# PS Audio Noise Harvester



## Patrick82

Noise Harvester made bass so heavy I will puke soon. I don't like it. Synergy is all messed up, I worked so hard to get it good and now it's all gone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It reminds me of an extra step of vibration isolation (link), which I eventually compensated for elsewhere in my system.

 I didn't hear anything wrong with my system for a month, I searched very hard. But after I plugged in a couple Harvesters it sounded completely messed up. At least now I know they are working properly.


*First impressions:* More open and clean. More body. Everything sounds different. Detail is at least as good, but it's heavier. Vocals are more realistic, everything is smoother.

 Everything is way too heavy, it makes me sick!! I just want to turn off music, horrible.


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## philodox

You hooked a powered LED up to your wall and the bass is making you puke? Interesting...


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## Tachikoma

I wonder, have you tried removing _all_ of your tweaks, and check if your impressions now matched your initial impressions?


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## digitalmind

Quote:


 Dreamed up by Paul McGowan and designed and engineered by our resident Hungarian genius, Laszlo Juhasz after two years of hard work, the Noise Harvester is without question revolutionary. 
 

It takes a genius and two years to calculate an RC filter and add a LED?

 I'm sure there's more to the PS Audio Noise Harvester than that but I can't see how it'd take anyone (even someone with no electronics knowledge) that long to design a noise filter.


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## Jahn

regardless if the harvester is placebo or not, i think Patrick's reaction to it is unique. who the heck ever has a negative placebo? usually it's either positive due to heightened expectations, or it just doesn't work. it's like saying the Clever Little Clock collapsed the soundstage and pushed the horn section too forward in the presentation


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## Jeff Wong

I've used them, but, am reluctant to put them back in my system. Because I have a dedicated line and already employ a variety of power conditioning, my electrical line is very quiet (I could not get the Noise Harvesters to light in my main room.) I could get them to light up if I plugged them into a bathroom outlet that has a fan on the circuit, so, I know the units actually light up. The probably is, in my main system, using the Noise Harvesters would occasionally shut down my system! I suspect what was happening is that a charge kept getting stored up because my line is already quiet, and ended up spiking, triggering protection circuitry in my Power Director. I suspect if my power line was noisy and the Harvester was always active, the charge wouldn't build up, and would not be an issue. They might be good if you have dirty AC, but, I'm not so sure if you've got clean juice.


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## Patrick82

I went to bed hoping it was all a dream but NO! After 4 mins 50 seconds I got a headache from the bass. Bass is emphasized and everything else is in the background, I need to focus more to hear them. I want bass to go away!

 At least now I know I don't need to buy more Harvesters, I had planned to cover all my walls with hundreds of them. I didn't expect one Harvester would do this much, it's like a power cord upgrade. I haven't plugged in the rest of my Harvesters yet, I have 4 of them (5th one I have dissected to death), I need to fix the heavy bass problem before trying them all. I will replace my P300 Power Plant with Premier after it arrives, that might work.


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## greenhorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After 4 mins 50 seconds I got a headache from the bass._

 

That's a fantastic one. I give up - for my sig.


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## Jahn

"I had planned to cover all my walls with hundreds of them."

 Why does EVERY post have to be so scary?


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## digitalmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I went to bed hoping it was all a dream but NO! After 4 mins 50 seconds I got a headache from the bass. Bass is emphasized and everything else is in the background, I need to focus more to hear them. I want bass to go away!

 At least now I know I don't need to buy more Harvesters, I had planned to cover all my walls with hundreds of them. I didn't expect one Harvester would do this much, it's like a power cord upgrade. I haven't plugged in the rest of my Harvesters yet, I have 4 of them (5th one I have dissected to death), I need to fix the heavy bass problem before trying them all. I will replace my P300 Power Plant with Premier after it arrives, that might work._

 

Since you have the 5th dead and open, would you mind taking pictures of what's in there? Curiosity is getting to me.


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## Patrick82

My 2nd Harvester was plugged into P300 Power Plant, I removed it and there was less bass.
 Then I removed the last Harvester from the wall and found something.

 I removed it from the wall, listened again after 30 seconds, it was still too heavy. Waited 26 seconds and tried again, it was less heavy. Waited 42 seconds, it sounded much thinner, it was close to "home". Waited 52 seconds, it was even thinner and there was sibilance too, bass was gone! Waited another 52 seconds and it didn't sound different.

*It took 2 and half minutes for the noise to build up after removing the Harvester.*

 I'm able to listen to my system again without headache. I'm not planning to put the Harvester back. With 2 Harvesters I can only listen to my system 5 minutes at a time. But without the Harvesters I can listen all day without fatigue!


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## Patrick82

Finally the nightmare is over. It's like a breath of fresh air.

 I didn't know my system was this colored. The slight edginess in my system gives the illusion of more transparency, I like it. With the Harvesters it didn't sound like real life, it was heavier than real life, it sounded kind of dull.


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## tourmaline

Conclusion, not everything works well in a system...


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digitalmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since you have the 5th dead and open, would you mind taking pictures of what's in there? Curiosity is getting to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There is black goo covering everything so it's hard to see. On the inside of the yellow boxes there is yellow goo.











 I'm too poor to buy better camera, both my digital cameras are broken from taking pics of my tweaks, I guess my soldering job was so poor that the camera died from shock. Here's some videos:

ftp://poollogics.is-a-geek.net:22163...r_close-up.avi 1 MB


ftp://poollogics.is-a-geek.net:22163...lean.Sweep.avi 19 MB

 In this video you see it blinking when doing 60 second Clean Sweep with P300 Power Plant.


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## Chinchy

Hey Patrick: 

 Send your noise harvesters to me... I'd like to experiment with them too.


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## chesebert

why isn't anyone outraged that PS audio is charging $100 for $5 in parts and maybe 20hrs of engineering assume the EE is not that good?


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## Voltron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jahn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why does EVERY post have to be so scary?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I removed it from the wall, listened again after 30 seconds, it was still too heavy. Waited 26 seconds and tried again, it was less heavy. Waited 42 seconds, it sounded much thinner, it was close to "home". Waited 52 seconds, it was even thinner and there was sibilance too, bass was gone! Waited another 52 seconds and it didn't sound different.

*It took 2 and half minutes for the noise to build up after removing the Harvester.*

 I'm able to listen to my system again without headache. I'm not planning to put the Harvester back. With 2 Harvesters I can only listen to my system 5 minutes at a time. But without the Harvesters I can listen all day without fatigue!_

 

I don't think I have posted in a Patrick82 "too extreme tweaking" thread before, but I just have to say that I was snickering after reading Jahn's post and then almost swallowed my tongue when I read the latest installment from the tweaker king. The time stamps killed me. Simply incredible.


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## Patrick82

I plugged the Harvester into another circuit where my projector and LCD is connected, my audio system wasn't affected.
 Harvester is blinking once a second when my LCD is turned on. When projector is turned on it blinks every 3-4 seconds. When both are off it blinks every 5 seconds.


*First impressions:* After I turned on projector I got a headache from the bright text, I couldn't read AVS forum anymore because of the yellow text. I was forced to read other forums for a couple hours. I thought it was all in my mind.

 Then I turned off projector and turned on my $200 Acer LCD screen. Wow it looks cleaner and more 3 dimensional, it's like I have upgraded to a new display! It's both blacker and whiter at the same time, everything jumps out more. The box where I'm writing right now looks deep. Everything looks more separate. 
 Colors look better. The black level still isn't acceptable for movies, but it's better than before.

 It reminds me of when I tried Ultimate Outlet + Nordost Valhalla. Anyone who considers buying Valhalla power cord for their LCD, buy Noise Harvester instead!


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## Chinchy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then I turned off projector and turned on my $200 Acer LCD screen. Wow it looks cleaner and more 3 dimensional, it's like I have upgraded to a new display! It's both blacker and whiter at the same time, everything jumps out more. The box where I'm writing right now looks deep. Everything looks more separate. 
 Colors look better. The black level still isn't acceptable for movies, but it's better than before._

 

Are the effects additive? As in, if you add multiple Noise Harvesters, does everything jump out more? I wonder if it's possible to obtain an almost 3d-like projection by adding 5-15 more noise harvesters?


