# Little Dot MKIII Tube Rolling



## RogerB

I have spent several hours today using the search feature to find a thread on tube rolling for the little dot mkiii but have had no luck finding one. There's one for every other tube amp in the world...but no mkiii.

 If I've missed it, please point me in the right direction.

 If there's not one, please post what tubes you most enjoy with your MKIII.

 I ordered an MKIII the other day and will be using the stock tubes for a while but will certainly want to roll some tubes at some point.

 So, c'mon....post me your favorites and tell us why you like them.


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## Bozz_Keren

you can replace the stock tubes with this:
 EF95, M8100, CV4010, 6J1 -- all with jumper off


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## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bozz_Keren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you can replace the stock tubes with this:
 EF95, M8100, CV4010, 6J1 -- all with jumper off_

 

Yes, all the tubes that can be used with the MKIII are listed on the ebay site. What I want to know is what tubes have people used with their MKIII and which configuration do they like the best...and why.


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## Bozz_Keren

oh, i'll be getting M8100 and EF95 in couple of days, will tell you the difference after burn-in


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## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have spent several hours today using the search feature to find a thread on tube rolling for the little dot mkiii but have had no luck finding one. There's one for every other tube amp in the world...but no mkiii.

 If I've missed it, please point me in the right direction.

 If there's not one, please post what tubes you most enjoy with your MKIII.

 I ordered an MKIII the other day and will be using the stock tubes for a while but will certainly want to roll some tubes at some point.

 So, c'mon....post me your favorites and tell us why you like them._

 

now there is one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 take the initiative. buy a bunch of tubes. start rolling and comparing and post your impressions. get people interested and excited about doing the same.


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## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have spent several hours today using the search feature to find a thread on tube rolling for the little dot mkiii but have had no luck finding one. There's one for every other tube amp in the world...but no mkiii._

 

now there is one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 take the initiative. buy a bunch of tubes. start rolling and comparing and post your impressions. get people interested and excited about doing the same.


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## RogerB

Now we're talkin' Bozz Keren!! I will be anxiously waiting to hear your opinions of the M8100 and EF95!!!


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

The M8100 is the British mil version of EF95 and is the same tube as CV4010, you will sometimes see the same tube co-branded as M8100/CV4010. Some tubes to look forward to are the more popular American 6AK5 variants. Some of the best are the US Army 6AK5 (US mil-spec tubes in general are usually very good), RCA Command (the Command line is RCA's premium consumer brand), GE Five Star (five star line is GE's premium brand), Sylvania Gold Brand (the Gold Brand are mil-spec tubes, there are a lot of rebaged GB's, however, so you want to make sure the tubes you buy have golden legs), Amperex made some 6AK5W (the W is for Improved, go figure) that were well received as well. There are quite a few other manufacturers of 6AK5 as it's a relatively popular tube back in the day.

 The Western Electric version of the 6AK5 is called the 403A. There is an improved version called the 403B that was manufactured by a few companies besides WE as well.

 The communist-block version of the 6AK5 is 6J1P, 6J1P-EV is the improved version.

 Some of the other 6AK5 equivalents that I know of that are not listed in the ebay ad are CV850, DP61, PM05. There might be others. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  EDIT: Here's a link to the *Yen Audio* Store's little dot upgrade tubes page, a lot of head-fiers have PM'd me for this info so here it is!


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bozz_Keren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you can replace the stock tubes with this:
 EF95, M8100, CV4010, 6J1 -- all with jumper off_

 

And the EF92/CV131/M8161 with jumpers on. Which is a plus since the EF92 are slightly cheaper than EF95 and there are lots of tube rolling options there to explore as well.


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## Bozz_Keren

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The M8100 is the British mil version of EF95 and is the same tube as CV4010, you will sometimes see the same tube co-branded as M8100/CV4010. IMO it is not much different sound quality wise than the regular Mullard EF95 although it's worth a try if you can find it under $20.

 Some tubes to look forward to are the more popular American 6AK5 variants. Some of the best are the US Army 6AK5 (US mil-spec tubes in general are usually very good), RCA Five Stars (the Five Star line is RCA's premium consumer brand), Sylvania Gold Brand (the Gold Brand are mil-spec tubes, there are a lot of rebaged GB's, however, so you want to make sure the tubes you buy have golden legs), Amperex made some 6AK5W (the W is for Improved, go figure) that were well received as well. There are quite a few other manufacturers of 6AK5 as it's a relatively popular tube back in the day.

 The Western Electric version of the 6AK5 is called the 403A.

 The communist-block version of the 6AK5 is 6J1P.

 Some of the other 6AK5 equivalents that I know of that are not listed in the ebay ad are CV850, DP61, PM05. There might be others. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

6AK5 is hard to find, unlike M8100 or EF95, btw
 MKIII/IV can use WE403A? as far as i know only MKIV SE can used that, cmiiw


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## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The M8100 is the British mil version of EF95 and is the same tube as CV4010, you will sometimes see the same tube co-branded as M8100/CV4010. IMO it is not much different sound quality wise than the regular Mullard EF95 although it's worth a try if you can find it under $20.

 Some tubes to look forward to are the more popular American 6AK5 variants. Some of the best are the US Army 6AK5 (US mil-spec tubes in general are usually very good), RCA Five Stars (the Five Star line is RCA's premium consumer brand), Sylvania Gold Brand (the Gold Brand are mil-spec tubes, there are a lot of rebaged GB's, however, so you want to make sure the tubes you buy have golden legs), Amperex made some 6AK5W (the W is for Improved, go figure) that were well received as well. There are quite a few other manufacturers of 6AK5 as it's a relatively popular tube back in the day.

 The Western Electric version of the 6AK5 is called the 403A.

 The communist-block version of the 6AK5 is 6J1P.

 Some of the other 6AK5 equivalents that I know of that are not listed in the ebay ad are CV850, DP61, PM05. There might be others. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

A good start for a list. One small error, you have the GE 5 Star and the RCA Command switched. The GE 5 Star is a nice tube in the MKIII, the RCA command is not outstanding but smooth and quiet, both were the Hand Picked Broadcast line. The Mullard M8100 is a very Smooth and rounded sounding tube which you would expect from a Mullard. They are especially nice as you break the amp in. There is also the Western Electric 415A, not bad at all.

 Another tube I personally prefer very much AFTER amp break-in, is the Tung-Sol 6AK5 Black Plate, a very smooth tube like the Mullard but with more detail at the frequency extremes. The best of all worlds. The plain-Jane RCA 5654 is not a bad tube at all and is under rated. Also, the later Sylvania JAN 5654W green label is a bit hard, but has some very good transient attack for Heavy rock or Metal. It is actually pretty difficult to make that amp sound bad. If it does, it's probably your cables or your source. JMO


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## RogerB

Negatron, thanks for you input here. It was your MKIII review and posts that were my deciding factor in purchasing the MKIII.

 When mine arrives and I have any problems or questions, I hope you don't mind me soliciting your help/advice.

 Everyone please continue posting your favorite tubes for your MKIII !!!!!!


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## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Negatron, thanks for you input here. It was your MKIII review and posts that were my deciding factor in purchasing the MKIII.

 When mine arrives and I have any problems or questions, I hope you don't mind me soliciting your help/advice.

 Everyone please continue posting your favorite tubes for your MKIII !!!!!!_

 

No problem asking anything. I am sure you will be very pleased with your purchase and in the rare event of a problem David provides responsive service second to none. A small bit of advice, don't get too trapped into tube rolling, just enjoy the amp and music. That's what it's for.


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## jirams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem asking anything. I am sure you will be very pleased with your purchase and in the rare event of a problem David provides responsive service second to none. *A small bit of advice, don't get too trapped into tube rolling, just enjoy the amp and music*. That's what it's for._

 

Excellent advice - this is a great sounding amp with the stock tubes.


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## RogerB

Thanks for the advice guys! I actually ordered an extra set of stock tubes when I placed my order with David. It will probably be several months before I even think about tube rolling.

 Yep...it's really all about enjoying the amp and music. Sometimes I think maybe we lose sight of that fact.

 Thanks again for the advice guys!


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jirams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
_ Excellent advice - this is a great sounding amp with the stock tubes._

 

  I think the stock GE 5654 are ok, but there certaintly are better tubes out there that will yield meaningful sonic improvements. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I do think it's a good idea to get familiar with your amp and stock tubes before venturing into the tube upgrade path, as it gives a better foundation for you to find the right sound that you prefer.
   
  The link to the *Yen Audio* store's little dot upgrade tubes page: http://stores.ebay.com/Yen-Audio/Little-Dot-Tubes-/


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## Danika k

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A good start for a list. One small error, you have the GE 5 Star and the RCA Command switched. The GE 5 Star is a nice tube in the MKIII, the RCA command is not outstanding but smooth and quiet, both were the Hand Picked Broadcast line. The Mullard M8100 is a very Smooth and rounded sounding tube which you would expect from a Mullard. They are especially nice as you break the amp in. There is also the Western Electric 415A, not bad at all.

 Another tube I personally prefer very much AFTER amp break-in, is the Tung-Sol 6AK5 Black Plate, a very smooth tube like the Mullard but with more detail at the frequency extremes. The best of all worlds. The plain-Jane RCA 5654 is not a bad tube at all and is under rated. Also, the later Sylvania JAN 5654W green label is a bit hard, but has some very good transient attack for Heavy rock or Metal. It is actually pretty difficult to make that amp sound bad. If it does, it's probably your cables or your source. JMO_

 

Thank you all for the suggestions, I can't wait to start tube rolling my new MkIV. Can someone please comment more on the Sylvania Gold Brand tubes? I saw some selling on ebay for a pretty low price and it's just so tempting...


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## undo

I just replaced the GE5654s with a couple of AEG EF95s (one hour ago). As yet, I've not experienced a detail enhancement. As a matter of fact, those AEGs were presumed that they would provide some vintage ambience rather than extraordinary details etc. The sound is warmer and lower frequencies are more intensive, maybe (maybe just a placebo effect). Need some days in order to be able to clarify the distinctions.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The plain-Jane RCA 5654 is not a bad tube at all and is under rated. It is actually pretty difficult to make that amp sound bad. If it does, it's probably your cables or your source. JMO_

 

I've been listening to some RCA 6AK5's myself and I totally agree with Negatron that they're quite under rated. The bass extension and mid-range clearity is quite surprising on the RCAs!


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

*oops*


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## Negatron

Same tube...


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## Danika k

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the stock GE 5654 are ok, but there certaintly are better tubes out there that will yield meaningful sonic improvements. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do think it's a good idea to get familiar with your amp and stock tubes before venturing into the tube upgrade path, as it gives a better foundation for you to find the right sound that you prefer._

 

Do GE 5654W sound better than the stock tubes?


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## headcheck

RogerB, Think the reason for the lack of rolling info thus far is that the stocky are damm good in their own right.


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## kickassdude

I 'm new with tubeamps so I've a couple of noob questions

 1. If you change to the EF95, than you change te small tubes at the front right?
 2. And how about the bigtubes at the back? Those are powertubes right? Does the sound improve when I change them?
 3. How do I change the stock tubes with other tubes?


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## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_RogerB, Think the reason for the lack of rolling info thus far is that the stocky are damm good in their own right._

 

I agree 100% headcheck!!! I haven't even considered rolling mine yet. Probably will be several months down the road.


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## ilgello

Ok I clicked it ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking fwd to hear this baby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nothing to compare with at the moment (wont consider the beresford amp), so I might get a ss or a DV 332 or 3322 next month to have some fun


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## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok I clicked it ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking fwd to hear this baby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nothing to compare with at the moment (wont consider the beresford amp), so I might get a ss or a DV 332 or 3322 next month to have some fun _

 

In the mean time make sure you burn it in real well (200hour min-my pick) As its needs this time to really show it quality. Then make the comparison


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## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the mean time make sure you burn it in real well (200hour min-my pick) As its needs this time to really show it quality. Then make the comparison_

 

Sure!

 I'm a total noob tho so I'll study a bit first!


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kickassdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I 'm new with tubeamps so I've a couple of noob questions

 1. If you change to the EF95, than you change te small tubes at the front right?
 2. And how about the bigtubes at the back? Those are powertubes right? Does the sound improve when I change them?
 3. How do I change the stock tubes with other tubes?_

 

1. The EF95 are the smaller tubes in front, they are also called driver tubes. 
 2. The big tubes are powertubes, they can be rolled too but it's a bit complicated as it's not entirely clear at this point as to which western tube is compatible with the Russian made 6H6Pi that comes stock. Give come check out this thread in a few weeks and it should be sorted out soon.
 3. Just go look for EF95 tubes on ebay and that should be a good start. Once you got the new tubes it's just a straighforward matter of pulling the stock tubes out and putting in the new ones.

 Welcome to head-fi. You know what they say.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree 100% headcheck!!! I haven't even considered rolling mine yet. Probably will be several months down the road._

 

Missing out...


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## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Missing out... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

OK Dept of Alchemy. I just ordered some RCA 6AK5 tubes from Mike Walker on ebay. Has anybody here ordered any tubes from him? Has great feedback.

 I read on another thread that both Negatron and you had nice things to say about these tubes. I'll post my impressions when I've had a chance to try them out!

 Roger


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

They're great. The thing with RCA 6AK5's is that there are at least three 'flavors' that I'm aware of. Depending on when it was manufactured, you could get a white plate, grey plate, or black plate RCA's. They're all pretty good, you can't go wrong with them though there are sonic differences. Let us know what you think when you get them. Keep in mind that they need some burn-in time if you got them NOS.

 Generally speaking, RCA is one of my favorite US manufacturer for tubes, they really took their craft seriously.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK Dept of Alchemy. I just ordered some RCA 6AK5 tubes from Mike Walker on ebay. Has anybody here ordered any tubes from him? Has great feedback._

 

Oh yeah, I get most of my LD tubes from this seller on ebay. I think penchum mentioned him too, anyway he responds quickly to questions and the tubes are awesome.


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## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They're great. The thing with RCA 6AK5's is that there are at least three 'flavors' that I'm aware of. Depending on when it was manufactured, you could get a white plate, grey plate, or black plate RCA's. They're all pretty good, you can't go wrong with them though there are sonic differences. Let us know what you think when you get them. Keep in mind that they need some burn-in time if you got them NOS.

 Generally speaking, RCA is one of my favorite US manufacturer for tubes, they really took their craft seriously._

 

Thanks for the comments D of A ! Makes me feel better about the purchase. They are NOS so I'll certainly burn them in before posting my impressions.

 Gotta say, my LD MKIII now has about 100 hours of burn in and it's just an incredible sounding amp to my ears!! Of course, this is my first tube amp AND my first "high quality" amp, so i really have nothing to compare it too. All I can say is my music sounds better than it ever has and I'm totally mesmerized by it! And...if I'm not mistaken...that's really what it's all about!!??

 Roger


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## dikyllis

a noob question, is it ok to try any tubes? trial and error? if it works, good, if it doesnt will it damage amp?


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dikyllis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_a noob question, is it ok to try any tubes? trial and error? if it works, good, if it doesnt will it damage amp?_

 

Welcome to head-fi, dikyllis. Unfortunately tube rolling doesn't work like that, and, yes, you could damage your amp with the wrong tubes. Refer to my post on page 1 for a list of tubes that can be used.

 Another trick is if you search for "little dot amp" on ebay you'll see a few ads for tubes, read the ads and you'll know for sure if they work on your particular amp.

 Also read the MkIV tube rolling thread, all of the driver tubes used on the MkIV can be used on the MkIII, so that's another good source of information. And MkIV users tend to be more prolific tube rollers as well.


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## penguindude

Would just like to comment on my experience of driving the HD600 out of the MKIII. With the stock tubes, the music sounded a bit shrill and cold. The extended treble of the HD600 quickly fatigued my ears. However, switching the driver tubes to some EF92 (with bridging), the experience is much better: warmer and much more tubey. It calmed the highs of the HD600 down and emphasized its expensive soundstage and presence. With the proper tubes, the HD600 presents itself as a much better overall phones than the bass-dominant HD650. After months of spending time with the LD MKIII, I'm still impressed by it!


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## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *penguindude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would just like to comment on my experience of driving the HD600 out of the MKIII. With the stock tubes, the music sounded a bit shrill and cold. The extended treble of the HD600 quickly fatigued my ears. However, switching the driver tubes to some EF92 (with bridging), the experience is much better: warmer and much more tubey. It calmed the highs of the HD600 down and emphasized its expensive soundstage and presence. With the proper tubes, the HD600 presents itself as a much better overall phones than the bass-dominant HD650. After months of spending time with the LD MKIII, I'm still impressed by it!_

 

Thanks for sharing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mine is on the way with some Mullard M8100, have you ever tried them ?


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## RogerB

OK gang,

 I just received some RCA 6AK5/EF95 tubes. I ordered them on the 10th from ebay and they arrived today! Great service!!! $15 for 5 tubes seems very nice! 

 I'm anxious to try them out but want to run this by you guys so I don't ruin my MKIII. It is my understanding the EF95 tube family is used WITHOUT the jumpers on. This amp comes stock without the jumpers on.

 Am I correct??? Am I ready to tube roll for the first time????!!!!

 I look forward to posting my impressions of these tubes as soon as I can get my question answered!

 Thanks guys!


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## penguindude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK gang,

 I just received some RCA 6AK5/EF95 tubes. I ordered them on the 10th from ebay and they arrived today! Great service!!! $15 for 5 tubes seems very nice! 

 I'm anxious to try them out but want to run this by you guys so I don't ruin my MKIII. It is my understanding the EF95 tube family is used WITHOUT the jumpers on. This amp comes stock without the jumpers on.

 Am I correct??? Am I ready to tube roll for the first time????!!!!

 I look forward to posting my impressions of these tubes as soon as I can get my question answered!

 Thanks guys!_

 


 EF95 tubes do NOT need the jumpers. EF92 tubes DO need the jumpers on. I believe the amp comes with the jumpers off.

 EDIT: So yes, ure right.


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## RogerB

Thanks penguindude! I'm ready now to begin the journey of tube rolling!


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## golgi

I'm dying of curiosity as I await my MKIII (which seems like forever but hasn't been very long in reality . So in the meantime I'm passing away the time enjoying my trusty ld2+ and reading up about the MKIII. I've got some spare Mullard CV131 tubes for my ld2+ sitting around. I see that this one of the type of tubes that can be used on the MKIII. Have any of you tried these out yet? If so then how do the compare to the stock tubes? Thanks


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *golgi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got some spare Mullard CV131 tubes for my ld2+ sitting around. I see that this one of the type of tubes that can be used on the MKIII. Have any of you tried these out yet? If so then how do the compare to the stock tubes? Thanks._

 

The CV131 is a variant in the EF92-family of tubes. Compared to the EF95 tubes that come stock with the MkIII, the EF92 draws a bit more current (200mA for EF92 versus 175mA for EF95) and therefore has more gain and runs hotter (the heat shouldn't be a concern on the MkIII, though). In theory, the EF92 should have a more linear top-end response owning to its higher gain and my personal experience has been that, when compared to each other, the best EF92 I've tried has a sweeter treble while the best EF95 I've tried has more authoritative bass. That said, there are more factors besides tube families that can affect how tubes sound, such as manufacturer, variants within the same family, and vintage, just to name a few factors. The sound of the amp does vary quite a bit with different selection of tubes (which is a feature of tube amps, I believe), and it's up to the individual audiophile to try out different types of tubes to find the best combination for yourself.

 Keep in mind especially that since the pre-amp out on the MkIII is directly powered by the driver tubes only, your selection of driver tubes will affect the quality of your pre-amp output in a significant way.


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## Bozz_Keren

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK gang,

 I just received some RCA 6AK5/EF95 tubes. I ordered them on the 10th from ebay and they arrived today! Great service!!! $15 for 5 tubes seems very nice! 

 I'm anxious to try them out but want to run this by you guys so I don't ruin my MKIII. It is my understanding the EF95 tube family is used WITHOUT the jumpers on. This amp comes stock without the jumpers on.

 Am I correct??? Am I ready to tube roll for the first time????!!!!

 I look forward to posting my impressions of these tubes as soon as I can get my question answered!

 Thanks guys!_

 

how's the tube rolling, any impressions?


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## ilgello

Can't stop drooling It's here on my desk!!!!

 3 more hours of wait to get home can't wait


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## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bozz_Keren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how's the tube rolling, any impressions? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

OK guys, I've been very busy lately but I have about 20 hours on the 6AK5/EF95 tubes. My early impressions are that they have a more prominent lower end than the stock tubes. However, the soundstage seems to have narrowed ever so slightly. These tubes are a little more upfront and aggressive than the stock tubes. I will continue burning them in until I get about 50 hours on them. So far I think I prefer the stock tubes because they seem smoother to my ears. But...it's early in the burn in process...

 More later.....


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## RogerB

Oh, btw, they are manufactured by RCA.


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## coredump

Has anyone tried the Ediswan EF92? These were sent as a replacement to my stock tubes which were damaged in shipping. I wont have anything to compare them with.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the Ediswan EF92? These were sent as a replacement to my stock tubes which were damaged in shipping. I wont have anything to compare them with._

 

Ediswan EF92's are alright, personally I prefer Mullard's EF92 and much more so the M8161 which is the military version of EF92.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK guys, I've been very busy lately but I have about 20 hours on the 6AK5/EF95 tubes. My early impressions are that they have a more prominent lower end than the stock tubes. However, the soundstage seems to have narrowed ever so slightly. These tubes are a little more upfront and aggressive than the stock tubes. I will continue burning them in until I get about 50 hours on them. So far I think I prefer the stock tubes because they seem smoother to my ears. But...it's early in the burn in process...

 More later....._

 

The narrower soundstage could be due to mismatched tubes, do you know if your tubes are matched?


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## coredump

So I got home tonight and put the EF92s in the amp. I put the jumper on because they are required. I power it up and nothing works. I put the old tubes back in and pull the jumpers and I get sound. I go back and forth a few times with the same results. I finally take a closer look at the tubes and they aren't EF92. They are 5654s. I realized I should have inspected them sooner but who puts a 5654 in a box marked EF92? I hope having the jumpers in didn't hurt anything.


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## RogerB

I notice ebay tube seller yen has an Amperex 5654 matched pair of tubes up. These are suppose to be great tubes. Opening bid is $32 although there are no bids yet.

 Update: The RCA 6AK5/EF95 tubes I put in last week are really sounding excellent!!!! Since my last post I have about 50 hrs on them and the harshness has turned into a very sweet sound! The soundstage has widened and the bass is more pronounced than on the stock tubes. These are very nice tubes I recommend for anybody interested in tube rolling their MKIII.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I notice ebay tube seller yen has an Amperex 5654 matched pair of tubes up. These are suppose to be great tubes. Opening bid is $32 although there are no bids yet.

 Update: The RCA 6AK5/EF95 tubes I put in last week are really sounding excellent!!!! Since my last post I have about 50 hrs on them and the harshness has turned into a very sweet sound! The soundstage has widened and the bass is more pronounced than on the stock tubes. These are very nice tubes I recommend for anybody interested in tube rolling their MKIII._

 

Found a matched pair of RCA 6AK5 here. Yen's a great seller too, highly recommended. That Amperex looks pretty sweet, I would jump on it if I didn't already have a pair. 

 A tip for those interested, I'm pretty sure the National 403B's he's listed are actually rebranded Tung-Sol black-plates. National Electronics bought in their tubes from different manufacturers and just put their own brand on them as they required, I have a pair just like that and it's one of my favorite 403B's.


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## headcheck

A tip for those interested, I'm pretty sure the National 403B's he's listed are actually rebranded Tung-Sol black-plates. National Electronics bought in their tubes from different manufacturers and just put their own brand on them as they required, I have a pair just like that and it's one of my favorite 403B's.[/QUOTE]

 So how sure %? I cant seem to track any down at the moment but if these are really them then certainly keen!

 The RCA's are a class act indeed. Got them in right know.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how sure %? I cant seem to track any down at the moment but if these are really them then certainly keen!

 The RCA's are a class act indeed. Got them in right know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm about 90% sure that those National branded tubes are Tung-Sol black plates from what I can see of the construction and what I know about the history.


----------



## RogerB

I've got a matched pair of GE 5 stars coming. Anybody familiar with these tubes?


----------



## fraseyboy

Does the MKIII take the same types of tubes as the MKII?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got a matched pair of GE 5 stars coming. Anybody familiar with these tubes?_

 

They're wonderful tubes, takes a while a burn in but they're basically the best tubes that GE made (and then hand selected to qualify as 5 Star), and GE made a lot of tubes. Matched pair is also important and a good thing to have. Congrats on the find. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fraseyboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the MKIII take the same types of tubes as the MKII?_

 

Yes.


----------



## Tech2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I notice ebay tube seller yen has an Amperex 5654 matched pair of tubes up. These are suppose to be great tubes. Opening bid is $32 although there are no bids yet.

 Update: The RCA 6AK5/EF95 tubes I put in last week are really sounding excellent!!!! Since my last post I have about 50 hrs on them and the harshness has turned into a very sweet sound! The soundstage has widened and the bass is more pronounced than on the stock tubes. These are very nice tubes I recommend for anybody interested in tube rolling their MKIII._

 

$32 seems high to me, but then I wouldn't pay $25 either. I just picked up a pair of Amperex Bugle Boy 6CQ6 (EF92) tubes on ebay for $12. Got them yesterday. They aren't matched but they are identical NOS tubes in original boxes, with the BB logo completely intact, from a great (honest) seller. He's got a pair of Mullards for the same price, same condition. I may have to buy those also.


----------



## Danika k

Hi all, has anyone tried the EF91 tubes on the MkIII? I found a matched pair of Telefunken ones and wonder what difference in sound would the EF91's made compared to the stock ones.

 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Danika k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all, has anyone tried the EF91 tubes on the MkIII? I found a matched pair of Telefunken ones and wonder what difference in sound would the EF91's made compared to the stock ones.

 Thanks in advance!_

 

Hi Danika, are the ones from yen1233 you're talking about? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have actually had quite a bit of experience rolling the EF91 family. The thing that differentiates the EF91 family of tubes from the stock EF95 family is that the former draws a lot more current (300mA on EF91 compared to 175mA on EF95) and from the higher current comes the ability to handle higher gain and in fact the EF91 stays linear across a wider bandwith than the EF95.

 In English, the EF91 sounds more linear and more 'airy' and extended in the top end. Telefunken of course is one of the best manufacturers in the business and is well known for the neutrality of its tubes. If you want to hear things in your favorite record that you haven't heard before, IMO the EF91 is the way to go.


----------



## RogerB

I have been watching the bidding on some of ebay seller yen1233 tube auctions. Seems the prices can get pretty high for his tubes, but, it seems he sells alot of high quality tubes.

 So, you guys that have knowledge and experience buying tubes, Penchum, DoA, Negatron and others, are these tubes worth that price??

 I like the fact that they are matched pairs and he tells you they are compatible for the MKIII. Plus, I won a matched pair of GE 5 Stars and he was great to deal with!!!!!

 It just seems like one could easily spend a small fortune on tubes.

 I would appreciate any comments on this!

 Gotta go chase my wallet around the house again..........................


----------



## Tech2

Well, as I indicated in a previous post I bought a pair of Mullard and a pair of Amperex Bugle Boy EF92 for $12 per pair on ebay. They aren't matched, but they are NOS tubes in the original boxes.

 It's funny, I don't even have the amp yet and I've purchased 5 pairs of tubes on ebay:

 Two Amperex Bugle Boy EF92
 Two Mullard EF92
 Two RCA EF95

 Such is life with a tube amp and I'm just getting started. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The other four tubes were supposed to be NOS pairs of Raytheon and Tungsol EF95. The ebay auction said 'various' so I emailed the guy before I bought them and asked him which brands he had available. He told me he had PAIRS of Tungsol, RCA, Raytheon, and Westinghouse, so I committed to a 'Buy It Now' for four tubes and attached a message to my PayPal payment that I wanted a pair of Raytheon and Tungsol. I got the tubes and saw that he sent me 1 Raytheon, 1 Tungsol, and 2 completely different Westinghouse tubes. He hasn't responded to my emails, so I have opened a PayPal dispute.

 Whatever you guys do, do not buy from a seller named Moonshine Tubes in Minnesota.


----------



## Skylab

So, out of curiosity, has it been determined if there are any tube-rolling options for the power tube in the MkIII?


----------



## Tech2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, out of curiosity, has it been determined if there are any tube-rolling options for the power tube in the MkIII?_

 

Not that I am aware of, and that is a definite negative in my mind.

 Tube rolling aside, it would be reassuring to know that there were commonly available tubes in the US that could be substituted for the stock Russian (?) tubes. I don't especially like the idea of having to order new power tubes from Russia, the Ukraine, or directly from Little Dot.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, out of curiosity, has it been determined if there are any tube-rolling options for the power tube in the MkIII?_

 

This tread at the LD forum has your answer:

Viewing a thread - 6N6P-I equivalents in LD mkIII?

 In a nutshell, the pin configuration of 6N6P-I's (the power tubes) are unique. If you want to try assorted E182CC tubes and their bretheren, you'd need to break out a soldering iron and re-wire the pin sockets to the board.

 There's a diagram provided by Sword, visable once you log on.

 I'll stick with rolling just the driver tubes myself.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 E


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tech2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not that I am aware of, and that is a definite negative in my mind.

 Tube rolling aside, it would be reassuring to know that there were commonly available tubes in the US that could be substituted for the stock Russian (?) tubes. I don't especially like the idea of having to order new power tubes from Russia, the Ukraine, or directly from Little Dot._

 

FWIW, I ordered and received 5pr of Russian output tubes for my MKIII from a Ukraine eBayer. $20 + 12 shipping = $32 for more than a lifetime's supply. No problems in the transaction.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tech2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He told me he had PAIRS of Tungsol, RCA, Raytheon, and Westinghouse, so I committed to a 'Buy It Now' for four tubes and attached a message to my PayPal payment that I wanted a pair of Raytheon and Tungsol. I got the tubes and saw that he sent me 1 Raytheon, 1 Tungsol, and 2 completely different Westinghouse tubes. He hasn't responded to my emails, so I have opened a PayPal dispute.

 Whatever you guys do, do not buy from a seller named Moonshine Tubes in Minnesota._

 

That's why I only buy tubes from reputable dealers these days. I guess we all had to go through the buy-cheap-from-shady-dealers phase, but in the end I learned my lesson... tubes, like everything else, you get what you pay for. Sure it's nice to get things on the cheap, but I'd rather spend a little extra for a pair of tubes that I KNOW will be top quality and matching and packaged well. Considering how important tubes are for the performance of a tube amp, I'd say vote with your money and go with reputable dealers and tubes that won't hold your amp back.


----------



## Tech2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's why I only buy tubes from reputable dealers these days. I guess we all had to go through the buy-cheap-from-shady-dealers phase, but in the end I learned my lesson... tubes, like everything else, you get what you pay for. Sure it's nice to get things on the cheap, but I'd rather spend a little extra for a pair of tubes that I KNOW will be top quality and matching and packaged well. Considering how important tubes are for the performance of a tube amp, I'd say vote with your money and go with reputable dealers and tubes that won't hold your amp back._

 

I hear you.

 I have been forutnate until this transaction, though. I have purchased a lot of tubes on ebay for my Woo6 and have always gotten exactly what I expected. This is the first time I've experienced a bad deal. All of the other tubes I puchased for the LDMKIII have also been perfect, at least cosmetically. I'll know more about the sonic part when I actually get my amp and try them.

 ethebull,

 Can you PM me with a link to the seller you dealt with on the power tubes? I'd like to have a stash also.

 Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tech2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not that I am aware of, and that is a definite negative in my mind.

 Tube rolling aside, it would be reassuring to know that there were commonly available tubes in the US that could be substituted for the stock Russian (?) tubes. I don't especially like the idea of having to order new power tubes from Russia, the Ukraine, or directly from Little Dot._

 

Agreed. I prefer to only buy tube amps that allow the use of fairly common NOS US tube types. For one thing, it's much more fun for me! But I agree it also is less worrisome.


----------



## balandaman

Hi!

 I`m a noob and thinking to get a Little Dot MK III for my K701`s. Whan I get it I will be looking for some warmer, more musical tubes to compensate for the coldness and distance of my AKG`s. Which of Yen`s tubes on Ebay (seems that he`s the most trustworthy source) do you think would best match that description?
 These 5 are in my shortlist:

 Mullard M8161
 RCA NOS 5654
 Mullard 403B
 Mullard 5654
 GE Five Star 6AK5



 Thanks!


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed. I prefer to only buy tube amps that allow the use of fairly common NOS US tube types. For one thing, it's much more fun for me! But I agree it also is less worrisome._

 

FWIW, there IS a subtle difference between the 6H6P and the 6H6Pi. (At $2 each for 10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) As to ordering from the Russian Federation: Personally arranging an oxcart and a sailing boat for transportation my prove faster. It has been my personal experience in ordering old Sov. surplus that Latvia, an EU member, is very efficient, friendly and business like, plus.. QUICK. My second choice if no option is from Georgia. If I must order from Russia I try and forget asap. Then when it finally shows up, it is a pleasant surprise.


----------



## RogerB

Anybody have any information or experience with a Telefunken 6AM6 S EF91 tube???


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FWIW, there IS a subtle difference between the 6H6P and the 6H6Pi. (At $2 each for 10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) As to ordering from the Russian Federation: Personally arranging an oxcart and a sailing boat for transportation my prove faster. It has been my personal experience in ordering old Sov. surplus that Latvia, an EU member, is very efficient, friendly and business like, plus.. QUICK. My second choice if no option is from Georgia. If I must order from Russia I try and forget asap. Then when it finally shows up, it is a pleasant surprise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Agreed. I don't usually run into problems with reputable Russian tube dealers, albeit the tubes might take a month or two to come. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh and I always get tricked into thinking that Georgia is a state in the US.


----------



## Skylab

I have had decent luck ordering from Romania.


----------



## ethebull

Stock GE's vs. Mullard M8100 vs. Amperex 5654

 I use my amp purely for CD and LP listening. The system I own and used for this tube comparison is as follows: Marantz DR700 CD Player/recorder > Transparent Digital Link Plus Coax > Theta DS Pro Basic II D to A converter > Monster Cable M1000i interconnects > Melos MA-333 Preamp > Transparent Music Link interconnects > Little Dot MKIII HP amp > AKG K240 Sextett later production cans circa 1981

 Some fave cuts from Cds that I love:

 T Bone Burnett “River of Love” from self titled Dot release 1986
 Great recording direct to two track. All acoustic. Exceptionally natural sound on a good system

 Lou Reed “Hang on to Your Emotions” from Set the Twilight Reeling 1996
 Lou used some awesome Soldano Custom tube guitar amps for this recording. Love Fernando Saunder’s fretless bass lines here.

 Beck “Loser” from Mellow Gold 1994
 Subterranean bass, interesting studio effects, a head banging demo piece.

 Lucinda Williams “Fruits of My Labor” from World Without Tears 2003
 The drummer uses brush sticks and the textures are quite a challenge to get just right. Rich bass.

 I installed the original tubes and let the amp warm up for 20min., played the four songs, switched to the Mullards and waited 10 minutes, repeat, Amperex, repeat, then repeated the whole business a second time.

 There are differences in the three tubes, but for every characteristic I’ll describe here, you could preface each adjective with the words “subtly” or “very subtly”. I wrote down notes while listening and what follows is a pretty simple laundry list.

 The stock tubes. I thought the amp sounded darn good right out of the box. It did improve after break-in. Now, revisiting the stock tubes, I find I’d be happy to live with them indefinitely. 

 Great clarity, good balance, clean, acoustic guitar has sparkle, spacious air in the highs, very clean sound. You could mistake this amp as being solid state. Bass is a bit leaner than the others in weight and depth. Sound stage is flatter, vocals and instruments are more forward.

 Mullards. Fuller bass, Beck intro goes deeper, Vocals less in face, full sounding in general. Slightly softened attack on tom/snare, fuzzier detail or slight veiling, textures not quite as clear. 

 Amperex. Vocal similar in depth to Mullard but cleaner, bass line very clear, Beck intro still deep, Beck’s voice less “canned” sounding, Highs have air but not forward sounding. Maybe a touch soft in a euphonic way. Great texture to brush drum sounds. Good warmth. 

 So for me the winner here is the Amperex. Between the stock GE’s and the Mullards, I’d call it a toss up. You give up some clarity for more bass with the Mullards. The Amperex seem to combine the other two’s strengths without their short comings. 

 Now I’d like to hear what others say about non-EF95 series options.

 Enjoy the tunes,

 E


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

^ nice review, mirrors most of my experience with those tubes. One question, though, do your M8100's have the Mullard shield printed on them? In my experience the M8100 sound quite a bit better than stock tubes.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ nice review, mirrors most of my experience with those tubes. One question, though, do your M8100's have the Mullard shield printed on them? In my experience the M8100 sound quite a bit better than stock tubes._

 

No shield, black plates, so perhaps my Mullards aren't top drawer, they just seemed to offer more of a trade-off without raising the bar. JMO/E YMMV


----------



## RogerB

Great review of the tubes ethebull!!! I'm really thrilled since I have a matched pair of Amperex 5654's coming!!! I paid a pretty penny for them but it sounds like they will be worth it!!

 Thanks again for the review!


----------



## RogerB

I received a matched pair of GE 5 Stars and they sound very nice!!! Don't have but a couple of hours of burn in on them but they are sounding very sweet!


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great review of the tubes ethebull!!! I'm really thrilled since I have a matched pair of Amperex 5654's coming!!! I paid a pretty penny for them but it sounds like they will be worth it!!

 Thanks again for the review!_

 

Hey, No problem. 

 In general, I'm inclined to throw a new component into the mix and just live with it for quite a while. But I've never owned a separate headphone amp and thought the learning process should include some tube swapping. Then it's only fair to share with you all my experiences and preferences. Aural memory they say is short lived, but I've been doing component swaps in my system for close to 30 years and I feel like I don't over embellish my rankings of perceived quality. I was a store manager at a mid to high end audio store for nearly ten years, and I always preferred to under sell and over deliver. 

 In the world of sound, I'm no noob. Hundreds of live shows attended, hundreds of components and systems evaluated. But honestly I am a relative noob in headphone-fi. 

 Hope your new Amperex exceed your expectations.

 E

 I won't be buying any new tubes, so no more reviews forth coming (unless somebody wants to play trade-z's just for fun - I'll lend you mine if you'll lend me yours...)


----------



## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hope your new Amperex exceed your expectations.

 E

 I won't be buying any new tubes, so no more reviews forth coming (unless somebody wants to play trade-z's just for fun - I'll lend you mine if you'll lend me yours...)_

 

Since I bought my MKIII I have been trying to pick up some high quality tubes from each family of tubes. I have some good ones from the EF95 family, the GE 5 Stars, Mullard 403B, National 403B (which DoA believes to be Tung Sol's), and the Amperex 5654's.

 I plan to pick up some premium tubes from the EF91 and EF92 families and then be done with it. There's only so many tubes one can actually listen to and enjoy and at some point you have to put the wallet away! Afterall, I have kids going to college in a few short years! LOL!


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since I bought my MKIII I have been trying to pick up some high quality tubes from each family of tubes. I have some good ones from the EF95 family, the GE 5 Stars, Mullard 403B, National 403B (which DoA believes to be Tung Sol's), and the Amperex 5654's.

 I plan to pick up some premium tubes from the EF91 and EF92 families and then be done with it. There's only so many tubes one can actually listen to and enjoy and at some point you have to put the wallet away! Afterall, I have kids going to college in a few short years! LOL!_

 


 Am I correct in thinking that the EF95 family of tubes does not require any jumper change in the LDIII? Time to start rolling! I hear ya about kids/college - coming up for me soon too!


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I correct in thinking that the EF95 family of tubes does not require any jumper change in the LDIII?_

 

Yep


----------



## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I correct in thinking that the EF95 family of tubes does not require any jumper change in the LDIII? Time to start rolling! I hear ya about kids/college - coming up for me soon too!_

 

You are correct jpstereo. No jumper required for EF95's. The jumper is required for the EF 91 and 92 family.


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are correct jpstereo. No jumper required for EF95's. The jumper is required for the EF 91 and 92 family._

 

Thanks all! Off to do some EF95 shopping but I have to say that the stock tubes in the MKIII are impressive thus far. I could live with them but then again this is Head-fi!!!


----------



## headcheck

For those out there that are a bit uncomfortable about buy tubes from abroad (and not from Ebay) Have a look at these beauties!! I got them through Wen Audio from Taiwan. Fast postage and great communication/service (similar to Dave at LD). So take a punt, you never know! 

Wen Audio (Vacuum tubes,parts..etc)
 Anybody got an idea what all the screen print means? BIG SHIELD version too


----------



## headcheck

Mr British meet Mr Russian . PLAY NICE NOW!!!


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

How many people have tried the EF91 family of tubes on their MkIV's?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks all! Off to do some EF95 shopping but I have to say that the stock tubes in the MKIII are impressive thus far. I could live with them but then again this is Head-fi!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just wait till you hear the upgraded ones...


----------



## Tech2

I've been looking for some additional power tubes, and cannot seem to find any 6H6P-I tubes. I was at work when the last batch sold on ebay.

 A search on Google doesn't turn up much. In fact, I emailed a Russian seller who had some and he quoted me a price of $200 for 6 tubes. He went on to say that they have a $200 minimum.

 Right.

 Anyway, can somebody please list all of the known tubes that are a direct replacement for the 6N6P-I? I've seen the 6H6P discussed here, but I noticed that that specs were a bit different. Are these OK, and are there any others that anyone has confirmed work in the MKIII?

 Also, if anybody has a spare pair or two (6N6P-I) I would be more than happy to buy them.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tech2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been looking for some additional power tubes, and cannot seem to find any 6H6P-I tubes. I was at work when the last batch sold on ebay.

 A search on Google doesn't turn up much. In fact, I emailed a Russian seller who had some and he quoted me a price of $200 for 6 tubes. He went on to say that they have a $200 minimum.

 Right.

 Anyway, can somebody please list all of the known tubes that are a direct replacement for the 6N6P-I? I've seen the 6H6P discussed here, but I noticed that that specs were a bit different. Are these OK, and are there any others that anyone has confirmed work in the MKIII?

 Also, if anybody has a spare pair or two (6N6P-I) I would be more than happy to buy them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I bought these in December:

RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - eBay (item 260193828112 end time Dec-20-07 14:40:59 PST)

 They are correct. The eBay seller illustrates the pin outs. He has had several sets of 10 for sale and likely will again. Try emailing him. 

 The Russian tubes are marked 6H6n or 6H6n-N with the capital N reversed.


----------



## Tech2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought these in December:

RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - eBay (item 260193828112 end time Dec-20-07 14:40:59 PST)

 They are correct. The eBay seller illustrates the pin outs. He has had several sets of 10 for sale and likely will again. Try emailing him. 

 The Russian tubes are marked 6H6n or 6H6n-N with the capital N reversed._

 

I know, that's the auction you linked me to earlier, thank you. Unfortunately, I was at wok when it ended. I did email him to see if he has any more, but I am still curious there are any other tubes that folks have verified to work in the amp.

 In the meantime, I'll continue watching ebay to see if he lists any more. I certainly don't want to pay Little Dot $20 per pair + shipping for the same tubes.


----------



## golgi

I'm getting to the point where reading threads like this has gotten me really curious and I'm ready to order a set of tubes to roll in. I've read several posts from people who have gotten many different tubes to try out and I'm wondering which you preferred out of all of them. I'm looking to buy a set of tubes off ebay to try out but I really don't want to buy 3 or 4 different pairs to find the best out of them. I'd rather just hear about one type and brand of tube that most of you have preferred over others. For instance, right now I'm leaning more towards the Amperex 5654 tubes since ethebull compared them to some others and preferred these."

 So, to sum up, what is the best set of tubes you've tried out so this lazy tube roller can have an easy upgrade


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How many people have tried the EF91 family of tubes on their MkIV's?_

 

I've got a set coming. CV138 Mullard 6AM6's EF91. I'm hoping for delivery next week.


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *golgi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm getting to the point where reading threads like this has gotten me really curious and I'm ready to order a set of tubes to roll in. I've read several posts from people who have gotten many different tubes to try out and I'm wondering which you preferred out of all of them. I'm looking to buy a set of tubes off ebay to try out but I really don't want to buy 3 or 4 different pairs to find the best out of them. I'd rather just hear about one type and brand of tube that most of you have preferred over others. For instance, right now I'm leaning more towards the Amperex 5654 tubes since ethebull compared them to some others and preferred these."

 So, to sum up, what is the best set of tubes you've tried out so this lazy tube roller can have an easy upgrade _

 

As the Mullard M8100 are burning in, it is definately smoother then stock&RCA. Left them for dead straight up. The mids a so full and warm, and can get to the upper reach with ease-every style of music I throw at it and its just well controlled even at ear bleeding vol. The RCA 6AK5 are very efficient on power (had to back off) and has a more airy sound along with a big headroom: great for live recordings. The "genuine" NOS Tung-sol 5654 Black Plate are on their way (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




hint:there's still another pair left at vacuumtube.net)(thanks to Negatron for the praise of these tubes) along with a pair of WE403B too. So happy days!!! think that should be right for the EF95 family. Start on the EF92 next.

 As the RCA are the only pair fully broken in. I go with that for now.


----------



## golgi

I checked and didn't see the Tung-sol 5654 Black Plate tubes. Must have sold already


----------



## Tech2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *golgi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I checked and didn't see the Tung-sol 5654 Black Plate tubes. Must have sold already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Call them.

 They can tell you what they have in stock. I think their price lists at the web site only show the tube number and price, not the brands or quantity in stock.


----------



## golgi

Ended up finding some Amperex EF92's for a reasonable price. I'll post my comparison to the stock tubes here after I receive them and they've had some time to burn in.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *golgi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ended up finding some Amperex EF92's for a reasonable price. I'll post my comparison to the stock tubes here after I receive them and they've had some time to burn in._

 

Great choice! Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## Tech2

Anyone need 54 NOS 6CQ6 (EF92) tubes?

 Get em here, for only $28 shipped anywhere in the US:

Lot of 54 United electron 6CQ6 Tubes NOS - eBay (item 160205133677 end time Feb-07-08 19:13:12 PST)

 That works out to 52-cents each.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tech2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone need 54 NOS 6CQ6 (EF92) tubes?

 Get em here, for only $28 shipped anywhere in the US:

Lot of 54 United electron 6CQ6 Tubes NOS - eBay (item 160205133677 end time Feb-07-08 19:13:12 PST)

 That works out to 52-cents each. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey, there's one Mullard in there... I've seen two Mullards sell for $28...


----------



## Tech2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, there's one Mullard in there... I've seen two Mullards sell for $28..._

 

Or one old box that says 'Mullard' but contains something else.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tech2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone need 54 NOS 6CQ6 (EF92) tubes?

 Get em here, for only $28 shipped anywhere in the US:

Lot of 54 United electron 6CQ6 Tubes NOS - eBay (item 160205133677 end time Feb-07-08 19:13:12 PST)

 That works out to 52-cents each. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If packaging and mailing aren't a problem for you (they are for me), you should buy the lot and sell to HeadFi'ers for a buck per tube plus shipping. Everybody wins!


----------



## Tech2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If packaging and mailing aren't a problem for you (they are for me), you should buy the lot and sell to HeadFi'ers for a buck per tube plus shipping. Everybody wins! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Too late, they're gone.

 I didn't figure they would last long at that price. It's almost robbery.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tech2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Too late, they're gone.

 I didn't figure they would last long at that price. It's almost robbery. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Hopefully it is one of US, and they'll sell them cheap.


----------



## Tech2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hopefully it is one of US, and they'll sell them cheap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Works for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bought by a brand new ebayer. Only other purchase was for some 6AK5's. You know what he's feeding.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tech2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Works for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bought by a brand new ebayer. Only other purchase was for some 6AK5's. You know what he's feeding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Time for them to fess up, let the cat out of the bag, show yourself, hungry tube eaters are waiting!!!!


----------



## RogerB

I received a matched pair of Amperex 5654 EF 95 tubes last week and have about 30 or so hours of burn in on them.

 These are my favorite tubes so far in my rolling journey! IMO, when you get to high quality tubes it all boils down to personal preference as the differences are minimal. The GE 5 Stars are fantastic but these seem to me to be slightly more detailed over the entire frequency range. 

 Both are fantastic tubes! 

 I have some Mullard 403B's and some National 403B's which I haven't listened to yet. 

 Seems to me it's very difficult to say which is better because they all bring something different to the table!

 And I guess that's the beauty of tube rolling!


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received a matched pair of Amperex 5654 EF 95 tubes last week and have about 30 or so hours of burn in on them.

 These are my favorite tubes so far in my rolling journey! IMO, when you get to high quality tubes it all boils down to personal preference as the differences are minimal. The GE 5 Stars are fantastic but these seem to me to be slightly more detailed over the entire frequency range. 

 Both are fantastic tubes! 

 I have some Mullard 403B's and some National 403B's which I haven't listened to yet. 

 Seems to me it's very difficult to say which is better because they all bring something different to the table!

 And I guess that's the beauty of tube rolling!_

 

Yeah, the Amperex are a tasty treat! I'll be interested in some feedback outside the EF95 family where differences might be less subtle.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received a matched pair of Amperex 5654 EF 95 tubes last week and have about 30 or so hours of burn in on them.

 These are my favorite tubes so far in my rolling journey! IMO, when you get to high quality tubes it all boils down to personal preference as the differences are minimal. The GE 5 Stars are fantastic but these seem to me to be slightly more detailed over the entire frequency range. 

 Both are fantastic tubes! 

 I have some Mullard 403B's and some National 403B's which I haven't listened to yet. 

 Seems to me it's very difficult to say which is better because they all bring something different to the table!

 And I guess that's the beauty of tube rolling!_

 

Lucky. Nice tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Remember to burn them in before passing judgement on them especially if you got them NOS, unlike cables and even amps, tubes were DESIGNED so that they require some burn in to create a harder vacuum inside the tube.


----------



## RogerB

DofA, all the tubes i've mentioned are NOS. How much burn in do you recommend for these tubes before they reach their potential??


----------



## headcheck

Just to make sure. Can the MK3 run 5687 power tubes? Info so far indicates that 6H6NPI=E182CC=5687 From various Ebay sellers. Hope its true as there a some excellent tubes at the moment.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to make sure. Can the MK3 run 5687 power tubes? Info so far indicates that 6H6NPI=E182CC=5687 From various Ebay sellers. Hope its true as there a some excellent tubes at the moment._

 

Sorry, no.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Russian sellers started this problem. They were trying to say "sounds like E182CC" and it is all blown out of truth now. If I take a 6H6N and put it in my MKIVse (which uses 5687, E182CC, others) it will not work. They are not pin compatible. If I take one of my 5687's and put them in the MKII, it will not work. Same pin compatibility issue. MKII + MKIII must stay 6H6N compatible.

 I ran into this whole mess while researching for the MKII review. I coordinated with DavidZ and Sword, they both told me about the problem.


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, no.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Russian sellers started this problem. They were trying to say "sounds like E182CC" and it is all blown out of truth now. If I take a 6H6N and put it in my MKIVse (which uses 5687, E182CC, others) it will not work. They are not pin compatible. If I take one of my 5687's and put them in the MKII, it will not work. Same pin compatibility issue. MKII + MKIII must stay 6H6N compatible.

 I ran into this whole mess while researching for the MKII review. I coordinated with DavidZ and Sword, they both told me about the problem.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great! I
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 can keep that trigger happy finger of mine away for the buy now button. Thanks for saving me some money!!


----------



## headcheck

What. Now I'm really scratching my head. Even so call trusty yen1233 has this on one of his previous tube. "Joint Army-Navy (JAN) 5687 vacuum tubes compatible as upgrade tubes for the 6H6Pi and 6N6 on Little Dot's MkII / MkIII / MkIV and some MkIVse headphone amplifiers*." That finger is starting to get itchy again. 

JAN Mil-Spec 5687 Power Tube Little Dot Mk Amp 6H6P 6N6 - eBay (item 280197543163 end time Feb-03-08 18:02:36 PST)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What. Now I'm really scratching my head. Even so call trusty yen1233 has this on one of his previous tube. "Joint Army-Navy (JAN) 5687 vacuum tubes compatible as upgrade tubes for the 6H6Pi and 6N6 on Little Dot's MkII / MkIII / MkIV and some MkIVse headphone amplifiers*." That finger is starting to get itchy again. 

JAN Mil-Spec 5687 Power Tube Little Dot Mk Amp 6H6P 6N6 - eBay (item 280197543163 end time Feb-03-08 18:02:36 PST)_

 

I sent him a note on it Saturday. I expect to hear back from him soon.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He has good tubes, but his info lately is wonky.


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sent him a note on it Saturday. I expect to hear back from him soon.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He has good tubes, but his info lately is wonky. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You really are like that rational little angel perched on my right shoulder
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Too bad for the person who won that bid thinking its a great little upgrade
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great that he took your advice and pulled the listing off


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You really are like that rational little angel perched on my right shoulder
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Too bad for the person who won that bid thinking its a great little upgrade
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It just bugs me that some poor smuck is going to get his tubes, slap them in and "ow, my amp must have blown" or something, and it will not cross his mind that the tubes are not compatible because the eBay add said so! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To double verify, which I do often, I took out a prize matched pair of Tung-Sol 5687s and put them in my MKII. NOTHING WORKS! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Later...


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

double post.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Yeah, just to clarify. If your Little Dot amp isn't the MkIVse especially wired for the 5687/E182CC family of power tubes (ie. if you have an MkII or MkIII or regular MkIV) then the only power tubes you can use are the 6H6N Russian ones.


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, just to clarify. If your Little Dot amp isn't the MkIVse especially wired for the 5687/E182CC family of power tubes (ie. if you have an MkII or MkIII or regular MkIV) then the only power tubes you can use are the 6H6N Russian ones._

 

Now the million dollar question. Can the mod on the MkIVse be done DIY on the Mk3?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now the million dollar question. Can the mod on the MkIVse be done DIY on the Mk3?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Better ask DavidZ or Mr.Yang that question. There may be reasons from his design stand point that none of us would know for sure.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Better ask DavidZ or Mr.Yang that question. There may be reasons from his design stand point that none of us would know for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sword did post a rewire diagram on the Littledot forum on this topic.

 Here it is:


Viewing a thread - 6N6P-I equivalents in LD mkIII? 

 You need to sign-in to view the illustrations.


----------



## ethebull

As to rewiring on the board, I personally wouldn't go that far to investigate power tube varieties. But here's a thought:

 Buy two new tube sockets (four total), do a pin to pin reconfiguration between them, glue the assembly together separated by a piece of plexi tubing... - Homemade tube adapters!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As to rewiring on the board, I personally wouldn't go that far to investigate power tube varieties. But here's a thought:

 Buy two new tube sockets (four total), do a pin to pin reconfiguration between them, glue the assembly together separated by a piece of plexi tubing... - Homemade tube adaptors!_

 

Do you think that could be done and withstand high temps? An adapter would be cool...turn the whole issue into a plug and play situation... hummmmm.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you think that could be done and withstand high temps? An adapter would be cool...turn the whole issue into a plug and play situation... hummmmm.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It would take some looking into. I'm sure there are materials choices that would hold up. Just thought I'd throw it out there.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you think that could be done and withstand high temps? An adapter would be cool...turn the whole issue into a plug and play situation... hummmmm.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It would take some looking into. I'm sure there are materials choices that would hold up. Just thought I'd throw it out there._

 

DoA, what do you think? Is this possible?
 Thanks!


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DoA, what do you think? Is this possible?
 Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've looked at some photos on line of various 9-pin socket types. The stack idea probably wouldn't work. The bottoms of sockets are not like the bottoms of tubes. However, if you soldered wired pins to the bottom of a loose socket, they could be repositioned to the desired pin arrangement. Then you'd have to figure out a way to anchor the pins into a plug-able adapter unit that would be fashioned into a one piece unit with the adapter socket. It would take some considerable fetutsing around... unless something like this already exists?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DoA, what do you think? Is this possible?
 Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It should be possible, the specs on the power tubes (6N6Pi and 5687) are close enough that they can be considered identical tubes with different pin outs. The temperature isn't really an issue being that the components inside the amp are rated to 85 degrees C while the plastics used in tube sockets and tube dampeners are usually rated to at least 250F (or 120C).

 Anyway, here's a rewiring diagram for those who want to build an adepter:





 ^Credit: SwordYang of LD


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've looked at some photos on line of various 9-pin socket types. The stack idea probably wouldn't work. The bottoms of sockets are not like the bottoms of tubes. However, if you soldered wired pins to the bottom of a loose socket, they could be repositioned to the desired pin arrangement. Then you'd have to figure out a way to anchor the pins in a plug-able adapter unit that would be fasioned into a one piece unit with the adapter socket. It would take some considerable fetutsing around... unless something like this already exists?_

 

As far as I know, Mikhail of Single Power makes some adeptors for his own amps, so it CAN be done.


----------



## robbmcaulay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tech2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the meantime, I'll continue watching ebay to see if he lists any more._

 

Buy these...

RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - eBay (item 260208610618 end time Feb-08-08 14:38:02 PST)

 ...and put me down for a pair if you think about selling them. My current ones have remnants of burnt sennheiser pads on them


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *robbmcaulay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Buy these...

RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - eBay (item 260208610618 end time Feb-08-08 14:38:02 PST)

 ...and put me down for a pair if you think about selling them. My current ones have remnants of burnt sennheiser pads on them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ah yes, the seller that I keep posting. They are the standard type. But next time I buy power tubes, they will be 5687/E182CC 's, once an adpater solution is at hand.


----------



## robbmcaulay

I realised it was the same guy, but he said he was looking out for a new listing.

 So... can I buy your old stock ones when you have an adapter?


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I know, Mikhail of Single Power makes some adeptors for his own amps, so it CAN be done. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I really open a can of worms with this haven't I. If its is possible then there will be some MK3 that will put a Mk4se to shame.


----------



## Tech2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *robbmcaulay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Buy these...

RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - eBay (item 260208610618 end time Feb-08-08 14:38:02 PST)

 ...and put me down for a pair if you think about selling them. My current ones have remnants of burnt sennheiser pads on them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Thanks.

 I ended up getting some of these, which appear to be identical to the ones shipped with my amp.

ECC99 / E182CC / RUSSIAN 6N6P / 8 NEW NOS !!! - eBay (item 360020134548 end time Feb-10-08 00:56:56 PST)


----------



## headcheck

Sometime one just have to take in a few moment to realise the magnitude of the situation. That "moment" for me was when I got my Tung-sol "black plate" 5654. 

 Expecting your normal 60's, 70's tube. I was floored when the packaged arrived. That indeed is 1951 on that box. 57 years since its been fired up. More then half a century!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Even the box smells like my grandfather
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For those with a keen eye, its also got 1-43 printed on it too. So it could be even older! Another bonus is that its the military JAN version(Oohh how sweet it feels!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). This thing is MAGIC, sorry but the M8100 has nothing on these out of the box. 

 So anyone with moments like these with your tubes?


----------



## Penchum

headcheck;3758339 said:
			
		

> Sometime one just have to take in a few moment to realise the magnitude of the situation. That "moment" for me was when I got my Tung-sol "black plate" 5654.
> 
> Expecting your normal 60's, 70's tube. I was floored when the packaged arrived. That indeed is 1951 on that box. 57 years since its been fired up. More then half a century!!!
> 
> ...


----------



## golgi

I just ordered some Tung-sol 5654/EF95 black plate tubes! Glad to know that you're impressed with them. I've been extremely impressed with the stock setup but reading about others having a good experience rolling in tubes pushed me to try it out. I also have a pair of Amperex EF92 on the way. At home I already I have the stock MKIII GE tubes as well as Mullard CV131 tubes. Once I get the two new pairs, I plan to do a comparison of all of them.


----------



## Tech2

There are a lot of options.

 My only gripe, and it's minor, is the jumpers. I wish there was a switch. I imagine it's made without a switch so that you can't accidentally set the amp incorrectly. It takes a deliberate action to set it up.

 Yesterday I took some EF92 Mullards to work to try out in the amp. I brought the tubes, jumpers, and a pair of tweezers to install them. I grabbed one jumper with the tweezers and -ZING- it shot across the room never to be seen again. Luckily our IT department had a bunch of spares. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But it's still a pain. I suppose I'll use some needle-nose pliers next time to get a better grip....

 ...or install my own switch. It would be simple enough to solder wires to the four pins and attach a single on-off switch. Just have to figure out where to mount it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tech2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are a lot of options.

 My only gripe, and it's minor, is the jumpers. I wish there was a switch. I imagine it's made without a switch so that you can't accidentally set the amp incorrectly. It takes a deliberate action to set it up.

 Yesterday I took some EF92 Mullards to work to try out in the amp. I brought the tubes, jumpers, and a pair of tweezers to install them. I grabbed one jumper with the tweezers and -ZING- it shot across the room never to be seen again. Luckily our IT department had a bunch of spares. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But it's still a pain. I suppose I'll use some needle-nose pliers next time to get a better grip....

 ...or install my own switch. It would be simple enough to solder wires to the four pins and attach a single on-off switch. Just have to figure out where to mount it._

 






 Pop, goes your warranty!


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Pop, goes your warranty! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

How about SuperGluing a 1.5" extender onto your jumpers. Cheap, easy, don't F yer warranty, simple as pie.


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *golgi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered some Tung-sol 5654/EF95 black plate tubes! Glad to know that you're impressed with them. I've been extremely impressed with the stock setup but reading about others having a good experience rolling in tubes pushed me to try it out. I also have a pair of Amperex EF92 on the way. At home I already I have the stock MKIII GE tubes as well as Mullard CV131 tubes. Once I get the two new pairs, I plan to do a comparison of all of them._

 

If they anything like mine then Its pretty much the cherry on top! How do they get such sound way back then
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IMO the setup now is on par with the MKIVse in sound with the 6H6NPi + Tungsol. Hey Penchum thats your cue for a comparison! Completely content right now even with only 25hr burn in


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If they anything like mine then Its pretty much the cherry on top! How do they get such sound way back then
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IMO the setup now is on par with the MKIVse in sound with the 6H6NPi + Tungsol. Hey Penchum thats your cue for a comparison! Completely content right now even with only 25hr burn in
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, once my MKIII gets here, and I give it some hours, I'll be posting for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be doing a full review as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Another interesting comparison would be the MKII with same tubes as the MKIII. Might as well run the scope of things up and down the ladder!


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, once my MKIII gets here, and I give it some hours, I'll be posting for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be doing a full review as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Another interesting comparison would be the MKII with same tubes as the MKIII. Might as well run the scope of things up and down the ladder! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If only you got a regular MKIV, then it will be a full house comparison.

 Arcturus. Now thats a blast from the past indeed. They where famous for having "blue" tubes right?

 BTW. How did you go with the laser heat test, any valid results?


----------



## Penchum

Anyone looking for the Russian NOS 6Zh1P-EV, EF95 compatable driver tubes, the guy I bought mine from has posted another set of 8 here: 6AK5-EF95-5654 Russian Tube 6Zh1P-EV. Lot of 8 - eBay (item 330209977725 end time Feb-12-08 13:01:11 PST)

 Good luck!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If only you got a regular MKIV, then it will be a full house comparison.

 Arcturus. Now thats a blast from the past indeed. They where famous for having "blue" tubes right?

 BTW. How did you go with the laser heat test, any valid results?_

 

I'm sorry, my brain if fried!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Which heat test? I think I had several yet to do!


----------



## Tech2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about SuperGluing a 1.5" extender onto your jumpers. Cheap, easy, don't F yer warranty, simple as pie._

 

Perfect.


----------



## YtseJamer

Do you know where I can purchase 2 x Mullards M8161 ?

 Thanks


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you know where I can purchase 2 x Mullards M8161 ?

 Thanks_

 

These are the real ones, with the shield on them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


Mullard M8161 / CV4015 Mil. Spec. Little Dot Amp EF92 - eBay (item 280197518453 end time Feb-08-08 17:44:55 PST)

 Good luck!


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These are the real ones, with the shield on them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



Mullard M8161 / CV4015 Mil. Spec. Little Dot Amp EF92 - eBay (item 280197518453 end time Feb-08-08 17:44:55 PST)

 Good luck! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, I'll buy them


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, I'll buy them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That seller, is a really great guy. I've conversed with him and purchased his tubes before, and they are always in perfect condition. Fear not.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That seller, is a really great guy. I've conversed with him and purchased his tubes before, and they are always in perfect condition. Fear not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

x2. He's got great service and stocks some amazing tubes. Probably the best source for LD tubes on ebay.


----------



## golgi

I received the Amperex EF92 tubes today in their original boxes. I'm already amazed by these tubes. I just put them in and already I can tell there is more detail at the frequency extremes and for some reason the sound just seems more clear. As if there was a very very light haze with the stock tubes. Also I perceive a little more sparkle to the highs with these tubes. I can't wait till these burn in a bit. Next will be a comparison to the Tung Sol black plates!


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *golgi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received the Amperex EF92 tubes today in their original boxes. I'm already amazed by these tubes. I just put them in and already I can tell there is more detail at the frequency extremes and for some reason the sound just seems more clear. As if there was a very very light haze with the stock tubes. Also I perceive a little more sparkle to the highs with these tubes. I can't wait till these burn in a bit. Next will be a comparison to the Tung Sol black plates!_

 

wunderbar, tastes better than the old dog chow.


----------



## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2. He's got great service and stocks some amazing tubes. Probably the best source for LD tubes on ebay._

 

Yes, I've bought several tubes from him over the past month or so and he is excellent! I received my Mullard M8161's from him today! About to put them in (if I can figure out how to install the jumper) and burn them in. Will report back once they have some burn in hours on them.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I've bought several tubes from him over the past month or so and he is excellent! I received my Mullard M8161's from him today! About to put them in (if I can figure out how to install the jumper) and burn them in. Will report back once they have some burn in hours on them._

 

Hey Roger! I promise you they are "sweet"!!!


----------



## RogerB

Geez!!! I just installed the jumpers using needle nose pliers.

 Could this possibly be any more difficult???

 OK, the M8161's are in place and burn in is about to commence.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That seller, is a really great guy. I've conversed with him and purchased his tubes before, and they are always in perfect condition. Fear not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have just bought the Mullards M8161 from yen1233 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Little Dot MKIII has been released from the customs in Vancouver tonight, it should be in Montreal this Friday.

 I just can't wait anymore


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just bought the Mullards M8161 from yen1233 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Little Dot MKIII has been released from the customs in Vancouver tonight, it should be in Montreal this Friday.

 I just can't wait anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That will make for a good weekend, if you can get it on Friday!


----------



## Penchum

Roger......Roger.....are you in a daze? Did the M8161's put you into shock? We are all waiting to hear whats going on!


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry, my brain if fried!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Which heat test? I think I had several yet to do!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The one about whether having tube off the sockets will make the case cooler or not.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The one about whether having tube off the sockets will make the case cooler or not._

 

See what I mean! I guess I need your handle! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That one is next on my list. I'll try and get at it today.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The one about whether having tube off the sockets will make the case cooler or not._

 

RESULTS ARE IN: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I used my MKII, with Russian Power tubes and Russian EF95 Driver tubes. Room temperature was 70 degrees F, and from a cold start, ran the amp for two hours with tubes down, took measurements, then cooled off, then two hours with tubes up approximately 2-3mm and took measurements. Here are the results:

 Tubes down tight:

 Amp Housing: 110F
 Amp Face: 103F
 Amp Top Plate: 128F
 XFormer Housing: 130F
 Rear Tubes: 230F
 Front Tubes: 140F

 Tubes 2-3mm raised in socket:

 Amp Housing: 110F
 Amp Face: 98F
 Amp Top Plate: 124F
 XFormer Housing: 130F
 Rear Tubes: 230F
 Front Tubes: 140F

 As you can see, there were slight temperature drops on the top plate and face plate, but only 4-5 degrees F. Not enough to really warrant the risk of having exposed pins IMHO. What this little test does show, is that the heat dissipation is constant over time. This will result in longer life for the amp. The new design (internal) lends itself to spreading the heat out over the housing better, and this makes the dissipation of that heat more efficient.
 This MKII continues to impress me every time I do something new with it!


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_RESULTS ARE IN: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I used my MKII, with Russian Power tubes and Russian EF95 Driver tubes. Room temperature was 70 degrees F, and from a cold start, ran the amp for two hours with tubes down, took measurements, then cooled off, then two hours with tubes up approximately 2-3mm and took measurements. Here are the results:

 Tubes down tight:

 Amp Housing: 110F
 Amp Face: 103F
 Amp Top Plate: 128F
 XFormer Housing: 130F
 Rear Tubes: 230F
 Front Tubes: 140F

 Tubes 2-3mm raised in socket:

 Amp Housing: 110F
 Amp Face: 98F
 Amp Top Plate: 124F
 XFormer Housing: 130F
 Rear Tubes: 230F
 Front Tubes: 140F

 As you can see, there were slight temperature drops on the top plate and face plate, but only 4-5 degrees F. Not enough to really warrant the risk of having exposed pins IMHO. What this little test does show, is that the heat dissipation is constant over time. This will result in longer life for the amp. The new design (internal) lends itself to spreading the heat out over the housing better, and this makes the dissipation of that heat more efficient.
 This MKII continues to impress me every time I do something new with it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So my fingers where right after all: Thats very reassuring to know the tubes are not affected sitting up. Sound is still as sweet as ever too. As an Aussie would say: Love ya work!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So my fingers where right after all: Thats very reassuring to know the tubes are not affected sitting up. Sound is still as sweet as ever too. As an Aussie would say: Love ya work!!_

 

Thank you sir! It did give me an idea though. If you took some really small diameter heat shrink, and covered the first 3-4mm of the pins as they come out of the glass of the tube, you could then set the tube in the socket, until the heat shrink hits the socket. This would protect your connections and give you the 3-4mm raise you wanted. Think it's worth trying?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Why are we pulling the tubes partially out of their sockets again?


----------



## Penchum

I've been using these Russian NOS 6Zh1P-EV EF95 compatible driver tubes for about 150 hours now. I'll share what I know about them. All my impressions have been using the Little-Dot MKII tube amplifier:

 First, they have a unique design. There are three molded indentations running down the length of the outside diameter of the tubes. This suggests they were "secured" tight in whatever original use they had. This also suggests they are extremely rugged for that same original use. I wouldn't be surprised if they were made for military aircraft use.

 Second, they took less than 40 hours to mature. I'm not sure if this is due to their heavy duty construction, or close tolerances (higher quality) internally. My guess would be the higher quality.

 Third, they have become my favorite EF95 tubes, for all types of music. They have no noise, excellent control over all frequencies, present an amazing amount of dynamics and a sound stage that is more than pleasing. Using the best sources I have, these tubes really show their stuff, while maintaining some of that "tube" warmth we all expect.

 Forth, I would have to say these little wonders are directly competing with the better EF92 tubes. The frequency response is surprisingly flat, highs are extended and clear, and the lows are just fantastic! Plenty of clean punch, while showing the ability to reproduce those bass ranges where bass guitars and synthesizers like to play.

 Fifth, the cost is so low for this kind of performance, everyone should get a set before demand raises the prices. I have no idea if these tubes are stock piled, but they are showing up more frequently on eBay. For the MKII, these little gems have become my new standard of performance for EF95 tubes. I hope everyone who has a MKII or MKIII, will acquire a set. They are just too nice to pass on.


----------



## Penchum

Dept_of_Alchemy;3775433 said:
			
		

> Why are pulling the tubes partially out of their sockets again?
> 
> The idea HeadCheck brought forth, was that the tube heat was directly being absorbed by the top plate. He had raised the tubes up, and thought for sure he could tell a difference in the temperature of the entire amp. So, I decided to bench check the idea, to see if heat transfer (directly) was truly adding to the housing of the amp. The temperatures suggest that while small amounts of heat (4-5 degrees) were not attributable to the overall heat of the unit, they did show up on the top plate and face plate. Not really anything to worry about, just nice to know facts.


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why are we pulling the tubes partially out of their sockets again?




_

 

Sorry DoA. I first raised this little experiment in the "joining the little dot family" thread, but sort of jumped track here too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice kitty


----------



## Penchum

Man, that cat has the serious bug eyes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It was a fun test though. It answered some questions I had in my mind as well, so it was worth it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I want to know why there are so many different metals used for the pins. I understand the ruggedness side of the equation, like salt air, high altitude and anti-corrosive measures, but are there other considerations that were made on some older tubes?


----------



## Jaunty

Hello everyone. I got my LDM MkIII second hand with no jumpers. Are these the things I need if I decide to try tube rolling with the jumpers in?

Maplin > Jumper Pins

 Thanks for any feedback


----------



## ethebull

Jumpers are only needed for EF92, EF91, CV138, CV131 and similar

 Stock 5654's and EF95 varieties do not need them. You can get jumpers at any computer supplies or electronics hobbyist store.


----------



## Jaunty

Thanks. Is the link I've given the jumpers that I need?


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaunty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. Is the link I've given the jumpers that I need?_

 

Yeah, but you won't need 50 of them


----------



## Jaunty

Cheers. They sell them with "handles" as well which might be less fiddly than using pliers/tweezers, if the handles are not too long. 

Maplin > Jumper Pin with Handle


----------



## ethebull

Those look cool, but if anything the handle extention may not be long enough to grab hold of below the chassis. The jumpers are tiny and the pins are recessed pretty deep. Anyway, enjoy your amp!

 E


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been using these Russian NOS 6Zh1P-EV EF95 compatible driver tubes for about 150 hours now. I'll share what I know about them. All my impressions have been using the Little-Dot MKII tube amplifier:

 First, they have a unique design. There are three molded indentations running down the length of the outside diameter of the tubes. This suggests they were "secured" tight in whatever original use they had. This also suggests they are extremely rugged for that same original use. I wouldn't be surprised if they were made for military aircraft use.

 Second, they took less than 40 hours to mature. I'm not sure if this is due to their heavy duty construction, or close tolerances (higher quality) internally. My guess would be the higher quality.

 Third, they have become my favorite EF95 tubes, for all types of music. They have no noise, excellent control over all frequencies, present an amazing amount of dynamics and a sound stage that is more than pleasing. Using the best sources I have, these tubes really show their stuff, while maintaining some of that "tube" warmth we all expect.

 Forth, I would have to say these little wonders are directly competing with the better EF92 tubes. The frequency response is surprisingly flat, highs are extended and clear, and the lows are just fantastic! Plenty of clean punch, while showing the ability to reproduce those bass ranges where bass guitars and synthesizers like to play.

 Fifth, the cost is so low for this kind of performance, everyone should get a set before demand raises the prices. I have no idea if these tubes are stock piled, but they are showing up more frequently on eBay. For the MKII, these little gems have become my new standard of performance for EF95 tubes. I hope everyone who has a MKII or MKIII, will acquire a set. They are just too nice to pass on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, I said I wasn't going to buy any more EF95 tubes...

 Penchum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 For those of you duking it out on the auction currently on ebay, this seller has'em in batches of 4 or 8 for less with buy-it-now:

6AK5W - 5654 - 6ZH1P-EV Tubes. Set of 8 - eBay (item 290203078573 end time Mar-01-08 12:23:14 PST)

 I am correct in this r i not Penchum?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I said I wasn't going to buy any more EF95 tubes...

 Penchum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 For those of you duking it out on the auction currently on ebay, this seller has'em in batches of 4 or 8 for less with buy-it-now:

6AK5W - 5654 - 6ZH1P-EV Tubes. Set of 8 - eBay (item 290203078573 end time Mar-01-08 12:23:14 PST)

 I am correct in this r i not Penchum?_

 

Yes sir! Those are the ones! If you look close at his pics, you'll see the indentations in the tube glass, running up and down, which makes them kinda unique.


----------



## ethebull

Cool! I already bought some 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I figure at the price it's a can't lose.


----------



## Penchum

It's funny you brought those tubes up when you did. I just happen to be listening to them in my MKII, with HD-650s plopped on my head. Rush, "New World Man" playing from the Zune80. I was thinking about Neil Peart's use of the high-hat. It is so clear and detailed with these tubes! The man is the wizard of percussion, for sure!


----------



## Caribou679

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been using these Russian NOS 6Zh1P-EV EF95 compatible driver tubes for about 150 hours now. I'll share what I know about them. All my impressions have been using the Little-Dot MKII tube amplifier:

 First, they have a unique design. There are three molded indentations running down the length of the outside diameter of the tubes. This suggests they were "secured" tight in whatever original use they had. This also suggests they are extremely rugged for that same original use. I wouldn't be surprised if they were made for military aircraft use.

 Second, they took less than 40 hours to mature. I'm not sure if this is due to their heavy duty construction, or close tolerances (higher quality) internally. My guess would be the higher quality.

 Third, they have become my favorite EF95 tubes, for all types of music. They have no noise, excellent control over all frequencies, present an amazing amount of dynamics and a sound stage that is more than pleasing. Using the best sources I have, these tubes really show their stuff, while maintaining some of that "tube" warmth we all expect.

 Forth, I would have to say these little wonders are directly competing with the better EF92 tubes. The frequency response is surprisingly flat, highs are extended and clear, and the lows are just fantastic! Plenty of clean punch, while showing the ability to reproduce those bass ranges where bass guitars and synthesizers like to play.

 Fifth, the cost is so low for this kind of performance, everyone should get a set before demand raises the prices. I have no idea if these tubes are stock piled, but they are showing up more frequently on eBay. For the MKII, these little gems have become my new standard of performance for EF95 tubes. I hope everyone who has a MKII or MKIII, will acquire a set. They are just too nice to pass on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 


 For as much as I wanted to take my time and let the amp ample burn-in time before starting to roll-lamp, and as much as I like what I listen currently coming from the MKIII with 26 hours of use, I did buy a 4 set of these tubes!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let the good time roll...

 regards,


----------



## Jaunty

I got some too (I got a bit carried away this weekend actually, have bought various valves - EF91 & EF92 as well - and I've barely warmed my stock tubes up yet!).

 As there are 8 in this particular set, there will be a combination of 4 pairs that are a better match than otherwise. Is it worth trying to find a place could do that for me (as I don't have a clue or the equipment).

 Cheers all. I will try and post some comments on the different valves once I have received them, but I'm a complete noobie at this sort of thing...


----------



## Penchum

No worries! By the time they arrive, you guys will have plenty of hours on your amps.


----------



## Jaunty

I see Little Dot have said to Penchum over on their site that they will look into if an adapter for the power tubes is possible


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaunty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see Little Dot have said to Penchum over on their site that they will look into if an adapter for the power tubes is possible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's all my fault ( 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) 

 Here's the link:

Viewing a thread - Modify MK3 to use 5687 tube?

 I'd rather buy'em than make'em


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaunty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see Little Dot have said to Penchum over on their site that they will look into if an adapter for the power tubes is possible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's all my fault ( 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) 

 Here's the link:

Viewing a thread - Modify MK3 to use 5687 tube?

 I'd rather buy'em than make'em_

 

It's a good thing! Maybe Sword will whip us up some!! That would be great!


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a good thing! Maybe Sword will whip us up some!! That would be great!_

 

Im so glad that my two cents worth into the idea may come to reality. My soldering iron is ready too. This would open up so much more options 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Teflon or PTFE would be the ideal material to use (and my work has a truck load of them for jig making, now if only the engineer's will let me loose on the CAD & CNC
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like a PCB by having layers for the original pin out up to another layer to the 5687 pinout. but I think LD is ahead already. This little thing will sell like hotcakes if it happens!!! Hey ethebull & Penchum, wonder if we can give it a name


----------



## Jaunty

I have so many tubes on their way to me from around the world I'll have to buy another Little Dot amp I think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Took a chance on these Brimars, the seller had 2 of them

EF92 CVX4015 9D6 BRIMAR PROTOTYPE VALVE TUBE NEW 1PC FB on eBay, also Valves Electronic Tubes, Audio, Vintage Electronics, Consumer Electronics (end time 11-Feb-08 02:39:30 GMT)

 Also got some (unmatched) Mullard M8161s at a fair price. The vendor posts worldwide as far as I know but they don't take PayPal which might be awkward for you non-UKers.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im so glad that my two cents worth into the idea may come to reality. My soldering iron is ready too. This would open up so much more options 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Teflon or PTFE would be the ideal material to use (and my work has a truck load of them for jig making, now if only the engineer's will let me loose on the CAD & CNC
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like a PCB by having layers for the original pin out up to another layer to the 5687 pinout. but I think LD is ahead already. This little thing will sell like hotcakes if it happens!!! Hey ethebull & Penchum, wonder if we can give it a name
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm glad you are keeping options open. There is always two sides to this kind of thing. One is the inexpensive adapter that will sell like mad, and the other is a super quality no cost spared adapter, that the top 20% of users will buy because they look wonderful. Me, I sit on the fence waiting to see both, probably would buy both if the high-end adapter was "special".


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaunty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have so many tubes on their way to me from around the world I'll have to buy another Little Dot amp I think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Took a chance on these Brimars, the seller had 2 of them

EF92 CVX4015 9D6 BRIMAR PROTOTYPE VALVE TUBE NEW 1PC FB on eBay, also Valves Electronic Tubes, Audio, Vintage Electronics, Consumer Electronics (end time 11-Feb-08 02:39:30 GMT)

 Also got some (unmatched) Mullard M8161s at a fair price. The vendor posts worldwide as far as I know but they don't take PayPal which might be awkward for you non-UKers._

 

I have a set of the NOS Brimars, super mellow and laid back. A unique sound for sure. You will love the M8161's! One of the best sounding tubes anywhere!


----------



## ethebull

Check-out this page:

Leeds Radio - tubes sockets

 near the bottom, they list the following:

 9 pin minature plug fits sockets for ECC-83, 12AX7
 good for making tube adapters and test jigs (rfe)$4.50

 They also have 9 pin sockets of various quality and design. I sent them an inquiry explaining my interest in making a DIY tube adapter. Updates will be posted here.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should be possible, the specs on the power tubes (6N6Pi and 5687) are close enough that they can be considered identical tubes with different pin outs. The temperature isn't really an issue being that the components inside the amp are rated to 85 degrees C while the plastics used in tube sockets and tube dampeners are usually rated to at least 250F (or 120C).

 Anyway, here's a rewiring diagram for those who want to build an adepter:





 ^Credit: SwordYang of LD_

 

Ok, maybe a dumb question, but are we looking at the pin config from above or below here?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check-out this page:

Leeds Radio - tubes sockets

 near the bottom, they list the following:

 9 pin minature plug fits sockets for ECC-83, 12AX7
 good for making tube adapters and test jigs (rfe)$4.50

 They also have 9 pin sockets of various quality and design. I sent them an inquiry explaining my interest in making a DIY tube adapter. Updates will be posted here._

 

Excellent find!! You going to acquire some?


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent find!! You going to acquire some? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Soon I think. I asked them this:

 I believe the second one listed is the right size?

 I would then need two tube sockets that would provide the easiest base/specs to fashion the adapter which would not be mounted to a chassis, but with the best design to secure it solidly to the socket with space to wire the pin reconfiguration. 

 I'll call them if I don't hear back. Probably order some sockets and plugs regardless. Almost there!


----------



## Penchum

I received my 2 pairs of Mullard EF91's from Argentina this afternoon!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I put one set in my LDII++, and then reconfigured my MKII for the other set.
 Initial impressions from both amps, "These sound like great Mullards, right out of the box!" I'll run them for 40-50hrs and follow up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a side note, I had a matched pair of EF92 6CQ6 Haltrons in the LDII++, for over 60 hrs. In the end, they sound exactly like the 6CQ6 Mullards. If another set becomes available, don't hesitate to pull the trigger. Very, very nice indeed! The price was 1/3 of the Mullards!


----------



## ethebull

Tomorrow I will call Leeds Radio and order some adapter parts. They responded to my inquiry. From what they said, it will take some creativity to fashion the adapters, but I’m up to the challenge. 

 So Penchum (and others), what 5687 tubes should I look to buy? Tung Sol’s seem to be the default hot ticket - what are you using with those Ruskie EF95’s that you’re all rev’d up about? (and that I have on the way) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, David Z responded to my question on the view in the pin diagram. It is the bottom view.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tomorrow I will call Leeds Radio and order some adapter parts. They responded to my inquiry. From what they said, it will take some creativity to fashion the adapters, but I’m up to the challenge. 

 So Penchum (and others), what 5687 tubes should I look to buy? Tung Sol’s seem to be the default hot ticket - what are you using with those Ruskie EF95’s that you’re all rev’d up about? (and that I have on the way) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, David Z responded to my question on the view in the pin diagram. It is the bottom view._

 

For the 5687's, it is wide open. Old Tung-Sols would be nice, GE 5-Stars or WWII era are nice, so would the purity of the newer Philips. Amperex 7119's will cost plenty, the Arcturus 7044 is my NOS favorite right now.

 The Russian tubes are EF95 compatibles. So, that might be an interesting combination with 5687's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man, an adapter is going to open up choices like totally!!! My brain just ran off with itself!!


----------



## ethebull

Parts are ordered, wires are ready...


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

I found some Mullard M8100 printed with the Mullard Shield on ebay, thought I'd pass the info along for anyone interested in trying out some of the best Mullards ever made.

Mullard M8100 / CV4010 Mil. Spec. Little Dot Amp EF95 - eBay (item 280199380432 end time Feb-15-08 17:33:04 PST)


----------



## YtseJamer

Hello,

 Is there someone here with the Beyerdynamic DT880 ?

 I'd like to know what would be the best tubes to soften the highs of my DT880 a little bit ?

 Currently I have the stock tubes and I should receive the Mullards 8161 soon.

 Thanks


----------



## ethebull

I don't own the Beyer's, but as my K701's were breaking in, I experimented with "donuts" inserted into the earcups. You can definately tailor (reduce) the highs that way. Figuring it would only be a temporary need, I just used a paper towel to fashon the donut "filter". Now that the 701's are burned in nicely, I don't feel the need to donut them - you might want to give it a try on your DT's, an interesting experiment regardless.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't own the Beyer's, but as my K701's were breaking in, I experimented with "donuts" inserted into the earcups. You can definately tailor (reduce) the highs that way. Figuring it would only be a temporary need, I just used a paper towel to fashon the donut "filter". Now that the 701's are burned in nicely, I don't feel the need to donut them - you might want to give it a try on your DT's, an interesting experiment regardless._

 


 Thanks for the tip


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Parts are ordered, wires are ready..._

 

Well my progress on this adaptor thingy.One of them anyway, and less complex then another idea I had.

 For the pin outs to connect to the MK3, that was easy. (just re-used the bottom glass section of the 6h6n, very carefully sawed off-CRUDE!!) "YES a tube got sacrificed".Next bend/solder some copper wire to the correct pin out for 5687 to a 9 pin socket.Looks like a maze (difficult not for them to touch) in this section. Next to get everything to stay into position. Im thinking about making up a mould, and pouring resin into it to set rock hard. With the 6h6n pins out at one end and the socket for the 5687 out the other end. Problem is that its going to be slightly wider then the tube. So those beautifull MK3 tube rings may have to go
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still toying with a PCB section where the wires section are now to decrease the overall height. 

 Man it to much work to get this of the ground and working.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Should just enjoy those Russian tube as they are shouldn't I?


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man it's too much work to get this off the ground and working.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Should just enjoy those Russian tubes as they are shouldn't I?_

 

Yeah, curiosity killed the tube roller. I've been shopping around looking for 5687/7119's and I'm really wondering why I started down this path in making adapters. If anything, I should make an adapter to allow folks stuck using uber expensive 5687's to convert over to the excellent and affordable 6H6n's.

 Recieved my litle parts package yesterday. Still working out the best way to stack and secure everything.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, curiosity killed the tube roller. I've been shopping around looking for 5687/7119's and I'm really wondering why I started down this path in making adapters. If anything, I should make an adapter to allow folks stuck using uber expensive 5687's to convert over to the excellent and affordable 6H6n's.

 Recieved my litle parts package yesterday. Still working out the best way to stack and secure everything._

 

If there is a PVC pipe with interior diameter about the same as the socket's outer diameter? I was envisioning this with a short piece of the next size down piping glued inside as a shelf for the socket to rest on and get glued in place. You could make the outer pipe just long enough to house the wires in a 360 degree twist, or just enough twist to put most tube's logo directly forward on the amp. Paint the pipe to match the amp. Bad idea?


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If there is a PVC pipe with interior diameter about the same as the socket's outer diameter? I was envisioning this with a short piece of the next size down piping glued inside as a shelf for the socket to rest on and get glued in place. You could make the outer pipe just long enough to house the wires in a 360 degree twist, or just enough twist to put most tube's logo directly forward on the amp. Paint the pipe to match the amp. Bad idea? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm concerned about glue. Many epoxy glues break down (liquify) at 250 degrees or so and I want these things to be rock solid. I'm going to go to the hardware store and radioshack to look at stuff today. One thought is to use a thin long countersunk fine threaded machine screw down the center of the assembly.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm concerned about glue. Many epoxy glues break down (liquify) at 250 degrees or so and I want these things to be rock solid. I'm going to go to the hardware store and radioshack to look at stuff today. One thought is to use a thin long countersunk fine threaded machine screw down the center of the assembly._

 

Interesting. I guess I was hoping the heat would be less, with the tube being open to the air on a pedestal.


----------



## ethebull

Looks like it'll do. Copper pipe cap drilled for wires. Assembly held together with a fine threaded machine screw


----------



## ethebull

A couple more shots


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A couple more shots_

 

Bravo! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You sir, are a steely eyed missile man!


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Wow, that looks great! How much?


----------



## Tech2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A couple more shots_

 

That is way cool.

 Well done.


----------



## RogerB

Hey guys! Here's an update on my tube rolling experience!

 Work has been killing me lately (I'm a tax accountant) but since I got my MKIII for Christmas I have been purchasing numerous tubes and finally have enough burn in hours on them to pass judgement on what I consider to be my favorites so far!

 In the EF95 family - The Amperex 5654's are my fav's by a pretty good margin. Simply excellent tubes!! 

 In the EF92 family - Without a doubt the Mullard M8161's!!!! Outstanding tubes that sound silky smooth and leave you with a big smile on your face!!

 That's it! I've bought and tried other tubes from the various families and the two above tubes are my favorites!

 Get em' and enjoy em' !!!!!!


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like it'll do. Copper pipe cap drilled for wires. Assembly held together with a fine threaded machine screw_

 

Now that, Mr. Bull, is truly a beautiful thing!

 Should that mug o' ale be in such close proximity to the electronic work? But more importantly....what's your flavor?!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys! Here's an update on my tube rolling experience!

 Work has been killing me lately (I'm a tax accountant) but since I got my MKIII for Christmas I have been purchasing numerous tubes and finally have enough burn in hours on them to pass judgement on what I consider to be my favorites so far!

 In the EF95 family - The Amperex 5654's are my fav's by a pretty good margin. Simply excellent tubes!! 

 In the EF92 family - Without a doubt the Mullard M8161's!!!! Outstanding tubes that sound silky smooth and leave you with a big smile on your face!!

 That's it! I've bought and tried other tubes from the various families and the two above tubes are my favorites!

 Get em' and enjoy em' !!!!!!_

 

Hi Roger!
 I knew those M8161's would rock your world! I'm going to have to try those Amperex 5654s. I keep putting off picking up a set, so now I'll just have too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now your MKIII seems like a MK3000. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy the tunes!


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys! Here's an update on my tube rolling experience!

 Work has been killing me lately (I'm a tax accountant) but since I got my MKIII for Christmas I have been purchasing numerous tubes and finally have enough burn in hours on them to pass judgement on what I consider to be my favorites so far!

 In the EF95 family - The Amperex 5654's are my fav's by a pretty good margin. Simply excellent tubes!! 

 In the EF92 family - Without a doubt the Mullard M8161's!!!! Outstanding tubes that sound silky smooth and leave you with a big smile on your face!!

 That's it! I've bought and tried other tubes from the various families and the two above tubes are my favorites!

 Get em' and enjoy em' !!!!!!_

 

Thanks for the update, Roger!

 I'm going to have to get on with my tube rolling comparisons. I have National 403B's, Joint Gov't 5654's, & the M8161's in addition to the stocks. I burnt the stocks in, gave a quick listen to the 403B's & 5654's, then....put in the M8161's, where they've burned in & stayed in ever since! Hmmm, can't really make any comparisons yet until I give the others a fair chance of burn in. The other side of it too, sadly enough, is that I've been too lazy to be taking the jumpers on & off with the "not-so-needley" needle-nosed pliers I have. I had a minor case of springing & flinging the jumpers thru the housing during my 1st attempts. Am I the only one of us to find myself "gently" shaking the amp around to get those li'l bastards out the underside holes??? (You can at least picture my pain though, right?). What tricks do you guys have, other than dismantling the housing...or the too simple route of buying some better tools (that would be too easy!)?


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Roger!
 I knew those M8161's would rock your world! I'm going to have to try those Amperex 5654s. I keep putting off picking up a set, so now I'll just have too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now your MKIII seems like a MK3000. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy the tunes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Maybe it's the fact that I don't have the Amperex's to inspire me to take those M8161's out!


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now that, Mr. Bull, is truly a beautiful thing!

 Should that mug o' ale be in such close proximity to the electronic work? But more importantly....what's your flavor?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL!!

 Thanks to all for your appreciative comments. It's a goodly pain in the @ss to make these, but I will post a thorough step by step breakdown for those interested in doin their own.

 I used to be a home brewer as well. After a good 100+ batches, I moved on to other hobbies. Today's "tube adapter calibration ale" is "Eye of the Hawk" from Mendocino Brewing Co. from, oddly enough, Saratoga Springs NY - (home of Serotta cycles!)


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A couple more shots_

 

Well Done Sir!!!

 Those pins, gota get some of those!! how much?


----------



## Danika k

Is anyone familiar with the Mullard/IEC EF92's? How do they sound?

Mullard IEC EF92 / 6CQ6 NOS tube Little Dot Amp MkIII - eBay (item 280201851044 end time Feb-24-08 17:03:19 PST)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Danika k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is anyone familiar with the Mullard/IEC EF92's? How do they sound?

Mullard IEC EF92 / 6CQ6 NOS tube Little Dot Amp MkIII - eBay (item 280201851044 end time Feb-24-08 17:03:19 PST)_

 

Hi!

 The 6CQ6 sound almost as good as the M8161's. So close, some people use them instead of the higher cost M8161s. If you already have the M8161's, I'm not sure the purchase is worth your money in the end.


----------



## ilgello

eBay.ie: 4 x Mullard EF91 CV4014 M8083 pentode valves (item 180207020318 end time 13-Feb-08 16:43:40 GMT)

 Got these today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: on the valve doesn't say M8083 but I can see the shield is it a military grade ?

 In 1 of the 4 there is a different and smaller shield on the back is that making any differences ?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_eBay.ie: 4 x Mullard EF91 CV4014 M8083 pentode valves (item 180207020318 end time 13-Feb-08 16:43:40 GMT)

 Got these today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: on the valve doesn't say M8083 but I can see the shield is it a military grade ?

 In 1 of the 4 there is a different and smaller shield on the back is that making any differences ?_

 

I don't think so. My 4 had 2 different, and all is good.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_eBay.ie: 4 x Mullard EF91 CV4014 M8083 pentode valves (item 180207020318 end time 13-Feb-08 16:43:40 GMT)

 Got these today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 PS: on the valve doesn't say M8083 but I can see the shield is it a military grade ?

 In 1 of the 4 there is a different and smaller shield on the back is that making any differences ?_

 

If they're not printed M8083 then they're not military grade but rather are just ordinary Mullard EF91's. They're still Mullards though, so they will still sound like Mullards even though the M-series has more robust internal construction and lower noise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How is the soundstage?


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If they're not printed M8083 then they're not military grade but rather are just ordinary Mullard EF91's. They're still Mullards though, so they will still sound like Mullards even though the M-series has more robust internal construction and lower noise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How is the soundstage?_

 

Thanks guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It just says cv4014 on one....

 I'm still burning in the M8100 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (and I have another 2 sets on the way).

 I like the 8100 more then the stock ones, they are like warmer...

 I'm using a pair of hd600 and a pair of 325i, but also if I can hear that the grado are more clear I really can't get used to that sound so I might sell them and stick to the Senn and use them for all the testing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm a trip pop kind of guy I probably just don't like the highs...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks Head Fi,


 After careful consideration I have ordered the LD MK III. I feel it represents an excellent bang for buck value. 

 I'm undecided on head phones although I do have AKG 240M's (that are ancient and power hungry). I'm leaning toward HD600's used or new.

 Source for the time being is the analog out of a Auzen Prelude 7.1 card. Stock op amps.

 I just placed the order for the LD about 20 minutes ago....so I'll most likely have it late next week.

 I'll post some impressions after it's burned in for 48 hrs first. I imagine the old K240's might do well with this amp. I'll know fairly quickly once the amp gets here.

 I'm taking this process one step at a time as the forum's members have suggested I do. Luckily the local music shop's manager is a good friend and will lend me some other brands of head phones to try out free of charge (a really cool guy).

 Well, enjoy the music Head Fi'er's and thanks for the insight/advice


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Head Fi,


 After careful consideration I have ordered the LD MK III. I feel it represents an excellent bang for buck value. 

 I'm undecided on head phones although I do have AKG 240M's (that are ancient and power hungry). I'm leaning toward HD600's used or new.

 Source for the time being is the analog out of a Auzen Prelude 7.1 card. Stock op amps.

 I just placed the order for the LD about 20 minutes ago....so I'll most likely have it late next week.

 I'll post some impressions after it's burned in for 48 hrs first. I imagine the old K240's might do well with this amp. I'll know fairly quickly once the amp gets here.

 I'm taking this process one step at a time as the forum's members have suggested I do. Luckily the local music shop's manager is a good friend and will lend me some other brands of head phones to try out free of charge (a really cool guy).

 Well, enjoy the music Head Fi'er's and thanks for the insight/advice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congratulations! You've made an excellent choice! So have I!! I found out mine is on it's way too!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think your idea of getting the HD-600's is a good one. I have those, and really like how they sound with my other LD amps. I can safely say "you can't go wrong" with them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As soon as my MKIII arrives, I will start compiling data for my full review. I'm getting pretty good at them, so I hope to have it done within 7 business days. This will also give me time to "enjoy" the MKIII, which is important for the overall impression of the amp.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congratulations! You've made an excellent choice! So have I!! I found out mine is on it's way too!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think your idea of getting the HD-600's is a good one. I have those, and really like how they sound with my other LD amps. I can safely say "you can't go wrong" with them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As soon as my MKIII arrives, I will start compiling data for my full review. I'm getting pretty good at them, so I hope to have it done within 7 business days. This will also give me time to "enjoy" the MKIII, which is important for the overall impression of the amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Thanks Penchum. Your reviews were what sold me on the LD brand !! I think David should give you a 10% discount on future purchase's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm curious to hear the K240M's with this amp. It's kinda hard to find used HD600's, seems no one who has a pair want to part with them (not that I would blame them ). I have to wait for my Tax return anyhow so in the mean time I'll try and borrow different models & brands from friends (if possible).

 I look forward to your Mk III review !!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Penchum. Your reviews were what sold me on the LD brand !! I think David should give you a 10% discount on future purchase's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm curious to hear the K240M's with this amp. It's kinda hard to find used HD600's, seems no one who has a pair want to part with them (not that I would blame them ). I have to wait for my Tax return anyhow so in the mean time I'll try and borrow different models & brands from friends (if possible).

 I look forward to your Mk III review !!_

 

Thanks for the kind words! I bought my HD-600's from Comp-U-plus, for $258, which is a reasonable price. Look here: Sennheiser HD 600 Professional Stereo - CompUPlus Direct

 I think you have to click for the price. I wanted to buy them new, so I could control the burn-in process myself, and not worry about replacing the pads or cables for it. That might seem picky, but they are a personal item that you wear, so it makes me feel better having them new.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Penchum. Your reviews were what sold me on the LD brand !! I think David should give you a 10% discount on future purchase's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm curious to hear the K240M's with this amp. It's kinda hard to find used HD600's, seems no one who has a pair want to part with them (not that I would blame them ). I have to wait for my Tax return anyhow so in the mean time I'll try and borrow different models & brands from friends (if possible).

 I look forward to your Mk III review !!_

 

There's an ebay seller who has new HD580's for $169, he seems to have the last stash of these. From all reports, the 580 and 600 are super close to one another. 

 I was impressed with the MkIII right out of the gate with my very old (1982) vintage K240's. They were the "sextett" version which still has a following to this day. In fact I sold them for $155 on eBay, having paid $109 as I recall back in 1982!

 I will be interested in Mr. Penchum's thoughts on the MkIII as well. I believe the only current LD not in his stable is the standard MkIV. Give us the true head to head down and dirty P!

 Enjoy the amp!

 E


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

They had some HD580's on Amazon a while back for $95 a pair, that was when Sennheiser first annouced that it's discontinuing the headphone and all the sellers panicked.

 Good 'ol times.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's an ebay seller who has new HD580's for $169, he seems to have the last stash of these. From all reports, the 580 and 600 are super close to one another. 

 I was impressed with the MkIII right out of the gate with my very old (1982) vintage K240's. They were the "sextett" version which still has a following to this day. In fact I sold them for $155 on eBay, having paid $109 as I recall back in 1982!

 I will be interested in Mr. Penchum's thoughts on the MkIII as well. I believe the only current LD not in his stable is the standard MkIV. Give us the true head to head down and dirty P!

 Enjoy the amp!

 E_

 

You bet! It won't be a comparative review, but it is supposed to be the "sweet spot" in the line-up, so that will be looked at heavily, which will involve the other models I have, all three Senn's and many sources. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 About the Senn's, my modded HD-580s sound close to the HD-600's, but fall short of having the same dynamic sound. Even at the reduced price, plus the cost of the mods, you are still only $40-50 away from new HD-600s. If a budget is a concern, then the HD-580 makes sense, because you can spread out the mod costs at your discretion. Otherwise, getting the HD-600's new does have a few advantages overall. IMHO, YMMV, the weather might change, etc.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks guys,

 The K240M's I have are from around 1988 or 87 I believe. I like the open design better than closed. The overall sound seems better to me with that type of design. Could just be personal preference. I used K140's for years before I bought the K240's. I think the K140's were 1981 vintage. I ended up giving them to my band's bass player when our band split in 84. He still has them today and likes them for recording.

 It's seems the best price for HD600's is around 255-269.00 US brand new. Used around 180 to 200 depending on condition. I much prefer "new" for the reason stated by "Penchum".

 I just got through chatting with David. Now that's customer service !!! He answered every question moments after sending inquiries. I like it.

 Penchum, after you recieve and review your MK III I'd be interested in reading your opinions on tube rolling for the MK III !

 Regards to all,

 Pricklely P.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's an ebay seller who has new HD580's for $169, he seems to have the last stash of these. From all reports, the 580 and 600 are super close to one another. 

 I was impressed with the MkIII right out of the gate with my very old (1982) vintage K240's. They were the "sextett" version which still has a following to this day. In fact I sold them for $155 on eBay, having paid $109 as I recall back in 1982!

 I will be interested in Mr. Penchum's thoughts on the MkIII as well. I believe the only current LD not in his stable is the standard MkIV. Give us the true head to head down and dirty P!

 Enjoy the amp!

 E_

 

I'd be interested in the details on the "sextett" version of the K240's ethebull. What's the diff between the 2 versions ?

 Regards,

 Pricklely P.


----------



## ethebull

They had six passive radiators for bass augmentation. They discontinued the sextett design in the early/mid eighties. 

 More than you'll ever want/need to know can be read here:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/wha...extett-276791/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/akg...stions-270770/

 "Fitz" is the resident AKG/Sextett guru


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks E,

 Wow, 6 passive radiators ? No wonder those are sought after


----------



## ilgello

Looking fwd to your great review Penchum.

 A feeling I had with the mk III is that I'd liked to have a bit more of juice with my Senn, especially on classic music...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looking fwd to your great review Penchum.

 A feeling I had with the mk III is that I'd liked to have a bit more of juice with my Senn, especially on classic music..._

 

This can be source dependent too. What source are you using and which tubes in the MKIII? Ow, and what "Gain" settings are you using on the MKIII?


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This can be source dependent too. What source are you using and which tubes in the MKIII? Ow, and what "Gain" settings are you using on the MKIII?




_

 

I didn't think about that, source is a beresford (knob at 4/5), tubes now I have the M8100 (but when I was testing it I was using the stock ones so I don't know if the situation improved with the mullard).

 Gain setting I tried the 300ohm and the middle setting (can't remember which one).

 Hopefully today I'll be able to test it a little bit more with the m8100.


----------



## Capunk

Is there any K701 user here? 
 What tubes configurations do you prefer for K701?


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Capunk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any K701 user here? 
 What tubes configurations do you prefer for K701?_

 

I've had my K701's for a few weeks now. What I said in my tube shoot-out using old Sextetts still holds true with the 701's. When the new phones were breaking in, I went back to the Mullards for a while, but their bit of added fuzz had me return to the Amperex. 

 More tubes are coming so this is by no means the last word!

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3727761-post76.html

 E


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't think about that, source is a beresford (knob at 4/5), tubes now I have the M8100 (but when I was testing it I was using the stock ones so I don't know if the situation improved with the mullard).

 Gain setting I tried the 300ohm and the middle setting (can't remember which one).

 Hopefully today I'll be able to test it a little bit more with the m8100._

 

Ok, that may be what's up. Check the "gain" setting and make sure you have it on the highest setting (10). I'm not sure that you'll need to run up the Beresford higher, but I guess after the gain check, that would be next.
 Let us know how this goes!!


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, that may be what's up. Check the "gain" setting and make sure you have it on the highest setting (10). I'm not sure that you'll need to run up the Beresford higher, but I guess after the gain check, that would be next.
 Let us know how this goes!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I went back to the 10 setting (since I don't think I'll try the grado again), but I think what I was mistaking is that I was using the variable line out of the beresford instead of the fixed one, now is much better. The classic compilations my father mastered me have an incredibly low volume but now at max knob I have a decent listening


----------



## YtseJamer

Hello,

 I'd like to know what would be the best choice between the Tung-Sol 403B or the Amperex 5654 for Prog-Metal with my DT880s ? (I currently have the stock tubes and the Mullard M8161.)

 Thanks


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 I'd like to know what would be the best choice between the Tung-Sol 403B or the Amperex 5654 for Prog-Metal with my DT880s ? (I currently have the stock tubes and the Mullard M8161.)

 Thanks_

 

I like the Tung-Sol 403B a LOT, actually. I just got a pair from ebay and burning them in as I type this, initial impression is that they're got a very 'solid' sound with lots of control and composure. Very happy with these.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like the Tung-Sol 403B a LOT, actually. I just got a pair from ebay and burning them in as I type this, initial impression is that they're got a very 'solid' sound with lots of control and composure. Very happy with these. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, my first choice was the Tung-Sol 403B 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers


----------



## dgbiker1

This might be a silly question, but does anyone know of any magic eye tubes that are compatible with the MKIII?


----------



## ethebull

Anybody here familiar with these? I'm NOT going to fork out two C-notes for them here, but if I "stumbled across a pair"... I be very curious if anyone has tried them in a LD of any level, or similar amp.

6H30P-DR Supertube


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody here familiar with these? I'm NOT going to fork out two C-notes for them here, but if I "stumbled across a pair"... I be very curious if anyone has tried them in a LD of any level, or similar amp.

6H30P-DR Supertube_

 

Man, those look serious! I'll get killed if I order a set!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The would have to make a big difference over the gold ones for me to be willing?


----------



## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like the Tung-Sol 403B a LOT, actually. I just got a pair from ebay and burning them in as I type this, initial impression is that they're got a very 'solid' sound with lots of control and composure. Very happy with these. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

x2!!! I also got a pair from ebay that I am burning in and these are excellent tubes!! They are the tubes with the National brand on them.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody here familiar with these? I'm NOT going to fork out two C-notes for them here, but if I "stumbled across a pair"... I be very curious if anyone has tried them in a LD of any level, or similar amp.

6H30P-DR Supertube_

 

Are those bad boys compatible with the 6N6 tubes in the MKIII?
 Along the same lines, I saw that the 6N6PI can be used as a substitute for E182CC and ECC-99. Does that also mean I could use ECC-99 and E182CC in the MKIII? Sorry if these questions are ridiculous, I know next to nothing about tubes. So many kinds!!!


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are those bad boys compatible with the 6N6 tubes in the MKIII?
 Along the same lines, I saw that the 6N6PI can be used as a substitute for E182CC and ECC-99. Does that also mean I could use ECC-99 and E182CC in the MKIII? Sorry if these questions are ridiculous, I know next to nothing about tubes. So many kinds!!!_

 

From the on-line MkIII reference manual:

 Power Tube-Rolling
 The higher quality 6H30EB used in the normal version of the Little Dot MK IV, and the 6H30PI used in the
 Little Dot MK IV SE are all compatible with the 6H6PI used in the Little Dot MK III. Hence, compatible tubes
 (and their equivalents) include:
 • 6N6 (i.e. MK II default power tube)
 • 6H6PI (i.e. MK III default power tube)
 • 6H30EB (i.e. MK IV default power tube)
 • 6H30PI (i.e. MK IV SE default power tube)
• 6H30P-DR
 Note: While you can use the 6H30EB/6H30PI/6H30P-DR tubes in the MK II and MK III, you cannot use the
 6N6/6H6PI power tubes in the Little Dot MK IV and Little Dot MK IV SE.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are those bad boys compatible with the 6N6 tubes in the MKIII?
 Along the same lines, I saw that the 6N6PI can be used as a substitute for E182CC and ECC-99. Does that also mean I could use ECC-99 and E182CC in the MKIII? Sorry if these questions are ridiculous, I know next to nothing about tubes. So many kinds!!!_

 

Also, to help clarify, you can't use the E182CC or 5687's with MKII,MKIII.
 The eBay listers are not correct and several of us have reminded them of this, but they do not change their listings.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, to help clarify, you can't use the E182CC or 5687's with MKII,MKIII.
 The eBay listers are not correct and several of us have reminded them of this, but they do not change their listings._

 

Correct, unless you make a custom pin redirecting adapter, or rewire the board, E182cc/5687's cannot be used.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2!!! I also got a pair from ebay that I am burning in and these are excellent tubes!! They are the tubes with the National brand on them._

 

Hey Roger! I have a set of the EF91 6CQ6's with the National brand on them. They sound wonderful! I'm going to keep them in mind, when searching for other tubes as well.


----------



## ethebull

Posted a new thread with a question. Someone here might know, others may be interested in the responses.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/tu...1/#post3849229


----------



## ethebull

If your favorite drivers are the stock GE's, stock up a pile right here:

55 - GE JAN 5654W 5654 Vacuum Tubes Green NOS Nice - eBay (item 150217199918 end time Feb-24-08 17:11:21 PST)


----------



## RogerB

Guys, I have a chance to purchase a matched pair of Mullard M8100's but they don't have the shield on them. Are they still good tubes???


----------



## ethebull

Not as nice as your Amperex (you knew that's my take though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## dgbiker1

Thanks for the clarification on power tubes penchum and ethebull. Now I can plunge further into debt


----------



## Caribou679

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been using these Russian NOS 6Zh1P-EV EF95 compatible driver tubes for about 150 hours now. I'll share what I know about them. All my impressions have been using the Little-Dot MKII tube amplifier:

 First, they have a unique design. There are three molded indentations running down the length of the outside diameter of the tubes. This suggests they were "secured" tight in whatever original use they had. This also suggests they are extremely rugged for that same original use. I wouldn't be surprised if they were made for military aircraft use.

 Second, they took less than 40 hours to mature. I'm not sure if this is due to their heavy duty construction, or close tolerances (higher quality) internally. My guess would be the higher quality.

 Third, they have become my favorite EF95 tubes, for all types of music. They have no noise, excellent control over all frequencies, present an amazing amount of dynamics and a sound stage that is more than pleasing. Using the best sources I have, these tubes really show their stuff, while maintaining some of that "tube" warmth we all expect.

 Forth, I would have to say these little wonders are directly competing with the better EF92 tubes. The frequency response is surprisingly flat, highs are extended and clear, and the lows are just fantastic! Plenty of clean punch, while showing the ability to reproduce those bass ranges where bass guitars and synthesizers like to play.

 Fifth, the cost is so low for this kind of performance, everyone should get a set before demand raises the prices. I have no idea if these tubes are stock piled, but they are showing up more frequently on eBay. For the MKII, these little gems have become my new standard of performance for EF95 tubes. I hope everyone who has a MKII or MKIII, will acquire a set. They are just too nice to pass on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi Penchum!
 Just a short question for a short answer: I have received these tube today and just want to know if I need to install jumpers with these on the LD MKIII.

 Thanks

 regards,


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Caribou679* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Penchum!
 Just a short question for a short answer: I have received these tube today and just want to know if I need to install jumpers with these on the LD MKIII.

 Thanks

 regards,_

 

They are EF95 types - no jumpers.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, my first choice was the Tung-Sol 403B 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers_

 

Sorry bout that pfillion, that must have been you I was bidding against for those TS-403b's on Yen's site. I'm sure he has more of them. Yep I won the pair. Bit pricey but I've paid more (upscale audio...Kevin charges a lot for Amperex orange label 7308's).

 I also picked up a set of Sylvania mil spec 5654's from Yen as well. They were made in 1953. I'll bet these are a surprise.

 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry bout that pfillion, that must have been you I was bidding against for those TS-403b's on Yen's site. I'm sure he has more of them. Yep I won the pair. Bit pricey but I've paid more (upscale audio...Kevin charges a lot for Amperex orange label 7308's).

 I also picked up a set of Sylvania mil spec 5654's from Yen as well. They were made in 1953. I'll bet these are a surprise.

 Regards,

 Peete._

 

haha, no problem my friend


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Caribou679* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Penchum!
 Just a short question for a short answer: I have received these tube today and just want to know if I need to install jumpers with these on the LD MKIII.

 Thanks

 regards,_

 

Damm, curiosity just took my wallet for a ride. Got a quad set on the way!!


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damm, curiosity just took my wallet for a ride. Got a quad set on the way!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I did BIN on Feb. 11. Still haven't received them. Hoping they'll come this week - I'm TIRED OF WAITING!

 They do look like really well made tubes in the pictures.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Caribou679* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Penchum!
 Just a short question for a short answer: I have received these tube today and just want to know if I need to install jumpers with these on the LD MKIII.

 Thanks

 regards,_

 

Yes indeed, no jumpers. EF95 compatibles.


----------



## Penchum

My MK-III arrived this morning! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Burn in and data gathering has already started. What a beautiful amp! Sleek, slim and powerful! I just love it!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My MK-III arrived this morning! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Burn in and data gathering has already started. What a beautiful amp! Sleek, slim and powerful! I just love it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

When did you place your order Penchum ? My MkIII has just been released by customs in Vancouver ( that's 2500 miles from me )today. I'm quite nervous about Canaduh Post handling this shipment knowing how they treat things.

 Ran across these Head phones and wondered if you had heard them before (Denon AH-D2000 for 270.00 )...

 I look forward to your review of the MK III !!!! 

 Regards,

 Peete.

 PS...I'm jealous damn it


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When did you place your order Penchum ? My MkIII has just been released by customs in Vancouver ( that's 2500 miles from me )today. I'm quite nervous about Canaduh Post handling this shipment knowing how they treat things.

 Ran across these Head phones and wondered if you had heard them before (Denon AH-D2000 for 270.00 )...

 I look forward to your review of the MK III !!!! 

 Regards,

 Peete.

 PS...I'm jealous damn it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Mine shipped in China on the 21st (last Wednesday) and arrived today. That is 6 days total with a weekend in there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That EMS shipping is fast!
 I haven't heard the Denon's before, but there are some Denon fans here. Ask directly about them in the headphone forum, and I bet you'll get some good answers. Have a good one!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks Penchum !!! Enjoy the MK III...

 Looks like mine should show up either Wed or Thurs afternoon. Bad weather moving in here though.....sigh more shovelling !


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My MK-III arrived this morning! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Burn in and data gathering has already started. What a beautiful amp! Sleek, slim and powerful! I just love it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ha, the man got another toy. Hope its a keeper. After all your other reviews, we here on this thread waiting on the edge of our seats. The MK3 should hold its own. But would really like to know how a rolled MK3 stands against it big brothers MKIV & MIV Se.


----------



## liamlw

hey guys, where can i buy these? i remember reading that 2 sellers on ebay are 'official' by little dot. the problem is i cant seem to find the little dot website, or a mk3 on ebay?


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *liamlw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys, where can i buy these? i remember reading that 2 sellers on ebay are 'official' by little dot. the problem is i cant seem to find the little dot website, or a mk3 on ebay?_

 

They call it Little Tube.
Little-Tube

 Since you are in OZ as well try COEM Audio Australia - High quality HI-FI speakers, cd players, solid state and tube amplifiers


----------



## liamlw

thank you. i tried so much in google hehe. i kno about COEM. I'm not sure which way to go yet.


----------



## ethebull

Dedicated followers of this thread should find this review by The Little Dot man his-self , the honorable D.M. Penchum, well worth reading. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...9/#post3870351

 OK, sorry to toot my own horn too. Just trying to have a little fun here after all...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi guys,

 Just got my MK III.......6 days...from HK to my front door. I give Dave from LD an A++++ excellent transaction......I wish N American service was this good from some e-tailers I can think of.....back to the program..

 Very nice little amp looks wise. No impressions on sound as I haven't even warmed her up yet. She came in a thick cardboard box cradled by a custom high density foam insert which kept the amp from the many knocks and dents that were apparent on the poor old cardboard box. Not a scratch on the LD. A testament to the effectiveness of the foam protection. The amp came with a set of RCA-RCA cables (with 3 jumpers enclosed) and an English manual. One amusing aspect of the Chinese to English translation...pg 1 of manual..."Safe use of notes" ....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess Amy Winehouse is out as playback material (not a safe use of notes....particularly cminor and gmaj ) lol. Just kidding people.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just wanted to let everyone know it's here ...Yay !!

 I haven't bought the HD600's yet. So my AKG's will have to do for now.

 Still waiting on NOS tubes I bought from Yen.

 Just flicked the power button...all tubes lit...now to wait 15 minutes for warm up. Man it's freezin' out today (-28 C this morning). Sheesh, I've had enough of winter already.....

 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 Just got my MK III.......6 days...from HK to my front door. I give Dave from LD an A++++ excellent transaction......I wish N American service was this good from some e-tailers I can think of.....back to the program..

 Very nice little amp looks wise. No impressions on sound as I haven't even warmed her up yet. She came in a thick cardboard box cradled by a custom high density foam insert which kept the amp from the many knocks and dents that were apparent on the poor old cardboard box. Not a scratch on the LD. A testament to the effectiveness of the foam protection. The amp came with a set of RCA-RCA cables (with 3 jumpers enclosed) and an English manual. One amusing aspect of the Chinese to English translation...pg 1 of manual..."Safe use of notes" ....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess Amy Winehouse is out as playback material (not a safe use of notes....particularly cminor and gmaj ) lol. Just kidding people.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just wanted to let everyone know it's here ...Yay !!

 I haven't bought the HD600's yet. So my AKG's will have to do for now.

 Still waiting on NOS tubes I bought from Yen.

 Just flicked the power button...all tubes lit...now to wait 15 minutes for warm up. Man it's freezin' out today (-28 C this morning). Sheesh, I've had enough of winter already.....

 Regards,

 Peete._

 

Just rack up as much Hrs with the stock tubes so you will get a better idea what the NOS ones will do once they get to you. Really no point slapping them in without a reference point. 

 On a side note: USE THE MK3 AS A HEATER IN THE MEAN TIME-RUB YOU HANDS OVER IT!!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just rack up as much Hrs with the stock tubes so you will get a better idea what the NOS ones will do once they get to you. Really no point slapping them in without a reference point. 

 On a side note: USE THE MK3 AS A HEATER IN THE MEAN TIME-RUB YOU HANDS OVER IT!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So far have about 18 hrs on it, the stock tubes aren't to bad but I know old glass is where it's at.

 I doubt the amp will even get hot when it's - 28 C out, although the Russian tubes will think it's spring 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## RogerB

I received my Mullard M8100's from Yen today and have had them in for about 10 hours so far. Fabulous tube! It's everything you guys have said and more!

 Should be receiving the Russian tubes Penchum was raving about any day now. Anxious to hear those. 

 Man o' man........I love tube rolling!!!!


----------



## ethebull

I received my package of 6ZH1P-EV Russian EF95 type driver tubes yesterday. With less than 24 hours on them thus far, they are proving to be exceptional performers. Alot like my favorite Amperex, but with added umph!
 Strong and dynamic sound, clean, detailed but not harsh, vivid, great bass impact and depth. These are very special drivers as Penchum promised. (and CHEAP!)

 I’m kinda swimming in tubes to roll right now and a few more are on the way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I’ll do a big shoot out on a bunch of them after they are all well seasoned (that might take a while!) but in the short term I’ll post a quick impression or two.

 Since I’ve been swapping out tubes on a frequent basis lately, I noticed something that might have significance. As you know, when you turn off an amplifier with the source still playing, the amp continues to output sound for several seconds. Well, I've noticed some tubes stay pretty clean in the decaying volume as the caps discharge while others start to sound dirty and distorted as their output fades out. The clean ones have that quality in normal use and the dirtier fading tubes seem to exhibit a touch of grunge when operating. Try this in your rig and see if this correlates to how your tubes perform - am I on to something with this?


----------



## ethebull

Are you looking for a tubier tube with oceans of depth and a campfire's worth of warmth?

 Does your HiFi headphone system lack depth and spaciousness? Were you disappointed that your Wundercannons combined with Little dot’s Tubos MkX Ultimate amplifier didn’t provide the hall ambiance you seek? 

 Try our latest driver tube of the day. MWT is proud to introduce their XO special W77 ambiance enhancing ubertube. 

 Enjoy!

 They actually work quite well with old rock lacking studio reverb. Also quite nice with close mic'd bright classical recordings. Not an every day tube fer sure, but good fun as a specialty tube.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you looking for a tubier tube with oceans of depth and a campfire's worth of warmth?

 Does your HiFi headphone system lack depth and spaciousness? Were you disappointed that your Wundercannons combined with Little dot’s Tubos MkX Ultimate amplifier didn’t provide the hall ambiance you seek? 

 Try our latest driver tube of the day. MWT is proud to introduce their XO special W77 ambiance enhancing ubertube. 

 Enjoy!

 They actually work quite well with old rock lacking studio reverb. Also quite nice with close mic'd bright classical recordings. Not an every day tube fer sure, but good fun as a specialty tube._

 

They are excellent for Pink Floyd type music too.


----------



## ilgello

Guys, I've just tried some different ef91 and they all sound terrible at high volumes (very distorted).

 Jumpers are on, am I the only one getting this ?


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys, I've just tried some different ef91 and they all sound terrible at high volumes (very distorted).

 Jumpers are on, am I the only one getting this ?_

 

Interesting, I have just one pair of EF91's (International). They sound distorted at modest and higher levels. I just thought I got a bad pair...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys, I've just tried some different ef91 and they all sound terrible at high volumes (very distorted).

 Jumpers are on, am I the only one getting this ?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting, I have just one pair of EF91's (International). They sound distorted at modest and higher levels. I just thought I got a bad pair..._

 

A bad tube will sound like Poo. ilgello, what amp and how much time are on the EF91's?? They need at least 45hrs to firm up. Thanks!


----------



## webghost

i´ve put some Mullard EF91 (M????) in my MKIII and had the same very bad sound at (not very high) volume. At first i thought it is a bad pair, but if some of you had the same problems?!


----------



## ethebull

I emailed David at LD. I'm sure he'll look into it. 

 So the question is, has anyone here who owns a MKIII had any success with EF91 tubes?


----------



## ilgello

I thought were the tubes too and I left a negative feedback to the seller!

 Did you try different gain settings guys ?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought were the tubes too and I left a negative feedback to the seller!

 Did you try different gain settings guys ?_

 

Inorder for us to help, we need to know how many hours are on the tubes and what headphones are being used. Can you help us? Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

I asked DavidZ at Little-Dot, why we can use the 6H6N power tubes in the MKII & MKIII, but not the MKIVse. Here is his response:

 "Hey Dave,

 The 6H6n and 6H30 tubes are similar, but different enough so that the 6H6n are not really stable in the MK IV SE's slightly more optimized and precise circuit. 

 Best Regards,
 David"

 On the flip side of this issue, we can use the 6H30EB, 6H30Pi and 6H30DR, in the MKIVse, MKIII and MKII.

 Now if someone would buy me a pair of DR's, I'd be in heaven.


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Inorder for us to help, we need to know how many hours are on the tubes and what headphones are being used. Can you help us? Thanks!_

 

The 4 tubes I tried weren't NOS, 2 were Mullard and 2 Siemens.

 Tried with my hd600 and if I remember well with the 325i.

 Gain for sure the 10x, not sure if also with the 5x.

 Jumper on.

 Think is an amp issue as we all are experiencing the same behaviour?


----------



## ethebull

I just reinstalled my International EF91's (with jumpers, gain 5). 

 I'm not sure how much burn in time I've logged. They sounded so bad - shockingly so at first, that I feared damaging something in my rig. I let them run several hours, then recleaned the pins, tested again and the distortion was still strong. Today I find they've gotten alot better but no where near right. At very low volume there's minimal fuzz, at medium volume you'll hear distortion during bass heavy passages, at high volume the distortion is pervasive. 

 So rather than subjecting my K701's to any potential abuse, I stuck some Ipod buds in the amp and will let them run. 

 We may well be jumping the gun on blasting any and all EF91's... OTOH, no other tube variety I've tried has exhibited anything close to this kind of break-in issue. Seems like the amp / EF91 combo is - less friendly (?) My MkIII sure wasn't a happy camper in the early going. 

 More on this as things develope.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 4 tubes I tried weren't NOS, 2 were Mullard and 2 Siemens.

 Tried with my hd600 and if I remember well with the 325i.

 Gain for sure the 10x, not sure if also with the 5x.

 Jumper on.

 Think is an amp issue as we all are experiencing the same behaviour?_

 

When you say the weren't NOS, were they used? Here is why I ask. On both my MKII and MKIII, the EF91 Mullards I have sounded really bad for the first 45hrs, then the treble distortion sound was gone. That treble distortion sound only happened when I cranked it up pretty good, so I just burned them in at a lower volume. Come to think of it, I had gain set on both units set to 10. Now I wish I had tried 5, to see if that made it more or less apparent.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought were the tubes too and I left a negative feedback to the seller!

 Did you try different gain settings guys ?_

 

Who did you buy the tubes from?


----------



## YtseJamer

Hello,

 I'd like to know which one is better between the Amperex NOS 5654 and the Tung-Sol 403B for prog rock music ? Especially with the Grado RS-1 and the HD600.

 Thanks


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 I'd like to know which one is better between the Amperex NOS 5654 and the Tung-Sol 403B for prog rock music ? Especially with the Grado RS-1 and the HD600.

 Thanks_

 

They're both very good tubes, the Amperex 5654 has a more up-front sound compared to the Tung-Sol 403B so it's probably a very exciting match with your RS-1 for prog rock. I prefer the Tung-Sol for more classical and chamber music.


----------



## webghost

i´ve tested my Mullard EF91 (NOS) at div. gain settings - bad sound - no change.
 In my MKIII are 6H30Pi Gold (like MKIVse) working. (I installed
 an switchable Cathode Resistor).
 For listening i use an AKG K701.

 I will burn in the EF91 and than test them again.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 I'd like to know which one is better between the Amperex NOS 5654 and the Tung-Sol 403B for prog rock music ? Especially with the Grado RS-1 and the HD600.

 Thanks_

 

pfillion, as well as any others who seek a specific tube reccommendation,

 Differences in tube sound signatures are subjective, and perceived quality differences vary form individual to individual. What "locks in" to your ear/brain won't neccessarily jive with what I or the next guy might like. Your best bet is to read a bunch of the post here and elsewhere. Get a good sense of what seems like a fit to your tastes and set-up. Then buy a few pairs of tubes. After listening and coming to your own conclusions, you can go back and revisit other listeners opinions and have a much better understanding of the playing field. Keep in mind that differences in driver tubes are way more subtle than differences in headphones. The good news is there are many great sounding tubes that outperform the stock drivers. Start with a pair or two that seem promising - and have some fun!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webghost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i´ve tested my Mullard EF91 (NOS) at div. gain settings - bad sound - no change.
 In my MKIII are 6H30Pi Gold (like MKIVse) working. (I installed
 an switchable Cathode Resistor).
 For listening i use an AKG K701.

 I will burn in the EF91 and than test them again._

 

How many hours do you have on your EF91's??
 Thanks!


----------



## webghost

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How many hours do you have on your EF91's??
 Thanks!_

 

hi,

 only 2-3hrs, they sound defective so i put them out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i´ll burn them in and report

 greets


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How many hours do you have on your EF91's??
 Thanks!_

 

BTW mine where used.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webghost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi,

 only 2-3hrs, they sound defective so i put them out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i´ll burn them in and report

 greets_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW mine where used._

 

Thanks guys! Keep me posted if something pops up that might help figure this out.


----------



## dgbiker1

I just got my telefunken EF91s today and I have the same distortion problem, but I'm wondering if it might be the power circuit and not the driver tubes. I think the EF91s draw a lot more current than the EF95s, and I have to crank up the volume (70%) on my MKIII w/ the K701 to get decent volume. I'm wondering if it is just causing the power tubes (or some other part of the power circuitry) to saturate. They sound amazing with acoustic music, but forget about anything with some oomph.


----------



## Penchum

Another thought. All of you guys who say you have this problem, seem to be using the 701's, correct?? That really makes me scratch my anatomy! Can someone describe the distortion in moderate detail for me, like what frequencies are involved and how loud it is compared to the source signal, and so on??? Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

For those burning in their EF91's , please reduce the volume to low levels where the distortion is not present, just to be safe. I think it is a good idea to do so. Thanks!


----------



## ethebull

The distortion is still there when I listen through the iPod ear buds. (easy to drive as anything I'd guess)

 The distortion sort of attaches itself to the midrange but is driven by the bass notes. It sounds like when an FM station is poorly tuned and breaks up.


----------



## ilgello

Is like a very bad clipping/distortion on a bass-mid level.

 Poltergeist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And yes with all my headphones.

 bad bad bad!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Could it be transformer saturation distortion ? I posted a new thread about the viability of a variac to drop line voltage to the Mk III to it's rated spec of 110V and if anyone had done this yet ?

 Am I crazy or does this idea have some merit ?

 Peete.


----------



## dgbiker1

I second ethebull's fm radio out of tune description, that's exactly what I thought when I heard it.
 I must say, at slightly quiet levels these tubes sound amazing though. Now if I can just find an EF92/95 tube with the same signature but louder.... tung sol 403b, amperex 5654 or ge 5* maybe?
 EDIT: Woo-hoo, got a 2nd chance offer from Yen on some Tung-Sol 403B's! Now on to some EF92s.....


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could it be transformer saturation distortion ? I posted a new thread about the viability of a variac to drop line voltage to the Mk III to it's rated spec of 110V and if anyone had done this yet ?

 Am I crazy or does this idea have some merit ?

 Peete._

 

Based on my crude knowledge of transformers, here's my 2 cents:

 Transformer saturation is a bit strange (IMO), since you're saturating the magnetic flux of the core and not hitting a wall like you would with an IC- a similar concept I guess, but I always got confused with magnetics so it's all black magic to me. Assuming the transformer geometry is constant, the only ways you can saturate the core are to increase the input voltage (mains in this case) too high, operate at high frequency, use an abnormally shaped wave (probably a frequency issue if you look at the FFT content of the wave), or apply a DC offset. All of these parameters concern the primary side of the transformer, not the secondary load.

 Since we aren't changing any of those parameters, I don't think we're saturating the transformer core in this case. The mains will be 120VAC, 60Hz sine waves with 0VDC offset, ideally, regardless of what driver tubes are on the secondary side of the transformer. If we were saturating the transformer, I think we would hear the saturation with all driver tubes at all volume levels. I'm in the same boat as you with thinking it's some part of the power circuit that's saturating, but I think it might be the power tubes or maybe the power capacitors (a bit doubtful considering their size).

 I wouldn't worry about stepping down from 120VAC to 110VAC, and you'll often see parts spec'd as 110/120V. Electronics should be designed to take a reasonably wide range of error (US carriers range from ~114-126VAC IIRC). I think 110 is a middle ground for relatively low voltage countries, many are at 110, some are at 120, Japan is at 100. I had a friend who used his 120V laptop on 100V 50Hz Japanese power with no trouble. Now if you try to plug your 110/120V into 220/240V lines... have fun with that


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I'm in the same boat as you with thinking it's some part of the power circuit that's saturating, but I think it might be the power tubes or maybe the power capacitors (a bit doubtful considering their size)._

 


 Using my adapters, I've tried my International EF91's paired with Tung Sol 5687's, GE 5* 5687's, Arcturus 7044's, and with the stock 6H6n power tubes (no adapters). The sound is a touch cleaner with the five stars but that is their nature in general. Distortion still kicks in strong as bass and volume rise in each and every combination.

 Not that this observation offers much insight, as all the power tubes are electrical equivalents.


----------



## Olev

Can anyone comment these:
NOS! EF95, 6F32, 6AK7, 6ZH1P RUSSIAN TUBES. QTY=5 - eBay (item 180221143063 end time Mar-11-08 21:00:00 PDT)

 Russian Military grade 6ZH1P, but not 6ZH1P-EV that ethebull tried and found to be really good ones. Found this spec sheet ''GSTube.com''. Tubes, sockets etc. Parameters and characteristics 6J1n-EB But seems strange that military grade (the first column) is not as good as -EV? Can anyone comment, I don't know what to make of the numbers (what means better what worse).


----------



## ethebull

Not sure what to tell you but it looks like the EP is even better still! (if I'm correct in viewing the data as tighter specs)

 This listing offers 50 pc @ $52 including shipping. - 10 times as many for double the price (EB type, which is how mine are marked) Is EB the same as EV??? this is all very confusing this world of tube designations mixed with Russian script oddities...

50 pcs 6AK5W / 5654. HF Pentode New - eBay (item 150220772262 end time Mar-06-08 09:02:04 PST)

 BTW, Penchum "discovered these"


----------



## Olev

Russian -EB is english -EV. Russian -EP is english -ER. So the specs say that the one with no end is the worst? Even when the first one is special military grade and not the standard.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

^ the sound quality of Russian tubes correlates more with which factory the tubes were made in than with tube designations. You can get two tubes designated the same but one sounds much worse than the other because it was made in a poor factory.


----------



## ethebull

Yes, it would seem so. I know that the best 6H30 series Russian tubes end with -DR. DoA's comment is also very much in play (important)

 The "military grade" basically applies to any Russian tube because thats about all the Russians made or used them for. Guess it sounds impressive in a marketing sense at this point.


----------



## Penchum

Unless someone wants to take an additional risk, I'd recommend sticking with the 6ZH1P-EV. They have been verified to work great by like 6 people now. In the pictures, the "EV" has 3 evenly spaced molded slots in the glass tube, running from the top shoulder to the bottom. If someone can't find any, let me know and I'll get you the eBay seller's ID I bought mine from. Have a good one!


----------



## LordofDoom

Hey guys, I just bought the Little Dot MK III (was saving for a MK II, but I managed to come up with the extra $50 and said why not). Any quick tips? I'm thinking about tube rolling when I get more money in if I feel if its necessary, but I'm going to play with the idea, it sounds fun


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I emailed David at LD. I'm sure he'll look into it. 

 So the question is, has anyone here who owns a MKIII had any success with EF91 tubes?_

 

Eth Did u get a response on this ?


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Using my adapters, I've tried my International EF91's paired with Tung Sol 5687's, GE 5* 5687's, Arcturus 7044's, and with the stock 6H6n power tubes (no adapters). The sound is a touch cleaner with the five stars but that is their nature in general. Distortion still kicks in strong as bass and volume rise in each and every combination.

 Not that this observation offers much insight, as all the power tubes are electrical equivalents._

 

Thanks for the extra info. Would you happen to know the voltage and current ratings for the power tubes and the ef91s off the top of your head? I think EF91 is 300mA, 5V?
 Since those power tubes were all equivalents, do they have the same power ratings? If possible I'd be curious to hear what happens when you put EF91s into a LD 2++ (if you can) since it has higher rated power tubes.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks for the insight dgbiker1. It's was a long shot on the tranny distortion theory.

 I wonder if the EF91 really isn't compatible with the MK III design ? David and Sword would know so maybe I should forget about that train of thought. 

 E does your MKIII run really hot ? I wonder if a cap hasn't gone bad due to heat.I can't imagine which one since there are only 6 caps in the signal chain and there all well spaced and away from the tube sockets. The 3 large PS caps are rated to handle far worse conditions than what they are exposed to, so back to square one. Try dropping the gain from 10x to 5x. It could be the added gain from the EF91 is causing an overload ? Guessing at this point.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are any EF92's exhibiting this behavior ?


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Eth Did u get a response on this ?_

 

Yes and no. He responded, yes, but just with some questions. It appears they need to investigate the situation themselves. 

 I'd certainly advise anyone looking to buy some drivers to avoid any EF91's of any ilk until they've got this nailed down.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if the EF91 really isn't compatible with the MK III design ? David and Sword would know so maybe I should forget about that train of thought. 

 E does your MKIII run really hot ?_

 

Not any more than it ever did.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if a cap hasn't gone bad due to heat._

 

Hard to imagine that is the case. The amp works completely fine still with five different varieties of EF95's and three types of EF92's.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Try dropping the gain from 10x to 5x. It could be the added gain from the EF91 is causing an overload ? Guessing at this point.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are any EF92's exhibiting this behavior ?_

 


 I'm running mine at gain 5. I've tried the eight different drivers outside of the 91's with no issues.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LordofDoom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I just bought the Little Dot MK III (was saving for a MK II, but I managed to come up with the extra $50 and said why not). Any quick tips? I'm thinking about tube rolling when I get more money in if I feel if its necessary, but I'm going to play with the idea, it sounds fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Your going to be impressed with the amp. I know I am. I've had mine a week now and really enjoy it (stock tubes are pretty darn good). Make sure you set the gain switches to match your cans impedance. 

 Let it burn in at a lower volume (9 o'clock) for 48-72 hrs. I shut mine off every night, just personal preference. 

 Make sure it has lots of ventilation...it runs a little hot. A good NOS tube to start with is RCA black plate 6AK5/5654/EF95,Another is Tung-Sol 403b, Sylvania 5654.....best to get matched mil-spec tubes from a reputable dealer.

 The power tubes are a rare Russian design and the MK III only takes 6N6PI/6H6PI. If the tube is 6H6P/6N6P then it's incompatible.Don't make that mistake. 

 Here's a link to a dealer that everyone here at Head-Fi (with a LD amp)trusts

eBay Canada Seller: yen1233: Home Audio, Consumer Electronics on eBay.ca at low prices

 That should get you started in the right direction,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LordofDoom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I just bought the Little Dot MK III (was saving for a MK II, but I managed to come up with the extra $50 and said why not). Any quick tips? I'm thinking about tube rolling when I get more money in if I feel if its necessary, but I'm going to play with the idea, it sounds fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Welcome to the LD family, LordofDoom! The best tip I can think of is to begin burning that baby in & start enjoying its sound....that's what it's all about & I don't believe you can go wrong with your new MK III. You'll enjoy the tube rolling but give your stocks a while of burning in 1st, so then you'll be able to hear the difference once you get some Mullard 8161's or Amperex 5654's or.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !


----------



## LordofDoom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the LD family, LordofDoom! The best tip I can think of is to begin burning that baby in & start enjoying its sound....that's what it's all about & I don't believe you can go wrong with your new MK III. You'll enjoy the tube rolling but give your stocks a while of burning in 1st, so then you'll be able to hear the difference once you get some Mullard 8161's or Amperex 5654's or.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !_

 

Sure thing, will do. And now we wait for it to arrive XD


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Man that's a bummer ...on the bright side it works fine with the other types of drivers. So far I have only ordered EF95 types from Yen and those tubes that you and Pench have (6Zh1P-EV).

 Hopefully the guys at Little-Tube will have an answer for this soon.

 Time to slap in a set of your fav EF95's E.

 Regards,

 Peete.

 PS...Should have all my parts in by the end of next week to make a set of "Bulldapters" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I have any questions outside of the FAQ on the adapter thread, can I PM you about it E ?


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man that's a bummer ...on the bright side it works fine with the other types of drivers._

 

Just to clear the air a bit. I am not bummed about my LD MkIII. I have one pair of EF91's that aren't working - not a big deal. I just get a kick out of figuring sh!t out, and/or helping others figure sh!t out.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far I have only ordered EF95 types from Yen and those tubes that you and Pench have (6Zh1P-EV).

 Hopefully the guys at Little-Tube will have an answer for this soon.

 Time to slap in a set of your fav EF95's E._

 

Already there my friend. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS...Should have all my parts in by the end of next week to make a set of "Bulldapters" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If I have any questions outside of the FAQ on the adapter thread, can I PM you about it E ?_

 

Sure, any time.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

What I meant by that was... what a bummer we can't find an easy answer as to why those tubes won't function correctly. Not that it's a bummer to have a Mk III. 

 The way I worded my response could have been better. My mistake E. Sorry about that.

 Trust me I'll have one or two dumb questions for you when I build the Bulldapters.....


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I meant by that was... what a bummer we can't find an easy answer as to why those tubes won't function correctly._

 

*Introducing the Bulldapter MKII - EF91-fixerator!!! * 

 (just kidding)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Introducing the Bulldapter MKII - EF91-fixerator!!! * 

 (just kidding)_

 

E,

 I just made a purchase online. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Make a guess!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LordofDoom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I just bought the Little Dot MK III (was saving for a MK II, but I managed to come up with the extra $50 and said why not). Any quick tips? I'm thinking about tube rolling when I get more money in if I feel if its necessary, but I'm going to play with the idea, it sounds fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOD, Ya did good! I'm reviewing the MKIII right now (it takes time) and it sure is nice! Let us know when it arrives, un-boxing is always an exciting time!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the extra info. Would you happen to know the voltage and current ratings for the power tubes and the ef91s off the top of your head? I think EF91 is 300mA, 5V?
 Since those power tubes were all equivalents, do they have the same power ratings? If possible I'd be curious to hear what happens when you put EF91s into a LD 2++ (if you can) since it has higher rated power tubes._

 

I'm not sure of the exact voltage (I'll have to look it up later), but I do know that the LDII++ will run it cleanly, but it draws too much and the LDII++ will overheat, resulting in component failures. Thanks to DOA for reminding me of this small but large impacting fact. Absolutely NOT recommended for the LDII++.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LordofDoom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I just bought the Little Dot MK III (was saving for a MK II, but I managed to come up with the extra $50 and said why not). Any quick tips? I'm thinking about tube rolling when I get more money in if I feel if its necessary, but I'm going to play with the idea, it sounds fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your going to be impressed with the amp. I know I am. I've had mine a week now and really enjoy it (stock tubes are pretty darn good). Make sure you set the gain switches to match your cans impedance. 

 Let it burn in at a lower volume (9 o'clock) for 48-72 hrs. I shut mine off every night, just personal preference. 

 Make sure it has lots of ventilation...it runs a little hot. A good NOS tube to start with is RCA black plate 6AK5/5654/EF95,Another is Tung-Sol 403b, Sylvania 5654.....best to get matched mil-spec tubes from a reputable dealer.

 The power tubes are a rare Russian design and the MK III only takes 6N6PI/6H6PI. If the tube is 6H6P/6N6P then it's incompatible.Don't make that mistake. 

 Here's a link to a dealer that everyone here at Head-Fi (with a LD amp)trusts

eBay Canada Seller: yen1233: Home Audio, Consumer Electronics on eBay.ca at low prices

 That should get you started in the right direction,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete._

 

I wanted to clarify the power tube rolling info quoted above. This information is directly out of the MKIII owners manual on-line:

 Power Tube-Rolling
 The higher quality 6H30EB used in the normal version of the Little Dot MK IV, and the 6H30PI used in the
 Little Dot MK IV SE are all compatible with the 6H6PI used in the Little Dot MK III. Hence, compatible tubes
 (and their equivalents) include:
 • 6N6 (i.e. MK II default power tube)
 • 6H6PI (i.e. MK III default power tube)
 • 6H30EB (i.e. MK IV default power tube)
 • 6H30PI (i.e. MK IV SE default power tube)
 • 6H30P-DR
 Note: While you can use the 6H30EB/6H30PI/6H30P-DR tubes in the MK II and MK III, you cannot use the
 6N6/6H6PI power tubes in the Little Dot MK IV and Little Dot MK IV SE.

 So, the only restriction is on the MKIV + MKIVse, which can't use the 6H6N tubes.

 The MKII and MKIII can use ANY of the tubes listed. 6N6 is the Chinese equivelent to 6H6N. So, yes, the MKIII can use the 6H6N. It just seems pointless because it came with the 6H6NPI, which is better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let me know if I confused anyone.


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.The power tubes are a rare Russian design and the MK III only takes 6N6PI/6H6PI. If the tube is 6H6P/6N6P then it's incompatible.Don't make that mistake. 
_

 

The Mk3 can run these. I use them myself. But the stock Russian "PI" is my chosen preference. I also have a set of 6H30PI too which runs very well on this extraordinary amp! And if I can stop a million other things. I'll finish my adaptors to run 5687 power tubes aswell.Ahh the choices
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The MKII and MKIII can use ANY of the tubes listed. 6N6 is the Chinese equivelent to 6H6N. So, yes, the MKIII can use the 6H6N. It just seems pointless because it came with the 6H6NPI, which is better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let me know if I confused anyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Your right on the money as always


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Mk3 can run these. I use them myself. But the stock Russian "PI" is my chosen preference. I also have a set of 6H30PI too which runs very well on this extraordinary amp! And if I can stop a million other things. I'll finish my adaptors to run 5687 power tubes aswell.Ahh the choices
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Your right on the money as always
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Roger that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 An "untested" alternate theory, would be to just plunk down for a pair of matched 6H30PI-DR's, instead of adapting 5687 and spending an equivalent amount on 8 or so different sets. It would lack variety, but would be less hassle and "should" be a better power tube. Heavy emphasis on the "untested" and "should" parts! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm always looking at alternatives, and this is one that "may" pan out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I do get all "jittery" about the cost, but I know for a fact that I have spent more than that on 5687's in the past. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That whole 5687 family is chuck full of nice sounding tubes! It's almost addictive! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There should be "Tube" AA meetings!


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your going to be impressed with the amp. I know I am. I've had mine a week now and really enjoy it (stock tubes are pretty darn good). Make sure you set the gain switches to match your cans impedance. 

 Make sure it has lots of ventilation...it runs a little hot. A good NOS tube to start with is RCA black plate 6AK5/5654/EF95,Another is Tung-Sol 403b, Sylvania 5654.....best to get matched mil-spec tubes from a reputable dealer.

 The power tubes are a rare Russian design and the MK III only takes 6N6PI/6H6PI. If the tube is 6H6P/6N6P then it's incompatible.Don't make that mistake. 

 Here's a link to a dealer that everyone here at Head-Fi (with a LD amp)trusts

eBay Canada Seller: yen1233: Home Audio, Consumer Electronics on eBay.ca at low prices

 That should get you started in the right direction,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete._

 

I believe the 6H6P and 6N6Pi are actually the same tubes so they should work. The E182CC in fact have the same pin-out as the 5687 and like the 5687 it does not work in non-SE amps.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your going to be impressed with the amp. I know I am. I've had mine a week now and really enjoy it (stock tubes are pretty darn good). Make sure you set the gain switches to match your cans impedance. 

 Make sure it has lots of ventilation...it runs a little hot. A good NOS tube to start with is RCA black plate 6AK5/5654/EF95,Another is Tung-Sol 403b, Sylvania 5654.....best to get matched mil-spec tubes from a reputable dealer.

 The power tubes are a rare Russian design and the MK III only takes 6N6PI/6H6PI. If the tube is 6H6P/6N6P then it's incompatible.Don't make that mistake. 

 Here's a link to a dealer that everyone here at Head-Fi (with a LD amp)trusts

eBay Canada Seller: yen1233: Home Audio, Consumer Electronics on eBay.ca at low prices

 That should get you started in the right direction,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete._

 

I believe the 6H6P and 6N6Pi are actually the same tubes so they should work. The E182CC in fact have the same pin-out as the 5687 and like the 5687 it does not work in non-SE amps.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks DOA,

 Apparently my confusion continues 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_E,

 I just made a purchase online. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Make a guess!!_

 

- 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 DR's ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

6H30 "s ?


----------



## ethebull

DavidZheZhe
 Posted 2008-03-07 6:19 AM (#985) 
 Subject: EF91 Tube Compatibility Update 

 Online


 Regular

 Posts: 97


 (75.185.21.50) We've heard reports that users have experienced distortion at higher listening volumes with the EF91 tube. For the time being, we would recommend all Little Dot MK II, MK III, MK IV, and MK IV SE users not to tube-roll the EF91 tube while we investigate the the compatibility. It's actually quite odd as we have not experienced the same in the lab, however we will definitely look into the matter. Thank you for your attention!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_- 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 DR's ?_

 

YES! (did you take my crystal ball?)

 A matched pair of 6H30-DR's and a matched pair of NOS 6H30Pi's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I haven't lost my mind (yet), but here is what started the itch.

 I worked a trade with another MKIVse owner, so I now have the current model MKIVse. It came with the gold pin EH 6H30Pi's in it. Yesterday, while rolling tubes and testing for the MKIII review, I thought...what the heck, let's try them EH's in the MKIII. I kid you not, I about feel on the floor! I had M8161 drivers in at the time, so when I turned the MKIII back on, it was a whole new sound signature! Everything great about the M8161 was now extremely great. I turned if off, put in my Amperex EF92 Bugle Boys, turned it back on and just sat there dumb founded. The difference in SQ was not subtle. It was huge! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I then put the EH 6H30Pi's in my MKII, which had 6CQ6 drivers in, and the same huge sound quality improvements were present!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Needless to say, I was pretty excited and got to thinking... MKIVse needs the DR's. MKIII needs the EH 6H30Pi's and the MKII needs the NOS 6H30Pi's. So I ordered them. I didn't even hesitate. They arrive Friday, so I should be able to post impressions either late Friday, or Saturday.


----------



## Penchum

Another part of it was the need to know. If the DR's aren't worth the expense, I can return them within 30 days. I feel very secure in saying that the EH 6H30Pi's are worth it. I'm hoping the NOS's are worth it too, because they are even cheaper.


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another part of it was the need to know. If the DR's aren't worth the expense, I can return them within 30 days. I feel very secure in saying that the EH 6H30Pi's are worth it. I'm hoping the NOS's are worth it too, because they are even cheaper. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Penchum - I would love to get some EH 6H30Pi's for my MKIII. Where are you ordering them from? Many thanks as always!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum - I would love to get some EH 6H30Pi's for my MKIII. Where are you ordering them from? Many thanks as always!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I ordered mine from here, you'll see the two types, the EH's and the NOS's. : Search for a tube


----------



## Penchum

I also found them cheaper here:

Musicdirect - SOVTEK - 6H30Pi TUBE SUPER LINEAR DUAL TRIODE (EA) for the NOS

Musicdirect - ELECTROHARMONIX - 6H30PI TUBE GOLD PINS (EA) for the EH's


----------



## jpstereo

Many thanks as always Penchum!


----------



## ethebull

All very cool info P.

 I knew you'd find a justification to find and buy some DR's at some point.


----------



## jpstereo

Just ordered them from Musicdirect for $22 a piece! Looking forward to popping these in my MKIII. Thanks again.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just ordered them from Musicdirect for $22 a piece! Looking forward to popping these in my MKIII. Thanks again._

 

You're welcome JP. That Musicdirect price was the best I could find. The only reason I ordered from TheTubeStore, was their matching service and the speed of shipping. For my MKIVse, I want those DR's to be matched as close as possible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If time permits, I'll try to do a comparative review of the three 6H30 models. I'm right in the middle of reviewing the MKIII (a pleasure for sure) and I have many more hours to go. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had really no idea it was going to be so cute and macho at the same time!


----------



## ethebull

P,

 I and others will be interested in how the better and best 30's compare to the range of tubes available using Bulldapters. Looking forward to reading your posts. 

 When's the MkIII review gonna hit?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All very cool info P.

 I knew you'd find a justification to find and buy some DR's at some point. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

True. I did this kinda "under" the radar, so I'll hear about it later.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This whole thing will also help me determine whether to stay in the single ended grouping, or go balanced. Based on what I heard last night, single ended is looking pretty good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I need to find a cheap or used set of balanced headphone wires for the HD-650's. I have a converter unit coming that will also help me determine the "balanced" issue. If you see any, PM me. Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_P,

 I and others will be interested in how the better and best 30's compare to the range of tubes available using Bulldapters. Looking forward to reading your posts. 

 When's the MkIII review gonna hit?_

 

Ow, next week(ish). I'm reviewing it a little bit deeper than I did the MKII, because of the MKIII's target audience and it's role as the "sweet spot". I think I'll even crack open the case on this one, and take some money shots.


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're welcome JP. That Musicdirect price was the best I could find. The only reason I ordered from TheTubeStore, was their matching service and the speed of shipping. For my MKIVse, I want those DR's to be matched as close as possible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If time permits, I'll try to do a comparative review of the three 6H30 models. I'm right in the middle of reviewing the MKIII (a pleasure for sure) and I have many more hours to go. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had really no idea it was going to be so cute and macho at the same time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am so much enjoying this little puppy. I have a pair of NOS RCA 6AK5s in it now and it sounds so lush with my HD650s. Looking forward to your 6H30 comparo as well as the MKIII review. Always a pleasure and we all appreciate the insight and useful tips.


----------



## dgbiker1

Thanks for the information Penchum, but I must say I dropped a pretty major F-Bomb when I saw your post
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There's another ~$40 I could've spent feeding myself... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've promised myself to stop reading your posts if they start with something like "I just got my DRs and popped them in...", that post would be wayyyy too expensive to read.
 I'm doubtful, but I'll probably give the EF91s another shot with those power tubes just for giggles.
 EDIT: Did tubestore offer matching services when you bought your EH tubes? The site doesn't show it as an option when I look it up.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the information Penchum, but I must say I dropped a pretty major F-Bomb when I saw your post
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There's another ~$40 I could've spent feeding myself... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've promised myself to stop reading your posts if they start with something like "I just got my DRs and popped them in...", that post would be wayyyy too expensive to read.
 I'm doubtful, but I'll probably give the EF91s another shot with those power tubes just for giggles.
 EDIT: Did tubestore offer matching services when you bought your EH tubes? The site doesn't show it as an option when I look it up._

 

Ya, it's in a drop down box right next to where you click to put it in the cart.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya, it's in a drop down box right next to where you click to put it in the cart. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

That option only shows up with the DRs and Sovteks when I look it up, but not the EH. I wonder if they only have 1 EH left in stock


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_YES! (did you take my crystal ball?)

 A matched pair of 6H30-DR's and a matched pair of NOS 6H30Pi's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I haven't lost my mind (yet), but here is what started the itch.

 I worked a trade with another MKIVse owner, so I now have the current model MKIVse. It came with the gold pin EH 6H30Pi's in it. Yesterday, while rolling tubes and testing for the MKIII review, I thought...what the heck, let's try them EH's in the MKIII. I kid you not, I about feel on the floor! I had M8161 drivers in at the time, so when I turned the MKIII back on, it was a whole new sound signature! Everything great about the M8161 was now extremely great. I turned if off, put in my Amperex EF92 Bugle Boys, turned it back on and just sat there dumb founded. The difference in SQ was not subtle. It was huge! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I then put the EH 6H30Pi's in my MKII, which had 6CQ6 drivers in, and the same huge sound quality improvements were present!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Needless to say, I was pretty excited and got to thinking... MKIVse needs the DR's. MKIII needs the EH 6H30Pi's and the MKII needs the NOS 6H30Pi's. So I ordered them. I didn't even hesitate. They arrive Friday, so I should be able to post impressions either late Friday, or Saturday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	























_

 

Welcome aboard the 6H30Pi-MK3 train my friend. Now everyone really should have a set of these in their stockpile. Best buy ever!!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S With th DR's You getting there to tubeAA bigtime!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That option only shows up with the DRs and Sovteks when I look it up, but not the EH. I wonder if they only have 1 EH left in stock
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Better email them and ask. There must be a reason. Since the EH's are newly constructed in Russia, maybe they really don't need to be matched. If this is true, then you could get them from Music Direct and save a few bucks, like JP did.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headcheck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome aboard the 6H30Pi-MK3 train my friend. Now everyone really should have a set of these in their stockpile. Best buy ever!!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S With th DR's You getting there to tubeAA bigtime!!_

 

You know you need Tube AA, when you stare at the front door in anticipation, because tracking says the tubes are "out for delivery".


----------



## ethebull

I’m currently listening to a pair of GE 5654 EF95 “Mobile Audio” Super Ruggedized driver tubes in combo with the Arcturus 7044 power tube set on the Bulldapters. A really sweet combination!

 The clarity and detail of the GE’s melds beautifully with the warmer rich character of the Arcturus Power tube.

 Yesterday I was running a pair of Mullard EF92 W77 6CQ6’s in combo with GE 5687 5-Star power tubes. Again, they seem to balance each other for a whole that is superior to their individual flavor. The drivers in this case offer the warmth and the 5-Stars work in the detail.

 I like both the above combos a good bit better than the GE+GE or Mullard+Arcturus. More on this when I’m ready for a full round-up post.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I’m currently listening to a pair of GE 5654 EF95 “Mobile Audio” Super Ruggedized driver tubes in combo with the Arcturus 7044 power tube set on the Bulldapters. A really sweet combination!

 The clarity and detail of the GE’s melds beautifully with the warmer rich character of the Arcturus Power tube.

 Yesterday I was running a pair of Mullard EF92 W77 6CQ6’s in combo with GE 5687 5-Star power tubes. Again, they seem to balance each other for a whole that is superior to their individual flavor. The drivers in this case offer the warmth and the 5-Stars work in the detail.

 I like both the above combos a good bit better than the GE+GE or Mullard+Arcturus. More on this when I’m ready for a full round-up post._

 

A note of confirmation for all MKII, MKIII, MKIV users; those GE "Mobile Audio" 5654's are some of the best 5654's out there. They were made for mobile radio phones, back before cell phones. Doctor's, Veterinarians, Emergency Response vehicles and the like, had those special radio/phones in their cars and trucks. They were super ruggedized to survive a "work truck" environment.

*E is absolutely right*, they have super clarity and ultra high resolution of the top end, without being overly bright. I run them with the darkest power tubes I have, like the E182CC Mullards, and the combination will bring that clarity to the Mullard's wide sound stage, which makes you "get lost" in the music, big time!

 Consider the GE Mobile Audio 5654's to be another "unknown treasure" like the Russian 6Z's. Another must have for your setup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are not generally expensive, but that will change before too long.


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Better email them and ask. There must be a reason. Since the EH's are newly constructed in Russia, maybe they really don't need to be matched. If this is true, then you could get them from Music Direct and save a few bucks, like JP did. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Quick processing by Musicdirect. Ordered last night - shipped today. Should have them by Wednesday.


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A note of confirmation for all MKII, MKIII, MKIV users; those GE "Mobile Audio" 5654's are some of the best 5654's out there. They were made for mobile radio phones, back before cell phones. Doctor's, Veterinarians, Emergency Response vehicles and the like, had those special radio/phones in their cars and trucks. They were super ruggedized to survive a "work truck" environment.

*E is absolutely right*, they have super clarity and ultra high resolution of the top end, without being overly bright. I run them with the darkest power tubes I have, like the E182CC Mullards, and the combination will bring that clarity to the Mullard's wide sound stage, which makes you "get lost" in the music, big time!

 Consider the GE Mobile Audio 5654's to be another "unknown treasure" like the Russian 6Z's. Another must have for your setup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are not generally expensive, but that will change before too long. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Penchum -

 Do buyers need to look for the words "Mobile Audio" or are GE 5654's the real deal? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks,

 JP


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum -

 Do buyers need to look for the words "Mobile Audio" or are GE 5654's the real deal? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks,

 JP_

 

The stock tubes supplied by LD in the MkIII are GE 5654's. Yes, there are more than a few made by GE so BBW!


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

It has to be Mobile Audio or 5 Star, otherwise you'll just get more of your stock tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think the 5 Star tubes actually sounds better than the ruggedized Mobile Audio line, the 5 Star being hand picked for sound quality and for broadcast applications while the Mobile Audio line being made first and foremost to not fail in a car, then SQ considerations comes next.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It has to be Mobile Audio or 5 Star, otherwise you'll just get more of your stock tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

X2 !


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## jpstereo

Excellent. Thanks!


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## Penchum

The 6H30's have been burning in since 11:30 this morning. I'll come back and give an update this evening. So far...I'm loving it!


----------



## Penchum

WARNING: USING THE 6H30 TYPE TUBES IN THE MKII & MKIII REQUIRES A RESISTOR CHANGE IN ORDER TO WORK PROPERLY. MORE INFORMATION IS FURTHER ON IN THIS THREAD. THE REQUIRED CHANGE INFO WAS FOUND OUT LATE. WITH THIS CHANGE, IT IS POSSIBLE TO HAVE SIMILIAR RESULTS TO THESE POSTED HERE. Thanks! Dave

 Sorry I didn't post last night. I discovered yesterday morning that I was coming down with something. By evening, I was pretty sick and not able to listen objectively. I'm still sick, so I'll just give you guys my initial impressions and discoveries. I'll have to do more critical listening later. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After some heavy initial tube swapping, it seems that my "pre-purchase" guess was correct. The MKII is very happy with the NOS 6H30-EB-PI. The MKIII is very happy with the EH 6H30-PI Gold, and the MKIVse is very happy with the 6H30-DR. Swapping them around did not produce the results I was expecting, and I ended up back to this same configuration three times.

 At first, I thought my results didn't make sense, but after doing it three times, and getting the same results, and some additional "think" time, it makes perfect sense. This all has to do with the level of quality components and design in each tube amp. Here are the three tube amps and my initial findings:

 1. Trying all three tube types in the *MKII*, against the 6H6N-PI I had in there originally, all three tube types showed the same improvement, but no improvement against each other. The *MKII* is unable to reveal the difference in tube quality between the DR, EH Gold and NOS. *The NOS wins* (Most Cost Effective)

 2. Trying all three tube types in the *MKIII*, against the 6H6N-PI I had in there originally, all three tube types showed an improvement, but the EH Gold and the DR showed a higher improvement than the NOS. The *MKIII* is unable to reveal the difference in tube quality between the DR and EH Gold. *The EH Gold wins* (Most Cost Effective)

 3. Trying the other two tube types in the *MKIVse*, against the EH 6H30-PI Gold I had in there originally, only the DR showed an improvement. The *MKIVse* is able to show the highest improvement with the DR tubes. *The DR wins* (Not the most Cost Effective) (The EH 6H30-Pi is the only viable cost effective alternative and is the stock power tube)

 Note: IMHO and YMMV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Addition #1 Burn-in time for the EH 6H30PI Gold and NOS 6H30PI seems to be around the 50 hour mark.

 I didn't have time to dig any deeper before my ears started getting messed up, so I'll just have to wait until later. I know the MKIVse owners will want to know the differences between the Gold and DR, but that will have to wait also. I hope I'm not too ill for this to make sense. It is possible though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll modify this post if my impressions change over the next week or so, and post an update explaining any changes.


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry I didn't post last night. I discovered yesterday morning that I was coming down with something. By evening, I was pretty sick and not able to listen objectively. I'm still sick, so I'll just give you guys my initial impressions and discoveries. I'll have to do more critical listening later. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After some heavy initial tube swapping, it seems that my "pre-purchase" guess was correct. The MKII is very happy with the NOS 6H30-EB-PI. The MKIII is very happy with the EH 6H30-PI Gold, and the MKIVse is very happy with the 6H30-DR. Swapping them around did not produce the results I was expecting, and I ended up back to this same configuration three times.

 At first, I thought my results didn't make sense, but after doing it three times, and getting the same results, and some additional "think" time, it makes perfect sense. This all has to do with the level of quality components and design in each tube amp. Here are the three tube amps and my initial findings:

 1. Trying all three tube types in the *MKII*, against the 6H6N-PI I had in there originally, all three tube types showed the same improvement, but no improvement against each other. The *MKII* is unable to reveal the difference in tube quality between the DR, EH Gold and NOS. *The NOS wins* (Most Cost Effective)

 2. Trying all three tube types in the *MKIII*, against the 6H6N-PI I had in there originally, all three tube types showed an improvement, but the EH Gold and the DR showed a higher improvement than the NOS. The *MKIII* is unable to reveal the difference in tube quality between the DR and EH Gold. *The EH Gold wins* (Most Cost Effective)

 3. Trying the other two tube types in the *MKIVse*, against the EH 6H30-PI Gold I had in there originally, only the DR showed an improvement. The *MKIVse* is able to show the highest improvement with the DR tubes. *The DR wins* (Not the most Cost Effective) (The EH 6H30-Pi is the only viable cost effective alternative and is the stock power tube)

 Note: IMHO and YMMV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I didn't have time to dig any deeper before my ears started getting messed up, so I'll just have to wait until later. I know the MKIVse owners will want to know the differences between the Gold and DR, but that will have to wait also. I hope I'm not too ill for this to make sense. It is possible though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll modify this post if my impressions change over the next week or so, and post an update explaining any changes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just got over the worst case of the flu I've since I was a child. Here's hoping you feel better real soon!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got over the worst case of the flu I've since I was a child. Here's hoping you feel better real soon!_

 

It's getting worse.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I just hate it. Can't get the brain pan to function. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Ow well, guess it's my turn anyway. Off to bed and rest.


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## ethebull

Rest P! Hope you feel better soon.


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## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rest P! Hope you feel better soon._

 

Morning E, I didn't sleep a wink. Have you ordered the EH 6H30PI Gold power tubes yet? Or did you already have them? Sorry, I can't remember. I am totally enjoying them in the MKIII (prior to this flu/head thing). I guess I'd say it would "round out" your power tube options for sure.


----------



## Penchum

I added this addition to the 6H30 tube review post:

 Addition #1 Burn-in time for the EH 6H30PI Gold and NOS 6H30PI seems to be around the 50 hour mark.

 Thanks!


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Morning E, I didn't sleep a wink. Have you ordered the EH 6H30PI Gold power tubes yet? Or did you already have them? Sorry, I can't remember. I am totally enjoying them in the MKIII (prior to this flu/head thing). I guess I'd say it would "round out" your power tube options for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Not yet...

 I will order them today. I'm curious how they improve on the stock tubes and want to compare them to the "adaptable group".


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not yet...

 I will order them today. I'm curious how they improve on the stock tubes and want to compare them to the "adaptable group"._

 

Hold your horses! Yen Audio on ebay is stocking matched pairs of the 6H30Pi power tubes, you might want to check his store out before ordering somewhere else.

6H30Pi-EB Sovtek Power Tubes Little Dot Amp MATCH PAIR - eBay (item 280207366210 end time Mar-15-08 15:24:25 PDT)


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## Penchum

Looks like he is also doing the EH's: 6H30Pi-EH Electro Harmonix Little Dot Amp MATCHED PAIR - eBay (item 280207369159 end time Mar-15-08 15:38:36 PDT)


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## ethebull

I bought the EH golds from Music Direct before seeing your posts. Not matched, but no waiting or potential to be out bid... $50 a pair incl. shipping, Same as Yen's opening price.


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## ethebull

Here’s what’s on the menu:

 Drivers:

*EF95 family:*

 GE 5654A Ruggedized consumer version
 GE 5654 “Mobile Audio” Super ruggedized.
 6ZH1P-EV Russian 5654 - with and with-out grooves
 Stock GE 5654 (revisited)
 Amperex 5654 “
 Mullard M8100 “

*EF92 family:*

 MWT W77
 Mullard W77 CV131 6CQ6 
 Unbranded CV4015 but very likely Mullard


*Power tubes:*

 Stock 6H6PI
 Electro-Harmonix 6H60Pi Gold

 The following require adapters to work in the MkIII:

 Arcturus 7044 - likely made by GE, possibly Sylvania
 GE 5687 5-Star
 Tung-Sol JTL 5687

 For Part I, I will focus on only the driver tubes. Part II will come in a week or so, addressing power tubes and combinations. All the above tubes were new or NOS when I got them and every pair has been burned in a minimum of 50 hours, most much more than that. 

 I’ve listened to all the driver tubes listed with the stock 6H6PI power tubes, and in combination with some but not all of the power tube options I have on hand. Trying all 50 possible combos would be - out of control? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And not necessary in the end, as combinations became fairly predictable once I was familiar with how each tube contributed to the whole.

 I did not use the same four song method as described in my first tube shoot-out. Frankly, I would have been bored to tears! I do not wear a lab coat normally while listening to my favorite tunes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All of the following subjective observations were accumulated over many hours of enjoyable listening with occasional note taking. 

 The *Stock GE drivers* are decent. They are brighter and more forward than any other I’ve tried and have less bass as well. Image localization is tight left to right, but the sound stage is compressed front to back. Nothing offensively “off” here what so ever, but there’s a nice range of qualities other driver tubes can bring to the equation.

*GE 5654A* Ruggedized consumer version. These are older production GE’s, and like a lot of old glass, they offer more refinement and class compared to newer production samples. Clarity is very good but they don’t come off as bright as the stock GE’s. Depth is also improved. Not the most powerful bass but a touch better than stocks.

*GE 5654 “Mobile Audio”* Super ruggedized. Very smooth clear and detailed. These take the improvements offered by the 5654A to the next level. Open detailed mids and linear bass accuracy. These are not very common tubes, don’t fret, the GE 5-Star 5654 version (more frequently on eBay and elsewhere) are in the same league (or even better*). 

*Amperex 5654* These are very similar to the GE 5654A’s but with a touch more bass. Not as refined in the highs as the Mobile Audio’s but over all a very well balanced choice. To me, these are what I call “sneaky good”. No one isolated featurette of their sound is top of the class, but the whole is hard to fault.

*6ZH1P-EV Russian 5654* These grab you immediately with their power and dynamics. Like upgrading to a more powerful amp to drive your speakers, the bass has more impact and weight, and dynamic swings are more expansive. This tube will have very broad appeal IMO. Often IME, a dose of dynamics and power comes at the expense of more brittle or edgy highs, or compromises in vocal rightness, musicality… There’s little if any of that here. Excellent resolution from bottom to top. Who’s not going to like these? - the listener who prefers a more polite presentation, - those who favor the warmer tubey’r EF92’s I’ve tried. GE’s-best might be a better choice for those who covet exceptional refinement in the high frequencies above all else. Bottom line though, at around $4 each when bought in quantity, everyone should give them a try.

*Mullard M8100* I’m apparently in the minority on these. The pair I have has no shield logo - a more recent production sample, and they offered a different balance of qualities and strengths to the stock tubes, but in the end didn’t raise the bar to me. YMMV. Their down fall in my pair, to my ears, was a touch of presence range fuzz. 

 “And now for something completely different”

*MWT W77* S-P-A-C-I-O-U-S! is the word. Penchum sent me these and as promised, they are like no other. He likes’em on old rock like Pink Floyd. (acid flashback specials 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) I found they help any unnaturally close mic’d recording from 50’s rock to overly forward soloists in classical stuff. Good luck finding a pair. 

*Mullard W77 CV131 6CQ6 EF92* These emphasize warmth and fullness. If you do not like it bright, these have a pleasant roll-off in the upper treble and offer a darker balance. I find they work really well for higher volume listening. Good sound stage depth, strong full bass, warm mids, a little less detailed, - not so “in your face”. The Unbranded CV4015’s I bought are indistinguishable in construction and sound. High volume rock and roll listeners will find much to like here.

 Hope you all enjoyed reading my thoughts and impressions. Part II will follow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 * word on the street (not tested by me but from very reliable member’s comments)


----------



## RogerB

Outstanding ethebull!!!!!!! Thanks for taking the time to do this review! 

 I ordered the Russian pair of driver tubes from Anthony Welsh on 2/26/08 but they have not arrived yet. Should I be worried???

 Thanks again ethebull! Most excellent!


----------



## RogerB

Lately I've been listening to the GE 5 star 5654 tubes and they are fantastic!!! I like them as well as any tube I have.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Outstanding ethebull!!!!!!! Thanks for taking the time to do this review! 

 I ordered the Russian pair of driver tubes from Anthony Welsh on 2/26/08 but they have not arrived yet. Should I be worried???

 Thanks again ethebull! Most excellent!_

 

First off, RogerB started this tread so we all owe him many thanks!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 6Z's I got from A Welsh took close to three weeks to arrive. Hang in there, they are worth the wait!

 5-Star's highs are the bomb! And not a fault to be found from the bottom up.

 Enjoy!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Nice work E....(grumbles about even more $$$$ for tubes
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Have a set of EH goldies on the way...

 Hope you feel better soon Pench....at least you can listen to lots of music while laid up.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lately I've been listening to the GE 5 star 5654 tubes and they are fantastic!!! I like them as well as any tube I have._

 

I like them too, very nice and clean treble.


----------



## headcheck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First off, RogerB started this tread so we all owe him many thanks!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 6Z's I got from A Welsh took close to three weeks to arrive. Hang in there, they are worth the wait!

 5-Star's highs are the bomb! And not a fault to be found from the bottom up.

 Enjoy!_

 

This just going to make my wait even better or worse (on how you look at it). Im expecting my set to arrive early next week. BUT I'll be in China for a whole month just days before it land!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So close yet so far!!


----------



## Penchum

Excellent review E !!

 It is rewarding to read your words and know they match my feelings on the tubes almost to the letter! You have a gifted ear my friend and many will benefit from your ability to express in words what you hear. Keep up the excellent work! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Don't feel odd about the M8100's. I have two different time period M8100's and at the end of the day, they sit in their boxes. It is hard to quantify what is wrong, and it may be that nothing is wrong...just nothing right either. Tubes are funny like that.

 Now you see why I get excited when I find a tube that defies the norm and carves a new path on it's own, like the 6Z's. What a marvelous tube. The new guys and the type of music they listen to, will really like the 6Z's. Old rockers, new rockers and progressives, need the 6Z's.

 The MWT's. What a tube. I don't know what they were made for, but I have a suspicion it wasn't for audio. Acid trip is the right word. Fun for sure! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm on the mend, so I'll be working hard to finish the MKIII review (sorry for the delay). It may take another day or so for my ears to clear. Right now, it doesn't matter what tube I use, they all sound "off". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a good one!!


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like he is also doing the EH's: 6H30Pi-EH Electro Harmonix Little Dot Amp MATCHED PAIR - eBay (item 280207369159 end time Mar-15-08 15:38:36 PDT)




_

 

Thanks Penchum, I didn't notice those until you pointed them out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A matching pair of power tubes would be lovely IMO... wait, is that my wallet whimpering in fear? Hmm.

 Oh well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On the topic of the M8100, I happen to like its Mullard M-series house sound of bass with punch and authority, and there's something to be said about its abilities that SwordYang used it on the MkIVse. Though I can see how that sound is not for everybody and the bright side is that there are quite a few other tubes in the EF95 family that will suit pretty much any taste.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Penchum, I didn't notice those until you pointed them out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A matching pair of power tubes would be lovely IMO... wait, is that my wallet whimpering in fear? Hmm.

 Oh well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Several times I've had to tell my wallet to sit there and shut up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's that late night whimpering I hate the most though! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ow, before I forget, DoA, are you still waiting for information from me on the guide? Thanks!


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On the topic of the M8100, I happen to like its Mullard M-series house sound of bass with punch and authority, and there's something to be said about its abilities that SwordYang used it on the MkIVse. Though I can see how that sound is not for everybody and the bright side is that there are quite a few other tubes in the EF95 family that will suit pretty much any taste._

 

The ones I bought were matched and tested, but it wouldn't surprise me if different pair of them could get me to like them better. They do have good punch and bass performance as you say. They were the first driver I bought to replace the stocks, and early on I liked them more. After a time though, especially through my K701's and then in comparison to others, they went to the back of the bus


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ones I bought were matched and tested, but it wouldn't surprise me if different pair of them could get me to like them better. They do have good punch and bass performance as you say. They were the first driver I bought to replace the stocks, and early on I liked them more. After a time though, especially through my K701's and then in comparison to others, they went to the back of the bus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have a pair of very old IEC version M8100's and a 50's version. The IEC are better I think, but both seem bright especially with my HD-600's. I would imagine they would seem really bright with K701's. Here's the thing though, they are clear and detailed in that brightness. Nothing wrong with that. It is a preference thing and some will really love it. If I listen to bright tubes for any length of time, I become uncomfortable. That has always made me look to warmer tubes that have flat responses in the upper spectrum. I can distinguish details just fine in that situation, so it seems better for me. It's just a preference mostly because I listen for hours at a time, instead of shorter sessions.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Well guys another piece of the puzzle fell into place yesterday. Bought a used set of HD650's from a fellow Head-Fi'er in the FS/T forum. Pretty darn good deal.

 The tubes I ordered from Yen arrived this past Friday. A set of JHS Slyvania EF95's dated Oct/53 and a set of Tung-Sol 403B ( marked Nationals, most likely from the 60's ). Is there anyway to tell what year these were made ? Just curious. Still have those Russian jems Pench talked about en route from the Ukraine. Itching to try these treasures out. A good session of Rush will sooth the soul ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I haven't been able to listen to my Mk III since one of the power tubes went pffft early last week. David at LD has sent me a replacement, it should be here Tuesday according to tracking. 

 It's driving me nuts waiting......maybe I should get another amp for back up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks E for the excellent tube driver round up posted a page or two back. That kind of info is GOLD. Between you and Penchum all base's are covered with regards to all things Little-Tube.

 Penchum, I'm glad your starting to feel better already, don't forget to take a shot of Scotch before bed each night ( my Grandmother always did this when she had the flu and she never had it for long because of it ). Can't hurt I suppose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I look forward to your Mk III review !!!!

 Happy Listening,

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well guys another piece of the puzzle fell into place yesterday. Bought a used set of HD650's from a fellow Head-Fi'er in the FS/T forum. Pretty darn good deal.

 The tubes I ordered from Yen arrived this past Friday. A set of JHS Slyvania EF95's dated Oct/53 and a set of Tung-Sol 403B ( marked Nationals, most likely from the 60's ). Is there anyway to tell what year these were made ? Just curious. Still have those Russian jems Pench talked about en route from the Ukraine. Itching to try these treasures out. A good session of Rush will sooth the soul ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I haven't been able to listen to my Mk III since one of the power tubes went pffft early last week. David at LD has sent me a replacement, it should be here Tuesday according to tracking. 

 It's driving me nuts waiting......maybe I should get another amp for back up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks E for the excellent tube driver round up posted a page or two back. That kind of info is GOLD. Between you and Penchum all base's are covered with regards to all things Little-Tube.

 Penchum, I'm glad your starting to feel better already, don't forget to take a shot of Scotch before bed each night ( my Grandmother always did this when she had the flu and she never had it for long because of it ). Can't hurt I suppose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I look forward to your Mk III review !!!!

 Happy Listening,

 Peete._

 

Who is that character in your avatar? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't stop giggling when I read your posts!


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't been able to listen to my Mk III since one of the power tubes went pffft early last week. David at LD has sent me a replacement, it should be here Tuesday according to tracking. 

 It's driving me nuts waiting......maybe I should get another amp for back up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks E for the excellent tube driver round up posted a page or two back. That kind of info is GOLD. Between you and Penchum all base's are covered with regards to all things Little-Tube.
_

 

Jeez, PP. Early last week? I have, let's see, two original stock power tubes, plus the 5 pairs I ordered early on before my adapter tube-a-holic affliction took root. I woulda sported you a pair man (for future considerations 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 Toss the word out to the community if you find yourself in a bind ya'all.

 E


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who is that character in your avatar? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't stop giggling when I read your posts! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 It's one of the terrorists from the "Team America World Police" Movie.

 Here's a link Team America World Police Movie, Team America Movie - Official Site That movie is hilarious. Check it out.

 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jeez, PP. Early last week? I have, let's see, two original stock power tubes, plus the 5 pairs I ordered early on before my adapter tube-a-holic affliction took root. I woulda sported you a pair man (for future considerations 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 Toss the word out to the community if you find yourself in a bind ya'all.

 E_

 


 Thanks E, your the best !!! I should be ok after this week for power tubes, however If I'm ever in a bind like that again I'll take you up on the offer. I've got lots of goodies to swap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Too much, says the wife 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With some EH 6H30Pi goldies on the way from Music Direct I should be ok for a while. Same place I bought all my Nordost IC/speaker cables from a few years back. Ouch was that expensive.

 Best Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

You guys, so I called Music Direct today to see if they can match their tubes and match their prices on the 6H30Pi with Yen Audio's on ebay. It turned out that they are actually out of stock on the 6H30Pi's and won't be having them for another two to three weeks. Oh, and they won't match Yen Audio's prices (it was a long shot, but thought I'd try). Just a heads-up for those of you thinking about buying the upgrade power tubes from Music Direct, make sure to check with them first about availability otherwise you might end up waiting for a few weeks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh and don't bid on those tubes on ebay, I call dibs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - DoA


----------



## ethebull

This message was sent to you at the request of Music Direct to notify you that the package information below has been transmitted to UPS. The package...

 I got the last pr?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Looks like it E........I'll bet MD isn't ready for the LD tube roller army 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They better order a bigger batch of 6H30Pi's if they know what's good for them


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like it E........I'll bet MD isn't ready for the LD tube roller army 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They better order a bigger batch of 6H30Pi's if they know what's good for them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've seen the commercial, they have an American Express Plum Card, I'm sure they can afford to stock a large inventory of LD tubes
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm glad they're out of stock, now I can spend that money on the parking ticket I got a couple weeks ago haha.

 BTW: I got my Tung Sol 403Bs (coincidentally this is reply 403 on this thread) on Saturday, and they're fantastic. Will post a comparison to the stock tubes and the Amperex EF91s, FWIW
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, soon.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's one of the terrorists from the "Team America World Police" Movie.

 Here's a link Team America World Police Movie, Team America Movie - Official Site That movie is hilarious. Check it out.

 Regards,

 Peete._

 

In a similar vein, this never fails to get me to LMAO:

BLUtube - Terrorist Watch List SNL


----------



## ethebull

A few well heeled wack jobs sure seem to think these are the cat's pajamas. 

2 pairs factory matched Telefunken tubes 5654 V72a V81 - eBay (item 180221023038 end time Mar-11-08 07:53:01 PDT)

 What gives?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A few well heeled wack jobs sure seem to think these are the cat's pajamas. 

2 pairs factory matched Telefunken tubes 5654 V72a V81 - eBay (item 180221023038 end time Mar-11-08 07:53:01 PDT)

 What gives?_

 


 This price gouging crap is getting out of hand. Lots of this type of thing going on lately I'm afraid. Saw all kinds of mullards and Tung sols going for stupid money on Fleabay the last couple of weeks. It's the new gold rush


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In a similar vein, this never fails to get me to LMAO:

BLUtube - Terrorist Watch List SNL_

 


 LOL......How did Bob keep a straight face through that ? I loved him in Midnight Run with Charles Grodin.

 I wonder if Bin-Laden watches SNL ?

 E...which name shall I select from the skit for my little avatar buddy ? I was thinking A) "Mustaf Herod Apyur Poupr" 
 or B) "I-Zheet M'Drurz"



 Unofficial name Peete's avatar poll, vote for A or B. 

 First selection to garner 10 votes wins !!!!!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've seen the commercial, they have an American Express Plum Card, I'm sure they can afford to stock a large inventory of LD tubes
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm glad they're out of stock, now I can spend that money on the parking ticket I got a couple weeks ago haha.

 BTW: I got my Tung Sol 403Bs (coincidentally this is reply 403 on this thread) on Saturday, and they're fantastic. Will post a comparison to the stock tubes and the Amperex EF91s, FWIW
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, soon._

 

What's the statute of limitations on parking tickets ? I have about 30 unpaid tickets in Boston Mass from the mid 80's. I'd just rip em up (every time I'd get one) and head home (Lived in NH at the time). There is no where to park in Boston. Just friggin' awful trying to find any spot that didn't have 6 different rules ,time zones, holiday rules......sheesh, worse than Toronto and that's bad.

 I'll bet the final tally of combined fines was a few grand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Young and dumb at the time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Funny I haven't had a single parking ticket since then . Go figure.

 I have a set of the same 403b's that you have dgbiker1, I'm itching to try out as well. I hope they work well with those new EH 6H30Pi's. Did you get them from Yen Audio ? Mine are Nationals but Yen sold them as Tung-Sols. They were expensive.....then again just won an auction last night for some RCA 5751 triple mica blk plates ( for a tube phono stage) that cost me 72 bones for the pair. They are 1962 vintage. Missed out on 10 Tung-sol 12AX7 (60's long grey plates )for 100 bucks which I'm going to regret because they are fantastic in Marshall Amps. Doh. Got outbid with 5 seconds left. Man I hate that.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL......How did Bob keep a straight face through that ? I loved him in Midnight Run with Charles Grodin.

 I wonder if Bin-Laden watches SNL ?_

 

Just stupid - wet your pants funny. He should have been a puddle on the floor like Harvey Korman used to lose it.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just stupid - wet your pants funny. He should have been a puddle on the floor like Harvey Korman used to lose it._

 

Tim Conway could aways get Harvey to lose it. Most of that was ad-lib live too.

 Ah the days when TV was actually good. I guess I'm an official old f*&ker now


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_E...which name shall I select from the skit for my little avatar buddy ? I was thinking A) "Mustaf Herod Apyur Poupr" 
 or B) "I-Zheet M'Drurz"



 Unofficial name Peete's avatar poll, vote for A or B. 

 First selection to garner 10 votes wins !!!!!!_

 

E votes B! 

 I laughed so hard, I believe I left a stain on meself.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the statute of limitations on parking tickets ? I have about 30 unpaid tickets in Boston Mass from the mid 80's. I'd just rip em up (every time I'd get one) and head home (Lived in NH at the time). There is no where to park in Boston. Just friggin' awful trying to find any spot that didn't have 6 different rules ,time zones, holiday rules......sheesh, worse than Toronto and that's bad.

 I'll bet the final tally of combined fines was a few grand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Young and dumb at the time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Funny I haven't had a single parking ticket since then . Go figure.

 I have a set of the same 403b's that you have dgbiker1, I'm itching to try out as well. I hope they work well with those new EH 6H30Pi's. Did you get them from Yen Audio ? Mine are Nationals but Yen sold them as Tung-Sols. They were expensive.....then again just won an auction last night for some RCA 5751 triple mica blk plates ( for a tube phono stage) that cost me 72 bones for the pair. They are 1962 vintage. Missed out on 10 Tung-sol 12AX7 (60's long grey plates )for 100 bucks which I'm going to regret because they are fantastic in Marshall Amps. Doh. Got outbid with 5 seconds left. Man I hate that._

 

Yea, I got my 403's from Yen and they are labeled as Nationals. They were a bit spendy, but worth it.
 I probably would've torn my parking ticket up too since it was such a BS ticket, but it was from my University and they won't let me graduate in May unless I pay it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm a bit peeved that I pay $400/year for a pass that I can hardly use because they oversold passes. I spent 45 minutes that day looking for a spot and ended parking in what looked like a spot, but wasn't (faded lines). My first ticket of any kind in 8 years of driving.


----------



## dgbiker1

I think I've put enough time on my new tubes to post my impressions on them by now. I'll be comparing the stock GE 5654, Tung Sol/National 403B, and Amperex EF91s. I always do well with analogies that don't make sense to anyone else, so I'll be comparing these to cars
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It sounds weird, but 2 minutes into my 403B experience I couldn't help but think "this is an Audi"... So here it goes:

*Stock GE 5654-*
 Not much to say here, everybody has these, everybody has heard them. Pretty good extension into the lows and highs. Compared to the other two tubes I would characterize this as relatively bright. While it doesn't extend as far into the highs, the frequency response just sounds like it is shifted slightly towards high mids/low treble. 

 Compared to the other two tubes, these sound a bit less solid and a bit loose- I wouldn't call it distortion, but just seems a bit less controlled.
 So what kind of car is it? 1989 Mercury Topaz, my first car
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It works, it'll get you around, it can handle the freeway- a workhorse. Handling is a bit vague, not always under control it seems. Lot's of quirks (like being able to pull out the key while driving) that add to it's charm.





*Amperex EF91-*
 This is simultaneously the best tube and the biggest disappointment. The sound is incredible, lively but solid with great hi/lo extension and phenomenal detail. The problem, as documented in this thread, is you can't even drive these at comfortable listening volumes before they start to distort. They're great for critical listening, but when you just want to rock out they won't go there- unfortunate because I believe they would best the other tubes hands down for crazy-dancing-singing sessions. They're both musical and detailed, with a very solid sounding foundation. While the jury is still out on the cause of the volume/distortion issue, I can't help but think these tubes are just too much for this amp with their high current rating.

 With that in mind, this tube is the Veyron of my collection. Relatively exotic, exquisitely engineered, but completely impractical. You see a tremendous potential in it, but just can't exploit it. All that power ends up hurting it's performance in the real world- MKIII can't handle the Amperex, real roads can't handle the Veyron.





*Tung Sol/ National 403B-*
 This tube is the reason for my stupid car analogy. As soon as I started listening I thought "Audi". After driving my Topaz for 3 years, a friend that works at a local tuning shop had to take an Audi S4 out for the night (legally!). He took me for a ride, and my impressions going from Topaz to S4 were exactly what I felt going from GE 5654 to 403B (EF91s don't count). The first thing you notice is "HOLY S***, THIS THING IS SOLID!". The 403B has a relatively neutral response that is incredibly well controlled, no distortion. It really gives you the impression that you can drive the tube as loud as you want without distorting or damaging anything, it's a rock. The sound has a very solid foundation. Bass extends lower and is far better controlled than the stock 5654s, I would say equivalent to the EF91. While mids and treble aren't quite as sweet as with the EF91s, the 403B is miles ahead of the 5654- and you can actually drive this tube as loud or quiet as you want.

 But the neutrality and solidity come at a price, I missed the 5654s a bit. Like the Audi, the 403B does everything you want it to, high performance, solid, dependable, it won't do anything crazy. It takes commands and performs. Because of that, some of the charm is lost. After the Topaz died and I started driving better cars, some of the charm was gone. No more off-roading, no more friends riding on the roof, beater drag racing, hack saw and velcro "customization", no more car food-fights, or driving in the ditch to take out political signs. With civility comes a loss of excitement it seems. The 5654 had those little quirks that colored the sound, made it sound a bit "off". Things that make it a lower class tube, but that give it personality. The 403B is a german sport-sedan in every way- high performance, still practical, neutral, predictable, but in the end lacking a little personality. Clearly, the 403B is an Audi/BMW. I'll say an RS4 because I bloody love that car (sorry M3, no AWD).





*Conclusion*
 As anyone that knows me can attest to, I'm a sucker for german cars. At the end of the day, the Tung Sol is the tube for me. Practical and flexible enough to use with everything, yet capable of incredible performances. I'll give up some personality for do-anything-edness.

 The EF91 is the race car I keep in the garage. I'll take it out on occasion, but I can't really use it to do much. The best performer of the bunch, but completely impractical.

 And the stock GE 5654 is the memory of my reckless youth. It's not the best tube, but like the Topaz I'm glad I started with this one. We had good times, I familiarized myself with tubes using the GE, it made me appreciate better tubes, and it will be remembered but the time has come to move on to bigger and better things my (~2 month) old friend friend... 

 At least the 5654 now sits in a box, my last memory of the Topaz was a dented heap of metal sitting in front of our house, covered in mud, blow-up doll head on the hood, one wheel a bit crooked, chow-mein and salsa stuck in the crevices, coolant leaking into the street waiting to be picked up by Goodwill on the day I left for college
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*EDIT:* I also just built a Meier Crossfeed w/ slight bass boost this weekend and it really complements the 403B nicely. It adds a very, very subtle effect (I didn't think it worked at first) that really helps the 403B become a bit more lively, natural, and 3-dimensional. Just a slight effect such that the sound is unmistakably 403B but a little more engaging and less teutonic, like adding a little Ferrari to the Audi. Highly recommended with this (or any) configuration, especially since it cost $11 and took 45 minutes to build.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea, I got my 403's from Yen and they are labeled as Nationals. They were a bit spendy, but worth it.
 I probably would've torn my parking ticket up too since it was such a BS ticket, but it was from my University and they won't let me graduate in May unless I pay it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm a bit peeved that I pay $400/year for a pass that I can hardly use because they oversold passes. I spent 45 minutes that day looking for a spot and ended parking in what looked like a spot, but wasn't (faded lines). My first ticket of any kind in 8 years of driving._

 


 Wow that stinks......since this happened on school property was it campus cops that issued the ticket ? Maybe you can plead your case and get it thrown out ?

 You paid for a parking pass that was oversold....you have a good case for dismissal of fine IMO. Worth a shot I think.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Excellent round up on the three different tube sets dgbiker1 !!!.

 The part about abusing the first car brought back some memories. LOL stuff, especially the ditch diving political sign annihilation quest. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Are you sure your not my little brother ?

 Oh man I have the flu now like Penchum....this sucks ballz...haven't been sick for over 3 years.

 And it's March break.....damn kids


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Since the overwhelming response to my poll has locked up my hi tech tabulation device ( my burn't old smokey brain) E's choice of "B" has been chosen.

 From here on my Avatar shall be known as "I'Zheet M'Drurz" 


 That is all.......


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At least the 5654 now sits in a box, my last memory of the Topaz was a dented heap of metal sitting in front of our house, covered in mud, blow-up doll head on the hood, one wheel a bit crooked, chow-mein and salsa stuck in the crevices, coolant leaking into the street waiting to be picked up by Goodwill on the day I left for college
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 You were merely trying to prove the "Ford built tough" theory.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent round up on the three different tube sets dgbiker1 !!!.

 The part about abusing the first car brought back some memories. LOL stuff, especially the ditch diving political sign annihilation quest. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Are you sure your not my little brother ?

 Oh man I have the flu now like Penchum....this sucks ballz...haven't been sick for over 3 years.

 And it's March break.....damn kids 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

PP, if you have what I have, it has a re-bound, so be careful. I was doing better, right ear cleared and only the left was stuffed, then last night about 10:00, I started to feel yuck again. It made for a rough morning. Slept some extra hours during the day, now I feel tired. It's a battle for sure. Thank goodness for headphone amps, they are helping keep my sanity. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Off to have some chicken soup.


----------



## Skylab

Worst flu ever. It was the worst for the first 5 days, but I really wasn't better for 2 weeks.


----------



## jpstereo

Agreed! I'm on my second week and I still feel like crap! Take care all!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed! I'm on my second week and I still feel like crap! Take care all!_

 

Ow JP, you too! I guess it's time for "E" to come down with this stuff. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Sorry to hear that. Just let the music carry you away to another place.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PP, if you have what I have, it has a re-bound, so be careful. I was doing better, right ear cleared and only the left was stuffed, then last night about 10:00, I started to feel yuck again. It made for a rough morning. Slept some extra hours during the day, now I feel tired. It's a battle for sure. Thank goodness for headphone amps, they are helping keep my sanity. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Off to have some chicken soup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Thanks Pench......what a weird day this has been, freeze for a while, go hurl, sweat bullets, feel a bit better, go hurl, take a nap, boil a bit, go hurl, eat a bowl of Captain Crunch, then go hurl, nap again, freeze my ass off, joints kill, eat a cookie, go hurl......

 Wife makes scrambled eggs for kids at lunchtime......me smell eggs....go hurl.....suddenly have craving for eggs...eat 2 soft boiled eggs, chug some gatoraid, freeze again, pass on dinner,get headache, ears pop, ears plug, watch hockey, go hurl.....sheesh.

 The flu sure is fun


----------



## ethebull

I feel like I should sanitize my keyboard after chatting with you flu bugged lepers.

 "out for delivery" for me EH golds


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel like I should sanitize my keyboard after chatting with you flu bugged lepers.

 "out for delivery" for me EH golds_

 

Good deal! You'll like them after burn-in. Pretty good out of box too.
 I'm with PP, sick of being sick. Stay at home, away from idiots who go to work sick.


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel like I should sanitize my keyboard after chatting with you flu bugged lepers.

 "out for delivery" for me EH golds_

 

Mine are also slated for delivery today! I know what I will be doing tonight! I also picked up 3 GE NOS 5 star 5654s on ebay for 20 bucks! Can't wait to get those little suckers in too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 JP


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine are also slated for delivery today! I know what I will be doing tonight! I also picked up 3 GE NOS 5 star 5654s on ebay for 20 bucks! Can't wait to get those little suckers in too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 JP_

 

Good deal JP!! Those 5-stars are very interesting little guys. Nice clarity in the highs! I should be getting my Sylvania Golds today, so I'll be doing the same thing...burning-in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be in bed though. Impressions to follow when I can hear again.


----------



## jacknife

Got my gold eh's from Music Direct yesterday but unfortunately I must have gotten a bum set
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I ran them for about 5 hours. One tube glows noticeably brighter and the MKIII runs much hotter than with the stock ones. The biggest problem is one channel has a much lower volume level than the other. I switched the tubes and the low volume changes to the other channel. Oh well, back to the stock ones I guess.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jacknife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my gold eh's from Music Direct yesterday but unfortunately I must have gotten a bum set
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I ran them for about 5 hours. One tube glows noticeably brighter and the MKIII runs much hotter than with the stock ones. The biggest problem is one channel has a much lower volume level than the other. I switched the tubes and the low volume changes to the other channel. Oh well, back to the stock ones I guess._

 

Make them replace it, for sure.


----------



## Tech2

Ok, quick question for you guys:

 I got some Sylvania 6AK5 tubes on fleabay. The boxes (and tubes) are marked 6AK5WB. What the heck is a WB and are they compatible with my LDMKIII?

 I looked for a data sheet on a WB, but only came up with a W.


----------



## ethebull

I've been running my new set of golds for 6-7 hours. They have potential, (no imbalance like jacknife has), but at the moment they are overly damped in a weird sort of way. Bass and dynamics in general seem pinched. Where notes should bloom and expand and decay in a natural musical way, they instead sort of "pump" and recede not so naturally. This has lessened as I "check in on them" - and this sort of anomaly is not worrisome in the early going, necessarily... Time will tell. Other sonic qualities seem promising.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tech2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, quick question for you guys:

 I got some Sylvania 6AK5 tubes on fleabay. The boxes (and tubes) are marked 6AK5WB. What the heck is a WB and are they compatible with my LDMKIII?

 I looked for a data sheet on a WB, but only came up with a W._

 

No compatibility issues. You are good to go. A tube designation ending in WA or WB is, I believe, supposed to be an upgraded version from the 6AK5 standard issue. B generally stronger than A (?)

 Other more hep tubophiles than me on nomenclature, please chime in!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been running my new set of golds for 6-7 hours. They have potential, (no imbalance like jacknife has), but at the moment they are overly damped in a weird sort of way. Bass and dynamics in general seem pinched. Where notes should bloom and expand and decay in a natural musical way, they instead sort of "pump" and recede not so naturally. This has lessened as I "check in on them" - and this sort of anomaly is not worrisome in the early going, necessarily... Time will tell. Other sonic qualities seem promising._

 

That sounds about right. I don't remember at what hour point mine turned around. I'm pretty sure it was in the second day of running though. Maybe 16-20 hours, something like that. It happened rather quickly though, so don't be too surprised if you set down the headphones, eat supper, come back and they sound totally different. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They do seem to produce more heat, so ventilation should be looked at, just to make sure it is good.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No compatibility issues. You are good to go. A tube designation ending in WA or WB is, I believe, supposed to be an upgraded version from the 6AK5 standard issue. B generally stronger than A (?)

 Other more hep tubophiles than me on nomenclature, please chime in!_

 

I may have dreamed this, but I thought the W stood for mechanically improved? I guess I thought the A and B were versions. With this flu thing, I could be full of it.


----------



## Tech2

Thanks guys.

 I got a great price on sleeve of 5 Sylvania's ($20 shipped) but I didn't realize they were the WB version.

 Cool.

 BTW, wouldn't it be much nicer if a standard sleeve contained 6 tubes instead of 5?


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tech2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks guys.

 I got a great price on sleeve of 5 Sylvania's ($20 shipped) but I didn't realize they were the WB version.

 Cool.

 BTW, wouldn't it be much nicer if a standard sleeve contained 6 tubes instead of 5? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Yeah! What!

 It began in the 40's and 50's when these tubes we are now paying anywhere from $3-100 a piece for, sold for $.75ea. Folks bought them for their radios and TV's etc., or your friendly neighborhood repair tech bought them in fives for a discount. These days, buying a five pack is an indication of authenticity, though not so convenient...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah! What!

 It began in the 40's and 50's when these tubes we are now paying anywhere from $3-100 a piece for, sold for $.75ea. Folks bought them for their radios and TV's etc., or your friendly neighborhood repair tech bought them in fives for a discount. These days, buying a five pack is an indication of authenticity, though not so convenient..._

 

I always assumed it was a way for the manufacturer to make more money. You want more tubes, you have to order 5. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On the positive side, this means more tubes out there for us to scarf on.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tech2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, quick question for you guys:

 I got some Sylvania 6AK5 tubes on fleabay. The boxes (and tubes) are marked 6AK5WB. What the heck is a WB and are they compatible with my LDMKIII?

 I looked for a data sheet on a WB, but only came up with a W._

 

Got a pic?


