# Nichicon Muse KZ Series cap vs ELNA SilmicII cap, which one is better?



## applegd

Here is the specs for Nichicon Muse KZ and ELNA Silmic II.






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 From the specs, these two series caps looks in same grade, For rated voltage=50V, the both series caps' Tangent of loss angle is 0.08. So can I assume they have almost same quality? 

 Here are the links to complete specs list:

 Nichicon Muse KZ: 
http://nichicon-us.com/english/seihin/pdfs/e-kz.pdf

 ELNA Silmic II:
http://www.elna-america.com/products...es/AL/RFSe.pdf

 There is one comment makes me wondering whether ELNA silmic II cap worth the price it asks for. It said "Silk fiber dielectric electrolytic capacitor. 
 Smoother warmer tone than traditional electrolyics (no peakiness on the top end). "

 Thanks for help in advance!


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## ericj

I, for one, am not sure i can tell the difference between 25v Silmic II's and 63v Nichicon UPW's in my millett. 

 Yeah, I said UPW, not even KZ. 

 As for the silk fibers: Here's a short lesson in electrolytics. 

 All aluminum electrolytic capacitors contain aluminum foil, electrolyte fluid, and some crud. 

 The crud is basically filler. Since the electrolyte is a fluid, you need to mix some crud into it in order to maintain a uniform gap between layers of aluminum. 

 Usually this crud is phenolic resin. In Cerafines it's a ceramic powder. In Black Gates it's charcoal. And in Silmic II's it's silk fibers. 

 But it's all basically crud, and what sort of crud it is can't possibly matter very much because the dielectric in an electrolytic cap isn't the electrolyte OR the crud - it's the layer of oxide on the aluminum that forms because of the presence of the electrolyte. 

 This in no way detracts from the quality of the Silmic II. I have no complaints. It's a darn good audio capacitor. 

 Just don't get sucked in by the hype. The silk is just filler. The fact that it's silk rather than, oh, lets say extruded polyester (And there are some DAMN exotic extruded polyester fibers available), is really good for marketing to the masses.


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## splaz

What do you mean by "worth the price it asks for" ?

 I've found the Elna RFS from digikey to be really cheap, same price as no name brand caps that aren't even audio line I can get locally.


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## tomb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *splaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you mean by "worth the price it asks for" ?

 I've found the Elna RFS from digikey to be really cheap, same price as no name brand caps that aren't even audio line I can get locally._

 

That may be true in your locale, Splaz, but the Elna's are 3 times the price of Panasonic FM's in the same DigiKey catalog. That's still not too bad, granted - unlike Black Gates, which can run into a few dozen dollars in the sizes we use.

 I generally agree with what Ericj says. You may be able to tell a difference if you populated an entire board with one brand, and then compared it against another. Trouble is, if those caps are out of the signal path, the cheaper ones like UPW's or FM's may sound better.

 Personally, I think anything more than Nichicon UPW/UHE or Panasonic FM/FC is a waste unless it's in the signal path - then things are much different.


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## HIPPOhifi

We use both in The Bloat (our USB DAC/Amp combo). Our standard option uses a couple of Nichicon's KZs with a few Elna Silmic IIs, the upgraded option use more capacitance but all are Elna Silmic's IIs. 

 We found in this configuration the standard providing the best bass extension, but there is more detail in the upgraded model.

 If you are considering any kind of bulk quantity I can recommend: https://www.hndme.com/productcart/pc/viewCat.asp

 Hope this helps

 cheers,
 Brent


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## picklgreen

The debate on which boutique electrolyte is "best" has been debated on this forum and others since the beginning of the internet! All capacitors regardless of brand sound different. There are caps that are best suited for a certain circuit but there is definetly no "best" sounding capacitor! You have to use your own ears to decide! Specs are not going to tell you how a cap sounds based on another cap with similiar specs, just as looking at ingredients over one brand of coffee over another is going to tell you how it "tastes"! Some people prefer the sound of Elna cerfines, other hate it and prefer the sound the Blackgate's. I even have some of those nichicon muse caps. Just buy a few of each type and try them for yourself. What sounds good to one person isnt always what sounds good to you! Take Krell and Mark Levinson amps. I have owned both. Both cost the same ($9000), both have similiar specs (300 watts into 8 ohms), both even weigh about the same (150 pounds). BUT, they both sound completly different!

 Part of the enjoyment of DIY audio is not only building your own amps, but also trying different brands and values of components yourself to see what sound better/worse/different! Over time you will also find that most amps use similiar values for caps so you can start buying a supply of caps from different vendors (470uf, 1000uf, 1uf, .1uf) in various voltages so you can swap in different caps to your hearts content!

 Oh and BTW the blackgate standard series sound better than either the nichicon or elna cerafines. The Blackgate FK are even better still.


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## applegd

Thanks very much for all the replies!! I appreciate.


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## splaz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That may be true in your locale, Splaz, but the Elna's are 3 times the price of Panasonic FM's in the same DigiKey catalog. That's still not too bad, granted - unlike Black Gates, which can run into a few dozen dollars in the sizes we use._

 

Well in the ones I wanted, low capacitance though, are out of stock, the RFS are 9c each, FC 14c.

 I know FM is cheaper than FC but to me they aren't all that expensive compared to the more 'boutique' caps. They do get pretty expensive at higher values though, but as said they're of most benefit in the signal path anyway, you don't need real high capacitance so the cost really is negligible at low values.


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