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chinchy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are the effects additive? As in, if you add multiple Noise Harvesters, does everything jump out more? I wonder if it's possible to obtain an almost 3d-like projection by adding 5-15 more noise harvesters?_

 

They are additive for the audio system because it's less limited than video gear.

 I'm going to plug my display into Premier Power Plant when it arrives. Then I can see how good this display can become.


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## Patrick82

Instead of running away from bass like sissy girl I'm trying the Harvester for my audio system again. This time I only plugged in one Harvester instead of two, it gave half as much bass as both of them combined.

 I found that I'm able to listen to a few albums without problems for an hour. But when I listened to one of my favorite albums I got a headache after 1 minute and felt sick in stomach after 2 mins 14 seconds. Bass was too heavy and tight. It felt like something was coming up from my throat so I had to change to another album. The problem went away when I chose an album that had little bass.

 The improvement from Harvester is like a power cord 4+ times the size (more bass) but without the lack of detail. The improvement isn't as impressive as ERS Paper (link) or Valhalla interconnect modifications (link, link) which gave pure resolution without adding any weight. But the difference is more obvious since the Harvester makes everything too heavy. It boosts up the bass!



 The difference from Harvester is bigger than:
Stock vs xStream Statement power cord for computer. Statement gave me fatigue from bass, but lack of detail was more annoying.
Solid-tech vibration isolation, 3 vs 4 steps. Adding the extra step of isolation gave enough blackness and heaviness to make me sick.
MWave1 vs MWave4. MWave4 gave loads of pure resolution but also made it warmer, it doesn't bother me though. It took months to get used to the tight bass transients.

 I would compare Harvester with MWave4 (PS Audio MultiWave II) since it improves everything without adding any weaknesses. Harvester is like MWave4 except it also adds heaviness top to bottom, it also makes everything little tighter to keep the same detail.

I changed from MWave4 to *MWave1* and low-level bass transients were missing, it made it sound thinner, colder, brighter and there was more midrange. That explains why MWave4 is so warm, because there is more low-level information. 
 When I changed back to MWave4 the transients were back and I also noticed more depth in the soundstage. I'm in love with MWave4.

*Removed Harvester* from the wall and waited 4 minutes, it sounded like the heaviness was toned down. The low-level detail was still there except it sounded thinner and more consistent. I like this more.

Changed from MWave4 to *MWave1* and plugged the Harvester back in, waited 3 minutes. The increase in heaviness was huge but the lack of low-level detail was also more apparent.

 The difference when adding Harvester is 5 times bigger than the difference between MWave1 and MWave4.
 MWave4 without the Harvester sounds better to me than MWave1 with the Harvester. Having clean power isn't as important as I thought, it makes it sound heavier but it doesn't increase as much detail as power supply manipulation does.


 _______________________


 Only $100 for a Harvester to get a huge difference like this is crazy, especially since I'm already using Ultimate Outlet + P300 Power Plant. 
 I would like 20% the performance of the Harvester, a full 100% seems to be overkill for my system. I can't recommend anyone buying the 5 pack, 1 or 2 is enough if you already have a power conditioner.
 I will keep it plugged in and see if I get used to it, based on previous upgrades I know it's possible, it's very hard work though. I need to do warm-ups and use different music and stuff.


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## The Monkey

Really my favorite yet (see sig.).

 Now Patrick, you said that you were happy with your system despite all attempts to find something wrong. What made you decide to go for the Harvester in the first place? You knew the potential for crazy bass and yet you plunged in headlong. What gives? I think it's that you LIKE extreme bass and just won't admit it.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really my favorite yet (see sig.).

 Now Patrick, you said that you were happy with your system despite all attempts to find something wrong. What made you decide to go for the Harvester in the first place? You knew the potential for crazy bass and yet you plunged in headlong. What gives? I think it's that you LIKE extreme bass and just won't admit it._

 

I bought the Harvesters before I made my interconnect modifications which solved problems. I also have a Premier Power Plant coming soon, I'm afraid of more bass now, I will use it only for computer and LCD display.

 I didn't think I would get more bass from Harvester, I never saw anyone say it. I thought the background would just get a little blacker with more low-level detail, I guess not. Harvester removes too much noise, I like to eat a little AC noise for breakfast, Harvester eats away my food!


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it's that you LIKE extreme bass and just won't admit it._

 

If I really liked bass I could undo my power cord mods and boost up the bass. But too much bass is like torture. Maybe I like torture and won't admit it. I don't have anyone to swing a swip at me so I plug in my Harvester instead.


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## Jeff Wong

Patrick - If the difference is this significant (I did not find them to improve things much, if at all, in my system, which already employs a variety of power conditioning), I wonder if you may have some imbalances in your system that went unaddressed. After all, we're talking about the electricity before even getting to your components. You might want to plug in those Harvesters and figure out what else in your system might be creating excessive bass.


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## swt61

I've had better luck with this harvester.


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## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had better luck with this harvester. 



_

 

LOL, it might get you the same "BUZZ"


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jeff Wong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Patrick - If the difference is this significant (I did not find them to improve things much, if at all, in my system, which already employs a variety of power conditioning), I wonder if you may have some imbalances in your system that went unaddressed. After all, we're talking about the electricity before even getting to your components. You might want to plug in those Harvesters and figure out what else in your system might be creating excessive bass._

 

I modified the Valhalla power cord for my computer (link) and that took care of a little weight but loads of muddiness. I don't know what Nordost was thinking when they designed the cable. I guess they put intentional muddiness on the cable to hide brightness in crappy systems. If customer's ears start hurting from brightness he's going to return the cable... 

 Since the sound got thinner from the Valhalla mod I was able to plug a Harvester to my wall to boost up the bass. Then I plugged in a 2nd Harvester to my P300 and bass was doubled again. I'm only listening to my sissy bass albums and I'm surprised of the amount of low-level detail I'm hearing. A whole new world of detail has opened up. It's one of the biggest improvements I have ever heard.
 I'm hearing huge bass but it's distinct from the rest of the music, it doesn't bother me as much as before. I'm still getting headache from some albums though.


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## Patrick82

My fanless P300 Power Plant was burning hot with Harvester plugged into it, normally it's just a little warm. Harvester never blinks or buzzes unless I do the Clean Sweep. I removed it and bass got much thinner, after an hour P300 had cooled down. It seems like something weird happens with multiwave + Harvester. It sounded sort of like a combination of MWave4 and TubeWave.


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## Patrick82

With 1 Harvester and modified Valhalla the bass is still too heavy. 
 It was way too warm so I searched for a way to compensate. Then I saw my dusty Valkyrja headphone cable on the table, I could clearly see the dust from far away. I cleaned it with Optrix again and got more transparency and tightness, I'm hearing decay around bass transients again. It's little better now, there's still too much bass though.
 See my 1st and 2nd impressions from Optrix: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...&postcount=188

 I checked my system to see if there were any other problems, I saw that the rear left Feet of Silence under my amp had the rubber bands stretched more than the others. I added extra rubber bands to that one. 
 While I was putting the rubber on, my room got colder.
 I was surprised when I listened to music again, of course I'm hearing the usual "whiteness + fake blackness + lack of low-level detail" sound signature from the colder room, but this time I'm also hearing something else. I'm hearing a sound signature I haven't heard before, bass sounds very strong and there is better synergy. It seems like all four Feet need to be suspended the same depth. Or maybe the ambient temperature makes a bigger difference after I added the Harvester. Either way, it sounds better now. 

