# UpTone Audio USB REGEN



## jtwrace

This is a very exciting product that has just been released.  I'm really excited to say that I have one coming and hope to have it by the weekend.  I also have one of UpTone Audio's JS-2 LPS.  These two products are designed by the amazing John Swenson.  
  
 Below is from the *UpTone Audio website* which you can see here and pre-order the REGEN ($175) from if you are interested.  
  
  
  
*The UpTone Audio USB REGEN just might be the next big leap for computer audio.*

The USB REGEN takes the digital audio stream from your computer or other music streaming device, and *generates a completely new USB data signal to feed to your DAC.  *It accomplishes this by combining* *a carefully chosen USB hub chip with an ultra low-noise regulator and low-jitter clock.  Importantly, it does so with ideal impedance matching—*right at the input of your DAC.*

If you are familiar with the variations in sound quality that come from different computer configurations, USB cables, and power supplies (no, "bits are bits" really does not apply when pursuing the audio summit), then you will immediately recognize the often dramatic effect that the REGEN can have on the the connection you feel with the music.

Although the REGEN does not eliminate all sound quality differences between USB cables in a high-end system, it significantly reduces those differences. John Swenson has written about how the PHY chips and processors at the input of every USB DAC (even those with galvanic isolation) are sensitive to "packet noise modulation" and ground-plane noise—caused by *poor signal integrity* and impedance mis-matching.  Every USB audio source (computer or streamer) and cable causes this, every DAC is affected by this—and*the REGEN is the cure.*

The USB REGEN's secondary function is that it disconnects the computer's noisy 5 volt bus power coming down the USB cable, and *provides clean 5VBUS on its output*--for DACs that need it—via a second ultra low-noise regulator.

From all the time we have spent listening to the REGEN in our systems we can say that it is exceeding our expectations. Often it *sounds like you are listening to a different DAC!*Of course the benefit will vary with each computer/DAC system, but we hear positive differences even with very modest systems. The improvement is different than with a power supply or computer optimizations—but perhaps larger.

Regardless of whether you are feeding your USB DAC from a from a stock computer, a fully-optimized music server, or a streamer/renderer (Auralic Aries, Bryston, Moon Audio, SOtM sMS-100, etc.), the REGEN has the potential to carry your music system to a new level.

*The USB REGEN kit includes:*

a) the REGEN itself in an all black with silver-printed aluminum case (57 x 46 x 18mm); Input is USB 'B' jack, Output is USB 'A' jack, DC jack is 5.5mm x 2.1mm.

b) the best spec'ed and sounding 22 watt/7.5V/2.93A (overkill) tabletop (93 x 54 x 36mm) world-voltage-compatible SMPS we could find (use a nice linear if you want—in the range of 6-9V/1.5A is fine; or even 12V if you are certain that your DAC is not deriving much power from USB bus); If you own an UpTone JS-2 LPS, then you can consider using one of its outputs—set to 7V—to power the REGEN very nicely!

c) an 18-inch long Volex 18awg power cord to go from the SMPS to the wall (get fancy if you like, or if you are overseas use a power cord with locally appropriate plug);

d) a male/male USB A/B solid adapter plug (for hanging the REGEN right from the back of your DAC; maybe stick a block of something under it if you feel it needs support);

e) a 6-inch male/male USB A>B cable if things are too tight around your DAC's USB input or you just don't want to use the solid adapter.

f) a 4-year, transferrable warranty.


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## jtwrace

I'm surprised nobody is interested in this product.  It has the makings to be a massive breakthrough.


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## jtwrace

My Regen arrives on Saturday.


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## Howlin Fester

jtwrace said:


> My Regen arrives on Saturday.


 
 Can't wait to hear your impressions.
  
 At the moment, I don't use computers for my source.  But at this time last year, I didn't use a desktop amp.  And now I have a peachtree integrated amp, and I have a Unison Research headphone amp on order.  So who knows where I'll be this time next year.  
  
 Money suckin' hobby...


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## jtwrace

howlin fester said:


> Can't wait to hear your impressions.
> 
> At the moment, I don't use computers for my source.  But at this time last year, I didn't use a desktop amp.  And now I have a peachtree integrated amp, and I have a Unison Research headphone amp on order.  So who knows where I'll be this time next year.
> 
> Money suckin' hobby...


 
 haha.  Yes, this hobby (like my others) tends to take my money.


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## jtwrace

John Swenson, the designer, was asked about the design compared to the Schitt.  Below is from John Swenson said.
  
  
  
The Wyrd and the regen are conceptually similar from an upper level standpoint, they are very different in implementation and motivation for the development. 

From reading what Schiit has posted it seems that their motivation was providing a clean power supply and secondly regenerating the data, whereas my motivation was providing the highest signal quality I could, and secondly providing very clean power. 

Some of the differences are:
The regen has a much lower jitter clock feeding the hub chip, which will provide lower jitter on the data.

The regen uses a 4 layer board, primarily to allow a proper impedance match. With a standard thickness 2 layer board it is impossible to attain a proper impedance match to the hub chip. The pins on the chip are small and close together, this necessitates very thin board traces, with a two layer board the distance between ground plane and these traces (BTW this is called a differential micro-strip configuration) produce an impedance that is much greater than the spec. With a four layer board the ground plane can be much closer to the top layer which allows for appropriate impedance with the very narrow traces. The regen also uses SMD USB jacks which allow for appropriate trace width and spacing to continue the impedance matching through to the USB jacks. The result of this is that there will be very minimal reflections at the regen side. Even if the DAC does not have good impedance matching (which is pretty common) which WILL cause a reflection at the DAC end, it will be absorbed at the regen because of the proper impedance matching.

The regen has a frequncy optimized Power Delivery network (PDN), which turns out to make a very significant improvement in SQ. This is quite a technical subject, WAY beyond what I can post here, but here is the mile high summary:

In order to properly respond to the load variations of what the supply is powering, it needs to have a low impedance over a very broad range of frequencies. For digital audio this is from low Hz to hundreds of Mhz range. The entire supply flow from mains AC to board layout and capacitors on the board play a role in getting this right. 

The regen is what got me focusing in on this. I was testing the first prototype and was seeing some noise on the supply right at the hub chip power pins that shouldn't be there. After a lot of detective work I traced it down to some frequency ranges of the PDN that were much higher impedance than they should be. I included a fix for this in the second version. With this I couldn't detect the noise any more, and it sounded much better, but Alex was still not super thrilled with the SQ. I then did a mathematical analysis of the PDN and found another frequency range that had a higher impedance than it should, made a fix for this, and sent the result to Alex, he was thrilled, this was much better than anything he had heard before. 

This process of frequency optimizing the PDN is something that is done in expensive high speed network equipment, but is almost never done in consumer products, especially audio equipment. But the experience with the regen seems to point to this being quite important for digital audio. I have subsequently tried some of this on some DACs and seen marked improvement in SQ, so it looks like this might be a significant area to look into.

The whole reason I started thinking about a regen was the USBcable threads, after a lot of experimentation and thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that the signal integrity at the DACwas what was probably the difference between cables. Thus a device designed to regenerate the data signals. Because the whole purpose was to regenerate the signals that the cables were messing up, the regen device had to be right at the input to theDAC, thus it needed to be small and low weight. 

One un-anticipated benefit to the frequency optimized PDN, is that the noise on the VBUS output is much less sensitive to load transients than other implementations. So if the DAC IS bus powered, that brings even more improvement.

Well there it is, the primary reasons the regen hasa better implementation than other devices.

John S.


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## KritiKal

Out of stock until the end of May! It was going to be an impulse buy, so I suppose it will give me time to wait for others to get their's and give some feedback at least.


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## jtwrace

kritikal said:


> Out of stock until the end of May! It was going to be an impulse buy, so I suppose it will give me time to wait for others to get their's and give some feedback at least.


 
 Yeah, the first 100 sold out in about 24 hrs.  I'd still recommend getting on the list soon once some reviews come.  The reviews will start to come this weekend I'm sure.  Mine arrives tomorrow...


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## KritiKal

jtwrace said:


> Yeah, the first 100 sold out in about 24 hrs.  I'd still recommend getting on the list soon once some reviews come.  The reviews will start to come this weekend I'm sure.  Mine arrives tomorrow...




Good to know that the reviews are not too far away. Yeah, I agree, I was hoping to still get on ASAP as I'm sure this batch will sell quickly too. I'll keep an out for your review. Thanks!


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## jtwrace

My REGEN has arrived and is playing!  
  
 Yes, it's small!  

  
 As always with UpTone Audio, very professional packing.  

  
 Rear view of it installed in my AURALiC Vega.


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## jtwrace

OK, I've been listening non-stop since this little gem arrived today. I did leave for dinner and even set the Tivo for the UFC fights. I've been really confused as I really didn't know what to say other than it's good and I like it. I've been listening to all kinds of material and the normal stuff actually sounded mo better. What was weird was that I actually listen to stuff that I like, not just well recorded stuff. These particular tracks aren't recorded all that well but with the REGEN actually sound good. Then I put on Dire Straits "Money For Nothing" in DSD and tried the same test with/without the REGEN. The best way to describe it for me is that there is less distortion. It's bizarre. The guitar riff at the beginning sounds almost f'd up without the REGEN and then you put it in and it sounds like something just got fixed. It's really strange but it's staying in my system. In fact, I think I need to order one for my Micro iDSD system. Yikes! Oh but first I need to do something...I'll report back if I'm able to get what I think could be useful for all. Give me a few weeks. 

Bottom line, go order your REGEN from batch #2 due at the end of May. I'd be shocked if you didn't like it.


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## alec66

Ordered!
 Will couple with Corning USB Optic Cable


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## stellablues

Corning USB Optic Cable
  
 do those only come in 10m lengths? how do they sound?

 thanks,


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## jtwrace

Yes, the shortest they have is 10m.  Nobody has tried the REGEN with one yet though...
  
 http://www.corning.com/opcomm/OpticalCablesbyCorning/products/USB-3.Optical.aspx


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## alec66

stellablues said:


> Corning USB Optic Cable
> 
> do those only come in 10m lengths? how do they sound?
> 
> thanks,


 
 without going in deep, here a really simple explanation reported from another board:
  
 "it should be solvable by effective isolation of the USB signal and clean + 5 v and ground. I took a look under the hood of a decrapifier but was not convinced that RF could not make it across the unit. i do think there is a good chance that the Corning optical USB feeding into the upcoming Uptone Regen will achieve a good result. With this combination there will be full optical isolation of the data, the data will be reclocked and retransmited by the USB receiver friendly PHY in the Regen, and clean 5 v will be supplied. The DAC 's USB receiver will not be hearing the PHY of the Corning cable."
  
 Hope this helps...


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## KritiKal

jtwrace said:


> [COLOR=333333]OK, I've been listening non-stop since this little gem arrived today. I did leave for dinner and even set the Tivo for the UFC fights. I've been really confused as I really didn't know what to say other than it's good and I like it. I've been listening to all kinds of material and the normal stuff actually sounded mo better. What was weird was that I actually listen to stuff that I like, not just well recorded stuff. These particular tracks aren't recorded all that well but with the REGEN actually sound good. Then I put on Dire Straits "Money For Nothing" in [/COLOR]DSD[COLOR=333333] and tried the same test with/without the REGEN. The best way to describe it for me is that there is less distortion. It's bizarre. The guitar riff at the beginning sounds almost f'd up without the REGEN and then you put it in and it sounds like something just got fixed. It's really strange but it's staying in my system. In fact, I think I need to order one for my Micro iDSD system. Yikes! Oh but first I need to do something...I'll report back if I'm able to get what I think could be useful for all. Give me a few weeks. [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]Bottom line, go [/COLOR][COLOR=417394]order your REGEN[/COLOR][COLOR=333333] from batch #2 due at the end of May. I'd be shocked if you didn't like it.[/COLOR]




Interested to hear how it stacks up in your iDSD system, as that's what I would be using one with. That's if it has different characteristics to what you're already using it in, which I'm guessing it really wouldn't.


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## Duke40

jtwrace said:


> I'm surprised nobody is interested in this product.  It has the makings to be a massive breakthrough.


 

 The thread is a bit quiet like the Auralic Gemini 2000 thread ... too many people are missing the good stuff !!!
  
 Thanks for posting your impressions.


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## jtwrace

duke40 said:


> The thread is a bit quiet like the Auralic Gemini 2000 thread ... too many people are missing the good stuff !!!
> 
> Thanks for posting your impressions.




Yes I agree. I'll post a picture later of my iDSD with it hooked up. I need to get a small adapter but it's sublime with the REGEN.


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## jtwrace

Here it is.


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## 514077

jtwrace said:


> OK, I've been listening non-stop since this little gem arrived today. I did leave for dinner and even set the Tivo for the UFC fights. I've been really confused as I really didn't know what to say other than it's good and I like it. I've been listening to all kinds of material and the normal stuff actually sounded mo better. What was weird was that I actually listen to stuff that I like, not just well recorded stuff. These particular tracks aren't recorded all that well but with the REGEN actually sound good. Then I put on Dire Straits "Money For Nothing" in DSD and tried the same test with/without the REGEN. The best way to describe it for me is that there is less distortion. It's bizarre. The guitar riff at the beginning sounds almost f'd up without the REGEN and then you put it in and it sounds like something just got fixed. It's really strange but it's staying in my system. In fact, I think I need to order one for my Micro iDSD system. Yikes! Oh but first I need to do something...I'll report back if I'm able to get what I think could be useful for all. Give me a few weeks.
> 
> Bottom line, go order your REGEN from batch #2 due at the end of May. I'd be shocked if you didn't like it.


 

 Uhhh, I kinda did.


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## jtwrace

uelong said:


> Uhhh, I kinda did.


 
 Nice.  Let us know what you think when it comes.


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## Duke40

My impressions and thoughts of the USB REGEN.
  
 I am a little bit bitter & twisted about every new gizmo which is supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread and failing to deliver or provide modest gains at best (for an exorbitant sum). 
  
 That said, I must admit I have been very intrigued about the REGEN, something which base it’s gains on engineering and taking a new perspective. What also really interested me was that it would help minimise the effect/influence of USB cables … I think they do matter to a certain extent , though there are many other things I would rather spend my money on. I also thought the price of the REGEN was very reasonable when taking in the design & quality of parts (shipping price was also very good).
 I did have some expectation bias that a positive effect would be provided, but that can be a double edged sword if a significant enough improvement is not provided, that is, it can backfire.
  
 So, I thought I would give the REGEN a go.
  
 How I tested … rather than just type IMHO, YMMV, "take it with a grain of salt" and all the other disclaimers, I though to type the following to provide a “baseline”.  I also think over hyping products serves no good to anyone, so I will try my best to be balanced.
  
*Music* : My HDTracks library is quite small, so I thought this may be better to use to detect changes, rather than doing A/B tests (which just ends with me getting tired of my favourite music). Some is well recorded, some not that great ... including Jazz, Vocals, Reggae, Classic Rock genres.
*Me* : My hearing is still excellent for mids and HF, though poor in LF (some damage in bass region … a bit of a train wreck , rollercoaster, actually in the lower octaves).
*Gear used* : Modest compared to most .. just used my headphone rig (Audeze LCD-3F & Auralic Gemini 2000 DAC/AMP). Powered the REGEN with a 9V LPS, plugged into a Balanced power supply. Onkyo HF Player with HDTacks music stored on my iPhone 5.
 Took out my iFi USB cables and just used USB adapters like those provided with the REGEN to minimise any influence of USB cables.
*Bias* : Never been a fan of USB (until I got a Vaunix USB hub), or expensive cables (my average is probably $100 and I DIY as much as possible,  with a range of $0 to $200) as I would rather spend my money on audio gear or power tweaks or … music !
  
  
*Listening impressions*
  
 First impressions … nothing … until the 3rd song ... then I was shocked (and yes, I am trying to be balanced rather than overhyping 
 I like classic rock & it was a Meat Loaf song of all things, “You took the words right out of my mouth” which I consider poorly recorded, though the spoken vocal intro was so realistic, plus I had never previously noticed the room they recorded in before.
  
 “Aint no sunshine” from the “World’s Greatest Audiophile Vocal Recordings" sounded better (tone), “Dusty in Memphis” Dusty Springfield album (backing vocals more detailed), Bob Marley “Redemption Song” (just sounds more clear … like a layer of distortion or haze has been removed).
  
 Things I noticed in other songs ...
  
 More details … such as for Live music albums … sounds like I am there, hearing the environment more, both the room and the crowd, making it more realistic.
  
 Improved Vocals : Inflection of Tone, when this improves then this increases the emotional response.
 That is, I “get” the feeling or emotion the singer is trying to convey.
 Noticed this on all songs, including from Shelby Lynne, Neko Case and Sheryl Crow songs during my initial listening.
  
 Significantly realistic Tone/Timbre : Drums, Cymbals, Trumpet … and to a lesser extent for Tone/Timbre : Piano, Guitar ...
 It is not that it highlighted some instruments more … it is that it improved some instruments (drums, trumpet) which did not sound as tonally realistic (before REGEN) as I had already achieved for other instruments (piano, guitar) with other tweaks.
  
 Improved PRAT.   I especially like any improvement in Timing, which the REGEN provides.
 Elvis “Fever”, I liked the improvement in timing on this song.
  
 Bass … it is more detailed, nuanced.
  
 Sounds a touch louder as well.
  
  
*Other thoughts ...*
  
 It has been in my Headphone rig for about 4 hours and seems to be improving … burn in ??? …. or maybe I am just noticing the benefits more and more.
  
 The impressions above were performed with the REGEN directly attached to my DAC, then 30 minutes ago I just used a $1 USB Male A / Male B adapter to plug my Vaunix USB hub behind it, and I gained further improvements. The REGEN makes some of the Vaunix hub benefits redundant, as the REGEN now provides clean 5V power on the DAC's USB input , though the Vaunix provides an isolated ground  (I don’t really know, just guessing, though the benefits of both products appear to be providing a wonderful synergy … now I just need to get a optical USB cable to get full isolation, that’s my next step).
  
  
*Final thoughts ...*
  
 What I did not notice …. any real difference in soundstaging or imaging as I am testing on my headphone rig rather than my speaker rig 
 (I like & prefer the resolution of headphones to detect changes in audio gear & tweaks, though I think they are poor for determining soundstaging changes, speakers are still superior for that). 
 Could be benefits, but I did not use the right tool for the job.
  
 What I noticed (and wanted) the most ... PRAT, this along with Tone is what I desire the most for my Headphone Rig … and I have obtained a significant improvement that the REGEN is well worth it to me.  Plus the other benefits I noted above.
  
 It is a keeper !!!
  
 Thank you Alex Crespi & John Swenson for improving USB audio … for me it is a significant advance … like the development of Async was for USB … to my ears the calibre of improvement is in the same league.


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## Duke40

For my comments about the Vaunix USB Hub near the end of my review above... I have just been corrected on another forum by someone (John Swenson) who is much more intelligent than me for things related to USB.
 I am just a layman who was wondering aloud... John is a brilliant guy.
 I actually really appreciated this , rather than let apparent misinformation propogate.   
  
_"The Vaunix hub does NOT provide any isolation, it is just a normal hub, with a really good power supply. My guess is that the benefits come from the power supply, because they are aiming at a very robust supply (1A per port), they naturally wind up with low impedance to the hub chip. It may not be highly optimized PDN, but it is highly likely it is much better than most hubs. _
_"_


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## KritiKal

Well, I was going to hold out on this for a week or two as I figured I wouldn't get it any sooner and I could use the money in the interim on other things. But, I'm now worried this batch will sell out before then (even though interest, appears at least, to be low) due to the great reception it has received. I've been following another forum's thread about the REGEN and your review, Duke, has tipped the scales on my hand, making me accidentally press the buy button.


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## Duke40

kritikal said:


> Well, I was going to hold out on this for a week or two as I figured I wouldn't get it any sooner and I could use the money in the interim on other things. But, I'm now worried this batch will sell out before then (even though interest, appears at least, to be low) due to the great reception it has received. I've been following another forum's thread about the REGEN and your review, Duke, has tipped the scales on my hand, making me accidentally press the buy button.


 

 Probably a good idea to buy now .... they are selling like hot cakes  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I saw this recent comment from the manufacturer just now on another forum 
  
 "FYi, although I was able to bump the second run of REGENs up to 150 units, as of this morning about half of those are already pre-sold."
  
 I agree that on this HeadFi forum that interest does seem appear to be low ... though I greatly enjoy both HeadFi and Computer Audiophile and have benefited greatly from both forums, so was just trying to pass on something that I initially discovered on CA.
  
 KritiKal,   I am glad my review was of some use ... I did try to present a balanced perspective to make it useful to others (rather than a hype fest).
 I do not post much, though thought to make a report that is hopefully of use to others ... just as I have gained from others experiences on HeadFi.


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## Fujak

I did it too. But I have to train my patience, since the next Regen will be sent at the end of May. Thank you very much to jtwrace and Duke40 for your excellent reviews. I will add mine, when the Regen will have arrived. Kind regards - Fujak


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## Duke40

fujak said:


> I did it too. But I have to train my patience, since the next Regen will be sent at the end of May. Thank you very much to jtwrace and Duke40 for your excellent reviews. I will add mine, when the Regen will have arrived. Kind regards - Fujak


 

 Fujak,  Look forward to your thoughts. I am sure the wait will be worth it.
  
 Sounds like you got in time for the 2nd batch (May production run).
  
 They are now all sold out for the 2nd batch (just checked the UpTone Audio website) and are now up for the 3rd production run which will be shipped around mid June.
  
 I have been hearing reports that the USB REGEN pairs very well with the Corning Optical USB cable (so I have ordered one, should arrive in a couple of weeks).
 Apparently the USB REGEN + Corning Optical USB Cable has a very special synergy.
 I will post my thoughts once the Corning has arrived, and let you guys know the results with the Regen.


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## Fujak

duke40 said:


> I have been hearing reports that the USB REGEN pairs very well with the Corning Optical USB cable (so I have ordered one, should arrive in a couple of weeks).
> Apparently the USB REGEN + Corning Optical USB Cable has a very special synergy.
> I will post my thoughts once the Corning has arrived, and let you guys know the results with the Regen.




Duke40, I did the same. I also ordered the Corning USB 10m. Unfortunately it's sold out too. So June will be a great month for the audiophiles. . I will report. Kind regards - Fujak


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## Jon L

> Powered the REGEN with a 9V LPS, plugged into a Balanced power supply.


 
  
 Regen's DC input says 6-8V, so is 9V not going to harm things?  Have you tried the stock power supply?
  
 I do have the Regen on order, and I hate the 6-8V power supply, as it is much easier to find good Lithium battery supply or Linear power supply that fall just outside (5V, 9V for example).  I so wish I could use my Bakoon 5V Lithium battery supply on the Regen


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## Duke40

jon l said:


> > Powered the REGEN with a 9V LPS, plugged into a Balanced power supply.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 RE   "Have you tried the stock power supply?"
  
 ... no.    I wanted to minimise the variables when I first inserted the Regen, that is it was just simpler to insert the Regen (with a 9V output from my Linear Power Supply),
 so I went from a sound I was used to (with everything run from LPS),   to the sound with the Regen inserted.  
  
 I did think briefly about sticking the stock power supply straight into the wall, then I worried I may get ground loops or something else (as the rest of my gear was powered from a LPS),
so it would be best to plug  everything straight into the wall with there stock SMPS, but then I would be introducing too many new variables (and also not the sound that I was used too).
  

 RE  "Regen's DC input says 6-8V, so is 9V not going to harm things?" 
  
 ... I believe * "it depends" *on if the DAC that it is connected to requires the USB 5V to power the DAC, *or* simply just likes to see the 5V for handshaking.
  
 Below are two quotes from the UpTone Audio website ... *6 to 9V (1.5A) is fine* , which is what I am doing... it is just when you go to 12V that you need to take special care.
  
 Quote: from the Regen product page 





> (use a nice linear if you want—in the range of *6-9V/1.5A is fine;* or even 12V if you are certain that your DAC is not deriving much power from USB bus)


 
  
 Quote: from the Regen FAQ page 





> Feeding the REGEN 9 volts requires a drop of just 4V and that of course is just 2 watts to dissipate if the DAC draws full power.  No problem.


 
  
 I am using 9V from my LPS.   No Problem.
  
 As my Auralic Gemini is an externally powered DAC (as opposed to something like a CEntrance DACport  for example which needs the 5V to power itself) and the Auralic does not appear to require power from the 5V
 for it's USB input, all looks good.   The Regen is not warm at all... I just placed my hand on it, it just feels normal room temperature.
  
 I believe it is when you go to 12V *and* the DAC requires power from the 5V bus, that is when it could get tricky, and then the Regen could get too warm (as it does not have heat sinks)
  
  
 RE "I hate the 6-8V power supply, as it is much easier to find good Lithium battery supply or Linear power supply that fall just outside (5V, 9V for example)."
  
 Jon,   all may not be lost as far as alternative options for power supplies (I too am not a fan of anything SMPS ... the stock one that is supplied with the REGEN is apparently quite good,
 though if I have LPS or even LiPo batteries available, then I will always go that path.  The Regen does not need a LPS or LiPo battery to sound good, though it is more of extracting the last few percent
 of REGEN goodness , according to other threads I have read ...  in comparison to using the stock SMPS).
  
 Just remembered this ..... See below from the FAQ section on the UpTone Audio website .... this is straight from the manufacturer (so it outweighs anything I wrote above).
 It is lengthy and detailed. still I think it is a worthwhile read.
  


> *QUESTION:* The DC power input jack on the REGEN specifies 6~8 volts.  I know that the 7.5V/2.93A/22W SMPS that comes with the REGEN was selected as best "sounding" for the price, but I have a some other small linear power supplies that I would like to try with it.
> Can I use a 12 volt DC supply? Can I use a 5 volt supply?
> 
> *SHORT ANSWER: *Yes, but only if you are certain that your DAC's USB input does not draw ANY power from the 5V USB VBUS wires.*  *You can test this (without the REGEN) by taping over USB 5VBUS pin 1 (this is easiest to do at the computer 'A' end of the cable with a narrow cut strip of business card stock inserted and folded over). Or use a cable that you know does not connect 5VBUS line. That way you can determine that your DAC's USB input will or won't function without ANY external 5V—not even for computer "handshake."
> ...


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## Jon L

"If you know that your DAC does not need any bus power at all—or for sure only just for initial handshake—then you really don't have to worry. "
  
 Sweet.  My DAC only uses the 5V for handshake, and I have plenty of battery and LPS at 5V, 9V, 12V around


----------



## jtwrace

Glad you guys that have purchased it are enjoying it.


----------



## KritiKal

Does the wall end power cable detach from the SMPS (for those of us not in the US)? I'm guessing this was thought about when choosing the SMPS, but I just want to be certain.
If it doesn't detach, can someone recommend a moderately priced LPS? Actually, please recommend one even if it does detach!


----------



## SodaBoy

kritikal said:


> Does the wall end power cable detach from the SMPS (for those of us not in the US)? I'm guessing this was thought about when choosing the SMPS, but I just want to be certain.
> If it doesn't detach, can someone recommend a moderately priced LPS? Actually, please recommend one even if it does detach!


 
 I have heard good things about Teradak, they ship worldwide through various vendors on Ebay. Very decent prices, and have good consensus on their performance.


----------



## jtwrace

kritikal said:


> Does the wall end power cable detach from the SMPS (for those of us not in the US)? I'm guessing this was thought about when choosing the SMPS, but I just want to be certain.
> If it doesn't detach, can someone recommend a moderately priced LPS? Actually, please recommend one even if it does detach!



Yes it does detach. You can use whatever power cord you want.


----------



## Duke40

kritikal said:


> Does the wall end power cable detach from the SMPS (for those of us not in the US)? I'm guessing this was thought about when choosing the SMPS, but I just want to be certain.
> If it doesn't detach, can someone recommend a moderately priced LPS? Actually, please recommend one even if it does detach!


 

 The wall end power cable does detach from the SMPS.
  
 An inexpensive LPS , search ebay for "TeraDak TeraLink X1/X2 DC8.5V 1A + USB DC5V port Linear Power Supply". About $USD 90 shipped.
 You could use the DC cable that is supplied for free (it has a 2.1mm DC plug which should fit into the Regen's 2.1 DC input).
  
 A better version is the "TeraDak DC-30W-TOUCH DC9V 2.5A Linear Power Supply", it use a R-Core transformer (Superior to Toroid transformer). About $USD 170 shipped. 
  
 I have not used the TeraDak LPS, though I know a friend has one (the $USD 90), works well.
  
 I use a HD-Plex Linear PSU, about $USD 365 shipped.  It has 4 DC outlets (5V,9V,12V,19V).
 I am very impressed with it.  
 Great improvement, extremely impressed especially with using the 19V output on my DAC/AMP (Auralic Gemini 2000) ... 
  
 UpTone Audio also make a LPS, more expensive than the others I have mentioned (though also higher engineering, build parts, flexible output voltage),
 I would likely try one out if they made a 19V version.
  
 Hope that it helps ....


----------



## jtwrace

You can see the detachable power cord in this photo.


----------



## KritiKal

jtwrace said:


> You can see the detachable power cord in this photo.




Thanks. Yeah, I've seen that photo and came to the conclusion it was detachable but I read on CA about a member who was planning to chop the plug off and install his own. It threw me off as obviously a new cable is the easiest route, so it made me think it only appeared detachable.



duke40 said:


> The wall end power cable does detach from the SMPS.
> 
> An inexpensive LPS , search ebay for "TeraDak TeraLink X1/X2 DC8.5V 1A + USB DC5V port Linear Power Supply". About $USD 90 shipped.
> You could use the DC cable that is supplied for free (it has a 2.1mm DC plug which should fit into the Regen's 2.1 DC input).
> ...




It does help indeed! I'll check them out, thank you kindly.
The JS-2 does look great, but I'm still at the stage where $1000 can be spent on upgrades with better realization. That is likely to change in the future though. 



sodaboy said:


> I have heard good things about Teradak, they ship worldwide through various vendors on Ebay. Very decent prices, and have good consensus on their performance.




Thank you as well!

Seems like TeraDak is the way to go at the moment. As it is only to power the Regen, I can't justify spending as much, or more on an LPS as what it cost. The X1/X2 seems to be the way to go, but I shall research first.


----------



## Jon L

duke40 said:


> I use a HD-Plex Linear PSU, about $USD 365 shipped.  It has 4 DC outlets (5V,9V,12V,19V).
> I am very impressed with it.


 
  
 I have one, too.  It's a crazy good deal for the flexibility it offers for 4 different voltages and various cables they include with it.


----------



## Duke40

When you mentioned ... "I have plenty of battery and LPS at 5V, 9V, 12V around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




" ... I was wondering what LPS you used, it did not click that you also had a HD-Plex like me.
 For battery, I also have a LiPo, 3 outputs, it has 5V, 9 to 12V, and 19V I think (XPAL 18000, I think it is now called Energizer 18000).
  
  
 I noticed on another thread that UpTone Audio mentioned that if you have not yet bought a Corning USB Optical cable (as this seems to pair well with the USB Regen),
 it may be best to hold off " suggest that people stop ordering Corning cables"       (Damn, I ordered one a week or so ago)
  
 The news will be released tomorrow I think ... wonder what it is ?


----------



## amalgamist

Does anyone know if there is an in depth review for this unit ?


----------



## KritiKal

duke40 said:


> I use a HD-Plex Linear PSU, about $USD 365 shipped.  It has 4 DC outlets (5V,9V,12V,19V).
> I am very impressed with it.
> Great improvement, extremely impressed especially with using the 19V output on my DAC/AMP (Auralic Gemini 2000) ...






jon l said:


> I have one, too.  It's a crazy good deal for the flexibility it offers for 4 different voltages and various cables they include with it.




I'm actually thinking this is the route I'll go. Seems crazy to buy an individual LPS for everything, especially when the multi outlets are better bang for buck tech wise.
I have a Cavalli LC on the way and I'm looking in to a standalone DAC, so it would be more logical to wait until they're on their way and order a multi-outlet LPS.


----------



## KritiKal

amalgamist said:


> Does anyone know if there is an in depth review for this unit ?




No reviews by an actual reviewer (for lack of a better term) AFAIK, but there are a couple of threads on CA with plenty of user reviews and comments out there. I imagine with the second batch coming soon, and the third batch shortly after, we're bound to see some reviews from independent sites.


----------



## Currawong

Nice find. If I hadn't a bunch of other similar things I might have nabbed one of these.


----------



## jtwrace

Some updates:
  
*RESISTANCE IS NOT FUTILE!*

First I must apologize for the big build-up this week. This announcement, while it does result in a great sonic advance, is not, as some have speculated, an announcement of an entirely new UpTone/Swenson product. No UpTone optical gadget, no magical power supply.
Actually, the news is better—and I have nothing new to sell you (well maybe some of you).

I will cut right to the chase: 
We have added $0.40 worth of tiny resistors to the circuit board of the USB REGEN and* increased its musical performance by 40-50%—most especially in the bass! *Anyone who has a REGEN will be astonished by the improvement, and anyone who hears the new one for the first time will be even more amazed. Given the already unanimous rave reviews being heaped on the REGEN—by the 95 people around the world who got one from the mid-April first run—it is hard to fathom how the thing could get that much better. But it has. And John and I are feeling rather gleeful about it.

[If you wish to skip the below story and just find out about what this means for the REGEN you either have in your hands or on order, just jump to the very bottom of this post.]

Actually, some of you have heard a bit of exactly the improvement made to REGEN, and there is a short story behind that. It of course involves the recently popular Corning 3.OpticalUSB cable which some of you have bought (and some struggle with for compatibility/reliability reasons). 

The Corning is interesting, and is a more complicated device that it might seem. Corning had to design a small ASIC circuit to translate the semi-differential USB signaling to a format that could work with the timing of their optical transceivers. And the receiving end of the Corning cable needs a small voltage to run (which may in fact be 12 volts converted with a switching regulator at the send end, as the USB 5V from the computer would not survive their shortest 10 meters length), so there is a pair of 28awg wires run alongside the optical fiber. 

So not only does the Corning not provide galvanic isolation from the computer, but there are some other things going on with its power and USB ground wires. (As most of you know, the REGEN ignores the pin 1 +5VBUS wire from the computer or the Corning and does not connect it to anything since the REGEN has its own power and also makes clean 5V for DACs that need it.) Still, aside from the REGEN as hub often helping the Corning work with computers and DACs, having the Corning feeding the REGEN sounds good—especially in the bass as many have reported. 

Now John Swenson had speculated that cutting the Corning’s wires and feeding cleaner power to the receiver near the DAC end might help it further, so he bought one to listen to and planned to then dissect it. When I was at his place last weekend (before and after the fun ComputerAudiophile Berkeley lunch get-together), we were listening to the Corning with the REGEN (I brought a thumb drive will all my favorite test tracks), and indeed the Corning seems to significantly increase bass detail. Quite a nice combination.

Then John began speculating about the extra resistance that 10 meters of 28awg wire presents to the USB ground wire. The typical ground path in an audio system measures between 0.3-0.5 ohms. But that 33 feet of thin wire is going to be more like 3 ohms, and that forces some of the USB ground currents to take other paths. Maybe that is a good thing? So he carefully cut open one of the 6-inch USB cables I supply with the REGEN kit (for those who can't use the solid adapter), disconnected the shield entirely, and inserted a resistor in series with the black ground wire.

Now we had just listened to that same, unmodified, 6-inch cable feeding the REGEN (straight from John’s Squeezebox Touch just inches away—so it was Touch>6” cable>REGEN>solid adapter>Bottlehead DAC), and as I have posted elsewhere, I don’t like the sound of that 6” cable at all—even before the REGEN.

But now we go and put the same short cable—with resistor in series with the ground wire—back between the Squeezebox Touch and the REGEN. Oh my! *Exactly the same sort of benefit we heard from having the Corning cable feeding the REGEN.*Wow! No doubts at all. So we turned to each other and then raced to his engineering bench room to do the logical thing: LiftUSB input pin 4 of the REGEN and put the resistor between it and ground. (The data +/- pair of USB really does need a ground reference to work reliably.) Back to the studio to listen to it fed by the much smoother Supra USB cable instead of that nasty 6-incher. Nice.

After that, we of course wanted to hear what if any benefit the Corning might still have feeding the REGEN. And guess what, to our ears it sounded a little worse. *We think that the Corning’s benefit previously (before modifying the REGEN) overshadowed whatever effects its complex circuitry has. *

So as far as we can tell, *the Corning benefit was all about that extra resistance in the USB ground*. The resistor we chose to use is greater than the 3 ohms John calculated that the Corning inserts, but I’d prefer not to say what value we settled on.

On my drive home I realized that while we cut the shield with the 6-inch cable, when we first modified the REGEN we did not lift or insert resistance on its input jack shield contacts (virtually all USBhosts and devices end up connecting pin 4 ground to shield at some point), thus some ground currents were finding a path over the shield. I asked John why we still heard such a big difference, and he thinks it is because USB shield wires are far more symmetrical around the +/- data wires and thus they are more equally affected by whatever ground-noise currents and cancel out. I think very few USB cables shield the data wires separate from the power and ground, so the ground wire is not symmetrical about the data lines.

So that night John drilled out the ground vias for the jack, and listened with and without resistors there too. The board we had modified with the one resistor was one of the pre-production prototypes (not a production REGEN board with the layer stack-up he optimized impedance matching for), and I took that one home with me to listen to. Thus the REGEN John further modified and listened to was the production unit I gave him (his first with a case!), and he said it sounded even better when he was all done.

So that’s the long story. Maybe you will or will not continue to like the Corning cable with the updated REGEN. But you WILL be absolutely delighted by the sound of the new version.

__________________________________________________ ______________


Okay, now you all want to know what this means both for theUSB REGENs you have on order, and for those 95 units already in use by the earliest adopters.

Well I scrapped 150 bare boards that were about to be populated at my board house. The new version, with the 3 added ultra-low noise resistors, is at the PCB maker now for a 500 unit run. And I just mailed a 5-figure check to the assembly house to cover those 500 bare boards and parts and labor to stuff 350.

Previously, if your web order number was between 1091 and 1223, the promised shipping dates were from May 29 to June 3.*Orders in that range will now be shipped by June 10th.*Only a 1-week slip. Worth the wait I promise!

If your order number is 1224 or above, then the hold-up is not the new circuit boards, rather it is the aluminum cases. Japanese “Golden-week” holiday ends this coming Monday and so next week we will have an answer regarding delivery of the case order that will cover these latest orders. People in this group,*beginning with order 1224, already saw—at the time they ordered—a promised ship date of June 18th. So for this group there is no further delay at all.* In fact, your REGENs may ship 2-3 days earlier than that.

So once again: *All unshipped REGENs will be of the awesome new version! *

Some of you who already have a REGEN have ordered another (or several!) more—thank you. How will you tell the difference between the first version and the new one? Well, *sonically you will hear it right away*. But just to make it easy, and to not have to change the case markings (too late for my enclosure vendor), I selected an amber LED to replace the green one. Maybe that will match the amber dot LED of our JS-2 and in the “p” of UpTone on the web site. I am trying to avoid calling the new version “REGEN Amber,” but I know some of you might and that’s okay.

This post is already ridiculously long, so I am going to make another explaining how existing, “REGEN Green” owners can update to “Amber.”


----------



## jtwrace

Read this only if you already have a USB REGEN in your hands. 


> For the 95 people who have been enjoying the benefits of an UpTone USB REGEN for the past few weeks:
> I have thought long and hard about how to offer an upgrade to your devices in a convenient manner and at the lowest possible cost.
> 
> I am going to subsidize a part of the cost, but to do so I also have to put some strict guidelines in place so that time involved in the process is kept to a minimum. So here is the deal:
> ...


----------



## Jon L

Yippie!  Maybe I am happy I didn't get in on the initial run 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 It makes me double happy since it saves me money ordering the Corning cable, which I was eyeing..


----------



## Duke40

jon l said:


> Yippie!  Maybe I am happy I didn't get in on the initial run
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am on the initial run ... and I also ordered the Corning cable last week ...
  
 Initially,  I thought I wasted the money on the Corning USB Optical cable until I saw this ...
  


> > I am going to subsidize a part of the cost, but to do so I also have to put some strict guidelines in place so that time involved in the process is kept to a minimum. So here is the deal:
> 
> 
> *$45*


 
  
 Then it sunk in that I can utilise the original Regen board (just need to make a case) and the Corning cable, and still have the new improved Regen version for my HP rig.
  
 So, I will just move the original Regen's PCB out of the case, power it with a LiPo and the Corning cable, place it on my speaker rig.
  
 I have not wasted much money that way (that is, I can still utilise the original Regen/Corning combo) ... and use the new improved Regen on my HP rig.
  
  
 One thing that was not lost on me was "*I am going to subsidize a part of the cost*," so I will effectively be getting a 2nd new and improved (no Corning cable required) for $45 ... that is, I can keep and use both versions of the Regen's (I don't need the other accessories that came with the Regen, just need to build a case for the original Regen PCB when I take it out and swap in the new PCB board) .
    
 This new version is just continuos improvement as far as I am concerned , it was not fixing a problem with the initial run, it was saving us money on buying the Corning cables, and providing even better SQ improvements.
  
 Both new customers ... and early adopters are being taken care of.
  
 In one fell swoop, this manufacturer with the impressive way he conducts his business *got my brand loyalty, in a way that no amount of advertising could ever do.*    As an early adopter I think what he has offered is *above & beyond*.
  
 Now if they ever offered a 19V Linear PSU,   well that certainly would have my attention (and my wallet's).
  
 By the way, I have no association with any manufacturers (they may not even care for my postings),  *I just post *(and rarely at that)  when I really like something, *when I am truly impressed* ... this is one of those times.


----------



## KritiKal

I'm glad it will come improved, I'm just not glad that I found out about not using the Corning cable the other day after spending $145AUD and it shipping a whole 12 hours before I found out!


----------



## mtruong34

Just got in on the 3rd batch. Can't wait to post my impressions. I'll be using this with a Geek Pulse Xfi and LPS4. Reading the threads, does it mean I can power the Regen safely with one of the free 12V outlets of the LPS4? I believe the Pulse does not use USB power except for handshake. Anyone else using this same configuration?


----------



## Superdad

mtruong34 said:


> Just got in on the 3rd batch. Can't wait to post my impressions. I'll be using this with a Geek Pulse Xfi and LPS4. Reading the threads, does it mean I can power the Regen safely with one of the free 12V outlets of the LPS4? I believe the Pulse does not use USB power except for handshake. Anyone else using this same configuration?


 
  
 Thanks for your order.
 Yes, you should be fine.  But please refer to my guidelines in the USB REGEN FAQ here: http://uptoneaudio.com/pages/usb-regen-questions-and-answers
  
 Regards,
 --Alex C.
 UpTone Audio


----------



## Duke40

Found this on the UpTone Audio website under Regen FAQ ....
  
"If you know that your DAC does not need any bus power at all—or for sure only just for initial handshake—then you really don't have to worry. Our USB hub chip and clock together draw about 50mA at 3.3V, so it would be almost impossible to overheat that second regulator. Even 20V dropped to 3.3V will, at 50mA be only about 0.84 watts."
  
 So for your question ...
 ", does it mean I can power the Regen safely with one of the free 12V outlets of the LPS4? I believe the Pulse does not use USB power except for handshake"
  
 My thoughts are yes for the Geek Pulse Xfi ... though it may be worthwhile to contact LH Labs support to *confirm* it just needs it for the handshake.
 Can't hurt to confirm, the LH Labs guys seem great and approachable.
  
 I checked out the Geek LPS4,  it has 0.5A and 1.2A current for it's 12V outlets .... the USB Regen just needs 0.05A for it's hub chip & clock ... so all looks good.
  
  
 My DAC just needs USB power for the handshake *only* ... I am using 9V to power the USB Regen and it just feels room temperature, it is difficult for me to detect any warmth.
  
 To help answer your question about *12V for the USB Regen,*  I have just got started powering the USB Regen using 12V from a LPS ... will report back in a couple of hours if I can detect any warmth from the USB Regen.


----------



## Duke40

currawong said:


> Nice find. If I hadn't a bunch of other similar things I might have nabbed one of these.


 

 I still think it is worthwhile to try.
  
 I have one of those similar things (the Vaunix usb hub) where the focus seems to be ultra clean 5V power .... and I quite like it .
  
 Though the Regen goes further by not just focussing on power, but the Data side of USB, and regenerating the USB signal.
 I believe the hub clock they use is 1 picosecond  (1PS).
 To my layman's understanding it is providing a more optimal USB data signal to the DAC's USB input.
  
 While I still* like* the Vaunix,  I really *love* the Regen. It's a Like VS Love difference.
  
 I have been a die hard S/PDIF devotee, always struggled to enjoy USB, until now.
  
 I enjoy your youtube reviews by the way. Appreciate the effort you put into them.


----------



## Duke40

mtruong34 said:


> Just got in on the 3rd batch. Can't wait to post my impressions. I'll be using this with a Geek Pulse Xfi and LPS4. Reading the threads, does it mean I can power the Regen safely with one of the free 12V outlets of the LPS4? I believe the Pulse does not use USB power except for handshake. Anyone else using this same configuration?


 
  
 My DAC just needs USB power for the handshake *only* ... I am using 9V to power the USB Regen and it just feels room temperature, it is difficult for me to detect any warmth.
  
 To help answer your question about *12V for the USB Regen,*  I have powered my USB Regen using a 12V from a LPS ... for the last 6 hours.
  
*Result* :It is still difficult for me to detect any warmth from the USB Regen.
  
 I believe if the Geek Pulse Xfi USB input just use the 5V for handshaking, then you will be fine.


----------



## mtruong34

Thanks Duke & Superdad! Very helpful group here.


----------



## pompon

jtwrace said:


> I'm surprised nobody is interested in this product.  It has the makings to be a massive breakthrough.




Audiophilleo do already this for many years.
In final, it's solve nothing. What is in from of it still matter.


----------



## jtwrace

pompon said:


> Audiophilleo do already this for many years.
> In final, it's solve nothing. What is in from of it still matter.


 
 I think you're mistaken.


----------



## jtwrace

kritikal said:


> I'm glad it will come improved, I'm just not glad that I found out about not using the Corning cable the other day after spending $145AUD and it shipping a whole 12 hours before I found out!


 
 Can you not return it?


----------



## KritiKal

jtwrace said:


> Can you not return it?




Can and will,  but it's a month screw around from The US to Aus then back to The US when I could have bought something better (_suited for the purpose now_) locally and had it by now too.


----------



## Duke40

kritikal said:


> jtwrace said:
> 
> 
> > Can you not return it?
> ...


 

 KritiKal,  I got mine from B&H Photo is the U.S., and it is still on it's way to Aus ... is that where you got your Corning?
  
 I am just going thru the returns policy on the B&H website,  looks like I can return it.
 Still in two minds whether to keep it ... may keep it for the Regen (green) and use the combo on my speaker rig ... then use the Regen (amber) on the HP rig
 as that is where I do most of my listening these days.


----------



## KritiKal

duke40 said:


> KritiKal,  I got mine from B&H Photo is the U.S., and it is still on it's way to Aus ... is that where you got your Corning?
> 
> I am just going thru the returns policy on the B&H website,  looks like I can return it.
> Still in two minds whether to keep it ... may keep it for the Regen (green) and use the combo on my speaker rig ... then use the Regen (amber) on the HP rig
> as that is where I do most of my listening these days.




Indeed it is. Everywhere else had ridiculous shipping costs to Australia. Near on $100 for a cable. I had a good read of their return terms too and it doesn't seem a big deal to return it, even if it has been used.


----------



## Duke40

> Indeed it is. Everywhere else had ridiculous shipping costs to Australia. Near on $100 for a cable. I had a good read of their return terms too and it doesn't seem a big deal to return it, even if it has been used.


 
  
 Thanks for confirming ... agree, reading the terms it should not be a big deal , if I decide to return it.
  
 I have had the Corning on my watch list on a well known auction site for about 6 months ... though the only place that would ship to OZ wanted $USD 70.
 I just could not press the buy button if shipping was nearly the price of the goods.


----------



## jagu

Ordered a REGEN to pair my micro iDSD instead of going for the ifi iusb. Shipping to Sweden and hopefully customs will miss the package so I don't have to pay the extra tax! 

I just tapatalked!


----------



## Jokanok

Hi everyone
  
 Before going on this boat I would like to sort out one and the other.
  
 I am looking to improve my audio-pc with a bunch of regulated linear power supplies and different filters for the HDD, fan, CPU etc.
  
 I just wonder whether the above would still be necessary if I would place the Regen between my PC and DAC.
  
 If the Regen is able to clean up most (or wishfully maybe all) of  the electronical noise coming from a PC, I can as well use a noisy PC?
  
 Any experienced users who tried the Regen with as well a noisy-PC as a clean-PC, made the equation between the two, and hopefully found only minor differences in sound quality?
  
 Thanks in advance for the countless replies!


----------



## 514077

How does one find out which batch they're on?


----------



## crazychile

uelong said:


> How does one find out which batch they're on?


 

 When did you place your order?
  
 Last time I looked the website said they were taking orders for the July delivery.  Going from memory, but another forum reported (from the company) that the June shipment sold out sometime in mid May, (I think).


----------



## crazychile

crazychile said:


> When did you place your order?
> 
> Last time I looked the website said they were taking orders for the July delivery.  Going from memory, but another forum reported (from the company) that the June shipment sold out sometime in mid May, (I think).


 

  I just checked the announcement from another forum. It looks like if you ordered before 5/17 you should get it sometime in June. Otherwise it's early July or later.


----------



## 514077

crazychile said:


> When did you place your order?
> 
> Last time I looked the website said they were taking orders for the July delivery.  Going from memory, but another forum reported (from the company) that the June shipment sold out sometime in mid May, (I think).


 

 I placed my order April 23rd.  I'm not sure what order number I am.


----------



## KritiKal

uelong said:


> I placed my order April 23rd.  I'm not sure what order number I am.




I ordered mine on the 25th of May and it is around the 50th order of the second batch. Because you ordered a couple of days before me, I would daresay you are around the 30th-40th of the second batch and will ship around the 8th of June, perhaps before.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

I just recieved shipping notification for my Amber.


----------



## Duke40

vhsownsbeta said:


> I just recieved shipping notification for my Amber.


 

 I am sure you will love the Regen when it arrives ... I do, and I have tried so many things to "solve" USB like;
  
 Corning USB cable
 Olimex USB-ISO
 Music Fidelity V-Link
 Kimber Kable USB Ag
 Kimber Kable USB Cu
 iFi iPurifier
 iFi Gemini 
 iFi Mercury
  
 The iFi gear is really good quality ... and if the Regen did not exist I would still have it .... though the REGEN was just such a significant improvement over the rest of the things I have tried.
  
 The USB Regen is the only USB item of everything listed above that I have kept. 
  
 I am one of the 95 or so early adopters ("Green" Regen) and it has just turned the 10th of June so I have ordered the circuit board upgrade to "Amber" today.
 So I will be getting the new & improved version just like everyone else.   Can't wait.


----------



## KritiKal

Mine has shipped too. Unfortunately, I'll get mine a little later than most, but I'm estimating arrival by the end of next week. I place orders regularly with a vendor (not audio related) based in CA shipped priority mail and I alqays receive them in 6-8 days. I'm hoping the Regen is no different, but it ultimately depends on where it leaves the US.

Duke40 What was the shipping time on your Regen (as you're in Aus too)?


----------



## Duke40

kritikal said:


> Mine has shipped too. Unfortunately, I'll get mine a little later than most, but I'm estimating arrival by the end of next week. I place orders regularly with a vendor (not audio related) based in CA shipped priority mail and I alqays receive them in 6-8 days. I'm hoping the Regen is no different, but it ultimately depends on where it leaves the US.
> 
> @Duke40 What was the shipping time on your Regen (as you're in Aus too)?


 

 It was 7 or 8 days I think ... actually it was the quickest shipping from USA to OZ that I have ever encountered.
  
 I actually placed an order with another audio company and they took 9 days .... just to post it!    Let alone for it to get to OZ.
  
 Anyway, I found the shipping time from UpTone Audio to be excellent.  Hope that helps.


----------



## KritiKal

duke40 said:


> It was 7 or 8 days I think ... actually it was the quickest shipping from USA to OZ that I have ever encountered.
> 
> I actually placed an order with another audio company and they took 9 days .... just to post it!    Let alone for it to get to OZ.
> 
> Anyway, I found the shipping time from UpTone Audio to be excellent.  Hope that helps.




Indeed it does.  I'm not sure who picked up the slack (USPS or Aus Post), but Priority Mail has more or less halved in postage time from USA to Aus-IME-since around the start of this year.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

I'm in Aus too 

Duke40: have you experimented much with different cables upstream to the regen?


----------



## Duke40

Quote: 





vhsownsbeta said:


> I'm in Aus too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I tried the following cables upstream ...
  
 Corning USB Optical cable
 Kimber Kable USB Ag
 iFi Mercury
iFi Gemini 
 Free USB cable that came with my Printer
 Free USB cable that came with the USB Regen
 Free USB A Male to B Male Adapter that came with the USB Regen
  
 The source I used was either MacBook running on Battery ... or just my iPhone 5 (with the Onkyo HF Player app , playing my 24/96 HD Tracks music).
 Mainly tested with my iPhone 5 ... might sound a bit weird for my best audiophile source, but I quite like it (better than my MacBook ... or my modded Oppo BDP-103, and my tweaked Mac Mini is now retired).
  
  
 Rating starting from worse to best ...
  
 7.
 Free USB cable that came with the USB Regen
 .... not good at all ... though to be fair it is just an inexpensive cable that UpTone Audio includes as most audiophiles will probably have there own preference for usb cable
 ... plus including a very cheap cable kept the costs for the USB Regen down, so that was a smart move.
  
 6.
 Corning USB Optical cable
 ... MacBook ... slight improvement ... though I wondered a bit what all the fuss was about with the Corning USB Optical
 ... iPhone ... negative
  
 5.
 Free USB Printer Cable
 ... MacBook ... I liked it better than the Corning
 ... iPhone ... negative
  
 4.
 Kimber Kable USB Ag
 ... better than a freebie USB cable, but not great
  
 3.
 iFi Mercury
 ... better than the Corning or Kimber ...now we are getting somewhere...  impressive build ... if I needed to use a USB cable, I would consider this the minimum for acceptable quality.
  
 2.
 iFi Gemini
 ... a very small improvement over the iFi Mercury ... and that was with critical listening 
  
 1.
 USB A Male to B Male Adapter (that was included with the USB Regen).
  
 ....Then I tried the free USB A Male to B Male Adapter that came with the USB Regen .... and liked that most of all.
 I had a spare one of these adapters that came with my printer ... so I was able to do ...
 Adapter >> USB Regen >> Adapter
 and that was the winning combination ... so I sold all my USB cables.
  
 I then went onto eBay and bought some silver plated USB adapters (must be audiophile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and some gold plated ones for another test.
 Could not really her any difference between the two types.
 Still it was an inexpensive experiment ... those Adapters only cost about $1 each.
  
 I do not need the length of a USB cable ... so I am happy just to use the USB Adapters (and they sounded best of all).
  
 I wondered about this ... and I have read that people notice that a shorter length of a USB cable sounds better (even from the same manufacturer).
 You can not get any shorter than a USB Adapter  
 Plus it is a nice win when the most inexpensive option actually sounds the best ... and how often does that happen in audio ?
  
 If I actually had a need for the length of a USB cable (that is , if my source was on a different shelf of my hifi rack to my DAC),
 then I would have kept either the iFi Mercury or iFi Gemini.
  
 I also hear very good reports about the Supra USB Cable though have not tested it.
 The Supra is at least real world price level, rather than having a crazy audiophile markup applied ... though I think that the iFi cables also fit into an acceptable price bracket
 (that is less than $200 ... and the shortest iFi Mercury is $99 I believe).    I would have stopped with the iFi cables ... if I had not thought to test using USB adapters both upstream & downstream.
  
 Anyway, that is my experience.


----------



## blasjw

Just pulled the trigger on one of these bad boys.  Looking forward to trying it out when it arrives, presumably early next month.


----------



## zilch0md

duke40 said:


> I tried the following cables upstream ...
> 
> Corning USB Optical cable
> Kimber Kable USB Ag
> ...


 
  
 You've done a lot of trailblazing, thanks!  
  
 I guess we shouldn't be surprised that* cable-free connections* between your Source > USB Regen > DAC have yielded the best audible performance.
  
 For logistical reasons, the shortest connection I can have between my source and the USB Regen is about 25 inches, which is covered very nicely by the 28-inch (0.7 meter) Supra cable you've mentioned.
  
 Thanks!
  
 Mike


----------



## Chodi

I've been reading about this Regen product in this thread and also on C/A and I am interested in giving it a try as many user report positive results. I live outside the US and can find nothing on  their web site about international shipping charges? Can anyone who has ordered from outside the US explain how they handle export shipping? I suppose they would use USPS but I see nothing on their site about this.
  
 Anyone outside the US who has ordered one of these might report how they handle export shipping?


----------



## vhsownsbeta

chodi said:


> I've been reading about this Regen product in this thread and also on C/A and I am interested in giving it a try as many user report positive results. I live outside the US and can find nothing on  their web site about international shipping charges? Can anyone who has ordered from outside the US explain how they handle export shipping? I suppose they would use USPS but I see nothing on their site about this.
> 
> Anyone outside the US who has ordered one of these might report how they handle export shipping?


 

 USD$24 via USPS to australia


----------



## Music Path

duke40 said:


> I tried the following cables upstream ...
> 
> Corning USB Optical cable
> Kimber Kable USB Ag
> ...


 
 I atually was tempting the mercury usb cable, but know i saw this. what adapter are you refering to? the only thing that i dont like about mecrcury, is that you have to use a cheap adapter for idsd. I think in case its the regen which is making the diference, at least you have some cable to conect. 0.25 minimum. lol but i agree, shorter, better.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

music path said:


> I atually was tempting the mercury usb cable, but know i saw this. what adapter are you refering to? the only thing that i dont like about mecrcury, is that you have to use a cheap adapter for idsd. I think in case its the regen which is making the diference, at least you have some cable to conect. 0.25 minimum. lol but i agree, shorter, better.


 

 This is the type of adapter included with the Regen. There is also a 6" cable for DACs with clearance issues around the USB input. The adapter (i.e. the shortest path between Regen and your DAC) is preferable though...


----------



## Duke40

vhsownsbeta .... yes, that's the one !  Thanks for posting an image.  Good on you.


----------



## seeteeyou

Have you guys tried powering USB ReGen with 7.4V batteries yet?
  
 http://www.gerbing.eu/bestanden/handleidingen/eng/Manual_B7V-2500.pdf
 http://www.gerbing.eu/en/products/7v-products/7v-batteries/bat-li-722-7-4v-2-2a-oplaadbare-batterij
 http://www.amazon.com/Gerbings-7v-Lithium-Battery-Red/dp/B00J13T08A
 http://www.amazon.com/Gerbing-Extended-Life-Rechargeable-Battery-Remote/dp/B00EEJ1OU8
  
 http://www.thewarmingstore.com/gerbings-heated-clothing-rechargeable-battery.html
 http://www.thewarmingstore.com/gerbing-extended-life-battery-with-remote.html
 http://www.thewarmingstore.com/gerbing-lithium-ion-battery.html
 http://www.thewarmingstore.com/gerbing-next-gen-battery.html
 http://www.thewarmingstore.com/gerbing-battery.html


----------



## Duke40

I tried my XPAL 18000 LiPo .... it has 9 to 12 V as one of it's output .... though I much preferred 9V from my Linear PSU  (HD-Plex).
  
 In general, I find Linear PSU's a step forward in comparison to batteries for most things ... but that is just me making a gross simplification,  afterall my current favourite source is an iPad or iPhone and they run off batteries.
  
 Believe zilch0md is much more advanced than I ... in respect to batteries.... it will be interesting to see his thoughts on ... battery VS Linear PSU for powering the Regen (believe he has the TeraDak 9V).      Though I do not believe his Regen has shipped yet.
  
 If you are interested in battery technology has you seen this from PPA (Paul Pang Audio)
 http://ppaproduct.blogspot.tw/2014/09/battery-adapter.html
 Have not tried it.   Just a thought.
  
 .... and going back on topic ... back to the USB Regen ....  noticed that UpTone Audio mentioned 92 of the initial 95 owners selected to get the upgraded circuit board (and we are only 6 days into the 1 month that this option is available for)... a very high adoption rate.    The Regen is making a universal improvement across a range of audio systems.


----------



## KritiKal

Regen arrived (yesterday). I've only had an hour with it and A/B'ing with a Micro iDSD is difficult, but there's definitely an improvement in clarity (esp. with side images) and adds transparency and depth to the soundstage. So far, so good. Just does everything in the right way to bring realism. I'll get accustomed with it over the next few days then make a comparison without, as that's usually an easier comparison than A/B'ing. At this moment though it's definitely a worthwhile purchase and I'm sure this will only become a nore concrete opinion!


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> Regen arrived (yesterday). I've only had an hour with it and A/B'ing with a Micro iDSD is difficult, but there's definitely an improvement in clarity (esp. with side images) and adds transparency and depth to the soundstage. So far, so good. Just does everything in the right way to bring realism. I'll get accustomed with it over the next few days then make a comparison without, as that's usually an easier comparison than A/B'ing. At this moment though it's definitely a worthwhile purchase and I'm sure this will only become a nore concrete opinion!




If you had some of the ifi cables, could you make an comparition? Since they are more or less same priced and same goal.


----------



## KritiKal

music path said:


> If you had some of the ifi cables, could you make an comparition? Since they are more or less same priced and same goal.




It does a whole lot more than a cable, but I guess you mean the iPower, iPurifier and Gemini combination. I don't own any of those though. I bought the Regen instead of that combo and I'm glad I did, as everything points to the Regen bejng superior.

Still I have a Mercury cable coming (eventually), so I will be able to test it with the Regen and compare to other cables. That's when the vendor ships it. It's in stock and it'll be a 5 week wait tomorrow!


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> It does a whole lot more than a cable, but I guess you mean the iPower, iPurifier and Gemini combination. I don't own any of those though. I bought the Regen instead of that combo and I'm glad I did, as everything points to the Regen bejng superior.
> 
> Still I have a Mercury cable coming (eventually), so I will be able to test it with the Regen and compare to other cables. That's when the vendor ships it. It's in stock and it'll be a 5 week wait tomorrow!


 
 Ok, well i m gettIing curioser, or i get this, or the usb mercury, dont want spend alot just to reduce noise. Btw what tipe of input is that, which comes with the Regen?


----------



## jagu

chodi said:


> I've been reading about this Regen product in this thread and also on C/A and I am interested in giving it a try as many user report positive results. I live outside the US and can find nothing on  their web site about international shipping charges? Can anyone who has ordered from outside the US explain how they handle export shipping? I suppose they would use USPS but I see nothing on their site about this.
> 
> Anyone outside the US who has ordered one of these might report how they handle export shipping?




$23.50 to Sweden. Priority mail, 12-18 days for delivery. Shipped today. 

I just tapatalked!


----------



## jagu

kritikal said:


> Regen arrived (yesterday). I've only had an hour with it and A/B'ing with a Micro iDSD is difficult, but there's definitely an improvement in clarity (esp. with side images) and adds transparency and depth to the soundstage. So far, so good. Just does everything in the right way to bring realism. I'll get accustomed with it over the next few days then make a comparison without, as that's usually an easier comparison than A/B'ing. At this moment though it's definitely a worthwhile purchase and I'm sure this will only become a nore concrete opinion!




Are you using the REGEN adapter together with the micro adapter and what are your impressions so far ? I'm thinking of getting the Audioquest dragontail to replace the adapters. 

I just tapatalked!


----------



## tgx78

Exasound claims their ZeroJitter asynchronous USB interface with Galvanic isolation between the USB subsystem and the DAC circuitry eliminates ground loop noise and blocks computer–generated interferences. As well, in the case of the e20 DAC which I have, sound data is requested by the FPGA core and stored in the device FIFO memory buffer. The FPGA core makes sure that the buffer never gets empty during playback. Data from the buffer is streamed to the DAC chip. The precision of the timing of the output stream is determined only by the DAC oscillators and it is not degraded in any way by the PC clocks or by delays caused by the USB interface. 
 So when I heard about the UpTone Regen, I wasn't sure getting this device will result in better SQ for my DAC.
 Well well well.. Regen (amber) came few days ago and I can safely say, Yes it is quite amazing and my system sounds noticeably better.
 With REGEN in place, I do notice cleaner vocal and darker background (deeper stage). Individual instruments are now easier to follow in busy passages. I am noticing this improvements with my modded HE-560 and modded Magnepan 3.7


----------



## KritiKal

jagu said:


> Are you using the REGEN adapter together with the micro adapter and what are your impressions so far ? I'm thinking of getting the Audioquest dragontail to replace the adapters.
> 
> I just tapatalked!




I'm plugging an Audioquest Cinnamon into the Regen then a male to female USB A adapter from the Regen to the iDSD. You could use a small cable, and it's worth testing, but using an adapter over a cable is the better idea as they're low impedance/resistance and should sound better. You need only use a cable if you can't make the adapters work connection wise. You might think that the more expensive option is the better option (as I did to start off with) but in this case, the cheapest is the most superior.

Once I get a handle on the Regen sound I'll be trying out a no cable configuration (PC/Phone>Adapter>Regen>Adapter>iDSD Micro) to see what changes that brings.


----------



## Duke40

kritikal said:


> jagu said:
> 
> 
> > Are you using the REGEN adapter together with the micro adapter and what are your impressions so far ? I'm thinking of getting the Audioquest dragontail to replace the adapters.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah ...  I actually struggled with this concept ... a lot ... that cheaper can sound superior ... it kind of goes against the grain of all audiophile thinking
 in that we are kind of conditioned to assume ;
  
 greater expense = better sound quality
  
 though I trust my ears and these inexpensive USB A Male to B Male Adapters just sounded better than any USB cable I compared them to. 
  
 I will be interested in hearing your report on a "no cable configuration" ... it would be interesting to hear your thoughts.
 You may very well have different results to me ... and I would be happy with that .... either way ... if you can confirm my observations ... or find different results.
  
 Cool either way to hear your findings .... after all my observations is just one person .... better to have more observations, better data set.


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> I'm plugging an Audioquest Cinnamon into the Regen then a male to female USB A adapter from the Regen to the iDSD. You could use a small cable, and it's worth testing, but using an adapter over a cable is the better idea as they're low impedance/resistance and should sound better. You need only use a cable if you can't make the adapters work connection wise. You might think that the more expensive option is the better option (as I did to start off with) but in this case, the cheapest is the most superior.
> 
> Once I get a handle on the Regen sound I'll be trying out a no cable configuration (PC/Phone>*Adapter*>Regen>Adapter>iDSD Micro) to see what changes that brings.


 
 What adapter are you using here? Cant recognise that usb entry tipe for input.


----------



## Music Path

music path said:


> What adapter are you using here? Cant recognise that usb entry tipe for input.




Ok, i got confused, tipe B, but on the pictures it seemed to be something bigger.


----------



## Jeff Y

Could someone please comment on this versus the Schiit WYRD? I have read the technical comparison done by the designer of the regen but I am yet to have seen a comparison between them in terms of sound. I've been looking for a USB interface/cleaner for my Chord Hugo and I'm down to either the WYRD or the regen. If this has been discussed already on this thread or some other thread, please let me know where and what page if possible.
 Thank you.


----------



## KritiKal

music path said:


> Ok, i got confused, tipe B, but on the pictures it seemed to be something bigger.


 

 Yeah, it will be the one included with the Regen between the PC and Regen. Then a type A male to female from Regen to the Micro. Then I'll buy a Micro A to B to use with my phone.


----------



## KritiKal

Well, my desktop PC (which was really built for gaming, but I've since tweaked it for better audio performance) doesn't really stack up against my laptop. First time I've used my laptop for audio was last night with the Regen, and it sounds decent! With that in mind, the Regen makes a more noticeable improvement with my desktop PC than it does with my laptop. Using both with the Regen, the laptop is still better, but that's to be expected. However, it does make my PC above bareable, where I could hardly listen to it before.
  
 I think it's time for me to buy/build an audio PC. Having said that, I don't know which components would be best in an audiophile computer. *So can anyone recommend a good audiophile computer, preferably a laptop? *I'd be looking to spend *about $1000 *(aud) *max of* *$1500*.
  
 [@]Duke40[/@] No worries, I'd be happy to share them.  I'll be pulling out the laptop tonight, so I'll do a little experimentation. Hoping it will work well, as it will mean I can take the Regen with me to Uni, etc.. without being (too) cumbersome.
  
 At the moment though I'm having my mind blown with Steve Wilson's stereo remix of King Crimson's _Lark's Tongues In Aspic_. It's a seriously well recorded and produced album, right up there in terms of quality with any audiophile recording. It helps that  the music is excellent too!


----------



## Duke40

kritikal said:


> I think it's time for me to buy/build an audio PC. Having said that, I don't know which components would be best in an audiophile computer. *So can anyone recommend a good audiophile computer, preferably a laptop? *I'd be looking to spend *about $1000 *(aud) *max of* *$1500*.


 
  
 As you already have a gaming PC which I assume has plenty of grunt ... have you thought of adding a NAA (Network Audio Adapter) like the SoTM SMS-100 (I think they cost about $650 over at Addicted2Audio).  You could then use something like HQ Player which seems very popular for doing PCM to DSD playback ... and I think it is designed to have one PC do the heavy grunt work (like your existing gaming PC) , then stream to the NAA, which helps isolate noise getting into your DAC.
  
 Or a streamer ... like the soon to be released Auralic Aries Mini (Addicted2Audio has that listed at $599). Think is will be available in August.
  
 Or build a C.A.P.S. pc (detailed over on CA).
  
 I used to have a Mac Mini before I retired it ... compared it to my MacBook Pro ... the Mac Mini won ... 
  
 Take my thoughts with a grain of salt ... I am currently really enjoying either my iPhone 5 or iPad 4 as a source (sounds much better than my MacBook Pro laptop).
 $10 for Onkyo HF Player was some of the best money I ever spent (could finally play my HD Tracks 24/96 music from an iDevice).
 Don't know why an iDevice is sounding so good to me these days ... previously I just used them for convenience.


----------



## KritiKal

duke40 said:


> As you already have a gaming PC which I assume has plenty of grunt ... have you thought of adding a NAA (Network Audio Adapter) like the SoTM SMS-100 (I think they cost about $650 over at Addicted2Audio).  You could then use something like HQ Player which seems very popular for doing PCM to DSD playback ... and I think it is designed to have one PC do the heavy grunt work (like your existing gaming PC) , then stream to the NAA, which helps isolate noise getting into your DAC.
> 
> Or a streamer ... like the soon to be released Auralic Aries Mini (Addicted2Audio has that listed at $599). Think is will be available in August.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's a few years old now, but still has plenty of processing power, much more than most home office PCs. 
 I have considered it, and may consider it some more, but I'm leaning towards investigating something portable first. I like the look of the Surface Pro, actually. Portable, fan-less, low power, runs Windows, just as much power as a decent desktop PC, etc... I'm thinking I could set up a couple of profiles on it, one for general daily use and one optimised for audio. The more I think about it, the better it seems!
  
 I actually haven't been a fan of PCM>DSD conversion. I find it kills dynamics, and theoretically it does as some amplitude information is lost in translation. I also like the VST plugin capability that comes with J River (Parametric EQ for flat response) but this is the only reason I chose J River over HQ Player. Technically I could EQ with HQ Player, but it's a _convoluted_ process (pun intended!).
  
 I like my phone too, and also love Onkyo HF Player (paid version)! I would have to put my phone on par with my laptop, but I haven't compared them extensively. I have an adapter on the way for my phone now, so I look forward to putting them head to head with the Regen. For me, the Onkyo HF player's EQ is a godsend on Android, as it's one of a kind (although there are quite a few options on iOS.) It's also far easier to use than any other EQ I've come across on PC.


----------



## KritiKal

Just played with the adapter. I was finding it hard to find any discernible difference. There was _maybe_ better refined bass, and _maybe_ a wider soundstage. At the very least though, it was on par with the AQ Cinnamon cable, and there's nothing wrong with that! I'll play a little more in the future and see if I can notice a difference.
 But... due to the way that the iFi powers itself, if you disconnect the USB cable it powers itself from the internal battery, and once you plug the USB cable back in it continues to use the internal battery. Due to this, you need to turn it off before plugging the USB cable in, then plug it back in again. There were a few times where I forgot to do this, and the difference is now easily noticeable. Just the clean USB power alone makes a big difference adding body, transparency, a more realistic soundstage and just generally an extra level of realism, as if a veil has been lifted. I'm really starting to fall in love with the Regen, using it with the iDSD Micro and S-EM6 (Equalised), it's as if the artists are performing right in front of you. I'm looking forward to seeing what a better DAC/Amp combo can do (I've decided on the iDSD Pro). But for now, I'm very satisfied.


----------



## Duke40

kritikal said:


> duke40 said:
> 
> 
> > As you already have a gaming PC which I assume has plenty of grunt ... have you thought of adding a NAA (Network Audio Adapter) like the SoTM SMS-100 (I think they cost about $650 over at Addicted2Audio).  You could then use something like HQ Player which seems very popular for doing PCM to DSD playback ... and I think it is designed to have one PC do the heavy grunt work (like your existing gaming PC) , then stream to the NAA, which helps isolate noise getting into your DAC.
> ...


 
  
 RE the Surface Pro ... yeah I was actually thinking something similar if the iPad Pro comes out this year (based on my enjoyment of just using an iDevice as a source).
  
 Anyway, plenty of options hardware wise and some nice gear is coming out this year.
  
 RE  PCM > DSD conversion ... I have mixed feelings,  like it for Jazz & Vocals .... though prefer straight PCM for Rock.
 I have JRiver too ... though I am currently trialling Roon and enjoying it.


----------



## Duke40

kritikal said:


> Just played with the adapter. I was finding it hard to find any discernible difference. There was _maybe_ better refined bass, and _maybe_ a wider soundstage. At the very least though, it was on par with the AQ Cinnamon cable, and there's nothing wrong with that! I'll play a little more in the future and see if I can notice a difference.
> But... due to the way that the iFi powers itself, if you disconnect the USB cable it powers itself from the internal battery, and once you plug the USB cable back in it continues to use the internal battery. Due to this, you need to turn it off before plugging the USB cable in, then plug it back in again. There were a few times where I forgot to do this, and the difference is now easily noticeable. Just the clean USB power alone makes a big difference adding body, transparency, a more realistic soundstage and just generally an extra level of realism, as if a veil has been lifted. I'm really starting to fall in love with the Regen, using it with the iDSD Micro and S-EM6 (Equalised), it's as if the artists are performing right in front of you. I'm looking forward to seeing what a better DAC/Amp combo can do (I've decided on the iDSD Pro). But for now, I'm very satisfied.


 
  
  
 Getting back on topic .... about the USB Regen ....
  
  
 So that is ....     AQ Cinnamon cable >> iFi iUSB >> USB Regen >> USB Adapter >> iFi iDSD    ???
 I think I got it right,  well partially I think  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So having the iFi iUSB before the USB Regen still provides benefits ?
  
 Interesting post ... just want to clarify to make sure I understand it right. Thanks.


----------



## semeniub

My REGEN arrived the other day, and I immediately went overboard to see what it could do.
  
 HQPlayer on OSX upsampling to DSD256, outputting through a Corning optic USB cable, into an iFI iUSB powered by an LPS, outputting through a split USB cable, into a REGEN powered by an LPS, outputting through the supplied USB adapter into an iFI micro iDSD, outputting to an iFI iCAN headphone amp, and listening through some Audeze LCD2 cans.
  
 I'm not going to describe things in the usual audiophile way, but I will say that this first contact with the REGEN in this setup left me (2 hours later) feeling dizzy and totally immersed in the music I heard, in a good way.
  
 I will plug and play to see if I can make use of the Corning cable and the REGEN only.


----------



## KritiKal

duke40 said:


> Getting back on topic .... about the USB Regen ....
> 
> 
> So that is ....     AQ Cinnamon cable >> iFi iUSB >> USB Regen >> USB Adapter >> iFi iDSD    ???
> ...




No iUSB, I bought the Regen instead of the iUSB Power + iPurifier setup. I was still thinking of getting these before, but one by one I came to the conclusion that they weren't necessary. As you've mentioned, the iPurifier only adds some colour to the sound with the Regen. Also, from what I've read over at CA (and I've read every post of all 3 threads (I should really make an account!)) the Regen ignores the inbound USB power, so an iUSB is redundant. So, I have complete faith in your impressions of the combo. 

So, it was PC >> AQ Cinnamon >> Adapter >> Regen >> Adapter >> iDSD Micro >> S-EM6.

I realised late at night last night that I actually had everything to hook up my phone, so I've been playing with it this evening.

So, it was Galaxy S4 >> Forza Audio Works OTG 5cm USB cable >> Adapter (one that came with the Regen) >> Regen >> Adapter >> iDSD Micro >> S-EM6.

This is definitely the best setup so far, best of all I can relax anywhere in the house that has a power point and listen. I noticed that I've got a ground loop though, I'm guessing it's due to my fridge (it was running at the time, and it unfortunately runs often). Need to figure out how to get rid of it, as holding my hand on the iDSD (which removes it), isn't really practical!


----------



## zilch0md

semeniub said:


> My REGEN arrived the other day, and I immediately went overboard to see what it could do.
> 
> HQPlayer on OSX upsampling to DSD256, outputting through a Corning optic USB cable, into an iFI iUSB powered by an LPS, outputting through a split USB cable, into a REGEN powered by an LPS, outputting through the supplied USB adapter into an iFI micro iDSD, outputting to an iFI iCAN headphone amp, and listening through some Audeze LCD2 cans.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I love it when the leap in quality is so great that I get that *dizzy, euphoric feeling* as I listen to familiar songs and marvel at what I've been missing prior to the upgrade.  
  
 I'm happy for you,
  





  
 Mike


----------



## zilch0md

tgx78 said:


> (snip)


 
  
 I've seen several photos of people using various props to support the USB Regen.  
  
 I was thinking of getting something like this:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/American-Educational-Stamped-Support-Length/dp/B00657VOJS
  




  
 But a wooden dowel, cut to the right length and affixed to the underside of the USB Regen with Blu-tack would be less obtrusive.
  
 Mike


----------



## semeniub

zilch0md said:


> I love it when the leap in quality is so great that I get that *dizzy, euphoric feeling* as I listen to familiar songs and marvel at what I've been missing prior to the upgrade.
> 
> I'm happy for you,
> 
> ...


 

 That's not what I said at all... I dizzied myself listening to and looking for the small differences, which were nice. Nobody mentioned changing the orbit of the planets here.
  
 Compared to the total cost of the USB input chain into my micro iDSD, the REGEN was a pleasant surprise.


----------



## zilch0md

semeniub said:


> That's not what I said at all... I dizzied myself listening to and looking for the small differences, which were nice. Nobody mentioned changing the orbit of the planets here.
> 
> Compared to the total cost of the USB input chain into my micro iDSD, the REGEN was a pleasant surprise.


 
  
 Oh, please forgive my misinterpretation - I was relating it to my experience with a recent upgrade - which didn't change the orbits of the planets either, but it did make me dizzy and euphoric.


----------



## semeniub

zilch0md said:


> Oh, please forgive my misinterpretation - I was relating it to my experience with a recent upgrade - which didn't change the orbits of the planets either, but it did make me dizzy and euphoric.


 

 Hmmmm, dizzy and euphoric... if we could only bottle and sell that...


----------



## zilch0md

semeniub said:


> Hmmmm, dizzy and euphoric... if we could only bottle and sell that...


 
  
 LOL
  
 The Metrum Acoustics USB 2 Module is sold in a box.


----------



## Frihed89

Can someone please gently and kindly explain to me how what looks like a USB output connects to a preamp with RCA inputs? An adapter?  The input plug also looks a little strange to my untrained eye.  (I use a conventional Wave length DAC that has USB from my MacBook Pro to the DAC and RCA outputs.  I also use Crimson IC cables which have a reputation for transparency).
  
 Thanks


----------



## Duke40

1) MacBook ... USB out  >>
 2) use your current USB cable  >>
 3) USB Regen >>
 4) USB A Male to B Male Adapter (included with Regen) to Wavelength DAC USB input >>
 5) WaveLength DAC .... RCA output >>
 6) From the DAC's   RCA outputs/cable (Crimson IC, so you have this already) >>
 7) Pre Amp
  
  
 Short answer :  Just plug the USB Regen between your USB cable and your Wavelength DAC.
  
 I have a MacBook and tested this configuration (though I have a different DAC).
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## Duke40

kritikal said:


> duke40 said:
> 
> 
> > Getting back on topic .... about the USB Regen ....
> ...


 

 Thanks for clearing that up .... I knew I was missing something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Grounds loops are awful ... I had one when I was more into HT ... funny enough finding out on how to get rid of it was spurned my interest into HT and back into HiFi, then HeadFi.      Maybe an Isolation Transformer, Tortech in OZ sell them. You could use it on your audio gear ... but these things are heavy ... kind of kills the portability of the iDSD ... so maybe put it on the fridge.   Maybe ask on StereoNet ... or ask Tortech (they are local manufacturers of electrical power supplies ... so they know the local OZ laws ... explain your issue ... trust what they say ... above what I suggest ... Disclaimer : This suggestion is just an idea to point you in the right direction ... my advice is not expert ... just trying to point you to someone who really knows what they are talking about


----------



## KritiKal

duke40 said:


> Thanks for clearing that up .... I knew I was missing something :wink_face:
> 
> Grounds loops are awful ... I had one when I was more into HT ... funny enough finding out on how to get rid of it was spurned my interest into HT and back into HiFi, then HeadFi.      Maybe an Isolation Transformer, Tortech in OZ sell them. You could use it on your audio gear ... but these things are heavy ... kind of kills the portability of the iDSD ... so maybe put it on the fridge.   Maybe ask on StereoNet ... or ask Tortech (they are local manufacturers of electrical power supplies ... so they know the local OZ laws ... explain your issue ... trust what they say ... above what I suggest ... Disclaimer : This suggestion is just an idea to point you in the right direction ... my advice is not expert ... just trying to point you to someone who really knows what they are talking about




Thanks for that.  I haven't had any time with the Regen since my last post, (I've had some mobile listening time which is now somewhat dissatisfying!) but when I do I'll see if I can isolate the issue. I'm 90% certain it's the fridge though. As you said, resolving the issue at the fridge will be the better option, as I listen at 3 different areas at home at the moment. I'll definitely be in contact with Tortech once I find out exactly what's going on (as I want to make sure there are no other sources for ground loops too). Greatly appreciated!


----------



## preproman




----------



## Hi Rez

Regen arrived this week.  The improvements weren't quite a subtle as I anticipated.  It really does seem to lower the noise floor and let more of the fine musical details through.  Voices are more natural.  A number of owners have mentioned more bass - I would say better fine bass detail making the bass seem more dynamic.  This is with an AQ Diamond USB and Ayre QB-9 DSD.
  
 Just for kicks tonight I tried it with my ODAC.  I find the ODAC sounds flat and don't think it is very involving musically.  With the Regen it wasn't bad, and really was pretty enjoyable.  With the Regen, Alison Krauss sounded a lot like Alison Krauss.  If someone was looking for a new dac and had a budget of $400 or more, I might have a hard time recommending they spend all of it on the DAC.  They might be better off with a Regen and a less expensive dac.  
  
 This is the best dollar wise purchase I've spent on audio.  Seriously.  
  
 Now, do I need to order a second Regen for my Solo -dB at work?  Guess I'll try this Regen with the Solo -dB tomorrow and decide.  Current delivery times just went to August.  Hmmm.


----------



## Music Path

I wonder how much it can make a diference. Isnt the usb noise reduction all about to get low latency audio? Which is the most detailed. The efects you guys are describing is similar i got, when altering the streaming of the usb signal. Ifi idsd micro users know what i m talking about. They say to use 
Safe usb streaming mode, especially for those who have problems with low latency signal. ( needs a lot of buffering and processing and breaks the audio signal sometimes). Could someone make some light on this topic. Thanks


----------



## Hi Rez

From the designer:  http://uptoneaudio.com/pages/j-swenson-tech-corner.
  
 John is also an active participant on CA - he's replied with a number of explanations there, however those will take some digging to ferret out.  He has the ability to explain complex concepts with unusual clarity.


----------



## KritiKal

music path said:


> I wonder how much it can make a diference. Isnt the usb noise reduction all about to get low latency audio? Which is the most detailed. The efects you guys are describing is similar i got, when altering the streaming of the usb signal. Ifi idsd micro users know what i m talking about. They say to use
> Safe usb streaming mode, especially for those who have problems with low latency signal. ( needs a lot of buffering and processing and breaks the audio signal sometimes). Could someone make some light on this topic. Thanks




I find the latency makes no difference to the audio quality. All it affects for me is the speed in which music starts, pauses, plays, etc... and can increase/decrease the occasional stuttering. But, it seems that you hear a lot of things where most people don't for some reason. Maybe you have amazing ears, or maybe you have an imaginative mind (I mean no offense, I am being sincere). One thing I know for certain though, if you can hear things like that, then you will notice a *MASSIVE* difference with the Regen!


----------



## zilch0md

hi rez said:


> From the designer:  http://uptoneaudio.com/pages/j-swenson-tech-corner.
> 
> John is also an active participant on CA - he's replied with a number of explanations there, however *those will take some digging to ferret out*.  He has the ability to explain complex concepts with unusual clarity.


 
  
 Here are some good links I've bookmarked - to John Swenson's more technical explanations (sorted chronologically) - for those who really want to understand how the USB Regen does what it does:
  
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/mac-mini-version-computer-audiophile-pocket-server-music-server-step-step-17666/index10.html#post370186
  
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index42.html#post428008
  
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index42.html#post428114
  
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index44.html#post428509
  
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index57.html#post435437
  
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index58.html#post435504
  
 Mike


----------



## zilch0md

And here are some great John Swenson articles from Michael Lavorgna's www.audiostream.com site (not specifically about the USB Regen, but worth reading):
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-1-what-digital
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-2-are-bits-just-bits
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-3-how-bit-perfect-software-can-affect-sound
  
 Mike


----------



## Chikolad

I acted on impulse and ordered the Regen (should be the mid August batch).
 I hope it will make a difference with my modest Schiit Modi!


----------



## Music Path

@zilch0md thanks for the links 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  


kritikal said:


> I find the latency makes no difference to the audio quality. All it affects for me is the speed in which music starts, pauses, plays, etc... and can increase/decrease the occasional stuttering. But, it seems that you hear a lot of things where most people don't for some reason. Maybe you have amazing ears, or maybe you have an imaginative mind (I mean no offense, I am being sincere). One thing I know for certain though, if you can hear things like that, then you will notice a *MASSIVE* difference with the Regen!


 
I think this sums up about my previous question:
*"My take is NOT that the latency itself is important, but that code that is low latency tends to have small tight loops, and THIS decreases the cache misses"*
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-3-how-bit-perfect-software-can-affect-sound
  
 I do notice improvements with low latency, but maybie i m confusing speed with quality. At begining didnt know what speed meant but now i may understood it.
 I hear more separation.
  
 Well i m 24 so i should hear well, and i try avoid to put music louder then 70db. About hearing diferences i must say i hear all the time i tweak the sound some way. And once i got wondered why certain key topics werent much discussed in forum...
  
 I hear when upsampling, downsampling, alter buffer size, usb streaming modes, polarity, digital filter modes, and of course when trying diferent hps, dacs, amps. 
  
 I do want hear how tubes sound, but i m skeptical about cables (except for balanced cables). You can get diferent little sound changes, when you can get them by how the sound gets processed down the line, and speed, for much less money.
  
 Here where the Regen is all about. How the sound goes, not where, and if possible reducing the path of the sound, it makes the whole diference. 
  
 Sometimes you hear not much change, but it doesnt sound right subconsciensly. Ifi audio published a study on how tubes afect people without noticing:
  
*"The Tube system improved the participants’emotional status (i. e. enjoyment of themusic) by a whopping 187% over the Solid‐State system.*
*The Tube system improved the participants’ mental status (i.e. less tense, more relaxed) by 102% over the Solid‐State system.*
*Strikingly, 30% of participants felt worse after listening to the Solid‐State system, yet not one felt worse after listening to the Tube system!"*
  
 http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/fact-tube-based-hifi-is-healthier-and-increases-enjoyment-of-music.327685/
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-itube/
 https://www.facebook.com/notes/ifi-audio/itube-tech-notes-part-1-the-magic-of-tubes/588114591224287
  
 At the end you want to clap your hands, shake head and feet to the music.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So i pay a lot of atention when trying audio stuff. Good audio is not just gold plated transmission devices+amps+dac+hps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I want to make sure i get the best out of it. 
  
 At end i will take the regen, seems have good value for good price, and transperancy explaining stuff.


----------



## crazychile

> Originally Posted by *hm22music* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> At end i will take the regen, seems have good value for good price, and transperancy explaining stuff.


 
  
 You might want to get one ordered soon. This is a product that I suspect will have a back order for quite a while.


----------



## Frihed89

duke40 said:


> 1) MacBook ... USB out  >>
> 2) use your current USB cable  >>
> 3) USB Regen >>
> 4) USB A Male to B Male Adapter (included with Regen) to Wavelength DAC USB input >>
> ...


 
 Many Thanks.


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, you guys sold me (I know you weren't trying to), ordered one, also in the mid August delivery group, curious what it does for my Geek Out Special Edition, or maybe the CEntrance M8, which gives me terrible problems connected to my PC (sounds like dirty scratchy vinyl record noise), but not connected to my iPad.


----------



## KritiKal

doctorjazz said:


> OK, you guys sold me (I know you weren't trying to), ordered one, also in the mid August delivery group, curious what it does for my Geek Out Special Edition, or maybe the CEntrance M8, which gives me terrible problems connected to my PC (sounds like dirty scratchy vinyl record noise), but not connected to my iPad.




