# Need Help Choosing Bookshelf Speakers



## Timinich

I'm getting my first "serious" two-channel system and would like some help choosing speakers. I'd like to keep it under $500 for the pair.  The system will be used in a small living room and will be used almost exclusively for music. I listen to mainly alt. rock, with a healthy dose of jazz, and I listen to classical while studying.  In this price range, I was originally looking at B&W 686 ($480), which I've listened to and like, but I also found Polk's LSi7 for sale for on ebay $400, new from Polk with warranty, etc.
   
  From what I've read, the LSi7s sound great and are a steal at this price, but I'm a little worried about buying speakers I've never listened to (and can't anywhere near where I live). They also have a reputation of being hard to drive. They're rated at 20-150W at 4Ohm, and the Amp I'm planning on buying is a NuForce DDA-100 and puts out 75W/channel at 4 Ohm, and I won't be playing them that loud in my small room, so I think I'm OK.
   
  That's what I'm looking at so far, but I'm also open to other suggestions for speakers. What does everyone think?


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## PurpleAngel

You might get some great speaker advice on Head-Fi.
  Also try posting your home audio questions on the AVforum & AVSforum websites.


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## blazer78

How large is your living room? you might want to bump up to the 685 if your budget allows this. Otherwise you can get a good filling sound with the addition of a subwoofer to the 686. They are a decent entry level bookshelves.


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## RonaldDumsfeld

A lot of people these days are moving away from old school passive systems and using active monitors originally designed for studio or other professional audio applications. You might want to take a look at what is available before making a final decision.
   
  The most well known manufacturer is Genelec who pretty much invented the concept twenty years ago. More recently ADAM audio have enjoyed massive success due to the incredible price/performance ratio of their AnX series. Other companies you might want to look at at the higher end of the market are Focal, Neumann KH and Event. If money is tight KRK and Fostex have good reputations for the price.
   
  For $500 these would be my recommendation. http://www.adam-audio.com/en/pro-audio/products/a3x/technical-data
   
  Get the matching sub later if you felt you needed it.
   
  If you really feel you must have something with a lower frequency response now then consider. http://www.krksys.com/krk-studio-monitor-speakers/rokit/rokit-8.html
   
  Top Tip: Try and avoid the temptation to go much below 40KHz in a domestic setting. The low bass energy can cause more problems than it is worth without expensive room treatment and is always a potential nuisance for neighbours/family members. Better to have a sub for if and when you need it - then turn it off late at night.


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## goodvibes

Not a problem as nothing decent under $500 goes much below 40hz. Epos just discontinued their Epic models which were $600 and $800 respectively. Both have tight bass and are revealing and neutral with quite boxes. Maybe you can find a deal on a VG product.


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## Lenni

Quote: 





goodvibes said:


> Not a problem as nothing decent under $500 goes much below 40hz. Epos just discontinued their Epic models which were $600 and $800 respectively. Both have tight bass and are revealing and neutral with quite boxes. Maybe you can find a deal on a VG product.


 
   
Demo - are they any good?  I read a couple of not so favorable comments on the Epic 1 , fwiw.


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## yage

75 W is plenty in a small space. You might also want to consider a used NAD / Cambridge Audio / Rotel integrated amp. Also Paradigm (Mini Monitor), PSB (Image B6), Music Hall (Marimba) have been well-reviewed for small speakers.
  Quote: 





ronalddumsfeld said:


> Top Tip: Try and avoid the temptation to go much below 40KHz in a domestic setting. The low bass energy can cause more problems than it is worth without expensive room treatment and is always a potential nuisance for neighbours/family members. Better to have a sub for if and when you need it - then turn it off late at night.


 
   
  I think the poster meant 40 Hz here. The rest of the tip doesn't make sense to me as a sub would play sounds below 40 Hz. 
   
  Use the following as starting points to help place your speakers / listening position:
   
  http://www.stereophile.com/reference/1008speaks/
   
  http://www.psbspeakers.com/articles/Speaker-Placement-Tips-for-Real-Sound


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## trog

Hmm if Fry's an option those LSi7s are $199!
  http://www.frys.com/product/3586944?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
  also i am assuming these are for PC Audio/nearfield : u dun need a beefy amp even for the above speakers


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## Lenni

EPOS EPIC 2 ($399.00) !
   
Stereophile reviews


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## RonaldDumsfeld

Quote: 





> the tip doesn't make sense to me as a sub would play sounds below 40 Hz.