 There is still too much bass though. Maybe building a freezer for Valhalla cables will help. It is crazy how big difference one Harvester makes, I wonder how long I will keep tweaking until I get perfect synergy again. After I added Valhalla digital cable to my system it took months of tweaking to compensate for the warmth: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=191136


 I wonder if replacing the Feet with Stillpoints would be better. Maybe the bass from Feet is heavier than neutral.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr...&openflup&17&4
  Quote:


 The Feet of Silence made the most positive difference. The contrast with Stillpoints was instructive - using the Stillpoints the music lost its bloom, and sounded overdamped and constrained. The Feet of Silence let the music breathe mone freely.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems like all four Feet need to be suspended the same depth. Or maybe the ambient temperature makes a bigger difference after I added the Harvester. Either way, it sounds better now._

 

The room got little warmer and the bass signature got more apparent now, I can clearly hear it comes from the extra rubber bands for Feet of Silence. Bass sounds very strong unlike anything I have heard before. I'm hearing more bass transients in the background and they are heavier too, multiple sharp and heavy bass transients makes it sound strong. It reminds me of when I wrapped Valhalla power cords in ERS Paper, it changed the signature of the deep bass. But with the extra rubber bands it changed the mid-bass too.

 Yesterday I didn't want to keep listening to my favorite albums because something felt wrong. After today's tweaks I want to keep listening, even to the tracks I normally never listen to! The improvement was that big.

*The headache is finally gone!* I believe it didn't come from the heavy bass, it just came from the muddiness, Harvester increased the size of everything which made the muddiness apparent. The bass needs to have proper resolution, otherwise it is fatiguing. I like strong bass as long as it doesn't interfere with the rest of the music, but if it does interfere, then I want to remove all of the bass.

 After doing these 3 tweaks* to compensate for the heavy bass from Harvester, I'm hearing an improvement unlike anything I have heard before. Amps and sources are nothing compared to this, in my 1-10 scale they would receive 1 score because they don't improve anything, they just change the flavor. But when plugging the Harvester to the wall the improvements are real. Harvester doesn't add any weaknesses, it just shows problems in your system which forces you to find and fix them.

 *(Thinner Valhalla for computer, Optrix for headphone cable, extra rubber bands for Feet of Silence under amp) 

*Harvester improvement score:* [size=x-large]10 000 000[/size]


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## Patrick82

My upgrades

 1 = Noticeable improvement
 10 = Night and day

_July 2005_

 Valhalla power cord for Krell KAV-500i = 15
 High Current Ultimate Outlet between wall and Power Plants = 5
 QuickSilver on everything = 15?
 QuickSilver on fuses = 2
 MultiWave II+ for source = 5
 xStream Statement between wall and Power Plants = *60*
 44.1 kHz to 768 kHz = 5
 MultiWave II and II+ for amp = 20
 Solid-Tech isolation = *100*
 QuickSilver GOLD upgrade = 5
 Valhalla between wall and Power Plants + hardwired = *60*
 Hifi-Tuning Gold fuse = 1
 Nordost Solar Wind 1 conductor + remove PCB = *220*
 Nordost Valkyrja 1 conductor = 140 (*360* compared to Stefan AudioArt)
 PS Audio GCC-100 = *200?*
 Cary 303/300 as transport for DAC-1 = *500*
 Modded Valhalla power cord (2+2+1) for DAC1, and computer as transport (Valhalla and Power Plant) = *[size=large]5000[/size]*
 Computer to Cary transport. From 2 to 1 Power Plant. 2 conductor Valhalla power cord for amp. Extra isolation step. Cary from 3 to 0 isolation = -200 (less detail but more neutral?)
 Valhalla digital XLR = 5?
 Valhalla power cord 2 to 1 conductor for DAC1 = 100
 Valhalla power cord 3 to 2 conductors for Cary = 5
 Valkyrja internal wiring for CD player = 5
 Valkyrja speaker cable hardwire into PCB = 380
 Valkyrja input signal wire for amp, from 24 AWG to 22 AWG = -3
 Modded Valhalla interconnect 1 conductor = *[size=x-large]1 000 000[/size]*
 Brilliant Pebbles Mini = 0.05
 Bypass fuses amp = 80
 Bypass fuses Cary transport = 2?
 Shortening Valhalla power cords = 1
 Disconnecting ground of DAC1 = 0.5?
 Valhalla power cord 2 to 1 conductors for Cary = 5
 Valhalla power cord 3 to 2 conductors for wall = 1
 4step to 5step isolation for DAC1 = *[size=medium]1200[/size]*
 Hardwired into Power Plant = 5?
 ERS Paper full coverage = *[size=x-large]2 000 000+[/size]*
 Valhalla interconnect XLR + hardwire = *[size=x-large]1 300 000[/size]*
 Valhalla interconnect dedicated shield ground = *[size=x-large]3 000 000[/size]*
 Noise Harvester + tweaks to compensate = *[size=xx-large]10 000 000[/size]*

_January 2007_

_Numbers are only accurate when based on the order the upgrades were made._


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## dcfis

So you do like the harvester? How much money do you have in powercords?


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## philodox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Numbers are only accurate when based on the order the upgrades were made._

 

Oh, *that's* when they are accurate. I am glad you cleared that up.


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## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My upgrades

 1 = Noticeable improvement
 10 = Night and day

July 2005

 Valhalla power cord for Krell KAV-500i = 15
 High Current Ultimate Outlet between wall and Power Plants = 5
 QuickSilver on everything = 15?
 QuickSilver on fuses = 2
 MultiWave II+ for source = 5
 xStream Statement between wall and Power Plants = *60*
 44.1 kHz to 768 kHz = 5
 MultiWave II and II+ for amp = 20
 Solid-Tech isolation = *100*
 QuickSilver GOLD upgrade = 5
 Valhalla between wall and Power Plants + hardwired = *60*
 Hifi-Tuning Gold fuse = 1
 Nordost Solar Wind 1 conductor + remove PCB = *220*
 Nordost Valkyrja 1 conductor = 140 (*360* compared to Stefan AudioArt)
 PS Audio GCC-100 = *200?*
 Cary 303/300 as transport for DAC-1 = *500*
 Modded Valhalla power cord (2+2+1) for DAC1, and computer as transport (Valhalla and Power Plant) = *[size=large]5000[/size]*
 Computer to Cary transport. From 2 to 1 Power Plant. 2 conductor Valhalla power cord for amp. Extra isolation step. Cary from 3 to 0 isolation = -200 (less detail but more neutral?)
 Valhalla digital XLR = 5?
 Valhalla power cord 2 to 1 conductor for DAC1 = 100
 Valhalla power cord 3 to 2 conductors for Cary = 5
 Valkyrja internal wiring for CD player = 5
 Valkyrja speaker cable hardwire into PCB = 380
 Valkyrja input signal wire for amp, from 24 AWG to 22 AWG = -3
 Modded Valhalla interconnect 1 conductor = *[size=x-large]1 000 000[/size]*
 Brilliant Pebbles Mini = 0.05
 Bypass fuses amp = 80
 Bypass fuses Cary transport = 2?
 Shortening Valhalla power cords = 1
 Disconnecting ground of DAC1 = 0.5?
 Valhalla power cord 2 to 1 conductors for Cary = 5
 Valhalla power cord 3 to 2 conductors for wall = 1
 4step to 5step isolation for DAC1 = *[size=medium]1200[/size]*
 Hardwired into Power Plant = 5?
 ERS Paper full coverage = *[size=x-large]2 000 000+[/size]*
 Valhalla interconnect XLR + hardwire = *[size=x-large]1 300 000[/size]*
 Valhalla interconnect dedicated shield ground = *[size=x-large]3 000 000[/size]*
 Noise Harvester + tweaks to compensate = *[size=xx-large]10 000 000[/size]*

January 2007

Numbers are only accurate when based on the order the upgrades were made._

 

You spend alot of money taking care of the symptems, not curing the problem...


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## empire23

From what i can see in the pic it seems like a LCR filter with buttload of Snubber caps and that's all it seems to be.

 Maybe Patrick82 should try real men mods, like from Corcom, Schaffner and Tyco. Try fitting an FN3258 from Schaffner into your mains, but if you get killed, don't blame me. (yes yes, i do see the irony and contradiction) They're far cheaper and they work at the source killing noise from the mains, plus if anyone has the balls to disconnect a live 3 phase system that supplies 220v 63 amps of juice, it would be Patrick82! Anyways the amount of filtering those babies give isn't bad. Worth a shot.

