for me I probably won't order, it is going to cost way too much unfortunately._

 

Just an honest question. We all dont like paying all sorts of charges on top, however what are your thoughts on marking down? What are peoples thoughts here? It may well minimise customs charges but on the other hand I am sure it is an illegal practice.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just an honest question. We all dont like paying all sorts of charges on top, however what are your thoughts on marking down? What are peoples thoughts here? It may well minimise customs charges but on the other hand I am sure it is an illegal practice._

 

Well I think asking for a set amount is taking advantage of the vendor who is already selling the thing at cost and giving a really good break on express air service...add onto that a declaration well below the actual value........IMO at least. Read on...

 There is reasonable requests and unreasonable...asking something to be marked at $20 / gift is unreasonable...since A-GD is one assuming 100% of the risk in case it disappears or gets damaged in transit. The bagger incident already cost A-GD a small fortune....let's not make things worse by getting greedy.

 Peete.


----------



## obentou

I also find it unreasonable but if the seller agrees then I usually assume responsibility since I requested the specific mark-down. Of course, if the seller wants to insure it at its full cost, then either I take the customs hit or not purchase it at all!

 I bought a laptop off eBay and of course I didn't want that to be marked down. I bought it insured for its full value and had to pay ~$150 in customs fees.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I think asking for a set amount is taking advantage of the vendor who is already selling the thing at cost and giving a really good break on express air service...add onto that a declaration well below the actual value........IMO at least. Read on...

 There is reasonable requests and unreasonable...asking something to be marked at $20 / gift is unreasonable...since A-GD is one assuming 100% of the risk in case it disappears or gets damaged in transit. The bagger incident already cost A-GD a small fortune....let's not make things worse by getting greedy.

 Peete._

 

But my point is not about whether it's reasonable or not. It's illegal to ask them to mark the price down to minimise customs charging. I am sure the same applies worldwide.


----------



## les_garten

It's Good to understand every bodies' Motivations here.

 Kingwa has a Motivation for marking the declaration down also. 

 It affects the bottom line of the sale, and the buyer and the seller knows it. As evidenced by the current conversation. If he marks a REF1 at $1390 those Guys in Cannuck Land and the EU are gonna get nailed and he'll lose sales.

 Luckily in the US of A, we are extremely bad at collecting this. This may change for us as well. The "Government" just hired 800 more IRS agents. Wait till they figure out they are losing on Custom's duties! Gonna get ugly fast for overseas vendors.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But my point is not about whether it's reasonable or not. It's illegal to ask them to mark the price down to minimise customs charging. I am sure the same applies worldwide._

 

I'm sure it is also. You have to sign the declaration with penalties outlined in the US to export anything.

 .


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I think asking for a set amount is taking advantage of the vendor who is already selling the thing at cost and giving a really good break on express air service...add onto that a declaration well below the actual value........IMO at least. Read on...

 There is reasonable requests and unreasonable...asking something to be marked at $20 / gift is unreasonable...since A-GD is one assuming 100% of the risk in case it disappears or gets damaged in transit. The bagger incident already cost A-GD a small fortune....let's not make things worse by getting greedy.

 Peete._

 

I suppose there'd be little harm in the buyer requesting Kingwa declare the value as $20, but only on the basis that the buyer forfeited any rights regarding claims for damage in transit...

 No idea whether Kingwa would be keen on that idea. To be fair, he should declare the full value, and the buyer should pay their fair share toward the needs and upkeep of their country. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl.


----------



## obentou

OK, I managed to convince Audio-gd to mark it down. But with this I told them I would assume full responsibility for any damage caused.

 The cost will be around $372 CAD in the case there are no customs charges... pretty steep. I wish the CAD were stronger.


----------



## zeroibis

I wonder if my money would be better spent on having the upgraded power cable or ordering the moon and sun with the earth. I know the better power cable will give me better sound, but the sun and moon will give me different sound that I may or may not like....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, I managed to convince Audio-gd to mark it down. But with this I told them I would assume full responsibility for any damage caused.

 The cost will be around $372 CAD in the case there are no customs charges... pretty steep. I wish the CAD were stronger._

 

Steep ?

 You had better not go anywhere near the high end forum then.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suppose there'd be little harm in the buyer requesting Kingwa declare the value as $20, but only on the basis that the buyer forfeited any rights regarding claims for damage in transit...

 No idea whether Kingwa would be keen on that idea. To be fair, he should declare the full value, and the buyer should pay their fair share toward the needs and upkeep of their country. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

It's like looking a gift horse in the mouth and saying "is that all ?" 

 Maybe I'm making too much out of nothing...I've said my piece.

 Peete.


----------



## obentou

^ Naw, I find it is a big deal too if the buyer requests the package to be underdeclared and wants compensation for damage. I find this unfair and I assume responsibility if I ask the seller to mark it down.

 And well, [un]fortunately I am not overly crazy about high-end gear! The hobby is way too taxing. I am personally looking for the "sweet spot" for a price
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




erformance ratio so I wouldn't really delve into Stax systems, nice tube-amps, or etc. I simply wouldn't appreciate the minute improvements in sound as you go up in price so I don't think it is worth it in my eyes.

 Being a student too, there's no way I can afford it either so meh, lots of deterrents anyways. I'll be happy with a DAC/AMP and a headphone of choice.


----------



## Shizdan

Hey Guys I have been Looking at this Dac/Amp for awhile and had a few questions..

 1 - How long does it take from when you order it to when it gets to your house? (I'm from the U.s)

 2 - Since I'm pretty new to audio, what is the best OPA to start with?


----------



## punk_guy182

You can get that info over there: ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## joewatch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if my money would be better spent on having the upgraded power cable or ordering the moon and sun with the earth. I know the better power cable will give me better sound, but the sun and moon will give me different sound that I may or may not like...._

 

I would go with whatever will give you better sound, but that being said, how do you know the upgraded power cable will do that?


----------



## Shizdan

I did get some info but I'd like to get some from people who have received theres and hear their input. Thank you though!


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did get some info but I'd like to get some from people who have received theres and hear their input. Thank you though!_

 

I ordered mine on the 19th and it was shipepd on the 5th. I haven't received it yet but I can tell you that Kingwa is really busy sorting out the huge amount of orders for this amp. So yes there is a delay but you will eventually receive it if you decide to order it. All issues regrdaing mishandling of the package by DHL have been adressed so i don't see why you would not receive your package. Kingwa is very receptive in case you have a received a default item. He will replace it. Just email him if you have more questions.


----------



## moodyrn

I'm now approaching the 200 hour mark, and I'm very pleased at the sound I'm getting with my er4s. I remember reading a thread some time ago about the best headphones you own. A lot of people rated them no.1. These included people who had the hd580/600s, hd650s, k701s, and dt880s. At the time I was wondering what these people were smoking. Don't get me wrong, up until now I loved my er4s. They are the best iems I ever heard, but I didn't think they were as good as my hd580s or my sextett lps. They were however always better than my dt770/80s. Now I've changed my mind. The compass has great synergy with these. I still greatly prefer my mingda mc84 with all my of other cans, but the er4s never went to well with any of the tube amps I've owned. The only solid states I have right now is a little dot mkI portable, and a motu 828. With the compass, I like them better than both my hd580s and sextett lps. Another nice bonus. The compass has allowed me to rediscover my er4s.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And well, [un]fortunately I am not overly crazy about high-end gear! The hobby is way too taxing. I am personally looking for the "sweet spot" for a price
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





erformance ratio so I wouldn't really delve into Stax systems, nice tube-amps, or etc. I simply wouldn't appreciate the minute improvements in sound as you go up in price so I don't think it is worth it in my eyes._

 

Where have I heard this one before.... ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I had a dollar for every person I've heard say this I'd be buying my gear with other peoples money year in year out...once you hear a glimpse of how things could be or should be it's tough to stand pat or take a step back.....

 I seem to recall Phewl saying this exact same thing a year ago...guess what he has now ? 



















 A STAX system 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And he's loving it ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 On another note entirely I hooked up some speakers to an old Carver M200T amp of mine (yanked out of storage and cleaned it up inside and out this evening) to give the Compass preamp section a desktop workout using some small 2 way Klipsch pro media monitors in a near field arrangement. Got the surprise of my life...the little garbage speakers aren't half bad properly amped although some vintage JBLs will take their place once I have the stands finished.

 Quite good results despite preconceived notions leading me to think this couldn't be very good. The little Carver (120 W RMS) isn't exactly little but the Compass/Carver combo is pretty darn good....used the Klipsch sub with them...need to get a better sub in there when the JBL's are ready to go. Have a vintage sub (upgraded with new driver and plate amp) ready to go !

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

SQ will get even better moodryn...your only 1/3 of the way through burn in sorry to say.

 Peete.


----------



## obentou

^ LOL good story Peete. I know for sure I won't be going that route... well, about 99% sure!

 Pulled the trigger on the Compass tonight. Also in the progress of trading my iBasso D10 for a pair of AKG K701's. Hopefully this little combo will either match or best my current D10 + ESW10JPN combination. If it does, the ESW10JPN's are going up on the BST.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, I'm looking forward to see just how good this thing is going to end up being.


----------



## Crikey

Hi
 I need a little help here. How do you guys get music to play through the compass over usb? Should my computer automatically recognise the usb? 

 I'm really sorry but i've never done this before. I just got my compass and now I just can't wait to hear it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Thx

 [edit]: nvm, problem's been fixed


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And well, [un]fortunately I am not overly crazy about high-end gear! The hobby is way too taxing. I am personally looking for the "sweet spot" for a price
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




erformance ratio so I wouldn't really delve into Stax systems, nice tube-amps, or etc. I simply wouldn't appreciate the minute improvements in sound as you go up in price so I don't think it is worth it in my eyes._

 

A Stax system really isn't that expensive if you go used though; it probably would cost even less than a nice dynamic setup. The prices have been going up lately, but before it wouldn't be too uncommon to get a Lambda and a transformer box for about $300USD, which is less than the cost of a ESW10JPN. You'd have to get a speaker amp for it, but a T-amp or a used speaker amp isn't going to cost that much. Then, you can take the money would have spent on a dynamic headphone amp and save it or put it into buying a better DAC.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I seem to recall Phewl saying this exact same thing a year ago...guess what he has now ? 



















 A STAX system 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And he's loving it ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Exactly what is happening to me. I remember telling myself that I would never buy a headphone amp or get into Stax and now I have a Compass in transit and possibly a Stax system in transit as well. It's all good though since I'll probably be loving the sounds I'm going to hear.


----------



## koruki

My one shows to be signed and received and waiting for me in hotel lobby, but something about friday evening I just wanna sit around at home and not move haha.


----------



## zedevan

thanks for emptying my wallet head-fi, just bought one of these, hopefully i get it soon and it will treat me well for years to come!


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the annual estimate ate the tension?


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's Good to understand every bodies' Motivations here.
 ._

 

Turn off the lights, its over.


----------



## Bostonears

It is totally inappropriate for a buyer to expect a seller to risk legal ramifications against his business by declaring anything other than the full value of the item shipped.


----------



## oldschool

Do you also need to burn-in the Compass for each connection type - USB, Opt, Coax?


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koruki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My one shows to be signed and received and waiting for me in hotel lobby, but something about friday evening I just wanna sit around at home and not move haha._

 

GO TO IT!!!! trust me, the complete absence of sound before you push play is worth it. (the getting up part, not the entire cost of the product)


----------



## arcer63

The compass is running quite a bit warmer with the Moon than it was with the Earth. Is this because the Earth was already run for 100 hours? [EDIT: When I got it] and the Moon wasn't?. Is anyone else noticing sustained differences in temperature when using different HDAMs? Like after the 300hr mark has been met with multiple HDAMs?


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ LOL good story Peete. I know for sure I won't be going that route... well, about 99% sure!

 Pulled the trigger on the Compass tonight. Also in the progress of trading my iBasso D10 for a pair of AKG K701's. Hopefully this little combo will either match or best my current D10 + ESW10JPN combination. If it does, the ESW10JPN's are going up on the BST._

 

Nice. I've decided to go with the EF-1 myself, but I'm curious on how the Compass will sound using the K701. Gotta plan a meet up so we can try each other's amps.


----------



## obentou

^ Hmm sounds good! Oh, what are HF-1's? Grado? I've forgotten lol.


----------



## Shizdan

For a newbie, do you guys recommend i pay the extra $ and get the extra HDAMS / Opa?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For a newbie, do you guys recommend i pay the extra $ and get the extra HDAMS / Opa?_

 

Yes, they're free! The shipping is so high on an HDAM individually that if you buy them with the compass, the shipping is free. You can sell them for what you have in them later if you decide you don't want them. That makes them free to use!

 .


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Hmm sounds good! Oh, what are HF-1's? Grado? I've forgotten lol._

 

EF1 is a hybrid amp from Head-Direct. It's supposed to have good synergy with K701 as long as the right Tubes are used.

 Edit: Sorry, don't know why I said HF-1, but meant EF-1. HF-1s are indeed Grados, and I'd never be able to afford (or find) those ever in my lifetime.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you also need to burn-in the Compass for each connection type - USB, Opt, Coax?_

 

Not at all!


----------



## thelsuman

Maybe a dumb question, but oh well...Do you guys think I'm putting my CD player at risk by continually running 24-7 to achieve burn-in on my Compass? (probably a REALLY dumb question since I've already been doing this for over 2 weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) I ask this particularly, because it seems that many folks here are using the Compass with their computer as a source, in which case it may not be a concern to run it 24-7.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe a dumb question, but oh well...Do you guys think I'm putting my CD player at risk by continually running 24-7 to achieve burn-in on my Compass? (probably a REALLY dumb question since I've already been doing this for over 2 weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) I ask this particularly, because it seems that many folks here are using the Compass with their computer as a source, in which case it may not be a concern to run it 24-7._

 

Not really 'at risk', but it will wear. Especially the transport mechanism and the laser only have a limited life-span. Although there's a lot of variation from one transport to the next in this.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe a dumb question, but oh well...Do you guys think I'm putting my CD player at risk by continually running 24-7 to achieve burn-in on my Compass? (probably a REALLY dumb question since I've already been doing this for over 2 weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) I ask this particularly, because it seems that many folks here are using the Compass with their computer as a source, in which case it may not be a concern to run it 24-7._

 

I would not give 2 seconds of thought to this. You'll be done with the break-in in a short period of time. It is a non-issue. 

 .


----------



## pete~

there is no news on my compass. It was apparently sent on 5th, still no tracking info available very strange indeed.


----------



## op2003

Mine was also shipped on 5th and appeared today in EMS' tracking system, so there was obviously some kind of delay.


----------



## Skorpitarius

I'm still waiting for my Compass to arrive (hasn't been the 2 weeks yet).
 one thing I am baffled by is all this talk of 'ASIO' and Foobar this n that ...
 I realize that Foobar is a player but how does ASIO figure in and why ?!!!
 I have a fairly brand new HP p.c. ...
 Is the stock sound-card ASIO-able or do I have to buy a new sound-card and/or ASIO driver or ???


----------



## pete~

i have checked tracking and it shows that its only shipped out today despite being told that it was sent on 5th. It's not acceptable.


----------



## obentou

Relax, it's only 3 days... do something else while you wait.

 @K_19, ah I see, nice amp! We have to meet up someday again to try 'em


----------



## jjo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have checked tracking and it shows that its only shipped out today despite being told that it was sent on 5th. It's not acceptable._

 

Yeah, so damn unacceptable...
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/aud...ml#post5666112

 This is really why I hate the discussion forums. A guy that get a really good deal on DAC/headphone amplifier thinks it's not acceptable when he thinks there's a 3 day delay in him being told the item has shipped and when it actually registers to the tracking service. Oh turns out it was to save his money, so unacceptable. I mean, even if there was a delay, so freaking what.

 A lot of unhappy people in the internet.


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A lot of unhappy people in the internet._

 

Indeed. I try very hard not to respond to some of the posts here (and elsewhere).


----------



## Shizdan

I'm about to email him to purchase the Compass. this is what I am about to email

 "So I will send $254 + 4% ($10.16) = $264.16 + $54 Shipping = $316.16 to the paypal address of audio-gd@vip.163.com for the Compass Dac / Amp with the #2 Power Cord"


 Also Head-Fiers, Im confused about the OPA's. Do i need Dual OPA's or Singles? What OPA (Example being OPA-MOON Dual OPA) should I get so i can mention it in the email


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"So I will send $254 + 4% ($10.16) = $264.16 + $54 Shipping = $316.16 to the paypal address of audio-gd@vip.163.com for the Compass Dac / Amp with the #2 Power Cord"_

 

Incorrect.


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yepyep_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Incorrect. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

How so?


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How so?_

 

The 4% does not come from the Compass' price alone.


----------



## Shizdan

Oh so it would be
 $254 + 54 = $308 + 4% ($12.32) = $320.32


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh so it would be
 $254 + 54 = $308 + 4% ($12.32) = $320.32_

 

I'm pretty sure if you send an email to say what you want, they'll send you an exact number... THEN you send money to paypal. Much better to be safe and just get it right the first time, no?


----------



## Shizdan

Alright I sent him an email...

 "Alright Could you send me a total for..
 - Compass DAC/Amp
 - #2 Power Cable
 - Default OPA

 You would be shipping to the United States"


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh so it would be
 $254 + 54 = $308 + 4% ($12.32) = $320.32_

 

Exactly, except 254 = $258.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Also Head-Fiers, Im confused about the OPA's. Do i need Dual OPA's or Singles? What OPA (Example being OPA-MOON Dual OPA) should I get so i can mention it in the email_

 

The price includes an Earth OPA by default. So, unless you want to buy Moon or Sun OPA by paying extra to try out different sound signatures..you don't have to specify anything. I think it has to be dual, but don't have to worry about that..since you are buying Compass they know what to send.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have checked tracking and it shows that its only shipped out today despite being told that it was sent on 5th. It's not acceptable._

 

As I understand it, the depot is 60km from Audio-gd, and the item doesn't show up in DHL (or EMS?) until it has been processed by the depot. The same thing would occur if you shipped something via a courier from a country town in any large country.


----------



## Shizdan

Thanks for the responses. I really really appreciate it!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where have I heard this one before.... ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I had a dollar for every person I've heard say this I'd be buying my gear with other peoples money year in year out...once you hear a glimpse of how things could be or should be it's tough to stand pat or take a step back.....

 I seem to recall Phewl saying this exact same thing a year ago...guess what he has now ? 



















 A STAX system 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And he's loving it ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 On another note entirely I hooked up some speakers to an old Carver M200T amp of mine (yanked out of storage and cleaned it up inside and out this evening) to give the Compass preamp section a desktop workout using some small 2 way Klipsch pro media monitors in a near field arrangement. Got the surprise of my life...the little garbage speakers aren't half bad properly amped although some vintage JBLs will take their place once I have the stands finished.

 Quite good results despite preconceived notions leading me to think this couldn't be very good. The little Carver (120 W RMS) isn't exactly little but the Compass/Carver combo is pretty darn good....used the Klipsch sub with them...need to get a better sub in there when the JBL's are ready to go. Have a vintage sub (upgraded with new driver and plate amp) ready to go !

 Peete._

 

Shuddup you! I've spent far too much money on my hobby, and I'm too intoxicated to come up with a fair reply. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Music reproduction is like a car. Your first is superb. As is your second. They feel nice, them make good power, and they feel like your 'home'. Then some toerag lets you drive their Porsche 911, and the world you once knew is turned upside down. Forever. There is no going back from this point. You've been introduced to good quality stuff, and nothing compares. It just doesn't...

 Whatever you own, or enjoy, there is always something better. The key is finding the best you can for the money you're comfortable spending. I had a windfall after some old dear ran me over on the road, hence my Stax stuff. And I could never go back to my Senns, despite how lovely they were prior to my experience of what some may call "high end" - though I quickly realised that high-end is waaaay beyond the standard-issue Stax stuff.

 I love it. I couldn't take a backwards step. But, right now, I'd be hard pushed to find the $4k+ I'd need to part with for an appreciable step upwards.

 My advice, as someone fairly level-headed, and with 29 years of life experience - spend a little more than you can comfortably afford, so long as it sounds extremely good to your ears. The DAC, the headphones, the amplifier... if the money is well spent, they'll give years of pleasure. Trying to find the bottom-end bargain... you just know there is a great upgrade out there for just $100 more. And you never really end up enjoying your purchase because of it.

 Compass = superb.
 Stax = superb - but it's something of an acquired taste.

 And I'm now off to bed to try and sleep off my drunken stupor. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~"I thought my BBC studio monitors were the be-all and end-all" until I parted with - frankly - silly money"...Phewl.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Compass = superb.
 Stax = superb - but it's something of an acquired taste._

 

Stax + Reference 1 = amazing. You should try it.


----------



## obentou

Price of the compass is $258 USD, not $254, make sure you read correctly before making any payments, otherwise it may complicate things.

 Edit: Hmm just wondering, the site says there is a 2-week turnaround time from the placement of an order to the actual construction, testing, burn-in period and then shipping. Has anyone else had their compass ship out faster than this?


----------



## punk_guy182

Nope! I ordered mine on the 19th and it was apparently shipped on the 5th and I can't see any info updated on EMS site.


----------



## gilency

This is embarrasing. I dont know how I posted 3 posts....my apologies...


----------



## jjo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edit: Hmm just wondering, the site says there is a 2-week turnaround time from the placement of an order to the actual construction, testing, burn-in period and then shipping. Has anyone else had their compass ship out faster than this?_

 

There might have been an short period whe people got their units faster, but atm there seems to be quite a demand for audio-gd products 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've ordered two and both have taken at lest 2 weeks before shipping. The taking (clearly) longer was due to me ordering it before the final batch was out but late enough that there were 50 guy in the order queue before me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, and punk_guy182: my latest unit was shipped on the 5th and I could see it int the tracking page yesterday. It's just a matter of time.

 Lowering the gain was a good idea though so those of you that have ordered your units now, will get better ones IMO. Or well, at least ones that'll work with more headphones.


----------



## gilency

Now, this is a surprise. Pacific Valve sells the Compass for the same price I paid including shipping from China.
Pacific Valve & Electric Company Pacific Audio gd Compass DAC
 Ooops! they do say they are out of stock....


----------



## gilency

double post...sorry...


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now, this is a surprise. Pacific Valve sells the Compass for the same price I paid including shipping from China.
Pacific Valve & Electric Company Pacific Audio gd Compass DAC_

 


 They've actually had them for some time now. After you factor in shippin, the price comes to be 361 which is 40.00 more than getting it directly from audo-gd. For them the price difference will be worth it to buy it directly from a us dealer with a 30 return policy. But they are not the same price.


----------



## obentou

Ah I see, thanks! I guess I wont expect the Compass until the end of May


----------



## lordearl

are these only bought online or can I pick one up in a store (headed to Kong Kong in a few months)....


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lordearl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_are these only bought online or can I pick one up in a store (headed to Kong Kong in a few months)...._

 

only online


----------



## fotomill

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edit: Hmm just wondering, the site says there is a 2-week turnaround time from the placement of an order to the actual construction, testing, burn-in period and then shipping. Has anyone else had their compass ship out faster than this?_

 

Yeah, mine actually 12 days instead of 14. I ordered it on Apr. 23rd and it was shipped on May 5th. My EMS tracking shows that it has arrived in Seoul.


----------



## pete~

can anybbody tell me about the jitter rejection of the compass DAC? 

 Lavry Da11 has this built in which minimises the effects of the digital source.

 Is compass prone to jitter?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can anybbody tell me about the jitter rejection of the compass DAC? 

 Lavry Da11 has this built in which minimises the effects of the digital source.

 Is compass prone to jitter?_

 

Yes, it is. The Lavry DA11 is ~$1500 though. Audio-gd's DACs that use the DSP are far less prone to jitter, but you're looking at a price over $800.

 That being said, jitter isn't something one should be considering at this price point IMO as there are many other things that will have more of a significant effect on the sound quality of your set-up, such as your headphones for starters.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can anybbody tell me about the jitter rejection of the compass DAC? 

 Lavry Da11 has this built in which minimises the effects of the digital source.

 Is compass prone to jitter?_

 

Use a decent cable and jitter isn't a problem. Like so many things, if you read everything and believed how crucial it was, according to the journalists, then you'd never listen to anything.

 If you've a computer as your source, then use USB, as the transmission of data from the PC to the DAC won't introduce any jitter - AFAIK.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, it is. The Lavry DA11 is ~$1500 though. Audio-gd's DACs that use the DSP are far less prone to jitter, but you're looking at a price over $800.

 That being said, jitter isn't something one should be considering at this price point IMO as there are many other things that will have more of a significant effect on the sound quality of your set-up, such as your headphones for starters._

 

Two things:

 Firstly, have I made the wrong purchase then since it is prone to jitter and i am going to be using a cd player digital output?

 Secondly i am going to use this in a hifi setup with speakers, and it seems that the reviews are all based on being used with headphones.

 How would it fair in a speaker/ power amp setup and what kind of cd player could it compare with? 

 If you could name some current cd players on the market.


----------



## pete~

actually there are a couple of DACs which are at the same price as the compass with jitter taken care of which spring to mind. The beresford? or the new cambridge Audio dacmagic..

 Nobody has yet compared with these two it seems..

 Have you compared with these Audiophewl?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stax + Reference 1 = amazing. You should try it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

You... you... you... ^%^&^%%$$^"£%"£$^"£$ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 My wallet is plenty empty already! XLR appeals hugely, as my Stax stuff accepts it as an input. But my satellite receiver uses optical out, and I like the USB input function too much to go without it...

 I know it would be hugely good. I've ~£750 stashed away, which is ~$1130USD, so I'd not be far off. But that's an immense amount of money to spend on something that doesn't fit my needs all that well - I had a brief chat with Prickley Peete not too long ago about it. I'd love one, but for the best part of £1000(especially by the time I'd added on shipping), I think I'd have more outright fun - if not the best DAC - if I designed and built something myself.

 Where to draw the line? The Compass works very nicely with my current Stax stuff. Upgrade the source to another level, and it would be weeks before I knew I needed better earspeakers, then a new energiser... and, sadly, I just don't have the funds in place. I don't have the disposable cash I did in my "former life", where a weeks wages would pay my rent for the month, food for the month, and with some left over. Back in 2004, I could drop a grand without a moments thought, and little impact in my overall finances. Those days are loooooong gone now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_actually there are a couple of DACs which are at the same price as the compass with jitter taken care of which spring to mind. The beresford? or the new cambridge Audio dacmagic..

 Nobody has yet compared with these two it seems..

 Have you compared with these Audiophewl?_

 

DACMagic resamples. Hence there's little jitter. Read up on the SRC4392 or AD1896 to understand why the jitter is "taken care of".

 Beresford doesn't resample?
 (ETA - scratch that. Yes it does.)

 If you really think jitter is a big thing(I promise you, with the equipment we're talking about, it isn't - it's akin to talking about 0.01mm difference in spark plug gaps on an everyday car), then maybe you should follow the marketing trail and go for something that fulfils your needs better.

 That fraction of a millimetre will make a difference on an engine tuned to excess and operating with very tight tolerances. But in our world, it's nothing to hugely worry about.

 Audio is about so much more than perceived technical numbers. And half the time, the really good numbers are botched to give an unfair representation of their true meaning.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DACMagic resamples. Hence there's little jitter. Read up on the SRC4392 or AD1896 to understand why the jitter is "taken care of".

 Beresford doesn't resample?
 (ETA - scratch that. Yes it does.)

 If you really think jitter is a big thing(I promise you, with the equipment we're talking about, it isn't - it's akin to talking about 0.01mm difference in spark plug gaps on an everyday car), then maybe you should follow the marketing trail and go for something that fulfils your needs better.

 That fraction of a millimetre will make a difference on an engine tuned to excess and operating with very tight tolerances. But in our world, it's nothing to hugely worry about.

 Audio is about so much more than perceived technical numbers. And half the time, the really good numbers are botched to give an unfair representation of their true meaning.

 ~Phewl._

 

But then the question is what makes one DAC sound different to another? Is it more the output stage which makes the difference?

 In fact how different do these sorts of devices sound? I have tested the Lavry and the benchmark and the beresford and a few others too. I could never perceive a massive difference at the time.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_actually there are a couple of DACs which are at the same price as the compass with jitter taken care of which spring to mind. The beresford? or the new cambridge Audio dacmagic..

 Nobody has yet compared with these two it seems..

 Have you compared with these Audiophewl?_

 

I thought the DacMagic was mentioned earlier.


 .


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Two things:

 Firstly, have I made the wrong purchase then since it is prone to jitter and i am going to be using a cd player digital output?

 Secondly i am going to use this in a hifi setup with speakers, and it seems that the reviews are all based on being used with headphones.

 How would it fair in a speaker/ power amp setup and what kind of cd player could it compare with? 

 If you could name some current cd players on the market._

 

There are comparisons with cd players. You don't have to go any further than page one of this thread where Curra has links posted links to reviews and impressions. A lot of cd players and dacs are prone to at least some jitter. The ones you mentioned are no exceptions. In fact I've owned the beresford, and imo, it's not even close to the compass(i'm referring to the dac part). To me they are worlds apart. It is a good dac for the money, but it's very bright and cold sounding compared to the compass. The compass has been compared to a few expensive cd players, but it's probably not on par with 1000.00 dacs. But imo it kills most dacs within twice it's price range. It's still a little digital sounding, but not as much as most in it's price range. There are a lot of things more important than jitter. Most would argue, unless there's huge amounts of jitter, which there aren't with most decent gear, that's it' s not even audible.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the DacMagic was mentioned earlier.


 ._

 

Yes, it was.


----------



## greenarrow

Hi guys

 Can I use the Compass pre-amp output to a Darkvoice 336se input? I'm presently using the Compass DAC to the DV input.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys

 Can I use the Compass pre-amp output to a Darkvoice 336se input? I'm presently using the Compass DAC to the DV input._

 

Yes, but it would be cleaner with the DAC output.

 .


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But then the question is what makes one DAC sound different to another? Is it more the output stage which makes the difference?

 In fact how different do these sorts of devices sound? I have tested the Lavry and the benchmark and the beresford and a few others too. I could never perceive a massive difference at the time._

 

Short answer - everything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 From PSU design, through to PCB layout, ground plane, component choices, output stage, coupling caps, and how the signal is fed to the amplifier.

 A fool - like me - could throw together a PCB design using 2, 4, or even 8 PCM1704 DAC ICs, using the datasheets for help. But someone gifted and knowledgeable could extract better performance from the CS4398 or AD1852.

 How good is the car without a skilled driver? How good is the driver without a balanced and powerful car? I'm betting Jensen Button would be faster around a circuit in a BMW M3 than I'd be in a F1 car.

 In all honesty, music quality is down to perception and the quality of the tools available to the listener. The differences are a lot more subtle than many of the threads on here would have you believe. I keep using the car analogy, but it seems to work quite well. If you took someone not familiar with the nuances of a balanced chassis, independent suspension, slick tyres, cross-drilled discs, and an engine designed to extract as much power as it could from the fuel, by using an aggressive ignition timing, then the chances are that person:-

 a. Couldn't comprehend the difference between this car, and the road-going model. They'd know it was better, but they'd not know just how much better.

 b. Wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the car in its current state, or if it had a close-ratio gearbox and nicely tuned exhaust fitted. They probably wouldn't even be able to tell you which one was better.

 c. Certainly couldn't understand the difference in price between the different options. Another $100 for some nice floormats and pink fluffy dice, they'd get that. But another $1000 for the exhaust? Pfff.... what a waste!

 But someone who knew what they were doing, and had a good background of experience with these things... they'd pick up the differences, and be able to extract the most from each of them.

 Listening to music, in a proper "listening" session, isn't about how the car gets from A to B. It's about the noise it makes, the bumps in the road, the balance the car demonstrates whilst adjusting to the varying cambers. It's about the small amount of fuel sneaking past the valves and igniting when it hits the exhaust, the sensation the steering gives as you turn in, how much the tail slides out when you hop on the power...

 You'll get from A to B with either car. But with good equipment, a nice amplifier and a good source, you'll - hopefully - find each journey is like the finely-honed car above. The differences often aren't immediate - they can be very subtle, often inaudible to the casual listener. But someone who enjoys what they're listening to... the passionate fool who parts with - frankly - obscene amounts of money for the stupid and ludicrous hobby they enjoy... they find beauty and magic in the noise a guitar makes as the string is plucked. They are overwhelmed with passion each time Katie Melua breathes in before actually wanting to make a sound. They crave that natural resonance as the stick strikes the drum...

 Some advice, from a moron who is intoxicated with such nonsense - don't do it. If you're not immediately hearing the difference between a Lavry, the Benchmark, or the Beresford, you're stupidly lucky and should get out before this disease takes hold of your mind. Because the search for more detail, for a more natural sound, for the texture of the music to take over all logical thought, for you to taste the smell of the audience whilst listening to the recording of an acoustic session... it really is a drug. And, for some stupid reason, it's perfectly legal.

 Sit back, as the casual observer who appreciates something that sounds good to them without spending money they don't have. Like the person who needs a car to drive to the shops... the tool provides what you need. Don't go looking for more.

 There are thousands of people on here who will advise you to join their quest. None of them want to help you out in any way. They just want you to buy the equipment they like, to make themselves feel less bad about the misery this nasty hobby inflicts on all aspects of their lives.

 Walk away. Quickly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Happy listening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Balls... I've just done a college dissertation, and taken us completely off-topic. I do apologise... again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Nah AP that post makes terrific sense.....perfectly said I might add.

 The only thing I'd like to add is that the persuit of minute details for the most part never occupies the budget level or entry level market per se...that search for the last ounce of realism resides solely in the high end market place where 372 dollars is the price of a cable or a tweak of some kind...often quite a bit more money than 400US. IME at this crazy game thus far at least.


 That being said the Compass is a remarkable entry level product and gets a lot of these "details" right.

 Peete.


----------



## AxChronic26

I'm actually thinking about buying the Compass, but i don't want to deal with customs. Is the Pacific Valve and Electric company any good because it shows that they sell the Compass.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Firstly, have I made the wrong purchase then since it is prone to jitter and i am going to be using a cd player digital output?_

 

No. You've made a mistake worrying about jitter.

  Quote:


 Secondly i am going to use this in a hifi setup with speakers, and it seems that the reviews are all based on being used with headphones.

 How would it fair in a speaker/ power amp setup and what kind of cd player could it compare with? 
 

Pricklely Peete has used it as a pre-amp with very good results. See his review. As for CD players, we have no idea.

 Most importantly, when we link you to things, you have to read for yourself. Going by your repeated questions, you don't read at all.

 Ultimately though, you should wait until your Compass arrives and see how it is for you, in the uses you put it to. Even if we answered all your questions, which are answered already in the FAQ and elsewhere, until you actually use it, nothing we say will really tell you about how it will be for you.


----------



## moodyrn

well said.


----------



## Megalith

When is the balanced amp coming?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Megalith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When is the balanced amp coming?_

 

It's the Phoenix and yeah, when?

 .


----------



## lordearl

On paper this machine (along with the Yulong Mark ii) looks incredible!

 Any measurements available on the output sensitivity of the pre-amp section?

 At the moment I'm running two headamps from tapeouts from an NAD C355 BEE and want to bin these in place of a pre-amp which doubles as a head amp {to keep the connections between the sources and headphones a lot shorter}.

 These are the NAD C355 "main in" specifications:
 -input impedance of 20 k ohms
 -input sensitivity of 954 mv at 20k ohms

 I'd need (a) a line output impedance of 2 k ohms or less and (b) output sensitivity of 400 - 500mv into 20 k ohms or 200 - 250 mv into 10k ohms or 800mv to 1v into 50 k ohms.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lordearl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On paper this machine (along with the Yulong Mark ii) looks incredible!

 Any measurements available on the output sensitivity of the pre-amp section?

 At the moment I'm running two headamps from tapeouts from an NAD C355 BEE and want to bin these in place of a pre-amp which doubles as a head amp {to keep the connections between the sources and headphones a lot shorter}.

 These are the NAD C355 "main in" specifications:
 -input impedance of 20 k ohms
 -input sensitivity of 954 mv at 20k ohms

 I'd need (a) a line output impedance of 2 k ohms or less and (b) output sensitivity of 400 - 500mv into 20 k ohms or 200 - 250 mv into 10k ohms or 800mv to 1v into 50 k ohms._

 

I've had both, and this Blows the Yulong away. Also the Yulong has had Tranfo hum issues and ground loop hum issues.

 .


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lordearl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any measurements available on the output sensitivity of the pre-amp section?_

 

Email Kingwa (same email address that's on their site) and ask him. It's a good question.


----------



## Bostonears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But then the question is what makes one DAC sound different to another? Is it more the output stage which makes the difference?_

 

There's a school of thought that believes the op amps have more impact on the sound than anything else.

 If you think jitter makes much of a difference, see if you can get a straight answer to a very simple question: assuming we're talking about levels of jitter that are not so horrible as to cause bit errors, what does digital jitter sound like when it gets converted to analog audio? I have yet to receive a plausible answer to that question from anyone, whether audiophile or high end equipment manufacturer.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bostonears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<<SNIP>>
 If you think jitter makes much of a difference, see if you can get a straight answer to a very simple question: assuming we're talking about levels of jitter that are not so horrible as to cause bit errors, what does digital jitter sound like when it gets converted to analog audio? I have yet to receive a plausible answer to that question from anyone, whether audiophile or high end equipment manufacturer._

 

Absolutely! Maybe some of the contributors in this thread who have claimed to hear Jitter will Pipe In.

 .


----------



## wdoerr

Is that Neutrik plug on the compass the one with the magnets that provides a kinda chassis ground?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that Neutrik plug on the compass the one with the magnets that provides a kinda chassis ground?_

 

Neutrik - Audio - Locking 1/4" Phone Jacks - NJ3FP6C

 .


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that Neutrik plug on the compass the one with the magnets that provides a kinda chassis ground?_

 

Duh! The plugs have the magnets.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Duh! The plugs have the magnets._

 

And aren't they actually intended for electric guitars and the like too? I must say I've often looked at them and wondered how they would work for headphones. I might try someday.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I wonder how many mating cycles the average human is rated for ? The Neutrik has 10K lifetime according to the Technical spec sheet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As for the Phoenix...when it's done. I'd rather Kingwa take as much time as he needs for it (for obvious reasons 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) to get it just the way he wants it.

 Peete.


----------



## Shizdan

Does anyone have experience with the Compass and the upperline of Sennheiser Cans? (HD 580, HD 600 or Hd 650). I would like to know how they perform with the Compass.


----------



## moodyrn

The compass sounds really good with my hd580s. It actually sounds better than I was expecting. I think you'll be happy. It will be a significant step up from what you have in you signature, both your amp and sound card.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have experience with the Compass and the upperline of Sennheiser Cans? (HD 580, HD 600 or Hd 650). I would like to know how they perform with the Compass._

 

Mine works well with my old Senn HD480IIs. They were used for broadcast monitoring at the BBC by the sound engineers...

 ...though I can't give a hugely detailed answer, as I rarely use them these days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl.


----------



## Shizdan

Alright I am gonan be purchasing this Dac/Amp through a head-fier! I cant wait.


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright I am gonan be purchasing this Dac/Amp through a head-fier! I cant wait._

 

I hope you'll enjoy it.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have experience with the Compass and the upperline of Sennheiser Cans? (HD 580, HD 600 or Hd 650). I would like to know how they perform with the Compass._

 

the synergy is definitely there between my hd650 and c2c

 i heard the c2c is quite similar to the compasss headamp


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have experience with the Compass and the upperline of Sennheiser Cans? (HD 580, HD 600 or Hd 650). I would like to know how they perform with the Compass._

 

Works great with my HD600 (with 650 cable)


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the first one. It is great. She has another CD singing Vivaldi which is great: Amazon.com: Cecilia Bartoli - The Vivaldi Album / Il Giardino Armonico: Antonio Vivaldi, Giovanni Antonini, Cecilia Bartoli, Il Giardino Armonico: Music
 The second one looks pretty good too. I really like Harnoncourt, Barenboin and of course, the Berliner Philharmoniker._

 

Gilency, I really need to thank you for bringing Cecilia Bartoli's Mozart Arias to my attention. Bartoli is virgin territory for me and I couldn't be any more impressed, she is totally amazing!! I don't know if you've purchased the 1996 version of the Mozart Arias yet, but I highly recommend doing so, it's pure quality/beauty... 

 I really like Bartoli's "The Vivaldi Album" too. I've ordered more of her cd's along w/ her concert dvd's today. She's a freak of nature, a genius, she's very, very special... 

 I have around 200 hours on my Compass now. I haven't experienced any harsh/sibilant moments with Bartoli and the 880's. She is just so dynamic and powerful though, almost blowing the cans off of my head at times. I absolutely love her work, but I do need to keep an eye on the volume with her. There is no doubt she can push the best gear on the planet. Even though she is classified as mezzo, she has probably shattered many glasses in her day... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: I'm still listening to this Bartoli material, but w/ my Grado's now. It's simply breathtaking. Thanks again, I really appreciate it.


----------



## doping panda

Yep, Bartoli is quite amazing. Another mezzo I love is Bernada Fink. I'd suggest checking out her recent Bach Solo Cantatas recording for starters although most of her output is extraordinary. Being a Harmonia Mundi recording, it's a bit pricey, but the jaw dropping sound quality is worth every penny.

Johann Sebastian Bach: Solo Cantatas

 Although not a mezzo-soprano, Veronique Gens is amazing as well. She is breathtaking in Dido & Aeneas, but I'm not sure if you a fan of opera in general though.

Purcell - Dido & Aeneas / Gens, Marin-Degor, N. Berg, Brua, Daneman, Fouchécourt, Méchaly, Les Arts Florissants, Christie


----------



## oldschool

Can anyone tip me on how to set the Compass to work in Windows XP for all sounds, and not only foobar music? I don't have to set anything when using optical, but for USB obviously the USB DAC must be a default output device. 

 Even though I set it in _Sound and Audio Devices_ I still don't get any sound elsewhere except in foobar.


----------



## SoFGR

still no confirmation from audio-gd on my order's postage, too early though only 10 days have passed since i've sent them payment, anyway i did a fair amount of googling these days about volume settings on x-fi when using DACs/amps, which settings are ideal to avoid distortion ? 100% main 100% wave ? 50% main 100% wave or something between ?


----------



## Canuck57

Rec'd my Compass today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It was ordered 4/16, shipped 4/29 and arrived 5/11

*Canada Post did NOT charge anything *(no brokerage, PST, GST) It was delivered right to my door as a signature is required.

 The shipping box looked perfect, no dented corners, it was packed very well.

 Great looking unit, seems very well built, very impressive!

 Have only been listening for 10 mins and it sounds GREAT! Listening to Mick Taylor (former Rolling Stone) Lil Red Rooster (FLAC) - great blues guitar CD! with my HD650s

 Up next Darth Beyers, Ultrasone HFI-780s and lots of burn in!


----------



## Solid Snake

Compass came today. Pretty happy with the overall purchase. Took a little while to get here but I was in no hurry.

 Some quick impressions about it:

 The first thing I noticed was its super clarity SQ. Also the soundstage is very wide and the separation is excellent. This might be a great amp for gaming.. And for the bass, its extremely tight and controlled. Overall, it is making my HD650 sing.

 Quick question to those that received their compass.

 I opened up the top cover and removed the foam stuff on top of the OPA-earth module. I removed most of it but there is still some foam residue left that's stuck to the panel. Has anyone had a similar experience with it?

 Thanks


----------



## Canuck57

I have residue left from the foam as well, I'll have to work on getting it off. I currently have the lid off as I'm listening...


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Solid Snake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question to those that received their compass.

 I opened up the top cover and removed the foam stuff on top of the OPA-earth module. I removed most of it but there is still some foam residue left that's stuck to the panel. Has anyone had a similar experience with it?

 Thanks_

 

haha apparently not everyone is as crazy as me - spending the time waiting for their compass reading the whole thread 

 Yes, many have had the same problem. It ain't coming all the way off. I've tried everything, short of a razor blade - don't wanna scratch anything.


----------



## Solid Snake

Glad I am not the only one. Its actually pretty hot down here in Phoenix and I was thinking maybe some of it melted while it was making its delivery.

 I have some electrosolve contact cleaner that is for cleaning processors and such...I wonder if this can help remove most of it.


----------



## ScottieB

Give it a shot - I used rubbing alcohol, adhesive remover, nail polish remover, etc with very little luck. I gave up a long time ago


----------



## Aleatoris

Isopropyl rubbing alcohol also works. Try not to rub off the silkscreened box while you're at it.


----------



## Canuck57

I've got most of the residue off by just rubbing my thumb across the residue and sort of rolling it off....but still some left that's stubborn..

 That Goo-Gone stuff would prolly work, I'm hesitant to try Lacquer Thinner as it may harm the finish.

 Figures that I'll be out of town all day tomorrow & day after so I won't be able to listen to the compass...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Tons of clarity & detail ...amazing! Bass response is excellent!


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aleatoris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Isopropyl rubbing alcohol also works. Try not to rub off the silkscreened box while you're at it._

 


 That worked, thanks!


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, Bartoli is quite amazing. Another mezzo I love is Bernada Fink. I'd suggest checking out her recent Bach Solo Cantatas recording for starters although most of her output is extraordinary. Being a Harmonia Mundi recording, it's a bit pricey, but the jaw dropping sound quality is worth every penny.

Johann Sebastian Bach: Solo Cantatas

 Although not a mezzo-soprano, Veronique Gens is amazing as well. She is breathtaking in Dido & Aeneas, but I'm not sure if you a fan of opera in general though.

Purcell - Dido & Aeneas / Gens, Marin-Degor, N. Berg, Brua, Daneman, Fouchécourt, Méchaly, Les Arts Florissants, Christie_

 


 I've haven't spent much time with opera. Bartoli was a huge eye-opener, I'm very interested in exploring. Thanks a lot for the info, I ordered the discs that you recommended...


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've haven't spent much time with opera. Bartoli was a huge eye-opener, I'm very interested in exploring. Thanks a lot for the info, I ordered the discs that you recommended..._

 

And baroque and classical opera is just the start. Wait 'till you get to Wagner!


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gilency, I really need to thank you for bringing Cecilia Bartoli's Mozart Arias to my attention. Bartoli is virgin territory for me and I couldn't be any more impressed, she is totally amazing!! I don't know if you've purchased the 1996 version of the Mozart Arias yet, but I highly recommend doing so, it's pure quality/beauty... 

 I really like Bartoli's "The Vivaldi Album" too. I've ordered more of her cd's along w/ her concert dvd's today. She's a freak of nature, a genius, she's very, very special... 

 I have around 200 hours on my Compass now. I haven't experienced any harsh/sibilant moments with Bartoli and the 880's. She is just so dynamic and powerful though, almost blowing the cans off of my head at times. I absolutely love her work, but I do need to keep an eye on the volume with her. There is no doubt she can push the best gear on the planet. Even though she is classified as mezzo, she has probably shattered many glasses in her day... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: I'm still listening to this Bartoli material, but w/ my Grado's now. It's simply breathtaking. Thanks again, I really appreciate it._

 

and thank you for telling me about used CD's in Amazon. I am listening to my main speakers with the Compass connected to my iBook. Beautiful. I have transfered about 600 CD's into Apple Losseless so far. No need to dig into my CD's to look for certain piece. While the Apple TV is probably nice, the old iBook I had around the house fits the bill.
 The Compass completed the circle.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And baroque and classical opera is just the start. Wait 'till you get to Wagner! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

I'm interested, please recommend some of your favorites when you have a chance. PM might be best to avoid further OT on the thread...


----------



## Shizdan

Well I just ordered the used one of Head-fi for $365 including the Earth OPA and the upgraded power cable!


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldschool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone tip me on how to set the Compass to work in Windows XP for all sounds, and not only foobar music? I don't have to set anything when using optical, but for USB obviously the USB DAC must be a default output device. 

 Even though I set it in Sound and Audio Devices I still don't get any sound elsewhere except in foobar._

 

The ASIO drivers erases the windows USB drivers. Therefore, The ASIO drivers will work only with programs which can utilize ASIO. Foobar can utilize ASIO. Window media player, Adobe flash player, etc (i.e. all the computer programs you normally use) will not work with ASIO.

 Basically, you made your computer an audio file server for foobar, no other audio will work.

 The people advocating ASIO are using dedicated audio file server computers, like your is now.

 This was reported in this thread, but you had to read carefully.

 Interesting that the people pushing ASIO don't respond to your problem.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I just ordered the used one of Head-fi for $365 including the Earth OPA and the upgraded power cable!_

 

That was a good catch! Makes you wonder why someone would unload a Compass so quick . It is superb, flexible gear.

 .


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That was a good catch! Makes you wonder why someone would unload a Compass so quick . It is superb, flexible gear.

 ._

 

Well if it doesn't synergize with your setup I would sell it asap to keep its value, Ya know?


----------



## obentou

^ I'd wait until the price went up then sell it. rofl


----------



## doping panda

My Compass arrived this morning in perfect condition. I've yet the opportunity to listen to it because a working at my dorm's front desk signed for it, forcing me to wait until my mail room opened. The build quality of this unit is superb - it feels like a brick. After opening up my package, I set it to neutral with the Earth. Now, I'm gonna pop in some music. The only question left is K500 or Sextetts?

 EDIT: An amusing fact for me due to my screen name was is that the package was from Bamboo Logistics Solutions


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ I'd wait until the price went up then sell it. rofl_

 

xactly!


----------



## joewatch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ASIO drivers erases the windows USB drivers. Therefore, The ASIO drivers will work only with programs which can utilize ASIO. Foobar can utilize ASIO. Window media player, Adobe flash player, etc (i.e. all the computer programs you normally use) will not work with ASIO.

 Basically, you made your computer an audio file server for foobar, no other audio will work.

 The people advocating ASIO are using dedicated audio file server computers, like your is now.

 This was reported in this thread, but you had to read carefully.

 Interesting that the people pushing ASIO don't respond to your problem._

 

Yep, I had the same problem when I installed Ploytec USB-ASIO. I use ASIO4ALL now and don't have the problem anymore.


----------



## Nidhogg22

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ASIO drivers erases the windows USB drivers. Therefore, The ASIO drivers will work only with programs which can utilize ASIO. Foobar can utilize ASIO. Window media player, Adobe flash player, etc (i.e. all the computer programs you normally use) will not work with ASIO.

 Basically, you made your computer an audio file server for foobar, no other audio will work.

 The people advocating ASIO are using dedicated audio file server computers, like your is now.

 This was reported in this thread, but you had to read carefully.

 Interesting that the people pushing ASIO don't respond to your problem._

 

Do computer games (PC and emulated) still have sound?


----------



## doping panda

Just had my first listen. I've listened to one of the Bach Cantatas on Bernada Fink's _Bach Solo Cantatas_ recording, the Ballade in G minor from the _Moravec Plays Chopin_ recording, and a Mozart aria from Veronique Gen's Mozart Aria recording. First impressions are very favorable. 

 The DAC is sounds clean, smooth, full, and dynamic with strong attack. The clarity is great although I feel there's a bit of haze over the sound. I'm not sure whether this is a limitation of the DAC, my recordings, or my lack of familiarity with the unit. This doesn't mean the Compass doesn't sound good; it sounds great, but there's just a little bit missing. Perhaps it'll go away with burn-in. Or perhaps I'm one of those unfortunate few who need that last 10%. The sound is pretty smooth as of right now if perhaps a tad bright, but my Compass is still young and unsettled so I'll see how it develops. The sound has a lot of body. This morning while listening to Bernada Fink's Bach Solo Cantata recording before my Compass arrived I noticed her voice sounded thin and almost lifeless out of my Supreme, but not so with my Compass which rendered her voice fully and richly. The dynamics and attack of this DAC are exceptional. Listening to Moravec playing Chopin's Ballade in G minor, his accents came through suddenly and powerfully. This DAC sounds great in pretty much all areas, but not perfect because of that slight haze; however, I can't really complain for the money I paid.

 The amp is a strong performer as well, perhaps even stronger than the DAC. My god, it is is powerful! On my K500, 9 o'clock is deafening on high gain. I can't even imagine how loud it was before Kingwa reduced the gain. The amp has also managed to extract a bit more bass impact from my K500 which is just perfect for my tastes. There doesn't seem to be any frequencies that are overly emphasized. 

 One quality that applies to both the DAC and the amp is at the very first listen nothing really jumps out at you, but believe me this is a good thing. It means that the unit isn't overemphasizing anything, a very desirable quality for gear.

 I can't comment much more than this from my very limited first impressions. The Compass DAC sounds great while the Compass amp is very powerful. For the amount of money spent, I feel this unit is a very solid offering.


----------



## aristos_achaion

Just got my Compass...it makes a lovely first DAC/Amp. I've got it set to "soft-2" for the breakin, but I think I might like it more than neutral with my YH-1s.

 It's my fist, so I really can't compare to anything else, but this thing does feel confidence-inspiringly solid, doesn't it?


----------



## driftingbunnies

I FINALLY GOT IT! omg has it been a long 2 months. one thing though...i wanted a customized one where it outputs all at the same time but that definitely doesn't work. So i'm not sure what i should do. When i press the super button my DAC out turns out. When it's out, the headphone works. when i turn on the pre-amp, the headphone doesn't work. is that how a normal one works?


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aristos_achaion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but this thing does feel confidence-inspiringly solid, doesn't it?_

 

Absolutely! This was my first dac as well and I'm thrilled with it. I haven't played around with the jumpers or opamps yet, still soft-2/moon at work but I will eventually get to it once work settles down and I start to write my review.

 It makes one excited for what is possible from a computer if this little Dac is but the "starter" unit in their line-up!


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aristos_achaion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my Compass...it makes a lovely first DAC/Amp. I've got it set to "soft-2" for the breakin, but I think I might like it more than neutral with my YH-1s.

 It's my fist, so I really can't compare to anything else, but this thing does feel confidence-inspiringly solid, doesn't it?_

 

Absolutely. The Compass(and C-2C) was my first SS headphone gear purchase too. I did a lot of research, reading head-fi and vendor websites until my eyes were bleeding. IMO, the quality and value are A++.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zanth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Absolutely! This was my first dac as well and I'm thrilled with it. I haven't played around with the jumpers or opamps yet, still soft-2/moon at work but I will eventually get to it once work settles down and I start to write my review.

 It makes one excited for what is possible from a computer if this little Dac is but the "starter" unit in their line-up!_

 

Although I told myself I would start soft-2 burn-in soon, it's rather difficult to turn the Compass off once music is flowing through it. I'm even more-so interested in their higher-end DACs now after hearing how nice this one sounds. Adding to that, I have a Stax rig in transit. Depending on how much synergy my ears have with the Lambdas, the Compass amp, as good as it is, might be left unnecessary.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Although I told myself I would start soft-2 burn-in soon, it's rather difficult to turn the Compass off once music is flowing through it. I'm even more-so interested in their higher-end DACs now after hearing how nice this one sounds. Adding to that, I have a Stax rig in transit. Depending on how much synergy my ears have with the Lambdas, the Compass amp, as good as it is, might be left unnecessary._

 

I was the same way, I told myself I was going to throw it into soft-2 mode immediately and let it burn. I was enjoying the ride so much that I couldn't stop listening in neutral for several days. I like these kind of "problems" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've been interested in their higher-end DAC's too. I like to be thorough, so I was doing a ton of research. The actual final answer for me was clearly obvious all along the way, so I decided to stop wasting my time and I placed another order for a high-end DAC with A-GD. The C-2C(still available for only $335) is a killer amp and an amazing value too...