Congrats! The more I listen, the more I notice how big of an improvement it is. It's especially noticeable when I don't use the Regen. It's actually quite hard for me to listen in a portable configuration now, it has a lot of synthetic sounding grain and grunge without the Regen, not to mention the soundstage, etc...!


----------



## Miracle1980

All these improvements that you are talking about are comparable to what? Is it like upgrading an usb cable or using a better dac or changing speakers cables?


----------



## KritiKal

miracle1980 said:


> All these improvements that you are talking about are comparable to what? Is it like upgrading an usb cable or using a better dac or changing speakers cables?




That's quite an ambiguous way to describe the improvement, especially considering not all upgrades of the same components are equal, but if anything, I'd put it halfway between a USB cable and a DAC/Amp upgrade in terms of noticeability/overall.
But, the effect on audio is very different and to get an improvement in these exact areas you would be spending many, many times more on a new DAC. Even then, it probably wouldn't clean the signal up as much compared to a cheaper DAC, and would certainly benefit from the Regen itself too.


----------



## Music Path

You guys should check the program_ *fidelizer*_, it improves the sound of source (windows) by a good margin. It will peer well with regen i think. Hope somebody tests it.


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> Well, my desktop PC (which was really built for gaming, but I've since tweaked it for better audio performance) doesn't really stack up against my laptop. First time I've used my laptop for audio was last night with the Regen, and it sounds decent! With that in mind, the Regen makes a more noticeable improvement with my desktop PC than it does with my laptop. Using both with the Regen, the laptop is still better, but that's to be expected. However, it does make my PC above bareable, where I could hardly listen to it before.
> 
> I think it's time for me to buy/build an audio PC. Having said that, I don't know which components would be best in an audiophile computer. *So can anyone recommend a good audiophile computer, preferably a laptop? *I'd be looking to spend *about $1000 *(aud) *max of* *$1500*.
> 
> ...


 
 I think it will be of your interest.


----------



## KritiKal

music path said:


> I think it will be of your interest.




I do use fidelizer (free version), have for a while. It helps a bit, but there are certain things that any manner of OS optimization won't help, such as signal noise from fans and large current draw from beefy processers. The gains from Fidelizer are still achievable with a better sounding computer.


----------



## jcwc

kritikal said:


> I find the latency makes no difference to the audio quality. All it affects for me is the speed in which music starts, pauses, plays, etc... and can increase/decrease the occasional stuttering. But, it seems that you hear a lot of things where most people don't for some reason. Maybe you have amazing ears, or maybe you have an imaginative mind (I mean no offense, I am being sincere). One thing I know for certain though, if you can hear things like that, then you will notice a *MASSIVE* difference with the Regen!


 
  
 I'm also one of those persons who hear a difference when adjusting the latency settings. Changing from "Safe" to "Minimum" latency resulted in differences that were audible.


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> I do use fidelizer (free version), have for a while. It helps a bit, but there are certain things that any manner of OS optimization won't help, such as signal noise from fans and large current draw from beefy processers. The gains from Fidelizer are still achievable with a better sounding computer.




Supposly the regen should remove that extra sound from the cps, fans etc...i think
Using ssd it will make a diference too, which is quiter than normal discs.
Fans, well they are noisy but you need them.


----------



## KritiKal

music path said:


> Supposly the regen should remove that extra sound from the cps, fans etc...i think
> Using ssd it will make a diference too, which is quiter than normal discs.
> Fans, well they are noisy but you need them.




It removes some of it, but not all of it. Computers, cables and DACs all still make a difference with the Regen. It is possible to go completely fanless with a PC. In fact, it's possible to go completely solid state.


----------



## elviscaprice

How does a solid state drive make a difference other than the operating system?  If just transferring data to memory then streaming that audio, it shouldn't be that big of a deal what kind of a drive you use hooked up by SATA to your mother board.  Agree that as much interference that can be reduced before the Regen will make a difference.  But the Regen will really be efficient and noticeable, used with a noisy source as opposed to a cleaner one.


----------



## Music Path

elviscaprice said:


> How does a solid state drive make a difference other than the operating system?  If just transferring data to memory then streaming that audio, it shouldn't be that big of a deal what kind of a drive you use hooked up by SATA to your mother board.  Agree that as much interference that can be reduced before the Regen will make a difference.  But the Regen will really be efficient and noticeable, used with a noisy source as opposed to a cleaner one.




Ssd can be to 10x faster with the data transfer, reducing latency, increasing performance needed for good audio processing and it's a lot quiter.
Indirectly it will help.


----------



## ccklone

Hey Now,
  
 I just bought a used Amber Regen and it arrived today. Whoo-hoo! Just like the previous listening impressions, this thing is going nowhere. It sounds so much more natural, music springs forth from a black background, everything seems clearer and more detailed. There is an ease to the music, it just simply flows. (Even the wifey noticed on Santana's Supernatural, which she is very familiar with!!!!)
  
 I have 4 USB DACs to try it out on. It is going to take a while, I just can't seem to turn it off right now 8^). I have a new one due in July. I can't wait. 

*This is the single best piece of audio gear I have purchased for computer audio.* I am currently using a 5K iMac > JRMC > Regen > Meier Daccord > ALO Amphora HPA/Pre > DIY TPA3110 amp > Design Acoustic PS10A in a near field environment. I'll try some headphones later.
  
 --
 Finest kind,
 Chris


----------



## Superdad

ccklone said:


> Hey Now,
> 
> I just bought a used Amber Regen and it arrived today. Whoo-hoo! Just like the previous listening impressions, this thing is going nowhere. It sounds so much more natural, music springs forth from a black background, everything seems clearer and more detailed. There is an ease to the music, it just simply flows. (Even the wifey noticed on Santana's Supernatural, which she is very familiar with!!!!)
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Chris:
  
 Glad you are enjoying the REGEN so much!  You got one second hand?  After shipping over 500 of them, yours is the first I have heard of someone parting with one for someone else to use.  But like 95%+ of REGEN buyers, you clearly are digging what it does.
  
 Let me know if you have any questions, and feel free to check out or join in on any of the REGEN threads over at ComputerAudiophile.com where I hang out.
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/uptone-audio-regen-listening-impressions-24078/index26.html#post439944
  
 Thanks and regards,
  
 Alex C.
 UpTone Audio LLC


----------



## jazzfan

Based on all the accolades, I couldn't resist. Placed my order for one unit today. Looking forward to taking it for a spin.


----------



## ccklone

superdad said:


> Hi Chris:
> 
> Glad you are enjoying the REGEN so much!  You got one second hand?  After shipping over 500 of them, yours is the first I have heard of someone parting with one for someone else to use.  But like 95%+ of REGEN buyers, you clearly are digging what it does.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey Now Alex,
  
 I have been enthusiastically following the CA threads for quite a while now. I have already ordered a Regen from UpTone Audio, number 1408. I will have 2 to play with shortly. Should I use them in tandem or set up 2 systems and enjoy? decisions, decisions . . . . . . I truly am enjoying the Regen. I have used it with a couple of DACs now, my Meier Daccord and iFi DSD Nano. Next up my Audio-gd REF5 and Meridian Explorer (I'll have to figure out a way to use a hard connector for the Explorer). 
  
 Yeah, I was following the CA threads on user impressions and someone was not able to get the results that he had read about. I then was checking into Audio Circle and found that person's Regen for sale. So I snagged it. Looking forward to my second one 8^).
  
 --
 Finest kind,
 Chris


----------



## KritiKal

Putting the Regen to good use!


----------



## zilch0md

kritikal said:


> Putting the Regen to good use!




To charge your Samsung?


----------



## KritiKal

zilch0md said:


> To charge your Samsung?




Lol, yeah. Battery was going flat after a listening session, so I hooked it up with what I had handy.


----------



## mscott58

kritikal said:


> Lol, yeah. Battery was going flat after a listening session, so I hooked it up with what I had handy.




Does it help the battery sound better?


----------



## zilch0md

kritikal said:


> Lol, yeah. Battery was going flat after a listening session, so I hooked it up with what I had handy.




Why not?


----------



## KritiKal

mscott58 said:


> Does it help the battery sound better?




No, but my screen seems to be wider and has greater clarity.


----------



## doctorjazz

I've never been able to get the otg/line out to work from my htc M8 (and I got it thinking it somehow was more music oriented). Likely go Samsung next upgrade.


----------



## KritiKal

doctorjazz said:


> I've never been able to get the otg/line out to work from my htc M8 (and I got it thinking it somehow was more music oriented). Likely go Samsung next upgrade.




Do you mean using the phone's (Android OS) USB audio driver to play all audio from the phone? I can't do that with my phone (S4 (Lollipop)), it's apparently possible with the s5 though using Lollipop but funnily enough not with the s6 even with it using Lollipop!
It's amusing you say that, I was looking at the m9 for my next phone purchase (apparently it's possible). 

-The S6 doesn't take SD cards but does have a bottom USB 2.0 port and also no USB native audio. The same is true for the 
-The S5 does take SD cards, but has a bottom USB 3.0 port (can't use a recently purchased cable) and does support USB native audio (I beleieve it is all also true for the Note 4)
-The Sony Xperia phones support SD cards, has a side USB 2.0 port (not suitable for most USB cables ergonomically) and supports USB audio, even before Lollipop.
-The m9 supports SD cards, has a bottom USB 2.0 port and also supports USB native audio (from what I've read)

So, the m9 ticks all boxes for me! Plus, it has a bunch of other features that might be worthwhile with headphone use.

It's funny though, Android have added this function to its OS now, but for some reason, most manufacturers have it disabled. You can enable it in the settings again, but it doesn't always work. It may work for your m8, but didn't for my S4.

If it doesn't, it might be worth sticking with HTC and going up a model.


----------



## doctorjazz

Mabye M9 is the way to go my next purchase, M8 won't do it (believe it is upgraded to Lolipop, but I have tried a number of times, can't get it to work).


----------



## KritiKal

doctorjazz said:


> Mabye M9 is the way to go my next purchase, M8 won't do it (believe it is upgraded to Lolipop, but I have tried a number of times, can't get it to work).




Yeah, I'd consider the Sony route if I hadn't recently spent $300 on a USB cable and an SD Card. But the m9 seems to be the better way to go anyway.


----------



## zilch0md

135 USB Regens are shipping out this week.
  
 Update:  100 shipped this week, according to a later post made by Superdad.  See the post by elviscaprice, below...
  
 Joy!
  





  
 Mike


----------



## crazychile

zilch0md said:


> 135 USB Regens are shipping out this week.
> 
> Joy!
> 
> ...


 

 My order is within the first 135, but just over the first 100 cited for next week. So potentially up to a 3 week wait from now before it shows up at my door. (Assuming 5 days shipping)


----------



## elviscaprice

crazychile said:


> My order is within the first 135, but just over the first 100 cited for next week. So potentially up to a 3 week wait from now before it shows up at my door. (Assuming 5 days shipping)


 
 The first 100 this week, the next 35 beginning of next week.  As quoted by Alex.

 "Guess I should have posted here as well. Heading to the post office now with 100 REGENs; another 35 at the beginning of the week and then more each of the following two weeks. By middle of August the entire 500+ order backlog will be cleared and we will have crossed the 1,000 REGENs shipped mark! Glad you all are enjoying them. Thanks ever so much.
 Can't wait to be able to reveal the details about the 1A power device which is going to turn a lot of heads (the prototype already has 217 parts on the board!).

 Best,
 --Alex C."
  
 "


----------



## crazychile

elviscaprice said:


> crazychile said:
> 
> 
> > My order is within the first 135, but just over the first 100 cited for next week. So potentially up to a 3 week wait from now before it shows up at my door. (Assuming 5 days shipping)
> ...


 

 Ah, I misread. So probably more like 1.5 weeks before I get mine.


----------



## preproman

elviscaprice said:


> The first 100 this week, the next 35 beginning of next week.  As quoted by Alex.
> 
> "Guess I should have posted here as well. Heading to the post office now with 100 REGENs; another 35 at the beginning of the week and then more each of the following two weeks. By middle of August the entire 500+ order backlog will be cleared and we will have crossed the 1,000 REGENs shipped mark! Glad you all are enjoying them. Thanks ever so much.
> Can't wait to be able to reveal the details about the 1A power device which is going to turn a lot of heads (the prototype already has 217 parts on the board!).
> ...


 

 Will we get an email with a tracking number to alert us that it's on the way?


----------



## zilch0md

preproman said:


> Will we get an email with a tracking number to alert us that it's on the way?


 
  
 Yes, Alex says an email is sent out with a tracking number on the afternoon of the day it ships.


----------



## zilch0md

It's way past time for bed, but here are my first impressions of the USB Regen (with a Supra USB cable - as recommended by John Swenson):
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/uptone-audio-regen-listening-impressions-24078/index35.html#post444567
  
 Joy!
  
 Mike


----------



## Duke40

preproman said:


> elviscaprice said:
> 
> 
> > The first 100 this week, the next 35 beginning of next week.  As quoted by Alex.
> ...


 

 Yes ... Alex Crespi from UpTone Audio sent me a tracking number for both Regens.
  
 I am very curious about his comment of "the 1A power device which is going to turn a lot of heads (the prototype already has 217 parts on the board!)."
 He continues to tease us with breadcrumbs of information about this 1A power device ... which can not yet be named.
 I, for one, am very interested, as the USB Regen performs above & beyond my expectations ... creating a very strong interest in what these guys do in the future ... UpTone Audio is certainly a company to watch.


----------



## Duke40

kritikal said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Mabye M9 is the way to go my next purchase, M8 won't do it (believe it is upgraded to Lolipop, but I have tried a number of times, can't get it to work).
> ...


 

 Which brand & type of SD card ?
  
 If I remember correctly, you had an original green Regen like me (hope I got that right) ... has your amber upgrade board for the Regen arrived ?
  
 *** Side note to minimise any confusion to other readers of this thread ... the first 100 early adopters had "Green" Regen in April 2015 (???) ... the Regen was further tweaked to have an "Amber" LED with further significant improvements by adding several capacitors and such (roughly said to be about 40% better).     The early adopters were well taken care of .... very generously in fact ... with a fair & just deal  (to the consumer) by UpTone Audio ... who charged a very small amount for us early adopters to get the "latest & greatest" and we still got to keep the original "Green" Regen to do with what we want.    Short answer .... we were very fairly treated ... outstanding in fact ... by UpTone Audio.    Oh,  all the Regens shipping have been amber for a very long time now,  it was just us rabid early adopters who got the version with the green LED.    
 Really short answer ... don't worry, if you are buying or have already bought a Regen, it is the amber version. ***


----------



## Duke40

zilch0md said:


> It's way past time for bed, but here are my first impressions of the USB Regen (with a Supra USB cable - as recommended by John Swenson):
> 
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/uptone-audio-regen-listening-impressions-24078/index35.html#post444567
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Mike ... I am very interested in your feedback as I know from your posts that you have an above average ability to discern any changes, and even more than that, 
 you have an ability to write in an exceptionally articulate & coherent manner (at least compared to this Ozzie).    So, I look forward to your thoughts.
  
 By the way, could you post your thoughts here in this thread as well as CA?  That would be great.
  
 John


----------



## doctorjazz

Went to your CA part, liking forward to getting my unit. Have to say, didn't know what most of the stuff you have in the set up IS...just recently learned about LPS from feeling with the Geek Out 1k (have the Special Edition). I think the voltage is the correct one for the GO...is there a benefit to using this along with our instead of a Vaunix Lab Brick powered hub, which I use now? Thanks.


----------



## zilch0md

duke40 said:


> (snip)
> 
> By the way, could you post your thoughts here in this thread as well as CA?  That would be great.
> 
> John


 
  
 Thanks for those kind words, John - I hope I can continue to live up to them.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


doctorjazz said:


> Went to your CA part, liking forward to getting my unit. Have to say, didn't know what most of the stuff you have in the set up IS...just recently learned about LPS from feeling with the Geek Out 1k (have the Special Edition). I think the voltage is the correct one for the GO...is there a benefit to using this along with our instead of a Vaunix Lab Brick powered hub, which I use now? Thanks.


 
  
 Hi doctorjazz,
  
 The USB Regen will only pull* data* from your Mac or PC's USB port - or from an Apple device that has a CCK (camera connection kit).  
  
 The USB Regen will* ignore* any power that arrives at its input via the USB cable from your source. 
  
 It gets its power not from its USB input, but rather from a separate, 2.5mm coaxial barrel connector, requiring a _*minimum supply voltage of 6V*_, up to a maximum of 9V (if your DAC pulls 5VDC power from your laptop or PC), or a maximum of 12V (if your DAC is internally powered and thus pulls no power from your laptop or PC.)  
  
 But again, the minimum is 6VDC (with a continuous current rating of at least 1 Amp) and your Vaunix hub, though wonderfully regulated, only supplies 5VDC.
  
_So, where do you get 6V to 9V power (for a USB-powered DAC/amp like your GO 1000?  _
  
 The USB Regen comes with a 7.5V SMPS (switch-mode power supply) that you can use to power the USB Regen (and your GO 1000 that's plugged into the USB Regen).
  
 Early adopters have found, however, that the better your downstream gear, the more attention you'll want to pay to providing the USB Regen with really noise-free power.
  
 Many people will no doubt be completely happy with the included 7.5V SMPS, but others have found that, for their ears and gear, the benefits of the USB Regen can be taken further still by improving the power supply to the Regen.  
  
 There are people out there using the $925 UpTone Audio JS-2 power supply and testifying that their $175 USB Regens can appreciate the difference.
  
 I'm currently experimenting with much less expensive power options for the USB Regen - the $45 TeraDak U9VA 9V (adjustable) linear power supply and an Anker Astro 3 LiPo battery pack operated in 9V mode (now rebranded, as seen here). 
  
 Alex Crespi (Superdad) has already announced a new UpTone Audio product that's still in the design phase, which can optionally be inserted between their standard 7.5V SMPS and the USB Regen, to vastly improve the power quality coming into the USB Regen - so stay tuned for more information about that critter.  Pricing and a release date are not yet available. It doesn't even have a name yet, but lots of people already want it - such is their confidence in UpTone's John Swenson - to hit another one out of the park.
  
 Meanwhile, there's plenty of audible improvements to be enjoyed  just using the USB Regen with the included SMPS.  They spent a lot of time testing off-the-shelf SMPS units before selecting the one they are shipping with the USB Regen.
  
 Everything that can be tweaked will be tweaked, so it's no surprise some people are spending a lot of money to improve the power supplies used to drive the USB Regen, but you really don't need anything other than what comes with the USB Regen to enjoy what a lot of people are calling perhaps the best bang-for-the-buck they've ever had with an audio purchase.
  
 Mike


----------



## mscott58

I wonder if you could use one of the power output taps from the Geek LPS4? It's 12V and has taps that are either 0.5A or 1.2A max. 
  
 Sorry if this has already been discussed in this thread.


----------



## doctorjazz

Thanks so much Mike for that detailed reply, New to this computer audio stuff (just finished playing LPs). The $925 per supply is getting a bit steep (already considering a similar power supply upgrade for my MicroZOTL amp). Sounds like the best option is to wait for UpTone's solution.


----------



## KritiKal

duke40 said:


> Which brand & type of SD card ?
> 
> If I remember correctly, you had an original green Regen like me (hope I got that right) ... has your amber upgrade board for the Regen arrived ?
> 
> ...




Not sure why I made comment to an SD card regarding a Sony phone as they can obviously take them.
Anyway, I bought a Sandisk 64GB Micro SDXC Extreme card 60MB/s. Handy to have the extra speed as I'm always writing to it and copying from it, not just reading from it.

My Regen is an Amber, although I have been in this thread since the near start, so that may be reason for confusion.  I was in the first Amber batch.


----------



## zilch0md

mscott58 said:


> I wonder if you could use one of the power output taps from the Geek LPS4? It's 12V and has taps that are either 0.5A or 1.2A max.
> 
> Sorry if this has already been discussed in this thread.




1.2A at 12V would be OK only if the Regen is being used with a DAC that does not pull power from the Regen. 

If you have a USB-powered DAC or DAC/amp, the Regen must be supplied with no more than 9V (to prevent it from overheating).

Mike


----------



## leeperry

So it's a twice pricier Schiit Wyrd with a SMPS, what's the point?


----------



## KritiKal

leeperry said:


> So it's a twice pricier Schiit Wyrd with a SMPS, what's the point?




They're really quite different products. The Wyrd's primary (perhaps entire - not certain) focus is clean USB power. The Regen's is clean USB power and signal integrity. Both attempt to achieve the same thing (a better USB audio output) but one does it far better than the other. Close to double the price, but anyone having tried both will tell you that the factor of improvement between the two is greater than the factor of price difference.

All in all, the point is an improved listening experience and good value for money at the same time.


----------



## leeperry

Oh, some ppl have compared them in this thread? Wyrd injects a linear PSU using an excellent VR and reclocks the USB signal using a USB repeating chip, exactly like Regen as far as I can see on its PCB.


----------



## KritiKal

leeperry said:


> Oh, some ppl have compared them in this thread? Wyrd injects a linear PSU using an excellent VR and reclocks the USB signal using a USB repeating chip, exactly like Regen as far as I can see on its PCB.




I know that jexby has both and made some comparisons over at CA, not sure if he did it here too. Hopefully he can chime in though if he hasn't and give a good run down. I've seen some other comparisons around so if I can recall/stumble upon them, I'll post them up. 

I don't have both on hand, but a friend of mine has the Wyrd. I tried it a few months back and it was good, but I prefer the Regen. Having said that, it's really not much to go by as the time between trying both was over a month apart. I'll have to invite him around for a few beers and put them head to head.


----------



## doctorjazz

Nothing like a few beers to get a good, detailed evaluation!!


----------



## hifimiami

Hi, any feedback or impressions upgrading factory powercable with aftermarket upgraded power cable?


----------



## tgx78

I tried with few different ones (signalcable, pangea, nordost) but differences were very minimal. Now when I hooked up this SMPS from the wall receptacle (JPS labs) To the PLC Thingee power conditioner, sound improved noticeably cleaner with better definitions. I also tried to power ReGen with li-po Battery, but found it looses dynamic and details. 

I heard some ebay chinese LPS made good improvements so I may try that route next.


----------



## mscott58

zilch0md said:


> 1.2A at 12V would be OK only if the Regen is being used with a DAC that does not pull power from the Regen.
> 
> If you have a USB-powered DAC or DAC/amp, the Regen must be supplied with no more than 9V (to prevent it from overheating).
> 
> Mike


 
 For anyone who has tried the LPS as a power source for the Regen, where did you get the appropriate power cable? The LPS connector is a bit unique. Thanks!


----------



## zilch0md

mscott58 said:


> For anyone who has tried the LPS as a power source for the Regen, where did you get the appropriate power cable? The LPS connector is a bit unique. Thanks!




The TeraDak X1/X2 LPS includes a power cable that works perfectly with the Regen - no mods required.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-TeraLink-X1-X2-DC8-5V-1A-USB-DC5V-port-external-Linear-Power-Supply-/301656560256

But you might want to just use the Regen's SMPS while you wait for UpTone's mystery device....



Mike


----------



## mscott58

zilch0md said:


> The TeraDak X1/X2 LPS includes a power cable that works perfectly with the Regen - no mods required.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks Mike, but was wondering about the Geek LPS. Cheers

...and in doing more research the cables for the Geek LPS end in a standard 2.1 mm/5.5mm round plug, so hopefully that will work on the Regen!


----------



## zilch0md

mscott58 said:


> Thanks Mike, but was wondering about the Geek LPS. Cheers
> 
> ...and in doing more research the cables for the Geek LPS end in a standard 2.1 mm/5.5mm round plug, so hopefully that will work on the Regen!


 
  
 Cables aside, there could be a problem with using the Geek LPS: _ The Geek LPS output choices are *5V *(which isn't enough volts to satisfy the USB Regen) and *12V *(which might be too high a voltage).  _
  
 The USB Regen needs...
  
 .... a minimum of *6V* to a maximum of 9V (for DACs or DAC/amps that will pull power from the Regen's USB output).  So:  Do not use the Geek LPS 12V output if the DAC or DAC/amp pulls power from the Regen.
  
  
 -OR-  
  
 ... a minimum of *6V* to a maximum of 12V (for DACs or DAC/amps that will _NOT_ pull power from the Regen's output.) * *So: The Geek LPS 12V output would be OK, as long as no power is pulled from the Regen.    
  
 The lower the voltage the better (down to a minimum of *6V*)  in terms of reducing heat generated inside the USB Regen (and less heat equates to longer life.)


----------



## mscott58

zilch0md said:


> Cables aside, there could be a problem with using the Geek LPS: _ The Geek LPS output choices are *5V *(which isn't enough volts to satisfy the USB Regen) and *12V *(which might be too high a voltage).  _
> 
> The USB Regen needs...
> 
> ...


 
 Agree, but the good thing is that the Pulse doesn't pull power from the USB. In fact if you have a split USB cable you can unplug the power leg of the cable after the handshake and not have any power coming to the Pulse. 

 Will give it a shot and see what happens. 
  
 I also have an old linear power supply I upgraded for use with my old Squeezebox Touch, but darn it if it's 5V! One is too high, one is too low - I might need one that is just right. Doh. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## mtruong34

Regen works great with the Geek Out!


----------



## zilch0md

mscott58 said:


> Agree, but the good thing is that the Pulse doesn't pull power from the USB. In fact if you have a split USB cable you can unplug the power leg of the cable after the handshake and not have any power coming to the Pulse.
> 
> Will give it a shot and see what happens.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh, if the Geek Pulse doesn't pull power from its USB input, the 12V output of your Geek LPS should work fine with the Regen - without overheating it.


----------



## zilch0md

mtruong34 said:


> Regen works great with the Geek Out!


 
  
 That's good news.  Are you using the switch-mode power supply that is included with the USB Regen?   (It delivers only 7.5V, which is between the 6V and 9V range required when the Regen will be powering a DAC or DAC/amp like your Geek Out.)
  
 Tell us about the improvements in sound quality you hear (if any).


----------



## KritiKal

zilch0md said:


> ...Tell us about the improvements in sound quality you hear (if any).




+1!


----------



## crazychile

After almost 2 months of waiting. mine has finally been shipped.  I've been wanting to try this out soooo bad. If it's half as good as some make it out to be, it will be a bargain.


----------



## crazychile

I received my Regen on Saturday and have only had about 3 hours to listen so far. I don’t want to rehash what’s already been said about it, but this is what came to mind as I listened to my system after installing the Regen…
  
 Any of you that have ever owned tube gear for an extended period of time, you know how a component starts to sound when your tubes need to be replaced, but haven’t actually failed to the point of being dead, or noisy? Sort of muddy and non-distinct.  Stuff sort of blends together to give a blah presentation.  It isn’t horrible, but you just lose interest in the music rather quickly before finding something else to do.
  
 By comparison, that’s the “before” Regen.
  
 The “after” Regen is like you replaced all your tubes with new ones with the same type and brand that are properly matched.  Nothing esoteric or coveted NOS, just new ones where the sound is restored to imaging normally, and the instrument separation and bass control comes back.
  
 It’s sort of like that.
  
 So yeah, I'm pretty happy with the results.


----------



## mscott58

crazychile said:


> I received my Regen on Saturday and have only had about 3 hours to listen so far. I don’t want to rehash what’s already been said about it, but this is what came to mind as I listened to my system after installing the Regen…
> 
> Any of you that have ever owned tube gear for an extended period of time, you know how a component starts to sound when your tubes need to be replaced, but haven’t actually failed to the point of being dead, or noisy? Sort of muddy and non-distinct.  Stuff sort of blends together to give a blah presentation.  It isn’t horrible, but you just lose interest in the music rather quickly before finding something else to do.
> 
> ...


 
 Sweet! Thanks for sharing. 

 Although this only makes the wait that much more agonizing...


----------



## 514077

crazychile said:


> I received my Regen on Saturday and have only had about 3 hours to listen so far. I don’t want to rehash what’s already been said about it, but this is what came to mind as I listened to my system after installing the Regen…
> 
> Any of you that have ever owned tube gear for an extended period of time, you know how a component starts to sound when your tubes need to be replaced, but haven’t actually failed to the point of being dead, or noisy? Sort of muddy and non-distinct.  Stuff sort of blends together to give a blah presentation.  It isn’t horrible, but you just lose interest in the music rather quickly before finding something else to do.
> 
> ...


 

 That's it!  I've got to get some adaptors for micro USB.  It's been sitting here for 2 to 3 weeks and can't get out to look for parts.


----------



## 514077

OK!  I'm sick-up and fed with amazon.  I've been trying to ask for the right adapters in words even amazon can understand.
 All I get is s**t.  I have a perfectly good silverdragon to input to the regen. Is there an exact name for such an adapter?
 Please, I'm patheticly begging for enlightenment.


----------



## seeteeyou

This one?
  
 http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-USB-Micro-Cable-Adapter/dp/B001K9BEJ6


----------



## elviscaprice

Here's the two micro adaptors I bought to try on the Regen/Hugo.  The Regen arrives any day now.
  
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TAM0MZW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00
  
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001K9BEJ6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00


----------



## 514077

elviscaprice said:


> Here's the two micro adaptors I bought to try on the Regen/Hugo.  The Regen arrives any day now.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TAM0MZW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001K9BEJ6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00


 

 Thanks guys.  I'll check out the links and see if A.ca has the equivilant parts.


----------



## KritiKal

My current setup with the Regen. Better than my PC for home and portable enough to take to the Uni library! Thought there was no point buying a brand new Surface Pro 3 when the Pro 4 should only be a couple of months away, so I bought a Pro 2 second hand while I wait.


----------



## Franatic

My set up has a pretty good usb transport to my ifi micro idsd (love the idsd). I am outputting from a PPA V4 usb card with a battery PSU on its output.
  
 My transport looks like this(before regen):
 PPA V4 usb card > PPA red usb cable > ifi iusb power > gemini cable > Forza B to A usb adapter > micro idsd
  
 After regen:
 PPA V4 usb card > PPA red usb cable > Regen > Forza B to A usb adapter > micro idsd
  
 I have eliminated the iusb power and the gemini cable. This setup gives me a significant SQ increase over the iusb power and gemini cable. It seems to add more texture and improves imaging with a blacker background.
  
 The Regen and the micro idsd pairing very well here. Great product Uptone!


----------



## Duke40

kritikal said:


> My current setup with the Regen. Better than my PC for home and portable enough to take to the Uni library! Thought there was no point buying a brand new Surface Pro 3 when the Pro 4 should only be a couple of months away, so I bought a Pro 2 second hand while I wait.


 

 That echoes my experience ... a tablet sounds better than a home computer.  I think tablets are extremely undervalued as a source.
  
 Recently got an Auralic Aries, and it is a nice upgrade over my iPad ... I love it ... but to put things in perspective I was actually had more of a "wow" experience by placing a Regen into my headphone rig.
 I have an extra Regen PCB board, so testing a Regen in front of another Regen ... I found another level of improvement ... but to keep to reality, it was just a minor improvement over using a single Regen.
 Still, I like it, so will keep that configuration.


----------



## Duke40

franatic said:


> My set up has a pretty good usb transport to my ifi micro idsd (love the idsd). I am outputting from a PPA V4 usb card with a battery PSU on its output.
> 
> My transport looks like this(before regen):
> PPA V4 usb card > PPA red usb cable > ifi iusb power > gemini cable > Forza B to A usb adapter > micro idsd
> ...


 

 That echoes my experience of removing the iFi gemini and mercury cables (and then a usb hub),  when I installed the Regen.
  
 Sometimes less is more ... sometimes not.   Sometimes it is just a "synergy" thing.
  
 *** Oh, and I think very highly of iFi products, I was very impressed especially with both the sound & build quality of the gemini and mercury cables, in fact if I actually need a USB cable, I would just get one from iFi.


----------



## KritiKal

franatic said:


> My set up has a pretty good usb transport to my ifi micro idsd (love the idsd). I am outputting from a PPA V4 usb card with a battery PSU on its output.
> 
> My transport looks like this(before regen):
> PPA V4 usb card > PPA red usb cable > ifi iusb power > gemini cable > Forza B to A usb adapter > micro idsd
> ...


 
  
 Franatic, can you please compare the Forza adapter VS. a generic one in your current Micro setup for me? I'm thinking of buying one if there's a relatively decent improvement.


duke40 said:


> That echoes my experience of removing the iFi gemini and mercury cables (and then a usb hub),  when I installed the Regen.
> 
> Sometimes less is more ... sometimes not.   Sometimes it is just a "synergy" thing.
> 
> *** Oh, and I think very highly of iFi products, I was very impressed especially with both the sound & build quality of the gemini and mercury cables, in fact if I actually need a USB cable, I would just get one from iFi.


 
  
 Although it would mean using a cable between the Regen and your DAC, did you try using the Gemini cable to your DAC with the data going through the Regen and the power coming from the iUSB Power? Just curious to see which one is better from a power alone standpoint.


----------



## Duke40

kritikal said:


> franatic said:
> 
> 
> > My set up has a pretty good usb transport to my ifi micro idsd (love the idsd). I am outputting from a PPA V4 usb card with a battery PSU on its output.
> ...


 

 I did try briefly both the iFi Gemini between Regen and DAC (with the power side of the Gemini being powered by an XPAL XP18000 LiPo battery).
 I preferred the sound of the free USB A Male to B Male adapter between Regen and DAC.
  
 Repeated the experiment ... I did not have the iUSB power had the Vaunix USB Hub instead so tried using the Vaunix for the power side of the Gemini ... still preferred the USB adapter.
  
 *** Disclaimer ... these test were done about 3 months ago & I did a lot of testing of various configurations.  I do remember one of the configurations I tried had a lot of trouble handshaking for USB, but not sure if it was one of the 2 configurations mentioned above.   What I am completely certain about is that I preferred the included USB Adapter in every test. ***
  
 Also tried the iFi Mercury between Regen and DAC ... still preferred the included free USB Adapter.
  
*This completely goes against my previous experience that the included cables when you buy a piece of audio gear are useless and that you need to spend a little, but not a lot on cabling *(that is I often find a noticeable subtle improvement when I go up to $100 on cabling something, then diminishing returns seriously hits in, and usually completely dissapears by the $200 mark.  I typically find this on USB, HDMI, anlaogue interconnects, speaker cabling, digital coax or toslink cables, power cables.   In fact my most expensive cable is actually my Steve Eddy "Q Audio" cable for Audeze, I think I paid about $240 as I needed a long HP cable ... I love it as there is no microphony like other HP cables. No regrets on that purchase.)
  
 IMO experience, I must say that the included 6 inch USB cable with the USB Regen does sound nasty, quite harsh ... though I understand why it was included, it is just an "el cheapo" to keep the price down of the USB Regen and get you going .... and most people have an aftermarket USB cable anyway.    
  
 Still, I find the USB A Male to B Male adapter that is included with the USB Regen a wonderful included accessory ... and was surprised that it beat the iFi Audio cables between REGEN and DAC   (as mentioned previously, quite a few times, I have a lot of respect for iFi Audio gear ... and it I actually did need a USB cable for a setup, they would be the very first place I looked to get a USB cable.  I do have a lot of respect for iFi, afterall they were the winners of my USB cable shootout).
  
 I was so impressed with the USB adapter *after the Regen* ... that I also got more of the USB adapters  (they cost about $1 each on eBay) ... to place *before the Regen* ... which eliminated any requirement for USB cables at all. 
  
 John


----------



## Franatic

I received my Regen a few weeks ago and tried every combination possible with the gemini cable and the iusb power. Eventually I found that the best combination to be with the PPA usb cable directly to the Regen, eliminating the iusb power and gemini cable. The PPA usb cable is very good quality. How much better this setup is depends on what you power the Regen with. I tried the ipower first http://www.musicdirect.com/p-322395-ifi-ipower-outboard-supply.aspx
 It was a step up from the Regen's supplied one.
  
 I currently have a Teradak U9 linear(adjusted to 7.2 volts) on the Regen and it is a substantial upgrade. I ordered an hd plex supply:
  http://www.hd-plex.com/HDPLEX-Fanless-Linear-Power-Supply-for-PC-Audio-and-CE-device.html
 I am afraid the U9 is at it's current limit so I will replace it when the HD Plex arrives.......and I have uses for the HD Plex's other outputs. 
  
 I love the Forza adapter that I had made. Matthew has made a few of these so email him for a quote......definitely worth it.
matthew@forzaaudioworks.com
  
This Regen and micro idsd combo is awesome. It will allow me to be patient as ifi continues to try to develop the idsd pro.


----------



## Duke40

franatic said:


> I received my Regen a few weeks ago and tried every combination possible with the gemini cable and the iusb power. Eventually I found that the best combination to be with the PPA usb cable directly to the Regen, eliminating the iusb power and gemini cable. The PPA usb cable is very good quality. How much better this setup is depends on what you power the Regen with. I tried the ipower first http://www.musicdirect.com/p-322395-ifi-ipower-outboard-supply.aspx
> It was a step up from the Regen's supplied one.
> 
> I currently have a Teradak U9 linear(adjusted to 7.2 volts) on the Regen and it is a substantial upgrade. I ordered an hd plex supply:
> ...


 

 @ Franatic ... I will be interested in your thoughts between using the Teradak U9   VS   HD-Plex Linear PSU ...  to power the USB Regen.
  
 Just trying to get a handle on the magnitude (if any) between these 2 different power supplies.
  
 Currently, I use the 9V from my HD-Plex Linear PSU to power the USB Regen ... though have been curious about the Teradak U9  (to power some other devices, I am thinking of trying Optical Networking and running some Fibre to my Aries,   maybe a project for later in the year).
  
Then again, UpTone Audio is releasing (in maybe a couple of months) a less expensive power supply (in comparison the the JS-2) for the Regen and other power add-on's, which I am very interested in, due to the very positive experience I have had with  their Regen product. This may free up the 9V on my HD-Plex PSU so I can use it for Fibre Media convertors for optical networking.  So, I am holding off getting a Teradak U9 for now.
  
Anyway, I look forward to your thoughts on ... Teradak U9   VS   HD-Plex Linear PSU ...  to power the USB Regen.


----------



## Franatic

Duke, I just ordered the HD Plex so it will be 1-2 weeks, it comes from China. It is good though it will give me a chance to see how the TeraDak compares sonically and also whether ithe U9 can handle this load which is near it's max.


----------



## Music Path

duke40 said:


> I did try briefly both the iFi Gemini between Regen and DAC (with the power side of the Gemini being powered by an XPAL XP18000 LiPo battery).
> I preferred the sound of the free USB A Male to B Male adapter between Regen and DAC.
> 
> Repeated the experiment ... I did not have the iUSB power had the Vaunix USB Hub instead so tried using the Vaunix for the power side of the Gemini ... still preferred the USB adapter.
> ...




Great review and interesting results.
Still wondering though, how good would 
be ifi mercury->regen->adapter->dac?
Seems to combine the best of two worlds.
Or adapter->regen->adapter->dac is better?
Thanks


----------



## Duke40

franatic said:


> Duke, I just ordered the HD Plex so it will be 1-2 weeks, it comes from China. It is good though it will give me a chance to see how the TeraDak compares sonically and also whether ithe U9 can handle this load which is near it's max.


 

 I am sure you will be happy with the HD-Plex,  I am.     Anyway, when you get a moment in a few weeks time, it would be great to hear your thoughts.


----------



## Duke40

music path said:


> duke40 said:
> 
> 
> > I did try briefly both the iFi Gemini between Regen and DAC (with the power side of the Gemini being powered by an XPAL XP18000 LiPo battery).
> ...


 
  
  
 I tried .... 
  
 ifi mercury->regen->adapter->dac
  
  
 I found the following better ... 
  
 adapter->regen->adapter->dac
  
  
  
 Now for some perspective ... on where using USB A Male to B Male adapters made the most difference.
  
 Using the adapter between Regen & DAC,  I consider essential ... & I am comfortable recommending this as I consider the difference to be easily heard (that is, not subtle).
  
 Placing another $1 USB A Male to B Male Adapter  (instead of using the iFi Mercury) between Source and Regen, I consider a subtle positive upgrade. 
  
  
 I think (and this seems to be the thoughts of a number of experienced people that I respect on Computer Audiophile), that if you want to get the very best out of the Regen,
 spending the money on an inexpensive linear PSU will give a better result for the same type of money that an audiophile USB costs.
 UpTone Audio are currently developing a number of power supply add-ons that could be used with the USB Regen, or other low voltage gear (I think for 5V or 7V gear, if my memory is correct).
  
 Oh,   the USB Regen sounds great just out of the box, with no tweaks ... there are just a number of us who are a bit OCD about milking the absolute best from this great USB device ... just wrote that to keep things in perspective or grounded.    
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## Superdad

Duke40:
 Thanks for all the informative posts about your experience and experimentation with the REGEN, cables, adapters, and power supplies.
  
 Just wanted everyone to know that I am subscribed to this thread and am happy to answer questions about the device itself, or shipping status.  I'd prefer to let others tackle all the little connection and power comparison issues and recommendations as I don't myself have time to experiment with lots of permutations.  But I am happy to clarify any facts.
 The REGEN threads at ComputerAudiophile are also a great place to find info and ask questions.  And someone even started a thread about our still-mysterious (but assuredly radical) forthcoming (October target) 1A 5/7V power supply:
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/uptone-audio-regen-power-supply-add-24963/index2.html#post440357
  
 Ciao,
  
 -Alex C.


----------



## Duke40

superdad said:


> Duke40:
> Thanks for all the informative posts about your experience and experimentation with the REGEN, cables, adapters, and power supplies.
> 
> Just wanted everyone to know that I am subscribed to this thread and am happy to answer questions about the device itself, or shipping status.  I'd prefer to let others tackle all the little connection and power comparison issues and recommendations as I don't myself have time to experiment with lots of permutations.  But I am happy to clarify any facts.
> ...


 
  
  
 Alex, your welcome.
  
"Voldemort" , the upcoming power supply device of which  "we dare not speak it's name" ... or the "still-mysterious (but assuredly radical) forthcoming (October target) 1A 5/7V power supply:"
 is what has me really intrigued ... not just for powering the REGEN ... but for some other low power devices for a project that I have in mind (Network Optical Isolation and maybe some OXCO clocks).
  
 I know that you have a couple of different power supply options for the Regen and other 5/7V gear currently being developed together with John Swenson.
  
 Once more detail can be revealed about these, then I would appreciate if you could post about them here in this thread ... though I do realise that may not be until sometime in September.
  
 *** What will probably happen, is that I will get excited about what I see on CA, and post the information here. ***
  
 As I am a "bitter & twisted" audiophile, it is quite unlike me to get excited ... though I am after my next significant fix or upgrade, so really am interested in what is coming next from UpTone Audio
 (when it becomes prudent to reveal the details).
  
 John


----------



## Music Path

duke40 said:


> I tried ....
> 
> ifi mercury->regen->adapter->dac
> 
> ...




Thanks for heads up, even though i have to admit the mercury will give me more space to move the DAC around the desk.
So far i read, i see that the regen should have an 5V power supply for best performance.
I'm interested in the ifi ipower 5V.
But you said that uptone is devolping their own power supliers, so should i wait for them?
Importantly i want less noise flor.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'm a bit confused, not too much of a tecchie...I'm using the LH Labs Geek Out 1k out of my computer (Special Edition), have it plugged into the Vaunix Lab Brick. Would a power supply go before the lab brick? separate into the Regen?
Thanks.


----------



## Duke40

music path said:


> duke40 said:
> 
> 
> > I tried ....
> ...


 
  
 That is what I am doing ... UpTone Audio of course have the JS-2 linear PSU, though my thoughts is that is a bit of overkill for just powering a single USB Regen
 (not that I don't think of getting a JS-2 ... if I could power a DAC and a Regen from the JS-2, then I would have bought one by now, unfortunately my DAC/HeadAMP requires 19V which is a bit rare),
 so I am waiting for their own UpTone Audio power supplies for the Regen which are both radical and less expensive.
  
 Oh, if your DAC requires 5V power for it's USB input, you may need an iFi power 9V  (they comes in 5V, 9V, 12V varieties) to plug into the power part of the USB Regen.
  
 This FAQ on UpTone website has more detailed information on why ...
 http://uptoneaudio.com/pages/usb-regen-questions-and-answers
   

  So I am going to be patient and wait for the new power products from UpTone Audio, hard as that may be for me


----------



## Music Path

duke40 said:


> That is what I am doing ... UpTone Audio of course have the JS-2 linear PSU, though my thoughts is that is a bit of overkill for just powering a single USB Regen
> (not that I don't think of getting a JS-2 ... if I could power a DAC and a Regen from the JS-2, then I would have bought one by now, unfortunately my DAC/HeadAMP requires 19V which is a bit rare),
> so I am waiting for their own UpTone Audio power supplies for the Regen which are both radical and less expensive.
> 
> ...




My DAC is the iDSD micro, and so far i know it does need 5V usb hub.
Thanks for info, and will look forward 
to Uptone Audio.


----------



## Duke40

doctorjazz said:


> I'm a bit confused, not too much of a tecchie...I'm using the LH Labs Geek Out 1k out of my computer (Special Edition), have it plugged into the Vaunix Lab Brick. Would a power supply go before the lab brick? separate into the Regen?
> Thanks.


 
  

 doctorjazz ... I just need to check that I understand your setup ... is it ???
  
 computer >> Vaunix Lab Brick >> USB Regen >> Geek Out 1000 (DAC/AMP)
  
 If I understand it right,   then the power supply that a few of us are talking about is replacing the Mean Well SMPS power supply (the one that came in the box with the USB Regen, as seen in the photo below) , and instead using an aftermarket power to feed into the USB Regen's 2.1mm DC input  (the one next to the REGEN's USB input).
  
  

  
  
 This can be done with things like the new  iFi iPower supply, or a number of us are already using aftermarket linear power supply units (Linear PSU's).
 Personally, I already owned a HD-Plex 100W Linear PSU to supply 19V to my Auralic DAC/AMP, was already using the 12V output to power the Vaunix USB hub ... so I used the 9V output to power the USB REGEN.
  
 So we are talking about plugging in different power supplies into the power port of the REGEN  (see photo below ... see where it says 6 to 8V input on the left of the photo ... where you normally plug the included Mean Well SMPS    DC cable into ..... )
  

  
  
  
*short answer :     "separate into the Regen" *
  
  
 I am actually going to get another 2 USB Regen's for my speaker rig and hook them up with those $1 USB A Male to B Male adapters   (as my experiment of placing REGEN >> REGEN was succesful in my headphone rig ... was a big increase by doing this ?   No ... just a *subtle *improvement,   the first REGEN is where you get the* significant* improvement).
  
 As my speaker rig is in a different room  (away from my HD-Plex Linear PSU) , and that I like how the REGEN's sound using a quality linear power supply ... well,  I am going to wait for the to-be-released improved & radical power supplies from UpTone Audio for those REGEN's/    If I was impatient, I could get a couple of Teradak U9 Linear power supplies , though I have recently experienced what a "bespoke" power supply can do for my Oppo BDP-103 (Oppomod linear PSU plus a power filter made by a French electrical engineer, also bespoke for the Oppo).
  
  
*short answer :*   these new upgraded aftermarket power supplies currently still in development will provide the very best power to your REGEN, downside ... we have to wait a couple of months as it is very* tenatively* being *suggested* , that they will be available early October.    
Anyway, they are the one's I will be getting for my REGEN's.
  
 John


----------



## doctorjazz

Thanks so much for that quick reply...with PICTURES, no less! My set up right now is, PC to Vaunix to Geek Out (sometimes line out to an amp), using JRIVER (actually the Pono version) as software.


----------



## Duke40

doctorjazz said:


> Thanks so much for that quick reply...with PICTURES, no less! My set up right now is, PC to Vaunix to Geek Out (sometimes line out to an amp), using JRIVER (actually the Pono version) as software.


 

 Thanks for clarifying your setup chain.
  
 By the way I also own the Vaunix USB Hub and when I got my first USB Regen, discovered it to have a wonderful synergy for headphone listening.  
 It was ;
 source > Vaunix USB Hub > USB Regen > Auralic Gemini 2000 DAC/AMP
  
  
 Technically I do not why the Vaunix has a nice synergy with the USB Regen, but I would rank these configurations in the following order, with  1   being the best ;
 1) source > Vaunix USB Hub > USB Regen > Auralic Gemini 2000 DAC/AMP
 2) source >  USB Regen > Auralic Gemini 2000 DAC/AMP
 3) source > Vaunix USB Hub > Auralic Gemini 2000 DAC/AMP
  
  
 Recently tested the following .... and it was the best of the lot (and the Vaunix/REGEN combo was hard to beat), another subtle improvement but  my new number 1 configuration ...
 source > USB Regen > USB Regen > Auralic Gemini 2000 DAC/AMP
  
 all with $1 USB A Male to B Male adapters  ... my "USB Journey" has resulted in that it is much better to spend the money on USB tweaks or gizmo's like the USB REGEN if you want a significant upgrade.


----------



## preproman

Regen just arrived.  Now I'm waiting for the TeraLink X2 LPS to arrive. 
  
 http://www.teradak.com/products/46.html
  
 Lets see what this does..


----------



## zilch0md

music path said:


> (snip)





> *So far i read, i see that the regen should have an 5V power supply for best performance.*
> I'm interested in the ifi ipower 5V.





> (snip)


 
  
*The Regen requires a minimum of 6V DC if it has to supply 5V power to your DAC or DAC/amp.*
*The Regen requires a minimum of 5V DC if it does not have to supply 5V power to your DAC or DAC/amp.*
  


duke40 said:


> (snip)
> 
> Oh, if your DAC requires 5V power for it's USB input, *you may need an iFi power 9V*  (they comes in 5V, 9V, 12V varieties) to plug into the power part of the USB Regen.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes!


----------



## zilch0md

duke40 said:


> That echoes my experience ... a tablet sounds better than a home computer.  I think tablets are extremely undervalued as a source.
> 
> (snip)


 
  
 I concur!
  
 Having previously replaced my laptop with a FiiO X5 (for several months) as a Coaxial S/PDIF source for my Metrum Acoustics Ocatve MkII > Metrum Acoustincs Aurix > HD800...
  
 ... then, concurrent with getting hooked on Tidal HiFi, replacing the FiiO X5 with an iPad 3 > Pure i-20 dock (for several months), again as a Coaxial source for my desktop rig...
  
 ...* I owe to you for infecting me with the idea of getting a CCK for my iPad 3 and ordering the USB Regen, for USB input to my Metrum stack > HD800.   Thanks!*
  
*Having briefly tried using my laptop > USB Regen > Metrum stack, there's no contest.  The internal battery-powered iPad 3 is much quieter.*  
  
 No hard drives, fans, or other moving parts - it's just quieter all around - and there's no chance of hum caused by a ground loop, either.
  


duke40 said:


> (snip)
> 
> Now for some perspective ... on where using USB A Male to B Male adapters made the most difference.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Indeed, UpTone's principles both advocate use of the the short adapter between USB Regen and DAC, and many people concur - this provides the best SQ, but there was one contributor at CA who said he tried putting a Supra 0.7m cable between the Regen and his DAC, while also using a Supra 0.7m cable between his USB source and the Regen - with spectacular results - saying that the second Supra cable made a big improvement in body and fullness (IIRC).  
  
 I posted that I have two Supra 0.7m cables, but when I replaced the small adapter (between the Regen and DAC) with a Supra 0.7m cable,_ I couldn't hear any difference.  _





  
 So, I guess that puts me on the fence regarding any audible difference between using the adapter or another USB cable, but I've gone back to using the short adapter - as it just makes sense to keep the path to the DAC as short as possible once the USB Regen has worked its bit-cleaning magic.
  
 Mike


----------



## zilch0md

preproman said:


> Regen just arrived. * Now I'm waiting for the TeraLink X2 LPS to arrive. *
> 
> http://www.teradak.com/products/46.html
> 
> Lets see what this does..


 
  
 I really like mine, having adjusted the output to 7.0V for use with the Regen.  I don't think there's any reason for concern about it not offering enough amperage.  The Regen itself only pulls about 45mA and if your DAC or DAC/amp is USB-powered, by convention, it can't pull more than 500 mA from a USB port.  So, together, the total load couldn't be more than about 550mA.  
  
 The Teralink X1/X2 LPS is rated at 800mA to 1000mA (varying with the voltage adjustment, I suspect).
  
 iPad 3 > CCK > Supra 0.7m cable > USB Regen > USB A to B adapter > Metrum USB 2 (Anamero) module > Octave MkII > Aurix > HD800
  

  
 Mike


----------



## doctorjazz

1)how much is that Teradak in the window?  (doesn't list price on the site, seems you have to complete the order to find out).
2)I have iPad 3, seems like a good idea to use for something like TIDAL, but you couldn't play higher resolution files, if I'm correct.


----------



## Franatic

doctorjazz said:


> 1)how much is that Teradak in the window?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I paid $59 for my TerDak U9 last year. I adjusted it down to 7.2 volts. The Regen likes it a little lower. At 8.5 to 9 volts the Regen runs hot. You just take out the top 4 corner screws and the top comes off. There is a little blue potentiometer, that is the adjustment.
  
 I switched back to HQ Player last night and I'm playing upsampled PCM at 768khz and Quad DSD at 11.2 mhz through the Regen to my micro. It plays flawlessly and sounds great. It's nice to use the insane sample rate capabilities of this awesome little micro.


----------



## Duke40

doctorjazz said:


> 2)I have iPad 3, seems like a good idea to use for something like TIDAL, but you couldn't play higher resolution files, if I'm correct.


 
  
 I have iPad 4  as well as iPhone 5 .... and can play higher resolution files, up to 24/96  both WAV and AIFF formats (which is the resolution at which I purchase music from HDtracks).
  
 I use an iOS app called   "Onkyo HF Player" , it is free, but has a $10 in app purchase that lets you do higher resolution.
 Think it can even do single rate DSD as well as 24/96 but I am not really into DSD much.
  
 You need an Apple CCK , and of course you will be limited by the storage on your iDevices.


----------



## doctorjazz

How about using it to stream from the PC, would that go higher in resolution (not that I can tell you for sure that I would hear the difference going to 24/192)? I have some apps on my ipad that stream...space on the iPad would be an issue for me, as it is for my Pono or other DAP, have lots of music, wouldn't have to add and remove on yet ANOTHER gadget!


----------



## Duke40

doctorjazz said:


> How about using it to stream from the PC, would that go higher in resolution (not that I can tell you for sure that I would hear the difference going to 24/192)? I have some apps on my ipad that stream...space on the iPad would be an issue for me, as it is for my Pono or other DAP, have lots of music, wouldn't have to add and remove on yet ANOTHER gadget!


 

 For streaming, I use JRiver Media Cente on my MacBook .... then JRemote iOS app on my iPhone.
 This works best for my CD rips at 16/44.1 redbook.
 Very stable for redbook ... though 24/96 is not, not good for streaming 24/96 (unless you convert to FLAC and use some lossless compression ... I do have a slight preference to keep music files in their native formats WAV or AIFF)
  
 So I use $10 Onkyo HF Player for 24/96 files stored on my iPhone .... then use $10 JRemote/  $50 JRiver Media Centre JRMC on my Macbook to stream CD.
 For a $70 in software ... it Works quite well.  Excellent in fact.


----------



## doctorjazz

Thanks, actually do have JRiver on my PC and another iMac, haven't used the app for iPad yet, I'll give it a try.


----------



## KritiKal

duke40 said:


> For streaming, I use JRiver Media Cente on my MacBook .... then JRemote iOS app on my iPhone.
> This works best for my CD rips at 16/44.1 redbook.
> Very stable for redbook ... though 24/96 is not, not good for streaming 24/96 (unless you convert to FLAC and use some lossless compression ... I do have a slight preference to keep music files in their native formats WAV or AIFF)
> 
> ...




+1 for Onkyo HF Player (on Android), I prefer it over USB Audio Player Pro, and any other mobile music player I've tried (all the major and some of the minor ones).


----------



## icebear

preproman said:


> Regen just arrived.  Now I'm waiting for the TeraLink X2 LPS to arrive.
> 
> http://www.teradak.com/products/46.html
> 
> Lets see what this does..


 

 Looking forward to your judgment ...


----------



## Duke40

preproman said:


> Regen just arrived.  Now I'm waiting for the TeraLink X2 LPS to arrive.
> 
> http://www.teradak.com/products/46.html
> 
> Lets see what this does..


 

 Yes, I am curious too.  You are a pretty experienced HeadFi'er (looking at your post count),  so I am curious on your thoughts.


----------



## head-hi

franatic said:


> I paid $59 for my TerDak U9 last year. I adjusted it down to 7.2 volts. The Regen likes it a little lower. At 8.5 to 9 volts the Regen runs hot. You just take out the top 4 corner screws and the top comes off. There is a little blue potentiometer, that is the adjustment.
> 
> I switched back to HQ Player last night and I'm playing upsampled PCM at 768khz and Quad DSD at 11.2 mhz through the Regen to my micro. It plays flawlessly and sounds great. It's nice to use the insane sample rate capabilities of this awesome little micro.


 

 I've got the U9 I use with their USB isolator board and would like to try the REGEN/U9. Can you tell me how to use a multimeter to adjust the pot? I design PCBs for a living, but know very little about the electrical side of the tech. Thanks. And did you stay with 7.2V? Uptone suggests 7V on their JS-2.


----------



## Franatic

head-hi said:


> I've got the U9 I use with their USB isolator board and would like to try the REGEN/U9. Can you tell me how to use a multimeter to adjust the pot? I design PCBs for a living, but know very little about the electrical side of the tech. Thanks. And did you stay with 7.2V? Uptone suggests 7V on their JS-2.


 
 The 7.2 volts was a compromise because the lower the voltage the higher current the U9 will put out. It is probably close to it's limit.....the higher voltage (8.5-9) is not good for the Regen. 7.2 was just a guess as to the best point for both devices.
  
 You measure the voltage with the output cable connected to the U9 but disconnected from the Regen. Measure the end you would insert into the Regen. Measure the voltage from the outside of the barrel connector (gnd) to the inside pin(+VDC).  You will have to stick the red voltmeter probe into the barrel, black on the metal outside of the barrel. It will read somewhere between 8.5 and 9 volts. With a little flat blade (jewelers) screwdriver, turn the potentiometer counterclockwise until you read between 7 to 7.2 volts. Done!


----------



## head-hi

franatic said:


> The 7.2 volts was a compromise because the lower the voltage the higher current the U9 will put out. It is probably close to it's limit.....the higher voltage (8.5-9) is not good for the Regen. 7.2 was just a guess as to the best point for both devices.
> 
> You measure the voltage with the output cable connected to the U9 but disconnected from the Regen. Measure the end you would insert into the Regen. Measure the voltage from the outside of the barrel connector (gnd) to the inside pin(+VDC).  You will have to stick the red voltmeter probe into the barrel, black on the metal outside of the barrel. It will read somewhere between 8.5 and 9 volts. With a little flat blade (jewelers) screwdriver, turn the potentiometer counterclockwise until you read between 7 to 7.2 volts. Done!


 

 That was easy. Thank you. One unit measured 8.49 and another at 8.44. I adjusted one to 7.1 for now. Thanks again.


----------



## Franatic

You're welcome.
  
 A friend sent me an SBooster to put on the power input to the Regen. It noticeably increased the transparency and depth of the audio. I decided to get the SBooster Ultra specifically developed for the Regen. I have another use for the other SBooster.
 I have since seen a reference to it earlier in this thread:
 http://www.sbooster.com/sbooster-ultra/switch-mode-upgrade-regen
 I will post my experience when I get it. It will be inserted between the power input of the Regen and the output of the Teradak U9. You can use it with whatever you power the Regen with.
  
 If you are in U.S. you can order Sbooster Ultra for the Regen by contacting Brian here:  proaudio@comcast.net
$50 shipped is not bad for a nice tweak like that.
  
Edit: The price is actually $100, we had a miscommunication about which device I was ordering,
        I'll still purchase it.


----------



## leeperry

^ IME the SBooster made the sound terribly flabby, it's just a passive device with a bunch of caps...no miracle to be expected IME(and others FWIR), let us know how it works for you then.


----------



## Franatic

leeperry said:


> ^ IME the SBooster made the sound terribly flabby, it's just a passive device with a bunch of caps...no miracle to be expected IME(and others FWIR), let us know how it works for you then.


 
 Yes, it is a filter and a passive device. Filters are effective in eliminating EMI/noise which is always the enemy of SQ. I've not read all the reviews of the sbooster, but there are several very positive reviews on Computer Audiophile. So with everything in computer audio, YRMV. I can say the sbooster made a positive difference in imaging details and noise floor on the Regen in MY system. I am projecting that the Ultra will be a notch better.
  
 I can say the combination of the TeraDak U9 and the sbooster is a significant upgrade over the supplied SMPS.
  
 Another passive device I love: http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7419-ps-audio-noise-harvester-black.aspx
 I have an outlet strip with 6 of them where my system is plugged in. They are like EMI defenders, guarding the gate.


----------



## preproman

Is the sbooster on the same lines as the iFi iPurifier?


----------



## mjock3

Nice tip Fran, I also use a few DIY noise harvester type devices in my system.
  
 And I have been following the Regen over at CA for while and the SBooster is considered a nice upgrade. Just got an email from Brian, and the SBooster that is $50 is not the Ultra it is the regular SBooster (passive), the Ultra is active and he is selling that for $100.


----------



## Franatic

preproman said:


> Is the sbooster on the same lines as the iFi iPurifier?


 
 The ipurifier would go on the usb line input and fight EMI there, the sbooster the power input line of the Regen. I have an ipurifier on my usb input for the Regen. It's effect is more subtle now that the Regen is in line also, but it helps some. If you get one, they take at least 100 hours to burn in. I already had mine.
  
 I have become a big fan of power quality, adding filtering, power conditioners and good power supplies wherever I can. The imaging and lower noise floor improvements these devices provide lead to a spectacular sound presentation. Transparent and multi-dimensional sound does not come easy......or cheap. That being said there are some nice bargains to be found.
  
 As this thread is about the Regen, I must give kudos to the folks at Uptone. The Regen is amazing and one of the best $ for $ audio purchases on the market.


----------



## mjock3

Ditto to power quality.
  
 In recent years I too have come to find that the quality of power is crucial to the sound you hear. Funny talking about the Regen, John Swenson had posted a power supply one could build for the Squeezebox Touch a few years back. I built one of those per details provided and it opened my eyes to the importance of power supplies. It provided a large jump in what you heard from the Squeezebox. Have found repeatedly that power supplies are important, and all things concerning power can provide nice returns.


----------



## Franatic

My apologies that my original post about the SBooster Ultra for the Regen is inaccurate. There was a misunderstanding between Brian and I. This device costs $100 and it also contains active filtering technology. The regular SBooster is passive. I will still order it but it will be 2-3 weeks until he gets them. It still connects the same way, in-line with your power supply input to the Regen. He is only ordering 5 units so...........


----------



## doctorjazz

I believe that is true, but, for those of us who are not DIYers, these upgrades are often as expensive or more than the gear they are powering. Good, reasonable tips are always much appreciated.


----------



## zilch0md

franatic said:


> (snip)
> 
> If you are in U.S. you can order Sbooster Ultra for the Regen by contacting Brian here:  proaudio@comcast.net
> $50 shipped is not bad for a nice tweak like that.
> ...


 
  
 Yes!
  
 I had sent Brian this email with the subject header "*SBooster Ultra for Regen*"...
  


> Hi Brian,
> 
> Referencing this post at the Head-Fi forum:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't quote other people's private communications without asking their permission, but he made no mention of wanting $100 for the Ultra version in his first reply, instead providing instructions for how to send him $50.
  
 So,* I apparently suffered the same miscommunication as you*, despite having used the subject header "SBooster Ultra for Regen" and providing a link to both your post and to the SBooster web site's page for the Ultra version.
  
 After asking for clarification of his obfuscated reply to my original query, in which he had quoted $50, he said he's out of stock on the $100 Ultra version.
  
 Mike


----------



## Franatic

Yes, I too was surprised because I thought which product I was ordering was very clear. I don't understand how he could have misunderstood, but I'll choose to give him the benefit of the doubt. I was referred to him by the the apparent owner of SBooster, Wiebren Draaijer. Brian is the only U.S. rep as far as I know.


----------



## leeperry

franatic said:


> Yes, it is a filter and a passive device. Filters are effective in eliminating EMI/noise which is always the enemy of SQ. I've not read all the reviews of the sbooster, but there are several very positive reviews on Computer Audiophile. So with everything in computer audio, YRMV. I can say the sbooster made a positive difference in imaging details and noise floor on the Regen in MY system. I am projecting that the Ultra will be a notch better.
> 
> I can say the combination of the TeraDak U9 and the sbooster is a significant upgrade over the supplied SMPS.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I also tried those: http://www.audioprism.com/quietline.html
  
 They killed transients to my ears, yet again no big miracle under the hood and a ridiculous price tag when you see that it's just two big caps in a plastic case.
  
 The Sbooster did exactly this to my ears: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?81454-S-Booster/page10


> I also tried the S-Booster between the Teddy Pardo PSU and my SBT. It changed the sound by a tiny little bit. Rolled-off highs, and a reduction in overall dynamics.


 
  
 Oh right, the CA forum...I don't believe anything of what's written there and I'm still eagerly awaiting a Schitt Wyrd/Regen shoot-out if anyone could make it happen please.


----------



## Superdad

leeperry said:


> Oh right, the CA forum...I don't believe anything of what's written there and I'm still eagerly awaiting a Schitt Wyrd/Regen shoot-out if anyone could make it happen please.


 
  
 Hi Lee:
  
 Sorry to hear you don't like the CA forum.  There are some smart and thoughtful people over there who have been pursing hifi for many decades.  Both myself and my friend/engineer partner John Swenson hand out there mostly.  And some fairly groundbreaking stuff goes on over there--both around hardware and software.  It is not much of a headphone site though.
  
 As to a shoot-out between the Schitt Wyrd and UpTone REGEN, would you like to do that yourself?  I have a Wyrd I could loan you along with a REGEN, and you could then hear and report about the differences yourself.  If you are interested, drop me a message via the contact form at our web site (UpToneAudio.com).
  
 Thanks and regards,
  
 Alex C.


----------



## john57

I have tried the Wyrd in the past and it did not help with any of my IFI products and in fact it sounded slightly worst. I returned it. The REGEN may have a better chance at this point.


----------



## leeperry

superdad said:


> Hi Lee:
> 
> Sorry to hear you don't like the CA forum.  There are some smart and thoughtful people over there who have been pursing hifi for many decades.  Both myself and my friend/engineer partner John Swenson hand out there mostly.  And some fairly groundbreaking stuff goes on over there--both around hardware and software.  It is not much of a headphone site though.
> 
> As to a shoot-out between the Schitt Wyrd and UpTone REGEN, would you like to do that yourself?  I have a Wyrd I could loan you along with a REGEN, and you could then hear and report about the differences yourself.  If you are interested, drop me a message via the contact form at our web site (UpToneAudio.com).


 
  
 Hi Alex,
  
 Good to read that you are a MOT and also very responsive to forum goers chitchatting, thanks a lot for the offer.
  
 Truth is I already run a combination of Schiit Wyrd, a vastly pimped USB2 computer controller card with a 20ppm clock, linear low-noise VR's and low ESR OScon caps together with a triple shielded USB cable and yeah, each of those has drastically improved SQ.
  
 I'd gladly take you up on the offer but in order to make the comparison fair I guess I should feed a proper 6-8V linear PSU and I don't have anything like that here. I'm also not too keen on trying the Teradak PSU as I briefly owned one in the past, wasn't impressed by SQ and there are reports of it overheating......I don't trust made-in-a-garage non-CE compliant AC appliances anyway.
  
 A friend of mine who runs the exact same USB rig as mine feeding his R2R DAC might have one, I'll check with him. He's located in the US so this would also make things more convenient for you I think and being the same OCD'ed audiophool that I am he'll more than likely bite to your offer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Well, it's just that the FOTM effect seems very strong on CA and every new tweak would be so much awesomer than the previous one(even this one hah!), the new toy syndrom does affect judgment I'll give you that....and as you said, many ppl would appear to be using loudspeakers and without a proper DRC there is no better or worse, only "different" as a good DRC should allow going from this to that, providing an as flat as possible frequency response allowing proper comparisons of audio tweaks. It's the same story as coax transports really, the standard is so broken that there is no better or worse but only different, link courtesy of Currawong: http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/TRANSPORT/CD_transport_DIY.html
  
 Long story short, it would great if you could make a new rev that would provide a proper linear PSU of its own, I think the legendary TREAD LM317 PSU came with ridiculous ripple specs and I'd love to have that in Regen


----------



## Karin Hoks

Hello Lee,
  
 I am Karin of SBooster and I am sorry to read that the SBooster Single Unit did not work on your Teddy Pardo and SB Touch.
  
 This SBooster SU is a passive device which works fine for upgrading a SMPS and some LPSs. It is developed to reduce the output noise of noisy PSUs.
  
 The SBooster SU is not compatible with the Teddy Pardo, because the input impedance of the SBooster SU is too low for the Teddy Pardo, which results in instability of this LPS. And of course the well designed and manufactured Teddy Pardo products are not that noisy, I believe.
  
 It is a pity that you did not contact us on this matter in the past. For then we (or our dealer) would have been able to clarify this to you and we could have found a solution, E.g. to have you return the product for a refund.
  
 Regarding powering the Uptone Regen or upgrading it, at this moment we offer the following possibilities:

The SBooster Single Unit for the Regen as the most economic option;
The SBooster Ultra for the Regen as medium priced option;
Or our new BOTW P&P ECO 5-6V to replace the PSU as more expensive option.
  
 Options 1 & 2 are add-ons for the stock supplied Meanwell SMPS. Option 3 replaces the Meanwell completely.
  
 Mr Al Jones has checked all these options. You can check his findings on CA.
  
 A small note on the BOTW P&P ECO audio upgrade power supply: It is more than "just another LPS". It has the following extras:

a dual stage mains filter with an earthline choke
static shielded audio grade transformer
anti-oscillation system to prevent oscillation of the transformer
innovative electronic design for getting 50% more power out of used electronics
100% galvanic isolation between the AC-input and the DC-output
“Split-current” technique, which makes the current extremely fast
and of course the SBooster technique at the end of the power cable
  
 Due to our bi-directional mains filter the BOTW P&P ECO does not pollute the mains. Also this audio upgrade has the following certifications: CE-EMC, CE-LVD, GS, cTUVus, PSB, FCC.
  
 If you want to check (one of) these options for yourself, please drop me a message.
  
 Regards,
 Karin


----------



## zilch0md

My latest "transportable" rig:
  




  
*iPad 3 > CCK > Supra USB 0.7m > UpTone Audio USB Regen powered by 9V Anker Astro Pro LiPo battery > Oppo HA-2 > Sennheiser HD 800*
  
 There's room for improvement with the USB A -to- USB Micro B cable that connects the USB Regen to the OPPO HA-2  
  
 It sounds great at the moment, but it goes against the consensus that you want this connection to be as short as possible. With the USB Regen having "washed" the bits, why get them dirty again?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've ordered a "solid" adapter and a short cable that looks promising, in case the solid adapter puts to much stress on the connections by nature of the Oppo HA-2 being thinner than the USB Regen.  Then again, I could always elevate the HA-2 with some kind of a shim beneath it, I suppose.
  
 I'll be testing both of them to make sure their shields are connected at both ends.
  
 The 9V Anker battery pack is right at the maximum voltage recommended by UpTone for powering the USB Regen when the DAC/amp (or DAC) is USB-powered.  The Oppo HA-2 will automatically attempt to recharge its internal battery if it can pull enough amps at 5V from the source, so the USB Regen is most likely delivering the full 500 mA allowed by the USB 2.0 convention.  This translates to the voltage regulator inside the Regen running pretty hot - the very reason why it's preferable to keep the Regen's supply voltage closer to the minimum permissible 6V when connecting to a USB-powered DAC or DAC/amp. 
  
 The USB Regen's case is aluminum, of course, which certainly helps, but after about 30 minutes of play, I used a laser thermometer, measuring these temperatures:
  
   71.5 F -  ambient (table top) 
 102.3 F -  top center of USB Regen case
  
 On seeing this (and feeling the top of the case), I went to my parts box and pulled out this aluminum heat sink - that fits perfectly between the raised ribs of the USB Regen case, making good contact with the top of the case:
  

  
  
 Thirty minutes later, with the rig still playing, the ambient temperature was still 71.5 F, but on removing the heat sink and quickly measuring the top of the USB Regen again, it's running much cooler, at *89.5 F*, a drop of 12.8 degrees from *102.3 F*. I see no reason not to use this heat sink all the time with the USB Regen.
  
 Meanwhile, this "transportable" rig *almost* has me wondering why I need a desktop rig.
  
 With everything running on battery power, there's no concern for conditioning or filtering AC power. The iPad 3 with CCK is dead quiet compared to either of my laptops and, as I've previously reported in the Oppo HA-2 thread, I really love the way the HA-2's ES9018-K2M DAC and seemingly insufficient 30mW into 300-Ohm amp section (used with the Low Gain setting) sound when driving the HD800.  
  
 Having endured about 14 months of love/hate relationship with the HD800 after first getting it, while trying numerous combinations of DAC and amp, I finally landed on using the Metrum Acoustics Octave MkII (*NOS* DAC) with the Metrum Aurix (*zero-feedback *amp) - to escape the brittle edginess that the HD800 had conveyed with the oversampling DACs and high-feedback amps that I had tried beforehand.
  
 So, how is it that the Oppo HA-2's ovesampling DAC and Class AB amp (which most likely uses feedback) is so satisfying with the HD800?  I really think it's the lack of "sufficient" power that's slowing down the HD800, softening it just a touch, but the thing to understand here is that the bass frequencies, which require more power to control, are affected by the lack of power moreso than the treble - where I'm hearing only a very slight loss of detail.  Put it this way - the loss of detail in the treble and mids is so slight, I can still very readily detect the absence of the USB Regen if I remove it from the chain.
  
 But down in the bass region, there's a wooliness (inversely proportional to frequency) that actually enhances the apparent bass energy of the HD800, without any significant loss of texture or detail.  _Woolliness _is almost too strong a word, but again, I think it's precisely because the Oppo HA-2 is under-powering the HD800 that the bass energy is very nicely enhanced, and I'm not using the Bass+ feature of the HA-2. This rig in no way colors or hinders the HD800, as do so many other "solutions" I've heard. I suspect that anyone who hears this rig would agree the HD800 is _almost_ at its best with the traits for which it is most admired, with the exception of bass texture. The dynamics are amazing considering the 30mW into 300-Ohm rating and I'm operating the volume control at about 90% on Low Gain and the fatigue so often associated with the HD800 is completely absent.  On High Gain, the noise floor comes up a bit, so I much prefer the blackness of Low Gain.
  
 In terms of bang-for-the-buck, the USB Regen is bringing more to the table (literally) than anything else pictured above, but even independent of price, the USB Regen continues to command an appreciation of its capabilities. There's nothing quite like pulling it out of the chain after even just a couple of weeks of use to feel its absence.  "Quick!  Plug it back in!"   
  




  
 Mike


----------



## Superdad

Cool set-up Mike!  Makes me want to pull out my Apple camera connection kit again and give it a go.  What is cool is that the REGEN, being a powered hub, overcomes the problem of the iPad/iOS complaining that every DAC is drawing to much power and denying the connection.
  
 Yes, a solid adapter--or perhaps another Supra cable (I think they offer them with a micro 'B' plug)--on the output side of the REGEN will improve things a lot.  You are loosing the impedance match ad some of the signal integrity gain of the REGEN by running the cable pictured.
  
 Really glad you are having so much fun and experimenting with your gear.  We are proud that you are making the REGEN an integral part of it.
  
 Thanks and regards,
  
 --Alex C.
  
 P.S.  A nice review (with some in-depth tech details about USB issues and the REGEN that we provided) hits AudioStream.com tomorrow.


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks Superdad,
  
 It will be fun to see what the "professional" reviewers have to say, given the nearly unanimous thumbs up the USB Regen has enjoyed from "amateurs."   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mike


----------



## Superdad

zilch0md said:


> Thanks Superdad,
> 
> It will be fun to see what the "professional" reviewers have to say, given the nearly unanimous thumbs up the USB Regen has enjoyed from "amateurs."
> 
> ...


 

 Hey, their ears are no more "golden" then the rest of ours.  They just often get loaned much more expensive gear to play with.


----------



## BaTou069

Interesting little device. Would that make the use of a SoTM USB Card irellevant?
  
 Thanks


----------



## mjock3

More like a nice addition to the SoTM.


----------



## semeniub

REGEN review in Audiostream is up:
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/uptone-audio-usb-regen#61GxkxU42MWyZpE7.97


----------



## BaTou069

mjock3 said:


> More like a nice addition to the SoTM.


 
 But if the regen takes the usb signal and outputs a new and cleaner usb signal to the dac, then it shouldn't matter if the original usb signal comes out from the mobo or the SoTM card, since its redone anyway, no?


----------



## Superdad

batou069 said:


> But if the regen takes the usb signal and outputs a new and cleaner usb signal to the dac, then it shouldn't matter if the original usb signal comes out from the mobo or the SoTM card, since its redone anyway, no?


 

 Upstream improvements still help some because the REGEN's own PHY chip is still subject to variances in signal integrity of what it's fed.  (Some people are using 2 REGENs in series so that the DAC-conected one gets a higher quality signal itself.)  There is full explanation of the USB issue and how the REGEN works at the beginning of the Audiostream review.  They were kind enough to publish the entire simplified version of our "white paper" on the subject.  Here is an excerpted paragraph relevant to your question (but you need to read the whole piece for definitions of some terms:
  
"Does the REGEN eliminate the need for a good USB cable and other computer optimizations?:
No. The hub chip inside the REGEN has its own PHYs and protocol engine, which themselves generate packet noise on ITS power and ground planes. So the REGEN itself is also sensitive to the SI of the signal fed to it, which is why good USB cables and specialty USB host boards feeding it still make a difference—maybe just not as much. A lot of time was spent on the design and board layout to minimize this packet noise but it is still there. The impedance of the "Power Delivery Network" (PDN) over a broad range of frequencies determines the amplitude of the packet noise produced by the hub chip. The REGEN’s frequency optimized PDN is what makes it such a good sounding source."


----------



## mjock3

Nice write up in AudioStream. Congrats Alex & John!


----------



## porridgecup

I'd like to try this device out. I just have a desktop computer powered by wall outlet, and connected to a Gungnir DAC, BHA-1 amp, and headphones. DAC and amp also powered by the wall outlets. Balanced cables for the whole chain, except for PC to DAC, which is USB cable.
  
 Is there anything else I should be placing between my outlet and computer, or outlet and Regen, or Regen and DAC, or DAC and amp, to get the best out of this?


----------



## Jon L

porridgecup said:


> Is there anything else I should be placing between my outlet and computer, or outlet and Regen, or Regen and DAC, or DAC and amp, to get the best out of this?


 
  
 Even the Audiostream review comments that a $799 linear PS made only "subtle" improvements over the stock SMPS.  I had similar experience trying linear supply I already had compared to stock.  However, this Li battery DIY contraption made the most improvement in SQ for me and probably cost like $15, all from eBay


----------



## porridgecup

So you're suggesting powering the Regen with a battery power source instead of wall power, or what? Sorry, I don't know a great deal about audio setups and am unsure where that would be used.


----------



## Jon L

Yes, exactly.  Two 18650 batteries in series in that battery holder results in 7.4 V perfect for Regen, which does not sip much juice and can be powered for very, very long time with the two batteries.  One can always rig up a fancy recharging system, or simply swap in recharged batteries after several listening sessions.


----------



## ccklone

nevermind


----------



## tgx78

Dang, I should try this as well. I have tons of good quality (sanyo, AW, panasonic) 18650s from my flashlight hobby days.


----------



## zilch0md

zilch0md said:


> My latest "transportable" rig:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Much better, but I'm having to shim the Oppo HA-2 with a mouse pad to get it to the correct height for the USB Regen's USB A connector...
  
  

  
 Joy!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mike


----------



## Superdad

Well I'd like to see you bring that set up on your next plane trip! (Excuse me, may I use your tray-table?)
 Not exactly portable any more.


----------



## zilch0md

^ LOL

I suppose I could mount it on a pegboard and hang it from the overhead compartment...


----------



## seeteeyou

These graphs showed that unregulated 18650 could dip just under 3V (i.e. 2.75V or so) under load before the protective circuitry kicks in
  
 http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650CurvesAll%20UK.html
  
 2S1P or 2S2P etc. could result in less than 6V unregulated and that's a bit shy according to Mike's post here
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index57.html#post435433
  


> *To power the USB Regen*, you will need a supply that delivers a minimum current of 1 Amp, in the range of 6VDC to 12VDC, as follows:
> 
> *6V* is the lowest you can go, keeps heat inside the Regen to a minimum and it works for DACs that require 5V USB power or DACs that don't, but the Regen might not sound as good as when powered with higher voltages.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The highs of unregulated 18650 should be around 4.2V when they're fully charged, so 8.4V ain't a big deal with a pair of them.
  
 Could the lowest range be a concern if that were dipping all the way down to 5.5V?
  
  
 For safety reasons, is it a good idea to go for protected cells?
  
 http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Panasonic%20NCR18650B%20Protected%203400mAh%20(Green)%20UK.html


----------



## doctorjazz

Waiting to get my Regen...I've been following this thread since I heard about it. Have to say, reading it feels like I'm in a foreign country and only understand a bit of the language


----------



## KritiKal

Just read the Regen review on Audiostream and subsequently, the Jitter Bug review. This got me wondering about how it would affect the signal after the Regen, rather than after the source if it was used instead of a USB adapter. It could be perfect to use with the iDSD Micro between the Regen and the Micro, due to the recessed male connection on the DAC, without having to add another link in the chain. I was considering buying a custom adapter from Forza (like Franatic has), but perhaps this would serve a better/dual purpose?
  
 Does anyone have any experience with a Regen and Jitterbug combo?
 I'm thinking that for $79AUD shipped, it's certainly worth trying.


----------



## Franatic

kritikal said:


> Just read the Regen review on Audiostream and subsequently, the Jitter Bug review. This got me wondering about how it would affect the signal after the Regen, rather than after the source if it was used instead of a USB adapter. It could be perfect to use with the iDSD Micro between the Regen and the Micro, due to the recessed male connection on the DAC, without having to add another link in the chain. I was considering buying a custom adapter from Forza (like Franatic has), but perhaps this would serve a better/dual purpose?
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with a Regen and Jitterbug combo?
> I'm thinking that for $79AUD shipped, it's certainly worth trying.


 
 I sent an email to Matthew of Forza requesting an adapter be made for the Regen. I asked for a male to male usb 'A'>'B'. I will use it with the one he had previously made me for the micro idsd. I will use the new adapter by itself when I connect the Regen to the future idsd pro.
  
 The Audioquest Jitter Bug looks like an interesting device. I already have an ifi ipurifier in line with the Regen. I suppose the Jitter bug might be overkill but at $49.....??
  
 I started using the micro in battery mode with the Regen and improved SQ even more. The Regen rocks!!
  
 EDIT: Kritikal, I just digested what you said about using the Jitter bug. I would get rid of the ForzA adapter and the adapter sent with the Regen and put the Jitter Bug directly between the micro and the Regen............SWEET! I'm going to try that.


----------



## KritiKal

franatic said:


> I sent an email to Matthew of Forza requesting an adapter be made for the Regen. I asked for a male to male usb 'A'>'B'. I will use it with the one he had previously made me for the micro idsd. I will use the new adapter by itself when I connect the Regen to the future idsd pro.
> 
> The Audioquest Jitter Bug looks like an interesting device. I already have an ifi ipurifier in line with the Regen. I suppose the Jitter bug might be overkill but at $49.....??
> 
> ...




Yeah, it's definitely worth trying! My main IEM's aren't with me at the moment (getting a replacement due to the faceplate coming off with a minor drop). The best I have at the moment are the Shure SE425 (I regret selling the SM64 now!), and they're not the best to realize a gain from tweaks like this. I'll hold out a week or two until there's a point to grab one, and hopefully some people such as yourself will have the chance to try it. 

Interesting that you preferred the Regen and iDSD combo with the iDSD running off battery, I found the opposite to bring a (decent) improvement.


----------



## BaTou069

Did some one try the Regen with the LH Labs Geek Out/Pulse? (without LPS)


----------



## Superdad

franatic said:


> I sent an email to Matthew of Forza requesting an adapter be made for the Regen. I asked for a male to male usb 'A'>'B'. I will use it with the one he had previously made me for the micro idsd. I will use the new adapter by itself when I connect the Regen to the future idsd pro.
> 
> The Audioquest Jitter Bug looks like an interesting device. I already have an ifi ipurifier in line with the Regen. I suppose the Jitter bug might be overkill but at $49.....??
> 
> ...


 
 No, that is not a good idea.  Please do not put anything between your DAC and the REGEN.  Signal integrity and impedance match are bed right our the REGEN.  Anything else will mess with that.


----------



## Franatic

superdad said:


> No, that is not a good idea.  Please do not put anything between your DAC and the REGEN.  Signal integrity and impedance match are bed right our the REGEN.  Anything else will mess with that.


 
 Thanks for monitoring our ideas and giving us good feedback. I will scrap that Jitter Bug idea.
  
 I will proceed with the Forza made adapter to replace the the stock 'A' to 'B' adapter supplied.
  
 For Kritikal:
 I retested the battery mode vs usb power for the micro. I found battery mode gave a slightly blacker background. Both ways sound superb.


----------



## Jerryfan

Is it "Mid August" yet?


----------



## Superdad

franatic said:


> Thanks for monitoring our ideas and giving us good feedback. I will scrap that Jitter Bug idea.
> 
> I will proceed with the Forza made adapter to replace the the stock 'A' to 'B' adapter supplied.


 
  
 I am not saying you shouldn't use the Jitterbug--it may prove complementary to the REGEN.  I am just saying to be sure not to use it AFTER the REGEN.  The REGEN and some short adaptor or really good short USB cable should be things closest to the DAC.


----------



## doctorjazz

batou069 said:


> Did some one try the Regen with the LH Labs Geek Out/Pulse? (without LPS)



I use the Geek Out Special Edition, have ordered the Regen, can let you know when I get it. I'm sure I'll post here.


----------



## Superdad

jerryfan said:


> Is it "Mid August" yet?


 

 As of Monday, August 10, one could almost officially say it is mid-August.  In celebration of that, 150 REGENs are going to the post office tomorrow!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Another 150, the balance of orders with "mid-August" promise dates will leave either Friday, the 14th, or Monday, the 17th.  
 Not sure because we are also shipping 16 JS-2 choke-filtered LPS units this week.  That is a record-size batch of those and a LOT of time is involved.  They are all built, but even the shipping logistics for packing and sending around the world gets pretty involved.
  
 Remember, you will always receive a tracking number on the afternoon of shipment (2:00 California time is when those notices go out).  So if your order number is lower than 1915 and you don't get a notice tomorrow, it means you are in the next batch later in the week/following Monday.  Order numbers 1915 and above are all promised (at the time you ordered and in the acknowledgement e-mail) for September delivery and we are on track to build and have those ready to go quite early in September.
  
 Thanks and regards,
 ALEX C.


----------



## Franatic

superdad said:


> I am not saying you shouldn't use the Jitterbug--it may prove complementary to the REGEN.  I am just saying to be sure not to use it AFTER the REGEN.  The REGEN and some short adaptor or really good short USB cable should be things closest to the DAC.


 
 Hey SD,
 No worries, I completely understood your concerns placing it after the Regen. At $50, I will try it other places. I have 2 places I want to audition it. The first being the usb output port to the Regen on the PPA card of my audio pc. The 2nd one is the intriguing option, I want to put it on the PPA usb card input port on my Control pc where I input music from a 4tb Lacie external hard drive.
 I have sent an email to Matthew of Forza Audio requesting him to make an adapter between the Regen and the micro idsd.


----------



## Chikolad

superdad said:


> In celebration of that, 150 REGENs are going to the post office tomorrow!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Being with order #1656, I feel quite happy now


----------



## Chikolad

batou069 said:


> Did some one try the Regen with the LH Labs Geek Out/Pulse? (without LPS)


 
  
 Perhaps I'm responsible for a future lightening of your wallet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To answer your question, it looks like this guy did: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/uptone-audio-regen-listening-impressions-24078/index8.html#post419976


----------



## doctorjazz

The CA quote is for a Pulse WITH LPS, with the 2G usb cable, not sure how much you can generalize (though, if it helps that set up, odds are it will help a more bare bones set up).


----------



## leeperry

zilch0md said:


> Joy!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Mike, great pic thanks for sharing and I don't mean to break it or anything like that but you might be quite surprised by what's in those neat little $1 USB adapters of yours:
  


 


  
 Yes, steel wires of the cheapest kind they could source.


----------



## Superdad

leeperry said:


> Hi Mike, great pic thanks for sharing and I don't mean to break it or anything like that but you might be quite surprised by what's in those neat little $1 USB adapters of yours:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, steel wires of the cheapest kind they could source.


 
  
 Sorry to disappoint you Lee, but before I made the selection for what to include with the REGEN I cut open 5 versions of USB A>B adapters, and they ALL had copper wire in them.  Here is a pic of the exact one that comes with the REGEN (I have 900 on the shelf so I can sacrifice a few to science 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)  I think you need to find a new source for adapters.
  


 By the way, you mentioned a page or two back about a nice LPS for the REGEN.  We have been working on something crazy-cool, affordable, and ENTIRELY different than anything that has come before it, and someone prematurely started a thread about on CA: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/uptone-audio-regen-power-supply-add-24963/index2.html#post440357
 Won't be released for about another 90 days.
  
 You also mentioned LM317 regs for an LPS.  We would never want to use that ancient device as their performance is vastly worse than the 1A TI TPS7A4700 we use inside the REGEN.  Take a look at this comparison chart: https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2011/03/29/new-breed-of-ultra-low-noise-regulators/
  
 Your friend in Texas did contact me by the way.
  