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been running my new set of golds for 6-7 hours. They have potential, (no imbalance like jacknife has), but at the moment they are overly damped in a weird sort of way. Bass and dynamics in general seem pinched. Where notes should bloom and expand and decay in a natural musical way, they instead sort of "pump" and recede not so naturally. This has lessened as I "check in on them" - and this sort of anomaly is not worrisome in the early going, necessarily... Time will tell. Other sonic qualities seem promising._

 

Popped mine in last night for an hour and so and boy do these things run HOT! Much hotter than the stock tubes. Sound is overall very nice and there are no imbalance issues - thank goodness. They definitely will need some extended break in.


----------



## webghost

i´ve heared that we have to change the cathode resistor from 68 Ohm to 120 Ohm for the use of 6h30p.

 I´ve build in an switch, so i can select between 68 or 120ohm.
 With 120ohm the Amp runs less hot (and the tube improves lifetime)

 greets
 Stefan


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webghost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i´ve heared that we have to change the cathode resistor from 68 Ohm to 120 Ohm for the use of 6h30p.

 I´ve build in an switch, so i can select between 68 or 120ohm.
 With 120ohm the Amp runs less hot (and the tube improves lifetime)

 greets
 Stefan_

 

Hmm, all I know is my MkIII don't seem happy at'all with these 6H30's

 I have a message in to DZZ about it. 

 Later,

 E


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webghost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i´ve heared that we have to change the cathode resistor from 68 Ohm to 120 Ohm for the use of 6h30p.

 I´ve build in an switch, so i can select between 68 or 120ohm.
 With 120ohm the Amp runs less hot (and the tube improves lifetime)

 greets
 Stefan_

 

Where did you hear about this? I checked before ever trying these and LD says they will work just fine, except the MKIVse can't use the 6H6N tubes. So far, I haven't had any negative reactions from the amp or tubes, when using the 6H30's.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, all I know is my MkIII don't seem happy at'all with these 6H30's

 I have a message in to DZZ about it. 

 Later,

 E_

 

How is it, that your MKIII doesn't seem happy?


----------



## fdhfdy

I am using EF95, it works prety good.


----------



## webghost

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you hear about this? I checked before ever trying these and LD says they will work just fine, except the MKIVse can't use the 6H6N tubes. So far, I haven't had any negative reactions from the amp or tubes, when using the 6H30's._

 

i´ve read it somewere in an german forum, in the LD-forum and there:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/lit...-mkiii-264148/

 greets
 Stefan


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Well the replacement tube came from David / LD. The problem persists though. I wonder if the tubes need to be matched ? Swapped them around and the hum followed the bad tube(s). It's the tube for sure as the hum only appears after a minute or two of initial power up. 

 I have secured a lot of 12 6N6P's from the Ukraine..... 

 MD sent me the "back ordered EH 6H30Pi's" would you like to cancel your order email. So I canceled it. I figure the money is better spent (for now) on the larger lot of 12 Russian 6N6P's. Hopefully I will get the MkIII up and running, noise free, in another 2 weeks.

 Still feel like crap although the upchuck fest has settled down ( thank god for small mercies). I'm not even close to being over this ( 3 days so far ). What a way to spend March break !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least my HD650's should be here on Friday


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webghost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i´ve read it somewere in an german forum, in the LD-forum and there:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/lit...-mkiii-264148/

 greets
 Stefan_

 

I hate it when I miss posts like that!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the replacement tube came from David / LD. The problem persists though. I wonder if the tubes need to be matched ? Swapped them around and the hum followed the bad tube(s). It's the tube for sure as the hum only appears after a minute or two of initial power up. 

 I have secured a lot of 12 6N6P's from the Ukraine..... 

 MD sent me the "back ordered EH 6H30Pi's" would you like to cancel your order email. So I canceled it. I figure the money is better spent (for now) on the larger lot of 12 Russian 6N6P's. Hopefully I will get the MkIII up and running, noise free, in another 2 weeks.

 Still feel like crap although the upchuck fest has settled down ( thank god for small mercies). I'm not even close to being over this ( 3 days so far ). What a way to spend March break !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least my HD650's should be here on Friday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ya, I agree. One little post we missed about the 6H30PI. Ow well, I have plenty of 6N6P-PI's.

 My flu is now in the "all joints ache" part. Gotta rest some more. Day 7 and counting....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya, I agree. One little post we missed about the 6H30PI. Ow well, I have plenty of 6N6P-PI's.

 My flu is now in the "all joints ache" part. Gotta rest some more. Day 7 and counting...._

 


 I've been taking Tylenol Arthritis formula....really helps with the achy joints thing. Your almost out of the woods P, everyone I've talked to here says the bug is gone by day 8 or 9 on average. Hang in there and get some more ZZZzzzZZZ's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just an FYI, the flu, soft boiled eggs, a raunchy digestive tract, small confined space, bad combination !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Bummer about the grid resistor change for 6H30's.


----------



## ethebull

PP, I sent you a PM. You need to turn on your PM notification option.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PP, I sent you a PM. You need to turn on your PM notification option. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

 Oops...ok me checking now.


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hate it when I miss posts like that!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Does that mean I should pull mine out? I wonder if I can return them to Musicdirect?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does that mean I should pull mine out? I wonder if I can return them to Musicdirect? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi JP, I'm bummed too. You should be able to return them, unless they have a weird policy. You could sell them in the FS forum. MKIVse owners can use them no problems, so that might work?

 I'm looking to see if there is another option. I really like the improvements in sound, so I find it hard to "give 'em up".


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webghost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i´ve heared that we have to change the cathode resistor from 68 Ohm to 120 Ohm for the use of 6h30p.

 I´ve build in an switch, so i can select between 68 or 120ohm.
 With 120ohm the Amp runs less hot (and the tube improves lifetime)

 greets
 Stefan_

 

Thanks for finding this for all of us. It was far enough back, I never saw it. Now I have a problem. I really liked the improvements in SQ, so I'm interested in the mod you've done. Could you please take a pic and tell us about it? If it is too much of a mod, I suppose I wouldn't do it, but if simple, I think I might.
 Thanks!!!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Webghost,

 Would a bog standard SPST mini toggle (on/on) rated at 125Vac 3 A do the job ?

 Peete.



 PS Hey, 7 posts away from the century mark


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi JP, I'm bummed too. You should be able to return them, unless they have a weird policy. You could sell them in the FS forum. MKIVse owners can use them no problems, so that might work?

 I'm looking to see if there is another option. I really like the improvements in sound, so I find it hard to "give 'em up"._

 

Thanks Penchum. I'll pull them tonight and offer them up for sale. Too bad - I liked what I heard - but OH that heat! What do you suggest I pick up as an improvement over the stock power tubes instead?


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Webghost,

 Would a bog standard SPST mini toggle (on/on) rated at 125Vac 3 A do the job ?

 Peete.



 PS Hey, 7 posts away from the century mark 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Off the top of my head I think you would need 2 SPST switches for each tube (1 for each resistor), 4 total.
 Alternatively you could either use an SPDT for each tube, where you would connect 68Ω to A and 120Ω to B (or vice versa)




 Or use a single DPDT switch to switch both tubes simultaneously




 I'm thinking of going the DPDT route myself so that you can't screw up and have 2 or 0 resistors hooked up to one tube or 1 tube at 68Ω and the other at 120Ω. I still need to save up money for the Golds though
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 EDIT: And I think 125VAC @ 3A is good enough. These amps don't even output 1W, so unless they're less than 0.3% efficient (which I doubt!), that rating will be fine. I think you might want to use slightly beefier resistors than your standard 1/8W or 1/4W though.
 Looking at the picture, the 68Ω is the blue-grey-black pretty large resistor sitting next to the smaller brown electrolytic capacitors in the middle of the board between the two tube sockets. On the bottom it's between the huge brown caps and the small brown cap. On the top it's right under the brown cap covering the "III" on the board. I don't know what the power rating is on those, but they look like at least 1W?




 I'm also thinking of using reed switches. Does anyone know if magnets + tubes are a bad idea? Seems ill-advised, but it would be very cool


----------



## webghost

i´ve done an other way. I dont know what happens if the switch breaks
 and no resistor is connectet to the cathode.

 i´ve soldered out one end of the 68 Ohm resistor and put an 30,1 and an 21,5 Ohm in series, this gives about 120 Ohm. With the switch i make a bridge over the two new resistors, so i have with closed switch the old 68 Ohm.

 two ON/OFF switches with 1A will be ok.

 sorry for my bad english and the poor drawing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Mk III is still in Ebay and i would not screw it up any more.

 the Pics:








 greets 
 Stefan


----------



## dgbiker1

Nice work webghost, very elegant
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What is the power rating for your resistors (Watts)?


----------



## webghost

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the power rating for your resistors (Watts)?_

 

i don´t know - from the size 0,25 or 0,5 Watts
 there is no 52 Ohm resistor available, so i´ve used this two ones.

 the circuit works fine, nothing gets hot, even not the resistors.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Right on dgbiker1,

 Would generic metal oxide (flameproof 5%) 120 ohm 1 watters do the job ?

 Found both HD DPDT toggles and the above resistors at partsexpress....

 I don't know If I'm going to try this although the unabashed tinkerer in me is saying go for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's a darn cheap mod at least !


----------



## Pricklely Peete

After checking out webghost's ingenious solution just adding a pair of switches and one pair of 62 ohm resistors wired in like webghosts mod looks like the best way to go. Very short signal paths when switched in and retains original pathway when switched out. no drilling, mess....simple. 

 Thanks webghost.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right on dgbiker1,

 Would generic metal oxide (flameproof 5%) 120 ohm 1 watters do the job ?

 Found both HD DPDT toggles and the above resistors at partsexpress....

 I don't know If I'm going to try this although the unabashed tinkerer in me is saying go for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's a darn cheap mod at least !_

 

Based on what webghost is saying, it sounds like 1W should do the job. 5% is probably good enough too. I'm looking at 3W myself just to be absolutely sure, but there is no reason for it especially since webghost says it doesn't even get hot
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You might also want to consider 1% resistors. If I buy a bundle of them I'll usually get 5% or 10% since I can match them by hand and save money, but in this case I'll only be buying two so 1% seems worth the extra few cents. I don't know how much of a difference a 10% (one @+5%, other at -5% in the worst case) mismatch would make, but again I'm just playing it safe.

 I must say webghost's series idea sounds very good to me, I like the idea that it reverts to 120Ω in case of switch failure instead of an open circuit. Maybe a hybrid would be a good way to go with a single DPST switch that makes use of his layout but with a single switch controlling both tubes- I think that's the way I might go.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Just got my (used) HD650's an hour ago.........very different from my trusty old K240M's SQ wise. 
 They only have 50 hours on 'em. They even smell good for cripes sake...lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My first set of good cans, er , great cans I mean !!

 Liking what I'm hearing from them. Way better bass than the K240M's in terms of wieght and articulation. These are good days indeed my friends 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Where's the 650 smile ?

 PS

 I'm really digging the 6AK5 Sylvania JHS (date '1953) tubes from Yen, Razor sharp 3D imaging, outstanding balance of detail and body. Cool. Now only 4 million more minutes to go until everything is settled in


----------



## webghost

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...and one pair of 62 ohm resistors ..... no drilling_

 

52 Ohm - not 62!

 i drilled two holes so i can move the switches (1st pic)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Based on what webghost is saying, it sounds like 1W should do the job. 5% is probably good enough too. I'm looking at 3W myself just to be absolutely sure, but there is no reason for it especially since webghost says it doesn't even get hot
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You might also want to consider 1% resistors. If I buy a bundle of them I'll usually get 5% or 10% since I can match them by hand and save money, but in this case I'll only be buying two so 1% seems worth the extra few cents. I don't know how much of a difference a 10% (one @+5%, other at -5% in the worst case) mismatch would make, but again I'm just playing it safe.

 I must say webghost's series idea sounds very good to me, I like the idea that it reverts to 120Ω in case of switch failure instead of an open circuit. Maybe a hybrid would be a good way to go with a single DPST switch that makes use of his layout but with a single switch controlling both tubes- I think that's the way I might go._

 

Sounds good dg......It might be a good suggestion for David and Sword at LD to add this functionality to the production MK III's. It certainly wouldn't add much to the final cost and would be a very worthwhile addition to the Mk III's bag of tricks.

 I agree that you might as well go for 1% tolerance. Some Dale or Vishay 1% metal film (might as well replace both resistors in the circuit with the upgraded variety) 1.5 + watters with a HD DPDT switch would cost what...6 bucks ? Peanuts. Do it dude


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webghost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_52 Ohm - not 62!

 i drilled two holes so i can move the switches (1st pic)_

 

Sorry webghost, what I meant by that was rather than putting two smaller value resistors in series (what you had on hand, which added up to 52 ohms) just use one 60 or 62 ohm wired in using your circuit solution. On = 122 or 120,124 ohm,off equals 60 or 62 depending on what's available in 1+watt 1 % tolerance metal films. Might as well change the stock resistor with a better one IMO.

 Sorry for any confusion this may have caused,

 Peete.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds good dg......It might be a good suggestion for David and Sword at LD to add this functionality to the production MK III's. It certainly wouldn't add much to the final cost and would be a very worthwhile addition to the Mk III's bag of tricks.

 I agree that you might as well go for 1% tolerance. Some Dale or Vishay 1% metal film (might as well replace both resistors in the circuit with the upgraded variety) 1.5 + watters with a HD DPDT switch would cost what...6 bucks ? Peanuts. Do it dude 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I definitely agree that LD should add that, especially since they list the PI's as compatible tubes- a bit misleading considering you have to re-solder the board!

 I already have a saved cart with Newark with all the parts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only 2 things are stopping me from pulling the trigger right now. 1-DPST slider switches are expensive from them (~$15), but I should look at DPDTs just in case. 2-I just ordered some jacks and heat shrink from them and shipping turned out to be $15 (you only find out shipping $$$ after they ship it), since I'm headed into the big city (Seattle) this weekend I'll look for an electronics shop there to maybe save a few bucks.

 I can't afford the golds right now (I can, but I shouldn't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but I might as well get the amp gold ready!

 EDIT: I just looked at DPDT switches, I can get them for $3, that's a lot cheaper than the DPSTs. Might as well get the DPDT and leave one path open to make it a DPST.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I definitely agree that LD should add that, especially since they list the PI's as compatible tubes- a bit misleading considering you have to re-solder the board!

 I already have a saved cart with Newark with all the parts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only 2 things are stopping me from pulling the trigger right now. 1-DPST slider switches are expensive from them (~$15), but I should look at DPDTs just in case. 2-I just ordered some jacks and heat shrink from them and shipping turned out to be $15 (you only find out shipping $$$ after they ship it), since I'm headed into the big city (Seattle) this weekend I'll look for an electronics shop there to maybe save a few bucks.

 I can't afford the golds right now (I can, but I shouldn't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but I might as well get the amp gold ready!_

 

Cool.....might as well see what you can find in Seattle. My parents live in Marysville WA......I usually visit once a year but haven't been out for the last 2 years. Love it in the Pac NW. GD expensive to live there + is the only drawback I can see, that and 50 inches of rain per year (ok maybe not that much).


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool.....might as well see what you can find in Seattle. My parents live in Marysville WA......I usually visit once a year but haven't been out for the last 2 years. Love it in the Pac NW. GD expensive to live there + is the only drawback I can see, that and 50 inches of rain per year (ok maybe not that much). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yea, the grayness is an acquired taste. I did my undergrad in Wisconsin where it was usually pretty sunny (but cold!) most of the time, relatively speaking, and I actually started to miss the rain and clouds
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I could do without the cost of living though, I'm getting ready to graduate so I've been looking in apartments around the Redmond area (~20 min east of Seattle) and a nice 2 bedroom w/ garage would set me back $1700/month! That's almost twice the price of an equivalent apartment in downtown Milwaukee when I looked there. I just read that a bunch of the local cities are in the top overvalued communities in the nation right now- not a great time to be fresh out of school with loans and entry level jobs


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea, the grayness is an acquired taste. I did my undergrad in Wisconsin where it was usually pretty sunny (but cold!) most of the time, relatively speaking, and I actually started to miss the rain and clouds
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I could do without the cost of living though, I'm getting ready to graduate so I've been looking in apartments around the Redmond area (~20 min east of Seattle) and a nice 2 bedroom w/ garage would set me back $1700/month! That's almost twice the price of an equivalent apartment in downtown Milwaukee when I looked there. I just read that a bunch of the local cities are in the top overvalued communities in the nation right now- not a great time to be fresh out of school with loans and entry level jobs
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ouch, 1700.00 a month ? 

 Add to that, car insurance,utilities,groceries,car payment,student loans,NOS tube habit,gas,parking for work,clothes,condoms (bulk barn is way to go here dude)...........yikes wheres the shotgun, aka the "Cobainerator ". Just kidding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What sq footage are we talking about here ?


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch, 1700.00 a month ? 

 Add to that, car insurance,utilities,groceries,car payment,student loans,NOS tube habit,gas,parking for work,clothes,condoms (bulk barn is way to go here dude)...........yikes wheres the shotgun, aka the "Cobainerator ". Just kidding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What sq footage are we talking about here ?_

 

It's 1250 sq.ft., pretty good size. I could definitely downgrade, but it was a nice clean, quiet place. Student loans will be bad, and gas could get up there since the job I'm looking at is ~30 miles away (crossing my fingers to see the VW diesel hybrid soon). Then there's that tube habit
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I still need a decent DAC, some Grados, a recable for the K701s... I wonder how I can use my body to make some money....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's 1250 sq.ft., pretty good size. I could definitely downgrade, but it was a nice clean, quiet place. Student loans will be bad, and gas could get up there since the job I'm looking at is ~30 miles away (crossing my fingers to see the VW diesel hybrid soon). Then there's that tube habit
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I still need a decent DAC, some Grados, a recable for the K701s... I wonder how I can use my body to make some money...._

 


 What DAC are you looking at ? I've been eyeballing the Lite audio DAC 60.


----------



## dgbiker1

I'm thinking a Zap-filtered Zhaolu if I get impatient, or Opus if I can save up (most likely this one- but looks to be ~1 year down the road). LD needs to get in the DAC biz, I want a DAC to match my amp!

 So do you have EH tubes yet or are you also just preparing? Any luck if you do have them?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking a Zap-filtered Zhaolu if I get impatient, or Opus if I can save up (most likely this one- but looks to be ~1 year down the road). LD needs to get in the DAC biz, I want a DAC to match my amp!

 So do you have EH tubes yet or are you also just preparing? Any luck if you do have them?_

 

By dumb luck the EH tubes I ordered from MD last Sat were b/o'd so I canceled the order. Not knowing the MkIII needed the mod to use them properly. I'll probably go ahead and get the parts anyway (in the near future) as using the 6H30Pi's is a realtively cheap way to get better SQ from my MKIII. 

 The zap filtered Zhaolu looks interesting. Was reading about it this week. It's a bit out of my budget at 600.00 bones unless I read that wrong !

 I'm partial to the Lite 60 since I already have a fairly extensive supply of NOS 6922/7308's from my current CDP and it just fits my budget,barely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I still have the Meixing (Ming Da) MC 7R tube pre-amp on the way, jeeze the CC is taking a beating this month. I need to sell some gear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You interested in an Adcom GFP 750 pre-amp ? ( Nelson Pass design ).


----------



## jpstereo

If anybody needs a pair of EH Gold 6H30Pi's. Let me know - I will be listing them shortly. I will not be doing the mods for my MKIII.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Oh I chatted with David about that very thing last week( a LD DAC ). Unless he was shining me on. I don't think he was though, he seemed genuinely enthusiastic about the idea.
 Maybe we'll be surprised come spring '09 ?


 EDIT: Toned it down a little. I'm sure many LD owners have expressed interest in a LD DAC.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh I chatted with David about that very thing last week quite extensively ( a LD DAC ). They are considering a tube DAC as we speak. I don't know the timetable. Give em a year at least....to be safe. Unless he was shining me on. I don't think he was though, he seemed genuinely enthusiastic about the idea.
 Maybe we'll be surprised come this fall ? Sure would be nice._

 

Holy Cow! I was completely joking
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That would be interesting, but I think I would want a tube DAC as a second DAC after I get a SS DAC- an Opus and a tube DAC would be great. But knowing LD, I could probably afford the tube DAC right now and complement it w/ an Opus down the road.

 JPStereo: I might be able to convince myself to buy them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are they a matched pair?


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy Cow! I was completely joking
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That would be interesting, but I think I would want a tube DAC as a second DAC after I get a SS DAC- an Opus and a tube DAC would be great. But knowing LD, I could probably afford the tube DAC right now and complement it w/ an Opus down the road.

 JPStereo: I might be able to convince myself to buy them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are they a matched pair?_

 

No they are not but I'm not sure that matching matters much with new production tubes. In any case, if interested PM me!


----------



## Ghoul

hello all, i've been a long time lurker here and Head-fi has changed my whole outlook on the way I listen to music. 

 I've recently purchased and just received my MK III, and unfortunately went ahead and got some 6h30's before seeing that they aren't compatible. If anyone is interested in taking these off my hands let me know. On the brighter side I'm really enjoying the Mk III, being my first tube amp/desktop amp period I didnt know what to expect. It's been a upgrade on all fronts compared to the other amps I have (consisting of all portable amps) ranging from Xin mini IV, go-vibe 6, and corda move. I'm still on the stock tubes but do have some nos glass waiting for their turn.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I'm really digging the 6AK5 Sylvania JHS (date '1953) tubes from Yen, Razor sharp 3D imaging, outstanding balance of detail and body. Cool. Now only 4 million more minutes to go until everything is settled in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Have you tried the Sylvania Gold Brand 6AK5's?


----------



## webghost

If anybody wants so sell his 6H30 tubes - make me an offer.
 (if shipping to Austria and paypal will be ok)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried the Sylvania Gold Brand 6AK5's? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have a set also. PP is right on the money with how they sound. Very, very nice!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webghost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_52 Ohm - not 62!

 i drilled two holes so i can move the switches (1st pic)_

 

I have a question. Let's say you never want to go back to 6H6N's. Can you recommend a resistor replacement? Thanks!


----------



## webghost

yes, put out the 68R and mount a 120R - than you can only use 6H30 types


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webghost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, put out the 68R and mount a 120R - than you can only use 6H30 types_

 

Thanks! Would these do the trick? : Parts Express:120 Ohm 1W Flameproof Resistor 10 Pcs.


----------



## webghost

yes, i think they are ok. 1W will be more than enough. In the MK IVse is also a very small (120R) cathode resistor.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webghost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, i think they are ok. 1W will be more than enough. In the MK IVse is also a very small (120R) cathode resistor._

 

Thanks, I was pretty sure I had seen the ones inside the MKIVse the last time I was "peaking" around inside.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Placed the order this afternoon, so I hope to get them later next week. I'm still on the fence as to whether to do a switch or just replace them. I had actually used my 6H30's (all three types) long enough to break them in, and they really did sound much better to me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't know if I'd want to go back to the 6H6N's, so I may have to locate the resistors to replace in the MKII as well. I already think I know where they are, but if you happen to know, please advise. Thanks for all your help!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! Would these do the trick? : Parts Express:120 Ohm 1W Flameproof Resistor 10 Pcs._

 


 Don't you just love partsexpress.......I buy all kinds of stuff from them. Great place to deal with !!

 Their speaker kits are fantastic values and great fun to build. I use a set of Dayton BR 1S speakers on my comp desktop (it's a big desktop). For a 160 bucks a pair/kit they are an amazing speaker. 

 Boy I am down an out today....just able to sit at the comp 5 minutes ago. 

 Pench how are you feeling today ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried the Sylvania Gold Brand 6AK5's? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Not yet DOA. Saw a pair the other day on Yens site (I think). If they are better versions than the ones I have then by all means they are worth picking up.


----------



## Penchum

Ahhhh, you've hit the "no power to poop" stage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm doing better, and my head has cleared up, but my brain is not engaged very well. More sleep will fix that. You have 2-3 more days to go I think. So sorry PP.

 Can someone tell me what in the devil these tubes are and are they really 6AK5/5654 compatible? I'm so curious! TUNG-SOL TS-5654 / 6AK5W 322NT7 MATCH PAIR TUBE NOS USA - eBay (item 170100612149 end time Apr-04-08 16:09:00 PDT)

 Might look great with BullPlugs in!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ghoul* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hello all, i've been a long time lurker here and Head-fi has changed my whole outlook on the way I listen to music. 

 I've recently purchased and just received my MK III, and unfortunately went ahead and got some 6h30's before seeing that they aren't compatible. If anyone is interested in taking these off my hands let me know. On the brighter side I'm really enjoying the Mk III, being my first tube amp/desktop amp period I didnt know what to expect. It's been a upgrade on all fronts compared to the other amps I have (consisting of all portable amps) ranging from Xin mini IV, go-vibe 6, and corda move. I'm still on the stock tubes but do have some nos glass waiting for their turn._

 


 Cool Ghoul 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, what cans are you using with it ? The Mk III is pretty darn good for the money. I'm loving mine (especially when used as a preamp in my main system)! Sounds like you have the portable market cornered 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Bring your wallet and a case of beer


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool Ghoul 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, what cans are you using with it ? The Mk III is pretty darn good for the money. I'm loving mine (especially when used as a preamp in my main system)! Sounds like you have the portable market cornered 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Bring your wallet and a case of beer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Can he use headphones with a noggin like that?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahhhh, you've hit the "no power to poop" stage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm doing better, and my head has cleared up, but my brain is not engaged very well. More sleep will fix that. You have 2-3 more days to go I think. So sorry PP.

 Can someone tell me what in the devil these tubes are and are they really 6AK5/5654 compatible? I'm so curious! TUNG-SOL TS-5654 / 6AK5W 322NT7 MATCH PAIR TUBE NOS USA - eBay (item 170100612149 end time Apr-04-08 16:09:00 PDT)

 Might look great with BullPlugs in! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I was afraid of that. I've been dragging my arse around all day like it was a bag of rocks. Head feels like a set of water wings filled with cement. Thanks for the sympathy Pench. Glad your getting better. I should be fine by Monday...fingers crossed.

 Those look pretty damn big for 6AK5's, then again what do I know. Hopefully someone will chime in on these. Tung-Sols though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can understand your interest. Did you get a set of TS 403B's from Yen Pench ?

 No doubt !!

 Listening to "Dead Can Dance" at the moment.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can he use headphones with a noggin like that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Senn 580/600/650's are out......AKG's fit big ...uh...oblong melons ( I should know I have one.....
















 one set of AKG's that is) Hehe.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was afraid of that. I've been dragging my arse around all day like it was a bag of rocks. Head feels like a set of water wings filled with cement. Thanks for the sympathy Pench. Glad your getting better. I should be fine by Monday...fingers crossed.

 Those look pretty damn big for 6AK5's, then again what do I know. Hopefully someone will chime in on these. Tung-Sols though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can understand your interest. Did you get a set of TS 403B's from Yen Pench ?

 No doubt !!

 Listening to "Dead Can Dance" at the moment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was going too, then decided to pick up a set of the Sylvania 5654 Golds from him. WOW! I've only tried them in my MKIVse, to burn in, but later tonight, I'm going to put them in my MKIII and give it a go. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are awesome in the extreme.

 Those tall TS-5654's have so much plate room, and big elements and so on, I really would like to know if anyone has ever tried a set before. I bet they sound really different, like a 5687 or something.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahhhh, you've hit the "no power to poop" stage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm doing better, and my head has cleared up, but my brain is not engaged very well. More sleep will fix that. You have 2-3 more days to go I think. So sorry PP.

 Can someone tell me what in the devil these tubes are and are they really 6AK5/5654 compatible? I'm so curious! TUNG-SOL TS-5654 / 6AK5W 322NT7 MATCH PAIR TUBE NOS USA - eBay (item 170100612149 end time Apr-04-08 16:09:00 PDT)

 Might look great with BullPlugs in! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Something looks wrong. 5654's don't have 9 pins...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Something looks wrong. 5654's don't have 9 pins..._

 

It's a bad pic, but if the gap is on the back slightly right side, then it looks like 7 pins?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

So it's safe to say you like them ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just about anything made by Tung-Sol is a worthwhile investment where SQ and rugged construction is concerned IMO. I've never been let down by that brand,current production aren't bad but nowhere near as close as NOS.

 If I had to live with 2 tubes, one would be a Tung-Sol and the other a RCA triple mica black plate.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a bad pic, but if the gap is on the back slightly right side, then it looks like 7 pins?_

 

I've seen a pic of ts5654b's They look like any EF95 in size.

 You can count 8 pins in the pic, and one more looks to be blocked.

 The logo is not TS like. Wrong pic in the listing is all.

 BTW, check partsconnexion tube section. I think I saw TS 5654's for like $4 each.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

No way E...4 $ each ? Whats the catch (55.00 for shipping ) ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just kidding....how you doing E ?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've seen a pic of ts5654b's They look like any EF95 in size.

 You can count 8 pins in the pic, and one more looks to be blocked.

 The logo is not TS like. Wrong pic in the listing is all.

 BTW, check partsconnexion tube section. I think I saw TS 5654's for like $4 each._

 

Good eye E, mine suck.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll have to look at parts conneXion and see what's what. I really don't need any right now, because my quad of old TS 6AK5's came today. I've been burning in a set. The sound really nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been rolling more tubes in and out of the MKIII, to finalize that part of the review. I like it's sound with either EF95s or EF92s. My old M8161's sound pretty nice in there! One heck of a machine, no doubt.


----------



## ethebull

correction, $3.50 ea

 OS- 67200- 42 Tungsol JTL 6AK5W $3.50 ea CV2877 11 Pentode 7 pin 

http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/OSTubes.html

 I'z fine


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_correction, $3.50 ea

 OS- 67200- 42 Tungsol JTL 6AK5W $3.50 ea CV2877 11 Pentode 7 pin 

http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/OSTubes.html

 I'z fine_

 


 Wow....2 for less than 10 bucks. This guy lives about 100 klm's from me. I should drop in with a c note and clean him out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Those prices are for "used" tubes. Now it's makes sense. NOS new the prices are still pretty good...Going to get some JAN & RCA 5751's for my guitar amps.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

On heavily oxidized pins is it worthwhile to use a product such as Caig Deoxit or is this just gilding the lily ? I can see the reason for better electrical contact....

 I have Caig ProGold that I use on IC's,speaker jacks,spade lugs etc. Just wondered if anyone treated the pins on their NOS glass and if it made any difference.


----------



## Ghoul

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool Ghoul 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, what cans are you using with it ? The Mk III is pretty darn good for the money. I'm loving mine (especially when used as a preamp in my main system)! Sounds like you have the portable market cornered 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Bring your wallet and a case of beer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hah! yea I got a wide range of portables. But after trying a desktop amp I don't think I'll be in the market for any portables for a long while. My current canz are the Grado sr225. Started out in IEM's with the ety er6 then to the Shure E5c. Then got curious in hearing what full sized canz can bring to the table. After researching and reading up on all the different canz for my musical preference, I ended up in the grado camp. Saw the sr60 as the introductory model and basically said why settle for introductory; let's see what grado has to offer!!! Couldnt be happier, and the Mk III fleshes out the grado sig while improving on some of its earlier shortcomings I heard on portables. 

 Now on to some tube rolling brain picking. I currently am using the stock tubes but do have the following tubes waiting in the wings: RCA black plate 6ak5, Sylvania black plate 5654, Russian 6zh1p, and Mullard EF 92. Which of these would give the best full bodied bass? I've read through this thread and know these are all good tubes in their own respects. Man I can't believe how much of an improvement a tube amp has made. Definitely a keeper. Kudos to all at Little Dot.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On heavily oxidized pins is it worthwhile to use a product such as Caig Deoxit or is this just gilding the lily ? I can see the reason for better electrical contact....

 I have Caig ProGold that I use on IC's,speaker jacks,spade lugs etc. Just wondered if anyone treated the pins on their NOS glass and if it made any difference._

 

I use Deoxit 5 to clean them, and Deoxit Gold to treat them. Seems to do a nice job, and I don't suffer the nasty noises anymore, so I think it's worth it.


----------



## ethebull

The really badly tarnished pins get Deoxit and OOO steel wool rub downs. 

 I use Silclear on the pins

Mapleshade Audio Products - SilClear

 You've got to use it very sparingly or it can get messy.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'm amongst others of like mind then, every time I suggest treating connections around here (in the boonies) I'm looked upon as a bit of a nutcase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How could cleaning contacts and pins possibly make a difference is the common refrain.....I don't know but it seems to work...I say. Although if you guys saw how many contacts I have to treat you might say ....forget that I have better things to do. I sometimes wonder if they are right.....knowing that they aren't, simply because I'm thinking the whole time I'm doing this job....maybe I am a little tight in the sphincter about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 LOL oh well, My name is Peete and I have an oxidation problem


----------



## RogerB

Guys, this week I received my Russian 6ZHIP-EV driver tubes from Ebayer Anthony Welsh that Penchum and others have spoken highly of.

 I have about 30 hours on them and let me tell you these are fantastic tubes!!!! They may well be my favorite driver tube they are so good.

 I notice the price has gone up and will probably continue to climb as more people find out about them. 

 Do yourself a favor and get some of these tubes. These are the ones with the grooves down the sides that Penchum was referring to. They are awesome tubes!!!!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys, this week I received my Russian 6ZHIP-EV driver tubes from Ebayer Anthony Welsh that Penchum and others have spoken highly of.

 I have about 30 hours on them and let me tell you these are fantastic tubes!!!! They may well be my favorite driver tube they are so good.

 I notice the price has gone up and will probably continue to climb as more people find out about them. 

 Do yourself a favor and get some of these tubes. These are the ones with the grooves down the sides that Penchum was referring to. They are awesome tubes!!!!!_

 


 I concur Roger. As soon as Pench raved about these I ordered a lot of 8 from Tony. Using a set right now to finish burning in my MK III and HP's. They do sound very good. Not as good as the syl 6AK5's I had in there but pretty damn good. They seem to have a very even response from 40 hz to 8.5k with a slight roll off at either extreme. Not quite as 3D as the Syl's but equally good imaging. Sins of omission that can be easily overlooked considering the price.
 A very pleasant midrange, not brash like most Russian tubes tend to be. 
 Quite a find....thanks to Pench for the heads up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 These tubes are so rugged they'll most likely outlive me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What are you listening to right now Roger ? I have Dream Theater-Live at Budokan spinning at the moment (on the main system).


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys, this week I received my Russian 6ZHIP-EV driver tubes from Ebayer Anthony Welsh that Penchum and others have spoken highly of.

 I have about 30 hours on them and let me tell you these are fantastic tubes!!!! They may well be my favorite driver tube they are so good.

 I notice the price has gone up and will probably continue to climb as more people find out about them. 

 Do yourself a favor and get some of these tubes. These are the ones with the grooves down the sides that Penchum was referring to. They are awesome tubes!!!!!_

 

100% agree Roger. Also, to keep costs down (our way) maybe some of the folks who bought 10, could sell a couple pair at cost plus shipping to others in need?? Just a thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was having a little fun with my MKIVse and well, I posted what happened here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post3945961

 In two of my amps, these 6ZHIP-EV driver tubes have become the default daily driver tubes. I keep them in there all the time and I swap out to different tubes when I want/need too.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_100% agree Roger. Also, to keep costs down (our way) maybe some of the folks who bought 10, could sell a couple pair at cost plus shipping to others in need?? Just a thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was having a little fun with my MKIVse and well, I posted what happened here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post3945961

 In two of my amps, these 6ZHIP-EV driver tubes have become the default daily driver tubes. I keep them in there all the time and I swap out to different tubes when I want/need too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Sounds good...help a brother in need...( thanks E !!!). Seems Anthony has already sold about 45 tubes to the members of the Head Fi LD tube rock & rollers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Off to read all about it P !!!

 These (6ZHIP-EV) tubes are better baseline's than the stock GE's that come with MK III.


----------



## RogerB

Seems everyone is raving about the Syl Gold EF95's. Are they worth the price guys??? Yen has a matched pair that I believe the bidding starts at $48.

 I don't mind paying the price if they are indeed that good. (Shut up wallet!!!)

 Can you guys comment on price/value ratio??


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I think there worth it. 50 bucks for a matched set of Nirvana. Ok maybe a bit of an exaggeration...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 great tubes IMO.

 You could do worse for more money...


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

I've been watching tubes for a while and the Gold Brands (being TOTL from Sylvania) usually go for a lot more than $24 per tube, I'd say it's a good deal.


----------



## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 What are you listening to right now Roger ? I have Dream Theater-Live at Budokan spinning at the moment (on the main system)._

 

Hey PP, I've been listening to a lot of cd's this evening. Stones, Let It Bleed (sacd), Sinatra, Greatest Love Songs, & The Essential Clash.

 Next up is some Alison Krauss & US.

 Good stuff..........


----------



## Ghoul

hey all, how long would you say the typical burn in for the driver tubes would be? How about the amp in general for that matter? Just switched out the stock tubes for the russian 6zh1p's. Could already tell a difference off the bat. Compared to the russian tubes the stocks were a lil muddy sounding in the bass region, not too tight sounding. Tube rolling is really fun, can't wait to see what other nos tubes have to offer.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ghoul* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey all, how long would you say the typical burn in for the driver tubes would be? How about the amp in general for that matter? Just switched out the stock tubes for the russian 6zh1p's. Could already tell a difference off the bat. Compared to the russian tubes the stocks were a lil muddy sounding in the bass region, not too tight sounding. Tube rolling is really fun, can't wait to see what other nos tubes have to offer._

 

NOS EF95's seem to take 35-50 hours total. NOS EF92's take a little longer, maybe 45-60 hours. The MKIII I just burned-in took close to 100 hours total, running 6 hour sessions, cooling down, the back up for another 6 hours and so on, using nothing but music. I guess those nice Rubicon caps take some time to mature.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems everyone is raving about the Syl Gold EF95's. Are they worth the price guys??? Yen has a matched pair that I believe the bidding starts at $48.

 I don't mind paying the price if they are indeed that good. (Shut up wallet!!!)

 Can you guys comment on price/value ratio??_

 

I scored a set of Hytron EF95s dated 1943, burned them in and thought they were the best I have ever heard...until I got the Sylvania Gold 5654's. They just blew away the Hytrons in every aspect, and the sound stage is incredible with Golds!

 I'll pick one small music item to give you an idea of how they are better. Cymbal crashes and rides have the correct "ring" to them, that most tubes miss, or combine for one sound. You can even tell if the drummer has a nylon tip or wooden tip on his drum sticks!!

 This kind of "detail" is worth more than the asking price IMHO. It will save you from buying 3 more pairs at $28-30 looking for the same detail.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I scored a set of Hytron EF95s dated 1943, burned them in and thought they were the best I have ever heard...until I got the Sylvania Gold 5654's. They just blew away the Hytrons in every aspect, and the sound stage is incredible with Golds!

 I'll pick one small music item to give you an idea of how they are better. Cymbal crashes and rides have the correct "ring" to them, that most tubes miss, or combine for one sound. You can even tell if the drummer has a nylon tip or wooden tip on his drum sticks!!

 This kind of "detail" is worth more than the asking price IMHO. It will save you from buying 3 more pairs at $28-30 looking for the same detail. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

QFT.


----------



## LordofDoom

MK III arrived today. Wonderful little thing, and I've just begun the burn in...


----------



## ethebull

Got a pair of RCA JRC 6AK5's today. Actually, I got three, for $.99 + shipping on eBay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 These are NOS in sealed boxes, dated 1952.

 Very nice early impression.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LordofDoom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MK III arrived today. Wonderful little thing, and I've just begun the burn in..._

 

Congratulations! They are cool aren't they!


----------



## dgbiker1

Boy, you guys will be disappointed with me. As I mentioned earlier I was in Seattle this past weekend and I figured I would pick up some parts to mod my MKIII as Webghost had described to accept some EH Gold power tubes. I found out about a whole area called "Hi-Fi Row" (most financially dangerous district 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), and I found a shop that sold the Electro Harmonix Golds. I was going to buy them when my girlfriend offered to pay $150 of the price of some Grado SR225s as a belated Valentine's present (I've been missing my old ones). I was faced with the decision of paying ~$50 for SR225s or EH Golds. Sorry gents, I chose the SR225s.

 On the upside I did find the resistors and switch I need to get my MKIII ready for the Golds down the road


----------



## Trapper32

Just wondering about the EF91 compatibility issue....Read where Little Dot has not been able to re-create the issue in question....Has anyone on Head-fi been able to use the EF91's without problems??


----------



## ethebull

I haven't kept score, but from reports here, I'd say it's roughly 50/50.

 If you have some already or can get some on the cheap, give'em a try. At low volume they shouldn't hurt anything. If you generally prefer fairly loud listening with bassy music, your chances of success are low. IME, YMMV


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering about the EF91 compatibility issue....Read where Little Dot has not been able to re-create the issue in question....Has anyone on Head-fi been able to use the EF91's without problems??_

 

From LD's forums it sounds like Mullard EF91s work well with the MKIII.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From LD's forums it sounds like Mullard EF91s work well with the MKIII._

 

Ya, that whole EF91 issue is a real anatomy scratcher for sure. If I was wondering whether or not to try some EF91's, I would consider two things first. First, the problems some have reported with distortion, and two, I would consider the rise in temperature they produce.

 They do have a nice sound, so they are hard to ignore. A similar sound can be achieved by using EF92's like the 6CQ6 and M8161. It might be "safer" to try the EF92's instead. IMHO, YMMV.

 Just food for thought.


----------



## hendry

hi, my LD MKIII arrived, i like warm character, upfront mid, what tube i must buy? thanks before


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hendry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi, my LD MKIII arrived, i like warm character, upfront mid, what tube i must buy? thanks before_

 

Try the Mullard M8161 for a solid bass, CV131 or United EF92 for a more balanced sound with nice mids. People quite like the Amperex 5654 as well.


----------



## hendry

i dont understand about jumper on in EF92 or off if use EF95, can you give me some picture or link to exlplain this? how about the charachter of RCA 5654/6AK5 or GE 6AK5 ?


----------



## RogerB

I've got a matched pair of Sylvannia Gold 5654's coming and am very excited to hear them due to the ravings by several in this thread!

 Will report back my impressions once they are burned in.

 Penchum, when do you anticipate your MKIII review will be completed???? I sure am enjoying mine! As a matter of fact, after owning a tube amp I can honestly say I will never be without one again!!! The tube rolling makes a tube amp so much more "personnal" and "involving" that a SS. Just my opinion of course.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got a matched pair of Sylvannia Gold 5654's coming and am very excited to hear them due to the ravings by several in this thread!

 Will report back my impressions once they are burned in.

 Penchum, when do you anticipate your MKIII review will be completed???? I sure am enjoying mine! As a matter of fact, after owning a tube amp I can honestly say I will never be without one again!!! The tube rolling makes a tube amp so much more "personnal" and "involving" that a SS. Just my opinion of course._

 

Hi Roger,
 I've had some unanticipated delays and I'm trying to work around them. It won't be much longer...I hope.


----------



## edvardd

delay no more


----------



## Olev

Ok guys, what am I doing wrong. I have m-audio revo 7.1 as source and now I've tried these tubes:
 Mullard M8100
 Soviet 6ZH1P
 Tung Sol 403B
 Mullard 6CQ6/CV131

 I'm using Sennheiser HD 650 headphones and MFSL/W-German Targets/DCC/early Japanese releases/etc CD sources, and I can't differentiate the tubes. They all sound the same - good. What should I be listening for? Seems like I've just spent a lot of money for nothing, should have just setteled for the ones that were on in the first place.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok guys, what am I doing wrong. I have m-audio revo 7.1 as source and now I've tried these tubes:
 Mullard M8100
 Soviet 6ZH1P
 Tung Sol 403B
 Mullard 6CQ6/CV131

 I'm using Sennheiser HD 650 headphones and MFSL/W-German Targets/DCC/early Japanese releases/etc CD sources, and I can't differentiate the tubes. They all sound the same - good. What should I be listening for? Seems like I've just spent a lot of money for nothing, should have just setteled for the ones that were on in the first place._

 

Tubes do sound different, but it’s not night and day differences. Have you been involved in higher performance audio for any length of time? It takes some experience for most everyone to elevate their sensitivities, and though each of us might determine a favorite tube signature different from the next guy, there has been fairly consistent descriptions from many Head-Fi’ers as to how the tubes you have perform. 

 It looks like your amp is only a couple weeks old. On average, it will take close to 200 hours of play time for the amp components to fully mature and settle in, and each set of tubes needs 50 hours of burn in time as well. 

 Take some time, relax and enjoy the gear for a while, then roll in the variety of tubes and report back. 

 No worries,

 E


----------



## Olev

Well yes I've had it for a week, so it probably needs more burnin (as do all the tubes). Maybe I should try it with one channel using one kind and the other using another tube? Of course both being EF95 and not using one channel with jumper installed and 6CQ6 tube. Or is that bad for the amp (power supply etc worries)?


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe I should try it with one channel using one kind and the other using another tube? Of course both being EF95 and not using one channel with jumper installed and 6CQ6 tube. Or is that bad for the amp (power supply etc worries)?_

 

Tubes are a bit like shoes. You need to try them in pairs.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok guys, what am I doing wrong. I have m-audio revo 7.1 as source and now I've tried these tubes:
 Mullard M8100
 Soviet 6ZH1P
 Tung Sol 403B
 Mullard 6CQ6/CV131

 I'm using Sennheiser HD 650 headphones and MFSL/W-German Targets/DCC/early Japanese releases/etc CD sources, and I can't differentiate the tubes. They all sound the same - good. What should I be listening for? Seems like I've just spent a lot of money for nothing, should have just setteled for the ones that were on in the first place._

 

E is correct. I recommend putting the stock tubes in and run her until done. Also, if your HD-650's are new, they too need several hundred hours before they "open up". Hang in there, be patient with your new gear and do those hours. The difference between start and finish is almost startling!


----------



## ethebull

Ah, a new millennium! Pench has 2000 posts!


----------



## Bisounours

I received a MK III today.
 But I have a problem when I met the highest volume.
 The volume decreases slightly, it does not ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (setting gain: 10)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bisounours* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received a MK III today.
 But I have a problem when I met the highest volume.
 The volume decreases slightly, it does not ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (setting gain: 10)_

 

Could you give more details about this? I think I am missing your meaning. Thanks!


----------



## dr dougie

Hi Little Dotters. My Mk III is almost delivered! I will burn in with stock tubes but am on the lookout for tubes to roll later. I see you can use 6H30 driver tubes with a resistor change. This leads me to wonder how close 6922s would be as driver alternatives. Can anyone comment?


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr dougie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Little Dotters. My Mk III is almost delivered! I will burn in with stock tubes but am on the lookout for tubes to roll later. I see you can use 6H30 driver tubes with a resistor change. This leads me to wonder how close 6922s would be as driver alternatives. Can anyone comment?_

 

I've also been thinking about driver tube adapters a-la ethebull's power tube adapters. Could be interesting


----------



## dgbiker1

Penchum-
 Did you perform that power tube resistor upgrade on your MKIII? 
 I am just wondering if EF91 tubes might work better (at all) with the 6H30Pi and new resistors? I'm not giving up on that sound! I'd be happy to send you my Telefunkens if it would be of any help.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum-
 Did you perform that power tube resistor upgrade on your MKIII? 
 I am just wondering if EF91 tubes might work better (at all) with the 6H30Pi and new resistors? I'm not giving up on that sound! I'd be happy to send you my Telefunkens if it would be of any help._

 

Yepper! I did the resistor change on my MKIII and MKII. Funny thing is, I never had the EF91 problems that you folks with the K701s did. I have tried using the EF91s after the resistor mod, and still no problems detected (with Senn phones). I can't help but think that the K701s different demands on the amp, has something to do with the problems detected using the EF91 driver tube. I can't test this, for lack of owning K701s.

 As far as the mod goes, I like the sound of the 6H30PI tubes much more than the 6H6N-PI tubes. It is only a preference thing. I don't think it would solve any of those EF91 issues. Maybe someone who had the EF91 problem could barrow a set of HD-650s from a friend and find out of the EF91 problems were isolated to K701 headphones??


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr dougie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Little Dotters. My Mk III is almost delivered! I will burn in with stock tubes but am on the lookout for tubes to roll later. I see you can use 6H30 driver tubes with a resistor change. This leads me to wonder how close 6922s would be as driver alternatives. Can anyone comment?_

 

It is my very weak understanding (I havent had time to research this) that the 6922's are not compatible with the 6H30PI tubes. How far from compatible, I just don't know, but I have seen the warnings posted stating that they are not compatible.

 Probably the best approach is to see how much you like the 6H6NPI setup after the MKIII has matured. Most will find they do a fantastic job and doing a mod isn't really necessary.

 For the rest of us, it can be a one way ticket. If you do the resistor change (no switch installed), you can't go back and use the 6H6NPI tubes. I decided to do the resistor change and not install a switch for one reason; I liked the 6H30IP sound better with all of my music, so being able to switch back would never get used.


----------



## dr dougie

First off, thanks to David for excellent communication and my Little Dot 3 arrived suprisingly fast and in good shape! It's been a long time since I've had tubes around and it's nice to see that glow again.

 I have about 60 hours of burnin on the little guy and while the sound is promising and stock tubes are ok they have pretty flabby bass (kind of usual with tubes eh?) and the soundstage is quite small with vocal soundstage really narrow.

 Unlike some of you tubies I would rather not roll hundreds of tubes(!) and have a list of all the favorites I've seen in these threads but are there any someone could specifically recommend as having the best soundstage while tightening up the bass? I am happy to make any jumper, resistor and even bullhead changes as needed. Thanks for any help!

 And thanks Penchum. I looked into 6922 tubes also and it does seem like they'd be dicey even though they have the same pin layout, and are probably not an improvement over the 6H30 anyway.


----------



## YtseJamer

I have also the distortion problem with the Telefunken EF91 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (With my Grado RS-1 and my ALO-780s)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yepper! I did the resistor change on my MKIII and MKII. Funny thing is, I never had the EF91 problems that you folks with the K701s did. I have tried using the EF91s after the resistor mod, and still no problems detected (with Senn phones). I can't help but think that the K701s different demands on the amp, has something to do with the problems detected using the EF91 driver tube. I can't test this, for lack of owning K701s.

 As far as the mod goes, I like the sound of the 6H30PI tubes much more than the 6H6N-PI tubes. It is only a preference thing. I don't think it would solve any of those EF91 issues. Maybe someone who had the EF91 problem could barrow a set of HD-650s from a friend and find out of the EF91 problems were isolated to K701 headphones??_


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr dougie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First off, thanks to David for excellent communication and my Little Dot 3 arrived suprisingly fast and in good shape! It's been a long time since I've had tubes around and it's nice to see that glow again.

 I have about 60 hours of burnin on the little guy and while the sound is promising and stock tubes are ok they have pretty flabby bass (kind of usual with tubes eh?) and the soundstage is quite small with vocal soundstage really narrow.

 Unlike some of you tubies I would rather not roll hundreds of tubes(!) and have a list of all the favorites I've seen in these threads but are there any someone could specifically recommend as having the best soundstage while tightening up the bass? I am happy to make any jumper, resistor and even bullhead changes as needed. Thanks for any help!

 And thanks Penchum. I looked into 6922 tubes also and it does seem like they'd be dicey even though they have the same pin layout, and are probably not an improvement over the 6H30 anyway._

 

No problem. Your MKIII has a ways to go yet. The bass will tighten up and the higher end will extend some. The sound stage will also improve but will be limited by the stock driver tubes. You'll be able to tell when you hit the "maturity" level. It will most likely be around 100-120 hours. At that point, you'll see why the stock driver tubes are "ok" but not much more than that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would highly recommend purchasing the Sylvania 5654/6AK5's with black plates and round getter, a matched pair is preferred, but not necessary. These are inexpensive compared to the GB-5654 Gold Brand Sylvania's and the sound differences seem to be small. The sound stage is reported to be amazing and extremely 3D, so this would seem to fit your needs well. I have a pair of these coming to compare with my GB's, so I'll be able to post the differences after burn-in. The Sylvania's will give you the most quality changes for the buck. Ethebull rates these as "top notch" and I trust his ears/judgment like my own. There are some really nice tubes in the EF92 family, but they usually extract a higher price for their "more tube like sound".
 Have a good one!!


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe someone who had the EF91 problem could barrow a set of HD-650s from a friend and find out of the EF91 problems were isolated to K701 headphones??_

 

I've also tried it with my SR225s and get the same problem. One thing I'm beginning to wonder about is whether the tubes are fakes. It's my understanding that Telefunken tubes should have a diamond on the bottom inside the ring of pins, but mine have a W. I'm not sure if the diamond was applicable to all Telefunken tubes, but it's a possibility.


----------



## oatmeal769

I just bought a set of 1940's (?) 5654 Tung-Sol's on ebay. Does anyone have experience with these? I think they're probably similar to 5654 Sylvanias...
 I'm in the same boat, I had to return my MKIII due to shipping damage. I'd rather just burn in the best overall quality tubes instead of waiting.
 I like deep tight, and expansive bass, but not floppy. Accurate midrange and shimmering but not sibilant highs. Will my new Tung-Sol's work for this, or do I want Mullard?

 Basically, I want the amp to sound best with the multitude of different styles I listen to - From accoustic jazz and classical, to death metal and electronica/Hip-Hop


----------



## YtseJamer

Here's the reply that I had from yen1233 about the distortion problem with the Telefunken EF91 :

 "Hi Patrick, the Telefunken EF91 are NOS tubes and will need some burn-in for its sound to mature, the distortion you're hearing is normal for all EF91 tubes and typically goes away after ten to twenty hours of operation. Please make sure that your source volume is set to max, doing this will decrease the level of distortion overall" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've also tried it with my SR225s and get the same problem. One thing I'm beginning to wonder about is whether the tubes are fakes. It's my understanding that Telefunken tubes should have a diamond on the bottom inside the ring of pins, but mine have a W. I'm not sure if the diamond was applicable to all Telefunken tubes, but it's a possibility._


----------



## Trapper32

I've got about 100 hours on a set of GE 5 star 5654/6ak5's and the soundstage with them is outstanding....especially so the depth...very 3d like...a very detailed tube with great highs, luscious mids and tight bass...Supposedly hand-picked by GE, they are a steal on eBay right now...usually going for $1 to $3 a tube...right now they're my favorite tube in the MK III 

 but

 those sylvanias that Ethebull and Penchum mentioned arrived today and they are very very promising...with only a few hours on them they already sound very nice...after they're broken in they may dethrone those 5 stars...Will look forward to Penchum's comparison with them against the Golds...


----------



## ethebull

I have a set of International EF91's. Penchum sent them to me and he has tried them with no problems using all of his Senn's. They play ok at modest volume, but as soon as there is heavy bass or a surge in dynamics, they distort on my K701's as well as when I use i-buds. I think it has to do with efficiency and volume/bass content. It's not like they don't work period, it's just that they are limited. To a degree I find unexceptable.

 Trapper, did you send P a set of WB's to try? I continue to enjoy the hell out of them. To describe the sound is a challenge. They have such a wonderful integration of the full spectrum. Nothing highlighted, - under-done or over-done, terrific sound stage and vocals... They just get-er-done!


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's the reply that I had from yen1233 about the distortion problem with the Telefunken EF91 :

 "Hi Patrick, the Telefunken EF91 are NOS tubes and will need some burn-in for its sound to mature, the distortion you're hearing is normal for all EF91 tubes and typically goes away after ten to twenty hours of operation. Please make sure that your source volume is set to max, doing this will decrease the level of distortion overall" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Interesting... I only had about 4 hours (max) on mine before I gave up. Maybe I'll keep burning them in to see if I can burn out the distortion
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope it works, those tubes have the best sound of my 3 sets IMO.


----------



## dan_can

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a set of International EF91's. Penchum sent them to me and he has tried them with no problems using all of his Senn's. They play ok at modest volume, but as soon as there is heavy bass or a surge in dynamics, they distort on my K701's as well as when I use i-buds. I think it has to do with efficiency and volume/bass content. It's not like they don't work period, it's just that they are limited. To a degree I find unexceptable.

 Trapper, did you send P a set of WB's to try? I continue to enjoy the hell out of them. To describe the sound is a challenge. They have such a wonderful integration of the full spectrum. Nothing highlighted, - under-done or over-done, terrific sound stage and vocals... They just get-er-done!_

 

Yes, Sylvania 6ak5 WB is my favorite. They look exactly like the Gold Brand without gold pins. I think they even sound better than Gold Brand out of box. I didn't bother burning in my Gold Brand to do further AB'ing since I just love those WBs. Unfortunately my MkIV SE is on the way to David for repair. I was trying to locate more WBs, no luck. WE 403B is anther great choice. I don't really care for GE 5 star which is too bright for me. Most of my CDs are jazz, and I love vocals, specially female vocals.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Trapper, did you send P a set of WB's to try? I continue to enjoy the hell out of them. To describe the sound is a challenge. They have such a wonderful integration of the full spectrum. Nothing highlighted, - under-done or over-done, terrific sound stage and vocals... They just get-er-done!_

 

Ha !! I thought you did lol.....i just got mine today.....glad I took your recommendation and got a few spares....They are growing on me by the hour...I think this is gonna be an exceptional tube and maybe, just maybe the end to my tube rolling....although i do have a few 1944 and 45 nos tubes coming in the mail....Gonna be difficult for me to pull these Sylvanias out to give them a try though...Damn I'm gonna miss eBay


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dan_can* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I don't really care for GE 5 star which is too bright for me. Most of my CDs are jazz, and I love vocals, specially female vocals._

 

Just wondering what cans you're using.....I find they're a little bright with my Grado's but they really open up my Sennheiser 580's....I'm also going through a Zero dac with the 627's which are not bright opamps...I agree that those Sylvania's are incredible right out of the box Haven't had the opportunity to listen to the Golds but can't imagine them being too much better than these..And these have only a few hours on them.......Hope your Mk IV SE gets a fast turn around ....


----------



## dan_can

My main phone is HD650 re-cabled with RAL silver cables. I either sold or gave away all my Grado's after I got my HD650 re-cabled. Maybe I need to burn the 5 star more in.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought a set of 1940's (?) 5654 Tung-Sol's on ebay. Does anyone have experience with these? I think they're probably similar to 5654 Sylvanias...
 I'm in the same boat, I had to return my MKIII due to shipping damage. I'd rather just burn in the best overall quality tubes instead of waiting.
 I like deep tight, and expansive bass, but not floppy. Accurate midrange and shimmering but not sibilant highs. Will my new Tung-Sol's work for this, or do I want Mullard?

 Basically, I want the amp to sound best with the multitude of different styles I listen to - From accoustic jazz and classical, to death metal and electronica/Hip-Hop_

 

I think the Tung-Sols (if they are truly 1940's version) will blow you away! I have a matched set and they are everything you say you are looking for! They will need time to burn-in, but they will sound much better than the newer TS's. Good pick for sure.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's the reply that I had from yen1233 about the distortion problem with the Telefunken EF91 :

 "Hi Patrick, the Telefunken EF91 are NOS tubes and will need some burn-in for its sound to mature, the distortion you're hearing is normal for all EF91 tubes and typically goes away after ten to twenty hours of operation. Please make sure that your source volume is set to max, doing this will decrease the level of distortion overall" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think I know what he's talking about here. 

 If someone had their source outputting lets say 75%, they would have to run up their headphone amp further in order to achieve a desired volume. This might enter the "distortion" beginnings of the TF EF91's that were not burned in yet.

 If someone has their source outputting 100%, the headphone amp doesn't need to be turned up as high to achieve the same desired volume. This should keep the amp below the beginning "distortion" level of the TF EF91's.


----------



## YtseJamer

I have found a set of 4 6AK5WB (Sylvania ??) for $20 with the shipping included.

 I'll let you know how they sound soon.

*Update : *The 6AK5WB that I have found are not from Sylvania, they are Mfr by a US firm for CGE.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dan_can* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, Sylvania 6ak5 WB is my favorite. They look exactly like the Gold Brand without gold pins. I think they even sound better than Gold Brand out of box. I didn't bother burning in my Gold Brand to do further AB'ing since I just love those WBs. Unfortunately my MkIV SE is on the way to David for repair. I was trying to locate more WBs, no luck. WE 403B is anther great choice. I don't really care for GE 5 star which is too bright for me. Most of my CDs are jazz, and I love vocals, specially female vocals._


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a set of International EF91's. Penchum sent them to me and he has tried them with no problems using all of his Senn's. They play ok at modest volume, but as soon as there is heavy bass or a surge in dynamics, they distort on my K701's as well as when I use i-buds. I think it has to do with efficiency and volume/bass content. It's not like they don't work period, it's just that they are limited. To a degree I find unexceptable._

 

FWIW I thought Penchum's Senns might have worked because of their relatively high impedance. So today I put together a cable with some 220Ω resistors in series with the drivers to approximate the Senn's impedance. It didn't work
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just get the same result with a little less bass.

 I've also put in a good 15 hours on the tubes and the distortion hasn't changed at all.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Maybe the EF91 Telefunkens are just a bad set of tubes for the Little Dots. 

 David posted here that he couldn't reproduce the distortion with a set of Mullard EF91s.

 I got some audible distortion at high listening levels from my Mullard EF91s out of the box but it went away after a few hours of listening. The Mullards really give my k-501s some low end heft.


----------



## YtseJamer

I have burned my Telefunken EF91 for the last 30hrs but the distortion problem is still present 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Damn I have paid $67 for these tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe the EF91 Telefunkens are just a bad set of tubes for the Little Dots. 

 David posted here that he couldn't reproduce the distortion with a set of Mullard EF91s.

 I got some audible distortion at high listening levels from my Mullard EF91s out of the box but it went away after a few hours of listening. The Mullards really give my k-501s some low end heft._


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the Tung-Sols (if they are truly 1940's version) will blow you away! I have a matched set and they are everything you say you are looking for! They will need time to burn-in, but they will sound much better than the newer TS's. Good pick for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm stoked! I did some research, they are the smooth black (not grey) plates. Apparently renowned for sound. This will be my first Tung-Sol use, but I've always read good things about them. 
 I'm a bass player, and I'm partial to Mullard and Telefunken's in my tube pre-amp, but this is an entirely different animal...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm stoked! I did some research, they are the smooth black (not grey) plates. Apparently renowned for sound. This will be my first Tung-Sol use, but I've always read good things about them. 
 I'm a bass player, and I'm partial to Mullard and Telefunken's in my tube pre-amp, but this is an entirely different animal..._

 

Hehehe! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yep, they should make your HD-600s sing like crazy. Mine had much improvement during burn-in, so don't freak of they sound a little off in the beginning.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehehe! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yep, they should make your HD-600s sing like crazy. Mine had much improvement during burn-in, so don't freak of they sound a little off in the beginning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Man, I can hardly wait. David shipped the replacement yesterday, so it'll likely be here next week.
 I'm glad to know that there's so much difference after burn in. The channel that did work on the original MKIII I received was kinda fuzzy and lacked detail. It was also lacking in dynamics and upper/lower extension. OTOH it may have been that the whole amp wasn't working properly.
 I did plug in a Tung-Sol just to see if they worked after I'd bought them on ebay, the difference was immediately apparent. They (it was only one channel) were louder with more definition. I'll start with those for sure.


----------



## oatmeal769

Will these work as power tube upgrades? I'm a little confused on the nomenclature...

JJ ECC99 Preamp Tube 12AU7 Type NEW !! - eBay (item 200200320877 end time Apr-14-08 12:32:48 PDT)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will these work as power tube upgrades? I'm a little confused on the nomenclature...

JJ ECC99 Preamp Tube 12AU7 Type NEW !! - eBay (item 200200320877 end time Apr-14-08 12:32:48 PDT)_

 


 I don't think those are compatible.12AU7 are driver/pre-amp section tubes for the most part. No amp I've come across uses this type (12AU7 or equivalent) as a power tube, then again I could be wrong. 

 Only 6N6P(6H6P) 6N6PI & 6H6PI AFAIK for the MK III. Build some "Bulldapters" and your options expand considerably. Change grid resistor from 60 (or is it 68 ? I forget) ohm to 120 ohm and you can (only) run 6H30P series.

 Regards,

 Peete.

 MK III owner


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Also, if your HD-650's are new, they too need several hundred hours before they "open up". Hang in there, be patient with your new gear and do those hours. The difference between start and finish is almost startling! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey Pench.....define several...as in 3-500 hrs or 2-300 hrs....or 600 hrs + ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still pluggin' away at my 650's (figure about 185 hrs so far). On another note I finished up the Pink Floyd cap and diode mod on my X-10 V3 and what a difference that has made between the prelude card and the MK III. I scored some NOS Sylvania 6112's from the early 70's for good measure and added PIO bypass caps to the output stage........again with the burn in crappola 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...seems like I'm doing nuthin' but burnin' in gear the last 3 weeks with no end in sight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,


 Peete.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only 6N6P(6H6P) 6N6PI & 6H6PI AFAIK for the MK III. Build some "Bulldapters" and your options expand considerably. Change grid resistor from 60 (or is it 68 ? I forget) ohm to 120 ohm and you can (only) run 6H30P series._

 

Ahh - Thanks for those numbers. Any recommendations? I've seen the Electro-Harmonix ones, but they're pretty pricey. I hear power tubes don't make as big a difference, but like I've said, I'd rather just burn in a premium set of tubes from the get-go.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahh - Thanks for those numbers. Any recommendations? I've seen the Electro-Harmonix ones, but they're pretty pricey. I hear power tubes don't make as big a difference, but like I've said, I'd rather just burn in a premium set of tubes from the get-go._

 


 Well, once you've changed the grid resistors there are three levels of 6H30. There is the regular 6H30P, the EH 6H30P gold, and the uber expensive 6H30P DR's. Pench has the latter 2. The gold's are the sweet spot money wise while the DR's are 200 bones for a matched pair from tube depot. You might be able to find a used pair for less although I haven't searched for them so I don't really know if they are numerous or not. I somehow doubt there are many DR's out there. 

 The Bulldapters are an interesting way to go as well. Loads of NOS glass can had going that route. Ask Ethebull and Pench for details on tube types you can use with the aforementioned Bulldapters. 

 Listening to some Pink Floyd right now......ahhhhhh.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope this helps you Oatmealer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, once you've changed the grid resistors there are three levels of 6H30. There is the regular 6H30P, the EH 6H30P gold, and the uber expensive 6H30P DR's. Pench has the latter 2. The gold's are the sweet spot money wise while the DR's are 200 bones for a matched pair from tube depot. You might be able to find a used pair for less although I haven't searched for them so I don't really know if they are numerous or not. I somehow doubt there are many DR's out there. 

 The Bulldapters are an interesting way to go as well. Loads of NOS glass can had going that route. Ask Ethebull and Pench for details on tube types you can use with the aforementioned Bulldapters. 

 Listening to some Pink Floyd right now......ahhhhhh.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope this helps you Oatmealer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

MAJOR old Floyd fan here too. Is the difference worth the money? I'm reading this as: 
 Break mine in with my NOS Tung-Sol's in the driver section, leave the stock power tubes alone for now.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I just thought I'd add another point about the stock tubes if you decide to stick with them. Be sure to get 6N6P tubes made from the Novosibirsk plant. They are cheap, well made and sound very good. Mine (I have 6 sets) are from the early 70's. Novosibirsk (spelling ?) have a pentagon symbol on the cardboard sleeves along with a radio tower. Most of the vendors of this type of tube are in the Ukraine or the Russian Federation. I ordered mine from a cat in the Ukraine. Took same amount of time to get as tubes from Yen Audio in USA. I'm in Toronto GTA region in Ontario so go figure


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Actually I'd break in the amp with the stock tubes for 75 hours first then the last 50 use the Tung Sols. 40's era Tung Sols are getting scarce (that are really in NOS condition, most are used or pulls that test "good"). Something to keep in mind.

 I have a set of Tung Sol 403B's and Sylvania 6AK5's from the 50's waiting on my HD650's to get broken in. I'm using a set of dirt cheap Russian driver tubes ( the ones Pench and E raved about ) along with the stock power tubes to use for break in purposes. Saving the good stuff for when it counts. That's just me though, I'm cheap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would kill for master tapes of Wish You Here, Animals, Meddle, oh hell the whole damn library


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I forgot to answer your question about power tube differences. I'd describe the stock 6N6P tube as a EL34 type and the 6H30P more like a KT88 if that helps. The KT88 being known for a tighter more extended response, especially in the bass region and the EL34 more relaxed but with that beautiful midrange we all crave.


 Cripes I'm piling up the posts tonight


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually I'd break in the amp with the stock tubes for 75 hours first then the last 50 use the Tung Sols. 40's era Tung Sols are getting scarce (that are really in NOS condition, most are used or pulls that test "good"). Something to keep in mind.

 I have a set of Tung Sol 403B's and Sylvania 6AK5's from the 50's waiting on my HD650's to get broken in. I'm using a set of dirt cheap Russian driver tubes ( the ones Pench and E raved about ) along with the stock power tubes to use for break in purposes. Saving the good stuff for when it counts. That's just me though, I'm cheap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would kill for master tapes of Wish You Here, Animals, Meddle, oh hell the whole damn library 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

That's actually a great idea. I can even use the tung's when listening during break-in.
 Check these out, do they look like the real deal? They do to me, but I'm not a major expert.

Tung-sol 6AK5 Matched Pair Little Dot MkII MkIII MkIV - eBay (item 290215068792 end time Mar-23-08 15:56:10 PDT)

 It's just stupid how well those albums were recorded 35 years ago. Although not their biggest 'hit', Animals is a perennial favorite.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Congrats on the score....great price. Side getters on those...interesting. I'm no expert on anything but for that price you can't go wrong.

 Looks like the real deal...remind me of 12AU7 RCA clear tops. I'll bet dollars to donuts those tubes sound amazing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Quite the find Oatmeal !!!

 Regards,

 Peete.

 PS, I'm hitting the sack Jack......1:30 am here....


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats on the score....great price. Side getters on those...interesting. I'm no expert on anything but for that price you can't go wrong.

 Looks like the real deal...remind me of 12AU7 RCA clear tops. I'll bet dollars to donuts those tubes sound amazing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Quite the find Oatmeal !!!

 Regards,

 Peete.

 PS, I'm hitting the sack Jack......1:30 am here...._

 

Yeah, I was pretty excited.
 Check these out. I've seen literature that says these are equivalent to the stock 6H6PI, but I've also seen contradictory stuff too...

6CG7 / 6FQ7 Tube Types

 PS, I was asleep by then!


----------



## oatmeal769

Yeah, the side getter thing is cool. That's one of the things that makes me think these are seriously old skool. Like they were made before they figured out how to do it vertically...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Pench.....define several...as in 3-500 hrs or 2-300 hrs....or 600 hrs + ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still pluggin' away at my 650's (figure about 185 hrs so far). On another note I finished up the Pink Floyd cap and diode mod on my X-10 V3 and what a difference that has made between the prelude card and the MK III. I scored some NOS Sylvania 6112's from the early 70's for good measure and added PIO bypass caps to the output stage........again with the burn in crappola 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...seems like I'm doing nuthin' but burnin' in gear the last 3 weeks with no end in sight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,


 Peete._

 

Howdy!!

 When I burned-in my HD-650s, they took almost 450 hours before I couldn't detect any further changes. When I bought my wife her HD-650s for Xmas, they took only 300 hours. I'm guessing that each set is slightly different than the next. If I were you, I would put in the best tubes I have and just enjoy the heck out of them for the next month or so. Eventually, you won't be able to detect any further changes, and you'll be done. Might as well enjoy them now.


----------



## oatmeal769

Penchum - 
 Do you know if these are a possibility for power tubes? They are cheap and abundant : )
 6CG7 / 6FQ7 Tube Types


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum - 
 Do you know if these are a possibility for power tubes? They are cheap and abundant : )
 6CG7 / 6FQ7 Tube Types_

 

Not that I'm aware of. I don't see it listed as a substitute for the 6H6NPI. I have a couple more sources to check, but I'd say no for right now. You should see if PP will sell you a couple of his extra 6H6NPI's he talked about. They really are top notch in the 6H6N tube line-up.


----------



## Trapper32

Looking at the specs for the 6n6p and 6n6p-i there appear to be differences. 6n6p at 750ma heater current vs. 900ma for 6n6p-i, 
 Other differences seem to be allowable 150v cathode-heater voltage difference for the -i vs normal 100v, and the 6n6p rated for 3000 hours of service vs. 500 hours for the 6n6p-i.

 Has anyone tried both of these tubes????


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looking at the specs for the 6n6p and 6n6p-i there appear to be differences. 6n6p at 750ma heater current vs. 900ma for 6n6p-i, 
 Other differences seem to be allowable 150v cathode-heater voltage difference for the -i vs normal 100v, and the 6n6p rated for 3000 hours of service vs. 500 hours for the 6n6p-i.

 Has anyone tried both of these tubes????_

 

Yes. The MKII comes with the 6H6N and the MKIII comes with the 6H6NPI. The 6H6NPI is better than the 6H6N, even more so if manufactured by the place PP was posting about earlier. It's kinda weird that the service life is listed so low on the 6H6NPI. I have a couple of sets with way more hours on them. Maybe it's a printing mistake? The Russian printing of the letters/numbers and their meanings can create havoc when researching these things.


----------



## YtseJamer

I have finally decided to sell my TELEFUNKEN 6AM6S / EF91. I also sell my Mullard M8161/CV4015 EF92.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have burned my Telefunken EF91 for the last 30hrs but the distortion problem is still present 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Damn I have paid $67 for these tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Howdy!!

 When I burned-in my HD-650s, they took almost 450 hours before I couldn't detect any further changes. When I bought my wife her HD-650s for Xmas, they took only 300 hours. I'm guessing that each set is slightly different than the next. If I were you, I would put in the best tubes I have and just enjoy the heck out of them for the next month or so. Eventually, you won't be able to detect any further changes, and you'll be done. Might as well enjoy them now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Thanks Pench, you bet I'm listening to em....can't resist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Using the all Russian tube line up for now. Really am digging the Novo power tubes with those excellent bargoon crimped sided driver tubes (name of which eludes me at the moment LOL) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oatmeal...........here's a set of 10 6N6Pi , Novosibirsk plant tubes......

RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - (eBay.ca item 260229138991 end time 17-Apr-08 15:22:36 EDT)

 I have bought from this guy before...really good vendor, well packed stuff, fast shipping and the price is well...very cheap.....

 I can still send you a set of mine if you want (PM me), just thought I'd give you a heads up for a great source of MK III power tubes.


 Just scored a Meixing Ming Da MC-7R pre amp for the main rig.......should be here in a week or less...so says the vendor (from China of course). Next up is a Zero dac...then ......wife kills me with rusty steak knife 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 PS I've gotten good at dodging flying objects (cups, plates etc )


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have finally decided to sell my TELEFUNKEN 6AM6S / EF91. I also sell my Mullard M8161/CV4015 EF92._

 

Hi Pfillion,

 How come your selling the EF92's ? Not your cup of tea ? Sorry to hear the Tele's aren't working for you. That's a bummer. 

 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Pench, you bet I'm listening to em....can't resist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Using the all Russian tube line up for now. Really am digging the Novo power tubes with those excellent bargoon crimped sided driver tubes (name of which eludes me at the moment LOL) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oatmeal...........here's a set of 10 6N6Pi , Novosibirsk plant tubes......

RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - (eBay.ca item 260229138991 end time 17-Apr-08 15:22:36 EDT)

 I have bought from this guy before...really good vendor, well packed stuff, fast shipping and the price is well...very cheap.....

 I can still send you a set of mine if you want (PM me), just thought I'd give you a heads up for a great source of MK III power tubes.


 Just scored a Meixing Ming Da MC-7R pre amp for the main rig.......should be here in a week or less...so says the vendor (from China of course). Next up is a Zero dac...then ......wife kills me with rusty steak knife 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 PS I've gotten good at dodging flying objects (cups, plates etc ) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

Wow, PP, what are you doing??? Are you buying a complete new system? Like a piece at a time? Please, tell us more.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, PP, what are you doing??? Are you buying a complete new system? Like a piece at a time? Please, tell us more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok Pench...here goes

 I've been looking for a tube based phono stage for a while to resurrect my old but still very good See Corp Revolver TT, and I didn't want to spend a whole pile of money on it. It didn't make sense to spend more than the cartridge was worth 
 since I spin vinyl pretty rarely. So I came across a Yaqin MC 12B on Fee bay and after reading many comments on it decided to buy one ( The vendor lives 30 miles from me so I saved some dough on shipping ). Bear with me here as this gets tied in with what I'm upgrading now. 

 Ok so I pick up the Yaqin and test her out, it also has a cd input with a pre amp stage and stepped volume with 2 outputs, one being .25v and the other .7v, are you with me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This thing is versatile.

 I will come back to it later on.....at the same time I bought the Yaqin I was also hunting for a headphone amp and a set of headphones to go with it. Thanks to your reviews of the LD line I made up my mind and bought a MK III. I followed some other members advice here and bought used headphones to round out my head fi set up. When the MK III arrived I began using it with a computer as a source since the desktop speakers (even though they are Klipsch pro media 5.1) sound horrible for music. Good for movies and gaming though. Needless to say I was/am very impressed with the Mk III's fidelity and thought "I wonder what this thing sounds like with my main rig" used as a preamp with just a cd player as the source. 

 I should explain my main rig at this point, right now the pre amp is the excellent SS Adcom GFP-750 (used in passive mode) fed by a Ah Njoe Super Tjoeb for CD's, a TEAC V530X cassette deck for tapes,A JVC XV-FA92 DVD/DVD-A changer ( a very good mass produced consumer product for a change ) A See Corp Revolver TT with BP Special III hi output MC cartridge on a Mission carbon graphite arm, amped by Yaqin MC 12B..........,
 Pioneer VSX-D912 HT reciever for movies and such (pre amp out to Marrantz MA 700 monoblocks on all channels except main L+R ) Cable Hi Def box digital out to Pioneer then Pioneer amin L/R outs to Adcom theater pass through (unity gain).

 Rear speaker array, Magnepan MMG's x 2 (LS,RS), Front speaker array, Eminent Technology LFT-VIIIb's (push pull planar hybrids) for L/R duty, Maggie MMG for center channel.

 Left and right ET LFT-VIII's are biamped using Nordost Blue Heaven cables in a double run from a pair of Odyssey Stratos Dual mono stereo amps ( with 120K each of additional filter capacitance added for current storage since the LFT-VIII's are very power hungry). The signal from the Adcom is first sent to a Marchand analog 3 way stereo x-over with xover freq's set to 55 hz low pass to 2 x 12 inch 500 watt stereo subs. Additional 12 inch 500 watt sub used for LF effects channel on Pioneer HT rec, another stereo low pass feeds one of the Odyssey amps at 180 hz then to the low freq driver on the LFT - VIII's, the last freq setting on the Marchand is stereo hi pass at 160 HZ to the second Odyssey amp and on to the planar panels of the LFT VIIIb's.

 Believe it or not I'm not finished.........

 Lo pass filter slopes are as follows, 55 hz is -48 db/oct, second low pass is -6 db/oct single order, and last filter slope is also -6 db/oct single order. The natural roll off of the planar panels combined with the 2 single order filter settings allows for a near seamless transition ( to my ears anyway ) with no apparent comb filter effects, cut from one cloth so to speak. The Marchand being analog was key to this seamless functionality. 

 Speaker placement was/is a nightmare.....but I have experimented over the years and have come to one conclusion...unless you treat the room, either physically or electronically the system isn't performing at it's best. My room has some odd annomolies that work for the system and against the system. First off my sub tower is located in one corner about 1.5 ft out from either wall. They are stacked on each other with the bottom sub on isolation footers directly onto the concrete slab floor ( cut small holes in flooring to get to the bare concrete. Can't move the stack once that is done. I had planned this out well because of measurement tools and test cd's with 1 hz increments from 15 hz to 500 hz. What a tedious process that was. It payed off as the subs were now tamed of there room coupling frequency humps in the 40hz region, I have a digital parametric eq that has dual 32 bit dsp engines and hand tuned the sub tower to the room acoustics. I never boost any sub frequencies just cut the room modes in a narrow notch filter. The digital para eq is only in the sub frequency range after the Marchand x over.

 Still with me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This set up is a major pain in the ass to move and rewire as you can well imagine. Most cabling is MIT 330 series III impedance matched IC's, with some source types using Nordost Blue Heaven II ( both digital players use BH II).

 I have not mentioned the MF X-10V3 buffer and X-PSUV3, it needed new tubes and a recap ( ala pink floyd mods at rock grotto). That buffer and psu were targeted for use with the MK III as a sweetener for the prelude X-Fi SC.

 Ok I think that's the whole thing.........phew.......

 So I hook up the MK III to the Ah Tjoeb and bypass the adcom and go straight to the xover, pick a good cd and press play........jaw hits floor.....what the hell ? How is this little amp kicking the snot out of the Adcom for 1/10 th the price ? I'm thinking no way I must be hearing things, so put the CD player on repeat, turn off the main amps and let the MK III run for about 8 hrs straight without listening at all to it during that time.

 At the end of that time period, I fire up the amps, let the MK III cool for a while as the Odyssey's (SS) need quite a while to warm up before they sound there best. I wait for 2 hrs, MK III is then fired up and wait another 30 minutes and press play........again utter disbelief.....this system's synergy factor registers a 9/10 now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Amazing......now I'm thinking lets try the Yaqin as a pre amp and compare the two in a more equal (cost wise) comparison.....shut everything down, cable in the Yaqin ( with NOS tubes in it, Baldwin/Mullard 12AU7's in the pre amp section, RCA 5751 triple mica blk plates in the phono section) power everything back up....wait about 45 minutes then hit play .........even more amazement and general disbelief......

 Same track used for each test with levels matched by db meter from sweet spot chair. I can't believe the utter fluidity, 3D image quality, midrange mastery this system is now capable of.....what a lucky lucky break....
 I bought the Meixing MC-7R because I need multiple inputs,and can be upgraded to reference level status by Response Audio in the US. 

 The kicker is the blue book value of a mint condition Adcom GFP-750 is 725.00 US and the Ming Da is 540 US including delivery. I have money left from the Adcom sale to sink into tubes or put away towards the (675 dollar ref mod). 

 I think my head is going to explode 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now the reason I'm looking at the Zero is twofold, it's allows use of both the computer based lossless library and at the flick of a switch a dedicated source such as the JVC DVDA player or the AMC CD8B digital outs without having to touch cables, turn amps on and off...etc.

 The Auzen Prelude's analog out to the X10v3/XPSU ---> MkIII is very good, but it's overloading the input level of the MKIII.....so time for an outboard DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've added 3 really nice solid brass footers ( triangle pattern, gold and silver color )to the Mk III, which have a really sharp and tiny tip on 'em . Should help damp the amp a liitle bit from vibration.


 Basically the MK III opened up some really tangible options in a tube based pre amp that otherwise could not be realized without a major outlay of cash, as in 3K plus for a western built hi end pre. Thanks to the proliferation of hi quality, lower priced Chinese tech this dream can become a viable reality for me. My next step after the Response Audio mod for Meixing is a KT88 based set of mono blocks for the midrange/tweeter panels of the planar speakers. That is well down the road though. That will be the end of the journey when that happens.....I hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sorry if the story reads like a crack addicts nebulous diatribe, I'm not the best writer by a long shot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think that about does it...I'm sure I'll be editing tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete.

 PS You've simply got to hear it to believe it. An outboard DAC is almost a necessity for efficient routing possibilities in my case, or at least that's what I keep telling myself. What with all this good Chinese gear floating around I can actually afford to experiment a little and if I snag a dud at least it won't break the bank.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Haven't bought a turkey yet, thanks to Head Fi and it's members.

 You should hear "Farewell to Kings" and "Yes, Relayer" on this rig via vinyl...triple thumbs up for tubes.


----------



## dgbiker1

Peete:
 You should replace the satellites on your promedia with bookshelf speakers. I replaced the fronts on my Promedia 4.3 (2 X 2.1s + 1 real sub) with Polk R-somethings. The Promedia amp is good enough to power them and the sound difference is pretty significant. Definitely makes the system sound less plasticky
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got my Polks off ebay for dirt cheap, ~$40 IIRC.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok Pench...here goes

 I've SNIP._

 

Nice stuff! Gotta have that "main system", it's a moral imperative! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I think I would croak without mine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OMG, it's going to be 95 degrees here for Sunday! Guess I'll be inside listening to my stuff.


----------



## waxer

Oh cruel world.
 This will be my first trip into the world of tubes. Also my first headphone amp. My wallet also blames you all for my now frequent viewing of ebay for tubes even though I havnt even got the amp yet.
 Ive noticed that Im certainly not the first to say that in this and the review thread.
 I hate waiting.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *waxer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh cruel world.
 This will be my first trip into the world of tubes. Also my first headphone amp. My wallet also blames you all for my now frequent viewing of ebay for tubes even though I havnt even got the amp yet.
 Ive noticed that Im certainly not the first to say that in this and the review thread.
 I hate waiting._

 

Did you order a MKIII? The EMS shipping LD uses is the fastest shipping around! Hopefully, your wait will be shorter than you think.


----------



## waxer

Yeah I ordered one. Cant wait.
 I want to get something ss as well as the year progresses.


----------



## YtseJamer

To be honest with you, I'm probably too lazy to put the jumpers on my amp every time that I want to try them. Also, I think that my other tubes are as good or better for the type of music that I listen to. (Prog-Metal)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Pfillion,

 How come your selling the EF92's ? Not your cup of tea ? Sorry to hear the Tele's aren't working for you. That's a bummer. 

 Regards,

 Peete._


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To be honest with you, I'm probably too lazy to put the jumpers on my amp every time that I want to try them. Also, I think that my other tubes are as good or better for the type of music that I listen to. (Prog-Metal)_

 


 LOL......now that's honesty. Truth be told those jumpers are a pain in the ass to manipulate unless you have tweezers for fingers and not pudgy sausages like mine


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice stuff! Gotta have that "main system", it's a moral imperative! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I think I would croak without mine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OMG, it's going to be 95 degrees here for Sunday! Guess I'll be inside listening to my stuff. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Thanks Pench, 95 ? Yikes...but it's a dry heat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I don't think I'd feel whole without at least one decent rig in the house. The family room rig isn't half bad either. Just found out ET has redesigned the one weakness of the LFT VIIIa's. The ribbon tweeter upgrade is 400 US, sigh...yet another expense ........well worth it and on the way. This should make a very good speaker a great one. Right on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete:
 You should replace the satellites on your promedia with bookshelf speakers. I replaced the fronts on my Promedia 4.3 (2 X 2.1s + 1 real sub) with Polk R-somethings. The Promedia amp is good enough to power them and the sound difference is pretty significant. Definitely makes the system sound less plasticky
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got my Polks off ebay for dirt cheap, ~$40 IIRC._

 

You know it dgb1, that thought has crossed my mind a few times. Thanks for tip on the Bash amp. Audio Advisor has a deal for some bookshelf speakers at 99 bucks a pair (Athena Tech LS 100's) with a demo pair of the same model for 85.00.

 Might just try em out.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looking at the specs for the 6n6p and 6n6p-i there appear to be differences. 6n6p at 750ma heater current vs. 900ma for 6n6p-i, 
 Other differences seem to be allowable 150v cathode-heater voltage difference for the -i vs normal 100v, and the 6n6p rated for 3000 hours of service vs. 500 hours for the 6n6p-i.

 Has anyone tried both of these tubes????_

 

Here is a spec. sheet for the 6CG7. 

http://www.drtube.com/datasheets/6cg7ge56.pdf

 Can someone with more electrical knowledge than I tell if these can be used or adapted as power tubes? Apparently they sound great, and are quite plentiful and cheap.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oatmeal...........here's a set of 10 6N6Pi , Novosibirsk plant tubes......

RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - (eBay.ca item 260229138991 end time 17-Apr-08 15:22:36 EDT)_

 

Cool, thanks! Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can still send you a set of mine if you want (PM me), just thought I'd give you a heads up for a great source of MK III power tubes._

 

I'm still on a mission to see if there are other compatibles first, but if not, then definitely!!


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a spec. sheet for the 6CG7. 

http://www.drtube.com/datasheets/6cg7ge56.pdf

 Can someone with more electrical knowledge than I tell if these can be used or adapted as power tubes? Apparently they sound great, and are quite plentiful and cheap._

 

Bump


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a spec. sheet for the 6CG7. 

http://www.drtube.com/datasheets/6cg7ge56.pdf

 Can someone with more electrical knowledge than I tell if these can be used or adapted as power tubes? Apparently they sound great, and are quite plentiful and cheap._

 

Bump... Anyone???


----------



## Skylab

The 6CG7 is significantly different from the 6AK5/EF95. I wouldn't try it.


----------



## Penchum

Oat,

 I thought you were looking to see if the 6CG7 could be used as the Power Tube (like the 6H6NPI)? I'm trying to find all my data to compare them, but going from memory, I don't think they are compatible both electrically and pin-out wise.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Skylab did your Sweet 2 show up yet ?


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 6CG7 is significantly different from the 6AK5/EF95. I wouldn't try it._

 

I'm looking to use them as POWER tubes, not Pre.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought you were looking to see if the 6CG7 could be used as the Power Tube (like the 6H6NPI)?_

 

Yes, I am. Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm trying to find all my data to compare them, but going from memory, I don't think they are compatible both electrically and pin-out wise._

 

I was looking at both spec sheets, and with my limited understanding, it seems the pins and electrical are similar... (?) If not, I've heard lots of good things, I wonder if they can be adapted?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I am.I was looking at both spec sheets, and with my limited understanding, it seems the pins and electrical are similar... (?) If not, I've heard lots of good things, I wonder if they can be adapted?_

 

I can't seem to find my 6H6NPI data. Can you give me link to it?
 Thanks!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oat,

 I thought you were looking to see if the 6CG7 could be used as the Power Tube (like the 6H6NPI)? I'm trying to find all my data to compare them, but going from memory, I don't think they are compatible both electrically and pin-out wise._

 


 That is right on the money Pench. 

 Oatmealer, I think your focusing too much on the power tube section. What can be done, and this mod is dead simple, makes use of a very good to great power tube in the 6H30PI. There isn't much better (arguably) in that regard for the MK III, NOS or otherwise IMHO (keeping in mind design/cost considerations of the stock MK III). 

 The MK III is designed around those Russian power tubes for better or for worse. I happen to think it's for the better. I'm not trying to sound preachy Oatmeal, I'm just trying to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Here's a link to specs

6N6P, 6N6PI (6H6n, 6H6nN)


----------



## Penchum

IMHO, the Power Tubes account for about 15% of the possible changes in SQ. The other 85% is the Driver Tubes. When I asked DavidZ about this (quite a while ago), he said that it sounds right, so it must be close. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To help others look for compatible driver tubes, I have this EF92 & EF95 list I try to keep updated, on the desktop of my computer. Here is the content of it:

*[size=small]EF92 Compatibles[/size]*: *EF92*, CV131, *M8161*, *CV4015*, *6065*, *6CQ6*, *W77*, 9D6

*[size=small]EF95 Compatibles[/size]*: *EF95*, *5654*, *6AK5*, *6ZH1P-EV*, *6J1*, *M8100*, *403B*, 5591, CV5216, CV8246, 6069, *CV4010*, CV10442, CV10100, CV8159, CV8225, *CV850*

 Like the list Little-Dot keeps on their site, I have bold the ones I know work for sure. The others are "theoretical" compatibles that need to be tested.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm looking to use them as POWER tubes, not Pre._

 

Ooops! Sorry.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was looking at both spec sheets, and with my limited understanding, it seems the pins and electrical are similar... (?) If not, I've heard lots of good things, I wonder if they can be adapted?_

 

It looks like the specs are not wildly different, but they are definitely different. Also, the triodes are reversed in the pin configuration.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ooops! Sorry.



 It looks like the specs are not wildly different, but they are definitely different. Also, the triodes are reversed in the pin configuration._

 

Agreed. There are too many differences for me to say they are adaptable. You could email DavidZ or Sword Yang at Little-Dot about it. Sword will know for sure.


----------



## dan_can

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMHO, the Power Tubes account for about 15% of the possible changes in SQ. The other 85% is the Driver Tubes. When I asked DavidZ about this (quite a while ago), he said that it sounds right, so it must be close. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To help others look for compatible driver tubes, I have this EF92 & EF95 list I try to keep updated, on the desktop of my computer. Here is the content of it:

*[size=small]EF92 Compatibles[/size]*: *EF92*, CV131, *CV4010*, *M8161*, *CV4015*, *6065*, *6CQ6*, *W77*, 9D6

*[size=small]EF95 Compatibles[/size]*: *EF95*, *5654*, *6AK5*, *6ZH1P-EV*, *6J1*, *M8100*, *403B*, 5591, CV5216, CV8246, 6069, CV10442, CV10100, CV8159, CV8225, *CV850*

 Like the list Little-Dot keeps on their site, I have bold the ones I know work for sure. The others are "theoretical" compatibles that need to be tested. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think CV4010 is EF95 family.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dan_can* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think CV4010 is EF95 family._

 






Fixed


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed. There are too many differences for me to say they are adaptable. You could email DavidZ or Sword Yang at Little-Dot about it. Sword will know for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's a good idea. But seeing that there are significant differences, and you guys saying the power section doesn't have as much to do with sound, this may be worth abandoning. I'll email them just in case - I posted on their board, but no response so far. Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What can be done, and this mod is dead simple, makes use of a very good to great power tube in the 6H30PI. There isn't much better (arguably) in that regard for the MK III, NOS or otherwise_

 

Didn't you say you had a couple you'd sell me? Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not trying to sound preachy Oatmeal, I'm just trying to help_

 

No worries! Experimentation is why we're here!


----------



## dr dougie

Just saw this. I ordered some 6CG7s to try (the classic RCA clear tops) when this first came up because I saw them for cheap but still don't have them. Keeping in mind my limited tube knowledge(!) it seemed from a little research that the only issue is 6CG7 has lower enough plate resistance than 6H6Pi to often make a difference. So an amp designed for 6H6Pi with no feedback might or might not work with 6CG7. It seems there would probably not be anything too bad that could happen other than the 6CG7s would sound terrible so am still going to try them if and when I get the ones I ordered.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr dougie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just saw this. I ordered some 6CG7s to try (the classic RCA clear tops) when this first came up because I saw them for cheap but still don't have them. Keeping in mind my limited tube knowledge(!) it seemed from a little research that the only issue is 6CG7 has lower enough plate resistance than 6H6Pi to often make a difference. So an amp designed for 6H6Pi with no feedback might or might not work with 6CG7. It seems there would probably not be anything too bad that could happen other than the 6CG7s would sound terrible so am still going to try them if and when I get the ones I ordered._

 

PLEASE (!) Keep me (us) informed!! This was my conclusion with my limited knowledge as well. These tubes were very highly regarded for sound both in old Hi-Fi, and musical instrument amps. If they can work or be adapted for it, I definitely want to try it. They're plentiful and cheap as well.


----------



## Skylab

Just so you know, there is no guarantee damage won't occur. I recently tried a tube in a chinese-made amp that was not a direct sub but was closer in spec to the stock tube than the 6CG7 is to the 6N6Pi, and after 2 minutes a capacitor in the amp literally exploded. So just beware, if you mess around with this sort of thing, you can get very bad results.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just so you know, there is no guarantee damage won't occur. I recently tried a tube in a chinese-made amp that was not a direct sub but was closer in spec to the stock tube than the 6CG7 is to the 6N6Pi, and after 2 minutes a capacitor in the amp literally exploded. So just beware, if you mess around with this sort of thing, you can get very bad results._

 

I have to agree with Skylab on this subject. Let me explain why.

 First is the warranty. LD will cover problems that arise out of normal use, not problems from tubes that are not identified as "compatible" by them. Under "normal" circumstances, they go out of their way to get you fixed up as fast as possible. This excellent service is being put at risk, with unknown tubes.

 Second, if you hadn't seen my earlier post on this; Power tubes make up an estimated 15% of possible SQ changes. The remaining 85% of possible changes come from the driver tubes. For your money and the biggest gains possible, swapping driver tubes makes much more sense.

 Third; Just because a certain tube is known to sound good in other tube applications, doesn't mean they will have ANY of the same traits in a tube headphone amplifier. Too much depends on what the engineer/designer did in the design and build of the headphone amp.

 Last, it doesn't make any sense to roll tubes until you have the stock tubes and the amp itself, matured. By doing this, you have a reference point that you can more easily remember, and the amp itself will not be changing while you are evaluating a new set of tubes. Current thinking is 100hrs on the amp and 40-50hrs on driver tubes.

 The MKII, MKIII and MKIV are such nice amps, and have SO MANY driver tube rolling possibilities, it would be a shame to have something bad happen, when none of those possibilities have been explored yet. IMHO of course. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ok, I'm done. Sorry if I went on a bit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I only want you to understand things before you go any farther. By all means, do what you feel is best.


----------



## oatmeal769

These are some great points. I have an email in to David, let's see what he says. It's definitely an easier and safer route.

 I'm not hell-bent on it, I was just wondering if it might be a less expensive, more available alternative to the expensive 6H30Pi.

 If they turn out to be incompatible, I will go ahead and do the mod for the higher quality 6H30PI.


----------



## Penchum

From time to time, someone beats me at my own game. That being the pursuit of excellent audio without the price tag. I'm actually very glad it does happen, because I miss some things. There are just too many goodies for one person to keep an eye on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks to Ethebull, who's listening judgment mirrors my own (even though he uses K701s) and his ability to find things I might have missed.

 This time, while I was busy freaking out about the Sylvania GB-5654 Gold Brand tubes (they are amazing), Ethebull found the military stock version, ordered them and tested them and reported back that they were incredible. His description of them was so close to my description of the GB's, I just had to get a pair or two for further study.

 They are here! Military Stock number 5960-00-134-6031, Contract number DSA900-75-A-0040. They are Sylvania JAN 5654W. They have black plates and a round halo getter, attached with one post. The printing on the tube is either in green or blue, with the 5654W marking in grey (hard to read). The boxes have a date packed of 12-75. When mine arrived, I did a direct comparison visually with the GB-5654's, to see if I could see a difference. There was only one difference, the GB-5654's have gold pins. THAT IS ALL!!

 A quick test in my MKIVse tells me that right out of the box, these tubes sound so close to the GB-5654's, I'm not sure I could tell the difference in a more structured testing. They are burning in and I will post a final comparison in a more controlled situation, but for now, I can easily tell these inexpensive 5654W's are the tube to have. I got mine, 4 tubes for $16 on eBay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 I will also try these in my MKII and MKIII, but I expect the same results. 

 Because several eBay sellers watch my postings, and appear to be using them as a guide post for what tubes to sell at a much higher price, I'm implementing and recommending to all, the $8 per tube rule (a time honored rule of thumb). If you see these tubes for more than $8 per tube, don't buy them. They can be found elsewhere for less. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll report back next week with final thoughts on these great tubes.


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 This time, while I was busy freaking out about the Sylvania GB-5654 Gold Brand tubes (they are amazing), Ethebull found the military stock version, ordered them and tested them and reported back that they were incredible. His description of them was so close to my description of the GB's, I just had to get a pair or two for further study._

 

I have to agree with you on the Sylvania GB-5654's.
 I have them in the MK III now and they are incredible.
 They make the AKG 701's sound perfect to me.
 Just the right amount of Bass good mids and not to shrill highs.
 The last couple of days I have been listening with this combo, and I love it.
 Now I have to go look for the Sylvania JAN 5654W for back-up


----------



## dr dougie

Those are all good points and yes I am concerned that I haven't read more about 6CG7 and 6H6PI being interchangeable! I've decided to give the spec sheets to my dad the retired electrial engineer and let him decide unless there is feedback from Sword. I'm certainly not in a big rush to do this. Also interesting that Electroharmonix makes 6CG7s that they say are exact copies of the RCA design, I wonder if they answer questions like this?


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From time to time, someone beats me at my own game. That being the pursuit of excellent audio without the price tag. I'm actually very glad it does happen, because I miss some things. There are just too many goodies for one person to keep an eye on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks to Ethebull, who's listening judgment mirrors my own (even though he uses K701s) and his ability to find things I might have missed.

 This time, while I was busy freaking out about the Sylvania GB-5654 Gold Brand tubes (they are amazing), Ethebull found the military stock version, ordered them and tested them and reported back that they were incredible. His description of them was so close to my description of the GB's, I just had to get a pair or two for further study.

 They are here! Military Stock number 5960-00-134-6031, Contract number DSA900-75-A-0040. They are Sylvania JAN 5654W. They have black plates and a round halo getter, attached with one post. The printing on the tube is either in green or blue, with the 5654W marking in grey (hard to read). The boxes have a date packed of 12-75. When mine arrived, I did a direct comparison visually with the GB-5654's, to see if I could see a difference. There was only one difference, the GB-5654's have gold pins. THAT IS ALL!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sweet! I’m glad you bought some Mr. P, and found they compare so closely to the GB’s. Though I have a dozen varieties of drivers to play with as I choose, I haven’t had a desire to pull my Sylvania 6AK5WB’s since they were first installed a couple weeks ago. They just seem to get everything right, and in proper proportion. 

 BTW, my Syl’s are marked 6AK5WB and have yellow silk screening, laid out like this:

 6AK5WB 
 [_GD_] AAC
 SYLVANIA USA

 I bought mine in five packs. I think the AAC is the date code, but don’t know how to decode it. On the yellow, black and white cardboard sleeve, the bottom is stamped 5-5A SL No other markings anywhere to be found. 

 I paid $15 for five, plus $5.50 shipping. ($4 each)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sweet! I’m glad you bought some Mr. P, and found they compare so closely to the GB’s. Though I have a dozen varieties of drivers to play with as I choose, I haven’t had a desire to pull my Sylvania 6AK5WB’s since they were first installed a couple weeks ago. They just seem to get everything right, and in proper proportion. 

 BTW, my Syl’s are marked 6AK5WB and have yellow silk screening, laid out like this:

 6AK5WB 
 [_GD_] AAC
 SYLVANIA USA

 I bought mine in five packs. I think the AAC is the date code, but don’t know how to decode it. On the yellow, black and white cardboard sleeve, the bottom is stamped 5-5A SL No other markings anywhere to be found. 

 I paid $15 for five, plus $5.50 shipping. ($4 each)_

 

Yep, I fully expect to find them cross marked 6AK5 or 5654 or both. The only important thing for others to look for, are the black plates and halo getter. There is another military one (much older) that has a square getter and grey plates. It sounds about like a GE. These halo round getters with black plates sound MUCH better.


----------



## dan_can

I've got those 6AK5WB [_GD_] AAC SYLVANIA USA as well. They're the best sounding driver tubes among the ones I own. They look exactly the same as Gold Brand without gold pins.


----------



## Penchum

I'm sitting here burning in those tubes, and decided to run the output of my MKIVse to my mini-system, so I can continue burning-in the new speakers I have there. WOW! The output is SO much improved in SQ. You guys with MKIII's and systems, should try this! Very, very nice indeed!!


----------



## oatmeal769

I just rolled in some 1940's NOS Tung Sol's with black plates and side getters...

Tung-sol 6AK5 Matched Pair Little Dot MkII MkIII MkIV - eBay (item 290215068792 end time Mar-23-08 15:56:10 PDT)

 I've been saving until the amp is broken in. I now have 85 hours on the amp with the stock ones. They haven't been broken in yet, but the highs are already sweeter and extend further up. The lows are still a bit fluffy and not as big as the stock burned in ones, but as these burn in I think they'll fatten and tighten up nicely. The 3D and sound stage is already more present too.

 I'm going to keep my eyes out for some mil-spec Sylvania's too. I'd like to compare them.


----------



## YtseJamer

I have received the Sylvania 6AK5WB from Walker Electronic today and they are simply awesome, out of the box they sound better than all the tubes that I have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again ethebull for the advices


----------



## YtseJamer

I have just listened the album Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence of Dream Theater and let me tell you that it was an unbelievable experience with my new Sylvania 6AK5WB 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The sound is more refined than with my other tubes, I can hear more details and the soundstage of my ALO-780s has never been that big.

 I will post more impressions later. (they have only 25hrs of burn-in)


----------



## dan_can

Somehow, they just sound wonderful out of box.


----------



## ethebull

Tube rolling assortment pack on eBay:

EF95 6AK5 6ZH1P-EV 5 prs! Sylvania Tung Sol Amperex +2m - eBay (item 280219516004 end time Apr-26-08 11:40:04 PDT)

 Check it out


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tube rolling assortment pack on eBay:

EF95 6AK5 6ZH1P-EV 5 prs! Sylvania Tung Sol Amperex +2m - eBay (item 280219516004 end time Apr-26-08 11:40:04 PDT)

 Check it out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's a damn good idea! If I was rich, I'd buy in bulk and sell like this so new LD owners could get an assortment pack that didn't cost very much. But, I'm Poe, so I can only dream.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a damn good idea! If I was rich, I'd buy in bulk and sell like this so new LD owners could get an assortment pack that didn't cost very much. But, I'm Poe, so I can only dream. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ha!

 I'm hardly rich. Hoping the bidding will go high enough to get me close to breaking even is all.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dan_can* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Somehow, they just sound wonderful out of box._

 

I'm going to make a guess and say better manufacturing and closer tolerances. If someone knows better, please chime in.


----------



## dr dougie

To add to the Sylvania madness, I got 4 unmatched Sylvania 6AK5s from ebay. The 2 on the left have black plates and round halo getter with single pole and sound great right from first listen! One of them says "DFN" on the label.

 The 2 obviously older ones on the right have gray plates, look almost the same as stock GEs and sound almost the same as the stock GEs. They both have "JEK" on the labels. So it seems like the "good" ones might be available with lots of different packaging.

Attachment 3893


----------



## ethebull

Gives new meaning to "matched", eh?


----------



## ethebull

I found this on the net:

 "After about 1960, many tube manufacturers went to encrypted alphabetical date codes., such as: 

 KE 

 188-5 

 The reason was purportedly to allow factories to track the dates of manufacture of defective tubes (especially important in the case of OEM customers that might send back entire batches of tubes), but avoid possible consumer complaints about "stale" tubes. This sounds perhaps a little silly since the shelf life of tubes is decades, at least (indefinite in practical terms), but some OEM's might have beenn a bit irritated by occasional consumer complaints such as "my 1961 model TV has 1959 model tubes in it!" 

 Tubes made for the US military, or certain OEMs (such as some test equipment manufacturers) that requested it, continued to carry numerical date codes."

 Does anyone know the coding used by Sylvania? 

 Dr D, If they followed an alphabetical progression, your better DFN's would be older than the JEK's. It would be really confusing if they picked letters at random for a given date...


----------



## Trapper32

If anyone's looking for those Sylvania's and can't find any, these might be a good alternative....RAYTHEON JRP-6AK5 .. I picked up a few on eBay and the boxes are stamped Oct 23 1944...I was skeptical that these could match the sound quality of those Sylvania's as they are very very nice...but I had already bought them before I purchased those Sylvania's. Well curiosity got the best of me and I eventually pulled the Sylvania's to try the Raytheon's and was pleasantly surprised...I think the Raytheon's have a cleaner sound with more air if that's possible. There's another listing on eBay now for 10 of them dated Oct 20 1943....and they're very inexpensive...


----------



## ethebull

For $2 a piece, I couldn't resist


----------



## ethebull

FYI, here are some JAN Tube Designators:

 CHS = Sylvania
 CHY = Hytron/CBS
 CRP = Raytheon
 CTL = Tung Sol
 CRC = RCA
 CNU = National Union
 CKR = Ken-Rad or (later) GE
 CG = GE


----------



## Skylab

Also CAHG - Chatham Electronics


----------



## ethebull

EDIT 4/27/08: Don't buy these for making adapters. Also, 6h30's cannot be adapted. A board mod is required.

 For anyone looking to make some Bulldapters, I just ordered a bunch of these:

Vacuum Tube Socket Savers 9 Pin (10 pieces) - eBay (item 130215311246 end time Apr-21-08 16:51:30 PDT)

 The guy sells these in 4’s or 10’s

 I’ll post an update when they arrive. Looks like an easy one piece solution to make 9-pin adapters. I plan to use them to make two 6H30 adapters with a resistor in circuit, rather than replacing the one in the board. 

 I’ll go back and reread this thread about the resistor value and which pin is correct in installing the additional resistor, but if anyone would be so kind. A basic “how-to” would be most helpful. (with an adapter, the additional resistor will be in series…)

 Thanks,

 E

 I have a pair of EH Golds begging to be installed


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For $2 a piece, I couldn't resist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 Glad you snagged them!! Looking forward to your impressions of them seeing as we have the same lot of Sylvania's...
 Listening to music such as Eric Clapton's Unplugged and the clear "Fender" sound of Robert Cray's guitar work on his Definitive album I am prefering the Raytheons...There just seems to be more detail and air around the instruments and everything seems cleaner...And boy do they glow


----------



## ethebull

Always fun to check out some highly regarded tubes. Especially when they cost $2 each 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be surprised if I like them better than the Syl's, but you never know. It's their overall balance that I find so pleasing, so more of anything might be a negative (?) I'll post an impression in a week or so.


----------



## dr dougie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FYI, here are some JAN Tube Designators:

 CHS = Sylvania
 CHY = Hytron/CBS
 CRP = Raytheon
 CTL = Tung Sol
 CRC = RCA
 CNU = National Union
 CKR = Ken-Rad or (later) GE
 CG = GE_

 


 Hey thanks. The gray plate Sylvania's I have are so close to the stock GE 5654s that came with the unit that they must have been made by the same manufacturer, so my guess would be GE made them all. Only difference I can spot is slightly different slots in the plates. Based on box age (again not an expert!) I would say the gray plate Sylvania's I have are 1950's, maybe 60's and the two with black plates and halo getters are 1970's.

 I'm interested in other tubes too of course but also have my doubts about anything being better than the good Sylvanias! They have a nicely balanced sound but their selling point IMO is the amazing 3D soundstage as Penchum mentioned.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr dougie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm interested in other tubes too of course but also have my doubts about anything being better than the good Sylvanias! They have a nicely balanced sound but their selling point IMO is the amazing 3D soundstage as Penchum mentioned._

 

I'm with you on all counts. They have fantastic soundstage. I said early on that I found it difficult to describe their sound - They have great _____ - fill in the blank, across the board.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr dougie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey thanks. The gray plate Sylvania's I have are so close to the stock GE 5654s that came with the unit that they must have been made by the same manufacturer, so my guess would be GE made them all. Only difference I can spot is slightly different slots in the plates. Based on box age (again not an expert!) I would say the gray plate Sylvania's I have are 1950's, maybe 60's and the two with black plates and halo getters are 1970's.

 I'm interested in other tubes too of course but also have my doubts about anything being better than the good Sylvanias! They have a nicely balanced sound but their selling point IMO is the amazing 3D soundstage as Penchum mentioned._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm with you on all counts. They have fantastic soundstage. I said early on that I found it difficult to describe their sound - They have great _____ - fill in the blank, across the board._

 

I'm still maturing the Sylvania's I got last week. So far, very impressive. Next week, I'll try to do a small comparison between those and the GB-5654's. That will be a very tough comparison for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For a day or two prior to the comparison, I'll switch back to a favorite fun tube like the 6Z and get used to that sound again. This will help my perceptions greatly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does anyone know if DoA has posted the tube guide yet?
 Thanks!


----------



## ethebull

dgbiker and webghost,

 I've looked at your posts about installing resistors and switches to adapt the 6H30 power tubes. I don't see a direct board trace that leads to a particular pin or pins on the power tube. This has me thinking an adapter plug with resistor is not a workable option. Any thoughts?


----------



## absolutlemur

Matched pair of Amperex 5654 on the way


----------



## dan_can

I don't think matched driver tubes are critical in Little Dot amps. All my unmatched pairs work just fine.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dgbiker and webghost,

 I've looked at your posts about installing resistors and switches to adapt the 6H30 power tubes. I don't see a direct board trace that leads to a particular pin or pins on the power tube. This has me thinking an adapter plug with resistor is not a workable option. Any thoughts?_

 

I'm not sure that an adapter will work. Looking at the pictures, it looks like the resistor is in parallel with a capacitor looking from the tube socket.




 So if you add 52Ω directly to the resistor (the "old" way) you get the impedance of that branch being:
 Zeq=1/(1/(68Ω+52Ω)+jwC)=1/(1/120Ω+jwC)
 With a tube adapter it would look like:
 Zeq=52Ω+(1/(1/68Ω+jwC))
 Not sure if that would hurt anything, but it doesn't seem safe.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *absolutlemur* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Matched pair of Amperex 5654 on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Excellent! The Amperex 5654's are great tubes! Nuetral and balanced with no serious short comings. I still use them for a point of reference in judging others; one of my early favs. So now you have two choices: sit back and enjoy your great amp with some excellent upgraded driver tubes, or, jump on the looney train with the endless pursuit of the holy grail. 

 I think I'm about to jump off the train... soon... maybe....


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure that an adapter will work. Looking at the pictures, it looks like the resistor is in parallel with a capacitor looking from the tube socket._

 

Thanks dg, I could see by the board traces that my hopes for a plug solution were a long shot. This morning, David at LD confirmed this as well:

 "Hello Erik,

 Ah, if I understand what you are trying to do, adding a resistor to an adapter so that the resistor is in between the tube pin and the PCB socket will not give you the results you need to use the 6H30. Unfortunately the portion of the circuit we are talking about here is not set up in a way where such a simple and "clean" solution would work. 

 Best regards,
 David"

 Oh well. Radio shack here I come. Damn the voided warranty, those EH golds are too meaty to ignore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (sitting in my drawer, money already spent
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dan_can* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think matched driver tubes are critical in Little Dot amps. All my unmatched pairs work just fine._

 

There are a few levels of reliability to consider when buying tubes.

 First you have new current production, matched or un-matched
 NOS - as is un-tested, tested but not matched, matched and tested
 Used - as is un-tested, tested but not matched, matched and tested

 Then you have to judge the seller and their rep
 Dump all this in your risk calculator and factor in the cost...

 I've bought some great un-tested cheap stuff, I've bought NOS matched and tested that I didn't care for, though they worked fine.

 If you're like me (buying way more varieties of tubes than any reasonable person should) picking up a cheap dud is less iritating than spending big bucks on a so so tube. If you plan on buying just a few choice tubes and be done with it, buying matched at a premium price is safe and smart.


----------



## golgi

I've been doing some long term listening with my MKIII with Amperex EF92 orange labels and Tung Sol 6AK5. These two are clearly better than the stock tubes and also better the Mullard EF91 that I have. At first I used to prefer the Tung Sol but I think I now prefer the Amperex. It took the long term listening to really hear the difference between the two. The Amperex seem to have more sparkle up top and warmer but yet deeper and tighter bass. The Tung Sol have just a touch more air in the high end and seem just a tiny bit brighter.


----------



## ethebull

golgi, Do you have a picture of your EF92 Amperex you could post? I curious. Most of the EF92's I see on eBay are all Mullards and various rebadged Mullards. Not that that's a bad thing. Mullard seemed to dominate the EF92 world is all.


----------



## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you're like me (buying way more varieties of tubes than any reasonable person should) picking up a cheap dud is less iritating than spending big bucks on a so so tube. If you plan on buying just a few choice tubes and be done with it, buying matched at a premium price is safe and smart._

 


 I agree with ethebull 110%!!! I have sunk some serious cash into tubes over the last few months. I'm going to list 5 from the EF95 family that anyone who has recently gotten and amp and is ready to tube roll should consider getting:

 GE 5 Star 5654
 Sylvania Golds GB 5654
 Russian 62H1P-EV 5654
 Amperex 5654
 Tung Sol 403B (Branded as Nationals)

 Certainly, there are others that are great tubes, these are the one's I own and love. I own many others but these are the cream of the crop. You won't be disappointed in any of them.

 I probably won't be buying any more tubes unless one of you find the "holy grail" of tubes that my life won't be complete unless I own a pair. LOL! Although I will be on the lookout for another set of power tubes, however, I'm not interested in modding my amp at the present time.

 So, the conclusion on my tube rolling experience is you will be very pleased with any of the above tubes. They all have subtle differences but they are all outstanding!

 I also like the Mullard M8161 from the EF92 family but I don't listen to them much simply because I'm too lazy and find it a hassle to put the jumpers on and off.

 Happy tube rolling guys!!!!!!!!


----------



## JimSmiley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_GE 5 Star 5654
 Sylvania Golds GB 5654
 Russian 62H1P-EV 5654
 Tung Sol 403B (Branded as Nationals)
_

 

Anyone have a source for these tubes that they don't mind sharing?


----------



## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have a source for these tubes that they don't mind sharing?_

 

Jim, I got all but the Russian tubes from ebay seller Yen1233. He is outsatnding and the tubes are matched pairs.

 I think I got the Russians from ebay seller Anthony Welsh, but I might be wrong about that. 

 Hopefully helpful...

 Roger


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also like the Mullard M8161 from the EF92 family but I don't listen to them much simply because I'm too lazy and find it a hassle to put the jumpers on and off._

 

x2, I'm in the same situation and that's the main reason why I'm selling these tubes


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just rolled in some 1940's NOS Tung Sol's with black plates and side getters...

Tung-sol 6AK5 Matched Pair Little Dot MkII MkIII MkIV - eBay (item 290215068792 end time Mar-23-08 15:56:10 PDT)

 I've been saving until the amp is broken in. I now have 85 hours on the amp with the stock ones. They haven't been broken in yet, but the highs are already sweeter and extend further up. The lows are still a bit fluffy and not as big as the stock burned in ones, but as these burn in I think they'll fatten and tighten up nicely. The 3D and sound stage is already more present too.

 I'm going to keep my eyes out for some mil-spec Sylvania's too. I'd like to compare them._

 

Well they do sound sweeter and 'closer' than stock, but they've become VERY micro phonic. Even jiggling the cable to my phones can vibrate them enough to be heard over the music. Did I get some duds?


----------



## ethebull

"Doc, It hurts when I bend over like this"

 - Doc says, "Stop bending over like that"

 You might try a tube damper ring. - Hardware store -cheap-, orange colored round cross-section gaskets that fit over the tube. 

 Maybe that's why getters aren't on the side anymore?

 2 cents

 Sorry to hear of a bum roll,

 E


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2, I'm in the same situation and that's the main reason why I'm selling these tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

How does the sound from the 8161s compare to the Telefunken EF91s (before they distort)? 
 I'm looking for something with similar sound... but something that works
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It sounded like the 8161s might do the trick.


----------



## batmanwcm

I just received 2 Mullard 8161's yesterday. 

 Too bad I'm still waiting for the stock replacement power tube that was shipped out Friday from China. It just cleared customs today so hopefully I should get it tomorrow.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the sound from the 8161s compare to the Telefunken EF91s (before they distort)? 
 I'm looking for something with similar sound... but something that works
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It sounded like the 8161s might do the trick._

 

That is probably the closest you are going to find. The M8161 is the "poster child" for the default Mullard sound. It truly is a very nice sounding tube.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *golgi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been doing some long term listening with my MKIII with Amperex EF92 orange labels and Tung Sol 6AK5. These two are clearly better than the stock tubes and also better the Mullard EF91 that I have. At first I used to prefer the Tung Sol but I think I now prefer the Amperex. It took the long term listening to really hear the difference between the two. The Amperex seem to have more sparkle up top and warmer but yet deeper and tighter bass. The Tung Sol have just a touch more air in the high end and seem just a tiny bit brighter._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_golgi, Do you have a picture of your EF92 Amperex you could post? I curious. Most of the EF92's I see on eBay are all Mullards and various rebadged Mullards. Not that that's a bad thing. Mullard seemed to dominate the EF92 world is all._

 

I've been trying for months to lock down the story on Amperex EF92's. I have a set of Amperex EF92 Bugle Boys that I got for $11 + shipping on eBay. Come to find out, they are considered somewhat rare! They are not built like my Mullards and definitely don't sound like Mullards. They have a very unique sound and I like to think of them as the best EF92's I have. They have the little cartoon character tube boy blowing his horn on them.

 If anyone finds out info on the Bugle Boy series, please post it. Maybe this is Amperex's own build?? Thanks!


----------



## ethebull

You see United Electron with some regularity. Made in the USA - so not a Mullard rebadge. I don't know the story on Amperex BB EF92's or others though.


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been trying for months to lock down the story on Amperex EF92's. I have a set of Amperex EF92 Bugle Boys that I got for $11 + shipping on eBay. Come to find out, they are considered somewhat rare! They are not built like my Mullards and definitely don't sound like Mullards. They have a very unique sound and I like to think of them as the best EF92's I have. They have the little cartoon character tube boy blowing his horn on them.

 If anyone finds out info on the Bugle Boy series, please post it. Maybe this is Amperex's own build?? Thanks!_

 

Maybe this will help?
History - Amperex


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe this will help?
History - Amperex_

 

Thanks for the link! I ran into this site late one night but forgot to add it to my favs and then couldn't find it again. So it does seem like Amperex made the Bugle Boys. Thats cool! They really do sound excellent.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If anyone finds out info on the Bugle Boy series, please post it. Maybe this is Amperex's own build?? Thanks!_

 

I'm pretty sure I read that Bugle boys are Holland built Amperex's which were specifically engineered for high quality audio. They are rare, and sound really great in guitar amps! Good find!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm pretty sure I read that Bugle boys are Holland built Amperex's which were specifically engineered for high quality audio. They are rare, and sound really great in guitar amps! Good find!_

 

I got really lucky with them. The seller just had them listed only as EF92s. So I sent him a message and asked what brand they were. He replied they were Amperex's, so I did the BIN thing. When they arrived, I about fell out of my chair when I saw they were Bugle Boys. Sadly, I haven't found another set for sale since then.


----------



## golgi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_golgi, Do you have a picture of your EF92 Amperex you could post? I curious. Most of the EF92's I see on eBay are all Mullards and various rebadged Mullards. Not that that's a bad thing. Mullard seemed to dominate the EF92 world is all._

 

Certainly:









 On the box it says the box is made in Holland. The tubes say they are made in Great Brittain. Although the boxes don't have any date on them, they do look to be fairly old and discolored. The cardboard is kind of falling apart and is very delicate. I wonder how old these things are. I also got these for a low price on ebay.


----------



## absolutlemur

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe this will help?
History - Amperex_

 

Lots of info, thanks!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jim, I got all but the Russian tubes from ebay seller Yen1233. He is outsatnding and the tubes are matched pairs._

 

I bought the Amperex tubes from him. Shipped quickly and packed well. My order arrived today, actually - off to clean the pins and try them out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: The dealer must have cleaned the pins... nice! 5 hours on them as of now, so far so good.


----------



## ethebull

I'm pretty confident they are Mullards. Here's two I own, one with Mullard shield, one not branded but identical in construction and sound.


----------



## JimSmiley

Where do you guys buy stuff to clean the pins? Do you use De-oxit or something special. Just spray or scrub a little too? Just the pins right? You don't spray anything into the connectors do you? 

 I'm such a rookie..but I'm having a blast!!


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *golgi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On the box it says the box is made in Holland. The tubes say they are made in Great Brittain. Although the boxes don't have any date on them, they do look to be fairly old and discolored. I wonder how old these things are._

 

The made in GB is a sure sign they're Mullard made. 1969 I'd guess. (number in your pic)


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the sound from the 8161s compare to the Telefunken EF91s (before they distort)? 
 I'm looking for something with similar sound... but something that works
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It sounded like the 8161s might do the trick._

 

It's hard to compare because of the distortion that I have with the Telefunken. I'd say that the Mullard have a lot of similarities with my Tung-Sol. Maybe I'll try to burn the Telefunken again (24hrs) to see if that can fix the problem.


----------



## ethebull

Holy Sh!t!! My amp exploded!!


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy Sh!t!! My amp exploded!!_


----------



## golgi

It is possible that they may just be rebranded. However I have Mullard EF91 which also look very similar but don't sound anywhere near as good. I think tubes in the same family can look very similar and still be quite different.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *golgi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is possible that they may just be rebranded. However I have Mullard EF91 which also look very similar but don't sound anywhere near as good. I think tubes in the same family can look very similar and still be quite different._

 

I'm not attempting to disparage your tubes, just vetting the facts - a fact finding mission for self-education and for all. 

 I totally agree with "I think tubes in the same family can look very similar and still be quite different". You have to be very careful in correlating physical to the audible, but the plate cut-outs in your tubes and the ones I posted are too close for coincidence. Most of the EF95's I have (13 varieties) look a lot alike, but there are minor differences. Also Amperex never had a plant in the U.K. from what I've read. Any Amperex, house made, would be US or Holland in origin.

 EF91's are known to be problematic in all LD amps so SQ of Mullard EF91's would not reflect on Mullard EF92's or EF95's.

 Any one wanna take sides 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (just kidding)


----------



## golgi

I didn't realize they didn't have plants in the UK. In that case you probably are correct then. 

 Oh well, I got some good tubes at low price that sound great but aren't real Amperex. But at least now I've got something to look forward to since I could search for some real Amperex tubes in which case they should sound even better.


----------



## dr dougie

Again I'm not really a tube expert but the whole Philips/Amperex/Mullard/Sylvania etc. conglomerate was a mess with factories making each others' designs. Mullard made tubes that were sold under all kinds of brand names. Also communist Russia and China copied Western tubes including Mullards.


----------



## ethebull

^ x2

 And it's not just the above mentioned companies. Add to that the moving target of model naming, multiple international "standards" for tube typing... It is a tangled cluster


----------



## golgi

I'm glad you pointed this out because I would have gone along thinking that I had these Amperex so no point in trying out some other tubes since I had some of the best. But now I know better. My wallet does not thank you, ethebull


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *golgi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm glad you pointed this out because I would have gone along thinking that I had these Amperex so no point in trying out some other tubes since I had some of the best. But now I know better. My wallet does not thank you, ethebull 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

er, your welcome ?

 I like my Mullard EF92's just fine BTW. However my experience is limited to just three EF92's. There aren't nearly as many out there in todays market compared to EF95 types, and I suppose there never were.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well they do sound sweeter and 'closer' than stock, but they've become VERY micro phonic. Even jiggling the cable to my phones can vibrate them enough to be heard over the music. Did I get some duds?_

 

The problem has become even more pronounced as I come up on 50 hours of tube burn-in. between songs I can hear them howling. I think I got a bum set.
 ethebull, I may be bidding on your tubes soon.


----------



## ethebull

I'll extend a defect exchange policy to any head-fi'er with 50 posts or more on my 5pr pack for sale. (not offered in my listing, but this shouldn't be an issue in any case) Mail them back to me and I'll mail out a replacement pair N/C


----------



## JimSmiley

Anybody else using Grados with their Little Dot III? I've been changing the gain settings a bit, but I can never get the volume past 12:00. The factory default of 3 (both on) should be the lowest gain right? I.E. at 3 my volume knob should go the highest with the least amount of volume. BTW--my cans are 32 ohm.

 TIA


----------



## ethebull

My AKG's are low impedance, but out put level in relation to volume knob settings is mostly a function of sensitivity, more commonly referred to as efficiency.

 I'm not following this part of your question:

 "I.E. at 3 my volume knob should go the highest with the least amount of volume."

 The basic purpose of the gain setting capabilities of this or any amp, is to give the user a comfortable volume sensitivity where you can adjust to desirable levels with without a hair trigger, and max safe levels are well below full clockwise rotation. 

 If this doesn't help, please elaborate.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody else using Grados with their Little Dot III? I've been changing the gain settings a bit, but I can never get the volume past 12:00. The factory default of 3 (both on) should be the lowest gain right? I.E. at 3 my volume knob should go the highest with the least amount of volume. BTW--my cans are 32 ohm.

 TIA_

 

I leave my MKIII on the 10 gain setting with my SR225s because my K701s need K=10 and I'm too lazy to switch it everytime
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As ethebull stated, the gain setting just changes how sensitive the volume knob is. For example, at K=3 your amp can output 0-80dB (made up the figure), while at K=10 it might go up to 0-130dB over the same physical range of knob rotation. Because it's a logarithmic scale things aren't exactly linear, so a gain of 6 isn't necessarily twice as loud as a gain of 3.

 It's good practice to run your amp at the smallest gain you are comfortable with, as higher gains are more susceptible to picking up noise/interference.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 It's good practice to run your amp at the smallest gain you are comfortable with, as higher gains are more susceptible to picking up noise/interference._

 

This brings up an interesting topic. My understanding of the LD gain switches is (from reading other posts) they are actually open circuits at gain 10 - "not on". When switch 1 or 2 is set to on, the amp introduces negative feedback to reduce the gain. So for SQ, which is better? The sonic effect (in theory) of an open volume control (a positive), or the negative influence (in theory) of negative feedback?

 My intuition is that short of upgraging to a ladder resistor type VC, gain 10 (no negative feedback) will yield the best subjective SQ. It's probably not worth worring about though in practice. The gain setting for optimal ease of use is what was intended.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This brings up an interesting topic. My understanding of the LD gain switches is (from reading other posts) they are actually open circuits at gain 10 - "not on". When switch 1 or 2 is set to on, the amp introduces negative feedback to reduce the gain._

 

That's interesting, I didn't realize it operates as both open and closed loop. That certainly makes a difference.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My intuition is that short of upgraging to a ladder resistor type VC, gain 10 (no negative feedback) will yield the best subjective SQ. It's probably not worth worring about though in practice. The gain setting for optimal ease of use is what was intended._

 

This reminds me of my days working in a bike shop when people would freak out over titanium bolts or exotic suspension systems. My boss would always say "which one puts the biggest smile on your face?" (In my case it was always the heavy, inefficient, brute-force bikes that should be "bad" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 You can't lose sight of the fact that this should be a FUN hobby, getting the last 0.01% from your volume control isn't gonna save lives. If you can't hear the difference, it's not worth thinking about- just enjoy your music


----------



## JimSmiley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's good practice to run your amp at the smallest gain you are comfortable with, as higher gains are more susceptible to picking up noise/interference._

 

That's what I'm thinking. Even at 3 (the lowest gain) I never turn the potentiometer past halfway. 

 For my home set up, I turn my amp to 75% of full and control the volume with the pre-amp--hence my confusion. Thanks for clearing it up.


----------



## JimSmiley

Has anyone here ever bought from e-bay seller roschn1. He has a pair of matched Sylvania Gold 6AK5 up for sale. Price is 50.00. Is this about the going rate?


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For my home set up, I turn my amp to 75% of full and control the volume with the pre-amp--hence my confusion. Thanks for clearing it up._

 

I was kinda thinking of running my MKIII 'wide open' with no dip switch attenuation as well. Then using the pre-amp selection with my ZERO, and attenuating volume there as a pre-amp. Seems to me this would yield the 'purest' signal...


----------



## Mike_TNT

I'm using mine with a pair of sr325i's and I'm trying to accommodate the gain settings to also be used with a hd580. Gain setting 10 doesn't sound bad at all with the Grado but I have to watch out with being volume happy. I try not to go over 10 or 12. If I use the lower gains I need to turn up the volume much more for my Senns. Is that taxing for the amp?

 I also have a RA1 amp that's being repaired so once I get it back I might just use it for the Grado in combination with the LD as a pre-amp. Wonder how that will turn out.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was kinda thinking of running my MKIII 'wide open' with no dip switch attenuation as well. Then using the pre-amp selection with my ZERO, and attenuating volume there as a pre-amp. Seems to me this would yield the 'purest' signal..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using mine with a pair of sr325i's and I'm trying to accommodate the gain settings to also be used with a hd580. Gain setting 10 doesn't sound bad at all with the Grado but I have to watch out with being volume happy. I try not to go over 10 or 12. If I use the lower gains I need to turn up the volume much more for my Senns. Is that taxing for the amp?

 I also have a RA1 amp that's being repaired so once I get it back I might just use it for the Grado in combination with the LD as a pre-amp. Wonder how that will turn out._

 

Oat, it might in theory, but I'm not sure it will be something you could hear. Let us know how this works out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 MT, you might try a gain of 5. That should be middle ground for those two headphones, I think. Using the MKIII as a "tube filter" pre-amp works very well. I did several experiments with this and it behaves just like it does for headphones. The better the tube set installed, the better the output signal is SQ wise. Doing this with my mini T-amp system, produced very nice results. The digital edge was gone, better bass and those nice mids!!


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oat, it might in theory, but I'm not sure it will be something you could hear. Let us know how this works out_

 

Probably not. I thought I had read a few things in the past about how tubes like to be run hard or something... It kind of appeals to the audio purist in me. I'm sure it's no more difference than people who swear power cord upgrades affect sound.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Probably not. I thought I had read a few things in the past about how tubes like to be run hard or something... It kind of appeals to the audio purist in me. I'm sure it's no more difference than people who swear power cord upgrades affect sound._

 

Agreed. I leave all my amps at gain 10, so they each behave nearly the same. I have spent hours trying to find a SQ difference between gain settings and have never experienced a difference so far.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For anyone looking to make some Bulldapters, I just ordered a bunch of these:

Vacuum Tube Socket Savers 9 Pin (10 pieces) - eBay (item 130215311246 end time Apr-21-08 16:51:30 PDT)_

 

Do Not order these for making adapters. The pins are not anchored to the bottom, they are soldered to the socket tabs and pass through the base holes. Interupting this one piece design to reroute pin locations would not be easy.

 I'm going to glue them in a row to a piece of wood and stick my power tube collection in them - a storage rack.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Didn't you say you had a couple you'd sell me?
 Experimentation is why we're here!_

 

Not the 6H30PI, the 6N6P's. I'll send you a set for free if you need them.Just PM me.

 Sorry about not being around the last few days to answer your question Oatmeal. My comp's drives were baked by a nasty thunder storm/lightning strike (last Friday afternoon) and the UPS took most of the hit....not enough of it though. I suppose I should consider myself lucky that the mobo, cpu, and ram didn't get killed as well.

 Lucky I had my LD and other stuff unplugged at the time. I was smart enough to unplug everything else......what a dummy I am. Lesson learned !!

 Well enough about that. Snow on Monday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What a fooked up spring


----------



## Pricklely Peete

E, I ran across your tube pack on eBay. Might just bid on it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The exploded amp view is nice. You going with the 6H30PI golds ? Resistor swap or adding toggles ?

 Found a sale for Raytheon 6AK5W's for 10 bucks a pair with 91 (pr's ?) available.

 Here's the link for anyone interested. 

PAIR OF MATCHED JAN 6AK5W TUBES - (eBay.ca item 160117790359 end time 10-May-08 15:33:25 EDT)


 I'm gettin' a couple pairs for the hell of it


----------



## Pricklely Peete

E, do you have any gear that use's 12AU7's ?


----------



## Mike_TNT

Does anyone have any info on the Voshod tubes yen1233 is selling? I like those rockets.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_E, I ran across your tube pack on eBay. Might just bid on it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The exploded amp view is nice. You going with the 6H30PI golds ? Resistor swap or adding toggles ?
_

 

Yep, toggle to switch back and forth at 120/ 68 ohms, a la Webghost. I'll post some picks and a how-to guide. I haven't procured the resistors needed yet - one or two 1W min per channel that total 52 ohms or there abouts. Tomorrow I'll poke around locally.

 12AU7's ? No. My tube pre uses 6922's for which I have a liftime's supply of Telsa -Telefunken copies that I like. I have a EL34/6SN7 based tube power amp currently not in the mix.

 Why do you ask?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I just thought I'd return the favor you so graciously granted me a while back with a matched pair of Baldwin 12AU7's (Japanese Mullard plant) from a lot of 4 pairs I bought a few weeks ago.

 I'm looking forward to your mod. I'm pretty much going to go this route as well after the warranty expires. 

 In your pic that toroid PS looks like a well made piece of kit. Kinda surprised to see one in an amp that costs so little when you take into consideration the other quality parts. It might be worthwhile to add some high quality film bypass caps where needed. Wring the last vestige of SQ from the MK III so to speak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What brand of caps are the 220uf 200V ? 

 Peete.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have any info on the Voshod tubes yen1233 is selling? I like those rockets. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Penchum "discovered" these. He posted several times over the last few months. I included them in my last group comparison. 

 Search 6Z1P-EV


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just thought I'd return the favor you so graciously granted me a while back with a matched pair of Baldwin 12AU7's (Japanese Mullard plant) from a lot of 4 pairs I bought a few weeks ago.

 I'm looking forward to your mod. I'm pretty much going to go this route as well after the warranty expires. 

 In your pic that toroid PS looks like a well made piece of kit. Kinda surprised to see one in an amp that costs so little when you take into consideration the other quality parts. It might be worthwhile to add some high quality film bypass caps where needed. Wring the last vestige of SQ from the MK III so to speak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What brand of caps are the 220uf 200V ? 

 Peete._

 

I thought we were gonna get together at a pub for some brewski's

 I was like Wow! when I opened the cap on the toroid. Beefy! - for a $200 tube amp? The back caps are Rubi's, the mid two are 270uF 220V, brand is not clear to me. Markings: 30IIUG , "Boxed M" CE GH That's all that's printed on'em

 Now that I'm a snip and a soldering iron away from trashing my warranty, I'd be curious about where the basic layout might benifit from some carefully chosen replacements or additions. What are your specific thoughts?


----------



## Henmyr

Anyone know where to get the Sylvania 6AK5WB? The "Sylvania 5654 Black Plate, Round Getter's".

 This is my first tube amp, and I'm having a real trouble finding tubes. Since "Sylvania 5654 Black Plate, Round Getter's" seems to be one of the best but still not expensive, I would like to try this one first (and hopefully last
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 EDIT: I would also be interested in the RAYTHEON JRP-6AK5.

 EDIT2: Are these: PAIR OF MATCHED JAN 6AK5W TUBES - (eBay.ca item 160117790359 end time 10-May-08 15:33:25 EDT)
 the RAYTHEON JRP-6AK5?


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know where to get the Sylvania 6AK5WB? The "Sylvania 5654 Black Plate, Round Getter's".

 This is my first tube amp, and I'm having a real trouble finding tubes. Since "Sylvania 5654 Black Plate, Round Getter's" seems to be one of the best but still not expensive, I would like to try this one first (and hopefully last
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 EDIT: I would also be interested in the RAYTHEON JRP-6AK5.

 EDIT2: Are these: PAIR OF MATCHED JAN 6AK5W TUBES - (eBay.ca item 160117790359 end time 10-May-08 15:33:25 EDT)
 the RAYTHEON JRP-6AK5?_

 

Different tubes pop up sporadically on eBay. Right now the Sylvania is the hot tube. The sellers who list them for $4-5 don't pay attention to this thread and I'm sure they'll be up on eBay again.

 They are Raytheons, but the box says 12/81. The ones Trapper32 really likes were from 10/43. Chances are they changed them in 40 years time. I haven't received my order of 1943's yet.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Different tubes pop up sporadically on eBay. Right now the Sylvania is the hot tube. The sellers who list them for $4-5 don't pay attention to this thread and I'm sure they'll be up on eBay again.
_

 

x2

 I've bought all of my tubes on eBay. Patience and persistence in searching is the key...


----------



## ethebull

Here's my eBay search for LD driver tubes:

 (*403A, *403b, 408a, 408b, *415A, 5654*, *5654, 5591, CV4010, CV5216, CV8246, 6069, CV10442, EF95*, M8100, 6AK5*, CV10100, CV8159, CV8225, CV850, 6J1, EF92, 6CQ6, CV2023, V884, VP6, M8161, CV131, 9D6, W77) -wireless 

 Copy the above, paste it in the eBay search window, select Consumer Electronics for the result, and Save This Search, to your favorites and get an email every day with the newest listings.


----------



## RogerB

I just went over to ebay and looked at the auction ethebull has going now for 5 pairs of tubes. 

 If you are new to tube rolling and somewhat confused by it all I have a very simple recommendation to make.

 BID ON ETHEBULL's AUCTION!!!!!!!!!!!

 These are 5 great tubes!!!! Any one of them will make you happy but here you have a chance to get all 5 of these great tubes in one easy shot!!!

 And no........ethebull isn't giving me a commission for posting this. LOL!! I'm just trying to help some people out because I know how confusing this can be when you are first getting started.

 Get Em!!!!!!!!


----------



## ethebull

I was going to post a how-to guide on installing switched resistors for using 6H30 power tubes in the MkIII. I’ll let you know how they sound in the near future, but I don’t want to be the one to encourage a bunch of owners to take on this project.

 This amp is not easy access. Pulling the board out and shoving it back in is a real bear. This one piece chassis shell is tight as a sphincter. There are two heavy bundles of wire from the transformer, right in the way, it’s like digging between and through roots from a tree inside. Two trees.

 Royal PITA!!!


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not the 6H30PI, the 6N6P's. I'll send you a set for free if you need them.Just PM me._

 

PM Sent Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry about not being around the last few days to answer your question Oatmeal. My comp's drives were baked by a nasty thunder storm/lightning strike (last Friday afternoon) and the UPS took most of the hit....not enough of it though. I suppose I should consider myself lucky that the mobo, cpu, and ram didn't get killed as well._

 

Ugghh! I keep hiding my head in the sand about power protection too! I need to do this.


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RogerB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just went over to ebay and looked at the auction ethebull has going now for 5 pairs of tubes. 

 If you are new to tube rolling and somewhat confused by it all I have a very simple recommendation to make.

 BID ON ETHEBULL's AUCTION!!!!!!!!!!!

 These are 5 great tubes!!!! Any one of them will make you happy but here you have a chance to get all 5 of these great tubes in one easy shot!!!

 And no........ethebull isn't giving me a commission for posting this. LOL!! I'm just trying to help some people out because I know how confusing this can be when you are first getting started.

 Get Em!!!!!!!!_

 

Hey, don't do this please, I am bidding on them from the beginning and you are driving up the price......
	

	
	
		
		

		
			













 Just kidding, this is a great set of tubes and I hope ethebull will get a good price on them. Hope my max bid is enough though
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Twelve hours to go and counting........


----------



## ethebull

I got the ten pack of Raytheon 6AK5's yesterday. Construction on these is quite unusual. The plate body is wide and narrow, cross section shaped like a football or a zeppelin. The mica plates are small in diameter, top and bottom, and the getter is what I would call a flag getter. There is silvering only in the nook where the flag getter stands, and they do glow bright! Boxes have a musty musky smell they’ve earned, sitting nearly 65 years on a shelf. 

 They are burning in now, along with my EH Golds. 

 Winning bidder on my 5 pack can get a pair of Rays for $5 additional, if they want.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have any info on the Voshod tubes yen1233 is selling? I like those rockets. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

They look pretty good, he's right that not all Russian tubes were created equal. A while back when Penchum discovered these I got a batch that were more microphonic than a corrugated metal roof on a rainy day. Eventually I found some 6J1P-EB's that were great sounding with outstanding soundstage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - DoA


----------



## Snicewicz

Sorry but I do not have the time to look through all 70 pages but,

 is there a consensus on what sounds best with the HD650?


----------



## JimSmiley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hope my max bid is enough though
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Twelve hours to go and counting........_

 

Exactly what is that max bid amount?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Inquiring bidders want to know.


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly what is that max bid amount?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Inquiring bidders want to know._

 

I ....... can....... not........tell....... you.......sworn.......secrecy


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ....... can....... not........tell....... you.......sworn.......secrecy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL, well I was the max bidder for about two minutes at $75... I'm not sure I couldn't find them individually for about that with some patience...


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, well I was the max bidder for about two minutes at $75... I'm not sure I couldn't find them individually for about that with some patience..._

 

So that was you
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 I am sure they can be bought individually for that price.
 For me it would be more expensive considering the shipping cost to my country.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PM SentUgghh! I keep hiding my head in the sand about power protection too! I need to do this._

 

Yep. Another one of those "I didn't do" items that gets you when you least expect it too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 While I don't think it necessary to go "all out" on power protection, I do use some sort of protection on all my electronics. I have a UPS system to handle my desktop and notebook computers, and I use Philips surge protectors for everything else. The Philips have 6 foot cords (which is great) and a bunch of plugs for both regular and wall warts. They can lay down, or stand up, so they work well in shelving units when you stand them up behind the equipment for hiding and they use up very little space this way.


----------



## ethebull

Is Tomr200199 a member here? (won my auction) If so, PM me to let me know.


----------



## Penchum

Ethebull, (and others interested)

 Just a quick note to let you know that my Aural (Oral
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) Ecstasy TAD-805SD speakers are starting to open up finally! (350hrs) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yesterday afternoon, all of a sudden they got more bass. By the end of the day, they started to have proper 3D positioning to the sound stage. I was really freaked at first, because the change happened so fast, I actually stopped what I was doing and looked over at them, thinking, "what the hell is going on here!", then I realized what had changed and had a good laugh on my behalf. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, I hooked my MKIII (with EH-6H30PI Golds/Sylvania 5654WBs) in-line as a tube pre-amp and that gave a tremendously nice sound to them! You would have not believed I was powering them (digital source) from a Super T-Amp! I was pleased that the sonic properties of the tubes were maintained during amplification, and could be heard easily. Another excellent use for the MKIII. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My mini-system (without the MKIII) is starting to sound very much like an expensive system, but totals only @$500. That would be a Zero, a Super-T amp and the TAD-805SD's. Hummmm. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll see how the TAD-805SD's mature and then I'll know if they must have a sub-woofer or not. It looks promising so far. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If my understanding is correct, I have about another 300 hours to go before the TAD-805SD's are considered "matured". I run them daily, as much as I can. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For $169, I sure can't complain. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe they will have a summer sale this year? That would be nice.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

That MK III makes for an impressive pre amp don't it Pench 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My (new) MC 7R is finally sounding good after 125 (and counting) hrs of burn in. Quite impressive imaging, sound stage depth, bass delineation and extension is the best I've heard from a tube pre-amp. Very impressed so far. The new ribbons in the LFT's has elevated the speaker from very good to absolutely great. I'm stunned by the contrast from the old ribbons to the new ones.

 Those TD speakers look like a great deal. Look like mini B&W monitors . Very cool. Are they voiced like B&W or are they warmer ?



 PS. My Meixing MC -7R has Mundorf MKP supreme film caps, solid solder joints, clean PP build quality,Rubicon and BHC Aerovox electrolytic caps. Impressive heavy, well made tranny's and a choke (for the tube plate B+ I think).All resistors are 1 or 2 watt metal films. Solid core teflon coated copper wire (looks like 16 gauge )


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought we were gonna get together at a pub for some brewski's

 I was like Wow! when I opened the cap on the toroid. Beefy! - for a $200 tube amp? The back caps are Rubi's, the mid two are 270uF 220V, brand is not clear to me. Markings: 30IIUG , "Boxed M" CE GH That's all that's printed on'em

 Now that I'm a snip and a soldering iron away from trashing my warranty, I'd be curious about where the basic layout might benifit from some carefully chosen replacements or additions. What are your specific thoughts?_

 


 The brewski thing is on brother and stands anytime your in the neighborhood (regardless of favors) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd like to know where some bypass would work as well. I'm not well versed enough ( with tube circuits) to suggest where. I bet Jamato8 would know what could be done to the MK III to increase it's performance. 
 I emailed David about cap swaps and he really didn't answer any of my questions in that regard. I didn't ask him about cap bypassing though.

 Good luck with the resistor mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and reassembly


----------



## dgbiker1

This is likely a very stupid question, but do I risk damaging the amp if I run different driver tubes (both 403B/EF95 family) for each channel? I doubt it, but I just want to make sure the power section doesn't need any sort of precise load balancing.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That MK III makes for an impressive pre amp don't it Pench 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My (new) MC 7R is finally sounding good after 125 (and counting) hrs of burn in. Quite impressive imaging, sound stage depth, bass delineation and extension is the best I've heard from a tube pre-amp. Very impressed so far. The new ribbons in the LFT's has elevated the speaker from very good to absolutely great. I'm stunned by the contrast from the old ribbons to the new ones.

 Those TD speakers look like a great deal. Look like mini B&W monitors . Very cool. Are they voiced like B&W or are they warmer ?



 PS. My Meixing MC -7R has Mundorf MKP supreme film caps, solid solder joints, clean PP build quality,Rubicon and BHC Aerovox electrolytic caps. Impressive heavy, well made tranny's and a choke (for the tube plate B+ I think).All resistors are 1 or 2 watt metal films. Solid core teflon coated copper wire (looks like 16 gauge )_

 

E said he thought the same thing about the TAD's, so that must be correct. They require a ton of "maturing" time, but already the changes I've heard are very nice. Time will tell. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man, that pre-amp sounds like a keeper! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad you upgraded your speakers too. All together, you should be in audio heaven by now!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_E said he thought the same thing about the TAD's, so that must be correct. They require a ton of "maturing" time, but already the changes I've heard are very nice. Time will tell. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man, that pre-amp sounds like a keeper! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad you upgraded your speakers too. All together, you should be in audio heaven by now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I am Pench.......thanks for the kind words. The kicker is I'm listening to this thing with just the stock tubes in it and am loving it. With top shelf NOS tubes waiting to go in.......well you know....audio nirvana 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What type of tweeter is used on the TAD's ? Are the bass drivers kevlar weave ?

 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'm seriously considering a pair of TAD 1000 artisan series mono blocks from Paul. I'll have to sell a kidney .......


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is likely a very stupid question, but do I risk damaging the amp if I run different driver tubes (both 403B/EF95 family) for each channel? I doubt it, but I just want to make sure the power section doesn't need any sort of precise load balancing._

 

My wise neighbor always says "there is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid answers" . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That being said I'm not sure if using different types of driver ( EF95/403B family) will harm the amp or not. SQ will be affected and not for the better is my guess. 


 Peete.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My wise neighbor always says "there is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid answers" . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That being said I'm not sure if using different types of driver ( EF95/403B family) will harm the amp or not. SQ will be affected and not for the better is my guess. 


 Peete._

 

Yea, I was just thinking of doing it to compare tubes. Unfortunately the point is moot now since I lost the auction I was look at- 3 Ericssons + 1 Western Electric. I figured I was getting Ericssons and a WE sample, but someone stole them in the last 3 seconds
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 BTW: Anyone have any experience with either Western Electric or Ericsson? The Ericssons seem to be pretty rare, but WEs are plentiful. I'm tempted to try the WE 408A tubes.
5 NOS WESTERN ELECTRIC 6028 PENTODE TUBE - Sub for 408A - eBay (item 230245500062 end time Apr-28-08 17:55:18 PDT)


----------



## ethebull

Raytheon is a division of Western Electric.

 If you install two different driver tubes left and right, your amp will spin counter clockwise and tangle up your cords. Reverse them if you wish it to spin clockwise to untangle the mess.


----------



## ethebull

P, @$169 delivered, I'd say you're already in the great buy side of the bell curve.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The brewski thing is on brother and stands anytime your in the neighborhood (regardless of favors) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd like to know where some bypass would work as well. I'm not well versed enough ( with tube circuits) to suggest where. I bet Jamato8 would know what could be done to the MK III to increase it's performance. 
 I emailed David about cap swaps and he really didn't answer any of my questions in that regard. I didn't ask him about cap bypassing though.

 Good luck with the resistor mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and reassembly_

 

Now that my switches are installed and the amp is back together and working, I will not be yanking the board out again for any reason, short of component failure. The only way I would consider it would be if I re-boxed the unit in a different chassis - with a more serviceable design.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am Pench.......thanks for the kind words. The kicker is I'm listening to this thing with just the stock tubes in it and am loving it. With top shelf NOS tubes waiting to go in.......well you know....audio nirvana 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What type of tweeter is used on the TAD's ? Are the bass drivers kevlar weave ?

 Regards,

 Peete._

 

It lists the tweeter as: 1-1/4" Perforated Poly-Dome Top Tweeter with high-low selection switch - tweet plays 1/10th as lound as the main driver - there to give cymbals an edge, and precise imagery

 It lists the bass driver as: Directly Wired 6-3/4" 8-Ohm Wide Band woven Kevlar Strand Main Single Driver(SD)

 Here is the unique part: Cabinet and Drivers are Custom Designed to work together without a crossover board
 No Crossover Design = No phase shift midrange blur

 Here is the site for them: http://www.angelfire.com/biz/bizzyb/TAD805SD.html

 It is fun listening to them as they mature.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_P, @$169 delivered, I'd say you're already in the great buy side of the bell curve._

 

True! The piano black cabinets are worth that much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My wife thinks they are "spacey" because of the bullets on top. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got my Pioneer Integrated Amp (SA-9500-II) out of storage, so I can pump some watts at them for extended periods of time. That should loosen the tight Kevlar.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now that my switches are installed and the amp is back together and working, I will not be yanking the board out again for any reason, short of component failure. The only way I would consider it would be if I re-boxed the unit in a different chassis - with a more serviceable design._

 

I tried to warn everyone that it was more difficult than usual. But, thats what you get in order to have that sleek thinner looking design, which I do love the looks of. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now that you have the mod done, you will probably never go in there again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Time to put some hours on those EH's. I'm interested in how you perceive them (after break in).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe PP will do his next.


----------



## ethebull

Back on 3/09/08, I posted Part I of a comprehensive tube shoot-out. With best intentions, I promised a follow-up in a week or two. More tubes were on the way, and I wanted to include impressions using the 6H30 power tubes. I took my time investigating mods vs. adapters (do I really want to void my warranty?) and after considerable consternation, my MK III is now modded to use 6H30’s

*New Drivers:*

 RCA JRC 6AK5 (1943) silver plates, square angled getters
 Tung Sol 6AK5 (1965) flat grey ribbed plates, bent squared D-getters
 Sylvania 6AK5WB (60’s or 70’s ?) shiny black plates with 3 vertically stacked, nearly square windows on opposing narrower walls, round halo getters. 
 Raytheon 6AK5 (1944) small curved black plates, flag getter

*Power Tubes:*

 Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold pins (current production)
 IBM 7044 tall grey plates, D-getters
 - these power tubes were on hand for Part I but not formally reviewed:
 Arcturus 7044 (40’s)
 Tung Sol 5687 black plates, D or horseshoe getters 
 GE 5-Star 5687 (1961) jet black plates, halo getters 
 - All compared to Russian 6H6n-N (6H6Pi) - the “stock” power tube

 First the new *Drivers*:

 The physical construction of my *RCA JRC 6AK5’s* mirrors Penchum’s early Sylvania 6AK5 with silver plates and square getters (same tube different label?). Sonically decent, they are a lot like the 5654A GE’s I have and reviewed last time - a step up from the stock GE’s, but not in the league with Mobile Audios.

*Tung Sol 6AK5’s *- See my thoughts on the Amperex 5654 in Part I. They are kiss’in cousins - a nice step up from the RCA JRC’s

*Sylvania 6AK5WB* After reading glowing reports on the Gold Brand Sylvanias, I thought perhaps their less expensive brethren might come close. There are several different Syl-6AK5’s, so I looked for physical equivalents to the GB. These don’t have gold plated pins, and QC was likely less stringent, but hey, with a price difference of 5-10 fold, you can’t go wrong here. Great sound stage, outstanding midrange and vocal realism, … they are hard to fault. Balanced across the spectrum, and devoid of ultradetailstereophileitis. Penchum about wore out his Rush files in trying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but he was hard pressed to distinguish them sonically from the GB‘s, so far. Lets just say they are among a small handful of tubes (maybe 3 or 4) that every LD owner should scurry to find. There is synergy here, regardless of your front end or headphone choice. 

 Trapper32 posted his love for his *Raytheon 6AK5’s*, above and beyond the Sylvania WB - “I think the Raytheon's have a cleaner sound with more air if that's possible, more detail…” @$20 delivered for 10, I couldn’t say no. Do they better the Sylvanias? 

 These can sound really good, but they are prone to microphonics, more than any other I’ve tried. Have you ever heard a school yard swing set on a windy day? The chain-swings causing the metal pipes to ping and sing? It’s interesting, because you can hear this with the volume all the way down by touching the volume knob, or lightly tapping on the HP cord near the plug end. Ok, sitting back in my chair with the music at a good clip, the problem is no longer on the radar, and - they do indeed compete with some of the best tubes. “A bit more sparkle”, yep… I’ll have to play around with the several pairs I have and update y’all on these later.


*Power Tubes**

 E182CC, 5687, 7119, 7044, 6900 varieties seem to fetch a premium price on eBay for whatever reason. Bargains are rare, and many $4-ish drivers sound awesome. It’s been said that power tubes represent 15-25% of the sound signature equation, drivers 75-85%. So… Why bother? Hmmm..

 The *IBM *and *Arcturus 7044** tubes are identical in construction. In viewing pictures on eBay listings, I have concluded that both are re-badged Sylvania 7044’s - I don’t own the Syl’s, but these two sound the same. These have been my favorite power tubes. They impart well defined bass and warmth compared to the stock 6H6Pi’s and are my default choice in complementing every EF95 tube I’ve tried.

 The *Tung Sol *and *GE 5-Stars 5687* power tubes* are fairly similar. Both feature detail enhancement. The TS - considered the gold standard of 5687’s, are more harmonically rich, and I prefer them to the 5-Stars somewhat drier more detailed flavor. Both work to complement the darker signature of EF92 varieties I’ve tried. These positive qualities with EF92’s are a mixed bag when paired with EF95’s (to my ears). If you really dig detail, your opinion might differ. Keep in mind my phones of choice (K701’s) don’t need a boost in this category. IMO YMMV

 What about the *stock 6H6Pi power tubes*? How do they sound compared to the adaptable options just discussed? Good news! They hang in with the vintage boutique glass very nicely, thank you. Without compromise IMO. Just a wee different. 

 The stock tubes can easily be described as neutral - right down the middle of the playing field. A skosh less warmth and bass strength vs. the 7044’s, a smidgeon less detailed head to head with 5687’s. Keep in mind however, two EF95 varieties compared may offer less differentiation, so the 15-20% rule is a moving target. I‘d widen the range to 15-30% depending. That’s about all that needs to be said. Mix and match is the whole draw to making Bullplugs. Enhance your fun and massage your inner tweak bone, or just leave it to us nut jobs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enter the **EH 6H30Pi gold pin*, the stock power tubes in a LD MK IVse. I’ve had these kicking around for awhile now, but until last week they couldn’t be evaluated in my stock MKIII. If you haven’t followed the story line on these; first they were listed as compatibles in the MK III, then they weren’t, then it was determined you had to Mod the board to use’em. My hope was for some kind of Bullplug2 solution, but that didn’t pan out. I ended up installing a switch using Webghost ‘s approach. Thx WG! And dgb1 2!

 The 6H30 tubes are far more substantial to the eye and hand. They make all 5687/7044 and 6H6 units appear utterly flaccid! Does structural manliness equate to sonic balls?

 Well, much like a sprouting teenage boy, the 6H30Pi’s need some time to figure out what to do with their new found manhood. Early in their burn-in, things wandered around quite a bit. Dynamics had a surging unnaturalness and harmonic structure was pinched. With 80 hours and counting, they’ve lost most of their youthful awkwardness. 

 My Mk III needs a jock strap! There is weight and control that other power tubes do not deliver. Perspective is deeper, notes are sharpened, highs are quick and detailed but not forward, and the frequency balance leans a little to the dark side, much like the above mentioned 7044’s, which I like. These bring out more bass slam than I’ve ever heard through my K701’s. 

 About the only thing they seem to diminish is harmonic richness, making notes disappear more sharply than I’m used to. More hours needed? Perhaps, but I’ve read in comments by Audio Research owners that many miss the harmonic qualities of older 6922 based units. AR has redesigned most of their gear to use 6H30’s.

 On the subject of tube purchasing styles, I’ve gone about it like I’m sitting at a large table in a Chinese restaurant, with a bunch of adventurous eaters. It’s a cheesy joint but the food is good. Sharing is great fun! Find a head-fi buddy or two and trade a few pairs. Everybody learns what to order next time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




**NOTE!*
 The EH 6H30’s require soldered resistor changes in the board, either switched or un-switched, thus voiding your warranty.
 The 7044 and 5687’s require pin reconfiguring adapters, these adapters will also open your power tube choices to include E182CC, 7119, and 6900’s. 

 Hope you enjoyed my shared indulgences,

 E


 How to make Bulldapter bullplugs: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ifiers-301219/

 Big Ass tube review Part I: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/lit...ml#post3921663


----------



## absolutlemur

Woah - after about the 15 hour mark, the Amperex 5654 *really* opened up! Great soundstage, warm mids and awesome subterranean bass.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back on 3/09/08,_

 

Major snip. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Excellent Review part 2 E!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When are you going to plunk down for a set of 6H30PI-DR's??

 I'm doing some listening tests with the DR's in my MKIII. I'll report back once I have the differences ironed out. Initial impressions; Macho Macho MKIII.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *absolutlemur* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Woah - after about the 15 hour mark, the Amperex 5654 *really* opened up! Great soundstage, warm mids and awesome subterranean bass.





_

 

That is so cool! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Having tubes change while listening, is one of my favorite things. It's like the unseen magic force, working away at the inside of the tubes.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Major snip. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Excellent Review part 2 E!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When are you going to plunk down for a set of 6H30PI-DR's??

 I'm doing some listening tests with the DR's in my MKIII. I'll report back once I have the differences ironed out. Initial impressions; Macho Macho MKIII. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

SNIP - Spay and Neuter Immediately Please (?)

 Tubes? Me buy tubes? No, no, no, I'm jumping, leaping, sprinting off the train 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No more tubes for me


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SNIP - Spay and Neuter Immediately Please (?)

 Tubes? Me buy tubes? No, no, no, I'm jumping, leaping, sprinting off the train 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No more tubes for me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think the DR designation is from "Mad Doctor" in Russian. They have the "Mad Doctor" inject the DR's with extra testosterone impregnated plates and steroid based getters, so they have a serious pair (matched of course). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Grunt, grunt, must buy tubes, grunt, grunt, must buy them now, grunt, grunt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A DR for you, a DR for me, what the heck, I'll buy three!


----------



## ethebull

You're welcome to send me a pair


----------



## Henmyr

Are the Sylvania 6AK5WB a warmer tube than stock? I rather have neutral tubes than warm tubes, any tube in particular I should look for? Better than stock but neutral (not warm) is what I want.

 I have four 6ZH1P-EV on the way to see what they are all about.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're welcome to send me a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

But, it's your turn!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are the Sylvania 6AK5WB a warmer tube than stock? I rather have neutral tubes than warm tubes, any tube in particular I should look for? Better than stock but neutral (not warm) is what I want.

 I have four 6ZH1P-EV on the way to see what they are all about._

 

It sounds to me like the 6ZH1P-EV's will be just what you need. The Sylvania's are full frequency, dynamic and neither warm nor cold. They hit a very good sweet spot that is hard to ignore. I haven't removed mine from my MKIII since I got them.


----------



## ethebull

^ x2, I'd also add that I've yet to hear an overly warm EF95. Even the warmer EF92's aren't grossly so. 

 It helps to read tube observations with a point of reference. With two or three in your collection, my veiws and other's here will be easier to understand. Though you may decide we're all full of crap


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ x2, I'd also add that I've yet to hear an overly warm EF95. Even the warmer EF92's aren't grossly so. 

 It helps to read tube observations with a point of reference. With two or three in your collection, my veiws and other's here will be easier to understand. Though you may decide we're all full of crap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I resemble that!


----------



## ethebull

Whether you want to just replace the resistor, or add in a switched resistor, the soldering is the easy part. The difficulty is in the one piece chassis design. The beautifully beefy toroidial transformer has several 20 gauge wires grouped into two sets of twisted pairs. They enter the chassis in two ropes of wire on either side of the transformer location and are spaced narrower than the board. The entry holes are tight and un-grommetted, so if one tries to pull the long snake of wires up to clear access, you risk scraping through the insulation. If you decide to give it a go, you may want to abort if you find removing the board is beyond your comfort level. Why? Because getting it all back in is even harder! So just take this as a stern warning. Don't get in over your head! This from a guy (me) who's been a Mr. fix-it type, with good success, for 3-4 decades.

 It would be so much easier if LD had specified a two piece clam-shell chassis. I don’t know how much that would have added to their production costs, but it might behoove them just in terms of their own long term serviceability costs. Perhaps a non-issue in their judgment. 

 In short, if you want to take it all apart and go for it, you may wish to build a new housing for her, and make life easier in the long term. I can envision a slick hybrid chassis, salvaging the top of the stock unit cut front to back, mounted to an elegant wood bottom with the original face and back screwed to the wood. 

 Maybe in a year or two…


----------



## dgbiker1

I had to take mine apart the other night when I lost a jumper in it. I sat there for about 30 minutes thinking "there is no way we're supposed to just pull everything out of the back!" I was only brave enough to pull the board out about half way. Turns out the %#*&@% jumper had fallen on my bed without me seeing it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I'm definitely considering re-casing it when I eventually get around to doing the resistor mod. My main motivation is getting rid of those silly jumpers and gain switches and using external switches instead, but it will be nice not having to shove everything back into the case
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have you heard of "Front Panel Express"? I'll probably be using them when I make the new case, they have a really cheap and powerful custom faceplate service that I'm using for my Mini^3 (cheaper than ordering the AMB plates).


----------



## Trapper32

E’s Big Ass Tube Review Part II 

 Excellent review E!! Definitely shed some light on choices for the power tubes..Any chance of you going into commercial production of those Bulldapters bullplugs?? Even a limited production run??


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any chance of you going into commercial production of those Bulldapters bullplugs?? Even a limited production run?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My bulldapter elf up and quit on me.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My bulldapter elf up and quit on me._

 






 Did you figure out the cause yet?


----------



## ethebull

He just left and wouldn't tell me why. Guess he was just tired of the slave wages.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_






 Did you figure out the cause yet?_

 

The Spanish translation from the Chinese assembly manual caused all kinds of problems for the affordable (labor) Mexican elf. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ****ducking*****


----------



## dgbiker1

Just picked up a 5-pack of Western Electric 6028s on eBay. Can't wait to try 'em!


----------



## ethebull

I tried to hire the Keebler guy but couldn’t afford him, and Santa’s boys are too frickin’ loyal


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It lists the tweeter as: 1-1/4" Perforated Poly-Dome Top Tweeter with high-low selection switch - tweet plays 1/10th as lound as the main driver - there to give cymbals an edge, and precise imagery

 It lists the bass driver as: Directly Wired 6-3/4" 8-Ohm Wide Band woven Kevlar Strand Main Single Driver(SD)

 Here is the unique part: Cabinet and Drivers are Custom Designed to work together without a crossover board
 No Crossover Design = No phase shift midrange blur

 Here is the site for them: http://www.angelfire.com/biz/bizzyb/TAD805SD.html

 It is fun listening to them as they mature. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's pretty cool Pench. No x-over is the ideal for sure. I have a soft spot for speakers. I have at least 6 pairs sitting around all over the house of various types,configs,sizes. Can't stop tinkering with them either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The ones you bought are candidates for a ribbon tweeter transplant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice cabs on those. Nice find Penchum.........looks at wallet.......finds a rusty penny and a mountain of receipts, no paper worth anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

dgb !!! Those Western Electrics look to be in minty fresh A1 condish.......how much for the sleeve.......and wait for it.......are there any more ?


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dgb !!! Those Western Electrics look to be in minty fresh A1 condish.......how much for the sleeve.......and wait for it.......are there any more ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

$15+shipping for 5. Here's some 408A's from the same seller:
5 NOS NIB WESTERN ELECTRIC 408A PENTODE TUBES - AUDIO - eBay (item 230246632993 end time May-01-08 18:25:10 PDT)
 Or a lot of 14 for $25:
14 WESTERN ELECTRIC 20 VOLT HAM TUBES 408A~6028 407A NR - eBay (item 120254500912 end time May-04-08 21:07:58 PDT)
 These seem a bit risky though, a bit of research revealed 408As (described as an equivalent to the 6028) are 6ak5 with 20V heater voltage, while 403s have a heater voltage of only 6.3V. But you sometimes see 408s listed as equivalents to 403s, so I'm basically trying an equivalent (6028) of an equivalent (408) of a tube that works(403)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'll post here when I get them. If I don't, my MKIII may have exploded


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried to hire the Keebler guy but couldn’t afford him, and Santa’s boys are too frickin’ loyal_

 


 Believe it not......The Keebler guy has a drinkin' problem, sure at first it was just a wee nip of whiskey with the morning tea....but all to soon that wee nip turned into a fifth between breakfast and dinner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not to mention...his diverticulitis made life hard on the helpers...especially on egg salad Fridays !!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Nothin' worse than a drunk elf with assembly instruction issues.....

 Don't even get me started on Santa's posse.....can you say crack addled pimps ? Shhhhhhud up


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$15+shipping for 5. Here's some 408A's from the same seller:
5 NOS NIB WESTERN ELECTRIC 408A PENTODE TUBES - AUDIO - eBay (item 230246632993 end time May-01-08 18:25:10 PDT)
 Or a lot of 14 for $25:
14 WESTERN ELECTRIC 20 VOLT HAM TUBES 408A~6028 407A NR - eBay (item 120254500912 end time May-04-08 21:07:58 PDT)
 These seem a bit risky though, a bit of research revealed 408As (described as an equivalent to the 6028) are 6ak5 with 20V heater voltage, while 403s have a heater voltage of only 6.3V. But you sometimes see 408s listed as equivalents to 403s, so I'm basically trying an equivalent of an equivalent to a tube that works
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'll post here when I get them. If I don't, my MKIII may have exploded
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Doh, maybe I'll see if yours survives before takin' the plunge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 PS Won't this just mean you'll be under volting the plates at 6.3 volts when running them in the mk III ? I don't think it will harm the amp, although I could be wrong (and often am ). Will the WE408's last forever at this plate voltage or will this arrangement simply not work at all ? What's you take E ?


 Thanks for the link (puts seller in Feebay favs) dgb !!


----------



## ethebull

It's a shame, I probably would have gotten along swimingly with the cookie boy. After a fifth and a few burritos.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a shame, I probably would have gotten along swimingly with the cookie boy. After a fifth and a few burritos._

 


 MMMM burritos and egg salad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 E what can you tell about 5U4G rectifiers ? As in what's the best (under 50 bucks) NOS type and brand to look for. I have these in mind so far but can't decide. RCA blk plate, 40's & 50's vintage, Green label Sylvania (40 & 50's vintage),Philco 40's vintage,Westinghouse 30's & 40's vintage,GE 40's vintage,Tung Sol 50's, .......as you can see...I've been looking but am having a hell of time deciding. I did find some Ken Rads but holy hell.....80 bucks a piece.

 Can you help me out E ? I'm thinking RCA blk plate....but....well you know.

 Thanks bro,

 Peete.

 dgbiker1, what are your thoughts on the above ?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

You guys I'm pretty sure the 408A isn't compatible with EF95.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys I'm pretty sure the 408A isn't compatible with EF95._

 

It's not listed on the LD site, but here it's listed as a 6ak5 tube:
https://www.tubeworld.com/400a723a.htm
 I'll try them out just to see, they were pretty cheap so it's no big loss. I don't think these can harm the amp as they're equivalents, so it won't be shorting/opening anything it shouldn't. I think what may happen is that they don't get enough power and saturate, a-la EF91.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

I think the 5687 MkIVse amps run the 408A driver tubes, correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Mike_TNT

Hey guys,
 I know a local seller who has some Amperex Bugle Boy ECC82 and Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 tubes. Are these compatible with the LD?


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_E what can you tell about 5U4G rectifiers ? 
 Can you help me out E ? I'm thinking RCA blk plate....but....well you know.
_

 

The same brands are the players in the 6SN7 arena, but I've never owned gear that uses 5U4G's. I never got deep into vintage glass on my Golden Tube Audio EL34/6SN7 amp. The Svetlana EL34's are great, and I found a Chinese driver that I liked just fine (the Ken Rad is the primo 6SN7 type too). I used to own a pair of VTL 100 watt mono blocks. They came with Telefunken drivers that never let me down. Replaced the EL34's once on them. 

 One of the cool things about the LD has been how little I've had to spend to check out a whole bunch of vintage glass.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the 5687 MkIVse amps run the 408A driver tubes, correct me if I'm wrong._

 

DoA is correct fella's! The early models of MKIVse had 408A + 5687's. The 408A's are NOT compatable with the 403's. Someone tried this a while back and it didn't work, I think.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys,
 I know a local seller who has some Amperex Bugle Boy ECC82 and Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 tubes. Are these compatible with the LD?_

 

Here's a simple tube compatibility checker I use. 

 Go to Vacuum tubes @ thetubestore. New and NOS electron tubes for any amplifier. and enter in the tube type you're curious about in their search for a tube field. Do the resulting tubes listed correlate to a known compatible? If not, the tube you're curious about is likely not compatible. 

 Mike, the short answer is no.


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's a simple tube compatibility checker I use. 

 Go to Vacuum tubes @ thetubestore. New and NOS electron tubes for any amplifier. and enter in the tube type you're curious about in their search for a tube field. Do the resulting tubes listed correlate to a known compatible? If not, the tube you're curious about is likely not compatible. 

 Mike, the short answer is no._

 

Thanks for the tip E. This tube hunting, it's better than Pokemons.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the tip E. This tube hunting, it's better than Pokemons._

 

If you buy the Amperex Bugle Boy ECC82's and send'em to me, I'll send you a pair of Sylvania 6AK5WB's. $ wise, a better deal for me though


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The same brands are the players in the 6SN7 arena, but I've never owned gear that uses 5U4G's. I never got deep into vintage glass on my Golden Tube Audio EL34/6SN7 amp. The Svetlana EL34's are great, and I found a Chinese driver that I liked just fine (the Ken Rad is the primo 6SN7 type too). I used to own a pair of VTL 100 watt mono blocks. They came with Telefunken drivers that never let me down. Replaced the EL34's once on them. 

 One of the cool things about the LD has been how little I've had to spend to check out a whole bunch of vintage glass._

 

Thanks E, I suppose the same rules apply with rectifiers, reg, than JAN, than extra rugged being top o the heap. 
 Are Telefunken diamond plate (bottom) 6AK5's worth the coin ? (evil grin..)

 Looks like I'll get me an RCA blk plate then a sylvania. I found some Svetlana NOS 5U4G's from 1960 and bought the lot of 4 for 45 bucks including shipping....man I love collecting all these damn tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's a disease I think.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I should be set for rectifiers for the next 10 years or more now..

 E I agree completely, what's more, that is what makes LD's tube choice all the more in-genius. I'm sure they had afford-ability in mind when they originally drew up the plans for their head amps. Smart !

 How's the 6H30PI's treating you ? Any impressions yet of note ?

 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Bah.....I just jumped on those 6AK5 Telefunkens 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope they are worth it !


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Who makes Silverstone ? It's another 5U4G tube. Never heard of that one before.

 Peete


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bah.....I just jumped on those 6AK5 Telefunkens 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope they are worth it ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

$87/4 jobbies out of Taiwan? Hope they are all they should be, but I'd be more comfortable getting them from a German seller meself.

 Not familiar with Silverstone tubes, but it's a race car circuit and town in England.

 Did you catch my Big Ass Tube Review a few pages back? I report on the EH Golds.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you buy the Amperex Bugle Boy ECC82's and send'em to me, I'll send you a pair of Sylvania 6AK5WB's. $ wise, a better deal for me though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have some Amperex white label 7308's (250 hrs on them) that I don't use anymore and some Phillips Jan 6922's with 10 hrs on them. I'll trade ya for a pair of those syl's and one pair of the Raytheons ( I think you said Raytheons...I'm not sure) you just scored. I'll throw in, as a bonus, a brand new set of NOS Voshod rocket label 6922's that I got from Upscale Audio (the 7308's from Upscale also). What do you say E ?

 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have some Amperex white label 7308's (250 hrs on them) that I don't use anymore and some Phillips Jan 6922's with 10 hrs on them. I'll trade ya for a pair of those syl's and one pair of the Raytheons ( I think you said Raytheons...I'm not sure) you just scored. I'll throw in, as a bonus, a brand new set of NOS Voshod rocket label 6922's that I got from Upscale Audio (the 7308's from Upscale also). What do you say E ?

 Regards,

 Peete._

 


 Aww man. I hope e has more than one pair of those Syl's because I'm getting destroyed here.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$87/4 jobbies out of Taiwan? Hope they are all they should be, but I'd be more comfortable getting them from a German seller meself.

 Not familiar with Silverstone tubes, but it's a race car circuit and town in England.

 Did you catch my Big Ass Tube Review a few pages back? I report on the EH Golds._

 

Granted I was skeptical myself at first. I asked for a pic of all four tubes...er bottoms....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That lovely little diamond is there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I understand things correctly that little diamond is pretty darn near impossible to fake. I could be wrong though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 D'oh I go back a few pages and read her now !!! Thanks E for pointing that out to me.

 Peete.

 PS Silverstone, yep race track, tube ? Meh.....it's bundled with a Raytheon and a Philco 5U4G. Look to all be late 40's early 50's vintage. 35 bucks for all three in supposedly NOS condition and tested. Dunno. RCA and Sylvania never let me down before why change now ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aww man. I hope e has more than one pair of those Syl's because I'm getting destroyed here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sorry Mike, did you have dibs on the Syl's ? If so then I apologize to you and E for my feverish tube hoarding practices, sometimes I forget to ask before blundering ahead. 

 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry Mike, did you have dibs on the Syl's ? If so then I apologize to you and E for my feverish tube hoarding practices, sometimes I forget to ask before blundering ahead. 

 Regards,

 Peete._

 

Nah it's all good now. You have green light.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hmmm E's pondering the deal....maybe if I throw in a hooker, a case of scotch and the keebler elf (I'll have to hide the booze from the elf,obviously) he'll go for it


----------



## Mike_TNT

I'll take the hooker if she's NOS. That's one piece of gear I don't mind "breaking in" for 8 hours straight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 50$ shipped.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll take the hooker if she's NOS. That's one piece of gear I don't mind "breaking in" for 8 hours straight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 50$ shipped._

 

ROFLMAO.

 For 50 bucks...she ain't gonna be a looker (of a hooker) and you'll have to supply the crack


----------



## Pricklely Peete

E...just got through reading your BATR II (BigAssTubeReview II). Am I the freakin' king of the acronym or what ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 First off I like your writing style. Great job !!!! You and Pench get A+'s across the board for your reviews. It's great to have members such as these on this board. I've learned more here in 2 months ... you get the picture...

 Very interesting observations with regards to harmonic structure and how the 6H30PI treats those structures. I have a feeling that since the 6H30 is so heavily built the usual 100 hrs burn in for these isn't realistic. I may be wrong.....

 On another note....

 I wonder what a set of cryo treated 6H30's would sound like.......maybe we could get some members together to send in a sizable batch (6H30's and EF95's) for cryo treatment ? I'd be willing to throw my hat into that venture. 

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_E...just got through reading your BATR II (BigAssTubeReview II). Am I the freakin' king of the acronym or what ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 First off I like your writing style. Great job !!!! You and Pench get A+'s across the board for your reviews. It's great to have members such as these on this board. I've learned more here in 2 months ... you get the picture...

 Very interesting observations with regards to harmonic structure and how the 6H30PI treats those structures. I have a feeling that since the 6H30 is so heavily built the usual 100 hrs burn in for these isn't realistic. I may be wrong.....

 On another note....

 I wonder what a set of cryo treated 6H30's would sound like.......maybe we could get some members together to send in a sizable batch (6H30's and EF95's) for cryo treatment ? I'd be willing to throw my hat into that venture. 

 Peete._

 

Break! Hehehe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The only problem I see with Cryo, is that it is terminal. Once done, that's it! No going back. The 6H30's are so refined and expensive enough, that I would have trouble giving up a pair for experimentation. I think most of us would feel the same way?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Break! Hehehe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The only problem I see with Cryo, is that it is terminal. Once done, that's it! No going back. The 6H30's are so refined and expensive enough, that I would have trouble giving up a pair for experimentation. I think most of us would feel the same way?_

 

I see your point Pench. Curiosity is killing this cat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to do some poking around and see what's what with the cryo process. For all I know it's ridiculously expensive and renders the idea impotent from the get go.

 Peete.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Why not just buy a pair of DR 6H30Pi rather than cryo-ing the EH if that's what we're talking about.

 How much is the cryo process going to cost anyway? I've heard that there's a company in Arizona that does this, do you know anything about that Penchum?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why not just buy a pair of DR 6H30Pi rather than cryo-ing the EH if that's what we're talking about.

 How much is the cryo process going to cost anyway? I've heard that there's a company in Arizona that does this, do you know anything about that Penchum?_

 

One of the guys (from Phoenix) in a Yahoo group I belong too, has used them before for tubes. He said it is only cheap if you have a quantity to be done. He also stated that he believed the process tightens up the tolerances, which makes for the sound changes. That's about all I know.

 Looking at the DR's under a magnifier, they are very well built, and you can see the distances between parts of the elements and the entire cage, are very exact and do not vary from one end to the other. Looking at the EH's, you can see gaps and changes from top to bottom.

 The NOS's appear to have less (gap size) changes than the EH's. I have no idea why, but I would guess that the quality control from the 70's in Russia was better than the new productions of EH's. I still think the EH's (matched) sound better than the NOS's (matched), but I need to spend more time with them in order to say that with a high degree of certainty. The NOS's appear to need a longer burn-in than the EH's, so this may account for misunderstandings early on. Soon, I'm going to put the NOS's in my MKIVse and run the heck out of them, to see if they mature any further. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Right now, I'm running NOS's in my modded MKII, EH's in my modded MKIII and DR's in my MKIVse. I'm very happy with the results so far. I should qualify that by saying, "this isn't a path for everyone". I would not want to see everyone running around modding their MKIII's and buying 6H30's because I said so. I would be glad to PM anyone who is interested in my findings so far. I have held off posting my findings because I'm really not done yet, and I need to have this topic completely ironed out first.


----------



## JimSmiley

I'd like to give a shout out to RogerB who sent me a pair of Russian 6ZHIP-EV driver tubes absolutely free of charge. He even went so far as to send them priority shipping, so I could have them last weekend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been listening to them all this week, (around 30 hours thus far) and I think they are wonderful. To my ears, they have a much wider soundstage than the stock drivers. It seems the Russians get along much better with each other. These have the groove in them and they are mucho groovy!!! I've been listening to all kinds of music..rock, jazz, bluegrass, and they seem to easily handle each genre well. My stock tubes were great for rock and bluegrass, but I think the 6ZHIP-EV really shines with small combo jazz. 

 I've been very pleased with the my stock drivers, but these new tubes really take it to another level.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to give a shout out to RogerB who sent me a pair of Russian 6ZHIP-EV driver tubes absolutely free of charge. He even went so far as to send them priority shipping, so I could have them last weekend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been listening to them all this week, (around 30 hours thus far) and I think they are wonderful. To my ears, they have a much wider soundstage than the stock drivers. It seems the Russians get along much better with each other. These have the groove in them and they are mucho groovy!!! I've been listening to all kinds of music..rock, jazz, bluegrass, and they seem to easily handle each genre well. My stock tubes were great for rock and bluegrass, but I think the 6ZHIP-EV really shines with small combo jazz. 

 I've been very pleased with the my stock drivers, but these new tubes really take it to another level._

 

JS, I agree 100%. Those little 6Z's are the biggest bang for the buck I have found so far. They really excel with multiple types of rock, and I found them to work well with all other types of music too. RogerB is a very nice person, with a good ear for tubes!! Hat's off to RogerB!!


----------



## ethebull

Hey -

 RogerB started this thread, as well as the “joining the Little Dot Family” thread.

 Thanks RogerB!!! We all owe’ ya


----------



## oatmeal769

Lookie here what I got!

PAIR MULLARD CV4015 EF92 6CQ6 UNUSED BOXED - eBay (item 120252567708 end time May-01-08 10:13:55 PDT)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lookie here what I got!

PAIR MULLARD CV4015 EF92 6CQ6 UNUSED BOXED - eBay (item 120252567708 end time May-01-08 10:13:55 PDT)_

 


 Gimme Gimme 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice score Oatmeal........

 Peete.


----------



## ethebull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gimme Gimme 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice score Oatmeal........

 Peete._

 

You'll have some soon enough.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You'll have some soon enough. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Oh yeah, cripes it's like X-Mas year round in here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Head Fi and it's member Rule !!! (mostly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) !!!


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Oatmeal

 I dig your Kung Fu caffiene capsule avatar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You'll be banging your head like my avatar when you put the heat to those Mullards


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oatmeal

 I dig your Kung Fu caffiene capsule avatar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You'll be banging your head like my avatar when you put the heat to those Mullards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL, I almost forgot I had it... Is that Garfield??

 I'm guessing the Mullards will be a little stronger in the lows, and a little darker than the EF95's... In other words, ROCKERS! does this sound about right?

 I will bang the head that doesn't bang!

 P.S., I can't wait to get the tubes you sent - ought to go well with these...


----------



## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to give a shout out to RogerB who sent me a pair of Russian 6ZHIP-EV driver tubes absolutely free of charge. He even went so far as to send them priority shipping, so I could have them last weekend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've been listening to them all this week, (around 30 hours thus far) and I think they are wonderful. To my ears, they have a much wider soundstage than the stock drivers. It seems the Russians get along much better with each other. These have the groove in them and they are mucho groovy!!! I've been listening to all kinds of music..rock, jazz, bluegrass, and they seem to easily handle each genre well. My stock tubes were great for rock and bluegrass, but I think the 6ZHIP-EV really shines with small combo jazz. 

 I've been very pleased with the my stock drivers, but these new tubes really take it to another level._

 

Thank you JS for the kind words! I'm thrilled that you like the tubes! I know what you mean by they shine with small combo jazz. I absolutely love those tubes with Dave Brubecks' "Time Out" and Norah Jones "Come Away With Me".


 They just get better with more "burn In". Enjoy!!

 Roger


----------



## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_JS, I agree 100%. Those little 6Z's are the biggest bang for the buck I have found so far. They really excel with multiple types of rock, and I found them to work well with all other types of music too. RogerB is a very nice person, with a good ear for tubes!! Hat's off to RogerB!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thank you Pench for the sentiments! Actually, it was you who discovered these excellent Russian tubes and reported back to the group earlier in this thread. I just followed your lead.

 It was also you who suggested that since these tubes were purchased in a group of eight that maybe we could "share" with other Little Dot Tube Owners. I thought that was an excellent idea and just wanted to help a Little Dot Tube Rolling newbie out! JS is a heck of a nice guy and I was glad to help.

 Again, thanks for the kind words.

 Roger


----------



## RogerB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey -

 RogerB started this thread, as well as the “joining the Little Dot Family” thread.

 Thanks RogerB!!! We all owe’ ya_

 

Aw thanks E !!! I've probably learned more from this thread than anybody else thanks to you and several others! I know how confusing this "tube rolling" can be right after you receive your Little Dot Tube Amp and I was glad to help a member of the "family" out .

 Thanks again E!

 Roger


----------



## eightbitpotion

So I got my Mullard ef92s on today. The soundstage is splendid....10folds better. However I have a dumb question (two really). For starters, how long does it really take for tubes to burn-in? I am finding people that say 10 hours, and some that say 100 hours. There isn't as much bass as the stock 5654s, is that just something that goes along with the 92s generally? They weren't NOS, but rather from military equipment. I'm thinking they just might not be burned in yet.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eightbitpotion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I got my Mullard ef92s on today. The soundstage is splendid....10folds better._

 

Ooooweeee! I can't wait to get mine! I just bought these:
PAIR MULLARD CV4015 EF92 6CQ6 UNUSED BOXED
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eightbitpotion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There isn't as much bass as the stock 5654s, is that just something that goes along with the 92s generally? They weren't NOS, but rather from military equipment. I'm thinking they just might not be burned in yet._

 

I thought I'd read that they have a bit more bass and lows extension - so maybe yours aren't yet burned in? Let us know for sure, I won't get mine for about 10 days yet...


----------



## ciphercomplete

I have to lower the gain on my MKII when I use EF92 or EF91 tubes. Has anyone else experienced this. In EF92 mode on 10+ gain I can't turn the volume up past 35 and thats with my hard to drive 501s. In EF95 mode I usually listen at 50 but can bear 60-70 at short intervals all of course depending on the inherent volume of the recording.

 Does the EF92 mode have more output power or something?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eightbitpotion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I got my Mullard ef92s on today. The soundstage is splendid....10folds better. However I have a dumb question (two really). For starters, how long does it really take for tubes to burn-in? I am finding people that say 10 hours, and some that say 100 hours. There isn't as much bass as the stock 5654s, is that just something that goes along with the 92s generally? They weren't NOS, but rather from military equipment. I'm thinking they just might not be burned in yet._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ooooweeee! I can't wait to get mine! I just bought these:
PAIR MULLARD CV4015 EF92 6CQ6 UNUSED BOXED
 I thought I'd read that they have a bit more bass and lows extension - so maybe yours aren't yet burned in? Let us know for sure, I won't get mine for about 10 days yet..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to lower the gain on my MKII when I use EF92 or EF91 tubes. Has anyone else experienced this. In EF92 mode on 10+ gain I can't turn the volume up past 35 and thats with my hard to drive 501s. In EF95 mode I usually listen at 50 but can bear 60-70 at short intervals all of course depending on the inherent volume of the recording.

 Does the EF92 mode have more output power or something?_

 

Ok, here is what I know. EF92's, like the 6CQ6's, usually take 40-50 hours to mature. Many things will change for the better, as the maturing is happening. You usually end up with a lower bass extension, those nice mids, and plenty of high end detail, all wrapped up in an excellent sound stage. The "Mullard" flavor is a favorite with many tube freaks. I have also experienced the need for less gain on the MKII with them, and I'm using the HD-650s. I would recommend setting the gain to 5 (for the MKII) for both EF92 and EF95 families (if you are still tube rolling) to keep things easy.

 My introduction to tube headphone amps, years ago, was with EF92 driver tubes and I learned that they grow on you. If at first, they seem too odd, give them some time. Try all kinds of music in your collection. Some, will really blow you away! Others, you may prefer to drive with the EF95 family and that is OK too.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Thanks Penchum.

 Another quick question if you don't mind. 

 Can I use the Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold or the Sovtek 6H30PI in my MKII? I read somewhere that you "should" be able you use them but I haven't seen any verification.

 If I can use them are there any issues to look out for most notably heat?


----------



## ciphercomplete

Nevermind I just read here on the Little Tube website that the 6h30 tubes are compatible but they will evidently run too hot.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nevermind I just read here on the Little Tube website that the 6h30 tubes are compatible but they will evidently run too hot._

 

It's true. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You can do a resistor mod, so you can use the 6H30PI's, but it is a one way street. Do the mod, never go back to 6H6NPI's again. It also kills your warranty, so it might be something to try later on.


----------



## ricco87

First post in the thread I think, came to say how amazed I was earlier.

 Received my LD about a week ago and have been listening to the stock tubes. I also bought some D880's to go with it and was very happy with the sound when I got it and pretty impressed.

 However if I had to pick fault the bass was overpowering and bloated, not tight at all. Never really improved much as the phones or amp got a lot of hours through them. To get a balanced sound I had to set the eq like this:






 The vocals were also very recessed and again not particularly clear.

 I received some Mullard M8161 EF92’s in the post today and didn’t expect too much at all, especially as they were not burnt in and were inexpensive. I couldn’t be more wrong. After turning it on I was amazed at the clarity added across all the frequencies. Tight accurate bass but not overpowering (I now have a flat eq) and the vocals were spot on, not overwhelmed at all. 

 Its impossible to put into numbers but if I had to I would say the base had improved about 7 or 8 times it was that impressive, I was amazed. Vocals were 2 or 3 times as good as were the low mids. The highs had more extension and a slight touch more clarity but not day and night like the rest of the spectrum. This has helped the stage no end and I think I will struggle to find a much better tube than these.

 I also got some cheap Z77/EF91 sent through and these are also great little tubes. Immediately it was obvious they were not nearly as clear as the Mullards but what they lost in that they made up in body and character, a really, really good tube for jazz.

 Obviously this semi review has no real relevance as not all the tubes are fully burnt in and neither are the phones to be honest, but its more to say how surprised I was and that everyone must try new tubes if they haven’t already.

 I’m sorry to say to the failed bidders but I won ethebull’s auction and looking forward to receiving the tubes and trying some other EF95’s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was hoping I would like one or two sets and sell the rest on again. But having listened to a couple of pairs it seems I might just find different qualities in each tube rather than ones I like and dislike L either way I’m sure there will be some tubes up for sale from me soon.


----------



## ricco87

accidental post


----------



## batmanwcm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ricco87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received some Mullard M8161 EF92’s in the post today and didn’t expect too much at all, especially as they were not burnt in and were inexpensive. I couldn’t be more wrong. After turning it on I was amazed at the clarity added across all the frequencies. Tight accurate bass but not overpowering (I now have a flat eq) and the vocals were spot on, not overwhelmed at all. 

 Its impossible to put into numbers but if I had to I would say the base had improved about 7 or 8 times it was that impressive, I was amazed. Vocals were 2 or 3 times as good as were the low mids. The highs had more extension and a slight touch more clarity but not day and night like the rest of the spectrum. This has helped the stage no end and I think I will struggle to find a much better tube than these._

 

Nice, I have the Mullard M8161's sitting in my closet as I'm waiting for my stock tubes to burn in. I have high expectations for the 8161's now.


----------



## dgbiker1

ricco: What kind of headphones are you using? We've had mixed results with the EF91s not working in some cases.


----------



## dgbiker1

I got my 6028/408As today and I can confirm they don't work. Anyone with a MKIV want some 6028s?


----------



## crewpsu

Hello everyone,
 Recently just bought a mkIII off of the forsale section here. Before I start getting into tube rolling with this amp I have a question. How important is it to buy tubes that are "matched" for this amp? I see several auctions on ebay for tubes that seem to be recommended in this thread and wanted to know if I should pass and wait for a "matched" pair to come along or if buying two tubes (as long as they are the same brand/model) would be ok. Thank you for your time,
 Crew


----------



## ricco87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ricco: What kind of headphones are you using? We've had mixed results with the EF91s not working in some cases._

 

Beyer dt880 pro's

 Not even a hint of problem with the 91's. I hear some have been reporting distortion?


----------



## Trapper32

Recently had the opportunity to pick up some Mullard 8083/ef91 for a few bucks so I thought I'd give them a go....tried them with my Senns 580's and no distortion....but with my Grados 225's there is considerable distortion ... The use of different cans probably accounts for the conflicting reports of whether the ef91's work in the MKIII or not.. Something that P hinted at a while ago and maybe why Little Dot couldn't reproduce the distortion problem..(don't they use Sennheisers to test/develop the amps?)


----------



## dgbiker1

So the trend seems to be that you need high-z headphones to make the EF-91s work...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, I almost forgot I had it... Is that Garfield??

 I'm guessing the Mullards will be a little stronger in the lows, and a little darker than the EF95's... In other words, ROCKERS! does this sound about right?

 I will bang the head that doesn't bang!

 P.S., I can't wait to get the tubes you sent - ought to go well with these..._

 

Hi Oatmeal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think it's a yellow gumby .....don't know why it's yellow...crazy kids these days
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not familiar with Mullards in this context. My familiarity with any NOS tubes is with 12AU7,12AX7, and 6922,7308. Mostly guitar amp and pre amp tube types. Although Mullards are highly prized no matter what the type, be it driver or power tube. E is sending me a set of Mullard EF92's in a trade, so that'll be my first taste with the MK III. I vaguely remember an old Marshall 2203 from years back with all ( 3 12AX7's, 4 EL34's) Mullard tubes. It sounded amazing IIRC.

 Your tubes should arrive this week some time (if the post office can be trusted).

 Enjoy !!!

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crewpsu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello everyone,
 Recently just bought a mkIII off of the forsale section here. Before I start getting into tube rolling with this amp I have a question. How important is it to buy tubes that are "matched" for this amp? I see several auctions on ebay for tubes that seem to be recommended in this thread and wanted to know if I should pass and wait for a "matched" pair to come along or if buying two tubes (as long as they are the same brand/model) would be ok. Thank you for your time,
 Crew_

 

There hasn't been much debate on the matched vs unmatched in this thread and in a way, I'm kinda glad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think most folks will buy a matched set if the price is right, and if the price is too much, they'll buy unmatched pairs in a heart beat.

 I've had very good luck both ways, so I follow a simple rule. If I can get the tubes for at or under $8 a tube, I'll buy unmatched. If I know the tube is a serious performer and the price is worth that performance, I'll buy the matched set for total accuracy. That's about it. Nothing too special.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Recently had the opportunity to pick up some Mullard 8083/ef91 for a few bucks so I thought I'd give them a go....tried them with my Senns 580's and no distortion....but with my Grados 225's there is considerable distortion ... The use of different cans probably accounts for the conflicting reports of whether the ef91's work in the MKIII or not.. Something that P hinted at a while ago and maybe why Little Dot couldn't reproduce the distortion problem..(don't they use Sennheisers to test/develop the amps?)_

 

The last time I talked with DavidZ on this, they were still voicing their amps to Senns, but they were also evaluating them with K701s and one other brand (don't remember which one though). The intent was to understand how their amps sound with different headphones, so they could answer questions that might be more specific.

 The EF91 is a real "oddball" situation. Even though they sound pretty good, they are not "show stoppers" by any means, so I agree with their standing on not recommending them. There is just too many variables. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I use mine from time to time, but not for very long. Those Sylvania 5654's have me hooked big time.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Pench does the RCA 6AK5 have a command variant ?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pench does the RCA 6AK5 have a command variant ?_

 

Honestly, I'm not sure. I saw a matched pair for sale once on eBay, but I haven't seen any since then. I'd sure like to try a set, if they exist!


----------



## ethebull

Matched vs. not matched…

 I’ve bought or traded for more than my fair share of tubes, mostly out of curiosity. What do they sound like? Are these the hidden gem I’ve been seeking?… So I’ve collected about 12 or so varieties of driver tubes.

 As Penchum says, it all depends on the price and the tube. If you are buying a tube just to check it out, with no particular confidence that this is the premium tube you plan to stick with for a majority of your listening, buying tested, NOS, un-matched has served me very well. Nearly all of the tubes I’ve bought this way have cost $2-6 each, including shipping, buying in a quantity of 4-10. If you really dig them you’ve got spares, and/or you’ve got a few to trade.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pench does the RCA 6AK5 have a command variant ?_

 

They do, I have a pair.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They do, I have a pair. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What do you think of them?


----------



## JimSmiley

Is there any sonic difference between the Mullard 8100 (EF95) and the Mullard 8161 (EF92). Has anyone compared these? I see some praise for the 8161, but I'd rather not use that tiny jumper with my sausage link fingers.


----------



## ricco87

I know it has been asked before but is there any chance of damaging the amp if you run two different driver tubes?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

double post.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any sonic difference between the Mullard 8100 (EF95) and the Mullard 8161 (EF92). Has anyone compared these? I see some praise for the 8161, but I'd rather not use that tiny jumper with my sausage link fingers._

 

The M8161 sounds very different than the M8100. The M8161 is closer to warm-neutral while the M8100 has a very nice albeit slightly heavy-handed emphasis on bass frequencies. Might want to make sure to get the tubes with the Mullard shields printed on them, branded Mullards are generally better sounding for whatever reason.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you think of them? [RCA Commands] 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I loved the RCA 6AK5 for jazz and classical music although I can hardly hear a difference with the Command version. Whereas the different versions of GE tubes like 5 Star and Mobile Audio all have distinctive sonic characteristics, which is kind of weird but fun to experience.


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *batmanwcm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice, I have the Mullard M8161's sitting in my closet as I'm waiting for my stock tubes to burn in. I have high expectations for the 8161's now._

 

I just received my pair of 8161's today and they're just like ricco said even without much burn in. Another strong point they have is that they mesh with my Grados so much better than the stock tubes. The only problem was trying to fish out some loose jumpers from the LD before I got them right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Holy smokes. Penchum was right. These are getting better by the hour.


----------



## Tech2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crewpsu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello everyone,
 Recently just bought a mkIII off of the forsale section here. Before I start getting into tube rolling with this amp I have a question. How important is it to buy tubes that are "matched" for this amp? I see several auctions on ebay for tubes that seem to be recommended in this thread and wanted to know if I should pass and wait for a "matched" pair to come along or if buying two tubes (as long as they are the same brand/model) would be ok. Thank you for your time,
 Crew_

 

I'll add my two cents:

 There is no way, none, that I would spend $40 + shipping for a 'matched' pair of driver tubes on ebay. I think that one ebay seller in particular is trying to take full advantage of the new wave of LD amp users by charging what I consider to be ridiculous prices for pairs.

 I have only used unmatched NOS pairs and they have performed flawlessly for me. Of course, the value is in the ear of the beholder and therefore YMMV.


----------



## JimSmiley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The M8161 sounds very different than the M8100. The M8161 is closer to warm-neutral while the M8100 has a very nice albeit slightly heavy-handed emphasis on bass frequencies. Might want to make sure to get the tubes with the Mullard shields printed on them, branded Mullards are generally better sounding for whatever reason._

 

Thanks Dept of Alchemy. That's what I needed to know.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tech2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll add my two cents:

 There is no way, none, that I would spend $40 + shipping for a 'matched' pair of driver tubes on ebay. I think that one ebay seller in particular is trying to take full advantage of the new wave of LD amp users by charging what I consider to be ridiculous prices for pairs._

 

At least for the M8161, tubedepot.com is selling theirs at $29.95 PER TUBE (M8161 / 6065), so the ebay prices for a matched pair at 50% discount seems reasonable IMO. For the performance gain I'd spend the money on tubes than interconnects anyday, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly, I'm not sure. I saw a matched pair for sale once on eBay, but I haven't seen any since then. I'd sure like to try a set, if they exist! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Me too bro........I'm looking around for a set as we speak. Those funky Russian NOS rectifiers came today (4 x 5U4G made in Nov 1960 for 7 bucks ea.). They are a marked improvement in dynamics in terms of leading edge transient speed (over the stock Shugang 274B) with even fuller bass.....my god it's an embarrassment of riches, so to speak, around here these days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Major smilies....