 There are easier and more expensive ways of course which involve lab equipment and unstable resonance cascade producing lamda cores 

 Anyways i'll take this chance to speak about a gripe a have with audiophiles. Firstly is why the fook do you guys pay 200 USD for LCR filters when you can get a PEM with the same specs for 30 USD, of course they don't come with LEDs and all but........ 

 Secondly, i went to an AV fair once in my place and the bestest power filter simply comprised of the gigantic toroid and loads of caps. Understandable, yes, Transformers isolate one side from the other, and caps filter out the transients. But for half the price, you can get those overcharging arses at HP Agilent to send you a dedicated AC power supply that totally rebuilds the sine wave.

 And instead of ERS paper, wouldn't 3M duct tape work just as well without the hefty price tag, they even have ones with copper lol. 72 yards of Anti static tape for 8 bucks is a steal i guess.

 Maybe i just don't know any better because i'm a n00b here, i believe in some tweaks, but my main point here is, why get overcharged for it when you can get something better for half the price?


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *empire23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Secondly, i went to an AV fair once in my place and the bestest power filter simply comprised of the gigantic toroid and loads of caps. Understandable, yes, Transformers isolate one side from the other, and caps filter out the transients. But for half the price, you can get those overcharging arses at HP Agilent to send you a dedicated AC power supply that totally rebuilds the sine wave._

 

Big capacitors give muddy sound? My Cary 303/300 has loads of huge capacitors in it, that's probably why it doesn't have any transient speed, I thought it was from the blurry brown DACs. My Benchmark DAC1 has small capacitors, and so does my computer, I'm getting crazy speed from that combo. With big capacitors it sounds too slow. I always liked the sound of small capacitors + Valhalla power cord, it colors the sound in the way I like it. 

 It seems like capacitors make it worse. Especially when the component is turned on for a while, when I unplugged my system for an hour and discharged the capacitors I was hearing crazy clarity. Everything sounded very clean and open. The smaller the capacitor is the cleaner it sounds like if it's turned on for a few days. It seems like some "dirt" gets stuck inside the capacitor and it needs to be unplugged to drain it out. That is what I heard.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tourmaline* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You spend alot of money taking care of the symptems, not curing the problem..._

 

If I would take care of the problems I would be in prison for blowing up radio broadcast towers and modding nuclear power plant with Valhalla cables.


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## hugz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *empire23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyways i'll take this chance to speak about a gripe a have with audiophiles. Firstly is why the fook do you guys pay 200 USD for LCR filters when you can get a PEM with the same specs for 30 USD, of course they don't come with LEDs and all but........ 

 Secondly, i went to an AV fair once in my place and the bestest power filter simply comprised of the gigantic toroid and loads of caps. Understandable, yes, Transformers isolate one side from the other, and caps filter out the transients. But for half the price, you can get those overcharging arses at HP Agilent to send you a dedicated AC power supply that totally rebuilds the sine wave.

 And instead of ERS paper, wouldn't 3M duct tape work just as well without the hefty price tag, they even have ones with copper lol. 72 yards of Anti static tape for 8 bucks is a steal i guess.

 Maybe i just don't know any better because i'm a n00b here, i believe in some tweaks, but my main point here is, why get overcharged for it when you can get something better for half the price?_

 

Oh please dont judge the rest of us from patrick. he's a joke around here, and everywhere else.

 Some people use the term "audiofool" to describe the people who go for the kind of tweaks which you have described as being entirely price inefficient (or just plain inefficient). 

 Fortunately, audiofools are a minority amongst the audiophile community. 

 An audio store will always be happy to charge heaps for something that could be had cheaper from a non audio store


----------



## hugz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I would take care of the problems I would be in prison for blowing up radio broadcast towers and modding nuclear power plant with Valhalla cables._

 

Why dont you buy some gear that you like the sound of without needing to be tweaked?


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hugz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why dont you buy some gear that you like the sound of without needing to be tweaked?_

 

Because I don't want to pay more for worse sound. Audiophiles pay $$$$$ to get the magic inside the chassis which is nothing but cheap components jammed together by a greasy manufacturer. They like to take advantage of ignorant customers and they boost up the price just because they can.
 They spend time designing the chassis so the resonance messes up the music as little as possible, then they charge 10x the price for it. I rather use vibration isolation to remove the vibrations from entering the chassis in the first place.

 Sources and amps don't magically make an improvement, they just change the flavor. What the flavor is depends on a combination of resonance, power, RFI/EMI, cables etc. You can take any gear and change the variables with tweaks. I rather take the cheapest gear to do that. I have tried high-end gear and they just make the music sound worse. After I downgraded to smaller and cheaper gear I heard bigger differences from my tweaks. With the same tweaks the smallest component with the shortest signal path sounds the best.


----------



## digitalmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audiophiles pay $$$$$ to get the magic inside the chassis which is nothing but cheap components jammed together by a greasy manufacturer. They like to take advantage of ignorant customers and they boost up the price just because they can._

 

What do you think the PS Harvester is? (And what does that make you?)


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hugz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh please dont judge the rest of us from patrick. he's a joke around here, and everywhere else.

 Some people use the term "audiofool" to describe the people who go for the kind of tweaks which you have described as being entirely price inefficient (or just plain inefficient). 

 Fortunately, audiofools are a minority amongst the audiophile community. 

 An audio store will always be happy to charge heaps for something that could be had cheaper from a non audio store_

 

Valhalla power cords gave the most for my money in my system. The component that gave me the least is a CD player which I paid $5000 for. It was better than Benchmark DAC1 at first but not after multiple tweaks. DAC1 is now far beyond the performance of the 5 times more expensive CD player. It's all about the tweaks to fix the problems...


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcfis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you do like the harvester? How much money do you have in powercords?_

 

Yes.































ftp://poollogics.is-a-geek.net:22163...9.06).DivX.avi
























 When looking at this picture I can feel something getting bigger in pants.






























http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgsR4TiBwug


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digitalmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you think the PS Harvester is? (And what does that make you?) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, it feels bad to pay for that but I don't have a choice. When I look at computer hardware in stores it feels like being in a junk yard. They are already obsolete after buying them...

 I don't know what to buy with the money anyway. If I spend my money on hookers it only lasts 5 seconds, but if I spend it on Valhalla cable it lasts my whole life.

 Same with the Harvester, it looks like it's going to last many years until the LED burns out. A hundred bucks for this is a great value in the long-term. Only MultiWave II+ is a better value because of the CleanSweep function, I can't be without that one. But I can be without Harvester because it's possible to compensate for it in the system. Without the CleanSweep the transients are a big block of brightness instead of blackness in between each transient. Amazing tweak for $99. I paid $3700 for Premier Power Plant just to get it for my computer (I don't need the other functions), that's how much the CleanSweep is worth to me. I'm not going to use it for the rest of my components because Premier doesn't have MWave4. Just for my computer and maybe the Cary transport as well.

 Edit: Half a year ago I was using another P300 Power Plant just for the computer with a huge table fan cooling it (video). But after it blew up I had only one P300 Power Plant left, it has saved me more electricity than the P300 costs, it blew up for this reason. Premier Power Plant is going to be great for the computer, when it arrives.


----------



## empire23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the same tweaks the smallest component with the shortest signal path sounds the best._

 

Not exactly correct my friend, we still have reflections caused by impedence mismatch so mind you there's a sweet spot between attenuation and reflections and due to the mismatch between the connector and cable, shortest might not always be best.

 Just my 2 cents.


  Quote:


 Oh please dont judge the rest of us from patrick. he's a joke around here, and everywhere else.

 Some people use the term "audiofool" to describe the people who go for the kind of tweaks which you have described as being entirely price inefficient (or just plain inefficient). 

 Fortunately, audiofools are a minority amongst the audiophile community. 

 An audio store will always be happy to charge heaps for something that could be had cheaper from a non audio store 
 

Glad to hear that we aren't all hopping mad with tweaks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know that there are people who don't believe in tweaks, and people who do, i think playing the middle is safer, but i still wont justify wasting my hard earned money on sanatarium hacks that won't do **** or are just priced 20 times more than what you can get from bulk retailers like Mouser, RS, Digikey and the rest.


