# ~$2000 Speaker Budget (Considering a B&W 600 Series, thoughts?)



## MorbidToaster

Alright. I spent some time in a Magnolia room a few days ago and decided I wanted to get some good backing for my speaker system as well as my headphone system.
   
  I think I'll be pushing these with a Marantz 2238 (when and if I can get it redone properly).
   
  I'm using my vintage JBL 4301Bs right now but I've loved all the B&Ws I've heard and the 683 pair seems like it's at a good price for me (~1500 for the pair).
   
  I of course know there's more options out there in the price range I'm just not sure where to start with speakers.


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## liamstrain

If you are open to pre-loved, you might consider a set of used Thiel 3.6's
   
  example:
  http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1326146601&/Thiel-CS-3.6-Walnut


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## MorbidToaster

I'd consider it if I was dropping the money right now but this is more a scouting thread rather than a buying immediately thread.
   
  I'm not opposed to used gear suggestions but it would need to be something that hits the used market fairly regularly.
  
  Quote: 





liamstrain said:


> If you are open to pre-loved, you might consider a set of used Thiel 3.6's
> 
> example:
> http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1326146601&/Thiel-CS-3.6-Walnut


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## liamstrain

I do see those crop up on Audiogon pretty often at around that price ... the SQ at that price will be hard to beat, IMO.


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## mibutenma

PSB,Paradigm,Energy and since you already like the British B&W look into Monitor Audio and Mordaunt Short


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## Shike

Definitely give Paradigm and Martin Logan a shot.


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## MorbidToaster

I love doing research. Paradigm is a name I see a lot around here so I'm looking forward to checking them out especially.

  
  Quote: 





mibutenma said:


> PSB,Paradigm,Energy and since you already like the British B&W look into Monitor Audio and Mordaunt Short


 
  Quote: 





shike said:


> Definitely give Paradigm and Martin Logan a shot.


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## Pricklely Peete

Some used Maggie 1.6QR's are unbeatable speakers..the B&W's are quite a bit different than the JBL's from a voicing standpoint whereas the Maggies/ET's are in a league all their own. If you have the space and amps for the 1.6QR's I'd not look at anything else....you can get yourself a great used set with Mye or Sound Anchor stands for roughly 1100 USD. They come up quite often on Audiogon and have good resale value.
   
  Eminent Technology LFT- VIIIbs are also another outstanding value on the used market. I have both types of speaker (ET and Magneplanars) in my setup in a stacked array and I will never go back to regular dynamic speakers again. I'm hooked. They do require some space however which is the only drawback to these dipole types.
   
  Peete.


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## MorbidToaster

God Maggies are sexy. I could run a Pre-amp to my (could be mine for free anyway) Carver power amp, but I'm not sure if the Carver is really up to standard for a set up like this. 
  
  I really enjoyed the B&Ws in the Magnolia room but next time I go in I'm bringing my own test material and hand picking the stuff they push it with to get a better idea of the speakers sound rather than the rest.
  Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> Some used Maggie 1.6QR's are unbeatable speakers..the B&W's are quite a bit different than the JBL's from a voicing standpoint whereas the Maggies/ET's are in a league all their own. If you have the space and amps for the 1.6QR's I'd not look at anything else....you can get yourself a great used set with Mye or Sound Anchor stands for roughly 1100 USD. They come up quite often on Audiogon and have good resale value.
> 
> Eminent Technology LFT- VIIIbs are also another outstanding value on the used market. I have both types of speaker (ET and Magneplanars) in my setup in a stacked array and I will never go back to regular dynamic speakers again. I'm hooked. They do require some space however which is the only drawback to these dipole types.
> 
> Peete.


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## Shike

The push-pull Magnepans are indeed nice to listen to, assuming you like their dispersion characteristics.  They're definitely placement critical - same for the Martin Logans though.


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## Uncle Erik

Maggies! If you have a room that suits them they're wonderful.

Electrostats are terrific, but I think a level of masochism - or at least a desire to suffer for art - is a part of ownership. I'm tolerating a little hiss and spit with the ESL-63s. Sooner or later, I need to learn how to stretch thin pieces of Mylar with weights attached. Or maybe that board with the bicycle tube that can be inflated to tension the panels is a better idea. I am trying to think of it as an adventure.