 E, I scored a Jan-VT244 Ken Rad 5U4G for 75 bucks (ouch), I just can't help myself........VISA needs to take my card away 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sheesh I could have bought the Zero by now......

 Peete.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... I'd spend the money on tubes than interconnects anyday...:_

 

Yeah, I'd agree that bang for buck is better spent on tubes. <TANGENT>Funny though, I just upgraded my interconnects to a set of Zu's, and the difference is noticeable. It certainly isn't 'night and day' or even large, but there is definitely some more clarity. 

 I also think this could have to do with the fact that the Zu's are about 12 inches long, and the cheapie no name I was using was about 5 feet. I don't buy into cables making huge differences, but - especially at line signal levels - good and short connections do make a difference.</TANGENT>


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Matched vs. not matched…

 I’ve bought or traded for more than my fair share of tubes, mostly out of curiosity. What do they sound like? Are these the hidden gem I’ve been seeking?… So I’ve collected about 12 or so varieties of driver tubes.

 As Penchum says, it all depends on the price and the tube. If you are buying a tube just to check it out, with no particular confidence that this is the premium tube you plan to stick with for a majority of your listening, buying tested, NOS, un-matched has served me very well. Nearly all of the tubes I’ve bought this way have cost $2-6 each, including shipping, buying in a quantity of 4-10. If you really dig them you’ve got spares, and/or you’ve got a few to trade._

 


 You have a talent for sniffing out bargoons E !!! 

 Peete


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I'd agree that bang for buck is better spent on tubes. <TANGENT>Funny though, I just upgraded my interconnects to a set of Zu's, and the difference is noticeable. It certainly isn't 'night and day' or even large, but there is definitely some more clarity. 

 I also think this could have to do with the fact that the Zu's are about 12 inches long, and the cheapie no name I was using was about 5 feet. I don't buy into cables making huge differences, but - especially at line signal levels - good and short connections do make a difference.</TANGENT>_

 

Good quality cable, well shielded always helps. Length doesn't matter all that much unless the cables are crap...then it doesn't matter anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You get anything in the mail yet Oatmeal ?

 Peete.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You get anything in the mail yet Oatmeal ? Peete._

 

Went looking for presents today but no dice, LOL Tomorrow though...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Went looking for presents today but no dice, LOL Tomorrow though..._

 


 Bummer, hopefully Thursday at the latest. 

 Crankin' some MUSE-Absolution at the moment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (doing the yellow gumby nod).

 Peete.


----------



## dr dougie

I finally tried replacing the 6n6p power tubes with some 6cg7 tubes - which have the same pin layout and are supposed to be the closest Western equivalent. They were unexciting GE Jan brand with no shield plates.

 First off. They work! And they sounded ok for the brief time I listened with them, not quite as good as the stock ones. They are new however and certainly not going to be the best of that tube type.

 The bad news is the filaments were glowing a little too bright and they obviously run hotter than the 6n6p. I didn't have a problem for the 10 minutes they were in but don't recommend trying it with the stock LD III. It seems a resistor change as per the 6h30 might be in order.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr dougie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally tried replacing the 6n6p power tubes with some 6cg7 tubes - which have the same pin layout and are supposed to be the closest Western equivalent. They were unexciting GE Jan brand with no shield plates.

 First off. They work! And they sounded ok for the brief time I listened with them, not quite as good as the stock ones. They are new however and certainly not going to be the best of that tube type.

 The bad news is the filaments were glowing a little too bright and they obviously run hotter than the 6n6p. I didn't have a problem for the 10 minutes they were in but don't recommend trying it with the stock LD III. It seems a resistor change as per the 6h30 might be in order._

 

dr dougie - 
 AWESOME! thanks for keeping us posted, I figured it was worth a shot! So now what do we do, figure out resistance or something?? Thanks for trying this. 
 For those interested, this idea started back on about page 58 - 60...


----------



## ethebull

If you want to explore different highly regarded power tubes, the electrical equivalent’s are the E182CC, 5687, 7119, 7044, 6900 tube varieties. They are plentiful. See :

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ifiers-301219/


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want to explore different highly regarded power tubes, the electrical equivalent’s are the E182CC, 5687, 7119, 7044, 6900 tube varieties. They are plentiful. See :

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ifiers-301219/_

 

Boy, ain't that the truth! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I should update that review to include the latest model of the MKIVse.


----------



## Henmyr

The 6ZHIP-EV sound very good with my AD2000
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have about 17hours on them, but I'm not even sure if they were NOS or not, so I'm still waiting to see if any major changes will happen.

 The biggest improvement from the stock tubes is the bass. They are better both in quantity and attack, both very welcome changes.

 The added bass worked very well for the DT880 also. They are almost bass heavy now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: The midrange is neutral and nothing special. They didn't help the midrange of DT880 very much, but I still like it very much.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want to explore different highly regarded power tubes, the electrical equivalent’s are the E182CC, 5687, 7119, 7044, 6900 tube varieties. They are plentiful. See :

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ifiers-301219/_

 

I think part of the idea with trying the 6cg7 was to see if it might work without an adaptor.


----------



## dr dougie

Yeah I wouldn't get real excited about the 6cg7 yet. They are good tubes obviously with Mcintosh and Marantz amps using them for many years but they are not drop in replacements for 6n6p, just close enough to almost work.

 It would be nice to get a review from people with the adapters using the 5687 and equivalents!


----------



## ciphercomplete

nm


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 6ZHIP-EV sound very good with my AD2000
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have about 17hours on them, but I'm not even sure if they were NOS or not, so I'm still waiting to see if any major changes will happen.

 The biggest improvement from the stock tubes is the bass. They are better both in quantity and attack, both very welcome changes.

 The added bass worked very well for the DT880 also. They are almost bass heavy now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: The midrange is neutral and nothing special. They didn't help the midrange of DT880 very much, but I still like it very much._

 

That's great! You may find the 6Z's refining some more and the mids being a little better, after the first 45 or so hours.


----------



## crewpsu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the statute of limitations on parking tickets ? I have about 30 unpaid tickets in Boston Mass from the mid 80's. I'd just rip em up (every time I'd get one) and head home (Lived in NH at the time). There is no where to park in Boston. Just friggin' awful trying to find any spot that didn't have 6 different rules ,time zones, holiday rules......sheesh, worse than Toronto and that's bad.

 I'll bet the final tally of combined fines was a few grand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Young and dumb at the time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Funny I haven't had a single parking ticket since then . Go figure._

 

Hey Peete,
 You might want to watch out. Not sure what Boston does, or may do, but i got a parking ticket once when I was in Washington D.C. Did the same thing you did and forgot about it, till about a 2 years later when the good ole city of D.C. decided to give it to a collections agency. My credit report ended up getting dinged until I cleared the whole mess up.

 My Little Dot MKIII should arrive today, I keep checking to see if there is a box on my door step every few mins, can't wait.


----------



## crewpsu

Hello everyone,
 I have a bit of an odd request. I just got my little dot mkIII in the mail a few mins ago. Unfortunately one of the driver tubes was cracked in shipping. I purchased this amp from a fellow member here so I don't think contacting little dot would be of any use but I could be wrong. Is there anyone here that would be willing to sell me there stock driver tubes? Thanks everyone,

 I had wanted to hear what the stock tubes could do before getting into tube rolling.

 Crew


----------



## dan_can

I'm done with little-dot. I'm selling all the tubes I bought for MK IV SE. I think there are five Sylvania 6AK5WB, two matched WE 403B, one pair of Sylvania Gold Brand Sylvania 5654, one pair of Amperex 5654, one pair of GE 5 star, one pair of TungSol 6ak5 (lettering gone), one pair of Sylvania black plate 6AK5, one pair of Mullard M8100 (no box), and one pair of EH 6H30PI Gold pin (no box). If you're interested, send me a pm before I post them up in FS forum. By the way, I'm still waiting for the Amperex and Sylvania black plate to arrive. I prefer sell them all together to save you on shipping. And these tubes are worth trying or having extra as back up.

 Edit: didn't expect such high interest. I'll put them up in FS forum by tomorrow. I guess these 6ak5WB are really hot. I'm not trying to make any big profit, just trying to get what I paid for them back.

 I just ordered a fully upgraded WA6 SE. Sold my little-dot to fund it, needing to sell these tubes.


----------



## breakfastchef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dan_can* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm done with little-dot._

 

Why? 

 Look forward to your FS post.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dan_can* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_there are five Sylvania 6AK5WB, two matched WE 403B, one pair of Sylvania Gold Brand Sylvania 5654, one pair of Mullard M8100 (no box)_

 

I'm interested in the Sylvania's and possibly the Mullards. Will probably wait on FS though, as I'd like to know the price...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crewpsu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Peete,
 You might want to watch out. Not sure what Boston does, or may do, but i got a parking ticket once when I was in Washington D.C. Did the same thing you did and forgot about it, till about a 2 years later when the good ole city of D.C. decided to give it to a collections agency. My credit report ended up getting dinged until I cleared the whole mess up.

 My Little Dot MKIII should arrive today, I keep checking to see if there is a box on my door step every few mins, can't wait._

 


 Thanks for the fair warning. It's been about 23 years and haven't heard a peep from anything remotely related. Live in another country now to boot....

 Your gonna love the MkIII 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dan_can* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm done with little-dot. I'm selling all the tubes I bought for MK IV SE. I think there are five Sylvania 6AK5WB, two matched WE 403B, one pair of Sylvania Gold Brand Sylvania 5654, one pair of Amperex 5654, one pair of GE 5 star, one pair of TungSol 6ak5 (lettering gone), one pair of Sylvania black plate 6AK5, one pair of Mullard M8100 (no box), and one pair of EH 6H30PI Gold pin (no box). If you're interested, send me a pm before I post them up in FS forum. By the way, I'm still waiting for the Amperex and Sylvania black plate to arrive. I prefer sell them all together to save you on shipping. And these tubes are worth trying or having extra as back up.

 Edit: didn't expect such high interest. I'll put them up in FS forum by tomorrow. I guess these 6ak5WB are really hot. I'm not trying to make any big profit, just trying to get what I paid for them back.

 I just ordered a fully upgraded WA6 SE. Sold my little-dot to fund it, needing to sell these tubes._

 


 Wow a WA6SE. I'd like to get one in the future. He's moving up the food chain guys......hope the MKIV was enjoyable while you had it (noting quick sale the minute you post the FS ad) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## crewpsu

I have found a set of stock tubes to replace the one damaged in shipping, thank you ethebull.

 Now time to sit back and hear what this little amp can do.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *breakfastchef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why? 

 Look forward to your FS post._

 

About 6 MKIVse's were sold that had the bad resistors installed from the factory. Some were serviced and replacement resistors were installed to fix the problem. Some, got completely new MKIVse's like dan_can did.

 The only thing I know is that recently he posted that he thought the new one had different caps in it, than his first one. I told him that mine has the same as his, and that's the last I ever heard of it.

 I do know that the newer units take longer to "mature" than the earlier units, but I can't say for sure that this is due to the cap change/substitute. I do know that whoever buys his MKIVse, is getting a new MKIVse and it will still need to be "matured".

 All I can say is that I hope he will like the new amp he gets. A lateral move might be just what he needs.


----------



## ethebull

Jeez P, the guy bought a very fine amp. No need to treat him like a jilted lover.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jeez P, the guy bought a very fine amp. No need to treat him like a jilted lover._

 

That wasn't my intention, and after re-reading it again, it still doesn't sound like I was? Ow well. I really do hope he likes his new amp, no kidding.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I dunno E, I don't see that intent from P's post either. No biggie ...


----------



## dgbiker1

Hey guys, having a really bad day here and you can make me feel better- anyone want a free ($0+shipping) pair of Amperex EF91s? I'll send 'em to anyone with high impedance phones that wants them.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bummer, hopefully Thursday at the latest.
 Peete._

 

Peete - 
 Got the tubes today Muchos THANKAS!!!!
 Okay, so the tubes you sent say 6H6n on them, and so do the ones which came with my MK III. Is there an internal difference, or marking, etc.? The ones you sent do seem just a bit more 'punchy' than mine.

 Also: Muchas Muchas for the funny tubes with the crease, what's the deal on those? They sound a bit warmer than the burned in ones I have which came stock.


----------



## oatmeal769

So I got the Mullard M8161's I found on eBay for $9 / pair. They truly were NOS shielded logo Mullards, I even got to open the box and peel the paper, etc.

 Already, it's more the sound I'm looking for. My suspicions were correct, they are a bit darker. They emphasize the lows and extreme highs slightly more too.

 This is right out of the box, the only thing lacking might be the sound stage, but I know this is because they haven't broken in yet. They have improved markedly just in the two hours I've been burning them. In short, I'm diggin' 'em like an old soul record!

 Remember as in my earlier post, these differences are at best subtle. I'll not use the term 'night and day' here whatsoever...


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, having a really bad day here and you can make me feel better- anyone want a free ($0+shipping) pair of Amperex EF91s? I'll send 'em to anyone with high impedance phones that wants them._

 


 I'm up for a trade if you're interested...PM sent.....


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I got the Mullard M8161's I found on eBay for $9 / pair. They truly were NOS shielded logo Mullards, I even got to open the box and peel the paper, etc.

 Already, it's more the sound I'm looking for. My suspicions were correct, they are a bit darker. They emphasize the lows and extreme highs slightly more too.

 This is right out of the box, the only thing lacking might be the sound stage, but I know this is because they haven't broken in yet. They have improved markedly just in the two hours I've been burning them. In short, I'm diggin' 'em like an old soul record!

 Remember as in my earlier post, these differences are at best subtle. I'll not use the term 'night and day' here whatsoever..._

 

Hehehe! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You are correct and the sound stage will improve up to somewhere near the 40-45 hour mark. The bass and treble extension will tighten up some too. Already though, you are hearing the default "Mullard" sound! Rich, thicker and warmer. I know that isn't the best way to describe them, but somehow, it fits. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some folks will not like it at all, some will feel like this is the sound they have been looking for. 

 The way I see it, everyone should have a pair in their "tube kit" for those times where they are oversensitive or perhaps in a more romantic/laid back mood. There has been more nights than I can count, then the M8161's sound, soothed me to sleep. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you get a chance, play some smooth Jazz with them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very nice indeed!


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... You are correct and the sound stage will improve up to somewhere near the 40-45 hour mark. The bass and treble extension will tighten up some too. Already though, you are hearing the default "Mullard" sound! Rich, thicker and warmer. I know that isn't the best way to describe them, but somehow, it fits. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some folks will not like it at all, some will feel like this is the sound they have been looking for. 

 The way I see it, everyone should have a pair in their "tube kit" for those times where they are oversensitive or perhaps in a more romantic/laid back mood. There has been more nights than I can count, then the M8161's sound, soothed me to sleep. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you get a chance, play some smooth Jazz with them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very nice indeed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Interesting, I'm liking them more as a rocker / dynamics tube... They take stuff like hard rock and make it thick and phat, without bloating. It is a bit darker, and mid emphasis is less pronounced, but I find this lends to less listening fatigue with music that has a lot of information per kilobit. I can see how it isn't the sound for everyone, but for me it's much more suited as an all around tube. I can't wait till they're burned in.


----------



## oatmeal769

Now that I think of it more, I tend to favor the Mullard sound elsewhere too. I'm a bass player and I use 1960's era Mullard and Telefunken 12AX7 's in my preamp, having found those two to sound best to me. Mostly I use the Mullard channel, it just seems to fit my ear best.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete - 
 Got the tubes today Muchos THANKAS!!!!
 Okay, so the tubes you sent say 6H6n on them, and so do the ones which came with my MK III. Is there an internal difference, or marking, etc.? The ones you sent do seem just a bit more 'punchy' than mine.

 Also: Muchas Muchas for the funny tubes with the crease, what's the deal on those? They sound a bit warmer than the burned in ones I have which came stock._

 


 Hi Oatmeal,

 Glad you got them !!! Yep they are fine to use (6H6N). They are from the 70's so a little bit better construction (Novosibirsk plant is favored) usually = better sound. 

 The crimped sided tubes are those Russian driver tubes Pench raved about a while back ( 2 months ago or so ) They are (6AK5W equivalents) 6ZH1P-EV's and are very very good for rock, metal, aggressive music.

 Built like tanks and cheap (both types).

 Give them a fair chance in your MK III. You'll be surprised by the SQ. I call it the all Russian tube line up and use it for metal and such. Switch to USA made name brand drivers for the mellower stuff, when that mood strikes. Not to say the Russian tubes aren't good for mellow music, they are, just that some tubes are better for certain situations/music, even mood 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy Oatmeal. 

 Post your thoughts on them once they've lived a while in your MK III. I'd love to hear what you think of them.

 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Oatmeal,

 Glad you got them !!! Yep they are fine to use (6H6N). They are from the 70's so a little bit better construction (Novosibirsk plant is favored) usually = better sound. 

 The crimped sided tubes are those Russian driver tubes Pench raved about a while back ( 2 months ago or so ) They are (6AK5W equivalents) 6ZH1P-EV's and are very very good for rock, metal, aggressive music.

 Built like tanks and cheap (both types).

 Give them a fair chance in your MK III. You'll be surprised by the SQ. I call it the all Russian tube line up and use it for metal and such. Switch to USA made name brand drivers for the mellower stuff, when that mood strikes. Not to say the Russian tubes aren't good for mellow music, they are, just that some tubes are better for certain situations/music, even mood 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy Oatmeal. 

 Post your thoughts on them once they've lived a while in your MK III. I'd love to hear what you think of them.

 Regards,

 Peete._

 

I agree with PP's fine hearing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Russian "Rock" setup is great!


----------



## crewpsu

Hello everyone,
 I have a question about tubes for the little dot. What is the difference between the 6ak5 and the 6ak5w? Thanks
 Crew


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crewpsu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello everyone,
 I have a question about tubes for the little dot. What is the difference between the 6ak5 and the 6ak5w? Thanks
 Crew_

 

The W means mil spec 9 times out of 10. It's desirable to buy these types when available (for reasonable cost) over their lesser consumer level variant. Not to say a plain old 6AK5 won't sound great, it will, just that the W and gold pin/label usually = better sound,better construction (less likely to become microphonic) and much longer life.

 Military designations can be JAN,JHS,W,WA, etc. Google it for further info.

 Peete.


----------



## crewpsu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The W means mil spec 9 times out of 10. It's desirable to buy these types when available (for reasonable cost) over their lesser consumer level variant. Not to say a plain old 6AK5 won't sound great, it will, just that the W and gold pin/label usually = better sound,better construction (less likely to become microphonic) and much longer life.

 Military designations can be JAN,JHS,W,WA, etc. Google it for further info.

 Peete._

 


 Thanks Peete.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Well the oddest thing happened. My EF91 Mullards, which sounded like God's gift in the MKII I just sold, now sound like complete trash with my MKIII. They distort something fierce unless the volume is at a low level. The 6J1P-EVs are my new favorites now.

 Any ideas why there is such a big difference between the MKII and MKIII?


----------



## ciphercomplete

I whole heartily recommend that Little Dot owners upgrade their power cords to this low cost but high quality solution. One of the best purchase I have made.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the oddest thing happened. My EF91 Mullards, which sounded like God's gift in the MKII I just sold, now sound like complete trash with my MKIII. They distort something fierce unless the volume is at a low level. The 6J1P-EVs are my new favorites now.

 Any ideas why there is such a big difference between the MKII and MKIII?_

 

A lot of us are having problems with EF91s in the MKIII. They do seem to work okay with high impedance Sennheisers (and Beyers?) though.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Yeah, I thought I found a "good" EF91 tube after my experience with the the MKII. Oh well, I just ordered some Mullard 8161s. I hope they help me get over the loss of my EF91 Mullards.


----------



## JimSmiley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I thought I found a "good" EF91 tube after my experience with the the MKII. Oh well, I just ordered some Mullard 8161s. I hope they help me get over the loss of my EF91 Mullards._

 

I think you will get over it...and quick, I might add. Just got my in and the jumpers installed today. I paid a pretty price, but boy are they nice. I'm using the MKIII as a pre-amp right now and I'm getting really warm mids and a fat bottom. (nothing wrong with that) These tubes seem like they would be great with a monitor or two way speaker system. I haven't even plugged in the Grados yet.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I whole heartily recommend that Little Dot owners upgrade their power cords to this low cost but high quality solution. One of the best purchase I have made._

 

Do you actually hear a difference? I don't mean to be skeptical, but the MKIII doesn't draw even a small fraction of 15 amps at 120 volts, so 'bottoming out' etc. just isn't going to happen with a short length of regular cable. I can see using quality interconnects, and headphone / speaker cables, but hmmm....


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... I just ordered some Mullard 8161s. I hope they help me get over the loss of my EF91 Mullards._

 

Oh they will, in a BIG way! I love mine, I have some others I want to try as well, but I haven't been able to take these out yet! They're definitely my favorite so far, even over some 1940's Tung Sol blackplates I have.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you actually hear a difference? I don't mean to be skeptical, but the MKIII doesn't draw even a small fraction of 15 amps at 120 volts, so 'bottoming out' etc. just isn't going to happen with a short length of regular cable. I can see using quality interconnects, and headphone / speaker cables, but hmmm...._

 

Believe it not Oatmeal a decent power cable makes a noticeable difference, combine that with conditioner with balanced transformers...well come on over and listen for yourself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I was a skeptic at one time as well until I tried the combo mentioned. You don't have to buy expensive cables or a top notch conditioner either. I made a whole pile of John Risch (SP ?) recipe DIY power cables for about 35 bucks a piece and used his DIY plans for a balanced transformer power conditioner . Check it out for yourself if you fancy breaking out the soldering iron for some cheap DIY fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here's a link to his site...

Jon_Risch's Web Page, Index

 Peete.

 PS Try out the Russian Rock set already, dang Mullard head


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Believe it not Oatmeal a decent power cable makes a noticeable difference, combine that with conditioner with balanced transformers...well come on over and listen for yourself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was a skeptic at one time as well until I tried the combo mentioned. You don't have to buy expensive cables or a top notch conditioner either. I made a whole pile of John Risch (SP ?) recipe DIY power cables for about 35 bucks a piece and used his DIY plans for a balanced transformer power conditioner . Check it out for yourself if you fancy breaking out the soldering iron for some cheap DIY fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm totally with you and it makes a big difference with big current draws, (like my power amps in my bass rig) but I'm a skeptic on something this small... Still, for $10, it's worth a try... Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS Try out the Russian Rock set already, dang Mullard head 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Who you callin' Mullard head, Ye of yellow gumby headbanging fame? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will start the burn in tonight... About 40 hours, right?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm totally with you and it makes a big difference with big current draws, (like my power amps in my bass rig) but I'm a skeptic on something this small... Still, for $10, it's worth a try...Who you callin' Mullard head, Ye of yellow gumby headbanging fame? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will start the burn in tonight... About 40 hours, right?_

 



 Hehe, about 50 hours or so, give or take a few hours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS Off to sleep for me.


----------



## Skylab

Just as an FYI, I am selling some NOS Mullard EF92's very cheap in the Tweaks for sale forum for all you Little-Dot-Heads


----------



## dgbiker1

I'm under the impression that the Mullard M8161s are a warm tube with strong bass. Is that correct? 
 I'm looking for a good bass tube and off the top of my head that seems to be the way to go. Any other recommendations are welcome of course


----------



## crewpsu

Hello everyone,
 I purchased my little dot mkIII second hand from the forsale forum and no manual was included with it when I got it. Could someone post a picture of the jumper location and where it should be for the EF95 tubes and where I should move it if I use EF92 tubes? A good description would also work and if the manual is somewhere online and I can read this info for my own would you kindly direct me there? Thank you,
 Crew


----------



## rpveld

From the LD MK III manual:

 The Little Dot MK III has two jumper switches that allow two different types of driver tubes. You can access
 the jumpers through the amplifier’s bottom panel, and they are located to the sides of the pair of capacitors
 closest to the front of the amplifier. Please power off the amplifier, and unplug it for at least 10 minutes
 before attempting to change the jumper settings.
 To set the jumpers, insert a jumper cap over the pins using tweezers or similar tool. Make sure both sets of
 jumpers have been capped securely.
 If the jumpers are not bridged (i.e. no jumper cap in place), the following driver tubes may be used:
 · *WE403A*
 · *5654*, CK5654, GL5654, 5591, *CV4010*, CV5216, CV8246, 6069, CV10442
 · *EF95, M8100*, 6AK5W, CV10100, CV8159, CV8225, CV850
 · *6J1*
 If the jumpers are bridged (i.e. jumper cap in place), the following driver tubes may be used:
 · *EF92, 6CQ6*, CV2023, V884, VP6, *M8161*
 · *EF91*, 6AM6, CV10327, *CV138*, CV1955, CV2195, Z77
 · *CV131*, 9D6, W77
 Any other equivalents or drop-in replacements for the above-mentioned tubes (both sets) may also be used.
 Important Note: While all of the above tubes should technically be equivalent or similar, only the tubes in
 bold have officially been tested to be compatible.
 Added Note: Some users have reported distortion with the EF91 tube while others have not. We have been
 unable to reproduce distortion with Mullard branded EF91s, however this is something to keep in mind when
 considering tube-rolling EF91 tubes.

 You can get a manual yourself, you have to register here:
Viewing a forum - Little Dot Headphone Amplifier 

 Hope this helps.


----------



## ricco87

The front two oval holes are for the gains the ones further back are for the jumper switches.

 Just trying some 6Z1P-EV's and they are smoooooth. So full, really smooth bass and mids. Detail is still maintained to a decent degree in the highs. I can repeat what has been said before... These really are a rock and rollers dream, I have some Grado sr-225's on the way, should be a great combination. Think these may get a lot better and more accurate as the get used so fingers crossed they definately are a fun tube.

 Just a bit of info of where I got them:
6J1P (6Z1P) Made in USSR (1970-80s)=EF95,6F32. Lot of 5 on eBay, also Vacuum Tubes, Tubes, Vintage Electronics, Consumer Electronics (end time 25-Apr-08 15:07:46 BST)

 The strange thing is all 5 are different. There is 2 with grooves, both of them have rockets but are labelled differently and have a different filament (I don't know what it is!) above the highest plate inside the tube. Then there are 3 without grooves, two have rockets.

 Basically all are labelled differently and 1 grooved one has the same filament with a smooth one and the other grooved one has the filament as the other smooth one. Then there is the odd one out (with the biggest rocket 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) with a different filament. Hope this makes sense. No audible differences I can hear yet. 

 On fully burned in MkIII with Beyer DT880's, previous tubes were EF92's (Mullard 8161's)

 EDIT:

 Urrghh! They are AWFUL with dance/electronic music makes everything dead. So I slipped the Mullards back in to make a grin apear on my face with the dance/electronic. Then thought what if I have made a misstake with the 6Z1P-EV's and they are actually rubbish. So I put some rock on (with the Mullards) and Urrghh! (again) awful in comparison to the 6Z1P-EV's, light and day difference!!!

 6Z1P-EV's > EF92 8161's for rock
 EF92 8161s > 6Z1P-EV's for electronic/dance

 Anything where you enjoy listening to the tight base and synth highs go for the 8161's. Anything where you want to llisten to music with soul go for the 6Z1P-EV's. I'm amazed at the difference and very happy with the different tubes for different listening. It's like having numerous amps (I'm loving this tube rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 But the main thing again is get as many as you can afford as I'm sure they all sound different (as apposed to better/worse) with different headphones/music/ears. Its all about personal preference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 enojoy!


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ricco87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The front two oval holes are for the gains the ones further back are for the jumper switches.

 Just trying some 6Z1P-EV's and they are smoooooth. So full, really smooth bass and mids. Detail is still maintained to a decent degree in the highs. I can repeat what has been said before... These really are a rock and rollers dream, I have some Grado sr-225's on the way, should be a great combination. Think these may get a lot better and more accurate as the get used so fingers crossed they definately are a fun tube.

 Just a bit of info of where I got them:
6J1P (6Z1P) Made in USSR (1970-80s)=EF95,6F32. Lot of 5 on eBay, also Vacuum Tubes, Tubes, Vintage Electronics, Consumer Electronics (end time 25-Apr-08 15:07:46 BST)

 The strange thing is all 5 are different. There is 2 with grooves, both of them have rockets but are labelled differently and have a different filament (I don't know what it is!) above the highest plate inside the tube. Then there are 3 without grooves, two have rockets.

 Basically all are labelled differently and 1 grooved one has the same filament with a smooth one and the other grooved one has the filament as the other smooth one. Then there is the odd one out (with the biggest rocket 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) with a different filament. Hope this makes sense. No audible differences I can hear yet. 

 On fully burned in MkIII with Beyer DT880's, previous tubes were EF92's (Mullard 8161's)

 EDIT:

 Urrghh! They are AWFUL with dance/electronic music makes everything dead. So I slipped the Mullards back in to make a grin apear on my face with the dance/electronic. Then thought what if I have made a misstake with the 6Z1P-EV's and they are actually rubbish. So I put some rock on (with the Mullards) and Urrghh! (again) awful in comparison to the 6Z1P-EV's, light and day difference!!!

 6Z1P-EV's > EF92 8161's for rock
 EF92 8161s > 6Z1P-EV's for electronic/dance

 Anything where you enjoy listening to the tight base and synth highs go for the 8161's. Anything where you want to llisten to music with soul go for the 6Z1P-EV's. I'm amazed at the difference and very happy with the different tubes for different listening. It's like having numerous amps (I'm loving this tube rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 But the main thing again is get as many as you can afford as I'm sure they all sound different (as apposed to better/worse) with different headphones/music/ears. Its all about personal preference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 enojoy!_

 

is 6Z1P-EV the same as 6ZHIP-EV?


----------



## ricco87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is 6Z1P-EV the same as 6ZH1P-EV?_

 

I have no idea! I didn't even notice the two difference until you pointed it out!

 I have some 6ZH1P-IV's on the way from ethebull so I could try and compare them once I get them

 Could someone clear that up please?


----------



## JimSmiley

Hey fellow LDIII rollers.

 I'm looking for a pair of Amperex 5654s. If you have extras or know where I might could get a pair, let me know.

 TIA


----------



## ricco87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm under the impression that the Mullard M8161s are a warm tube with strong bass. Is that correct? 
 I'm looking for a good bass tube and off the top of my head that seems to be the way to go. Any other recommendations are welcome of course
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Not in my experience. They are very precise throughout, base is tight, mids are accurate and highs are the best I have heard so far. I would definately advise you try them. They might not blow you away but they are a very good tube with an even sound, especially good with electronic/dance type music not so much on rock. See my post a couple up, I think I also slightly reviewed the 8161' a few pages back if you want to search.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just as an FYI, I am selling some NOS Mullard EF92's very cheap in the Tweaks for sale forum for all you Little-Dot-Heads 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks SKY !!! Hows the Sweet II treating you (at the office) ?

 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is 6Z1P-EV the same as 6ZHIP-EV?_

 


 No, I don't think so. 6J1P is 6AK7 or 6Z1P-EV. EV is supposed to mean ruggedized mil spec. So these should be 6AK7W. Not the same tube as 6ZH1P-EV which are 6AK5W's. The 6Z1P's don't look nearly as well made as the 6ZH1P-EV's do (just my personal observation which counts for little 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).

 Both claim to be EF95 equivalents. Not sure if the specs of each are the same.I doubt it.

 Pench, Ethebull,Oatmeal, and myself all have the 6ZH1P-EV's. 

 Peete.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks SKY !!! Hows the Sweet II treating you (at the office) ?

 Regards,

 Peete._

 

It's a pretty nice amp! It's not the world's most nuanced or detailed, but it's very pleasant to listen to. I am using it mostly as a speaker amp in the office actually, and driving a pair of B&W DM601 s2's, it's really a delight. It seems to have taken up permanent residence


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a pretty nice amp! It's not the world's most nuanced or detailed, but it's very pleasant to listen to. I am using it mostly as a speaker amp in the office actually, and driving a pair of B&W DM601 s2's, it's really a delight. It seems to have taken up permanent residence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Cool. 
 Isn't funny how much enjoyment one can get from something you didn't expect much from in the first place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's all gravy, Sky, gravy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice office rig BTW. What's your source ?

 Regards,

 Peete.

 PS : I noticed in your sig you have a Ming Da phono stage. Heard she's a real gem. I just picked up a MC-7R pre amp (month back) and am about to lay down some green for a MC34-AB amp. I love the MC-7R (ref audio mods on the horizon).


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool. 
 Isn't funny how much enjoyment one can get from something you didn't expect much from in the first place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's all gravy, Sky, gravy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice office rig BTW. What's your source ?

 Regards,

 Peete.

 PS : I noticed in your sig you have a Ming Da phono stage. Heard she's a real gem. I just picked up a MC-7R pre amp (month back) and am about to lay down some green for a MC34-AB amp. I love the MC-7R (ref audio mods on the horizon)._

 

Sources are iTunes via USB, XM radio, and a Denon CD player. And my Ming Dan is a headphone amp, not a phono pre, but it sure is nice!


----------



## ciphercomplete

The Mullard 8161s are awesome. I am going to put my other tubes in storage and buy a second pair of the Mullards.


----------



## JimSmiley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Mullard 8161s are awesome. I am going to put my other tubes in storage and buy a second pair of the Mullards._

 

Sell me your Tung-Sols.


----------



## tjumper78

does anyone have some extra driver tubes to sell?
 i am looking for a pair of soviet tubes 6ZH1P-EV, or a pair of Tung-Sol 5654. shoot me a pm if you have them.
 i'm also gonna try the fs section.


----------



## crewpsu

Hello everyone,
 Reading through this thread I keep seeing grey plates, black plated, d getter, halo this halo that. What does all this mean? I tried a search but nothing jumped out at me explaining this. Is there a faq somewhere that explains all of this terminology? Thanks in advance
 Crew


----------



## Skylab

This is a pretty helpful site: How Vacuum Tubes Work

 Once you understand the basic parts of a tube (plate, grid, getter, etc.), then understanding the variants becomes easier.

 However, there is no universal law on things like are black plates better than grey, are halo getter better than bottom D getter - there is just collective wisdom, for what it's worth


----------



## crewpsu

Thanks skylab
 Was some very interesting reading. Made me realize there is no way I want to be making these things on an assembly line, tweezers and miniature arc wielders anyone?


----------



## JimSmiley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Mullard 8161s are awesome. I am going to put my other tubes in storage and buy a second pair of the Mullards._

 

I just rolled in a pair of Mullard EF92 CV131 6CQ6 (shielded/NOS) I got from Skylab. WOW!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone else have these? I'm putting my M8161s in storage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 How can a pair of tubes from the same family sound so different?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe it's my new Jellyfish power cord. LOL

 If you guys see these..grab them quick!! They give the rocket a run for its money.

 Gotta love getting new tubes on Friday of a three day weekend!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just rolled in a pair of Mullard EF92 CV131 6CQ6 (shielded/NOS) I got from Skylab. WOW!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Anyone else have these? I'm putting my M8161s in storage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 How can a pair of tubes from the same family sound so different?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe it's my new Jellyfish power cord. LOL

 If you guys see these..grab them quick!! They give the rocket a run for its money.

 Gotta love getting new tubes on Friday of a three day weekend!_

 

Yep! Those are nice tubes for sure! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I had just my little LDII++, those were my #2 favorite tube over all the rest. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to have to dig them out and give them a try in my MKIVse.


----------



## JimSmiley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep! Those are nice tubes for sure! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I had just my little LDII++, those were my #2 favorite tube over all the rest. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to have to dig them out and give them a try in my MKIVse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What's your #1? Sylvania Golds? GE 5 Star?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's your #1? Sylvania Golds? GE 5 Star?_

 

Currently, for the EF95 choices, the Sylvania Golds are. I'm going to go back and re-evaluate the EF92's again. There are many times when I have preferred the EF92 sound(s) in my MKII, but I want to find which one will sound the best in my best amp.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just rolled in a pair of Mullard EF92 CV131 6CQ6 (shielded/NOS) I got from Skylab. WOW!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone else have these? I'm putting my M8161s in storage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 How can a pair of tubes from the same family sound so different?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe it's my new Jellyfish power cord. LOL

 If you guys see these..grab them quick!! They give the rocket a run for its money.

 Gotta love getting new tubes on Friday of a three day weekend!_

 

I have those but they are not in use right now. So you would say that they are better than M8161? I haven't heard the M8161 but thought about getting them, but don't want to get them if the CV131 is better.

 Whats the difference between M8161 and CV131?


----------



## JimSmiley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have those but they are not in use right now. So you would say that they are better than M8161? I haven't heard the M8161 but thought about getting them, but don't want to get them if the CV131 is better.

 Whats the difference between M8161 and CV131?_

 

Take this for what it's worth (this is my first tube amp). To my ears and with my setup, the CV131 does both the low end and high end better. And what really surprises me is that these are right out of the box!! I'll admit I'm skeptical when it comes to burning in cables, but I've become a big believer that tubes get better with burn in...because I can hear it. 

 The real difference for me is the bass..to me the M8161 was a little flabby..now, that may improve with more hours, but it's gonna be hard to pull the CV131 now. The bass is VERY tight and the low low notes really extend.

 The mids sound about the same to me..which is to say spot on.

 The highs with the CV131 are very natural sounding especially with high hat and other cymbols.

 I will say that the CV131 sounds more colored to me..more tubey...more analog. If you into a very analytical or neutral sound these may not be for you. 

 As always, this just an opinion...others feel free to disagree..YMMV


----------



## Penchum

New pictures of the production MKVI: Viewing a thread - NEW! Little Dot MARK VI balance tube Amp.

 Me want.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New pictures of the production MKVI: Viewing a thread - NEW! Little Dot MARK VI balance tube Amp.

 Me want. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Beautiful
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What a coincidence, I'm about to start a real job and I was just getting started pricing out balanced amps to go with an Opus. I'm guessing $400-500?


----------



## JimSmiley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Beautiful
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What a coincidence, I'm about to start a real job and I was just getting started pricing out balanced amps to go with an Opus. I'm guessing $400-500?_

 

I read $699 somewhere..not sure about the source FWIW. It is very attractive..drool..


----------



## waxer

So I have some of the russian tubes that you all like with the grooves but they have started to distort on the highs. Changed back to the original tubes and all is well. Is there any explanation for this or have they died on me. Used them for about 60 hours.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New pictures of the production MKVI: Viewing a thread - NEW! Little Dot MARK VI balance tube Amp._

 

So, is it worth the price and complexity to go balanced? What are the benefits?


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, is it worth the price and complexity to go balanced? What are the benefits?_

 

From my limited knowledge so far, balanced wiring (in any application) reduces interference and ground loop effects. Since you have a pair of signal wires running to your driver, any noise that is picked up in the line will show up on the + and - terminals of the driver, meaning a 0V difference, therefore zero current and no effect on the driver

 In audio it also has the benefit of better channel separation as you have two completely different circuits for the left and right channel (imagine one MKIII for each HP driver
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). It's also claimed to improve the dynamic range by a few dB.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *waxer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I have some of the russian tubes that you all like with the grooves but they have started to distort on the highs. Changed back to the original tubes and all is well. Is there any explanation for this or have they died on me. Used them for about 60 hours._

 

It depends on where you got the tubes from, unfortunately not all Russian tubes are made the same. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From my limited knowledge so far, balanced wiring (in any application) reduces interference and ground loop effects. Since you have a pair of signal wires running to your driver, any noise that is picked up in the line will show up on the + and - terminals of the driver, meaning a 0V difference, therefore zero current and no effect on the driver

 In audio it also has the benefit of better channel separation as you have two completely different circuits for the left and right channel (imagine one MKIII for each HP driver
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). It's also claimed to improve the dynamic range by a few dB._

 

The main benefit from going balanced comes from the increased power and slew rate, the need for noise reduction is quite minimal at the kind of length typical of headphone cables. See this article from HeadRoom for a good intro.


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ethebull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Different tubes pop up sporadically on eBay. Right now the Sylvania is the hot tube. The sellers who list them for $4-5 don't pay attention to this thread and I'm sure they'll be up on eBay again.

 They are Raytheons, but the box says 12/81. The ones Trapper32 really likes were from 10/43. Chances are they changed them in 40 years time. I haven't received my order of 1943's yet._

 

Edit: I was a bit overly enthusiastic with these tubes. Must have been the beer. 


 I'm 5 hours into the 12/81 Raytheons and I think they're fantastic. Perhaps even my favorite. They're the warmest tubes I have and the most forgiving of bad/harsh recordings without forfeiting much dynamics and detail. A narrower soundstage than the others(will probably open up with further burn in) but it suits my grados quite well. The hunt is on for the 1943s


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Any difference between EF95 and E95F ? To be specific Amperex PQ E95F.

 I've looked at the specs for both types, but I'm not so sure. Anyone know for sure if these will work in the MK III ?

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any difference between EF95 and E95F ? To be specific Amperex PQ E95F.

 I've looked at the specs for both types, but I'm not so sure. Anyone know for sure if these will work in the MK III ?

 Peete._

 

The only thing I could find for sure, is that they are 5654 compatibles. If they aren't to expensive, GO FOR IT. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We need some NEW tube blood in here.


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Take this for what it's worth (this is my first tube amp). To my ears and with my setup, the CV131 does both the low end and high end better. And what really surprises me is that these are right out of the box!! I'll admit I'm skeptical when it comes to burning in cables, but I've become a big believer that tubes get better with burn in...because I can hear it. 

 The real difference for me is the bass..to me the M8161 was a little flabby..now, that may improve with more hours, but it's gonna be hard to pull the CV131 now. The bass is VERY tight and the low low notes really extend.

 The mids sound about the same to me..which is to say spot on.

 The highs with the CV131 are very natural sounding especially with high hat and other cymbols.

 I will say that the CV131 sounds more colored to me..more tubey...more analog. If you into a very analytical or neutral sound these may not be for you. 

 As always, this just an opinion...others feel free to disagree..YMMV
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 


 I understand what you are saying.
 I just rolled a pair of matched Telefunken CV 131 and they made me smile right out of the box.
 First I swapped the 6ZH1P-EV's, which I really like, with the 8161's. After burning those in I swapped back to the 6ZH1P-EV's, I don't really like the 8161's but can't put my finger on the reason why I don't like them.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So now I am listening to the CV131, and loving every minute of it.
 Can't wait for them to burn in.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only thing I could find for sure, is that they are 5654 compatibles. If they aren't to expensive, GO FOR IT. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We need some NEW tube blood in here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's good enough for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hehe. Well I have some Telefunken 6AK5's and I thought what better than to pit those against some Amperex PQ's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Two pairs of PQ's for 18 bucks. Had to dig for a couple of hours to unearth these puppies buried in 50 pages of tubes. Do your leg work fella's , you too can unearth an E type find. E is the king of finding gems for not much jack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Well it happened again. Just like with my pair of Mullard EF91s my pair of Mullard 8161s have begun to distort when using anything but my hd580s. For some reason they still sound divine with my 580s probably because they are high impedance.

 I might be done with the EF92/EF91 family after this. I just don't understand whats going on with them.

 Does anybody know if this distortion eventually disappears with further use? I have already put in about 50 hours on both sets of Mullards and the distortion appeared at about the 45 hour mark for both.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it happened again. Just like with my pair of Mullard EF91s my pair of Mullard 8161s have begun to distort when using anything but my hd580s. For some reason they still sound divine with my 580s probably because they are high impedance.

 I might be done with the EF92/EF91 family after this. I just don't understand whats going on with them.

 Does anybody know if this distortion eventually disappears with further use? I have already put in about 50 hours on both sets of Mullards and the distortion appeared at about the 45 hour mark for both._

 

I sure will try to help. Tell us the source data again, and also what gain settings are being used when this happens to the M8161s. Thanks!


----------



## ciphercomplete

Thanks Penchum. I will switch the tubes and gain settings and take notes on where the distortion begins.


----------



## JimSmiley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I understand what you are saying.
 I just rolled a pair of matched Telefunken CV 131 and they made me smile right out of the box.
 First I swapped the 6ZH1P-EV's, which I really like, with the 8161's. After burning those in I swapped back to the 6ZH1P-EV's, I don't really like the 8161's but can't put my finger on the reason why I don't like them.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So now I am listening to the CV131, and loving every minute of it.
 Can't wait for them to burn in._

 

Exactly..I had such high hopes for the 8161s. I'm not saying they're a bad tube..maybe just not "exactly perfect" in my set up. I really want to try those Telefunken CV131s..if you ever want to do a Telefunken for Mullard trade for a couple of weeks..let me know.

 CV131 FTW!!


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly..I had such high hopes for the 8161s. I'm not saying they're a bad tube..maybe just not "exactly perfect" in my set up. I really want to try those Telefunken CV131s..if you ever want to do a Telefunken for Mullard trade for a couple of weeks..let me know.

 CV131 FTW!!_

 

You should try and get your hands on a pair of Tung Sol 403B. They worked really well with my SR80s while I had them.


----------



## JimSmiley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should try and get your hands on a pair of Tung Sol 403B. They worked really well with my SR80s while I had them._

 

Yep..I've been looking for the Tung Sols and the Aperex 5654s.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Well I did some gain switching and the result is basically the same. I used a standalone CD player and my computer (320kbit aac/mp4 files) as sources. My Mullards definitely have some headphone impedance issue. My Goldring DR150s are rated 32 and my K-501s are 120. Both of these cans distort when the gain level set to 5 or 4 at below normal listening levels. The Goldrings distort badly on 10, 5, and 4 gain and on the lowest gain when the volume is slightly louder than normal listening levels.This is a real shame because out of the box, both pairs of tubes mated really well with both of these cans with no audible distortion even at higher than normal listening levels.

 I have a 75 ohm impedance adapter which significantly reduces the distortion for each of these two cans but the result is still not listenable. Plus it makes my already hard to drive K-501s even more difficult to drive. 

 Unlike my other two cans the Senn HD580s (300 ohm) show no signs distortion. Its not just a night and day difference. It is the equivalent of midnight on Pluto versus actually standing on the Sun. The Mullards are made for Senns. The combo is so good I am really thinking about speeding up my timetable to buy a second amp just so I can keep my MKIII on EF92 mode just for the Senns. I imagine that the result is the same for any high impedance (250+) pair of cans.

 I am going to try one more thing with these 2 pairs of tubes before I shelve them for a while. Both pairs have about 50 hours on them and distortion did not develop until about the 45 hour mark. I am going to do 5 intensive burn in session at eight hours a piece in order to get them both up to about 100 hours and then check for distortion.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I did some gain switching and the result is basically the same. I used a standalone CD player and my computer (320kbit aac/mp4 files) as sources. My Mullards definitely have some headphone impedance issue. My Goldring DR150s are rated 32 and my K-501s are 120. Both of these cans distort when the gain level set to 5 or 4 at below normal listening levels. The Goldrings distort badly on 10, 5, and 4 gain and on the lowest gain when the volume is slightly louder than normal listening levels.This is a real shame because out of the box, both pairs of tubes mated really well with both of these cans with no audible distortion even at higher than normal listening levels.

 I have a 75 ohm impedance adapter which significantly reduces the distortion for each of these two cans but the result is still not listenable. Plus it makes my already hard to drive K-501s even more difficult to drive. 

 Unlike my other two cans the Senn HD580s (300 ohm) show no signs distortion. Its not just a night and day difference. It is the equivalent of midnight on Pluto versus actually standing on the Sun. The Mullards are made for Senns. The combo is so good I am really thinking about speeding up my timetable to buy a second amp just so I can keep my MKIII on EF92 mode just for the Senns. I imagine that the result is the same for any high impedance (250+) pair of cans.

 I am going to try one more thing with these 2 pairs of tubes before I shelve them for a while. Both pairs have about 50 hours on them and distortion did not develop until about the 45 hour mark. I am going to do 5 intensive burn in session at eight hours a piece in order to get them both up to about 100 hours and then check for distortion._

 

Thanks for taking the time to investigate! They are NOS, so it is possible that both pairs are bad, but the fact that you can drive the other phones with them and not have a problem, makes my mind wonder. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Were you thinking of an SS amp for the second one?


----------



## systemerror909

Can anyone comment on the sound of soviet tubes? I found this site:

6J1P-EV / EF95 / 6F32 / 6AK7 Russian pentode tube

 Prices look pretty good, I haven't tried any tube rolling yet.


----------



## JimSmiley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *systemerror909* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone comment on the sound of soviet tubes? I found this site:

6J1P-EV / EF95 / 6F32 / 6AK7 Russian pentode tube

 Prices look pretty good, I haven't tried any tube rolling yet._

 

I think you will like them..especially for rock. Look the same as the ones Roger B sent me (thanks Roger). They may have a cool groove in them. I call mine 62H1P-EV, but the tube markings are identical...someone else may be able to elaborate...Go for it!!


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly..I had such high hopes for the 8161s. I'm not saying they're a bad tube..maybe just not "exactly perfect" in my set up. I really want to try those Telefunken CV131s..if you ever want to do a Telefunken for Mullard trade for a couple of weeks..let me know.

 CV131 FTW!!_

 

Ah, I already have some Mullards CV131 on the way.And also an other pair of Telefunken.
 I don’t mind sending you a pair of Telefunken if you want to try them. You just have to wait until I have received the other pairs I ordered, at the moment I don’t want to go back to any other tubes I own.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Let me know where you live and I will send them to you to try them out.
 It could take some time though.I expect the Telefunken at the end of next week.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

If you guys ever get a chance to try or buy Telefunken 6AK5's do it, they are wonderful, highly lively, unabashedly good toe tappers.....great tube. Detail in spades...relaxed top end, liquid smooth mids, yet not a hint of bloat/ripeness in bass or low mids. 

 Next up Amperex PQ E95F's, in a week or so..

 Peete.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you guys ever get a chance to try or buy Telefunken 6AK5's do it, they are wonderful, highly lively, unabashedly good toe tappers.....great tube. Detail in spades...relaxed top end, liquid smooth mids, yet not a hint of bloat/ripeness in bass or low mids. 

 Next up Amperex PQ E95F's, in a week or so..

 Peete._

 

Aren't they rather expensive though? All telefunkens I've seen have been very expensive.


----------



## shamu144

Hi to all LDMKIII owners,

 I am thinking of rolling the driver tubes on my LDMKIII but I have still basic question regarding tube rolling, as I am pretty new to tubes. 
 I read that tubes have to be intensively tested and checked (microphony, noise, etc...) as performances might differ a lot between 2 identical tubes. How do you make sure then you are buying perfectly matched tubes for your LDMKIII ? Any specific recommended place to shop ? Thank you !


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aren't they rather expensive though? All telefunkens I've seen have been very expensive._

 


 You are correct, although the 6AK5's aren't too expensive. I got a matched quad for 80 (including shipping from Taiwan) bucks. Not outrageous when you consider matched pairs of other top types will go for 35-45 a pair. I agree with you though, Tele's are pricey.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shamu144* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi to all LDMKIII owners,

 I am thinking of rolling the driver tubes on my LDMKIII but I have still basic question regarding tube rolling, as I am pretty new to tubes. 
 I read that tubes have to be intensively tested and checked (microphony, noise, etc...) as performances might differ a lot between 2 identical tubes. How do you make sure then you are buying perfectly matched tubes for your LDMKIII ? Any specific recommended place to shop ? Thank you !_

 


 Try Yen Audio on eBay. Great guy for LD tube selections, paired and tested with good equipment.

 Peete.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 it seems that distortion problems stemmed from one bad power tube. 

 A few days ago during all my testing trying to find the source of the distortion I neglected to switch the power tubes out. So today I tried a pair of Chinese 6n6 tubes I had laying around from my MK II days and lo and behold all of the distortion disappeared. 

 Apparently one of the stock tubes has been on their way out since my MK III arrived which explains why my beloved Mullard 6am6 tubes sounded like crap the day my MK III arrived. 

 So I am back to Mullard 8161 bliss. My only issue now is that I need some new 6H6PI power tubes. I feel like I am missing something by using these regular 6h6 tubes.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it seems that distortion problems stemmed from one bad power tube. 

 A few days ago during all my testing trying to find the source of the distortion I neglected to switch the power tubes out. So today I tried a pair of Chinese 6n6 tubes I had laying around from my MK II days and lo and behold all of the distortion disappeared. 

 Apparently one of the stock tubes has been on their way out since my MK III arrived which explains why my beloved Mullard 6am6 tubes sounded like crap the day my MK III arrived. 

 So I am back to Mullard 8161 bliss. My only issue now is that I need some new 6H6PI power tubes. I feel like I am missing something by using these regular 6h6 tubes._

 


 Theres a dude on eBay that sells 6N6P-I's in lots of 10 or 12 I think. They are Novosibirsk made to boot (best plant for 6N6PI's).

 Here's a link to the vendor's auction,

RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - eBay (item 250253491326 end time Jun-05-08 12:09:46 PDT)


 Peete.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try Yen Audio on eBay. Great guy for LD tube selections, paired and tested with good equipment.

 Peete._

 

x2


----------



## shamu144

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2_

 

Thank you both ! I will keep that address in my favorites and come back after further testing.


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Theres a dude on eBay that sells 6N6P-I's in lots of 10 or 12 I think. They are Novosibirsk made to boot (best plant for 6N6PI's).

 Here's a link to the vendor's auction,

RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - eBay (item 250253491326 end time Jun-05-08 12:09:46 PDT)


 Peete._

 

Are these compatible with an unmodded MKIII? Just remembered about some post ages ago on first pages of this thread about power tubes that need some kind of modifications. So have to make sure before bidding. Could be that my memory is playing tricks on me, wouldn't be the first time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh by the way, just got a notice from post-office that my 6ZH1P's have arrived. Gonna get em tomorrow, I'll post my thoughts about them in few days, compared to stock tubes and Mullard EF95's.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are these compatible with an unmodded MKIII? Just remembered about some post ages ago on first pages of this thread about power tubes that need some kind of modifications._

 

They are the same as the stock tubes that come with the MKIII. I think you are confusing them with the 6H30PI tubes.


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are the same as the stock tubes that come with the MKIII. I think you are confusing them with the 6H30PI tubes._

 

Yeah those were the ones. Thanks for the quick reply!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah those were the ones. Thanks for the quick reply!_

 


 What's the dog listening to ? Duran Duran - Hungry like the Wolf ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the dog listening to ? Duran Duran - Hungry like the Wolf ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

This actually. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Which EF92 would you guys recommend for first EF92-family tube? I've been thinking of Mullard CV131 / 6CQ6, but there's so many choices within reasonable price, that I just can't decide.

 I listen mostly to metal / ebm, but a lot classical / rock / almost anything, so it wouldn't hurt that the tubes were all-arounders. 

 Anyone heard United Electron EF92, how do they compare to Mullard's? (This forum really needs a search-engine that searches and shows replys inside threads.. or is there one and I just don't know how to use it?) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But now to post-office to get my new shiny tubes. Too bad I have to leave for work almost immediately after that, so they just have to burn all alone for the day.

 E: quick impressions after ~30min listening: OH MY GOD! I never believed that tubes could sound so different. Lowest bass notes are thousand times clearer, on the stock tubes they sounded muddy and undetailed. Overall detail too improved greatly. Highs are almost the same. These kicks ass of the stock tubes with ease. I really wait for these to burn in and how good they will sound after that. Everyone should get a pair of these, at the current price (I paid ~16 euros with postage for two pairs), I can't even imagine better tubes in quality/value aspect.

 But now off to work, more listening in ~9hours.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_♠Everyone should get a pair of these, at the current price_

 

Which ones??? 
 I'm still wanting to hear a bit more bass...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which ones??? 
 I'm still wanting to hear a bit more bass..._

 

These from his signature (I think): Russian 6ZH1P-EV


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which ones??? 
 I'm still wanting to hear a bit more bass..._

 

Yeah, as Penchum said, Russian 6ZH1P-EV. Compared to stock tubes these give a lot more bass, not too much instead much deeper and detailed. 

 Don't know if my EF95's were broken from the start but I didn't like their sound at all. And after few months second tube gave up and provided me with only a hiss, which could indicate they had problems from beginning.

 But I can't really express how much I like these Russian 6ZH1P-EV's. These are like the stock tubes with twinturbo. Every aspect sounds noticably better, and the extra detail these give is just amazing. And no hiss/tinning or anything which I've had with 2 pairs of stock tubes and the EF95's. I was thinking of buying LDMKV for a second amp but with these tubes I'm sure that I don't need to.

 Only problem is (well.. only for my wallet) that now I have a thirst for more! Gotta catch 'em all, tubes that is!


----------



## dgbiker1

Interesting little tid-bit:
 I was comparing my tubes tonight (many thanks to Trapper for the Sylvania and Raytheon trade!). I noticed that my National/Tung Sol 403B black plates are EXACTLY the same physically as the Sylvania 6AK5WB tubes. 

 I thought the Sylvanias might have a little more, but less controlled bass, however it's hard to say exactly because of the time it takes to switch between tubes and the relative lack of burn-in on the Sylvanias.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting little tid-bit:
 I was comparing my tubes tonight (many thanks to Trapper for the Sylvania and Raytheon trade!). I noticed that my National/Tung Sol 403B black plates are EXACTLY the same physically as the Sylvania 6AK5WB tubes. 

 I thought the Sylvanias might have a little more, but less controlled bass, however it's hard to say exactly because of the time it takes to switch between tubes and the relative lack of burn-in on the Sylvanias._

 

Interesting observations dgb !! 

 The Amperex PQ E95F's I ordered last week, showed up today. I forgot about the flash these things give off when first lit up. I thought I baked the tubes and my amp LOL....happily that was not the case. The PQ e95F's are indeed perfectly happy in the MK III, whats more they have the bass qualities of the Mullard CV4015's without the lower mid emphasis, the brilliant 3D imaging and detail resolution of the gold label Syl 6AK5WB's, the silky sweet highs of the Telefunken with a measure of the Syl's sweet top end as well. These tubes absolutely love all types of music, from metal to Mozart. Got two matched pairs for 18 bucks......Would make E proud methinks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 They only have 5 hours on em, they get better and better as I keep listening...impressive SQ for a major question mark when I took a chance and hit the bin button. I certainly wasn't expecting this at all. 

 If you see Amperex PQ E95F's for sale anywhere, buy them you won't be sorry at all.....the flash at start up is kinda neat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS These are the made in Holland white labels,early 60's vintage.


----------



## cheezies

I bought a set of 4 6ZH1P-EV tubes from anthonywelsh on eBay yesterday, hopefully they'll be arriving soon. 

 His listing doesn't indicate that they're matched, how do I match them myself? Do I need a lot of the same tubes to find a match? Perhaps I should have gone with the set of 8?


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cheezies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought a set of 4 6ZH1P-EV tubes from anthonywelsh on eBay yesterday, hopefully they'll be arriving soon. 

 His listing doesn't indicate that they're matched, how do I match them myself? Do I need a lot of the same tubes to find a match? Perhaps I should have gone with the set of 8?_

 

Basically it doesn't matter if they are matched or not. And the tubes you (and I) bought are not matched. Just stick them on and if you hear (which I doubt) difference between tubes try 3rd one etc. I just put first ones I got out of the package and haven't heard _any_ difference between them. Tried swapping their places and everything but nothing. So don't worry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, it took about two weeks for them to come to Finland, so I guess it's the same about to anywhere in the world.


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Amperex PQ E95F's I ordered last week, showed up today._

 

Can I ask where you found them? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tried every source I know and no luck. Or actually I found ONE tube which was used.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These from his signature (I think): Russian 6ZH1P-EV_

 

I recently put my russians back in after a brief stint with the Mullard 8161s. I am even more impressed with them now. I think I prefer them to the Mullards. They are a steal at the current price. Clear highs and deep articulate bass.


----------



## dgbiker1

Does anyone need tubes for the next couple millennia? I just found this auction for 234 6AK5 tubes that's currently going for $8.00! I'm moving in a few weeks so I can't really bid on this, but someone else might like to. I see a bunch of RCAs in there, so you'd be more than breaking even if just one pair works
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



6AK5 Electron Tubes, Huge Lot of 234 Vacuum Tubes - eBay (item 140238456520 end time Jun-10-08 09:19:25 PDT)


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone need tubes for the next couple millennia? I just found this auction for 234 6AK5 tubes that's currently going for $8.00! I'm moving in a few weeks so I can't really bid on this, but someone else might like to. I see a bunch of RCAs in there, so you'd be more than breaking even if just one pair works
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



6AK5 Electron Tubes, Huge Lot of 234 Vacuum Tubes - eBay (item 140238456520 end time Jun-10-08 09:19:25 PDT)_

 

Wow...it wouldn't take too much to get your money's worth out of that sale! It'd be worth buying a tube tester just to sift through these & see what's good & what's not.


----------



## cheezies

A local shop is offering me WE403A tubes for $75 each, I couldn't find any listings on eBay for them, is this a reasonable price? The most expensive tubes I've seen on eBay for the MKIII run around $60 for a pair.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cheezies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A local shop is offering me WE403A tubes for $75 each, I couldn't find any listings on eBay for them, is this a reasonable price? The most expensive tubes I've seen on eBay for the MKIII run around $60 for a pair._

 

Western Electric 403As? I see those on ebay occasionally for about $10/pair.


----------



## cheezies

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Western Electric 403As? I see those on ebay occasionally for about $10/pair._

 

Thanks for the tip!

 Do the 403B's work on the MKIII as well? The MKIII manual doesn't list the 403B as compatible tubes.


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cheezies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the tip!

 Do the 403B's work on the MKIII as well? The MKIII manual doesn't list the 403B as compatible tubes._

 

All 403s will work. I would also check the pictures if you see a listing. I almost bought a pair (can't remember if it was A or B) and realized they were actually identical to the stock GE tubes, might be something to keep in mind


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can I ask where you found them? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tried every source I know and no luck. Or actually I found ONE tube which was used. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That one tube that's left is the same place I bought the 2 pair from.They are hard to find. Keep trying every week/or day until you find a pair.

 Peete


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone need tubes for the next couple millennia? I just found this auction for 234 6AK5 tubes that's currently going for $8.00! I'm moving in a few weeks so I can't really bid on this, but someone else might like to. I see a bunch of RCAs in there, so you'd be more than breaking even if just one pair works
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



6AK5 Electron Tubes, Huge Lot of 234 Vacuum Tubes - eBay (item 140238456520 end time Jun-10-08 09:19:25 PDT)_

 

Jeez that's like better than Christmas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cool find dgb


----------



## Tridacnid

Would anyone be interested in buying those 6AK5s as a group and then splitting them up or something? Who has a tube tester and a MKIII?

 EDIT: Ooooo, 100th post. YAY!


----------



## cheezies

Is it useful to change the power tubes? I've been looking at the Electro-Harmonix ones.

 I've also been looking here
Vintage Audio Tubes Hi Fi Valves

 The owner says he can get me a pair of WE 403B matched for $26.00, but the minimum order is $50. Does anyone know of any other tubes that will work on the MKIII? I've looked at the MKIII PDF manual and compared the compatible tubes to the site, but the 403B and 403A were the only ones I could find.


----------



## breakfastchef

I have directed my tube rolling foucs on driver tubes. I do not recall if this is a quote from Penchum or Little Dot, but..."Power Tubes account for about 15% of the possible changes in SQ. The other 85% is the Driver Tubes."


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cheezies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it useful to change the power tubes? I've been looking at the Electro-Harmonix ones.

 I've also been looking here
Vintage Audio Tubes Hi Fi Valves

 The owner says he can get me a pair of WE 403B matched for $26.00, but the minimum order is $50. Does anyone know of any other tubes that will work on the MKIII? I've looked at the MKIII PDF manual and compared the compatible tubes to the site, but the 403B and 403A were the only ones I could find._

 

Just remember that if you go to a 6H30 type power tube, you must do the resistor mod first. On a MKIII, it can be a challenge for sure. On a MKII, it is much easier.


----------



## Project22a

MKII user here.

 I'm finding the stock tubes to be a bit bright so I'm looking for something with smoother highs. I'd like for the low end to be more prominent and robust, however without any extra "punch". I think the mid/mid-bass is fine as it is and I'm not looking for any sort of bloat in that area. I suppose the best way I can describe this is that I'm looking for a more wholesome, organic presentation. Any recommendations?

 Not looking to spend a whole lot; this will be my first tube rolling experience.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Project22a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MKII user here.

 I'm finding the stock tubes to be a bit bright so I'm looking for something with smoother highs. I'd like for the low end to be more prominent and robust, however without any extra "punch". I think the mid/mid-bass is fine as it is and I'm not looking for any sort of bloat in that area. I suppose the best way I can describe this is that I'm looking for a more wholesome, organic presentation. Any recommendations?

 Not looking to spend a whole lot; this will be my first tube rolling experience._

 

Try the United Electron EF92 or Mullard's M8161. Both have much better bass performance with the Mullard being a bit more emphatic in its presentation.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try the United Electron EF92 or Mullard's M8161. Both have much better bass performance with the Mullard being a bit more emphatic in its presentation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

X2 DoA is right on the money, as usual.


----------



## karn1911

After much investigation I have discovered that one of the stock power tubes in my MK3 sounds so very off.

 I'm looking to get them upgraded to something better (without resistor modding.) 
 Could someone suggest some and where I could purchase them?


----------



## karn1911

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it seems that distortion problems stemmed from one bad power tube. 

 A few days ago during all my testing trying to find the source of the distortion I neglected to switch the power tubes out. So today I tried a pair of Chinese 6n6 tubes I had laying around from my MK II days and lo and behold all of the distortion disappeared. 

 Apparently one of the stock tubes has been on their way out since my MK III arrived which explains why my beloved Mullard 6am6 tubes sounded like crap the day my MK III arrived. 

 So I am back to Mullard 8161 bliss. My only issue now is that I need some new 6H6PI power tubes. I feel like I am missing something by using these regular 6h6 tubes._

 

Wow, having read that, this is exactly what has happened to my tubes.
 I'm a bit relieved to know the distortion will be gone too.

 Makes me wonder about the quality of the stock tubes LD ships out with though...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *karn1911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After much investigation I have discovered that one of the stock power tubes in my MK3 sounds so very off.

 I'm looking to get them upgraded to something better (without resistor modding.) 
 Could someone suggest some and where I could purchase them?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *karn1911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, having read that, this is exactly what has happened to my tubes.
 I'm a bit relieved to know the distortion will be gone too.

 Makes me wonder about the quality of the stock tubes LD ships out with though..._

 

Ya, not to worry though. They bench test all unit prior to shipping, so tubes that are "flaky" upon arrival, are due to handling during shipping. If you email DavidZ and tell him what tube is bad, he will send you out a replacement. They have been very good about this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For a power tube without the resistor mod, you would be looking for a pair of 6H6N-PI tubes. Usually, someone from Russia is selling them on eBay in lots of 8 or 10, for a nice price. The -PI will look like a backwards "N".


----------



## dr dougie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Project22a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MKII user here.

 I'm finding the stock tubes to be a bit bright so I'm looking for something with smoother highs. I'd like for the low end to be more prominent and robust, however without any extra "punch". I think the mid/mid-bass is fine as it is and I'm not looking for any sort of bloat in that area. I suppose the best way I can describe this is that I'm looking for a more wholesome, organic presentation. Any recommendations?

 Not looking to spend a whole lot; this will be my first tube rolling experience._

 

I haven't tried as many tubes as some of the people around here but I can recommend the Brimar Ediswan CV138/6AM6 that audiwrx is selling on ebay. I didn't try them for awhile because of someone's post here but they haven't come out of my LD since I put the jumpers on last week. They have a wonderful organic tube sound, nice soundstage, very smooth treble and sound good with all types of music but especially vocal and acoustic. Only weakness might be that the bass is also smooth if you prefer more prominent bass.


----------



## Project22a

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm gonna try out those Mullard 8161's first and go from there. Is there a preferred place to buy these?

 EDIT: I'm gonna have to install those jumpers to use these, correct?


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Project22a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm gonna try out those Mullard 8161's first and go from there. Is there a preferred place to buy these?_

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but the 8161's are my favorite so far! I got mine NOS unwrapped on eBay for about $20 with shipping. Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Project22a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm gonna have to install those jumpers to use these, correct?_

 

Yes.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but the 8161's are my favorite so far! I got mine NOS unwrapped on eBay for about $20 with shipping.Yes._

 

Hey Oat!

 Gotta love those top end EF92's for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have always felt, that they give us more "tube" sound than the EF95's, "generally". Mullard really had the "tube" sound down to a science IMHO.

 I'm going to switch my MKIVse back to EF92 mode today, and start with the M8161's or 6CQ6's again. I miss listening with them late at night, using my HD-650's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to try the pre-amp output of the MKIVse with my mini-digital system, to see if that "tube" sound carries through decently. It sure would be interesting to have a T-amp sound more tube like.


----------



## Penchum

Just a reminder that there is a thread for posting night time pics of your tubes glowing!!! Get out your digital cameras and show us how cool your tube glow looks!! Here is the thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/nig...m-here-290757/

 It's lots of fun to look through too!


----------



## oatmeal769

Yeah, when I got interested in using a tube rather than SS amp for 'phones, I had a certain 'sound' in mind. The 8161's come as close to that vision as I can find. I've also found that I generally like the Mullard sound over anything else when playing my bass through tube pre-amps.
 I'd still like to try those Sylvania's everyone likes when I find a good deal on them.


----------



## maltby

I went for the Little Dot MKIII/701 combo recently and after what should be sufficient break in am still looking for a little more out of them. So I ordered up a pair of JHY-6ak5 CBS Hytrons and a pair of 403b's. We shall see. The 6h6n-pi doesn't seem to be readily available, o/w I would have tried that too.

 I am appreciative of all the info to be had here.


----------



## Tridacnid

Hey oatmeal, you mentioned Sylvanias? You want 6AK5s? Found this lot on eBay. 
50 New Old Stock JAN Sylvania 6AK5 Tubes Ham Radio - eBay (item 280235346172 end time Jun-17-08 18:23:16 PDT)


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *maltby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I went for the Little Dot MKIII/701 combo recently and after what should be sufficient break in am still looking for a little more out of them. So I ordered up a pair of JHY-6ak5 CBS Hytrons and a pair of 403b's. We shall see. The 6h6n-pi doesn't seem to be readily available, o/w I would have tried that too.

 I am appreciative of all the info to be had here._

 

What kind of music are you listening to and what more are you looking for maltby? I've got the same combo and it took a while to be really happy with it (I would never part with them now). Under the right conditions, the K701/MkIII combo will blow you away.
 While I always loved the K701s and MkIII, I didn't think they were quite up to the praise received on these boards at times. Sufficient burn-in on the K701s is ridiculous, I'm finally at the point where I think they live up to their reputation after about 4-5 months of use! I had given them a couple hundred hours of pink noise (in hindsight I should've used white noise), but what really opened them up is racking up hours of honest use with music.


----------



## maltby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What kind of music are you listening to and what more are you looking for maltby? I've got the same combo and it took a while to be really happy with it (I would never part with them now). Under the right conditions, the K701/MkIII combo will blow you away.
 While I always loved the K701s and MkIII, I didn't think they were quite up to the praise received on these boards at times. Sufficient burn-in on the K701s is ridiculous, I'm finally at the point where I think they live up to their reputation after about 4-5 months of use! I had given them a couple hundred hours of pink noise (in hindsight I should've used white noise), but what really opened them up is racking up hours of honest use with music._

 

I have no idea if it is the amp or the headphones, but rolling tubes seems easier and less expensive then modding the headpones. Things that I have listened to over and over again now are Sinatra at the Sands, Bill Evans Live at the Village Vanguard, Van Morrison Live at the Grand Opera House Belfast. Things I am still looking for is snap and weight to percussion. Low notes on the piano are also unconvincing.Placement of things spatially is not quite there for me. When the singer is front and center the sound stage is scrunched up and narrow. And when the soundstage is wide, the singer seems too far away. I feel the need to play it too loud. There is still a scratchiness to some things, especially the things that are kind of scratchy anyway, like the saxaphone on Kind of Blue.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tridacnid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey oatmeal, you mentioned Sylvanias? You want 6AK5s? Found this lot on eBay. 
50 New Old Stock JAN Sylvania 6AK5 Tubes Ham Radio - eBay (item 280235346172 end time Jun-17-08 18:23:16 PDT)_

 

I have sent a message to the seller, asking if they are black plates with round halo getters. We'll see what he responds with.

 If they are, maybe one of you folks without funding issues (currently) could pick them up and sell cheap to LD owners?? Just an idea.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tridacnid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey oatmeal, you mentioned Sylvanias? You want 6AK5s? Found this lot on eBay. 
50 New Old Stock JAN Sylvania 6AK5 Tubes Ham Radio - eBay (item 280235346172 end time Jun-17-08 18:23:16 PDT)_

 

Holy smokes!! Thanks!


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have sent a message to the seller, asking if they are black plates with round halo getters. We'll see what he responds with.

 If they are, maybe one of you folks without funding issues (currently) could pick them up and sell cheap to LD owners?? Just an idea. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wouldn't mind fronting some or all of the $, I have an excellent eBay account and PayPal. I just wouldn't be able to do the selling, etc. as I'm living in a hotel for the next 9 months... 
 What if I buy and you distribute pench? I'll split any profit (if any) made as a service charge for labor and such.


----------



## Henmyr

Shouldn't the "black plate, round getter" sylvanias be 6AK5W? Is the 6AK5 and 6AK5W essentially the same, but "-W" only a little improved over non-"-W"?


----------



## Tridacnid

I'd chip in.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't mind fronting some or all of the $, I have an excellent eBay account and PayPal. I just wouldn't be able to do the selling, etc. as I'm living in a hotel for the next 9 months... 
 What if I buy and you distribute pench? I'll split any profit (if any) made as a service charge for labor and such._

 

Sorry, it would have to be someone else. I'm just too disabled to deal with the distribution end of things. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the confidence though!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully, they are the right ones. I'll post his reply as soon as I get it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shouldn't the "black plate, round getter" sylvanias be 6AK5W? Is the 6AK5 and 6AK5W essentially the same, but "-W" only a little improved over non-"-W"?_

 

Nope. They made two flavors of the same tube. One is the JAN 5654W and the other is the 6AK5W. As far as we know, they are identical in sound quality, approaching the level of the 5654GB Gold Sylvania's.

 Sylvania also made the same models with grey plates and square getters. They are good, but not nearly as good as the black plate round getters.


----------



## Tridacnid

I don't think I could distribute either.


----------



## karn1911

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya, not to worry though. They bench test all unit prior to shipping, so tubes that are "flaky" upon arrival, are due to handling during shipping. If you email DavidZ and tell him what tube is bad, he will send you out a replacement. They have been very good about this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For a power tube without the resistor mod, you would be looking for a pair of 6H6N-PI tubes. Usually, someone from Russia is selling them on eBay in lots of 8 or 10, for a nice price. The -PI will look like a backwards "N". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

David said tubes are not covered at all by warranty so no replacements.
 Thanks for the info about the power tubes, went ahead and bought some from that Ukrainian. 

 Sank a few dimes into some 6ZH1P-EV. What sort of sound should I be expecting from these?

 Kind of curious about the 5654W's too. Might wait til the Russians come first.


----------



## Tridacnid

Any updates Penchum?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have sent a message to the seller, asking if they are black plates with round halo getters. We'll see what he responds with.

 If they are, maybe one of you folks without funding issues (currently) could pick them up and sell cheap to LD owners?? Just an idea. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tridacnid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any updates Penchum?_

 

Here is what I got for a reply:

 Dear penchum,

 The plates are black, but the halos are square. Does it make a difference?
 - ziggy7

 Now I don't know what to think! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess there are even more models out there?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *karn1911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_David said tubes are not covered at all by warranty so no replacements.
 Thanks for the info about the power tubes, went ahead and bought some from that Ukrainian. 

 Sank a few dimes into some 6ZH1P-EV. What sort of sound should I be expecting from these?

 Kind of curious about the 5654W's too. Might wait til the Russians come first._

 







Did he know the tube was FOA?

 Here is the warranty on tubes, right from their site:
 "Vacuum tubes are guaranteed not to DOA or fail within a three month time period after purchase. No additional warranty applies to vacuum tubes either sold by or included as stock through Little Dot."


----------



## bernado

Another thumbs up from me on EF92s. I'm using a E-mu 0404 sound card and HD650s. With the stock tubes I had to EQ both the bass and treble down. Not anymore. Very nice sound and certainly the best £7 I can recall spending for a long time.


----------



## Skylab

***Cough***: I have one last pair of NOS USA EF92's for sale in the accessories forum


----------



## oatmeal769

Some Sylvania Gold Pins here... Pretty pricey though.

6AK5 5654 SYLVANIA GB GOLD PIN MATCHING SET EF95 - eBay


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some Sylvania Gold Pins here... Pretty pricey though.

6AK5 5654 SYLVANIA GB GOLD PIN MATCHING SET EF95 - eBay_

 

Indeed. We may never be able to get away from that price point though. The "Golds" started as a "rare" tube and have become even harder to find now. I really do like the pair I got from Yen Audio on eBay.

 If someone was thinking they might try a pair later, I would suggest making the purchase at the earliest possible time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If for some reason, they didn't like them (this would be hard to believe), I'm pretty sure they could sell them and easily break close to even. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't consider them to be just another "high priced tube", but more like an investment. Once you hear a pair, you may never change EF95 tubes again. I suppose that might actually save some folks money in the long run.


----------



## Tridacnid

So the other Sylvanias weren't any good, huh? That's too bad.


----------



## nolla

I have today received my brand new LD MK III amp! Personally I think that this was a very nice choice for my first amp and I can't wait to see it's full potential and start rolling tubes. With the amp I also ordered a pair of M8100 driver tubes for $20 which I consider pretty fair. David said they were MKIV(SE?) stock, so I think they're worhtwhile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But unfortunately the other power tube had devacuumed itself during transport and now I have only channel because I wasn't clever enough to buy also an extra set of POWER tubes. Feh.. I've already e-mailed David about it and naturally this a matter of warranty but it also means another week (optimistically) of waiting. But it got me wondering that what are the compatible power tubes for LD MK III? After a quick search on ebay I found no 6H6N tubes. Or if you know a european site that sells them, even better. The shipping limitations/costs from the US are often ridiculous.


----------



## Tridacnid

That's too bad. Hope you get your tube soon!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tridacnid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the other Sylvanias weren't any good, huh? That's too bad._

 

Ya, it's a strange combination. They could sound just fine and we wouldn't know it. I don't think anyone is going to take a chance on a huge lot.


----------



## dr dougie

Help!

 Can anyone post the pinout for the front volume switch?

 I finally did the 120 ohm resistor mod. 2 of the volume knob solder joints broke while I was fiddling with it which was fortuitous as maybe the easiest way to get the circuit board far enough out to reach the resistors is to wiggle it out the back. So I scribbled down the pinout, desoldered the other 2 and promptly lost the pinout. If anyone else does this I highly recommend taking the volume knob off the front panel or pulling the plug out in the first place!


----------



## karn1911

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nolla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have today received my brand new LD MK III amp! Personally I think that this was a very nice choice for my first amp and I can't wait to see it's full potential and start rolling tubes. With the amp I also ordered a pair of M8100 driver tubes for $20 which I consider pretty fair. David said they were MKIV(SE?) stock, so I think they're worhtwhile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But unfortunately the other power tube had devacuumed itself during transport and now I have only channel because I wasn't clever enough to buy also an extra set of POWER tubes. Feh.. I've already e-mailed David about it and naturally this a matter of warranty but it also means another week (optimistically) of waiting. But it got me wondering that what are the compatible power tubes for LD MK III? After a quick search on ebay I found no 6H6N tubes. Or if you know a european site that sells them, even better. The shipping limitations/costs from the US are often ridiculous._

 

Just bought some 6N6P-I's from Ukraine. Didn't cost too much, about $2.5 per tube. Might want to look into those, I've been told they're better than stock tubes.


----------



## nolla

And where in particular did you buy your power tubes from? Got an url or e-bay seller name/shop to share? The price sounds very good indeed.

 As I was e-mailing David about the broken tube I also asked an offer of another pair of power tubes. He said that he had only the stock 6H6N's with $20 a pair + their share of the total shipping costs (he ships the replacement for no charge). He sure is a business man.. It kinda bothers me to invest that much in tubes at the moment when I should be minding other things such as cables, CDP and new headphones and I haven't been even able to test my amp yet!! Still, I don't want to end in this situation any time in the near future again so I definetily need a spare set of both tubes.

 EDIT: Are 6H6N, 6N6P, 6N6P-I, 6H6PI, ECC99 and EC128 all the same tube? And are all these suitable with LD MK III? So that I don't need any mods, jumpers etc.?


----------



## corigan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nolla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And where in particular did you buy your power tubes from? Got an url or e-bay seller name/shop to share? The price sounds very good indeed.

 EDIT: Are 6H6N, 6N6P, 6N6P-I, 6H6PI, ECC99 and EC128 all the same tube? And are all these suitable with LD MK III? So that I don't need any mods, jumpers etc.?_

 

I just got 4 in from the seller 'mycomponent' on ebay. I was able to purchase 4 NOS 6H6N from them for about $23.50 shipped, but from the looks of it right now they only have 8 count bundles for sale -- so you may want to PM them if those are too many.

 I just rolled them in this morning and I noticed a respectable difference in the lower frequencies right off the bat -- but who knows if they'll change any more over the next several days.

 As far as the tube compatibility, I asked David about what was usable with the mkIII and he replied with :

 "Regarding the power tubes, the 6H30 type tubes used in the MK IV and SE are not compatible, nor are the E182CC or ECC99. The 6H6PI is the same as the 6H6n and 6H6nN, which are a bit different than the 6N6P."

 ...so I *hope* that helps you, but it left me more confused than before I messaged him. I can confirm that the 6H6N's work in mine though, good luck on tracking down a set for your amp.


----------



## nolla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *corigan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...so I *hope* that helps you, but it left me more confused than before I messaged him. I can confirm that the 6H6N's work in mine though, good luck on tracking down a set for your amp._

 

Thanks a lot for the friendly advice! I had already been looking at a set of 8 6N6P-I's but those are equivalent with the ECC99 and not compatible with the amp.. I think I may have to pull the trigger with David's offer for now so that I can get the operation of the amp secured. I can always buy more those power tubes later. Just after a quick peek I could find no 6H6N or 6H6PI from ebay.. Have to say though that this buy-your-own tubes thing isn't as easy as I originally thought. You just can't go to your local hifi-store and buy a pair.


----------



## corigan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nolla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks a lot for the friendly advice! I had already been looking at a set of 8 6N6P-I's but those are equivalent with the ECC99 and not compatible with the amp.. I think I may have to pull the trigger with David's offer for now so that I can get the operation of the amp secured. I can always buy more those power tubes later. Just after a quick peek I could find no 6H6N or 6H6PI from ebay.. Have to say though that this buy-your-own tubes thing isn't as easy as I originally thought. You just can't go to your local hifi-store and buy a pair. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, like I said, take those listings with a grain of salt. The tubes I purchased from mycomponent were listed as ECC99 EC128 as well in the auction listing, but the tubes themselves were marked 6H6N. They worked perfectly (if not better than stock, the jury is still out on that) -- so those would probably be a safe bet. Feel free to PM me if you need a direct link to his ebay store.


----------



## nolla

Oh, I found the store alright, I just didn't figure I should also check the actual item pics! You were right, there are 6H6N printed on the tubes. 8 pieces is a bit too many for me though. I'll probably wait and/or PM them about it. 
 So these re the "same" tubes you bought? How long did the shipping take? And how was the packing?


----------



## ciphercomplete

I have some short thoughts on my 4 sets of tubes that someone might find helpful.

6ZH1P-EV - (aka VOSHOD 6J1P-EV) These are my favorites. Great instrument separation and detail. Tight bass. Nice airy sound without sacrificing weight and depth. They have performed great with any pair of cans that I have thrown at them from Grados to Senns. They are the perfect all arounder. They are at their best with Rock, Funk, Jazz and rap and get thumbs up from me for Soul, R&B, Country and classical. 

Tung Sol/National 403B - These would be my favorites if I had a better source. (I have a new DAC on the way). My current set up is just my MKIII plugged a mid level soundcard. The Tung Sols ruthlessly expose my source for what it is and everything sounds compressed, dark and there is a distinct lack of instrument separation and detail. However, they sound awesome with my standalone CD player which is by no means Hi-Fi. I am anxiously waiting to hear these tubes with my new Zero DAC followed shortly by a discrete opamp. They have a very silky sultry sound that still marries quite well with my K-501s despite showing the obvious shortcomings of my setup. However, I am still a bit underwhelmed at how they sound with Sennhieser cans as they lack "air" and sound too full. I am hoping that a discrete opamp will give them some much needed breathing space.

Mullard 8161 - Awesome. These babies and the HD-580s must be soulmates. I cannot really describe how great this pairing is. This pairing handles everything I throw at it. Excellent detail and separation. 

 They are a tad too airy though which is great for darker Senns like the HD580s or my old pair of DR150s but with cans like Grados, Open Air Audio Technicas, and the airier AKG offerings the music lacks weight. They sound ok with the DT 880s but the sibilance was cranked up to fatiguing levels. With the K-501s the music virtually floats away from your ear. Thus I rarely keep them in because my favorite cans are the k-501s. They will probably fill in more with a better source but I don't expect their overall character to change much. A better DAC will more than likely make them more airy, depending on what opamps you use of course.

 These are probably THE choice for all Sennheiser cans and probably the K-601s (I have heard these are darker and more rolled off than the 501s and 701s). 

Mullard 6AM6 - My least favorite by a wide margin. They don't sound bad and I used to be quite high on them but the more I have compared them to other tubes the more I dislike them. They are thin sounding offering less air than the Mullard 8161s but at the same time offering less musical weight and fullness. I prefer them slightly to the stock tubes but that isn't saying much.


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have some short thoughts on my 4 sets of tubes that someone might find helpful.

6ZH1P-EV - (aka VOSHOD 6J1P-EV) These are my favorites. Great instrument separation and detail. Tight bass. Nice airy sound without sacrificing weight and depth. They have performed great with any pair of cans that I have thrown at them from Grados to Senns. They are the perfect all arounder. They are at their best with Rock, Funk, Jazz and rap and get thumbs up from me for Soul, R&B, Country and classical. 

Tung Sol/National 403B - These would be my favorites if I had a better source. (I have a new DAC on the way). My current set up is just my MKIII plugged a mid level soundcard. The Tung Sols ruthlessly expose my source for what it is and everything sounds compressed, dark and there is a distinct lack of instrument separation and detail. However, they sound awesome with my standalone CD player which is by no means Hi-Fi. I am anxiously awaiting to hear these tubes with my new Zero DAC followed shortly by a discrete opamp. They have a very silky sultry sound that still marries quite well with my K-501s despite showing the obvious shortcomings of my setup. However, I am still a bit underwhelmed at how they sound with Sennhieser cans as they lack "air" and sound too full. I am hoping that a discrete opamp will give them some much needed breathing space.

Mullard 8161 - Awesome. These babies and the HD-580s must be soulmates. I cannot really describe how great this pairing is. This pairing handles everything I throw at it. Excellent detail and separation. 

 They are a tad too airy though which is great for darker Senns like the HD580s or my old pair of DR150s but with cans like Grados, Open Air Audio Technicas, and the airier AKG offerings the music lacks weight. They sound ok with the DT 880s but the semblance was cranked up to fatiguing levels. With the K-501s the music virtually floats away from your ear. Thus I rarely keep them in because my favorite cans are the k-501s. They will probably fill in more with a better source but I don't expect their overall character to change much. A better DAC will more than likely make them more airy, depending on what opamps you use of course.

 These are probably THE choice for all Sennheiser cans and probably the K-601s (I have heard these are darker and more rolled off than the 501s and 701s). 

Mullard 6AM6 - My least favorite by a wide margin. They don't sound bad and I used to be quite high on them but the more I have compared them to other tubes the more I dislike them. They are thin sounding offering less air than the Mullard 8161s but at the same time offering less musical weight and fullness. I prefer them slightly to the stock tubes but that isn't saying much._

 

These are Driver tubes correct? - so there is no need to change the LDIII's settings.


----------



## corigan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nolla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, I found the store alright, I just didn't figure I should also check the actual item pics! You were right, there are 6H6N printed on the tubes. 8 pieces is a bit too many for me though. I'll probably wait and/or PM them about it. 
 So these re the "same" tubes you bought? How long did the shipping take? And how was the packing?_

 

Those are the exact same tubes I received. I'm in the US, so shipping took a little longer than I think it will for you, but it was postmarked on the 5th and I received it on the 15th. They were well packaged, individually wrapped in foam and then set in a thick cardboard box. Overkill in my opinion, but I'm not going to complain since they made it A-OK. If they end up getting in any other tubes that I can use with my amp I'd do business with them again.


----------



## nolla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *corigan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those are the exact same tubes I received. I'm in the US, so shipping took a little longer than I think it will for you, but it was postmarked on the 5th and I received it on the 15th. They were well packaged, individually wrapped in foam and then set in a thick cardboard box. Overkill in my opinion, but I'm not going to complain since they made it A-OK. If they end up getting in any other tubes that I can use with my amp I'd do business with them again._

 

Heh, maybe I'm being careless now, but I placed a bid on 10 new 6H6Pi tubes for $19,99 + $12 shipping. If I win those I think I won't have to buy a single power tube for the rest of my life. The seller isn't the same, but he has done over 700 tube deals with 100% reliability. I also read earlier in this thread that the 6H6P*i* should be "better". I'll go and see.. I have to mind those driver tubes some day as well


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These are Driver tubes correct? - so there is no need to change the LDIII's settings._

 

Both pairs of Mullards can only be used in EF92 mode so you have to put the jumper pins on. The other two pairs are EF95 tubes so there is no need to put jumpers on.


----------



## Weez

I’ve just recently got a few Russian NOS tubes (6Zh1P-EV, made by Voskhod radio factory) and I’m really enjoying them, listening to Opeth at the moment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great tubes! So now that I got my driver tubes what power tubes should I look for to pair with the 6Zh1P-EVs? It has probably been mentioned in this thread, but I’m really tired after a 4-day lan party


----------



## maltby

Just got my Hytrons and WE 403Bs. Popped in the Hytrons, gave them an hour of music and then took a listen. Nice. The spatial confusion I was having is gone now. Much better imaging. 

 I will be listening to these for awhile before I bother trying the 403b.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Weez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I’ve just recently got a few Russian NOS tubes (6Zh1P-EV, made by Voskhod radio factory) and I’m really enjoying them, listening to Opeth at the moment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great tubes! So now that I got my driver tubes what power tubes should I look for to pair with the 6Zh1P-EVs? It has probably been mentioned in this thread, but I’m really tired after a 4-day lan party 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 The all Russian line up is killer for Metal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *maltby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my Hytrons and WE 403Bs. Popped in the Hytrons, gave them an hour of music and then took a listen. Nice. The spatial confusion I was having is gone now. Much better imaging. 

 I will be listening to these for awhile before I bother trying the 403b._

 

Yep, I've got some old Hytrons and they are nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't forget, both of those tubes will improve with time under their belts. Usually about 45-55 hours, so things go "uphill" from here.


----------



## shamu144

Hi all,

 I have just bought some EF95 family Sylvania tube for my LDMKIII, on Ebay Sylvania 6AK5/5654 black plate square getter...

 Do you have any ideas how these will compare to the black plate / round halo getter, or even the gold ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It was not too expensive so I just though of giving it a try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for feedback if you have any,


----------



## Weez

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The all Russian line up is killer for Metal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Can you be a bit more specific about the “all Russian line up”? I’m new to the tube jungle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or do you mean that I shouldn’t change the stock power tubes because they make little difference? Or are there some Russian power tubes that I don’t know off?


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Weez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you be a bit more specific about the “all Russian line up”? I’m new to the tube jungle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or do you mean that I shouldn’t change the stock power tubes because they make little difference? Or are there some Russian power tubes that I don’t know off?_

 

The stock power tubes are "russians" so you just need to add the Russian 6J1P-EV (6ZH1P-EV) driver tubes.


----------



## Weez

Thought so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Btw, got a weird tube with the 6Zh1P-EVs, 3C18P (I think). Any info on that tube? Btw2, what does NOS mean?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shamu144* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,

 I have just bought some EF95 family Sylvania tube for my LDMKIII, on Ebay Sylvania 6AK5/5654 black plate square getter...

 Do you have any ideas how these will compare to the black plate / round halo getter, or even the gold ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It was not too expensive so I just though of giving it a try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for feedback if you have any,_

 

I think you'll be the guinea pig (first). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It would be nice to know what you think of them.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Weez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thought so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Btw, got a weird tube with the 6Zh1P-EVs, 3C18P (I think). Any info on that tube? Btw2, what does NOS mean? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

New Old Stock = NOS

 Made a long time ago, but are still new (unused).


----------



## Tridacnid

Also to add, in general NOS tubes are thought of as better than new production tubes, due to most NOS tubes being made in the "golden age" of tubes.


----------



## Weez

Ok, thanks


----------



## windrider

anyone here uses hd600s with these? can someone recommend me some good sounding tubes for use with the hd600s?


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone here uses hd600s with these? can someone recommend me some good sounding tubes for use with the hd600s?_

 

Can't go wrong with a pair of Mullard 8161. The "Russians" aren't bad either.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't go wrong with a pair of Mullard 8161. The "Russians" aren't bad either._

 

The Mullard M8161's are definitely one of the best EF92 tubes around, for a slightly 'harder' sound the UE EF92's are pretty good as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - DoA


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone here uses hd600s with these? can someone recommend me some good sounding tubes for use with the hd600s?_

 

Any driver tubes that work great for the HD-650, will also work great for the HD-600. I've verified this many of times now, so you have a bunch of tubes to pick from. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Russians (6ZH1P-EV) are a must have (fun for everyone), several of the EF92 flavors are a moral imperative (M8161, 6CQ6) and several of the Sylvania's (5654/6AK5 black plates, round getters) will rock your boat, if you can find them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Amperex EF92 Bugle Boys, if you can fine them, are a real treat. I still get goose bumps every time I listen to them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't gone with any 403B's yet, so someone else will have to chime in on those.


----------



## Tridacnid

I really liked my Western Electric 403A/ 6AK5's while they were burning in. In fact, at about the 8 hour mark, I put on my headphones and listened to my favorite band (Screaming Trees. Grunge), and about three tracks in I put down my book and listened for a second and my jaw dropped. The mids were amazing. Anyways, I kept burning them in, and now the mids are less emphasized, and I'm bummed.

 Love my Mullard EF92's, though.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tridacnid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really liked my Western Electric 403A/ 6AK5's while they were burning in. In fact, at about the 8 hour mark, I put on my headphones and listened to my favorite band (Screaming Trees. Grunge), and about three tracks in I put down my book and listened for a second and my jaw dropped. The mids were amazing. Anyways, I kept burning them in, and now the mids are less emphasized, and I'm bummed.

 Love my Mullard EF92's, though._

 

I've had some 6AK5's do the same thing too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The GE Mobile Radio 5654's are pretty good and pop up on eBay sometimes. Much better than the regular GE's.


----------



## falang

Just received a pair of matched Mullard M8100 NOS earlier today. Threw them into the MKIV and was instantly impressed by the immediate improvement in bass quality on my AudioEngine A2s over the stock tubes (with no tube burn in of course). My feet are vibrating! I love these A2s! Wish I had the space for the A5s.

 Oddly, I haven't really detected the improvement in bass on my ATH A900s yet. One thing for certain is that I much prefer my A2s over my A900s. 

 I think its time for a closed can upgrade in the next few months.


----------



## oatmeal769

My sentiments exactly. The 8161's are my favorite so far, followed by the Russians I got from Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any driver tubes that work great for the HD-650, will also work great for the HD-600. I've verified this many of times now, so you have a bunch of tubes to pick from. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Russians (6ZH1P-EV) are a must have (fun for everyone), several of the EF92 flavors are a moral imperative (M8161, 6CQ6) and several of the Sylvania's (5654/6AK5 black plates, round getters) will rock your boat, if you can find them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Amperex EF92 Bugle Boys, if you can fine them, are a real treat. I still get goose bumps every time I listen to them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't gone with any 403B's yet, so someone else will have to chime in on those. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Tung Sol 403B's are very good. They have a strong, refined quality of bass with a hint of sparkle in the high end. Add the rare Amperex PQ E95F to that list of stellar tubes Pench mentions as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Tridacnid

E95F?


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tridacnid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_E95F?_

 

What I've heard they are HEAVEN. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But now to some serious business. I ordered RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE from a seller, who has 100% positive feedback. Or actually I lost the auction but got a second chance offer from the seller, and I bought it. I paid it on Jun-06-08. Well I waited for a week, nothing. After the week I sent email to the seller, no response. After that I sent him message thru ebay, no response. karkas4 is his ebay account. With that amount of positive feedbacks I really was sure that no one could be cheated or anything. Well I was wrong. eBay My World - karkas4 here's straight link to his ebay site.

 So if anyone have ordered from that seller, who had what he ordered, I'd be glad to hear it. Because I am quite sure I am not getting what I ordered. And if karkas4 is reading this thread, please contact me. It is not a big amount of money, but I just can't stand these kind of deals.

 Peace out.


----------



## sinisterm

And now something that actually fits to this thread:

 Russian 6ZH1P-EV.

 At first they sounded like heaven. After burn-in of ~50 hours. They became kinda harsh sounded. Don't know if that it was of placebo effect wearing of, or actually the tubes changing sound, but really after the first hours, I really can't say I enjoy these tubes as I enjoyd them at first.

 Even so. I can say these beat the stock tubes by far on every aspect. And still I think everyone should get a pair, cause they are so bloody cheap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now after a LONG break, I had time to listen to my homesystem of Magnat Quantum 503, with Audiopro B136 subwoofer. Tho the signal doesn't go thru Beresford to the hometheater amplifier, but still. I can say that, I can't even imagine stereo system/surround system that could even get close to anything that headphones give. I was kinda sure, sure, before, but now I am so sure. I kinda really hate to listen music thru those Magnats (even they are a respected brand and compared to many, many, expensive, ones). Only thing I am missing is the bass output that my subwoofer gives, but I kinda know it is a deal with 325i's bass output. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dunno even if this belongs to this thread. But I am at the moment so happy of my headphone-set that I must tell it to you.

 E: if someone wants to know more about differences, tell me and Ill write. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peace out.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So if anyone have ordered from that seller, who had what he ordered, I'd be glad to hear it. Because I am quite sure I am not getting what I ordered. And if karkas4 is reading this thread, please contact me. It is not a big amount of money, but I just can't stand these kind of deals.

 Peace out._

 

I ordered the same tubes about a month ago and they arrived within about 10 days....I had no problems with this seller...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tridacnid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_E95F?_

 

That's what I said when I found them. The designation means mil spec. The Tubes I bought are PQ (premium quality) E95F Amperex. They sound amazing but are hard as hell to find. If you ever see a pair for sale they are worth it,provided they are good to go and tested.

 I'm still gob smacked by the SQ of these tubes. Got 2 pair for 18 bucks, they test 120% to boot. I don't think the guy knew what he had. It was a massive tube store,50 pages of tubes to sift through to find these buried treasures.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My sentiments exactly. The 8161's are my favorite so far, followed by the Russians I got from Peete._

 

Those Russian tubes are fantastic for Metal eh oatmeal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have a hard time yanking them out when it comes time for a change of pace..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I have a fairly dumb question........when using the MKIII as a preamp (to my main rigs amps) do I have to have the headphones socket occupied with the HD650's ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I don't know why I haven't asked this question sooner.....nothing about this in the manual.

 Peete.


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what I said when I found them. The designation means mil spec. The Tubes I bought are PQ (premium quality) E95F Amperex. They sound amazing but are hard as hell to find. If you ever see a pair for sale they are worth it,provided they are good to go and tested.

 I'm still gob smacked by the SQ of these tubes. Got 2 pair for 18 bucks, they test 120% to boot. I don't think the guy knew what he had. It was a massive tube store,50 pages of tubes to sift through to find these buried treasures.

 Peete._

 

Dang....I tried getting ahold of those right after you 1st mentioned them & the guy had only 1 single tube left 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds like they're worth continuing to (im)patiently keep looking for though.

 I recently got a pr of the Amperex Bugle Boys from Skylab....I thought I was having a nice little love affair with the 8161s, but for the moment she's been kicked to the curb
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! I'll report back with some more detailed impressions after they've had a chance to burn in a little, but for now....silky smooth across the entire freq range & respond so well to every type of music I've thrown at them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yep, they're perma-grin material!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dang....I tried getting ahold of those right after you 1st mentioned them & the guy had only 1 single tube left 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds like they're worth continuing to (im)patiently keep looking for though.

 I recently got a pr of the Amperex Bugle Boys from Skylab....I thought I was having a nice little love affair with the 8161s, but for the moment she's been kicked to the curb
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! I'll report back with some more detailed impressions after they've had a chance to burn in a little, but for now....silky smooth across the entire freq range & respond so well to every type of music I've thrown at them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yep, they're perma-grin material!_

 


 Aren't they kick arse tubes though. I haven't found anything negative to say about the SQ of these. They love every genre of music. I keep looking for more so I can give you guys a heads up...so far nada...bupkiss.......I search about once a week for them.

 I've got just about 50 hours on the first pair of PQ's so they are giving me a thrill big time....they sounded great from the get go which was a bonus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not sure what the diff is between the PQ and bugle boys are, most likely same build (large heavy duty D getter with small gray plates) just tighter tolerances on the PQ's for the military. 

 Peete.


----------



## Project22a

Ok, I'm about ready to buy a set of Mullard 8161's and I don't know where to buy them from.

 I've found two sellers on ebay

Mullard M8161 / CV4015 Mil. Spec. Little Dot Amp EF92 - eBay (item 280238281182 end time Jun-26-08 22:14:03 PDT)

 and

EF92 6CQ6 M8161 CV4015 Mullard Tube Matched Quads - eBay (item 170211927692 end time Jul-18-08 10:54:30 PDT)

 The first link is for a pair and the second is for a quad. What's throwing me off is that they're selling for almost the same price. I was about ready to buy the quad set until I noticed that in the pictures, the stamping appears to be a bit different between the two sellers. Does one "stamping" indicate a better tube than the other? Which one do I buy!?


----------



## falang

Has anyone made a list of compatible power tubes for the MK Line? I'm sure it can be found somewhere in this thread but it is much too long to search for it at this point. I have an MKIV. Does this accept the same power tubes as the lower mk models? 

 I came across this list for driver tubes:

*MK DRIVER TUBES
 EF92 Compatibles: EF92, CV131, M8161, CV4015, 6065, 6CQ6, W77, 9D6

 EF95 Compatibles: EF95, 5654, 6AK5, 6ZH1P-EV, 6J1, M8100, 403B, 5591, CV5216, CV8246, 6069, CV4010, CV10442, CV10100, CV8159, CV8225, CV850*

 Back to power tubes:

 6H30Pi-EH Electro Harmonix -> Are these considered the top of line? Does anyone have any other recommendations? I need to find a back up pair so I might as well try for the best and use the stocks as my back ups.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those Russian tubes are fantastic for Metal eh oatmeal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a hard time yanking them out when it comes time for a change of pace..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Yep, they're a great contrast to the 8161's!

 DEFINITELY let me know if you see any of those bugle-boys...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a fairly dumb question........when using the MKIII as a preamp (to my main rigs amps) do I have to have the headphones socket occupied with the HD650's ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I don't know why I haven't asked this question sooner.....nothing about this in the manual.

 Peete._

 

Nope. You can just have the amp sitting there looking fine all by itself.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Project22a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I'm about ready to buy a set of Mullard 8161's and I don't know where to buy them from.

 I've found two sellers on ebay

Mullard M8161 / CV4015 Mil. Spec. Little Dot Amp EF92 - eBay (item 280238281182 end time Jun-26-08 22:14:03 PDT)

 and

EF92 6CQ6 M8161 CV4015 Mullard Tube Matched Quads - eBay (item 170211927692 end time Jul-18-08 10:54:30 PDT)

 The first link is for a pair and the second is for a quad. What's throwing me off is that they're selling for almost the same price. I was about ready to buy the quad set until I noticed that in the pictures, the stamping appears to be a bit different between the two sellers. Does one "stamping" indicate a better tube than the other? Which one do I buy!?_

 

There are differences of opinion on this topic, but the majority feel that the "full sized" Mullard Shield ones, sound better. Some of the 1/2 shield models were exports or OEM types.

 The ones that Yen sells (pair) are the full shield ones. The other advantage is that Yen is testing and matching them, and he backs up what he sells.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dang....I tried getting ahold of those right after you 1st mentioned them & the guy had only 1 single tube left 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds like they're worth continuing to (im)patiently keep looking for though.

 I recently got a pr of the Amperex Bugle Boys from Skylab....I thought I was having a nice little love affair with the 8161s, but for the moment she's been kicked to the curb
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! I'll report back with some more detailed impressions after they've had a chance to burn in a little, but for now....silky smooth across the entire freq range & respond so well to every type of music I've thrown at them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yep, they're perma-grin material!_

 

Dantztiludrop! Hey, haven't seen you around for a while! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those "Bugle Boys" are something else! They are indeed hard to find, but when you do....tube rolling slows to dead stop! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very much the premium tube! Keepers for sure.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope. You can just have the amp sitting there looking fine all by itself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Pench,

 Tomorrow the MK III squares off against the MC-7R (fed by the Zero to main rig) in the final chapter of the mini-review Part II 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *falang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone made a list of compatible power tubes for the MK Line? I'm sure it can be found somewhere in this thread but it is much too long to search for it at this point. I have an MKIV. Does this accept the same power tubes as the lower mk models? 

 I came across this list for driver tubes:

*MK DRIVER TUBES
 EF92 Compatibles: EF92, CV131, M8161, CV4015, 6065, 6CQ6, W77, 9D6

 EF95 Compatibles: EF95, 5654, 6AK5, 6ZH1P-EV, 6J1, M8100, 403B, 5591, CV5216, CV8246, 6069, CV4010, CV10442, CV10100, CV8159, CV8225, CV850*

 Back to power tubes:

 6H30Pi-EH Electro Harmonix -> Are these considered the top of line? Does anyone have any other recommendations? I need to find a back up pair so I might as well try for the best and use the stocks as my back ups._

 

There are NOS DR versions of the 6H30Pi but the cost is astronomical (Pench has a pair) @ 200 US per pair IIRC. The EH golds are the best you can do in that type without busting the bank (too much) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, they're a great contrast to the 8161's!

 DEFINITELY let me know if you see any of those bugle-boys..._

 

To clarify what I'm talking about and what D is talking about are tw0 different tubes from the same family (I would imagine). One is PQ E95F (white chalk plain label no bugle boy logo) and the other, are EF95 bugle boys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll keep looking ...as soon as I find some I'll post a link...then it's first come first serve from the vendor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS I'll keep out of it since I have 2 pairs and don't need a third set for some time to come, if the famous longevity of these PQ variants is to be believed. They are built like tanks I must say, very thick getter and solid glass envelopes. Quite a bit heavier than the stock GE's.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Heres a link for a pair (I think)

ISO Components - Inventory Search Results - Free Locator Service and Stocking Distributor For Electronic Components and Electrical Parts



 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heres a link for a pair (I think)

ISO Components - Inventory Search Results - Free Locator Service and Stocking Distributor For Electronic Components and Electrical Parts



 Peete._

 

Yes, those should be like yours PP.

 A lot of people have never seen a real "Bugle Boy" tube. For those who haven't, it has a little cartoon "tube boy" dancing on there, blowing his bugle. It's very cute to look at, even more startling to listen too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Both the PQ's and Bugle Boys have excellent sound quality and are built to last. I know for sure the Bugle Boys are made specifically for audio and I believe the PQ's are as well. PQ meaning Premium Quality.

 Both of these types are from back in the day when Amperex was "Audio" in a big way. Their tubes are kind of like the Sylvania's, in that, I have never heard a bad one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wouldn't hesitate to buy a PQ if that is all that can be found. When the Bugle Boys show up, they don't last very long at all, maybe 1/2 hour or so if BIN is there.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Project22a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The first link is for a pair and the second is for a quad. What's throwing me off is that they're selling for almost the same price. I was about ready to buy the quad set until I noticed that in the pictures, the stamping appears to be a bit different between the two sellers. Does one "stamping" indicate a better tube than the other? Which one do I buy!?_

 

Like Penchum already mentioned, the shielded M8161 is the better sounding tube, also a matched pair will give you a more realistic soundstage, sometimes these NOS tubes can drift quite a bit in the few decades since they're made and I've had a few experiences with unmatched NOS tubes collapsing the soundstage. Anyway, these M-series tubes will last 5000+ hours, so I wouldn't worry about them burning out and needing a spare pair handy, you won't need 'em. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - DoA


----------



## falang

Thanks for the info gents.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *falang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone made a list of compatible power tubes for the MK Line? *I have an MKIV*. Does this accept the same power tubes as the lower mk models? 

 Back to power tubes:

 6H30Pi-EH Electro Harmonix -> Are these considered the top of line? Does anyone have any other recommendations? I need to find a back up pair so I might as well try for the best and use the stocks as my back ups._

 

Hi falang!

 The power tube issue catches everyone off guard sometimes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The MKIV comes stock with the 6H30PI-NOS version and the MKIVse comes with the 6H30PI-EH Golds. The golds are considered the better tubes as far as sound quality goes. The NOS's are nothing to sneeze at either, so they would make a great back-up set. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do have the (completely insane to purchase) 6H30PI-DR's and they are truly the top of the line in SQ. It's the price that makes them nuts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To clarify, the MKII and MKIII use the 6N6P and 6N6P-PI power tubes. In order for these two models to use the better 6H30PI family of tubes, they must have the resistor mod done first.


----------



## falang

Penchum,

 Thanks! Whoever invented tube nomenclature must of intended it to be confusing. Or, perhaps my brain needs an upgrade. Despite that fact, I think I got it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *falang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum,

 Thanks! Whoever invented tube nomenclature must of intended it to be confusing. Or, perhaps my brain needs an upgrade. Despite that fact, I think I got it._

 

Ow ya, the numbering schemes alone will give your brain some drain!


----------



## shamu144

Hello,

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shamu144* 
I have just bought some EF95 family Sylvania tube for my LDMKIII, on Ebay Sylvania 6AK5/5654 black plate square getter...

 

I think you'll be the guinea pig (first). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It would be nice to know what you think of them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have just received them. Excellent transaction BTW. They don't have 3 hours of use, so please, allow me some more time before giving any serious impressions (my first tube roll)...
 As a general comment, I find it difficult to assess tubes quality without possibility of A/B compairing them, since you need to let the amp running off for a long time before rolling tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, right out of their (very old) box, I can definitely say with no doubt that these tubes are more detailed than the stock ones (stock ones have only aprox 50 hours on them). I am using some CD test recordings, and I can now clearly ear inaudible/muffled details with stock tubes. As for extension, I haven't noticed anything really different yet. As for soundstage, I would say a better individual separation of instruments, but at the same time, slightly narrower soundstage. I believe this tubes have still to burn in and open up, and improvement should be more apparent after 40/50 hours...

 Anyway, it looks very interesting, though the LD MKIII sound has not dramatically changed after this tube swap. How much a change on global sound do you expect from tube rolling, between stock tubes and the best tubes available... Is the LD MKIII becoming an entirely different animal, or are improvements noticeable but minor.

 Thank you for your answers,


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shamu144* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 I have just received them. Excellent transaction BTW. They don't have 3 hours of use, so please, allow me some more time before giving any serious impressions (my first tube roll)...
 As a general comment, I find it difficult to assess tubes quality without possibility of A/B compairing them, since you need to let the amp running off for a long time before rolling tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, right out of their (very old) box, I can definitely say with no doubt that these tubes are more detailed than the stock ones (stock ones have only aprox 50 hours on them). I am using some CD test recordings, and I can now clearly ear inaudible/muffled details with stock tubes. As for extension, I haven't noticed anything really different yet. As for soundstage, I would say a better individual separation of instruments, but at the same time, slightly narrower soundstage. I believe this tubes have still to burn in and open up, and improvement should be more apparent after 40/50 hours...

 Anyway, it looks very interesting, though the LD MKIII sound has not dramatically changed after this tube swap. How much a change on global sound do you expect from tube rolling, between stock tubes and the best tubes available... Is the LD MKIII becoming an entirely different animal, or are improvements noticeable but minor.

 Thank you for your answers,_

 

It is like you said, each tube will be different in "total" impact, but you can't really tell that until they are done "maturing". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hang in there!!


----------



## gilency

Which tubes would be best for the DT880's?
 I listen to Classical, Jazz and some Rock: just bought the 6Zh1P-EV's. Did not want to spend much money at first. Hope I like them.
 And, how do you change the jumper switches? Never mind. I found them. A little to deep but txs to some of your ideas: I will try the hemostats.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which tubes would be best for the DT880's?
 I listen to Classical, Jazz and some Rock: just bought the 6Zh1P-EV's. Did not want to spend much money at first. Hope I like them.
 And, how do you change the jumper switches? Never mind. I found them. A little to deep but txs to some of your ideas: I will try the hemostats._

 

I love the GE JAN 5654W for jazz actually, there's something magical about those tubes with jazz music... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - DoA


----------



## GSRFliege

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which tubes would be best for the DT880's?
 I listen to Classical, Jazz and some Rock: just bought the 6Zh1P-EV's. Did not want to spend much money at first. Hope I like them._

 

The best tube for DT880 are quite clearly 6ZH1P EV, 6J1P EV (6Ж1П-ЕВ) This will be definitely your preferential tube.


----------



## ScottieB

Whew - just finished reading the entire thread! Thanks all for all the great info! My MKIII is just about a week old and I'm already itching to get to some tube rolling. I'm going to wait a while, although I immdiately replaced the stock tubes with M8161s and will do my inital break-in with those. I've got about 30 hours on them so far and things already sound GREAT! I can't wait to see what happens.

 Perhaps the single greatest tip I got was the ebay search string posted a while back - got an email this morning and it shows some sylvanias - are these the ones everyone (particularly penchum) are raving about? 4 NOS Sylvania JAN 6AK5/5654/EF95/6J1 Vacuum Tubes NIB - eBay (item 130234494819 end time Jul-05-08 03:24:39 PDT)

 It seems like these things are getting more expensive (and likely harder to find) as we talk more about them... so maybe I should grab some now for later use if they're the "right" ones?

 Anyway so far absolutely love my amp. My Grados seem less "edgy" and more under control, and my Beyer DT250s have never sounded so good. (of course now I'm itching to pick upsome Senn HD600s...) Even played some Team Fortress 2 and the echo on indoor levels had me turning around and looking behind me! So cool! Thanks again for all the great info...

 S.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whew - just finished reading the entire thread! Thanks all for all the great info! My MKIII is just about a week old and I'm already itching to get to some tube rolling. I'm going to wait a while, although I immdiately replaced the stock tubes with M8161s and will do my inital break-in with those. I've got about 30 hours on them so far and things already sound GREAT! I can't wait to see what happens.

 Perhaps the single greatest tip I got was the ebay search string posted a while back - got an email this morning and it shows some sylvanias - are these the ones everyone (particularly penchum) are raving about? 4 NOS Sylvania JAN 6AK5/5654/EF95/6J1 Vacuum Tubes NIB - eBay (item 130234494819 end time Jul-05-08 03:24:39 PDT)

 It seems like these things are getting more expensive (and likely harder to find) as we talk more about them... so maybe I should grab some now for later use if they're the "right" ones?

 Anyway so far absolutely love my amp. My Grados seem less "edgy" and more under control, and my Beyer DT250s have never sounded so good. (of course now I'm itching to pick upsome Senn HD600s...) Even played some Team Fortress 2 and the echo on indoor levels had me turning around and looking behind me! So cool! Thanks again for all the great info...

 S._

 

SB,

 It's great to hear your MKIII is doing well, and you too of course. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tubes, tubes the musical fruit, the more you buy, the more you ....... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Obviously ready for a holiday!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Sylvania's you linked too are the black plate, square getter type. We don't know yet whether or not they have the same SQ as the black plate, round halo getter versions. shamu144 took a set of 4 for the team, and he's burning them in now. He'll let us know what he thinks pretty soon.

 Up until this point, all 5654/6AK5 models we have run into that are Sylvania, regardless of age, that have the black plates and round halo getters, have a superior SQ to them. So, the hunt is on and the search continues. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 6ZH1P-EV Russian tubes are a "must have" for almost everyone. They are super special.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Project22a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I'm about ready to buy a set of Mullard 8161's and I don't know where to buy them from.

 I've found two sellers on ebay

Mullard M8161 / CV4015 Mil. Spec. Little Dot Amp EF92 - eBay (item 280238281182 end time Jun-26-08 22:14:03 PDT)

 and

EF92 6CQ6 M8161 CV4015 Mullard Tube Matched Quads - eBay (item 170211927692 end time Jul-18-08 10:54:30 PDT)

 The first link is for a pair and the second is for a quad. What's throwing me off is that they're selling for almost the same price. I was about ready to buy the quad set until I noticed that in the pictures, the stamping appears to be a bit different between the two sellers. Does one "stamping" indicate a better tube than the other? Which one do I buy!?_

 

I have both pairs. Both sound great with my Sennheisers and my Goldrings but the small shield version lacks "musical weight" when I use them with my AKG k501s, the notes seem to have too much float to them and are too light. The large shield version does not have this problem. Although I sometimes prefer the added airiness of the small shields when I listen to my Goldrings and Senns.

 Right now the only tubes I need are the Mullard 8161 large shield and the Russian 6ZH1P-EV.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have both pairs. Both sound great with my Sennheisers and my Goldrings but the small shield version lacks "musical weight" when I use them with my AKG k501s, the notes seem to have too much float to them and are too light. The large shield version does not have this problem. Although I sometimes prefer the added airiness of the small shields when I listen to my Goldrings and Senns.

 Right now the only tubes I need are the Mullard 8161 large shield and the Russian 6ZH1P-EV._

 

I much prefer the shielded Mullard M8161 ones with my HD650 and MS2i actually.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Up until this point, all 5654/6AK5 models we have run into that are Sylvania, regardless of age, that have the black plates and round halo getters, have a superior SQ to them. So, the hunt is on and the search continues. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 6ZH1P-EV Russian tubes are a "must have" for almost everyone. They are super special. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I actually picked up (what I think are) the 'russians' - the title of the auction said "VOSHOD mil-spec 6ZH1P-EV / 6AK5 NOS" is that them? Haven't tried them yet, still in initial burn-in. Is there any sort of guide I can read about the general differences between the various tube families (ie EF92/EF95)? I'm learning a lot but a simple general guide about the various families and their similarities/differences would be an interesting read I think.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi ScottieB,

 This thread is loaded with all the info you desire and then some......time to start reading...at least it's only 108 pages 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Hey Peete,

 I assure you, I did read the entire thread (took me several weeks though, so maybe my retention isn't so great)! Maybe I missed it, but I'm really looking for a basic guide to the tube families compatible with the LD MKIII - like the general differences between EF92/EF95 etc. Also, and more specifically, I'm looking to see if the tubes I bought are indeed the "russians" everyone is talking about... I quoted above, but here it is again "VOSHOD mil-spec 6ZH1P-EV / 6AK5 NOS". Thanks again for all your contributions - I'm really having a lot of fun with this amp!


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
_ I quoted above, but here it is again "VOSHOD mil-spec 6ZH1P-EV / 6AK5 NOS". Thanks again for all your contributions - I'm really having a lot of fun with this amp!_

 

These from Yen Audio are definitely the right ones.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These from Yen Audio are definitely the right ones._

 

Thanks, DOA - those are the ones I grabbed (from Yen)! Sweeeet... after a few more hours on my M8161s I will try these.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Peete,

 I assure you, I did read the entire thread (took me several weeks though, so maybe my retention isn't so great)! Maybe I missed it, but I'm really looking for a basic guide to the tube families compatible with the LD MKIII - like the general differences between EF92/EF95 etc. Also, and more specifically, I'm looking to see if the tubes I bought are indeed the "russians" everyone is talking about... I quoted above, but here it is again "VOSHOD mil-spec 6ZH1P-EV / 6AK5 NOS". Thanks again for all your contributions - I'm really having a lot of fun with this amp!_

 

Yup those are in fact the ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mine are made in Novosibirsk factory. Voshod are quite good. They are a really dynamic,clean, well behaved tube from top to bottom. Perfect "Rock/Metal" tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The little dot forum has more info....have you been yet ?

 All you really need to know is EF92 and EF95...then look for all the naming conventions of those types. There are lots of cross reference guides only a google stop away 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## dgbiker1

I just stumbled on a new source for 6AK5, EF95, and EF92 tubes while I was looking for an enclosure for my new project
Tubes & Accessories
 Pretty cheap, our tubes look to run $2.50-$5.00 for raytheons, hollands, sylvanias, etc...


----------



## NikZ

I have a very very noob question.

 How do you remove a tube on MK III? Do I just pull it out straight?
 I'm very new to this and the tubes look very fragile. I fear that they might break if I use too much force.


----------



## JimSmiley

Pull while rocking it back and forth a bit..not too much, just a little wiggle.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NikZ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a very very noob question.

 How do you remove a tube on MK III? Do I just pull it out straight?
 I'm very new to this and the tubes look very fragile. I fear that they might break if I use too much force._

 

Just pull while rocking back and forth, you won't break the tubes they're quite sturdy. One thing to watch out for is if you're inserting older tubes some of their pins might be bent and the bent pins might damage the sockets on the amp, so you would want to gently straighten the pins before inserting them.

 Note it is very easy to damage a tube by bending its pins so it's possible to break a tube by doing this if you don't have the right tools.

 - DoA


----------



## JimSmiley

Just got the GE 5 Star 5654s rolled in. Watch out CV131 there is new kid in town, and he is definitely a contender. Impressions later..


----------



## dr dougie

Hey all,

 Been listening to my LD III with DT880s awhile and thought I'd throw out my experiences.

 First off, I did the 120 ohm mod. It's not *quite* as bad as some describe if you pull the board out the back. I kind of discovered this messing around but my method saves you having to deal with the transformer wires! 1) Remove front plate and disconnect harness to volume pot. 2) Remove top screws (not transformer) and back plate. 3) Wiggle the board forward enough to remove 2 front posts for top screws from the board. 4) Wiggle the board out the back slowly and carefully. I used a butter knife to gently push wires around as I did this. You'll be able to get the necessary resistors at least 1" from the housing, this is enough to desolder and remove them, and put in the 120 Ohm ones with tweezers. I used 1 watt with no additional solder. Remember that this voids the warranty. The soldering is easy compared to getting the board in position!

 So further impressions are with 120 Ohm cathode resistors.

 The reason to do this is to replace the stock 6H6N-Pi with 6H30Pi tubes. See Penchum's LD III review for more. Note that the Mk IV and IVse have 120 ohm cathode resistors and 6H30Pi power tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wound up getting the electro-harmonix Gold 6H30Pi tubes, as the Mk IVse has. I will say right away that the difference with the stock tubes is subtle but the 6H30Pi are cleaner and more refined all around. They improve everything top to bottom with all my driver tubes and have made my LD III into a keeper from a "maybe". They get *hot*.

 I did use the stock tubes with 120 ohm cathode resistors before the 6H30Pi's arrived. Little Dot does not recommend this and says they may make the LD III unstable but I had no problems with many hours of listening. As far as I could tell the resistor mod did not affect the sound of the stock tubes.

 I previously mentioned that I tried 6CG7's as power tubes also. My first generic GE 6CG7s sounded bad, they got hot and I worried about the heater current being too high. I eventually got a batch of used Motorola 6CG7 and they turned out to be RCA black plates - nice! I have also now run these for many hours with the 120 ohm resistors and they sound very good. I like the forward treble of the big Russian tubes better so far but would definitely try more 6CG7s. I attached a photo of my LD III with the Motorola black plate 6CG7s and Sylvania black plate, halo getter 6AK5 for the heck of it. Hard to tell but it's on!

 For driver tubes my top 3 so far are:

 1) Ediswan CV138/6AM6/EF91 from audiowrx on ebay. These have the best vocals and midrange of anything I've heard so far. Despite bass being a hair loose and high treble a teensy weak I find I keep going back to these. I don't know why more people don't try them - especially for lighter, vocal and classical music.

 2) Sylvania 6AK5, black plate, halo getter. Great all around tube.

 3) Mullard EF92/M8161/CV4015. These are definitely up there but I feel the Sylvania's do everything these can do just a little bit better.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr dougie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all,

 Been listening to my LD III with DT880s awhile and thought I'd throw out my experiences.

 First off, I did the 120 ohm mod. It's not *quite* as bad as some describe if you pull the board out the back. I kind of discovered this messing around but my method saves you having to deal with the transformer wires! 1) Remove front plate and disconnect harness to volume pot. 2) Remove top screws (not transformer) and back plate. 3) Wiggle the board forward enough to remove 2 front posts for top screws from the board. 4) Wiggle the board out the back slowly and carefully. I used a butter knife to gently push wires around as I did this. You'll be able to get the necessary resistors at least 1" from the housing, this is enough to desolder and remove them, and put in the 120 Ohm ones with tweezers. I used 1 watt with no additional solder. Remember that this voids the warranty. The soldering is easy compared to getting the board in position!

 So further impressions are with 120 Ohm cathode resistors.

 The reason to do this is to replace the stock 6H6N-Pi with 6H30Pi tubes. See Penchum's LD III review for more. Note that the Mk IV and IVse have 120 ohm cathode resistors and 6H30Pi power tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wound up getting the electro-harmonix Gold 6H30Pi tubes, as the Mk IVse has. I will say right away that the difference with the stock tubes is subtle but the 6H30Pi are cleaner and more refined all around. They improve everything top to bottom with all my driver tubes and have made my LD III into a keeper from a "maybe". They get *hot*.

 I did use the stock tubes with 120 ohm cathode resistors before the 6H30Pi's arrived. Little Dot does not recommend this and says they may make the LD III unstable but I had no problems with many hours of listening. As far as I could tell the resistor mod did not affect the sound of the stock tubes.

 I previously mentioned that I tried 6CG7's as power tubes also. My first generic GE 6CG7s sounded bad, they got hot and I worried about the heater current being too high. I eventually got a batch of used Motorola 6CG7 and they turned out to be RCA black plates - nice! I have also now run these for many hours with the 120 ohm resistors and they sound very good. I like the forward treble of the big Russian tubes better so far but would definitely try more 6CG7s. I attached a photo of my LD III with the Motorola black plate 6CG7s and Sylvania black plate, halo getter 6AK5 for the heck of it. Hard to tell but it's on!

 For driver tubes my top 3 so far are:

 1) Ediswan CV138/6AM6/EF91 from audiowrx on ebay. These have the best vocals and midrange of anything I've heard so far. Despite bass being a hair loose and high treble a teensy weak I find I keep going back to these. I don't know why more people don't try them - especially for lighter, vocal and classical music.

 2) Sylvania 6AK5, black plate, halo getter. Great all around tube.

 3) Mullard EF92/M8161/CV4015. These are definitely up there but I feel the Sylvania's do everything these can do just a little bit better._

 

Great mini-review! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well done!
 I agree that the 6H30Pi are cleaner and more refined all around. My driver tube properties "improved" as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I had to put a percentage on the improvement, I'd say somewhere between 10-15% overall.

 One thing I did notice was that the lower end improvement made a few of my driver tubes much more likable. As an example, the Mullard M8161's. They have nice bass when matched with the stock power tubes, but now have a more refined and powerful bass when matched with the 6H30PI power tubes! This was an unexpected benefit, especially for the driver tubes that were slightly lacking in bass. They now present a much more "full spectrum" signature, which I really like!!


----------



## nolla

In addition to my stock 5654's and the M8100's I bought from David, I just pulled the trigger on a pair of Sylvania 6AK5's. The price was so tempting and the seller had such a reliable feedback that I didn't really think much at the moment I clicked 'buy'..
 Afterwards I began to wonder if I have just bought a pair of junk. How good are these tubes according to these test results? Are they even close of being 'matched'? The numbers don't tell me much. I paid a ridiculous 6€ including shipping (approx. $9 USD) of them, so at least it won't eat up my wallet..

 valve 1 Ia = 13.5 mA & Gm = 6.0 mA/V
 valve 2 Ia = 12.5 mA & Gm = 5.8 mA/V


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nolla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In addition to my stock 5654's and the M8100's I bought from David, I just pulled the trigger on a pair of Sylvania 6AK5's. The price was so tempting and the seller had such a reliable feedback that I didn't really think much at the moment I clicked 'buy'..
 Afterwards I began to wonder if I have just bought a pair of junk. How good are these tubes according to these test results? Are they even close of being 'matched'? The numbers don't tell me much. I paid a ridiculous 6€ including shipping (approx. $9 USD) of them, so at least it won't eat up my wallet..

 valve 1 Ia = 13.5 mA & Gm = 6.0 mA/V
 valve 2 Ia = 12.5 mA & Gm = 5.8 mA/V_

 

Looks like they're about 8% off from each other, it's not the worst I've seen but they may not be putting the 1% resistors in your LD amp to their full potential. I'm a fan of matched tubes as in my experience they make a noticeable and significant difference in soundstage and overall 'involvement' of the music, and like everything else in life, you get what you pay for in tubes too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - DoA


----------



## JimSmiley

Is anyone rolling either of these tubes?

 GE JAN 5654W
 Sylvania JAN 5654

 I can't decide which to buy. Anyone have any impressions or opinions? They look almost identical. Both have black plates and halo getters with green labeling.

 TIA


----------



## nolla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like they're about 8% off from each other, it's not the worst I've seen but they may not be putting the 1% resistors in your LD amp to their full potential. I'm a fan of matched tubes as in my experience they make a noticeable and significant difference in soundstage and overall 'involvement' of the music, and like everything else in life, you get what you pay for in tubes too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - DoA_

 

Thanks for the info DoA! But aren't they fairly good then? I remember reading that the borderline for a matched pair was 5%? I'd presume that 3% more don't make a HUGE difference? 

 Although based on what I've experienced listening with and without the amp itself and with stock/M8100 tubes the differences truly aren't THAT amazing. I'm more looking forward to buying a new pair of headphones and see what kind of difference they make. But then again this is probably what head-fi is, even the smallest differences count. Difficult to say when you see me shopping myself to death @ yenaudio!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr dougie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all,

 Been listening to my LD III with DT880s awhile and thought I'd throw out my experiences.

 First off, I did the 120 ohm mod. It's not *quite* as bad as some describe if you pull the board out the back. I kind of discovered this messing around but my method saves you having to deal with the transformer wires! 1) Remove front plate and disconnect harness to volume pot. 2) Remove top screws (not transformer) and back plate. 3) Wiggle the board forward enough to remove 2 front posts for top screws from the board. 4) Wiggle the board out the back slowly and carefully. I used a butter knife to gently push wires around as I did this. You'll be able to get the necessary resistors at least 1" from the housing, this is enough to desolder and remove them, and put in the 120 Ohm ones with tweezers. I used 1 watt with no additional solder. Remember that this voids the warranty. The soldering is easy compared to getting the board in position!

 So further impressions are with 120 Ohm cathode resistors.

 The reason to do this is to replace the stock 6H6N-Pi with 6H30Pi tubes. See Penchum's LD III review for more. Note that the Mk IV and IVse have 120 ohm cathode resistors and 6H30Pi power tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wound up getting the electro-harmonix Gold 6H30Pi tubes, as the Mk IVse has. I will say right away that the difference with the stock tubes is subtle but the 6H30Pi are cleaner and more refined all around. They improve everything top to bottom with all my driver tubes and have made my LD III into a keeper from a "maybe". They get *hot*.

 I did use the stock tubes with 120 ohm cathode resistors before the 6H30Pi's arrived. Little Dot does not recommend this and says they may make the LD III unstable but I had no problems with many hours of listening. As far as I could tell the resistor mod did not affect the sound of the stock tubes.

 I previously mentioned that I tried 6CG7's as power tubes also. My first generic GE 6CG7s sounded bad, they got hot and I worried about the heater current being too high. I eventually got a batch of used Motorola 6CG7 and they turned out to be RCA black plates - nice! I have also now run these for many hours with the 120 ohm resistors and they sound very good. I like the forward treble of the big Russian tubes better so far but would definitely try more 6CG7s. I attached a photo of my LD III with the Motorola black plate 6CG7s and Sylvania black plate, halo getter 6AK5 for the heck of it. Hard to tell but it's on!

 For driver tubes my top 3 so far are:

 1) Ediswan CV138/6AM6/EF91 from audiowrx on ebay. These have the best vocals and midrange of anything I've heard so far. Despite bass being a hair loose and high treble a teensy weak I find I keep going back to these. I don't know why more people don't try them - especially for lighter, vocal and classical music.

 2) Sylvania 6AK5, black plate, halo getter. Great all around tube.

 3) Mullard EF92/M8161/CV4015. These are definitely up there but I feel the Sylvania's do everything these can do just a little bit better._

 

This is just what this Dr ordered 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just got my 120 ohm resistors today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the MK III disassembly/assembly tips and the mini review !!!! Well done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Broke (wore it out actually) my damn desolder tool today though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







, off to Rat shack first thing Monday morning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is anyone rolling either of these tubes?

 GE JAN 5654W
 Sylvania JAN 5654

 I can't decide which to buy. Anyone have any impressions or opinions? They look almost identical. Both have black plates and halo getters with green labeling.

 TIA_

 

I'd say give the Sylvania's a try. So far, they have worked out better for me than the GE's, in an "overall" sense. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 They look to be the same ones I have, which should mean "excellent sound" from them.


----------



## dr dougie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One thing I did notice was that the lower end improvement made a few of my driver tubes much more likable. As an example, the Mullard M8161's._

 

Thanks for the kinds words and 100% agreed here, especially with those Mullards!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is just what this Dr ordered 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just got my 120 ohm resistors today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...

 Broke (wore it out actually) my damn desolder tool today though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







, off to Rat shack first thing Monday morning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Hah and good luck, it's definitely a worthwhile change after you've found driver tubes you like. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Getting the board back in takes awhile too - use the butter knife again!


----------



## JimSmiley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd say give the Sylvania's a try. So far, they have worked out better for me than the GE's, in an "overall" sense. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 They look to be the same ones I have, which should mean "excellent sound" from them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, Penchum. The Sylvanias it is, not the golds, but it's a start.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimSmiley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Penchum. The Sylvanias it is, not the golds, but it's a start._

 

What is really cool, is that they sound extremely close to the "Golds" once they are matured for about 45-50 hours! The differences are so slim, it's almost not worth mentioning.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr dougie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the kinds words and 100% agreed here, especially with those Mullards!



 Hah and good luck, it's definitely a worthwhile change after you've found driver tubes you like. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Getting the board back in takes awhile too - use the butter knife again!_

 


 Thanks Dr !!! The driver tubes I use right now are unreal...Amperex PQ E95F.

 I'm sure the 6H30Pi will add that last ounce of refinement (along with a few teflon bypass caps in the MK III's power supply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) to the MK III.

 I've got the butter knife ready to go, been practicing precision moves with it in my spare time...getting a feel for the balance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Dr !!! The driver tubes I use right now are unreal...Amperex PQ E95F.

 Peete._

 

Where did you find the Amperex PQ's?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you find the Amperex PQ's? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I found them buried on a eBay vendors huge site. Was about 45 pages into various tube types when I stumbled across 2 pairs of E95F's and decided to take a chance on them. Boy am I glad I did. The downside is trying to find more of these types, very rarely have I seen others posted for sale. If you happen across some snap them up....they are fantastic tubes, I love them. They do everything well without emphasis on any particular attribute of the sonic spectrum. Near as I can fathom they have the wonderful bottom end of a great NOS Mullard, the mids and highs of the best mil spec gold label Sylvania round getter black plates and 3D presentation all there own, in their own league as far as that is concerned.

 Peete.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Well I updated my source a couple of weeks ago and the Mullard 8161 has become my favorite set of tubes. They have been in my amp for the past week and a half and I don't plan on removing them any time soon. 

 Furthermore....
 I wrote a awhile back that the 8161s were a bit too airy for my taste when paired with my AKG k501s. Turns out that there are significant differences (at least larger than I imagined) between the small shield Mullard 8161 and the large shield military grade 8161. 

 They have the same sound signature but the large shield is just more authoritative throughout the entire spectrum. Neither pair is my absolute favorite with the k501s, that honor goes to the "russians", but the large shield 8161s are close enough to where I don't feel compelled to switch out tubes everytime I switch headphones.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I updated my source a couple of weeks ago and the Mullard 8161 has become my favorite set of tubes. They have been in my amp for the past week and a half and I don't plan on removing them any time soon. 

 Furthermore....
 I wrote a awhile back that the 8161s were a bit too airy for my taste when paired with my AKG k501s. Turns out that there are significant differences (at least larger than I imagined) between the small shield Mullard 8161 and the large shield military grade 8161. 

 They have the same sound signature but the large shield is just more authoritative throughout the entire spectrum. Neither pair is my absolute favorite with the k501s, that honor goes to the "russians", but the large shield 8161s are close enough to where I don't feel compelled to switch out tubes everytime I switch headphones._

 

Yes, yes indeed! This very topic (the two Mullard types) has been the topic of conversation going back to the LDII++ amps. DoA and I feel the same on this matter (we've talked about it) and many others like you have found out the same thing. There is definitely something superior to the full shield M8161's that is hard to put your finger on. It does exist though, and it's audible for most users. Perhaps it has something to do with the tougher build quality internally. We may never know exactly what it is caused by, but I would still recommend buying the full shield M8161 over the "OEMs" or half shields. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, I'm glad your source improvements have worked out great!


----------



## FigaroFan

Are these (M8161 / 6065) the right Mullard M8161 ones with the large shield?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FigaroFan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are these (M8161 / 6065) the right Mullard M8161 ones with the large shield?_

 

If the item being put up for sale does not specifically say Mullard Large Shield 8161's then I'd say pass on the tubedepot.

 If you read the description carefully it's says various 8161 types, could be re badge OEM, small shield, another brand.....


 Heres a pair of what you want from Yen Audio on eBay

Mullard M8161 / CV4015 Mil. Spec. Little Dot Amp EF92 - (eBay.ca item 270254901960 end time 18-Jul-08 20:06:17 EDT)

 Peete.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, yes indeed! This very topic (the two Mullard types) has been the topic of conversation going back to the LDII++ amps. DoA and I feel the same on this matter (we've talked about it) and many others like you have found out the same thing. There is definitely something superior to the full shield M8161's that is hard to put your finger on. It does exist though, and it's audible for most users. Perhaps it has something to do with the tougher build quality internally. We may never know exactly what it is caused by, but I would still recommend buying the full shield M8161 over the "OEMs" or half shields. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also, I'm glad your source improvements have worked out great! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I had heard about the differences but I just didn't think that they would be that large. I almost didn't try them at all. The only reason I purchased the large shield version was because I thought one of my small shield tubes was going bad (it only had a overlooked and very dirty pin). Needless to say when I got the large shields in I was extremely surprised at the difference. 

 That is not to say the small shields are terrible. I sometimes prefer their more airy presentation with my Senns and Goldrings. And I still prefer them overall to my Tung Sol/Nationals which get no play from me.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the item being put up for sale does not specifically say Mullard Large Shield 8161's then I'd say pass on the tubedepot.

 Heres a pair of what you want from Yen Audio on eBay

Mullard M8161 / CV4015 Mil. Spec. Little Dot Amp EF92 - (eBay.ca item 270254901960 end time 18-Jul-08 20:06:17 EDT)

 Peete._

 

It's also less expensive to get them from Yen Audio since the tubedepot price is for one tube only while the YA price is for a quality matched pair. I got my pair of M8161 from Yen Audio and I couldn't be happier about it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Needless to say when I got the large shields in I was extremely surprised at the difference._

 

Mullard has a somewhat convoluted history having had not a few owners over the years and it's not surprising that tubes from different eras manufactured at different plants would sound significantly different. In the case of the M8161 I think the classic large-shield version sounds like a proper Mullard with its warm and almost seductive sound while the other versions tend to sound colder and harsher.

 - DoA


----------



## Pricklely Peete

True enough DOA, it's getting difficult separating the wheat from the chaff these days with so many generic looking tubes claiming Mullard lineage, some legit, others, bald faced lies....

 For example Japanese made "Mullards" being sold as the real deal,plants licensed and set up by Mullard in foreign countries,some rather obscure in choice but purely economics driven (India for example), in the 50's 60's & 70's to outsource production for their less quality stringent contract obligations. Most of the legit Blackburn and other UK plants production was purely military at one time with some of that earmarked for consumer consumption. IMHO of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## One Fan To Another

I just today received my Sylvania Gold 6AK5 tubes for my MKIII but now I'm wondering:

 What are the other tubes in the amp - the taller tubes? What type are they, what can I replace them with.

 Most importantly what is the best replacement tube of that type that will best compliment the Golds?

 Also, I assume I don't need to change the jumper settings for using these Sylvanias since they are EF95s just like the ones that came with the amp?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *One Fan To Another* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just today received my Sylvania Gold 6AK5 tubes for my MKIII but now I'm wondering:

 What are the other tubes in the amp - the taller tubes? What type are they, what can I replace them with.

 Most importantly what is the best replacement tube of that type that will best compliment the Golds?_

 

The taller tubes are known as power tubes or rectifying tubes, upgrade tubes are Russian 6H6P-I and 6N6P. As with all Russian tubes the vintage and place of manufacture can effect the quality of the sound quite significantly, I'll let others more knowledgeable about these particular tubes to comment on the specifics but generally you should look for 6H6P-I and 6N6P tubes.

 - DoA


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *One Fan To Another* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just today received my Sylvania Gold 6AK5 tubes for my MKIII but now I'm wondering:

 What are the other tubes in the amp - the taller tubes? What type are they, what can I replace them with.

 Most importantly what is the best replacement tube of that type that will best compliment the Golds?

 Also, I assume I don't need to change the jumper settings for using these Sylvanias since they are EF95s just like the ones that came with the amp?_

 

You are right. No jumper changes yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd give those golds about 45-50 hours of maturing, before making any other changes. You may not want to change a thing at that point. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let us know how the golds end up.


----------



## One Fan To Another

^Thanks for the replies. I'll definitely give these tubes a while to burn in then AB then with the other ones I have to see what kind of difference there is.

 The seller of these golds took a while to ship them out so he gave me a couple sets of some other EF95s for free. I'm not sure what brand they are but I'll compare with them as well.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

What to look for when getting some more 6N6P-i or 6N6P, Novosibirsk plant and of 70's vintage. 

 That's it for the power tubes. They are offered in lots of 8 or more at around 20 - 30 US for the lot. Cheap....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Joshatdot

I just got these in the mail, Mullard M8161s. They don't look like other M8161s I've seen here. Are these newer stock? Look at the small shield.


----------



## gilency

I must confess I was a little skeptic regarding tube rolling and sound change. I was wrong! Just received 4 6ZH1P-EV tubes from the Ukraine. They sound brighter and deeper than the stock GE 5654 tubes. They are a little taller too. I love their sound!


----------



## alan_g

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I must confess I was a little skeptic regarding tube rolling and sound change. I was wrong! Just received 4 6ZH1P-EV tubes from the Ukraine. They sound brighter and deeper than the stock GE 5654 tubes. They are a little taller too. I love their sound!_

 

I just bought 4 of these as well for a good price.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joshatdot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got these in the mail, Mullard M8161s. They don't look like other M8161s I've seen here. Are these newer stock? Look at the small shield.



 

_

 

Those are the same small shields that I have. I think they are newer stock or at least a lot newer than the large shield version. They weren't too new though as the pins had significant oxidation.


----------



## alan_g

the second picture of the cv4015 are exactly the same as two i got just a few days ago, said they were new old stock.
 they are for my little dot mkii which i have'nt got yet


----------



## Tridacnid

My power tubes just went kapput, so I need new ones. Anyone have recommendations for a seller on ebay?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

This guy is reliable and honest....I've bought from him before...

RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - eBay (item 260265119138 end time Jul-27-08 09:48:53 PDT)

 Peete.


----------



## Mike_TNT

Alright now, who sniped me on those Tung Sols?








 Fess up.


----------



## alan_g

anyone know of the svetlana c619p?

 i saw a matched pair which the seller said were compatible with little dot amps


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright now, who sniped me on those Tung Sols?







 Fess up.





_

 

I have pairs of National and Sylvania branded T.S. 403 black plates (assuming that's what you were bidding on) that I'd be willing to part with. Let me know if you're interested.


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have pairs of National and Sylvania branded T.S. 403 black plates (assuming that's what you were bidding on) that I'd be willing to part with. Let me know if you're interested._

 

Sweet. I was bidding on 6AK5 TS Auction Link I assume they're not the same. Let me clear my pm box and I'll shoot you one.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alan_g* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone know of the svetlana c619p?

 i saw a matched pair which the seller said were compatible with little dot amps_

 

They are excellent tubes for sure, but they are compatible with the older LDII++ headphone amps only. I think a few DV models use this tube also.

 My wife took my LDII++ and I haven't seen it in months! That's what I get for giving her HD-650's for Xmas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you were looking for an upgrade to the stock 6N6P Chinese power tubes, then find some Russian 6N6P-PI power tubes. They are a big improvement. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The tubes are usually marked 6H6N-N (the last N being backwards
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 Here is an example of them PP found on eBay: RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - eBay (item 260265119138 end time Jul-27-08 09:48:53 PDT)


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alan_g* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone know of the svetlana c619p?

 i saw a matched pair which the seller said were compatible with little dot amps_

 

They're used on the LDII++ and are not compatible with the Mk series amps. For that you'll need the Russian 6H6P-I or Chinese 6N6 equivalents.


----------



## ScottieB

So now that I've had some time for burn-in (and to get a new pair of Senn HD600s!) I have some observations/questions.

 So far I've played with the Mullard M8161's, the "russians" and the stock tubes. By far - like REALLY far - my favorites are the Mullards so far. They just seem to give everything more weight and punch. I like all kinds of music - and even for classical I really like the sound of these tubes. They really feel like I'm in a hall listening. 

 Anyway I noticed that the Mullards don't only sound better, but they LOOK more serious, too. They are considerably larger and more "robust" looking than the other tubes I have. Is this related in any way? Is this because there are EF92s (instead of 95s like the other pairs I have)? And if so, is this a general property of the EF92 family? ARE they more robust? Are they all larger than their EF95 counterparts? 

 Oh - and I saw these on ebay - why so expensive ($60!)? Are they super rare or something?
http://cgi.ebay.com/PHILIPS-by-MULLA...3286.m14.l1318

 Anyway, I really love this amp - now I'm just waiting on my Zero DAC and then I'll be in head-fi heaven... at least until the bug bites me (and my poor wallet) again!

 S


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So now that I've had some time for burn-in (and to get a new pair of Senn HD600s!) I have some observations/questions.

 So far I've played with the Mullard M8161's, the "russians" and the stock tubes. By far - like REALLY far - my favorites are the Mullards so far. They just seem to give everything more weight and punch. I like all kinds of music - and even for classical I really like the sound of these tubes. They really feel like I'm in a hall listening. 

 Anyway I noticed that the Mullards don't only sound better, but they LOOK more serious, too. They are considerably larger and more "robust" looking than the other tubes I have. Is this related in any way? Is this because there are EF92s (instead of 95s like the other pairs I have)? And if so, is this a general property of the EF92 family? ARE they more robust? Are they all larger than their EF95 counterparts? 

 Oh - and I saw these on ebay - why so expensive ($60!)? Are they super rare or something?
PHILIPS by MULLARD 6AK5 EF95 MATCHED PAIR NOS YAQIN 6J1 - eBay (item 360072058735 end time Jul-26-08 04:18:25 PDT)

 Anyway, I really love this amp - now I'm just waiting on my Zero DAC and then I'll be in head-fi heaven... at least until the bug bites me (and my poor wallet) again!

 S_

 

Those miniwatts look like rebranded M8100's with lop-sided getter. I'd go with a pair of M8100 if you're thinking about those.

 If you think the EF92 looks impressive wait until you try the EF91 family of tubes, they are even bigger than EF92 and have much more intricate internal structures, also good examples have blue side getter that makes them look really cool. The reason that the EF92 is substantially larger than the EF95 is because they draw and dissipate more current (200mA for EF92 versus 175mA for EF95) and therefore need a longer filament as well as other support structures. And you're right, the Mullard M8161 is one of my favorite tubes.

 - DoA


----------



## One Fan To Another

Hey, does the MKIII need modding to use 6H30Pi tubes? I plan to buy a pair of 6H30Pi-EH golds but I'm not sure if they are directly replaceable.

 Also, I was looking around (searching) at MKIII mods. Can someone link me a helpful page talking about MKIII mods?

 Lastly: I planned to try the Sylvania 6AK5 Golds (which I currently have) and some set of Mullard 8161s. Does anyone know if there's enough of a difference between the two to bother spending the money to try out the Mullard's? Or is that something I'm just going to have to try for myself to see?


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *One Fan To Another* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, does the MKIII need modding to use 6H30Pi tubes? I plan to buy a pair of 6H30Pi-EH golds but I'm not sure if they are directly replaceable.

 Also, I was looking around (searching) at MKIII mods. Can someone link me a helpful page talking about MKIII mods?

 Lastly: I planned to try the Sylvania 6AK5 Golds (which I currently have) and some set of Mullard 8161s. Does anyone know if there's enough of a difference between the two to bother spending the money to try out the Mullard's? Or is that something I'm just going to have to try for myself to see?_

 

There's a section in this thread talking about a resistor mod you need to perform on the MKIII to use the 6H30Pi tubes.


----------



## ScottieB

OK, so I'm looking for ONE more good tube - and my priority for the sound is "detail" - i want a high-detail tube if I can find one. 

 I've got my eyes on the GE five-star and also on United Electron EF92 (mostly just because my EF92 M8161s are my favorites so far)... but am open to any suggestions... I have read the thread, but thought I'd ask as it can be quite hard to find the specific info!!!

 Thanks,
 S


----------



## Pricklely Peete

ScottieB try looking for Telefunken 6AK5 or similar, detail kings...

 Peete.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ScottieB try looking for Telefunken 6AK5 or similar, detail kings...

 Peete._

 

Tung-Sol's are quite good too.


----------



## ScottieB

Thanks for the suggestions! So are those recommended before the ones I mentioned? I only ask because I *thought* I remembered someone saying that the 5-stars were pretty wonderful for detail, too - but of course I could be mistaken (and of course there's a set on ebay - if a bit pricey).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The Tele's and TS 403B are really great tubes...I haven't heard to much about the 5 Stars...they might be really good...who knows for sure....I do have both the Telefunken 6AK5 and Tung Sol 403B though.....they are very good at details, the TS has a little better bass and mids while the Tele's are neutral from top to bottom....

 Peete.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Mullard CV131 / 6CQ6 VS Mullard 8161.

 Does anyone have both? Can I get a comparison of the two? I already have a pair of 8161s.


----------



## Penchum

Has anyone tried the EF95 labeled Mullards yet? They are not the M8100's.
 I would sure like to know if they sound decent or not. Here is a listing of them on eBay right now: Quad Mullard EF95 6AK5 5654 CV4010 CV850 NOS NIB MINT - eBay (item 130242806472 end time Aug-05-08 16:16:39 PDT)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mullard CV131 / 6CQ6 VS Mullard 8161.

 Does anyone have both? Can I get a comparison of the two? I already have a pair of 8161s._

 

Hey Cipher,

 I have both, but it has been so long since I compared the two, I'm not sure I can properly tell you the difference. I just put my M8161's back in my MKIVse for this morning, and I'll listen to the 6CQ6's this afternoon.


----------



## ScottieB

Heh so many choices! So right now there is an auction (from yen) for the GE Mobile Radio 6ak5s (for $36 plus shipping) and the GE 5-stars (for $48 plus shipping) and also some tung sols (a Mil Spec 6028 EF95 for $26, and a 6AK5W for $48). This stuff seems pricey - is it? It isn't THAT much if I'm getting the right tube for me (detail! heh) but I don't want to buy the *wrong* one you know? Anyway thanks so much for all the help - I'm having far too much fun with all of this... guess we're never too old for toys (they just get more complicated and expensive!) haha


----------



## esirex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the suggestions! So are those recommended before the ones I mentioned? I only ask because I *thought* I remembered someone saying that the 5-stars were pretty wonderful for detail, too - but of course I could be mistaken (and of course there's a set on ebay - if a bit pricey)._

 


 Tung-Sol 6AK5W 5654 give this pair a shot....nice detail and depth. However they need couple of hours of burning in. Dont expect wonders straight from the box...these tubes need burning in.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And another worth listening the VOSHOD mil-spec 6ZH1P-EV / 6AK5


----------



## alan_g

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *esirex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tung-Sol 6AK5W 5654 give this pair a shot....nice detail and depth. However they need couple of hours of burning in. Dont expect wonders straight from the box...these tubes need burning in.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And another worth listening the VOSHOD mil-spec 6ZH1P-EV / 6AK5_

 

those voshod are a good set of tubes,and you can pay very little for them.


----------



## esirex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alan_g* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_those voshod are a good set of tubes,and you can pay very little for them._

 

x2


----------



## alan_g

i paid around 8 uk pounds for 4...


----------



## ScottieB

I already have the 6ZH1p_EVs, but thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really looking for the best detail for my $$ at this point. So far the tung sols are topping the list...

 So what I have so far is the stocks, the Mullard M8161 and the VOSHOD 6ZH1p-EV. Looking for one more set. Thanks again!


----------



## esirex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I already have the 6ZH1p_EVs, but thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really looking for the best detail for my $$ at this point. So far the tung sols are topping the list...

 So what I have so far is the stocks, the Mullard M8161 and the VOSHOD 6ZH1p-EV. Looking for one more set. Thanks again!_

 

Go for the Tung-sol if you are looking for details....Sounds really good on my MS2i and ER4s.


----------



## Ttvetjanu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the EF95 labeled Mullards yet? They are not the M8100's.
 I would sure like to know if they sound decent or not. Here is a listing of them on eBay right now: Quad Mullard EF95 6AK5 5654 CV4010 CV850 NOS NIB MINT - eBay (item 130242806472 end time Aug-05-08 16:16:39 PDT)_

 

I have. Sound good though the only thing i can compare with is the stock tubes. More analytical and detailed sound, although not sure if it is better, the stock tubes being warmer, bassier and more musical.

 I've been attempting to read this thread through, however I have failed. Penchum, which tubes would you recommend for the MKIII? (bang for the buck), you seem to have tried a huge amount of them.

 One of my EF95 Mullards broke down giving a constant low-volume hissing sound so now I am stuck with the stocks (which might not be a bad thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## Wichita

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mullard CV131 / 6CQ6 VS Mullard 8161.

 Does anyone have both? Can I get a comparison of the two? I already have a pair of 8161s._

 

Well I do. Frankly they are very close to one another. Maybe the 8161 are a tad more on the warm side, the bass is slightly "rounder". Mids are exactly the same, lush and with just the right amount of details for me, highs slightly recessed compared to more detailed tubes. You can't go wrong with either of them, if you ask me.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ttvetjanu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have. Sound good though the only thing i can compare with is the stock tubes. More analytical and detailed sound, although not sure if it is better, the stock tubes being warmer, bassier and more musical.

 I've been attempting to read this thread through, however I have failed. Penchum, which tubes would you recommend for the MKIII? (bang for the buck), you seem to have tried a huge amount of them.

 One of my EF95 Mullards broke down giving a constant low-volume hissing sound so now I am stuck with the stocks (which might not be a bad thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 

Hey T,

 With the MKIII, there is a whole bunch of nice sounding tubes! As some of you have found out, the tubes that were built for broadcast/station use, all have a nice presentation to them, like GE 5 stars. Some think they are too bright, which can be true depending on the phones being used. I have a very short list of tubes I consider worthy of the bucks, so here it is in order:

 Sylvania GB5654 (Gold Brand 1970s Note: Very expensive)
 Sylvania 5654/6AK5 (Black plates & Round halo getters only)
 GE Mobile Radio 5654/6AK5 (The secret weapon tubes)
 Tong Sol 5654/6AK5 (Pre-1960, WWII preferred)

 Looking at this list, the Gold Brands are so expensive, don't bother unless you have cash to burn. The other Sylvania's are "Highly sought after" and seem difficult to find, however, they are worth the trouble and generally cheap when you find them. The GE mobiles can be found on eBay in 5 packs pretty cheap. The Tong Sols come up about every two weeks and are very nice.

 EF92's are still a favorite, but you'll find that Mullard made these for most companies, so some real bargains can be found. I have a set of Haltrons from the UK, that look just like Mullards and sound like Mullards, which cost $8 for the pair! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The all around "best" EF92, would be the Amperex EF92 Bugle Boys. If you can find a pair, they are worth your effort.

 I also wanted to mention burn-in and NOS tubes. Out of all the tubes I have tried that were NOS, ALL of them have taken at least 45 hours to mature. If you have some that don't have this many hours on them yet, do it. Many will change substantially in the last few hours of the 45. Many folks (myself included) have rated a tube too early and didn't give them a fair chance. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope this helps some. There are more, but they are more about taste than general presence. Have a good one!


----------



## ScottieB

Hey Penchum - don't know if you saw my posts the last few days, but I've been curious about the GE Mobile (and 5-star) and tung sols - really I've been looking for great detail tubes, and the tung sols have been recommended for that, but I've been curious about the GEs - can you tell more about them (why are they the secret weapon?). Thanks,

 S


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Penchum - don't know if you saw my posts the last few days, but I've been curious about the GE Mobile (and 5-star) and tung sols - really I've been looking for great detail tubes, and the tung sols have been recommended for that, but I've been curious about the GEs - can you tell more about them (why are they the secret weapon?). Thanks,

 S_

 

Mostly because they are inexpensive (usually) and they have a better sound than the 5 stars (IMHO). They take a while to mature, I suppose because they are built to take a beating. They could easily become the "everyday" tube for a lot of people. If you can get some cheap (like a 5 pack) check them out. The Tung Sol's are definitely detail tubes. They don't sacrifice anything. They are a very well rounded tube and this makes them very popular. See if you can get either or both, at a decent price. You'll have a bunch of fun with them.


----------



## ScottieB

Thanks for that - but what's a decent price? I've seen the Tung Sols on ebay for like $48 plus shipping for a matched pair (from Yen whose stuff has been top notch for me) - but that seems a bit pricey... have also seem the mobiles for $26 plus shipping...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that - but what's a decent price? I've seen the Tung Sols on ebay for like $48 plus shipping for a matched pair (from Yen whose stuff has been top notch for me) - but that seems a bit pricey... have also seem the mobiles for $26 plus shipping..._

 

Look around on eBay. Set your thoughts on $8 a tube and see if you can find some near that. Most of the time, you can find some over a period of like 2 weeks. The Tung Sols might require you to pay the higher cost. It all depends on availability. Good luck!!


----------



## ScottieB

So is that suggesting it isn't necessary to buy a matched pair? Like keep looking and even buy 1 at a time if necessary?


----------



## hendry

how about power tube 6H6P-I in here 
6H6P-I Little Dot Amp Power Tube Upgrade 6N6 MATCHED PR - eBay (item 270260008680 end time Aug-03-08 23:41:37 PDT)

 this tube can be directly substituted without mod to MK III ? how about the sound ? any different with stock tube ? thanks


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look around on eBay. Set your thoughts on $8 a tube and see if you can find some near that. Most of the time, you can find some over a period of like 2 weeks. The Tung Sols might require you to pay the higher cost. It all depends on availability. Good luck!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Very good advice. If you are not in a hurry Ebay can be quite inexpensive for buying tubes. A month ago I managed to pick up 4 Telefunken and 4 Tung Sols 6ak5w's for $10 and a few months ago picked up 5 GE 5stars for the same. Although most of the tubes I buy aren't matched, I prefer to buy them with the same date codes and in lots of 4 or more...

 (Two weeks ago 22 GE 5 stars sold on eBay for $11.50 plus shipping....) I don't need anymore 5stars but dang that was a good price...


----------



## zool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hendry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how about power tube 6H6P-I in here 
6H6P-I Little Dot Amp Power Tube Upgrade 6N6 MATCHED PR - eBay (item 270260008680 end time Aug-03-08 23:41:37 PDT)

 this tube can be directly substituted without mod to MK III ? how about the sound ? any different with stock tube ? thanks_

 

Those look very similar to the ones that actually come with the MKIII.

 These look a bit more interesting to me 6H30Pi-EH Electro Harmonix Little Dot Amp MATCHED PAIR - eBay (item 270260858161 end time Aug-06-08 14:11:12 PDT)

 Pretty expensive though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those look very similar to the ones that actually come with the MKIII.

 These look a bit more interesting to me 6H30Pi-EH Electro Harmonix Little Dot Amp MATCHED PAIR - eBay (item 270260858161 end time Aug-06-08 14:11:12 PDT)

 Pretty expensive though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Those are the same that come stock on the MKIII, so they would be an upgrade tube for the MKII, because the MKII comes with the standard Chinese version that isn't -PI. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The EH 6H30PI's would require the resistor mod on the MKII or MKIII, for them to work. They are a super power tube. The 6H30 family is one of the best power tubes out there. They are the ones that come stock on the MKIVse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The cost is a bummer.


----------



## zool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those are the same that come stock on the MKIII, so they would be an upgrade tube for the MKII, because the MKII comes with the standard Chinese version that isn't -PI. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The EH 6H30PI's would require the transistor mod on the MKII or MKIII, for them to work. They are a super power tube. The 6H30 family is one of the best power tubes out there. They are the ones that come stock on the MKIVse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The cost is a bummer._

 

If you would do the transistor mod on the MKIII, would that then mean that the stock tubes would become useless or could you then use both?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those look very similar to the ones that actually come with the MKIII.

 These look a bit more interesting to me 6H30Pi-EH Electro Harmonix Little Dot Amp MATCHED PAIR - eBay (item 270260858161 end time Aug-06-08 14:11:12 PDT)

 Pretty expensive though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Those 6H6P-I look like later production ones which I've heard sounds better than the tubes from the early to mid 70's. I think the main advantage to buying them if you're a MkIII user is for to have matching power tubes, which is very important for maintaining good soundstage and separation of instruments. I think the 6H6P-I is actually a dual-triode tube and finding a matched pair with matching sections I imagine would take a lot of work... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - DoA


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you would do the transistor mod on the MKIII, would that then mean that the stock tubes would become useless or could you then use both?_

 

It's a one way street. Do the mod, and you are limited to 6H30 family. The 6H6NPI's would be too unstable for use, after the mod.

 There is an improvement to the overall SQ after modding and using the 6H30PI-EH Golds. It makes the whole spectrum more dynamic and improves the lower end a good deal. If your current tube set is great, and your source is great, and you still feel like you want that little extra "umph", then it may be worth the time and effort to do the mod. Just don't forget about killing the warranty.

 The mod is super easy on the MKII. It is above average in difficulty for the MKIII. This is due to the super tight fit inside. If you decide to do it, PM me and I'll give you some pointers that will help out some.

 Later...


----------



## webghost

RESISTOR not transistor mod


----------



## zool

Ordered one pair of Tung-Sol EF95 and one pair of Mullard EF92 from Yen.. According to him they should be here within 1 to 3 weeks. Just can't wait to try em out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 EDIT: I remember when I rolled the original Jan-Phillips tubes to Mullard on my x-can v2.. The difference was huge. Imo it went from being a mediocre sounding amp to a very good sounding amp. But with the MKIII already sounding so good with the stock tubes I don't expect that kind of night and day difference of course.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ordered one pair of Tung-Sol EF95 and one pair of Mullard EF92 from Yen.. According to him they should be here within 1 to 3 weeks. Just can't wait to try em out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 






 That probably means you got the tung-sol's I was lookin at! Yen is great, didn't take more than a few days to get the tubes from him, and the 2 pairs I got so far sound great (you're gonna love those mullards!).


----------



## Henmyr

Anyone use the MKIII with K501? If you do, what tube is your favorite?


----------



## zool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 That probably means you got the tung-sol's I was lookin at! Yen is great, didn't take more than a few days to get the tubes from him, and the 2 pairs I got so far sound great (you're gonna love those mullards!)._

 

Yeah, he seems like a very honest and down to earth kind of person.

 Man I was aching for the VOSHOD's as well, but I decided that two pair of tubes was enough.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone use the MKIII with K501? If you do, what tube is your favorite?_

 

Yep. With the k-501 I am torn between the Mullard 8161 (large shield) and the Russian Voshod 6ZH1P-EV.

 The Russians give the k-501s a very nice weight and heft and increases the bass a tad.

 The Mullards have superior instrument separation and spaciousness. The midrange is also sweeter than the Russians.

 Which one I choose day in and day out depends on my mood so I say get both.


----------



## zool

Got the tubes from Yen today.

 Out of the box the Mullard sounds pretty damn good, the Tung-Sols sound smooth but very recessed.

 I'll start off by burning-in the Mullards since they sound much better out of the box 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## ScottieB

Yeah the M8161 is turning out to be my favorite tube by a decent margin - well of what I have anyway. I do have the 'russians' and much prefer the Mullards. I'd love to get my hands on some telefunkens or some Tung Sols, but the only ones I can seem to find are more pricey than I'd like.

 I did grab a box of 8 NOS tubes - by some company called "Wireless Valve Electronics" for like $10 on ebay. Really I just wanted to 'future-proof' myself - have a bunch of tubes for just in case you know? Wasn't expecting much but they actually sound quite good! Certainly won't mind if that's all i have left.


----------



## Jare

Can anyone verify, if National 5654/6AK5W is made by Tung-Sol and is the same 403B tube of what everybody's talking here? Here's a photo of them too: http://members.shaw.ca/pacifictv/4national6ak5.jpg.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webghost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_RESISTOR not transistor mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 









 I guess it's obvious I have my typing disconnected from my brain! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Thanks for the catch!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jare* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone verify, if National 5654/6AK5W is made by Tung-Sol and is the same 403B tube of what everybody's talking here? Here's a photo of them too: http://members.shaw.ca/pacifictv/4national6ak5.jpg._

 

I looked to see if I had notes on this, which I don't. If those are the same ones Yen is selling, you should email him and ask. If he knows, he'll tell you. He's an honest guy for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 DoA, didn't National have everyone else make their tubes?


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jare* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone verify, if National 5654/6AK5W is made by Tung-Sol and is the same 403B tube of what everybody's talking here? Here's a photo of them too: http://members.shaw.ca/pacifictv/4national6ak5.jpg._

 

Those look like the exact same tubes I bought from Yen from the box to the color of print on the tube. He had them advertised as Tung-Sol re-branded as Nationals FWIW. OTW I wouldn't have bought them.


----------



## ciphercomplete

The Russian Voshod 6ZH1P-EV + the K-701 is a pretty good combo.


 UPDATE: Scratch that. This combo is awesome especially for rock/metal. I am hearing all types of guitar distortion that I have never heard even with my favorite rock cans the DR-150s.


----------



## zool

Scottie, what do you have your gain set to with the mullards?

 I found that the original tubes sounded best at gain 3 but the mullards seem to sound their best on gain 4 imo. This is all with the same headphone A900.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Russian Voshod 6ZH1P-EV + the K-701 is a pretty good combo.


 UPDATE: Scratch that. This combo is awesome especially for rock/metal. I am hearing all types of guitar distortion that I have never heard even with my favorite rock cans the DR-150s._

 

That's really interesting. I felt the same way, and I'm using HD-650s! I put on some older Rock, like Montrose, and it just blasts!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very fun tubes!!


----------



## zool

Wow, I'm really enjoying the Tung-Sols on gain 4. This tube SLAMS, the impact of the bass is just crazy. This is without a doubt my favorite tube atm. It sounded really weak and distant on gain 3, making me want to turn the volume knob up more then necessary. But with gain set to 4 it's a different story. All tough I haven't completely burnt the mullards or the tung-sols in yet so things might change, hopefully for the better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's really interesting. I felt the same way, and I'm using HD-650s! I put on some older Rock, like Montrose, and it just blasts!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very fun tubes!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I absolutely love that Montrose debut album (my vinyl copy is minty mint)......Paper Money is ok but the first one is still a classic. Ol Sammy was made for Rock, his later 70's Solo LP's are pretty damn good as well !!!!! 

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, I'm really enjoying the Tung-Sols on gain 4. This tube SLAMS, the impact of the bass is just crazy. This is without a doubt my favorite tube atm. It sounded really weak and distant on gain 3, making me want to turn the volume knob up more then necessary. But with gain set to 4 it's a different story. All tough I haven't completely burnt the mullards or the tung-sols in yet so things might change, hopefully for the better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Hey Zool,

 I'm a little confused. Are you changing gain settings with each type of tube?

 If so, then I should explain something that will make it all easier to deal with. The gain adjustments are there to help you match your headphones to the amp. A high gain setting like 10, would be for 300-600 ohm headphones, and the scale decreases with less impedance. Once you have it set correctly for your headphones, you should never have to change the gain settings again, unless you try a different headphone in a different range.

 The gain scale should be in the owner's manual. If not, let me know and I'll find mine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When rolling different tubes, you should only have to worry about which tube family they belong too. EF92 = jumpers on, EF95 = jumpers off. You shouldn't have to do any other settings.

 See ya!


----------



## Palantiri7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Scottie, what do you have your gain set to with the mullards?

 I found that the original tubes sounded best at gain 3 but the mullards seem to sound their best on gain 4 imo. This is all with the same headphone A900._

 

I didn't know the gain settings change the sound of the tubes; something new to play with!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Scottie, what do you have your gain set to with the mullards?

 I found that the original tubes sounded best at gain 3 but the mullards seem to sound their best on gain 4 imo. This is all with the same headphone A900._

 

I have my gain at 10 but that's because of my HD600s (300ohm) and really no other reason.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Palantiri7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't know the gain settings change the sound of the tubes; something new to play with!_

 


 Has nothing to do with "changes" it's just matching impedance to the headphones is all. The tube remains the same in SQ. The impedance mismatch via various gain settings is creating a false tweak so to speak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## zool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Zool,

 I'm a little confused. Are you changing gain settings with each type of tube?

 If so, then I should explain something that will make it all easier to deal with. The gain adjustments are there to help you match your headphones to the amp. A high gain setting like 10, would be for 300-600 ohm headphones, and the scale decreases with less impedance. Once you have it set correctly for your headphones, you should never have to change the gain settings again, unless you try a different headphone in a different range.

 The gain scale should be in the owner's manual. If not, let me know and I'll find mine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When rolling different tubes, you should only have to worry about which tube family they belong too. EF92 = jumpers on, EF95 = jumpers off. You shouldn't have to do any other settings.

 See ya!_

 

This is what I thought too but seems to not only make it louder but also bring the sound picture forward. I was turning up the volume knob on gain 3 with the Tung-Sols to about 2 o'clock. And it still sounded like the midrange was recessed to me. On gain 4 it makes it sound much more forward to me.

 I might be wrong here but it's just strange that the original tubes would sound better on gain 3 while the Tung-Sols sound better on gain 4. My listening levels on gain 4 with tung-sols are about the same as with the original tubes on gain 3.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is what I thought too but seems to not only make it louder but also bring the sound picture forward. I was turning up the volume knob on gain 3 with the Tung-Sols to about 2 o'clock. And it still sounded like the midrange was recessed to me. On gain 4 it makes it sound much more forward to me.

 I might be wrong here but it's just strange that the original tubes would sound better on gain 3 while the Tung-Sols sound better on gain 4. My listening levels on gain 4 with tung-sols are about the same as with the original tubes on gain 3._

 

Maybe? How many hours do you have on your amp? I do know that some tubes have a higher output than others, so this might factor in some too.


----------



## zool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe? How many hours do you have on your amp? I do know that some tubes have a higher output than others, so this might factor in some too._

 

Maybe 400h. Some thing like that.

 But I haven't fully burnt in the new tubes yet, that might also be a factor.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe 400h. Some thing like that.

 But I haven't fully burnt in the new tubes yet, that might also be a factor._

 

Ah, ok. I'm sure the tubes figure in, but the rest will be how far away from matching you are, from the proper setting for your headphones. This alone, can make a difference on how "loud" they seem, and how they sound too.


----------



## Alpha 1 Omega

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are excellent tubes for sure, but they are compatible with the older LDII++ headphone amps only. I think a few DV models use this tube also.

 My wife took my LDII++ and I haven't seen it in months! That's what I get for giving her HD-650's for Xmas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you were looking for an upgrade to the stock 6N6P Chinese power tubes, then find some Russian 6N6P-PI power tubes. They are a big improvement. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The tubes are usually marked 6H6N-N (the last N being backwards
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 Here is an example of them PP found on eBay: RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - eBay (item 260265119138 end time Jul-27-08 09:48:53 PDT)_

 

just got a set of those my self looking for a good front set to go with on my LD mk2


----------



## zool

Yup, looks like I might have been wrong about the gain switch. It really sounded like the music was more upfront and more aggressive on gain 4 which I still think it is a little bit but it's just not comfortable listening on this setting for long periods of time with my A900 (40Ohm). Going back to gain 3 now and I think the Tung-Sols are starting to sound more upfront after bit more burn-in.

 Thank you for clearing this out for me everyone. I think someone said false tweak and I think that was a good way to describe this.


----------



## One Fan To Another

Geese, I've been searching for an hour and I can't find the specific posts that tell you, in detail, how to do the resistor mod to use 6H30Pi tubes.

 Can someone link me directly to that post(s)/thread? Thanks.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *One Fan To Another* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Geese, I've been searching for an hour and I can't find the specific posts that tell you, in detail, how to do the resistor mod to use 6H30Pi tubes.

 Can someone link me directly to that post(s)/thread? Thanks._

 

Little Dot MKIII Tube Rolling - Page 46 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## One Fan To Another

^Thanks! I did eventually find it but thanks anyway.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

For those of you contemplating the resistor mod (to switch to 6H30PI).....you better have the patience of Mother Theresa, the dexterity of a pro card shark, and all the luck in the world trying to wedge a round peg through a square hole...other than that it wasn't bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously...my problem was adding PIO bypass caps to the main board, managed 3 of them on the big filter caps...couldn't fit another one in (was planning on 5 in total).

 It's an amazingly tight fit to say the least...luckily the MK III sprang to life after reassembly and power up.... Phew...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I won a pair of DR's on Feebay, for 45 less a pair than tube depot sells them for...thanks for the heads up Pench !!!!

 Peete.


----------



## PascalT

6Zh1P-EV/6J1P-EV/EF95/6F32/6AK7 VOSHOD! NOS! Tested! #4 - eBay (item 140261661612 end time Sep-02-08 13:35:06 PDT)

 are these the correct tubes Penchum just recommended to me? He mentioned 6ZH1P-EV tubes as very good ones to try. 

 It says:

 Lot of 4 NOS!!! Russian Tubes 6Zh1P-EV ( 6Ж1П-ЕВ )
 an quality equivalent of the EF95 / 6F32 / 6AK7

 The "equivalent" part throws me off. Can someone clarify?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_are these the correct tubes Penchum just recommended to me? He mentioned 6ZH1P-EV tubes as very good ones to try. 

 It says:

 Lot of 4 NOS!!! Russian Tubes 6Zh1P-EV ( 6Ж1П-ЕВ )
 an quality equivalent of the EF95 / 6F32 / 6AK7

 The "equivalent" part throws me off. Can someone clarify? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I would go with the matched pair from Yen Audio here (VOSHOD mil-spec 6J1P-EV / 6AK5 NOS Little Dot Amp EF95 - eBay (item 280260283328 end time Sep-02-08 02:09:19 PDT))


----------



## PascalT

awesome. thanks for the link!


----------



## PascalT

question: is there any differences between the link I posted for the tubes and the tubes yen sells? Both state they are matched tubes, but the yen ones cost $36 total while the other would be $18 total.
_
 This auction is for a high quality MATCHED PAIR (2) of New Old Stock (NOS) Russian military-spec Voshod 6J1P-EV / 6AK5 vacuum tubes in original military boxes._

 or

_Lot of 4 NOS!!! Russian Tubes 6Zh1P-EV ( 6Ж1П-ЕВ )

 an quality equivalent of the EF95 / 6F32 / 6AK7

 Military equipment , high reliability, long life.
 The tubes are never used. Old stock.
 TESTED, MATCHED + + + 100% OK!!! 
_


 *confused*


----------



## Hrama

Alright, I have a rather newbish question that I'm sure has an incredibly simple answer, though I can't seem to find that answer by digging through the endless pages of this forum through the search function. Alright, my question is... how exactly do you take out and put in tubes on a LD MKIII? Just got it a week ago and it's my first headphone amp and all, so I am completely clueless as to how you get them out without breaking them. Do you just pull or twist them out? I think I'd like to start some tube rolling to find a sound I really enjoy and of course, this is the first thing I need to know.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Pascal.....either source is good.Yen does match them much more closely than the "check if they're good on meter method" employed by the other guy.

 FWIW I have tubes from Yen and the cheap way...either are good.

 Peete.


----------



## PascalT

thanks peete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll grab some.. I also got some Sylvanias 6AK5.. square getter, but it was pretty cheap.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hrama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, I have a rather newbish question that I'm sure has an incredibly simple answer, though I can't seem to find that answer by digging through the endless pages of this forum through the search function. Alright, my question is... how exactly do you take out and put in tubes on a LD MKIII? Just got it a week ago and it's my first headphone amp and all, so I am completely clueless as to how you get them out without breaking them. Do you just pull or twist them out? I think I'd like to start some tube rolling to find a sound I really enjoy and of course, this is the first thing I need to know._

 

Gently rock the tube back and forth while pulling up at the same time. I use gloves when doing this and always make sure the glass is fingerprint free. The oil from our skin creates hot spots that isn't good for the tubes. Do not use cleaners on the tubes...just some slight breath followed by a very soft lint free cloth. Some treat the pins before inserting (with Caig Deoxit, then Pro Gold and others don't do anything of the kind).

 Make sure your amp has completely cooled down before removing any tubes.

 Welcome to the wonderful world of tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks peete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll grab some.. I also got some Sylvanias 6AK5.. square getter, but it was pretty cheap._

 

If you come across Sylvania round getter black plate W or WA versions ( 6AK5W or 6AK5WA ), snap them up...they are extremely good tubes.

 Peete.


----------



## Jare

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_question: is there any differences between the link I posted for the tubes and the tubes yen sells? Both state they are matched tubes, but the yen ones cost $36 total while the other would be $18 total.

 This auction is for a high quality MATCHED PAIR (2) of New Old Stock (NOS) Russian military-spec Voshod 6J1P-EV / 6AK5 vacuum tubes in original military boxes.

 or

Lot of 4 NOS!!! Russian Tubes 6Zh1P-EV ( 6Ж1П-ЕВ )

 an quality equivalent of the EF95 / 6F32 / 6AK7

 Military equipment , high reliability, long life.
 The tubes are never used. Old stock.
 TESTED, MATCHED + + + 100% OK!!! 



 *confused*_

 

Well, it depends how much you trust that Ukrainian guy and he's testing methods and/or testing equipment. Anyway, those are the exact same tubes for sale in yen-audio and xryn. I don't have much experience on buying tubes, but in my humble opinion yen sells a bit overpriced stuff. However, it's considered safe here meaning you get what you pay for.

 Btw. I bought four tested&matched 6zh1p-ev from the same guy on friday 15 august. Haven't got them yet, but hopefully i'll get them soon.


----------



## PascalT

bought it from the same guy as well. For $18 difference it's worth the extra wait I think. 

 Peete: Will do! I'm just testing the waters here as far as tubes go.. I think 2 pairs will suffice for the introduction... for now.


----------



## Hrama

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gently rock the tube back and forth while pulling up at the same time. I use gloves when doing this and always make sure the glass is fingerprint free. The oil from our skin creates hot spots that isn't good for the tubes. Do not use cleaners on the tubes...just some slight breath followed by a very soft lint free cloth. Some treat the pins before inserting (with Caig Deoxit, then Pro Gold and others don't do anything of the kind).

 Make sure your amp has completely cooled down before removing any tubes.

 Welcome to the wonderful world of tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Thanks Pete, just the answer I was looking for and I appreciate the help on that. I am assuming when you put them back in you just gently push them back into their little holding place as well? Also, thanks for advice on cleaning and caring for my amp, I'm just a budding head-fier, so I need all the help I can get. My little MKIII does sound amazing with the HD-650s, I must admit, so I know I'm going to have a ball tube-rolling when I find some tubes I want to try.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hrama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Pete, just the answer I was looking for and I appreciate the help on that. I am assuming when you put them back in you just gently push them back into their little holding place as well? Also, thanks for advice on cleaning and caring for my amp, I'm just a budding head-fier, so I need all the help I can get. My little MKIII does sound amazing with the HD-650s, I must admit, so I know I'm going to have a ball tube-rolling when I find some tubes I want to try._

 

Just line up the pins and gently push the new tubes into the sockets. Make sure the pins on the new tubes are not bent and are correctly spaced. The sockets themselves will correct any variances but it's best to make sure they are pretty straight before insertion.

 Keep the dust off the tubes/amp every day. I use a dry swiffer cloth...works great. Be careful not to put a static charge through anything delicate like a DAC or SS device. Ground yourself by discharging the static before and after dusting (touch a comp case shell for instance). Static is only a problem in the winter usually...I know it's like that in my home during the long winter months. If you live in an area where winter is non existent...can I move in ?..I've got some kick arse gear and a ton of CD's/LP/8-Tracks/Cassettes etc...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just trying to think of all the little things to help you out with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Hrama

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just line up the pins and gently push the new tubes into the sockets. Make sure the pins on the new tubes are not bent and are correctly spaced. The sockets themselves will correct any variances but it's best to make sure they are pretty straight before insertion.

 Keep the dust off the tubes/amp every day. I use a dry swiffer cloth...works great. Be careful not to put a static charge through anything delicate like a DAC or SS device. Ground yourself by discharging the static before and after dusting (touch a comp case shell for instance). Static is only a problem in the winter usually...I know it's like that in my home during the long winter months. If you live in an area where winter is non existent...can I move in ?..I've got some kick arse gear and a ton of CD's/LP/8-Tracks/Cassettes etc...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just trying to think of all the little things to help you out with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Thanks again Peete, all of that is great to know and naw, live in MD right now, so winters are very much existent. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Hmm keeping the dust off of the tubes eh? Makes sense. Alright, I think I have a few, extra microfiber cloths that might work alright for this situation. I build computers, so most of this stuff is pretty sensible when you think about it when it comes to static charges and avoiding them for the most part, so I think I'll be alright now that I have an idea. Now to hunt down a decent, cheap DAC, so back to snooping mode.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The Zero is right up your alley my friend and is a great match with the MK III.

 Peete.


----------



## Hrama

Aha, thanks Peete, I was just thinking about that as my first choice since It's relatively cheap, has a great selection of input/outputs and such. Glad to hear it matches well with the MKIII, so it might very well be my next choice. Can't wait.


----------



## Danika k

Wow I just tried the matched pair Mullard M8100 / CV4010 on my Mk3 for the first time and its just amazing! It totally opened up the bass sounds compared to the tubes the amp came with and they just give me a big smile on my face.


----------



## Jare

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jare* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw. I bought four tested&matched 6zh1p-ev from the same guy on friday 15 august. Haven't got them yet, but hopefully i'll get them soon._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_bought it from the same guy as well. For $18 difference it's worth the extra wait I think._

 

I just received a note that the package is in the local post office. So didn't take too long to ship. Actually it was rerouted to my new apartment which means it took a day or two longer for that. Going to test them tomorrow


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you come across Sylvania round getter black plate W or WA versions ( 6AK5W or 6AK5WA ), snap them up...they are extremely good tubes.

 Peete._

 

I got some of those square getter Sylvanias, too - pretty cheap. They sound pretty darn good to me. Not quite as good as my M8161s, but muuuuch cheaper! Just as good if not better than the stock tubes, IMO.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Scottie, the round getter black plates are in a league of their own, right up there with top 3 tubes I've ever heard in the MK III. The square getter version is not the same with regards to SQ but they do give a taste of the black plate SQ signature. Sylvania made great tubes under stringent QC guidelines...what would pass in another's line would be crushed by the Sylvania crew....

 My list is as follows and they all tie for first

 Amperex PQ E95F or EF95 bugle boys,
 Sylvania 6AK5W/WA round getter black plate,
 Mullard EF 92 large shield,

 They are all outstanding in the MK III !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Yeah Peete I hear ya and do not doubt it one bit. However, the ones you mentioned are pretty tough to come bvy - and when I do, they are WAY more than I care to pay. I've already spent $30+ on a few sets of tubes, so now I'm bargain hunting. I was very satisfied with the square getter Sylvanias I got - about 8 of them for around $20 shipped. I'd love to get some Tung Sol or Bugle Boys, but every time I see them it is Yen seeling them - the last listing I saw for the Tung Sols was $48 PLUS shipping!!! Too much for me at this point, so I've been looking at the lower end.


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mullard EF 92 large shield,_

 

Do you mean these? Mullard CV131 / 6CQ6 Little Dot Amp MkII MkIV EF92 - (eBay.ca item 280259229234 end time 29-Aug-08 20:49:22 EDT)

 I'm getting bored with these russian's so it's time to try something new. EF92 family this time I guess.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean these? Mullard CV131 / 6CQ6 Little Dot Amp MkII MkIV EF92 - (eBay.ca item 280259229234 end time 29-Aug-08 20:49:22 EDT)

 I'm getting bored with these russian's so it's time to try something new. EF92 family this time I guess. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm not sure if that's what he meant, but to me, of all the tubes I;ve heard these:
Mullard M8161 / CV4015 Mil. Spec. Little Dot Amp EF92 - (eBay.ca item 280259229223 end time 29-Aug-08 20:49:18 EDT) 
 are my favorites. FWIW...


----------



## Jare

Darn, these russian 6zh1p-ev tubes are good compared to the default ge's! So detailed and neutral sound with that little "umph" in the bass. Highs are also more refined and sound stage seems to be a bit larger. I actually found new sounds with these. Let's see how they evolve in the burn-in process. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Btw. that ukrainian xryn seems to be a great ebayer. Posting was fast enough and tubes were packaged really well. Of course the tubes are in great shape too.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jare* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Darn, these russian 6zh1p-ev tubes are good compared to the default ge's! So detailed and neutral sound with that little "umph" in the bass. Highs are also more refined and sound stage seems to be a bit larger. I actually found new sounds with these. Let's see how they evolve in the burn-in process. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Btw. that ukrainian xryn seems to be a great ebayer. Posting was fast enough and tubes were packaged really well. Of course the tubes are in great shape too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I agree with your assessment of the 6ZH1P-EV Russian drivers. Any roughness you might hear in the mid-high areas will clean up nicely during burn-in. Mine took right at 50 hours to complete. I think you'll like the results!


----------



## CodeToad

I second the Mullard M8100's. They are nice as the GE 5 Star's but not as tinny and bright on top. Kind of the best of the Tung Sol and GE 5 Star's together.

 RCA's are good too. I picked up some RCA 6AK5W's from 1960's and they have a much better sound stage than the stock GE's.

 I really wouldn't get too hung up on particular tubes, however, as the stock tubes are just fine.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Danika k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow I just tried the matched pair Mullard M8100 / CV4010 on my Mk3 for the first time and its just amazing! It totally opened up the bass sounds compared to the tubes the amp came with and they just give me a big smile on my face. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The M8100 really is quite transformative to the sound, it's one of the best sounding EF95 in my experience.


----------



## HeatFan12

I revert back to this thread every now and then for different tube selections. Sorry if this has been posted before but has anyone tried these CV850 Quad Mullard EF95 6AK5 5654 CV4010 CV850 NOS NIB MINT - eBay (item 140259440402 end time Aug-28-08 13:57:36 PDT) I have an MKIVSE and all the driver tube info for it has been done through this thread for me...
 When I sent him a message he said they were matched, so I just want to make sure...

 Thanks
 Jes


----------



## CodeToad

Someone posted this on the little dot site.

Antique Electronic Supply

 Search for "6ak5w" and you'll find Mullard M8100 for $3.56 a piece.


----------



## PascalT

Just got a pair of Sylvania JAN 6AK5/5654/EF95/6J1 Vacuum Tubes from seller w.e.s.-1 on ebay. What a difference it makes over the stock tubes, and right away. 

 The sound is so much more detailed, I'm hearing things i never did before, like the slight brushing of cymbals in the background. The sound is richer and the bass kicks more without being too overbearing. There is also clearer separation between the instruments.. ie. it's a bit less "muddy" as before. Those are the 3 things i noticed right away with these tubes. 

 These are the black plates/square getters tubes.

 For 18.00/4 you can't go wrong.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sylvania made great tubes.....

 Peete.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The M8100 really is quite transformative to the sound, it's one of the best sounding EF95 in my experience. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

x2 I've got the Russians, Tung-sols, GE 5 stars, Sylvanias, RCA, Amperex, Telefunken, and these M8100s are right up there with the best.....Took advantage of the sale at Antique Electronic Supply and got a bunch...


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2 I've got the Russians, Tung-sols, GE 5 stars, Sylvanias, RCA, Amperex, Telefunken, and these M8100s are right up there with the best.....Took advantage of the sale at Antique Electronic Supply and got a bunch..._

 

Strange how everyone seems to like them. I have two pairs and don't like their sound at all. Guess they don't like Grados too much. Though the guy I bought my Grados from adviced me to try those. Both burned for ~100 hours. I prefer these Russians over them any day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just ordered quad of Sylvania JAN 6AK5 and a matched pair of Tung-Sol 6AK5W 5654 from Yen. Gonna post my thoughts about them as soon as I have some hours on them.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Strange how everyone seems to like them. I have two pairs and don't like their sound at all. Guess they don't like Grados too much. Though the guy I bought my Grados from adviced me to try those. Both burned for ~100 hours. I prefer these Russians over them any day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just ordered quad of Sylvania JAN 6AK5 and a matched pair of Tung-Sol 6AK5W 5654 from Yen. Gonna post my thoughts about them as soon as I have some hours on them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Of course everyone's got different ears ....but I bet u're gonna like those Tung-Sols with the Grados....Let us know how they turn out....


----------



## esirex

Hi there, do we need to do a mod if I wanna change the power tube to 6H30Pi-EH Electro Harmonix? Or is it a direct swap? Just like to make sure b4 purchasing it. On yen audio its said a direct replacement.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *esirex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi there, do we need to do a mod if I wanna change the power tube to 6H30Pi-EH Electro Harmonix? Or is it a direct swap? Just like to make sure b4 purchasing it. On yen audio its said a direct replacement._

 


 Its a direct swap for the MKIV but for the MKIII you'll need to do a resistor mod.


----------



## Trapper32

Just managed to pick up some EF92 Bugle Boys on eBay.....been looking for 6 months....can't wait to hear if they're as good as everyone says...


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Just managed to pick up some EF92 Bugle Boys on eBay.....been looking for 6 months....can't wait to hear if they're as good as everyone says..._

 

Lucky you. Give em to me, I order you!


----------



## esirex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its a direct swap for the MKIV but for the MKIII you'll need to do a resistor mod._

 

Thanks for the info trapper...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Well this isn't exactly a tube roll...but it will sure help those tubes to sing....latest mod on the MK III.....resistor changed to 120 ohm for use of 6H30Pi power tube, PIO bypass caps on 3 x 270uf 250V filter caps in power supply section, PIO bypass caps on 2 x 220uf 200V caps....and Teflon bypass caps (.1 uf 600V DC 5% tol) slung on the underside of chassis. PIO cap values are .033uf 500V 10% (all 5). Teflons bypass 3.3 uf 50V WIMA MKP 1 output coupling caps.

 Sounds great so far...NOS Telefunken CV4015 drivers ( note Sylvania black plate 6AK5WA's in photos), Sovtek 6H30Pi power tubes. Tubes have less than 100 hours with cap mods less than 10 hours.

 Really impressed with the immediate improvement in SQ. 

 Heres a couple pics....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Underside shot showing huge Teflon caps attached with zip ties through stock chassis holes. The cap bodies have been wrapped in electrical tape ....they are aluminum casings...so they had to be insulated from the chassis bottom.






 Last shot showing just how tight this little chassis is, hard to believe I stuffed 5 PIO bypass caps in there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 The end result ? Well worth the effort IMO. Total cost of upgrade is around 80 dollars including a set of matched Sovtek 6H30Pi's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A bargain by any standards these days....Burn in is going to be a long wait I'm afraid, min 250 - 350 hours...sigh...

 Peete.


----------



## dgbiker1

Has anyone else noticed a VERY faint hum, sounds like a quiet ground loop buzz but it's heard from the case, not through the headphones. I have to listen for it to hear it, but when I do hear it I can detect it from across the room. 

 I first found it when I was doing the "smoke test" on my Opus, listening for anything going awry. The opus passed, but I picked up on the hum from the MkIII for the first time.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone else noticed a VERY faint hum, sounds like a quiet ground loop buzz but it's heard from the case, not through the headphones. I have to listen for it to hear it, but when I do hear it I can detect it from across the room. 

 I first found it when I was doing the "smoke test" on my Opus, listening for anything going awry. The opus passed, but I picked up on the hum from the MkIII for the first time._

 

Transformer making noise/vibrating perhaps ? I have no hum whatsoever, what's the mains line voltage out in your neck of the woods dgb ?

 How are you doing these days ? Nice to see you again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## dgbiker1

Wow peete, those are some impressive mods on your MkIII. I'm hanging in there, it's been an insane few months (finished school, wrote my thesis, started my job, moved three times, etc...). My poor MkIII hasn't been seeing much upgrade/rolling love lately since I've been spending my money on building an opus dac, and now an M^3 amp (a SS amp, but I love the look of tubes so it'll have a nixie tube vu meter





)

 Yea, I'm thinking it's the transformer too, but I don't know if I'm within spec or if it should be silent. It's a good excuse to buy tube dampers and some of those spiked feet and cork for the amp
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mains voltage should be about 120VAC, but I've never bothered to stick my dmm in the socket to check. I'm moving next weekend, so it'll be interesting to see if the problem persists.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dgbiker1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow peete, those are some impressive mods on your MkIII. I'm hanging in there, it's been an insane few months (finished school, wrote my thesis, started my job, moved three times, etc...). My poor MkIII hasn't been seeing much upgrade/rolling love lately since I've been spending my money on building an opus dac, and now an M^3 amp (a SS amp, but I love the look of tubes so it'll have a nixie tube vu meter





)

 Yea, I'm thinking it's the transformer too, but I don't know if I'm within spec or if it should be silent. It's a good excuse to buy tube dampers and some of those spiked feet and cork for the amp
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mains voltage should be about 120VAC, but I've never bothered to stick my dmm in the socket to check. I'm moving next weekend, so it'll be interesting to see if the problem persists._

 

Thats a very cool VU meter idea! Please keep us posted!


----------



## Danika k

Hi I see that the Yen Audio store on ebay are listing 408A tubes as compatible with little dot amps, will they work with my MkIII? How do they sound? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


eBay Store - Yen Audio: Little Dot Upgrade Tubes: Westinghouse 408A Little Dot I Amp MATCHED PAIR 6028


----------



## dgbiker1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Danika k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi I see that the Yen Audio store on ebay are listing 408A tubes as compatible with little dot amps, will they work with my MkIII? How do they sound? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


eBay Store - Yen Audio: Little Dot Upgrade Tubes: Westinghouse 408A Little Dot I Amp MATCHED PAIR 6028_

 

They don't work. I tried WE 408As, I got silence.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Danika k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi I see that the Yen Audio store on ebay are listing 408A tubes as compatible with little dot amps, will they work with my MkIII? How do they sound? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


eBay Store - Yen Audio: Little Dot Upgrade Tubes: Westinghouse 408A Little Dot I Amp MATCHED PAIR 6028_

 

They're compatible with the new LD 1+


----------



## PascalT

I have a question.. about 2 weeks ago I received 2 sets of Sylvania tubes. I put one in, sounds awesome, great. I then try another set of tubes but decide to go back to the Sylvanias, but they really don't sound nearly as good as before.

 What gives? Can burning in those tubes actually make them sound bad?  I put the set i hadn't used yet in just now, and it sounds just as good as originally. There is a huge difference in the soundstage between the two sets, it's like night and day.

 Question is.. are those tubes known to "close up" and muddle up the sound after burning in? It just seems weird to me that the sound would degrade after some use.

 thanks for any insight.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question.. about 2 weeks ago I received 2 sets of Sylvania tubes. I put one in, sounds awesome, great. I then try another set of tubes but decide to go back to the Sylvanias, but they really don't sound nearly as good as before.

 What gives? Can burning in those tubes actually make them sound bad?  I put the set i hadn't used yet in just now, and it sounds just as good as originally. There is a huge difference in the soundstage between the two sets, it's like night and day.

 Question is.. are those tubes known to "close up" and muddle up the sound after burning in? It just seems weird to me that the sound would degrade after some use.

 thanks for any insight._

 

Not that I'm an expert but it certainly seems possible - like if they change at all during burn-in there's cetainly no guarantee that said changes will be positive - especially when considering that everyone's ears and tastes are different. So to you they may change for the worse but to someone else it could be the opposite. For as much science as there actually is involved in all the head-fi stuff, at the end of the day, there's just far too many variables for there to be hard-and-fast "rules" about most of it... just something to consider.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question.. about 2 weeks ago I received 2 sets of Sylvania tubes. I put one in, sounds awesome, great. I then try another set of tubes but decide to go back to the Sylvanias, but they really don't sound nearly as good as before.

 What gives? Can burning in those tubes actually make them sound bad?  I put the set i hadn't used yet in just now, and it sounds just as good as originally. There is a huge difference in the soundstage between the two sets, it's like night and day.

 Question is.. are those tubes known to "close up" and muddle up the sound after burning in? It just seems weird to me that the sound would degrade after some use.

 thanks for any insight._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not that I'm an expert but it certainly seems possible - like if they change at all during burn-in there's cetainly no guarantee that said changes will be positive - especially when considering that everyone's ears and tastes are different. So to you they may change for the worse but to someone else it could be the opposite. For as much science as there actually is involved in all the head-fi stuff, at the end of the day, there's just far too many variables for there to be hard-and-fast "rules" about most of it... just something to consider._

 

I agree with ScottieB on this one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have also had two sets come out different than each other. I wish I had a tube tester, so I could see what differences exist between two sets like that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One of these days, hopefully.

 While the unmatched multiple sets have turned out a few pairs with this problem, or difference, generally, the matched sets that you pay more for, don't have these issues. At least I haven't run into any problems so far. I know several "tube expert" members here that recommend only the matched sets, just for this type of reason, and as time goes by, they seem to be more right than wrong on this. I don't like the extra cost factor, but it seems to alleviate regret in the long run. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 YMMV as usual.


----------



## PascalT

true that. I did get the cheaper set of 4s rather than a "perfectly" matched pair from yen on ebay. I think i'll just bite the bullet and buy another pair.

 I must say, the initial sound I got from these Sylvania tubes was heavenly. Too bad it didn't last. sniff


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_true that. I did get the cheaper set of 4s rather than a "perfectly" matched pair from yen on ebay. I think i'll just bite the bullet and buy another pair.

 I must say, the initial sound I got from these Sylvania tubes was heavenly. Too bad it didn't last. sniff_

 

I had a matched pair do this to me, no guarentee's with NOS glass......it happens. 


 Peete.


----------



## PascalT

has anyone bought tubes from seller walden on ebay?

 He sells his Mullard 8161s 30 bucks less than yen.. says they are "date matched".

M8161 CV4015 6065 MULLARD~NEW~DATE MATCH~TUBE AMPLIFIER - (eBay.ca item 180289773062 end time 22-Sep-08 20:00:00 EDT)

 Wondering how reliable it might be to buy it from him. I don't want mismatched tubes again


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_has anyone bought tubes from seller walden on ebay?

 He sells his Mullard 8161s 30 bucks less than yen.. says they are "date matched".

M8161 CV4015 6065 MULLARD~NEW~DATE MATCH~TUBE AMPLIFIER - (eBay.ca item 180289773062 end time 22-Sep-08 20:00:00 EDT)

 Wondering how reliable it might be to buy it from him. I don't want mismatched tubes again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Tough to say, but those are certainly worth the asking price. I'm not sure if those are large shield or small. Someone else will chime in on that.

 Peete.


----------



## sinisterm

Mmmmm I love these Tung Sols (Tung-Sol 6AK5W 5654 matched from Yen). Tho they have ~30 hours now and the sound is still refining. Very nice detail, clear highs and deep bass. Only thing these seem to somewhat lack is in the mid-area. Keeping my hopes up it gets better with more hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Compared to Russians they have much deeper bass, a bit more detail, more silkier highs, but they lack some of Russian's mids.

 I recommend em for anyone with Grados out there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Got the Sylvanias too, black Plates, square Getters, ~1960s. My jaw almost dropped when I put em on and listened to some of my favourite songs. They just give so smooth and DEEP bass I couldn't believe that 325i's could even deliver. It's a shame that their mids and highs are pretty bad compared to Tung Sols or the Russian's.

 It's a hard decision between the Tung Sols and Russians. If these Tung Sols still mature with mids I think they will become my number one choice.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The Syl black plate round getters get it all, right.....look for that type in a ruggedized (SP?) 6AK5W or WA version.

 I agree with your Tung Sol views, the mids will come forward a little once they have burned in.

 Peete.


----------



## yamadog1998

I Have The MK 111 And i Am Using AKG 701 Headphones with It.This Is hooked Into my Computer,Which has a 7.1 digital sound card.I have 2sets of Gl5654 tubes,But would like some suggestions on the other tubes.I am new to tube products and don't know anything about tube rolling.

 Thank You For any help.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yamadog1998* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I Have The MK 111 And i Am Using AKG 701 Headphones with It.This Is hooked Into my Computer,Which has a 7.1 digital sound card.I have 2sets of Gl5654 tubes,But would like some suggestions on the other tubes.I am new to tube products and don't know anything about tube rolling.