 Best regards,
  
 ALEX


----------



## leeperry

Hi Alex,
  
 Thanks for the swift reply, it's not very often that you see gear manufacturers take the time to pretty much instantly reply in public threads discussing their equipment so major kudos for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Right, I didn't know that you do provide them with the unit and I forgot that there are indeed better adapters than the $1 chinese ebay ones. Conductors still aren't quite as thick as decent USB cables and nowhere near as shielded but I'll give you that those adapters are short so it might not matter nearly as much, this said they can put a lot of strain on USB connectors and I did kill a small USB DAC input like this once hooked up onto an ADuM4160 dongle.
  
 I'm no engineer and I do realize that for instance Benchmark claimed that they used a low-noise SMPS in their DAC-2 because it provided higher performance than a LPS, but IME the latter always sound more natural and less digitis-ridden than the former. I would love to be proven wrong and will be eagerly looking forward my friend's findings regarding a Wyrd Vs Regen shoot-out for sure.
  
 Noise is one thing, but at the end of the day one of the main factors that would matter the most to SQ would be ripple and these figures seem really really low: http://www.diyforums.org/MiniMAX/MiniMAXhistory3.php


> With the LM317, TO-220 rectifiers and 4000uf onboard capacitance, it was certainly designed and constructed to the same standards. (..) Tangent's TREAD power supply measures 0.060mVAC, with the STEPS very slightly better at 0.058mVAC. I confirmed for Colin that (..) the newly constructed miniature MAX with board surgery measured 0.0mVAC on the Fluke.


 
  
 Zero ripple basically, using LM317 as far as I understand. How can it get any better than that? Can a switched mode PS or regulator provide zero ripple?
  
 BTW, great blog you linked here(I spent more time than I would admit reading it ^^) and I see that he mentions WaveIO, which reminds me that it doesn't work with Wyrd. Lucian gave me a technical explanation to it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/724519/schiit-decrapifier-released-usb-power-isolator/390#post_11355378
  
 Would Regen suffer from the same issue?


----------



## Superdad

leeperry said:


> Hi Alex,
> 
> Thanks for the swift reply, it's not very often that you see gear manufacturers take the time to pretty much instantly reply in public threads discussing their equipment so major kudos for that
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Lee:
  
 I am always happy to reply, even though I don't always have the time.  But I do like to correct mis-information, and while I know it is not intentional, your post has a lot of it.  Please do not take offense in any of the following.
 1) I pay $0.45 a piece for the Chinese adaptors (that's where the are ALL made) with stranded, copper wire; USB spec calls for 28awg wire for the signal pair and that is what these have. (BTW, those ADuM4160s, aside from not offering 480Mbps high-speed, are major jitter sources.  In a ranking of isolator chips and technologies, they own the bottom.)
  
 2) Sonic differences between the Wyrd and the REGEN have virtually nothing to do with power supplies.  Schitt choses to run 6V AC from an unregulated wall transformer and put the diodes and all PS caps on the board with the rest of the device.  That's their choice and one could speculate about if the diode noise swamps their nice low noise regulator their clock--but the Schitt guys are smart, and I'm not the engineer here.  The REGEN has two of the TI TPS ultra-low-noise linear regulators and does fine from the SMPS.  People can add a nice LPS (or our forthcoming piece) if their system is allergic.
 The differences between the Wyrd and REGEN are all about how the data is handled in and out of the hub chip (and the networks around it).  John Swenson focused on signal integrity (rise/fall times of the signal edges, amplitude of the signal, noise sitting on top of the signal and jitter of the edges) and on providing a near perfect 90ohm output impedance (using a 4-layer board was required to accomplish that).  With its two-layer board and a cable required on its output, it does not seem like those were priorities for the Wyrd (though again, my greatest respect for the company and people of Schiit--they do terrific things there and I admire their business practices and acumen immensely.)
  
 3) You quoted 0.06mV and 0.058mV noise figures.  Aside from needing to know over what bandwidth and at what output current those were taken at for them to have meaning, 0.06mV is 60µV, and that is still 15 times the 4µV noise of the regulators we use in the REGEN.
  
 4) I use a WaveIO in my DAC and it works fine with both the Wyrd and the REGEN.  Sorry, but the post you linked to has a lot of mis-information as well.  With over 1,000 REGENs sold, over 99.7% of users have been able to get it to work in their system. 
  
 Feel free to ask any other questions, and I'll try to get John on to answer as well.
  
 Thanks and regards,
 Alex C.


----------



## leeperry

Hi Alex,
  
 OK sounds good, well:
  
 1) My best sounding USB cable by far runs solid copper conductors with triple shielding and I personally prefer to replace A/B adapters(that are prone to put too much strain on USB connectors and have dramatic consequences) by dual-shielded gold-plated 6" cables that are made of AWG20 wires for both data and power lines. They surely all are made in China but I meant those that are shipped directly from there on ebay for $1. USB specs, yes, those that are meant to power HDD's and mice.
  
 Yes, that blog you mentioned made very clear that there is no free lunch to be expected from galvanic isolation, same goes for isolated DC-to-DC converters that come with huge ripple specs. He also made clear that I²S isolators will drastically add jitter and distort the signal: https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/which-digital-isolators-for-i2s-or-not/
  
 Same goes for S/PDIF transformers, FWIR lowest measured jitter specs often/usually come from interfaces that lack isolation altogether.
  
 2) OK sounds good, I eventually meant when feeding USB-powered audio devices but if Regen can achieve lower ripple from a SMPS on +5VDCc than Wyrd(running LM723 and claiming "2.5uV RMS noise" specs) then it would be great to know how much of a difference we're talking about here if any possible. I'm not questioning anyone's expertise on anything here and I do realize that the sales pitch for Wyrd is a little sketchy to say the least. The latter is still a far cry from previous kludges that would simply hijack the bus power(and replace it with a rebadged OEM LPS from Symbol or a 50g cellphone wallwart for instance), at least Wyrd was AFAIK the first one to run as a powered hub and do it by the rules so to speak....and again without any SMPS involved.
  
 Make it an audiophool claim if you like and I'm totally willing to believe you but many audiophiles lose attention as soon as they read that a USB PSU runs off a SMPS. The whole idea would be that many countries don't allow LPS due to their poor efficiency, that SMPS are lighter so they lower freight costs, that it's all happening at the expense of SQ and that running a linear VR off a SMPS will never quite sound as good as a pure unmolested good ole heavy LPS.
  
 3) Very impressive if this figure can be achieved IRL at 5V@450mA off a SMPS then, kudos again!
  
 4) WaveIO definitely doesn't work off my Wyrd and I did try the combo off several USB2/USB3 computer controllers for that matter. Neither does it off my friend's who contacted you, he's kinda bummed that it doesn't work tbh and he'd happily try it off Regen......maybe it's a firmware/rev issue then or maybe both our Wyrd's are somewhat faulty.


----------



## doctorjazz

Got my email, Regen shipped. Really curious how it will sound with my Geek Out Special Edition (which I think sounds pretty great already).


----------



## BaTou069

chikolad said:


> Perhaps I'm responsible for a future lightening of your wallet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah kind of, I'm on order #2162, not much time to wait


----------



## Chikolad

batou069 said:


> Yeah kind of, I'm on order #2162, not much time to wait


 
  
 Mine was shipped last night


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, Regen came today, connected to my PC system...which means, PC to Regen>Vaunix Lab Brick>Geek Out Special Edition>HE-1000 (Norne cables). Impressions on first few minutes of listening: closer perspective, great detail, space, think the bass is a bit softened, though. (listening to Hi Rez American Beauty and Workingman's Dead, the Grateful Dead, of course, through PonoPlayer (JRiver20). Very Early on, though, can change my mind/impressions, may change with break in, may change with the phase of the moon or the tides, a bottle of beer would likely change things a bit (someone brought me a craft beer called "Sweet Baby Jesus..." Saturday, very aptly named!)


----------



## Audio Addict

doctorjazz said:


> OK, Regen came today, connected to my PC system...which means, PC to Regen>Vaunix Lab Brick>Geek Out Special Edition>HE-1000 (Norne cables). Impressions on first few minutes of listening: closer perspective, great detail, space, think the bass is a bit softened, though. (listening to Hi Rez American Beauty and Workingman's Dead, the Grateful Dead, of course, through PonoPlayer (JRiver20). Very Early on, though, can change my mind/impressions, may change with break in, may change with the phase of the moon or the tides, a bottle of beer would likely change things a bit (someone brought me a craft beer called "Sweet Baby Jesus..." Saturday, very aptly named!)


 
  
 Why before the Vaunix versus after?  I thought it was best right next to the DAC?


----------



## elviscaprice

doctorjazz said:


> OK, Regen came today, connected to my PC system...which means, PC to Regen>Vaunix Lab Brick>Geek Out Special Edition>HE-1000 (Norne cables). Impressions on first few minutes of listening: closer perspective, great detail, space, think the bass is a bit softened, though. (listening to Hi Rez American Beauty and Workingman's Dead, the Grateful Dead, of course, through PonoPlayer (JRiver20). Very Early on, though, can change my mind/impressions, may change with break in, may change with the phase of the moon or the tides, a bottle of beer would likely change things a bit (someone brought me a craft beer called "Sweet Baby Jesus..." Saturday, very aptly named!)


 
  
 Yeah, your missing a big function of the Regen by not placing it next to the DAC and using an adapter to the Geek Out.  The Regen corrects the impedance in the USB stream, thus the shorter the run from the Regen to the DAC, the better you maintain that impedance.  Also the Regen gives a clean 5V power if needed for the Geek Out.  I would pull the Vaunix Lab Brick out of the chain and try it out with just the Regen.  Then try the Vaunix before the Regen to see if there is any difference.


----------



## Superdad

doctorjazz said:


> OK, Regen came today, connected to my PC system...which means, PC to Regen>Vaunix Lab Brick>Geek Out Special Edition>HE-1000 (Norne cables). Impressions on first few minutes of listening: closer perspective, great detail, space, think the bass is a bit softened, though. (listening to Hi Rez American Beauty and Workingman's Dead, the Grateful Dead, of course, through PonoPlayer (JRiver20). Very Early on, though, can change my mind/impressions, may change with break in, may change with the phase of the moon or the tides, a bottle of beer would likely change things a bit (someone brought me a craft beer called "Sweet Baby Jesus..." Saturday, very aptly named!)


 

 Hi Doc:
  
 Thanks for reporting your early impressions of the REGEN in your system.  (Terrific Dead album choices BTW.)
  
 Keep in mind that a lot of people say it needs 10-20 hours of "break-in" before it "smooths out."  Me?  I only hear a big change after about 45 minutes--once the clock and hub chip really warm up.
  
 Importantly though, I feel strongly that you have the REGEN at the wrong place in the chain.  I should come AFTER your Vaunix hub, and feed your G.O. DAC directly.  
 The way you have it, you are significantly reducing the positive effect of the device doing its "REGEN thing" which is to provide the most optimum impedance match, and to produce maximum signal integrity for input to your DAC.
  
 USB signal integrity is not a marketing term, it is the rise/fall times of the signal edges, amplitude of the signal, noise sitting on top of the signal and jitter of the edges.  Much (but not all) of it can been seen when looking at an eye pattern test (Google it).
  
 What better SI does for the DAC is to allow the DAC's PHY--and to a lesser extend its MAC (USB protocol engine)--to work less hard to decode the data, thus generating less packet- and ground-plane noise of their own (which is pernicious and IS what gets to the master clock and DAC despite isolation).  
 Please check our shortened "white paper" at the beginning of the AudioStream review (http://www.audiostream.com/content/uptone-audio-usb-regen).
  
 The REGEN does this by using arguably the best 1A regulator on the market (TPS7A4700), a low jitter Crystek clock, and chosen USB2.0 hub chip (that has less modern but superfluous do-everything crap), all surrounded by a power network representing some fresh thinking by John Swenson--what he calls "hierarchy of charge."  And the whole thing is done on a 4-layer board to achieve total impedance control.
  
 The result of that effort is a near perfect signal just millimeters away from the REGEN's output jack.  You want that as close to your DACs input jack as you can!
  
 Perhaps you are using the Vaunix after the DAC because you want its 1A capable VBUS output for your G.O. headphone amp.  It is true that the REGEN ignores pin-1 5V coming in on the USB cable--it generates its own VERY clean 5VBUS with a second of the pricey TPS regs.  Bus-powered USB (certified) devices--even headphone amps--are not allowed to require more than 500mA, but the REGEN can output close to 1 amp for the 5VBUS as well.
 (Though if one were drawing that much illegal VBUS power I'd advise staying with our stock 7.5VSMPS or something 8V or under; 8Vin means a 3V drop to 5V and at 1A is 3 watts to dissipate off that TPS reg--kind of max in that board in a sealed enclosure).
  
 Anyway, I can guarantee that your Vaunix is not delivering the ideal signal to your DAC and it should sound better with the Geek Out plugged into the REGEN.  I'd even venture that the REGEN delivers better VBUS power for the DAC than your Vaunix hub (or most any other VBUS power injectors).
  
 Let us know what you hear.  And anyone is welcome to ask me further questions about the device.  Most days are pretty packed with getting hundreds of these things ready to go out the door to everyone (we should be fully caught up and shipping same-week by mid-September) , but I like to take breaks and I subscribe to this thread (though I hang out mostly at computeraudiophile.com.
  
 BTW, since you mentioned Geek Out, I do use a Geek Pulse (in addition to my reference custom NOS PCM1704K fed 24/384Khz from HQ Player).  The Pulse (when it works, I need to send mine back for board replacement) sounds terrific when powered by a great LPS, fed at 384 or DSD128, and with a REGEN in its rear.  Quite engaging.
  
 Regards,
  
 Alex C.
 UpTone Audio LLC


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, just got home, my town (Westfield, NJ) has a nice outdoor jazz series once a week during the summer. Generally the players are good, but not quite the highest rung of players, but sometimes a player or group slips in that could play a top Manhattan club...sometimes they have played them, and recorded (and I have the cds). Heard one of those tonight, in a Coltrane bag, drifted into a bit of free jazz (which gets my wife crazy, not in a good way, but I digress from my digression). Way fun, and don't have to sweat how live it sounds, does it image, etc.
I hooked up the Regen the way I did because I couldn't figure out how to connect it and the Vaunix with the cables I had, and assumed the Vaunix should stay in the chain. But, there really is no reason I need the Vaunix here. I'll try without it, report back.


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, so I disconnected the Vaunix. The output of the Regen is USB, the connection to the Geek Out Special Edition needs to be female USB. I found a male to female USB cable to connect the Regen directly to the GO SE. Nothing. The computer doesn't see the GO, tells me no device is connected when I check to adjust volume. PonoPlayer (JRiver20) won't play. I'll try rebooting the computer, helps sometimes when I have no clue what to do (I knew there was a reason I didn't do this first). Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks


----------



## doctorjazz

And, did reboot, opened PonoPlayer and the LH app (which adjusts the volume for the Geek Out in my system...crummy system imo, but haven't been able to get it adjusted to work otherwise). Still not recognizing my Geek Out. When I open the LH app, I should see the GO and get sliders to adjust volume. It's telling me no device connected. OK, don't want to go back to the "wrong" set up, as I had it before, but at least that one worked (not sure I liked it better than the GO straight from the Vaunix, but, as discussed, I'm losing some of the Regen benefits that way). So, any help would be appreciated...the Regen is cute, but no use if I can't get it to connect. Thanks.


----------



## doctorjazz

Me again...sorry about the commotion, must just have a bad male/female cable, went back to the Audioquest Dragontail, all is well. I'll leave it to break in some until I do more posting (think I've used up my quota for at least the day  ). Have to say Phil Lesh is back...one thing that shouldn't happen in a Grateful Dead track is soft bass, I think Lesh had maybe more to do with the overall sound than anyone else (I know, I love Jerry, but HE can be IMITATED. Lesh, not so easy, imo...)
Anyway, just going to enjoy the sounds for a bit, more later...


----------



## mtruong34

Doctorjazz, shouldn't the GO SE USB A male connect directly to the Regen USB A female slot?


----------



## doctorjazz

mtruong34 said:


> Doctorjazz, shouldn't the GO SE USB A male connect directly to the Regen USB A female slot?




Yup...feeling kinda' foolish, don't need the fakakta cable, 1 less connection, just took it out. Y'know, this rig sounds pretty nice... 

(do better with black slabs of vinyl, record cleaning machines, spinning platters...)
(you don't really believe 0's and 1's can make music, do you?)


----------



## Audio Addict

doctorjazz said:


> Yup...feeling kinda' foolish, don't need the fakakta cable, 1 less connection, just took it out. Y'know, this rig sounds pretty nice...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The big questions is how does it compare with the REGEN in and the Vaunix out?  Mine isn't shipping until September.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'm listening to it a bit, like to give it time to burn in (or "brain Burn In", as some believe). Think it gives an analog kind of body to things from my initial listening (still not sure the bass isn't a bit softened, but certainly not like when I had it in before the Vaunix, and the overall sound seems fleshed out, natural...it's a bit of a pain evaluating, as the GO SE is really temperamental, hesitant to disconnect and reconnect the Regen to really compare, because that sometimes makes PonoPlayer (JRiver20) crash, often to the point of rebooting my computer. So I'm just digging it for now, holding off on the audiophile A-B comparo shtick, though I'll need to get to it soon).


----------



## Jerryfan

doctorjazz said:


> I'm listening to it a bit, like to give it time to burn in (or "brain Burn In", as some believe). Think it gives an analog kind of body to things from my initial listening (still not sure the bass isn't a bit softened, but certainly not like when I had it in before the Vaunix, and the overall sound seems fleshed out, natural...it's a bit of a pain evaluating, as the GO SE is really temperamental, hesitant to disconnect and reconnect the Regen to really compare, because that sometimes makes PonoPlayer (JRiver20) crash, often to the point of rebooting my computer. So I'm just digging it for now, holding off on the audiophile A-B comparo shtick, though I'll need to get to it soon).


I'm feeling the exact same way. I will run it for a few days and take it out. Everything is more natural and a more relaxed sound. I'm liking it but the bass seems softer. I look forward to the uptone power doo-dad. I've read in lots of threads that this "USB messiah" needs 3 days do so its magic...pun intended.


----------



## doctorjazz

If I remember correctly, there is another power add on coming from Uptown, not as expensive as the LPS, correct? Interesting. you're finding the same things all round. Something like a beefed up power supply could be the ticket for issues like that.



jerryfan said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I'm listening to it a bit, like to give it time to burn in (or "brain Burn In", as some believe). Think it gives an analog kind of body to things from my initial listening (still not sure the bass isn't a bit softened, but certainly not like when I had it in before the Vaunix, and the overall sound seems fleshed out, natural...it's a bit of a pain evaluating, as the GO SE is really temperamental, hesitant to disconnect and reconnect the Regen to really compare, because that sometimes makes PonoPlayer (JRiver20) crash, often to the point of rebooting my computer. So I'm just digging it for now, holding off on the audiophile A-B comparo shtick, though I'll need to get to it soon).
> ...


----------



## Jerryfan

doctorjazz said:


> If I remember correctly, there is another power add on coming from Uptown, not as expensive as the LPS, correct? Interesting. you're finding the same things all round.
> 
> 
> 
> Something like a beefed up power supply could be the ticket for issues like that.




Yes in 90 days a new power supply.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'm tempted to go for the LPS (not now, spent out...), as the Uptown version has the 2 outputs that can be adjusted for different voltage needs, and I'd like to have LPS for my MicroZOTL2 amp as well (LH Labs makes a 4 output LPS, but the output is fixed, and high, if I remember correctly). Need to get around to selling stuff one of these days (but, been saying that for months now...)


----------



## doctorjazz

Put my HE-1000's on, with Regem/GO SE, read what we both wrote in description of the sound of the Regen, it occurs to me, similar to the way folks describe tube sound...


----------



## elviscaprice

Just to keep it in perspective, the Regen doesn't add any sound or color it.  It only corrects the USB stream to make it easier for the DAC to correctly convert what was already there.  See previous Superdad explanation.
 I'm not a fan of any device that is going to color my music, such as a tube amp.  I want it clean, detailed and concise.  Let the DAC do it's thing, which is to create an analog output (which the Hugo does a fine job of with a clean stream) and don't color it afterwards at the expense of detail.


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, so I added MicroZOTL2 to the chain (PC/PonoPlayer/Regen/Geek Out Special Edition/MicroZOTL2/HE-1000 using Norne Zoetic cable...man, think it's there. Listening to Fountains of Wayne, Utopia Parkway album, man, this set up ROCKS!!!!!


----------



## doctorjazz

Some further (still early) impressions...great sounding, organic, analog roundness to notes/voices, MicroZOTL2 adds to the great sound but I still hear that softening in the bass (have to go back and forth, but it's such a pain to do). Its not that there is less bass, or it doesn't go down as low, it is just the leading edge of the bass (transient) that is there is softened some, to my ears in the early going.


----------



## 514077

Not trying to argue, but, I noticed clear bass with a little more attack.  Drums feel snappier with faster innitial attack.  The highs are less distorted and much more pleasant to hear.  And I'm sure it is the Regen cleaning up a fare amount of crap.  Now, I really enjoy my Xs, these days: uh....unless I said that before.


----------



## doctorjazz

Could be, I do feel it's more enjoyable to hear, more open, but I felt the transient snap of the bass is slightly down (not enough to be bothersome, but noticeable to me). May be differences in gear we're working with, may be that I'm FOS...


----------



## 514077

doctorjazz said:


> Could be, I do feel it's more enjoyable to hear, more open, but I felt the transient snap of the bass is slightly down (not enough to be bothersome, but noticeable to me). May be differences in gear we're working with, may be that I'm FOS...


 

 True.  Maybe I'm more enamored with the clearer tone of the bass I've heard, or maybe it's the midbass making the notes more in tune and ... just there, for lack of an acurate word. 
 My only problem with the Regen is the B-type connections.  My Hugo is a micro connection and I can't find the adapters to put the R right behind the DAC.
 Hey Uptone,  do you guys sell any of them?
 Thanks.


----------



## doctorjazz

I think my bass concerns (the bassest  ) are fading as I get used to the sig...listening to Fountains Of Wayne, "Denise", man, this combo sounds FABULOUS!


----------



## 514077

doctorjazz said:


> I think my bass concerns (the bassest
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 One more thing: I used to like my X5I in the coax of the DAC better than USB.  I was A/B-ing a song with co-ax and the Regen-infested USB, and I liked the USB more.  It was livelier, taller and crisper than the co-ax.  From Fountains... to jazz live: you must have quite an eclectic taste.
 Looking forward to reading more of your oppinions.


----------



## Superdad

uelong said:


> True.  Maybe I'm more enamored with the clearer tone of the bass I've heard, or maybe it's the midbass making the notes more in tune and ... just there, for lack of an acurate word.
> My only problem with the Regen is the B-type connections.  My Hugo is a micro connection and I can't find the adapters to put the R right behind the DAC.
> Hey Uptone,  do you guys sell any of them?
> Thanks.


 
  
 We don't sell them, but you can pick them up on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TAM0MZW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_4&smid=A2IME0Z5O2LH6Y


----------



## Music Path

jtwrace said:


> haha.  Yes, this hobby (like my others) tends to take my money.


 
 True Story !


----------



## Music Path

jerryfan said:


> I'm feeling the exact same way. I will run it for a few days and take it out. Everything is more natural and a more relaxed sound. I'm liking it but the bass seems softer. I look forward to the uptone power doo-dad. I've read in lots of threads that this "USB messiah" needs 3 days do so its magic...pun intended.


 
 The Bass is softer in which way, more layared bass or less impact? From i heard it improves bass quality.
 The Bass softening thing remebers me tube bass.


----------



## doctorjazz

"bass softening" was also my impression...it's a very early impression, certainly subject to change. I'm actually loving my current set up (PC/JRIVER/Regen/Geek Out Special Edition/MicroZOTL2/Norne Zoetic cable/HE-1000). I'd say it was an end game set up if I didn't have a bunch of stuff on order still to come 
As for the bass, it is full, rich, textured...what I'm not hearing its the transient attack, the snap (not really "not hearing" it, but think it's a bit less than I'd expect or am used to). Actually, I'm starting to wonder if that sharp leading edge isn't really just some sort of recording or playback artifact, something not necessarily there in real life, at least not all the time (went to hear some outdoor jazz last night, Montclair Jazz Festival. Heard Paquito D'Rivera and the Christian McBride Big Band. The bass player for Paquito was fine, but didn't note that same "leading edge". McBride, on the other hand, has an incredibly sharp attack, that edge really slaps you upside your head! (great show, btw, hearing a lot of great music so far this summer...). Anyway, that is what I'm sorting out...still haven't taken the Regen out of the system to A-B, just enjoying my limited listening time with it in too much to take the time to do it. Be vacationing in a week, maybe I'll have some time for that sort of stuff (and the reviews I'm behind...)


----------



## vhsownsbeta

doctorjazz said:


> Anyway, that is what I'm sorting out...still haven't taken the Regen out of the system to A-B, just enjoying my limited listening time with it in tip much to take the time to do it. Be vacationing in a week, maybe I'll have sine time for that sort of stuff (and the reviews I'm behind...)




Regen is interesting in that you will actually notice what it does more when you take it out, by virtue that it isn't doing it anymore!


----------



## Angular Mo

zilch0md said:


> My latest "transportable" rig:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## 514077

superdad said:


> uelong said:
> 
> 
> > True.  Maybe I'm more enamored with the clearer tone of the bass I've heard, or maybe it's the midbass making the notes more in tune and ... just there, for lack of an acurate word.
> ...


 

 Thanks but I'm Canadian.  I'll have to try Drew at Moon.  Maybe he can come up with something.


----------



## seeteeyou

http://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-GCUSBAMBM-Micro-Cable-Adapter/dp/B001K9BEJ6
  
 Ships from and sold by Amazon.ca.


----------



## 514077

seeteeyou said:


> http://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-GCUSBAMBM-Micro-Cable-Adapter/dp/B001K9BEJ6
> 
> Ships from and sold by Amazon.ca.


 

 Thanks!  Just ordered one.
 Much appriciated.


----------



## BaTou069

doctorjazz said:


> "bass softening" was also my impression...it's a very early impression, certainly subject to change. I'm actually loving my current set up (PC/JRIVER/Regen/Geek Out Special Edition/MicroZOTL2/Norne Zoetic cable/HE-1000). I'd say it was an end game set up if I didn't have a bunch of stuff on order still to come
> As for the bass, it is full, rich, textured...what I'm not hearing its the transient attack, the snap (not really "not hearing" it, but think it's a bit less than I'd expect or am used to). Actually, I'm starting to wonder if that sharp leading edge isn't really just some sort of recording or playback artifact, something not necessarily there in real life, at least not all the time (went to hear some outdoor jazz last night, Montclair Jazz Festival. Heard Paquito D'Rivera and the Christian McBride Big Band. The bass player for Paquito was fine, but didn't note that same "leading edge". McBride, on the other hand, has an incredibly sharp attack, that edge really slaps you upside your head! (great show, btw, hearing a lot of great music so far this summer...). Anyway, that is what I'm sorting out...still haven't taken the Regen out of the system to A-B, just enjoying my limited listening time with it in too much to take the time to do it. Be vacationing in a week, maybe I'll have some time for that sort of stuff (and the reviews I'm behind...)


 
  
 Regarding the geek out, can you plug the geek out directly into the Regen without the Adapter?


----------



## doctorjazz

I do have it plugged directly, after playing with cables and not seeing that it just goes right in. Haven't listened in a few days (stupid work and family getting in the way  ), try to get back to it next few days. Great combo, imo! Just reporting how I heard it, but doesn't mean I am disconnecting any time soon.


----------



## Audio Addict

Did anyone read this:
  
 http://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/bugs-uptones-and-regens/
  
 http://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/only-so-much-time/


----------



## doctorjazz

Interesting reading.


----------



## 514077

You just sent me on a journey starting from USB to Cage's 639-year organ piece.  ... Where was I/
 Thanks.


----------



## tgx78

http://www.audiostream.com/content/usb-accessory-roundup-uptone-audio-usb-regen-audioquest-jitterbug-schiit-wyrd#qWMMClhycl852p1j.97


----------



## Music Path

tgx78 said:


> http://www.audiostream.com/content/usb-accessory-roundup-uptone-audio-usb-regen-audioquest-jitterbug-schiit-wyrd#qWMMClhycl852p1j.97




Great review.


----------



## doctorjazz

Good article!


----------



## BaTou069

So the article says that the best combo (for him) 1 JB in an unused port, and one JB in line with the REGEN direct to the DAC?
 Good, thats exactly what I ordered


----------



## tgx78

Mine should arrive soon (2 jitterbug) to try on my regen. I will report my findings. I have very revealing system so I should be able to know the impact on SQ right away.


----------



## Franatic

I just added the Jitterbug to my Regen/ idsd line. I think those of you waiting for this little bargain from AudioQuest are going to be pleasantly surprised by the enhancement it gives. To be honest. I was not expecting much.
  
 So what did I get for $49? Improvement in clarity, reduced stress and more musicality that comes from yet more timing refinement and noise reduction.
  
 My output is not on the usb bus as it is comes from a PPA usb card, but I might want to add a 2nd Jitterbug to the other port. I can say it is a highly welcome addition to the Regen usb line.
  
 I'm looking forward to getting the sbooster ultra and adding it to the HDPlex 8.5 volt supply line for the Regen. All this usb work is making the overachieving little micro idsd perform like a high end dac.......wow!
  
 Dusty Springfield is still alive and well in the 192 khz "Dusty in Memphis" recording. Amazing natural vocals.
  
 Kudos to AudioQuest on the Jitterbug!


----------



## Hi Rez

franatic said:


> I just added the Jitterbug to my Regen/ idsd line. I think those of you waiting for this little bargain from AudioQuest are going to be pleasantly surprised by the enhancement it gives. To be honest. I was not expecting much.
> 
> So what did I get for $49? Improvement in clarity, reduced stress and more musicality that comes from yet more timing refinement and noise reduction.
> 
> I'm looking forward to getting the sbooster ultra and adding it to the HDPlex 8.5 volt supply line for the Regen. All this usb work is making the overachieving little micro idsd perform like a high end dac.......wow!


 
 +1
  
 Received mine yesterday and was pleased with the results.  Adding the Regen made a larger improvement than the Jitterbugs, but I am not complaining about the results of adding the Jitterbugs either.
  
 Won't disagree that your micro idsd could be performing like a high end dac - a high end dac without Regen and Jitterbugs that is.  A high end dac with Regen and Jitterbugs just might be a different story.


----------



## Franatic

hi rez said:


> +1
> 
> Received mine yesterday and was pleased with the results.  Adding the Regen made a larger improvement than the Jitterbugs, but I am not complaining about the results of adding the Jitterbugs either.
> 
> Won't disagree that your micro idsd could be performing like a high end dac - a high end dac without Regen and Jitterbugs that is.  A high end dad with Regen and Jitterbugs just might be a different story.


 
 +1
 I am waiting for the idsd pro, but all this refinement to the usb line is making the wait very interesting.....Can't wait to add the pro to this transport.


----------



## Hi Rez

Couldn't agree more.  I am very curious to hear how good things might get if they really figure this USB stuff out.  
  
 The Regen way surpassed my expectations - to the point that, given a budget for a dac, instead of spending the entire budget on the dac, I would now recommend purchasing a Regen and using the remaining budget on the dac.


----------



## semeniub

hi rez said:


> Couldn't agree more.  I am very curious to hear how good things might get if they really figure this USB stuff out.
> 
> The Regen way surpassed my expectations - to the point that, given a budget for a dac, instead of spending the entire budget on the dac, I would now recommend purchasing a Regen and using the remaining budget on the dac.


 

 Absolutely - why would you want to spend a lot of money on a DAC with sub-optimal USB implementation, only to have to buy a REGEN or similar anyways?


----------



## Chikolad

So my REGEN arrived on Thursday and I had a couple of days to listen to it and gather impressions. However, about 2 days prior to that I upgraded my desktop from Windows 7 to Windows 10, and didn't have much time to get used to the sonic differences Win10 brought, and it did.
 So I'm having a hard time isolating the differences the REGEN made on its own, but I will try anyway. 
 I have a Supra USB cable (which I bought a while ago in anticipation for the REGEN) connected to the REGEN which is then connected to a lowly Schiit Modi, going to a Burson Soloist and into my LCD3-Fs.
 The first impression I got the minute I plugged the REGEN and hit the play button - smooooooth and *detailed*! It's a cliche, but I heard new details in tracks I have known for 20 years. And the smoothness - it's like everything is very effortless now. And more polite. In fact, a little bit of "oomph" is lost in some cases and I find myself wanting to turn the volume up to make things more 'in my face' again. Some of the differences in smoothness can also be attributed to to Windows10 upgrade, so take this with a grain of salt.
 Some people mentioned they have felt a decrease in bass quantity. I do feel a little bit of that, and the overall sound is a tiny bit leaner on my setup. That is if I'm not imagining things. One thing's for sure - there's definitely no _increase_ in bass.
 I haven't noticed any major changes in soundstage, but the imaging and layering might have improved a bit, as expected when the sound is more detailed. Also, ambient sound are heard more easily, like fading reverb, which adds to sound image.
 It's important to mention that the Modi gets its power from the USB, so in my case I'm now getting lower noise power than what I had, in addition to a cleaner USB signal. I'm guessing that for DACs with external power the differences might not be as prominent.
  
 I'm going to give it a week to get used to the new sound and then take the REGEN out and compare, to better understand what it adds.
  
 Overall, I think this is an amazing little product, and I recommend it for anyone using USB audio. Thank you Alex (Superdad) and John!
 Happy listening


----------



## preproman

franatic said:


> I just added the Jitterbug to my Regen/ idsd line. I think those of you waiting for this little bargain from AudioQuest are going to be pleasantly surprised by the enhancement it gives. To be honest. I was not expecting much.
> 
> So what did I get for $49? Improvement in clarity, reduced stress and more musicality that comes from yet more timing refinement and noise reduction.
> 
> ...


 

 You got any pictures of that setup?  
  
 At some point it will become too many things in the single path - won't it?


----------



## Franatic

preproman said:


> You got any pictures of that setup?
> 
> At some point it will become too many things in the single path - won't it?


 
 It's a normal Regen setup on the micro, the Jitterbug gets added back on the PPA V4 usb card output port of the Audio pc.
  
 When does it become too much...............I guess when the sound quality degrades. The Jitterbug was a definite plus.


----------



## yellowblue

Added a cheap China LPS (you can get it on EBay for 70$) with 9V to my Regen. I am surprised how much better the imaging became. Definately worth the invest.
Now I am waiting for the SBooster ultra.


----------



## mscott58

Just talked about this on the Geek Pulse thread as well, but I was finally able to plug the Regen into my Geek Pulse X Infinity, powering the Regen using the LPS4 (which runs 12V, but since the Infinity does not pull power from the USB line it should be okay - might just get a bit hot. In fact I'm using an LHL 10G split USB cable). 
  
 Only a short period of time with the system in this configuration but I like what I'm hearing. Overall more resolution and detail and what appears to be a blacker background and more "space" between the notes and instruments. Regen = Extra Resolution in my book. More to write about it later, but just wanted to say "well done" to the Uptone crew. 
  
 Cheers
  
 PS - If Uptone brought a bag of Regens to RMAF/CanJam this October I'm sure they could sell a ton...


----------



## mscott58

mscott58 said:


> Just talked about this on the Geek Pulse thread as well, but I was finally able to plug the Regen into my Geek Pulse X Infinity, powering the Regen using the LPS4 (which runs 12V, but since the Infinity does not pull power from the USB line it should be okay - might just get a bit hot. In fact I'm using an LHL 10G split USB cable).
> 
> Only a short period of time with the system in this configuration but I like what I'm hearing. Overall more resolution and detail and what appears to be a blacker background and more "space" between the notes and instruments. Regen = Extra Resolution in my book. More to write about it later, but just wanted to say "well done" to the Uptone crew.
> 
> ...


 
 Has anyone else had issues with the Regen and the included adapter blocking any ports on their DAC? For example if you use the Regen with the Geek Pulse Infinity (or any X variant) using the USB A to USB B adapter Uptone includes it ends up blocking the XLR outputs.
  
 I will have to figure a workaround for this when I get my Cavalli Liquid Carbon and will need the utilize the Infinity's XLR plugs.
  
 Maybe a different adapter/cable to attach the Regen to the Infinity? Want to try to keep anythings as short as possible per Uptone's suggestion. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## 514077

chikolad said:


> So my REGEN arrived on Thursday and I had a couple of days to listen to it and gather impressions. However, about 2 days prior to that I upgraded my desktop from Windows 7 to Windows 10, and didn't have much time to get used to the sonic differences Win10 brought, and it did.
> So I'm having a hard time isolating the differences the REGEN made on its own, but I will try anyway.
> I have a Supra USB cable (which I bought a while ago in anticipation for the REGEN) connected to the REGEN which is then connected to a lowly Schiit Modi, going to a Burson Soloist and into my LCD3-Fs.
> The first impression I got the minute I plugged the REGEN and hit the play button - smooooooth and *detailed*! It's a cliche, but I heard new details in tracks I have known for 20 years. And the smoothness - it's like everything is very effortless now. And more polite. In fact, a little bit of "oomph" is lost in some cases and I find myself wanting to turn the volume up to make things more 'in my face' again. Some of the differences in smoothness can also be attributed to to Windows10 upgrade, so take this with a grain of salt.
> ...


 

 Could you elaborate what Windows 10 adds over 7?


----------



## Chikolad

uelong said:


> Could you elaborate what Windows 10 adds over 7?


 
  
 Well, the sense I got was of better clarity mainly. I also think the sense of the sound being a little leaner came from the windows 10 upgrade (by the way, by now I'm not feeling the sound is lean at all. I guess it's brain burn in). Like I said, I didn't get much time with it before adding the REGEN.
 It should also be noted that I use Fidelizer free and also used it in Win 7, so my impressions are also affected by whatever that does to the sound.


----------



## elviscaprice

uelong said:


> Could you elaborate what Windows 10 adds over 7?


 
  
 I find Windows 10 a big improvement over 7, even before I optimized Windows 10,   I use JRiver ASIO, no latency, stream from memory, volume off, DSP off. 
 Windows 10 is just better SQ, as if there is better timing, less veil over the music. 
 But if you disable many of Windows 10 services and bloat, thus optimize, it's also a huge improvement to SQ.  Add the Regen into the mix and you have some of the best sound I have ever heard.  I don't use any other software other than the OS and JRiver.  I think if you get Windows 10 optimized, you don't need any of those other software additions, which basically are doing just that for you, optimizing the OS.
 Let your streamer do it's thing and get out of the way.


----------



## Chikolad

By the way, one of the excellent benefits of the REGEN in my system is that I find it considerably easier now to listen to albums with relatively low DR, i.e. typical modern recordings. Other than everything being a little more relaxed and balanced, I'm guessing there's also a little improvement in dynamics.
I'm really digging this little thing!

And @elviscaprice, love your avatar  "Keep Me in the Dark" from the 2010 remaster came on shuffle last night and with the REGEN it was the best I have ever heard this track!


----------



## porridgecup

The Windows 10 thing confuses me. Assuming you're playing through a dedicated external hardware DAC, with 100% OS/application volume, why should the OS make a difference? Especially if you're using ASIO.
  
 Has anyone else reported similar differences between Windows versions?
  
 The thought that the OS may be fundamentally affecting sound quality is very concerning to me.


----------



## elviscaprice

porridgecup said:


> The Windows 10 thing confuses me. Assuming you're playing through a dedicated external hardware DAC, with 100% OS/application volume, why should the OS make a difference? Especially if you're using ASIO.
> 
> Has anyone else reported similar differences between Windows versions?
> 
> The thought that the OS may be fundamentally affecting sound quality is very concerning to me.


 
   Many have reported a difference, many are in denial without ever doing their own listening test.  It's all controversial because we have yet to measure that energy that ends up feeding into the DAC and playing havoc with it's timing conversion.
  
 That OS which is operating your PC, is a body of electrical current running thru your MOBO, operating everything from fans to CPU to memory.  All drawing different amounts of power as needed.  Let alone heat created if working harder and that creating energy.  Think of your entire PC system as one big conduit.  The easier it has to work, optimized windows 10 running bare essentials, the less energy being used and heat created.  I'm not the best at explaining this, but energy gets into the data stream being fed to your external DAC.  The Regen helps to regenerate that signal energy somewhat cleanly, but not all.  What does get thru to your DAC plays havoc with it's converters to analog.  Thus lowering the SQ we hear. I'm sure if you read Superdad's explanation as far as the Regen is concerned he does a much better job of explaining it all as far as the Regen is concerned.
 Once you hear the difference, you can rest assured it's there.  Bits are bits but electricity is the damnation.


----------



## porridgecup

elviscaprice said:


> Many have reported a difference, many are in denial without ever doing their own listening test.  It's all controversial because we have yet to measure that energy that ends up feeding into the DAC and playing havoc with it's timing conversion.
> 
> That OS which is operating your PC, is a body of electrical current running thru your MOBO, operating everything from fans to CPU to memory.  All drawing different amounts of power as needed.  Let alone heat created if working harder and that creating energy.  Think of your entire PC system as one big conduit.  The easier it has to work, optimized windows 10 running bare essentials, the less energy being used and heat created.  I'm not the best at explaining this, but energy gets into the data stream being fed to your external DAC.  The Regen helps to regenerate that signal energy somewhat cleanly, but not all.  What does get thru to your DAC plays havoc with it's converters to analog.  Thus lowering the SQ we hear. I'm sure if you read Superdad's explanation as far as the Regen is concerned he does a much better job of explaining it all as far as the Regen is concerned.
> Once you hear the difference, you can rest assured it's there.  Bits are bits but electricity is the damnation.


 
  
 It is true that if less resources are being consumed, the CPU and GPU fans might spin down and power usage will be reduced, which could possibly decrease the amount of noise, but there's absolutely no guarantee an OS upgrade alone would cause less resource taxation. I don't think Windows 10 just rendering a desktop and browser is going to be so much more CPU- or memory-efficient than Windows 8 that it would cause significant power reduction.
  
 If Windows 10 really is creating an audible difference, it might be for another reason. Some difference in the handling of USB output, for example.


----------



## Beolab

Im in a search of a Gold or Silver plated High Grade USB Type A male to Micro A male Adapter btw my Regen and Chord Hugo. 

I have just find the standard version from DeLock, but i just wounder if someone know a site where they sell a little better high quality USB adapters?


----------



## seeteeyou

AFAIK they're all cheap adapters according to this post below
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index64.html#post437417
  


> That's about right. Cut 'em open and you won't be inspired. They are all made by taking two connectors with solder pin/troughs, soldering four 28awg wires of perhaps 25mm length between them--and then placing both connectors into a machine (with the wires king of looped/pushed together) and a plastic injection machine molds some VERY hard milky white stuff around the wires and the end of the connectors. Only after that does the outer rubbery plastic grip get molded around that. In fact, cutting off the outer grip of several (before hacking into the hard plastic to pull out and check the wires) revealed that adapters which look different (like in the above picture) were actually made the same inside with the same type of machine.
> 
> One interesting fact is that these adaptors do not connect the shield/shells of the two sides (put a continuity meter on one and you will see). It does not matter since virtually every device that you plug one into has pin 4 ground common to the shield/shell, so once you plug it in you are again connecting to the USB cable's shield.


 
  
  
 As a result, only DIY ones with much better USB connectors might fit the bill
  
 http://www.aloaudio.com/usb-type-a-connector
 http://www.aloaudio.com/usb-type-b-connector
 http://www.atl-newcablestudio.com/USB01.html
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=19303626357
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=21607739288
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=37293321089
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=44165078581
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=44476063568
 http://www.partsconnexion.com/connectors_usb_connex.html
 http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=68
 http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/norne-audio-usb-plug-solder-diy-gold-plated-15u-type-a-b-copper-alloy-replacement-diy-usb
  
 Supposedly the ones from ATL are the best and most expensive, the others are much cheaper as listed above.


----------



## zilch0md

Hi Jon L,
  
 Quote:


jon l said:


> Even the Audiostream review comments that a $799 linear PS made only "subtle" improvements over the stock SMPS.  I had similar experience trying linear supply I already had compared to stock.  However, this Li battery DIY contraption made the most improvement in SQ for me and probably cost like $15, all from eBay
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  

  
 My 9V-capable, 10,000 mAh Anker Astro LiPo pack has (for some reason) started exhibiting a "feature" that others have found with their Anker packs:  If it doesn't detect sufficient current draw, it shuts off automatically.  This is a battery-saving feature that has become a problem.
  
 It wasn't doing this with my USB Regen previously, but it's doing it now - religiously shutting down about 30 seconds after I start using it. I could add another 9V load in parallel, such as a "grain-of-rice" incandescent bulb, to increase the total load seen by the Anker battery, but that's too Mickey Mouse for my tastes...
  
 So, I've replaced the Anker battery with this low-tech solution:
  

  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HGAL0L0
  
  
 I use it with six of these Eneloop AA NiMH batteries (from my inventory of 30 AA's and 12 AAA's)...
  

  
 http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-BK-3MCCA8BA-Pre-Charged-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B00JHKSN5I
  
  
 ... for which I've long had this excellent Powerex MH-C9000 charger (that can recondition and/or charge each cell, independently):
  
   
  
  
 http://www.amazon.com/PowerEx-MH-C9000-WizardOne-Charger-Analyzer-Batteries/dp/B003DIGKOG
  
 On considering your much smaller, lighter and elegant solution that uses only two 18650 cells, I decided I didn't need to conserve weight and size as much as I wanted to avoid investing in another charger, when I already have a nice setup for AA rechargeables.  
  
 I only spent $5.78 to get the battery holder with pre-attached power cord and connector and I might enjoy a longer play time between battery swaps.
  
 I can attest that the six Eneloop AA's "sound" great powering the USB Regen - every bit as good as my Anker LiPo battery - especially after it shuts itself off!  
  




  
 Mike


----------



## Franatic

I now have finished with my plan to maximize the Regen/micro idsd pairing.
  
 I have added the SBooster Ultra to the 9 volt output of the HD Plex Linear that is powering the Regen. This has lowered the noise floor and increased clarity, imaging and depth. A very good product that I can recommend.
  
 I have replaced the stock Usb A to B adapter with a custom one I had made by Matthew at Forza Audio Works. This gives me confidence in having a seamless connection between the Regen and the micro. I believe I detect even more clarity with this adapter vs supplied stock adapter.
  
 An amazing usb transport has been built with the Regen delivering the goods. I am excited to think what this will sound like feeding the forthcoming idsd pro.


----------



## 514077

seeteeyou said:


> AFAIK they're all cheap adapters according to this post below
> 
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index64.html#post437417
> 
> ...


 

 I had a look at the ATL site.  In a perfect world, there'd be less images and more words to describe the 41 choices on the page.  Still looking for that fictional female micro adapter.
 Oh well, my prob.


----------



## yinyang69

Does anyone have an experience using ifi iPurifier for regen as an adapter?


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, I generally get lazy, don't love A-B'ing all over the place. Had hooked the Regen in to my PC system (JRiver/Regen/Geek Out Special Edition/Norne Zoetic cable/HE-1000. I disconnected the Regen, plugged the GO SE into a Vaunix Lab Brick I had been using before I got the Regen, into the PC. MAN! Immediate difference. Couldn't keep it set up that way, quickly went back to the Regen set up. Listening happily to a newly downloaded hi rez version of Bob Dylan's Highway 64 Revisited.


----------



## quimbo

I just got my Regen today and took out my ifi iPurifier.  Wondering the same thing.
  
 Loving the difference the Regen makes.  Was skeptical as I have a decent setup:
  
 Mapleshade clearlink cable --> Regen --> HRT Music Streamer HD --> Zu Audio Interconnects - Tweak City Gizmo Class D Amplifier - Zu Audio LibTec speaker cables --> Tweak City Audio WAF-1 Mini-Monitors and a Onix Rocket UFW-10 Subwoofer


----------



## yinyang69

Did you try Regen with ifi iPurifier if it makes any difference?


----------



## mscott58

yinyang69 said:


> Did you try Regen with ifi iPurifier if it makes any difference?




I've used the Regen alone with my Pulse Infinity and it has helped. 

Cheers


----------



## quimbo

i had to go into work tonight, will try to find some time tomorrow


----------



## yinyang69

Looking forward to your feedback


----------



## yellowblue

franatic said:


> I now have finished with my plan to maximize the Regen/micro idsd pairing.
> 
> I have added the SBooster Ultra to the 9 volt output of the HD Plex Linear that is powering the Regen. This has lowered the noise floor and increased clarity, imaging and depth. A very good product that I can recommend.
> 
> ...


 
 I have also the SBooster Ultra. It is well worth the investment. I combine it with a chinese Ebay 9V LPS.


----------



## yinyang69

yellowblue said:


> I have also the SBooster Ultra. It is well worth the investment. I combine it with a chinese Ebay 9V LPS.


what are some good eBay LPS would you recommend?


----------



## yellowblue

yinyang69 said:


> what are some good eBay LPS would you recommend?


 
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/141503525422?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## zilch0md

yinyang69 said:


> what are some good eBay LPS would you recommend?


 
  


yellowblue said:


> http://www.ebay.de/itm/141503525422?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 Please note that my USB Regen gets pretty hot when operated at 9V - which is the highest voltage UpTone Audio recommends when the USB Regen is supplying 5V power to a USB-powered DAC.  
  
 If your DAC is not USB-powered, such that the USB Regen is only powering itself, the maximum supply voltage is 12V.
  
 So... * If you intend to use the USB Regen with a USB-powered DAC or DAC/amp, I strongly recommend getting an LPS that can operate closer to 6.5V, instead of 9V.   *Hint:  Ask the seller at that eBay link if he can reduce the output voltage.
  
 See my earlier post, where I measured temperatures with and without a heat sink applied:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/762967/uptone-audio-usb-regen/240#post_11813706
  
 Mike


----------



## hifimiami

+1 this LPS increases dynamics. detail and improves REGEN performance!
  
http://www.ebay.de/itm/141503525422?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## yinyang69

zilch0md said:


> Please note that my USB Regen gets pretty hot when operated at 9V - which is the highest voltage UpTone Audio recommends when the USB Regen is supplying 5V power to a USB-powered DAC.
> 
> If your DAC is not USB-powered, such that the USB Regen is only powering itself, the maximum supply voltage is 12V.
> 
> ...


I have the Schiit gungnir dac. It should be OK with 9v right?


----------



## Beolab

zilch0md said:


> Please note that my USB Regen gets pretty hot when operated at 9V - which is the highest voltage UpTone Audio recommends when the USB Regen is supplying 5V power to a USB-powered DAC.
> 
> If your DAC is not USB-powered, such that the USB Regen is only powering itself, the maximum supply voltage is 12V.
> 
> ...




I also need to know what voltage i need for the power adaptor to the Regen if i connect it to a Chord Hugo ??


----------



## mscott58

beolab said:


> I also need to know what voltage i need for the power adaptor to the Regen if i connect it to a Chord Hugo ??


 
 The Hugo uses it's own power supply, so doesn't draw power from the USB line. This allows the Regen to be supplied with higher voltage. Similarly I use the Regen with my Geek Pulse Infinity (which also doesn't draw USB power) and power the Regen with a spare leg from the LPS4, which is actually 12V. Cheers


----------



## NinjaHamster

mscott58 said:


> The Hugo uses it's own power supply, so doesn't draw power from the USB line. This allows the Regen to be supplied with higher voltage. Similarly I use the Regen with my Geek Pulse Infinity (which also doesn't draw USB power) and power the Regen with a spare leg from the LPS4, which is actually 12V. Cheers




Do you use the 1.2 or .5 12v output?


----------



## Beolab

mscott58 said:


> The Hugo uses it's own power supply, so doesn't draw power from the USB line. This allows the Regen to be supplied with higher voltage. Similarly I use the Regen with my Geek Pulse Infinity (which also doesn't draw USB power) and power the Regen with a spare leg from the LPS4, which is actually 12V. Cheers




Okey so you gain SQ with higher volt like 12 v or whats the benefits, and do Uptone guarantee the quality with 12 volts? 

Do you also know any 12 v linear power plant for the Regen ?


----------



## mscott58

beolab said:


> Okey so you gain SQ with higher volt like 12 v or whats the benefits, and do Uptone guarantee the quality with 12 volts?
> 
> Do you also know any 12 v linear power plant for the Regen ?




To answer the last 2 posts:

1) I use one of the 0.5A taps.
2) The only reason I use the 12V is because I have a world class LPS sitting a few inches from the Regen and that LPS is 12V. 
3) I don't know that 12V has a positive impact on the SQ at all, again for me it's about convenience. 
4) Uptone has said 12V is okay, but ONLY if the DAC doesn't draw power from the USB cable. 

Cheers


----------



## zilch0md

yinyang69 said:


> I have the Schiit gungnir dac. It should be OK with 9v right?


 
  
 Quoting your manufacturer's FAQ page at http://schiit.com/products/gungnir:
  


> How about USB and Android?
> Yes. Many Android devices (4.0 and up) can work with our DACs using a USB On The Go Cable and Audio Player Pro app (a paid app, about $10.) You'll need to apply Audio Tweak 1, and you may have to use an externally powered USB 2.0 hub for some phones or tablets that don't supply enough power *to run the USB input*.


 
  
 In other words, your AC-powered Gungnir relies on an external source for 5V DC power to operate its USB receiver. This means that* the power for the Gungnir's USB input will have to come from the USB Regen* and this, in turn, means that *you do not want to exceed 9V*, because there are two voltage regulator inside the USB Regen, one that supplies 5V power to DACs that need it and another that supplies 3.3V to the USB Regen's own circuits. The higher the supply voltage the hotter these two voltage regulators will get as they convert the excess voltage into heat.
  
*9V is is high as you should go when using a DAC that pulls 5V power from the USB Regen*, and I can tell you that *your Regen will get very warm even at 9V* - hot enough that it really appreciates my use of the heat sink I pictured in the post I referenced above.  
  
*It is possible to supply the USB Regen with as little as 5V, even when the DAC pulls power from the USB Regen* - it will run cooler and thus, the components will last a few more years, perhaps, than they would at 9V - who knows for sure (?), but heat is the enemy of longevity. *The ideal voltage in my mind is something around 6V or 6.5V when using a USB-powered DAC*. 
  
 Given that UpTone Audio will be offering (in October?) an accessory for the USB Regen's included 7.5V SMPS, an accessory that will provide extremely clean, noise-free power to the USB Regen, I would avoid spending a lot of money on a LPS right now, unless you know you'll have some other use for it later.  In the interim, if you just want to make a quick improvement over using the SMPS, I would recommend this, affordable EI-core LPS, which I've had for several years, for use with DACs that will pull power from the Regen, because you can adjust the output voltage yourself by turning an adjustment screw inside.  I've got mine adjusted to 6.5V:   http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-TeraLink-X1-X2-DC8-5V-1A-USB-DC5V-port-external-Linear-Power-Supply-/301694857782
  


beolab said:


> I also need to know what voltage i need for the power adaptor to the Regen if i connect it to a Chord Hugo ??


 
  
  
 As mscot58 has posted, the Hugo is self-powered, so you can feed the USB Regen with as much as 12V, but keep in mind that, the Regen's 3.3V regulator will have to create more heat with the higher voltage. A 5V LPS would allow the Regen to run much cooler than a 12V LPS, even when the DAC is self-powered.   mscott58's use of a 0.5 Amp (500 mA) tap on his 12V LPS4, is fine because the USB Regen itself only draws something like 40 mA, but if he was also trying to power a 500mA USB DAC, that tap might not supply enough current for both the DAC and the Regen itself, in addition to overheating the Regen due to running at 12V.  
  
 Again, *12V is the maximum voltage permissible for the Regen when using a DAC that is self-powered* - no harm will come to the Regen at 12V, according to UpTone Audio, but a lower voltage would allow it to run cooler and thus, last longer.   
  


beolab said:


> Okey so you gain SQ with higher volt like 12 v or whats the benefits, and do Uptone guarantee the quality with 12 volts?
> 
> Do you also know any 12 v linear power plant for the Regen ?


 
  
 A few months ago, there was a brief rally of posts in the USB Regen thread at computeraudiophile about whether or not a higher voltage improves sound quality, but the consensus quickly squelched that notion. The vast majority of users would agree with my interpretation of mscott58's conservative position that running at 12V does not, in and of itself, improve sound quality.  Noisy power is your enemy.
  
 -----
  
*I would again recommend that everyone who doesn't already have an LPS for some other purpose, just use the included 7.5V SMPS, while waiting for the October (?) release of UpTone Audio's new accessory - that promises to provide ultra-clean power to the Regen.  *
  
*For more on the voltage requirements, minimums and maximums, here is the UpTone Audio FAQ page for the USB Regen*:  
  
 http://uptoneaudio.com/pages/usb-regen-questions-and-answers
  
 Mike


----------



## Beolab

Thanks Mike ( @Zilch0md ) for your very informative explanation! 

I will wait and order the upcoming add-on adapter from UpTone later this year. 

Mike: Do you also know how much gain i get with two Regen's used in series against one ? Is it a subtile difference, or do we get even more liquidity to the sound?


----------



## Audio Addict

The September shipments are going out, mine shipped today


----------



## zilch0md

beolab said:


> Thanks Mike ( @Zilch0md ) for your very informative explanation!
> 
> I will wait and order the upcoming add-on adapter from UpTone later this year.
> 
> Mike: Do you also know how much gain i get with two Regen's used in series against one ? Is it a subtile difference, or do we get even more liquidity to the sound?


 
  
 I've not tried stacking two of them myself, but there are well over one hundred people out there who have two USB Regens, and of those who have reported their impressions at computeraudiophile, the consensus seems to be that you will enjoy at least 25% as much of the very same improvements you enjoy with one USB Regen.  So, in a way, the 2nd Regen will cost you four times as much, in terms of bang-for-the-buck.
  
 My take away is that if the impact to your system is really big with the first Regen, second Regen might be easily justifiable, but if your first Regen only has a small impact - for you, personally - then you might not even be able to detect the impact of a second Regen. 
  
 I'm nevertheless convinced, from the majority consensus, that I'll eventually have to try a second USB Regen, because the first Regen was dramatically effective for me - switching it out after a couple of weeks was a big eye-opener.  
  
 But I'm such a tight wad at heart, it seems a shame to spoil the massive bang-for-the-buck factor I'm currently enjoying, having spent only $175 for a single Regen. So, I'm pacing myself.  (As I wait for an Audioquest Jitterbug to arrive!)
  




  
 Mike


----------



## Beolab

Thanks i order one more and connect them before i hear them separately, so then the impact will get so high it could, then to upcoming Uptone add-ons adapters later on
combined with the chord dave. 

Have to sound like good


----------



## yinyang69

zilch0md said:


> Quoting your manufacturer's FAQ page at http://schiit.com/products/gungnir:
> 
> 
> In other words, your AC-powered Gungnir relies on an external source for 5V DC power to operate its USB receiver. This means that* the power for the Gungnir's USB input will have to come from the USB Regen* and this, in turn, means that *you do not want to exceed 9V*, because there are two voltage regulator inside the USB Regen, one that supplies 5V power to DACs that need it and another that supplies 3.3V to the USB Regen's own circuits. The higher the supply voltage the hotter these two voltage regulators will get as they convert the excess voltage into heat.
> ...


 
 How about schiit yggdrasil?


----------



## groovyd

i've noticed 4 regens in series really ups the sound quality


----------



## doctorjazz

Why stop at 4?


----------



## Beolab

This is placebo! 

Why not buy 100 Regenś, then it could speak to you after the burn-in or


----------



## technobear

Anybody remember 'Mana Acoustics' shelving


----------



## zilch0md

groovyd said:


> i've noticed 4 regens in series really ups the sound quality


 
  
 Oh, come on!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


doctorjazz said:


> Why stop at 4?


 
  
 LOL
  
 If a second USB Regen offers 25% of the improvement had with the first, a third USB Regen would offer only 6.25% of the improvement offered by the first, and a fourth USB Regen only 1.6%.  
  
 But maybe we should keep going until our expectation bias is fully exhausted! Only then can true contentment be achieved.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously, though, I have no problem believing that people are hearing real improvements when adding a second USB Regen.


----------



## zilch0md

yinyang69 said:


> How about schiit yggdrasil?


 
  
 http://bfy.tw/1f3j
  
 The answer can be found by reading a post at the very first link in the results list.


----------



## groovyd

doctorjazz said:


> Why stop at 4?


 

 diminishing returns kicks in


----------



## JJaudio

Hi everyone,

Question, I have ordered a Regen and I will be using it with an ifi micro IDSD DAC, the input is a USB 2.0 type A “OTG” Socket. Is anybody familer with this set up or know if the 
adaptor that is shipped with it will connect the Regen directly to the IDSD DAC, or do I need to purchase an adaptor. I ask this so I can use it right away when it arives, about the middle of this month. This way I can order or have an addaptor made now, if it is needed. I read the forums a lot, but this is my first time posting/asking for help. My work and schedule does not give me much time to do this. I will give my profile as soon as I am able too. Here is info on the DAC that I will be using the Regen with. http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-idsd/

Thank you


----------



## technobear

jjaudio said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Question, I have ordered a Regen and I will be using it with an ifi micro IDSD DAC, the input is a USB 2.0 type A “OTG” Socket. Is anybody familer with this set up or know if the
> adaptor that is shipped with it will connect the Regen directly to the IDSD DAC, or do I need to purchase an adaptor. I ask this so I can use it right away when it arives, about the middle of this month. This way I can order or have an addaptor made now, if it is needed. I read the forums a lot, but this is my first time posting/asking for help. My work and schedule does not give me much time to do this. I will give my profile as soon as I am able too. Here is info on the DAC that I will be using the Regen with. http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-idsd/
> ...




You will need the adaptor that comes with the Regen and the adaptor that comes with the micro iDSD. Just plug them together.


----------



## JJaudio

Thank you Technobear for your help. I will go with your input.


----------



## Matias

zilch0md said:


> Please note that my USB Regen gets pretty hot when operated at 9V - which is the highest voltage UpTone Audio recommends when the USB Regen is supplying 5V power to a USB-powered DAC.
> 
> If your DAC is not USB-powered, such that the USB Regen is only powering itself, the maximum supply voltage is 12V.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I asked the seller and they can set the LPS to 7V or 8V, just need to specify when ordering.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/141503525422


----------



## zilch0md

matias said:


> I asked the seller and they can set the LPS to 7V or 8V, just need to specify when ordering.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/141503525422


 
  
 Excellent!  I'd go with 7V for the USB Regen.


----------



## jazzfan

jjaudio said:


> Thank you Technobear for your help. I will go with your input.


 
  
 I recently picked up an iFi iDSD Micro that I'm currently trying with a USB REGEN. technobear provided a good zero cost solution for connecting the REGEN. I chose to spend a little (less than $5) and go with a solid male to female Type A USB 2.0 adapter to minimize the signal path and reduce the number of physical connections between the REGEN and the iDSD (see pics below). I elected to go with this approach based on Alex's comments from his following post.
  


superdad said:


> I am not saying you shouldn't use the Jitterbug--it may prove complementary to the REGEN.  I am just saying to be sure not to use it AFTER the REGEN.  *The REGEN and some short adaptor or really good short USB cable should be things closest to the DAC.*


 
  
  

  

  
 I do, however, question the quality of these adapters, as the first one I ordered from a vendor on Amazon did not work. A second adapter I ordered from ShowMeCables.com did work.
  
 Also note when using a solid adapter with the REGEN/iDSD combo, there is a need for additional connectors in order to use the rear analog RCA jacks. As you can see from the picture, 90 degree RCA adapters are required due to the limited clearance when the REGEN is connected. I'm using a pair of AudioQuest 90 degree RCA connectors that I had on hand. So far, I like the improvements the REGEN brings to the system.


----------



## head-hi

jazzfan said:


> I recently picked up an iFi iDSD Micro that I'm currently trying with a USB REGEN. technobear provided a good zero cost solution for connecting the REGEN. I chose to spend a little (less than $5) and go with a solid male to female Type A USB 2.0 adapter to minimize the signal path and reduce the number of physical connections between the REGEN and the iDSD (see pics below). I elected to go with this approach based on Alex's comments from his following post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The look satisfies. Nice.


----------



## JJaudio

Jazzfan,
Thank you for your time in responding to me. The photos are not only helpfull but great pics!
The adaptor is exactly what I am looking for, and thanks for the input on the 90 degree RCA adaptors also.
I am planning on using a Jitterbug in this set up as well. I love the Jitterbug as I think it is a great addition for the price. I am using a pair of Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650 with Moon Audio Silver Dragon Cable. If you come across a higher grade type USB addaptor, I would sure appreciate knowing about it. For now, I plan on ordering the adaptor you previously mentioned to keep the REGEN as close to the DAC as they advised, (UPTONE AUDIO) 

Thank you for the info!


----------



## Matias

Is there a right-angle adapter type A to type B to use with Regen? I know it comes with a short USB cable, but still a small 90° adapter would be preferable.
 Tks.


----------



## zilch0md

matias said:


> Is there a right-angle adapter type A to type B to use with Regen? I know it comes with a short USB cable, but still a small 90° adapter would be preferable.
> Tks.


 
  
 It doesn't come with a right-angle adapter but there are several from which to choose, available at Amazon.com and elsewhere.


----------



## Matias

I have searched for a right angle usb typa a to type b adapter and did not find any, Amazon included. Can you send me a link to one?


----------



## mscott58

matias said:


> I have searched for a right angle usb typa a to type b adapter and did not find any, Amazon included. Can you send me a link to one?


 
 You might have to do a multi-part adapter, with a right angle A to A or B to B as well as an A to B. Less than ideal, but might be the reality. However, there might be a unicorn out there!


----------



## mscott58

Has anyone tried using a Regen with a portable unit like the CDM or such? Would need to include an adapter to micro USB. Clearly wouldn't use the Regen when using the CDM as a portable, but as a transportable it could be useful. Cheers


----------



## foreverzer0

I found some right angle and extension adaptors off Amazon for mine: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VE2R0EW
  
 Question for anyone else using a Regen: after your computer wakes up from sleep, does it still recognize your DAC?
  
 I have to power-cycle my Geek Pulse for my computer to recognize it again, which I would prefer not to do.


----------



## Music Path

Looking forward of a comparision of this versus USB 3.0 from ifi, which is the new thing they are going to release.
 Supposly its an all in one... regen+wyrd+audioquest jitterbug+ifi usb 1.
 Hope the price is competitive.


----------



## Music Path

superdad said:


> US$399 (Euro445)  2.28 times the $175 price of the REGEN (2.84 times in Europe).  Plus one still needs a second USB from their box to the DAC, as opposed to mounting just an inch or so away from the DACs input.
> I may sound good though.  Thorsten is a sharp engineer.   I just figured I'd share some facts early.


 
 Oh thats cool information, i actually thought it would be more expensive.


----------



## Audio Addict

Look what arrived today.


----------



## Superdad

audio addict said:


> Look what arrived today.


 
  
 Oh dear, isn't there any way you can avoid using the dreadful sounding "emergency" 6-inch USB cable we include with the REGEN?  Not only does the solid adaptor do a better job at preserving the improved signal integrity and impedance match (two of the REGEN's key functions), but I find that 6" cable to introduce harshness.  I do see you have a tight fit there, but maybe you can search around for some other adaptors or a better-sounding short cable.
 Do give the REGEN some break-in/warm-up time and enjoy it.  Just know that if you hear anything harsh in the highs it is coming from that 6" cable.  We are working on a solution to this for the future (a non-cable cable), but the tooling costs are high and the lead times long for what we are trying to do, so it won't be until next year.
  
 Thanks again for your purchase.
 Regards,
 Alex Crespi


----------



## Audio Addict

superdad said:


> Oh dear, isn't there any way you can avoid using the dreadful sounding "emergency" 6-inch USB cable we include with the REGEN?  Not only does the solid adaptor do a better job at preserving the improved signal integrity and impedance match (two of the REGEN's key functions), but I find that 6" cable to introduce harshness.  I do see you have a tight fit there, but maybe you can search around for some other adaptors or a better-sounding short cable.
> Do give the REGEN some break-in/warm-up time and enjoy it.  Just know that if you hear anything harsh in the highs it is coming from that 6" cable.  We are working on a solution to this for the future (a non-cable cable), but the tooling costs are high and the lead times long for what we are trying to do, so it won't be until next year.
> 
> Thanks again for your purchase.
> ...


 
  
 Sorry for my main system, that was the only option.  My PWD is sitting on an exact sized shelf with no room for any support.  I hope you find a solution..


----------



## Audio Addict

audio addict said:


> Sorry for my main system, that was the only option.  My PWD is sitting on an exact sized shelf with no room for any support.  I hope you find a solution..




Anyone recommend an alternative to replace the short harsh emergency cable?


----------



## Deftone

this instantly came to mind, it would fit wouldnt it? the dragontail using the same cable thats in the pricey carbon usb.


----------



## zilch0md

audio addict said:


> Anyone recommend an alternative to replace the short harsh emergency cable?


 
  
 Even though it's nowhere near as short, I can vigorously recommend you get the Swedish-made *Supra USB 2.0* cable (as recommended by John Swenson of UpTone Audio), in the shortest length available:  0.7 meter  (27.6 inches).
  





  
 You can pay $139.00, ordering it from these guys:  
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Supra-corresponding-USB-SUPRAUSB2-0-0-7/dp/B00A0NTRUQ
  
*Or you can pay $41.85* (at the current exchange rate) ordering from these guys in the UK (with whom I've done business - they're great):
  
 http://www.futureshop.co.uk/product_info.php?currency=USD&products_id=8131  
  
 Mike
  
  
  
*Edit:*  I just realized you're seeking a cable to go between the USB Regen and your DAC.  UpTone Audio would say the 0.7m Supra USB 2.0 is too long for that mission, although a couple of people are doing that.
  
 It's pricey, but great reports have come back on using the 12cm AQVOX USB cable, available with your choice of connectors:
  




  
 http://www.myhifishop.de/Cables/Digital-Cables/AQVOX-High-End-USB-Cable-extra-short-12-30-cm::64.html


----------



## Superdad

zilch0md said:


> Even though it's nowhere near as short, I can vigorously recommend you get the Swedish-made *Supra USB 2.0* cable (as recommended by John Swenson of UpTone Audio), in the shortest length available:  0.7 meter  (27.6 inches).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi Mike:
  
 We really do like the Supra (rich, even, detailed and not fatiguing; true 90 ohms impedance; great price) and wish they offered a 6-inched version.  But there is no reason to go outside the USA to get one at a fair price.  Madisound stocks them (also with either mini or micro 'B' end) and the 0.7m standard A>B is just $41.
 https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/wire/cable/supra-high-speed-usb-2.0-a-b/


----------



## Matias

Alex, is the short USB cable supplied close in performance to the adapter or to the Supra USB cable?


----------



## Superdad

matias said:


> Alex, is the short USB cable supplied close in performance to the adapter or to the Supra USB cable?


 

 No, not at all.  The short cable we provide is terrible.  Please see my comments here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/762967/uptone-audio-usb-regen/405#post_11905869
  
 I know this begs the question of why don't we include something better.  Here are my excuses:
 a) We would rather people use the solid adapter in any case, and spending a lot more to include a better cable that most of the time won'y be used seems a waste and would drive the price of the REGEN kit up a bit;
 b) How do we find and source a better sounding short cable available in large quantities for a low price?  All the molded-end stuff comes out of China and all sounds about the same as what we include.  Anything boutique would be a fortune.  I have wondered what it would cost to have Supra make us 400-500/month of their USB cable in a very short length.  At least that is one we know  sounds nice, and Supra is an actual volume manufacturer, so price and production capability could be okay.
 c) We are working on our own long-term solution to the issue in the form of a non-cable cable, but there are a lot of tooling and prototyping costs associated and that project is not moving fast right now.  For next year.
  
 Maybe I will write to Supra and see what they would charge to make and sell me 100 6-inch (15cm) cables that I could stock and sell as low cost add-on to help some of you out.
  
 Thanks and regards,
  
 Alex Crespi


----------



## Matias

superdad said:


> No, not at all.  The short cable we provide is terrible.  Please see my comments here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/762967/uptone-audio-usb-regen/405#post_11905869
> 
> I know this begs the question of why don't we include something better.  Here are my excuses:
> a) We would rather people use the solid adapter in any case, and spending a lot more to include a better cable that most of the time won'y be used seems a waste and would drive the price of the REGEN kit up a bit;
> ...


 
  
 Suggestion: a crowdfunding campaign? Let the customers bid on purchases, and when a minimum number is achieved, you order that number + some more for you inventory from you supplier? If the number is not reached customers don't pay anything neither do you and the supplier builds nothing, nothing is lost.
  
 PS: same could be user for the new power supply.


----------



## Superdad

matias said:


> Suggestion: a crowdfunding campaign? Let the customers bid on purchases, and when a minimum number is achieved, you order that number + some more for you inventory from you supplier? If the number is not reached customers don't pay anything neither do you and the supplier builds nothing, nothing is lost.
> 
> PS: same could be user for the new power supply.


 

 Sorry, and no offense, but I don't do crowd-fleecing campaigns.  Money is not really the issue, and those campaigns take a ridiculous amount of time and energy for logistics--plus the fees paid to the sites.  If we can get a decent traditional cable made at reasonable cost, I'll put it up on our web site for $25 or so and people can order it as an add-on to their REGEN or after the fact.


----------



## Matias

None taken. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Looking forward for the official "bendable" adapter/cable and LPS then.
 Thanks.


----------



## Beolab

@Superdad 

What is your opinion btw AQ Carbon USB, Supra USB and Moon Silver Dragon USB?


----------



## Superdad

beolab said:


> @Superdad
> 
> What is your opinion btw AQ Carbon USB, Supra USB and Moon Silver Dragon USB?


 

 Sorry, but the only one of those 3 I have heard in my system is the Supra.


----------



## mscott58

beolab said:


> @Superdad
> 
> What is your opinion btw AQ Carbon USB, Supra USB and Moon Silver Dragon USB?


 
 Silver Dragon USB is a nice cable (as are their SD V3 HP cables) and knowing Drew he's likely to be up for doing a super-short custom version. Although he's not cheap, he does great work. Cheers


----------



## yuhengtiger

I am interested in using Uptone Regen for the usb solution between my iMac and schiit audio yggdrasil DAC. 
  
 So I need some recommendations here:
  
 What is a good linear power supply or battery to go with regen? 
  
 What are some good usb cables to pair with imac to regen and regen to dac? 
  
 Also, has any one used YFS split usb cable before? How is YFS + aqvox usb power supply compared to regen?
  
  
 Ps. Also, can anyone compare YFS data only usb cable with Cabledyne silver reference usb or Anticables usb cables?
  
 Some lps and battery link:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/252064468694?rmvSB=true&rmvSB=true
http://www.amazon.com/Anker-20000mAh-Multi-Voltage-Portable-Notebooks/dp/B00B45EOYS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441933127&sr=8-1&keywords=anker+astro+pro+2
  
 Anticables usb:
 http://anticables.com/interconnects/digital-rca-interconnects
  
 Thank you guys.


----------



## velvetx

Subbed


----------



## Noodlz

Wow that anti-cable USB looks pretty sweet. I'm curious to see if anyone would compare the anti-cables vs the supras in terms of USBs. Then again the point of the REGEN is supposed to reduce the need for expensive USB's right?


----------



## Beolab

yuhengtiger said:


> I am interested in using Uptone Regen for the usb solution between my iMac and schiit audio yggdrasil DAC.
> 
> So I need some recommendations here:
> 
> ...




Are they using solid Silver/Gold wire on the AntiCable or? 

Anyone here who have compared it with other cables ?


----------



## yuhengtiger

beolab said:


> Are they using solid Silver/Gold wire on the AntiCable or?
> 
> Anyone here who have compared it with other cables ?


 
  
 They didn't say whether is solid silver/gold wire. I am looking for comparisons as well. Thanks.


----------



## yuhengtiger

noodlz said:


> Wow that anti-cable USB looks pretty sweet. I'm curious to see if anyone would compare the anti-cables vs the supras in terms of USBs. Then again the point of the REGEN is supposed to reduce the need for expensive USB's right?


 
 Thank you! I am looking for comparisons between Anticable and YFS data only cable in terms of USB.


----------



## Cornan

I know that I am putting myself in pretty deep water here...but why does'nt UpTone Audio make a solution with USB Regen with a USB B male output directly from the box to begin with? If the sound is better with a short connection to the DAC that would seem to be a prefered solution...or am I wrong?
I know it is impossible to get everyone happy...but I strongly beleive that this solution will make more people happy...before it gets a standard in all future DAC's.
A final suggestion would to add a drain wire to an external grounding point at the output of the USB Regen. IMHO that would make it even more interesting!


----------



## Superdad

cornan said:


> I know that I am putting myself in pretty deep water here...but why does'nt UpTone Audio make a solution with USB Regen with a USB B male output directly from the box to begin with? If the sound is better with a short connection to the DAC that would seem to be a prefered solution...or am I wrong?
> I know it is impossible to get everyone happy...but I strongly beleive that this solution will make more people happy...before it gets a standard in all future DAC's.
> A final suggestion would to add a drain wire to an external grounding point at the output of the USB Regen. IMHO that would make it even more interesting!


 

 Hi Cornan:
  
 Thanks for sharing your thoughts about the REGEN's output connection.  As you might guess given the popularity of our device and the amount of ink spilled about (wait, it's not ink online, not phosphors either), all this have pretty much been discussed at length in the past (though mostly over at ComptuerAudiophile.com where I make my home and where the REGEN revolution started).
  
 In a nutshell:
 a) PCB-mount male USB 'B' plugs do not exist--and even if they did, not everyone would be able to fit the REGEN that close to their DAC (even closer than with the provided A>B solid adapter), and then folks would be looking for USB 'B' female to USB 'B' male extensions, which are even rarer.
  
 b) If we soldered a short USB cable to the board it would increase labor time, require proper strain relief (and a longer case), and then either not be long enough for some or versatile enough in usage for others.  And then the is the matter of the type and quality of the cable and there would be discussion and complaint about that.
  
 Not sure why you would want an external ground drain wire on the REGEN.  The USB pin 4 and shell are already tied and present as "ground" in every USB device.  Running a wire to some outside ground would invite undesirable noise and loops into the system.
  
 Have a great weekend everybody.
  
 Alex C.


----------



## Cornan

superdad said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > I know that I am putting myself in pretty deep water here...but why does'nt UpTone Audio make a solution with USB Regen with a USB B male output directly from the box to begin with? If the sound is better with a short connection to the DAC that would seem to be a prefered solution...or am I wrong?
> ...




Hi Alex!
Thanks for your quick and very proffesional reply! Appreciated! 
I am not aware of the limitations regarding the USB B male connections...but can only see the potential of having one attached to the USB Regen. I am surely buying your product...but not now. I will wait until next year when your no-cable cable is introduced.

I have extremely good experiance with external drain wires on USB cables (Entreq Discover) and equipment chassies. They all make my music sound way more analogue. I might be a geek in this area...but I do urge you to give it a try and see what it might add to the table. Not for safety grund ofcourse...just for fighting EMI/RFI...and only at the output of the USB Regen. At the end of the day this is just a personal suggestion. Take it or leave it! I'll be happy with what ever...and very happy with your reply!


----------



## yuhengtiger

I am a little confused. Since there is no power needed for the cable connecting computer and Regen, what's the point of using those cable whose strength is great insulation/separation between the power signal and data signal within the cable, like the anticables and curious cable? 
  
 Also some of the dac provides internal power for their usb input, how will this dac communicate with computer? Apparently in this case usb doesn't use power pin for handshake, so do they still do handshake using other ports or no handshake is needed? Some of my friends use a YFS data only cable (no +5v power pin) to connect to a parasound dac and it works fine.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Cornan

yuhengtiger said:


> [COLOR=222222]I am a little confused. Since there is no power needed for the cable connecting computer and Regen, what's the point of using those cable whose[/COLOR] strength is great insulation/separation between the power signal and data signal within the cable, like the anticables and curious cable?
> 
> Also some of the dac provides internal power for their usb input, how will this dac communicate with computer? Apparently in this case usb doesn't use power pin for handshake, so do they still do handshake using other ports or no handshake is needed? Some of my friends use a YFS data only cable (no +5v power pin) to connect to a parasound dac and it works fine.
> 
> Thanks.




Since the USB Regen should be placed directly before the DAC and it supplies clean power it should'nt be a problem for the majority of all DAC's. Handshake is done by drivers as far as I know. 

I have personally thoughts of making a USB cables with Litz cables to supply the audio only for the USB regen...but are still searching for firm clues IF it is a good idea or not!


----------



## yuhengtiger

cornan said:


> Since the USB Regen should be placed directly before the DAC and it supplies clean power it should'nt be a problem for the majoritet of all DAC's. Handshake is done by drivers as far as I know.
> 
> I have personally thoughts of making a USB cables with Litz cables to supply the audio only for the USB regen...but are still searching for firm clues IF it is a good idea or not!


 
 So the handshake is done by the data pins inside the USB cables, right? YFS used 3 pin data only USB cables, so I think your DIY route is doable : ). I am looking for your reviews and I wanna do DIY experiments myself. Just don't know which litz cables should I choose.


----------



## Cornan

yuhengtiger said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Since the USB Regen should be placed directly before the DAC and it supplies clean power it should'nt be a problem for the majoritet of all DAC's. Handshake is done by drivers as far as I know.
> ...



Hold your horses...I have'nt actually baught the USB Regen just yet!  I am just figuring things out at this stage. Found my Litz cables (turntable ditos) and USB connectors (gold plated)...but are still trying to understand the full potential of it all...before I start with my DIY USB cables. I love DIY though but want to be sure that I am on the right track before I proceed. I will let you know by next year (when Regen and cable selection is done) what I ended up with though!


----------



## yuhengtiger

cornan said:


> Hold your horses...I have'nt actually baught the USB Regen just yet!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, No problem. Enjoy your DIY tour though. I just wanna know how the USB handshake thing works. I feel like it uses only three pins (+, -, GND) for any DACs, with or without internal dac powered usb port. Thanks.


----------



## Cornan

yuhengtiger said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Hold your horses...I have'nt actually baught the USB Regen just yet!  I am just figuring things out at this stage. Found my Litz cables (turntable ditos) and USB connectors (gold plated)...but are still trying to understand the full potential of it all...before I start with my DIY USB cables. I love DIY though but want to be sure that I am on the right track before I proceed. I will let you know by next year (when Regen and cable selektion is done) what I ended up with though!
> ...



Thanks!  I DO enjoy it. I would'nt say that all my projects is successful though...but it is not the end of the road that counts...it is the path of that road! However, when you hit gold it feels like diamonds!


----------



## 514077

superdad said:


> audio addict said:
> 
> 
> > Look what arrived today.
> ...


 

 Do you mean that the little cable you included with the trapizoid connector is not good?  Isn't it bad enough I can't connect the Regen to the back of my Hugo directly because I had to use my SilverDragon to go from the output of the R to the Hugo because you didn't stick with normal uUSB connectors?  I hate to have to spend two hundred more just to make this device more functional.
 Why did you use those trapizoids?  I've NEVER seen them until the Regen came out.
 Other than that, I'm loving the effect it has on my HP listening.


----------



## elviscaprice

uelong said:


> Do you mean that the little cable you included with the trapizoid connector is not good?  Isn't it bad enough I can't connect the Regen to the back of my Hugo directly because I had to use my SilverDragon to go from the output of the R to the Hugo because you didn't stick with normal uUSB connectors?  I hate to have to spend two hundred more just to make this device more functional.
> Why did you use those trapizoids?  I've NEVER seen them until the Regen came out.
> Other than that, I'm loving the effect it has on my HP listening


 
  UELong, we've been thru all this already. 
 The Regen is standard USB, you don't have to use the standard adaptor included, nor the cable.  The Hugo input is the one not standard, micro.  You have been given a couple links on Amazon for a micro to normal usb adaptor, which works great with the Regen/Hugo combo.  Why would you use an expensive cable for the Regen to DAC connection?  Use an adaptor, it has been found to be superior in sound.
 So go out and spend $2 - $5, get the superior SQ adaptor and quite playing around.
  
 PS  (I found my 6" black dragon inferior to the $2 adaptor I use by a wide margin)


----------



## 514077

elviscaprice said:


> uelong said:
> 
> 
> > Do you mean that the little cable you included with the trapizoid connector is not good?  Isn't it bad enough I can't connect the Regen to the back of my Hugo directly because I had to use my SilverDragon to go from the output of the R to the Hugo because you didn't stick with normal uUSB connectors?  I hate to have to spend two hundred more just to make this device more functional.
> ...


 

 You're right: but, unfortunately, the a.com links don't work for me being north of the 49th.  I tried to order through amazon.com.  I was surprised you are able to order from Costa Rica, as Canuks aren't allowed to order from US. 
 I do appreciate the help I've gotten on this thread.  Must've been something in the coffee.
 As to the SilverDragon, I had it long before I heard of the Regen and would like to keep using it as a feeder to the R's input.  I just can't seem to find the right connector for the cord.  Therefore, I'll just use the adapter that came with the Regen and hook it directly to the back of my comp.  That may do something for the sound.
 Sorry for the psychopost.


----------



## elviscaprice

Understood, my friend.
 Here is a link for the exact same adapter I have, but thru Amazon Canada.  You will be surprised to hear the improvement in SQ over that USB Dragon chord.
  
 http://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-GCUSBAMBM-Micro-Cable-Adapter/dp/B001K9BEJ6/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1442022514&sr=8-14&keywords=startech+adapter+micro
  
  
 You do not want to use an adapter from your computer USB to the Regen.  Use a good chord like Supra.  Think I paid about $40 for mine 1 Meter.
  
 I keep my 6" Micro Dragon for mobile uses when I don't want to have to bring the Regen along.


----------



## yuhengtiger

IMO, there is two ways for connecting the Regen, one is use long usb cable from computer to input of Regen and connect Regen directly to DAC using adaptor. The other is connect computer to Regen using short usb cable or adaptor and a long usb cable from Regen to DAC. Which one is the recommended way to use Regen? 

YFS data only cable fits in the first option since it don't have power wire. I asked the curious cable today and they recommended the second option. But in this second way (long usb from Regen output toDAC), there is no way to prevent power coupling in the computer to Regen short link, am I correct? Also can we use the adaptor from computer to Regen? Will it give enough room for the power input plug for Regen?
  
I have read the usb protocol introductions here http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb1.shtml
  
 As I understand it, at initialization phase, the host device will get the configurations from usb device (your dac) by sending some commands over the data wires. Then it reads the response from the device (DAC) to see whether it requires power from the VBUS (+5) line. And the handshake packets are all through data wires only. So I guess from computer to Regen, no power wire in the USB is needed in any case.


----------



## zilch0md

yuhengtiger said:


> IMO, there is two ways for connecting the Regen, one is use long usb cable from computer to input of Regen and connect Regen directly to DAC using adaptor. The other is connect computer to Regen using short usb cable or adaptor and a long usb cable from Regen to DAC. Which one is the recommended way to use Regen?


 
  
 John Swenson and Alex Crespi (of Uptone Audio) vigorously remind customers to _*place the USB Regen as close as possible to the DAC*_, ideally using the included USB adapter, rather than a cable.  
  
 Mike


----------



## zilch0md

superdad said:


> [snip]
> 
> Maybe I will write to Supra and see what they would charge to make and sell me 100 6-inch (15cm) cables that I could stock and sell as low cost add-on to help some of you out.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That would be great if Supra could produce a 6-inch version of their cable!  *Thanks for considering this, Alex!*
  
 And I think your reasoning for not bundling such a cable with the USB Regen makes a lot of sense. Why raise the cost for everyone when only a minority of USB Regen owners will use it (in lieu of the short adapter)?
  
 Thanks!
  
 Mike


----------



## zilch0md

yuhengtiger said:


> I am interested in using Uptone Regen for the usb solution between my iMac and schiit audio yggdrasil DAC.
> 
> So I need some recommendations here:
> 
> ...


 
  
 For both LPS and USB Cable recommendations, you could just back up a few pages in this thread and come forward.


----------



## zilch0md

Has anyone ever tested one of the six-inch USB cables referenced in this post at Computeraudiophile?
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/uptone-audio-regen-22803-post464546/#post464546
  
 Thanks!
  
 Mike


----------



## 514077

elviscaprice said:


> Understood, my friend.
> Here is a link for the exact same adapter I have, but thru Amazon Canada.  You will be surprised to hear the improvement in SQ over that USB Dragon chord.
> 
> http://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-GCUSBAMBM-Micro-Cable-Adapter/dp/B001K9BEJ6/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1442022514&sr=8-14&keywords=startech+adapter+micro
> ...


 

 Thanks again.  It's on the way.  Looking forward to the results.
 Kevin


----------



## 514077

zilch0md said:


> superdad said:
> 
> 
> > [snip]
> ...


 

 +1.  And sorry for my outburst, @superdad.  Your reasons are understandable and appreciated.


----------



## Audio Addict

superdad said:


> Oh dear, isn't there any way you can avoid using the dreadful sounding "emergency" 6-inch USB cable we include with the REGEN?  Not only does the solid adaptor do a better job at preserving the improved signal integrity and impedance match (two of the REGEN's key functions), but I find that 6" cable to introduce harshness.  I do see you have a tight fit there, but maybe you can search around for some other adaptors or a better-sounding short cable.
> Do give the REGEN some break-in/warm-up time and enjoy it.  Just know that if you hear anything harsh in the highs it is coming from that 6" cable.  We are working on a solution to this for the future (a non-cable cable), but the tooling costs are high and the lead times long for what we are trying to do, so it won't be until next year.
> 
> Thanks again for your purchase.
> ...




Okay, I ditched the cable for the adapter and using the power and main USB cables coming down from the shelf above to take the weight off the connection with the REGEN.


----------



## yuhengtiger

zilch0md said:


> For both LPS and USB Cable recommendations, you could just back up a few pages in this thread and come forward.


 
 Thank you. I am looking at it now. Thanks.