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *empire23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not exactly correct my friend, we still have reflections caused by impedence mismatch so mind you there's a sweet spot between attenuation and reflections and due to the mismatch between the connector and cable, shortest might not always be best._

 

I don't use connectors, they make it sound edgy with lack of low-level detail, it's a small difference though. 
 I need to use a connector for the wall, otherwise I get evicted. It would be pretty hard to solder the wires there anyway, there is too much blue light when trying to hold the wires together, my eyes are too sensitive for that tweak.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digitalmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since you have the 5th dead and open, would you mind taking pictures of what's in there? Curiosity is getting to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I have successfully got my dead camera working again, I changed to a new pair of AA batteries. I will take the pics soon.


----------



## Quint

I used to use Harvesters in my main system, and I never noticed the bass boost you mention. That said, it's _very_ easy to overuse them: The soundstage shrinks dramatically, and the sound becomes compressed. Now I use only one, in the outlet next to my amp. The change is very minor. I think they're _way_ overpriced for what they offer, but I keep them in my bag o' tricks just in case the mood strikes me to try them again. Ah, the life of an inveterate tweaker.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Quint* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used to use Harvesters in my main system, and I never noticed the bass boost you mention. That said, it's very easy to overuse them: The soundstage shrinks dramatically, and the sound becomes compressed. Now I use only one, in the outlet next to my amp. The change is very minor. I think they're way overpriced for what they offer, but I keep them in my bag o' tricks just in case the mood strikes me to try them again. Ah, the life of an inveterate tweaker. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Exactly the same thing what i noticed when removing the shielding of a powercable...it opens up the soundstage and the sound doesn't sound compressed...i thibnk the harvester is nothing more then a simple ferrite...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 does the same thing as shielding...


----------



## dcfis

Patrick so your telling me that all those vallhalla cables cost $72,365.85 USD?? Jumping Jesus they didnt even give you a bulk discount?


----------



## dcfis

Were are these PEM things that are 30 bucks?


----------



## empire23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcfis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Were are these PEM things that are 30 bucks?_

 

Allied electronics, Mouser.com, Digikey.com, look under PEM (Power Entry Module), your best bets are Corcom (Tyco electronics), Qualtek and Schaffner


----------



## hugz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sources and amps don't magically make an improvement, they just change the flavor. What the flavor is depends on a combination of resonance, power, RFI/EMI, cables etc._

 

So in your opinion, amps and sources are merely incidental to the sound and the only real way to change the sound is by tweaks?


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hugz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So in your opinion, amps and sources are merely incidental to the sound and the only real way to change the sound is by tweaks?_

 

that's his moto... didn't you know that already


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hugz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So in your opinion, amps and sources are merely incidental to the sound and the only real way to change the sound is by tweaks?_

 

Yes, remove the problems that affect the gear and they sound similar. I see others who agree with me:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue26/stillpoint.htm
  Quote:


 It may sound like I am exaggerating the effects of the Stillpoint Component Stands, but I promise you I am not. Are the Stillpoints worth the asking price? If you measure their worth by the degree of improvement that just one unit accomplishes, the answer is a resounding yes. Is the improvement equal to the one brought about by changing cables? Absolutely. Changing a component? Yes. *In fact, I have often heard less difference when swapping CD players, or even amplifiers.*


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have successfully got my dead camera working again, I changed to a new pair of AA batteries. I will take the pics soon._

 

The picture quality of this camera isn't as good as my other dead camera. This one doesn't have any good focusing abilities, I changed the front switch to a flower picture but it still doesn't seem to work good. I can't make better pictures than this.


----------



## empire23

Just as i thought, some cheap arse snubber cap in an LCR filter network, with an LED in series with a resistor and voltage div. Some Wimas, RN60Ds or Caddocks (i love their inductionless resistors XD) would do a better job. The nerve people have to charge 100 USD for a pile of junk like that. 2 years to build that lol? See the toroid? That's the L, see the caps? That's the C and see that resistor? That's the R. Audiophile industry here i come....and i here thought EE was useless 

 Forgive me if i sound like a self whoring pimp but, i'll build you something better for 75 USD.....and i'll still be overcharging you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Schaffner-High-P...QQcmdZViewItem

 1) Buy stuff in Ebay link (I can't, i don't a credit card)
 2) Wait for package
 3) Install into mains, make sure you don't get killed.
 4) ??????
 5) Profit

 Anyways, for some dumb reason i have this urge to go and buy magic pebbles, no kidding......****


----------



## Filburt

LOL

 I saw this thread title and was going to post a comment but empire beat me to it -_-

 Oh well. Empire, the '???' is the audiophile magic; didn't you know?


----------



## dcfis

Empire or somebody please point me to something that will give clean, noise free power for the one item (headphone amp) that I use that plugs into the wall. Surge protection a plus.


----------



## milkpowder

What's happened to the windings on the transformer?!?! I'm tempted to take apart my Russ Andrews The Silencer for comedy value too. It cost freakin' $80 and is plugged in next to my energiser, doing **** all. I could've done with a pair of SR60 instead of this POS. I'm done trolling on threads with anything to do with black plastic boxes that claim to achieve miracles. Really don't know why I bought one in the first place... Their incredible marketing tripped me up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcfis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Patrick so your telling me that all those vallhalla cables cost $72,365.85 USD?? Jumping Jesus they didnt even give you a bulk discount?_

 

According to xe.com, he spent 86k on Valhalla. You were out by 14k
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It boggles my mind to wonder how a 24 year old can afford to spend 86k on cables... What do you eat Patrick?


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milkpowder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you eat Patrick?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I bought my first Valhalla 2 years ago. I liked the improvement so I kept buying more. Year 2007 my fridge has more stuff in it because my Valhalla setup is complete.


 Year 2005














 Year 2006









 Year 2007


----------



## dcfis

You had those same boxed foods in your door for over a year??? What do you do for work man? Thats some martin logan statements you have in just power cords.


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcfis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You had those same boxed foods in your door for over a year??? What do you do for work man? Thats some martin logan statements you have in just power cords._

 

I don't do work, I used my life savings to buy Valhalla cables. I didn't actually buy them new from that Swedish store, I bought them used from Audiogon and cut to shorter lengths, the best investment I ever did. Valhalla is worth fasting for!


----------



## dcfis

Patrick why am I not suprised about that bowl?


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't do work, I used my life savings to buy Valhalla cables. I didn't actually buy them new from that Swedish store, I bought them used from Audiogon and cut to shorter lengths, the best investment I ever did. Valhalla is worth fasting for!





_

 

I still recognize a bean or two...


----------



## empire23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcfis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Empire or somebody please point me to something that will give clean, noise free power for the one item (headphone amp) that I use that plugs into the wall. Surge protection a plus._

 

Plugs into a wall.....hmmm that's abit hard unless you're willing to DIY.

 I usually recommend a PEM with a fastblo fuse, should protect from alot of spikes and surges. As for the PEM i recommend either the Schurter FMW2 @ 1A (Medical Grade/set standard for emmissions) or a Corcom 3EC1. Why? Because they usually are small enough to replace your old IEC connectors easily. They generally are a drop in solution provided you case has enough space, just unscrew the old IEC socket and put in the new PEM. And walla, you're done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A more hardcore, but still pretty simple job would be using 2 things, an Isolation transformer, if you're rich, go ahead and use a torroid, but any Line Isolation transformer should do fine (mind you they will eat into your power bill due to heat loss from eddy currents), and then stick the transformer in line with a single phase power filter like the Schaffner FN2410. Then add a nice metal casing.........with loads of ERS paper.....nah......buy some copper EMI shielding tape from 3M if you like overkill and paste it around the interior (or whatever you want to shield from EMI and RFI for that matter, be it your cat, dog, furniture, CDs, books, whatever). You might wanna get a good Volex power cord with strain relief for a better job.

 Here's a serial diagram if you're going to go DIY. 