----------



## MysteryMachine

Compass question: I ordered on May 2. I will be gone on vacation from May 22 through June 7. 

 Will it probably arrive during this time? If so what should I do - can I call DHL and tell them to hold it or are these just left without signature (if that's the case I will ask a neighbor to check my doorstop nightly)

 Last thing I want is to come back from vacation excited to try the compass and find out it was sent back to China!!


----------



## Zanth

Contact Cherry. If it can't be delivered by May 22nd ask them to hold off until you return. Shipping doesn't take very long (2-3 days most often).


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MysteryMachine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Compass question: I ordered on May 2. I will be gone on vacation from May 22 through June 7. 

 Will it probably arrive during this time? If so what should I do - can I call DHL and tell them to hold it or are these just left without signature (if that's the case I will ask a neighbor to check my doorstop nightly)

 Last thing I want is to come back from vacation excited to try the compass and find out it was sent back to China!!_

 

I certainly can't speak for the timing of the entire order fulfillment, but I do travel for business quite a bit and have to deal with this type of situation. You should be able to keep any deliveries on hold with any carrier until you return. If I were in your shoes, I would not waive the "signature required" liability under any circumstances. I would let A-GD do their normal thing, then when you get the tracking number(s) from Cherry, place a hold on your delivery with the carrier until you're able to receive them yourself. I've done this several times with various carriers and have never had a problem...

 EDIT: The above advice is assuming you'll be checking email. I always do that while I'm traveling for business, but a vacation could be a different story for you...I understand the whole point is to get away. If you really don't want to sweat anything, just have A-GD ship your order when you return...


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joewatch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, I had the same problem when I installed Ploytec USB-ASIO. I use ASIO4ALL now and don't have the problem anymore._

 

For mine i am using the ploytec driver also

 and all my stuff have sound from windows media classic to firefox to foobar to even games 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but i am using win xp


----------



## MysteryMachine

Thanks for the tips. I will email Cherry and see if A) they can deliver to my office instead (I'll ask the receptionist to make sure its not all beat up before signing for it). B) If they can't do that becuase its a different address than Paypal I will just have them hold off on sending it.

 2-3 days wow! Who knows, maybe I will get lucky and it will come before I leave.


----------



## samspotting

Would this dac be good for audioengine a2s or would it be overkill?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *samspotting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would this dac be good for audioengine a2s or would it be overkill?_

 

Would definitely not overkill at all. How about the A5s?

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I FINALLY GOT IT! omg has it been a long 2 months. one thing though...i wanted a customized one where it outputs all at the same time but that definitely doesn't work. So i'm not sure what i should do. When i press the super button my DAC out turns out. When it's out, the headphone works. when i turn on the pre-amp, the headphone doesn't work. is that how a normal one works?_

 


 Default config is as follows (if I forget an option or have one wrong by all means other Compass owners chime in please)

 Super OUT Pre/H Amp switch set to H Amp = DAC/H Amp normal operation to headphone output.

 Super IN + H/Amp switch set to Headphones allows Analog LINE IN to function (in this instance ) for a LINE level analog source such as LP player/phono preamp combo, cassette deck, Reel to Reel tape deck, 8-track tape (LOL) and IPOD from LOD, etc...With this setting the DAC LINE outs and Preamp outs do *not* pass any signals.

 Super OUT + H/Amp/Preamp switch set to *Preamp = Turns headphone out off and Preamp variable LINE outs ON. DAC line out is OFF

 *Gain switch has no bearing when selecting source/line function routing but it is recommended that one use the low gain setting for the variable level PREAMP functionality.


 db you need to let us know what you wanted the Super switch to do otherwise it's difficult to guess what your actual unit will do from the default configuration.


 Peete.


----------



## driftingbunnies

After thinking about it I figured out that yeah mine's a regular one. The thing that kinda pisses me off is that i waited an extra two weeks for a "customized" one which turned out to be a regular one. I had asked twice if it was possible to output more than one at a time and kingwa said yes. I could dig up the emails if you want me to but there's no reason for me to lie to you guys. Just a little ridiculous when i've been waiting for 2 months just to get a regular one.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I FINALLY GOT IT! omg has it been a long 2 months. one thing though...*i wanted a customized one where it outputs all at the same time *but that definitely doesn't work. So i'm not sure what i should do. When i press the super button my DAC out turns out. When it's out, the headphone works. when i turn on the pre-amp, the headphone doesn't work. is that how a normal one works?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After thinking about it I figured out that yeah mine's a regular one. The thing that kinda pisses me off is that i waited an extra two weeks for a "customized" one which turned out to be a regular one. *I had asked twice if it was possible to output more than one at a time and kingwa said yes.* I could dig up the emails if you want me to but there's no reason for me to lie to you guys. Just a little ridiculous when i've been waiting for 2 months just to get a regular one._

 

Are you sure it wasn't a communication problem? did you want ALL or more than one to work at the same time, because it seems at least in your case the DAC out + headphones working with Super activated, and if I understand you clearly that is more than one output working together unlike the rest of us.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Good catch Sandchak, I hadn't thought of that !!!

 Peete.


----------



## driftingbunnies

在2009-04-20，"Lee" <> 写道：
 >I guess I'll just wait for the custom one where it can output all three 
 >at the same time. Please try to ship it as soon as possible since i've 
 >been waiting for a long time. Thank you.
 >
 >audio-gd wrote:
 >> Dear Lee,
 >> I check the ago email, you have ever said the output same time.
 >> Do you still need this function?
 >> If you need, I at first place order,and make your order at first, can 
 >> ship in next week.
 >> How do you think?
 >> Kingwa
 >>
 >>
 >> 在2009-04-20，"Lee" <> 写道：
 >> >That's pretty long. I guess I would rather not do that. I had asked for 
 >> >that at the very beginning when i ordered it back in the middle of 
 >> >march. I guess just send me a regular unit. Will you be able to ship it 
 >> >on monday?
 >> >
 >> >
 >> >audio-gd wrote:
 >> >> Dear Lee,
 >> >> If you need the DAC, HP amp, Preamp output at same time, must make by 
 >> >> your order, it need around 15 days.
 >> >> How do you think?
 >> >> Kingwa
 >> >>


 and later on i asked about my status and cherry sends this

 Dear Lee,
 Because your compass need "all the output at the same time",we need some time to make this.
 Your compass is a little different from others.
 We will ship it to you as soon as possible.
 Best regards.
 Cherry

 So...yeah...i asked in my first email if they could output more than one at the same time and kingwa said yes. Then i asked if he could do all of them and he said yes also. That's why i'm kinda confused how mine's "custom" if it seems like it's exactly the same as everybody elses.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 So...yeah...i asked in my first email if they could output more than one at the same time and kingwa said yes. Then i asked if he could do all of them and he said yes also. That's why i'm kinda confused how mine's "custom" if it seems like it's exactly the same as everybody elses._

 


 Well, in that case, I think you need to take this up with Kingwa.. although unlike the rest of normal Compass owners, your headphones work with Super activated (if I read you correctly), but that counts for more than one and not all outputs working at the same time.


----------



## driftingbunnies

My headphones don't work when i press the super button. I meant when the super button is out or protruding out, the headphone works which i'm assuming means that it's not in super mode. Yeah I'm not sure why he's not replying to my email. It should be about afternoon time for them.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My headphones don't work when i press the super button. I meant when the super button is out or protruding out, the headphone works which i'm assuming means that it's not in super mode. Yeah I'm not sure why he's not replying to my email. It should be about afternoon time for them._

 

Thats the best thing to do, I guess he must be trying to figure out why this has happened - give them sometime, I am sure they will come up with something to sort this out, there have been bigger issues in the past (like the baggers) and they have dealt with them.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For mine i am using the ploytec driver also

 and all my stuff have sound from windows media classic to firefox to foobar to even games 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but i am using win xp_

 

I've tested the p-tec driver on win xp as well. IMO, they're rock-solid and all other sound on my system functioned as it should, zero issues...


----------



## driftingbunnies

haha funny you mentioned that...since i was a bagger too...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_haha funny you mentioned that...since i was a bagger too..._

 

It was actually intentional .. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw, can you post internal (boards) pictures of your Compass ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

db your Super switch is wired to act as a source selector between DAC source and Analog line input source sent to both the head amp and the preamp outs. 

 When the Super switch is out you get the Pre out ON and the DAC line out ON...the toggle (pre or H Amp) in this instance may be redundant or it may not be...I don't know for sure

 That's my best guess. 

 Upon further thought I think your unit is wired the way you wanted it to be although some clarification from Kingwa might be useful.

 Peete.


----------



## driftingbunnies

Kingwa sent me an email saying that they mixed up my order with somebody in ND. grrr...I guess i'm gonna have to ship it to that person somehow. No idea what's gonna happen at this point


----------



## Canuck57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa sent me an email saying that they mixed up my order with somebody in ND. grrr...I guess i'm gonna have to ship it to that person somehow. No idea what's gonna happen at this point_

 


 and you were a "bagger" too...I feel for you!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa sent me an email saying that they mixed up my order with somebody in ND. grrr...I guess i'm gonna have to ship it to that person somehow. No idea what's gonna happen at this point_

 

That's a setback.....seems like Murphy's law is working overtime on your behalf not that it's a wanted happenstance by any means.

 Sorry to hear of the mix up.

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa sent me an email saying that they mixed up my order with somebody in ND. grrr...I guess i'm gonna have to ship it to that person somehow. No idea what's gonna happen at this point_

 

Let us know what happens. My bet is on Kingwa reimbursing both of you to ship your Compasses to each other.

 This situation reminds me of when I'd get a customer at work who, no matter what we did to sort out his issues with a machine, would end up having more. I'd say to them, "I'm sorry, you're what I call a cursed customer. Unlike the majority of customers, you're just getting all the bad luck." You seem to be the unluckiest customer so far.


----------



## driftingbunnies

I think i've decided to just keep it. Just too much hassle during finals time and then I won't be in my apartment until the last week of may. Then i'll be out of town from june to july...yeah...fml. Sometimes talking to him is very frustrating. makes me want to fly over there and just speak cantonese to him. Hopefully the person in ND isn't too upset about my configuration i wanted. After thinking about it, i'm not sure why i wanted all the outputs to output at the same time. I guess that is what happens when you have to wait 2 months for your product, you don't even know why you ordered it.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think i've decided to just keep it. Just too much hassle during finals time and then I won't be in my apartment until the last week of may. Then i'll be out of town from june to july...yeah...fml. Sometimes talking to him is very frustrating. makes me want to fly over there and just speak cantonese to him. Hopefully the person in ND isn't too upset about my configuration i wanted. After thinking about it, i'm not sure why i wanted all the outputs to output at the same time. I guess that is what happens when you have to wait 2 months for your product, you don't even know why you ordered it._

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles....again. You definitely have had the worst luck being a bagger and now this. FWIW, the standard Compass is so versatile that I'm sure you'll find out how to use the standard config the way you need to. Just yesterday, I had my OMZ DAC that I'm trying to sell hooked up to the Compass and using the SUPER button, was able to compare the OMZ and the Compass DAC while using the Compass HP Amp.

 Oh, and the Compass DAC is very close to the OMZ DAC. The Compass is a touch grainier than the OMZ, but I'm thinking the Compass will smooth out with burn-in.


----------



## bschray

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For mine i am using the ploytec driver also

 and all my stuff have sound from windows media classic to firefox to foobar to even games 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but i am using win xp_

 

I am interested in an ASIO driver that does not disable other windows sound. I went to Ploytec GmbH . check out the Delay Meter and selected the "USB ASIO driver for Windows" and this took me to USB 2 Audio - the low latency experience. Did you get your ASIO driver from www.usg-audio.com?


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bschray* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am interested in an ASIO driver that does not disable other windows sound. I went to Ploytec GmbH . check out the Delay Meter and selected the "USB ASIO driver for Windows" and this took me to USB 2 Audio - the low latency experience. Did you get your ASIO driver from www.usg-audio.com?_

 

yes..i got it from
USB 2 Audio - the low latency experience
 but i uses the beta driver for Win XP/Vista32
http://www.usb-audio.com/usb_asio_vista_beta.zip
 no issue with playing video, games, youtube etc
 i am using xp btw

 u can always try the trial version and see whether it will disable other windows sound or not


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no issue with playing video, games, youtube etc
 i am using xp btw_

 

I still wonder how you managed to do that. I use XP x64, but I can only get the Ploytec ASIO to work with ASIO-capable software. (As I would expect from an ASIO-USB driver.)


----------



## geremy

Silly question which is probably in this thread. I searched a bit and found lots of info but no answer: In the faq it says the power supply is switchable, but you have specify a voltage when ordering. Is the voltage specification just for the cable? Can I order both a 110 and a 220 cable? I would really like both.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still wonder how you managed to do that. I use XP x64, but I can only get the Ploytec ASIO to work with ASIO-capable software. (As I would expect from an ASIO-USB driver.)_

 

puzzled me also

 maybe is because i disabled the onboard soundcard from the bios





 therefore the program do not have any other place to point to except the usb driver 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or maybe you can try reinstalling or something


----------



## op2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *geremy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Silly question which is probably in this thread. I searched a bit and found lots of info but no answer: In the faq it says the power supply is switchable, but you have specify a voltage when ordering. Is the voltage specification just for the cable? Can I order both a 110 and a 220 cable? I would really like both._

 

There is no switch AFAIK. You choose 110 or 220V while ordering. But you can order any cable (plug-type) you need, as it is voltage-independent.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_puzzled me also

 maybe is because i disabled the onboard soundcard from the bios

 therefore the program do not have any other place to point to except the usb driver 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or maybe you can try reinstalling or something_

 

Ha, that's interesting, thanks. I could try that, I guess. I'll let you know if it works.

*EDIT:* No, it doesn't work for me. It's okay, I can live without HiFi sound from Youtube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (It would have been nice for games though.)


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha, that's interesting, thanks. I could try that, I guess. I'll let you know if it works.

*EDIT:* No, it doesn't work for me. It's okay, I can live without HiFi sound from Youtube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (It would have been nice for games though.)_

 

i guess you can contact polytec for support
Support for the USB ASIO driver


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
*EDIT:* No, it doesn't work for me. It's okay, I can live without HiFi sound from Youtube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (It would have been nice for games though.)_

 

Doesnt work in my setup either..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Btw, seems like from 1st June, the Compass promotional price will be over and the new price is fixed at USD330 ! Still a very good price for Compass IMHO..


----------



## Shizdan

Hey guys What Jumper settings or any other info i should do to the compass to get the best sound?

 Also, Since i have an OPA earth, does it contain any other op amps? or just the OPA earth in the compass?


----------



## geremy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no switch AFAIK. You choose 110 or 220V while ordering. But you can order any cable (plug-type) you need, as it is voltage-independent._

 

So to further clarify, I can plug either the 110V or the 220V cable into the same unit and both will work?

 Thanks.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys What Jumper settings or any other info i should do to the compass to get the best sound?

 Also, Since i have an OPA earth, does it contain any other op amps? or just the OPA earth in the compass?_

 

You should really play around with it to find the sound you prefer. So far, I've only listened to the Earth on neutral before setting it to soft-2 to burn-in. I vastly prefer the sound on neutral than on soft-2.

 I'm not sure if your seller bought any other OPAs with his Compass. However, the Compass is compatible with two other OPAs, the Moon and the Sun V2.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa sent me an email saying that they mixed up my order with somebody in ND. grrr...I guess i'm gonna have to ship it to that person somehow. No idea what's gonna happen at this point_

 

I definitely feel for you. I'd probably go insane after going through what you did. I hope you enjoy your Compass now that you have it though.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I'm not sure if your seller bought any other OPAs with his Compass. However, the Compass is compatible with two other OPAs, the Moon and the Sun V2.
_

 

Not to mention countless other "traditional style" or "chip" opamps (non-HDAM/transistor).


----------



## Shizdan

Thanks guys for the help. I know I ask a lot of questions but that's how I learn i guess lol


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not to mention countless other "traditional style" or "chip" opamps (non-HDAM/transistor)._

 

Of course, but it seems most people who have tried other non-HDAM chips tend to prefer the HDAMs by a fair amount.

 On my second day of Compass listening, I've put about another 15 hours on it on soft-2 with the Earth. The Compass sounded quite muddy with my Sextetts before I went to sleep, but that might just be how the Sextetts sound to me after listening to K500 for so long. However, right now the sound is as bright on soft-2 as it was on neutral with the Earth yesterday. The changes in sound during Compass burn-in is pretty wild. I can't wait to hear what other changes occur to the sound over the next 330 hours or so. I also can't wait to hear it with some Lambdas.


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *geremy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So to further clarify, I can plug either the 110V or the 220V cable into the same unit and both will work?

 Thanks._

 

No, I don't think so. I believe that Kingwa makes changes to the power supply section to make it work with 110 or 220. There is no dual/adjustable voltage supply Compass. This was discussed somewhere a few hunded pages ago...


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of course, but it seems most people who have tried other non-HDAM chips tend to prefer the HDAMs by a fair amount.
_

 

No doubt, and that includes me, but it's still fun to opamp roll


----------



## op2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *geremy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So to further clarify, I can plug either the 110V or the 220V cable into the same unit and both will work?

 Thanks._

 

Actually there is no specific 110V or 220V cable, they are all for general purpose with different kind of plugs. But you have to choose a 110V or 220V Compass. I quote from the Compass homepage:

 "Compass will come in 100-120V version and 220-240 versions, depending on the geographical location and customer’s choice. The reason *we don't make selectable voltage*, 1, we are afraid if customers choose the wrong voltage, it will burn the gear. 2, in low quality gear, you can't hear the sound effect with or without selectable switch, but in hi-quality gear, you can hear the difference not only with power selectable switch, but even with power cable."


----------



## fotomill

Hey head-fiers,

 I got my Compass on Monday. It took 18 days from order to delivery. It was opened and repacked by the Korean customs but all was clean and fine. What's funny is that there was no customs tax this time, while last time when I ordered my Nuforce Icon, which is much smaller than Compass, I paid 10% tax.

 I began to burn it in, continuously comparing it with my current reference setup, which is MacPro>optical>Carat Ruby>silver RCA>Nuforce Icon>K701. As for now, the Compass is still a little more muffled and less detailed than the reference. My HDAM is earth and I use the neutral setting. High, mid, low all is less resolving. Vocal sounds a little more vague. But I can hear it changing even after a couple of hours. I hope the Compass will eventually outdo the reference.

 I will post when there is a significant change in sound or when it excels the Ruby&Icon combo.


----------



## fotomill

Hey head-fiers,

 I got my Compass on Monday. It took 18 days from order to delivery. It was opened and repacked by the Korean customs but all was clean and fine. What's funny is that there was no customs tax this time, while last time when I ordered my Nuforce Icon, which is much smaller than Compass, I paid 10% tax.

 I began to burn it in, continuously comparing it with my current reference setup, which is MacPro>optical>Carat Ruby>silver RCA>Nuforce Icon>K701. As for now, the Compass is still a little more muffled and less detailed than the reference. My HDAM is earth and I use the neutral setting. High, mid, low all is less resolving. Vocal sounds a little more vague. But I can hear it changing even after a couple of hours. I hope the Compass will eventually outdo the reference.

 I will post when there is a significant change in sound or when it excels the Ruby&Icon combo.


----------



## fotomill

I don't know it was double posted.


----------



## Zhirc

At least about 180 -- 200 hours (+16 -- 20 hours for amp) combined burn-in, listening and playing behind with soft-2 and Earth. Could have lot more of course, but I decided to do burn-in mostly during day only. I don't know if the other settings would be better for my headphones and mind, but at first I want to do burn-in with Earth and soft-2 and not play with the jumpers and HDAM's at this point.

 Not sure if it's that my wooden ears can actually hear any difference or it's just my mind, but somehow the sound is less tiring than it was at the start. During less than 50 -- 100 hours of combined use I couldn't always listen to for long sessions, as there was something in the sound that made listening bit tiring. Now that feeling is basically gone and I think I can also hear bit more nuances, mostly on lossless songs, that weren't there at first time when I used Compass. It feels like sound is slightly more... accurate and natural now. Especially low-end bass and highs sounds clearer, IMO.

 Also discovered the difference within ASIO4ALL and Directsound can be very noticeable: I played Planescape: Torment during last week and later listened to it's soundtrack again. I was almost blown away again - a lot wider soundstage and details where just incredible. It didn't feel same at all and I wondered if the soundtrack in the game has been actually resampled and processed totally downwards.

 I'm also very happy that even my headphones, only moderate Sennheiser HD 595, got a such huge boost in sound quality, way bigger than I'd have expected from it's reviews and comments from forums. I've tried and used 595 with Compass amp only to test if the improvement would have come from only DAC or both DAC and Amp, and so compared the sound to the output of PC, TV and PSP - and the increase in detail, soundstage and boost in low-end and highs is still easily noticeable when only amp is used. I guess that I will use these headphones for a bit longer time than I originally thought... and that I have to finally accept the fact that even somewhat cheaper headphones may benefit a lot from dedicated amp and external DAC. Seems to be overally very good gear for a student and for those whose budget is limited. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, no device is perfect, so few small "cons" to mention:

 - Every time you open it, the smell conquers the small room easily. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 - Gain limits the usable volume range for efficient and low impedance headphones fiercely. The largest volume level for constant listening for me is just slightly above the point when the channel imbalance and such fades totally, about 7:00 - 7:30. However, it seems that now slightly bigger levels can be used due to burn-in...
 - It gets hot. Don't have a thermometer nearby, but I guess it's around 40 - 60 degree Celsius. Together with PC it heats the small room very nicely.


----------



## driftingbunnies

after two months of waiting it's just my luck that it arrives during finals week...this thread is killing me little by little


----------



## Skorpitarius

*eagerly awaiting his Compass to arrive ... *


----------



## Mingo

I do not think anyone has made a comparison of the Compass to the Heed Canamp.
 Would someone comment considering the use of AKG K701?
 If the amplifier is only used for cd playback, would Audio gd C-2C be a better choice than the Compass?
 TIA


----------



## Optional

Visiting a fellow head-fier this weekend to audition the compass and then probably purchase one for myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Super excited!


----------



## Optional

double post oops, silly internets.


----------



## DoYouRight

MY QUESTION IS! Why wouldn't he buy in a Wolfson 8740 when it cost's $8 and isn't it better? Than some older AD chip? How hard would it be to pop in the best dac chip you can buy? For a meager $20 tops? Thanks


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MY QUESTION IS! Why wouldn't he buy in a Wolfson 8740 when it cost's $8 and isn't it better? Than some older AD chip? How hard would it be to pop in the best dac chip you can buy? For a meager $20 tops? Thanks_

 

Email him and ask him. Maybe new isn't necessarily better or maybe he hasn't tried the Wolfson.


----------



## pete~

What I would like to know is what are the official specifications on this unit? 

 Its all very well having reviews but they are all subjective and will vary from one person to another.

 I would like to know basic specs such as output impedance, frequency response (to make sure it is flat and theres no cheating) distortion etc.


----------



## doping panda

Your best bet is to email Kingwa and ask him.

 Some further listening supports my observations from this morning. The sound of the Compass is definitely brighter and more fatiguing today than yesterday. I actually have stopped listening for the moment due to fatigue. Also, it seems as if the amp is more powerful today than yesterday. Yesterday, I was listening at about 8 o'clock while today I'm listening at about 7 o'clock. It's a possibility that due to increased brightness today that I had to turn it down because I'm rather sensitive to high frequencies.


----------



## pete~

he did not reply to my last email when I asked him about jitter rejection. He replied to all other previous emails though.


----------



## doping panda

Did you receive the auto-reply email that time? Or maybe it got sent to your spam box?


----------



## pete~

I'm sure I did receive auto reply yes. There's also abit of a language barrier so its not possible to enter into deep discussions with him.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I would like to know is what are the official specifications on this unit? 

 Its all very well having reviews but they are all subjective and will vary from one person to another.

 I would like to know basic specs such as output impedance, frequency response (to make sure it is flat and theres no cheating) distortion etc._

 

This *is* starting to stink A LOT like Andrea.....( granted it's a break from his usual MO )

 Then again I could be wrong...but my gut is telling me Andrea.

 Peete.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your best bet is to email Kingwa and ask him.

 Some further listening supports my observations from this morning. The sound of the Compass is definitely brighter and more fatiguing today than yesterday. I actually have stopped listening for the moment due to fatigue. Also, it seems as if the amp is more powerful today than yesterday. Yesterday, I was listening at about 8 o'clock while today I'm listening at about 7 o'clock. It's a possibility that due to increased brightness today that I had to turn it down because I'm rather sensitive to high frequencies._

 


 The thing is not to blame the compass for changes in sound. There are so many factors at play that its not possible to pin it down to one thing.

 For example try listening to your reference system daily for 2 weeks then stop listening for 2 weeks. When you come back to it, it should sound very different for a few hours or so until it sounds 'the same' again.

 I believe this is the effect of audio memory at play.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This *is* starting to stink A LOT like Andrea.....( granted it's a break from his usual MO )

 Then again I could be wrong...but my gut is telling me Andrea.

 Peete._

 


 I think you accused me of that a while ago when i first joined up then you apologised.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you accused me of that a while ago when i first joined up then you apologised._

 

Well if that is so I take it back Andrea...

 Get a life.

 Peete.


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MY QUESTION IS! Why wouldn't he buy in a Wolfson 8740 when it cost's $8 and isn't it better? Than some older AD chip? How hard would it be to pop in the best dac chip you can buy? For a meager $20 tops? Thanks_

 

It's not even $8, it's much lower than that.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/i...ml#post5591797



 I'm very interested with this Compass, I'll probably pick one soon.


----------



## samspotting

can anyone offer a comparison between super pro dac and compass?

 I am buying a piece of sound equiptment, thinking of either this or an audioengine as8 subwoofer, for my audioengine 2's.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zhirc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At least about 180 -- 200 hours (+16 -- 20 hours for amp) 
 Not sure if it's that my wooden ears can actually hear any difference or it's just my mind, but somehow the sound is less tiring than it was at the start. ._

 

Exactly. It was already less tiring for me from the word go compared to my previous setup of Bithead>D2000 and now its improving with burn-in. 

 Since my D2000 also is pretty new, I think I am also seeing the effect of headphone burn-in..so not really able to distinguish which is due to what. I used to hear this slight distortion especially in high pitched female vocals at the edge of the notes(with compass/bithead), now I am not hearing it. Thought it was due to Compass burn-in..but when I went back to the Bithead-setup couldn't hear it..couldn't hear it even when I plugged it directly to the laptop!


----------



## sachu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I would like to know is what are the official specifications on this unit? 

 Its all very well having reviews but they are all subjective and will vary from one person to another.

 I would like to know basic specs such as output impedance, frequency response (to make sure it is flat and theres no cheating) distortion etc._

 

This is an 'audiophile' product pete. You don't get to see specifications.


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MY QUESTION IS! Why wouldn't he buy in a Wolfson 8740 when it cost's $8 and isn't it better? Than some older AD chip? How hard would it be to pop in the best dac chip you can buy? For a meager $20 tops? Thanks_

 

I think the implementation of the circuit around the DAC chip might make a bigger difference than the DAC chip alone...the iBasso D10 also has the Wolfson chip, but I would be surprised if it sounds better or equally good to Compass because D10 is designed as a portable. 

 Since the new Little Dot DAC has the Wolfson chip, I guess we will know soon how they stack against each other when implemented in a non-portable design.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sarathcpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly. It was already less tiring for me from the word go compared to my previous setup of Bithead>D2000 and now its improving with burn-in. 

 Since my D2000 also is pretty new, I think I am also seeing the effect of headphone burn-in..so not really able to distinguish which is due to what. I used to hear this slight distortion especially in high pitched female vocals at the edge of the notes(with compass/bithead), now I am not hearing it. Thought it was due to Compass burn-in..but when I went back to the Bithead-setup couldn't hear it..couldn't hear it even when I plugged it directly to the laptop!_

 

From what I've heard, like most cans the D2000's need significant time to fully burn/settle in. I've experienced some of the issues that others have reported with Denon's, on both tubes and SS. As you probably know, there are a lot of mods that people do to them. I recently discussed recabling all of my cans with a vendor. I brought up some of the possible extra Denon mods, and he advised me to just keep them "as is" for at least 350 hours. It seemed he wasn't in favor of the mods, and stressed just giving them time to mature. I think the Denon's synergize very well with the A-GD gear, and overall I think they are really nice closed cans. For now, I'm just letting the Denon's mature and I'm enjoying the ride...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your best bet is to email Kingwa and ask him.

 Some further listening supports my observations from this morning. The sound of the Compass is definitely brighter and more fatiguing today than yesterday. I actually have stopped listening for the moment due to fatigue. Also, it seems as if the amp is more powerful today than yesterday. Yesterday, I was listening at about 8 o'clock while today I'm listening at about 7 o'clock. It's a possibility that due to increased brightness today that I had to turn it down because I'm rather sensitive to high frequencies._

 

Really strange that you can hear anything at that setting. Where on the clock does your Vol control stop? 

 Mine is up against the stop where you say yours is too loud. I listen to low impedance cans loud around 11:00-11:30 on low gain setting.

 At 7:00 my Pot is as silent as the POT will get.

 .


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really strange that you can hear anything at that setting. Where on the clock does your Vol control stop? 

 Mine is up against the stop where you say yours is too loud. I listen to low impedance cans loud around 11:00-11:30 on low gain setting.

 At 7:00 my Pot is as silent as the POT will get.

 ._

 

That does seem strange. I know my gear was shipped as of 4/26, the C-2C gain revision date. Both pots on my Compass and C-2C seem perfect and provide a nice, functional sweep range...and yes, both with low and higher-impedance cans. I've had zero issues with either piece of gear....


----------



## moodyrn

This is interesting. Like les stated earlier, 7:00 is where my compass stops.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is interesting. Like les stated earlier, 7:00 is where my compass stops._

 

I had my knob mis-aligned on my Zero when i got it. It was "Zero'd" out at 6:00. So that made it kinda screwy till I fixed it. I can't imagine running out of Vol Control at 8:00 on the Compass??

 .


----------



## Solid Snake

Well after extensive listening, I have been really enjoying them until now.

 Having a strange issue all of a sudden.

 The sound is very dirty/scratchy, and skipping all over the place. I tried removing the top panel and then remove the opa-earth module and replacing it.

 I thought maybe it was my computer at first so I hooked it up to my PPAv2 amp with the TC-7510 DAC. No problems what-so-ever.

 I pretty much tried everything I could think of. Looks like I am going to email Kingwa and see what he says about it...


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is interesting. Like les stated earlier, 7:00 is where my compass stops._

 

Yeah, hopefully the Panda can do some further testing and fully isolate the issue. Clearly something isn't standard/right...


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really strange that you can hear anything at that setting. Where on the clock does your Vol control stop? 

 Mine is up against the stop where you say yours is too loud. I listen to low impedance cans loud around 11:00-11:30 on low gain setting.

 At 7:00 my Pot is as silent as the POT will get.

 ._

 

Sorry, looks like I was off a bit by the clock pot. I should have looked more carefully, but I've never been good at giving visual estimates. My pot stops at 7:00. So, I was listening at about 7:45 earlier for a comfortable listening level and about 8:30 which was where my Compass would have been yesterday is louder than comfortable for me.This is on high gain. Also, I'm not sure if this is normal, but I can hear some of the music where the pot stops on high gain.

 Edit: No, it was still there. I just couldn't hear it with that particular song since it's very soft.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Solid Snake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well after extensive listening, I have been really enjoying them until now.

 Having a strange issue all of a sudden.

 The sound is very dirty/scratchy, and skipping all over the place. I tried removing the top panel and then remove the opa-earth module and replacing it.

 I thought maybe it was my computer at first so I hooked it up to my PPAv2 amp with the TC-7510 DAC. No problems what-so-ever.

 I pretty much tried everything I could think of. Looks like I am going to email Kingwa and see what he says about it..._

 

What Input? Try another input. Move the selector knob thru all it's positions. Try another HDAM or OPAmp if you have one.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, looks like I was off a bit by the clock pot. I should have looked more carefully, but I've never been good at giving visual estimates. My pot stops at 7:00. So, I was listening at about 7:45 earlier for a comfortable listening level and about 8:30 which was where my Compass would have been yesterday is louder than comfortable for me.This is on high gain. Also, I'm not sure if this is normal, but I can hear some of the music where the pot stops on high gain._

 

It will sound better and you use a better portion of your pot if you witch the gain setting to low. You also sound like you have 'New Ears"!

 That POT will never be dead silent as described on the Compass website.

 .


----------



## Solid Snake

Coax at the moment. Do not have other HDAM or opamps at the moment...


----------



## sarathcpt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really strange that you can hear anything at that setting. Where on the clock does your Vol control stop? 

 Mine is up against the stop where you say yours is too loud. I listen to low impedance cans loud around 11:00-11:30 on low gain setting.

 At 7:00 my Pot is as silent as the POT will get.

 ._

 

Mine stops at 7 too. However, I can still hear the music faintly at that..guess thats what you meant by 'as silent as the POT will get' ? My normal listening level is around 8 and rarely near 9.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Solid Snake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Coax at the moment. Do not have other HDAM or opamps at the moment..._

 

Try the Hello Kitty Optical cable and cycle the selector to see if it is the issue. Or I forgot, try USB IN.

 .


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, looks like I was off a bit by the clock pot. I should have looked more carefully, but I've never been good at giving visual estimates. My pot stops at 7:00. So, I was listening at about 7:45 earlier for a comfortable listening level and about 8:30 which was where my Compass would have been yesterday is louder than comfortable for me.This is on high gain. Also, I'm not sure if this is normal, but I can hear some of the music where the pot stops on high gain._

 

Ok, it sounds like you're in good shape. I'm concerned that you feel 8:30 is too loud. What cans are you using? I only kick my Compass into high gain mode when I'm running 250+ ohm. I can get really nice, functional sweep on higher-impedance cans in high gain mode. The same goes for lower-impedance cans in low gain mode. Take some time and do some tuning, it should work out....


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It will sound better and you use a better portion of your pot if you witch the gain setting to low. You also sound like you have 'New Ears"!

 That POT will never be dead silent as described on the Compass website_

 

I switched my Compass to low gain. It's noticeably less loud although 9:00 is still louder than I would normally listen.

 Yeah, the pot isn't dead silent, but it's hardly a concern since I'll probably never be listening at that setting except if I picked up some ultra-sensitive IEMs like the Etymotics which is something I'm seriously considering since I don't have a strong closed/IEM option right now.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, it still sounds like you're in good shape. I'm concerned that you feel 8:30 is too loud. What cans are you using? I only kick my Compass into high gain mode when I'm running 250+ ohm..._

 

I'm using my K500 at the moment. I just switched to low gain and I can probably hit 9:00 depending on the music, but I'm probably going to stay at about 8:30. I don't think you should feel too concerned because I listen at a fairly low volume level most of the time.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, it still sounds like you're in good shape. I'm concerned that you feel 8:30 is too loud. What cans are you using? I only kick my Compass into high gain mode when I'm running 250+ ohm..._

 

I've run my 300 ohm Senns with Low gain with no problems.

 .


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've run my 300 ohm Senns with Low gain with no problems.

 ._

 

I think even on low gain I probably wouldn't go past 12:00 with any normal dynamic headphone.


----------



## Solid Snake

Well, looks like it has something to do with my coax splitter. removed that and the problem is gone. Strange thing is, I never had such a big issue until now while using that coax splitter.

 I will give updates on the situation.

 Thanks Les_Garten for trying to help me out....


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've run my 300 ohm Senns with Low gain with no problems.

 ._

 

Yep, me too...I can run Beyer's and Senn's in low gain mode no problem as well. To be hardware friendly I just switch to high gain mode when I'm plugging in more demanding cans. I like to make sure I'm in low gain mode when running Denon's and Grado's though, this thing does have power...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Solid Snake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, looks like it has something to do with my coax splitter. removed that and the problem is gone. Strange thing is, I never had such a big issue until now while using that coax splitter.

 I will give updates on the situation.

 Thanks Les_Garten for trying to help me out...._

 

Hi Snake...

 Was it working fine with the your Compass previous to this event ? Try moving the splitter around to see if the noise can be eliminated or made worse. It might be EMI/RFI or a poor connection somewhere. Have you cleaned the contacts on the splitter and the cables themselves ? Was anything added to the setup in the last day or so, or was moved ?

 Peete.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think even on low gain I probably wouldn't go past 12:00 with any normal dynamic headphone._

 

Yeah, things get really intense for me around 12:00 too. There's certainly no shortage of power. I can't get my Darkvoice much past 10:00-11:00 without risking brain damage...

 It sounds like you're in good shape, let her burn/mature and enjoy the power...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Low gain for me is high gain for you guys (13 db on the test unit) but I rarely get the Compass over 9 o'clock using 300 ohm HD650's and around 10 o'clock using AKG 240M's, 600 ohm.

 The C-2C is even more powerful. Rarely do I get it above 8:30 with the 650's. Mine is the older version with higher gain than the current revision C-2C.

 Neither unit has issues with channel imbalance except at the extreme low volume setting which for me is next to useless for practical listening purposes.That is a drawback of all pots of this construction type for the most part. Maybe Curra can chime in with his thoughts on the Gold Point in his C-2C for comparison.

 I would imagine the way the Alps pots are wired into the amp circuit has a little to do with why you'll hear a signal with higher efficiency cans when the Vol setting is supposed to be all the way off. I think the parallel wiring of the pot allows some signal to leak through. A by product of that method of employ perhaps ?...although I could be wrong about that.

 Peete.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Low gain for me is high gain for you guys (13 db on the test unit) but I rarely get the Compass over 9 o'clock using 300 ohm HD650's and around 10 o'clock using AKG 240M's, 600 ohm.

 The C-2C is even more powerful. Rarely do I get it above 8:30 with the 650's. Mine is the older version with higher gain than the current revision C-2C.

 Neither unit has issues with channel imbalance except at the extreme low volume setting which for me is next to useless for practical listening purposes.That is a drawback of all pots of this construction type for the most part. Maybe Curra can chime in with his thoughts on the Gold Point in his C-2C for comparison.

 I would imagine the way the Alps pots are wired into the amp circuit has a little to do with why you'll hear a signal with higher efficiency cans when the Vol setting is supposed to be all the way off. I think the parallel wiring of the pot allows some signal to leak through. A by product of that method of emply perhaps ?...although I could be wrong about that.

 Peete._

 

[size=x-small]I agree, and I couldn't handle these higher clock values for a lengthy session. I've been pushing things at times for testing purposes since the gain issue was surfaced, and it has clearly been resolved. I listen at lower levels while I'm working, and I haven't experienced any imbalances(my C-2C is gain revised), so far I'm just really impressed...[/size]


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Solid Snake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, looks like it has something to do with my coax splitter. removed that and the problem is gone. Strange thing is, I never had such a big issue until now while using that coax splitter.

 I will give updates on the situation.

 Thanks Les_Garten for trying to help me out...._

 


 I remember reading in another thread of someone having a similar issue with their c2c. After removing the splitter, everything was fine. I guess this means the audio-gd stuff is very sensitive, and would reveal any flaws in both recordings and connections. To me this is a good thing. I can remember using an rca splitter between my receiver and a previous dac. I could never hear a difference with it connected. With the compass, I could easily hear a loss in quality with it in the chain.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I would like to know is what are the official specifications on this unit? 

 Its all very well having reviews but they are all subjective and will vary from one person to another.

 I would like to know basic specs such as output impedance, frequency response (to make sure it is flat and theres no cheating) distortion etc._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sachu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is an 'audiophile' product pete. You don't get to see specifications. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, maybe this would help you guys :

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 Through my personal experience with Audio GD, I have bought some stuffs from them and I find them very helpful and cooperative when it comes to any information I require, I just need to just drop in a line and usually get the reply very quick. I personally feel it helps me being more knowledgeable and not just smart.

 I personally also feel the amount of information he gives about his products far exceed many other companies, like components used, board pictures, circuit diagrams etc, so I don't really think the cheating factor comes anywhere.. In any case I tend to go by my ears..

 Anyway, what I am trying to say is, I think Audio GD is very helpful if you need any specific information on the gears, and it would be more helpful to you and everyone following this thread to just drop in a line to Audio GD and share the info.

 PS. @ Curra - if you find it worthwhile, maybe you could insert the specs link of Compass on the first page or FAQ..


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, maybe this would help you guys :

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 Through my personal experience with Audio GD, I have bought some stuffs from them and I find them very helpful and cooperative when it comes to any information I require, I just need to just drop in a line and usually get the reply very quick. I personally feel it helps me being more knowledgeable and not just smart.

 I personally also feel the amount of information he gives about his products far exceed many other companies, like components used, board pictures, circuit diagrams etc, so I don't really think the cheating factor comes anywhere.. In any case I tend to go by my ears..

 Anyway, what I am trying to say is, I think Audio GD is very helpful if you need any specific information on the gears, and it would be more helpful to you and everyone following this thread to just drop in a line to Audio GD and share the info.

 PS. @ Curra - if you find it worthwhile, maybe you could insert the specs link of Compass on the first page or FAQ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I totally agree with what you're saying. The customer service provided by A-GD is exemplary. We are in North America though and there's clearly a time zone difference. Kingwa is a very responsive guy, but at some point he has to sleep like the rest of us humans. At times there will be folks testing and tuning their gear that are hoping for "immediate" feedback. I'm very glad to help out when and where I can. This thread has helped me out big time, I'm sure others feel the same way. Giving back is the right thing to do, and it's certainly no knock on A-GD Customer Service at all. At some point A-GD has to sleep. I'm sure guys like Doping Panda understand that, and again, I'm sure the guys here were glad to help him out...IMO, there's no issue, it's all good...


----------



## Solid Snake

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Snake...

 Was it working fine with the your Compass previous to this event ? Try moving the splitter around to see if the noise can be eliminated or made worse. It might be EMI/RFI or a poor connection somewhere. Have you cleaned the contacts on the splitter and the cables themselves ? Was anything added to the setup in the last day or so, or was moved ?

 Peete._

 

Everything was okay at first but the next day it started to get really bad so I am pretty sure the contacts were clean and everything was connected firmly.

 No major changes except adding the Compass from my old rig (TC-7510>PPAv2). No connections were changed except moving the coax from my TC-7510 to the compass. The PPAv2 was left out of the equation as well so everything was coming from the Compass. The splitter is something I can live without though. It was just there for me to go from Compass to 5.1 speakers.

 Thanks Peete

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remember reading in another thread of someone having a similar issue with their c2c. After removing the splitter, everything was fine. I guess this means the audio-gd stuff is very sensitive, and would reveal any flaws in both recordings and connections. To me this is a good thing. I can remember using an rca splitter between my receiver and a previous dac. I could never hear a difference with it connected. With the compass, I could easily hear a loss in quality with it in the chain._

 

That is what I thought as well. My TC-7510>PPAv2 setup did not do this at all so I figured the Compass is just very sensitive or defective (which I doubt). It may have something to do with the impedence balance? Who knows...


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I totally agree with what you're saying. The customer service provided by A-GD is exemplary. We are in North America though and there's clearly a time zone difference. Kingwa is a very responsive guy, but at some point he has to sleep like the rest of us humans. At times there will be folks testing and tuning their gear that are hoping for "immediate" feedback. I'm very glad to help out when and where I can. This thread has helped me out big time, I'm sure others feel the same way. Giving back is the right thing to do, and it's certainly no knock on A-GD Customer Service at all. At some point A-GD has to sleep. I'm sure guys like Doping Panda understand that, and again, I'm sure the guys here were glad to help him out...IMO, there's no issue, it's all good..._

 

I understand what you are saying and I also agree to it, but what I was trying to say is that its better to ask and then post a comment, I mean there might be some informations not available on thread or even on Audio GD web page, and in that case its better to approach the company directly rather than coming to a conclusion as to why that information isn't provided. That is what I was trying to say and it really has very little to do with time difference. The rest I absolutely agree with you..


----------



## oldschool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think even on low gain I probably wouldn't go past 12:00 with any normal dynamic headphone._

 

Generalized statements like that are not precise. It would be true only for the music you listen to from your media sources.

 I haven't seen any of you guys mentioning anything about your music's mastering volume. The same album issued on CD (and ripped CDs is what you all probably listen to) in '85 and reissued in '05 probably has more than 10db volume difference.

 So if you listen to a Miles Davis CD from the 80es and I listen to the latest Slipknot CD, guess which one is louder, even at the same settings and using the same earphones?


----------



## op2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, maybe this would help you guys :

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 [...]

_

 

Thanks for this link, never noticed it on their website! 

 If my exceptionally complex calculations are true, then this thing would output ~1.4W @ 62Ohm (K701) and that's a lot


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I understand what you are saying and I also agree to it, but what I was trying to say is that its better to ask and then post a comment, I mean there might be some informations not available on thread or even on Audio GD web page, and in that case its better to approach the company directly rather than coming to a conclusion as to why that information isn't provided. That is what I was trying to say and it really has very little to do with time difference. The rest I absolutely agree with you..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

[size=x-small]I hear you loud and clear. For some reason some people seem to post strange and/or totally impatient questions to this thread that should be addressed directly with A-GD if they really do have a legitimate question at all. I'm continually amazed at how responsive A-GD is. I honestly think Kingwa should sleep more, but I respect his work ethic 110%++++. He's my type of professional, and I'm putting my money where my mouth is....

 I think scenarios like Doping Panda's and others brought to the thread tonight are perfect reasons why this thread exists, and I'm very glad if any of my responses helped them out at all. These guys are just clearly music lovers wanting to enjoy their music...
 [/size]


----------



## Solid Snake

Quick update:

 So far, so good. Everything sounds so smooth and crystal clear. Now I understand why splitters are somewhat disliked here at Headfi....

 Hopefully my little problem/solution can help others as well...

 Cheers


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for this link, never noticed it on their website! 

 If my exceptionally complex calculations are true, then this thing would output ~1.4W @ 62Ohm (K701) and that's a lot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Glad you found it useful, that link has been there for quite a while, you need to click on the specifications (above the dimensions and price in the Compass page), just like most of Audio GD's other gears, they don't write the technical specs on the product page, but provide a link to it.


----------



## op2003

Noticed it, after you published the link. I memorized the entire page, but always thought it's just a headline


----------



## godluvsxs

Emmm ... a lil bit of off topic, anyone one tried to place some Vibrapod isolator - The Vibrapod Company under their Compass? Quite alot of users from worldwide reporting audible improvement using them underneath CDP, DAC, AMP, Vinyl ...

 Most important is their price is kinda cheap, USD6 per isolator


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Solid Snake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Everything was okay at first but the next day it started to get really bad so I am pretty sure the contacts were clean and everything was connected firmly.<<<SNIP>>>

_

 

SS,
 Here's what you want to use. The itter specs are non existant. I use one to feed my Compass and a set of Digital studio Monitors. It is VERY Nice.

ATI DMM104 1X4 Digital Format Converter | BSWUSA.com

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *godluvsxs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Emmm ... a lil bit of off topic, anyone one tried to place some Vibrapod isolator - The Vibrapod Company under their Compass? Quite alot of users from worldwide reporting audible improvement using them underneath CDP, DAC, AMP, Vinyl ...

 Most important is their price is kinda cheap, USD6 per isolator 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

How susceptible do you think electrons are to Vibration?

 .


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How susceptible do you think electrons are to Vibration?

 ._

 

x2


----------



## Aleatoris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How susceptible do you think electrons are to Vibration?

 ._

 

Shhh! If you respond the tweak supporters will get angry. And when they come around, so do the skeptics! Pretty soon, we'll have another one of those ugly debate threads.

 ...Let's sit back and enjoy the music.


----------



## godluvsxs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How susceptible do you think electrons are to Vibration?

 ._

 

Emmm ... doesnt has a clue ... but I believe there must be some "effect" there ... as Kingwa mentioned before, you must do the practical part instead of blindly following the theory, best part is some of the Vibraport dealers are offering 30 days Money Back Guarantee 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess it's no harm to try with this scheme


----------



## Pricklely Peete

No harm at all. It's your money after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Electrons are subatomic particles and they can get very confused with vibration. Result: particles that both don't know where they are and don't know where they're going. Jeez, don't you folks read your Heisenberg.


----------



## joewatch

oops wrong post


----------



## Bostonears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bostonears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you think jitter makes much of a difference, see if you can get a straight answer to a very simple question: assuming we're talking about levels of jitter that are not so horrible as to cause bit errors, what does digital jitter sound like when it gets converted to analog audio? I have yet to receive a plausible answer to that question from anyone, whether audiophile or high end equipment manufacturer._

 

It's odd quoting myself, but I just saw a very interesting article on the topic of jitter by Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio in the May/June 2009 issue of Positive Feedback. It's the most thoughtful and intelligent discussion of the topic that I have seen, stripping away the usual audiophile bombast. While Nugent certainly advocates for reducing jitter as much as possible, he cites subjective listening tests in which, "the majority could not hear any difference between the tracks, even though the jitter ranged from 0 ns to 1000 ns." [Jitter is usually measured in "ps" or picoseconds, so 1000 nanoseconds would be an immense amount of jitter.] Nugent's position is that the tests show, "just how unresolving most audiophile systems are," and that it would take a trained ear to hear the effects of jitter. He even notes that in some cases, jitter could have a modest beneficial effect on sound, similar to that of adding dither.


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seemed he wasn't in favor of the mods, and stressed just giving them time to mature. I think the Denon's synergize very well with the A-GD gear, and overall I think they are really nice closed cans. For now, I'm just letting the Denon's mature and I'm enjoying the ride..._

 


 I agree 100% with this sentiment. I left my D2000's alone until they had over 600hrs, and really liked them as is. But the MarkL mods are cheap if you DIY and completely reversible, so I decided to try them. I did the partial mods and I really liked the change in bass, a noticable tightning. Its still there but its more under control now. This gives the cans a better balance overall and improves the imaging.

 I also just recently made a cheap replacement cable from Mogami mini star quad, due mostly to needing a slightly longer cable than stock. I was quite surprised that I could clearly hear an improvement in the high frequencies, a little smoother and more detailed. My wife even noticed the change. I was so excited by this I might try making another style cable just to compare the results.

 My point is to not be afraid to experiment with mods, let your ears be your guide, just make sure you can undo the mod if you don't like it.

 Mark


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bostonears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's odd quoting myself, but I just saw a very interesting article on the topic of jitter by Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio in the May/June 2009 issue of Positive Feedback. It's the most thoughtful and intelligent discussion of the topic that I have seen, stripping away the usual audiophile bombast. While Nugent certainly advocates for reducing jitter as much as possible, he cites subjective listening tests in which, "the majority could not hear any difference between the tracks, even though the jitter ranged from 0 ns to 1000 ns." [Jitter is usually measured in "ps" or picoseconds, so 1000 nanoseconds would be an immense amount of jitter.] Nugent's position is that the tests show, "just how unresolving most audiophile systems are," and that it would take a trained ear to hear the effects of jitter. He even notes that in some cases, jitter could have a modest beneficial effect on sound, similar to that of adding dither._

 

I was just going to say that. Quoting yourself is a sign of Schizophrenia!

 I've read a lot about the "perception" of jitter.

 With Today's gear, someone who starts analyzing gear and mentioning Jitter should be strongly subjected to cross examination for BS coefficient.

 .


----------



## ecclesand

I think quoting yourself....akin to talking to yourself...is supposedly a sign of intelligence. However, if you start answering yourself, it's a sign you're as crazy as a sh_thouse rat!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think quoting yourself....akin to talking to yourself...is supposedly a sign of intelligence. However, if you start answering yourself, it's a sign you're as crazy as a sh_thouse rat!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm with ya there!

 .


----------



## Solid Snake

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SS,
 Here's what you want to use. The itter specs are non existant. I use one to feed my Compass and a set of Digital studio Monitors. It is VERY Nice.

ATI DMM104 1X4 Digital Format Converter | BSWUSA.com

 ._

 

Thanks les_garten, 

 I'll keep these in mind...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Solid Snake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks les_garten, 

 I'll keep these in mind..._

 

I know it's kinda High $$$ but it is a great solution if you need multiple SPDIF outputs and they all need to be clean.

 .


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bostonears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's odd quoting myself, but I just saw a very interesting article on the topic of jitter by Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio in the May/June 2009 issue of Positive Feedback. It's the most thoughtful and intelligent discussion of the topic that I have seen, stripping away the usual audiophile bombast. While Nugent certainly advocates for reducing jitter as much as possible, he cites subjective listening tests in which, "the majority could not hear any difference between the tracks, even though the jitter ranged from 0 ns to 1000 ns." [Jitter is usually measured in "ps" or picoseconds, so 1000 nanoseconds would be an immense amount of jitter.] Nugent's position is that the tests show, "just how unresolving most audiophile systems are," and that it would take a trained ear to hear the effects of jitter. He even notes that in some cases, jitter could have a modest beneficial effect on sound, similar to that of adding dither._

 

You can get an idea of how jitter sounds and whether it makes a difference in your system here (sample file downloads of various jitter levels):

The Test: Can You Hear Jitter? | Welcome to HDD audio

 The second jitter test is based on a track recommended by Steve Nugent:

Is jitter audible? The jitter test 2. | Welcome to HDD audio

 I'll do these tests once my Compass finishes burn-in.


----------



## MysteryMachine

Awesome I ordered my compass on 5/2 and it shipped today! My first headphone amp.

 On the subject of jitter I used to use a Monarchy DIP (a processor for fixing jitter issues) between my DVD Player and my Receiver and there was a definite improvement with it on or off - even my wife could hear it. The bass was tighter and cleaner. But after having it for years it shocked me a couple years ago so I threw it out (in hindsight I should have taken it apart and seen if I could find the short but that was before I found out about headphone amps etc where I could have used it - I really didn't have a use for it in my current theater setup)


----------



## csroc

Well it looks like my "final" Compass should be shipping today based on the email I just received confirming my address & phone #. Will be nice to finally see what the design looks like!


----------



## chum_2000_uk

After putting around 300 hours on the Compass and Moon (mostly in soft 2 for burn in, but sometimes putting into bright for listening) I decided to have a change and try the Earth. So now having a quick listen to Earth in Neutral. 