----------



## yuhengtiger

Anyone tried to pair the Regen with Curious cable 
 http://www.curiouscables.com/
  
 and care to compare it with Supra cable?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## zilch0md

yuhengtiger said:


> Anyone tried to pair the Regen with Curious cable
> http://www.curiouscables.com/
> 
> and care to compare it with Supra cable?
> ...


 
  
 I don't have a Curious Cable, but even with the 30-day guarantee and free round-trip shipping, $340 is more than I want to spend on a USB cable.
  
 The 0.7m Supra USB 2.0 sells for less than $50.


----------



## yuhengtiger

zilch0md said:


> I don't have a Curious Cable, but even with the 30-day guarantee and free round-trip shipping, $340 is more than I want to spend on a USB cable.
> 
> The 0.7m Supra USB 2.0 sells for less than $50.


 
 Thank you! I will need 1.5 meters usb. Good deal for Supra!


----------



## zilch0md

Here's a recent post from Alex Crespi of UpTone Audio, summarizing what the USB Regen does:
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/uptone-audio-regen-listening-impressions-24078/index68.html#post465160


----------



## Music Path

How does new ifi iusb3 compares with the regen? Curious about it.


----------



## Beolab

Just bought the AudioQuest 0,75m USB Diamond 990€ and it sounds good  



Then i bought the BlueSound Node2 streamer with Tidal and Meridian MQA support, combined with AQ Diamond Spidf Coax it sounds very refind in comparision with my iphone / AQ Diamond USB setup.



Just waiting for my Regen  


PS 
Would it be impossible to make a Spidf Coax Regen ?


----------



## Franatic

music path said:


> How does new ifi iusb3 compares with the regen? Curious about it.


 
 I have the micro idsd with a Regen(linear psu/sbooster ultra). It is awesome. I am very impressed by this Regen, especially at its price point.
  
 I am also very curious about the iusb3.0, but not willing to put out $399 to find out.
 You can get it here: http://www.essentialaudio.com/products/digital/ifi-audio
 Let me know how it is.....thanks
  
 I actually might eventually get the iusb3.0 when I upgrade my micro idsd for the ifi idsd pro, whenever the pro makes it through R&D.


----------



## Beolab

OT

@Franaric

What do you now about the iDSD Pro how it will differ from the conventional iDSD ?


----------



## technobear

beolab said:


> OT
> 
> @Franaric
> 
> What do you now about the iDSD Pro how it will differ from the conventional iDSD ?




http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-desktop-line-discussion-thread


----------



## Beolab

technobear said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-desktop-line-discussion-thread




Its looks ugly, no Pro feeling at all.. 




Tried out a iTube Buffer with 3D Holographic mode set to Max, gets more depth in the sound, but in the long therm its not high end.. 

You need a Chord DAVE to get real depth... 

Back to topic! 

How is it going with the new Regens for the october shippment, and the development of the power adapter Alex?


----------



## Beolab

Alex do you think i would get any further improvment if should use a Audiophilleo 2 
Async USB to S/pidif converter 
www.itemaudio.co.uk/digital-converters/453-audiophilleo-2.html after the Regen, because i listening from my Iphone with the camera kit adapter mainly. 

What is you thaughts? 

Do you think i should draw any benefit of this product for the the SQ performance?


----------



## Superdad

beolab said:


> Alex do you think i would get any further improvment if should use a Audiophilleo 2
> Async USB to S/pidif converter
> www.itemaudio.co.uk/digital-converters/453-audiophilleo-2.html after the Regen, because i listening from my Iphone with the camera kit adapter mainly.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, the REGEN benefits USB>S/PDIF converters in the same way--and for the same reasons--as it does any USB input DAC.  A good number of people with Audiophileo or Berkeley Alpha USB converters are greatly enjoying them fed by a REGEN.


----------



## mscott58

superdad said:


> Yes, the REGEN benefits USB>S/PDIF converters in the same way--and for the same reasons--as it does any USB input DAC.  A good number of people with Audiophileo or Berkeley Alpha USB converters are greatly enjoying them fed by a REGEN.


 
 Anyone have thoughts on the best USB to SPDIF converter for ~$500 or less? Cheers


----------



## Cornan

mscott58 said:


> superdad said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, the REGEN benefits USB>S/PDIF converters in the same way--and for the same reasons--as it does any USB input DAC.  A good number of people with Audiophileo or Berkeley Alpha USB converters are greatly enjoying them fed by a REGEN.
> ...



I can strongly recommend Stello U3 http://www.aprilmusic.com/eng/main/sub02_03_05.html. I have used it for several years and still have'nt heard a USB>Spdif converter with better SQ. Truly worth a listen!
Edit: Berkeley Alpha USB is surely better but much more expensive. In the USD 500 price range Stello U3 is very difficult to beat IMO.


----------



## PWGuy

I like the initial change of adding the Audioquest Jitterbug to my laptop connection to REGEN to DAC.  I wasn't expecting any noticeable difference over the REGEN by itself with standard SMPS.


----------



## Music Path

franatic said:


> I have the micro idsd with a Regen(linear psu/sbooster ultra). It is awesome. I am very impressed by this Regen, especially at its price point.
> 
> I am also very curious about the iusb3.0, but not willing to put out $399 to find out.
> You can get it here: http://www.essentialaudio.com/products/digital/ifi-audio
> ...




Same opinion of you, i think usb3 its a bit expensive. Will look, but i think that these filters only work with usb powered dacs, those with external supply have less jitter.


----------



## Music Path

beolab said:


> Its looks ugly, no Pro feeling at all..
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The 3D itube buffer function is mostly for speakers.


----------



## porridgecup

First impressions with REGEN, using a Gungnir multibit DAC:
  
 The difference is small, but there's definitely a noticeable improvement. I hear more transparency and more instrument separation.
  
 Somewhat paradoxically, I found things sounding better at lower volumes, yet I have to turn the volume up more than I normally would in order to get the full "experience" I'm used to, if that makes sense. The volume can be raised higher than usual due to less fatigue.
  
 I'm playing with the Jitterbug as well, but am still undecided whether or not to keep it in the chain. From testing the REGEN, I'm 100% sure I'm going to keep using it.


----------



## point7

porridgecup said:


> First impressions with REGEN, using a Gungnir multibit DAC:
> 
> The difference is small, but there's definitely a noticeable improvement. I hear more transparency and more instrument separation.
> 
> ...


 
  
 After 10 day's testing with 2 Jitterbugs I removed them because there was something wrong with the sound.  No details and fatiguing/harsh sounds.  When I removed the 2 Jitterbugs the sound was again extremely good with the REGEN.


----------



## technobear

point7 said:


> After 10 day's testing with 2 Jitterbugs I removed them because there was something wrong with the sound.  No details and fatiguing/harsh sounds.  When I removed the 2 Jitterbugs the sound was again extremely good with the REGEN.




How did you use the Jitterbugs?


----------



## point7

technobear said:


> How did you use the Jitterbugs?


 
  
 1 Jitterbug in the USB-port of my Shuttle PC (music server) and then via a Supra USB cable to my REGEN. A second Jitterbug in a open parallel USB port on my Shuttle PC. Exactly like Audioquest suggests to do.  The Jitterbug in or out the open USB port did not make any difference.


----------



## Cornan

Just out of curiousity. Have anyone compared the AQ Jitterbug to the IFI iPurifier on this thread? I have'nt tried the JB but have great experiance with iPurifier. Even with iPurifier I did experianced some initial "burn-in" issues that dissapeared after some time. IMO the sound seattled after a week or two and became more analougue. I have been using it for several years now and been very happy with it. As far as I can see the JB have the same features...except iPurifier having better quality build. Anyone on this thread that have tried them both? Any difference between them?


----------



## porridgecup

point7 said:


> After 10 day's testing with 2 Jitterbugs I removed them because there was something wrong with the sound.  No details and fatiguing/harsh sounds.  When I removed the 2 Jitterbugs the sound was again extremely good with the REGEN.


 
 I only have one Jitterbug, but this is what I'm noticing, too. I was not performing blind testing, but at this point I'm 90% sure the Jitterbug is producing changes that I dislike. And if it counts, I had this opinion of the Jitterbug before I read your post and other critical posts.
  
 I researched a little, and someone on another audiophile forum had this to say:
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/audioquest-jitterbug-vs-uptone-regen-24407/index6.html#post455533
  
Audio maverick, Alan Maher has retracted his recommendation of the Audioquest Jitterbug after a second listen. He said of the Jitterbug "… it thins out the bass because it restricts buss power to the USB cable by adding resistance..... When the USB buss power voltage is slightly on the low side USB tonally sounds weak with thin bass (not rolled off) with a crisp or over exaggerated upper midrange."
 Come to think of it, the Regen affects the bass range but adding resistance to the USB ground.

  
I have no idea if this is accurate from a technical perspective. However, subjectively, that is what I'm hearing; thinner bass and emphasized upper mids and highs. Some songs sound a bit more "screechy" with the Jitterbug.
  
He speculates the Regen might do the same thing (though without a subjective review of it). Personally, I have not heard thinner bass with it; the bass actually sounds a bit tighter with more "attack", though not more amplified.
  
I'm not going to experiment with the Jitterbug any longer. The Regen suits my needs perfectly. Maybe it's possible the JB actually _is_ removing jitter, and this is how the music is genuinely supposed to sound, but if it is, then I'm perfectly happy with a less accurate but more enjoyable representation.


----------



## dmbr

I have a Jitterbug and Wyrd--would it make sense to use the Regen in conjunction with these?


----------



## 514077

porridgecup said:


> point7 said:
> 
> 
> > After 10 day's testing with 2 Jitterbugs I removed them because there was something wrong with the sound.  No details and fatiguing/harsh sounds.  When I removed the 2 Jitterbugs the sound was again extremely good with the REGEN.
> ...


 

 I just read the next post responding to the post you quoted.  I just got my AQJB yesterday, and I think I'm still going to try it out.  Maybe it's just as well my HPs have a good bass already.  Thanks for your opinions; it'll be something to watch for.


----------



## jazzfan

Hi Everyone,
  
 I'm a little late to the game, but I just updated my Yggdrasil review (see my sig) with a few of my experiences with the REGEN. Re-posting in this thread in case you're only interested in the REGEN:
  
_*Addendum (09/2015): USB REGEN Update*_

_Given all the recent praise bestowed on this new device, I was eagerly awaiting the arrival of my USB REGEN from UpTone Audio. I placed my order for the REGEN at the end of June and received it last month. After adding it to my Yggdrasil, I immediately noticed improvements in three areas - bass reproduction, soundstage size, and overall presentation. In this brief update, I'll describe how the REGEN performed in each of these areas, then conclude with a recommendation.

 I enjoy solid, fast subterranean bass which is why I've always matched all of my speaker systems with a subwoofer. I found this is one area where the REGEN can produce immediately noticeable results as long as the right recording is used. On Solar Sailor from the Tron soundtrack, the track contains fundamentals that go down to 20Hz with additional strong peaks around 45Hz. With the REGEN, the bass on this track is produced with notably more weight giving the impression of a larger sense of space. Without the REGEN, the bass has less authority resulting in a less immersive experience.

 What also became apparent, was the REGEN's ability to extend the decay of music with natural or artificial reverberation. The amount of additional reverberation added ranged from audibly subtle to immediately noticeable depending on the recording. When present, this allows you to hear (and almost see) more deeply into the recording. The REGEN also provides a greater sense of space around instruments and imaging became more precise. The result of added reverberation and improved imaging is a larger, more open and spacious soundstage.

 Lastly, and what I found most enjoyable, the overall presentation of the music became more relaxed. The REGEN added a certain richness to the sound. As a result, recordings of horns, strings, vocals or cymbals that normally sound hot or edgy, were soften such that I could listen at higher than normal levels and still enjoy the music. Initially, I thought the REGEN was softening the attack of instruments and vocals. But as I spent more time with the REGEN, I discovered the REGEN produced a richer, much more fuller sound that balanced (rather than diminished) the sound of the attack. It was this balance that gave the illusion of softening, or smoothing, the sound. For example, without the REGEN, the leading edge of cymbals have a thinner metallic sound that, although is realistic, is ultimately not as satisfying as the relaxed, richer sound provided with the REGEN.

 It's also important to mention that all of the differences previously noted, especially those concerning soundstage and imaging, were easily more apparent when listening to speakers than with headphones.

*Summary*

 After having spent several weeks listening to the REGEN/Yggy combination with a wide variety of music on both headphones and speakers (but mostly with speakers), I've come to the conclusion that the incremental improvements provided by the REGEN are worth the relatively modest price of admission. You may draw a difference conclusion based on whether you spend the majority of time listening to headphones or speakers.

 If you are looking to improve the performance of your Yggy, I would strongly suggest spending some time with a REGEN to see if you enjoy the results. You might find the REGEN gives the Yggy (or even other DACs) a reasonable boost in performance at a modest cost._


----------



## dmbr

uelong said:


> I just read the next post responding to the post you quoted.  I just got my AQJB yesterday, and I think I'm still going to try it out.  Maybe it's just as well my HPs have a good bass already.  Thanks for your opinions; it'll be something to watch for.


A thinner bass is really the only noticeable thing the Jitterbug does for me, indeed :/


----------



## dmbr

cornan said:


> Just out of curiousity. Have anyone compared the AQ Jitterbug to the IFI iPurifier on this thread? I have'nt tried the JB but have great experiance with iPurifier. Even with iPurifier I did experianced some initial "burn-in" issues that dissapeared after some time. IMO the sound seattled after a week or two and became more analougue. I have been using it for several years now and been very happy with it. As far as I can see the JB have the same features...except iPurifier having better quality build. Anyone on this thread that have tried them both? Any difference between them?


 I've ordered an iPurifier (along with an iUSB Power Supply, and an iFi Mercury cable) and I have a Jitterbug and Wyrd. Sure am eager to get my hands on a Regen, but preorder will have to do!

I'll be reporting my impressions and how they stack 


By the way, has anyone found inserting the Jitterbug into an adjacent USB slot to do anything at all?


----------



## Cornan

dmbr said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Just out of curiousity. Have anyone compared the AQ Jitterbug to the IFI iPurifier on this thread? I have'nt tried the JB but have great experiance with iPurifier. Even with iPurifier I did experianced some initial "burn-in" issues that dissapeared after some time. IMO the sound seattled after a week or two and became more analougue. I have been using it for several years now and been very happy with it. As far as I can see the JB have the same features...except iPurifier having better quality build. Anyone on this thread that have tried them both? Any difference between them?
> ...




Thanks. Would be interesting to hear your impressions!  I am thinking of buying the Jitterbug and add it in a emty USB slot or before my wirless USB mouse dongle.


----------



## Beolab

Alex 

Is the October-Regen-batch on its way or how is it going?


----------



## semeniub

porridgecup said:


> I only have one Jitterbug, but this is what I'm noticing, too. I was not performing blind testing, but at this point I'm 90% sure the Jitterbug is producing changes that I dislike. And if it counts, I had this opinion of the Jitterbug before I read your post and other critical posts.
> 
> I researched a little, and someone on another audiophile forum had this to say:
> 
> ...


 

 I have had the same experience with the JB as you have had, and found my music to sound quite flat and dull when using one in a chain with a REGEN. The JB is gone for good now, sacrificed to the Recycling Gods.
  
 I have to say that my purchase of the JB was based more on the hype and low cost (try it, it's cheap), rather than my own intuition of what makes sense. I won't be making that mistake again.


----------



## hifi808

There are measurements of the REGEN and JB and much discussion going on at *WBF*.
  
 Gives me pause.


----------



## Beolab

hifi808 said:


> There are measurements of the REGEN and JB and much discussion going on at *WBF*.
> 
> Gives me pause.





If this test are accurate from what i think it is, then my question is what it does to the sound more than inject distortion and differ the SQ?


----------



## Hi Rez

hifi808 said:


> There are measurements of the REGEN and JB and much discussion going on at *WBF*.
> 
> Gives me pause.


 

 Seems much of the discussion is about whether the measurements Amirm performed are valid for the Regen.  Back to the same old arguments of "if it can't be measured, there can't possibly be a audible difference" vs "there is an audible difference, but we don't know how to measure what we hear" vs "there is a measurable difference, but is it audible?"
  
 I guess one has to make their own evaluation as to which camp is correct.  Or pick one up and decide for your self.


----------



## hifimanrookie

I am interested in buying a regen for my custommade Blue Circle Audio PaG amp/dac..but i am in the netherlands...so i use 230v/240v and the dual pins european shuko plug...on all the pics of the regen i only see the three pins US plug and 110v...

Do u guys know if the regen works with 230/240v? And when ordering, do u get a powercord with euro plug if u ask for it?

Thanks for replying..and my apologies if this was answered already here..i just cant go through all the posts


----------



## Hi Rez

hifimanrookie said:


> I am interested in buying a regen for my custommade Blue Circle Audio PaG amp/dac..but i am in the netherlands...so i use 230v/240v and the dual pins european shuko plug...on all the pics of the regen i only see the three pins US plug and 110v...
> 
> Do u guys know if the regen works with 230/240v? And when ordering, do u get a powercord with euro plug if u ask for it?
> 
> Thanks for replying..and my apologies if this was answered already here..i just cant go through all the posts


 
 The power supply that comes with the Regen is world voltage compatible - it will work with 230v/240v.  It comes however with an 18 inch US compatible power cord - if you are overseas, you'll need to provide your own power cord with an appropriate plug.  
  
 The Regen itself needs 6 - 9 volts dc via a standard 5.5 x 2.1 dc plug.  If you have a better (linear) power supply available, you could also use that instead of the provided smps.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## steady339

Hi Everyone,
  
 I'm having excellent results with the combination of *Regen* and *two* *Jitterbugs* in my system using a WireWorld Platinum USB cable and Eastern Electric MiniMax Plus DAC.  One JB is inline with my hub and the second JB is inline with USB cable to the Regen, plugged directly into my DAC.  Bass is strong, full midrange, natural sounding high frequencies, deep and focused sound stage.
  
_Update:_  Now that I have been living with the Jitterbugs in my system for a few weeks my impressions of the JBug filter is that it works by rolling off the high frequencies and definitely has a negative effect on dynamic range for music.  After readjusting BitPerfect with the 3.0 update to the recommended settings, (with BitPerfect's outstanding 64-bit oversampling algorithm) the Regen and BitPerfect 3.0 combo are much preferred for music playback in my system.  However, I will still be use the Jbugs for when BitPerfect will not work, such as for _internet radio, Netflix_, or _YouTube_ because the JBugs do give pleasing SQ.
  
_Roger_


----------



## point7

hifimanrookie said:


> I am interested in buying a regen for my custommade Blue Circle Audio PaG amp/dac..but i am in the netherlands...so i use 230v/240v and the dual pins european shuko plug...on all the pics of the regen i only see the three pins US plug and 110v...
> 
> Do u guys know if the regen works with 230/240v? And when ordering, do u get a powercord with euro plug if u ask for it?
> 
> Thanks for replying..and my apologies if this was answered already here..i just cant go through all the posts


 
  
 Hi,
  
 I'm from Belgium and you can use any computer power cord you have lying around. 
  

  
 Greetings


----------



## 514077

Is there really a diference with two jitterbugs, one not even in the DAC circuit?  Or is it a clever attempt to sell more of them?  I'm not inclined to by two of them to find out as it seems a bit nebulous.  I'd be openminded to various opinions.


----------



## zilch0md

Unfortunately, with these USB upgrades, unless someone is using the exact same hardware you're using, including USB cables, their observations will be irrelevant to what you might experience. 

Buy and try.


----------



## wowu5

Anyone have any idea as of when would the order for October (which I did in September) be delivered?


----------



## Hi Rez

wowu5 said:


> Anyone have any idea as of when would the order for October (which I did in September) be delivered?


 
 Lately it appears they have been shipping 150 units or so a week.  So if you ordered yours early in September, it likely will be shipped fairly soon.  If you ordered later in the month, it might not ship for a couple more weeks, depending on the number of September orders before yours.  And it seems you are overseas, so you'll need to allow extra shipping time for that too.
  
 I just ordered an additional one last week and am not really expecting it until late this month.
  
 They are well worth the wait IMO.


----------



## steady339

uelong said:


> Is there really a diference with two jitterbugs, one not even in the DAC circuit?  Or is it a clever attempt to sell more of them?  I'm not inclined to by two of them to find out as it seems a bit nebulous.  I'd be openminded to various opinions.


 
*UELong,*

 The REGEN plus the two Jitterbugs has really made a significant SQ difference in my system.  My setup is USB cable plugged into my Jitterbugged powered hub, a second Jbug is on another hub to my external hard drives.  I did try the parallel configuration of two Jitterbugs, but I could not hear any difference over a single JB in my system.  The $96 I spent for the two Jitterbugs with free shipping from Amazon has a 14 day return privilege.  You will never know if it will work for you unless you give it a try.
  
_Update:_  Now that I have been living with the Jitterbugs in my system for a few weeks my impressions of the JBug filter is that it works by rolling off the high frequencies and definitely has a negative effect on dynamic range for music.  After readjusting BitPerfect with the 3.0 update to the recommended settings, (with BitPerfect's outstanding 64-bit oversampling algorithm) the Regen and BitPerfect 3.0 combo are much preferred for music playback in my system.  However, I will still be use the Jbugs for when BitPerfect will not work, such as for _internet radio, Netflix_, or _YouTube_ because the JBugs do give pleasing SQ.
  
 __________
_Roger _


----------



## 514077

steady339 said:


> uelong said:
> 
> 
> > Is there really a diference with two jitterbugs, one not even in the DAC circuit?  Or is it a clever attempt to sell more of them?  I'm not inclined to by two of them to find out as it seems a bit nebulous.  I'd be openminded to various opinions.
> ...


 

 Thanks guys.  I think I'll stick with one for now, till I can upgrade Windows a bit.  Like it already so far.


----------



## Ilja77

Any compare to IFI power usb please ??


----------



## jazzfan

ilja77 said:


> Any compare to IFI power usb please ??


 
  
 I directly compared the REGEN and the iFi iUSB Power using an iFi Micro iDSD and preferred the REGEN. With the iDSD, I found that the REGEN provided greater sonic benefits (in terms of quality and quantity) at a lower cost. See the USB REGEN update in my sig for my thoughts on how the REGEN performed with the Yggy. These, of course, are my views and others may have had different experiences with these devices.


----------



## porridgecup

jazzfan said:


> I directly compared the REGEN and the iFi iUSB Power using an iFi Micro iDSD and preferred the REGEN. With the iDSD, I found that the REGEN provided greater sonic benefits (in terms of quality and quantity) at a lower cost. See the USB REGEN update in my sig for my thoughts on how the REGEN performed with the Yggy. These, of course, are my views and others may have had different experiences with these devices.


 
 I found the REGEN noticeably increased the transparency and subjective soundstage with the Gungnir multibit (which is fairly similar to the Yggy). I can also corroborate your comment about "softening" and being able to listen at higher volumes with less fatigue.


----------



## Music Path

jazzfan said:


> I directly compared the REGEN and the iFi iUSB Power using an iFi Micro iDSD and preferred the REGEN. With the iDSD, I found that the REGEN provided greater sonic benefits (in terms of quality and quantity) at a lower cost. See the USB REGEN update in my sig for my thoughts on how the REGEN performed with the Yggy. These, of course, are my views and others may have had different experiences with these devices.


 
 What about against the ifi usb 3.0?


----------



## jazzfan

music path said:


> What about against the ifi usb 3.0?


 
  
 Unfortunately, I have no experience with the iFi micro iUSB3.0, so I have no opinion to offer on that particular unit.


----------



## nimmen

I'm considering few ways how to improve my computer->DAC chain.
 Basically I have few options(which can be mixed): get usb power isolator, get usb regen, get better cable.
 My setup is 5m usb cable(generic, not the cheapest) and metrum musette dac(it uses M2Tech HiFace). I'm assuming that metrum guys did good work and I would be sceptical on using usb power isolator. However, was wondering if usb-regen would bring any benefit in this chain and reduce jitter. Did anyone try one usb-regen from uptone(or others) with longer usb cables or specifically metrum dac's, or even with M2Tech HiFace ?


----------



## foreverzer0

nimmen said:


> I'm considering few ways how to improve my computer->DAC chain.
> Basically I have few options(which can be mixed): get usb power isolator, get usb regen, get better cable.
> My setup is 5m usb cable(generic, not the cheapest) and metrum musette dac(it uses M2Tech HiFace). I'm assuming that metrum guys did good work and I would be sceptical on using usb power isolator. However, was wondering if usb-regen would bring any benefit in this chain and reduce jitter. Did anyone try one usb-regen from uptone(or others) with longer usb cables or specifically metrum dac's, or even with M2Tech HiFace ?


 
  
 Or even a Gustard U12 USB Interface? That looks like a serious piece of dedicated USB hardware.


----------



## nimmen

foreverzer0 said:


> Or even a Gustard U12 USB Interface? That looks like a serious piece of dedicated USB hardware.


 
 right....


----------



## Cornan

I have finally ordered my USB Regen for delivery in mid of November...thanks to Mike @zilch0md. Excited of course!  Anyone using the 9v iFi iPower to supply the USB Regen? Is is good enough for starters or better to climb up the ladder a bit? I am also figuring that the Vertere Acoustic D-Fi v2 USB cable (available in 25 cm lenght...but I might end up with longer) would be something really good with the Regen. Anyone tried this cable on this thread?


----------



## crazychile

cornan said:


> I have finally ordered my USB Regen for delivery in mid of November...thanks to Mike @zilch0md. Excited of course!  Anyone using the 9v iFi iPower to supply the USB Regen? Is is good enough for starters or better to climb up the ladder a bit? I am also figuring that the Vertere Acoustic D-Fi v2 USB cable (available in 25 cm lenght...but I might end up with longer) would be something really good with the Regen. Anyone tried this cable on this thread?


 

 Uptone is working on am upgraded PS for the Regen. I'd wait until that comes out before making a decision to upgrade. Although, theres really nothing wrong with the stock PS that comes with the Regen.


----------



## zilch0md

Another good review:   http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/10/uptone-audio-usb-regen-review.html


----------



## Cornan

crazychile said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > I have finally ordered my USB Regen for delivery in mid of November...thanks to Mike @zilch0md
> ...



Well, I could'nt help myself! Bought the Kingsrex uPower since they had a very good deal on it right now. It will hopefully be good enough for me and my Regen. Fingers crossed!


----------



## crazychile

cornan said:


> crazychile said:
> 
> 
> > cornan said:
> ...




So how much was it? I went their web page and couldnt find a price. It's pure speculation but it wouldn't surprise me if the uptone is at least $75 or more when it comes out. It could even be as much as the Regen. In any case please report back once you have a chance to listen to your Regen with the Kingrex.


----------



## Cornan

crazychile said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > crazychile said:
> ...



It was roughly USD100. Will use it on my computer USB hub as well as powering the USB Regen...since it have two outputs. Promise to report back after my first impression!


----------



## Cornan

Here is a 6 moons review of Fidelizer Pro by Paul Candy using a USB Regen http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/fidelizer/1.html
I wonder if there is an upcoming review for the USB Regen as well?


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> Here is a 6 moons review of Fidelizer Pro by Paul Candy using a USB Regen http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/fidelizer/1.html
> I wonder if there is an upcoming review for the USB Regen as well?


 


> Father John Misty's deliciously twisted _I Love You, Honeybear _[16/44.1 FLAC] or Florence + the Machine's _Lungs_ [16/44.1 FLAC] didn't irritate to the same degree or prompt my mind to wander as


 
 Hardly a 'ringing' endorsement of the Fidelizer.  I used 'Lungs' in my 6922 tube review and in my computer system and DAC it's as sweet as can be.
 I wrote this in the review on 'Lungs' 'Dog Days Are Over'.  Complex, intense, multi-layered, difficult for most tubes to stay uncongested and hit the compression wall - but never 'irritating'.


> *Florence and the Machine – Album 'Lungs - 'Dog Days Are Over' Emo-Rock*
> Difficult, powerful female vocals. Multilayer-ed recording with sometimes as many a three vocals layers at one time. Combining into some very difficult loud and complex passages – perfect to test the Scalability of a tube.


 
 I suggest Paul Candy borrow Srajen's La Scala MK2 for an irritation-less listening experience.  Otherwise I'd definitely recommend avoiding Seether's 'Disclaimer II' - to prevent a likely ear bleed.


----------



## rb2013

SuperDad or John Swenson:
  
 Really enjoyed your stuff on the website and over on the CA thread (as it looks like the revisioning is over on the Regen - at least for now - I have ordered two).  I posted some of the more technical posts on my Gustard U12 thread.  Great stuff!
  
 A few questions and a request:
 First the question - as JS posted on the the effect or really the lack of effect of PS 'ripple' emanating from the power grid (or household grid) - but the importance of PS impedance.  In making the PHY work hard and thereby increasing internally generated noise.  Why does the Regen respond so well to a better LPS?  For e3xample the TeraDak SB30W with the R-core or even the TeraDak X1/X2 - is it not because these do a better job of filtered stable power, but have lower impedance's - or both?  The feedback on using these with the Regen has been almost universally positive.  Has anyone measured their impedance's?  vs say the JS-2?
  
 And for that matter the sbooster ultra - does the addition of this device (which looks to just add more filtering and capacitance) lower the impedance of the PS.  How about the power chord feeding the TeraDaks, any you would recommend to lower their impedance values?
  
 Really break through audio engineering and what likely will be a major factor in advancing audio power supplies.  Congrats on some really  innovative - 'out of the box' thinking.  Really happy it's paying off for you guys.


> It is important to note that the packet noise in the​ DAC is generated inside the​DAC by its own components processing the​ USB data, NOT coming from the outside world over the​ USB cable or power supply of the​ DAC. The impedance (over a broad frequency range) of the PS is PART of the PDN impedance so it does have an affect on the packet noise. This is critical to understand, the impedance of the power supply is far more important than the noise level of the power supply, the packet noise is generated by the​ DAC itself, NOT coming in off the external supply, since the supply is an important part of the PDN impedance, the supply impedance is more important than it's actual noise level.​​ ​ This is contrary to what everybody seems to be doing, all I ever hear is people looking at the "ripple value" or noise level and using that to choose between power supplies. This is the wrong thing to look at. Unfortunately NOBODY gives you an impedance VS frequency chart for their PS, so there really is no good way to choose a supply based on spec sheets. Better quality supplies also tend to have lower impedance's, so there is a fairly good correlation between noise level and low impedance, but it is not guaranteed. I can come with several ways to build very low noise supplies which have a fairly high output impedance, which will sound bad driving a regen or a​ DAC.​


 
  
 Second question on the addition of the resistors to the 'amber' version (I like to call Regen 1.1) between the data lines +/- and the ground.  Where is that resistance created ground going?  Back into the PC?
  


> So as far as we can tell, *the Corning benefit was all about that extra resistance in the USB ground*. The resistor we chose to use is greater than the 3 ohms John calculated that the Corning inserts, but I’d prefer not to say what value we settled on.
> 
> On my drive home I realized that while we cut the shield with the 6-inch cable, when we first modified the REGEN we did not lift or insert resistance on its input jack shield contacts (virtually all USB hosts and devices end up connecting pin 4 ground to shield at some point), thus some ground currents were finding a path over the shield. I asked John why we still heard such a big difference, and he thinks it is because USBshield wires are far more symmetrical around the +/- data wires and thus they are more equally affected by whatever ground-noise currents and cancel out. I think very few USB cables shield the data wires separate from the power and ground, so the ground wire is not symmetrical about the data lines.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lastly a request for a Coax S/PDIF Regen box - to also deal with the impedance mismatching issues.
  
 Really looking forward to giving them a try!
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip/2670


----------



## Angular Mo

What is the power cable coming from the Anker powering the Regen, please?

That is my missing link, literally.




zilch0md said:


> My latest "transportable" rig:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## zilch0md

angular mo said:


> What is the power cable coming from the Anker powering the Regen, please?
> 
> That is my missing link, literally.


 
  
 That cable is one of two cables included with a linear power supply not shown in the photo - the TeraDak TeraLink X1/X2.
  
 See:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-TeraLink-X1-X2-DC8-5V-1A-USB-DC5V-port-external-Linear-Power-Supply-/301778627741
  
 Mike


----------



## rb2013

Well got the Regen installed  - very nice!  Richer more vivid tonal colors - snappier dynamics. She's a keeper.
  
 First I tried with the LPS TeraDak R-Core SB30W - outstanding!
  
 The with the smaller, cheaper LPS The TeraDak  U-9 or referred to as the X1-X2.  Just a slight drop in the color -and just a tad less sweet sounding.  But a major jump over the SMPS.
  
 Note each of these has a voltage adjustment on the little blue box - the tiny brass screw.  Set both to 7.5VDC - but may try 8.5VCD and 6 VDC just to see if their is a difference in SQ.  Also added a Jitter Bug - another incremental improvement.  Add some more sweetness into the system.  Not as much as the very noticeable Regen but worth keeping.
  
 TeraDak R-core SB30W:

  
 TeraDak X1:

  
 Ordered a second Regen for my other system.


----------



## mscott58

zilch0md said:


> That cable is one of two cables included with a linear power supply not shown in the photo - the TeraDak TeraLink X1/X2.
> 
> See:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-TeraLink-X1-X2-DC8-5V-1A-USB-DC5V-port-external-Linear-Power-Supply-/301778627741
> 
> Mike




You can also buy it off Amazon. Search for StarTech 5V Type M. Cheers


----------



## zilch0md

mscott58 said:


> You can also buy it off Amazon. Search for StarTech 5V Type M. Cheers


 
  
 I think he was asking about this cable:
  

  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-TeraLink-X1-X2-DC8-5V-1A-USB-DC5V-port-external-Linear-Power-Supply-/301778627741


----------



## mscott58

zilch0md said:


> I think he was asking about this cable:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-TeraLink-X1-X2-DC8-5V-1A-USB-DC5V-port-external-Linear-Power-Supply-/301778627741


 
 Ah, sorry about that. But you can still use the USB to DC Type M 5.5mm/2.1mm cable to power the Regen from an external battery. I'll be using the cable to power my Regen from the USB port of my Geek LPS4's 5V output, so I don't use up one of the 12V ports. Cheers


----------



## Angular Mo

mscott58 said:


> Ah, sorry about that. But you can still use the USB to DC Type M 5.5mm/2.1mm cable to power the Regen from an external battery. I'll be using the cable to power my Regen from the USB port of my Geek LPS4's 5V output, so I don't use up one of the 12V ports. Cheers




Thank you


----------



## Angular Mo

angular mo said:


> What is the power cable coming from the Anker powering the Regen, please?
> 
> That is my missing link, literally.





Can the choice of cable out of the Anker make it 6v or 7v ?


----------



## Cornan

Have anyone tried something like this(Elijah Audio)
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




AFTER the Regen and before entering the DAC? Using a USB A male to B male dito of course. This would replace the solid adapter.
Trying to think outside the box!


----------



## rb2013

The Regen is designed to be mounted as closely as possible to the DAC or USB bridge USB port. Uptone put much care in designing the Regen- for exact impedance matching. So they recommend nothing in between but the supplied adapter, for best results.


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> The Regen is designed to be mounted as closely as possible to the DAC or USB bridge USB port. Uptone put much care in designing the Regen- for exact impedance matching. So they recommend nothing in between but the supplied adapter, for best results.



Yes, I know! But this would actually be a solid adapter...just battery powered right before it enters the DAC.  Just imagine the adapter with USB A male to B male instead. Elijah Audio make these by hand I have asked him IF he could make this special one as well. Michael seems very cooprative! 
I have actually asked him for a plain solid adaper (as Regen dito) and a USB A male to A female with blocked 5v pin as well (for use in computer with my Vertere Acoustic USB cable). I will let you know IF he is willing to do them! 

Please note! I am still investigating if adding battery psu on the solid adapter is safe thing to do or not after the Regen. I definately think it could be a good idea but not sure if it will increase sq noticeable or not or if it will cause any other problems at this stage.


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> Yes, I know! But this would actually be a solid adapter...just battery powered right before it enters the DAC.  Just imagine the adapter with USB A male to B male instead. Elijah Audio make these by hand I have asked him IF he could make this special one as well. Michael seems very cooprative!
> I have actually asked him for a plain solid adaper (as Regen dito) and a USB A male to A female with blocked 5v pin as well (for use in computer with my Vertere Acoustic USB cable). I will let you know IF he is willing to do them!
> 
> Please note! I am still investigating if adding battery psu on the solid adapter is safe thing to do or not after the Regen. I definately think it could be a good idea but not sure if it will increase sq noticeable or not or if it will cause any other problems at this stage.




I see, that makes sense. I love the way that the Regen improves the sound, but the way it hangs off the back of my USB bridge on that adapter is kind of sketchy. I'm planning to directly wire the Regen's USB outputs to my DU-U8's USB inputs, using Mundorf solid silver teflon wire. The DU-8 uses AC power so only the datalines are needed. This will bypass any sockets and adapter after the Regen.

Bypassing the Regen USB output power feed will also bypass using it's ultra low noise regulated 5vdc power feed, esp if the Regen is being fed by a decent LPS. I would recommend chucking that SMPS provided, and getting a LPS TeraDak R-Core SB30W. Then the Regen will be providing a very clean power fed to your DDC or DAC.


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I know! But this would actually be a solid adapter...just battery powered right before it enters the DAC.  Just imagine the adapter with USB A male to B male instead. Elijah Audio make these by hand I have asked him IF he could make this special one as well. Michael seems very cooprative!
> ...



Michael at Elijah Audio responded me that he cannot make a solid adapter but requires minimum 5-6cm Mundorf silver/gold wires with silk sleeving between the USB A male and USB B male due to plug configurations. I have asked him how much that would be (without battery cable attached, ie as a hq adapter cable) and are waiting for a reply. I guess using Mundorf silver wires for + and gold wires on - would be a good idea on your interesting project as well? Several others like for example Entreq uses silver/gold wires for a neutral sound.
The solid USB A male to USB A female with blocked 5v pin was USD95 including freight to Sweden BTW. I will order this since it will be a useful adapter (for any USB cable) with the Regen.
I have a KingRex uPower (battery power) that I will use for my Regen when it arrives in November and have no plans to use the original SMPS. Originally thought I could use both the 7,5v and 5v output at the same time...but this was not as simple as I thought as it could potensially damage any connected device in my USB chain..so I will use it for the Regen only. However, I have asked KingRex about it...but still nothing but silence from them. The 5v USB output on the uPower is linear and not switched so it would be nice to use if possible.

You have a very interesting project indeed...but way to advanced for me personally to execute. I wish you all the luck! Do report back IF and when it is all done. Would be interesting to see how it turns out!


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> Michael at Elijah Audio responded me that he cannot make a solid adapter but requires minimum 5-6cm Mundorf silver/gold wires with silk sleeving between the USB A male and USB B male due to plug configurations. I have asked him how much that would be (without battery cable attached, ie as a hq adapter cable) and are waiting for a reply. I guess using Mundorf silver wires for + and gold wires on - would be a good idea on your interesting project as well? Several others like for example Entreq uses silver/gold wires for a neutral sound.
> The solid USB A male to USB A female with blocked 5v pin was USD95 including freight to Sweden BTW. I will order this since it will be a useful adapter (for any USB cable) with the Regen.
> I have a KingRex uPower (battery power) that I will use for my Regen when it arrives in November and have no plans to use the original SMPS. Originally thought I could use both the 7,5v and 5v output at the same time...but this was not as simple as I thought as it could potensially damage any connected device in my USB chain..so I will use it for the Regen only. However, I have asked KingRex about it...but still nothing but silence from them. The 5v USB output on the uPower is linear and not switched so it would be nice to use if possible.
> 
> You have a very interesting project indeed...but way to advanced for me personally to execute. I wish you all the luck! Do report back IF and when it is all done. Would be interesting to see how it turns out!


 

 I may want to order one as well.  I like the idea of the Mundorf silver/gold - I guess he uses the stranded vs soild.  I tend toward the solid to min surface eddy effects - same for the using teflon as dialectic.  Do you know what gauge he uses?
  
 The RexKing is a good PS - that will improve the sound over the SMPS. Use the 7.5VDC connection the Regen has a step down ultra low noise regulator to 5VDC for the USB power lines, and a separate 3.3vdc for the internal clock and reclocking circuit.
  
 I've had great SQ success using external USB bridges to my DACs. In fact, just finishing a 6 external USB bridge shootout.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip.
  
 Report back on your listening results with the custom connector - at $95 not cheap - but if it improves the SQ worth it.

 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

OK second Regen arrived brand new.  Installed this morning in my main system. The used one I bought went into a very nice office second system at work.
  
 Not the big change in SQ I heard in the office system.  Maybe because it's new?  Clocks do need some run in time.  Same DDC but different DACs.  Using the better TeraDak LPS R-Core SB30W set to 7.5 VDC in this main system.  The sound is slightly more detailed but an a slight amount of edge appeared.  I'll try tonight without the JB.  Give it a weeks 24/7 run in then swap with the other one.  To see if it's maybe a variation in devices, a system synergy thing, or just a matter of burnin.


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Michael at Elijah Audio responded me that he cannot make a solid adapter but requires minimum 5-6cm Mundorf silver/gold wires with silk sleeving between the USB A male and USB B male due to plug configurations. I have asked him how much that would be (without battery cable attached, ie as a hq adapter cable) and are waiting for a reply. I guess using Mundorf silver wires for + and gold wires on - would be a good idea on your interesting project as well? Several others like for example Entreq uses silver/gold wires for a neutral sound.
> ...




I have ordered both adapters from Elijah Audio for USD155 including freight. USD75 for the USB A male to A female with 5v block (used at computer) and USD80 for USB A male to B male (no blocks) with Mundorf silver/gold wires and silk sleeves and regular USB plugs. I do not know which gauge he uses...but if you are interested you can e-mail Michael at michael@elijahaudio.com and ask him.

I recently sold my Stello U3. Was pretty happy with it...but wanted to get a different (and more simple) approach when I bought my Pioneer U-05-S, Vertere Acoustic Pulse USB cables, KingRex uPower and Entreq Minimus/Ertha RCA. Just waiting for my new Elijah Adio adapters and the Regen and I am hopefully all done for a while! 

BTW I still have a Aqvox Linear PSU with USB B female to B male plugs. I will try it out after the Regen and before entering the DAC before I descide if I should keep it or not. If it make a good sq improvements I will investigating further if it is possible to safely use the BPM battery PSU from Elijah Audio in the same spot!  

/Micael


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> I have ordered both adapters from Elijah Audio for USD155 including freight. USD75 for the USB A male to A female with 5v block (used at computer) and USD80 for USB A male to B male (no blocks) with Mundorf silver/gold wires and silk sleeves and regular USB plugs. I do not know which gauge he uses...but if you are interested you can e-mail Michael at michael@elijahaudio.com and ask him.
> 
> I recently sold my Stello U3. Was pretty happy with it...but wanted to get a different (and more simple) approach when I bought my Pioneer U-05-S, Vertere Acoustic Pulse USB cables, KingRex uPower and Entreq Minimus/Ertha RCA. Just waiting for my new Elijah Adio adapters and the Regen and I am hopefully all done for a while!
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the email.  Good Luck


----------



## dmbr

Would it make any sense to use the Regen with a iFi iUSB and/or iFi iPurifier? If so, what would be the best order for the chain?


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > I have ordered both adapters from Elijah Audio for USD155 including freight. USD75 for the USB A male to A female with 5v block (used at computer) and USD80 for USB A male to B male (no blocks) with Mundorf silver/gold wires and silk sleeves and regular USB plugs. I do not know which gauge he uses...but if you are interested you can e-mail Michael at michael@elijahaudio.com and ask him.
> ...




You are welcome! Michael at Elijah Audio is a nice guy and extremely service minded. A rare combination nowdays! I will let you know my first impressions as soon as I the adapters and the Regen (mid to end of Nov).
Thanks and good luck with your project as well!


----------



## Cornan

dmbr said:


> Would it make any sense to use the Regen with a iFi iUSB and/or iFi iPurifier? If so, what would be the best order for the chain?




I would say that being senseless is a good approach in hifi!  iPurifier and iUSB is really good hifi gears. Try them senselessly were ever possible and listen with a common sense! You might find it beneficial on spots other don't.


----------



## dmbr

I tried this: 

iFi Mercury USB cable > iFi iUSB > iFi Gemini Dual Headed Cable > iFi Purifier > *Uptone USB Regen *> Xonar Essence One amp/DAC > JRiver (DSPs: Sonarworks calibration VST, Relife VST, 7.1 channel up mixing) Jitterbug in adjacent USB port > Sennheiser HD 800's.

Power Source: iFi power source (forget name), "audiophile" power cable for DAC/amp, outlet has noise cleaner.

To my amazement, each part of the chain improves sound! USB Regen made a very noticeable improvement to separation in particular, the richness/body/clarity of the sounds were better, and it slightly reduced harshness.


My OCD feels satiated...

Oh wait they're updating iFi products? ****.


----------



## rb2013

dmbr said:


> I tried this:
> 
> iFi Mercury USB cable > iFi iUSB > iFi Gemini Dual Headed Cable > iFi Purifier > *Uptone USB Regen *> Xonar Essence One amp/DAC > JRiver (DSPs: Sonarworks calibration VST, Relife VST, 7.1 channel up mixing) Jitterbug in adjacent USB port > Sennheiser HD 800's.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice post!  Yes here comes the $400 iFi iUSB 3.0!
  
 I'm hearing similar things as you are.  Funny in each of my systems a difference in magnitude of improvements so far.  As in many things audio - synergies.  In my office system - the sound with the Regen is extraordinary:
  
 Custom PCserver>Silnote Poseidon USB cable>Regen/LPS TeraDak SB30>Breeze Audio DU-U8>Audio Sens Ref Silver S/PDIF coax cable>highly modded R2R DAC60.
  
The DAC60 on one power filter using both Common Mode and Differential Mode topologies in series.  The DU-U8 and the Regen LPS on a separate line also with both Common Mode and Differential Mode topologies in series for power filtering.  Shunyata PC's on the DAC, DDC, and Regen LPS.
  
List of extensive mods on the true R2R tubed DAC60:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/740362/lite-dac60-pcm1704-r2r-tubed-dac-mod-project
  
 I feel your _Audionervosa _pain!
  
  
 Are you powering the Regen with the SMPS?
  
 The second Regen is already smoothing out  - so not surprising they need a bit of run time straight out of the box.
  
 My next experiment will be 2 Regens back to back.  Then some modding of the LPS TeraDak R-Core SB30W feeding the Regen.  Better PS caps to start.


----------



## cradon

How much run time/burn-in?


----------



## dmbr

rb2013 said:


> I see, that makes sense. I love the way that the Regen improves the sound, but the way it hangs off the back of my USB bridge on that adapter is kind of sketchy. I'm planning to directly wire the Regen's USB outputs to my DU-U8's USB inputs, using Mundorf solid silver teflon wire. The DU-8 uses AC power so only the datalines are needed. This will bypass any sockets and adapter after the Regen.
> 
> Bypassing the Regen USB output power feed will also bypass using it's ultra low noise regulated 5vdc power feed, esp if the Regen is being fed by a decent LPS. I would recommend chucking that SMPS provided, and getting a LPS TeraDak R-Core SB30W. Then the Regen will be providing a very clean power fed to your DDC or DAC.




Where might I buy one? Can't seem to find any 

And how might it compare to iFi iPower (Which I'm using with iUSB)?


While it's quite satisfying to find these products improve my setup's SQ so dramatically, what I take away from this is how absolutely terrible USB is for audio.

 Over $1,000 to fix its deficiencies--is there no better way? :/

Anyway, I'll be experimenting with my chain ordering and report back with any discoveries.

The USB cable that comes with the Regen looks sketchy, so I'm also thinking of using another iFi Mercury as the first cable between the iUSB and my PC's USB port (the final cable between the Regen and DAC is where I have my current Mercury in the chain). Overkill?


----------



## dmbr

Oops got my chain wrong xD

*Audioquest Forest USB cable* > iFi iUSB > iFi Gemini Dual Headed Cable > iFi Purifier > Uptone USB Regen > *iFi Mercury USB cable* > Xonar Essence One amp/DAC > JRiver (DSPs: Sonarworks calibration VST, Relife VST, 7.1 channel up mixing) + Jitterbug in adjacent USB port (_using the JB in the chain only thins out the bass_) > Sennheiser HD 800's.


_Not_:
*iFi Mercury USB cable* > iFi iUSB > iFi Gemini Dual Headed Cable > iFi Purifier > Uptone USB Regen > Xonar Essence One amp/DAC > JRiver (DSPs: Sonarworks calibration VST, Relife VST, 7.1 channel up mixing) Jitterbug in adjacent USB port > Sennheiser HD 800's.

So I'll be replacing the audioquest cable with a Mercury.


----------



## Luckbad

dmbr

I'm a big fan of the Regen and all, but I can't help but think: wow, this guy has spent Summit-Fi level money on his setup and is still using a mid-fi+ amp/dac.

The Asus is good, but you can get much better with what you've spent trying to fix the USB signal going into it (plus the cost of the Essence).

USB purifiers and the like do less than a great amp and dac would.


----------



## dmbr

luckbad said:


> dmbr
> 
> I'm a big fan of the Regen and all, but I can't help but think: wow, this guy has spent Summit-Fi level money on his setup and is still using a mid-fi+ amp/dac.
> 
> ...


 Trust me, it's occurred to me. I sort of just got sucked down the rabbit hole on this one--smaller purchases over time are more manageable on my budget, and I just got fascinated by how far USB tweaks could improve SQ.

My next purchase will be an HDVD800. But...yeah, gotta save up for that one.

In all honesty though, my setup sounds divine and even a DAC twice the cost of my current one is going to be limited by the law of diminishing returns regardless...but you know, I'm an audiophile; the quest never ends.


----------



## Luckbad

dmbr said:


> Trust me, it's occurred to me. I sort of just got sucked down the rabbit hole on this one--smaller purchases over time are more manageable on my budget, and I just got fascinated by how far USB tweaks could improve SQ.
> 
> My next purchase will be an HDVD800. But...yeah, gotta save up for that one.


 
  
 On the plus side, your USB going into anything new is gonna be awesome! You just did it in a different order than most of us.


----------



## dmbr

luckbad said:


> dmbr
> 
> I'm a big fan of the Regen and all, but I can't help but think: wow, this guy has spent Summit-Fi level money on his setup and is still using a mid-fi+ amp/dac.
> 
> ...


 By the way, when you called the Asus "mid-grade" did you note that was the Muses Edition?

I believe used sells for ~$1000 ($250 less than an used HDVD 800).


----------



## Luckbad

dmbr said:


> By the way, when you called the Asus "mid-grade" did you note that was the Muses Edition?
> 
> I believe used sells for ~$1000 ($250 less than an used HDVD 800).


 
  
 Mid-Fi+ I called it! It might be worth calling it Hi-Fi, just not Summit-Fi. The amp section is what makes it not Hi-Fi, in my opinion. It has a pretty solid dac but the amp is just good.


----------



## dmbr

luckbad said:


> Mid-Fi+ I called it! It might be worth calling it Hi-Fi, just not Summit-Fi. The amp section is what makes it not Hi-Fi, in my opinion. It has a pretty solid dac but the amp is just good.


 Hm, I see.

What would you say the Asus' amp would be priced based on its quality if sold alone? That is, any idea how much I'd have to pay to upgrade the amp?

Thanks for being so helpful man!


----------



## Cornan

dmbr said:


> luckbad said:
> 
> 
> > Mid-Fi+ I called it! It might be worth calling it Hi-Fi, just not Summit-Fi. The amp section is what makes it not Hi-Fi, in my opinion. It has a pretty solid dac but the amp is just good.
> ...


 
 IMHO there is nothing wrong with the Xonar Essence One Muses Edition. I see no reason why you should´nt be happy with it.


----------



## rb2013

cradon said:


> How much run time/burn-in?


 
 The new Regen is already smoother out quite a bit after 48 hrs - usually 100 hrs is the norm in my experience with a dozen or USB bridges.  Time for the clock crystals to settle in and the other small components - like the regulators.  That small hint of edge is gone.  Another factor - most audio gear (esp Class A amps - 'some like it hot') like to be warmed up to sound best.
  


dmbr said:


> Where might I buy one? Can't seem to find any
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I don't think the iUSB 3.0 is up for sale yet - but could be wrong.
  
 I just posted this on my Gustard U12 thread - which has turned into a USB bridge rolling thread:


> Yes the Hydra Z fed with a LPS.  I don't have the DIXO yet.  The Gustard and Melodious with upgraded caps.  Will write it up once I've had a chance to try the DIXO.  I won't be getting the DI-2014 or PUC2 lite or the Tanly (this looks like a great unit) at this point.  Maybe down the road to face off against my DIY USB bridge project.
> Just to bring it back to the beginning and the reason for the thread - stock U12 beat these other USB bridges I had: "3 different John Kenny's, M2Tech Highface and Evo (Evo fed by a LPS), Audiophilleo 2, Musiland 02 and Musiland USB 3.0 USD."
> 
> So as they say you've come a long way baby!  Exceeding my original expectations by miles.  My very nice analog gear is going up for sale - that's how good this is sounding.
> ...


 
  
 So for me an pretty dedicated audio nut - this has been money well spent.


----------



## rb2013

luckbad said:


> @dmbr
> 
> I'm a big fan of the Regen and all, but I can't help but think: wow, this guy has spent Summit-Fi level money on his setup and is still using a mid-fi+ amp/dac.
> 
> ...


 

 I think for the same money as the Asus a Schiit Gumby + Lyr2 would be a huge advance.  Not summit by any std  - but at least above the treeline.


----------



## hifimanrookie

Anyone knows when the new regen comes with the improved powersupply? Am waiting for that version


----------



## Superdad

hifimanrookie said:


> Anyone knows when the new regen comes with the improved powersupply? Am waiting for that version


 
  
  
 There really is no reason to wait as our radical new mystery supply will be sold both as a separate product and as an add-on to a REGEN kit.  Below is a repost of an update I made in the thread about the new LPS, detailing how it will be sold.  The SMPS that presently comes with the REGEN will become the "energizing" supply for the new DC>DC supply (but it is NOT a battery supply!).
  
Alright, guess it is time for an official update on the mystery piece:
  
John and I recently made some heavy technical decisions on the development of our new supply (the whole thing really is a mind-blower and even has an FPGA in it) so that the "brains" of it can be used and scaled in multiple ways--for both licensing to other manufacturers, DIY, and vastly higher amperage versions (such high-amperage versions would not be for at least another year and the first of such will likely be a good bit more expensive than a JS-2--so don't stop ordering JS-2s!).  *So the release of the affordable, 1A, 5/7V version--for REGEN and other uses--has been delayed until very early 2016. *
Given the nature of what we are attempting, it is better to do it right than to do it fast. Still, John is working furiously (but happily) on it many hours per week. It is just that PCB turn-around time, coding, testing, etc. all make the weeks roll by.

With regards the selling plan: The new supply (think I even posted a picture of the case upthread somewhere) will initially be sold 3 ways (but the unit itself is always exactly the same): 

1)* As a complete and usable by anyone product*--needing a selectable 5V/1A, 7V/1A--kit with a 12V/1.5A SMPS "energizing" unit;

2) *As an add-on for people who already have a REGEN* and will use the 7.5V/2.93A SMPS that came with the REGEN to "energize" the new supply (Or for those who have some other suitable LPS or SMPS they wish to feed it--12V/1.5A, 9V/2A, or 7.5V/2.5A min.; remember, the "energizing" supply will have ZERO effect on the final output, but if the rest of your system does not like SMPS harmonics injecting into the mains then an LPS could be chosen--LPSs, unless choke-filtered, also kick crap back into the wall--just at much lower frequencies.)

3) *As a bundle with a REGEN*, in which case the powering SMPS is likely to be an easier to source and perhaps slightly small 12V/1.5A unit.

Variations "2)" and "3)" will offer a modest savings since one less SMPS need be shipped.

And all versions will come with a 70cm, 16awg coax with 5.5mm x 2.1mm plugs at both ends. This is a custom cable I had 1,000 units made of--and with a right-angle plug at one end per some requests. Here is a pic:


 Hope that helps a bit.  Oh, and here is a pic of a REGEN sitting on top of the enclosure that the mystery LPS will come in: 
 (note that the front/back panels have not been machine or silkscreened yet, this is just a sample box from my Japanese enclosure supplier)
  


 Best,
 --Alex C.
 UpTone Audio LLC


----------



## Chikolad

Exciting!


----------



## mscott58

Alex - Any estimate on a price range for this thing? The Regen is such a good deal, hope the power-thingy (sorry for the technical talk) continues this tradition. Cheers


----------



## Superdad

mscott58 said:


> Alex - Any estimate on a price range for this thing? The Regen is such a good deal, hope the power-thingy (sorry for the technical talk) continues this tradition. Cheers


 

 Really can't estimate price until the build cost is nailed down.  When one is trying to make an affordable product with a lot of parts it is best not to try to guess.  It is one thing if designing a product selling for thousands to absorb slight pricing errors, but a few dollars cost in either direction can make a difference when trying to price in the thin margin territory.


----------



## mscott58

superdad said:


> Really can't estimate price until the build cost is nailed down.  When one is trying to make an affordable product with a lot of parts it is best not to try to guess.  It is one thing if designing a product selling for thousands to absorb slight pricing errors, but a few dollars cost in either direction can make a difference when trying to price in the thin margin territory.


 
 Totally understand. Have been in product development myself, so felt a bit guilty even asking. 
  
 Keep up the good work.


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> There really is no reason to wait as our radical new mystery supply will be sold both as a separate product and as an add-on to a REGEN kit.  Below is a repost of an update I made in the thread about the new LPS, detailing how it will be sold.  The SMPS that presently comes with the REGEN will become the "energizing" supply for the new DC>DC supply (but it is NOT a battery supply!).
> 
> Alright, guess it is time for an official update on the mystery piece:
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the update - very exciting!  You guys are certainly on the cutting edge.  I'm sensing the use of super or ultra capacitors by the term 'energizing'.
  
 Audiobyte has a 5VDC version for their excellent Hydra Z - from what I hear it's pretty amazing sounding - but not cheap.
  
 Hydra ZPM: http://audiobyte.net/products/hydra-zpm

 http://www.maxwell.com/images/documents/Ultracapacitors_Overview_Flyer_3000615-2EN.pdf


----------



## mscott58

rb2013 said:


> Thanks for the update - very exciting!  You guys are certainly on the cutting edge.  I'm sensing the use of super or ultra capacitors by the term 'energizing'.
> 
> Audiobyte has a 5VDC version for their excellent Hydra Z - from what I hear it's pretty amazing sounding - but not cheap.
> 
> ...


 
 Seems like an educated guess! Vinnie uses the super/ultra capacitors in his latest device as well.


----------



## Angular Mo

dmbr said:


> I tried this:
> 
> iFi Mercury USB cable > iFi iUSB > iFi Gemini Dual Headed Cable > iFi Purifier > *Uptone USB Regen *> Xonar Essence One amp/DAC > JRiver (DSPs: Sonarworks calibration VST, Relife VST, 7.1 channel up mixing) Jitterbug in adjacent USB port > Sennheiser HD 800's.
> 
> ...


 
 thank you for the suggestions


----------



## rb2013

mscott58 said:


> Seems like an educated guess! Vinnie uses the super/ultra capacitors in his latest device as well.


 

 Vinnie from? Do you have a link?


----------



## rb2013

So my 'new' Regen has a few days on it so I decided to give it a serious listen.
  
 Did an extensive 4 hr listening session last night. In my big main system the Regen actually hurt the sound! It added some edginess, bleached out some of the tonal color and robbed some of the bass. So I tried w/o the jitterbug, still the same but slightly worse. Removed the Regen and kept the JB - WOW! I mean truly incredible!
 And this is with the Regen being fed from the LPS TeraDak R-Core SB30W set to 7.5VDC - that worked so well in my office system.
  
 With just the Audio Breeze DU-U8 (this is one killer good DDC) and the JB.  Listening to my review tracks like the whole Florence and the Machine 'Lungs' album - I heard things I have never heard before. Amazingly rich tone - and the best another octave of bass. The bass had an immediacy to it - perfect pitch - but just gut shaking depth. The focus and clarity of the sound stage was the best yet and the depth of sound field projection - jaw dropping. The 5ft tall Magger 1/6qr's never sounded better!
  
 So I think the Regen is very system dependent - as it had a very positive effect in my other system. It does cast some doubts on their theories though.
  
 Tonight I'll try and switch them - maybe it's a bad unit I just received?  In my office system I do have separate PS filters on my DAC and the DU-U8 and the TeraDak LPS feeding the Regen.  Could it be that the Regen needs to be on a separate filtered power line from the DAC?  I doubt that would account for the differing results.  More likely it's a synergy thing with the entire source chain.
  
 Really scratching my head on this one - never had this happen before in 30yrs of high end audio.
  
 PS- The closest I guess would be Cart/tonearm compliance mis-matching.  An early mistake I made beginning in Analog.


----------



## mscott58

rb2013 said:


> Vinnie from? Do you have a link?


 
 Sorry, Vinnie Rossi, formerly of Red Wine Audio, now at Vinnie Rossi Audio. His "LIO" system uses ultra capacitors (and a lot of them). Here's the link - http://vinnierossi.com/lio-technology/
  
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

mscott58 said:


> Sorry, Vinnie Rossi, formerly of Red Wine Audio, now at Vinnie Rossi Audio. His "LIO" system uses ultra capacitors (and a lot of them). Here's the link - http://vinnierossi.com/lio-technology/
> 
> Cheers


 

 Oh yes - nice stuff - I like the modular concept.
  
 Thanks


----------



## mscott58

rb2013 said:


> Oh yes - nice stuff - I like the modular concept.
> 
> Thanks


 
 With that bank of ultra-capacitors you could probably weld with it...


----------



## rb2013

mscott58 said:


> With that bank of ultra-capacitors you could probably weld with it...


 

 Over on my Gustard U12 thread we had tired to build a DIY version of the ZPM.  Not easy to work with those UC's.  Difficult to design a charging circuit - at least according Alex - our resident design expert.
  
 Audiobyte charges like $400 for the ZPM.


----------



## mscott58

rb2013 said:


> Over on my Gustard U12 thread we had tired to build a DIY version of the ZPM.  Not easy to work with those UC's.  Difficult to design a charging circuit - at least according Alex - our resident design expert.
> 
> Audiobyte charges like $400 for the ZPM.


 
 Yep. Vinnie's good at that stuff.
  
 And speaking of welding, I think in Stereophile a while back they actually did take a 1000W amp and weld two pieces of metal together. Crazy.


----------



## rb2013

mscott58 said:


> Yep. Vinnie's good at that stuff.
> 
> And speaking of welding, I think in Stereophile a while back they actually did take a 1000W amp and weld two pieces of metal together. Crazy.


 

 LOL!  The absurdity of audio extremes!  Who would need a 1000 Watt Amp.  I visited a local stereo shop - a Krell dealer and he was delivering a pair of monster Krell mono blocks that needed a fork lift! 
  
 Or Ted at SR and his 2 million volt Tesla coil!


----------



## dmbr

did a lot fiddling with the chain; had the best luck with having the Regen at the beginning:

Audioquest Forest USB cable > Uptone USB Regen > iFi Mercury USB cable > > iFi iUSB > iFi Gemini Dual Headed Cable > iFi iPurifier > Xonar Essence One amp/DAC > JRiver (DSPs: Sonarworks calibration VST, Relife VST, 7.1 channel up mixing) + Jitterbug in adjacent USB port (_using the JB in the chain only thins out the bass_) > Sennheiser HD 800's.


----------



## Cornan

I would suggest that you remove the AQ Forest from the chain and try this setup if you have'nt tried it yet:

iFi Mercury USB cable > iFi iUSB > iFi Gemini Dual Headed Cable > USB Regen > Regens solid adapter > iFi iPurifier > Xonar Essence One amp/DAC > JRiver (DSPs: Sonarworks calibration VST, Relife VST, 7.1 channel up mixing) + Jitterbug in adjacent USB port (using the JB in the chain only thins out the bass) > Sennheiser HD 800's.

Make sure to detune the center silencers on both iFI USB cables each time you make a change.


----------



## dmbr

cornan said:


> I would suggest that you remove the AQ Forest from the chain and try this setup if you have'nt tried it yet:
> 
> iFi Mercury USB cable > iFi iUSB > iFi Gemini Dual Headed Cable > USB Regen > Regens solid adapter > iFi iPurifier > Xonar Essence One amp/DAC > JRiver (DSPs: Sonarworks calibration VST, Relife VST, 7.1 channel up mixing) + Jitterbug in adjacent USB port (using the JB in the chain only thins out the bass) > Sennheiser HD 800's.
> 
> Make sure to detune the center silencers on both iFI USB cables each time you make a change.


 
 Wow! Bingo!
  
 I did actually try that configuration previously, but I must have just gotten lost in the others and forgotten which one really hit the spot. That's it.
  
 Thanks man


----------



## zilch0md

Spoiler: Previous posts...






dmbr said:


> did a lot fiddling with the chain; had the best luck with having the Regen at the beginning:
> 
> Audioquest Forest USB cable > Uptone USB Regen > iFi Mercury USB cable > > iFi iUSB > iFi Gemini Dual Headed Cable > iFi iPurifier > Xonar Essence One amp/DAC > JRiver (DSPs: Sonarworks calibration VST, Relife VST, 7.1 channel up mixing) + Jitterbug in adjacent USB port (_using the JB in the chain only thins out the bass_) > Sennheiser HD 800's.


 
  
  


cornan said:


> I would suggest that you remove the AQ Forest from the chain and try this setup if you have'nt tried it yet:
> 
> iFi Mercury USB cable > iFi iUSB > iFi Gemini Dual Headed Cable > USB Regen > Regens solid adapter > iFi iPurifier > Xonar Essence One amp/DAC > JRiver (DSPs: Sonarworks calibration VST, Relife VST, 7.1 channel up mixing) + Jitterbug in adjacent USB port (using the JB in the chain only thins out the bass) > Sennheiser HD 800's.
> 
> Make sure to detune the center silencers on both iFI USB cables each time you make a change.


 
  



dmbr said:


> Wow! Bingo!
> 
> I did actually try that configuration previously, but I must have just gotten lost in the others and forgotten which one really hit the spot. That's it.
> 
> Thanks man





  
 Congratulations dmbr! 
  
 I think the most potent element in Cornan's insightful recommendation to change from this...
  
  
Audioquest Forest USB cable > Uptone USB Regen > iFi Mercury USB cable > iFi iUSB > iFi Gemini Dual Headed Cable > iFi iPurifier > Xonar Essence One amp/DAC > JRiver (DSPs: Sonarworks calibration VST, Relife VST, 7.1 channel up mixing) + Jitterbug in adjacent USB port (_using the JB in the chain only thins out the bass_) > Sennheiser HD 800's.
  
  
 ... to this...
  
  
iFi Mercury USB cable > iFi iUSB > iFi Gemini Dual Headed Cable > USB Regen > Regens solid adapter > iFi iPurifier > Xonar Essence One amp/DAC > JRiver (DSPs: Sonarworks calibration VST, Relife VST, 7.1 channel up mixing) + Jitterbug in adjacent USB port (using the JB in the chain only thins out the bass) > Sennheiser HD 800's.
  
  
 ... was getting the USB Regen closer to the DAC.  John Swenson and Alex Crespi habitually remind people to keep the path between the USB Regen and the DAC as short as possible.
  
  
 I'd be curious to try tweaking this a bit further by moving the iFi Purifier somewhere ahead of the USB Regen or removing it altogether, letting your ears be the judge, of course.
  
 Mike


----------



## Cornan

zilch0md said:


> Spoiler: Previous posts...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Totally agree Mike!
 Except removing the iPurifier I would also try to remove the 5v power cable of the Gemini Dual headed USB cable from the iUSB. It could potentially improve things (or even try without Dual Gemini and iUSB as well). Worth checking out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Selling off the iUSB and dual Gemini cable should be enough for a good psu for the USB Regen. Just a tip!


----------



## dmbr

Ha! Did some more experimenting and this configuration outshines all the rest in vividness and separation in particular--the Regen is surprisingly second in the chain.

iFi Mercury USB cable > Uptone Regen > iFi iUSB > iFi Gemini Dual USB cable > iFi Purifier > Xonar Essence One Muses Edition

My theory is that the iPurifier's power-cleaning properties make it best for the end of the chain. As to why the Regen sounds better placed before the iUSB, since they're both independently powered perhaps the iUSB does a better job of this?

Regardless, I've settled on the above ordering quite happily.


----------



## Cornan

dmbr said:


> Ha! Did some more experimenting and this configuration outshines all the rest in vividness and separation in particular--the Regen is surprisingly second in the chain.
> 
> iFi Mercury USB cable > Uptone Regen > iFi iUSB > iFi Gemini Dual USB cable > iFi Purifier > Xonar Essence One Muses Edition
> 
> ...




That is the right spirit! A curious mind is your ears best friend.  Other people can only suggest things according to their own experiance. But in the end it is your own ears that knows best what will work for you. I am happy for you!


----------



## dmbr

cornan said:


> That is the right spirit! A curious mind is your ears best friend.  Other people can only suggest things according to their own experiance. But in the end it is your own ears that knows best what will work for you. I am happy for you!


 Thanks! 

Feels very satisfying to solve the puzzle and be rewarded with cans that absolutely sing now 

By the way, I'd be quite interested in any theorizing as to why such a chain might sound best!


----------



## Cornan

dmbr said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > That is the right spirit! A curious mind is your ears best friend.  Other people can only suggest things according to their own experiance. But in the end it is your own ears that knows best what will work for you. I am happy for you!
> ...




Well, in theory it should sound better with dual Gemini in computer without the power cable attached. Other end (data only) going directly to USB Regen connected to DAC with Regens solid adapter. But then again it is up to your own ears what sounds best.
The reason why your current chain sounds best is most likely (but without knowing) due to the iUSB and iPurifier cleaning the data signal in a way that you like.


----------



## preproman

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?18580-Science-Thread-Review-of-Audioquest-Jitterbug-and-Uptone-Regen-USB-Conditioners
  
 Any thoughts?


----------



## dmbr

cornan said:


> Well, in theory it should sound better with dual Gemini in computer without the power cable attached. Other end (data only) going directly to USB Regen connected to DAC with Regens solid adapter. But then again it is up to your own ears what sounds best.
> The reason why your current chain sounds best is most likely (but without knowing) due to the iUSB and iPurifier cleaning the data signal in a way that you like.


 Interesting, I haven't tried that configuration! Thank you.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean though, could you elaborate on connecting the Gemini to the computer without the power cable attached? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that.

Once I understand, I'll give it a go and report back


----------



## Cornan

dmbr said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Well, in theory it should sound better with dual Gemini in computer without the power cable attached. Other end (data only) going directly to USB Regen connected to DAC with Regens solid adapter. But then again it is up to your own ears what sounds best.
> ...


 

There is two wires on the dual Gemini. One with a battery symbol on the USB and one with a music note symbol on the USB. Attach only the music note symbol USB to your computer. The other end only have one wire that you connect to the Regen. The Regen will feed new power to your DAC. The only thing you will gain in theory is not having any power wires side-by-side in the lenght of the Gemini cable. Give it a try and use what sounds best to you.


----------



## dmbr

cornan said:


> There is two wires on the dual Gemini. One with a battery symbol on the USB and one with a music note symbol on the USB. Attach only the music note symbol USB to your computer. The other end only have one wire that you connect to the Regen. The Regen will feed new power to your DAC. The only thing you will gain in theory is not having any power wires side-by-side in the lenght of the Gemini cable. Give it a try and use what sounds best to you.


 Ah, I see.

So I'm to cut out the iUSB and iPurifier from the chain entirely then?

And why use the Gemini instead of the Mercury?

Sorry to ask so many questions. Much appreciation


----------



## Cornan

dmbr said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > There is two wires on the dual Gemini. One with a battery symbol on the USB and one with a music note symbol on the USB. Attach only the music note symbol USB to your computer. The other end only have one wire that you connect to the Regen. The Regen will feed new power to your DAC. The only thing you will gain in theory is not having any power wires side-by-side in the lenght of the Gemini cable. Give it a try and use what sounds best to you.
> ...




Correct! Mercury have single wire with both power and data side-by-side in the cable. Gemini separate these and therefore it could potensially improve performance IF you do not connect the powered USB cable. One one way to find out though. Just try it and hear IF you like the change or not. Not saying this will be most siutable for you. Just saying it would reduce the noise produced by the power wire being close to the data wire (in the cable only. Nothing to do with Regen..except that it supplies new clean power) in theory...and potensially better SQ. Check it and let me know IF you like it or not!


----------



## Luckbad

preproman said:


> http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?18580-Science-Thread-Review-of-Audioquest-Jitterbug-and-Uptone-Regen-USB-Conditioners
> 
> Any thoughts?




While interesting and appreciated, he's not necessarily using professional level measurement devices, practices, and methodologies. Results are almost guaranteed to be misleading.

I do appreciate the attempt to objectively quantify results, though.

The only thing I'm absolutely certain of with the Regen is that I used to get clicks, stutters, or dropouts occasionally on my work setup. With the Regen, I never do. It objectively improves that one egregious issue I was having.


----------



## rb2013

luckbad said:


> While interesting and appreciated, he's not necessarily using professional level measurement devices, practices, and methodologies. Results are almost guaranteed to be misleading.
> 
> I do appreciate the attempt to objectively quantify results, though.
> 
> The only thing I'm absolutely certain of with the Regen is that I used to get clicks, stutters, or dropouts occasionally on my work setup. With the Regen, I never do. It objectively improves that one egregious issue I was having.


 

 On one system same here - the occasional unlocks are gone - and the tone is more vivid in color.  Dynamics snappier too.  But in my other system a LPS fed Regen added some edge and no improvement at all - a step backward.


----------



## foreverzer0

rb2013 said:


> On one system same here - the occasional unlocks are gone - and the tone is more vivid in color.  Dynamics snappier too.  But in my other system a LPS fed Regen added some edge and no improvement at all - a step backward.


 
  
 I've heard even the regen needs some burn-in time to hit it's stride.


----------



## rb2013

foreverzer0 said:


> I've heard even the regen needs some burn-in time to hit it's stride.


 

 Yeah the newer one has 125 hrs and the other 200+.  I tried the more seasoned one in my main system  - same result - added some edginess to the sound.  Better without it.  Used the same LPS in both places.
  
 Those crystals and caps do need some burnin time, as do the caps in the LPS.


----------



## rb2013

Have a Wryed For Sound Remedy on the way.  This is a Regen for the S/PDIF coax.  One advantage of S/PDIF is it can provide the clock signal.  The Remedy reclocks the S/PDIF coax with a femto clock Crystek CCHD-957 that the DAC then slaves to. Also has it's power completely separate from the DAC or DDC - in my case it would be powered with use the linear power supply TeraDak R-Core SB30W run at 9VDC.
  
 I will try it connected to the DDC DU-U8 S/PDIF coax with one of these. Then at the back of the DAC to see which sounds best.

  
  
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/wyred/1.html
  
 So here is the chain:  PC (LPS)>JitterBug USB>Silnote Poseidon USB (or Forza Split)>Regen or not depending on which system (TeraDak LPS)>DU-U8(Cerious Extreme Black PC/ PB4x4Pro PS filtering)>Audio Sens Silver Ref 1.5M SPDIF coax cable>Wryed Remedy(TeraDak LPS)>Viablue>Modded DAC60 (or APL NWOjr).


----------



## rb2013

OK the Wyred for Sound Remedy came in today - with the enclosed SMPS - a modest improvement on the scale of a Jitterbug.
  
 Now using a LPS TeraDak R-Core DC-30W set to 9 VDC into the Remedy - a whole other ball game!  Wow - bigger or at least the same improvement as the Regen/LPS.
  
 Right now the ViaBlue Male to Male RCA connector has not come in so just using a cheapo Best Buy AR digital cable between the Remedy and the modded DAC60.
  
 The heavily modded tubed DAC60 already had excellent tone and musical ease.  That got even smoother - but with even crisper dynamics and greater detail.  Truly organic and holographic instrument presentation.  Really nice.
  
 I bought mine on Audiogon for $325 - like new (so maybe the Remedy's femto, ultra low phase noise Crystek CCHD-957 clocks needs some more run time).  New they're $399.
  
 Not cheap - but so far - for me worth the cost.  Tomorrow I'll try it on the big system.
  
 Just getting better and better.  Putting my prized modded Jolida JD-9 (Mundorf Supreme Silver/Oil caps and Tele 12AX7 smoothplates)  phono pre up for sale - no longer need my analog system.


----------



## Beolab

Got the following combination: 

Abyss headphones

Chord Hugo Black

BlueSound Node II MQA ready

Audioquest Diamond Spdif Coax - BNC

W4s Remedy Re-Clocker with the Crystek CCHD-957 femto clock for Spidif use with aftermarket upgraded 9v switching power supply with ultra low ripple effect. 

Regen with Iphone 5s - Onkyo HF Player - CCK - AQ Diamond silver USB with the same 9 volt switching power supply, and i felt the sound even more revolving and outputs a slight more visceral bass at most of the tracks than the Remedy + BlueSound combo using Tidal or HD tracks . 

Do you guys think i would get even more performance if i set the power supply to 7,5 volts instead of 9 v ?


----------



## rb2013

beolab said:


> Got the following combination:
> 
> Abyss headphones
> 
> ...


 

 No the Remedy needs 9VDC.  But the improvement by using a high quality LPS like the TeraDak R-Core DC30W is night and day from the SPMS wall wart. 
 A bigger improvement then the Regen with a 7.5VDC LPS vs it's SMPS - although that too was a nice improvement.
  
 It does make sense - the Remedy has a very sensitive femto, ultra low phase noise CCHD-957 clock.  That needs to be fed by the cleanest power available.  Would love to hear it with an Uptone JS-2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 

  
 Did a fairly critical listening session on my main system last night - the Remedy/LPS did improve the SQ, but not nearly to the degree it did in my office system.  In this main system the Regen actually added a bit of edginess and brightness to the sound.  Where as in my office system the Regen was excellent.
  
 Funny the Jitterbug was a nice incremental improvement in both systems.
  
 Anyway, I'll be listing the second Regen (about 150 hrs) in the classifieds later today.  PM if interested and you want to jump the line for December delivery.


----------



## Beolab

rb2013 said:


> No the Remedy needs 9VDC.  But the improvement by using a high quality LPS like the TeraDak R-Core DC30W is night and day from the SPMS wall wart.
> A bigger improvement then the Regen with a 7.5VDC LPS vs it's SMPS - although that too was a nice improvement.
> 
> It does make sense - the Remedy has a very sensitive femto, ultra low phase noise CCHD-957 clock.  That needs to be fed by the cleanest power available.  Would love to hear it with an Uptone JS-2.
> ...




Cool! 

I ment 9volt for the Regen or is it better with 7,5 volt for it  ?


----------



## rb2013

beolab said:


> Cool!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well according to Uptone the Regen can handle 9VDC but only if it's not powering a DAC or USB DDC.  In other words running the datalines only.  It may still over heat the linear regulators in hot weather - they do not have heat sinks.
  
 Best to stay in the 7-8 VDC range.  The TeraDaks generally have voltage adjusters.


----------



## dmbr

cornan said:


> There is two wires on the dual Gemini. One with a battery symbol on the USB and one with a music note symbol on the USB. Attach only the music note symbol USB to your computer. The other end only have one wire that you connect to the Regen. The Regen will feed new power to your DAC. The only thing you will gain in theory is not having any power wires side-by-side in the lenght of the Gemini cable. Give it a try and use what sounds best to you.


 Well, I have no idea why, but I've decided I prefer the old

Mercury > Regen > iUSB > Gemini > iPurifier > DAC

to

Gemini > Regen > DAC

They both sound great, but the first is a bit more clear and crystalline with more separation, while the Regen + Gemini is softer--less "harsh" but less definition.

Baffling, but I've just got to go with my ear instead of what makes sense! Audiophile voodoo in action


----------



## Cornan

dmbr said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > There is two wires on the dual Gemini. One with a battery symbol on the USB and one with a music note symbol on the USB. Attach only the music note symbol USB to your computer. The other end only have one wire that you connect to the Regen. The Regen will feed new power to your DAC. The only thing you will gain in theory is not having any power wires side-by-side in the lenght of the Gemini cable. Give it a try and use what sounds best to you.
> ...




That is perfectly alright! It is not me or anyone else that can descide what you prefer...just give you tips about what to try! I am truly happy that you have found out your prefered Audio chain. Enjoy!


----------



## dmbr

cornan said:


> That is perfectly alright! It is not me or anyone else that can descide what you prefer...just give you tips about what to try! I am truly happy that you have found out your prefered Audio chain. Enjoy!


 Thanks! Again, appreciate your helpfulness


----------



## coolmingli

I tried the Regen tonight, I couldn't get it to work with foobar2000, I got error messages of "object not found", I guess foobar couldn't detect my DAC(UM PP6) with Regen been attached, I tried ASIO, WASAPI, DS with no luck, anyone using the Regen with foobar?
  
 The Regen works flawlessly with MusicBee, and I can tell it makes differences, I have some very familiar songs I use to compare devices, I will report back when I have more listening time, so far the experience is very positive, Regen makes song tracks darker and cleaner, this is most obvious with some so so recordings, It also works well with my Android tablet.
  
 Now only if I can make it work with Foobar2000....... anyone?


----------



## rb2013

Try reinstalling your USB drivers with the Regen connected. That worked for me.


----------



## Cornan

Finally got my USB Regen today and installed my two Elijah Audio adapters (1xUSB A female to male w/blocked 5v pin and 1xUSB A male to B male w/6cm Mundorf gold silver wires) and connected the KingRex uPower to power the USB Regen. Everything works like a charm and sounds really good. Noticed that the sound does'nt jump in your face...but slowly grows on you. I will need some more time to fully evaluate the improvements...but it is definately a keeper and a sound that talkes music language. More goose bumps and tapping toes. Love it! 

Here is some pictures. No good pictures I am afraid...but hopefully good enough to see!


----------



## Lohb

Just searched the thread for microstreamer before asking..., is anyone using it with HRT microStreamer currently ?


----------



## JJaudio

I am trying to connect the Regen to the USB in on the front of a OPPO 105, I can connect the jitterbug and the OPPO will see my memory stick or phone connected to it. But as soon as I try to incert the regen the OPPO say's no source found. That is with or with out the Jitterbug. Has any one had positive results in getting the regen to work with an OPPO 105. If so how?


----------



## Cornan

jjaudio said:


> I am trying to connect the Regen to the USB in on the front of a OPPO 105, I can connect the jitterbug and the OPPO will see my memory stick or phone connected to it. But as soon as I try to incert the regen the OPPO say's no source found. That is with or with out the Jitterbug. Has any one had positive results in getting the regen to work with an OPPO 105. If so how?




I would start by checking that all power cords is attached properly to the Regen and the PSU. Take them out and insert them again. IF still not working try @rb2013 approach:
"Try reinstalling your USB drivers with the Regen connected. That worked for me"


----------



## Cornan

I updated my Windows 10 to version v 1511 tonight according to recommendation from Windows X on Fildelizers Head-Fi thread. I was'nt expecting a big deal in SQ improvements...but I was wrong! If you have Windows 10 you should not walk...but run to install the new version. With the USB Regen in place my computer audio is insane right now. My only problem now is how to stop listening!


----------



## JJaudio

Hi Cornan, I have tried the cables-checking them. As I stated it works with just a jitterbug in the USB OPPO port by itself, but if I try the Regen by itself the OPPO can not see the 8g USB stick with my music on it. The OPPO will have it's own USB driver if needed built into its own software. Note the OPPO has updates now and then. The Regen has something that is blocking the OPPO from seeing my 8g USB stick. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## 514077

coolmingli said:


> I tried the Regen tonight, I couldn't get it to work with foobar2000, I got error messages of "object not found", I guess foobar couldn't detect my DAC(UM PP6) with Regen been attached, I tried ASIO, WASAPI, DS with no luck, anyone using the Regen with foobar?
> 
> The Regen works flawlessly with MusicBee, and I can tell it makes differences, I have some very familiar songs I use to compare devices, I will report back when I have more listening time, so far the experience is very positive, Regen makes song tracks darker and cleaner, this is most obvious with some so so recordings, It also works well with my Android tablet.
> 
> Now only if I can make it work with Foobar2000....... anyone?


 
 I had no problem with FB2K.  I use it with ASIO4all and had no problems.


----------



## Cornan

jjaudio said:


> Hi Cornan, I have tried the cables-checking them. As I stated it works with just a jitterbug in the USB OPPO port by itself, but if I try the Regen by itself the OPPO can not see the 8g USB stick with my music on it. The OPPO will have it's own USB driver if needed built into its own software. Note the OPPO has updates now and then. The Regen has something that is blocking the OPPO from seeing my 8g USB stick. Thanks for the reply!



Hi JJaudio!
Have you tried to play music without the USB stick with the Regen in place or in another setup? Working? Is your Oppo connected through USB to USB Regen or do you use a USB>Spdif converter? If so check the drivers for it and if it with Regen in place. Which kind of USB cable do you use? IF the 5 v pin is blocked it could potensially give you problems in some setups. 
/Micael


----------



## JJaudio

I can use it with my ifi DAC
. But the OPPO will not work with the Regen


----------



## Cornan

jjaudio said:


> I can use it with my ifi DAC
> . But the OPPO will not work with the Regen


 
 Ok, then the USB Regen is working properly with other devices.
  
 Here is a "snip" from the Oppo BDP-105 manual http://download.oppodigital.com/BDP105/BDP-105_USER_MANUAL_English_v1.4.pdf:
  
*"The USB ports are rated to provide a maximum of 5V, 1000mA power to the USB drive. It is sufficient for USB thumb drives and flash memory card readers, but may not be sufficient for USB hard disks. It is recommended to check with your drive manufacturer for power requirements, or use an external power supply."*
  
 and..
  
*"In some cases, an incompatible USB device may cause the player to stop responding. If this occurs, simply turn off the power, remove the USB device, and turn the player back on."*
  
 Might be a hidden clue here? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Since you are connecting to the Oppo with USB I guess there are drivers involved (connected to computer?). Try to uninstall the drivers completely and install the drivers again with the USB Regen in place. If this is not working I figure that it has something to do with the "snips" above. Someone else on this thread might know or Oppo´s support?
  
 Good luck! 
  
 /Micael


----------



## Cornan

Well, now I have tested The USB Regen with 5v block at the source (Elijah Audio BPM adapter), KingRex uPower battery PSU for powering the Regen (7,5 v) and 5v block AFTER the Regen (SBooster VBus Isolator). 

What do I think? 

I think everyone with a self powered DAC that is not expecting to see power coming in just have to do it! The dynamic is increased, the clairity is improved and more details is revealed. I did try to cover pin 1 with electrical tape but the results was'nt consistant at all...and not recommended. Adding the SBooster VBUS Isolator after the Regen was an obvious improvement! It took me five seconds or less to realize the possitive results!!! Make sure to block the 5v power before entering the USB cable and after the USB Regen is my warm recommendation! Just make sure your DAC do not need or requires to see power coming in! 

What about the uPower you might ask? The improvements is also very noticable...but the 5v block on both ends is even better!


----------



## zilch0md

^ I am so ready to buy an SBooster VBus Isolator, but...
  
 I just sent this email to SBooster via their html contact form:
  


> I live in the U.S. and all I see at your International Resellers page is a list of resellers who do not have online stores. I have checked all the links and I am coming up dry.
> 
> My time is more precious than the money I find myself struggling, literally struggling to spend. You have erected a giant wall between your products and U.S. customers.  It is annoying that I cannot simply whip out my credit card, order one of your products from an online store, get it done in a minute or two and wait for it to arrive in the mail.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mike


----------



## dmbr

Yeah, would love to buy one but no luck for USA


----------



## zilch0md

^ Thanks for the confirmation.
  
 It's incredible that not one of the U.S. distributors listed at the SBooster site has so much as an Amazon or eBay presence.  Word of mouth advertising gets stymied by this retail roadblock.


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> Well, now I have tested The USB Regen with 5v block at the source (Elijah Audio BPM adapter), KingRex uPower battery PSU for powering the Regen (7,5 v) and 5v block AFTER the Regen (SBooster VBus Isolator).
> 
> What do I think?
> 
> ...


 

 If you are using a Regen you should get a split USB cable like the Forza or Light Harmonic and leave the power line unplugged - just use the data line.  Feed the Regen with a completely separate linear power supply - I have had great success with the R-Core LPS Teradak DC-30W (SB30).  I have the TeraDak set to 7.5VDC to feed the Regen.  To take it one step further I use a good quality audio power cord on the LPS and have it plugged into a separate common mode and differential mode AC power filter (Art Pro PB4X4Pro).  
  
 No need for a SBooster VBus Isolator - as the Regen will now supply a very high quality LPS fed, ultra low noise regulated power to the DAC.  The computer power supply is now completely out of the equation.  The Regen can act as both a reclocker and a low noise PS to the DDC or DAC.
  
 If your DAC or DDC does not need a 5+VDC USB power feed  -  then again just use the data only line of the split USB cable.   But the use of a LPS on the Regen will still help improve the sound as the clocks are very sensitive to AC power grunge - esp from the computer.  The use of a LPS on the Regen has mulitple benefits and they are quite reasonable in cost.
  
 Cheers!
  
 PS I tried the same with a high quality Li Ion battery power and the LPS just crushes it.  The sound is so much more dynamic with a good LPS.


----------



## DougD

rb2013 said:


> If you are using a Regen you should get a split USB cable like the Forza or Light Harmonic and leave the power line unplugged - just use the data line.  Feed the Regen with a completely separate linear power supply - I have had great success with the R-Core LPS Teradak DC-30W (SB30).  I have the TeraDak set to 7.5VDC to feed the Regen.  To take it one step further I use a good quality audio power cord on the LPS and have it plugged into a separate common mode and differential mode AC power filter (Art Pro PB4X4Pro).
> 
> No need for a SBooster VBus Isolator - as the Regen will now supply a very high quality LPS fed, ultra low noise regulated power to the DAC.  The computer power supply is now completely out of the equation.  The Regen can act as both a reclocker and a low noise PS to the DDC or DAC.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I thought the idea of the SBooster Vbus Isolator was to effectively kill the power-carrying part of the USB cable. It's about $15. Or would be, if you could actually buy them easily in the USofA.
  