Though I have noticed that ProAc Response 2.5 speakers have dipped below $2k on Audiogon. My clones are still keeping me happy. The bass is tuneful and freakishly deep. They image _almost_ as well as the Quads and the crossover is almost seamless. They're not as resolving as 'stats or good headphones, but they're so much fun to listen to. The EL34s in my amp make them a little sweet and fatigue-free. They're easy to leave on all day and tunefully bump when it's time to crank them up. If you can find a pair, I highly recommend them. Take a look at some reviews - people really enjoy these speakers.


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## MorbidToaster

My concern is space and power. I just don't think a redone 2238 would do Maggies justice. It's a decent amount of power, but I still don't think it'd be enough...
   
  Plus I do live in an apartment so the space isn't exactly the best.
  
  Quote: 





uncle erik said:


> Maggies! If you have a room that suits them they're wonderful.
> 
> Electrostats are terrific, but I think a level of masochism - or at least a desire to suffer for art - is a part of ownership. I'm tolerating a little hiss and spit with the ESL-63s. Sooner or later, I need to learn how to stretch thin pieces of Mylar with weights attached. Or maybe that board with the bicycle tube that can be inflated to tension the panels is a better idea. I am trying to think of it as an adventure.
> 
> Though I have noticed that ProAc Response 2.5 speakers have dipped below $2k on Audiogon. My clones are still keeping me happy. The bass is tuneful and freakishly deep. They image _almost_ as well as the Quads and the crossover is almost seamless. They're not as resolving as 'stats or good headphones, but they're so much fun to listen to. The EL34s in my amp make them a little sweet and fatigue-free. They're easy to leave on all day and tunefully bump when it's time to crank them up. If you can find a pair, I highly recommend them. Take a look at some reviews - people really enjoy these speakers.


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## LostArk

Monitor Audio RX6's ($1200/pair) simply dominate any other speakers under $2000 in my opinion.
   
  I actually almost got a pair of B&W 683's until I head the Monitors. Audition them before you buy anything.


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## MorbidToaster

That's the other problem. I'd be making blind buys unless it's in a Magnolia room (for the most part). There's a few places in town I need to visit and do some listening but none of them are Monitor dealers (or Maggies, etc.).
  
  Quote: 





lostark said:


> Monitor Audio RX6's ($1200/pair) simply dominate any other speakers under $2000 in my opinion.
> 
> I actually almost got a pair of B&W 683's until I head the Monitors. Audition them before you buy anything.


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## LostArk

I was lucky that I had a local Monitor dealer. The finish on the RX6's is much nicer than the 683's in my opinion, as well; real wood veneers, magnetic grilles so when you remove them for listening there's no unsightly holes in the cabinet, the corners are rounded etc. I'm so confident the RX6's are better or at least as good as the 683's that I can recommend you buy them even if you have to make a blind purchase. That being said, I'm just a guy on the internet so it's up to you how much weight you want to give to my opinion. The 683's would by my second choice hands down, so you really can't lose whatever you decide on.


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## MorbidToaster

There's one about 20 miles from me that I may be able to make it to later this week. I'll give them a call and see if they have the RX6 before I head that way. Magnolia rooms have Martin Logans and B&Ws. I'll give some of the shops around here a call and see what else I can demo in the next few weeks.

  
  Quote: 





lostark said:


> I was lucky that I had a local Monitor dealer. The finish on the RX6's is much nicer than the 683's in my opinion, as well; real wood veneers, magnetic grilles so when you remove them for listening there's no unsightly holes in the cabinet, the corners are rounded etc. I'm so confident the RX6's are better or at least as good as the 683's that I can recommend you buy them even if you have to make a blind purchase. That being said, I'm just a guy on the internet so it's up to you how much weight you want to give to my opinion. The 683's would by my second choice hands down, so you really can't lose whatever you decide on.