 I'd got so used to the sound of the Moon, I had forgotten how smooth it was! Obviously this is the start of burn in for the earth and I shouldn't really compare just yet but there are some things I really like about the earth right now and some things which hopefully will get better with burn in. The highs seems very detailed, and I am definitely hearing some details in songs that I hadn't heard so clearly before. I think it seems more forward than the Moon. However, at the moment the highs can be quite grainy and sometimes they seem to not have the same definition/separation as I was used to with the Moon. The bass is also similar, there seems to be plenty of it, but it doesn't seem as tight as with my Moon with 300 hours on it. I'm sure this will change over the course of the next few hundred hours. Overall I am liking the Earth though, to me it seems a little more analytical than the Moon... so I think in time I may use the Moon when I want a perhaps more warm and musical sound, whereas when I want to listen to the details more maybe I will use the Earth. With the Earth, I feel as though any hint of the much talked about darkness or "veil" of the HD650's has gone.

 What are your guys thoughts about my findings? This is the first time I have written down my findings when listening to audio gear - this is only my second HP amp, I had the Zero previously. So I guess I am looking for validation... I know there is the possibility that all I have written is just nonsense!

 I have been listening all the while when writing this. Its like having a brand new HP amp again! I love it


----------



## op2003

Compass arrived today (ordered 19th Apr) and it's in perfect condition. Will listen to it after work, but so far the build quality seems exceptional for the price paid.


----------



## pete~

I have heard rumours that the compass is nothing but a reworked zero dac design. Is this true? 

 They do appear to use the same dac chip.


----------



## op2003

You can take a look at the Compass design here and judge for yourself.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can take a look at the Compass design here and judge for yourself._

 

Don't waste your time op2003...pete~ = Andrea, which means a constant and never ending circle jerk.

 Peete.


----------



## XXII

I've finally given in to all the hype and placed an order for a Compass just to see what all the fuss is about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are there any impressions with Audio-Technica and the Compass?

 From reading impressions, I gather that the DAC of the compass is higher performance than the amp (compared to other products). Is this correct?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Actually XXII most agree the amp is the better half of the Compass...although the DAC is good in it's own right.

 As for the AT's I'm sure someone will chime in about those cans fairly soon.

 Peete.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XXII* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From reading impressions, I gather that the DAC of the compass is higher performance than the amp (compared to other products). Is this correct?_

 

I believe Kingwa himself considers the amp the superior part of the Compass. I would say the DAC is the slightly 'better' part. But simply from the fact that there's no real consensus on this point I think you can safely draw the conclusion that the quality of DAC and amp are actually quite evenly matched. Which is not a common thing in its own right for DAC/amps in this price bracket.


----------



## XXII

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe Kingwa himself considers the amp the superior part of the Compass. I would say the DAC is the slightly 'better' part. But simply from the fact that there's no real consensus on this point I think you can safely draw the conclusion that the quality of DAC and amp are actually quite evenly matched. Which is not a common thing in its own right for DAC/amps in this price bracket._

 

I guess which is better is all relative to the competition. I've read impressions that says it is almost as good as the oritek DAC, beats the corda opera DAC etc. but haven't read impressions on how it compares to the amp competition.

 I also take some of the impressions with a grain of salt since FOTM seems to have kicked into overdrive for the compass


----------



## Ganderson

I got THE email for my Compass + Earth & Moon OPA...

 Ordered: 5/4
 Tracking # sent: 5/13

 Not bad turnaround!

 This will be my first experience with EMS shipping so I'm curious how this is going to work out.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XXII* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess which is better is all relative to the competition. I've read impressions that says it is almost as good as the oritek DAC, beats the corda opera DAC etc. but haven't read impressions on how it compares to the amp competition.

 I also take some of the impressions with a grain of salt since FOTM seems to have kicked into overdrive for the compass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haha, never leave your scepticism at the door when entering head-fi! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I must say that, from my own (limited) experience, it is actually much easier to compare DACs than amps. Judging relative qualitive seems more straightforward when it comes to DACs, with amps there's so many aspects to it that it gets much harder to get to a "black and white"-conclusion.

 I actually just now did a very short (quick and dirty) reevaluation of my comparison with the Corda Opera and also included the Reference One as a separate source. Conclusion is basically the same as in my review of a few months ago....only more so. That is to say that both the DAC and the amp of the Compass simply amaze me with how well they perform and particularly the transparency and focus of the amp is really striking. I can't escape the feeling that it has actually improved quite a lot from the last time I listened to it critically when it had about 300 hours of burn-in on it. (Believe it or not.)

 Oh, and for those who are curious about it, I also finally got round to using the Audio-gd power cord with the Compass. Result: the difference with a stock power cord is actually not even subtle. Especially when listening critically the improvement in all aspects of the sound (both of the DAC and the amp) is quite significant. Whether it's worth 75$ to you is still a personal choice, but certainly with well recorded music with a lot of complex musical information it really takes it to a higher level.

 Hm, I'm waxing lyrical, I believe. That's the result of listening to it critically again, instead of using it just for listening while I work. (Which is the function it normally performs.)

 Ahum, yeah (clears throat), scepticism is good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways, there's not much of a risk to it. If you don't like it you can probably easily sell it again and get all your money back, certainly after the price goes up at the end of this month.


----------



## XXII

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ganderson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got THE email for my Compass + Earth & Moon OPA...

 Ordered: 5/4
 Tracking # sent: 5/13

 Not bad turnaround!

 This will be my first experience with EMS shipping so I'm curious how this is going to work out._

 

Wow that's great! I just ordered today and was told it would take a month...


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, and for those who are curious about it, I also finally got round to using the Audio-gd power cord with the Compass._

 

Could you describe for us the construction of the power cord? Is it solid core or stranded, braided or twisted, what gauge, etc. Thanks.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkhalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you describe for us the construction of the power cord? Is it solid core or stranded, braided or twisted, what gauge, etc. Thanks._

 

Well, I can't answer you fully, because for that I would have to take it apart (again). I did have to put a Schuko plug on it myself (I ordered them without plugs) and that was quite challenge because the wires used are really very rigid and thick. It consists of 1 ground wire (simple speaker cable) and two wires for both 'poles' (so that's 5 wires in total). Of those last 4 wires, two are twisted and two aren't (I believe, can't tell you which ones though). They're stranded and quite a large gauge (maybe someone else has actually measured it and can chime in). The whole comes in a techflex sleeve with connectors that look the spitting image of Oyaide connectors (Chinese copy?). That's about all.


----------



## pete~

I got my compass today but i am having problems.

 Kingwa told me that i would not have ground loop problems but I am getting a loud hum after connecting it to my power amplifier. 
 I have tried cutting the IEC earth but nothing has helped. 

 Can anybody please help me to solve this problem?


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my compass today but i am having problems.

 Kingwa told me that i would not have ground loop problems but I am getting a loud hum after connecting it to my power amplifier. 
 I have tried cutting the IEC earth but nothing has helped. 

 Can anybody please help me to solve this problem?_

 

When did you order it? I didnt think you'd ever get around to buying it after worrying about tech specs and mentioning rumors.

 How about you post pics of your setup, we'll see if you can help you then.


----------



## pete~

I ordered it before posting about that thankyou. 

 I dont want your help because you dont seem to believe me which implies that I am lying.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered it before posting about that thankyou. 

 I dont want your help because you dont seem to believe me which implies that I am lying._

 

That's mature.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's mature.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

And very evasive of course. Now the fun starts.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

What did I say earlier today ?..."a constant and endless circle jerk". (slaps head).

 Dro...evasive just like who ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## jjo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XXII* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are there any impressions with Audio-Technica and the Compass?_

 

I tried ATH-A2000X briefly with Compass and it wasn't bad. Didn't do proper listening, because my (first) Compass was the original higher gain version and the gain is a bit too high for ATs. For Ultrasones it's been good though.

 I did get my second Compass with lower gain today though. Starting burn in any minute 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But for me it was so good that I ordered a second one, so I guess that tells something.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dro...evasive just like who ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Yup.


----------



## Skorpitarius

Got email from 'Cherry' saying my Compass shipped out this morning and I have a tracking # via DHL ... still in Hong Kong ...
 Good news , for sure seeing as how they're probably swamped with orders at this point eh ?


----------



## comedian

I've been reading this thread since Christmas and I've managed to resist placing an order.

 Until now.

 There goes remains of my willpower and I can't wait, I just need to decide whether it's worth updating my headphones.


----------



## driftingbunnies

if your headphones consist of only the sr125, e2c, and PFE...then i would suggest you do so. However, you should be able to notice a difference when you use the compass. Just not as much as you should compared to if you had better headphones.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What did I say earlier today ?..."a constant and endless circle jerk". (slaps head).

 Dro...evasive just like who ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

I have had to report you to the forum admin pete because you continually failed to believe me that I was not andrea and you continue to accuse me.

 Look at how others have 'joined in now'. You are tarnishing my reputation for something I havent done.


----------



## comedian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if your headphones consist of only the sr125, e2c, and PFE...then i would suggest you do so. However, you should be able to notice a difference when you use the compass. Just not as much as you should compared to if you had better headphones._

 

I've been putting it off for too long anyway.

 Cheers for the advice.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

pete~ by all means put me on your ignore list...in fact I insist you do so.

 Peete.


----------



## zeroibis

OK so I got everything in order and am ready to buy I just want to know if I should send an e-mail before the buy because I want to get all 3 OPAs or how I go about ordering the extra 2 with my order.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK so I got everything in order and am ready to buy I just want to know if I should send an e-mail before the buy because I want to get all 3 OPAs or how I go about ordering the extra 2 with my order._

 

You should do this anyway to be safe and get an official final quote. But yes, tell him you want to buy the compass, plus the Sun and Moon OPAs. They will send you back a final quote.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK so I got everything in order and am ready to buy I just want to know if I should send an e-mail before the buy because I want to get all 3 OPAs or how I go about ordering the extra 2 with my order._

 

Yes by all means, lay out exactly what you would like in the order and then wait for the reply.

 Peete.

 EDIT : Either email address is fine zeroibis. ScottieB beat us both Zhirc


----------



## zeroibis

Sweet, but should I e-mail audio-gd@126.com or audio-gd@vip.163.com or what?


----------



## Zhirc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sweet, but should I e-mail audio-gd@126.com or audio-gd@vip.163.com or what?_

 

Both should be fine (I got e-mails sometimes from both address' when communicating with them), but because their PayPal-account is also the latter one, I would recommend to send it over there....argh, Peete was faster.

 Hmm, it sounds like I've finally arrived to the zone of slightly weird signatures now (at least 210 -- 240 hours of combined burn-in). Listening to something already experimental like Autechre surely sounds more weird than ever before.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *comedian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been reading this thread since Christmas and I've managed to resist placing an order.

 Until now.

 There goes remains of my willpower and I can't wait, I just need to decide whether it's worth updating my headphones.




_

 

You're a Good man Charlie Brown!

 No go get that Bad Azz Gear!

 .


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have had to report you to the forum admin pete because you continually failed to believe me that I was not andrea and you continue to accuse me.

 Look at how others have 'joined in now'. You are tarnishing my reputation for something I havent done._

 

Dude:

 He, accurately, calls himself a prick. Did you miss the jollies the pricks got out of ruining other peoples computers with ASIO.


----------



## XXII

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried ATH-A2000X briefly with Compass and it wasn't bad. Didn't do proper listening, because my (first) Compass was the original higher gain version and the gain is a bit too high for ATs. For Ultrasones it's been good though.

 I did get my second Compass with lower gain today though. Starting burn in any minute 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But for me it was so good that I ordered a second one, so I guess that tells something._

 

Great! I look forward to your impressions. What were you using with the A2000 previously?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude:

 He, accurately, calls himself a prick. Did you miss the jollies the pricks got out of ruining other peoples computers with ASIO._

 


 So let me get this straight,...pete~ reported pete.....and not Peete, ASIO is a conspiracy perpetrated by the greater membership at large and *I'm* the idiot ? 


 Peete.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude:

 He, accurately, calls himself a prick. Did you miss the jollies the pricks got out of ruining other peoples computers with ASIO._

 

So, can you please "RE-pete" and clarify which "pete" you are dissing? I prefer to think your are referring to "pete~" and not "Peete".

 As Peete has always been an enormous help and asset to everyone on this site!

 Pete~ (andrea?) has yet to prove himself worthy and useful.


----------



## ScottieB

Haha just because YOU can't figure out how to properly use ASIO doesn't mean anyone is trying to ruin your computer. This thread gets more ridiculous every day.


----------



## hertz

Can anyone tell me how good is the amp part of the Compass, especially compare to those standalone amps in the $200-$400 range, e.g Darkvoice 332se or Head-direct EF1?

 I'm currently build a entry pc-fi system. There are so many choices: sound card digital output-->standalone dac-->standalone amp; a good usb sound card such as EMU 0404 USB-->standalone amp; a one for all solution such as the Compass. 

 If the amp part of the Compass is comparable to those in the $200-$400 range, I'd prefer the Compass.

 Part II:
 I guess I can ask my question in a different way. Suppose I have the Compass, will a standalone amp below $400 make it even better? What kind of improvements will I see?

 Does anyone has an idea? Thank you in advance.


----------



## Dat_Dude

I just swapped out HDAMs and went with the Moon+Bright Setting. I must say I like Earth+Neutral better, but this definitely provides a much more relaxing sound. My main musical taste is Metal so I don't feel this setting matches up well, but I also dig Jazz and some Vocal music which I think the Moon is perfect for.


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha just because YOU can't figure out how to properly use ASIO doesn't mean anyone is trying to ruin your computer. This thread gets more ridiculous every day._

 

I agree. Zeig Heil!


----------



## druelle

I'm considering purchasing a Compass solely for the DAC (receiving from an optical or USB source) and connecting it to a Darkvoice 336i amp via RCAs. Since I won't be using the amplifier portion of the Compass at all, do you all think it's still worth it for the DAC portion or are there better options available for a pass-thru DAC with optical and USB inputs and RCA outputs?

 Thanks for the help and lets not let this thread turn into a circus.


----------



## joewatch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just swapped out HDAMs and went with the Moon+Bright Setting. I must say I like Earth+Neutral better, but this definitely provides a much more relaxing sound. My main musical taste is Metal so I don't feel this setting matches up well, but I also dig Jazz and some Vocal music which I think the Moon is perfect for._

 

Dude, for Metal, you have to try Sun + neutral. With Senn 650, Sun + bright might even sound better!


----------



## Crikey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *druelle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm considering purchasing a Compass solely for the DAC (receiving from an optical or USB source) and connecting it to a Darkvoice 336i amp via RCAs. Since I won't be using the amplifier portion of the Compass at all, do you all think it's still worth it for the DAC portion or are there better options available for a pass-thru DAC with optical and USB inputs and RCA outputs?

 Thanks for the help and lets not let this thread turn into a circus._

 

If your not going to be using the amp at all, it'd be better just buying a standalone DAC. If your interested in the Compass, then the next step up would be the DAC-200, which costs just a bit more than the compass but other's report that it should sound better. The website info page is here: ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## zeroibis

Payment sent and now I just got to wait! I ordered it with the Earth, Moon, and Sun. I am looking forward to a major setup in my sound system and a wide range of sound options to go between! Now I got to go to the mall this weekend to buy some new albums so I will have plenty of new music to burn it in with!!!!!!!1111


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joewatch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude, for Metal, you have to try Sun + neutral. With Senn 650, Sun + bright might even sound better!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was too cheap to order the Sun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Once I have some more hours on the Moon (at about 150 or so) I will likely switch back to Earth+Neutral. That seemed to be a great match for the 650s, no matter what style of music I was listening to. The Compass has such great value just based on the fact that you can get so many different kinds of sounds out of this one unit, you can fine tune it to your taste.


----------



## pete~

does anybody else find the smell from the compass overpowering? 

 Its especially noticeable when you take the lid off but even when its on, it fills my room.


----------



## Zanth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does anybody else find the smell from the compass overpowering? 

 Its especially noticeable when you take the lid off but even when its on, it fills my room._

 

I noticed a smell only when I changed the opamp. When closed I have no smell, I will admit that I had it running 24/7 for 5 days straight at my office before I got to it again after that so perhaps it burnt off the smell. Regardless, there is absolutely no smell coming from my amp now, even when I open it.


----------



## pete~

ok now can somebody help me with my humming issues please? 

 I have the compass connected to my power amp and its humming. It sounds like a ground loop hum. I have tried allsorts but cant fix it. 

 Kingwa has suggested that its the cables but that hasnt solved it either. My amp does not hum with another cd player connected to it.

 thanks.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok now can somebody help me with my humming issues please? 

 I have the compass connected to my power amp and its humming. It sounds like a ground loop hum. I have tried allsorts but cant fix it. 

 Kingwa has suggested that its the cables but that hasnt solved it either. My amp does not hum with another cd player connected to it.

 thanks._

 

Why don't you do what arcer63 suggested: take a photograph of your setup with all the connections so people here can determine where the problem might lie?


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I can't answer you fully, because for that I would have to take it apart (again). I did have to put a Schuko plug on it myself (I ordered them without plugs) and that was quite challenge because the wires used are really very rigid and thick. It consists of 1 ground wire (simple speaker cable) and two wires for both 'poles' (so that's 5 wires in total). Of those last 4 wires, two are twisted and two aren't (I believe, can't tell you which ones though). They're stranded and quite a large gauge (maybe someone else has actually measured it and can chime in). The whole comes in a techflex sleeve with connectors that look the spitting image of Oyaide connectors (Chinese copy?). That's about all._

 

Thanks Dro! I'm guessing the hot is twisted and the neutrals are not. 1 pair each for hot and neutral. 6 gauge perhaps for a total of 12 each (unless it is garden hose size). Seems like a very good value at that price.


----------



## cyberidd

Ok, so I have been enjoying my Compass for a while now, but have only had it hooked up via USB so far because my computer doesn't have a coax or optical option for me to use. So what do I need to buy to make this happen (I really don't know anything about computers so I don't even know what I'm looking for, let alone quality of this over that). 

 Also, if there happens to be someone who knows what is the best place to get it from, that would be a great bonus.

 Thanks, 
 Andrew


----------



## MysteryMachine

Should I be worried... my tracking on DHL says "1.1lb GENERAL COMMODITY WPXPOWER CABLE". I ordered a compass with moon and did not buy the upgraded power cable. 1.1lb seems a little light. Also I don't see my name on the consignment page.


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok now can somebody help me with my humming issues please? 

 I have the compass connected to my power amp and its humming. It sounds like a ground loop hum. I have tried allsorts but cant fix it. 

 Kingwa has suggested that its the cables but that hasnt solved it either. My amp does not hum with another cd player connected to it.

 thanks._

 

What make/model receiver are you using? I had horrible ground loop issues with my ps3 and the home theater receiver that we used to have. But now we have no issues. Also, are the two devices plugged into a shared power strip? You should try connecting them together using two different power outlets, maybe from different rooms. Then move it closer and closer and find out at what stage the hum returns.


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MysteryMachine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Should I be worried... my tracking on DHL says "1.1lb GENERAL COMMODITY WPXPOWER CABLE". I ordered a compass with moon and did not buy the upgraded power cable. 1.1lb seems a little light. Also I don't see my name on the consignment page._

 

No you don't have to worry, mine weighed "1.1" lbs too. And so has everyone else's. And it doesn't weigh 1.1 lbs if that was another issue.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok now can somebody help me with my humming issues please? 

 I have the compass connected to my power amp and its humming. It sounds like a ground loop hum. I have tried allsorts but cant fix it. 

 Kingwa has suggested that its the cables but that hasnt solved it either. My amp does not hum with another cd player connected to it.

 thanks._

 

Since you don't get the hum noise through headphones (as you reported to Kingwa), it means the problem is not with the Compass Preamp as it shares the same board, where a relay changes the output.

 Have you tried disconnecting all inputs to Compass and just connecting the Compass to the amp? do you still have the hum noise?..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hertz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone tell me how good is the amp part of the Compass, especially compare to those standalone amps in the $200-$400 range, e.g Darkvoice 332se or Head-direct EF1?_

 

Going by Skylab's and other reviews: The C2C, KICAS and EF1 are all on about the same level, but different-sounding. IIRC Skylab mentioned that the C2C is better than the DV 3322. I do know that the C2C is better than the headamp in the Compass from my own experience. So, that lays it out for you, roughly.


----------



## Ganderson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hertz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone tell me how good is the amp part of the Compass, especially compare to those standalone amps in the $200-$400 range, e.g Darkvoice 332se or Head-direct EF1?

 I'm currently build a entry pc-fi system. There are so many choices: sound card digital output-->standalone dac-->standalone amp; a good usb sound card such as EMU 0404 USB-->standalone amp; a one for all solution such as the Compass. 

 If the amp part of the Compass is comparable to those in the $200-$400 range, I'd prefer the Compass.

 Part II:
 I guess I can ask my question in a different way. Suppose I have the Compass, will a standalone amp below $400 make it even better? What kind of improvements will I see?

 Does anyone has an idea? Thank you in advance._

 


 Did you read this direct comparison to the EF-1?

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5564630-post4782.html


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arcer63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should try connecting them together using two different power outlets, maybe from different rooms. Then move it closer and closer and find out at what stage the hum returns._

 


 But I have tried disconnecting the earth to the dac at the mains and this didnt work? so how would that help?


 what about if i connect the dac chassis and amp together? can this cause harm?


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since you don't get the hum noise through headphones (as you reported to Kingwa), it means the problem is not with the Compass Preamp as it shares the same board, where a relay changes the output.

 Have you tried disconnecting all inputs to Compass and just connecting the Compass to the amp? do you still have the hum noise?.._

 

i dont get noise with headphones but thats not surprising because the only thing connected to mains is the dac and the input to it is optical so ground loops cant happen. 

 Its when I connect the amp that i get noise.

 I have disconnected all inputs but this doesnt change anything.


----------



## samspotting

I bought the compass yesterday, they said they would ship it to me in 2 weeks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am just curious, for now I am using the compass with my active speakers (a2 soon to be a5). I will buy a hd 650 later. What does preamp do?


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *samspotting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought the compass yesterday, they said they would ship it to me in 2 weeks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am just curious, for now I am using the compass with my active speakers (a2 soon to be a5). I will buy a hd 650 later. What does preamp do?_

 

it just lets you control the volume of the rca output so you can connect it to a power amp.


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But I have tried disconnecting the earth to the dac at the mains and this didnt work? so how would that help?


 what about if i connect the dac chassis and amp together? can this cause harm?_

 

Well, I would imagine that the power outlet thing would help, because with more wire between them, there would be less interference (more stabilizing mass) caused by one another. That was just an idea.

 Connecting the two chassis together might work, I'd wait for a response from a more knowledgeable (electricity-wise) person.


----------



## Bostonears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *druelle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm considering purchasing a Compass solely for the DAC (receiving from an optical or USB source) and connecting it to a Darkvoice 336i amp via RCAs. Since I won't be using the amplifier portion of the Compass at all, do you all think it's still worth it for the DAC portion or are there better options available for a pass-thru DAC with optical and USB inputs and RCA outputs?_

 

How about the Audio GD DAC19-MK3? That should be a big step up from the DAC section of the Compass.


----------



## samspotting

controlling my a2 from the compass would be nifty, but the a2 has its own volume controls. What should I do, set a2 vol to mid or max and then control solely using compass?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bostonears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about the Audio GD DAC19-MK3? That should be a big step up from the DAC section of the Compass._

 

I have the DAC19SE and not the 19MK3, I can assure you its quite a big step up from Compass DAC. DAC19MK3 is supposed to be an upgraded DAC19SE, so I am sure it should be even better..


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *samspotting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_controlling my a2 from the compass would be nifty, but the a2 has its own volume controls. What should I do, set a2 vol to mid or max and then control solely using compass?_

 

I'm not using my Compass Preamp for my A2s. I found using the DAC OUT of the Compass sounds better. Of course, this meant I had to use the volume knob on the back of the A2s which is a PITA. So, after much research, I found an NHT Passive Volume Controller that works perfectly and was priced well. I have the volume on the A2s almost maxed out. The A2s sound better when their own volume control is almost maxed out.

 Linky for the NHT PVC...
NHT PVC PC


----------



## doping panda

I have eighty hours on my Compass with the Earth on Soft-2 in addition to the 100 hours of burn-in by Kingwa and Co. While I was listening on Wednesday afternoon, at some point the bass seemed to tighten up and become incredibly punchy. On my Sextetts, the opening drumline of "Mistaken for Strangers" by The National is now absolutely thunderous. Out of all my headphones, I think the Sextetts were the ones that improved the most from the inclusion Compass. I don't feel that they're better than my K500, but they've improved to the point at which I don't feel that the K500 is in a completely different class. As mentioned earlier, the bass became tighter and incredibly punchy. The imaging and soundstage also improved, becoming more 3D. They're still not as detailed and not nearly as clear, but they're not a headphone I can really live with now.


----------



## Nidhogg22

Could someone tell me how to use Foobar and ASIO4all with the Compass or link me to a guide please?

 EDIT: No matter, I figured it out.


----------



## zeroibis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nidhogg22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could someone tell me how to use Foobar and ASIO4all with the Compass or link me to a guide please?

 EDIT: No matter, I figured it out._

 

Would you mind posting a quick step guide so others can be directed to that to avoid others such as yourself having problems?


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rx7mark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree 100% with this sentiment. I left my D2000's alone until they had over 600hrs, and really liked them as is. But the MarkL mods are cheap if you DIY and completely reversible, so I decided to try them. I did the partial mods and I really liked the change in bass, a noticable tightning. Its still there but its more under control now. This gives the cans a better balance overall and improves the imaging.

 I also just recently made a cheap replacement cable from Mogami mini star quad, due mostly to needing a slightly longer cable than stock. I was quite surprised that I could clearly hear an improvement in the high frequencies, a little smoother and more detailed. My wife even noticed the change. I was so excited by this I might try making another style cable just to compare the results.

 My point is to not be afraid to experiment with mods, let your ears be your guide, just make sure you can undo the mod if you don't like it.

 Mark_

 

Thanks for the 600+ hour feedback on the Denon's. I was hoping the bass issues would settle/tighten naturally. I plan on DIY recabling my cans as well. While I have the Denon's open for that surgery, I'll go ahead and try the partial Markl mods too, thanks!


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it looks like my "final" Compass should be shipping today based on the email I just received confirming my address & phone #. Will be nice to finally see what the design looks like!_

 

Congrats! I hope you enjoy it. I appreciate all of the great work you did!


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the 600+ hour feedback on the Denon's. I was hoping the bass issues would settle/tighten naturally. I plan on DIY recabling my cans as well. While I have the Denon's open for that surgery, I'll go ahead and try the partial Markl mods too, thanks!_

 

Everything does get better on the D2000's with burn in, but the bass issue never really goes away. Mind you its not bad and I could have lived with it and been quite happy. But after reading the MarkL threads, I just had to try it, and I was happy I did.

 Good luck

 Mark

 Edit: Laidback, I just scanned the gear listed in your profile and I am seriously jealous
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 What combo do you like best with you C-2C?


----------



## Nidhogg22

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you mind posting a quick step guide so others can be directed to that to avoid others such as yourself having problems?_

 

Sure. I installed the foobar ASIO component and ASIO4All, then in Foobars Preferences option went to Output - ASIO Virtual Devices and added a new device, this being ASIO4All (this was what I didn't work out). Then in Output select ASIO:ASIO4All as the Output device and you're ready to go.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rx7mark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Everything does get better on the D2000's with burn in, but the bass issue never really goes away. Mind you its not bad and I could have lived with it and been quite happy. But after reading the MarkL threads, I just had to try it, and I was happy I did.

 Good luck

 Mark

 Edit: Laidback, I just scanned the gear listed in your profile and I am seriously jealous
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What combo do you like best with you C-2C?_

 

Yeah, my Denon's have a decent amount of time on them, but probably not 600+ hours yet. My guesstimate would be 400-500 hours. I've been rotating cans and genres a lot. I'm glad you confirmed that the last piece of the puzzle(the bass) will probably not automagically fall into place. I've been patiently waiting and I really like these cans, but at times it's obvious the bass could/should be tighter...

 LOL, don't be jealous at all, my wallet has been begging God to live, and I haven't had the heart to tell it there's a lot left to go in my upgrade path. I will be splitting my gear between home and office. Plus, the amount of gear listed in my profile is literally nothing compared to many, many, many members on head-fi...the gear I see listed in signatures/profiles is simply jaw-dropping. Anyway, one thing out of many that amazes me about the A-GD gear is the strong synergy it has with everything I've plugged into it. Seriously, it all sounds really, really good. I think that alone is a serious quality and compliment to this gear. I basically just select cans and genres based on my mood, not concerned about gear synergy at all, because it has been proven to be there. To me, that's the ultimate point of this hobby, to just get lost in the incredible quality sound/music. I've lost count of how many times I've had those "cans disappearing from my head" moments that you hear guys talk about. I spend the least amount of time with my Senns, but that was happening before I got the A-GD gear, that's just a personal "flavor" preference at this point in time...


----------



## driftingbunnies

side note to Laidback: there's talk about a meet in Austin soon hopefully. Hopefully you can bring some of your gear down


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_side note to Laidback: there's talk about a meet in Austin soon hopefully. Hopefully you can bring some of your gear down_

 

Thanks for the heads-up, Austin's a great/fun city. I last visited in the fall for ACL. Any idea on timeframe? Has a thread been started yet?

 Have you seen the lineup for the 09' ACL, it's already looking good:
Austin City Limits Music Festival : October 2-4, 2009 : Austin, TX : Zilker Park


----------



## driftingbunnies

Yeah there's a thread in the meets forum. no idea when it's gonna be. I'll be gone for a good month and a half starting in june so hopefully it'll be soon but you know how long it takes to coordinate a meet.


----------



## Mingo

Could somebody compare the sound quality of
 1. Compass
 2. C2C
 3. Heed CanAmp
 I am at a loss what to buy. I am only interested in the headphone amplifier part of the Compass. My cans are AKG K701.
 TIA


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could somebody compare the sound quality of
 1. Compass
 2. C2C
 3. Heed CanAmp
 I am at a loss what to buy. I am only interested in the headphone amplifier part of the Compass. My cans are AKG K701.
 TIA_

 

I have never auditioned the Heed CanAmp, so I can't help you there. I own both the Compass and C-2C. If you have no need for devoting a portion of your investment toward a DAC, then I would strongly suggest maximizing your amp investment with the C-2C, it's a very strong performer. I have no idea how much longer it will be available for $335 + ~$50 shipping, but IMO that's an amazing value. There has been a lot of C-2C feedback surfacing on head-fi, check it out and compare it to the CanAmp feedback and comparisons. I too get frustrated at times with not being able to audition the gear that I'm interested in. I don't own AKG K70X, but it seems like the members with the C-2C and K70X are very pleased with the synergy....


----------



## cyberidd

So I've been wondering, why is it that there seems to be so little love for the Sun HDAM? It seems that all the people purchasing new Compasses are getting only the Moon and Earth, not the Sun, I am quite enjoying the Sun right now, although I haven't yet popped in the Moon. I plan on making a more full review later, but for now I'll just say that the Beyerdynamic DT990 whose biggest fault is usually believed to be it's problems with sibilance is having no such issues with the Sun on bright, although there is a bit of harshness, but that goes away with some jumpers. From my time with the Sun so far I have found it to be a great sounding HDAM, so I'm just not sure why people seem to be avoiding purchasing it!


----------



## afrsafrs

as of this morning mine's reached Heathrow....

 but on a point of actual information, dont think anyone's posted this yet, the final non-promo price has been released on the GD site...

 $330 from 11th June

 get them while there hot.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *afrsafrs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$330 from 11th June_

 

1th of June, not the 11th.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could somebody compare the sound quality of
 1. Compass
 2. C2C
 3. Heed CanAmp
 I am at a loss what to buy. I am only interested in the headphone amplifier part of the Compass. My cans are AKG K701.
 TIA_

 

If you're only interested in an amp, get the C2C. I hope you have a very good source (DAC, CD player or whatever) however.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've been wondering, why is it that there seems to be so little love for the Sun HDAM?_

 

I like the Sun. I can't quite explain why. Sometimes the Earth seems too in-your-face and the Moon too mids-recessed.


----------



## pete~

i have a question though. Aside from the hum problems, I have been listening to the compass for a couple of days now and I am not satisifed with the sound. It has a narrow, shallow soundstage and te bass is not extended or weighty and the top end is abut harsh. Thats just my honest impression 'in my setup.'

 I am not sure if there are compatibility issues with my amp, but I dont know what to do.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have a question though. Aside from the hum problems, I have been listening to the compass for a couple of days now and I am not satisifed with the sound. It has a narrow, shallow soundstage and te bass is not extended or weighty and the top end is abut harsh. Thats just my honest impression 'in my setup.'

 I am not sure if there are compatibility issues with my amp, but I dont know what to do._

 

Give it 350 hours of use or burn-in and then decide. It has 100 hours from the factory, so you've only got 250 hours to go. If you're still not satisfied, sell it. However, you wont get the huge soundstage of speakers with headphones, for the most part.


----------



## pete~

Also how does the line in work?

 I plugged in a cd player into line in but i cannot hear any sound despite turning the knob on all settings. 'Line in' is the setting which is rotated all the way counterclockwise right?


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Give it 350 hours of use or burn-in and then decide. It has 100 hours from the factory, so you've only got 250 hours to go. If you're still not satisfied, sell it. However, you wont get the huge soundstage of speakers with headphones, for the most part._

 

But I AM using it with speakers and a power amp, thats the thing.

 Woud the bass weight increase with burn in though? 

 do you think its better to return it or sell it?


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've been wondering, why is it that there seems to be so little love for the Sun HDAM? It seems that all the people purchasing new Compasses are getting only the Moon and Earth, not the Sun, I am quite enjoying the Sun right now, although I haven't yet popped in the Moon. I plan on making a more full review later, but for now I'll just say that the Beyerdynamic DT990 whose biggest fault is usually believed to be it's problems with sibilance is having no such issues with the Sun on bright, although there is a bit of harshness, but that goes away with some jumpers. From my time with the Sun so far I have found it to be a great sounding HDAM, so I'm just not sure why people seem to be avoiding purchasing it!_

 

My sun opamp has much less hours than my other opamps, but I do slightly prefer it to the earth/moon when I take out my power conditioner and audio-gd power cable because it makes mids present, but with sun+conditioner+cable, things go so bright and bouncy I think I'm going ADHD. Sun would be great if you were a DJ at a party or something lol.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've been wondering, why is it that there seems to be so little love for the Sun HDAM? It seems that all the people purchasing new Compasses are getting only the Moon and Earth, not the Sun, I am quite enjoying the Sun right now, although I haven't yet popped in the Moon. I plan on making a more full review later, but for now I'll just say that the Beyerdynamic DT990 whose biggest fault is usually believed to be it's problems with sibilance is having no such issues with the Sun on bright, although there is a bit of harshness, but that goes away with some jumpers. From my time with the Sun so far I have found it to be a great sounding HDAM, so I'm just not sure why people seem to be avoiding purchasing it!_

 

You must have missed my numerous posts on this - and my sig on all of my posts. I use it with bright, too -even with grados - so I guess I like a forward and bright sound. But I also like variety and do switch it up sometimes, and often 'tame' it with a tube amp.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also how does the line in work?

 I plugged in a cd player into line in but i cannot hear any sound despite turning the knob on all settings. 'Line in' is the setting which is rotated all the way counterclockwise right?_

 

No - line in works in super mode. That 'fourth' setting on the selector does nothing actually.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But I AM using it with speakers and a power amp, thats the thing.

 Woud the bass weight increase with burn in though? 

 do you think its better to return it or sell it?_

 

Can you tell me your setup? what is the power amp you are using and what speakers, before the Compass came, were you using different Preamp?.. your assumption to Bass and sound stage not being up to your satisfaction, is it based on the previous setup you had before Compass? and does it suffer the same results when you are using headphones while using Compass??..

 Finally if you feel Compass isn't suiting you, selling it would be a better option as you would get money upfront.


----------



## Nidhogg22

If anyone in the UK wishes to sell a Moon HDAM or trade for an Earth, give me a PM please.


----------



## fiddle

Just received my compass. It came extremely well packed. In fact I had a hard time getting the wrap off some of the wires. The only gripe I had was with the adhesive they used to secure the OPA during shipping. Left a real messy gunk on the panel that took a couple of minutes to get rid off. It certainly added more fuel to the anxiety and excitement of getting it up and running as fast as I could.

 My initial reaction was sheer disappointment. Soundstage was extremely narrow, volume was tiny although I had it turned all the way past 12 o'clock.I thought I had received a defective unit. However, upon closer inspection, I realized my 1/4 to 1/8 adaptor wasn't fully secured! While fiddling with the Neutrik socket and ensuring that my phones went in correctly, the adaptor had inadvertently came loose. Silly me...I guess I was just too anxious.

 Problem solved! Pure audio bliss. It sounds fantastic right out of the box. Definitely a leap from my portable DAC/Amp. Tried with my HD-600 and this drives them like a beast. Best thing I bought this year...certainly in terms of best bang for the buck!

 Really anxious to hear how it sounds after sufficient burn-in...


----------



## fiddle

-deleted- double post


----------



## Denaturat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fiddle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My initial reaction was sheer disappointment. Soundstage was extremely narrow, volume was tiny although I had it turned all the way past 12 o'clock._

 

Haha, I can imagine the dissapointment when you heard it mono


----------



## thingfisher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nidhogg22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure. I installed the foobar ASIO component and ASIO4All, then in Foobars Preferences option went to Output - ASIO Virtual Devices and added a new device, this being ASIO4All (this was what I didn't work out). Then in Output select ASIO:ASIO4All as the Output device and you're ready to go._

 

So simple, yet so complete. Thanks. I ordered a Compass on 5/5, and figure I'll get everything set up in the meantime.


----------



## fiddle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denaturat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha, I can imagine the dissapointment when you heard it mono 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah...initially I was glad I still have my icon mobile. It was hilarious.


----------



## Mingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could somebody compare the sound quality of
 1. Compass
 2. C2C
 3. Heed CanAmp
 I am at a loss what to buy. I am only interested in the headphone amplifier part of the Compass. My cans are AKG K701.
 TIA_

 

There was response to the above questions. Thanks for that.
 How much difference will there be between the Compass with the extra good quality power cable (USD75) and the ordinary C2C.
 If the difference in sound quality will be neglible I could buy the Compass and thus have the possibility of using the DAC sometime in the future.
 At the moment I am using Marantz SA7001 as sound source and not my pc.


----------



## fsrick

After reading this thread for 2 months, i finally got my compass today from my uncle. (Kingwa and I were in the same town in china, but now i am going to school in Boston. as a student, i was too cheap to pay the $50 dollars shipping. so i waited till Kingwa started selling compass in china in May. then i asked my uncle to get it and bring it to me when he comes to my cousin's commencement.). i am very happy to see a chinese product being this popular and welcomed in Head-fi (including Zero, i just cannot get it when i last got back to china, then i googled for an alternative and got into this thread). compass is kinda affordable to me and has good quality. I am a very beginner, i cannot give any valuable comments on compass. but i would like to thank all Head-fi members to come up this idea and support Kingwa. also, i want to thank kingwa to make compass into a real product. i finally have an entry level DAC&amp.

 i just have a quick question. now i have an er-4s, is a headphone upgrade necessary? just for future, maybe next yr.


----------



## pete~

Kingwa is your uncle?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa is your uncle?_

 

He said his uncle lives in the same town AS Kingwa...not that Kingwa is HIS uncle....

 Are you ever going to disclose what gear you are using or are you going to continue to evade AND ignore legitimate questions and requests ?

 Peete.


----------



## pete~

Well regarding the photos, it is too much effort and I think its better if I explain how everything is connected. All the pictures will show is the compass connected by optical cable to the cd player and dac to the amp. 

 But the problem is not only the hum anymore. Its the fact that I am not satisfied with the sound I'm getting. I have connected the previous cd player via the compass and that brings back the sound I enjoyed before the compass, however the compass is much more accurate even though the soundstage isnt very wide or deep and the bass isnt as extended.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Is it too much effort to read the page 1 FAQ ? 

 Something to which would have answered what you are complaining about now ? What might that be pete~ ? 

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you mind posting a quick step guide so others can be directed to that to avoid others such as yourself having problems?_

 

There's a link in the FAQ to one.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also how does the line in work?

 I plugged in a cd player into line in but i cannot hear any sound despite turning the knob on all settings. 'Line in' is the setting which is rotated all the way counterclockwise right?_

 

pete~: You are the most unbelievably frustrating person I've ever come across on a forum. Despite your numerous PMs to numerous people, all of whom have pointed you to the FAQ I laboriously wrote to answer the most common questions, you seem to have neither not read it, or not READ it. Not only that, you don't read what people write IN this thread, and, to top it off, you don't provide the information we need to help you.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But I AM using it with speakers and a power amp, thats the thing.

 Woud the bass weight increase with burn in though? 

 do you think its better to return it or sell it?_

 

How are you using it? Are you using it as a pre-amp? Are you using it as a headphone amp? WHAT ACTUAL GEAR ARE YOU USING IT WITH? WHAT AMP? WHAT HEADPHONES? WHAT CD PLAYER? Until you tell us something useful, we can't answer your questions.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa is your uncle?_

 

This question just goes to show that YOU DON'T READ. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it is too much effort_

 

It is too much effort helping someone who wont help themselves.

 Until you provide enough information on your system, and as well show that you've read and absorbed the information in the FAQ I wrote, I don't think anyone should respond to any of your posts or PMs.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've been wondering, why is it that there seems to be so little love for the Sun HDAM? It seems that all the people purchasing new Compasses are getting only the Moon and Earth, not the Sun, I am quite enjoying the Sun right now, although I haven't yet popped in the Moon. I plan on making a more full review later, but for now I'll just say that the Beyerdynamic DT990 whose biggest fault is usually believed to be it's problems with sibilance is having no such issues with the Sun on bright, although there is a bit of harshness, but that goes away with some jumpers. From my time with the Sun so far I have found it to be a great sounding HDAM, so I'm just not sure why people seem to be avoiding purchasing it!_

 

I have love for all the modules, they are all good in their own way. I guess the primary factor(s) in the popularity of each one are the listeners tastes and ears, and characteristics of their headphones.

 I used the Sun for ages, but when I moved over to my electrostatics, the top-end was somewhat overwhelming.

 Horses for courses. It doesn't really get a fair hearing on here, because so many people rate the Moon and Earth more highly. But that doesn't mean it can't be the best solution for you and your gear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## doping panda

I've been listening to my newly arrived Lambdas on my Compass for today and yesterday. I don't want to make any judgments due to New Toy Syndrome, but right now I'm really liking their sound: highly detailed yet musical with excellent tonal balance and good high and low extension. If it's just detail, the Stax put every other headphone I've hear to shame.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But the problem is not only the hum anymore. Its the fact that I am not satisfied with the sound I'm getting. I have connected the previous cd player via the compass and that brings back the sound I enjoyed before the compass, however the compass is much more accurate even though the soundstage isnt very wide or deep and the bass isnt as extended._

 

It sounds like the Compass is not your "cup o tea". I suggest you simply sell it and move on.


----------



## moodyrn

x2.


----------



## gilency

The DAC portion is doing a great job connected to my B&W speakers. This weekend finished loading about 700 CD's (so far) into my 1 terabyte hard drive connected to my music server (old iBook G4). I have to use the USB drive because the old iBooks did not have optical output but I have to say I don't hear any extraneous sounds and the music coming out of the speakers is pure and clear. My wife and kids are gone for a couple of hours right now, and that means I can crank up the volume all the way up. Mozart has never sounded better!


----------



## zeroibis

Because I got all 3 I hope to do a nice shoot out between them all on every jumper setting with my DT-990 after burn in. I hope that my results will aid fellow DT-990 owners and others who wish for more comments on the differences. Also I am going to need to brush up on my vocabulary so that I can explain everything in the words you all use as I am not accustom to writing audio reviews. Therefore, anything I have to say should be cum grano salis, however; I am still going to do the shootout for those that want the into. Also, you got to start somewhere!


----------



## obentou

Hmm, seems Audio-gd is not on schedule... 

 The CxS Cherry said my Compass would ship this weekend but no notice of anything yet. Damn.


----------



## DoYouRight

OMG FINALLY. I just finished reading the whole thread. Took me a week!

 Havent rebooted or anything because of leaving firefox open. Anyway, I was on the button to order the Compass and the HF-2 was discovered. *******IT! Anyway, I ordered those and will order my compass in about a week. I just have to find the $$$. I have about $100 to my name and a cable bill due but it's not cut off yet so I'll let it ride. Regardless, I am going to sell some textbooks and hit up the Bank of Mom. 

 So, I will be using the Sennheiser HD595, Grado HF-1 & HF-2, Audio Technica ESW10Jpn and some 1/8 to 1/4 adapter (would love a recommendation) with this Compass. Soon I will order some Ultrasones and maybe HD650 or more likely Beyer DT880 or DT990 need to read reviews and visit Moon Audio after I get my birthday $$$.

 So I was thinking to just get the Compass with Earth for $320. As it seems those with all 3 HDAM's end up using the Earth. I would love all 3 and the upgraded power cable. But that jumps the price to almost $500 before the end of month markup.

 I have no DAC/AMP to compare just my computer soundcard and my reciever. So how much will this blow me away if nothing else has been heard and I really want the Power Cable but just can't afford it unless I beg and lapse on bills since I have been laidoff.

 Gosh, just a month ago I had $3k but didn't think about the Compass didn't even know of it and thought buying puppy stuff and video games was the way to go for now. Kicking myself so hard!

 Any help on giving me motivation for the power cable and all HDAMs will really help, thanks! Plus, I know I would get the power cord and HDAM's eventually just wanted to get the unit ASAP but the shipping for those later would be another $60 so WOWZAH!

 PS: This thread lead me to a few new cd's and I truly am thankful for that! 
 Would love some Progressive Rock like you guys mentioned but without alot of singing. Or someone with a truly amazing voice? Any ideas?


----------



## yepyep_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As it seems those with all 3 HDAM's end up using the Earth._

 

I prefer the Moon.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how much will this blow me away if nothing else has been heard_

 

No one knows until you listen to the Compass with your setup.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any help on giving me motivation for *snip* all HDAMs will really help, thanks!_

 

Well, if there is something you'd like to change in the Compass' soundsignature after you get it (more than just the jumper-settings), you could be kicking yourself a few more times for not spending the extra for the HDAM's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Obviously you don't necessarily get an improvement in sound, for your ears, with your setup, but you do get 3 soundsignatures + the jumpers to choose from. If you don't get the HDAM's, then there's the *what if*. That's the reason why I thought it was worth it to get all three. I'm glad I did.

 Anyway, I hope you'll enjoy your Compass.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yepyep_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I prefer the Moon.



 No one knows until you listen to the Compass with your setup.



 Well, if there is something you'd like to change in the Compass' soundsignature after you get it (more than just the jumper-settings), you could be kicking yourself a few more times for not spending the extra for the HDAM's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Obviously you don't necessarily get an improvement in sound, for your ears, with your setup, but you do get 3 soundsignatures + the jumpers to choose from. If you don't get the HDAM's, then there's the *what if*. That's the reason why I thought it was worth it to get all three. I'm glad I did.

 Anyway, I hope you'll enjoy your Compass._

 

Agreed...I'm kicking myself because I didn't order the Sun with my Compass. Now, instead of paying an extra $20 (the deal at the time), I'm looking at close to $50.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed...I'm kicking myself because I didn't order the Sun with my Compass. Now, instead of paying an extra $20 (the deal at the time), I'm looking at close to $50._

 

And will the HDAMs go up in price with the Compass, or has that already happened? Anyway, I'm really happy I picked up all three, it means I get to have the sound that works best with my setup no matter what headphones I have on.


----------



## driftingbunnies

That is what drives the audiophile world. What if....


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And will the HDAMs go up in price with the Compass, or has that already happened? Anyway, I'm really happy I picked up all three, it means I get to have the sound that works best with my setup no matter what headphones I have on._

 

Good point. I need to get that ordered. Just need to come up with an excuse for the wife.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And will the HDAMs go up in price with the Compass, or has that already happened? Anyway, I'm really happy I picked up all three, it means I get to have the sound that works best with my setup no matter what headphones I have on._

 

Yeah, I"m starting to regret not getting the Sun and the power cable due to a lack of money at that point. However, buying it now would cost me a lot more than buying it with the Compass due to shipping.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been listening to my newly arrived Lambdas on my Compass for today and yesterday. I don't want to make any judgments due to New Toy Syndrome, but right now I'm really liking their sound: highly detailed yet musical with excellent tonal balance and good high and low extension. If it's just detail, the Stax put every other headphone I've hear to shame._

 

Bliss, isn't it? There is little finer in the world than sitting down, listening to music you've always enjoyed, but finding a whole new dimension of depth, detail, and musicality to it.

 Sadly, it'll also throw up nasty problems in some of the music you're fond of. But it's worth it, it really is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

There really is nothing like a ribbon transducer. It's the top of the mountain.

 Peete.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bliss, isn't it? There is little finer in the world than sitting down, listening to music you've always enjoyed, but finding a whole new dimension of depth, detail, and musicality to it.

 Sadly, it'll also throw up nasty problems in some of the music you're fond of. But it's worth it, it really is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

It really is bliss. The nasties aren't so problematic right now, but I haven't listened to any of my historical recordings yet which might take the biggest hit. I can't imagine them being too kind to some of those old Alfred Cortot recordings.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There really is nothing like a ribbon transducer. It's the top of the mountain.

 Peete._

 

Ribbons are really tempting had I the room for them, but alas I do not. UCLA dorm rooms=no space. I'll be moving into an apartment in about a month, but I doubt I'll have the room for spekaers there as well. I can possible fit some mini-moniters in there if I talk my roommate into arranging the room so that we'll have space for them, but even that might not be a possibility. At the very least, I can keep upgrading my electronics until the day I'll have the room for some speakers.


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On my Sextetts, the opening drumline of "Mistaken for Strangers" by The National is now absolutely thunderous._

 

Good to hear from another The National fan... is it just me, or is Boxer a tremendous album for headphones? I'm seeing them when they're in town on Saturday--can't wait!

 Sorry for going OT


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It really is bliss. The nasties aren't so problematic right now, but I haven't listened to any of my historical recordings yet which might take the biggest hit. I can't imagine them being too kind to some of those old Alfred Cortot recordings._

 

Let me know how it works with them, once you have the courage to listen to 'em. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A significant part of my collection consists of transferred 78s and I'm looking into Stax as a future investment.
 (I must say that up till now, through all the upgrades, I still haven't come across something that made historic recordings unlistenable.)


----------



## darkhalo

Anyone thinking to mod their Compass? Cap upgrades, ect to squeeze the last bit of air out of it?


----------



## DoYouRight

darkhalo that's what I'm waiting for... 
 I know the Zero was modded or "frankend" and I would truly love to see what can be done to this unit to increase or change benefit it for those who wouldn't upgrade anything else. 

 When I get mine I won't buy anything above it just maybe a decent Tube Amp. However I would like to get maybe a different DAC board in it thats upgraded. I asked Kingwa about this and his words were that it is maturate? (confusing word) and that it isn't necessary. But I truly would like to know if the highest end Wolfson would make it truly remarkable, I mean the Little Dot Dac has that chip. So we will see what happens.

 I hope this thread does not die but infact add's the tweaks and mods in here to make this thing a true beast and jack of all trades for Students and others unwilling or unfunded of going upwards of the $1000+ area for awhile.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *idunno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to hear from another The National fan... is it just me, or is Boxer a tremendous album for headphones? I'm seeing them when they're in town on Saturday--can't wait!

 Sorry for going OT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Boxer is a great amount for headphones with tight, punchy bass and well defined lower mid-range like the Sextetts. Have fun seeing them live. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me know how it works with them, once you have the courage to listen to 'em. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A significant part of my collection consists of transferred 78s and I'm looking into Stax as a future investment.
 (I must say that up till now, through all the upgrades, I still haven't come across something that made historic recordings unlistenable.)_

 

Well, historic recordings are special for their own reasons that probably no lack of sound quality can take away. So, I doubt it'll make them unlistenable, but it'll probably make me want to look more and more into modern recordings. Those Harmonia Mundi recordings are great -if only they weren't so expensive.

 I'd be interested in some Compass mods as well. I want to see how far she can go.


----------



## Currawong

Once you've gotten into Stax, there's no escape. There were vintage combos going here for auction for only $350 or so that would completely demolish a dynamic set up costing 2-3X that amount.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkhalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone thinking to mod their Compass? Cap upgrades, ect to squeeze the last bit of air out of it?_

 

I'm sure Pricklely Peete will have a go at modding his at some stage. The DAC200 is almost a franken Compass DAC.


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sure Pricklely Peete will have a go at modding his at some stage. The DAC200 is almost a franken Compass DAC._

 

Sounds great. Peete! Keeping an eye on you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (and no, I'm not Andrea)


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_darkhalo that's what I'm waiting for... 
 I know the Zero was modded or "frankend" and I would truly love to see what can be done to this unit to increase or change benefit it for those who wouldn't upgrade anything else. 

 When I get mine I won't buy anything above it just maybe a decent Tube Amp. However I would like to get maybe a different DAC board in it thats upgraded. I asked Kingwa about this and his words were that it is maturate? (confusing word) and that it isn't necessary. But I truly would like to know if the highest end Wolfson would make it truly remarkable, I mean the Little Dot Dac has that chip. So we will see what happens.

 I hope this thread does not die but infact add's the tweaks and mods in here to make this thing a true beast and jack of all trades for Students and others unwilling or unfunded of going upwards of the $1000+ area for awhile.

_

 

I'm not too interested in changing the DAC. I think it's fine enough already. Just thinking to refine/change the sound sig. I know Kingwa is using large film caps in some of his other dacs. I'm guessing those little brown polyprops in the output stage could go for some Auricaps, Teflon or something.


----------



## Mingo

Can anyonone tell me how much improvement soundwise there will be when you connect the Audio-gd power cable (USD75) to the Compass?


----------



## DoYouRight

Id love to know a TRUE answer to this. Zanth told me it's not necessary and wouldn't recommend me getting it at the price of me being broke and since I dont live in an old house. But truly will I be sad without it. I mean the difference is $380 for Compass with all 3 HDAMS or $455 and risk needing the money for the cable and losing out on the price before June 1st. Right now to get it I will have to skip some bills and be ****ed later but I want this bad! LOL


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, historic recordings are special for their own reasons that probably no lack of sound quality can take away. So, I doubt it'll make them unlistenable, but it'll probably make me want to look more and more into modern recordings. Those Harmonia Mundi recordings are great -if only they weren't so expensive._

 

No, I wouldn't want to miss Cortot for anything in the world. (Compliments on your taste. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
 Careful with Harmonia Mundi. I don't know how they are organised these days, but in the past it was mainly the French division that produced consistenly great recordings (and the USA division that was prone to major c0ck-ups).
 For another label that attaches a lot of importance to recording quality, check out MDG. Particularly their chamber music and organ recordings. (Okay, not cheap either.)
 Thankfully, Naxos is still improving the technical standards of their recordings too.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_darkhalo that's what I'm waiting for... 
 I know the Zero was modded or "frankend" and I would truly love to see what can be done to this unit to increase or change benefit it for those who wouldn't upgrade anything else. 