 Using only the non-power line part of a Light Harmonic USB cable would seem to achieve the same effect. (For a DAC that has it's own non-USB power supply.) The Light Harmonic USB cable is listed at Amazon at $669.56 right now, with a MSRP of $999.
  
 $15 vs $670 ... am I missing something ?


----------



## rb2013

dougd said:


> I thought the idea of the SBooster Vbus Isolator was to effectively kill the power-carrying part of the USB cable. It's about $15. Or would be, if you could actually buy them easily in the USofA.
> 
> Using only the non-power line part of a Light Harmonic USB cable would seem to achieve the same effect. (For a DAC that has it's own non-USB power supply.) The Light Harmonic USB cable is listed at Amazon at $669.56 right now, with a MSRP of $999.
> 
> $15 vs $670 ... am I missing something ?


 

 Well you could always just tape off the power leads as Alex from Uptone suggests.  That costs 5 cents.
  
 The Forza Twin Copper Split is $79 and the Light Harmonic split 2g is $199. 
 http://lhlabs.com/products/lightspeed-cables/
  
 So those are other options - in addition to cutting the power off completely they give you very high quality USB data cable.  The LH labs folks stress the importance of exact90 ohm impedance matching.
 http://6moons.com/audioreviews/lightharmonic/1.html
  
 For those that have a favorite USB cable the Vbus Isolator could be the way to go.   If you can buy one.


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Well, now I have tested The USB Regen with 5v block at the source (Elijah Audio BPM adapter), KingRex uPower battery PSU for powering the Regen (7,5 v) and 5v block AFTER the Regen (SBooster VBus Isolator).
> ...




Well, if I would do anything to improve my current setup it would be to contact Michael at Elijah Audio and ask him to make me a USB cable and a Regen Link without any power wires at all. In my current setup no power is travelling through my cables since it is blocked both before entering my USB cable and before entering my Elijah Audio Quad link. However, I would not expect that change to be major. 
KingRex uPower is a pretty good battery power. I would be extremely surpriced if a LPS would crush it!  

Your tips is welcomed...but I am very happy were I am right now!


----------



## zilch0md

cornan said:


> Well, if I would do anything to improve my current setup it would be to contact Michael at Elijah Audio and ask him to make me a USB cable and a Regen Link without any power wires at all. In my current setup no power is travelling through my cables since it is blocked both before entering my USB cable and before entering my Elijah Audio Quad link. However, I would not expect that change to be major.
> KingRex uPower is a pretty good battery power. I would be extremely surpriced if a LPS would crush it!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I don't understand why more people - of those who have self-powered DACs - aren't at least blocking Pin 1 (+5V) of 4-wire cables or adapters (if not trying 3-wire cables or adapters - on both sides of the USB Regen.    
  
 I have a DAC that requires power (from the USB Regen) and thus, I cannot block Pin 1 between the USB Regen and the DAC, but_ I only know of one person other than you_ (having queried contributors to the USB Regen thread at CA) who has *wisely* blocked Pin 1 on the cable or adapter _coming out_ of the USB Regen_ in addition to_ blocking it on the the cable or adapter coming from the source into the USB Regen.  
  
 Lots of people are blocking Pin 1 or using 3-wire cables on the input side of the USB Regen, _proclaiming improvements_, but some of those same people have self-powered DACs, yet are somehow overlooking the possibility of blocking Pin 1 on the adapter or cable that sits between the USB Regen and the DAC.  
  
 Superdad (Alex Crespi) once wrote:
  
  Quoting his post at CA:
  


> The REGEN ignores any incoming voltage on USB pin-1 -- it is not connected to ANYTHING on the board. So any audible benefit of having a USB cable with no 5V coming down its length is NOT from keeping 5V out of the REGEN. *Rather it is that you are reducing any capacitive coupling of the voltage to the data pair along the length of the wire.*
> 
> So yes, you can use an Sbooster VBUS isolator (or just tape over pin-1 in the 'A' plug at the computer end) and thus have a data-only cable.


 
  
 Similarly, it seems reasonable to assume that if a DAC ignores any incoming voltage on USB Pin 1, an additional audible benefit could be had by blocking Pin 1 (or eliminating that wire altogether) "_to reduce any capacitive coupling of the voltage to the data pair along the length of the wire" _- between the USB Regen and the DAC.
  
 So... hat's off to you almost single-handedly trailblazing this idea.
  
 Mike


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> Well, if I would do anything to improve my current setup it would be to contact Michael at Elijah Audio and ask him to make me a USB cable and a Regen Link without any power wires at all. In my current setup no power is travelling through my cables since it is blocked both before entering my USB cable and before entering my Elijah Audio Quad link. However, I would not expect that change to be major.
> KingRex uPower is a pretty good battery power. I would be extremely surpriced if a LPS would crush it!
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes a data only cable is good - a split cable is more versatile.  You'd be surprised what a well filtered high quality LPS does for the Regen (and DDCs like the Hydra Z I had) versus Li Ion battery. 
  
 Maybe Uptone could offer a USB adapter that eliminates the power pins for AC powered DDC's like the Melodious, Tanly, Hydra Z and the Breeze DU-U8.  For use between the Regen and the DDC or DAC.  Couldn't cost more then $5 OEM from China.
  
 Glad it working for you!
 Cheers


----------



## dmbr

rb2013 said:


> Yes a data only cable is good - a split cable is more versatile.  You'd be surprised what a well filtered high quality LPS does for the Regen (and DDCs like the Hydra Z I had) versus Li Ion battery.
> 
> Maybe Uptone could offer a USB adapter that eliminates the power pins for AC powered DDC's like the Melodious, Tanly, Hydra Z and the Breeze DU-U8.  For use between the Regen and the DDC or DAC.  Couldn't cost more then $5 OEM from China.
> 
> ...


 LPS? DDC?


----------



## rb2013

dmbr said:


> LPS? DDC?


 

 LPS=Linear Power Supply DDC=Direct Digital Converter (or as some refer as USB Bridges).
  
 The Regen is very sensitive to clean power, I can even hear a difference between the smaller TeraDak X1/X2 and the R-Core TeraDak DC30W (SB30W)
  
 So far here are my rankings for powering the Regen
  
 Regen SMPS wall wart
 Li Ion Battery (16,000 mAh)
 TeraDak X1/X2
 TeraDak DC30W
  
 The last being best so far.  Wish I had a Paul Haynes SR3 Silver to try, maybe soon.  The nice thing about the TeraDak's - they have an internal voltage adjustment so they are quite versatile.  I have one powering my Wyred for Sound Remedy (take 9VDC) used in conjunction with the Regen/LPS on my heavily modded DAC60 (see my Lite DAC60 Mod Project thread).  Using a AQ Jitterbug as well to good effect.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xteradak+dc30W.TRS0&_nkw=teradak+dc30W&_sacat=0
 http://paulhynesaudio.com


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Well, if I would do anything to improve my current setup it would be to contact Michael at Elijah Audio and ask him to make me a USB cable and a Regen Link without any power wires at all. In my current setup no power is travelling through my cables since it is blocked both before entering my USB cable and before entering my Elijah Audio Quad link. However, I would not expect that change to be major.
> ...




I am not sure that the split cable is more versatile than the SBooster VBUS Isolator. I can use any USB cable I want with it. Also I have recently ordered the Oppo HA-2 Portable DAC/amp and as soon as I have recieved it I will most likely use the VBus Isolator on it as well...figuring it would work and improve SQ. Power wires are the USB cables "black sheep" and blocking it were possible is very awarding IMO. Were it is not possible use hifi grade battery power or linear psu go make the most of it.

I am sure a Hifi grade linear psu works wonders with the USB Regen. I am confident though that it will not "crush" my KingRex uPower battery PSU.
Here is some features IF anyone is interested:

Pure DC output battery power supply unit.

I. Two output : 
 A. 2.5mm DC jacket: 7.5V DC output
 B. USB A :5V DC output(through linear regulator)

II. Major component: High quality Sanyo Li-ion battery.

III. Power volume: 2600mA/hr. Included special design for isolated protect circuitry for two Li-ion batteries.

IV. Using fully high quality aluminum for styling & cooling.

V. Low battery indicator design for charging reminding.

VI. CHG/DC OUT switch. Fully isolated the charging and discharging. It will free the AC noise from the charger.

VII. Parallel charging- each battery cell could charge to its maximum by the design


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> I am not sure that the split cable is more versatile than the SBooster VBUS Isolator. I can use any USB cable I want with it. Also I have recently ordered the Oppo HA-2 Portable DAC/amp and as soon as I have recieved it I will most likely use the VBus Isolator on it as well...figuring it would work and improve SQ. Power wires are the USB cables "black sheep" and blocking it were possible is very awarding IMO. Were it is not possible use hifi grade battery power or linear psu go make the most of it.
> 
> I am sure a Hifi grade linear psu works wonders with the USB Regen. I am confident though that it will not "crush" my KingRex uPower battery PSU.
> Here is some features IF anyone is interested:
> ...


 

 Well the versatility I speak of is if you ever get a DAC or DDC that require USB power the split cable allows you to bypass the PC USB completely and use a seperate Li Ion or LPS to power it.
  
 I have tried both, and well two different LPS's.  At least in my systems the big Li Ion (16000mAh/latest powers supply controllers-actually two different ones/latest protection circuit, etc..) could hold no candle to the TeraDak X1/X2 LPS.  The better TeraDak R-core LPS was another significant leap in performance still.  I imagine a better LPS like the Paul Haynes would yield even better results.  But that's $400 vs $150 for the TeraDak DC-30W LPS.
  
 Borrow one and give it a try - you might be pleasantly surprised.
  
 My next experiment is to try the Curious Regen link with a Curious .8 USB cable - much has been written that this is a killer combination!  It looks like Curious will provide a power blocking plug with their cable - or build in a dual head configuration.
  
 http://www.curiouscables.com/buy.html
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/11/next-level-usb-audio-with-uptone-regen-curious-cables/
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/09/curious-for-the-curious-a-knockout-usb-cable-from-australia/
 http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/curious/1.html
  
 Cheers!


----------



## DougD

rb2013 said:


> Well the versatility I speak of is if you ever get a DAC or DDC that require USB power the split cable allows you to bypass the PC USB completely and use a seperate Li Ion or LPS to power it.


 
  
 This entire area is a topic I had not really thought much about until recently .... but now I'm thinking along these lines (for a desktop rig) ... any DAC that is USB-powered is tied to an inherently compromised design .... why would I ever want to deal with all hassles (and $) of work-arounds for that ... when I could restrict my DAC choices to just those that use a non-USB power supply? And with a DAC powered by an external power supply, upgrading the power supply would always be an option.


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > I am not sure that the split cable is more versatile than the SBooster VBUS Isolator. I can use any USB cable I want with it. Also I have recently ordered the Oppo HA-2 Portable DAC/amp and as soon as I have recieved it I will most likely use the VBus Isolator on it as well...figuring it would work and improve SQ. Power wires are the USB cables "black sheep" and blocking it were possible is very awarding IMO. Were it is not possible use hifi grade battery power or linear psu go make the most of it.
> ...




I think you forget that my USB cables in front and after USB Regen do not have any power going through them. My Pioneer U-05 supply the power internally and ignores USB power coming in from USB Regen. If I did have a DAC that needs USB power a good linear PSU and the Curious cables could help me to improve things...but considering my setup there is no magic there for me to gain. My KingRex uPower will power the USB Regen with quiet/noise free DC power with no need to supply power to the USB outlet. Curious cables secret card lays in the separate coaxial power cable. I have no power so it is simply pointless in my case.

Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> I think you forget that my USB cables in front and after USB Regen do not have any power going through them. My Pioneer U-05 supply the power internally and ignores USB power coming in from USB Regen. If I did have a DAC that needs USB power a good linear PSU and the Curious cables could help me to improve things...but considering my setup there is no magic there for me to gain. My KingRex uPower will power the USB Regen with quiet/noise free DC power with no need to supply power to the USB outlet. Curious cables secret card lays in the separate coaxial power cable. I have no power so it is simply pointless in my case.
> 
> Cheers!


 

 Well using a LPS on the Regen has an important benefit - that is providing a clean, dynamic power source to the clock - as the Regen's main purpose is acting as a USB reclocker.  These femto clocks are very sensitive to power source. 
  
 All my tests where without using the Regen connected to a PC USB power source - the power leg left unconnected.  I have just completed a major DDC rolling experiment - most of the USB bridges I tried are AC powered (completely separate from the PC USB PS) or have an external DC power connection.  For example the Hydra Z  - where I used a separate LPS.   The current top dog is the amazing and inexpensive Breeze Audio DU-U8, which does not require any USB power at all, not even for a handshake.
  

  
  
 So all my testing was done without regard to using the Regen as a power source.  And the differences in sound quality with the various power sources on the Regen were not small.  I have had similar experiences on the Wyred for Sound Remedy at the other end of Regen.
  
 I'll have a Curious USB here soon, along with a Light Speed 2G split, a Supra USB, and the Forza Twin Copper Split to do a comparison.  The differences in USB cables goes way beyond just power vs data line seperation.  There is exact impedence matching, EMI/RFI shielding, etc..at play.
  
 One of the thing I like about the LH Labs LightSpeed split 2G is the care that goes into the exact impedance testing:
 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/lightharmonic/1.html
  


> Included with each Lightspeed cable is a test report showing a variety of measurements including the aforementioned eye pattern. It would appear that based on its physical design and test measurements the Lightspeed has miniscule *deterministic jitter* as well as excellent rejection of common-mode and EM noise. I asked Larry Ho to provide greater insight on the Lightspeed’s measurements including the eye pattern measurement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Fun stuff!


----------



## sheldaze

Can someone please tell me where the post is that started the USB cable tweak discussion?
 What was the issue with the original REGEN being solved?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > I think you forget that my USB cables in front and after USB Regen do not have any power going through them. My Pioneer U-05 supply the power internally and ignores USB power coming in from USB Regen. If I did have a DAC that needs USB power a good linear PSU and the Curious cables could help me to improve things...but considering my setup there is no magic there for me to gain. My KingRex uPower will power the USB Regen with quiet/noise free DC power with no need to supply power to the USB outlet. Curious cables secret card lays in the separate coaxial power cable. I have no power so it is simply pointless in my case.
> ...




Fun stuff indeed! 
I am aware that changing Regens PSU makes a difference. That's why I ordered the uPower at the same time as the Regen. I did'nt want to waste any time. Comparing Regens supplied SPMS with Kingrex uPower is a very easy descition. The uPower is clearly better! No competition. However, blocking the 5v power on both ends is even more obvious in my own setup. If I get a chance I will try out a linear PSU as well...just to see if ut will bring any SQ improvements to my current uPower. Until then I am a happy where I am at! 

Looking forward to hear about your USB cable shoot out. Interesting cables there for sure! 

/Micael


----------



## Cornan

sheldaze said:


> Can someone please tell me where the post is that started the USB cable tweak discussion?
> What was the issue with the original REGEN being solved?
> 
> Thanks!




I am not sure where exactly...but the USB cables discussion is started on Regens Computer Audiophile thread and on this Head-Fi thread as well by with using tape cover over pin 1. It is an ongoing discussion though and not a "tweak" that cure a Regen related issue. Since Regen ignores pin no 1 coming in and supplies new clean power the advantages lays in removing the negative effects the power wires have to the data wires along the lenght of the USB cable. It helps to improve the overall SQ though...but not a cure for a USB Regen issue.


----------



## elviscaprice

Before spending on a new LPSU for the Regen, you may want to consider the direct LifePO4 battery solution first by JKenny.  Sounds like it may trump all other power solutions for the Regen and cheaper but a little DIY.
  
 Unfortunately I am unable to copy/paste a direct link on this site in Windows 10, it doesn't work here.  www.tirnahifi.org/forum 
  
 This would also resolve the need to tape over pin 1 from the Regen to the DAC since your bypassing the 5V power feed.


----------



## rb2013

elviscaprice said:


> Before spending on a new LPSU for the Regen, you may want to consider the direct LifePO4 battery solution first by JKenny.  Sounds like it may trump all other power solutions for the Regen and cheaper but a little DIY.
> 
> Unfortunately I am unable to post a direct link on this site in Windows 10.  www.tirnahifi.org/forum
> 
> This would also resolve the need to tape over pin 1 from the Regen to the DAC since your bypassing the 5V power feed.


 

 Also Uptone is working on a smaller version of their awesome JS-2 PS for the Regen.  Hopefully it'll be quite reasonably priced.


----------



## Cornan

elviscaprice said:


> Before spending on a new LPSU for the Regen, you may want to consider the direct LifePO4 battery solution first by JKenny.  Sounds like it may trump all other power solutions for the Regen and cheaper but a little DIY.
> 
> Unfortunately I am unable to copy/paste a direct link on this site in Windows 10, it doesn't work here.  www.tirnahifi.org/forum
> 
> This would also resolve the need to tape over pin 1 from the Regen to the DAC since your bypassing the 5V power feed.




I have read about it on the new Regen thread. But it involves opening up the USB Regen and solder the LifeP04's wires. I am not fully confident doing that. Interesting all the same! 

But I guess that my uPower could be very handy to use that way though...just need to practise on my soldering skills!


----------



## zilch0md

elviscaprice said:


> Before spending on a new LPSU for the Regen, you may want to consider the direct LifePO4 battery solution first by JKenny.  Sounds like it may trump all other power solutions for the Regen and cheaper but a little DIY.
> 
> Unfortunately I am unable to copy/paste a direct link on this site in Windows 10, it doesn't work here.  www.tirnahifi.org/forum
> 
> This would also resolve the need to tape over pin 1 from the Regen to the DAC since your bypassing the 5V power feed.




Actually, the reason for blocking Pin 1 (with tape or an SBooster VBus Isolator) or for using a 3-wire USB cable, whether between your source and the USB Regen or between the USB Regen and a self-powered DAC, is to avoid the capacitive coupling of the +5V wire that can be detrimental to the data even when no power is flowing. (See my Alex Crespi quote, above.)

Powering the USB Regen's 3.3V circuits with John Kenny's warranty-killing mod, would not in any way negate the value of protecting the data wires by blocking Pin 1 or using a 3-wire cable.

Keep in mind, too, that John Kenny's mod is predicated on his contention that a 3300mAh 3.2V LiFePO4 battery pack (comprised if two parallel-wired 26650 cells) can provide less noisy power than the USB Regen's state-of-the-art 3.3v voltage regulator when fed by your choice of LPS. 

Unless you've got $175 to risk on such an experiment, where you'd be hoping you can actually hear the noise contributed by the quietest voltage regulator John Swenson could find, I'd say leave the USB Regen alone, keep the warrany intact, and spend your money where there's a higher probability of securing an audible imorovement.


----------



## elviscaprice

zilch0md said:


> Actually, the reason for blocking Pin 1 (with tape or an SBooster VBus Isolator) or for using a 3-wire USB cable, whether between your source and the USB Regen or between the USB Regen and a self-powered DAC, is to avoid the capacitive coupling of the +5V wire that can be detrimental to the data even when no power is flowing. (See my Alex Crespi quote, above.)
> 
> Powering the USB Regen's 3.3V circuits with John Kenny's warranty-killing mod, would not in any way negate the value of protecting the data wires by blocking Pin 1 or using a 3-wire cable.
> 
> ...


 
  Of course on Pin 1 from the computer to the Regen it's important to block this pin at the computer usb port.  I wrote about this and did this ages ago.  I only mention that it will be resolved from the Regen to DAC leg with this mod.​
  
 I say it's up to the reader to decide if this mod is good for them and just making folks aware of the option.
  
 You only need one of the 26650 celled batteries to power the Regen by bypassing the Regulator.  Hardly think this is a complicated DIY, very easy to do.  Is about a $15 to $20 mod.  You can always pull the battery and go back to using the regulator.  If you follow the JKenny instructions I doubt your going to ruin the Regen.  $175 is chicken feed in the pursuit of superior SQ.  Can't wait to give it a try myself.


----------



## zilch0md

elviscaprice said:


> Of course on Pin 1 from the computer to the Regen it's important to block this pin at the computer usb port.  I wrote about this and did this ages ago.
> 
> *I only mention that it will be resolved from the Regen to DAC leg with this mod.​*
> 
> [snip]


 
  
 The John Kenny mod provides power to the USB Regen's internal circuits, not to the DAC. 
  
 So...  
  
 If you're using a DAC that does not pull power from the USB Regen
 and you're not blocking Pin 1 of a 4-wire USB cable or adapter between the USB Regen and the DAC
 and you're not using a 3-wire USB cable...
  
 How does powering the USB Regen via the John Kenny mod prevent the capacitive coupling of the unpowered, yet unblocked 4th wire to the data wires that run between the USB Regen and the DAC?


----------



## elviscaprice

zilch0md said:


> The John Kenny mod provides power to the USB Regen's internal circuits, not to the DAC.
> 
> So...
> 
> ...


 
  
 You don't feed the Regens 5V regeneration output of the USB pin 1 with the JKenny mod.


----------



## Chikolad

It probably won't help US residents, but I wanted to share my good experience with SBooster.
  
 This morning I went to order the VBUS Isolator, but saw they didn't have Israel as a shipping destination.
 I contacted SBooster using the form in their website, and within 15 minutes I got a reply that they added Israel as an option in their website. I was then able to place my order.
 Also, the isolator has already been shipped.
 So my experience with their customer service has been excellent! Other people not ordering because their country does not appear on the website should try to contact the customer service.


----------



## Cornan

elviscaprice said:


> zilch0md said:
> 
> 
> > The John Kenny mod provides power to the USB Regen's internal circuits, not to the DAC.
> ...


 
 To my understanding even with the Jenny K mod there will be capacitive coupling through the length of the 4-wire USB cable before entering the USB Regen. You will have to block the 5v power at the computer end as well and not only at the USB Regen end....otherwise power will run through the cable and effect the data wires running side by side. The same thing between the Regen and Dac (even if Regen links are considerably shorter).
  
 If I would wish for something....it would be that SBooster and/or Uptone Audio would make a solid USB A male to B male with 5v block for us poeple using Dac´s that do not need USB power even for handshake.


----------



## zilch0md

chikolad said:


> It probably won't help US residents, but I wanted to share my good experience with SBooster.
> 
> This morning I went to order the VBUS Isolator, but saw they didn't have Israel as a shipping destination.
> I contacted SBooster using the form in their website, and within 15 minutes I got a reply that they added Israel as an option in their website. I was then able to place my order.
> ...


 
  
 I have had correspondence with SBooster, but for now at least, U.S. customers must do business by email with U.S. distributors that do not have web stores or even eBay or Amazon store fronts. And unfortunately, one of the distributors who contacted me is not the kind of guy I would ever do business with. (I'll leave it at that, protecting his anonymity).  
  
 The people at SBooster are the salt of the earth, however.  I've never been anything but very impressed with how they conduct themselves.  It's my hope that they will some day find a U.S. distributor who is willing to pay listing commissions and PayPal fees to sell SBooster's products on eBay.  I am amazed that none of them do that currently.  
  
 The first guy who does this will find himself getting the lion's share of SBooster's U.S. sales. Even if a European or Asian distributor listed SBooster products at the U.S. eBay or Amazon sites, I'd do business with them.


----------



## zilch0md

zilch0md said:


> [snip]
> 
> How does powering the USB Regen via the John Kenny mod prevent the capacitive coupling of the unpowered, yet unblocked 4th wire to the data wires that run between the USB Regen and the DAC?


 
  
  


elviscaprice said:


> You don't feed the Regens 5V regeneration output of the USB pin 1 with the JKenny mod.


 
  
 We are in agreement on that, but you haven't answered the question.
  


cornan said:


> To my understanding even with the Jenny K mod there will be capacitive coupling through the length of the 4-wire USB cable before entering the USB Regen. You will have to block the 5v power at the computer end as well and not only at the USB Regen end....otherwise power will run through the cable and effect the data wires running side by side. The same thing between the Regen and Dac (even if Regen links are considerably shorter).


 
  
 You don't even have to run power though either of the two USB cables to enjoy the benefits of blocking Pin 1 on both cables, as discussed by Alex Crespi (who I recently quoted in this thread). 
  
 Here it is again:
  


zilch0md said:


> [snip]
> 
> Superdad (Alex Crespi) once wrote:
> 
> ...


----------



## crazychile

zilch0md said:


> (edit)
> It's my hope that they will some day find a U.S. distributor who is willing to pay listing commissions and PayPal fees to sell SBooster's products on eBay.  I am amazed that none of them do that currently.


 
 I don't understand why any reputable manufacturer would want their new products sold on Ebay. That seems like what you'd do if you were cheap, desperate, and had no business plan. Amazon would have it's drawbacks too, but at least it's better than Ebay.
  
 Set up a main US distributor that sells the products directly off a website. That distributor can then set up brick and mortar dealers as long as they meet basic criteria. Website or walk in to a local dealer to buy. Either way you've got things covered.


----------



## sheldaze

crazychile said:


> I don't understand *why any reputable manufacturer would want their new products sold on Ebay*. That seems like what you'd do if you were cheap, desperate, and had no business plan. Amazon would have it's drawbacks too, but at least it's better than Ebay.
> 
> Set up a main US distributor that sells the products directly off a website. That distributor can then set up brick and mortar dealers as long as they meet basic criteria. Website or walk in to a local dealer to buy. Either way you've got things covered.


 
 Not to disagree, but just to provide a counter example...
 HiFiMan offers their products through dealers, through a direct website, and through eBay. I think they just want to offer their products, however the end user wants to buy them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Might not be true for all their products - I was looking at HE-6 and was surprised to find the eBay store to basically be the same as the direct website.


----------



## rb2013

crazychile said:


> I don't understand why any reputable manufacturer would want their new products sold on Ebay. That seems like what you'd do if you were cheap, desperate, and had no business plan. Amazon would have it's drawbacks too, but at least it's better than Ebay.
> 
> Set up a main US distributor that sells the products directly off a website. That distributor can then set up brick and mortar dealers as long as they meet basic criteria. Website or walk in to a local dealer to buy. Either way you've got things covered.


 

 I have bought lot's of great new gear off Ebay - but Music Direct or Audio Advisor would work as well.  It would be great if AQ offered a Jitterbug with blocking.


----------



## rb2013

Well I just turned my AQ Jitterbug into a VBUS +5VDC Blocker as well.
  
 Simply popped open the case and clipped the #1 pin on the female USB socket.
  
 Does sound better!


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> Well I just turned my AQ Jitterbug into a VBUS +5VDC Blocker as well.
> 
> Simply popped open the case and clipped the #1 pin on the female USB socket.
> 
> Does sound better!



Very interesting! Did you try it after the USB Regen? Would love to hear how it sounds on that spot rather than at the computer end (but with 5v blocked on the computer end as well)!


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> Very interesting! Did you try it after the USB Regen? Would love to hear how it sounds on that spot rather than at the computer end (but with 5v blocked on the computer end as well)!


 

 No not yet - I would need two - I have another one but it's on another system - might try it tonight.
  
 It's not hard to reverse - just a touch of solder to reconnect the pin.


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Very interesting! Did you try it after the USB Regen? Would love to hear how it sounds on that spot rather than at the computer end (but with 5v blocked on the computer end as well)!
> ...



Maybe just cover pin 1 with something like a thin slice of a credit card or thin plastic on the computer end might be enough to tell? IMO electrical tape will not give consistant result...probably because it is not isolating enough to get rid of the capacitive coupling. Just a guess though...


----------



## Superdad

cornan said:


> Very interesting! Did you try it after the USB Regen? Would love to hear how it sounds on that spot rather than at the computer end (but with 5v blocked on the computer end as well)!


 

 Not a good idea.  Will ruin both the signal integrity and the impedance match and will likely sound bad.  Please do not put anything--except your DAC--after the REGEN.  
  
 --Alex C.


----------



## Cornan

superdad said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Very interesting! Did you try it after the USB Regen? Would love to hear how it sounds on that spot rather than at the computer end (but with 5v blocked on the computer end as well)!
> ...




Hi Alex!
This makes me very curious! I have added 5v block both at the computer end and after the Regen (on my Elijah Audio Quad link) and the SQ have increased. My DAC does'nt need USB power...not even for a handshake. I use KingRex uPower battery PSU to power USB Regen. 

How is it possible that I hear improvements when it ruins si and impedance match...or do you mean that AQ Jitterbug does that?


----------



## Beolab

cornan said:


> Hi Alex!
> This makes me very curious! I have added 5v block both at the computer end and after the Regen (on my Elijah Audio Quad link) and the SQ have increased. My DAC does'nt need USB power...not even for a handshake. I use KingRex uPower battery PSU to power USB Regen.
> 
> How is it possible that I hear improvements when it ruins si and impedance match...or do you mean that AQ Jitterbug does that?




Why you feel you have got higher SQ performance Its most likely because you get higher harmonic distortion, and that give the the impression of a warmer and richer sound.


----------



## zilch0md

superdad said:


> Not a good idea.  Will ruin both the signal integrity and the impedance match and will likely sound bad.  Please do not put anything--except your DAC--after the REGEN.
> 
> --Alex C.


 
  
  


cornan said:


> Hi Alex!
> This makes me very curious! I have added 5v block both at the computer end and after the Regen (on my Elijah Audio Quad link) and the SQ have increased. My DAC does'nt need USB power...not even for a handshake. I use KingRex uPower battery PSU to power USB Regen.
> 
> How is it possible that I hear improvements when it ruins si and impedance match...*or do you mean that AQ Jitterbug does that?*


 
  
 I'm sure Alex was saying that we should not insert a Jitterbug (or an iFi Purifier or a Wyrd, etc.) between the USB Regen and the DAC.  
  
 You can find countless affirmations of this in the USB Regen threads at the CA forum.  The idea is to keep that path as short as possible and to not modify the signal that comes out of the USB Regen.  
  
 It's the improved SI (signal integrity) that comes out of the USB Regen which allows the DAC to do less work, thus reducing the amount of noise that the DAC itself would otherwise create.
  
 If you mess with the SI downstream from the USB Regen, you could undo the USB Regen's contribution.


----------



## rb2013

zilch0md said:


> I'm sure Alex was saying that we should not insert a Jitterbug (or an iFi Purifier or a Wyrd, etc.) between the USB Regen and the DAC.
> 
> You can find countless affirmations of this in the USB Regen threads at the CA forum.  The idea is to keep that path as short as possible and to not modify the signal that comes out of the USB Regen.
> 
> ...


 

 If you read John Swenson's whitepapers on the Regen - the impedance matching aspect of the design is critical to it's SQ.  He designed the board to exact impedance specifictions.  I believe Alex clearly stated "Please do not put anything--except your DAC--after the REGEN.  "  I think that means JItterbug, Sbooster VBUS isolator, or cable.
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index16.html


> The regen uses a 4 layer board, primarily to allow a proper impedance match. With a standard thickness 2 layer board it is impossible to attain a proper impedance match to the hub chip. The pins on the chip are small and close together, this necessitates very thin board traces, with a two layer board the distance between ground plane and these traces (BTW this is called a differential micro-strip configuration) produce an impedance that is much greater than the spec. With a four layer board the ground plane can be much closer to the top layer which allows for appropriate impedance with the very narrow traces. The regen also uses SMD​USBjacks which allow for appropriate trace width and spacing to continue the impedance matching through to the​USBjacks. The result of this is that there will be very minimal reflections at the regen side. Even if the​DACdoes not have good impedance matching (which is pretty common) which WILL cause a reflection at the​DACend, it will be absorbed at the regen because of the proper impedance matching.​


----------



## dmbr

zilch0md said:


> I'm sure Alex was saying that we should not insert a Jitterbug (or an iFi Purifier or a Wyrd, etc.) between the USB Regen and the DAC.
> 
> You can find countless affirmations of this in the USB Regen threads at the CA forum.  The idea is to keep that path as short as possible and to not modify the signal that comes out of the USB Regen.
> 
> ...


 Odd, I prefer having my iPurifier2 between the Regen and my (self-powered Xonar Essence One Muses Edition) DAC. 

Is that totally nonsensical?

iFi recommends putting the iUSB between the iPurifier2 and the DAC if the DAC draws power from USB, but not if the DAC is self-powered--perhaps the same applies to the Regen?


----------



## Cornan

Well, the SBooster VBUS Isolator does'nt mess with SI. It just cuts the 5v power and just let the remaining three wires to pass through unaffected. AQ Jitterbug do however mess with it...but it would still be interesting to know exactly how it will affect it IRL. The answer that I am looking for is really the impedance match. What is causing the impedance match to reduce? If you look at the Curious Cable it is very long...and still improves the sound according to many others. The VBus Isolator is only messing with the 5v power and the lenght of the signal chain and GND. Could any of these affect the impedance match? It would be nice to hear that answer from Alex @Superdad!


----------



## Cornan

beolab said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Alex!
> ...


 
 In my experience high levels of THD will give a harsh, edgy and dull sound...not warmer and definitely not richer in terms of details revieled. I been in this hobby too long to fall in that trap and have´nt lost my judgement just yet!


----------



## zilch0md

rb2013 said:


> If you read John Swenson's whitepapers on the Regen - the impedance matching aspect of the design is critical to it's SQ.  He designed the board to exact impedance specifictions.  I believe Alex clearly stated "Please do not put anything--except your DAC--after the REGEN.  "  I think that means JItterbug, Sbooster VBUS isolator, or cable.
> 
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index16.html


 
  
 Thanks for that link - interesting reading.  I suspect the proper impedance match could be maintained using the VBus Isolator or several other well-designed, 90-Ohm cables and adapters that people are using between their USB Regens and DACs, and potentially (who knows how well they manage to do this?), the proper impedance could be maintained even with the Jitterbug, iFi Purifier, Wyrd, etc., but the SI delivered by the USB Regen cannot possibly survive these products that process the signal.
  
 An individual may like the way his system sounds with some kind of signal processor - something other than short, 90-Ohm conductors - inserted between the USB Regen and the DAC, but they are defeating the USB Regen's best feature in doing so.


----------



## Beolab

cornan said:


> In my experience high levels of THD will give a harsh, edgy and dull sound...not warmer and definitely not richer in terms of details revieled. I been in this hobby too long to fall in that trap and have´nt lost my judgement just yet!




That THD would be harsh and edgy is what folks beleve, but its not always true. 

When you listen to a tube amp you have higher THD and warmer sound than an SS amp. 

This is not my own teory its comming from Gullman at MSB and Watts at Chord electronics.


----------



## Cornan

beolab said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > In my experience high levels of THD will give a harsh, edgy and dull sound...not warmer and definitely not richer in terms of details revieled. I been in this hobby too long to fall in that trap and have´nt lost my judgement just yet!
> ...


 
 I have read about THD making the vacuum tubes/valves sound warm (not rich though)...but this only applies to vacuum tubes (since valve amps "gives up" and produce a strong harmonic distorsion when overloaded while the transistor amp will just "carry on" and sound harsh). However, I am not using them in my system.


----------



## dmbr

I have an iFi iUSB Power Supply, as well as a Regen....does the Regen eliminate any need for the iUSB or might the iUSB still provide some benefit if included in the chain (not between the DAC and the Regen)?


----------



## Cornan

dmbr said:


> I have an iFi iUSB Power Supply, as well as a Regen....does the Regen eliminate any need for the iUSB or might the iUSB still provide some benefit if included in the chain (not between the DAC and the Regen)?


 
 Personally I see it pointless to have two devices in a chain that virtually blocks the incoming power and provide new clean power on the output. Regen together with a good psu have the upper hand against the iUSB IMO. However, since you have them both iUSB could be proven good if used to clean the signal between the computer and the Regen. Therefore using a USB cable with just the signal USB connected to the USB Regen could be worth while trying out. If you have a AQ Jitterbug with removed pin 1 as @rb2013 is using...or a SBooster Vbus Isolator and AQ Jitterbug in a chain at the computer end....you will most likely hear a similar improvements. Which one is best is up to your own ears and budget to decide...but do not forget to share your experiences with others!


----------



## rb2013

zilch0md said:


> Thanks for that link - interesting reading.  I suspect the proper impedance match could be maintained using the VBus Isolator or several other well-designed, 90-Ohm cables and adapters that people are using between their USB Regens and DACs, and potentially (who knows how well they manage to do this?), the proper impedance could be maintained even with the Jitterbug, iFi Purifier, Wyrd, etc., but the SI delivered by the USB Regen cannot possibly survive these products that process the signal.
> 
> An individual may like the way his system sounds with some kind of signal processor - something other than short, 90-Ohm conductors - inserted between the USB Regen and the DAC, but they are defeating the USB Regen's best feature in doing so.


 

 Good point - as with all things Audio - the proof is in the listening.  The Jitterbug does not 'process' or filter the signal or reclock it in anyway - it simple reduces noise on the USB buss.  Much like plugging a Richard Gray into your wall socket. 
  
 Yes the engineering test would be to examine how any of these affects the 'perfect' 90 ohm impedance match.
  
 But here is my question to the Uptone folks - if they are concerned about 'capacitive coupling' of a unused (no power running through it) USB power lead in the USB A cable head - to the data lines (even on a split cable).  How come they're not concerned about the 'capacitive coupling' of the active USB power lines coming out of the Regen interfering with those data lines?
  
 It is just that the Regen outputs a 'purer' USB power feed post the low noise regulators?  Is the simple adapter special in some way in regards to decoupling this capacitance?
  
 I tried my modded JB VBUS blocker on my main system - the one where the Regen/LPS actually degraded the sound (made it edgier).  Replacing the unmodified JB - using a split cable (data line only), into a DDC that requires absolutely no power feed.  Nice, subtile, but a definite improvement!
  
Greater clarity and a touch more bass impact. So added the second unmodded JB to an adjacent USB port, another subtile improvement. Greater organic-ness.
  
So I do believe there is something going on here with this coupling thing.


----------



## Superdad

rb2013 said:


> But here is my question to the Uptone folks - if they are concerned about 'capacitive coupling' of a unused (no power running through it) USB power lead in the USB A cable head - to the data lines (even on a split cable).  How come they're not concerned about the 'capacitive coupling' of the active USB power lines coming out of the Regen interfering with those data lines?


 
  
 Hi:
 Well there just is not a lot of capacitive coupling going on in the 1/2" of wire inside the solid adaptor we provide--versus that 5V running along the full length of a 1m USB cable.
 Some people has asked why we don't have a special USB A>B adaptor made that leaves off the pin 1 VBUS wire:
 a) We would have to have 1,000 pieces made custom in China (there is no USA company with the molds for these adaptors);
 b) We would have to make them a different color--so as to be distinguished from the normal ones--and include both in the kit (no way are we going to query every user to determine if his/her DAC requires 5VBUS).
 All to serve the tiny number of users who hear very small difference with the 5V severed from their DAC?  Not gonna happen fellas.  We have way bigger fish to fry (new product development, operations, etc.).
  
 I will say, that having tried a few substitutes, the only alternative to the solid adaptor that I can live with in my system is the Curious Cable 20cm REGEN Link.  It is REALLY good, though not especially inexpensive in relation to the price of the REGEN itself.
  
 Ciao,
  
 --Alex C.
  
 P.S.  FYI: *Every last new REGEN order placed up until 6:00 a.m. (California time) on December 14 will be shipped that Wednesday, December 16th. New orders after the morning of the 14th will be held until after the first of the year (have not yet picked first January batch shipping date).*


----------



## dmbr

cornan said:


> Personally I see it pointless to have two devices in a chain that virtually blocks the incoming power and provide new clean power on the output. Regen together with a good psu have the upper hand against the iUSB IMO. However, since you have them both iUSB could be proven good if used to clean the signal between the computer and the Regen. Therefore using a USB cable with just the signal USB connected to the USB Regen could be worth while trying out. If you have a AQ Jitterbug with removed pin 1 as @rb2013
> is using...or a SBooster Vbus Isolator and AQ Jitterbug in a chain at the computer end....you will most likely hear a similar improvements. Which one is best is up to your own ears and budget to decide...but do not forget to share your experiences with others! :rolleyes:


 Thanks for the excellent reply! I'll certainly report my findings. Here's what I like best so far:

PC > iMercury USB cable > iPurifier2 > iUSB > iFi Gemini split USB cable ("power" cable unplugged, audio cable plugged in) > Uptone Regen > Xonar Essence One Muses Edition DAC

I also have a jitterbug in the adjacent USB port--I found it only thinned out the bass when used otherwise.

Thoughts on my chain?


----------



## dmbr

Also, just curious: is the Regen's included solid USB A/B connector "top quality"? Not sure how good or bad such a component can be...


----------



## Cornan

dmbr said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Personally I see it pointless to have two devices in a chain that virtually blocks the incoming power and provide new clean power on the output. Regen together with a good psu have the upper hand against the iUSB IMO. However, since you have them both iUSB could be proven good if used to clean the signal between the computer and the Regen. Therefore using a USB cable with just the signal USB connected to the USB Regen could be worth while trying out. If you have a AQ Jitterbug with removed pin 1 as @rb2013
> ...




You are welcome! 
The only thoughts I have is that the audio chain is quite long between the computer and the Regen. Good to limit the lenght of that chain if possible. How does it sound without the iPurifier2 in the chain? Try also without iUSB, i Mercury and iPurifier2 in the chain with power cable unplugged on the split cable and the AQ Jitterbug in the computer end. Worth checking out.


----------



## dmbr

cornan said:


> You are welcome!
> The only thoughts I have is that the audio chain is quite long between the computer and the Regen. Good to limit the lenght of that chain if possible. How does it sound without the iPurifier2 in the chain? Try also without iUSB, i Mercury and iPurifier2 in the chain with power cable unplugged on the split cable and the AQ Jitterbug in the computer end. Worth checking out.


 So many combinations to try!

I did try Gemini (audio cable only) > iPurifier2 > Regen > DAC and decided to keep the iUSB in the chain. Next I suppose I'll give the jitterbug another go...I did upgrade my power cables, so who knows 

I've also ordered a TeraDak TeraLink X1/X2 Linear Power Supply to use with the Regen; excited to see how that affects things!


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> Hi:
> Well there just is not a lot of capacitive coupling going on in the 1/2" of wire inside the solid adaptor we provide--versus that 5V running along the full length of a 1m USB cable.
> Some people has asked why we don't have a special USB A>B adaptor made that leaves off the pin 1 VBUS wire:
> a) We would have to have 1,000 pieces made custom in China (there is no USA company with the molds for these adaptors);
> ...


 

 So let me see if I understand this correctly - the short but active USB pin 1 VBUS line in the adapter does NOT generate 'capacitive coupling' but with a split cable with data only lines - the USB power head unplugged - still generates all this 'capacitive coupling' along just the data line?  That the Sbooster VBUS Blocker is supposed to cure?
  
 Anyway I suppose you guys could make the adapter w/o the pin 1 and charge extra for it  - like SBooster - something like $15.  Not a money maker but it would follow in line with your theories and as a accommodation to your clients.  I  know you're busy but a phone call and an order for 1000 at what a $1 each...just sayn'


----------



## rb2013

dmbr said:


> So many combinations to try!
> 
> I did try Gemini (audio cable only) > iPurifier2 > Regen > DAC and decided to keep the iUSB in the chain. Next I suppose I'll give the jitterbug another go...I did upgrade my power cables, so who knows
> 
> ...


 

 The TeraDak X1/X2 should make a big difference - it did on mine - the R-core DC-30W was better still.


----------



## Superdad

rb2013 said:


> So let me see if I understand this correctly - the short but active USB pin 1 VBUS line in the adapter does NOT generate 'capacitive coupling' but with a split cable with data only lines - the USB power head unplugged - still generates all this 'capacitive coupling' along just the data line?  That the Sbooster VBUS Blocker is supposed to cure?


 
  
 Pretty sure that I did not say that.  A split USB cable or a data-only cable do not have the 5V coupling to the data lines--that is the whole reason for that cable style to exist in the first place!


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> Pretty sure that I did not say that.  A split USB cable or a data-only cable do not have the 5V coupling to the data lines--that is the whole reason for that cable style to exist in the first place!


 

 And that's what I thought.  Sorry - but much has been written over on the CA thread about this exact reference.  But I think some folks have misinterpreted this - in fact I got flamed pretty bad on the Regen thread there for just stating this exact thing.  I was being told that just the very presence of  a power line somehow mysteriously corrupts the data only feed on a split cable and only a VBUS blocker or taping can prevent it.
  
 Thanks for setting that straight here.


----------



## dmbr

rb2013 said:


> The TeraDak X1/X2 should make a big difference - it did on mine - the R-core DC-30W was better still.


 Awesome!

I'm using the iPower that came with my iUSB to power the Regen at the moment--once the X1/X2 comes I plan to power the iUSB with the iPower and the Regen with the X1/X2. 

This makes sense, right? I'm assuming I want the better PSU with the Regen since its last in the chain.


----------



## crazychile

dmbr said:


> Also, just curious: is the Regen's included solid USB A/B connector "top quality"? Not sure how good or bad such a component can be...


 

 It looks pretty cheap, but I believe Alex commented on a CA thread that there either weren't many options, or of the options this one sounded the best. He can correct me if I am not remembering correctly.
  
 In any case it is the best sounding option to use if you have enough room on the back of your DAC. Just use it and forget it


----------



## dmbr

crazychile said:


> It looks pretty cheap, but I believe Alex commented on a CA thread that there either weren't many options, or of the options this one sounded the best. He can correct me if I am not remembering correctly.
> 
> In any case it is the best sounding option to use if you have enough room on the back of your DAC. Just use it and forget it


 Thanks for the reply.

Better than using a fancy cable like the iFi Mercury?

"Just use it and forget it" simply isn't how I operate....trust me, I wish I could.


----------



## Cornan

dmbr said:


> crazychile said:
> 
> 
> > It looks pretty cheap, but I believe Alex commented on a CA thread that there either weren't many options, or of the options this one sounded the best. He can correct me if I am not remembering correctly.
> ...




I operate the very same way! 
You should however use as short USB cable as possible between the Regen and the dac. My own 6cm Elijah Audio Quad link makes me forget the solid adapter though. If you trust me invest USD15 in a SBooster VBus Isolator (or USD75 in a nice handmade Elijah Audio BMP adapter) and add it between the Regen and the DAC. It was the last piece that solved my puzzle. My own sound is awesome right now. I can even tell when my uPower is unconnected to the mains and when my dac screen is dimmed black. Quite amazing in my book!  You can use VBus Isolator between your Portable DAC/amp as well if you own one...so it is versitale as well.


----------



## dmbr

cornan said:


> I operate the very same way!
> You should however use as short USB cable as possible between the Regen and the dac. My own 6cm Elijah Audio Quad link makes me forget the solid adapter though. If you trust me invest USD15 in a SBooster VBus Isolator and add it between the Regen and the DAC. It was the last piece that solved my puzzle. My own sound is awesome right now. I can even tell when my uPower is unconnected to the mains and when my dac screen is dimmed black. Quite amazing in my book!  You can use VBus Isolator between your Portable DAC/amp as well if you own one...so it is versitale as well.


 I do trust you  I've actually looked into the VBus but couldn't find a place to buy it! Any guidance?

As for the Elijah Audio Quad link, that looks an awful lot like the Gemini...why are you using that over the solid adapter? 

You're tempting me to try this:

PC > iFi Mercury USB cable > iPurifier2 > Regen > Gemini (audio cable) > DAC

Insanity?


----------



## Cornan

dmbr said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > I operate the very same way!
> ...




You could e-mail SBooster directly. Heard that they are very cooprative!  Your other option is to e-mail michael@elijahaudio.com and ask him to make you a BMP adapter without battery lead (which I own as well). Will cost you around USD75 w/freight...but is handmade and nice looking as well! 

Don't be tempted...just do it...but at the same time keep the audio chain as short as possible...and trust your own ears. Good luck! 

The Elijah Audio Quad link is nothing like the Gemini. It is 6cm short and have cryo treated Mundorf gold silver wires. The 5v&GND and the data+&data- is separated in silk sleeves to prevent coupling. However, if I knew what I know now I would have made it completely without a 5v lead which makes the VBus Isolator unneccessary after the Regen. Will cost you roughly USD75-80 to make at Elijah Audio. Just make sure your DAC works without 5v power (not even for a handshake) before ordering anything.


----------



## crazychile

dmbr said:


> crazychile said:
> 
> 
> > It looks pretty cheap, but I believe Alex commented on a CA thread that there either weren't many options, or of the options this one sounded the best. He can correct me if I am not remembering correctly.
> ...


 

 High end audio seems to attract quite a few OCD types..or creates them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm pretty sure I read Alex say somewhere that the solid adapter sounds best. Better than using another cable after the Regen, even expensive ones. There may be a USB cable somewhere that is an exception, but I'd rather spend the money towards something else.


----------



## Cornan

crazychile said:


> dmbr said:
> 
> 
> > crazychile said:
> ...


 
 Well, some here seems to suffer from Cenophobia and/or Metathesiophobia as well! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Personally I suffer a great deal from Acousticophobia!


----------



## zilch0md

rb2013 said:


> And that's what I thought.  Sorry - but much has been written over on the CA thread about this exact reference.  But I think some folks have misinterpreted this - in fact I got flamed pretty bad on the Regen thread there for just stating this exact thing.  I was being told that just the very presence of  a power line somehow mysteriously corrupts the data only feed on a split cable and only a VBUS blocker or taping can prevent it.
> 
> Thanks for setting that straight here.


 
  
 I'm glad you got it sorted out for us. In summary, we've learned that an unblocked, unpowered +5V wire can be detrimental to the sound quality (due to capacitive coupling) only if it is in close proximity to the data wires. A split cable that physically separates the +5V wire from the data wires doesn't need to be blocked to prevent capacitive coupling, but the longer a 4-wire USB cable, the more vulnerable will be the data wires to an unblocked, unpowered +5V wire. Those using the USB Regen with self-powered DACs won't gain much by blocking Pin 1 on the short adapter between a USB Regen and the DAC - perhaps because even though there could be _some _capacitive coupling within a short adapter, it's not long enough to enjoy the benefits that some people hear when blocking Pin1 with longer 4-wire cables.
  

  
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/11/next-level-usb-audio-with-uptone-regen-curious-cables/
  
  
 I'll add that the relatively expensive Curious Cables Regen Link, mentioned by Superdad above, is relatively short at 200mm, but it's the unblocked +5V wire (Pin 1) that is segregated from the two data wires and the ground wire within the sleeved portion of the cable.  In other words, it may not be long enough to have any great concern for capacitive coupling of the +5V wire to the data wires when used with self-powered DACs, but better still, it's +5V wire is not in close proximity to the data wires - so there would be even less reason to consider blocking Pin 1 of the Curious Cables Regen Link than blocking Pin 1 of a solid adapter where the +5V wire is closer to the data wires.
  
 When you consider that one of, if not _the most_ unique aspect of the Curious Cables design (including the longer versions) is its segregation of the +5V wire from the ground and data wires, its great success when used to supply data to the USB Regen (which never pulls power from the incoming USB cable) points to how any well-made 90-Ohm 4-wire USB cable (of significant length) might benefit from blocking Pin 1 with an SBooster VBus Isolator.


----------



## rb2013

zilch0md said:


> I'm glad you got it sorted out for us. In summary, we've learned that an unblocked, unpowered +5V wire can be detrimental to the sound quality (due to capacitive coupling) only if it is in close proximity to the data wires. A split cable that physically separates the +5V wire from the data wires doesn't need to be blocked to prevent capacitive coupling, but the longer a 4-wire USB cable, the more vulnerable will be the data wires to an unblocked, unpowered +5V wire. Those using the USB Regen with self-powered DACs won't gain much by blocking Pin 1 on the short adapter between a USB Regen and the DAC - perhaps because even though there could be _some _capacitive coupling within a short adapter, it's not long enough to enjoy the benefits that some people hear when blocking Pin1 with longer 4-wire cables.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice summary!  I spoke with Rob at Curious about offering a VBUS Blocker as in the USB A head there is still some proximity (again referring to my previous understanding of this coupling issue in split cables).  He had mentioned it in the 6moons review (a great read by the way):
  
 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/curious/1.html


> Curious USB, Rob had this: "I've arranged the power leg in such a way that it doesn't dramatically affect the data lines; and to allow flexibility for the owner. The standard offering allows audiophiles to move the cable between systems or take the cable to a friend's place. In saying that, I can produce a dual-headed version or insert a connector in the 5V line for those who want to disconnect it.  It's a build-on-request scenario to suit a given setup. In a similar way, I also offer a variety of connectors including mini and micro usb to suit certain DACS


 
 He said no go on a dual head version or the VBUS blocker connector - he can build a three wire only, data only cable though.  So I guess you could order the Regen tail that way.
  
 A friend is sending me his Curious USB and I have a LightSpeed Dual head 2G arriving tomorrow, along with my Supra USB and Forza Split Twin Copper for a little USB cable shootout on both systems - one with the Regen/TeraDk DC-30 and one without.  Both using the amazing Breeze DU-U8 self-powered USB bridges.  So I can try the .8 Curious between the Regen and the DU-U8 DDC - just to hear what that would do.
  
 Should be fun!
  
 BTW the 200mm Curious Regen Link is $120.


----------



## Cornan

zilch0md said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > And that's what I thought.  Sorry - but much has been written over on the CA thread about this exact reference.  But I think some folks have misinterpreted this - in fact I got flamed pretty bad on the Regen thread there for just stating this exact thing.  I was being told that just the very presence of  a power line somehow mysteriously corrupts the data only feed on a split cable and only a VBUS blocker or taping can prevent it.
> ...




Very good summing-up! 
I just want to add a suggested USB cable for the following scenarios:

*Between computer>Regen*
[COLOR=0000CD]*Self-powered DAC options*[/COLOR][COLOR=0000CD] [/COLOR]
*Choose a good quality USB cable and add a 5v block at the computer end. SBooster VBus Isolator or Elijah Audio BPM adapter are two examples.
*Choose a good 3-wire USB cable. Special made.
*Choose a dual split USB cable with the 5v power cable not connected at the computer end. iFi Dual Gemini and Kingrex U-art is two examples.

*[COLOR=0000CD]USB-powered DAC options[/COLOR]*
*Choose a good quality USB cable and add a 5v block at the computer end. SBooster VBus Isolator or Elijah Audio BPM adapter are two examples.
*Choose a good 3-wire USB cable. Special made.
*Choose a dual split USB cable with the 5v power cable not connected at the computer end. iFi Dual Gemini and Kingrex U-art is two examples.


*Between Regen>DAC*
*[COLOR=0000CD]Self-powered DAC options[/COLOR]*
*Choose a good 3-wire USB cable. Special made.
*Choose a good quality and short USB cable or the Regens supplied solid adapter and add a SBooster VBus Isolator or Elijah Audio BPM adapter at the Regen end.
*Choose a good quality and short USB cable with the power separated from the data wires. Curious cable or Elijah Audio 6cm Quad link are two examples.
*Choose the Regens supplied solid adapter if you could´nt care less about the "coupling thing"! 

*[COLOR=0000CD]USB-powered DAC options[/COLOR]*
*Choose a good quality and short USB cable with the power separated from the data wires. Curious cable or Elijah Audio 6cm Quad link are two examples.
*Choose the Regens supplied solid adapter if you could´nt care less about the "coupling thing"! 

I hope that helps someone how to choose!


----------



## elviscaprice

Or if you have any DIY capabilities, such as cutting tape, or soldering.  The cheap alternative is to tape the 5V off or even pull out the 5V power pin from the USB female end on the PC.  Then run a Supra USB cable to the Regen (no need for special wiring).  Do the JKenny battery mod and use an adapter to hook up the Regen to your DAC without worrying about the 5V power lead since it doesn't receive any power.


----------



## Cornan

elviscaprice said:


> Or if you have any DIY capabilities, such as cutting tape, or soldering.  The cheap alternative is to tape the 5V off or even pull out the 5V power pin from the USB female end on the PC.  Then run a Supra USB cable to the Regen (no need for special wiring).  Do the JKenny battery mod and use an adapter to hook up the Regen to your DAC without worrying about the 5V power lead since it doesn't receive any power.



In my experiance a tape for the 5v pin is just good enough to tell if your DAC is good to use as a self-powered DAC were handshake is not needed. It will not remove the capasitive coupling. The forces is simply too strong to be completely removed by a thin slize of electrical tape. Also the capasitive coupling is in the wire...and NOT a Regen issue (but might be enhanced by Regens resolution capabillities). Otherwise OK!


----------



## Cornan

Just found this interesting read regarding coupling:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling_(electronics)

 Electrical energy may be transferred from one circuit segment to another segment with different impedance by use of a transformer. This is known as impedance matching. These are examples of electrostatic and electrodynamic inductive coupling

Hmmm...


----------



## zilch0md

rb2013 said:


> Nice summary!  I spoke with Rob at Curious about offering a VBUS Blocker as in the USB A head there is still some proximity (again referring to my previous understanding of this coupling issue in split cables).  He had mentioned it in the 6moons review (a great read by the way):
> 
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/curious/1.html
> He said no go on a dual head version or the VBUS blocker connector - he can build a three wire only, data only cable though.  So I guess you could order the Regen tail that way.
> ...


 
  
 Do either of you have a VBus Isolator?  I'd be especially curious as to whether you can detect any differences switching between any two of these three cable setups on the input side of the USB Regen:
  
 VBus Isolator > Supra USB  
  
 vs.
  
 Curious Cables (without the VBus Isolator)
  
 vs.
  
 VBus Isolator > Curious Cables


----------



## rb2013

zilch0md said:


> Do either of you have a VBus Isolator?  I'd be especially curious as to whether you can detect any differences switching between any two of these three cable setups on the input side of the USB Regen:
> 
> VBus Isolator > Supra USB
> 
> ...


 

 Don't have a VBus Isolator - but since I like the Jitterbug - modded mine with a simple clipping of the pin 1 on the USB A female.  That did make a difference.
  
 I would try a Vbus Isloator if they were easy to find.  But I take Alex's guidance as to the adapter between the Regen and the DDC not needing one.
  
 But may order a Curious 200mm cable without the power line (three wire version) when I have some spare funds.


----------



## elviscaprice

rb2013 said:


> Don't have a VBus Isolator - but since I like the Jitterbug - *modded mine with a simple clipping of the pin 1 on the USB A female*.  That did make a difference.
> 
> I would try a Vbus Isloator if they were easy to find.  But I take Alex's guidance as to the adapter between the Regen and the DDC not needing one.
> 
> But may order a Curious 200mm cable without the power line (three wire version) when I have some spare funds.


 
  
 Very good, who needs to spend money on extra gimmicks when a simple DIY fix will do the trick.  Anytime you can simplify the chain with an equal or better SQ,  it is far better.


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> zilch0md said:
> 
> 
> > Do either of you have a VBus Isolator?  I'd be especially curious as to whether you can detect any differences switching between any two of these three cable setups on the input side of the USB Regen:
> ...



Of course the 3-wire Curious cable would be optimal...but the VBus Isolator with a good quality USB cable would perform very similar. Anything else would surprice me!


----------



## rb2013

OK the LH Labs Lightspeed 2G USB split cable just arrived.  Immediately installed into the office system I have been listening to all morning.
  
 Replacing the 1.5M Supra that been running for several weeks - an immediate change in the sound!
  
 The volume is so much greater - that is weird.  I only turned off my PC, Regen and DU-U8 and replaced the USB cable - amp/DAC all left exactly the same.
  
 So much more detail and clarity - dynamics as well.  I'm a cable believer  - but this is truly baffling me.  Using only the Data line - the power left unplugged.  My modded Jitterbug/VBUS isloator in between.
  
 Very, very nice.  Just a hint of edge - which I'm sure will go away with run time.
  
 I find it really hard to believe that folks could not hear a difference between the 10g and the Supra.
  
 Just as I'm typing this listening to Mozart Murray Perahia English Chamber Orch - "The Piano Concertos & Rondos K.382 & 386".  I'm floored at the depth of the acoustic bass notes and delicacy of the solo piano strikes.  Seriously great stuff.


----------



## zilch0md

rb2013 said:


> *OK the LH Labs Lightspeed 2G USB split cable just arrived.*  Immediately installed into the office system I have been listening to all morning.
> 
> Replacing the 1.5M Supra that been running for several weeks - an immediate change in the sound!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Are your comments here related to comparing the LHL 10G to the Supra or the LHL 2G to the Supra?
  
  Quoting http://lhlabs.com/products/lightspeed-cables/
  


> *LightSpeed 2G*  ($199)
> 
> A two meter ultra-wide bandwidth USB-A to USB-B cable (over four times the USB 2.0 Spec) that allows for perfect delivery of all USB audio information. Innovative dual-connector design separates power and data conductors to minimize noise and interference for maximum performance. Note: requires two USB ports on your PC or Mac.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Even $199 is a reach for my sensibilities, so if you're excited about the 10G, I'm sorry I asked.  LOL


----------



## rb2013

zilch0md said:


> Are your comments here related to comparing the LHL 10G to the Supra or the LHL 2G to the Supra?
> 
> 
> Even $199 is a reach for my sensibilities, so if you're excited about the 10G, I'm sorry I asked.  LOL


 

 The 2G - the 10G  is way out of my price range.  The Supra is a very good cable and replaced the more expensive Synergistic Research Tesla USB and Silnote Poseidon.
  
 The 2G is in a whole other league.
  
 Now a friend is sending me his Curious USB - that the reviewers (John Darko) says is better then the 10G - and is 'only' $380 for the 1 meter.  So I'll be able to do a direct comparison between the 2G, Supra, Forza Twin Copper Split.
  
 I posted this on my Gustard U12 thread this morning after a long listening session with the 2G in my non-Regen main system.


> OK last night a long listening session on the main system with the Lightspeed 2G feeding the DU-U8- not as dramatic a difference as in my office system.  But no less important.  What the 2G did was great fun - it infused the imaging with greater holopgrahy.  The sound stage widened and deepened further - really cavernous now.  But the real magic was how the vocals and instruments emerged in the huge sound field.  Really hard to explain this - the images appeared and disappeared more naturally with greater micro-dynamics, the sound images more 3D, producing a greater effect of radiating out as point sources.  Focused, detailed, life sized, super realistic.
> 
> Not nearly as big of a vol gain  - in fact very slight.  Absolutely no hint of edge or grain - I put the worst recordings I could find up - just relaxed and musical.  An absolute winner.
> Bass did not extend but became better defined.
> ...


----------



## funch

deleted.


----------



## rb2013

OK did the USB cable show down last night for a few hours - very interesting results...
  
 Here is the ranking in my main system:
  
 #1 Lightspeed 2G 1M - by far the best- incisive, uber detailed, big and deep sound stage, greater dynamics, clarity and imaging to die for.  Never etched or harsh - very musical
 #2 Curious USB 1M - softer a bit tamer then the 2G - nice in it's own way.  Excellent detail (although the 2G is much greater).  Narrower and shallower sound stage.
 #3 Forza Twin Copper Split 1.5M - Excellent for the money- warm, rich tone, excellent detail (but again holds no candle to the 2G).  Keeping this one.
 #4 Supra USB 2M - Nice warm presentation.  Cymbals splashy lack realism.  A whole in the middle of the soundstage - made my Maggies sound like boxes.  Selling this one.
  
 No question about it the Lightspeed did things that none of the other cables could - they projected the most detailed realistic imaging in a massively deep and wide sound stage.  The Curious was no where near as good.  The 2G was just as warm and rich in tone - but the clarity and extraordinary detail where jaw dropping.  Much more dynamic and exciting - the Curious a bit boring in comparison.  Went through 6-7 songs I know well - and each time the 2G brought new life and revealed previously hidden details - I just hated to take it out and switch cables.  At least for my system the 2G is the perfect match.  Now I have tubed DACs.  In my office system the 2G actually shined even brighter.  For those with SS DAC's and D-S chips, esp the Sabre DACs, you may need to tame their inherent edginess and brightness and may need the Curious to do so...or the Forza!  In some ways I liked the Forza better then the Curious - although the Curious had better detail. But not better focus.
  
 I love this Forza Copper cable - if I didn't have the 2G - I could live with it easily.  Warm and lushness in tone - nice sound staging - presenting a complete 10 ft wide presentation.  Not the 14ft wide of the 2G - but no holes in the picture.  For those with those Sabre DACs this may be the low cost solution.  On cymbals just a bit of splash, not as bad a the Supra.  Speaking of...
  
 The Supra for the money is a great value - but I would spring for the extra $30 and get the Forza Twin Copper Split.  The Supra has nice rich tone - but it's detail is masked and the presentation the least realistic of all the cables.  Cymbals were not to good.  Muddled and lacking 3D clarity and projection.  Sound staging was pretty bad - with a 4 foot hole in the middle of the narrower sound stage - vocals recessed in a weird way. Made the planar panel Maggies 1.6QRs sound like box speakers.  Voiding much of their magical ability to project a life sized and realistic image.  This one is going on the sale block.
  
 Well I ordered another 2G today - for the office system - where it made an even bigger difference.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> OK did the USB cable show down last night for a few hours - very interesting results...
> 
> Here is the ranking in my main system:
> 
> ...




Interesting shoot-out!  Just out of curiousity. Did you evaluate them with or without your modded AQ Jitterbug in the audio chain?


----------



## sheldaze

Is there a thread for people who are experiencing the UpTone Audio USB REGEN for the first time, and are impressed with what they hear?
  
 An aside, I thought there was a supposed to be a point at which we, the high-end audio consumer, were supposed to become hardened to almost all new product. That is, we get to a point where we've literally heard-it-all and there's little left to impress us. We upgrade our cables, our playback software, our DACs and AMPs, and of course our transducers. Then there's little left to add to the chain to cause us to say, hmm...that sounds really good! But dang, if this little thing is altering my perception of digital media, and I need to re-listen to all my USB DAC again...how tragic!
  
 What I'm saying is I'm listening to this for the first time, and it sounds fantastic!


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> Interesting shoot-out!  Just out of curiousity. Did you evaluate them with or without your modded AQ Jitterbug in the audio chain?


 

 Both with and without - in my office system with the Regen/LPS - the Curious would not work with the modded JB/VBUS isolator.  So I evaluated based on not using it.
  
 In my main system the modded JB worked with the Curious!  And was better with it then without.
  
 In both systems the 2G was better - but in my Regened office system the improvement was even greater over the Curious.  Really killer great sound - and it works with the modded JB another plus.
  
 Note that both of my systems both the Curious and the Lightspeed 2G were miles ahead of the Supra USB.
  
 Sent the Curious back to my friend the second 2G just arrived  - the Supra 2M USB going up for sale.


----------



## rb2013

sheldaze said:


> Is there a thread for people who are experiencing the UpTone Audio USB REGEN for the first time, and are impressed with what they hear?
> 
> An aside, I thought there was a supposed to be a point at which we, the high-end audio consumer, were supposed to become hardened to almost all new product. That is, we get to a point where we've literally heard-it-all and there's little left to impress us. We upgrade our cables, our playback software, our DACs and AMPs, and of course our transducers. Then there's little left to add to the chain to cause us to say, hmm...that sounds really good! But dang, if this little thing is altering my perception of digital media, and I need to re-listen to all my USB DAC again...how tragic!
> 
> What I'm saying is I'm listening to this for the first time, and it sounds fantastic!


 

 I've been refining my audio systems for two decades -  and do mods - upgraded caps and the like.
  
 My recent revelations on the digital source to the DAC in my two systems  have completely blown me away.  The SQ has reached a level I never thought possible.  You can read more on my Gustard U12 thread.
  
 I've spent the last yr rolling a dozen USB Bridges and tweeks like the Regen, different LPS's, Remedy, Jitterbug (mods).  And the culmination is just plain outstanding - and folks have been getting similar great results.
  
 So here is the digital source chain between the PC server and DAC:
  
 System one Breeze Audio DU-U8 USB bridge fed by Cerious Tech Graphene Xtreme power cable plugged into an dedicated Art Audio PB4X4Pro line conditioner>DU-U8 data feed from the PC Jitterbug modded into a VBUS isolator>LH Labs 2G split cable (data line only).
  
 System two Breeze Audio DU-U8 USB bridge fed by a Cerious Tech Graphene Xtreme power cable plugged into a dedicated Art Audio PB4X4Pro line conditioner>DU-U8 data feed modded Jitterbug VBUS isolator>Lightspeed 2G (data line only)>Regen (TeraDak R-Core DC-30W LPS).  Output of the DU-U8>Wyred Remedy reclocker (LPS power supply).
  
 The improvements this chain has made after much experimentation is huge.


----------



## sheldaze

rb2013 said:


> I've been refining my audio systems for two decades -  and do mods - upgraded caps and the like.
> 
> My recent revelations on the digital source to the DAC in my two systems  have completely blown me away.  The SQ has reached a level I never thought possible.  You can read more on my Gustard U12 thread.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for your response. I will be looking into some of the products you've mentioned, and looking forward to your thread! For the moment, I'm just happy listening to the REGEN


----------



## dmbr

rb2013 said:


> OK did the USB cable show down last night for a few hours - very interesting results...
> 
> Here is the ranking in my main system:
> 
> ...



Any chance you've tried the iFi Gemini?


----------



## rb2013

dmbr said:


> Any chance you've tried the iFi Gemini?


 

 No but I have owned the Synergistic Research Tesla USB and the Silnote Poseidon USB.
  
 Both were not as good as the Forza Twin Copper Split and sold.


----------



## Cornan

Elijah Audio have a brand new and extremely interesting USB cable in the pipe-line called *Konvertible*. 
It is a modular and convertible 3 way USB cable. The Data conductors are a twisted pair of Mundorf Silver/Gold 0.5mm wire in Chinese silk sleeving. The Audience Cryo Cu 5V and Gnd conductors are connected to either end of the cable by firm fit mini bullet connectors. Can be used as a regular USB cable, unplug the 5V lead to use as DATA/Gnd only cable and used as DATA only cable. The 5V can also be unplugged after the DAC/PC have said hello (ie. handshake) for those DAC’s that use the 5V for this purpose only.

Also supplied is a matching length battery lead (with “A” plug) to supply clean 5V battery power if needed.

The *Elijah Audio Koverible USB cable* will be available in 200mm for Uptone Regen, 700mm and 1m lenghts. The 700 mm version will cost approx. $250 + $20 P&H. Elijah Audios website will be updated with this new cable after the new year...until then any inquiries can be made to michael@elijahaudio.com.

I personally think this is a brilliant USB cable that suits any type of DAC configuration...before and after the USB Regen.

Here is a sneak peak! 

*Elijah Audio Konvertible USB cable/Regen link*


*Elijah Audio Konvertible w/ plug A battery lead*


*Elijah Audio Konvertible w/plug A battery lead*


----------



## zilch0md

I can see that the data pair is twisted within the fabric sleeve, but are they also shielded?  I'm hoping they are not.
  
 Is the red +5V (Pin 1) wire not shielded?  I wish it was, but it and the GND (Pin 4) wire appear to be only insulated.
  
 Mike
 (Ideas not tested with any DIY cables of my own.)


----------



## Michael P

Hi zilchOmd, Michael here from Elijah Audio
 The Data pair are not shielded, each conductor in it's own silk sleeve, fairly tightly twisted
 Both the 5V and Gnd are also unshielded, but are approx 3" longer than the Data pair- they can be set in a curve away from the central Data wires, so there is a "safe " distance between the 5V and Data wires
 I sent the pics and info to Cornan, who as an existing customer, has expressed great interest in my cables and ideas
 He will be receiving a 200mm Konvertible in the next week or 2 for an audition and evaluation


----------



## groovyd




----------



## zilch0md

michael p said:


> Hi zilchOmd, Michael here from Elijah Audio
> The Data pair are not shielded, each conductor in it's own silk sleeve, fairly tightly twisted
> Both the 5V and Gnd are also unshielded, but are approx 3" longer than the Data pair- they can be set in a curve away from the central Data wires, so there is a "safe " distance between the 5V and Data wires
> I sent the pics and info to Cornan, who as an existing customer, has expressed great interest in my cables and ideas
> He will be receiving a 200mm Konvertible in the next week or 2 for an audition and evaluation




Thanks Michael!

The design seems to have everything I'm looking for in a USB cable. I'm especially pleased to hear that the data pair isn't shielded.

I think you'll find Cornan to have exceptionally keen hearing - no kidding - he hears traits I can't hear, but I've yet to be disappointed by his findings, which, in my opinion, makes him a great candidate to evaluate your new creation.


----------



## PWGuy

I'm not sure if this has already been covered but might help as a lower cost alternative to the Uptone provided hard adapter.
  
 I purchased a Belkin 6" USB Type A to Type B 6' cable (model #:  F3U133-06INCH) from Amazon and swapped back/forth with hard adapter.  I listened to 5 key songs that I know extremely well and I could not hear an audible difference.  I spent 10 minutes swapping back and forth as quickly as I could.  Now, it isn't a fool proof method by any means, so YMMV - but the adapter costs $5, so just try it out .  I've now put the hard adapter back in the Regen box and am much happier to move my X12 closer to the wall!
  
 Hope it helps as a cheaper alternative to some of the offerings previously listed in this thread.


----------



## Frihed89

cornan said:


> I have read about THD making the vacuum tubes/valves sound warm (not rich though)...but this only applies to vacuum tubes (since valve amps "gives up" and produce a strong harmonic distorsion when overloaded while the transistor amp will just "carry on" and sound harsh). However, I am not using them in my system.


 
 That will depend on which harmonics the distortion is composed of.  SS amplifier distortion is mainly on the odd-order and sounds as you suggest, when you can hear it.  For SET amplifiers, you always will have some audible distortion, but it's even order and most of us actually find the colorations pleasing.


----------



## rb2013

frihed89 said:


> That will depend on which harmonics the distortion is composed of.  SS amplifier distortion is mainly on the odd-order and sounds as you suggest, when you can hear it.  For SET amplifiers, you always will have some audible distortion, but it's even order and most of us actually find the colorations pleasing.


 

 Tube amplifiers clip (when they hit their output max) softly - in other words distortion rises gently.  Where as when solid state devices clip they do it in an abrupt fashion - with distortion rising exponentially.  Since music is very dynamic this clipping may only occurring on transient peaks adding to an overload sound quality.  Sounding flat - as the SS device clips it compresses the sound stage as well.  This is why tube amps are known for their holographic quality.
  
 Generally tube amps have higher second order harmonic distortion, in proportion to 3rd order. - which the human ear finds pleasing.  So even when a tube amps softly clips it is much kinder to the ears.  Solid state on the other hand have greater 3rd ordered harmonic distortion - which presents itself as hard, edgie, brittle in nature.  Very unpleasing to the human ear.  The bottomline if you are using a SS amp - do not push it hard.  Leave plenty of headroom for transients.
  
 The design of the amplifier matter a great deal - and the biasing characteristics - i.e Class A vs Class A/B, Push-Pull vs Single ended, etc..
  
 http://www.tungsol.com/tungsol/html/faqs14.html


> The harmonic content of an overdriven tube amplifier consists primarily of 2nd order and 3rd order harmonics with some 4th order harmonics. The harmonic content of an overdriven transistor amplifier is primarily 3rd order with suppressed 2nd order harmonics. 2nd and 3rd order harmonics are the most important from a viewpoint of electronic distortion. Musically the 2nd harmonic is an octave above the fundamental and is almost inaudible, yet it adds body to the sound, making it fuller. The 3rd harmonic is a musical 12th. Instead of making the tone fuller, a strong 3rd harmonic makes the tone softer. The odd harmonics (3rd, 5th, etc.) produce a "stopped" or "covered" sound. The even harmonics (2nd, 4th, etc.) produce a "choral" or "singing" sound. Adding a 5th to a strong 3rd harmonic give the sound a metallic quality that gets annoying in character as the amplitude increases. A strong 2nd with a strong 3rd harmonic tends to open the "covered" effect. Adding the 4th and 5th harmonics to this gives an "open horn" character. The higher harmonics, above the 7th, give the tone "edge" or "bite."​


----------



## doctorjazz

rb2013 said:


> frihed89 said:
> 
> 
> > That will depend on which harmonics the distortion is composed of.  SS amplifier distortion is mainly on the odd-order and sounds as you suggest, when you can hear it.  For SET amplifiers, you always will have some audible distortion, but it's even order and most of us actually find the colorations pleasing.
> ...




Certainly not as knowledgeable as you (and others) on this thread, but, as an old time audiophile, I remember always reading that tube watts were "more powerful" than solid state watts. What I believe that meant wasn't that the same watt was any different, but, because of the gentle clipping you discussed above, and the more benign nature of second order harmonics on the sound, you could use a tube amp of lower power than you needed with solid state. As solid state distortion is worse sounding and perceived more negatively by the ear, you needed to use much higher powered amps so that you would avoid the clipping and 3rd order distortion in the first place, leading to 1000 watt solid state monsters.


----------



## Cornan

I think everyone actually agree that a SS amplifier needs plenty of head room to perform while tube amps can perform with less headroom if the speakers/headphones have a suitable impedance. If the SS amp and the valve amp uses the same amount of headroom the valve amp will surely win that battle if the power supply is the same.


----------



## groovyd

tube amps for the win, ftw


----------



## Cornan

groovyd said:


> tube amps for the win, ftw :atsmile:




Well that depends of the money you have to spend on audio gears!


----------



## groovyd

cornan said:


> Well that depends of the money you have to send on audio gears!


 

 lightening in a bottle


----------



## Cornan

groovyd said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Well that depends of the money you have to send on audio gears!
> ...



Surely valves lights up my day, warm my appartment and have earned my respect. Still...SS is more value for hard earned money. Sadly there is no short cuts when you choose valves. Good valve constructions that win the battle does'nt come cheap!


----------



## rb2013

doctorjazz said:


> Certainly not as knowledgeable as you (and others) on this thread, but, as an old time audiophile, I remember always reading that tube watts were "more powerful" than solid state watts. What I believe that meant wasn't that the same watt was any different, but, because of the gentle clipping you discussed above, and the more benign nature of second order harmonics on the sound, you could use a tube amp of lower power than you needed with solid state. As solid state distortion is worse sounding and perceived more negatively by the ear, you needed to use much higher powered amps so that you would avoid the clipping and 3rd order distortion in the first place, leading to 1000 watt solid state monsters.


 

 That is true - but other factors at play - including the ability of an amplifier to remain stable under dynamic impedance load variations.  Many speakers have wide impedance curves.  Some solid state designs have low power factors - so when impedance loads drop they lose much of their ability to deliver low distortion current. Where SS amps excel in their dampening factors.  Tube amps, especially Single End Triode designs, need large amounts of global negative feedback to tame the bass frequencies.  This feedback creates time domain distortions of a very unpleasant nature.  So a major trade off between 'flabby' bass and a compressed artificial tonal quality.  Push Pull triode or pentodes are better - but give up some of the clarity and detail of the SET design.  Well designed solid state can create a better level of air, transparency and detail.  So solid state has it's benefits - if global and local feedback is used very little in the design.  Not to mention power tubes short life and extreme heat.
  
 I have had many, many all SS amps (lots of Krell and Pass gear) and lots of all tube gear (including the Airtight 300b) and a host of tubed and hybrid integrateds.  I think the sweet spot is class A mosfet solid state amp section with a tubed class A pre-amp section.  Mosfets are the most tube like of all SS outputs and run in class A - very sweet and musical.  That's where I've been for the last 6-7 yrs after rolling through a few dozen amps, pre-amps and integrateds.


----------



## doctorjazz

Sure, lots of stuff goes into the design...while my headphone amp off choice now is the MicroZOTL 2, (itself not a traditional tube design), my back up is the solid state Liquid Carbon, while I use a Krell KSA-150 for the speaker system. Just commenting on the clipping posts.


----------



## Beolab

*Back to topic*

How is it going with the new FPGA power adapter Alex?

How good is it compared to the best linear power adapters ?


----------



## Lohb

rb2013 said:


>


 

 rb with your USB cable rolling, is it purely the difference in the power leg cable material of the split cable that is giving you different SQ ? I mean I thought the data leg would just be error corrected at the end at least ?


----------



## rb2013

lohb said:


> rb with your USB cable rolling, is it purely the difference in the power leg cable material of the split cable that is giving you different SQ ? I mean I thought the data leg would just be error corrected at the end at least ?


 

 No it's the data leg - as my USB bridge is AC powered and operates with no USB power.  In fact I'm using only the data leg on the Lightpeed 2G and Forza Twin Copper Split.  The SQ differences are not minor.  Remember the 'digital' data sent through the USB data legs is an analog waveform.  And with USB 2.0 Audio Async - error correction is turned off.  So if there are bit errors or dropouts the DAC has to try and 'fill' those.


----------



## funch

Has anyone here had a Regen die? Mine has been getting wonky for a while. Sometimes it would handshake with my Yggy, sometimes not.
 It even faked me out a couple of weeks ago. I posted here, then it was working again, so I deleted my post. Not this time.
  
 Now the DAC and Regen are enemies and won't shake hands at all. Tried it with both connections (adapter and cable), with the same results.
  
 I've contacted the company, so we'll see what they say.


----------



## Superdad

funch said:


> Has anyone here had a Regen die? Mine has been getting wonky for a while. Sometimes it would handshake with my Yggy, sometimes not.
> It even faked me out a couple of weeks ago. I posted here, then it was working again, so I deleted my post. Not this time.
> 
> Now the DAC and Regen are enemies and won't shake hands at all. Tried it with both connections (adapter and cable), with the same results.
> ...




Our offices have been closed for the holidays--and my one vacation of the year--but I'll be tackling my overflowing e-mail box starting on Monday. I'm sure I'll see your message and will reply soon. We will be happy to exchange your REGEN right away and will certainly test the heck out of your flaky one to determine what might be failing.

Happy New Year everyone!

Alex C.
UpTone Audio


----------



## zilch0md

We are in good hands!


----------



## Luckbad

Pro tip: If you're using the UpTone Regen and you are able to disable PLL on your DAC, do it!
  
 It's useful on my Master-11 with NOS mode.


----------



## sheldaze

luckbad said:


> Pro tip: If you're using the UpTone Regen and you are able to disable PLL on your DAC, do it!
> 
> It's useful on my Master-11 with NOS mode.


 
 Sorry if this has been answered - I'm still trying to read through the DAC-19 thread.
 Does this apply to the Master-7 and DAC-19?


----------



## Luckbad

sheldaze said:


> Sorry if this has been answered - I'm still trying to read through the DAC-19 thread.
> Does this apply to the Master-7 and DAC-19?


 
  
 It certainly should.


----------



## somestranger26

For anyone interested in upgrading the included USB adapter that doesn't want to spend the money on something like the Curious Regen Link, I recommend trying this adapter out: http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003D3NFDK
  
 I find it to be a noticeable improvement over the included USB adapter. I haven't opened one up to see the insides, but it has gold-plated pins so I would guess the conductors are a bit better as well. I got mine for $5 a few years back for audio purposes when I was unhappy with the cheapo $0.50 adapters on the market.


----------



## foreverzer0

somestranger26 said:


> For anyone interested in upgrading the included USB adapter that doesn't want to spend the money on something like the Curious Regen Link, I recommend trying this adapter out: http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003D3NFDK
> 
> I find it to be a noticeable improvement over the included USB adapter. I haven't opened one up to see the insides, but it has gold-plated pins so I would guess the conductors are a bit better as well. I got mine for $5 a few years back for audio purposes when I was unhappy with the cheapo $0.50 adapters on the market.


 
  
 Thanks for that. Is it longer than the included USB adapter? My issue also having my balanced XLR's in the way and I've needed to get an extended looking one from eBay (and take months to ship).


----------



## somestranger26

No it is slightly shorter than the included adapter.


----------



## dmbr

somestranger26 said:


> For anyone interested in upgrading the included USB adapter that doesn't want to spend the money on something like the Curious Regen Link, I recommend trying this adapter out: http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003D3NFDK
> 
> I find it to be a noticeable improvement over the included USB adapter. I haven't opened one up to see the insides, but it has gold-plated pins so I would guess the conductors are a bit better as well. I got mine for $5 a few years back for audio purposes when I was unhappy with the cheapo $0.50 adapters on the market.


 Thanks, I snatched up the last one 

I'd always found the included adapter a little suspect.


----------



## Superdad

dmbr said:


> Thanks, I snatched up the last one
> 
> I'd always found the included adapter a little suspect.




That's pretty funny to me since I had sampled from China the exact same one you guys are talking about. But I found it to be too fat and too short. Cut it open along with a bunch of others. Same 28awg stranded wire inside, same plugs on the ends, just molded in a larger mold. They were $0.45 each instead of the $0.58 each that I pay (in lots of 1,000).
There is no such thing as audiophile USB adaptors--and they are ALL made in China. Spend some time on Alibaba to get an idea of what stuff really goes for and where it all comes from.

Best,

--Alex C.


----------



## HumanMedia

I do wonder about the quality control on all these short adapters. Personally I found a short Supra USB (70cm?) better than my hard adatpter. But are all adapters of a single type of a consistent quality? Are those individual connectors inside the moulded body all parallel in all units off the production line? Or do some units have connectors overlapping, kinked, bunched up etc?


----------



## Superdad

humanmedia said:


> But are all adapters of a single type of a consistent quality? Are those individual connectors inside the moulded body all parallel in all units off the production line? Or do some units have connectors overlapping, kinked, bunched up etc?


 
  
 Pretty consistent.  But they are wire conductors, not connectors.  And yes, they tend to be a little bunched up in the mold.  How they are made is the wires--a lithe less than 1-inch long--are first soldered to the trough pins of the USB connectors.  The the assembly (2 connectors with wires running between them) is placed into a machine (the plug/jack styles fit into metal dies on each side), and the wires are pushed in, generally in a slightly folded "S".  Then a mold encloses them and a very hard plastic is injected that covers the wires and 2-3 mm of the shell of each plug.  After that the outer rubber grip is molded on.
  
 Despite claims and stories about steel wires, every adaptor that I have ever sawn open had the same 28awg stranded coper wire.  BTW, those adaptors generally do not connect the shells to each other at all (check with a meter), but that does not really matter because virtually every USB device (host or receiver) immediately ties pin 4 ground to the shell.
  
 --Alex C.
  
 P.S.  The Supra USB is indeed a very nice cable for the price (has beaten some rather expensive ones IMHO).  I am now using the Curious Cables 200mm REGEN Link and their 0.8m cable.


----------



## funch

Recently I (thought) I had a problem with my Regen. The great folks at Uptone Audio even replaced the board for me. Turns out that it was most likely my Yggy DAC. The same thing happened again, 
 as well as some other oddities, and since I always leave the Yggy powered up, I tried powering it down for a few moments, and that seems to have fixed it. 
  
 So, apologies to the folks at Uptone, and thanks for taking care of (not so bright) me.


----------



## Superdad

funch said:


> ...thanks for taking care of me.


 
  
 You are most welcome.  We are always here to assist!
  
 Best,
  
 --Alex C.


----------



## Cornan

Anybody is using a Uptone Audio USB Regen should be sure to check out Elijah Audio Kovertible Lite 160 Regen Link (155mm lenght). I have recently got one for audition and are amazed of the improvement it brings to the table. Greatly improved and punchier bass performance, better 3D perspective, more air around musicians, much smoother & natural sounding, more presence, better instrument placement...well better of everything. The improved sq gives me shivers of joy and makes my toes tapping.

Not even a comparison to the solid adapter! Do not get me wrong. The solid adapter is a solid performer...but in comparison to the K-Lite it is way behind with a duller, edgier and somewhat lifeless sound. 
My problem now is that I have to keep it and sell my beloved Vertere Acoustics Pulse D-Fi v2 USB cable with 5v block and buy myself a Kovertible Lite 500. i love/hate when that happens! :-\


----------



## doctorjazz

Hmmm, when I go to the site, only see cables, battery packs, don't see the Konvertable Lite...did they stop making it? Is it special order?


----------



## zilch0md

cornan said:


> Anybody is using a Uptone Audio USB Regen should be sure to check out Elijah Audio Kovertible Lite 160 Regen Link (155mm lenght). I have recently got one for audition and are amazed of the improvement it brings to the table. Greatly improved and punchier bass performance, better 3D perspective, more air around musicians, much smoother & natural sounding, more presence, better instrument placement...well better of everything. The improved sq gives me shivers of joy and makes my toes tapping.
> 
> Not even a comparison to the solid adapter! Do not get me wrong. The solid adapter is a solid performer...but in comparison to the K-Lite it is way behind with a duller, edgier and somewhat lifeless sound.
> My problem now is that I have to keep it and sell my beloved Vertere Acoustics Pulse D-Fi v2 USB cable with 5v block and buy myself a Kovertible Lite 500. i love/hate when that happens! :-\




So when you unplug the 5V cable, you should plug in that blue shorting plug? 

There's only one conductor in the red wire. Does it connect to the barrel or to the tip of the coaxial connector?

And with only one conductor, what gets "shorted" when using the shorting plug? 

Thanks!

Mike


----------



## doctorjazz

Confused...


----------



## zilch0md

^ OK, so my understanding is that this Elijah Audio "Konvertible Lite" cable allows you to use it either with:

1) USB DACs that require 5V power in addition to data

Or

2) USB DACs that are self-powered and thus, do not require 5V power from the source of data

For both types of DAC, this new cable gets your two power wires (GND and +5V) away from the twisted data wires, reducing noise.

For DACs that are self powered, unplugging the red 5V wire at the source further reduces the chance of noise. (There are lots of people out there using custom 3-wire USB cables that have only a GND and the two data wires - to avoid capacitive coupling that can result from the 5V wire even when the DAC isn't pulling power through the cable.)

Also: Some self-powered USB DACs need to see all four wires connected long enough to affect a "handshake" with the USB source, after which, they don't really use the 5V lead, but this "Konvertible" cable allows you to achieve the "handshake," then once the music is playing, you can unplug the red 5V wire, for the sake of noise reduction.

I just don't understand what gets "shorted" by using the blue shorting plug, after unplugging the 5V wire.

But I like the design for how it's really a single cable that satisfies several different fuctions by way of its "Konvertibility."