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## roark37

I had a similar question but was considering bookshelf speakers in the 5-700 range but from many of the same brands mentioned in this thread.  I was considering B&W 685's, PSB Image B6, and a Focal pair in that price range.  Would any of those or any others in that price range be recommended?  I also wondered if any of those bookshelf pairs would be enough on their own with no sub in a decent size(maybe 15x15 but with cutouts to dining room and hallways upstairs and down townhouse style with cathedral ceiling) living room?  This is for music only and I listen to a wide range from vocalists like Bocelli, Streisand, some instrumentals, but also classic rock like Boston, AC/DC but no rap or electronic music.  I have never had a sub but was not sure if I should add one or upgrade my speakers?   Would you generally recommend a sub for music and is it needed in a room of my size to get more full sound?  I would probably prefer not to use a sub as I think I may find it a hassle as I like the simplicity of just two channel but if needed I would give it a try?  Thanks.


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## MorbidToaster

Subs can be very subtle devices. Kids will crank them up and marvel at the bass, but even just a little bump from a sub brings a lot of life to the music. They're a good investment if you've got the room for one. That's just my experience.
  
  Quote: 





roark37 said:


> I had a similar question but was considering bookshelf speakers in the 5-700 range but from many of the same brands mentioned in this thread.  I was considering B&W 685's, PSB Image B6, and a Focal pair in that price range.  Would any of those or any others in that price range be recommended?  I also wondered if any of those bookshelf pairs would be enough on their own with no sub in a decent size(maybe 15x15 but with cutouts to dining room and hallways upstairs and down townhouse style with cathedral ceiling) living room?  This is for music only and I listen to a wide range from vocalists like Bocelli, Streisand, some instrumentals, but also classic rock like Boston, AC/DC but no rap or electronic music.  I have never had a sub but was not sure if I should add one or upgrade my speakers?   Would you generally recommend a sub for music and is it needed in a room of my size to get more full sound?  I would probably prefer not to use a sub as I think I may find it a hassle as I like the simplicity of just two channel but if needed I would give it a try?  Thanks.


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## LostArk

Quote: 





roark37 said:


> I had a similar question but was considering bookshelf speakers in the 5-700 range but from many of the same brands mentioned in this thread.  I was considering B&W 685's, PSB Image B6, and a Focal pair in that price range.  Would any of those or any others in that price range be recommended?  I also wondered if any of those bookshelf pairs would be enough on their own with no sub in a decent size(maybe 15x15 but with cutouts to dining room and hallways upstairs and down townhouse style with cathedral ceiling) living room?  This is for music only and I listen to a wide range from vocalists like Bocelli, Streisand, some instrumentals, but also classic rock like Boston, AC/DC but no rap or electronic music.  I have never had a sub but was not sure if I should add one or upgrade my speakers?   Would you generally recommend a sub for music and is it needed in a room of my size to get more full sound?  I would probably prefer not to use a sub as I think I may find it a hassle as I like the simplicity of just two channel but if needed I would give it a try?  Thanks.


 

  
  Based on your taste you probably won't need a sub, but if you decide you want to fill out your low end I'd take a look at the Hsu Research STF-1 or STF-2, best subs you can get for the money. Since you said you prefer 2.0 stereos (as do I) think about getting a pair of floorstanding loudspeakers. I'm a basshead and I bought my RX6's with intent to add a sub later, but they really don't need one at all for music only. Wubwubwub.


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## roark37

Thanks for the replies.  Interesting you mention HSU because I was considering the STF-1 but also their bookshelf speakers.  Although more known for the subs on another av forum there are many rave reviews for HSU bookshelf's too.  I was also considering for only about $100 delivered from newegg the Polk PS10 sub.  I want to see how much of a difference a sub will make with my current bookshelf speakers but I don't know if that Polk will give a real idea or could possibly hurt the overall sound.  I would not think so but not really sure.
   
  The RX6 are Monitor Audio right?  I have never heard that brand but do they have a bookshelf pair in the $500 range that you would recommend?
   
  Thanks.


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## MorbidToaster

I contacted the only Monitor dealer around me via email today and he said the RX6 and RX 8 are their most popular models. Asked what finish I wanted and should get back to me on a demo time. The RX 8 is under budget (1800 a pair ish) so I'll comparing those to the 683 and making my choice.
   