 
   
  Well the point is with a separate sub you can turn it off or turn it down and placement is not such a big issue as there is only a single driver which is indepenent of the mids/highs as far as location is concerned. The ADAM sub 7 'only' goes down to 32Hz. which as the open E string on a bass guitar is far enough.,


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## yage

Quote: 





ronalddumsfeld said:


> Well the point is with a separate sub you can turn it off or turn it down and placement is not such a big issue as there is only a single driver which is indepenent of the mids/highs as far as location is concerned. The ADAM sub 7 'only' goes down to 32Hz. which as the open E string on a bass guitar is far enough.,


 
   


 Typically bass problems result from standing waves and reflections which are a function of frequency and room dimensions as well as distance from room boundaries. Therefore, you can have problems at frequencies higher than what using a subwoofer would 'solve'.
   
  My suggestion is to read through the following when looking for a starting point with respect to speaker placement:
   
  http://www.psbspeakers.com/articles/Speaker-Placement-Tips-for-Real-Sound
   
  http://www.stereophile.com/reference/1008speaks/


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## mibutenma

If your really liked the B&W already and feel they are good price you might want to buy them not to say you can't like something better if you really like the sound then you already got something some people don't.
  But here some suggestions of other speakers in that price range.
   
  Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 or 10.2
 http://www.musicdirect.com/p-15476-wharfedale-diamond-101-bookshelf-speaker-pr.aspx?source=igodigital&

 Focal 706 or 705
 http://www.musicdirect.com/p-41246-focal-chorus-706v-bookshelf-speakers-pr.aspx

 Mordaunt Short Aviano 1 or 2
 hideflifestyle.com
 audioadvisor.com
 dedicatedaudio.com

 Dali Zensor 1
 dedicatedaudio
 hideflifestyle

 NHT Classic Aboslute Zero
  nhthifi.com
 nht themselves give free shipping and free return shipping.

 PSB Image B5 or the Alpha B1
 crutchfield or audioadvisor

 Monitor Audio Bronze BX 1 or BX 2
 audioadvisor.com
   
  Epos Epic 1 or 2
  musicdirect.com

 there are also internet direct speaker companies with bookshelf speakers
 http://emptek.com/index.php
 http://www.ascendacoustics.com/
 http://www.htd.com/#&panel1-1


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## mrpink44

lenni said:


> EPOS EPIC 2 ($399.00) !
> 
> Stereophile reviews



 
 I jumped on this deal and got the Epos Epic 2's in yesterday afternoon. Wow - they are everything they are cracked up to be, and for $400 an incredible steal. Epos recommends 24-36 hours of burn in, but after just a few hours they really started to sing. The bass is still a little cloudy, but after only 4 hours of listening, I expect it to still tighten up. The highs were nowhere near as strident as I thought they'd be right out of the box (and as I'd read in some reviews). I listened to the following albums using my Rega RP1 and Little Dot MK IV SE as a pre-amp: Mingus Ah Um; Dexter Gordon - Go; Dave Douglas - Be Still; Fiona Apple - Idler Wheel.....; Hendrix - Axis: Bold as Love; Harper/Musselwhite - Get Up Everytime I tried to do something else, like check the internet, the music would pull me back in, slap me, and say "pay attention." As soon as I finished the Harper/Musselwhite album, I wanted to flip it back to side 1 and re-drop the needle. The slide guitar, harmonica, and voices sounded rich and accurate. I was also fairly surprised at how accurate Mingus' bass sounded considering it was the first music played through the speakers. The timbre was spot on. I read a comment that these are floor standers disguised as bookshelf speakers and that seems appropriate! The soundstage, imaging, and instrument seperation were amazing. So far, I feel like these would be worth every penny of the original $800 pricetag.......but for $400, a steal.


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## blazer78

Quote: 





mrpink44 said:


> I read a comment that these are floor standers disguised as bookshelf speakers and that seems appropriate!


 
   
  lol, I need to have a listen to these floor standers in disguise


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## ProtegeManiac

Quote: 





mibutenma said:


> Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 or 10.2
> http://www.musicdirect.com/p-15476-wharfedale-diamond-101-bookshelf-speaker-pr.aspx?source=igodigital&
> 
> Focal 706 or 705
> http://www.musicdirect.com/p-41246-focal-chorus-706v-bookshelf-speakers-pr.aspx


 
   
   
  Quote: 





lenni said:


> EPOS EPIC 2 ($399.00) !
> 
> Stereophile reviews


 
   
  Among these I'd say the Epic2s are the best value. I wouldn't even consider the Diamonds at this price range, but do take note here in SEAsia I can get those for around $175 and for $300 I was able to get the Pacific Evo10's, so that might be skewing my judgment (they're extremely good value for $175 though, beat only by local low volume speaker makers/DIY-ers; others are cheaper online but shipping going here plus customs can double the price).
   