 Socket -> Power Cable of your choice -> Transformer (if you like overkill, feel free to add another PEM infront of the transformer) -> Single Phase Filter -> Output

 Wohoo, you have a power filter of the highest caliber for less than a 100 bucks. Nothing a little elbow grease can't do eh?


----------



## Filburt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milkpowder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Russ Andrews The Silencer_

 

That product name has an eerily familiar tone to it...


----------



## Jahn

Patrick, there is zero reason to post your moldy beans. None.


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jahn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Patrick, there is zero reason to post your moldy beans. None.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What moldy beans? It's a picture of my flurry little pet. He lives in my fridge in a little box, I feed him beans.


----------



## Patrick82

I'm hearing unbelievable detail and transparency now, no problem with bass! Yesterday I did a few things to my computer and have no idea which one was the reason for the improved sound, so I list them all. I wasn't expecting any improvement in the first place, it just appeared.





Extra rubber bands for isolation feet needed a couple days to break in.

I moved all music to a dedicated harddrive. I changed my RAID0 setup from 2 drives to 4 drives (my 2 drive array was 50+% fragmented, my 4 drive array is 5% fragmented). Before I was using 3 drives in my computer, now I'm using 5 drives. It increased the wattage with about 25watts which gave more internal power supply switching noise. The current draw of Valhalla cables to the wall has increased as well so the whole audio system is affected.

Turned off computer without turning off audio system (different combination of burn-in).

Didn't listen to my system for over a day (normally I listen many times a day).

Used a different album to keep my system burned in.

Didn't train my muscles for over a day (normally I train 2-4 times a day).

Ate a loaf of bread and butter within 18 hours (there was nothing else to eat).

It started snowing and temperature went from 0 to -5.5 degrees Celsius, it hasn't been this cold for a year. Inside temperature dropped from 20.5 to 19.5 degrees. Window was open when I was sleeping and when I woke up the room was very cold. I closed the window and went to bed with K1000 and watched a couple episodes of Prison Break season 2, the sound was clearer than season 1 which I finished a week earlier. Afterwards I turned on music and was shocked of the low-level detail.




 The biggest improvement came from computer. But I'm also surprised that my Cary transport sounds a little better too, I'm hearing the "snowy weather" sound signature but with little more detail from the removal of bass because of more current draw through the Valhalla cable from the wall. It's like making the power cord a little thinner again.

 I'm hearing combinations of many things now. The colder temperature should have given less low-level detail but it didn't, something else is the reason for that. The extra current draw from two more harddrives could be the reason, there is not too much bass anymore. I'm hearing more potential from the computer now (plugged into Ultimate Oulet), the transients sound a little broken but it seems that Premier Power Plant would fix that.
 When I turned on my Cary transport (connected to P300 Power Plant) it sounded perfect for a couple minutes until I started hearing bass problems, that's a good sign, normally I have something to complain about from the start.

 I'm still hearing the "Harvester bassy wall" signature so I know it's still working. I'm also hearing the "extra rubber bands for isolation feet" signature as well, but it sounds like the rubber bands are more stretched now so it causes me to hear more low-level detail. The stiffer the rubber bands are the more the midrange is emphasized.

 Computer has unbelievable speed, background is blacker than ever. I can't believe the quiet sounds I'm hearing! Bass is in background like the way I want it, but with Cary it is in front. My transports sound the opposite now!

 Computer sounds very different now, I'm hearing more midrange low-level detail, but the bass detail is reduced which makes bass sound cleaner and tighter. I'm hearing more broken surface transient speed but with more midrange low-level detail. 
 It seems that the internal switching noise of the power supply gives better sound than the noise from the wall, because there is less noise for the amp and DAC. This increases the low-level detail which is more apparent in the midrange.

 I like to keep the transport a little jittery to get the illusion of more blackness and transparency. I like the "hairy" sound of the computer as well, the transients are that thin and the rest of the system needs to be good enough to hear it. But I haven't heard the hairiness anymore since I stopped using P300 Power Plant for computer. Today I'm hearing more potential from computer than ever before. It seems like I would like computer more than my 10 times more expensive transport because computer is hairier with less bass. I need to fix bass of Cary somehow, it is using the output transformer of P300 Power Plant, that must be it. Before I got the Harvester my Cary sounded almost perfect with too little bass and too much blackness, computer sounded heavier, smoother, warmer and more dull, I couldn't believe it! It was from the unmodded Valhalla power cord.

 Now the Cary sounds a little too heavy with the Harvester plugged into the wall, and the computer sounds too thin after adding a couple more harddrives. The difference between my gear has always been a tweak or two apart.


----------



## The Monkey

oy.


----------



## Patrick82

Temperature outside has dropped from -5.5 to -7.5, it feels a little colder inside too but measurement device in corner hasn't updated itself (it isn't in the path of airflow).

 I'm hearing whiter and blacker sound now, very analytical and cold now. The sibilance has started to bother me a bit, I had no problems an hour ago. Bass from Cary has reduced again and it sounds tighter, colder temperature does this. 
 It is unbelievable I'm still getting more detail than yesterday. Harvester plugged into wall is compensating for colder ambient temperature!

 I think the ambient temperature made most of the difference, if this is true then the summer will be a problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How to compensate for the summer? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My PSU isn't strong enough to handle more harddrives to boost up the wattage draw from Valhalla cable.


----------



## threEchelon

Changing your HDD configuration cannot change the sound. All the audio you are hearing is buffered to RAM and then read from the RAM.

 Also, it's unlikely that adding two more HDD's will "strain" your PSU. HDD's only use a maximum of a bit over 10W during normal operation.


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *threEchelon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Changing your HDD configuration cannot change the sound. All the audio you are hearing is buffered to RAM and then read from the RAM._

 

I didn't think that either, but I was listing that just in case. The files used to be in heavily fragmented active drives and sometimes the music would stutter, it still sounded great though.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *threEchelon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, it's unlikely that adding two more HDD's will "strain" your PSU. HDD's only use a maximum of a bit over 10W during normal operation._

 

My old Krell power amp that drew 200 watts sounded better with a fatter power cord at that time. I found that 4x16 awg per signal was the best size. My computer takes 100+ watts and 2x16 awg sounded better than 3x16 awg. I found that the power cord size needs to be optimized based on many variables, and one of them is current draw.


----------



## musicmonkey

I feel like i'm a witness to one mans spiral into an OCD breakdown, kind'a uneasy reading - i hope your taking the time to enjoy what you're listening to, what is your preferred choice of music at the moment patrick?.


----------



## Jahn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmonkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel like i'm a witness to one mans spiral into an OCD breakdown, kind'a uneasy reading - i hope your taking the time to enjoy what you're listening to, what is your preferred choice of music at the moment patrick?._

 

i think you missed his other thread, "how to enjoy music" - apparently he does not know how to enjoy music, he claims.


----------



## Patrick82

This time I went to bed with the window closed, there is still some cold air coming through the gap though.

 It is -3.5 degrees Celcius outside and 20.0 degrees inside. Half degree higher inside temperature than yesterday, my thermometer is very slow though. My body is still little cold but I'm hearing WARM sound! I can't believe the night and day difference temperature makes for the audio system!
 I'm hearing the same detail but in a different flavor, the detail doesn't draw attention to itself anymore, everything is very smooth. Sibilance is gone, whiteness and fake blackness is gone. It sounds kind of dull compared to yesterday. I'm hearing too much bass again! I liked the sound of 19.5 C inside temperature instead. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I need to build a temperature controlled box for my audio system.



 I'm still hearing the extra detail. I have excluded most of my list and these are left:


Extra rubber bands for isolation feet needed a couple days to break in.

I moved all music to a dedicated harddrive. I changed my RAID0 setup from 2 drives to 4 drives (my 2 drive array was 50+% fragmented, my 4 drive array is 5% fragmented). Before I was using 3 drives in my computer, now I'm using 5 drives. It increased the wattage with about 25watts which gave more internal power supply switching noise. The current draw of Valhalla cables to the wall has increased as well so the whole audio system is affected.

Turned off computer without turning off audio system (different combination of burn-in).