  Excited for January.
  
  Quote: 





lostark said:


> Based on your taste you probably won't need a sub, but if you decide you want to fill out your low end I'd take a look at the Hsu Research STF-1 or STF-2, best subs you can get for the money. Since you said you prefer 2.0 stereos (as do I) think about getting a pair of floorstanding loudspeakers. I'm a basshead and I bought my RX6's with intent to add a sub later, but they really don't need one at all for music only. Wubwubwub.


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## mibutenma

Quote: 





roark37 said:


> The RX6 are Monitor Audio right?  I have never heard that brand but do they have a bookshelf pair in the $500 range that you would recommend?


 
  These are suppose to be pretty good.
  http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MRBBX2&variation=PWAL
  
  http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MRSRX1&variation=PBLKOAK
  This one cost more but it's the cheapest RX Bookself.
   
  What else you were looking into I don't know how the PSB T6 bookself are but I have the T6 towers and they are really great.


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## mibutenma

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I contacted the only Monitor dealer around me via email today and he said the RX6 and RX 8 are their most popular models. Asked what finish I wanted and should get back to me on a demo time. The RX 8 is under budget (1800 a pair ish) so I'll comparing those to the 683 and making my choice.
> 
> Excited for January.


 
  What color do you like?
   
  You could check them out here.
  http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MRSRX6&variation=EBLKOAK
  http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MRSRX8&variation=EBLKOAK
   
  I like the Natural Oak and Walnut.
  But any finish is a attractive looking speaker.


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## Stereodude

I'd definitely take a look at the Salk SongTower at $2k.


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## MorbidToaster

Black Oak all the way. I told him which one I wanted (I called it Black Ash ie. B&W but then corrected myself). The Oak is the only one dark enough to match the rest of my furniture and audio gear. 
   
  They're gorgeous speakers and I like the magnetic grills and silver cones all around vs the yellow one on the 683. After I hear them I'm sure it will solidify my RX8 purchase but I gotta hear them first.
  
  Quote: 





mibutenma said:


> What color do you like?
> 
> You could check them out here.
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MRSRX6&variation=EBLKOAK
> ...


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## mibutenma

You'll probably like the Monitor Audio better.
  Just from what I read people say B&W isn't really that great anymore and they just have the big name status reputation still that will take awhile to crumble.
  But the other British speakers Monitor Audio and Mordaunt Short are the ones to look into but I can't say for sure.
   
  I guess if you want to make sure you get the one you like absolutely best you might still want to tryout PSB and Paradigm besides the Monitor Audio.


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## ccklone

Hey Now,
   
  I just auditioned a pair of LSA1 Statement Monitors. I have been thinking about replacing my KEF Reference 103.2 and Polk SDA CRS+ in the main room. They sounded very good with the ribbon tweeter.I have seen them advertised on Audiogon for just under 2K. I also have some Paradigm, PSB and Energy in the house as well. The fit and finish on the LSA1 is lovely. They may be worth some consideration. You will need stands, so they may be out of your budget somewhat. Good luck in your search.
   
  --
  Finest kind,
 Chris


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## MorbidToaster

So I spent some more time in the Magnolia room today. I was going to try and listen to a Marantz PM8004, but they didn't have one so I decided to try the 683s again. They sounded good and then I tried the CM9 ($3000 pair) just for kicks...
   
  The CM9 sounded worse than the 683...The highs sounded very rolled off compared to the 683. There was more bass and much bigger soundstage but for an extra 1500 bucks I'd want more. 
   
  After this listening session I have a feeling I'll be going with the Monitor RX8s. The 683 isn't a bad speaker but it is leaving something to be desired.


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## robm321

Used Von Schweikert VR4jr's if you can find them


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## MorbidToaster

So I still haven't gotten to listen to the RX6 or RX8 yet but I juat sent an email to my local Magge dealer to see if they have a 1.6 and 1.7 for me to hear. As long as I get a decent pre i can use my father's Carver to push them until I get power of my own.
   
  Questions about the maggies though...how much room do they actually need and how much power is ideal? I'm in an apartment but I've got most if the space to myself so I think it'd be okay.