  If my own personal preferences are concerned, I'd go for the Focals - I tried my NAD304 with them and the sound was fantastic. Very dynamic, with the right source (at the time the best I tried was the Arcam CD72 followed by the Cayin CD50T) no notes were overdone but it was by no means "boring" as the bass slammed hard yet very fast. The combo was more sensitive to cables than others I've tried though - this was on the horrendously priced, $10/ft Chord Silvers; a thick, dual 12ga copper/terminal braided cable (forgot the brand but the model was "Livewire," and no it's not the brand) was too bassy (friend gave it as a freebie with some other stuff, supposedly horrendously priced when new), and my Belden 12ga coppers at $2/meter were actually making the second most even sound (ha! beat that, expensive cables!).
   
  I didn't go home with the Focals though, and sat on it despite the sale price. A year and a half later I got the HD600 and new pads, and I'm still happy. Not going back to a speaker set-up until I rebuild one of the rooms to be dedicated for audio, but I still hang around the hi-fi stores once in a while to chat with the owners and listen to what they have.


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## barid

Quote: 





protegemaniac said:


> Among these I'd say the Epic2s are the best value. I wouldn't even consider the Diamonds at this price range, but do take note here in SEAsia I can get those for around $175 and for $300 I was able to get the Pacific Evo10's, so that might be skewing my judgment (they're extremely good value for $175 though, beat only by local low volume speaker makers/DIY-ers; others are cheaper online but shipping going here plus customs can double the price).


 
   
  Stumbled on this thread with a similar issue.  Just tried out a pair of the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1's (returned) and then 10.0's, but I'm not really liking them. They were bought as a replacement for a 10+ year old set of Cambridge Soundworks computer speakers I've finally decided to scrap.  Most of the reviews I saw online had them as solid performers but they sound very muddy to me.  Tempted to go with those active adam a3x's next.


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## ProtegeManiac

Quote: 





barid said:


> Stumbled on this thread with a similar issue.  Just tried out a pair of the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1's (returned) and then 10.0's, but I'm not really liking them. They were bought as a replacement for a 10+ year old set of Cambridge Soundworks computer speakers I've finally decided to scrap.  Most of the reviews I saw online had them as solid performers but they sound very muddy to me.  Tempted to go with those active adam a3x's next.


 
   
  From my experience Wharfedales are picky with amps - what you save on them, especially with SEA prices, easily goes into the amps. I did alright because at the time I got my Diamond 8.1's for $99 (followed later by 8.4, then finally the Pacific Pi10's, in the interim got to try out the others) I stumbled on a factory sale for sealed box NAD304's for around $85, and it ran all of them (pretty much anything I hooked up to them, including Dyns) beautifully. They need some _break_-in* to loosen up the mechanical parts but nothing like what people here do with K701s.
   
  Other than NAD** I've liked some high-ouput T-Amps on them. Low power models have great detail and soundstage, and do alright at 1m, but at regular speaker set-up distance they tend to lack the oomph needed for grander presentations. Did well with, for example, audiophile CD tracks with one vocalist and an acoustic band; came up waaay short with symphonic and prog metal as the percussion seemed to lack energy and the multiple instruments playing gets muddled up in the details (you can't follow fast guitar riffs and violin strokes, etc, but I can easily do that on the NAD).
   
  I'd hazard a guess those Adam active monitors would be a good choice. BTW, what source are you using? And what amp did you use with the Wharfedales?
   


 *I'm not kidding, at some point the 8.1 totally went from boring flat with muddy bass to warm with solid bass after a few hours of listening, then I went back to the previous tracks, and it sounds different. Ran it overnight, left for work, powered up the system and listened again, still flat but muddy; then while I was getting a bottle of beer, it switched to the next track and it sounds different. Went back to the previous tracks and it really was different.
   
  **save for the 315, they're thin yet muddy with that


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## barid

Quote: 





protegemaniac said:


> I'd hazard a guess those Adam active monitors would be a good choice. BTW, what source are you using? And what amp did you use with the Wharfedales?


 
   
  I've got everything running usb from my computer into the DACmini PX right now.  I prefer the Soloist as a headphone amp by a small margin but I wanted everything integrated into 1 compact desktop rig. 
   
  The Wharfedales are brand new, and I don't have them on stands off my desk yet, so that may be contributing to the poor sound.  So I'm planning on giving them a week or so burn in, and putting some of that auralex mopad foam under them.  But if nothing changes I'll probably sell them off at a slight loss.