USB Regen owners currently using the "solid adapter" between the USB Regen and the DAC, have reported good results by going to a short cable like this - in a 4-wire design for DACs that need 5V power from the USB Regen - or in a 3-wire design for DACs that don't need power from the USB Regen. Some people with 4-wire cables who only need three wires are using the SBooster VBus Isolator accessory (to good affect) to block the 5V pin at the source end of the cable. 

But again, this cable allows monentary 4-wire function followed by "Konversion" to 3-wire, on the fly, for those who can benefit by this feature, or semi-permanent 3-wire configuration, or semi-permanent 4-wire configuration.


----------



## doctorjazz

Still confused 
Would try it, though, don't really have to understand it, but I couldn't find it at the site. Oh well...


----------



## zilch0md

doctorjazz said:


> Still confused
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you don't mind, let me ask some questions, starting with...
  
 Is your USB DAC self-powered or does it get its power from the USB cable (from your laptop or other source that provides 5V power)? 
  
 Examples:
  
 My Oppo HA-2 portable DAC/amp is self-powered (from its internal battery) when using the USB input.  For a DAC like this, I would leave the red 5V wire of the Elijah Audio Konvertible unplugged - it's not needed and by unplugging it, I would reduce noise.
  
 My CEntrance DACmini CX, desktop DAC/amp, is self-powered, too (from its AC-to-DC power supply - it doesn't pull 5V power from the USB cable.  Again, for this DAC, I would leave the red 5V wire unplugged.
  
 My Metrum Acoustics Octave MkII plugs into an AC outlet, just like the DACmini CX, but its USB module requires 5V power from the USB cable.  For this DAC, I can't unplug the red 5V wire, so I would leave it plugged in, but I would still get the noise reduction advantage of both power leads being kept at distance from the twisted data wires - again, reducing noise.
  
 My CEntrance DACport LX requires 5V power from the USB cable. Again, for this DAC, I would have to leave the 5V wire connected, to provide power.
  
  
 I don't have any DACs that only require power long enough to affect a "handshake" with the source, but if I did, I could take advantage of the Konvertible by leaving the red 5V wire connected just long enough to get the music playing, then I would disconnect it.
  
 I'm still using the solid adapter that comes with my USB Regen, but this new offering from Elijah Audio is very appealing as something I would want to keep with the USB Regen, as I move it from DAC to DAC.
  
 @Cornan  Have you heard what it will cost?
  
 Thanks,
  
 Mike


----------



## doctorjazz

I am using the Geek Out Special Edition from my PC with the Regen, that uses usb power (I also have the CEntrance Hifi M8, couldn't get it to play well with my PC, though, and the GO SE sounds better to my ears).


----------



## Cornan

doctorjazz said:


> Still confused
> Would try it, though, don't really have to understand it, but I couldn't find it at the site. Oh well...




The Elijah Audio Kovertible Lite is a brand new cable and will be added to the website pretty soon. If you are interested you can contact michael@elijahaudio.com directly. The K-Lite 160 is $110 excl freight.

Kovertible Lite is designed to work with any DAC. It is the only cable that I know about that can ensure no 5vbus power with DAC's needing a handshake/hello. Just remove the power lead when the handshake/hello is done and you can still enjoy the improved SQ with no 5vbus power.
The great thing about this cable is however that both the 5vbus and GND is on a safe distance from the data wires. Even if your DAC requires 5vbus power it will clearly improve SQ. 
The bottom line is however that it sounds awesome and the best Regen Link I have ever heard!


----------



## Cornan

zilch0md said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Still confused
> ...


 

 Hi Mike!
 Thanks for helping me out during my sleep! All correct as well! 

 The Kovertible Lite 160 will be $110 excl freight and will be added to www.elijahaudio.com pretty soon.
  


> So when you unplug the 5V cable, you should plug in that blue shorting plug?


 
 Yes, the blue shorting plug should be inserted to the empty DC female socket. 
  


> There's only one conductor in the red wire. Does it connect to the barrel or to the tip of the coaxial connector?
> 
> And with only one conductor, what gets "shorted" when using the shorting plug?


 
 As I have understood it the female socket have a drain in the outer barrel. When the shorting plug is inserted it will halt any stray 5V waves in the path. I have listen to the K-Lite with and without the blue shorting plug and it is definitely a clear and noticeable SQ improvement when used. 

 /Micael


----------



## Cornan

doctorjazz said:


> I am using the Geek Out Special Edition from my PC with the Regen, that uses usb power (I also have the CEntrance Hifi M8, couldn't get it to play well with my PC, though, and the GO SE sounds better to my ears).


 
 Remember that it is very important to block the 5 vbus power feeding the USB Regen as well. This can be done using SBooster Vbus Isolator on your existing USB cable. However, I have actually compared Elijah Audio´s BPM adapter w/5vbus block (See picture below. Special order. Not available on the website as well at the moment) to the SBooster Vbus Isolator since I own them both. IMO the BPM adapter is clearly a much better choice with a smoother and more natural sound. However, best choice is for sure using no adapter at all. That is why I will most likely order a Konvertible Lite 500mm as well. I am absolutely sure it will improve things even more in my case now when I have heard with my own ears how the Konvertible Lite 160 performed. Love it!


----------



## doctorjazz

Right now I have the Regen plugged directly into the GO SE. You're using both the BPM adapter and the Konvertable Lite 160?


----------



## zilch0md

doctorjazz said:


> I am using the Geek Out Special Edition from my PC with the Regen, that uses usb power (I also have the CEntrance Hifi M8, couldn't get it to play well with my PC, though, and the GO SE sounds better to my ears).


 
  
 Thanks for that info.  So, you've got a DAC that requires power from the USB input (from the USB Regen, in your configuration).
  
 I would think there's absolutely no better way to connect your USB Regen to your DAC than a direct connection like this:
  

 Photo by Uptone Audio's Alex Crespi (Superdad) 
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index11.html#post412288
  
 I can't imagine any advantage to be had by inserting anything in between the USB Regen and the DAC, but...
  
 Not having tested the Elijah Audio Kovertible Konvertible Lite, myself, going only on my own experience and a lot of feedback from other people who have blocked the 5V wire of a 4-wire cable or, better still, used a 3-wire cable between a source and the USB Regen, I'm thinking you and I, both, could enjoy benefits had by feeding the USB Regen with the Konvertible Lite (with the red wire disconnected), even though, in your case, you have no need for anything between the USB Regen and your Geek Out - where a direct connection is ideal.
  


cornan said:


> Hi Mike!
> Thanks for helping me out during my sleep! All correct as well!
> 
> The Kovertible Konvertible Lite 160 will be $110 excl freight and will be added to www.elijahaudio.com pretty soon.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for that info, Micael.  I'm going to jump on it.
  
 It's just too versatile a cable not to have it in my arsenal.  That alone makes it a no-brainer, for me.  Add to that the fact that I've learned to trust your opinion.  And add to that my respect for Elijah Audio - they've been getting good feedback from a lot of people for a long time, now.  
  
 Not to embarrass you publicly, but I know you're a rabid experimenter - a true mad scientist - who tries anything and everything you can get your hands on to improve your sound, with the inevitable result of developing very sensitive ears. A lot of people on this thread have benefited by following your Windows tweaking advice - all of it worked out with a lot of passion and energy, through trial and error.  
  
 Surely, some of us are born with innately better than average hearing, but everyone can benefit by amassing a lot of hours of critical listening. You've paid your dues and it shows in how I've never found myself steered wrong by your recommendations. In short, I'm excited about the Konvertible Lite because...  you're excited about it.  
  




  
 I mean, really, you're ready to toss your recently purchased and much appreciated Vertere Acoustics Pulse D-Fi v2 USB cable?  
  




  
 You're so prolific in your testing, I almost want to just sit back and wait to see where you end up a few months from now, but for $110, given your excitement for this Elijah Audio cable, I'd rather jump in now.
  




  
 Mike


----------



## mscott58

cornan said:


> The Elijah Audio Kovertible Lite is a brand new cable and will be added to the website pretty soon. If you are interested you can contact michael@elijahaudio.com directly. The K-Lite 160 is $110 excl freight.
> 
> Kovertible Lite is designed to work with any DAC. It is the only cable that I know about that can ensure no 5vbus power with DAC's needing a handshake/hello. Just remove the power lead when the handshake/hello is done and you can still enjoy the improved SQ with no 5vbus power.
> The great thing about this cable is however that both the 5vbus and GND is on a safe distance from the data wires. Even if your DAC requires 5vbus power it will clearly improve SQ.
> The bottom line is however that it sounds awesome and the best Regen Link I have ever heard!




Curious about the "only cable" point you make above. How is that different from a split USB cable like the Lightspeed 10G which has a data leg and a power leg that are separated? Cheers


----------



## zilch0md

mscott58 said:


> Curious about the "only cable" point you make above. How is that different from a split USB cable like the Lightspeed 10G which has a data leg and a power leg that are separated? Cheers


 
  
 With the Lighspeed 10G (or similar cables) you can't unplug the +5V after affecting a handshake between DAC and source, without also unplugging the GND. At a minimum, you should always have GND + two data wires.
  
 To my knowledge, this is the first USB cable that allows you to "Konvert" on the fly, disconnecting only the +5V, leaving yourself with a 3-wire cable after starting with a 4-wire.  
  
 This practice is useful, of course, only with self-powered DACs that do not need to pull power from the USB input, but that do need to see power, at least momentarily, to get sync'd with the source.
  
 I don't own a DAC like that, so I'd only be using it as a semi-permanent 3-wire cable or as a semi-permanent 4-wire cable, not as a 4-wire that Konverts to 3-wire after the music starts playing.


----------



## Cornan

doctorjazz said:


> Right now I have the Regen plugged directly into the GO SE. You're using both the BPM adapter and the Konvertable Lite 160?


 
 As you see on the picture I attached in my reply the BPM adapter (black small dongle closes to the USB port) blocks the power before entering my Vertere Acoustic Pulse D-Fi v2 USB cable which is connected to the USB Regen. My intenstion now is to change that setup to a 50cm Kovertible Lite. I use the K-Lite 160 between the USB Regen and my Pioneer U-05 DAC/HPA with the 5 vbus lead removed and with the blue shorting plug.
  
 If your GO SE is plugged directly to the USB Regen output you should look at the USB cable connected to the USB Regens input. Since USB Regen supplies the power needed for the GO SE you should be able to cut the power on that cable. Just check that if the GO SE needs the handshake or not by taping over pin no 1. If it works you can use a BPM adapter on your USB cable. If not you will most likely win a lot by changing to a Konvertible Lite where you can dissconnect the 5v power lead when the handshake is done.


----------



## Cornan

> Thanks for that info, Micael.  I'm going to jump on it.
> 
> It's just too versatile a cable not to have it in my arsenal.  That alone makes it a no-brainer, for me.  Add to that the fact that I've learned to trust your opinion.  And add to that my respect for Elijah Audio - they've been getting good feedback from a lot of people for a long time, now.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for your kind words Mike!  I have got countless of good ideas and inspiration from you. I am thrilled to give something back! 
  
 I like my Vertere Acoustic cable a lot...but it have to go. It is pretty obvious to me that I am "riding the wrong horse" here. As you know I was prepared to buy the Entreq Konstantin since I use their Entreq Minimus grounding box...but by auditioning the K-Lite 160 I am know 100% certain that I want K-Lite both before and after the USB Regen. It is that good!


----------



## Michael P

Hi  all ,thought I should jump in here and try to clear up any confusion
 Firstly, I hope to have the Website updated with the K-lite range in the next few days, will keep you posted if this is delayed
 The K-lite is available in 160 -300 -500 and 800mm lengths - I can make it longer, but as there is no shielding, I feel it's best to keep it as short as possible
 Regarding the DC barrel - the 5V is soldered to the centre pin so that the " barrel" on the socket acts as a shield. The included 5V "blocker" plug is supplied to block any 5V emanating from the centre pin of the socket at the "A" end, when the 5V lead is unplugged
 I can also offer the K'lite design as a solid cable without 5V detach feature in A to B, A to Micro etc
 Please feel free to email or PM me with any enquires in the meantime
 michael@elijahaudio.com
 Thanks, Michael


----------



## olor1n

I've had the REGEN (Amber) in my system for about a week now. I was somewhat skeptical of any improvements being as stark as what some impressions proclaim, but I'm very pleased that the REGEN actually works wonders with my NAD M51 dac. No fancy power supplies or usb cables. Just the stock power brick and a Furutech Formula 2 usb cable.


----------



## 514077

michael p said:


> Hi  all ,thought I should jump in here and try to clear up any confusion
> Firstly, I hope to have the Website updated with the K-lite range in the next few days, will keep you posted if this is delayed
> The K-lite is available in 160 -300 -500 and 800mm lengths - I can make it longer, but as there is no shielding, I feel it's best to keep it as short as possible
> Regarding the DC barrel - the 5V is soldered to the centre pin so that the " barrel" on the socket acts as a shield. The included 5V "blocker" plug is supplied to block any 5V emanating from the centre pin of the socket at the "A" end, when the 5V lead is unplugged
> ...


 

 This sounds like a good match for Chord DACS; the Hugo needs a handshake and then is done.  Think I'll try to get one, but in the meantime, I'll mention it on the appropriate thread.
 I love this thread, so much to learn.


----------



## Beolab

The "Regen-riva"l, W4s USB Recovery !? 

Using a Crystek CCHD-957-25 femto clock, maybe the Recovery + Regen could be a good match perhaps.. 

https://wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/recovery


----------



## Cornan

I though I post some pictures of my own Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite 160. 

With 5v lead attached


With 5v lead removed & without the blue shorting plug


With 5v lead removed and blue shorting plug inserted


Connected to my Pioneer U-05


All of my testing references


----------



## Superdad

cornan said:


> I though I post some pictures of my own Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite 160.


 
  
  
 Very cool Cornan, thanks for posting those.  I was a bit confused at first by your first 3 pictures which showed the cable plugged into the REGEN's input (and the REGEN already ignores pin-1 5v coming in).  But the pic into your DAC looks right--having the REGEN close to it and attaching the type-A plug to the REGEN's output.
  
 Best,
 --Alex C.


----------



## Cornan

superdad said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > I though I post some pictures of my own Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite 160.
> ...




Thanks Alex!  The Konvertible Lite can be used both before and after the USB Regen. My short 160 version are ment to replace the solid adapter though. Even though the USB Regen ignores the 5v coming in the 5v and GND wires affects the SQ due to the capasitive coupling along the lenght of the USB wire. That is why the 5v & GND wires is on a "safe" distance (>4x the diameter of the 0.72mm Audience wire used for GND & 5v) from the twisted unshielded data wires. Sounds amazing IMHO!


----------



## Angular Mo

My Regen gets power from the original wallwart with an IBooster in between the DC plug and the Regen's power DC female. (Waiting for their modest version of their enhanced power supply.)

How do I use this cable's DC plug?


----------



## Cornan

angular mo said:


> My Regen gets power from the original wallwart with an IBooster in between the DC plug and the Regen's power DC female. (Waiting for their modest version of their enhanced power supply.)
> 
> How do I use this cable's DC plug?


 
 The 5vbus power wire on the Kovertible Lite have nothing to do with the power supply of the USB Regen. The reason for removing the 5vbus power is to remove the capacitive coupling along the length of the USB cable, ie. the negative effect that the power wires have to the data wires due to mixed frequency signals. Here is a interesting link in the subject if you want to dig a little deeper: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/alternating-current/chpt-7/mixed-frequency-ac-signals/
  
 The normal procedure is to shield the USB cables close to insanity to make sure that the data signal is as unaffected as possible. However, shielded cables affects the sound negatively. The better (more expensive) shielding the better sound...but it will always affect it negatively in some way. Moving the 5vbus power far away from the data wires (at least >4 times the diameter of the cable along the length of the cable except inside the USB plugs of course) and twisting the unshielded data+ and data- wires will ensure that the signal is as unaffected as possible giving you improved SQ compared to shielding. Also the GND wire is moved away from the data wires to ensure that it does´nt affect the data wires negatively. Removing the GND wire all together will not be a good sq solution though...plus it is also needed for DAC´s that requires a handshake/hello.
  
 Removing the power wires completely is usually a good idea if the DAC is self-powered. It will isolate the dirty pc power from your sound system as much as possible. A rule of thumb is to remove the 5vbus were ever possible...but check first if it is possible with your particular DAC by covering pin 1 on the USB plug. If your DAC still produce sound with pin 1 covered you are good to go!
  
 I personally use Kingrex Upower battery supply for the USB Regen that is not connected to the wallwart while playing music (100% isolated) and the USB Regen ignores the 5vbus coming in. Still there is huge improvements to be made by the Konvertible Lite.
  
 I hope that helps! 
  
 /Micael
  
 Edit: Just for notes. When you have a unshielded cable is is of course very important to make sure that no power wires is crossing that cable at any point and to ensure that the power wires are at a safe distance from the unshielded wires. Otherwise you will defeat the purpose.


----------



## mtruong34

I think it's Konvertible not Kovertible


----------



## Cornan

mtruong34 said:


> I think it's Konvertible not Kovertible



Yes, Konvertible of course!


----------



## Lohb

cornan said:


> and twisting the unshielded data+ and data- wires will ensure that the signal is as unaffected as possible giving you improved SQ compared to shielding. Also the GND wire is moved away from the data wires to ensure that it does´nt affect the data wires negatively. Removing the GND wire all together will not be a good sq solution though...plus it is also needed for DAC´s that requires a handshake/hello.


 
 So in a data-only cable, braid the -ve/+ve lines and leave that ground wire out of the braid if your DAC needs a handshake (which mine does) ?


----------



## Cornan

lohb said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > and twisting the unshielded data+ and data- wires will ensure that the signal is as unaffected as possible giving you improved SQ compared to shielding. Also the GND wire is moved away from the data wires to ensure that it does´nt affect the data wires negatively. Removing the GND wire all together will not be a good sq solution though...plus it is also needed for DAC´s that requires a handshake/hello.
> ...



If you know you have a DAC that is self-powered but needs the handshake you connect the Konvertible Lite with the 5vbus power wire plugged in. When the handshake is done you simply unplug the 5vbus wire so the data+, data- and GND is the only ones connected. Power is needed during the initial handshake.


----------



## Lohb

cornan said:


> If you know you have a DAC that is self-powered but needs the handshake you connect the Konvertible Lite with the 5vbus power wire plugged in. When the handshake is done you simply unplug the 5vbus wire so the data+, data- and GND is the only ones connected. Power is needed during the initial handshake.



Thanks. Got the power covered, I was just curious about best practices of braiding a DIY data-only cable if this stuff can affect the SQ. And it looks like I'll be keeping the ground line separate from the braid on my next smaller cable than the one I now have.


----------



## Michael P

Hi All, it appears the Elijah Audio website won't be updated until this Friday (Aussie time)
 Also, would just like to mention that initial orders may incur up to a 14 day build time as I streamline the construction process and fill existing orders-  planning to reduce this to 7 days or less ASAP
 And a further note of clarification regarding the Konvertible lite design
 The DC plug feature of the K-lite has nothing to do with the Power Supply to the Regen - It was chosen as the connector of choice because of it's advantages over the Auto style bullet connector I had used for the prototype
 Thanks , Michael


----------



## Michael P

Hi all, updated website now live
 http://www.elijahaudio.com
 Thanks, Michael


----------



## doctorjazz

So, the Konvertable Lite is a good add on for the Regem (using it with the Geek Out Special Edition, an upgraded 1000). Already using 2G LH labs usb cable, does it pay to change cables?


----------



## Cornan

doctorjazz said:


> So, the Konvertable Lite is a good add on for the Regem (using it with the Geek Out Special Edition, an upgraded 1000). Already using 2G LH labs usb cable, does it pay to change cables?




It certainly pays off changing to better USB cables. It is however difficult to know the difference between Lightspeed 2G without trying the both of them. It all comes down to sound signature and if the Geek out needs the handshake or not. What I do know is that the Konvertible Lite sounds very clear, natural, smooth, detailed and awsome in every way and are the very best USB cable that I have heard. I have heard a lot of USB cables...but unfortunately not he 2G (but read good reviews). I also know that Elijah Audio have a 60 days satisfaction guaratee. It is very safe to try as long as you are careful with the cable. I have placed an order of the Konvertible Lite 500mm (3 wire version, ie without 5v lead) as well so I will have it both before and after the USB Regen. Joy!


----------



## BernieK

Still relatively early days but has anyone compared the Curious Cable Regen Link with the Konvertble Lite as  a replacement for the solid Regen adaptor?
  
 Cheers,
  
 Bernie


----------



## Michael P

Hi Bernie, I am arranging with a local Adelaide customer (using Curious link between Regen/DAC) to audition/compare a K-lite 160 and a K-lite 500( between PC/Regen) I will post his comments ASAP
 Michael


----------



## BernieK

Hi Michael,
  
 Great! I'm very interested to learn the outcome of the comparison. It would be very helpful if your local customer could provide some details about the system and music involved.
  
 Cheers,
  
 Bernie


----------



## rb2013

Someone posted this statement over on my Gustard U12 thread - I wonder if the Uptone folks have any comment on the Regen adding noise on the USB feed?
  


> I absolutely love the intona. It does help in my system actually. I may consider selling my ppa3 now. As the intona does everything I need and then some. Kinda a no brainer. Industrial strength! Wonder what industry... Oh wait, duh!! The audio industry! So it's made for professional level studios with demands, and other stuff too. But definitely audio grade. *I was just reading how sulking the regen, jitterbug and wyrd are as many of them actually add noise to USB*. More than I realized. Good thing intona has been tested to prove it actually removes all the packet noise. Specifically 8khz and 16khz noise is no longer any issue. Which I would love to see the ifi iusb3.0 specs on 8khz packet noise. I haven't been fortunate enough to find that information yet. I may have to borrow my friends and get that info myself. But at least I know the intona is actually working and not just some silly device that makes USB sound different. The Intona actually makes it sound as good as it's going to get.


----------



## dmbr

I purchased a TeraDak TeraLink X1/X2 8.5V Linear PSU a little while ago for my Regen, and I was happy with the results of the upgrade....now I'm considering iFi's new offering of the "DC iPurifier" to go with it. 

I use their Gemini and Mercury USB cables with the iUSB and iPurifier2 in conjunction with my Regen, and I'm happy with what they all did for the SQ of my chain.

I can't find one for under $150, however, and that seems rather steep for a "let's hope this does something maybe a little" purchase :/

Any opinions on whether it'd be a noticeable upgrade to the Regen + TeraDak PSU when using the following setup, please?

iFi Mercury USB cable > iFi USB iPurifier2> iUSB > iGemini dual USB cable (power USB cable unplugged) > Uptone Regen (with TeraDak TeraLink X1/X2 8.5V Linear PSU) > Konvertible Lite > Xonar Essence One DAC > RCA > iFi iTube preamp > Yulong A28 balanced headphone amp > Cardas Fatpipe Balanced cables > HD800's


----------



## rb2013

dmbr said:


> I purchased a TeraDak TeraLink X1/X2 8.5V Linear PSU a little while ago for my Regen, and I was happy with the results of the upgrade....now I'm considering iFi's new offering of the "DC iPurifier" to go with it.
> 
> I use their Gemini and Mercury USB cables with the iUSB and iPurifier2 in conjunction with my Regen, and I'm happy with what they all did for the SQ of my chain.
> 
> ...


 

 Can you buy a DC iPurifier?  I've been looking for one all over - iFi said Jan '16 release.
  
 BTW I use a TeraDak X1 on my Regen.  I recapped it with totl Panasonic FR 1600uf caps  - made a nice improvement in the sound.  Only cost $15.  Unfortunately TeraDak use those crappy el-cheapo gray Chinese caps.\


----------



## dmbr

rb2013 said:


> Can you buy a DC iPurifier?  I've been looking for one all over - iFi said Jan '16 release.
> 
> BTW I use a TeraDak X1 on my Regen.  I recapped it with totl Panasonic FR 1600uf caps  - made a nice improvement in the sound.  Only cost $15.  Unfortunately TeraDak use those crappy el-cheapo gray Chinese caps.\


 I found one DC iPurifier seller on eBay, but that's it.

Thanks for the caps tip! Would you mind linking me to an Amazon.com listing or some such? I must admit I'm not entirely sure what part you're referring to or where I might get it.


----------



## alubis

rb2013 said:


> Someone posted this statement over on my Gustard U12 thread - I wonder if the Uptone folks have any comment on the Regen adding noise on the USB feed?


 
  
 http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?18580-Science-Thread-Review-of-Audioquest-Jitterbug-and-Uptone-Regen-USB-Conditioners&highlight=science+thread


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

I've been running a borrowed regen in my chain for the last few days. I decided to go ahead and get one for myself. I'll be in the mid-February shipment.


----------



## zilch0md

rb2013 said:


> Can you buy a DC iPurifier?  I've been looking for one all over - iFi said Jan '16 release.
> 
> BTW I use a TeraDak X1 on my Regen.  I recapped it with totl Panasonic FR 1600uf caps  - made a nice improvement in the sound.  Only cost $15.  Unfortunately TeraDak use those crappy el-cheapo gray Chinese caps.\


 
  
 I use this LPS, too, when feeling lazy and not wanting to use my rechargeable battery pack to power the USB Regen.
  
 Just for clarification, the "TeraDak X1" (as you've called it) - or more completely, the "TeraDak TeraLink X1" - is a 48kHz USB-to-SPDIF converter, as is the 96kHz "TeraDak TeraLink X2".  
  
 The LPS you've pictured is called the "TeraDak TeraLink X1/X2 Linear Power Supply" - named as such because it's made for powering their TeraLink X1 or TeraLink X2 USB-to-SPDIF converters.  
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



By the way, for playing 96/24 or 44/16 files, when using the TeraDak TeraLink X1/X2 LPS with the TeraDak TeraLink X2 USB-to-SPDIF converter, taking Coaxial ouput into the Oppo HA-1, the resulting sound is superior to using the Oppo HA-1's internal USB receiver - which I find to be grainy, for lack of a better word. The USB Regen can't fix what's wrong with the HA-1's USB receiver, as I suspect it's a matter of internal power supply noise within the HA-1 - that gets injected into the signal after the USB Regen has done its magic.
  
 Seriously, the inexpensive TeraDak TeraLink X2 USB-to-SPDIF converter can be considered an upgrade to the HA-1's USB receiver when powered by the Teralink X1/X2 power supply or, better still, a battery pack. In fact, any USB DAC that gets its power from a built-in mains-energized power supply, must be considered "suspect" if the noise floor isn't pitch black.  A simple, well-designed, cleanly-powered, external USB-to-SPDIF converter can make a big difference, depending on how dirty the power is that such a DAC supplies to its USB module - assuming the Coaxial or Optical inputs of the DAC aren't compromised in some way. 


  
 The TeraDak TeraLink X1/X2 LPS has a fixed output of 5V at its USB A female jack, but has a user-adjustable output of 0.25V to 9.0V at the 2.5mm barrel jack (via a small brass screw that can be found inside.) It ships from the factory with the pot adjusted for 8.5V output.  
  
 I've got mine adjusted to a measured 7.0V output for use with the USB Regen and a DAC that pulls power from the USB Regen, which has a 6V minimum requirement when powering a DAC.  This allows the USB Regen's internal 5V and 3.3V voltage regulators to run cooler than they would if I were to provide a higher voltage than 7.0V.  I could bring it down as low as 6.0V, but I think the USB Regen is running cool enough at 7.0V and I like a little bit of margin - I'll let the voltage regulators work a little harder. 
  
 As has been discussed previously in this thread, the USB Regen can handle up to 12V input only if the DAC is not pulling any power from the USB Regen - such that its 5V voltage regulator is not having to do anything.  The amount of current pulled from the USB Regen's internal hub circuit via the 3.3V regulator is not enough to cause a lot of heat dissipation when using 12V input.  But if your DAC pulls 5V power from the USB Regen, you should keep the supply voltage at about 9V or less - the lower the better, down to the 6V minimum.
  
*If your DAC pulls power from the USB cable:  You can supply your USB Regen with 6V to 9V.*
*If your DAC does not pull power from the USB cable:  You can supply your USB Regen with 5V to 12V.*
  
 In both cases, the lower the voltage, the better, to keep the USB Regen running cooler - for increased longevity.
  
See the USB Regen FAQ.
  
 Another thing I really like about the TeraDak TeraLink X1/X2 LPS is *the cables that ship with it*, including *a USB-Y cable* that allows you to pull only data from your USB source, while pulling power from an LPS or battery pack. I don't need this cable when using the USB Regen, but I do use it elsewhere - and a* 2.5mm coaxial connector power cable* that I do use with the USB Regen (and elsewhere).
  
  
  
 When you consider the cost of good cables, these make the TeraDak TeraLink X1/X2 LPS all the more a good value at only $80 (via one of several ebay sellers).
  
 Some of the folks on the USB Regen threads at ComputerAudiophile (CA) say that the better value still is TeraDak's so-called "DC-30W Golden Wave Pearl", a 9V/2.5A LPS that uses the preferred R-Core transformer, instead of the EI transformer found in the less expensive TeraLink X1/X2 LPS.  This LPS is frequently called the "El Cheapo" in the CA threads, but it's well liked, at $154 (via one of several ebay sellers.) By the way, the output of this LPS can also be adjusted via a brass screw, inside.
  
 All that said, we should probably not buy any power supply upgrades for a while, and just save up some coins to get the forthcoming mystery power-supply add-on device that John Swenson and Alex Crespi will be releasing (within a couple of months?). It could be the last word for cleanly powering the USB Regen.
  
 Mike


----------



## zilch0md

rb2013 said:


> Can you buy a DC iPurifier?  I've been looking for one all over - iFi said Jan '16 release.
> 
> BTW I use a TeraDak X1 on my Regen.  I recapped it with totl Panasonic FR 1600uf caps  - made a nice improvement in the sound.  Only cost $15.  Unfortunately TeraDak use those crappy el-cheapo gray Chinese caps.\


 
  
 And congratulations on having replaced those 8 caps. I envy your soldering skills, but I'm working on that and think I might be able to pull this off as a fun project.
  
 I found the Panasonic FR 25V 1500uF caps at DigiKey, currently 79.4 cents each when ordering 10 or more:   http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/EEU-FR1E152/P14427-ND/2433561


----------



## zilch0md

rb2013 said:


> Someone posted this statement over on my Gustard U12 thread - I wonder if the Uptone folks have any comment on the Regen adding noise on the USB feed?


 
  


alubis said:


> http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?18580-Science-Thread-Review-of-Audioquest-Jitterbug-and-Uptone-Regen-USB-Conditioners&highlight=science+thread


 
  
 Look, we can get excited about what somebody has measured or we can get excited about what we hear.  There are so many variables involved that what's measured in somebody's lab can rarely be reproduced in someone else's environment, and besides, that which can be measured is always a fraction of everything our amazing ears can detect.  So....  Yes, measurements do tell us something, but in the end, my advice is to just buy it and listen to it - whether we're talking about headphones, amps, DACs, sources, power supplies, cables, or even...  USB signal integrity enhancers.  Your tastes are different, your ears are different, your other gear is different, your power supplies are different - why would you want to trust anyone else's "objective" measurements any more than you are willing to trust someone else's subjective impressions? Just buy it and try it. Then keep it or get rid of it. Welcome to the world of audio, where you have to buy it before you can figure out what it will do for you (somewhat like Obamacare.) 
  
 The best you can do without trying an audio component for yourself is to look for a strong consensus of approval, as we can certainly say exists for the Uptone Audio USB Regen. They've sold well over a thousand of them and I know of less than a handful of posters saying it didn't make an audible improvement in their systems.  With nearly unanimous approval of this magnitude, you still need to buy it and try it yourself, to know for sure whether it's of any value to you. The positive consensus only tells you that your risk of disappointment is extremely low compared to many other audio products.
  





  
 Mike


----------



## dmbr

zilch0md said:


> I use this LPS, too, when feeling lazy and not wanting to use my rechargeable battery pack to power the USB Regen.
> 
> Just for clarification, the "TeraDak X1" (as you've called it) - or more completely, the "TeraDak TeraLink X1" - is a 48kHz USB-to-SPDIF converter, as is the 96kHz "TeraDak TeraLink X2".
> 
> ...


 I'm thinking of grabbing a DC iPurifier (applies the active noise cancellation technology present in the iFi iPower to any PSU) for my own TeraDak X1 + Regen purposes....

Do you guys think it'd be worth it for $150?


----------



## rb2013

zilch0md said:


> And congratulations on having replaced those 8 caps. I envy your soldering skills, but I'm working on that and think I might be able to pull this off as a fun project.
> 
> I found the Panasonic FR 25V 1500uF caps at DigiKey, currently 79.4 cents each when ordering 10 or more:   http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/EEU-FR1E152/P14427-ND/2433561


 

 Yes those are the ones - it's really not to tough - the case opens to get easy access to both sides of the board.  That makes it easier. But for 10 I think they are $1.08 each -how do you beat that!


----------



## rb2013

zilch0md said:


> Look, we can get excited about what somebody has measured or we can get excited about what we hear.  There are so many variables involved that what's measured in somebody's lab can rarely be reproduced in someone else's environment, and besides, that which can be measured is always a fraction of everything our amazing ears can detect.  So....  Yes, measurements do tell us something, but in the end, my advice is to just buy it and listen to it - whether we're talking about headphones, amps, DACs, sources, power supplies, cables, or even...  USB signal integrity enhancers.  Your tastes are different, your ears are different, your other gear is different, your power supplies are different - why would you want to trust anyone else's "objective" measurements any more than you are willing to trust someone else's subjective impressions? Just buy it and try it. Then keep it or get rid of it. Welcome to the world of audio, where you have to buy it before you can figure out what it will do for you (somewhat like Obamacare.)
> 
> The best you can do without trying an audio component for yourself is to look for a strong consensus of approval, as we can certainly say exists for the Uptone Audio USB Regen. They've sold well over a thousand of them and I know of less than a handful of posters saying it didn't make an audible improvement in their systems.  With nearly unanimous approval of this magnitude, you still need to buy it and try it yourself, to know for sure whether it's of any value to you. The positive consensus only tells you that your risk of disappointment is extremely low compared to many other audio products.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm 100% with you there!  In one system the Regen/LPS made a terrific difference - but in another of my systems - it was a sight regression.  So like you say trust your ears.


----------



## rb2013

zilch0md said:


> I use this LPS, too, when feeling lazy and not wanting to use my rechargeable battery pack to power the USB Regen.
> 
> Just for clarification, the "TeraDak X1" (as you've called it) - or more completely, the "TeraDak TeraLink X1" - is a 48kHz USB-to-SPDIF converter, as is the 96kHz "TeraDak TeraLink X2".
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the clarification on the X1/X2 linear power supply notation - I have mine set at 7.5VDC as well for the Regen.  I have two of the better TeraDaks DC-30W  - one verison with 10 of the smaller 25V 1500uf caps the other with 2 larger Panasonic 3,300uf caps along with some of the smaller generics.  The Pannie cap version sounds better of the two.  I plan on recapping both completely with the Panasonic FRs -as the ones used are at the bottom of the Pannie line-up (and only rated to 2,000hrs life vs 10,000 for the FR's. '
  
 On the Regen I did notice a slight improvement with either of these - worth the extra money?  I got a bigger bang using them on the incredible DIYinHK DXIO Pro3a USB Bridge (the 3,300uf version) and one on my Wryrd For Sound Remedy (that's a great partner with the Regen on my office system).
  
 I love the flexibelity of all these TeraDaks as the DXIO takes 5VDC, the Regen 6-9 VDC, the Remedy 9VDC.  So any of them can be adjusted to be used anywhere!
  
 I have ordered a 9VDC and 5VDC version of the iPower - they're only $49 and have great measurements and good feedbakc (other then some mechanical noise - hum from the transformer inside).  I'll report back the comparison of the 9VDC on the Regen vs the TeraDak.
  

  

  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/
  
What audio noise floor?





Measured on the Audio Precision 2, the iPower has an astonishingly low audio band noise floor of just 1uV! To put this into context, iFi’s very own Ultra-Low Noise AC/DC adapter was in a class of its own at 10uV. Compared to a typical audiophile Linear Power Supply which measured at 20uV, it is demonstrably clear AMR/iFi power supply technology is unparalleled.


----------



## Angular Mo

I am confused between the two Teradak power supplies people use for the Regen, and their respective accessories (cables) they come with. If I recall correctly there is one that costs around USD 75 and the other for USD 150. I must be confused because it seems to me the lower cost one comes with that very interesting USB cable.

So I need some help on these two Teradaks, in addition to the URL for those Panasonic 1500uf capacitors; do they just plug into the Teradak's board? Or is there soldering involved?


----------



## motberg

dmbr said:


> I'm thinking of grabbing a DC iPurifier (applies the active noise cancellation technology present in the iFi iPower to any PSU) for my own TeraDak X1 + Regen purposes....
> 
> Do you guys think it'd be worth it for $150?


 

 I ordered one of these iFi things (maybe will use on a battery supply) - but I think better to take Mike's advice and wait for final info about the UpTone mystery thing if possible.
 I think there were hints that it may be an isolated PS adapter/filter... Isolation may provide additional benefits over just filtering.
 I really do not understand the technicalities of all this, but that is my current take on the comparison.


----------



## motberg

angular mo said:


> I am confused between the two Teradak power supplies people use for the Regen, and their respective accessories (cables) they come with. If I recall correctly there is one that costs around USD 75 and the other for USD 150. I must be confused because it seems to me the lower cost one comes with that very interesting USB cable.
> 
> So I need some help on these two Teradaks, in addition to the URL for those Panasonic 1500uf capacitors; do they just plug into the Teradak's board? Or is there soldering involved?


 

 The lower powered cheaper TeraDak has 2 outputs, one is a 2.1mm DC barrel (at 8.5V from the factory) and the other is USB output at 5V... look at the USB adapter cable above, you can see the output end is the USB power insertion point (data pass through) and input end is a USB connector.
 The other standard cable supplied with the low power unit is a 2.1 to 2.1 barrel connector.
  
 The higher powered more expensive TeraDak has a single 2.1 DC barrel output, (so that interesting USB adapter cable will not work on the high power TeraDak). My guess is TeraDak can supply the correct cable to allow the high power unit to supply 5V via the USB insertion method if you request. If I were ordering it as such, I would photoshop the excellent photos above to create an input DC 2.1 barrel to output USB power insert/data pass through cable image and send that to TeraDak. All the correct TeraDak LPS model names are well defined above.
  
 Not sure, but I would think they are on New Year holiday until Feb. 15 minimum..  
  
 I have no DIY experience, but I would guess the cap replacement requires soldering.. I think that requires some training and experience when working with serious mains power....


----------



## funch

Here's my solution to a linear PS for the Regen. It's an AMB Sigma 11 (diy) that outputs 7.4VDC.


----------



## motberg

I recently replaced my Regen with the Intona isolator device, but noticed that Alex from UpTone commented that the Regen should work well between the Intona and the DAC or DDC.
 OK.... but I wanted to preserve the isolation the Intona supplies, so it is my understanding a battery PS for the Regen should work OK.
  
 With some luck, I found a 9V rechargeable battery PS used for guitar effects pedals. Here is the link for anyone interested.
  
 http://www.joyoaudio.com/en/product/show_155.html  
  
 (It was only around 50 USD purchased here in China)
  
 ..............from the website..............
  
 Joyo JMP-01 Portable Power Supply
 Power nearly as clean as a standard battery; perfect representation of your original sound.
 Regulated output power design; voltage remains stable during use.
 Rechargeable battery (6600mAh)，can be re-charged over 1000 times;2000mA output capacity facilitates the application of multiple devices.
 LED indicators show in three levels how much power is left.
 Power on/off switch--no need to unplug cables.
 Operation is easy and safe, thanks to functions like short circuit protection and overheat protection
 ...........................................
  
 I have been using this battery pack for a couple days now and seems to work as advertised and no problems powering the Regen (I was using a 2.5A 9V TeraDak LPS for the Regen prior to the Intona). 
 I disconnect the Joyo charger when listening (at 300ma use - battery running time is stated at 7 hours.). During system warm-up (which is 24/7 when I am "home") I leave the Joyo charger plugged in (not sure if that is a good idea)..   
 Initial observation is that the battery pack sound is OK, similar to the LPS, but the Intona makes such a big improvement in my system that it is hard to compare directly. (I think I have a post over at the Intona thread)
 Note my Intona is also powered by battery.. a PPA 5V battery pack powering a PPA v2 card which goes via PPA split cable to the Intona. Cables are a 0.5M Pangea from the Intona to the Regen and a 17CM PPA Regen Link from the Regen to my DDC. I will post a review of the sound in a few days.. but so far I would say that in my system the Regen does offer some improvement for my listening preferences when used in addition to the Intona.
  
 Important info ---> if anyone wants to try this battery pack is that THE CENTER PIN ON THE JOYO OUTPUTS IS NEGATIVE - THE REGEN IS POSITIVE CENTER PIN.
 This is not a problem in practice because the Joyo kit includes a polarity reversing 2.1mm power extension cable... everything is well explained in the Joyo manual.. the battery pack is plug-and-play with the Regen as long as you use the polarity reversing cable...


----------



## elviscaprice

Good job, Motberg.  At the end of the month I will be doing the same set up with my Hugo.  But I will do the JKenny battery modification (3.3V) to the Regen and avoid the 5V output since my Hugo doesn't need it.  Would love to hear your impressions with and without the Regen/Intona.


----------



## Angular Mo

Regarding cost-effective clean power for the Regen.

Would a battery such as this one be a viable solution?


XTPower MP-10000 External Battery Pack with 10000mAh using dual USB 5V and DC 9V / 12V 2A output for many devices. Wall and Car Charger included. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00935L44E/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_Kd3Twb9DS1Q6S


----------



## rb2013

Quote:


funch said:


> Here's my solution to a linear PS for the Regen. It's an AMB Sigma 11 (diy) that outputs 7.4VDC.


 
  
 Nice unit - does it have adjustable voltage?
  
  
  


angular mo said:


> I am confused between the two Teradak power supplies people use for the Regen, and their respective accessories (cables) they come with. If I recall correctly there is one that costs around USD 75 and the other for USD 150. I must be confused because it seems to me the lower cost one comes with that very interesting USB cable.
> 
> So I need some help on these two Teradaks, in addition to the URL for those Panasonic 1500uf capacitors; do they just plug into the Teradak's board? Or is there soldering involved?


 
 There is another solution that has worked really well for me - use the LightSpeed 2G split USB cable - one leg for data only to the Regen the other power leg can be left up plugged if you are going straight into the Regen's ext power connector.  Or you can feed a Li Ion battery or separate linear power supply plugging in the 2G power leg there.
 Very flexible.  The advantage of the first route - is complete galvanic isolation!  If you use a VBUS blocker between the PC USB and the data leg.  I modded a Jitterbug by opening it up and clipping the 1 and 4 leads - now absolutely no ground (completely severed from the PC USB bus) or power into the 2G data leg. 
  
 Works  like a charm and sounds amazing - surprising what an improvement by using a VBUS blocker on the Regen -with a split USB cable.  The purity is amazing.  The Regen is fed from a completely separate LPS with a dedicated AC line conditioner that isolates it fro the rest of the house grid by using a discrete differential and common mode filtering.  And packet noise generated inside the DDC or Regen is trapped.


----------



## rb2013

Just finished the Panisonic FR recapping on the TeraDak DC-30W (3300uf) - sounds awesome on the Regen - well worth the $15 for the caps and a half hour of soldering.
  
 Before:

  
 After:

  
 The advantage of the pannie FR's - much lower impedance, mush higher ESR - 10,000hr life vs 2,000hrs


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> funch said:
> ...




Hi rb2013,

Do you have any picture or description on how to open up the AQ Jitterbug? I have plans to cut pin no 1 & 4 as well. Blocking just the 5v using SBooster VBUS Isolator is not good enough for me. I am using Entreq Minimus external grounding and I get the feeling that Jitterbug is somehow interfearing with it. It starts good but the sq slowly but surely gets dull after a while with the Jitterbug in the USB line. It is like it is removing all the good things I get with the external grounding. Everything is just fine without it...but since I initially (but not in the long run) get a good sq with 5v block I get the feeling that cutting both pins will be a good thing in my case as well. I want to try it out before I put it in the drawer collecting dust.


----------



## funch

rb2013 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Nice unit - does it have adjustable voltage?


 
  
 Yes, sorta. You would have to replace a resistor and diode, but they could be socketed if you wanted to zero in on a particular voltage.
  
 http://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> Hi rb2013,
> 
> Do you have any picture or description on how to open up the AQ Jitterbug? I have plans to cut pin no 1 & 4 as well. Blocking just the 5v using SBooster VBUS Isolator is not good enough for me. I am using Entreq Minimus external grounding and I get the feeling that Jitterbug is somehow interfearing with it. It starts good but the sq slowly but surely gets dull after a while with the Jitterbug in the USB line. It is like it is removing all the good things I get with the external grounding. Everything is just fine without it...but since I initially (but not in the long run) get a good sq with 5v block I get the feeling that cutting both pins will be a good thing in my case as well. I want to try it out before I put it in the drawer collecting dust.


 
 Sure - now some DAC's or DDC's need a USB power handshake to activate the USB data feed - so a split USB cable works great for that.  Just plug in the power leg to get the music flowing then disconnect.
  

  


 Hard to see but I cut the 1 and 4 on the USB female as the JB needs to see the power leads.
  


funch said:


> Yes, sorta. You would have to replace a resistor and diode, but they could be socketed if you wanted to zero in on a particular voltage.
> 
> http://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/


 
 How much was it?  I have high hopes the iPower will be an easy, low cost, and great sounding solution to powering the Regen
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761310/ifi-audio-ipower-universal-ultra-low-noise-ac-dc-adapter


----------



## funch

I think around $120 for all the parts.


----------



## Cornan

> Sure - now some DAC's or DDC's need a USB power handshake to activate the USB data feed - so a split USB cable works great for that. Just plug in the power leg to get the music flowing then disconnect.
> 
> Hard to see but I cut the 1 and 4 on the USB female as the JB needs to see the power leads.




I was wondering how you actually opened the Jitterbug? Cracked the plastic body apart with a knife and glued it together?
I am quite sure cutting pin no 4 will not work in my case. I am already running single USB line with no 5vbus power with Elijah Audio BPM adapter before the Jitterbug and Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite 160 after the Regen (In a week or so I will be running K-Lite both before an after). But reading the CA Vbus Isolator thread http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/vbus-isolator-sbooster-26228/index2.html there is a slim chance of it working on star ground. 



Just a crazy experiment for me to do before desciding what to do with my Jitterbug.

Edit: just so anyone else reading this understands as well. I am planning to do this experiment when I have received my Elijah Audio Konvertible 500mm. The Konvertible Lite have unshielded data wires. Since I have a star ground this could potensially be a good thing in my case. Using single shielded USB cables cutting the GND could work but could also mean that you have a ground loop and will most likely sound bad. If it works with unshielded cables you are sure that there is no ground loop present.


----------



## rb2013

funch said:


> I think around $120 for all the parts.


 
 Not bad - thought of building one around this DIYinHK board - http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/88-08uv-ultralow-noise-dac-power-supply-regulator-91215v-15ax2.html
  


cornan said:


> I was wondering how you actually opened the Jitterbug? Cracked the plastic body apart with a knife and glued it together?
> I am quite sure cutting pin no 4 will not work in my case. I am already running single USB line with no 5vbus power with Elijah Audio BPM adapter before the Jitterbug and Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite 160 after the Regen (In a week or so I will be running K-Lite both before an after). But reading the CA Vbus Isolator thread http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/vbus-isolator-sbooster-26228/index2.html there is a slim chance of it working on star ground.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes - just pried it open with a screw driver then super glued back together.  Took 10 mins.


----------



## dmbr

Does anyone have an idea of how a TerDak X1/X2 Linear PSU would compare to an iPower when powering a Regen?


----------



## abartels

funch said:


> I think around $120 for all the parts.


 
 Not bad - thought of building one around this DIYinHK board - http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/88-08uv-ultralow-noise-dac-power-supply-regulator-91215v-15ax2.html
  
  
 Be careful, it's output is 0.5A only, if needed more amperage you need bigger heatsinks and fans,,,,,,


----------



## 514077

elviscaprice said:


> Good job, Motberg.  At the end of the month I will be doing the same set up with my Hugo.  But I will do the JKenny battery modification (3.3V) to the Regen and avoid the 5V output since my Hugo doesn't need it.  Would love to hear your impressions with and without the Regen/Intona.


 

 Just checking; doesn't the Hugo need 5V for the initial handshake?


----------



## elviscaprice

uelong said:


> Just checking; doesn't the Hugo need 5V for the initial handshake?


 
  
 Most do.  There was a batch made in Spring of 2014 without the needed handshake.  I have one of those units.  You could test if yours is one by taping the 5V pin.


----------



## rb2013

dmbr said:


> Does anyone have an idea of how a TerDak X1/X2 Linear PSU would compare to an iPower when powering a Regen?


 

 I have an iPower on the way - 9VDC - so I can compare to the X1/X2 power supply (mine has upgraded pannie FR caps).


----------



## 514077

elviscaprice said:


> uelong said:
> 
> 
> > Just checking; doesn't the Hugo need 5V for the initial handshake?
> ...


 

 Thanks.  I could check the serial number.  Do you have-or be willing to tell me-yours?  I bought mine in 06/2014.


----------



## elviscaprice

uelong said:


> Thanks.  I could check the serial number.  Do you have-or be willing to tell me-yours?  I bought mine in 06/2014​


 
  
 Just before you, I bought in 04/2014 .  It's easy to test, just tape over that 5V pin (Only) and see if the Hugo plays.


----------



## abartels

Hi,
  
 for the ones who are interested, I started a new thread about USB interfaces since U12 thread was closed.
 Feel free to subscribe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/797881/digital-usb-interfaces-xmos-or-amanero-combo384-based-reviews-comparison-modifications-and-usb-audio-in-general
  
  
  
 Regards,
  
 Alex


----------



## guzmanatm

After reading all the reviews and feedback available for both the Wyrd & USB Regen, I've decided to pull the trigger on the Regen! I really like the smaller footprint of the Regen and how it will easily fit into my audio chain. As a bonus, I have confirmed my order will be included in the mid-February shipment as indicated on the UpTone Audio website.
  
 Thanks to everyone in this thread for helping make my decision. I'm looking forward to receiving my new device and test driving it in the coming days. Cheers!


----------



## Michael P

Hi All, a couple of initial impressions of the K-lite cables
 The first is for the K-lite 160, the second 160 & 500
  

 I have been unable to "burn in" I only have about 4-5 hrs. it seems to provide more detail but overall not superior to Wireworld Starlight .3m. I will keep you informed.
 I'm using a Schiit Bifrost Multi Bit DAC and it will not work without ground.
 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
  Straight out of the box it's a lively cable & one that digs deep into the music to drag out lots of detail. I'm hearing things that I've not heard before in some of my music which is always nice but it also takes a bit of time to get used to. I have them with both 5 v cable +/- & to my ear & in my set up, I can't hear any diff.
  Compared to your original Elijah cable (Aurelic Aries Mini > REGEN USB > Curious cable > PS Audio DAC), your new cables don't allow anywhere for poor recordings to hide which is a testament to the detail these cable find but I think I need to keep playing them for a few more hours so they settle in (due you expect a burn in time, is there such a thing with USB cables?).
  The only issue I have at this early stage is whether they're too analytical & whether they just show up other issues in my system? I'm also not sure whether the bass has reduced a tad or whether it's just more controlled but I'll keep listening to them.
  By way of coincidence, I've also found out that with my Aurelic Aries Mini it's best to switch the oversampling off on my PS Audio DAC. 
  I'm also going to trial the shorter cable (link) in my 2nd set-up which will be direct from my Mac Mini & into my Klein DAC so it maybe easier to compare directly against the Curious cable.
  
 And a pic of the first batch of 160's ordered and ready for shipping tomorrow
  
 Michael


----------



## Cornan

Here is my impressions of the Konvertible Lite 500 w/o 5v lead posted the other day on Uptone USB Regen CA thread if someone is interested.

Now I have had the Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite 500 w/o 5v lead for a couple of days. Just as I expected it did concur my Vertere Acoustic Pulse D-Fi v2 USB cable with SBooster VBUS Isolator. For anyone not aware of the Vetere Acoustics I suggest you Google around. The difference was'nt as obvious as changing Regens solid adapter to the Konvertible Lite 160. That was a vast difference with just about everything sounding so much better. Mind blowing! The change from Vetere+VBus Isolator was more like another jump into the depth of the music. The sence of space became more pronounced and detailed. The echos became more spacious and unfamiliar details became crystal clear. Everything sounds very smooth and natural to my ears. As said the changes was more subtile with the K-Lite 500 w/o 5v in front of the Regen than the 160 w/o 5v after the Regen...but it all adds up to an amazing couple IMHO. It adds up to the very best sound that I have ever heard on my setup. That really mean a lot to me! Thanks Michael at Elijah Audio. Your cables are both very affordable and amazing! ￼

I recommend anyone to try the K-Lite range. Michael is a really nice and honest man with top notch quality cables. He have a 60 days satisfaction guarantee on his his cables. No questions asked. Just be careful with them and you will have absolutely nothing to loose. I promise you will never return them. Just Remember. For a good reason the data wires is not shielded so be careful not to cross any power or ground wires in the path and make sure to separate the 5v & GND wires as much as possible. Otherwise you may defeat the purpose of the capasitive coupling along the lenght of the wire that these cables are suppose to cure. This is one of the things that makes this range so special as well as the detachable 5v wire that works with any DAC...handshake or not.

If you are a lazy reader I will make it easy with a short sentence. Try it...or be sorry! ￼

Here are two pictures of both cables in my setup. No good pictures I am afraid...but I hope you can see them clear enough!


----------



## Michael T

I just received my USB Regen today. More detail, blacker background while still keeping the music toe tapping. It's as if I'm in the city and looking at stars and I can't see anything with the light pollution... then someone shuts down the power grid for the entire city. It's pitch black and I can see the stars again. Damn they're beautiful. 
  
 Thank you Alex and John.


----------



## rb2013

After much experimenation I have found the Regen and the PUC2 Lite DDC a fantastic combination!  The PUC2 needs USB power and using a TeraDak X1 (with a Cerious Tech power cord) fed through the Regen is simply outstanding.
  
 I have ordered an iFi DC iPurifier to run between the Regen and the TeraDak (set to 7.5VDC) linear power supply.  This should clean up the power even further.
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-dcipurifier/
  
 And also an iPurifier2 to try between the Regen and the PUC2 lite.  Just to see:
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-dcipurifier/


----------



## paulchiu

rb2013 said:


> After much experimenation I have found the Regen and the PUC2 Lite DDC a fantastic combination!  The PUC2 needs USB power and using a TeraDak X1 (with a Cerious Tech power cord) fed through the Regen is simply outstanding.
> 
> I have ordered an iFi DC iPurifier to run between the Regen and the TeraDak (set to 7.5VDC) linear power supply.  This should clean up the power even further.
> http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-dcipurifier/
> ...


 
  
 got a link to PUC2 lite?
  
 also, have you tried the Uptone power supply, the JS-2 with Regen?


----------



## dmbr

rb2013 said:


> After much experimenation I have found the Regen and the PUC2 Lite DDC a fantastic combination!  The PUC2 needs USB power and using a TeraDak X1 (with a Cerious Tech power cord) fed through the Regen is simply outstanding.
> 
> I have ordered an iFi DC iPurifier to run between the Regen and the TeraDak (set to 7.5VDC) linear power supply.  This should clean up the power even further.
> http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-dcipurifier/
> ...


 Good stuff!

I use this chain with great results:

PC > iFi Mercury USB cable > iPurifier2 > iUSB (with iPower PSU) > iFi Gemini Dual USB cable without power cable plugged in > Uptone Regen (Teradak X1/X2 PSU) > included solid connector > Xonar Essence One

Eagerly awaiting a K-lite 160 cable to replace the questionable solid connector included with the Regen. The E1 DAC requires a handshake but no USB power after that, so hoping for results not just from superior build quality but also the removal of the 5v charge.

The iPurifier2 stacks nicely with the Regen, and it's a worthy upgrade to the iPurifier. I think you'll be happy with it!

I've ordered another iPower for the Regen, as it supposedly is quieter than Linear PSU's like my Teradak. I'll report back when I get it 

I have a Jitterbug, but found it only thinned out the bass...stick it in the adjacent USB port instead.


----------



## Superdad

dmbr said:


> I use this chain with great results:
> 
> PC > iFi Mercury USB cable > iPurifier2 > iUSB (with iPower PSU) > iFi Gemini Dual USB cable without power cable plugged in > Uptone Regen (Teradak X1/X2 PSU) > included solid connector > Xonar Essence One


 
  
 I think you might get better results feeding the iPurifier2 from the iUSB instead of the other way around.  Won't be much of a difference but it should be a little better for the signal integrity of what you feed your REGEN with.
  
 Just something to try…
  
 --Alex C.


----------



## dmbr

superdad said:


> I think you might get better results feeding the iPurifier2 from the iUSB instead of the other way around.  Won't be much of a difference but it should be a little better for the signal integrity of what you feed your REGEN with.
> 
> Just something to try…
> 
> --Alex C.


 Funny you say that! I almost noted why I placed it before. I've tried ordering the Regen, iPurifier2, and iUSB in all different combinations, but it's a rather maddening process.

I asked about the ordering in another thread here and iFi recommended putting the iPurifier2 before the iUSB *if* your DAC draws any power at all from USB, even for a handshake...which my self-powered E1 does need. My ears agreed with iFi.

However, the k-lite 160 should essentially take the handshake out of the equation and allow me to place the iPurifier2 after the iUSB as you recommended


----------



## Superdad

dmbr said:


> Funny you say that! I almost noted why I placed it before. I've tried ordering the Regen, iPurifier2, and iUSB in all different combinations, but it's a rather maddening process.
> 
> I asked about the ordering in another thread here and iFi recommended putting the iPurifier2 before the iUSB *if* your DAC draws any power at all from USB, even for a handshake...which my self-powered E1 does need. My ears agreed with iFi.
> 
> However, the k-lite 160 should essentially take the handshake out of the equation and allow me to place the iPurifier2 after the iUSB as you recommended


 

 Well the REGEN ignores the pin-1 5VBUS line anyway (it provides very clean and quiet VBUS out using the best-in-class 1A TI TPS7A4700 regulator and a few caps), so neither the iPurifier2 or the iUSB ever see any draw from their VBUS line.
  
 In fact, when using a REGEN (n its correct/best place as the last item before the DAC), unless you put the iUSB before the iPurifier2, then the iUSB really is not doing ANYTHING for your chain.  When you look at the iUSB board, you can see the data lines going straight from input to output--nothing but jacks and traces.  And while the iUSB may produce a very clean 5VBUS voltage (hopefully better than the REGEN given all the room and circuitry they have), it is ignored by the REGEN--and you don't even run it since you say you don't connect the power leg of your Gemini cable out of the iUSB.
  
 Just sayin'...


----------



## dmbr

superdad said:


> Well the REGEN ignores the pin-1 5VBUS line anyway (it provides very clean and quiet VBUS out using the best-in-class 1A TI TPS7A4700 regulator and a few caps), so neither the iPurifier2 or the iUSB ever see any draw from their VBUS line.
> 
> In fact, when using a REGEN (n its correct/best place as the last item before the DAC), unless you put the iUSB before the iPurifier2, then the iUSB really is not doing ANYTHING for your chain.  When you look at the iUSB board, you can see the data lines going straight from input to output--nothing but jacks and traces.  And while the iUSB may produce a very clean 5VBUS voltage (hopefully better than the REGEN given all the room and circuitry they have), it is ignored by the REGEN--and you don't even run it since you say you don't connect the power leg of your Gemini cable out of the iUSB.
> 
> Just sayin'...


 ouch...

I just tried putting the iPurifier after the iUSB and it won't function (lights off) without plugging in both the power and audio ends of the connected Gemini cable. I'm not sure what this means...

To be clear, you'd recommend removing the iUSB + Gemini and using the Mercury > iPurifier2 > Regen > k-lite > DAC configuration then?

Thanks 

Edit: re-reading the iFi overview, it does look like the IsoPower and IsoEarth features might provide some benefits, no?


----------



## Cornan

dmbr said:


> superdad said:
> 
> 
> > Well the REGEN ignores the pin-1 5VBUS line anyway (it provides very clean and quiet VBUS out using the best-in-class 1A TI TPS7A4700 regulator and a few caps), so neither the iPurifier2 or the iUSB ever see any draw from their VBUS line.
> ...


 
 Since the USB Regen is blocking ALL power coming in from the USB source there is actually no point using ANY power before the Regen. Due to the capacitive coupling *inside the USB cable* (negative interference between power and data since they all being very close to each other) there is however a good point having NO power before the USB Regen. Any improvements (if any) with iUSB and iPurifier2 in front of the Regen would be in the data and ground lines only. A short USB cable is also important. The only way for you to tell if it is beneficial or not for your sound is to try it your self. The outcome very much depends on your system and your own sound preferences.
  
 Blocking the power AFTER the USB Regen is just as important. The reason is still the same, ie capacitive coupling. However, judging by the sound improvement by removing the supplied short adapter (which should have minimal capacitive coupling) I *guess* that it in some way also reduces the capacitative coupling inside the USB Regen itself as well. Please understand that this is my assumption only. All I know is that here is definitely a great improvement blocking the power in the USB cable AFTER the Regen as well. However, when you receive your Konvertible Lite 160 you will find out the SQ difference your self. I personally love that cable! 
  
 I would recommend that you start simple with *Gemini (no power leg)>USB Regen>K-Lite160>DAC *and after you have listen to familiar tracks you add the *iUSB>iPurifier2>Mercury* and listen to the very same tracks. Choose what you think sounds the best in your system. However, I am not sure if Gemini have the GND wire together with power or together with data wires? If Gemini have the ground wires together with the power wires you will not be able to do the simple setup since GND is needed for the handshake....and no GND is not beneficial for the sound unless you are using a star ground and unshielded USB cables (K-Lite is unshielded but Gemini/Mercury is not).


----------



## zilch0md

cornan said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just a clarification:  
  
 I'm sure that when you wrote...
  


> Blocking the power AFTER the USB Regen is just as important.


 
  
 ... you meant:   
  
 Blocking the power AFTER the USB Regen is just as important _when using a DAC that is self-powered - that does not require 5V power from the USB cable_.


----------



## rb2013

dmbr said:


> Good stuff!
> 
> I use this chain with great results:
> 
> ...


 

 Just got a iUSB  2.0 and using the new 1uV iPower to feed it tried using it to feed the PUC2 Lite vs the Regen/TeraDak X1 (upgraded Pannie HW caps and Cerious Tech Graphene power cord).  The Regen/LPS is a major setup.
  
 So will try the coming iPurifier2 to try with the iUSB 2.0 and the Regen to see the effect (according to iFi the iPurifier2+the iUSB 2.0 = about 80% of a iUSB 3.0), the addition of the DC iPurifier should reduce the noise of the TeraDak to iPower levels - but without the switching distortion or noise.
  
 I have a 9 VDC iPower - but that is higher voltage then the Regen limit of 8VDC.  May overheat the regs.  So have not tried it on the Regen.  Would be nice if iFi made a 7 VDC version.
  
 Good success with the Jitterbug (modded to a VBUS +5VDC blocker) in between the Lightspeed 2.0 split data leg and PC.


----------



## Cornan

> Just a clarification:
> 
> I'm sure that when you wrote...
> 
> ...


 
 Yes of course! It just gets so monotonous writing "that does´nt need 5v power and/or handshake" in every other sentence. Thanks for making it clear for everyone!


----------



## zilch0md

^ I thought I would "head them off at the pass."


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> Well the REGEN ignores the pin-1 5VBUS line anyway (it provides very clean and quiet VBUS out using the best-in-class 1A TI TPS7A4700 regulator and a few caps), so neither the iPurifier2 or the iUSB ever see any draw from their VBUS line.
> 
> In fact, when using a REGEN (n its correct/best place as the last item before the DAC), unless you put the iUSB before the iPurifier2, then the iUSB really is not doing ANYTHING for your chain.  When you look at the iUSB board, you can see the data lines going straight from input to output--nothing but jacks and traces.  And while the iUSB may produce a very clean 5VBUS voltage (hopefully better than the REGEN given all the room and circuitry they have), it is ignored by the REGEN--and you don't even run it since you say you don't connect the power leg of your Gemini cable out of the iUSB.
> 
> Just sayin'...


 
 My thinking is the iPurifier2 should be at least as accurate as far as impedence as the Regen adpater - not like a USB cable.  And it may add additional benefits from it's reclocking (anyone have any idea on the clocks they use?) and filter functions.  Or maybe not - so the ears will tell the story.
  


cornan said:


> Since the USB Regen is blocking ALL power coming in from the USB source there is actually no point using ANY power before the Regen. Due to the capacitive coupling *inside the USB cable* (negative interference between power and data since they all being very close to each other) there is however a good point having NO power before the USB Regen. Any improvements (if any) with iUSB and iPurifier2 in front of the Regen would be in the data and ground lines only. A short USB cable is also important. The only way for you to tell if it is beneficial or not for your sound is to try it your self. The outcome very much depends on your system and your own sound preferences.
> 
> Blocking the power AFTER the USB Regen is just as important. The reason is still the same, ie capacitive coupling. However, judging by the sound improvement by removing the supplied short adapter (which should have minimal capacitive coupling) I *guess* that it in some way also reduces the capacitative coupling inside the USB Regen itself as well. Please understand that this is my assumption only. All I know is that here is definitely a great improvement blocking the power in the USB cable AFTER the Regen as well. However, when you receive your Konvertible Lite 160 you will find out the SQ difference your self. I personally love that cable!
> 
> I would recommend that you start simple with *Gemini (no power leg)>USB Regen>K-Lite160>DAC *and after you have listen to familiar tracks you add the *iUSB>iPurifier2>Mercury* and listen to the very same tracks. Choose what you think sounds the best in your system. However, I am not sure if Gemini have the GND wire together with power or together with data wires? If Gemini have the ground wires together with the power wires you will not be able to do the simple setup since GND is needed for the handshake....and no GND is not beneficial for the sound unless you are using a star ground and unshielded USB cables (K-Lite is unshielded but Gemini/Mercury is not).


 
 Yes - that capacitive coupling issue maybe why I'm getting good results by using a VBUS blocker modded Jitterbug at the PC USB for the data line feed on the 2G split cable.


----------



## Cornan

Since I have'nt been clear enough in some details I want to clear out any issues so no one new to this thread missunderstand my points:

1. USB Regen ignores any power coming in and do not need any incoming power what so ever since it supplies the USB power needed for the DAC. No need to worry about anything. Any DAC will work with a USB cable without 5v power before the USB Regen. Removing 5v power is a great improvement for any DAC and works for everyone.

2. USB Regen do supply the power after the USB Regen for any DAC that needs both power and handshake. Cutting the power is very beneficial after the USB Regen as well but there are a few things to keep in mind here:
* If your DAC needs the power
* If your DAC needs the handshake
The most simple to test if your DAC does'nt need any of these are to cover USB pin no 1 with electrical tape. If everything works your DAC does'nt need power or handshake. Great! Just go ahead and cut the USB power! 

However, If your DAC does'nt work you will need to dig in a little deeper by checking threads about your perticular DAC and/or asking the manufacturer what is needed for your specific DAC.

Let us say that your DAC do not need the power but requires a handshake. Now you will need to know that both power and GND is needed for the handshake...but is just needed a brief moment during the handshake. The handshake is done when the driver is recognized by your computer/source. When the driver is recognized it is OK to remove the power from the USB cable for better SQ.

Now comes a problem. What cable to use? Right now there is only one cable that I know of that could do this for you unless you make a DIY cable. If you do not have DIY skills check out the Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite.

Last issue will be the GND (ground). Is there a way to connect just data wires between your computer/sourse and the Regen/DAC without GND? Yes there is...but it is fairly complicated. You will need to make sure that you have a proper star ground and unshielded cables between the computer/source and Regen/Dac. Before you try it out make sure to cover pin 4 on the USB cable to check if it works without the ground. However, it could work if you have a ground loop as well...so making sure that there is no ground loop present and that you have a proper star ground is essential for success here! If not properly done you will only experiance a bad sound...but with a proper setup you will have the best sound possible. Well worth a persue if you ask me. I am not there yet...but I am slowly heading there!

I hope this will help to clear things up a bit! Good luck!


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> Since I have'nt been clear enough in some details I want to clear out any issues so no one new to this thread missunderstand my points:
> 
> 1. USB Regen ignores any power coming in and do not need any incoming power what so ever since it supplies the USB power needed for the DAC. No need to worry about anything. Any DAC will work with a USB cable without 5v power before the USB Regen. Removing 5v power is a great improvement for any DAC and works for everyone.
> 
> ...


 

 I cut the VBUS +5VDC and the Ground leads on a Jitterbug USB output - so it acts as both a ground disconnect and a VBUS blocker.  $49 and a simple 15 min operation.  It works great and sounds amazing. 
  




 I just clipped the 1 and 4 pins on the out bound USB connector (the jitterbug needs power to function).  So only the data leads are active.  This works great with the 2g Split cable - and with or without the Regen.   Just run the data only line after the modded JB plugged in to the PC.  With the Regen it supplies the USB with power (if needed).  Or without the Regen just plug the power leg of the 2G into a Li Ion battery or LPS power source set for 5VDC.


----------



## Cornan

@rb2013 Thanks. I think you would be interested in this thread http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/vbus-isolator-sbooster-26228/
Very interesting read about cutting the GND.


----------



## Superdad

rb2013 said:


> I cut the VBUS +5VDC and the Ground leads on a Jitterbug USB output - so it acts as both a ground disconnect and a VBUS blocker.  $49 and a simple 15 min operation.  It works great and sounds amazing.
> 
> I just clipped the 1 and 4 pins on the out bound USB connector (the jitterbug needs power to function).  So only the data leads are active.  This works great with the 2g Split cable - and with or without the Regen.   Just run the data only line after the modded JB plugged in to the PC.  With the Regen it supplies the USB with power (if needed).  Or without the Regen just plug the power leg of the 2G into a Li Ion battery or LPS power source set for 5VDC.


 
  
 Great, now you just need to cut out and jumper across the common-mode choke that the Jitterbug has on its data lines and it will sound even better.  Oh wait, after that and what you have already done to it, it will just be a USB A>A circuit board!


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


>


 

 I like the sound of the Jitterbug - I have a second unmodded in an open USB port .  They are not earth shattering - but add a bit of flow and ease to the proceedings.
  
 I use them in both my WIN10 iCore 7 main system and my WIN7 iCore 5 office system to good effect.
  
 So why would I want to cut their common mode filter for?????  I trust my ears and they Likey.


----------



## paulchiu

My Regen arrived about 12 hours ago.  I started testing it through my problematic chain of 2014 Macbook Pro 15" with 1TB internal flash card to Hugo to various headphones.
 Listening to tracks I have heard over 200-300 times on Shure 846, Telos fujisan and HiFiman he1000.
  
 Noticed right away, things are more quiet.  Heard on the hugo the lip parting of singers I get with Nagra HD DAC headamp.  A first time.
 More importantly, I opened the bluetooth of the Macbook Pro and did numerous I/Os with NAS and other USB3 chains without any clicks, pops or booms.
  
 So far, much better than the Audioquest Jitterbug in that regard. (alone in the picture)


----------



## zilch0md

rb2013 said:


> I like the sound of the Jitterbug - I have a second unmodded in an open USB port .  They are not earth shattering - but add a bit of flow and ease to the proceedings.
> 
> I use them in both my WIN10 iCore 7 main system and my WIN7 iCore 5 office system to good effect.
> 
> So why would I want to cut their common mode filter for?????  I trust my ears and they Likey.




He was just kidding.


----------



## guzmanatm

I understand no jitterbugs, iPurifiers, or 'decrapifiers' should be placed between the Regen and DAC in order to receive the greatest benefits in terms of signal integrity and impedance matching that the Regen provides. With that in mind would connecting a Regen directly to the iFi Micro iDSD, which has iPurifier built in, defeat the purpose of using the Regen? Technically there would be no devices between the Regen and Micro iDSD, but does the fact that the iPurifier technology is still in the audio chain reduce or blunt the positive effects that the Regen is supposed to be providing?


----------



## rb2013

zilch0md said:


> He was just kidding.


 

 Well tongue in cheek.  OP are great guys and have excellent customer service.  But have a certain - 'attitude' shall we say. 
  
 The cutting of the VBUS output pins on the Jitterbug in no way diminishes it's true purpose of reducing noise on the USB bus.  Using a modded one to also act as a VBUS block is just another benefit.  Certainly more elegant then his suggestion of taping over the pins.
  
 Just sayn'
  
 Now suggesting a JC-1 LPS (a fine unit - but $925) to power a $200-$400 USB bridge is well a little extravagant in my book. 
  
 Or comparing a $59 new USB DDC (the Rui Yi Audio X1) to a $2800 one is well let's say apples and oranges.
  
 Here it the new X1 using the latest XMOS processor the XU208 (twice the through put as the U8) and ultra low noise USB and audio clocks, 4 layer board, etc...
  


> *Product Description:*
> 
> X-1 digital interface of our team to develop a high-performance USB digital audio interface, using the XMOS latest xCORE-200 series chips. X-1 is the rare Japanese KDS low jitter TCXO clock digital system interface. X-1 digital interface using standard USB2.0  input interface, while X-1 has a wealth of output interfaces, including coaxial RCA and I2S interfaces.
> 
> ...


 
 I ordered one to see how it sounds with or without the Regen.  $59 - is silly cheap.


----------



## BernieK

michael p said:


> Hi Bernie, I am arranging with a local Adelaide customer (using Curious link between Regen/DAC) to audition/compare a K-lite 160 and a K-lite 500( between PC/Regen) I will post his comments ASAP
> Michael


 
  
 Hi Michael,
  
 Saw some preliminary comments about the Elijah Konvertible Lite vs the Curious Cables, but nothing solid since. How's the comparison going?
  
 Cheers,
  
 Bernie


----------



## dmbr

guzmanatm said:


> I understand no jitterbugs, iPurifiers, or 'decrapifiers' should be placed between the Regen and DAC in order to receive the greatest benefits in terms of signal integrity and impedance matching that the Regen provides. With that in mind would connecting a Regen directly to the iFi Micro iDSD, which has iPurifier built in, defeat the purpose of using the Regen? Technically there would be no devices between the Regen and Micro iDSD, but does the fact that the iPurifier technology is still in the audio chain reduce or blunt the positive effects that the Regen is supposed to be providing?


 I'd be quite interested in the answer to this question myself.

But how do you "know" that no other cleaning devices should be added to the chain?


----------



## Michael P

Hi Bernie, nothing yet, but keeping my fingers crossed for a report by the end of this week


----------



## zilch0md

dmbr said:


> I'd be quite interested in the answer to this question myself.
> 
> *But how do you "know" that no other cleaning devices should be added to the chain?*


 


Spoiler: Corrections that were applied to my original post.



 
 The question you meant to ask is: *"But how do you 'know' that no other cleaning devices should be inserted between the USB Regen and the DAC?"   *
  
 This is the imperative everyone is referencing and it comes directly from Uptone Audio. Alex Crespi and John Swenson have emphasized this in many posts, both in the USB Regen threads on Computeraudiophile and here in this thread.  
  
 It has also been stressed by Uptone Audio that *the connection between the USB Regen and DAC should be kept as short as possible*.  
  
 Lastly, Uptone Audio has stressed the need to* use cables that maintain a 90-Ohm impedance*.  As a manufacturer, Supra USB cables seem to be obsessed with this specification, as you cannot get them to cut you cable of just any length you desire until they've had time to tweak a prototype to achieve the 90-Ohm spec. The spec is assured for their ready-made cables.
  
 I wouldn't know how to measure a cables intrinsic impedance, so I think most of us just have to hope for the best regarding the 90-Ohm requirement.
  
 I've wandered into a discussion of cables, but I feel there's a need for what will hopefully be seen as concise summary of the options:
  
 The USB Regen ships with a short "solid" adapter, but several people have found that some cables that are nearly as short sound better, and that using a 3-wire cable that lacks the +5V wire (when using DACs that don't require power from the USB cable) improves the sound as well - as does blocking the +5V pin of a 4-wire cable, at the source.  There's a lot of testimony out there encouraging both solutions - again, for DACs that do not pull power from the USB cable, but also for supplying data to the USB Regen itself, which does not pull any power from the USB cable.  Many people have found that blocking the +5V ping of the Regen's USB input cable, or going to a 3-wire cable to feed the USB Regen, improves the sound for all DACs - even though the USB Regen blocks power coming in from the USB cable - due to capacitive coupling of the +5V wire with the data wires, when not blocked or removed completely.
  
 The Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite 160 allows you to disconnect the +5V wire at will - for DACs that never require power from the USB source and even after first allowing a DAC that only needs to see power during a handshake with the source to do so.  There are other short, three-wire cables to be found, if you don't need a cable that can be converted at will, but reducing the proximity of the GND wire to the two data wires has also gained a lot of popularity - as with the Curious USB Cable - but the Curious Cable does not distance the +5V wire from the data wires - it only does so with the GND wire.  *The* Curious USB Cable *does not block +5V, but it does distance the +5V wire from the data and GND wires - to reduce noise.*
  
 So... we have a lot of people out there who have reported improvements by blocking the +5V pin at the source, as when using the SBooster VBus Isolater or by using 3-wire or a "Konvertible" cable to remove the +5V wire altogether when the DAC does not require power from source (and when supplying data to the USB Regen on the input side).
  
 And... we have a lot of Curious Cable fans who have reported improvements had by distancing the GND *+5V* wire from the data wires.
  
 To my knowledge, only the Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite 160 offers both *the following three* features - distancing the GND wire and your choice of distancing or removing the 5V wire.  The 160 is ideal for running between the USB Regen and the DAC, where the longer lengths are ideal for supplying data to the USB Regen - instead of buying a long Curious Cable (to distance the GND *+5V* wire) *or* in combination with a VBus Isolator (to block the +5V at the source.)
  
 I've not yet purchased an Elijah Audio Konveritble Lite (for spending my audio budget on other projects at the moment), but to me, it makes a lot of sense as a design that delivers all the features that have been heralded piece meal in other cables. I also have a lot of confidence in Cornan's impressions - having followed his advice several times with other products and/or techniques and never being disappointed. 
  
 As to other USB "middleware" devices - by all means, buy them and try them yourself, keeping them on the input side of the USB Regen, between your source and the USB Regen.  There are so many variables that I think it silly to try to make a decision about whether these products will help your system, just from reading other people's impressions.  
  
 The USB Regen, however, seems to transcend this necessity, given that they've sold something like 2000 of them (or fast approaching that number?) and yet I've only read a handful of testimonies where someone said "it didn't do anything" for their system.  That's an extremely strong consensus, compared to most audio products.
  
 Mike 


  
 The question you meant to ask is: *"But how do you 'know' that no other cleaning devices should be inserted between the USB Regen and the DAC?"  *
  
 This is the imperative everyone is referencing and it comes directly from Uptone Audio. Alex Crespi and John Swenson have emphasized this in many posts, both in the USB Regen threads on Computeraudiophile and here in this thread.  
  
 It has also been stressed by Uptone Audio that *the connection between the USB Regen and DAC should be kept as short as possible*.  
  
 Lastly, Uptone Audio has stressed the need to* use cables that maintain a 90-Ohm impedance*.  As a manufacturer, Supra USB cables seem to be obsessed with this specification, as you cannot get them to cut you cable of just any length you desire until they've had time to tweak a prototype to achieve the 90-Ohm spec. The spec is assured for their ready-made cables.
  
 I wouldn't know how to measure a cables intrinsic impedance, so I think most of us just have to hope for the best regarding the 90-Ohm requirement.
  
 I've wandered into a discussion of cables, but I feel there's a need for what will hopefully be seen as concise summary of the options:
  
 The USB Regen ships with a short "solid" adapter, but several people have found that some cables that are nearly as short sound better, and that using a 3-wire cable that lacks the +5V wire (when using DACs that don't require power from the USB cable) improves the sound as well - as does blocking the +5V pin of a 4-wire cable, at the source.  There's a lot of testimony out there encouraging both solutions - again, for DACs that do not pull power from the USB cable, but also for supplying data to the USB Regen itself, which does not pull any power from the USB cable.  Many people have found that blocking the +5V ping of the Regen's USB input cable, or going to a 3-wire cable to feed the USB Regen, improves the sound for all DACs - even though the USB Regen blocks power coming in from the USB cable - due to capacitive coupling of the +5V wire with the data wires, when not blocked or removed completely.
  
 The Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite 160 allows you to disconnect the +5V wire at will - for DACs that never require power from the USB source and even after first allowing a DAC that only needs to see power during a handshake with the source to do so.  There are other short, three-wire cables to be found, if you don't need a cable that can be converted at will, the Curious USB Cable does not block +5V, but it does distance the +5V wire from the data and GND wires - to reduce noise.
  
 So... we have a lot of people out there who have reported improvements by blocking the +5V pin at the source, as when using the SBooster VBus Isolater or by using 3-wire or a "Konvertible" cable to remove the +5V wire altogether when the DAC does not require power from source (and when supplying data to the USB Regen on the input side).
  
 And... we have a lot of Curious Cable fans who have reported improvements had by distancing the +5V wire from the data wires.
  
 To my knowledge, only the Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite 160 offers the following three features - distancing the GND wire and your choice of distancing or removing the 5V wire.  The 160 is ideal for running between the USB Regen and the DAC, where the longer lengths are ideal for supplying data to the USB Regen - instead of buying a long Curious Cable (to distance the +5V wire) or in combination with a VBus Isolator (to block the +5V at the source.)
  
 I've not yet purchased an Elijah Audio Konveritble Lite (for spending my audio budget on other projects at the moment), but to me, it makes a lot of sense as a design that delivers all the features that have been heralded piece meal in other cables. I also have a lot of confidence in Cornan's impressions - having followed his advice several times with other products and/or techniques and never being disappointed. 
  
 As to other USB "middleware" devices - by all means, buy them and try them yourself, keeping them on the input side of the USB Regen, between your source and the USB Regen.  There are so many variables that I think it silly to try to make a decision about whether these products will help your system, just from reading other people's impressions.  
  
 The USB Regen, however, seems to transcend this necessity, given that they've sold something like 2000 of them (or fast approaching that number?) and yet I've only read a handful of testimonies where someone said "it didn't do anything" for their system.  That's an extremely strong consensus, compared to most audio products.
  
 Mike 
  
*5 March 2016 - Edits applied to correct my having thought the Curious Cable distances the GND wire from the data and +5V wires, when it actually distances the +5V wire from data and GND wires.*


----------



## paulchiu

zilch0md said:


> The USB Regen, however, seems to transcend this necessity, given that they've sold something like 2000 of them (or fast approaching that number?) and yet I've only read a handful of testimonies where someone said "it didn't do anything" for their system.  That's an extremely strong consensus, compared to most audio products.
> 
> Mike


 
  
 Do you know the sale totals for those USB wires you mentioned?
 Thanks,


----------



## Cornan

paulchiu said:


> zilch0md said:
> 
> 
> > The USB Regen, however, seems to transcend this necessity, given that they've sold something like 2000 of them (or fast approaching that number?) and yet I've only read a handful of testimonies where someone said "it didn't do anything" for their system.  That's an extremely strong consensus, compared to most audio products.
> ...


 
 Not many manufacturers out that are as official and clear as Uptone Audio when it comes to total sales :
  
http://uptoneaudio.com/products/usb-regen


> *The UpTone Audio USB REGEN™ just might be the next big leap for computer audio.*
> 
> _[The reviews from many of the over 2,500 people worldwide now using a REGEN are filled with excitement over how musically effective the device is.  Drop in on some thoughtful ones here at ComputerAudiophile.com:_* USB REGEN Listening Impressions.*_]_


----------



## paulchiu

cornan said:


> Not many manufacturers out that are as official and clear as Uptone Audio when it comes to total sales :


 
  
 Very true.  Alex at UpTone has answered all of my questions about his Regen as well as JS2 power supply since the Stereophile Magazine report.


----------



## Michael P

as with the Curious USB Cable - but the Curious Cable does not distance the +5V wire from the data wires - it only does so with the GND wire.
  
 The Curious cable is actually the reverse of the above statement - the 5V wire is distanced from the Data wires ( as a thin coaxial wire wrapped around the outer techflex shield) - It's the Gnd wire that is bundled with the Data wires inside the shield


----------



## Cornan

michael p said:


> as with the Curious USB Cable - but the Curious Cable does not distance the +5V wire from the data wires - it only does so with the GND wire.
> 
> The Curious cable is actually the reverse of the above statement - the 5V wire is distanced from the Data wires ( as a thin coaxial wire wrapped around the outer techflex shield) - It's the Gnd wire that is bundled with the Data wires inside the shield



Yes, the 5v lead is actually a coaxial contruction that is slightly twisted around the GND & data wires. I very much prefer your version with GND & 5v totally separated from the unshielded data wires Michael. I love the sound of your amazing cables! There is simply no turning back when you have listen to them!


----------



## Cornan

paulchiu said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Not many manufacturers out that are as official and clear as Uptone Audio when it comes to total sales :
> ...



Reading your profile I am really impressed by your wide range of well selected hardware. You are have an awesome setup...but still I would suggest that you give Elijah Audio's Konvertible Lite a chance. You will have a 60 days satisfaction guarantee so it is pretty safe to try. Michaels cables demands a great audio chain to shine...and just by looking at your profile I am sure you have reached the goal!


----------



## paulchiu

cornan said:


> Reading your profile I am really impressed by your wide range of well selected hardware. You are have an awesome setup...but still I would suggest that you give Elijah Audio's Konvertible Lite a chance. You will have a 60 days satisfaction guarantee so it is pretty safe to try. Michaels cables demands a great audio chain to shine...and just by looking at your profile I am sure you have reached the goal!


 
  
 Thank you sir.  I would add Elijah's wires probably after trying my order of half a dozen Curious cables of varying lengths.  Over the last three months, I have been making small changes, like cables, platforms, HIDEF downloads (up to 352K), battery vs AC, etc.  One add was the jitterbug.  Bought 3 and used all over the place.  Then added the Regen and it was noticeably better instantly.  Combo with jitterbug was a tiny bit better still.  Nagra is very sensitive to tiny changes.
 Anyway, after the Regen read more and landed on Curious.  So there is where I am at the moment.


----------



## Cornan

paulchiu said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Reading your profile I am really impressed by your wide range of well selected hardware. You are have an awesome setup...but still I would suggest that you give Elijah Audio's Konvertible Lite a chance. You will have a 60 days satisfaction guarantee so it is pretty safe to try. Michaels cables demands a great audio chain to shine...and just by looking at your profile I am sure you have reached the goal!
> ...




I fully understand and honour your journey. Just by curiousity. Did you choose battery or AC? I would personally choose battery any day!


----------



## paulchiu

cornan said:


> I fully understand and honour your journey. Just by curiousity. Did you choose battery or AC? I would personally choose battery any day!


 
  
 I tried AC, then a variety of battery (computer, car, military surplus, etc), AC again on the Regen.  Have at this moment the JS2 linear power supply on order for Regen and Mac Mini.  May even try the linear supply on other DAP while I am at it.
 So far, the Regen has been a Godsend.  I can, in the office listen to my PS1000e through the Hugo, connected to Regen, USBed to Macbook Pro while working with Excel, FinalCut and watching 4K movies on a connected HDMI monitor. The Hugo could not handle this previously.


----------



## Cornan

paulchiu said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > I fully understand and honour your journey. Just by curiousity. Did you choose battery or AC? I would personally choose battery any day!
> ...



Remember, at the same time as you are trying to acheive a multimedia setup you are locking out the true potensial of your audio setup. All gains in a multimedia setup is a lost in 2ch Audio IMHO. Do not combine everything. Treat it separate for best results. The one and only way to combine these are through Upnp/DNLA streaming. Make sure to use it! IF you have'nt heard about the Sonore microRendu be sure to check it out! http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonore-microrendu-ethernet-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-output-27389/


----------



## paulchiu

cornan said:


> Remember, at the same time as you are trying to acheive a multimedia setup you are locking out the true potensial of your audio setup. All gains in a multimedia setup is a lost in 2ch Audio IMHO. Do not combine everything. Treat it separate for best results. The one and only way to combine these are through Upnp/DNLA streaming. Make sure to use it! IF you have'nt heard about the Sonore microRendu be sure to check it out! http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonore-microrendu-ethernet-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-output-27389/


 
  
 Have you used one?


----------



## Michael P

Hi again Bernie and any other interested parties - just received this initial report from a second local tester
 Although  this tester slightly favours the Curious cable, I am happy to post all findings, regardless of whether they are  good, bad or indifferent..... because
  

  
  
  

 I am still listening to the cable to try and gauge it's "sound" but it does sound good.
 I use an Auralic Vega DAC with a Regen between it and the PC I employ to render files.
 The Vega does not need the 5vDC connection to be recognised so I have been using it without the power cable connected.
  
 My initial finding when I compare your cable to the Curious Cable is subtle differences that unfortunately favour the Curios Cable (CC).
 The two most obvious are sound stage and micro detail. With the CC the sound stage is bigger and a bit more spacious. Separation between voices/instruments is more distinct and so in tracks with lots going on it's easier to follow a background voice/instrument part and the space it occupies with the CC.
 This is related to the differences in micro detail in my view.  The CC allows you to hear micro details that add to the spaciousness of a track. In particular faint reverb cues that provide a sense of recording space are easier to hear with the CC and I believe it is this factor that adds to the sense of spaciousness. Similarly these micro details seem to project a more palpable image in particular with female vocals.
 Perhaps my Maggie 1.7's show this aspect up more than other speakers given their noted capability for creating a 3D soundscape.
  
 In other areas the two cables are very similar.  Differences in tonality, dynamics and musicality are difficult to detect and so I believe both cables do a great job.  Both cables present a very smooth rendition devoid of any harsh edges to higher frequencies. (I am particularly sensitive to edginess in the 1K to 3K band which I do not hear when listening to vinyl).  In this regard both cables are better than a lot of expensive cables out in the market. 
  