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## DaveBSC

Monitor Audio > B&W, no question. I know you have your choices narrowed down pretty well, but you really should consider two-way monitor in that price range. Stand mount two-ways work brilliantly in small to medium spaces, especially problematic spaces where planars and electrostats fall flat. The NOLA Boxer sells for $1500 last I checked, and sounds very good. The Merlin TSM is one of my favorites, but you'd need to find one used.
   
  You should also seriously consider the Vapor Sound Breeze. The Cirrus is arguably the best monitor under $10K, and if the Breeze is even half as good at $1250, it's a steal.


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## MorbidToaster

The biggest issue is what I am able to actually audition. Gotta admit that those Sehring TTVJ has on sale right now caught my eye. 
   
  I'm not opposed to anything, but stand costs must be considered in the budget as well. My current 4301Bs are on side tables that function as stands.
  
  Quote: 





davebsc said:


> Monitor Audio > B&W, no question. I know you have your choices narrowed down pretty well, but you really should consider two-way monitor in that price range. Stand mount two-ways work brilliantly in small to medium spaces, especially problematic spaces where planars and electrostats fall flat. The NOLA Boxer sells for $1500 last I checked, and sounds very good. The Merlin TSM is one of my favorites, but you'd need to find one used.
> 
> You should also seriously consider the Vapor Sound Breeze. The Cirrus is arguably the best monitor under $10K, and if the Breeze is even half as good at $1250, it's a steal.


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## mibutenma

MorbidToaster whenever you get to hear the Monitor Audio speakers I'd like to know your thoughts on them versus the B&W.


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## MorbidToaster

I have high hopes for the Monitors. I just need to get the email back from my local dealer and go have a listen.
  
  Quote: 





mibutenma said:


> MorbidToaster whenever you get to hear the Monitor Audio speakers I'd like to know your thoughts on them versus the B&W.


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## Guarneri

I saw this thread and felt obligated to share my experiences since I was in a similar situation till not too long ago. Keep in mind that I listen to some of everything, but mostly classical.
   
  I'm a single 22 year old girl who lives on the 2nd floor of an apartment complex. I moved in about 6 months ago after graduating college and immediately went to audition new speakers for my apartment. I listened to quite a few floorstanding speakers in the 1-3k range including the 683/684, CM9s, Magneplanar 1.6, Martin Logan electrostat hybrids, Paradigm Monitor 7/9s, and more. Eventually I bought the Martin Logan Source's for the detailed and fast mids-highs while still having a respectable woofer (although not as fast). They were also in the process of being discontinued and therefore offered at discounted prices.
   
  After 6 months, I decided that although the ML's were great speakers (especially for 1.5k), I really should have bought a pair of stand-mounted monitors instead of the big floorstanders. The advantages of stand-mounted monitors are numerous in an apartment setting:
  - Smaller/lighter boxes/packages
  - Often more detailed and cleaner in the mid-highs compared to similarly classed floorstanders
  - Bass is less likely to get you complaints from neighbors (I'm not a bass head and I don't play music at extremely loud volumes)
  - Much easier to pack/move/ship if need be (I consider this fairly important since people who live in apartments have a fairly high chances of moving in 1-3 years. Spending $500 to ship $1500 floorstanders would really suck.)
  - Generally cost less than the equivalent floorstanders
  - Matching sub can be added later on to achieve dynamic levels that are often on par or even superior to their floorstanding siblings
   
  So having made this list in my head, I went out in search of a monitor replacement for my floorstanders and ended up buying the Sonus Faber Guarneri Mementos (my budget was much larger this time around). So far I'm confident that I made the right decision for my situation... now just have to sell off my ML's


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





guarneri said:


> So having made this list in my head, I went out in search of a monitor replacement for my floorstanders and ended up buying the Sonus Faber Guarneri Mementos (my budget was much larger this time around). So far I'm confident that I made the right decision for my situation... now just have to sell off my ML's


 

 Nice. Not my favorite speaker (particularly at $15K/pr), but they certainly are pretty and do well with classical. As I've mentioned many times I'm a huge fan of two-way stand mount speakers, particularly in smaller spaces like apartments. Aside from the benefits you mentioned, two-way monitors in my experience simply excel at disappearing into the music, which is my favorite aspect of loudspeaker listening. Floorstanders with cabinets 3 or 4 times as large that use multi-driver arrays and much more complex crossovers have to work much harder to achieve the same goal. That being said, I think $5-10K is the sweetsport for stand-mount speakers - the Vapor Cirrus, Merlin TSM, and Joseph Pulsar being some of the very best in that category. When you get to $10K+, floorstanders start matching the imaging abilities of even the very best monitors, and the bass limitation of 40-50Hz becomes less excusable. 
   