 When I get mine I won't buy anything above it just maybe a decent Tube Amp. However I would like to get maybe a different DAC board in it thats upgraded. I asked Kingwa about this and his words were that it is maturate? (confusing word) and that it isn't necessary. But I truly would like to know if the highest end Wolfson would make it truly remarkable, I mean the Little Dot Dac has that chip. So we will see what happens.

 I hope this thread does not die but infact add's the tweaks and mods in here to make this thing a true beast and jack of all trades for Students and others unwilling or unfunded of going upwards of the $1000+ area for awhile.

_

 

I'm thinking about some tweaks for it as we speak.......Compass MAXX if you will.....I hope Kingwa doesn't mind. I like tinkering with stuff just to see where that takes things. 
 Don't get caught up in the DAC chip chosen equaling all there is to a DAC device way of thinking. A dac chip is just one small part of a entire circuit of which the power supplies, the analog output section are more critical to the overall success of a design than just the selection of DAC chip. The AD1852 is a great dac chip, right up there with the PCM1704UK and TDA1541S1.


 Peete.


----------



## Optional

Just made my payment for a Compass 

 Hope that all goes smoothly!

 Thanks to rx7mark for inviting me to his home to audition the amp for myself! This was a great help in this purchasing decision, made it a total no brainer!


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking about some tweaks for it as we speak.......Compass MAXX if you will.....I hope Kingwa doesn't mind. I like tinkering with stuff just to see where that takes things. 
 Don't get caught up in the DAC chip chosen equaling all there is to a DAC device way of thinking. A dac chip is just one small part of a entire circuit of which the power supplies, the analog output section are more critical to the overall success of a design than just the selection of DAC chip. The AD1852 is a great dac chip, right up there with the PCM1704UK and TDA1541S1.


 Peete._

 

Excellent Peete. I'll be following your posts. I don't have a lot of experience but will try to help out where I can. 

 I don't think Kingwa would mind. I think it would only increase interest in his DAC. And I totally agree about the DAC chip.

 I'm also thinking about subbing the polyesters in the HDAM with something faster.


----------



## zupa

I'm about to order one of these, but the website is confusing.

 How do I go through the order process via paypal?
 As far as voltage, how do I know if I need 110 or 220?

 thanks


----------



## op2003

You have to decide the following things before ordering:
 * 110V or 220V version (see this list according to your country) and which power-plug
 * Which HDAM should be default
 * Which extras do you want (extra HDAMs, power cord, etc..)

 Put all your wishes into a list and send it to Kingwa/Cherry and they will give you the exact price incl. shipping to your country to pay via paypal. After you did the paypal transfer drop them a short mail and the shipping will start approx. 2 weeks later.

 P.S.: Probably Currawong could include a "How do i order"-section into the FAQ?


----------



## zupa

Thanks op20003

 So I have a choice of the default HDAM? I thought by default earth was included 

 I'll probably get all 3 along with the power cord.


----------



## Currawong

The Earth is included by default. The Sun and Moon are optional extras.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Probably Currawong could include a "How do i order"-section into the FAQ?_

 

I was thinking to suggest to Kingwa that he organise his web site a bit better actually. I think though that people aren't used to the idea of emailing an order request first.


----------



## op2003

I think this would be a good idea, as zupa is obviously not the only one confused by the process of ordering.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thinking to suggest to Kingwa that he organise his web site a bit better actually. I think though that people aren't used to the idea of emailing an order request first._

 

I was thinking on the same lines myself, but then I think the problem lies with the products and shipping rates. I mean on top of every page of Audio GD website it states :

  Quote:


 We recommend international buyers to check with us by e-mail about the latest product price and shipment charge for each or combined purchase . Please also note that buyers will have to pay additional 4% (PayPal transaction fees) of the total amount while making the payment. 
 

Lets take the case of Zupa, he wants to buy a power cord too ( I hope he is from the US, because the custom power cord comes with US plugs), so the best for him would be write directly to Audio GD as his shipping price might differ from others just buying the Compass with regular extras. 

 So, the best would be as suggested in every page of Audio GD to write to them and ask them the cost including shipping and then go ahead and make the payment.

 The rest of the confusion I believe is when people don't read the first page and the FAQ.


----------



## DoYouRight

Good golly miss molly ^_^ 

 Power Cord only being USA does that mean only americans are foolish enough to buy them? I just dont know how much I believe in cable theory. My uncle is an audiophile with about 20 sets of speakers. He uses neutrik ends but he is all about those cables for insane money being rediculous and showing all these blind studies proving it.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good golly miss molly ^_^ 

 Power Cord only being USA does that mean only americans are foolish enough to buy them? I just dont know how much I believe in cable theory. My uncle is an audiophile with about 20 sets of speakers. He uses neutrik ends but he is all about those cables for insane money being rediculous and showing all these blind studies proving it._

 

No, Audio GD just standardized the US plugs on their custom power cords, I only have one pair of speakers and ears and I can make out subtle difference using the custom power cord, as for the question if its worth 75 bucks which I don't think is insane amount of money, well thats an individual decision.


----------



## thingfisher

Ordered on 5/5, and just received an email from Cherry last night (5/17) with my DHL tracking number. 

 BTW, I kind of like the ordering process. I think it's a nice individualized touch, that allows some degree of personal interaction with the manufacturer. You tell them what you want, they send you a price. It harkens back to days of yore. The web site could use some improvement, though.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good golly miss molly ^_^ 

 Power Cord only being USA does that mean only americans are foolish enough to buy them? I just dont know how much I believe in cable theory. My uncle is an audiophile with about 20 sets of speakers. He uses neutrik ends but he is all about those cables for insane money being rediculous and showing all these blind studies proving it._

 

I suggest people try for themselves. Ultimately the enjoyment we get out of gear is subjective, and, to paraphrase the quote in a sig of one of the moderators, when we divert away from remembering that the enjoyment of music is what we're here for then we're doing this for the wrong reasons.


----------



## op2003

Here are some pictures of my Compass. I know, it looks like all the others, but it's mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I will give some impressions with the Compass (OPA-Moon) and my K701s later on... so far it's great!


----------



## DoYouRight

Will it matter if I don't use "special cords" on my other components though? My laptop has a regular power cord and it is fed into a surge protector. My Stereo is hooked up to a $200 TrippLite but its fairly far from my computer. Unless I get a very long USB cable? What do you think?


----------



## Ganderson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here are some pictures of my Compass. I know, it looks like all the others, but it's mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I will give some impressions with the Compass (OPA-Moon) and my K701s later on... so far it's great!_

 

Thanks for the pics. They may look the same but it's nice to see the build from different angles through the "eyes" of others.

 It also helps build the excitement for those of us awaiting delivery... I can't wait!

 Now.. if mine would just leave Shanghai 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## DoYouRight

Well the thing is. If I get it without the cable and I hear anything I dont like Ill say oh see I shoulda bought the cable. I just wish that people wouldn't write that it helps clear out foggyness as that is important to me. Damn the HF-2! Eating all my monies!


----------



## DoYouRight

Also according to Zero Dac 2009 Edition

 There is a new Zero Dac with a seperate DAC board I wonder if he fears that Audio GD will replace him completely, I hope so.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also according to Zero Dac 2009 Edition

 There is a new Zero Dac with a seperate DAC board I wonder if he fears that Audio GD will replace him completely, I hope so._

 

Zero always had a separate DAC board, unless it is released in the market and someone compares it with Compass, there is no way to know which one is better, although I'll put my money on Compass knowing the background of both Zero and Compass.

 The problem with Zero was not the quality of the gear, it was a great combo in its own right and costs nearly half of Compass (Stock Compass is far superior both in quality and QC than stock Zero). It was the QC that was the problem and they need to address that issue.

 PS. Thanks for the info on the Zero 2009 edition..


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the thing is. If I get it without the cable and I hear anything I dont like Ill say oh see I shoulda bought the cable. I just wish that people wouldn't write that it helps clear out foggyness as that is important to me. Damn the HF-2! Eating all my monies!_

 

The power cable isn't necessary to enjoy the compass, the compass itself sounds good. There's no problem in delaying to see if compass without power cord is satisfactory for you, just ask someone living in the USA who is ordering something from audio-gd to also get a power cord and ship it to you, then the only additional cost to you is domestic shipping cost. Others say it and I agree, cables are the final things to upgrade once you are happy with the rest of your setup.


----------



## DoYouRight

Thanks Haloxt


----------



## DisgruntledVirus

Well, wasn't that a fun read. 

 Finally made it through this thread (after 5 days or so). I want this amp so bad, but have a few questions. 

 Most importantly is how portable is this? I need an amp I can take with me to/from work, and will fit in my bookbag along with headphones (DT770's or K271's). I don't mind weigh, but if it's too large/delicate to be able to be transported on a regular basis then I need to look elsewhere. I love how much you can change on the Compass, but unfortunately must look most to my needs (which is the ability to take it to/from work). 

 Secondly, I've read a few things about customs inspecting it and then shipping co's charging on delivery for the costs. Is this the case, and if so how much is it (for the US)?

 Third, how well does it work with the DT770 250, DT770 600, and the K271's mk 2?


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the thing is. If I get it without the cable and I hear anything I dont like Ill say oh see I shoulda bought the cable. I just wish that people wouldn't write that it helps clear out foggyness as that is important to me. Damn the HF-2! Eating all my monies!_

 

Personally I wouldn't bother getting the power cord at this point. Those types of 'tweaks' are mainly for guys that already have it all. It's not necessary to enjoy your Compass. I don't have one and I am enjoying it immensely. Not saying it wouldn't offer an improvement, but you are probably better off spending money on other kit. 

 Oh, and I wouldn't expect to be blown away when you first plug it in. I was a bit underwhelmed at first but then it started to get better. Then a lot better.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DisgruntledVirus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, wasn't that a fun read. 

 Finally made it through this thread (after 5 days or so). I want this amp so bad, but have a few questions. 

 Most importantly is how portable is this? I need an amp I can take with me to/from work, and will fit in my bookbag along with headphones (DT770's or K271's). I don't mind weigh, but if it's too large/delicate to be able to be transported on a regular basis then I need to look elsewhere. I love how much you can change on the Compass, but unfortunately must look most to my needs (which is the ability to take it to/from work). 

 Secondly, I've read a few things about customs inspecting it and then shipping co's charging on delivery for the costs. Is this the case, and if so how much is it (for the US)?

 Third, how well does it work with the DT770 250, DT770 600, and the K271's mk 2?_

 

It certainly is not meant to be portable. That said, it is built like a tank and if weight really isn't an issue, it will fit in a bag - just probably won't be to comfortable - it is pretty heavy. The HDAM would be the thing to be careful of as it could easily come lose, and it somewhat fragile. If I were going to transport mine, I'd take out the HDAM and pack it separately. 

 I've yet to hear of a case where the US customs charge us anything.


----------



## garfnon

Quote:


 Dimensions: width 250mm, height 75mm and depth 290mm. 
 

That's pretty big to be lugging around, not to mention these things probably aren't really designed to be portable.


----------



## yepyep_

Yeah the Compass isn't really portable. Here's a picture to give you an idea of the size "in real life":







 It weighs 4.95kg according to the audio-gd webpage (I'm not sure if this is the weigh of the whole package or just the Compass, but in any case the Compass alone wouldn't be much less).

 On top of that, like ScottieB said, is the possible HDAM problem. If you don't take the foam off, the HDAM stays in place pretty nicely, but it is suggested to remove it due to possible heat problems. So without the foam you'd have to be very careful when moving the Compass and/or take the lid off everytime to make sure the HDAM is fully in place before powering on the Compass.

 You may want to look elsewhere if you absolutely need a decent portable dac/amp, as the Compass wasn't designed to be one.


----------



## DisgruntledVirus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yepyep_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah the Compass isn't really portable. Here's a picture to give you an idea of the size "in real life":






 It weighs 4.95kg according to the audio-gd webpage.

 On top of that, like ScottieB said, is the possible HDAM problem. If you don't take the foam off, the HDAM stays in place pretty nicely, but it is suggested to remove it due to possible heat problems. So without the foam you'd have to be very careful when moving the Compass and/or take the lid off everytime to make sure the HDAM is fully in place before powering on the Compass.

 You may want to look elsewhere if you absolutely need a decent portable dac/amp, as the Compass wasn't designed to be one._

 

Thanks for the replies so far everybody. 

 The weight isn't so much of an issue (being in college I'm used to lugging around lots of weight in my backpack ), and it would fit in my backpack. I kind of figured it wasn't meant to be portable, but was hoping I could haul it in my bookbag to/from work. I don't trust people here enough to leave it at my desk at work, and don't spend enough time at home to justify buying it solely for home use either. I don't want to have to buy two amps (one to take with me to/from work and the Compass ), but if I have to I could. 

 Glad to hear there aren't customs issues. Maybe I misread that earlier in this thread, but for some reason I was thinking some people were charged for it. 

 Just asked Kingwa what he thinks about portability, and also a quote (in case I decide to get it+portable amp ). 

 Crap this hobby is getting expensive already....


----------



## DisgruntledVirus

Well, that was fast. 

  Quote:


 If you want to move it every days, you can don't remove the foam on the top, then you don't need remove the OPA.
 It has around 5KG, so you can know if you can take it every days.
 Kingwa 
 

Sounds like Kingwa just recommends leaving the foam there and it's fine to transport daily. Would the C2C or the ST-3 be better options instead? The C2C is the same dimensions/weight, but the ST-3 is a bit smaller and looks more safe to transport daily (also weighs less).


----------



## druelle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because I got all 3 I hope to do a nice shoot out between them all on every jumper setting with my DT-990 after burn in. I hope that my results will aid fellow DT-990 owners and others who wish for more comments on the differences. Also I am going to need to brush up on my vocabulary so that I can explain everything in the words you all use as I am not accustom to writing audio reviews. Therefore, anything I have to say should be cum grano salis, however; I am still going to do the shootout for those that want the into. Also, you got to start somewhere!_

 

Thanks for taking the time to do this. I have the same cans and I'd be very interested to hear about your findings. Are you going to post in this thread or create a new one?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DisgruntledVirus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad to hear there aren't customs issues. Maybe I misread that earlier in this thread, but for some reason I was thinking some people were charged for it. 
_

 

We're just lucky that the US doesn't really charge for this sort of thing (yet) - it seems most other countries do, though.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DisgruntledVirus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, that was fast. 



 Sounds like Kingwa just recommends leaving the foam there and it's fine to transport daily. Would the C2C or the ST-3 be better options instead? The C2C is the same dimensions/weight, but the ST-3 is a bit smaller and looks more safe to transport daily (also weighs less)._

 

Compass is DAC, HeadAmp plus preamp
 C2C is only Headamp
 ST3 is HeadAmp and preamp

 What do you want to buy?


----------



## DisgruntledVirus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Compass is DAC, HeadAmp plus preamp
 C2C is only Headamp
 ST3 is HeadAmp and preamp

 What do you want to buy?_

 

First and foremost: an amp. A good amp.

 Second, but really important: the ability to bring it with me to/from work

 Outside of those two requirements, a DAC would be nice but a preamp isn't needed (for now or in the future, and if it is I would most likely just go buy a specific preamp).


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We're just lucky that the US doesn't really charge for this sort of thing (yet) - it seems most other countries do, though._

 

Well, Our New Leader just hired 800 Brand New IRS agents. He's all about the Benjamins. Wait till he finds out there is meat left on the table.

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DisgruntledVirus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First and foremost: an amp. A good amp.

 Second, but really important: the ability to bring it with me to/from work

 Outside of those two requirements, a DAC would be nice but a preamp isn't needed (for now or in the future, and if it is I would most likely just go buy a specific preamp)._

 

Well, in that case if I was you :

 I would have carried a brick in my backpack (or something weighing around 5kg and similar dimensions) tomorrow and see if its comfortable.

 If yes, I would have gone for Compass, because it has everything (DAC, headamp and preamp) to start of with.

 If it was too heavy, I would go for the ST3 as it weighs less than both the C2C and Compass.

 C2C is out because it has the same dimensions as Compass and weighs approximately the same too.

 Btw, I have to mention that there are other DAC/Headamp combo in the market apart from Audio GD which weigh less and might be more suitable/convenient for you in your situation.

 EDIT- Actually going by your needs, I think even the C2C comes in the picture, because as far as I know and I have heard from people that have both Compass and C2C, the latter is much superior to the headamp of Compass.


----------



## DisgruntledVirus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, in that case if I was you :

 I would have carried a brick in my backpack (or something weighing around 5kg and similar dimensions) tomorrow and see if its comfortable.

 If yes, I would have gone for Compass, because it has everything (DAC, headamp and preamp) to start of with.

 If it was too heavy, I would go for the ST3 as it weighs less than both the C2C and Compass.

 C2C is out because it has the same dimensions as Compass and weighs approximately the same too.

 Btw, I have to mention that there are many DAC/Headamp combo in the market apart from Audio GD which would weigh less and might be more suitable/convenient for you in your situation._

 

Well, I have carried multiple 10 lb laptops in this bookbag (which are a bit larger width/length) and been fine. I wouldn't want to do it long distances or anything like that, but it's for 2 min to get to my car and 5 min to go from car to desk at work so it's not that big a deal. I'll put up with that for good sound quality 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think the only two real choices are ST-3 or Compass from Audio GD. I am curious though, what are other alternatives in the <$500 dac/amp arena I could look into?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DisgruntledVirus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I have carried multiple 10 lb laptops in this bookbag (which are a bit larger width/length) and been fine. I wouldn't want to do it long distances or anything like that, but it's for 2 min to get to my car and 5 min to go from car to desk at work so it's not that big a deal. I'll put up with that for good sound quality 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think the only two real choices are ST-3 or Compass from Audio GD. I am curious though, what are other alternatives in the <$500 dac/amp arena I could look into?_

 

If weight and size inst a problem, then in that case Compass would be a better option than ST3, Kingwa says the Amp section of Compass is same if not better than ST3, plus you get a DAC.

 There may be other options below $500, but I haven't used any so I am not in a position to recommend or even suggest..


----------



## zeroibis

I think the lack of customs charges has to do with US trade treaties with China that other countries do not enjoy.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, Our New Leader just hired 800 Brand New IRS agents. He's all about the Benjamins. Wait till he finds out there is meat left on the table.

 ._

 

Indeed - hence the (yet)...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the lack of customs charges has to do with US trade treaties with China that other countries do not enjoy._

 

I think we're supposed to pay duties, it's just we're not good at collecting. I was hit once from Japan and once from Germany. Both times the shipper was Fedex. There might have been one other Fedex hit for something I don't quite remember. Luckily few shippers use Fedex from oversees anymore. What happens is FEDEX just sends you a bill in the mail later.

 .


----------



## LevA

Hi all,

 I've been going through the thread as much as I can (its a long thread!!) but finally gave up searching and just gonna ask you all the question on my mind.

 Would compass be an overkill for esw10jpn? thats the only headphone I have and don't see buying a full size headphone in the near future as I am quite happy with it. however, I am intrigued by using an amp to get better sound out of the 10's. 

 I'm debating between ibasso d10 and the compass. each have their good points, portability vs compass modifications with earth, sun, moon etc. (plus looks like fun to play around with and might learn a thing or two in the process).

 this will be my first amp so complete newby in that respect. my main concern is that d10 will be enough and I wont see any benefit from getting the compass unless I go for full size cans. 

 also, for the time being I will use only ipod 5.5G and macbook pro for source. all music lossless. 

 thanks in advance


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, Our New Leader just hired 800 Brand New IRS agents. He's all about the Benjamins. Wait till he finds out there is meat left on the table.

 ._

 

Wouldn't that meat be subject to a carbon tax ? Unfortunately I'm not kidding.

 Peete.


----------



## DoYouRight

That is my issue too I have ESW10JPN and was considering ibasso d10. But considering the improvements in the compass i think it's the better choice. 

 When iBasso releases a BETTER portable or transportable maybe in the future. But now Id rather have something that will not cause as much upgraditis and the like.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wouldn't that meat be subject to a carbon tax ? Unfortunately I'm not kidding.

 Peete._

 

I know you're not kidding. I had no idea the Lunacy down here was going on up there though. Unless of course our Government is taking taxation lessons from the Cannucks!

 .


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know you're not kidding. I had no idea the Lunacy down here was going on up there though. Unless of course our Government is taking taxation lessons from the Cannucks!

 ._

 

Now if only we would start raising taxes here in Canada as well, things would be so much better! Also, I didn't have to say any customs for delivery to Canada.


----------



## obentou

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,

 I've been going through the thread as much as I can (its a long thread!!) but finally gave up searching and just gonna ask you all the question on my mind.

 Would compass be an overkill for esw10jpn? thats the only headphone I have and don't see buying a full size headphone in the near future as I am quite happy with it. however, I am intrigued by using an amp to get better sound out of the 10's. 

 I'm debating between ibasso d10 and the compass. each have their good points, portability vs compass modifications with earth, sun, moon etc. (plus looks like fun to play around with and might learn a thing or two in the process).

 this will be my first amp so complete newby in that respect. my main concern is that d10 will be enough and I wont see any benefit from getting the compass unless I go for full size cans. 

 also, for the time being I will use only ipod 5.5G and macbook pro for source. all music lossless. 

 thanks in advance_

 

In the same situation as you, with an ESW10JPN and iBasso D10.

 I found myself having the D10 clunky for portable use, despite its small size. I just prefer the headphone/IEM and player, that's it. 

 So I traded my D10's for a pair of AKG K701's and ordered a Compass. With the testimonials here re: the K701 + Compass, I expect things to be much better than a ESW10 and D10 combo!


----------



## zupa

well I just ordered mine
 Hopefully it will arrive fairly quick.

 Will be pairing up with an HD650


----------



## obentou

Good choice, mine was shipped today. I have to find a way to clear some room off my desk, I actually don't think I have enough room for the compass after looking at its dimensions... lol


----------



## thingfisher

"Any good choices for a surge protector to plug the Compass into? I was using a plain vanilla power strip/ surge protetor for my Zero before it failed me (although I'm not sure if that had to do with an unprotected surge or QC issues, or some combination of both). I was reading favorable posts about a Belkin on another thread, but was curious about what the favorites are."


 EDIT: Found some discussion earlier in the thread.


----------



## Skorpitarius

APC surge protectors . 

 Got my Compass today after missing the delivery attempt Friday .
 Quite impressive looking and nice and solid . 

 So far, sounds wonderful .
 I'm having trouble with getting Winamp to play through it .
 Seem only to be able to get it to play via the USB as well .
 It's not the Compass, it's my newbie-ness with the Winamp / ASIO settings .
 Still trying to figure all that out .
 Feel free to school me on what maybe i'm doing wrong .

 I will leave it powered on for a few days at least to burn-in moreso ... but it does sound really nice as is, I will say ... no complaints, sonically : )))) (mind you , I do not have a huge range of things to compare it to but sounding good is sounding good no matter ...)

 I'm listening to some music that i'm familiar with as a reference ...


----------



## jjo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XXII* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great! I look forward to your impressions._

 

Me too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just got some brand spanking new speakers and I think I'll be spending a lot of time with them in the near future.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XXII* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What were you using with the A2000 previously?_

 

That's just the thing, I hadn't found anything that I really liked with these headphones. That's actually the reason they've gotten some compass time in addition to my work cans. I have RudiStor RPX-33 Mk2 and SinglePower MPX3 but out of these three, I like Compass the most with these headphones. I've also auditioned MuFi X-Can V8 and the Yamamoto, but they didn't work for me (with these headphones) either.

 Somehow the a2000x has been kinda hard for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe I should get my other AT cans some Compass time also.

 And no, I'm not saying Compass is (on an absolute scale) a better headphone amp than any of the ones I mentioned before, but _for me_, _with these headphones_, _right now_ it seems to work really well. Still some burning in to do and OPAs to go through though.


----------



## Dankerz

Hey Peete. I don't want to be a bother but is part III of your review still in the works? Did I miss it? I didn't see a link on the FAQ thread for it if you did. Thanks for taking the time for the rest of us.


----------



## Shizdan

Hey Guys do you know how to open it up? (what screws do i take out)

 Also, any link to the manual (If there is one)?

 Edit * I didn't pull hard enough lol* *Never mind about the manual. Apparently it is on the cover lol*


----------



## zeroibis

I would recommend some APC battery backups. This way your never without sound! Hey works great for me...


----------



## LevA

Quote:


 In the same situation as you, with an ESW10JPN and iBasso D10.

 I found myself having the D10 clunky for portable use, despite its small size. I just prefer the headphone/IEM and player, that's it. 

 So I traded my D10's for a pair of AKG K701's and ordered a Compass. With the testimonials here re: the K701 + Compass, I expect things to be much better than a ESW10 and D10 combo! 
 

That sounds like a good way to go but unfortunately I wont be getting any new cans. And won't part with my es10's as I use them a lot when traveling and going to library, cafe etc.

 I definitely believe compass is a better dac/amp than D10 but again when paired only with esw10's will they be overkill?? has anyone tried compass with esw10's or 9's??


----------



## zupa

Just to be safe, this is the type of optical cable that will connect to the Compass?

Amazon.com: Cables To Go 98038 Premium Toslink Optical Digital Audio Cable (8 Feet, Black/Grey): Electronics

 Plan to connect it to my X-Fi Titanium pro. Has anyone connected the compass to their soundcard via optical? Just wondering what settings I will have to change.

 thanks


----------



## Currawong

Just a reminder here to people who are new to the thread to read the FAQ. There's no need to read the whole thread in that case. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Somehow the a2000x has been kinda hard for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe I should get my other AT cans some Compass time also.

 And no, I'm not saying Compass is (on an absolute scale) a better headphone amp than any of the ones I mentioned before, but _for me_, _with these headphones_, _right now_ it seems to work really well. Still some burning in to do and OPAs to go through though._

 

I have the A1000X here and I understand what you mean. They sound quite different from other ATs. I'm not sure I'd prefer the Compass for amping them over my C2C, but when I had cans that were quite bassey I preferred the Compass sometimes.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I definitely believe compass is a better dac/amp than D10 but again when paired only with esw10's will they be overkill?? has anyone tried compass with esw10's or 9's??_

 

I recall HeadphoneAddict using his with a $2.5k Zana Deux. They are, after all, $500 headphones, which is far from cheap. I was thinking of borrowing a pair from a friend again to try with different sources as I only tried them briefly twice.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


 Quote:
 Originally Posted by LevA 
 I definitely believe compass is a better dac/amp than D10 but again when paired only with esw10's will they be overkill?? has anyone tried compass with esw10's or 9's??
 I recall HeadphoneAddict using his with a $2.5k Zana Deux. They are, after all, $500 headphones, which is far from cheap. I was thinking of borrowing a pair from a friend again to try with different sources as I only tried them briefly twice. 
 

Thats a good point there, but I guess the $500 cost is partly due to its portability/ limited edition status. I read in another post that they don't scale as well as full size cans, which sort of got me thinking. 
 I love listening to classical music, especially symphonies so that's pretty much the main reason I want to get an amp, hoping an increase in the soundstage. 
 I'm surprised no one has esw9's to try them out as they seems pretty popular on head-fi.
 btw, thanks for setting up the compass project and the FAQ posts. they were very helpful for a newby like me.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would recommend some APC battery backups. This way your never without sound! Hey works great for me..._

 

My Compass is plugged in to the APC UPS my computer is on but I don't believe it's connected to a socket that is on the battery backup.

 When I get my new Compass it'll go in the same spot and my test Compass will get transferred to my stereo where it'll be plugged in to my APC line conditioner (got that during a crazy sale).


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DisgruntledVirus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, wasn't that a fun read. 

 Finally made it through this thread (after 5 days or so). I want this amp so bad, but have a few questions. 

 Most importantly is how portable is this? I need an amp I can take with me to/from work, and will fit in my bookbag along with headphones (DT770's or K271's). I don't mind weigh, but if it's too large/delicate to be able to be transported on a regular basis then I need to look elsewhere. I love how much you can change on the Compass, but unfortunately must look most to my needs (which is the ability to take it to/from work). 

 Secondly, I've read a few things about customs inspecting it and then shipping co's charging on delivery for the costs. Is this the case, and if so how much is it (for the US)?

 Third, how well does it work with the DT770 250, DT770 600, and the K271's mk 2?_

 

I would agree with the others as well, it is definitely not portable. You should possibly look at the Ray Samuels Audio P-51 mustang, its a really small amp that has been getting its fair share of rave reviews on its thread. From what I can tell, the two do sound different, but they are both very good, I would look through that thread and see if anything jumps out at you, because it really is minuscule. 

 Has anyone on this thread heard anything about it?


----------



## Shizdan

double post


----------



## Shizdan

Heres How My compass is setup.
 PC-->(usb) Keyboard (USB out on keyboard)---> (Usb) Compass

 Do you think running it through my keyboard (Logitech G11 new version) is hurting me i any way?

 I have to for now because my usb cable doesn't reach 10 feet, only 3 for now


 Also,I just got done setting it up with my HD 580's and wow. I'm blown away. I'm hearing things I have never heard in Comfortably Numb! I feel like I'm just falling through clouds yet flying through space lol


----------



## MysteryMachine

Just got my compass today. I am LOVING the Moon + Bright for electronica. I slightly favor the Earth + Neutral for Rock. Even though I listen to more rock than electronica the bright moon is so good on electronica I will probably keep that in long term as its not bad for rock.

 I wanted to start on Earth + soft 2 for burn-in but it was one of the worst combos. I leave on a 2 week vacation on friday so I will have to go to soft 2 and let it go while I am on the trip (but not turn up the volume so I don't annoy my officemate when I am gone - hopefully low volume is still OK for burnin?)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zupa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to be safe, this is the type of optical cable that will connect to the Compass?

Amazon.com: Cables To Go 98038 Premium Toslink Optical Digital Audio Cable (8 Feet, Black/Grey): Electronics

 Plan to connect it to my X-Fi Titanium pro. Has anyone connected the compass to their soundcard via optical? Just wondering what settings I will have to change.

 thanks_

 

That looks like the correct cable. The compass comes with one but its short. I will be hooking the compass up via optical to my x-fi titanium as well in the near future so I've been researching setup. From what I have read you'll want to do the following: Set the x-fi to audio creation mode, turn off all the things like CRSS, EAX etc (forget all the names since I am not on my PC with x-fi now). In Foobar2000 (if you are using foobar) load the ASIO dll and set the output to Creative ASIO. If its like my audigy 2 platinum ex you will also need to setup a resampling in Foobar to match the rate of the Creative ASIO. I've also read about setting the X-Fi into bit-perfect mode but I've also read some threads where people had problems with that. So I plan to get it all working with all the other things first before trying the bit perfect.

 Hope that quick overview helps. Its not from personal experience (yet) but its my plan of attack with the x-fi.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heres How My compass is setup.
 PC-->(usb) Keyboard (USB out on keyboard)---> (Usb) Compass

 Do you think running it through my keyboard (Logitech G11 new version) is hurting me i any way?

 I have to for now because my usb cable doesn't reach 10 feet, only 3 for now


 Also,I just got done setting it up with my HD 580's and wow. I'm blown away. I'm hearing things I have never heard in Comfortably Numb! I feel like I'm just falling through clouds yet flying through space lol_

 

I don't think it matters with USB. As long as your not getting any extraneous noise you should be fine the way you have it setup.


 Peete.


----------



## drummer1985

hi all masters here! this might be a silly question due the the fact i dont have any experience with optical output kinda things. i have a creative x-fi notebook with optical out, i m looking a for optical cable to for link it to compass, my questions are these,do i need to set anything for the creative card to work with compass? and can i still use the creative sound modes or anything? or am i going to just got stereo mode sound with nothing altered from the creative card? thank you very much in advance!


----------



## zupa

Thanks for info mystery. I will be setting up all my stuff in a few weeks i'll be sure to check back with you. I will probably be using bit perfect mode, hopefully it will work ok.

 good luck 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MysteryMachine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That looks like the correct cable. The compass comes with one but its short. I will be hooking the compass up via optical to my x-fi titanium as well in the near future so I've been researching setup. From what I have read you'll want to do the following: Set the x-fi to audio creation mode, turn off all the things like CRSS, EAX etc (forget all the names since I am not on my PC with x-fi now). In Foobar2000 (if you are using foobar) load the ASIO dll and set the output to Creative ASIO. If its like my audigy 2 platinum ex you will also need to setup a resampling in Foobar to match the rate of the Creative ASIO. I've also read about setting the X-Fi into bit-perfect mode but I've also read some threads where people had problems with that. So I plan to get it all working with all the other things first before trying the bit perfect.

 Hope that quick overview helps. Its not from personal experience (yet) but its my plan of attack with the x-fi._


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drummer1985* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi all masters here! this might be a silly question due the the fact i dont have any experience with optical output kinda things. i have a creative x-fi notebook with optical out, i m looking a for optical cable to for link it to compass, my questions are these,do i need to set anything for the creative card to work with compass? and can i still use the creative sound modes or anything? or am i going to just got stereo mode sound with nothing altered from the creative card? thank you very much in advance!_

 

You only need to worry about Music playback ...what I mean by that is setup Winamp/Foobar/Media Monkey etc for bit perfect mode using the Creative ASIO driver and choose Audio Creation Mode...selecting bit perfect will automatically disable the effects stuff for the card....however when it comes time to play a game you can then go into game mode and use the effects as before only this time you'll have the speaker output set at 2.1 rather than 5.1

 There are FAQ's for Media Monkey and Foobar to set up ASIO properly and it's easy as pie to do so. Enjoy the tunes/games 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zupa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for info mystery. I will be setting up all my stuff in a few weeks i'll be sure to check back with you. I will probably be using bit perfect mode, hopefully it will work ok.

 good luck_

 


 Yes by all means use bit perfect mode. It works just fine. Don't resample anything it's a step not needed and will degrade the data stream. The idea is to bypass onboard hardware and software resampling or digital manipulation beyond transport duties.

 See above message for FAQ ASIO setup instructions (google ASIO for X or Y media players and follow config setup).

 Peete.


----------



## drummer1985

thanks Peete! i think i will try using the wasapi driver with usb connection and experiment with this first.


----------



## SoFGR

they send me an ems tracking number a week ago so it's all good, can't wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 to akg601/701 owners : do you prefer bright or neutral jumper setting with moon ? please explain why 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to x-fi users : my titanium has an optical output so i just use the supplied optical cable and i'm all set right ? is there any output in windows mixer that i have to unmute ? i see digital-in mic line out etc displayed but no digital out control, why ? 

 can i still enable headphone cmss3d and use 5.1 settings in windows and games ?( like this Guru3D.com Forums - View Single Post - X-Fi CMSS-3D Headphone ) it works just fine on analog even through a PA2V2 (mini headphone amp), but i'm afraid that connecting the soundcard through digital to a stereo DAC/amp will give me trouble with these settings, anyone who uses x-fi + spdif DAC please chime in


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_they send me an ems tracking number a week ago so it's all good, can't wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to akg601/701 owners : do you prefer bright or neutral jumper setting with moon ? please explain why 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to x-fi users : my titanium has an optical output so i just use the supplied optical cable and i'm all set right ? is there any output in windows mixer that i have to unmute ? i see digital-in mic line out etc displayed but no digital out control, why ? 

 can i still enable headphone cmss3d and use 5.1 settings in windows and games ?( like this Guru3D.com Forums - View Single Post - X-Fi CMSS-3D Headphone ) it works just fine on analog even through a PA2V2 (mini headphone amp), but i'm afraid that connecting the soundcard through digital to a stereo DAC/amp will give me trouble with these settings, anyone who uses x-fi + spdif DAC please chime in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes you can, just make sure your are NOT set to bitstream out for Dolbby Digital or DTS - if you send the bitstream you will get NASTY static. You want it set to 'internal decoder' and not bitstream/external decoder. For the 'pseudo surround' you should choose headphones or cmss3d headphone. For music, stick to audio creation mode, 2 channel out (not headphone) and bit perfect -- since music is made to be stereo. Everything else, though you can play around with. For games, I go to game mode and set it to cmss3d headphone.


----------



## drummer1985

ok, i m using usb to compass now,install latest version of the foobar2000 for the first time into my pc, i tried to played the same song on windows media player and sonicstage and they play well and no weird stopping/breaking/pausing/static sound like i play the same song in foobar,what did i do wrong for the foobar setting? sorry, i m absolutely newbie for this foobar software but i have follow the provided link in the first page of this thread to setup in the wasapi driver mode. what did i actually missing now? thank you very much for those who helped.


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes you can, just make sure your are NOT set to bitstream out for Dolbby Digital or DTS - if you send the bitstream you will get NASTY static. You want it set to 'internal decoder' and not bitstream/external decoder. For the 'pseudo surround' you should choose headphones or cmss3d headphone. For music, stick to audio creation mode, 2 channel out (not headphone) and bit perfect -- since music is made to be stereo. Everything else, though you can play around with. For games, I go to game mode and set it to cmss3d headphone._

 

intergrated DTS decoder does not function on titanium cards due to licensing issues, it worked just fine on my pci platinum but when using a pci-e x-fi there is no longer a DTS/dolby pro decoder tab visible in the audio panel, you have to use software decoder like powerDVD and AC3filter, btw do you have any games handy to test with openAL support instead or directsound ? ( ut3 / red orchestra / america's army / killing floor / ut2004 ) 

 I've read somewhere that prelude cards have trouble in gaming through spdif, non functioning hardware openAL acceleration and the X-fi setting in BF2/bf2142 gets grayed out, regular x-fis are said to have no problems but no one has ever mentioned the titanium versions 

 I've spent 270 euros on this thing so i would be very dissapointed if it doesn't work in music AND games. I plan to buy the akgs 601 by the time this thing arrives so there is no way that i will use them unamped.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drummer1985* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, i m using usb to compass now,install latest version of the foobar2000 for the first time into my pc, i tried to played the same song on windows media player and sonicstage and they play well and no weird stopping/breaking/pausing/static sound like i play the same song in foobar,what did i do wrong for the foobar setting? sorry, i m absolutely newbie for this foobar software but i have follow the provided link in the first page of this thread to setup in the wasapi driver mode. what did i actually missing now? thank you very much for those who helped._

 

Did you select the USB driver in Foobar from the output driver/dll selection panel ?

 Double check your settings and google USB audio / Foobar2000 setup guide.

 Peete.


----------



## MysteryMachine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zupa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for info mystery. I will be setting up all my stuff in a few weeks i'll be sure to check back with you. I will probably be using bit perfect mode, hopefully it will work ok.

 good luck_

 

Have it hooked up to my X-fi now. The setup for X-Fi MUCH simpler than my Audigy 2 becuase you don't need the resampling - it appears in bit perfect mode the card will just pass it from the source (so long as your source is 96kHz or less, titanium maxes out at 96kHz). Perhaps the issues people had with bit-perfect were with old drivers as its working flawless for me.

 Here is the summary (Pete was right about bit-matched and resampler):
 Hardare: Optical Out to Compass

 Creative Software: Audio Creation Mode, 2/2.1 speakers, settings (button on the audio creation mode page): Clock - if its working right it shouldn't matter what you set to when you play music it will change to match. Bit-Matched checked. Encoder be sure that dolby digital is unchecked.

 Foobar: Load the ASIO dll, set your ouput to the Creative ASIO driver. No resamplers or anything needed


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_intergrated DTS decoder does not function on titanium cards due to licensing issues, it worked just fine on my pci platinum but when using a pci-e x-fi there is no longer a DTS/dolby pro decoder tab visible in the audio panel, you have to use software decoder like powerDVD and AC3filter, btw do you have any games handy to test with openAL support instead or directsound ? ( ut3 / red orchestra / america's army / killing floor / ut2004 ) 

 I've read somewhere that prelude cards have trouble in gaming through spdif, non functioning hardware openAL acceleration and the X-fi setting in BF2/bf2142 gets grayed out, regular x-fis are said to have no problems but no one has ever mentioned the titanium versions 

 I've spent 270 euros on this thing so i would be very dissapointed if it doesn't work in music AND games. I plan to buy the akgs 601 by the time this thing arrives so there is no way that i will use them unamped._

 

That's fine - a program like VLC or kmplayer or whatever can decode the DTS for you anyway - I was just explaining the settings on the Xfi panel (you don't want bitsream out) for using the digital out with your compass.

 Also, I have the PCI version, not PCI-E, and am on XP... so it may be different there... but I have no problems with UT3.


----------



## drummer1985

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you select the USB driver in Foobar from the output driver/dll selection panel ?

 Double check your settings and google USB audio / Foobar2000 setup guide.

 Peete._

 

thank you Peete! but i have solved the problem,it's easy as changing the wasapi driver that i downloaded additionally to the default usb dac output mode and now everything seems ok, the sound is pretty good, i think the dac need a lot hours to burn-in like others here, hopefully it ends with great quality sound. so far so good with the compass,i m enjoying it right when typing here.hehe....


----------



## fluffygdog95

I ordered the Compass and I am awaiting the e-mail to track it.


----------



## obentou

Hmm, for those who received tracking #'s, did it take you a while for status updates to appear?

 I heard something about the "production warehouse" to the actual "shipping facility" taking some time, so perhaps I may be experiencing this? My tracking # was given to me on Sunday (which I assume is Monday afternoon in China), but nothing is showing up.


----------



## jjo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, for those who received tracking #'s, did it take you a while for status updates to appear?_

 

Yes. This is perfectly normal.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Obentou by the time the info shows up on the tracking page the courier will likely be walking up your driveway ready to ring the bell....relax my friend all is cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This has happened to me 3 different times (twice with DHL and once with EMS)...the quickest from Kingwa/Audio-gd to my front door was an incredible 3 days and that was shipped on a Sat there(Friday here)..arrived Monday afternoon here. Confused yet ? I think I am 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Obentou by the time the info shows up on the tracking page the courier will likely be walking up your driveway ready to ring the bell....relax my friend all is cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This has happened to me 3 different times (twice with DHL and once with EMS)...the quickest from Kingwa/Audio-gd to my front door was an incredible 3 days and that was shipped on a Sat there(Friday here)..arrived Monday afternoon here. Confused yet ? I think I am 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 

Perhaps the strange tendencies of the tracking info should be added to the FAQ as well? Seems to come up a lot.


----------



## thingfisher

I got my DHL tracking number Sunday night. It didn't show up on DHL until Monday evening. Since then, DHL tracking seems to be working well. We'll see how long it takes to get from Hong Kong to Texas...


 5/20/2009 12:36 am Processed at DHL Location. Hong Kong - Hub, Hong Kong 
 12:36 am Clearance processing complete Hong Kong - Hub, Hong Kong 
 12:22 am Transit through DHL facility Hong Kong - Hub, Hong Kong 
 5/19/2009 9:52 pm Depart Facility Shenzhen, China, People's Republic 
 9:51 pm Processed at DHL Location. Shenzhen, China, People's Republic 
 9:49 pm Transit through DHL facility Shenzhen, China, People's Republic 
 7:34 pm Departing origin. Shenzhen, China, People's Republic 
 5:37 pm Shipment picked up Shenzhen, China, People's Republic


----------



## obentou

Oh hey thanks for the replies guys, that's a relief.

 I had it shipped via. EMS, didn't want to risk the DHL route! It'll probably take longer


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh hey thanks for the replies guys, that's a relief.

 I had it shipped via. EMS, didn't want to risk the DHL route! It'll probably take longer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I was part of the same shipment as the baggers, but got lucky in shipping EMS, anyway, it took so long that by the time I'd recieved it the next shipment had already started and the DHL problems had been solved. It seems to take some time, but it does get there in the end!


----------



## tehdoom

I pulled the trigger and ordered a compass about a week ago. It seems that their site (audio-gd.com) is down now; should I be concerned? I'm new to the forum and, indeed, to good sound--This has been my first significant purchase, so I'm probably just overanxious...


----------



## MysteryMachine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tehdoom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I pulled the trigger and ordered a compass about a week ago. It seems that their site (audio-gd.com) is down now; should I be concerned? I'm new to the forum and, indeed, to good sound--This has been my first significant purchase, so I'm probably just overanxious..._

 


 Nah, there site goes down alot - I was worried at first too. Have no worries. Just read the testimonies and the story behind the Compass and it will make you feel better


----------



## rayk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tehdoom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I pulled the trigger and ordered a compass about a week ago. It seems that their site (audio-gd.com) is down now; should I be concerned? I'm new to the forum and, indeed, to good sound--This has been my first significant purchase, so I'm probably just overanxious..._

 

My first purchase too, but the communication has been excellent so I wouldn't worry.


----------



## Skorpitarius

no worries, mates


----------



## rayk

Quick question, how long is the USB cable that comes with the compass?


----------



## cyberidd

So I'm having a hard time figuring this out. I have the DT990 (250 ohm) - a headphone that is known to be a very bright phone with a problem with sibilance, and yet my favourite setting on the Sun HDAM is the Bright setting, and I really enjoy Earth on Bright as well! Why and how is this the case??? It becomes more confusing for of because I remember other people reviewing the Compass with the HD650 for example, and saying that the Bright setting is too bright and sibilant! I didn't think that I was overly partial to bright sounding equipment, although I didn't hate it, and sibilance was a big problem with some songs when running straight from my (incredibly cheap onboard) sound card, and I can sometimes hear it with the Compass, but for the most part it sounds fine! WHATS GOING ON?!?


----------



## jlaakso

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I'm having a hard time figuring this out. I have the DT990 (250 ohm) - a headphone that is known to be a very bright phone with a problem with sibilance, and yet my favourite setting on the Sun HDAM is the Bright setting, and I really enjoy Earth on Bright as well! Why and how is this the case??? It becomes more confusing for of because I remember other people reviewing the Compass with the HD650 for example, and saying that the Bright setting is too bright and sibilant! I didn't think that I was overly partial to bright sounding equipment, although I didn't hate it, and sibilance was a big problem with some songs when running straight from my (incredibly cheap onboard) sound card, and I can sometimes hear it with the Compass, but for the most part it sounds fine! WHATS GOING ON?!?_

 

Synergy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If it sounds fine, it is fine. Comparing two different cans, reflecting reviewers' personal preferences and tastes, well.. All that matters, is what You hear


----------



## yepyep_

Exactly. Others can't decide your favorite color for you.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the delicate upstairs ate the consequence?


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I'm having a hard time figuring this out. I have the DT990 (250 ohm) - a headphone that is known to be a very bright phone with a problem with sibilance, and yet my favourite setting on the Sun HDAM is the Bright setting, and I really enjoy Earth on Bright as well! Why and how is this the case??? It becomes more confusing for of because I remember other people reviewing the Compass with the HD650 for example, and saying that the Bright setting is too bright and sibilant! I didn't think that I was overly partial to bright sounding equipment, although I didn't hate it, and sibilance was a big problem with some songs when running straight from my (incredibly cheap onboard) sound card, and I can sometimes hear it with the Compass, but for the most part it sounds fine! WHATS GOING ON?!?_

 

Also, how much time do you have on it? I felt that mine sounded quite dark when I first got it, but then opened up and got brighter after about 100 hrs or so. Now even the Moon can sound bright.


----------



## qib

hi, has anybody experienced crackling when connected to the audioengine a5. I get that sometimes with my speakers and once i switch the compass off and switch it back on it goes away. Also i do get that hum with speakers as well. I know there was something about grounding or something else in this thread but i cant seem to find it. Appreciate any help guys, thanks.


----------



## jlaakso

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qib* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi, has anybody experienced crackling when connected to the audioengine a5. I get that sometimes with my speakers and once i switch the compass off and switch it back on it goes away. Also i do get that hum with speakers as well. I know there was something about grounding or something else in this thread but i cant seem to find it. Appreciate any help guys, thanks._

 

Dunno, if this is the case for humming: http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/DAC-Compass.htm and "Why Compass has some noise while using "Super" mode when it is not being fed with signal to HP amp?" ?


----------



## punk_guy182

After waiting a lil over a month after purchasing my compass, I'm finally listening to it.
 It is amazing with my HD 650. I am never going back to tube amps and it is a major upgrade compared to the ZERO. The sound is very upfront, very dynamic, detailed and with noticeable bass. I love it! It fills in the gaps that my tube amp previously had.
 It is great for electronic music and the genres that ofer sharp and dynamic sounds. My LD MK IV SE mellowed too much my Wu-tang albums and my Benny Benassi stuff.
 Thank you very much Kingwa!


----------



## punk_guy182

Update guys:

 I've just got an eargasm while listening to Armin van Buuren Universal Religion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 This thing is magical. i haven't tried the Moon-OPA but i would love it even more if the soudstage was wider. This is no headphone for grand-pa music. If you like it agressive and in your face, Compass is the way to go!


----------



## denon5000

I have been listening to the Compass for quite sometime now and anyone who hasn't listened to the SUN HDAM in my opinion is missing something. Because according to me, there is such a fundamental difference in the sound between the SUN and EARTH / MOON that the experience of listening with the SUN HDAM cannot be experienced with the other two. I am talking about a fundamental difference in the way the sound is presented and felt. While the MOON & EARTH HDAM's allow you to listen to the music and appreciate the Compass for sounding so clear and good the SUN just pulls you in. It is only with the SUN HDAM I find that I want to keep on listening and not stop. With the other two the music is wonderful too but it does not have the effect of pulling you in completely as the SUN does. This at least is what I feel when listening with the Denon D5000. The difference between the SUN and the other two is that the SUN is like being out on the field playing, no time to analyze you are all in the game, while the EARTH is like the front row seats, which is great, you can observe everything as a neutral party and enjoy, and the MOON is like sitting further up, where you get the feel for the game and the crowd. That's the best way I can explain this. So the MOON and EARTH while different have a similar sound but the SUN is totally different.


----------



## Denaturat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you like it agressive and in your face, Compass is the way to go! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Now that may be true for HD650 and you having switched from the tubes, but IMHO, overall, it is the opposite. I think that Compass (Earth, neutral), while retaining the clarity and punch, is still on the mellower side of neutral sound.


----------



## obentou

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denon5000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been listening to the Compass for quite sometime now and anyone who hasn't listened to the SUN HDAM in my opinion is missing something. Because according to me, there is such a fundamental difference in the sound between the SUN and EARTH / MOON that the experience of listening with the SUN HDAM cannot be experienced with the other two. I am talking about a fundamental difference in the way the sound is presented and felt. While the MOON & EARTH HDAM's allow you to listen to the music and appreciate the Compass for sounding so clear and good the SUN just pulls you in. It is only with the SUN HDAM I find that I want to keep on listening and not stop. With the other two the music is wonderful too but it does not have the effect of pulling you in completely as the SUN does. This at least is what I feel when listening with the Denon D5000. The difference between the SUN and the other two is that the SUN is like being out on the field playing, no time to analyze you are all in the game, while the EARTH is like the front row seats, which is great, you can observe everything as a neutral party and enjoy, and the MOON is like sitting further up, where you get the feel for the game and the crowd. That's the best way I can explain this. So the MOON and EARTH while different have a similar sound but the SUN is totally different._

 

Ugh, I knew I should have bought the SUN HDAM too. 

 But with the crappy USD <> CAD exchange rate, I couldn't


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the dysfunctional weird ate the face?


----------



## zupa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denon5000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been listening to the Compass for quite sometime now and anyone who hasn't listened to the SUN HDAM in my opinion is missing something. Because according to me, there is such a fundamental difference in the sound between the SUN and EARTH / MOON that the experience of listening with the SUN HDAM cannot be experienced with the other two. I am talking about a fundamental difference in the way the sound is presented and felt. While the MOON & EARTH HDAM's allow you to listen to the music and appreciate the Compass for sounding so clear and good the SUN just pulls you in. It is only with the SUN HDAM I find that I want to keep on listening and not stop. With the other two the music is wonderful too but it does not have the effect of pulling you in completely as the SUN does. This at least is what I feel when listening with the Denon D5000. The difference between the SUN and the other two is that the SUN is like being out on the field playing, no time to analyze you are all in the game, while the EARTH is like the front row seats, which is great, you can observe everything as a neutral party and enjoy, and the MOON is like sitting further up, where you get the feel for the game and the crowd. That's the best way I can explain this. So the MOON and EARTH while different have a similar sound but the SUN is totally different._

 

This is good to hear, I have a compass with all 3 HDAMs and a D7000 ordered. I'm curious did you burn in the Sun at all? What about the D5000 or compass?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The SUN has a track record of being the most impressive module at first but once everything finally burns in the other modules are normally settled on (one or the other). Very few actually stay with the SUN.....it would help if denon5000 laid out source info, music genre and file type and quality and hours on both the SUN module and the Compass...that way if his gear is fully burned in we know he's making a statement about mature electronics and this stance will not change radically in 2 weeks time. I have no wish to discourage sales of modules but I do wish to save members some money if they find the SUN isn't much to to their liking and will resent post's like denon5000's because their experience will not match his......

 Please qualify your opinions please with pertinent info, hours on module and Compass...source, cabling etc...that helps greatly with making fully informed choices.


 Peete.


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denon5000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been listening to the Compass for quite sometime now and anyone who hasn't listened to the SUN HDAM in my opinion is missing something. Because according to me, there is such a fundamental difference in the sound between the SUN and EARTH / MOON that the experience of listening with the SUN HDAM cannot be experienced with the other two. I am talking about a fundamental difference in the way the sound is presented and felt. While the MOON & EARTH HDAM's allow you to listen to the music and appreciate the Compass for sounding so clear and good the SUN just pulls you in. It is only with the SUN HDAM I find that I want to keep on listening and not stop. With the other two the music is wonderful too but it does not have the effect of pulling you in completely as the SUN does. This at least is what I feel when listening with the Denon D5000. The difference between the SUN and the other two is that the SUN is like being out on the field playing, no time to analyze you are all in the game, while the EARTH is like the front row seats, which is great, you can observe everything as a neutral party and enjoy, and the MOON is like sitting further up, where you get the feel for the game and the crowd. That's the best way I can explain this. So the MOON and EARTH while different have a similar sound but the SUN is totally different._

 

Denon5000,
 Thanks for the motivation, I haven't even started to burn in my Sun yet, 500 hrs on Earth and 400 hrs on the Moon so far, so its time. I have DIY Mark L modded D2000's so I hope I have a similar experience.

 I knew it wa the right decision to buy all three Hdams!

 Mark


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rx7mark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... I have DIY Mark L modded D2000's so I hope I have a similar experience...._

 

Mark,

 I'm getting ready to work on my Denon's, which of the MarkL mods did you do?