 Thank You For any help._

 

Start with the Mullard M8100 and Voshod EF95, those two are something of a bench-mark to compare with other tubes. Due to the age of these tubes and the variable nature of vintage electronics, I would recommend getting tubes that are tested and matched by a trusted vendor rather than buying them As-Is (tip: if they don't list the equipment they use to 'test' their tubes then it's more than likely that they don't, especially on ebay where sketchy sellers roam), there's no point in buying a pair of tubes only to have them be unmatched and sound bad, even if they're cheap, like everything else in life you get what you pay for, that's my opinion though.

 Anyway, I would start looking with Yen Audio on ebay for LD tube upgrades (eBay Store - Yen Audio: Little Dot Upgrade Tubes: 6H6P-I Little Dot Amp Power Tube Upgrade 6N6 MATCHED PR)

 Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## yamadog1998

Thank You.
 I am getting the 6h6p's and will be using the gl5654 as drivers,unless someone has a better idea,or can the gl5654's even work with the 6h6p's.Here again i demonstrate my newness to this hobby.The one thing i can say is i love my music,and demand a higher standard of quality.
 Thank you for all the help.I can see i have found a home with like minded people.


----------



## PascalT

could someone compare these two tubes' sound for me?

 The Mullard M8161 (EF92) and Tung-Sol 6AK5W (EF95)
 I read in this thread the Mullards would give a very smooth and silky sound whereas the Tung-Sol (as read above on this page) might lack in mids early on but offer pretty good detail and highs?

 If you had to choose one which one would you get? Obviously all a matter of taste but curious if there's a clear cut "winner" here. Perhaps the hassle of switching jumper every time i switch tubes might discount the Mullards out.


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yamadog1998* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank You.
 I am getting the 6h6p's and will be using the gl5654 as drivers,unless someone has a better idea,or can the gl5654's even work with the 6h6p's.Here again i demonstrate my newness to this hobby.The one thing i can say is i love my music,and demand a higher standard of quality.
 Thank you for all the help.I can see i have found a home with like minded people._

 

If I were you I'd just change the driver tubes for starters. Good choice would be Russian 6ZH1P-EV. You can get them bloody cheap and they sound too good for the money.

 I ordered mine from 6AK5W - 5654 - 6ZH1P-EV Tubes. Set of 4 - eBay (item 290258481438 end time Oct-05-08 02:42:40 PDT)

 --

 PascalT,

 Can't compare them, sorry, but:

 "but offer pretty good detail and highs" -> offer good detail, good highs, good bass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Overall these are very nice indeed. Without that lack of mids (which seems to get better all the time, or my ears are just getting used to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) these would be close to perfect to my ears.

 Oh my poor wallet. Have to order some EF92's, Mullards maybe, just to test them out now.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Anyone have any info on the manufacturer of these ?

CV4015 6065 ZAERIX~D GETTERS~NEW IN BOX~~TUBE AMPLIFIER - (eBay.ca item 170250856775 end time 13-Oct-08 12:22:09 EDT)

 Weird name (Zaerix) I haven't heard before. Might be a find, might be junk...who knows..?

 Peete.


----------



## Skylab

The issue with Zaerix is you never know where the tubes were made. I have some Zaerix branded ECC32's which are Mullards. I also bought some Zaerix EL84's which I thought looked Russian, and they were for sure.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks Sky......crap shoot basically. 

 Peete.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah - you have to be able to tell what you are getting from looking at photos of the tube construction or else you could overpay. I went ahead and bought the Zaerix EL84's because they were fairly priced for Russian tubes. But if they had been priced like UK EL84's, and I had gotten them and only then discovered they were Russian, I would have been really mad.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Well considering the sleeve of 6 is bin'ed at 20US, it's a safe bet they aren't anything special, although the Vendor seems completely upfront about the origin...as in he hasn't a clue. The tube in question has a close up shot, after careful study between the Zaerix and a Mullard CV (I have on hand), it's tough to make an uneducated guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.....It does seem to me that the Zaerix construction seems a little sloppy when compared to the real deal....then again that may not be an indicator of overall SQ....However this turns out I thank you Sky, for the valuable info...

 Peete.


----------



## easycure

Hi all,

 i just bought three pairs of new tubes because of your recommendations. I think i have a new addiction and im doomed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I bought:
 Mullard M8161 / CV4015 Mil. Spec
 Tung-Sol 6AK5W 5654
 GE Five Star 6AK5

 Cant wait until they arrive.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *easycure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,

 i just bought three pairs of new tubes because of your recommendations. I think i have a new addiction and im doomed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I bought:
 Mullard M8161 / CV4015 Mil. Spec
 Tung-Sol 6AK5W 5654
 GE Five Star 6AK5

 Cant wait until they arrive._

 

DOH.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't worry it's well worth the $$$$ spent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## HeatFan12

X2...



 Peete, how do you like those 6H30PI-DR's...?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2...



 Peete, how do you like those 6H30PI-DR's...?_

 

Man are they something........expensive bastards though.....still getting used to them. They have about 85 hours on them so they are almost mature. They sure do extend the freq ranges and are smooooooooth from top to bottom. Nice tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm really liking what they bring to the MK III. I imagine DR's are overkill cost wise for the MK III but what the hell, I'm an idiot with money to spend (at times)....This should be a good excuse for me to buy a MK IVSE, except I really want to get the MK VI....dang it all, decisions, decisions
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## HeatFan12

Thanks Peete

 My finger has been on the trigger many times, however, I have held off. I guess I'll wait just a bit more. Thanks again for the info, very helpful...


----------



## One Fan To Another

I just recently did the 120Ohm resistor mod and DAMN does my MKIII get hot now with these EH 6H30PI golds.

 What does anyone think is the next best mod I should try?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

double post.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *One Fan To Another* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just recently did the 120Ohm resistor mod and DAMN does my MKIII get hot now with these EH 6H30PI golds.

 What does anyone think is the next best mod I should try?_

 

I assume you've looked through the tube rolling options for the driver tubes? I especially like the sound of the EF91 (especially the blue-glass Mullard M8083) with the 6H30Pi, I think they synergize very well and the Mullard M8083 is quite an underrated tube around here in my opinion.

 Speaking of upgrade, I'm planning on getting these gold-plated jumpers to use with my M8161, looks promising and solves my problem with the stock jumpers. Jumper Upgrade Little Dot Headphone Amp Gold Plated - eBay (item 280270773534 end time Oct-24-08 12:47:41 PDT)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assume you've looked through the tube rolling options for the driver tubes? I especially like the sound of the EF91 (especially the blue-glass Mullard M8083) with the 6H30Pi, I think they synergize very well and the Mullard M8083 is quite an underrated tube around here in my opinion.

 Speaking of upgrade, I'm planning on getting these gold-plated jumpers to use with my M8161, looks promising and solves my problem with the stock jumpers. Jumper Upgrade Little Dot Headphone Amp Gold Plated - eBay (item 280270773534 end time Oct-24-08 12:47:41 PDT)_

 

Those are pretty nice! I've been looking for a bulk seller on these, but haven't had any luck yet. Please let us know your impressions of them. Getting rid of hassles is almost always a good idea.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *One Fan To Another* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just recently did the 120Ohm resistor mod and DAMN does my MKIII get hot now with these EH 6H30PI golds.

 What does anyone think is the next best mod I should try?_

 

That's a loaded question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not sure how to answer that one other than upgrade the output coupling caps (WIMA 3.3 uf 63V) in it for better quality film and foil type then bypass those with small value .033uf or .015uf Teflons....

 That's a pretty good upgrade over the stock parts. 

 My amp gets pretty hot too...I put large brass cone point footers on the bottom giving it a little better air flow underneath...seems to have helped it quite a bit to shed heat quicker and run a little bit cooler overall. I also needed the clearance for the huge .1uf 600V Teflon bypass caps (on the output coupling caps) that wouldn't fit inside 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## One Fan To Another

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assume you've looked through the tube rolling options for the driver tubes? I especially like the sound of the EF91 (especially the blue-glass Mullard M8083) with the 6H30Pi, I think they synergize very well and the Mullard M8083 is quite an underrated tube around here in my opinion.

 Speaking of upgrade, I'm planning on getting these gold-plated jumpers to use with my M8161, looks promising and solves my problem with the stock jumpers. Jumper Upgrade Little Dot Headphone Amp Gold Plated - eBay (item 280270773534 end time Oct-24-08 12:47:41 PDT)_

 

I now have the EH 6H30Pi Golds to go with my Sylvania 6AK5 Gold tubes. I may try a couple Mullard M80XX tubes but I really liked the sound I was getting with these broken in Sylvanias.

 I JUST put in the EH power tubes so I'll have to wait a bit for final judgement but as of right now I think I may have liked the stock power tubes that were in there better (again - can't judge 'till after burn in). Some of the bass I had seems to have tightened up, not for the better, but may loosen up after burn in.


----------



## Shizdan

I'm a noob at all this and what i have gatherd from this thread is
 -Basically when order, i need to order 2 of the same tubes and put them in hte fron (driver tubes)
 -Mullard M8100s are pretty popular
 -The Stock Tubes are the EF95
 -Matched Tubes are better / More stable / More comforting...I Don't know how to put it

 Great Comparison of Tubes from ethebull......

 "Stock GE's vs. Mullard M8100 vs. Amperex 5654

 I use my amp purely for CD and LP listening. The system I own and used for this tube comparison is as follows: Marantz DR700 CD Player/recorder > Transparent Digital Link Plus Coax > Theta DS Pro Basic II D to A converter > Monster Cable M1000i interconnects > Melos MA-333 Preamp > Transparent Music Link interconnects > Little Dot MKIII HP amp > AKG K240 Sextett later production cans circa 1981

 Some fave cuts from Cds that I love:

 T Bone Burnett “River of Love” from self titled Dot release 1986
 Great recording direct to two track. All acoustic. Exceptionally natural sound on a good system

 Lou Reed “Hang on to Your Emotions” from Set the Twilight Reeling 1996
 Lou used some awesome Soldano Custom tube guitar amps for this recording. Love Fernando Saunder’s fretless bass lines here.

 Beck “Loser” from Mellow Gold 1994
 Subterranean bass, interesting studio effects, a head banging demo piece.

 Lucinda Williams “Fruits of My Labor” from World Without Tears 2003
 The drummer uses brush sticks and the textures are quite a challenge to get just right. Rich bass.

 I installed the original tubes and let the amp warm up for 20min., played the four songs, switched to the Mullards and waited 10 minutes, repeat, Amperex, repeat, then repeated the whole business a second time.

 There are differences in the three tubes, but for every characteristic I’ll describe here, you could preface each adjective with the words “subtly” or “very subtly”. I wrote down notes while listening and what follows is a pretty simple laundry list.

 The stock tubes. I thought the amp sounded darn good right out of the box. It did improve after break-in. Now, revisiting the stock tubes, I find I’d be happy to live with them indefinitely.

 Great clarity, good balance, clean, acoustic guitar has sparkle, spacious air in the highs, very clean sound. You could mistake this amp as being solid state. Bass is a bit leaner than the others in weight and depth. Sound stage is flatter, vocals and instruments are more forward.

 Mullards. Fuller bass, Beck intro goes deeper, Vocals less in face, full sounding in general. Slightly softened attack on tom/snare, fuzzier detail or slight veiling, textures not quite as clear.

 Amperex. Vocal similar in depth to Mullard but cleaner, bass line very clear, Beck intro still deep, Beck’s voice less “canned” sounding, Highs have air but not forward sounding. Maybe a touch soft in a euphonic way. Great texture to brush drum sounds. Good warmth.

 So for me the winner here is the Amperex. Between the stock GE’s and the Mullards, I’d call it a toss up. You give up some clarity for more bass with the Mullards. The Amperex seem to combine the other two’s strengths without their short comings.

 Now I’d like to hear what others say about non-EF95 series options.

 Enjoy the tunes,

 E"


----------



## Shizdan

What mullards should i get off ebay


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What mullards should i get off ebay_

 

I LOVE my M8161 (EF92) Mullards. I've bought quite a few tubes (too many) and I keep coming back to these. Yenaudio on ebay usually has a matched pair for sale. You can try to contact him/them if there isn't one listed currently. He can be a bit pricey, especially for sought-after tubes, but always top notch quality (and matched).


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I LOVE my M8161 (EF92) Mullards. I've bought quite a few tubes (too many) and I keep coming back to these. Yenaudio on ebay usually has a matched pair for sale. You can try to contact him/them if there isn't one listed currently. He can be a bit pricey, especially for sought-after tubes, but always top notch quality (and matched)._

 

could you help me find some


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_could you help me find some_

 

I thought I just did? Try yenaudio on ebay - that's where I got mine.


----------



## ScottieB

Wait do you have an MKIII? Your sig only mentions MKII - I have no idea if that amp uses EF92... but if it does then nevermind...


----------



## Shizdan

These
 or
these
 or
these


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait do you have an MKIII? Your sig only mentions MKII - I have no idea if that amp uses EF92... but if it does then nevermind..._

 

yea it uses ef92 with the jumper pins shorted


----------



## ScottieB

OK - the third one - from yen... I know they're the most expensive, but from what I've read the "large shield" ones are the best - look at the images - the ones from yen have the large shield painted on them. That could be BS, I dunno - but I know someone here (in the know) has said that and those are the ones I have - they sound fantastic.


----------



## Shizdan

alright will do thanks alot.....p.s i just get the pair right....? haha im a noob let me be


----------



## ScottieB

Yep - just grab the pair.


----------



## Shizdan

k i just got em thanks for the help


----------



## sinisterm

Head-fi-bug bit me again. Just ordered Grado GS-1000's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder which tubes will sound good with them.

 --

 PS: 32 SYLVANIA TUBE JAN 5654 NOS TUBES & BOXES 1966,67,69 - eBay (item 280274171209 end time Oct-11-08 16:55:18 PDT)

 There's a nice lot for someone. Seems like they have round getters from the pictures, dunno for sure tho. Too bad he doesn't ship those over seas.

 Anyone care to buy those and resell them if they indeed are black plate / round getter?


----------



## Trapper32

Those do look like round getter/black plates.....I'll bid on them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Head-fi-bug bit me again. Just ordered Grado GS-1000's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder which tubes will sound good with them.

 --

 PS: 32 SYLVANIA TUBE JAN 5654 NOS TUBES & BOXES 1966,67,69 - eBay (item 280274171209 end time Oct-11-08 16:55:18 PDT)

 There's a nice lot for someone. Seems like they have round getters from the pictures, dunno for sure tho. Too bad he doesn't ship those over seas.

 Anyone care to buy those and resell them if they indeed are black plate / round getter? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## esirex

Some stuff i stumble upon. for power tubes....decided to get these as spare tubes. 6N6P-I ECC89 E182CC Double Triode Tubes Box Lot of 8 - eBay (item 370093187961 end time Nov-02-08 22:34:35 PST)

 For drivers
20 pcs. 6ZH1P / 6Z1P / 6AK5W / 5654 NOS - eBay (item 110296591724 end time Oct-12-08 13:18:01 PDT)

 Personally i have not try the tubes yet but with the price i its worth trying for. Both look russians to me Will give a impression for these 2 pairs of tubes once i get in and finish burning in. 20 pcs of 5654 gesh....if it really sounds good its going to last me a long time.


----------



## sonda2008

Hello Head-Fiers!

 I need your help. I'm looking for matched pair of Sylvania JAN 6AK5. Unfortunately no-one on ebay is willing to ship to Europe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does anyone know of an ebay seller or internet shop that will ship them to Ireland? For a moderate price I of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thank,
 sonda2008


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sonda2008* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Head-Fiers!
 I need your help. I'm looking for matched pair of Sylvania JAN 6AK5. Unfortunately no-one on ebay is willing to ship to Europe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Does anyone know of an ebay seller or internet shop that will ship them to Ireland? For a moderate price I of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thank,
 Jacek_

 

Check with the Yen Audio store on ebay, they typically have matched pairs for sell and is a very reputable source for Little Dot tube upgrades. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Sylvania JAN 6AK5 Little Dot Amplifier MATCHED PR EF95 - eBay (item 270284206331 end time Nov-05-08 16:24:18 PST)


----------



## sinisterm

Sylvania JHS 5654 6AK5 EF95 Matched Pair Little Dot Amp - eBay (item 300264320819 end time Oct-12-08 15:59:20 PDT)

 What's wrong with these sellers, no one willing to ship overseas. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well theres one matched pair of black plate and round halo getter Sylvania for some lucky American. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or some FRIENDLY American who could buy them, then ship them to me? I pay for everything ofcourse.


----------



## ScottieB

^ Speaking only for myself, when I sell things on eBay I don't ship overseas because it opens me to FAR more scammers and deadbeat bidders. You'd be amazed how many people from Nigeria and/or India (just to name the most common in my experience) try to rip you off and waste your time. In my experience it has simply been more trouble than it is worth (as far as making a profit is concerned). Good luck to you though!


----------



## sinisterm

ScottieB,

 Yeah good point there. Didn't think of that side at all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 --

 Hmm, found these and at least this thread doesn't have any info of em:

 Amalgamated Wireless Valve Company for US Military 6AK5/5654/6096/EF95F

 Here's some info:

 "Made in Sydney Australia with British (Mullard CV4010) design."

 "Amalgamated was formed when Telefunken and Marconi merged."

 Anyone heard them? Seems bloody cheap on Ebay (lot of 8 going on $9), and one could expect that they'd sound sweet.

 I'd give it a shot, but, yet again no international shipping.


----------



## ScottieB

^ I grabbed those a while back. They sound good - nothing great, but I wanted them so I had something just in case. Certainly good enough if that's all I had left. Def a steal for $9.


----------



## sonda2008

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check with the Yen Audio store on ebay, they typically have matched pairs for sell and is a very reputable source for Little Dot tube upgrades. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Sylvania JAN 6AK5 Little Dot Amplifier MATCHED PR EF95 - eBay (item 270284206331 end time Nov-05-08 16:24:18 PST)_

 

Thanks a million DoA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've just purchased some tubes from him/her (Yen).


----------



## eboy2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sonda2008* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks a million DoA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've just purchased some tubes from him/her (Yen)._

 

As far as I know, these are very old sylvania 6AK5 black plate big flat D-shape getter black paint print ones probably dated in late 40's early 50's. I only have one of this kind of tube and did not try it. Let us know how it sounds...


----------



## oofie810

Just after reading all 1200+ posts, David emails me saying that my MKIII was shipped today. WOOT!!!

 Now, I'm wondering, any of you guys wanna help out a fellow head-fier by selling some of your used tubes? I've spent a considerable amount of money this past two weeks (hd650, zero and MKIII), but I'd still like to try out tube rolling. So maybe some of you guys have several tubes and would like to sell a used pair or two, please let me know. TIA!

 Ron


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now, I'm wondering, any of you guys wanna help out a fellow head-fier by selling some of your used tubes?_

 

Hey,

 These are very nice tubes, and I really doubt any head-fier could sell em cheaper than this.

6Zh1P-EV/6J1P-EV/EF95/6F32/6AK7 VOSHOD! NOS! Tested! #4 - eBay (item 130261307940 end time Oct-14-08 23:20:00 PDT)

 Grats on your toys!


----------



## One Fan To Another

Hmm, I'm having an odd problem with my Electro-Harmonics 6H30Pi tubes in my Little Dot III amp (I've done the necessary mod to use these tubes in that amp properly).

 Before doing the mod I slapped the EH tubes in the amp just to see that they worked at all. They did but I noticed that after 10 minutes or so - enough time for the tubes to get fully hot - on side (meaning only one of the two tubes) dipped in volume. So, one side stayed at the same volume while the other went down in volume and stayed there without fluctuation. I immediately turned off the amp believing the problem stemmed from the lack of the mod.

 After performing the mod the problem did NOT change. It seemed to take a lot longer for the one side to go down in volume but eventually it did. I switched the tubes around to each other's slot to make sure it wasn't the amp but afterward the problem was gone... for quiet a while - maybe two weeks or so.

 But now, for whatever reason the problem is back permanently (the tube doesn't even need to warm up to be lower in volume).

 Worst of all now looking at the faulty tube I see that it is VERY red - as in red hot! The black plates in the center of the good tube are black and dark as normal but the other tube's plated are almost glowing red.

 Anyone know what the holy hell is going on?


----------



## eboy2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *One Fan To Another* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, I'm having an odd problem with my Electro-Harmonics 6H30Pi tubes in my Little Dot III amp (I've done the necessary mod to use these tubes in that amp properly).

 Before doing the mod I slapped the EH tubes in the amp just to see that they worked at all. They did but I noticed that after 10 minutes or so - enough time for the tubes to get fully hot - on side (meaning only one of the two tubes) dipped in volume. So, one side stayed at the same volume while the other went down in volume and stayed there without fluctuation. I immediately turned off the amp believing the problem stemmed from the lack of the mod.

 After performing the mod the problem did NOT change. It seemed to take a lot longer for the one side to go down in volume but eventually it did. I switched the tubes around to each other's slot to make sure it wasn't the amp but afterward the problem was gone... for quiet a while - maybe two weeks or so.

 But now, for whatever reason the problem is back permanently (the tube doesn't even need to warm up to be lower in volume).

 Worst of all now looking at the faulty tube I see that it is VERY red - as in red hot! The black plates in the center of the good tube are black and dark as normal but the other tube's plated are almost glowing red.

 Anyone know what the holy hell is going on?_

 

That's one tube gone bad. I had similar issue before, even I didn't try the 6H30Pi-EH before the resistor mod. One tube output volume start dropping and distorting after one minute or so, and I can feel that tube is a lot hotter than the other. I have oscilloscope hooked to the output with 300ohm resistor as load for testing and I can clearly see the output voltage dropping on the bad tube. Luckily I purchased from Yen and he is kind enough to allow me exchange for another set even I just passed the 30-day warranty period. He is my favorite tube source for ever.


----------



## Sparky14

Man, I just ordered a LD MkIII....do I have to read all 1300 posts in this thread before I plug it in?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sparky14* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man, I just ordered a LD MkIII....do I have to read all 1300 posts in this thread before I plug it in?




_

 

Yes and you have to read the Little Dot MKIII review thread and the Zero review thread as well. I wouldn dare turn it on otherwise.


----------



## Alpha 1 Omega

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes and you have to read the Little Dot MKIII review thread and the Zero review thread as well. I wouldn dare turn it on otherwise._

 

LOL


----------



## esirex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *esirex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some stuff i stumble upon. for power tubes....decided to get these as spare tubes. 6N6P-I ECC89 E182CC Double Triode Tubes Box Lot of 8 - eBay (item 370093187961 end time Nov-02-08 22:34:35 PST)

 For drivers
20 pcs. 6ZH1P / 6Z1P / 6AK5W / 5654 NOS - eBay (item 110296591724 end time Oct-12-08 13:18:01 PDT)

 Personally i have not try the tubes yet but with the price i its worth trying for. Both look russians to me Will give a impression for these 2 pairs of tubes once i get in and finish burning in. 20 pcs of 5654 gesh....if it really sounds good its going to last me a long time._

 

Both items have reached my door steps with good packing and delivery is amazingly fast. Apparently the power tubes have somehow improve the sound and the staging seems wider.

 As for the driver tubes, 20 voshod tubes. Not the EB yen audio is selling. Yet to try it but will give a good feedback once i compare the difference the EB and the one i got.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *esirex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Both items have reached my door steps with good packing and delivery is amazingly fast. Apparently the power tubes have somehow improve the sound and the staging seems wider.

 As for the driver tubes, 20 voshod tubes. Not the EB yen audio is selling. Yet to try it but will give a good feedback once i compare the difference the EB and the one i got._

 

Don't forget to mature them (45hours or so) before critical evaluation. Some tubes change a little, some change a large amount. Once they are mature and stable, evaluating them becomes much easier because you can repeat the listening session as many times as you want, and the results are always the same. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Differences between tubes becomes clearer and more easily explainable.

 Gotta love those NOS tubes. So addictive, you must buy more! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't had so much fun with audio in a long time. Who would have ever thought, you could have tubes for different moods. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a reference set of tubes I use every day (Sylvania 5654's Round Getter, Black Plates), but sometimes I roll in a set of Mullard M8161's or Amperex EF92's, just to savor the difference. The whole concept of tube rolling is just so cool, and never boring. IMHO of course.


----------



## jordanross

I removed my tubes before they cooled down, what are the consequences of my stupidity?


----------



## esirex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't forget to mature them (45hours or so) before critical evaluation. Some tubes change a little, some change a large amount. Once they are mature and stable, evaluating them becomes much easier because you can repeat the listening session as many times as you want, and the results are always the same. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Differences between tubes becomes clearer and more easily explainable._

 

Thats true Penchum. The power tubes sounds very sharp after 4hrs of listening. But seems to tone down after the 10th hour.


----------



## esirex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *esirex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats true Penchum. The power tubes sounds very sharp after 4hrs of listening. But seems to tone down after the 10th hour._

 


 Just put in the new tubes I got. 16 hrs on power tubes and fresh for the new voshod tubes. I have got instant hair raising experience which i never had on my MS2. The low, mid and high suddenly just came alive on my MS2. The jingles and the bass suddenly become so alive. The bass is more controlled and it travels. I dont know why but it really sounds better then the voshod EB and the tungsol i got.

 Now for the loud speakers which i hook my mk3 to my power amp. Staging has improved drastically and all the low, mid and high is so much clearer then the tungsol and the voshod EB. 

 I must say worth every penny spent....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now like Pehchum said...45hours for critical evaluation.


----------



## jordanross

Anyone have any advice for my above post? ^


----------



## esirex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jordanross* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have any advice for my above post? ^_

 


 Shouldnt have much problem....if the tubes are not that hot.


----------



## Alpha 1 Omega

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jordanross* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have any advice for my above post? ^_

 

burnt fingers LOL

 only thing I can think of possible discharge from capacitors through tube pins.


----------



## jordanross

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alpha 1 Omega* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_burnt fingers LOL

 only thing I can think of possible discharge from capacitors through tube pins._

 

I thought of that, I hope I didn't mess anything up.


----------



## Maxvla

Quick question before I pull the trigger on a MKIII with the eBay 30% MSN thing.

 Firstly, I am fairly sure, but this amp will mate with my HD580s pretty well, right? I will mostly be using 580s for jazz, classical, and vocal works, lighter styles, which I've heard tube amps excel at.

 Secondly, as this is the tube rolling thread, would you guys suggest any immediate tube upgrades so I can get them at the same time? This will be my first tube amp. (Nothing super expensive please)


----------



## One Fan To Another

^It seems pretty universally recommended that with the MKII, at least at some point, you try the Mullard M8161 driver tubes. So, getting them right off the bat may be a good idea.

 Then again if you don't start with the stock tubes how will you be able to understand how much better "upgraded" tubes are?

 EDIT: Woops, I meant to type "...universally recommended that with the _*MKIII*_..." not MKII.


----------



## Maxvla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *One Fan To Another* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^It seems pretty universally recommended that with the MKII, at least at some point, you try the Mullard M8161 driver tubes. So, getting them right off the bat may be a good idea.

 Then again if you don't start with the stock tubes how will you be able to understand how much better "upgraded" tubes are?_

 

If it indeed is universal that most upgrade to them, I shouldn't need to know how the stock ones sound, though I'm sure I would try them anyways.


----------



## One Fan To Another

^Don't worry too much about the power tubes right away, though. I'm kinda' leaning toward liking the stock tubes over my EH 6H30Pi Gold tubes (which are "supposed" to be the best). It may just be that the Golds aren't burned in fully yet, like I had the stock ones, but the Golds have seems to take out a certain amount of bass... which I needed with my AKG K701s.


----------



## Maxvla

Ok I guess I'll just go with stock and see what how I want to tweak it as I go. Thanks.


----------



## oofie810

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey,

 These are very nice tubes, and I really doubt any head-fier could sell em cheaper than this.

6Zh1P-EV/6J1P-EV/EF95/6F32/6AK7 VOSHOD! NOS! Tested! #4 - eBay (item 130261307940 end time Oct-14-08 23:20:00 PDT)

 Grats on your toys! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I actually just missed that by a couple of hours but I see that he's still selling those. I will buy them now. Thanks!

 BTW, I think I have to start logging out and closing my head-fi windows after I get these. My wallet has taken a fairly good beating for the last 3 weeks.


----------



## One Fan To Another

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maxvla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok I guess I'll just go with stock and see what how I want to tweak it as I go. Thanks._

 

Don't mix up what I mean about the power tubes and driver tubes, though. The M8161 _driver_ tubes are a must try, as they say, but the _power_ tubes are the ones that I would personally leave stock, for now.

 Just so we're on the same page


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Don't forget that to run the 6H30P-i gold pins, DR's or the Sovtek's, the grid resistors (1 for each power tube) have to be changed from 63 ohm to 120 or 121 ohm 1 watt or better rating (I used 121 ohm Kiwame 2 watt). 

 This isn't an option for the 6H30P-I tubes, it's a requirement.

 The stock family of 6N6P and 6N6P-I power tubes are the only types that can be used unless you take apart the MK III and swap out those resistors.

 That task is not easy due to the tight confines of the chassis.

 The best version of 6N6P-I are those from the Novosibirsk plant made in the early 70's. I believe Yen Audio has matched pairs of this type although I'm not sure what plant his are from. They are NOS tubes no doubt as they went out of production decades ago.

 Peete.


----------



## esirex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually just missed that by a couple of hours but I see that he's still selling those. I will buy them now. Thanks!

 BTW, I think I have to start logging out and closing my head-fi windows after I get these. My wallet has taken a fairly good beating for the last 3 weeks.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

20 pcs. 6ZH1P / 6Z1P / 6AK5W / 5654 NOS - eBay (item 110296591724 end time Oct-12-08 13:18:01 PDT)

 These are voshod tubes but they are unmatch....but i must say they sound much better then the voshod i got from yen audio. And surprisingly it sound better then the tungsol too.


----------



## bernado

Anyone in Europe looking for some good tubes might want to check out this supplier - 
MATCHED PAIR-EF92-CV131-6CQ6-TELEFUNKEN-NOS-LITTLE DOT bei eBay.de: RÃ¶hren (endet 31.10.08 20:16:58 MEZ)

 I bought some matched Telefunken EF92s and power tubes from this guy. Sound better than some previous Mullards I had (although these are supposedly also Mullard made). They sound really good with HD650s and give it some nice bass punch. I had one tube become imballanced which was changed without any fuss.


----------



## JimSmiley

Love the EF92/6CQ6/CV131--my favorite drivers hands down!!


----------



## jordanross

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *esirex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_20 pcs. 6ZH1P / 6Z1P / 6AK5W / 5654 NOS - eBay (item 110296591724 end time Oct-12-08 13:18:01 PDT)

 These are voshod tubes but they are unmatch....but i must say they sound much better then the voshod i got from yen audio. And surprisingly it sound better then the tungsol too._

 

That is ridiculous there must be something wrong with them... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How can he sell 200 tubes for $8. That is a great deal if they actually sound as good as you say.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jordanross* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is ridiculous there must be something wrong with them... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How can he sell 200 tubes for $8. That is a great deal if they actually sound as good as you say._

 

It's 20 pcs not 200.

 Peete.


----------



## tonKopf

My Mk III has just arrived. It only took one week. I am impressed. 
 It's burning in as I type. 
 I believe Penchum mentioned earlier somewhere in the thread on how to use it as a pre-amp, but I couldn't find the earlier post again. I've never owned a pre-amp, so I am not sure how to connect it to my Yamaha receiver. What inputs are Ok to use?

 Thanks


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tonKopf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Mk III has just arrived. It only took one week. I am impressed. 
 It's burning in as I type. 
 I believe Penchum mentioned earlier somewhere in the thread on how to use it as a pre-amp, but I couldn't find the earlier post again. I've never owned a pre-amp, so I am not sure how to connect it to my Yamaha receiver. What inputs are Ok to use?

 Thanks_

 

Hey TK,

 I talked about it over here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...1/index57.html in the MKIVse thread.

 After reading the two posts about it there, if you have questions, PM me and I'll explain even further. I really is easy.


----------



## eboy2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eboy2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's one tube gone bad. I had similar issue before, even I didn't try the 6H30Pi-EH before the resistor mod. One tube output volume start dropping and distorting after one minute or so, and I can feel that tube is a lot hotter than the other. I have oscilloscope hooked to the output with 300ohm resistor as load for testing and I can clearly see the output voltage dropping on the bad tube. Luckily I purchased from Yen and he is kind enough to allow me exchange for another set even I just passed the 30-day warranty period. He is my favorite tube source for ever._

 

Is 6H30Pi-EH very fragile? One of my 6H30Pi died again. The plate turns to dark red and overheats within a minute, then distorting and output voltage drops quickly.

 It happens after I switch my Sylvania 6AK5 to Mullard M8161 on MK IV. I did not wait for the tubes to cool down and changed the driver tubes and installed jumpers. Now one 6H30Pi-EH tube is gone bad permanently, I tried it on both LD MK IV and MK III (with resistor mod), the problem persists even without any load.

 I can eat the loss and buy another pair from yen, or maybe consider buy a pair of DRs, but I want to know anyone else had similar problems? The original Sovtek 6H30 on MK IV seems more robust. Physically the EH tube looks just fine. How can I further test it to figure out really what goes wrong? I have a B&K 700 tube tester but there is no settings for 6H30, I use 6DJ8 settings to test 6H30 per someone suggest it here, but the tube seems testing fine, and the plate does not turn dark-red after a minute. I suspect it's the heater voltage...

*follow up:* I add on a 9-pin tube test socket and measured the heater voltage of LD MK 3 and MK 4. The voltage starts at 7.0V AC and then slowly drop to 6.8V AC. A little bit high but seems still within the limit. 6H30 spec says heater voltage 6.3 +/- 0.9V. Still don't know what went wrong for my 6H30Pi-EH.


----------



## yamadog1998

I just received a set of matched nos mullard m8161 today,how ever they will not work in my LD MK 111.What do i have to do to make these work as drivers?I don't know much about tube rolling,Should i have got the m8100?Any and all help is needed,Thank's.

 I Should note This Amp works With The tubes it came with.Also The Mullards Light up and can get a faint sound when volume is at full.The settings need to be changed i assume,How do you do that?I Have Tried moving the red switches under the unit,but have no result.

 I Just Fixed The Problem With A Set Of Jumper Caps.As far as the Mullards go,All i can say is WOW! The ones i put in were NOS,And i can't believe the improvment.Can't wait to get these baby's burned in.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yamadog1998* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received a set of matched nos mullard m8161 today,how ever they will not work in my LD MK 111.What do i have to do to make these work as drivers?I don't know much about tube rolling,Should i have got the m8100?Any and all help is needed,Thank's.

 I Should note This Amp works With The tubes it came with.Also The Mullards Light up and can get a faint sound when volume is at full.The settings need to be changed i assume,How do you do that?I Have Tried moving the red switches under the unit,but have no result._

 

You need to change the jumpers - those are EF92 tubes. Check the manual. If your unit is newer, there will be two switches, also on the bottom, but nearer the middle of the unit. They will be black switches (the red ones are the gain switches, those are set based on the impedance of the headphones you are using). If your unit is an older one, you will have to put jumpers on (like on a hard drive). It is all in the manual.


----------



## eboy2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eboy2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*follow up:* I add on a 9-pin tube test socket and measured the heater voltage of LD MK 3 and MK 4. The voltage starts at 7.0V AC and then slowly drop to 6.8V AC. A little bit high but seems still within the limit. 6H30 spec says heater voltage 6.3 +/- 0.9V. Still don't know what went wrong for my 6H30Pi-EH._

 

US 110V version MK III and MK IV users be aware. Please check your local AC voltage with a true RMS multimeter. I have confirmed with Mr. Yang that the US version is designed for 110V AC, given 120V AC (in my case, it's 122V AC) will adds 10% more on heater voltage and reduce the tube life drastically. He suggest put a 1ohm 1w resistor in series for each tube.


----------



## sinisterm

Finally got Mullard EF92 (M8161, large shield). OOB they sound, hmm, harsh, I'll tell my impressions after they get some hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone noticed that with EF92 you need to turn volume knob ~5 lines louder to get same sound level as with EF95's? :O


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally got Mullard EF92 (M8161, large shield). OOB they sound, hmm, harsh, I'll tell my impressions after they get some hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone noticed that with EF92 you need to turn volume knob ~5 lines louder to get same sound level as with EF95's? :O_

 

That's not the case with mine (either of the things you mentioned) - you sure the jumpers are set properly?


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's not the case with mine (either of the things you mentioned) - you sure the jumpers are set properly?_

 

Yeah they are (what a pain in the **** were they to put on, had to use two screwdrivers like chinese eatingsticks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I didn't mean the harshness as in distortion or anything like that, they just sound harsh, like almost every NOS tube out-of-box I have heard.


----------



## NikZ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally got Mullard EF92 (M8161, large shield). OOB they sound, hmm, harsh, I'll tell my impressions after they get some hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Anyone noticed that with EF92 you need to turn volume knob ~5 lines louder to get same sound level as with EF95's? :O_

 

My M8161s did that , too.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah they are (what a pain in the **** were they to put on, had to use two screwdrivers like chinese eatingsticks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I didn't mean the harshness as in distortion or anything like that, they just sound harsh, like almost every NOS tube out-of-box I have heard. _

 

Man that IS a pain - I consider myself very lucky I got one with switches instead of jumpers (and even still I sometimes think twice about switching btwn EF92 and EF95 - man I'm lazy)! 

 Anyway the harshness isn't all that surprising - give them some time and they should smooth out. But the volume knob isn't something I've noticed... but there's lots of stuff I don't notice when I'm busy rockin out head-fi style


----------



## yamadog1998

Now that the Mullard m8161's are in and working,Does anyone have a suggestion on some good Power tubes.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eboy2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_US 110V version MK III and MK IV users be aware. Please check your local AC voltage with a true RMS multimeter. I have confirmed with Mr. Yang that the US version is designed for 110V AC, given 120V AC (in my case, it's 122V AC) will adds 10% more on heater voltage and reduce the tube life drastically. He suggest put a 1ohm 1w resistor in series for each tube._

 

If you could take pics of the retrofit of these resistors that would be a valuable resource indeed.

 In my neck of the woods 127V AC is the norm...so this is a must do mod for me.

 Which pin for each tube if you can't take pics please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the info eBoy2003,

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah they are (what a pain in the **** were they to put on, had to use two screwdrivers like chinese eatingsticks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I didn't mean the harshness as in distortion or anything like that, they just sound harsh, like almost every NOS tube out-of-box I have heard. _

 

Use a toothpick next time, either crazy glued in or wedged into the middle or edge of jumper...works like a charm.

 Peete.


----------



## eboy2003

All right, I've done mod for my MK IV. MK III mod will be similar. Folks, this is a *must* mod especially for MK IV SE users here in US, otherwise, you will run risk of burn out 6H30Pi-EH like mine does. MK III and MK IV runs power tube heater *unregulated AC* straight from toroidal transformer!!! Lots of forum actually recommend 6.2V heater voltage for 6H30Pi, too high heater voltage will reduce its life drastically.

 Unfortunately my burn-out 6H30Pi-EH did not recover at the lower heater voltage, it's gone for ever. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here are the mod photos:

 1. Pull out the board, the heater voltage line (white) are directly soldered to the 9-pin socket. 





 2. Solder a 1ohm 2W resistor in series. Mr. Yang recommend 1ohm 1W, but 6H30Pi heater eats ~800mA current, it's better to have some leeway for this resistor. Also Mr. Yang said matching is not necessary, but I matched those resistors anyway. Make sure you leave some space from the resistor to board, this resistor will run hot! And don't let it short anything, use heat shrink to protect all naked wires and solder joints.





 3. After mod, test the heater voltage of the power tube, use a true RMS multimeter to measure AC voltage between pin 4 and pin 5. It used to be start 7.0V, and slowly drop to 6.8-6.9V. Now with this mod, it starts from ~5V, and slowly climb to 6.3-6.4V, because cold heater has smaller resistor than fully heated one, this mod also serves soft start functionality. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Picture here shows the heater voltage for regular Sovtek 6H30 after the mod, EH 6H30Pi is a little bit lower at 6.325V.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eboy2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All right, I've done mod for my MK IV. MK III mod will be similar. Folks, this is a *must* mod especially for MK IV SE users here in US, otherwise, you will run risk of burn out 6H30Pi-EH like mine does. MK III and MK IV runs power tube heater *unregulated AC* straight from toroidal transformer!!! Lots of forum actually recommend 6.2V heater voltage for 6H30Pi, too high heater voltage will reduce its life drastically.

 Unfortunately my burn-out 6H30Pi-EH did not recover at the lower heater voltage, it's gone for ever. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here are the mod photos:

 1. Pull out the board, the heater voltage line (white) are directly soldered to the 9-pin socket. 
 snip

 2. Solder a 1ohm 2W resistor in series. Mr. Yang recommend 1ohm 1W, but 6H30Pi heater eats ~800mA current, it's better to have some leeway for this resistor. Also Mr. Yang said matching is not necessary, but I matched those resistors anyway. Make sure you leave some space from the resistor to board, this resistor will run hot! And don't let it short anything, use heat shrink to protect all naked wires and solder joints.
 snip

 3. After mod, test the heater voltage of the power tube, use a true RMS multimeter to measure AC voltage between pin 4 and pin 5. It used to be start 7.0V, and slowly drop to 6.8-6.9V. Now with this mod, it starts from ~5V, and slowly climb to 6.3-6.4V, because cold heater has smaller resistor than fully heated one, this mod also serves soft start functionality. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Picture here shows the heater voltage for regular Sovtek 6H30 after the mod, EH 6H30Pi is a little bit lower at 6.325V.
 snip_

 

Sorry, I have to ask the obvious question: If this mod only lowers the final operating voltage by .675V, is that enough to really make a difference on longevity? Thanks!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks eBoy,

 Yes Pench that added voltage will shorten the life of the tubes. I know it doesn't seem like much but the AC line voltage where I am has me concerned about my one and only pair of DR's.

 It could knock as much as 50% off the life of the DR's. Have a look at some articles on the issue. 127V AC here is the norm and is way to high for my liking ...I think eBoy's suggestion of 2W is a very good (minimum) uprating in this case.

 The additional side benefit as eBoy says is a soft start feature and likely a little less overall heat from the amp although I cannot say for sure at this point.

 At any rate it gives me an excuse to finish the coupling cap mod (with those wonderful 2.2uf 250V K75-10 PLIO's I have sitting here ) 

 In light of this development Pench you can also add these resistors when you receive your parts for your cap upgrade to your MK IV SE. 

 The resistor mod will have no effect on the SQ of the amps. 

 Peete.


----------



## glitch39

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yamadog1998* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now that the Mullard m8161's are in and working,Does anyone have a suggestion on some good Power tubes._

 

6H30P-DR. 

 I know it's expensive, but if you want to take it to the very end of the MK's upgrade chain...


----------



## yamadog1998

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6H30P-DR. 

 I know it's expensive, but if you want to take it to the very end of the MK's upgrade chain..._

 


 The Only 6H30P That I Can Find Are The 6H30P-SOV And The 6H30PI-EH G Will These Work In The LD MK111? And What Is The Difference Between The DR's And These? Thank You For The Help.I Also Found Sovtek 6H30Pi Which Are currently Being made In Russia.Which Retail For Around $20.


----------



## eboy2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks eBoy,

 Yes Pench that added voltage will shorten the life of the tubes. I know it doesn't seem like much but the AC line voltage where I am has me concerned about my one and only pair of DR's.

 It could knock as much as 50% off the life of the DR's. Have a look at some articles on the issue. 127V AC here is the norm and is way to high for my liking ...I think eBoy's suggestion of 2W is a very good (minimum) uprating in this case.

 The additional side benefit as eBoy says is a soft start feature and likely a little less overall heat from the amp although I cannot say for sure at this point.

 At any rate it gives me an excuse to finish the coupling cap mod (with those wonderful 2.2uf 250V K75-10 PLIO's I have sitting here ) 

 In light of this development Pench you can also add these resistors when you receive your parts for your cap upgrade to your MK IV SE. 

 The resistor mod will have no effect on the SQ of the amps. 

 Peete._

 

I have my modded MK IV run overnight and it indeed produces much less heat than before. Sound wise no difference, after all, 6.3V heater voltage is the rated voltage for these tubes.

 Depends on your normal AC line voltage, you may experiment with different value of resistors such as 0.9ohm, 1ohm, 1.1ohm, 1.2ohm, but 1ohm probably the easiest value to get.

 I just wish I troubleshoot this earlier when the first 6H30Pi-EH burned out. Now with two 6H30Pi-EH burned out, I probably will direct go for a pair of DR and leave the stock Sovtek 6H30Pi-EB from MK IV to my modded MK III.

*Peete*: please let us know how the K75-10 sounds. My MK IV non SE has crappy Phoenix capacitors, I'm looking forward to replace that.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eboy2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have my modded MK IV run overnight and it indeed produces much less heat than before. Sound wise no difference, after all, 6.3V heater voltage is the rated voltage for these tubes.

 Depends on your normal AC line voltage, you may experiment with different value of resistors such as 0.9ohm, 1ohm, 1.1ohm, 1.2ohm, but 1ohm probably the easiest value to get.

 I just wish I troubleshoot this earlier when the first 6H30Pi-EH burned out. Now with two 6H30Pi-EH burned out, I probably will direct go for a pair of DR and leave the stock Sovtek 6H30Pi-EB from MK IV to my modded MK III.

*Peete*: please let us know how the K75-10 sounds. My MK IV non SE has crappy Phoenix capacitors, I'm looking forward to replace that._

 


 Hi eBoy,

 Thanks for the tips and feedback. I'll be heading to the local Rat Shack and see what they have in metal films in the next couple of days (finish the mod on the MK III this weekend).

 So far the K75-10's bypassed with Teflon's are impressive (in my MC-7R all tube preamp). It was a major overhaul.

 Heres a pic showing the cap array.......the 4 large green bastards are 1 uf 500V K75-10's PLIO's. The rest are all pure Teflons.











 Peete.


----------



## eboy2003

Wow. That's impressive. But I'm not sure whether MK IV will have enough space to fit for this many caps. I'm currently thinking of using sonicap gen 1 from sonicraft. They got good review in cap notes. I tried them in my DIY 2 x AD1955 DAC and they sounds fairly neutral. Anyone has experience with this cap?

 Will also try some K75-10 and sprague paper-in-oil caps...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks eBoy,

 Yes Pench that added voltage will shorten the life of the tubes. I know it doesn't seem like much but the AC line voltage where I am has me concerned about my one and only pair of DR's.

 It could knock as much as 50% off the life of the DR's. Have a look at some articles on the issue. 127V AC here is the norm and is way to high for my liking ...I think eBoy's suggestion of 2W is a very good (minimum) uprating in this case.

 The additional side benefit as eBoy says is a soft start feature and likely a little less overall heat from the amp although I cannot say for sure at this point.

 At any rate it gives me an excuse to finish the coupling cap mod (with those wonderful 2.2uf 250V K75-10 PLIO's I have sitting here ) 

 In light of this development Pench you can also add these resistors when you receive your parts for your cap upgrade to your MK IV SE. 

 The resistor mod will have no effect on the SQ of the amps. 

 Peete._

 

Well, in that case, I'll have to look closely at my other two amps, to see if they need them as well. Not a problem, just one or more things for the pile in front of me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jezz PP, I feel like I should call up the Roto-rooter man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, and on a side note, I bent a credit card and purchased a new amp for my mini-system, the Audio Source AMP-100. Amazon for $79 and free ship. I just couldn't pass it up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll drive it with my Yamaha pre-amp, with FrankenZero sourcing and the MKIII and MKIVse hanging off of tape 1 & 2. I'm going to pull the Super-T amp and look it over seriously for some upgrades/mods. Once my speakers matured, the Super-T was struggling to drive them properly.


----------



## sinisterm

eboy2003,

 Do you think this could affect on 220V (europe) voltages too? I'm sure that my house has kinda slobby voltage output.

 ----

 These M8161 sure sound great, but they don't mate with GS1K's that well. 

 BTW, I think I'm gonna put my amp(s) (2x MKIII EU version) + all my tubes for sale in a ~month, anyone interested here? You can check my tubes from my profile.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_eboy2003,

 Do you think this could affect on 220V (europe) voltages too? I'm sure that my house has kinda slobby voltage output.

 ----

 These M8161 sure sound great, but they don't mate with GS1K's that well. 

 BTW, I think I'm gonna put my amp(s) (2x MKIII EU version) + all my tubes for sale in a ~month, anyone interested here? You can check my tubes from my profile._

 

I'd be interested in your Tung Sols...


----------



## Mike_TNT

I'd take those 8100s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 BTW, it might have been discussed but I just ordered some Siemens 6AK5W
 from Hi-Fi Tubes.

 Anyone tried them?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_eboy2003,

 Do you think this could affect on 220V (europe) voltages too? I'm sure that my house has kinda slobby voltage output.

 ----

 These M8161 sure sound great, but they don't mate with GS1K's that well. 

 BTW, I think I'm gonna put my amp(s) (2x MKIII EU version) + all my tubes for sale in a ~month, anyone interested here? You can check my tubes from my profile._


----------



## twc5964

Eboy,
 Just want to clarify the 1ohm resistor mod also applies to the MKIII and you attach it just like in your photos for the MKIV ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, in that case, I'll have to look closely at my other two amps, to see if they need them as well. Not a problem, just one or more things for the pile in front of me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jezz PP, I feel like I should call up the Roto-rooter man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, and on a side note, I bent a credit card and purchased a new amp for my mini-system, the Audio Source AMP-100. Amazon for $79 and free ship. I just couldn't pass it up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll drive it with my Yamaha pre-amp, with FrankenZero sourcing and the MKIII and MKIVse hanging off of tape 1 & 2. I'm going to pull the Super-T amp and look it over seriously for some upgrades/mods. Once my speakers matured, the Super-T was struggling to drive them properly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wait until you get that giant sack of goodies I sent you....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was worried from day one with the line voltage being always at 126+ here.....eBoy confirming the unregulated heater voltage being out of spec...well that means a tube eater in the making....I blew through 2 sets of 6N6P-I's without really thinking to much about it....until the DR's came along (Thanks Pench for emptying my wallet of a further 170US 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) Just kidding...I love these DR's......I'm glad eBoy posted his findings ...THANKS brother !!!

 I have an AudioSource Rarity....it wasn't ever supposed to be sold......I have 2 hybrid Tripath class A class A/B Amp 6.3's. 150 W per channel 250 bridged mono. They are sitting here waiting for a pair of worthy near field monitors (that I will build since I can't afford a real set) on the comp desk.

 That little beauty you picked up isn't a half bad amp....you can guess what I'm going to say next right ?


 Send me an internal shot when you get it.....as well as the T-Amp...and see what the elves at FrankenWORKS can come up with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats on the solid score...isn't that amp 50 W RMS ? I forget.


 Peete.


----------



## eboy2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *twc5964* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Eboy,
 Just want to clarify the 1ohm resistor mod also applies to the MKIII and you attach it just like in your photos for the MKIV ?_

 

Yes, this applies to MK III as well, although for MK III the board is more tight fit and harder to take out. I will post new photos when I mod my MK III this weekend.


----------



## twc5964

Thanks,I had no idea about this.....will definitely check into getting the proper resistors and doing this soon.


----------



## tonKopf

How long should driver/power tubes last under optimal circumstances given an average of 4 hours usage each day?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tonKopf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long should driver/power tubes last under optimal circumstances given an average of 4 hours usage each day?_

 

Depends on the tube...if it's mil spec or consumer level and the amp using them....on average I would say between 1000 to 5000 hours for some types and the top shelf mil spec stuff 5000 to 10,000 hours under ideal circumstances. Too many variables to list to make a general statement of course. I always knock about 30% off max hours for a good ballpark figure.

 I've had NOS tubes last 2 years + and others less than 30 days....no way to know for sure.

 Peete.


----------



## tonKopf

Hm ... that's disappointing. I would have expected (hoped for) a longer life expectancy. This makes the aforementioned mod almost a requirement.
 I almost think this should be addressed at the time of production and really is a engineering flaw. Am I too harsh?


----------



## oofie810

Anyone know where I can get the power tubes for a stock mkIII? I've had my amp for about 2 weeks now, but I just want to stock up on the items that can go wrong.

 Edit: Is this what I'm supposed to be looking for?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ECC99-E182CC-6N6...3286.m20.l1116


----------



## tonKopf

_"Mike_TNT

 BTW, it might have been discussed but I just ordered some Siemens 6AK5W
 from Hi-Fi Tubes.

 Anyone tried them?"_


 I don't think these have been discussed here before, but I would be interested in your feedback on how they compare to the stock tubes and to the 6Zh1P-EV.

 Thanks


----------



## tonKopf

Currently on sale at ebay.

 They've received some positive feedback (the tubes, not the seller) here.


----------



## Penchum

I've found these on ebay, and they are the real deal!! BIN is a decent price, so if anyone is looking for matched Sylvania 5654's with round getters and black plates, this set seems like a good deal, but it ends in 5 hours or so:

Sylvania JHS 5654 6AK5 EF95 Matched Pair Little Dot Amp - eBay (item 300268826725 end time Nov-01-08 15:52:15 PDT)

 I have two pairs of the exact same tubes, and they are my favorite driver tubes for my MKIII and MKII.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah the jumpers are (what a pain in the **** were they to put on, had to use two screwdrivers like chinese eatingsticks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)._

 

I finally got the gold plated jumpers for my MkIII, initial impression is that they take some of the harshness out of the EF92 and EF91 families of tubes, will report back with more impressions but so far the jumpers are definitely worth the cost to get the most out of your EF92/EF91 tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://cgi.ebay.com/Jumper-Upgrade-L...d=p3286.c0.m14

 Oh yeah they are also much easier to install than the stock jumpers.

 - DoA


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've found these on ebay, and they are the real deal!! BIN is a decent price, so if anyone is looking for matched Sylvania 5654's with round getters and black plates, this set seems like a good deal, but it ends in 5 hours or so:

Sylvania JHS 5654 6AK5 EF95 Matched Pair Little Dot Amp - eBay (item 300268826725 end time Nov-01-08 15:52:15 PDT)

 I have two pairs of the exact same tubes, and they are my favorite driver tubes for my MKIII and MKII. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

they are gone!


----------



## eboy2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_they are gone!_

 

I am the seller, I have another pair of Sylvania 6AK5W black plate round halo getter, NOS military tubes on sale: Sylvania JHS 5654 6AK5 EF95 Matched Pair Little Dot Amp - eBay (item 300270669264 end time Nov-09-08 13:21:46 PST)

 Still have 2 pairs Sylvania 6AK5W and one pairs of 6AK5 available for sale, all mil-spec white box, black plate, round halo getter, matched with o'scope on my MK III. Also have a few pairs of Tung-sol JTL-6AK5W (pulls, hand picked in surplus stores, tested with tube tester and matched w/ o'scope) available. Have to sell more of my stocked tubes to fund the 6H30Pi-DR purchase. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Of course, I still keep two pairs of Sylvania for myself, on MK III and IV. They are pretty much my reference tubes when comparing to other tubes. The only thing I don't like the EF95 family is they do not have shielding like EF92 tubes, so depends on your environment, EF95 tubes may be more sensitive to EMI noise. I prefer Sylvania 6AK5W over Mullard M8161 big shield. Never get chance to try amperex bugle boy EF92, if someone have a pair to exchange, please let me know.


----------



## oofie810

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know where I can get the power tubes for a stock mkIII? I've had my amp for about 2 weeks now, but I just want to stock up on the items that can go wrong.

 Edit: Is this what I'm supposed to be looking for?
ECC99 / E182CC / 6N6P Double Triode Tubes 8 pcs. TESTED - eBay (item 250317915932 end time Nov-30-08 12:53:55 PST)_

 

Anyone?


----------



## CodeToad

Holy smokes Batman! EF92's rock!

 Don't be afraid to experiment with different types/brands. Hidden treasure all around you.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone?_

 

Go for these oofie,

 The best version you can get made in the best plant for them....

RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - eBay (item 260309202673 end time Nov-08-08 08:22:58 PST)

 This guy is a good guy to buy from as well.

 Peete.


----------



## oofie810

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Go for these oofie,

 The best version you can get made in the best plant for them....

RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - eBay (item 260309202673 end time Nov-08-08 08:22:58 PST)

 This guy is a good guy to buy from as well.

 Peete._

 

Thanks Peete, just placed my bid.


----------



## oofie810

Peete, do you know if I can use the 6N6P-I = ECC89 and the 6N6P-I = ECC99 interchangeably? I found some of the ECC99 that I can buy right away as it looks like someone would like to outbid me for the one you linked.

 Ron


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Fire an email off to that link I sent you and ask if he will sell you a lot outside of an auction. Forget about ECC99 or 89 designation...the only one you need to worry about is 6N6P-I.

 The other are near compatibles with large ? about them being used in the MK III. The only types that work 100% are what I mentioned already and the less favored, SQ wise, 6N6P.

 Peete.


----------



## oofie810

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fire an email off to that link I sent you and ask if he will sell you a lot outside of an auction. Forget about ECC99 or 89 designation...the only one you need to worry about is 6N6P-I.

 The other are near compatibles with large ? about them being used in the MK III. The only types that work 100% are what I mentioned already and the less favored, SQ wise, 6N6P.

 Peete._

 

Thanks Peete! I wasn't sure about the ecc89 and 99 stuff because after reading the Tube FAQ, it says they have different bases. Anyway, gonna email the seller now. Thanks again!

 Ron


----------



## sinisterm

Anyone know tubes which have forward mids and a bit recessed highs? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Heck, im totally broke and can't afford to change amp now and all the tubes I've tried with these new phones have flaws on some part. These M8161 really push the highs and the phones don't like it. I mean I can hear SSSSSSSSSSSSsssssssSSSSSS on every word there's a S in.


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know tubes which have forward mids and a bit recessed highs? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Heck, im totally broke and can't afford to change amp now and all the tubes I've tried with these new phones have flaws on some part. These M8161 really push the highs and the phones don't like it. I mean I can hear SSSSSSSSSSSSsssssssSSSSSS on every word there's a S in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm still burning them in but the mids have been sweet from the start.

Siemens 6ak5w


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still burning them in but the mids have been sweet from the start.

Siemens 6ak5w_

 

Thanks for the tip. I'll order a pair right away! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice to see a shop in Europe area.


----------



## punk_guy182

Where to get a pair of matched and tested Sylvania 5654 tubes with round getters and black plates?


----------



## punk_guy182

Seller confirmed it had black plates and round getters with green lettering on the glass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Sylvania JAN 6AK5 Little Dot Amplifier MATCHED PR EF95 - eBay (item 270284206331 end time Dec-05-08 16:24:18 PST)


----------



## Beta-Vidoh

Hi,

 I purchased some driver tubes from Yen Audio (Quick delivery !), checked them, work fine. So I changed back to the stock tubes.

 It was then I noticed that the right power tube was a duller orange than the left one. I only just got the amp last week and have only been burning it in for a total of 17 hours (not continuous).

 It does not seem to degrade the sound, but as this is my first tube amp, I was just wondering if I should be concerned about this?

 Oh yes, I swapped the tubes from left to right and it is the tube and not the amp.

 Thanks for any advise.


----------



## easycure

I have the same symptom, no degradation in the sound quality noticed.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beta-Vidoh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 I purchased some driver tubes from Yen Audio (Quick delivery !), checked them, work fine. So I changed back to the stock tubes.

 It was then I noticed that the right power tube was a duller orange than the left one. I only just got the amp last week and have only been burning it in for a total of 17 hours (not continuous).

 It does not seem to degrade the sound, but as this is my first tube amp, I was just wondering if I should be concerned about this?

 Oh yes, I swapped the tubes from left to right and it is the tube and not the amp.

 Thanks for any advise._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *easycure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the same symptom, no degradation in the sound quality noticed._

 

Hey Guys,

 The brightness difference is normal. It only means that one is glowing less, nothing else. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Have a good one!


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Guys,

 The brightness difference is normal. It only means that one is glowing less, nothing else. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Have a good one!_

 


 It also means that they obviously weren't matched to lumen intensity...


----------



## Beta-Vidoh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Guys,

 The brightness difference is normal. It only means that one is glowing less, nothing else. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Have a good one!_

 

Ok thanks, good to know.


----------



## raekwonse

I think I'm maybe halfway through burning in my Little Dot MKIII and it sounds great so far. However, I was looking for some new driver tubes that would work the best with female vocals.

 Also, I already have a set of M8100s on the way. Are those good enough or can I do better? Thanks!


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *raekwonse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I'm maybe halfway through burning in my Little Dot MKIII and it sounds great so far. However, I was looking for some new driver tubes that would work the best with female vocals.

 Also, I already have a set of M8100s on the way. Are those good enough or can I do better? Thanks!_

 

I suggest you try the EF92 family of Mullard, M8161 CV4015 with large shield logo. They are very musical and sure like female vocals. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Other tubes worth mention would be Tung-Sol 6AK5W 5654 (my main tubes), they give unbeliavable detail while retaining musicality to a point where it doesn't go worse in either way. Only defect on them is that they recess mids a bit. But I actually use them with my GS1K's which are known to have recessed mids, so I'd say it's not a problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Grats on your purchase! And have fun with tube rolling!


----------



## SemiAudiophile

on ebay theres a listing of two types of mullards m8161 cv4015. one is 6cqc the other is 9d6. are they the same?? i don't see a large shield on them either. and ef92 tubes look longer than ef95 ones. is that true? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i just ordered some RCA 5654s to start off my tube rolling journey...hopefully i won't regret it.


----------



## Henmyr

I've been getting severe channel imbalance lately if I use my EF92 Mullard CV131 (with the jumpers on). The channel imbalance does not change if I switch the places of the driver tubes. However, if I swich places of the power tubes the channel imbalance changes to the other ear.

 When I use EF95 without the jumpers there is no channel imbalance I can hear.

 So, what seems to be the problem?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been getting severe channel imbalance lately if I use my EF92 Mullard CV131 (with the jumpers on). The channel imbalance does not change if I switch the places of the driver tubes. However, if I swich places of the power tubes the channel imbalance changes to the other ear.

 When I use EF95 without the jumpers there is no channel imbalance I can hear.

 So, what seems to be the problem?_

 

Hey Henmyr!

 Without enough coffee this morning, and not thinking too deeply, I'd say you have dirty power tube pins, or a flaky power tube. Try cleaning both of them and see if the problem is gone. If not, I'd be thinking about replacing the power tubes, because something is up with one of them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As a matter of course, I always clean ALL pins on ALL the tubes, if I get one tube that doesn't behave. Usually, they all need the cleaning anyway, so it is time well spent. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Deoxit 5 for cleaning (with small softer, wire brush), and Deoxit Gold to treat the pins, should do the trick. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now, where did I sit my coffee mug! Glug glug glug....


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beta-Vidoh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok thanks, good to know._

 

You're welcome!

 I should have commented further on this. The confusion I once had with the "tube glow", was all created by myself. I thought that a matched pair, would glow the same brightness. It somehow, made sense to my brain. However, I was wrong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Two tubes can measure exactly the same on a tester, and glow with different intensity.

 Now, if I buy a pair of matched tubes, I ask the seller if they wouldn't mind finding me a pair that measure the same AND glow with the same intensity. Most sellers (who have quantity), don't mind doing this for you, if you tell them that you are going to use them in a tube headphone amplifier, that is highly visible.

 If you are buying tubes that are not matched, you never know what to expect in glow intensity. This is why I like to buy driver tubes in a 5 pack, when I can find them this way. I can generally get close to matching them up by glow, and have a few spares "just in case". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a good one!!!


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Henmyr!

 Without enough coffee this morning, and not thinking too deeply, I'd say you have dirty power tube pins, or a flaky power tube. Try cleaning both of them and see if the problem is gone. If not, I'd be thinking about replacing the power tubes, because something is up with one of them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As a matter of course, I always clean ALL pins on ALL the tubes, if I get one tube that doesn't behave. Usually, they all need the cleaning anyway, so it is time well spent. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Deoxit 5 for cleaning (with small softer, wire brush), and Deoxit Gold to treat the pins, should do the trick. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now, where did I sit my coffee mug! Glug glug glug.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi and thanks for the answer (a bit late with the thanks). I will try to get some kind of deox and will see if that helps


----------



## NikZ

The deoxit and deoxit gold really do wonder. At first when I got the M8161 , I didn't understand why everyone here like the M8161 so much. They were very dull sounding and lack detail. Later I noticed that the tube pins were very dirty. After cleaning with caig deoxit and applying some deoxit gold, I was very surprised by the sound quality of the clean M8161. They became a different beast. Better clarity , separation and detail. A lot better! The differences were very noticeble. Now I apply deoxit to every connection point in my system.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DropAtorryKar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, i've bought some pills it this pharmacy store, prices are really low, delivered everything in one day, very very good pharmacy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And here are some more pills that i and my friends purchased there:  lisinopril 20mg   side effects of creatine   Zoloft Versus Prozac   Side Effects Zoloft   Zoloft In Pregnancy   Lexapro Reviews   buy legitimate propecia   Prednisone Taper   canine glucosamine   side effects of cymbalta   Lexapro Effexor   Zocor 20 Mg   seroquel withdrawal   Wellbutrin Sr   Clomid And Metformin For Pcos   ginkgo biloba tree shape _

 

awesome.

 my RCAs came in today. could already tell a difference once i plugged them in. more detail, slightly bigger soundstage. no more of that bloated feeling that i got with the stock tubes. also have some m8161s on the way, can't wait!


----------



## raekwonse

Where are you getting the M8161s? I can't find any expect for the ones with the small shields. Are the small shield ones even worth getting or should I hold out for the large shields?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *raekwonse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are you getting the M8161s? I can't find any expect for the ones with the small shields. Are the small shield ones even worth getting or should I hold out for the large shields?_

 

I'd hold out - keep checking eBay - the current lack of them is kinda surprising actually. You could even email YenAudio (yen1233 on ebay) and see if he has any. I've bought several pairs of tubes from him (including my M8161s) and they've all been great (if not the cheapest).


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *raekwonse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are you getting the M8161s? I can't find any expect for the ones with the small shields. Are the small shield ones even worth getting or should I hold out for the large shields?_

 

oh..i got the ones with the small shields. is there a difference? damn! no wonder they were so cheap...


----------



## NikZ

This is Penchum's opinion and ciphercomplete's opinion about the small shield and the large shield M8161. Hope it helps.

Little Dot MKIII Tube Rolling - Page 111 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## raekwonse

Just to let everyone know, Yen is selling the CV131 right now which is the civilian version of the M8161. They have the large shields. However I think the M8161 is military spec, and is higher quality.

 I actually found a pair of M8161's with the large shield off an international seller on ebay. Not matched, but hopefully they will be ok.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *raekwonse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to let everyone know, Yen is selling the CV131 right now which is the civilian version of the M8161. They have the large shields. However I think the M8161 is military spec, and is higher quality.

 I actually found a pair of M8161's with the large shield off an international seller on ebay. Not matched, but hopefully they will be ok._

 

u mind giving a link or the name of the seller? i want to get the ones with the large shields too.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

received the m8161s today the ones with the small shield. they sound pretty good to me so far. kind of similar to the RCAs but with a bit more detail and texture. btw, yen is also selling the amperex 5654's. he calls them Amperex 5654W-PQ. PQ standing for premium quality. it's not listed though, so you'll have to contact him directly to order a pair. i have a pair on the way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 kind of debating whether i should get the CV131. Yen claims that they were designed and manufactured in the same factory as the m8161's and it's just the civilian equivalent. but if it's lesser quality, i think i'll just wait...

 oh yeah, does anyone know if they sell the deoxit in department or electronic stores? i noticed that the pins were pretty dirty on mine too.


----------



## ScottieB

I got deoxit and deoxit gold in a 2-pack at Radio Shack.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SemiAudiophile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_received the m8161s today the ones with the small shield. they sound pretty good to me so far. kind of similar to the RCAs but with a bit more detail and texture. btw, yen is also selling the amperex 5654's. he calls them Amperex 5654W-PQ. PQ standing for premium quality. it's not listed though, so you'll have to contact him directly to order a pair. i have a pair on the way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 kind of debating whether i should get the CV131. Yen claims that they were designed and manufactured in the same factory as the m8161's and it's just the civilian equivalent. but if it's lesser quality, i think i'll just wait..._

 

The Mullard large shield CV131 sounds _really _close to the M8161 in my opinion, from the factory codes it looks like they were made in the same factory, so maybe they're actually the same tube just labeled differently.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

hmm...i read from earlier post that we need to change the resistor from 62ohm to 120 ohm if we were to upgrade the power tubes to the 6H30PI's? 

 will there be any long-term side effects or damage if we don't do the mods and use them anyway? i want to upgrade but i've no experience with modding electronic components or soldering. is there an easier method to mod that newbies can do?


----------



## ScottieB

^ I'm not sure, but learning to solder is very very easy. I did it to fix my HDAM (for the Zero) and was functional enough to do the real thing in about 30 minutes. Do some research and then practice a few times and you'll be fine.

 I'm not sure about your question, but I wouldn't advise using them without the mod.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

so how do you go about doing this mod (the one with the switch that lets you select the ohms)? i'm completely clueless as to what kind of parts i'll need and where to put them. if someone could put up a tutorial with pictures will be plenty helpful. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 oh...nvm. i found some instructions on pg. 46 (after searching through this extensive thread). it seems complicated though...


----------



## eboy2003

Just report the story of my continuing mod for MK IV and MK III...

*Edit:* Not mean to hijack the tube rolling thread, I moved my MK IV mod to MK IV SE review thread here, since the mod is not necessarily related to the tube rolling requirement and more MK IV specific.

 And I finally take time to open my MK III to do the similar heater resistor mod. The MK III case is a lot tighter and I have to unsolder the RCA connector wires in the back panel to pull the board half way out, and then unsolder all wires on the board to pull it out.

 Oh my god, now I know why my first set of 6H30Pi-EH burned out on MK III, look at those nasty burn marks on the resistors of power RC filter section, the two resistors are completely discolored due to overheat. On the back, one of the 150ohm plate resistor for 6N6P/6H30Pi is also burning out. Can you even read the band as 150ohm? All bands are showing black now... This really sucks, I just wish I fully pull out the board and inspect it before replace the 68ohm cathode resistor to 120ohm for 6H30Pi (BTW, MK IV uses 150ohm instead of 120ohm). I thought the heater voltage is the only problem causing the death of my 6H30Pi, but now I suspect lots of power resistors are underrated and overheat ultimately caused the problem. I'm *very disappointed* by little dot, they owe me two sets of 6H30Pi. Well, at least I feel lucky I found this before putting 6H30-DR on my MK IV.

 On the side note, MK III does not use regulated voltage for 6AK5 like it does on MK IV. So the heater resistors are needed for both 6N6P and 6AK5.










 Be careful MK III owners, do not leave your MK III on for more than a few hours, MK III definitely is not designed for 24x7 burn-in.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eboy2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_snip...
 Be careful MK III owners, do not leave your MK III on for more than a few hours, MK III definitely is not designed for 24x7 burn-in._

 

That's not good news. But I've been using my LD MKIII for +8 hours lot's of times. I have not opened it up to see if there is a heat problem, but I have not had any problem with it yet.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's not good news. But I've been using my LD MKIII for +8 hours lot's of times. I have not opened it up to see if there is a heat problem, but I have not had any problem with it yet._

 

Well, before I did the resistor change for 6H30 family tubes, I was running my MKIII for 8 hours, then a cool down to room temps, then more 8 hour sessions and so on. I did this for at least 1000 hours total. When I took her apart for the mod, I had no signs of heat related problems. I think what we see in the above pics, is all related to running two sets of 6H30's (until dead) without doing the resistor mod.

 If anyone running the stock power tubes (6H6N family) is worried about heat problems, it is easy to unscrew the back two screws and look at the resistors with a flashlight. The best advice still stands as stated way earlier in this thread; *"If you want to move to 6H30 family of power tubes, you MUST do the resistor mod first!"*

 I've been running my "resistor modded" MKIII, using 6H30PI-EH power tubes for at least 750 hours total so far. I have not had any heat related issues so far. The same goes for my MKII modded as well.


----------



## eboy2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think what we see in the above pics, is all related to running two sets of 6H30's (until dead) without doing the resistor mod._

 

*This is not true.* I did the 120ohm cathode resistor mod on MK III before putting on the 6H30Pi-EH. One of the 6H30Pi died after about 1 month. Admittedly I have left amp on 24x7 for several days burn-in, which LD might not designed for that with higher current of 6H30Pi. 

 If you follow the thread and know my story, I got lucky and exchanged the 6H30Pi from Yen and purchased the MK IV non SE. But the same thing one 6H30Pi died after 4 weeks on MK IV. I opened my MK IV and found one channel's plate and cathode 150ohm has some burn signs. Then I measured the heater voltage and found it's about 6.9V and reported this to Mr. Yang at little dot. He admits the transformer is designed for 110V AC and suggesting adding an 1ohm resistor in series for 6H30 heater when use 120V AC. I think the combined higher than spec heater voltage (which cause even more heat) and the overheat of the resistors contributed to the death of 6H30Pi on both MK III and MK IV. But I will not ask Yen for changing another set of 6H30 since this is really not his tubes fault. 

 FYI, MK IV has changed the two 180-200ohm stock power resistor to 5W cement ones, so for MK III with 6H30 mod, it's better to change those resistors as well. I highly recommend also change the underrated 150ohm/150ohm (MK IV), 150ohm/120ohm (MK III) plate and cathode resistors to 2W. If you want to, you can use 150ohm as cathode resistor in MK III as well, MK III and MK IV circuit is mostly identical, just MK IV change coupling capacitors which improves the sound.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Eboy, what pin is the heater voltage on again ? I have a set of 3W 1.1ohm resistors ready to go...I'm thinking pin 3 but want to make sure. I don't have a meter to measure RMS voltage so I'm guessing 1.1 ohm will drop the heater voltage into a better ballpark range (line voltage here averages 125-127V 60hz).

 My plate resistors have no heat related damage...go figure. I'm also running a NOS set of DR's but used a pair Kiwame 1% 3W 121 ohm for that grid resistor mod. If I have some correct value 3W Vishays on hand I will swap the plate resistors out as well, might as well if I have the amp apart.

 Thanks,

 Peete.

 PS Hi Pench !!!


----------



## eboy2003

The heater pin for 6H30 is pin 4 and pin 5. You can see 6H30Pi datasheet here.

 MK III also uses unregulated AC for 6AK5 heater, so you might also need to put a resistor in. I haven't tried that yet, but rough calculation is about 3-4ohm for 6AK5. 6AK5 heater pin is pin 3 and pin 4.

 The MK III plate resistors (150ohm for 6N6P/6H30, 33K for 6AK5) are not so high quality metal oxide resistors, from the size my guess it's only 1/2w, I highly recommend change those to 2W ones and use metal film ones if possible.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, before I did the resistor change for 6H30 family tubes, I was running my MKIII for 8 hours, then a cool down to room temps, then more 8 hour sessions and so on. I did this for at least 1000 hours total. When I took her apart for the mod, I had no signs of heat related problems. I think what we see in the above pics, is all related to running two sets of 6H30's (until dead) without doing the resistor mod.

 If anyone running the stock power tubes (6H6N family) is worried about heat problems, it is easy to unscrew the back two screws and look at the resistors with a flashlight. The best advice still stands as stated way earlier in this thread; *"If you want to move to 6H30 family of power tubes, you MUST do the resistor mod first!"*

 I've been running my "resistor modded" MKIII, using 6H30PI-EH power tubes for at least 750 hours total so far. I have not had any heat related issues so far. The same goes for my MKII modded as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

i want to run the 6H30 family of power tubes. what kind of resistors do i need? and where to get them? HELP pleeasssee.


----------



## eboy2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SemiAudiophile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i want to run the 6H30 family of power tubes. what kind of resistors do i need? and where to get them? HELP pleeasssee. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You can use my MK III board picture as reference, the 120ohm resistor is the one near the green ERO 0.22uf capacitor, one for each channel. The original value was 68ohm, change that to 120-150ohm/2w resistor.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

are u referring to the two resistors circled here?


----------



## eboy2003

Yes.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

sweet! now i just need to know where to find the 120-150ohm/2w resistors and learn how to solder.


----------



## odymmij

I'm getting my amp soon and am excited to roll some tubes!

 So...which tubes would sound better, 6J1P-EV or M8100?


----------



## SemiAudiophile

_just an update on the M8161 small shields._ after burning them in 8hrs/day this past week i find these tubes are pretty awesome especially for its price. i would definitely not pass on these especially for starter tubes since they are pretty cheap and make significant improvements to the mkIII. i think i got them for about $24 shipped on ebay. although, i am quite curious to hear what difference the large shields have to offer hehe (i'll just have to wait on that).

 another suprising thing is that i realized how well-rounded this amp really is. i already knew that the mkIII matched well with my grados and meh with the k701s. but, after tube rolling the mkIII and grados sounded even better, k701 with mkIII= now a good match (quite breathtaking actually), and also after changing my gain->10 mkIII and hd650 also a good match. i was scratching my head earlier wondering why my hd650 still sounded a bit veiled, "airtight" feeling even after tube rolling because i always kept my gain setting at 5 (it didnt make much difference with stock tubes).

 if i were to describe this amp with the new tubes in a sentence it would be "liquid smooth, yet elegant". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now just waiting for the 6H30PI-EH's so i can start modding muhaha. i was able to find some resistors from a local electronics shop.


----------



## Anavel0

@ eboy2003

 Did you do any other mods to your MK III? Because it definetly doesn't look like mine. Specifically the absense of the 3 Rubycon caps, I also noticed some others do not look the same either. Or maybe it was just an older revision? I know Little Dot did make a couple of changes to the MK III.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

hmm...i'm having a bit of a weird problem. received the amperex 5654 PQ's today, but when i popped them in i'm get this weird feedback. i can hear some static coming from mainly the left channel but sometimes the right too. i play some music through them and it sounds amazing however the feedback is kind of annoying. another thing is when i first turn the amp on, i notice that the left tube glows extremely bright for about a second and then dims back to normal. at first i thought it was the amp, and unscrewed the back and checked inside. but couldn't find or smell anything. then i switched the stock tubes back in and everything was fine. so could it be the tubes that are bad or what?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 also just curious, how do you slide out the circuit board? i was trying to figure it out when i took apart the back panel and the top transformer.


----------



## karthur

Thanks to this great forum and the detailed reviews I am now broke, but also now the proud owner of a Little Dot MK III and a whole lot a tubes/valves...

 Preliminary review, this is based on the tubes being burned-in for no more than a few hours.

 Headphones: Grado Sr225s.
 Source: Auzentech X-Meridian with TI Excalibur TLE2072IP Opamp (I'm waiting for my OPA627s to arrive)

 Russian EF95 6Zh1P-EV Voshod 1974-1978 - I have seen some good reports about these but I don't find them to suit my tastes at all. They give a real vinyl quality to the music (the sound of a cheap record player). The bass is ok not great, but the highs seem harsh and a little tinny.

 Mullard M8083/CV4014/EF91 small logo - Sound seems quite accurate although with a slight "tubeyness". Good bass, fluid mids, accurate highs, not harsh or smoothed-over. 

 Mullard EF91 M8083/CV4014 large logo - pretty close the small logo ones, can't really tell much of a difference. No distortion problems.

 Mullard EF92 CV4015 M8161 9D6 KQDDK small logo - Very similar to the EF91s - sound seems quite accurate but with maybe a little more fluidity in the vocals, very slightly more "tubey" than the EF91s but otherwise very similar.

 Mullard EF92 large logo - These have been getting the best reviews but I have to say that they are pretty similar to all the other Mullard EF91/EF92s that I have tried. 

 Mullard EF95 6AK5 - These are a little weaker than the EF92/EF91s. Lighter bass sums it up I think but quite a good sound nonetheless.

 Mazda EF91 CV138 6AM6 B7G Pentodes - Now we're talking. These are really cheap on eBay UK. I have no idea who really made these, but it really does say "Mazda" on the tubes. No distortion problems to report. The sound is warm, round and "tubey". Liquid vocals, full bass, rounded smooth highs - very nice. I think these could be my favourite.

 Osram W77 9D6 - The most expensive that I bought (around £20). These are vintage from around 1951 I think, and the boxes look even older. These give a very nice sound, a little warmer than the Mullard EF91/EF92s, and less accurate but a very pleasing "tube" sound. This is really what I think the whole point of buying a tube amp is - to get a tube sound...and these provide it. Along with the Mazda's these are my favourite. 

 This is also my first post and I'm probably not doing it right....but I promise I'll learn!


----------



## Testament

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *karthur* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks to this great forum and the detailed reviews I am now broke, but also now the proud owner of a Little Dot MK III and a whole lot a tubes/valves...

 Preliminary review, this is based on the tubes being burned-in for no more than a few hours.

 Headphones: Grado Sr225s.
 Source: Auzentech X-Meridian with TI Excalibur TLE2072IP Opamp (I'm waiting for my OPA627s to arrive)

 Russian EF95 6Zh1P-EV Voshod 1974-1978 - I have seen some good reports about these but I don't find them to suit my tastes at all. They give a real vinyl quality to the music (the sound of a cheap record player). The bass is ok not great, but the highs seem harsh and a little tinny.

 Mullard M8083/CV4014/EF91 small logo - Sound seems quite accurate although with a slight "tubeyness". Good bass, fluid mids, accurate highs, not harsh or smoothed-over. 

 Mullard EF91 M8083/CV4014 large logo - pretty close the small logo ones, can't really tell much of a difference. No distortion problems.

 Mullard EF92 CV4015 M8161 9D6 KQDDK small logo - Very similar to the EF91s - sound seems quite accurate but with maybe a little more fluidity in the vocals, very slightly more "tubey" than the EF91s but otherwise very similar.

 Mullard EF92 large logo - These have been getting the best reviews but I have to say that they are pretty similar to all the other Mullard EF91/EF92s that I have tried. 

 Mullard EF95 6AK5 - These are a little weaker than the EF92/EF91s. Lighter bass sums it up I think but quite a good sound nonetheless.

 Mazda EF91 CV138 6AM6 B7G Pentodes - Now we're talking. These are really cheap on eBay UK. I have no idea who really made these, but it really does say "Mazda" on the tubes. No distortion problems to report. The sound is warm, round and "tubey". Liquid vocals, full bass, rounded smooth highs - very nice. I think these could be my favourite.

 Osram W77 9D6 - The most expensive that I bought (around £20). These are vintage from around 1951 I think, and the boxes look even older. These give a very nice sound, a little warmer than the Mullard EF91/EF92s, and less accurate but a very pleasing "tube" sound. This is really what I think the whole point of buying a tube amp is - to get a tube sound...and these provide it. Along with the Mazda's these are my favourite. 

 This is also my first post and I'm probably not doing it right....but I promise I'll learn!_

 

I didn't think the mk III was compatible with EF91 family tubes, am I wrong?


----------



## karthur

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Testament* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't think the mk III was compatible with EF91 family tubes, am I wrong?_

 

Yes you're wrong!

 Some people have reported distortion with some EF91s but Little Dot has not been able to replicate the problem in their lab, and I haven't experienced it in any of the EF91s that I reviewed above in my LD MK III.


----------



## Testament

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *karthur* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes you're wrong!

 Some people have reported distortion with some EF91s but Little Dot has not been able to replicate the problem in their lab, and I haven't experienced it in any of the EF91s that I reviewed above in my LD MK III._

 

sweet, i just pulled the trigger on some mazdas, and am trying to find the osrams now

 Edit: So Do you need to mess around with the jumpers for ef91?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Use the EF92 jumper setting for the EF91 tube family.

 The amp was designed to be use with the EF91 tubes initially but some people reported distortion back when the amp was first released, I've never had any problem rolling EF91 tubes and I think the distortion reports are probably due to bad or mis-matched tubes.

 - DoA


----------



## oofie810

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Use the EF92 jumper setting for the EF91 tube family.

 The amp was designed to be use with the EF91 tubes initially but some people reported distortion back when the amp was first released, I've never had any problem rolling EF91 tubes and I think the distortion reports are probably due to bad or mis-matched tubes.

 - DoA_

 

In that case, which tubes from the ef91 family is recommended? I only have the stock and the Russian tubes for my mkIII.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In that case, which tubes from the ef91 family is recommended? I only have the stock and the Russian tubes for my mkIII._

 

My favorite would be the Mullard M8083 Mullard M8083 / CV4014 Mil. Spec. Little Dot Amp EF91 - eBay (item 270278941582 end time Dec-21-08 16:53:02 PST)


----------



## raekwonse

Wow, I just popped in my Mullard M8161's that I received in the mail and omg...the soundstage is ridiculous. I've been through the stock driver tubes, the M8100s, and the Voshod military spec tubes. They were decent, but this is by far the best out of all of them.

 I think I'm in heaven.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SemiAudiophile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm...i'm having a bit of a weird problem. received the amperex 5654 PQ's today, but when i popped them in i'm get this weird feedback. i can hear some static coming from mainly the left channel but sometimes the right too. i play some music through them and it sounds amazing however the feedback is kind of annoying. another thing is when i first turn the amp on, i notice that the left tube glows extremely bright for about a second and then dims back to normal. at first i thought it was the amp, and unscrewed the back and checked inside. but couldn't find or smell anything. then i switched the stock tubes back in and everything was fine. so could it be the tubes that are bad or what?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 also just curious, how do you slide out the circuit board? i was trying to figure it out when i took apart the back panel and the top transformer._

 

Amperex PQ's flash when first fired up. It's normal and nothing to worry about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's kinda cool I think .....I also have some E95F PQ's ...absolutely incredible tubes SQ wise I found. but rare as hell and hard to find.

 Peete.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

hey peete, did you have distortion problems too? i'm getting distortion wherever that flashing tube is placed. i emailed yen about it and he told me it was normal about the flashing too, but he said the distortion is unusual but should go away after about 8-10 hours of burn-in. i asked him if i could get a replacement, but apparently this was his last set.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SemiAudiophile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey peete, did you have distortion problems too? i'm getting distortion wherever that flashing tube is placed. i emailed yen about it and he told me it was normal about the flashing too, but he said the distortion is unusual but should go away after about 8-10 hours of burn-in. i asked him if i could get a replacement, but apparently this was his last set. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No distortion problems with my PQ's... but the tubes I have are the same family as the MK III stock driver tubes. I don't have any EF91's at all. 

 Peete.


----------



## Henmyr

Just read http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/que...e-amps-388255/ and came to think about tube-life.

 Have anyone of you LD MKIII owners had a tube burn-out yet? This includes both driver and powertubes.

 Have anyone of you had a tube break prematurely (buy turning the amp on or of etc.)?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just read http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/que...e-amps-388255/ and came to think about tube-life.

 Have anyone of you LD MKIII owners had a tube burn-out yet? This includes both driver and powertubes.

 Have anyone of you had a tube break prematurely (buy turning the amp on or of etc.)?_

 

Nope. Only had it for about 7 months, but have purchased many NOS tubes andeven all of them have been just fine. I think the lightbulb analogy is the best one - you never know, and they could go at any moment, but usually they work long enough to be considered reasonable.


----------



## Lunchbox2

I just bought a MKIII from the forums here, and I'm really looking forward to checking it out and maybe upgrading the tubes.


----------



## eboy2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anavel0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ eboy2003

 Did you do any other mods to your MK III? Because it definetly doesn't look like mine. Specifically the absense of the 3 Rubycon caps, I also noticed some others do not look the same either. Or maybe it was just an older revision? I know Little Dot did make a couple of changes to the MK III._

 

No nothing mod yet. My MK III was purchased in Oct 07, I think the internal components vary from batch to batch. The three power caps on my MK III uses Nichicon. The MK III does not use much hifi quality components anyway. It's easy enough to replace all components, but MK III is so tight that the power cap and output cap may only have limited choice.


----------



## vintinfinity

Hi, I'm new to posting on Head-Fi, but a long time reader on occasion over the years.

 I am interested in a tube headphone/preamp combo... I have read that some people think the MK III has more potential than the MK IV ( and SE model) with the various tube rolling options.

 I want to use it with some HD280 Pros and as a preamp for my component stereo, possibly some open headphones later too.

 This thread is overwhelmingly long, so any thoughts on the matter would be helpful.


----------



## mudhole

Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile 
 i want to run the 6H30 family of power tubes. what kind of resistors do i need? and where to get them? HELP pleeasssee. 



 I just talked with sword-yang yesterday, he said the new version LD MKIII v2.0 has already changed the resistor from 68ohm to 120ohm. So you can use the 6H30 power tube without doing the resistor mod. Check your PCB version No. first.


----------



## esirex

Another gems to look into Ultron 5654 from Germany really sound nice on guitar especially Metallica. Currently awaiting Mazda EF91


----------



## esirex

The Mazda tubes EF91...when i first plug in the sound sounds good with mid and high but bass was terrible and distorted on my MS2i. So i lowered the gain to the minimum, still minor distortion can be heard. Burnt in for 4 hours distortion gone at low gain but I have to turn my volume up so i decided to up to mid gain damn distortion so plugged in my ER4s gosh no distortion and I hear good sounds from my Ety. Now after nearly 20 hours of burn in I swear I have never hear sounds that was so good on my Ety. Bass is tight mid and highs are sweet. And sound is warm...


----------



## One Fan To Another

I'd like to weigh in about the MKIII mod that allows you to use 6H30Pi tubes.

 I did the mod a while back (I believe this thread was on page 50 something at the time) and put in the EH 6H30Pi Gold tubes I had purchased for a pretty high price from Yen Audio (who has the all the great tubes, and THE best customer service, but certainly the harshest prices). Unlike a lot of people in the world I don't suffer from the condition that effects a person brain to believe that the more expensive something is the better it absolutely has to be (MRI scans have shown that in some test subject's brains their brains actually react and the subject's thinking patterns change when given two exact same substances but told that the second substance is the more expensive one - like wine for example - making the subject believe that one tastes better even though it's the same wine). So, back to the tubes I've switched out the stock tubes and am now listening to these new, fancy-shmancy, expensive tubes. On first listen I can straight out say that the stock tubes after decent burn in are better than the brand new, un-used Golds. But of course we have to go by the burned in sound. So, I use the Gold's for quiet a while and believe that they do in fact get better. They seem to become warmer (or "musical", if you will) but in no way add to the sound stage or expand the low or high end. So, even after burn in the Golds, when in came down to it, simply added mild warmth to the amp. For the trouble of the modding (and the chance that you'll burn something out even WITH the mod, as the last few pages of this thread have indicated) and the ridiculous price of the new tubes I can honestly say it is, in absolutely no way worth it. And, I'm not even saying, "If you have the money it might be worth trying". No, I'm saying if you bought an MKIII you'd be straight out wasting you time and money to get 6H30Pi tubes.

 Lastly, I CAN say that while the stock tubes may not be as warm as the Golds were the difference in warm is next to negligible and I've found that the sound stage is about that much better on the stock tubes. The switch is basically an equal trade of sound stage for warmth but very, very little anyway. Not to mention the whole unit is cooler with the stock tubes.

 Needless to say I put the stock tubes back in and my MKIII is staying this way: Stock power tubes with Sylvania 6AK5 Golds tubes.


----------



## One Fan To Another

Oh, I'd like to add: The best thing I did for my headphone setup was add a BBE Sonic Maximizer. Forget tubes for a second, for less than the price of a couple pairs of EH 6H30Pi tubes you can get a Maximizer off of eBay and get a far superior and much more palpable change in you sound. I can't use my headphone setup without one at this point.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *One Fan To Another* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, I'd like to add: The best thing I did for my headphone setup was add a BBE Sonic Maximizer. Forget tubes for a second, for less than the price of a couple pairs of EH 6H30Pi tubes you can get a Maximizer off of eBay and get a far superior and much more palpable change in you sound. I can't use my headphone setup without one at this point._

 

 Well, hearing *is* subjective after all. If it works for you..it works for you.

 I disagree completely with your opinion about the 6H30's. I find mine work wonders over the stock tubes. I've also modified my MK III a little more than most folks, the mod having a very positive effect revealing details, nuance, lowering the noise floor, better bass (tighter), more focused mids.....slightly wider sound stage.This is with Sylvania,Tung Sol (EF 95's) and Mullard (EF 92) drivers into a pair of NOS 6H30Pi-DR's. If you thought the Golds were expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You've talked about the power tubes...what driver tubes are you using ?
 These really can make or break the amps overall SQ.

 Peete.


----------



## One Fan To Another

As I said in my other post I'm using Sylvania 6AK5 Golds for the driver tubes (how come no one calls these the pre-amp tubes around here?).

 But, like you said its all subjective (with a touch of 'more expensive is better' syndrome thrown in) so whatever. Although, I guess it's a lot better to prefer the cheap tubes


----------



## erikzen

My Little Dot MKIII just arrived today. I ordered it last Monday, it shipped on Thursday and here on Tuesday. Excellent service and delivery!

 OK so I've been burning in the amp for about 8 minutes. Way too early to give impressions.

 I'm also running the pre-amp out to my Stax SRM-1/MKII with Lambda Pros. It seems like I really need to crank up the volume on the LD and adjust the volume from the Stax amp. Is this the best way to do this? Should I be increasing the gain for this kind of setup?

 I honestly tried to read this whole thread but there are a year's worth of posts here. Maybe we can cut to the chase and I can get some opinions on tubes.

 First off, with the stock tubes, when the amp burns in will it get a little crisper? I had hoped that this amp would tame the SA5000 but I'm afraid perhaps it might be too much. I'd like the vocals to sound a bit fuller also. Right now they're sounding a bit boxy. Still there are interesting nuances to the sound so I am intrigued. I just want to know what to expect from the stock configuration. 

 What would be a good tube for the SA5000? I like their detail, airiness and clarity, but don't like how they can be so analytical. I don't want to tone it down too much but just make it a bit less fatiguing. So far, I think with the stock tubes it takes it a bit too far.

 Is there are particular tube that is better suited to using the amp as a pre-amp? The Lambda Pros are my favorite headphone but they can be a bit polite in the bass department. Is there a tube that works well when using the LD as a pre-amp that might add a touch of warmth to the Stax without losing all of its speed?

 Finally, I've read some back and forth about the power tubes. It seems like it's necessary to mod the amp in order to put different tubes other than the stock ones. Then in a very recent post I see there is a version 2 that negates having to mod the amp to try different power tubes. What is the final word on rolling power tubes?

 Just as an aside, I laughed out loud when I read parts of the owner's manual. I don't mean to make fun of anyone, certainly Little Dot is doing a great job with their products and far be it from me to make fun of someone who attempts to be bilingual when I can't even speak English correctly. But you have to admit the operating instructions on page six are pretty humorous. Couldn't some nice Head-Fier offer to do a proper English manual for these guys?

 Where is Matata anyway? And why do we want to go there?

Matata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## ScottieB

@erikzen- no doubt things will open up considerably with use, but while I am no expert on your equipment, from what you said about wanting to bring vocals and crispness up a bit, I found the 6ZH1P to do just that. 
VOSHOD 6ZH1P-EV / 6AK5 NOS Little Dot Amplifier EF95 - eBay (item 280268869219 end time Feb-16-09 01:56:57 PST)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mudhole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just talked with sword-yang yesterday, he said the new version LD MKIII v2.0 has already changed the resistor from 68ohm to 120ohm. So you can use the 6H30 power tube without doing the resistor mod. Check your PCB version No. first._

 

This is very interesting as I was told I had one of the first v2.0s... but when I contacted David he had a slightly different take:

 "To answer your question, there are no version of the Little Dot MK III that can use the 6H30 type tubes and be completely stable in doing so. While theoretically you could use them, the setup will not be optimal and is not recommended." 

 Just wanted to put that out there. Did sword say anything about the stability of it?


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@erikzen- no doubt things will open up considerably with use_

 

No doubt. Hour two and it's already sounding much better.

 Thanks for the tip and the link.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *One Fan To Another* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I said in my other post I'm using Sylvania 6AK5 Golds for the driver tubes (how come no one calls these the pre-amp tubes around here?).

 But, like you said its all subjective (with a touch of 'more expensive is better' syndrome thrown in) so whatever. Although, I guess it's a lot better to prefer the cheap tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm the last person that would suffer from "more expensive is better" mindset as you call it. In your case it certainly is a bonus to prefer cheap tubes, you save a load of cash.

 Sylvania golds and what, gold pins, gold label, black plate round getter, gray plate rectangular getter ? There are many versions of the Sylvania 6AK5, some terrific some not so terrific. The best Syl's are the 50's, early 60's era round getter black plates that are 6AK5W or WA mil spec. These can be had for reasonable price depending on who is selling them.

 Peete.


----------



## YtseJamer

FYI : 3 x NOS Sylvania 6AK5 WB Vacuum Tubes **sorry for the spam**


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Wow you really went for the system upgrade pfillion....I wish I had the $$ for those tubes you have...alas I'm tapped from XMAS holidays and such.

 Rudistor amp on the way....nice !!!

 Peete.


----------



## cswann1

Hey Prickley Peete,
 What modifications did you have to do (or have done) To get your MKIII to accept the 6H30Pi-DR tubes?


----------



## goorackerelite

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First off, with the stock tubes, when the amp burns in will it get a little crisper? I had hoped that this amp would tame the SA5000 but I'm afraid perhaps it might be too much. I'd like the vocals to sound a bit fuller also. Right now they're sounding a bit boxy. Still there are interesting nuances to the sound so I am intrigued. I just want to know what to expect from the stock configuration. 

 What would be a good tube for the SA5000? I like their detail, airiness and clarity, but don't like how they can be so analytical. I don't want to tone it down too much but just make it a bit less fatiguing. So far, I think with the stock tubes it takes it a bit too far.


Matata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_

 

Okay, the stock driver tubes do get crisper with burn in. They get brighter and the bass becomes a bit more tight, but I feel it's a little bloated. Very analytical tubes. 

 If you want some warmth and perfect bass control try mullard m8161 they're very cohesive and smooth through out the range. 

 Or if you want absolute lush tubby wide sound with fatter bass but not as controlled, try the Mullard CV138 (large shields) in the EF91 family. These are my tubes of choice for my system btw. 

 I've heard the Mazdas are supposedly very lush and warm as well.


----------



## YtseJamer

Thanks Peete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I hope that I will be done for a while.

 Patrick


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow you really went for the system upgrade pfillion....I wish I had the $$ for those tubes you have...alas I'm tapped from XMAS holidays and such.

 Rudistor amp on the way....nice !!!

 Peete._


----------



## mudhole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@erikzen- no doubt things will open up considerably with use, but while I am no expert on your equipment, from what you said about wanting to bring vocals and crispness up a bit, I found the 6ZH1P to do just that. 
VOSHOD 6ZH1P-EV / 6AK5 NOS Little Dot Amplifier EF95 - eBay (item 280268869219 end time Feb-16-09 01:56:57 PST)



 This is very interesting as I was told I had one of the first v2.0s... but when I contacted David he had a slightly different take:

 "To answer your question, there are no version of the Little Dot MK III that can use the 6H30 type tubes and be completely stable in doing so. While theoretically you could use them, the setup will not be optimal and is not recommended." 

 Just wanted to put that out there. Did sword say anything about the stability of it?_

 


 The story is:
 I am a Chinese with bad English skill, so after I ordered my MKIII, I went to Little Dot's Chinese forums to ask sword helping me select some tubes from yen-audio(ebay). He recommended western electric 403B and M8100/cv4010 for driver, and 6H30pi for power.

 But after I searched this thread, I found this issue. I asked sword again that "if I use 6H30pi, do I need to mod the resistor from 68ohm to 120ohm?". Then he replied the new v2.0 version is already using 120ohm resistors instead of 68ohm. He didn't say anything about the stability.

 I am a newbie, I am confused again
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is the link of my thread in Chinese ld forums. hope you guys can understand Chinese, for me Chinese is much easier than tube rolling.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://www.little-tube.com/bbs/dispb...ID=2475&page=1


----------



## One Fan To Another

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Sylvania golds and what, gold pins, gold label, black plate round getter, gray plate rectangular getter ? There are many versions of the Sylvania 6AK5, some terrific some not so terrific. The best Syl's are the 50's, early 60's era round getter black plates that are 6AK5W or WA mil spec. These can be had for reasonable price depending on who is selling them._

 

Oh, yeah sorry, they are the golds with gold pins (side note: from what I've read gold plated pins does NOTHING when it comes to tubes), grey plates and rectangular getters (GB-5654 type). I know these not the good ones that everyone goes on about (ie. black plates, round getters) but I got them back when I got my amp just to try out since I had planned to try a lot of tubes (I've tried a couple types - GE something or other and Tung-Sols) the next one I think I'll try is the Mullard M8161 I think.

 But for the power tubes people, in this thread, were saying it basically came down to the stock tubes and the EH 6H30Pi Gold tubes (or the DR like you have). So, I tried 'em and thought, "This is not worth the mod trouble, the price, and the chance of killing tubes" - which some here have experienced. So, back in the stock tubes went.


----------



## ScottieB

Thanks, Mudhole. Sorry but not a word of Chinese here. 

 edit - next post sums it up I think...


----------



## One Fan To Another

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mudhole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The story is:
 I am a Chinese with bad English skill, so after I ordered my MKIII, I went to Little Dot's Chinese forums to ask sword helping me select some tubes from yen-audio(ebay). He recommended western electric 403B and M8100/cv4010 for driver, and 6H30pi for power.

 But after I searched this thread, I found this issue. I asked sword again that "if I use 6H30pi, do I need to mod the resistor from 68ohm to 120ohm?". Then he replied the new v2.0 version is already using 120ohm resistors instead of 68ohm. He didn't say anything about the stability.

 I am a newbie, I am confused again
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is the link of my thread in Chinese ld forums. hope you guys can understand Chinese, for me Chinese is much easier than tube rolling.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Little-Tube-¶ú·Å×¨°æ-ÇëÑîÀÏÊ¦°ïÃ¦Ñ¡¹Ü×Ó_

 

The problem, that others have pointed out, with simply having a 120ohm resistor instead of the 68ohm resistor is that the other parts on the board are cheap Chinese parts that may not be rated perfectly and therefore not provide the proper power structure to allow the amp to run dependably with 6H30Pi tubes. So, some people here, who simply changed the resistors to 120ohms still had problems some even had their tubes die.


----------



## mudhole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *One Fan To Another* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The problem, that others have pointed out, with simply having a 120ohm resistor instead of the 68ohm resistor is that the other parts on the board are cheap Chinese parts that may not be rated perfectly and therefore not provide the proper power structure to allow the amp to run dependably with 6H30Pi tubes. So, some people here, who simply changed the resistors to 120ohms still had problems some even had their tubes die._

 

Thanks, I agree with you.
 For newbie like me should better keep the stock power tube. 

 Anyway I need trainning my ears first.


----------



## goorackerelite

what do you guys think are the "tubiest" tubes for the little dot? 
 Warm, Lush, emotional, euphonic mids, silky highs, and warm tight bass, biggest soundstage. 

 Both driver tubes and power tubes


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *One Fan To Another* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The problem, that others have pointed out, with simply having a 120ohm resistor instead of the 68ohm resistor is that the other parts on the board are cheap Chinese parts that may not be rated perfectly and therefore not provide the proper power structure to allow the amp to run dependably with 6H30Pi tubes. So, some people here, who simply changed the resistors to 120ohms still had problems some even had their tubes die._

 


 I think you'll find eboy's explanation in this thread more plausible for the tube issues...it effects either type equally BTW....6H30 and 6N6P and the drivers. 


 To answer another posters question about the mods I have performed on the Mk III.....thus far I have added .033uf 500V PIO bypass caps to all 5 large electrolytic caps on the inside, removed the stock 3.3uf WIMA output coupling caps and replaced those with a PLIO (K75-10 250V 2.2uf + K42Y-2 1.0uf 250V) PIO cap pack then bypassed those with NOS Teflon T3 .1uf 600V 5% caps.

 Those large value caps are huge and have to be slung underneath the chassis. It's ugly...but sounds wonderful. A new vol pot might be next with a Neutrik locking jack...but that's a ways off yet. Of course I have already swapped the 68ohm resistors to 121 ohm 3W Kiwame. 

 I still have to add the eboy mod to drop the heater V to all 4 tubes. I'll get around to that once I finish reviews on some other gear in Mid Feb.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *goorackerelite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what do you guys think are the "tubiest" tubes for the little dot? 
 Warm, Lush, emotional, euphonic mids, silky highs, and warm tight bass, biggest soundstage. 

 Both driver tubes and power tubes_

 

RCA black plates...either "Command" series or mil spec variant.

 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you'll find eboy's explanation in this thread more plausible for the tube issues...it effects either type equally BTW....6H30 and 6N6P and the drivers. 

 snip_

 


 So wait are you saying that the 6H30 tubes should be safe then? Or just that using them wouldn't damage the tubes?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So wait are you saying that the 6H30 tubes should be safe then? Or just that using them wouldn't damage the tubes?_

 

Well I haven't had any problems thus far...that being said I have only 1 amp and I tend to believe eboy's explanation for shortened tube life....with the DR's running at 150US plus per pair...I'm gonna add those 4 dollars worth of resistors to drop the heater V. You guys have to remember Sword Yang is not seeing 125V + V at his mains outlets when these amps are tested. The only thing I can think of that would make a rev 2.0 version compatible is spec'ing a dual or single primary 117V transformer vs the 110V ones they originally shipped with. That 7V difference (if that is what they did beyond swapping grid resistors) makes quite a bit of difference at the 6.3V secondaries going to the tube heaters. I don't think they had room in the chassis or the circuit board to add regulated DC heater line(s).

 This is just a guess of course but it makes the most sense to me after reading eboy's reports on the subject.

 Peete.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

I got just out my matched pair of Voshod 6ZH1P-EV today and was amazed at how great the detail is compared to the Mullard M8100's. I think these are definitely one of the best value in terms of tube upgrades. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Not sure about the 6H30Pi's though.


----------



## SilverShadow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got just out my matched pair of Voshod 6ZH1P-EV today and was amazed at how great the detail is compared to the Mullard M8100's. I think these are definitely one of the best value in terms of tube upgrades. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not sure about the 6H30Pi's though._

 

x2 !

 My 6Zh1P-EVs have had about 100 hours of burn-in now, in fact I'm pretty sure I'm passing the 100 hour mark during the time I'm writing this (Foobar's playback time counter sure is handy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Not sure if these tubes even need that long burn-in... Even when I took the first listen to these new tubes I could immediately tell they were more detailed than the MKIV (not SE) stock tubes. These are the first tubes I bought and I'm pretty sure I'm going to hold on to these for quite some time.

 The sound stage is better than with stock tubes. To me it seems the sound stage may not be that much larger but it's kind of more accurate and more details come up effortlessly. Instrument separation seems to be better. These tubes also add a little bass. Not much but just enough to make AKG K701 sound "full" and not light on bass. Okay, I still wouldn't recommend this rig to a bass head, but the lows and lower mids can be clearly heard and IMO, sound pretty natural. 

 EDIT: The bass seems also deeper. The stock tubes kind of piled up the power of the bass to a certain frequency and didn't reproduce anything below that point. Now the bass reaches deep and sounds natural all the way down.

 So yeah, I agree 150% with DoA and others who have said the same. These tubes are a must, especially if you have K701s (and think they're light on bass). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Disclaimer: I'm a beginner and have limited experience. Please take everything in this post with a grain of salt. Oh, and sorry about possible spelling mistakes.


----------



## crispyambulance

Hi, I'm looking to find some spare power tubes but have been having fairly sour luck finding anything less than 40$ (for around 2) on ebay. Found these, though:

Beijing 6N6-T(6N6, E182CC, 6N6P) Vacuum Tube 4 PCs - eBay (item 270277698619 end time Feb-15-09 23:45:32 PST)

 Are they compatible with the MKIII? One of the posts in this thread leads me to believe so, but I'd like to make sure as power tubes seem to be a touchy subject. Also, my internet research has led me to believe that power tubes require being matched; should I forgo these if the seller says they aren't matched? I'm messaging him right now.

 Forgive my ignorance, etc. Thanks.

 (While I'm at it, how important is being matched for driver tubes?)


----------



## esirex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crispyambulance* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I'm looking to find some spare power tubes but have been having fairly sour luck finding anything less than 40$ (for around 2) on ebay. Found these, though:

Beijing 6N6-T(6N6, E182CC, 6N6P) Vacuum Tube 4 PCs - eBay (item 270277698619 end time Feb-15-09 23:45:32 PST)

 Are they compatible with the MKIII? One of the posts in this thread leads me to believe so, but I'd like to make sure as power tubes seem to be a touchy subject. Also, my internet research has led me to believe that power tubes require being matched; should I forgo these if the seller says they aren't matched? I'm messaging him right now.

 Forgive my ignorance, etc. Thanks.

 (While I'm at it, how important is being matched for driver tubes?)_

 

6N6P-I = ECC99 = E182C Lot of 8 Tubes RARE Nos - eBay (item 330302407809 end time Feb-20-09 11:34:13 PST)

 I am currently running these tubes 6H6P-i. And they really do sound better then the stock power tubes. And personally I dont find any difference whether its match or unmatch ...


----------



## One Fan To Another

^In what way do those tubes sound differently from the stock tubes, would you say?

 Power tubes are supposed to be matched for even biasing. I'm not sure what the problem could be if they aren't biased equally but one could assume it may cause volume difference in the two channels. If the volumes coincidentally happened to be close enough for you to not notice than I don't if there would be anything else to worry about.


----------



## esirex

I do a agree with what you said OFTA....I did a comparison on the stock tubes and the 6H6P-I after both tubes are burned in. Using the voshods driver tubes as reference. The depth and the clarity do have improvements. As I am running unmatch tubes now...i dont find any imbalance on either side. All tubes that I am running on are not matched.


----------



## crispyambulance

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *esirex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am currently running these tubes 6H6P-i. And they really do sound better then the stock power tubes. And personally I dont find any difference whether its match or unmatch ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was under the impression that the 6H6Pi was the stock tube in the MKIII ?_?

 Edit: Is it significant that those tubes in your entry, Esirex, are named 6N6Pi, and maybe that's why I'm confused?

 Are those 6N6's considered worse than the stock tubes? This post seems to say so, but I'm not sure if the "-T" in the my ebay one's listing denotes those tubes are different in any significant way. If they're considered worse I'll just get more of the stock tubes, I reckon.


----------



## esirex

My MK3 comes with 6N6 power tubes.....


----------



## grammicci14

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_RCA black plates...either "Command" series or mil spec variant.

 Peete._

 

What tube numbers (Models)?? 
 Noob Looking to get a MKIII but want to start on getting solid tubes off the bat.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grammicci14* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What tube numbers (Models)?? 
 Noob Looking to get a MKIII but want to start on getting solid tubes off the bat._

 

This is, of course, my opinion, but I'd recommend you just learn the sound and feel of the MKIII with the stock tubes - which are quite "solid". THEN after burn-in start messing around with tubes. This is especially true if you are a noob. Fact is, to me anyway, it seems like a waste to automatically discard the stock tubes - if you want better tubes off the bat maybe you should step up to an MKIVse or something. The tubes are part of the cost, and were chosen carefully. As a new owner you should take the time to get used to the amp, to hear how it changes at it burns-in and to get a grasp of the stock configuration. Heck - you may be perfectly satisfied and not feel a need to upgrade (your wallet would thank you in this instance). But if you do, then you have a world of tubes to start looking at. 

 I guess another way to put it is that there's tons of fun to be had with this amp - you shouldn't be too eager to try and have it all at once! 

 Just my opinion of course... do whatever floats your boat - there are tons of reco's in this thread for great tubes!


----------



## grammicci14

Quote:Heck - you may be perfectly satisfied and not feel a need to upgrade (your wallet would thank you in this instance).
 HA HA HA!!! Not likely as this is not this wouldn't be my first tube amp. I know the potential of a good tube roll and how Fun amps like this are!!! I just need to bite the bulet and jump in!!!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grammicci14* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quote:Heck - you may be perfectly satisfied and not feel a need to upgrade (your wallet would thank you in this instance).
 HA HA HA!!! Not likely as this is not this wouldn't be my first tube amp. I know the potential of a good tube roll and how Fun amps like this are!!! I just need to bite the bulet and jump in!!!_

 

Ah ok ha. Was assuming when you said "noob" (and from post count) you meant you were new to tube amps in general. My bad.

 In that case, may I recommend...

 The Mullard M8161 (large shield) EF92 (so make sure jumpers are on or switches are in right position)
 "The Russians" - VOSHOD 6ZH1P-EV - Great energetic sound, and still relatively inexpensive for matched pair.

 I've also heard great things but not yet had the funds to try Tung Sol 6AK5W, GE 5-Star or Mobile Radio, and the Sylvania Golds everyone keeps talking about.


----------



## crispyambulance

Sorry to be a bugger but would any of you say that buying unmatched power _or_ driver tubes is a no-no?


----------



## One Fan To Another

^I think it all depends on how closely the tubes just coincidentally happen to be rated. I have a hand full of the stock style pre-amp tubes for my MKIII and they all seem to make for the same volume except for one. That one is slightly, but noticeably quieter. So, who knows. Maybe if you buy unmatched ones there won't be a problem or maybe you'll end up with one tube that quieter than the other, or has more distortion than the other.

 Think of it like dual channel RAM for your computer. You don't NEED to buy packs that have the pair of sticks of RAM for dual channel to work, but if you buy two separate sticks that aren't EXACTLY the same in every way then the BIOS won't understand how to run them in dual channel and will be forced to run them in single channel mode.

 Maybe you'll be fine or maybe you'll be screwed. Buying matched pair simply guarantees the proper functioning of the parts.


----------



## goorackerelite

mullard CV 138s (large shields) have the richest, most extended and textured sound I've heard in the Little Dot Mk3. It's also 4 DB louder than other tubes and have a biggest sound-stage I've heard thus far. I'm using these in conjunction with the stock power tubes.


----------



## crispyambulance

That seals it, then; going with matching. Thanks for the opinion; I thought so, but I'm hardly an expert on these things.


----------



## One Fan To Another

okay, can we all set one thing straight - I'm confused. What are the stock power tubes of the MKIII? It was just mentioned that they are 6N6 but that link a few post back, to a post by Penchum, says that the MKIII's stock power tubes are 6H6P-I.

 So, which is it? If the stock MKIII tubes are 6H6P-I then there really is no need to ever "upgrade" them, type wise - just brand wise.


----------



## NikZ

My MKIII came with a pair of 6N6P or 6H6n (not 6N6P-I). I bought mine around April - May last year.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *One Fan To Another* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okay, can we all set one thing straight - I'm confused. What are the stock power tubes of the MKIII? It was just mentioned that they are 6N6 but that link a few post back, to a post by Penchum, says that the MKIII's stock power tubes are 6H6P-I.

 So, which is it? If the stock MKIII tubes are 6H6P-I then there really is no need to ever "upgrade" them, type wise - just brand wise._

 

Along those lines - I've lost track of which tubes were stock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 oops... can someone tell me or point me to a clear photo so I can tell which are the stocks - I bought a few "lots" of tubes to try stuff out and that's where I lost track... thanks for helping to untangle my brain!

 EDIT - sorry - talking about driver tubes in my case...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Along those lines - I've lost track of which tubes were stock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 oops... can someone tell me or point me to a clear photo so I can tell which are the stocks - I bought a few "lots" of tubes to try stuff out and that's where I lost track... thanks for helping to untangle my brain!

 EDIT - sorry - talking about driver tubes in my case..._

 

The MK III stock tubes are GE 5654's and the power tubes are 6N6P (or 6H6P)....some times you'll get the better 6N6P-I derivative but that's rare.

 Peete.


----------



## charliex

Couple questions about my LD MK III (and my growing love for this fantastic tube amp). I run all my cans through them (see signature), but primarily my HD 580's, and secondarily my MS 1's. I've had the amp for a couple months and am ready to try some tube rolling. Looking to broaden soundstage, yet maintain warmth and depth and add more bass punch. Can anyone recommend some tubes (inexpensive) and where to start looking to purchase them. Also think I should get a second set of stock tubes for that day that's sure to come - any idea where I can also get them other than from original LD supplier. Geez, I love my amp!!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The MK III stock tubes are GE 5654's and the power tubes are 6N6P (or 6H6P)....some times you'll get the better 6N6P-I derivative but that's rare.

 Peete._

 

OK that's what I thought... except mine must have been worn because I can't find any that are clearly those... oops. What should the markings look like? Maybe I can tell based on what little faded bit is left...


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *charliex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Couple questions about my LD MK III (and my growing love for this fantastic tube amp). I run all my cans through them (see signature), but primarily my HD 580's, and secondarily my MS 1's. I've had the amp for a couple months and am ready to try some tube rolling. Looking to broaden soundstage, yet maintain warmth and depth and add more bass punch. Can anyone recommend some tubes (inexpensive) and where to start looking to purchase them. Also think I should get a second set of stock tubes for that day that's sure to come - any idea where I can also get them other than from original LD supplier. Geez, I love my amp!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You should read back in this thread - even just to my post a few posts up. try the Mullard m8161. And try eBay Store - Yen Audio: Little Dot, 6ak5, Little Dot headphone amp - not cheap but top quality, usually matched, and great service.


----------



## cloverp

hi all
 im new to the little dot tube family, having just recently bought the mkIII and loving it, i have a few noob questions that i want to ask:
 im looking at yen audio, and i want to ask if i want to replace the stock tubes with Mullard CV131 / 6CQ6 Little Dot Amp M8161 CV4015 EF92 and 6H6P-I Little Dot Amp Power Tube Upgrade 6N6 MATCHED PR, do i just replace them directly? i read that with the ef92 tubes, you need to have the jumper on, i dont quite understand what is this jumper thing? how do i change the jumper setting? what do i need to do? and for the power tubes, i want to ask the same question, do i need to change the jumper? can i directly replace them?

 many many thanks


----------



## erikzen

What I would do if I were you, is just let the stock tubes burn in for a while. While you're listening to the amp burn in, read all 100 pages of posts in this thread and you'll probably have your answers. And this way, by the time your tubes come in you'll have an excellent idea of what your amp sounds like stock so when you change tubes you'll recongize the difference better.

 But yeah, there are jumpers on the board that can be accessed from the bottom of the amp. Jumpers are switches, like you find on some computer equipment. You have to set the switches correctly for the amp to work properly.

 Now, how do you change the jumper settings? That, is an excellent question. I don't honestly know because I haven't tried to do it.

 You see, I'm new to Little Dot too and my amp has less than 20 hours on it. I couldn't resist buying some new tubes from Yen either, but I bought the Voshod 6J1P-EV / 6AK5 tubes so I don't need to change the jumpers when I'm finally ready to try them out.


----------



## 928GTS

I wish more people would realize you could get some great tubes at on eBay from other dealers than Yen at a much reduced price. I've noticed that Yen's prices are usually far above market price.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *928GTS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish more people would realize you could get some great tubes at on eBay from other dealers than Yen at a much reduced price. I've noticed that Yen's prices are usually far above market price._

 

No doubt, and nearly every recommendation for Yen comes with the disclaimer that his prices are high. The thing is, you know what you get with Yen - he matches his tubes and offers great service, and tends to find the tubes people really want. That said, by all means people should search around - that's what ebay is all about. The recos for Yen are really about people who don't feel like searching that much, or want a good place to start looking.


----------



## erikzen

I did not find the Voshod tubes that were recommended to me in this thread anyplace else on eBay or other sites. Since these are not super expensive tubes and this is my first foray into buying tubes I might as well go with a trusted source.

 One poster in this thread was saying what a great deal he was getting from another vendor and then reported that one shipment wasn't exactly what he thought he was getting. So was it bait and switch, an honest mistake, or a little bit of both? I haven't read any negative feedback on Yen other than pricing, but since when have Head-Fiers put cost above quality? 

 That being said, for particular tubes that I may be looking for in the future, I will definitely look around. If I find other sources, I will be sure to post here. Hopefully, anyone else who finds a good supplier will share here also and not hoarde all the tubes for himself!


----------



## intoart

Same question I posted in the MKIV thread: Would the MKIII be a _huge_ upgrade from the I+? (And would it be disappointing compared to the MKIV?)


----------



## 928GTS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No doubt, and nearly every recommendation for Yen comes with the disclaimer that his prices are high. The thing is, you know what you get with Yen - he matches his tubes and offers great service, and tends to find the tubes people really want. That said, by all means people should search around - that's what ebay is all about. The recos for Yen are really about people who don't feel like searching that much, or want a good place to start looking._

 

I've bought quite a few tubes for both of my amplifiers and none of the tubes I purchased have been considered "matched" and yet I've never had a problem with channel imbalance.

 I wouldn't have a problem if his matching service was a few dollars above what people usually charge for the same tube but often its something more on the order of 35% or higher which I do not find acceptable.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *928GTS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've bought quite a few tubes for both of my amplifiers and none of the tubes I purchased have been considered "matched" and yet I've never had a problem with channel imbalance.

 I wouldn't have a problem if his matching service was a few dollars above what people usually charge for the same tube but often its something more on the order of 35% or higher which I do not find acceptable._

 

Fair enough - noone is forcing you to buy from anyone. To each their own. There's more to it than just the matching, but I completely see where you are coming from.


----------



## erikzen

It would be good if this thread could also be a resource or buying guide for Little Dot MKIII tubes. Ideally, any time someone buys tubes they would post here, what, when, where they bought and how much, with a link to the source. The original poster could then edit the first post so anyone reading the thread could immediately see where to buy tubes.

 This may merit a thread of it's own but this might be a good place to start.


----------



## tescosamoa

I have the mkivse.

 Been listening to the combo of

 power NOS 5687 Tung-sol

 driver Western Electric 403b 

 I like this combo. Very quiet when there is no music. 
 I have put about 100 hours on this combo..... I purchased the littledot with a ton of tubes and this is my first set that I am listening to.

 So far I am really enjoying this combo.


----------



## erikzen

I've read that the amp needs upwards of 75 hours to burn in. What about tubes, when do they hit their stride?


----------



## SilverShadow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read that the amp needs upwards of 75 hours to burn in. What about tubes, when do they hit their stride?_

 

It depends on the tubes themselves. That being said, I've never read of tubes that needed more than 100 hrs of burn-in. Some tubes probably need significantly less than that, though.


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SilverShadow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends on the tubes themselves. _

 

I have the stock tubes, GE5654 and 6H6PI. I'm more concerned with the driver tubes since I already have tubes to roll for those.


----------



## erikzen

I was checking out some of the tubes at TubeWorld

https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm

 It seems they have some interesting tube selections and the prices seem reasonable.

 I'm thinking about getting a matched pair of EF95 Mullard Whyteleaf Plant NOS 1958 D Getter Halo $50

 and

 JRP-6AK5W Raytheon Black Plate NOS 1952 with "anchor" symbol (US Navy) $25

 Good tubes?

 Good prices?


----------



## SilverShadow

^^

 Personally, I have very little exact knowledge about tubes. My comment was based on things I've read on this forum. Someone wiser will probably give some more exact advice. At least I hope so. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry about possible spelling errors. I have a flu and I'm too tired to think clearly (can't keep myself off these forums even though I know I should).


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SilverShadow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^

 Personally, I have very little exact knowledge about tubes._

 

Thanks for your response.

 I was throwing the question out to the larger group in case anyone had any specific information on either the tubes I'm looking at or TubeWord in general.


----------



## 928GTS

TubeWorld is expeeeeeeensive. I've looked at some of their rates for some of the tubes they sell and they're really up there. The prices you found don't seem to be that bad but look for some of their rates on 12AX7's,for example.

 Just look for a good dealer on eBay and you'll save yourself considerable green.

 However I DO recommend using TubeWorld as a great reference site to see many different brands and types of tubes.


----------



## erikzen

There seems to be two different kind of tube sellers out there. Those that cater to audiophiles and those that cater to vintage and ham radio aficionados. The audiophile dealers prices are 10 times that of the vintage radio guys. However, from the websites I've found it seems like the audiophile sellers give detailed descriptions of the tubes, describing plates, getters and markings on the tubes.

 The ham radio dealers just say "6AK5 - $4.00 each". There is no mention of brand, or even country of origin. Usually they are not offering matched pairs either. I'm not sure how important that is.

 I suppose if you called up one of these "ham" dealers you could get more information and possibly even tell them what you're looking for.


----------



## 928GTS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There seems to be two different kind of tube sellers out there. Those that cater to audiophiles and those that cater to vintage and ham radio aficionados. The audiophile dealers prices are 10 times that of the vintage radio guys. However, from the websites I've found it seems like the audiophile sellers give detailed descriptions of the tubes, describing plates, getters and markings on the tubes.

 The ham radio dealers just say "6AK5 - $4.00 each". There is no mention of brand, or even country of origin. Usually they are not offering matched pairs either. I'm not sure how important that is.

 I suppose if you called up one of these "ham" dealers you could get more information and possibly even tell them what you're looking for._

 

I haven't found that to be the case on eBay. Certainly I agree with you in the sense that I've seen examples like that on the web but these are usually ham/vintage radio dealers that sell a large array of tubes. Keep looking and you'll find a good dealer. Its worth spending a little bit of time to look for a good deal on a well described item,you'll save a considerable amount of money.


----------



## Skylab

Tubeworld tubes are great but they are expensive I agree. But you know exactly what you are getting. Same with Tubedepot.com.


----------



## ScottieB

Yeah in general my experience has been that you can take your chances with inexpensive places or auctions, but you're taking a risk of getting "bad" tubes or even just boring tubes. Thanks in part to head-fi (and other audiophiles), the tubes that have been discovered as "fun" or whatever word you wish to use have seen very large markups. BUT when you buy from established sellers who match the tubes, you at least know you are getting something nice (and good service).

 I took my chances and bought a "lot" of 25 tubes off ebay. I got a pair of Tung Sols which are nice (but not matched) and the rest were all kinda meh... all the tubes I've bought from Yen have been more expensive, but they are all top notch.

 Guess it all has to do with which approach you prefer to take... risk or instant gratification...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Don't forget the difference in cost is usually measured by NOS (tested and matched) vs used. Most of the Ham Radio stuff is pulls or used tubes while the Audiophile stuff is NOS for the most part.

 12AX7's are expensive and have been for quite some time as are EL34's.....both have been heavily used for guitar amps for years and years...the supply is drying up of the best types in NOS condition.

 Have a look at matched quads of EL34 Mullard XF2's...10 years ago that quad would have been 200-300US...now they start at 600 +......same can said for the 12AX7's...the most sought after brands and manufacturer....cost is ridiculous now because demand outweighs supply by a huge factor. Anyone that says new production tubes are just as good as their NOS counterparts has been on crack too long...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nothing like a Marshall 100W running all NOS glass...the SQ difference is astonishing. But will cost 1/2 of what the amp does now. (2500 US for the JVM410H for instance).

 Peete.


----------



## 928GTS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah in general my experience has been that you can take your chances with inexpensive places or auctions, but you're taking a risk of getting "bad" tubes or even just boring tubes. Thanks in part to head-fi (and other audiophiles), the tubes that have been discovered as "fun" or whatever word you wish to use have seen very large markups. BUT when you buy from established sellers who match the tubes, you at least know you are getting something nice (and good service).

 I took my chances and bought a "lot" of 25 tubes off ebay. I got a pair of Tung Sols which are nice (but not matched) and the rest were all kinda meh... all the tubes I've bought from Yen have been more expensive, but they are all top notch.

 Guess it all has to do with which approach you prefer to take... risk or instant gratification... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well see I *can't* afford to take the established dealer route. My brain and its decision of value just won't let me and neither will my wallet. 

 There is also a large difference between buying in bulk and buying cheap. Buying in quantities of 25 or something is taking a risk because you're really unsure of what you're getting and thus the pricing will be considerably lower. However what I'm saying is buying either a matched pair or quad of a tube from an eBay dealer selling the brand and specification you want for the lowest price. You can find good savings here without having to deal with the markups that dealers like Yen stick upon their offerings.

 I've bought something like 15 or so dealings in tubes like this,never really worried about people matching a tube within an inch of its live on their "recently calibrated" tester and I've never had an issue with channel imbalance.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't forget the difference in cost is usually measured by NOS (tested and matched) vs used. Most of the Ham Radio stuff is pulls or used tubes while the Audiophile stuff is NOS for the most part.

 12AX7's are expensive and have been for quite some time as are EL34's.....both have been heavily used for guitar amps for years and years...the supply is drying up of the best types in NOS condition.

 Have a look at matched quads of EL34 Mullard XF2's...10 years ago that quad would have been 200-300US...now they start at 600 +......same can said for the 12AX7's...the most sought after brands and manufacturer....cost is ridiculous now because demand outweighs supply by a huge factor. Anyone that says new production tubes are just as good as their NOS counterparts has been on crack too long...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nothing like a Marshall 100W running all NOS glass...the SQ difference is astonishing. But will cost 1/2 of what the amp does now. (2500 US for the JVM410H for instance).

 Peete._

 

Whats wrong with slightly used? I'm not sure what the magic halo is surrounding NOS tubes and how you're on something if you don't buy NOS. Personally I'd much rather buy a tube that tests 85-90% and save 35% over buying a tube that is NOS. Even with the best dealer,how do they even know the tube is NOS? There have been tubes that even when used for a few months in its application will still test at or above new levels. Personally I think NOS is just an excuse to raise prices. You can tell more if a tube is NOS from how it looks structurally(flashing,plate condition,etc)than what it tests on a tester. 

 600+ for a quad of XF2's is outrageous and I'm not sure where you're getting your prices from. I've seen quads of strong XF2's go for ~$200-350. Its still a large amount of money but thats why there are great alternatives to the Mullard like American brands like RCA and Sylvania and German brands like Telefunken/RFT if you don't want to pay an average car payment on tubes.

 I *really* do love my NOS glass,its just I will never let myself pay an arm and a leg for them just because they're from some dealer that everyone drops to their knees and worships with reverence for fear that they might not re list that last pair of XF1's or bump up the price another 20%. If I can't get what I want within my budget I'll just be patient and wait,I know I'll eventually find a deal that I'll be happy with at a price I can afford.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I didn't say there was anything wrong with either........I'm just saying the audiophile stuff is almost always NOS condition and you pay for that accordingly.

 I have a mix of both..used and NOS. There is no way I can afford NOS Mullard/Seimens EL34's unless I win the lottery 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That being said I buy what I can find that is reasonable cost...most of it used but some of it NOS and matched if the deal is good. 

 Cheers bro...used can be just as good 90% of the time
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## 928GTS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't say there was anything wrong with either........I'm just saying the audiophile stuff is almost always NOS condition and you pay for that accordingly.

 I have a mix of both..used and NOS. There is no way I can afford NOS Mullard/Seimens EL34's unless I win the lottery 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That being said I buy what I can find that is reasonable cost...most of it used but some of it NOS and matched if the deal is good. 

 Cheers bro...used can be just as good 90% of the time
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Yeah,sorry if I came across as harsh. I didn't mean to be in the least. Siemens expensive? I remember a pair of 34's going for under $100 but they were lightly used. Mullards,however,are a different story!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *928GTS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah,sorry if I came across as harsh. I didn't mean to be in the least. Siemens expensive? I remember a pair of 34's going for under $100 but they were lightly used. Mullards,however,are a different story! _

 

NP....I just got through checking a good place for NOS Glass....metal base Amperex 34's at get this 800 a pair.......the guy was SOLD OUT....the Mullard XF1's 275 Ea......SIGH.....it's nuts. Those are the 2 best 34's ever made (late 50's)...crazy ass prices. NOS platinum matched in original boxes and pristine silk screening or printing....sure they are the real deal...but man...I need to find a boat load of these in Truk lagoon or something...they are worth almost as much a gold...

 Peete.

 Whoops seems I was mistaken...the metal base pair is 1195US (1955 Amperex made, Mullard labeled). Sheesh...sure I'll take a matched Octet my man....worth more than my damn car.


----------



## 928GTS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_NP....I just got through checking a good place for NOS Glass....metal base Amperex 34's at get this 800 a pair.......the guy was SOLD OUT....the Mullard XF1's 275 Ea......SIGH.....it's nuts. Those are the 2 best 34's ever made (late 50's)...crazy ass prices. NOS platinum matched in original boxes and pristine silk screening or printing....sure they are the real deal...but man...I need to find a boat load of these in Truk lagoon or something...they are worth almost as much a gold...

 Peete.

 Whoops seems I was mistaken...the metal base pair is 1195US (1955 Amperex made, Mullard labeled). Sheesh...sure I'll take a matched Octet my man....worth more than my damn car._

 

Oh goodness once you go metal base just forget it because the prices are out the window and over the roof. People are charging more than an arm and *two* legs for those. You really wonder if you can honestly hear a difference between an XF1 and an XF2 or 3.


----------



## ScottieB

So it's been a while and I'm looking to spring for a new pair of tubes - probably from yen. I read this thread a while back and have my eyes on the GE 5-stars and the Tung Sol 6AK5W. Would someone who has heard either or both of these please share your thoughts - sound sigs and maybe why you'd prefer one over the other? Thx.


----------



## erikzen

Do you guys think this is a good deal?

Quad Mullard EF95 6AK5 5654 CV4010 CV850 NOS NIB MINT - eBay (item 140277583273 end time Feb-23-09 00:51:18 PST)

 With shipping it's a little over $11 per tube. The seller does not say if they are tested or matched.

 What is that black disk on the bottom, is that just a cap to protect the pins?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is that black disk on the bottom, is that just a cap to protect the pins?_

 

Yes


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Pench would know better Scottie about those two types.....he's down and out for now though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tough to say if those are worthwhile or not at that price erikzen....google them and see what comes up.....they do have good labels and original boxes...depends on the decade of manufacture. 50 and 60's are the sought after years with 70's and 80's less so...of course the early 70's being still considered late 60's quality levels (if that isn't confusing enough for you).

 Peete.


----------



## intoart

I have bought some extremely expensive Tung Sol 408As for my I+. If I upgrade to the MKIII, will I be able to use them, or are they an incompatible family?


----------



## Sparky14

OK guys, I've got the Mullards here, ready to do my first tube rolling.

 So, 1st newbie question.......how do I get the tubes out? Pull? Twist?


----------



## Skylab

You VERY gently rock the tube with a small circular motion while pulling upward. VERY gently, and very small circle.

 You get the hang of it quickly.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *intoart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have bought some extremely expensive Tung Sol 408As for my I+. If I upgrade to the MKIII, will I be able to use them, or are they an incompatible family?_

 

The 408A uses a different heater V than the EF95/6AK5/5654 tubes so you can't use them in the MK III. Sorry to say. Tung Sol 403b's do work in the MK III though.

 Peete.


----------



## Sparky14

Thanks Skylab, just didn't want to screw up something first time out. Worked fine.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You VERY gently rock the tube with a small circular motion while pulling upward. VERY gently, and very small circle.

 You get the hang of it quickly._

 

Hence the term "rolling"


----------



## intoart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 408A uses a different heater V than the EF95/6AK5/5654 tubes so you can't use them in the MK III. Sorry to say. Tung Sol 403b's do work in the MK III though.

 Peete._

 

Damn, that is unfortunate. If I can't recoup my $77 (with shipping) for the tubes, this will impact my decision on whether or not to invest in the upgrade.

 If I am lucky, the I+ will sound so good with the Tung Sols that I will lose the upgrade bug! (Not sure when they will actually arrive.)


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *intoart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn, that is unfortunate. If I can't recoup my $77 (with shipping) for the tubes, this will impact my decision on whether or not to invest in the upgrade.

 If I am lucky, the I+ will sound so good with the Tung Sols that I will lose the upgrade bug! (Not sure when they will actually arrive.)_

 

If you do upgrade do you plan to sell the I+? No doubt you could get more for it if you sell it as "upgraded" with the tubes included... just a thought.


----------



## mudhole

I just got 4 matched 6Zh1P-EVs which I purchesed from an Ukraine dealer on ebay. 
6Zh1P-EV/6J1P-EV/EF95/6F32/6AK7 NOS! MATCHED!! tubes #4 - (eBay.ca item 130281239812 end time 12-Feb-09 12:38:05 EST)

 Total cost is $17, much cheaper than yen's. They shipped out on next day and emailed me a notice with a nice picture of the parcel. It took 10days to Canada.

 The tubes were very well packed. Tubes are wrapped by plastic foam. There are some numbers wroten on each tube, such as 115/118, 114/118. I wrote a email to ask him the meaning of the numbers, he replied after a second and said the numbers are the voltages from test. That means they really did some matching test.

 Highly recommend this guy. *Trust=money saver *on ebay.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I put them on my mk3, I immediately heard the difference with the stock tubes( with 40hrs burn in). The bass was deeper and high was detailed. Nice tubes for my K701. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I am So excited with my first tube rolling, at least I can hear something different.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And thank you, SocctieB, peete, Penchman..........


----------



## erikzen

Nice find!

 As an aside, I did not notice too much of a difference with these tubes as compared to stock. I found the soundstage to be wider with the Voshods but perhaps a bit mushy sounding. I've got to give both the stock and the Voshods more burn in time I guess. GEs - 18 hours, Voshods - 6 hours. The amp only has 24 hours on it total so maybe that has something to do with it to.


----------



## mudhole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice find!

 As an aside, I did not notice too much of a difference with these tubes as compared to stock. I found the soundstage to be wider with the Voshods but perhaps a bit mushy sounding. I've got to give both the stock and the Voshods more burn in time I guess. GEs - 18 hours, Voshods - 6 hours. The amp only has 24 hours on it total so maybe that has something to do with it to._

 

I am a newbie here, until now I cannot say which tube is better than which one. I only can say that I hear something different from these two tubes and I am pretty sure that the bass is much deeper from my k701s. 

 Anyway I have to keep trainning my ears.


----------



## SilverShadow

Those Voshods need something like 30-60hrs to mature and the last thing to change is the mushy sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The amp is also said to need about 100 hrs. The sound cleans up and becomes more extended, IMO. I can promise you, after these tubes (and amp) have fully matured, the sound is very clean and extended. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The improvement was apparent over my MKIV stock tubes. At least these are my amateur findings with my MKIV.

 And *mudhole*, I agree 120% with you and several others before us: these tubes sure are a must for K701. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice find!

 As an aside, I did not notice too much of a difference with these tubes as compared to stock. I found the soundstage to be wider with the Voshods but perhaps a bit mushy sounding. I've got to give both the stock and the Voshods more burn in time I guess. GEs - 18 hours, Voshods - 6 hours. The amp only has 24 hours on it total so maybe that has something to do with it to._


----------



## erikzen

I just picked up two new sets of tubes. One was basically a mystery buy of 2 RCA Command 5654 tubes, untested, but claim to be NOS. They were $4 each so I figure why not.

 The other are two M8161 tubes for $25. A bit pricy but half the price that Yen sells them for.

 We shall see...


----------



## xuan87

just want to ask about hyperlight-research on ebay. they sell alot of nice looking tubes on ebay, and they have good feedback. with no prior in tubes, i'll like to ask the more experienced ones about their prices: are they reasonable, too expensive, or a bargain? one good thing about them is that the shipping stays the same no matter how many tubes you buy from them at 1 time.


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just picked up two new sets of tubes. One was basically a mystery buy of 2 RCA Command 5654 tubes, untested, but claim to be NOS. They were $4 each so I figure why not.

 The other are two M8161 tubes for $25. A bit pricy but half the price that Yen sells them for.

 We shall see..._

 

I received the RCA tubes yesterday in the mail and I'm just now opening up the box. I was going to roll in the tubes but after examining them I realized they are not both RCA tubes. Both have the printing on the glass partially removed. However, I can still see the remnants of the GE logo on one. The other one does look like an RCA tube but now I have two completely different tubes. 

 Plugging them in, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with them. Are they better than the GEs or the Voshods? Too early to tell.


----------



## erikzen

FYI, I wrote to the seller "bigskysupply" and told them what happened. I didn't complain too strongly, ask for a refund, or threaten to leave negative feedback, but all they said was thanks for pointing it out and next time they would try to be more careful.

 I could have asked for a replacement but I didn't think it was worth the hassle for a $2 tube. Anyway, I plugged both tubes into my amp and it sounds fine. I'm not sure there's any improvement but it certainly doesn't sound bad.


----------



## wizia

What would be the best tubes for the DT880's?


----------



## Jon G.

Ordered them Thursday, shipped Saturday evening, arrived today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Three are 6AK5 with 'AZ' markings and one with 'BU'. I popped out the stock GE 5654s and stuck two of the 6AK5 'AZ's in.

 Right off the bat they're a little more open and the bass is a bit punchier than the GEs.

 For $19.64 shipped with insurance, I'd say these are pretty good.


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wizia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What would be the best tubes for the DT880's?_

 

2nd this. Just picked up an '03 880 an a LDMKIII


----------



## intoart

I know that it is important for pairs of tubes to be matched. What about matching between power tubes and output tubes, though? Do certain families work better together than others? Is it best if all four tubes are the same brand?


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *intoart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know that it is important for pairs of tubes to be matched._

 

Is this really true? I know that conventional wisdom is that you need to have matched tubes, but do we place too much of a premium on this?

 I recently bought a pair of tubes that were supposed to be NOS RCA 5456 Commands as posted a few posts back. When I got the tubes I found that they weren't even the same brand let alone matched. (They were not sold as matched although they were both sold as RCA tubes.) Listening to them, I don't hear any channel imbalance and the sound is just fine, really not much different from the stock tubes (one of the tubes happens to be a GE).

 No sweat on this since the tubes were only $4 each, but I'm wondering if the importance of matched pairs is overstated. We could all save a ton of money if we're willing to accept unmatched pairs. I suppose some unmatched tubes could be so unmatched as to provide an unbalanced sound but I don't know enough about tubes yet to know if that is actually the case.


----------



## Max F

I've almost made it through the whole thread. The power tubes are the most confusing part of the amp. 

 The stock MKIII power tubes are 6H6pi (6H6n). Are these the same as 6N6P as seen on ebay?

 Are the 6N6P-i the same as 6N30P used on the MKIV?

 And what the heck are 6N6 used in the MKII are they the same as 6H6?

 I'm mainly concerned about getting the best power tubes for my MKIII without modification.


----------



## spt1224

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The stock MKIII power tubes are 6H6pi (6H6n). Are these the same as 6N6P as seen on ebay?_

 

No, the stock 6N6P-I (6Н6П-И) and 6N6P (6Н6П) are not exactly the same models, but they _are_ very similar, and both can be used in the MKIII. I recently e-mailed David about this:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *David @ Little-Tube (on Thursday)* 
_Yes, you should be able to use the 6N6P tubes. They are slightly different but we've recently tested several batches of these and they work just fine._

 

I doubt they'll be an improvement over the stock tubes, but it is good to know they'll work as replacement tubes.

  Quote:


 And what the heck are 6N6 used in the MKII are they the same as 6H6? 
 

All I know is that Н, П, and И in Cyrillic (Russian, Ukrainian, etc.) are equivalent to N, P, and I, respectively, in the Latin alphabet. So you'll often see the tube models represented by what the Cyrillic letters look like (such as 6H6N-N) instead of the correct translations (such as 6N6P-I).


----------



## Max F

Thanks for that, but now I'm confused. The stock tubes i have (just got my MKIII two days ago) say 6Н6П. So, did the older MKIIIs ship with the 6Н6П-И?

 The 6N6P (6Н6П) seem more plentiful and cheaper on ebay. Has anyone compared the 6N6P with 6N6P-I?


----------



## csommers

Mine is coming Tuesday, can't wait to give it a listen. I think I'll give the stock tubes a few weeks of listening before I swap them out for something better.


----------



## spt1224

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that, but now I'm confused. The stock tubes i have (just got my MKIII two days ago) say 6Н6П. So, did the older MKIIIs ship with the 6Н6П-И?_

 

Yes, mine are 6Н6П-И (I got my MKIII in August). I would guess they're running out of the 6Н6П-И tubes, hence why they've been testing (and obviously using) the 6Н6П instead.


----------



## esirex

Does anyone have problem with EF91 tubes on Grados and Alessandro headphones? My MS2 seems to sound distorted on the Mazda and GEC EF91 tubes...but they really sound excellent on my ER4s...I begin to wonder if EF91 tubes suits higher impedance headphones.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *esirex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have problem with EF91 tubes on Grados and Alessandro headphones? My MS2 seems to sound distorted on the Mazda and GEC EF91 tubes...but they really sound excellent on my ER4s...I begin to wonder if EF91 tubes suits higher impedance headphones._

 

That was the consensus reached earlier in the thread, I think. Early on the only people who tried them were using Senns, it wasn't until later when lower impedance cans were tested that this was noticed. I've noticed it TINY bit with my low impedance Ultrasones, but they can have slight sibilance with just about anything.. then again I haven't used my EF91s in a while...


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spt1224* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, mine are 6Н6П-И (I got my MKIII in August). I would guess they're running out of the 6Н6П-И tubes, hence why they've been testing (and obviously using) the 6Н6П instead._

 

Hey spt1224, I see you've got some 6Н6П coming in. Let me know how they compare to your 6Н6П-И. Oh and thanks for using these cool russian fonts!


----------



## spt1224

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey spt1224, I see you've got some 6Н6П coming in. Let me know how they compare to your 6Н6П-И._

 

I will, but it might not be of much use, since I ordered them due to problems (I think) with the stock tubes... volume imbalance, and some distortion above 60% volume. When working properly, I would imagine the tubes would sound pretty similar, though, especially considering people say the power tubes only account for 15% of the sound quality.


----------



## m0ofassa

ive got some 6Н6П running in my LDMKIII and it sounds great (paired with M8100s - big shield). Cant really compare it to stuff. wanting to get some backup power tubes...
 edit: im thinking about getting sone 6N6P, though I have a feeling this is just an alternate t/l of 6h6


----------



## wizia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wizia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What would be the best tubes for the DT880's?_

 

Please, anyone? Also where can I purchase tubes? (Must ship to Europe)


----------



## flecom

just to throw my .02 in, about the whole EF91 thing...

 i put in a pair of Mullard EF91/6AM6's in my LDIII and it sounds just fine, more than just fine actually, sounds awesome, worlds better than the original tubes... the only thing ive noted is if the music has lots of bass, like LOTS, it tends to distort the low end a little

 i bought them at a ham fest (ham radio swap meet) for $4.25, the guy put them in his tube tester and they both tested strong, unknown if used or NOS, they were in their boxes...

 im using them with HD650's


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flecom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just to throw my .02 in, about the whole EF91 thing...

 i put in a pair of Mullard EF91/6AM6's in my LDIII and it sounds just fine, more than just fine actually, sounds awesome, worlds better than the original tubes... the only thing ive noted is if the music has lots of bass, like LOTS, it tends to distort the low end a little

 i bought them at a ham fest (ham radio swap meet) for $4.25, the guy put them in his tube tester and they both tested strong, unknown if used or NOS, they were in their boxes...

 im using them with HD650's_

 

Which speaks exactly to what has been said - you're using high-impedance cans, which don't seem to have any issues. Its the lower impedance headphones that seem to have some sibilance with the EF91s.


----------



## flecom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which speaks exactly to what has been said - you're using high-impedance cans, which don't seem to have any issues. Its the lower impedance headphones that seem to have some sibilance with the EF91s._

 

well i read all 104 pages and somehow missed that... im wondering why the impedence would matter since the EF91 would be followed by both the output tube and the output capacitors...


----------



## ScottieB

It was actually touched on again just a few days ago. I'm not an expert but I think that is was determined that the EF91's draw more current than either EF95 (175mA) or EF92 (200) -- forget the number on the 91s -- which I suppose could cause issues... I don't know that a consensus was ever reached, though.


----------



## godspeed

hello guys, 

 I'd like some advise for my beloved SR325i 

 Considering I already have the LD I+ with LT1364 opamp and some nice tubes (mullard 6AK5W, WE408A, mullard M8161...) and that I am in love with the sound produced

 Do you consider that acquiring the LD MKIII (pure tube amp) will be an improvement for me or the Hybrid LDI + is best amp between the two I can have for my SR325i

 thank guys, 

 keep on the good job.


----------



## One Fan To Another

Well, after letting these tubes burn in for 30 hours or so I can do a small review:

 Recently I picked up a match set of the Vishod pre-amp tubes everyone's been mentioning lately to try in place of the Sylvania Golds I had in my MKIII for a long while.

 As another poster mentioned you can, in fact, hear an immediate difference with these tubes. Usually tubes have such subtle differences that you really have to train your ears to know what to look for but I could tell there was something going on in the low end with the Vishods right away. Compared to the Golds they definitely seem to be more suited to my AKG 701s than the Golds. The 701s, as everyone knows, has a tighter-than-a-snare-drum low end that needs a little kick in the ass to get moving. These tubes definitely provide more of that. The Golds did seem to be more... oh, I don't know... detailed maybe. There's definitely something more focused about the Vishods. It's as though sounds are more distinctly separated from each other but the stage itself isn't as wide or as sparkly than it was with the Sylvania Golds (that may be interpreted as "muddy" to some).

 Either way I'm keeping the Vishods in my MKIII for the foreseeable future (I listen to metal and progessive rock) but the Golds are staying close by. These good Vishod tubes are pretty damn cheap too if you look in the right places. I still need to try out some Mullard large shield M8161s, though.


----------



## crispyambulance

Is there a place to buy 6h6-pi (or better, I guess) power tubes for less than 50$ per matched pair? I've been looking on Ebay for a while but the best I've managed is getting burned for 2$ by a user who deleted his account yesterday.


----------



## Max F

Sure there's a bunch. Search: 6n6p or 6n6p-i

 I'm getting 10 in from:

RUSS TUBES 6N6P-I = ECC89 = E182CC Lot of 10. NEW! RARE - eBay (item 260363585328 end time Feb-23-09 12:13:33 PST)

 I just won the bid but haven't heard anything, so wish me luck. If they are good, I may trade somebody a pair or two for some other tubes.


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spt1224* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, the stock 6N6P-I (6Н6П-И) and 6N6P (6Н6П) are not exactly the same models, but they are very similar, and both can be used in the MKIII. I recently e-mailed David about this:



 I doubt they'll be an improvement over the stock tubes, but it is good to know they'll work as replacement tubes.



 All I know is that Н, П, and И in Cyrillic (Russian, Ukrainian, etc.) are equivalent to N, P, and I, respectively, in the Latin alphabet. So you'll often see the tube models represented by what the Cyrillic letters look like (such as 6H6N-N) instead of the correct translations (such as 6N6P-I)._

 

Also re-read this post.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I just won the bid but haven't heard anything, so wish me luck. If they are good, I may trade somebody a pair or two for some other tubes._

 


 Seller is in Ukraine, so probably sleeping. You should be fine - but good luck!


----------



## crispyambulance

I didn't know that putting the dash between the P and the I was another way of writing the name!

 Though none of the ones that come up in a search are matched; is that very rare?

 Thanks.


----------



## m0ofassa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flecom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just to throw my .02 in, about the whole EF91 thing...

 i put in a pair of Mullard EF91/6AM6's in my LDIII and it sounds just fine, more than just fine actually, sounds awesome, worlds better than the original tubes... the only thing ive noted is if the music has lots of bass, like LOTS, it tends to distort the low end a little

 i bought them at a ham fest (ham radio swap meet) for $4.25, the guy put them in his tube tester and they both tested strong, unknown if used or NOS, they were in their boxes...

 im using them with HD650's_

 

I had similar problems with the amp, but then turned down my source (currently using an analog output) and found that the amp no longer clipped.
 Could it be a clipping issue? (say if you are using a 24bit source at 100% volume)


----------



## Max F

Curious, I wonder if the EF91s are more sensitive to source voltage. I still need to find some EF91s to put in my MKIII to try it out. However, my source is pretty loud (2v) - Squeezebox3.


----------



## mudhole

I just won a pair of Amperex5654 / 6AK5 from yen's at $37.66 which I thought it was a good price.
 I am so happy with the 6Zh1P-EVs which makes the bass of my K701s much better than the stock tube did. I hope the Amperex 6AK5 could lift the veil of my HD650s.
 Am I right?


----------



## mudhole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@erikzen- no doubt things will open up considerably with use, but while I am no expert on your equipment, from what you said about wanting to bring vocals and crispness up a bit, I found the 6ZH1P to do just that. 
VOSHOD 6ZH1P-EV / 6AK5 NOS Little Dot Amplifier EF95 - eBay (item 280268869219 end time Feb-16-09 01:56:57 PST)



 This is very interesting as I was told I had one of the first v2.0s... but when I contacted David he had a slightly different take:

 "To answer your question, there are no version of the Little Dot MK III that can use the 6H30 type tubes and be completely stable in doing so. While theoretically you could use them, the setup will not be optimal and is not recommended." 

 Just wanted to put that out there. Did sword say anything about the stability of it?_

 

I just comfirmed with sword-yang that the new version (v2.0) can directly use 6H30Pi without any resistor mod. I will try to find a pair of them later. I feel too sorry about my wallet these two months.


----------



## erikzen

When did version 2.0 start shipping? I got my amp in January.


----------



## ScottieB

I believe it was last Summer. I got mine in June, and was told at the time I was "one of the first" to get the revised model. If you look thru the holes on the bottom though it should be printed on the PCB - it is on mine.


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mudhole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just won a pair of Amperex5654 / 6AK5 from yen's at $37.66 which I thought it was a good price.
 I am so happy with the 6Zh1P-EVs which makes the bass of my K701s much better than the stock tube did. I hope the Amperex 6AK5 could lift the veil of my HD650s.
 Am I right?_

 

IMHO, the veil of HD650 is caused by the stock cable, I don't think any tube can solve this root cause completely.


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mudhole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just comfirmed with sword-yang that the new version (v2.0) can directly use 6H30Pi without any resistor mod. I will try to find a pair of them later. I feel too sorry about my wallet these two months.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So have you tried them yet?


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManAtWork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMHO, the veil of HD650 is caused by the stock cable, I don't think any tube can solve this root cause completely._

 

Mine seem to have lost the veil while breaking in my amp. And if you really want to loose it, try some EF91 tubes which will add quite a bit of air. You may wonder what happen to the bass!


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mudhole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just comfirmed with sword-yang that the new version (v2.0) can directly use 6H30Pi without any resistor mod. I will try to find a pair of them later. I feel too sorry about my wallet these two months.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Actually, you may want to read this first:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5338813-post1455.html


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, you may want to read this first:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5338813-post1455.html_

 

Yes, this is the problem. Within this thread we have two different opinions on what power tubes can be used. On top of that, the two principals from Little Dot can't seem to agree either.

 I don't know that we have a definitive answer.


----------



## punk_guy182

Hey guys! I'm looking to get my hands on a new pair of tubes for my MK IV SE.
 I've read good comments about the military spec full shield Mullard M8161. Where can I get a tested and matched NOS pair of these?

 Would that be what I am looking for? Do they have the full large shield? EF92 6CQ6 M8161 CV4015 Mullard Tube Matched Quads - (eBay.ca item 380096201493 end time 12-Mar-09 14:16:45 EDT)


----------



## autosound

Hi guys, 
 New mkiii owner checking in. Any I'm pretty new to tubes and have some newbish questions for you guys. I think the ?getter?, or that silverish paint at the top of one of my tubes is fading, but isn't turning white, should this be time for concern? Also, I don't believe my unit has jumpers, but rather switches next to the capacitors, anyone know how this works? Does switch to the left = jumpers off and switches to the right = jumpers on? thanks


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *autosound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, 
 New mkiii owner checking in. Any I'm pretty new to tubes and have some newbish questions for you guys. I think the ?getter?, or that silverish paint at the top of one of my tubes is fading, but isn't turning white, should this be time for concern? Also, I don't believe my unit has jumpers, but rather switches next to the capacitors, anyone know how this works? Does switch to the left = jumpers off and switches to the right = jumpers on? thanks_

 

Not sure about the tube question, but yes, if you MKIII is new you will have switches instead of jumpers. So that makes two sets of switches - the red ones are for Gain, and the black ones are for the tubes. If you look closely, it is printed on the PCB which switch position is for which type of tube. By default they come set for EF95, so switch them both the other way and you've got EF92.


----------



## autosound

Thanks I can see what you're talking about. I also think my driver tube is going, probably going to need to be replaced soon. 

 Oh yea, your avatar makes me wanna vomit, ha.


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine seem to have lost the veil while breaking in my amp. And if you really want to loose it, try some EF91 tubes which will add quite a bit of air. You may wonder what happen to the bass!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I believe this breaking in is just improve the treble of your amp. I have done another experiment months ago, using my break-in Opera, upgrade the HD650 cable can immediately eliminate the vein. I think in your case, if you upgrade your stock cable, it would be much improved. Yes, I agreed that the bass of HD650 got improvement slightly after pairing with a tube amp.

 What EF91 tubes you have tried?


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys! I'm looking to get my hands on a new pair of tubes for my MK IV SE.
 I've read good comments about the military spec full shield Mullard M8161. Where can I get a tested and matched NOS pair of these?_

 

I don't know which version MK IV SE you're using, but the Mullard M8100 in current version is already the best Mullard military tube. If you want to have further improvement, try for some better EF95 series tubes. Like WE403A/B would be better than stick with Mullard. It depends on what kind of sound you prefer.

 I found another source beside of Yen Audio, who have a huge stock of EF95 NOS JAN tubes, most of them are manufactured before '70; not those '80 tubes Yen Audio selling. PM me if you are interested.


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManAtWork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe this breaking in is just improve the treble of your amp. I have done another experiment months ago, using my break-in Opera, upgrade the HD650 cable can immediately eliminate the vein. I think in your case, if you upgrade your stock cable, it would be much improved. Yes, I agreed that the bass of HD650 got improvement slightly after pairing with a tube amp.

 What EF91 tubes you have tried?_

 

They were Amperex EF91 tubes. Made my HD650s sound like my HD580s! One day, I may end up upgrading the cable.


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure about the tube question, but yes, if you MKIII is new you will have switches instead of jumpers. So that makes two sets of switches - the red ones are for Gain, and the black ones are for the tubes. If you look closely, it is printed on the PCB which switch position is for which type of tube. By default they come set for EF95, so switch them both the other way and you've got EF92._

 

Now don't I feel a little bit foolish. For some silly reason I thought you needed to switch the black switched AND cap them with the jumpers. I tried like heck to slide those jumpers over the black switches and was eventually able to do it, although I was wondering to myself what they could actually be doing. Now I realize they are doing absolutely nothing.


----------



## Headdie

Just won these old timers. Hoping there will be some juice remaining inside...


----------



## Max F

I got some Raytheon 1954 black plates (6AK5W) with D getters and they sound excellent with my HD650s.


----------



## m0ofassa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headdie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just won these old timers. Hoping there will be some juice remaining inside..._

 

$? Sound? etc?


----------



## Headdie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m0ofassa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$? Sound? etc?_

 

Sorry for the lack of details m0ofassa... I'll report as soon as I receive and listen to them... I've bought them 9.99 for a lot of four... I don't know if it's good or bad, it's my first tube purchase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Honestly, I bought them mostly because they were 1944. Just to think that I'll listen to something made for WWII makes me dream a bit...


----------



## MONGO70

Hi folks, wish I never found this place, but it's to late to turn back now. It all starts out innocently enough. I just needed a good set of headphones to monitor recordings on my reel to reel. I picked up some AKG-702's, Then I find out I need an amp to truly appreciate them. O.K. so I see the LD MK3 on ebay. I read a few good reviews, and figured for the price it's a no brainer. I'm still waiting on the amp and headphones. So while I'm waiting for items to arrive I some how ended up here. Wow you guys are awesome. I never had any idea this little amp was so flexible with all the different tube choices. So let the insanity begin.... to date I have purchased, RCA 5654/6J1, LM Ericsson 403B, VOSHOD 6ZH1P-EV, 6CQ6/EF-92, MULLARD M8100/EF-92, MULLARD M8161, MULLARD M8083/EF-91, GE 5 STAR 6AK5, WWII Raytheon 6AK5, and Electro Harmonix 6H30pi-EH power tubes. I'll try to give my impressions of the different tubes once I get everything going. Note to self, quit buying tubes, unless I find some Aperex5654's or Tung-Sol 403B's.


----------



## erikzen

Welcome to Head-Fi...

 Where did you hear about the LD if it wasn't on Head-Fi? Just curious.


----------



## MONGO70

Thanks for the welcome. To tell you the truth I'm not sure where I read all the reviews. I just googled the little dot and surfed like a mad man. Once I purchased it. I found this interesting thread on tube rolling. I'm only on page 26 of this thread. Wish I would of finished page 19? before I bought the EF-91's as I hear they are not so good. I'm also not sure if a resistor change is needed to run the Electro Harmonix 6H30pi-EH power tubes. Could someone clue me in. I'm reading all the posts, but there is a lot for a nube to absorb. Thanks


----------



## MONGO70

O.K. If I'm understanding what I read. To use 6H30pi-EH power tubes, the factory 68 ohm resistors need to be replaced with 120 ohm resistors. Is there a picture somewhere showing the two resistors in question?


----------



## Max F

Please read this thread!


----------



## MONGO70

I made the mistake of starting at page one of this thread. I made it to page 40 and then started reading here at the end, and read back about 10 pages. I think I understand now. The new version LD MKIII v2.0 is supposed to be compatible with the 6H30pi-EH, no modification needed. However some folks don't recommend using the 6H30pi, and some say it works fine for them. I plan on just enjoying the amp in its stock configuration for awhile, but at some point I'm going to experiment with different driver and power tubes. Well back to reading I got at least 50 more pages to go.


----------



## erikzen

Not to worry Mongo. Keep reading and enjoy your amp. If you have any questions go ahead and post them.

 I read this whole thread once through and then selected posts and I'm still confused over the power tubes. I'd like to try the 6H30pi-EH myself but I don't want to damage my amp or pay $70 for tubes that are going to burn out in a month.


----------



## ScottieB

Yeah after all the confusion with power tubes, and then the statement (forget who made it) that the power tube rolling would only make for a 10-20% difference (I think this was what they said), all combined with the fact that the handful of 100% compatible tubes are very very similar, I decided to just stick with stock power tubes... I have, however, spent a small fortune on driver tubes and have had tons of fun.

 So it's your call, but for me it came down to a risk/reward thing. Seeing as how it is my only tube amp, I didn't want to take any chances.


----------



## autosound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now don't I feel a little bit foolish. For some silly reason I thought you needed to switch the black switched AND cap them with the jumpers. I tried like heck to slide those jumpers over the black switches and was eventually able to do it, although I was wondering to myself what they could actually be doing. Now I realize they are doing absolutely nothing._

 

HAHA, this is hilarious. I'm not making fun but rather just picturing what it looks like capped with jumpers. I don't even know how that is possible from what I am looking at and if I have the right idea of what type of jumpers we are talking about. I was in the same shoes as you were, I had no clue what needed to be jumpered when I looked into the amp. Glad your amp is running smoothly though.


----------



## hyperlight-research

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xuan87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just want to ask about hyperlight-research on ebay. they sell alot of nice looking tubes on ebay, and they have good feedback. with no prior in tubes, i'll like to ask the more experienced ones about their prices: are they reasonable, too expensive, or a bargain? one good thing about them is that the shipping stays the same no matter how many tubes you buy from them at 1 time._

 

Well Xuan, let's start with the shipping. We figure, if the Postal Service charges us the same for shipping for one tube or ten tubes, we might as well pass that savings on to you guys. Systematically ripping customers off takes *way* too much effort. We'll leave that one to eBay... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If you really want to know ALL our secrets, postage costs the same from "empty box" to about ten 9-pin tubes (its in minimum weight class) and the "breaking" point is about eleven tubes. More than that and the weight exceeds 250 grams, the Post Office bumps it up to the next weight class, and we lose money on shipping. But nobody EVER orders that many tubes at the same time. (Dare ya!)

 As for the actual item price, whether the price of a tube we sell is reasonable/expensive/a bargain depends entirely on the people you're bidding against. 

 Selling tubes on the Internet is all about finding out what something is really "worth". Too much and nobody buys it, wasting time, too little and everybody buys it, wasting inventory. We strive to find the optimum price, maximizing value. As a company, we'd rather sell two tubes at $50.00 each than one tube at $80.00 because it brings in more total revenue. 

 We start tube auctions at our go/no-go cost, typically $10.00 US. Basically, if nobody is willing to pay the starting price, it's more economical for us to crush the tube than to sell it on eBay. After that point, it's entirely up to you guys. 

 But that's where things get crazy. Depending on the bidders you're up against, the selling price of two identical tubes could have a variance of 50%. For no measurable reason whatsoever. For us, like a casino, selling thousands of tubes, it all averages out. But for you, the player, making a bad bet can REALLY hurt.

 So make sure you research the price of what a tube is worth using eBay's "search for completed auctions" function before placing a bid. Note this only goes back a week or two. If you're buying expensive tubes with a low sell-through rate, you may want to subscribe to an eBay auction price analysis service like terrapeak.com that goes back up to 3 months.

 Items listed in our store are a completely different situation. Whether they are a good deal or not depends entirely on what the current price is at auction. When we post an item in our store, we try to guess the market price by looking at past auctions. Unfortunately, the market price has huge variance, changes rapidly, and we can't update the price of several hundred items twice a day. So check the current closing auction price and make your buying decisions accordingly.

 We take suggestions, too! If you find an item that's incorrectly priced, feel free to fire-off a note to us through eBay. Send the competing auction numbers, one of our eBay team will investigate, and if appropriate will update the item prices. If you want to buy *lots* of tubes at once, consider submitting an offer. We take TRADES too (although unless you're a dealer it's at 50% of market value because we need a markup on them).

 Finally, there is one last important thing you NEED to understand: the era of good, cheap tubes on eBay is rapidly drawing to a close! 

 There are three factors behind this problem:

 a) In order to enjoy a tube, the customer has to "use it up". (Tubes have a finite lifespan).
 b) High quality tubes are no longer being made. (although SOME modern production is getting "close" to NOS quality)
 c) Because of the Internet, the entire world now knows about and values tubes again.

 When we started this project ten years ago in 1999, we could go to garage sales, flea markets, and industrial auctions and pick up thousands of excellent tubes at $0.05 a piece. Factoring in search time, testing, and matching, you guys got an excellent deal and we made a fair profit. 

 But over the past decade, eBay has succeeded in emptying every garage, basement, storeroom and attic the world over of practically every audio tube in existence and, more problematically, educating the general public *about* their existence. 

 Now *everybody* thinks they can sell tubes on eBay. 

 Over the past year, I've driven 80+Km (50 miles) EACH way to estate sales in the middle of *nowhere* and run into boxes of twenty used, unsalable tubes priced at $250.00!! "we looked them up on eBay" the toothless 90 year old grandma says "and we sold the 300B's yesterday ...for $2,500.00 a pair" (*that* I can believe). Two months ago, I witnessed a pallet of a few hundred useless TV tubes (like remote cutoff pentodes and video compactrons.... ZERO audio potential) bid up to $5,000 at government auction. They're TUBES they MUST be valuable! Clearly, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And don't even get me STARTED about the guy I ran into last month at a flea market, with SIX THOUSAND dollars (or so he hoped) worth of unremarkable audio tubes laid out on a folding table, joking with me about how he left shoe boxes of used random TV tubes (stripped of anything that would sell for more than $0.25 on eBay) in front of his booth for $50.00 a box, and people actually BOUGHT them.

 Sadly, because these reckless amateurs know nothing about tubes, they list *ALL* of the ones they find for sale on eBay, bad or good, compounded with awful photos and incorrect descriptions (HINT: it increases the bid price -bidders "assume" what they *wish* was true). That creates something of a "glass minefield" for uneducated eBay bidders; and for somebody with a 20 feedback selling a box of random tubes for beer money... what do they care!

 WE care. And WE will take ANYTHING back as long as you don't damage it.

 Unfortunately, by next September, we're going to run out of tubes.

 So be careful. And do your research. And post a LOT of questions to this board BEFORE buying tubes your seller doesn't know anything about and won't take back.

 We'll do fine after we run out of tubes. We make a fortune off our other business endeavors and everyone at HyperLight has *already* stashed away their personal "lifetime supply" (...staring lovingly at box of Bendix 6900's, 6384's, Amperex PQ's, Metal Base Mullard EL34's, Gold Pin Telefunkens, and Cryo Treated TungSol 6550's...) of quality glass.

 It's YOU GUYS that need to worry.

 -HyperLight Research


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## Skylab

Wow, that is a bit of a scary post, but it makes me feel better about the tube hoarding I have been doing


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## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, that is a bit of a scary post, but it makes me feel better about the tube hoarding I have been doing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ha- agreed!


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## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So it's your call, but for me it came down to a risk/reward thing. Seeing as how it is my only tube amp, I didn't want to take any chances._

 

I'm weighing the risk vs. reward also. What is the actual risk? Will the tubes damage the amp? Will the amp damage the tubes? Both? I might be willing to risk it if the only problem is ruining the tubes or that they don't last as long as they normally would, but I wouldn't want to damage the amp.


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## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm weighing the risk vs. reward also. What is the actual risk? Will the tubes damage the amp? Will the amp damage the tubes? Both? I might be willing to risk it if the only problem is ruining the tubes or that they don't last as long as they normally would, but I wouldn't want to damage the amp._

 

There seems to be a decent amount of conflicting info - but having David (I think he's the US contact person for Little Dot) tell me it isn't recommended, and hearing others say how it damaged their tubes was enough for me. I don't recall reading anything about damaged amps (with the 2.0 or resister mod) but honestly I stopped thinking much about it after it was discouraged by David and I read that the differences aren't that big anyway. Someday when I upgrade my tube amp I will probably try it, but for now there's plenty of other stuff I can play with. Just got me some NOS 1945 tubes from eBay!


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## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, that is a bit of a scary post, but it makes me feel better about the tube hoarding I have been doing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I guess I have some catching up to do.

 I've spent about $50 so far on some additional tubes. I've got a matched pair of the Voshod Russian tubes, a matched pair of Mullard M8161s, 8 non-matched but new old stock Amalgamated (Australian) 6AK5 tubes, supposedly made for the US military and a couple of tubes that were supposed to be RCA Commands but turned out to be an RCA and a GE tube, with the paint so badly faded on the glass it is impossible for me to tell exactly what they are.

 I bought all of these on eBay.

 The Voshods I got from Yen and they are probably what they say they are - MATCHED PAIR (2) of New Old Stock (NOS) Russian military-spec Voshod 6J1P-EV / 6AK5 vacuum tubes in original military boxes.

 For the Mullards I am a bit confused. The box they came in lists them as CV4010 but on eBay they are advertised as new old stock Mullard 1970's vintage British made military issue EF92 6CQ6 CV4015 M8161 6065 tubes. If I'm not mistaken all of these codes are just equivalents and since it says CV4015 on the box I'm assuming that's what variant it is. Also I think CV stands for civillian so although they may be based on a military design they were sold for civillian purposes. I'm not sure I'm correct or if it makes a difference. If anyone can clarify that would be appreciated.

 The Amalgamated were listed as all orginal NOS NIB rare Amalgamated Wireless Valve Company for US Military 6AK5/5654/6096/EF95F tubes. Made in Sydney Australia with British (Mullard CV4010) design. I have no reason to doubt this. These are not matched, but just come from the same box (I suppose). I got these pretty cheap, like $2 per tube, so they make a nice backup, just in case.

 In terms of sound quality, I must admit differences are very subtle. With the Amalgamated I really don't notice any difference from stock. There may be some but my time with the amp is still limited and the amp and tubes are not burned in. The latter may not matter but I'm still learning the nuances of the amp.

 With the Voshods and Mullards I definitely notice some small differences. The Voshods have a, shall I say, "romantic" presentation. They have a smooth sound, that can slightly gloss over details even with a headphone like the SA5000. It is definitely enjoyable if not super resolving.

 The M8161s (or whatever they are) are much more detailed and have a wider soundstage. I've noticed the slightest bit of sibilance but probably prefer these to the Voshods for most music.

 The GE/RCA combo is kind of weird. Yes, I just put both of them in there to see what happened. I sort of liked it. It was smooth like the Voshods with a touch of airiness like the Mullards. I also noticed that one might be driving the amp a little louder than the other. This may be giving me a perception of greater soundstage.

 So that leads to what tubes I want to buy to compliment what I already have. I have approximately $150 burning a hole in my PayPal account. I have set a limit for tubes at $200 since I don't want to spend more on tubes than I did for the amp. Plus I don't know what my long term committment to this amp is and what other amps out there use equivalent tubes. 

 For $150 what tubes can people recommend. I like an airy, musical sound that doesn't sacrifice too much detail but that isn't too analytical. The tubes should compliment my SA5000, which is like a microscope on the music.

 I would really like to buy those Yen Electro-Harmonix power tubes for $70, although I know that shoots half my budget. Although the drivers make more of a difference, if 10% to 15% of the sound is coming from the power tubes, doesn't it make sense to get one good set and be done with it? I don't want to squander 15% of my sound quality. Then there is the whole risk/reward thing we were talking about. I don't want to spend $70 to damage my amp or burn the tubes out in a month.

 As far as the driver tubes go, what are the top 2 or 3 "must have tubes". I don't mind actually if they don't all match my ideal sound preferences. I just want to have 3 or 4 sets of proven "go to" tubes that can fit a variety of genres and cans.

 Looking forward to all of your comments!


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## ScottieB

I think I may have the same collection as you, erikzen, with some Tung Sol 5654s in there. I haven't spent much time with them but they didn't strike me as anything special. The Mullards and Voshods are my favorites as well, and I think I actually have the same 8-pack of the cheaper ones as well. I agree that they are nothing special, but just fine should I need to rely on them in the future.

 Other tubes I've heard good things about and would love to try, but haven't yet due to the cost include, GE 5-star and GE Mobile Radio 5654s, Telefunken (anything I can find that's compatible), Sylvania golds (actually just won an auction for some non-gold sylvanias - so we'll see how those are), and the military version of the Tung Sols. 

 As you say, though, much of the difference is subtle, and I have to draw the line at some point. The Voshods are keepers, definitely, but I've spent a lot on tubes... maybe some trading is in order...?


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## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the Mullards I am a bit confused. The box they came in lists them as CV4010 but on eBay they are advertised as new old stock Mullard 1970's vintage British made military issue EF92 6CQ6 CV4015 M8161 6065 tubes. If I'm not mistaken all of these codes are just equivalents and since it says CV4015 on the box I'm assuming that's what variant it is. Also I think CV stands for civillian so although they may be based on a military design they were sold for civillian purposes. I'm not sure I'm correct or if it makes a difference. If anyone can clarify that would be appreciated._

 

CV4010 would be EF95 equivalent not EF92. What do they look like. Are they are squatty like the typical EF95s or are they longer with that metal casing in the center?


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## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CV4010 would be EF95 equivalent not EF92. What do they look like. Are they are squatty like the typical EF95s or are they longer with that metal casing in the center?_

 

Sorry I made a mistake. They say CV4015 on the box. They look just like the ones in the eBay picture and say M8161 on them so I guess that is the determining factor. I have the jumpers set for the EF92s and the amp is playing fine so I guess they are what they say they are.






 I'm just confused by all the labels, I guess.


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## ScottieB

Yeah the various names for the same tubes gets pretty confusing. Those are EF92s though, no question. They are (always?) slightly larger and taller with more 'metal' inside, while the EF95s tend to be shorter and chubbier. How's that for tech knowhow, eh? haha EF91s are bigger still.


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## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How's that for tech knowhow, eh? haha EF91s are bigger still._

 

My father used to always say, "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king". In this case I am blind.


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## Nick 214

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha- agreed!_

 

I've got my tin-foil hat on, crouching in a closet, clutching my 12AX7s in my teeth. I'll swallow them to keep the tube hunters away!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 NK


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## MONGO70

Hi guys, for 18 years I worked for a printing company that was established way back in the 1880's. Anyway the company was sold, and I lost my job, but I managed to save this from the trashcan. A 1958 Hickok Model 6000 tube tester! I just now read up on how to use it for basic tests. I still haven't received my amp yet, so to kill some time I am breaking in my K702's ( 10 hours so far) and giving the 2 tubes I bought from a ham radio guy a check up. The tubes I bought are CEI EF-92's. So far The tubes show no shorts, and they both test good. I'm pretty sure I figured out how to check the mutual conductance of the tube. I set the shunt dial to 65 and pressed the test button. One tube reads 1900 the other 2300 on the Micromhos scale. Is Micromhos a typo? I've heard of Micro ohms, but not Micromhos. The roll chart I have states that the average mutual conductance of a EF-92 is 1500. Is an above average reading better or worse? Also how close should the two tube readings measurements be to be considered a matched set? Am I making any sense?


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## erikzen

Sorry about your job but pretty cool looking piece of equipment. I have no idea about the readings, though. So when you figure it out let me know too.


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## Max F

I don't know much about the measurements but I've got a pair of those CEI E92 tubes and they are pretty sweet. CEI are rebadged from some English tube but I don't see any markings. I suspect they are Mullards but usually there are some production codes similar to what I've seen on my Amperex and International tubes (second line of code starts with a "R" which is a Mullard plant).

 Do you see any codes on your tubes? Regardless they sound pretty sweet with my HD650s.


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## MONGO70

Thanks, It looks like it was never used. The original manual and all the paperwork look brand new. I found out that Micromhos is indeed the correct term for measuring transconductance . From what I've learned so far, this measurement is used to determine tube life. If you take a reading on a tube then, decrease the voltage by 10%, and retest getting the same reading, the tube should have a lot of life left in it. Both my tubes pass. Looks like I have a whole lot of learning to do. I'll try to pass on anything worth learning. Here is a link to a neat site. Tales From The Tone Lounge; The Idiot's Guide To TubeTesters!


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## MONGO70

Sorry Max, I missed your post. I'm glad to hear they are a good tube, I only paid $10.00 for the pair. They are made in England and say blue chip series. See attached photo. I'll let you all know how they sound once I get my amp burned in.


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## MONGO70

Couldn't turn this down. Wish the guy had two of them. 1 Amperex PQ E95F $3.75 Hope I can find another one someday. Radio Tubes 1 Amperex PQ E95F Tube - eBay (item 260345158373 end time Mar-05-09 20:27:16 PST)


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## Skylab

That Hickock tester is a SUPER nice tester, and you found a great site above to learn about testers. Learn all you can about that one - it's one of the very best.

 The only question is whether it is calibrated or not. If you PM me, I will send you a tube (one of very little value but that is NOS since it is new production from Russia) that was tested on my calibrated B&K 650, and you can see of you get a similar transconductance reading on yours.


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## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MONGO70* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry Max, I missed your post. I'm glad to hear they are a good tube, I only paid $10.00 for the pair. They are made in England and say blue chip series. See attached photo. I'll let you all know how they sound once I get my amp burned in._

 

Looks like mine except mine don't say blue chip series. Funny since when are tubes chips - sort of like saying digital headphones


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## MONGO70

PM sent Skylab. I tried to research the blue chip, but didn't turn up much. I know that back in the day CEI was recognized as a Wall Street blue chip stock, so maybe that's where the name came from?


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## MONGO70

Well I received the LD MK3 today. I like it, but right off the bat I noticed the left driver tube was askew. I gently removed both the 5456's, and sure enough the pins were pretty well bent. I did not try to straiten them as I figured I would crack the tube. I put them on the Hickok and they both checked good. They were matched around 2.89% of each other. Carefully I reinstalled the tubes, and powered up the amp. Just a note, my K702's are far from broken in yet ( 20 hours ), I feel that the bass is still pretty muddy, but the mid range is starting to sweeten up nicely. From the ampI plugged the included cable into the Denon receiver, pushed play, and the CD player fed me some Alice Cooper. First impressions of the MK3 versus my receiver. The amp added some warmth, but the bass was even more muddled. The mid range did not sound as good as my receiver either, but after a few minutes of listening I could hear the tubes improving, they were starting to open up. The mid's were becoming more fluid almost dreamy. I thought wow this going to be fun. Then I noticed a beautiful blue-violet light coming from the left driver tube. This is not a good thing! I totally lost output on the left channel. Well crap, I shut down the amp, and went to pull the tube out, instantly I could tell it had cracked. Game over, for now.


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## xuan87

hey, can any1 tell if this pair of tubes can be used on the mkiii?

WESTERN ELECTRIC 6AK5 TUBES STRONG NEW NOS NIB - eBay (item 320347515781 end time Mar-13-09 18:47:09 PDT)


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## mudhole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xuan87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey, can any1 tell if this pair of tubes can be used on the mkiii?

WESTERN ELECTRIC 6AK5 TUBES STRONG NEW NOS NIB - eBay (item 320347515781 end time Mar-13-09 18:47:09 PDT)_

 


 Yes, 6AK5=5654=EF95.
 But I don't think these tubes would be better than stock tubes.


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## MONGO70

I contacted the seller of the amp, he is sending replacement tubes. I changed the jumpers for EF-92 operation and tried my used unmatched CEI blue chips. There is a night and day difference between those and new stock tubes. Much more dynamic and clear ;however I measure over a 17% difference between the tubes when tested. This makes itself all to apparent when listening. The output on the right channel is much less than the left channel, so much for my first set of unmatched tubes.


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## Max F

Mongo, sorry to hear about your problems. Have you tried switching the CEI tubes left and right. I've never had any problems with unmatched driver tubes, thats why I'm asking. But then again 17% difference is quite a bit. I think tube matching is more important with power tubes.


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## MONGO70

No Max, I didn't try switching them. I will later. I think your right about driver tubes I just tested some GE 5-star 6AK5W's, and they were 15% matched, but they sound awesome, I'm grooving to those at the moment. I'll let you know latter if I can get those CEI's to work.


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## xuan87

just like to ask:

 some tubes are labelled " EF95 5654 6AK5" and i know these can be used for the mkiii but what about those " EF95 6AK7" or "5654 6AK7"? can they be used too?

 also i've read some of the earlier post and ppl have mentioned that for EF92 tubes, you'll need to use a jumper, but according to the mkiii product page, it is mentioned that there " is an internal jumper to allow use with a wider range of driver tube-rolling, including the EF92, CV131, WE403A/B, GE5654, M8100, CV4010, EF95, 6JI as well as all equivalents to these vacuum tubes! "

 so does that mean i can don't use a jumper?


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## Pricklely Peete

The PQ E95F's are amazing tubes....that tube was left over from the 2 pairs I bought from CJ. They are hard to find indeed but well worth the effort. They sound great !!!

 You can gently bend the pins back straight of the stock tubes Mongo70. The glass is much tougher than the pins/metal. Just be gentle. Use your fingernail or thumbnail to straighten the pins. 

 It's funny I hate that when tubes don't sit upright even though it does nothing to the sound if they are off center a bit it just looks bad....

 The Waffen SS during the latter stages of WWII used to booby trap pictures on the walls of houses as they retreated (among other devious and ingenious booby traps) by placing a charge behind a picture on the wall and then purposely placing it askew knowing that a typical Allied enlisted soldier won't care if it's off kilter but an officer upon seeing the off center picture frame will straighten it thus setting off the charge killing everyone in the room. I kid you not. Sorry for the OT story. Human nature used as a weapon, not the first time that's happened.

 Peete.


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## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xuan87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just like to ask:

 some tubes are labelled " EF95 5654 6AK5" and i know these can be used for the mkiii but what about those " EF95 6AK7" or "5654 6AK7"? can they be used too?

 also i've read some of the earlier post and ppl have mentioned that for EF92 tubes, you'll need to use a jumper, but according to the mkiii product page, it is mentioned that there " is an internal jumper to allow use with a wider range of driver tube-rolling, including the EF92, CV131, WE403A/B, GE5654, M8100, CV4010, EF95, 6JI as well as all equivalents to these vacuum tubes! "

 so does that mean i can don't use a jumper?_

 


 Use this cross reference....6AK7 is not compatible according to this chart

Tube Cross Reference 6

 The Russian tubes and there naming conventions can be misleading. Ebay is the worst for this.

 Peete.


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## xuan87

wow this will be very useful. thanks!


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## MONGO70

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The PQ E95F's are amazing tubes....that tube was left over from the 2 pairs I bought from CJ. They are hard to find indeed but well worth the effort. They sound great !!!

 You can gently bend the pins back straight of the stock tubes Mongo70. The glass is much tougher than the pins/metal. Just be gentle. Use your fingernail or thumbnail to straighten the pins. 

 It's funny I hate that when tubes don't sit upright even though it does nothing to the sound if they are off center a bit it just looks bad....

 The Waffen SS during the latter stages of WWII used to booby trap pictures on the walls of houses as they retreated (among other devious and ingenious booby traps) by placing a charge behind a picture on the wall and then purposely placing it askew knowing that a typical Allied enlisted soldier won't care if it's off kilter but an officer upon seeing the off center picture frame will straighten it thus setting off the charge killing everyone in the room. I kid you not. Sorry for the OT story. Human nature used as a weapon, not the first time that's happened.

 Peete._

 

I'm a WWII freak, so I enjoyed your story. Glad I got your left over PQ E95F, I'm still looking for another one. I'm building up quite a collection of tubes, but kind of wished I could of heard what the stock tubes could do. I'm not disappointed with the GE 5-stars, very easy to listen to, definitely not fatiguing. Got about 1 1/2 hours on the tubes and 30 hours on the K702's Sounding better all the time.


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## Pricklely Peete

Glad to help Mongo70..... glad you enjoyed the WWII stuff I have tons more where that came from.

 My fav booby trap is the charge in the toilet tank. Pull the chain "boom". What a way to go...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.

 PS : XUAN87 I'm only glad to help.


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## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MONGO70* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I received the LD MK3 today. I like it, but right off the bat I noticed the left driver tube was askew._

 

When I received my amp I noticed the right driver tube was slightly askew as well. I always wondered if it was the best thing to ship the amp with the tubes already installed. I thought it would have been better to pack them separately. However, I had no problem with my tubes and this is the first I've heard that there was actually any damage, so maybe I'm wrong.


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## erikzen

I just sprung for a couple of hottyson's Sylvania Gold 408A tubes. One or two more pairs and then I'm done (for a while).


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## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ One or two more pairs and then I'm done (for a while)._

 

Famous last words


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## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just sprung for a couple of hottyson's Sylvania Gold 408A tubes. One or two more pairs and then I'm done (for a while)._

 

I didn't think those worked on the MKIII.


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## MONGO70

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't think those worked on the MKIII._

 

Same here, I bought some pricey Tung- Sol 408A's/6028, but have read they won't work. Guess I'll give them a try. I'll report back latter.


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## MONGO70

Well the Tung-Sol 408A's won't work, in the MK3. I have to really crank up my receiver and turn the gain up to about 1:00 o'clock on the MK3 before I can hear the music, but its at a low volume and distorted. If anyone has a Yamamoto HA-02 headphone amp or wants these Tung-Sols, I'll trade them for any driver tubes the MK3 can use. They are good tubes just not for the MK3. Tung-Sol Mil Spec 6028 408A Tubes-Yamamoto HA-02 - Pair - eBay (item 250380589844 end time Mar-02-09 18:16:33 PST)


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## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't think those worked on the MKIII._

 

Yeah, you're right. Hottyson is such a standup guy, he made sure I had the right amp before shipping. And when he questioned me I realized I was on another planet.

 See what happens when you don't get enough sleep? You can't tell a 3 from an 8.


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## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MONGO70* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here, I bought some pricey Tung- Sol 408A's/6028, but have read they won't work. Guess I'll give them a try. I'll report back latter._

 

I hope you didn't buy them based on my post. It's bad enough I screwed myself up. I wouldn't want my stupidity to be the cause of someone else's problems.

 Well, let's leave my marriage out of this.


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## Max F

The 403A or B is what you want. I've got a couple of WE 403B that I'm going to try tonight. Unfortunately, one has a round getter and the other a square getter (both black plates). Not sure if that makes any difference though. Funny my stock GEs had different getters too.


----------



## MONGO70

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope you didn't buy them based on my post. It's bad enough I screwed myself up. I wouldn't want my stupidity to be the cause of someone else's problems.

 Well, let's leave my marriage out of this._

 

No, I was up late searching for tubes. I was seeing 3's not 8's, maybe I'll see if I can send em back to Yen, for something else. Sometimes your just better off going to sleep.


----------



## denp

anyone tried Mazda 6F12 (EF91, 6AM6) tubes as Drivers?

 I thought they were very respectable - on a par with M8161 MULLARDs, I would say.


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MONGO70* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I was up late searching for tubes. I was seeing 3's not 8's, maybe I'll see if I can send em back to Yen, for something else. Sometimes your just better off going to sleep._

 

I had a similar problem. I was up too late and probably due to sleep deprivation as well contacted hottyson without thinking. I've searched for 403A/B tubes dozens of times so it was a complete brain fart.


----------



## MONGO70

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a similar problem. I was up too late and probably due to sleep deprivation as well contacted hottyson without thinking. I've searched for 403A/B tubes dozens of times so it was a complete brain fart._

 

I must be listening to the Chemical Brothers to much lately, I think it's frying my brain. I didn't even buy these from Yen, I bought them from n7rk, His real name is Dave, and he is AWESOME! I'm going to send the 408A's back, and he is going to send me some real nice tubes back. I feel much better now. Denp I have some EF91 Mullards, but haven't got around to trying them yet. Man, I'm really hooked on this amp. The guy I bought it from (tian) is doing a 24 hour burn in on the stock drivers before he sends them. I want to listen to those for a base line, then I will start comparing different tubes.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

You lucky person 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That's great !

 Peete.


----------



## MONGO70

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You lucky person 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's great !

 Peete._

 

Thanks, I dodged a bullet on that one. I was going to try and wait awhile before I judged any tubes, but after listening to these GE-5 stars for a total of 6 hours I simply must give some impressions. These are a great match for K701/K702 owners. For the last 4 hours I have been trying to find a fault with the GE's and I'm at a loss. They are fantastic. Bass response is great, the mid range is very pleasant, men and women's vocals are fantastic (gave me goose bumps), bells and cymbals are well defined, but lack brightness. I could probably listen to these all day without fatigue. I'm no expert and have limited experience with tubes so take my review with a grain of salt. GE 5 Star 6AK5 5654 EF95 Little Dot Amp Tubes-Pair, NOS - eBay (item 250382846187 end time Mar-02-09 18:21:49 PST)


----------



## wizia

Are the Mullards M8161 a good match for my MKIII - DT880 combo? I'm also between VOSHOD 6ZH1P-EV and TUNG-SOL 6AK5W 5654. As for power tubes, it looks like the 6H30Pi works fine but they are $68, is it worth it? I like detailed sound, clean and big soundstage.


----------



## erikzen

Thanks to those who encouraged me to search eBay for tubes. I think I got my best deal yet, although I'm withholding final judgment until the tubes actually come in. I just bought 2 Tung-Sol 6AK5W tubes, supposedly matched, for $19.25 shipped. That's a good price, isn't it?


----------



## ScottieB

Heh was that you I was bidding against?

 I actually stopped because I won two other auctions. So far loving my sylvanias (1952) although they are a bit microphonic with my low impendence headphones. Waiting for 1 other pair from 1942. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks to those who encouraged me to search eBay for tubes. I think I got my best deal yet, although I'm withholding final judgment until the tubes actually come in. I just bought 2 Tung-Sol 6AK5W tubes, supposedly matched, for $19.25 shipped. That's a good price, isn't it?_


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heh was that you I was bidding against?

 I actually stopped because I won two other auctions. So far loving my sylvanias (1952) although they are a bit microphonic with my low impendence headphones. Waiting for 1 other pair from 1942._

 

Oops! Hey, I'm glad we didn't get into a bidding war.

 Now you know my secret identity!


----------



## Max F

I bid on the 3 Tung-sols and lost!

 Since we are talking up the GE 5-stars, I have a extra set available (matched NOS in original boxes) if anyone wants to trade me. I'm looking for some Mullard M8100 (real ones with Mullard production code) or Sylvanias (black plates) - preferably unused.


----------



## MONGO70

Surplus Sales of Nebraska has 6AK5's that are made in Germany for $3.00 dollars each. I went there to buy resistors and cooling fans. I forgot I even bought the tubes. I don't know what they sound like yet.


----------



## MONGO70

I know tubes need awhile to burn in, but so far I don't think I would recommend the German 6AK5's. I've been listening to them for over 2 1/2 hours. The sound stage seems compressed, the upper mids and highs are fairly detailed, but too much in your face. I would say they are overly bright, lacking depth as well as bass. After listening to these, I think the GE 5 stars are a warm tube with subdued highs. I'm putting those back in the amp.


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since we are talking up the GE 5-stars, I have a extra set available (matched NOS in original boxes) if anyone wants to trade me. I'm looking for some Mullard M8100 (real ones with Mullard production code) or Sylvanias (black plates) - preferably unused._

 

Nevermind! I'm listening to my first set again and they are really sweet with my HD650. I want to have some backups!

 I will tell you where you can find them cheap though:

 Go here Antique Electronic Supply
 Then search 6ak5w - you'll see a nice little picture of them. Feel free to pass on some other info on deals. We got to work together!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT - erikzen received an order from then and they were not GE 5-stars. So YMMV.


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nevermind! I'm listening to my first set again and they are really sweet with my HD650. I want to have some backups!

 I will tell you where you can find them cheap though:

 Go here Antique Electronic Supply
 Then search 6ak5w - you'll see a nice little picture of them. Feel free to pass on some other info on deals. We got to work together!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Thanks for the link. That site's kind of weird though. It shows a picture of the GE Tubes but it doesn't list the brand or any kind of description. Did you receive tubes ordered from them or did you just see the picture?

 I'll be sure to pass along any deals I might find.


----------



## ScottieB

So what makes a tube microphonic? Is it just a bad design for audio, some flaw? or is it damaged somehow? just old?


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the link. That site's kind of weird though. It shows a picture of the GE Tubes but it doesn't list the brand or any kind of description. Did you receive tubes ordered from them or did you just see the picture?

 I'll be sure to pass along any deals I might find._

 

If you order the 6ak5w, then you'll get the 5 stars. At least thats what I got. I also got mine matched for some extra money (two matched sets). Not sure if that was necessary or not.

 I missed out on the deal where they were selling real Mullard M8100s for cheap.

 Anyway, I'm still going by the Penchum rule of don't spend more than $8 per tube including shipping. So far, so good!


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you order the 6ak5w, then you'll get the 5 stars. At least thats what I got. I also got mine matched for some extra money (two matched sets). Not sure if that was necessary or not.

 I missed out on the deal where they were selling real Mullard M8100s for cheap.

 Anyway, I'm still going by the Penchum rule of don't spend more than $8 per tube including shipping. So far, so good!_

 

I'll order a pair and see what I get. I'll be sure to post here.

 $8 a tube? I've already blown that. Even the Tung-Sols cost me $9.63 each. I'll keep that benchmark in mind from now on.

 Edit: OK, I took a shot. They have a $10 minimum so I also ordered what they have listed as 6AK5/EF95. I'm wondering what I'm going to get. Works out to be about $7 a tube with shipping.


----------



## Max F

Yeah, actually I paid around $11-12 per tube for the WE 403b. So I blew that too, lol! Anyway, just something to shot for.


----------



## MONGO70

Thanks for the link Max! I ordered a couple pair. Ebay makes it so easy to pay to much, I'm guilty, but now that I have a few well reviewed tubes I feel like I can take my time and search for deals. I'll let you all know if I find any.


----------



## xuan87

just received 4 brandless tubes, will post my impressions/ comparisons with the stock tubes after allowing the tubes to burn in a little.

 description: Valve Electronic CV4010 5654/6AK5W/6096/SDA

 can valve electronic be the brand?

 oh and if anyone is interested in a straight trade for the 2 extra tubes, just send me a pm! i'm interested in any compatible as long as i don't already have them.


----------



## Max F

I think I have the same tubes. They were listed as Mullards but they don't have the Mullard etched codes. (Didn't mind too much since they were cheap and the EF91s I got from the same guy were the real deal.) Instead I believe they are the Amalgamated made in Australia. They sounded pretty solid state to me. Not my preference but I didn't really let them burn in before I moved to some other tubes.

 Let us know what you think.


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xuan87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just received 4 brandless tubes, will post my impressions/ comparisons with the stock tubes after allowing the tubes to burn in a little.

 description: Valve Electronic CV4010 5654/6AK5W/6096/SDA

 can valve electronic be the brand?

 oh and if anyone is interested in a straight trade for the 2 extra tubes, just send me a pm! i'm interested in any compatible as long as i don't already have them._

 

I have a bunch of these same tubes as well, I think. Check the picture on eBay:

Pair 6AK5W 6096 5654 tube NOS NIB Little Dot MKIV - eBay (item 270355895774 end time Mar-12-09 12:15:52 PDT)

 They didn't sound too much different than the stock tubes to me, but they certainly were cheap. I think I paid $9 for 8 of them. A lifetime's supply I would imagine.


----------



## ScottieB

^ Quite a few of us have these same tubes now. Agreed that they're nothing special, but certainly not bad, a good price and nice to have a stock - even of "generics" - for the future.


----------



## MONGO70

There are a few different 6AK5W's at this place. Might be worth a try. Military-Tubes.com - Kleinsignalröhren


----------



## MONGO70

I also want to thank Skylab for sending a tube to me at his own expense, so I could see if my tube tester got similar results to his calibrated tester. Sadly it looks like my tester needs calibrated. Thanks again Skylab.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what makes a tube microphonic? Is it just a bad design for audio, some flaw? or is it damaged somehow? just old?_

 

Any thoughts on this? The sylvanias I got are unbearably microphonic - like if a fan is on sitting on my desk, I get a contant wine thru the headphones frm the vibrations. If I touch the volume pot I hear a "ting" in the headphones. Some of my other tubes do this, too, but not nearly as bad - not to the point of hearing the fan.

 EDIT - ahhh a little searching found this:

  Quote:


 "What is a microphonic tube?"

 If a tube is "microphonic" it will "howl," or feedback, like a microphone. No tube is free of microphonics, and some say that a little is actually wanted for a livelier sound. Microphonics are caused when the insides of a tube start to loose their solid construction from vibration. There is no fixing this. All we can hope for is that our tubes are well constructed. (technical explanation of microphonics)

 If a tube rings like a telephone it suffers from "filament rattle." Like a microphonic tube it should be replaced. Filament rattle isn't technically the same since the tube isn't acting like a microphone. Often you'll hear people mistakenly identify filament rattle as microphonics.

 It's well known that you can tap on tubes to hear if they're microphonic or suffer from filament rattle, but BE GENTLE. You can damage the tube when it's hot. Also, don't use your finger! If you hear the tapping being amplified don't freak out, as said before all tubes are microphonic. Tapping should be reserved for when you know you have a badly microphonic tube, but need to identify which one. 
 

So it's probably just that they were made poorly, or just got old... or some combination??


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yeah Scottie I had a pair of Sylvania's go highly microphonic on me after a couple of weeks of use in my MK III. They were regular JHS 6AK5 types (square getter/silver plates ) packed in OCT 1953, bought as a matched pair from Yen. No guarantees with any NOS tubes against such things...it simply happens.

 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Thanks, Peete. Sounds like exact same tubes actually - well these are Dec 1952. No worries, was more curious about the cause.


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nevermind! I'm listening to my first set again and they are really sweet with my HD650. I want to have some backups!

 I will tell you where you can find them cheap though:

 Go here Antique Electronic Supply
 Then search 6ak5w - you'll see a nice little picture of them. Feel free to pass on some other info on deals. We got to work together!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I just received 4 tubes from this company yesterday. I bought two of the ones listed as 6AK5W, but they were not GE 5 Star. One was a Motorola 6AK5 and the other was an RCA 6AK5. The other two were from the other listing on the site for 6ak5/EF95. Those two were Amperex 5654. 

 It seems like if you order from them you'll get whatever they happen to have. Maybe if you call them up you can ask for a specific brand.


----------



## erikzen

At first I was a bit excited about getting Amperex 5456 tubes. I've read some good impressions, especially in this thread.

 However, upon closer examination they do not appear to be the same tubes. One has black plates the other grey. Initial impression is that they have an upfront midrange, but slightly hollow sounding. Soundstage width and depth is very constricted. More complex musical passages seem a bit congested. Dynamic range is good with deep bass and smooth highs.

 Overall, an OK tube. This is admittedly with only minutes on them. I plan to listen to a lot of music today as I work so I'll let these run for a while and report back.

 On a different subject, I read a lot about black and grey plates. It seems people prefer black. Is black better, and if so, why?


----------



## erikzen

Two hours later and I would say the sound is less congested so there is improvement. I also switched to a warmer headphone and the midrange is a bit sweeter.


----------



## Max F

Sorry to here that erikzen. I guess I was lucky to get the 5-stars from them. BTW, when I order from places like this, I usually leave a note saying what my preference is and to have matched brands per pair. I guess you do take some chances when ordering from these large suppliers.

 I edited my original post to warn others.


----------



## xuan87

hi i'll like to ask if anyone has an extra pair of russian 6Zh1P-EV tubes? read alot about them here, but i can't find it anywhere on the net for a reasonable price. so if anyone like to trade tubes, or sell them to me, lets neg over pm!


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to here that erikzen. I guess I was lucky to get the 5-stars from them. BTW, when I order from places like this, I usually leave a note saying what my preference is and to have matched brands per pair. I guess you do take some chances when ordering from these large suppliers.

 I edited my original post to warn others._

 

Not to worry. I could have easily sent them a note first. That would have been the sensible thing to do. I just didn't do it.

 Actually, I think I'll email them and ask if they have any specific brands such as the GE 5 Star. I will mention to them that I received two different tubes, a Motorola and a GE, and that I would have thought they would at least be the same brand.


----------



## MONGO70

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At first I was a bit excited about getting Amperex 5456 tubes. I've read some good impressions, especially in this thread.