----------



## Patrick82

I opened up the window and spread the drapes and cold air came flowing inside really fast, I left the room for 15 minutes and the inside temperature had dropped from 20.0° to 19.5° C. After 5 minutes my bed cover was cold and my arms were freezing. My bed is beside the window and my body and K1000 earspeakers are affected first.

 My body is shaking and I'm still hearing warm sound, it sounds like the audio system hasn't been affected yet. I'm hearing edginess + muddiness from the K1000 drivers which is hard to hear if it wasn't for the slight lack of detail. Warm system + cold speaker drivers is the worst combination. The drivers need to be warm and the audio system needs to be cold, but everything needs to be burned in 24/7.

 The best sound comes from leaving the window open while sleeping and then close it when you wake up. The temperature affects the audio system slower than the body. It sounds like it has a delayed effect. I have heard this for over half a year.

 Edit: 30 mins after opening window it's 17° C inside now! Still warm sound. It affects the system very slowly.
 I'm hearing edgy + warm sound, it comes from K1000 drivers which was affected fast by the cold air, there is lack of detail as well. Drivers need to be kept warm!! Sauna for headphones and freezer for audio system is the way to go!


----------



## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still hearing the extra detail. I have excluded most of my list and these are left:_

 

I forgot something in my list! 


The Valhalla power cord for computer was touching water cooling tubes and I could feel the vibrations of the Valhalla cable. When I changed the harddrives I adjusted the Valhalla a few cm so it wasn't touching.

 A year ago I heard a subtle improvement when I did the same thing, but the difference was so small that I ignored it like I do with all subtle differences, I only care about night and day improvements.


----------



## Patrick82

I remember something else I did. A few days earlier I changed the AC connector for Cary transport from Marinco to Wattgate, I didn't hear a difference when I listened. Then I didn't listen to Cary anymore for a few days, I listen mostly to my computer. That could be another reason why Cary and computer sound so different now, but I think it's mostly because of modding the Valhalla thinner for my computer.

 Cary still had too much bass when its Valhalla power cord was using Marinco connector, I don't know what the Wattgate improved. It is weird that people spend so much money on connectors that give subtle differences. The only time I heard a difference was when I hardwired the AC cables, but even then it was a very small improvement. When I think about it, 2 years ago when I replaced the old AC outlet in the wall I didn't hear a difference, I thought I would, I cut a hole in the wall for nothing. Another time I was experimenting with power cord sizes (for my old Krell power amp) I tried Marinco and Wattgate and didn't hear a difference, if there was a difference there might have been a little bit more bass, but I wasn't sure.

 The conductor makes a huge difference, 78 vs 60 microns silver plating is a night and day difference. Conductor burn-in over 3-4 days made the biggest difference I ever heard. 
 But connector burn-in just lasted 5 hours. Why do people waste their money on connectors? They should spend it on Harvester instead! Harvester is one of the best values at its price point. The difference it makes is HUGE!

 Edit: I have heard huge differences when pasting the connectors with QuickSilver Contact Enhancer, it made it sound too warm and smooth so I stopped using it. I like the edgy sound better.


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Noise Harvester made bass so heavy I will puke soon. I don't like it. Synergy is all messed up, I worked so hard to get it good and now it's all gone. _

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why do people waste their money on connectors? They should spend it on Harvester instead! Harvester is one of the best values at its price point. The difference it makes is HUGE!_

 

I guess that clears that up.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess that clears that up._

 






 No kidding:

 i also did some powercord tests and this is what i found out...it also concurs with patricks findings of stacking quality powercables troughout the system!

 I made a high end powercord myself with furutech rhodium plugs and high end cables and this was a huge improvement...somebody sent me some cables to test and i replaced the cheap PC powercord for that higher end cable: The grainyness is totally gone and transparency has also increased! IT WAS THE CHEAP PC POWERCORD!

 The findings Patrick did with adding more valhalla cables to the setup is also the same i did when i added more high(er) end cables to the total system!!!

 In other words, it really is a good investment to at least change the cheap PC cords for better cables! make sure you have at least descent cables in all components to max out performance...it is worth it and quite audible!!!


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## Patrick82

I slept with window open and woke up a couple hours earlier to close the window, then I went back to bed. I woke up and it said 18.5° C, half an hour later it said 19.0° C. I listened and it sounded colder and edgier but detail was worse! Colder air makes detail worse but also more emphasized.
 Then I turned on my Cary transport (I leave it in stand-by) and OMG it was crazy black compared to computer, I couldn't believe it! I switched back to computer and it was very dull. Then I turned off computer for half an hour and continued listening to Cary, I heard that it got smoother after I turned off the computer, I didn't like it. When I turned on my computer the edginess of Cary was back, it gave the illusion of a blacker background. The computer is infecting the P300 Power Plant with the switching noise, I like it.

 Ok, so the computer was cooled down 31 minutes, I turned it on and switched from Cary to computer and OMG it sounded blacker! It sounded almost as black as Cary! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Detail and transparency was better than ever!

 I found the magic combination. Transports need to be started up from cold and the rest of the system needs to be turned on 24/7 with music running. This gives the blackest background. 
 You could turn off the music for half an hour to let the transport cool down before listening... But the optimal way is to use another transport to keep it constantly burning in.



When unplugging the whole system the bass is gone and it sounds very thin and open. There isn't any blackness. There is emphasized midrange and surface transient speed. But after 2-3 days it sounds too warm.

When cooling down only the transport it sounds edgier and blacker, it compensates for the warmer system!

 The longer the transport is turned on the muddier it sounds like, this explains why the difference between my transports increased over time. I leave Cary in stand-by and computer running 24/7. After a few days my computer sounded very dull and it forced me to find what the problem was with it. Problem was fixed after I let it cool down half an hour.

 A few months ago I left Cary running for a day and it sounded warmer but detail wasn't improved so I didn't try it again. Everytime I turn on Cary it sounds crazy black but after a few minutes it starts sounding warmer and warmer. But detail doesn't improve like it does when warming up the rest of the system. So the best way to compensate for the system is with the transport. Keep the transport cold!



 I have a couple variables on my list that are confirmed now.

Turned off computer without turning off audio system (different combination of burn-in). [size=small]*CONFIRMED*[/size]
Ambient temperature. [size=small]*CONFIRMED*[/size]

 I ate another loaf of bread within 18 hours and it DID NOT make the background blacker.


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## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I ate another loaf of bread within 18 hours and it DID NOT make the background blacker._

 

No kidding...it also didn't still your hunger completely huh?


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## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I ate another loaf of bread within 18 hours and it DID NOT make the background blacker._

 

No kidding...it also didn't satisfy your hunger completely huh?


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## Patrick82

I'm getting problems now. It is hard to turn off music now. I'm reaching over with the finger to press pause, but then I change my mind and keep listening longer. After a while I try it again, I finally press pause and it freaks me out, wow what happened to real life. Someone removed the sounds from real life! My audio system sounds more real life than real life itself, it is confusing to listen. I don't know when I'm listening to my audio system. The sounds come from real life and when I press pause the sounds are gone, it's like putting ear plugs on. What is going on?


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## Patrick82

It is hard to read Internet now. I have tried to read whole day but never got anywhere, it is hard to take my focus off from the music, I might as well turn off my display completely. 

 With the Harvester plugged into the wall I'm able to listen to music properly instead of keeping it as background music.

 It seems like synergy is back, but only at a certain ambient temperature. It sounds much warmer but it doesn't bother me because detail is better, it's more relaxing to listen to smoother sound. It is addicting now, it's a problem when needing to go to toilet, I don't want my floor to get sticky.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess that clears that up._

 

Noise Harvester doesn't have any weaknesses because it isn't in the signal path, it just removes the noise from the power line. The Harvester showed problems in my system and that's why I didn't like it at first, after I found the problems and fixed them I like the Harvester again. 
 Usually I underestimate the improvement tweaks make, I mentally block it like skeptics, but after a couple of weeks I can't ignore the truth anymore.