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denon5000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been listening to the Compass for quite sometime now and anyone who hasn't listened to the SUN HDAM in my opinion is missing something. Because according to me, there is such a fundamental difference in the sound between the SUN and EARTH / MOON that the experience of listening with the SUN HDAM cannot be experienced with the other two. I am talking about a fundamental difference in the way the sound is presented and felt. While the MOON & EARTH HDAM's allow you to listen to the music and appreciate the Compass for sounding so clear and good the SUN just pulls you in. It is only with the SUN HDAM I find that I want to keep on listening and not stop. With the other two the music is wonderful too but it does not have the effect of pulling you in completely as the SUN does. This at least is what I feel when listening with the Denon D5000. The difference between the SUN and the other two is that the SUN is like being out on the field playing, no time to analyze you are all in the game, while the EARTH is like the front row seats, which is great, you can observe everything as a neutral party and enjoy, and the MOON is like sitting further up, where you get the feel for the game and the crowd. That's the best way I can explain this. So the MOON and EARTH while different have a similar sound but the SUN is totally different._

 

I just sent an email off to Cherry and Kingwa asking to buy a Sun HDAM. Curse you!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just sent an email off to Cherry and Kingwa asking to buy a Sun HDAM. Curse you!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey I've been trying to tell you all since the Zero days... no one listens. Oh well


----------



## denon5000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zupa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is good to hear, I have a compass with all 3 HDAMs and a D7000 ordered. I'm curious did you burn in the Sun at all? What about the D5000 or compass?_

 

I got the D5000 a year ago so that is sufficiently burned in. Regarding the Compass I must have about 200 hrs on it and with the initial burn in that Kingwa must have done it is definitely not out of the box sound though it could do with more burn-in. As I mentioned at first I liked the Moon HDAM and listened with that on Soft2 while burning in the Compass. Much later I started listening and doing comparisons with the other HDAM's more out of curiosity as I did not expect my initial choice of Moon to change. But when I gave a listen to the SUN it changed the music experience so that is what I have right now in my Compass. As I said it is a completely different sound at least through the Denon's. I have a Koss Pro4AAAT (Open) headphone that I will try the HDAM's with to see if the same fundamental difference shows up. So the SUN might have only about 40 hrs on it though I cannot imagine that its sound would change so much as to be experienced in the same way as with the EARTH and MOON HDAM's.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denon5000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the D5000 a year ago so that is sufficiently burned in. Regarding the Compass I must have about 200 hrs on it and with the initial burn in that Kingwa must have done it is definitely not out of the box sound though it could do with more burn-in. As I mentioned at first I liked the Moon HDAM and listened with that on Soft2 while burning in the Compass. Much later I started listening and doing comparisons with the other HDAM's more out of curiosity as I did not expect my initial choice of Moon to change. But when I gave a listen to the SUN it changed the music experience so that is what I have right now in my Compass. As I said it is a completely different sound at least through the Denon's. I have a Koss Pro4AAAT (Open) headphone that I will try the HDAM's with to see if the same fundamental difference shows up. So the SUN might have only about 40 hrs on it though I cannot imagine that its sound would change so much as to be experienced in the same way as with the EARTH and MOON HDAM's._

 


 Thank for you adding that critical info......you are too early in the process to make a definitive call. The Compass is 1/2 the way through burn in, your sun module is 1/7 th the way through and the others are likely at 1/4 of the way or less.

 Trust me when I say this...things will change all over the place until you have 350 on each module and 600 on the Compass...your perceptions of SQ and what you like now will likely shift dramatically between now and when you are actually done with burn in....

 I'm sorry I'm not trying to be critical just helpful....these proclamations you profess have been heralded many a time before and when the time that needs to be put in came due (most of) the perceptions if members who liked the SUN the best (at first) did a 180 degree turn...

 Keep putting time on the modules and the Compass...you have a ways to go yet and the modules and the Compass will improve further in the meantime.

 You can listen while it happens ...your Sun module has about 24 hours to go before the bass just disappears for 50 hours or so...only to reappear at 125 hours...then the mids will recede and the highs will sound harsh for another 50 or so hours...I can go on but frankly I'm tired of writing it all out again...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway everything is good and on schedule just keep at it and stick with one combination for a while so you can take note of the changes that WILL occur.

 Peete.


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denaturat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now that may be true for HD650 and you having switched from the tubes, but IMHO, overall, it is the opposite. I think that Compass (Earth, neutral), while retaining the clarity and punch, is still on the mellower side of neutral sound._

 

I fully agree and personally I use Earth + Bright for my HD650.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey I've been trying to tell you all since the Zero days... no one listens. Oh well _

 

No offense Scottie ....I just wanted to clear up what we've seen many go through in the past (with the Zero) and then be somewhat perturbed at having spent money on a module they won't use or don't like.

 Like I said earlier I don't want to discourage sales of anything...just inform people of the circumstances and not to jump to conclusions with these modules or Audio-gd gear. Kingwa's stuff takes a long time to fully break in...that is the case for everything I've so far owned from Audio-gd...(that is an ever growing list of gear...what can I say I'm impressed with Kingwa's gear).

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

I'm listening to Ricki Lee Jones - "Ricki Lee Jones" from 1979. An old piece that maybe a lot of folks have never heard before, so thought I would mention it. I probably last heard it around 1985. Pretty well recorded and a very "interesting" album in an audiophile kind of way.

 Sounds very nice on the Compass. I can actually understand Ricki's Heroin encrusted Lyrics!

 .


----------



## denon5000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The SUN has a track record of being the most impressive module at first but once everything finally burns in the other modules are normally settled on (one or the other). Very few actually stay with the SUN.....it would help if denon5000 laid out source info, music genre and file type and quality and hours on both the SUN module and the Compass...that way if his gear is fully burned in we know he's making a statement about mature electronics and this stance will not change radically in 2 weeks time. I have no wish to discourage sales of modules but I do wish to save members some money if they find the SUN isn't much to to their liking and will resent post's like denon5000's because their experience will not match his......

 Please qualify your opinions please with pertinent info, hours on module and Compass...source, cabling etc...that helps greatly with making fully informed choices.


 Peete._

 

What I said about the SUN HDAM was my personal preference after hearing all three and why it was so and was within the context that the EARTH and MOON HDAMs have usually been recommended. Very few have recommended the SUN and the difference that I was finding between the SUN and the other two was too big to ignore. That is why I was specifically comparing the sound of the SUN with the other two HDAMs. I should have made this context a bit more clear. Having said that if I had to go back and order the Compass and HDAMs again I would still order all the three HDAMs. They are all very good and the ability to change the music easily by interchanging the three makes them well worth it. While I clearly like the SUN to listen to I can also say that the music presented by the EARTH HDAM is the most neutral and balanced and the EARTH presents the music correctly. So when you listen to the EARTH you can appreciate that and enjoy the music in the most natural way. However if you want the singer to get into your head and have the instruments working their magic all around you and get completely immersed in the music so much so that you forget about analysing all that stuff then the SUN definitely is it.

 Burn in on my Compass is about 200 hrs plus whatever Kingwa did before shipping it out. Most of the burn in is on the MOON with about 40hrs on the SUN. Power cable is the stock cable that came with the Compass. And the type of music I listen to is usually Pop. While I feel that more burn-in will make a difference I do not believe that it will change the unique characteristic of the SUN HDAM. Again this was with the Denon D5000 headphones and the difference in effect might not be so apparent with other headphones.


----------



## pete~

I would like to sell my compass. Is there anybody in the UK who would be interested? 

 The price is the same but the advantage is that there's less 'burn in' to do, no customs charge and quicker shipping.

 The compass dac simply was not the right product for my setup. It's in brand new condition, I've only had it a week or so.
 Let me know by PM.

 Thanks


----------



## Skorpitarius

I am very happy with my Compass thus far ... I am also tempted to buy the SUN and experience its sound because with the murky/veiled nature of the Senn. 650 'phones, i'm feeling like I want more detail and vibrance ... To the point of maybe selling my 650's and getting something more detailed and clear(and punchier in low end) ...
 Wondering if the SUN would clear this problem up or what ... True, my Compass is not burned in enough yet , according to all the posts on Head-Fi ... I still have many many hours to go on it , I guess ...
 I'm real curious to hear the Sony MDR-SA5000 headphones with this Compass ... I have a lower end pair of the Sony DJ series 'phones that sound GREAT/KILLER with the Compass and can imagine the higher end ones would be that much more vibrant and detailed on it ...
 I'm not able to sell yet on here but stay tuned, I may have my 650's for sale before long ...


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No offense Scottie ....I just wanted to clear up what we've seen many go through in the past (with the Zero) and then be somewhat perturbed at having spent money on a module they won't use or don't like.

 Like I said earlier I don't want to discourage sales of anything...just inform people of the circumstances and not to jump to conclusions with these modules or Audio-gd gear. Kingwa's stuff takes a long time to fully break in...that is the case for everything I've so far owned from Audio-gd...(that is an ever growing list of gear...what can I say I'm impressed with Kingwa's gear).

 Peete._

 

Nah none taken, was mostly kidding - but it seems everyone misses my pro-Sun posts - me being one of the only frequent Sun users (or so it seems). It definitely changes over time though - first impressions are that it is very exciting and 'dynamic' and almost everyone likes it. Not all seem to like where it ends up though.


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mark,

 I'm getting ready to work on my Denon's, which of the MarkL mods did you do?_

 

I did what Mark Lawton calls the partial mods. Here is the quote from Marks tutorial.

 "But what about the guy in the middle? You don't care about the bass bloat of the Denon's quite as much as I do, but you wouldn't mind a little tightening up. For you, I would suggest the following:

 1. Do the ear pad taper mod. This should be mandatory no matter what. It is totally reversible if you don't like it.
 2. Apply the circle of Dynamat (with center hole) to the smaller butt of the driver.
 3. Apply the layer of Dynamat to the inside of the ear cup.

 You will end up with a phone that is about half way between the overblown stock phone and the "perfectly balanced" full set of mods. It will still rattle your skull a bit, but you will experience a very solid degree of tightening. From this point, you can do some more critical listening and decide for yourself if you want to go any further or not."

 In addition there is a second layer of Dynamat that goes in a strip around the driver that I did, I just did not do the big round flat piece that you have to punch out all the holes in.

 Mark


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to sell my compass. Is there anybody in the UK who would be interested? 

 The price is the same but the advantage is that there's less 'burn in' to do, no customs charge and quicker shipping.

 The compass dac simply was not the right product for my setup. It's in brand new condition, I've only had it a week or so.
 Let me know by PM.

 Thanks_

 

You need to post an FS thread in the For Sale forum. Asking folks to buy your gear outside of the FS Forum is a sure fire way to get the Ban Hammer dropped on you.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rx7mark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did what Mark Lawton calls the partial mods. Here is the quote from Marks tutorial.

 "But what about the guy in the middle? You don't care about the bass bloat of the Denon's quite as much as I do, but you wouldn't mind a little tightening up. For you, I would suggest the following:

1. Do the ear pad taper mod. This should be mandatory no matter what. It is totally reversible if you don't like it.
2. Apply the circle of Dynamat (with center hole) to the smaller butt of the driver.
3. Apply the layer of Dynamat to the inside of the ear cup.

You will end up with a phone that is about half way between the overblown stock phone and the "perfectly balanced" full set of mods. It will still rattle your skull a bit, but you will experience a very solid degree of tightening. From this point, you can do some more critical listening and decide for yourself if you want to go any further or not."

 In addition there is a second layer of Dynamat that goes in a strip around the driver that I did, I just did not do the big round flat piece that you have to punch out all the holes in.

 Mark_

 

Thanks a lot Mark, I appreciate it...


----------



## Ganderson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No offense Scottie ....I just wanted to clear up what we've seen many go through in the past (with the Zero) and then be somewhat perturbed at having spent money on a module they won't use or don't like.

 Like I said earlier I don't want to discourage sales of anything...just inform people of the circumstances and not to jump to conclusions with these modules or Audio-gd gear. Kingwa's stuff takes a long time to fully break in...that is the case for everything I've so far owned from Audio-gd...(that is an ever growing list of gear...what can I say I'm impressed with Kingwa's gear).

 Peete._

 

Can you speculate as to why Kingwa's stuff requires such a long time to stabilize? I find it odd that there is such a dramatic and repeatable roller coaster like variation in sound for 600 hours.

 I am not saying I don't believe it, I just don't understand how it is possible.


----------



## doping panda

OK, been listening to the Compass DAC out to my Stax and still loving it. I have about ~190 hours on my Compass, the Earth HDAM, and Soft-2 in addition to the hundred or so hours from Kingwa. Either yesterday or Monday, there was a strong treble drop off. Sorry, I forgot the specifics but having two midterms and the excitement of last night's Laker game has obscured my memory. Back to the Compass. The Earth is sounding very much like how I remember it sounding when I first received it, but better in every way, most notably the amount of deep bass and bass punch. It's hard for me to comment about anything else since most of my recent listening is on a headphone with which I'm not completely familiar. I'm sorry, but it's too hard to take off my Lambdas. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S. This isn't completely Compass related, but anyone who says Stax don't have bass presence and punch are outright lying. My Lambda can output respectable amounts of bass if the recording demands it. It won't ever reach basshead territory, but I'm rather thankful for that. Also, the more I listen to them the more the place in my stable for my dynamics are threatened. Darn normal bias Lambda does so much right.


----------



## MysteryMachine

Will my earth get some bass with burn-in?

 Burned in moon for about 10 hrs on bright and love the nice smooth bass on it so far. I leave on vacation for 2 weeks so I put in the earth to burn it in(since I had the compass open to show to my coworkers - all were impressed with the build quality). The Moon had decent (not a lot though) of nice smooth bass. The new earth has almost no bass. I do like the crispness it brings to vocals but so far the bass is almost non-existant with earth. Peete (or others) will the bass get better on the earth with burn-in?


 Setup:

 X-Fi Titanium using ASIO, bit-matched, to foobar, no DSPs. Well worn HD580s (nearly every day for something like 8 yrs).


----------



## Baird GoW

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You need to post an FS thread in the For Sale forum. Asking folks to buy your gear outside of the FS Forum is a sure fire way to get the Ban Hammer dropped on you.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was just about to say that when I saw his post. Then I thought to myself maby there were some people who may have wanted him to learn the hard way.

 BTW PETE~ you never posted what they asked to you too even after they explained why that info is important. you still may want to consider posting all the info, someone may be able to help before you have to give up.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey I've been trying to tell you all since the Zero days... no one listens. Oh well _

 

I've said recently, and months ago, that I enjoyed the Sun hugely. It was my HDAM of choice in the Zero before I moved over to Stax - where it still sounded nice, but became fatiguing quickly, so I dropped over to the Earth.

 We all have different preferences, and they can change from month to month, source to source, can to can, or just our mood. The Sun is a bona-fide option to anyone, though it may sound harsh quite easily with open, detailed, or bright equipment.

 It never gained a huge amount of love on here, for a number of reasons. Most people with good gear are looking for a natural, balanced and honest replication of their music. The Sun, and the Moon, are both nowhere near this requirement. With much equipment, the recessed treble and thicker bass of the Moon is likely to appeal - and, I dare say, for a lot of people who keep hearing that valves are the only way upward in music reproduction, they'll be swept-in by the hope that they'll have a valve-like sound. Which they will, and they won't. And the Sun also has an extended degree of bass, but also with an extended degree of treble - valve-like, it ain't. But to find easy detail and have an overall enjoyable balance to the music, it may well be a find choice.

 The Moon and the Sun are both totally wrong. Yet both are totally right. It depends on the listener, their desires and expectations, and the gear they use. No model should be disregarded, as all are fine modules and all have some strong positives.

 The Earth has always been the safe, honest, and most natural choice, and IMO should always be the default choice for anyone who hasn't heard the others. But depending on the gear, musical tastes and preferences of the owner, either of the other modules could make a better choice.

 Happy listening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ganderson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you speculate as to why Kingwa's stuff requires such a long time to stabilize? I find it odd that there is such a dramatic and repeatable roller coaster like variation in sound for 600 hours.

 I am not saying I don't believe it, I just don't understand how it is possible._

 

I'm no expert, but we know for certain that the electrical properties of equipment changes with temperature. I imagine that the electrical properties of the components change with use as a result. I can say exactly the same thing happens if I leave my compass on with no music playing through it. The most distinct was the treble disappearing for a while between 250 and 300 hours. I was burning in all 3 HDAMs using my Zero as well, and all 3 had lost treble.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Baird GoW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was just about to say that when I saw his post. Then I thought to myself maby there were some people who may have wanted him to learn the hard way.

 BTW PETE~ you never posted what they asked to you too even after they explained why that info is important. you still may want to consider posting all the info, someone may be able to help before you have to give up._

 

I don't think this is worth pursuing. If he wanted to post the info, he would have posted it by now. Hopefully he's learned something worthwhile from all that has happened.


----------



## Doorknob

Having had the Compass for quite a while now and switching between a couple settings I think I have found what's the best setting for me via Foobar. By putting in nothing at all. No ASIO, no DSPs, nothing that alters the sound. This is on neutral setting with the Earth on.

 Odd as it sounds yes I don't like what ASIO does to my music with the Compass. When not doing ASIO, the bass impact and depth increases, much more non fatiguing, and does wonders to soundstaging. Most of the music I've used for this included were mainly instrumental music following with piano, jazz, jazz fusion, progressive jazz fusion, progressive fusion, progressive guitar fusion, progressive rock, progressive rock fusion, and, well, pretty much anything that sounds exciting without vocals but does not have the same sound throughout the song.

 Oh, and did I mention the soundstage is incredibly amazing?


----------



## cyberidd

Decided my earlier comment was inappropriate and therefore deleted.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Doorknob move over to Media Monkey and use the steinberg ASIO driver (octachan or something like that). The bass and fullness returns...Foobar and ASIO are goofed up for some reason.

 Try it you'll notice an improvement right away. mbd found this out sometime back in this thread.

 Peete.

 PS The burn in debate...sigh....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ganderson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you speculate as to why Kingwa's stuff requires such a long time to stabilize? I find it odd that there is such a dramatic and repeatable roller coaster like variation in sound for 600 hours.

 I am not saying I don't believe it, I just don't understand how it is possible._

 

I can't explain it fully but I do acknowledge it. Might have to do with all the transistors used, the sheer part count and the level of overbuild. The NoVer caps take a good while to relax (like Black Gates).

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MysteryMachine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will my earth get some bass with burn-in?

 Burned in moon for about 10 hrs on bright and love the nice smooth bass on it so far. I leave on vacation for 2 weeks so I put in the earth to burn it in(since I had the compass open to show to my coworkers - all were impressed with the build quality). The Moon had decent (not a lot though) of nice smooth bass. The new earth has almost no bass. I do like the crispness it brings to vocals but so far the bass is almost non-existant with earth. Peete (or others) will the bass get better on the earth with burn-in?


 Setup:

 X-Fi Titanium using ASIO, bit-matched, to foobar, no DSPs. Well worn HD580s (nearly every day for something like 8 yrs)._

 


 Once the Earth is done maturing it actually has more usable bass than the the Moon but it will not have the mid bass hump the Moon module has. The Earth has more bass extension than the Moon.

 Try Media Monkey/ASIO rather than Foobar...unless your running an older rev of Foobar your not getting as good a SQ as you should be getting. See my post to doorknob earlier this evening and look for mbd's posts on this subject in this thread. The difference is not subtle at all. I haven't gone back to Foobar even though I like the GUI on foobar much better than MM.


----------



## Bostonears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can actually understand Ricki's Heroin encrusted Lyrics!_

 

Soon, people will be claiming to comprehend the lyrics to Bob Dylan's "All Along The Watchtower"


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bostonears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Soon, people will be claiming to comprehend the lyrics to Bob Dylan's "All Along The Watchtower" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I do believe that has already happened although which Dylan song it was escapes my leaky memory for the moment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## haloxt

MM sounds better than any foobar I tried, but I personally still use the older foobar and the recommended build for the lean sound because my setup has too much bass. If you like music that goes hippity hoppity (I don't know, bill cosby made that phrase up) directsound offers something towards that direction that no asio possibly can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Zhirc

Sorry for OT: Tested quickly Compass with otachan's ASIO-plugin with MediaMonkey and indeed, it sounded a bit better for my ears too. BUT, unless I can't get gapless playback, I'm going to go back to using foobar.

 Am I just a noob or is there really no way to to get proper gapless playback with MediaMonkey when using ASIO(4ALL) output? Gapless-mode in ASIO output -settings didn't do anything. Googled a bit and I couldn't find an answer...


----------



## karthur

I just received my compass but there seems to be something wrong. The right-side volume is at max when the volume knob is all the way down, turning up the volume does nothing to the right-side but increases the left as normal. What could be wrong?

 BTW almost blew my eardrum out...I'm really disappointed after waiting all this time and to have this as a problem!! 

 Edit: I fixed it! the left front (if looking straight on the front of the unit) leg of the alps potentiometer was not soldered!! there was solder there but the leg not connected.


----------



## haloxt

I'm using v0.67, but I go to tools>options>output plug-ins>click Configure highlighting ASIO output>check "gapless mode".

 If you can, I'd also follow mbd2884's suggestion to use usb-asio. I can't get it to work though Vista sucks -_-.

 edot: forget this post it doesn't make it gapless 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## punk_guy182

i have a noticeable and verry annoying low hum with compass in preamp mode. Has anyone else experienced that?


----------



## Ganderson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm no expert, but we know for certain that the electrical properties of equipment changes with temperature. I imagine that the electrical properties of the components change with use as a result. I can say exactly the same thing happens if I leave my compass on with no music playing through it. The most distinct was the treble disappearing for a while between 250 and 300 hours. I was burning in all 3 HDAMs using my Zero as well, and all 3 had lost treble._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't explain it fully but I do acknowledge it. Might have to do with all the transistors used, the sheer part count and the level of overbuild. The NoVer caps take a good while to relax (like Black Gates).

 Peete._

 

Thanks for the replies guys. Not trying to start a debate as I'm sure there is some science behind it... too much consensus to be a group psychoacoustic phenomenon. I'm interested to see if I hear what you guys are describing.


----------



## Ganderson

Oh... and my Compass arrived yesterday and I picked it up at the post office this morning! I ordered on 5/5 and here is the data for those interested in how fast EMS is:

 Shipment Activity Location Date & Time
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Delivered ROUND ROCK TX 78664 05/21/09 8:02am

 Notice Left ROUND ROCK TX 78664 05/20/09 12:55pm

 Arrival at Unit ROUND ROCK TX 78664 05/20/09 7:50am

 Processed through Sort Facility AUSTIN TX 78710 05/19/09
 6:22am
 Processed through Sort 

 Inbound Into Customs UNITED STATES 05/18/09 10:46am

 Inbound International Arrival ISC SAN FRANCISCO (USPS) 05/18/09
 10:45am
 Inbound International 

 Inbound Out of Customs UNITED STATES 05/18/09 10:44am

 Foreign International Dispatch CHINA PEOPLES REP 05/14/09 
 9:26pm
 Foreign International 

 Origin Post is Preparing Shipment CHINA PEOPLES REP 
 05/14/09 7:05pm
 Origin Post is 

 Foreign Acceptance 05/14/09 4:41pm



 Everything looks to be in great shape but I won't be able to plug it in until tonight.


----------



## samspotting

How do you burn in a dac? do you need it to be plugged into a source? Does the source have to be pumping music?

 The headphone slot is 1.4 inches and no 3.5mm right?


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *samspotting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you burn in a dac? do you need it to be plugged into a source? Does the source have to be pumping music?_

 



 You need to load the system with a headphone or speakers and be pumping either music or Pink noise! I created a special WAV file for 9 min of pink noise and 1 min rest then repeat 6 times for a one hour file. Then Media monkey will keep track of how many times this plays so I know my total burn in except time spent listening.

 There was a little tutorial on this thread, post # 4036 by TinselJim, I used which was extremely helpful to create the file. Thanks Jim!

 The pause is to give the drivers time to cool, there have been some people who have burnt out headphones doing there burn in.

 Hope this helps.

 Mark


----------



## DisgruntledVirus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ganderson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh... and my Compass arrived yesterday and I picked it up at the post office this morning! I ordered on 5/5 and here is the data for those interested in how fast EMS is:

 Shipment Activity Location Date & Time
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Delivered ROUND ROCK TX 78664 05/21/09 8:02am

 Notice Left ROUND ROCK TX 78664 05/20/09 12:55pm

 Arrival at Unit ROUND ROCK TX 78664 05/20/09 7:50am

 Processed through Sort Facility AUSTIN TX 78710 05/19/09
 6:22am
 Processed through Sort 

 Inbound Into Customs UNITED STATES 05/18/09 10:46am

 Inbound International Arrival ISC SAN FRANCISCO (USPS) 05/18/09
 10:45am
 Inbound International 

 Inbound Out of Customs UNITED STATES 05/18/09 10:44am

 Foreign International Dispatch CHINA PEOPLES REP 05/14/09 
 9:26pm
 Foreign International 

 Origin Post is Preparing Shipment CHINA PEOPLES REP 
 05/14/09 7:05pm
 Origin Post is 

 Foreign Acceptance 05/14/09 4:41pm



 Everything looks to be in great shape but I won't be able to plug it in until tonight._

 

Surprisingly fast shipping IMO for international (maybe it's the norm, but I rarely order from overseas), when did you place the order?


----------



## Muji

Recently exchanged the earth with the sun on my compass. I'm getting distortion only from the right side. Is this normal? Will it go away after burn-in?


----------



## Ganderson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DisgruntledVirus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Surprisingly fast shipping IMO for international (maybe it's the norm, but I rarely order from overseas), when did you place the order?_

 

As I stated in my post, I ordered on 5/5... faster turnaround than I expected!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Muji* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Recently exchanged the earth with the sun on my compass. I'm getting distortion only from the right side. Is this normal? Will it go away after burn-in?_

 

That is not normal. You didn't have this distortion with the other HDAM?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Muji* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Recently exchanged the earth with the sun on my compass. I'm getting distortion only from the right side. Is this normal? Will it go away after burn-in?_

 

Mine is in the L channel as soon as I switched after burning in the Earth and Moon. There seems to be a high failure rate for the SUN modules. Kingwa will send another one to you, no questions asked. Something with the SUN modules are an issue that results in significantly higher failure rates compared to Earth and Moon. Drop Kingwa an Email.

 .


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is in the L channel as soon as I switched after burning in the Earth and Moon. There seems to be a high failure rate for the SUN modules. Kingwa will send another one to you, no questions asked. Something with the SUN modules are an issue that results in significantly higher failure rates compared to Earth and Moon. Drop Kingwa an Email.

 ._

 

Thanks for the info Les. I just ordered one yesterday. Hopefully it works OK, but if not, at least I'll know the problems are somewhat common. It's good to keep expectations low.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the info Les. I just ordered one yesterday. Hopefully it works OK, but if not, at least I'll know the problems are somewhat common. It's good to keep expectations low.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Only reason why I say this is because the SUN HDAMs are the only one's I've seen this issue with. Never seen a trend with the Earth and Moon. It's interesting that someone recently got a SUN wirth no LEDs I thought. Wonder if it is a Diode supply issue.

 .


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ganderson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the replies guys. Not trying to start a debate as I'm sure there is some science behind it... too much consensus to be a group psychoacoustic phenomenon. I'm interested to see if I hear what you guys are describing._

 

I was a sceptic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/aud...ml#post5362872

 ~Phewl.


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only reason why I say this is because the SUN HDAMs are the only one's I've seen this issue with. Never seen a trend with the Earth and Moon. It's interesting that someone recently got a SUN wirth no LEDs I thought. Wonder if it is a Diode supply issue.

 ._

 

Yeah, I was one of the people that received a Sun w/ no LED. I've been cooking it all week, it's functioning well...


----------



## thingfisher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ganderson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh... and my Compass arrived yesterday and I picked it up at the post office this morning! I ordered on 5/5 and here is the data for those interested in how fast EMS is:


 . . . . . 


 Everything looks to be in great shape but I won't be able to plug it in until tonight._

 


 I had the same experience. Ordered mine on 5/5, and it was delivered by DHL to my office this morning. I wasn't here to accept it, but the box looks like it is in good shape. I didn't shake the box to see if anything was loose as Kingwa recommends on his website, but everything seemed pretty solid.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bostonears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Soon, people will be claiming to comprehend the lyrics to Bob Dylan's "All Along The Watchtower" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That song has lyrics????


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That song has lyrics???? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah exactly, the Compass renders the Drunkin slurs perfectly!

 .


----------



## haloxt

I asked paypal twice and got bad answers and then tried asking audio-gd but I think they misunderstood my question. Will audio-gd be charged more if I used credit card+paypal VERSUS bank balance+paypal? I had internet down and ordered from a library after my vacation so I rushed and accidentally did credit card but am afraid it would charge audio-gd extra fees, would like to know if I should send payment again directly from bank+paypal and have them refund my payment by credit+paypal?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked paypal twice and got bad answers and then tried asking audio-gd but I think they misunderstood my question. Will audio-gd be charged more if I used credit card+paypal VERSUS bank balance+paypal? I had internet down and ordered from a library after my vacation so I rushed and accidentally did credit card but am afraid it would charge audio-gd extra fees, would like to know if I should send payment again directly from bank+paypal and have them refund my payment by credit+paypal?_

 

Contact Audio-gd and ask them if you paid the right amount. From memory you have to add the paypal fees % to the total when you pay them.


----------



## haloxt

Yes, I was just wondering if paypal charges extra if I do credit card+paypal vs. debit+paypal. For example, maybe 3% PLUS 4% fee with credit+paypal, but only 4% with debit+paypal. But I guess it's pointless to ask now since I already sent the payment and I'm not sure it can be refunded so forget about it ^^ even paypal couldn't give me a right answer.


----------



## obentou

I paid like $60 CAD from my PP balance and the rest with my credit card. Everything went fine!


----------



## haloxt

nono, I mean using credit card or debit card to FUND the paypal payment lol. But forget it I don't think it'll be a problem at all.


----------



## Muji

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is not normal. You didn't have this distortion with the other HDAM?_

 

Nope, the earth HDAM worked fine and I'm very pleased with how it sounds.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is in the L channel as soon as I switched after burning in the Earth and Moon. There seems to be a high failure rate for the SUN modules. Kingwa will send another one to you, no questions asked. Something with the SUN modules are an issue that results in significantly higher failure rates compared to Earth and Moon. Drop Kingwa an Email._

 

Since I'm so pleased with the earth HDAM I don't think I will use the sun HDAM anyway so it would end up collecting dust somewhere. I just don't think it's worth their time and money. I might ask if and how I could repair it myself though.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 nono, I mean using credit card or debit card to FUND the paypal payment lol. But forget it I don't think it'll be a problem at all._

 

It's not a problem because Audio-gd has a premium paypal account and they get charged a certain % whether the source of the payment is a person's CC or bank account. This is why Audio-gd charges the extra 4% for Paypal...to cover these fees.


----------



## haloxt

Whew that's what I needed to know, was confusing ty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## DisgruntledVirus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whew that's what I needed to know, was confusing ty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Email them asking for a quote with using paypal.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whew that's what I needed to know, was confusing ty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Are you surprised??.. Ecclesand's avataar is the coolest and wisest looking thing I have ever seen in my life !!..


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you surprised??.. Ecclesand's avataar is the coolest and wisest looking thing I have ever seen in my life !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

HAHAHA....that's actually me. I'm not much to look at, but I'm hell at climbing trees!


----------



## Ganderson

Just wanted to share my initial experience with my new Compass.

 Let me preface by saying that I am new to this head-fi stuff and though my setup has been evolving over the last few months as a work in progress, I don't have a vast frame of reference with a wide variety of gear at this point.

 My amps up to this point have gone from DIY CMOY to DIY Grado RA1 Clone, (both battery powered) to the Compass.

 Phones I've gone through: Grado SR80, SR225, Senn HD595 and for now settled on my Denon D2000 which I have recently "Markl" modded and recabled with Cryoparts TWcu wire from Craig at Whiplash.

 My source has been my trusty 32GB iPod Touch 2G via LOD.

 My Compass and extra Moon OPA arrived from China in perfect condition. It was very well packed and the box showed no signs of mishandling... and the shake-test revealed nothing loose inside.

 Unboxing revealed a product that exceeded my expectations in appearance and build quality. I have seen all of the pictures and read the testimonies but in person you realize that it really is a well made and elegant looking unit with a clean, industrial design... plus it's just "more black" in person. As a frame of reference for my opinion on the build, I work for a high end intelligent lighting manufaturer as head of the Manufaturing Engineering Dept. so I am very familiar with manufacturing practices. Anyway... it's built like a tank and looks great as others have said.

 Removing the top cover revealing the internals gave me the warm fuzzy feeling that I had purchased a product from a company who takes pride in it's work and knows what they are doing. It may be a superficial observation, but the clean layout of the wiring and quality of the solder joints inside really inspires confidence in the product from a build qualiy perspective. Whether built in China or the USA, a mell made product is a well made product.

 After having a look around, I removed the foam from the OPA section (yes, it does leave a nasty residue which I will remove at some point). For my initial listening I set the jumpers to the "neutral" setting, the gain to "low" for my Denons, "Super" button pressed in and connected my iPod LOD cable to the line-in on the Compass.

 Comfortable volume was produced at around 10 or 11 o'clock on the Compass volume dial. I listened for around 3 hours last night and my initial quick impressions of the amp section vs. what I've been using are: deeper bass extension, more full and lush mids and more extension in the highs (getting a little silibant on some songs). Soundstaging has also improved on the Denons in both width and depth and is basically more 3D. As an amp the Compass is definitely a significant step up for me, but it's so new that I'm going to give it a lot more time to burn in before getting too critical and analytical. The Compass has also revealed to me that the bottleneck in my setup at this point is my iPod as my source... but I knew this would happen and it's one of the reasons I chose the compass... to take advantade of it's DAC section with a better source.

 So that is what is coming next for me, probably in the form of an Apple TV or Mac Mini based music server feeding the Compass DAC and controlled remotely by my iPod Touch. At that point I will get to see what the DAC can do, but for now I will just enjoy the iPod through the Compass amp.


----------



## haloxt

I contacted usb-audio to try to get advice on making it work with Vista. They recommended I get 2.8.15, older than the current 2.8.7 and after just ~10 crashes I got it to work with no more complications. Will do tests now yey.


----------



## Jackbush

since this is targeted for more beginners, 24/96 support probably isn't a big priority (unless it doesn't add much to the cost). If it adds a significant amount to the cost it's probably better to leave it out.


----------



## haloxt

My goodness, usb-audio has cannibalized my asio4all, it plays but it keeps clicking now. I guess I won't be comparing usb-audio vs asio4all after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 luckily after an hour of comparisons I feel certain it's superior to asio4all, maybe better than my cd player, and it apparently makes the once-big difference between different media players smaller. Later I will test the dreaded "latest foobar asio to see if it might sound closer to the other asio's.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My goodness, usb-audio has cannibalized my asio4all, it plays but it keeps clicking now. I guess I won't be comparing usb-audio vs asio4all after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 luckily after an hour of comparisons I feel certain it's superior to asio4all, maybe better than my cd player, and it apparently makes the once-big difference between different media players smaller. Later I will test the dreaded "latest foobar asio to see if it might sound closer to the other asio's._

 

Does the USB ASIO work with various media players? I primarily use Itunes right now, but sometimes use foobar, and have been considering moving to Media Monkey, so it would be nice if ASIO worked with all of them.


----------



## iTetragrammaton

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have a noticeable and verry annoying low hum with compass in preamp mode. Has anyone else experienced that?_

 

Unfortunately yes. My Compass is connected to Swans M200mkiii active speakers. When using pre out I get the hum when the volume on the Swans is 25% or higher. When using DAC out (with the Super button pressed in) there is absolutely no hum or hiss, even at 100% on the speakers.

 So instead of using the preamp on the Compass, I now use the volume control on the speakers - UNLESS there is a fix? I've checked all cables etc., no problems there.

 If anyone has contacted Kingwa on this, please inform us of the response. Otherwise I'll do it myself.


----------



## Skorpitarius

I cannot get ASIO to do anything . I have a year old HP pc with the stock sound card in it. I have Winamp playing via "directsound" for headphones and speakers .
 I download the ASIO4ALL and it wouldn't do anything . Downloaded the proper usb-audio ASIO and parts of the interface window are greyed out, doesn't wanna do anything . Yeah, i'm a newbie to ASIO/tweaking computer audio but shrug, dunno .
 Sounds great tho as is but hope to decipher this ASIO voodoo ...


----------



## Shoreman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skorpitarius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I cannot get ASIO to do anything . I have a year old HP pc with the stock sound card in it. I have Winamp playing via "directsound" for headphones and speakers .
 I download the ASIO4ALL and it wouldn't do anything . Downloaded the proper usb-audio ASIO and parts of the interface window are greyed out, doesn't wanna do anything . Yeah, i'm a newbie to ASIO/tweaking computer audio but shrug, dunno .
 Sounds great tho as is but hope to decipher this ASIO voodoo ..._

 

This should help:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/as...nation-221237/


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iTetragrammaton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unfortunately yes. My Compass is connected to Swans M200mkiii active speakers. When using pre out I get the hum when the volume on the Swans is 25% or higher. When using DAC out (with the Super button pressed in) there is absolutely no hum or hiss, even at 100% on the speakers.

 So instead of using the preamp on the Compass, I now use the volume control on the speakers - UNLESS there is a fix? I've checked all cables etc., no problems there.

 If anyone has contacted Kingwa on this, please inform us of the response. Otherwise I'll do it myself._

 

This is one of the reasons why I don't use the preamp on the Compass. I know others have said it was very good, but I don't think it is. The DAC OUT on the compass provides better sound quality to my ears. So much so that it was worth it to me to get a passive volume controller for my speakers because the volume knob is on the back of the powered speaker.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the USB ASIO work with various media players? I primarily use Itunes right now, but sometimes use foobar, and have been considering moving to Media Monkey, so it would be nice if ASIO worked with all of them._

 

It works with mediamonkey, foobar, and windows media player (surprised at that lol), so it should work with ANYTHING that has ASIO support. In order to get iTunes to have ASIO support requires something like this ASIO Output with iTunes -- Multi-Plugin --

 I don't feel like using iTunes so I can't help you more. Good luck.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is one of the reasons why I don't use the preamp on the Compass. I know others have said it was very good, but I don't think it is. The DAC OUT on the compass provides better sound quality to my ears. So much so that it was worth it to me to get a passive volume controller for my speakers because the volume knob is on the back of the powered speaker._

 

I would go with how you're doing it. Why use 2 Pre-amps in series? That's what you are doing if you use the Compass Pre-Outs.

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iTetragrammaton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unfortunately yes. My Compass is connected to Swans M200mkiii active speakers. When using pre out I get the hum when the volume on the Swans is 25% or higher. When using DAC out (with the Super button pressed in) there is absolutely no hum or hiss, even at 100% on the speakers.

 So instead of using the preamp on the Compass, I now use the volume control on the speakers - UNLESS there is a fix? I've checked all cables etc., no problems there.

 If anyone has contacted Kingwa on this, please inform us of the response. Otherwise I'll do it myself._

 

You have a ground loop. Try plugging everything into the same power strip and outlet. 

 Peete.


----------



## bschray

I have been reading extensively on this forum trying to break in to headphones and associated equipment from scratch. I am posting now for those who are interested in the degree of penetration of this collaboration between the forum and Audio-gd for the entry-level high end equipment. After researching on this forum for several weeks I purchased AKG K01 and the compass for audio-gd. It arrived yesterday in good condition (the package had been opened and resealed, U.S. customs I guess although they did not charge me anything). All three inputs work and I am burning in now on soft-2 and earth HDAM. I bought the sun and moon also. I have not tried those HDAMs yet but may try the sun soon due to issues reported of early failure.

 I would like to take a moment to thank those on this forum who initiated this project and Kingwa for being so open to design input. Kudos to all involved in this surprisingly successful project.

 Here was the timeline of my experience with audio-gd:

 Date
 05/03/09Request Pricing
 05/05/09PayPal Payment Received
 05/17/09DHL Shipping Notification to USA east coast
 05/21/09Compass received

 I have had no problems so far with the compass and am pleased with the sound at this early point. 

 I have had no success getting Kernel Streaming working from Foobar2K or Media Monkey from my laptop through USB so far. I have also had no success getting Otachan's ASIO .67(dll) working in either environment.

 I tried the trial version of the Ploytec GmbH / usb-audio.de which appeared to work extremely well but it is hard to be sure with that annoying beat every 30 seconds. It seemed during the short time I tried it that I could not get any other type of sound working until I uninstalled it. I plan to try it again a little more rigorously.

 I did run across an ASIO driver (I think it is a driver and not a software emulation ala ASIO4ALL) that I had not seen mentioned on this forum at ASIO2KS - Generic ASIO driver for WDM soundcards.. This is a freeware driver which worked fine on Media Monkey but I could not get it working on Foobar. One good point was I could get other types of connections working to the compass while this is installed. It allows me to A/B compare between Foobar2K using DS: USB Audio DAC and Media Monkey using ASIO Kernel-Streaming driver to the compass for particular passages in a song. My laptop is sounding really good with this driver although it is a beta version and may have stability problems.


----------



## iTetragrammaton

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have a ground loop. Try plugging everything into the same power strip and outlet. 

 Peete._

 

Thanks, but that's already done from the beginning.

 EDIT: Preamp switch OFF - no hum. Preamp switch ON - hum.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Are you double amping the signal like Les suggested to another poster ? Do the Swan's expect a line level input (which is why it's fine with DAC line out) ? That might be the problem....do you have a preamp input on the Swan's ? My original response assumed you had already bypassed the internal preamp. 

 Peete.

 EDIT: I'll go have a look at the Swan's site and see if I can give you an answer. 

 EDIT # 2: The site is next to useless...no back panel shot of the Master (panel). Could you post a pic of the master panel please on the back of the M200. I'll be able to tell you really quick if it has a preamp bypass on that panel. Basically you want to bypass the preamp in the Swans M200's and just use the amp sections (that includes losing the on board Vol & bass/treble controls which are a part of of the built in pre function) with the Compass preamp section. It's possible these speakers are only meant to be used with a line level out. I'll know soon enough with the pic.


----------



## Skorpitarius

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shoreman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This should help:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/as...nation-221237/_

 


 Hey , thanks , I got that to work ... the green play arrow icon is down there .
 So, this is emulation of real ASIO ? Makes me wonder what the real thing sounds like ...not sure I wanna spend $60 on it if it's not a marked improvement over this ?

 thanks again


----------



## Currawong

FYI, Pete's good experience with the Compass as a pre-amp was with high-end hi-fi gear. Active speakers are a totally different thing.


----------



## tumbleweed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ganderson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Compass has also revealed to me that the bottleneck in my setup at this point is my iPod as my source... but I knew this would happen and it's one of the reasons I chose the compass... to take advantade of it's DAC section with a better source.

 So that is what is coming next for me, probably in the form of an Apple TV or Mac Mini based music server feeding the Compass DAC and controlled remotely by my iPod Touch. At that point I will get to see what the DAC can do, but for now I will just enjoy the iPod through the Compass amp._

 

Same boat, but instead of a Mac Mini I ended up just getting Apple Airport Express and stream wirelessly from my desktop. $100, bit-perfect music anywhere in wifi range, even apple lossless. I also don't have to worry about keeping two music libraries in sync. The Airport outputs digital optical straight into the Compass DAC (with a cheap mini/optical adapter) which is how I'm feeding mine right now.


----------



## Ganderson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tumbleweed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same boat, but instead of a Mac Mini I ended up just getting Apple Airport Express and stream wirelessly from my desktop. $100, bit-perfect music anywhere in wifi range, even apple lossless. I also don't have to worry about keeping two music libraries in sync. The Airport outputs digital optical straight into the Compass DAC (with a cheap mini/optical adapter) which is how I'm feeding mine right now. 




_

 

Another great option there!

 If my iTunes library was on a pc here at the house I would consider the AE for sure but since it resides on my work computer I think I want a standalone monitorless solution. I keep going back and forth between ATV and the mini though.. They both have their advantages.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Anyone have the Wadia 170i (with digital out) and tried it with the Compass ? I'm thinking this combo will be a great solution for the Cottage rather than lugging up a CDP and a pile of CD/CDR's....

 The second question is how easy is it to hack the Ipod classic (160 gig) O/S so it will play back FLAC files (or does it already) ? I'm an Apple products noob precisely because of the LOD being strictly analog up until the 170i arrived...now it's a viable choice.

 I really don't feel like recoding 150 gigs worth of files if I can help it.

 Thanks for any info 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 EDIT: Thanks Les 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cool...dual boot IPOD...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have the Wadia 170i (with digital out) and tried it with the Compass ? I'm thinking this combo will be a great solution for the Cottage rather than lugging up a CDP and a pile of CD/CDR's....

 The second question is how easy is it to hack the Ipod classic (160 gig) O/S so it will play back FLAC files (or does it already) ? I'm an Apple products noob precisely because of the LOD being strictly analog up until the 170i arrived...now it's a viable choice.

 I really don't feel like recoding 150 gigs worth of files if I can help it.

 Thanks for any info 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Video: Free your iPod to play OGG and FLAC - Soa - Video-Free-your-iPod-to-play-OGG-and-FLAC - AppleSource

 This is a Dual Boot Debian system

 .
 .


----------



## Dankerz

Peete!

 Is there a part 3 to your epic review coming? Did I miss it?


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have the Wadia 170i (with digital out) and tried it with the Compass ? I'm thinking this combo will be a great solution for the Cottage rather than lugging up a CDP and a pile of CD/CDR's....

 The second question is how easy is it to hack the Ipod classic (160 gig) O/S so it will play back FLAC files (or does it already) ? I'm an Apple products noob precisely because of the LOD being strictly analog up until the 170i arrived...now it's a viable choice.

 I really don't feel like recoding 150 gigs worth of files if I can help it.

 Thanks for any info 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 EDIT: Thanks Les 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cool...dual boot IPOD..._

 

I believe the 160 iPOD is 6TH generation. Mine is. If that's the case. you can't Rockboxit yet


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe the 160 iPOD is 6TH generation. Mine is. If that's the case. you can't Rockboxit yet_

 

Hmmm, didn't notice that was what he had, bummer....

 .


----------



## nkk

Which shipping method is better? I am debating the Compass, and will probably buy before the price increase. However, the shipping difference is $5, so I do not care which I select. Does one have a reputation (excluding baggers, since that seems to be a one shot deal from what I read) for being better?

 Thanks,
 Nkk


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you double amping the signal like Les suggested to another poster ? Do the Swan's expect a line level input (which is why it's fine with DAC line out) ? That might be the problem....do you have a preamp input on the Swan's ? My original response assumed you had already bypassed the internal preamp. 

 Peete.

 EDIT: I'll go have a look at the Swan's site and see if I can give you an answer. 

 EDIT # 2: The site is next to useless...no back panel shot of the Master (panel). Could you post a pic of the master panel please on the back of the M200. I'll be able to tell you really quick if it has a preamp bypass on that panel. Basically you want to bypass the preamp in the Swans M200's and just use the amp sections (that includes losing the on board Vol & bass/treble controls which are a part of of the built in pre function) with the Compass preamp section. It's possible these speakers are only meant to be used with a line level out. I'll know soon enough with the pic._

 

You are correct Peete, I have a pair of Swans M200 MKII in my PC setup.

 Initially when I bought the Compass, I tried connecting it using Compass as Preamp (and my old HK amp which had preamp in) and there was a hum, which wasn't the case when I connected my CDM1 or Kappa200, so I have a reason to believe it wasn't bypassing the preamp of the Swans speakers. 

 Following which I scooped out everything inside the Swans and damped it well (the hum was gone..), I must say it was pretty crappy quality amp and preamp, but the drivers and enclosure is really good (moded the crossover though), I say that because I have heard a lot of speakers and these speakers really sing when used as passive speakers.

 I am attaching the picture of the rear of the speakers (sorry for the poor quality, it was taken this morning with my mobile phone plus the preamp board)


----------



## iTetragrammaton

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you double amping the signal like Les suggested to another poster ? Do the Swan's expect a line level input (which is why it's fine with DAC line out) ?_

 

Yes to both questions. Either I'll find a way to bypass the preamp in the Swans, or I'll just use the onboard pre with Compass' DAC out. Here's a pic from The Google 

http://www.xue163.com/uploadzl/ce2YNJ12JwOQE.jpg


----------



## darkhalo

My Compass modded with an acrylic case top. It gets a little warm around the HDAM, but I think it should be ok. I never leave it on unattended anyways.

 This was Starguard's idea (thanks Starguard).







 With the flash it just disappears.


----------



## sandchak

Lovely.. looks really great !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let us know how it goes, I mean does it get it get too warm.. think I'll try it myself, maybe with a slightly gray acrylic.. Thanks !


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe the 160 iPOD is 6TH generation. Mine is. If that's the case. you can't Rockboxit yet_

 

That figures.

*Dankerz:* It'll be posted sometime soon. I've had to wait for a long while due to some unforeseen circumstances. I'm sorry for the lengthy delay.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iTetragrammaton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes to both questions. Either I'll find a way to bypass the preamp in the Swans, or I'll just use the onboard pre with Compass' DAC out. Here's a pic from The Google 

http://www.xue163.com/uploadzl/ce2YNJ12JwOQE.jpg_

 

I'm afraid to say your stuck using line level source signals for these speakers. It's too bad because the Compass preamp is really good.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are correct Peete, I have a pair of Swans M200 MKII in my PC setup.

 Initially when I bought the Compass, I tried connecting it using Compass as Preamp (and my old HK amp which had preamp in) and there was a hum, which wasn't the case when I connected my CDM1 or Kappa200, so I have a reason to believe it wasn't bypassing the preamp of the Swans speakers. 

 Following which I scooped out everything inside the Swans and damped it well (the hum was gone..), I must say it was pretty crappy quality amp and preamp, but the drivers and enclosure is really good (moded the crossover though), I say that because I have heard a lot of speakers and these speakers really sing when used as passive speakers.

 I am attaching the picture of the rear of the speakers (sorry for the poor quality, it was taken this morning with my mobile phone plus the preamp board)_

 


 Ye gods....your right Sandchak..better to scrap the inards and go passive.

 Peete.


----------



## Dankerz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That figures.

*Dankerz:* It'll be posted sometime soon. I've had to wait for a long while due to some unforeseen circumstances. I'm sorry for the lengthy delay.

 Peete._

 


 You have absolutely NO NEED to apologize. You are doing us all a favor and we appreciate it!


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkhalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Compass modded with an acrylic case top...._

 

Nice work Darkhalo, looks very cool...


----------



## Skorpitarius

I have had my Compass for week or so and am very happy with it (especially after getting true ASIO to work in headphones mode via Winamp/Media Monkey )

 Now, ... I am shopping for powered monitors + subwoofer (i enjoy speakers almost as much as headphones)

 KRK's are looking sexy as are Alesis and TSC that someone posted a link to ..

 Kinda hard to utilize the Compass when friends are here and i'm entertaining ... gotta get some better speakers/sub than the cheapy Insignia(Best Buy house brand) speakers/sub combo(pretty good for the money but I want higher-fi than what they can dish out


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skorpitarius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have had my Compass for week or so and am very happy with it (especially after getting true ASIO to work in headphones mode via Winamp/Media Monkey )

 Now, ... I am shopping for powered monitors + subwoofer (i enjoy speakers almost as much as headphones)

 KRK's are looking sexy as are Alesis and TSC that someone posted a link to ..

 Kinda hard to utilize the Compass when friends are here and i'm entertaining ... gotta get some better speakers/sub than the cheapy Insignia(Best Buy house brand) speakers/sub combo(pretty good for the money but I want higher-fi than what they can dish out_

 

Here's what I have and am VERY happy with them

 JBL LSR4328P + JBL LSR4312SP

 The Sub is Kewl but sick overkill, the Satellites do Bass well.

 .


----------



## Ganderson

After a couple days use I am finding the top end to be a little brittle, fatiguing, and harsh on my Denons with my iPod touch as source in super mode.

 I switched from neutral to soft2 mode and I'm still hearing it.

 Will this smooth out with burn in?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ganderson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After a couple days use I am finding the top end to be a little brittle, fatiguing, and harsh on my Denons with my iPod touch as source in super mode.

 I switched from neutral to soft2 mode and I'm still hearing it.

 Will this smooth out with burn in?_

 

This could be a function of the amp revealing limitations in your source material (is it mp3? what bit rate) and/or the DAC of the iPod. I notice this when I listen to some lower bit rate material.


----------



## Ganderson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This could be a function of the amp revealing limitations in your source material (is it mp3? what bit rate) and/or the DAC of the iPod. I notice this when I listen to some lower bit rate material._

 

Most of the music on my iPod is encoded as 320 AAC.

 I am definitly hearing more hiss and digital "artifacts" from the ipod than I was with my RA1 clone so maybe it is a case of the Compass being that much more revealing of the ipods limitations... I already suspected this, I just didn't expect to hear it in the form of a more fatiguing sound.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ganderson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After a couple days use I am finding the top end to be a little brittle, fatiguing, and harsh on my Denons with my iPod touch as source in super mode.

 I switched from neutral to soft2 mode and I'm still hearing it.

 Will this smooth out with burn in?_

 

I have a lot of difficulty listening to an iPod because of what you are describing here.

 .


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lovely.. looks really great !!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Let us know how it goes, I mean does it get it get too warm.. think I'll try it myself, maybe with a slightly gray acrylic.. Thanks !_

 

Thanks Sandchak!

 Self combustability is about 800F and constant operating temp is about 200F. That's hot enough to cause pain! I don't think it will ever be an issue but will keep an eye on it and report back if I notice any warping.

 I saw red and white too. Thought those colors might go well with it.


----------



## roy_jones

I've tried to do as much reading as I can to try to avoid having to ask this question, but are there any reviews of the compass' synergy with Grado RS-1's?

 I know that one of the reviews used 325i's, which helped to give some indication that Grado's are alright with the compass, but there are proportionately very few reviews of users that have Grado's as their primary headphones. Most are running the compass with Denons, AKG or Senns....

 I worry a bit about running a neutral SS amp with the RS-1's, which are said to do better with a tube amp....

 Also, and this question I'm sure has been answered elsewhere, but does Kingwa accept money orders or another form of payment other than paypal? I know...email him. I am hoping to get feedback about the compass with Grado's first, though-


----------



## roy_jones

I've tried to do as much reading as I can to try to avoid having to ask this question, but are there any reviews of the *compass' synergy with Grado RS-1's?*

 I know that one of the reviews used 325i's, which helped to give some indication that Grado's are alright with the compass, but there are proportionately very few reviews of users that have Grado's as their primary headphones. Most are running the compass with Denons, AKG or Senns....

 I worry a bit about running a neutral SS amp with the RS-1's, which are said to do better with a tube amp....

 A related question is what HDAM is best suited for the RS-1, as I'd like to avoid buying all three, if possible. I would've though it wise to avoid the Sun, being that it could be too bright with the grado treble, but one of the very few reviews of a Grado user suggested they liked the Sun best...?

 Also, and this question I'm sure has been answered elsewhere, but does Kingwa accept money orders or another form of payment other than paypal? I know...email him. I am hoping to get feedback about the compass with Grado's first, though-


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nkk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which shipping method is better? I am debating the Compass, and will probably buy before the price increase. However, the shipping difference is $5, so I do not care which I select. Does one have a reputation (excluding baggers, since that seems to be a one shot deal from what I read) for being better?

 Thanks,
 Nkk_

 

Paid 51$ for shipping it to greece by EMS ( west europe according to site ) got posted from sanghai on 14th and got released through customs on last thursday, that's 7 days exactly, i'll hopefully receive it tommorow


----------



## Shizdan

What HDAM do you guys use with the HD 580's?

 i use Earth at neutral!