 However, upon closer examination they do not appear to be the same tubes. One has black plates the other grey. Initial impression is that they have an upfront midrange, but slightly hollow sounding. Soundstage width and depth is very constricted. More complex musical passages seem a bit congested. Dynamic range is good with deep bass and smooth highs.

 Overall, an OK tube. This is admittedly with only minutes on them. I plan to listen to a lot of music today as I work so I'll let these run for a while and report back.

 On a different subject, I read a lot about black and grey plates. It seems people prefer black. Is black better, and if so, why?_

 

Hi Erikzen, does this like the same Amperex 5654's you have? I just received mine, but haven't tried them yet. Maybe I'll give em a roll tomorrow. I just re read your post, I guess it might look like one of your tubes, the ones I have are both the same. The two pair of tubes I ordered from Antique Electronic Supply have already shipped. Guess I'll find out soon enough what they sent. I'm not too worried about what they are, but hope they are from the same manufacturer. If I get a Motorola and a GE mismatch, I'd be willing to trade with you erikzen.


----------



## erikzen

Yes that looks exactly like mine. Both of mine look almost identical except one has black plates and the other has gray. There is no other difference.

 It would be funny if you got the GE/Motorola mismatch. I'd be glad to trade. FYI, the GE wasn't a 5 star, more generic than that.


----------



## cloverp

are there any non russian/chinese power tube out there to upgrade the stock MK III power tubes? when i searched 6n6 tubes on ebay, there are some tubes advertised as 6N6P = ECC99 = E182CC, and there are some E182CC tubes for example that are non russian/chinese NOS tubes, wondering if those are suitable for MKIII at all?


----------



## MONGO70

Here is a site with some interesting info on the 6N6P. It sounds to me that while the E182CC has nine pins like the 6N6P. It has a different pin out configuration. If you want more options for rolling the power tubes, you may want to search for bull adapter plugs, many pages back in this thread. I'm still learning, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. upgrade_noval_tubes_to_6H6P


----------



## autosound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not to worry. I could have easily sent them a note first. That would have been the sensible thing to do. I just didn't do it.

 Actually, I think I'll email them and ask if they have any specific brands such as the GE 5 Star. I will mention to them that I received two different tubes, a Motorola and a GE, and that I would have thought they would at least be the same brand._

 

I ordered from them last week too and received two different RCA tubes. One is an rca Command and the other seems to be a plain 5654. They seem similar but they are definitely different. Do you guys think they should be okay to use together?


----------



## xuan87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MONGO70* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a site with some interesting info on the 6N6P.* It sounds to me that while the E182CC has nine pins like the 6N6P. It has a different pin out configuration*. If you want more options for rolling the power tubes, you may want to search for bull adapter plugs, many pages back in this thread. I'm still learning, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. upgrade_noval_tubes_to_6H6P_

 

i'm not very sure what you mean by the above? does that means that if you want to use the E182CC, you need an adaptor? how about these pair of tubes that i saw on ebay: they're listed as 6N6P-i/E182CC, so can you use them straight away or you'll need an adaptor 6N6P-I/ECC99/E182CC MATCHED PAIR for Little Dot MK III - eBay (item 130290453277 end time Mar-29-09 07:37:56 PDT)


----------



## Max F

Those power tubes are the same ones i have and they work. Don't pay attention to the E182CC part. 6N6P (6Н6П) or 6N6P-i (6Н6П-И) are the only tubes I know that work as is. I think 6N6 chinese tubes work to, but they would be a step down in quality. The difference between ones with the -i designation mean that they were built for pulse mode (digital) applications. I think the heater runs a little hotter too. Not sure if the sound is any different. Never really did a a-b comparison on mine (my stock tubes were 6N6P).


----------



## MONGO70

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xuan87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm not very sure what you mean by the above? does that means that if you want to use the E182CC, you need an adaptor? how about these pair of tubes that i saw on ebay: they're listed as 6N6P-i/E182CC, so can you use them straight away or you'll need an adaptor 6N6P-I/ECC99/E182CC MATCHED PAIR for Little Dot MK III - eBay (item 130290453277 end time Mar-29-09 07:37:56 PDT)_

 

Well what I mean by a different pin out, is. A tube may have the same specifications and same outward pin arrangement, but internally the wires are matched to the pins differently, so to use tubes that are internally wired differently than a 6N6P you would need an adapter. I'm starting to get in over my head, so I'll leave it at that.


----------



## MONGO70

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *autosound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered from them last week too and received two different RCA tubes. One is an rca Command and the other seems to be a plain 5654. They seem similar but they are definitely different. Do you guys think they should be okay to use together?_

 

Ha ha, I ordered 4 tubes, god knows what I'll get. I should get them in a day or two. If I get a mismatch that would benefit either you or erikzen, we could work out a trade. I'll let you know when they arrive.


----------



## erikzen

While people have warned me off Yen because of his prices, at least you get what you think you're getting. I received the Tung-Sols I mentioned in an earlier post and they were advertised as matching. They don't seem to be matched at all since the Tung-Sol printed on the tube is a different type face on each tube. Also, the seller said they had matching date codes. I'm not sure where the date codes are but I would assume they are printed on the glass as well. However, the printing is so worn off that you can't see what I would think would be the date code.

 Anyway, the tubes work and they both appear to be Tung-Sol so I'm not that unhappy about it, but it's not the matched vintage tubes I was expecting.

 They are obviously no where near to being burned in but I do like the sound so far. They have a full sound that has plenty of bass and brings the midrange and vocals more upfront than the Amperex. The highs seem a bit scratchy sounding though. Maybe after a few hours that will clear up. Pretty good detail and decent sound stage.


----------



## xuan87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those power tubes are the same ones i have and they work. Don't pay attention to the E182CC part. 6N6P (6Н6П) or 6N6P-i (6Н6П-И) are the only tubes I know that work as is. I think 6N6 chinese tubes work to, but they would be a step down in quality. The difference between ones with the -i designation mean that they were built for pulse mode (digital) applications. I think the heater runs a little hotter too. * Not sure if the sound is any different.* Never really did a a-b comparison on mine (my stock tubes were 6N6P)._

 

hmm now i'm not sure if i should get them haha.


----------



## anthonylei

I have about 10 6N6P power tubes sitting around the house... bought them from Ukraine... just posted a sale thread in 

For Sale : 6N6P Power Tube for headphone amps - AVForums.com

 pm me if anyone interested


----------



## MONGO70

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While people have warned me off Yen because of his prices, at least you get what you think you're getting. I received the Tung-Sols I mentioned in an earlier post and they were advertised as matching. They don't seem to be matched at all since the Tung-Sol printed on the tube is a different type face on each tube. Also, the seller said they had matching date codes. I'm not sure where the date codes are but I would assume they are printed on the glass as well. However, the printing is so worn off that you can't see what I would think would be the date code.

 Anyway, the tubes work and they both appear to be Tung-Sol so I'm not that unhappy about it, but it's not the matched vintage tubes I was expecting.

 They are obviously no where near to being burned in but I do like the sound so far. They have a full sound that has plenty of bass and brings the midrange and vocals more upfront than the Amperex. The highs seem a bit scratchy sounding though. Maybe after a few hours that will clear up. Pretty good detail and decent sound stage._

 

I think I just got the same tubes you got. They are supposed to be matched Tung Sols, they may be matched but they have different script. One even says 6AK5 on the back, and the other says 5654. I've got about 6 hours on those Amperex 5654's, for the most part I like them. They are very dynamic and have good bass, but like you say the sound stage is bit crowded with complex pieces. They are getting better though. For the most part I like the upfront mids, but at times they can be a bit overbearing. All in all not a bad tube. I might have to try these Tung Sol's tomorrow.


----------



## Max F

When you guys are done trying out different tubes can you do a big ***** tube review!

 I plan to doing one soon, along with my top 3 tubes for my MKIII and HD-650.

 I've pretty much got all the tubes I want except for the Mullard M8100 and Sylvania black plates.


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you guys are done trying out different tubes can you do a big ***** tube review!

 I plan to doing one soon, along with my top 3 tubes for my MKIII and HD-650.

 I've pretty much got all the tubes I want except for the Mullard M8100 and Sylvania black plates._

 

I'd like to do a big tube review at some point or at least write a comprehensive listing of all the tubes I have and my general impression of each.

 I'm still trying to get decent pairs first though. Right now although I've got a bunch of tubes, I only have Mullard 8161 and Voshod 6J1P-EV that are both the same brand, variant, etc. Well I have those Almagamated tubes also.


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Voshod 6J1P-EV_

 

Speaking of which, what's the difference between the above tube and the 6ZH1P-EV? The description from Yen is identical and both are described as the 6J1P.


----------



## Max F

The EV or EB means they are made for the military for ruggedness and longer life.

Russian tube designations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 I think that 6J1P is really an improper name for the 6ZH1P (6Ж1П)


----------



## MONGO70

Well crap, I tried my CEI blue chip EF92's again. The right channel is weak, low volume. I switched the tubes around, and same result. I triple checked the jumper switches, they are set for EF92 operation. I then tried my Mullard EF92's same problem. There must be a problem with the amp itself. So it looks like I'm limited to EF95's at the moment. I may just buy another MK3.


----------



## erikzen

Oh man this is bad news. Sorry to hear about your amp. I'd contact Little Dot and see what they say. 

 On a good note, I won a pair of WE 403B for $5.79 including shipping. These look decent. They weren't sold as new but should be in good shape according to the description.

Western Electric 403B Pair of Vacuum Tubes - eBay (item 320348791584 end time Mar-15-09 15:01:56 PDT)


----------



## MONGO70

That looks like a great deal, I'm curious to hear your impressions of them when you have time.


----------



## ScottieB

I've been itching to try some new tubes, and I want something great - willing to spend... but i can't decide... I go back and forth between the GE 5-stars, Tung Sol 6ak5w, and the Sylvania black plates... Yen has all 3, and I just can't choose! I need to get it to just 1 though.


----------



## ScottieB

Well to respond to myself - I'm not in such a hurry... I got my "1945" western Electrics in. My guess is that only 1 of them is really 1945 - there was only 1 box, which said 1945 on it, and one of the tubes was old and faded, with some oxidation on the pins (Deoxit to the rescue!) and the other looked pretty new, with bright yellow lettering and nice clean pins.

 Either way they sound pretty good right now - definitely something new which is what I was looking for. And no microphonics!


----------



## xuan87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received 4 tubes from this company yesterday. I bought two of the ones listed as 6AK5W, but they were not GE 5 Star. One was a Motorola 6AK5 and the other was an RCA 6AK5. The other two were from the other listing on the site for 6ak5/EF95. Those two were Amperex 5654. 

 It seems like if you order from them you'll get whatever they happen to have. Maybe if you call them up you can ask for a specific brand._

 

this sucks! i ordered 6 tubes from them thinking it will be GE 5 STAR and when they came, they turn out to be United Paterson N.J. never even heard of them before. feel cheated, so i sent them back an email.


----------



## Max F

I feel that I misled you all which I appologize. I guess they ran out of 5-stars after I ordered or maybe figured out they could get more for them.

 Anyway, I just went through a similar expericnce with a recent order from that Nebraska supply store. I ordered two 6ak5 which ended up being regular GEs, two 6ak5 made in Germany that were appear to be just rebadged russian 6ZH1Ps, and two EF91s that were Haltrons but they both look different. 

 Oh well, I think we are coming to an end of the cheap nice NOS Little Dot driver tubes.


----------



## MONGO70

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel that I misled you all which I appologize. I guess they ran out of 5-stars after I ordered or maybe figured out they could get more for them.

 Anyway, I just went through a similar expericnce with a recent order from that Nebraska supply store. I ordered two 6ak5 which ended up being regular GEs, two 6ak5 made in Germany that were appear to be just rebadged russian 6ZH1Ps, and two EF91s that were Haltrons but they both look different. 

 Oh well, I think we are coming to an end of the cheap nice NOS Little Dot driver tubes._

 

No apologies needed here, I got my 4 tubes yesterday. Two pair of GE 5 stars, Sorry folks, I must of cleaned them out.


----------



## .Sup

Hey guys I'm buying LD MK3 in a couple of days and I want to get another set of tubes with it just in case any of them break. Which ones should I go for, preferably the ones davidzhezhe has so I only pay for the shipping once.


----------



## MONGO70

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *.Sup* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys I'm buying LD MK3 in a couple of days and I want to get another set of tubes with it just in case any of them break. Which ones should I go for, preferably the ones davidzhezhe has so I only pay for the shipping once._

 

Well if you just want back up tubes, the stock power tubes are Soviet 6N6P also known as 6H6P. The stock driver tubes are GE 5654. Just do a google search, you should be able to find these easily for reasonable prices. If you are looking for a different sounding tube there are many to choose from, whether you will like them or not, is a matter of personal tastes, type of head phone, and style of music you are listening to. You may have to experiment a little bit to find the tube you like best. Browse through this thread to get different opinions and suggestions for tubes. So far I have only tried out 3 different tubes. GE 5 Star, Amperex 5654, and German 6AK5. I slightly prefer the GE 5 Stars over the Amperex 5654's. The GE's seem more mellow to me. I really don't like German 6AK5's from Nebraska Surplus at all.


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *.Sup* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys I'm buying LD MK3 in a couple of days and I want to get another set of tubes with it just in case any of them break. Which ones should I go for, preferably the ones davidzhezhe has so I only pay for the shipping once._

 

Even David suggest you get extra tubes in the US since the shipping alone costs more than the tubes. Both the power and driver tubes that are stock on the MK3 are cheap and readilly available.

 GE 6AK5
 6N6P


----------



## .Sup

Thanks mongo and max, much appreciated


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MONGO70* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No apologies needed here, I got my 4 tubes yesterday. Two pair of GE 5 stars, Sorry folks, I must of cleaned them out._

 

You must have because I decided to contact them directly. They had no more GE 5 stars and didn't have anything left that was actually a pair of the same brand. No worries, I didn't pay very much for the tubes and they all work.


----------



## MONGO70

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You must have because I decided to contact them directly. They had no more GE 5 stars and didn't have anything left that was actually a pair of the same brand. No worries, I didn't pay very much for the tubes and they all work._

 

Yeah, I'm sorry you guy's didn't get any. These are one of my favorite tubes for the K702's I have, otherwise I would hook you up. I have about 2 hours on the Tung-Sol 6AK5W's, and so far they sound pretty good, I like them better than the overpriced Amperex 5654's. With my headphones the Amperex's upper mid range is a little to upfront for my tastes. The Tung-sol's seem more balanced, have great bass, and the sound stage is much more open. Like you say though, they are a little scratchy on some of the higher frequencies. I'm going to burn them in some more, and then compare them to the GE 5 Stars. If I find some more GE 5 stars at a reasonable price I'll let you know.


----------



## legend24

Hey guys, I was wondering cause I am preparing to buy a 2nd hand LDMKIII i was wondering does tube rolling with the wrong tubes damages the LDMKIII?
 If damaged does it mean that as in there will be no sound coming from LDMKIII or it will sound funny?

 Does anyone has any guide on tube rolling? I find the terms, dual, jumpers etc etc very foreign?
 Tried google already. no help T_T


----------



## legend24

Sorry for the double post. Some technical issues


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *legend24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I was wondering cause I am preparing to buy a 2nd hand LDMKIII i was wondering does tube rolling with the wrong tubes damages the LDMKIII?
 If damaged does it mean that as in there will be no sound coming from LDMKIII or it will sound funny?

 Does anyone has any guide on tube rolling? I find the terms, dual, jumpers etc etc very foreign?
 Tried google already. no help T_T_

 

This thread and Penchum's review thread for the MKIII are really the best things to read to learn more. It's what I did. Yes it took a while, but it was worth it. You can also try the forums at littledot's site (Category & forums listing - Little-Tube BBS).


----------



## erikzen

Yes, ScottieB is right. Read this entire thread and the review thread. You will gain a wealth of knowledge. Also the owners manual for the amp will be of value. You can probably ask Little Dot for one.

 Of more immediate concern is your question about wrong tubes. At the very least you'll damage the tubes and possibly damage the amp as well if you leave them in. Doesn't your second hand amp come with tubes? Use those until you can get your hands on some EF95 tubes such as 6AK5/5654/403A/403B/8100. Don't even attempt to put in a tube that isn't the correct tube for the amp.

 The dual jumpers refers to a switch in the amp that allows you to use EF91/EF92 tubes. Unless your amp is going to come with those tubes I wouldn't worry about those for now.


----------



## legend24

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, ScottieB is right. Read this entire thread and the review thread. You will gain a wealth of knowledge. Also the owners manual for the amp will be of value. You can probably ask Little Dot for one.

 Of more immediate concern is your question about wrong tubes. At the very least you'll damage the tubes and possibly damage the amp as well if you leave them in. Doesn't your second hand amp come with tubes? Use those until you can get your hands on some EF95 tubes such as 6AK5/5654/403A/403B/8100. Don't even attempt to put in a tube that isn't the correct tube for the amp.

 The dual jumpers refers to a switch in the amp that allows you to use EF91/EF92 tubes. Unless your amp is going to come with those tubes I wouldn't worry about those for now._

 

Yea it is a second hand it comes with tung sols 5654/6ak5/ef95, russian power tubes, along with the stock tubes. Given these tubes, I was wondering if I can rearrange the tubes without damaging it? As in the the front and back tubes input. 

 So I guess it is pretty much a steal for me, I was prepared to go up to audition as this is my first tube amp and my first home rig, I figured out it would be best if I can identify if it is at least in working condition, and not attribute to the choice of tubes for funny sounds. 

 So I wondered is it possible???


----------



## erikzen

It would be hard to mix up the tubes. They are two different sizes. The big tubes go in the back and the little tubes go in the front.


----------



## nigeljames

I don`t know if this has been asked before but do tube manufacturers have a "house" sound for their tubes?


----------



## Max F

Most of the NOS tubes were manufactured for something other than audio signal amplification. So, I'm not sure if a "house" sound was intentional or not. Someone with more tube expertise may chime in on this.

 Edit: I think you may be asking if what, if any, the house sound is for each manufacturer. Well, most feel that Mullards are very smooth sounding and musical. Thats about all I know.


----------



## charliex

Hi - just starting into the world of tuberolling on my loved LD MK III - can the following tubes be used in this amp - 12AU7A ?


----------



## esirex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *charliex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi - just starting into the world of tuberolling on my loved LD MK III - can the following tubes be used in this amp - 12AU7A ?_

 


 Nope you cant buddy....


----------



## nutric08

I need some advice on tubes for my mkIII. Can anyone suggest a tube that has an even frequency response, i.e. nothing being recessed or accentuated, regardless of price?

 Thanks in advance


----------



## erikzen

I just started listening to some Western Electric 403B tubes. So far these are my favorites. They definitely give an even frequency response yet give a tube warmth throughout.


----------



## erikzen

I recently won a pair of tubes on ebay sold as Mullard but they don't say Mullard anywhere on them.

 They have this coding: 

 Valve Electronic CV4010 KQDD/K
 Z42 5960-99-000 4010

 Anybody know what these actually are?

 I paid $8.50/tube

 Oh well, $0.50 over the limit.


----------



## Skylab

> CV4010 KQDD/K

 That looks like Brimar marking.


----------



## Skylab

...


----------



## Oskari

I believe KQDD/K is legit for Mullard/Mitcham. Look for the etched code on the tube. That should have the R factory code for Mitcham. The CVs were made for the military or government in general and often lack trade names like Mullard.


----------



## Trapper32

I've bought a bunch of tubes with the same markings on the box and tube however mine also say Mullard 8100 Made in Great Britain on the tube. I find these particular tubes to be very high SQ and one of my favorites....


----------



## Max F

Ok, what's everyones favorite tube? 

 Here's mine with the HD650:

 1950s Raytheon 6AK5w black plates, square getters.

 They do everything just right. Not in your face, balanced with nice bass punch without being overwhelming. Detailed without being bright. Mids are just tubularly perfect! A tad recessed in the mids to give a since of depth like expensive British speakers.


----------



## ScottieB

Hey Max, nice find - mind my asking what you paid for them? The secret gems seem to be harder and harder to find at a decent price... seems yen has found all the good stuff and marked it up already hehe... love yen's stuff but I've spent enough with him I think - definitely on the prowl...


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just started listening to some Western Electric 403B tubes. So far these are my favorites. They definitely give an even frequency response yet give a tube warmth throughout._

 

Yeah, the WE tubes so far seem are the best options for 5654 tube-rolling. I have tried different WE403 tubes, some are A with black plate, square getters too; and some newer 403B. Either has very good and balanced sounding. The second best of my personal is the relatively rare Telefunken, which makes the Little-Dot sounds like a high quality SS amp.

 Others like GE, RCA, Mullard all come with some flaws in sounding; you can try but not recommended.


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Max, nice find - mind my asking what you paid for them? The secret gems seem to be harder and harder to find at a decent price... seems yen has found all the good stuff and marked it up already hehe... love yen's stuff but I've spent enough with him I think - definitely on the prowl..._

 

Raytheons are typically $2-4 a tube from what I've seen. They come up on e-bay periodically.


----------



## erikzen

I just picked up 6 403Bs for an average price of $5.33 each including shipping. Not bad.


----------



## PascalT

I'm not too happy with the tubes I have right now (couple of Sylvanias 6AK5 and some russian tubes)...

 I'm looking for something that can improve clarity and soundstage. I find the sound on all of these tubes to be a bit too muddy for my taste.. When I first tried these tubes the sound was great, but since then I am not sure what happened, the kick they gave me is gone. Could they have been bad quality tubes?

 I'm looking at Western Electric 403Bs or GE 5 Stars from yen. Would those possibly help satisfy my hunger? And is it worth getting them from yen? I saw some other options but they are not matched.


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just picked up 6 403Bs for an average price of $5.33 each including shipping. Not bad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, what are the date code of them?


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not too happy with the tubes I have right now (couple of Sylvanias 6AK5 and some russian tubes)...

 I'm looking for something that can improve clarity and soundstage. I find the sound on all of these tubes to be a bit too muddy for my taste.. When I first tried these tubes the sound was great, but since then I am not sure what happened, the kick they gave me is gone. Could they have been bad quality tubes?

 I'm looking at Western Electric 403Bs or GE 5 Stars from yen. Would those possibly help satisfy my hunger? And is it worth getting them from yen? I saw some other options but they are not matched._

 

Try avoid to use Russian tubes and Mullard, based on your favorite, just focus on WE403 and Telefunken's. GE 5 stars is good in clarity in mid, but very bad in bass. Forgive that because the EF95 series tubes is not for audiophile originally. Not all Yen's tubes are worth to invest, because many of them are those '80 NOS which not sound as good as those '50-'70. You can try Tubeworld for comparison. More expensive but all in good audiophile performance, I guess they have screen all of the tubes before put on the list.


----------



## nutric08

Thanks guys for answering. The telefunken's seem the one i should get, but will inquire about the WE 403b's.

 Cheers


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManAtWork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, what are the date code of them?_

 

Sorry I'm still something of a tube nube. Where is the date code found and how do I read it?


----------



## PascalT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManAtWork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Forgive that because the EF95 series tubes is not for audiophile originally. Not all Yen's tubes are worth to invest, because many of them are those '80 NOS which not sound as good as those '50-'70. ._

 

thanks for the info.

 Should I stick to EF92 over EF95 tubes then? Does it matter?

 I found a place on ebay that sells 403s matched for around $40 which is a bit cheaper than yen and they are made in 1974.


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Should I stick to EF92 over EF95 tubes then? Does it matter?

 I found a place on ebay that sells 403s matched for around $40 which is a bit cheaper than yen and they are made in 1974._

 

You would have more options with EF95. Any WE403, either A or B is good enough. I have a pair '74 in retail boxes as well, they sound very good. You can also consider there are WE403 NOS in white boxes with $35 for a matched pair in Tubeworld.


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry I'm still something of a tube nube. Where is the date code found and how do I read it?_

 

No problem. For WE tubes, if it is in retail box, then the date code was printed in box cover under the model no.; or you can read it from the tube body, they are the four digits in the last row under "U.S.A.". You can know when the tube was produced with this string.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManAtWork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem. For WE tubes, if it is in retail box, then the date code was printed in box cover under the model no.; or you can read it from the tube body, they are the four digits in the last row under "U.S.A.". You can know when the tube was produced with this string._

 

Hmm interesting. I have some Western electric JW-6AK5 tubes... they both came in one box that was dated 1945 - but one looks clearly newer. The older one has the printing very faded, although I can make out the West Elec JW-6A... the other is bright yellow clear as day... but neither has any numbers besides 6AK5 anywhere on the tube - any way to date that newer-looking one? 

 Another question... the smokey color to the glass at the top of the tubes - what is this for? And why do some tubes seem to have it perfectly centered at the top, while others seem to have it off to one side? Does this say anything about the quality or sound of the tube?

 (can post photos of either of these things if it will help clarify)


----------



## erikzen

Oh well, looks like mine are all over the place. Four that were supposed to be matched are, 8139, 8026, 8026, and 7639. Of the other two one has 752 but the printing is parallel to the bottom instead of perpendicular like the rest, and the second one has two sets of numbers, one above Western Electric, 559, and the other after USA, 213.


----------



## PascalT

Wow TubeWorld charges $32 minimum for Canadian shipping. Yen it is


----------



## nutric08

I have found some telefunken 6ak5's and i have a question thats rather noobish so bear with me. Is there any sound difference between the 6ak5 and the mil spec 6ak5w or is it just a life time issue?


----------



## PascalT

From what I know it's just a life time difference.


 I just got a pair of WE 403B matched for $40. I'll let you guys know how they are. I hope they're what I am looking for.


----------



## nutric08

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I know it's just a life time difference.


 I just got a pair of WE 403B matched for $40. I'll let you guys know how they are. I hope they're what I am looking for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Please do that. I'm interested how they sound in the LD mkIII


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a pair of WE 403B matched for $40. I'll let you guys know how they are. I hope they're what I am looking for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm interested to hear your opinions as well. To me the WE 403B is the first tube I've tried that sounds stereotypically (no pun intended) tubey. It's also the first set of tubes I've tried that are noticeably microphonic. I'm wondering if that is adding to the tubish sound. I can see where that might add a bit of reverb to the sound. I'm also wondering if its the 403B or just these particular tubes.


----------



## 928GTS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh well, looks like mine are all over the place. Four that were supposed to be matched are, 8139, 8026, 8026, and 7639. Of the other two one has 752 but the printing is parallel to the bottom instead of perpendicular like the rest, and the second one has two sets of numbers, one above Western Electric, 559, and the other after USA, 213._

 


 The second set of numbers corresponds to the week that they were produced whereas the first two digits correspond to the the year produced.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *928GTS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The second set of numbers corresponds to the week that they were produced whereas the first two digits correspond to the the year produced._

 

But noone knows about mines (few posts back)?


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *928GTS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The second set of numbers corresponds to the week that they were produced whereas the first two digits correspond to the the year produced._

 

That's what I figured but what about a 3 digit number?


----------



## nutric08

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what I figured but what about a 3 digit number?_

 

month - 1 digit/year - 2 digits maybe?

 edit: like 556 = May, 1956


----------



## 928GTS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nutric08* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_month - 1 digit/year - 2 digits maybe?

 edit: like 556 = May, 1956_

 

I agree,this seems like the best explanation.


----------



## erikzen

I switched out the 752 and the 559 for the two 8026. Microphonics are gone and the sound is much tighter. Overall I like the sound better although it sacrifices some soundstage.


----------



## PascalT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's also the first set of tubes I've tried that are noticeably microphonic._

 

Hmm do you mean there's noise in the music when using those tubes ? I hope not, and I hope they don't sound too tubey.. I want the sound to be cleaner and lighter and not so muddy. 

 Perhaps changing the 650 cable might help the problems more than tubes..


----------



## Max F

I have a pair of these WE 403b. I have to agree with some comments i read in a Darkvoice thread that said they have some wierd bass. I haven't listened to them in a couple of weeks and only have about 15 hours on them. I'll have to try them again. I just remember the bass response was strange, some parts boosted and some attenuated.


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm do you mean there's noise in the music when using those tubes ? I hope not, and I hope they don't sound too tubey.. I want the sound to be cleaner and lighter and not so muddy. 

 Perhaps changing the 650 cable might help the problems more than tubes.._

 

They aren't necessarily noisy when you play music. You really only notice it when the music isn't playing and you rub against the headphone cable. However I just wonder if some of the same characteristics that make a tube microphonic might also make it sound good.

 Anyway, I switched out those two tubes and put in two that are supposed to be matched, with the matching date codes and the sound is much tighter again. And these aren't microphonic at all.

 So I don't know what a true WE 403B is supposed to sound like. But I can tell you this, I'm listening to these tubes right now and with Andreas Vollenweider playing through the LA7000, everything is sounding unbelievable.


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another question... the smokey color to the glass at the top of the tubes - what is this for? And why do some tubes seem to have it perfectly centered at the top, while others seem to have it off to one side? Does this say anything about the quality or sound of the tube?_

 

I think this answers your question:

_We want a good, hard vacuum inside a tube, or it will not work properly. And we want that vacuum to last as long as possible. Sometimes, very small leaks can appear in a tube envelope (often around the electrical connections in the bottom). Or, the tube may not have been fully "degassed" on the vacuum pump at the factory, so there may be some stray air inside. The "getter" is designed to remove some stray gas. 

 The getter in most glass tubes is a small cup or holder, containing a bit of a metal that reacts with oxygen strongly and absorbs it. (In most modern glass tubes, the getter metal is barium, which oxidizes VERY easily when it is pure.) When the tube is pumped out and sealed, the last step in processing is to "fire" the getter, producing a "getter flash" inside the tube envelope. That is the silvery patch you see on the inside of a glass tube. It is a guarantee that the tube has good vacuum. If the seal on the tube fails, the getter flash will turn white (because it turns into barium oxide). 

 There have been rumors that dark spots on getters indicate a tube which is used. This is NOT TRUE. Sometimes, the getter flash is not perfectly uniform, and a discolored or clear spot can occur. The tube is still good and will give full lifetime. THE ONLY RELIABLE WAY TO DETERMINE THE HEALTH OF A TUBE IS TO TEST IT ELECTRICALLY._

 From:
How Vacuum Tubes Work


----------



## erikzen

I'm taking one for the team and breaking the $8/tube rule. While I am happy about the price I've been paying for tubes I've found on eBay, I'm not 100% sure about the quality. Sure, they all work and seem to sound OK, but whether they are actually matched, or even the brand they say they are is often dubious.

 I am going to buy two sets of tubes from Tube World and compare them to some of the "pot luck" tubes I've been getting to see if matching, brand names, original boxes make any difference in sound quality.

 I placed an order for a pair of Raytheon JRP-6AK5W 1952 NOS with black plates and "D" getter, US Navy issue tubes in original boxes ($25/pair) and 1 pair of EF95 Mullard Whyteleafe plant NOS 1958 "D" getter halo in white boxes with the same date codes ($50/pair). I know those Mullards are pricy and might not be any better than the "unbranded" ones I purchased recently.

 This should give me a pretty good idea of whether or not it is worth it (for my ears anyway) to be chasing after the more expensive tubes. I've run plenty of tubes so far that have not been matched and I haven't heard anything out of the ordinary like a channel imbalance or high levels of distortion.

 I must admit that the smoothest sounding tubes were the matched Voshods which were $24 plus shipping from Yen. We'll see how these do.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think this answers your question:

We want a good, hard vacuum inside a tube, or it will not work properly. And we want that vacuum to last as long as possible. Sometimes, very small leaks can appear in a tube envelope (often around the electrical connections in the bottom). Or, the tube may not have been fully "degassed" on the vacuum pump at the factory, so there may be some stray air inside. The "getter" is designed to remove some stray gas. 

 The getter in most glass tubes is a small cup or holder, containing a bit of a metal that reacts with oxygen strongly and absorbs it. (In most modern glass tubes, the getter metal is barium, which oxidizes VERY easily when it is pure.) When the tube is pumped out and sealed, the last step in processing is to "fire" the getter, producing a "getter flash" inside the tube envelope. That is the silvery patch you see on the inside of a glass tube. It is a guarantee that the tube has good vacuum. If the seal on the tube fails, the getter flash will turn white (because it turns into barium oxide). 

 There have been rumors that dark spots on getters indicate a tube which is used. This is NOT TRUE. Sometimes, the getter flash is not perfectly uniform, and a discolored or clear spot can occur. The tube is still good and will give full lifetime. THE ONLY RELIABLE WAY TO DETERMINE THE HEALTH OF A TUBE IS TO TEST IT ELECTRICALLY.

 From:
How Vacuum Tubes Work_

 


 Excellent, thanks! And thanks for the link - gonna have a look.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I placed an order for a pair of Raytheon JRP-6AK5W 1952 NOS with black plates and "D" getter, US Navy issue tubes in original boxes ($25/pair)_

 

I ALMOST put that order in myself on Saturday, but held back - very curious to hear how they sound! thx, erikzen!


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ALMOST put that order in myself on Saturday, but held back - very curious to hear how they sound! thx, erikzen!_

 

Yeah, me too. I'm still trying to give them my credit card info though. Been playing phone tag. Actually, if these are any good it won't be such a bad deal.

 $50 for the Mullards though, I think I was a bit over zealous with that purchase. That rivals the top of the line for any of the Yen tubes. But if they sound good I guess it's worth it to have them in my collection. I haven't seen any "Whyteleafe Plant" tubes before, although I don't know exactly what that means in terms of quality.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

FYI

 selling my Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi-EH Gold's, if anyone wants a pair. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f44/fs...iii-iv-417537/


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recently won a pair of tubes on ebay sold as Mullard but they don't say Mullard anywhere on them.

 They have this coding: 

 Valve Electronic CV4010 KQDD/K
 Z42 5960-99-000 4010

 Anybody know what these actually are?

 I paid $8.50/tube

 Oh well, $0.50 over the limit._

 

I just got a pair of these. Great tubes! I love the mids and highs - very tubey smooth with good detail. Bass seems a little loose and rolled off lacking some punch. Hopefully, it'll tighten up with burn in. So far these are up there with my favorites.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a pair of these. Great tubes! I love the mids and highs - very tubey smooth with good detail. Bass seems a little loose and rolled off lacking some punch. Hopefully, it'll tighten up with burn in. So far these are up there with my favorites._

 

They are great aren't they 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... Another tube that is very very good is a Sylvania 6ak5wb late 1950's. Much better than the WE 403b's IMO


----------



## erikzen

OK, I really am done with buying tubes now for this amp. Time to evaluate everything that I've got.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, I really am done with buying tubes now for this amp. Time to evaluate everything that I've got._

 






 Yes ..don't forget the music cause tube rolling can be quite addictive and it IS about the music afterall ...but do keep an eye on eBay. Sometimes a great deal can be had altho its been getting alot harder lately.


----------



## LarsP

Hi,

 I'm new to this site and the (wonderful?) world of tuberolling. I have a couple of questions regarding tuberolling on the Little Dot MKIII.

 As of now I've got it paired up with a Sennheiser HD-650. Allthough I'm pleased with the systems overall performance, I feel that it can benefit by switching the tubes.

 What I'm looking for is some entry level tubes that can add some punch in the highs and mids. The HD-650 sounds really relaxed and smooth, and I would like to add a little spice, if that makes any sense. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is my first time tuberolling, and I'm really looking forward to test out some new tubes.

 PS: Do any of you know of a tuberolling 101-guide with a image/video-explanation of how to remove, clean and insert the tubes?

 Thanks,
 Lars


----------



## Max F

All I can say, Lars, is that while you are enjoying listening to your amp, read the previous 116 pages of this thread. It will answer all of your current questions and more.


----------



## erikzen

Hi LarsP. Welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet!

 I don't know of any guide with images or video but there is a tube FAQ on this site. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/new...ewbies-119389/

 Despite a few broken links it is chock full of useful information.

 In general, handle tubes with care. They are glass after all and will break if they are dropped or mishandled. Also, sudden movements can sometimes damage the internal circuits. I would say however that tubes, at least the driver tubes for the LD MKIII are not particularly fragile. Handle them with reasonable care and you will be fine. Of course there are some tubes out there that cost hundreds of dollars and those should be handled appropriately. Fortunately, there are a lot of tubes available for the LD MKIII that aren't super expensive especially if you aren't overly concerned with original boxes and having matched pairs. Although peoeple put a lot of emphasis on tube matching, I've put two brands in my amp at the same time and didn't hear any problems. Keep in mind we're sometimes trying to squeeze out the last 1% of sound quality. Whether or not matching tubes is important to you is a personal decision and only experience will let you know if it matters to you. That being said, I just paid $50 for a matched pair of Mullard 8100s. Hey, you've got to have a least one set of expenisve tubes, right?

 Also, clean any deposits on the glass as they will heat and cool at different rates than the tube itself stressing the glass. Eventually the tube could crack. This means avoid touching the glass envelope as much as possible and consider using cotton gloves or a cloth when handling tubes, especially your more expensive ones.

 In terms of inserting and removing tubes, use a gentle rocking or rotating motion (hence the term "tube rolling") to ease the tubes in and out of their sockets. Never push down or pull up directly, as this could cause the pins to bend or tube to break.

 As far as actual tube recommendations this thread, although now getting somewhat huge and difficult to manage, is filled with recommendations. I personally have a variety of tubes but am still learning their nuances. From what I've heard so far, I would recommend either the Mullard 8161 or the Western Electric 403B although I don't have the HD650 so take it with a grain of salt. The 8161 is an EF92 variant so you will have to switch the jumpers on the bottom of your amp if you get them.


----------



## yayomizzan

I agree.


----------



## Lunchbox2

Hey everyone, i have some EF91s I got (mullard 6aw6's if i'm not mistaken) and I'm having trouble finding this switch that the manual of the MK3 refers to. I see jumpers, but I bought this thing used and it didn't come with any sort of jumper. Does that mean I'm SOL? Can anyone post a picture of their jumper or their mk3 with one in it? Thanks!


----------



## Max F

You either have switches or jumpers. The switches should be obvious - just like the switches for setting the gain. 

 If they are jumpers then if you didn't get the little metal jumpers with your amp, you can find them at a electronic supply store or computer repair store.


----------



## Lunchbox2

Thanks Max_F


----------



## Max F

Actually, if you still have the bag that contains the RCA cable that came with the amp - I think it has the jumpers in it. I never checked mine since I already had a cable and my amp came with switches.


----------



## PascalT

hmm how do you remove the EF92 jumpers on the LD MKIII? I tried tweezers but i can't reach in. Do i need to open the casing? I have some Ef95 tubes i want to try out.

 edit: turns out my LD has NO jumpers this whole time and I was using EF92 tubes? How did it not break something?  Weird...


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm how do you remove the EF92 jumpers on the LD MKIII? I tried tweezers but i can't reach in. Do i need to open the casing? I have some Ef95 tubes i want to try out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 


 Long skinny needle nose pliers work ok or if you know someone in the medical field an old pair of hemostats work great.Dentists use them alot and you may be able to talk them into giving you an old pair.....You can also pick up the hemostats in the fishing dept of Walmart too I believe.....Try to get the longest ones you can find.....If you think the LD MKIII is difficult, the LD MKIV is harder still


----------



## Max F

Mine has switches (thank goodness!).


----------



## PascalT

edit: I fixed the problem. Turns out the stock LD tubes are Ef95.. I thought this whole time I was using/buying EF92 tubes... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm _really_ loving these WE403b tubes. The boxes say they were made in April 1974. 

 After trying 3-4 different sets of tubes and not being too happy, I think I'll stick with these for a while. They opened up the sound a lot, it sounds clearer and the sound stage is wider, the tubes also tightened up the bass which is exactly what I was looking for.

 There's more on ebay if anyone is interested: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=350169775886 You gotta ask them to match the tubes if you want.


----------



## Max F

Update on the Mullard "Valve Electronic CV4010 KQDD/K"

 The tubes definitely tightened up! These are some sweet tubes. In my top 3.

 One thing that I've noticed with tube burnin is that the bass is what changes the most. Usually it gets stronger and tighter. You can tell alot about the sound of the tube from the get go as far as the soundstage, mids and highs are concerned. The bass tends to come in later. Just and personal observation.


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Update on the Mullard "Valve Electronic CV4010 KQDD/K"

 The tubes definitely tightened up! These are some sweet tubes. In my top 3._

 


 One of my favorites also. It just does everything right.

 I got some new tubes from Tube World today. I thought I would splurge one last time and get some matched pairs.

 I picked up a pair of Raytheon JRP-6AK5W "anchor" tubes 1952 and a pair of Mullard Whyteleafe plant M8100 1958.

 Since I have a couple of other Mullard tubes, the first thing I wanted to try were the Raytheons. Listening now for a few minutes the highs are very rolled off. The music has warmth but lacks sparkle and detail. The sound is very "soft" for lack of a better term. Maybe smooth would be a better term. I hope these open up a bit over time.


----------



## erikzen

I just put a list of my tubes together. Geez, the numbers start to creep up on you.

 I now have 17 pairs of tubes. A lot of them are just odd tubes that I picked up on eBay. So I only have a few matched pairs.


 GE 5654 - These are the ones that came with the amp. I assume they're matched but they might not be.

 Mullard CV4010/M8100 1980 black plates 
 Mullard EF95 Whyteleafe Plant
 Mullard M8161/EF92/CV4015
 (OK I think I have that brand covered)

 RaytheonJRP-6AK5W 1952 black plates, D getter, Navy anchor symbol
 Voshod 6J1P-EV 1981 black plates, ribbed glass, halo getter, military rocket symbol 
 Tung Sol 6AK5W 1957 grey plates, square getter (dealer said it was a matched pair but markings on tubes are not completely identical.)

 I've got a few unmatched pairs as well:
 Amalgamated Wireless 6AK5W - 4 pairs
 Western Electric 403B - 3 pairs
 Amperex 5654

 Then I have some odd GE, Motorola and RCA tubes.

 34 in all.


----------



## dukja

I just got a used LD III with stock Russian power tube and Mullard 8100. I have been told that the power tube had more than 1000 hours and drive tube about 600 hours.

 comparing it with V-DAC > Arietta >DT880, I found LD had softer and easier higher mid. However Arietta sounds much cleaner, better clarity, and revealing of multiple layers of sound stage. LD sounds like multiple sound sources are squeezed into a "wall" (Is it what people called wall of sound?)

 So I would appreciate your experience to see if those tubes need to be changed and your recommendation to get better spatial resolution. After reading many pages, I wasn't able to get any conclusion yet.

 Many thanks!!


----------



## erikzen

I think what you're describing is the stereotypical difference between solid state and tube amps. Of course there are amps of both types that "break the mold". I don't think the LD will ever sound like an Arietta no matter what tubes you put in it.

 I don't really know how many hours tubes last but I would imagine you're starting to get to the end of the life of the ones you have. Many people have claimed that the power tubes don't make much difference to the sound but if they are burning out that may be a different story. I'd look into getting a replacement pair, which you will need eventually anyway, and compare the two.

 I am surprised you find the Mullard 8100 to be a bit soft since I would say those are some of the crisper tubes I've tried. I would say the clearest tubes I have are the Mullard 8161/EF92 tubes. It's the only EF92 variant I have so I don't know if it's that family or if it's just that particular tube. Next I would recommend the Western Electric 403B.


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I picked up a pair of Raytheon JRP-6AK5W "anchor" tubes 1952 and a pair of Mullard Whyteleafe plant M8100 1958._

 

Last night I started listening to the Raytheon. I immediately found the highs very smoothed out and slightly rolled off. It lacked any kind of high end sparkle and although pleasant didn't sound particularly "hi-fi". 

 Over the course of two albums the sound started to open up a bit, but had a typical tube amp smoothness. Sweet, liquid mids, slightly bloomy bass, silky but rolled off highs. I hope as these mature they gain a little bit more edge in the highs, but that might not be the nature of these tubes. 

 This is one of my more expensive matched pairs that I picked up from Tube World. While I'm not ready to make a final decision on these, it does go to show that paying a premium for matched tubes doesn't necessarily guarantee you a sound you're going to like.

 I'd like to point out though that I also ran the LISA III amp off the preamp out with these tubes and I really liked the sound. It had all the clarity of a solid state amp, with a touch of warmth and mid-bass bloom. Very nice.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tung Sol 6AK5W 1957 grey plates, square getter (dealer said it was a matched pair but markings on tubes are not completely identical.)

 I've got a few unmatched pairs as well:
 Amalgamated Wireless 6AK5W - 4 pairs
 Western Electric 403B - 3 pairs
 Amperex 5654
_

 

I could be wrong, but I thought "matched" meant that their signal strengths - like when tested in a tube tester - were matched to within a certain number; Not necessarily that the tubes came from the exact same place or the same batch or whatever. So that each channel sounds balanced when listening. So two of the same model tube could have different markings but still be matched.


----------



## CDBacklash

anyone know where I can get a good deal on 6N6P-I with a CC? (preferably in australia for shipping time + in depth tracking). Mailing cash would also be okay...


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could be wrong, but I thought "matched" meant that their signal strengths - like when tested in a tube tester - were matched to within a certain number; Not necessarily that the tubes came from the exact same place or the same batch or whatever. So that each channel sounds balanced when listening. So two of the same model tube could have different markings but still be matched._

 

I'm not 100% sure on this point. I would imagine that two different runs from two different dates would not have identical sound properties. So while the signal strength may be the same, one tube might be more bass heavy than the other, etc.

 I would think that a truly matched pair should be the same brand, same variant, and have the same date code, so that the sound from each would be as similar as possible. But I may be wrong.


----------



## ScottieB

Yeah that does make more sense... anyone who actually knows out there?


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would think that a truly matched pair should be the same brand, same variant, and have the same date code, so that the sound from each would be as similar as possible. But I may be wrong._

 

It's not as if a complete universally accepted definition exists but I'd agree with the above. Matched tubes must be electrically matched (whatever that means), must come from the same factory, must have same construction, and must date from the same period of time. The brand printed on the tube doesn't matter sonically. I could accept differing brands or labels as long as that is clearly indicated and everything else matches. On the other hand, it is easy to _see_ why a cosmetic match is often preferred.


----------



## dukja

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... I would say the clearest tubes I have are the Mullard 8161/EF92 tubes. It's the only EF92 variant I have so I don't know if it's that family or if it's just that particular tube. Next I would recommend the Western Electric 403B._

 

Erikzen, thanks for the help. I am not trying to get LD sound like Arietta but try to get the sound stage improved as much as different tubes can. Following your recommendation, I have tried to find some 8161 at ebay and tubeworld, but did not find any yet(I tried the key word 8161 @ tubeworld and get no hit). I'd appreciate that if you can point me to some sources.

 I did find some WE 403B at ebay:

 I guess this link is what you call "Sir Yen"? These are matched pairs for $36/pair. It seems to be quite expensive already from ebay.

 Another one has 50 available with about $30/pair or $40/matched pair. Which one of those two source would you suggest to try first?


 And for the power tube, I found some 6N6P at ebay

 Are they good one to start? Or should I better look for matched pairs to avoid channel imbalance (you mentioned it doesn't seem to matter too much). tubeworld has $75/pair 6h6p. It seems way to expensive. Other sources, please? Thanks!

 Thanks for the help on my 1st tube purchase.


----------



## erikzen

You just have to keep scouring eBay to find tubes at decent prices. Otherwise, buying from Yen is OK. You get what you pay for. You'll never get a great bargain but you'll never get gipped either.


 You might want to look at EF91 also. These look like they may be fun to try:
2x Mullard Electron vacuum Tube 6AM6 / EF91 - eBay (item 350009754039 end time Apr-19-09 06:26:24 PDT)

 Not that cheap either but might be worth trying.

 You can go with those power tubes. I don't think there is a need to spend a lot on power tubes. With 1000 hours on them, there is a chance they might be starting to fail. You just want to compare your tubes with the new ones. You'll need a spare pair at some point I imagine.


----------



## Max F

If you don't want to pay a high price for some Mullard M8161 tubes you can go to any good online tube seller and order a pair of 6CQ6 (EF92) tubes. Just specify you want to have the same brand for the pair. Most likely they will be a different brand but will be rebranded tubes made in Great Britain. They may even be made by Mullard - look for the sand blasted codes in the glass. The second line of code will have the first letter "R".

 I even got a pair of CEI EF92 tubes that sound great. They aren't made by Mullard though. Not sure who makes them other than they are made in England but there are no Mullard/Phillips codes. 

 Overall, the difference in sound between different brands for the EF92 and EF91 tubes is small, unlike the EF95 where the brand and even the years made makes a big difference. Again, that's just my observation. The EF92 tubes have larger soundstage (then the EF95 in general) and EF91 even more so with lots of air (maybe too much).


----------



## dukja

Thank you both for the very helpful information. I got two pair of Russian power tube for $16 and one pair of M8161 for $25 from ebay. They claimed to be matched with some measured numbers (but they have multiple pairs. so...)

 Hopefully, it will clean up the LD sound a little bit. The more I compare LD (old tubes) with Arietta, the more I found that the sound quality of LD is kind of scratchy at certain freq. bands. Violin and vocal sound acceptable but closer to me with LD, but piano sounds rough(again certain freq. bands are not right). It makes me switch to Arietta whenever I listen to piano works. I'll see if the new tubes help.


----------



## erikzen

Good luck. As fun as I find the Little Dot, I don't think it's the most accurate amp, but for $250 (of course now we're talking $450 with all the tubes I've bought), it certainly is a good value. Hopefully, you'll find a tube compliment that works for you.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

anyone ever try the Amperex M8083 EF91's? just bought a pair from Yen, was deciding that or the Mullards M8083. I'm hoping they're more fast/forward sounding because I find the other EF95/EF92 families too slow/laid-back with the HD650's.


----------



## Max F

I have some Amperex EF91s. They're really cool tubes. They light up real bright when you first turn them on, so don't freak out! They look pretty old too and they have cool looking blue glass in the middle.

 Like other EF91 tubes they have a large soundstage with lots of air. Bass is sort of weak (rolled off) but may be what you are looking for (faster bass). No EF91 tubes that I heard are forward sounding - they are very spacious.

 There are some forward sounding EF95 tubes. I don't consider that a plus though. But, everything in audio is subjective. 

 Ones that come to mind are the Russian 6J1P or 6J1P-EV, WE403B and GE 5-stars. The cheap CV4010 from Amalgamated (they sell them for 2 bucks on e-bay) are very forward and compressed like a wall of sound. Don't really care for them but they have a SS sound to them.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have some Amperex EF91s. They're really cool tubes. They light up real bright when you first turn them on, so don't freak out! They look pretty old too and they have cool looking blue glass in the middle.

 The cheap CV4010 from Amalgamated (they sell them for 2 bucks on e-bay) are very forward and compressed like a wall of sound. Don't really care for them but they have a SS sound to them._

 

Yeah, I noticed that my other Amperex 5654's flash like that too. Are you referring to these 2 dollar Mullards CV4010?

Mulllard CV4010 6AK5 6096 Little Dot NOS NIB - eBay (item 270369317449 end time Apr-07-09 13:41:07 PDT)


----------



## Max F

Yeah, those are the ones. They aren't Mullards since there are no Phyllips/Mullard codes on them. They are pretty in your face which maybe other peoples cup of tea. I thought they sucked, lol! They're cheap though!


----------



## erikzen

I bought SemiAudiophile's 6H30Pi-EH tubes. I put them in about a half hour ago. He hadn't used them so they are basically new.

 I can say that I think the sound is louder - the amp seems more powerful.

 Things seem a bit clearer - the stereo imaging is better and the soundstage a little wider.

 Highs are crisp - there's no more of that silky smooth, yet undetailed sound that I was getting with some of the driver tubes (1958 Mullard EF95 in there now).

 Is this consistent with what other people hear with upgraded power tubes or is this placebo?

 The amp does seem to be running a bit hotter. What are the dangers of running these tubes? Will the higher temperature cause the tubes to burn out faster, or is there a chance the amp could be damaged.

 This is an amp purchased in February so it has the correct resistor.


----------



## cloverp




----------



## Philski

Can anyone tell me whether the tube rolling suggestions in this thread for the MKIII can also apply to the MKIV SE?


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Philski* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone tell me whether the tube rolling suggestions in this thread for the MKIII can also apply to the MKIV SE?_

 

The driver tubes can...not the power tubes....


----------



## dukja

The M8161s finally come with very good package. They both are in box with matched label. They read like:
 Valve Electronic
 CV 4015 / QDD
 0621 / 5960 99 000 / 4015

 The label on the tube is:
 front: Mullard M8161 made in Gt. Britain.
 back: 6065 / 7844 / CV4015 / KB / QDD

 Maybe some of you can help to decode these numbers? 

 After I put in the jumpers and tubes, turned on, and immediately, I found the sound is much clear with good air and space between sound sources. The scratchy feeling is totally gone. Vocal sounds still smooth and now with good airy feeling. The sound stage is still forward and smaller comparing to Arietta, but is farther and more spacious than that of old M8100 tubes. I am very surprised for the improvement.

 Even though they have not been burn in, I already like its sweet sound much better than M8100. Maybe they were old and due to be replaced or maybe it is just EF95's family sound. But thanks to all who have directed me to explore EF92 tubes. This pair of new tubes finally bring back my interest in tube amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I was quite disappointed before).

 Now I guess I'll try to get some EF91 to see if that will sound better or too airy for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe Amperex M8083 EF91 for the start? Other suggestion? Thanks again!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dukja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you both for the very helpful information. I got two pair of Russian power tube for $16 and one pair of M8161 for $25 from ebay. They claimed to be matched with some measured numbers (but they have multiple pairs. so...)

 Hopefully, it will clean up the LD sound a little bit. The more I compare LD (old tubes) with Arietta, the more I found that the sound quality of LD is kind of scratchy at certain freq. bands. Violin and vocal sound acceptable but closer to me with LD, but piano sounds rough(again certain freq. bands are not right). It makes me switch to Arietta whenever I listen to piano works. I'll see if the new tubes help._


----------



## Oskari

*M8161* Mullard type code for premium EF92

*6065* US RMA/RETMA/EIA type number

*CV4015* UK government type code

*5960 99 000 4015* NATO stock number

 5960 = thermionic valve, 99 = UK, 4015 = CV4015

*7844* date YYWW

*KB / QDD* made to UK government specification by Mullard at Mitcham (I think)

 Is there an etched code on the tube?


----------



## dukja

Thanks! It is good to know the date code. They both has matched codes, which help to ensure that they are likely to be matched ones as the vendor claimed.

 I don't know anything about etched code. Where can I find it on the tube?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*M8161* Mullard type code for premium EF92

*6065* US RMA/RETMA/EIA type number

*CV4015* UK government type code

*5960 99 000 4015* NATO stock number

 5960 = thermionic valve, 99 = UK, 4015 = CV4015

*7844* date YYWW

*KB / QDD* made to UK government specification by Mullard at Mitcham (I think)

 Is there an etched code on the tube?_


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dukja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know anything about etched code. Where can I find it on the tube?_

 

Like the dark characters here:


----------



## dukja

Thanks for the pointing. One has 
 6Y1 (or 6YI)
 R8G3

 Another one has:
 6Y1
 R8H2

 What do those mean? Thanks again for the education.


----------



## Oskari

*6Y*=CV4015, M8161 *1*=version _1_

*R*=Mullard, Mitcham *8*=197_8_ *G*=July *3*=_3_rd week of month / *H*=August *2*=_2_nd week of month

 The tubes were made a couple of weeks apart (nothing to worry about) but CV-labeled during the same week (7844).


----------



## dukja

Cool! You are the man.

 Is there anywhere on the net that we can find such great info? Or we just have to consult you every time we got tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really thanks, I never though that there is so much info in such encrypted form.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dukja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there anywhere on the net that we can find such great info? Or we just have to consult you every time we got tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I hope not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




CV valves
Philips/Valvo/Mullard Valve Codes


----------



## PascalT

Just an updated "Review" on the WE403b tubes I got a week or two ago after using them everyday. I think I've found the tubes I was looking for all this time. They sound wonderful. Very balanced tubes.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

had my Amperex M8083 EF91 for a while now and had a good listen on them. to describe them, i wouldn't exactly say spacious, although they are pretty spacious. i would say they are as spacious as the other EF95/EF92 families but maybe just a tad more. i didn't like them at first listen, they sounded a bit harsh/edgy. they are definitely softer than the other family tubes. i usually have my amp set between 9-10 o'clock position. but with these i have them set between 12-1 o'clock. after a good 2nd, 3rd listen, they definitely don't sound as warm/lush as the Amperex 5654 EF95 but they do sound smooth, natural kinda like the mullards M8161's and quite detailed. they don't seem to sound bright at all and they definitely have that Amperex sound to them (that powerful, robust sound). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i still don't feel that my HD650's go well with this amp though. after all the tubes i tried so far, my HD650's still sounded veiled/bloated when matched with this amp. just not as detailed and clear as using a SS.


----------



## TubeStack

(So many Mk III threads... sorry for the similar posts...)

 I absolutely love my LD II++ and am thinking about picking up a Mk III.

 However, I've read that the Mk III is more solid-state-like, and lacks some of the "liquid mids and vocal intimacy" of the II++.

 Have others found this to be true? Is the Mk III drastically different than the II++ in terms of liquid mids and general tubey-ness? If so, are there certain tube rolling combos that will help make it more like the II++ in regards to these qualities?

 Thanks for any input you can offer!


----------



## TubeStack

(double post)


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TubeStack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(So many Mk III threads... sorry for the similar posts...)

 I absolutely love my LD II++ and am thinking about picking up a Mk III.

 However, I've read that the Mk III is more solid-state-like, and lacks some of the "liquid mids and vocal intimacy" of the II++.

 Have others found this to be true? Is the Mk III drastically different than the II++ in terms of liquid mids and general tubey-ness? If so, are there certain tube rolling combos that will help make it more like the II++ in regards to these qualities?

 Thanks for any input you can offer! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have not heard the II++ so I can't compare the two. I do have a solid state amp and a Stax amp. The MKIII definitely has a warmer sound, with lusher midrange and greater soundstage. I don't know if the MKIII is the tubiest sounding amp out there but it's definitely different than the solid state amps I have.


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SemiAudiophile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i still don't feel that my HD650's go well with this amp though. after all the tubes i tried so far, my HD650's still sounded veiled/bloated when matched with this amp. just not as detailed and clear as using a SS._

 

Two things:

 1. Do you have the newer version of the HD650?
 2. Have you broken in your headphones at least 200 hours?

 I don't hear any veil at all with my HD650 and the LD MKIII. I did when I had a portable amp. I should also say that with my Squeezebox3 I have to put the gain at 3 to have the volume knob at 11 o'clock. It puts out 2v.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Two things:

 1. Do you have the newer version of the HD650?
 2. Have you broken in your headphones at least 200 hours?

 I don't hear any veil at all with my HD650 and the LD MKIII. I did when I had a portable amp. I should also say that with my Squeezebox3 I have to put the gain at 3 to have the volume knob at 11 o'clock. It puts out 2v._

 

1. mines are older version HD650. 
 2. yes they are broken in and well over the 200 hour mark. 

 i'm using lowest gain setting with my Grado's (which is usually plenty loud enough). with my Senns i use highest gain setting and it is still veiled.


----------



## Max F

Well, maybe there is something with the whole new vs old HD650s.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, maybe there is something with the whole new vs old HD650s._

 

that's what i was thinking...but not everyone has the newer HD650's though. strange that i'm the only one that finds them to not be a good match. something wrong with my amp?


----------



## PascalT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SemiAudiophile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1. mines are older version HD650. 
 2. yes they are broken in and well over the 200 hour mark. 

 i'm using lowest gain setting with my Grado's (which is usually plenty loud enough). with my Senns i use highest gain setting and it is still veiled._

 

I think i have the old version and mine doesn't sound veiled anymore with the new WE403b tubes I got. I also changed my gain setting to "7" (whatever level is under the "10") and it sounds very good.


----------



## Max F

Also, i think if you listen to Grados a great deal then that will likely make you think that the Senns are veiled. 

 Sort of like being outside in the sun and coming inside - everything looks dark for a few minutes. You need for your ears and brain to adjust to the sound.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, i think if you listen to Grados a great deal then that will likely make you think that the Senns are veiled._

 

i don't think it's that. i mean when i pair the two together it's almost unbearable. i have to try really hard to hear for the details and adjust to the sound, but it's clearly not the right sound.

 i'm debating whether i should sell off my old 650s and get a newer pair. but i like the dark/mellow sound of them though, that's what kind of drew me to them...i'm not sure if i'd like the new one if it's snappier, but the veil on the old one sure is annoying as hell. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit: just took off the pads and saw that mines are the "newer" ones with the metallic screening. soo weird...


----------



## Max F

I would sell the amp and get the HD600s.


----------



## TubeStack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have not heard the II++ so I can't compare the two. I do have a solid state amp and a Stax amp. The MKIII definitely has a warmer sound, with lusher midrange and greater soundstage. I don't know if the MKIII is the tubiest sounding amp out there but it's definitely different than the solid state amps I have._

 

Cool, thanks for the input.

 I've got a Mk III on its way in the mail, now.


----------



## J.P.6

I got myself some Mullard EF92 (M8083) tubes the other day for my MK III when it arrives. They're both properly matched, NOS and the military version. Cost just over £10, pretty good I think.

 Does anyone use the upgraded jumpers? Worth getting?


----------



## J.P.6

Whoops.. Double post.


----------



## ScottieB

If your little dot is new you won't need jumpers at all. Last summer, around June/July they started using DIP switches instead of jumpers.


----------



## J.P.6

I bought it second hand, I believe it is about a year old so will probably have jumpers.


----------



## Max F

I think they are going back to jumpers. Something about the soldering sometime melting the litte switch boxes during construction. I was posted by David on the little dot forum. I'm not sure if the new ones are already shipping with the jumpers though. I'm just happy I got the switches!


----------



## ScottieB

Ha yeah me too Max - getting to the switches is hard enough! I don't think my fat fingers would do too well with having to place jumpers in there!


----------



## TubeStack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *J.P.6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got myself some Mullard EF92 (M8083) tubes the other day for my MK III when it arrives. They're both properly matched, NOS and the military version. Cost just over £10, pretty good I think.

 Does anyone use the upgraded jumpers? Worth getting?_

 

I've got Mullard M8161s in my II++ and just order a set of two matched pairs for the MK III, when it arrives.

 Are the stock power tubes that come with the MK III similar to the ones that came with the II++?


----------



## J.P.6

They are the 6C19 aren't they?


----------



## dukja

I have been waiting for the 6N6P to come from Ukraine since 4/7. The tracking shows that tubes arrive NYC on 4/11 and then has been sitting there for more than 10 days. Finally, the USPS tracking shows it is out of NYC facility today. Is it due to US customs or not? 

 Due to some power tube imbalance, I have been waiting for them for two weeks. It is really killing me. 

 On the other hand, both my Arietta and new M8083 came from Germany and UK in 8 days. Anybody has problem with shipping from Ukraine?

 The new M8083 does sound like recommendation I got here: very close to SS sound: Clean, air, very spacious, and fast. It is very interesting experience changing from old EF95 to EF92 and now EF91. I have not compare them closely with either DT880 or HD600. When I got a good pair of power tube, definitely I'll report back the different sounding they have.


----------



## Max F

Yeah, those tubes from Ukraine start their journey buy horse and cart, I think. You should get them any day now. I think mine took 2 1/2 weeks. They are well packaged though and a great price!


----------



## erikzen

Just wondering how hot is too hot. I picked up a pair of EH power tubes. The amp definitely runs hotter now. Not so hot that I can't touch the faceplate, but it's very warm, whereas with the stock tubes it never felt hot. I never run these tubes for more than 3 or 4 hours, but is all the extra head damaging the amp or the tubes?


----------



## erikzen

I think this may have been my first double post.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering how hot is too hot. I picked up a pair of EH power tubes. The amp definitely runs hotter now. Not so hot that I can't touch the faceplate, but it's very warm, whereas with the stock tubes it never felt hot. I never run these tubes for more than 3 or 4 hours, but is all the extra head damaging the amp or the tubes?_

 

Can't answer your question, Erik sorry, except to say that my amp gets pretty hot even with stock tubes, and I just have a fan blowing over it which cools it way down, could be a simple solution.

 But how do those EH tubes sound? One of my stock power tubes is on the fritz and I'm looking at replacement options...


----------



## erikzen

The EH tubes sound good - a definite improvement. They seem to give the amp more power. The sound just has more weight to it.


----------



## Max F

Mine get pretty warm but not too hot to touch. That would concern me. One thing I noticed is that even a ceilling fan makes a big difference in keeping it cooler. I have the MK-III with the 6N6P-i tubes.


----------



## ScottieB

So from what I've been told, using my low-impedance Grados with the LDMKIII puts quite a big load on the power tubes, and can cause them to wear out faster than using higher impedance headphones. It was recommended that I try an impedance adapter (around 200ohm) but I am having trouble finding one - ideally it'd use 1/4" jacks so I won't have to use adapters. Anyone know where I can find a good one?


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So from what I've been told, using my low-impedance Grados with the LDMKIII puts quite a big load on the power tubes, and can cause them to wear out faster than using higher impedance headphones. It was recommended that I try an impedance adapter (around 200ohm) but I am having trouble finding one - ideally it'd use 1/4" jacks so I won't have to use adapters. Anyone know where I can find a good one?_

 

where'd you hear that? i use grado's with mine all the time.


----------



## ScottieB

David (the local LD guy, think he's the ebay seller), and then Prickly Peete - they said that with OTL amps, the load is much heavier on low impedance headphones. This was evidenced when I went to listen with my Grados the other day and was getting bad distortion from 1 channel. I narrowed it down to one of the power tubes. I'd never gotten distortion before - the tubes are maybe 9 months old. But I didn't get the distortion with my 300ohm Senns - so I emailed David and that's what he told me - said one tube was probably on its way out, but I didn't hear it with the Sennheisers because they don't require the tubes to work as hard. here's a quote from the email:

  Quote:


 For an OTL tube amplifier like the Little Dot MK III, the 300 ohm Senns are a very easy load, where as the the low impedance Grados are by comparison a more difficult load. If the power tube is on the cusp of going out, it would explain why you hear distortion with Grados and not with your Senns. 
 

he's not saying you can't use the Grados, just that the tubes need to work harder with them - seems counter-intuitive to me, but I wouldn't know... a impedance adapter was recommended to prolong tube life.


----------



## Skylab

This is absolutely right. High impedance headphones like a lot of *voltage*, and OTL amps are good at that. Low impedance cans demand a lot of *current*, and OTL amps are not so good at that.


----------



## dukja

Just tried some more with M8083 (EF91) and really like their clear and spacious sound. I did not notice any negative change switching from M8161 (EF92) yet. It really cleans up the sonic stage quite a bit. It is also fun to see the "fireworks" ever time M8083 lights up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also I notice that my M8083 seems to remove the channel imbalance. Initially, I thought the imbalance comes from the power tube (since I have been told the M8161 is matched). It turns out the M8161 may have some effect there. I guess when I have bad combination (same imbalance on both power and drive tubes) and it is more noticeable than a better comb (opposite imbalance between power and drive tubes). Is it possible? (Haven't done much switching around.)

 It seems tube mismatch is inevitable. What is your solution when you have imbalanced tubes?

 DT880 is much picky and revealing on the imbalance. HD600 is more forgiving. This is clearly understandable due to the strength of DT880 in details and soundstage.


----------



## TubeStack

Hey there -

 Just got my MK III yesterday and _I am loving this little baby_! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Question: I've got some Ulyanov 6S19P-B power tubes I've used with my LD II++. Would these be usable with the MK III? 

 Thanks.


----------



## Max F

Nope.

 You can use 6N6P or 6N6P-I. David even just recently mentioned that you can also drop in the 6N30P if you have a new version (v2) of the MKIII. It will run a little warmer though - and you'll pay out the arse for those tubes. The 6N6P is a good and most importantly, cheap, tube.


----------



## dukja

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dukja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also I notice that my M8083 seems to remove the channel imbalance. Initially, I thought the imbalance comes from the power tube (since I have been told the M8161 is matched). It turns out the M8161 may have some effect there. _

 

FINALLY, my 6N6P power tubes arrived. They started their journey on 4/7 from Ukraine and I have been waiting for it everyday.

 But patience pays off. My LD MKIII sound like a TOTALLY new amp. I am so satisfied by its new sound. All the muddy, hot, noisy feeling is gone with more detailed sound. Sound gets focused and condensed through out the whole freq span. Most importantly the soundstage is dramaticlly improved with DT880. And I am using M8161 (not the spacious M8083)!!!! I was very impressed by M8083 with old power tube, but M8161 with new power tube comes even beyond that.

 The imbalance is also disappeared. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think the now balanced sound is one of the sources bring dramatic soundstage improvment.

 WoW! I didn't know that the old power tubes will cause that kind of damage to SQ. I know they have been old (~1000 hrs according to previous owner, Nick), but not THAT bad. Poor Nick, he must sold it becuse of the sonic torture of those old power and drive tubes (M8100).

 I was set to get new tubes since the 1st day I got it. Unfortunately, I was suffered so long due to the long long shipping time.

 I read some posts mention that tube amps have great soundstage and I couldn't believe it at all. Now, I know what are they talking about. Wow!

 Now I get the chance to really listen to the difference of M8083 and M8161.


----------



## Max F

Nice, time for some more tube rolling then. If you got your tubes from Ukraine, then you probably got a nice reserve of backup tubes. Enjoy!


----------



## dukja

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice, time for some more tube rolling then. If you got your tubes from Ukraine, then you probably got a nice reserve of backup tubes. Enjoy!_

 

So did you mean that those tubes from Ukraine are pretty good? Do you have some known good sources there? Unless they are very good or the long shipping time really make me hesitate (but now I got 2 reserves 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 The ebay seller is doing a great job labeling the tube will several numbers to help the buyer match them (I got 4). I don't quite get those (there are two bold numbers, and two labeled "Id or Io" and two labeled "S"). I just pick two that have closed matched bold number (reads 12.2/12.2 & 12.3/12.5).

 Any idea? Thanks!


----------



## Max F

No I meant that they usually sell you a bunch of tubes - not just two - for a good price. So now you have some backups.


----------



## TubeStack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope.

 You can use 6N6P or 6N6P-I. David even just recently mentioned that you can also drop in the 6N30P if you have a new version (v2) of the MKIII. It will run a little warmer though - and you'll pay out the arse for those tubes. The 6N6P is a good and most importantly, cheap, tube._

 

Ah, thanks. That's too bad.

 Will check out the 6N6P. Is there a certain manufacturer/brand to look for?


----------



## Max F

They're all Russian made. Some say certain factories are better than other, but I don't know. There are plenty available on e-bay - most are from Eastern Europe.


----------



## MinoX

Hello,
 I would like to know what is the difference between this tube
CV4015 M8161 EF92 9D6 MULLARD KQDDK TUBE VALVE NOS PAIR su eBay.it Audio, Vintage Electronics, Consumer Electronics
 and this
CV4015 M8161 EF92 9D6 MULLARD QDD TUBE VALVE NOS E PAIR su eBay.it Audio, Vintage Electronics, Consumer Electronics
 Which is better?
 Thanks.


----------



## dukja

Oskari gave pretty good interpretation of tubes. Please read the posts and follow the links there:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/lit...ml#post5598900

 Good luck!


----------



## TubeStack

I'm interested in trying the most tubey-sounding driver tubes going. As in lush, liquid, warm, creamy - just totally over-the-top in all these aspects.

 What would be a good choice for this?


----------



## erikzen

I'm using some Raytheon JRP-6AK5W tubes right now and they sound pretty tubey to me. I also found the Western Electric 403B to be even more lush with a bigger soundstage. Others may disagree.


----------



## TubeStack

Cool, will check those out, thanks.

 Looking to try the warmest, most gooey, syrupy and creamy tubes going... willing to sacrifice detail for all this gushy goodness, as well.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MinoX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to know what is the difference..._

 

I'm not sure there is any real difference other than that they were made a couple of years apart.


----------



## ScottieB

So... anyone tried the Sylvania blue-glass 6AK5? Yen has them but the price is even higher than usual... wonder if they sound great or just novelty because of the blue. I know some really liked the Sylvanias they got, but the one pair I tried was horribly microphonic. Any thoughts?

Sylvania Blue Glass 6AK5 5654 Little Dot Amplifier EF95 - eBay (item 280330926579 end time Jun-05-09 02:05:06 PDT)


----------



## BombayTheIndian

It seems like people have been looking for these. I think I finally found some real military spec (not general consumer) M8161 Mullards. I'm probably going to order some today:

CV4015 M8161 EF92 9D6 MULLARD QDD TUBE VALVE NOS PAIR - (eBay.ca item 270280786849 end time 26-May-09 07:42:27 EDT)

 From what I've been seeing on ebay, there's a couple people selling what's labeled at M8161 tubes, but their pictures are STOCK images I've seen 3-4 places online. It makes me think that they're going to not be the real thing once you get them (like equivalents). Even Yen is selling equivalents (CV131) with a label of it being = to M8161. To my understanding, yes the tube will work, but you're getting different sound out of the thing.

 These look good though, what do you think?


----------



## BombayTheIndian

**double post**


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So... anyone tried the Sylvania blue-glass 6AK5? Yen has them but the price is even higher than usual... wonder if they sound great or just novelty because of the blue. I know some really liked the Sylvanias they got, but the one pair I tried was horribly microphonic. Any thoughts?

Sylvania Blue Glass 6AK5 5654 Little Dot Amplifier EF95 - eBay (item 280330926579 end time Jun-05-09 02:05:06 PDT)_

 


 I'd like to hear what people think on those, too. The price seems to be pretty high for them. I wonder how they compare to the Voshod 6ZH1P's? Speaking of those, anyone notice that the price of these have gone up in general now that more people are starting to praise their (originally) inexpensive, diamond-in-the-rough quality?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BombayTheIndian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to hear what people think on those, too. The price seems to be pretty high for them. I wonder how they compare to the Voshod 6ZH1P's? Speaking of those, anyone notice that the price of these have gone up in general now that more people are starting to praise their (originally) inexpensive, diamond-in-the-rough quality?_

 

That's pretty much been the trend with EF95 tubes in general... since the MKIII and Darkvoice amps have become popular the price of these tubes (especially NOS) has skyrocketed. Not to mention that NOS tube only get more rare as time goes on by definition.


----------



## Max F

Most tubes that I buy are still pretty reasonable, you just have to know what to look for and have patience. 4-12 dollars per tube seems about the (reasonable) going rate for EF95, EF92, and EF91 tubes..


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So... anyone tried the Sylvania blue-glass 6AK5? Yen has them but the price is even higher than usual... wonder if they sound great or just novelty because of the blue. I know some really liked the Sylvanias they got, but the one pair I tried was horribly microphonic. Any thoughts?

Sylvania Blue Glass 6AK5 5654 Little Dot Amplifier EF95 - eBay (item 280330926579 end time Jun-05-09 02:05:06 PDT)_

 

Those tubes are made in England, so maybe they are made by Mullard or by Amperex. I'm curious if they have a Phillips/Mullard code eched in on them.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most tubes that I buy are still pretty reasonable, you just have to know what to look for and have patience. 4-12 dollars per tube seems about the (reasonable) going rate for EF95, EF92, and EF91 tubes.._

 

Care to enlighten me? I've had mostly nothing but bad luck buying from anyone other than Yen.


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most tubes that I buy are still pretty reasonable, you just have to know what to look for and have patience. 4-12 dollars per tube seems about the (reasonable) going rate for EF95, EF92, and EF91 tubes.._

 

I agree! Have you found any real military spec Mullard M8161's for a cheaper price than 30/pair shipped?


----------



## Max F

E-bay mainly. List below are from e-bay unless noted.

 Like my last and best purchase. Five Sylvania 6AK5WB tubes for 20 bucks including shipping. 6AK5 EF95 6J1 SYLVANIA BLACK PLATE NOS SLEEVE - eBay (item 130303982804 end time May-03-09 20:09:20 PDT)

 Other best tubes:

 Raytheon 6AK5W from thetubecenter.com for 4 bucks a piece.
 CEI EF92 (not sure who originally made them in England) for 5 bucks a piece.
 Vishod 6ZH1P-EV - 17 bucks for 4 (including shipping)
 Mullard CV4010 - 18 bucks for 2 (including shipping)

 Others:
 Brimar EF91 - two for 9 bucks including shipping
 WE 403B for 10 bucks a piece from thetubecenter.com
 GE 5-stars for 4 bucks a piece from antique electronic supply
 Mullard EF91s for 3 bucks a piece.

 Plus a few crappy tubes I got burned on, but overall I had a good experience. Granted I could have just bought the best tubes from Yen and be done with it, but I've had a good time trying out all these tubes. Plus I'm just cheap and like finding a good deal.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SNIP
 Plus a few crappy tubes I got burned on, but overall I had a good experience. Granted I could have just bought the best tubes from Yen and be done with it, but I've had a good time trying out all these tubes. Plus I'm just cheap and like finding a good deal._

 

haha thanks for that. Guess I've just had bad luck the few times I've tried. I keep looking on ebay but am wary after a few I thought were gonna be killer came with problems (like when I tried to get the Sylvanias). 

 Anyway thanks for the tips. I'll just keep scouring the 'net.


----------



## Max F

I'm pretty sure those sylvania tubes I got (black plate round getter - 6ak5wb) are THE tubes everyone was raving about earlier in this thread. I'm pretty sure that guy sold 3 or 4 sets of 5 tubes for $15+5 bucks shipping. Pretty sweet deal. You got to look everyday though.

 I'm giving up all my secrets now that I'm pretty much done hoarding tubes!


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BombayTheIndian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems like people have been looking for these. I think I finally found some real military spec (not general consumer) M8161 Mullards. I'm probably going to order some today:

CV4015 M8161 EF92 9D6 MULLARD QDD TUBE VALVE NOS PAIR - (eBay.ca item 270280786849 end time 26-May-09 07:42:27 EDT)


 These look good though, what do you think?_

 

Unfortunately those are the small shield Mullards. The small shields are not bad at all but the large shield (military) version is noticeably better. The biggest difference is with bass and overall weight to various instruments like the piano, bass, guitar etc. The large shields are imo the best overall tubes for the MKIII.

 IIRC the CV131 sounds closer to the large shield 8161 then the small shield 8161s do. The small shields are a newer stock. I would buy these instead Mullard CV131. Clean those pins until they are shiny and you are good to go.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_E-bay mainly. List below are from e-bay unless noted.

 Like my last and best purchase. Quad of Sylvania 6AK5WB tubes for 20 bucks including shipping. 6AK5 EF95 6J1 SYLVANIA BLACK PLATE NOS SLEEVE - eBay (item 130303982804 end time May-03-09 20:09:20 PDT)

 Other best tubes:

 Raytheon 6AK5W from thetubecenter.com for 4 bucks a piece.
 CEI EF92 (not sure who originally made them in England) for 5 bucks a piece.
 Vishod 6ZH1P-EV - 17 bucks for 4 (including shipping)
 Mullard CV4010 - 18 bucks for 2 (including shipping)

 Others:
 Brimar EF91 - two for 9 bucks including shipping
 WE 403B for 10 bucks a piece from thetubecenter.com
 GE 5-stars for 4 bucks a piece from antique electronic supply
 Mullard EF91s for 3 bucks a piece.

 Plus a few crappy tubes I got burned on, but overall I had a good experience. Granted I could have just bought the best tubes from Yen and be done with it, but I've had a good time trying out all these tubes. Plus I'm just cheap and like finding a good deal._

 


 My experience pretty well parallels yours... I've bought a few hundred tubes off of eBay and just had one bad experience but the seller refunded my money on that purchase. I did have to leave bad feedback for him before he offered a refund if i retracted it. Sellers are usually afraid of bad feedback..You can usually buy alot of tubes for the amount that you'd pay Yen for one pair, and getting some hidden gems for good deals is more appealling to me. And as you said, if you're patient and observant you can get some excellent tubes. Alot of times the pics of the tubes will help you find real deals...Last week I got 2 Amperex Bugle Boys that were only advertised as Amperex..The photos clearly showed them to be Bugle Boys and I got them for $10 But deals are alot harder to find than they were a year ago...

 Those Sylvania 6ak5wb's are a real steal..Congrats....A few head-fiers thought they were just as good or better than the Sylvania Golds...I originally picked up 10 about a year ago and they are my favorite 6ak5. I think they were from the same lot as yours as the sleeves look identical even down to the check mark on the individual boxes... Let us know what u think of them after u get them burnt in...


----------



## punk_guy182

I head that the civilian brand of the M8161 that Yen sells is very similar to the military spec with the large shield on them.
 I have a pair of Sylvania 6ak5 with round getters and black plates if anyone is interested. They were bought matched and tested by Yen.
 Check my sig for the ad.


----------



## punk_guy182

*double post*


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

I have both the Mullard M8161 and the CV131 civilian version, I'd say they sound pretty much the same they certainly have the same construction.


----------



## BombayTheIndian

I'm pretty excited for the driver tubes I've got coming:

 Amperex EF92 6CQ6
 Mullard EF91 Mil Specs

 From what I've gathered from this thread, it sounds like the EF91s are really similar to the EF92s, which are more tubey, open, and have better bass than most EF95 tubes (I'm currently using the Voshod EF95 6ZH1P-EVs. I like them, but they tend to make it sound more SS, IMO (too crisp for my liking), even though my source is a tube CD player).

 What are people's thoughts on the Amperex EF92? I know they are super rare to come by now, so I'm incredibly pleased with myself in finding some 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Would anyone here care to comment on them?

 I'll be sure to post reviews of them, comparing all three, as soon as I get them burned in. I'm not looking forward to switching jumpers each time I go between EF91/EF92 to EF95, though


----------



## Donnyhifi

I found the Russian 6Zh1P-EV somewhat disappointing, muffled, like someone put a blanket over the music, the stock ones have greater extension but less full in the mids and the bass is looser. 

 I'm thinking what should I try next, I would like the mids and bass like the Russian tubes but with greater treble extension and detail. What do you all recommend? 

 Thanks,

 Donny


----------



## Donnyhifi

Sorry about the double post!


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Donnyhifi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found the Russian 6Zh1P-EV somewhat disappointing, muffled, like someone put a blanket over the music, the stock ones have greater extension but less full in the mids and the bass is looser. _

 

Strange, I wouldn't characterize them like this at all. They are well extended at both ends - maybe not as tubey in the midrange. Very good, well rounded tube. 

 Do you have the ones made at Vishod plant with the ridges in the glass?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Donnyhifi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found the Russian 6Zh1P-EV somewhat disappointing, muffled, like someone put a blanket over the music, the stock ones have greater extension but less full in the mids and the bass is looser. 

 I'm thinking what should I try next, I would like the mids and bass like the Russian tubes but with greater treble extension and detail. What do you all recommend? 

 Thanks,

 Donny_

 

Who did you get the 6ZH1P-EV from? The Russian tubes vary a lot by manufacturer and year, you would want to make sure that the russian tubes you get are the right ones. I have a few unmatched tubes from random sellers on ebay and they don't sound nearly a good as the pair I got from Yen Audio.

 - DoA


----------



## CDBacklash

semi-offtopic: has anyone tried a LDMKIII with a DT880/600 or DT770/600?


----------



## Donnyhifi

Not sure where they came from to be honest. I bought the Amp on the forums and the tubes were thrown into the package. The previous owner also got them with the amp when he picked it up, not sure about how they were acquired and I have a feeling they aren't matched and possibly faulty then. I'm thinking of trying something some new from the store here


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Donnyhifi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure where they came from to be honest. I bought the Amp on the forums and the tubes were thrown into the package. The previous owner also got them with the amp when he picked it up, not sure about how they were acquired and I have a feeling they aren't matched and possibly faulty then. I'm thinking of trying something some new from the store here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Try the Yen Audio store:

eBay Store - Yen Audio: Little Dot, 6ak5, Little Dot headphone amp

 - DoA


----------



## Max F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Donnyhifi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure where they came from to be honest. I bought the Amp on the forums and the tubes were thrown into the package. The previous owner also got them with the amp when he picked it up, not sure about how they were acquired and I have a feeling they aren't matched and possibly faulty then. I'm thinking of trying something some new from the store here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What does the writing on the glass say? Does the outer glass have ridges?


----------



## Donnyhifi

At work atm, definitely has the ridges though the dates are way off, one was dated 83 and the other was dated 88. I had another pair which the amp came with but one was written in silver and one was gold. Most of the writing was worn off so I was uncomfortable trying this pair but after trying it yesterday for the first time and it sounded more airy with much better treble extension, they also sound better than the stock GE ones accross the board. I may have upgraditis so I will look into the tubes that are talked about in this thread, thanks guys for your help!


----------



## erikzen

I have a bunch of unmatched tubes. Maybe I have tin ears but I don't really hear any problems with the unmatched tubes I've tried. I do have a few "premium" matched pairs to compare to. The difference between tubes has more to do with the build than the matching.

 I think there may be too much emphasis placed on matched pairs, especially when I was able to get some pretty decent tubes - 403B comes to mind - at cheap prices when not matched.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a bunch of unmatched tubes. Maybe I have tin ears but I don't really hear any problems with the unmatched tubes I've tried. I do have a few "premium" matched pairs to compare to. The difference between tubes has more to do with the build than the matching.

 I think there may be too much emphasis placed on matched pairs, especially when I was able to get some pretty decent tubes - 403B comes to mind - at cheap prices when not matched._

 


 I do have to agree with you. And I'm curious on why Yen doesn't state the results of his testing and matching the tubes.. Tubes can be matched and be on the low end of "good" or be in the "strong" end. Most of the tubes I buy on Ebay that are tested have the actual results stated and written on the boxes. And the testing and matching shouldn't be that expensive. For instance TubeDepot charges nothing to test the tubes and $2 per tube to match them. Alot of sellers test their tubes to cull out the shorts and test emissions anyways so its not alot more trouble to write down the results and match them. While I am certain that Yen provides a good service for those unwilling to look for deals on eBay, he does charge a very high premium for said services.


----------



## Max F

I think matching is over-rated.

 I've only had a balance issue on a few tubes that were not matched. Actually a pair of one of my favorites, Raytheon 6ak5w black plates 1950s, are mismatched. I actually like it and put the stronger one on the right side. For some reason, my right ear isn't as good as my left and it helps balance the image in the center of my head (for mono recordings). I know it sounds weird but its true.

 For the balanced tubes, I can put on my headphones either as is or put the right driver on my left ear and vice versa. The center (mono recordings) will be slightly left center either way i try the headphones. My ears are really good, its just the left one is stronger.

 Don't get me wrong. Getting matched tubes is good, i'm just not going to pay a premium for it.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Has someone tested one of these tubes?

 Sylvania 5654W:
RÃ¶hre 5654W / 5654 W (EF95) "" SYLVANIA "" geprÃ¼ft NOS bei eBay.de: ElektronenrÃ¶hren (endet 18.06.09 15:46:36 MESZ)

 Valvo EF92:
MATCHED PAIR-EF92-CV131-6CQ6-VALVO-NOS-LITTLE DOT-BOX bei eBay.de: RÃ¶hren (endet 02.06.09 08:14:47 MESZ)


----------



## bigdirty

Shipped:

 EF92 6CQ6 M8161 CV4015 Mullard Tube Matched Quads

 6AK5 EF95 5654 CV4010 Mullard Tube Matched Quads

 First step into rolling. amp with well over 100 hours on the stock tubes. Anyone have experience with these tubes?


----------



## backtofront001

hey guys i have had my little dot for about 5 mos now and i am new to tube rolling. The amount of information in this thread is extremely overwhelming. If someone could recommend me some tubes so i can start my tube rolling adventure, that would be amazing. I love a big soundstage with a good amount of bass.

 My setup is as follows: PC - ASUS Xonar - Moodlab Concept NOS DAC - Little Dot MKIII - Beyer DT990

 Thanks a lot


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *backtofront001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys i have had my little dot for about 5 mos now and i am new to tube rolling. The amount of information in this thread is extremely overwhelming. If someone could recommend me some tubes so i can start my tube rolling adventure, that would be amazing. I love a big soundstage with a good amount of bass.

 My setup is as follows: PC - ASUS Xonar - Moodlab Concept NOS DAC - Little Dot MKIII - Beyer DT990

 Thanks a lot_

 

You really only need to read the first handful of pages to get going, it's not that hard.

 The VOSHOD 6ZH1P-EV / 6AK5 is also quite popular.


----------



## backtofront001

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You really only need to read the first handful of pages to get going, it's not that hard.

 The VOSHOD 6ZH1P-EV / 6AK5 is also quite popular._

 


 Haha, there is my problem - i read the last 10 pages. I ll go through the first couple and see if i still have questions

 Thanks!


----------



## Trance_Gott

I have played 10 hours Valvo EF92. Great bass but too much warm for me. I use the HD 650. The Sylvania 5654W i have played 20 hours. Better bass then stock tubes but the highs are too low. Today i put back the stock tubes into. In the moment the stock GEs 5654 (played 45 hours) are better than the others for me. Maybe i must more burn-in the Valvo and Sylvania. In a few days i will reveive the Voshod 6ZH1P-EV and 6H30-DR Powertubes. I hope that this will be a step forward to the stock tubes.


----------



## Bullseye

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trance_Gott* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has someone tested one of these tubes?

 Sylvania 5654W:
RÃ¶hre 5654W / 5654 W (EF95) "" SYLVANIA "" geprÃ¼ft NOS bei eBay.de: ElektronenrÃ¶hren (endet 18.06.09 15:46:36 MESZ)

 Valvo EF92:
MATCHED PAIR-EF92-CV131-6CQ6-VALVO-NOS-LITTLE DOT-BOX bei eBay.de: RÃ¶hren (endet 02.06.09 08:14:47 MESZ)_

 

Careful with the last buyer, rosmarie3878. Check this out:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/ba...seller-426871/


----------



## dukja

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trance_Gott* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have played 10 hours Valvo EF92. Great bass but too much warm for me. I use the HD 650. The Sylvania 5654W i have played 20 hours. Better bass then stock tubes but the highs are too low. Today i put back the stock tubes into. In the moment the stock GEs 5654 (played 45 hours) are better than the others for me. Maybe i must more burn-in the Valvo and Sylvania. In a few days i will reveive the Voshod 6ZH1P-EV and 6H30-DR Powertubes. I hope that this will be a step forward to the stock tubes._

 

Have you tried M8083? They are still my favorite after switching among M8100, M8161, and them. They are less airy and more "condensed" after burn it.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Quote:


 Careful with the last buyer, rosmarie3878. Check this out: 
 

I have not buy the tubes from ebay.

  Quote:


 Have you tried M8083? They are still my favorite after switching among M8100, M8161, and them. They are less airy and more "condensed" after burn it. 
 

No. I will first try the Voshod 6ZH1P-EV which a lot of people like. I am anxious to the 6H30-DR.


----------



## Pagail118

Just bought a bunch of tubes at a bargain price. All the tubes in my Sig, minus the M8100 for 84 cad$. I have yet to try them all ! So far the Tung-sol sounds good. The LM Ericsson hiss like hell, so I don't know what to do with them.

 if anyone is interested, especialy Canadian : dbtubes.com, that is where I got them !


----------



## morfic

while i try to fight through this lengthy thread, i have 6zh1p-ev coming, if you tried to many tubed, got your favorites and want to dump some driver o power tubes, send me a pm, mkii is still in customs, but no reason not to stockpile a few tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 took me a while to find the best opamps (with my XM5 (sold now), but now i happily enjoy a pair of them (ok dual channel version) in my MkV.
 so chances are i won't be happy until i tried a few more than "the russians"

 Thanks,

 Daniel


----------



## morfic

why is noone picking up those $85 (+$10 shipping) -DR? 
 my wallet will hate you when they are still there tonight and i end up being weak ;P


----------



## ScottieB

Wow.

 A while back I grabbed some Ediswan EF91/CV138. With my Senns I was kinda meh about them.

 But with my Grados they are fantastic! Really makes this combo (Compass-->MKIII) kick some serious ass!


----------



## Trance_Gott

The 6H30-DR arrived yesterday. I have played it for about 3hours with Sylvania 5654W. The bass seems deeper, the middles and highs are a little bit clearer. In percent i would say it is 15-20% better. The amp run heater. Not a giant jump to the 6H6N but hearable. I still waiting on the 6ZH1P-EV.


----------



## morfic

So somewhere in the last 40 pages of this thread it must be that is mentioned that MkII/MkIII now ship with the 120Ohm resistor in place and that the EF95/EF92 jumpers are now micro switches, nice surprise when i opened it to check my gain switches.

 Loving the MkII stock sound so far. Only about one hour on it thus far.

 Just in case i ordered more of the stock tubes, cruel that David shoved them in 6H30 boxes! ;P


----------



## morfic

Hm i may have been a little quick there yesterday, saw some 6ZH1P and thought i try them even if they are not ruggedized and are not extended life.
 I did not realize i ginored the 6AK7 towards the end of the listing title, i read the 6ZH1P, the ever so confusing 6J1P and EF95, ignoring the 6F32 and 6AK7.....
 From the picture they look like my 6ZH1P-EV, down to the ridges in the glass, i guess i will find out which part of the description is accurate and which he messed up on, i will be wondering until they get here :/
 Has anyone ever picked up those "6Zh1P/6J1P/EF95/6F32/6AK7 MATCHED PAIR TUBE VOSHOD 1976" from xryn?


 I DID IT! I'M THROUGH


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm i may have been a little quick there yesterday, saw some 6ZH1P and thought i try them even if they are not ruggedized and are not extended life.
 I did not realize i ginored the 6AK7 towards the end of the listing title, i read the 6ZH1P, the ever so confusing 6J1P and EF95, ignoring the 6F32 and 6AK7.....
 From the picture they look like my 6ZH1P-EV, down to the ridges in the glass, i guess i will find out which part of the description is accurate and which he messed up on, i will be wondering until they get here :/
 Has anyone ever picked up those "6Zh1P/6J1P/EF95/6F32/6AK7 MATCHED PAIR TUBE VOSHOD 1976" from xryn?


 I DID IT! I'M THROUGH_

 


 I'm pretty sure you are fine - those are the Russian EF95/6AK5 etc. If you google search you'll see a lot listed like "6J1P-EV / EF95 / 6F32 / 6AK7 Russian pentode tube"


----------



## morfic

You are right, he is not the only one listing 6AK7.
 He confirmed it's the ones i am looking for and said he would revise his listing.

 Now i can go back to waiting on those, hope they sound close to the -EV version.

 Picked up the Sovtek 6H30Pi-EH this morning too.

 Those small shield Mullards just don't pick up a lot of bass, but at least they sound great with my D1001 i put on for kicks.
 Listening to nothing but HD600 and MkV then MkII i hated the D1001 on my portable player. On the MkII i can not only tolerate them, i even enjoy them (until i go back to the HD600 after a song or two 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 Now i just need all the (cheap as in not sought after) drivers to come, see if any of them still offer something.
 If not i'll stock up on "The Russians".
 I don't want anything costing (much more) than $8 a tube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i Broke the rule for the current 6ZH1P-EV, but it was a quick way to make sure the tubes get here before the MkII. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This amp helped get the fascination with tube sound, it's like SS reproduces and amplifies digital sound too accurately, while tubes smooth out what is fed to them and allow for hours and hours of listening. Like getting a square wave vs a sine wave.


----------



## morfic

Picking up 8 '68 russians for $15 and 10 '84 russians for $22 i think makes up a little for the $24 for 2 from yen.
 I am basically just stock piling a good tube, all else will be to play around, but these russians are seriously nice.


----------



## morfic

If any of you won the 15 GE or 18 (14 Sylvania + 4 GE) auction and want to part with 2 each. i'll pay $3 each and ~$5 shipping usps.


----------



## NikZ

I bought 4 6n6p-i from a seller name alexer1 from Ukraine and I got a package with 4 green boxes inside today. At the side of the boxes it says 6N1n-EB in Russian. Are these the same as 6n6p-i????


----------



## Max F

What letters do the tubes have?

 It should say: 6Н6П and a dash with a backward N (can't find the font for it)


----------



## NikZ

The tubes I got are definitely not 6n6p. I compare them with my old 6n6p today and the size is different. They are a bit longer than 6n6p.Also the letters on the tubes are not 6H6n. It says 6N1n-EB on the tubes.
 I have contacted the seller and sent some photos. He said he sent me wrong tubes and will send me the correct ones.


----------



## morfic

double post :/


----------



## morfic

RightMark Audio Analyzer test: comparison

 While the above graph does not explain why i find the EF91 to be more well rounded compared to the EF92 Mullards, it does show that it does not have a higher distortion or much higher noise level.

 Those experiencing distortion may need to consider some headphones that better suit their preferences?

 SS == Small Shield
 LS == Large Shield
 The EF91s are CV4014 white box Mullards, no shield, KQDD/K


----------



## ScottieB

So I just won an ebay auction for some Ge 5-stars! I've had my eye on these ever since I got my MKIII, but like many did I vowed not to pay Yen prices any more (after a few pairs bought from him!). And recently he seems to have raised the price of his 5-Stars to $68 plus shipping! Ouch!

 Anyway I won an auction for 3 GE 5-Stars (assumed NOS) for $15.50! Not too shabby! The only difference is the lettering - on most of the ones I have seen before the lettering is white... but on the ones I won it is red. Does anyone know the significance, if any, of this?

 I'l let you know how they sound once I get a chance to burn in and listen... I'm pretty psyched!


----------



## Trance_Gott

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I just won an ebay auction for some Ge 5-stars! I've had my eye on these ever since I got my MKIII, but like many did I vowed not to pay Yen prices any more (after a few pairs bought from him!). And recently he seems to have raised the price of his 5-Stars to $68 plus shipping! Ouch!

 Anyway I won an auction for 3 GE 5-Stars (assumed NOS) for $15.50! Not too shabby! The only difference is the lettering - on most of the ones I have seen before the lettering is white... but on the ones I won it is red. Does anyone know the significance, if any, of this?

 I'l let you know how they sound once I get a chance to burn in and listen... I'm pretty psyched! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wait eagerly on your feedback.
 For me in the moment the best tubes are 6H30-DR in combination with 6ZH1P-EV.


----------



## bbird1927

Just ordered MK III to drive my K702 and Grado 325i
 Looking for some tubes for upgrading
 Anyone has any experience with 6ZH1p-EV and Mullard M8100 (big shield) ? 

 6ZH1P will be from Yen for $24 + $12 postage -- Quite expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Mullard 8100 will be from Wen Audio for $30 + $10 postage
 Significant improvement over stock tubes ? Worth buying it ? 

 Also, i cant seems to find many tubes on ebay (and its no as cheap as other people says) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 where else can i get tubes for cheaper price ?

 THanks a lot guys. Cant wait to get the amp


----------



## morfic

6Zh1P-EV (check ebay for 6J1P-EV) from a russian/ukrainian/lithuanian seller, you can pick up a lot of 8-10 for the same, or 2 for like $5 with $8 shipping.

 If either are worth it over the tubes your amp came with, spec is GE5654?, is very subjective, i find differences between tube families like EF95 (like your stock tubes) vs EF92 or EF91 larger than between different tubes from the EF95 family for example.

 Keep looking for the inexpensive deals, so you can afford to try a few before finding out what you like, i can't suggest one since my HD600 should sound quite different from your K702, and it's the K701/2 owners that complain about added noise/distortion on my favorite tubes EF91 Mullards, CV4014 white box stuff.

 Enjoy you amp as is for the next ~40 hours.
 Then see what you wish what was different on the sound (if anything), then ask if someone can suggest a tube that is heftier on the low end, has more extension on high end, better mids, more depth, then you can probably get some pretty good ideas on what tube to try next, even if we don't all own K702, we probably know which tube is which way different from the other.


----------



## morfic

(408a, 5654*, 5591, CV4010, CV5216, CV8246, 6069, CV10442, EF95*, M8100, 6AK5*, CV10100, CV8159, CV8225, CV850, 6J1, EF92, 6CQ6, CV4015, CV2023, V884, VP6, M8161, CV131, 9D6, W77, 6h30*, 6zh1*, 6h6*, EF91, CV4014, 6AM6) -wireless

 This is a slightly modified version of the search string burried somewhere in this thread.

 Just added a few there i saw missing right now.


----------



## bbird1927

Thanks morfic.
 Is 6J1P-EV same as 6Zh1P-EV ?


----------



## morfic

Absolutely the same.
 I got some from '71 to '84 and they all sound the same....great.
 Some of the vertical ridges in the glass, some don't, the sound of them is always the same.
 And i did buy the first two from yen1233, there was no point in doing this, which then i wasn't sure about, now many tubes later, i know those prices are ridiculous.

 Using the above search there are even some tung sol on one of the 5 pages.


----------



## LarsP

I just purchased my first couple of tubes. Can't wait to try out some tuberolling on my MKIII. I purchased the Russians and a pair of Sylvania Gold Brands.


----------



## lescanard

I've finished the 127 pages of this thread...my God! What a great read and a ton of ideas along the way I must say - thanks to everyone. So - as I read I of course was buying and starting to roll some tubes a bit as well. I first bought the Russians from Yen and what a huge improvement from the stock GEs - especially with my k701s. I can't say I loved them with the Grados - and started getting a little worried as I simply could not stop listening to the k701s once I started with them. I really love the Grado sound and they made my 325is' seem a little too bright for me (and I don't consider them a bright or harsh phone like others do). I followed that up with the Mullard 8161s and again, what a difference. The 8161s really mated beautifully with my Grados. They sound nice with the k701s but don't seem to have quite enough power if that makes sense. I actually need to crank the pot up to about 3 o'clock to get sufficient volume out of the k701s (and I'm good at about 12-1 o'clock when the Russians are in). Does that make sense and is there some type of load difference between different tubes (or perhaps EF95s vs EF92s)? 

 All in all I'm quite happy - and can say I have a preferred tube for each of my phones which is a nice option to have. I have 4 Mullard 8100s that I found online at less than $10 each (shipped) on the way so we'll see but I'm very happy right now. 

 Lastly - like many of you I ordered 4 (what I thought were GE 5-Stars) from Antique Electronic Supply. Once I read that was not what people were getting I simply crossed my fingers and hoped I got some good (same brand) tubes. Ended up getting 4 RCA 5654s so they were all the same brand at least. Not horrible for about $20.

 What a great amp this is and a lot of fun!


----------



## bbird1927

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've finished the 127 pages of this thread...my God! What a great read and a ton of ideas along the way I must say - thanks to everyone. So - as I read I of course was buying and starting to roll some tubes a bit as well. I first bought the Russians from Yen and what a huge improvement from the stock GEs - especially with my k701s. I can't say I loved them with the Grados - and started getting a little worried as I simply could not stop listening to the k701s once I started with them. I really love the Grado sound and they made my 325is' seem a little too bright for me (and I don't consider them a bright or harsh phone like others do). I followed that up with the Mullard 8161s and again, what a difference. The 8161s really mated beautifully with my Grados. They sound nice with the k701s but don't seem to have quite enough power if that makes sense. I actually need to crank the pot up to about 3 o'clock to get sufficient volume out of the k701s (and I'm good at about 12-1 o'clock when the Russians are in). Does that make sense and is there some type of load difference between different tubes (or perhaps EF95s vs EF92s)? 

 All in all I'm quite happy - and can say I have a preferred tube for each of my phones which is a nice option to have. I have 4 Mullard 8100s that I found online at less than $10 each (shipped) on the way so we'll see but I'm very happy right now. .........


 What a great amp this is and a lot of fun!_

 


 Have the same headphones as you
 Good to hear that. Waiting for my MK III
 Will try those tube for sure


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is there some type of load difference between different tubes (or perhaps EF95s vs EF92s)? _

 

I'm not too sure on the exact load difference, but I believe that EF92 draws a higher current than EF95s do. What I've found in rolling tubes so far is that the EF92/EF91's sound MUCH better in my LD than a couple EF95s (the Russian 6Z tubes and Mullard 8100): the soundstage is much clearer and wide, and the sound is now out from between my ears and has become much more laid back - it really opened up the potential of my unit! I recently found what I've decided are my holy grail in rolling tubes in first my LD II++ and now my LD MK IV SE: Amperex 6CQ6 EF92 NOS tubes. I bought a large batch of them after my excitement over how superior they've been to everything else I've rolled in the past 3 years and how impossible they are to find, I think I went a little overboard though, haha! I'm thinking about putting some of them up on here now... As far as I've seen, Penchum and I are the only ones who have pairs of these tubes. Does anyone else have them?


----------



## Max F

I have some Amperex EF91s which are good tubes. I like my Brimars little bit better though. Do the Amperex EF92s light up bright like the EF91s?

 One thing I've noticed about the EF91 and EF92 tubes is that i've never heard a bad one. They're all British made so that may have something to do with it. 

 There are some bad sounding EF95 tubes for sure, but there are some really good ones too. My favorite are the 1950s Raytheon's 6AK5W. They just have just about everything right for me and my HD650s. 

 Your right though, the EF91 and EF92s tend to have a larger soundstage.


----------



## morfic

Sorry, got to chime in, while i have no Amperex tubes at all, i agree on increased "depth" of both my (Mullard) EF92 tubes and my (Mullard) CV4014/EF91 (light up when you turn them on, lately i find them to be almost white when doing so)
 I prefer my EF91 over the EF92, they seem to have a nicer, more intense low end, with nicer vocals, compared to small shield or large shield EF92 Mullards, which have clearer vocals than most EF95 tubes.

 But of all the tubes i have, i only have one pair of Raytheon 6AK5 from i guess week (51 of 1981), and they seem overall the most fun tubes of all the EF95s, if i could get them for the same price as the 6Zh1P-EV, i would certainly stockpile (i have 24 6Zh1P-EV....just in case).
 At the price, i prefer "The Russians", which are still a huge improvement over the stock tubes.


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have some Amperex EF91s which are good tubes. I like my Brimars little bit better though. Do the Amperex EF92s light up bright like the EF91s?_

 

Max, my Amperex EF92s don't light up bright, they have a mellow and dim power-on. Wow, after hearing how great my Amperex EF92s have been, I really want to hear the Brimars or the Amperex EF91! Would you consider a trade of one pair for one of my EF92? I've been dying to try a good Brimar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, got to chime in, while i have no Amperex tubes at all, i agree on increased "depth" of both my (Mullard) EF92 tubes and my (Mullard) CV4014/EF91 (light up when you turn them on, lately i find them to be almost white when doing so)
 I prefer my EF91 over the EF92, they seem to have a nicer, more intense low end, with nicer vocals, compared to small shield or large shield EF92 Mullards, which have clearer vocals than most EF95 tubes._

 

Morfic, don't apologize for chiming in, this is what the forum exists for, right? LOL, I actually just received my Mullard EF91s (with the blue glass around the middle), but after I fell in love with the Amperex EF92, I haven't been able to tear myself from them and even try the Mullards, let alone let them burn in to compare them!! I should probably do that.


----------



## Max F

The Brimar tubes that have come up on e-bay have been pretty cheap. Keep an eye out for them. The Raytheons 6ak5w are pretty cheap too when they come up. Cheap, meaning around 3 bucks a tube. You just have to be patient. 

 To be honest there's isn't a huge difference in my EF-91 tubes. I have a pair of Amperex, Mullard and Brimar, but I do like the Brimar the best with my HD-650s.

 I would like to try some Amperex EF92s, but I think my tube buying days are over. I have enough tubes to last me through my lifetime and then some, lol!


----------



## BombayTheIndian

I know I shouldn't have, but I found a pair of NOS Brimar EF91s today for $4/each! Max, it's because of your take on them that got me interested. Alright, so NOW I should be done buying tubes for quite some time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you want to swap some Amperex EF91 for a pair of my EF92 (at no cost to either of us aside from shipping), let me know! I'd certainly like to give those a shot, too.


----------



## Max F

Unfortunately, I only have one pair of Amperex EF91. I don't want to part with them mainly cause they are so cool when they light up!

 The Brimars are pretty neat too with their silver glass. I like how they look.


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Shucks.... Oh well, I GUESS I'll have to settle with my other amazing tubes right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I finally built the nerve to take my Amperex EF92 out and put in the Mullard EF91 w/ blue glass - those things lit up like a star when I turned them on, fun! Time to get those burned in before the Brimar EF91 get here, then it'll be time to compare all 3. Fun personal testing time within the next week or two!


----------



## Trance_Gott

Has somebody tested a EF96 tube? Work this type with MKIII?


----------



## ScottieB

Hmmm.... what are THESE all about?? Seems to defeat the purpose of tubes, but anyone have any info?

2 FETICON Solid State PENTODE 5654 6AK5 EL95 Radio Tube - eBay (item 160356252003 end time Aug-26-09 11:13:30 PDT)

 WHOA! Something else weird - did anyone notice Yen disappearing? His prices were high but shipping and product were always good... but then it seemed like he started becoming a bad seller (lots of negatives over the last few weeks) and is no longer a registered ebay seller. Wonder what happened?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The recession claimed yet another small business ScottieB. At least that's what I think happened. It's too bad because Yen was a good source of tested NOS tubes. There are others of course but Yen will be missed (the responsible,solvent Yen).

 Peete.


----------



## morfic

If Scottie is right about the lack of a registered user by his name, then it wouldn't be a recession victim, noone gives up their username unless forced to.

 i guess legally milking head-fiers who flock to his overpriced deals like sheep was not enough in the end.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...ab=AllFeedback


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If Scottie is right about the lack of a registered user by his name, then it wouldn't be a recession victim, noone gives up their username unless forced to.

 i guess legally milking head-fiers who flock to his overpriced deals like sheep was not enough in the end.

eBay Feedback Profile for yen1233_

 







....good luck with that angle pal....

 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Hmmm could be the recession I guess, but it seems weird to keep listing items and then not responding.

 He had 39 negatives over the past year - 33 of them came in the last 5 weeks or so! 

 Nothin' on those "solid state" 5654s?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

They look pretty cool for the price Scottie...who knows for sure how they might perform, they might be a really good tweak for all we know. I do know the Weber "copper cap" SS rectifier modules do a fine job...if that helps any ..

 Well the recession started last year but who knows for sure what happened to Yen......

 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

It does, Peete, mostly because I never knew they existed, heh... may be fun to try out, eh?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yep the price is right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## kres

Hi everybody

 I'm sorry, but I do not have the strength to read the 100 pages 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and make a synthesis for my own need, so I prefer to ask directly my question :

 I have a AKG K-701, plugged into a Little dot mkIII with the original tubes.

 I love my K-701, especially in the mid-range, but I would like to have some more bass (i find to my ears, that they are not so loud), but without loosing any details in the mid range.

 For those you experienced the same combination, are there simple solutions (I mean remplacing the tubes without doing any modifications on the amplifier) to get a better result ? and if yes, do you have any internet link to buy the good tubes ?

 Thanks a lot !


----------



## koven

hello, without reading all 129 pages.. could someone tell me what the consensus is for the best tubes for ld mkiii?

 i just got a mk3 w/ stock tubes.. looking to upgrade them

http://cgi.ebay.com/One-NOS-NIB-M810...3286.m20.l1116

 any thoughts on this one? thinking about buying a pair... but what else would i need?


----------



## koven

double post


----------



## bigdirty

read the thread imo, lots of reviews and impressions of tubes in there. that being said im partial to the ef91 family


----------



## Project22a

do 6ak5 tubes require the jumpers? (This is on an MKII, not an MKIII, if that makes any difference)

 EDIT: Also, are 6AK5 and 6AK5W pretty much the same thing?

 EDIT AGAIN: Nevermind, search is my friend


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigdirty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_read the thread imo, lots of reviews and impressions of tubes in there. that being said im partial to the ef91 family_

 

+1

 But i also got to love the JTL-6AK5W Tung-Sols lately.


----------



## ScottieB

So I got those Solid State "tubes"... haven't listened too much so it's hard to draw any conclusions but... they work! Super old packaging with really old instructions inside was actually very cool! This is NOS if I've ever seen it! Still sealed (barely!) packages.

 They sound good. I don't have golden ears or anything but they (so far) seem to lend a more solid state sound to my tube amp - a bit more detail and less of the tube warm fuzzy... seems like a good amount of punch and PRAT though. I need more time to listen critically and compare, but so far these are a pretty nice find.

 So... what's the word on burn-in for a "solid state tube"?


----------



## userlander

I just picked up one of these, too. Is it safe to say the stock tubes aren't too bad while you're researching upgrades? There's a lot here to sift through!


----------



## sonda2008

Hi guys,

 Anyone tried those Sovtek 6H30 tubes?

Sovtek 6H30 tube for Audio Research Conrad Johnson BAT - eBay (item 350245684485 end time Oct-27-09 09:20:56 PDT)

 Are they any upgrade to stock tubes?

 Thanks,
 Sonda2008


----------



## MKHTTJ

Hey, so I recently purchased a new MKIII which is on its way here from China

 This is my first tube amp so I'm pretty excited and want to get some premium tubes to have for its arrival.

 I'm going to be pairing it with my grado RS-1's. What are some of the best tubes you guys have used, and more specifically, what are some of the best ones to use with grados?

 From what i read in the thread it sounds like Tung-Sol and Mullards seem to be the best in general but I want to know your guys experience with grados.


----------



## 2162

How do you actually 'roll tubes' do you need to adjust the bias before putting them in?


----------



## sonda2008

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *2162* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you actually 'roll tubes' do you need to adjust the bias before putting them in?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DavidZheZhe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Yes, all of our tube amplifiers are auto-bias so changing tubes is as simple as plug-and-play. I hope this helps!_

 


Viewing a thread - Tube change


----------



## BauhausBold

I have some nos sylvania gold pins w/black plates, if anyone is interested.


----------



## erikzen

Those are supposed to be some nice tubes. I never got to try them. Unfortunately, I recently sold my LD MKIII to fund a new source purchase.


----------



## erikzen

Those are supposed to be some nice tubes. I never got to try them. Unfortunately, I recently sold my LD MKIII to fund a new source purchase.


----------



## nilskoller

Hi there,

 just wanted to let you know that my LD MKIII will arrive in early next week (I can hardly wait!).

 However I already bought a few tubes, to have something to play around...

 I just bought 3 matched pairs for now:
 Mullard 10M Master Series EF95
 1940's Tung-Sol EF95
 1940's Raytheon EF95

 Maybe I made a mistake to waste my money, even on the expensive Mullard Master Series but anyway I like their packing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Some of you may wonder why I just spend my money on EF95 only...
 First I want to get used to the default kind of tube - I will keep my option to try something totally different, later on.


----------



## Carter54

Hello i just bought an LD MK III on the FS forums and it came with 6 pairs of tubes.

 I was wondering if anyone had tried these driver tubes with HD600 and had any recommendations where to start?

 mullard ef95/cv850
 silver plate rca 6ak5
 tung sol 6ak5s
 some sylvania and rca 5654

 Also what is the recommended gain for my different headphones?

 HD600 I have been using 10 for the senns based on Penchum's review.
 ATH-A900
 Grado SR125
 Denon D1001

 Thanks Carter


----------



## nilskoller

Hi,

 no idea about any tubes, so far I'm still waiting for mine...

 Regarding gain settings, I searched the forum and contacted the seller, which seems to know fairly good any kind of headphone equipment.
 Anyway, he advised me to try a gain setting, where the volumne knob is in the middle (12 clock) for my normal listening position.
 According to him, this is the poti's sweet spot and gives best sound.

 For my K701 gain 4 does it pretty well. However I noticed the sound to be more tubelike when rising the knob to 2 or 3 clock...


----------



## lescanard

I've been on a bit of a tube buying spree - had previously picked up the Mullard EF92s - and at first found them a little under-powered (particularly for my k701s) - but after some burn in they seemed to open up nicely. I find that they really take the edge off of any brightness - sound very good and I am particularly fond of them with the Grado 325is'. Anyway - this led me to the EF91s - I bought and received a pair on eBay - these were listed as Mullard/CV4014/EF91/6AM6 - there is no shield on them. I have been listening to them and quite frankly can say these are my favorites right now - what a spectacular beautiful sound - they make the k701s absolutely sing - tremendous acoustics, voices and guitars are right on and it delivers a really nice bass.

 So....I then won an eBay action the other day for (5) Mullard EF91s and am waiting for them. The picture shows a shield, EF91 printed on it and they are blue in the middle. Can anyone tell me if these are these same, similar or different from the CV4014s I mentioned above? Thanks.


----------



## islanddancer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been on a bit of a tube buying spree - had previously picked up the Mullard EF92s - and at first found them a little under-powered (particularly for my k701s) - but after some burn in they seemed to open up nicely. I find that they really take the edge off of any brightness - sound very good and I am particularly fond of them with the Grado 325is'. Anyway - this led me to the EF91s - I bought and received a pair on eBay - these were listed as Mullard/CV4014/EF91/6AM6 - there is no shield on them. I have been listening to them and quite frankly can say these are my favorites right now - what a spectacular beautiful sound - they make the k701s absolutely sing - tremendous acoustics, voices and guitars are right on and it delivers a really nice bass.

 So....I then won an eBay action the other day for (5) Mullard EF91s and am waiting for them. The picture shows a shield, EF91 printed on it and they are blue in the middle. Can anyone tell me if these are these same, similar or different from the CV4014s I mentioned above? Thanks._

 

the tubes without shield on them seem to me to be newer version? maybe produced in the 80s? the old ones will have "large shield" on them I think,


----------



## islanddancer

could any fellows tell more about the difference about m8161(ef92) and m8083(ef91), I have ld mk3 to drive hd650, I am torn which pair to buy.
 I already have WE 403b and want to have a different experience.

 is there a list of must listen tubes for little dot mk3?


----------



## Max F

For the HD650, get the m8161 (EF92) tubes. They are a must have tube.


----------



## bigdirty

I've got some WE 403b, for a vastly different sound try some Brimar EF91. Soundstage like whoa


----------



## lescanard

I've decided it's time to stop buying tubes on eBay which I am sure many f you have said to themselves at one time or another. Some quick impressions and a question or 2 for fellow MKIII owners:

 I've found the EF95s to be lacking a bit the past several months as I have branched out. The best of the bunch still seem to be the Russians, although just found a pair of GE 5-Stars on eBay and am listening to them right now and I like them. I'm not enamored with the Raytheons, like the Mullard 8100s and found some cheap RCA 5654s which are very, very good IMO.

 The EF92s and EF91s shine and I would love to try more. The Mullard 8083s are the best sounding pair with my Grados by far. They just warm them up beautifully and really give some extra depth in the bass with these notoriously Brighter sounding cans. The Mullard CV4014 (91s) and Mullard EF91s with Blue middles are simply amazing with the k701s - incredible soundstage, depth and an overall sonic treat - probably my #1 and #1a by a mile overall. Summary of favorites/must haves - Grados - Voshod CZH1P-EV's, 8083s... k701s - CV4014s, Mullard EF91s. In my collection and still to try - GE Jan 5654, GE Jan 5654W.

 1 - does anyone have any opinions on the above mentioned with either Grados 325is' or k701s (or any must haves I may be missing with these phones)?
 2 - Re: the Mullard EF91s - My question is what is the difference in these tubes - the one pair was bought from an eBayer - listed as Mullard EF91s without a shield and has on the box CV4014 and KQDD/K, the other, I bought 5 from a guy in Great Britain and they are listed as Mullard EF91s - have a shield (and EF91 stamped on) and are blue in the middle. I absolutely love both and wondered if anyone knew the similarities or differences of these tubes.

 Thanks everyone!


----------



## alex98uk

Where did you get the Mullard 8303's? I can't find them on eBay!

 Any advice on what to look for in order for a crisper high end sound. I have some Sony XB700 headphones, so I have the bass, but I sometimes feel the upper range is missing.


----------



## lescanard

Sorry - it was a mis-type - meant 8083s...Got them here:

2 NOS Mullard CV4014 / EF91 / 6AM6 Vacuum Tubes NIB - eBay (item 150387024241 end time Dec-07-09 10:47:52 PST)


----------



## kres

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry - it was a mis-type - meant 8083s...Got them here:

2 NOS Mullard CV4014 / EF91 / 6AM6 Vacuum Tubes NIB - eBay (item 150387024241 end time Dec-07-09 10:47:52 PST)_

 


 Hi everybody

 I am looking for tubes to replace my stock tubes on my LDIII.
 With my K701, I find the stock tubes very poor in bass.

 If I take the tubes on ebay, at this URL, will the sound be improved, especially on bass extension and depth ? Will the bass be also tight ?

 Thanks a lot.

 Otherwise, I think I will look for a Heed Canamp, which rseems to be the best option for driving a k701, thought difficult to find (at least in second hand market).

 Kres


----------



## internethandle

Noobie question:

 Just got my Little Dot MK III today from a fellow head-fier, and he included two extra tubes. However, they are not matched. One is an RCA 5654 that has no other identifications on it except "RCA" "5654" and the number "7722." The other tube is an RCA Command 5654. Does this mean they are not matched?

 I had read up that most amps will allow you to put in an unmatched pair, so I went ahead and plugged them into the amp, and they work fine. I get the impression though that the RCA Command Series 5654 should be superior over (what others seem to have dubbed) the "plain Jane" RCA 5654. I also have read that the risk of plugging in an unmatched pair is that you're going to different SQ for each channel, which would be more pronounced or less depending on how mismatched they are.

 Would appreciate some clarification.


----------



## erikzen

Personally, I think getting matched pairs for the LD MKIII is overrated. I bought a lot of tubes when I had the amp. At first I paid top dollar from from known sellers for vintage, NOS, matched pairs. But $30 to $60 for a pair of tubes seemed a bit steep to me.

 Then I started hunting around eBay for better deals, with the idea of not paying more than $10 per tube. I was able to find a bunch. Sometimes the seller would say they were matched and other times not. I found that sometimes when they said they were matched they were obviously not, like in your example above.

 I must have had at least a half dozen pairs of unmatched tubes and never did I find a channel imbalance or any degradation in sound. As it turned out my favorite pair of tubes were matched, NOS, from a reputable seller but I think that just had to do with the tubes and not so much because they were matched.

 I also liked the Western Electric 403B. I got a bunch of them pretty cheaply and none of them were matched, but they sounded wonderful in the amp.

 Of course maybe my ears aren't good enough or my source wasn't revealing enough but to my ears, spending a lot of money for matched pairs with the Little Dot is not necessary. I'm sure there are mismatches that are so bad, the difference is obvious but I've never come across the issue.


----------



## internethandle

Thanks for the advice. If there's any difference in SQ between the two channels because I'm using unmatched tubes, I haven't been able to tell so far. They certainly sound like a bit of an improvement over the stock driver tubes.


----------



## sinisterm

Long time no see, so hello to everyone.

 Was out of headphones business for almost a year but now the bug bite me again, and of course it's time to tube roll aswell.

 Anyone heard of "France RTC 5654 6AK5 CV4010 EF95"? There's 8 on Ebay for 8USD per piece. I guess I'll take the dive.

 How's the "scene" anyway nowdays? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Any new excellent brand/model tubes found?


----------



## EluamousNailo

After reading almost all of this thread, I have nearly a full page of possible tubes to test eventually, but are these 3 tubes good starting tubes?

 Mullard M8161
 Tung-Sol 6AK5 Black Plate
 Amperex 5654


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EluamousNailo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After reading almost all of this thread, I have nearly a full page of possible tubes to test eventually, but are these 3 tubes good starting tubes?

 Mullard M8161
 Tung-Sol 6AK5 Black Plate
 Amperex 5654_

 

Haven't heard the Amperex's, but the Mullard's and Tung-Sol's are very nice tubes indeed. You can't really go wrong with choosing those.

 But I'd suggest you to consider Voshod 6J1P-EV russian tubes (10USD for 10 pieces). They are bloody cheap, and sound very good.


----------



## kres

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kres* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everybody

 I am looking for tubes to replace my stock tubes on my LDIII.
 With my K701, I find the stock tubes very poor in bass.

 If I take the tubes on ebay, at this URL, will the sound be improved, especially on bass extension and depth ? Will the bass be also tight ?

 Thanks a lot.

 Otherwise, I think I will look for a Heed Canamp, which rseems to be the best option for driving a k701, thought difficult to find (at least in second hand market).

 Kres_

 


 Finally I have ordered these Mullard tubes on ebay.

 Do I have to switch anything on the little dot mk III, or I just have to replace the stock tubes by the new ones without any modifications ?

 Thanks


----------



## Lantis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kres* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally I have ordered these Mullard tubes on ebay.

 Do I have to switch anything on the little dot mk III, or I just have to replace the stock tubes by the new ones without any modifications ?

 Thanks_

 

From the MK III manual:

  Code:


```
[left]Little Dot MK III Jumpers for Driver Tube-Rolling The Little Dot MK III has three jumpers that allow two different types of driver tubes. You can access the jumpers through the amplifier’s bottom panel, and they are located to the sides of the pair of capacitors closest to the front of the amplifier. Please power off the amplifier, and unplug it for at least 10 minutes before attempting to change the switch settings. [color=Red][b]If the jumpers covering pins 1 and 2, the following EF95 type driver tubes may be used:[/b][/color] [list=1][*][b]WE403A[/b] [*][b]5654[/b], CK5654, GL5654, 5591, [b]CV4010[/b], CV5216, CV8246, 6069, CV10442 [*][b]EF95[/b], [b]M8100[/b], 6AK5W, CV10100, CV8159, CV8225, CV850 [*][b]6J1[/b] [/list]
[b] [color=Red]If jumpers are covering pins 2 and 3 (EF92 side) the following EF92 type driver tubes may be used:[/color][/b] [list=1][*][b]EF92[/b], [b]6CQ6[/b], CV2023, V884, VP6, [b]M8161[/b] [*][b]EF91[/b], 6AM6, CV10327, [b]CV138[/b], CV1955, CV2195, Z77 [*][b]CV131[/b], 9D6, W77 [/list]
 Any other equivalents or drop-in replacements for the above-mentioned tubes (both sets) may also be used. [b]Important Note:[/b] While all of the above tubes should technically be equivalent or similar, only the tubes in bold have officially been tested to be compatible.[/left]
```


----------



## kres

Many thanks !


----------



## lescanard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kres* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everybody

 I am looking for tubes to replace my stock tubes on my LDIII.
 With my K701, I find the stock tubes very poor in bass.

 If I take the tubes on ebay, at this URL, will the sound be improved, especially on bass extension and depth ? Will the bass be also tight ?

 Thanks a lot.

 Otherwise, I think I will look for a Heed Canamp, which rseems to be the best option for driving a k701, thought difficult to find (at least in second hand market).

 Kres_

 

Got these as well as I posted earlier and will tell you they made a huge improvement to my k701s. Very noticeable and without a doubt my current favorites (along with some Mullard EF91s with blue glass I recently won on eBay). If your source is good I cannot imagine you won't love them.

 The bass to my ears is absolutely perfect (although I have always felt the k701s deliver great bass as opposed to others). Still very tight - and IMO improved significantly (especially from the EF95 family I think).


----------



## Denys

HI,

 Should we choose the tubes according to the headphones we own? If yes, would someone be kind enough to let me know which tubes I should consider with Grado 325i for the LDIII please. Presently I have the stock tubes.

 Thanks in advance
 Denys


----------



## lescanard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HI,

 Should we choose the tubes according to the headphones we own? If yes, would someone be kind enough to let me know which tubes I should consider with Grado 325i for the LDIII please. Presently I have the stock tubes.

 Thanks in advance
 Denys_

 

M8161s are by far my favorite with the 325i.


----------



## internethandle

Decided to go cheap for my first purchase and jumped on an auction for some Raytheon 6AK5's (4 of them) for 9 bucks shipped. They appear to be used, but the seller ("3d_electrical) seems reputable. Anyone tried these tubes with the MKIII? Seems like there's been more discussion about the Raytheon 6AK5W's then the 6AK5's. Here's the description from the auction:

  Quote:


 A matched set of 4 amplifier tubes type 6AK5. 

 The tubes are used pulls, Raytheon brand, and are marked JRP-6AK5.

 Tubes test good on a Heath IT-17 tube tester. These tubes have well matched emissions.

 Have a look at my other listings for more tubes like these!

 Payment: Pay-Pal is preferred. I will accept a check from USA. Please make payment within 5 business days.

 Shipping & handling: cost listed is my best estimate to ship via USPS parcel post from 08822 to continental US.

 If you are elsewhere, or prefer other shipping arrangements, please contact me. Shipping can often be combined for multiple purchases.

 No charge for packing with care! I will ship within 3 business days after receipt of payment.


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_M8161s are by far my favorite with the 325i._

 

Thank you Sir

 Denys


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *internethandle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Decided to go cheap for my first purchase and jumped on an auction for some Raytheon 6AK5's (4 of them) for 9 bucks shipped._

 

I think you'll like what you hear. The difference is that the W indicates military grade. I don't know enough about tubes to know if there is a major difference, but I have to believe they are very similar. I would think the year they were made would be important, not that I'd be any help in figuring out date codes.

 I had a matched pair of 1952 Raytheon 6AK5W. They had black plates, D getters, with an Navy anchor symbol on it. It was a great looking tube and it was my favorite in terms of sound, as well. They got the most use out of all of my tubes and I had a bunch. (Granted I had a few "odds and ends", but still, I had some nice tubes.) 

 To me, they were not overly "tubey" sounding. Very smooth, but detailed, with less of a soundstage than some other tubes, more of a tube hybrid sound.


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erikzen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*SNIP* The difference is that the W indicates military grade. *SNIP*_

 

EDIT:

 "6AK5, 6AK5W (better quality), 5654 (add W and SQ for better quality types)"

 So I'd guess they last longer and should sound better, but not 100% sure of this.


----------



## Lantis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT:

 "6AK5, 6AK5W (better quality), 5654 (add W and SQ for better quality types)"

 So I'd guess they last longer and should sound better, but not 100% sure of this._

 

From what I've read the military grade tubes are less susceptible to interference


----------



## Max F

I like the Raytheons. The 6ak5w are some of my favorites. I'm not sure if the 6ak5 are that much different - probably not. With my HD650s they have nice tight deep bass with good low midrange impact and nice highs, but not bright. 

 Some general observations at least with my HD650s:

 EF95 tubes have less soundstage but strong tight bass and more in your face sound. This is good for rock and jazz.

 EF92 tubes have more soundstage than the EF95 tubes. Bass is good but can get a little loose. Nice warm sound, maybe even tubey! Good for all music (except maybe thrash or metal).

 EF91 are way out soundstage (maybe too much). Bass can be weaker with less impact. Cool for acoustic music.

 Whatever tubes are you favorite now may change in the future or even what mood you are in! I recommend rolling tubes every so often just for fun. That's what is really cool about owning an amp like this.


----------



## internethandle

Thanks, Max. Any favorite EF92 tubes?


----------



## lescanard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Max F* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like the Raytheons. The 6ak5w are some of my favorites. I'm not sure if the 6ak5 are that much different - probably not. With my HD650s they have nice tight deep bass with good low midrange impact and nice highs, but not bright. 

 Some general observations at least with my HD650s:

 EF95 tubes have less soundstage but strong tight bass and more in your face sound. This is good for rock and jazz.

 EF92 tubes have more soundstage than the EF95 tubes. Bass is good but can get a little loose. Nice warm sound, maybe even tubey! Good for all music (except maybe thrash or metal).

 EF91 are way out soundstage (maybe too much). Bass can be weaker with less impact. Cool for acoustic music.

 Whatever tubes are you favorite now may change in the future or even what mood you are in! I recommend rolling tubes every so often just for fun. That's what is really cool about owning an amp like this._

 

Absolutely right. It seems my tastes in tubes change and it's great to get a different sound from time to time.

 Question for anyone who cares to answer...I just started to experiment with this as a pre-amp a bit with my speaker system - any opinions or thoughts as to how effective (or noticeable) people find this with existing stereo systems. When I do it - I run my music from Macbook to an Airport Express--->Optical to ibasso d10 dac--->LD MKIII--->Denon Receiver--->speakers. Anyone using it as a pre-amp - what do you think and do you hear a significant improvement in your SQ?


----------



## internethandle

Just bought some NOS GE 5 Stars from a Head-Fi'er. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Having a bit of trouble parsing out of this thread the importance (or lack of importance) of power tube rolling in the MK III. It seems like the consensus is that it's not really necessary when compared to what driver tubes you're using, but other power tubes do provide a slightly different sound and are a nice curiousity. The only exception, my impression has been, is with the "bullplug" mod and branching out to even greater varieties of power tubes in terms of enthusiasm re: the LD MKIII and power tube rolling. Is this correct, or are there some power tubes I should look for? Was thinking of grabbing some 6N6P tubes on eBay, since they're all fairly cheap and plentiful, but how much of a difference they would make isn't very clear to me.


----------



## bigdirty

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Absolutely right. It seems my tastes in tubes change and it's great to get a different sound from time to time.

 Question for anyone who cares to answer...I just started to experiment with this as a pre-amp a bit with my speaker system - any opinions or thoughts as to how effective (or noticeable) people find this with existing stereo systems. When I do it - I run my music from Macbook to an Airport Express--->Optical to ibasso d10 dac--->LD MKIII--->Denon Receiver--->speakers. Anyone using it as a pre-amp - what do you think and do you hear a significant improvement in your SQ?_

 

I use it as a preamp. improvement in SQ?!?! different sound with every set of drivers yes, improved i couldnt say.


----------



## erikzen

Re: power tubes. I tried some of the Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi tubes. I would say it gave the amp more gain, adding weight to the sound if that makes any sense. It just sounded more authoritative. Despite the fact that the amp supposedly has been revised to allow the use of these tubes I found the amp ran very hot with them in and I was afraid to use them for more than 2 or 3 hours at a time. I thought it improved the sound but I didn't want to damage the amp. Ultimately I took them out.


----------



## kres

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got these as well as I posted earlier and will tell you they made a huge improvement to my k701s. Very noticeable and without a doubt my current favorites (along with some Mullard EF91s with blue glass I recently won on eBay). If your source is good I cannot imagine you won't love them.

 The bass to my ears is absolutely perfect (although I have always felt the k701s deliver great bass as opposed to others). Still very tight - and IMO improved significantly (especially from the EF95 family I think)._

 

Hi and thanks
 I ll tell you when i get them if i find the bass more extended or not.

 Otherwise to answer to your latest question i tried to use the LD as a pre amplifier but i was not convinced at all by the change. Acutally it sounded worse than with my pre amp


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Absolutely right. It seems my tastes in tubes change and it's great to get a different sound from time to time.

 Question for anyone who cares to answer...I just started to experiment with this as a pre-amp a bit with my speaker system - any opinions or thoughts as to how effective (or noticeable) people find this with existing stereo systems. When I do it - I run my music from Macbook to an Airport Express--->Optical to ibasso d10 dac--->LD MKIII--->Denon Receiver--->speakers. Anyone using it as a pre-amp - what do you think and do you hear a significant improvement in your SQ?_

 

Hey there!

 I use it as a preamp for my (not so great) desktop monitors (Edirol MA15) and I find it makes a nice improvement. Definitely adds that "tubey" sound and fills out bass considerably. generally speaking just more "oomph" to what are admittedly not great speakers to begin with. 

 As to the tube discussions of late - I've found the GE 5-Stars to be my current favorite "all-arounder" - but I especially like them with my Grado (325is). I agree that the 91/92 tubes really shine with headphones like the sennheisers and music like classical - music that likes a lot of soundstage. 

 I've yet to do any power tube rolling, mostly due to the high price of the upgrade tubes, and the fact that with my low-impedence Grados they may not last very long. (After less than a year of not so heavy use the stock power tubes died on me. According to David that was not surprising because a low-impedance can would be a bigger load for the OTL tube amp.) So even though I've added an impedance adapter, I'm still wary of spending the money for something so iffy... have the prices on those 6H30pi tubes come down at all? Last I checked they were like $65 a pair...


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ihave the prices on those 6H30pi tubes come down at all? Last I checked they were like $65 a pair..._

 

I think it's come down a little but still about $20 a tube. I bought mine used and still paid $50 for the pair.


----------



## CQ DX

Hi everyone. I've been enjoying my new MKIII for a few weeks now (both as a head amp and preamp), and have about 60 to 80 hours on the stock driver tubes. They sounded real good right out of the box, but now sound even better as they are breaking in. In fact, I am 'blown away' at the level of detail and other positive sonic attributes of my stock tubes! I am hearing things i've never heard before in my CD collection. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The amp came with RAYTHEON JRP5654 6AK5 driver tubes. Does anyone else really like the sound of their stock tubes? Just curious.

 I do want to tube roll, and want to start out by purchasing just one pair of extra matched tubes for now that would work with my MKIII in it's current default switch position. I am, however, a bit confused. I know that most tubes are NOS, manufactured many years or decades ago. Are these old tubes really new and un-used? Or are most of them used? Also, are there any driver tubes for the MKIII that are currently being manufactured in 2009? Can you recommend specific tubes to get as my first (and probably not last) tube rolling?

 Thanks in advance for your help and time.

 George


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CQ DX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The amp came with RAYTHEON JRP5654 6AK5 driver tubes. Does anyone else really like the sound of their stock tubes? Just curious.

 I know that most tubes are NOS, manufactured many years or decades ago. Are these old tubes really new and un-used? Or are most of them used? Also, are there any driver tubes for the MKIII that are currently being manufactured in 2009? Can you recommend specific tubes to get as my first (and probably not last) tube rolling?_

 

My amp came with GE 5654's which were fine, but nothing special.

 About being unused you can't really be 100% certain. The seller can say what he wants about it so you kinda just have to trust what he says. Good reputation sellers generally sell what they say, but since the tubes are 50+ years old I guess no one really knows where they've been. Nothing to worry about though, if the seller says he tested them and they tested good, it's enough for me.

 Especially really cheap tubes stated matched etc. I wouldn't count on it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Neither would I worry about matching tubes or not, have only bought one pair of matched tubes(almost hunded tubes in all, phew made me shiver when I counted it), and have had no problems with any tubes.

 I don't know of any 200x production line of driver tubes. But as far as I know NOS tubes are generally considered to have better sound quality. 

 There's that power tube from 200x year at least, Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi. 

 I'd suggest you to try M8161 Mullards (EF92) or Tung-Sol 6AK5W (EF95) or Russian 6ZH1P-EV (same thing as 
 6J1P-EV) (EF95) from the cheaper end tubes. 

 M8161's are known of their musicality(is that even a word? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and smoothness in mids, with nice bass and liquid highs.

 Especially the russian's are really cheap and have a very nice sound. Just make sure they are made in Voshod plant. Great for rock/metal.

 Tung-Sol's might be a bit more expensive but they give really nice detail and highs, with nice bass too. I really loved them with Grado 325i's. Though with GS-1000 the highs were too bright and sibilance was too great.

 In the more expensive end Western Electric 403b should be a great tube, haven't heard it myself but what I've read about it here, makes me want to buy a pair or two as soon as I find them somewhere. Anyone have spare 403b's here willing to sell? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At the moment I'm using Siemens 6AK5W tubes with GS-1000, which I find pretty pleasing. They aren't as good as tubes I mentioned, but they are a bit shy in the higher end, which reduces sibilance a great deal. Good pairing with the GS-1000's.

 Just woke up so some details could be a bit off but hopefully this helps you with your decision. Welcome to the tuberollers world.


----------



## drewfus420

I have some 6AK5 EF95 6J1 CV4010 Mullard tubes on the way for my MKII, does anyone have a suggestion for a complimentary power tube for use with Grados and other low impedance cans?


----------



## bball

Read through most of the thread and have come across the M8161 Mullards (EF92) which seem like a good fit from what people have described SQ wise. I have a MKII which can take the EF92 also. I'm looking for a really tubey sounding liquid midrange tube. Right now I'm running stock tubes and looking a set of tubes in the cheaper range (no more than $20) Is the M8161 the best option? Any other recommendations?


----------



## Denys

I just bought this pair of Mullard through Ebay as suggested by Lescanard.. (the tube, not the seller)

CV4015 M8161 EF92 9D6 MULLARD QDD TUBE VALVE NOS PAIR on eBay.ca (item 270280786849 end time 22-Nov-09 06:42:27 EST)

 I will let you guys know just for the fun of it..... 

 DACMagic------Little Dot MKIII---Grado 325...

 Denys


----------



## internethandle

Enjoying these used 6AK5 Raytheon's I got today from eBay seller "3d electrical". Definitely sound a bit more "hybrid-tube"-y, which I'm enjoying, honestly - a neutral-ish sound. Seem a little louder/more gain-y somehow, despite just being driver tubes. Definitely more subdued, solid state-like bass, though, and less warmth (again, hybrid tube-like).


----------



## hipcat

Hey all just got my mkIII yesterday and am burning it in now. Ordered it off ebay and happened to get it off David zhezhe than noticed how highly he's spoken of in this forum, glad I got it from him easy fast deal! I've also read through the hole thread! whew losts of great info thanks to everyone that posted!! Burning in the stock tubes now but have ordered some tubes to play with, 2 jan 6ak5w tung-sol's,2 rca 6ak5's, 2 matched 6j1p-ev's(voskod),2 jan 5654 ge's and 2 matched 6j1p-e(novosibirsk). Any advice on what order to burn these tubes in.Also thanks to lingling1337 for making some cables for me they work great!Well back to listen to my amp looking forward to sharing and gaining info here!
 Hipcat


----------



## EluamousNailo

Ok this may be a really stupid question, but I need it answered since I haven't seen it anywhere...

 How exactly do you switch the jumpers on and off to roll different tube types? I know all of the tubes that go with jumpers off or jumpers on, I just don't know how to change them.


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EluamousNailo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok this may be a really stupid question, but I need it answered since I haven't seen it anywhere...

 How exactly do you switch the jumpers on and off to roll different tube types? I know all of the tubes that go with jumpers off or jumpers on, I just don't know how to change them._

 






 There's holes in the bottom of the amp where you can find pins (two sets, two pins in each), which you need to connect with jumpers like in that picture.

 In newer version MKIII's (if I recall correct) there are dip-switches you just need to set to other position.

 EDIT: So just to make it 100% clear: If the pins are connected the jumpers are ON and you can use EF92 etc.
 When the pins aren't connected the jumpers are OFF, and you can use EF95


----------



## alex98uk

Yes, the new LD MKIIIs just have 2 way switches on the bottom, so no need for jumpers anymore. They are also marked as to what they do, up is EF95 and down is EF92 IIRC.


----------



## bigdirty

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 In newer version MKIII's (if I recall correct) there are dip-switches you just need to set to other position._

 


 From what i have read they have had problems with the switches and have gone back the jumpers. I purchased mine around Aug/Sep. and it uses the jumpers.


----------



## lescanard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigdirty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what i have read they have had problems with the switches and have gone back the jumpers. I purchased mine around Aug/Sep. and it uses the jumpers._

 

That is true but then they went back to switches I believe. I bought mine before you and it had switches (2nd time) and they work flawlessly. Not sure if they have since again gone back to jumpers - again but am so glad to have the switches because it's very easy.


----------



## Devolve

Anyone have an idea what the best tubes for metal music would be? More specifically: Black metal, melodic death, folk types. Just have stock tubes right now.


----------



## drewfus420

I have some matched 6AK5 EF95 6J1 CV4010 Mullard driver tubes and ECC99 / E182CC / RUSSIAN 6N6P power tubes waiting for my dang MKII to show up. Has anyone tried this combo yet?


----------



## hipcat

Hey all I just got my mkIII and I've been buying some tubes for it and I have some questions. I brought 2 "military tubes" off a guy on the internet for $7 delivered and when i got them they were nos 1952 raytheon 6ak5w's.I emailed back to see if he had more and this is what he has 
 1 raytheon like i got
 1 new military tung-sol 6ak5w
 1 new rca military
 4 tung-sol 6ak5 not in boxes
 5 used western electric non military used
 for 16 shipped my question is with the new tung-sol and rca how closely do tubes have to match to sound good can i just buy another say tung-sol 6ak5w or would it have to be a military one about the same date to match up idon't want to buy tubes and not be able to match them up.
 thanks in advance for any info 
 Hipcat


----------



## CQ DX

Thanks for the responses and info to my previous post.

 Even though the stock Raytheon military issue tubes (JRP5654?) that came with my MKIII sound great, I decided to buy my very first extra set of NOS tubes to officially become a 'tube roller'!

 I just ordered a matched pair of Hytron JHY-6AK5, EF95 tubes. I'm hoping they sound better than the stocks. Anyone else have any experience with the Hytrons? Thanks!



 * My cans are Senn HD-595's and i'm currently also using the MKIII as a line level preamp.


----------



## sinisterm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Devolve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have an idea what the best tubes for metal music would be? More specifically: Black metal, melodic death, folk types. Just have stock tubes right now._

 

I really like the Russians (6J1P-EV EF95) with metal. At least with Grado's they really shine.


----------



## internethandle

Just got a KECES DA-151 Mk 1 DAC from another Head-Fi'er, and I like it a lot - really cleans up the sound and basically destroys what was left of my HD 600's "veil," but I'm also finding that it's so clean that it's really detracted from the warmness/tubey-ness of my LD MK III. Right now I'm using a pair of NOS GE 5 Star's, which sound great, but most of the time with them or any of my other EF95 tubes it feels like I'm listening to a solid state amp. The other issue is that the KECES seems to be making the bass a little less "fat" and much, much more lean, which is nice sometimes, and other times not so much.

 My thought is that if I try out some EF92's, which I haven't yet (or even some EF91's), that it should balance out the equation a bit, since I've heard that EF92's and EF91's are the most "loose" or "tubey" sounding of the possible LD MKIII driver tubes. Am I right in thinking this? I don't want to get rid of my KECES - before getting it I actually was leaning more toward driver tubes that sounded morel like "hybrid" tubes, with a more solid state/tube hybrid sound, I just feel like now with the KECES it's swung a bit too much toward the solid state level.


----------



## KMASCII

internethandle (and anyone else asking about the M8161's):
 I'd just gotten the Little Dot DAC_1 and an extra pair of Mullard M8161 (CV4015). Like your DAC, the LD DAC definitely cleans up the sound and introduces some really nice imaging to the MKIII. And the only way of describing it is, as you said, clean. I listen with HD650's and although the default EF95 tubes sounded good, they lacked a bit of the midrange detail that the M8161's have now brought out. The slight brightness, and bassyness, of the default EF95 tubes is also gone.

 I'm not sure what you might call a SS sound. But the EF92's (the Mullards at least) did tame the slight brightness for my ears, and smoothed the highs overall. Conversely, the highs seem to be better defined (better balanced?). On the bass end, the M8161's will bring a little more definition too, but not as full as with the default EF95's. Which for me is a big bonus. All-in-all, the sound is more balanced and nothing seems out of proportion. Now... whether this is SS sounding to you I'm not sure. But the M8161's will be smooth, but more defined and balanced. No frequencies are standing out now and they all seem to compliment each other nicely.

 Keep in mind that what I've described is when listening with the HD650's. The Little Dot DAC_1 has a digital filter setting. And this digital filter setting impacts the characteristics of the sound too. The HD650's and M8161's (EF92's) sound best to me with the LD DAC's digital filter set to sharp.

 Now, I've just plugged in my Grado 325is and compared to the HD650's the Grados sound thin (which they do anyway). For me, the Grado's aren't kind to the lower range frequencies at the best of times. However, when I switch my DAC's digital filter to slow, then the Grados become more listenable and the thinness is lessened. I need to find some good mellow tubes for these Grados. So... I don't believe the HD600's would be as bright as the Grado's. But I think that the HD600's will be more similar.

 The LD DAC is, I believe, very transparent (save the digital filter). Or, if not entirely transparent, at least presents a very, very clean sound. I think that you would enjoy the sound of the Mullard M8161's if those were the EF92's you ended up buying. They bring more midrange detail compared to the default EF95's. And they smooth the highs and lows which actually enhances the detail. I suppose the decay and imaging aren't as hidden.

 Nice tube for the Sennheisers, the Mullard M8161 I mean.


----------



## EluamousNailo

Well I recently purchased a few sets of new tubes and will be rolling them sometime next week I think.

 So far I got 1 pair of GE 5 stars, RCA Command, and Sovtek 6H30Pi Power tubes. There's not really a whole lot about power tubes throughout this thread, but I figured it was worth trying out.


----------



## sinisterm

Anyone heard of "Westinghouse 6AK5W" or "National Union JNU 6AK5"? Never ever heard of those manufacturers, or are they just some relabeled tubes? God I gotta get rid of this amp, these tubes are beginning to cost more than a new amp..

 Still waiting for those France RTC 5654's, I'll post some impressions as soon as I get them, and have some hours on them.


----------



## sinisterm

double post


----------



## internethandle

Unfortunately, my LD MK III is old enough (around 14 months or so) that I can't be certain, without taking the thing apart (which, given its case construction, I'm not comfortable with), that I can use 6H30pi tubes. Given that I've heard they make the MK III run really hot, I don't know if I would like to.

 However, I'm using some pretty old stock 6N6P tubes, and think some NOS's would help my overall sound. Gonna try those out.

 Thanks for the EF92 advice, KAMSCII, really appreciate it! I'm actually getting really attached to my cureent KECES DA-151 and NOS GE 5 Star set-up as they start to burn in, but I'm still gonna take a dip into Mullard EF92's and see what that does.


----------



## internethandle

double post


----------



## ScottieB

You should be able to flip the amp over and look through the holes at the bottom and not have to take it apart. There's a version number printed on the board. I'm pretty sure at v2.0 they made the change to the PCB.


----------



## CQ DX

Just rolled my first set of tubes. I went with the Hytron JHY-6AK5 mil-spec, and the sound is 'to die for' (great detail, soundstage, and accurate timbres), even with just 5 hours break-in time! I'm 48 years young, and the only time I listened to tubes before was on my father's classic FISHER 500C receiver (which he still has) many moons ago, BUT the speakers attached to it inside his humongous cheesy wood console (we called it 'The Titanic'!) sounded like crap. So you can imagine my sheer joy and surprise when listening to tubes for the first time with the MKIII via good cans and good speakers (as a preamp). This is like re-discovering hi-fi (what we called it back in the 70's) all over again! I'm hearing nuances and details in my CD's that I have never heard before (as cliche as this sounds, it's true)!

 Anyway, I noticed the NOS Hytrons lost most of their white lettering label after firing them up for the first time. Is this normal? Enquiring tube newbies want to know!

 Gracie!


----------



## sinisterm

Damn these RTC's look cool. Lots of light in the bottom of the tube, and a pillar of light rising from there all the way to the top of the tube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Wish I had camera so I could share this beauty with you.

 ... and they sound really nice with AKG 701's, but I'll get back to it after the tubes get some hours.


----------



## EluamousNailo

So far out of the RCA COMMAND and GE 5 stars I have to say I like the 5 stars better...Can't really put a finger on why, they just seem to sound better to me...I'm also enjoying my new 6H30Pi's too.


----------



## sinisterm

These RTC's were pretty good straight out of box, but now with hours they got some weird boost to bass, especially drums sound boomy and so. Pretty horrible sounding to my taste at least.

 Tried with AKG 701, GS1000 and Ultrasone HFI-780.

 The 701's are unlistenable with these. Bleh, time to try something else then.


----------



## KTVU

I have owned this amp for several months now along with my cans, and over that period of time I can say that they are broken/burned in. I am looking into tube rolling on the side, before buying an SS amp to compare and contrast.

 Please recommend me some tubes based on the following:

 PC -> foobar2000 (E-MU ASIO + Noise Sharpening DSP) -> E-MU 0404 USB -> LDMKIII (stock tubes, gain 10) -> DT880/600

 When I do sit down to enjoy music, it is mainly electronic (breakbeat, electro, some ambient, all based on the current mood). On the side I do enjoy some acoustic, rock, some classical (Shawshank Redemption soundtrack, etc).

 I have searched the vast amount of pages in this thread, only to end up having to ask for some insight based on my setup.

 TIA


----------



## Trapper32

WOW ...what a difference a tube makes. I`ve become addicted to tube rolling, trying probably over 20 different varieties of the EF91, EF92, and 6ak5 variants. I had tried a couple of the Russian Rockets earlier and wasn`t that impressed but recently tried a new pair i just bought...the `groove tube` the 6j1p-ev. They actually have 3 grooves in the tube. Great punch and dynamics with a very balanced sound. You can feel the kick drum with this tube for sure. One of my favorites now. Was gonna put my LD up for sale but I`m enjoying it too much now.


----------



## Bowedtoothdoc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn these RTC's look cool. Lots of light in the bottom of the tube, and a pillar of light rising from there all the way to the top of the tube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Wish I had camera so I could share this beauty with you.

 ... and they sound really nice with AKG 701's, but I'll get back to it after the tubes get some hours._

 

Sinisterm,
 I have ordered the LDMKIII and have the AKG 701's. I just ordered the Mullard's EF91's that you mentioned in a previous post. What are the RTC's that you are referring to above and how do they sound after break in compared to the Mullards. Also can you provide a link to where you got them.
 Thanks,

 Bowedtootdoc


----------



## Bowedtoothdoc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinisterm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These RTC's were pretty good straight out of box, but now with hours they got some weird boost to bass, especially drums sound boomy and so. Pretty horrible sounding to my taste at least.

 Tried with AKG 701, GS1000 and Ultrasone HFI-780.

 The 701's are unlistenable with these. Bleh, time to try something else then._

 

Looks like I found the answer? Does anyone have a link to purchase the Russian tubes mentioned earlier in this thread?


----------



## Bowedtoothdoc

I found the Russian tubes on EBAY here.

6J1P EF95 6F32 6AK7 NOS VOSKHOD 70's MATCHED PAIR TUBE - eBay (item 250546291264 end time Jan-09-10 07:30:56 PST)


----------



## hipcat

Just brought a set of the russian " grove tubes" can't wait to roll them! Has anyone tried the sovtec 6h30pi power tubes, I can't beleive the improvement in SQ I got after I installed them!


----------



## jclaytonsound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hipcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just brought a set of the russian " grove tubes" can't wait to roll them! Has anyone tried the sovtec 6h30pi power tubes, I can't beleive the improvement in SQ I got after I installed them!_

 

What type of improvement specifically?


----------



## hipcat

everything improved tighter bass the highs don't sound as harsh and the mids are a little 
 more liquid. They made all my tubes sound better but the most improved tubes was the mullard 8100's they went from my 3rd favorite to my best.


----------



## jclaytonsound

Great...did you notice the amp running any hotter with these tubes in?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hipcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_everything improved tighter bass the highs don't sound as harsh and the mids are a little 
 more liquid. They made all my tubes sound better but the most improved tubes was the mullard 8100's they went from my 3rd favorite to my best._


----------



## hipcat

No, it did not seem to run any hotter but I hooked up a small silent computer fan that 
 turns on when I turn my amp on this keeps my amp running pretty cool.


----------



## jclaytonsound

Hipcat, Do you happen to know where I can find a pair of these? Thanks!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hipcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just brought a set of the russian " grove tubes" can't wait to roll them! Has anyone tried the sovtec 6h30pi power tubes, I can't beleive the improvement in SQ I got after I installed them!_


----------



## hipcat

I got mine from Sovtek 6H30PI 29.95 for 1 + shipping. Got mine pretty quickly.


----------



## jclaytonsound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hipcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine from Sovtek 6H30PI 29.95 for 1 + shipping. Got mine pretty quickly._

 

Thanks.


----------



## J.P.6

Hi guys,

 I'm using some Ultrasone Pro 750 cans with my Little Dot Mk III, I've still got the stock power tubes in there (6H6П) and rolled out the stock drivers a while back with some Mullard EF95 (CV4010) tubes. I get a little bit of distortion with high amounts of bass and treble on certain tracks and was wondering what other tubes people suggest for trying to overcome this? 

 The DIP switches are set for high sensitivity/low impedance headphones to match my Ultrasones. I've also tried some Mullard EF92 (CV4014) tubes, however these gave me a lot of distortion. 

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *J.P.6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 I'm using some Ultrasone Pro 750 cans with my Little Dot Mk III, I've still got the stock power tubes in there (6H6П) and rolled out the stock drivers a while back with some Mullard EF95 (CV4010) tubes. I get a little bit of distortion with high amounts of bass and treble on certain tracks and was wondering what other tubes people suggest for trying to overcome this? 

 The DIP switches are set for high sensitivity/low impedance headphones to match my Ultrasones. I've also tried some Mullard EF92 (CV4014) tubes, however these gave me a lot of distortion. 

 Thanks in advance._

 

You shouldn't be getting any distortion. Since it happens with two different set of driver tubes, I'd suggest swapping out with a different set of 6H6N power tubes to see if that is the problem first.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *J.P.6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 I'm using some Ultrasone Pro 750 cans with my Little Dot Mk III, I've still got the stock power tubes in there (6H6П) and rolled out the stock drivers a while back with some Mullard EF95 (CV4010) tubes. I get a little bit of distortion with high amounts of bass and treble on certain tracks and was wondering what other tubes people suggest for trying to overcome this? 

 The DIP switches are set for high sensitivity/low impedance headphones to match my Ultrasones. I've also tried some Mullard EF92 (CV4014) tubes, however these gave me a lot of distortion. 

 Thanks in advance._

 

This is EXACTLY what happened to me. It sounds like your power tubes are on their way out - how old is your amp?

 The ultrasones are low-impedance headphones, which are actually a higher load for this amp than low impedance cans. When this happened to me I'd been listening to Sennheisers (300 ohm) and heard no distortion, but when I used my Grado's (32ohm) I heard it in the same types of places you are noting. If I put my Senns back in, no distortion. 

 I replaced the power tubes and all is well. The old ones still work fine with my Senns, but not Grados. New power tubes can be bought pretty cheap so it isn't a big deal, but I also bought an impedance adapter to raise the impedance of my Grados (and Ultrasones) in my Little Dot.

 Do you have any other headphones you can use to test this theory?


----------



## J.P.6

Ah good to see it's not just me then. 

 Well the amp is about a year old, which I bought second hand and as far I know these tubes are still the originals, so may be quite old/on the way out. 

 I don't have any other cans to use to test unfortunately, though using an impedance adapter may be a good idea, didn't think of that. Did it make much difference for you?


----------



## ScottieB

YEah my first set of tubes went after about a year so that matches up. It has been about a year since and the tubes have held up so far, with heavy Grado use with the adapter, so I'd say it is working. I didn't notice a sound difference and still love my 325is's with tubes. I had someone here make it for me - top quality and I think I paid maybe $40 or $45 shipped. PM me if you'd like the name of the guy - I'd have to dig it up.


----------



## Narynan

I apologize if this is in the wrong section, I debated if here or sound science was the right place....

 Anyway. I couple days ago I ordered the Little Dot MKIII, and now in this thread I'm reading about all these great tubes and all the fun everyone is having. But I know NOTHING about tubes. Does anyone have any good base links for what I need to know about the tubes? I am near page 15 or so of the thread, so I am going to rear it from top to bottom. There is just alot missing in my knowledge. 

 Other than just googleing or ebaying the model numbers, how do I find good tubes? How do i know what I am looking at in a 40+ y/o tube is good? 

 As it stands right now other than plugging it in, I have no idea what going to go on with the tubes. What am I looking for on ebay for good tubes?

 If this has been asked, I apologize. I am just seeking guidance.

 Thanks everyone!


----------



## Nachkebia

Little Dot MKIII and MKIV have same rolling capability right?


----------



## hipcat

Narynan, a few months ago I was in the same boat as you. I brought a mkIII and did not know very much about tubes. The best advice I can give you is to read this thread (also the thread review of the little-dot mkIII tube headphone mp/pre-amp by Penchum). It will take a little while but alot of your queations will be answered and you will know alot more about your ld. The only way to see if a tube works for you is to try it. I read this thread and started to buy tubes that most recomended. For the most part I found that some sounded great others were o.k. But you have to try them with your anp/hp combination to see if they sound good to you. In aroond pages 90 to 100 there is a link with all the tubes numbers you can use in your ld for a ebay search. I pasted this in ebay and check daily to see if there are any new tubes for sale. Also in the diy forum in the first 2 pages are so There is a thread by Vixr (handy tube substitute guide ) with a good link in it. In this forum in the sticky threads at the top is a tube site thread were you can get differtent web sites to buy tubes and a sticky for The new and improved tube faq for newbies, this one will tell you the basic's about how a tube works.
 I hope this helps you out.


----------



## bik2101

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hipcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just brought a set of the russian " grove tubes" can't wait to roll them! Has anyone tried the sovtec 6h30pi power tubes, I can't beleive the improvement in SQ I got after I installed them!_

 

isn't there an issue with the resistance not being correct or something like that? i thought that's what i read in penchum's review of the mkIII - that in order to use these 6h30pi power tubes, you have to modify the amp.


----------



## hipcat

From what I understand LD upgraded the mkIII's so they could use these tubes.I have beed running them for a little over a month now for hours at a time with no problems.


----------



## theryaner

waaayy too many pages in this topic so I'll just ask.

 What's the difference between the m8100 and the m8161? I currently own the m8100 and it definitely smoothed things out for my grado 325is.

 Also, I'm curious about the GE 5 star, how does that sound like in comparison to mullard tubes?


----------



## hipcat

the m8100 is a ef95 tube, the m8161 is a ef92 tube. I have both the m8100 and 5 star
 they are both great sounding tubes but the m8100 is my current favorite it has a little more bass to it than the 5 stars.


----------



## Narynan

Will these tubes all work? I think they will but I'm about to order and dont want to get the wrong stuff.

4X NOS NIB CV138 / EF91 / 6AM6 MULLARD TUBES. - eBay (item 330380567291 end time Jan-24-10 02:44:55 PST)

 Are these the cheap-o good bass Russian rock tubes im reading about?
6J1P-EV = 6AK7 = EF95 Tubes NOS Lot of 10 - eBay (item 110440675090 end time Jan-28-10 12:46:16 PST)

2x NOS MULLARD CV4010 VALVE EF95 M8100 6AK5 5654 Tubes - eBay (item 270506323434 end time Jan-24-10 13:20:14 PST)

CV4015 M8161 EF92 9D6 MULLARD QDD TUBE VALVE NOS PAIR - eBay (item 270280786849 end time Jan-21-10 03:42:27 PST)


----------



## Trapper32

Yes those will all work. Can''t tell whether those Russians have the three grooves or not. A year ago I tried the non groove ones and wasn't impressed but awhile ago I purchased some more with the grooves and was blown away by them....I think they were made in the Voshkod factory in the 70's 
 Good luck!!! 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Narynan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will these tubes all work? I think they will but I'm about to order and dont want to get the wrong stuff.

4X NOS NIB CV138 / EF91 / 6AM6 MULLARD TUBES. - eBay (item 330380567291 end time Jan-24-10 02:44:55 PST)

 Are these the cheap-o good bass Russian rock tubes im reading about?
6J1P-EV = 6AK7 = EF95 Tubes NOS Lot of 10 - eBay (item 110440675090 end time Jan-28-10 12:46:16 PST)

2x NOS MULLARD CV4010 VALVE EF95 M8100 6AK5 5654 Tubes - eBay (item 270506323434 end time Jan-24-10 13:20:14 PST)

CV4015 M8161 EF92 9D6 MULLARD QDD TUBE VALVE NOS PAIR - eBay (item 270280786849 end time Jan-21-10 03:42:27 PST)_


----------



## Narynan

Alright! Thanks. I decided to go with a link from an earlier post and make sure I get the matched pair for those Russian grooves. 

 I dont know what to do with my last $30. I got some 8161's and the Voskhods. 

 Any recommendations? I am thinking that either that batch of 10 NOS 95's. 

 Links would be great. I am up for suggestions. Mostly rock and on Grado 325is.


----------



## hipcat

WOW! I just got the russian "groove tubes" in this morning stuck them in my amp and 4 songs in they sound awesome! I just ordered another set as back ups ( at 8.99 a set you can't go wrong ). They sound as good as the 5 stars I have and if they get any better with some burn in time WOW!!! Right know I'm listening to Van Morrison's Gloria and they bass is nice and tight.


----------



## David.M

these m8161 are starting to shine slowly

 I only got about 15-20 hours burn in on them, but i can notice the clarity in the mids evening out and the highs starting to get better. definitely more warmer and balanced then the stock tubes. 

 I think this needs another 20 hours or so to be complete. I have the newer mkiii version 2.0 so i can use the Sovtek 6H30PI power tubes. I'll definitely give these a try.


----------



## nivlek

I just ordered the EF92 tubes. Do I need to open the case to put on the jumpers? I can only see the gain switches from the holes.


----------



## bik2101

look through the other holes. they are not in the same location as the gain switches..
 you don;t need to open up the case to put on/ take off jumpers


----------



## Bowedtoothdoc

Just wanted to comment on this amp which I just received today and am currently burning it in with stock tubes. I have it paired with the LD DAC 1 and AKG K701's.
 I have the switches set for the second highest gain setting and get plenty of volume at the 10 oclock position or 30 on the dial. Out of the box sounds really nice and the AKG's still have low hours on them. Can't wait to see how things improve with some time!


----------



## jclaytonsound

Which of these two sets of 6H30Pi power tubes do you think I should get? Has anyone tried the Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold Pin? The price is pretty close...

Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold

Sovtek 6H30PI

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hipcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_JHas anyone tried the sovtec 6h30pi power tubes, I can't beleive the improvement in SQ I got after I installed them!_

 

Hipcat,

 Did you consider the Electro-Harmonix when you purchased your Sovteks?

 Thanks.


----------



## nivlek

So i found the jumpers section, there are 3 pins however the jumper's size only cover two pins. Which pins do I cover to make the selection?


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nivlek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So i found the jumpers section, there are 3 pins however the jumper's size only cover two pins. Which pins do I cover to make the selection?_

 

On mine you cover two of the three pins for the EF95 and then move them over one pin to cover the two pins for the EF92/91. It should have the pcb lettered with EF92 to show which pins need to be covered for those tubes....at least mine does..


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hipcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW! I just got the russian "groove tubes" in this morning stuck them in my amp and 4 songs in they sound awesome! I just ordered another set as back ups ( at 8.99 a set you can't go wrong ). They sound as good as the 5 stars I have and if they get any better with some burn in time WOW!!! Right know I'm listening to Van Morrison's Gloria and they bass is nice and tight._

 







 Glad someone else is enjoying them as much as I do. You can FEEL the kick drum with these. Really a nice tube. I bought more than i need so if anyone needs a few I have some available.


----------



## Bowedtoothdoc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jclaytonsound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which of these two sets of 6H30Pi power tubes do you think I should get? Has anyone tried the Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold Pin? The price is pretty close...

Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold

Sovtek 6H30PI



 Hipcat,

 Did you consider the Electro-Harmonix when you purchased your Sovteks?

 Thanks._

 

I'm curious about this as well as I would like to order some of the 6H30Pi power tubes, but was hoping to find some at a lower price. 30$ per tube seems a bit pricy to me?


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bowedtoothdoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm curious about this as well as I would like to order some of the 6H30Pi power tubes, but was hoping to find some at a lower price. 30$ per tube seems a bit pricy to me?_

 

I just bought a matched pair for 49.50 from Jim Mcshane in Chicago. I should get them tommorow or thursday. Will post but I have a MK11. jimmcshane@prodigy.net very reliable guy.


----------



## HenrySsy

Quick! someone reaffirm that this setup is solid and the way to go.

 LD DAC_1
 LD MK III

 About to hit the PayPal pay now button. Sweating...


----------



## HenrySsy

oops, double post.

 Pressed the button. Phew.. thanks for the push Frank. :j


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HenrySsy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick! someone reaffirm that this setup is solid and the way to go.

 LD DAC_1
 LD MK III

 About to hit the PayPal pay now button. Sweating..._

 

Go for it. You will be happy


----------



## hipcat

When I brought the Sovtec's they were out of the Electro-Harmonix not sure what I would have done if they had them in. But I have no regrets about the Sovtec's they sound great!
 Has anyone tried the Sovtec Super Tube for 160 each? Can't beleive they would make a big enough difference for the cost but if they did......Hmmmm


----------



## Bowedtoothdoc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought a matched pair for 49.50 from Jim Mcshane in Chicago. I should get them tommorow or thursday. Will post but I have a MK11. jimmcshane@prodigy.net very reliable guy._

 

Thanks for the information!


----------



## Palpatine

Way too many pages...my eyes are going buggy.
 Can anyone recommend a good set of tubes for my LD MK III which I have been using stock for 6 months.
 I'd like to not play around with jumpers if at all possible...just plug and play.
 I'd like deeper and tighter bass with not major changes elsewhere.
 Thanks


----------



## Bowedtoothdoc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_






 Glad someone else is enjoying them as much as I do. You can FEEL the kick drum with these. Really a nice tube. I bought more than i need so if anyone needs a few I have some available._

 

Would you pm me if you still have some of the groove tubes and would be willing to part with a pair?
 Thanks!


----------



## hipcat

Palpatine, I'd say the russian groove tubes are a must for the price (about $10 a set on ebayhttp://cgi.ebay.com/6J1P-EF95-6F32-6AK7-NOS-VOSKHOD-70s-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBE_W0QQitemZ250558192648QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVinta ge_Electronics_R2?hash=item3a566e9c08). The m8100's are also a good tube for bass (right now in the for sale cables speaker tweaks forum, xuan87 has used m8100,s for $10 I've brought from him before and would again) I have both sets of tubes and they are at the top of my favorites list.


----------



## Bowedtoothdoc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bowedtoothdoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you pm me if you still have some of the groove tubes and would be willing to part with a pair?
 Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sorry, but I just realized that I already have a pair of the groove tubes.
 Just put them in my MKIII for burn in, already sound very detailed, a bit light on bass, but I'm sure that will improve in time.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What I am interested in is the power tubes mentioned above.


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bowedtoothdoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, but I just realized that I already have a pair of the groove tubes.
 Just put them in my MKIII for burn in, already sound very detailed, a bit light on bass, but I'm sure that will improve in time.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What I am interested in is the power tubes mentioned above._

 

I just ordered four Mullard E95-4010 from Ebay from Arthur in England 36.00 for all of them shipped.


----------



## Palpatine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hipcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Palpatine, I'd say the russian groove tubes are a must for the price (about $10 a set on ebayhttp://cgi.ebay.com/6J1P-EF95-6F32-6AK7-NOS-VOSKHOD-70s-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBE_W0QQitemZ250558192648QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVinta ge_Electronics_R2?hash=item3a566e9c08). The m8100's are also a good tube for bass (right now in the for sale cables speaker tweaks forum, xuan87 has used m8100,s for $10 I've brought from him before and would again) I have both sets of tubes and they are at the top of my favorites list._

 

Thanks, Hipcat!


----------



## Bowedtoothdoc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jclaytonsound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which of these two sets of 6H30Pi power tubes do you think I should get? Has anyone tried the Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold Pin? The price is pretty close...

Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold

Sovtek 6H30PI



 Hipcat,

 Did you consider the Electro-Harmonix when you purchased your Sovteks?

 Thanks._

 

After researching this a bit I may have an answer for you. It seem that both of the above tubes would be an improvement over the stock power tubes.
 The Sovtek's being more transparent, neutral, lively and fast. The EH fuller sound, smoother, bit more presence in the bass, more romantic in the midrange. I think it all depends on your particular set up and what your trying to acheive. I'll probably end up trying both!


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bowedtoothdoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After researching this a bit I may have an answer for you. It seem that both of the above tubes would be an improvement over the stock power tubes.
 The Sovtek's being more transparent, neutral, lively and fast. The EH fuller sound, smoother, bit more presence in the bass, more romantic in the midrange. I think it all depends on your particular set up and what your trying to acheive. I'll probably end up trying both!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just so you know they are both the same tubes. They are both Sovtek and made in the same factory. There was a discussion by Victor Khomenko who termed the phrase super tube for his BAT preamps on Audio Asylum regarding this tube. He aslo said there is many rebrands but its the Sovtek you would want.


----------



## Bowedtoothdoc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just so you know they are both the same tubes. They are both Sovtek and made in the same factory. There was a discussion by Victor Khomenko who termed the phrase super tube for his BAT preamps on Audio Asylum regarding this tube. He aslo said there is many rebrands but its the Sovtek you would want._

 

Thanks,
 I have ordered the Sovtek's from Jim.


----------



## Narynan

Hello everyone. I just got my MKIII today! 

 I am kinda weirded out by it though. I have the unit set to off, and its still passing sound through to my cans. Should it be working while I have the power switched off? 

 Also, it seems like that by moving the power knob, I dont get much response. 

 I have it all set at the defaults havent played with the switches yet, and its running my Grado 325is. 

 Is there anything I should know?


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bowedtoothdoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks,
 I have ordered the Sovtek's from Jim.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Jim a great guy and a true tube guru. Will be matched perfectly. I hope mine get here tomorrow. If not oh well. Just found some 4010/6ak5 Mullards in England ordered 4 shipped 36.00 from ebay. Jim has some Hytons for 10.00 pair and has tungsol and Raytheon also but I have to hold off on those for another month.


----------



## jclaytonsound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bowedtoothdoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks,
 I have ordered the Sovtek's from Jim.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jim a great guy and a true tube guru. Will be matched perfectly. I hope mine get here tomorrow._

 

I would definitely be interested in hearing some impressions once they arrive! I'm located in Chicago, so I'm wondering if I can arrange a local pickup for a little cheaper...I'll have to shoot him an e-mail.


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jclaytonsound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would definitely be interested in hearing some impressions once they arrive! I'm located in Chicago, so I'm wondering if I can arrange a local pickup for a little cheaper...I'll have to shoot him an e-mail._

 

I will post impressions probably by weekend. A little off topic I see you own D2000 and HD600 which do you prefer as I am thinking about adding one of those to my stable. I own AKG701,Shure SRH840 and the Denon 1001. I am thinking of the HD600


----------



## Frank I

The Little Dot MK111 is not available on Little Dot site any longer. Wondering if a new amp is coming out. Anyone speak with David about this or have any idea if new amp is on the horizon


----------



## Palpatine

Ordered the 6J1P! Hopefully they will arrive soon!


----------



## jclaytonsound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will post impressions probably by weekend. A little off topic I see you own D2000 and HD600 which do you prefer as I am thinking about adding one of those to my stable. I own AKG701,Shure SRH840 and the Denon 1001. I am thinking of the HD600_

 

I would say it depends on the style of music you're looking to use them with. I use the HD600 for classical, and the Denons for rock, metal, electronic, etc. I really like the house sound of the Sennheisers as a compliment to my AKG 501s. However, the HD600 seems to have a spike in the upper frequency range that is irritating to my ears, which I have a whole other thread on: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/hd6...ew-amp-465194/

 This is part of the reason I want to try the Sovteks; to see if that will fix the issue before I move on to the HD650. But don't discount the HD600; it still is a really great can, and a lot of people don't agree with my perceptions. We all hear differently I guess. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I'm not mistaken, the Denon 1001 is in the same family as the D2000, so the two cans may have a similar sound signature (don't know much about the 1001s). If they do, then it's simply a matter of whether you want to improve on the sound of 1001, or are looking for a completely different compliment to your headphone lineup.

 Feel free to PM me for further discussion; I don't want to hi-jack the thread anymore than we have already


----------



## Bowedtoothdoc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Narynan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello everyone. I just got my MKIII today! 

 I am kinda weirded out by it though. I have the unit set to off, and its still passing sound through to my cans. Should it be working while I have the power switched off? 

 Also, it seems like that by moving the power knob, I dont get much response. 

 I have it all set at the defaults havent played with the switches yet, and its running my Grado 325is. 

 Is there anything I should know?_

 

I would unplug the unit and check all of your connections. Make sure you are using the correct inputs on the back of the unit. Also check and make sure that your jumpers are in place on the bottom of the unit. They could have been knocked out during shipping. Carefully remove the tubes making sure no pins are broken and reinsert. If none of the above helps you may have to contact David @ Little Dot for help or replacement.


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jclaytonsound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would say it depends on the style of music you're looking to use them with. I use the HD600 for classical, and the Denons for rock, metal, electronic, etc. I really like the house sound of the Sennheisers as a compliment to my AKG 501s. However, the HD600 seems to have a spike in the upper frequency range that is irritating to my ears, which I have a whole other thread on: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/hd6...ew-amp-465194/

 This is part of the reason I want to try the Sovteks; to see if that will fix the issue before I move on to the HD650. But don't discount the HD600; it still is a really great can, and a lot of people don't agree with my perceptions. We all hear differently I guess. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If I'm not mistaken, the Denon 1001 is in the same family as the D2000, so the two cans may have a similar sound signature (don't know much about the 1001s). If they do, then it's simply a matter of whether you want to improve on the sound of 1001, or are looking for a completely different compliment to your headphone lineup.

 Feel free to PM me for further discussion; I don't want to hi-jack the thread anymore than we have already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I appreciate your comments. the Sennheiser will probably be the next can I play with. The Shure are good for rock. The 701 are great for most and the 1001 and 2000 are very similar except the 200ois more bumped in the bass. I will listen to the HD600 and see how it sounds. PS still waiting on my Sovtek


----------



## David.M

just got and rolled some Sovtek 6H30-Pi power tubes a few hours ago.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 whoa. definitely much much much cleaner/balancier(is that even a word?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)than the stock power tubes.

 bass impact kicks in a bit and gives it some-what more authority (it also feels more lively as well), soundstage seems laid back ( semi-aggressive at times). The tiny bit of sibilance that i had with my beyer dt880(250 ohm) cans are completely gone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 overall verdict: amazing if you're using pre-amp. nonetheless, very decent for a headphone setup ; but is it worth the $60 for the pair?

 dunno yet ! i got to burn these in a bit longer and thoroughly compare and contrast with the stock ones. 

 I would just stick to rolling the driver tubes for those who are in a budget and upgrade to these power tubes later on


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *David.M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got and rolled some Sovtek 6H30-Pi power tubes a few hours ago.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 whoa. definitely much much much cleaner/balancier(is that even a word?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)than the stock power tubes.

 bass impact kicks in a bit and gives it some-what more authority (it also feels more lively as well), soundstage seems laid back ( semi-aggressive at times). The tiny bit of sibilance that i had with my beyer dt880(250 ohm) cans are completely gone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 overall verdict: amazing if you're using pre-amp. nonetheless, very decent for a headphone setup ; but is it worth the $60 for the pair?

 dunno yet ! i got to burn these in a bit longer and thoroughly compare and contrast with the stock ones. 

 I would just stick to rolling the driver tubes for those who are in a budget and upgrade to these power tubes later on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Waiting for mine. Hope they come today. Nice early impression.


----------



## Frank I

Checked the mail and I now have the 6H30PI installed in my Mk11. ]Way early to make any impressions over the 6n6P but so far similiar sounding. Then again just warming up.


----------



## David.M

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Checked the mail and I now have the 6H30PI installed in my *[size=x-small]Mk11[/size]*. ]Way early to make any impressions over the 6n6P but so far similiar sounding. Then again just warming up._

 


 He's a MK2 user. 

 Burn him and BRICK HIS HOUSE !!!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but yeah... IMO, these sovtek power tubes are gonna need some burn in to their potential. I wouldn't call them A grade better than the stock ones, but everything seems more tighter and intact. In some Celldweller/ Breaking Benjamin songs, i can hear the drums, guitars, etc... kicking in with deeper and richer sound


----------



## Frank I

My impressions are pretty much the same, Does sound tighter bass is good but really need to open up. I will get a better idea after 40-75 hrs with them but the Russian 6n6p are looking mighty fine for 2 bucks a pop. I ordered 8 of those. i figure Im set for the life of this amp with what I have now.


----------



## Frank I

Now I am started to get impressed. The 6H30 has very tight and extended bass. You can hear both the pedal and wacks of the sticks with force. I also noticed acoustic bass is very tight but the drums sound so real. I believe when these open up that they may be worth the price. Much more bass than the 6n6p. Midrange and highs are nice. Will keep updating as I notice more.


----------



## hipcat

running the Sovtecs with the groove tubes or m8100's and the bass is awesome throught my d5000's


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hipcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_running the Sovtecs with the groove tubes or m8100's and the bass is awesome throught my d5000's_

 

I have some E95 /8100 Mullards coming should have them next week or so. Right now I am running them with my GE 5654 tommorow I will throw in a pair of Mullard 6ak5


----------



## David.M

after some more hours burn in , i think these Sovtek's are sounding phenomenal. they blend beautifully with my EF92 M8161. excellent mids, crystal clear highs, tight and deep bass. Listening to Rihanna/Jay-Z run this town;and i almost thought i was in a concert. incredible synergy with my beyer dt880's.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hipcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_running the Sovtecs with the groove tubes or m8100's and the bass is awesome throught my d5000's_

 

so what do the EF95 m8100 or the Russian groove offer that the M8161 don't ? more bass? I would love to try both of them to compare and contrast once my tubes are fully burn in


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *David.M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_after some more hours burn in , i think these Sovtek's are sounding phenomenal. they blend beautifully with my EF92 M8161. excellent mids, crystal clear highs, tight and deep bass. Listening to Rihanna/Jay-Z run this town;and i almost thought i was in a concert. incredible synergy with my beyer dt880's.



 so what do the EF95 m8100 or the Russian groove offer that the M8161 don't ? more bass? I would love to try both of them to compare and contrast once my tubes are fully burn in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I havent messed with the M8161 as I dont want to fiddle changing things as I like plug and pay options. From what I do remember about Penchum he did say E92 was like putting the amp on steroids. The Mullards I do have say both 6ak5 and 850 on them. i ordered the E95 because I paid 36.00 for 4 Mullards don't have them yet for comparison.


----------



## hipcat

I have all 3 and like the groove tubes or the m8100's the best( both of these are really close but the m8100 are burnt in and the groove tubes have only 10 hours on them) I don't think the m8161 are much better not to says they don't sound good but it's not worth switching jumpers around when you have a couple of good sets of ef95's and can plug and play.


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hipcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have all 3 and like the groove tubes or the m8100's the best( both of these are really close but the m8100 are burnt in and the groove tubes have only 10 hours on them) I don't think the m8161 are much better not to says they don't sound good but it's not worth switching jumpers around when you have a couple of good sets of ef95's and can plug and play._

 

Agree. I am waiting for the 8100. I did put the 6ak5 Mullard back in and its good also. For people who think there AKG 701 are too bright should really use a combo like this. The sound is very smooth and musical. The 6H30 with my Mullard combo is very enjoyable. More extended bass and magical midrange with the famous AKG high's. The tubes still arent burned in and early impression is that its worth the price for the 6H30 tube option.


----------



## lescanard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agree. I am waiting for the 8100. I did put the 6ak5 Mullard back in and its good also. For people who think there AKG 701 are too bright should really use a combo like this. The sound is very smooth and musical. The 6H30 with my Mullard combo is very enjoyable. More extended bass and magical midrange with the famous AKG high's. The tubes still arent burned in and early impression is that its worth the price for the 6H30 tube option._

 

The EF91 Mullards are also fantastic to take any edge off of the k701s if anyone thinks they have it (I don't) and they really improve the low end quite a bit in my opinion...they are a huge favorite of mine.


----------



## lescanard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hipcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have all 3 and like the groove tubes or the m8100's the best( both of these are really close but the m8100 are burnt in and the groove tubes have only 10 hours on them) I don't think the m8161 are much better not to says they don't sound good but it's not worth switching jumpers around when you have a couple of good sets of ef95's and can plug and play._

 

It's funny how different everyone is (and a lot depends on your cans) - I have a whole bunch of well regarded EF95s (GE 5-Star, Raytheons, 8100s, RCAs, Voshods) and all are "very good" and I wouldn't want to get rid of any of them. I just find the EF92 and EF91 family so much better for me in all the types of music that I listen to (Rock, Blues, Acoustics, Vocals). I'm running the blue EF91s in both of my LD amps right now and can't seem to find my way to change them up no matter which of my phones I'm listening to. That being said - I think the Russians have been my favorite to date of the 95s.


----------



## theadmans

I have been using Mullard 8161 tubes in my LD III since Xmas. I changed the jumpers when I installed these EF92 tubes. 

 I noticed that someone on another thread suggested that when you change the jumpers to EF92 - you also need to change the big power tubes as well. Is this correct as my amp seems to be running fine with the stock power tubes ??

 I think the the 8161's are a good upgrade. However, sometimes I still like to kick back and listen to my old LD II (not + or ++) amp. The sound from the LD II is much less detailed but is often more relaxing with my HD650 cans - anyone else find this?


----------



## hipcat

I ran stock power tubes with the m8161s and had no problems.


----------



## jclaytonsound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hipcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ran stock power tubes with the m8161s and had no problems._

 

Same here, I think the jumper change is the only requirement.


----------



## Bowedtoothdoc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *David.M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got and rolled some Sovtek 6H30-Pi power tubes a few hours ago.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 whoa. definitely much much much cleaner/balancier(is that even a word?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)than the stock power tubes.

 bass impact kicks in a bit and gives it some-what more authority (it also feels more lively as well), soundstage seems laid back ( semi-aggressive at times). The tiny bit of sibilance that i had with my beyer dt880(250 ohm) cans are completely gone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 overall verdict: amazing if you're using pre-amp. nonetheless, very decent for a headphone setup ; but is it worth the $60 for the pair?

 dunno yet ! i got to burn these in a bit longer and thoroughly compare and contrast with the stock ones. 

 I would just stick to rolling the driver tubes for those who are in a budget and upgrade to these power tubes later on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just did the same and the main thing that I noticed right off was a cleaner, more detailed sound! I am still using the stock driver tubes to have a fair comparison. I switched back and forth several times and definitely prefer the Sovtek 6H30-Pi's over the stock power tubes. With an tube amp at this price point one cannot expect it to come with the best tubes available, otherwise it would cost $100 more. I purchased my power tubes from Jim mentioned earlier in this thread. Within minutes of sending the email I received an paypal invoice, paid, and got a shipping email. That's pretty amazing! Excellent seller for the power tubes! Now time to try rolling driver tubes! I have Mullars EF91's, EF92's, and the Russian groove tubes, but I am pretty happy with this little amp already!


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bowedtoothdoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just did the same and the main thing that I noticed right off was a cleaner, more detailed sound! I am still using the stock driver tubes to have a fair comparison. I switched back and forth several times and definitely prefer the Sovtek 6H30-Pi's over the stock power tubes. With an tube amp at this price point one cannot expect it to come with the best tubes available, otherwise it would cost $100 more. I purchased my power tubes from Jim mentioned earlier in this thread. Within minutes of sending the email I received an paypal invoice, paid, and got a shipping email. That's pretty amazing! Excellent seller for the power tubes! Now time to try rolling driver tubes! I have Mullars EF91's, EF92's, and the Russian groove tubes, but I am pretty happy with this little amp already!



_

 

The biggest difference so far I am hearing with this tube is bass and blacker backer bound. The tube has really been nice. it still needs to open up. I only have about 16 hrs on them. With the Mullard ak iam using now very smooth with the GE 5654 big time bass. Jim is the best when ordering tubes super packing and they are matched.


----------



## debitsohn

just bought some Western Electric 403b off xuan87. any insight on sound or your feelings on how they stack up against other tubes like m8161s?


----------



## Frank I

The 6H30 is starting to open up. there has been a transformation on my AKG 701 with this tube. Very black background. Fast and powerful bass and super dynamics especially on classical recordings. Its major step up over the 6n6P. I recommend anyone with a Little dot to spend the 50.00 on the matched pair. its a different amp with these tubes iin the chain IMHO


----------



## jclaytonsound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *debitsohn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just bought some Western Electric 403b off xuan87. any insight on sound or your feelings on how they stack up against other tubes like m8161s?_

 

I think the 403B is the most balanced tube I own. For me, it doesn't have the initial "wow" factor that the Mullard EF91 has, which happens every time I put it in the amp. But I just find everything sounding good with this tube, and my listening sessions seem to go on longer when this tube is in the amp. I would say it's my second favorite tube next to the Mullard EF91, and that's over the GE 5 Star 6AK5W, Mullard M8100, Marconi 5654, Amperex EF92, etc. I haven't rolled the Russian 6ZH1P-EV enough yet to really compare though...

 As for direct comparisons, I'll have to dig out my m8161s and A/B them


----------



## debitsohn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jclaytonsound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the 403B is the most balanced tube I own. For me, it doesn't have the initial "wow" factor that the Mullard EF91 has, which happens every time I put it in the amp. But I just find everything sounding good with this tube, and my listening sessions seem to go on longer when this tube is in the amp. I would say it's my second favorite tube next to the Mullard EF91, and that's over the GE 5 Star 6AK5W, Mullard M8100, Marconi 5654, Amperex EF92, etc. I haven't rolled the Russian 6ZH1P-EV enough yet to really compare though...

 As for direct comparisons, I'll have to dig out my m8161s and A/B them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

thanks for the response! xuan said theyre one of his favorites but iw asnt sure how they would be. i guess it will have to do for now. cant wait for them to get here!


----------



## HenrySsy

Wow, definitely seems like there are a lot of tube flavors/options. 

 .. if you could only keep one pair, which would it be? :j


----------



## hipcat

The Russian Groove Tubes! Especially considering that their 10 bucks for a matched set!


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hipcat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Russian Groove Tubes! Especially considering that their 10 bucks for a matched set!_

 

Definitely the best bang for your buck IMO and I have tried a LOT of different brands. Of course it depends on your headphones, your upstream componenets and your musical preferences but the Groove's are a fun tube for sure and as you point out very cheap.


----------



## Frank I

6H30 with the Mullard CV4010 is magic in my system. The amp is completle now. They brougth it to another level especially using the AKG 701. No need for me to flop any more tubes. I have enough tubes to last for ten years.


----------



## HenrySsy

do you guys think i'll be missing out on the 'tube rolling experience' if i jump straight to your favorites?

 Edit: Eh, I'm just gonna grab the Voshod 6J1P-EV and Mullards M8161. I wonder why there's different prices on ebay for the same pair from the same seller...


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HenrySsy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you guys think i'll be missing out on the 'tube rolling experience' if i jump straight to your favorites?

 Edit: Eh, I'm just gonna grab the Voshod 6J1P-EV and Mullards M8161. I wonder why there's different prices on ebay for the same pair from the same seller..._

 

Tube rolling is addictive!!! But if you start with a few tubes that get good reviews by most then you are ahead of the game from the start for sure. And then you can gradually feed your addiction when great deals come up on eBay.


----------



## jclaytonsound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6H30 with the Mullard CV4010 is magic in my system. The amp is completle now. They brougth it to another level especially using the AKG 701. No need for me to flop any more tubes. I have enough tubes to last for ten years._

 

That's good to hear...I am still debating whether I want to drop another $50 on power tubes for this amp, or sell it and try out the new La Figaro 332S. With the Cardas cable I just got for my HD600s and the Russian groove tubes I just rolled, I am much more impressed with what I hear from this amp. I'm wondering if upgrading the power tubes is the last step to make me content, or if I should try another amp...there just seems to be something missing right now.

 Have you ever heard any of Darkvoice line compared to the MKIII? And if so, with the power tube upgrade on the MKIII, would you say it competes or trumps any of them?

 Thanks.


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jclaytonsound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's good to hear...I am still debating whether I want to drop another $50 on power tubes for this amp, or sell it and try out the new La Figaro 332S. With the Cardas cable I just got for my HD600s and the Russian groove tubes I just rolled, I am much more impressed with what I hear from this amp. I'm wondering if upgrading the power tubes is the last step to make me content, or if I should try another amp...there just seems to be something missing right now.

 Have you ever heard any of Darkvoice line compared to the MKIII? And if so, with the power tube upgrade on the MKIII, would you say it competes or trumps any of them?

 Thanks._

 

I would upgrade the tubes. Its a major improvement. It better than the Ruusian 6n6p and it really transformed my amp and its a wonder with the AKG 701 or any other phones. I personally would stay away from Darkvoice with what going on there. My Little Dot has performed flawlessy and I really see no need to upgrade my amp or source. Thats another amazing story. I bought the Marantz DV6001 Universal player on close out for 250.00 and I still in amazement how good the player is.I also use an Audioquest blabk samba interconnect. My headphone sytem is complete. Listening right now to JVC RX900 as its burning in. Wow 55.00


----------



## jclaytonsound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would upgrade the tubes. Its a major improvement. It better than the Ruusian 6n6p and it really transformed my amp and its a wonder with the AKG 701 or any other phones. I personally would stay away from Darkvoice with what going on there. My Little Dot has performed flawlessy and I really see no need to upgrade my amp or source. Thats another amazing story. I bought the Marantz DV6001 Universal player on close out for 250.00 and I still in amazement how good the player is.I also use an Audioquest blabk samba interconnect. My headphone sytem is complete. Listening right now to JVC RX900 as its burning in. Wow 55.00_

 

Thanks, that's certainly a better option for my wallet.


----------



## Palpatine

Just got the Russian groove tubes and plugged them into my MK III. Wow...what a change from my stock driver tubes. Deeper, but controlled bass. I love them! So cheap too!
 Next purchase...6H30-Pi's!


----------



## Shizdan

Where can I find the Voshod 6ZH1P-EV that penchum talks about in his review of the Little Dot MK III? 

 He says
  Quote:


 First were the Russian 6Zh1P-EVs. These inexpensive little gems are a rock and roller’s dream! The dynamics and punch they provide is very addictive! Extreme lows with punch, mids that are flat and accurate, and highs that drive the music into a toe tapping experience! I just love them!


----------



## erikzen

Check eBay for 6J1P-EV. It's the same tube.

 Edit: It looks like the Voshods have now become somewhat rare. I don't see any on ebay right now.


----------



## Shizdan

Are these them?


----------



## nivlek

The manual says you need circuit revision 2.0 or higher in order to use 6H30 type power tubes. How do I check if my amp is in this category?


----------



## jclaytonsound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nivlek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The manual says you need circuit revision 2.0 or higher in order to use 6H30 type power tubes. How do I check if my amp is in this category?_

 

Flip the amp over and look through the smallest hole on the left, closest to the front. You should be able to see the circuit board through the hole (probably need a flashlight), and the version number is printed on the board.

 It should say Little Dot MKIII v2.0 at the very edge.


----------



## Shizdan

Are these the Russian Groove Tubes everybody talks about?


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are these them?_

 

Those are the right tube variants but they don't seem to be Voshod, which were popular a year ago. I did a search but don't see Voshods anywhere anymore. Maybe these are the same brand. It was the USSR after all. Wasn't everything made by the same "company"?


----------



## Shizdan

Well I ordered These. They have the grooved tops and the EV in the name (I was told to look for that). Also this guy says they are the same?

 Was I supposed to order these?


----------



## Narynan

if your looking for the Voshods, here they are.

6J1P-EV / EF95 / 6F32 / 6AK7 Tubes NIB TESTED 4 pcs - eBay (item 390147234222 end time Feb-22-10 12:09:08 PST)


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Narynan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if your looking for the Voshods, here they are.

6J1P-EV / EF95 / 6F32 / 6AK7 Tubes NIB TESTED 4 pcs - eBay (item 390147234222 end time Feb-22-10 12:09:08 PST)_

 

Can anybody else confirm this?


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anybody else confirm this?_

 

Those definitely look like the ones I had, especially the "rocket" symbol on the box. The description also says "Voschod". These are the goods. Seems like a good price too. I paid close to $40 for my pair.


----------



## Shizdan

Well I ended up cancelling all the orders I put in and went with Trapper32 (Who I HIGHLY recommend. Hes a great person and really stuck threw all the mess with me! Now I just have to get some Mullard M8161's. Anything else I should look into?


----------



## Shizdan

I am wondering if my tubes are stock for the Little Dot MK III or not.

 Power Tubes say 6H6N-N (last N seems to be like a backwards N) and under that it says 0484

 Driver tubes say 5654 then under it says USA. On the other side it says something in green but its worn off.


----------



## page28

@Shizdan 
 I got some Groove tubes for my MKII from here 

 Made by Russia , Voskhod, Kaluga: (X./1975).


----------



## Viper2005

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *page28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Shizdan 
 I got some Groove tubes for my MKII from here 

 Made by Russia , Voskhod, Kaluga: (X./1975)._

 

Holy smokes 2EUR per pair! thats mega cheap!


----------



## witness

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Viper2005* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy smokes 2EUR per pair! thats mega cheap!_

 

i have just bought three pair of these
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 thats really good opportunity for tube-rolling


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *page28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Shizdan 
 I got some Groove tubes for my MKII from here 

 Made by Russia , Voskhod, Kaluga: (X./1975)._

 

this link is tube p*rn...I don't thank you mister!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ok, I'm getting a Musiland Monitor 02US and I have a cd1k(same 32Ω/104dB drivers as the cd3k)...I crave for an amazing 3D holographic SS w/ thick bass and sexy trebles...what would you guys advise? a cheap Little Dot w/ some russian tubes?

 oh god, I love the sound of that....hopefully it'd sound as good as it looks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the AD797B/LT1028A/Burson v2 opamps got me as close as I could get from tubey, but I think I want the real deal now...no more mr nice guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: huh, apparently the LDI+ has both op-amps and tubes...I'd rather avoid opamps completely


----------



## donunus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this link is tube p*rn...I don't thank you mister!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ok, I'm getting a Musiland Monitor 02US and I have a cd1k(same 32Ω/104dB drivers as the cd3k)...I crave for an amazing 3D holographic SS w/ thick bass and sexy trebles...what would you guys advise? a cheap Little Dot w/ some russian tubes?

 oh god, I love the sound of that....hopefully it'd sound as good as it looks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the AD797B/LT1028A/Burson v2 opamps got me as close as I could get from tubey, but I think I want the real deal now...no more mr nice guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: huh, apparently the LDI+ has both op-amps and tubes...I'd rather avoid opamps completely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have the little dot mk2 and I like it for the fact that it is relatively neutral with the right tubes (currently using the we403b driver and russian 6n6p as power tubes) and not for its tubeyness. It might actually be more neutral sounding than many solid state amps above its price with that configuration. I think its more neutral than my old headfive, c2c, and gilmore lite amps and much cheaper to boot. The gilmore lite have a slightly more refined top end but the mids on the glite is also a little soft IMO which make it sound less neutral overall with my high impedance senns. When using low impedance cans, the ld mk2 starts to get dull sounding and less controlled. 

 Ive heard that if you want an inexpensive amp that sounds tubey, get the musical paradise 301 that skylab reviewed. I havent heard it myself though.


----------



## donunus

double post


----------



## donunus

check this out too leeperry. Some interesting ld 1+ info Little Dot LD1+ Circuit Modifications - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums


----------



## leeperry

well, I tried a Corda Arietta...which is an improved HeadFive, and it was sounding pretty bad.

 so this guy ditched the tubes off his LDI+? weird

 ok thanks for the suggestions, but these head-fi "reviews" based on free samples are always raving(it's hard to diss free stuff), besides the same reviewer said that the Arrieta sounded good...which it does not IME.

 many ppl on french forums laugh at the head-fi reviews, that are always sounding like sales pitch....like that uDAC thread, hahah! how does a crappy pot(the last posts in the thread talk about stereo imbalance at low volume) on a $1 DAC/cheapo USB chip could possibly sound any good? someone compared it to the Monitor 02, and it was a headshot...yet, if you read that shilly thread, it's the 8th world wonder 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 reviewing free stuff biases you...this said, Skylab's test seems engaging...I could possibly bite(hopefully not my tongue again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## donunus

In all fairness the udac does sound better than my old valab and emu0404usb and I aint shillin hehehe


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, I tried a Corda Arietta...which is an improved HeadFive, and it was sounding pretty bad.

 so this guy ditched the tubes off his LDI+? weird

 ok thanks for the suggestions, but these head-fi "reviews" based on free samples are always raving(it's hard to diss free stuff), besides the same reviewer said that the Arrieta sounded good...which it does not IME.

 many ppl on french forums laugh at the head-fi reviews, that are always sounding like sales pitch....like that uDAC thread, hahah! how does a crappy pot(the last posts in the thread talk about stereo imbalance at low volume) on a $1 DAC/cheapo USB chip could possibly sound any good? someone compared it to the Monitor 02, and it was a headshot...yet, if you read that shilly thread, it's the 8th world wonder 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 reviewing free stuff biases you...this said, Skylab's test seems engaging...I could possibly bite(hopefully not my tongue again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

Just a quick note on my end - my personal policy is that I do NOT keep review samples. If the maker does not want to get the sample back, I give it away (which anyone can easily verify by looking through head-fi's For Sale threads), or in some cases, I buy them. I bought the Musical Paradise MP301 actually BEFORE the review. My preference for reviews is to be send a review LOANER, and in many cases this is how it works. But if it doesn't make sense for the manufacturer to pay for shipping an amp back to China, for example, then I give such samples away in the forums here, with the request and hope that the recipient will review it. I will periodically keep a given item on hand for a few months if I want to use it as a reference against other incoming review units, but that's it. Otherwise, I send it back, give it away, or buy it.


----------



## leeperry

yep, sorry for that Skylab...I truly didn't mean it as a personal attack! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but you have to agree that there's a lot of biased reviews on headfi..


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yep, sorry for that Skylab...I truly didn't mean it as a personal attack! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but you have to agree that there's a lot of biased reviews on headfi.._

 

No worries - I did not take it as such - I just wanted to make sure everyone knew where I stand on this topic. There has been so much question in general, and I do write a lot of reviews, that I think it's important for me to state my policy explicitly.

 Regarding the MP301, I had no problem buying it - I still think at $200 it's an incredible bargain.


----------



## donunus

Skylab, 
 I just actually sent a pm to leeperry earlier today letting him check out your impressions on the mp301 since he was looking for a tubey tube amp. I am actually also very interested in hearing that amp for myself one of these days.

 Leeperry, 
 Those supposed groove tubes (6zh1p-ev) sound the most solid state among all the ld mk2 tubes Ive tried


----------



## donunus

If I were to actually rate the tubes Ive heard with my ld mk2... here are my rankings from top to bottom



 1. *WE403B* Most balanced tube Ive had or heard for this amp so far. I believe that the leftover limitations of the amp is probably due to the circuitry itself and not because of this tube.