 I would like to keep listening to your cable for a couple of more weeks to ensure I have not underestimated it's capabilities however I can send it back to you if you prefer.
 Thank you for the opportunity to test out your cable which I think should do well especially for those that need the 5vDC disconnection capability to ensure a successful handshake between units


----------



## elviscaprice

I've found the JKenny mod (solder 3.3V Lipo 4 battery to Regen board, with 3.3V AC/DC converter to the battery) bypassing the 3.3V regulator to be the best sound I've ever achieved with the Regen.  The second big improvement was adding the Intona for galvanic isolation.  Thus making the follow up JKenny mod a necessity for maintaining ground isolation.  I found USB adapters the preferable choice for connection whenever possible along with a Supra USB Cable when necessary.
 Note: I do not need 5V handshake or power for my Chord Hugo.
  
  
JKenny mod


----------



## Cornan

paulchiu said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Remember, at the same time as you are trying to acheive a multimedia setup you are locking out the true potensial of your audio setup. All gains in a multimedia setup is a lost in 2ch Audio IMHO. Do not combine everything. Treat it separate for best results. The one and only way to combine these are through Upnp/DNLA streaming. Make sure to use it! IF you have'nt heard about the Sonore microRendu be sure to check it out! http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonore-microrendu-ethernet-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-output-27389/
> ...



No, the microRendu is still not released...but keep your eyes opened and read about the device. If John Swenson, Alex C and Jesus are right this could be a game changer.


----------



## BernieK

michael p said:


> Hi again Bernie and any other interested parties - just received this initial report from a second local tester
> Although  this tester slightly favours the Curious cable, I am happy to post all findings, regardless of whether they are  good, bad or indifferent..... because


 
 Hi Michael,
  
 Many thanks for posting the comments. Will there be more?
  
 Did the tester use the Konvertible Lite with and without it's 5V wire disconnected when comparing to the Curious? I ask because my Luxman DA-06 appears to need the handshake to see the source.
  
 Cheers,
  
 Bernie


----------



## zilch0md

paulchiu said:


> Do you know the sale totals for those USB wires you mentioned?
> Thanks,


 
  
 No.   ???
  


michael p said:


> as with the Curious USB Cable - but the Curious Cable does not distance the +5V wire from the data wires - it only does so with the GND wire.
> 
> The Curious cable is actually the reverse of the above statement - the 5V wire is distanced from the Data wires ( as a thin coaxial wire wrapped


 
  
 Thank you, Michael - I'll fix that in my previous post (above).  I went back and found this post at CA which confirms your statement:
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index126.html#post483757
  
 Mike


----------



## Michael P

Hi Bernie - as the poster mentions that he will continue listening for another couple of weeks,  there may be an update
 And still to hear from my Adelaide customer........
 Re: 5V lead - only mentions that he used the K lite with the 5V unplugged
 Michael


----------



## dmbr

Thanks for the thorough reply. 

I'm still not sure why stacking the Regen with the iPurifier2 wouldn't work, though. They do different things...except for reclocking, I don't see how they'd conflict.

I'll do some more listening comparisons of Regen + iPurifer2 vs Regen-only, and return with some impressions.


----------



## Michael P

Here is the link to a new post on Stereonet from a local Adelaide customer
 http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/99061-new-konvertible-lite-usb-cables/
  
 Michael


----------



## Cornan

michael p said:


> Here is the link to a new post on Stereonet from a local Adelaide customer
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/99061-new-konvertible-lite-usb-cables/
> 
> Michael



Nice review! His findings goes in pair with my own conclutions of the K-Lite.


----------



## BernieK

michael p said:


> Here is the link to a new post on Stereonet from a local Adelaide customer
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php/topic/99061-new-konvertible-lite-usb-cables/
> 
> Michael


 
  
 Hi Michael,
  
 Thanks for the link. Interesting review.
  
 Cheers,
  
 Bernie


----------



## hifimanrookie

anyone tried this cable yet with the regen?
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-gemini/


----------



## zilch0md

dmbr said:


> Thanks for the thorough reply.
> 
> *I'm still not sure why stacking the Regen with the iPurifier2 wouldn't work, though. They do different things...except for reclocking, I don't see how they'd conflict.*
> 
> I'll do some more listening comparisons of Regen + iPurifer2 vs Regen-only, and return with some impressions.


 
  


superdad said:


> *Not a good idea.  Will ruin both the signal integrity and the impedance match and will likely sound bad.  Please do not put anything--except your DAC--after the REGEN.  *
> 
> --Alex C.


----------



## dmbr

*after* the Regen, he said. I'm considering putting the iPurifier2 *before* the Regen


----------



## dmbr

hifimanrookie said:


> anyone tried this cable yet with the regen?
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-gemini/


Yes. Questions?


----------



## zilch0md

hifimanrookie said:


> anyone tried this cable yet with the regen?
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-gemini/


 
  
 I haven't, but I have a lot of respect for iFi's designs.  
  
 They need to reconsider this section from the marketing spiel on that page, however:
  


> Most USB Cables use moulded plastic covered connections. *Plastic cannot shield the high frequencies present in the USB Data link, so noise will radiate out.*


 
  
 They're saying that because most USB cables use plastic-bodied connectors, instead of their solid aluminium connectors,* "noise will radiate out"* from the plastic connectors.  This doesn't make any sense at all. Wouldn't we *want* noise that's already in the data wires to "radiate out?"  If plastic connectors can do that, then we should stick with those!  
  
  
 In the same paragraph, we find some more nonsense:
  


> *The FINAL USB connectors provides impeccable end-to-end RF shielding*, being machined entirely from solid aluminium.


 
  
 End-to-end RF shielding is provided by solid aluminum connectors?  Really?  
  
 So, now, not only do the aluminum connectors shield from incoming RF, where plastic connectors allow the noise to "radiate out," but by using aluminum instead of plastic, their cable "provides impeccable end-to-end RF shielding."   Wow.
  
 The blurb goes on to contradict itself when discussing their use of RF chokes tuned to three different RF frequency ranges. I think they're onto something here, but why does their cable need this feature when their solid aluminum connectors "provide impeccable end-to-end RF shielding?"
  
 The engineers at iFi must be face-palming when they read what their marketers write - if they're even asked to review it before publication.
  
 In short, I hate running into marketing nonsense when I'm trying to understand whether a product actually offers something its competitors lack.


----------



## zilch0md

dmbr said:


> *after* the Regen, he said. I'm considering putting the iPurifier2 *before* the Regen


 
  
  
 Oh...  Go for it!  
  
 I say, try anything and everything with or without the USB Regen, allowing your ears to tell you which is best for your system and your tastes, but understand that the USB Regen's greatest benefit happens inside the DAC's receiver (its USB 2.0 PHY chip) - reducing PHY noise that the DAC's receiver itself would generate when the signal integrity isn't as good as when the USB Regen is allowed to do its thing - with as little as possible between the USB Regen and the DAC.
  
 http://uptoneaudio.com/pages/j-swenson-tech-corner


----------



## Superdad

zilch0md said:


> The engineers at iFi must be face-palming when they read what their marketers write - if they're even asked to review it before publication.
> 
> In short, I hate running into marketing nonsense when I'm trying to understand whether a product actually offers something its competitors lack.


 
  
 That's funny Mike, and possibly true since their comparison page still shows their "DC iPurifier" as having a USB 2.0 hub chip--but that device for the DC power cable does not do USB at all! (Of course they mean their iPurifier 2, but they crank all this stuff out so fast that such errors have been common for their marketing.)
 Yet my hat is off to their marketing and graphics department as they are able to spin a LOT  of "advanced-tech" benefits out of the basic functioning of a decently clocked USB hub chip.
 I think these two are my favorites:
  

 All of those "wonderful" things are done by the REGEN as well--just a byproduct of hub chip, low-jitter clock, careful power network and board design, and ultra-low-noise voltage regulators.  No "military radar technology" required. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
 As for the use of USB3.0 hub chips, those noisy things are the last thing we would want active when handling USB2.0 audio speeds.  Anyone here have a need for 5Gbps transmission of audio? The 480Mbps of USB2.0 is still vastly faster than even the highest bit rate DSD or PCM audio data.
  
 Sorry to be catty.  This is not my usual style at all.  But this is the USB REGEN thread so I figure I can at least highlight similarities and differences between products.  I certainly can't out-marketeer anyone.  I'd rather just be honest about how our popular device works--pure and simple...


----------



## dmbr

superdad said:


> That's funny Mike, and possibly true since their comparison page still shows their "DC iPurifier" as having a USB 2.0 hub chip--but that device for the DC power cable does not do USB at all! (Of course they mean their iPurifier 2, but they crank all this stuff out so fast that such errors have been common for their marketing.)
> Yet my hat is off to their marketing and graphics department as they are able to spin a LOT  of "advanced-tech" benefits out of the basic functioning of a decently clocked USB hub chip.
> I think these two are my favorites:
> 
> ...


 So what does the iPurifier2 indeed do that the Regen doesn't and vice versa, exactly?


----------



## Superdad

dmbr said:


> So what does the iPurifier2 indeed do that the Regen doesn't and vice versa, exactly?


 

 Well I have not listened to or dissected the iPurifier2, but one difference versus the REGEN is that it is entirely bus-powered, so it can not output a new VBUS voltage (even with a regulator, 5V in would have to drop down to some lower voltage--that's how regulators work).  Whereas the REGEN has two ultra-low noise TI TPS7A4700 regulators--one at 3.3V for its hub chip, and one at 5V to deliver up to 1A clean 5VBUS out (not that any normal USB2.0 is allowed to draw more than 500mA--but some do).


----------



## funch

I decided, with all the talk about the power running in a USB cable affecting the sound, to make one using only two wires for data. It uses #22 shielded SPC wire,
 and connects my laptop to the Regen. I still need to cover the plugs with heatshrink, but it sounds great.


----------



## Cornan

funch said:


> I decided, with all the talk about the power running in a USB cable affecting the sound, to make one using only two wires for data. It uses #22 shielded SPC wire,
> and connects my laptop to the Regen. I still need to cover the plugs with heatshrink, but it sounds great.



Nice work funch!


----------



## slex

superdad said:


> That's funny Mike, and possibly true since their comparison page still shows their "DC iPurifier" as having a USB 2.0 hub chip--but that device for the DC power cable does not do USB at all! (Of course they mean their iPurifier 2, but they crank all this stuff out so fast that such errors have been common for their marketing.)
> Yet my hat is off to their marketing and graphics department as they are able to spin a LOT  of "advanced-tech" benefits out of the basic functioning of a decently clocked USB hub chip.
> I think these two are my favorites:
> 
> ...




Hi superdad, may i know if there is an upcoming version of your product with galvanic isolation in the making?

I know you have an USB high speed isolator from coolgear, any comments? I did email thier tech support and got an reply "Most of our isolators use optical isolation, but this specific product uses another method
called "Capacitive Isolation", but it is classified as galvanic isolation because there is
no electrical path directly from one side to the other.

Here are some details on the chip we use to accomplish it:
http://www.silanna.com/usb.html


----------



## zilch0md

Relaying the question embedded within the post, above:
  
 Quoting slex: 





> Hi superdad, may i know if there is an upcoming version with high speed galvanic isolation with your superior USB signal application?
> 
> I know you have in hand a coolgear High Speed galvanic isolator utilizing the new silanna chip . Any comments of this new product? I have email thier tech support and got an reply:
> 
> ...


----------



## zilch0md

funch said:


> I decided, with all the talk about the power running in a USB cable affecting the sound, to make one using only two wires for data. It uses #22 shielded SPC wire,
> and connects my laptop to the Regen. I still need to cover the plugs with heatshrink, but it sounds great.


 
  
 That's a beautiful cable!  Apparently, your DAC doesn't require the GND wire for a handshake - but some DACs might not work without the GND.
  
 Here are some John Swenson posts (from CA) on the subject of DIY USB cables:
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index41.html#post427754
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/diy-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-cable-possibilities-23688/#post405461
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/diy-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-cable-possibilities-23688/#post406016
  
  
 Mike


----------



## Cornan

> Apparently, your DAC doesn't require the GND wire for a handshake - but some DACs might not work without the GND


 
 Not entirely. If funch have the shield connected at both ends this will actually work as a ground connection and it most likely the reson why it works...even though I would recommend to have unshielded data wires and a separate ground wire on a distance. If the shield is just connected at one end he is most likely having a ground loop.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 With that said it is actually possible to have unshielded data wires between the source and the DAC but that will require a proper star ground. Here is a CA thread in that subject. Look at Karin´s (SBooster) reply to R_W. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/vbus-isolator-sbooster-26228/index2.html


----------



## Superdad

slex said:


> Hi superdad, may i know if there is an upcoming version of your product with galvanic isolation in the making?


 
  
 You guys make it very hard to keep cats in a bag!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Please read this post:  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/which-one-buy-uptone-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-regen-or-intona-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-isolator-26815/index14.html#post520085
  
 I am not going to answer more questions about it, but will say that galvanic isolation is but one of a bunch of great sounding enhancements.  But price (due to significant added parts cost) will be $100 higher.


----------



## Luckbad

superdad said:


> You guys make it very hard to keep cats in a bag!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh gawd. Fine! Put me down for Unit #1! ?  !?


----------



## paulchiu

superdad said:


> You guys make it very hard to keep cats in a bag!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I 'll take #2


----------



## funch

zilch0md said:


> That's a beautiful cable!  Apparently, your DAC doesn't require the GND wire for a handshake - but some DACs might not work without the GND.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 I forgot to mention that the cable connects my laptop to a M2Tech HiFace Evo USB to S/PDIF converter. It then connects to my Yggy through
 an AES/EBU cable. DIY of course.


----------



## slex

superdad said:


> You guys make it very hard to keep cats in a bag!  :rolleyes:
> 
> Please read this post:  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/which-one-buy-uptone-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-regen-or-intona-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-isolator-26815/index14.html#post520085
> 
> I am not going to answer more questions about it, but will say that galvanic isolation is but one of a bunch of great sounding enhancements.  But price (due to significant added parts cost) will be $100 higher.




That will be still cheaper then your Regen+Intona. Any included linear power supply?


----------



## V1001

I got my USB Regen last week. I was excited by how good it sounded. I went to post on Audiogon expecting a big active thread, and to my surprise there was a thread that was long dead and barley any posts. I made my post thinking it would get revived. But....nothing. Trying to share something that can really help and really is a massive deal. No one seems to care. I swear I don't know what's up with that group sometimes. 
  
 Anyway I'll just copy here what I posted:
  


> I got this last week. I somehow came across it in a google search. Started reading all about the UpTone Regen. Was very Skeptical. Thought maybe it was just for cheap systems. I mean how can something so cheap improve far more expensive gear? But read a ridiculous amount of positive feedback on it. From people with gear ranging from cheap to absolutely amazing. And pretty much unanimously every single person loved it.
> 
> Still Skeptical but willing to open my mind and try it. I lucked out and got in right when he was sending more out. So got it in a couple days.
> 
> ...


 
  
 On that note without having to read 60 pages here what is the consensus on upgrading the power supply for it? Does it help and what one to use? (I'm not paying $900 for that one on the regen site).


----------



## dmbr

v1001 said:


> I got my USB Regen last week. I was excited by how good it sounded. I went to post on Audiogon expecting a big active thread, and to my surprise there was a thread that was long dead and barley any posts. I made my post thinking it would get revived. But....nothing. Trying to share something that can really help and really is a massive deal. No one seems to care. I swear I don't know what's up with that group sometimes.
> 
> Anyway I'll just copy here what I posted:
> 
> ...


 Highly recommend the iFi iPower; it outperforms my Teradak X1/X2 LPS by a long shot, and it's only $50


----------



## Luckbad

@V1001
  
 ComputerAudiophile has a very active / official thread for the Regen. I troll both here and there.


----------



## Hi Rez

v1001 said:


> On that note without having to read 60 pages here what is the consensus on upgrading the power supply for it? Does it help and what one to use? (I'm not paying $900 for that one on the regen site).


 
  
 Yes - it helps.  UpTone is near to announcing details on a new power supply that can be used for the Regen.  There is a decent chance it will be available later this spring.  If you are not in an absolute rush, it might be worth waiting until details on the technology / price for their new unit is out.


----------



## rb2013

dmbr said:


> Highly recommend the iFi iPower; it outperforms my Teradak X1/X2 LPS by a long shot, and it's only $50


 

 I agree the iPower is very good - I use one on my Wryd Remedy - at least equal to the bigger R-Core TeraDak DC-30W.  Just be careful on using a 9VDC iPower on the Regen - if your USB bridge takes it's power off the Regen's USB power leads (like my PUC2 Lite) it will likely overheat.  The quoted range on the Regen is 6-8VDC, so 9VDC is technically outside it's range - but may still work in some cases.  To bad iFi only makes a 5VDC and 9VDC version - they need a 7VDC as well.
  
 The TeraDak DC-30W has adjustable voltage.
  
 My iFi iPurifier2 and DC iPurifier have been on back order from Music Direct for a month - anybody know somebody whoi has them in stock in the US?


----------



## Luckbad

rb2013 said:


> I agree the iPower is very good - I use one on my Wryd Remedy - at least equal to the bigger R-Core TeraDak DC-30W.  Just be careful on using a 9VDC iPower on the Regen - if your USB bridge takes it's power off the Regen's USB power leads (like my PUC2 Lite) it will likely overheat.  The quoted range on the Regen is 6-8VDC, so 9VDC is technically outside it's range - but may still work in some cases.  To bad iFi only makes a 5VDC and 9VDC version - they need a 7VDC as well.
> 
> The TeraDak DC-30W has adjustable voltage.
> 
> My iFi iPurifier2 and DC iPurifier have been on back order from Music Direct for a month - anybody know somebody whoi has them in stock in the US?


 
  
 Have you checked with Avatar Acoustics? They're the official US partner.
  
 http://www.avataracoustics.com/home.html


----------



## V1001

Cool I'll try the ifi power. When a new regen power comes out I'll check that out too, sure I can find a place to stick whichever extra one I choose over the other.


----------



## dmbr

rb2013 said:


> I agree the iPower is very good - I use one on my Wryd Remedy - at least equal to the bigger R-Core TeraDak DC-30W.  Just be careful on using a 9VDC iPower on the Regen - if your USB bridge takes it's power off the Regen's USB power leads (like my PUC2 Lite) it will likely overheat.  The quoted range on the Regen is 6-8VDC, so 9VDC is technically outside it's range - but may still work in some cases.  To bad iFi only makes a 5VDC and 9VDC version - they need a 7VDC as well.
> 
> The TeraDak DC-30W has adjustable voltage.
> 
> My iFi iPurifier2 and DC iPurifier have been on back order from Music Direct for a month - anybody know somebody whoi has them in stock in the US?


 Not to press anyone to throw caution to the wind, but this quote is taken directly from the official Uptone Regen page:

"use a nice linear if you want—in the range of 6-9V/1.5A is fine; or even 12V if you are certain that your DAC is not deriving much power from USB bus"

My DAC is indeed self-powered.


----------



## Superdad

dmbr said:


> Not to press anyone to throw caution to the wind, but this quote is taken directly from the official Uptone Regen page:
> 
> "use a nice linear if you want—in the range of 6-9V/1.5A is fine; or even 12V if you are certain that your DAC is not deriving much power from USB bus"
> 
> My DAC is indeed self-powered.


 

 Yes, even if you have the rare DAC/HA that draws the full USB allowed 5V current limit of 500mA (0.5 amps), the 4 volt drop from 9V in to 5V out will only result in 2 watts of heat that the regulator and board have to dissipate.  That is more than the 1.25W being thrown off when using our supplied 7.5V PS, but it is still okay.  Very few of you have DACs drawing anywhere near 500mA, so you are quite safe to use a 9V supple with the REGEN (just make sure it is a REGULATED supply, not some random transformer/diode/cap brick).  
  
 The REGEN does not draw much current but we chose the 2.93A/22W Mean Well because its greater output capacitance made it sound better than any of the other candidate warts and bricks we tried.  But I agree the iPower does sound better than our stock supply.  Nothing like a really great LPS, but very nice for the $49 price.


----------



## CFGamescape

rb2013 said:


> I agree the iPower is very good - I use one on my Wryd Remedy - at least equal to the bigger R-Core TeraDak DC-30W.  Just be careful on using a 9VDC iPower on the Regen - if your USB bridge takes it's power off the Regen's USB power leads (like my PUC2 Lite) it will likely overheat.  The quoted range on the Regen is 6-8VDC, so 9VDC is technically outside it's range - but may still work in some cases.  To bad iFi only makes a 5VDC and 9VDC version - they need a 7VDC as well.
> 
> The TeraDak DC-30W has adjustable voltage.
> 
> My iFi iPurifier2 and DC iPurifier have been on back order from Music Direct for a month - anybody know somebody whoi has them in stock in the US?


 

 What's a Wyrd Remedy?


----------



## Superdad

cfgamescape said:


> What's a Wyrd Remedy?


 

 Here are some weird remedies: http://mentalfloss.com/article/53330/17-bizarre-natural-remedies-1700s


----------



## Luckbad

Doing some A/B testing right now:
  
 Headphones: Sennheiser HD650
 Amplifier: Garage1217 Project Sunrise III with 6H6P-I tube
 DAC #1: MHDT Atlantis w/ GE 5 Star 5670 White Triple Mica tube
 DAC #2: MHDT Atlantis w/ GE 5 Star 5670 White Triple Mica tube connected via the UpTone Regen
 Switcher: Schiit Sys
 Software: JRiver with two zones outputting simultaneously in a bitperfect direct connection via linked zones
  
 The tubes on the DACs are a matched pair and without the Regen, they are completely indistinguishable.
  
 Both are using their stock (el cheapo) power and usb cables and blue jeans RCA cables.
  
 I randomly connected the RCA connectors initially. The dacs are to the left of my computer and amp and switcher are to the right.
  
 I was able to identify the DAC with the Regen within a few seconds of playing my test tracks. To verify I was correct, I pulled the left RCA channel out of the dac with the Regen plugged in and, sure enough, I lost sound out of the left ear.
  
 It's cleaner with a blacker background. It seems to be most noticeable on higher resolution tracks, perhaps because my DACs are non-oversampling.
  
 Additionally--and this is the objective part--inserting the Regen allows me to connect the Atlantis to my USB DAC-UP ports with no 5V power coming out of the computer. Without it in line, I can't connect.


----------



## rb2013

luckbad said:


> Have you checked with Avatar Acoustics? They're the official US partner.
> 
> http://www.avataracoustics.com/home.html


 
 Thanks!
  


dmbr said:


> Not to press anyone to throw caution to the wind, but this quote is taken directly from the official Uptone Regen page:
> 
> "use a nice linear if you want—in the range of 6-9V/1.5A is fine; or even 12V if you are certain that your DAC is not deriving much power from USB bus"
> 
> My DAC is indeed self-powered.


 
 No worries then.
  


cfgamescape said:


> What's a Wyrd Remedy?


 
 Wyred For Sound Remedy is a S/PDIF reclocker - it uses the ultra low phase noise Cyrstek CCHD-957 clocks.  Working great on my heavily modded R2R DAC60.
 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/wyred/1.html
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/740362/lite-dac60-pcm1704-r2r-tubed-dac-mod-project
  


superdad said:


> Here are some weird remedies: http://mentalfloss.com/article/53330/17-bizarre-natural-remedies-1700s


 
 Nothing can be weirder then audio remedies!  Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 LOL!


----------



## dmbr

Just wanted to check back in and say: the iPurifier2 definitely stacks nicely when fed into the Regen. I still don't understand why, but adding the iPurifier2 to the chain makes the sound richer and increases depth. Maybe I'm just nuts, but I've done enough listening to say that conclusively for my own setup and ears


----------



## rb2013

dmbr said:


> Just wanted to check back in and say: the iPurifier2 definitely stacks nicely when fed into the Regen. I still don't understand why, but adding the iPurifier2 to the chain makes the sound richer and increases depth. Maybe I'm just nuts, but I've done enough listening to say that conclusively for my own setup and ears


 

 Good feedback - have you tried it after the Regen?


----------



## CFGamescape

rb2013 said:


> Wyred For Sound Remedy is a S/PDIF reclocker - it uses the ultra low phase noise Cyrstek CCHD-957 clocks.  Working great on my heavily modded R2R DAC60.
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/wyred/1.html
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/740362/lite-dac60-pcm1704-r2r-tubed-dac-mod-project


 
 Oh, my bad. Thanks for links!


----------



## dmbr

rb2013 said:


> Good feedback - have you tried it after the Regen?


 Yes, and as expected, I much prefered having the Regen after the iPurifier2.

I'll also note I get *slightly* better results with an iFi iUSB + Gemini feeding the iPurifier2. Maybe the purifier performs better when given cleaner power, as the Regen does with a superior PSU? Not worth the money for the small margin of improvement though, I'd say.


----------



## rb2013

dmbr said:


> Yes, and as expected, I much prefered having the Regen after the iPurifier2.
> 
> I'll also note I get *slightly* better results with an iFi iUSB + Gemini feeding the iPurifier2. Maybe the purifier performs better when given cleaner power, as the Regen does with a superior PSU? Not worth the money for the small margin of improvement though, I'd say.


 

 I have a iFi USB waiting - it wasn't even close to the TeraDak DC-30W feeding the PUC2 lite without the Regen.  With the Regen fed by the DC-30W feeding the PUC2 Lite miles ahead.
  
 Been waiting for the iPurifier2 to see how that in combination with the iFi USB2.0 compares.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## zilch0md

rb2013 said:


> Good feedback - have you tried it after the Regen?


 
  
 Sacrilege!


----------



## rb2013

zilch0md said:


> Sacrilege!


 

 I can't help it - I'm a Rebel by nature!


----------



## canali

boy is this an exploding field...
 and i'm like the rest of you: wanting good sound.
 but sometimes you just have to wonder if there is any
 voodoo science to some of these claims...or how 
 much of markup there is.
  
 uptone regen
 there there is the iFi micro iusb 3.0
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iusb3-0/
 and then the more newly released iusb nano 3.0
  http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/nano-iusb3-0/
  
 then this one I also came across:
 wyred4sound recovery, out a few months  now.
 https://wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/recovery


----------



## Superdad

canali said:


> boy is this an exploding field...
> and i'm like the rest of you: wanting good sound.
> but sometimes you just have to wonder if there is any
> voodoo science to some of these claims...or how
> ...


 
  
 No voodoo, we laid it all out from the start--and then others started paying attention and riffing on the concept.
  
 As for mark-up:  After taxes this year I made approximately $58 profit per complete REGEN kit.  Was supposed to be better, but I did not anticipate entering the 45%+ bracket (33% Fed, 9.3% state, and then self-employment tax and LLC fees). And I work 7 days a week.


----------



## paulchiu

Goodies from Australia.
 Curious Cables by Rob!
 Including the Regen adaptor.


----------



## canali

superdad said:


> No voodoo, we laid it all out from the start--and then others started paying attention and riffing on the concept.
> 
> As for mark-up:  After taxes this year I made approximately $58 profit per complete REGEN kit.  Was supposed to be better, but I did not anticipate entering the 45%+ bracket (33% Fed, 9.3% state, and then self-employment tax and LLC fees). And I work 7 days a week.


 
 thanks...appreciate the imput.
  
 this area of more intricate electronics, math and physics surrounding this area
 is beyond many of us...all you have to do is see, even on here, much discussion
 (and often at odds in various forums, i've found)
 on the efficacy of these devices ...sometimes i feel that unless you have an engineering degree in electronics
 it can be hard to understand and properly engage in educated discussion.
  
 one headfier sent me this interesting reply to a thread i started:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/802190/usb-conditioners-a-growing-field#post_12434773
  
 B_y far the best usb treament is to isolate the ground between the source (eg pc), and the dac._

_Cleaning power and reclocking are nice, but are an order of magnitude less effective than true isolation,_
_including the ground. The ground is a power supply feed as well.

 Isolation comes in several forms, galvanic (tranformer based, solutions I've seen tap out at 92 khz), optical (pricey), silicon.

 In my system in lowered the noise floor (quite audibly), and significantly cleaned up the audio quality._
_Theyre especially effective if the source is safety grounded (3 prong ac plug)_


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> No voodoo, we laid it all out from the start--and then others started paying attention and riffing on the concept.
> 
> As for mark-up:  After taxes this year I made approximately $58 profit per complete REGEN kit.  Was supposed to be better, but I did not anticipate entering the 45%+ bracket (33% Fed, 9.3% state, and then self-employment tax and LLC fees). And I work 7 days a week.


 

 33% Federal Bracket 9.3% Ca State - that takes some pretty great income - Congrats!


----------



## Superdad

rb2013 said:


> 33% Federal Bracket 9.3% Ca State - that takes some pretty great income - Congrats!


 

 Thanks, but it's all getting sunk right back into the business, for new products and the new building for production space.  And the bit extra that I pay myself for our household budget goes right out to try to cover our college kids' tuitions.  Only new toy I bought myself last year was a pair of Rythmik F12G subwoofers (still waiting to be hooked up).
  
 Can't wait to get some of these new products out!  The radical new 1A LPS (now in its 7th month of development, including an FPGA and a microSD card?) is getting closer every day, and we are almost ready to spill the beans about its tech.  And there will be another surprise, hopefully before the summer.


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> Thanks, but it's all getting sunk right back into the business, for new products and the new building for production space.  And the bit extra that I pay myself for our household budget goes right out to try to cover our college kids' tuitions.  Only new toy I bought myself last year was a pair of Rythmik F12G subwoofers (still waiting to be hooked up).
> 
> Can't wait to get some of these new products out!  The radical new 1A LPS (now in its 7th month of development, including an FPGA and a microSD card?) is getting closer every day, and we are almost ready to spill the beans about its tech.  And there will be another surprise, hopefully before the summer.


 

 I wish you guys great success!  My two sons finished college a few years ago - OH What a feeling!  Engineers -so both have great jobs - even state universities are expensive today - esp in the state of Washington - like $11K per year in state at UW.
  
 1A LPS...


----------



## nordkapp

Hey guys, new to this thread. My new Regen is expected to be in my possesion by month's end. It will be powered by a Bryston BIT, fed data from JRMC 21 via an AMD (A6-7000) cpu in my laptop. It in turn it will feed an Concero HD DAC. The DAC is usb, 5v powered. Question - I've read a lot of glowing reviews about it but does it truly live up to the hype? I am a bit skeptical but figured if I wasn't impressed I could turn around and sell it. Any real world, honest opinions will be openly and gratefully accepted. Thnx.


----------



## paulchiu

nordkapp said:


> Hey guys, new to this thread. My new Regen is expected to be in my possesion by month's end. It will be powered by a Bryston BIT, fed data from JRMC 21 via an AMD (A6-7000) cpu in my laptop. It in turn it will feed an Concero HD DAC. The DAC is usb, 5v powered. Question - I've read a lot of glowing reviews about it but does it truly live up to the hype? I am a bit skeptical but figured if I wasn't impressed I could turn around and sell it. Any real world, honest opinions will be openly and gratefully accepted. Thnx.


 
  
 it is not hype. Used it and has improved with much of my gear.
 not much to add beyond what has been said above.


----------



## nordkapp

paulchiu said:


> it is not hype. Used it and has improved with much of my gear.
> not much to add beyond what has been said above.


 
 If you don't mind, improved in what ways?


----------



## paulchiu

nordkapp said:


> If you don't mind, improved in what ways?


 
  
 For my setup, I get:
 1. isolation from computer I/Os and router inference.
 2. quieter backgrounds, thus improving DR.
 3. improved sound field.


----------



## nordkapp

paulchiu said:


> For my setup, I get:
> 1. isolation from computer I/Os and router inference.
> 2. quieter backgrounds, thus improving DR.
> 3. improved sound field.


 
 Oh man. Nice. Thnx. Can't wait.....


----------



## V1001

So last night I decided to change cables around a bit. Not sure why I didn't try this before. Usually I try everything. I only had one good USB cable. The Audioquest Carbon. I had that feeding the Regen. And the cheap 6" after the Regen. I decided to reverse them. It was a HUGE improvement. Everything was incredibly more dynamic. Instrument separation is razor sharp. Super taut and fast bass. I thought it was great before but wow it was like I got a new DAC. The power and effortlessness was incredible.  
  
 It's strange because when I first got the Carbon with no Regen it's a nice rounded improvement. Same thing with putting it before the Regen compared to typical USB wires. Just a nice rounded improvement. But now putting it after the Regen it's a massive improvement. (and the jitterbug is still the first piece in the chain)
  
 Late last night I had to go and order another Audiquest carbon to use before the Regen so I have a carbon wire on both ends now (should be here tomorrow). I gotta tell you that is an impressive USB cable too. Wish I could pull the trigger on the all silver Diamond cable. But I can't bring myself to do it. And I have to say these modded nuforce reference amps are ridiculously fast and powerful. I don't think any other amps compare to their dynamics and power. I think I'm really seeing them shine like they should without being held back by how bad stock USB is. 
  
 Just one more piece to add to the chain. The Ifi ipower. Which is still out of stock everywhere fore some reason in the states. After that I'll have almost $550 in just my USB implementation. Which is crazy thinking I was skeptical and reluctant to just buy my original Carbon wire when I started looking into USB. Now I feel it's the best money spent. Although now I wonder why I'm using USB at all and maybe just didn't pick up an optical cable instead and maybe bypassed all the bad USB issues altogether. Now I wonder if I would have had this great sound from the start had I done that instead, and for a lot cheaper. Could it had been better just using optical?


----------



## paulchiu

v1001 said:


> So last night I decided to change cables around a bit. Not sure why I didn't try this before. Usually I try everything. I only had one good USB cable. The Audioquest Carbon. I had that feeding the Regen. And the cheap 6" after the Regen. I decided to reverse them. It was a HUGE improvement. Everything was incredibly more dynamic. Instrument separation is razor sharp. Super taut and fast bass. I thought it was great before but wow it was like I got a new DAC. The power and effortlessness was incredible.
> 
> It's strange because when I first got the Carbon with no Regen it's a nice rounded improvement. Same thing with putting it before the Regen compared to typical USB wires. Just a nice rounded improvement. But now putting it after the Regen it's a massive improvement. (and the jitterbug is still the first piece in the chain)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wait,what DAC are you using here and you are hearing better sound placing a longer USB cord between Regen and DAC?
 Should be better sound with a shorter cord between Regen and DAC.
 BTW, AQ Diamond is worth listening to once or twice, just so you have a reference point.


----------



## V1001

paulchiu said:


> Wait,what DAC are you using here and you are hearing better sound placing a longer USB cord between Regen and DAC?
> Should be better sound with a shorter cord between Regen and DAC.
> BTW, AQ Diamond is worth listening to once or twice, just so you have a reference point.


 
 Nuforce DAC 9. 
  
 Shorter cables should always be better but not when the shorter cable is not even remotely as good of quality. The carbon wire even though being longer is probably just a far better conductor and less resistance, especially with the silver they use in the wire. Trust me I tried it and bought different short lengths of USB cables to try and beat it out and try in different places. I have the shortest carbon you can get too. It's not really to long anyway. The carbon is just far superior in quality and build.


----------



## paulchiu

v1001 said:


> Nuforce DAC 9.
> 
> Shorter cables should always be better but not when the shorter cable is not even remotely as good of quality. The carbon wire even though being longer is probably just a far better conductor and less resistance, especially with the silver they use in the wire. Trust me I tried it and bought different short lengths of USB cables to try and beat it out and try in different places. I have the shortest carbon you can get too. It's not really to long anyway. The carbon is just far Superior.


 
  
 The best sound should be your source to your short AQ Carbon, to Regen, then to the male/male USB A/B solid adapter plug UpTone Audio includes, connected to the Nuforce DAC.
  
 I have tried various combinations, including 0.75m AQ Diamond from source to Regen, then aforementioned stub to DAC as well as Curious Cables Regen connector to DAC.  This combination is noticeably quieter, more impacting and holographic than just straight AQ Diamond.  I may even dare to say the Regen combo is nearly as good as Crystal Cables Dreamline USB.
 I am waiting for more Curious Cables to test with Regen at the moment.


----------



## V1001

paulchiu said:


> The best sound should be your source to your short AQ Carbon, to Regen, then to the male/male USB A/B solid adapter plug UpTone Audio includes, connected to the Nuforce DAC.
> 
> I have tried various combinations, including 0.75m AQ Diamond from source to Regen, then aforementioned stub to DAC as well as Curious Cables Regen connector to DAC.  This combination is noticeably quieter, more impacting and holographic than just straight AQ Diamond.  I may even dare to say the Regen combo is nearly as good as Crystal Cables Dreamline USB.
> I am waiting for more Curious Cables to test with Regen at the moment.


 
 I tried the hard adapter. But it was causing problems. Either with the adapter or from the weight of everything sticking out the back. I was getting this really bizarre sound that was super soft and muted sound with no dynamics at all. It hangs out the back and pulls to hard on the DAC input and kind of bends it down at an slight angle. It can't be good for it and I think it causes the contacts to not seat right. I don't have any place to try to hold it up either as it hangs out the back of the shelf, and don't like it that way anyway. So I prefer having a wire and setting the Regen where I want on the shelf.
  
 From reading on here it seemed people slightly liked the hard adapter better than the short USB cable, and then others say that wires like the curious are even better than the hard adapter. So I think the carbon seems about right to sound better than the hard adapter when comparing what others tried. But mine sounds more dramatic an improvement even than they seemed to have gotten. But maybe it's just my amps and speakers are able to realize even more of the gains from an upgraded wire after the regen than others, I don't know. The dynamics, power, and speed, is lightning fast using this carbon after the Regen.  I can't emphasize enough how fast these nuforce amps are too. They are switching amps that take control of speakers with authority like I've never seen in any other amp I've ever owned.  And on top of that I have no crossovers in my speakers since they are full range drivers, which gives a ridiculous cohesion and realism to music. I really think all that seems to allow me to see every bit of improvement in using a good wire like the carbon after the regen, maybe perhaps even more than others got. Either way in the end all that matters is the improvements in my own system, and it was a vastly better improvement. It should be nice when my other carbon wire gets here tomorrow to put in before the Regen.


----------



## rb2013

rb2013 said:


> Good feedback - have you tried it after the Regen?


 

 Well finally received the iPurifier2 and the DC iPurifier.  Very nice.  I have to say I really like what the iPurifier2 does between the Regen and PUC 2 Lite DDC(I know this is sacrilege)  I'm using a the data only leg of a Lightspeed 2G split USB cable from the PC - with a Jitterbug at the PC end (modded to a VBUS +5VDC blocker).
  
 The iPurifier2 needs a power feed as it reclocks the USB data stream - now getting it from the ultra low noise regulated Regen/LPS.  This works great as using the iPur2 in front of the Regen is a no go for me as the 2G data leg only/JB VBUS blocker have no power from the PC.
  
 The iPur2 added greater clarity to an already amazing sound - a bit more natural ease to the music.  Blacker background - with greater detail and transparency.  Really sounding great.
  
 Added the DC iPurifier between the TeraDak DC30W LPS (set for 7VDC) and the Regen power feed - another nice improvement.  The TeraDak is using the excellent Cerious Tech Graphene Extreme power cord - connected to an Art Audio PB4x4 Pro dedicated AC common and differential mode line filter and isolator - this is plugged into an Audience aR1p power conditioner at the wall socket (Teslaplex).
  
 Each step in AC line filtering and USB filtering has added great clarity, focus and detail - this recreating a larger, deeper more realistic sound stage.  All the while added to the natural tonal richness and smoothness.  Just a wonder ease to the music - the best I have heard yet!


----------



## slex

rb2013 said:


> Each step in AC line filtering and USB filtering has added great clarity, focus and detail - this recreating a larger, deeper more realistic sound stage.  All the while added to the natural tonal richness and smoothness.  Just a wonder ease to the music - the best I have heard yet!




I second that- now waiting for the last missing link- true audio USB high speed isolator.


----------



## rb2013

slex said:


> I second that- now waiting for the last missing link- true audio USB high speed isolator.


 
 Check this out - I have on it's way to me as we speak:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived
  
 Singxer USB bridge based on the latest generation of XMOS 200 processors - using the XU208 1000MIPS chip.
  
 But in addition to that uses a unique CPLD Xilinx isolation scheme:
  


> 1. Full isolation technology, 150Mbps full-chip isolation, interference can be completely isolated from the PC;


----------



## slex

Good to hear, is that galvanic isolation?


----------



## foreverzer0

rb2013 said:


> Well finally received the iPurifier2 and the DC iPurifier.  Very nice.  I have to say I really like what the iPurifier2 does between the Regen and PUC 2 Lite DDC(I know this is sacrilege)  I'm using a the data only leg of a Lightspeed 2G split USB cable from the PC - with a Jitterbug at the PC end (modded to a VBUS +5VDC blocker).
> 
> The iPurifier2 needs a power feed as it reclocks the USB data stream - now getting it from the ultra low noise regulated Regen/LPS.  This works great as using the iPur2 in front of the Regen is a no go for me as the 2G data leg only/JB VBUS blocker have no power from the PC.
> 
> ...


 
 How does this setup all look?


----------



## rb2013

slex said:


> Good to hear, is that galvanic isolation?


 
 Yes it appears so - using Complex Programmable Logic Devices - this is a quote from their website:
  


> 1, full isolation technology (ground isolation), the use of 150Mbps full-chip isolation, interference can be completely isolated from the PC;


----------



## rb2013

foreverzer0 said:


> How does this setup all look?


 
 For the USB data stream:
 PC>JB (Modded to a VBUS Blocker)>LH Labs 2G split USB cable (data leg only)>Regen>Regen hard adapter>iPurifer2>DDC
  
 Power feed to the Regen's external power port:
 Wall Socket (Teslaplex)>Audience aR1p (AC line conditioner/rebalancer)>Art Audio PB4X4 Pro(common and differential mode AC line filtering and isolation)>Cerious Tech Graphene power cable>TeraDak DC-30W R-Core LPS>DC iPurifier>Regen power input (2.5mm cable).
  
 Two things I would like to try:
 1)Curious Regen 6" USB cable in place of the Regen hard adapter
 2)W4S Recovery in place of the Regen - but this may not work as I understand the Recovery requires a USB power handshake - even when powered by it's own 9VDC ext power port.  Right now between the JB modded +5VDC VBUS blocer and data only leg of the 2G cable - absolutely no USB power.  I could connect the power leg of the 2G to an external power source for the handshake - but that kind defeats the 'purity' of the clean USB powerless cable (possible power interference at the USB head connector).
  
 Note absolutely no need for the Isotona - since the ground is severed as well at the JB (pins 1 and 4 cut).  Additionally the iPurifier2 isolates the ground - but not galvanically​.  The Isotona needs to be USB powered. - so again defeats the purpose of the 'pure' power free, data only, feed from the USB.


----------



## slex

"1. Full isolation technology, 150Mbps full-chip isolation, interference can be completely isolated from the PC;"

Shouldn't it be 480mbps for USB 2 high speed?


----------



## Superdad

Originally Posted by *slex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 Good to hear, is that galvanic isolation?
  
 Quote:


rb2013 said:


> Yes it appears so - using Complex Programmable Logic Devices - this is a quote from their website:
> 1, full isolation technology (ground isolation), the use of 150Mbps full-chip isolation, interference can be completely isolated from the PC;


 
  
 Sorry, while I know that you are excited about that new USB>S/PDIF converter (and it may end up being a very nice sounding converter), the isolators they use are not providing galvanic isolation between the computer and USB input.  They are the same jitter-adding TI isolators placed AFTER the XMOS USB input PHY/processor--just like everyone else.
  
 And the benefits of the xCORE-200 processors are none to do with audio performance (the processing speed of the prior generation was more that enough)--it is that they have managed to get the volume pricing down to about half the cost of the XS1-U8A series.  $6.50 now buys a processor that used to be $13.  That is a good thing, but not something that is altering SQ.


----------



## dmbr

rb2013 said:


> Well finally received the iPurifier2 and the DC iPurifier.  Very nice.  I have to say I really like what the iPurifier2 does between the Regen and PUC 2 Lite DDC(I know this is sacrilege)  I'm using a the data only leg of a Lightspeed 2G split USB cable from the PC - with a Jitterbug at the PC end (modded to a VBUS +5VDC blocker).
> 
> The iPurifier2 needs a power feed as it reclocks the USB data stream - now getting it from the ultra low noise regulated Regen/LPS.  This works great as using the iPur2 in front of the Regen is a no go for me as the 2G data leg only/JB VBUS blocker have no power from the PC.
> 
> ...


 Neat to see the iPurifier 2 stacking well with the Regen in someone else's setup, too! Have you tried using an iPower to power the Rehen? According to iFi it's quieter than the iPurifier DC--I know it outperformed my LPS (no iP DC). 

I also found that putting an iUSB + iFi Gemini dual USB cable before the iP2 improved the sound a bit...not enough to merit the cost, but if you've got money to burn...


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> Sorry, while I know that you are excited about that new USB>S/PDIF converter (and it may end up being a very nice sounding converter), the isolators they use are not providing galvanic isolation between the computer and USB input.  They are the same jitter-adding TI isolators placed AFTER the XMOS USB input PHY/processor--just like everyone else.
> 
> And the benefits of the xCORE-200 processors are none to do with audio performance (the processing speed of the prior generation was more that enough)--it is that they have managed to get the volume pricing down to about half the cost of the XS1-U8A series.  $6.50 now buys a processor that used to be $13.  That is a good thing, but not something that is altering SQ.


 

 Well they just arrived and blow away any of the 12 or so DDC's I've had yet - simply stunning cold out of the box.  The F-1 (Crystek CCHD-575 audio clocks) is slightly better then the X-1 (NDK SD clocks) so far - and both need burnin.  I'm running 192K 24 bit files from 2L without a hiccup. - so the F-1's CPLD 'USB isolation' seems to have plenty of through put.  The sound has even greater dynamics and a natural ease - surpassing the excellent PUC2 Lite.
  
 Now to sell my PUC2 Lite - I want to try the Wyred for Sound Recovery - I'm reading that many prefer it to the Regen.  I do like the Regen - but the comments over on CA have been almost universal that it's better then the Regen.  It is attractive in that is takes an external power source like the Regen, then after low noise regulators passes on 5VDC power.
  
 The results I'm hearing so far exceed my wildest expectations - rivaling my $30K analog set-up in tonality and demension (VPI SuperScout Master Signature/Dyan XV1S/Nordost Val cables/Bent Setup Transformers/CJ Phono Pre).
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/wyred-4-sounds-recovery-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-reclocker-findings-audio-performance-curated-thread-27140/


----------



## Luckbad

I grabbed two absurd USB converters:
  

Mutec MC-1.2
Mutec MC-3+ Smart Clock USB
  
 The MC-1.2 benefits from the Regen, the MC-3+ does not.
  
 Time to sell one of my Regens again.
  
 I'm pretty sure I've bought/sold about 5 of these so far. You'd think I'd just keep two on hand just in case.


----------



## rb2013

luckbad said:


> I grabbed two absurd USB converters:
> 
> 
> Mutec MC-1.2
> ...


 

 LOL!  I feel your pain.  That Mutec MC-3+ looks sweet!  Raising money for an 'atomic clock'?


----------



## Luckbad

rb2013 said:


> LOL!  I feel your pain.  That Mutec MC-3+ looks sweet!  Raising money for an 'atomic clock'?


 
  
 Raising money for the Mutecs I already bought. 
  
 I don't think I'll ever get a Rubidium clock; there are good clocks on the Mutec already. To improve, I'd have to spend thousands.


----------



## rb2013

luckbad said:


> Raising money for the Mutecs I already bought.
> 
> I don't think I'll ever get a Rubidium clock; there are good clocks on the Mutec already. To improve, I'd have to spend thousands.


 

 How do you like it?  Have you started a review thread


----------



## Luckbad

rb2013 said:


> How do you like it?  Have you started a review thread


 
  
 I will. It's awesome!


----------



## rb2013

luckbad said:


> I will. It's awesome!


 
 Yeah some really neat features - like the galvanic isolation built in.
  


> Galvanic isolation up to 2500 VRMS in accordance with UL1577, respectively 4242 VPK in accordance with DIN EN 60747-5-2 (VDE 0884 part 2)


 
 http://mutec-net.com/product_mc-3-plus-usb.php


----------



## doctorjazz

Went to the site in the link, it doesn't say how much the mc-3 costs...


----------



## rb2013

doctorjazz said:


> Went to the site in the link, it doesn't say how much the mc-3 costs...


 

 Just do a Google search under the 'Shopping' tab...wife taught me that...


----------



## Cornan

luckbad said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > How do you like it?  Have you started a review thread
> ...




I have read a lot of great reviews about the Mutec Mc-3+USB. Just a lot of interesting devices in the pipe-line right now. Sonore microRendu and the coming co-operation with Jplay & Fidelizer's Windows 10 streamer. Mutec MC-3+USB is supported ny microRendu but will stay in the boat until I know what comes out of the Jplay/Fildelizer hardware.


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> I have read a lot of great reviews about the Mutec Mc-3+USB. Just a lot of interesting devices in the pipe-line right now. Sonore microRendu and the coming co-operation with Jplay & Fidelizer's Windows 10 streamer. Mutec MC-3+USB is supported ny microRendu but will stay in the boat until I know what comes out of the Jplay/Fildelizer hardware.


 

 And then there is MQA...when will it ever end...


----------



## rb2013

I see the Sonore microRendu offers the iFi iPower supply - can't be too bad...
  
 I have my W4S Recovery on the way - will compare with the Regen.  Will also test to see if there are the synergies with the Regen using the iPurifer2 and DC iPurifier.
  
 I know I'm not supposed to do this - but it sounds great...better then the Regen direct to DDC.

 BTW that's the trick new XMOS XU208 (1000 MIPS) based F-1 DDC - Crystek CCHD-575 clocks, FPGA USB isolation, two stage ultra low noise LDO regulation...sounds amazing.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > I have read a lot of great reviews about the Mutec Mc-3+USB. Just a lot of interesting devices in the pipe-line right now. Sonore microRendu and the coming co-operation with Jplay
> ...


MQA is not forgotten!  Just when you feel that you have reached Nirvana..you keep on falling!  I guess that is the name of the game...but if I want to end it I want to end it happy. I will have to guess:Supra Cat8>MicroRendu>Mutec MC-3+USB>UpTone Audio JS-2>AMR777>Lehmann Black cube Linear>Stax SR-009 would be the ultimate headphone setup?  Of course with Entreq RCA, Silver Minimus, Silver Eartha cables and Entreq power cables and conditioners!


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> MQA is not forgotten!  Just when you feel that you have reached Nirvana..you keep on falling!  I guess that is the name of the game...but if I want to end it I want to end it happy. I will have to guess:Supra Cat8>MicroRendu>Mutec MC-3+USB>UpTone Audio JS-2>AMR777>Lehmann Black cube Linear>Stax SR-009 would be the ultimate headphone setup?  Of course with Entreq RCA, Silver Minimus, Silver Eartha cables and Entreq power cables and conditioners!


 

 Heaven on earth!


----------



## Shawnb

I've been having connection issues with the Regen and the Geek Pulse. Play a song in Jriver and as soon as i stopped that all audio to the Pulse was dead, would take a reboot of my PC and multiple unplugging and plugging back in to get it to work again, as soon as i emlinated the Regen everything works perfectly, can switch programs with ease, no issues so far.
  
 What could be the issue?


----------



## motberg

luckbad said:


> I grabbed two absurd USB converters:
> 
> 
> Mutec MC-1.2
> ...


 

 I have an extra Regen also, but maybe the new Uptone devices will offer some improvements over the original ...... and then there is always the J Kenny 3.3V power mod to consider, I have no DIY skills, but may purchase a soldering station just to give that a try.....


----------



## Superdad

shawnb said:


> I've been having connection issues with the Regen and the Geek Pulse. Play a song in Jriver and as soon as i stopped that all audio to the Pulse was dead, would take a reboot of my PC and multiple unplugging and plugging back in to get it to work again, as soon as i emlinated the Regen everything works perfectly, can switch programs with ease, no issues so far.
> 
> What could be the issue?


 

 I have a Geek Pulse as one of my DACs.  Had the same problem--and many more--until I sent it back and had the firmware updated (actually they replaced the whole board and the level control encoder knob as the unit had a bunch of issues).  The REGEN functions as a 100%-compliant, powered USB2.0 hub.
  
 Issues with dropped connection after playback can be:
 a) Windows issues (Win 7 is notoriously bad with USB hubs);
 b) Windows/XMOS/DAC driver issue;
 c) DAC firmware issue (USB devices are supposed to go to sleep with no signal present, but they are supposed to come out of suspend mode quickly);
 d) JRiver issue, though while JRiver can sometimes be blamed--mostly when first trying to get things going with a REGEN--I don't think it is at fault in your case.
  
 My suggestion is to see if the problem presents itself with a different DAC.  If not, then start looking at the driver and firmware.
  
 Hope this helps a little.  Feel free to telephone us during the week for further assistance.
  
 Thanks,
 --Alex C.


----------



## Shawnb

superdad said:


> I have a Geek Pulse as one of my DACs.  Had the same problem--and many more--until I sent it back and had the firmware updated (actually they replaced the whole board and the level control encoder knob as the unit had a bunch of issues).  The REGEN functions as a 100%-compliant, powered USB2.0 hub.
> 
> Issues with dropped connection after playback can be:
> a) Windows issues (Win 7 is notoriously bad with USB hubs);
> ...


 
  
  
 Hey Alex
  
 Thanks. Yeah I blame the Pulse first, that or the Lightspeed USB cables. I had a few troubles even without the Regen so I figure it wasn't that.
 Windows 10 can be a pain. I got it working for now but yeah I'll try out a few different things.
 Thanks again for the reply


----------



## mscott58

Hey all - Have been off this thread for a while but have a question for you. 
  
 I'm testing the new Soekris DAC1101 R2R DAC and was trying to use the Regen with it but am having issues. 
  
 The DAC1101 is USB powered and works fine when plugged directly into my PC but when I put the Regen between the USB cable (Lightspeed 2G) and the DAC the unit shows it's getting power, but the computer doesn't see the DAC. I've tried plugging things in different orders and such and still no joy. 
  
 Any helpful hints or tricks you can think of? 
  
 Thanks in advance and cheers


----------



## Cornan

mscott58 said:


> Hey all - Have been off this thread for a while but have a question for you.
> 
> I'm testing the new Soekris DAC1101 R2R DAC and was trying to use the Regen with it but am having issues.
> 
> ...


 
 Lightspeed 2G is a Y-shaped USB cable with power and data legs separated.
  

  
  
 You cannot use the Lightspeed 2G between the Regen and DAC without adding power leg to a external power supply (battery supply or LPS) since your DAC needs both data & power to work. Lightspeed 2G is best used between the PC and Regen without the power leg connected. Regen will then supply the power needed to your DAC.


----------



## rb2013

Well have compared the W4S Recovery and the Regen in my new sota USB system.  So far with the new XMOS 1000MIPS XU208 based DDC the Singxer F-1 - it's been a slight edge to the Recovery.  Although this DDC responses well to the Regen as well.
  
 As of now I do prefer the Recovery a bit more - just more musical with a greater ease to the music.  The Recovery like the Regen needs no USB power - even for a handshake.  I'm using just the data leg of the 2g split USB cable - the power leg unconnected.  Also a jitterbug modded to a VBUS blocker and with the ground pin cut as well.
  
 The USB power fed to the F-1 DDC from the Recovery and the Regen.
  
 BTW Had good success running an iFi iPurifier2 between the Regen and the Recovery and the DDC.  Made even better with the Curious USB 200mm Regen link.
  
 Pretty spectaular sound right now.
  
 Here is my current best data chain:
PC WIN10 iCore7>PPAV2 (iPower)>Jitterbug (modded to Vbus and ground blocker)>LH Labs 2G split USB cable(data only leg)>Recovery (fed by Teradak DC-30W/DC iPur)>Curious 200mm USB link>iPurifier2>F-1
 

  
 If you what to follow this new sota class of USB bridges based on the XMOS XU208 check out my thread.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived/210


----------



## mscott58

cornan said:


> Lightspeed 2G is a Y-shaped USB cable with power and data legs separated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry, am actually using the 1G. Have the 2G and even 10G, but for this test I was using the single plug USB cable. And the Regen is getting power from the DC plug. Am going to try to reboot and also reinstall the drivers to see if that helps. Cheers 
  
 EDIT - Tried rebooting and reinstalling the drivers to the DAC1101 (as was suggested in the Uptone REGEN manual) and still no luck in getting the computer to "see" the DAC when going through the REGEN. Help still needed please!


----------



## Cornan

Mscott58 You will need to specify your USB cables both before AND after the Regen. Otherwise it is very difficult to help you.


----------



## mscott58

cornan said:


> @Mscott58 You will need to specify your USB cables both before AND after the Regen. Otherwise it is very difficult to help you.


 
 Good point. I've got the LHLabs Lightspeed 1G USB cable running from my PC to the Regen, then the solid USB A/B connector that came with the Regen between it and the DAC1101. I'm powering the DC input of the Regen via 5V USB output of my LPS4. Hope that helps


----------



## Cornan

rb2013 said:


> Well have compared the W4S Recovery and the Regen in my new sota USB system.  So far with the new XMOS 1000MIPS XU208 based DDC the Singxer F-1 - it's been a slight edge to the Recovery.  Although this DDC responses well to the Regen as well.
> 
> As of now I do prefer the Recovery a bit more - just more musical with a greater ease to the music.  The Recovery like the Regen needs no USB power - even for a handshake.  I'm using just the data leg of the 2g split USB cable - the power leg unconnected.  Also a jitterbug modded to a VBUS blocker and with the ground pin cut as well.
> 
> ...




Thanks for sharing rb2013! However, I am a bit puzzled. According to Sboosters website the Recovery is not compatible with the Vbus2 Isolator https://www.sbooster.com/sbooster-tweaks/sbooster-vbus-isolator which in my mind means that it do needs the USB power. I have promised myself not to touch anything in the USB chain that needs USB power including Recovery an Intona...but now you say that it does'nt need it? Are you 100% sure of this?


----------



## Cornan

mscott58 said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > [@=/u/386301/Mscott58]@Mscott58[/@] You will need to specify your USB cables both before AND after the Regen. Otherwise it is very difficult to help you.
> ...




Regen requires 6-9v DC..not 5v...if the DAC needs the USB power. I would assume that this is your problem. Connect the Regen with the supplied SPMS to see if it solves your problem.


----------



## mscott58

cornan said:


> Regen requires 6-9v DC..not 5v...if the DAC needs the USB power. I would assume that this is your problem. Connect the Regen with the supplied SPMS to see if it solves your problem.


 
 I've talked to Uptone about using 5V and they say it should work, and in fact it did work fine using the 5V power with my Geek Pulse in the same configuration, it just doesn't see the Soekris. Thanks


----------



## Cornan

mscott58 said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Regen requires 6-9v DC..not 5v...if the DAC needs the USB power. I would assume that this is your problem. Connect the Regen with the supplied SPMS to see if it solves your problem.
> ...



5v DC is really a minimum value. It is really what the USB bus requires without powering a DAC. If your DAC is power hungry it simply will not work. Just try with the supplied wall wart to evaluate if this is the problem or not. It will be a quick test. Should work and will work is two different things.


----------



## Cornan

@rb2013
First of all I must say that I admire your work! I work the same way as you in a way. I do not take no for an answer. Still, I have some questions regarding your setup:

Here is my current best data chain:
PC WIN10 iCore7>PPAV2 (iPower)>Jitterbug (modded to Vbus and ground blocker)>LH Labs 2G split USB cable(data only leg)>Recovery (fed by Teradak DC-30W/DC iPur)>Curious 200mm USB link>iPurifier2>F-1

1. Why would the ground blocker be useful in the VBus Isolator? In my mind it will defeat the purpose and end up with more noise.

2. Why are you using a (iPower) BEFORE the VBus Isolator when the power is blocked?


----------



## mscott58

cornan said:


> 5v DC is really a minimum value. It is really what the USB bus requires without powering a DAC. If your DAC is power hungry it simply will not work. Just try with the supplied wall wart to evaluate if this is the problem or not. It will be a quick test. Should work and will work is two different things.


 
 Great point. Now I just have to find my walwart!


----------



## Cornan

mscott58 said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > 5v DC is really a minimum value. It is really what the USB bus requires without powering a DAC. If your DAC is power hungry it simply will not work. Just try with the supplied wall wart to evaluate if this is the problem or not. It will be a quick test. Should work and will work is two different things.
> ...



Good luck!


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> @rb2013
> First of all I must say that I admire your work! I work the same way as you in a way. I do not take no for an answer. Still, I have some questions regarding your setup:
> 
> Here is my current best data chain:
> ...


 

 Good questions -
  
  
 1) I did this strictly by listening to what sounds best.  I first tried just blocking the +5VDC line by clipping the pin on outgoing USB socket (the JB needs USB power), then tried with clipping the ground too.  I was amazed my many DDC's would work without a ground - but thinking about it - isn't the data only leg of the 2G, only the two inside data pins of the 4 pin USB socket?  But it sounded better!  Just a hint of edge removed - without effecting the detail.  You can experiment with this by just taping the leads.  I'm paranoid about doing this on an expensive USB cable so went the JB route - which can be easily inserted or removed.

  

  
  
 2) the iPower 5VDC is probably not needed on the PPA V2 card - as it's purpose is to feed the USB power up a regular USB cable.  I can hear a slight difference with it in any case - I'm thinking the PPA V2 card itself has a TXCO clock and the cleaner power is helping there.


----------



## Cornan

Thanks rb2013! 
I know for sure that for example my Entreq Eartha USB cable that I use to connect to my Minimus (external ground) do not use pin no 4 to function properly. It uses the USB A barrel to improve the ground. This make me assume that the USB ground is travelling through the drain. In my case using no drain on my USB cables simply will not work...only make things worse. In your case with Lightspeed 2G which uses drain it could potensially improve things or not depending on ground related setup. 

Concerning your PPA v2 card I am sure you are correct with the TXCO clock. It will definately improve things on the data transmission.


----------



## Mediahound

How many watts does the Regen use when it's on and is it safe to cut the power to it when not in use or is it really better to leave it on all the time?


----------



## Cornan

mediahound said:


> How many watts does the Regen use when it's on and is it safe to cut the power to it when not in use or is it really better to leave it on all the time?


 
 Here is a snip from Uptone Audio´s Q&A:
  
 Quote from http://uptoneaudio.com/pages/usb-regen-questions-and-answers: 





> Our USB hub chip and clock together draw about 50mA at 3.3V, so it would be almost impossible to overheat that second regulator. Even 20V dropped to 3.3V will, at 50mA be only about 0.84 watts.


 
 The Regen is constructed to be on all the time. With that said it is possible to cut the power....but if you are using a USB powered DAC I would be a bit careful if you use SMPS to power the Regen due to ESD. Here is why: https://www.sbooster.com/white-paper-esd 
 Personally I am using battery power for the Regen and USB cables (before and after Regen) without 5v leads and have no problem switching off the power when charging my battery.


----------



## Mediahound

cornan said:


> Here is a snip from Uptone Audio´s Q&A:
> 
> The Regen is constructed to be on all the time. With that said it is possible to cut the power....but if you are using a USB powered DAC I would be a bit careful if you use SMPS to power the Regen due to ESD. Here is why: https://www.sbooster.com/white-paper-esd
> Personally I am using battery power for the Regen and USB cables (before and after Regen) without 5v leads and have no problem switching off the power when charging my battery.


 

 So it draws less than 1 watt? If that's the case, that's quite low so seems like just leaving it powered all the time is no big deal. But seems like the power supply itself would draw more than that.


----------



## Cornan

mediahound said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a snip from Uptone Audio´s Q&A:
> ...


 
 USB Regen will draw less than 1 watt if your DAC does´nt need the 5v while playing music. I can for example run the USB Regen a whole day with my Kingrex uPower without having to recharge it. If you DAC needs the 5v it will draw more of course (3,5 watt?)....but that is only while playing music. No music=less than 1 watt. As far as I know PSU does´nt draw more than the connected device is pulling.


----------



## Mediahound

cornan said:


> USB Regen will draw less than 1 watt if your DAC does´nt need the 5v while playing music. I can for example run the USB Regen a whole day with my Kingrex uPower without having to recharge it. If you DAC needs the 5v it will draw more of course (3,5 watt?)....but that is only while playing music. No music=less than 1 watt. As far as I know PSU does´nt draw more than the connected device is pulling.




I'll test it with my kill a watt when I receive it. The power supply may draw something by itself.


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> Thanks rb2013!
> I know for sure that for example my Entreq Eartha USB cable that I use to connect to my Minimus (external ground) do not use pin no 4 to function properly. It uses the USB A barrel to improve the ground. This make me assume that the USB ground is travelling through the drain. In my case using no drain on my USB cables simply will not work...only make things worse. In your case with Lightspeed 2G which uses drain it could potensially improve things or not depending on ground related setup.
> 
> Concerning your PPA v2 card I am sure you are correct with the TXCO clock. It will definately improve things on the data transmission.


 

 From what I understand cutting the ground pin on the JB isolates the Regen from the PC's ground plane, which is replaced by the earth ground of the PS - in my case the TeraDak DC-30W and DC iPurifier.  The TeraDak is fed AC by a very well filtered line - using an isolated common and differential mode AC line filter (Art Audio PB4X4 PRO)which is plugged into a Audience aR1p AC line filter and rebalancer.  So the earth ground is isolated from the other electric components, especailly the very dirty PC, even the DAC (on it's own PB4X4 Pro), the AC line grunge heavily filtered and supressed.
  
 From the Art Audio PB4X4 Pro:


> All PRO SERIES models have an additional internal discrete module called APF™ (Advanced Power Filtering) which filters out digital and dimmer hash as well as any high frequency noise that is above the audio range. Some off-the-shelf add-on modules saturate and lose their filtering effectiveness as the load increases, but by using a high power discrete design we were able to create a filter that stays effective over the full operating range.
> By using both Common Mode and Differential Mode topologies in series for the filter design we are able to block virtually all of the unwanted noise that is between the AC line and ground, and also the two sides of the AC line. This has the additional benefit of reducing ground loop problems in your system. High frequency noise currents in particular are highly attenuated in both directions so that any line noise that could be generated by one of your components is not allowed to get back into your main A.C. wiring so if you use a number of PRO SERIES Power Conditioners in your setup, you can distribute and isolate the noisy components from the sensitive components in your system. Additionally, any signals above 10kHz are filtered from the line with over 40dB of attenuation above 100kHz and beyond.


 
 From the Audience aR1p:


> It is often assumed that the voltage we get from our ac wall outlet is pure. Nothing could be further from the truth. All kinds of electronic noise in the form of radio frequencies and electromagnetic radiation is picked up on the line and fed directly to your components thereby compromising their performance. Even the various components within an audio system can generate harmful noise and contaminate the line. Listeners are often unaware of the veiled quality that this noise imparts until it has been removed. Dealing with these problems in an effective yet non-performance compromising fashion is the hallmark of Audience Adept Response power conditioners.
> 
> All Audience conditioning products are passive devices which avoid the brick wall or brute force style that are employed in many conditioners. You will not find heavy transformers, redundant power supplies, integrated circuits or performance-degrading protection devices inside of our products. Instead, you will find an elegant layout that employs the most effective filtering, isolation and protection devices available today. These design parameters insure that your components live up to their design objectives so that you can obtain the highest level of performance from your audio/video system while simultaneously protecting them from surge and overload events.


----------



## Superdad

rb2013 said:


> From what I understand cutting the ground pin on the JB isolates the Regen from the PC's ground plane...


 
  
 Actually it does not.  Please remember that all USB cables connect their shell-sheilds, and that once you plug a USB cable into a jack the device then connects that shield line to its ground pin.  In a way I'd rather defeat the shield/shell than cut the pin 4 ground--but that is not nearly as easy.  In either case, you are not galvanically isolating the PC from the USB input.


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> Actually it does not.  Please remember that all USB cables connect their shell-sheilds, and that once you plug a USB cable into a jack the device then connects that shield line to its ground pin.  In a way I'd rather defeat the shield/shell than cut the pin 4 ground--but that is not nearly as easy.  In either case, you are not galvanically isolating the PC from the USB input.


 

 I see.  Well it does sound better - even with a data only USB cable.  So if you are using a PCI/USB card like the Paul Pang V2 or V3 - are you not circumventing the USB ground plane?


----------



## Cornan

@rb2013 as long as you are using shielded USB cables the ground path is in unbroken. If there is a connection somewere the ground will find it and use it. Using 2-wire unshielded wires (no 5v+GND) is possible if you have dedicated mains and a proper star ground. Actually, this is is possibly one of the best thing you could do in USB transmission SQ wise...but really complicated to achieve without great knowledge in grounding/electricity and/or proffesional help...especially with a lot of things in the USB line to consider. If done right the ground path is sent through the star ground and not through the USB cable with lowest possible noise floor as a result.


----------



## rb2013

cornan said:


> @rb2013 as long as you are using shielded USB cables the ground path is in unbroken. If there is a connection somewere the ground will find it and use it. Using 2-wire unshielded wires (no 5v+GND) is possible if you have dedicated mains and a proper star ground. Actually, this is is possibly one of the best thing you could do in USB transmission SQ wise...but really complicated to achieve without great knowledge in grounding/electricity and/or proffesional help...especially with a lot of things in the USB line to consider. If done right the ground path is sent through the star ground and not through the USB cable with lowest possible noise floor as a result.


 

 Thanks Cornan!  I'm using a LH labs 2G split USB cable -and the data only leg.  The power leg unconnected - so no 5v+ or GND.  I believe this would qualify as 'unshielded' no?  But exciting news from Uptone - a little glimpse at their new uber-Regen.  I know this has been discussed in general terms before - but this is the first time I have seen @Superdad discuss details.  I have held off buying a intona - just for the reasons he mentions.  A one box solution sounds ideal - especaily with better clocks for reclocking
  
 I hope he does not mind me reposting here - this was from a different thread yesterday:
  
 20 hours, 22 minutes ago 

 [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/9/9a/100x100px-LS-9acb55ce_TinySystem.jpeg[/img] 
 
Superdad
Member of the Trade: UpTone Audio





 
offline
 
51 Posts. Joined 4/2015
 



prot said:


> The hard part is the galvanic iso. Chips who can do that at full usb2.0 speed are rare, new and expensive. Afaik Intona has the only commercial chip right now .. few others are rumored to come.


 
  
 No, the Intona is not based on a commercial chip.  Rather what they have done is write their own USB MAC processing core for an FPGA, then run it in two FPGAs separated by standard Silicon Labs digital isolators.  Unfortunately, they use one very average clock for the entire device--and they have it located on the "dirty" upstream side.  There is jitter added by both FPGAs and 350ps of jitter added by the isolators.  They reclock it all in the second FPGA, but there is broad debate about if that is the best place to reclock.  In addition, none of the voltage regulators they use in the device would be considered particularly low noise (at 55uVrms and 100uVrms).
  
 The Intona does sound good with a REGEN after it though.  That's how I use it.  At least for another couple of months, when we will then release our uber-REGEN with, among a bunch of other enhancements, full galvanic isolation.


----------



## Cornan

You are welcome rb2013! 
I am 100% sure Lightspeed 2G uses shielding on the data leg. Proper unshielded wires uses only pure cotton or silk sleeving around the twisted data wires. No shielding and no dielectric materials. Ones you have heard what unshielded wires can do to SQ it is impossible to go back. Shielding and dielectric on data wires kills the spirit of the music and makes it sound dull in comparison. Just make sure to keep them separated from power cables and electric devices.Good power, proper grounding and unshielded data wires is the way to go IMO.

Yes, I have seen that a new updated USB Regen is coming. Very interesting indeed and there are plenty more interesting devices coming as well in the near future. Sonore microRendu, Fidelizer's streamer, UpTone Audio's mystery PSU, Audiophile Optimizer for windows10, MQA for Tidal, Jcat's secret mystery device to mension a few. Happy but difficult times for an audiophile. Joy!


----------



## Mediahound

cornan said:


> USB Regen will draw less than 1 watt if your DAC does´nt need the 5v while playing music. I can for example run the USB Regen a whole day with my Kingrex uPower without having to recharge it. If you DAC needs the 5v it will draw more of course (3,5 watt?)....but that is only while playing music. No music=less than 1 watt. As far as I know PSU does´nt draw more than the connected device is pulling.


 
  


mediahound said:


> I'll test it with my kill a watt when I receive it. The power supply may draw something by itself.


 
  
 Confirmed & tested:
  
 The power supply draws under 1watt when the Regen is not plugged into it.
  
 With the Regen plugged in and the DAC on, the draw is 1.4 watts. 
  
 Certainly low enough for me to leave it powered all the time.


----------



## audiojun

Just received my Regen today, it's like I upgraded my DAC.


----------



## Audio Addict

Not to high jack the thread but did anyone else get the PS AUDIO link to a YouTube video basically reselling a device they will name LANRover? They mentioned comparing it to the US Regen, which they liked but felt this discovery needed to be sold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUl9fJNyfbo


----------



## rb2013

audio addict said:


> Not to high jack the thread but did anyone else get the PS AUDIO link to a YouTube video basically reselling a device they will name LANRover? They mentioned comparing it to the US Regen, which they liked but felt this discovery needed to be sold.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUl9fJNyfbo


 

 Thanks for that - interesting stuff


----------



## Cornan

audio addict said:


> Not to high jack the thread but did anyone else get the PS AUDIO link to a YouTube video basically reselling a device they will name LANRover? They mentioned comparing it to the US Regen, which they liked but felt this discovery needed to be sold.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUl9fJNyfbo




I read a PS Audio teaser about this thing several months ago. Interesting thing indeed!


----------



## rb2013

audio addict said:


> Not to high jack the thread but did anyone else get the PS AUDIO link to a YouTube video basically reselling a device they will name LANRover? They mentioned comparing it to the US Regen, which they liked but felt this discovery needed to be sold.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUl9fJNyfbo


 
 WATCH STARTING AT Min 4!!  At Min 5 "he says - knocked the Regen's socks off!"  That is an amazing statement!
  
  
 Well I just bought this unit on Amazon a 1GB Ethernet USB extender - and a medical grade ethernet galvanic isolator.
  
 Should do just about the same thing  - galvanic isolation from the PC with the ability to extend the USB very long distances.  We'll see how that sounds.  $80 on Amazon.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Extender-Repeater-Printers-Keyboard/dp/B00B0CZQZQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461679018&sr=8-1&keywords=USB+2.0+to+UPT+Cats5+Cat5e..."


 Got lucky and picked this galvanic isolator on EBay for $50 (they sell for $160 new)

  


> As Wikipedia reports, "_network isolators are installed as part of a copper Ethernet system as galvanic_
> _isolators. Network data continues to be transmitted across an electrically non-conducting barrier_
> _through the applied principle of electromagnetic induction whereby high-frequency AC voltages_
> _conveying data are induced across an isolating gap. The network isolator is therefore a passive device_
> ...


----------



## Audio Addict

audio addict said:


> Not to high jack the thread but did anyone else get the PS AUDIO link to a YouTube video basically reselling a device they will name LANRover? They mentioned comparing it to the US Regen, which they liked but felt this discovery needed to be sold.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUl9fJNyfbo




It appears the video has been removed.


----------



## rb2013

audio addict said:


> It appears the video has been removed.


 

 That was fast - we have been discussing over on the XU208 DDC thread the technology and how to best implement it.
  
 Ordered one of these:
 http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-330-Feet-Ethernet-Extender-USB2G4LEXT2/dp/B00HFGQESY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461691077&sr=8-1&keywords=4+Port+USB+2.0+over+Gigabit+LAN+or+Direct+Cat5e+%2F+Cat6+Ethernet+Extender+System


----------



## Audio Addict

audio addict said:


> It appears the video has been removed.


 
  
 It is back up.
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQjJke5uM2g


----------



## rb2013

Edit


----------



## rb2013

Recieved the 'PS Audio' discovery ICRON/Startech 1 GB LAN USB extender yesterday.  One word - AWESOME!
  
 Two levels of isolation - one galvanic and the other from the USB to TCP/IP translation and reconversion.  Works great with the W4S Recovery will try with the Regen this weekend.
  
 A BIG THANK YOU to Paul McGowen on this one!  The PS Audio version should be even better.
 Cheers!


----------



## yuhengtiger

Hi guys, 
  
 Is there a good battery recommendation for powering the regen? For my setup (iMac-> curious USB -> Regen with stock power supply) there is a noise if I am using the power supply of Regen. 
  
 There are not many 6-8v battery out there are they?
  
 Thank you!


----------



## Cornan

yuhengtiger said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Is there a good battery recommendation for powering the regen? For my setup (iMac-> curious USB -> Regen with stock power supply) there is a noise if I am using the power supply of Regen.
> 
> ...




I am using KingRex uPower for my USB Regen Amber with great results. I am extremely happy with it!  With no power running through my USB cables before and after the USB Regen I can listen to music for at least 8 hours (my longest music session so far) before recharging. I know that KingRex uPower could be difficult to find in some countries though...but it is worth checking out.


----------



## Michael P

yuhengtiger said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Is there a good battery recommendation for powering the regen? For my setup (iMac-> curious USB -> Regen with stock power supply) there is a noise if I am using the power supply of Regen.
> 
> ...


 

 I have just been using  a regular 9V battery ( the sort you use in a smoke detector)   with the usual clip and a 2.1mm plug soldered on the end - have used it for about 4-5 hours so far and it's still reading 8.2V - based on this I will be getting a 9V rechargeable and charger
 Michael


----------



## yuhengtiger

michael p said:


> I have just been using  a regular 9V battery ( the sort you use in a smoke detector)   with the usual clip and a 2.1mm plug soldered on the end - have used it for about 4-5 hours so far and it's still reading 8.2V - based on this I will be getting a 9V rechargeable and charger
> Michael


 
  
 Ok. So the 9v battery works fine with regen without any issues? I thought the input range is from 6 to 8v? Thanks!


----------



## Michael P

It works fine as long as your DAC is self powered and not drawing any power through the Regen
  


 Or you could get one  of these
 https://www.adafruit.com/products/67


----------



## yuhengtiger

Thank you! The picture looks good! My dac (schiit ygg) is not self powered, I think it needs the power from regen and that's why I have noise issues now.


----------



## paulchiu

michael p said:


> I have just been using  a regular 9V battery ( the sort you use in a smoke detector)   with the usual clip and a 2.1mm plug soldered on the end - have used it for about 4-5 hours so far and it's still reading 8.2V - based on this I will be getting a 9V rechargeable and charger
> Michael


 
  
 How does the 9V battery sound compared with the wall wart included with Regen?
 Thanks


----------



## abartels

paulchiu said:


> michael p said:
> 
> 
> > I have just been using  a regular 9V battery ( the sort you use in a smoke detector)   with the usual clip and a 2.1mm plug soldered on the end - have used it for about 4-5 hours so far and it's still reading 8.2V - based on this I will be getting a 9V rechargeable and charger
> > Michael


 
  
 internal resistance of 9V block is too high, try configure some LiFEPO4, or LION 18650's, you need between 6 and 8 volts? lion 18650 (or LiFEPO4) is 3.7V fully loaded, 3.2V when almost empty.
 Two in series is 6.4V-7.4V Build two of them and put them in parallel, then you've got internal resistance of one cell. Or even more in parallel, resistance will drop and SQ will increase


----------



## paulchiu

abartels said:


> internal resistance of 9V block is too high, try configure some LiFEPO4, or LION 18650's, you need between 6 and 8 volts? lion 18650 (or LiFEPO4) is 3.7V fully loaded, 3.2V when almost empty.
> Two in series is 6.4V-7.4V Build two of them and put them in parallel, then you've got internal resistance of one cell. Or even more in parallel, resistance will drop and SQ will increase


 
  
 What is this SQ difference over the Regen wall wart with this battery strategy?


----------



## abartels

paulchiu said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > internal resistance of 9V block is too high, try configure some LiFEPO4, or LION 18650's, you need between 6 and 8 volts? lion 18650 (or LiFEPO4) is 3.7V fully loaded, 3.2V when almost empty.
> ...


 
  
 Sorry, I can't answer because I don't own a Regen, but the lower the internal resistance of a battery, the better the circuit performs, how this affect Regen I don't know.
  
 Wallwart has noise, that's for sure, battery will definitely sound better, at least when internal resistance is ok.


----------



## Cornan

paulchiu said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > internal resistance of 9V block is too high, try configure some LiFEPO4, or LION 18650's, you need between 6 and 8 volts? lion 18650 (or LiFEPO4) is 3.7V fully loaded, 3.2V when almost empty.
> ...



Sound wise in my own experiance the sound with a good BPS is more relaxed with blacker background while a good LPS will give you a more dynamic sound signature with a tad more detail (very small difference). What you choose is dependent on you sound preferences. 

I have noticed that there is some history to the choice as well: Coming from vinyl=BPS & coming from CD=LPS  (Not intirely true though...but some truth is hiding in those words)

For a SPMS Regens supplied is not bad at all. Very good actually. But as far as competing with a good BPS or LPS that cost just as much or more as the Regen..the answer is very obvious.


----------



## paulchiu

cornan said:


> Sound wise in my own experiance the sound with a good BPS is more relaxed with blacker background while a good LPS will give you a more dynamic sound signature with a tad more detail (very small difference). What you choose is dependent on you sound preferences.
> 
> I have noticed that there is some history to the choice as well: Coming from vinyl=BPS & coming from CD=LPS  (Not intirely true though...but some truth is hiding in those words)
> 
> For a SPMS Regens supplied is not bad at all. Very good actually. But as far as competing with a good BPS or LPS that cost just as much or more as the Regen..the answer is very obvious.


 
  
 Any BPS you suggest for the Regen?  Perhaps even a rechargeable BPS?


----------



## Cornan

paulchiu said:


> cornan said:
> 
> 
> > Sound wise in my own experiance the sound with a good BPS is more relaxed with blacker background while a good LPS will give you a more dynamic sound signature with a tad more detail (very small difference). What you choose is dependent on you sound preferences.
> ...



See my previous post above. I own Kingrex uPower and are very very happy with it. 7,5v DC output plus 5v USB linear output. Works great!


----------



## Michael P

I echo Cornan's thoughts on Battery SQ over the supplied PS
 And Abartels advice would be a better choice than just using a 9V block battery as I do
 But you can just try the 9V idea for approx $5 and then progress to Abartels idea , if you hear any improvement
 Michael


----------



## abartels

michael p said:


> I echo Cornan's thoughts on Battery SQ over the supplied PS
> And Abartels advice would be a better choice than just using a 9V block battery as I do
> But you can just try the 9V idea for approx $5 and then progress to Abartels idea , if you hear any improvement
> Michael


 
  
 Thanks Michael!
  
@Cornan 9V block has a typical internal resistance about 1.5 Ohm which is HUGE.
  
 A Panasonic 18650 cell (LiOn - 3.7V) has between 20 and 40 mOhm depending on type.
  
 4 Panasonics would give you between 6.4V and 7.4V and an internal resistance of max 40 mOhm ( 0.04 Ohm )
 8 Panasonics would give you between 6.4V and 7.4V and an internal resistance of max 20 mOhm ( 0.02 Ohm )
  
 Even better option:
  
 A123 systems LiFePO4 batteries:
  
 They have 18650 and 26650 models, the 18650 are very new, not easy available. 26650 are two models, m1a and m1b (latest version).
 anr26650m1a has 8 mOhm internal resistance and the anr26650m1b has 6 mOhm internal resistance
  
 2x anr26650m1a would give you 6.4V and an internal resistance of 16 mOhm ( 0.016 Ohm )
*4x anr26650m1a would give you 6.4V and a staggering low internal resistance of   8 mOhm ( 0.008 Ohm )*
  
  
  
  
 I think there's NO high-end psu available with this kind of internal resistance, worldwide, ever made................
  
  
  
 Link Aliexpress, 4 ANR26650M1A cells, with soldering lips, $28,80 including shipment to the US
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4PCS-100-Lifepo4-battery-26650-rechargeable-battery-3-2V-2500mAh-50A-Discharge-Lithium-li-ion-Lifepo4/32499987441.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.jWWJZe&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_4_10017_10021_507_10022_10020_2020020_10018_10019,searchweb201603_6&btsid=b2ee63fb-6d52-409c-861e-0dd1d07eb139
  




  
  
  
 Be careful, don't overcharge them, see specs of those batteries!!!


----------



## Cornan

@abartels Thanks for sharing!  I will have a look into this when I have got the time. As said before I am very happy with my Kingrex uPower http://www.kingrex.com/download/U%20power%20MANUAL%20USER%20VERSION-EN.pdf which uses Sanyo 18650 Lithium-ion cells with up to 2600 maH capacity (2x 3,75v) and have no immediate need to change the PSU.
 However, if you know about a battery solution for Aurelic Aries Mini (15-16v 2,5-1,5A) I am all ears! (but maybe if you send me a PM on that one since it is off topic) 
  
 /Micael


----------



## Michael P

Thanks for the A123 info, Abartels
 Any chance you could PM me a wiring diagram and link to a suitable charger?
 Thanks again ,
 Michael


----------



## Jerryfan

michael p said:


> Thanks for the A123 info, Abartels
> Any chance you could PM me a wiring diagram and link to a suitable charger?
> Thanks again ,
> Michael




PM? Post it! I want to see!


----------



## Michael P

If you google batteries in series, parallel, you can find all you need, as I should have done , rather than imposing on Abartels time and goodwill
 However, after a bit a research, it seems as if recharging Lipo batteries is almost a " take your life in your own hands" scenario - as regards the precautions recommended
 A bit more searching found this:
 *******************************
 Batteries with large internal resistance show poor performance in supplying high current pulses. This is because current is decreased with higher resistance. Current equals voltage divided by resistance (i=v/r). So the higher the internal resistance, the lower the current output ability. Low internal resistance batteries are much better at supplying high current pulses.
 Internal resistance also increases as the battery discharges. Therefore, a typical alkaline AA battery may start out with an internal resistance of 0.15Ω but may increase to 0.75Ω when 90 percent discharged.
 The following is a list of typical internal resistances for various batteries. However, the values cannot be assumed to be universal. Check the specific specifications of your battery in use to find out the exact values.
  
  

Battery ​Internal Resistance​9-V zinc carbon​35Ω​9-V lithium​16Ω to 18Ω​9-V alkaline​1Ω to 2Ω​AA alkaline​0.15Ω​AA NiMH​0.02Ω​D Alkaline​0.1Ω​D NiCad​0.009Ω​D SLA​0.006Ω​AC13 zinc-air​5Ω​76 silver​10Ω​675 mercury​10Ω​
  
 Both AA alkaline and AANiMH double in resistance after a 50 percent discharge.
 This table is useful when selecting batteries. The lower the internal resistance, the more desirable the battery. The lower the internal resistance, the more current it can output. However, the batteries all have their different uses, and if high current output is not a necessity, other battery selections can be just as useful.
 ****************************************************************************************************************************************************
 So after more googling and weighing up , price availability , etc... I have opted to get 6 x AA NiH-7.2V ( and a 6 x AA Holder), which should result in approx. a tenth of the resistance of the 9V block battery I am using at present
 Will post asap with any comments if a noticeable improvement is heard
 Michael


----------



## Jerryfan

michael p said:


> If you google batteries in series, parallel, you can find all you need, as I should have done , rather than imposing on Abartels time and goodwill
> However, after a bit a research, it seems as if recharging Lipo batteries is almost a " take your life in your own hands" scenario - as regards the precautions recommended
> A bit more searching found this:
> *******************************
> ...




It can't be any harder on the batteries than my double 18650 electronic cigarette coil at .15 ohms. I put that right up to my face.


----------



## Jerryfan

jerryfan said:


> It can't be any harder on the batteries than my double 18650 electronic cigarette coil at .15 ohms. I put that right up to my face.


 

You just need high drain batteries.


----------



## elviscaprice

If your going to use batteries and don't need the 5V for the DAC, then you might as well do the JKenny mod and use just one of those LiFe PO 4 batteries @3.2V for operating the Regen.  Just use a switching power supply directly connected to the battery for recharging, cheap, $4.  Also, I added a switch between the battery and Regen.
 Those batteries are quite safe.  I've had my set up for some time now, no problems, best sound with the Regen.


----------



## Michael P

I opted to use 6 x AA as previously mentioned - and there seems to be a slight increase in SQ across the board compared to using the 9V block battery - not to mention an apparent increase in runtime - the 6 x AA started out at 7.62 V, and after about 4-5 hours playing, still showing 7.5V
 I also replaced the el cheapo wire of the AA holder with Audience cryo Cu - probably makes no difference , but I just can't help myself !
 Michael


----------



## Cornan

michael p said:


> I opted to use 6 x AA as previously mentioned - and there seems to be a slight increase in SQ across the board compared to using the 9V block battery - not to mention an apparent increase in runtime - the 6 x AA started out at 7.62 V, and after about 4-5 hours playing, still showing 7.5V
> I also replaced the el cheapo wire of the AA holder with Audience cryo Cu - probably makes no difference , but I just can't help myself !
> Michael



Very nice Michael!  Have you tried your setup without the 5v power bank as well? It will work and it could be worth checking out...but of course drain the 6 xAA batteries quicker. IMO less power sources is also important in the quest for better sq.


----------



## Michael P

Hi Cornan - I did try it with the original 9V setup and it drained the 9V battery in a little over 30 minutes - not really practical... 
 Michael


----------



## Cornan

michael p said:


> Hi Cornan - I did try it with the original 9V setup and it drained the 9V battery in a little over 30 minutes - not really practical...
> Michael


 
 Ok, I understand. With a power hungry DAC it is not an optimal solution! :-/


----------



## zilch0md

I just now stumbled onto this new thread at ComputerAudiophile, where* Uptone Audio has announced** their "UltraCap™ LPS-1"* (four days ago).
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/mystery-revealed-uptone-audio-ultracap%99-linear-power-supply-1-a-28609/
  
 It's still not available, but a lot of information has been revealed.
  
 This is the "mystery device" they have been working on as an upgrade to replace the SMPS that ships with the USB Regen.