----------



## zeroibis

Mine is now on the way via DHL!!!! I am so excited I am thinking about ordering a plexi top for it but I think I will wait for it to get here first so I can see if there is anything else I want to do to it.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkhalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Sandchak!

 Self combustability is about 800F and constant operating temp is about 200F. That's hot enough to cause pain! I don't think it will ever be an issue but will keep an eye on it and report back if I notice any warping.

 I saw red and white too. Thought those colors might go well with it._

 

I think this is called trend setting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm thinking of trying this as well, thats such a cool look!


----------



## zupa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is now on the way via DHL!!!! I am so excited I am thinking about ordering a plexi top for it but I think I will wait for it to get here first so I can see if there is anything else I want to do to it._

 

Nice, just found out mine is on the way as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now just waiting for the denon d7000 to come back in stock at jr


----------



## luminate

I've been wondering. When switching cans, is it necessary to turn off the power or turn the volume down all the way?


----------



## haloxt

Add to that question, any problem with me turning on/off the compass with a lightswitch? Could it mess with the slow-power on thing?


----------



## Zhirc

For a while I thought that either Compass or my headphones would have broken.

 When I listened to the music during the last days, I suddenly got a feeling that the sound had become very dull and flat, even fatiguing again. Thought that something was broken or loose. Well, I checked the Earth-HDAM and unexpectedly it wasn't fully connected (I tried a bit earlier if the SUN works). Sound became a bit better after checking the connection again, but wasn't really significantly better than it used to be.

 Then tried if the jumper-settings would actually change the sound, as I had almost always used soft-2 during the burn-in; only tried about a week ago how the neutral-setting would sound and didn't find any good difference.

 For my _big_ surprise, now the neutral sounded simply astonishing - the dull, flat and fatiguing effect was once again absent. Actually, the sound is lot better than before the whole "dull-phase" even started. Certainly different results when comparing to my earlier experiment with the neutral-setting. The bass-presence and impact, the sweet but clear and tidy highs came back stronger than ever, it is very musical again - actually, is this even the same device?!?

 Well, my burn-in is still unfinished (in total only about 310 - 330 hours with games, TV-series, music & noise minus the long rest-time in the noise-file), so I don't know how the sound will still change. Currently I wouldn't want to use the soft-2 setting again - for music at least. Guess I really have to leave the compass & PC on to play noise during the night again to get those damn hours.


----------



## Crikey

A Plea for help.
 I've been burning in my compass for a while now and it was fine so far. But I left it on to burn it in over dinner and by the time I came back, the sound has gone. I can't get it to play the music when I'm playing files through foobar. It was still working before dinner when I was still listening to music but now I don't know what went wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Can anyone identify what might be the problem? I dunno if its because I left it on too long but it doesn't look like its burnt or anything like that.

 Edit: I think I can still hear some hissing when I turn the volume dial to max with headphones connected and nothing is playing
 Edit2: It actually happened after dinner. I was listening to music and then went off somewhere else to work on my assignemnt and left a pink noise loop on via burn-in wave generator for about 2 hours while i was gone.


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crikey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A Plea for help.
 I've been burning in my compass for a while now and it was fine so far. But I left it on to burn it in over dinner and by the time I came back, the sound has gone. I can't get it to play the music when I'm playing files through foobar. It was still working before dinner when I was still listening to music but now I don't know what went wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Can anyone identify what might be the problem? I dunno if its because I left it on too long but it doesn't look like its burnt or anything like that.

 Edit: I think I can still hear some hissing when I turn the volume dial to max with headphones connected and nothing is playing_

 

Have you tested the other inputs? Mabe it's just the PC.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crikey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A Plea for help.
 I've been burning in my compass for a while now and it was fine so far. But I left it on to burn it in over dinner and by the time I came back, the sound has gone. I can't get it to play the music when I'm playing files through foobar. It was still working before dinner when I was still listening to music but now I don't know what went wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Can anyone identify what might be the problem? I dunno if its because I left it on too long but it doesn't look like its burnt or anything like that.

 Edit: I think I can still hear some hissing when I turn the volume dial to max with headphones connected and nothing is playing_

 

Have you tried turning foobar and Compass off and then turning them back on again, also check the foobar settings to see if its hooked up to Compass still. 
 I highly doubt that your Compass is broken, at least not from overuse. I know that there are people who have left theirs running over the course of an entire weekend, so I don't think a little listening and dinner would do it in. Of course this is just my opinion, and I may be wrong.

 Edit: This is the first time I have heard of this problem as well. It would seem more likely that something is wrong with the Compass if it had happened before. You may also want to check your connections (at both ends).


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried turning foobar and Compass off and then turning them back on again, also check the foobar settings to see if its hooked up to Compass still. 
 I highly doubt that your Compass is broken, at least not from overuse. I know that there are people who have left theirs running over the course of an entire weekend, so I don't think a little listening and dinner would do it in. Of course this is just my opinion, and I may be wrong.

 Edit: This is the first time I have heard of this problem as well. It would seem more likely that something is wrong with the Compass if it had happened before. You may also want to check your connections (at both ends)._

 

I turned mine on 6 weeks ago.

 .


----------



## Crikey

Truth be told I've left my compass on for the pass few days for burn in, but it was fine up till now with no problems. I've tried restarting my comp, reopening foobar, using Directsound's USB DAC driver but it still hasn't done any good so far. I don't really have any other means to test the other inputs and I still need to find a screwdriver to try to see if its the HDAM's that might be the problem. I might leave it off and see what happens tomorrow. I really hope it's not something serious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The funny thing is that the computer is able to recognise the compass as a usb dac and foobar and asio4all seem to be working, its just that there's no music going through to my headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Edit: Thanks alot for the help so far. Its really helping me cope with having no compass now with people trying to think of ways where it might have gone wrong. Thank you very much!


----------



## obentou

I'd say if you left it the way it was before and after dinner, the Compass probably blew up.... most local conclusion to me unfortunately


----------



## jjo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luminate* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When switching cans, is it necessary to turn off the power or turn the volume down all the way?_

 

no


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no_

 

I don't know too may people that don't turn the Vol down before DC'ing their cans to keep from hitting the drivers with a LOUD POP.

 .


----------



## squall343

always a good habit to turn down the volume before switching off

 especially when dealing with tubes amp etc


----------



## Sesonic

Tell my this, I bought a new compass and a new pair of sennheiser HD650's. I have all music on my pc and sent to my airport express and fed into my compass via optical. I'm currently burning in using soft 2 and earth.

 What i have noticed so far is that this combination seems to be lacking bass as another user pointed out earlier, Will the bass get better on the HD650's or should i get another pair of cans with better bass? Both headphones and compass only have around 20hrs on it so far and since both are new i'm wondering do they need a few hundred hours of burn in for the bass to improve

 My Sony MDR V700 DJ actually sound better than the 650's and i'm wondering if i should have bought the denon D2000 or similar.


 Also should i leave the foam where the OPAMP on the inside of the lid or take it off?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sesonic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tell my this, I bought a new compass and a new pair of sennheiser HD650's. I have all music on my pc and sent to my airport express and fed into my compass via optical. I'm currently burning in using soft 2 and earth.

 What i have noticed so far is that this combination seems to be lacking bass as another user pointed out earlier, Will the bass get better on the HD650's or should i get another pair of cans with better bass? Both headphones and compass only have around 20hrs on it so far and since both are new i'm wondering do they need a few hundred hours of burn in for the bass to improve

 My Sony MDR V700 DJ actually sound better than the 650's and i'm wondering if i should have bought the denon D2000 or similar.


 Also should i leave the foam where the OPAMP on the inside of the lid or take it off?_

 

It depends on what you mean by lacking in bass... would you consider yourself a 'bass head'? What kind of music do you like? Do you like the subwoofer sound? The HD650s are actually pretty 'dark' - they have a decent amount of lower end, but they aren't boomy like a subwoofer. If you are someone who likes a whole lot of bass we can certainly recommend you some cans, but the HD650s are more natural than that - they don't have a bass emphasis. What kind of music are you listening to and what is it you're looking for?

 Besides that, the bass gets tighter and punchier as the units break in, but I wouldn't say that there's more of it - it is just 'better'.


----------



## SoFGR

it's been 4 hours since i got my mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd like to point out 2 things before posting my detailed impressions. 

 1) 6db gain is NOT enough for DT770/80 pro, 13db works much better in my experience 

 2) x-fi titanium owners fear not, this beast has no problems with gaming at all, i can use cmss3d EAX and openAL in bf2 kai ut2k4 just fine through my card's optical output, bye bye analog and crappy cirrus chips 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll post more tommorow when i try the akg 601s and moon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw i have no problems with bass quantity and impact at all, earth - neutral - 13db gain, thank you everybody for your informative posts, thank you kingwa currawong and the rest of audio-gd for making and selling this product.


----------



## jjo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know too may people that don't turn the Vol down before DC'ing their cans to keep from hitting the drivers with a LOUD POP._

 

That is of course a matter of preference. There is no technical reason why you would be required to do so. When I'm switching cans I take the cans off before unplugging them.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sesonic...read page 1, post # 1. That goes for any more with questions already covered in the FAQ/Review pages......take the time to read it and inform oneself.

 Scottie I think he's experiencing a triple whammy, HDAM, Compass and HD650 burn in all at the same time. Since he didn't mention any hours of any piece of kit my assumption is is to treat this as everything he has is in dire need of time and burn in....600 hours ought to wrap up everything ...Sesonic the HD650's need 250-300 hrs, HDAM 350 hrs (ea module), Compass 600 hours. By the time you pass 400 hours on all three the SQ should be very different (much better) than it is right now. The last 200 hours of the Compass burn in process have sound stage, dynamics (macro and micro) and frequency spectrum extension improvement/refinements.

 Sesonic and anyone else with similar questions please read the FAQ and reviews on Curra's excellent opening and ever evolving FAQ/Review page.

 New acronym......right alongside RTFM is RTFFAQ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...infact

*[size=xx-large]RTFFAQ[/size]*......LOL.

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crikey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Truth be told I've left my compass on for the pass few days for burn in_

 

I left mine on for 2 weeks straight. There's an allan/hex key in the kit with your compass you can use to open the case. If you haven't already, check the HDAM is seated properly.

 Have you accidentally turned on Super mode? Make sure the "S" button is out, not in. Also make sure you haven't switched inputs.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sesonic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Sony MDR V700 DJ actually sound better than the 650's and i'm wondering if i should have bought the denon D2000 or similar.

 Also should i leave the foam where the OPAMP on the inside of the lid or take it off?_

 

The advice you were given by others is good. It depends on whether you want subwoofer-style bass (Denons) or just stronger and more punchy bass (a better amp).

 I'd remove the foam, by the way.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I turned mine on 6 weeks ago.

 ._

 

Mine certainly hasn't been powered-down since the start of March. I can't remember when I stopped swapping HDAM modules, but it was certainly before then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I received it the last week of January. I'd have realised the differences between the new and used Earth modules in early February, and done my final change 2-2.5 weeks after that.

 It's safe to say it's currently "warmed up" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 .

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Solid Snake

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luminate* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been wondering. When switching cans, is it necessary to turn off the power or turn the volume down all the way?_

 

I do this with any amps I own just for precaution...But I don't think it would be a big deal to leave it on.

 BTW:

 I am going to get the SA5000 soon and was wondering if you guys would recommend the OPA-Sun or OPA-Moon and what jumper settings would you guys recommend? I just have the Earth right now and was wondering if the brightness would be too overwhelming with the OPA-Earth or not.

 Thanks


----------



## les_garten

Thought I wold throw a little fuel on the Lovefest!!

 Click on them, You know you want to...


+ YouTube Video​ _*ERROR:* If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed._ 



 >>
 >>

+ YouTube Video​ _*ERROR:* If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed._ 



 >>
 >>

+ YouTube Video​ _*ERROR:* If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed._ 



 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Wow I didn't know you could get the Compass setup with the controls on the longer side (don't the know the correct way to put this). Interesting, Unless I'm high or something....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Solid Snake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do this with any amps I own just for precaution...But I don't think it would be a big deal to leave it on.

 BTW:

 I am going to get the SA5000 soon and was wondering if you guys would recommend the OPA-Sun or OPA-Moon and what jumper settings would you guys recommend? I just have the Earth right now and was wondering if the brightness would be too overwhelming with the OPA-Earth or not.

 Thanks_

 

Tough to say as some combinations turn out to be a complete surprise and somewhat counter intuitive. Moon + bright is a great setting as is Earth + Neutral, Sun + Neutral and SUN + Soft 1 is another. Earth + bright for dark cans has been reported as damn good...bright cans that are bass shy ? Try Moon + Neutral at first then Soft or 2. Same with the other modules until you find a combo that works for you. The problems in judging what works are multiplied if the modules are not burned in...so you'll have to spend a lot of time getting what you have up to speed and then experiment otherwise you'll be chasing a ghost.

 Try some obvious combos at first then go with unorthodox....try and get all the modules burned as fast as you can.

 Peete.

 PS Are the SA5000's a lot like the HD800's ? Jeez they sure do have some striking similarities but I bet that ends with looks...it sure would be interesting to hear a shootout between the 2 types. Maybe later on this year (if the HD800's are released...man these delays are making me nervous).


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thought I wold throw a little fuel on the Lovefest!!_

 

Thanks man, that was really beautiful, I almost started to tear up... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Too bad they didn't show the Yoda performing his craft...


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow I didn't know you could get the Compass setup with the controls on the longer side (don't the know the correct way to put this). Interesting, Unless I'm high or something....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Yeah, I noticed that too...controls and inputs, makes ya wonder what other tweaks were applied, very cool...


----------



## Solid Snake

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tough to say as some combinations turn out to be a complete surprise and somewhat counter intuitive. Moon + bright is a great setting as is Earth + Neutral, Sun + Neutral and SUN + Soft 1 is another. Earth + bright for dark cans has been reported as damn good...bright cans that are bass shy ? Try Moon + Neutral at first then Soft or 2. Same with the other modules until you find a combo that works for you. The problems in judging what works are multiplied if the modules are not burned in...so you'll have to spend a lot of time getting what you have up to speed and then experiment otherwise you'll be chasing a ghost.

 Try some obvious combos at first then go with unorthodox....try and get all the modules burned as fast as you can.

 Peete.

 PS Are the SA5000's a lot like the HD800's ? Jeez they sure do have some striking similarities but I bet that ends with looks...it sure would be interesting to hear a shootout between the 2 types. Maybe later on this year (if the HD800's are released...man these delays are making me nervous)._

 

That is what I figured. OPA-Moon with SOFT-2 jumper settings...But there is no definite answer for sure. I will just have to experiment until I find the kind of sound that I like.


----------



## darkhalo

Very nice rig Les! I can imagine that sounds very good in person.


----------



## j2kei

just placed my order, can't wait already for when it gets here


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Did the woebegone lesson really suffer the business?


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could somebody briefly explain how to properly put jumpers on? When I put it between the two 'leads' it seems very very loose. Is this okay?_

 

use 1 jumper per two pins and push it all the way down


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Also make sure the jumpers are placed running from the front of the unit (volume/switch side) to back of the unit (RCA connector side)... rather than across the width of the unit.

 Just follow the small "jumper 1" "Jumper 2" diagrams on the board by the jumpers. If you have done this and pushed the jumpers all the way down but the jumpers are still loose then I guess the pins may be bent a bit.


----------



## op2003

See attached picture:


----------



## Crikey

I've tried reseating the HDAM already (several times) and I've tried pressing the super button and also the pre-amp switch as well, but it doesn't make any difference. I've tried taking the jumpers off as well but that didn't fix the problem. The only thing I haven't done that comes to mind is to change my HDAM but I still need to find a screwdriver for that. If nothing works I think I'll have to email Kingwa to see if he can find the source of the problem. Thanks alot for the so far guys though, really appreciated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Edit: A visual inspection of the insides of the compass doesn't seem to show anything that has blown or burnt, which isn't really indicative of the source of the problem but I don't think its due to a blown cap or capacitor.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkhalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice rig Les! I can imagine that sounds very good in person._

 

Yes! Unfortunately not mine! I was doing some research for someone interested in A-GD and ran across those Vidz. Fun though...

 .


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Crikey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've tried reseating the HDAM already (several times) and I've tried pressing the super button and also the pre-amp switch as well, but it doesn't make any difference. I've tried taking the jumpers off as well but that didn't fix the problem. The only thing I haven't done that comes to mind is to change my HDAM but I still need to find a screwdriver for that. If nothing works I think I'll have to email Kingwa to see if he can find the source of the problem. Thanks alot for the so far guys though, really appreciated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Edit: A visual inspection of the insides of the compass doesn't seem to show anything that has blown or burnt, which isn't really indicative of the source of the problem but I don't think its due to a blown cap or capacitor._

 

That's a shame. Hopefully it's just a HDAM that's not working, if not your computer being silly. If it is something faulty in the Compass, Kingwa will sort it out for you.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Crikey....swap the HDAM ASAP so you can rule it or the Compass out. IS the current HDAM sitting loosely in the socket ? If it is that may be the cause of the noise. If the pins do not make good contact this kind of thing happens (although if it is a more serious problem like a bad HDAM we'll know soon enough with the swap) and if that is so take the HDAM out, gently push the pins out (half mm or so) so they all line up and make good contact (solid feel going into the DIP8 socket) when reinserted. Be careful with those pins they are soft metal and easily broken...only a very slight adjustment is needed.

 It's worth a try since I've had modules do this to me at times.

 Peete.


----------



## ecclesand

This is a dumb question but what the hell....

 How are you folks storing the HDAMs you're not using? I just put them back in the original shipping box they came in, but I'm looking for something a little more elegant that protects them better. Any ideas?


----------



## Aleatoris

An acrylic box with the block of foam (the one that the HDAM shipped in) at the bottom. Or replace the foarm with one those op-amp receptacle thingies (the thing currently attached to your compass where you plug in the HDAM).

 I have no idea what that part is called. Time to learn some DIY electronics...


----------



## joewatch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a dumb question but what the hell....

 How are you folks storing the HDAMs you're not using? I just put them back in the original shipping box they came in, but I'm looking for something a little more elegant that protects them better. Any ideas?_

 

I have it in the shipping box, too. IMHO, "special cases" for stuff are overpriced and over-rated! Reduce, reuse, recycle my friends.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joewatch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have it in the shipping box, too. IMHO, "special cases" for stuff are overpriced and over-rated! Reduce, reuse, recycle my friends._

 

Bah....you're right. Some time I take my neat-freakness too far.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thought I wold throw a little fuel on the Lovefest!!

 Click on them, You know you want to...


 >>
 >>

 >>
 >>

 ._

 

Absolutely not! I don't want to see, nor hear, anything from Audio-GD costing more than $5. Because I'll want it, and there are other loves in my life. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a dumb question but what the hell....

 How are you folks storing the HDAMs you're not using? I just put them back in the original shipping box they came in, but I'm looking for something a little more elegant that protects them better. Any ideas?_

 

Anti-static bag, thrown into the Compass' box. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## obentou

EMS sure is taking a long time, usually EMS from Hong Kong takes 4-5 days to Canada.

 Guess the EMS from China is sending this **** on a ship or something... ridiculous!

 I'm dyingggg to hear the Compass... ah well!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Absolutely not! I don't want to see, nor hear, anything from Audio-GD costing more than $5. Because I'll want it, and there are other loves in my life. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 


 I hear you! Just say no!

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Absolutely not! I don't want to see, nor hear, anything from Audio-GD costing more than $5. Because I'll want it, and there are other loves in my life. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 


 I hear you! Just say no!






 .


----------



## Solid Snake

This is a very very helpful picture since I myself was a little confused about how to correctly match the jumpers to the settings I wanted. (Horizontally or vertically? Left or right side?)


----------



## nkk

Just ordered with all three OPA. I can't wait, and to make it even worse, it is my first approaching audiophile DAC/amp purches (nuforce icon mobile is good, but not that good), so I have the extra anticipation of not even knowing what I am missing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Nkk


----------



## DoYouRight

I really wan't this in my hands. I have cleaned up my desk fairly well and added wooden risers (wood drink coasters) to reduce heat and maybe vibration but maybe a hockey puck would work better? Any ideas?


----------



## nkk

Somehow I am not thinking vibration is a big deal for the compass (may be wrong, but my common sense and physics knowledge is saying otherwise). 


 As for heat, any circulation wiil do. The coasters will work.

 -Nkk


----------



## indie_big_wig

My compass has arrived and is currently sat under my desk at wor. Suffice to say I am now clock watching until the end of the day - only 1:37:27 to go! 

 This is my first headphone amp and I'm putting it with my hd650's which are also only a month old - I hope it lives up to the hype and it turns out to be the shizzle.


----------



## squall343

for those user of usb asio driver (there is quite a few in the compass thread)

 i think there is a new version out yesterday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just updated mine

 look like they no longer split between xp and vista so those having vista problem with that driver can give the new one a try


----------



## SoFGR

for those who are having stability issues with ASIO and media monkey try this guide 
Making MediaMonkey Sound Better - Hydrogenaudio Forums, all i did was using mpg123 instead of mm mp3 decoder and my player now longer crashes when i pause a track


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_for those user of usb asio driver (there is quite a few in the compass thread)

 i think there is a new version out yesterday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 just updated mine

 look like they no longer split between xp and vista so those having vista problem with that driver can give the new one a try_

 

That's the version I was sent a few days ago by the owner after writing him a long list of problems I had with vista 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Worked perfectly fine with my vista computer after one or two install attempts and a computer restart.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's the version I was sent a few days ago by the owner after writing him a long list of problems I had with vista 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Worked perfectly fine with my vista computer after one or two install attempts and a computer restart._

 

what i notice with this version

 1. Last time used to have some static sound when i run foobar + other video player together at the same time. 
 Now seem to be fixed

 2. Can no longer control the volume of video using media player classic software volume control. Can't even mute the video now.
 Dunno whether that is good or bad

 But look like there is still some problem with opening microsoft word


----------



## Shizdan

Hey guys!. I have a question. I have my Hd 580's and I want a good sound yet also the closest to how the artist wanted his/her music to be heard. I'm using the EARTH Opa

 1 - Should I burn in with ALL jumpers? or just use neutral jumper?
 2 - What jumper settings would you recommend for the HD 580?

 Also, anybody ordering a compass soon? I would like to throw in some $$ and see if they could purchase the moon and sun OPA


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Did the medical initial really rescue the sentence?


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for being a newb, but which USB asio are you talking about? I tried updating my driver on Device Manager, but it said mine is already updated, which I am sure it is not._

 

USB Audio - the low latency experience

 this one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just download the new version and run the setup

 It will update to the newest version


----------



## Shoreman

You know, I've been on the Compass bandwagon pretty much from the get go, and had every intention of pulling the trigger this week. I was pretty much sold on using the Compass to replace my E-MU 0404, and living happily (I hope) ever after.

 However, after rereading theBigD's comparison review of the Compass and C2C yesterday, and considering the merits, at least in some people's minds, of the 0404's DAC, I find myself pondering the idea of springing for the C2C instead, and coupling it with the 0404. 

 I've been trying to look ahead. I could forsee myself absolutely loving the Compass, and then pining for even more of the same, and wishing I had gone right for the C2C.

 So...I'm looking for feedback/recommendations from those that have possibly heard the components in question and could offer some sound advice. That is, in a nutshell, does a C2C/0404 combination trump the Compass? And anything else that they might want to offer. 

 I understand that subjectivity is integral to this assessment, but I've read enough from people like Currawong, Peete, BigD, Zanth and many others (please don't be offended if I didn't mention you personally--there are simply too many of you) to know that a bunch of folks here really know what they're talking about, and can be trusted. I, for one, will certainly take your recommendations seriously.

 Thanks...


----------



## haloxt

squall343, I had lots and lots of problems with usb-audio not letting me open stuff, and I wouldn't be surprised if it must be doing that behind my back right now. But for question 1., enter usb-audio options, go to ASIO tab, and choose a slow speed under "System performance". I have to do "Relaxed Normal" to prevent static from scrolling and opening programs. And 2., I don't think media player classic even supports ASIO lol.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shoreman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So...I'm looking for feedback/recommendations from those that have possibly heard the components in question and could offer some sound advice. That is, in a nutshell, does a C2C/0404 combination trump the Compass? And anything else that they might want to offer._

 

See this post, for some info on the 0404 DAC vs the Compass.


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_USB Audio - the low latency experience

 this one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just download the new version and run the setup

 It will update to the newest version 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Thanks for the info, I updated mine too. Strange thing is that the only version that worked in my XP was the first one: 98/2000/ME/XP and now this updated XP/Vista is working. I changed USB port and may be very well placebo but it sounds more natural. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, at least it doesn't crash anymore when I pause and go back in the timeline (MM).

 Kingwa's power cable is almost at my home, I'll place my considerations after some time here too. Let's see what it will do, as I don't see many info on this product.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And 2., I don't think media player classic even supports ASIO lol._

 

Squall343 was the only person who managed to get non-ASIO capable software to output via USB with the USB-Audio driver installed. I guess that's over now. (Sorry about that.)


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Squall343 was the only person who managed to get non-ASIO capable software to output via USB with the USB-Audio driver installed. I guess that's over now. (Sorry about that.)_

 

You mean output, or output ASIO? You could get media player classic to do ASIO but you have to use a VST plugin.


----------



## Shoreman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See this post, for some info on the 0404 DAC vs the Compass._

 

Yes, Drosera, thanks. I read those comments initially, and then reread them again yesterday. They were very helpful. But what I would like some feedback on is how the pairing of the 0404 and C2C might compare to the Compass. I'm hoping you and the other "regulars" can offer some advice.

 Thanks for the quick response.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shoreman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, Drosera, thanks. I read those comments initially, and then reread them again yesterday. They were very helpful. But what I would like some feedback on is how the pairing of the 0404 and C2C might compare to the Compass. I'm hoping you and the other "regulars" can offer some advice.

 Thanks for the quick response._

 

Ah, sorry, I should have figured you were someone who actually knew how to use the search function. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Based on those impressions and my own experience I would still hold by my credo of "source first". So an upgrade in source will weigh heavier towards the overall sound quality IMO, than an upgrade in the amp department. So I would advise either to get the Compass or to go for the C-2C AND a new DAC (DAC-19MK3, used Stello DA100, Benchmark or Lavry come to mind). Of course, you could just get the C-2C and wait 'till you have sufficient funds for a source upgrade later, but it might be that the initial improvement over the amp of the 0404 will be a minor one.

 But I'm just guessing here, I'm sure someone who has actually heard both the Compass and the C-2C will chime in here.

 (Living happily ever after? I didn't know that was even an option around here. The only future plans I see for myself is suffering through chronic bouts of upgraditis. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## MadMan007

Hi. I'm trying to wade through this thread but it's MASSIVE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyhow I am looking to order a Compass in the next day or two before the pricing goes up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What I'd like to know is whether it's a good idea to get the additional HDAMs besides the stock Earth. I generally like a neutral sound with the least changes, especially from sources, so I was leaning toward just getting the Earth but of course the tweaker in me wants to try the other HDAMs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 especially since they'd be shipped with the Compass this would save some money. I guess my question then is whether the 'tone setting' jumpers change the sound in a different manner than the HDAMs? Also are the jumpers just for the headphone amp/preamp section and not for pure DAC mode?


----------



## samspotting

It looks like my order was shipped on the 24th (sunday) according to their website with ems. Anyone have any idea of when it will come, if I live in Toronto?


----------



## Mik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *samspotting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It looks like my order was shipped on the 24th (sunday) according to their website with ems. Anyone have any idea of when it will come, if I live in Toronto?_

 

I'm also in Toronto and my C2C took between 1 and 2 weeks to arrive by EMS once shipped. I've had EMS shipments from Japan arrive in 2 days before though so it might be faster sometimes.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi. I'm trying to wade through this thread but it's MASSIVE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Anyhow I am looking to order a Compass in the next day or two before the pricing goes up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What I'd like to know is whether it's a good idea to get the additional HDAMs besides the stock Earth. I generally like a neutral sound with the least changes, especially from sources, so I was leaning toward just getting the Earth but of course the tweaker in me wants to try the other HDAMs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 especially since they'd be shipped with the Compass this would save some money. I guess my question then is whether the 'tone setting' jumpers change the sound in a different manner than the HDAMs? Also are the jumpers just for the headphone amp/preamp section and not for pure DAC mode?_

 

The jumpers won't affect the dac in "bypass" mode. Some people say all three hdam's are worth getting, but the earth is the most popular. If you really want to experience the other two flavors, then get them, they'll have good resale value later. But if you don't want to take a risk buying them, just go with the earth, I don't think anyone dislikes it.


----------



## Skorpitarius

'Earth' sounds just right to me via Sennheiser / Sony and Altec-Lansing headphones ... I hear/feel no need to buy the other 2 . Yes, i'm curious to a/b/c compare them but ...shrug .


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi. I'm trying to wade through this thread but it's MASSIVE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyhow I am looking to order a Compass in the next day or two before the pricing goes up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What I'd like to know is whether it's a good idea to get the additional HDAMs besides the stock Earth. I generally like a neutral sound with the least changes, especially from sources, so I was leaning toward just getting the Earth but of course the tweaker in me wants to try the other HDAMs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 especially since they'd be shipped with the Compass this would save some money. I guess my question then is whether the 'tone setting' jumpers change the sound in a different manner than the HDAMs? Also are the jumpers just for the headphone amp/preamp section and not for pure DAC mode?_

 

Since you like neutral, the Earth would be your best choice, if you had to choose one. That said, it seems that most who didn't get the others at initial purchase either went back and got them or wished they had/could. If you think you'd ever want to try them, I'd say go for it since you save on shipping - the shipping alone makes ordering just an HDAM kind of silly - but if you bunch it in with other purchases (something big like a compass) you essentially get 'free' shipping on the HDAM. As other have said I'm sure you could sell them pretty easily if you don't like them, but I've found I like switching them out from time to time, even if I have my favorite.

 The jumpers are just for the amp/preamp - if you use super for DAC only, just swapping the HDAM will give you different sounds.


----------



## thelsuman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi. I'm trying to wade through this thread but it's MASSIVE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyhow I am looking to order a Compass in the next day or two before the pricing goes up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What I'd like to know is whether it's a good idea to get the additional HDAMs besides the stock Earth. I generally like a neutral sound with the least changes, especially from sources, so I was leaning toward just getting the Earth but of course the tweaker in me wants to try the other HDAMs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 especially since they'd be shipped with the Compass this would save some money. I guess my question then is whether the 'tone setting' jumpers change the sound in a different manner than the HDAMs? Also are the jumpers just for the headphone amp/preamp section and not for pure DAC mode?_

 

Personally, I like the Earth module (and based on your comments, chances are it would suit your tastes well), but considering that incremental shipping costs for the extra HDAMS is nill, why not take the plunge on those as well? After all, you could have fun auditioning the numerous HDAMs/jumper modes, find the one(s) that best suit you, and then sell any unwanted HDAM modules for roughly the same $ it cost you. Oh....and to my ears (at least), swapping HDAMs made a more noticeable difference in sound than the jumpers.


----------



## ALL EARS

After reading the first 300 and skipped over to thread 415 reading replies and hearing all comments made and the 
 extensive testing i decided to order the compass /with panther amp to move
 a pair of M&K speakers 750's i am a newbbee and wanted a dac for my mac book pro. the headphone amp is a plus or is the dac with the amp a plus
 for the price and what i have read on the workmanship this may be the deal of the year! i also purchased the moon and the sun v.2 hdams mind you i am 
 new to all this so please accept my views as one who is just learning the audiophile way of things. Prior to my purchase the customer service has been stellar.
 Cherry has been great through the whole purchasing process responding to my
 endless question asking by me, with very prompt replies, Kingwa has even answered where Cherry could not. i have little time for my self raising 4 kids
 at home and wish i could spend more time with the burn in process and hearing my unit evolve, what Kingwa suggested, he could do a more extensive burn time for me with no extra charge now thats customer service
 so i asked him if he would do a 300 hour burn in time for me ? and he will provide that service for me , that includes burn in of the Panther amp, Compass,2 extra opamps
 the anticipation is like xmas day , reading the threads i opted to get the upgraded power cord, shark inter connect and rca cable with shipping, 4% paypal costs, all said came to under a grand. i herd some people were getting discounts on accessories with the purchase of the compass i did not get such a discount, i also purchased the Panther Amp , if anybody got discounts on power cords inter connects please let me know who i should speak to or what approach to take. i ordered a week ago Kingwa told me with the added burn in time it would be 25 to 30 days before shipping , the days are getting longer if you know what i mean. in the mean time i will shop around to find a way to listen to CD quality non compressed music files
 if any body has a suggestion im All Ears. by the wat i will be listening mostly through my SE530 til i can match up a nice pair HP with the compass
 amp. thanks be back soon .
 All Ears


----------



## thelsuman

Has anyone here tried the Panther amp yet? I tried searching HF, but all I could find is a discussion where some dude hijacked the thread...going on & on about some amp he didn't even own


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Wow I bet that system (Compass & Panther with the M&K's) will knock your socks off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The discount for the accessories only lasted for a short time period and was posted as such , those items were not meant to stay on permanent discount during the intro price period ...just an additional thanks for taking a chance on the Compass is my best guess for the early adopters back in Feb/Mar. It's only a guess though.

 Kingwa is terrific guy that is for sure, he'll do as much as he can for you to help and accommodate reasonable requests (even some unreasonable ones...but taking of advantage of things isn't cool in my book, not that I'm accusing anyone)

 No matter how many times I try and reword this...it still comes out sounding like I'm a spokesman...I'm not.

 Sigh....

 Anyway...I'd love to hear thoughts on the Panther and the DAC19 Mk III...I should have my CD7/Compass (final rev) sometime soon....EMS hasn't updated the tracking page for 4 days now (not that I'm worried)....must be coming by DC3 via the N Pole 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ALL EARS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thelsuman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone here tried the Panther amp yet? I tried searching HF, but all I could find is a discussion where some dude hijacked the thread...going on & on about some amp he didn't even own 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hope i am doing this right i still learning to navigate, reply etc. sorry for highjacking i did not know were to tell all how excited i am about this whole
 experience with audio-gd and head-fi forum sorry for the all around newbee mistake please except my apology. 
 All Ears


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Your fine Mr Ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ALL EARS

Pete,
 Thanks for the info on the discount thing i had to ask. i followed your threads
 for quite a long time before pulling the trigger and thanks for the insightful
 information you and others,Les Garten, brought to my attention. on the amp part i only
 have a RSA Mustang to compare the amp section of the compass and no DAC
 to compare with, so very exciting stuff for me. i dont think of you as a shill
 as that one person put it some post's ago but a person who knows what i dont
 and you are a world of helpful information people should see that. Kingwa is doing a long burn in for me and that tells all what kind of guy he is, i thanked him for his customer service and from that service i purchased extra cables, i will be loyal to him and thankful by purchasing his products.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shoreman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So...I'm looking for feedback/recommendations from those that have possibly heard the components in question and could offer some sound advice. That is, in a nutshell, does a C2C/0404 combination trump the Compass? And anything else that they might want to offer._

 

You'd want a much better DAC than the 0404 to go with the C2C. I usually suggest a DAC19MK3, or second-hand Apogee, Lavry, or Benchmark, Stello or similar. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi. I'm trying to wade through this thread but it's MASSIVE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's why I wrote the FAQ, to save people having to do this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ALL EARS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hope i am doing this right i still learning to navigate, reply etc. sorry for highjacking i did not know were to tell all how excited i am about this whole
 experience with audio-gd and head-fi forum sorry for the all around newbee mistake please except my apology. 
 All Ears
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Can I suggest that you review what you've written before posting it and amend it to make it clearer and more readable. For example, break up your writing into shorter sentences.


----------



## rx7mark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ALL EARS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After reading the first 300 and skipped over to thread 415 reading replies and hearing all comments made and the 
 extensive testing i decided to order the compass /with panther amp 
 All Ears_

 

All Ears,
 I am really excited that someone here on Head.fi has pulled the trigger on the Panther. I would really like to order one as well, to go with my Compass, as soon as funds are available. I know you are fairly new to all of this but please post pics and first impressions when you get everything setup and working to you satisfaction. There is a seperate Panther thread that would be appropriate to post to. Should be a great setup. 

 As to cans, I have Denon D2000's and am quite happy, but Sennheiser HD580, HD600, or HD650's would be great, as well, if you don't need a closed can. Lots of other choises too, but I have not tried any of those.

 Mark


----------



## Mitchell.lax

Bloody headfi. I've just ordered a Compass after having a zero for no more than 3 weeks (It blew up). Sorry about your wallet is right!


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's why I wrote the FAQ, to save people having to do this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

The FAQ is great for getting functionality and some impressions but it's not going to give me every nuance and thought that's in the thread. I appreciate your FAQs though, don't get me wrong! I'll probably have to give up on trying to read this whole thing, I've seen this thread since it was <20 pages and it's totally gotten away from me heh.

 OH yeah one other thing...are there any head[hones that the Compass doesn't go particularly well with?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ALL EARS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pete,
 Thanks for the info on the discount thing i had to ask. i followed your threads
 for quite a long time before pulling the trigger and thanks for the insightful
 information you and others,Les Garten, brought to my attention. on the amp part i only
 have a RSA Mustang to compare the amp section of the compass and no DAC
 to compare with, so very exciting stuff for me. i dont think of you as a shill
 as that one person put it some post's ago but a person who knows what i dont
 and you are a world of helpful information people should see that. Kingwa is doing a long burn in for me and that tells all what kind of guy he is, i thanked him for his customer service and from that service i purchased extra cables, i will be loyal to him and thankful by purchasing his products._

 

Glad you found your way over here. Thought this would be what you were looking for.
*
 @ MadMan007: * The Compass drives everything well. I hooked it up to some TIN Cans and it sounded and drove them great! If you use the MOON HDAM it even attenuates the Sibilance associated with Del Monte Canned Tomatoes Canz!






 .


----------



## MadMan007

Unfortunately I just sold my Del Monte Canned Tomatoes Canz to help pay for the Compass so I won't be able to verify that personally but I'll take your word for it


----------



## zupa

How long does it take for kingwa to typically ship after you place an order?


----------



## Mitchell.lax

I'm curious too. On the site I see that there's a two week leadin time, plus shipping so I wonder how accurate that is.


----------



## hertz

I'm very interested in the Compass and read many reviews in the FAQ.

 Even though the HDAMs are designed for the Compass, I am a little curious if anyone has ever replaced the discrete HDAM with opamps, such as dual opa627 or dual ad797, etc. Is there any change in the sound quality?


----------



## hertz

I email them yesterday and they say they usually ship it within two weeks.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zupa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long does it take for kingwa to typically ship after you place an order?_


----------



## idunno

I received my office Compass last Thursday (three days China to Boston!) and wanted to comment on burn-in. This compass sounded quite different on arrival than my memory (NB!) of my first compass... the first one arrived with a wide soundstage and strong, slightly boomy bass. The second arrived with a flat soundstage and deeply recessed bass. Not until today, with roughly 20 hours additional burn-in, did the second Compass reach a sound signature similar to what I recalled experiencing with the first. Now I anticipate that the new unit will follow a familiar path to the refined sound signature I've grown accustomed to on the first, with 1700+ hours of burn-in.

 My point is twofold:

 1.Burn-in produces significant changes in sound signature.
 2.These units are either shipping with slightly differing amounts of burn-in, or the changes in sound signature are not precisely consistent between units.


----------



## idunno

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hertz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm very interested in the Compass and read many reviews in the FAQ.

 Even though the HDAMs are designed for the Compass, I am a little curious if anyone has ever replaced the discrete HDAM with opamps, such as dual opa627 or dual ad797, etc. Is there any change in the sound quality?_

 

A limited number of us have tried IC's/opamps in lieu of the HDAMs. I still plan to complete some extensive evaluations and write-ups, but my initial impression is that the AD743 is the only direct competitor to the HDAMs (in the Compass) that I've heard. Good weather/the advent of summer has delayed these comparisons, but I hope to complete them without too much delay.

 Majkel has posted a thorough review of the HDAM units vs. IC's (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/aud...-v-2-a-397691/), but his tests don't employ the Compass. For use in the Compass, I have to disagree with majkel; the AD797 simply does not compete with any of the HDAM units. I have to admit that I've yet to read that entire thread, so I can't comment on anything said in response to his review.


----------



## fluffygdog95

I ordered on the 17th and it is being shipped this Friday, the 29th.


----------



## obentou

2009-05-20 19:34:00 SHANGHAI Posting 
 　 2009-05-20 21:44:00 SHANGHAI Despatch from Sorting Center 
 　 2009-05-20 23:14:16 SHANGHAI Arrival at Sorting Center 
 　 2009-05-21 00:04:43 SHANGHAI Despatch from Sorting Center 

 Patiently waiting... lol


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hertz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even though the HDAMs are designed for the Compass, I am a little curious if anyone has ever replaced the discrete HDAM with opamps, such as dual opa627 or dual ad797, etc. Is there any change in the sound quality?_

 

I have tried out of curiosity the LME49720, LT1364, AD8066, and OPA2134 in my Compass.

 In my opinion none of them could compare to the sound quality I heard from the Earth and Moon. They were in a different league.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mitchell.lax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bloody headfi. I've just ordered a Compass after having a zero for no more than 3 weeks (It blew up). Sorry about your wallet is right!_

 

It blew up ? Is that the new 2009 version or the older one not that I'm trying to split hairs ? I wonder if the new version addressed the no 1 ill of the Zero IMO (it's poor quality pcb and it's razor thin traces).

 The Compass is so far beyond the Zero in every possible respect (SQ, build quality etc) ...not to worry...and sorry about the wallet....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Skorpitarius

Compass is worth waiting for and yes, it sounds better every day / night that I have a listen ... My headphones are new-ish also so they are burning in as wel ... it's all coming together ...
 Curious to do a headphone cable upgrade next , I think ...


----------



## hertz

Good to know that. Thank you.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkhalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have tried out of curiosity the LME49720, LT1364, AD8066, and OPA2134 in my Compass.

 In my opinion none of them could compare to the sound quality I heard from the Earth and Moon. They were in a different league._


----------



## MadMan007

I guess the last thing before I finalize my order is how 'FOTM' is the Compass? Reading reviews it seems to compare to builds up to 3x the price (when counting shipping) so it's not a question of the value but rather if there will be something else that's a price/performance defying unit in 6 months that lots of people will jump on. I know there's always new stuff coming out but that's not quite what I mean. Some reviews indicate it's a long-term keeper and does things way beyond it's league some imply that it's very nice but not as much of a long-term keeper. 

 What do others think, especially who may have had some former 'FOTM' or price/performance standouts?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess the last thing before I finalize my order is how 'FOTM' is the Compass? Reading reviews it seems to compare to builds up to 3x the price (when counting shipping) so it's not a question of the value but rather if there will be something else that's a price/performance defying unit in 6 months that lots of people will jump on. I know there's always new stuff coming out but that's not quite what I mean. Some reviews indicate it's a long-term keeper and does things way beyond it's league some imply that it's very nice but not as much of a long-term keeper. 

 What do others think, especially who may have had some former 'FOTM' or price/performance standouts?_

 

Only time will tell, I'm afraid. For the moment, it seems that many people agree that it's not possible to find something of similar quality at its price point (certainly not at its current price point). Whether it's a long-term keeper will depend personal taste to a degree (there's no accounting for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ), one the level of equipment you're used to, but mainly on personal financial room and urges of upgraditis. Because of course there's much better to be had. See for example this review for a good idea of where the Compass stands compared to some higher priced equipment.
 Sure, it's a FOTM, perhaps even a FOTY. Sometimes that's justified, sometimes it isn't. I wish I was clairvoyant, but unfortunately that's not the case, but I certainly see me using the Compass for several years to come (office rig).


----------



## MadMan007

Yeah of course no one knows I'm just having my usual last minute cold feet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One thing I like about it is the flexibility - digital w/ USB and analog inputs, preamp function, sound tuning - even if it gets downgraded to a secondary setup or just a DAC it seems worth it, in fact the DAC section seems to be the better part of it?

 I'm going to go for it, I do get upgraditis urges but mostly when I visit forums like this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ignorance is bliss!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess the last thing before I finalize my order is how 'FOTM' is the Compass? Reading reviews it seems to compare to builds up to 3x the price (when counting shipping) so it's not a question of the value but rather if there will be something else that's a price/performance defying unit in 6 months that lots of people will jump on. I know there's always new stuff coming out but that's not quite what I mean. Some reviews indicate it's a long-term keeper and does things way beyond it's league some imply that it's very nice but not as much of a long-term keeper. 

 What do others think, especially who may have had some former 'FOTM' or price/performance standouts?_

 



 Read Zanth's thoughts in this thread for an admin/mod/long time Head Fi member's point of view on it.

 Peete.


----------



## anoobis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess the last thing before I finalize my order is how 'FOTM' is the Compass? Reading reviews it seems to compare to builds up to 3x the price (when counting shipping) so it's not a question of the value but rather if there will be something else that's a price/performance defying unit in 6 months that lots of people will jump on. I know there's always new stuff coming out but that's not quite what I mean. Some reviews indicate it's a long-term keeper and does things way beyond it's league some imply that it's very nice but not as much of a long-term keeper. 

 What do others think, especially who may have had some former 'FOTM' or price/performance standouts?_

 

Well the FOTM contenders that spring to mind are the DACMagic and Little Dot DAC (it will certainly generate a lot of interest and past success indicates it will do well).

 However, neither are direct competitors, having no HP amp. If you want an amp (and the Compass is supposed to be very good) there's your answer, unless you up your budget to buy separates.

 I don't recall a direct comparison of the Compass and the DACMagic but there is evidence that the USB section of the DACMagic is not what it could be. Otherwise, the DACMagic is a strong unit.

 Of course, there are no comparisons with the Little Dot yet.

 If you want balanced, the Compass is out.

 FWIW, I'm led to believe the amp section is the stronger component of the Compass.

 Since you mention flexibility, the Compass is the winner there.

 Finally, I think the general consensus that the Compass is a good buy (both in absolute terms and price/performance) goes beyond FOTM status.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hertz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even though the HDAMs are designed for the Compass, I am a little curious if anyone has ever replaced the discrete HDAM with opamps, such as dual opa627 or dual ad797, etc. Is there any change in the sound quality?_

 

The closest I ever found was the LME49710, which has only a bit less detail than the Earth. Mind you, I don't have an Earth with 600 hours on it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess the last thing before I finalize my order is how 'FOTM' is the Compass? Reading reviews it seems to compare to builds up to 3x the price (when counting shipping) so it's not a question of the value but rather if there will be something else that's a price/performance defying unit in 6 months that lots of people will jump on. I know there's always new stuff coming out but that's not quite what I mean. Some reviews indicate it's a long-term keeper and does things way beyond it's league some imply that it's very nice but not as much of a long-term keeper. 

 What do others think, especially who may have had some former 'FOTM' or price/performance standouts?_

 

I bought a Zero and LD MKV both as FOTM. There is some FOTM factor, but first-time amp/dac buyers who previously have only had sound cards to use are getting a significant improvement, and doing it with a piece of gear that will be long-lasting, unlike the Zero. There are a couple of people who bought them as casual office listening rigs too. I've found I can plug HD-600s in and enjoy listening casually, though I recognise the limitations, especially on tracks which should have a wide soundstage, or ones I know the micro-detail of, or should have more punchy bass. Where the Compass really is great is in the bang-for-buck factor -- you get a lot of kit for your money. I suspect where it will be really at its best is as a pre-amp with the Panther for a speaker rig.

 Incidentally, I've been taken to task by a couple of people over the Zero FAQ being in my signature, as they considered I was "promoting" it, when it was a poor piece of kit. The consequences, however, of me writing the FAQ, was that the traffic in the Zero thread dropped dramatically afterwards, so in effect, a FAQ has the reverse effect of promotion in a sense. With the Compass FAQ too, I've done my best to link to reviews and comparisons, so people can get as much of an idea as possible (though you can't know something just by reading about it, only with experience).


----------



## lordearl

Well after much deliberation I've sold off my old DAC possibly in preparation for getting a Compass. What would be the optimal way to set up the following system;

 Sources: Cambridge 640C, Compass DAC (via USB)
 Amps: NAD C355 integrated, Compass headamp, Compass preamp
 Speakers: Quads, K701 cans

 Would it be best to run the 640C solely into the Compass and use the Compass preamp into the power section of the NAD amp?


----------



## op2003

Did anyone try different opamps like OPA627/LM4562 etc. ?

 Edit: Sorry, just read darkhalos post...


----------



## thelsuman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ALL EARS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hope i am doing this right i still learning to navigate, reply etc. sorry for highjacking i did not know were to tell all how excited i am about this whole
 experience with audio-gd and head-fi forum sorry for the all around newbee mistake please except my apology. 
 All Ears
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Sorry ALLEARS, as it seems you thought my earlier remarks were aimed at you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - I assure you they weren't & I'm sure no one thinks you're "hijacking" the thread. I was referring to another forum here that someone set up to discuss the Audio-gd Panther amp. Unfortunately, after reading through the thread there, most of the posts were written by some fellow who was touting another amp as superior to the Panther (when it turned out he wasn't even speaking from any personal experience) & so not much info on the Panther was to be found 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway- my apologies for the misunderstanding.


----------



## ALL EARS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You'd want a much better DAC than the 0404 to go with the C2C. I usually suggest a DAC19MK3, or second-hand Apogee, Lavry, or Benchmark, Stello or similar. 



 That's why I wrote the FAQ, to save people having to do this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Can I suggest that you review what you've written before posting it and amend it to make it clearer and more readable. For example, break up your writing into shorter sentences. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Will do.


----------



## zeroibis

Mine came in yesterday along with a ton of other stuff I have ordered over the past few weeks. IT was pretty funny to have DHL UPS and Fedex all come in one day lol. By chance yesterday was the day I had schudled to go to the mall to pickup some new music:
 Abbey Road, Bad, Boston Greatest Hits, Mothership, Crash, and Mozart 4 disc Collectors Edition.

 Before leaving I used the compass on super mode with the imod and holy crap it was amazing. I listened to Billie Jean and the sound improvement, as expected, blew my LDMKI out of the water and vaporized the debris. Unfortunately because I am really busy I have not really been able to listen to it a lot at least the type of listening where I can tell you all how it sounds. A big problem is that I am still on my 200+cfm air blaster computer. I am now scrambling to get my silent system up and running this weekend so I can actually hear the great sound from this system. 

 That is not to say I have not some initial thoughts:

 The sound it unbelievably detailed and in gaming it is a MAJOR improvement. In games like Natural Selection witch are extremely dependent on proper locational sound the difference between the compass and the X-FI along with the older creative labs cards and integrated audio is virtually immeasurable. I could hear the sounds coming from the correct 3d location and it was also clear when the sound was on the other side of a wall, below, above, or right next to me. Better sound along with a larger mousepad (hoary) led me to taking the top of the boards during my gaming last night and I can say that a good number of my kills were aided by the compass. 

 On another note my mom was very skeptical of the compass like she is with any really expensive thing I buy (things over lets say $100). She was like now do you really need to spend that much money on this... I said well here listen to Billie Jean witch last week I had played for her on my LDMKI with the imod. She was in a hurry but accepted and took a "quick" listen, and when she took the cans off she said only one thing; Ok, you were right that sounded really good now we got to go.

 When typing that last sentence my mom came in and listened to some more music really fast before we head off to pick up a car from the shop. I asked her about the sound and she said, "Well I do not really know about all this stuff or how to explain it but it just sounds more powerful like you can hear everything. But then again I am like depth anyways." Also when she requested Smooth Criminal and was listening she could not resit dancing around. 

 Well it looks like I am off again and must part with my compass for now...
 20 hours of burn in done 580 left


----------



## les_garten

COMPASS FTW!

 Now that's Funny! Who would have thought, except maybe ScottieB and a few others of course...

 .


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Horse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://redirectingat.com/?id=475X763...distortion.pdf_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Horse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems that my former (bad) impressions of the audio-gd discrete opamps were justified..._

 

I wonder why no one else is commenting on this. It's only been posted for a little while of course but those who have tried IC opamps in the Compass were dissapointed, it's not designed for that of course. but even in other devices, from the Zero to other random pieces of gear, many people prefer or at least like the Audio-gd parts. That doesn't go along with the results from those tests.

 Let's remember tubes show high distortion as well but they sound good to people. Ear test is what matters in the end.


----------



## DoYouRight

Cool that she likes your stuff, my mom is like that and even would listen to crazy counterstrike strats and bs and even ask questions! Something my fiance is like whatever Evan go do something important or fun for both of us. Im hoping the compass will make her understand the reason I spend so much time reading here and about sound science. 

 Moms really are the best woman you'll ever know. The only issue being that we all grow up and move out. And need a woman for more than friendship and understanding. 

 Alas, my dad LOVES my Grado's he usually listens to his iphone on the crappy built in speakers or something and when I brought over my Grado's last weekend he went into the office and turned off all the lights and was just simply emmersed. Later coming out and saying man those headphones are amazing and the best he had ever heard.

 I really want to get him a pair and might get him a pair of SR225s or something. Anymore I think would need an amp right?
 This is why I want to show him my Compass when it arrives, just carrying so much stuff 50 miles is a pair. Oh well Im sure he will be jealous and maybe buy higher end Audio-GD stuff after he finishes refinishing his new boat.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder why no one else is commenting on this. It's only been posted for a little while of course but those who have tried IC opamps in the Compass were dissapointed, it's not designed for that of course. but even in other devices, from the Zero to other random pieces of gear, many people prefer or at least like the Audio-gd parts. That doesn't go along with the results from those tests.

 Let's remember tubes show high distortion as well but they sound good to people. Ear test is what matters in the end._

 

You kinda answered your own question there... this isn't the first time this has come up.


----------



## ecclesand

I just got the Sun HDAM today and popped it in my Compass and fired up my HD650. I have had the HD650 for a couple weeks and was seriously considering returning them under the 30 day return policy because they are just too boring to my ears. This is not surprising considering I really enjoy the Ultrasone house sound. Anyhoo, the Sun HDAM really livened the Senns...gave them some edge that is making me have second thoughts about returning them.

 For those who have the SUN and listen to it regularly <cough>ScottieB<cough> does it mellow out with burn-in? I'm asking because I don't want it to.


----------



## ScottieB

Hey - yeah unfortunately it does mellow out some, but not to the point where it completely changes it (IMO). When you first pop it in it is crazy dynamic and punchy, and this kinda goes away, only to come back - although not to quite the same degree. It is still the most lively and exciting of the three (to my ears) and the one that makes my HD600s the most fun - at the expense of some soundstage (not a huge deal to me).


----------



## zeroibis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder why no one else is commenting on this. It's only been posted for a little while of course but those who have tried IC opamps in the Compass were dissapointed, it's not designed for that of course. but even in other devices, from the Zero to other random pieces of gear, many people prefer or at least like the Audio-gd parts. That doesn't go along with the results from those tests.