 2. *Tung-sol* (unknown year/variant) My favorite before the WE just arrived. It is only a little brighter and thinner in the lower mids but other than that, it is more neutral than the other tubes Ive had.


 3. *Mullard EF92* Overall more dynamic and neutral than the stock 6ji. Much more neutral than the clone Mullard EF91 I had but they have less punch and aggressiveness than those. I only found out it was lacking some bass detail and sounded slightly artificially wide when my tung-sols were swapped in while using my new uDac. 


 4. *Voshod 6zh1p-EV* I think thats the right name Anyway, they are punchy but less aggressive than the ef92. The highs are relatively neutral but the bass has a little too much energy in the 100hz up region which made my cans a little boxy sounding with them. I still prefer them overall to the stock tubes though. The sound is more solid state than the stock 6ji so some might actually prefer the 6ji over them.


 5. *CV4010/EF91* Very punchy and dynamic sound but fatiguing because of its aggressiveness in the long term.


 6. *Stock 6ji* they are okay but are no match for my top 3. In direct comparison with the tung-sol I did recently, they are noticeably grainier and also more uncontrolled and sloppy sounding.


 7. Some generic 6ak5 tube I forgot the brand.... At first I thought they were more neutral than the 6ji because of the lack of the 6jis peak somewhere in the highs. I was wrong, these tubes did more wrong to the sound than the 6ji in the long term.


 I listen to all the tubes using various segments from more than a dozen songs with different genres so that I can round up their flaws pretty accurately. Some of the tubes above are rated by memory but I have already taken notes and have written impressions of them before. Their sound relative to my latest tubes are still familiar to me through the comparison of my latest tubes to the stock 6ji and the mullard ef92. The new impressions are done with the tubes paired with the russian 6n6p power tubes.

 The stock chinese 6n6 power tubes make the vocals more forward than the russian 6n6p tubes but are also more grainy and are less refined/slower sounding tubes. I actually remember preferring the stock power tubes with the mullard ef92 driver tubes because it made the mullards more musical. I guess it was just because the Russian power tubes showed the mullards wide sound more which I didn't like so much. It is sort of like a k701 sound added to my hd580s


----------



## leeperry

hah, I've decided to put an end to my opamp rolling fever...but tube rolling doesn't look any more sane 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this one looks quite nice for 100 EUR shipped on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Xiang-Sheng-708B...mZ250578266112

 4 tubes so better crosstalk specs I guess?


----------



## David.M

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KMASCII* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_internethandle (and anyone else asking about the M8161's):
 I'd just gotten the Little Dot DAC_1 and an extra pair of Mullard M8161 (CV4015). Like your DAC, the LD DAC definitely cleans up the sound and introduces some really nice imaging to the MKIII. And the only way of describing it is, as you said, clean. I listen with HD650's and although the default EF95 tubes sounded good, they lacked a bit of the midrange detail that the M8161's have now brought out. The slight brightness, and bassyness, of the default EF95 tubes is also gone.

 I'm not sure what you might call a SS sound. But the EF92's (the Mullards at least) did tame the slight brightness for my ears, and smoothed the highs overall. Conversely, the highs seem to be better defined (better balanced?). On the bass end, the M8161's will bring a little more definition too, but not as full as with the default EF95's. Which for me is a big bonus. All-in-all, the sound is more balanced and nothing seems out of proportion. Now... whether this is SS sounding to you I'm not sure. But the M8161's will be smooth, but more defined and balanced. No frequencies are standing out now and they all seem to compliment each other nicely.

 Keep in mind that what I've described is when listening with the HD650's. The Little Dot DAC_1 has a digital filter setting. And this digital filter setting impacts the characteristics of the sound too. The HD650's and M8161's (EF92's) sound best to me with the LD DAC's digital filter set to sharp.

 Now, I've just plugged in my Grado 325is and compared to the HD650's the Grados sound thin (which they do anyway). For me, the Grado's aren't kind to the lower range frequencies at the best of times. However, when I switch my DAC's digital filter to slow, then the Grados become more listenable and the thinness is lessened. I need to find some good mellow tubes for these Grados. So... I don't believe the HD600's would be as bright as the Grado's. But I think that the HD600's will be more similar.

 The LD DAC is, I believe, very transparent (save the digital filter). Or, if not entirely transparent, at least presents a very, very clean sound. I think that you would enjoy the sound of the Mullard M8161's if those were the EF92's you ended up buying. They bring more midrange detail compared to the default EF95's. And they smooth the highs and lows which actually enhances the detail. I suppose the decay and imaging aren't as hidden.

 Nice tube for the Sennheisers, the Mullard M8161 I mean._

 

i wholeheartedly agree with this post.

 MKIII + Mullard M8161+ LD DAC_1 = terrific combination. 

 They sound excellent with my Beyer's just as well as they do with your Senn's


----------



## erikzen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but you have to agree that there's a lot of biased reviews on headfi.._

 


 A review by nature is biased. Unless you are just reporting bench test statistics, a review is someone's opinion of something. An opinion is not a neutral thing. 

 If you mean that all reviews on Head-Fi tend to be positive I'd agree with that. If the equipment is a loaner from a manufacturer, the reviewer might feel obligated to say something positive, or if they didn't like the piece, to not post a review at all.

 If the reviewer owns the equipment, they probably don't want to go into detail about a product they don't particularly like.

 Negative criticisms tend to be short, one or two sentence posts, while positive reviews tend to be quite lengthy.


----------



## leeperry

well yeah, noone wants to kill the free review samples golden goose


----------



## Shizdan

Just wondering what happens if I have the jumpers set wrong?

 Ex. Using Ef95 Tubes with Ef92 jumper settings


----------



## donunus

Im guessing it will destroy the ef95. If the other way around, you wont hear sound but it probably wont damage anything


----------



## roky10

Enjoying the Brimar cv138 as we speak very nice!


----------



## theryaner

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *page28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Shizdan 
 I got some Groove tubes for my MKII from here 

 Made by Russia , Voskhod, Kaluga: (X./1975)._

 

I got these yesterday and I have about 10 hours on them. I love them! I have 6h30-PI gold pin power tubes and I was using mullard m8100 drivers before. It was good, but I felt it rolled off the sound waaaay too much. It made my grado 325is sound like a sennheiser. Now it retains that grado crunch while keeping the highs in check. Hopefully the bass will improve over time. For the price, these things are amazing. Tubes should never be rated by it's price.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theryaner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got these yesterday and I have about 10 hours on them. I love them! I have 6h30-PI gold pin power tubes and I was using mullard m8100 drivers before. It was good, but I felt it rolled off the sound waaaay too much. It made my grado 325is sound like a sennheiser. Now it retains that grado crunch while keeping the highs in check. Hopefully the bass will improve over time. For the price, these things are amazing. Tubes should never be rated by it's price._

 

interesting. but i really shoudlnt!


----------



## page28

I have been given a box of valves by a neighbour, Mostly TV stuff but there were a couple of Brimar 6AM6 (cv138) (these give really solid Bass), some Zaerix 12au7's , some Marconi ECC804 (6/30l2) and a pair of Mullard E88CC 's both the latter look to be pin compatable with the 6N6 power tubes. Has anyone tried them out ?


----------



## thebasso

i got some RCA Command 5654 blacks and am totlally impressed. the sound stage is impressive as well as ballenced. These tubes rock for rock.
 RCA 5654w sound great as well, very good sound stage.
 I find that 6J1 tubes are the worst and probably the cheapest.
 RCA or Sylvania 6AK5's are for a soft airy sound with all types of music.
 These are with the jumper caps on.
 So far this my contribution to cause.


----------



## thebasso

i got some RCA Command 5654 blacks and am totlally impressed. the sound stage is impressive as well as ballenced. These tubes rock for rock.
 RCA 5654w sound great as well, very good sound stage.
 I find that 6J1 tubes are the worst and probably the cheapest.
 RCA or Sylvania 6AK5's are for a soft airy sound with all types of music.
 These are with the jumper caps on.
 So far this my contribution to cause.


----------



## jjsoviet

Hi. I'm fairly new to tube rolling and I would like my MKIII to have an ever more crisp, dynamic sound. Since I don't know all of the models of vacuum tubes, can anyone recommend me some good pairs? Also, please help me with the installation and jumper settings. Thanks!


----------



## Frank I

I am using Mullard 850 which is smooth detailed with great soundstage. Next up is Mullard CV4010 almost same signature. RCA commands also nice all without using jumpers.


----------



## jjsoviet

What are the jumper switches anyway? Those small things underneath the amp? So... I must switch them all off for new tubes to work? Sorry for my ignorance.


----------



## sobi123

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *page28* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been given a box of valves by a neighbour, Mostly TV stuff but there were a couple of Brimar 6AM6 (cv138) (these give really solid Bass), some Zaerix 12au7's , some Marconi ECC804 (6/30l2) and a pair of Mullard E88CC 's both the latter look to be pin compatable with the 6N6 power tubes. Has anyone tried them out ?_

 

Does E88CC work in MK III ? I've heard some really good things 'bout phillips


----------



## CooLy_oNE

I'm new to the tube...so for different sound signature we only change the driver tube? how about the power tube?

 and how do I know which tube is compatible with my MK 3?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Frank I

The 6H30 Sovtek super tube is a major improvement. I use a matched pair in my MK11 and it was a big improvement.


----------



## CooLy_oNE

any website I could get tubes besides ebay?
   
  any my LD 3 is not bought from davidzhe on ebay...and I email him, and he said that mine is not covered by warranty...
  got it from like ebay seller from hongkong? is there any experience about fake LD 3? I just afraid I got a bad item...


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





cooly_one said:


> any website I could get tubes besides ebay?
> 
> any my LD 3 is not bought from davidzhe on ebay...and I email him, and he said that mine is not covered by warranty...
> got it from like ebay seller from hongkong? is there any experience about fake LD 3? I just afraid I got a bad item...


 

 Jim Mcshane in Chicago has matched tubes great reseller you can get his address from audio asylum web page or Google


----------



## CooLy_oNE

I just got my M8161..question how do I set the jumper? should I take it off? what should I do? the manual only say bridge and I have no idea what it means...
   
  If I do not set it up correctly, will it like explode? or just won't play a sound?
   
   
  Thanks


----------



## PabloDiner

is adjusting the gain necessary with each set of tubes? just ordered a MKIII and am looking into all the information available, cant wait.


----------



## PabloDiner

And on the Little Dot forum page it says they offer an upgrade over the stock tubes to a CV4010 for 35 bones, are these a decent price per sound quality?  I decided to stick with stock so i can hear the differences evolve at a later time instead of starting out with heralded tubes.


----------



## CooLy_oNE

they overchaged for the CV4010 tube...you can buy it from ebay or other seller for 40% cheaper...actually I have 2 spare of CV4010, never used...PM me if you interested


----------



## jjsoviet

I'm still confused as to what good tubes would best suit my system. I would prefer a more detailed, high-impact sound signature without sacrificing the warmth of my LD MKIII. Any recommendations would be really appreciated.
   
  BTW, it may be a stupid question, but which pairs of tubes are the ones you generally swap out? There are the power tubes and the driver tubes, so I guess all of these could be upgraded?


----------



## PabloDiner

Quote: 





jjsoviet said:


> I'm still confused as to what good tubes would best suit my system. I would prefer a more detailed, high-impact sound signature without sacrificing the warmth of my LD MKIII. Any recommendations would be really appreciated.
> 
> BTW, it may be a stupid question, but which pairs of tubes are the ones you generally swap out? There are the power tubes and the driver tubes, so I guess all of these could be upgraded?


 

 I have also been doing a lot of reading in the last few days as i just ordered a MKIII, and from what i understand the larger power tubes are generally a lot more complicated to swap out, dealing with resistance. While the driver tubes (smaller ones obviously) if they are compatible with the MKIII (including the EF92, CV131, WE403A/B, GE5654, M8100, CV4010, EF95, 6JI as well as all equivalents) can be swapped right out with or without using the bridges for specific tubes. So to answer your question i suppose yes they can all be upgraded, but the screwing with the Power tubes without knowing what your doing could potentially harm the amp


----------



## jjsoviet

I see. What would be the perfect driver tubes that match my criteria for sound quality without me having to change any settings? I've read that some tubes need some switches changed which I fear I might screw up. Thank you in advance.


----------



## morfic

Quote: 





pablodiner said:


> is adjusting the gain necessary with each set of tubes? just ordered a MKIII and am looking into all the information available, cant wait.


 

 No.


----------



## Max F

May I make a suggestion.  All of these recent questions have been asked and answered in this thread.  Read it!  It contains a wealth of knowledge!  Also you can click on "search this thread" for specific questions.


----------



## jjsoviet

Quote: 





max f said:


> May I make a suggestion.  All of these recent questions have been asked and answered in this thread.  Read it!  It contains a wealth of knowledge!  Also you can click on "search this thread" for specific questions.


 
   
  Yeah, I'll try digging deeper. It's just that there are so many tube options (Mullard, Sovtek, etc.) that I get confused as to what I might consider getting.


----------



## sterob

Hi, i just got the LD MKIII sound good. However  Did there anyone encounter the sound distortion (sometime  no sound at all) on the left side of  the headphone  with a certain track and at certain part of the song ?  So far i go t3  songs  which make the sound distorted ranging from  ballad to rock.
  i never get the problem before so i assume problem lie in the LD MKIII
   
  my set up: Winamp (flac) / Styleaudio HD1V / LD MKIII / HD 600


----------



## golgi

I've had the MKIII since it was first released and been very happy with it overall.  I've gotten various driver tubes for it and have settled on which ones I like best out of the ones I tried. 
   
  Lately I've been getting curious about the power tube upgrade to Sovtek 6H30-Pi tubes.  I'm pretty sure my amp is the version 1.  I'm good with a soldering iron and have a fellow audiophile friend that is an electrical engineer who can help me. He's helped me to do mods to my speaker crossovers already.  I'd like to mod my MKIII so it can take these upgraded power tubes.  I've searched on this site as well as the little tube forum but have not found any definitive information about how to mod them for this upgrade.  Does anyone have photos, diagrams, and/or instructions that show the mod?


----------



## JoeyO.

Here's my inventory and comments for each...
   
Headphones:
  Sennheiser HD650
   
Albums tested:
  Incubus - Morning View
  Norah Jones - Come Away With Me
  Lisa Hannigan - Sea Sew
  Miley Cyrus - "Party in the U.S.A"
  New Found Glory - Not Without A Fight
   
*Stock GE 5654:* Solid tubes with decent coverage of the whole frequency spectrum without being muddy in the lows.  The highs can get a little dirty and razor sharp when the amp is pushed though.  Soundstage is great but was one-upped by the WE 403b's.  They are very forward sounding and I couldn't listen to them at high-levels due to the slight harshness of the punch-in-the-face sound.  Overall, they definitely introduced me to the warmth and feel of the tube sound and were still quite enjoyable for "passive" listening (meaning: music just to have on while you're doing something).
   
*Western Electric 403b:*  I got these from a fellow Head-Fi'er and I was pleasantly surprised with their characteristics.  Smooth highs, excellent mids, and a spacious and punchy-sounding bass.  The 403b's seem to take the bass and open it a tiny bit through the stereo image rather than having a solid thump in the center of your head.  However, the extension and punch of the bass is _quite_ satisying.  I'd say the only (minor) shortcoming is having a thicker sound in the low-mids, but I didn't mind that.  I admit to putting on Miley Cyrus'  "Party In The U.S.A."  to get my read of the power of the bass and I was absolutely floored on their extension during the bass-kicker hits.  My head literally vibrated!  Excellent feeling!  The soundstage is my favorite part of this tube.  Sounds panned hard left and hard right are.. well.. HARD left and HARD right, reaching to the furthest placement I've yet to hear.  Meanwhile, the seperation of each instrument was clear and could be very well pointed out in it's exact spot.  As a result of this, the vocal pocket is stellar!  Perfect space to leave the vocal completely uncrowded and defined.  The depth is also impressive and a great effect for those who love to inject themselves in the room of the performance.   Well-worth the money!
   
*6J1P-EV:  *These are the equivalent of the much-coveted 6Zh1P-EV's.. or so I've read.  I popped them in and even before a proper break-in period did I fall in love with these tubes!  Every frequency is excellently presented.  The bass is solid, great extension, and no bloated texture at all. The mids are incredibley accurate and the highs are very smooth.  I absolutely love the clarity of these tubes!  Soundstage is great and very detailed.  Excellent tube and they're quite friendly on the wallet!  _The dynamics and punch they provide is very addictive!_
   
  I hoped that helped any potential tube rollers!


----------



## David.M

So i recently purchased the EF91- Mullard M8083 (matched blue glass).  I was very happy with the ef92-m8161 for the past 4 months, but decided to tube roll for fun sakes. It was only $20 shipped, so i decided to purchase them.
   
  15 hours burned in so far and these babies sound wonderful.  I thought they were going to light up blue because of the blue glass, but it's only that brief second bright sparkle when you turn the amp on.  They also have more light coating on the bulb, making it seem more orange[ish] with better lighting than the m8161.
   
   
  They sounded very very airy within the first hour, but now the air became more condense and instrument separation has never sounded this good on my beyer DT990/600.  It sounds like I'm in a concert hall or something. The mids aren't as warm/pin-point sounding like they were on the m8161, but they are very detailed/neutral/ and balanced. But soundstage is just unbelievable on the m8083. Once i felt the prescence of its air, there's no going back to anything else 
   
  I hope these puppies get better with more burn in. Really awesome tubes.


----------



## Max F

Yeah, all the EF91 tubes sound pretty airy which can be fun.  Plus they look cool when they light up!


----------



## silverfox

Hi all, been a long time since I was about, but having some issues with the power tubes on my Little Dot MKIII and am attempting to source a direct replacement in the UK. Can anyone help?
   
  Ebay is useless for the stock 6H6PI and 6H60Pi Gold etc, and am struggling to find a suitable swap and more importantly, availability and stock!
   
  Can anyone advise?


----------



## mordy

I have also been looking for the really high end power tubes 6H30P-DR, but they are too expensive, running $200 or more for a pair.
  Recently came across a power tube labeled 6N6P-IR for around $40/pair +shipping from Russia.
  Does anybody have any experience using these tubes in the Little Dot MkIII?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mordy said:


> I have also been looking for the really high end power tubes 6H30P-DR, but they are too expensive, running $200 or more for a pair.
> Recently came across a power tube labeled 6N6P-IR for around $40/pair +shipping from Russia.
> Does anybody have any experience using these tubes in the Little Dot MkIII?


 

 jimmcshane@prodigy.net in Chicago has the 6H30 Super tube for 50.00 matched new pairs. Best tube dealer I ever bought from and is a regular over at audio asylum. He also sells the 6n6P. I bought 8 souz factory 6n6p on ebasy for 29.00 shipped. I recommend the 6H630 if you want your amp to another level.


----------



## mordy

Thanks for the info.
  Jim has the 6H30 tubes which are fine, but they are not the DR version, which is very rare and of higher quality, and needless to say, much more expensive.


----------



## Max F

I have the 6N6P-I which indicate that they are setup to handle pulse operations (i.e., digital). I think the tube runs a little hotter and may have a longer life but that's the only difference from the standard tube, i believe.  I think the -IR designation means that its a military grade.  Don't quote me on that though .
  
  Quote: 





mordy said:


> I have also been looking for the really high end power tubes 6H30P-DR, but they are too expensive, running $200 or more for a pair.
> Recently came across a power tube labeled 6N6P-IR for around $40/pair +shipping from Russia.
> Does anybody have any experience using these tubes in the Little Dot MkIII?


----------



## x3dnd3x

Edited .
   
  Found my answer .


----------



## x3dnd3x

What's the difference between the normal 6H30 and DR version ? Am planning to get the LD MKIII soon so searching around for tubes . I've read around so far that m8161s and 6H30-DR is a very gd combination ? And if i were to change the stock tubes , do i need to buy 2 m8161 or 1 m8161 and another other tube will do ? 
  
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> jimmcshane@prodigy.net in Chicago has the 6H30 Super tube for 50.00 matched new pairs. Best tube dealer I ever bought from and is a regular over at audio asylum. He also sells the 6n6P. I bought 8 souz factory 6n6p on ebasy for 29.00 shipped. I recommend the 6H630 if you want your amp to another level.


----------



## mordy

My advice is to first break in and use the original tubes that come with the Little Dot MkIII. The driver tubes are GE5654, and the power tubes 6H6Pi. These are quite good, and you may be happy with this sound.
  From what I understand, the biggest impact on sound come from the driver tubes, with the power tubes only accounting for about 15% of the total improvement from stock.
  David recommends Mullard M8100/CV4010 (same tube in military or civilian use designation) as driver tube upgrades.
  He also recommends the 6H30P-DR super tube as a power tube upgrade. The DR designation means a very high grade extra long life tube for military use, but these tubes are very rare and very expensive - around $200/pair or more.
  Have not tried the 8100 yet, but a very nice and very inexpensive great upgrade for the GE5654 is a Russian tube 6J1P-EV which is the same as 6Zh1P-EV. You can find it on E-Bay for around $2 each. These driver tubes will increase the soundstage,  clarity and definition of the music, and give a little faster attack and punch in the bass. Another benefit of this tube is that it was made for rugged military use and is rated for 5000 hours of use.
  The expensive power tubes are supposed to give you more heft and definition in the bass, but I have not heard them myself, and unless I find a bargain, they are out for me.
  And don't forget the $8 rule: No tube should cost more than $8, or if you want to stretch it, $8 for a pair. Just be patient, and the bargains will appear on E-Bay.
  Part of the fun of a tube amp is the tube rolling, and experimenting with different tubes for different sound.


----------



## Max F

IMO, if you are going to spend $200 for power tubes you might as well buy a better amp like a Woo.


----------



## golgi

Got some Amperex Bugle Boy EF91's today.  I got them for a low price and I have to say I'm really impressed.  My other favorite tubes so far are Amperex EF92's.  I'm not sure yet which I like better.  I think both of these tube sets are made by Mullard for Amperex.


----------



## mordy

Tried a pair of Mullard EF91 tubes. Moving the jumpers made me plenty nervous, but I managed without dropping the little jumpers inside the unit.
  At first I really enjoyed the added presence in the bass and the clarity of the soundstage, but protracted listening led me to believe that these tubes are too aggressive and in the face, and ultimately a little bit rough and tiring to listen to.
  Then I got a pair of Russian 6Sh1P-EV tubes from 1975. These were cheap, and they look very sturdy - they survived shipping from Hungary to the US wrapped in two napkins and put in a small bubble wrap envelope!
  Anyhow, managed to switch back the jumpers without incident. The Russian tubes sounded good right away, and have a smooth detailed sound across the entire spectrum, with great bass extension and sound stage. I like these better than the original GE5654 tubes because of better bass and detail across the range. And of course the satisfaction of getting a bargain!
  Have used them around 35 hours by now, and they are getting better, and just sound right.
  Looking for two Mullard M8100/CV4010 to see what David likes, but haven't found these tubes yet conforming to the $8 rule.....
  Man, this tube rolling is fun!


----------



## golgi

I've been listening to the new tubes for a couple days now and I'm not finding any brightness with these EF91's.  Mordy, I'd be curious to know your headphones and other equipment.  You may be getting brightness from elsewhere.


----------



## x3dnd3x

Hello . I've recently just purchase and also received my LDMKIII . I have a question in which i hope some of you could help .
   
  1) I'm currently using Xonar Essence STX as my DAC . How do i connect the LDMKIII to it ? I tried with the supplied RCA cable feeding it into spdif out but there's no sound .
   
  2) I read around people saying that some tubes required jumpers and jumpers are included in the package but how do they look like ? Are they those small squarish pins packed together with the RCA cable ?
   
  Thanks .


----------



## warbaque

Quote: 





x3dnd3x said:


> Hello . I've recently just purchase and also received my LDMKIII . I have a question in which i hope some of you could help .
> 
> 1) I'm currently using Xonar Essence STX as my DAC . How do i connect the LDMKIII to it ? I tried with the supplied RCA cable feeding it into spdif out but there's no sound .
> 
> ...


 
  I have no experience with LDMKIII, but usually jumpers are small squarish pins you described:

  Hopefully this helps


----------



## erikzen

Been a while since I sold my LD but if I recall correctly the jumpers are for use with different tubes, but I also thought that there were now switches instead of the little jumper caps, so they aren't really necessary.  What tubes are you using?  If you don't roll tubes you don't have to worry about them and then only if you roll EF91, EF92  tubes, if I remember correctly.
   
  As for your DAC you can't take the SPDIF out and run it into your amp.  That's a digital signal and your amp needs an analog signal.  You need to send the analog output from your DAC into the amp.


----------



## mordy

If you read the manual for the Little Dot MkIII it will tell you where the jumpers are. Underneath the amp towards the front are two oval holes.
  Looking inside (it is best to use good light or a flashlight) you can see three little pins sticking up, with the jumper covering two of the pins. On one side it says EF95 and on the other side EF92. The little jumper looks like the little blue thing in the picture two posts ago. For EF95 tubes it covers pins #1 and 2, and for EF92 it covers pins #2 and 3.
  The unit comes factory set for EF95 tubes. If you want to try tubes from the EF92 family you have to move the position of the two jumpers. Take a thin needle nose pliers and grab the jumper at the ends (not in the middle, because not using the length of the oval opening will not allow you to open the pliers big enough) and pull out gently. Then carefully push the two jumpers (one for each channel) onto pins #2 and 3.
  It is a little delicate, and you cannot use any force since the components are fragile. Also remember to disconnect the amp and let it sit for 10 minutes before attempting any changes (in order for the capacitors to discharge).
  I was worried about dropping the jumper inside the unit, but everything went well. Anyhow, I did not like the EF91/92 tubes, and I switched back the jumpers.
  As far as I am concerned the experience was a little like going to the dentist, so I will try to avoid it again if I can and stick with EF92 types of tubes.
  However, it did occur to me that somebody could make an inexpensive little gizmo similar to an automotive fuse puller that locks the jumper in it's grip, and then you don't have to worry about dropping it or losing it.


----------



## karn1911

My power tubes keep burning out after a few months. I've heard this may be an issue with AC voltage supply. Here in Australia we have 240V and the amp is designed for 220V. I've heard that with this amplifier there might be an issue with that little bit of extra voltage stressing the power tubes.
  Is this the issue I am having?
  If so how can I fix it?


----------



## Max F

Contact David at Little Dot.  Look up their forum address.


----------



## cjpearson

I just bought some EF95/6AK5 at the recommendation of a poster on this thread. Sound great! Smoothed the vocals, opened the mids, I really see the effect tubes can have on an already great amp


----------



## mordy

Part of the fun with the MarkIII is how easy it is to change tubes and do some tube rolling. I am experimenting with different tubes, all the while trying to keep to the $8.00 rule - no tube should cost more than that, and preferably two for that price.
  The best combination I found so far is to stick with the stock power tubes and use Russian driver tubes called 6Sh1P-EV. These I bought on E-Bay . The price was right, and they sounded good right away, and even better after burn-in.
  I do not have the Mullard EF95 tubes yet, but this Russian tube is really good. It adds a whole new dimension to the sound. The bass is much stronger and has much more energy, and the entire sound spectrum  becomes fleshed out with a full bodied smooth sound. (Another name for this tube is 6J1P-EV)
  I have compared them to the stock GE5654, Mullard EF91 and Western Electric 403A, and these Russkies win hands down.


----------



## Tom W

I was worried about mine as my house voltage is usually 127 volts (or more).
   
  Purchased one of these....

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=67
  
  It has a switch on the back for outputting 110, 120, or 127 volt regardless of incoming voltage and was around $40 (US). Anything like this available in Australia?
   
  Quote: 





karn1911 said:


> My power tubes keep burning out after a few months. I've heard this may be an issue with AC voltage supply. Here in Australia we have 240V and the amp is designed for 220V. I've heard that with this amplifier there might be an issue with that little bit of extra voltage stressing the power tubes.
> Is this the issue I am having?
> If so how can I fix it?


----------



## AuxIn

hello,
  I´m new to tubeamps (and this forum).
  I wonder if it´s really SO important to turn off the amp when connecting anything?
  I.e. changing the source ... or plug in/off the cans.
  I guess switching off and on won´t be that good either?
  Before the MKIII i had (and still have) a small BravoV2 (mini tubeamp).
  I always change or connect source and phones during power on and it´s still working fine ...well, let´s say it works - compared to the mkIII


----------



## korpijaakko

How do I recognize a large/full shield M8161? Are there any on Ebay right now?


----------



## morfic

small:   http://cgi.ebay.com/CV4015-M8161-EF92-9D6-MULLARD-QDD-TUBE-VALVE-NOS-E-PAIR-/390210592827?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item5ada5d203b
   
  large:    http://cgi.ebay.com/Mullard-M8161-EF92-CV4015-Little-Dot-Amplifier-Tube-/160387420527?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2557d5d16f
   
  but they both violate the $8/tube max rule we should all adhere to.


----------



## AuxIn

I found these here as the cheapest,
  but the guy don´t tell me if he ships  to germany
  http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390168415751&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## korpijaakko

Much obliged, sir. My presumption was correct after all. I'll wait for a NOS matched pair to pop up.
  
  Quote: 





morfic said:


> small:   http://cgi.ebay.com/CV4015-M8161-EF92-9D6-MULLARD-QDD-TUBE-VALVE-NOS-E-PAIR-/390210592827?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item5ada5d203b
> 
> large:    http://cgi.ebay.com/Mullard-M8161-EF92-CV4015-Little-Dot-Amplifier-Tube-/160387420527?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2557d5d16f
> 
> but they both violate the $8/tube max rule we should all adhere to.


----------



## morfic

Matched is code for "you pay me way more money than this old crap is worth, but i take your $$ anyways, thanks bro" for the high $$ you could afford a few fun tubes and realize, while you can hear differences from tube type and brand to the next, you will never notice any imbalance, since they are not there. looked at too many sets w/o an imbalance to go out and pay $40 for 2 when i can buy a whole box full of fun for less.
  Not my opinion, a fact. But since expensive == good in all audio questions, this money machine will never dry out for them.


----------



## korpijaakko

So what you're saying is that these tubes are sort of "pre-matched" at the factory meaning they were manufactured within close tolerances.
  I personally don't mind paying a couple of extra dollars for a service that guarantees their health & good match. I wouldn't call these tubes old crap but you're right about the overpricing, $20/piece is probably too much.


----------



## Max F

Most of my driver tubes are slightly inbalanced for each pair.
   
  I don't mind.  I usually pick the one that's slightly stronger for my right ear - since this ear hears slightly less that the left.
   
  I mark the tube boxes either R or L.


----------



## morfic

Quote: 





korpijaakko said:


> So what you're saying is that these tubes are sort of "pre-matched" at the factory meaning they were manufactured within close tolerances.
> I personally don't mind paying a couple of extra dollars for a service that guarantees their health & good match. I wouldn't call these tubes old crap but you're right about the overpricing, $20/piece is probably too much.


 

 Pretty much what i meant.
  If someone pulled tubes and gave me used ones tested, that'd be nice, to know used but still got life, not if they are  "matched"


----------



## mordy

Found out from David of Little Dot that you can mix two tubes from the same family, i.e. EF92 tubes from different brands. Instead of waiting 10-15 minutes after you shut off the amp so that the capacitors can discharge, I put in two different tubes and play a mono recording. Then I can A/B the tubes just by turning the balance knob right or left. Found this an easy way to hear differences between tubes. Anybody else tried this method?
   
  I agree with the posts that the tubes should not cost too much ($8.00 rule), and that there definitively is a myth that more expensive is better. A proof of this myth is that the tubes that are priced higher on E-Bay sell better than the medium priced ones of the same variety. (To check it out, go on E-Bay and look up something you are interested in. Then find on the left a check box for Completed Listings. Click on it, and you can see in green the dollar amounts of the items that sold. This gives you a good idea of the current market price. The numbers in red will show what did not sell - also useful info at times.)


----------



## luisev

Quote: 





mordy said:


> Found out from David of Little Dot that you can mix two tubes from the same family, i.e. EF92 tubes from different brands. Instead of waiting 10-15 minutes after you shut off the amp so that the capacitors can discharge, I put in two different tubes and play a mono recording. Then I can A/B the tubes just by turning the balance knob right or left. Found this an easy way to hear differences between tubes. Anybody else tried this method?


 
   
  That's an interesting idea... thanks for the info...


----------



## korpijaakko

Quote: 





luisev said:


> That's an interesting idea... thanks for the info...


 

 I liked this too.


----------



## Max F

Good stuff mordy!  Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Sjonnie

Wow, I replaced my stock driver tubes with the EF95 CV4010.
And I must say, wow, I can hear the difference already. Better mids, the overall sound is also a bit different, which I like (could use a change after a year with the stock).
   
I was thinking about upgrading my amp, but playing around with tubes is much more satisfying, cheaper and fun! I am now loving the LD MKIII even more.
   
I bet after some more usage (burnin?) the tubes will sound even better, tuberolling opened a whole new world for my amp, it's so damn easy (especially with this great thread). Simply amazing.
   
  edit: Ok, I dont like the sound after a few days of use, I guess I was just surprised that I got a difference sound, that's all. Bass not tight enough and the overall sound is too airy. I switched back to the stock tubes.


----------



## luisev

What brand tubes?


----------



## mordy

Just bought the CV4010 tubes which should be made by Mullard. The ones I have come in a plain white box labeled Valve Electronic CV4010 5654/6AK5W/6096 SDA.
  The tube itself has the four different model designations as above plus the letters (in white) SD-D-SDA. Underneath it says in grey letters LD4.
  Would appreciate it if somebody can decode the letter designations and the date code. (Factory, country of origin, date of manufacture)


----------



## Frank I

I have two Mullard CV 4010 new in box I have no use for as I sold my Little Dot MK11 they are unused and Iw ill sell the pair for 25.00 shipped. Anyone interested PM me


----------



## hollabackitsobi

Is there anywhere you can buy more of the stock tubes? I'm perfectly fine with their sound and would just like a pair of backups for the power/driver tubes in case anything should happen.


----------



## mordy

The stock driver tubes are GE5654. These are not expensive and with a little patience you will find them for sale on E-Bay. Look for 6AK5 tubes made by GE that are also called 5654.
  The stock power tubes are Russian 6H6Pi tubes which you can find on E-Bay as well (but you may have to search under a different designation), and also well priced. Other designations for the same tube is 6N6Pi, ECC99 and E182CC. Make sure the last digit is i, (which looks like a reversed N in the Russian alphabet). This means that the tube is optimized for a pulsed mode of operation. I ordered $2 6N6P tubes from Eastern Europe (without the i designation) and felt that they were not as good in the bass extension.
  There are people out there who sell Little Dot tubes for $40-50/pair, but just have patience and you will find them for under $8 each.
  I also believe that David at Little Dot can sell you a set of four tubes for the MkIII for $35 including shipping.
  After some experimenting I have come to the conclusion that matched sets of tubes aren't that important. Two of the same designation and brand will sound fine, even if one was made a couple of years after the other one.
  Here is a current offering on E-Bay of the GE5654 for $11.05 for two tubes (incl shipping):
  http://cgi.ebay.com/VACUUM-TUBE-5654W-GE-JAN-NOS-CROSS-6AK5-/370260509484?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item56353f032c
   
  And a current offering for the 6N6Pi for $21 for four from Ukraine (incl shipping):
  http://cgi.ebay.com/6N6P-I-ECC99-E182CC-Double-Triode-Lot-4-NIB-/190438306731?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c5701f3ab
   
  Both these guys have 100% positive feedback and thousands of sales, so they should be fine to deal with.
   
  Hope I was of some help.


----------



## hollabackitsobi

Thanks a lot! Ordering directly from David sounds like the best option to me, so I'll message him on eBay and see what he says.


----------



## mordy

Sounds good - let me know how things work out.


----------



## julius67

Hi Everyone,
   
  Does anybody have some experience with Valvo EF91 in MKIII? I have just bought in a local auction a pair at $5.
  Thanks.
   
  Julius


----------



## mordy

I tried a pair of Mullard EF91 which may be similar to the Valvo EF91 and found them very strong in the bass but ultimately rough sounding and grating, lacking the sweetness of other tubes.


----------



## JKWiig

Got my LD MKIII today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I love it..... After burn in this will be super!! Already bought tubes for rolling.
   
*JAN 5654W 6AK5 Vacuum Tube Sylvania USA - NOS - Black Plate 'O' Getter Pentode*
*JRP Raytheon 5654 6AK5W 6AK5 SHARP CUT OFF PENTODE -1952-*
*M8100 Mullard EF95 Matched Pair Mil-Spec*
   
*and some 6N6P-I power tubes just in case.. I am gonna run the system trough a Line Interactive UPS, so I hope I will get some more life out of the tubes, But you never know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*


----------



## mordy

You got some nice tubes there already, but the stock GE5654 are not bad at all, so I suggest you start with them.
  I have the Raytheon 6AK5 from 1945; they are quite nice, and I like them. Very detailed, slightly up in the treble, and good but not forceful bass.
  I also have the Mullard CV4010 which is the same as the M8100. These are perhaps the nicest driver tubes for the MkIII with a sweet midrange, shimmering highs, and strong but not exaggerated bass.
  Bought some 6N6P tubes (not 6N6P-I) which were cheap, but thought the stock tubes delivered more punch in the bass. According to David of Little Dot, the 6H30Pi-DR power tubes would be better, but they cost $100-200/pair, and I can't justify the cost in relation to the amp. In addition, the power tubes are said to account for only 15-20% of the sound of the amp.
  I am curious if you found bargains in the tubes you bought since you are in a different part of the world and may have access to different sources than here in the US.
  Happy listening!


----------



## JKWiig

I really do not have any other sources than eBay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So actually shipping and prices are about the same as in the US.. I have updatet my list of tubes I have bought..
   
  Since I have revision 2.0 of the LDMKIII i ordered 2 Sovtek 6H30Pi-EB Cryoset (Supposedly cryogenigal frozen for 24 hours to tighten glass and metal) for power. $93 incl shipping.
   
  M8161 Mullard EF92 matched                  $40 incl shipping
  6J1P-EV Gold-Platinum Grid matched (?)  $18 incl shipping
  Sylvania 5654W Black Plate O Getter       $24 incl shipping
  Raytheon JRP 5654 -1952-                       $34 incl shipping
  M8100 Mullard EF95 Mil-Spec                  $20 incl shipping
   
  Total tube spendage (is that even a word?) $229
   
   
  So now my wallet is crying, and so am I... I have to say I am really impulsive sometimes, and that is not a good thing *ha*
   
  I have blown the $8 a tube rule out of the water..
   
   
  I have to say I absolutely LOVE the LDMKIII as a pre-amp aswell


----------



## mordy

Please let me know if there is a difference or improvement with the Sovtek 6H30Pi-EB cryogenic tubes. I usually break in the tubes letting them play 100 hours, but they probably stabilize after 30-40 hours.
  The more tubes I try, the better the MkIII sounds, and I like almost everything I try.


----------



## julius67

After some odyssey rolling through some driver tube options (stock, 6Zh1p-EV, Siemens 6AK5W, Miniwatt EF91) finally I have settled down with the last one the Miniwatt branded (but probably same as Mullard with blue smoked glass) EF91s. They're providing me with just the right amount of plushness to tame my enthusiastic Densen Beat B-400+ CD player.
   
  Now I came to the point to consider the rolling of the power tubes, however I'm quite happy actually with the sound as it is and I'm not sure if it worth to spend another amount comparable to the price of the amplifier itself.
   
  Julius


----------



## JKWiig

Just had the Mullard 8161 in for about 50 hours. They sound horrible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Mullard M8100 is the clear winners until now... Havent received the Cryotek powertubes yet though. Will post back when I get them..
   
  My initial impression of the 8161 is a "muted" sound all over the register. Mids are very recessed, bass is acceptable but highs are fatiguing after just a couple of hours. (And yes I changed jumper spaces)
  The M8100 are miiiiiiles ahead with a sumptious sound all across the register. Bass could be more prominent. Mids and highs are very pleasing. Tubes for enjoyment!!
   
   
  Have not rolled my others yet.. But I will soon.. Tubes in my opinion is a matter of personal taste and not a standard to be followed. Tips and hints about good tubes are usefull but not a guide!
   
   
  EDIT: I mainly listen to female vocalists like Zaz, Aimee Mann, Azure Ray, Liz Phair, Fiona Apple, Lisa Loeb, Lisa Ekdahl, Rachael Sage, Racel Yamagata, Sia, Feist e.t.c Lots of Chillout (Electronica) Some metal if I feel like it. Classical, Jazz, Blues... All rounder really..


----------



## jyc327

Quote: 





x3dnd3x said:


> What's the difference between the normal 6H30 and DR version ? Am planning to get the LD MKIII soon so searching around for tubes . I've read around so far that m8161s and 6H30-DR is a very gd combination ? And if i were to change the stock tubes , do i need to buy 2 m8161 or 1 m8161 and another other tube will do ?


 

 x3dnd3x,
   
  the 6h30p/pi are like the little brothers of the DR version. the DR version is what we call "mil-spec" tubes i suppose. since they are rated for  higher reliability and extra long life. they are rare to say the least, since i've only found my 2 pairs from turkey/Ukraine/Bulgaria and the like. seems like people there are use diggin them out of like old ruins or something. since in the state and canada its next to none or like 300+ for a pair.
   
  the 6h30 maybe use if your MK III is rev 2. i am using them now on my mk iv se, also tried the 6h6n/6n6p whatever they call them on the IV SE...they run hotter since from what I know MK III rev 2 and mk iv pushes the original 6h6 power tubes harder. i used them for like 20 minutes its a LOT hotter than when i had them in the MK III rev 1.
   
  have fun with tube rollin, too many to try since everyone is different + the headphone combos really kills u.


----------



## jyc327

Quote: 





mordy said:


> Found out from David of Little Dot that you can mix two tubes from the same family, i.e. EF92 tubes from different brands. Instead of waiting 10-15 minutes after you shut off the amp so that the capacitors can discharge, I put in two different tubes and play a mono recording. Then I can A/B the tubes just by turning the balance knob right or left. Found this an easy way to hear differences between tubes. Anybody else tried this method?
> 
> I agree with the posts that the tubes should not cost too much ($8.00 rule), and that there definitively is a myth that more expensive is better. A proof of this myth is that the tubes that are priced higher on E-Bay sell better than the medium priced ones of the same variety. (To check it out, go on E-Bay and look up something you are interested in. Then find on the left a check box for Completed Listings. Click on it, and you can see in green the dollar amounts of the items that sold. This gives you a good idea of the current market price. The numbers in red will show what did not sell - also useful info at times.)


 

 mordy, i'd like to try what you suggested. the prob i have encountered is the fact that virtually all the music i have on hand is stereo, which means that the left and right channel plays different tones as per the song  per artist. either i find mono tracks and mirror them or somehow find a way to direct all of the stereo track to either the left or right channel without removing the opposite channel's content. hmmmmm


----------



## mordy

Since I like old 20's jazz I do not have any problem finding mono recordings. However, as you point out, if you could direct the right or left channel from the Little Dot so that you can hear the same sound from both head phones, it would be easier to compare. I am sure that this can be done, but I have abandoned this idea for the following reasons:
  Truth is that I have resorted to changing the sets of tubes, shutting off the Little Dot first, and waiting a while in between changes. Amazingly enough there is a little bit of a sound stage even with old mono recordings.  Certainly, in comparing how different tubes sound with good stereo recordings, I have come to the realization that the width and depth of the sound stage and the overall balance of how the frequencies are reproduced are also very important in enjoying the music. (Sometimes you hit the jackpot with a really good recording and you can hear the height as well!)
  In conclusion, the timbre and the tonality of a tube is not enough to really decide what you like. You also need the overall balance of low, mid and upper frequencies and the sound stage width and depth to make a decision, and for this you need the pair of tubes. In addition, I think that the sound stage is limited with a number of headphones, so you may need to play through your speakers as well.
  I am in the process of going through some 6-7 sets of tubes that I have and trying to note the differences between them. Every tube sounds a little different; some are stronger in the bass, some have a wider sound stage, some have better highs. Some tubes space out the instruments/musicians better than others for superior pinpoint imaging. Everybody has a different taste, but I think that you could reach a consensus which tubes are the best sounding overall. 
  However, the MarkIII  is such a nice piece of equipment that almost anything sounds good with it!


----------



## JKWiig

Quote: 





jyc327 said:


> mordy, i'd like to try what you suggested. the prob i have encountered is the fact that virtually all the music i have on hand is stereo, which means that the left and right channel plays different tones as per the song  per artist. either i find mono tracks and mirror them or somehow find a way to direct all of the stereo track to either the left or right channel without removing the opposite channel's content. hmmmmm


 
   
  If you use Foobar jyc327 there is an option under file -> Preferences -> Playback -> DSP Manager -> Downmix Channels to mono.. Then you can experiment


----------



## TheMaestro335

Hello All,
  It has been a while since I posted on this thread. I have a Mk III and have only been using EF95 tube types. I have tried all brands, but my favorite have been the Tung sol Mil-Spec 6AK5 5654. Just a great all around sound with Deep and Wide soundstage. A lot of separation in the middle of the stage. I finally got around to changing the jumpers to try out some Mullard 8161s. I have only had these things running for about 18hrs, but I am not impressed at all with them. They are very harsh to the ear, and it seems like the middle of the sound stage is to close to the listener (way up front in the mix)? Has anybody else experienced this from them. I know I have only had these things for a couple of days and they need more burn in time. I am going to give these things 40hrs.


----------



## jyc327

i do use foobar i didn't know that. thanks. maesto, what cans u using? the ef95 i find the tungsol are very nice or the mullard cv4010, i dont like the rca. since they give too much bass for me. I have the GE 5654w (non 5stars) they are close to the tungsol. the mullard ef92 and 91 i have seems good with my shure sh840, but with the akg k702 the highs are a tad harsh. i think they k702 needs more time breakin in tho so i got from another head-fier who's apparently only used it for like 5 hrs.
   
  well i had the MK III rev, spirit is enjoying them with upgrade tubes in Norway. i have the mk IV se now. the 6h6 power from the III gets HOT on the unit so i have to wait a lot longer to swap if i need. yes i have the 6h30pi as well but i wanted to know if they IVse makes diff if i use the same power tubes from the III. am WAITING anxiously for my pairs of 6h30pi-dr... should be here on friday.
   
  the 8161 pushes the bass further back from what i remember. i know that vocals are very much so like FRONT row. that being said I'm just too impatient to burn them in lol. so my mullard ef91/92 only have 40-50 hrs so i need to wait to see. if you are lucky enf to have the rev2 of the MK III try the 6h30. they help to enhance the sound. maybe its just the stupid iv se that's playin with me on the 6h6. i need like a month b4 i can really comment.
   
  hmmm will be trying that foobar option out just to see if my tubes are funny.
   
  oh anyone looking for 6ak5 tubes? bought too many. i have xtra pair of tungsol, rogers (phillips really), maybe i have them raytheon's as well.


----------



## TheMaestro335

Hello,
  Thanks for the reply. I am using AKG 701s. I am going to let these things burn in for another20hrs and report back.


----------



## JKWiig

I put the Sovtek tubes in yesterday... No imediate difference in sound maaaaaaybe a little more depth (but that can be placebo for putting $100 tubes in the LD) However. The LD runs quite a bit hotter than usual, even the volume knob gets warm (not uncomfortable so but..) There is no chance of fire, is there? I know tube amps supposed to run hot, but the whole chassi is warm. Definately 10-20 degrees celsius over the stock tubes.. Need to find my temp gun..
   
   
   
  Hre is the results...
   
  SOVTEK 
   
  Front panel :     38.6c : 101.48 ºF
  Chassi :           41.2c : 105.8 ºF
  Sovtek tubes : 140.0c : 284 ºF
  Driver Tubes :    50.0c : 122 ºF
   
   
  STOCK
   
  Front Panel :    33.0c : 91.4 ºF
  Chassi :           34.4c : 93.92 ºF
  Stock Tubes : 131.0c : 267.8 ºF
  Driver Tubes :   51.6c : 124.44 ºF


----------



## jyc327

hmm the stereo to mono downmix is.....hmmm not what i expected. i might need a true mono source. its too bad my technics turntable is missing the balance weight. the downmixed sound is muddled. 

 JK the MK III is suppose to get warm all over, just like when you're in love. LOL mine did that too even with stock tubes. my VI SE doesnt do that as its like twice as wide. also i do notice that the tube sockets are almost flush with the casing, whereas the MK III sits a bit lower. radiant heat transfer? I was told that the sovtek 6h30 that my unit can use some are produced after 1990, of which is suppose to sound worst. lol i never tried the 6h6 sovtek tho. u see i had the MK III for like 1 mth and i jumped to the IV, impulse really. the DRs are sooooo close I can smell them...well its in canPost at sauga. and no i cant really smell the tubes maybe the boxes from like 30 years ago. crumbles in your hands just like a good cookie. will measure my temps when i can get a temp gun.


----------



## jyc327

oh Cr*p, its out on delivery...what speedy service....


----------



## mordy

What's the price of the Tung Sol Tubes?


----------



## TheMaestro335

Quote: 





mordy said:


> What's the price of the Tung Sol Tubes?


 

 Are you referring  to the Tung sol Mil-Spec 6AK5 5654? These are not expensive prob paid about $30 for a pair. I have to say, last night I was so unimpressed by the Mullard 8161s, I yanked them and put another set of Tung sol's in and (WOW) what a difference. Un used Tung Sols and the SQ, became so much better. The thing that really jumps out is the Imaging, very 3D. You can really feel the air around the instruments!


----------



## jyc327

its 20 for the 2, it was originally from my MK III purchase, that owner rolled enf tubes that the lettering if rubbed off save the "tung *ol" from one tube.
   
  where you located? at least the lettering rubs off lol, so they are at least really tubes. was told that some mullards were "remanufactured" with lettering thats perm.


----------



## JKWiig

I also got the "get them out get them ouuuuuut" feeling from the 8161 Mullards. I will get some Tung - Sol`s since I love the "airy 3D feel" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I get that from the M8100 Mullards though...


----------



## TheMaestro335

Quote: 





jkwiig said:


> I also got the "get them out get them ouuuuuut" feeling from the 8161 Mullards. I will get some Tung - Sol`s since I love the "airy 3D feel"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Funny Stuff!,
  Cant wait to here your thoughts on the Tung sols! I have a pair of JHY Hytrons burning in. I will let you know how they are once I give them some burn in.


----------



## julius67

I have just bought a used pair of Mullard E95F at $1 . Actually it sounds quite nice, but the rusty looking of the middle-section box-like part (I don't know the official name) slightly worries me. This part is pure grey in my Siemens 6AK5W for example. Is this a sign of being too old or too heavily used or actually it is quite normal?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## jyc327

Quote: 





julius67 said:


> I have just bought a used pair of Mullard E95F at $1 . Actually it sounds quite nice, but the rusty looking of the middle-section box-like part (I don't know the official name) slightly worries me. This part is pure grey in my Siemens 6AK5W for example. Is this a sign of being too old or too heavily used or actually it is quite normal?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 of all the ones i have even the used ones i got its just grey/black ish never rusty looking. you mean rusty looking as if its reddish in colour on the center barrel/plates? that's a bad sign i think.


----------



## julius67

In fact the plates have fairly evenly and densely distributed black spots on grey background, not reddish at all. The spots are so even that from a certain distance actually it looks almost pure very dark grey. almost black. It just reminded me rust.


----------



## jyc327

ohhhhh like rust....yeah its suppose to be an even coat of blackish grey


----------



## novak

So the power tubes on my Mk. 3 are starting to die on me so I thought I'd go ahead and order a new pair and while I'm at it, upgrade the driver tubes aswell. So far I've been using the stock tubes, but they're a little too light on the lower end and I'd want a pair that offers a little more bass and perhaps a little wider staging aswell. Any recommendations? I'd preferably want to stay under 60€  for everything so nothing too crazy (the cheaper, the better honestly!). I use the LD with my HD 650's, if that matters.


----------



## mordy

I have done a little bit of tube rolling and research. This is still a work in progress, but I am convinced that you can buy excellent tubes for under $8 each (including shipping!), and many times one pair for that price. You have to be patient and follow Ebay postings.
  Since the power tubes only account for some 15% of the sound, I would stay with stock tubes. Here is a link to a current Ebay offer:
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260578750645&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
  You could look for a pair of 6N30P-DR or 6H30Pi-DR tubes. These will be better than stock, but will cost $100-200/pair or more. On the upside, they should last 10,000 hours, but personally I can't see spending so much on a $224 amp.
   
   
  As far as driver tubes are concerned, I have tried 8-9 different ones that were recommended in previous posts on this site. So far I am most impressed by RCA, Sylvania and Mullard tubes. Look on Ebay for 6AK5W/5654 RCA and Sylvania tubes from the late 50s and 60s. You can get them for $3-4 with a little patience.
  David of little Dot likes the Mullard M8100/CV4010 tubes. Here is a link to what I think are Mullard tubes made for the Australian army-navy in 1961. (Next to impossible to decode the date codes on the tube!) that sound great and cost less than $8 each with shipping:
  http://cgi.ebay.com/5654-6AK5-6096-CV4010-TUBE-/150258062878?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item22fc14161e
  Good luck!


----------



## novak

Thanks for the info! I nabbed a pair of stock power tubes locally earlier today.
   
  I also found a link to some [size=12.0pt]6Sh1P-EV's in this thread so I went ahead and ordered those aswell. I think I'll wait 'till they arrive before I test out anything else. I'll definitely keep an eye out for affordable examples of the tubes you listed aswell. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



[/size]


----------



## mordy

[size=12pt]I also have the 6Sh1P-EV's which are quite good and have a strong bass.[/size]
  [size=12pt]I have a source for this type of tube for $38.00/100, but I can't use so many. Maybe some people want to split this deal?[/size]


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## jyc327

man i just got 16 of these for 17 bucks. i cant help you on that bundle. but they do sound good. some of the ones i got i noticed microphonics. i have some cheap rings i put on and it helped. but not all are like that. oh mine batch came in two flavours. some had this "rib" that ran down its length (3 in total) and some dont.


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## mordy

I haven't really had any problems with microphonics. My MkIII is sitting on a shelf with plenty of space around it for ventilation. In addition I have three old aluminum cones (feet) that I put under it so that there is more airflow around it. Even after an extended time on it does not get very hot.
  In any case, always wanted to know where to get inexpensive rings to put around the tubes to see if the sound improves. Maybe you could could describe what you are using and where to find them cheap.
  The main thing is to have fun playing with the MkIII. Trying different tubes, burning them in, listening to critical recordings to see how the sound stage and bass works out with a specific set of tubes and comparing different sets of tubes.
  So far my conclusions are that antique tubes from the 40's aren't necessarily better than stuff from the late 70's, and that inexpensive US made tubes can hold their own very well against more expensive British tubes. And tube matching is good for the economy but doesn't make much of a difference in listening. Read somewhere that tubes were made with 5-10% tolerances so the matching is not crucial.
  I also have a theory that tubes designed for longer life have stronger bass, but that may just be a totally mistaken notion.
  I wish that you could look at a tube and how it is made and make predictions about how it sounds, sound stage, bass etc, but no such luck!  It is just trial and error.
  What do you think?


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## AlexRoma

Hi guys. Last week my LittleDot MK III has arrived , so , I guess I'm gona join the tube rollers club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

    I've got only one headphone - BeyerDynamic DT990 250ohm Premium . I had read last 30 pages and decided to upgrade the drive tubes since I am really not happy with the stock
   
  I like all kinds of music but this cans are somehow too sibilant and upfront sounding (no complaining for the bass  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I was expecting from a tube-amp to enlarge the sound stage, bring more air and instrument separation, smooth the highs and bring the mids a little forward . But.. The stock tubes are nothing special in my case.. Even after 30 hours burn-in MK III sounds nothing better than my Audinst HUD-mx1 DAC/ss-amp, no lush, no smooth upgrade, the bass is even more uncontrolled and boomy (Gain setting =10) .. So I'm quite disappointed at the moment...
  
  Guys, unfortunately at the moment I may afford only one pair of tubes.. Which one are a better match in my case ? 
   
  1. Tung-Sol Mil-Spec 6AK5 5654 EF95    (quite old and expensive, 50$ pair on ebay, most had been used 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. Are they really much better in my case, then half the price M8100 mullards ? )
  2. Mullard M8100  EF95
  3. Mullard M8161  EF92
  4. Mullard M8083  EF91    (most controversial tubes so far.. Some guys find them super warm and spacey , other super boring and harsh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  5. Russion 6Sh1P-EV / 6J1P-EV   
  6. ... ... ... something else
   
  Remember, they must cure DT-990 claustrophobia and ultra-brighness !  No bass burst needed, only lush, warmth, space, air ...


----------



## mordy

I have a set of NOS Mullard EF91 tubes that I broke in for about 100 hours on my MkIII. I did not like them; to me they sounded too harsh.
  Maybe it is worth trying for you - I paid $9.25 for them, and for another $3 I could send them to a US address.
  If anybody is interested, the cost would be $12.25 including shipping in the US.
   
  The Mullard CV4010(M8100) tubes are very well balanced, with a beautiful midrange and not too powerful bass. If you look on Ebay for CV4010 you will find somebody who sells them for $5 each +shipping.
   
  Again, I can only guess how something would sound because I do not know which tubes would sound good with your headphones.


----------



## AlexRoma

Thank you mordy for replay.  I live in east Europe, so in my case the shipment price is an issure.. In most cases it is equal or twice the price of the tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ..
   
  Ok.. Any  other suggestions, ideas ? Come on, guys, the must be a lot of DT990 owners here..


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## Katun

Alright, I'm completely new to tube amps (go easy on me), so I had a question about the MK III.
   
  The two small tubes in the front are the ones people tube roll? And the large ones in the back be left alone as they are power tubes?
   
  I thought this whole tube rolling thing would be super complex, but if it's just the front 2 tubes, it makes it that much easier.
   
  (I'm a few clicks away from getting this paired with a DT990/600. Tube rolling is looking promising.)


----------



## mordy

I am also new to tube rolling, but to change the tubes is not much different than putting a plug in a wall outlet and pulling it out. You take the tube between your fingers and gently rock it slightly sideways back and forth (hence tube rolling) while you pull upwards. Just make sure to insert the new tube with the pins aligned with the holes.
  The other thing is to wait for the tube to cool off if you have been using the amp - maybe 5-10 minutes before you make a change.
  The smaller tubes ("peanut tubes") are the driver tubes and the ones to change. They account for about 85% of the sound of the amp. The larger power tubes in the back are quite good as stock, and to get a little better sound you have to spend big bucks which does not make it worth it for me.


----------



## mordy

Here is a current offering of great US made Sylvania tubes from 1967 for $2.50 each. These tubes are my sound stage champions so far. On a good recording the sound stretches outside my speakers maybe a foot or two. Better sound stage and detail than the Mullard CV4010. Bass, bass slam, highs are great, but the CV4010 maybe has a little sweeter midrange and overall balance. However, the ability to separate out the instruments and locate the players in depth as well as in width wins me over. Even old mono recordings get a little bit of a soundstage.
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/1-NIB-Sylvania-5654-6AK5-Tube-75-available-/270656236668?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f045e6c7c


----------



## Katun

Quote: 





mordy said:


> Here is a current offering of great US made Sylvania tubes from 1967 for $2.50 each. These tubes are my sound stage champions so far. On a good recording the sound stretches outside my speakers maybe a foot or two. Better sound stage and detail than the Mullard CV4010. Bass, bass slam, highs are great, but the CV4010 maybe has a little sweeter midrange and overall balance. However, the ability to separate out the instruments and locate the players in depth as well as in width wins me over. Even old mono recordings get a little bit of a soundstage.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/1-NIB-Sylvania-5654-6AK5-Tube-75-available-/270656236668?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f045e6c7c


 

 Thanks for the link! I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction in terms of which tubes to buy.
   
  So, those are superior to the stock tubes, correct? I might buy a couple right now, even though my amp is not coming for another month...


----------



## mordy

I personally found these tubes superior to the stock tubes, but it is possible that each individual equipment set-up reacts differently. In any case, after having tried some ten different tubes that came recommended I find these among the best and with the widest sound stage. The beauty is that you don't have to spend $50 for a set of great tubes to experiment with.
  Would like to hear from you once you got your amp and tried these out. It is definitively worth it to buy the tubes when they are available at this price.


----------



## novak

I'd love to order those but it'd cost me over 40€ MINIMUM to get a pair shipped to Finland. That seller needs to tweak his shipping prices a bit, I think


----------



## Katun

$5 shipping is a bit expensive for a tube, but I guess it's because the price of the actually tube is so low.
   
  It's more like $7-$8 per tube, which is still a great price I believe. I'll probably be getting a set soon enough.


----------



## novak

I requested for a new total and I ended up with $15 for two tubes, shipping included. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The EV's should be arriving tomorrow, a pair of CV4010's a day after that and the Sylvanias next week (hopefully). Can't wait to get my hands on them.


----------



## AlexRoma

Guys, give me please an exact answer on this question : Is there any difference between Russion 6J1P and 6J1P-EV  ?


----------



## mordy

These tubes are similar with the EV a better version.
  E: extended service life
  V: increased reliability and mechanical ruggedness and less susceptibility to noise and microphonics.
   
  Another version of this tube is called 6Zh1P-EV.
   
  Another post on this thread mentions that all these EV tubes sound the same. Normally, a tube may last for 2,000 hours; the EV tubes are supposed to last 5,000 hours. (Mullard 10 M Master series, GE Five Star and GL series as well as Sylvania Gold tubes,  I believe are rated for a 10,000 hour service life - if I got it wrong please let me know.)
   
  These tubes sound good and are very inexpensive as well. In my system they exhibit strong bass with a somewhat constrained sound stage and fairly detailed sound with excellent highs. A pleasant neutral tube to listen to with punchy bass.


----------



## Trapper32

I bought a few sets of the 6J1P-EV and wasn't particularly impressed with them.  Luckily I decided to try some 6Zh1P-EV and was blown away by how good they sounded.  They can be a very very good tube for the LD and I've tried alot of different tubes.  ( tube rolling can be very addictive )  Both of the Russian variants I tried had the three vertical grooves in the glass..nicknamed the Groove Tubes.  They had great dynamics and were a well balanced tube.


----------



## novak

Yeah I've been using 6Sh1P-EV's for about a week now and they're completely stunning tubes. All instruments are separated very clearly, the soundstage is more than sufficient and there's a very pleasing kick on the lower end.
   
  I'm now comparing them to the Sylvania 5654/6AK5's I received today and unless the Sylvanias _really_ improve with burn-in, I think the groove tubes are going back in. Astonishing quality and only for a dollar each!


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## Yekrut

Quote: 





novak said:


> Yeah I've been using 6Sh1P-EV's for about a week now and they're completely stunning tubes. All instruments are separated very clearly, the soundstage is more than sufficient and there's a very pleasing kick on the lower end.


 


  How do these tubes affect the highs/treble? I'm planning on using my LD MKIII with Beyerdynamics DT990s and the treble can be a bit aggressive. I would really like something that can smooth it out without diminishing the clarity of the sound. I heard the CV4010 were good for that but the ones you're describing now seem quite interesting.


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## mordy

Can you give a link to your source for the $1 Sh1P-EV tubes?


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## Yekrut

Quote: 





novak said:


> Yeah I've been using 6Sh1P-EV's for about a week now and they're completely stunning tubes. All instruments are separated very clearly, the soundstage is more than sufficient and there's a very pleasing kick on the lower end.


 


  Sorry for the double post, but are these the famous Russian Groove Tubes I've been reading about all over this thread? Also are those the same as the 6Zh1P-EV (which I heard are the same as the 6J1P).


----------



## novak

Quote: 





yekrut said:


> Sorry for the double post, but are these the famous Russian Groove Tubes I've been reading about all over this thread? Also are those the same as the 6Zh1P-EV (which I heard are the same as the 6J1P).


 


 Yup, they're _the_ groove tubes.
   
  They get their name from the two vertical grooves on the glass. Can't be certain if they're the same as the 6J1P, but judging from the schematics I managed to find they differ in their construction.
   
  Quote: 





mordy said:


> Can you give a link to your source for the $1 Sh1P-EV tubes?


 



http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130334726822

  
  Quote: 





yekrut said:


> How do these tubes affect the highs/treble? I'm planning on using my LD MKIII with Beyerdynamics DT990s and the treble can be a bit aggressive. I would really like something that can smooth it out without diminishing the clarity of the sound. I heard the CV4010 were good for that but the ones you're describing now seem quite interesting.


 


 Just from the impressions I've managed to gather they're slightly more recessed at the top of the range than the stock tubes (or Sylvania 5654/6AK5's/Mullard CV4010's for that matter). They're not harsh at all and out of all the tubes I own for the LD3 I think the EV's are actually my favorites as far as sound clarity goes, especially in the mid range. The others can sound a little shrill at times with my HD 650's and the Sylvanias sound downright muddy on top of having annoyingly piercing highs.
   
  Have you played around with the gain settings, by the way? It could be the cause of the problem youre having.


----------



## Yekrut

Sweet! Thanks for all the info novak. I think I might purchase those tubes in the near future, especially since they are such a good deal.
  I don't actually have the amp yet! I'm just being a bit preemptive and looking to improve on the stock tubes. But yes I'll be messing around with the gain settings to get the best sound out of the stock tubes first.


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## AlexRoma

Hi Yekrut. On previous page I had put the same question you did, but for the 250ohm beyers. Unfortunately got no answer, glad Novak finaly gave us both some really precious advice on the topic.
   
  Today I'm gona buy a set of 8 Russion 6J1P-EV and in a couple of days I'll definettly write my impressions on them. Also I would like to mention thet the stock Little Dot MKIII combo does not sound warm and tuby at all, they more sound like a winder stage SS amplifier (compared to my Audinst Dac/Amp ), so , in our case tube rolling is vital necessary!
  By the way, with the stock tubes I use gain Setting = 5 for my DT990. The 10-th setting is warmer but in also nerrower the soundstage, so I think 5 is the sweet spot. The smaller the gain, the brighter the sound and bigger the soundstage. But if gain < 5 , on DT990 the bass becomes simply overwhelming.
   
  Next week I'll gonna order some Mullard CV4010 M8100  and a pear of Tung Sol too


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## novak

Warm and tubey is exactly how I'd describe the EV's. The first couple of days with them I wasn't all that impressed but after that they really started to blow me away.
   
  Let me know how the Tung Sol's work out for you. I've been interested in trying them out myself.


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## AlexRoma

Quote:


> The first couple of days with them I wasn't all that impressed but after that they really started to blow me away


   
   This is really a good thing to hear, 'cause right now, out of the box, with no burn in, this tubes sound nothing special, slightly better then the GE tubes, but almost unnoticeable..  Really hope burn in will help..  I was pretty lucky to find 6J1P-EV -s in my city in stock, with no shipment overpayment.. I've payed only 1$ for each.  Unfortunately Mullards M8100 will cast me 10 times more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Right now the sound is too boomy. My DT990-s it turned intro a woofer that overwhelms the rest spectrum.. Hope another pair of 6J1P-EV would perform better.. (i've got 3 pairs)
   
   
  But as for now, i agree that Russian groove tubes are a bargain for low-punchy headphones like the Sennheiser HD 5** series or the AKG-s.. As For Beyers, this is too much...


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## Yekrut

Quote: 





> This is really a good thing to hear, 'cause right now, out of the box, with no burn in, this tubes sound nothing special, slightly better then the GE tubes, but almost unnoticeable..  Really hope burn in will help..  I was pretty lucky to find 6J1P-EV -s in my city in stock, with no shipment overpayment.. I've payed only 1$ for each.  Unfortunately Mullards M8100 will cast me 10 times more


 
   
  Thats interesting to hear, I'm really considering ordering them. What city are you in/where do you go to find tubes in stock(ie what kind of store)? I want to order them on ebay put just find it a pain that I would pay 6 euros for shipping...
   
  I'm in Montreal Canada fyi.
   
  Also thanks to Novak for the great info and answers, much appreciated.


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## novak

That's unfortunate. My HD 650's were lacking a bit on the lows with the other tubes I tried and the Mullards and Sylvanias especially were leaning towards the higher end of the frequency range. My Senn's have very solid highs and mids as it is so the groove tubes rounded off the sound very nicely. With my 'phones the lows now have a very satisfying presence but it doesn't really sound overwhelming at all. The EV's give me excellent mids aswell and I'm picking out new detail in vocals I hadn't noticed before. 
  
  Quote: 





alexroma said:


> Right now the sound is too boomy. My DT990-s it turned intro a woofer that overwhelms the rest spectrum.. Hope another pair of 6J1P-EV would perform better.. (i've got 3 pairs)
> 
> 
> But as for now, i agree that Russian groove tubes are a bargain for low-punchy headphones like the Sennheiser HD 5** series or the AKG-s.. As For Beyers, this is too much...


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## mordy

Trying to figure out how you can recommend a specific tube; however, I have come to the conclusion that even the "best sounding" tubes sound different in different settings. From what I understand many (most?) of the participants in this forum are listening to the MarkIII through headphones. While I like headphones I much prefer listening through my speakers. I use my Little Dot amp as tube buffer for my receiver. I really think that I get the tube sound with the added strength of a solid state self powered subwoofer and ss receiver.
  I can alter the sound a little by using the tone controls on my receiver. Interestingly enough, different tubes react differently to the tone controls - some barely react to change, while with others you can crank up the bass or treble quite a lot.
  The sound stage is very important to me and some tubes give a much wider presentation than others. My impression is that with headphones you cannot get the same wide sound stage as with speakers. Does it ever happen with cans that you have the illusion that the sound of an instrument comes from two feet away from the side of your head? (I had the Sennheiser HD600 in the past, and now the AT ATH-AD700, and  I always perceived the sound as inside the head with a somewhat narrow sound stage.)
  So in conclusion,  my working theory is that you can definitively pick out tubes that sound better than others, but the specific tube that works best for your equipment has to be tried out from a group of the best sounding ones.
  Any thoughts?
   
  (BTW, I have a set of the Russian 6Sh1P-EV tubes, and they have good strong bass. Now I found a set of Tung Sol 6AK5 tubes. These are quite good, and the bass is really punchy with good slam.)


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## yashu

Cool thread. I saw this recently, but I have been rolling 6ak5/5654 variants for a loooong time now, and amassed quite a collection. When I began, there was not so much known about the little 6J1 sockets. Very little info was out there, but eventually when a musician and collector noted that the socket was a 5654, it was a jumping off point for a very interesting journey with this under-appreciated pentode. Now, there are certain sellers on e-bay that I know have the best quality variants, and he gets them all the way down to military issued Tung Sol a year after they were invented. They were not for civilian use then, and through 1945, the pentodes were all for the war, and that was that.
   
  I began with a rather boring GE 5654, and was not all that impressed by rolling tubes, as the chinese 6J1 is a strange one, since it carries with it, especially if found a good matched set of D getters, then Cryo'd, to have qualities that made them worth having. It was a muted chilled, excuse the pun, sound... I guess to use an analogy, I would say they were afterparty downtempo groove, you know that smooth stuff that reminds one a bit of disco, but like disco, it gets old pretty fast. In fact, the better sets of 6J1s didn't last that long before they would crackle and pop. I also had them in O getters, and this is where I began to research the effects of the getter, and the shape of the device that the getters were named after, the part that would silver the tops. I don't know why, honestly, some typed are obviously superior to others. A D getter on this pentode is usually better. A lot of small tubes are like this, and seem to just have a built dependent on the little things.
   
  I moved to a set of cheap 70s NOS RCA, and after time, have noted that this is a very good value. These can be had in sleeves of 5 or more, and all at a good price. The sound is like a better 6J1. What made you like the 6J1, the 70s RCAs could do better. Not extremely so, but consistently so, and it wasn't hard to find matched sets of more than 2, so you had a lot of life to just leave the amp, or if you had a tube buffer that used the socket, just leave it on, because the longer they are left to warm up the better. This holds true down to the oldest examples I have, from 1945.
   
  I was not impressed by the CV4010, as they mostly seemed to be of the same era but the build was interesting since the plates were done in a different way, but still electrically, a drop in, for the socket. They were like a better example of a later in the cold war GE pair. The GEs from the 80s should just be avoided, seriously.
   
  RCA non-black plate vintage was interesting in that they were different, as well the black plate from the same era, 50s and 60s. GEs from the 50s weren't so bad, but now when you get into the mid 60s and earlier you start to have to pay a bit more for a matched pair of NOS. The variety in design, manufacturers, and production times, made it worth it to try the old ones. Western electric's we403a is a warm tube, and I love it, of course it carries with it a similar sound to other WE tubes  of that time. The standouts are truly the old WE and Tung Sol tubes. These were old enough that the plates were not supported at the bottom of the bottle as they were later on. Huge microphonics issues, especially if you had the speakers on, but even with the 'phones, if you had them in the amp and it up against something, it was like you could hear everything in the room. You had to be careful with those WE tubes. The Tung Sols seemed to handle that aspect of build better and it didn't make such an impact, but something to look out for anyhow. I prefer the earliest Tung Sols and if you are serious about this socket, indeed are they good. They seem to highlight all that is great about the music, they become the addict's tube along with WE's variant. RCA early vintage is hit or miss, I expected more from them, but they are not bad at all. In alll honesty, you owe yourself a pair of extremely vintage TSes and WEs. The GEs, I have some from the 50s, D getters, and they are not a bad tube but take a long time to break in, but still if you looking for neutral, you found it. They were exactly what a detail freak needed. Unlike the later GE tubes, these were obviously built much differently, and the sound was not warm or vintage, but clear, open, and less tubey. These are the tubes to get if you are hooking into another tubed source. This way no unwanted artifacts would be added and the sound would still stand out from whatever other tubed animal you were using. I noticed something that happened in the 50s, the filaments got better built, more windings. The tubes did not glow bright light lightbulbs as the old ones did based on the original military design. Maybe the fact that the inside of the tube seems to get hotter is what makes the truly old ones sound so smooth. If those RCAs were like downtempo groove, these were like the best chilled mixes out there, or in some cases I could compare a tube to the darkest slowest chuggiest deep house... a good sound with a lot of it's own texture, but addicting. he old GEs were more like The Eagles, or Steely Dan. Almost a flawlessly transparent mix that still sounded analog in every way.
   
  I like that this socket got used in all sorts of stuff after a short time, because the tubes showed up in droves, where the best were still within a price worth paying. NOS on these pentodes probably sat around with nothing to do for a long time. I don't think many people were looking for them until this new DIY spirit among the analog revival picked up on the chinese 6J1 as a pentode that offered something triodes didn't... you could get really good at matching them, and so you could get a pair that matched so closely in emission, gas, remaining getter, and so forth, that it was harder to find a triode of the same quality. I have been rolling other tubes as I began to enjoy them, but the 6J1 will be what sparked my interest, and it seemed to happen right before everyone was looking for them, so I got to see and hear so many good variants. The m8100 CV 4010, I am still out on that one. I am looking into getting something older and really comparing. After learning so much about this tube, I don't think my initial pair were a good example.
   
  I am leaving out one maker, Raytheon, and it is because I have yet to hear one for this socket that did not sound harsh, and they were always the closest matched sets because they were packaged with an A and a B tube. They were just too close to what the equipment that needed them required, and nothing else. They were so well done they were harsh. I feel if you keep it at under 40 and above 34 on your tube tester, you will have the beginning of what could be a good pair. Raytheons measured well and were always seemingly extra hardened, but have not had a pair that I liked , even after major burn in.
   
  I still have to try also the Russian made 6J1, and see what a good pair would sound cryo'd. Could they be a good balance? Maybe. I like my deepest of the deep genres of electronic music and also some of the most organic, with bands like Songs: Ohia. I like everything in between. I cannot justify the others *enough* as long as I have a couple sets of old TSes and WEs, well matched and in good condition. The sound of those tubes from the very beginning of the new modern era, rather, earlier, mid 50s and under, is so infectious, that as long as they are the only tubes in the chain, you will love them. They are too "something" when pairied with a tubed device, but alone wonderful, but remember vintage GE is seemingly taylor made if you are hooking another tubed device up to a set of 6J1 sockets.
   
  That is my take. To note is that there is a WE 403B which is a hardened version of the A and sounds about the same, so it is not needed to get it to get a better sound. Milspec to these tubes is all they know, even in the "a" consumer versions. Tung Sol invented this pentode, so they know how to do it right. RCA built many variations even early on, and even some to be branded  by GE or TS. Just look at the lettering, you can tell what is what usually from their labels since each had their own way of marking them. Mullards are brown, not sure why, but they are... it is just how it goes. This is one socket that the stock tube can be enjoyed, and used in a bright system to tone it down.
   
  Happy listening... don't buy up all the good NOS and leave me with nothing now  I was actually debating buying a bendix for the 5670 socket triode, even at over 100 dollars a tube, but I didn't. (GE 5 stars are great, IMO in that socket and offer as much as the 396a for sure, just not in the same way, but that is another thread. ) Tubes change the flavour a bit, but are not tools to EQ your stuff. Their sound can be so complex and interesting that it can be addicting, but compared to other things, their affect is not as much as, say, a better DAC. I would put them ahead of cables. I don't take much stock in power cables at all as a major change (so the last few feet of hundreds of miles is what truly matters?!?), and ICs are simply the result of how electronics work, so there are good ones to be had for not that much and people promise they can move worlds. ICs and other cabling sometimes will show a view of how it is done, and some is obvously more than others in terms of quality, but the price doesn't have to be huge to get that. Tubes are one of the most interesting tweaks because these are objects of the past that we engineered a circuit around, there is a lot of history, and so many variations that can be easily seen, form the plate, filament to the getter, all is unique. They remind me of vinyl a bit It is rare that you can hold in your hand a signature sound, or a signature era representation. It is fun in that respect, checking out what was going on so many years ago, then to follow it's progression.


----------



## mordy

Many thanks for your exhaustive, informative and interesting post. I would have to read it a few times to digest it, but since you have so much experience with these types of tubes, I would like to ask you questions piece by piece.
  Let's start with the getters: Is it possible to predict what sounds better from the shape of the getter? Some are round (halo), others are rectangular, others rectangular at an angle, others shaped in a half moon shape (D? shape). I have two Tung Sols where the getter is rectangular but bent at a 90 degree angle (similar somewhat to the electric take-offs on a street car).
  What about the silver deposit (getter flash) inside the top of the tube? Most of the tubes have what looks like a cap, but with the Tung Sols only half of the cap is covered. I even saw on Ebay an early WE 403A without the getter flash. Which configuration is better sounding?
   
  Re tubes, I have bought a bunch on Ebay, proudly adhering to the $8 rule (no tube over $8; preferably 2 for $8 or less). So far, the late 60's/early 70's RCA are great sounding, the same for Sylvania Jan spec from the same years, and the Russian Sh1P-EV. The Mullard CV4010 are very well balanced, but perhaps the Tung Sol are the best - need more time with them to decide. (I have a set 1951-52 WE403A that sound thin and accentuates the treble, but maybe they are a bad pair.)
   
  What about the 10,000 hour tubes? Sylvania Gold, Mullard M10 series, GE GL series (have a couple of GE 5 star - not special for me). I have no personal experience with these except for the 5 Star GE. The russian EV tubes are rated for 5,000 hours - perhaps the longer lasting lasting heaters result in better bass?
   
  You do not address the sound stage at all.....
   
  Do you have a suggestion for a good and cheap tube tester?


----------



## mordy

OK, I read your long post a couple of times and think I understand it better.
  Just a comment now on you final remarks on the greatness of yestertech (yesterday's technology). I listen to 20's jazz, whether original recordings or present day recordings, but all the same genre. It is obvious to me that the tubes really have an affinity for the old 78's (I only have them on CDs) and they add sparkle and sweetness to the sound. The best tubes separate out the instruments and even produce a miniature sound stage with mono recordings.


----------



## Katun

Well, I received my Little Dot and my DT990/600 today, so I'll have to start listening as soon as I get home!
   
  (I did also buy some of the Sylvania 6AK5 tubes that Mordy linked us to. I'll be trying those first, and am excited to hear them!)


----------



## AlexRoma

After 10 days of burn-in I find Russion 6J1P-EV (XII-1975) nice, clear-sounding, bassy tubes with good instrument separation, definitely better then the stock GE-s, but not warm enough (expecially for DT990) . I am sure, this tubes are the perfect mach for Sennheisers. The overall sound with DT990 (250ohm) is nice and I think I could live with it, if only the trebles were softer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. These headphones could be one of the best sounding headphones (for my tastes) if I could have found a way to reduce treble over-brightness  ... 
   
  I would be happy if someone suggest me other good, spacey sounding tubes with really warm presentation (the warmer, the better).. I have only 50$ left for tube rolling.. Please help me, guys..  
   
  I was thinking about Tung Sol-s or Mullard CV4010 M8100.. Maybe there is a better choice for my needs that I've missed ? I have only one chance left.. If I go wrong, spending the rest of my budget in vain.. Well.. I may become a skeptic, unfortunate ex-head-fier...


----------



## Katun

Well, my MKIII with Sylvania tubes and DT990 now have about 3 hours on them, but already sound really quite good!
   
  But I noted something and maybe someone could help me out. Obviously, all 4 tubes are glowing a faint orange, but my 2 Sylvania's have a faint blue "streak" across their sides. It honestly just looks like a "scribble" as one is in the shape of a sort of crooked "U". Even weirder thing is, I checked back about an hour or so later, and it had the "blue line" on a different side of the tube. Is this normal or are these tubes about to fail?
   
  If anyone has the DT990 with these Sylvanias, I would love to hear some feedback! (Hopefully the combo I bought is a good one!)
   
  Also, what improvements can I see when the tubes are burned in?


----------



## Trapper32

I don't have the DT990 but I have both the TS and the Mullard tubes.  The TS definitely have more base but the Mullard's are a nice warm tube.  If you want reduced highs I'd take a chance on the Mullards.
  Quote: 





alexroma said:


> After 10 days of burn-in I find Russion 6J1P-EV (XII-1975) nice, clear-sounding, bassy tubes with good instrument separation, definitely better then the stock GE-s, but not warm enough (expecially for DT990) . I am sure, this tubes are the perfect match for Sennheisers. The overall sound with DT990 (250ohm) is nice and I think I could live with it, if only the trebles were softer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## AlexRoma

Thank you Trapper32 for replay, so your suggestion is Mullard M8100... Ok..
   
  Anyway I would not hurry with this purchase.. There are a lot of other experienced folks in this thread. Please , share your thoughts too.


----------



## mordy

Try the Mullard CV4010/M8100. Type in CV4010 on E-Bay and you will find a guy who sells Mullard CV4010s for $5 each plus $5 shipping in the US.  The tubes were made for the Australian armed forces and come in plain white boxes. (Tried to figure out the date code - maybe 1961, but no guarantees).
  Another worthwhile try are late 1960-early 1970s RCA 6AK5 tubes that are easy to find and not very expensive. (Look for a two letter date code where the first letter is C or D; this will  cover tubes made from 1968 until 1972.)
  If you do things right you will have plenty money left from the $50 allowance for tubes....


----------



## maryvutv

RogerB said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Negatron, thanks for you input here. It was your MKIII review and posts that were my deciding factor in purchasing the MKIII.
> 
> ...






Thanks for your explanation! It's quite useful, It's helpful to me.


----------



## Yekrut

Quote: 





mordy said:


> Try the Mullard CV4010/M8100. Type in CV4010 on E-Bay and you will find a guy who sells Mullard CV4010s for $5 each plus $5 shipping in the US.  The tubes were made for the Australian armed forces and come in plain white boxes. (Tried to figure out the date code - maybe 1961, but no guarantees).
> Another worthwhile try are late 1960-early 1970s RCA 6AK5 tubes that are easy to find and not very expensive. (Look for a two letter date code where the first letter is C or D; this will  cover tubes made from 1968 until 1972.)
> If you do things right you will have plenty money left from the $50 allowance for tubes....


 

 Thanks for the additional information! I'm in same boat as AlexRoma and want to get some warmer tubes for my LD MKIII. I will for sure try the CV4010s and potentially the RCA 6AK5s.


----------



## Airwin

Hi,
   
  I second, the 4010 Mullard (combined with 6N6Pi) shines for the LD MKIII.


----------



## howc

I am using mullard 4010 and really preferred it over RCA 6AK5 and stock tubes but only tried them awhile. The RCA sounds good too but too bright for my liking. 
   
  Now i am trying amperex ef91 and it sounds really good as well. i am no audiophile so i cant give any detail description about the sound signature so i can only say in a general terms. 
   
  i've these doubt to clear.. During start up, i see that my left Amperex tube lights up brighter than right side but remain the same brightness after the startup. is it ok and normal? its the same with other brand tube. 
   
  I have also located the source of noise in my setup which is caused by the power supply of my laptop. LAPTOP > USB DAC (gamma 1) > LD 3. I intend to get a external power supply for my DAC but i am just wondering if getting a external power supply but still using USB as a input will still induce noise?


----------



## AlexRoma

Quote:


airwin said:


> Hi,
> 
> I second, the 4010 Mullard (combined with 6N6Pi) shines for the LD MKIII.


 
 Thanks  for advice. One more question. Is there a noticeable difference in sound between Russion 6N6P and 6N6Pi  (6H6П-И) . I've calld for a local tube seller and radio-engineer ,  he told me that 6H6П-*И *tubes are the same 6N6P but were destinate for impulse signal circuits. He did not recommended this tubes for audio-oriented hardware. But he is not an audiophile and not an amp designer, so I'll be glad if you share your own experience..
  The stock tubes on my unit are 6N6P, not the Pi-s !  And yes, I've ordered a pair of Mullard M8100 CV4010 from This seller because there were no more 5$ CV4010 offering on ebay


----------



## mordy

My stock tubes that came with the MkIII are the 6N6Pi tubes. The i designation means for intermittent (pulse mode) use. Ordered a set of 6N6P tubes as back up but felt they sounded slightly more dull than the stock tubes. In any event there was not much difference, and since the driver tubes only account for about 10-15% of the sound I would not worry too much about it.
  Did anybody try the expensive 6N30P-DR driver tubes?  ($160/pair and up - supposedly tubes made after 1990 not as good as earlier ones.) Do they make a difference?
  There is an offering on E-Bay for 6N6P-IR tubes for around $48/pair including shipping.
  Does anybody have any experience with these driver tubes?
  (D means extra long life, R means increased reliability)
   
  Sorry that the guy who sold the CV4010s upped the price; he did advertise them for $5 each for a long time.
   
  In any case,tube rolling can drive you a little crazy.....


----------



## ribafish

Well I've got the 6H30PI-EB  power tubes with cv4010 as driver tubes....and it sound fantastic. Although I'm not shure if i like cv4010 or cv4015 more.


----------



## mordy

The tubes you mention (6H30PI-EB)  are available on E-Bay for around $90/pair.
  E means extended service life (around 5,000-10,000 hours)
  B means low succeptability to noise and microphonics
   
  The DR designation is a step higher with a service life over 10,000 hours and of course a much steeper price.
   
  How much do they sell the tubes for that you have in your area? The ones on E-Bay are Sovteks and cryogenically treated.


----------



## ribafish

To my knowledge they don't sell these here at all, so if they do I have no idea for how much do they go. Mine are sovteks too and I believe they are the same as the ones on E-Bay(where I think these were bought). I like them, they do sound a bit better than the stock ones. I will try the 6sh1p-ev(so-called groove tubes i believe), because sometimes I'd like a bit more bass from dt880/600. Depends on the mood/genre/song.


----------



## Yekrut

Quote: 





alexroma said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> airwin said:
> ...


 

 Thanks for the additional input. I have decided to take the plunge and purchase these as well! Thanks Alex for the link to the seller. Estimated shipping date is between Dec 14 and 27th! I guess I'll have to be patient (not a big deal since I'm still waiting on the amp )


----------



## mordy

I have the 6Sh1p-EV tubes and they are quite strong in the bass.
  Here are my notes from my ongoing shootout of the tubes I bought:
   
  Prominent punchy bass with slam
  Soundstage not the widest with a slight lack in detail
  Midrange good with shimmering highs
  Summary: Neutral with punchy (slightly bloated) bass
   
  Very nice tube, among the best. (Got mine from a guy in Budapest via E-Bay. Must be very strong tubes because they arrived fine wrapped in a napkin inside a padded bubble wrap bag!)
   
  For more controlled bass with great punch and slam you could try the Tung Sol 6AK5.
   
  Again, every tube sounds different in different settings and equipment so you have to experiment with what works best for you. Have fun!


----------



## AlexRoma

I do agree with mordy. I do not have much experience yet with other tubes, but they sound exactly the way Mordy described.
  They do not sound like an SS amp and the soundstage is also bigger than the one in my Dac/Amp Audinst.
  I am pretty sure these Russion 6N1P-EV  (6Sh1p-EV)  a the perfect choice for dark headphones that need some extra bass. They are definitely better then the stock GE tubes.


----------



## ribafish

Well, I wouldn't call dt880 dark, but as I said sometimes i crave for a bit more bass. I will check out 6ak5, but I will wait a bit and first try 6sh1p-ev. And the cans aren't even burned-in, they have about 20 hrs on them...so I will get into more serious rolling after they have I don't know, 150-200 hrs on them. I mean I already have cv4010 and cv4015 driver tubes and 6h30pi+the stock ones, so after I get 6sh1p-ev I think I will be fine for some time...


----------



## AlexRoma

You know what, Ribafish, I am really curious if you`ll find the Russian tubes the best match for your headphones. Please, share your experience especially with me (us) because I do seriously consider DT880-s 600ohm my next purchase if the`ll be no way to get rid of my DT990-s killer-trebles. If the final result (with CV4010-s) of my combo will not change, I'm gona sell DT990 headphones `course the brightness of the trebles make my ears bleed on almost all the avarage-quality metal/rock recordings. Despite of thy gorgeous bass, these treble issues had almost excluded my favorite gothic metal from playlist.. Did you tried DT990 for yourself ? Are there enough bass quantity/quality in your 600 ohm DT880-s for rock/metal music ?

        For my tastes the best sounding headphones should have the almost flat frequency response with a small bass enhancement for some woofer articulated punch, but no boomy, oh, they must sound detailed, transparent with sufficient air and separation. From the beginning this was the reason I had purchased DT990-s, too much head-fi reading... The bass quality/quantity had simply blown me away on first run, so that I almost forgave any other problematic spots.. But.. Time has proved that the first impression is not always the best/right one..


----------



## ribafish

No, I tried only hd650, hd555(which I own) and dt880/600. Well, there definetely is quality in bass, but as i said i sometimes feel there should be a bit more of it...especially with some metal, which might sound a bit empty...but still depending on what you're used to and how the track was mastered...it's not a rule. Thtas why I'm gonna try these tubes and see where I end up. When I first tried them, i touhg thte treble was too hot...but on my setup everything is very good, except the bass in some tracks. Will share my experiences when I get them tubes. But, from what you're saying dt880 may not be for you, as it's got less bass than dt990(at least thats what they say). Try to borrow them or something before you buy...if you have the chance ofcourse.


----------



## Yekrut

Quote: 





alexroma said:


> You know what, Ribafish, I am really curious if you`ll find the Russian tubes the best match for your headphones. Please, share your experience especially with me (us) because I do seriously consider DT880-s 600ohm my next purchase if the`ll be no way to get rid of my DT990-s killer-trebles. If the final result (with CV4010-s) of my combo will not change, I'm gona sell DT990 headphones `course the brightness of the trebles make my ears bleed on almost all the avarage-quality metal/rock recordings. Despite of thy gorgeous bass, these treble issues had almost exclude my favorite gothic metal from playlist.. Did you tried DT990 for yourself ? Are there enough bass quantity/quality in your 600 ohm DT880-s for rock/metal music ?
> 
> For my tastes the best sounding headphones should have the almost flat frequency response with a small bass enhancement for some woofer articulated punch, but no boomy, oh, they must sound detailed, transparent with sufficient air and separation. From the beginning this was the reason I had purchased DT990-s, too much head-fi reading... The bass quality/quantity had simply blown me away on furst run, so that I almost forgave any other problematic spots.. But.. Time has proved that the first impression is not always the best/right one..


 
  Alex, do you have the 600 Ohm version of the DT990s? I was able to audition both the DT880s and the DT990s when I was deciding on purchasing my headphone. Although I didn't get to listen to them for extended periods of time, I was able to compare them back to back. The DT880 is by far a more neutral sounding headphone. Yes it will reduce the edge off the treble, but will also take away lots of the "oomph" of the bass that I love in the DT990s. The DT880s is an amazing headphone, but what made me go for the DT990 was the impressive bass, as well as the super wide soundstage. The semi-closed design of the DT880 somewhat reduced that soundstage and created a more in your head type sound. Those are the two reason why I stuck with the DT990s. Also want to note that I was testing the 250 Ohm version of the DT990s, which are even brighter than the 600 Ohm version. 
   
  PS: I agree that the DT990 is sometimes a bit too bright, especially with bad recordings (I've noticed this on some of my electronic music)
   
  Edit: Just got my LD MKIII today! Its beautiful. I'm loving it already, burn in has started, but right of the bat it has toned down some of the highs, but can't wait to get the CV4010 tubes! Also waiting on my udac which should improve the quality of all the audio.


----------



## sferic

I do prefer the Mullard 4015's to the 4010's, although the 4010's were better than stock. I tried some Sylvania 5654 (not GB) and they were quite harsh. I did get the Russian 6N6Pi driver tubes, and they did make the sound more solid in a subtle way.
   
  The 4010's are brighter than the 4015's. If the rest of your chain is dark, you might prefer them. But I find my MKIII with 4015's so satisfying I no longer even think about changing amps. Maybe by the time they burn out LD will have something improved or maybe I'll look at Woo. But I'm totally happy for now and my wallet is safe.
   
  Before this, I had a Little Country ss amp, tried 3 different Op Amps, bought the fancy power supply. It was good, and got better with the upgrades, but there were weird things like - touching the volume knob would sometimes cause a hum. When I got the LD MKIII, even with stock tubes, it just spoiled me forever. There's a metallic quality to ss that you just don't realize is there until you listen to glass.
   
  My set up: MacPro playing Apple Lossless thru Play. DAC = Apogee Duet. HP's are Ultrasone 900 (Kees Mod) with Milan Acoustics cable for isolation, or (when I can listen in a silent room) Grado PS1000 (heaven).


----------



## novak

I own a fairly high-end SS amp but to be honest I just prefer the tube sound. My Symphony is always predictable and gives me the same exact sound every time I use it, but there's just something to tube amps that a SS just can't give me. If I happen to get bored to a certain sound from my LD, I can just switch the driver tubes and it sounds like something completely different. I've found that tubes evolve fairly drastically throughout their life and a tube that sounded one way when I first plugged it in can sound completely different a few months later. I just love being able to change things around to get just the sound I want!


----------



## mordy

I must admit that I never heard of the Meier amp before but it looks like a very well made product. Did you try to combine both your amps? I have a ss receiver that puts out 100 W RMS. It has facilities for plugging in something external in a loop. The Little Dot MkIII is plugged into this external loop and I can instantly A/B what I am listening to, in addition to using the balance and tone controls.
  The net result is that I get a ss amp with a tube preamp and tube sound.
   
  Re tube rolling I agree with you that you can change the sound instantly by putting in different driver tubes. I found that that you need to break in the tubes 40-100 hours for them to stabilize. I don't have any experience that the sound of the tubes changes with age after that. Tubes are a real mystery to me - I cannot find any way to predict how they are going to sound before listening to them. Then you have the mysterious labeling and dating systems, and the fact that all manufacturers seem to have bought from each other and put their names on tubes made by others. Some big brands never even manufactured their own tubes but always bought from others!


----------



## ribafish

Quote: 





alexroma said:


> You know what, Ribafish, I am really curious if you`ll find the Russian tubes the best match for your headphones. Please, share your experience especially with me (us) because I do seriously consider DT880-s 600ohm my next purchase if the`ll be no way to get rid of my DT990-s killer-trebles. If the final result (with CV4010-s) of my combo will not change, I'm gona sell DT990 headphones `course the brightness of the trebles make my ears bleed on almost all the avarage-quality metal/rock recordings. Despite of thy gorgeous bass, these treble issues had almost excluded my favorite gothic metal from playlist.. Did you tried DT990 for yourself ? Are there enough bass quantity/quality in your 600 ohm DT880-s for rock/metal music ?
> 
> For my tastes the best sounding headphones should have the almost flat frequency response with a small bass enhancement for some woofer articulated punch, but no boomy, oh, they must sound detailed, transparent with sufficient air and separation. From the beginning this was the reason I had purchased DT990-s, too much head-fi reading... The bass quality/quantity had simply blown me away on first run, so that I almost forgave any other problematic spots.. But.. Time has proved that the first impression is not always the best/right one..


 

  Well, I got my groove tubes today, they have about an hour on them atm, and they sure do add some bass...and i think it fits rock/metal/dnb and other genres where bass is needed very well, certainly better than cv4010/4015(which i still haven't decided which i like better=D ), but for some more classical recordings i feel that cv4010/15 will fit better.. some jazz is better with grooves, other with cv4010....but this all is still on new tubes, with not that much listening...
 Altogether, I am glad i ordered them, as they are a steal at this price...and there can never be too much tubes and options=)

       As for the headphones themselves, I just adore them, they are the best I've heard(haven't heard much of them, but I have heard a lot of proper studio speakers(Genelecs, Adams, Bluesky, Dynaudio and so on). Lots of detail, midrange is spot-on, bass is detailed, goes very deep...altogether just and awesome piece of equipment. Would definitely recommend them to a friend.

  PS: am I the only one having problems with posting? I have to write in source view if I want any editing options. If I'm not i don't even see the indicator where will i write or delete what i wrote, nor can I move the damn thing around. Suggestions would be nice=D


----------



## mordy

In my unending quest for the "perfect" tube for my MkIII system, I have come to realize that it is much harder to find the right bass than the right treble.
  The Russian groove tubes have good bass but the bass is a little bloated in my system. As you mention, the CV4010 tubes have an overall nicer midrange and are more balanced than the Russian 6Sh1p-EV but lack the strong bass punch.
  In my search I came across several pairs of Tung Sol 6AK5/5654 tubes from the 40's to the 60's. Some of them look different than other tubes: the getters are bent 45 degrees (similar to the electrical take-off from street cars), and the getter flash (the silver coating inside the top of the tube) covers only half the inside of the top. These tubes have the best bass in my system: Punchy, snappy and bouncy and very well controlled. The sound stage is very wide and they sound just right with great detail and imaging. (However, the midrange is more analytical and not as lush as with the OEM GE tubes or some RCA tubes, but you can't have everything.)
  Tung Sol invented the 6AK5 tube in 1943 so maybe they know something about making them that the other manufacturers don't. For some reason the silk screening comes off very easily from the tubes and it is hard to read what it says on them many times if they are used or have been handled. The factory code is 233, so if you find a tube with that number  and you cannot read the name of the manufacturer, it could be made by Tung Sol. (If it looks like a Western Electric tube with that number, it could have been manufactured the 33rd week 1952!)
  Have fun tube rolling, and don't forget to enjoy the music instead of listening to how the tube sounds!


----------



## mordy

I apologize for the typo, the Tung Sol factory code is 322.


----------



## Trapper32

Yes the Tung Sols are a really nice tube.  I have the TS with 3 different getters....  The ones you described.., side getters, and rectangular ones.  Its been awhile since I've listened to them and can't remember the different SQ.


----------



## leesure

Just got a nice matched pair of Western Electric 6AK5's.  They were listed as 'used - low hours' so I'm not sure how much burn in they've had, but right out of the box, they are a nice improvement over the Mullard CV4010 I had been using.  Wider soundstage and better sparkle without sounding bright.  The mids are still nice and liquidy.


----------



## N3v3rmind

Hi all!
   
  I´ve ordered my little tube mk iii today, and i´´m realy looking fprward to try some other tubes.
   
  Please don´´t slap me, if the question has been asked befpre, but 154 pages are a lot to read.
   
  Is there anywhere a overview which Tubes can be taken or which are the best?
   
  Best Regards,
  Dan


----------



## Dynasty62

Hey all,
   
  Has anyone ever used Mullard EF91 6AM6 with large shield and blue glass ? If so, how are they in soundstage/instrument separation, warmth, and vocals?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## mordy

I tried a pair of Mullard EF91/6AM6 tubes with the blue glass. The sound was detailed with good sound stage and instrument separation and powerful bass, and at first I liked them a lot. However, ultimately I found the bass too harsh and the tubes tiring to listen to in the long run. Again, your equipment may produce a different sound, and if you need very strong bass these tubes maybe are the answer.
  I bought the tubes new and broke them in for about 100 hours. If anybody is interested I would sell them cheap for $12 + shipping - let me know.
   
  -


----------



## mordy

There is no "best" tube because the tubes sound different with different equipment. 85% of the sound comes from the small driver tubes. The OEM GE5654 tubes are not bad at all with a beautiful midrange.
  Other choices for overall beautiful sound with better sound stage and bass are Mullard CV4010/M8100, RCA black plate 60's-70's 6AK5/5654/EF95 as well as Sylvania tubes of the same vintage and designation.
  Some people like the early Western Electric 403A as well.
  My personal favorites (as of now) are Tung Sol/National 6AK5 tubes from the 40's-60's. Each pair and design are a little different, but I found that the Tung Sol/National tubes have punchy, controlled bass and excellent sound stage and timbre.
  Good luck tube rolling!


----------



## Dynasty62

Thanks Mordy!
   
  I will be using them with Audio Technica AD700s, which do not feature bass prominence, though the bass response is very accurate, so these tubes might be able to restore some of the bass? I am just worried about issues that other people had regarding distortion/sibilance when using the EF91s with low impedance headphones, which the AD700s are.
   
  What would you recommend as a good driver tube that features superior soundstage/instrument separation, some tube warmth/smoothness, and clarity? This would be used primarily for vocal/classical crossover (mainly female voices), symphonic music, and rock music. To deliver on the occasion action movie would also be an added bonus.
   
  So far, I was thinking of the Sylvania 5654, 6Sh1P-EV, Tung Sol 6AK5 (though it might not be from the 40s-60s) or Valve Electronic CV4010. Do any of these tubes really stand out in any way above the others for the kind of music/conditions described above?
  I'm kind of giving up on trying to acquire Amperex EF95s and Mullard m8161 Large Shields, as they are too hard to find and expensive. Any suggestions are welcome.
   
  One final question: Is upgrading the power tube from stock to Russian 6N6P-I noticeably different?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Zudeo

Hi. I purchased a Little Dot Mark III a couple months back and I think i'm ready to start Tube Rolling.  My cans are beyerdynamic DT990/600 ohm and from what i've been reading, it seems as though i'd be more satisfied with the M8100 tubes.  Am I correct to believe that the CV4010 *is* the same thing as the M8100? I'm a bit anal so it'd be cool if it actually said "Mullard" on it. lol.. but whatever. Anyways, this was the best deal I could find for them was here.  Where do all of you get your tubes from, and most importantly, is this even a great deal? Also, I listen to pretty much everything besides country. Mainly DnB, Dubstep, Rap, Rock, Trance/Electronica.

 Thanks in advance!


----------



## mordy

55M8100 is identical to CV4010; one is a civilian version, and the CV a military version. The source you have for $23.00 for a pair including shipping seems to have good feedback.
  I paid around $15.00 including shipping for a pair CV4010s a couple months ago, but this guy got smart and upped the price after several orders came in (perhaps from people on this site having seen the recommendation). IF you have patience just check E-Bay on a regular basis and you will find them cheaper - I am big believer in the $8.00 rule - never pay more than $8.00/tube.
  Valve Electronic is one of the names Mullard used. If the tube is a CV4010 and it states made in Great Britain it is most likely made by Mullard.
  I have the Audio Technica ATH-AD700 headphones and did not notice any distortion with the Mullard EF91s. (However, I much prefer speakers to headphones.)
  I bought two different Amperex EF95 tubes which probably are from the 60's. Both state Made in Great Britain and have black plates with a circular hole in the middle of the black plate and look exactly like my CV4010 tubes by Mullard. I think it is a safe bet to say that they are made by Mullard so I don't see the need to pay big bucks for the Amperex EF95 if you could get Mullard CV4010's much cheaper.
  Re the power tubes the manual states that the 6N6P-i are the stock tubes. One of my stock tubes went bad and I put in a pair of 6N6P tubes that I bought via E-Bay for around $6.00 each from somebody in Eastern Europe. I can't really hear much of a difference between the 6N6P and the 6N6P-i.
  The manufacturer of the Little Dot MkIII (David) claims that the 6H30Pi-DR power tubes will make a difference, but at a cost of $150.00 and up for a pair I feel that it defeats the purpose of a $200.00 amp. In addition, I have not heard from anybody on this forum that these power tubes are so much better. Does anybody have experience with the DR tubes?


----------



## Dynasty62

I hope the '50's Tung Sol 6AK5s complement my setup and my tastes, as I just ordered a set of them...


----------



## mordy

Good luck, and please let us know your experience with the TS tubes!


----------



## Dynasty62

Yup, will do once I get all my equipment in order... it might be a few weeks though. I can't wait to compare the TS and EF-91s!
   
  Thanks for all your help!


----------



## egoxrt

I have just rolled a pair of DR's in my MK IV SE and they have made the single greatest improvement to my system. They are matched to a pair of CV4015 large shield drivers and are just plain magnificent. The difference between the Electro Hamonix gold pins, the Russian 6N6P and the DR's is night and day, the first thing you will notice is the stage is HUGE and the separation doubles. I have AKG K702's matched with a Double Helix cable and i can hear changes to detail very clearly, the DR's seem to have a very special quality to them, please keep in mind the ones i have are early 80's tubes and might be different to the later production units.
   
  I have rolled small shield CV4015's from the 70's and 80's, these sound identical, large shield CV4015's from the 50's, similar to later ones with a warmer quality and more defined bass, CV4010 Blue glass, nothing special there. I am yet to try any of the North American tubes, but will do one day and post a detailed review on the entire lot.
  
  Quote: 





mordy said:


> 55M8100 is identical to CV4010; one is a civilian version, and the CV a military version. The source you have for $23.00 for a pair including shipping seems to have good feedback.
> I paid around $15.00 including shipping for a pair CV4010s a couple months ago, but this guy got smart and upped the price after several orders came in (perhaps from people on this site having seen the recommendation). IF you have patience just check E-Bay on a regular basis and you will find them cheaper - I am big believer in the $8.00 rule - never pay more than $8.00/tube.
> Valve Electronic is one of the names Mullard used. If the tube is a CV4010 and it states made in Great Britain it is most likely made by Mullard.
> I have the Audio Technica ATH-AD700 headphones and did not notice any distortion with the Mullard EF91s. (However, I much prefer speakers to headphones.)
> ...


----------



## mordy

Thanks for your interesting post. Do you have a good source for the the CV4015 long shield and the DR tubes?
  What is the difference between short shield and long shield tubes?
  I assume that you have to change the jumpers to use the CV4015 tubes. Personally, I found it nerve wracking for fear of dropping the tiny jumpers inside the amp.


----------



## Zudeo

Also, what are "DR" tubes? I also have a Little Dot MK III and I found your post helpful.


----------



## mordy

Tubes made in USA, Europe and Russia may be identical or similar, but each region uses different letter and number designations for their tubes.  6AK5/5654, EF95 and 6J1 respectively, have the same characteristics.
  The driver tubes for the Little Dot MkIII are made in Russia and thus have Russian designations. (I am not aware of US or European tubes that can be substituted for the Russian MkIII driver tubes.)
  Many times the Russian Cyrillic characters on the tubes are translated into English letters. The last two letters on the tube preceded by a dash ("-") denote special characteristics of the tube.
  -EV or -EB means extended service life (5,000 hours instead of the standard 2,000) and low microphonics.
  -I (which looks like a mirror imaged N in Russian) means optimized for pulsed mode (standard for the MkIII power tube.
  -DR means exceptionally long service life (10,000) hours and reliability.
   
  Here is a link to Russian tube designations:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_tube_designations
   
  Here is homework: Decipher 6ZH1P-EV (not as hard as it looks!)


----------



## egoxrt

The CV4015 large shield can be had here http://www.radio-antigua.com/cv4015m8161tuberhrevalvulanos-p-1725.html
  The 6H30DP/DR can be had here http://www.partsconnexion.com/tube_nos_6h30.html


----------



## kwang411

What are some really warm or mellow tubes you guys would suggest (it would be great if there is more emphasis on the midrange too)? I'm really trying to tone down the treble of  my HD800s.. Thanks in advance!


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





kwang411 said:


> What are some really warm or mellow tubes you guys would suggest (it would be great if there is more emphasis on the midrange too)? I'm really trying to tone down the treble of  my HD800s.. Thanks in advance!


 


  I'd try the Mullard CV4010.  I found them to have really liquidy midrange, but were a little rolled off at both ends.


----------



## kwang411

Sorry I forgot to mention that I already have the Mullard M8100 and M8161, butI still don't think they are warm enough.
  I want tubes that are rolled off in the top end, I'm willing to sacrifice some details..
  I read that the Amperex 6AK5 tubes are really warm? Are there any other suggestions? Thanks!
  
  Quote: 





leesure said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## eugeneyou

im totally new here.

   

  what do i need for getting MKIII? DAC? IPOD DOCK?


----------



## mordy

I have two Amperex 6AK5 tubes. Both are made in Gt Britain and look like Mullard tubes with the round hole in the plate. One on them has the bugle boy logo. To me they don't sound better than the CV4010 tubes. The sound is very detailed with a nice midrange, but both the top and the bottom seems rolled off, and the sound is too thin for me. The bass is accurate, but there is no punch or slam.
  How did you find the original equipment GE5654 tubes with your headphones? To me these tubes are less detailed but have a lush midrange and a rolled off top.
  As stated in earlier posts, I usually listen to speakers and use the MkIII as a tube buffer, feeding into a solid state receiver. Many times I find that the tubes I am using require more or less treble or bass with certain recordings. For this purpose I use the tone controls on my receiver with good results. Perhaps there is a way to add tone controls even if you are listening to the MkIII directly through your headphones.


----------



## mordy

All you need are headphones and any music source such as IPod, CD player, MP3 player, PC, AM/FM radio etc. You need a cable to connect these sources to the MkIII, and that's it.


----------



## kwang411

Hey thanks for your input. I'm coming from LD mk IV SE actually, so it came with Mullard CV4010s and not GE5654. Do you think the GE tubes are lusher than the Mullard CV4010s?
  Maybe I'll give the GE5654s a try, are they just normal Ge5654 or are they the 5-stars version?
   
  I'm running my system using my desktop, so I'm only using Foobar to EQ my HD800s.
  
  Quote: 





mordy said:


> I have two Amperex 6AK5 tubes. Both are made in Gt Britain and look like Mullard tubes with the round hole in the plate. One on them has the bugle boy logo. To me they don't sound better than the CV4010 tubes. The sound is very detailed with a nice midrange, but both the top and the bottom seems rolled off, and the sound is too thin for me. The bass is accurate, but there is no punch or slam.
> How did you find the original equipment GE5654 tubes with your headphones? To me these tubes are less detailed but have a lush midrange and a rolled off top.
> As stated in earlier posts, I usually listen to speakers and use the MkIII as a tube buffer, feeding into a solid state receiver. Many times I find that the tubes I am using require more or less treble or bass with certain recordings. For this purpose I use the tone controls on my receiver with good results. Perhaps there is a way to add tone controls even if you are listening to the MkIII directly through your headphones.


----------



## eugeneyou

where can I get the cable.any decent cable?better cable?so no DAC needed?


----------



## leesure

Just got a pair of old Tung Sol's.  Very nice!  They really seem to get out of the way and let the music shine through.  It was only about 5 minutes before I stopped listening to the tubes and just let the music wash over me. 
   
  They are not the rolled off top end that kwang411's looking for, tho.  Sorry.
   
  But for the rest of us, the veil was lifted.  Really nice tubes.  Unfortunately, I'm getting a hum from one of them.  If I tap on the tube it goes away for a while, but eventually comes back.   Might be worth the aggravation, they are so good.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





eugeneyou said:


> where can I get the cable.any decent cable?better cable?so no DAC needed?


 


  No DAC needed.  Any stereo store will have a mini (male) to RCA (male) wire.  Monster cable makes one.  Otherwise, the same stores will have a mini-RCA (female)  adapter to which you can add any RCA cables you would like.\
   
  Alternatively, you can go online and order a LOD to RCA cable for your iPod.


----------



## mordy

So far I like the Tung Sol tubes the best. They invented the 6AK5 tube in 1943. I have several sets, and they do sound a little different, but most have in common a strong punchy bass, and the best ones have a beautiful detailed layered midrange with shimmering highs. There is an unusual tube with a side getter and the getter flash (silver coating) on the wall of the tube and not on top; others have square getters or "street car" getters.
  One post stated that the best ones are the 40's Tung Sols, but I can't really say. Many of the Tung Sol tubes I have don't have any dates or date codes that I can see or read.
  Anyhow, it's worth trying the TS tubes. With a little patience you can find them on E-Bay for a couple of bucks. I hope that I don't insult any tube audiophiles, but many times I get beautiful sound when I use two different tubes - just forget about the "matching" myth as long as the volume is the same on each channel.
  Have fun!


----------



## mordy

I have a couple of 5***** GE tubes - don't find them to be extra special. I think that they were engineered for longer service life (10,000 hours?) I would go with the regular GE5654. One post said to avoid the GE tubes made after 1980.
  Tried to find out how the GE tubes are date coded, but did not get too far with the letter designations. Many tubes have the dates printed straight forward such as 62/33, meaning the 33rd week 1962. Other tubes may have a two letter code. The first letter is the month, the second letter is the year.
  For the months the letters A-M were used (skipping I) or N-Z. In other words, January could be A or N as the first letter, February B or O and so on.
  The second letter denotes the year; G is 1980, H 1981, K 1982 and L 1983 and so on.
  The letter code AH or NH would both denote January 1981.
  If somebody has better information on the GE date codes or wants to correct me it is appreciated.
   
  Regarding the question of comparing the GE5654 to Mullard CV4010 I can only say that the GE tubes are nice and the Mullard very nice. The GE midrange is lush and  beautiful, but the CV4010 sound better across the spectrum with better performance at the low end and top end. Again, YMMV depending on your equipment.


----------



## Zudeo

Hi egoxrt,
   
  Where did you get your 6H30P-DR's from?  I'm trying to look for a pair but i'm unsure of the best store online for price and legitimacy.
  Quote: 





egoxrt said:


> I have just rolled a pair of DR's in my MK IV SE and they have made the single greatest improvement to my system. They are matched to a pair of CV4015 large shield drivers and are just plain magnificent. The difference between the Electro Hamonix gold pins, the Russian 6N6P and the DR's is night and day, the first thing you will notice is the stage is HUGE and the separation doubles. I have AKG K702's matched with a Double Helix cable and i can hear changes to detail very clearly, the DR's seem to have a very special quality to them, please keep in mind the ones i have are early 80's tubes and might be different to the later production units.
> 
> I have rolled small shield CV4015's from the 70's and 80's, these sound identical, large shield CV4015's from the 50's, similar to later ones with a warmer quality and more defined bass, CV4010 Blue glass, nothing special there. I am yet to try any of the North American tubes, but will do one day and post a detailed review on the entire lot.
> 
> ...


----------



## AlexRoma

Well.. Here are my 2 cents of experience for the thread : 
   
   
  I used 3 different tubes with my MKIII  :  Mullard CV4010 ,  Russian groove 6J1P-VE and Stock GE..  
   
  After some detailed A-to-B comparison with my Solid State DAC/AMP here are my subjective results for my ears :
   
  Mullard CV4010 M8100:
  MidBass : No changes
  Mids : + 2 db
  Treble : - 2 db
   
  Russian 6J1P-EV :
  MidBass :  + 6db 
  Mids : + 2db
  Treble : - 2db 
   
  Stock GE5654 Tubes : 
  MidBass : + 2 db
  Mids : + 5 db
  Treble : -4 db
   
  For low gain (3,4) settings I prefer Russian , for high Gain (10) - Mullards..
 Stock GE are overall worse. They have the poorest extension and poor detail in direct comparison
   
   
  None of this 3 tubes are warm enough to equalize DT990 headphones, their trebles still cause my ears bleed. I am not gonna recommend this tube amp as a solution for really bright headphones. The results are not as impressive as I expected 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  I think, I change my mind if I could get my hands on really warm tubes, capable of reducing the 6khz-10 khz region with at least 5db, and have the spectrum extension of CV4010-s..


----------



## leesure

> None of this 3 tubes are warm enough to equalize DT990 headphones, their trebles still cause my ears bleed. I am not gonna recommend this tube amp as a solution for really bright headphones. The results are not as impressive as I expected
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Might I suggest switching headphones rather than searching for an amp with an intentionally flawed top end to tame the cans?  What about the DT880's?  I keep hearing that the mids are the same as the DT990, but the treble is much warmer.


----------



## Zudeo

I have a question about the stock 6H6PI Power Tubes that come with the LD MK III.  Are they only in use if I use the LD MK III as a pre-amp or do they affect the sound if I connect the MK III to my soundcard or a DAC. 

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## mordy

My best guess is that if you removed the power tubes the preamp would not work. As I understand it, the preamp works as a package, and anything you connect to it is going to be influenced by the sound signature of the four tubes.


----------



## mordy

One of my stock 6H6P-i power tubes burnt out and I had a set of 6N6P tubes sitting around (around $4 each). Substituting these the sound was OK, but when I finally got a replacement set of the 6H6P-i tubes from Siberia, Russia ($6 each), I realized that these are better with punchier and better defined bass.
  Still holding out trying to find the 6H30-DR tubes at a reasonable cost; however, I came across another tube called 6N6P-IR which costs around $25 each. Does anybody have any experience with these tubes and how they compare to the 6H30-DR tubes?


----------



## Dynasty62

My Review/Impressions of the LD MkIII and some tubes can be found here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/536556/review-little-dot-mkiii-amplifier


----------



## Dynasty62

So I'm listening to the Tung Sol 6AK5s right now after about 8 hours of burn in. I notice that the sound is pretty accurate and powerful. There is punchy bass, but I do notice that the highs can sound pretty sibilant at times. Perhaps this is just due to my not burning in enough yet, as well as my ADH700 headphones, which do put a slight emphasis on high-end sparkle. As of now, these do not sound as warm, full, and "liquidy" as the stock tubes, but they are definitely more accurate sounding, especially on complex passages. I probably should burn these in a little more and reaudition them. I still have to try tube rolling my Amperex EF95, Amperex 5654W, and Mullard EF91 and do a comparison.


----------



## mordy

I have similar experiences with the Tung Sol tubes. However, different Tung Sol tubes sound different, and some of them have a more mellow upper range, still retaining the punchy base and the detailed, layered and accurate sound - it's just trial and error. (One post liked the early TS tubes from 1945.)
  I am also able to "tame" the sibilance using the treble control on my receiver, admittedly listening through speakers.


----------



## Dynasty62

What are the warmest, fullest sounding driver tubes anyone has heard for the LD mkIII ?


----------



## leesure

Lol...I just posted about this thread in your review thread...as to lush warm and tubby, try your Mullards...just don't expect 'sparkly' highs. Best I've found top to bottom are the Western Electric 6AK5's, but I've been looking for the Amperex's and haven't heard them yet.


----------



## Dynasty62

So I notice there are some char- like marks / rings that are forming on top of my tubes. Strangely enough, it seems to only be happening to one channel and not the other. Is this normal, or is there a problem that I can avoid? Do people have these markings on their tubes too? The power tube is developing a noticeable ring, whereas it looks like the driver tube is getting burned. How hot do these things normally run? I touched one of the driver tubes once, and I thought I had almost burned myself because it was so scalding hot. I did move the jumper to the EF92 position to test out another set of tubes, but moved them back to the EF95 position when i switched back, however, the jumper is in the correct place and all the way in.


----------



## mordy

Funny; I had a pair of Western Electric 403A tubes, and they sounded very detailed, but thin and shrill, and I did not like them. Two days ago I was going through my stash of tubes and suddenly realized that I had another two WE tubes from 1953 and 1957 (identical, except for year of manufacture).
  Revelation: these tubes sounded really sweet and involving with very good bass, and right now they are on the top of my list. The Tung Sols still have punchier bass, but the midrange is sweeter with the WEs.
  I guess the lesson is that you may have to try out more than one pair of the same tube to get the sound you like.
   
  Now, about black rings etc.: I have a set of Mullard CV4010 that one tube became black on top instead of silver. After reading up on Google it seems that black is OK; it does not seem to make much of a change in the sound, although I may imagine that the volume is a tad lower on this side. A tube that turns white inside is finished - kaput, which has also happened to me.


----------



## mordy

Funny; I tried a pair of Western Electric 403A tubes, and they sounded very detailed, but thin and shrill, and I did not like them. Two days ago I was going through my stash of tubes and suddenly realized that I had another two WE tubes from 1953 and 1957 (identical, except for year of manufacture).
  Revelation: these tubes sounded really sweet and involving with very good bass, and right now they are on the top of my list. The Tung Sols still have punchier bass, but the midrange is sweeter with the WEs.
  I guess the lesson is that you may have to try out more than one pair of the same tube to get the sound you like.
   
  Now, about black rings etc.: I have a set of Mullard CV4010 that one tube became black on top instead of silver. After reading up on Google it seems that black is OK; it does not seem to make much of a change in the sound, although I may imagine that the volume is a tad lower on this side. A tube that turns white inside is finished - kaput, which has also happened to me.
   
  I found that my MkIII ran much hotter when I tried a pair of EF91 tubes (EF92 setting), but with EF95 type driver tubes the MKIII doesn't get very hot and I can touch them without burning myself. However, the power tubes get very hot, and I am careful not to touch them lest I burn myself.


----------



## KMASCII

Dynasty62: did those marks just develop or were they there when you got the tubes? I don't think it's anything to worry about and could be related to the manufacture of the tubes. See post #1745 by erikzen on page 117 of this thread.
   
  Also to mordy: were those earlier versions (1953 & 1957) of the WE 403 also 403A's, or were they the 403B versions?


----------



## mordy

I only have 403A versions. I think I remember that one post stated that both versions (403A and 403B) sound similar; it is only that the 403B was made to last longer.


----------



## Dynasty62

They developed as I continued to burn the tubes in, however, there was no degradation of sound quality to my knowledge, and it doesn't look like any more marks are being produced, so I don't think I'll worry about it either. 
   
  My favorite tubes so far are the Amperex 6AK5 EF95 Bugle Boys. They sound pretty warm, with very good sound stage and a sweet, lush sound signature. Also, they roll off the high trebles quite a bit, which definitely help with my bright-sounding headphones. The Amperex 5654 6AK5W have a similar sound signature, especially as they are burning in, but then start developing an emphasis on the highs, which I found to be sibilant and detracting from the overall sound. The Mullard EF91 tubes definitely had the most detail and power, with a very very impressive soundstage/imaging capability, but unfortunately, one of my tubes was microphonic. The highs also were slightly overbearing through my cans, and I found them a little clinical compared to the Amperex, despite superior imaging capabilities.


----------



## mordy

I have two Amperex tubes 6AK5; actually one each of the ones you describe. They are from 1964 and 1968 and are made in Gt Britain, and look physically the same as my Mullard CV4010s, so I wonder if they actually just are Mullard tubes. (In my set-up this "pair" of Amperex Bugle Boy and EF95 are OK, but not great. It is possible that a real pair of the Bugle Boys would sound better. The CV4010s which are the same as the M8100 tubes sound very good).
  I agree with you about the overbearing quality of the Mullard EF91s. Somebody else on this forum also had the same impression: In the beginning they impress, but after a while they are too much somehow.


----------



## evilsword

Anyone know the differences of Mullard M8161 and M8100 on Little Dot MKIII? I want an upgrade from the stock tubes but can't decide which one to get


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





evilsword said:


> Anyone know the differences of Mullard M8161 and M8100 on Little Dot MKIII? I want an upgrade from the stock tubes but can't decide which one to get


 

 The M8161 is from the EF92 family and the M8100 is from the EF95 family.  Jumpers must be switched.  Different tubes both great.


----------



## Sweden

Anyone who have any Telefunken CV131, EF92 Amperex Bugle Boys, 6Zh1P-EV, 5654 Sylvania Gold Brands or some nice sounding Tung Sol tubes that they can think of selling?


----------



## evilsword

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Any ideas on the differences in terms of sound signature between the m8161 and m8100?


----------



## KMASCII

@ evilsword: I haven't listened to these tubes in a while, but I'll give them a listen this evening.


----------



## qubyts

on german ebay some equivalent power tubes ....
   
http://global.ebay.com/4_x_6N6P_ECC99_E182CC_Priboy_Little_Dot_Tube_amp/370481013379/item
   
   
  And i wonder if this works too...
   
http://global.ebay.com/4_x_6C19_Svetlana_Triode_Little_Dot_Headphone_amp_6C19P/390285616331/item


----------



## mordy

The 6N6P tube will work, but the 6H6P-i (OEM) sounds a little better IMHO. If you want to try the 6N6P tube you can get it cheaper from Russian and East European sources on E-Bay.
  I have never heard of the 6C19 tube before. Perhaps David of Little Dot can give advice.
  BTW, I found a new variant listed on E-Bay of the Russian 6J1P-EV driver tube that uses gold-platinum wiring. Cost including shipping is $15/pair. Does anybody have experience with this driver tube? (Link below)
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130436695928&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
        


     
  Image not available


----------



## KMASCII

@ evilsword: Neglected to reply to my post. Unfortunately I cannot locate my M8100's. However, the M8161's are a tubier sound than either the TungSol JTL 6AK5 or the GE 5star 6AK5. Where either of those tubes can sound a bit overly detailed and steely (but not grainy), the M8161 doesn't accent the highs as much. But, the M8161 are still capable of conveying a bit of sparkle. This is my impression only. I normally look for a more laid back sound in my equipment and primarily listen with HD650's. I like the M8161's more that the GE5stars, and only slightly more than the TungSol JTL's. Unfortunately, I cannot locate my M8100's and cannot compare these after all. Sorry. On an aside, I'm ordering a pair of WE 403B's to sample.


----------



## mordy

Noted that you misplaced the 8100 tubes - hope you will find them again. Anyhow, IMHO you cannot have too many tubes, and in a few months I bought a whole bunch of tubes, always looking for the ones that have everything - strong bass, luscious midrange and shimmering highs; detail without being analytical. But where do you store them so that you can find them easily?
  Many of the old boxes are very fragile and tear easily; others have all kinds of packaging inserts. Then you have all different sizes of boxes, and then the unmarked ones etc etc. Better to store the tubes without the boxes, but how?
  Being of an age where the day starts taking all kinds of medical pills, I thought of a large pill box with a compartment for each day. I had a large size that held, you guessed it, three and half pairs. OK, so two boxes would hold seven of your favorite pairs. I would put little white address labels on the individual lids and then I write the manufacturer's name and the designation of the tube, the year it was made, and so on. This worked fine, until I bought a couple of lots and had several dozen pairs to store. How do I organize and store them without spending a fortune?
  After trips to Walmart and the hardware store I found the solution. For $6.00 I bought a plastic parts box for screws and nuts etc. (A plastic box with compartments for fishing tackle may also work well.) The box I bought (made by Flambeu, model #5004) has well over 40 compartments that each hold two-three tubes. The partitions are movable, so you can pull them out as you wish, and put six or eight tubes in one compartment. Before buying I took a pair of tubes with me to make sure that they would fit standing up. In order that they should not rattle around when the box is being moved I put little pieces of styrofoam "peanuts" between the tubes.
  The top of the box is see through plastic, and there I stick on my handwritten stickers. Everything organized and easy to find. Only one problem now: How do I get them out of the little compartments with clumsy fingers?
  This is still a work in progress, but meanwhile I took off the silicon grip from the barrel of a cheap pen. This piece is soft and has a hole in it. I pinch the silicon barrel and grab the little glass tip of the tube and lift it out. Works, but maybe somebody has a better idea....
  Have fun!
  BTW, I finally found a tube that has all the qualities I mentioned above: Mullard EF95/CV850 from the late fifties. These tubes are so good that I stopped listening to the tubes and what is right or wrong with them, and I am just enjoying the music! They just sound totally right!


----------



## KMASCII

That's a good idea, with the parts box. Something to label is great though isn't it. I'm a bit of a woodworker and have been meaning to build a small cabinet with drawers. I also own the Audiotailor Jade and have several tubes for that amp as well.
   
  I received my WE 403b's a couple days ago. These, so far, are proving to have just a tad less midrange imaging than the M8161's. But I'm not sure, because the lower treble is more smooth and controlled which is a great bonus for me. But this is early yet and only have about 4 or 5 hours listening on them. I suspect though that these may replace my M8161's as a favorite. I should also note that my LD MKIII is quite modded with alternative aftermarket capacitors. I've replaced the WIMA caps with a pair of Auricaps and a pair of Obbligatos. I also replaced the Chemcon output caps with larger voltage Nichicons. I didn't really mind the MKIII in its stock configuration. But I wanted something a little more tubey sounding and with better imaging in the treble range.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Gday everyone read the whole thread. Love my mkiii love tube rolling. One thing I can add to the 6n6p vs 6n6pi debate, I have found the 6n6p very useful in moderating bright or harsh tubes. Favorite combo at the moment is raytheon jan 6ak5w 1953 with no mica support plates and 6n6p very clean and detailed sound which was a little bright with the 6n6pi


----------



## mordy

Thanks for your post - tried out your recipe with the 6N6P driver tubes and Raytheon driver tubes. The sound was very poor with a dull midrange and rolled off highs and lows - not what I wanted. Then I took a look at the Raytheon tubes: these had the full mica support and a date code of 243 (43rd week 1962?) But you specified without the mica support. I again looked in my stash and found two such tubes that looked like they were from the 50's - one 6AK5 and the other one a 5654 (Date code 142 on the 5654; cannot read it on the 6AK5). (Mix and match!) Anyhow, they looked very similar in construction. Cranked up my system; WOW!  Beautiful rich sound and a very powerful detailed bass.  Good soundstage, good highs (still slightly bright) but great overall, and probably the strongest, cleanest and most powerful bass of all the tubes I have.     My present favorite combination is the Mullard EF95/CV850 with the 6N6p-I tubes. To me this combination is so good that I stopped listening to the tubes and I am just enjoying the music!                
  Anyhow, what you propose is excellent and very enjoyable -thanks!


----------



## Dogmatrix

Thanks for the thanks I agree with you on the cv850 I have the whyteleaf variety they would easily be the most tube like tubes I have, very fluid with heaps of head room almost re-verb most pleasurable with jazz vocal.
  My tube of the month is telefunken highly recommended, very strong delivery across the spectrum if they have any fault to my ears they are so perfect they are a little boring not much tube character
  Final word a tip for anyone with ambient temperature concerns, after much trial and error I have found the combination of a lap top cooler pad under a wire rack most effective in ambient temperatures from 30c to 40c.


----------



## mordy

Glad that you agree with me on the 850 tubes. I have both the Whyteleafe and Mitcham variants, but c
  annot say yet if one is better than the other. I read that the Telefunken tubes sound almost solid state, so I did not bother to buy them, but if I find them cheap I may try them. One source stated that they are extremely long lasting, although I don't know if that applies to the EF95 variants. Re cooling of the MkIII I found that different tubes run hotter than others. Once I tried EF91 Mullards, and the amp got almost too hot to touch. Had three old aluminum cones (feet) from my 80's Hi-Fi, and put them under the amp in a triangle configuration. There is an inch or so of space under it, and this seems to keep the amp cool. With EF95 family tubes it never gets really hot. Do you have any experience with the cheaper variants of the power tubes, compared to the $200/pair DR tubes? (I am referring to 6H30P-IR or similar ones). Lastly, how can I tell from a Mullard date code if it is the 50's or 60's?
  R


----------



## Dogmatrix

Never tried the 6h30, one day, probably the sovtek I have seen them for around $20 a piece, I have been watching some 6n6p-ir which seem to be an ultra rugged 6n6 but they have been too expensive for a try out
   
  Date codes on the other hand, I find the where and when one of the best parts of tube collecting
  The theory is that back in the old days old tubes were not seen as a good thing everyone wanted nice fresh tubes so the makers invented various code systems. Tung sol have a secret gap code general electric have cryptic dots. Mullard codes are deliberately vague, government issue tubes are easy as they have a two letter code as well as the etched factory code, domestic mullards persisted with the four figure etched code well into the 70's so a r3d5 could be 53 63 or 73. There are clues in the font style and box design but it is more art than science and just to confuse things further there is all the re branding that went on but that's another chapter.


----------



## Gatepc

Just in case anyones interested I tested the frequency response of my Mullard M8161 (1981) I don't know how useful this data is but here it is for those who wish to see.


----------



## TMRaven

I have a Little Dot MKII with the DT990 600Ω, and I was wondering what would be the best set of driver tubes and/or power tubes that would do best what I want?  I was astounded at the amount of separation and soundstage a decently amped 990 600Ω provided over the AD700 with its famously large soundstage.  Even though the DT990 600Ω doesn't seem quite as distant, the overall layering and imaging seems far superior, giving a much more convincing and appealing soundstage.  I'd like to have some tubes that even further that.  The treble actually isn't too sharp to me at all, so having tubes that further tame them isn't at the top of my priorities.  I think the midrange is fine, but it wouldn't hurt to have a more warm midrange.  What I also really am looking for is for a deeper extending bass that's either tighter and/or provides more punch.
   
  What are my best options?  So far my main candidates are a pair of Mullard EF92 driver tubes.


----------



## Vain

Hey all!
   
  I am really sorry if this has been answered but there is 158 pages to go through, easy to miss some info!
  I have a pair of Ultrasone Pro 900 and am wondering if anyone have tested which tubes works good with them? They can be a bit harsh on the treble and have somewhat recessed mids.
   
  Would be grateful if anyone had an answer!


----------



## blacknile

Hi guys,
   
  I'm looking into buying a pair of mullar 8100 NOS for my LD MK III and was wondering if you can help. Are these are what I'm looking for 
   
   
   
   

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/M8100-CV4010-6AK5W-MULLARD-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-/310282214423?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item483e42dc17#ht_500wt_1156
   
  There's no "Mullard" label on the actual tubes...Are these actual Mullard or something else?


----------



## blacknile

Can anyone help?


----------



## Gatepc

Those look like what your looking for to me. I really like the M8100s very good mids.


----------



## SunSing

Hi,
   
  Those are exactly what you are looking for, I bought mine few month ago from the same seller for my LD MK III.
   
  Cheers
  Janne


----------



## britt2001b

Hello
   
  I also purchased the Mullard CV4010's for my Little Dot MKIII a few months ago from the same seller. I agree with Gatepc, these tubes deliver excellent mids. It's my understanding these are Mullard military issue, thus no printing of the Mullard name on the tube. These tubes really began to shine after about 50 hours of burn in. 
   
  I'm currently burning in a couple of NIB Sylvania GB 5654's that I just purchased for only $30 for the pair from another seller on Ebay. He only had 2 pair to sell and I'm kicking myself for not ordering the second pair. The remaining pair listed several days after my purchase and now are sold out. Apparently these usually go for a much higher price and are hard to find. So far, early within the burn in, they are not as warm as the CV4010's but they deliver crystal clean highs, tighter bass, and a _very_ _large_ sound stage. Cymbals from well recorded music sound wonderful with these tubes. Also, I'm hearing more overtones produced from various instruments. The added push to the highs are welcomed to my aging ears as my high end hearing is diminishing with my age. 
   
  I envision myself alternating between the CV4010's and the GB5654's since there is no need for the jumper placement for the MKIII.


----------



## mordy

Hi,
   
  Personally, I do not yet own the Sylvania Gold Brand 5654 tubes. However, I have Sylvania Jan 5654 tubes that sound exactly the way britt2001b describes above in post 2369 {crystal clear highs, tighter bass and a very large sound stage}. The ones I have are Military Stock number 5960-045-8639 and Contract number DSA 900-67-C-9983 where 67 indicates 1967. I paid around $3 each on E-Bay a couple months ago.
  I remembered a post on Head-Fi about these tubes and finally found it: Post  #626 from 4/18/08 on page 42,  which I am quoting below:
   
   
   
  "Thanks to Ethebull, who's listening judgment mirrors my own (even though he uses K701s) and his ability to find things I might have missed.

 This time, while I was busy freaking out about the Sylvania GB-5654 Gold Brand tubes (they are amazing), Ethebull found the military stock version, ordered them and tested them and reported back that they were incredible. His description of them was so close to my description of the GB's, I just had to get a pair or two for further study.

 They are here! Military Stock number 5960-00-134-6031, Contract number DSA900-75-A-0040. They are Sylvania JAN 5654W. They have black plates and a round halo getter, attached with one post. The printing on the tube is either in green or blue, with the 5654W marking in grey (hard to read). The boxes have a date packed of 12-75. When mine arrived, I did a direct comparison visually with the GB-5654's, to see if I could see a difference. There was only one difference, the GB-5654's have gold pins. THAT IS ALL!!

 A quick test in my MKIVse tells me that right out of the box, these tubes sound so close to the GB-5654's, I'm not sure I could tell the difference in a more structured testing. They are burning in and I will post a final comparison in a more controlled situation, but for now, I can easily tell these inexpensive 5654W's are the tube to have. I got mine, 4 tubes for $16 on eBay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











 I will also try these in my MKII and MKIII, but I expect the same results.

 Because several eBay sellers watch my postings, and appear to be using them as a guide post for what tubes to sell at a much higher price, I'm implementing and recommending to all, the $8 per tube rule (a time honored rule of thumb). If you see these tubes for more than $8 per tube, don't buy them. "
   
   
   
  IMHO, based on the above, it is safe to say that Sylvania JAN 5654 tubes with Black Plate and Halo getter with stock numbers 5960/DSA900 should sound the same as the Sylvania Gold at a significantly lower price.
  Would be interested to hear other people's opinions on this topic.


----------



## britt2001b

Thanks for finding and reposting the info about the JAN 5654's Mordy. I ordered a pair of these tonight from an Ebay seller to use as back-ups for the Sylvania GB5654's. Your right, the price was significantly lower, only $18.00 for the pair. It appears these are more common and easier to find. I'll break them in when they arrive for comparison purposes. I'll be happy if only they are only close to the quality of the Gold Brands. 
   
  I really don't want to get into using the jumpers, but I've also got the bug to try the Mullard M8161's based on the comments posted on this thread. I'm sure I will break down and give those a try also before too much longer. This thread has been costly to my pocket book!


----------



## britt2001b

The Sylvania JAN 5654's arrived super fast! The boxes are marked 5960-045-8639 Cont. No. DSA 900-67-C-9983. 
   
  I am very impressed after only 8hrs. of break-in. They sound very nice straight from the box. 
   
  A quick, early observation.....a more natural sibilance than the GB's. If this remains through-out the burn-in, it's likely that I will continue to use these and use the GB's as back-up!. My headphones are the Sony MDR 7506's and a harsh sibilance has always been characteristic although I like every other aspect of the headphones. I just got comfortable with these after years of use. They were used as reference while recording and mixing live musicians.
   
  I wasn't really listening for the sibilance characteristics, it just jumped out at me while listening to The Beatles "Lady Madonna" from the remastered "Past Masters" cd. About 50 seconds in, McCartney sings "......wonders how you manage to feed the rest." The word "rest" is extended "reeeeeeeeeeeeSt" with a final vocal push on the "S". This is what jumped out at me. It sounded very natural. I have never noticed this before after years of listening to this song. 
   
  I don't want to only give credit to the tubes. I'm convinced the "Little Dot MKIII" is the driving force behind the exceptional sound. It appears a nice set of tubes can really bring out the superior qualities of the amp.


----------



## mordy

Glad to hear that you are able to confirm that the Sylvania Jan 5960/DSA900 tubes are the same as the Sylvania Gold. IMHO these tubes are the soundstage champions with the MkIII amp.
  From time to time, these military Sylvania tubes come up on E-Bay at very good prices, and there is no need to pay highly inflated prices for the Sylvania Gold tubes.
   
  As mentioned many times before, each individual setup may benefit especially from certain tubes, but nevertheless, a few tubes and tube combinations are much better than others in most instances.
   
  In the future I would like to write a few comments on My favorite Mullard tubes as well as another combination that yields excellent sound.


----------



## britt2001b

I agree with your opinion that the Sylvania Jan 5960/DSA900 are the soundstage champions. The soundstage is definately wider that any other driver tubes I have sampled. I have stayed with my Sony MDR 7506's because of their strong imaging capabilites and these tubes enhance this further. The opening bass drum hits from The Beach Boy's "Let's Go Away For A While" from the stereo version of "Pet Sounds" sounds as if it is actually 50 feet to your left. The sound stage is incredible on this recording!
   
  I'm still hearing improvement after 20 hours of break-in. The bass is tightening quite well, the mids are a joy, and the high end is still very natural. The tubes work well with my 7506's, as mentioned above, because of the harsh sibilance of the headphones. These tubes clear this harshness perfectly. For this reason, these Sylvania's will probably be my primary driver tubes. 
   
  I am eager to hear your Mullard comments as I still want to try the M8161's out of curiosity. From what I gather from earlier postings, it appears these tubes will deliver more of the classic tube sound. But as for now the Sylvania 5960/DSA900's are the perfect compliment to my Sony MDR 7506's. Thanks again for your observations and suggestions.


----------



## Vain

I just bought a new pair of tubes, Mullard M8161 and I noticed that the vocals are much stronger (louder?) on the left side. I tried to switch the tubes around but no difference and I did remember to move the pins to EF92. Is this something that evens out as they burn in or is something wrong?


----------



## Gatepc

vain said:


> I just bought a new pair of tubes, Mullard M8161 and I noticed that the vocals are much stronger (louder?) on the left side. I tried to switch the tubes around but no difference and I did remember to move the pins to EF92. Is this something that evens out as they burn in or is something wrong?




If you've switched the tubes and it did not make a difference then its not the tubes its either your Source,Headphones, Or Ears either way its something I would check into.

Try checking your source first, just swap the Left and Right interconnects and see if its still on the same side if its not then its your cables or your Source. If nothing changes then try different headphones, if there is still no difference its either your power tubes or your ears.


----------



## sonda2008

Or the amp itself.


----------



## musedesign

Please excuse the off topic question.
   
  I am interested in buying a Little Dot MkIII, who is the best vendor to purchase?  Does it matter where I buy the amp, if I am interested in in tube rolling?  Was thinking there might be vendor who sells the Little Dot MkIII and tubes for rolling
   
  Have found the Little Dot MkIII at Audiophile China, for $199, plus $59 shipping, $258 total (shipping to California, USA)
http://www.audiophilechina.com/cp-show.asp?C_id=26&S_id2=2&s_id=24
   
  Thank you


----------



## mordy

Buy it directly from the manufacturer - best price ($199 + $45 shipping), warranty,  and service.
   
  Read some of the recent posts for the best tubes for tube rolling and buy on E-Bay. Remember the golden rule for tubes: Don't pay more than $8.00 each including shipping!
   
  Here is the E-Bay link to the David Zhen who is the manufacturer:
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/Little-Dot-MK-III-3-Headphone-Tube-Amplifier-Pre-Amp-/200610484948?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb55112d4


----------



## mordy

A litle more on Mullard tubes:
   
  I do not have experience with the Mullard 8161 tube (other designations of this tube are CV4015 and EF92).
   
  I did try another Mullard tube, the EF91 (blue glass)/CV4014/M8083. Both of these tubes (8161/EF91) require you to change the jumpers in the Little Dot MkIII to the EF92 setting.
   
  At first the EF91 tubes sounded impressive with forceful bass, but after a while they became grating with a rough unpleasant quality to the bass, and I felt relieved when I switched them out.
   
  Now to the EF95 family tubes from Mullard: M8100/CV4010 and EF95/CV850.
   
  There are several inexpensive offerings of CV4010 tubes on E-Bay in white boxes with the name Valve Electronic. They look just like the Mullard tubes, complete with the little round plastic pin protectors. However, these are made by a company called Amalgamated in Sydney, Australia. If the tube or box says SDA among the markings, they are made in Australia. IMHO these tubes are OK, but not nearly as good as the British made CV4010s.
   
  All the British made tubes that I have of these variants (CV850 and CV4010) have some kind of symbol on them that looks like an upside down V with a vertical line in the middle ("crowfoot"). These tubes have a wonderful warm tube sound with deep bass and shimmering highs, with a beautiful mid range. Listening to music using these tubes and the 6N6Pi power tubes the sound is so "right" that I stop listening to how the tubes sound and just enjoy to the music. (The only drawback I can think of is that the bass is a little better defined with a different tube combination; more on that later.)
   
  Funny that it took me so long to find the ideal tube (for my taste), especially since David Zhen of Little Dot recommends the M8100....It could be that I thought that the Australian made CV4010 tubes were the same as the Mullards, and therefore I did not check out the British made CV4010 tube variants until much later.
   
  Anyhow, it was a fun journey to check out the RCA, Sylvania, Tung Sol/National, GE, Western Electric, Raytheon, and Russian tubes!


----------



## blacknile

Hi Mordy, thank you so much for the informative post. Just to be sure, are the following the Australian-made cv4010  you refer to
   
   
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/M8100-CV4010-6AK5W-MULLARD-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-/310282214423?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item483e42dc17#ht_500wt_1156
   
  Cheers
   
  Quote: 





mordy said:


> A litle more on Mullard tubes:
> 
> I do not have experience with the Mullard 8161 tube (other designations of this tube are CV4015 and EF92).
> 
> ...


----------



## musedesign

Quote:


mordy said:


> Buy it directly from the manufacturer - best price ($199 + $45 shipping), warranty,  and service.
> 
> Read some of the recent posts for the best tubes for tube rolling and buy on E-Bay. Remember the golden rule for tubes: Don't pay more than $8.00 each including shipping!
> 
> ...


 

 Mordy,
    Thank you for the reply!


----------



## britt2001b

I would also recommend purchasing the Little Dot MKIII directly from the manufacturer as I did. The customer service was exceptional. David kept me well informed and promptly answered all my questions. It's my understanding, once ordered, the unit is ran for several hours for break-in and quality assurance. With this, it still arrived from China within 2 weeks. 
   
  Thanks again Mordy for the info about the CV4010's. I believe I have the Amalgamated version's as you described although the box or tubes do not have SDA among the markings. One side of the tube has these markings: "000-4010    CV4010    KQDD/K    84-18." The other side of the tube states: "592    R3C3." They were purchased from the same seller that blacknile inquired about. 
   
  Although I was overjoyed about the sound these tubes provided, I am really having fun listening to my favorite music with the Sylvania 5654's. To my ears, the JAN's (that you recommended) sound better than the Gold Brands. I didn't expect this as I ordered the JAN's only as a back up for the GB's. So, your recommendations are highly regarded by me. I will have to try the "Mullard" M8100's based on your observations. I intended to try the Mullard M8161's next but I think I will try the Mullard version of the M8100's instead.
   
  I will eventually end this madness and settle on 1 or 2 pair of tubes but I sure am enjoying those JAN Sylvania's right now! As you, I find myself listening to the music instead of the tubes. This is good!


----------



## sonda2008

Quote: 





mordy said:


> A litle more on Mullard tubes:
> 
> I do not have experience with the Mullard 8161 tube (other designations of this tube are CV4015 and EF92).
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I was looking for those Mullard EF95 tubes on ebay at the moment. Are there any that have that V symbol you are talkin about?


----------



## mordy

The symbol is hard to see on the pictures usually, but if the tube says Mullard and Made in Gt Britain I would think it is the real thing. At the end of each listing bottom left you have a box to click on to ask questions. Just click on the box, go to questions other, and ask the seller.
  In my experience most sellers will answer within a day or so and tell you the facts.


----------



## sonda2008

Thank you.


----------



## Yekrut

Hello,
   
  I purchased my Mullard CV4010 tubes a while back and was wondering if you could confirm these as being from the UK. I can't seem to find the crow's feet logo on my tube, but the seller does give all the details of the symbols on the tube:
  http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-NOS-MULLARD-CV4010-VALVE-EF95-M8100-6AK5-5654-Tubes-/290546585784?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D270629165066%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D342913982881376968#ht_2102wt_907
   
  Cheers,


----------



## mordy

Based on the various posts about Mullard tubes that I have read on the net, I cannot interpret the various letters and designations on these tubes to ascertain where they were made. When I asked the seller directly I received the following answer (I was surprised that the seller could not tell for sure since he claims that they have 200 tubes, and it would stand to reason that they are packaged in bulk cartons with identifying information):
   
  [size=10pt]"Dear Sir:
 In package, no information of where it was made in. This tube is nos stock of Mullard tube. It should made in UK.

 Sincerely, Kevin[/size]
  
 [size=10pt] [size=10pt]- vintage_audio_lab"[/size][/size]
 [size=10pt]  [/size]
 [size=10pt]  [/size]


----------



## CJG888

Does anyone have experience of Western Electric 403Bs (late 60's / early 70's)? Is GBP 10.20 each a fair price?


----------



## Impulsive

great thread.
  Seriously.
  My MK III should be at home within a week.
  However, reading through entire thread would take the eternity.
  Can somebody be so kind and write down some short overview about best tubes for this nice amp?
  I would like to upgrade over stock chinese ones and all i see now is a big confusion because i am totally new to tube stuff.


----------



## Impulsive

I just found matched pair of telefunken CV4010, why are they so expensive? 48 USD
  What is so special about them?
  anyone tried them ?
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mached-pair-NIB-TELEFUNKEN-6AK5-CV4010-5654-TUBES-/250743983422?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a61818d3e
   
  also found matched pair of mullards M8100 for 20 USD
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/MULLARD-CV4010-EF95-M8100-6AK5-5654-NOS-Tube-x2-/290554994114?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a66d5dc2
   
  But these are both power tubes?
  Or mullards are that smaller front tubes?(forgot name)
  Also, can anybody explain me, what is the purpose of power tubes and purpose of front tubes?
   
  I found these
 *MATCHED PAIR TUNG-SOL 6AK5 NOS NIB BLACK BOX PLATES []* http://cgi.ebay.com/MATCHED-PAIR-TUNG-SOL-6AK5-NOS-NIB-BLACK-BOX-PLATES-/170656944046?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27bbf24fae
  I guess they are front tubes and i heard they are pretty good, is that true?


----------



## john57

All the tubes you metion are driver tubes part of the EF95 family. The inputs connects to the driver tubes (front tubes) volumne control and then to the bigger power tubes in the back which drives the headphones or ouputs.
   
  For power tubes look at the PDF that the seller David send you on power tubes rolling.
   
_"The Little Dot MK II uses 6H6pi (6H6n) power tubes by default, and these can be replaced with 6N6, 6N6P,
 6N6P-I, and 6H6n-N power tubes.  If your Little Dot MK III is circuit revision 2.0 or higher, you may also use
 6H30 type power tubes as direct replacements as well.  "_


----------



## Impulsive

Thank you for your reply!
  I searched for all types you mentioned, but seems like they are more cheaper, and no other manufacturers that Russia.
  Can somebody explain it to me?
   
  Also, as i am going through whole thread from very start, i see people rolling only Driver tubes, why is that?
  no change of Power tubes?


----------



## danska

Hey guys,
   
  I've owned the MKIII for a couple of months now, just recently started changing the tubes a bit. I'll start by saying that I just received a set of Electro-harmonix 6H30Pi gold tubes, that I ordered through my local dealer. I was looking for a bit of extra power because I listen over a system where I need a large amount of gain due to the 2.0mV MC cartridge I use on my turntable. These tubes all in all sound better than the stock ones, and I was able to order a local matched set, which was pretty nice! I can also say that using the MKIII as a single sourced pre-amp sounds pretty decent and far improved with the EH tubes. The feel of the line stage in a tube format makes me want to sell my Rega Cursa3, but being in that I bought it new for $1395 and couldn't get squat for it makes me feel otherwise. The MKIII is by no means as good of a line stage but I like the tube feel it brings as a pre-amp.
   
  I've been hunting down some of the favorites on this thread and have accumulated Sylvania JAN 5654's and some CV4010's (not broken in yet). I just received today a matched pair of the Mullard 8161's http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390210592843&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT : This seller was fantastic to deal with, I received the package in Seattle 6 days after it shipped, a total of ten days later (6 business days). I also won a trio of EF92 Mullards the other day also out of the UK. I'm planing on venturing a little more in the EF92 family before the EF95.
   
  I'll give some impressions once I have broken everything in, my only experience so far is preferring the stock tubes to the Sylvania's (Matched) that I bought off eBay. I have a bit of a bright system in general I feel, and the Syl's make things a bit harsh.


----------



## danska

I also wanted to point out I bought a couple tubes from this ebayer:
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270757569960&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
   
  I figured they would be worth a shot for the price, when I asked the seller if he had any matched pairs, he asked me what I meant by that. I just ordered a couple anyways, the two I got are slightly different. One box has the CV4010 stamp, the other dosen't. One tube has the code RL-D SDA, the other RK-D-SDA. Maybe I take a shot and buy a couple more or maybe not?


----------



## john57

I believe that the SDA means Sydney, Australia .  Price is $4 and free shipping? Might be a good deal and you have 3 days exchange policy. I do not think the guy has a tube tester.


----------



## Impulsive

Whoa.
   
  I just finished whole 160 pages.
  Took me about three days.
  I saw people praising Mullards EF 95 / CV4010 & EF91 (EF92)
  Then Tung-Sols mainly.
  People were praising also Tung-Sols 6AK5W but i still do not know what is the difference between Tung-Sol 6AK5 and 6AK5W
  More credit goes to 6AK5W over 6AK5 in this thread.
  Can somebody explain me the difference?
   
  I was deciding which ones to buy.
  I wanted to buy *Tung Sols 6AK5 1940 *
http://cgi.ebay.com/2matched-1940s-Tung-Sol-CTL-6AK5-5654-6J1-tubes-BP-/270732966816?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f08f13ba0#shId
  From start of the thread there were awesome referencies to this tubes, but as i continued through thread, people slowly stopped mentioning them..no idea why.
  If anyone listened to them, i would love to hear some impressions.
   
  Finally i decided to buy pair of *Mullards EF 95 / CV4010 Mil. version*
http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-NOS-MULLARD-CV4010-VALVE-EF95-M8100-6AK5-5654-Tubes-/290546585784?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a5ed10b8
   
  And along with them i discovered some special tubes which wasn't mentioned here.
  They are *Mullards EF91 SPECIAL CV5377*
  Description says they are SPECIALLY SELECTED HIGH QUALITY VERSION EF91  TESTED NEW AND UNUSED
http://cgi.ebay.com/EF91-SPECIAL-CV5377-MULLARD-MATCHED-PAIR-NOS-/260735396781?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item3cb50a6bad
  Weren't so expensive so i purchased one pair.
   
  I am still tempted for that Tung-Sols 1940 6AK5 but i wont be spending 50 USD untill someone who tried them wont post here some impressions.
   
  That's my two bits.
   
  BTW if anyone is interested, there is* 40 Tung-Sol 5654 6AK5W Tubes Big Lot *
  Auction ending in few hours.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280698778006#shId
   
  Regards,
  Imp


----------



## mordy

Hi Impulsive!
   
  You are asking many valid questions. Perhaps some of them were answered after reading through all the posts. Anyhow, I am going to try to address some of the questions:
   
  What is the best tube? There is no one answer to this question. A lot depends on your taste and on your headphones/ancillary equipment. Do you want strong bass? A wide soundstage? A beautiful midrange? If your system sounds shrill and sibilant, you want a tube that tames the highs. If your system sounds dull, then you want a more lively upper end. Nevertheless, some tubes excell overall, and are worth trying. And don't discount the manufacturers recommendations for Little Dot MkIII  (Mullard M8100 and 6H30Pi-DR.).
   
  Best overall: Mullard M8100/CV4010/EF95/CV850. Please note that Australian made CV4010 are Mullard look-alikes and made by Amalgamated. They are not as good as genuine Mullard tubes.
   
  For widest sound stage: Sylvania JAN 6AK5/5654. Other overall good choices are RCA 6AK5/5654 black plate and Western Electric 403/6AK5 tubes.
   
  Matching tubes: Don't bother. Even in regular production lots there were large tolerances of 5-10%, and I doubt that you can hear the differences. Just another way to get you to spend more on unnecessary things.
   
  Why are certain tubes so expensive? Because some people try to drive up the prices. With some patience you should be able to find tubes for $8.00 or less. All the tubes I have cost less than $8.00 each. There are some very rare tubes that go for $100 each or more, but I can't see myself spending this on a $200.00 amp.
   
  Why are most of the discussions about driver tubes? Because 85% of the sound comes from the driver tubes, and only 15% from the power tubes. What makes tube rolling so much fun is that you can change the sound of your equipment very easily and quickly. Just remember to be patient; most tubes are not broken in until you have used them 50-100 hours.
   
  What is the difference between 6AK5 and 6AK5W? Soundwise, nothing. The W indicates a heavy duty military version.
   
  Why do people like Tung-Sol tubes for Little Dot? Because they have punchy bass. BTW, Tung-Sol invented the 6AK5 tube in 1943.
   
  Why do people like Telefunken tubes for Little Dot? From what I have read, they have a smooth, neutral transistor like sound (not tubey and warm).
   
  Why does Little Dot only use Russian made power tubes? Because these amplifiers were designed to use Russian built power tubes. (No Chinese made tubes are used - it seems that Russian and older US/European tubes are better made than new current production Chinese tubes.)  The best power tubes are from the 6H30-DR family, but since they cost over $100.00 each I have not bought them. From what I read, they improve the sound with tighter, better defined bass.
  (Head Fi member Dogmatrix pointed out an inexpensive tube combination using low cost 6N6P power tubes and 6AK5/5654 Raytheon 50's tubes with small mica discs {so that the entire getter assembly is supported by the bottom pins; the discs do not touch the inside of the glass}. This combination is as good as Mullard EF95 family tubes with 6N6Pi power tubes, but slightly less warm but with more detailed bass. If you have shrill and sibilant driver tubes, substituting the OEM 6N6Pi tubes for 6N6P tubes may "tame" these driver tubes to sound better.)
   
  Hope this helps.
   
   
   
   
   
   
  .


----------



## Impulsive

Hello Mordy!
  Your post is great.
  You basically shrinked whole thread into this post.
  And i got all answers i need thanks to you.
  So regarding 6AK5 and 6AK5W - thanks for explanation.
  I might go for these Tung Sols just because of bass (I am a bit basshead but i wont admit it to myself )
  Regarding Mullards, i am satisfied with your reply that they are "overall better" that's what i was looking for.
  As i have DT 880 / 600 Ohm, my system is not sibilant, highs are just OK, i do not need to tame highs.
  Soundstage is pretty awesome now, and it will even increase with the amp so i choose better overal sound 
   
  Thanks for explaining me driver tubes vs. power tubes dilemma, it is now clear to me 
  Now i am glad which ones i choosed, and cant wait to try and compare them.
  And i think i got pretty good prices on both of them.
   
  Also thanks for Telefunken vs Tung-Sol explanation, very informative.
 Power tubes aren't that expensive, and i may buy one new pair of 6N6P-IR as my amp is from one fellow headfier and he purchased it in 2007 so it might not support 6H30 versions. (Depends, if circuit is v2.0 or not.)
   
  Your response should be marked as sticky or make it somehow important, it contains huuuge amount of information, that are very very useful for every MK III owner.
   
  Thanks
  Imp


----------



## danska

Imp,
   
  To re-comment on the power tube part of things, I got a matched set of the EH 6H30Pi (gold pins) for just under $80 USD after tax etc.. I'm extremely happy with the purchase as these seem to really beef up the MKIII. The sound in general has better dynamics and better bass (without distorting or changing it). With the combo of them and the 8161 Mullards (EF92), music has never sounded better coming through my Sennheiser 650's. The 8161s are not broken in yet, and the only two pairs that I had broken in (both EF95) are not giving me the staging and presentation. In fact I personally found the JAN Sylvania's to have the most crowded soundstage (even compared to stock). I'm by no means an expert, and am very new to tubes and headphones alike, but I'm like you in the sense I'm trying to find out more and get peoples recently updated experiences. Both sets of tubes are quite a bit taller than the originals. Here is a couple of pics I took last night.


----------



## Impulsive

very nice danska!
   
  I just dont know if i can use 6H30Pi because my amp still didnt arrived and it is from 2007 so dont know if it has v1.0 or v2.0 circuit.
  Thanks for your impressions 
  Maybe i will end up with your confing, who knows? 
  Now i have two sets on the way, i will try them and post here


----------



## mordy

Hi Danska,
   
  I was surprised to hear that your Sylvania tubes had a crowded soundstage. Just to make sure, are they the Sylvania JAN 5654 tubes with Black Plate and Halo getter with stock numbers 5960/DSA900?
  I am sure that Sylvania made many different tubes over the years. The ones referenced here are military issue and identical to their Gold Series but not with the gold plated pins, and thus much cheaper on the marketplace.
  Other Sylvania tubes I have do not sound as good.


----------



## hrbballman

I run mine with the Amperex. They are hard to find but you should consider them....not that i've heard the mullards....just  throwing in one more option for you to have to decide on.


----------



## mordy

Amperex tubes have an excellent reputation. If they are made in Gt. Britain, I believe that they were made by Mullard.
  I have two such tubes, and they look the same as the Mullards.


----------



## PanamaRed

Just ordered a MK III. Looking very forward to rolling with this amp. Now to start from page 1 and see what tubes i'm going to buy


----------



## Impulsive

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Just ordered a MK III. Looking very forward to rolling with this amp. Now to start from page 1 and see what tubes i'm going to buy


 


  You don't have to.
  Just check one page back.
  mordy posted there basically summary of whole thread.


----------



## PanamaRed

Ohh very nice. Thanks mordy and Impulsive.
  
  Quote: 





impulsive said:


> You don't have to.
> Just check one page back.
> mordy posted there basically summary of whole thread.


----------



## Impulsive

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Ohh very nice. Thanks mordy and Impulsive.


 


  All credit goes to mordy


----------



## danska

Quote: 





mordy said:


> Hi Danska,
> 
> I was surprised to hear that your Sylvania tubes had a crowded soundstage. Just to make sure, are they the Sylvania JAN 5654 tubes with Black Plate and Halo getter with stock numbers 5960/DSA900?
> I am sure that Sylvania made many different tubes over the years. The ones referenced here are military issue and identical to their Gold Series but not with the gold plated pins, and thus much cheaper on the marketplace.
> Other Sylvania tubes I have do not sound as good.


 

 Mordy,
   
  The box reads JAN 5654... DSA 900-67-C-9983. I purchased them here:
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290566098019&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
   
   
  The one thing I would say is that mine both have a blue going on from the start. Not sure if that is an issue in this particular case, as I thought that generally indicated a leak? Like I said I'm a noob with tubes and their tech, but I've been a dedicated audiophile for about six years and have owned some speakers that can throw an impressive stage. I'm noticing a bit more height to musicians with the current set-up I'm using. Once I fully know these are broken in and I can break in the other EF92's I'm getting, I'll switch back over and report again.
   
  I just visited Zu Audio yesterday. It was fantastic and the guys there were great, I picked up a couple of sets of B-stock Mission RCA's, and I couldn't leave without getting a Zu Mobius out of them!!! So know I have a new cable to break in as well. Apparently the mobius can still be had (which I did not know) but they sell a lot to places like Japan. So I'm groving to a new Senn cable which I thought I wouldn't be doing any time soon! I'll show you guys some pics of that. The machined connectors are pretty awesome!


----------



## mordy

Hi Danska!
   
   
  Looks like the Sylvania tubes you have are the same type that I have. Since you have been an audiophile for a number of years we have to trust your ears, so the conclusion is that tubes will react differently to different equipment and sound differently.
  Personally, I have no idea why some tubes produce a wider sound stage than others, and why some tubes have better sound than others. It is all trial and error, which makes it fun to try out different tubes and combinations of tubes. Nevertheless, I still think that it is possible to reach some kind of consensus on which tubes are among the best ones.
  I have a set of two driver tubes that are great, but one is a re-branded tube, and all the markings are completely worn off on the other tube, so I don't even know what they are!  I can guess who the manufacturers are by comparing the look to other known tubes, but it is still only a guess.
  BTW, there is nothing wrong in putting in two different driver tubes, as long as the tubes are from the same family. You could A/B the tubes if you have a balance control in the system of L and R. Ideally you would try this with a good mono recording where you can switch each side to get the sound coming from both channels when you are listening.
  Cables is a different can of worms, and I just stick to what I have, which are plain and inexpensive cables. Years ago I bought a power management outlet strip with various filters for the electrical noise, and it clearly improved the sound. The sound also can be improved with a dedicated line to your equipment, and by listening late at night, when there is less electrical interference from all kinds of motors and gadgets.


----------



## britt2001b

Well now that I'm back from taking the kids to Disney World, I hate to say, I have picked up my addiction (tube rolling) where I left off. This has got to end, but it sure is enjoyable! 
   
  I purchased the Mullard CV4015's (M8161) and they _really_ kicked in at about 25 hrs. They are performing exactly as David (from Little Dot) described on his forums "_very detailed while maintaining warmth_." These do provide the best "tube sound" from all that I have sampled. And as David said they are _very_ warm. I experience no ear fatigue after long listening sessions at a higher volume than usual. I find that the center signal (usually the vocals) are really pushed forward with a nice, airy quality. As a matter of fact, I think some would describe this as a "breath of life" type of sound. They don't have quite the sound stage and "crystal, clear highs" as the Sylvania JAN 5654's but they are quite satisfying to listen to. 
   
  I'm finding that I could be happy with alternating between the Sylvania's and the 8161 Mullards, but what a hassle it is to change the jumpers. My needle-nose pliers were too large to fit within the openings so I had to use tweezers. I'm sure after changing the jumpers multiple times, odds are, that I will drop a jumper within the unit at some time.
   
  So, for now, I think I will enjoy the nice, classic sound of the Mullards. _Unless_, should I ... (no, no, no, someone stop me!) ...try the Mullard M8161 "large shields" as I see from previous posts that these are a step above the "small shields."


----------



## mordy

Hi Brit 2001b,
   
  I just ordered a pair of the 8161s (EF92). Could you explain to me the difference between small shield and large shield?
   
  It is true that tube rolling can make you a little crazy. The best situation is when you find tubes that make you forget about analyzing the highs and the lows and the mid range, and you just enjoy the music. But maybe a different highly recommended set of tubes will make you enjoy the music more.....


----------



## KMASCII

Quote: 





cjg888 said:


> Does anyone have experience of Western Electric 403Bs (late 60's / early 70's)? Is GBP 10.20 each a fair price?


 


  For the type of sound that I was looking for the WE 403B's have turned out to be my favorite purchase so far. I've used TungSol and GE 5654 & 5654W's, including the 5 stars, Mullard M8161, Sylvania & WE 6AK5 & 6AK5W. The 403B's I bought are from the early eighties though. The type of sound I like is a bit less punchy than what others might like. For my tastes, I've found that other tubes were a bit treble heavy to me. I listen mainly with HD650's. The 403B's are certainly less punchy but not at all muddy or less defined. I find they lose nothing in their detail. In fact, I find that because the treble is less pronounced (more controlled) this helps with imaging. So I like their balance.
   
  I probably paid $30-$35 for the unmatched pair, w/o shipping. But, that's my particular threshold for buying tubes... $40ish for a pair. So the 10.20 GBP seems fair to me for an older tube. The one concern I've read in other forums is one about the 403B's reliability. One post I read said it can be prone to failure. But I guess time will tell. However the lower output of the 403B's is suppose to mean they last longer than their sibling 403A's, which have a higher power requirement. I haven't heard the 403A's. But, also from reading the posts, others worry that the increased power requirements could introduce distortion being that these tubes are on the driver (input) side. Never heard the 403A's to compare the two though.
   
  Edit: Just another thought. I don't know if there are differences in plate structures and years of production with the 403B's. I'll check mine when I get a chance... away from home right now. Also, compared to the EF91's I've tried, with the 403B's there's a bit more definition in the bass and midrange.
   
  Edit: The 403B's I have are from the early 70's actually, not the 80's as I mentioned, sorry. I just noticed that there are differences in the getter shape, round and square. This likely has no bearing on the sound though. But the plates and mica appear to be the same structurally.


----------



## mordy

Just goes to show that YMMV (your mileage may vary). If you think that some tubes produce too much treble, try to change the power tubes to 6N6P. These are cheap, (way below your buying threshold), and could tame the sibilance.
  I have WE403 tubes from the early 50's and late 50's, and while they have a very detailed presentation, the Mullards suit me better with more warmth and bass.


----------



## Impulsive

Mine LD MK III back from 2007 came with stock GE5654 and 6N6P-I and it's pretty much good combo.
  Just wait that new tubes arrive and i can start comparing and rolling.


----------



## KMASCII

I've never heard any sibilance from the Little Dot MKIII. I do listen with the HD650's, which are pretty tough to hear sibilance with anyway. lol. I simply heard excessive balance towards the treble area, brightness if you will. But no sibilance. Right now I use Russian 6H6n for the power tubes. They're good and do quite nicely.
   
  You know, I also have a pair of Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi-EH. The Electro Harmonix power tubes do bring a lot of weight and force to the music. And they do run hot... damn hot actually. But nice sound for a power tube though. I must say there's plenty of space between the pedal and the floor with these power tubes. I've been meaning to try these paired with the 403B's.


----------



## Impulsive

then i am just wondering why are you running 6H6n if you have better tubes waiting to be plugged in?
  Glad to hear that 6H30P-I are doing better, it only confirmed my thoughts.
  I will definitely try them...but damn they are expensive.


----------



## britt2001b

Quote: 





mordy said:


> Hi Brit 2001b,
> 
> I just ordered a pair of the 8161s (EF92). Could you explain to me the difference between small shield and large shield?
> 
> It is true that tube rolling can make you a little crazy. The best situation is when you find tubes that make you forget about analyzing the highs and the lows and the mid range, and you just enjoy the music. But maybe a different highly recommended set of tubes will make you enjoy the music more.....


 


  Hello Mordy,
   
  I'm sorry, I do not know the difference. I'm only referencing from earlier posts from this thread. It seem's the large shields are more sought after. I only discovered this after I ordered the 8161's. Here's a quote from post #1112 :
   
_"Mullard has a somewhat convoluted history having had not a few owners over the years and it's not surprising that tubes from different eras manufactured at different plants would sound significantly different. In the case of the M8161 I think the classic large-shield version sounds like a proper Mullard with its warm and almost seductive sound while the other versions tend to sound colder and harsher.

  - DoA"_
   
  Of course, the grass is always greener. But for now, I think I will take your advice, relax a bit, enjoy the music, and when curiosity gets the best of me I'll give the large shields a try.


----------



## TMRaven

Got my Mullard CV4010s (ef95, m8100) driver tubes today.  Currently burning them in a bit.  So far I don't notice any difference between them and the stock chinese tubes that came with my MK2.


----------



## britt2001b

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> Got my Mullard CV4010s (ef95, m8100) driver tubes today.  Currently burning them in a bit.  So far I don't notice any difference between them and the stock chinese tubes that came with my MK2.


 


  Give 'em about 50 hours or so.


----------



## KMASCII

Quote: 





impulsive said:


> then i am just wondering why are you running 6H6n if you have better tubes waiting to be plugged in?
> Glad to hear that 6H30P-I are doing better, it only confirmed my thoughts.
> I will definitely try them...but damn they are expensive.


 


 The heat they produce made me nervous is all. And they lay forgotten in a drawer. Plus the 6H6n are a certainly a good tube. Seeing as you have 600ohm Beyers the Electro Harmonix would probably be worth price. I don't recall paying a lot for them bout three years ago though. They're a very tall tube compared to the 6H6n's, plus they've got a lot of glow compared to the 6H6n's too. Hence the heat I guess. Listening to them now, and I forgot how strong they are. Like I remembered, more force to the music. Maybe effortless is a good description.


----------



## Impulsive

thanks for sumarizing it 
  I might really try EH but i have been thinking about russian 6H30P-I
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/MATCHED-PAIR-6N30P-DR-6H30-Pi-SUPER-TUBES-UNUSED-TESTED-/160595423705?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item25643bb1d9
   
   
  What do you think?
  Is there any difference comparing them to EH ?
  Regarding heat, well, when i turned my amp for the first time and i just put my hand above tubes after about hour, wow what a heat was spreading.
  But I do not care at all for this heat, i never let amp turned on when i leave the house and while i am here, i take care.
  But i am tempted by the sound signature they provide, as you said.
   
  BTW
   
  Is there really big difference between 6H30P-I produced before 1990 and after 1990?
  because that's what seller says.
   
  Because these 6H30P DR costs more than my amp, jesus christ.
  check it out
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-MATCHED-6N30P-DR-6N30P-NIB-80s-TUBE-E182CC-6H30P-/300567932583?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item45fb3eaea7


----------



## KMASCII

I was thinking about why I neglected the 6H30Pi-EH, and in addition to the heat concern it was because I had *thought* that I didn't like their sound... but I was very wrong there. A power tube can only deliver the signal that the driver tube passes to them. And at the time I was struggling to balance the treble to my preference by rolling driver tubes. Now that I'm listening to the 6H30Pi-EH with my new favourite driver tubes, the 6H30Pi sound much, much more appealing. Understanding this, it dawns on me now that another word I would use to describe the 6H30Pi-EH is transparent. I can see that they are a very capable and responsive power tube. I suspect it's because the tube produces enough power that you can't hear a weakness in the presentation.
   
  In terms of the tubes you've referred to I don't know. I don't know what the DR designation means as opposed to the HR's that I have. Maybe there is some power difference? All I know is that my expectation now for what a good power tube is should include that it sound transparent. I'll try to post a photo of my tubes so that you might see if there are differences in construction. It might be a thought to track down a spec sheet on these tubes to see any other differences too.


----------



## Impulsive

DR addition means that it has improved prolonged lifetime.
  but that makes that insane price?
  I dont think so...
   
  Waiting for your photos 
   
  Also, nice explanation and conclusion 
  So you returned to 6H30P-I after all. It makes sense


----------



## KMASCII

Now that I understand better how a good power tube improves the presentation, yeah I'm sticking with the 6H30Pi's. Those are some crazy prices on eBay though. Although still a fair chunk of change at $33.95 usd per tube, they are cheaper *here*. But I'm sure that there are still slightly cheaper places to get them out there. I can't recall where I'd gotten mine but it wasn't eBay. Don't know if *this* place is still operating but $21.89 per tube is a heck of a lot cheaper. A lot of variation in pricing out there.


----------



## Impulsive

thanks for cheaper sources for tubes.
  i still wait for david zhezhe to reply to my email, because my amp is back from 2007 and i think i read somewhere here, that only PCB rev. 2.0 supports 6H30 family.
  I am not sure about my PCB rev. and while i tried to dismantle it yesterday, i couldnt pull out PCB, i didnt want to break something so i let it be.
  Anyone have idea how to figure out PCB rev. without disassembling amp and pulling PCB out?


----------



## john57

how to figure out PCB rev. 
   
http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1044&p=4061&hilit=6H30+resistor+change&sid=141c9c732997b0d90183064052ae359f#p4061


----------



## jdog826

Hello fellow mkIII owners
  i got one of these units about a month ago. i'm currently using dt990/600 along with an ipod 5g. so far i'm liking the sound but would like to try out some different tubes. can someone suggest some tubes that will bring out the vocal a little more. vocals to me sound kind of thin or hallow. how about some tubes that will add more punch to the bass? i think i might be a basshead LOL. being new to the world of headphone amps i don't really know what the difference is between the small tubes and the larger ones. would i be able to change all four tubes to create a sound that has punchier bass and add some body to the vocals? any suggestions welcome. thanks in advance.


----------



## Impulsive

thanks.
  First time i was unsuccessful, but now equiped with flashlight i was successful.
  But sad news, it's rev. 1.0
  so i am kinda ..scr.....ed.
  I do not feel like doing that resistor mod, i am not that skilled.


----------



## AlexRoma

*jdog826*, I had these headphones previously.  Now I own DT880 600ohm..
   
  I also have 3 pairs of russian groove 6J1P-EV's, 2 pairs of Mullard M8100 CV4010 and the stock GE's (all these are small tubes).
   
_Russian 6J1P-EV _tubes burst bass (3-4 db) and treble (1~2 db) too (no more treble burst after 100 hours ), not welcome add-in at all, especially for beyerdynamic house. Russian tubes made my MKIII almost undistinguished with AudioGD NFB11 dac-amp... 
   
*edited* : After 3 weeks ( now these tubes have 100+ burn-in) , russians sound much better, much warmer then before. Looks like Highs have rolled off around 3db.. Now there is difference compared to pure SS amps.  I am sorry for the previous post. I was confident, 50 hours were enough for burn in and the'll be no more change in the sound. I was wrong...
   
_M8100 Mullard's_ cost only 20$, sound much better than GE's and also bring you extra 1~2 db midrange. These are quite neutral and lush. I find stock GE the most midrange oriented tubes of the group, but they are less transparent and extended on both sides, because of lower quality materials I suppose. They even look cheaper and smaller in the size.
   
  And buy the way, don't expect LittleDot MKIII making beyerdynamics warm and lush headphones. Not the case with MKIII. It's a neutral sounding tube-amp.


----------



## AlexRoma




----------



## TMRaven

What kind of power tubes would you suspect to pump more bass into a signature?  I already got the CV4010s for my MK2, and they havn't fully burned in yet, but I suspect I'll still want some extra presence out of the really low frequencies (20-40hz)


----------



## Impulsive

Tung-Sol 6AK5 / 6AK5-W are known for their punchy bassy sound.
  I did not tried them yet but they are on my list.


----------



## TMRaven

Are those power tubes?


----------



## mordy

The power tubes for the MkIII are all Russian to the best of my knowledge. (Those are the big ones in the back.)
  I am not aware of any US or British power tubes for the MkIII. There seems to be a consensus that the type 6H30Pi - DR tubes are the best. These are Russian military tubes made for demanding applications that require very strict quality control and very small tolerances. These tubes should be good for 10,000 hours.
  There is a rumor that the Russians came to the conclusion that in the event of a nuclear war tubes would fare better than transistors; thus the research and development of "super tubes." (Don't know if this is true - maybe somebody can verify or debunk this?)


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

A quality alternative to the 6H30Pi -DR (which are incredibly expensive IMO) is the Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold Pin. I've used them in my MkIII with good results, certainly much better sounding than the stock 6H6P.
   
  - DoA


----------



## PanamaRed

The seller calls these 6N30P-DR / 6H30 Pi. Is this what I keep on reading about as being the best power tube for this amp?

 http://cgi.ebay.com/MATCHED-PAIR-6N30P-DR-6H30-Pi-SUPER-TUBES-UNUSED-TESTED-/160611767300?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2565351404
  Quote: 





dept_of_alchemy said:


> A quality alternative to the 6H30Pi -DR (which are incredibly expensive IMO) is the Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold Pin. I've used them in my MkIII with good results, certainly much better sounding than the stock 6H6P.
> 
> - DoA


----------



## Impulsive

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> Are those power tubes?


 


  no i am talking about driver tubes, as 85% of the sound produced belongs to driver, and about 15% to the power tubes.
  Easy and simple, power tubes just transparently amplify, what driver tubes give them.


----------



## KMASCII

Quote: 





impulsive said:


> thanks.
> First time i was unsuccessful, but now equiped with flashlight i was successful.
> But sad news, it's rev. 1.0
> so i am kinda ..scr.....ed.
> I do not feel like doing that resistor mod, i am not that skilled.


 

 Sorry to hear you've got the v1.0 board. Just FYI then here is a photo of Russian 6H6n and the 6H30Pi-EH.
   

  
  The 6H30Pi looks to have a triple mica construction and the 6H6n just double.


----------



## Impulsive

thanks for that photo comparison.
  I really wondered what's the dimensions of EH 6H30Pi and see visual comparison.


----------



## AlexRoma

This is the general MKIII power tube ranking :
   
  6N6*Pi* -> 6N6*P* ->> 6N*30P* [Sovtek] -> 6N*30Pi* [Electro-Harmonix ] -> 6N*30P-EV *[Sovtek] ->> 6N30*P-DR* [Reflektor] 
   
*Letters at the end means:*
   
*i* - impulse circuit

*E* - long life
*V* - high reliability

*D* - extra long life
*R* - extra high reliability
   
*Ru / En*
   H   =  N
  П,n  = P
   
  Buy the way... Are there better midrange-oriented, lush sounding tubes then Mullard M8100 (CV4010) ?
  In no way brighter on highs, same extended and undistorted but sweeter, lusher, warmer ...  (for my DT880's)


----------



## Impulsive

nice explanation. but what means impulse circuit?
  And you ranked it as worse as standard one.


----------



## AlexRoma

Lets just stay simple... HiFi Audio in most case use linear, constant current circuits..  Other hardware may be constructed on Impulse current circuit base, not HiFi at least.   
  Most HiFi constructors (like Lampizator for instance), recommend us classical, 6N6P tubes, instead of 6N6P*i . *
  But 6N30Pi from Electro-Harmonix are another story.. These one have golden pins and premium hifi oriented build.. 
   
  By the way, guys interested in Power Tubes upgrade, check this one while you still can...
  As for me, I think I'll get these one 6N30Pi-EV [Electro-Harmonix], if only they ship to East Europe .


----------



## Impulsive

thanks for explanation.
  price on that russian DR tubes is great.
  I just installed new Mullards EF 91 / CV5377  nad currently listening to them.
  Lets see if i am deaf because i do not hear difference between stock GE5654 yet.


----------



## Frank I

IMO the Sovtexk 6H30 works best in little dot amps. I would buy them from a reputable dealer also


----------



## AlexRoma

Quote:


frank i said:


> IMO the Sovtexk 6H30 works best in little dot amps. I would buy them from a reputable dealer also


   
  Me to, if the was a way getting these below 50$ for a pair... 
   
*Impulsive*, if you seriosly do not hear a clear difference from switching from 5$ GE's to 50$ Mullards, I do seriously advice you not bothering with Power Tubes at all... Not worth the effort, especially if the tubes cost over 50$.. A smart guy noticed previously, "there is no much sense buying <100$ tubes for an 200$ amp, if only there's a love till the grave in between".


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





alexroma said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> frank i said:
> ...


 

 Try Jim Mcshane at JMcShane at prodigy.net His website is on audio asylum front home page


----------



## Impulsive

Quote: 





alexroma said:


> *Impulsive*, if you seriosly do not hear a clear difference from switching from 5$ GE's to 50$ Mullards, I do seriously advice you not bothering with Power Tubes at all... Not worth the effort, especially if the tubes cost over 50$.. A smart guy noticed previously, "there is no much sense buying <100$ tubes for an 200$ amp, if only there's a love till the grave in between".


 

 those Mullards wasn't really expensive
http://cgi.ebay.com/EF91-SPECIAL-CV5377-MULLARD-MATCHED-PAIR-NOS-/260735396781?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item3cb50a6bad
  But after 2 hour of listening, i can say these mullards have the most beautiful vocals i ever heard.
  Especially Bono's voice in some songs was outstanding, total difference. And a bit bigger soundstage i think. Also a bit sibilance, but only tiny bit, but i guess that's gonna change with time.
  To be exact about vocals, lower frequencies of vocals are the most noticeable change.
  Let me investigate more, what changed.


----------



## AlexRoma

Thanks *Impulsive *for your initial impressions. I am not in hurry.
   
  I do already own EF95 M8100's, so, I could wait another mouth at least for your final impression.. I would appreciate a lot if you (or anyone else) could have made a proper A-B comparison on all available Mullard tubes (EF95, EF92 and EF91). After I had bought another headphone in my house (DT880s), I'm totally broke, so, it's not the case I could afford a tube collection just for having fun... I need warm, lush tubs, well extended, dark and warm.
   
  Nice price on that tube.. Last time I was looking for tube upgrade, all the offerings I could find of Mullard EF91 and EF92 were above 40$ price tag.


----------



## Impulsive

I do not have Mullards M8100 EF95 at home yet.
   
  bought from here, they are still on the way.
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-NOS-MULLARD-CV4010-VALVE-EF95-M8100-6AK5-5654-Tubes-/290546585784?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a5ed10b8
   
  I sure will do the comparison, if i will be able to hear the difference because i already noticed i cant hear almost any differences, where another people hear really mad differences.
  Probably not so sensitive hearing i have, maybe working with loud home equip like chainsaw, brush cutter, electric saw etc, etc affected this.


----------



## mordy

Hello Britt2001b,
   
  I think I figured out the difference between "large shield" and "small shield" Mullard tubes. IMHO it refers to some kind of trademark shield on the  print on the tube. One shield is bigger than the other as seen in these ads, which may indicate different production runs or factories.
   
  Here are some pictures of large shield and small shield:
  http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Mullard-M8083-Large-Shield-Matched-Little-Dot-Amp-/290582173395?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a80c16d3
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Mullard-M8083-Small-Shield-Matched-Little-Dot-Amp-/290582173145?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a80c15d9
   
  These items are from a new(?) seller on E-Bay with 0 feedback and high prices. Almost all items for sale are geared for Little Dot MkIII. But it is fun to go window shopping....


----------



## mordy

Dear Brit 2001b,
   
  Just received a pair of Mullard EF92 tubes which should be the equivalent of CV4015 and M8161. So far these are the most expensive tubes I bought at $7.60 each including shipping. Found them on E-Bay from a British source. As far as I can tell these are the real thing with large shields and manufactured in the Mitcham factory, probably 1964 or 1974.
  Changed the tiny jumpers with a small needle nose pliers breaking out in a cold sweat that I should not drop the tiny jumpers inside. However, it went well. The sound so far is different then the EF95/CV850 Mullards, maybe darker. In any event I going to give them at least 50 hours of break in before I form a real opinion.
  So far they don't seem to run so hot; we'll see. In the past I tried a pair of Mullard Blue Glass EF91 that made the amp burning hot. That sound was impressive at first but ultimately too harsh and grating and I sold the tubes.
   
  Cheers,


----------



## britt2001b

Hi Mordy,
   
  I apparently purchased the "small shield" version of this tube but I have no complaints so far after about 40 hours of break in. Here is a link to my purchase:
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/CV4015-M8161-EF92-9D6-MULLARD-QDD-TUBE-VALVE-NOS-E-PAIR-/390210592843?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item5ada5d204b
   
  The date code states "81-23". Does this indicate they were manufactured in 1981?
   
  The sound greatly improved around 25 hrs and pretty much of remained the same since. Keep us posted with the "large shields". 
   
  I've been watching the available tubes on ebay for several weeks now. It's funny that I have never seen the term "large shield" and "small shield" in the descriptions until now. Do you think the sellers are reading the forums? Not that there is anything wrong with it. It's interesting how comments can shape the marketing strategies if it is true.


----------



## mordy

Hi Britt2001b,
   
  The date code 81-23 would normally mean the 23rd week 1981, but apparently there were many anomalies in date codes to keep people in the dark as to when the tubes were manufactured. One post mentioned a reason for this: At one point in time new, fresh tubes were considered better than old tubes, and by confusing the dating people would by old tubes as well.
  Today, I get the impression from sellers on E-Bay that old tubes are better. There is no doubt in my mind that once tubes became less used and thus less popular in the 80's the quality and quality control went down. It seems to be the case as well with Russian tubes made after the fall of Communism in the early 90's. There was no need for strict quality control for military and space applications. However, the proof is in the pudding. If a 1975 tube sounds better than a 1945 tube, than the 1975 tube is better.
  There is also no doubt that some sellers follow the threads on Head-Fi and price their offerings accordingly. However, with patience you can still pick up bargains.
  Re the EF92s I will try to report later. After running six hours they seem to run hotter than the E95s, and they sound different than the E95 tubes, but it is too early to say anything definitive.
   
  Cheers,


----------



## -su

I got a great offer on NOS matched pair Mullard CV850, is it really worth to buy and an upgrade from the stock?
  What is the difference between this tube and CV4010 or M8100?
   
  TIA


----------



## mordy

For most people, upgrading to Mullard tubes over the stock GE tubes will be a big improvement. The GEs are not bad with a nice mid range, but the Mullard tubes will get you more bottom and top end and a sweet, warm mid range.
   
  Don't know what the offer is, but EF95/CV850 is equivalent to CV4010/M8100. If you have the CV4010/M8100 I don't know know what the advantage of the EF95/CV850 is. The CV850 is more rare I think. They were made in at least two different Mullard factories; the two variants I have sound the same. Would not worry about matching tubes - I think it is just a marketing gimmick to make you pay more.
   
  If you want to pay $45/tube (including shipping) you could buy here:
  http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-CV850-6AK5W-5654-EF95-MULLARD-Tube-Rohre-Valvola-NOS-/260739792150?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cb54d7d16
   
  If you have more patience, you can check E-Bay and wait for the same type tubes for less than $10/pair (incl shipping) which is what I paid a couple of months ago from the East Bloc. (OK - I got 9 Mullard and one Tung Sol tube, and no original boxes. Sold as used as well)
   
   

 
 
 
 Ten EF95 CV850 M8100 Mullard valves 6AK5 tubes 1 $24.50 USD $24.50 USD
 
 
  Shipping & Handling
 (includes any seller handling fees): $10.00 USD Shipping Insurance : --




 Total: $34.50 USD


----------



## Impulsive

this is where i bought matched pair of Mullards EF95 for 20 USD
  Still on the way.
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-NOS-MULLARD-CV4010-VALVE-EF95-M8100-6AK5-5654-Tubes-/290546585784?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a5ed10b8


----------



## -su

Hi mordy, thanks for your reply... 

 I have just closed the deal, it's a local seller here (South East Asia) so I don't have to worry about shipping and custom.
  Anyway, according to your info, I think this might be a good deal also, I got them for $25/pair inc shipping.
   
   
  edited:
  Being idle for whole day ( what a lame weekend!  ),
  I've search around the web for some local sellers.
  Well, ended up finding a seller with NOS telefunken 6ak5 on stock (http://public.fotki.com/andysund/preamp-tube/telefunken-6ak5.html).
  What do you guys think about this tube?
  Anyone here ever use this tube on LD MKIII? Impression or verdict please


----------



## mordy

Hi -SU,
   
  I would say that the price you got is pretty good if the tubes are new and in original boxes.
   
  Regarding the Telefunken tubes I have not heard them. Based on reading posts they are said to be very neutral and solid state like in the sound (perfect to the point of boring). Another post mentioned a different tube made by Telefunken that could last much longer than other makes.
   
  What is the price of the Telefunken tubes with shipping to the US from your local seller?
   
  As with all set-ups, the sound you get may be different than somebody else with different equipment. To me, this is what makes tube rolling so much fun - you never know how it will turn out until you try.


----------



## -su

mordy,
   
  yes i agree with you about how fun and mysterious tube rolling is 
  Since I build a cmoy back in 2009, opamp rolling (and now also tube rolling) has become so exciting...
   
  The CV850 I mentioned before is listed as brand new old stock but without original box.
   
  Anyway,
  I already got a reply from the telefunken seller, not quite good, since he would like to sell the telefunken at around $75/pair and Mullard CV4010 at $70/ pair, both exclude shipping fee.
  But if you are interested, you can sent query to andy_sund@yahoo.co.uk.
  Just FYI, this seller has not listed as a reputable/recommended/verified seller here (Indonesia).


----------



## Impulsive

-su, is that these mullards you are talking about?
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-NOS-MULLARD-CV4010-VALVE-EF95-M8100-6AK5-5654-Tubes-/290546585784?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a5ed10b8
   
  If so, they are frickin expensive at your seller.
   
  BRW i am the only one deaf who cant hear that many differences as you do hear?
  I hardly found only one, little difference between GE5654 and Mullard EF91.
  Where the flock is the problem?


----------



## -su

yeah it's the same Mullard CV4010,
  knowing that he sells it above $40 already turned me down anyway.
   
  I haven't done the tube rolling on my LD MKIII,
  the CV850s have not arrived yet  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  hopefully tomorrow I can update some words about it here.
   
  But...
  I've done tube rollings on my Bravo (12au7 base) and my maverick D1 (5670 based),
  With my rookie ears, I can hear some differences from different tubes (3pcs of 12au7 tubes and 3pcs of 5670 tubes), mostly involves better high extension, lushier mids, better low bottom reproduction, overall warmness, better soundstage, different representation of vocal, etc. 
   
  Well IMO the easiest components to hear and confirm are the main frequencies (low, mid and high - if the improvement is significant)...
  the harder others are soundstage, forwardness (vs laidback), thickness, imaging and some other components which will need extra critical listening.
   
  What I'm trying to say is IF the tube rolling's improvement involves above listed harder components, well it will definitely be harder to realize the differences...
  and I'm also the guy who believes that inputs (files bitrate, recordings quality DACs quality, interconnects, etc) and outputs (headphones, earphones, speakers, etc) related to the amp are also counted as factors.
  I can see your output (DT880/600) is well-known as analytical and accurate monitoring headphone,
  so I suggest you to make sure you have good inputs to feed to your amp...
  just a noob's $0.02 tho 
   
  NB: sorry for my bad english...


----------



## Impulsive

Hello there -su
  Nice and easy you said it.
  My chain should be OK, you see whole chain in my sig, and source is FLAC music so no problem here.
  I do hear some differences, but only so small that i consider now GE5654 and Mullard EF91 almost equivalents.
  Well, better vocals on EF91.
  Next week should arrive those mullards which we  were talking about, so i will try them and review it here.
  Then on my list are Tung-Sol 6AK5 1940 series and i am done.
  I will see if it will be wasted money, but at least i will have backup tubes.


----------



## mordy

Hello Impulsive,
   
  Don't worry about if you can hear differences or not - the main thing is to enjoy the music! IMHO some people just listen to their equipment, forever changing this or that to see what kind of change the new stuff made.
  I think the best scenario is that you enjoy the music so much that you forget to analyze the highs and the lows, and the mids, and you just enjoy the music. (On the other hand, if you enjoy your equipment more than the music, so be it; it's OK, too. Whatever floats your boat...)


----------



## Impulsive

Hello there mate.
  I do not want you to get me wrong.
  I am enjoying music with new equipment, it's really big change, but i get poisoned with tube rolling...everybody is talking like, oh i just tried XYZ tubes and music is fricking awesome. totally different.
  I wanted to try that too, to see if it changes music that much, but i did not noticed that big changes.
  I am not disappointed from music from new tubes, they really brought out vocals and after having piano session i noticed high tones of piano do not hurt my ears anymore.
  So in the end, yeah, changes are here but i think that "big" or "small" changes are relative announcements, because if you are looking for certain change and it is fulfilled, then it might be big change for you. But if not, then you wont consider it big change.
  Right now, listening to piano i can say i did not have any expectations but it changed music in positive way.
  Since i bought DT880, music is more relaxing for me, it sucks me in like i am there, totally forgetting about outside world. I have not experienced it before.
  I am not type who analyze music while listening, because i do not know how to analyze it, i am not musician type. And music  is too dynamic to analyze for me.
  I just say to myself, wow what a nice sounding chello, but in a second, it is gone, music is like river, it flows dynamically, and in every moment it is completely different.
  That's why we should not analyze it, but enjoy it as it is flowing.
  That's my opinion.
   
  Regards,
  Imp


----------



## mordy

Hi Imp,
   
  Thank you for a very beautiful and inspiring description of music enjoyment! I really agree with you 100%!


----------



## Impulsive

Hi there mate.
  That's how I feel it.
   
  I am glad you agree with me


----------



## Impulsive

Ok so another good news 
  Today i finally received my long awaited Mullards M8100.
  They arrived packaged perfectly.
  So i just removed jumpers, mounted new tubes in and turned amp on.
  I immediately played some favourite songs...but what the hell I noticed? Is it really improved, bigger bass, I wanted?
  I cant believe it, lets try another song.
  OMG Bass is better here too!
  Let's try bass-heavy songs which lacked bass with previous tubes..And I was blown away with magnificent bass!
  Currently enjoying awesome bass I always dreamed about.
  DT 880 are musically balanced headphones, so you cant expect overhelming bass from transparent tubes and transparent audio chain.
  But these little Mullards make bass stand out.
  Bass that I missed since i bought them.They were perfect in every possible way. Except Bass. It was exact and punchy, but for my taste it was not enough of it.
  Now my audio nirvana has been realized.
  Real eargasm experienced today.
  My bassy songs are in my playlist again!
   
  Enough about bass now 
  Soundstage is pretty much the same as on EF91 and vocals are same like EF91.
  Roughly i can say EF 91 and M8100 have the same characteristics (I do not hear any sonic differences between them.)
  The only difference is this monstrous bass.
  I do not mean muddy crap.
  Powerful, energetic, exact punchy bass which shakes your head.
  Not killing any details, nothing is sacrificed.
  Beautiful vocals, perfect midrange, no hurting highs and this awesome bass.
  There is nothing I ever wished.
  Music is just ...magnificent now.
  It now has "Juice"
   
  So now my personal preference is: Mullard M8100 > Mullard EF91 > GE5654 (Stock)
  I think i will buy another pair to have spare set because this tubes made really Beyers sing and shine. This bass brought music alive (and me too).
  And finally I am enjoying and hearing perfect sub-bass.
   
  So in conclusion, tube rolling is fun, when you find tubes that suit you, are probably the most happy audiophile in the world.
   
  Regards,
  Imp


----------



## AlexRoma

Glad you liked them.. But your bass impressions made me several times like this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Anyway, I had not listened  EF91 tubes, and these M8100 have better extension (subbass) compared with GE5654 for sure...  Conclusion ? M8100 rule ! No more need for lottery money spending any more ... Thanks. I hope 50 hours burn in wouldn't change dramatic their sound signature.. Cause mine, burned in, sound very neutral and lush, with proper bass extension, but less kicking, compared to famous russian tubes (or any SS amp I had tried) .
   
  Quote: 





> Bass that I missed since i bought them.They were perfect in every possible way. Except Bass.


 
   
  I agree with you but would add some extra : "perfect in every possible way for the money they cost"  ...


----------



## -su

Hi Imp,
  Glad to hear you enjoyed the M8100 much bro!
   
  I've received my CV850 yesterday.
  Very forward vocal, smooths up the high and raise the level of lower mid to upper bass...
  I do feel the soundstage get narrower, but I realize it's because the vocal come more forward...
   
  I think this setup ( FLAC/WAV - Maverick D1 optical input (LT1364 + GE 5-star 5670) - LD MKIII Mullard CV850 ) will really bring synergy with any laid-back, valley-like freq response, and tend-to-dry headphone i.e DT880s, SRH840s, and maybe K701s...
  Still waiting for the tube to break-in, I heard a little uncontrolled bass on particular songs, hope it will go better after break-in.


----------



## Impulsive

Well, I only hope they wont change after time.
  If they do, there is still way to go: Tung-Sol.
   
  You know, YMMV because impressions are subjective.
  I just found, what i was looking for so that's the max. I could get.
  I do not want muddy sound where bass is present everhere.
  Just want bass to be where it is expected to be and be punchy, powerful, alive.
  And these mullards fulfilled my wish.
   
  Regarding your last sentence mate, I did not heard more expensive headphones. (Thanks god because it would probably ruin me.)
  I just love DT 880.
   
  That's all from for me now, I have now everything I wanted, no problems remaining, just enjoying music 




   
  Regards,
  Imp


----------



## Impulsive

Quote: 





-su said:


> Hi Imp,
> Glad to hear you enjoyed the M8100 much bro!
> 
> I've received my CV850 yesterday.
> ...


 

 Hi -su.
   
  You just wrote new comment right when I was writing, didnt saw yours.
   
  I just checked these CV850 on ebay and god, they are pretty expensive
  80 USD for marched pair.
  What's so special about them?
   
  I looked closer and they seems to have inner parts the same as Mullard M8100 CV4010.
  I wonder how they differ, since it is the same EF95 series.


----------



## mordy

Hi!
   
  Update on the Large Shield Mullard EF92/CV131/M8161 tubes:
   
  Pros: Very detailed sound, separating out the instruments clearly, good bass, beautiful highs. Responds especially well to the treble tone control. The EF92 tubes feel cooler to the touch than others I tried, but the amp itself runs fairly hot.
   
  Cons: Mid range dark and somewhat dull and mellow, lacking "bite" in the upper mid range , ultimately harshness in bass and mid range that becomes grating (but less so than the Mullard EF91 tubes). Poor response to bass tone control. Sound stage not extended. Transistorized sound in my system. Lacking the sweetness and tube warmth of the Mullard EF95/CV850-M8100/CV4010 tubes.
   
  After 60 hours of burning in I had to take the EF92s out of my system. At least it has become much easier to change the jumpers now. Put in the Mullard EF95/CV850 tubes. Finally things sounded just right again, nothing is bothering me, allowing me to concentrate on the music.
   
  Sorry, but in my system the EF92 tubes sing out of tune.
  Based on impressions by others, I had expected more, but I can only report on what my ears hear on my equipment....


----------



## Impulsive

Hi mordy!
   
  Thanks for reviewing EF92 tubes.
  Well, in audio industry, i think only 4 words say everything. YMMV.
  Because there are so many variations of audio sources through amps, to headphones and not to mention the fact that everybody likes another sound.
  You tried, now you know how they sound.
  I wanted too, but after your review, i wont waste money on EF92
  EF91 seems better than EF92 from what i see here.


----------



## mordy

Hi Imp,
   
  Don't bother with the Tung Sols - the Mullards have better bass. (But again, YMMV....)
   
  As to the CV850/M8100/EF95/CV4010 Mullards they should all be equivalents and very similar.


----------



## Impulsive

Quote: 





mordy said:


> Hi Imp,
> 
> Don't bother with the Tung Sols - the Mullards have better bass. (But again, YMMV....)


 
  Hmm, interesting. did you tried 6AK5 / 6AK5W Tung-Sol?
   