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## jbloudg20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Noise Harvester doesn't have any weaknesses because it isn't in the signal path, it just removes the noise from the power line. The Harvester showed problems in my system and that's why I didn't like it at first, after I found the problems and fixed them I like the Harvester again. 
 Usually I underestimate the improvement tweaks make, I mentally block it like skeptics, but after a couple of weeks I can't ignore the truth anymore._

 

Sweet, time to cover your walls with them!


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## philodox

Not that I am convinced the Noise Harvester does anything, but I think that an interesting product would be a replacement wall outlet with _noise harvistration_ built in. That could be cool.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jbloudg20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sweet, time to cover your walls with them!_

 

First I need to stack up my room with diapers before I plug in the rest of the Harvesters.


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## Michael415

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After a while I try it again, I finally press pause and it freaks me out, wow what happened to real life. Someone removed the sounds from real life! My audio system sounds more real life than real life itself, it is confusing to listen. I don't know when I'm listening to my audio system. The sounds come from real life and when I press pause the sounds are gone, it's like putting ear plugs on. What is going on?_

 

Guy it sounds like your having a psychotic break, and if ur 24 prime age for schizophernia to emerge. After reading several of your threads you meet a fair number of criteria so please take some of your money and instead of buying another 'tweak' get some help. There are ppl that can help. You guys be nice with him and less mocking the guy needs help.


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## philodox

Michael - I wouldn't bother... I got in **** the last time that I said basically the same thing. Patrick has mentioned at times that he has issues. Personally, I think he just acts this way because he enjoys the attention.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Michael415* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guy it sounds like your having a psychotic break, and if ur 24 prime age for schizophernia to emerge. After reading several of your threads you meet a fair number of criteria so please take some of your money and instead of buying another 'tweak' get some help. There are ppl that can help. You guys be nice with him and less mocking the guy needs help._

 

When I say Valhalla is crazy cable, I'm not kidding! Harvester pushed the psychosis a little further, amazing tweak. The highs from ERS Paper are addicting as well, it's like a drug and I'm using all day.


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## Patrick82

I was just going to listen to one track before going to bed, but I ended up listening for hours, it hasn't happened before because I can control it and force myself out of it, but not with the Harvester. The improvements just keep getting bigger and bigger since I opened up my "placebo protection suit". I haven't been this impressed from an upgrade since...never! I have listened to my 192 kbps mp3's for a year and they sound completely different now, new detail everywhere, vocals sound like never before, I didn't know the vocalists sounded like that, it is more clear now.

 BTW. The difference between mp3 and wav is nothing to me, the difference it almost as small as wiping off dust from headphone cable. People like to exaggerate and brag that the difference is big, it is not, at least not as big as Harvester or any other tweak.


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## Patrick82

It sounded muddy a day later. I turned off my computer for half an hour but didn't keep music running through K1000 with my other transport. The end result was edginess and muddiness from cold K1000 drivers, there was lack of detail. The edginess gave me a headache but CleanSweep of Power Plant fixed it. After a few hours of K1000 burn-in it sounded little too smooth again. I listened to Cary and it was too smooth as well, Cary didn't sound like it did two days ago.

 I turned off my components for 6 minutes using the button on P300 Power Plant. It didn't help much.
 Then I unplugged the P300 from the wall for 8 minutes and the difference was huge. It sounded brighter with more midrange clarity. The muddiness was greatly reduced, but not the same as when I unplugged it for half an hour.
 It sounded very bright and edgy so I did the CleanSweep and the improvement was crazy! It made it super smooth with more transparency and detail. The soundstage got bigger because of smoother ambient decay. CleanSweep makes the biggest difference after the system has been off. I would give it (PS Audio MultiWave II+) a 30 million improvement score right now. 2 years ago it got only 5 score (for Cary 303/300) because my system didn't have enough resolution.


 My P300 Power Plant had been on for 8 days 14 hours. It seems that it sounds the best after 5 days of burn-in, but after 7 days it just goes downhill. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The computer transport lasts only 2 days before it gets muddy and needs to be unplugged, then it needs to be burned in for a day. Crappy technology...


 I remember now, 18 months ago I was using all my gear in stand-by with P300 Power Plant running. Every time after 1-2 weeks my system sounded muddier than before, every time! The problem is the P300 Power Plant!! Big muddy capacitors... I wonder if plugging it into another Power Plant and doing CleanSweep will fix it. If not, then there's a big problem.

 Maybe I should replace P300 with Premier Power Plant, but then I don't have MWave4 anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe replacing capacitors of P300 is needed.


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## Patrick82

Maybe it's better that I'm getting inconsistent sound anyway. This way the psychosis only lasts a short time before the muddier sound causes me to wake up and take care of the problem (I don't want to wake up and see that a long-term psychosis has done something I regret). I'm too poor to fix the hole in my window anyway, and the hole in my door, and in my closet, and...oh my god I have holes everywhere! I counted 12 holes in my room. That might explain the huge draft I'm getting. I can feel the air circulating everywhere!


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## Patrick82

After unplugging my system for 8 mins I'm getting too edgy sound now, horrible, I just want to turn off music. Earlier I wanted to turn off music because it was too warm, now it's the opposite! Why does a tweak need to make so big differences!? After I got the Harvester everything is more revealing now. I just want every tweak to be subtle so I can fine tune the sound properly, but instead I'm getting HUUUUUGE differences. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have warmed up the room to compensate for the edginess, it didn't work, the power of power is more powerful than the power of ambient temperature. The warmer air just makes it harder to breathe.

 The CleanSweep is helping but I don't want my finger to get sore... Without CleanSweep I wouldn't even be able to listen to music!


 The edginess comes from lack of low-level detail. Need to burn in the system again...


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## Patrick82

Ah yes. I can feel the synergy in my body now, amazing. I'm inside the recordings now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No matter how crappy the recordings are it sounds great. I don't want to stop listening again. I get a weird feeling in my body I have never felt before, something is opening up in my body now. I get the feeling in my upper stomach area below the chest, it feels like something is moving around there. I can feel some kind of adrenaline too.



 EDIT: I know what it is now, it's love. I have never felt a strong feeling like this before. It comes from turning on music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterflies_in_the_stomach
  Quote:


 Butterflies in the stomach is a medical condition characterized by the physical sensation of a "fluttery" (hence butterflies) feeling in the stomach. Some believe that this is caused by the release of epinephrine, or adrenaline, when one is nervous, pulling blood away from the stomach and sending it to the muscles. This in turn causes the stomach to temporarily shut down, possibly the reason for loss of apetite when one is "love sick".


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## Patrick82

OMG. I can feel adrenaline spreading all over my body now. It is very strong. It feels annoying and good at the same time. It feels like Harvester is taking my virginity away.


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## Fairbanks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OMG. I can feel adrenaline spreading all over my body now. It is very strong. It feels annoying and good at the same time. It feels like Harvester is taking my virginity away._

 

You need to check yourself in to a mental institution immediately.You show all the sighns of schizophrenia with mania.It's quite apparent that you have lost touch reality.Get HELP!


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## jbloudg20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fairbanks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You need to check yourself in to a mental institution immediately.You show all the sighns of schizophrenia with mania.It's quite apparent that you have lost touch reality.Get HELP!_

 

This has been tried a few times. Just let it go.


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## Patrick82

I don't have a problem when I'm not listening to music. A blacker background in the music would make anyone insane...


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## Patrick82

I haven't listened to my system for over a day now. I'm too scared of getting drawn inside the psychosis. It's like a drug. I think it was the extra rubber bands for the foot that did it, the feet are suspended the same depth now. There is better synergy than before. Small difference but still huge.


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## Patrick82

I replaced P300 with Premier Power Plant and got very thin bass because Premier doesn't have MWave4. I plugged in 3 Harvesters into wall and still not enough bass. It was just flat and empty. But then I put back P300 and crazy bass was back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm only using the P300 for my DAC1 now, it might have just the right amount of bass. I still have 3 Harvesters plugged in.

 MWave4 was the reason for the extra bass I wanted to remove, but when I use MWave1 I get lack of detail and too little bass. Tweaks make too big differences!


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