----------



## hifimanrookie

Read all the pages..sounds very good...BUT..390 usd to power a 175 usd regen? So to have best sound from regen it is going to cost ya 465 usd...thats not cheap..but on other hand..if the sound is indeed sooooo much better then with only the standard smps supply..mmmm..choices choices..


----------



## zilch0md

hifimanrookie said:


> Read all the pages..sounds very good...BUT..390 usd to power a 175 usd regen? So to have best sound from regen it is going to cost ya 465 usd...thats not cheap..but on other hand..if the sound is indeed sooooo much better then with only the standard smps supply..mmmm..choices choices..


 
  
 I think we will see much less unanimity of consensus from buyers of the Ultra-Cap LPS-1 vs. what we've seen with the USB Regen. Uptone Audio selected one of the quietest, low-ripple, SMPS supplies they could find to ship with the USB Regen, but it's not as quiet as many other solutions that people have tried, including battery packs and various mid- to high-end LPSs, including the Uptone Audio JS-2. (Yes, some people are powering the $175 USB Regen with a $995 LPS.)
  
 So, the potential benefits of replacing your current power supply with an Ultra-Cap LPS-1 will be greatly impacted by how "dirty" your power is currently -and- how well the rest of your gear reveals that noise, if any.  (I don't think the JS-2 users will actually hear any improvement, but theoretically, in terms of noise coming from the supply, the Ultra-Cap LPS-1 will outperform the JS-2, for those applications where the LPS-1 can deliver sufficient voltage and amperage (outputting 3.5V, 5V or 7V, at 1A), from a "cheap and dirty" energizing supply of your choice - as long as it can supply the LPS-1 with 12V/1.5A, 9V/2A or 7.5V/2.5A.
  
The insidious thing about a high noise floor is that it's really hard to know what you're putting up with until you lower the noise floor.  And sometimes, its even more dramatic when you go back to the higher noise floor after a few days.  
  
One thing's for sure:  This Ultra-Cap LPS-1 is the first product of its kind, is not dedicated for use with only the USB Regen, and promises to be the absolute cleanest DC power supply anyone's ever not heard.  




  
 As is often the case with new audio gear...  we have to wait for a clear consensus of opinion or just buy it and try it without waiting.  Unfortunately, I suspect some of the guys most likely to be early adopters are also the guys least likely to hear an improvement, because they've already got expensive power supplies and AC power conditioning/filtering gear. 
  
 Mike


----------



## motberg

I think the full isolation offered by the Ultra-Cap LPS-1 may in some (many?) cases prove beneficial even to us using standard good linear power supplies. What it seems to me we have learned the past year is that isolation of the data and power, as well as reclocking and impedance matching are important to address when using USB... I do not think there are any other totally isolated low noise power supplies in this price range except for batteries..


----------



## funch

This is what I'm using. http://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/


----------



## zilch0md

funch said:


> This is what I'm using. http://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/


 
  
 It looks like good design (from what little I know,) not having any DIY skills.  "You didn't build that!"


----------



## Cornan

Do not forget to add that the Ultracap LPS-1 is used in combination with a power supply within the voltage range and is not only a stand alone solution if you buy it without the supplied SMPS. It will make any Volkswagen PSU Into a Rolls Royce PSU!


----------



## ColtMrFire

Just added the ifi iPower power supply to the Regen and it was a nice improvement. Lower noise floor, more micro details... Good stuff.


----------



## mscott58

Think we should start a thread for the UltraCap? Seems that CA is having all the fun! Cheers


----------



## rb2013

coltmrfire said:


> Just added the ifi iPower power supply to the Regen and it was a nice improvement. Lower noise floor, more micro details... Good stuff.


I have an extra 9VDC iFi iPower if anyone is interested. Works great on the Regen. PM me.


----------



## maul

So I've done a little bit of research in this thread but don't know the answer to my question: would the 9VDC iFi iPower be okay to use with the Bifrost?


----------



## crazychile

maul said:


> So I've done a little bit of research in this thread but don't know the answer to my question: would the 9VDC iFi iPower be okay to use with the Bifrost?


 

 I looked into this very thing. I have a Bifrost Multibit and Yggdrasil and have owned the Regen for about a year. I currently use it with the stock power supply. I think the 9V iFi is at the top of the voltage range you should use with the Regen, but I think I read somewhere that it should be fine. You may want to send a PM to superdad and ask just to be sure.
  
 I just bought the Yggdrasil so I'm on a new audio toy hiatus for a while....


----------



## maul

crazychile said:


> I looked into this very thing. I have a Bifrost Multibit and Yggdrasil and have owned the Regen for about a year. I currently use it with the stock power supply. I think the 9V iFi is at the top of the voltage range you should use with the Regen, but I think I read somewhere that it should be fine. You may want to send a PM to superdad and ask just to be sure.
> 
> I just bought the Yggdrasil so I'm on a new audio toy hiatus for a while....


 
  
 Thanks for the response, yeah I read about the voltage thing - that's why I'm concerned. I'll send him a msg...


----------



## V1001

coltmrfire said:


> Just added the ifi iPower power supply to the Regen and it was a nice improvement. Lower noise floor, more micro details... Good stuff.


 
 I did also recently. I have to say it's quite an improvement. Sounds so dang good. Really polished everything up. ridiculously clean and ultra quiet black background. The technology and noise floor on this thing seems to be as real as they talk it up and hype it up to be. Everything went up a notch in realism and naturalness. 
  
 The Ultra-Cap LPS-1 looks very promising. But I wonder if it's going to beat this Ifi with it's ultra low noise floor. I know the LPS-1 is not aiming for the ultra low noise floor per se. But I'm still wondering if it's combined attributes are enough to beat out the ifi overall in improvement. That's a massive price difference too. I could see the technology being used in other gear though so that's exciting. I'm quite happy with my whole set up right now and the Ifi power. At this price I'm going to let other people be the guinny pigs. It's going to have to be a pretty decent improvement though over my ifi power if I'm going to drop that kind of money on it. Love the idea though and technology behind this  Ultra-Cap LPS-1.


----------



## Superdad

v1001 said:


> The Ultra-Cap LPS-1 looks very promising. But I wonder if it's going to beat this Ifi with it's ultra low noise floor. I know the LPS-1 is not aiming for the ultra low noise floor per se. But I'm still wondering if it's combined attributes are enough to beat out the ifi overall in improvement.


 
  
 I'm not allowed to say anything--even though this thread is about our product.  But really?


----------



## elviscaprice

v1001 said:


> I did also recently. I have to say it's quite an improvement. Sounds so dang good. Really polished everything up. ridiculously clean and ultra quiet black background. The technology and noise floor on this thing seems to be as real as they talk it up and hype it up to be. Everything went up a notch in realism and naturalness.
> 
> The Ultra-Cap LPS-1 looks very promising. But I wonder if it's going to beat this Ifi with it's ultra low noise floor. I know the LPS-1 is not aiming for the ultra low noise floor per se. But I'm still wondering if it's combined attributes are enough to beat out the ifi overall in improvement. That's a massive price difference too. I could see the technology being used in other gear though so that's exciting. I'm quite happy with my whole set up right now and the Ifi power. At this price I'm going to let other people be the guinny pigs. It's going to have to be a pretty decent improvement though over my ifi power if I'm going to drop that kind of money on it. Love the idea though and technology behind this  Ultra-Cap LPS-1.


 
  
 Beating the Ifi is quite a low bar to set.  I expect the UltraCap LPS-1 to be revolutionary in comparison.
 Goes on sale starting today.   http://www.uptoneaudio.com/products/ultracap-lps-1


----------



## V1001

elviscaprice said:


> Beating the Ifi is quite a low bar to set.  I expect the UltraCap LPS-1 to be revolutionary in comparison.
> Goes on sale starting today.   http://www.uptoneaudio.com/products/ultracap-lps-1


 
 I would not say that at all. I've found it quite impressive and a steal at only $50. Others seem to really like it too. It's certainly a huge value. Way better than the stock one. But like I said, I'm just waiting to see what others say. It's going to have to be $350 more worth of value. I'm not saying it can't be but you get massive diminishing returns past a certain point. Just worried there is only so much you can squeeze out of the regen. Trust me if it's worth it after some reviews I'll be in line to get one. Just saying at that price it's not an impulse buy. Simply saying I anxiously await the comparisons and reviews.


----------



## elviscaprice

v1001 said:


> I would not say that at all. I've found it quite impressive and a steal at only $50. Others seem to really like it too. It's certainly a huge value. Way better than the stock one. But like I said, I'm just waiting to see what others say. It's going to have to be $350 more worth of value. I'm not saying it can't be but you get massive diminishing returns past a certain point. Just worried there is only so much you can squeeze out of the regen. Trust me if it's worth it after some reviews I'll be in line to get one. Just saying at that price it's not an impulse buy. Simply saying I anxiously await the comparisons and reviews.


 
  
 Who says your limited in use with the Regen?  I will be powering my DAC with the LPS-1.


----------



## V1001

elviscaprice said:


> Who says your limited in use with the Regen?  I will be powering my DAC with the LPS-1.


 
  
 Nobody. But the point still stands since the ifi and anything else can be used on anything you want. So we come back to is there room for sound improvement for what it is and worth the amount asked compared to the alternatives?
  
 Anyway a month later I got my answer. Everyone is saying it's better and worth it to get the LPS-1. I had my doubts for sure, but it seems pretty unanimous. I had to read over on computer Audiophile though. He seems to neglect us over here for some reason. Or is there a thread in another category I missed? 
  
 I went ahead and ordered an LPS-1. Should be here next month as I'm in the second batch. Looking forward to getting it in my system. It's hard to imagine getting even more improvements from such a small device that powers such another smaller device. I already sit down and the sound is so good on my system I literally every time I listen to music am shocked and sit in disbelief as I always say "My word it sounds so insanely good!" with my jaw on the floor. Each and every time. It like never goes away. But believe me I'm finding out constantly how important clean electricity means to audio and it seems it can always get better. This last week I was working on my Kitchen, and had to rearrange some electrical lines. I ended just ripping out an entire garbage cans worth of wires in the basement. The guy made a spaghetti mess down there. Didn't even touch the line on my stereo. Just got rid of a ton of pointless extra wires and lines. Cleaned it all up, and ran about 15 feet of new wire in the middle of some outlets to an outlet in the kitchen. 
  
 The next day I go to listen to music, and holy crud it sounded incredibly perfect, like unbelievably better. It was just crazy how good it sounded. I listened to music for hours late into the night. It was like an entirely new system. I don't even know why. Those extra lines must have been causing a lot of noise on the mains or something. Or possibly one of the lines powered a piece of my gear on one of the outlets. I did clean up the ends of some wires in a line that goes through the kitchen, who the flip knows where that shoots off to next, it's the most baffling wire design I've ever seen. But either way, yeah, seeing more and more how ridiculously important the best power quality is. And glad to know the LPS-1 is worth the money and people are still getting improvements from a device like this.
  
 My next house though I'm running dedicated 10 AWG, 20 amp breaker lines to each outlet in my stereo room. Should be amazing. Actually when I was remodeling this one I ran a 10 AWG dedicated line to my stereo room. Just need to hook it too the  breaker box. But it's on the other side of the room from where I ended up putting my stereo so I never connected it. Maybe I should just flip my stereo around to the other wall and plug into it. Probably be nuts how good it would sound. If it got any better sounding I'd probably cry it would be so astronomically good lol.


----------



## rb2013

v1001 said:


> I would not say that at all. I've found it quite impressive and a steal at only $50. Others seem to really like it too. It's certainly a huge value. Way better than the stock one. But like I said, I'm just waiting to see what others say. It's going to have to be $350 more worth of value. I'm not saying it can't be but you get massive diminishing returns past a certain point. Just worried there is only so much you can squeeze out of the regen. Trust me if it's worth it after some reviews I'll be in line to get one. Just saying at that price it's not an impulse buy. Simply saying I anxiously await the comparisons and reviews.


 

 The LPS-1 still uses a SMPS to power it.
  
 You could look to a cheaper linear power supply like this one:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/131867485038?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I started a series of threads on power supplies if you want more information.


----------



## elviscaprice

http://uptoneaudio.com/products/ultracap-lps-1 





rb2013 said:


> The LPS-1 still uses a SMPS to power it.
> 
> You could look to a cheaper linear power supply like this one:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/131867485038?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> ...


 

 ​The SMPS doesn't matter on the LPS-1, it's galvanicallly isolated from the supply.  It basically uses two separate banks of supercapacitors that are charged by the smps or whatever charger you choose, doesn't matter as long as it is in the proper range.  At no time is there any AC/DC leakage allowed from the smps by switching back and forth between charged banks.


----------



## Superdad

v1001 said:


> Anyway a month later I got my answer. Everyone is saying it's better and worth it to get the LPS-1. I had my doubts for sure, but it seems pretty unanimous. I had to read over on computer Audiophile though. He seems to neglect us over here for some reason. Or is there a thread in another category I missed?
> 
> I went ahead and ordered an LPS-1. ...


 
  
 Thanks very much for your order!  We are confident you will enjoy it.
  
 We are not purposely neglecting the fine folks here at Head-Fi, but the moderators here are very strict with regards to any replies I make concerning our products.  
  
 For example, I would love to reply to rb2013's mention of the UltraCap™ LPS-1's use of an included/optional SMPS as its "energizing"/charging supply and explain in more detail that the evil of SMPS units is almost entirely due to their high AC leakage current forming "leakage loops" with any other PS in your system (including LPS which are also have leakage current) and that the LPS-1 100% blocks that.  
 Or that the low-level, very high-frequency, spread-spectrum noise kicked back by modern SMPS units is possibly less detrimental than the low-frequency 50/60Hz harmonics kicked into the line by all LPS units (except our own power-factor-corrected, choke-filtered big JS-2), and that the bridge rectifier squares you see in lots of cheap power supplies are particularly nasty in this regard.
 But explaining such facts only gets my posts deleted and an admonishment from the mods.  They tell me that if I become a paying sponsor here at Head-Fi, then I can say all that sort of stuff and promote almost as much as I want.  But the several requests I have submitted to their advertising department over the past month regarding sponsorship have gone unanswered.
  
 As you mentioned, there is a very active, very well informed group over at CA, so you are welcome to join us there--where John Swenson and I keep up daily.  
  
 Have a great weekend all!
  
 --Alex C.
 UpTone Audio LLC


----------



## rb2013

elviscaprice said:


> ​The SMPS doesn't matter on the LPS-1, it's galvanicallly isolated from the supply.  It basically uses two separate banks of supercapacitors that are charged by the smps or whatever charger you choose, doesn't matter as long as it is in the proper range.  At no time is there any AC/DC leakage allowed from the smps by switching back and forth between charged banks.


 

 Yes I am familiar in how it works - but the SMPS still feeds noise back into the AC lines.  If you use that to feed it  - maybe a good idea to put it on a AC line filter and isolater.
  
 Of course as Alex will be quick to point out a LPS will also feed some noise back to the AC lines - just orders of magnitude less (depending on the design).  If you stay with a LPS with min capacitors that could reduce that noise - maybe a better way to feed the LPS-1.  But now you are talking additional cost on top of the $400.


----------



## rb2013

To spend $400+ for a power supply to feed the Regen that feeds a USB DDC - is maybe overkill?
 Not saying the LPS-1 is not top draw - would love to have one.
  
 I linked to an excellent $200 LPS - R-Core - 13uv noise for under $200 shipped.  The voltage is adjustable (5-24VDC) and with 6A at 5VDC - it could be used to feed multiple devices at the same voltage.
  
 Here is more info on power supplies for anyone interested:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/821621/audio-power-supplies-part-1-smps-lps-supercap-battery-diy-route-new-devices-opens-up-new-options
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/821731/audio-power-supplies-part-2-smps-lps-supercap-battery-diy-route-new-devices-opens-up-new-options
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/821731/audio-power-supplies-part-2-smps-lps-supercap-battery-diy-route-new-devices-opens-up-new-options
  
 I have two more parts to finish - the next is on Super Cap power supplies.  Researching now the expected life of these SuperCaps...


----------



## elviscaprice

rb2013 said:


> To spend $400+ for a power supply to feed the Regen that feeds a USB DDC - is maybe overkill?
> Not saying the LPS-1 is not top draw - would love to have one.


 
  
 I wouldn't disagree with that.  That's why I will continue to use a single cell LiFe4Po battery on my Regen with a smps power supply trickle charging it.  All for less than $30 and it provides galvanic isolation on the Regen.  Of course you need to modify the Regen with a simple DIY and your DAC (preferable) does not need a 5V vbus feed.
 I think folks overrate the effects of smps feeding noise back into the mains and how that effects SQ. 
  
 Far better places for the LPS-1, such as my DAC/Hugo (coming soon) and the PPA USB card.


----------



## rb2013

elviscaprice said:


> I wouldn't disagree with that.  That's why I will continue to use a single cell LiFe4Po battery on my Regen with a smps power supply trickle charging it.  All for less than $30 and it provides galvanic isolation on the Regen.  Of course you need to modify the Regen with a simple DIY and your DAC (preferable) does not need a 5V vbus feed.
> I think folks overrate the effects of smps feeding noise back into the mains and how that effects SQ.
> 
> Far better places for the LPS-1, such as my DAC/Hugo (coming soon) and the PPA USB card.


 

 I agree on using the LPS-1 in other places - the max current it can supply does limit that though.
  
 I can tell when using a SMPS in my system - even the iFi iPower.  Sold all mine.  Even the SMPS in the Mutec MC-3+ USB and AOIP REDNET 3 where detremental.  Those were sold as well.  I won't use anything by a LPS now.
  
 I have not had much success with LiPo batteries  - they seem to dampen or limit dynamics.  Depending on which battery - they can have very high noise levels.  Higher then a well designed SMPS.  And their ability to supply current on demand is quite limited - judging by their slow rise times.


----------



## Mediahound

Question- if a DAC already has galvanic isolation on the USB does the Regen still help?


----------



## elviscaprice

mediahound said:


> Question- if a DAC already has galvanic isolation on the USB does the Regen still help?


 

 ​Depends on the galvanic isolation implementation.  If it did, it probably would be minimal as some have reported on the 2Qute and others.  I would try the Intona.  If you hear a difference then you have your answer on how good your DAC implementation is.
  
 rb2013, I think it prudent to power any smps on a circuit of their own together.  That being said, the bigger problem with smps supplies is the AC leakage.  That being said, most smps supplies are poor and I agree with you, should be avoided but for a different reason.
  
 As far as Lipo's, some are better than others.  All depends on where they are implemented.  I agree about speed, so at the DAC, definitely not.  Thus my DIY soon on the Hugo.


----------



## rb2013

elviscaprice said:


> ​Depends on the galvanic isolation implementation.  If it did, it probably would be minimal as some have reported on the 2Qute and others.  I would try the Intona.  If you hear a difference then you have your answer on how good your DAC implementation is.
> 
> rb2013, I think it prudent to power any smps on a circuit of their own together.  That being said, the bigger problem with smps supplies is the AC leakage.  That being said, most smps supplies are poor and I agree with you, should be avoided but for a different reason.
> 
> As far as Lipo's, some are better than others.  All depends on where they are implemented.  I agree about speed, so at the DAC, definitely not.  Thus my DIY soon on the Hugo.


 
 The Regen does not provide USB galvanic isolation.  It's main benefit is improving the USB signal integrity by closely matching inpedances (mismatched inpedences causes backwave reflections on the USB data lines) to the USB input - to min the activation of USB AGC circuits to try and overcome varying SI.  The ACG (Automatic Gain Control) on the USB processor increases 8K USB packet noise that can infect the power supply and ground plane.  This noise feeds into the audio clocks and creates jitter.  The second purpose of the Regen is to the feed a cleaner +5VDC power to the USB power leads on the DDC or DAC.  The Regen has excellent TI LDO regulator to filter the noise on the power output.
  
 I have used the Startech GB LAN Ethernet USB extender for excellent GI.   Better then the Intona - but also more expensive.  The Startech (made by ICRON) has high power Xilinx SPARTAN 6 FPGA's at each end.  They translate the USB packets to IP packets, transmit the data stream over UTP CAT6 Ethernet (which has full GI built in) , then back again.

  
  
 The Regen and the W4S Recovery, (which I prefer and I have had both) act as a great way to power a USB DDC or DAC with external  power.  The better SQ I heard from the Recovery is probably due to it using the ultra low phase noise Crystek CCHD-957 clock for reclocking, versus a XO in the Regen.  Although the TI regulator on the Regen is better with 4uv of noise vs the Recovery's 14uv.
  
 I put any SMPS (when I had them) on a Art Audio PB4X4Pro AC line isolator and filter (40dB of common and differential mode rejection).  I still prefer them out.  I have a separate PB4X4Pro for the DAC and PC as well.
  
 I just did an experiment on the Startech - which has four USB ports.  One is used to fed my USB DDC, by way of the Recovery.  The other three I have filled with 256GB USB 3 flash drives.  I have transfer a load of audio files to them and the SQ is really better.  So the Startech can do double duty - GI and SI improvement to the USB DDC and GI (from the PC) isolated solid state storage.
  
 PART 4 of my power supply thread series will include batteries, in addition to Ultra and Super Caps.  The last PART 5 will e dedicated to DIY power supplies - LPS and Battery.  So I would be interested in your DIY project.  I totally agree on not powering a DAC by battery.


----------



## elviscaprice

Very good information and guidance there rb2013.  Agree, Ethernet is another avenue in achieving galvanic isolation.  I think the choice between Ethernet or Intona USB for galvanic isolation still comes down to implementation as far as SQ achieved.  Hard to say which is better. 
 That being said though, I think with Ethernet one is just passing the issues further down the stream but not nearly to the same degree as poor USB implementation.  Sooner or later you have to determine how to enter the DAC.  Also software issues and possible lack of versatility in audio formats/media player can become an issue with Ethernet.  Thus I think it's much easier to remain with USB thru the down stream. 
  
 Think you misread my reply to the other poster, I never claimed the Regen had galvanic isolation.  But I like your detail on what the Regen does, spot on.   Only problem is getting clean power to it.  Thus the suggestion to the poster to just concentrate on adding an additional galvanic isolator first, such as the Intona, or as you suggest Ethernet.   Either way is good.
  
 I'll definitely  update on how my DIY goes with the Chord Hugo and it's replacement of the Lipo batteries with the LPS-1.


----------



## rb2013

elviscaprice said:


> Very good information and guidance there rb2013.  Agree, Ethernet is another avenue in achieving galvanic isolation.  I think the choice between Ethernet or Intona USB for galvanic isolation still comes down to implementation as far as SQ achieved.  Hard to say which is better.
> That being said though, I think with Ethernet one is just passing the issues further down the stream but not nearly to the same degree as poor USB implementation.  Sooner or later you have to determine how to enter the DAC.  Also software issues and possible lack of versatility in audio formats/media player can become an issue with Ethernet.  Thus I think it's much easier to remain with USB thru the down stream.
> 
> Think you misread my reply to the other poster, I never claimed the Regen had galvanic isolation.  But I like your detail on what the Regen does, spot on.   Only problem is getting clean power to it.  Thus the suggestion to the poster to just concentrate on adding an additional galvanic isolator first, such as the Intona, or as you suggest Ethernet.   Either way is good.
> ...


 

 Well some knowledgeable folks have pointed out the issues with the Intona (dirty regulators on the output side of the GI bridge), and I have pointed out many times the very low cost and very high phase noise of the SiTime CMEMS clocks in the Intona.  These low end clocks - have to reclock the USB data stream.  They were chosen due to one of the design parameters of the Intona was use in 'industrial' applications - so the need to with stand +2G lateral accelerations.  And Crystal based clocks would fail under such conditions.  If you look at the SiTime clock lineup - their CMEMS rank at the bottom for performance.  So the Intona while addressing GI it creates other issues.
  
As Intona states:
 



> Then the quality of the crystal oscillator is important too. Are you using, say, Crystek oscillators? It is a SiLabs MEMS oscillator, with measured Jitter around 2ps. This is, because *1. we have some customers that need mechanicly rugged hardware because they use our isolators at repeated >2g acceleration 24h/7d - crystals will fail her*e - and 2. power consumption of MEMS is 1/10 of crystals. As all voltage regulators are linear in the isolator, we had to pay attention to overall efficiency.






  
 The Startech/Icron/PS Audio GB LAN USB Ethernet extenders - offer a unique solution to USB GI - and enhance the USB SI.  This is not any ordinary USB extender - but one capable of very high throughput (the PS Audio LANRover is made by ICRON and uses a similar method - just with lower cost ASIC chips vs the SPARTAN 6 FPGA).  So can pass an improved USB SI to 384K and 256DSD data streams with ease.  The sender box employs high quality XO clocks for the recreated USB output.  And even better both units can be fed a LPS power source - this improves the SQ even further.  I have 24VDC LPS feeding the REX and a 5VDC LPS feeding the LEX.
  
 This lead to finding an even better solution to computer audio - doing away with USB completely!  See my AOIP thread (Audio over IP).  The Rednet boxes which use the DANTE AOIP protocol have created waves in many audio circles.  Virtually everyone who has compared sota or near sota USB to AOIP agrees that AOIP is superior.
  
 Here is my thread on that subject - really a seachange in computer audio.  But the Startech Ethernet solution does work wonders for USB.  I have tried virtually every USB gizmo made - and this was a major SQ improvement.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/806827/audio-over-ip-rednet-3-16-review-aes67-sets-a-new-standard-for-computer-audio


----------



## motberg

> I have tried vritually every USB gizmo made


 
 Have you tried the Intona in your system and compared it directly to the Startech/Icron/PS Audio GB LAN USB Ethernet extenders?


----------



## rb2013

motberg said:


> Have you tried the Intona in your system and compared it directly to the Startech/Icron/PS Audio GB LAN USB Ethernet extenders?


 

 Yes and I much prefer the Startech - esp now that it performs so well as a solid state - GI'd storage solution.


----------



## elviscaprice

rb2013 said:


> Well some knowledgeable folks have pointed out the issues with the Intona (dirty regulators on the output side of the GI bridge), and I have pointed out many times the very low cost and very high phase noise of the SiTime CMEMS clocks in the Intona.  These low end clocks - have to reclock the USB data stream.  They were chosen due to one of the design parameters of the Intona was use in 'industrial' applications - so the need to with stand +2G lateral accelerations.  And Crystal based clocks would fail under such conditions.  If you look at the SiTime clock lineup - their CMEMS rank at the bottom for performance.  So the Intona while addressing GI it creates other issues.
> 
> As Intona states:
> 
> ...


 

 ​Basically I am ending up in the same place with the Intona no 5V vbus/ Regan (jKenny mod) no 5V vbus as the Startech.  The XO clock being of similar nature between the Regen and Startech.  Without the need to improve power source for galvanic isolation, which you will have to do with the Startech.  Ethernet also has it's issues as some are finding out with galvanic isolation.
 I still maintain it's better to remain in the USB domain.  Your just pushing the issues further away with Ethernet and causing more software limitations.  But it is a viable alternative if it fulfills your needs.
 Best to have a DAC that doesn't require any 5V vbus.


----------



## rb2013

elviscaprice said:


> ​Basically I am ending up in the same place with the Intona no 5V vbus/ Regan (jKenny mod) no 5V vbus as the Startech.  The XO clock being of similar nature between the Regen and Startech.  Without the need to improve power source for galvanic isolation, which you will have to do with the Startech.  Ethernet also has it's issues as some are finding out with galvanic isolation.
> I still maintain it's better to remain in the USB domain.  Your just pushing the issues further away with Ethernet and causing more software limitations.  But it is a viable alternative if it fulfills your needs.
> Best to have a DAC that doesn't require any 5V vbus.


 

 I'll have to check out that Jkenny mod on the Regen - I had three of his Hifaces - back in the old days.  I agree clocks on the Regen and Startech are similar and much better then the Intona's.
  
 The issues with Ethernet and GI - is the use of STP Cat6 and Cat 7 cables versus UTP.  I tried a FMC fiber between the Startech boxes and it really didn't help.  But I was using a BJC Cat6 UTP cable.  BTW you can use a Cat6 or Cat7 STP - you just have to disconnect one end of the shield from the plug.  On my AOIP thread we had a member who works in a server farm - massive amounts of disk drives and power in one building - a EMI soup and he never had an issue with using UTP cables.  But you could use a GISO or FMC in between if one is really paranoid about GI and Ethernet.
  
 Let me say I have been down the USB only path - way down and adding the Startech has been a revelation.
  
 Here is what I have owned and heard and my rankings:
 REDNET 3/Cerious Graphene/Mutec 3+ USB (SPDIF)/Antelope OCX (RN wClock)           270
REDNET 3/Cerious/Mutec 3+ USB/Audience au24 se digital cable                               250
REDNET 3/Cerious/Mutec 3+ USB (SPDIF reclocker)/AS Sliver Statement dig cable        240
REDNET 3/Cerious Power Cord                                                                               220
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2/Startech GB LAN Iso USB               170
Mutec 3+ Smart Clock USB/Cerious Power Cord                                                        155
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2                                                   145
PUC2 Lite TeraDak DC30W/Cerious/Regen                                                               135
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious                                                                                   135
DXIO Silver/TeraDak DC-30W/Cerious                                                                      130
Singxer X-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/iPur2                                                    125
PUC2 Lite - USB power                                                                                          110
Singxer F-1  Stock feed                                                                                          110
Breeze/Cerious Graph/WBT RCA Nexgen                                                                   109
Breeze DU-U8 with Cerious Graphene                                                                      108
  Breeze DU-U8 (Talema version)                                                                              100
Breeze DU-U8 (BingZi version)                                                                                 95
Hydra Z with LPS                                                                                                    92
Melodious MX-U8 (upgraded caps)                                                                             85
Melodious MX-U8 (stock)                                                                                          81
Gustard U12 (upgraded caps)                                                                                    76
Gustard U12 stock                                                                                                   72
iDAC DAC2 (used as a DDC)                                                                                      65
Musiland USB3.0 US Dragon                                                                                      65
M2Tech EVO with LPS                                                                                              60
Audiophileo 2  USB Power                                                                                         50
M2Tech Hiface                                                                                                         40


----------



## Audio Addict

rb2013 said:


> Yes and I much prefer the Startech - esp now that it performs so well as a solid state - GI'd storage solution.


 
  
 Do you know where you can purchase it instead of the 599 PS Audio LanRover?


----------



## Hi Rez

rb2013 said:


> To spend $400+ for a power supply to feed the Regen that feeds a USB DDC - is maybe overkill?
> Not saying the LPS-1 is not top draw - would love to have one.


 
  
 My thoughts exactly....
  
 Then I tried the LPS-1 with a Regen -> Ayre QB-9 DSD.  It replaced an UpTone JS-2.
  
 My Regen path started with the stock SMPS.  With the SMPS, the Regen added a naturalness to the music.  Wouldn't have called it a night and day difference, but I wouldn't have called it just a subtle difference either.
  
 The stock SMPS was upgraded to the JS-2.  I was surprised by the magnitude of the change.   Upgrading to the JS-2 was a larger change than initially adding the Regen with the stock SMPS.
  
 I had originally ordered the LPS-1 to use in my transportable rig, but just for laughs tried it powering the Regen in my main system.  I was not expecting much of a change as I was already using a top linear PS (JS-2)  to power the Regen - color me surprised.  Switching from the JS-2 to the LPS-1 was a larger improvement than going from the SMPS to the JS-2.  Not what I expected at all.
  
 The choice between a $200 linear power supply and the LPS-1 might not be so easy after all.  My experience might have the LPS-1 being the better value for the money.
  
 I was already sold on clean power with the JS-2.  The LPS-1 just make me more sold....
  
 YMMV.


----------



## Superdad

rb2013 said:


> I'll have to check out that Jkenny mod on the Regen - I had three of his Hifaces - back in the old days.  I agree clocks on the Regen and Startech are similar and much better then the Intona's.


 
  
 Hi Rob:
  
 Check the clock speed on the Starch/ICRON receive end and I think you will find that clock is for the Spartan FPGA.  It has been a while since I read ICRON's developer kit notes, but I recall that they synthesize the USB clock--either in the FPGA or in a USB PHY chip.  If you don't see more than one XO on the board than that is what is happening.  Maybe it does not matter too much since ICRON embeds an entire USB protocol engine into the FPGA--though I thought they still had some PHYs.
  
 Signal integrity is not the Startech/ICRON's strong suit--galvanic isolation is (especially if you power the receive end in a way that does not again give a path for AC leakage currents). Hopefully PS Audio chose to add a dedicate USB clock to their LANRover version as that would seem obvious.  
  
 We've been toying with ICRON's SO-DIMM form-factor version for a while but have not made a decision about making a REGEN-like baseboard (great clock, impedance match, ultra-low-noise power network--all the obvious stuff) and offering it to market.  ICRON's OEM prices are not low, so a product of that sort would end up priced similarly to the $600 LAN Rover.


----------



## jermaink

Can an iFi iPower 9V/1.5A be a suitable 'energising' supply for the UltraCap LPS-1? It is apparently a tad shy on the recommended current. I guess it also depends on the amount of current drawn downstream..


----------



## Superdad

jermaink said:


> Can an iFi iPower 9V/1.5A be a suitable 'energising' supply for the UltraCap LPS-1? It is apparently a tad shy on the recommended current. I guess it also depends on the amount of current drawn downstream..


 

 There are two different versions of the 9V iFi iPower:  The early ones were rated at 1.5A, and the latter, current ones are capable of 2.0A.  The latter work fine to "energize" the LPS-1 while the former do not.  (We have both versions of the iPower, so this is tested fact, not speculation.)
  
 The strict requirements for an "energizing"/charging supply for the LPS-1 are:
 7.5V/2.5A
 9V/2.0A
 12V/1.5A
  
 Current capability is of course allowed to be greater (e.g. 9V/3A), but those are the amperage capabilities necessary across the acceptable 7.5-12V range.
 Frankly, since the quality of the "energizing" supply makes ZERO difference to the output of the LPS-1, folks ought to just get the 7.5V/2.93A Mean Well that comes with the LPS-1 (as opposed to saving $15 by omitting it), and use their iPower SMPS warts elsewhere.


----------



## rb2013

audio addict said:


> Do you know where you can purchase it instead of the 599 PS Audio LanRover?


 

 Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HFGQESY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 This is the version with the Xilinx SPARTAN 6 FPGA's.  Icron OEM's this for Startech - but I believe they are not supply additional units with the Xilinx FPGA's.
  
 There is the ICRON ASIC version as well:
 Just a note of caution - ICRON has many different version of this unit.  You want the GB LAN USB extender version that can do iso audio
  
 http://www.icron.com/products/icron-brand/usb-extenders/lan/usb-2-0-ranger-2304ge-lan/
 http://www.kvm-switches-online.com/00-00335.html
  
 Both have four USB ports and are cheaper then the LanRover.


----------



## rb2013

hi rez said:


> My thoughts exactly....
> 
> Then I tried the LPS-1 with a Regen -> Ayre QB-9 DSD.  It replaced an UpTone JS-2.
> 
> ...


 

 I also heard an improvement feeding the Regen with a LPS - not a $925 one like the lovely JS-2.  The SMPS really doesn't do the Regen justice.
  
 Execellent feedback on the LPS-1! Are you selling your JS-2?


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> Hi Rob:
> 
> Check the clock speed on the Starch/ICRON receive end and I think you will find that clock is for the Spartan FPGA.  It has been a while since I read ICRON's developer kit notes, but I recall that they synthesize the USB clock--either in the FPGA or in a USB PHY chip.  If you don't see more than one XO on the board than that is what is happening.  Maybe it does not matter too much since ICRON embeds an entire USB protocol engine into the FPGA--though I thought they still had some PHYs.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Alex I see only one clock in both the REX and the LEX - and of course use a Recovery - with Crystek CCHD -957 clocks post the REX.  The REX and LEX do benefit from LPS's.

  


> Check the clock speed on the Starch/ICRON receive end and I think you will find that clock is for the Spartan FPGA.  It has been a while since I read ICRON's developer kit notes, but I recall that they synthesize the USB clock--either in the FPGA or in a USB PHY chip.  If you don't see more than one XO on the board than that is what is happening.  Maybe it does not matter too much since ICRON embeds an entire USB protocol engine into the FPGA--though I thought they still had some PHYs.


 
 I see that the Chord Hugo DAC has only one clock as well.  It uses Xilinx SPARTAN 6 FPGA - that is must be how they use the FPGA's as well.

 Would love to see you guys build that GB LAN Ethernet USB solution.
  
 I do use a Recovery post the REX to good effect - with a iPur2 directly plugged into the F-1 DDC.  The Recovery feeding it.
  
 PS I have good success filling those other three open USB slots in the REX with 256GB USB 3.0 PNY sticks - so a total of 750GB of solid state storage - completely galvanically isolated from the PC USB.  Sounds excellent!  If we get another iteration in USB 3.0 stick prices - I could swap in 3 - 512GB's down the road - for 1.5TB total.  I paid $120 total for all three PNY 256GB USB sticks - Best Buy!
  
 I'm only using a noisy LT1083/R-core cheap LPS on the REX - it needs 2A/24VDC. 
 Unfortunately not something the LSP-1 could power - even if I could get away with 18VDC or even 12VDC.  So I'm looking to build something better myself.
  
 So if you guys build that - put four USB slots in there!  Not one like PS did.


----------



## Superdad

rb2013 said:


> Hi Alex I see only one clock in both the REX and the LEX - and of course use a Recovery - with Crystek CCHD -957 clocks post the REX.  The REX and LEX do benefit from LPS's.
> 
> 
> I see that the Chord Hugo DAC has only one clock as well.  It uses Xilinx SPARTAN 6 FPGA - that is must be how they use the FPGA's as well.
> ...


 
  
 Hi Rob:
  
 Sorry, I know you hate it when I correct you, but I know that facts and details are important to you.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 a)The W4S Recovery uses the Crystek 575, not the 3 times the price 957.  (That's okay as the 575 is the better clock anyway.)
 b) That's not a Chord Hugo in the photo you posted. It is the QBD76 from 2008, and I count a total of five clocks in it, include a cheap oval-can crystal for the USB input--next to the TI USB processor.
  
 I am curious about your use of USB sticks in the REX end of the Startech.  I guess the advantage is just that it is not a USB or SATA drive, power supply, etc. hanging off your computer and contributing to more processing and more PS leakage currents.  Because it is not as if the data on those sticks all of a sudden has a short path to the DAC connected in the port next to it. That data has to be called by the computer, sent back up and through the USB>Ethernet>USB line, then back down from the computer along the same path.  Not very efficient.
  
 I don't doubt that you hear a positive difference. I just want to be sure that nobody thinks that the DAC is somehow getting a more direct feed by those thumb drives being plugged into the same hub that it is.  USB DACs are not hosts (except for streamer/DACs and units like the Oppo that have USB "A" host ports and computing to directly read drives with).
  
 Ciao,
  
 --Alex C.


----------



## maul

Edit: Changed my mind.


----------



## Audio Addict

rb2013 said:


> Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HFGQESY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> This is the version with the Xilinx SPARTAN 6 FPGA's.  Icron OEM's this for Startech - but I believe they are not supply additional units with the Xilinx FPGA's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is probably a dumb question but you run ethernet from the Local to Remote and connect by USB into the Local and USB out of the Remote.  That means still running wires.


----------



## Hi Rez

rb2013 said:


> I also heard an improvement feeding the Regen with a LPS - not a $925 one like the lovely JS-2.  The SMPS really doesn't do the Regen justice.
> 
> Execellent feedback on the LPS-1! Are you selling your JS-2?


 
  
 Probably not.  The JS-2 is currently still in the system.  I would need another LPS-1 to completely replace it.  
  
 We'll have to see if I eventually go down that route, but in that case I would probably use the JS-2 in another system.


----------



## motberg

Quote:


hi rez said:


> Probably not.  The JS-2 is currently still in the system.  I would need another LPS-1 to completely replace it.
> 
> We'll have to see if I eventually go down that route, but in that case I would probably use the JS-2 in another system.


 

 This is what I am worried about... I only have 1 LPS-1 on order and could easily use 3  
 Many thanks for the comments, much appreciated....


----------



## motberg

maul said:


> .
> I know about the whole "close to the dac" philosophy, but this is working for me. I was considering selling the Regen soon, but this has changed my mind. I noticed that the converter isn't in the best shape, it has some blackish marks around the connectors - maybe that is the cause, or maybe a quality USB cable simply performs better than the cheap converter. Either way, I recommend trying this yourself, maybe you'll get similar results. Maybe I'll change my mind in a week, we'll see.


 
 I have 3 different adapters and tried 5 different brands of short cables, the cables always win... not even close in my system. That goes for the Regen, Recovery and Intona...
 You could try even shorter, like 6 inches.. there may be some of the high-end style "Regen-Link" stuff like from PPA, Curious, Elijah, etc available on the used market and in my experience they would be a worthwhile investment, especially between the Regen and the DAC where short and high quality is beneficial.


----------



## elviscaprice

I find as I've eliminated all electrical interferences/ground loops in my USB stream, that cables/adapters matter the least.  Just a good data line connection is all that is needed, no 5V.  Since 5V is needed with the Intona, make this a short run from USB card with an adapter.  Longer run between Intona to Regen, eliminate the 5V vbus wire and pins, for further safety to ensure against ground loops, cut into the shielding, remove a portion and allow the ground wire  to be disconnected after handshake.
 From Regen to DAC it is important to keep this distance as short as possible to ensure the impedance reset by the Regen remains as good as possible.


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> Hi Rob:
> 
> Sorry, I know you hate it when I correct you, but I know that facts and details are important to you.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Alex - please correct me - as always I respect your knowledge.  I see the one clock on the MB and the small oval clock for USB (but was not figuring that into the DAC equation) - I do see the two clock now on the small board to the left.  In any event - the SPARTAN 6 FPGA - can't be all bad - in terms of noise and jitter as Chord uses it in their totl DAVE.
 (I think I have that picture correct)

  
 No I agree with you on those USB sticks not being a more direct path to the DAC - but they sound better.  My thinking for the reason  - a lower noise environment during the conversion from solid state to electrical digital stream is somehow better.  Less lost packets?  Higher SI?  And data throughput seems very robust.  No problem with 352k DxD files.  I don't even see any latency increases with Foobar, although there must be some.  My next experiment is to load the WIN10 on them and boot and run it from there.  Should be interesting.
  
 Cheers!
 Bob


----------



## rb2013

audio addict said:


> This is probably a dumb question but you run ethernet from the Local to Remote and connect by USB into the Local and USB out of the Remote.  That means still running wires.


 
 I haven't tried wifi - but did try a fiber FMC in between.  Not much of an improvement.  So I suppose you could run fiber instead.


----------



## rb2013

elviscaprice said:


> I find as I've eliminated all electrical interferences/ground loops in my USB stream, that cables/adapters matter the least.  Just a good data line connection is all that is needed, no 5V.  Since 5V is needed with the Intona, make this a short run from USB card with an adapter.  Longer run between Intona to Regen, eliminate the 5V vbus wire and pins, for further safety to ensure against ground loops, cut into the shielding, remove a portion and allow the ground wire  to be disconnected after handshake.
> From Regen to DAC it is important to keep this distance as short as possible to ensure the impedance reset by the Regen remains as good as possible.


 
 I agree - I had the 200mm Curious - and replaced it with the Recovery's 6in USB - no change in sound.
  
 I use a LH Labs 2G split cable - data leg only.  I also modded a Jitterbug into a +5VDCVBUS blocker.  I have this at the PC USB port.
  
 But last night moved it to the Startech REX - before feeding Recovery.  Nice improvement in SQ.  The Startech likes one JB.


----------



## maul

motberg said:


> I have 3 different adapters and tried 5 different brands of short cables, the cables always win... not even close in my system. That goes for the Regen, Recovery and Intona...
> You could try even shorter, like 6 inches.. there may be some of the high-end style "Regen-Link" stuff like from PPA, Curious, Elijah, etc available on the used market and in my experience they would be a worthwhile investment, especially between the Regen and the DAC where short and high quality is beneficial.


 
  
 Well I'm glad to hear that it's not just me, I do recommend other people try this. Unfortunately I can't go shorter than 1 foot each in my setup - around $100 is my limit for both cables, going to be seeing how the Wireworld Ultraviolets are tomorrow.


----------



## zilch0md

rb2013 said:


> I agree - I had the 200mm Curious - and replaced it with the Recovery's 6in USB - no change in sound.
> 
> I use a LH Labs 2G split cable - data leg only.  I also modded a Jitterbug into a +5VDCVBUS blocker.  I have this at the PC USB port.
> 
> But last night moved it to the Startech REX - before feeding Recovery.  Nice improvement in SQ.  The Startech likes one JB.


 
  
 For those who have a DAC that requires 5V power from the USB Regen, try testing this $5.00, 6-inch Belkin USB cable as an alternative to the hard adapter or anything else you've tried using between the USB Regen and your DAC.
  

  
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000067RMY
  
 It's only five dollars. Try it and draw your own conclusions, with an open mind and diligent listening.
  
 I am thrilled with this cable, personally.
  
 YMMV, but if it doesn't make an improvement, you can always post a reply saying, "Thanks a lot for talking me into wasting five bucks, Mike!"  
  

  
 Mike


----------



## PWGuy

I b





zilch0md said:


> For those who have a DAC that requires 5V power from the USB Regen, try testing this $5.00, 6-inch Belkin USB cable as an alternative to the hard adapter or anything else you've tried using between the USB Regen and your DAC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I bought this over a year ago and have found no discernible difference between it and the hard adapter supplied by Uptone - it's a cheap, no brained alternative!


----------



## maul

zilch0md said:


> For those who have a DAC that requires 5V power from the USB Regen, try testing this $5.00, 6-inch Belkin USB cable as an alternative to the hard adapter or anything else you've tried using between the USB Regen and your DAC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have that cable, I found it certainly to be on the bright side - could be great depending on your setup. I feel like I have to put some disclaimer when mentioning cables sounding different, because I used to be very skeptical myself until I had a decent system. Anyway


----------



## foreverzer0

zilch0md said:


> For those who have a DAC that requires 5V power from the USB Regen, try testing this $5.00, 6-inch Belkin USB cable as an alternative to the hard adapter or anything else you've tried using between the USB Regen and your DAC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks a lot for talking me into wasting five bucks, Mike! I found the short cable that came with the Regen sounded better than this Belkin. In fact, it's thicker meaning either thicker gauge, more shielding, or both!


----------



## zilch0md

^ LOL  YMMV


----------



## Superdad

foreverzer0 said:


> Thanks a lot for talking me into wasting five bucks, Mike! I found the short cable that came with the Regen sounded better than this Belkin. In fact, it's thicker meaning either thicker gauge, more shielding, or both!


 

 Well the last time I bought one of those Belkin cables--expecting it to be thick like the one in the photo and like the 1/2-meter one I've had for years--I was disappointed to receive a crappy thin one.


----------



## zilch0md

^ Counterfeit?


----------



## maciora

I can't find clear answer for one my question. I want to order USB silver clear Cable 30cm from Terminal HP 5730 for USB Uptone Regen . For uptone Regen I have Linear Power Supply 7,5V/2,5A . My DAC M2Tech Hiface dac is plugged directly to Uptone Regen.
 My question is : which solution will be better , cut only +5V or also GND pin ?


----------



## Sherwood

It would be smarter to cut neither, and just put electrical tape over the appropriate pins on the connectors themselves.  Better resale value, and electrically identical performance.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Objectively/technically speaking which product has the best clock- Wyrd, Regen, or Recovery or are the clocks all equally good?


----------



## doctorjazz

There's also the LH Labs revive.


----------



## rb2013

rsbrsvp said:


> Objectively/technically speaking which product has the best clock- Wyrd, Regen, or Recovery or are the clocks all equally good?


 

 Recovery - ultra low phase noise Crystek CCHD-575


----------



## rsbrsvp

When using regen or wyrd with jitterbug should jitterbug be after the regen/wyrd or before?


----------



## Hi Rez

rsbrsvp said:


> When using regen or wyrd with jitterbug should jitterbug be after the regen/wyrd or before?


 
 With the Regen, always before.


----------



## deserat

Just a quick impression.
  
 Schiit Mimby  - I haven't heard this but i loaned the regen to a freind and withing 30 minutes he bought one for himself has been raving about it ever since.
 Schiit Bimby - Easily noticeable improvements in instrument separation and better detail in both sub bass and highs.
 Schiit Gumby - Maybe there was a difference, maybe not. If there was it wasn't dramatic.


----------



## mwhals

I ordered a Regen today and am looking forward to using it in my system.


----------



## Jerryfan

mwhals said:


> I ordered a Regen today and am looking forward to using it in my system.




They still make those?....

Kidding, I'm sure you'll love it.


----------



## mwhals

jerryfan said:


> They still make those?....
> 
> Kidding, I'm sure you'll love it.




It shipped the day I ordered it.


----------



## Superdad

jerryfan said:


> They still make those?....
> 
> Kidding, I'm sure you'll love it.


 

 Yup.  Over 100 per month still fly out.  Money-back guarantee and 3-year warranty.


----------



## foreverzer0

What happened to the Intona + Regen device?


----------



## guzmanatm

foreverzer0 said:


> What happened to the Intona + Regen device?


 
  
 To the best of my knowledge it's still coming. There just aren't many details about what it does, or when we can expect it to be released.
  
 On the other hand, even if Alex did have updates to share, he wouldn't be able to post them here. Apparently he's prohibited from discussing UpTone's new products openly on this site . . .


----------



## foreverzer0

guzmanatm said:


> To the best of my knowledge it's still coming. There just aren't many details about what it does, or when we can expect it to be released.
> 
> On the other hand, even if Alex did have updates to share, he wouldn't be able to post them here. Apparently he's prohibited from discussing UpTone's new products openly on this site . . .


 
  
 What about on other sites (i.e. CA) or PM?


----------



## Superdad

foreverzer0 said:


> What happened to the Intona + Regen device?




Announcement coming VERY soon. This important leap is certainly about 6 months overdue. Just squashed the elusive last bug. Going into final beta shortly.

Please no PMs about it.

Many thanks,

--Alex C.


----------



## rsbrsvp

It is easy to combine intona and regen or recovery.
  
 I have one intona feeding my RUR and a second intona with a USB voltage booster which cost a few dollars  (because I need 9V and usb output is 5V) feeding the power on the RUR. 
  
 I now have galvanically isolated power combined with ultra low jitter.
  
 Smoothest sound I ever heard from a computer.
  
 By the way- which as lower jitter- RUR or ifi iUSB 3.0?


----------



## Superdad

rsbrsvp said:


> It is easy to combine intona and regen or recovery.
> 
> I have one intona feeding my RUR and a second intona with a USB voltage booster which cost a few dollars  (because I need 9V and usb output is 5V) feeding the power on the RUR.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, placing a REGEN or Recovery after an Intona to improve signal integrity is a good combination.  But be advised that, unless you power your USB SI improvement device with either a battery supply or another 100% isolated from AC leakage current/loop supply such as our UltraCap LPS-1, you are defeating part of the Intona's galvanic isolation by reintroducing a leakage current loop (between the PS of the REGEN/Recovery and your computer source and rest of your audio gear).
  
 It's like building a house with a moat but having an open footbridge across the moat around back.
  
 As for your jitter question:
 While jitter in the USB signal (as seen in the eye-pattern) is not nearly the same as jitter on the DAC audio master clock (USB clock is always round number--24MHz or 25MHz--and not related to audio clocking), it still does, rather surprisingly, have a sonic impact.
 The W4S Recovery--and our forthcoming ISO REGEN--use the Crystek CCHD-575.  That is an expensive ($10/ea at 1,000 pieces), ultra-low-phase-noise clock--one worthy of being and often used as a DAC master clock.  (Current production of this clock is measuring better than Crystek's published graphs---better than their own $30 CCHD-957, and better than typical NDK that many like.)
 It is not clear what clock the iFi iUSB uses, but from high-res photos it is clearly not a Crystek.
  
 Ciao,
  
 --Alex C.


----------



## rsbrsvp

superdad said:


> Yes, placing a REGEN or Recovery after an Intona to improve signal integrity is a good combination.  But be advised that, unless you power your USB SI improvement device with either a battery supply or another 100% isolated from AC leakage current/loop supply such as our UltraCap LPS-1, you are defeating part of the Intona's galvanic isolation by reintroducing a leakage current loop (between the PS of the REGEN/Recovery and your computer source and rest of your audio gear).
> 
> It's like building a house with a moat but having an open footbridge across the moat around back.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm not sure I explained myself well.    I have my Mac mini via USB to Intona via USB to RUR via USB to my DAC.  To power my RUR I have my Mac Mini connected via USB to a second Intona which then connects to an inexpensive USB voltage booster I bought on E bay (to increase the intona usb output from 5 to 9 volts) which then powers my RUR.  Therefore my power is galvanically isolated all the way through and I have the RUR clock which is according to you and others one of the very best available.   
  
 I actually tried to power the RUR with a 9 volt lithium battery pack and it was no where near as good as powering it through my second intona with voltage booster.  Even lithium batteries make noise; no comparison to totally galvanically isolated power.


----------



## Superdad

rsbrsvp said:


> I'm not sure I explained myself well.    I have my Mac mini via USB to Intona via USB to RUR via USB to my DAC.  To power my RUR I have my Mac Mini connected via USB to a second Intona which then connects to an inexpensive USB voltage booster I bought on E bay (to increase the intona usb output from 5 to 9 volts) which then powers my RUR.  Therefore my power is galvanically isolated all the way through and I have the RUR clock which is according to you and others one of the very best available.
> 
> I actually tried to power the RUR with a 9 volt lithium battery pack and it was no where near as good as powering it through my second intona with voltage booster.  Even lithium batteries make noise; no comparison to totally galvanically isolated power.


 

 Okay.  That sounds like an expensive way to go--two Intona units...   And still the USB voltage booster likely uses a noisy switching regulator to give your RuR it's VBUS power.
  
 I am trying to avoid getting banned by management (from the thread about our own product). [And yet despite 6+ attempts to contact anyone in Head-Fi mgmnt. about sponsorship and advertising, they never reply.]
 But as hinted at above (I uttered the name), soon there will be one small box that does it all.  You would be able to sell both your Intonas and the RuR, buy the new thing and have $$ leftover for a year's streaming subscription or some nice dinners with your significant other.


----------



## rsbrsvp

First- my voltage booster has NO switching regulators and is dead silent.
  
 Regarding how much I spent on two intonas and a RUR;- well- your product is not available yet nor did I know it would be..  If it was- I would of bought it instead and achieved a very similar result.
  
 My two intonas and RUR is nevertheless certainly cheaper and I would guess better than a RUR or Regen and a $1000 power supply.
  
 I wish you luck on your project.   I know it will sound incredible because I already have it in my own made up way.  An all in one box solution will be preferred.


----------



## Superdad

rsbrsvp said:


> First- my voltage booster has NO switching regulators and is dead silent.
> 
> Regarding how much I spent on two intonas and a RUR;- well- your product is not available yet nor did I know it would be..  If it was- I would of bought it instead and achieved a very similar result.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi:
  
 Sorry if I gave any offense.  I meant none at all.  I was just surprised, as you are the first person I have ever seen using a second Intona just to provide voltage to step-up to power an RuR.  Very creative! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am guessing your DAC does not draw any current from the VBUS of the RuR.  Because a linear boost converter has to trade off current to boost the Intona's voltage from 5V to 9V.  And the Intona (unless you are feeding it from a separate 1A allowing USB VBUS) only offers 300mA at 5V.  The RuR, with no load on its VBUS output probably draws only about 80mA at 9V, thus the large current loss through the booster is not a problem.
 In any case, it does work well for you and I think that is great!
  
 Not sure where you comment about a $1,000 power supply comes in.  Our UltraCap LPS-1 sells for $395.  (Yes, our big choke-filtered, dual-output, 5-7 amp JS-2 LPS is $925--but that is generally used for other applications.)
  
 All the best,
  
 --Alex C.


----------



## rsbrsvp

superdad said:


> Hi:
> 
> Sorry if I gave any offense.  I meant none at all.  I was just surprised, as you are the first person I have ever seen using a second Intona just to provide voltage to step-up to power an RuR.  Very creative!
> 
> ...


 
 I am using a USB dac which is completely powered by the USB port.   I do NOT use USB cables but rather USB ultra short adaptors to make sure there is enough current.  So mac via USB cabe to intona vial USB adaptor to RUR via USB adaptor to dac.    If I switch those adaptors for one meter or even half meter cables- I then do not have the power to get my dac to make music in this setup.  Again- your way of doing things should be better- as my way was just a makeshift solution until someone finally came out with what I wanted.   In the meantime- I have in theory at least- completely galvanically isolated power and data with one of the best clocks out there feeding my dac.   It's funny.  My dac is worth about $200 and with this usb filtering setup behind it (worth about $700) it sounds substantially superior to my old yggy without this setup and very very very close to equal to the yggy with this USB filtering system setup behind it.  I'm pretty sure in a blind test I would not be able to tell the difference.  Just goes to show that ultra-clean clocked power means more than the dac IMHO.   Needless to say, I sold my yggy.


----------



## Superdad

rsbrsvp said:


> It's funny.  My dac is worth about $200 and with this usb filtering setup behind it (worth about $700) it sounds substantially superior to my old yggy without this setup and very very very close to equal to the yggy with this USB filtering system setup behind it.  I'm pretty sure in a blind test I would not be able to tell the difference.  Just goes to show that ultra-clean clocked power means more than the dac IMHO.   Needless to say, I sold my yggy.


 
  







  
 Wow.  Fascinating to hear that.  And quite consistent both with what we hear here and what our clients (and beta testers of our new ISO REGEN) tell us.   But there are so many people who would and do deny such sentiments as heresy.  And a manufacturer of devices that aim to improve galvanic isolation (our UltraCap LPS-1 being a recent significant example), if we put forth such a claim we would be drawn and quartered.  But I have heard many inexpensive DACs transformed to punch way above their price points--after proper attention is paid to signal integrity, power supply, and isolation.
  
 Of course a great DAC--with excellent clocking, its own internal isolation, good topology, and superior analog output stage--should still carry the day.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Have a great weekend,
 --Alex C.


----------



## 514077

superdad said:


> rsbrsvp said:
> 
> 
> > First- my voltage booster has NO switching regulators and is dead silent.
> ...


 
 Thanks for that clarification.  I misunderstood about the power supply options available.  $399.00 sounds much better.


----------



## robi20064

superdad said:


> Wow.  Fascinating to hear that.  And quite consistent both with what we hear here and what our clients (and beta testers of our new ISO REGEN) tell us.   But there are so many people who would and do deny such sentiments as heresy.  And a manufacturer of devices that aim to improve galvanic isolation (our UltraCap LPS-1 being a recent significant example), if we put forth such a claim we would be drawn and quartered.  But I have heard many inexpensive DACs transformed to punch way above their price points--after proper attention is paid to signal integrity, power supply, and isolation.
> 
> Of course a great DAC--with excellent clocking, its own internal isolation, good topology, and superior analog output stage--should still carry the day.
> 
> ...


 

 Alex,
  
 I know you might not be able to answer this yet - for one of the known reasons - but is there a chance the new ISO REGEN is going to have an I2S output? I assume the input is USB only as it's designed for that.


----------



## mwhals

Superdad

Wow, I just recently bought a regen and now there is a newer version in the works??? This always seems to happen to me.


----------



## Superdad

robi20064 said:


> Alex,
> 
> I know you might not be able to answer this yet - for one of the known reasons - but is there a chance the new ISO REGEN is going to have an I2S output? I assume the input is USB only as it's designed for that.


 

 Oh gosh no.  Doing a full blown digital-to-digital converter (i.e. USB>I2S or S/PDIF) is an entirely other beast.
  
 Not that John and I have not considered such many times (he could do a really great one), but I don't want to support an internal USB>I2S converter board for hobbyists (ala Amenero, WaveIO, JLSounds, etc.).  And even I2S as an external interface is compromised in a similar (but no where near as bad) way that S/PDIF is.  Having the source (DDC) be the master clock (okay with S/PDIF it gets asynchronously rechecked after those lovely S/PDIF receivers) is not ideal.  I really feel that all audio clocking belongs inside the DAC.  And coming from a computer that mostly leaves USB>I2S or Ethernet>I2S for the input stage of a DAC.
  
 At least for now.   We have been doing some advance research and prototyping on an entirely new type of interface--that keeps the master clocking in the right place and slaves the source--and it breaks the mold in a bunch of other ways.  But getting that adopted by others won't be easy, and the first devices we may use it in are about 18 months away.
  
 Cheers,
  
 --Alex C.


----------



## Audio Addict

superdad said:


> Oh gosh no.  Doing a full blown digital-to-digital converter (i.e. USB>I2S or S/PDIF) is an entirely other beast.
> 
> Not that John and I have not considered such many times (he could do a really great one), but I don't want to support an internal USB>I2S converter board for hobbyists (ala Amenero, WaveIO, JLSounds, etc.).  And even I2S as an external interface is compromised in a similar (but no where near as bad) way that S/PDIF is.  Having the source (DDC) be the master clock (okay with S/PDIF it gets asynchronously rechecked after those lovely S/PDIF receivers) is not ideal.  I really feel that all audio clocking belongs inside the DAC.  And coming from a computer that mostly leaves USB>I2S or Ethernet>I2S for the input stage of a DAC.
> 
> ...




18 months is nothing when you have been waiting years from some manufacturers


----------



## Chikolad

Got a reminder today about how much of an improvement the REGEN can have on a system.
  
 I've been using a Chord Mojo at work with a Lenovo laptop and Audeze EL-8s and that setup just sounds great. Very very detailed and spacious.
 At home though, connected to my PC and feeding an Audeze LCD-3 I just wasn't getting a good experience. I was sure it was all about the Mojo not being able to fully drive the LCD-3s.
  
 I read that the Mojo can be sensitive to USB noise, so I decided to take the REGEN out of my other DAC and connect it to the Mojo. Instant improvement! Suddenly the sound was tighter, more holographic and 3D with a blacker background.
 Apparently the USB port on my PC is a lot noisier than the one on my work laptop, and the Mojo is indeed sensitive to it.
  
 Nice to be reminded!


----------



## John2e

Are the benefits from this product derived from computer audio only ? Can I expect similar results from my Lampizator Server?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Superdad

john2e said:


> Are the benefits from this product derived from computer audio only ? Can I expect similar results from my Lampizator Server?


 
  
 Well the Lampizator Server is a computer, so yes, the USB REGEN--placed close to your DAC--will improve signal integrity and impedance match, the same way as it does for DAC connections from more typical computers.


----------



## John2e

Thanks Superdad
  
 I will get this and the power supply thingy


----------



## Superdad

john2e said:


> Thanks Superdad
> 
> I will get this and the power supply thingy


 

 That's great, thanks!  And full refund (within 30 days, less postage) if you anything less than thrilled with the performance in your music system.
  
 Have a great weekend,
  
 --Alex C.


----------



## Neo Zuko

superdad said:


> That's great, thanks!  And full refund (within 30 days, less postage) if you anything less than thrilled with the performance in your music system.
> 
> Have a great weekend,
> 
> --Alex C.




I want to buy the upcoming ISO Regen for Galvanic isolation for my upcoming Hugo 2 purchase. I'm getting that some want to use the LPS-1 to power the ISO Regen product?? Why do I need a $400 LPS-1 power supply exactly? Does the ISO Regen not Galvanicly isolate by itself? I guess I don't understand but I just want to avoid spending $400 for something I may not need or just don't understand. I want to plug in my Hugo 2, plug in my laptop, and feed a plugged in power amp. I've read that Galvanic Isolation of the USB port is important. Beyond that I really have no idea what that is or why that is. Reading is getting me nowhere and it's all rather technical. I think I just need someone to break it down for me. If the LPS-1 is required to make the ISO Regen work right and galvanicly isolate, ok I'll bite, but otherwise I'm not into high priced power supply equipment at this time budget wise. I just want to properly galvanic isolate the Hugo 2 (as that is something it clearly lacks vs nicer at home DACs) and get the USB connection working at its reasonably priced best.


----------



## manpowre

neo zuko said:


> I want to buy the upcoming ISO Regen for Galvanic isolation for my upcoming Hugo 2 purchase. I'm getting that some want to use the LPS-1 to power the ISO Regen product?? Why do I need a $400 LPS-1 power supply exactly? Does the ISO Regen not Galvanicly isolate by itself? I guess I don't understand but I just want to avoid spending $400 for something I may not need or just don't understand. I want to plug in my Hugo 2, plug in my laptop, and feed a plugged in power amp. I've read that Galvanic Isolation of the USB port is important. Beyond that I really have no idea what that is or why that is. Reading is getting me nowhere and it's all rather technical. I think I just need someone to break it down for me. If the LPS-1 is required to make the ISO Regen work right and galvanicly isolate, ok I'll bite, but otherwise I'm not into high priced power supply equipment at this time budget wise. I just want to properly galvanic isolate the Hugo 2 (as that is something it clearly lacks vs nicer at home DACs) and get the USB connection working at its reasonably priced best.


 
  
 The Regen module needs power on the "clean" side or DAC side to work. Therefore a Power Supply is needed. Once you plug in a power supply, the same issue goes with noise towards the DAC on the 5vbus. This is where LPS-1 comes in, it feeds the "clean" side of the Regen module with ultra capacitor banks that is cut off from the AC power entirely (one ultra capacitor bank charging while the other one in use).
  
 The funny thing is, after I digged into this, that on the DAC a typically USB chip implementation sits too, to recieve the USB data, and for most DAC's there is no isolation after the usb chip towards the DAC chip itself. This is why I decided to go with USB to AES converter instead, and that improved my system from USB with Intona. Thing is, all the data is there in form of digital signals on analogue waveforms, its just to cut the dac off from the switch mode/"noisy" PC/MAC usb and retime the packets being sent.


----------



## Superdad

neo zuko said:


> I want to buy the upcoming ISO Regen for Galvanic isolation for my upcoming Hugo 2 purchase. I'm getting that some want to use the LPS-1 to power the ISO Regen product?? Why do I need a $400 LPS-1 power supply exactly? Does the ISO Regen not Galvanicly isolate by itself? I guess I don't understand but I just want to avoid spending $400 for something I may not need or just don't understand. I want to plug in my Hugo 2, plug in my laptop, and feed a plugged in power amp. I've read that Galvanic Isolation of the USB port is important. Beyond that I really have no idea what that is or why that is. Reading is getting me nowhere and it's all rather technical. I think I just need someone to break it down for me. If the LPS-1 is required to make the ISO Regen work right and galvanicly isolate, ok I'll bite, but otherwise I'm not into high priced power supply equipment at this time budget wise. I just want to properly galvanic isolate the Hugo 2 (as that is something it clearly lacks vs nicer at home DACs) and get the USB connection working at its reasonably priced best.


 

 Hi:
  
 The short is that no, *the ISO REGEN will not require our UltraCap LPS-1 in order to fulfill its promise of full galvanic isolation of your DAC from your computer.*   But the ISO REGEN--as well as the original USB REGEN, W4S Recovery, microRendu, sMS-200, and lots of DACs--does sound a lot better with the LPS-1 as it blocks ubiquitous leakage currents.
  
 The longer answer is more complicated because it involves understanding what galvanic isolation really means, and also what AC leakage current loops are.  I am really tied up with other things today, so I'll just copy/paste an explanation that my partner John Swenson gave last week over at CA.:
  
Hi All,
We should stop using the term "galvanic isolation" for what the LPS-1 does and what the ISO REGEN does.
 
Galvanic isolation means a path has very high resistance at DC, that is all it means, high resistance at DC.
 
The problem with using this term is that almost ALL power supplies have galvanic isolation, they have a very high resistance from the AC line (hot neutral) to the DC output. Even the SMPS have galvanic isolation. It is a bit more variable when you include the path from safety ground to DC output negative, some supplies have a high resistance and some very low.
 
But what we are talking about with the LPS-1 is absence of leakage current which is a low frequency AC signal from the mains to the DC output of a supply. "galvanic isolation" does NOT guarantee this! For example most SMPS have galvanic isolation but have a fairly high leakage current. 
 
A lot of the discussion and confusion about some of the devices and supplies out there is due to confusion about this term. So lets start trying to use it properly to hopefully prevent some of the confusion.
 
Here is the cheat sheet:
 
Almost all PS have galvanic isolation from hot/neutral to DC output.
Some PS have galvanic isolation from safety ground to DC output.
NONE have zero leakage current. (leakage current comes from hot/neutral, it has nothing to do with safety ground)
 
LPS-1 is galvanically isolated but it also blocks leakage current. 
 
Devices such as Intona and ISO REGEN block leakage currents from computer PS getting into DAC.
 
The downstream side of the ISO REGEN is powered from an external supply, if this is a "normal" PS this will create an additional leakage loop through the DAC. The ISO REGEN blocks the loop from the computer but adds a new one from the the supply that powers it. (it will likely be a much weaker loop than the one from the computer). IF the ISO REGEN is powered from an LPS-1, which has no leakage current, there is NO new loop added. The computer PS leakage is blocked and the ISO REGEN supply PS is blocked. 
 
The Intona uses an internal isolated switching DC/DC converter which powers its downstream side with power that is both galvanically isolated and blocks leakage currents, BUT is electrically noisy. The ISO REGEN uses an external supply which can be vastly cleaner and if the LPS-1 is used , also blocks leakage loops. 
 
This whole subject about dealing with leakage loops has not been popularized until very recently, so there is no commonly recognized term for blocking it like there is for blocking DC (i.e. galvanic isolation) so I don't have a nice simple term for this. But please don't use "galvanic isolation" when you mean it blocks leakage loops. That will just completely confuse things.
 
John S.


----------



## Neo Zuko

superdad said:


> Hi:
> 
> The short is that no, *the ISO REGEN will not require our UltraCap LPS-1 in order to fulfill its promise of full galvanic isolation of your DAC from your computer.*   But the ISO REGEN--as well as the original USB REGEN, W4S Recovery, microRendu, sMS-200, and lots of DACs--does sound a lot better with the LPS-1 as it blocks ubiquitous leakage currents.
> 
> ...




Thanks. Just the info I need. I'll defiantly look into the power stuff much later then. I understand it's importance, I do, but I need to get the major purchases done first. Which is going to take me years to finish honestly, I'm aiming high for the completed system. And I have a solid upgrade path lined up to enjoy stuff in the meantime. I do want that ISO Regen asap for my Mojo or Hugo 2 though.


----------



## mwhals

What is the difference between the Regen I bought earlier this year and the newest Regen?


----------



## Superdad

mwhals said:


> What is the difference between the Regen I bought earlier this year and the newest Regen?


 

 My apologies.  The ISO REGEN has not actually received an official announcement with all the details, but there are some of the details in a thread at CA:
 https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31013-iso-regen/
  
 I will do an official announcement--in a new thread over there--with all the details in a week or two.  Basically the ISO REGEN is a highly evolved USB REGEN.  It uses a *Crystek CCHD-575 clock, selected USB3.0 hub chip with the best signal integrity John has ever measured, and five of the world's ultra-lowest noise packaged linear regulators--the LT3042.  And the icing on the cake is full galvanic isolation using the **expensive Silanna ICE08USB chip.*
  
 We are waiting for final PCB fabrication quotation and delivery date from our board house now.  Then the official rollout (with price, date, etc.) will begin.  There will be a loyalty rebate related to prior USB REGEN buyers and the ISO REGEN and UltraCap LPS-1.
  
 Head-Fi management gets mad at me for discussing our products (though they refuse to reply to my repeated requests for information about sponsorship and advertising), so sadly this won't be the place where rollout details get posted.
  
 Thanks for understanding.
  
 --Alex C.


----------



## mwhals

Will you take an email list for letting us know?


----------



## Superdad

mwhals said:


> Will you take an email list for letting us know?


 

 Sure.  There is a Newsletter signup field at the bottom-right of our web site home page (and anyone who has ever bought something from us is already on the list with whatever e-mail address they used at the time).
  
 I only use the mail list for product announcements, so nobody will get more than one or two e-mail from us per year.  And the list stays private!
  
 Thanks,
 --Alex C.


----------



## mwhals

superdad said:


> Sure.  There is a Newsletter signup field at the bottom-right of our web site home page (and anyone who has ever bought something from us is already on the list with whatever e-mail address they used at the time).
> 
> I only use the mail list for product announcements, so nobody will get more than one or two e-mail from us per year.  And the list stays private!
> 
> ...




Thanks!


----------



## zilch0md

mwhals said:


> What is the difference between the Regen I bought earlier this year and the newest Regen?


 
  
 Read Superdad's most recent post, above, paying attention to John Swenson's references to the ISO Regen. 
  
 Hint: The "ISO" moniker distinguishes its ability to block leakage currents coming from the PC, which your Regen (and my Regen) cannot do.  
  
 Note: I don't feel any urgency to replace my Regen with an ISO Regen, but I've not compared them, either.  Keep in mind, that if you're going to tackle blocking leakage currents, you'll have to do so with the PS that feeds the ISO Regen _in addition to_ blocking the leakage currents that come from the PC.  (Read Superdad's most recent post, above.)


----------



## rsbrsvp

Will the iso-regen be available in the next month???


----------



## Superdad

rsbrsvp said:


> Will the iso-regen be available in the next month???




Yes. Boards and cases are in production now. We'll be making price and shipping date announcements in the next 10 days. And shipments of the first 250 units will take place by May 16th.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Many Audiophiles say a mac will never reach the sonic level of a network player because correcting the noise and jitter errors after the information leaves the computer is not the same as having the information leave the computer correctly from the start.  
  
 Is this correct?  If so- not matter how good these correction devices get- including galvanic isolation, no leakage, and ultra low jitter- they are still correcting problems after the fact.
  
 I would appreciate some insight on if this is correct or not.
  
 I actually thought to say that the most important place for the digital information to be pure is right before entering the DAC which is why I use a USB adaptor (not a USB cable) which is about one inch long between my RUR and my DAC which seriously outperforms any USB cable I have ever tried.  I believe this is because any USB cable corrupts the information- therefore I just got rid of the cable.
  
 If this is correct however- than a network player with ultra low jitter and noise will not help much more than a RUR or Regen unless it is also connected to a DAC with a USB adaptor instead of a cable.


----------



## Neo Zuko

rsbrsvp said:


> Many Audiophiles say a mac will never reach the sonic level of a network player because correcting the noise and jitter errors after the information leaves the computer is not the same as having the information leave the computer correctly from the start.
> 
> Is this correct?  If so- not matter how good these correction devices get- including galvanic isolation, no leakage, and ultra low jitter- they are still correcting problems after the fact.
> 
> ...




I suppose an Aurender is nice, but then I still need a PC USB connection in addition to watch any video. So for me it's not an all in one solution just an addition.


----------



## Krutsch

rsbrsvp said:


> Many Audiophiles say a mac will never reach the sonic level of a network player because correcting the noise and jitter errors after the information leaves the computer is not the same as having the information leave the computer correctly from the start.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's a long discussion and the folks over at computer audiophile are better able to provide all of the audiophile nervosa you need to explore this topic.
  
 Where I have landed is to use my computer (MacBook Pro) to: manage my library, rip/download music, stream from services like Tidal and Spotify and apply digital filtering and processing. Then, when you are all finished, you have PCM data to ship to your DAC for playback.
  
*While in the computer's domain, processing your digital files, you can ignore all of the misinformation about the data not "being the same" or "being correct"*.
  
 The trick is to then ship your processed PCM via Ethernet. Ethernet is high speed, full duplex, asynchronous and error detecting/correcting by design and is 100% accurate in this regard. The *Ethernet adapters have galvanic isolation built-in because Ethernet was designed to work in densely packed environments* (e.g. switches, servers, heavily populated racks) and isolating electrical noise is an important part to mitigating errors, which cause resends of data and all the problems that come with that.
  
 On the receiving end, use a low-power streamer that is connected to Ethernet on one end and has a USB out on the other. You can go the cheap route and buy something like a Cubox-i or a more sophisticated route and buy a microRendu (you can Google these). Or you can spend big dollars and go with one of the Aurender, AURALiC or Bryston options.
  
*The perfectly correct, Ethernet received data is now isolated from your computer and all of its "noise" and it's pre-processed PCM data can be sent to your DAC with little/no processing required by the streamer.*
  
 I've played around with just about everything, but separating the CPU intensive tasks from the DAC with Ethernet has produced the best sound I've heard in my system.
  
 You can go crazy worrying about leakage current, optically isolating the last network segment and adding expensive power supplies to the devices on the last segment... the importance of which is for you to decide and, as always, YMMV.


----------



## rsbrsvp

krutsch said:


> That's a long discussion and the folks over at computer audiophile are better able to provide all of the audiophile nervosa you need to explore this topic.
> 
> Where I have landed is to use my computer (MacBook Pro) to: manage my library, rip/download music, stream from services like Tidal and Spotify and apply digital filtering and processing. Then, when you are all finished, you have PCM data to ship to your DAC for playback.
> 
> ...


 

 Can you please explain how I get my data from my MAC to the microrendu?  Is it by ethernet output?  Then the streamer by USB would send the information to the dac?


----------



## Krutsch

rsbrsvp said:


> Can you please explain how I get my data from my MAC to the microrendu? * Is it by ethernet output?*  Then the *streamer by USB would send the information to the dac*?


 
  
 Yes. You will need software on your Mac to send to the streamer. Examples are Roon, JRiver, MinimServer ... there are others.
  
 This is a topic that will require you to do some reading and researching, but that's the fun part.


----------



## rsbrsvp

From my search it seems that all these streamers sound better with a better external Power supply.  Therefore- the ethernet does not seem immune to noise- just like usb.  I don’t get it.  Why not just use a mac direct by usb to a iso regen powered by a LPS-1 to the dac?  Is using a streamer better than that?


----------



## Joong

Hi guys,
 Does REGEN have different function of Singxer or Gustard U12?
 If I have already a Singxer, or U12, then it is still useful?


----------



## Krutsch

rsbrsvp said:


> From my search it seems that all these streamers sound better with a better external Power supply.  Therefore- the ethernet does not seem immune to noise- just like usb.  I don’t get it.  Why not just use a mac direct by usb to a iso regen powered by a LPS-1 to the dac?  Is using a streamer better than that?


 

 Ethernet is not just like USB, but I've already given you a lengthy opinion.
  
 I recommend ComputerAudiophile dot com as your next stop. Lots to read there on this topic.


----------



## Krutsch

joong said:


> Hi guys,
> *Does REGEN have different function of Singxer or Gustard U12?*
> If I have already a Singxer, or U12, *then it is still useful?*


 
  
 Yes and yes. These devices are USB-to-SPDIF converters. The REGEN is USB-to-USB, so to speak.
  
 You may find that a REGEN is redundant with these converters but, personally speaking, I find benefit in placing a REGEN in front of my my own converter (see my signature).
  
 As always, YMMV.


----------



## Joong

Thanks, it is now clear.
 I am now torn apart in choosing between iPurifier2 and REGEN.
 What is your recommendation?


----------



## Krutsch

joong said:


> Thanks, it is now clear.
> I am now torn apart in *choosing between iPurifier2 and REGEN*.
> What is your recommendation?


 
  
 I have both of them, along with an iUSB 3.0 Nano. The REGEN and iUSB 3.0 Nano have a noticeable impact on my DACs.
  
 I use the Nano at work with a Sony PHA-3 and the difference is immediately evident.
  
 I use the REGEN with a Welborne Labs 6v linear PSU (high quality) with my home setup in front of a a Bel Canto REFLink using Curious USB cables and the difference is more subtle, but it's there.
  
 The iPurifier 2, in my experience, does nothing I can hear with either setup. YMMV.


----------



## winders

Look what I see on the UpTone Audio web site:
  


 There is just this one photo and no text yet....


----------



## Superdad

winders said:


> Look what I see on the UpTone Audio web site:
> 
> There is just this one photo and no text yet....




Yep, just a teaser to see if anyone noticed. You win the prize. 
Web page is all written. Today I finish a few details for the ordering like weights and codes for export of the variation options, etc. 

Still right on track for Tuesday 9:00 a.m. (California time) launch. Everyone who is on our mailing list (which means anyone who ever bought an Uptone product directly form us or who entered their e-mail in the Newsletter box on our home page) will receive a notice sometime on Monday.


----------



## 514077

superdad said:


> winders said:
> 
> 
> > Look what I see on the UpTone Audio web site:
> ...


 
 Can't see the pic, but I assume it's the long-awaited isoRegen?  Great!


----------



## ajreynol

Hmm. Interesting product. I think I'll keep an eye on this thread.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Finally, now I can add it to my amazon wish list.


----------



## Topspin70

I'm also interested to know more about this, albeit it's not for sale until after the first run of ISO.
  
 https://uptoneaudio.com/products/uspcb-a-b-adapter
  
 Is this something I could stick to the end of a microRendu?


----------



## Superdad

topspin70 said:


> I'm also interested to know more about this, albeit it's not for sale until after the first run of ISO.
> 
> https://uptoneaudio.com/products/uspcb-a-b-adapter
> 
> Is this something I could stick to the end of a microRendu?


 

 Absolutely!
 Better photos--including showing the version with the "B" plug rotated 90-degees--should be up later this week as soon at the first 750 production boards arrive.  The 90-dgree-rotation version is something that a lot of microRendu (and REGEN) users request as it allows for vertical orientation of the device so that room is left on either side with DACs that have other jacks next to the USB input.


----------



## Topspin70

superdad said:


> Absolutely!
> Better photos--including showing the version with the "B" plug rotated 90-degees--should be up later this week as soon at the first 750 production boards arrive.  The 90-dgree-rotation version is something that a lot of microRendu (and REGEN) users request as it allows for vertical orientation of the device so that room is left on either side with DACs that have other jacks next to the USB input.


 

 Sounds perfect. Will stay tuned for more info.


----------



## mwhals

Having ordered the Regen on January 31, 2017, which is less then three months ago, I can not justify another full price outlay of cash for the updated version. Thanks for the email though.


----------



## canali

i have the MR and lps 1...unsure if i need the iso regen in the chain...it will be interesting
to hear from others  if the iso regen makes any difference in SQ... or is just redundant.
just using a simple chain: laptop (as nas) with mr, lps, ifi micro idsd, roon labs and tidal hifi


----------



## dmbr

I'm a Regen owner who can't afford the ISO right now.

Two things I'm a little sore about:

1. No discount on the ISO.

2. Can't buy the new solid connector...I know upgrading the cable between the Regen and my DAC really improved the sound, so imagine this connector would my chain's SQ for a reasonable $30.

Any chance you guys at Uptone could throw us old Regen owners a bone and make some of these available to us for purchase? If not, eta on general availibility, please?


----------



## guzmanatm (Jul 10, 2017)

dmbr said:


> I'm a Regen owner who can't afford the ISO right now.
> 
> Two things I'm a little sore about:
> 
> ...



There is a discount on the ISO Regen-- but only if you've previously purchased both the USB Regen and the LPS-1 power supply.

I believe the USPCB hard adapter will soon be made available to purchase from UpTone. Since I bought the awesome new ISO Regen I already have the USPCB adapter . . . But unfortunately the USPCB isn't directly compatible with the unusual female USB type-A input on my iFi micro iDSD.


----------



## TheAttorney

guzmanatm said:


> . But unfortunately the USPCB isn't directly compatible with the unusual female USB type-A input on my iFi micro iDSD.



True, but iFi did supply a hard adapter with their iDSD, enabling any normal USB cable to be connected. A while back when I compared, I much preferred the iFI adapter + posh audiophile USB cable to their stock blue USB cable. So I'd expect the iFi Adapter + USPCB to also show a significant improvement over the stock blue cable. Worth a try.


----------



## Hi Rez

dmbr said:


> I'm a Regen owner who can't afford the ISO right now.
> 
> 2. Can't buy the new solid connector...I know upgrading the cable between the Regen and my DAC really improved the sound, so imagine this connector would my chain's SQ for a reasonable $30.



The USPCB adapter still isn't available to order from the UpTone website, but you can now get it by following Alex's instructions in this post from CA:  https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...-up-photos-etc/?do=findComment&comment=691400


----------



## bequietjk (Jan 15, 2019)

Bump.

Anyone have any experience with both the original REGEN vs ISO REGEN?  Both sound like promising investments and well worth it.  Exciting to be honest.

My Khadas Tone Board is coming in soon and I'm wondering if connecting a REGEN in between my PC and it would be something grand.


----------



## Hi Rez

bequietjk said:


> Bump.
> 
> Anyone have any experience with both the original REGEN vs ISO REGEN?  Both sound like promising investments and well worth it.  Exciting to be honest.
> 
> My Khadas Tone Board is coming in soon and I'm wondering if connecting a REGEN in between my PC and it would be something grand.



I had the original Regen, and have since upgraded to the ISO Regen.  I currently use the LPS 1.2 power supply with the ISO Regen.  In my opinion, the ISO Regen / LPS 1.2 combo was noticeably better than the ISO Regen / included power supply, which was better than the original Regen / included power supply.  This was in my system.

Depending on how noisy your PC is, and the rest of your system, they likely would improve things.  Just the cleaner USB power provided by the Regens would likely make a noticeable difference.  "Grand?"  Only you could decide that one.

The Khadas Tone Board is what, $100?  I have no doubt the ISO Regen / LPS 1.2 bundle would make quite noticeable improvement, but at 7 times the cost of the Tone Board?  I would have a similar cost concern regarding just the ISO Regen in your system.  Some folks would think it a bit silly to spend multiples of your DAC cost on a USB cleaning device.  Others wouldn't bat an eye at spending that much.

If you wanted to try one of Uptone's products, and ended up not liking it, you would only be out shipping costs, as I believe they have a pretty liberal return policy.  You might want to confirm Uptone's return policy if you are thinking about buying, and you think you might want the option to return your purchase.


----------



## Left Channel

bequietjk said:


> Bump.
> 
> Anyone have any experience with both the original REGEN vs ISO REGEN?  Both sound like promising investments and well worth it.  Exciting to be honest.
> 
> My Khadas Tone Board is coming in soon and I'm wondering if connecting a REGEN in between my PC and it would be something grand.



I would first wait and listen to the Khadas. Some quick Googling tells me it was designed specifically for audiophiles, with low jitter and other benefits, and that you'd need a USB C adapter because the UpTone connector board is designed for larger systems. After you have listened for awhile, you may want to borrow or purchase more inexpensive options before procuring something that costs so much more than the Khadas itself.

Many of us are struggling with general systems that deliver jitter and noise via USB, and in my case my laptop boards were installed in a way that injected up all sorts of unpleasantness into the audio circuit. At minimum I needed an external DAC for my desktop system, then got a small further improvement by adding a USB REGEN to that desktop system. 

When I later set up a fanless mini PC in my media room as part of a much more expensive configuration, I as a matter of course added an ISO REGEN where it is an expected relatively inexpensive addition. But because it is on a different power supply and in a completely different system, I can't offer a useful comparison between the two generations of UpTone products.


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## MadHatterRyu

guys I had an ESD blowout.. Need your help  

Going to attempt fixing this.. 

If anyone has a multimeter, can you check for the values of R6 and R8? R2 seems intact.. And any idea what C10 should be?
The obviously blown out part is a USB chip whose replacement I found.. USB SMSC2412 is the part.


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## Left Channel

@Superdad can you help? 



MadHatterRyu said:


> guys I had an ESD blowout.. Need your help
> 
> Going to attempt fixing this..
> 
> ...


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## Starfox

I could buy a used regen (not the ISO one but the old regular USB) for 90€. Is it still good or outdated?


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## Hi Rez

Starfox said:


> I could buy a used regen (not the ISO one but the old regular USB) for 90€. Is it still good or outdated?


The standard regen is a bit outdated - and used ones were selling for not much more than that not too long after the ISO regen came out.  The ISO regen was noticeably better than the standard regen.

If it is used with the standard power supply that came with it, it's effect is fairly subtle.  Better power improved it somewhat.  If you just have the itch to try it, and you can get it for a good price, you might see a benefit with it - but don't expect miracles.  

BTW - I gave one of mine away not too long ago.


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## Starfox

Hi Rez said:


> The standard regen is a bit outdated - and used ones were selling for not much more than that not too long after the ISO regen came out.  The ISO regen was noticeably better than the standard regen.
> 
> If it is used with the standard power supply that came with it, it's effect is fairly subtle.  Better power improved it somewhat.  If you just have the itch to try it, and you can get it for a good price, you might see a benefit with it - but don't expect miracles.
> 
> BTW - I gave one of mine away not too long ago.


Thank you for the detailed answer.
May I push for a last question? Using a Schiit Eitr or a Topping D10 (connected to my Xduoo XA10). Would it improve the sound? Which would be best? I saw an Eitr for 120€ and D10s are cheap.


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## Hi Rez

Starfox said:


> Thank you for the detailed answer.
> May I push for a last question? Using a Schiit Eitr or a Topping D10 (connected to my Xduoo XA10). Would it improve the sound? Which would be best? I saw an Eitr for 120€ and D10s are cheap.


I don't have experience with either one of those.  The Eitr had positive praise - this from listeners whose opinions I respected.  It looks like the D10 measures similarly to the Eitr - https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-of-schiit-eitr-usb-to-s-pdif-bridge.3753/

The Eitr doesn't seem unreasonable at that price.  And as you say, the D10s are cheap.  

If you have something you are trying to "fix", these products won't do that.  But if you ok spending for them, you might see some improvements - reduced noise, darker background.  I found voices to be more natural when they were added to mine.  FYI - I have ISO Regens in all my systems.


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## TheAttorney

Starfox said:


> I could buy a used regen (not the ISO one but the old regular USB) for 90€. Is it still good or outdated?


I have an ISO Regen that I could sell for not much more than that. Also an ultracap LPs-1 power supply and a MicroRendu 1.4.
I no longer use USB and have a completely different system, so they've been sitting in my spares box for a while, but I haven't got round to putting them up for sale.

PM me if interested.

I never tried the original regen, but all the reviews at time were saying that the ISO was a significant improvement. It certainly worked well in my previous laptop W10 and NUC based systems - and improved even top quality USB cables.


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## Starfox

I'm expecting to receive a Fiio K9 amp DA today. I don't think it can be further improved (or if I could hear the difference) and budget is getting tight so...
But I'll definately keep it in mind for the ISO regen.


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