  I only remember people saying that Tung-Sols have better bass that Mullards.
   
  Quote: 





mordy said:


> As to the CV850/M8100/EF95/CV4010 Mullards they should all be equivalents and very similar.


 
  I am asking just because they aren't similar price-wise.
  Price differs a lot.
   
  From 20 USD for mached pair of M8100 up to 80 USD for matched pair of CV850.


----------



## mordy

Hi Imp,
   
  I have perhaps 3-4 different sets of Tung Sol tubes. I'll given them a listen again, and compare to the Mullards.
  BTW, Tung Sol invented this tube, maybe in 1943-44. There are a number of equivalent American designations such as 6AK5, 5654, 403. I bought some tubes from a seller that called them "peanut tubes!"


----------



## AlexRoma

Guys..
   
  I had seriously changed my views about Russian Groovy Tubes.
   
  The strange thing casing this was the fact that even after 50 hours these still get warmer and warmer..
   
  They still burn in... I had made some changes in my previous negative post on Russians. Check it out 
   
  I do seriously recommend these for a neutral/warm/dark sounding DAC. At the moment I enjoy my DT880's though them. There is definitely more bass in these compared to M8100's.. It sounds a little bassyer then my Audio GD NFB11 , and still lower, less agresive on highs ! These are not expensive tubes. You could at least try one...
   
  Here is the link for the best series of Russian 6J1P-EV tubes (1975-1978) . Buy the way... This E-Bay seller has put some serious creeps on my back... The fact is.. I live in Moldova too... I had bought my tubes on our local radio-market... Now I am 100% confident it is the guy I had bought from...
  One in a thousand coincidence...
  I'm gonna buy another batch of these, natural human greed


----------



## britt2001b

Quote: 





mordy said:


> Hi!
> 
> Update on the Large Shield Mullard EF92/CV131/M8161 tubes:
> 
> ...


 


  Thanks for the update Mordy. I didn't expect this response based on earlier testimony within this thread. I agree, what's important is what you hear and I'm convinced the same tubes will give different results on a variety of hardware.
   
  After about 60 hours, I am thoroughly happy with the so called Mullard "small shield" M8161's. They can be described as almost the opposite of your report on the large shields. The mids are very alive and pleasing, and they give the most classic tube sound from all the tubes I have sampled, far from a transistorized sound. I am in no hurry to remove these tubes. I'm enjoying my favorite music more than ever! 
   
  I know my low impedence Sony MDR 7506's are in the minority here but the Mullard small shield's seem to be a good fit for these headphones.


----------



## -su

Quote: 





impulsive said:


> Hmm, interesting. did you tried 6AK5 / 6AK5W Tung-Sol?
> 
> I only remember people saying that Tung-Sols have better bass that Mullards.
> 
> ...


 
  Hi imp...
   
  I got my CV850 only for 25bucks.
  Like I said on my previous posts, I also found one local seller who would like to sell his matched pair M8100 for expensive USD80...
  When I ask him the reason, he only said that all his tubes are imported and not locally bought.
  Well a little bit funny cause I know for sure there isn't any local tube manufacturer here at my country


----------



## Impulsive

damn.
  People trying to get rich on every possible thing.
  Thanks for your opinions and reviews people.
   
  Also nice link on that russian tubes, price is great.
  But i wont be changing anything, now enjoying M8100 bass so much 
   
  BTW AlexRoma did you saw the comedy RED? (Retired Extremely Dangerous)
  Do not thake this personally, I just lolled so hard :-D
  
  Quote:  





> I live in Moldova too...


 
   
  Moldova SUCKS 
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDiGljfJ778&feature=related


----------



## AlexRoma

Spoiler: Moldova%20SUCKS



 
  Hehe.. You know what, our people, living beyond poverty level, have learned making fun and jokes on each other more then the others... The other nations like Koreans or Japanese would surely ban the movie for this joke, not Moldavians.. In our county, at cinema, when hearing this words, people of all ages started a maniacal laugh, then a group shouting, like the one on the football match -> ole-ole-ole-ole, Moldova it sucks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  
   
  It sucks indeed...


----------



## Impulsive

Quote: 





alexroma said:


> Spoiler: Moldova%20SUCKS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice to hear that kind and relaxed people still live 
  I am not saying it sucks, just pointing out joke 
   
  Well, people beyond poverty level have nothing to loose, they are living this life like every day is their last, they arent bothering with politics, world opinions and such a crap.
  These people will help you first when you need help.
  Rougly said, people like this are in every nation.


----------



## mordy

Hi Imp,
   
  Went back to check out my collection of Tung Sol tubes again. Put in one of the most unusual tubes I have - a side getter Tung Sol. The silk screening is yellow and says Tung Sol JTL 6AK5.
  The top of the tube glass envelope is completely clear, and there is nothing inside the top part. It is as if the tube could have been made 20% smaller in height. The getter flash (silver coating) is in the middle on the side of the tube. The getter facing it is sticking out from the middle of the black plate, which is oval shaped. The getter itself is half moon shaped.
  I have not seen these tubes advertised for sale anywhere, so perhaps they are rare. (Got them as part of lots of tubes I bought.)
   
  The sound is very pleasant, polite, detailed and smooth. Nothing bothers me; I can concentrate on the music. These tubes are neutral with a delicious overall balance; nothing is exaggerated; they just sound right with the right amount of bass and treble, but without the "Wow" factor of the EF95 family of Mullards.
   
  Overall a very pleasant and listenable tube; one I could live with.


----------



## danska

Mordy,
   
  I'm gonna try to get my hands on some of those Tung Sols, or just some of the manufacturer in general. I'm still digging my 8161's and EF92 Mullards. The EF92 has a very nice sound, and I believe is about broken in now. I feel the overall presentation, out of the tubes I own is best represented by the EF92 family tubes. Unlike a lot of you though, I listen to Vinyl mostly.
   
   
  To the others talking about the 6H30, a few pages before your discussion I talked about buying a set of Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi (matched) and they were relatively affordable (not cheap still), but I got a big gain out of them. Now that I have a much better phono stage, I don't see the value in them as much since that was the reason for my initial purchase.


----------



## Impulsive

Hello mordy.
  very interesting, never saw such a tube.
  Can you take pic of it?
  I am curious myself.
  And good to know sound is nice 
   
  Oh how i am tempted for 6H30 but unfortunately my PCB rev. is 1.0 
  Yeah EH is much cheaper than russian 6H30 but good to know that it is good for that price.


----------



## danska

For you Imp, and everyone its probably worth buying more driver tubes anyways (as we already have discussed!)
   
  For the amount I spent I could have gotten a pretty decent power cable or some stuff to upgrade my Jolida JD-9. I'm not regretting it, because this amp does kick ass!


----------



## Impulsive

It sure does kick ass!
  However, i am not going to buy anymore tubes because this Mullards M8100 kicks my ass pretty fine!
  Only if they fail or change sound sig. after burn-in, story will continue.
  Now i love it in the way it sounds.


----------



## john57

I agree with you that the Mullards M8100 are very nice. I just roll them yesterday in my MKll. But what made the biggest difference were the power tubes. The original power tubes the Beijing 6N6-T were just plain lousy. There were good at first but latter after some burn-in they deteriorated with power compression, clipping easily and just sounds like the power tubes were working overtime. I replaced the Beijing 6N6-T with carefully matched Russian 6N6P tubes that have the Rhombus 5 Logo and it made quite a bit of a big difference. I was quite surprised and I no longer believe that power tubes make only 15% of the SQ.  I can really tell that having a matched pair had better balance between the channels and I thought that since my ears are not the same I was still able to tell the benefits of a matched pair.  The Russian 6N6P has more power, more clear sound and the bass is much tighter which made a big difference with the Denon headphones.  Also the treble has fewer sibilants but still has good high treble. Also tried another power tube, the Sovtek 6H30PI, which has a bit more power with the Denon’s headphone and a slightly more treble than the Russian 6N6P. I decided to use the Russian 6N6P as my main power tube and the 6H30PI as my backup tubes for the moment. 
   
On the driver tube side so far I changed to the Mullards M8100 from the stock 6JI. I was going to try another driver tube but the tubes never came in.  I find that the stock 6JI made everything sounds like it was coming from a metal barrel, a type of ringing. The Mullards have a smoother cleaner sound with no resonances like the barrel effect. The mullards also are a bit stronger in the low midrange and a bit less percerved distortion in the low treble as compared to the stock 6JI. 
Almost finished with the tube rolling but I may try again with another driver tube maybe from the EF91 family.


----------



## mordy

Hi John 57,
   
  I was surprised to see that somebody is using the Chinese made tubes because I have never seen a positive review of the Chinese made tubes for the Little Dot MkIII amp.


----------



## john57

Since my Little Dot MKII was new and was waiting on the new driver tubes which one set never came in turn delayed my tube rolling. I just put the stock Beijng 6N6-T in the trash. I will keep the stock 6JI for backup until I am able to procure a new driver tube set.
   
  P.S. There are some people in this forum that thinks that Chinese tubes are fine and other tubes just maybe be an improvement. By the same token there are  people that believe both Russian and Chinese tubes are bad.  I find that the Russian tubes so far have very good sound for the price.


----------



## mordy

Hi John57,
   
  Don't take me wrong - Chinese tubes are excellent in many applications, but I was specifically referring to the tubes that fit the Little Dot MkIII. (The latest issue of Stereophile magazine has an interesting article about Chinese tube manufacturers and tube manufacturing.)
   
  As far as power tubes for this amp I do not know of any other tubes that fit than Russian and Chinese made ones.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]I was thinking about a few things that I was saying in my pervious posts and I realize that the “barrel effect” ringing or to some an echo effect may give someone an impression of a larger sound stage that is not really there. However I prefer that sound equipment to reproduce the reverberation field of the room that is in the recording like a large hall, cathedral, theater or a small room. Some modern day recording artists sometimes over mike the recording and the reverberation field gets lost. Both of my Little Dot amps have their own DAC’s feeding into it from a single source, my Juli@ audio card. My Behringer SRC2496 is the master and my Radio Design Labs HR-DAC1 is the slave using a AES/EBU connection. I am using internal timing not source timing and set the resample rate at 88.2k at 20bits which gives me the best sound to my ears. I am waiting on my next set of driver tubes to roll.  [/size]


----------



## mordy

Hi all,
   
  Here is a cheap method of getting the oxidation off the pins from old tubes:
   
  Forget about expensive chemical treatments and solutions! Take a little pen knife, utility knife or similar and scrape the pins gently. Works like a charm! Cost; $0.00
   
  Tried a 46 year old tube today (OK, so I am older..). There was a slight crackling sound. I was worried that I had bought a defective tube. Then I remembered the above mentioned trick, spent 30 seconds scraping the pins gently, and no more crackling!
   
  Sometimes you try a tube and there is no sound at all. Before you throw out the tube, try this method. It may help to get the tube going.
   
  (If you want to read the scientific article where I got this information, google "Making contact with your tubes" and you will bring up a PDF file with this article.)


----------



## AlexRoma

Thanks for good advice.


----------



## G~mann

Hi all,
   
  I purchased a Little Dot MK III from a fellow Head-FI'ER about a week ago.  Currently I am using RCA 6AK5 drivers and Sovtek 6H30PI power tubes.  I am impress with the clarity, sound stage and detail of this combination.  I have read good things about the Mullard 8100/CV4010.  I think I might want to add this tube next. I am haunted by the warm "tuby" sound  of  the Class A amp I bought in the 80s and eager to find a tube with a similar sound signature.  I see a few 8100/CV4010 tubes selling on Ebay for $24.   Is Ebay really the best place that get tubes?   Have anyone been able to find these for less?  What sound can be expected from the Amperex 5654 or 6JIP-EV ? 
   
  p.s.  Mordy, I'm still looking for that $8 a pair tube.  I just don't believe it will be found on Ebay. 
   
  Thanks all


----------



## mordy

Hi G~mann,
   
  Man, you got to have patience to find the bargains. I do admit though that the prices are creeping up, and I am sometimes paying up to $8.00 per tube. I also admit that to get the lower price you have to buy more than 2 tubes at a time, maybe four or eight.
  Recently I bought several Mullard  M8100/CV4010 tubes for less than $5.00 each. They have not arrived yet, but once I get them I'll give them a listen and let you know how it turned out.
   
  Some time back I bought a lot of some 20 6AK5 tubes. One of the tubes was an Amperex 6AK5/EF95 tube made in Gt. Britain. The etched factory code indicated a Mullard tube made in the Mitcham Factory in 1967.
  A couple of weeks ago I found a single Amperex tube on Ebay. To my surprise it was the exact same tube I had, with the same factory matching date. I bid the minimum and won it. (Tip: sometimes auctions that end on Saturday evening or on National Holidays fetch lower prices, because people are probably busy with other things than watching auctions end.)
  So now I have a "matched pair" of Amperex tubes that look exactly like my Mullard EF95 tubes. Burned them in for around 50 hours, but the sound was different than my Mullard tubes - don't know why; maybe they were made to different specifications or just a different batch. Here goes:
  Pros; Detailed sound with sweet midrange, voices very convincing, fairly wide sound stage and fairly good bass.
  Cons: Upper range has too much energy, somewhat shrill sounding. Tried to tame it by switching from 6N6Pi power tubes to 6N6P tubes, with some improvement. The bass is a little flabby and diffuse, and these tubes do not seem to have a real good grip on the bass. Almost no response to the bass controls on my receiver.
  Pretty good tubes in general, but ultimately not truly satisfying to listen to.
  Just remember, YMMV.
   
  About the Russian 6J1P-EV tubes: Some people seem to think that they exaggerate the bass and the treble, while others love them. Since they are so inexpensive, you could easily try them out and decide for yourself how they perform in your system. There is a recent post (#2430) from AlexRoma that indicates that these tubes need much longer burning in than others. (BTW, regular tubes should be good for 2000 hours; the EV rating means that they should last up to 5000 hours.)
  Have fun!


----------



## G~mann

Mordy,
  Thanks for the info.  Are the Mullard  M8100/CV4010 tubes you bought still available at $5.00.  I really believe this is the tube I want to try next.  I do not think I heard a negative review about them.
   
  Thanks,


----------



## mordy

Hi G~mann,
   
  I bought the tubes on an auction, but the listing is gone.


----------



## AlexRoma

Everyone would like some 5$  Mullard M8100/CV4010 tubes ... I had been looking this thread from the very beginning, and there is a constant positive impression about these tubes.. 
   
  If the were a Head-fi top-list classification on MKIII tubes, Mullard M8100/CV4010 would have been the Nr1.


----------



## G~mann

Hey AlexRoma, I noticed that too.  Being new to all this, I really don't want to spend $24 for a pair them though but if I don't find the M8100 cheaper soon then I just may.
   
  Although, I must say that the RCA 6AK5 \ Sovtek 6H30P combo really sound great.  I notice that I am "digging it" more and more, the longer  I listen to them.
   
  I guess you can say that I am simply enjoying the bliss of my ignorance.


----------



## mordy

Hi G~mann,
   
  Don't blame it on ignorance - the main thing is that YOU enjoy what you are listening to. The beauty of tubes is that they are not entirely predictable, and the same tube sounds different in different systems.
  I have some RCA tubes from the 70's, and they have a very nice sound overall. No experience with the Sovtek 6H30 yet. The cheapest I found is $25 each + $6 shipping. So far I am resisting to pay that much.
   
  Does anybody have experience with the 6N6P-IR power tubes?  Any comparison to the 6N6P and 6N6P-i power tubes?


----------



## G~mann

Hey Mordy,
   
  What is said earlier about bliss was a play on the saying "Ignorance is bliss?"
   
  I have a pair of 595s that I really like.  I have not heard the 600s or 650s so I do not know what I am missing.  I am good with that.
   
  The RCA tubes that I have sound great - clean, detailed and very neutral,  a bit too neutral  but I like them maybe because I do not know how any other tube sound.
   
  Ignorance to better cans and tubes are bliss at the moment, but once I hear better, I'll want better.  Right now I'll just enjoying what I have.
  
  I've been checking out the Russian 61JP on Ebay.  They are priced decently.   I may pick up a few of these.  Maybe trade the extra here on Head-fi or sale them straight up here or on ebay.


----------



## G~mann

Hey AlexRoma,
   
  How are you liking the Russian 6J1P-EV tubes?
   
  I looking at picking some up on Ebay.


----------



## PanamaRed

I've been quite pleased so far with my MK III. I use it primarily with a pair of HD 650's and really enjoy the combination.
   
  After reading through this thread I ordered the following tubes:
   
  Sylvania 6AK5/5654 Black Plate O Getter
  Mullard CV4010
  Hytron 6AK5
  Electro Harmonix 6H30pi
   
  Thanks to all for your notes.


----------



## G~mann

PanamaRed,
   
  You list the additional tubes you ordered.  Have you received any of them yet?  How do they sound?
   
  If you don't mind me asking, did you get your CV4010 from Ebay?
   
  Thanks,


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





g~mann said:


> PanamaRed,
> 
> You list the additional tubes you ordered.  Have you received any of them yet?  How do they sound?
> 
> ...


 

  
  I pulled the trigger on all of the tubes tonight (through ebay). I have a local tube connection but I haven't inquired about local pricing at all.
   
  The CV4010 I bought are these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290546585784&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
   
  From my limited ability to decipher tube codes it seems like these pairs are from the Mitcham factory in the UK.
   
  A major plus about the MK III is how inexpensive 6AK5 tubes are.


----------



## Impulsive

PanamaRed good source, my CV4010 are from there too. Grear price and even better sound


----------



## G~mann

Well Guys,
   
  I have followed suit and purchased the Mullard M1000 from Vintage Audio as well.
   
  So now I have these tubes and the 6J1P-EV /EF95 one it's way.
   
  There both coming from across the waters, so I am sure it will be a while.
   
  Thanks again for the info.


----------



## mordy

Hi Panama Red,
   
  [size=x-large]R1L3[/size]
  R means the Mitcham factory, as you state.
   
  1 means the year, with an educated guess 1971 (or 1981?)
   
  L  means November
   
  3 means 3rd week
   
  If I got it wrong, let me know.


----------



## AlexRoma

Quote: 





> G~Mann, sorry for delay. You've asked me if russian tubes would be good match for HD595. Actually I think these are the perfect match for all HD5** series (as I am quite familiar with these headphones). I am glad you've bought Mullards too, because M8100's are the smoothest, yet punchy tubes of the group. But Russian tubes are on the dynamic/brigher side, the right cure for HD595's boringness.
> 
> Now I have a serious dilema to solve.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Problem solved. Stock Power Tubes (*6H6p*) had exhausted their life period. New tubes solved the problem. No mo under-power complains on 600ohm bayers.


----------



## G~mann

AlexRoma,
   
  Although I have the 6H30s they came with my MKIII when I bought it here a few weeks ago from a fellow Head-Fier.  It did not come with the stock power tubes.
   
  I do recall hearing that the 6H30**  put out more volume than the stock tubes. I suppose the HD 595s are pretty efficient phones - I don't think I ever gone over 35 or 40 on the volume knob.


----------



## john57

There is a new Little Dot tube rolling guide now available in case you have not noticed yet.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide


----------



## FrankWong

Quote: 





john57 said:


> There is a new Little Dot tube rolling guide now available in case you have not noticed yet.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide


 


   
 [size=medium]That is the most awesome comprehensive guide I've seen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Looks like a lot of work went into it.​[/size]


----------



## john57

As far as the 6H30  tubes goes. I am using the less powerful MKll and even so the LD MKll can drive my Fostex T50RP which is a power hungy phones just fine. The 6H30 tube gives just a touch more power with the Fostex but not with others headphones in my collection and I am not using it at the moment. I am happy with the current Russian power tube I am using. I think that the Schiit Lyr   hybrid amp may be a better choice for your needs.


----------



## mordy

Hi all,
   
  This tube rolling guide is amazing! I agree with almost everything there. Would be nice to add the Telefunken and Raytheon small mica EF95 tubes to the list.
  Looking forward to the power tube reviews which are not included yet.
  The only thing left after this is to point out which combinations of power tubes and driver tubes work best.
  (From a different post: I found it noteworthy that the 6N6P power tubes tame the overpowering treble of some tubes and make them very listenable.)
   
  I am also questioning how important tube matching is, having heard that there are very large differences with a range of tolerance of up to 10% in the production lines. Another thing I do not understand is the statement in section 4.1 that power tubes failed after 100 hours due to mismatching. According to David of Little Dot the amplifiers are designed with totally separate circuits for right and left to the point that you can run different tubes on each channel without causing any problems. Since I also had one my OEM power tubes fail after five months, perhaps one has to conclude that the power tubes are more prone to failure than the driver tubes.
   
  To be very picky and only buy the tubes from regular retail outlets takes the fun out of the bargain hunting. (Isn't that why you bought a $200 amp in the first place?) I am sure that you get very good stuff paying full price, but I maintain that with patience you can get the same tube for a fraction of the cost.


----------



## mordy

AlexRoma,
   
  Regarding the volume of your headphones, did you try to change the settings on the gain switches for headphones (located underneath the amp)?


----------



## AlexRoma

No. I find no reason for this, as DT880 600ohm are clear low sensitive, high impedance headphone. I've used max gain (10) from the very beginning


----------



## TMRaven

Quote: 





alexroma said:


> Now I have a serious dilema to solve.
> 
> I have a constant filling that my DT880 (600ohm) would benefit from extra power (at least 500 mW).
> Passport says, MKIII delivers 350mW on 300/600ohm load. Looks like this is the minimal requirement for these headphones, as I have to push my MKIII to the limits from which the hiss noise starts bothering me (80% on gain 10).
> ...


 


  Are you sure you have the MK3 on a gain of 10?  If so, either I have a fake pair of DT990 600Ω or the DT880 600Ω is just that much more insensitive.  Even with an MK2 and the DT990 600Ω I never find myself raising the volume knob over 20%, that's how much overhead I have for volume and power.  This is even with the slightly less powerful 6H6N power tubes that I replaced the stock power tubes with (of which I never had to increase the volume knob over 15%)  At the factory default game the MK2 came with (3) I had to raise the volume knob to around to 70% or so.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]I am now trying the EF91 CV4014 GEC tube. It is a General Electric tube made in the UK and has GEC painted in large letters on the tube. This tube is built like no other EF91 that I have seen, with a square wire anode ring on top and large rectangular structures underneath the anode ring. The tube is rather heavy and has a heavily gettered coating on the tube. This tube is nothing like the Mullard CV4010 EF95 tube in terms of sound, and turned out to be one of the biggest surprises in my tube rolling. [/size]
  [size=medium]The CV4014 GEC tube is a very detailed tube that appeared to have a bit of a grain that migrated out after a bit of tube burn-in.  It is a bit brighter in the midrange than the Mullard CV4010.  The soundstage is the biggest that I have heard to date. In choral music such as the Bach B-minor Mass and Mahler 8th Symphony, it is easier to pick out the sections of singers in the choirs while listening to the music. I get much better separation and placement of instruments in well recorded music. The GEC tube just has to be one of the finest examples around of the EF91 family of tubes. This driver tube also has great dynamic range and seems to be able to drive my Russian 6N6P power tubes a bit harder.[/size]
  [size=medium]There are some tradeoffs. First, poorly recorded music sounds worst like my STAX headphones. Second, this tube is not the best for closely miched recordings since the sound stage can fluctuate wildly depending on the kind of microphone being used by the performers. This tube really shines with my latest recording of the Carl Rütti Requiem, which was recorded in a huge space, yielding a spacious acoustic and large dynamic range. This tube resolving power is outstanding and my current favorite of the EF91 family of tubes. [/size]
  [size=medium]Next I will try the[/size] United Electron EF92 tube and I will be finished with my driver tube rolling for my Little Dot.


----------



## Impulsive

Quote: 





alexroma said:


> I have a constant filling that my DT880 (600ohm) would benefit from extra power (at least 500 mW).
> Passport says, MKIII delivers 350mW on 300/600ohm load. Looks like this is the minimal requirement for these headphones, as I have to push my MKIII to the limits from which the hiss noise starts bothering me (80% on gain 10).


 

 There is something weird about it.
  I do not know output power of your source, but mine MK III loaded with 6H6P-I is currently set at 20% while my DAC (E-MU 0204) volume is set to 90%
  If i were you, i would check mine gain settings and then inspect your souce.
  Because if amp is on gain 10 running at 80%, your source must be giving incredibly small audio output.
  My MK III runs at 80% when i set volume on E-MU to 10% and still not so much noticeable noise btw...


----------



## mordy

Hi AlexRoma,
   
  Thank you for pointing out that the Voshkod 6J1P-EV tubes need an extra long burn in perriod. I now have around 120 hours on my 1973 tubes and they sound very different compared to before. The bass, even though still very powerful, is much smoother, and the irritating sharp highs are gone.
  The entire presentation is more soft, and now the the highs even tend to be a little dark through my Audio Technica ATH-AD700 headphones.


----------



## AlexRoma

*UPDATE on* :_ I have a constant filling that my DT880 (600ohm) would benefit from extra power_
   
  I had found the reason -> both power tubes had been running half-dead. Looks like they had exhausted their life resource, came close to their death, but not died yet, a kind of tube-coma if you like.
   
  I had replaced my 6N6P power tubes with the backup ones, the problem is gone. There is no more need pushing the amp over 50%. The gain increase is frightening .
   
  Sorry for bothering you ... **** happens...


----------



## Impulsive

hmm.
  wow.
  both tubes died simultaneously.
  very weird.
  I am glad you are now enjoying your amp again


----------



## AlexRoma

I had not checked which one died of the two, just replaced the set with my backup matched pair and forgot it. This 6N6p are cheap and common in Moldova (4$ for both). BUT 6N30p series are very rare tubes even here...


----------



## Impulsive

Well, i presume that each combination of driver + power tube represents each channel, so obviously if right channel wasn't louder than left or vice versa, probably both tubes died simultaneously.


----------



## hal55

Can anyone advise if Amperex 6ak5 are bass heavy or not. I've read that the "W' version is although brilliant in other areas. Is the non W similarly warm, liquid and sweet? Getting keen to start tube rolling but the choice is bewildering!
   
  Thanks,
   
  Hal55


----------



## john57

HI Hal55,
  You will find your answer here at paragraph 3.2 which is the same tube you taking about and you will find more answers as well.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide


----------



## mordy

Hi Hal55,
   
  I have a pair of Amperex 6AK5/EF95 tubes that are made by Mullard from Gt. Britain, and their sonic signature sounds just like what is described in the above referenced tube rolling guide.
  I recently acquired a pair of Amperex 5654 PQ (premium quality) tubes made in Holland. I have not had time to burn them in yet, but an early impression is that these tubes have superlative bass. The sound is very different from the British Amperex tubes I have - will report later when they are burned in.


----------



## hal55

Thanks to John and Mordy for their reples. The tube rolling guide was a godsend! While going over it my eyes lit p at the sight of the  *Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV . Iuse the *
*I use the 6nip tubes in my Dac and they are brilliant so getting similar Voshkods for the LD will be great. Thanks very much for pointing me in the right direction.*
*Have no idea how to stop this thing going bold and underline since doing a copy and paste - sorry about that.*
   
*Hal55*


----------



## john57

Hi Hall55
   
  Yes the text editor that head-fi uses is kind of clunky at times.


----------



## n5750547

Hello all,
   
  Anyone here have D5000 which they are using with the MkIII? Or would the Mk1+ be a better match for them?
   
  Thanks
  Phil


----------



## mordy

Hi G~Mann,
   
  You wrote:
   
_ Mordy, I'm still looking for that $8 a pair tube.  I just don't believe it will be found on Ebay._
   
  Here is proof that you can find good tubes on Ebay cheap. These tubes I bought from England about a month ago.
   





 


 Enlarge
 





 Sell one like this 

  *4 X MULLARD M8100 - CV4010 VALVES* 
   Item condition: --   Ended: Jul 10, 201110:38:47 PDT   Bid history: 4 bids
     Winning bid: GBP 8.27      Approximately US $13.41


----------



## Cloud9Blue

Just a very brief review of the three sets of driver tubes that I have tried with my MkIII so far.  The source is a HRT Music Streamer II+ and cans are DT990/600ohms and LCD-2.
   
  Mullard M8100/CV4010
  These are the tubes that I ordered the amp with.  
  Bass:  Great energy, but slightly bloated
  Mid:  Slightly recessed, but quite accurate and detailed
  Treble:  These tubes give the most energetic treble out of the three, but this forms a bit of problem on DT990.  Some of the recordings exhibit significant amount of sibilance.
   
  Voshod 6ZH1P-EV
  Best of all three!
  Bass:  Not as punchy as the CV4010, but leaner and much more detailed.
  Mid:  Most detailed and forward presentation out of the all three.  Great for vocal, especially on the LCD-2.
  Treble:  Treble is still very detailed, but the energy is just a little bit lowered comparing to the CV4010.  These tubes cure the sibilance on the DT990.
   
  Hytron 6AK5 Black Plate
  Not gonna go into too much detail, these tubes are the worst three by far.  It makes my DT990 and LCD-2 sound like pairs of closed can, as the soundstage is greatly reduced and the overall presentation is very muffled.  Maybe these tubes can get better over time, since I haven't even used them more than one hour.  But I just don't have the motivation to do that.  The Voshod and together with my newly arrived LCD-2 is just too mesmerizing.


----------



## Deurklink

Is it common knowledge that little dots come from Hong Kong aka China?
  Didn't know this until i saw DHL's tracking output just now and it says that.
  is this always the case?
  I thought someone named David must be American or English, but i guess the zhezhe makes sense now


----------



## Deurklink

Quote: 





n5750547 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Anyone here have D5000 which they are using with the MkIII? Or would the Mk1+ be a better match for them?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hey Phil iam having somewhat the same problem as you, i bought a little dot mkIII for my D2000.
  And later found out that the little dot can go to 32ohm, i looked on the little dot forum and read that the MKIII powers the 25 ohms no problem.
  David told people there that its best that you order the MKI if you only have low impedance ones, the MKIII would do fine on low and high impedance ones.
  I would search on the little dot forum if i where you, you can find like 5 posts on the same problem.
  I read allot of people experiencing problems with the mark IV and the Denons, something with background noise.
  So i wouldnt go for that one.
   
  I can tell you if the mkIII works as soon as it gets here, but that might be a while (week or so).


----------



## casperry

Hello,
   
  Could ef93 and ef94 tubes be used? I looked the up and they are similar to all other families. And if not, what will happen to my amp if I still use them? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This rolling is so addictive that I find myself running out of different tubes I can roll. Cheers, Cas


----------



## john57

How much money did you burned?
  WE403A
  
 5654, CK5654, GL5654, 5591, CV4010, CV5216, CV8246, 6069, CV10442
 EF95, M8100, 6AK5W, CV10100, CV8159, CV8225, CV850
 6J1
  
  
 If jumpers are covering pins 2 and 3 (EF92 side) the following EF92 type driver tubes may be used:
  
 EF92, 6CQ6, CV2023, V884, VP6, M8161
 EF91, 6AM6, CV10327, CV138, CV1955, CV2195, Z77
 CV131, 9D6, W77
  
 These tubes are not on the list.
  6AU6 = EF94  
  6BA6=EF93
  I am a bit surprised that you are running out of different tubes to try.


----------



## mordy

Hi John57 and all,
   
  I have been corresponding with a seller on EBay who restores old tube equipment. According to him, there is one tube that he feels can be a substitute for 6AK5 - 6AJ5. Here is what he wrote:
   
  [size=x-small]"6AK5 is the substitute for 6AJ5 per RCA tube manual. [/size]
[size=x-small]http://www.nj7p.org/Tube4.php?tube=6aj5[/size]
 [size=x-small]both are the same pin-out, and same plate size, look the same.
 All the other substitutes look different.
 6AJ5 is slightly lower gain, which often means it would improve the bass slightly.[/size]
  [size=x-small]A friend tells me plugging in 6AJ5s sounds better.
 6AK5 is a practically equal replacement for 6AJ5.[/size]"
   
  [size=x-small]From looking at the specs these tubes seem very similar. Plate voltage is 180V for 6AK5 and 120V for 6AJ5 - the rest of the specs seem very similar..[/size] If you click on the link you will be able to access the specs of the 6AK5 tube according to the RCA tube manual at the end of the page.
  I do not have the technical knowledge to evaluate if the Little Dot MKIII will work with these tubes. Is there somebody out there who can answer the question if the 6AJ5 tubes will work in the MKIII?


----------



## john57

[size=11pt]I read the same thing and it does seem to be possible. You might have to readjust the gain switches. It is a close but not exact match. Of course that you will leave the tube jumpers to the 6AK5 position. [/size]


----------



## mordy

Hi John57,
   
  I asked David of Little Dot, but he would only say that since they have no experience with this tube they cannot recommend it.
  Would be interesting to try, but could it damage my amp?


----------



## mordy

Agree with the assessment that it would be difficult to exhaust all the possibilities of tube rolling the MkIII. There are so many tubes out there, and so many variants, even from the same manufacturer. In addition you must take into account the synergy between different power tube-driver tube combinations.
   
  Yesterday I was in for a real surprise. I was listening through my speakers to a 1924 Louis Armstrong recording. These recordings were done acoustically with the musicians blowing into a large horn with a pick-up that made a groove into a 78 rpm recording master disc. This was a direct-to-disc recording with no editing possible. One of the jobs of the recording engineer was to place the musicians at different distances from the horn so that the softer sounding instruments were closer to the horn, and the louder instruments further away. Needless to say, this was all mono recording with one channel only, and the sound of all the instruments appears to come from one point.
  As I was listening I realized that there was a sound stage, and that I could make out in my mind who stood at the right, center and left side. First I thought that this CD was one of these fake stereo recreations, but when I pushed a button on my receiver to bypass my MkIII preamp, the sound stage collapsed into one point.
  I checked out this phenomenon using my headphones only, and the sound stage was there as well, but not as wide as with my speakers. Chalk up another feat to the Mullard M8100/CV4010 tubes!
  (Power tubes 6N6P 1975 Novosibirsk)


----------



## Deurklink

The little dot just arrived, boy does it sound good with the Denons.





 im happy.
  Was going to order the RCA tubes for more bass, but i think its better to get a pair that generates less.


----------



## john57

Mordy,
   
  Changes are that you will not damage your amp but not with 100% certainly. It is more likely that the problem that you might run into is than the tube will distort. On the other hand the tube could work out well. I do not know what are operating voltages are with the Little Dots products but my feeling is that some Little Dot designs do not push the limits of the tube as hard as other designs from other makes.


----------



## G~mann

Hey Mordy,

Thanks for the reply.

Sorry I'm late to respond, I've been out for a while. I'll keep a look out for the deals on Ebay.

Right now I really enjoy both the RCAs and the Mullards. They are great for different reasons.


----------



## Impulsive

back from holidays!
  And new Voshkods were waiting on my table.
  They sound beautiful from very start, the best EF95 tubes i was listening to.
  No harsh highs, lovely mids and awesome, punchy and exact bass.
  Just love them.
  And at Yen Audio @ eBay they should be only for 24USD, they had some wholesale.


----------



## DanPluck

But why pay $24 for two when you can get 10 for $20?
   
  edit: i love the voshkods on my LD1+


----------



## AlexRoma

Quote: 





> they should be *only* for 24USD


 
   





  This made me lougth for a while.. We both know why 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Buy the way, which year were your tubes made ? I'm just curious because I've tried several times to fallen in love with mine (1975's) and every time ended preferring CV4010 over 6J1P-EV..


----------



## mordy

Same thing here - can't get to like my 1973 Voshkods even though they improved after 120 hours of burn in.
  The Mullard EF95/CV850 and M8100/CV4010 sound much better through my cans or speakers.


----------



## mordy

Hi D,
   
  The Little Dots amps come from China. My assumption is that the same quality amp as the Little Dot MkIII would go for at least five times the price if made in the US.
  The owner of the company is David ZheZhe. I assume that he has a Chines first name as well, but it is very common in business to use a name that is easy to pronounce and recognize.
  In any case, he answers any question right away, and provides excellent customer service.


----------



## mordy

Hi G~M,
   
  Here is a link to an auction that finished a few days ago with Mullard CV4010 tubes for under $4.00 incl shipping. (No, I did not win this auction)
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/280727900764?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2649
   
  So, with patience you can find bargains.


----------



## Impulsive

hmm, *2x Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV* for less price than 24 USD?
  Did i missed something?
  The lowest price i found is 24 USD on ebay.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





impulsive said:


> hmm, *2x Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV* for less price than 24 USD?
> Did i missed something?


 

 I guess you missed searching for 6J1P-EV.
   
  Guys, it's Voshod or Voskhod, if you will, not Voshkod.


----------



## AlexRoma

Yes, 'Voshkod' sounds wrong at all for a Russian guy. 'Voskhod' is the most accurate translation, I guess. There is no English 'sh' sound in the original spelling. 
   
  And yes, Impulsive, you've missed our quite often statements about  6J1P-EV  =  6ZH1P-EV .  If you look on the photos of both tubes, you'll see, even the factory marking is the same..


----------



## Impulsive

hmm, interesting.
  I didnt know that.


----------



## Deurklink

I just switched from the stock tubes to the Mullard EF95 6AK5, sound seems to have a little more bass as the 5654 (whatever the name ) stock ones.
  Also its a bit less bright, which i kinda like.
  Differences seem to be minute though.
  I guess i need to listen to them a little more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Impulsive

Quote: 





deurklink said:


> I just switched from the stock tubes to the Mullard EF95 6AK5, sound seems to have a little more bass as the 5654 (whatever the name ) stock ones.
> Also its a bit less bright, which i kinda like.
> Differences seem to be minute though.
> I guess i need to listen to them a little more
> ...


 
  That's the exactly same experience I had with Mullards.


----------



## britt2001b

FYI
   
  For those who will eventually drop a pin in the Little Dot MKIII while changing the placement, as I have done for the first time, there is no need to panic (as I did when the pin dropped from my tweezers into the unit). It was such a sinking feeling not knowing what faced me in the retrieval process. But as the famous quote says "There is nothing to fear but fear itself."
   
  I apologize if this has been discussed earlier, but this thread is too gigantic to check for earlier mentions. 
   
  I discovered that retrieving the pin was painless. I just removed the four set screws on the front face of the unit with an Allen wrench. The only connecting wires to the front face were connected to the volume pot so take care that these aren't stressed. I found the pin happily laying on the roomy bottom of the unit as if to say "Ok you found me, now put me back!" 
   
  Now that I have faced this dilemma the fear is gone, as I'm sure that I will have to repeat this many times to come.


----------



## henree

Should I splurge and buy Amperex 6ak5w for my Little Dot. There is a pair up for sale on ebay. I hear these tubes are extremely hard to find.


----------



## mordy

These tubes have the strongest bass in my system, but make sure they are the PQ (Premium Quality) variant and made in Holland.
  In terms of overall great sound other tubes may be better - look at the post at the beginning of this thread:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide


----------



## eljustinoid

I've just received a batch from a very nice UK seller:
   
  Mullard 8100 (now burning in)
  NEC 5654
  Siemens 5654
   
  I like NEC monitors on my computer, so their valves are bound to be good, right?
  And you can't argue with German engineering...
   
  In a few days I will report my findings 
   
  Without any burning in at all the Mullards sound just fine already!


----------



## jsvilla93

Hello, im new to this forum ive been working on tube rolling ang now getting into the hardware i look foward to sharing ideas and more with you all.
  jsvilla93


----------



## eljustinoid

The driver tubes my LD III came with are one with no markings, and one with a barely legible Toshiba logo. Innards of the two looked the same.
   
  I've tried all 3 sets of recently delivered tubes (Mullard 8100, NEC 5654, Siemens 5654) - only the Mullards have been properly burned in, but I've now had the Siemens in for a few hours.
   
  I didn't notice any real difference with the Mullards and NEC... but something is causing me to want to leave the Siemens in place. Maybe a little bit crisper?
   
   
  Certainly there is no "night and day" difference between any of the tubes I have tried including the originals shipped with the unit. Still it's good to have spares!
   
  I have some gold filament military spec 6N6 power tubes on the way (I hope!) so the game will continue.
   
   
  Winner - if there is one - amonst the driver tubes I have? Siemens.


----------



## eljustinoid

Two more tube sets arrived this morning, which will be the end of this chapter for now.
   
  - Military Russian 6N6P power tubes - supposedly gold grid though I can't tell - from a seemingly credible seller in Bulgaria
  - Voshkod driver tubes
   
  The new Mil-Spec 6N6P have been warming for a few hours. If anything so far they have less bass extension and seem dryer/brighter than the previous - also Russian - 6N6P tubes.
   
  So these military 6N6P combined with Siemens drivers produce a crispy kind of sound... I feel inclined to try swapping the power tubes back when these have had another day's burn-in.
   
  Unless the Voshkods do something wild I will probably stick with Siemens for the crispier sound that I like.


----------



## Bigabouli

Will these tubes with my LD MKIII?
   
  http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/390344056932?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_781wt_1082
   
  I'm new to this tube rolling business - these seem to be recommended by a lot of people right?


----------



## mordy

These tubes will fit fine and a lot of people like them in the LD MkIII. If you search E-Bay you will find them better priced (about a third less), and if you have patience you can find them significantly cheaper from time to time.


----------



## eljustinoid

I paid less for a pair of these from a UK seller who goes by the name "Yitry" on Ebay. I am not as impressed with these tubes as other people are. My recommendation for a different sound remains Siemens.
   
  Also I don't like the fact that the two tubes on that Ebay listing you saw are clearly non-identical, whatever the seller says.
   
  So try this instead - more tube for less money:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M8100-CV4010-6AK5W-MULLARD-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-/310282214423?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item483e42dc17#ht_500wt_1413
   
  And from the same seller - who will give multi-item postage discount if you ask:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5654W-EF95-6AK5-SIEMENS-NOS-BOXED-/310337986723?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item484195e0a3#ht_500wt_1413


----------



## eljustinoid

Here's some vacuum tube porn for all you tube rollers!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eljustinoid/6318979306/in/photostream


----------



## mordy

Reading the post about the Siemens tubes it states at the bottom of the Ebay ad that these are made in the US. There is something called EIA codes; these are three digits that tell which US manufacturer made them.
  I can see the number 185, but that is not an EIA code, maybe a date code or production code.
  Are you able to find the factory code or manufacturer? (GE is 188, Tung Sol 322, Raytheon 280, Sylvania 312 etc)
   
  The main thing is to find what you like, what works for you, and different equipment (and ears) react differently.
   
  About price: I am sticking to not more than $8/tube, or better yet, two for that price ($4 each). With patience it is eminently possible.


----------



## eljustinoid

My photo, a couple of entries up in this threads, includes the Siemens. Some of the writing has rubbed off, but it looks like the factory code is either 185 or 85 (I think I see the remains of a "1" in front of the "85"). This whole business just gets more and more arcane!


----------



## mordy

Things can get a bit strange... Bought a lot of several Mullard M8100 valves from a chap in England. One of them was a rebranded US made Sylvania tube with M8100 printed over the Sylvania markings!


----------



## britt2001b

What is the difference between the Sylvania GB 5654 tubes marked with "ABA" as compared to the same marked with "ABB"?


----------



## mordy

I assume that I got my Sylvania GB 5654 tubes from the same seller - mine are marked ABA. This is probably a date code, but as much as I try I cannot find any information on Sylvania date codes.
   
  The pins on the tubes I got are corroded, and I have to scrape them a little with a pen knife, but they are still dull and greyish. I have another Sylvania GB tube which has no corrosion, and the pins have a nice gold color.
   
  Does anybody have an inexpensive remedy to get the corrosion off to get back the gold color?


----------



## Raser

Use alcohol or connection spray. And pretty smooth sandpaper. That should do the trick


----------



## britt2001b

Quote:


mordy said:


> I assume that I got my Sylvania GB 5654 tubes from the same seller - mine are marked ABA. This is probably a date code, but as much as I try I cannot find any information on Sylvania date codes.
> 
> The pins on the tubes I got are corroded, and I have to scrape them a little with a pen knife, but they are still dull and greyish. I have another Sylvania GB tube which has no corrosion, and the pins have a nice gold color.
> 
> Does anybody have an inexpensive remedy to get the corrosion off to get back the gold color?


 


  Thanks Mordy. The GB 5654 pins were corroded quite a bit. Deoxit helped a bit but not much. I have no complaints with the sound, they still sound great. I don't have much knowledge of the Sylvania Gold Brands, but I wonder some Gold Brands were made with gold plated pins and some were not? I'm not sure if it makes a big difference, only the gold pins should resist corrosion.


----------



## mordy

Regarding the gold plated pins my educated guess is that all Sylvania Gold Brands have gold plated pins. Here is what the seller had to say about the oxidation:
  [size=10pt]"Use an emery board for filing your nails. They are pretty old tubes nos so some oxidation can be expected[/size]."
   
  Tried to find some home remedy on Google for cleaning up gold plated objects. The only thing I found was to use warm water with a very small amount of dish washing detergent and to dry thoroughly. (Did not try yet.)
   
  I have a number of Sylvania Jan 5654 tubes with the code 5960-045-8639 on the box that were made in the late 60's and early 70's. These tubes are said to be identical to the Gold Brand except for the gold plating. In my system these tubes have the widest sound stage.
   
  The main reason I bought the GB tubes was because they met my criteria of around $4/tube, and in the past they went for up to $15 each on Ebay.


----------



## azazell86

Hi guys, I've ordered a Little Dot MKIII with stock tubes on Monday last week from Hong Kong and on Thursday just 3 days later I had it in Romania   Talk about fast service.
  I am going two buy two sets of driver tubes from a local vendor: they are 2 x Russian NOS - 6J1P and two Mullards - one EF91 and the other one 6AM6.
  I'll get them for less than 20 bucks.
  Do you have any experience with these tubes? Are they worth the buy over the default GE 5465 that came with the MKIII?
   
  Also I've checked on the back of my amp and saw the two places where the jumpers are located, but on two of the three pins there is already a plastic cover similar to the jumper caps but the tip of the two pins are still visible. So my question is - when I put the jumper caps over the pins so I can roll my EF91 tubes, do I have to remove the already present plastic covering two of the three pins?
   
  Thanks


----------



## azazell86

Also something that I did not see discussed:
  As a source I am using a X-Fi Titanium HD through the RCA outputs. What kind of interconnect RCA-RCA cables do you use? I was thinking upgrading my normal cables to either: Nordost Blue Heaven or Van den Hul - 'The First' cables.


----------



## john57

No, You just move the jumper to cover the other two pins. The third pin is just a holder for the jumper with no circuit connection. That way you have a jumper available without looking for one.  
  
  Quote: 





azazell86 said:


> Hi guys, I've ordered a Little Dot MKIII with stock tubes on Monday last week from Hong Kong and on Thursday just 3 days later I had it in Romania   Talk about fast service.
> I am going two buy two sets of driver tubes from a local vendor: they are 2 x Russian NOS - 6J1P and two Mullards - one EF91 and the other one 6AM6.
> I'll get them for less than 20 bucks.
> Do you have any experience with these tubes? Are they worth the buy over the default GE 5465 that came with the MKIII?
> ...


----------



## jsvilla93

I just bought 3 SV GB all said gold brand but only one had gold pins?


----------



## audiophile noob

Quote: 





mordy said:


> The symbol is hard to see on the pictures usually, but if the tube says Mullard and Made in Gt Britain I would think it is the real thing. At the end of each listing bottom left you have a box to click on to ask questions. Just click on the box, go to questions other, and ask the seller.
> In my experience most sellers will answer within a day or so and tell you the facts.


 

 Hi all:
   
  First post on this forum! I bought the EF95 CV4010 made by Amalgamated Australia and they are marked "SDA" ($8 shipped). I just tried them last night on my LD MKIII and the sound was immediately superior in every way to the stock driver tubes. I was listening to Diana Krall's "Girl in the other room" album in high-res (bought on HDTracks) and I could hear a fuller sound, more bass (slightly woolly perhaps for now), sweeter midrange and lovely highs. I used to think the stock tubes were great but these are sooo much better!
   
  I can't explain why your experience is so different than mine. I use the LD as a pre-amp rather than as a headphone AMP. My setup includes a Wyred4Sound power amp and Dali Helicon 400s... I can't wait to burn these tubes in to see what happens (if anything)... If the real Mullards are better than these Amalgamated, wow!
   
  Cheers.


----------



## mordy

Hi Audiophile Noob and welcome to this forum!
   
  The tubes you mention are identical to the ones I have. They are responsible for my odyssey to find the right tube for me, because at first I though that I have gotten a real bargain on the highly praised Mullard tubes. When I listened to them I did not really like them, but it took me a long time to understand that these are Mullard look-a- likes, down to the round plastic pin protectors. So I tried a lot of different tubes, and learned a little bit along the way. Here is my take on a comparison between the Amalgamated and two Mullard tubes:
   
  I pulled out my Amalgamated CV4010/5654/6AK5W/6096 (they really covered all the bases!) RK-D-SDA and listened again. Here are my notes: Overall pretty good with good bass and treble extension, BUT: There is a harshness and tinny quality to the entire presentation. The mid range is not sweet, and the sound is not that detailed. The upper range overpowers the mid range and bass. Found these tubes irritating in the long run.
   
  Mullard M8100/CV 4010: Beautiful and warm presentation with excellent bass and treble extension and very clear instrument separation; wide sound stage. Bass is very strong and tuneful; treble very good - excellent overall balance. Very pleasant and involving to listen to.
   
  Mullard EF95/CV850: Very similar to the the M8100/CV4010, but the bass is a little less prominent and the treble a little more powerful. Both the Mullard variants are very sweet and tubey.
   
  NOW, please be aware that everybody has different taste, and that the tubes sound different in different systems. What counts is what YOU like, what works for YOU. My grandson bought a set of expensive Dr Dre by Monster head phones. To me the bloated, exaggerated murky bass was awful, but to him they sound wonderful, and he really enjoys them, and that is what counts.
   
  The main thing is to enjoy the music. Perhaps it is possible to come to a consensus that certain tubes are better than others, Each person has to experiment with choices from the good and excellent tubes and see what works best for them. It could be that my hearing at my age isn't the best any more, and my opinions may be off; at least I just try to describe honestly what I hear.
   
  Would be interesting to hear if other people concur with my observations or not.


----------



## eljustinoid

I spotted something interesting on Ebay - Brimar 6AK5 which had grooves in the side and looked uncannily like the Voskhod driver tubes... Price was relatively low so I could not resist and bought a couple of them (not matched or whatever).
   
  I had the Voskhods in the MkIII at the time anyway... swapped to these Brimar... Sound the same I think - excellent!
   
  Don't know if more of these are available but seemed a bargain to me. I have some other unmatched but very nice looking tubes on the way... Telefunkens masquerading as AEG, and some Jan Philips which seem to have gold metal deposit at the top rather than the usual silver colour. Hmmm.
   
  I've drifted away from the Siemens for now as being maybe a bit too bright.
   
  It's all marginal though...


----------



## eljustinoid

I just have to add to the above post that my Brimar 6AK5 tubes are labelled "Foreign". I see that there are other Brimar 6AK5 for sale and they do *not* look the same - mine have blue writing, the box states "foreign" and the indents on the tube, the getter shape and the pointy pins all suggest Russian / Voskhod !!!
   
  All I know is having listened for an evening they sound fabulous.


----------



## azazell86

Guys what RCA interconnect cables do you use from your music source to the MKIII?
  What set of cables is the best?


----------



## jbhildebrand

Just wanted to report on a tube I haven't heard much talk about in this thread; I recently picked up a pair of Ken-Rad tubes of mid '40s vintage off ebay.  I couldn't find much info on them, besides the fact that Ken-Rad got bought out by GE either during, or a little bit after the production date of these tubes.
   
  I can only compare them to the stock tubes.  As much as I love the stock tubes, I found that vocals, especially female vocals where very forward and almost cutting at times... far too seperated from the instruments.  The Ken-Rad tubes really mellowed out the vocals without muddying them.  Overall the tubes are very warm and mellow, with nice tight bass, just as good if not better detail than stock.  A very enjoyable sound that doesn't fatigue the ears.


----------



## mordy

(image missing)


----------



## mordy

Here is a brief history of Ken-Rad:
  http://books.google.com/books?id=8eFSK4o--M0C&pg=PA487&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&ots=2NiDGVo0NV&sig=ACfU3U03wkaLLtNsifnCUIUaFl9wZLuHBA&w=910
   
  Basically this company was bought by GE in 1945, and GE took over the manufacturing plants for vacuum tubes and built more plants. The tube EIA code 188 stands for GE's Owensboro plant which originally was Ken-Rad (Kentucky Radio). All the GE tubes for LD MkIII that I have found have this code.


----------



## jbhildebrand

Thanks, I'll have to check out my tubes when I get home to see if they have the GE EIA code... I don't *think* they do, but I can't remember


----------



## mordy

Here is a short list of EIA manufacturing codes. Looks like GE took over Ken-Rad's code of 188.
   
   
  http://www.wy9.co.uk/


----------



## eljustinoid

My Jan Philips 5654W just arrived. Definitely more/deeper bass than other tubes, and I'm liking them. Might be best tubes I've heard but will hang on before passing firm judgement.
   
  There's a chap on Ebay right now selling sets of 4x Hytrons for just under $20, and given what people here say about them I have ordered a set. 
   
  That's where all this madness has to stop for now though folks.
   
  What I bought is still for sale as Ebay item 200687857949 - mine did not have the gold top :-| but since they sound great I'm cool!
   
  Could these be the same though - at $10 for 5 units? Ebay item 140666068831


----------



## eljustinoid

Hytrons have arrived folks. Four of them for the price of two typical Ebay NOS tubes, but not tested or "matched". Cardboard packaging old and discoloured, a film of dust on the tubes. Definitely old stock! Tested in 1953 according to pack.
   
  I've been using Jan Philips for a week now - and the Jan Philips are real foot-tapping bass monsters - superb for dance music.
   
  The Hytrons immediately have a noticeable "openness" and improved soundstage/clarity feel to them (not burned in or anything yet), but definitely less "groove" than the Jan Philips.
   
  Very interesting to have such a difference in character.
   
  Special tubes that I can tell you about therefore are...
  - Brimar Foreign 5654 (these look the same as Voskhod, with the 3 grooves in the tube) - superb all-rounder, as is the Voskhod
  - Jan Philips 5654 - Bass monsters yummm
  - Hytron 6AK5 - liquid crystalline crispy clear sound, if that's what you like
   
  Based on my musical tastes I think the Jan Philips will remain in the Little Dot for the moment!
   
  If you have headphones with TONS of bass, the Hytrons will probably fill you with joy by adding clarity and letting your headphones take care of the bottom end.


----------



## putente

Hi everyone!
   
  I'm about to buy one of these Little Dot MKIII, and obviously I want to do some tube rolling. From what I've read so far, I'll start rolling with the Mullard M8100/CV4010 for driver tubes, but what about the power tubes? Which ones do you guys think are the best option for power tubes, with the best price/performance ratio? I read something about using 6H30pi power tubes would be the best, but I found many variants of those on eBay, at very different prices... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Hello,
  i currently sell my superb Mullard M8083 (very rare) and Voshod 6ZH1P-EV here in the forum fo a price lower than all auctions on ebay. That's your chance
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  www.head-fi.org/t/589925/superb-tubes-mullard-m8083-voshod-6zh1p-ev-for-ld-mkiii-iv


----------



## Yekrut

Hello,
   
  I've been enjoying my Mullard tubes for quite a while now, but recently the left channel has been affected by some sort of faint hissing/static noise. I was wondering if anyone else had previously encountered the problem and more importantly what the source of the problem may be. I suspect it is either the tube itself, something at the connector pins, or worse case scenario my headphone driver!
   
  Any help would be appreciated


----------



## mordy

Hi!
   
  The first step I would try is to pull out the left tube and gently scrape the pins with a little pen knife - perhaps there is some oxidation there that interferes. If that does not help, try to move around the connectors to the connecting cables a little.
  I doubt that there is something wrong with the headphone driver, but if you switch around the two tubes and you still have the noise in the left channel it may not be the tube but something else.
  Good luck!


----------



## Yekrut

Thanks Mordy for the help. I'll try out your suggestions when I get home and update you with the results!


----------



## mordy

Forgot to point out that you really have two tubes per side, so you should also check out both the driver/power tubes on the left channel.
  Good luck! (I am confident that you will find the problem easily. Personally I had to scrape off oxidation on driver tubes a few times, and I had one power tube give up. Apparently, the OEM 6N6P-i power tubes are only rated for 500 hours; the 6N6P tubes are rated for 3000 hours.)


----------



## phandrew

.


----------



## Impulsive

back after a long time!
  Did you missed me *after all this time?*
*Always....* 
   
  No update at all, i am enjoying my current setup and do not bother with checking another tubes 
  So far so good. Using headphones for music, games, and hell, movies! i watched all four Resident evil movies (my fav. series) in two days, enjoyed movie like i never did. DT 880 are hell of a dynamic headphones, i got shivers from music and explosions the whole time. And during movie, i totally forgot that i am wearing headphones. These headphones with Little dot are really a keeper. New year wishes and lot of <3 from Slovakia


----------



## fruitflavor

just purchased some nice 5654s for very good price.
  not completely sure what's included but from picture it seems like 10 GE JAN 5654
  couple rca, sylvania golds and several others. looking forward to tube rolling.
  Also is it really important for the tubes to be matched? some people don't really seem to care.


----------



## Speedv1

Got my MKIII a couple days (used) and it came with a couple tubes but I've decided to buy some more!
   
  I used the guidance from the little dot tube rolling thread and bought: GEJAN 5654W, Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, and Mullard 6AK5 M8100. Pretty excited for them to get here!

    
  I see what people were saying when they said that tube rolling can be expensive .


----------



## MikePio

Hey Guys! Need some help... Ever since I purchased my ESW9's I decided to get my "dusty" MKIII out once again and I noticed that the driver tubes "6H30PI" (mod) are having some problems. One channel is considerably louder than the other (right), so I switched the power tubes out and now the left side is much louder. Before dropping 50 bucks on new power tubes, I would like to know if the chances are that the problem is from the amplifier itself or more likely mismatched power tubes, or faulty ones. I am leaning toward the tubes being at fault but I am not sure... Thanks in advance guys!


----------



## mordy

It stands to reason that if the louder power tube switches to the other side when you switch the tubes, the problem is in the power tube.
  You may want to consider cheaper 6N6P gold grid power tubes that I have good experiences with. There are many sellers on EBay - the cheapest one today for two tubes is here: (Try to get 60's-70's tubes if you can; they are supposedly better than later ones.)
   
   
   
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N6P-ECC99-E182CC-Tubes-NOS-GOLD-grid-1979-1pc-more-/320836005970?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ab350f052


----------



## soze

Just joined the MKIII club.  I can't wait to get some Voshkod & Mullard tubes!


----------



## MikePio

Quote: 





mordy said:


> It stands to reason that if the louder power tube switches to the other side when you switch the tubes, the problem is in the power tube.
> You may want to consider cheaper 6N6P gold grid power tubes that I have good experiences with. There are many sellers on EBay - the cheapest one today for two tubes is here: (Try to get 60's-70's tubes if you can; they are supposedly better than later ones.)
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey Mordy,
   
  Thanks for the help and the link! very good price on those tubes. I am really looking forward to get the amp working perfectly as before, since I really missed that tube "flavor" in my music... Though I think I am going to settle for the EH 6H30pi power tubes, I think this would go very will with the M8161's... Also Soze welcome to the proud MKIII club and enjoy the sound! Cheers,


----------



## infinity650

Hello,
   
  the 6H30pi will be a great pair with the Mullards! For a little bit more detail and crisper highs, try the Voskhod ones. They're named variousliy, look out for the gold grid ones.

 For example, these: http://www.ebay.de/itm/130635182925?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
   
   
  Greets,
   
  Nik
   
   
  EDIT:   Does anyone know this kind of tube? Maybe how they sound?    http://www.ebay.de/itm/Tube-SEL-EF92-sehr-gut-/260949656146?pt=R%C3%B6hren&hash=item3cc1cfc252


----------



## casperry

The russian 6jip-ev is an interesting sounding tube, it really stands out of the rest of the ef95 family. Not that it is better than others tubes but the sound signature is vastly different (relatively). It is more forward sounding and loud and I suspect it's because it puts more accent on the midrange and treble. At first I didn't like its harsh presentation but now after many hours of use I take pleasure in listening to them. They are still loud and agressive but don't sound digital and lifeless like my ss amp. Interesting tube!


----------



## infinity650

Hello,
   
  I absolutely agree with your opinion about the Voskhod's.
   
  These days a pair of Mullard CV 4014 EF91 arrived. It's in the burn in phase but aloready sounding nice, warm, relaxed and animate for some toe tapping. I will report after burn in and longer comparison with my other tubes. But definetly no bad buy for about 18€ including shipping.
   
  Greets,
   
  Nik


----------



## mordy

Hi,
   
  Just want to point out that the Voskhods need a VERY long burn in period to sound their best - around 120 hours.


----------



## casperry

Hi,
   
  I agree on the burn in time, my pair has been running for quite a while before the sound improved. I picked up a used pair of EF91 mullards cheaply on ebay. I also have a pair of EF91 zaerix tubes as well as a bunch of EF92 mullards. They all share one good merit and it is a wide soundstage and a mellow, relaxing sound. Since some definition is lost in comparison to ef95 tubes I listen to them either through speakers or my beyerdynamic dt150s which are not as resolving as the hd600s which I prefer with ef95 tubes and my personal favourite m8100. Actually I don't have favourites carved in stone but different tubes satisfy my ever changing cravings, like one day I like strawberry ice cream but the next day I will eat chocolate one


----------



## infinity650

Hey casperry,
   
  do you have the Mullard CV 4015 and if yes, could you compare them to the CV 4010 (M8100) and the Voskhods? I'm looking out for them at a nice price for a while and just want to know they're worth buying owning the M8100, Voskhods and Mullard CV 4014 EF91?
  Which EF92 and EF 91 tubes do you own specifically?
   
   
  Thanks,
   
  Nik
   
   
  EDIT:: I'm confused! Which one of the Mullard CV 4014 tubes is the best? They're quiet a lot different versions, Best would be with photos and exact name of them. Please help me.
   
  I got these ones right now, think they're the CV4014 6AM6. Right?
   
  http://www.tube-shop.com/ebay/tubes/CV4014.jpg


----------



## casperry

Quote: 





infinity650 said:


> Hey casperry,
> 
> do you have the Mullard CV 4015 and if yes, could you compare them to the CV 4010 (M8100) and the Voskhods? I'm looking out for them at a nice price for a while and just want to know they're worth buying owning the M8100, Voskhods and Mullard CV 4014 EF91?
> Which EF92 and EF 91 tubes do you own specifically?
> ...


 



 Hello Nik,
   
  I'll write some comparisons later because it is late now and should be sleeping already. You have there in that picture the Mullard ef91 tube. You are spot on about the different versions of Mullard tubes. The best ones are the ones which were made for military (M8161,M8083,M8100). Civilian type is usually marked with the letters CV (CV4010 for example). Commercial type may have just the family name on it - ef92. I also have the cv131 which is a general purpose ef92 mullard tube and apparently belongs to yet another class because the civilian version is named cv4015 and the military is M8161 respectively. Go for the military version if you can afford it!
   
  Regards,
  Cas


----------



## infinity650

Hi,
   
  considering your last post I will go for the military specs. I know there's the "large shield" version, but how about these?
   
  http://www.ebay.de/itm/MULLARD-VALVE-TUBE-CV5377-EF91-MIL-SPEC-NOS-NIB-/310377236679?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item4843ecc8c7
   
  Can you guys recommend them?
   
  Greets
   
  Nik


----------



## casperry

Quote: 





infinity650 said:


> Hi,
> 
> considering your last post I will go for the military specs. I know there's the "large shield" version, but how about these?
> 
> ...


 

 I haven't heard of CV5377s but the proper military version of this family is M8083 (this code is printed on a tube itself).  I have the M8100 and CV4010 from the ef95 family and the M8100 sounds better.
   
  http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa1166.htm


----------



## Yekrut

Hey Guys,
   
  An update on my problem. After Mordy's suggestion I checked both the driver and power tubes for signs of oxidation. Indeed the front driver tubes seemed to have some discoloring that I was able to scrape off. The good news is that this solved my previous problem! So big thank you to Mordy for the tip.
   
  The bad news is I seem to have a new problem: sometimes my left channel completely gives out. I have to tilt my amp to the right, gently tap it for it to come back. It's a bit frustrating and I'm not sure what's causing this issue. I've also noticed some crackling when I turn the volume knob after leaving at a set position for a couple of hours.
   
  Both these symptoms are worrying me a bit, and I was wondering if anyone had experienced similar problems? If not have any of you attempted to open your amp? I might be able to find something wrong internally.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## PanamaRed

Just a heads-up, I am currently selling one of these bad boys with very little use on it (less than a year old):
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595301/littledot-mkiii-mk-iii-with-matched-mullard-81000


----------



## mordy

Hi Yekrut,
   
  Did you try to switch around the tubes to see if the problem moves to the other channel? First try it with the driver tubes, then separately, with the power tubes.
  My personal experience has been that intermittent but persistent crackling in one channel comes from a bad driver tube. If you have other sets of tubes to change with, try that, but only one pair at a time (first driver tubes, then power tubes).
  Lower volume in one channel was traced to a bad power tube.
  I would not open up the amp  before trying different tubes.
  Good luck!


----------



## Yekrut

Thanks for the help once again Mordy.
   
  It appears that one of CV4010 tubes was acting up a bit and was the source of the crackling. I replaced the right channel with the stock tube that came with the amp and the crackling went away. I'm now back to the two stock tubes, which although highlight the treble a bit too much for my taste, are mor enjoyable simply do to the lack of crackling. I'll want to make sure that the tubes were the source of the issue, and not something else in the amp, before starting to look for new tubes again!


----------



## mordy

Hi Y,
   
  Glad you found the problem. Since both channels in the Little Dot MkIII amp are completely separate, it is quite possible to use two different driver tubes. I have tried it, especially when I have two similar tubes from the same manufacturer, such as 6AK5 and 5654, and it works fine. (The same would work for Mullard CV4010 and EF95 or M8100 or CV850.) The same tube from a different batch with different looking plate and getter also works fine for me.
  Somehow, it seems to me that two very different tubes from different manufacturers, say a Tung Sol and a RCA, may have a slight detrimental effect on the sound.
  In general, my experience has been that complete matching is not really necessary to get good sound.


----------



## john57

It has been my experiences that tube testers do not really test the tube with the same load or voltage that the tube will be under in an amp unless you have one of the tube lab testers. I had some tubes that will pass the tester but will fail in an amp when the tube is fully warmed up. I even had tubes that failed in a tester but will work in an amp depending on the situation.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





john57 said:


> It has been my experiences that tube testers do not really test the tube with the same load or voltage that the tube will be under in an amp unless you have one of the tube lab testers. I had some tubes that will pass the tester but will fail in an amp when the tube is fully warmed up. I even had tubes that failed in a tester but will work in an amp depending on the situation.


 

 Yes, that is quite true.
   
  To really test a tube (especially for matching), one has to use a tube tester which allows different settings for plate voltage and grid voltage.
   
  An example of which is the Tube Imp
   
http://www.tube-imp.co.uk/
   
  The problem with most tube testers is that they only test tubes at fixed rather than variable test settings.


----------



## infinity650

Hi,
   
  my collection of different tubes is growing, not all have arrived, burned in and compared. Just an overview with some impressions so far:
   
  (2x = a pair, so don't be confused)
   
   
  Powertubes:

 2x 6H30-DR                        supertube, slightly better detail and authority, especially more contro in bass than the gold-pin
 2x 6H30PI Gold-Pin             very good, nice price-performance ratio


 Drivertubes (EF95):

 2x Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV                           : very detailed, very! nice voices, structured bass    -> allrounder
 2x M8100/CV4010                                  : darker, groovy, lot of bass, "flow" to the music       -> singer/songwriter, agressive recordings become less annoying
 2x RCA 5654 (Black Plate)                      : still BURN-IN  -> so far little bit cold, could be a perfect match with classic music
 2x GE JAN5654W EF95                            not arrived yet
 4x Voskhod 6SCH1PEV gold grid             : still BURN-IN   -> astonishing warm, striking different sound than the Voskhod above, further report coming soon
 4x Raytheon JAN-CRP 6AK5 5654             not arrived yet
 5x Tung-Sol 6AK5                                     not arrived yet


 Drivertubes (EF92):

 4x Mullard ?                                              not arrived yet, was an absolute bargain not knowing what tubes to expect. Let's see!



 Drivertubes (EF91):

 2x Mullard M8083                                           BURN-IN
 2x Mullard 6AM6 CV4014                          still BURN-IN: relaxed, no harsh highs, voices unspectacular and so far a little bit disappointing
   
   
   
  So, that's it for the moment, will update by time and having listened more intensively!
   
   
  Greets,
   
  Nik


----------



## jsvilla93

Hello, Ive been tube rolling for a long time and cant believe the differences in sound. But lately Ive added a oneac isolation transformer upgraded the caps inside and cant believe that it made an actual difference in improving the sound. Had a couple of friends listen and come to the same conclusions. Has anyone else  done the same. I live close to silicon valley and working in the semiconductor Field Ive noticed every piece of equipment hooked up to one of these isolation transformers because dealing in sub-micron geometries requires steady and clean AC. Meanwhile ill have fun checking my tubes again with the isolation transformer in place


----------



## infinity650

Hi,
   
  my english isn't that good but what I can read out of your post is that you stick too much to technical explanations for possible differences in sound. Music is emotion - try to stay emotional in comparing different tube sounds and I'm pretty sure you'll hear at least slight differences!


----------



## jsvilla93

Hi, Thanks for the advice im new to this game in the future ill try to keep things as simple as possible. 
  Regards. Joe


----------



## infinity650

subtle irony?


----------



## jsvilla93

Wrong post sorry.


----------



## mordy

Hi jsvilla93,
   
  Sounds very interesting what you write about the isolation transformer. What kind of unit are you using? I do not have any experience with isolation transformers, but looking into this on the net seems to indicate that they can be very effective in eliminating hum and noise from ground loops. Found an inexpensive unit from Radio Shack that a lot of people liked (even using it in cars):
   
  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062214#pr-header-2062214
   
  It seems to me that power line conditioners do a similar job. In a regular house there is a lot of electrical interference (RF noise) during the day when many lights, appliances and motors are on, and I found that the sound improved at night when these things are off.
   
  Then you have the discussion about if you are listening to your equipment or to the music, but that is a different can of worms......


----------



## jsvilla93

Hi Mordy, I'm using a ONEAC  CL1107 isolation transformer its basically like taking the transformer off the pole and putting it in your house. lower wattage of course. The main thing i noticed besides the improvement in sound is the voltage remains stable during fluctuations like the fridge running and other things in the house. With just my conditioner/suppressor i could see the voltage drops during those times mentioned. Just type oneac in the ebay search and you will see plenty. If you have any other questions just let me know.
  Regards, Joe


----------



## jsvilla93

Hello I have a question everyone seller talks about square and round getters what is the purpose of these designes and what effect do the have on sound quality. I have some WE 6AK5 tubes with solid rectangular getter off to the side and not on top the silvering is on the side instead of the top. Has anyone ever had these tubes. All i know is that they are one of the best sounding tubes ive heard in a while.
  Thanks. Joe


----------



## mab1376

I had some regular WE 403b tubes which are very nice, I recently just got some LM Ericsson 6AK5 tubes which are amazing in my MK IV SE.
   
  they really bring out the bass in my T70's which most people consider to be lacking in the bass department. Not bloated bass though, very clean, and super deep. They also seemed to have made them slightly less bright.


----------



## maxdot

Hello
   
  I just installed the 2x EH 6H30Pi Gold and the 

 
[size=10pt] CV4015 M8161 EF92 9D6 MULLARD




 
[/size]   
  and I got a small? problem now.
   
  The sound is coming more from one side. And the bass is extremely harsh at high volumes. If this is because the the tubes arent burned in yet or not I don't know.
   
  Do you think the sound will even out or do I need to send them back if sound is coming more from one side? 
  I set the right channel to 100 and the left to 80 for it to sound somewhat okay. Still doesn't sound the same from both really though.
   
  Any help would be very nice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  edit: I think I isolated the problem. It was the Mullard EF92 M8161 tubes that seemed to make the sound balance be broken and the bass too. So the question is regarding these.
   
  Also, are the M8100 better?


----------



## infinity650

Hello.
   
  First of all, clean all pins and contacts very thorough with for example isopropyl alcohol or something comparable. Maybe they're oxidated or just dirty.
  To sort out if there's a general problem with one of the 4 tubes, you should switch sides one after another. So you could start with the driver tubes and switch left and right channel one, then do the same with the power tubes.
  If the problem "moves" you're smarter and got the "bad" tube could be identified.
   
  I'm not that sure but I don't think just the lack of burn in time is responsible for your misery. Sound does improve  -  normally volume should be nearly the same even with no burn in at all.
   
  Did the problem turn up since you changed tubes or before?
   
   
  Greets
   
  Nik


----------



## maxdot

Quote: 





infinity650 said:


> Hello.
> 
> First of all, clean all pins and contacts very thorough with for example isopropyl alcohol or something comparable. Maybe they're oxidated or just dirty.
> To sort out if there's a general problem with one of the 4 tubes, you should switch sides one after another. So you could start with the driver tubes and switch left and right channel one, then do the same with the power tubes.
> ...


 


  Hello! Thanks for the fast answer. I edited my post. It was the ef92 tubes. 
   
  With ef92:
  Bass is crackling on these right now at high volumes. Sound volume in general is about 50 % of volume with original tubes, also 20% more to one side.
   
  So I just put one of these ef92 in beside my original tubes (the small ones) and decide which one is faulty and send that one back=?
   
  thanks again for the help!!


----------



## infinity650

Stupid question: Did you set the jumper right on the "EF92-positiion? The M8100 is a EF95 (jumper position OFF). Did you change the jumper setting? I hope so... If not: this could be your problem!!
   
  If the EF92 or the M8100 is the better tube can't be finally decided. It's all about your personal preferences and up to you to decide which you like best. Both are very good tubes overall.


----------



## maxdot

Quote: 





infinity650 said:


> Stupid question: Did you set the jumper right on the "EF92-positiion? The M8100 is a EF95 (jumper position OFF). Did you change the jumper setting? I hope so... If not: this could be your problem!!
> 
> If the EF92 or the M8100 is the better tube can't be finally decided. It's all about your personal preferences and up to you to decide which you like best. Both are very good tubes overall.


 

 Jumpers?
   
  How do I switch em and to what ?? First time I do this you see


----------



## infinity650

Wooohoo!!
   
  Crash course:  Jumpers are little (in this case) black "bridges" which are put on pins. looks like this http://www.paules-pc-forum.de/infothek/artikel/hardware/bios/CMOS_Clear/CLEAR_CMOS.jpg
  Just black in your case.
   
  There are two positions: the EF95 (standard / OFF) and the EF 92/91 (called EF92 on the pcb). You absolutely have to change the correct config to use these different types of tubes!
   
  You get to them by looking at your amp from underneath. There are holes through which you can reach them and put on the correcht pins. Use pincers to grab the jumper.
   
  And: read the manual!


----------



## maxdot

Quote: 





infinity650 said:


> Wooohoo!!
> 
> Crash course:  Jumpers are little (in this case) black "bridges" which are put on pins. looks like this http://www.paules-pc-forum.de/infothek/artikel/hardware/bios/CMOS_Clear/CLEAR_CMOS.jpg
> Just black in your case.
> ...


 
  Oooooooooohhhhhh !!!!! Now it works  haha, awesome!! I just had to switch the ef92 switches to on (they're in the holes beneath), that's it. No more crackling bass or strange volume. 
   
  Infinity, you're my hero!


----------



## infinity650

Awesome! Everybody got a hero inside!
  Now I wish you a happy tube rolling!
   
  And don't forget to switch'em everytime you swith the tube type. You should also try the Voskhod 6J1P-EV (gold grid) EF95 or the equivalent slightly different named Voskhods. If you're interested: I got a pair for sale right now. Just pm me for details. They sound superb and pretty cheap. I have another pair in use myself and love'em.


----------



## mab1376

Quote: 





maxdot said:


> Oooooooooohhhhhh !!!!! Now it works  haha, awesome!! I just had to switch the ef92 switches to on (they're in the holes beneath), that's it. No more crackling bass or strange volume.
> 
> Infinity, you're my hero!


 

 I actually broke one of my M8161's by not changing the jumper on the left channel.


----------



## infinity650

Hello,
   
  just received 4 Raytheon JAN-CRP 5654W tubes. Right now they're burning in on my MK IV SE. Just bought them on spec and haven't read about them so far. Experiences? Thoughts? Opinions?
   
  Will compare with my other 5654 / 6AK5 tubes like the Mullard M8100, some Voskhods, RCA black plates, GE 5654W JAN...


----------



## mordy

The early 50's Raytheon tubes with the small mica discs (not touching the glass envelope, and the entire plate assembly being supported by the bottom pins) are among my favorites.
  Later Raytheons don't sound good to me.


----------



## infinity650

Mine have been produced in 1955. Having them "burned in" for about 6 hours with pink noise they sound quiet nice. Seem to have a lot of "air" for a EF95 tube. Haven't heard enough and burn in will last couple of days to make a nearly final statement.


----------



## keyser

Hi
   
  It's my first post here! I bought the LD MkIII with CV4010 and have been enjoying it for about 2 weeks and decided to jump on the rolling bandwagon with Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV and EH 6H30Pi! I was pleased with CV4010, but I'm now on the slippery slope of rolling heh (rolling down hill.. I'm sure there are more rolling/slope metaphors  )
   
  I have a few questions about the whole tubes thing.. why does the manual and everyone recommend only using the amp for 8 hours a time and then leaving for 30-45 mins? If it's a heat issue, can I just point a fan on it to keep the temp down? Coz that's what I'm doing at the moment 
   
  When a tube dies, how will I know which one it is? power or driver? I guess now I have the stock power tubes and the CV4010 tubes as spares I can use some trial and error to find this out..
   
  Once either the left or right tube dies, does that mean I have to throw them both away, since it's unlikely to find a matching single tube?
   
  What's the best/greenest way to dispose of a dead tube?
   
  thanks


----------



## mordy

Hi Keyser,
   
  I also wondered about why you cannot leave on the amp for more than 8 hours at a time, especially since it might take over 100 hours to burn in certain tubes. Don't know if I can recommend this to anyone, but I put my amp on three 1" high aluminum cones (big in Hi Fi in the 80's), and there is adequate airflow around the amp. Different tubes generate different amounts of heat, but the ones I use don't make the amp too hot, and it is only warm to the touch even after being on for a day or two. I once tried some EF92 tubes which made the amp too hot to touch - perhaps that could be cured with a fan; how hot the amp gets also depends on the room temperature where you live.
  So far I have not noticed anything untoward by leaving the amp on for long periods of time when I burn in tubes; otherwise I shut it off after use.
  It is important to let it sit in the off position a few minutes when changing tubes to allow the capacitors to discharge.
   
  How do you know when a tube dies? In the driver tubes they usually go silent.  (First try to clean the oxidation off the pins.) If the vacuum goes, the silver coating turns white. Sometimes the tube crackles excessively. Main thing is that the sound diminishes or is absent in that channel.  Many times the power tubes start to sound less loud, and this is how you can tell if the power tubes are going bad as well. It should be very easy to detect if a tube is bad by noticing the change or absence of sound in one channel.
   
  Personally, I don't put too much importance to matching. If one tube goes bad, just replace that one with one that is burnt in. I don't think that you will hear any difference. You can even use different (but similar) tubes in each channel, since each side of the amp is completely independent of the other side.
   
  Regarding disposing of old tubes, I don't think that the very small quantities of chemicals/metals in the tubes are too harmful to the environment, and I would just toss them the way you dispose of glass. In my experience not too many driver tubes went bad, but I broke a few by dropping them. More problems with power tubes - please note that the stock 6N6P-i tubes are only rated for 500 hours (as compared to 3000 hours for the 6N6P tubes), although these ratings may apply more to the harsh environment in military applications rather than the TLC of an audiophile.


----------



## kabes

Regarding the heat issue, if you are worried about it one thing you could do is get something like a USB powered fan to blow across the tubes and amp. As an example: http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1295&ID=1801  - that one even has a knob to control the speed. Probably lots of other ones out there too.


----------



## MIKELAP

Maybe someone can help me with this .My question is related to the jumpers. if i am running tubes in the ef-95 family  where do i put the jumpers which pins theres 3  is it on the 2 first pins from right like on picture and when i see jumpers off what does that mean .do i remove the jumpers  can somebody explain this Thanks .


----------



## mab1376

The EF-95 is the same as the m8100 setting which you already have on.


----------



## maxdot

Quote: 





mab1376 said:


> I actually broke one of my M8161's by not changing the jumper on the left channel.


 


  Oh really, guess I was lucky then!
   
  Anyways I've tried the m8100 and the Voskhods now for some time (after using the m8161).
   
   
   
I was after more bass in sound when watching movies and also music, and wasn't satisfied with what m8161 had to offer.
I use the sennheiser hd650 and a xonard dx soundcard which delivers excellent sound imo.​  ​   ​  ​ So which of all these tubes gave the best bass?​ The answer is ironically also the one which is the cheapest of all, the Voskhods.Without a doubt this one has the best bass.​ The problem with the other tubes, especially the m8161, was that the bass was too slow basically. What I mean by that is that the Voskhods tube is able to deliver faster moving bass, almost creating wind inside your earphones, and thus it gives you more punchy and alive bass experience.​  ​  I tried all tubes very extensively. At the beginning I thought the bass of the m8100 was worse than the Voskhods. Then I preferred the m8100 had a bit fuller bass than the Voskhods. But then I tried a particular punchy bass scene in the movie Transformers (at 44 min where the plane uses 105 shells against the ground target). I realised then that the air moves faster in the Voskhods than the other tubes and gives a much more rich bass experience.​ The problem with the m8100 and more so the m8161 is not that they don't provide deep bass. It is that the bass is more deep and slowish instead of deep and punchy. The m8100 is about 70% of the Voskhods in terms of fast moving bass sound I would say. And the m8161 is about 45-50% of the Voskhods fast bass.​   ​  Conclusion: Which tube you want for providing best bass of these 3 tubes depends upon what you are going to use them for and what bass type you like. If you like the bass to be deep and don't care about it being fast, then the m8161 might be the way to go. I actually prefer the m8161 in some cases, such as when a male sings hoarsly, this tube really creates a superb vibrating deep bass and the sound of the voice is incredible. A good example of this is the song  Wishing Well by Terence Trent. Ofcourse the treble in the m8161 is better too than atleast the Voskhods.
  If you want punchy bass then I would go with the Voskhods. Song that have this faster bass like Michael Jackson or in movies, this is definately your pick. The m8100 does provide nice bass too, it is not slow bass but it is not really fast either. So basically if you go with the m8100 you get more deep bass kind of like the m8161 but with faster bass than the m8161, although you don't get quite the deep slow full bass like the m8161.
  The treble and soundstage of m8161 is far superior the Voskhods and a good amount better than the m8100. That said I did not like the m8161 because it had too much treble. You couldn't turn up music without the treble cutting into your ears. The tubes are so strong the ones I'm using that the equaliser really does not change much at all, I can turn down treble to 0 in my xonar dx equaliser and it doesn't change much.
  The Voskhods still has really nice treble, there is nothing wrong with it. For example in Watchmen the glass is breaking in the beginning when a man is thrown out a window and you hear the glass breaking so freakin clearly it's sick (with great punchy bass at the same time!!). The Voskhods is just not as clear sounding and exact as the m8161. But having more exact treble at cost of not being able to turn up sound in movies nor music without that punchy bass is not a good trade off in my book. For anyone interested I can post my AC3 filter settings (in k lite codec pack older verion) for being able to turn up sound extensively in movies without it hurting your ears so you get max volume at action scenes aswell as having the speech in a high volume and the treble at a nice level (this took me 2 days to set so it sounded good at max volume). I actually have the mk iii at MAX and the equaliser in my computer at MAX and the AC3 filter at more than default max volume level, so you can imagine the things I've turned up in the filter, it just sounds Awesome now. You can hear things in movies you never could with speakers I believe =)
   
   
  Hope this helped someone =)
   
 ​  ​


----------



## jsvilla93

Hello. All, does anyone think the 8 hour issue of leaving it on could have anything to do with the big 250v 220uf caps. I noticed the life span of these caps to be between 1 to 5 thousand hours of life. almost the same as tubes. The reason why i wonder is because i upgraded the 220uf caps for a friends mkIII and found the readings on the old caps to be on the low side 190uf witch is beyond the 20% tolerance. Could this be one of the reasons for the 8 hr issue.
  Joe.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





jsvilla93 said:


> Hello. All, does anyone think the 8 hour issue of leaving it on could have anything to do with the big 250v 220uf caps. I noticed the life span of these caps to be between 1 to 5 thousand hours of life. almost the same as tubes. The reason why i wonder is because i upgraded the 220uf caps for a friends mkIII and found the readings on the old caps to be on the low side 190uf witch is beyond the 20% tolerance. Could this be one of the reasons for the 8 hr issue.
> Joe.


 


 Heat is one factor. Heat can dry out or breakdown the caps in time. When changing the caps one thing that can help is to use caps with a higher temperature ratings when possible. Also heat can effect the carbon resistors and the value can raise over long periods of time. Wireround resistors are more stable for long periods of time in the heat as compared to carbon resistors. Heat can also casue some sagging on parts in the tube. There is also contamination in the tube if left on for long periods of time with no signal.


----------



## mordy

Regarding running the amp longer than 8 hours at a time:
   
  I would only do this when burning in new tubes. I would plug in my headphones and set my iTunes program to play continuously. Usually the amp, which is well ventilated, would not feel hot at all to the touch; if it did feel very hot I would shut it off to cool off (happened with some EF92 tubes).
   
  During regular listening sessions I would always shut off the amp after use, and I would never leave it on for extended periods of time.
   
  If it is correct that some of the parts in the amp have a limited life span of only 1000-5000 hours it would be very bothersome to me since I do not have the knowledge of how to change any of the internal parts.
   
  So far I have used the LD MkIII almost two years and I cannot hear any diminishing of the sound quality .


----------



## mordy

Hi all,
   
  Contacted David Zhe Zhe of Little Dot and asked the following questions (His answers are underlined and in italics)
   
   
What is the life expectancy of the Little Dot MkIII preamp assuming it is being used 3 hours daily? Are there internal parts that wear out or deteriorate over time similar to vacuum tubes having a finite life expectancy?

_No.  Lifespan would be pretty much the same as any other consumer electronics ~10 years or so._
  
   
What is the reason for your recommendation of not keeping the amp on longer than 8 hours each time?

_Possible heat buildup if placed in an area with low ventilation._
   
  So just keep on enjoying the the Little Dot MkIII and don't worry about nothin'!


----------



## mross110966

Hi everyone,
   
  I am looking to purchase a pair of decent headphones for myself... I am just getting started in the audiophile hobby, so if anyone has any reccomendations please let me know.  For now I am leaning towards the audio technica ath m50s.
   
  I've ripped all my cds onto itunes using the alac encoder, and i plan to do most of my listening from my computer.  I think the best way to go is hooking up an external dac to my pc to bypass the internal soundcard, and then hooking that up to a dedicated tube amp, such as the mkiii.  I don't want to spend too much on dacs or amps, though, because the ath m50 can only do so much. 
   
  So I'm wondering if that setup would be better for me, or if I should just buy a hifiman ef2a and use that as the dac and amp?  Would that be a better bang for my buck or is there really that much of a difference in quality that I should opt for the first setup?
   
  Thanks for your help


----------



## infinity650

Hello,
   
  does anyknow know this tube and heard / can recommend this tube?
   
  http://www.ebay.de/itm/6J3P-E-6BC5-6AG5-HF-Tetrode-Petode-Tube-NOS-Original-Pkg-Reflector-70s-/130618020202?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e6970d16a
   
  There are two versions as I see so far:  6J3P  and   6J3P-E.  Seem to be russian production like the "famous"  Voskhod 6J1P (EV).
   
  Tube type is 6ag5 which shall work in the Little Dot. They're that cheap it would be a shame not to try'em.
   
  Or do you guys would recommend buying/trying the RCA, Tung Sol, Sylvania 6ag5 ones instead?


----------



## kabes

I've tried a few driver tubes now and this is how I'd rank them..
   
  1. JAN GE 5654's
  2. Mullard 8100
  3. Stock 6ak5
  4. Western Electric 403b
   
  So yes the cheapest ones I bought (the JAN GE at 4 bucks a piece) sound the best to me and the most expensive ones I bought sound the worst to me.
   
  #1 and #2 are quite close but JAN GE sounds slightly more balanced to me. I will be running the 8100s for a while longer to see if more time with them changes the sound though. I'd be happy using either one. The Western Electrics had weird treble and actually kinda harsh sounding to me.   My ears just did not like them. The stock tubes were fine just not as smooth or refined, but way better than the 403b's to me.
   
  Pretty happy now and not sure if I should bother trying the Voshkods.
   
  BTW I am using Electro Harmonix 6h30pi Gold power tubes and HD 650 headphones.


----------



## mordy

The Western Electric 403B sounded exactly the same to me as you describe. However, an earlier version is called 403A, and it may sound different. Supposedly the only difference between the two is that the 403B lasts longer. I have not listened to them for a long time, but remember that different batches of the 403B from the later 50's sounded better.
   
  You do not give us the manufacturer of your stock tubes; mine were GE.


----------



## kabes

The stock tubes only marking is "6AK5" in white with a white box around it, very faint...so I am not sure.
   
  I'm not sure how to interpret the numbers on the boxes or tubes to give me a date on the 403Bs but the boxes look very old. The JAN GEs are the only ones with explicit dates on them, all say packed in June 1985.


----------



## infinity650

Hey,
   
  you should definetly give the Voskhods a try! There's a reason why they're recommended by nearly everybody who tried them.. 
  And they're that cheap so you don't waste money really in case you don't like them.
   
   
   
  Having listened to my selection of different tubes for a longer time I want to give a small overview of my favourites so far:
   
  EF95
   
  Voskhods and Mullard M8100 sound totally different but can't say which I like better. Both sound great in their own special way.
   
  M8100 is warm and relaxed sounding, nice (and a lot!) bass, beatiful mids (vocals are great) and no harshness in treble. These are my favourites for small arranged soul and singer/songwriter stuff. Especially on female voices. Little bit lack of detail.
   
  Voskhods are more detailed and brighter sounding, but absolutely fantastic overall. Very quick bass, nice mids, superb treble and detail. An absolute everyday allrounder for highest claims.
   
  I got other EF95/6ak5(w) tubes here like RCA, Tung Sol, GE JAN 6ak5W, Raytheon, Lorenz... but haven't herad them enough for final conclusions. So far no tube of these sounded nothing like bad at all !!
   
   
  EF92
   
  Just got the Mullard EF 92 (just written EF 92 on it) and haven't heard them for a long time but: they're nice sounding pretty much out of the box with a wide soundstage, toe tapping kind of presentation style. Maybe less authoraty than...
   
  the EF 91 Mullard M8083. This one really blew me away having expected almost nothing. WIDE soundstage, contoured and punchy bass, beatiful voices, absolutely detailed and superb treble to my ears. I would highly recommend them to everybody who thinks the EF95 models are too close sound, too much "in your face".
  Have also checked the (to me) indentically constructured Mullard CV4014 and couldn't find a differnce. Look for a bargain, they're out there and these tubes are absolutely worth it being patient.
   
   
  So far... I will give added opinions after having compared the EF 95 armada I haven't listened to extensively. Let me know what you think about my listening impressions!
   
   
  Greets
   
  Nik


----------



## jsvilla93

Good info Nik thanks for sharing. Your right about the Voskhods for some reason they end up in my amp in the end. But ive found a few tubes that sound really good one of them being a western electric jw6ak5 ive never seen a tube built like these, theres no getter on top  its silvering is directly behind one of the blackplates and if you look at the other side the tube looks perfectly clear no silvering. But the sound was so good it was hard to stop listening. Has anyone else seen or have this type of tube.
  Joe


----------



## jsvilla93

Quote: 





mordy said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Contacted David Zhe Zhe of Little Dot and asked the following questions (His answers are underlined and in italics)
> 
> ...


 
  Mordy, Thanks for digging deeper into the matter. Sounds like heat is the main issue in determing life span of the units. looking into the capacitor lifespan its hour rating is based on maximum temp and voltage eg: 105 degree celcius and 250v. Being that our units dont run that hot the caps should also last a long time.
  Joe


----------



## mordy

Tung Sol also made some tubes of this construction with a half moon shaped side getter and the getter flash on the side of the glass with the top completely clear. Have a few of these and they sound great.
  The EF95 tubes are quite small (some people call them peanut tubes!) but it occurs to me that the side getter tubes could be made even smaller since the top part is empty.


----------



## maxdot

Quote: 





jsvilla93 said:


> Mordy, Thanks for digging deeper into the matter. Sounds like heat is the main issue in determing life span of the units. looking into the capacitor lifespan its hour rating is based on maximum temp and voltage eg: 105 degree celcius and 250v. Being that our units dont run that hot the caps should also last a long time.
> Joe


 
  I have a computerfan (since amp is close to computer) that keeps blowing wind over the tubes constantly (mounted on the side of the amp). It is really nice actually they keep quite cool.
  
  Btw I would like to recommend for computer users to check out these threads http://www.head-fi.org/t/598998/how-cut-highest-treble-down-to-acceptable-level and to balance your earphones http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial (which I posted my settings for the hd 650 in search my posts). It has had a tramendous affect on my sound.
  After I balanced my HD 650 I will never go back. I would say this is the biggest lift in sound since I got the little dot mk iii. It has THAT big of an affect. Voices sound clearer, bass more defined and dynamic.


----------



## infinity650

Hello,
   
  here's a little update on my tube rolling experiences so far. My equipment can be seen in my signiture. Please keep in mind all impressions are absolutely subjective.
   
   

 *Powertubes*       *quantity* *sound impression*       6H30 DR 2 beyond doubt 6N6P 4 not arrived yet 6H30 gold pin   nearly as good as the DR, little less authority overall       *EF 95*           Voskhod 6zh1p-EV 2 Very detailed, fine voices, bone dry bass Voskhod 6sch1p-EV (gold grid) 2 nearly the same as above, but more bass. The best EF95 tube? Lorenz 5654 3 relaxed overall sound, little lack of detail compared to the class leader RCA 5654 black plates 3 pretty thin, but detailed and no harshness at all. Very nice for classic music Mullard M8100 2 sounds warmer than the other tubes, absolutely toe tapping, best tube for singer songwriter Raytheon 6ak5w 2 still to compare GE JAN 6ak5w 2 not arrived yet Tung Sol 6ak5w 2 still to compare                   *EF 92*           Mullard EF92 3 very nice overall sound. Pretty equal to the Voskhods with a wider soundstage and little less bass                   *EF 91*           Mullard M8083 2 similar to the EF 92 but lack of authority at very high volumes. Nearly my most favourite tube!       *6ag5 EF 96*           6j3p-E 4 not arrived yet Haltron 6ag5 3  not arrived yet

   
   
   
  Will be updated by the time I got new impressions.
   
   
  Greets
   
  Nik


----------



## mordy

Hi Infinity650,
   
  Could you comment on the best combination of power tubes and driver tubes? I found that the 6N6P tubes work well with tubes that have a too bright treble in comparison with the 6N6P-i power tubes. The 6N6P tubes seem to take away some of the undesirable brightness in certain tubes. Personally, I got the best results with the gold grid 6N6P tubes.


----------



## infinity650

The 6n6p haven't arrived yet so I can't comment on them right now.
   
  The best combination(s) so far (no ranking, just a collection)
   
  Both pairs of 6zh1p-EV, Mullard M8100, Mullard M8083 all in combination with the 6h30 dr "Supertubes". But with the Electro Harmonix 6h30 gold pins the sound was practically as good. Just slight nuances.


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Quote: 





infinity650 said:


> Hello,
> 
> here's a little update on my tube rolling experiences so far...


 


  Wow, nice list and great effort! I agree with you on a number of these. I've rolled through at least 10 different sets of drivers and 3 power tubes, and I think you're right on the money with these descriptions. However, if you want to continue along as I did to try and find the "ultimate tubes" for it (I've also got the MK IV SE), here's my ranking in order:
   
  1. Amperex Bugle Boy EF92. This is the one with the bugle boy logo, and my sets were manufactured in 1966. These are by far my absolute favorite tubes. They're wide open, creating the biggest soundstage I've ever heard from my headphone amp. The bass is clear and tight, and everything just seems to fit into place perfectly with these.
  2. Brimar EF91. These are slightly ahead of the Mullard EF91. I say slightly because they have their trade-offs. The Mullards have better bass and lusher mids, but the Brimars have more of a controlled presence even at higher volumes. The Brimars also have an incredibly clear soundstage.
  3. Mullard EF91. See above.
  4. Mullard EF92. Better overall sound than the EF91, but less definition in the soundstage.
   
  I snapped a photo on my cell phone of some of these little guys, it's cool seeing how different each manufacturer's designs were.


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Also, those power tubes on the right are the 6H30P-DR supertubes.Unfortunately, they're of the newer post-1999 stock, but they still sound great. Infinity650 has got me thinking I should revisit the Mullard EF92 to remind myself exactly what they sound like, though....


----------



## fruitflavor

thanks for the update. Looking forward to the rest of the tube comparison.


----------



## infinity650

Hey,
   
  @Bombay: where did you get those Amperex Bugle Boy EF92 from? Can't find them on ebay but I'm very interested in listening to them.
   
  The Haltron 6ag5 (EF96) have arrived a few days ago. At the moment, after having them burned in,  I'm listening with all kinds of music. Soon after I'll compare them with the best EF95 tubes as reference. Without a direct comparison I can confirm they don't do anything wrong. Pretty dark and strong bass, a piano sounds like a piano and voices sound natural too. Not sure about the quality of the treble yet.


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Quote: 





infinity650 said:


> Hey,
> 
> @Bombay: where did you get those Amperex Bugle Boy EF92 from? Can't find them on ebay but I'm very interested in listening to them.


 

  I picked up 8 of them for $4 each from ABC Vacuum Tubes. They were the ONLY place I could find them. I searched everywhere, and eventually just started calling different tube manufacturers in the US. You'll have to give them a call to see if they have any in stock still (I got mine about 2 years ago now): http://www.abcvacuumtubes.com/contact_abcvacuumtubes.html. I ended up selling off my extra ones about a year ago, so I've just got the 2 in my amp and 2 that are unused. 
   
  If it's any help, they go by the name of 6CQ6 as well as EF92. Good luck!


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





infinity650 said:


> @Bombay: where did you get those Amperex Bugle Boy EF92 from?


 

 Looking at the photo and assuming that "Made in Gt. Britain" is true, those seem to be Mullard-made tubes. The codes on the tubes should tell the truth. The print on them doesn't change their sound.


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Looking at the photo and assuming that "Made in Gt. Britain" is true, those seem to be Mullard-made tubes. The codes on the tubes should tell the truth. The print on them doesn't change their sound.


 

 All of the text on the tubes are:
  Amperex
  66
  20
  Made in Great Britain
   
  Text on the box:
  EF92
   
  I thought that the orange logo tubes (from the 70s I believe) and tubes *without *the bugle boy logo were re-branded, but that these were true Amperex tubes?


----------



## infinity650

Hey,
   
  thanks for the information. I already got the Mullard EF92 (6CQ6) and really like them. So I think I won't buy another predictably equal build EF92 tube and go on looking for a bargain on the Mullard M8161 (CV4015).
   
  @Bombay: the 66 20 should be the 20th calender week of 1966 as the date of build


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Quote: 





> @Bombay: the 66 20 should be the 20th calender week of 1966 as the date of build


 

 Yup.
   
  My question here is whether ANY Amperex tube made in Great Britain is actually made by Mullard? I had no idea a true Bugle Boy tube could be a re-brand. Anyone have any insight on this?


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





bombaytheindian said:


> All of the text on the tubes are:


 
   
  Please take a closer look. See http://www.head-fi.org/t/276757/little-dot-mkiii-tube-rolling/1785#post_5597821
  


bombaytheindian said:


> I thought that the orange logo tubes (from the 70s I believe) and tubes *without *the bugle boy logo were re-branded, but that these were true Amperex tubes?


 

  Nope. At this point Amperex was owned by Philips just like Mullard, Valvo, etc. They made some types in their US factories but also sold lots of tubes made by other companies of the Philips group.
   
  The Dutch factories were not Amperex factories, they were Philips factories. Mullard was "Philips UK", Valvo was "Philips Germany", and so on.


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Please take a closer look. See http://www.head-fi.org/t/276757/little-dot-mkiii-tube-rolling/1785#post_5597821
> 
> 
> Nope. At this point Amperex was owned by Philips just like Mullard, Valvo, etc. They made some types in their US factories but also sold lots of tubes made by other companies of the Philips group.
> ...


 
   
  Whoa, you're like the Tube Whisperer! Thanks for the insight and the recommendation of looking closer. I peeked at all remaining 4 tubes I have, and only 1 had barely legible print at the bottom:
  HI(?) Possible H1
  R6C3
  
  So *R*=Mullard, *6*=1966, *C*=March, and *3*=3rd week of month?
   
  Really interesting stuff.
   
  Next question, then: my Mullard EF91 are large shield military spec. Is there any difference between these and the Mullard M8083? The M8083 go for ~$60/pair on ebay, I think I got mine for ~$25/pair a couple years ago.


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Seriously though, it felt like I was in National Treasure and I was uncovering some old mystery when I found the codes on that single tube. "The clues were right there in front of you the entire time..." Lol, thanks Oskari!


----------



## infinity650

Just had this discussion about the different EF91 / M8083 / CV 4014 tubes in another thread. Conclusion was something like: Go for the cheapest Mullard, they're all the same. Had two different labeled pairs here, they were exactly the same.
   
  I cann recommend something like that: http://www.ebay.de/itm/M8083-CV4014-EF91-MULLARD-TUBE-VALVULA-USED-/140535416679?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item20b8904767
   
  or even cheaper. Got mine for about 10 bucks / 4 tubes.
   
  So in my opinion you can stay with your pair and don't think too much about a tube just labeled differently.


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Quote: 





infinity650 said:


> Just had this discussion about the different EF91 / M8083 / CV 4014 tubes in another thread. Conclusion was something like: Go for the cheapest Mullard, they're all the same. Had two different labeled pairs here, they were exactly the same.
> 
> I cann recommend something like that: http://www.ebay.de/itm/M8083-CV4014-EF91-MULLARD-TUBE-VALVULA-USED-/140535416679?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item20b8904767
> 
> ...


 

 Sweet, that's exactly what I was thinking. I was hoping I got a deal on mine. 25/pair matched compared to 60 is pretty good, but you can't beat 8/pair like you ended up getting


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





infinity650 said:


> Just had this discussion about the different EF91 / M8083 / CV 4014 tubes in another thread. Conclusion was something like: Go for the cheapest Mullard, they're all the same.


 
   
  Not so fast...
   
  CV138 by Mullard = EF91
  CV4014 by Mullard = M8083
   
  Compare these
   
http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/154/e/EF91.pdf
http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/129/m/M8083.pdf
   
  The General Notes on Special Quality Valves can be found here
   
http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Mullard/PD/rxspqual.pdf
   
  There's the material; see for yourselves what the difference is!


----------



## infinity650

You're absolutely right, my fault. Just the 4014 and M8083 are equal in my opinion.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





bombaytheindian said:


> HI(?) Possible H1
> R6C3
> 
> So *R*=Mullard, *6*=1966, *C*=March, and *3*=3rd week of month?


 
   
  The first line must be hard to read because that can't be correct, but you are correct regarding the second line. R = Mullard at Mitcham.
   
  This is where the Mitcham factory was: http://g.co/maps/f3wh9
   
  Check the street names in that area!
   
  The Philips codes are all in here: http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf


----------



## BombayTheIndian

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Not so fast...
> 
> CV138 by Mullard = EF91
> CV4014 by Mullard = M8083
> ...


 
   
  Great info, thanks so much for clarifying! That's really cool with the link to the old factory, too - too bad it's now just another suburban looking development  Those street names are great though, at least there's a little piece of history left in the area!
   
  Thanks for the educational session today, Oskari. It's sometimes hard to find people who are insightful without being condescending.


----------



## jsvilla93

Hello Everyone, A question on headphones has anybody heard or listened to the AKG-Q460 Quincy Jones and are they very good. Also i must reduce my tube inventory got a little carried away.
  PM if interested in a variety pack or pairs. now im using tung sol with the marking U.S. ARMY 6AK5WB- 5824B/C/D-5932 I think they were made before the JAN tubes can anyone give any info with the data provided.Really sound great out of the box.
  Thanks Joe.


----------



## mab1376

I just picked up some of these:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290678560214&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1123
   
  also ordered some of these:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/310392887909?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
   
  Can't wait to see how they both compare to my M8161's


----------



## infinity650

Hi guys
   
  little update on my sound impressionen while tube rolling on my LD MK IV SE.
   
   

 *Powertubes*       *quantity* *sound impression*       6H30 DR 2 beyond doubt 6N6P 4 very solid performance, you would miss anything if you know them exclusively 6H30 gold pin 0 nearly as good as the DR, little less authority overall       *EF 95*           Voskhod 6zh1p-EV 2 Very detailed, fine voices, bone dry bass Voskhod 6sch1p-EV (gold grid) 2 nearly the same as above, but more bass. The best EF95 tube? Lorenz 5654 3 relaxed overall sound, little lack of detail compared to the class leader RCA 5654 black plates 3 pretty thin, but detailed. Little bit lack of "soul". Pretty nice with classic music Mullard M8100 2 sounds warmer than the other tubes, absolutely toe tapping, best tube for singer songwriter Raytheon 6ak5w 2 nice voices and "flow", wide treble extension with a harshness at very high volume, wide soundstage for a EF95 tube GE JAN 6ak5w 2 very nice vocals, pretty airie sound overall. Bass is quality > quantity but for sure enough Tung Sol 6ak5w 2 good allrounder, but nothing specifically extraordinary. If look like it "colder" than Mullard sound e.g.                   *EF 92*           Mullard EF92 3 very nice overall sound. Pretty equal like the Voskhods with a wider soundstage and little less bass                   *EF 91*           Mullard M8083 2 similar to the EF 92 but lack of authority at very high volumes. Nearly my most favourite tube! Zaerix 6AM6 / CV138 2 Burn in? Nothing impressiv yet                   *EF96 6aq5*           6j3p-E 4 Burn in Haltron 6ag5 3 lot of bass, in your head sound, little lack of authority in treble


----------



## Acapella11

Dear Infinity650,
   
  Thank you for your tube sound impressions, very useful indeed.
   
  Interesting also because I am using a K501, which - in general terms - should be of a similar signature.
   
  Just got my LD MKIII and replaced the stock 5654s since they sounded somewhat too repressed in the lows but in particular in the highs. Although the mids were beautifully silky, the term that immediately came to my mind was restriction of dynamics.
   
  Instead I have burned in some Mullard 8083s (50 hours so far) and I appreciate the airy and not sizzling highs, wide stage and overall open and bright representation. Now, I look forward to two pairs of Voskhods (6ZH1P-EV, 6SH1P-EV) for more tube rollling... =). Voskhod actually means sunrise. 
   
   
   
  PS: It may be useful to post your impressions as well in the little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/330.


----------



## Andrew LB

I just took delivery of 2x Voskhod 6zh1p-EV gold grid tubes and I must say, everything you guys say about them is absolutely true. Fantastic tubes. 
   
  On Tuesday I have 2x electro harmonix 6h30pi-EV gold pin power tubes coming. I'm excited.


----------



## ninjames

Just ordered my Little Dot MKIII! So hopefully this thread will be a huge resource to me after I stick with stock for awhile.


----------



## britt2001b

Quote: 





ninjames said:


> Just ordered my Little Dot MKIII! So hopefully this thread will be a huge resource to me after I stick with stock for awhile.


 
   
   
  Yes it will. Unbelievably so! Good reading, good listening. 
   
  Also, if you haven't already found it, reference the "Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide"  http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide#post_7625993


----------



## ninjames

My amp came in with ridiculously fast shipping and it sounds amazing using the Fiio E17 as a DAC with my Sennheiser HD595. I haven't got the HE-400 yet, so I'm sticking with the HD595 until that point and it sounds great. I'm eager to break in these stock tubes and then start tube rolling to find the sound I like the best. Unfortunately, I'm getting a little bit of hiss so was going to check the pins.
   
  My uh, only problem is that this is my first tube amp and I'm not sure how to remove the tubes. Do I need to unscrew and take apart the amp to do it, or ..?


----------



## britt2001b

Quote:
   


> Originally Posted by *ninjames* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My uh, only problem is that this is my first tube amp and I'm not sure how to remove the tubes. Do I need to unscrew and take apart the amp to do it, or ..?


 
   
  It is not necessary to unscrew or take apart anything to replace the tubes. Just gently rock the tubes back and forth while applying some upward pressure and they will come right out. 
   
  I'm glad you're enjoying the Little Dot MKIII. It's a lot of fun trying different tubes and hearing how the sound improves as they break in. Be careful. It's addictive!


----------



## eljustinoid

Yekrut - I had exactly the hissing problem you described with a Mullard tube reasonably soon after purchase from an ebay seller who is a valve dealer.
   
  The seller replaced the tube for me - all OK now.
   
  Mullards are definitely a "top 3" tube for the Little Dot. In the end the best all-rounders may be the Russians, which I keep coming back to.
   
  Back on the JAN Philips for a while. They still have the funk!


----------



## mab1376

I really love my Telefunken 6AK5W tubes, anyone who enjoys a very warm full detailed balanced sound should give it a shot. They sound great with my HD650's and T70's.
   
  i'm still waiting on my Raytheon's and Voshkod's


----------



## Acapella11

After a bit of listening with an AKG Q701, I am just updating some impressions of tubes I heard on the LD MKIII.
   
  6N6P-I power tubes
  I recommend to test 6N6P-I power tubes. For me, compared to 6N6P, the sound is more relaxed and natural, which includes a little loss in precision. There was more bass and most importantly the tubes sound less sibling. The presentation is more "into the face", which makes the stage a bit smaller. Overall I really like their sound signature. Mine were from 1985, not sure how much of a difference that makes. Even if the overall change may have been less than when changing driver tubes, it is a noticeable difference.
  Now, I am waiting for 6N30P-EV tubes.
  
  JAN 5654W Driver tubes
  I would like to bring attention to this tube, which is not mentioned that often.
  The Sylvania (black plates, halo getter) has a slightly darker sound compared to the GE (grey plates, halo getter). Overall, the sound is well balanced and open with natural mids and a nice and airy treble presentation, which is not sibling, Lower frequencies are more prominent with the Sylvanias. The combination of 6N6P-I with GE JAN 5654W is a great one for treble lovers, mids and bass are fine too, but the signature is surely on the brighter and transparent side. 6N6P-I with Sylvania JAN 5654W give a little warmer sound and this is my favourite combination for the Q701 so far.
  JAN 5654W vs Voskhod 6J1P-EV: I found the treble more airy and less sibling than with my 100 hour burned in Voskhod 6J1P-EV (1971, 1975), the mids more forward sounding, the bass lesser in quantity but of good punchy quality and the stage is a little smaller.


----------



## ninjames

So I have a question. In pictures I've seen, there's tubes that REALLY glow with this amp, and you can clearly see the filaments (is that what they are?) and the like. The stock tubes I have don't glow much. Is it just the tubes? I know that's a weird thing, I don't need more glow or anything was just asking lol. Do better tubes glow more? Are there some consensus on some cheap-ish tubes that are great and an upgrade to the stock? One of the stock tubes glows noticeable less than the other, and the two power tubes are pretty darn dim.


----------



## Acapella11

Well, pictures can give impressions... that are difficult to be seen by eyes - for example because of the opening time of the lense or depth focusing effects.
   
  Glowing just depends on the way the tube is build and probably on the quantity of current it uses to run. When looking at my 6N6P-Is from the front, there is only a little top glow, when looking from the side, two long glowing wires are shown. When looking at the JAN 5654Ws from front a glowing wire is shown, when looking at the M8161s (EF92 family), most of the wires are hidden.
   
  I would be very surprised if there was a correlation between glow and sound.


----------



## ninjames

Quote: 





acapella11 said:


> Well, pictures can give impressions... that are difficult to be seen by eyes - for example because of the opening time of the lense or depth focusing effects.
> 
> Glowing just depends on the way the tube is build and probably on the quantity of current it uses to run. When looking at my 6N6P-Is from the front, there is only a little top glow, when looking from the side, two long glowing wires are shown. When looking at the JAN 5654Ws from front a glowing wire is shown, when looking at the M8161s (EF92 family), most of the wires are hidden.
> 
> I would be very surprised if there was a correlation between glow and sound.


 
  I definitely don't think there is a correlation between the two. I'm looking to buy some new tubes now though. I just don't know exactly what to get and I don't think I have it in me to read through the whole thread!


----------



## Max F

I haven't added anything to this thread in a while, but my favorite tubes right now are (at least they are parked in my amp for the past 6 months)
   
  Amperex 6AM6 EF91
   
  I wonder if these are the same as the famed Bugle Boys?  I mainly like them for the extra soundstage (EF91 are all wide) and neutral presentation which works well with the HD650s. 
   
  I just search for these tubes on e-bay.  I'm not sure where I got them but i surely did not pay more than 12 bucks for one of these tubes.  Unless you have no problem spending lots of money (then why would you buy this amp?) then don't buy a tube advertised for the Little Dot.  These are all standard tubes and there should still be thousands available out in the wild - but some are getting rarer, like the Amperex.  However, there are lots of rebranded tubes (British tubes for the US) for cheap and you may get lucky.


----------



## Acapella11

Ninjames, 
   
  To get an idea what tubes to get, you can use Infinity650's impressions and look at the first page of:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide
  to make up your mind.
   
  That should do for a start.


----------



## tigersinacage

Just picked up a Little Dot MK3 with a pair of Mullard M8100's and a pair of CV4010's.
   
  Just wondering, can I use the M8100 and the CV4010's together, or do I have to always have the same driver tube? i.e - M8100 + M8100 or CV4010 + CV4010.
   
  Would it damage the amp if I did a M8100 + CV4010 combo? Or are they essentially the same tube, so it would render this combo useless anyway?
   
  I also got a pair of Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV's with them too, but I actually prefer the Mullards. The darker tone and added bass really compliments my DT880's.
   
  I'm also guessing you wouldn't be able to mix a Voshkod with a Mullard? It's a shame, because I think the high clarity of the Voshkod with the deeper low tones of the Mullard would work excellently together.


----------



## Max F

You don't want to mix tubes.  Its like if you used a different padding or wire for the left headphone versus the right.  One controls the left and one controls the right.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





max f said:


> You don't want to mix tubes.  Its like if you used a different padding or wire for the left headphone versus the right.  One controls the left and one controls the right.


 
   
  Gotcha. Thanks for the reply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Been playing around trying all the tubes out tonight, and it seems that the CV4010's are coming out on top for me. The Voshkod's are just a little too bright for the headphones I'm using (DT880's)
   
  Same with the M8100's, they also seem a little too bright. Love that tonal quality of the CV4010's though, the bass is excellent. Compliments my headphones perfectly.


----------



## mordy

Hi Tigersinacage,
   
  Some time back I asked David Zhe Zhe (manufacturer) the question if you can mix tubes in the Little Dot MkIII. He answered me that since each channel is completely separate it can definitively be done.
   
  My personal experience has been that if the tubes are similar in sound it works fine, but if they are very different in their presentation it becomes distracting in listening. Possibly there is also a synergistic factor in that the sound is better with the same tubes than mixed ones, but I have no proof of such a synergistic effect.
   
  At one time I wanted to put in two different tubes and A/B them using a good mono recording and playing each channel through both my speakers and switching using a balance R-L control, but I could not figure out how to wire it.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





mordy said:


> Hi Tigersinacage,
> 
> Some time back I asked David Zhe Zhe (manufacturer) the question if you can mix tubes in the Little Dot MkIII. He answered me that since each channel is completely separate it can definitively be done.
> 
> ...


 
  Interesting, thanks! Before I knew any of this, I actually tried out the CV4010 + M8100 combo, and to me, they blended perfectly. The CV4010's are just that little bit darker, and they seemed to work really nicely together. Definitely didn't hear any channel imbalance.
   
  Looks like I've got some more experimenting to do!
   
  EDIT - Listening back, I think overall the CV4010 + CV4010 sounds best. Bass is so good.


----------



## tigersinacage

These are the two different Mullards I have:
   

   
   

   
   
  Voshkods:


----------



## mordy

The CV4010 tube (CV = civilian version) is supposed to be the same as the M8100 tube (M = military) when made by Mullard, so there is really no surprise that they sound almost the same. The difference in sound could perhaps be attributed to different batches and production tolerances.
   
  I do want to point out that there is a Mullard CV4010 look alike clone, including the plastic pin protector, made in Sydney, Australia. (One giveaway is that it is very cheap compared to the real ones.) This tube is sometimes advertised as a Mullard tube on the Internet, but it was made by a different company and does not have anywhere near the beautiful sound of the genuine Mullards. If the tube has the letters SDA on it, it means that it was made in Australia, using the Mullard coding system.
   
  Actually, this tube is responsible for my long odyssey looking for the best driver tube for my MkIII amp. Everybody raved about the Mullard, and I could not understand why the (fake Mullard) Australian tube did not sound good. I tried many of the different brands and types, and also, in the spirit of a $194 amp, I restricted my buying to not more than $8 per tube, and preferably a pair for $8. It is possible if you are patient and if you stay away from the tube sharks who charge you $85 for a pair instead of $4.
   
  Anyhow, tube rolling is fun and very interesting as well....


----------



## tigersinacage

Thanks for the info, pretty interesting stuff. Don't have SDA written on them anywhere, so I'm pretty certain they're Mullards. Although, I keep reading conflicting views on which model are military and which are civilian.
   
_MULLARD made a military version of the M8100 for the British Aviation Ministry: it was given the designation CV4010, "CV" standing for Common Valve, the British military prefix for all their valves._
   
  Also, the person I bought the tubes from (and my little dot MK3) mentioned that CV4010 = Military and M8100 = Civiian. I thought it was a bit strange at the time, as CV, you would instantly associate with civilian. I just figured he had got the sentence mixed up (He's Russian)
   
  Hmmm...


----------



## eljustinoid

Seems very odd to mix tubes - they don't work together....  one is left and one is right!
   
  Mullards are superb tubes alright but in the end I've concluded that the Russkies are the best all-rounders and I'm also super happy with my JAN Philips tubes for maximum bass groove.
   
  Everything else sounds good - but not as good as Russian / JAN Phillips / Mullard. With one exception... Siemens 6AK5W - which have a special crispy quality.
   
  Little dot. What a lot of fun!


----------



## Acapella11

eljustinoid, sounds you got your driver tubes pinned down. Which power tubes do you have and did you roll them?


----------



## casperry

woah, RCA 5654 black plates make my HD650 sound like the HD600 and I wanted to sell the HD650. Now they sound more balanced!


----------



## Cyll

Do you guys know if $35 is good for 2 Mullard 8100s or can you usually get them for cheaper?


----------



## Acapella11

These http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M8100-CV4010-6AK5W-MULLARD-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-/310282214423?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item483e42dc17
  would be $26-ish incl.delivery
   
  those http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M8100-MULLARD-6AK5-EF95-E-MATCH-PAIR-NEW-VALVE-TUBE-/390429216735?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item5ae7650fdf
  would be $29-ish incl delivery
   
  Both matched pairs. Both are great. The first ones are more seducing signature with a little rolled off treble, the second sparkles more with treble (my fav).
   
  I suppose, you could get M8100 tubes cheaper if you find the right auction. I wouldn't know an average price these days.
   
  If you are a real Mullard fan, check this out : http://www.tubedepot.com/sw-ts-003.html


----------



## atl5

Which tubes would be good to go with a pair of Beyerdynamic dt-880 600ohm? Would the stock be decent with them?


----------



## sssboa

Hi
  It's funny if you are from Toronto, Canada. I bought from a Canadian Ebay dealer from Toronto most of my EF95 type tubes for my DT880 600 ohm phones. Though my favourite tube are Mullard M8161 from EF92 family because they are the least warm and very detailed. After that my choice would be American EF95 type tubes as most neutral, best to me is GE JAN 5654W good detail and soundstage and $12 for a pair, and TUNG-SOL 5654 better soundstage but less detail, JAN RCA 5654W even more detail than GE but very small soundstage.
  But If you want extreme bass your choice would be English military Mullard M8100/CV4010 also from EF95 family.
  I don't remember the stock, I switched from them too soon, but they were decent I think but it depends on your luck as they don't get through much quality control I guess in China. Switching between tubes makes very audible difference, it's not like changing opamps or cables.
  Andy


----------



## mordy

Hi sssboa,
   
  The stock driver tubes I received that came with my Little Dot MkIII  were GE5654. These are pretty good, but as you can see, there are better choices. You have to try to find out what suits your taste the best.
  It's funny what you write about Chinese quality control. My stock GE tubes looked the same, except for that one had black plate and one grey plate. I could not hear any difference, though. (One of the great myths about tubes is that black plate sounds better.)
   
  BTW, I have only come across black, grey and silver plate. (The silver plate were RCA and did not sound good at all, but I don't think that the color of the plate contributes to the sound.)


----------



## sssboa

Quote: 





mordy said:


> Hi sssboa,
> 
> The stock driver tubes I received that came with my Little Dot MkIII  were GE5654. These are pretty good, but as you can see, there are better choices. You have to try to find out what suits your taste the best.
> It's funny what you write about Chinese quality control. My stock GE tubes looked the same, except for that one had black plate and one grey plate. I could not hear any difference, though. (One of the great myths about tubes is that black plate sounds better.)
> ...


 
  I forgot that the stock tubes in MKIII and higher are not the Chinese valves as came in my MKII but they are GE JAN 5654W and they are very good as I wrote and they are my favourite EF95, so stock will sound fine. And colour of the plate does not make a difference. I had the type  same 5654 Tung-Sol black plate from 1956 and grey plate from I don't know 80s maybe and they sounded pretty much the same.


----------



## Monir

I just started considering tube rolling on my MKIII but I'm a bit puzzled by the different definitions on the models. I've decided on trying out the Voshkods and the M8100/CV4010, but I keep noticing on some items that "EF95" and "6AK5" is included in the titles. Could someone verify quick what this signifies? For example, I've seen Mullard EF95/CV850 which is a different tube.


----------



## mordy

Dear boyyo,
   
  Different manufacturers gave different designations to tubes with the same or almost the same specifications. There could be more than a dozen different names for the 6AK5 tube. Tubes with the same designation usually sound different from different manufacturers. The best thing is to read through the blog and then you will get a good idea what to choose from.
  How about LM Ericsson 403B?
  Lycka till med tube rolling!


----------



## Monir

Quote: 





mordy said:


> Dear boyyo,
> 
> Different manufacturers gave different designations to tubes with the same or almost the same specifications. There could be more than a dozen different names for the 6AK5 tube. Tubes with the same designation usually sound different from different manufacturers. The best thing is to read through the blog and then you will get a good idea what to choose from.
> How about LM Ericsson 403B?
> Lycka till med tube rolling!


 

 Tack!
  So if I understand this correct: EF95 is Mullard's designation of the 6AK5? I'm guessing then that I would want to purchase this item: http://www.ebay.com/itm/M8100-CV4010-MULLARD-6AK5-EF95-E-MATCH-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-81-27-/390368746675?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item5ae3ca5cb3 for the M8100/CV4010 that has been recommended here on head-fi?
   
  I've no idea about the Ericsson 403B, first time I hear about them. I will look them up and see what I find. I mostly want something bass-heavy with good treble and warmth, thus my choice for the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV and CV4010 Mullard.
   
  Also, is there any point in changing the stock power tubes? I've read that 6H30pi is a popular choice. But I've also heard that the 6H30pi doesn't match very well with the MKIII and works best with MKIV.


----------



## mordy

Hi boyyo,
   
  The answers to ALL your questions are on this blog. Take the time, and read through the entries from the beginning with a notebook in hand. After you read it, you will become an expert on tubes for the MKIII. It takes time, but it is worth it.
   
  Head-Fi has another tube blog for the Little Dot, and the first entry there is very helpful, as well as all the other entries. Here is the link:
   
   
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide
   
   
  (Det dunkelt tankta ar det dunkelt sagda)


----------



## Acapella11

Dear boyyo,
  I can second mordy's post, incuding the link to the other thread. I would suggest to include these tubes in your tube rolling, you will not regret it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





:
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M8100-MULLARD-6AK5-EF95-E-MATCH-PAIR-NEW-VALVE-TUBE-/390429216735?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item5ae7650fdf


----------



## zedmeco

I am mainly blaming Penchum, because of his fantastic review, today I have ordered the little dot mkiii, a pair of sennheiser hd650, Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV Matched Pair, Sylvania JHS 6AK5 Matched Pair, and I am looking at the mullard m8100. I cant wait to start the burn! z
   
just connected everything....wow,  and this sound is going to get better!!
   
just slipped in the voshkods. straight out of the box with no burn the tubes are really special. the music has so much more life. wow
i also have the mullards and the sylvania but they will have to wait!


----------



## Acapella11

Congrats zedmeco, you will surely enjoy this setup. If you want to treat yourself for Xmas (again  ), have a look at a pair of 6H30 tubes (I got the Sovtek 6H30-EV). This is another step up. It was the first time it made me realise how good or bad my driver tubes are in terms of spatial focus. Some were more blurred than others.
  After recent auditioning, I picked the Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV and the Mullard M8100 KB/D (small Mullard logo, I linked above) as my favourites, so far. I am not using the CV4010 "no Mullard logo" nor even my otherwise loved Sylvania JAN 5654Ws any more.


----------



## Mikkee33

Hi, how do you change the jumper setting to EF 91? At the moment I have all switches left and right positioned on the left hand side. (viewing the amp upside down volume control at the front left)
   
  Any help much appreciated, as I donot want to damage my amp with the wrong jumper settings.
   
  Many thanks.
   
  Mike


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





mikkee33 said:


> Hi, how do you change the jumper setting to EF 91? At the moment I have all switches left and right positioned on the left hand side. (viewing the amp upside down volume control at the front left)
> 
> Any help much appreciated, as I donot want to damage my amp with the wrong jumper settings.
> 
> ...


 
  Are you talking about these settings
  you just change the jumper to the ef92 side you see the 3 pins the jumper sits on it would be placed on the left side


----------



## MIKELAP

this is from the mk3 booklet.


----------



## S60R

*D**n you, d**n you all!  *





 I've been reading easily over 300 + pages on this forum and it has made a very big HOLE in my wallet...
 I became interested in a headphone amplifier for 3 months ago because I never got to listen to my music on my home theater system for the last 3 years. Because my girlfriend she suffers from Tinitus. (X-girlfriend I want to add ...)

 I became aware of the Little Dot MKIII and had almost made ​​up my mind on the MK III version, when I read more & more on this forum so it became that I decided to update & go directly to the Little dot MKIV SE model instead, because there were more opportunities with tube rolling and better components. 
 As I was going to start in a few months to keep the cash flow down ... Do you think I could stick to it!?! A wery big NOOOOOO!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now it has gone so far that I have stuck in tubswopping- swamp and has for the past two weeks has order a Little Dot MKIV SE + approx. 50 tubes ...

 I got my Little Dot today & have been recived 16 tubes already! :-D

 My collection of tubes looks / or will look like this in the near future:
   

 2st. Electro Harmonix 6H30PI Gold-Pin -12             M. PAIR
 2st. 6N6P Gold Grid Double Triode -78                    M. PAIR
 10st. 6N6P Gold Grid Double Triode -80
 2st. 6N6P Gold Grid Double Triode -63
 2st. SOVTEK 6H30PI-EB ARC Conrad Johnson -11  M.PAIR

 2st. 6J1P-EV Gold-Platinum grid Gold Pins -77       M. PAIR
 4st. 6J1P-EV / 6ZH1P-EV Gold Grid -80                 M. Quad
 22st. 6J1P-EV Gold-Platinum grid -71 -75
 2st. Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV -80?
 4st. Mullard M8161 CV4015 -80
 2st. M8100 CV4010 -83                                        M. PAIR
 4st. GE JAN5654W                                              M. PAIR

 I hope you understand that I mean that I am extremely grateful for all the posts that you all have contributed with, both + and -. That has been much appreciated by me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now it will probably take a while before I can help with some impression of what I, experience with different combinations of tubes. So I hope you have the time and inclination to wait a few months before I can help with some impressions of what I would recomend others to try.
 What I listen with are a new pair of AKG K701.
 I have something like that some people called 'job' to take care of alsow...

 (If it is reasonably difficult to understand me, so I blame it on Google Translate!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have not used my English so much the last 20 years since I graduated...
   
  Now I'm going to disappear into my cinema room for the next few hours in order to plug in my little dot & just enjoy life ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Best regards to you all from me, S60R.


----------



## Acapella11

Dear S60R, congratulations to the amp and all your tubes. I can understand you got the LD MK IV SE. Retrospectively, I would have done the same, especially because the starting tube setup is very nice with M8100 and the more costly 6H30PI Gold-Pin power tubes.
  Tube compatibility is actually identical between MKIII and MKIV with the newer MKIII models (> V2.0).


----------



## S60R

I am aware off that there are the same alternative tube rolling on both Little dot's, but that is only the driver tubes that Applies on, and it has helped me a lot.
 But it is better power tubes available on the MKIV, that's what I meant in the thread.

 I realized only after I had posted my first post that I put it under the wrong title, it should have been under the MKIV SE thread ... sorry ...

 Will eventually upgrade with a Little dot DAC or it will be a used XTZ 100 D3 Class A, that is a combined amplifier and DAC.
 It has gained enormous good rating from what I can find among my hi-fi magazines & online. 'll Just explore it a little bit more before I decide which one of them it will be.

 with kind regards, S60R.


----------



## Acapella11

Cheers for posting here anyways. Your experience with different tubes may be quite well transferable to the MKIII as along as we are aware of your setup. So please keep on posting =).
  The same tube compatibility applies to both, power and driver tubes with the newer LD MKIII ( > 2.0). The main disadvantage of the older MKIII 1.0 version was that the 6H30-power tubes were not compatible. Since version V 2.0 this has changed and 6H30-power tubes can be used as well.


----------



## S60R

I did not know that the MK III' was updated on the drive side as well.
 I had not found this information when I compared the 2 Little dot's, but I believe you on your word. Thanks for the enlightenment! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have not got the time to listen to my MK IV SE until this weekend, by the way, has not been any of that so far this week either because of a lot of overtime at work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 One advantage is that I can afford to update my equipment even earlier now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've only collected 15 hours. so far on my new AKG K701 & the Dott, and I use my home theater amplifier, Yamaha RXV-3800 (BurrBrown-Dac) & a Denon DVD (1940) for now. But what a difference there is in music now compared to before, when I was without headphones & the Little dot!
 Now I hear so much more details and instruments in the background than I have ever been aware of that it existed.
 The only thing I miss now is the base, but it's probably the headphones that's hang's on, because they (from what I've read) requires a minimum of 120h. before they are ready and sound like they should.
   
  I have experimented with many different settings on my Yamaha, but I will leave that aside for now, but my little dot works best with the gain setting 10 & Use so far, the original tubes.
 It seems that there are no problems with overheating with that setting, it is only slightly warmer than the body heat.
 At gain 4 & 5 where the sound poorer and it got much warmer.

 I am a perfectionist, so it is a sure thing that it will be more dedicated upgrades soon.
  OMG. more money will flow from my wallet! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But I was warned about it at an early stage and it will totaly be worth it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a nice day / night, depending on which side of the Earth you are...


----------



## hallom

Hey Guys,
   
  Do you know if the power measurements (mA) of individual tubes, given by the sellers influence the sound in any way? More gain maybe?


----------



## Acapella11

Hallom, I found between EF95 (175 mA), EF92 (200 mA) and EF91 (300 mA) that the sound becomes louder in this chronology. This additional power may be useful to reveal the full dynamics of your headphone.


----------



## hallom

Acapella11, I mean measurements within the same type of tubes like these:
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-TESTED-PAIR-TUBES-6J1P-GOLD-GRID-EF95-6F32-6AK5-NOS-80s-PAIR-SUPER-STRONG-/310512114205?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item484bf6da1d&_uhb=1
   
  For example the Ia (no idea what's that exactly) within the same type of 6J1P seems to vary between 5-9 mA. It seems like a significant difference, does it have anything to do with sound quality?


----------



## Acapella11

Sorry, I am not sure about that. Possibly, gain is larger but SQ can vary with getter construction, year of production and other manufacturing alterations such that this is difficult to say.


----------



## zedmeco

funny, I did get the sovtek and was running them with the voskod's for the last month, sounded amazing, so much detail and depth, really get into the mix. i have today put in the mullard cv 4010 and they sound really warm straight out of the box. it is a more enveloping sound is my initial reaction, i am imagining they will open up as they run in but very i am pleased i bought them. will give them a month too and then switch to the sylvania's, my most expensive tubes at nearly £50.00 for the matched pair, the voshkod's being the cheapest at only about £20.00.
  really love my little dot amp and the combination with hd650 is really a revelation to me. z


----------



## Acapella11

Hi zedmeco, which Sovteks did you get? I also found them (6H30-EV) better than any other power tube, if only the driver tube is not too bright. Which Mullard CV4010 did you get, the one without Mullard label?
  I'd suggest you try a EF92-family tube as well (e.g. CV 4015), I found the difference (even) larger than between different power tubes towards the Sovteks. It might need a different power tube than the Sovtek for good matching.
  But most of all: Enjoy the music!


----------



## Cakensaur

At the risk of sounding like  a complete idiot (i have  LD amp arriving soon enough)
  I understand the process of tube rolling,(take out, put new tubes in, basic enough) and know which tubes id like, 
  but what do you mean by "jumper off" ?
   
  thanks


----------



## dlwilladsen

Does anyone know if (Brimar) CV4033 can be used in a Mk iii?  My limited research seems to say they are equivalent to CV4010?


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





dlwilladsen said:


> Does anyone know if (Brimar) CV4033 can be used in a Mk iii?  My limited research seems to say they are equivalent to CV4010?


 
  the cv 4033 has a 9 pin base the littledot has 7 pins.


----------



## dlwilladsen

Oops ... coulda checked that, I guess ... that's probably a NO then.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





dlwilladsen said:


> Does anyone know if (Brimar) CV4033 can be used in a Mk iii?  My limited research seems to say they are equivalent to CV4010?


 
   
  The CV4033 (Brimar F6060) is a flying-lead CV4024 (Brimar 6060), an ECC81/12AT7 equivalent. In no way is it equivalent to the CV4010.


----------



## dlwilladsen

Thanks, gentlemen. Looks like I have a pair of CV4033's for sale, then.


----------



## Waermeleitpaste

Does anyone know if I can use the Russian 6F12P (6Ф12П) tubes with the little dok mk3?


----------



## mab1376

Doesn't look like the specs are the same, definitely a different tube that the usually 6AK5's used in the LD MK3/4.
   
  Those are Triode-Pentode and the 6AK5 is a Sharp cutoff pentode.
   
  http://ds.agavaceae.ru/similar.php


----------



## mojorisin35

I want to order the little dot MK III, but before I do a couple of questions for you pros.
I am a complete newbie to tube rolling and I will be running my beyerdynamic DT1350’s with the amp and was wondering if the upgraded tubes available at order are a good choice?
Or is it better to get stock tubes and buy upgrades after.
2x 5654/5725: 20 USD
2x 6H6PI/6H6n: 35 USD
Upgrade and replace stock 5654 driver tubes with M8100/CV4010: 45 USD

after reading this thread i was considering Electro-Harmonix 6h30Pi and Mullard CV4015's.
what says you pros?

Thank you

Gary


----------



## mab1376

After a ton of rolling I've decided the Tung Sol 6AJ5 tubes are my favorite.
   
  Ive tried:
   
  Western Electric 403b
  LM Ericsson 403b
  Mullard M8100
  Mullard M8161 (EF92) (MK IV only)
  Telefunken 6AK5W
  Raytheon 6AK5
  Russian Military 6X1Π-EB
  Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV
   
  It's really all preference. I would order stock tubes since upgrades can be much cheaper on ebay and online tube stores.


----------



## mordy

Tried a number of others as well, and also came to the conclusion that Tung Sol 6AJ5 suits me the best.


----------



## glikmanalex

I think best of vacuum tubes is Mullard M8161/CV4015. Excellent sound. Voshod sharper less melodic.


----------



## mab1376

The Tung-sol 6AK5W and 6AJ5 have a nice extension on the low end which really suites my taste. Definitely not neutral if that's what you're looking for.


----------



## junkimchi

Here comes a very noob question:
   
  What are the differences between the bigger tubes in the back and smaller tubes in the front?


----------



## Acapella11

Of all the good tubes I heard, my personal preference goes to CV4015.


----------



## mab1376

Mine is definitely the Tung-Sol 6AK5W, just got a new pair from 1951 and its nice and meaty on the low end.


----------



## mac336

is there any sort of semi-consensus on some of the best tubes for this amp?    list of the top 3 or 4 maybe?


----------



## mab1376

http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide
   
  I'm partial to the ones in my sig.
   
  Other favs on here are: GE 5654/5 star, Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, and Mullard 8100.


----------



## Acapella11

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> is there any sort of semi-consensus on some of the best tubes for this amp?    list of the top 3 or 4 maybe?


 
   
  A list of top tubes must be a personal list. I agree with mab1376 for the Voskhods and the Mullards, haven't heard the GE5654/5Stars. My personal favourite two would be 1) CV4015, 2) Mullard M8100 (with logo). I would add the Tung Sol 6AJ5 as great lower gain tubes. But the best is you read about the tubes in the thread and find out which ones suit you.
  And don't forget the power tubes.


----------



## ChadHahn

I recently bought a Little Dot MKIII.  After some reading of this thread I think I have a version 1.  It has switches for tube types instead of jumpers.  What are my options for power tubes?
   
  Thanks,
   
  Chad


----------



## Acapella11

Quote: 





chadhahn said:


> I recently bought a Little Dot MKIII.  After some reading of this thread I think I have a version 1.  It has switches for tube types instead of jumpers.  What are my options for power tubes?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chad


 

 Usually, you have switches for the gain and jumpers for the adjustment to EF95/EF92/EF91 family driver tubes. The version number is written on the board, check the holes in the bottom.
   
  If you have version 1, your power tube options are 6N6P, 6N6P-I and 6N6P-IR.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





chadhahn said:


> I recently bought a Little Dot MKIII.  After some reading of this thread I think I have a version 1.  It has switches for tube types instead of jumpers.  What are my options for power tubes?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chad


 
  Just look under your mk3 in one of the peep holes upper right if you look soundways you should see it stamped on the edge of the board 1.0 or 2.0


----------



## richdytch

Hi - I have a tube question if anyone's up for it. About a year ago I bought from ebay what were advertised as [size=small]"Match Codes PAIR JAN JHS Sylvania 6AK5W Tube NOS D Getter". [/size]
   
  [size=small]When they turned up, they looked like this: [/size]
   
   

   
  Very obviously GE branded, although labelled JHS on the boxes.I thought there had been some mix up, but couldn't be bothered to question it with the seller. I thought no more about it, until recently I tried them out again, and they have fast become my favourite tube when using my dt880s. The have the nice accurate soundstage I like with EF95 tubes, but they also have great bass and add just the right amount of warmth to the dt880. 
   
  I'd like to buy some more, since I like them so much - but I'm confused - can anyone provide a positive ID? Are they GE or actually Sylvania? Are the two brands the same thing?
   
  Cheers, Rich.


----------



## ChadHahn

Thanks for the tip.  It turns out I have a version 2.0. 
   
  Chad


----------



## ChadHahn

Quote: 





acapella11 said:


> Usually, you have switches for the gain and jumpers for the adjustment to EF95/EF92/EF91 family driver tubes. The version number is written on the board, check the holes in the bottom.


 
   
  I have switches for both the gain and the tube adjustment.
   
  Chad


----------



## mordy

Hi richdytch,
   
  Crossbranding is very common with vacuum tubes. JHS definitively is Sylvania. Try to look very carefully on the print on the tubes and see if you can find three digit numbers:
  188 means GE
  312 means Sylvania
  
  (I once bought a lot of 8 Mullard M8100/CV4010. One tube was stamped M8100 over the silk screening of a 5654/6AK5W made in USA Sylvania tube!)


----------



## richdytch

Thanks very much Mordy! Very very helpful. 

Rich


----------



## mojorisin35

I just rolled my factory matched pair of Tesla 6f32 into my LD MKIII and my initial impressions are WOW! 
Without even being completely being burnt in they are something special.



The most outstanding quality thus far is the Crystal clear sparkling highs, which present themselves with great extension without any hints of sibilance. 
with these I find the Highs much more pleasant than the Tung sol 6AJ5 and the the highs of the Tesla's are way more resolved than the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV.



I find the mids are very neutral they remind me of the Tung Sol 6aj5 mids perhaps a little less warm.
However they are nowhere near the luscious mids of the mullard ef92’s so if you find the mullards to colored you might want to look into a pair of these. 

The Bass is deep accurate and clear and very close to the Bass of the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV perhaps a touch more authoritative...

The soundstage is as wide and deep as any I have heard however it has the added dimensionality of height. I had not been able to discern this before with other tubes but with these tubes there it was. 
Highly recommended! I cannot wait to see what they develop into after some burn in.



i will update as the tubes age

Gary
current tubes i own
Sylavania JAN5654
Tung Sol 6AJ5
Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV
Mullard EF92

Power 
6n6p gold grid

on the way
Mullard M8083 
Mullard M8161
Mullard M8100
CBS / HYTRON 6AK5W


----------



## MonolithNZ

Hey guys. I've been wanting to tube roll my MKIII for quite a while so today I took the jump and bought a matched pair of "Tung-Sol JTL-6AJ5/6ak5/6J1/EF95" tubes from ebay. I've had a look at my circuit board and it appears to be a Version 4. Are these tubes suitable for that version? I'm not sure where my manual got to. Where I can find out how to set the jumpers for these tubes? (I'm new to this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
   
  Thanks!!!!


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





monolithnz said:


> Hey guys. I've been wanting to tube roll my MKIII for quite a while so today I took the jump and bought a matched pair of "Tung-Sol JTL-6AJ5/6ak5/6J1/EF95" tubes from ebay. I've had a look at my circuit board and it appears to be a Version 4. Are these tubes suitable for that version? I'm not sure where my manual got to. Where I can find out how to set the jumpers for these tubes? (I'm new to this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

  personnally i have a version 2.0(written v 2.0) check where i drew a circle for your model number its probably2.0 then those tubes are fine i have a pair of 6aj5 sound good


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





monolithnz said:


> Hey guys. I've been wanting to tube roll my MKIII for quite a while so today I took the jump and bought a matched pair of "Tung-Sol JTL-6AJ5/6ak5/6J1/EF95" tubes from ebay. I've had a look at my circuit board and it appears to be a Version 4. Are these tubes suitable for that version? I'm not sure where my manual got to. Where I can find out how to set the jumpers for these tubes? (I'm new to this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
 
   
  your 6aj5 are part of the ef95 family so put jumper on ef95 5654 side which is the right side of picture . the 2 pins starting from right side put jumper on those 2 pins


----------



## MIKELAP

Here is the link to the littledot mk3 manual                            http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6037680/Little%20Dot%20MK%20III%20Reference%20Guide.pdf


----------



## mojorisin35

Just a FYI there is a definite difference in sound from the 6aj5 and the 6ak5


----------



## MonolithNZ

Thanks heaps for the help MIKELAP! That's going to be very useful information when I roll my tubes. Cheers for the heads up mojorisin35. I guess I should do some more research.


----------



## mojorisin35

No worries, not bad just different. I have a pair of tung sol 6aj5 and a pair of 6ak5 booth good tubes but a different sound signature for each which suprised me.. I have some extra tubes of all makes as I went a little crazy so pm me if there are others you want to try or trade.
Gary


----------



## maxdot

Ooouuu, my little dot mk3 started smoking furiously and then flames catched my window curtains  Had to take out fireestinguisher...
  Just kidding, but left channel is now dead and I can spell some plastic. The tubes glows but right side gets hot while left side tubes stays luke warm
  Any tips?
  Can anyone with electronic skills fix this? If not I guess I have to send it back to china...
   
  thankyou


----------



## junkimchi

Assuming you already tried swapping the tubes to make sure that its not because of dead tubes?


----------



## maxdot

Quote: 





junkimchi said:


> Assuming you already tried swapping the tubes to make sure that its not because of dead tubes?


 
  yup. guess i have to send it back, seems david is ok with free repairs eventhough i bought it 5 years ago or something. pretty awesome
  my stereo will have to do in the meanwhile


----------



## MonolithNZ

Heya. I'm 100% sure that I have a version 4. My circuit board says Jumpers off for ef95 family. I removed the jumpers (They were on @ manufacture) and installed my new tubes. They sound great. Does that make sense? I hope that I have the correct jumper settings. Thanks.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





monolithnz said:


> Heya. I'm 100% sure that I have a version 4. My circuit board says Jumpers off for ef95 family. I removed the jumpers (They were on @ manufacture) and installed my new tubes. They sound great. Does that make sense? I hope that I have the correct jumper settings. Thanks.


 
  Look on page 185(previous page) the pictures  tell the story .


----------



## MonolithNZ

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Look on page 185(previous page) the pictures  tell the story .


 

 I think its differs for different circuit board versions.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





monolithnz said:


> I think its differs for different circuit board versions.


 
  What i meant is that is there more versions of the circuit board i know only of 2 the  v1.0 and v2.0 for the mk3 you have a 4.0 board it should be written on the side of the board where i put a circle in the picture let me know im curious .Thanks


----------



## jdamico

I'm new to this forum.
  Also shared this same comments in the Little Dot forum page.
I received my little dot mk III almost three weeks ago, and now I feel can share my impressions about driver tube rolling (strictly IMHO).
I listened using a Sennheisser HD-650 and a upsampling DAC (Lars-Gigawork modified DAC).
(Using an upsampling DAC I don't recommend gain 10 for the HD-650 because this can exagerate to the un-natural the dynamics -literally sounding peaks popping inside your head-). I used gain setting to 5 and almost never go to more than 50% of total volume knob.
I tried the following tubes:

Tung Sol JAN 6AJ5
Russian Voskhod 6J1P-EV
GE JAN 5654W

The most impressive tube for me in the first listening sessions was the 6J1P-EV. Has a very strong sound. Bass and middles becomes beautifully round, robust and instrument separation is easy. In other words: In an Orchestra the Double basses, cellos and violas become so evident, diferenciated, natural and never busy that is realy amazing. The highs (violins in my analogy) are laid back, some how dark, and maybe lacking of that crisp and clear sound compared to the other two tubes, but this can be an advantage in hiding the harshness and grainy sound of bad caps, bad input equipment or bad recordings, making the listener experience more easy, exclusive "musical" and less "critical" or "analytical", if you know what I mean. This tubes remind me the oldie tubey sound with a single full-range speaker, but with stronger and thicker bass. Soundstage: this tubes creates a very seductive sensation of bigger ambience (is like adding a very small spice of reverb) and that's why this tubes sounds more like a hall than a damped recording studio. This sound signature contributes to give the overall sensation of a thicker sound and allows you to hear something more than the sum of the individual instruments.

The second place (very near to the russian tube) is for the Tung Sol JAN (made for military) 6AJ5. I love This tube because has a very clean, crisp (almost edgy) sound in the highs (violins sound clear and beautiful like being in heaven). Also has a very extended range in those highs. This tubes can be so revealing in the upper frequency side that they can make you want to upgrade your AC coupling (or DC de-coupling) caps. The Tung Sol 6Aj5 have less gain but this is not an issue at all. This tubes are so well balanced but don't have the "stamina" of the 6J1P-EV Russian tubes (we are talking about little fractions). The overall tonal balance of these tubes make them less "tubey" and less warm sounding than the russian, but are a very good tube rolling partner for the LD mk III if selected for the rigth music. Soundstage: contrary to the 6J1P-EV tubes, the Tung Sol's sounds "dry" in comparison, creating an ambience more like a recording studio plenty of damping panels. Maybe that's why you can have a more analytical listening experience paying more attention to small details than to the big picture. The sound of soloists and voices also becomes more intimate, and maybe this tubes can be very nice to hear a small group of musicians playing blues.

Finally the General Electric JAN (military) 5654W is a clear upgrade for the stock GE 5654 tube and is not a bad tube at all, but compared to the other two only remains as a winner in the upper frequency side, bringing clear and well rounded highs, and an overall well tonal balance. This tube is a bang for the bucks (I paid $10 for 4 tubes including shipment) and also can greatly improve the soundstage of the stock tubes. I strongly recomend this tubes if you want to roll-up tubes for a very little budget.


----------



## Acapella11

Hey jdamico,
 Great that you had such a detailed look at these different tubes. From which year were your Voskhods and 6AJ5s? Personally, I found that the bass quite changes with year of production for the Voskhods. I found the very special feature of the 6AJ5 the very seductive mids with this not very tubey sound signature. The GE JAN 5654W are great universal tubes in my opinion. My personal overall favourite are the CV4015 tubes (so far) because they are very detailed, neutral, have a great stage, extended treble and also go deep in  bass. They are not warm sounding kind tubes.
 Be sure to also look into http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide if you haven't done yet.
 Best


----------



## jdamico

Hi Acapella11,
  The 6AJ5 are dated May 1945, and the Voskhod are suposed to be 1983 ones.
  These are the first tubes I tried. Maybe soon will try another tubes.
  Thanks for your comments...
  Regards


----------



## maxdot

Yay, I got my headphone amp back from china repaired!
  I think they put a new "motherboard" in since there are now jumpers that need to be psysically moved in order to change the jumpers instead of a switch like I had before repair. Use the original tube family though so don't need to switch this very often  I checked, it says v.2 on the board though.
   
  ANyway, I think I need both new Voskhod/Voshkhod tubes and the 

 [size=10pt]2x EH 6H30Pi


[/size]  When I tried to put the old 30pi tubes in as powertubes sparks came off one of the tubes so I had to pull the plug. Thank god my little dot didn't break after repairs ;P So it's working fine with original tubes now.
  And the Voskhod seems unbalanced, more sound coming from one ear when I put these in.
   
  So, I need new [size=13.63636302947998px]EH 6H30Pi and new Voskhods.. Any tips on which ones I should buy these days??[/size]
   
  [size=13.63636302947998px]Thanks[/size]


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





maxdot said:


> Yay, I got my headphone amp back from china repaired!
> I think they put a new "motherboard" in since there are now jumpers that need to be psysically moved in order to change the jumpers instead of a switch like I had before repair. Use the original tube family though so don't need to switch this very often  I checked, it says v.2 on the board though.
> 
> ANyway, I think I need both new Voskhod/Voshkhod tubes and the
> ...


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide       try this thread youll get better response, personnally i am using EH6H30PI GOLD PINS


----------



## maxdot

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide       try this thread youll get better response, personnally i am using EH6H30PI GOLD PINS


 
  Alright, thanks, will check it out!


----------



## mab1376

Quote: 





maxdot said:


> Yay, I got my headphone amp back from china repaired!
> I think they put a new "motherboard" in since there are now jumpers that need to be psysically moved in order to change the jumpers instead of a switch like I had before repair. Use the original tube family though so don't need to switch this very often  I checked, it says v.2 on the board though.
> 
> ANyway, I think I need both new Voskhod/Voshkhod tubes and the
> ...


 
   
  I personally like the 6N6P-IR tubes the best compared to the 6H30Pi, they are unbranded an all sources i've found, they are very clean and transparent whereas the 6H30Pi has a little bit of warmth.
   
  Personally I like to let the driver tubes control the sound, and the power tubes should be transparent and dark.
   
  Again this is my personal opinion.


----------



## GermanGuy

just posted a very efficient way to clean tube pins in another thread, but maybe some of the tube rolling thread members are interested in my solution, so just crossposting the link here:

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/632518/analog-paper-2-discussion-and-appreciation-thread/630#post_9573905


----------



## foreign

I just purchased the little dot mk3 to pair with my hd650's. I never got a chance to audition the tube amp so I'm hoping I made the right choice. For the small price of an introductory tube amp I think I can't go wrong? I hope anyway can't wait to start listening to it and change tubes if necessary to get the sound I'm chasing. How does the little dot perform on lower ohm set of cans?


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





foreign said:


> I just purchased the little dot mk3 to pair with my hd650's. I never got a chance to audition the tube amp so I'm hoping I made the right choice. For the small price of an introductory tube amp I think I can't go wrong? I hope anyway can't wait to start listening to it and change tubes if necessary to get the sound I'm chasing. How does the little dot perform on lower ohm set of cans?


 
Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide                              this is the thread you want to go to the tube rolling guide if you want to try tubes page 77 is the page you need to have all kinds of different family of tubes and stuff to read plus very knowledgeable guys that know there tubes personnally with the mk3 i use Denons d-5000 which are 25 ohms  and 300 ohms Senns hd800 both i like with the littledot it sounds goods so hope to see you there.


----------



## derbigpr

Is it normal for MKIII to pop loudly when plugging in the headphones, or when turning it on while headphones are plugged in?  Nearly gave me a heart attack when I turned on the amp with T1's plugged in, I was sure the drivers are fried. Luckily, nothing happened, but I'm not plugging my headphones back into this heap of metal until I get a confirmation its normal.


----------



## loose

I have just bought a little dot mk3 and looking to get the mullard m8161 tubes but how many tubes do I need as the amp has 4 stock tubes?

Would I need to replace the 4 stock tubes with 4 m8161 tubes or would I just need to replace one pair?

Thanks in advance


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





loose said:


> I have just bought a little dot mk3 and looking to get the mullard m8161 tubes but how many tubes do I need as the amp has 4 stock tubes?
> 
> Would I need to replace the 4 stock tubes with 4 m8161 tubes or would I just need to replace one pair?
> 
> Thanks in advance


 
  On the mk3 the bigger tubes in the back are called POWER tubes and the smaller ones in front are called DRIVER tubes if you want to upgrade your power tubes there is not to many choices but the better ones are the 6N6P iR AND ELECTRO HARMONIX 6H30Pi EH GOLD PIN they go for about $35.00 each or SOVTEK 6H30Pi EB .But for the driver tubes there is a wide choice of tubes i will give you the link to the tube rolling guide. On page 1 of the guide you will find all the regular driver tubes in the EF95 and EF91-92 family of tubes and remember it is best to have a matched pair of power tubes but dont waist your money on matched pairs of driver tubes it is not necessary. there is also on page 77 all new kinds of tubes these are the tubes i use because they are alot cheaper than the regular tubes and sound better so before you buy your 8161 tubes that probably cost $15.00 + each check this link out .to give you an example i just bought 8 tubes including shipping for $20.00 if you have questions i will be more than happy to help you or others guys on the thread see you there Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide


----------



## loose

Thanks for that explanation mikelap.

What I don't understand from what you have explained is that if there is no need for matching pairs of Driver tubes then if I buy a new tube (just one tube) and replace one of my stock driver tubes then how would the ld amp choose which driver tube to use as they both will have different sound?

Or will it mesh the sound of both driver tubes together?

Wouldn't this mess the sound up, in other words wouldnt you need to use driver tubes in pairs to create the sound you require from the tubes?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





loose said:


> Thanks for that explanation mikelap.
> 
> What I don't understand from what you have explained is that if there is no need for matching pairs of Driver tubes then if I buy a new tube (just one tube) and replace one of my stock driver tubes then how would the ld amp choose which driver tube to use as they both will have different sound?
> 
> ...


 
  What i mean by matching is that matched pairs are measured electronicaly and they have to fall whithin a certain percentage of each other to be called a matched pair . the littedot doesnt choose which driver tubes to use the thing is that theres a left channel and a right channel 1 power tube and 1 driver tube per channel .. If you have drivers with same number (for example 6ak5 tubes) but from 2 different companys there might be suttle difference but not  night and day difference its better to buy a pair from same company but if you absolutly need 1 tube try to macht it to the one you have at least same company. Any more questions feel free .


----------



## loose

Thanks.

Can you please link me to the post which advises where to get the cheap tubes you mention as I can't find it?


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





loose said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Can you please link me to the post which advises where to get the cheap tubes you mention as I can't find it?


 
  Theres no special place to get them just go on ebay and write down the tubes number you are looking for ,also page 77 of the link above of the tube rolling guide is your bible you might say all the recent new tubes guys found recently are there. here are a few good ones 6AU6 familys and alternative names  6485, 6AH6,8425 , 6cb6 family 6BE6 6CS6 6BY6 FAMILIES again page 77 go to link above  all you need to know is there and which settings you need to put the jumpers on or there is an alternative ways of switching FAMILY OF TUBES whitout changing the jumpers in the littledot we just use a very small wire that we insert in certain holes where the tubes go .by the way which version of the mk3 do you 1.0 or 2.0 version to check unplug your amp look under top part right side heres a picture this is a version v1.0 you should see v2.0 because with v1.0 theres power tubes you cant use like the 6h30piSo you have some reading do it seems have fun .


----------



## loose

I haven't had a chance to check version, will have a go when I get home.

I am not sure if I have been changing the gain correctly as I have been reading that you dip two switches to change the gain but the amp has two holes both of which have 2 switches which makes a total of 4 switches?

Do you have to dip all 4 switches to change the gain?


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





loose said:


> I haven't had a chance to check version, will have a go when I get home.
> 
> I am not sure if I have been changing the gain correctly as I have been reading that you dip two switches to change the gain but the amp has two holes both of which have 2 switches which makes a total of 4 switches?
> 
> Do you have to dip all 4 switches to change the gain?


----------



## foreign

mikelap said:


>



Good chart thanks for the info


----------



## loose

Well I have had a look and it says little dot mark iii version 4.....can that be right?


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





loose said:


> Well I have had a look and it says little dot mark iii version 4.....can that be right?


 
  How is it written  it should be like this LITTLEDOT MK3 V2.0 in another post someone else also said they had a version 4 could it be you see this V1.0  and think its this  IV  roman numeral. Let me know


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





loose said:


> Well I have had a look and it says little dot mark iii version 4.....can that be right?


 
  yes this could be right as they are on the 4th revision (latest revision). i talked to david who confirmed (mine is v4 as well, purchased in june). their first revision used jumpers for tube rolling selection, then they switched to switches for v2, and switched back to jumpers on the v4s (not sure about v3). this all came from david so its official


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> yes this could be right as they are on the 4th revision (latest revision). i talked to david who confirmed (mine is v4 as well, purchased in june). their first revision used jumpers for tube rolling selection, then they switched to switches for v2, and switched back to jumpers on the v4s (not sure about v3). this all came from david so its official


 
  OKi did not know this because on the net theres only the manual for version 2.0 but version 4 is the same as version 2.0 so then you can use the upgraded power tubes if you want .


----------



## loose

Well I bought mine in July so not sure but it definitely says version 4 when I look.

Is it a difficult process to change the jumper settings when changing tubes?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm all new to this.


----------



## loose

By the way the 4 is written as is here and not a Roman numeral so it is written 4 instead of IV.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





loose said:


> Well I bought mine in July so not sure but it definitely says version 4 when I look.
> 
> Is it a difficult process to change the jumper settings when changing tubes?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions but I'm all new to this.


 
  Theres 2 way to do this with a pair of socket adaptors and a simple copper stranded wire 20 gauge or smaller .First jumpers need to be on EF95 SETTING just leave 5 strand on the wire and insert in pin holes 5 and 7 IN THE DRIVER TUBE POSITION ONLY left and right channel and insert tube as usual pin will make contact with wire CUT POWER TO AMP FIRST. heres a picture of the pin holes 5 and 7you need to join with the wire to be able to play the EF91-92 TUBES andheres a picture of the socket adaptors seller is    happydiy998 on ebay not shure if he has any left but email him on is site and he will probably make some for you          
   
  he is in China              http://stores.ebay.com/happydiy998
            
   
   
  [size=large]EF95 to EF91-92 Vacuum  tube adapter socket converter[/size]
    [size=large]handmade tube socket converter[/size]
  [size=large]if you choose this adapter, means you want to put your [/size][size=large]EF95[/size][size=large] tube[/size]
  [size=large] on the adapter to connect to the [/size][size=large]EF91-92 [/size][size=large]amplifier socket[/size]
  [size=large]Price is for one pc, if you need more, please email us, thanks[/size]


----------



## loose

What are the stock tubes?

I have been reading people having ge5654 tubes as stock but my amp which is version 4 has sylvania 5654?

Are they the same tubes as the ge5654?


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





loose said:


> What are the stock tubes?
> 
> I have been reading people having ge5654 tubes as stock but my amp which is version 4 has sylvania 5654?
> 
> Are they the same tubes as the ge5654?


 
  Same type with subtle differences maybe . For example i had a pair of 6AV6 westinghouse tubes i dropped one and it broke I also had a pair of RCA 6AV6 and one tube doest work anymore so right now i am using 1 RCA and 1 Westinghouse 6AV6 on my amp and it sounds great because if they are differences between the 2 tubes there minor in this case anyway


----------



## loose

I want to buy my first tubes after having the stock tubes now since I bought the ld mk iii a month ago.


Any recommendations for music and movies?


I use my amp for both my beyerdynamic dt880s and my Bose companion 20 speakers.


Can any tubes drive active speakers well or are they only suited to headphones?


----------



## foreign

loose said:


> I want to buy my first tubes after having the stock tubes now since I bought the ld mk iii a month ago.
> 
> 
> Any recommendations for music and movies?
> ...




There's the voshkod 6zh1p-ev tubes which are from the e95 family. So if you purchased them they are from the same family as the stock ld mk3. So all you have to do is replace them and don't have to bridge or perform any changes. They have clear and transparent treble, nice bass for my senns and vocals are magnificent. Big soundstage aswell. 
http://stores.ebay.com/Yen-Audio
You can purchase different tubes from here.


----------



## derbigpr

Damn, my MKIII is buzzing when tubes heat up.   When I turn it on, there are only a couple of rly silent clicks, but its quiet. After 15-20 mins though, I heard buzzing trough headphones. On both channels equally. Anyone had a similar problem?


----------



## foreign

What headphone are you using? And what dac?


----------



## loose

foreign said:


> loose said:
> 
> 
> > I want to buy my first tubes after having the stock tubes now since I bought the ld mk iii a month ago.
> ...




Cheers for that.

I thought tubes can be had for around $10, do they not seem a bit expensive at over $50 shipped?

Or is that what they go for?


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





loose said:


> Cheers for that.
> 
> I thought tubes can be had for around $10, do they not seem a bit expensive at over $40 shipped?
> 
> Or is that what they go for?


 
  Thats the thing you dont have to buy those i made  that mistake once because i didnt know better  like i just said on the other thread just bought 5 tubes for $24.50 shipped and imo they sound better and i bought others last week that cost me $2.50 each. page 77 is where its at 2/3 of my tubes comes from that page


----------



## loose

mikelap said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Mikelap thanks for your help and input it had been a great help to me.

Could you please give me the names of three tubes which you would recommend to me and suppliers that will ship cheap to the uk where I am based?

Thanks


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote:


loose said:


> Mikelap thanks for your help and input it had been a great help to me.
> 
> Could you please give me the names of three tubes which you would recommend to me and suppliers that will ship cheap to the uk where I am based?
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  here is where i buy some of my tubes      http://stores.ebay.com/E-S-R-C?_trksid=p2047675.l2563      and   http://stores.ebay.com/TheTubeRoom?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
   
  ESRCis in Florida there youll find RCA 6BY6   YOU CAN USE EF91-92 or EF95 SETTING 5 TUBES FOR $15.99 U.S.ALSO Tung SOL 6CB6A ON  EF92 SETTING they are 4 tubes for$15.99 or 5 RCA 6CB6A 5 TUBES for $15.99.IN Canada theres 6CS6 Haltron Matsu****a on EF91-92 OR EF95 setting whichever sounds better to you if you want those tubes make offer of $1.75 each you should get them thats what i paid instead of $2.49 also those i ordered but didnt listen to yet the 6DT6 OFFER $1.25 instead of $1.95 you should get them. Tubes i like alot are the 6AV6 EF91-92 SETTING but you have to cut-off 2 pins for them to work and you put electrical tape over where the pins use to be so theres no contact those tubes sound very good i got 6 pairs of those i guess you can say i like em when your ready for those tell me i have pictures how to do the mod its childplay and they sound great you can get the RCA 6AV6 at ESRC in the USA 5 tubes for $16.00 regarding shipping TUBEROOM international shipping is approximatly $10.00 and at ESRC to Canada it was $8.50 for 5 tubes but you can buy up to 10 tubes for same shipping price i think anyways you will have to email him for total and shipping cost . Hope this helped


----------



## MIKELAP

IF your interested in a pair of socket converter  ef-95 to EF 92 the guy in China has some they are $38.00 shipping included . The only thing you have to do is put the jumpers in your amp on the EF92 SETTING but the sockets on the amp and you put your EF95 tubes in the sockets so if you want to listen to EF-92 tubes you just remove sockets  no more jumpers to change heres the link    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-EF95-EF91-92-Vacuum-tube-adapter-socket-converter-/290958665979?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43be7ce8fb       By the way if you are interested  the guy only has a pair left .


----------



## superdux

hi i´m a NEWB to this.So does "Halo-Getter" mean O-Getter like in this Auction on Ebay?
   
  Sylvania 5654/6AK5 (Black plates & Round halo getters only)
   
  I´m considering buying them because they´re mentioned on page 77.
   
  http://www.ebay.de/itm/1-Matched-Pair-SYLVANIA-60S-Black-Plate-O-getter-6AK5-5654-403A-EF95-TUBES-/271163363380?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f22989034


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





superdux said:


> hi i´m a NEWB to this.So does "Halo-Getter" mean O-Getter like in this Auction on Ebay?
> 
> Sylvania 5654/6AK5 (Black plates & Round halo getters only)
> 
> ...


 
  I would say so .


----------



## i luvmusic 2

i just got mine 3 days ago.looking forward to tube rolling.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

when buying a tube for LD mkIII is it necessary to match and balance the tubes?


----------



## MIKELAP

i luvmusic 2 said:


> when buying a tube for LD mkIII is it necessary to match and balance the tubes?


 
  
 No its not necessary thats a scam to charge you more for your tubes for power tubes in back it seem its better for them to be matched but i just bought a pair of power tubes that are not matched and we will see dont think it matters if they are same company same year should be ok i think i saw you on the tube rolling guide thread lately if not heres the link and make shure to check out all the latest tubes we are using on page 77 that are alot better and cheaper than the ones on page 1 if you have question, there are very knowledgeable guys over there see you there      
http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide


----------



## i luvmusic 2

mikelap said:


> No its not necessary thats a scam to charge you more for your tubes for power tubes in back it seem its better for them to be matched but i just bought a pair of power tubes that are not matched and we will see dont think it matters if they are same company same year should be ok i think i saw you on the tube rolling guide thread lately if not heres the link and make shure to check out all the latest tubes we are using on page 77 that are alot better and cheaper than the ones on page 1 if you have question, there are very knowledgeable guys over there see you there
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide


 
  
 Thanks for the Info.....


----------



## mordy

Hi All,
  
 Must confess that I have completely changed my mind on the "6AV6 box-on-top of the  mica" tubes. After some 23 hours they really blossomed and the sound now has no harshness in the treble and the bass is very powerful. Holographic 3D sound stage with great detail. A top tier tube!
  
 Below is how these tubes sound now.
  
  
 (The pictures are absolutely real and from the Rainbow Mountains In China's Danxia Landform Geological Park)


----------



## foreign

Ok my Hytron 6ak5 tubes have now had about 12 hours of burn in there is no harshness in the treble region, bass has a nice presence and impact and these tubes are just a joy to listen to on my hd650's. the soundstage is wide and has some airiness too it. So far they have been my favourite tubes mind you I've only tried 4 different branded tubes altogether. If you get a chance to try them out let me know your impressions.


----------



## jdamico

> Originally Posted by *i luvmusic 2*
> 
> 
> 
> when buying a tube for LD mkIII is it necessary to match and balance the tubes?


 
  
  
 Not really necessary if tubes come from the same date and lot (from same factory).
 If tubes come from different production dates maybe there can be subtle differences between them.
 To match electronic components (resistors, transistors, capacitors and tubes) is a good practice to ensure minimun tolerances in case tolerance matters, but sometimes (only sometimes) "matched" is used only as a commercial word to pick some additional bucks from you.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

jdamico said:


> Not really necessary if tubes come from the same date and lot (from same factory).
> If tubes come from different production dates maybe there can be subtle differences between them.
> To match electronic components (resistors, transistors, capacitors and tubes) is a good practice to ensure minimun tolerances in case tolerance matters, but sometimes (only sometimes) "matched" is used only as a commercial word to pick some additional bucks from you.


 
  
 thanks,good to know.


----------



## Anavel0

I keep seeing a lot about Little Dot MK III driver tube rolling but not much about power tube rolling!
  
 One of my stock Russian 6H6pi tubes has developed a dark black spot on the side that worries me. I've stopped using the amp as I don't want to cause any issues. So, as I'm searching for new tubes I noticed Amperex makes a Premium Quality 7119 (same as 6H6pi) and there are several other well known manufacturers of compatible tubes. I haven't really seen any reviews on them with the MK III though. Has anyone tried any power tubes other than basic Russian 6H6pi?


----------



## MIKELAP

anavel0 said:


> I keep seeing a lot about Little Dot MK III driver tube rolling but not much about power tube rolling!
> 
> One of my stock Russian 6H6pi tubes has developed a dark black spot on the side that worries me. I've stopped using the amp as I don't want to cause any issues. So, as I'm searching for new tubes I noticed Amperex makes a Premium Quality 7119 (same as 6H6pi) and there are several other well known manufacturers of compatible tubes. I haven't really seen any reviews on them with the MK III though. Has anyone tried any power tubes other than basic Russian 6H6pi?


 
Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide - Page 191 different power tubes are reviewed there


----------



## Anavel0

mikelap said:


> Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide - Page 191 different power tubes are reviewed there



Big time thank you, Mike! That's exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## MIKELAP

anavel0 said:


> Big time thank you, Mike! That's exactly what I was looking for.


 
  
 And i forgot to add that for the latest tubes we are using these days go to the tube rolling guide thread page 77  or page 1 for the traditionnal tubes                 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide


----------



## MIKELAP

anavel0 said:


> Big time thank you, Mike! That's exactly what I was looking for.


 
  
 Also found this regarding power how to recognize new DR power tubes from original ones page 96           
http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide


----------



## manufelices

I bought this pair
http://bit.ly/1cabuJf

This is the seller answer to the question if they are a real pair of Mullard 8100:

"
Estimado manufem:

Hi
Yes these are the same tube, that number is just another military number for the valve.
Regards
Dan

- yitry


----------



## Sony Slave

bump.


----------



## foreign

Has anyone tried the mullards 8101?? Just curious as they don't sound very good treble is very harsh.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Do you mean 8100, if so great tube, great treble. Burn them in, shouldn't be making any judgements in first 48hrs. If you don't  like them after that then the quality isn't for you and you need to roll other tubes for different style but as a EF95 one of the best.


----------



## foreign

nic rhodes said:


> Do you mean 8100, if so great tube, great treble. Burn them in, shouldn't be making any judgements in first 48hrs. If you don't  like them after that then the quality isn't for you and you need to roll other tubes for different style but as a EF95 one of the best.



Yeah it is the 8100 will defiantly give them more time burning in a bit


----------



## bundy

Hi to all,I have just received my ld1+ with stock tubes 6J1 i have also ordered a matched pair of Philips 5654 E95F. my problem is i am totaly new to this tube rolling well to be honest i know nothing at all about tubes. So after ordering & paying for the tubes i noticed they are E95F not EF95 does this make a differance? Everything i have read has said that not only do the 5654 tubes suit my LD1+ i also don't need to change any jump settings from 6J1 ? please help a keen newbee...


----------



## gunnerwholelife

Hey I plan to get ld mk iii.
  
 I have 2 options.
  
 Get from here :-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Little-Dot-MK-III-Headphone-Tube-Amplifier-PreAmp-tube-AMPLIFIER-2x6H6N-NEW-/181220351053?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2a31931c4d
  
 Or get from David without the driver tubes and save some cash.
  
 Now are the stock tubes seriously crap ?
 Even the power tubes ?
  
 Let me know.
 Thanks.


----------



## MIKELAP

gunnerwholelife said:


> Hey I plan to get ld mk iii.
> 
> I have 2 options.
> 
> ...


 
 Make shure if you buy in U.S. that it is a recognize dealer by Littledot for warranty purposes. As far as power tubes the 6N6P IR is what me and several guys in the littledot tube rolling guide are using these days i paid $14.00 each from the tube store.com in Russia if you look at page 77 of the same thread youll see all the tubes weve been running in the past year or so. there better tubes than the stock tubes plus in most case alot less expensive to buy than all those 5654, 8100 Mullards and 6n6p power tubes.To check out power alternatives check page 96 of the same thread. So finally i would buy only the amp and get tubes after chances are youll get more tubes for the money you save.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/3810#post_9955715                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://tubes-store.com/index.php?cPath=30


----------



## gunnerwholelife

mikelap said:


> Make shure if you buy in U.S. that it is a recognize dealer by Littledot for warranty purposes. As far as power tubes the 6N6P IR is what me and several guys in the littledot tube rolling guide are using these days i paid $14.00 each from the tube store.com in Russia if you look at page 77 of the same thread youll see all the tubes weve been running in the past year or so. there better tubes than the stock tubes plus in most case alot less expensive to buy than all those 5654, 8100 Mullards and 6n6p power tubes.To check out power alternatives check page 96 of the same thread. So finally i would buy only the amp and get tubes after chances are youll get more tubes for the money you save.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/3810#post_9955715                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://tubes-store.com/index.php?cPath=30


 
 Hey Thanks for replying back !
  
 Do you recommend getting the ld mk iii in present times considering it was released in 2006 and there may be better amps available right now ?
 Let me know.
 Thanks.


----------



## MIKELAP

gunnerwholelife said:


> Hey Thanks for replying back !
> 
> Do you recommend getting the ld mk iii in present times considering it was released in 2006 and there may be better amps available right now ?
> Let me know.
> Thanks.


 
 I think right now price is $205.00 with tubes on EBAY +$49.00 shipping just email DAVID ZHEZHE and ask him price without tubes .When you buy it is best to buy a recent version 2.0 and up because with that version you can use power tubes(tubes in back) that you would not be able to use with a 1.0 version .Other people on ebay sell the Littledot amps just make shure you have a warranty before buying they have to be an authorized dealer like DAVID ZHEZHE is. Amps ships from China. Personnally i bough it used 2 years ago like i say just make shure you get a 2.0 version and up.you see on picture this is a V1.0 you need at least V2.0 when you look under your amp look for VERSION where circle  is


----------



## miwo76

Tube rolling noob here.  Just got the Little Dot MkIII and loving it.
  
 I believe the factory configuration is for E95 tubes.  I am looking to roll the following tubes and just checking with this group to see if anyone knows if these are part of the E95 driver family:
  
Russian military 6X1Π-EB

 6AK5W Siemens
  
 As corollary, what could happen if I use E92 tubes and forget to change the jumper settings?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## gunnerwholelife

Guys,

I want the following tubes :-
Mullard M8100 
RCA 6DT6
Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV 
Yugi 6hm5
6N6P-ir 

Can anyone sell all of these ?
I want to buy all from one place since I will save a lot on combine shipping and the best option is little dot users.
I definitely want these :-
RCA 6DT6
Yugi 6hm5
6n6p-ir

Shipped to India.
Let me know.


----------



## Noob Meister Jr

apologies if this one has already been answered but what tubes can tame sibilance on dt880 so I can use with record player that has no EQ?

  
 Secondly, what is the output impedance of this amp? I can't find specs for the headphone out output impedance, only the preamp output impedance. I have heard that it is super high. sorry for being off topic but it is a bit too tempting because so many peeps are potentially subscribed to this thread hehe.


----------



## MIKELAP

noob meister jr said:


> apologies if this one has already been answered but what tubes can tame sibilance on dt880 so I can use with record player that has no EQ?
> 
> 
> Secondly, what is the output impedance of this amp? I can't find specs for the headphone out output impedance, only the preamp output impedance. I have heard that it is super high. sorry for being off topic but it is a bit too tempting because so many peeps are potentially subscribed to this thread hehe.


 
  
 Personnally i use the Senns HD800 with the mk3 and it sounds good to me dont know output impedance of the amp dough .Your DT880 are 250 ohm if you want answers to your question regarding best tubes to use with your DT880 go to the LITTLEDOT TUBE ROLLING GUIDE  some of the guys on the thread have the DT880 they will help you see you there .


----------



## MrTechAgent

Thank you all for doing this .....all this information is really helping me out


----------



## Arcee

For me, after trying several tubes, Chinese stock tubes, RCA black plates and Mullard's, plus also some power tubes, the absolute perfect combination is the Mullard EF 95 driver tubes combined with the Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi-EV gold pin power tubes. The sound on my Sennheiser HD600's is just absolutely awesome. And I learned my lesson on burn-in: please don't give up or even judge on tubes without substantial burn-in! I have some 150 hours on the mentioned combination and only now have the impression the sound reaches the top. Soundstage is awesome, the Mullard's have fantastic mids and the kind of highs I really like hearing, and after the upgrade of the power tubes deeper bass, which before I had those, I didn't think my HD600's could do.

It also shows how great an amp the Little Dot MKIII really is, I am addicted to it!


----------



## MIKELAP

arcee said:


> For me, after trying several tubes, Chinese stock tubes, RCA black plates and Mullard's, plus also some power tubes, the absolute perfect combination is the Mullard EF 95 driver tubes combined with the Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi-EV gold pin power tubes. The sound on my Sennheiser HD600's is just absolutely awesome. And I learned my lesson on burn-in: please don't give up or even judge on tubes without substantial burn-in! I have some 150 hours on the mentioned combination and only now have the impression the sound reaches the top. Soundstage is awesome, the Mullard's have fantastic mids and the kind of highs I really like hearing, and after the upgrade of the power tubes deeper bass, which before I had those, I didn't think my HD600's could do.
> 
> It also shows how great an amp the Little Dot MKIII really is, I am addicted to it!


 
 So now i guess you up for page 77 in the LITTLEDOT TUBE ROLLING GUIDE have fun an by the way for a look at power tubes this is a good read also in the same thread enjoy.p 201 starting at post 3007


----------



## Anavel0

I know we don't get frequent post in this thread anymore, so I just wanted to mention that I just got my hands on a pair of NOS Siemens 6AK5W blue glass tubes. I've only been listening to them for a short while so no full review just yet.
  
 The short comparison to my Sylvania 5654 gold brands, they seem to have the same great mids but with a bit more clarity in the treble and a slight bit deeper bass. I'll post again after I've had a couple of days to roll.


----------



## Anavel0

After living with them for a week now I've noticed a lot better clarity in the treble. It's also sounds like the bass is a bit more extension. Soundstage is a tad bit wider. Also, I feel a bit closer to the front row, instead of several rows back. Compared to the stock GE 5654 tubes it's a marked improvement across the board.


----------



## Greystoke

anavel0 said:


> After living with them for a week now I've noticed a lot better clarity in the treble. It's also sounds like the bass is a bit more extension. Soundstage is a tad bit wider. Also, I feel a bit closer to the front row, instead of several rows back. Compared to the stock GE 5654 tubes it's a marked improvement across the board.


 
 I got a pair of these myself, definitely an improvement.  Nice clarity, especially with dialogue (I use this amp with headphones to watch Netflix).  Background music is detailed, but not overly emphasized, sounds very natural.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

With all the plug and play driver tube i've tried IMO the 6HM5 is the best sounding.


----------



## zool

I'm about to pull the trigger on some Sovtek 6H30Pi supertubes. However I listen to my mk3 for pretty long periods at a time and I think it runs pretty hot with the stock power tubes. Will it run even hotter with the 6H30Pi tubes? Anyone notice this? I have some recollection of someone here on head-fi mentioning that. I have the v2.0 board, so the amp should be compatible with the Pi tubes without any modifications.
  
 When it comes to driver tube rolling I think it varies allot on which headphone you have.. You really have to find the right sound for the characteristics of you're headphone. I really like the EF92 (M8161) mullards for my Audio-Technica ATH-ES10 and the Mullard EF95 (M8100) sounds amazing with the Fidelio X1. I also like the Voshkod (6ZH1P-EV) and the Tung-sol (6AK5) tubes with he X1. But the mullard EF95 just sounds so rich and full but still has great control over instrumental space and soundstage.. I'm really impressed and enjoying it very much. I remember really enjoying the Voshkod with Audio-technica ATH-A900 when I use to own it. That was a fun combination as well.
  
 Anyone else have some thoughts on driver tubes for Fidelio X1?


----------



## Arcee

zool said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on some Sovtek 6H30Pi supertubes. However I listen to my mk3 for pretty long periods at a time and I think it runs pretty hot with the stock power tubes. Will it run even hotter with the 6H30Pi tubes? Anyone notice this? I have some recollection of someone here on head-fi mentioning that. I have the v2.0 board, so the amp should be compatible with the Pi tubes without any modifications.


 
  
 I have used my Little Dot MKIII with the stock power tubes for quite a while before upgrading them, and indeed already noticed the amp runs pretty hot already with the stock tubes. But it didn't prevent me to upgrading them eventually. I have also upgraded to the 6H30Pi's, but not the Sovtek ones. I upgraded to the Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi-EV gold pin's instead. Either way, it's 6H30Pi's as well so regarding the temperature, it should be similar. And to be honest, my MKIII doesn't get noticably hotter with the 6H30Pi's than with the stock tubes; it is more or less the same. And I've been using the 6H30Pi's almost on a daily basis for two months now, it plays fine and it was a great upgrade, really worth it. Minor detail: I have the v4.0 board and not the v2.0 board so I cannot guarantee what it will do on your v2.0 board.


----------



## MIKELAP

zool said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on some Sovtek 6H30Pi supertubes. However I listen to my mk3 for pretty long periods at a time and I think it runs pretty hot with the stock power tubes. Will it run even hotter with the 6H30Pi tubes? Anyone notice this? I have some recollection of someone here on head-fi mentioning that. I have the v2.0 board, so the amp should be compatible with the Pi tubes without any modifications.
> 
> When it comes to driver tube rolling I think it varies allot on which headphone you have.. You really have to find the right sound for the characteristics of you're headphone. I really like the EF92 (M8161) mullards for my Audio-Technica ATH-ES10 and the Mullard EF95 (M8100) sounds amazing with the Fidelio X1. I also like the Voshkod (6ZH1P-EV) and the Tung-sol (6AK5) tubes with he X1. But the mullard EF95 just sounds so rich and full but still has great control over instrumental space and soundstage.. I'm really impressed and enjoying it very much. I remember really enjoying the Voshkod with Audio-technica ATH-A900 when I use to own it. That was a fun combination as well.
> 
> Anyone else have some thoughts on driver tubes for Fidelio X1?


 
 Ive been running the Electro Harmonix 6H30PI-EV gold pins  for a few years now and i have a v2.0 board also and everything is fine but i also tried the russian 6N6P IR power tube which is a favorite on the Littledot tube rolling thread which sounds very good at a fraction of the price about $14.00 each +  shipping   heres the link.
                                       http://tubes-store.com/index.php?cPath=30_78&page=2                                                                                            Try this link also for reviews of different power tubes post #3007  http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/3000#post_9823694


----------



## zool

I just order a pair from the Tube store. Very good price and from the review they seem very nice. I had read earlier that the Sovtek Pi tube was more detailed and transparent than the electro harmonix, but the EH being more musical and warm sounding of the two. I was a little bit on the fence weather I should get EH or Sovtek but the price difference made it easier to decide. However the IR tubes seem to be very cheap for their performance and this seemed like a no brainer. Thank you for you're advice sir!
  
 I was very close to getting the Sovteks from this dealer http://www.ebay.com/itm/270780908655?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT. Anyone bought tubes from them? I'm always a little careful getting stuff from China (Taiwan in this case). Allot of scamers using rebranding tricks etc.


----------



## zool

The M8100 is by far my favorite tube for the MK3 ATM. Can't wait for the IR power tubes to arrive .


----------



## zool

Man.. Shipping will take about 2 weeks! Me so sad :.(


----------



## MIKELAP

zool said:


> Man.. Shipping will take about 2 weeks! Me so sad :.(


 
 From my experience to Canada If you ordered from Ukraine its 2 weeks usually if you ordered from Russia its at least a month . Good luck .


----------



## zool

mikelap said:


> From my experience to Canada If you ordered from Ukraine its 2 weeks usually if you ordered from Russia its at least a month . Good luck .


 
 I'm really hoping that I'll get them next week. After reading the review from the tube rolling guide thread, I got really excited about this upgrade. I've also recently upgraded DAC and interconnects which have had some significant improvements. I'm hearing allot of "microdynamics" now that I didn't know existed before. So I think the power tube upgrade will be even better in my currant system than it would have been in the old one.


----------



## manizkrishnan

Hello, I recently bought Russian Tubes 6Zh1P-EV = 6J1P-EV ( 6Ж1П-ЕВ ) an quality equivalent of the EF95 / 6F32 and NOS RUSSIAN TUBES 6N6P-I ( 6Н6П-И ) an quality equivalent of the ECC99 / E182CC for my liitle dot MK III amp. Can i install these tubes with out changing anything? You seems to know lot about tube rolling. any help would be really appreciated.


----------



## Arcee

I almost don't dare posting this, but I just got my order in from www.tubes-store.com in Russia. Order process was smooth and delivery took 10 days. I got a bunch of their ultra cheap 6J1P (6Ж1П) tubes and four of their 6N6P-IR power tubes. I just installed them. Oh my... I have been listening for months to the what-I-considered-perfect combi of Electro Harmonix 6H30PI-EV power tubes combined with my Mullard EF95's and now, I am just stunned by this el-cheapo alternative. The detail is a huge leap forward, I feel I can pinpoint by the micrometer where all sounds come from, it's just incredible. The highs are as crisp as it gets. The only downside is that on the bass, it is less good than the EH/Mullard combination. Still good enough, but the warmer, deeper bass of the EH/Mullard combination just isn't there. But who knows what will happen after hours of burn-in; now I am listening to them fresh from the box. 

Anyways, above all, those 6J1P (6Ж1П) tubes are an absolute bargain, I am considering to order 10 more even though I don't need them, just because they are such a bargain... and thumbs up for the guys at www.tubes-store.com, especially Sergey who contacted me within hours of the order regarding the payment, helping me make the order process smoothly. Excellent service, guys!


----------



## MIKELAP

arcee said:


> I almost don't dare posting this, but I just got my order in from www.tubes-store.com in Russia. Order process was smooth and delivery took 10 days. I got a bunch of their ultra cheap 6J1P (6Ж1П) tubes and four of their 6N6P-IR power tubes. I just installed them. Oh my... I have been listening for months to the what-I-considered-perfect combi of Electro Harmonix 6H30PI-EV power tubes combined with my Mullard EF95's and now, I am just stunned by this el-cheapo alternative. The detail is a huge leap forward, I feel I can pinpoint by the micrometer where all sounds come from, it's just incredible. The highs are as crisp as it gets. The only downside is that on the bass, it is less good than the EH/Mullard combination. Still good enough, but the warmer, deeper bass of the EH/Mullard combination just isn't there. But who knows what will happen after hours of burn-in; now I am listening to them fresh from the box.
> 
> Anyways, above all, those 6J1P (6Ж1П) tubes are an absolute bargain, I am considering to order 10 more even though I don't need them, just because they are such a bargain... and thumbs up for the guys at www.tubes-store.com, especially Sergey who contacted me within hours of the order regarding the payment, helping me make the order process smoothly. Excellent service, guys!


 
 Thats great its always fun to save a few bucks once in a while.


----------



## jamca

i luvmusic 2 said:


> With all the plug and play driver tube i've tried IMO the 6HM5 is the best sounding.


 
 yes...i agree. I have also a pair of mullards and the stock tubes, and i think 6hm5 sounds the best.


----------



## FourPlay

I bought a LD MK III last week, and I am waiting to get my tracking number. The tubes that will be coming are the 5654 driver tubes, and the 6H6PI power tubes. I will be using the stock tubes with the amp for a good while.
  
 While I'm waiting, I have been looking to add some tubes. I have a matched pair of GE JAN 5654W, a matched pair of Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, a pair of Tung-Sol 6CG7, and a pair of Tung-Sol 6AK5W/5654. I found a box of four NIB RCA 5654/6AK5 with black plates, but the seller is asking $52 per box. It seems the price is high, but when you break it down, they're only $13/tube. Would this be a good deal for $52, or should I pass.
  
 This is my first journey into tube audio, any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## superdux

please check out the other Little Dot tube rolling thread!There are far more superior tubes out there to be rolled and the user experience is you don't need matched tubes thats just for the seller to make more money. I fell for it in the beginning too, but be sure to read the last pages of the tube rolling thread : there are some great 6AKW posted there.


----------



## bharat2580

fourplay said:


> I bought a LD MK III last week, and I am waiting to get my tracking number. The tubes that will be coming are the 5654 driver tubes, and the 6H6PI power tubes. I will be using the stock tubes with the amp for a good while.
> 
> While I'm waiting, I have been looking to add some tubes. I have a matched pair of GE JAN 5654W, a matched pair of Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, a pair of Tung-Sol 6CG7, and a pair of Tung-Sol 6AK5W/5654. I found a box of four NIB RCA 5654/6AK5 with black plates, but the seller is asking $52 per box. It seems the price is high, but when you break it down, they're only $13/tube. Would this be a good deal for $52, or should I pass.
> 
> This is my first journey into tube audio, any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated.





I guess the default tubes are the 6ak5 ie the 5654 and the PH6P and not the PH6P-i but i may be wrong. 

You have a good collection of drivers there let me know what you find the best. 

I have the voskhods they just got here like right now the build quality is fantastic. I hope the sound follows. 

I have the ef92 mullards and i am very dissappointed with them. The factory 6AK5 are so much better, but with a but loose low end.

Does any one have an imput on the different power tubes

The PH6P vs PH6P-i vs PH6P-ir

I got the IR ordered.


----------



## MIKELAP

bharat2580 said:


> I guess the default tubes are the 6ak5 ie the 5654 and the PH6P and not the PH6P-i but i may be wrong.
> 
> You have a good collection of drivers there let me know what you find the best.
> 
> ...


 
 6N6P-IR tubes are very good power tubes you could also try the 6GU7 tubes as power tubes they are plug n play and cheaper but my best setup so far for LDMK3 is 6SN7 as power tubes but you will need adapters and C3G loctal tubes as driver and you will need adapters also this is the best setup i tried  so far for my MK3 amp and ive used all those tubes your talking about several years ago.if you want to learn more go to this thread and start reading from the end if you want the latest on the tubes we are using .See you there.                                                                                                            http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/8415#post_11076866


----------



## i luvmusic 2

IMO the must have plug and play driver tube is the 6HM5 Yugo.


----------



## bharat2580

The Voskhods got delivered today. 

They are sweeeetttttt. Love the sound

What i dont understand is that why the EF92 Mullards sound so bad. They are rated pretty good.


Anyways. It took the Voskhods 1 month to get delivered and because of this delay i ordered 2 more pairs last night and this morning i get the tubes. So sad. !!


----------



## MIKELAP

I agree the 6HM5 is a very good tube and they are cheap and remember one thing  Voskhods take 100 + to sound there best  here's a link for the 6HM5 if your interested 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6HM5-EC900-Lot-of-four-4-tubes-EI-Yugoslavia-NOS-free-shipping-/251611916081


----------



## bharat2580

okay i have a problem. I get a slight variable noise in the right channel which goes away when i touch the amp or my laptop .. i have no clue what it is


----------



## MIKELAP

bharat2580 said:


> okay i have a problem. I get a slight variable noise in the right channel which goes away when i touch the amp or my laptop .. i have no clue what it is


 
 Probably your tube on the right side that's microphonic i have a few of those to  make shure its that put it in left channel if noise is there its your tube usually if i dont touch it i dont here anything what type tube is it if you here the noise all the time dont use it


----------



## bharat2580

mikelap said:


> Probably your tube on the right side that's microphonic i have a few of those to  make shure its that put it in left channel if noise is there its your tube usually if i dont touch it i dont here anything what type tube is it if you here the noise all the time dont use it




The thing is even after swapping the tubes the noise still is in the right channel. 

I asked david for the same on ebay but no reply. Does anyone has an mail id where i can reach him. 

But the same was not being observed with the 6N6P. Its only the IR that have the problem. 

Now i think its the ground loop issue but the connection is grounded and still the problem. So i dont get it. 

The noise is like in the video games when you go in a nuclear zone. The cat kat kat type i know its silly but thats how it is. 


Did anyone had the same problem.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Check all the screws in the amp make sure they are tight nothing is  loosed,Clean the tube pins,Try swapping the RCA input cable(left to right/right to left)


----------



## bharat2580

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Check all the screws in the amp make sure they are tight nothing is  loosed,Clean the tube pins,Try swapping the RCA input cable(left to right/right to left)




Done all. It was the tubes. The old ones 6n6p. Are dead quite. The ir had the issue. Maybe matching problem. Byt even after swapping the tubes the noise was from the right channel. That was strange

It was like ground issues due to some tube shorting or EMI maybe but i am not sure


----------



## MIKELAP

bharat2580 said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > Check all the screws in the amp make sure they are tight nothing is  loosed,Clean the tube pins,Try swapping the RCA input cable(left to right/right to left)
> ...


 
 Alot of the times its either a tube or just cleaning the pins


----------



## bharat2580

I would like to know what all power tubes are direct fit and swap. for the ld mk iii
  
 Thanks


----------



## i luvmusic 2

bharat2580 said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > Check all the screws in the amp make sure they are tight nothing is  loosed,Clean the tube pins,Try swapping the RCA input cable(left to right/right to left)
> ...


 
 So get a new one..............


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Even a bad solder and wire routing can contribute to humming.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I mentioned RCA input it could be from the source too.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

hey Mikelap,
   how did you removed the tube rings?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## MIKELAP

i luvmusic 2 said:


> hey Mikelap,
> how did you removed the tube rings?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 i ground them until i got to the screws without going right thru the ring not to damage case then bent them came right out screw on the left ring fell in amp so unscrewed the face and shook them out but be careful make shure you dont move around the wires soldered to the pot i had 3 of them come apart luckily 1 at a time so i could solder them back on what i did is unplug the little wire harness for the pot .Did same for right ring but screws did not fall in amp looks like  there resting on wires .Looks alot nicer with one less adapter to add.
    i might add that rings are available on ebay with the inside diameter big enough to clear 6SN7 o.d.                                http://www.ebay.com/itm/321137969163?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## i luvmusic 2

mikelap said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > hey Mikelap,
> ...


 
 WOW! those rings are not so cheap maybe i should saved mine.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Anyway THANKS a lot!So grinding it is.


----------



## bobbyblack

Hi guys,

i buy it LD MK3 1 month ago with upgraded tubes Mullard M8100/CV4010 and i use this with SENNHEISER HD650 .The sound is v.nice but i feel i miss some of the high frecvency range so you can tell me some of the tubes with clear highs?Thx.in advance!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

First of all you will not get a lot of highs from the HD650 The highs on this Headphone is just enough not like the DT880 or Q701,You can try 6HM5 Yogu.
  
  
 I must add that the HD650 sound thin with the MK III.


----------



## Acapella11

The presence on the MKIII is tuneable dependent on the choice of tube(s). The HD650 is a relatively dark but accurate hp, scaling with system upgrades very well. Besides driver tube rolling, I would suggest to upgrade your power tubes to either a pair of 6N6P-IR or 5687 with the respective adapters from ebay.


----------



## ToTje

bharat2580 said:


> I would like to know what all power tubes are direct fit and swap. for the ld mk iii
> 
> Thanks


 
 I was just reading the manual for other reasons, and saw this: 6N6, 6N6P, 6N6P-I, and 6H6n-N.  p6H30 is possible with circuit revision 2.0 and higher.
  
  
 To open the Little Dot (to check the revision version, but also to access the jumpers easier), do you need to unscrew the 4 screws at the front panel?


----------



## CJG888

bobbyblack said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> i buy it LD MK3 1 month ago with upgraded tubes Mullard M8100/CV4010 and i use this with SENNHEISER HD650 .The sound is v.nice but i feel i miss some of the high frecvency range so you can tell me some of the tubes with clear highs?Thx.in advance!




Try the Voskhod driver tubes. They are not expensive, either...


----------



## MIKELAP

totje said:


> bharat2580 said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to know what all power tubes are direct fit and swap. for the ld mk iii
> ...


 
 Just flip it over and look on the volume knob side of the amp in one of the peep holes with a flashlight towards the side of the amp like picture .Mine is a 2012 model and it has a revision 2.0 board   if its more recent i think its a revision 4.0


----------



## ToTje

mikelap said:


> Just flip it over and look on the volume knob side of the amp in one of the peep holes with a flashlight towards the side of the amp like picture .Mine is a 2012 model and it has a revision 2.0 board   if its more recent i think its a revision 4.0


 

 The searching took a while, but I found it: 4.0! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thx!
  
 Still, for accessing the switches if I want to try different sorts of tubes in a possible future, I think it's easier to open it up, right?


----------



## MIKELAP

totje said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Just flip it over and look on the volume knob side of the amp in one of the peep holes with a flashlight towards the side of the amp like picture .Mine is a 2012 model and it has a revision 2.0 board   if its more recent i think its a revision 4.0
> ...


 
 I dont recommend opening it up its a pain the only thing you need to get is long jumpers and its going to be a breeze to change them to try other tubes


----------



## ToTje

mikelap said:


> I dont recommend opening it up its a pain the only thing you need to get is long jumpers and its going to be a breeze to change them to try other tubes


 
 Never heard of thoese before, thx! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I just need to find out where to get those


----------



## Acapella11

bharat2580 said:


> I would like to know what all power tubes are direct fit and swap. for the ld mk iii
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 I recommend to try the 6N6P-IR or 5687 with the respective adapters from ebay! Don't bother with _any _other ones, seriously.
 The only other othe alternative would be the 6N30P-DR but the prices are sky high.


----------



## bharat2580

acapella11 said:


> I recommend to try the 6N6P-IR or 5687 with the respective adapters from ebay! Don't bother with _any_ other ones, seriously.




Yea. As of now have two IRs a pair of 6N6P-i and 6N6P. 

I might experiment with diff drivers now. I have the voskhods and mullard ef92 by now


----------



## Acapella11

bharat2580 said:


> Yea. As of now have two IRs a pair of 6N6P-i and 6N6P.
> 
> I might experiment with diff drivers now. I have the voskhods and mullard ef92 by now


 
  
 Nice one. The 5687s are actually amazing, once you can convince yourself to spend $40-50 for the pair with adapters. I have tried not many different ones, but the Tung Sols are very nice. I heard the GE 5 Star should be great as well.
  
 The next driver tubes I would suggest are Tung Sol 6485 and Ei 6HM5 tall bottle.


----------



## bharat2580

acapella11 said:


> Nice one. The 5687s are actally amazing, once you can convince yourself to spend $40 for the pair with adapters. I have tried not many different ones, but the Tung Sols are very nice. I heard the GE 5 Star should be great as well.
> 
> The next driver tubes I would suggest are Tung Sol 6485 and Ei 6HM5 tall bottle.




I guess no more power tubes. And tung sol or the sylvenias could be the next buy.


----------



## Bossel

Had my Little Mark III for two years now and every weekend I' m so pleased lisning with my Audio technica ATH-A700X. It is connecteed to my Apple TV and Fiio DAC and lerhaltig I'm not the best reference but I'm so pleased


----------



## TsukiNick

What are your thoughts on connecting the pre-outs to another headphone amplifier (Solid state) so it drives headphones like low impedance cans.  Basically making it like a hybrid.


----------



## CJG888

I prefer the idea of adding an outboard output transformer (I believe some Grado fans have done something like this).


----------



## MIKELAP

tsukinick said:


> What are your thoughts on connecting the pre-outs to another headphone amplifier (Solid state) so it drives headphones like low impedance cans.  Basically making it like a hybrid.


 
 As long as you dont use it as preamp with vintage  DC coupled amps


----------



## TsukiNick

Its the magni its dc coupled but the schiit support team said its got a DC servo so itd be fine to connect


----------



## CJG888

I have just ordered a set of the adapters from HK, and am about to buy a pair of NOS Sylvania (US-made) 5687WA for GBP 15 each.

Are they any good, or would NOS 1969 Raytheons (JAN, long black plate version) be better?

I will be using them with the Voskhod drivers (and DT250-250s).


----------



## MIKELAP

cjg888 said:


> I have just ordered a set of the adapters from HK, and am about to buy a pair of NOS Sylvania (US-made) 5687WA for GBP 15 each.
> 
> Are they any good?
> 
> I will be using them with the Voskhod drivers (and DT250-250s).


 
 Go to this thread The Littledot  tube rolling guide youll have better luck there  to get your question answered some members use these tubes if im not mistaken                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/8835#post_11193042


----------



## CJG888

The weakest point on my Mk III appears to be the volume pot, which is a cheap, scrapy affair with poor channel balance at low volumes. How easy is it to replace this (and what would be the best replacement - would an ALPS Blue fit in the case?)?

Also, has anyone successfully upgraded the input and output caps?