  At the $15K level I'd be looking at the E-W Rosa Signature and Rockport Mira.


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## MorbidToaster

Okay so opening the floor to standing two ways (was never against them, but floor standers just caught my fancy) what would you recommend around 2k? Speakers only. 
   
  A sub would definitely be added later, and stands can be counted as an extra cost. 
   
  I'm currently using a pair of JBL 4301Bs which are 2 ways.


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## Guarneri

Some things to consider are:
  Paradigm Studio 20 and possibly Signature S2?
  Dynaaudio Focus 140
  Usher BE-718
  Ravel Peforma M22
  Bowers Wilkins CM and possibly 805 (non D)?
   
  There are a lot more choices i'm sure...


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## Uncle Erik

Look at the Zaph|Audio ZRT kit at Madisound.  About $1,600 with cabinets.  The drivers are about as good as you mll get at any price and those measurements are impeccable.  I'd buy them if I didn't already have a good 2-way floorstander.
   
  Which reminds me, check Audiogon to see if they have any ProAc Response 2.5 speakers.  I've seen them dip below $2k recently.  If they're anything like the cloned version (supposedly, they're very close) then you won't have any need for a subwoofer.  They can have your neighbors summon the police just fine by themselves.


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## DaveBSC

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Okay so opening the floor to standing two ways (was never against them, but floor standers just caught my fancy) what would you recommend around 2k? Speakers only.


 

 A Merlin TSM-MMi just came up and sold on Audiogon in less than a day. Amazing, the buyer definitely knew what a deal that was at $1500. There's another TSM, the MXE just listed for $1900. I highly recommend the TSM, it's one of my absolute favorite monitors. Merlins in general are just great speakers, they don't make a bad one. Also definitely worth a look is the Totem The One LE on there. Totem doesn't always get it right, but they did with that speaker. Guarneri mentioned the Usher Be-718 which is pretty common on the used market. Prices have dipped since the release of the DMD version, and it's worth considering.
   
  Other good choices are the LSA 1 Statement, PMC TB2i, and the Mark & Daniel Maximus. Lots of great stuff around the $1500-2000 mark right now.


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## mibutenma

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Okay so opening the floor to standing two ways (was never against them, but floor standers just caught my fancy) what would you recommend around 2k? Speakers only.
> 
> A sub would definitely be added later, and stands can be counted as an extra cost.
> 
> I'm currently using a pair of JBL 4301Bs which are 2 ways.


 
  http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MRGX100    Flagship (I think) bookself Monitor Audio.
   
  PSB Synchrony Two
  http://www.crutchfield.com/p_760SYN2BB/PSB-Synchrony-Two-B-Black-Ash.html?tp=186&avf=N&nvpair=FFBrand|PSB#overview-tab
   
  Way under budget but a possible try out fun Energy sale a near $1000 pair for $440.
 http://www.crutchfield.com/p_732V51B/Energy-Veritas-V-5-1-Black.html?tp=186&avf=N&nvpair=FFBrand|Energy


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## KevM2

You may want to look into the Evolution Acoustics MMMicro One when they come out.


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## cifani090

So why do you not want to go with your JBL's anymore? What about Zu? Any are you still considering B&W?


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## MorbidToaster

The JBL were my fathers and I'd like to build my own system.
   
  Haven't checked out Zu.
   
  Not really. Seems like they've tone downhill.
  
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> So why do you not want to go with your JBL's anymore? What about Zu? Any are you still considering B&W?


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## Jojomite

speaking of magneplans, u should consider the mini maggie system, its truly amazing for the price!


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