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## ev13wt

Genelec all the way.


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## cel4145

barid said:


> Stumbled on this thread with a similar issue.  Just tried out a pair of the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1's (returned) and then 10.0's, but I'm not really liking them. They were bought as a replacement for a 10+ year old set of Cambridge Soundworks computer speakers I've finally decided to scrap.  Most of the reviews I saw online had them as solid performers but they sound very muddy to me.  Tempted to go with those active adam a3x's next.




If you want something in the same budget range for passive speakers, I can suggest the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SEs. Very neutral sound, and the 6.5" driver has excellent transient response, giving them very good clarity in the mids and midbass. The SEAS tweeter is the same brand (but better quality) than the one used in the NHT Classic Threes. 



barid said:


> The Wharfedales are brand new, and I don't have them on stands off my desk yet, so that may be contributing to the poor sound.  So I'm planning on giving them a week or so burn in, and putting some of that auralex mopad foam under them.  But if nothing changes I'll probably sell them off at a slight loss.




I've been told by a speaker designer that the mopads don't do what people claim about resonance. If your desktop surface itself is vibrating, it can help with that. But otherwise, should not make a difference in SQ based on the absorption claims. The bigger advantage is that they can angle the tweeters at your ears. If you don't have the mopads yet, try some books and raise them up to ear height. That can give you some perspective on whether or not placement is your problem.


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## Destroysall

Quote: 





timinich said:


> I'm getting my first "serious" two-channel system and would like some help choosing speakers. I'd like to keep it under $500 for the pair.  The system will be used in a small living room and will be used almost exclusively for music. I listen to mainly alt. rock, with a healthy dose of jazz, and I listen to classical while studying.  In this price range, I was originally looking at B&W 686 ($480), which I've listened to and like, but I also found Polk's LSi7 for sale for on ebay $400, new from Polk with warranty, etc.
> 
> From what I've read, the LSi7s sound great and are a steal at this price, but I'm a little worried about buying speakers I've never listened to (and can't anywhere near where I live). They also have a reputation of being hard to drive. They're rated at 20-150W at 4Ohm, and the Amp I'm planning on buying is a NuForce DDA-100 and puts out 75W/channel at 4 Ohm, and I won't be playing them that loud in my small room, so I think I'm OK.
> 
> That's what I'm looking at so far, but I'm also open to other suggestions for speakers. What does everyone think?


 

 Take reviews with a grain of salt.  Remember, these are your ears and not ours.  Everyone, believe it or not, hears differently.  I would recommend checking out local speaker dealers and take with you the music you know best and do a demo.  For one, you support local businesses and you can choose carefully.  If you have listened to the B&W and enjoyed the sound thoroughly, then maybe the B&W is for you.
   
  Best of luck,
  Destroysall


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## winsorbeach

I got the same deal on the Epic 2s from Music Direct - $399 and I've had them for about three weeks now. I have listened to them quite a bit at all different volumes, different types of music and formats - i.e.: vinyl and mp3s through my Marantz DAC. First, I have to say, at that price these things are a total deal and I would encourage anyone to get them. With that said, I do wonder at their original price of $799 if there aren't other equal or better options. 
  
 Most of the reviews I've read of the Epic 2s are pretty much glowing, but perhaps the only consistent "criticism" is that while they are incredibly "fun" to listen to, in striving for the wow factor they can be a little too playful… I am imagining  a cute puppy who bites to much. Interestingly, the criticisms have been more of their brightness (and they are bright), and reviewers have been unanimously complimentary of their base - describing it as "defined and punchy". I will say that they are indeed bassy, and often deliciously so, but my one concern from the first listen has been the lack of "definition" - i.e.: cloudy rumble of the bass on certain tracks at high volume. I read in the manual that EPOS recommends a break in period and they specifically mention the bass in this regard. I've listened to them quite a bit now and feel that I have noticed a real improvement, but they still do seem to get a little cloudy at times.
  
 I notice that Mr. Pink said the same thing up above so I sent him a message asking if his improved. I hope to hear back.
  
 Hope this helps prospective buyers. They are pretty freaking amazing.


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## screwdriver

check out some used silverline bookshelf speakers at audiogon . IMO they are excellent and easy to drive .
 i use a pair of silverline 11 and im using a sophia electric el34 amp with only 35 per channel . amazing !!!


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## DarKen23

Infinity Primus P163, best 80.00 speakers you could buy imo. Read the reviews around em, if your budget is low the P163 is a no-brainer.


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