----------



## MIKELAP

cjg888 said:


> The weakest point on my Mk III appears to be the volume pot, which is a cheap, scrapy affair with poor channel balance at low volumes. How easy is it to replace this (and what would be the best replacement - would an ALPS Blue fit in the case?)?
> 
> Also, has anyone successfully upgraded the input and output caps?


 
 Try this link            http://www.head-fi.org/t/439449/little-dot-mk-iii-mods


----------



## Mojo777

Hello all

My mkiii arrives Saturday. This will be my first tube amp ever. While I am enjoying the first parts of this 194 page thread I figured it best to just ask.

So far I've learned:
Looks like a 200 hr break-in is recommended.
Be careful using it as a preamp
Start learning about tubes
Set the right gain for you hp

Anyone have experience using this with an X? If so, is there a tube combo that matches well? 

I'll be sending it signal from the ha-1

Thanks, looking forward to having fun with this little thing.


----------



## MIKELAP

mojo777 said:


> Hello all
> 
> My mkiii arrives Saturday. This will be my first tube amp ever. While I am enjoying the first parts of this 194 page thread I figured it best to just ask.
> 
> ...


 
 If you want answer i think it is best for you to go to the LITTLEDOT TUBE ROLLING  GUIDE  you cannot use the mk3 as preamp with a DC coupled amp for example the big 70's Pioneer are DCcoupled ,and also if you start rolling tubes you will have to change the jumpers underneath the amp and the first time you will freak out trying to get those little buggers i suggest you buy long jumpers with a pair of longnose pliers like on picture i think they are 2.5 mm wide (Ebay).  i suggest you start reading the thread from the end you will see where we are at with the latest and best tubes .See you there       http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/9015#post_11297449


----------



## Mojo777

alright i'll do that. appreciate the quick reply.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I would look into C3g's for the driver tubes and 6SN7's for the power tubes these combo is the end game for my LD MK III.This is by far way way better than any tubes i have rolled with this amp at least to my ears.They are expensive to run but in the end you will save your self bunch of $$$ by trying to roll some cheaper alternatives everything will adds up being more expensive than getting the C3g and 6SN7 with all the adapters needed.


----------



## bobbyblack

How much cost all the upgrades with C3g,6SN7 and adapters?thx


----------



## MIKELAP

bobbyblack said:


> How much cost all the upgrades with C3g,6SN7 and adapters?thx


 
 A member of this thread has or atleast had C3G'S maybe you could send him a PM ( Superdux) he is in Germany .i bought my tubes from him and most everybody on the TUBE ROLLING GUIDE THREAD also  adapters are about $55.00 for the C3G but i made my own (tutorial page 553 post # 8295 ) and for 6SN7 adapters they are around $30.00 from China for 6SN7 prices well the skies the limit from maybe $40.00 a pair to hundreds .Hope this helps .


----------



## bobbyblack

Yea thank you Mike,im sure 100% im gonna make this upgrades for my LD MK3 but not right now because i have other priorities!


----------



## shaddi

Hey guys, I wanted to test some different tubes I had to change the jumper for. However, I can't really get the right jumper out with tweezers. Is there a trick or special item to do so?


----------



## MIKELAP

shaddi said:


> Hey guys, I wanted to test some different tubes I had to change the jumper for. However, I can't really get the right jumper out with tweezers. Is there a trick or special item to do so?


 
 i used tweezers also patience is your friend Once you get the jumpers out buy some long jumpers very easy to remove after thats what i did heres a picture


----------



## jaywillin

mikelap said:


> i used tweezers also patience is your friend Once you get the jumpers out buy some long jumpers very easy to remove after thats what i did heres a picture


 
 little help please , 
 i've found the regular short jumpers, but i don't seem to be able to find these


----------



## shaddi

I wasn't able to find them either.
  
 Is it true that the 6HA5 tubes can also be used with EF95 settings? And they don't need to be matched? http://www.ebay.de/itm/6HA5-6HM5-TUBE-NOS-AND-NIB-/130329009099?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item1e5836dbcb sounds very interesting at this price, thinking about giving it a try.


----------



## jaywillin

yes, correct 6ha5's are used on the ef95 setting, as far as matching, i'm sure someone else can give you better information than me, but i know it's not required
 try this thread, tons of useful info, and is more active,  and this page i've linked has a chart of tube compatibility and settings, 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/1140


----------



## MIKELAP

shaddi said:


> I wasn't able to find them either.
> 
> Is it true that the 6HA5 tubes can also be used with EF95 settings? And they don't need to be matched? http://www.ebay.de/itm/6HA5-6HM5-TUBE-NOS-AND-NIB-/130329009099?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item1e5836dbcb sounds very interesting at this price, thinking about giving it a try.


 
 yes it is and no need to match tubes i never do .  go to this page shows you the tubes you can use on your amp i have MK3 but these tubes can be used with other LDamps as well check which ones on page 77 post #1154 in the littledot tube rolling guide thread here's the link                                
                                                               http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/1140


----------



## MIKELAP

jaywillin said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > i used tweezers also patience is your friend Once you get the jumpers out buy some long jumpers very easy to remove after thats what i did heres a picture
> ...


 
 Digikey has them heres link  dont know what size you need check your jumpers          http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/NPC02SXON-RC/S9341-ND/2618266


----------



## MIKELAP

shaddi said:


> I wasn't able to find them either.
> 
> Is it true that the 6HA5 tubes can also be used with EF95 settings? And they don't need to be matched? http://www.ebay.de/itm/6HA5-6HM5-TUBE-NOS-AND-NIB-/130329009099?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item1e5836dbcb sounds very interesting at this price, thinking about giving it a try.


 
 Digikey has them check yours for the right size                   http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/NPC02SXON-RC/S9341-ND/2618266


----------



## jaywillin

mikelap said:


> Digikey has them heres link  dont know what size you need check your jumpers          http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/NPC02SXON-RC/S9341-ND/2618266


 
 thanks , i have a mkiii, are the jumpers a different size for the mk i+ , do they differ from amp to amp ?
  
 i may try getting one off to have a look


----------



## MIKELAP

jaywillin said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Digikey has them heres link  dont know what size you need check your jumpers          http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/NPC02SXON-RC/S9341-ND/2618266
> ...


 
 i dont know if sizes are different between amps  but on MK3 i think size is 2.54m.m .


----------



## jaywillin

mikelap said:


> i dont know if sizes are different between amps  but on MK3 i think size is 2.54m.m .


 
 that's what i was thinking, thanks again


----------



## bharat2580

I happened to have both the E92 mullards and the 6n6p-i and never liked either. sticked to my voskhods and 6n6p-ir.
  
 today i put both together and this is the sound i would want from the amp i guess .
 try it out and let me know what you think
  
 cheers


----------



## RothkoRed

Hi , I'm from South Africa and my brother just bought me an MKIII during his trip to Hong Kong. He sent me some photos and I noticed that the black cube behind the tubes looks shinier than the photos on the Internet. And the text on the front panels looks a bit bigger and bolder. Should I be worried? Does this look like a counterfeit model?


----------



## rovopio

it's normal, don't worry about it.
  
 I don't know if it's fake or not though. Is there even a "fake" Little Dot? I don't think there is a "fake" little dot. They aren't exactly big enough to have "fake"


----------



## MIKELAP

rothkored said:


> Hi , I'm from South Africa and my brother just bought me an MKIII during his trip to Hong Kong. He sent me some photos and I noticed that the black cube behind the tubes looks shinier than the photos on the Internet. And the text on the front panels looks a bit bigger and bolder. Should I be worried? Does this look like a counterfeit model?


 

 The only thing suspicious is the repainted transformer cover not a very good paint job usually the finish is a wrinkle finish    like picture below .This amp is used right.when new rings are not yellowish


----------



## RothkoRed

mikelap said:


> The only thing suspicious is the repainted transformer cover not a very good paint job usually the finish is a wrinkle finish    like picture below




I agree, that's the only thing really bothering me. 

Now I don't know what to do. Do you think I should return it? My brother is there for only one more day


----------



## RothkoRed

And it was bought from a reputable store that was recommended by users in the 'Hong Kong headphone meet up' thread.


----------



## MIKELAP

rothkored said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing suspicious is the repainted transformer cover not a very good paint job usually the finish is a wrinkle finish    like picture below
> ...


 

 Is it suppose to be new


----------



## RothkoRed

Yes, they opened the box in front of him:


----------



## rovopio

rothkored said:


> And it was bought from a reputable store that was recommended by users in the 'Hong Kong headphone meet up' thread.


 
  
 That photo you posted, was the background the store where you bought them?
 That store looks familiar haha


----------



## MIKELAP

mikelap said:


> rothkored said:
> 
> 
> > mikelap said:
> ...


 

 Can you see what version the LITTLEDOT is you see that when you


rothkored said:


> Yes, they opened the box in front of him:


 

 You see the rings are yellow compared to littledot picture i posted meaning they were heated up ,and another thing you will not have a warranty unless you by directly from DAVID ZHEZHE on ebay or littledot sight .


----------



## rovopio

If you are really that worried so much, just return them. Why take the chance?
 Just choose the path that won't make you always wonder forever.
  
 If my guess is right, the headphone store your brother bought them from is a pretty good headphone store in Hong Kong. Is it this one?
 http://www.mingo-hmw.com/home/ They have tons and tons of stuffs.
  
 I don't know about warranty though, you should ask Little Dot about it on their forums or ebay i guess.


----------



## RothkoRed

rovopio said:


> That photo you posted, was the background the store where you bought them?
> That store looks familiar haha




Haha, yes, it is from Mingo which is meant to be one of the best stores in Hong Kong so I see no reason why they wouldn't sell only the best. And I also don't see why a store selling Audeze headphones(as in the background of image) would sell anything dodgy. And they were extremely professional, this wasn't some store on the street, it was on the 9th floor of the complex. 

Maybe I'm just paranoid. I've seen MKIII amps all over the Internet with little differences here and there so maybe this is the new look for the transformer. This is also the 220V version in case that makes a difference.


----------



## MIKELAP

if you look under,volume knob up , the top right side in peep hole you will see the version number and should be written littledot MK3 v. ??? like on this picture at bottom not where arrow points to  .Personnally i would think amp is refurbished or something and how much cheaper is it they sell those amp a few hundred


----------



## RothkoRed

mikelap said:


> Can you see what version the LITTLEDOT is you see that when you
> 
> 
> You see the rings are yellow compared to littledot picture i posted meaning they were heated up ,and another thing you will not have a warranty unless you by directly from DAVID ZHEZHE on ebay or littledot sight .




Sorry, I don't understand which rings you are referring to. The ring inside the tubes or the metal rings surrounding them? 

I've also accepted the fact that I won't have a warranty. It doesn't bother me. Even if I had one, it would cost too much to send the item abroad from South Africa to get repaired in case anything went wrong.


----------



## MIKELAP

rothkored said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Can you see what version the LITTLEDOT is you see that when you
> ...


 

 The metal ring surrounding the tubes


----------



## rovopio

rothkored said:


> Haha, yes, it is from Mingo which is meant to be one of the best stores in Hong Kong so I see no reason why they wouldn't sell only the best. And I also don't see why a store selling Audeze headphones(as in the background of image) would sell anything dodgy. And they were extremely professional, this wasn't some store on the street, it was on the 9th floor of the complex.
> 
> Maybe I'm just paranoid. I've seen MKIII amps all over the Internet with little differences here and there so maybe this is the new look for the transformer. This is also the 220V version in case that makes a difference.


 
  
 Honestly, that's Chi-Fi for you. Great value for money, but some things got to give. Even Hifiman has mediocre QC.
 As far as I know, Ming has a lot of Little Dot models in stock. I don't know about warranty though. Ask the Little Dot maker. They have a forum and an ebay account.
 I would be quite surprised if Mingo's Little Dot stocks aren't covered by Little Dot.
  
 I don't think it's a fake. Probably just variation of paint job. But if you're wondering, well if you are allowed to return them, you can always do that. (Or make them open another new box to compare...). I did that with one of my past purchase.


----------



## RothkoRed

mikelap said:


> if you look under,volume knob up , the top right side in peep hole you will see the version number and should be written littledot MK3 v. ??? like on this picture at bottom not where arrow points to  .Personnally i would think amp is refurbished or something and how much cheaper is it they sell those amp a few hundred




Thanks, I'll ask my brother to look when he gets up tomorrow.


----------



## RothkoRed

Thanks for all the help. I just spoke to my brother. He doesn't have time to check through the peephole at the moment but he said that in case anything isn't perfect, he will be able to send it back to his work colleagues who will be able to return it to the store. Hopefully that won't be necessary


----------



## RothkoRed

Great news! Turns out this is just the latest version of the MKIII. so I was just being paranoid. 

And I would highly recommend the Mingo store in Hong Kong in case any of you ever go past there. They are extremely professional and have the most amazing selection of headphone gear – from the photos I saw it's like walking into headphone heaven.


----------



## esteboune

Just rolled a pair of Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV and a pair of Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi EH Gold on my LD mkiii.
  
 To be honest, i was a bit sceptical about the potential improvement.
  
 well, it is definitely better than the stock one!
  
 Money for nothing (Dire Straits), Time (Pink Floyd).
  
 More clarity, increased sound stage!
  
 Thanks YEN audio 
  
 Now burning time. 
  
 Can i burnt it over night? 
 ex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9TgmvZhgJI


----------



## esteboune

Hallelujah - Jeff Buckley, Ma-gic!


----------



## MIKELAP

esteboune said:


> Just rolled a pair of Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV and a pair of Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi EH Gold on my LD mkiii.
> 
> To be honest, i was a bit sceptical about the potential improvement.
> 
> ...


 

 Speaking of spending money for nothin ,and i say this because i made that mistake once buying from Yen audio ,you can get better deals and tubes for less .For starters .check out page 77 of the littledot tube rolling guide and if you you want to get the best tubes for the Littledot start reading from the end from same thread .Littledot recommends that you dont run amp more than 8 hours at a time.To be honest i only run my amps when im there BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY. The general concensus is that those russian driver tubes take alleast 100+ hours to burnin                                                                                                            http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/9615#post_11661172


----------



## Arcee

esteboune said:


> Just rolled a pair of Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV and a pair of Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi EH Gold on my LD mkiii.
> 
> To be honest, i was a bit sceptical about the potential improvement.
> 
> ...


 

 After trying many EF95's and several 6H30's this is the exact combination I ended up with.
  
 The Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi EH Gold pins are not the most neutral ones, but I actually enjoy the colouring they give. I notice somewhat deeper, rounder bass which does good to the Sennheiser HD600 cans I use, as these are very neutral by themselves. Second best to the Electro Harmonix gold pins I found the Russian 6N6P-IR. Some even find that one better, because it is so neutral and well defined. I have those 6N6P-IR's too and I am amazed by the spot-on definition and cleanliness of the sound when using them. But, somehow I end up listening more often to the EH's.
  
 Then, as far as the EF95's are concerned. I've used the stock ones, Svetlana's, Tesla's, GE's, Russian 6J1P's, the famous Mullards and in the end the Voshkod's.
 The Voshkod's I use however are not the 6ZH1P-EV's but the 6J1P-EV's which www.tubes-store.com sells for US$ 1.50 a piece. And their sound is so good... well worth the money.
 I rate the 6J1P-EV's as my number one's, then the Mullard's.
  
 With regards to the burn-in. Especially the Voshkods require hours and hours of burn in. Why be so impatient and burn them overnight?
 They sound already great when you buy them, and gradually only sound better and better. I have over a thousand hours on them, and I believe that the sound kept changing the first months of use.
 And... I enjoyed the process.
  
 So, I would say, don't risk your hardware and waste the non-eternal life of your tubes, and enjoy every minute of them.
  
 One piece of warning. Not all MK III's support the 6H30Pi's. Make sure you have the right version (I have version 18 which is OK). Lower versions are not supporting these and can die of overheating...


----------



## MIKELAP




----------



## RothkoRed

arcee said:


> After trying many EF95's and several 6H30's this is the exact combination I ended up with.
> 
> The Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi EH Gold pins are not the most neutral ones, but I actually enjoy the colouring they give. I notice somewhat deeper, rounder bass which does good to the Sennheiser HD600 cans I use, as these are very neutral by themselves. Second best to the Electro Harmonix gold pins I found the Russian 6N6P-IR. Some even find that one better, because it is so neutral and well defined. I have those 6N6P-IR's too and I am amazed by the spot-on definition and cleanliness of the sound when using them. But, somehow I end up listening more often to the EH's.
> 
> ...




Do you have version 18 or version 1.8? I bought one within the last 2 months and it's version 4


----------



## Arcee

rothkored said:


> Do you have version 18 or version 1.8? I bought one within the last 2 months and it's version 4


 

 My apologies! Slip of the finger. Just had a peek inside my LD III and it says Version 4.0 as well.
 I bought it a year ago (February 2014) in Hong Kong, close to Shenzhen; one of the first V4.0's at that time.


----------



## RothkoRed

arcee said:


> My apologies! Slip of the finger. Just had a peek inside my LD III and it says Version 4.0 as well.
> I bought it a year ago (February 2014) in Hong Kong, close to Shenzhen; one of the first V4.0's at that time.




Thanks. You made me worry for a while


----------



## esteboune

Thanks for your comments. 
Yes I have the v4.

I have one question though. One power tube is brighter than the other one. 
Is it normal,? 

It is not warmer though. 

Happy listening to all

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Oskari

arcee said:


> The Voshkod's I use however are not the 6ZH1P-EV's but the 6J1P-EV's …


 
  


oskari said:


> The Russian designation is 6Ж1П-ЕВ.
> 
> 6Zh1P-EV and 6J1P-EV are merely transliterations of that.


 
  
 Also the proper transliteration of Восход is Voskhod (in English).


----------



## Arcee

That was what I was hoping for, glad to have it confirmed.
 A bargain to get at www.tubes-store.com these tubes at US$1.50!


----------



## AAC76C

This valve and NATO designator (NSN) was used in both the squelch and audio amps of the British Army's Larkspur range C42/C45 vehicle mounted radios - see below:
  
  





  
  
 More info at:
  
 http://royalsignalsmuseum.co.uk/WebSite/index.php/royal-signals-history/2011-10-26-23-11-03/communications-through-the-ages/10-royal-signals-history/42-station-radio-c42-and-c45


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello Folks, I'm hoping you can recommend a tube for me. While I apologise for posting here even though I own another amp, I've noticed quite a lot of postings on this thread about 6SN7 tubes so I'm wagering that one of you can point me in the right direction.
  
I have the project Ember 2 amp which uses the 12AT7, 12AU7, etc. size of tubes, but I prefer the performance of larger tubes so I have a 6SN7 and 7193 tube adapter, so probably I would prefer a 6SN7 or 7193 type of tube. Here is the sound signature I'm looking for:
 
Fairly detailed & punchy with good FR, yet I want more of a solid-state sort of sound signature. To put things into perspective I have a Sylvania 6SN7GTB yellow print, silver top tube and I really like its performance in the soundstage, frequency response & detail retrieval, but I find that, especially on lossy recordings it sounds way too rich & harmonic / 3D-ish on most all the frequencies. So I think I'm looking for a tube that would sound more like a solid-state amp or possibly a bit more 'sterile', while retaining everything else listed above. 
  
 So please tell me if you sell a tube that would fit my needs, or if not that would be great if you can refer me to one!


----------



## IYAshike

Hello everyone,
  
 l just bought a MKIII a couple of days ago, so l've been reading this thread looking for information (as usual). 
  
 Based on what l read (and since l'm looking for warm sound), l decided to buy the Mullard M8100. Problem is this is going to be my *very first tube buy* so:
  
Can anyone tell me whether these are the ones l want to buy? (are they the 'good ones' or not?). 
  
 Thanks a lot in advance!
  
 And sorry if l cut the flow of the thread, l just don't know what else to do


----------



## MIKELAP

iyashike said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> l just bought a MKIII a couple of days ago, so l've been reading this thread looking for information (as usual).
> 
> ...


 
 First of all welcome ive had an MK3 for several years and tried many different tubes with it you will be surprised at all the tubes we tried first ill give you the link to the Littledot amps tube rolling guide below                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/9900#post_12008794                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 important pages in the thread are pages 1 and page 77 to start with on these 2 pages you will have most of the tubes we tried the better and cheaper ones being on page 77 a good pair of driver tubes (front) are the yugoslavian Ei 6HM5 tall bottles come highly recommended and only about $5.00 each the Mullards are good tubes but alot more expensive personnally i would opt for the 6HM5.  here's the link                                                   http://www.ebay.com/itm/251611916081?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           On the tube rolling guide the best setup we came up with is towards the end of the thread so maybe start reading from the end if your interested you can buy or make adapters for different tubes there's a welt of information in there happy reading and tube rolling .And you have questions dont be shy


----------



## IYAshike

Thanks a lot for your help MIKELAP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 lt's not that l didn't read this or other threads... l read a lot in the past 2 weeks. First, l had to decide which amp to buy. There were soooooo many options (budget wasn't really a problem). l have looked from the very top to the very bottom. Now, since it was going to be my first tube amp, l decided to buy something 'humble' and in case l enjoy it (in case l enjoy the whole 'tube amp/rolling thing'), perhaps, make my way up. 
  
 The problem was to actually buy the tubes, to know which ones to order. l mean, l gave 3 links to tubes on ebay to David (from LD) and he chose one for me, but l could not find the logic on his choice. To me, the 3 options looked the same (other than the price and the fact that one of them had a brand: Sylvania). So l was (l am!) very confused, and l didn't know which to buy... So yeah, thanks for your suggestion!
  
 Truth is all l wanted was an amp to put on my night-table to exclusively listen to music at night, lying in bed. So l'm sure l don't need more than the MKIII (but we all know how this hobby goes!!). 
  
 These are the tubes l have bought so far. l'm sure l'm all set for a few months (or more? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). 
  

  
 Any suggestion for the power tubes? Although l remember someone mentioning in this thread those only account for (+/-) 15% of the sound...
  
 l'm looking forward to the MKIII arrival. l might still have to wait 2 weeks (if no more!). Anyway, l'm already enjoying researching tubes. l can see how tubes can give you a lot if you also become interested in the part of history they were made and what was their purpose... l think, l will surely buy some very old ones at some point, for the sake of having a 'piece of history' lighting up my room at night


----------



## MIKELAP

iyashike said:


> Thanks a lot for your help MIKELAP
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What i am using at the moment in my mk3 as power tubes  is a pair of 6SN7 with 6CG7 TO 6SN7 adapters like this                                                             http://www.ebay.com/itm/221065459067?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        and a pair of C3G as drivers with  adapters  with this setup with only adapters it is one of the best sounding setup youll get with your MK3           http://www.ebay.com/itm/391275843557?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 these are the adapters for the c3g Loctals         http://www.ebay.com/itm/201366974329?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Other good power tube is the Russian 6N6Pir tubes they are plug & play here        http://www.ebay.com/itm/161171325915?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT                                                                                                        With adapters you will have to buy socket extenders  or socket savers for the adapters to clear the tube rings if you decide to go the adapter route and beware tube rolling is addictive lol. Have fun


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## IYAshike

Again, thanks a lot for the information MIKELAP! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For now, l think l'll stick to the stock power tubes. Mainly because l still haven't even listened to the amp... And l will have to wait a couple of weeks until l get it! (tubes will arrive sooner, l believe).
  
 Then l'll have to burn in the amp (it appears it requires some +/-200 hours), get familiar with its stock sound signature, then swap tubes (burn them in, too!), familiarize with the tubes' sound... Oh my, lots of 'work' to do! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ls there any very old driver tube you'd recommend? The idea of having that 'little piece of history' running on my amp. really seduces me


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## Arcee

I fully agree with MIKELAP to recommending the 6N6P-IR power tubes, but why link to eBay where they are listed for US$48 a piece?
  
 A while ago I recommended www.tubes-store.com where they sell these new for $13,00!
 http://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=519
  
 And while ordering with them, also get the famous Voshkod driver tubes for US$ 1,50 a piece, you see them for much, much more on eBay and again, I wonder why. These sound awesome, but why pay much if you can get them for US$ 1,50?
 http://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=955
  
 I also got some pairs of these, and for some music even like them better. And I mean, for US$ 1,00 a piece, why not try a few.
 http://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=736
  
 I've ordered several of both and they are a really good combination to use with the HD-650.
 Packing is good, payment by Paypal or bank transfer, and all my shipments arrived within 10 days.
 I've ordered from Hong Kong when I lived there, and later on from Europe, in both cases, shipment took less than 10 days.
 These guys are reliable.
  
 For the HD-600 I prefer the combination of the Electro Harmonix gold pin power tubes and the Mullard EF95's, they make the HD-600 sound a bit warmer and give it a bit of a bass boost.
 The HD-650 doesn't need that, it has more bass from itself and a warmer, darker sound, hence the Voshkods sound better to me.
 Just get several combinations and decide for yourself.
  
 BTW I also got the Svetlana's and the Tesla's from tubes-store, wouldn't bother, I didn't like them.


----------



## IYAshike

l just received the amp a few hours ago. lt's burning in but, so far so good! l enjoyed what l heard 'out of the box': it's a good start!
  
 l agree, l much prefer to pay a lot less for the same tubes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh my, then l will have to order those power tubes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 So thanks a lot!!


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## MIKELAP

arcee said:


> I fully agree with MIKELAP to recommending the 6N6P-IR power tubes, but why link to eBay where they are listed for US$48 a piece?
> 
> A while ago I recommended www.tubes-store.com where they sell these new for $13,00!
> http://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=519
> ...


 
  It happens!


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## IYAshike

l've been burning in both pair of new tubes:
  

  
 l still only have like (approx.) 15 hours on each of them, so it's not supposed to be sufficient enough burn-in time... ln any case, from the beginning both tubes showed their character. So far l find:
  
 - 6HM5 obviously warmer. But l also find sound more 'congested' (less separation among instruments), perhaps smaller sound-stage, warmer/nicer mids
  
 - 6J1P: hot. Very noticeable treble presence. Clearer sound, more spacious (compared to '6HM5'), but the most distinguishable 'trait' would be the treble. A lot more extended than in the other tubes.
  
 Will the sound change with more burn in? What differences do you find between these two? 
  
 By the way, l have stock power tubes and l've been doing the comparison listening to the Beyers DT-770 (nothing A/B, but more 'impressions based on memory').
  
  
*Changing topics:* would anyone tell me how the sound is supposed to be improved with the power tubes 6H30PI? (thanks in advance)


----------



## MIKELAP

iyashike said:


> l've been burning in both pair of new tubes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Try this quite a few power tubes reviewed on page 201 post #3007


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## IYAshike

Thanks a lot for the quick and informative response MIKELAP.
  
Here the link in case someone else is interested. 
  
 IMO, the 6N6P-IR seems to be 'the way to go' (price/performance ratio)... l might get it for Christmas so that l have time to get more familiar with the sound of the MKIII with the stock power tubes


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## HamyAntti

Wow what a difference between old (600+ hours) Mullards compared to new (~25h) Mullards. 
 Still a bit crispy sound, but it's smoothening. Bass is deeper and more balanced. 
 I just love this amp.


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## richdytch

Hi folks. Apologies if this has been touched on before - I've had a look around for previous answers on the forums, but didn't see anything. 
  
 I've been rolling power tubes in my mkiii on and off. I notice a fairly profound difference in headphones between the stock tubes, 6H30-PI, and 6N6P-IR. I particularly find that the 6N6P-IR sound extremely linear and clean - almost not tubey, compared to the stock tubes, which seem slightly warmer in character. 
  
 My question relates to the fact that I now use my mkiii as a preamp. Chain is mkiiii pre -> Marantz pm7001ki as power amp -> PMC twenty.22 and an old Yamaha sub (does an amazing job for £40, believe it or not). 

 Does anyone know if the power tubes of the mkiii contribute to the sound of the unit when used as a preamp, or are they completely bypassed and is only the output of the driver tubes sent to the preamp out? I've had a look at a schematic I found on the web, which would suggest that the power tubes DO contribute to the preamp out, but I'm no expert in interpreting these things. 
  
 At the moment, I *think* I can hear the difference over my speakers, but am wary of my own confirmation bias. If the difference is there, it's certainly less apparent over speakers. Would be good to know what's going on. Cheers!
  
 Rich.


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## HamyAntti

There was a clear difference in sound when I changed power tubes in my mkIII. Old ones where over 3 years in daily use. Now sound has more air to it and isn't forced out* (don't know how to describe it bettetr).

IF you hear difference. Then there is difference.


----------



## mordy

Hi richdytch,
  
 The power tubes contribute to the entire presentation in a way of supplying the foundation for the music, especially the bass - think rhythm section in a band.
  
 When I was using the MKIII I was able to switch on and off the power tubes while playing (using an external power supply for 2.5A power tubes), and I could instantly hear the difference.
  
 The various 6N6P iterations have a more subtle difference (the IR the best for the money), but once you use 6SN7 tubes (just plug and play with an adapter) there is a marked difference; even more with 2.5A tubes.
  
 Think about the difference between a lukewarm soda pop and a cold sparkling one! The 6080 family 2.5A power tubes - think Champagne....


----------



## richdytch

HamyAntti, Mordy, thanks very much for your replies. 

 If I may be so bold, I'll take it as a yes that the power tubes DO affect the sound when using the mkiii as a preamplifier. 

 And Mordy, all this talk of 6080 2.5A power tubes is news to me - I've not stopped by this thread for a long time. Now I sense some expenditure coming on, although I'll have to find out exactly what I'm buying first. Would you say they're a match for the 6H30-DR? Not that I'd ever be particularly comfortable with forking out the sums involved for the DRs. 

 5 years or so, and I'm still loving the mkiii. It's almost a hobby in itself. I've got some nice RCA blackplates in at the moment. Really enjoying them. 
  
 Rich,


----------



## mordy

Hi richdytch,
  
 I only used the MKIII as a preamp and power tubes make a big difference.
  
 Never bought the 6H30-DR because I felt that they way too expensive and hyped up. For those who compared them to the IR tubes, the general opinion was that the improvement was only incremental and not worth the cost.
  
 That was when they cost $50-100 each - just checked now, and the prices have doubled to $400/pair. or more.
  
 The easiest way to upgrade is to get inexpensive 6SN7 tubes and buy the octal to 9pin adapters - then it is just plug-and-play.
  
 IMHO the results will surpass the so called 6H30-DR "super tubes."


----------



## i luvmusic 2

It's like sticking a F1 engine into CIVIC.............


----------



## mordy




----------



## richdytch

Thanks Mordy 
  
 I feel an early Christmas present to myself coming on!


----------



## richdytch

Well, I ordered some random cheap 6SN7 tubes on ebay, for $6 each, which turned out to be 1980 Sylvanias. Or so the sticker on one of them says. Also ordered some socket adapters, and some 6HM5 tubes from Yugoslavia, the tall bottle ones. Obviously it's early days, but at this stage I'm really enjoying the combo in my mkiii. I'd say that the most notable aspect is a certain silkiness to the mids and treble, where before there was maybe a little more grain. I tried a very nice recording of Stravinsky's Firebird suite and they handled that very very well indeed. They definitely do 'scale' well. I'd previously listened to the same recording, also using the mkiii as a preamp, but with the stock 6N6P tubes, and with the LD turned up far enough to handle the full dynamic range of the piece, I was experiencing distortion when the big bass drums kick in. No hint of that now, which is very pleasing. Overall the setup is brighter than it was with my previous combination of Mullard m8100/6N6P-IR, but the smoothness of it makes up.


----------



## mordy

Hi richdytch,
  
 Glad that you enjoy the new tubes. The 6HM5 is considered to the best of the plug and play types. Different 6SN7 tubes will sound different, but the point is that overall they sound better than the most expensive 6H30 tubes in the MKIII.
  
 If the tubes are new, you may want to give them some 50 hours of burn in to reach their full potential.
  
 Cheers,
  
 PS: When you are ready to upgrade, the next step is C3g drivers and 2.5A power tubes, but these require special adapters, power supplies and voltage regulators - a totally different ball game.
  
 And should you want to upgrade further, the next (and maybe ultimate step), is the Feliks Elise.
  
 I have the Elise, and there is no going back......


----------



## richdytch

mordy said:


> Hi richdytch,
> 
> Glad that you enjoy the new tubes. The 6HM5 is considered to the best of the plug and play types. Different 6SN7 tubes will sound different, but the point is that overall they sound better than the most expensive 6H30 tubes in the MKIII.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow - well I'm a compulsive tinkerer, so you never know  Thanks Mordy, for your advice and tips for the future!


----------



## MIKELAP

Dont know if you ever checked out the Littledot tube rolling guide if you like to  roll tubes or tinker youll love that thread i suggest starting from the end                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/10020#post_12170683


----------



## richdytch

Hi Mikelap... I've been a silent lurker on that thread for 5 years or so, but I'd not been there for over a year until recently - when I started using the mkiii as a preamp for my hifi (I generally use a solid state amp for my HE400 these days) and started getting itchy tweaking fingers. That's when I first heard talk about 6SN7s being used as power tubes in the LD. Mordy's recommendation spurred me into action. My choice of the 6HM5 was less well informed, having just seen a few people say they really liked them - since then I've realised the reputation they have for being pretty much the best plug and play driver for the mkiii. 
  
 Yesterday I was suffering from listening overdose. Everything I listened to sounded harsh and congested, so I packed it in. It's still early days for my 6SN7/6HM5 combo, but it's already sounding very nice. The first time using my LD as a preamp where it's sounded undeniably superior to the preamp built into my Marantz PM7001KI. Objective met, and I only have about 15 hours' of burn-in time. I'm going to take frequent breaks from listening and continue to let them burn in. 
  
 At the moment the nature of the improvement is a better sense of space, an unobtrusive warmth, but most of all, smoothness - definitely lower levels of distortion in the mids and treble.


----------



## Arcee

I have a question that might be a little off-topic, but since all you MKIII enthusiasts out there are following this trend, I'm posting anyways.
  
 I'm currently owner of both the Sennheiser HD600 and HD650 and love the MKIII driving them.
 My favourite combinations of tubes are either the Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi gold-pins with the Mullard EF95's, which gives a slight colouring to the sound that I really enjoy with the HD600's.
 Or otherwise, I like the Russian 6N6P-IR high-durable tubes in combination with the famous Voshkod 6J1P-EV tubes, which sounds a bit more neutral but perfectly matches the HD650's.
  
 Thing is, I've got buyers for the HD600's and HD650's and I'm negotiating on purchasing the mighty HD800 (used).
  
 My (slightly off-topic) question is: will the Little Dot MKIII be a good enough amp to drive the HD800's and if yes, what combination of tubes do you recommend?


----------



## superdux

I think Mikelap has the HD800 and Mkiii combo.Why not ask him?


----------



## MIKELAP

arcee said:


> I have a question that might be a little off-topic, but since all you MKIII enthusiasts out there are following this trend, I'm posting anyways.
> 
> I'm currently owner of both the Sennheiser HD600 and HD650 and love the MKIII driving them.
> My favourite combinations of tubes are either the Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi gold-pins with the Mullard EF95's, which gives a slight colouring to the sound that I really enjoy with the HD600's.
> ...


 
 For the price i think it is ,but my prefered setup is KENRAD VT-231 6SN7 with adapters as power tubes  and C3g's with adapters the 6sn7 warms things up a bit . That's if you like a warmer signature Senns are a neutral HP but imo doesnt lack anything it depends alot on the recording if there's not much bass in the tune for shure there wont be more withe Senns HD800.


----------



## Kenjiwing

Any tube recommendations for bd dt880 premium 600s and the massdrop akg k7xx


----------



## bharat2580

arcee said:


> I have a question that might be a little off-topic, but since all you MKIII enthusiasts out there are following this trend, I'm posting anyways.
> 
> I'm currently owner of both the Sennheiser HD600 and HD650 and love the MKIII driving them.
> My favourite combinations of tubes are either the Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi gold-pins with the Mullard EF95's, which gives a slight colouring to the sound that I really enjoy with the HD600's.
> ...


 

 You are using the same setup as i do, its the best setup for the ld with the cheaper possible option, though try the 6n6p i with the voskhods.


----------



## Arcee

bharat2580 said:


> You are using the same setup as i do, its the best setup for the ld with the cheaper possible option, though try the 6n6p i with the voskhods.


 

 Thanks @bharat2580; in the meantime I have the HD800's and sold my HD600's. The HD650's I still have, because where the HD600 didn't add over the HD800's, the HD650's do. Even though I don't listen to them to get used to the HD800's; it takes time.
  
 The HD800's are fantastic and revealing, I hear so much detail I didn't hear before. And the sound stage, indeed it is absolutely amazing.
  
 From my experience over the past week, I conclude that the nicest combinations of tubes is the 6N6P-IR's combined with the Mullard M8100's.
 The Mullards sound better with the HD800's than the Voshkods, as the Voshkods make the highs to sharp. And the 6N6P-IR's seems to give a bit more punch on the low end, even though the HD800's remain a bit light in that area. They reach deep, very deep low's, but not very powerful. Maybe it's because the LD MKIII reaches its limits?
  
 Anyways, I take your recommendation for the 6N6P-I's. Are you saying they sound better than the 6N6P-IR's? The I's are a whole lot cheaper than the IR's, so if you indeed say the 6N6P-I's sound better, I'll order some straight away!


----------



## Arcee

mikelap said:


> For the price i think it is ,but my prefered setup is KENRAD VT-231 6SN7 with adapters as power tubes  and C3g's with adapters the 6sn7 warms things up a bit . That's if you like a warmer signature Senns are a neutral HP but imo doesnt lack anything it depends alot on the recording if there's not much bass in the tune for shure there wont be more withe Senns HD800.


 

 Thanks @MIKELAP for the recommendation. I'll study where to order these tubes and the adapters!


----------



## bharat2580

arcee said:


> Thanks @bharat2580; in the meantime I have the HD800's and sold my HD600's. The HD650's I still have, because where the HD600 didn't add over the HD800's, the HD650's do. Even though I don't listen to them to get used to the HD800's; it takes time.
> 
> The HD800's are fantastic and revealing, I hear so much detail I didn't hear before. And the sound stage, indeed it is absolutely amazing.
> 
> ...


 

 No but with the 800s i can bet you will like them more. its about combinations, the i is slower and a bit loose more bottom end slower decay and longer, so it will slow the 800s a bit and give you better soundstage and layering i mean you will think .. it is.. for the 650 the two combinations you use are perfect. i guess for the 800 try 6n6p i and mallards or voskhods both should be nice.
  
 won't be good with 650 as its already slower there the ir sounds great.


----------



## Arcee

bharat2580 said:


> No but with the 800s i can bet you will like them more. its about combinations, the i is slower and a bit loose more bottom end slower decay and longer, so it will slow the 800s a bit and give you better soundstage and layering i mean you will think .. it is.. for the 650 the two combinations you use are perfect. i guess for the 800 try 6n6p i and mallards or voskhods both should be nice.
> 
> won't be good with 650 as its already slower there the ir sounds great.


 

 Thanks! I've just ordered the 6N6P-I's and can't wait for them to arrive...!


----------



## bharat2580

arcee said:


> Thanks! I've just ordered the 6N6P-I's and can't wait for them to arrive...!


 

 Great let me know if i am rite.. or not.. haha


----------



## Arcee

I will! And by the way, just tried the Svetlana tubes, 6J1P-E's, which I still had in a box. They sound very promising, too, on the HD800's. Burning in now...


----------



## Kenjiwing

Id like to replace my 4+ year old tubes does anyone have a recommendation for my BD DT 880 600ohms?


----------



## ViperGeek

kenjiwing said:


> Id like to replace my 4+ year old tubes does anyone have a recommendation for my BD DT 880 600ohms?


 
  
 Hi Kenji.
  
 You didn't mention whether you're looking for driver or power tubes, but I'm absolutely loving my Mullard M8100 driver tubes:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311292129602
  
 I have a pair of 300-ohm HD 650s, so your 600-ohm mileage may vary.
  
 - Dave


----------



## Kenjiwing

vipergeek said:


> Hi Kenji.
> 
> You didn't mention whether you're looking for driver or power tubes, but I'm absolutely loving my Mullard M8100 driver tubes:
> 
> ...


 
 Which one is which? Id like to replace all 4 tubes as I assume I can get some better sound with new ones.


----------



## ViperGeek

kenjiwing said:


> Which one is which? Id like to replace all 4 tubes as I assume I can get some better sound with new ones.


 
  
 Ah right.  Good question.
  
 The front two are the driver tubes and the back two are the power tubes.  The word on the street is that you get the most improvement for your buck by starting with rolling the driver tubes.  The Mullard M8100s are driver tubes.  I haven't rolled any power tubes yet; haven't found the need.
  
 Check out:
  
 http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=815
  
 for more information about the stock pairs of tubes (a third of the way down under "Technical Specifications").
  
 - Dave


----------



## MIKELAP

kenjiwing said:


> Id like to replace my 4+ year old tubes does anyone have a recommendation for my BD DT 880 600ohms?


 
 First you could check out the Littledot tube rolling guide http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/10065#post_12262513                                                                                 Personnally with my Senns HD800 i liked as power tubes the Russian 6N6P-IR and there cheap,about  $30.00 a pair  if you like a more neutral sounding and more expensive power tube there's always the 6H30Pi-EH gold pins by Electro Harmonix i think there around $75.00 a pair ,as drivers plug n play i like the 6HM5 tall bottle made in yugoslavia there $5.00 each and well liked in the LITTLEDOT TUBE ROLLING GUIDE thread .in that thread you could always go to page 77 to check out the different tubes we tried over the years and there's also a power tube review on page 201 post #3007 as i stated the 6HM5 was very popular, but if your interested in using adapters all new tubes types would be available to you 6SN7, C3G'S ects.,personnally this is the combo i am using now the 6SN7 as power tubes with adapters and C3G.S as drivers also with special adapters i would encourage you to read the TUBE ROLLING GUIDE thread it is very interesting and will keep you busy for awhile lol.


----------



## Kenjiwing

mikelap said:


> First you could check out the Littledot tube rolling guide http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/10065#post_12262513                                                                                 Personnally with my Senns HD800 i liked as power tubes the Russian 6N6P-IR and there cheap,about  $30.00 a pair  if you like a more neutral sounding and more expensive power tube there's always the 6H30Pi-EH gold pins by Electro Harmonix i think there around $75.00 a pair ,as drivers plug n play i like the 6HM5 tall bottle made in yugoslavia there $5.00 each and well liked in the LITTLEDOT TUBE ROLLING GUIDE thread .in that thread you could always go to page 77 to check out the different tubes we tried over the years and there's also a power tube review on page 201 post #3007 as i stated the 6HM5 was very popular, but if your interested in using adapters all new tubes types would be available to you 6SN7, C3G'S ects.,personnally this is the combo i am using now the 6SN7 as power tubes with adapters and C3G.S as drivers also with special adapters i would encourage you to read the TUBE ROLLING GUIDE thread it is very interesting and will keep you busy for awhile lol.


 
 Thanks for all this info ill give it a good read


----------



## bjj51

I just ordered these from eBay for my mk iii:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/251818022323

These are the 6n6p ir that Are highly recommended here right?


----------



## MIKELAP

It is written 6n6p


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## Arcee

I believe these are the stock 6N6P tubes the MKIII gets shipped with. The IR are different ones.

You can get the IR here:
http://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=519


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Arcee

Alright, so having used the Little Dot MKIII with three different headphones, it is time to come to my verdict.
  
 Here are my favourite combi's:
  
 For the Sennheiser HD600: Mullard EF95 driver tubes and Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold Pin power tubes.
 For the Sennheiser HD650: Voskhod 6J1P-EV driver tubes and Novosibirsk 6N6P-IR power tubes.
 For the Sennheiser HD800: Svetlana 6J1P-E driver tubes and Novosibirsk 6N6P-I power tubes.
  
 As @MIKELAP recommended me 6HM5's, a few days ago I ordered two matched NOS pairs of El Yugoslavia 6HM5 tubes for use with the HD800's. They are on their way, once I get them, burned them in and listened to them I'll post again.
  
 By the way, using the Svetlana's was a surprise for the HD800. Even though I didn't like the Svetlana's at all with the HD600/650's, they were a VERY pleasant surprise on the HD800's. Deeper bass, wider soundstage, amazing. If you have the HD800 you might want to try these!
  
 And @bharat2580 recommended me the 6N6P-I's for the HD800 instead of the IR's. The difference is really a nuance, but it is noticeable and he's right, they are slower and thus more 'easy going' especially on the low end. But I only recently got them and they only have some 60 hours of burn-in, maybe it'll still change. I need more time to come to a conclusion.


----------



## bharat2580

arcee said:


> Alright, so having used the Little Dot MKIII with three different headphones, it is time to come to my verdict.
> 
> Here are my favourite combi's:
> 
> ...


 

 Glad you liked the combo, i agree to your findings, mine were the same.
 Give the 'I' some time, it will settle in and be an great parring with the 800s.
  
 keep us posted.


----------



## Arcee

Yesterday morning I received the 6HM5's and they have been burning in overnight together with the 6N6P-I's. This morning I started listening to my collection of music at 8:00. It is now 12:30 and I am still listening. This combination of tubes does to my HD800's what no other tubes have ever done. It sounds so so good. Thank you fellow head-fi'ers for making me discover this combination.

The combination is so good that even music I liked more on my HD650's now sound so good on the HD800's that I am for no kind of music feeling a need to go back to the HD650. I believe I have reached what I now consider perfection.

Sound signature is just amazing. But more importantly, this combination gives an indescribable 3D sound stage. I have never heard music like this. Moments of chicken skin, surprise, and pure amazement.

Thanks again especially @MIKELAP and @bharat2580 for your recommendations. Man, this sounds good...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Arcee

I just have a question regarding the 6HM5's. When I turn on my Little Dot then one of them lights up so bright it scares me. It lasts for a second or two and then it fades to normal. It's only one of the two that does this. 

The tube sounds perfect, just as good as the other one. Should I worry?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## tjw321

Don't worry about the initial flash. It's normal. It's a fast pre-heat mechanism IIRC.


----------



## MIKELAP

arcee said:


> I just have a question regarding the 6HM5's. When I turn on my Little Dot then one of them lights up so bright it scares me. It lasts for a second or two and then it fades to normal. It's only one of the two that does this.
> 
> The tube sounds perfect, just as good as the other one. Should I worry?
> 
> ...


 
 No,i also have some like that if they sound good no problem


----------



## mordy

Hi Arcee,
  
 If you want better sound than what you have, buy any inexpensive pair of 6SN7 tubes and a set of adapters for the Little Dot. These are plug and play - no external power supply needed.


----------



## MIKELAP

mordy said:


> Hi Arcee,
> 
> If you want better sound than what you have, buy any inexpensive pair of 6SN7 tubes and a set of adapters for the Little Dot. These are plug and play - no external power supply needed.


 
 Here's a link to those adapters  those are the ones i have ,they are  used as power tubes in the Littledot  , 6sn7 tube goes in adapter 6cg7 9 pin in Littlledot                                                                                                              
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-hand-made-convert-tube-socket-6CG7-to-6SN7-/221065459067?hash=item337887357bmtlz25pmFXGm4WgAPkruHpQ


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## Arcee

Hi @mikelap thanks so much for the tip! I was afraid when you mentioned earlier to make adapters myself, but now you provide me the link on eBay I'll get some. The seller is on holiday due Chinese New Year, so I'll be patient a bit. With regards to the 6SN7 tubes, there is so many! Any recommendations? My favorite store has quite a few:

http://tubes-store.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=6SN7


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MIKELAP

arcee said:


> Hi @mikelap thanks so much for the tip! I was afraid when you mentioned earlier to make adapters myself, but now you provide me the link on eBay I'll get some. The seller is on holiday due Chinese New Year, so I'll be patient a bit. With regards to the 6SN7 tubes, there is so many! Any recommendations? My favorite store has quite a few:
> 
> http://tubes-store.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=6SN7
> 
> ...


 
 Try these threads all you need to know is there             http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread                         http://www.head-fi.org/t/209782/the-6sn7-identification-guide


----------



## Arcee

That's the problem, there's too much on those threads. I've spent months trying to find the perfect combination of the EF95 and 6N6P's to realize that you recommended the best one (6HM5) in the beginning. Don't you also have a recommendation for a 6SN7 to mix with the LDMKIII, the HD800 and the 6HM5?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MIKELAP

arcee said:


> That's the problem, there's too much on those threads. I've spent months trying to find the perfect combination of the EF95 and 6N6P's to realize that you recommended the best one (6HM5) in the beginning. Don't you also have a recommendation for a 6SN7 to mix with the LDMKIII, the HD800 and the 6HM5?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
 These are the 6sn7 i have let say they are the more popular oneS  there's the RCA 6SN7GT grayglass,SYLVANIA 6SN7 WGT,brown base,Tung Sol Mouse ears, KENRAD VT231 black glass imo the KEN RAD'S are the ones with the most bass the others less but again YMMV


----------



## i luvmusic 2

For the past few months i have been using my MK III as a pre amp for my Vintage receivers/speakers.For those of you using your HP amp with your receiver/amplifier do you guys notice a difference in sound if you swapped the power tubes?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## richdytch

Hi I luvmusic, I was in a similar position a while ago. In my case I thought I could hear a difference but it was very slight and I wasn't sure if I was imagining it. Mordy confirmed for me that the power tubes do make a difference. Since then I've obtained a much more capable power amp and can now clearly hear the differences from changing power tubes in the LD. I've also found that making changes to the gain settings has a very dramatic effect on the timbre of the amp when in preamp mode. At least in my setup it does. 
  
 @Mordy, following on from your comments, I've taken the plunge on a Feliks Elise. No doubt within some months I'll be searching for your recommendation on the best plug and play tube upgrades for it


----------



## mordy

Hi richdytch,
  
 Congrats on getting the Elise! You will be very happy with it.
  
 Although it sounds very good with stock tubes, there is plenty of room for upgrades, At this time I am running it with quad 6BL7 tubes as power tubes and EL3N/C3g as drivers. The sound is simply amazing.
  
 Take a look at the Feliks thread for suggestions on tubes and tube combinations if you didn't do it yet:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/8295


----------



## richdytch

Thanks Mordy - I'm really looking forward to it. As the rest of my system has improved I've come to realise that while the LD mkiii, while doing an astonishing job for the money particularly with upgraded tubes, has its limitations. I also want the ability to roll tubes, so the Elise seemed like the natural next step. 
  
 I'll definitely check out the Elise thread, thanks. I just want to go into stasis for the next 6 weeks until it arrives


----------



## i luvmusic 2

richdytch said:


> Hi I luvmusic, I was in a similar position a while ago. In my case I thought I could hear a difference but it was very slight and I wasn't sure if I was imagining it. Mordy confirmed for me that the power tubes do make a difference. Since then I've obtained a much more capable power amp and can now clearly hear the differences from changing power tubes in the LD. I've also found that making changes to the gain settings has a very dramatic effect on the timbre of the amp when in preamp mode. At least in my setup it does.
> 
> @Mordy, following on from your comments, I've taken the plunge on a Feliks Elise. No doubt within some months I'll be searching for your recommendation on the best plug and play tube upgrades for it


 
 THANKS!


----------



## justhavingfun

I bought my LD MK III few years ago through fellow headfier. It included bunch of tubes along with the amp. Since I have several other headphone amps, I haven't had a chance to listen to LD Mk III until recently. Now that I am finally semi-settled into my current home, I placed the amp through my regular rotation duty. I tried to read through this thread trying to find the answer for my question but didn't find the right answer. My question is what happens to the amp if you installed wrong type of driver tubes. I have few driver tubes with very faint markings and can't read them. Does the wrong type of driver tube damage the amp? Or does it sounds distorted? Or no sound at all? Before I start to roll the tubes, I wanted to avoid possible damage to the amp. Thanks.


----------



## mordy

Hi j,
  
 In general, you should not put in driver tubes that draw more than 0.4A - could lead to overheating the transformer. Since you don't know what you have with the markings worn off, it is a little bit of a problem.
  
 That said, I can't recall 7pin tubes that draw more than 0.4A, but it is possible that there are. Then you may have a tube with 7 pins, but a different pin-out. As I recall, nothing happens if you put in a tube with the wrong pin-out - no sound.
  
 You may want to email David Zhe Zhe directly at Little Dot for answers.
  
 You could always try something with your finger ready for the on/off switch......The LD MKIII is built like a tank. I subjected it to a lot of tube rolling and non-standard tubes with external heating, and never had a problem with the amp.


----------



## MIKELAP

justhavingfun said:


> I bought my LD MK III few years ago through fellow headfier. It included bunch of tubes along with the amp. Since I have several other headphone amps, I haven't had a chance to listen to LD Mk III until recently. Now that I am finally semi-settled into my current home, I placed the amp through my regular rotation duty. I tried to read through this thread trying to find the answer for my question but didn't find the right answer. My question is what happens to the amp if you installed wrong type of driver tubes. I have few driver tubes with very faint markings and can't read them. Does the wrong type of driver tube damage the amp? Or does it sounds distorted? Or no sound at all? Before I start to roll the tubes, I wanted to avoid possible damage to the amp. Thanks.


 

 Maybe a few detailed pictures of the tubes would help ?


----------



## justhavingfun

I know all the driver tubes that I have suppose to work for LD MK III according to the previous owner. But since the markings are very faint or impossible to read, I wasn't sure which family of tube they belong to.  I am not trying to place any random similar looking tubes to see if it works or not. It sounds like it will just not produce any sounds if it is wrong kind of tubes, like EF95 vs EF92 while not changing the pin set properly. Thanks for the info guys.


----------



## mordy

Hi J,
  
 When I mentioned pin-out I did not mean an EF95 or EF92 setting. Each of the 7 tube pins has a function, and the MKIII is wired for these tube families. It is possible that a tube has 7 pins, but the wiring is different. For example, the two leads that heat the filament may not be the same as the EF95/92 families.
  
 In these cases you will need an adapter that internally routes the pins to the proper leads. However, these situations occur much more commonly with 8 or 9 pin tubes.
  
 Many times you can identify a tube by how it looks internally and how the print on the tube looks like. If you have one with good markings, and another one with poor markings, usually you can match them up


----------



## justhavingfun

mordy said:


> Hi J,
> 
> When I mentioned pin-out I did not mean an EF95 or EF92 setting. Each of the 7 tube pins has a function, and the MKIII is wired for these tube families. It is possible that a tube has 7 pins, but the wiring is different. For example, the two leads that heat the filament may not be the same as the EF95/92 families.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi mordy,
  
 Thanks for the valuable info. I am noob when it comes to tube rolling for sure. Next time I want to change the driver tube, I will post the picture to be sure. Appreciate the help.


----------



## kornel221

Hi , i have a question about the pin setting on the little dot mk 3.

I just bought new tubes M8161 and i checked on the back of the unit i have only 2 pins which are bridged , should i remove the plastic peace whic covers the pins or leve it on?

Also when I tryied them the sound is weak like there is not enough volume and making hiss , is it because they need burn in or is it the pin setting?

Thanks.


----------



## MIKELAP

kornel221 said:


> Hi , i have a question about the pin setting on the little dot mk 3.
> 
> I just bought new tubes M8161 and i checked on the back of the unit i have only 2 pins which are bridged , should i remove the plastic peace whic covers the pins or leve it on?
> 
> ...


 

 m8161 tube is a EF92 type tube you will need to insert jumpers in proper position in left and right channel so in my MK3 in the picture ef92 setting is on left side you see the 3 pins you will insert your jumper in the first 2 pins to the left and repeat procedure for other channel .I suggest you get yourself long jumpers makes it way easier to change the settings as your less likely to drop them in the amp


----------



## kornel221

Thanks a lot for your answer but my version have only two pins instead of three , and the jumpers are inserted already , thats what confuses me .


----------



## MIKELAP

kornel221 said:


> Thanks a lot for your answer but my version have only two pins instead of three , and the jumpers are inserted already , thats what confuses me .


 
 Does your amp board and jumpers look like this .I see EF92 ON so i assume when jumpers are on you can use the EF92 types and when jumpers are off you can use the EF95 type tubes have you tried ef95 tubes and removed the jumpers see what happens if settings are not ok if you dont leave on long it wont damage anything also is the hiss in the left or right channel ? maybe its a bad tube ?  Forgot to mention maybe your tube pins need cleaning


----------



## kornel221

mikelap said:


> Does your amp board and jumpers look like this .I see EF92 ON so i assume when jumpers are on you can use the EF92 types and when jumpers are off you can use the EF95 type tubes have you tried ef95 tubes and removed the jumpers see what happens if settings are not ok if you dont leave on long it wont damage anything also is the hiss in the left or right channel ? maybe its a bad tube ?  Forgot to mention maybe your tube pins need cleaning




Thanks again for your help , this is how the board looks like at the moment 

I tryied the gain at 3 and 10 using HD 580s and at 3 the sound is clean but very low volume at gain 10 the volume becomes bit better but i have to go at 90-100% which is not normal and then the sound is distorded and unlistenable.

Also I notice that the new m8161 dont fit properly in the socket i can move them al arround they dont sit still like the power tubes.



I bought the amp on ebay used , and it came with the original driver tubes and a pair of russian vodkosh which both work just fine, also it came with the pins on and it was working just fine with the other tubes.

It is my first experience with tube amp and I am so confused .

I tryied to remove the jumpers before using the m8161 tubes and it was a very difficult task and even more to put them back on , in both cases the sound is not good there is something wrong.

Also this tubes take long to worm up , when I turn on the unit there is no sound for a while 2 min then if i turn the volume all way up i can hear very low volume then after another 5 min it becomes little more loud but can only hear right channel and after another 2 min or so i can hear both channels working.

And another thing is that now even if i switch it off take the power cord out to discharge the unit , plug it back without turning on , if i set the volume all way up i can hear music playing only left channel without the amp being on.

Thebtube pins are dfinitely more dirty than the other tubes 

Could this be the problem? How should i clean them?

Many thanks.


----------



## MIKELAP

kornel221 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Does your amp board and jumpers look like this .I see EF92 ON so i assume when jumpers are on you can use the EF92 types and when jumpers are off you can use the EF95 type tubes have you tried ef95 tubes and removed the jumpers see what happens if settings are not ok if you dont leave on long it wont damage anything also is the hiss in the left or right channel ? maybe its a bad tube ?  Forgot to mention maybe your tube pins need cleaning
> ...


 
 Do yourself a favour and get long jumpers and the cold sweats will be over lol thats what i did .After with longnose pliers it was a breeze .Probably your tube or tubes  have had it ,you shouldnt have to wait long you ear sound usually within 30 sec and looks like your sockets are very loose i think the guy did alot of tube rolling  if the Voshkod work fine they are EF95 type by the way ,so do you remove the jumpers when listening to them ?.Bottom line if other tubes work fine imo the 8161 are to blame .


----------



## kornel221

I dont remove the jumpers when using the voshkod as the previous owner told me to not to but yes the manual says that they are supposed to be removed.

I will try to clean the pins.

The other tubes are not lose only this ones , will check on ebay see if i can find the long jumpers , thanks.


----------



## MIKELAP

If ever you want to replace those 8161 one of the best driver tubes we came up with the 


kornel221 said:


> I dont remove the jumpers when using the voshkod as the previous owner told me to not to but yes the manual says that they are supposed to be removed.
> 
> I will try to clean the pins.
> 
> The other tubes are not lose only this ones , will check on ebay see if i can find the long jumpers , thanks.


 
 One thing is for sure you cannot use the EF95 and EF 92 type tubes with the jumpers in the same position .one of the best driver tubes we found on the LITTLEDOT TUBE ROLLING GUIDE thread (this should be your next stop by the way ) is the 6HM5 Ei tall bottle its around $5.00 each very good tube and its cheap ill give you the link on Ebay and the LD thread              http://www.ebay.com/itm/6HM5-EC900-EI-Yugoslavia-NOS-matched-pair-Little-Dot-Amp-/251765500700?hash=item3a9e64ab1c                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/10185


----------



## superdux

I would just say stick with the EF95 type tubes and have no hassle changing jumpers. At least thats what i did.


----------



## MIKELAP

i just saw your earlier post ok to clean pins the fastest and cheapest way is to use a fine grit sandpaper that will remove the crap on the pins .also when i turn off amp its takes atleast 30 seconds to discharge thats why you still ear music thats normal .Anything else let me know


----------



## MIKELAP

superdux said:


> I would just say stick with the EF95 type tubes and have no hassle changing jumpers. At least thats what i did.


 
 Hey whats up,.im telling you once you get your hands on the long jumpers the nightmares are over before i use to refrain from using one or the other types because it was a real hassle lol.now its a breeze .Take it easy .


----------



## MIKELAP

Here's a link for the jumpers its cheap but comes in big quantity             http://www.ebay.com/itm/370412394037?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## kornel221

Thanks a lot for your help I will clean the pins, order the jumpers and report if anything changes.


----------



## frogmeat69

mikelap said:


> Here's a link for the jumpers its cheap but comes in big quantity             http://www.ebay.com/itm/370412394037?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 

 Thanks for the link, been wanting those!!!


----------



## kornel221

Hi again, i will have new jumpers delivered tomorrow , could someone post a picture of the original jumpers that came with mk3? I bought it used and i am not sure if it came with or without jumpers on.

Edit: 

I just got an answer from the seller it turns out that he sold it without the jumpers.

I have been running m8161 without jumpers I guess thats where the bad sound comes from.

Is it possible that the tubes got demmaged because of that?


----------



## MIKELAP

kornel221 said:


> Hi again, i will have new jumpers delivered tomorrow , could someone post a picture of the original jumpers that came with mk3? I bought it used and i am not sure if it came with or without jumpers on.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


 
 Like i showed you on the picture with the board it says EF92 ON and EF95 OFF i guess it says it all. If the tubes got damage youll know soon enough as they will stop working


----------



## mordy

Hi k,
  
 The jumpers are standard 2.54 mm jumpers that are used among other things on the old style hard drives in the back of them - should be very easy to find. You may even have them lying around.
  
 The longer ones you will have to order from eBay etc.
  
 I personally found it difficult to change the jumpers - as Mikelap says, the longer ones are much easier. In case you drop a jumper inside, you should be able to shake it out through the bottom oval holes.
  
 To change the short ones you need a thin needle nose pliers or tweezers and a flashlight or similar to see what you are doing. As I remember, when the EF95 jumpers are in the right place, you can see the number EF95, and vice versa for the EF92.
  
 Ultimately, as Superdux says, you may end up with the EF95 setting and leave it there. The best conventional driver tubes are the Ei 6HM5 tubes from Yugoslavia.


----------



## kornel221

Hi , just wanted to thank you again for all the help , I recieved the jumpers today installed them and the tubes work perfectly i really like the sound of mullards now i am wondering if i should replace the power tubes , any recommendations?


----------



## MIKELAP

kornel221 said:


> Hi , just wanted to thank you again for all the help , I recieved the jumpers today installed them and the tubes work perfectly i really like the sound of mullards now i am wondering if i should replace the power tubes , any recommendations?


 
 Go to the LITTEDOT TUBE ROLLING GUIDE lots of stuff to read about over there i already gave you the link a few post back if you want to learn about the better power tubes go to page 201# 3007 but we started using 6SN7 as power tubes with adapters they sound really good probably the best sounding so far for the price..              http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-6CG7-6FQ7-tube-converter-adapter-/201115946751?hash=item2ed371ceff:g:J2oAAOSwQjNW-kSg


----------



## kornel221

mikelap said:


> Go to the LITTEDOT TUBE ROLLING GUIDE lots of stuff to read about over there i already gave you the link a few post back if you want to learn about the better power tubes go to page 201# 3007 but we started using 6SN7 as power tubes with adapters they sound really good probably the best sounding so far for the price..              http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-6CG7-6FQ7-tube-converter-adapter-/201115946751?hash=item2ed371ceff:g:J2oAAOSwQjNW-kSg




Thank you so much I have been reading the forum for few good hours and was about to order electro harmonix 6H30Pi EH power tubes but then I decided to check my pcb version and unfortunatelly it is a v1.0 , from what i read i would have to do a resistor mod to be able to use them but couldnt find any more info on how to do it .

I think i found the resistors I would need (2W 150ohm):
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/metal-film-2w-150-ohm-resistor-d150r

I would appreciate any help with this regard as I never have done anything similar.


----------



## superdux

There's a MKIII modifieng thread somewhere here. Maybe they can help you?


----------



## CJG888

Just tried Sylvania 5687s (in Beidou adapters). Drivers are the Voskhods, cans HD600s. What an improvement! Much more detail and clarity, much tighter bass.


----------



## frogmeat69

mikelap said:


> Go to the LITTEDOT TUBE ROLLING GUIDE lots of stuff to read about over there i already gave you the link a few post back if you want to learn about the better power tubes go to page 201# 3007 but we started using 6SN7 as power tubes with adapters they sound really good probably the best sounding so far for the price..              http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-6CG7-6FQ7-tube-converter-adapter-/201115946751?hash=item2ed371ceff:g:J2oAAOSwQjNW-kSg


 

 Where do you recommend getting 6SN7 tubes to go with those adapters? Also, I see they have different versions, GT, GTA, GTB, EH, etc.... Which tube would be the right one? What brand is considered best? Lots of questions about this, any answers are appreciated.


----------



## MIKELAP

frogmeat69 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Go to the LITTEDOT TUBE ROLLING GUIDE lots of stuff to read about over there i already gave you the link a few post back if you want to learn about the better power tubes go to page 201# 3007 but we started using 6SN7 as power tubes with adapters they sound really good probably the best sounding so far for the price..              http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-6CG7-6FQ7-tube-converter-adapter-/201115946751?hash=item2ed371ceff:g:J2oAAOSwQjNW-kSg
> ...


 
 On page 202 post #3017 are a few popular 6SN7 types .Try using the search function atop the page very helpful also go to the LITTLEDOT TUBE ROLLING GUIDE  thread


----------



## richdytch

Hello folks. Oldtime lurker, and only very occasional poster here. 
  
 Well, UPS tell me that my Feliks Elise is only in the next town. So in order to try and take my mind off the wait (just how long can it take a courier to transport a parcel its last 24 miles?) I decided to try out a few tube combinations I'd never used before on the LD mkiii
  
 The biggest surprise so far has been my 1944 Tung Sol 6AK5s, in conjunction with some mid-sixties RCA 6SN7GTs... a really nice complement to each other. Great treble, lovely rich bass - everything sounding way more open and coherent than I remember before. I actually think this combo is superior to the 6SN7GT with Yugo 6HN5. It feels rather more natural and easy. 
  
 This'll be a nice way to see out the mkiii


----------



## mordy

Hi rd,
  
 All that I can tell you is that ever since I got my Elise my LD MKIII is gathering dust....One listen to the Elise, and there is no going back. Please post your first impressions - we'd love to hear from you!


----------



## richdytch

Hi Mordy, 
  
 Sorry for my delay replying. I'll post my full first impressions in the Elise thread shortly... but I think it'll provide a clear indication when I say that I'm late replying to you because last night I was fully occupied, listening to music 
  
 Rich


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Have you guys tried vintage receiver with speaker taps to drive your  HEADPHONES?
 All my dedicated headphone amps are all collecting dust i thought about getting the ELI$3 or GL3NN amp these amps are at least $800 - $1000+CAD way too much for me just to drive my headphones but then i found my beloved PIONEER SX-3700($80CAD)i don't feel the need for any HP amps anymore.


----------



## mordy

Hi i luvemusic2,
  
 Some of the old integrated amps and receivers had nice headphone outputs. Personally I listen mainly through speakers, but occasionally through headphones. Some time back I sold this 30W 1970s Pioneer integrated amp, and I was surprised how nice it sounded with headphones.
  




  
 Way back I had a Headroom The Max headphone amplifier - was supposed to be class A, but I never liked it.
  
 However, I now have an Elise amp. Besides being a headphone amp, it can be used as a preamp. All the great things people say about this amp are true, and I can highly recommend it. It is extremely flexible and can use a multitude of tubes and sounds terrific.
  
 You could even use it as a preamp for your Pioneer receiver!


----------



## Beztis

sup guys, i just recently got an mk3 and am looking to get some warmer sounding driver tubes.  (I hear mullards are the way to go if you want the warmest sound that is pure pleasure /  i just want pure warm pleasure, don't care for treble/"details") - its been tough finding the correct tubes though tbh.
  
 I found m8100s on ebay some say square getter and some say ring getter, what is the difference in sound? which one has the warmer sound?
  
 also i ended up ordering some mullard  6ak5 tubes but apparently they are not m8100s because they are bva and was told on reddit that they are by brimar or something :S would those still have a nice warm sound or do i need to get m8100s? 
  
 it is kinda annoying how it is hard to find discontinued stuff - i like to buy things that are readily available - are there any ef95 tubes that are still made today that have a nice warm sound?


----------



## superdux

Welcome here on Head-Fi! Yes the Mullard 8100 are really warm. You can add more warmth and a darker sound signature if you add some Chinese Nanking 6SN7 tubes as power tubes . But you will also need adapters for the 6SN7 tubes. The sound will be really warm and dark.


----------



## Beztis

superdux said:


> Welcome here on Head-Fi! Yes the Mullard 8100 are really warm. You can add more warmth and a darker sound signature if you add some Chinese Nanking 6SN7 tubes as power tubes . But you will also need adapters for the 6SN7 tubes. The sound will be really warm and dark.


 
 right on - what tubes are you using on your mk3? they look insanely cool in your avatar pic lol!


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## superdux

ATM i'm using stock power tubes and 1x 1975 6N23P with an adapter Mikelap had built. The tubes you can see in the pic are C3G with an adapter. They are amongst of the best tubes for the MKIII.


----------



## xibeca

Hi guys!
 Do you recommend this amp to listen to rock music? especially from the 70s and 80s which is what I like to hear.
 I have just bought a Grado SR325e from this forum and I have read that are special to be amplified.


----------



## Beztis

xibeca said:


> Hi guys!
> I you recommend this amp to listen to rock music, especially from the 70s and 80s which is what I like to hear.
> I have just bought a Grado SR325e from this forum and I have read that are special to be amplified.


 
 yeah this is the best tube amp out there right now. nowadays all the tube amps out there sound just like solid states, to where there's really no point in buying them when you can get an o2 for 150$ since it's literally the pinnacle of a clear and neutral solid state sound. alsoif you go buy woo's 2000$ amp it still sounds like a solid state, and then you are looking at hundreds of dollars to change those tubes and still not get the nice twangy sound of a true tube amp.
  
 Grados are extremely sharp and fatiguing, an mk3 is really the only way to truly enjoy them. You may also be looking at the dark voice - don't get it, i tried it - the stock tubes are garbage and after you spend more money to get nicer tubes, it still isn't as good as stock mk3, and the build quality is crap and it can break or catch on fire at any given moment :/


----------



## Beztis

I got a nice matched pair of vintage mullard m8100s from the 60s coming my way - should be here next week... i can't wait until they come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love my mk3 and I can definitely notice how its a lot smoother compared to a SS amp, but I'm really hoping the mullards make the music more twangy, gooey and honey filled so it becomes pure euphonic pleasure when i listen <3


----------



## Beztis

hey btw i figured out how to change the gain settings with the 2 switches, but how do you change the jumper settings to try different tube families? what does the jumper switch look like and how do u change it? do you have to unscrew and open it up to change the  jumper settings?  i think i see too little  holes that have little metal bits, but its so tiny theres no way i can tell if its a jumper switch or how to change it :S maybe i just wont worry about it.... if u change the jumper switch, does that mean the stock ef95 tubes wont work? i guess maybe its best to keep ef95 since they are the warmest family in general and my end goal are the mullard m8100s.... so if i change the jumper settings, will ef95 tubes stop working? what will happen? will they just not turn on or what?


----------



## frogmeat69

There are 2 oval holes where you can see the jumper pins, there are 3 pins with a jumper cap over 2 of the pins. To switch to EF91/92 tubes, you switch the jumper cap to the other pin and the middle pin. Take note, your board might look a little different than the pic, and you need to switch the jumper for both driver tubes. Also, the pins are quite fragile, so be gentle. Or you could  just leave them alone since the EF95 family has the biggest variety of tubes to try, and some of the best sounding.


----------



## Beztis

frogmeat69 said:


> There are 2 oval holes where you can see the jumper pins, there are 3 pins with a jumper cap over 2 of the pins. To switch to EF91/92 tubes, you switch the jumper cap to the other pin and the middle pin. Take note, your board might look a little different than the pic, and you need to switch the jumper for both driver tubes. Also, the pins are quite fragile, so be gentle. Or you could  just leave them alone since the EF95 family has the biggest variety of tubes to try, and some of the best sounding.


 
 oh helllll no, i'm guaranteed to screw this up - if it ain't broke - dont fix it!!!


----------



## Beztis

question though, if u have the jumper set to ef91/92, and you put in a ef95 tube, will it still light up and work? or what will happen?


----------



## gulakpi

beztis said:


> question though, if u have the jumper set to ef91/92, and you put in a ef95 tube, will it still light up and work? or what will happen?


 
 Not good!  In the EF92 setting, Pins 5,6 & 7 are short together.  All EF95 tubes have pin 2 and 7 shorted internally.
 Thus, if a EF95 tube is plugged into a socket with EF92 setting, you are shorting the Anode to the Cathode...........definitely it will cause serious damages!
  
 On the other hand, if you plug in an EF92 tube in a socket with EF95 setting, Grid 3 (pin 7) is just left floating.  While it may not sound normally, it will not explode!


----------



## Lux Nocte

So i just finished building my first turntable setup which includes this little dot amp. Playing around with my preamp, my speaker amplifiers, and my turntable's interior preamp revealed that my dot is bottlenecking the mids a bit, making vocals sound hollow. Just here to find some suggestions on what tubes I can get that might remedy this, thanks!


----------



## Beztis

lux nocte said:


> So i just finished building my first turntable setup which includes this little dot amp. Playing around with my preamp, my speaker amplifiers, and my turntable's interior preamp revealed that my dot is bottlenecking the mids a bit, making vocals sound hollow. Just here to find some suggestions on what tubes I can get that might remedy this, thanks!


 
 Are u using the stock tubes atm? tube amps do give a little bit smoother sound, is that what you mean by the mids being hollow? In general the #1 recommended tubes for the mk3 are the voshkod 6zh1p, though in all honesty i didn't notice a significat difference with them vs the stock GE tubes (made by RTC). I've been recently using the mullard m8100s which imo made it too dark even though i prefer a warm/dark sound.


----------



## Beztis

her'es a video of my ldmk3 with mullard tubes as a preamp for my monoprice studio monitors - its beautiful...a warm hug that fills the room...i cant share how they sound oin my 650shd (amazing) so just pre amp
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPFjAL29H6U


----------



## Lux Nocte

Sorry for the late reply. Yeah I'm using stock tubes. Was prepared for the warmer sound. When I get a minute I'll throw a video together giving an example of what I'm hearing. 
Edit: cool, my 100th post


----------



## Kubensis

Hello  i think my "power tubes" are old, and not working, because whenever i start my amp it blows a fuse. I was wondering if its the bigger or smaller. im pretty sure its smaller. I was wondering how much the sound quality would improve if i bought '*M8083 CV4014" *tubes. And for the larger ones "*VOSKHOD 6ZH1P-EV" *tubes.


----------



## Beztis

kubensis said:


> Hello  i think my "power tubes" are old, and not working, because whenever i start my amp it blows a fuse. I was wondering if its the bigger or smaller. im pretty sure its smaller. I was wondering how much the sound quality would improve if i bought '*M8083 CV4014" *tubes. And for the larger ones "*VOSKHOD 6ZH1P-EV" *tubes.


 
  
 well the small ones are driver tubes and the large ones are power tubes. what do you mean its blowing a fuse? are all 4 lighting up? I've done quite a bit of tube rolling on the mk3, tbh i didn't notice any difference changing the power tubes, only driver tubes. I'd recommend trying to get a cheap pair of russian 6h6n power tubes (the big ones) and yeah the voskhod driver tubes are one of the most recommended, but personally i just prefer mullard. are all 4 of your tubes lighting up?


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## CJG888

If it's actually blowing the mains fuse on switching on, I would suspect a fault with the power supply. In that case, your best course of action will probably be to return it to the manufacturer.


----------



## Beztis

i kinda have a weird question - im gonna 2 switches in my system - so 1 switch will direct the signal from my odac to my LDmk3 instead of my pre amp volume control for powered monitors -  and then another switch after the first swtich that will connect the MK3 line output and the odac output and wtich between.
  
 so basically my question is: if i have swiith 1 going to my mk3 and then switch 2 has the line output "off" - is it ok to have cables coming out of my MK3 that aren't connecting anywhere or can that damage anything?
  
  
 basically it will be like this:
  

  
 otherwise since its an OTL amp, can i use the lineout on the mk3 and use it as a passive preamp when the amp is off? i notice i can hear sound in the headphones when the amp is off at max volume...


----------



## Beztis

just curious, anybody know how to remove the volume knob on the mk3? do you just pull it straight off?  i tugged on it a bit but it didnt come off...and now im worried i broke it somehow lol - i mean its still working fine from what i can tell...just worried


----------



## MIKELAP

beztis said:


> just curious, anybody know how to remove the volume knob on the mk3? do you just pull it straight off?  i tugged on it a bit but it didnt come off...and now im worried i broke it somehow lol - i mean its still working fine from what i can tell...just worried


 
 There's a screw hole  on the knob just check if its an ALLEN HEAD screw or a FLAT HEAD  screw.


----------



## Beztis

mikelap said:


> There's a screw hole  on the knob just check if its an ALLEN HEAD screw or a FLAT HEAD  screw.


 
 i see now thanks! looks like it's a 1/16 hex - not gonna mess with it lol was just curious how it came off


----------



## richdytch

I'm wondering if you guys could help me with a query. I sold my LD mkiii to a friend in Macedonia. He's really very happy with it, but hasn't been able to try out the 6SN7 tubes with it yet, since I can't remember which of these two sets of adapters he's supposed to use. I bought them both around the same time, and can't remember which set I used to use - it's been a fairly long time since I used the LD. Grateful for any assistance: 
  

  
 Thank you, 
  
 Rich.


----------



## MIKELAP

richdytch said:


> I'm wondering if you guys could help me with a query. I sold my LD mkiii to a friend in Macedonia. He's really very happy with it, but hasn't been able to try out the 6SN7 tubes with it yet, since I can't remember which of these two sets of adapters he's supposed to use. I bought them both around the same time, and can't remember which set I used to use - it's been a fairly long time since I used the LD. Grateful for any assistance:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You need 6SN7 TO 6CG7 adapters


----------



## richdytch

Thank you Mikelap!


----------



## dbaker1981

Hey guys my mkiii will be here Saturday. In you opinion are the mullard tubes better then the amprex tubes? I listen to everything but rap and like a natural sound. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Arcee

dbaker1981 said:


> Hey guys my mkiii will be here Saturday. In you opinion are the mullard tubes better then the amprex tubes? I listen to everything but rap and like a natural sound. Thanks in advance!




It depends on the headphones you use. I like the Mullards a lot indeed but not always. Which cans will you use?


----------



## CJG888

I've just replaced the volume control on my Mk III with a Chinese SMD stepped attenuator (it just fits!). The improvement is not subtle.


----------



## dbaker1981

arcee said:


> It depends on the headphones you use. I like the Mullards a lot indeed but not always. Which cans will you use?




I have yipsolon modded grados, hd700,hd600, grado 325e, and hifiman he-400s.


----------



## Arcee

dbaker1981 said:


> I have yipsolon modded grados, hd700,hd600, grado 325e, and hifiman he-400s.


 

 ​From those I only have experience with the HD600's. There, I like the Mullard EF95 driver tubes in combination with the Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold Pin power tubes the best.
  
 Otherwise I also own the HD650 and have the best experience with the Voskhod 6J1P-EV driver tubes in combination with the Novosibirsk 6N6P-IR power tubes.
 Last but not least, for the HD800 the El Yugoslavia 6HM5 driver tubes and Novosibirsk 6N6P-I power tubes sound very good.
  
 At the moment I've moved on, and am using my HD800 in combination with a Nuforce HA-200. Even though it is not a tube amp, it sounds so good I haven't moved back to the Little Dot MKIII since.
 I'm not (yet) at the point of selling the LDIII but maybe soon... with a lot of tubes most of which are never used (Mullard, Voshkod, Tesla, Novosibirisk, Electro Harmonix, El Yugoslavia, etc). PM me if interested.


----------



## Scutey

Hi, The  EF95 Mullard in mill spec (M8100) will give you a very smooth natural and very musical sound with great bass, also the EF92 Mullard in mill spec (M8161) is, if anything even better, a cheaper alternative i've just discovered is the Philips JAN 5654w, not quite as smooth but still quite warm and has good detail and bass response, also as has been mentioned the Voskhod 6zh1p-ev, this has a slightly brighter sound signature but is very detailed throughout the frequency range and is cheap and plentifull and will last a very long time.


----------



## korpijaakko

My experience with the MK III has been very positive indeed.
  
 7 years of almost daily use with stock power tubes & M8161 drivers totalling thousands of hours.
 No noise with HD650, no sign of wearing out.
  
 Brilliant.


----------



## Scutey

korpijaakko said:


> My experience with the MK III has been very positive indeed.
> 
> 7 years of almost daily use with stock power tubes & M8161 drivers totalling thousands of hours.
> No noise with HD650, no sign of wearing out.
> ...


 
 Hi korpijaakko,
  
 That's very encouraging as i've only had my mkIII for 3 months!. The M8100 and M8161 are by far the best valve/tubes i've heard, hopefully i've got many years of happy listening to come!.


----------



## korpijaakko

I think it's about time to find some spare power tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I've been away from the tube rolling & audio world for years now and there's over 200 pages of text here so please bear with me.
  
 The bass part is a bit too subdued at the moment so I'm asking if that can be remedied with other pair of power tubes?
 Also, I'd like to know if there are any major differences between M8100 and M8161?
  
  
 Thanks & regards from Finland!


----------



## MIKELAP

korpijaakko said:


> I think it's about time to find some spare power tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 First off you should check out the LITTLEDOT TUBE ROLLING GUIDE very interesting thread if you want to check out power tube reviews go to page 201 post# 3007 also if you want to try out different driver tubes there's page 1 and better tubes we came up with on page 77 .post# 1154 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/1140


----------



## Scutey

korpijaakko said:


> I think it's about time to find some spare power tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## korpijaakko

Thank yous for showing the direction.
  
 6N6P-IR seems like a reasonably priced quality power tube.
 Anything specific to look for when deciding on a pair, low OTK number?


----------



## Scutey

korpijaakko said:


> Thank yous for showing the direction.
> 
> 6N6P-IR seems like a reasonably priced quality power tube.
> Anything specific to look for when deciding on a pair, low OTK number?


 
 Not sure, got mine off Ebay and are from the Novosibirsk factory, Mine have have the OTK then a rhombus with the letter J inside, at least it appears to be a J,what I can say is there has been an improvement in clarity, bass response, and mid and upper range. They also should all seem to have smoked glass around the middle. Oh BTY the Ebay seller I got mine from is called svetlana_ua.


----------



## MIKELAP

korpijaakko said:


> Thank yous for showing the direction.
> 
> 6N6P-IR seems like a reasonably priced quality power tube.
> Anything specific to look for when deciding on a pair, low OTK number?


 
 OTK number is quality control stamp


----------



## mordy

Hi K,
  
 Having being part of the Little Dot thread for a long time, my recommendation, based on trying numerous different tubes, is the Ei 6HM5 as drivers, Then buy the 6SN7 to 6GC7 adapters and any inexpensive pair of 6SN7 octal tubes as power tubes.
  
 The general consensus was that these tubes were better than the original types and variations of them. In addition, the 6HM5 have an instant on feature that looks like a little fireworks in the tube!


----------



## korpijaakko

scutey said:


> Not sure, got mine off Ebay and are from the Novosibirsk factory, Mine have have the OTK then a rhombus with the letter J inside, at least it appears to be a J,what I can say is there has been an improvement in clarity, bass response, and mid and upper range. They also should all seem to have smoked glass around the middle. Oh BTY the Ebay seller I got mine from is called svetlana_ua.


 
  
 Hope it's 1 because one pair ordered from her.


----------



## Scutey

Hope they work out well for you!.


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> Hi K,
> 
> Having being part of the Little Dot thread for a long time, my recommendation, based on trying numerous different tubes, is the Ei 6HM5 as drivers, Then buy the 6SN7 to 6GC7 adapters and any inexpensive pair of 6SN7 octal tubes as power tubes.
> 
> The general consensus was that these tubes were better than the original types and variations of them. In addition, the 6HM5 have an instant on feature that looks like a little fireworks in the tube!


 
 Hi mordy,
  
 Interested in your comment on the 6SN7 as power tubes, I was wondering if you could offer any more info based on what you know. You said they need an adapter, please excuse my ignorance but I assume the adapter plugs into the 6n6p socket and the tube into the adapter, also are there any other mods that need to be done?, also (apologies for all the questions but you've got me intrigued!), have you any recommendations for 6SN7 tubes with good base?.


----------



## LaCuffia

Just got the Little Dot MKIII yesterday....nice so far, but there is a crackling sound that I notice when music is not playing - is this a grounding problem, the tubes, or something else?   Would replacing power cord help? I would appreciate some assistance, thanks.


----------



## MIKELAP

lacuffia said:


> Just got the Little Dot MKIII yesterday....nice so far, but there is a crackling sound that I notice when music is not playing - is this a grounding problem, the tubes, or something else?   Would replacing power cord help? I would appreciate some assistance, thanks.


 
  .Have you cleaned the pins of the tubes to start with ?.does this sound happen on startup and only for a few minutes?. this would be normal tube crackle when warming up sometimes .where does the sound come from the left or right channel ? if from one channel swap tubes around starting with power tubes and after with the driver goal is to see that when tubes are swapped if noise follows to the side you just swicthed tube to .Start with this .


----------



## LaCuffia

This is my first real tube amp so no idea what cleaning the pints of the tubes would entail.   The crackling noise is usually in both channels, and remains even after half hour of the amp being on.  I did notice the crackling noise getting louder when I move the tone arm of my turntable to a record, so perhaps there is interference with other components of my system.   But I will try switching the tubes first and see how that goes.  Thanks for your comments.


----------



## mordy

HI l,
  
 Mikelap offers you good advice.
  
 To clean the tube pins, take a small pen knife or similar (does not have to be be sharp), and gently scrape the surface on each pin, all around the pin, especially if you see dirt or oxidation.
  
 This is the best and cheapest method.
  
 Some people insist on cleaning chemically with de-oxit, which is pricey. Instead, you can go to Walmart and buy a similar electronics cleaner for a fraction of the price:
  
  CRC QD Electronic Cleaner, 11 Wt Oz
    Average rating: 5 stars12 reviewsratings



    By: CRC
 Walmart #: 550316559

















 














   About this item

Cleans and protects sensitive electronic equipment
Helps prevent contact failure
Quick-drying formula
 



   $4.77
  
 The easiest way is to order it on line and pick it up at a nearby Walmart - sometimes it is hard to find these items in the store.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## MIKELAP

lacuffia said:


> This is my first real tube amp so no idea what cleaning the pints of the tubes would entail.   The crackling noise is usually in both channels, and remains even after half hour of the amp being on.  I did notice the crackling noise getting louder when I move the tone arm of my turntable to a record, so perhaps there is interference with other components of my system.   But I will try switching the tubes first and see how that goes.  Thanks for your comments.


 
 For sure you gotta keep cordless phone and things like that away from amp try pluging the amp in another room and see if same thing occurs .For the pins i use a fine sandpaper put it around the pin and go up and down until there clean


----------



## LaCuffia

So I disconnected the amp from the phono preamp and just had the headphones connected and it still made a crackling noise - even with the volume turned all the way down. The driver tube pins seem a little dirty though. Is it the tubes or something inherently wrong with the amp? I really like the amp otherwise but would like to echange it if is defective.


----------



## MIKELAP

lacuffia said:


> So I disconnected the amp from the phono preamp and just had the headphones connected and it still made a crackling noise - even with the volume turned all the way down. The driver tube pins seem a little dirty though. Is it the tubes or something inherently wrong with the amp? I really like the amp otherwise but would like to echange it if is defective.


 
 Did you try plugging it in  a wall socket  in another room to see if you still here the crackling noise ?


----------



## LaCuffia

Amp must be okay then since plugged in another room with just headphones it's silent. Has to be what we stated earlier - interference with other equipment or grounding issue.

Thanks again for your input.


----------



## MIKELAP

lacuffia said:


> Amp must be okay then since plugged in another room with just headphones it's silent. Has to be what we stated earlier - interference with other equipment or grounding issue.
> 
> Thanks again for your input.


 
 Glad to help .I had that interference problem with my wireless phone, removed it problem gone


----------



## BetterLate

You might try ac line filter on amp power cordif it is not interference. I use HumX by Ebtech which costs about fifty bucks on Amazon. It eliminated a hum I was getting from my source laptop


----------



## LaCuffia

Despite the issues I've had, which are fairly minor and are not bothersome when the music is playing, I am so impressed with this Little Dot MKiii with my Audioquest Nighthawk. I am coming from an JDS O2 amp so this is another level. Looking forward to logging some hours on the stock tubes to see how things blossom (I've only had the amp a few days) but also excited about the tube rolling options for later. I know nothing about tubes so it's been very cool and interesting to read through this thread.


----------



## MIKELAP

lacuffia said:


> Despite the issues I've had, which are fairly minor and are not bothersome when the music is playing, I am so impressed with this Little Dot MKiii with my Audioquest Nighthawk. I am coming from an JDS O2 amp so this is another level. Looking forward to logging some hours on the stock tubes to see how things blossom (I've only had the amp a few days) but also excited about the tube rolling options for later. I know nothing about tubes so it's been very cool and interesting to read through this thread.


 
 I suggest the tube rolling guide thread this is where all the infos youll need is and start by the end, better tubes we tried are there. Page 77 has most of the tubes we tried .Power tube reviews on page 201 post 3007 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/10455#post_13026470


----------



## LaCuffia

I bought some Tung Sol 6AK5W tubes and they sound amazing. So much better than the stock right out of the box. The bass in particular is deep and powerful but not bloated. 

Guess I got the tube rolling bug sooner than expected...


----------



## richdytch

lacuffia said:


> I bought some Tung Sol 6AK5W tubes and they sound amazing. So much better than the stock right out of the box. The bass in particular is deep and powerful but not bloated.
> 
> Guess I got the tube rolling bug sooner than expected...




Those are some beautiful tubes. I had a 1944 pair and they were the business.


----------



## s0ny

I'm using my Little Dot MKIII with Mullard M8161 EF92 tubes as a pre-amp. My amp is an integrated one, thus using it's own pre-amp, but Having the LD MKIII between the CD player and amp does improve the sound a lot. Especially instrument separation and the typical tube sound. I wish I could disable the integrated amp's solid state pre-amp


----------



## i luvmusic 2

You can insert the MKIII in between the PRE IN/OUT or you can insert it between TAPE LOOP which is i have in my system good thing about between the tape loop you can disable it if you want to.Mine is PIONEER SA-7700,TECHNICS SL-1700(Ortofon 2M red/Shure m97xe),SANSUI SPX-6900.


----------



## wink

I can only seem to roll my tubes the length of my table before they fall off the edge and break on the floor......


----------



## MIKELAP

s0ny said:


> I'm using my Little Dot MKIII with Mullard M8161 EF92 tubes as a pre-amp. My amp is an integrated one, thus using it's own pre-amp, but Having the LD MKIII between the CD player and amp does improve the sound a lot. Especially instrument separation and the typical tube sound. I wish I could disable the integrated amp's solid state pre-amp


 
 Is your integrated amp DC COUPLED ? I know for a fact that the mk3 doesnt have a protection circuit if used as preamp with DC COUPLED amps .For example several years ago i wanted to use my Littledot MK3 as preamp with my 70's Pioneer SX750 and i was told not to ,  DC surge could have potentially catastrophic effects since LD is an OTL amp


----------



## MIKELAP

wink said:


> I can only seem to roll my tubes the length of my table before they fall off the edge and break on the floor......


 
 Broke them most of the time while handling them before taking a picture to post on the LD thread good thing it didnt happen to often and thank god for this guy, who brought  in fresh replacements lol.


----------



## LaCuffia

I want to try the LD as a pre-amp hooked up to a simple JDS O2 headphone amp but have no idea if the O2 is "DC coupled" and not safe to try. Anybody know ?


----------



## MIKELAP

lacuffia said:


> I want to try the LD as a pre-amp hooked up to a simple JDS O2 headphone amp but have no idea if the O2 is "DC coupled" and not safe to try. Anybody know ?


 
 Just ask manufacture


----------



## Scutey

lol


----------



## LaCuffia

Yes, JDS confirmed that the O2 is not DC coupled.


----------



## Scutey

Following mordy's recommendation for replacing the power tubes with the 6sn7 I thought i'd give them a try, after a bit of research I managed to pick up some new Electro Harmonix 6sn7EH for a very reasonable price. I have to say I'm quite impressed with this tube/6sn7  type,paired with Voskhod 6zh1p-ev for drivers, to my ears they are more energetic,airier,good separation, warmth, clarity, detail and above all bass, holy cow, can these bad boys punch!, so thanks to mordy the recommendation, next stop some Kenrad jan 6sn7gt!... hopefully!.


----------



## mordy

Hi Scutey,
  
 Glad to hear that you enjoy the 6SN7 power tubes. Another driver tube upgrade that a lot of people liked better than the Voskhods is  the Yugoslavian Ei 6HM5 tubes.
  
 It has to be understood that vacuum tube manufacturers have constraints regarding which tubes to use. It has to be a tube that is readily available in quantities, and if the amp is sold at a certain price point, not too expensive. This is the reason most new tube amps use Russian made tubes today.
  
 As an individual amp owner you have much more flexibility in which tubes to use since you do not have to choose from current production (very few) or from massive supplies of Russian tubes.
  
 Another 6SN7 tube that sounds quite good and is being made today is the Tung Sol Reissue 6SN7GTB Russian tubes. I did not try them in the Little Dot MKIII, but they sound quite good in my current amp.
  
 The Ei and 6SN7 combination is pretty much the best sound you can wring out of the LD MKIII without going to external power supplies etc.
  
 You will be happy with this combination. But, if the upgrade bug bites you, there are amps that are more expensive (but not outrageously more) that will make you put the LD aside to collect dust......


----------



## LaCuffia

Anybody familiar with both the LD Mkiii and the Feliks Elise tube amp and can offer comparison? The Feliks is more expensive but just curious as to whether it is a significant upgrade. It seems to get a lot of great reviews.


----------



## mordy

Hi LaCuffia,
  
  
 I started with the LD MKIII and rolled tubes extensively with it for several years. After getting the Elise I never returned to the Little Dot.
  
 The Elise is an enormous upgrade and vastly superior in every aspect. The Elise is an amp that makes all tubes sound good, and some combinations absolutely magnificent. It is an amp that you can stay with, without wanting more.
  
 The stock tubes are quite good, but you can get improved performance with some relatively inexpensive tubes.
  
 Highly recommended!


----------



## LaCuffia

Thanks Mordy...great to know


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> Hi Scutey,
> 
> Glad to hear that you enjoy the 6SN7 power tubes. Another driver tube upgrade that a lot of people liked better than the Voskhods is  the Yugoslavian Ei 6HM5 tubes.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi mordy,
  
 Forgot to mention it in my last post but that was the other of your recommendations that I followed up on and bought a pair  of the 6hm5's from an excellent ebay seller in Serbia, and yet again, you were spot on!, lovely smooth sounding tube, quite linear, a bit less bass punch than the Voskhods, but not in a bad way
  
 I as you say I guess when it comes to choosing tube type designers/makers have to make some compromises over availability, durablity, sound quality etc, the 6n6 route is fairly limited whereas the 6sn7 has far more possibilities.
  
 I will have to look at the Tung Sol, also did you ever use the Sylvania 6sn7gt/gtb in your LD?, any other recommendations you may have would be greatly appreciated!.
  
 One more thing I have noticed with the 6sn7 is that even after 2+ hours of use the whole amp is barely luke warm.
  
 Regards.


----------



## mordy

Hi Scutey,
  
  
 My recommendations are based on the collective consensus of the Little Dot thread, and I can't take credit for everything you mention.
  
 There is an upgrade you can do with power tubes, but that will require an external 15A power supply and an additional adapter to connect a 15 amp voltage regulator to the power supply. This will allow you to use 2.5A power tubes. I had the best results with Sylvania 6080 tubes which are inexpensive.
  
 If you have the means to get the Elise, I would recommend that instead of going further with the LD MKIII.


----------



## Scutey

Hi mordy,
  
 I think I have nearly gone as far as I can go with the LD MKIII, there comes a point after lots of tube rolling when the sound doesn't get any better and you just keep buying more tubes for the sake of it, I'm going to try either a Ken-Rad jan 6sn7 gt or the Sylvania jan 6sn7gtb and then I think that will be my lot. Will have to give some thought to the Elise and do some reading up on it (on Head-fi of course!).
  
 Once again thanks for your input and to all other head-fiers who give their thoughts and opinions in this thread, it has been an invaluable source of information, from time to time I will chip in with my own thoughts, for what they're worth!.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Nick 214

scutey said:


> Hi mordy,
> 
> I think I have nearly gone as far as I can go with the LD MKIII, there comes a point after lots of tube rolling when the sound doesn't get any better and you just keep buying more tubes for the sake of it, I'm going to try either a Ken-Rad jan 6sn7 gt or the Sylvania jan 6sn7gtb and then I think that will be my lot. Will have to give some thought to the Elise and do some reading up on it (on Head-fi of course!).
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds like you have a good plan here. I will add the that biggest changes I heard in my LD3 came from Mullard M8100s... I did the JAN and Sylvania stuff, but the M8100s elevated the overall tightness, cohesion, and dynamics of the amplifier. I'd give them a go. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 NK


----------



## mordy

Hi Scutey,
  
 What is valuable with tube rolling is that my experience has been that tubes that sound good in one amp often sound good in a different amp. All the octal tubes are usable in the Elise, and the small signal tubes can be used with adapters as well.
  
 Over time you also pick up the sound signature of different manufacturers, and which brands/manufacturers to avoid as well......


----------



## Scutey

Hi Nick,
  
 You're right about the M8100s, I have a couple pairs and they are a particular fave of mine, also the M8161s, and also mordy's recommendation of the EI 6HM5.


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> Hi Scutey,
> 
> What is valuable with tube rolling is that my experience has been that tubes that sound good in one amp often sound good in a different amp. All the octal tubes are usable in the Elise, and the small signal tubes can be used with adapters as well.
> 
> Over time you also pick up the sound signature of different manufacturers, and which brands/manufacturers to avoid as well......


 
 Hi mordy,
  
 I've only had my LD for four months but I'm beginning to pick up on that, sort of like a manufacturers house sound.
  
 Really upto the start of this year I was very much a fan of solid state amps, tube amps didn't interest me, couldn't understand why they were so well regarded however  I decided to give the LD a go and see what all the fuss was about and i'm so glad I did!, I still use my Beyer A20 amp, but I prefer my LD, for it's the way you can change the sound just by changing a couple glass tubes! it's like having several different amps in just a few small boxes!.
  
 What you were saying about all the octal tubes being useable in the Elise is good to know, that no searching and paying again for more tubes!, mordy you're making a very good case for the Elise!.


----------



## s0ny

mikelap said:


> Is your integrated amp DC COUPLED ? I know for a fact that the mk3 doesnt have a protection circuit if used as preamp with DC COUPLED amps .For example several years ago i wanted to use my Littledot MK3 as preamp with my 70's Pioneer SX750 and i was told not to ,  DC surge could have potentially catastrophic effects since LD is an OTL amp


The wall outlet is AC and it's converted to DC for my amp. I hooked up my LD MKIII's preamp out to my amp's line in using an RCA-cable.


----------



## Scutey

Just managed to win an auction for a pair of Philips JAN 6SN7WGTA to use in my MKIII, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of info on them but what there is suggests they will be a very good sounding tube, I gather that the w prefix means they are military?, anyway looking forward to giving em a go!.


----------



## mordy

W stands for military ruggerized construction. If I remember correctly the Sylvania brand was bought by Phillips at the end of the tube era. What you have is a Sylvania tube and these are always of good quality


----------



## Scutey

Well I bought them on the understanding they were the mil spec version and had sylvania heritage after doing some research on the 6SN7 thread and also reading other positive comments about these tubes so it's nice to know that they should be a good buy, looking forward to giving them a good run. I've also managed to buy a pair of the Siemens C3G tubes for drivers as i've heard they are very impressive so if they work out I think that will be my endgame with the LD MKIII.


----------



## mordy

The C3g are excellent drivers but need special adapters. They are much more fragile than other tubes. To insert, just push straight down. To remove from adapter, use a small flat blade screw driver and lift up a little bit at a time, working yourself around the base.
  
 If you rock the tube back and forth like other tubes, you risk breaking the glass.


----------



## Scutey

mordy said:


> The C3g are excellent drivers but need special adapters. They are much more fragile than other tubes. To insert, just push straight down. To remove from adapter, use a small flat blade screw driver and lift up a little bit at a time, working yourself around the base.
> 
> If you rock the tube back and forth like other tubes, you risk breaking the glass.


 
 Hi mordy,
  
 Thanks for letting me know, I will do as you advise!, don't want to break them as they've cost me £40/$50!, the most i've ever spent on a pair of tubes, this sort of advice can be invaluable!.


----------



## Scutey

Oh when I get my Philips JAN6SN7WGTA, (hopefully in a day or two), i'll post a couple pics.


----------



## s0ny

mikelap said:


> Is your integrated amp DC COUPLED ? I know for a fact that the mk3 doesnt have a protection circuit if used as preamp with DC COUPLED amps .For example several years ago i wanted to use my Littledot MK3 as preamp with my 70's Pioneer SX750 and i was told not to ,  DC surge could have potentially catastrophic effects since LD is an OTL amp


I found these threads. According to them, it's an issue when you power on the LD MKIII. It can put 60 VDC on the ouput connectors at startup. You can overcome it by warming up the tube amp first and then turning on the power/integrated amp to avoid the peak. I will stop using the preamp feature because I'm not willing to take any risk of damaging my equipment. Thanks for the precaution.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/little-dot-mk-iii-warning.446872/

http://www.rdhworld.myzen.co.uk/smfcu/index.php?topic=18542.0


----------



## Scutey

So I've been using these NOS Philips JAN6SN7WGTA, for the last few days and I can't decide whether I like them or not, my thoughts so far are that they are quite a fast sounding tube, very clear, detailed,low noise, excellent space, soundstage, dynamics but but also a bit lacking in bass and has a rather cool solid state sound, will have to give them some more burn in time but if they don't develop (a bit more bass) then it's back to the EHs.


----------



## Hotspringseeker

s0ny said:


> I found these threads. According to them, it's an issue when you power on the LD MKIII. It can put 60 VDC on the ouput connectors at startup. You can overcome it by warming up the tube amp first and then turning on the power/integrated amp to avoid the peak. I will stop using the preamp feature because I'm not willing to take any risk of damaging my equipment. Thanks for the precaution.
> 
> http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/little-dot-mk-iii-warning.446872/
> 
> http://www.rdhworld.myzen.co.uk/smfcu/index.php?topic=18542.0


 

 It's all true but not at the same time.
 I've kicked out several receiver relays and popped speakers when using my LD even in the tape loop just by turning it on.
 It will phase out the whole system as the tubes start to warm up and the tranny draws power.
 There can be a pop when switching in and out of a tape loop as well for the 1st time after turned on.
 It's not a problem if you turn the LD on 1st, adjust the volume to 1/3-1/2 and let it warm up 3-4 minutes before you turn everything else on.
 I've never had anything crazy happen if you follow that sequence, even if using with vinyl, loud, as a looped preamp to a SS unit.
 It will have a different sound when using headphones alone vs listening to cans while it is simultaneously hooked up as a pre .
 Great fun the Mk3.
 I've liked mine alot since I got it 8 years ago.
 Just found some 70's Vokshod's and Bugle Boy Amperex's swap out with the Mullard's.
 It's one piece of actual well built Chinese kit (thanks Dave!) I don;t think I'll ever part with.
 Maybe someday I'll make a nice hardwood case for it someday so it blends in with the Luxman it works well with.


----------



## Hotspringseeker

Some tubes you can really never go wrong with.
 Telefunken, Amperex, Phillips, Mullard and Electo-Harmonx nstantly come to mind that made a lot of great tubes.
 But probably never a truly bad one..


----------



## Scutey

hotspringseeker said:


> Some tubes you can really never go wrong with.
> Telefunken, Amperex, Phillips, Mullard and Electo-Harmonx nstantly come to mind that made a lot of great tubes.
> But probably never a truly bad one..


 
 All excellent tubes, have you also tried the EI 6HM5?, and the best sounding tube i've heard for the Mk3 the C3G.


----------



## dobigstuff

Scutey:
  
 This combo sounds great:
  
 Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi for the Power Tubes.
 Telefunken 5654 for the Driver Tubes.
  
 However I do use an MIT Shotgun AC Power Cord and MIT Matrix 6 Interconnects from the Schiit Bifrost.
  
 I hope this helps.


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> Scutey:
> 
> This combo sounds great:
> 
> ...


 

 ​Thanks for the recommend!, I have a pair of the EH but I've never heard the Telefunkens, although I know they get a lot of love, The best combo I've heard so far is EH 6SN7 and Philips JAN6SN7WGTA for power with Siemens C3G for drivers, the clarity and detail is wonderful and the bass from the C3Gs is thunderous!.


----------



## dobigstuff

Thank you for those suggestions.
  
 By the way I have JAN 5654's in my Little Dot 1+ and they pack a punch.


----------



## dbaker1981

dobigstuff said:


> Thank you for those suggestions.
> 
> By the way I have JAN 5654's in my Little Dot 1+ and they pack a punch.




I use the same tubes and really like them. Just lost one though so going to have to grab another set.


----------



## dobigstuff

dbaker1981:
  
 Give those Telefunken 5654's a try (if you haven't already)  They are also great in the Little Dot 1+


----------



## STR-1

I've just bought a used Little Dot mk3 off ebay and I am unsure whether I have the jumpers that allow switching between EF92 and EF95 tubes. There were no separate jumpers in the package and the person I bought the LD from only used it once and didn't remember there being any separate jumpers. The drive tubes in the LD are General Electric GE5654, which I think are EF95 tubes, which would be compatible with the instruction booklet saying the factory default is for no jumpers (for EF95 tubes). And yet when I look through the viewing holes to the jumper switches I can see a black jumper across two of the three pins in each bank. I hasten to add that I have next to zero technical knowledge with switches and things electrical generally, so don't know what to make of this. Grateful for any advice. Thanks.


----------



## MIKELAP

str-1 said:


> I've just bought a used Little Dot mk3 off ebay and I am unsure whether I have the jumpers that allow switching between EF92 and EF95 tubes. There were no separate jumpers in the package and the person I bought the LD from only used it once and didn't remember there being any separate jumpers. The drive tubes in the LD are General Electric GE5654, which I think are EF95 tubes, which would be compatible with the instruction booklet saying the factory default is for no jumpers (for EF95 tubes). And yet when I look through the viewing holes to the jumper switches I can see a black jumper across two of the three pins in each bank. I hasten to add that I have next to zero technical knowledge with switches and things electrical generally, so don't know what to make of this. Grateful for any advice. Thanks.


 
 Are the jumpers on the EF95 side or not 5654 are a ef95 type tube


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> str-1 said:
> 
> 
> > I've just bought a used Little Dot mk3 off ebay and I am unsure whether I have the jumpers that allow switching between EF92 and EF95 tubes. There were no separate jumpers in the package and the person I bought the LD from only used it once and didn't remember there being any separate jumpers. The drive tubes in the LD are General Electric GE5654, which I think are EF95 tubes, which would be compatible with the instruction booklet saying the factory default is for no jumpers (for EF95 tubes). And yet when I look through the viewing holes to the jumper switches I can see a black jumper across two of the three pins in each bank. I hasten to add that I have next to zero technical knowledge with switches and things electrical generally, so don't know what to make of this. Grateful for any advice. Thanks.
> ...


 
 i might ad that on my MK3 jumpers are always on one side EF95 or the other EF92 Theres 3 pins so depending on tube type its either the 2 pins to the left or the 2 pins to the right that you use


----------



## STR-1

mikelap said:


> i might ad that on my MK3 jumpers are always on one side EF95 or the other EF92




Ah, so I do have them. The LD is working well with the GE tubes, so if I want to use EF92 tubes I just move the jumpers across to cover the middle and currently exposed pins?


----------



## MIKELAP

str-1 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > i might ad that on my MK3 jumpers are always on one side EF95 or the other EF92
> ...


 
 Yes it would be the  first 2 pins on the left in my picture


----------



## STR-1

mikelap said:


> Yes it would be the  first 2 pins on the left in my picture



Great, thanks. 

I must say that this is the first I have used the LD since getting it a couple of weeks ago, and I accept that the tubes are no where near run-in yet, but I am already bowled over by how good it sounds. I'm playing 16/44 alac files from iTunes on my iMac, running through a Jitterbug and Chord Mojo. I tried first with AQ NightHawk headphones, which was good but no where near as good as with the Focal Utopias (DHC Prion cable). This will be my study setup but I will at some point also tryout with the Chord DAVE from my main system, and then on to some tube rolling.


----------



## MIKELAP

str-1 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Yes it would be the  first 2 pins on the left in my picture
> ...


 
 My best setup for the MK3 was using adapters with 6SN7 as power tubes and adapters with C3G used as drivers i used mainly Senns HD800  with the MK3 well regarded drivers and also cheap are the 6HM5 tall bottle tubes at around $5.00 each and as power tubes the Russian 6N6PIR tubes which are about $30.00/ pair  here'a power tube review from this thread maybe you havent seen it  page 201post #3007 in the littledot tube rolling guide thread here  http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/3000


----------



## dobigstuff

mikelap said:


> My best setup for the MK3 was using adapters with 6SN7 as power tubes and adapters with C3G used as drivers i used mainly Senns HD800  with the MK3 well regarded drivers and also cheap are the 6HM5 tall bottle tubes at around $5.00 each and as power tubes the Russian 6N6PIR tubes which are about $30.00/ pair  here'a power tube review from this thread maybe you havent seen it  page 201post #3007 in the littledot tube rolling guide thread here  http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/3000


 
 MIKELAP:
  
 As always thanks for all the info you provide to all members.  What converter adapters do I need for the 6SN7 tubes for the Little Dot III in photo below?  I can't tell.






  
 Thanks,
 Anthony


----------



## MIKELAP

dobigstuff said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > My best setup for the MK3 was using adapters with 6SN7 as power tubes and adapters with C3G used as drivers i used mainly Senns HD800  with the MK3 well regarded drivers and also cheap are the 6HM5 tall bottle tubes at around $5.00 each and as power tubes the Russian 6N6PIR tubes which are about $30.00/ pair  here'a power tube review from this thread maybe you havent seen it  page 201post #3007 in the littledot tube rolling guide thread here  http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/3000
> ...


 
 They are expensive but good quality  6SN7(TOP) TO 6CG7 (BOTTOM)  Adapters There's cheaper ones also Here's the link http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-6CG7-6FQ7-tube-converter-adapter-/201115946751?hash=item2ed371ceff:g:J2oAAOSwQjNW-kSg


----------



## MIKELAP

mikelap said:


> dobigstuff said:
> 
> 
> > mikelap said:
> ...


 
 One more thing if i recall not sure the adapters  are going to fit in the rings they are to big. in the picture it seemed to work as some adapters had longer pins .Personnally i removed all the rings on the Littledot


----------



## dobigstuff

Thanks for the help!!


----------



## mordy

HI Dobigstuff,
  
 If the adapters are too wide to fit inside the decorative rings in the MKIII, you could buy inexpensive 9pin socket extenders. Won't win the beauty contest, but works.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/9Pin-Bakelite-Vacuum-Tube-Socket-Saver-base-For-12AX7-12AU7-ECC82-ECC83-amps-/311635560470?hash=item488eed4816:g:J40AAOSw9GhYbhGv
  
 It is possible to remove the brass rings, but may entail some difficulty.


----------



## dobigstuff

mordy said:


> HI Dobigstuff,
> 
> If the adapters are too wide to fit inside the decorative rings in the MKIII, you could buy inexpensive 9pin socket extenders. Won't win the beauty contest, but works.
> 
> ...


 

 Mordy:
  
 Thanks for the help.  I saw someone with those "socket savers".  These are the Tubes I have in the Little Dot MK III:
  Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi for the Power Tubes. Telefunken 5654 for the Driver Tubes.
  
 Is there anything I need to do when if I change to the 6SN7 Tubes?
  
 Thanks,


----------



## mordy

Hi dobigstuff,
  
 In order to use the 6SN7 you need adapters from an octal base to a 9pin base - these have been described recently on this thread. Once you have them you may need the socket extenders if the pins do not reach into the sockets because of that brass ring.
  
 IMHO any 6SN7 is better sounding than all the 6H30 variants  in the MKIII (although I have not heard the 6H30-DR "supertube" which i think is just a lot of advertising hype.)


----------



## dobigstuff

mordy said:


> Hi dobigstuff,
> 
> In order to use the 6SN7 you need adapters from an octal base to a 9pin base - these have been described recently on this thread. Once you have them you may need the socket extenders if the pins do not reach into the sockets because of that brass ring.
> 
> IMHO any 6SN7 is better sounding than all the 6H30 variants  in the MKIII (although I have not heard the 6H30-DR "supertube" which i think is just a lot of advertising hype.)


 

 Mordy:
  
 Again, thanks for all of your help!!  I will give the 6SN7's a try.


----------



## Scutey

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-6SN7-TO-ECC88-6DJ8-6N11-6922-6N6P-tube-adapter-for-you-amp-/201079159018?hash=item2ed14078ea:g:3~sAAOSw9mFWLioO  
 Quote: 





dobigstuff said:


> Mordy:
> 
> Again, thanks for all of your help!!  I will give the 6SN7's a try.


 

 Hi dobigstuff,
  
 That was my pic and the converters are 6SN7 TO ECC88, this might be a better pic for you, here is a link to the Ebay site I bought them from. By the way the pins are long and you just plug them straight in (plug and play), the base of the converter sits on top of the brass ring, I'm assuming they were designed for the LD MKIII.


----------



## dobigstuff

scutey said:


> Hi dobigstuff,
> 
> That was my pic and the converters are 6SN7 TO ECC88, this might be a better pic for you, here is a link to the Ebay site I bought them from. By the way the pins are long and you just plug them straight in (plug and play), the base of the converter sits on top of the brass ring, I'm assuming they were designed for the LD MKIII.


 
 Scutey:
  
 Sorry I didn't know whose photo that was.  Thank you very much for the link and the clear photo.


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> Scutey:
> 
> Sorry I didn't know whose photo that was.  Thank you very much for the link and the clear photNo need


 
 No need to apologise!, it's there to be used, just thought i'd put another pic out if it might have helped, btw those converters do a really good job, also that tube in the pic, the Philips Jan is very good as a power tube.


----------



## dobigstuff

mordy said:


> Hi dobigstuff,
> 
> In order to use the 6SN7 you need adapters from an octal base to a 9pin base - these have been described recently on this thread. Once you have them you may need the socket extenders if the pins do not reach into the sockets because of that brass ring.
> 
> IMHO any 6SN7 is better sounding than all the 6H30 variants  in the MKIII (although I have not heard the 6H30-DR "supertube" which i think is just a lot of advertising hype.)


 
 Mordy:
  
 (Or anyone who might be able to offer help)
  
 I removed the Brass Trim Rings in preparation for my 6SN7 Tubes.  One thing I noticed on my Volume Pot, it appears that the Black and Red Wires came loose or were not connected.  I was real careful still they are very fine wires.  See Photo below.  Anybody know where the red and black connect?
  
 Thanks


----------



## MIKELAP

dobigstuff said:


> mordy said:
> 
> 
> > Hi dobigstuff,
> ...


----------



## dobigstuff

MIKELAP:
  
 Thanks for your help!!!


----------



## dobigstuff

Mikelap:
Do you know where I can get an upgraded Alps volume pot for my Little Dot 3?
Needs to have the white plug so I can swap easily. I have nothing but problems because I can solder the small wire 
Thanks


----------



## MIKELAP

dobigstuff said:


> Mikelap:
> Do you know where I can get an upgraded Alps volume pot for my Little Dot 3?
> Needs to have the white plug so I can swap easily. I have nothing but problems because I can solder the small wire
> Thanks


 
 This is the pot i am using in my Littledot MK3.Choose  the 100K pot ,but they only sell the pot are you saying you also need the connector? if so  i dont know where to get that.. I resoldered the connections                              http://www.ebay.com/itm/DACT-Type-21-Stepped-Attenuator-Volume-Control-Hi-Fi-Grade-for-Amp-Preamp-/201654831210?var=&hash=item2ef390886amzeTLWK9sN8OHriv9TouXHQ


----------



## mordy

Hi dobigstuff,
  
 I really don't know anything about electronics and soldering. However, I remember a number of readers being happy with this parts source so you may want to explore their site or contact them:
  
 http://www.partsconnexion.com/
  
 Another person that may be able to assist you on this thread is Trolldragon - shoot him a pm.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## dobigstuff

Mordy:
  
 Thanks for the help!!


----------



## dobigstuff

mikelap said:


> This is the pot i am using in my Littledot MK3.Choose  the 100K pot ,but they only sell the pot are you saying you also need the connector? if so  i dont know where to get that.. I resoldered the connections                              http://www.ebay.com/itm/DACT-Type-21-Stepped-Attenuator-Volume-Control-Hi-Fi-Grade-for-Amp-Preamp-/201654831210?var=&hash=item2ef390886amzeTLWK9sN8OHriv9TouXHQ


 
 Mikelap:
  
 Yes unfortunately I need the Volume Pot with the Little Dot MK III connector already soldered as I can't strip and solder those tiny wires with success.  Now my Little Dot MK III is sitting out of commission until I can find a new Volume Pot.
  
 Thanks again for all the help.


----------



## MIKELAP

dobigstuff said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > This is the pot i am using in my Littledot MK3.Choose  the 100K pot ,but they only sell the pot are you saying you also need the connector? if so  i dont know where to get that.. I resoldered the connections                              http://www.ebay.com/itm/DACT-Type-21-Stepped-Attenuator-Volume-Control-Hi-Fi-Grade-for-Amp-Preamp-/201654831210?var=&hash=item2ef390886amzeTLWK9sN8OHriv9TouXHQ
> ...


 
 They only sell the pot itself  there's no connectors that come already soldered i couldnt solder either at first try practicing with similar size wires or bring your amp to a tech he will solder those wires for you .One way or the other you have to be careful when handling the pot with the connector doesnt take much to break the wires off.i also found that out. Also the pot i gave you the link to is a stepped attenuator


----------



## dobigstuff

Got it.
  
 Thanks again


----------



## i luvmusic 2

If the wires are still long enough for the new POT just solder the harness to the new POT or if the wires become short for the replacement POT then you can clipped short the wires on the connector and solder a longer wires to the connector wires to your new POT.


----------



## CJG888

I also used that stepped attenuator. It brings a substantial improvement, and is probably better than any pot which will fit in the space available. I re-used the original wires, using a decent temperature-controlled soldering iron (carefully, using a fairly high temperature for a very short time, as if working on a headphone driver).


----------



## dobigstuff

i luvmusic 2:
  
 Thanks for the help.  My wires are now too short and difficult to solder.  I contacted Little Dot and they have a replacement Pot.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Your welcome!
  
 BTW that is not a real ATTENUATOR  it's nothing more than a regular pot with gears so it click.....
  
 This is one of the real attenuators(cheap schiit and it works better than my ALPS BLUE VELVET).


----------



## CJG888

The issue is finding something that will fit in the case! The DACT I have (from Taiwan, if I remember correctly) is a real attenuator, with a "dead spot" between each position. It seems to use SMD resistors though, rather that the full-size TTH components used in the upscale attenuators.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I don't think if you can fit a real attenuator on the MK III without hacking or replacing the case not much room to work within the stock case however i manage to install a ALPS BLUE VELVET into my MK III with a good results if you are willing to do it it can be done.PHOTOS ARE FOR REFFERENCE ONLY I'AM NOT RESPONSIBLE TO ANY DAMAGE TO YOUR UNIT.


----------



## CJG888

We should probably all just have started with a Mk IV....


----------



## dobigstuff

Scutey:
  
 Getting there.  Looking Good.  Just waiting for my new Volume Pot
 .
 It is killing me not being able to hear these.


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> Scutey:
> 
> Getting there.  Looking Good.  Just waiting for my new Volume Pot
> .
> It is killing me not being able to hear these.


 
 I feel your pain, just remember though, good things come to those who wait!, and yes it is looking good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Btw that's an interesting tube combo you have there, dare I ask how does it sound, or is it still waiting to be tried?.


----------



## dobigstuff

scutey said:


> I feel your pain, just remember though, good things come to those who wait!, and yes it is looking good!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 They are still waiting to be heard.
  
 This is the Tube set up before i damaged the Volume Pot:
  
 Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi for the Power Tubes. Telefunken 5654 for the Driver Tubes. (These sounded amazing)


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> They are still waiting to be heard.
> 
> This is the Tube set up before i damaged the Volume Pot:
> 
> Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi for the Power Tubes. Telefunken 5654 for the Driver Tubes. (These sounded amazingI will be interested to


 
 I will be interested to hear what you think of the Telefunkens as I have no experience with them.


----------



## dobigstuff

scutey said:


> I will be interested to hear what you think of the Telefunkens as I have no experience with them.


 
 Scutey:
  
 This Tube combo is what I was using:
  
*Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi* for the Power Tubes. *Telefunken 5654* for the Driver Tubes
  
 Yes this combo sounds amazing.  I wanted to upgrade the power tubes to the 6SN7.  (that's when I damaged the wires to the Volume Pot when removing the Brass Trim rings)


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> Scutey:
> 
> This Tube combo is what I was using:
> 
> ...


 

 ​The EH is a very good power tube, I have to say I like the 6SN7, I find it a bit more refined/detailed than 6n6 type, not a night and day difference but it's there, must have been a bummer when it was damaged but when it's fixed you'll probably enjoy it all the more!.
  
 I hope you enjoy those 6SN7s!.


----------



## Chris Lander

Hi everyone,
 This is my first post so please go easy on the noob! 
  
 So I've just bought a Little Dot Mk II and have several pairs of NOS tubes en-route (6N6P gold grid, Siemens 6AK5W, Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV).  The journey has begun and for now i'm stuck with the stock tubes.  I've seen a lot of talk of a "Siemens Blue Glass 6AK5W" but none of the sellers i've spoken to have heard of such a thing, only the regular Siemens 6AK5W.  Can someone help enlighten me?
  
Thanks!


----------



## Scutey

chris lander said:


> Hi everyone,
> This is my first post so please go easy on the noob!
> 
> So I've just bought a Little Dot Mk II and have several pairs of NOS tubes en-route (6N6P gold grid, Siemens 6AK5W, Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV).  The journey has begun and for now i'm stuck with the stock tubes.  I've seen a lot of talk of a "Siemens Blue Glass 6AK5W" but none of the sellers i've spoken to have heard of such a thing, only the regular Siemens 6AK5W.  Can someone help enlighten me?
> ...


 

 Hi Chris,
  
 Welcome to Head-Fi !., I'm afraid I can't enlighten you too much as I've not used them myslelf, and there is very little info out there, also they're very rare, I believe, if you are looking for another  tube then you can't go far wrong with the EI 6HM5, a Yugoslav military tube (EF95 setting), and are quite cheap on Ebay. The best thing you can do while you're waiting for your new tubes to arrive is to listen/burn in the stock tubes, then you will able to get a good reference point for the new ones when they arrive. One other thing, beware, tube rolling is dangerously addictive!. BTW love your avatar!, and enjoy your MKII !.


----------



## Chris Lander

scutey said:


> Hi Chris,
> 
> Welcome to Head-Fi !., I'm afraid I can't enlighten you too much as I've not used them myslelf, and there is very little info out there, also they're very rare, I believe, if you are looking for another  tube then you can't go far wrong with the EI 6HM5, a Yugoslav military tube (EF95 setting), and are quite cheap on Ebay. The best thing you can do while you're waiting for your new tubes to arrive is to listen/burn in the stock tubes, then you will able to get a good reference point for the new ones when they arrive. One other thing, beware, tube rolling is dangerously addictive!. BTW love your avatar!, and enjoy your MKII !.


 
 Thanks Skutey!
  
 That's the 2nd time the EI 6HM5 has been recommended to me.  How does it compare with others?  What makes it stand out?  Yes, I'm already burning in the stock tubes (which sound pretty flat compared to my friend's Sheer Audio amp I was using with 6N6P, HP tube combo) but it does seem to already be warming up with time.
  
 Thanks for the warning but i fear it's too late! 
  
 Next step is to find a good pair of headphones.  Don't laugh, but I've been using a pair of Beats Studio Wireless (but wired, of course) so I'm looking to graduate.  Open to suggestions.  I listened to some Senns and Audeze last night and definitely preferred the Senns (HD800s but the price is insane!).  The detail reproduced by those headphones is remarkable!
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## Scutey

chris lander said:


> Thanks Skutey!
> 
> That's the 2nd time the EI 6HM5 has been recommended to me.  How does it compare with others?  What makes it stand out?  Yes, I'm already burning in the stock tubes (which sound pretty flat compared to my friend's Sheer Audio amp I was using with 6N6P, HP tube combo) but it does seem to already be warming up with time.
> 
> ...


 

 ​The 6HM5 is a true triode which means very low distortion,low noise floor, more linear, very clear and detailed, they're also quite cheap, about £10 for a pair, and for the time being fairly plentiful.
  
 As for the Beats, hey we've all got to start somewhere!, as for other headphones well that's a whole nother  can of worms. Do you prefer a warmer sound, ie Sennheiser, or a brighter, sound, ie Beyerdynamic,, two very well regarded brands, also akg 7xxx, Fidelio x2's, Audio Technica, et al, best thing I can suggest is to have a good think about what sort of sound you like, and then do some research, reviews etc, there are loads of reviews on HF, if you can have test then that's best, (yeh those Senn hd800 are expensive), if you can't then there is a fair bit of trial and error, I've gone through loads of cans, personally I like the brighter Beyer sound, I have dt770 pro 80 ohm and dt990 edition 32 ohm and Fidelio x2's (bit warmer). But I'm sure you'll get there, and have some fun along the way!.


----------



## frogmeat69

chris lander said:


> Next step is to find a good pair of headphones.  Don't laugh, but I've been using a pair of Beats Studio Wireless (but wired, of course) so I'm looking to graduate.  Open to suggestions.  I listened to some Senns and Audeze last night and definitely preferred the Senns (HD800s but the price is insane!).  The detail reproduced by those headphones is remarkable!
> 
> Thanks again!


 
 The Sennheiser HD 650 play very nice with my Mk III, so do the Beyerdynamic T90.


----------



## Scutey

frogmeat69 said:


> The Sennheiser HD 650 play very nice with my Mk III, so do the Beyerdynamic T90.


 

 ​The T90 is a wonderfully open and detailed can.


----------



## Chris Lander

Thanks guys.  I really appreciated the detail in the HD800s (more precise than the HD800 and better in the midrange for me).  I think i'm looking for a fairly balanced frequency response but with excellent detail - you know that feeling that you're at a concert in the front row and can hear every little detail of the music?  That!  Looks like the T90 have been discontinued but replaced with the Beyerdynamic Amiron home.  Thoughts for pairing with the LD MkII?


----------



## Chris Lander

...oh and an expansive sound (some may say "soundstage").  I also want to wear them at work in an open office environment.  The Senns are so open that they're a little too noisy for my nearby team mates!


----------



## Scutey

chris lander said:


> ...oh and an expansive sound (some may say "soundstage").  I also want to wear them at work in an open office environment.  The Senns are so open that they're a little too noisy for my nearby team mates!


 

 Hi Chris,
  
 Problem is an expansive sound is best from a open back can, however all open cans leak sound, it's an inherent part of the design, but if you want to wear them in an open office without anyone else hearing them then it's closed back which equals narrower soundstage, if you really don't want anyone else to hear them then it really has to be a closed can, the Beyerdynamic DT770 PRO and the DT1770 PRO have good soundstage for a closed can, I've used both on my LD mkIII, they should sound pretty good on your mkII.


----------



## CJG888

Try the DT770-250 Pro with the Custom Cans damping mod. You won't be disappointed.


----------



## Scutey

http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide
  
 Chris, Forgot to mention this regarding tubes for your mkii , have you seen/read the, Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide ? . I found it to be absolutely invaluable, if you haven't hear is the link.


----------



## Share2Care

Good Evening Gents & Ladies!
  
 I am pleased to say that I am upgrading from my mighty Little Dot MK1 up to a rather bigger Little Dot MKIII !!
  
 With the LD MK1, I still have a few matched tubes that I am hoping I can keep such as match Mullards 8100 etc as in my mind I do believe these can be used as the Driving tube as the front two tubes? I may be completely off the reservation here so feel free to correct!
  
 I have no experience in sourcing the larger Power tubes. Would a few of you chip in with a selection of them? The real Triode tube mentioned a few posts ago sounds fantastic. Also, must they be matched? I am based in the UK so any Europe suppliers would be great, but I am happy to import from anywhere.
  
 To get a meaningful Chinese base line, I will burn them in and the MKIII at the same time and then introduce some tubes and then report back which I am hoping to be unbelievably excited about!
  
 Thanks for the advice!


----------



## Whelkie D

Here


share2care said:


> The real Triode tube mentioned a few posts ago sounds fantastic. Also, must they be matched? I am based in the UK so any Europe suppliers would be great, but I am happy to import from anywhere.


 
 Here's a link to the ones I think you mean.......................http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251765500700?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT.
 I bought some a while back from this seller and they arrived in the UK within a week. They're nearly as warm sounding as the Mullards and possibly slightly brighter. Oh, and when you switch on they light up like a christmas tree for the first few seconds then fade to a lovely red glow


----------



## MIKELAP

whelkie d said:


> Here
> 
> 
> share2care said:
> ...


 i bought tubes several times from langrex.co.uk in U.K. Nhttp://www.langrex.co.uk/ No need to match tubes, also russian 6N6P-ir (POWER TUBES)where well regarded here and in general about $25.00 /pair + no need to match them http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-6N6P-IR-ECC99-E182CC-Tubes-NOS-GOLD-GRID-Same-Date-Codes-/231887670518?hash=item35fd950cf6:g:0KcAAOSwpDdVgHda


----------



## gulakpi

Langrex is highly recommended!  They are in UK as well!


----------



## CJG888

+1 on Langrex. Watford Valves are also good.


----------



## mordy

Hi s2c,
If you want to go for top performance from the LD MKIII: Get the Ei 6HM5 driver tubes and for power tubes the least expensive 6SN7 tubes you can find + two adapters for them.
It is all plug and play. 
The 6SN7 will outshine any 6N6/6H30 family tubes.
The reality is that vacuum tube manufacturers have to stick to tubes that are readily available in quantities, but as an individual you can get better tubes for very reasonable prices.
Good luck!


----------



## MIKELAP

Usually tubes are cheaper on Langrex site rather than on Ebay


----------



## MIKELAP

On Massdrop Littledot MK3 SE Balanced price $499.99 US+shipping


----------



## CJG888

I hope it has a better volume pot than the regular Mk III!


----------



## PanzerIV

500$USD + 37$ Shipping just for this small amp is crazy, in a negative way obviously. I've paid 680$USD for a huge and powerful brand new (Rotel RB-1552 MKII) at a store, and actualy on Amazon.ca that MKIII is only 403$CAD so 300$USD. This drop is a total scam.


----------



## MIKELAP

​What doesnt help this amp is that it has the same old MK3- MK4 look but what counts I guess is whats inside we will see this eventually in reviews Personnally I dont need it .


----------



## Scutey

Langrex is a very good seller, bought several pairs of tubes from them, they usually arrive within 3 to 4 days at most.


----------



## Scutey

mikelap said:


> ​What doesnt help this amp is that it has the same old MK3- MK4 look but what counts I guess is whats inside we will see this eventually in reviews Personnally I dont need it .


 

 ​Unless there's a radical change internally I can't see a lot of uptake for it, not among mk3/mk4 owners. That I can see.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Put together a LD 1+ and MK III/MKVI then a XLR sockets voila you got your self a MK III ??.......


----------



## Share2Care

Big thanks for all the advice with what tubes to have a look at to begin my rolling journey with my upgraded MKIII! 

Just to check, the tubes I used on ny LD MKI such as a Mullard 8100, can this tyoe of tube be used in the front tubes section on the MKIII as 'driving' tubes?

I will guve Watford and Langrex a call, let them know I am here for guidance with an aim to ourchase a few options and had been sent by Head-Fi members who reccommend them. 



mordy said:


> Hi s2c,
> If you want to go for top performance from the LD MKIII: Get the Ei 6HM5 driver tubes and for power tubes the least expensive 6SN7 tubes you can find + two adapters for them.
> It is all plug and play.
> The 6SN7 will outshine any 6N6/6H30 family tubes.
> ...




Thanks for this post mordy. Would love to extend the amount of tubes that are often. 

Can you recommend the adapters and also a dew links to your preferred options as I would love to try it and obviously report back my thoughts and feelings so if you can link up decent adapter and the tubes for front and back. Back tubes are the Power tubes? Front tubes are the Driving tubes? Is that correct? I love bass and I love mids and I love clarity with open staging... Not asking for much lol. More tubes I get, the better the ideas I can make of my own.... Hopefully. 

Massive thanks to you all and any further advice is most appreciated. 

S2C


----------



## Scutey

share2care said:


> Big thanks for all the advice with what tubes to have a look at to begin my rolling journey with my upgraded MKIII!
> 
> Just to check, the tubes I used on ny LD MKI such as a Mullard 8100, can this tyoe of tube be used in the front tubes section on the MKIII as 'driving' tubes?
> 
> ...


 

 ​Yes Mullard M8100 (EF95 type)  can be used in a MKIII along with the EF92, and EF91 type (different jumper setting), at the front, as drivers, Power tubes at the back.


----------



## Scutey

If you want to use some tubes that need adapters these are the adapters you will need, top pic is the adapter for the 6SN7, (used as power tubes) these are better than the 6n6 type, the bottom pic is the adpter for C3G tubes (driver tubes), the best sounding tube you can get for the MKIII IMO, but expensive.


----------



## Chris Lander

frogmeat69 said:


> The Sennheiser HD 650 play very nice with my Mk III, so do the Beyerdynamic T90.


 
 Thanks.  Picked up the HD 650 on lightning deal off Amazon for $300 yesterday.  Will still looked for some good closed back (or semi-open back) headphones too.


----------



## Chris Lander

scutey said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide
> 
> Chris, Forgot to mention this regarding tubes for your mkii , have you seen/read the, Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide ? . I found it to be absolutely invaluable, if you haven't hear is the link.


 
 I have Scutey - thanks for pointing that out!! I used that extensively for picking out my tubes from Ebay


----------



## Scutey

chris lander said:


> Thanks.  Picked up the HD 650 on lightning deal off Amazon for $300 yesterday.  Will still looked for some good closed back (or semi-open back) headphones too.


 

 ​The Beyerdynamic DT1770 Pro is a very good closed back but is quite expensive.


----------



## gulakpi

I have to add that the 6SN7 (on adapters) really shines on my HD650.  It is silky smooth in the midrange and bass, and "look" more interesting as well!
  
 However, you can hear noticeable distortions when you use with  low-Z (<100 ohm) headphones.  In that respect, the 6N6P/6H30P family is a better all arounder.


----------



## colgateam

Just started listening to my new mk iii se.
Got to say it's a big improvement over the mk iii, more power, fuller sound with more bass and soundstage and addition of xlr is always a plus


----------



## Scutey

Nice set up!, perhaps you could give us a bit more info when you've had a chance to give it some more burn in?.I thing you may have a lot of us intigued! .


----------



## colgateam

I don't really believe in burn in to be honest haha.
Main difference between the two I noticed first of all is the increase in detail, whether it's because of the different series of tubes or because of the hybrid power increase. 
I immediately noticed new things in songs I had listened to hundreds of times with the mk iii and the solid state mk v.
Next was the increase of bass, it's not as much the amount of bass but the tightness of it, it punches hard but isn't bloated.
The overall tube sound of the mk iii remains and I've swapped in a few different tubes I'd picked up before I bought it and to be honest the stock tubes are almost as good as the Tesla's and voshkods I tried.

All in all I'd say it's a good upgrade over the mk iii if you want a solidly built hybrid amp with a super silent background.
If you already have and are happy with the mk iii (I have been using my mate's) then unless you really need the extra power or want the noise reduction of a balanced setup then the mk iii is perfectly good enough for most.
But if you are wanting to satisfy the upgrade itch then it's definitely an amp I recommend although the series of tubes it uses are a lot more expensive than the mk iii but then again I never really bought into the 'high-end' tube business anway but that's another story.


----------



## Share2Care

scutey said:


> If you want to use some tubes that need adapters these are the adapters you will need, top pic is the adapter for the 6SN7, (used as power tubes) these are better than the 6n6 type, the bottom pic is the adpter for C3G tubes (driver tubes), the best sounding tube you can get for the MKIII IMO, but expensive.




Thank you very much indeed for those posts Scutey. I also am grateful for you taking the time to do it. Just what I needed  

Will try to source the extensions online and when I have my MKIII all in place and am happy, can I drop you a PM in regards to the tubes? 

Much Appreciated!


----------



## Scutey

Share2Care. Yes of course you can no problem!, Head-Fi is all about sharing our experience and info, I've had a lot of help myself on here so it's only fair to do the same!, i'm out at the mo but when i get back i'll post some links to adapters for you.


----------



## Scutey

colgateam said:


> I don't really believe in burn in to be honest haha.
> Main difference between the two I noticed first of all is the increase in detail, whether it's because of the different series of tubes or because of the hybrid power increase.
> I immediately noticed new things in songs I had listened to hundreds of times with the mk iii and the solid state mk v.
> Next was the increase of bass, it's not as much the amount of bass but the tightness of it, it punches hard but isn't bloated.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the input colgateam, sounds like the sort of sound I like, think I will stick with my mkiii but if it ever goes pop I may give the mkiii se serious consideration.


----------



## Chris Lander

My HD 650 headphones arrived tonight and I'm looking forward to taking them for a spin at work tomorrow (my LD mk2 is on my desk).  I'm still on the lookout for a pair of semi-open or closed back headphones for work so I avoid annoying my neighbours but we'll see how they react to the HD 650   Beginning to think I should start thinking about a second setup for home for the open back headphones...


----------



## dobigstuff

chris lander said:


> My HD 650 headphones arrived tonight and I'm looking forward to taking them for a spin at work tomorrow (my LD mk2 is on my desk).  I'm still on the lookout for a pair of semi-open or closed back headphones for work so I avoid annoying my neighbours but we'll see how they react to the HD 650   Beginning to think I should start thinking about a second setup for home for the open back headphones...


 
 Chris:
  
 I hate to do this to you (and anyone else looking for a closed back Headphone)  
  
 Save your money,,,,,,,,One of the best closed back headphones out there right now for the money.....Mr. Speakers Aeon now $699.99 (sorry)  I heard these at Can Jam.  They Blew me away.  
  
 One other Closed back that will easily compare to any of the Bigger Dogs are the ZMF Eikons $1,299.00 (double sorry)  I also heard these at Can Jam as well and was able to go back and forth with the ZMF Eikons and the $4,000 Utopias and you were not missing much at all with the Eikons.  That is not taking anything away from the Utopias just stating how good the Eikons were.
  
 By the way I am saving for one of the two listed above as well.
  
 Happy Listening


----------



## audiodood

Hiya everybody!
  
 Long time lurker but first time poster here... Been following this Little Dot Tube Rolling thread for awhile now and THANK YOU all for posting such useful information!
  
 I've taken my stock Little Dot MkIII and have already rolled through various "stock" power and driver tubes, but lately have progressed onto the C3Gs as Driver tubes and was looking to step into 6SN7's as Power Tubes.... but i've hit a snag today and need some guidance.
  
 Currently i'm running with the stock brass rings removed and the following tubes/adapters (no spacers):
 1) Driver Tubes - Siemens C3Gs with C3G (top) to 6AK7 (bottom) adapters
 2) Power Tubes - EH 6H30Pi (no adapters)
  
 I'm trying to switch my power Tubes to 6SN7 using:
 1) 6SN7 (top) to 12AU7 (bottom) adapters (w/ proper 6.3V limitations) and a set of CBS 6NS7 tubes... but its not working (no audio)
  
 With the above setup.... I can't get my Little Dot to play audio/power on the rear Power tubes....
 I'm worried i've misunderstood the Power Tube adapter.... Should I have ordered a ECC88 to 6SN7 adapter?
 Or perhaps is there a way that I could re-pin/re-solder the 6SN7 to 12AU7 adapters to work for my new tubes properly?
  
 I've switched back to my EH "stock" power tubes and removed the adapters for now. There has been no damage but I don't want to proceed with fact checking with the Forum Experts here first.  Please assist and thank you!


----------



## MIKELAP

audiodood said:


> Hiya everybody!
> 
> Long time lurker but first time poster here... Been following this Little Dot Tube Rolling thread for awhile now and THANK YOU all for posting such useful information!
> 
> ...


 
 The adapters i am using are  6SN7 to 6CG7 You are not using the correct adapters here's a link to the correct adapters                                                                                                  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-6CG7-6FQ7-tube-converter-adapter-/201115946751?hash=item2ed371ceff:g:J2oAAOSwQjNW-kSg


----------



## MIKELAP

audiodood said:


> Hiya everybody!
> 
> Long time lurker but first time poster here... Been following this Little Dot Tube Rolling thread for awhile now and THANK YOU all for posting such useful information!
> 
> ...


 
 Also if im not mistaken you can use the 6SN7 to ECC88 adapters


----------



## audiodood

Thank you for the quick response MIKELAP!
  
 Just to confirm before I order these different Power Tube adapters, but would these work as well for my 6SN7's to stock Little Dot Mkiii Power Tube location?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1piece-Gold-plated-6SN7-6N8P-TO-6DJ8-ECC88-6922-6N6-ECC85-6N11-tube-adapter-/201506917187?hash=item2eeabf8b43:g:KecAAOSwqYBWngU7
  
 This is the same Chinese vendor i've been working with and i've been very happy with his quality and craftsmanship so far.
 Additionally.... Since i removed my brass rings fully I won't need these B9A and B7G socket savers/spacers.
 (If ANYONE on HeadFi is interested in these 4x tube socket savers/spacers please let me know.... I'd let them go for a good price here if someone is in need vs. waiting to ship them back to China and waiting....)
  
 Thanks so much again and sorry for not officially joining up/posting sooner than this! Y'all have been great leading the pack on these mods!


----------



## audiodood

EDITED: I should have been patient on the above external link posting.... Man you moderators are FAST responding here!  original secondary post below:

 Thanks MikeLap!!
  
 I'm unable to place external links in my posts since i'm a new member today, so i'm going to cheat:
  
 Mind heading over to eBay to check me on these adapters?
 Search for "6sn7 to ecc88 adapter" and the first one that pops up (by the Seller known as TubeMalls) is the pair i'm thinking about ordering tonight.
 Auction header is "1piece*Gold plated 6SN7 6N8P TO 6DJ8 ECC88 6922 6N6 ECC85 6N11 tube adapter" and currently at $14.90 per adapter.
  
 I just want to verify that these should work for placing 6SN7 tubes into the stock Power Tube sockets on my LD MkIII.
 Thanks so much for the quick responses as well!
  
 Y'all rock for leading the way for these LD mods and i'm glad I finally signed up!
 Stepping up to the C3Gs has been a game-changer on the Driver tubes echoing many members feedback that I've read here as well.


----------



## MIKELAP

audiodood said:


> Thank you for the quick response MIKELAP!
> 
> Just to confirm before I order these different Power Tube adapters, but would these work as well for my 6SN7's to stock Little Dot Mkiii Power Tube location?
> 
> ...


 
 These are the ones i would buy (link)they are cmc type sockets way better quality then the ones on your link. What i would to before you order is shoot a pm to seller just to make but i would say they are good .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-CMC-ceramic-sock-/191226140400?hash=item2c85f756f0:g:hNwAAOSw6oBXEfjG


----------



## kornel221

Hi everybody.

I have a little big problem with my little dot mk3 , the wire connections to the volume pot are broken now and I could try to reattach them but dont really know which cable goes where.

Would anyone be able to post a picture of how they should be connected please ?



Many thanks !


----------



## MIKELAP

kornel221 said:


> Hi everybody.
> 
> I have a little big problem with my little dot mk3 , the wire connections to the volume pot are broken now and I could try to reattach them but dont really know which cable goes where.
> 
> ...


 
      Try and follow the wires


----------



## MIKELAP

mikelap said:


> kornel221 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi everybody.
> ...


----------



## dobigstuff

kornel221 said:


> Hi everybody.
> 
> I have a little big problem with my little dot mk3 , the wire connections to the volume pot are broken now and I could try to reattach them but dont really know which cable goes where.
> 
> ...


 
 Kornel221:
  
 I had the same problem.  I just could not strip toset tiny wires and successfully solder.  I simply contacted David at Little Dot (little.tube@gmail.com)  It does take a while for him to respond. But the  new Volume Pot with Wire and connector and Knob is $77.00 USD.  (By the way I am still waiting for delivery)
  
 I hope this helps.  MIKELAP is just awesome how he always goes out of his way to show clear photos and step by step procedures.  (Thanks Mike)


----------



## MIKELAP

dobigstuff said:


> kornel221 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi everybody.
> ...


 
 Always happy to help when i can ive posted before this very useful things to check out on the LITTLEDOT TUBE ROLLING GUIDE by the way lots more information on that thread and all your questions will be answered when using SEARCH FUNCTION atop the page             http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/10860#post_13339641


----------



## dobigstuff

scutey said:


> Share2Care. Yes of course you can no problem!, Head-Fi is all about sharing our experience and info, I've had a lot of help myself on here so it's only fair to do the same!, i'm out at the mo but when i get back i'll post some links to adapters for you.


 
 Scutey:
  
 Do you know if the C3G to 6AK5 Adapters and the C3G Tubes work in the Little Dot 1+?

  
 Thanks


----------



## MIKELAP

dobigstuff said:


> scutey said:
> 
> 
> > Share2Care. Yes of course you can no problem!, Head-Fi is all about sharing our experience and info, I've had a lot of help myself on here so it's only fair to do the same!, i'm out at the mo but when i get back i'll post some links to adapters for you.
> ...


 
 According page 585 post #8766  they do work in the Littledot 1+                              http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/8760


----------



## dobigstuff

Thanks.  
  
 Also thank you for the "Important Stuff on Little Dot" quick reverence guide


----------



## kornel221

Thank you very much for all yoyr help .

I will try to resolder it as shown in the pitures if it doesnymt work will contact david from littledot.

Thanks a lot!


----------



## MIKELAP

kornel221 said:


> Thank you very much for all yoyr help .
> 
> I will try to resolder it as shown in the pitures if it doesnymt work will contact david from littledot.
> 
> Thanks a lot!


 
 The only thing you have to do before doing the job is practice soldering other small wires in similar positions  thats what i did because i had no experience doing this you just gotta take the time to gain experience doing it .


----------



## Brumas7

dobigstuff said:


> Scutey:
> 
> Do you know if the C3G to 6AK5 Adapters and the C3G Tubes work in the Little Dot 1+?
> 
> ...


 
 Anyone knows where to get the black socket saver/extender shown for the LD III driver tubes? I have been looking high and low and could not find the right ones for LDIII. I hope not to have to remove the brass rings. Appreciate it for any information.


----------



## dobigstuff

Brumas7:
  
 I was unsuccessful getting the saver/extenders.  I just removed all my Trim Rings from the Little Dot 1+ and the Little Dot MK III.
  
 Below is where I purchased the adapters:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/201330219735?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT  just copy and paste.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Brumas7

Hi dobigstuff,
 Thanks for the link to the c3g adapters.
 I already got them after following with interest the discussions in these LDIII forums about the ultimate tube rolling options for LDIII. I was all ready to be thrilled by it..hahaha. Until I found I was short of these extenders, and there the c3g tubes with their adapters having arrived were staring at me. So I packed them away until I could find the right extenders or resort to cutting the rings, which I hope as a last resort (when I could not stand not hearing how c3g sound like any longer.. lol).


----------



## dobigstuff

brumas7 said:


> Anyone knows where to get the black socket saver/extender shown for the LD III driver tubes? I have been looking high and low and could not find the right ones for LDIII. I hope not to have to remove the brass rings. Appreciate it for any information.


 
 Brumas7:
  
 I found those 6AK5 Socket Savers (in case you don't want to remove the Brass Trim Rings)
  
 See Link:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2PC-7pin-tube-tester-saver-for-EC92-6AK5-6C4-6AU6-6X4-/201811126131?hash=item2efce16773:g:cBsAAOSw3ydVlkJd


----------



## Scutey

Hi there Brumas7.
  
 Here's another link for 6AK5 socket savers, now you have a choice!, if you've not heard the c3g you are in for a treat!, they really are the pinnacle of what you can get out of the MK III. Just got a NOS  pair of Valvo c3g's a couple days ago and burning them in now, this is what it will look like.
  
 https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/213863594/vacuum-tube-test-socket-for-tube-rolling?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=socket saver&ref=sr_gallery_1


----------



## frogmeat69

scutey said:


> Hi there Brumas7.
> 
> Here's another link for 6AK5 socket savers, now you have a choice!, if you've not heard the c3g you are in for a treat!, they really are the pinnacle of what you can get out of the MK III. Just got a NOS  pair of Valvo c3g's a couple days ago and burning them in now, this is what it will look like.
> 
> https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/213863594/vacuum-tube-test-socket-for-tube-rolling?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=socket saver&ref=sr_gallery_1


 

 For the life of me I couldn't remember the name of this store on Etsy, that's where I got mine from, thanks for reminding me, and sharing with other people!!


----------



## Scutey

frogmeat69 said:


> For the life of me I couldn't remember the name of this store on Etsy, that's where I got mine from, thanks for reminding me, and sharing with other people!!


 

 ​No problem!, the reason it stuck in my mind was because of the name LeedsRadio, I just (wrongly!) assumed they were based somewhere near, or in, the English city of Leeds, I was a bit surprised when I found out it was NYC !.
  
 Btw those socket savers are excellent!.


----------



## frogmeat69

scutey said:


> ​No problem!, the reason it stuck in my mind was because of the name LeedsRadio, I just (wrongly!) assumed they were based somewhere near, or in, the English city of Leeds, I was a bit surprised when I found out it was NYC !.
> 
> Btw those socket savers are excellent!.


 

 Yes they are. If I remember correctly, he had socket savers for the 9 pin sockets for the power tubes, too. No need to remove the rings.


----------



## Scutey

frogmeat69 said:


> Yes they are. If I remember correctly, he had socket savers for the 9 pin sockets for the power tubes, too. No need to remove the rings.


 

 ​I think he did, just had a check of his page, he doesn't seem to be selling them anymore, just the 7 pin.


----------



## MIKELAP

If anybody is looking for  pair of 9 pin socket savers pm me i have a pair that i never used as i cut the rings off .


----------



## Brumas7

dobigstuff said:


> Brumas7:
> 
> I found those 6AK5 Socket Savers (in case you don't want to remove the Brass Trim Rings)
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, dobigstuff for the link. I bought those from the seller already but the diameter of the adapter is a tad too big to fit into the LDIII with the brass ring on. Appreciate your response.
  
  


scutey said:


> Hi there Brumas7.
> 
> Here's another link for 6AK5 socket savers, now you have a choice!, if you've not heard the c3g you are in for a treat!, they really are the pinnacle of what you can get out of the MK III. Just got a NOS  pair of Valvo c3g's a couple days ago and burning them in now, this is what it will look like.
> 
> https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/213863594/vacuum-tube-test-socket-for-tube-rolling?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=socket saver&ref=sr_gallery_1


 
 Thanks Scutey. From the website it is stated that the outside diameter of the adapter is 18.26mm, which will fit into the LDIII driver socket. This is what I was looking for! Appreciate your help.


----------



## Brumas7

Ohh, Etsy does not ship the item to my country in Asia. I think I will try to have a seller in China customize an adapter.


----------



## Scutey

brumas7 said:


> Ohh, Etsy does not ship the item to my country in Asia. I think I will try to have a seller in China customize an adapter.


 

 ​Sorry about that, I should have checked, at least you have the first option, they should do the job just fine,


----------



## Brumas7

No worries. Thanks trying to help. Trying to get the pieces in place to enjoy that elusive aural bliss is part of the fun for me, I guess.


----------



## Scutey

brumas7 said:


> No worries. Thanks trying to help. Trying to get the pieces in place to enjoy that elusive aural bliss is part of the fun for me, I guess.


 

 ​Good things come to those who wait!. You're in for a treat with those C3G's.


----------



## Marlowe

I'm a tube amp neophyte and am planning to buy a MK III in the near future. I've noticed here (and in discussion of other amps) a lot of praise for Mullard 8100 driver tubes. Little Dot will replace the stock driver tubes with  M8100/CV4010 tubes for $45 (I'm sure they are available cheaper elsewhere, but the convenience would be worth a few bucks). Is this the same tube as a Mullard 8100 and would this be a worthwhile switch? I am getting the amp to pair with Sennheiser HD700s (one of my goals would be getting a bit more bass).


----------



## MIKELAP

marlowe said:


> I'm a tube amp neophyte and am planning to buy a MK III in the near future. I've noticed here (and in discussion of other amps) a lot of praise for Mullard 8100 driver tubes. Little Dot will replace the stock driver tubes with  M8100/CV4010 tubes for $45 (I'm sure they are available cheaper elsewhere, but the convenience would be worth a few bucks). Is this the same tube as a Mullard 8100 and would this be a worthwhile switch? I am getting the amp to pair with Sennheiser HD700s (one of my goals would be getting a bit more bass).


 
 i have bought several times from this seller from England and his prices are about the norm or cheaper as for shipping to Montreal it takes around 7 days .http://www.langrex.co.uk/   and his prices are usually cheaper on his site rather than on Ebay .http://www.ebay.com/itm/M8100-CV4010-5654-MULLARD-VINTAGE-MATCHED-PAIR-VALVE-TUBES-RING-GETTER-/311525214708?hash=item48885989f4:g:C9UAAOSwm8VUtP82


----------



## Jaworrr

Question about tubes burn-in proces. Is it ok to just turn on amp? Or should be music play as well?


----------



## dobigstuff

scutey said:


> ​Good things come to those who wait!. You're in for a treat with those C3G's.


 
 Scutey:
  
 Finally back in action (See Below).  (I did wait about a month for the replacement Volume Pot)  The Bass is unreal.  Still gotta break em in.  Thanks to You, Mikelap and others for the tips and help on Tube Rolling.  (I am awaiting the adapters for the C3G's)


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> Scutey:
> 
> Finally back in action (See Below).  (I did wait about a month for the replacement Volume Pot)  The Bass is unreal.  Still gotta break em in.  Thanks to You, Mikelap and others for the tips and help on Tube Rolling.  (I am awaiting the adapters for the C3G's)


 
 dobigstuff
  
 You're welcome!, Good to hear you're back in business!. if you think the bass is good wait till you get those C3G's in combo with the 6SN7's, great pic btw!.


----------



## frogmeat69

dobigstuff said:


> Scutey:
> 
> Finally back in action (See Below).  (I did wait about a month for the replacement Volume Pot)  The Bass is unreal.  Still gotta break em in.  Thanks to You, Mikelap and others for the tips and help on Tube Rolling.  (I am awaiting the adapters for the C3G's)


 
 What 6SN7's are those? They NOS or new Russian made?


----------



## dobigstuff

Frogmeat69:
  
 These 6SN7's are the newer Russian Tung-Sol.  These are all I have right now.  I want to get the NOS Tung-Sol that are Made in USA or I have my eye on those PS Vane.


----------



## frogmeat69

dobigstuff said:


> Frogmeat69:
> 
> These 6SN7's are the newer Russian Tung-Sol.  These are all I have right now.  I want to get the NOS Tung-Sol that are Made in USA or I have my eye on those PS Vane.


 

 Cool, I haven't really looked into getting adapters for the power tubes since the old stock tubes are usually pricey.
  Been running 6N6P-IR tubes for about a year, like them a lot, but if those new style tubes are as good or close, maybe I should get some adapters?


----------



## dobigstuff

Frogmeat69:
  
 See link below for 6SN7 Adapters.  These are the good ones.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/201115946751?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I also ordered the adapters for the Driver Tubes to utilize the C3G Tubes.


----------



## dobigstuff

Frogmeat69:
  
 See link below for the C3G Adapters
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/201330219735?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
  
 (I have not received my adapters yet)  Many say the C3G will blow you away.  I can't wait to try them.


----------



## Scutey

Frogmeat69
  
 There are more options with the 6SN7 and more plentiful, but can get very expensive with the NOS stuff, some thing like the Russian 6N8S (equivalent to 6SN7) are fairly cheap, another maybe the RCA 6SN7GT. Here is a link to the sort of thing you can get below.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6SN7-6N8S-Foton-Tubes-1956-XII-Same-Date-Code-New-Old-Stock-/201762280608?hash=item2ef9f814a0:g:cnMAAOxyf~hRzaET


----------



## dobigstuff

Scutey:
  
 Finally received my Adapters.  Just breaking everything in.


----------



## dobigstuff

Check out the Little Guy........


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> Scutey:
> 
> Finally received my Adapters.  Just breaking everything in.


 
  


dobigstuff said:


> Check out the Little Guy........


 

 ​Good to hear you've got your adapters, will be interested to hear what you think, hope you enjoy em ! .
 Btw, you got some nice gear there!.


----------



## dobigstuff

Thanks!!


----------



## dobigstuff

scutey said:


> ​Good to hear you've got your adapters, will be interested to hear what you think, hope you enjoy em ! .
> Btw, you got some nice gear there!.


 
 Scutey:
  
 Unreal!!  Bass is tight.  Everything is warm not too bright.  (Only been listening for an hour or so)  Everything sounds so good.  I am hearing things that I just didn't pick up on before.
  
 They gotta break in.  I feel I can even get better with different 6SN7's
  
 Thanks for those tips.


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> Scutey:
> 
> Unreal!!  Bass is tight.  Everything is warm not too bright.  (Only been listening for an hour or so)  Everything sounds so good.  I am hearing things that I just didn't pick up on before.
> 
> ...


 

 They will get better!.


----------



## dobigstuff

Scutey:
  
 I am checking out these Sylvania 6SN7 GTB's.  Just got them today.  So far they sound warm, not too bright.  Tight Bass.  Gotta break them in.  I have some RCA's on the way as well.


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> Scutey:
> 
> I am checking out these Sylvania 6SN7 GTB's.  Just got them today.  So far they sound warm, not too bright.  Tight Bass.  Gotta break them in.  I have some RCA's on the way as well.


 
 That's interesting, as I have my eye on some of those too, what are they like compared to the Tung Sol's?.


----------



## dobigstuff

scutey said:


> That's interesting, as I have my eye on some of those too, what are they like compared to the Tung Sol's?.


 
 So far they seem to have tighter Bass and all music is warm and easy to listen to.  Keep in mind the Tung-Sol's I had were the Russian re-issues not the NOS made in USA.
  
 For some reason it will not let me post the link.
 The ebay Seller is ibismachine


----------



## i luvmusic 2

dobigstuff said:


>


 
 It's my first time to see a SYLVANIA with that type of letterings pictured above.


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> So far they seem to have tighter Bass and all music is warm and easy to listen to.  Keep in mind the Tung-Sol's I had were the Russian re-issues not the NOS made in USA.
> 
> For some reason it will not let me post the link.
> The ebay Seller is ibismachine


 

 ​Thanks for that!.


----------



## Scutey

i luvmusic 2 said:


> It's my first time to see a SYLVANIA with that type of letterings pictured above.


 

 ​Just missed out on an ebay auction for a pair of the exact same Sylvanias.


----------



## dobigstuff

scutey said:


> ​Just missed out on an ebay auction for a pair of the exact same Sylvanias.


 
 Try These:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-Matching-Pair-6SN7GTB-Vacuum-Tubes-100-106-Gm-and-100-107-Gm/272577339771?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D7d161d626a7a46599a491ce47208dcbf%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D281909393084%26clkid%3D3793356548171930951&_qi=RTM2247626


----------



## dobigstuff

i luvmusic 2 said:


> It's my first time to see a SYLVANIA with that type of letterings pictured above.


 
 What made me purchase these was the Test Results ibismachine had on the tubes.


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> Try These:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-Matching-Pair-6SN7GTB-Vacuum-Tubes-100-106-Gm-and-100-107-Gm/272577339771?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D7d161d626a7a46599a491ce47208dcbf%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D281909393084%26clkid%3D3793356548171930951&_qi=RTM2247626


 

 ​dobigstuff,
  
 Thanks for the link, appreciate it, they are a nice pair of tubes, unfortunately he doesn't ship to the UK.


----------



## dobigstuff

scutey said:


> ​dobigstuff,
> 
> Thanks for the link, appreciate it, they are a nice pair of tubes, unfortunately he doesn't ship to the UK.


 
 Scutey:
  
 These NOS RCA's are even better:


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> Scutey:
> 
> These NOS RCA's are even better:


 
 Nice pic!. Are those the GT version?. How do they sound compared to the Syls?.


----------



## dobigstuff

scutey said:


> Nice pic!. Are those the GT version?. How do they sound compared to the Syls?.


 
 Thanks!  Yes they are GTB.  They sound so warm.  Deep Tight Bass.  No edge or brightness with the highs.  This is only listening for the first hour or so.


----------



## Scutey

Just bought some Ken-Rad JAN-CKR 6SN7GT, been after a pair of these for months, never thought i'd be able to afford them as they always go for a lot of money so when I saw a pair last night at an affordable price I jumped at the chance, they are used and a bit dirty but I just had to go for them, I just hope i'm not disappointed!.


----------



## MIKELAP

If anybody is interested in purchasing  LITTLEDOT COMPATIBLE tubes i have some for sale on the FOR SALE FORUM here's the link .6HM5,8100,6AK5,6AU6 with adapters ects. Thank you                                                                               http://www.head-fi.org/t/840068/tubes-compatible-with-littledot-1-mk2-mk3-mk4-mk4se-for-sale


----------



## dobigstuff (Apr 30, 2017)

Scutey said:


> Just bought some Ken-Rad JAN-CKR 6SN7GT, been after a pair of these for months, never thought i'd be able to afford them as they always go for a lot of money so when I saw a pair last night at an affordable price I jumped at the chance, they are used and a bit dirty but I just had to go for them, I just hope i'm not disappointed!.


Scutey:

I went back to the Sylvania NOS 6SN7's  They just seem so smooth.  I am waiting for a NOS USA Pair of Tung-Sol.


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> Scutey:
> 
> I went back to the Sylvania NOS 6SN7's  They just seem so smooth.  I am waiting for a NOS USA Pair of Tung-Sol.


I'm still after another pair of Syls,  missed out on yet another ebay auction, the Tung Sol's should be good would be interested to hear what you think of them, btw the Ken Rads are fantastic, fast, very detailed excellent soundstage, imaging and plenty of slam but they are on the cool side, will post a pic when I fix my broken cell phone.


----------



## dobigstuff

Scutey said:


> I'm still after another pair of Syls,  missed out on yet another ebay auction, the Tung Sol's should be good would be interested to hear what you think of them, btw the Ken Rads are fantastic, fast, very detailed excellent soundstage, imaging and plenty of slam but they are on the cool side, will post a pic when I fix my broken cell phone.



Just received the NOS Tung-Sol's today.  Initial reactions..........Wider soundstage, and plenty of slam and still warm.  Gotta break em in.  But I think I have the right combo now.  Gain: 5


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> Just received the NOS Tung-Sol's today.  Initial reactions..........Wider soundstage, and plenty of slam and still warm.  Gotta break em in.  But I think I have the right combo now.  Gain: 5


Are those GTB tall bottles ?.


----------



## dobigstuff

Scutey said:


> Are those GTB tall bottles ?.



Yes.  So far they sound great.


----------



## Scutey

dobigstuff said:


> Yes.  So far they sound great.


 You're making me jealous! lol


----------



## sahmen

I am sure that this has been addressed before, so bear with me...  How much more powerful id the Little Dot Mk III SE version than the non SE version?  Is the SE version capable of driving hard-to drive low sensitivity planars, such as the He-6?


----------



## colgateam

sahmen said:


> I am sure that this has been addressed before, so bear with me...  How much more powerful id the Little Dot Mk III SE version than the non SE version?  Is the SE version capable of driving hard-to drive low sensitivity planars, such as the He-6?



350mW vs 2.5W 

SE will drive anything


----------



## dobigstuff

RogerB said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Bozz_Keren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...



RogerB:

Here is what I have finally settled on for my Little Dot MK III:





USA NOS Tung-Sol Tall Bottle 6SN7 Power Tubes w/ Adapters and Siemens C3G Driver Tubes w/ Adapters.  Gain is 5.  This setup has powerful Bass yet smooth Mids and the highs are not bright.
Welcome to the world of Rolling.


----------



## Whelkie D

karthur said:


> Thanks to this great forum and the detailed reviews I am now broke, but also now the proud owner of a Little Dot MK III and a whole lot a tubes/valves...
> 
> Preliminary review, this is based on the tubes being burned-in for no more than a few hours.
> 
> ...


 
Have to agree about the Osrams - the warmest sounding so far. As you say, this is what the tube sound
 is really all about.


----------



## willne1

I have one driver tube that glows on the top and one that glows on the bottom and not the top. Does anyone know if this is normal? It seems to be sounding fine.


----------



## mordy

Hi w1,
Perfectly normal - it depends on how the the pieces were put together or the construction inside the tube. Sometimes an identical  pair shows different amount of glow in each tube but all this does not mean anything as long as the tube sounds good.


----------



## willne1

Thank you mordy


----------



## crashtest33

Hi all.
Excited to see this amp on Massdrop at the moment.
Has anyone used these with the LCD-2, 3 or 4 (Fazor original)?


----------



## Andrew LB (Feb 22, 2019)

Now that i'm almost done replacing/upgrading all the power and signal capacitors on the MKIII, i've also been modding the face plate to accommodate an Alps RK271 pot I picked up from a reputable supplier (not ebay). For those of you who have done the mod, I will be required to cut and remove some material from the MKIII's PCB correct? Fitting the pot to the faceplate was a bit tricky. Enlarging the hole was simple, but i also had to put the knob in my lathe and turn out the hole for the shaft so the knob would sit closer to the faceplate. I also had to take a dremel and carefully shave down the height of the raised lip on the pot becuase it was higher than the MKIII's face plate is thick, causing it to be loose. Its rock solid now and the knob doesn't have a gap between it and the faceplate like i saw earlier in this thread. Now all thats left is to solder up the harness and tomorrow my tubes as well as all the 16v 220uf Panasonic FR series caps show up. I'll be able to test it out soon after.

edit\

Ha! I was just going through some boxes and came across a pair of tubes that say 6Ж1П-ЕВ with the sideways rocket symbol above it indicating they are Voshkod 6Zh1P-EV tubes which if i recall correctly are pretty good tubes for the MKIII.


----------



## Andrew LB

Well the amp is almost ready to power up. So far i've installed the following:

3x 330uf 250v caps B43540E2337M EPCOS (TDK)

2x 220uf 200v caps UCY2D221MHD6 NICHICON

2x 0.68uf 250v film caps ECQ-E2684KB PANASONIC

2x 0.047uf 275v interference suppression 2x caps 10% tolerance ECQ-U2A473KL PANASONIC

4x 0.22uf 250v film caps 2% tolerance F461BC224G250C KEMET CORPORATION

1x RK27112A00AK ALPS ALPINE CO., LTD

The only caps i have yet to install are the 4x small electrolytic 16v 220uf caps that are located along the signal path (please correct me if thats incorrect). The ones that came on the board are Nippon Chemi-Com and i had ordered some Panasonic FR series caps to replace them but after reading a thread on diyaudio regarding them and how they are super low ESR caps designed for swtichign power supplies, and how using them may ruin high frequencies if used in the signal path, i may just try things as they are and order some Nichicon FG (fine gold) caps and not have to worry about it. Only a few bucks for the 4 of them. I should also get a replacement for that solo (where the PCB shows 2x caps) cap rated at 33uf 250v thats smack in the middle of the board at the same time. 

Also, today some tubes arrived. 2x 6N6P platinum grade NOS tubes and 2x GE JAN 5654w platinum NOS tubes, both from Riverside Audio. Yeah, i spent too much on them but i wanted to make sure that i had properly working tubes with little to no variation since i was going to recap the amp and thought it might be best to take the tubes out of the equation if i have to troubleshoot. 

Here is the PC with almost all new caps. I will be cleaning all the flux marks, etc once i get everything finished. 



And here is how well the knob fits with the alps pot installed. (still has back cover on, which will be removed so it fits)


----------



## gkprabhu

Hello everyone. Just ordered a LD MkIII and would appreciate advice on tube rolling. I know that there are a lot of posts here, just don't want to go through every single one of them. I would like to get some tubes that are better than the stock ones.  Please recommend some tubes that sound really good and are not priced too dearly. I am new to this tube rolling thing, so please help me out. I appreciate any help. 

Thank you 
Gopal


----------



## gkprabhu

gkprabhu said:


> Hello everyone. Just ordered a LD MkIII and would appreciate advice on tube rolling. I know that there are a lot of posts here, just don't want to go through every single one of them. I would like to get some tubes that are better than the stock ones.  Please recommend some tubes that sound really good and are not priced too dearly. I am new to this tube rolling thing, so please help me out. I appreciate any help.
> 
> Thank you
> Gopal




Could someone be kind enough to help me out ?  I would appreciate it.  

Thank you


----------



## mordy

These are considered among the best drivers for the LD MKIII:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EI-6HM5-EC...m5d4fdb1092:g:prcAAOSwDk5UEhHk&frcectupt=true
You can start with these - not expensive. Then for power tubes buy a pair of inexpensive 6SN7 tubes and a pair of adapters for the LD MKIII and you are set.
Good luck!


----------



## Whelkie D (Apr 11, 2019)

Try here.....................https://www.head-fi.org/threads/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide.563884/


----------



## mordy

Whelkie D said:


> Try here.....................https://www.head-fi.org/threads/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide.563884/


With all due respect, this guide was published a number of years ago, and as time progressed the forum members added much more information about tube rolling. IMHO the the LD MKIII reaches a very high level of performance with the Ei 6HM5 tubes and substituting the 6N6P tubes for 6SN7 tubes (plug and play with adapters).  In addition, these are not expensive tubes. But, as always, YMMV...
In addition, these tubes are not expensive.


----------



## willne1

mordy said:


> These are considered among the best drivers for the LD MKIII:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/EI-6HM5-EC...m5d4fdb1092:g:prcAAOSwDk5UEhHk&frcectupt=true
> You can start with these - not expensive. Then for power tubes buy a pair of inexpensive 6SN7 tubes and a pair of adapters for the LD MKIII and you are set.
> Good luck!


I'll go along with that..Although I don't have anywhere near as much experience as mordy, I do have experience with these tubes and they are the ones I use 75% of the time and the other 25% of the time I use the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV tubes. I'm still using the stock power tubes and I have no complaints so far. IMO you can't go wrong with either one of those two tubes they are both readily available, not expensive and they sound great.


----------



## mordy

willne1 said:


> I'll go along with that..Although I don't have anywhere near as much experience as mordy, I do have experience with these tubes and they are the ones I use 75% of the time and the other 25% of the time I use the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV tubes. I'm still using the stock power tubes and I have no complaints so far. IMO you can't go wrong with either one of those two tubes they are both readily available, not expensive and they sound great.


Thank you for your kind words. The EI tubes I have have a quick heat feature- when you turn on the amp they flash up for a second. The first time I used these 6H5M tubes I thought the amp was blowing up! But this is normal with many European tubes and no cause for worry....


----------



## Whelkie D

mordy said:


> Thank you for your kind words. The EI tubes I have have a quick heat feature- when you turn on the amp they flash up for a second. The first time I used these 6H5M tubes I thought the amp was blowing up! But this is normal with many European tubes and no cause for worry....


Yes, I agree the Yugo 6hm5s are really good all-rounders and a great place to start. I haven't tried the short version yet but many people have said they sound slightly harsh, but the tall ones are one of my favourites


----------



## gkprabhu

mordy said:


> These are considered among the best drivers for the LD MKIII:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/EI-6HM5-EC...m5d4fdb1092:g:prcAAOSwDk5UEhHk&frcectupt=true
> You can start with these - not expensive. Then for power tubes buy a pair of inexpensive 6SN7 tubes and a pair of adapters for the LD MKIII and you are set.
> Good luck!



thank you very much.  ordered the driver tubes. for the power tubes, can i go with any brand ?
Are these the adapters that i need to use the 6sn7 as power tubes 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/191082280257?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
and 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-9-PIN...60622385954?oid=161584664637&autorefresh=true

thank you very much


----------



## CJG888

Just ordered 6SN7s (Tung-Sol), Adapters and socket savers....


----------



## gkprabhu

CJG888 said:


> Just ordered 6SN7s (Tung-Sol), Adapters and socket savers....


Hi, could you be kind enough to share the links for the 6sn7 adapters and socket savers ? I would like to get them too.. thank you kindly


----------



## mordy

gkprabhu said:


> thank you very much.  ordered the driver tubes. for the power tubes, can i go with any brand ?
> Are these the adapters that i need to use the 6sn7 as power tubes
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/191082280257?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> and
> ...


These are the correct adapters and Mrs Ling Xu is a good seller. Re the 6SN7 I would just go for the least expensive since the sky is the limit on 6SN7 tubes. Most people seem to think that in the LD MKIII the main impact of the sound of the tubes come from the driver tubes and therefore, in this amp, the power tubes are not as crucial. I like to think of the power tubes as the rhythm section in a band - they provide the foundation for the sound.
Here is a suggestion for a pair of inexpensive 6SN7 tubes:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RC...m3b2ee7db09:g:SoAAAOSwiMtcp44J&frcectupt=true
but there are many more. 
You could go crazy with the 6SN7 but I don't think these will make much of a difference in the LD MKIII:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...m3406f74fc8:g:jHgAAOSwLeFcP7s-&frcectupt=true
Have fun!


----------



## gkprabhu

mordy said:


> These are the correct adapters and Mrs Ling Xu is a good seller. Re the 6SN7 I would just go for the least expensive since the sky is the limit on 6SN7 tubes. Most people seem to think that in the LD MKIII the main impact of the sound of the tubes come from the driver tubes and therefore, in this amp, the power tubes are not as crucial. I like to think of the power tubes as the rhythm section in a band - they provide the foundation for the sound.
> Here is a suggestion for a pair of inexpensive 6SN7 tubes:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RC...m3b2ee7db09:g:SoAAAOSwiMtcp44J&frcectupt=true
> but there are many more.
> ...


Thank you very very much.  If you are ever in the bay area, let me know. Beer's on me!!!


----------



## mordy

Thanks


----------



## gkprabhu

mordy said:


> Thanks


what is your opinion on this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6SN7-GTB-S...=283338508739cbe3d02e38bc4493835f57b4fe3e147c


----------



## gkprabhu

mordy said:


> Thanks


Also one more question. I have a dark voice amp which used the 6sn7 tubes. I have some that I got for it. Can I use 2 different unmatched 6sn7's in the little dot or do they have to match? Thank you kindly


----------



## mordy (Apr 12, 2019)

gkprabhu said:


> what is your opinion on this
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6SN7-GTB-Silvertone-Tube-Pair-Used-Tested-Strong-Vacuum-Tube-Vintage-Tube/283338508739?hash=item41f84a89c3&enc=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&checksum=283338508739cbe3d02e38bc4493835f57b4fe3e147c





gkprabhu said:


> what is your opinion on this
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6SN7-GTB-Silvertone-Tube-Pair-Used-Tested-Strong-Vacuum-Tube-Vintage-Tube/283338508739?hash=item41f84a89c3&enc=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&checksum=283338508739cbe3d02e38bc4493835f57b4fe3e147c


Silvertone was the Sears department store label on tubes sold there - usually they were made by Sylvania. The EIA code (Electronics Industry Association) of 312 stands for Sylvania. The date code of 726 means the 26th week (June) of probably 1967(1957?). The price is reasonable.


gkprabhu said:


> Also one more question. I have a dark voice amp which used the 6sn7 tubes. I have some that I got for it. Can I use 2 different unmatched 6sn7's in the little dot or do they have to match? Thank you kindly


You don't need matched tubes and you can even use different brands if they sound similar. Go ahead and save some money!


----------



## gkprabhu

mordy said:


> Silvertone was the Sears department store label on tubes sold there - usually they were made by Sylvania. The EIA code (Electronics Industry Association) of 312 stands for Sylvania. The date code of 726 means the 26th week (June) of probably 1967(1957?). The price is reasonable.
> 
> You don't need matched tubes and you can even use different brands if they sound similar. Go ahead and save some money!



Thanks. I got the silvertones. I really like the sound on those with my dark voice. Figured they could be backup for it as well. Thank you for your help. I appreciate it. I will let you know how I like the sound when I get it set up in a few weeks ( shipping from China takes a little bit ).


----------



## willne1

I've been using a pair of 6HM5's from the link mordy posted above for several months, I don't think a year yet. Anyhow I started getting a hum out of the right channel so I sprayed the sockets with Deoxit and also I cleaned the pins on the tubes and still had a hum. I switched to the Voshkod tubes and all is well. Anyhow my question is how common is this with tubes? Is this unusual or an ordinary occurence?

Thanks


----------



## dobigstuff

I sold my MK III, but here was my best combo.


----------



## mat.1 (Apr 16, 2019)

Hi , anyone know is this tube is genuine Siemens CCA holly grail ?


----------



## gkprabhu

gkprabhu said:


> Thanks. I got the silvertones. I really like the sound on those with my dark voice. Figured they could be backup for it as well. Thank you for your help. I appreciate it. I will let you know how I like the sound when I get it set up in a few weeks ( shipping from China takes a little bit ).




Hi , I just got the adapters from China and used the 6sn7's in the little dot. It sounds worse than the stock tubes!!! Am I doing something wrong ? Is there a setting that I need to change in the amp ? I tried with matching silvertones as well as a GE and Tung Sol that I had handy. It sounds so much better with the stock tubes. I am really confused here. Would really appreciate any help.  Thank you much. Gopal


----------



## CJG888

In what way does it sound worse?

Are you sure you have the correct adapters (6SN7 to 6H6)? Some noval tubes (e.g. 5687) have a different pinout.


----------



## gkprabhu (Apr 24, 2019)

CJG888 said:


> In what way does it sound worse?
> 
> Are you sure you have the correct adapters (6SN7 to 6H6)? Some noval tubes (e.g. 5687) have a different pinout.




Are these the right ones? I mean that the sound is thin , soundstage is reduced, the gain is low and if i crank the volume up, the music distorts. It's pretty bad actually.

Thank you for your response.


----------



## CJG888

FWIW, they don’t look right.

I’ve ordered these:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.de/ulk/itm/201079159018


----------



## gkprabhu

CJG888 said:


> FWIW, they don’t look right.
> 
> I’ve ordered these:
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.de/ulk/itm/201079159018




Thank you so much for your response. Please indulge me as I am new to this tube world.  I confirmed before buying this from ebay 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-6SN7-T...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

and 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-9-PIN...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

The 6sn7 tube fits in the adapter that I got, but the adapter does not fit snugly into the socket saver . Could that be a reason for the bad sound ?  I am guessing/hoping that the socket savers are alright. Am I correct there ? 

Please let me know if the ones you ordered work fine. I appreciate the help.  

Thanks 
Gopal


----------



## gkprabhu

mordy said:


> These are considered among the best drivers for the LD MKIII:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/EI-6HM5-EC...m5d4fdb1092:g:prcAAOSwDk5UEhHk&frcectupt=true
> You can start with these - not expensive. Then for power tubes buy a pair of inexpensive 6SN7 tubes and a pair of adapters for the LD MKIII and you are set.
> Good luck!



Hi mordy, i did as you suggested and got the adapters for the 6sn7 tubes from ebay and the 6hm5 tubes. The 6sn7 sounds worse than stock to my ears. It breaks up a high volumes and the sound is just not crisp / clear.  Do you have any suggestions ? Do you think that I got the right  adapters or maybe the problem is something else ? 

Please indulge my questions as i am really new to this tube world.  Any advice appreciated. 

This is what I got .. 


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-6SN7-T...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

and 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-9-PIN...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


Should I have got this instead ?? 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.de/ulk/itm/201079159018

thank you much


----------



## mordy

I am really at a loss why you have a problem because I used the 6SN7 tubes extensively without any ill effects. Do they sound bad with any driver tubes? Are your jumpers set to EF95 tubes?


----------



## gkprabhu

mordy said:


> I am really at a loss why you have a problem because I used the 6SN7 tubes extensively without any ill effects. Do they sound bad with any driver tubes? Are your jumpers set to EF95 tubes?



Did I have to change my jumper settings before using the 6sn7 tubes ? Maybe that is the problem. Can you please let me know.  Thank you for your reply


----------



## mordy

mordy said:


> I am really at a loss why you have a problem because I used the 6SN7 tubes extensively without any ill effects. Do they sound bad with any driver tubes? Are your jumpers set to EF95 tubes?


I think that I found your problem - the second adapter has the wrong pinout. The second alternative you listed seems to be the correct one. However, the first adapter you got should be fine by itself - just try that one alone.
Here is a download of a tube pin compatibility utility:
https://en.freedownloadmanager.org/Windows-PC/TDSL-Personal-Edition-FREE.html


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## mordy

gkprabhu said:


> Did I have to change my jumper settings before using the 6sn7 tubes ? Maybe that is the problem. Can you please let me know.  Thank you for your reply


No.
That 9pin to 9pin adapter should not be used; just the 6SN7 to 6CG7 adapter.


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## gkprabhu

mordy said:


> No.
> That 9pin to 9pin adapter should not be used; just the 6SN7 to 6CG7 adapter.




Ok thank you, I will try. I feel like it is too short to reach the holes in there. I will get back to you. Thank you.


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## mordy

If the tube pins cannot reach you need a simple thin 9pin to 9pin adapter (unless you want to go through the bother of removing the rings). But you already have these....


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## CJG888

If the 9pin to 9pin adapter is a socket saver, it should not change the pinout. You will need it to fit the larger octal adapters, if you don’t want to cut away the rings around the tube sockets on the amp.


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## gkprabhu

mordy said:


> No.
> That 9pin to 9pin adapter should not be used; just the 6SN7 to 6CG7 adapter.



First off, thank you so very much for taking the time to go through my posts, look at the ebay listings and give me advice. 

here's what i did. 

i followed your instructions and removed the 9 pin adapter.  I used the silvertones that i got from ebay ( since I love the sound from those in my dark voice ). 
i used 2 headphones for my tests. the HD 6XX and hifiman 400i

With stock tubes in the  back and the new 6hm5 from Yugoslavia , the sound is pretty good and i enjoyed the music with both the headphones. 

with the 6sn7's in the back and the 6hm5's as the drivers the HD 6XX sounds pretty good and does not distort at high volumes, but has to be turned up to around 12 o clock to sound nice  and loud enough ...
for the 400i, the sound is pretty bad overall and when i try to push it beyond 11 o clock it distorts totally and sounds horrible 
It does the same thing for my monoprice M1060 headphones as well. Maybe that is due to them both being planar headphones ?? 

Anyway, I was hoping to use this amp for all my headphones, not just my 6XX's . 

Also one last thing .. I really prefer my dark voice over this for sure. No contest... maybe it's because I know nothing or am doing something wrong or both....but my ears tell me that the dark  voice is a better sounding amp 

Thank you all for your help. 
Gopal


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## Madbugger

Hello, I just purchased an MK 3 from the Bay with 6aj5 and  6ZH1P-EV drivers. There is no jumper on the pins and I am wondering if it is alright to use it without the jumper as these tubes are in the 95 family. Thanks for any help!


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## CaptainSpork (Jun 6, 2019)

Got some Mullard 8100s for my Mk3 which improved the sound overall, making it more musical, with the only issue being slightly muddier bass.

Then I swapped in some Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold Pin power tubes, and while this cleaned up the bass, it also completely removed any impact from percussion instruments.  You can certainly still hear them, but I don't feel them.  Ultimately I prefer the OTK 6H6PI power tubes it came with (bought in 2009).

Does anyone have any power tubes they recommend for clean sound without sacrificing bass impact?  Thanks!


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## azazell86

There's actually a special set of Mullard M8100's which had everything (bass, soundstage, treble, sweet mids) I've sold my Mk3 5 years ago and I regret it even now.
I don't remember the specifications, but I got my advice on this thread and they indeed sounded absolutely the best.


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## mikeypas

Apologies if this has been asked and answered : I did attempt to search through this thread, but its quite extensive
Just got a little dot mkiii, looking to get some tubes for rolling
Already got my hands on 6zh1p-ev voshod, and mullard m8161. I'm loving the voshods, haven't yet tried the m8161
I was considering getting some 6n6p-ir power tubes. I read that its probably worth it
I also can get my hands on some sylvania 6sn7gtb tubes

My question is: Do I need an adapter for the 6sn7gtb tubes? 
If so, can someone link to the type of adapter I'll need?

Thank you very much


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## mordy

mikeypas said:


> Apologies if this has been asked and answered : I did attempt to search through this thread, but its quite extensive
> Just got a little dot mkiii, looking to get some tubes for rolling
> Already got my hands on 6zh1p-ev voshod, and mullard m8161. I'm loving the voshods, haven't yet tried the m8161
> I was considering getting some 6n6p-ir power tubes. I read that its probably worth it
> ...


The best 6N6 tubes are the 6H30DR but they are very expensive and not worth it IMHO - the IR tubes are a very good choice and much lower priced.
I believe that this adapter is the right one for the 6SN7 tubes, but just check with the seller to make 100% sure:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...845222?hash=item2edfa84fa6:g:Fu4AAOSwxAxa0GLA


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## Datun Walnut

ethebull said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...



I've just found something interesting: I have a box of many different flavours of EF91 and having tried a few of the different types, all of them have the low end distortion reported here.
I decided to sell the tubes as they were no good to me but needed to test them. To save my littledot, I ordered a pair of socket savers. I tried them last night and strangely, the low end distortion has disappeared. I've now rolled EF91, CV4014, 6AM6, EF92, CV138, Z77 and W77 from various makes and none of them are distorting anymore. My favourite now has to be the CV4014. I hope that helps somebody. Next I'm going to try 6SN7GTs as power tubes just for fun.


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## ethebull

I haven't posted here in a decade+  Still find the Sylvania range rules, including their 5687WA power tube. Rock'in the L'il dot to it's finest, as always.


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## Datun Walnut

Right, I Think I've discovered *my *ultimate valves for the LD II, After picking up a load of valves that were destined for the trash, I found a pair of CV1988s. (uk mil spec 16sn7gt made originally by Brimar) - I've been told they are 1940s made at the STC Footscray factory.  I've used these with a 6SN7 to 6CG7 adaptor. The signal valve duties are performed by Mullard CV4014 blue bottles. I can honestly say that this is the best line up I've ever heard in my LD. Playing my usual test pieces, the sound is gin clear  - open and spacious. Highs are precise, The lows are really detailed and the mids just wonderful. I've always been happy with my Sylvania 6SN7GTs but these.... oh my word. I can't believe how lucky I've been to get them. My only worry is how long they they'll last and would selling them get me a pair of serious cans instead? (My Favourite cans at the moment are vintage Beyerdynamic DT-440s from the 1980s)  What do you guys think?


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## vixro (Mar 28, 2020)

Whoops thought I was in the big thread. ;D


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## mordy

Datun Walnut said:


> Right, I Think I've discovered *my *ultimate valves for the LD II, After picking up a load of valves that were destined for the trash, I found a pair of CV1988s. (uk mil spec 16sn7gt made originally by Brimar) - I've been told they are 1940s made at the STC Footscray factory.  I've used these with a 6SN7 to 6CG7 adaptor. The signal valve duties are performed by Mullard CV4014 blue bottles. I can honestly say that this is the best line up I've ever heard in my LD. Playing my usual test pieces, the sound is gin clear  - open and spacious. Highs are precise, The lows are really detailed and the mids just wonderful. I've always been happy with my Sylvania 6SN7GTs but these.... oh my word. I can't believe how lucky I've been to get them. My only worry is how long they they'll last and would selling them get me a pair of serious cans instead? (My Favourite cans at the moment are vintage Beyerdynamic DT-440s from the 1980s)  What do you guys think?


What do you consider serious cans?


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## mikeypas

Tube rolling question for the MK3
- been reading a lot, want to try some 6SN7GT for power tube. I understand I would need a 6SN7 to ECC88 adapter.
- also read alot about the c3g driver tubes. I understand I would need a C3G to 6AK5 adapter.
I also read that because of the brass bands on the mk3, I would need extenders or socket savers. 
I read that I would need the socket saver for the c3g (7 pin to 7pin). 
Would I also need for the 6sn7gt??
Does the rest of my info sound correct?


Alot of suggestions with links to ebay for the various 6sn7gt and c3g , however, as they as old, the links no longer work.
Was wondering if anyone had any newer links to suggestions ?

Thanks in advance


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## mordy

I think that you need the small 7pin socket extenders to clear the tube bases from the rings for both the power and driver tubes. If you order C3g to 6AK5 adapters you could ask the seller for the dimensions and measure the inside diameter of the rings and see if it fits without the extender (the seller may list the dimensions as well).
Re the 6SN7 tubes the prices are all over the map - IMHO I don't think you need anything expensive - just look for an inexpensive pair to start with.
Just an example from a cursory look:
Here is a very good sounding pair of the RCA 6SN7GT with the horizontal heater wire. These are used but could last a long time still.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-6SN7G...547617?hash=item52208ecc61:g:go0AAOSwEtRdO3py
Specifically, what are you looking for re the links that are outdated?
If you are looking for C3g tubes you can sometimes find better buys on German eBay. I would not be afraid to buy used ones from a reputable seller since they are good for 10,000 hours.
There is a field for English translation or use Google translate:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/6-x-C3g-Sie...872549?hash=item1f15fcc265:g:S7EAAOSwUKZfVRsV
If you buy from Germany, insist on German Post (Bundespost) since it is much cheaper than DHL etc.


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## Whelkie D

mikeypas said:


> Tube rolling question for the MK3
> - been reading a lot, want to try some 6SN7GT for power tube. I understand I would need a 6SN7 to ECC88 adapter.
> - also read alot about the c3g driver tubes. I understand I would need a C3G to 6AK5 adapter.
> I also read that because of the brass bands on the mk3, I would need extenders or socket savers.
> ...


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-...478967?hash=item1ce8c797f7:g:9N8AAOSwLydegidu


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## quicklytoo4

so I've seen a lot of people talking about using 6ak5 tubes with little dot stuff but I haven't been able to find any adapters besides dual 6ak5 to single e88cc etc. (I have a mk3 SE) is there something I am missing or a diy kit to make one easily?


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## mikeypas

Regarding the previous threads about 6SN7 to 6CG7 adapter, when I contacted Little Dot, they mentioned I would need 6SN7 to ECC88
Are these equivalent? I've not seen on the threads ECC88 listed anywhere, but I have seen the 6CG7 talked about. Its for the Little Dot MKiii

Also, regarding C3G to 6AK5, what is the jumper setting A or B to use? (EF95 or EF92) ? 

Thanks again


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## quicklytoo4 (Sep 14, 2020)

mikeypas said:


> Regarding the previous threads about 6SN7 to 6CG7 adapter, when I contacted Little Dot, they mentioned I would need 6SN7 to ECC88
> Are these equivalent? I've not seen on the threads ECC88 listed anywhere, but I have seen the 6CG7 talked about. Its for the Little Dot MKiii


6922/ECC88/6DJ8/E88CC/E188CC/7308/E288CC are the sockets supported so guessing the pining is different for GCG7
^MK3 SE
EF92, CV131, WE403A/B, GE5654, M8100, CV4010, EF95, 6JI as well as all equivalents to these vacuum tubes!
^according to Little Dots product form for normal MK3


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## Datun Walnut

quicklytoo4 said:


> so I've seen a lot of people talking about using 6ak5 tubes with little dot stuff but I haven't been able to find any adapters besides dual 6ak5 to single e88cc etc. (I have a mk3 SE) is there something I am missing or a diy kit to make one easily?


I think the 6ak5 is a drop in replacement for the 5654 so doesn't need an adaptor. http://www.r-type.org/exhib/abh0022.htm


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## quicklytoo4

Datun Walnut said:


> I think the 6ak5 is a drop in replacement for the 5654 so doesn't need an adaptor. http://www.r-type.org/exhib/abh0022.htm


Mk3 SE doesn't support 5654


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## Whelkie D

mikeypas said:


> Regarding the previous threads about 6SN7 to 6CG7 adapter, when I contacted Little Dot, they mentioned I would need 6SN7 to ECC88
> Are these equivalent? I've not seen on the threads ECC88 listed anywhere, but I have seen the 6CG7 talked about. Its for the Little Dot MKiii
> 
> Also, regarding C3G to 6AK5, what is the jumper setting A or B to use? (EF95 or EF92) ?
> ...


The jumper setting for the C3g to 6AK5 adaptor is EF95.


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## Datun Walnut

quicklytoo4 said:


> Mk3 SE doesn't support 5654


My bad


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## Whelkie D

Datun Walnut said:


> My bad


I think the MK111 DOES take 5654 tubes
https://drop.com/buy/littledot-tube-amp


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## Datun Walnut

Whelkie D said:


> I think the MK111 DOES take 5654 tubes
> https://drop.com/buy/littledot-tube-amp


I thought so mysf. In which case the 6ak5 is a drop in without an adaptor


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## Whelkie D

Datun Walnut said:


> I thought so mysf. In which case the 6ak5 is a drop in without an adaptor


Actually, I'm not sure whether the "SE" version of the MK3 (if that's what you have) does take 5654. There should be someone else on this thread who can advise on this hopefully


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## quicklytoo4

MK3 and MK3 SE have entirely different slots (MK3 has 7 pin slots MK3 SE has 9) MK3 supports EF95 which is the same as 6AK5


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## Datun Walnut (Sep 27, 2020)

I don't know if I'm allowed to do this but please remove if I can't but I'd like to sell my duplicate tubes for my Little dot. I only want what I paid for them as I need space. I've tried them all and they work ok. They are all variants of EF91s of various vintage makes versions and a couple of 6SN7GTs and make for interesting listening. Please PM me if you are interested.


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## vixro

Does anyone have recommendations for shields for the tubes that are compatible with the MK3?  Or maybe even a full steel enclosure?  I get a lot of feedback from my wifi router and my cellphone that the amp easily picks up and it creates a background ticking that really bothers me.  If I place my hand over the tubes, the ticking goes completely away.  I've looked into individual steel based covers that seem to fit the smaller tubes but not the driver tubes.

Anyone have success with this or recommendations?


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## mordy

vixro said:


> Does anyone have recommendations for shields for the tubes that are compatible with the MK3?  Or maybe even a full steel enclosure?  I get a lot of feedback from my wifi router and my cellphone that the amp easily picks up and it creates a background ticking that really bothers me.  If I place my hand over the tubes, the ticking goes completely away.  I've looked into individual steel based covers that seem to fit the smaller tubes but not the driver tubes.
> 
> Anyone have success with this or recommendations?


A quick look on eBay shows a lot of offerings for vacuum tube shields but I do not have any personal experience.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr....m570.l1313&_nkw=vacuum+tube+shields&_sacat=0
What I did myself with other amps was to take aluminum foil and shape it around the tubes. Not pretty, but sometimes helped. There is something called a Faraday cage - basically a metal cage. If you have a metal pen holder cup or similar you could put it over the tubes to see if it helps.
I know of somebody who took a paperback and leaned it against the tube and it helped!
Or plugging in the offending router a distance away if possible....


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## vixro

mordy said:


> A quick look on eBay shows a lot of offerings for vacuum tube shields but I do not have any personal experience.
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr....m570.l1313&_nkw=vacuum+tube+shields&_sacat=0
> What I did myself with other amps was to take aluminum foil and shape it around the tubes. Not pretty, but sometimes helped. There is something called a Faraday cage - basically a metal cage. If you have a metal pen holder cup or similar you could put it over the tubes to see if it helps.
> I know of somebody who took a paperback and leaned it against the tube and it helped!
> Or plugging in the offending router a distance away if possible....



Hey thanks for the idea on the aluminum foil.  Times are tough and I can hide the amp for now with the foil while I search for a more permanent solution like a Faraday cage.


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## tvrguy

Datun Walnut said:


> I don't know if I'm allowed to do this but please remove if I can't but I'd like to sell my duplicate tubes for my Little dot. I only want what I paid for them as I need space. I've tried them all and they work ok. They are all variants of EF91s of various vintage makes versions and a couple of 6SN7GTs and make for interesting listening. Please PM me if you are interested.


Do you have any 6SN7's left?


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## Datun Walnut

Yes I've a couple of Sylvanias


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## Terozzzz

Hi, i hope someone who knows better sees this 
 I bought Electro-Harmonix "EHX EH 6H30Pi Gold Pins - Platinum Matched Pair - For ARC" tubes for my dot mk III
Can i use these? I read somewhere here that you can but on the https://www.head-fi.org/threads/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide.563884/ 
It says its only for mk IV?
Help  these cost like 130€ for me


----------



## quicklytoo4

Terozzzz said:


> Hi, i hope someone who knows better sees this
> I bought Electro-Harmonix "EHX EH 6H30Pi Gold Pins - Platinum Matched Pair - For ARC" tubes for my dot mk III
> Can i use these? I read somewhere here that you can but on the https://www.head-fi.org/threads/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide.563884/
> It says its only for mk IV?
> Help  these cost like 130€ for me


some people seem to be saying it depends on what revision you have I looked at amazon reviews and a guy with the MK3 and the 4.0 board said it works (apparently you should be able to see the board version through a hole in the bottom)


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## Terozzzz

Damn, it says V2.0 :/


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## Terozzzz

quicklytoo4 said:


> some people seem to be saying it depends on what revision you have I looked at amazon reviews and a guy with the MK3 and the 4.0 board said it works (apparently you should be able to see the board version through a hole in the bottom)


I'll test them, if it blows up i'll report here  hehe..


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## MIKELAP

Terozzzz said:


> I'll test them, if it blows up i'll report here  hehe..


i had a Littledot mk3 from year 2012 and i was using these tubes


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## MIKELAP

Terozzzz said:


> I'll test them, if it blows up i'll report here  hehe..


Found this i had posted back then https://www.head-fi.org/search/8768755/?q=version+mk3+6h30pi&t=post&c[thread]=563884&o=date


----------



## Terozzzz

NICE! saved my day


----------



## MIKELAP

If you want answers to your question they are here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide.563884/


----------



## Terozzzz

Oh my god, i had no idea these "EHX EH 6H30Pi Gold Pins - Platinum Matched Pair - For ARC" can sound so good..


----------



## RaynFox

So after a while, I've been reading a lot about tube rolling and I finally got to tube roll my Little Dot Mk3. I must say, simply amazing. I'm currently using JJ 6SN7 in adapters + socket savers (didn't want to remove the golden rings) and Voskhod Rocket 6ZH1P-EV for the driver tubes. It's a great combo, I can actually hear a lot of new things in msuic that I couldn't before - I'm surprised by this. What I noticed the most going from the stock tubes tho is more bass. It's smoother and nicer sounding but there is more of it. It's a very audible difference with Sennheiser HD 6XX that I'm using. Overall tho, very nice sound and I can recommend this combo! Of course also attaching pictures. Wouldn't win a beauty contest but it's worth it. They look absolutely stunning in total darkness.


----------



## mordy

RaynFox said:


> So after a while, I've been reading a lot about tube rolling and I finally got to tube roll my Little Dot Mk3. I must say, simply amazing. I'm currently using JJ 6SN7 in adapters + socket savers (didn't want to remove the golden rings) and Voskhod Rocket 6ZH1P-EV for the driver tubes. It's a great combo, I can actually hear a lot of new things in msuic that I couldn't before - I'm surprised by this. What I noticed the most going from the stock tubes tho is more bass. It's smoother and nicer sounding but there is more of it. It's a very audible difference with Sennheiser HD 6XX that I'm using. Overall tho, very nice sound and I can recommend this combo! Of course also attaching pictures. Wouldn't win a beauty contest but it's worth it. They look absolutely stunning in total darkness.


You may want to try the EI 6HM5 tubes as drivers as well- should not be expensive to buy. Plug and play -  no adapters needed.


----------



## RaynFox

mordy said:


> You may want to try the EI 6HM5 tubes as drivers as well- should not be expensive to buy. Plug and play -  no adapters needed.


Might try them someday. Right now mostly waiting for all these 4 brand new to burn in to hear the best out of them.


----------



## mordy

RaynFox said:


> Might try them someday. Right now mostly waiting for all these 4 brand new to burn in to hear the best out of them.


Good - I see that you haven't yet been bitten by the tube rolling bug! It is very dangerous and results in buying more and more tubes - it never ends. In any event, when I owned the LD MKIII the EI tubes were among the top performers.

30-50 hours of burn in is normal, but some tubes can take much longer. I remember reading that the Voskhod tubes need 120 hours to sound their best.


----------



## jonathan c

mordy said:


> Good - I see that you haven't yet been bitten by the tube rolling bug! It is very dangerous and results in buying more and more tubes - it never ends. In any event, when I owned the LD MKIII the EI tubes were among the top performers.
> 
> 30-50 hours of burn in is normal, but some tubes can take much longer. I remember reading that the Voskhod tubes need 120 hours to sound their best.


…*yet … 😏*


----------