 Let's remember tubes show high distortion as well but they sound good to people. Ear test is what matters in the end._

 

I could be wrong but these tests seam to be focused on low voltage tests noting that the writer acts as if 17v is high. Now my LDMKI is around that voltage and that is on batteries! I would expect that the devices such as the compass are using much higher voltages that would dramatically change the sound as the writer suggests (indirectly). Also as we all know things such as the sound stage can really effect how it sounds to us. I do not think there is any electronic way to determine what the soundstage will be without listening to how it sounds. Once again I could be totally wrong but this was what I thought of when reading it.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey - yeah unfortunately it does mellow out some, but not to the point where it completely changes it (IMO). When you first pop it in it is crazy dynamic and punchy, and this kinda goes away, only to come back - although not to quite the same degree. It is still the most lively and exciting of the three (to my ears) and the one that makes my HD600s the most fun - at the expense of some soundstage (not a huge deal to me)._

 

Bummer...I really like the punchiness as it is now. About how long did it take for this to go away and then come back?


----------



## ScottieB

I honestly didn't keep close track of the time, I just remember there being a significant change at one point - like one that made me say "what happened" and then later it was back to sounding more like it had. I think I remember Peete offering some more details about the Sun's "evolution" - or "devolution" he might call it heh...


----------



## karthur

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Horse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems that my former (bad) impressions of the audio-gd discrete opamps were justified..._

 

eh? to each their own. Everywhere I've tried these HDAMs, from Soundcards to DACs the sound has improved. I suppose this distortion must be the secret to why it sounds so good? I wonder what the distortion of my LD MK III would look like? Probably quite distorted, and imho that amp with the right tubes blows away most competition in the price range.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *karthur* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_eh? to each their own. Everywhere I've tried these HDAMs, from Soundcards to DACs the sound has improved. I suppose this distortion must be the secret to why it sounds so good? I wonder what the distortion of my LD MK III would look like? Probably quite distorted, and imho that amp with the right tubes blows away most competition in the price range._

 

Exactly - although there is a lot of science involved in audio, there's also a lot of subjectivity - only looking at one is missing at least half of the picture.


----------



## karthur

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Horse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One should try to put in this DAC the very-new OPA2211. It's the dual version of the OPA211, i.e. the very best single ended audio opamp made by TI/BB._

 

Why? Nothing will sound better than the HDAMs in these amps. You want to know how I know this? Because I've tried audio-gd HDAMs in other places and they sound better than all the other opamps I've tried (and my personal collection is getting quite large). I personally prefer tube amps, so maybe these HDAMs are the closest thing to match that sound signature? I don't know, I've not really ever thought about it or done any real side by side comparisons. Maybe someone else here has better thoughts on this.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *karthur* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why? Nothing will sound better than the HDAMs in these amps. You want to know how I know this? Because I've tried audio-gd HDAMs in other places and they sound better than all the other opamps I've tried (and my personal collection is getting quite large). I personally prefer tube amps, so maybe these HDAMs are the closest thing to match that sound signature? I don't know, I've not really ever thought about it or done any real side by side comparisons. Maybe someone else here has better thoughts on this._

 

I agree with you - and it was not subtle either. I don't have a lot of experience with 'regular' opamps to be fair, but when I first tried the HDAMs (the Audio-GD sun and then earth in the Zero) it was really a night and day difference - for the better - from the stock and the OPA627 I had. Whatever that translates to on paper/in a lab is irrelevant in my opinion - for music, there is no contest.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *karthur* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_eh? to each their own. Everywhere I've tried these HDAMs, from Soundcards to DACs the sound has improved. I suppose this distortion must be the secret to why it sounds so good? I wonder what the distortion of my LD MK III would look like? Probably quite distorted, and imho that amp with the right tubes blows away most competition in the price range._

 

I'm struggling to think of anyone who preferred silicon ICs to the discrete-component HDAMs... A... A.... An.... Aaa-choo! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm struggling to think of anyone who preferred silicon ICs to the discrete-component HDAMs... A... A.... An.... Aaa-choo! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Yeah....there's really only one horse's arse that continually has these cranial cramps on a regular basis.






 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got the Sun HDAM today and popped it in my Compass and fired up my HD650. I have had the HD650 for a couple weeks and was seriously considering returning them under the 30 day return policy because they are just too boring to my ears. This is not surprising considering I really enjoy the Ultrasone house sound. Anyhoo, the Sun HDAM really livened the Senns...gave them some edge that is making me have second thoughts about returning them.

 For those who have the SUN and listen to it regularly <cough>ScottieB<cough> does it mellow out with burn-in? I'm asking because I don't want it to.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I remember having similar thoughts when I picked up my 650's (they were used with only 50 hours on them)...Penchum gave me some sage advice a year and a bit ago. They sound pretty bad until you hit the 250 hour mark so just ignore what your hearing for now (or not) and keep giving them some time. Simple as that.

 As for the SUN module...it loses a grainy quality in the upper mids and the highs refine (from etched to smooth which is a good thing IMO) when run in fully. The SUN does not lose it's punch or core qualities once run in.

 Right now though you have cans that are new, Compass that is new and modules that are new.....you know what I'm about to say....

 Peete.


----------



## punk_guy182

The power button on my compass fell off when I turned it off. how is it suppose to stick? Glue?


----------



## arcer63

One must also wonder if they were using burnt-in Audio-gd hdams. I highly doubt it considering that these are exactly the types that do not believe in burn-in. Did they mention anything regarding this in the text?

 I couldnt find anything


----------



## MadMan007

You're referring to the distortion tests, yeah I thought that too and I highly doubt they were burnt in, I didn't read all the methodology though.


----------



## elbuzzard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if we rate an iPod at 5 and my Northstar at 100, the Nakamichi Dragon DAC gets 120, the Lavry DA-10 and Benchmark DAC 1 come in at 95, the Zero DAC (stock) would be about 60 and the Compass would be an 80._

 

where would the Apogee duet fit in this scale? i found another post of yours where you state that the duet is %95 of the Lavery and the Compass was %90 of the Northstar. Could you please compare the Duet and the Compass to the same DAC? preferably the Lavery which I have heard. Thanks in advance. Ive been reading up on this product and finally pulled the trigger(make room on the bandwagon folks). It was a hard call between the C2C and the Compass since i already have a duet(that I will be keeping for the ADC capabilities) as a nice source. But in the end i decided that the Compass was more useful due to its connectivity to other digital components like my PC laptop, TVs, and CD player. 
 Should I be expecting tracking numbers via email?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elbuzzard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_where would the Apogee duet fit in this scale? i found another post of yours where you state that the duet is %95 of the Lavery and the Compass was %90 of the Northstar. Could you please compare the Duet and the Compass to the same DAC? preferably the Lavery which I have heard. Thanks in advance. Ive been reading up on this product and finally pulled the trigger(make room on the bandwagon folks). It was a hard call between the C2C and the Compass since i already have a duet(that I will be keeping for the ADC capabilities) as a nice source. But in the end i decided that the Compass was more useful due to its connectivity to other digital components like my PC laptop, TVs, and CD player. 
 Should I be expecting tracking numbers via email?_

 

The Duet, with stock cable, had about 95% of the detail of my Lavry. Both are more cold/analytical-sounding. The Northstar is somewhat different, being more detailed than the Lavry, but much softer sounding, especially with a stock power cable. The Compass' DAC with the Sun HDAM has a sound that is closer to the Northstar IMO, so it can seem to be much closer in ability, and the Benchmark 1 can seem to sound better, because it's brighter. So it's not so clear-cut, as different DACs can give quite different impressions when used or compared with different gear.


----------



## haloxt

The giant pdf Horse linked just said the earth and moon were not advisable for "low-distortion" applications. It makes no comment on how good it osunds. I think the distortion was deliberate because even-order harmonic distortions sound good.


----------



## DisgruntledVirus

Order this, or order some 1 TB hd's I've been wanting for a few months..... 

 Being a college student sucks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 lol


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MY QUESTION IS! Why wouldn't he buy in a Wolfson 8740 when it cost's $8 and isn't it better? Than some older AD chip? How hard would it be to pop in the best dac chip you can buy? For a meager $20 tops? Thanks_

 

I was just thinking of this the other day, so I asked Kingwa about it and he had a look at their tech specs. The noise floor is around -80dB in the 8740, but in the AD1852 is below -120dB, and even below 140dB in some cases (see the graphs in their spec sheets). That's 30x higher distortion in the WM8740 than in the AD1852. Kingwa reckons that the 8740 will be audibly inferior as a result.


----------



## sulcata_geo

My Compass was already over 1,000hrs burn-in.
 Setup of my Compass is HDAM Sun V2 without earth wire + bright setting.
 Main headphone is ATH-W5000.

 The sound of Sun V2 without earth wire is more detailed and more airy than Sun V2 with earth wire or HDAM Earth. The treble is not horrible for my ear.

 I've compared Compass DAC>Compass amp and Compass DAC>PS Audio GCHA.
 GCHA is slightly more detailed. But the difference is not so big.


 For me , Compass is good DAC/Headphone amp combo.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sulcata_geo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Compass was already over 1,000hrs burn-in.
 Setup of my Compass is HDAM Sun V2 without earth wire + bright setting.
 Main headphone is ATH-W5000.

 The sound of Sun V2 without earth wire is more detailed and more airy than Sun V2 with earth wire or HDAM Earth. The treble is not horrible for my ear.

 I've compared Compass DAC>Compass amp and Compass DAC>PS Audio GCHA.
 GCHA is slightly more detailed. But the difference is not so big.


 For me , Compass is good DAC/Headphone amp combo._

 

Thanks for the info on the Sun HDAM...very helpful!


----------



## Nidhogg22

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rayk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question, how long is the USB cable that comes with the compass?_

 

About 8ft I would say.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the info on the Sun HDAM...very helpful!_

 

Actually if I am not mistaken, the Sun can be made to sound brighter or softer by changing the Caps, don't know the specifics but you can ask Kingwa..

 I just went through Audio GD website, I think the SUN V2 uses Evox caps which produces softer sound than WIMA caps.. :

  Quote:


 If one only needs to change sound character , the use of 0.01 UF would be OK . But we recommend the use 0.1 UF to 1 UF , in this way we can easily hear the improvements in SQ .
 Not any capacitors can be used for Cap-Mod . Different capacitors will produce different sounds , so the capacitors need to be chosen keeping in mind personal preference . For example:
 WIMA can make it fast , dynamic and clear SQ . but if you want the sound to be warm and thick (textured) , don't use WIMA , in this case, oil- cap will be a better choice .


----------



## MadMan007

So I've placed my order. Are there any major shortcomings to the Compass? The only thing that looks like it is the reports of hum that I've seen in a few posts, did we figure out what that's from?


----------



## punk_guy182

yeah I have a low hum with the preamp output and it is pissing me off. i also notice some distortion when I turn the volume knob in preamp mode.


----------



## haloxt

That distortion from turning the volume knob is normal. Try turning while listening to pink noise or something like that and you will hear extra noise from turning the knob. I hope the hum you are talking about is nothing major, just how loud is it?


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah I have a low hum with the preamp output and it is pissing me off. i also notice some distortion when I turn the volume knob in preamp mode._

 

I've searched the thread and it seems like a few of the reports (not sure by who, maybe you?) were using the preamp out in to powered speakers which is a no-no imo. How are you using yours exactly?

 There's actually only a few reports so I'm not very concerned but it seems to be the only major shortcoming I can find.


----------



## Canuck57

There's no hum when I use the pre-amp (connected to powered Monsoon panel computer speakers)...Dead Quiet! 

 No distortion/noise while turning the volume knob as well.

 Others have mentioned that their compass runs quite warm/hot, mine has been continuously on since May 11 (burning it in) and it's only slightly warm when I place my hand on top of it. 

 Some have questioned if it has enough juice for Senn HD650s. Well a fellow Head-fier & I were listening with 2 pairs of HD650s (Y splitter) and it had NO problem driving both sets of cans!

 My compass currently has approx. 430 hours on it and the sound just keeps on getting better!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've placed my order. Are there any major shortcomings to the Compass? The only thing that looks like it is the reports of hum that I've seen in a few posts, did we figure out what that's from?_

 

Sadly, yes. And they're the cause of major disappointment to me.

 1. 24 hours per day just isn't enough.
 2. There is too much music to enjoy.

 I wish I'd never ordered mine.






 ~Phewl.


----------



## roy_jones

Well, I think I'm going to hop on the bandwagon before the prices go up in June. 

 Only issue for me is method of payment. I don't have paypal, so I guess I'm going to have to use Western Union? I've never used it before, and am concerned about the added cost. Can anyone guess how much it will cost to send a western union from Canada to China?

 I've used MoneyGram before, which is supposed to be cheaper, so hopefully it won't present too much of a problem. If it's 30 bucks or something, I will pass on it, as the extra costs can start to really add up when we're talking about a value unit. 

 I've asked for a quote with an additional HDAM, the Moon, but am a little unsure whether I'll actually use it, as I'm not much of a tweaker. 

 I'm going to be using the compass with Grado cans, probably RS-1's, so any feedback about the most popular HDAM for Grado's would be useful- I've read the reviews, but it's still not that clear to me. 

 Are Grado's a good match with the compass? It seems like most users are pairing the compass with Senns or AKG's....even Denons, but not as many Grado's.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I think I'm going to hop on the bandwagon before the prices go up in June. 

 Only issue for me is method of payment. I don't have paypal, so I guess I'm going to have to use Western Union? I've never used it before, and am concerned about the added cost. Can anyone guess how much it will cost to send a western union from Canada to China?

 I've used MoneyGram before, which is supposed to be cheaper, so hopefully it won't present too much of a problem. If it's 30 bucks or something, I will pass on it, as the extra costs can start to really add up when we're talking about a value unit. 

 I've asked for a quote with an additional HDAM, the Moon, but am a little unsure whether I'll actually use it, as I'm not much of a tweaker. 

 I'm going to be using the compass with Grado cans, probably RS-1's, so any feedback about the most popular HDAM for Grado's would be useful- I've read the reviews, but it's still not that clear to me. 

 Are Grado's a good match with the compass? It seems like most users are pairing the compass with Senns or AKG's....even Denons, but not as many Grado's._

 

I have GS1K, 125, 225, and MS1s. It runs them all beautifully.

 .


----------



## roy_jones

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have GS1K, 125, 225, and MS1s. It runs them all beautifully.

 ._

 

Thank-you very much for the feedback. 

 I've been reading so much about how Grado's (the RS-1 in particular) _need_ a tube amp that it kinda made me wonder. I feel reassured. 

 I've read some seemingly contradictory stuff about the Moon HDAM, it seems that it is marketed as a more "tube-ish" sounding option, but in the reviews I've read, it seems less clear to me that it has those characteristics. 

 I figured I'd add the Moon OPA to my order on the basis of it potentially synergizing with the Grado's, but I'm a very broke audiophile and am hoping to avoid any unnecessary costs/options whenever possible...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank-you very much for the feedback. 

 I've been reading so much about how Grado's (the RS-1 in particular) need a tube amp that it kinda made me wonder. I feel reassured. 

 I've read some seemingly contradictory stuff about the Moon HDAM, it seems that it is marketed as a more "tube-ish" sounding option, but in the reviews I've read, it seems less clear to me that it has those characteristics. 

 I figured I'd add the Moon OPA to my order on the basis of it potentially synergizing with the Grado's, but I'm a very broke audiophile and am hoping to avoid any unnecessary costs/options whenever possible..._

 

Everybody to their own. I didn't like the Moon. My SUN is bad so I can't speak to it. The Moon just seem too dark and non detailed. IMO.

 .


----------



## lordearl

Although it is clearly a subjective matter, would it be a smart idea to start a thread in which we list cans suited to each of Kingwa's opamps? Much of the discussion here revolves around whether one should purchase based on the sound and it's suitability to their cans. The defining component is the opamp, so perhaps people can state (or list in the FAQ) which opamps suit their cans......


----------



## Skorpitarius

My Compass is refusing to put any sound out tonight for some reason . 
 Blue l.e.d. is on, USB cable is connected. Winamp is on via ASIO ...
 Nothing ...
 I restarted p.c. ... still nothing .
 Anyone have any idea What is going on ?!






(


----------



## edselfordfong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only issue for me is method of payment. I don't have paypal, so I guess I'm going to have to use Western Union? I've never used it before, and am concerned about the added cost. Can anyone guess how much it will cost to send a western union from Canada to China?_

 

someone can correct me if I'm wrong about this, but a chinese friend told me that she paid a flat 50 USD to transfer money from the US to China.

 Also, I've had paypal for years, so I can't remember the exact process, but I'm pretty sure that if you have either a normal bank account or a credit card, you can use paypal. You might want to check it out, since it'll probably be cheaper than the wire services.


----------



## zeroibis

Is the computer detecting it? Is it on super mode? Have you tired playing something though the amp only in super mode as a test? Did you have it connected to a surge protector? Is the knob set to USB and not the turn below that, mine for example can make one turn to the left past the USB option. Try unplugging the usb on the computer side with the compass on and then plugging it back in.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skorpitarius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Compass is refusing to put any sound out tonight for some reason . 
 Blue l.e.d. is on, USB cable is connected. Winamp is on via ASIO ...
 Nothing ...
 I restarted p.c. ... still nothing .
 Anyone have any idea What is going on ?!





(_

 

try using direct sound?


----------



## Skorpitarius

UPDATE : 

 I turned it off for awhile (bout half hour) and just powered it back on and its back to normal ... very strange ... maybe it was tired ? Needed a smoke break and a cocktail ??





 In any case, very relieved obviously ...
 Will not be using that high-gain switch setting again ... has something to do with it ?

 It's sounding really good also .... opening up ... more detail .... etcetra, etcetra ...(listening via Sony MDR-SA5000 'phones ...)


----------



## roy_jones

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edselfordfong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_someone can correct me if I'm wrong about this, but a chinese friend told me that she paid a flat 50 USD to transfer money from the US to China.

 Also, I've had paypal for years, so I can't remember the exact process, but I'm pretty sure that if you have either a normal bank account or a credit card, you can use paypal. You might want to check it out, since it'll probably be cheaper than the wire services._

 

I don't doubt you're correct. The problem for me is one of timing...if I want to do this before the first of June, setting up a paypal account is going to be realistic, as I'll have to get confirmation of a bank account, etc...


----------



## haloxt

Skorpitarius, chances are it was entirely due to the computer acting up, nothing wrong with the compass at all. So next time just turn off the compass for 5 seconds and restart it if there's no sound playing, and make sure you close your media player and restart it, maybe even restart your computer. And if none of that works make sure windows hasn't accidentally reverted your default to something other than compass in Start>Control Pnale>Sound>Playback device.

 roy jones, you can pay when it is time to ship the compass which gives you ~2 weeks to set up paypal.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't doubt you're correct. The problem for me is one of timing...if I want to do this before the first of June, setting up a paypal account is going to be realistic, as I'll have to get confirmation of a bank account, etc..._

 


 Paypal can now verify your bank account electronically. So you can have everything set up in a matter of minutes. I don't know where you are from, but that how it is in the US.


----------



## K3cT

I've certainly come a long way in this thread being one of the first to receive the Compass in its 'classic' face plate. 

 Upon endless fiddling, I can safely conclude that the best setting to go with the Compass is Earth and at Neutral jumper settings. The Soft 1 and Soft 2 setting actually introduce etches in the upper-midrange and treble region which I just realized today upon AB-ing the Compass with other amps in a mini-meet. I've also realized that while the Compass presents an unbeatable value, its weakness starts to show when compared to other dedicated headphone amps mainly in transparency and midrange. No worries though, it's really a good step for starters but please realize there are really other better things out there.


----------



## comedian

As you can see below my Compass was passed over to UK customs on the 26th of May, how long does it normally take for it to pass through customs and what courier will it be handed to for the final leg of the delivery process?

 I'm concerned that it has been several days and I've heard nothing, hopefully I'm just being impatient but I like to check these things and don't like not being able to track it's progress.

 Any UK Compass buyers have a similar experience?

 　 
*Your item was handed over to Customs(UNITED KINGDOM COVENTRY PF) at 2009-05-26 20:08:00 

 Timing Site Status
 2009-05-24 13:59:00 GUANGZHOU Posting 
 2009-05-24 14:38:00 GUANGZHOU Despatch from Sorting Center 
 2009-05-24 17:07:00 GUANGZHOU Arrival at Sorting Center 
 2009-05-24 20:14:00 GUANGZHOU Despatch from Sorting Center 
 2009-05-26 20:08:00 UNITED KINGDOM COVENTRY PF Arrival at Sorting Center 
 2009-05-26 20:08:00 UNITED KINGDOM COVENTRY PF Handed over to Customs*


----------



## zeroibis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skorpitarius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_UPDATE : 

 I turned it off for awhile (bout half hour) and just powered it back on and its back to normal ... very strange ... maybe it was tired ? Needed a smoke break and a cocktail ??






 In any case, very relieved obviously ...
 Will not be using that high-gain switch setting again ... has something to do with it ?

 It's sounding really good also .... opening up ... more detail .... etcetra, etcetra ...(listening via Sony MDR-SA5000 'phones ...)




_

 

Like I had suggested it was likely due to a strange usb error. My computer did not read it when I first connected it but after a bit and some unplug and replug actions it detected it. As far as the high gain doing anything, I have used only the high gain setting on my 250ohm DT990 and now have 74Hours burn in. The compass has never been off more than 2min for a system reboot.


----------



## PID

I have read great things about the compass and I'm planning on buying one soon before the price jumps.

 Before I buy I need to know what cables I will need to make this work.I already read the the FAQ and searched the thread but I am still confused(New to Head- Fi).

 -I have a iPod Touch 1G. Can I just use a normal iPod USB to make this work or will I need a 3.5"mm to RCA cable. 

 -Also can I plug in the RCA into the Line In plugs to bypass the DAC and just use the AMP.(I read that in the FAQ, Or am I confused).

 -For the DAC can I just use a USB to connect my laptop to the DAC.

 Thanks in advance to any help


----------



## zeroibis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PID* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have read great things about the compass and I'm planning on buying one soon before the price jumps.

 Before I buy I need to know what cables I will need to make this work.I already read the the FAQ and searched the thread but I am still confused(New to Head- Fi).

 -I have a iPod Touch 1G. Can I just use a normal iPod USB to make this work or will I need a 3.5"mm to RCA cable. 

 -Also can I plug in the RCA into the Line In plugs to bypass the DAC and just use the AMP.(I read that in the FAQ, Or am I confused).

 -For the DAC can I just use a USB to connect my laptop to the DAC.

 Thanks in advance to any help_

 

If you want to use just the amp part then you need to connect an analog input to it via RCA and use the device in super mode. When connected to a computer you can use it in non super mode via USB, Coax or Optical; so that it processes the sound in the DAC and then amps it to your headphones or your speakers ect if using the preamp option. 

 So, for any device that does not have USB output with driver support (if you can plug an external HDD ect into it then it can talk to the compass via USB so all computers should work but not things like phones/mp3 players) or coax/optical output you will need to use the RCA input and then use the device as just an amp in super mode. On your laptop USB, Coax, Optical will work fine as long as you have the connector. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hey, for those interested in clear plexi top I found a place that sells and will custom cut to the needed size for less than $5 this is a great deal! I have not ordered from them before but I think that on Monday I might place an order and get a nice top for my compass: http://www.delviesplastics.com/mm5/m...lic_Sheet_Page


----------



## DoYouRight

coolbeans maybe holes in it to let out heat?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_coolbeans maybe holes in it to let out heat?_

 

I doesn't get very hot. Kingwa didn't want holes because it let's in dust which can cause overheating on individual components coated with dust. The other consideration, albeit most likely insignificant, is that the top is a part of the heat dissipation system.

 .


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *comedian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As you can see below my Compass was passed over to UK customs on the 26th of May, how long does it normally take for it to pass through customs and what courier will it be handed to for the final leg of the delivery process?_

 

This sounds like it has been sent via DHL. If this is the case, you'll have to call them and ask them politely to process your Compass faster. They are notoriously bad when it comes to customs inspections. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PID* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_-I have a iPod Touch 1G. Can I just use a normal iPod USB to make this work or will I need a 3.5"mm to RCA cable._

 

You need the latter. The iPod can't do digital output, except using the Wadia iTransport.

  Quote:


 -Also can I plug in the RCA into the Line In plugs to bypass the DAC and just use the AMP.(I read that in the FAQ, Or am I confused).

 -For the DAC can I just use a USB to connect my laptop to the DAC. 
 

You're not confused, you've got it perfectly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_coolbeans maybe holes in it to let out heat?_

 

The Compass does not have a heat issue and does not need holes. When the case gets warm, it means the heat dissipation is working as it should, as the heat from the components is being passed, as it should, to the case.


----------



## comedian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This sounds like it has been sent via DHL. If this is the case, you'll have to call them and ask them politely to process your Compass faster. They are notoriously bad when it comes to customs inspections._

 

Thanks Currawong, I'll get on to them first thing on Monday morning.


----------



## Aslan123

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sulcata_geo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Compass was already over 1,000hrs burn-in.
 Setup of my Compass is HDAM Sun V2 without earth wire + bright setting.
 Main headphone is ATH-W5000.

 The sound of Sun V2 without earth wire is more detailed and more airy than Sun V2 with earth wire or HDAM Earth. The treble is not horrible for my ear.

 I've compared Compass DAC>Compass amp and Compass DAC>PS Audio GCHA.
 GCHA is slightly more detailed. But the difference is not so big.


 For me , Compass is good DAC/Headphone amp combo._

 

Thanks for the impressions with the ATH-W5000, I was hoping to find some opinions on this combination.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *comedian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As you can see below my Compass was passed over to UK customs on the 26th of May, how long does it normally take for it to pass through customs and what courier will it be handed to for the final leg of the delivery process?

 I'm concerned that it has been several days and I've heard nothing, hopefully I'm just being impatient but I like to check these things and don't like not being able to track it's progress.

 Any UK Compass buyers have a similar experience?

 　 
*Your item was handed over to Customs(UNITED KINGDOM COVENTRY PF) at 2009-05-26 20:08:00 

 Timing Site Status
 2009-05-24 13:59:00 GUANGZHOU Posting 
 2009-05-24 14:38:00 GUANGZHOU Despatch from Sorting Center 
 2009-05-24 17:07:00 GUANGZHOU Arrival at Sorting Center 
 2009-05-24 20:14:00 GUANGZHOU Despatch from Sorting Center 
 2009-05-26 20:08:00 UNITED KINGDOM COVENTRY PF Arrival at Sorting Center 
 2009-05-26 20:08:00 UNITED KINGDOM COVENTRY PF Handed over to Customs*_

 

I can no longer view my tracking information(do they purge it after a while?) But... using DHL, my Compass was shipped on the 20th January(email from Kingwa on the 22nd) At UK Heathrow on the 23rd, and in my hands before 10am on the 26th. 24th and 25th were the weekend.

 I can't see what happened at customs, as I can no longer view my tracking information online. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## punk_guy182

Has anyone tried contacting Audio-GD lately?
 I can't get kingwa or Cherry reply to my emails and answer my questions.


----------



## punk_guy182

*double post*


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried contacting Audio-GD lately?
 I can't get kingwa or Cherry reply to my emails and answer my questions._

 

Wouldn't hurt to let them have off the weekend every once in a while...


 .


----------



## Aslan123

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried contacting Audio-GD lately?
 I can't get kingwa or Cherry reply to my emails and answer my questions._

 

I contacted them yesterday asking about the total price. They replied within 10 minutes.


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aslan123* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I contacted them yesterday asking about the total price. They replied within 10 minutes._

 

That's weird. I sent them emails on the 22nd and today. I'll wait a bit for their reply.


----------



## obentou

^ Looks like you have a similar problem that I had before... did you get an automated reply from them? The first time I emailed them I didn't, and did not receive a reply... second time around though, I got an automated reply and a "real" reply soon after.


----------



## arcer63

So I just started burning in my sun, cant really say much yet, but im not thinking that it sounds lacking on the bass at all. Perhaps that is because I am burning it in with soft-2 jumper settings. and I used bright with the moon(which I just removed).

 Did anyone notice that the compass runs hotter when they first started burning in an hdam?

 I cant wait to hear what this setup has in store for me. (w/ er-4p/s)


----------



## zeroibis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arcer63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did anyone notice that the compass runs hotter when they first started burning in an hdam?_

 

Yes however I have not yet switched mine out but I feel the top every so often and the hottest it has been was in the first 30hours however my room temp varies +-10F.

 90 hours burn in so far


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried contacting Audio-GD lately?
 I can't get kingwa or Cherry reply to my emails and answer my questions._

 

from what i know this week is their public holidays (Dragon boat festival?) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for thurs and fri


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_from what i know this week is their public holidays (Dragon boat festival?) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for thurs and fri_

 

I just got my reply from Kingwa so everything is cool.
 I'm getting the Panther and I'm eager to hear how well it matches with the compass.
 I used to get a ground loop before with my previous amp. He asked me to reconnect some earth wire with soldering. I'll wait and see how it goes with the Panther an if the ground loop goes away. If not, I guess I'll have to find someone in my area who has the equipment and the knowledge.


----------



## zeroibis

With the compass having such a long burn in time I was wondering if anyone is using special software like burninwave when they are not using the compass or if they are just leaving it playing music. Personally I have been burning mine in by running foobar with a bunch of different music. Currently I have burned in 105 hours continuous using this method.


----------



## Skorpitarius

I am playing high-intensity electro-techno through mine day/night for the time being ... and it does seem to be clearing up some ...sounds great as is but it couldn't hurt eh ?


----------



## SoFGR

Do i need tools in order to unplug the ground wire from the pcb so i can switch opamps ? how much wider soundstage am i supposed to get by using MOON instead of earth ?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do i need tools in order to unplug the ground wire from the pcb so i can switch opamps ? how much wider soundstage am i supposed to get by using MOON instead of earth ?_

 

Small Phillips Screwdriver.

 .


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the compass having such a long burn in time I was wondering if anyone is using special software like burninwave when they are not using the compass or if they are just leaving it playing music. Personally I have been burning mine in by running foobar with a bunch of different music. Currently I have burned in 105 hours continuous using this method._

 

I'm playing pink noise through my some of my gear at the moment to burn it in faster. However, I found that the Compass burned in just by leaving it switched on, even with no music playing. I think it has more to do with the components being warm, except headphones and cables of course.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do i need tools in order to unplug the ground wire from the pcb so i can switch opamps ? how much wider soundstage am i supposed to get by using MOON instead of earth ?_

 

Just a regular "phillips" screwdriver is required to change the HDAM. You don't really get more soundstage with the Moon, it's more that the slight EQ changes give the illusion of soundstage. There is what is probably the most epic headphone review ever, here, which explains "headstage" very well.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm playing pink noise through my some of my gear at the moment to burn it in faster. However, I found that the Compass burned in just by leaving it switched on, even with no music playing. I think it has more to do with the components being warm, except headphones and cables of course._

 

Does it really burn in without signal? I have it in my room, and its just too loud to have my computer and headphones running when I'm trying to sleep, so it limits my burn in, but if it actually does something just being on, I may just do that when not sleeping! Thanks!


----------



## Monkeypillow

I had intended to order a Compass today, but the promotional pricing is no longer in effect. I forgot to take time differences in to account when planning to order. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've sent Audio-GD an email regarding the situation. Hopefully, they'll let me get it at the introductory price, but I understand if they won't.


----------



## DoYouRight

that would suck if timechange messed up your special monkey good luck!


----------



## jlaakso

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the compass having such a long burn in time I was wondering if anyone is using special software like burninwave when they are not using the compass or if they are just leaving it playing music. Personally I have been burning mine in by running foobar with a bunch of different music. Currently I have burned in 105 hours continuous using this method._

 

Pink noise from computer. It's supposed to speed up the process since you will be feeding wide band signal to the equipment. I am not a believer in burning in but I am supersticiuos enough to go through the process 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyhow, I pulled the trigger couple of weeks ago. One week lead time, one week for shipping and customs. Now the compass has been burning in for a week. I haven't listened to it carefully, but it sounds good. It is not as analytical as my GS Novo, but actually I find Compass more involving and easy to listen for longer periods of time. I am burning it in with soft2 setting which does not go well with Senn HD600s, it sounds a bit muffled. with neutral or bright, it sounds much better.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Monkeypillow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had intended to order a Compass today, but the promotional pricing is no longer in effect. I forgot to take time differences in to account when planning to order. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've sent Audio-GD an email regarding the situation. Hopefully, they'll let me get it at the introductory price, but I understand if they won't._

 

Well, I hope he takes the time difference into consideration, Yes I see the promo price is over, but as an incentive, apart from the default Earth Opamp, One Moon Opamp is included free, but this offer only for this month (June), thats what the website says..


----------



## MadMan007

Hey, a free Moon isn't bad if you were planning on getting one, rather than $70 more it's about $45 more.


----------



## Monkeypillow

Looks like I missed out. Still seems to be a good price on a great piece of equipment. I'll put some graduation money towards it.

 I've already got some HD595s that I plan to pair with this. Any other headphones I should look into for video games?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Monkeypillow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like I missed out. Still seems to be a good price on a great piece of equipment. I'll put some graduation money towards it.

 I've already got some HD595s that I plan to pair with this. Any other headphones I should look into for video games?_

 

The Beyerdynamic DT880 and the Audio-technica ATH-AD700 are considered very good "game 'phones". (I think the DT880 in particular are just perfect for the job.) And who knows, you may end up liking them with music too.


----------



## Optional

Got my tracking number today! Super excited for it! My iPod Classic 120gb comes later today as well, I've got a ton of ALAC ripped just for this, yay!


----------



## rayk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Monkeypillow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like I missed out. Still seems to be a good price on a great piece of equipment. I'll put some graduation money towards it.

 I've already got some HD595s that I plan to pair with this. Any other headphones I should look into for video games?_

 

Like Drosera said, AD700s are very good - but since you are getting the compass why not stretch the budget to AD900s?

 Mine is apparently being shipped this week, super excited! Still haven't found out how long the USB cable is that comes with it (not sure if the spot I have for it will be close enough to reach the pc).


----------



## darkhalo

Does anyone have a clue about the type and capacity of these 4 brown caps?
 Not looking to start a DIY discussion in this thread.

 My guess: Metallized Polypropylene 700pF? (but seems like an odd number)
 I could be way off. Any ideas?


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkhalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have a clue about the type and capacity of these 4 brown caps?
 Not looking to start a DIY discussion in this thread.

 My guess: Metallized Polypropylene 700pF? (but seems like an odd number)
 I could be way off. Any ideas?_

 

Ask Kingwa?


----------



## SoFGR

how stupid of me, yea all i needed was a screwdriver, didn't see the bolt thought the cable was soldered or something, anyway time to burn in moon


----------



## Denaturat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skorpitarius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_UPDATE : 

 I turned it off for awhile (bout half hour) and just powered it back on and its back to normal ... very strange ... maybe it was tired ? Needed a smoke break and a cocktail ??





 In any case, very relieved obviously ...
 Will not be using that high-gain switch setting again ... has something to do with it ?

 It's sounding really good also .... opening up ... more detail .... etcetra, etcetra ...(listening via Sony MDR-SA5000 'phones ...)




_

 

Now, that you have mentioned it, someting similar happened to me as well. I wanted to switch to preamp but reached to the gain switch and switched to high - from then on, there was no USB communication at all and when I switched the unit off, the blue power LED dimmed but was still on (repeated several times with the same effect). Disconecting the power cable for a while solved the issue. I wasn't able to repro this bug since - gain switch is again working as intended. Weird...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denaturat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now, that you have mentioned it, someting similar happened to me as well. I wanted to switch to preamp but reached to the gain switch and switched to high - from then on, there was no USB communication at all and when I switched the unit off, the blue power LED dimmed but was still on (repeated several times with the same effect). Disconecting the power cable for a while solved the issue. I wasn't able to repro this bug since - gain switch is again working as intended. Weird..._

 

Did you shut down before switching the gain switch?

 .


----------



## Denaturat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you shut down before switching the gain switch?
 ._

 

No, I did not, should I?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denaturat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I did not, should I?_

 

Well, I think you are lucky you didn't Blow the amp. The Gain switch "looks" like it adds a resister in series or switches resisters, or switches two different circuits. I would *"CAUTION" *against doing this while powered up. I didn't design the circuit, I just traced the switch to the amp board. All other amps like this one(Discrete), you change gain with a resister or two. So switching the circuit while it's hot seems dangerous. This should be clarified to be sure and the answer from the Guru in FoShan should be posted here and on his website. If he says it's OK, it's OK. 

 So in hind site, how proximal were your problems to your switching of the gain? Did you flip the switch and start having problems pretty much immediately??

 .


----------



## sandchak

OT.

 I think Kingwa finally (after 2years) finalized the USB/COAX/Optical converter board, should be on sale in a months time. This one's really useful for guys like me who spend most of the time on PC or even someone using a not so good transport.. it uses the same chip as REF one but different software only for conversion (DSP3). As far as I know it has 1 USB, 1 Coax BNC, One Optical and 1 Coax RCA Input. Output is 1 Coax BNC and 1 RCA and can be set at 48/96/192K..


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OT.

 I think Kingwa finally (after 2years) finalized the USB/COAX/Optical converter board, should be on sale in a months time. This one's really useful for guys like me who spend most of the time on PC or even someone using a not so good transport.. it uses the same chip as REF one but different software only for conversion (DSP3). As far as I know it has 1 USB, 1 Coax BNC, One Optical and 1 Coax RCA Input. Output is 1 Coax BNC and 1 RCA and can be set at 48/96/192K.._

 

Finally 

 But from the pcb, this will be rather big and expensive


----------



## Denaturat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So in hind site, how proximal were your problems to your switching of the gain? Did you flip the switch and start having problems pretty much immediately??_

 

Exactly, once I switched it, the playback stopped and Compass started behaving as described earlier. My guess was that it wasn't posing any danger since Kingwa had never warned of it (At least I don't remember to have come across such notice), besides, I thought that all Compass' external switches can be safely operated when turned on. Hmm, interesting.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally 

 But from the pcb, this will be rather big and expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Seems to me Compass size and I estimate the price around USD500 (just a guess..)..


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems to me Compass size and I estimate the around USD500 (just a guess..)..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

i am browsing through their Chinese forum

 and i can see a few of them are already ordering


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am browsing through their Chinese forum

 and i can see a few of them are already ordering 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Strange, since the price hasn't been fixed as yet..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denaturat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly, once I switched it, the playback stopped and Compass started behaving as described earlier. My guess was that it wasn't posing any danger since Kingwa had never warned of it (At least I don't remember to have come across such notice), besides, I thought that all Compass' external switches can be safely operated when turned on. Hmm, interesting._

 

Yeah, I'm betting that switch rewires it on the fly while it's hot. IMHO that would be a bad thing...

 .


----------



## haloxt

Any thoughts on how much it improves usb sound quality?


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any thoughts on how much it improves usb sound quality?_

 

not too sure about the quality

 but this will enable usb to overcome the 16/48 constraint






 will be beneficial if u are listening to higher bit rate music file..


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any thoughts on how much it improves usb sound quality?_

 

Any thoughts on how it actually works??


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any thoughts on how much it improves usb sound quality?_

 

As far as my communications with Kingwa sometime back, he feels the converter should sound as good as his CD3 (2007) now discontinued.. if that is true than it is a significant improvement.. I have the CD7, so I have heard the difference personally..

  Quote:


 Any thoughts on how it actually works?? 
 

You know me well my friend.. I have no clues..


----------



## wdoerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I think you are lucky you didn't Blow the amp. The Gain switch "looks" like it adds a resister in series or switches resisters, or switches two different circuits. I would *"CAUTION" *against doing this while powered up. I didn't design the circuit, I just traced the switch to the amp board. All other amps like this one(Discrete), you change gain with a resister or two. So switching the circuit while it's hot seems dangerous. This should be clarified to be sure and the answer from the Guru in FoShan should be posted here and on his website. If he says it's OK, it's OK. 

 So in hind site, how proximal were your problems to your switching of the gain? Did you flip the switch and start having problems pretty much immediately??

 ._

 

This cannot be true, but if it is:
 Wow! What a monumental flaw. This design error will bite Audio-gd in the butt.
 Did anyone know of this? It's going to affect decicisions on purchasing, and make existing owners mad.
 Guess I'll just put some tape over the switch and pretend it doesn't exist.


----------



## haloxt

o_O interesting, just half an hour ago I thought I'd be perfectly happy with my mp3 player's optical output for the next few years. How can you do this to me audio-gd -_-.

 wdoerr, just wait to see what Kingwa says. I'm pretty sure it's fine because I don't think audio-gd would ever allow customers to damage their gear by not telling them something as simple as switching it off before switching gain.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This cannot be true, but if it is:
 Wow! What a monumental flaw. This design error will bite Audio-gd in the butt.
 Did anyone know of this? It's going to affect decicisions on purchasing, and make existing owners mad.
 Guess I'll just put some tape over the switch and pretend it doesn't exist._

 

I really don't see this as a big issue, other than the user/buyer should be told this on the Website. I understand not everyone builds or does DIY. So most would not instinctively know to shut down. The worst I can say for this is that it is an oversight. I'm sure Kingwa probably thinks this is obvious, and it is to amp builders. YMMV. Some things are obvious to some people these same things are not so obvious to others.

 An oversight, that's all.

 .


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 wdoerr, just wait to see what Kingwa says. I'm pretty sure it's fine because I don't think audio-gd would ever allow customers to damage their gear by not telling them something as simple as switching it off before switching gain._

 

I would suggest the same, wait for a few hours and lets hear from him.. as far as my recollection goes, I think Kingwa wrote to me sometime back and said the in the upgraded version the gain was controlled by a relay, so I dont think it needs to be powered off (I can be wrong though).. anways, lets wait and see what he has to say..


----------



## comedian

Quick update if anyone's interested, seems that my Compass has been released from customs and should now go to the courier. Whoever that's going to be.

 I really can't bear the waiting anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





*Your item was released from Customs(UNITED KINGDOM COVENTRY TRA) at 2009-05-31 20:37:00
 　
 Timing Site Status
 2009-05-24 13:59:00 GUANGZHOU Posting 
 2009-05-24 14:38:00 GUANGZHOU Despatch from Sorting Center 
 2009-05-24 17:07:00 GUANGZHOU Arrival at Sorting Center 
 2009-05-24 20:14:00 GUANGZHOU Despatch from Sorting Center 
 2009-05-26 20:08:00 UNITED KINGDOM COVENTRY PF Arrival at Sorting Center 
 2009-05-26 20:08:00 UNITED KINGDOM COVENTRY PF Handed over to Customs 
 2009-05-31 20:37:00 UNITED KINGDOM COVENTRY TRA Released from Customs*


----------



## obentou

Yep, I should be expecting my Compass sometime tomorrow. I hope it works, lol.


----------



## Skorpitarius

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This cannot be true, but if it is:
 Wow! What a monumental flaw. This design error will bite Audio-gd in the butt.
 Did anyone know of this? It's going to affect decicisions on purchasing, and make existing owners mad.
 Guess I'll just put some tape over the switch and pretend it doesn't exist._

 

My Compass went haywire a few nights ago because i'd had it flipped onto the higher-gain part of the switch . No sound for awhile then wouldn't go into the opposite gain setting if I powered it off even .
 Seems to be back to normal tho now .... I don't understand E.E. but that seems strange to me . shrug .

 Hoping I didn't fry/damage anything internally with all of that . 
 I will say, it is sounding reallllllyyyyy good today after what is probably 300 hours' burn-in time with it being powered on pretty much 24/7 since I recieved it with electronic music playing through it ...

 I just wish I could play 24 bit or higher, through it and not be limited to 16 bits.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This cannot be true, but if it is:
 Wow! What a monumental flaw. This design error will bite Audio-gd in the butt.
 Did anyone know of this? It's going to affect decicisions on purchasing, and make existing owners mad.
 Guess I'll just put some tape over the switch and pretend it doesn't exist._

 

OMG.....stop being an knee jerk reactionary for 5 minutes and think before you post...can you do that ?

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skorpitarius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Compass went haywire a few nights ago because i'd had it flipped onto the higher-gain part of the switch . No sound for awhile then wouldn't go into the opposite gain setting if I powered it off even .
 Seems to be back to normal tho now .... I don't understand E.E. but that seems strange to me . shrug .

 Hoping I didn't fry/damage anything internally with all of that . 
 I will say, it is sounding reallllllyyyyy good today after what is probably 300 hours' burn-in time with it being powered on pretty much 24/7 since I recieved it with electronic music playing through it ...

 I just wish I could play 24 bit or higher, through it and not be limited to 16 bits._

 

I'm sure you're fine, "I" don't switch mine that way though.

 .


----------



## panxut2004

Today I've received my Compass. Good build quality. Still getting used to it. Now burn-in with Earth and neutral mode. Not many hours on it at the moment...We'll see how the sound changes with time. At the moment, it seems to me it makes a good couple with the Senns HD650. I've had valves amps before, so still need to get used to this new sound.


----------



## noxlord

My Compass will be shipped Thursday. Presently, I have a pair of ATH-AD700 and I plan on getting new cans by the end on July to couple with my first dac-amp.
 I am looking for HD600 at 230$new. I still have not decided if I want the HD600, the K701 or others. HD650 seems a bit expensive for me and so are the HF-2.


----------



## MadMan007

Re: switching the gain, I too would be surprised if it needed to be powered off to do this since Kingwa warns of that for the sound shaping jumpers but not for anything else. I hope he doesn't just assume users will power it off. It looks like it controls input on the HA board, you'd hope that it would be fine to change as long as there's no signal running through it but maybe it's not good to change if it's powered on. Maybe switching to Super Mode to disconnect the DAC and HA would be good?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OT.

 I think Kingwa finally (after 2years) finalized the USB/COAX/Optical converter board, should be on sale in a months time. This one's really useful for guys like me who spend most of the time on PC or even someone using a not so good transport.. it uses the same chip as REF one but different software only for conversion (DSP3). As far as I know it has 1 USB, 1 Coax BNC, One Optical and 1 Coax RCA Input. Output is 1 Coax BNC and 1 RCA and can be set at 48/96/192K.._

 

What's this for? A new DAC or DIY? I hope it's not for a 'Compass v2' so soon after the original heh. Looks like that setup is a rectifier/power board, DAC board, and power cupply board going clockwise, similar to the DAC-200. Of course it also looks like the DAC-200 and Compass use the same DAC board.


----------



## Sesonic

How many hours do you need to burn in jumpers in soft2 setting so that all jumper settings are burned in sufficiently, tried searching thread and faq but couldn't see this mentioned anywhere?

 Thanks


----------



## doping panda

About switching the gain switch issue, it's perfectly fine to flip the gain switch while the Compass is on. At the very least, the newer Compasses should be okay.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sesonic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How many hours do you need to burn in jumpers in soft2 setting so that all jumper settings are burned in sufficiently, tried searching thread and faq but couldn't see this mentioned anywhere?

 Thanks_

 

I emailed Kingwa about this when I got my Compass. He said I should burn in the settings for 400 hours.

 Anyways, burning in the Moon right now on soft-2. I should almost be done burning in soft-2 if I'm not already done. I asked my friend to burn in my Compass over the Memorial Day weekend because I was out of town so I don't know how many hours he put on it. I've been busier lately so I haven't had much time for critical listening, but I don't think I like the Moon as much as the Earth. The Moon is stiill burning in, but right now I feel that the Earth is much better than the Moon in extension, imaging, dynamics, and "correctness". Now, "correctness" is purely subjective, but I do feel the Earth sounds more "right" than the Moon.


----------



## zeroibis

So does this new board only effect quality over USB so that you can get 24bit over that too, or does the current model only support 16bit for optical as well. Currently my computer has to use usb but I plan to use optical on my new one that has optical stock in the motherboard. Will using optical give me 24bit? 

 Also, this pink noise burns it in faster!? I guess I should use that when I am not using the compass... how much faster is it?

 132 Hour mark!1


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I think you are lucky you didn't Blow the amp. The Gain switch "looks" like it adds a resister in series or switches resisters, or switches two different circuits. I would *"CAUTION" *against doing this while powered up. I didn't design the circuit, I just traced the switch to the amp board. All other amps like this one(Discrete), you change gain with a resister or two. So switching the circuit while it's hot seems dangerous. This should be clarified to be sure and the answer from the Guru in FoShan should be posted here and on his website. If he says it's OK, it's OK. 

 So in hind site, how proximal were your problems to your switching of the gain? Did you flip the switch and start having problems pretty much immediately??

 ._

 

Frankly, this is BS. If it were the case that it was bad to switch it, then turning the volume up suddenly in the amp would be dangerous. The volume control is a gain switch too, remember?

 For everyone's satisfaction, I plugged in a pair of headphones and, with music playing, flipped the gain switch 20 times with no ill effects. The only possible reason that the music might cut out flipping the switch would be if the switch was faulty.

 To repeat, _*you can flip the gain switch whenever you like, amp on or off, with no ill effects*_. I don't need to even confirm this with Kingwa, I'm 100% sure of it.


----------



## ezzieyguywuf

Does the amp come with a manual in english? I want to be sure I know how to use it properly when I get it. Also, I emailed them today (because the website says that international customers should email before buying) and have not heard back yet. What is your guys' turnaround with emails from this company?
 Thanks.


----------



## MadMan007

They are ~+12 hours from the continental US (exact amount depends upon your time zone) so when you email them during the day it's night there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You will probably get replies overnight, my replies were between roughly 8PM EST and 6 AM EST.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ezzieyguywuf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the amp come with a manual in english? I want to be sure I know how to use it properly when I get it. Also, I emailed them today (because the website says that international customers should email before buying) and have not heard back yet. What is your guys' turnaround with emails from this company?
 Thanks._

 

The inside of the top panel has instructions on how to use the unit, place in the jumpers, change the HDAM, and general precautions. Well, you need to take into account the time difference. It's about 9 AM where Kingwa is right now. I'm sure he or Cherry will reply soon if they got the message. Did you get the auto reply email? If you didn't, then that means that audio-gd didn't get your email.


----------



## ezzieyguywuf

I did not get an auto-reply!!!! audio-gd@123.com right? 

 Oh, and what exactly are these jumpers? I am a total amp-virgin so I don't know all that much about them.


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, I should be expecting my Compass sometime tomorrow. I hope it works, lol._

 

I see you got the K701 now! Do you have those on hold until the Compass shows up or are you amping it with something meanwhile? (I'm asking since I think you sold your D10 already).

 Looking forward to your review with the compass.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Frankly, this is BS. If it were the case that it was bad to switch it, then turning the volume up suddenly in the amp would be dangerous. The volume control is a gain switch too, remember?

 For everyone's satisfaction, I plugged in a pair of headphones and, with music playing, flipped the gain switch 20 times with no ill effects. The only possible reason that the music might cut out flipping the switch would be if the switch was faulty.

 To repeat, *you can flip the gain switch whenever you like, amp on or off, with no ill effects*. I don't need to even confirm this with Kingwa, I'm 100% sure of it._

 

 Volume controls do nothing to gain. The are connected "usually"(Kingwa has a spin on this with the Compass) to the INPUTs at the back of the gear. Outside of the amplification circuit. The signal comes in at a certain level and the Volume Control at max volume has no effect on the signal. If you turn the Vol down, ie to the left, it attenuates the signal at the inputs. It is a smooth continuously variable resister change. Some stepped attenuators are resister ladders, and poorly constructed ones have problems switching resisters and produce pops, loud ones. But these are outside the amplification circuit.

 To change Gain settings on an amp, like for instance, the B22, you change a few resisters in each channel, these resisters are located right in the middle of the amplification circuit. Seems prudent to not rewire the circuit on the fly.

 There are now two anecdotal reports of this switch, while the system is hot, causing problems. 

 I'll reiterate what I said before. 

 1) Let's ask Kingwa
 2) I don't do it that way

 .


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ezzieyguywuf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did not get an auto-reply!!!! audio-gd@123.com right? 

 Oh, and what exactly are these jumpers? I am a total amp-virgin so I don't know all that much about them._

 

It's audio-gd@126.com





 Did you typo it here or in the email you sent? As for the jumpers, check out the beginning of this thread and the aduio-gd site description first then come back with questions. In a nutshell they let you slightly tune the headphone amp sound output.


----------



## ezzieyguywuf

Typoed it here, not in the email. I've sent two emails and still haven't gotten an auto-reply.


----------



## Currawong

When I sent an email earlier, it said the server was refusing connections, so I think their email/web provider is (unfortunately as usual) having issues.


----------



## j2kei

my gmail gave me trouble sending email to audio-gd, however hotmail was no problem.


----------



## squall343

My hotmail is giving me problem

 when sending email to audio-gd, it will give a "Delivery Status Notification (Delay)‏"


----------



## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My hotmail is giving me problem

 when sending email to audio-gd, it will give a "Delivery Status Notification (Delay)‏" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I got the same thing. A 12 hour delay.


----------



## sandchak

Here is what I received from Kingwa on the Gain switch issue :

  Quote:


 Dear Sandeep,
 No, don't need power off the Compass.
 Change the gain switch can't shatter the Compass.
 It also can't shatter the headphone, if the Compass sense some thing maybe will shatter the headphone, it will shut down the output, then the headphone will be safe. You can try this in your Compass, their will be fine always, I also test change the gain switch very lot times while playing.
 Kingwa

 在2009-06-02，"Sandeep Chakraborty" <sandchak@gmail.com> 写道：

 Hi Kingwa..

 When change gain in Compass, do user have to switch off the gear??..


 Thank you
 Sandeep


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is what I received from Kingwa on the Gain switch issue :_

 

Well here ya go, words from the Guru himself. Guess these guys got something else wrong then.

 .


----------



## ezzieyguywuf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the same thing. A 12 hour delay._

 

I've just sent another email from my squirrelmail account. Still no autoreply though. I really just want to buy this thing to try out with my new D2000s... Hope a made a good headphone choice!


----------



## sandchak

Those having problems sending email to kingwa, send your mails at this address :

  Quote:


 king-wa@hotmail.com


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ezzieyguywuf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just sent another email from my squirrelmail account. Still no autoreply though. I really just want to buy this thing to try out with my new D2000s... Hope a made a good headphone choice!



_

 

Sounds killer with my D5000s.

 .


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the same thing. A 12 hour delay._

 

definitely a problem with the email

 i only got a auto reply 3 days after my email


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drosera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ask Kingwa?_

 

Nah, I don't want to pull Kingwa into it. Besides, I don't have enough knowledge to talk to Kingwa about these things.

 But looking at the datasheet for the AD1852 I reckon 700pF is about a good enough ballbark figure. Couple OS-CONS, couple WIMAs, couple Cerafines would maybe do the trick.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkhalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nah, I don't want to pull Kingwa into it. Besides, I don't have enough knowledge to talk to Kingwa about these things._

 

You seem to be knowledgeable enough. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I just suggested it, because Kingwa doesn't seem too secretive about his designs (or at all) and encourages feedback from DIY experiments.


----------



## Denaturat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well here ya go, words from the Guru himself. Guess these guys got something else wrong then.

 ._

 

In my case it was the gain switch, no doubt about it. 
 Whatever, everything is working fine now, including that switch, so no issue.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denaturat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In my case it was the gain switch, no doubt about it. 
 Whatever, everything is working fine now, including that switch, so no issue._

 


 Strange!

 I also always lower the Volume Control when unplugging the Headphones too, must be superstition!

 .


----------



## samspotting

I just got my compass at work right now, I am wondering when I get home what should I do with the preamp to my active speakers? Should I turn my speakers to max and control them with my compass? (audioengine a5)


----------



## comedian

I have a quick question, during the burn in process does it matter whether you alternate between optical and usb?

 My main pc is pretty power hungry and I don't want to leave it on all the time, whereas I have a low powered laptop that I can hook up with asio4all and a usb cable for the burn in when I'm at work.


----------



## haloxt

I asked that a long time ago, Peete told me it's okay which input you use.


----------



## PID

I have a quick question

 If I use a ibasso line out adapter like this one
iBasso

 then plug the 3.5"mm end of a 3.5"mm to RCA into the adapter, then plug the RCA end into the Line in section of the compass will this work.


----------



## Aleatoris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PID* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a quick question

 If I use a ibasso line out adapter like this one
iBasso

 then plug the 3.5"mm end of a 3.5"mm to RCA into the adapter, then plug the RCA end into the Line in section of the compass will this work._

 

Sure it'd work. But why are you doing such a thing? What is the other end of your adapter connected to? Are you using another DAC instead of the compass's on-board?


----------



## PID

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aleatoris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure it'd work. But why are you doing such a thing? What is the other end of your adapter connected to? Are you using another DAC instead of the compass's on-board?_

 

No, the other end would we connected to a ipod.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PID* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, the other end would we connected to a ipod._

 

Still begs the question what do you need the iBasso for? You can easily make RCA adapter from your iPod to the Compass.


----------



## PID

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still begs the question what do you need the iBasso for? You can easily make RCA adapter from your iPod to the Compass._

 

I have a 3.5"mm to RCA cable. So the ibasso would do nothing for me? I thought it would improve the sound. I guess I don't need it.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PID* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a 3.5"mm to RCA cable. So the ibasso would do nothing for me? I thought it would improve the sound. I guess I don't need it._

 


 I don't know. But this is what you are suggesting.

 Your music file:

 Processed by the Wolfsen D/A in the iPod and then amplified by your iPod. Then it goes to your iBasso. Gets processed by another Wolfsen D/A and amplified again. Then you send it to the Compass. Processed by the AD1852 D/A and then Amplified for a 3rd time.

 Try it and see if it improved the sound. Also if you don't, I'd probably go with the line out to RCA adapter to Compass direct from the iPod.


----------



## PID

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know. But this is what you are suggesting.

 Your music file:

 Processed by the Wolfsen D/A in the iPod and then amplified by your iPod. Then it goes to your iBasso. Gets processed by another Wolfsen D/A and amplified again. Then you send it to the Compass. Processed by the AD1852 D/A and then Amplified for a 3rd time.

 Try it and see if it improved the sound. Also if you don't, I'd probably go with the line out to RCA adapter to Compass direct from the iPod._

 

Thanks, for the input I am just going to use my 3.5"mm to RCA cable direct from my iPod to the compass's line in port.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PID* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, for the input I am just going to use my 3.5"mm to RCA cable direct from my iPod to the compass's line in port._

 

There's another option you might want to consider, if not now maybe for the future. The Headphone jack o the iPod I believe goes through an additional amplification stage. I have a Monster Dock cable that does RCA out, as well as Video. It is Fixed line level. It does not vary with the Vol control on the iPod. Or see if you can borrow one to A/B against your headphone Jack out.

 I use this as a portable test source.


----------



## obentou

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see you got the K701 now! Do you have those on hold until the Compass shows up or are you amping it with something meanwhile? (I'm asking since I think you sold your D10 already).

 Looking forward to your review with the compass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Yep I trade the K701 for the D10 actually, with a bit of cash incentive on top from the other guy. 

 To be honest, I don't even know if the K701 works since I haven't plugged it into anything since receiving it lol. It didn't come with the 1/4 to 1/8 adapter so it's just sitting on my shelf for now.

 However, it will be getting plenty of use once my Compass arrives... probably tomorrow, since it didn't come today. I will be sure to inspect it for possible damage since I requested the Cherry girl to mark my package down to like 50 bucks to avoid customs fees. They only allowed it if I took responsibility for the package's safety.

 Can't promise much on the review though, it will be something along the lines of "sounds good" with a bit of embellishments here and there haha.


----------



## PID

So les garten, you are suggesting a cable that connects to iPod directly, but not through the headphone jack, and has RCA on the other end.

 Thanks to everyone for telling me I did not need the ibasso, I am still new to all this and you just saved me about 40 quid.


----------



## PID

Double Post


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PID* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So les garten, you are suggesting a cable that connects to iPod directly, but not through the headphone jack, and has RCA on the other end.

 Thanks to everyone for telling me I did not need the ibasso, I am still new to all this and you just saved me about 40 quid._

 

Yes, that's what I have. There may be cheap ones out there, maybe at Griffith or elsewhere. It connects to the DOCK and has RCAs and Composite Video. I use it to troubleshoot because it's an RCA source I can carry around.

 Here's an example

AV Video Cable for Apple iPod Nano iPhone 3G w/USB V2.2 - eBay (item 220426356577 end time Jun-02-09 16:10:11 PDT)

 I'm not saying that one in particular, you may want to browse around and find a better one.

 .


----------



## laobrasuca

sorry if the answer to this question has been given by someone's post in the past but I cannot read all pages back. So, here's the question: what's the opamps in the hp/pre amp of the compass (I'm not talking about the HMDA in the DAC section, ofc)?

 thx, lao


----------



## PID

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, that's what I have. There may be cheap ones out there, maybe at Griffith or elsewhere. It connects to the DOCK and has RCAs and Composite Video. I use it to troubleshoot because it's an RCA source I can carry around.

 Here's an example

AV Video Cable for Apple iPod Nano iPhone 3G w/USB V2.2 - eBay (item 220426356577 end time Jun-02-09 16:10:11 PDT)

 I'm not saying that one in particular, you may want to browse around and find a better one.

 ._

 

Thanks you helped me out a lot, and now I know what I need to buy.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your music file:

 Processed by the Wolfsen D/A in the iPod and then amplified by your iPod. Then it goes to your iBasso. Gets processed by another Wolfsen D/A and amplified again. Then you send it to the Compass. Processed by the AD1852 D/A and then Amplified for a 3rd time._

 

There is only one D/A conversion, not three, that's impossible. The iPod's DA would convert, then the rest of the signal would be analogue. The iBasso would just be another unnecessary amp in the chain.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laobrasuca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry if the answer to this question has been given by someone's post in the past but I cannot read all pages back. So, here's the question: what's the opamps in the hp/pre amp of the compass (I'm not talking about the HMDA in the DAC section, ofc)?

 thx, lao_

 

There are no opamps in the HP amp/pre. It's all discrete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laobrasuca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry if the answer to this question has been given by someone's post in the past but I cannot read all pages back. So, here's the question: what's the opamps in the hp/pre amp of the compass (I'm not talking about the HMDA in the DAC section, ofc)?

 thx, lao_

 

There are none...

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PID* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks you helped me out a lot, and now I know what I need to buy._

 

Have FUN!!

 .


----------



## invisiman

Did any of you guys get an autoreply/confirmation from Audio-GD when you sent payment? Paypal says the payment was received, but I was wondering what I should expect in terms of communication from them at this point.


----------



## laobrasuca

thx Currawong and les_garten, I was wondering


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *invisiman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did any of you guys get an autoreply/confirmation from Audio-GD when you sent payment? Paypal says the payment was received, but I was wondering what I should expect in terms of communication from them at this point._

 

I think you need to email them that you send them money.

 Or else they may not know


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really don't see this as a big issue, other than the user/buyer should be told this on the Website. I understand not everyone builds or does DIY. So most would not instinctively know to shut down. The worst I can say for this is that it is an oversight. I'm sure Kingwa probably thinks this is obvious, and it is to amp builders. YMMV. Some things are obvious to some people these same things are not so obvious to others.

 An oversight, that's all.

 ._

 

I dont have any experience building amps but I assumed this as well. It seems to me that one would want to shut down or lower the volume all the way when changing something that will have a large impact on the output. For the same reason people lower the volume or power down when changing headphones. That is what people do, isnt it?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arcer63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont have any experience building amps but I assumed this as well. It seems to me that one would want to shut down or lower the volume all the way when changing something that will have a large impact on the output. For the same reason people lower the volume or power down when changing headphones. That is what people do, isnt it?_

 

That's how I roll...

 I will say I was uneasy the first time I hit the Super button while Hot.

 .


----------



## arcer63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's how I roll...

 I will say I was uneasy the first time I hit the Super button while Hot.

 ._

 

Me too, the preamp switch as well. (I have the super buttons set up to be the preamp switch)


----------



## ezzieyguywuf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *invisiman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did any of you guys get an autoreply/confirmation from Audio-GD when you sent payment? Paypal says the payment was received, but I was wondering what I should expect in terms of communication from them at this point._

 

I actually did get an autoreply when I sent my payment.


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PID* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a quick question

 If I use a ibasso line out adapter like this one
iBasso

 then plug the 3.5"mm end of a 3.5"mm to RCA into the adapter, then plug the RCA end into the Line in section of the compass will this work._

 

The only thing about doing that is you might not burn in the DAC section. The analog input on the Compass goes straight to the headphone amp section so there would be no signal running through the DAC section. It may still burn in the DAC just by being on but I can't say for sure. If you haven't got a digital source and won't be using the DAC it doesn't matter I suppose and can burn in later, or just use USB output from your computer.


----------



## DoYouRight

I wonder if they will make a Compass2 with a C2C and MK19SE combo?


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if they will make a Compass2 with a C2C and MK19SE combo?_

 

and the price will be 800USD


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and the price will be 800USD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Sounds like a hell of a deal. Did you factor in the Promo Price?

 .


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if they will make a Compass2 with a C2C and MK19SE combo?_

 

I can't afford more upgrading, stop it! nananananana I'm not listening.


----------



## Skorpitarius

yeah, I am curious as to how much better sounding things could be but want to believe that the Compass is good enough ....


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skorpitarius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah, I am curious as to how much better sounding things could be but want to believe that the Compass is good enough ...._

 

If it makes you feel any better about it, I feel that the Compass is good enough to stop upgradetitis unless you absolutely must have the best of the best. I went to CanJam over the weekend and listened to some extraordinarily good(not to mention expensive) gear. Although the listening conditions were not ideal, I left feeling that I can be happy with my Compass and Stax setup although I fully admit that the high end gear is clearly better. I still intend to upgrade though, but that is not because I am unhappy. Rather, it is because I feel that the HD800 has managed to combine many aspects of some of my favorite headphones in one package.


----------



## MadMan007

I think after using my Compass for a while I'll try my hand at DIY'ing, maybe with some tube amp stuff. DIY'ing good DACs isn't quite as easy but I could start with a semi-assembled kit..


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it makes you feel any better about it, I feel that the Compass is good enough to stop upgradetitis unless you absolutely must have the best of the best. I went to CanJam over the weekend and listened to some extraordinarily good(not to mention expensive) gear. Although the listening conditions were not ideal, I left feeling that I can be happy with my Compass and Stax setup although I fully admit that the high end gear is clearly better. I still intend to upgrade though, but that is not because I am unhappy. Rather, it is because I feel that the HD800 has managed to combine many aspects of some of my favorite headphones in one package._

 

Lucky you ! did you manage to hear the REF1 and C2C combo??..


----------



## doping panda

Sadly, I didn't. The only REF1 I could find was the one that Kingwa sent to jp###### to be raffled off and I didn't get to listen to it Saturday. By the time I got there on Sunday, it was already in the raffle room. I was very lucky to have been able to attend CanJam because it happened to be only one hour long bus ride away from my dorm. It was great to be able to listen to all sorts of gear from ones I can afford like the Audeze planars and the DT48 to ones that I would not be able to afford for years like the O2/BHSE.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sadly, I didn't. The only REF1 I could find was the one that Kingwa sent to jp###### to be raffled off and I didn't get to listen to it Saturday. By the time I got there on Sunday, it was already in the raffle room._

 

Thats too bad.. in any case, I dont see much impressions on the REF1 on the CAN JAM impression thread either.. whatever, at least by visiting CAN JAM you have some clear idea as to what a mid-level and hi-end gears sound like.

 Btw, I fully agree with your earlier post about Compass..


----------



## squall343

good news from audio gd

 Now they offer repair for free

 from their website
  Quote:


 First years repair guarantee:
 If the gears have any problems (without man-made problems), customers can ship back the gears , we pay the shipping cost ( customers must offer the shipping bill and we return the money to customers, we will return the shipping cost less than the customer paid for us when place an order .) We offer the free repair then ship back to customers ,and we will pay the shipping cost. 
 

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 And now they have international hotline
  Quote:


 Tel / Fax: 0086 757 22381191

 Our interpreter work time is
 Chinese time AM 8:00 to AM 12:00, PM 2:00 to PM6:00
 USA time PM 7:00 to PM 11:00, AM 1:00 to AM5:00
 GMT time AM 0:00 to AM 4:00, AM 6:00 to AM 10:00 
 

　ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## Optional

Mine is in LA and has cleared Customs 

 So close yet so far! I'm hoping for Thursday, but wouldn't be surprised if it showed up Friday.


----------



## Optional

i don't think the quick reply works for me, it keeps double posting every time i use it...


----------



## MadMan007

Wow shipping both ways for returns. That's the sign of a VERY customer-first company.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow shipping both ways for returns. That's the sign of a VERY customer-first company._

 

....and the one that has a lot of confidence in what they make..


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow shipping both ways for returns. That's the sign of a VERY customer-first company._

 

considering shipping is 100USD easily for both ways shipping to US


----------



## Nopileus

Will the Compass sound good with HD600's?

 I've only heard my HD600 straight out of my Mac Mini, and with a selfmade Eaton amp. 
 The Eaton sounds like crap to me (sharp highs, tight bass, and allmost no mids), 
 straight out of the Mac it sounds good.
 As i need an Amp/DAC i'm considering the Compass, but i don't want to buy it 
 before i notice that it sounds awful with my HD600.

 I hope someone with Compass and HD600 can give me some advice


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *packman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://redirectingat.com/?id=475X763...distortion.pdf

 Yeah I agree. The document above is such a great piece of work...something unseen before. Truth hurts?
_

 

Here is what I think, most IC manufacturers design their chips having very high open loop gain, which can show perfect readings in the meter, although this same feature has the tendency to leave the sound very dry..

 A measuring meter is linear, it has no life, no emotions, while ears are non linear, and it has subjective sense.. 

 I think its easier to make a circuit that scores perfect on the meter, but the challenge is making something that sounds good.

 Its really not about whether truth hurts or not, the truth is someone like me goes by my ears and what sounds good to my ears rather than what looks impressive to my eyes.. Again, all this IMHO..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *packman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*E*-*D*-*I*-*T* A correction to something I have read in this thread:

 The Wolfson WM8740 has 117 dB of S/N ratio, and -104 dB of THD

 The AD1852 has 114 dB of S/N ratio, and -102 dB of THD

 Directly from the datasheets. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's clear to me, apart from this information, that the WM8740 would be a preferable choice for a high performance DAC of today. The $269 Little Dot DAC for instance uses it (along with a Wolfson digital receiver).

 Compare with the popular CS4398's 120 dB of S/N ratio and -107 dB of THD._

 

Hi Andrea,

 Check the graphs of the digital filter response. The WM8740 shows around -80DB in those. If anything, possibly the WM8741 might be interesting, as it shows much better figures. Aside from that though, the sound quality is most important. I don't have any regard for that big PDF of measurements, as it was clear that there was more detail with a HDAM than any of the opamps I have tried -- OPA627, OP27E, LM4562 and LME49710. The latter, were, however, pretty close to the Earth HDAM. The HDAMs also change with burn-in, so it would be interesting to see the measurements before and after 350 hours of use.


----------



## wdoerr

Opamp rolling with the compass?
 Sounds cool. I'll give it a try. The opamps are cheap and maybe
 someone here can create a opamp rolling kit, similar to the D10's 
 kit.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *packman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW I just can't believe that those who have tried IC opamps in the Compass were disapointed, unless the thing was very very flawed in its design (which I don't think likely), or the people had tried only very poor integrated opamps._

 

I think the compass was designed to have good synergy with the earth and moon. Is that so hard to imagine since audio-gd makes both? So it's rather funny you're advising people to use opamps in a dac you've never tried before. Don't you have preferences for different opamps in different situations? That's why I think the sun v2 is good, just not too good in the compass. If you're arguing that integrated opamps sound more neutral than the hdam's, that's kind of a given 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the hdam's all have a unique flavor.


----------



## comedian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked that a long time ago, Peete told me it's okay which input you use._

 

Good news, thanks mate.


----------



## obentou

Received my Compass today! Ordered May 7, Arrived June 3 in Toronto.

 The compass was shipped pretty securely, with the two styrofoam cushions as pictured on the site.

 As for the actual unit itself.... I think it was taped excessively - sooo much tape, and in my haste to get it out I almost cut the Compass with my knife! In the end I managed to get it out of the plastic wrap (without harming the Compass).

 The Compass itself for some reason had a huge smear on its casing on the top, which ran the length of the unit. I tried to rub it off with water to no avail, so I used some rubbing alcohol to get it off. Fortunately this worked and the case looks nice again with the brushed metal finish. Seemed to me someone spilled oil on top of my unit. I'd recommend others who will be receiving theirs to wipe it off as well since there was some weird orange tinge on my wipe when I finished cleaning it.

 So, I plugged it in and most importantly, it worked as hoped. Popped the K701's in and the sound coming out was very different from what I was used to with my ESW10JPN + iBasso D10 setup. This combo had a much "brighter" sound to it and sounded very close to my portable setup (W3 + Sony 639F). This was the biggest surprise to me, but I guess that was to be expected since the cans are known to be like this in nature.

 I noticed that I don't have the volume knob turned much as well - not even past 9 o'clock, lol... without a doubt this thing can blow my ears off if I tried playing it at the highest volume.

 Without any burn in on my part, the Compass sounds good. Plenty of detail and separation with the K701's, although I think it could be improved with more use. It hasn't dropped my jaw completely yet, but I am sure it will once I pop in all the jumpers and let it burn in for a while as recommended by the information on the site.

 I apologize for being unable to elaborate more on the Compass sound because I think it will be biased... to listen to this totally new setup coming from an ESW10JPN and D10, it sounds very much different from what I am used to so I don't want to give out any false impressions until I try other headphones for reference. In the future I would probably try the PK1's or some other can if I ever get the money...

 Edit: Sorry forgot to add, I am running the Compass through USB with ASIO4ALL.


----------



## samspotting

I ordered 1 week after you and received it yesterday and I live in Toronto.

 Weird...

 Anyways, does burn in work if I use preamp? I want to burn in my speakers at the same time. Will preamp burn in the amp just as well?


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good news from audio gd

 Now they offer repair for free

 from their website
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 And now they have international hotline

 　ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1_

 

I was impressed with Kingwa's communication and how he handled the bag incident, and he still continues to surprise me with his dedication to his customers. Good job audio-gd, keep it up!


----------



## hertz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received my Compass today! Ordered May 7, Arrived June 3 in Toronto.

 The compass was shipped pretty securely, with the two styrofoam cushions as pictured on the site.

 As for the actual unit itself.... I think it was taped excessively - sooo much tape, and in my haste to get it out I almost cut the Compass with my knife! In the end I managed to get it out of the plastic wrap (without harming the Compass).

 The Compass itself for some reason had a huge smear on its casing on the top, which ran the length of the unit. I tried to rub it off with water to no avail, so I used some rubbing alcohol to get it off. Fortunately this worked and the case looks nice again with the brushed metal finish. Seemed to me someone spilled oil on top of my unit. I'd recommend others who will be receiving theirs to wipe it off as well since there was some weird orange tinge on my wipe when I finished cleaning it.

 So, I plugged it in and most importantly, it worked as hoped. Popped the K701's in and the sound coming out was very different from what I was used to with my ESW10JPN + iBasso D10 setup. This combo had a much "brighter" sound to it and sounded very close to my portable setup (W3 + Sony 639F). This was the biggest surprise to me, but I guess that was to be expected since the cans are known to be like this in nature.

 I noticed that I don't have the volume knob turned much as well - not even past 9 o'clock, lol... without a doubt this thing can blow my ears off if I tried playing it at the highest volume.

 Without any burn in on my part, the Compass sounds good. Plenty of detail and separation with the K701's, although I think it could be improved with more use. It hasn't dropped my jaw completely yet, but I am sure it will once I pop in all the jumpers and let it burn in for a while as recommended by the information on the site.

 I apologize for being unable to elaborate more on the Compass sound because I think it will be biased... to listen to this totally new setup coming from an ESW10JPN and D10, it sounds very much different from what I am used to so I don't want to give out any false impressions until I try other headphones for reference. In the future I would probably try the PK1's or some other can if I ever get the money...

 Edit: Sorry forgot to add, I am running the Compass through USB with ASIO4ALL._

 

Thank you for a nice review.

 When you mean "brighter", I guess you mean the mids and treble. How about the soundstage? Is it forward or close to your ears?


----------



## Shizdan

Anybody have some HDAM's they wanna sell me?


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hertz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for a nice review.

 When you mean "brighter", I guess you mean the mids and treble. How about the soundstage? Is it forward or close to your ears?_

 

I'd wager his impressions are largely due to the difference between the K701 and ESW10JPN as much as the amps. He should try the ESW10JPN in the Compass if he still has them.


----------



## wdoerr

I'm no audiofool/phile, but:

 The Earth HDAM distortion measurement are obviously erroneous.
 Audio-dg measures 0.0005% THD @ 1KHZ.
 Weiss Engr. measure 0.1% to 1.0% THD @ 1KHZ.

 Weiss Engr is measuring THD in excess of 10% at high frequencies.
 Even a fool like me would be able to hear that, so, either:

 Weiss Engr. measurements are erroneous, or:
 The Audio-dg HDAM's are not compatable with non Audio-dg products.

 Kingwa need to got on this right away.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm no audiofool/phile, but:

 The Earth HDAM distortion measurement are obviously erroneous.
 Audio-dg measures 0.0005% THD @ 1KHZ.
 Weiss Engr. measure 0.1% to 1.0% THD @ 1KHZ.

 Weiss Engr is measuring THD in excess of 10% at high frequencies.
 Even a fool like me would be able to hear that, so, either:

 Weiss Engr. measurements are erroneous, or:
 The Audio-dg HDAM's are not compatable with non Audio-dg products.

 Kingwa need to got on this right away._

 

Hope you brought your flamesuit with you. You may want to don it now.


----------



## obentou

All I can say is with my current setup the soundstage is quite expansive. 

 And yep my impressions are largely due to the difference b/w the ESW10JPN and K701. Too bad I don't have the ESW10's anymore, so I can't offer a comprehensive review of the Compass. I can only tell you guys how the K701 sounds with the Compass through the USB 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Hmm maybe mine took long to deliver because I used EMS perhaps?


----------



## Optional

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow shipping both ways for returns. That's the sign of a VERY customer-first company._

 

Pretty much every computer component company does this and so do all the big makers also, it's something I really expect from a company whose product I'm going to purchase, it shows they care about me and not just my money, which means I'm much more likely to purchase another product from them in the future.

 On another note, my Compass is out for delivery right now! YAY!


----------



## MadMan007

Sorry to just flat out disagree because I don't mean to start an argument but many if not most companies pay shipping one way: back to you. Especially computer component makers and etailers (I'm more a computer hobbiest than an audio one although computer stuff is getting less interesting so I've dealt with it personally) just read the terms and conditions on the websites. You can get 'exceptions' but few have shipping both ways as a standard policy like Kingwa has done. Dell is one notable exception that I've dealt with, HP business has a good onsite warranty too, bigger OEMs are more likely to do it but component makers like Asus, eVGA etc and etailers tend not to as a policy and there are more of them and that's what I've dealt with more.

 Enough of that OT though. Did you get any optional HDAMS? Be sure to tell us about your Compass when it arrives!


----------



## Aleatoris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm no audiofool/phile, but:

 The Earth HDAM distortion measurement are obviously erroneous.
 Audio-dg measures 0.0005% THD @ 1KHZ.
 Weiss Engr. measure 0.1% to 1.0% THD @ 1KHZ.

 Weiss Engr is measuring THD in excess of 10% at high frequencies.
 Even a fool like me would be able to hear that, so, either:

 Weiss Engr. measurements are erroneous, or:
 The Audio-dg HDAM's are not compatable with non Audio-dg products.

 Kingwa need to got on this right away._

 

For the love of god, the company name is Audio-GD
 GD
 GD
 not DG.

 Sorry, this was really irking me. you even have it wrong in your sig.


----------



## Optional

WOO! Just got it. Set it up with my MBP as Optical and USB output, comparing the two, they seem to be exactly the same, which is what I was expecting, now I have to get a line out dock for my iPod Classic to use as a line-in.

 Was packaged well, came the cables mentioned, which is a nice addition, adds value to the purchase by including those little things.

 Should I undo the top and remove the foam on top of the HDAM? Because I don't have any others besides the stock 'Earth'.

 I listened to a Compass two weeks back at a fellow head-fi'ers house and loved it, this one still has a couple hundred hours of burn-in to be at the level of his, but that's what sealed the deal for me is getting to see and try one in person first.

 Very happy with it, big grin on haha, BT - Emotional Technology flowing through it in ALAC right now via Optical off my MBP, oh yes!







 ATH-A950LTD's + Compass + MBP = Take me away!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Optional* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOO! Just got it. Set it up with my MBP as Optical and USB output, comparing the two, they seem to be exactly the same, which is what I was expecting, now I have to get a line out dock for my iPod Classic to use as a line-in.

 Was packaged well, came the cables mentioned, which is a nice addition, adds value to the purchase by including those little things.

 Should I undo the top and remove the foam on top of the HDAM? Because I don't have any others besides the stock 'Earth'.

 I listened to a Compass two weeks back at a fellow head-fi'ers house and loved it, this one still has a couple hundred hours of burn-in to be at the level of his, but that's what sealed the deal for me is getting to see and try one in person first.

 Very happy with it, big grin on haha, BT - Emotional Technology flowing through it in ALAC right now via Optical off my MBP, oh yes!






 ATH-A950LTD's + Compass + MBP = Take me away!_

 

I took the foam off on mine. Also, the HDAM does not fit in the socket very well, so it's a good idea to make sure it is located/seated as well as you can.

 .


----------



## mbd2884

Can I ask what an MBP is?

 Try BT - Binary Universe with the Compass. Fun!


----------



## sachu

I listened to the Compass at the show with the HF-2s...It was sounding pretty decent. however the gain setting was just waay too high for the Grados and the combo sounded bright. I plugged in my Yh-100 orthodynamic and it was a better fit to the gain setting, but still too high. The bass was too monotonic and I heard none of the layers of bass that the Yh-100 is capable of with the tube hybrids I have tried. I must say it is quite good value for money. However, I would still pick my CTH over the Compass for an amplifier.


----------



## Optional

MBP = MacBook Pro, using it as my source right now.

 I have Binary Universe as well, that's up next! 

 Thanks les_garten for telling me about seating the HDAM, I opened it up and sure enough, I was able to correct it's seating. I'll probably take the foam off now that I see it was holding the HDAM oddly.

 Also, what mode should I have it in to burn it in more thoroughly? It seems the default is Soft 2, is that what I want it at?

 And am I correct in remembering that for the Earth HDAM, Neutral was the preferred setup? I already set the gain to Low for my AT's.


----------



## MadMan007

Do the HDAMs just not sit tightly in the sockets or do you think it was movement from shipping? I could see how they'd be awkward just because they're so tall and oversized for the socket but I hope they are fairly stable, enough so that you can move the unit around normally without worry.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sachu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listened to the Compass at the show with the HF-2s...It was sounding pretty decent. however the gain setting was just waay too high for the Grados and the combo sounded bright. I plugged in my Yh-100 orthodynamic and it was a better fit to the gain setting, but still too high. The bass was too monotonic and I heard none of the layers of bass that the Yh-100 is capable of with the tube hybrids I have tried. I must say it is quite good value for money. However, I would still pick my CTH over the Compass for an amplifier._

 

Was it set to high or low gain?


----------



## sachu

^ no idea..it was set up on grawks table ..


----------



## Olev

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm no audiofool/phile, but:
 The Earth HDAM distortion measurement are obviously erroneous.
 Audio-dg measures 0.0005% THD @ 1KHZ.
 Weiss Engr. measure 0.1% to 1.0% THD @ 1KHZ.
 ...
 Weiss Engr. measurements are erroneous, or:
 The Audio-dg HDAM's are not compatable with non Audio-dg products._

 

Did Weiss do a proper burn-in for at least 100h or did he just test it for 15 minutes? HDAM's need some time to open up - much more than IC op-amps.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sachu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ no idea..it was set up on grawks table .._

 

Without knowing the settings it's tough to determine if it was setup properly (voicing /HDAM choice ) for the cans being used.

 It's too bad Zanth wasn't there to renew aquaintences and help guide those interested/curious in the little guy.

 Maybe Grawk can pipe in on how it was used/setup since he was the one displaying it. 

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do the HDAMs just not sit tightly in the sockets or do you think it was movement from shipping? I could see how they'd be awkward just because they're so tall and oversized for the socket but I hope they are fairly stable, enough so that you can move the unit around normally without worry.



 Was it set to high or low gain?_

 

The dip socket is made for DIP Chips that have blades instead of pins, practically speaking. The HDAMs have round pins, it is not an ideal situation. The DIP socket was not made for round pins.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sachu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listened to the Compass at the show with the HF-2s...It was sounding pretty decent. however the gain setting was just waay too high for the Grados and the combo sounded bright. I plugged in my Yh-100 orthodynamic and it was a better fit to the gain setting, but still too high. The bass was too monotonic and I heard none of the layers of bass that the Yh-100 is capable of with the tube hybrids I have tried. I must say it is quite good value for money. However, I would still pick my CTH over the Compass for an amplifier._

 

Congrats on scoring the REF1!! My Grados run about 10:30-11:00 on Low Gain setting and sound Good on the Compass, and spectacular off the REF1.

 .


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Without knowing the settings it's tough to determine if it was setup properly (voicing /HDAM choice ) for the cans being used.

 It's too bad Zanth wasn't there to renew aquaintences and help guide those interested/curious in the little guy.

 Maybe Grawk can pipe in on how it was used/setup since he was the one displaying it. 

 Peete._

 

Yeah been nice if Zanth could have helped as the winner of the raffle for the Compass at the CanJam found it too difficult to understand how to use it. Couldn't get the USB input to work and didn't understand what the S Button was for. Wasn't intuitive enough, the fourth position, or rather the first default position on the selector wasn't impressive enough. Shrug who knows.

 Not surprised that some won't like the Compass, every amp has it's fans and unsatisfied.


----------



## Optional

Still wondering if I should leave the Compass as 'Soft 2' in order to burn it in more thoroughly, and am I correct in remembering that with the Earth HDAM, that Neutral was the preferred setting?

 Should I be using USB or Optical? I personally don't hear any different with the first few tracks I've listened to, hooked both up and switched between them to see, does USB ensure that the Compass is being used as a DAC where as optical might still be using my macbook pro's internal circuitry?


----------



## sachu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats on scoring the REF1!! My Grados run about 10:30-11:00 on Low Gain setting and sound Good on the Compass, and spectacular off the REF1.

 ._

 

thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Look forward to it arriving sometime next week.
 Need to re-terminate my ESI Juli@ to BNC.

 Haven't decided yet if I will keep the DAC or not. Going to give it a long listen. It was sounding really good at the show.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sachu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Look forward to it arriving sometime next week.
 Need to re-terminate my ESI Juli@ to BNC.

 Haven't decided yet if I will keep the DAC or not. Going to give it a long listen. It was sounding really good at the show._

 

Since the COAX out is on a Breakout Cable, How'd you do that, I'm curious?

 .


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Optional* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still wondering if I should leave the Compass as 'Soft 2' in order to burn it in more thoroughly, and am I correct in remembering that with the Earth HDAM, that Neutral was the preferred setting?

 Should I be using USB or Optical? I personally don't hear any different with the first few tracks I've listened to, hooked both up and switched between them to see, does USB ensure that the Compass is being used as a DAC where as optical might still be using my macbook pro's internal circuitry?_

 

You should probably put it on soft-2 anyways since you never know what you'll like. I do like the Earth on neutral the best though. I'm not liking the Moon very much due to the recessed mids; it even managed to make vocals on a Sextett sound distant.


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Optional* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still wondering if I should leave the Compass as 'Soft 2' in order to burn it in more thoroughly, and am I correct in remembering that with the Earth HDAM, that Neutral was the preferred setting?

 Should I be using USB or Optical? I personally don't hear any different with the first few tracks I've listened to, hooked both up and switched between them to see, does USB ensure that the Compass is being used as a DAC where as optical might still be using my macbook pro's internal circuitry?_

 

How many hours? I just did around 400 hours for the soft-settings, long enough for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I've heard people say the optical output of different laptops differ in quality, so the best thing is for you to compare it with usb once everything has burned in. If you hear no difference then no worry, you hear no diff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in which case you should use optical because it's cooler! And optical can do higher sampling. Both will always send digital data instead of using your macbook's internal dac.


----------



## doping panda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sachu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Look forward to it arriving sometime next week.
 Need to re-terminate my ESI Juli@ to BNC.

 Haven't decided yet if I will keep the DAC or not. Going to give it a long listen. It was sounding really good at the show._

 

If you don't want it, I'll be happy to take it off your hands.


----------



## Optional

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doping panda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should probably put it on soft-2 anyways since you never know what you'll like. I do like the Earth on neutral the best though. I'm not liking the Moon very much due to the recessed mids; it even managed to make vocals on a Sextett sound distant._

 

Yeah I'll swap it around as time passes, but I'm impatient haha, I love getting new toys.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How many hours? I just did around 400 hours for the soft-settings, long enough for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I've heard people say the optical output of different laptops differ in quality, so the best thing is for you to compare it with usb once everything has burned in. If you hear no difference then no worry, you hear no diff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in which case you should use optical because it's cooler! And optical can do higher sampling. Both will always send digital data instead of using your macbook's internal dac._

 

I'll be using Optical then because I'd love to try out some 24/96 flac!

 I just got it today, a little over an hour ago, so yeah. How much do they do before mailing it off?

 I didn't notice a difference right now though, through either headphone.

 I'm leaving it at soft2 for the burn-in like was said, and I'll probably switch it around to different modes every few days just to see how it's progressing in the burn-in.

 Thanks for the replies! This is my first desktop amp and first dac, so there's a lot of new stuff to play with here


----------



## ezzieyguywuf

I don't mean to sound silly but what is the advantage of having the lock on the "ear out" (I think its cutd that they called it that by the way. I mean, can you imagine a little chinese audiophile designing this for us and translating it to "Ear Out"? Hilarious!)


----------



## Optional

I have no idea why the lock is there, but isn't it just a special kind of socket?

 Also, the new ones, and mine, have a little headphone symbol instead of 'ear out', those were early revisions, 'betas' if you will, some even had different gain settings.


----------



## mbd2884

It locks the plug in the jack so you can't accidently pull it out. It's what it is named. A locking jack.


----------



## Optional

Funny, the locking jack didn't play nice with the D2000's jack of the guy who's Compass I was trying out before I got mine, so he had to wiggle it out a bit to get the audio to come through both channels, and so he's ordered some new connectors for his headphones so he can fix that, not sure if he got to it yet.


----------



## sachu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since the COAX out is on a Breakout Cable, How'd you do that, I'm curious?

 ._

 

tap the signal directly...dump the breakout cable.

 fallen_angel has done this..

 edit:

 oops looks like he has done it for the EMu0404..
 Shouldn't be too hard to do the same for the ESI juli@.


----------



## zeroibis

Maybe any cable that has a RCA plug on the end will work as all you are doing is transferring digital signals. Logically a low quality plug could effect the signal even if it it digital put it should still "work". 

 On the comment about the oil, I also have that same thing on the top of mind and I have not tired to wipe it off. If I do try it will only be after I get a plexi top just so that it does not bother me. However, in the long run I plan to use that top only when I am transporting it.

 With regard to the RMA policy that is really great especially considering that this is an international shipment. I have been building computers for years and it is really is rare to see a company pay for the shipping to them. 

 Well 180 hours burn in so far, getting close to that special 300+ mark!11. I can not wait to hear what it will sound like with the Moon and Sun and also what jumper setting will be the best.


----------



## ezzieyguywuf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Optional* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Funny, the locking jack didn't play nice with the D2000's jack of the guy who's Compass I was trying out before I got mine, so he had to wiggle it out a bit to get the audio to come through both channels, and so he's ordered some new connectors for his headphones so he can fix that, not sure if he got to it yet._

 

That scares me because I just bought some D2000s to go with this thing. But didn't King Wa (is that his name) test it with some D2000s? So wouldn't he have caught the design flaw and fixed it? Maybe your friend got a bad connector.

 Also, will I need an adaptor for a standard HP cable? I was reading a review and he kept talking about everything being "Huge!" and then showed a picture of like three different sized plugs and it looked like he put the biggest straight into his Compass.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the boorish cousin ate the attention?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm no audiofool/phile, but:_

 

Damned right! There can be only one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 ~*AudioPhewl*


----------



## Optional

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ezzieyguywuf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That scares me because I just bought some D2000s to go with this thing. But didn't King Wa (is that his name) test it with some D2000s? So wouldn't he have caught the design flaw and fixed it? Maybe your friend got a bad connector.

 Also, will I need an adaptor for a standard HP cable? I was reading a review and he kept talking about everything being "Huge!" and then showed a picture of like three different sized plugs and it looked like he put the biggest straight into his Compass._

 

If I corrected myself and said that he had those re-cabled now that I think on it would you feel better? I'm not sure if the OEM cable was fine though, just that his re-cable had to be tweaked to work.


----------



## ezzieyguywuf

Well the Denons that I bought have been re-cabled too so... still scared! *bites nails*


----------



## Optional

Well, it works fine with my AT headphones, that's all I can tell you, re-cables will be hit or miss with this compared to the oem cables people have.

 I'm looking to recable my AT's sometime here also.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ezzieyguywuf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the Denons that I bought have been re-cabled too so... still scared! *bites nails*_

 

Nothing much to be scared about, I think. Both TRS connectors and jacks are completely standardized. The jack on the Compass is a Neutrik, the brand that's used in most of the better headphone amps. Unless the Denons are recabled with a completely weird and unusual plug, I doubt you'll have any problems.

 The locking feature doesn't have to be there for me either (it's a studio thing of course). I know the life of my Corda Opera has been saved a couple of times by not having a locking jack. (So that when I tripped over a headphone cable, the plug simply came out and the Opera wasn't send flying across the room.) But the locking jack has plenty of fans here, something to do with a sense of security no doubt.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Optional* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have no idea why the lock is there, but isn't it just a special kind of socket?

 Also, the new ones, and mine, have a little headphone symbol instead of 'ear out', those were early revisions, 'betas' if you will, some even had different gain settings._

 

that is the neutrik lock

Amazon.com: Neutrik NJ3FP6C-BAG 1/4" Locking Chassis Jack Black: Electronics

 pretty common used for those DIY amp but i also remember seeing them in some commercial amp


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ezzieyguywuf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the Denons that I bought have been re-cabled too so... still scared! *bites nails*_

 

My D5000s have no issue. Also that lock can be removed, I think there is info on the Nutrik site on how to do it. I would imagine it would have to be desoldered but not sure about that.

 .


----------



## LaidBack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My D5000s have no issue._

 

Ditto. I've used my D2000 countless times on the Compass and C-2C with no issues whatsoever.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd wager his impressions are largely due to the difference between the K701 and ESW10JPN as much as the amps. He should try the ESW10JPN in the Compass if he still has them._

 

I've borrowed ESW10JPNs again, and due to my different listening habits over the last few months, I rather like them. They are stupidly easy to drive, even sounding good straight out of an iPod, so they will work well with a Compass.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to just flat out disagree because I don't mean to start an argument but many if not most companies pay shipping one way: back to you._

 

They are all large companies with a huge budget. It's quite a big deal for a tiny company to offer this, IMO.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sachu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listened to the Compass at the show with the HF-2s...It was sounding pretty decent. however the gain setting was just waay too high for the Grados and the combo sounded bright. I plugged in my Yh-100 orthodynamic and it was a better fit to the gain setting, but still too high. The bass was too monotonic and I heard none of the layers of bass that the Yh-100 is capable of with the tube hybrids I have tried. I must say it is quite good value for money. However, I would still pick my CTH over the Compass for an amplifier._

 

Did you know there was a gain switch on the back? I should really take the shovel to you guys, since I discussed with grawk about my writing FAQs, yet it didn't appear anyone who was in the discussion read the contents of them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ezzieyguywuf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't mean to sound silly but what is the advantage of having the lock on the "ear out" (I think its cutd that they called it that by the way. I mean, can you imagine a little chinese audiophile designing this for us and translating it to "Ear Out"? Hilarious!)_

 

Some history: All the Audio-gd headamps had cheap, Chinese locking jacks on them, which were easy to release headphones from, but also poor as the sound would drop out often from a bad connection. Since locking jacks are supposed to help maintain a good connection, this was rather stupid. I basically said to Kingwa, never let any headphone amp out of your company ever again with those cheap jacks, as no matter how good the design, it will all be for nothing if people complain about the signal dropping out from those cheap jacks. He replaced them with the genuine Neutriks instead. I agree they are probably unnecessary.


----------



## Optional

Oh man, this amp caused me to order a Grado SR-80i on amazon... ah!

 My wallet... ouch.


----------



## K3cT

Is this another reincarnation of that guy again? I can't remember the name at the moment...


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this another reincarnation of that guy again? I can't remember the name at the moment..._

 

Yup, our dear friend Andrea, some people desperately need a real hobby.

 Hey Andrea, ever considered taking up basket weaving or something?


----------



## Currawong

...


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eteled* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your patronizing pretense, BTW, reminds me a lot of your forerunners... say Penchum or Prickley Peete. I guess you studied hard! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It must be a fashion that of making these big big threads on internet forums, and doing such a wonderful free (?) service to a certain product and its maker._

 

Ouch! That's gotta hurt. I guess Andrea calls 'em like he sees 'em.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xmod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He must have drunk to prefer horrid opamps like the OPA2211 and the LME49722. Their super lortion means nothing!_

 

I plan on giving both a try in my Compass. I have not heard either of them so I cannot say anything good or bad about them. I will let my own ears decide.


----------



## garfnon

Just got my Compass today. I'm assuming the OPA shouldn't be bouncing all over the place inside the casing with pings bent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Sigh, not good.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *garfnon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my Compass today. I'm assuming the OPA shouldn't be bouncing all over the place inside the casing with pings bent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Sigh, not good._

 

That's not good. Are any of the pins broken? If so, email Kingwa at Audio-gd to have a new one sent to you. If the pins are bent, you can use a mechanical pencil to straighten the pins. I used one to straighten the bent pins on my Earth HDAM of the bagged Compass I received and it worked well.


----------



## garfnon

Yea, the pins were bent. I straightened them out and popped it back in. Just hooked it up and thankfully it sounds fine. Good thing nothing was knocked loose or broke from that. Only casualty is that the OPA was ripped loose from the ground wire. Not sure if I'll notice a difference or not from that.


----------



## Skorpitarius

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've borrowed ESW10JPNs again, and due to my different listening habits over the last few months, I rather like them. They are stupidly easy to drive, even sounding good straight out of an iPod, so they will work well with a Compass.



 They are all large companies with a huge budget. It's quite a big deal for a tiny company to offer this, IMO.



 Did you know there was a gain switch on the back? I should really take the shovel to you guys, since I discussed with grawk about my writing FAQs, yet it didn't appear anyone who was in the discussion read the contents of them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Some history: All the Audio-gd headamps had cheap, Chinese locking jacks on them, which were easy to release headphones from, but also poor as the sound would drop out often from a bad connection. Since locking jacks are supposed to help maintain a good connection, this was rather stupid. I basically said to Kingwa, never let any headphone amp out of your company ever again with those cheap jacks, as no matter how good the design, it will all be for nothing if people complain about the signal dropping out from those cheap jacks. He replaced them with the genuine Neutriks instead. I agree they are probably unnecessary._

 



 I have no problem with the Neutrik jack on my Compass, in fact I think it's cool looking and I don't care that I have to press the thing to release the connector ... big F'n whoop, ya know ????


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *garfnon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea, the pins were bent. I straightened them out and popped it back in. Just hooked it up and thankfully it sounds fine. Good thing nothing was knocked loose or broke from that. Only casualty is that the OPA was ripped loose from the ground wire. Not sure if I'll notice a difference or not from that._

 

That's good...I'm glad it's working for you. I am using the Sun v2 HDAM and don't have the ground wire connected. I think it sounds better without it.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skorpitarius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have no problem with the Neutrik jack on my Compass, in fact I think it's cool looking and I don't care that I have to press the thing to release the connector ... big F'n whoop, ya know ????_

 

This is the way I feel as well. I always leave my headphones either not plugged in or out of the way when I'm plugged into the Compass so tripping over cords and sending it flying isn't a serious concern right now!


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *garfnon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my Compass today. I'm assuming the OPA shouldn't be bouncing all over the place inside the casing with pings bent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Sigh, not good._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *garfnon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea, the pins were bent. I straightened them out and popped it back in. Just hooked it up and thankfully it sounds fine. Good thing nothing was knocked loose or broke from that. Only casualty is that the OPA was ripped loose from the ground wire. Not sure if I'll notice a difference or not from that._

 

Well, that's a first. Strange things happen during transport indeed. I would never thought it could come loose during shipping since it's basically wedged tightly in the case. Was the foam (foamtape) that's supposed to hold it in its socket still in place?

 Glad it still works though. The ground wire probably doesn't make a world of difference. Still, if you happen to have a soldering iron lying around you could try reattaching it.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's good...I'm glad it's working for you. I am using the Sun v2 HDAM and don't have the ground wire connected. I think it sounds better without it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is it not dangerous for the HDAM to not have the ground attached? I would have worried about it frying the little guy!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberidd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it not dangerous for the HDAM to not have the ground attached? I would have worried about it frying the little guy!_

 


 Here is what Audio GD website says :

  Quote:


 Even if the earth wire is not connected or used, the output sound will have slight difference. The user can choose to decide on his own, but we recommend to connect the earth wire to ground. Please do not connect OPAs earth wire to AC power socket ground.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is what Audio GD website says :_

 

Hmm, very interesting! I just assumed that the ground would work like other grounds: to protect from surge damage, etc. so unplugging it just sounded like trouble. Now I may have to give it a shot, thanks!


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RaimaKesar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This one is also mostly great.ya rally







 I hope to get the DAC100 for audition by next week, and to compare it with the Franken mod. however, zero with franken mod is still much cheaper than the DAC100._

 

I think they no longer sell the dac100 already

 dac200 is their entry model
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## DoYouRight

Why did 3 accounts all say the same thing?

 "This one is also mostly great.ya rally?

 Someone setting up multiple accounts for HF-2s?


----------



## Currawong

They are all spammers. They have an image link in their signature that doesn't show. I've reported them.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Someone setting up multiple accounts for HF-2s?_

 

Nice conspiracy-theory!


----------



## darkhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkhalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have a clue about the type and capacity of these 4 brown caps?
 Not looking to start a DIY discussion in this thread.

 My guess: Metallized Polypropylene 700pF? (but seems like an odd number)
 I could be way off. Any ideas?



_

 

For the record I found out that these caps are silver mica 7pF. No need to change these if you want to cap mod the compass.


----------



## fluffygdog95

Oh my. I recieved my Compass today. The post office actually attempted to deliver it yesterday, but I was not home. Started shipping on June 1st, arrived to Superior, Wisconsin on June 4th. Pretty fast EMS. Out of the box with my girlfriend's HD555s this sounds amazing. More impressions when burn in is complete and I have my HD650s!


----------



## SoFGR

my earth's ground wire got cut, most probably due to heat, what to do now ? resolder it back to the HDAM ? what kind of soldering tool will i need ?


----------



## DoYouRight

any other mods yet? Im curious about the Difference in DAC 200 and Compass?


----------



## zeroibis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my earth's ground wire got cut, most probably due to heat, what to do now ? resolder it back to the HDAM ? what kind of soldering tool will i need ?_

 

How did it manage to get cut due to heat!? You swinging lightsabers around or something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Burn in: 226 hours continuous


----------



## SoFGR

I just wanted to reseat HDAM because i was hearing lots of static and the wire snapped,seems to be working fine without it anyway


----------



## Currawong

The ground wire isn't critical, it just makes the circuit work slightly better.


----------



## Skorpitarius

Any of you hot-shot experts know why i'm getting this ugly white noise sound when I plug my stock Toslink/optical cable into my transport then into the Compass on the optical setting rather than music ? Coax works beautifully, better so than the USB I think unless it was just placebo expectation effect ...


----------



## Skorpitarius

also - when I play a cd in my computer or via transport ---> coax--->Compass it will randomly drop out(silence) like the connection / signal dropped or something ... What is with this ?!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skorpitarius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_also - when I play a cd in my computer or via transport ---> coax--->Compass it will randomly drop out(silence) like the connection / signal dropped or something ... What is with this ?!_

 

Poor cable ? Try another cable and double check your settings on the computer. As for the transport try a different cable to rule it out of the equation.

 It's unusual to say the least to have drop outs as a DAC either works or it doesn't work. Do you hear the relay get lock and when the drop out occurs does this click (lock) cycle on and off ? If it is the signal is of poor quality and or noise is somehow polluting the digital signal chain causing the dac to lose the data stream lock and will try to reacquire a lock by cycling the connection (giving you the drop out). The other possibility is a defective dac receiver section which cannot be ruled out without trying everything else first.

 What gear are you using including cabling, name the computer hardware and setup as well. Hopefully it's something simple 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## cyberidd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Poor cable ? Try another cable and double check your settings on the computer. As for the transport try a different cable to rule it out of the equation.

 It's unusual to say the least to have drop outs as a DAC either works or it doesn't work. Do you hear the relay get lock and when the drop out occurs does this click (lock) cycle on and off ? If it is the signal is of poor quality and or noise is somehow polluting the digital signal chain causing the dac to lose the data stream lock and will try to reacquire a lock by cycling the connection (giving you the drop out). The other possibility is a defective dac receiver section which cannot be ruled out without trying everything else first.

 What gear are you using including cabling, name the computer hardware and setup as well. Hopefully it's something simple 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

It really amazes me how you and some of the others are so dedicated to the people here; helping fix problems, making suggestions for improvements, etc. The whole atmosphere in this thread truly is outstanding, and I'd like to thank you all for the work you put into this thread! So thanks for all the help!


----------



## SoFGR

I've moved on to Moon - neutral - AKG K601 anyways, got tired of my dt770s boom boom bass  now i'm thinking of buying an seperate headphone amp, DAMN


----------



## Shizdan

Anybody have any HDAMS they want to sell me besides the Earth?


----------



## zeroibis

This post is a test to see if I can view beyond page 487... I want to view the pages after 487 but it just takes me to 487!? If I click last it redirects in a loop and does nothing. Perhaps this thread has hit the max size or something!? Hopefully we can start a continuation if that is the case. 

 Edit: looks like this is the last page so I am not missing anything. Strange though that it shows pages after this and last page does not work. Maybe something went screwy in the database after the forums locations moved however that should be impossible. I run some vBulletin boards myself and know that moving the order should not effect this....

 Well I hope everyone is enjoying there compass I am at 281 hours now and loving every minute of it. As far as the signal cutting in and out that sounds like the signal quality is low for some reason. If you ever seen the tv in digital when the signal goes bad it does the same thing. Check the wires and the connections. Could be that the wire went bad or even some strange interference. Try using the cable on something else if you only have one to see if the problem occurs there too.


----------



## Currawong

There are no extra pages, it's just a bug, which has now gone nuts and is showing pages that don't exist.


----------



## squall343

Anyone inform the mods yet?


----------



## Currawong

I've let Jude know.


----------



## direcow

woah yeah... this thread is knackered.


----------



## zeroibis

Yea... looks like executing "Rebuild Thread Information" under the maintenance tab should fix it. On a forum this large probably will take a lot of time and cpu so they probably will not run it until night time and close the forums for a bit. Hopefully everything will be normal tomorrow


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch! That's gotta hurt. I guess Andrea calls 'em like he sees 'em.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nah...doesn't bother me at all once you consider the source of the BS.

 Peete.


----------



## Superfrag

First I thought my net started hating me for the time I spent on this thread!!
 lol, anyways spending so much time has given me an idea of what to expect, my compass will be coming in a few days, cant wait!!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Aye, been screwy for me for the last couple of days. The same time the "bar" moved from the left to the right... I keep getting infinite redirects and whatnot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## AdminTest

2009-06-08 2339 EDT: Test post of response in existing thread.

 Keywords: pagination error, page count


----------



## Currawong

You can see what's gone wrong in Safari 4 easily: Page 510 or so is attempted to be loaded, but since it isn't there, it tries to load page 509, which isn't there either. Rinse and repeat until you hit the limit of redirects before the browser (?) bails out.

 Anyway, I know what's broken and so does Jude. I'm waiting to see if starting a new Compass thread is necessary or not.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeroibis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea... looks like executing "Rebuild Thread Information" under the maintenance tab should fix it. On a forum this large probably will take a lot of time and cpu so they probably will not run it until night time and close the forums for a bit. Hopefully everything will be normal tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

IMO, it's been rebuilt, but it's not factoring in all the posts that have been removed. I'm an admin elsewhere, and we never delete anything because of this - offending posts are just dumped into a hidden, silent forum.

 Of course, I may be completely wrong...

 ~Phewl.


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## ScottieB

That makes sense, Phewl, but then why would it just crop up as a problem now? Who knows how many Andrea posts have been deleted over the months...


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## AudioPhewl

Ah, but who knows when it was rebuilt? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My money - all £1.42 of it - is on the rebuild being run within these last few days, at which point the problems started...

 ~Phewl.


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## zeroibis

I think I might check though the docs and look around in the vbulletin forums about this. I would think a program as expensive as this would patch a glitch like that. Especially because it is used on such big forums. Also if it really is a problem I would need to adjust my forums as to not have the same problem down the road. 

 So now that I am at the 328 mark I got a question, how long does it take for just the OPA to burn in. I now want to start burning in the moon and then the sun. Unfortunately, my quiet computer is still dead in the water so I am just trucking along in the burn in hoping to get that dam thing fixed so I can really enjoy my music.


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## Currawong

I've started a new thread here for the Compass. Please use it instead. I'm going to request this thread now be closed by a mod.


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## BmWr75

Posting to subscribe since this new BB software is busted.


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## les_garten

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Posting to subscribe since this new BB software is busted.


 

 You're on the wrong thread, read the post above yours!


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## MarChi

does anyone known that es9018 dac module will compatable with old compass 384


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