# So, is there better DIY headphone cable than Cardas 4-24 AWG?



## vvs_75

In my case I am looking for DIY cable that will be same size as the Cardas but with better sonic characteristics or smaller and more flexible for better portability but at least on the same level with Cardas.

 I did read several threads here and there and didn’t find anything better than Mogami W2534 Neglex Quad Mic Cable.

 So how does the Mogami W2534 cable stands against Cardas sonic wise? Any other cable in this category?

 Thank you for your time!


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## FallenAngel

The Mogami 2534 is just your average cheap stranded copper. It's nice, but nothing close to Cardas 4x24.

 If you want quality, you can take a look at the wire offerings from Vampire, Juniper, Kimber and Neotech. They should all be great quality, and are mostly solid-core.


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## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Mogami 2534 is just your average cheap stranded copper. It's nice, but nothing close to Cardas 4x24._

 

I respectfully disagree. I've used both, for both headphone cables and interconnects, I continue to use the Mogami.


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## sejarzo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Mogami 2534 is just your average cheap stranded copper. It's nice, but nothing close to Cardas 4x24._

 

Curious as to what you mean by "average cheap stranded copper"?


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## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Mogami 2534 is just your average cheap stranded copper. It's nice, but nothing close to Cardas 4x24.

 If you want quality, you can take a look at the wire offerings from Vampire, Juniper, Kimber and Neotech. They should all be great quality, and are mostly solid-core._

 

Yes the Mogami mic cable doesn't cost like boutique cables you mentioned but it's doesn't look cheap to me. And it’s probably the best mic cable around!

 Anyway I just looked at Partsconnexion catalog again and the cables you talking about are hook up wires. May be they sound OK but not very good choice if you looking for convenience off flexible nice looking headphone cable?

 What do you think guys about *CARDAS 4 x 33 awg Tonearm wire with shield - 4 wires plus shield plus thin wall jacket *?

http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/wire.html


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## FallenAngel

I've used the Mogami 2534 and it was very similar to Canare starquad for me. I couldn't really tell the difference in sound, but I haven't used it for a while now. That's what I mean by regular cheap copper, it's inexpensive and I simply wasn't as impressed with it as I was with Cardas 4x24 or Cardas Twinaxial.

 As for these being "hookup wire", wire is wire no matter what they categorize it under. What do you think is inside the Cardas 4x24? It's just their regular 23.5AWG hookup wire with a few different shields, nothing else. 

 33AWG may be a real pain to work with, it's VERY thin.


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## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've used the Mogami 2534 and it was very similar to Canare starquad for me. I couldn't really tell the difference in sound, but I haven't used it for a while now. That's what I mean by regular cheap copper, it's inexpensive and I simply wasn't as impressed with it as I was with Cardas 4x24 or Cardas Twinaxial._

 

Just bear in mind that the reason that the Mogami is so much cheaper than the Cardas is that it is able to be mass produced because of its high demand in the general industry. The Cardas by nature of its boutiqueness is going to be more expensive but not necessarily better. But it's also ok that we disagree about the cables relative sonic abilities, that's just the nature of the beast.

  Quote:


 33AWG may be a real pain to work with, it's VERY thin. 
 

Agree with you 100% here, 28ga is a pain to work with, I can't imagine anything smaller.


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## mikeliao

I rewired my tonearm with the Cardas 4x33awg. Major pain to work with but still high quality construction throughout. Wouldn't want to use it on headphones though, as the entire cable is far too thin and fragile. A hard pull would probably snap something inside.

 The Cardas 4x24 works well for me. Haven't tried the Mogami. Strangely, I can find the boutique stuff just fine here, but not mass produced cable is cannot be purchased in this city.


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## DigiPete

The cardas has a bright sonic signature compared to the mogami,
 I have heard both with both the K701 and HD650.

 Can't say I like the Cardas, made both those cans too bright/glarey,
 while I did like the Mogami quite a bit.


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## fierce_freak

I've used the Mogami before and liked it (26ga instead of 24, though...forgot the model number).

 -edit- w2893, I think.


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## vvs_75

Thanks everybody!

 I was thinking about w2893 too, since I am looking for something thinner and lighter.

 Also my D2000 with Cardas a bit bright, but I didn't know that the Cardas cable have bright sonic signature.

 So its look like there is no DIY cable that can stand against boutique cables like Moon Audio, ect.


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## threEchelon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks everybody!

 I was thinking about w2893 too, since I am looking for something thinner and lighter.

 Also my D2000 with Cardas a bit bright, but I didn't know that the Cardas cable have bright sonic signature.

 So its look like there is no DIY cable that can stand against boutique cables like Moon Audio, ect._

 

I doubt that. Try some 28 or 30 AWG silver in teflon tubing.


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## mrdon

Another Mogami star quad I would recommend is the Mogami W2893 mini quad (26 AWG). It's less "bulky" and more flexible than it's larger brother. I used the W2893 on my now former SA5000's to good results. At $.61/ft. for OFC copper cable, you can't beat it.


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## cantsleep

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 So its look like there is no DIY cable that can stand against boutique cables like Moon Audio, ect._


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## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *threEchelon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I doubt that. Try some 28 or 30 AWG silver in teflon tubing._

 

I know that there are lots of good wires but I am talking about professionally made flexible nice looking quad cable like Cardas or Mogami. Probably I wasn't clear enough.


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## threEchelon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know that there are lots of good wires but I am talking about professionally made flexible nice looking quad cable like Cardas or Mogami. Probably I wasn't clear enough._

 

I dunno. I'm still seeing DIY from what you're saying. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I understand what you want, though: A premade, finished, mass-produced cable. Unfortunately, nearly every cable of this type is made to carry a mono signal, so you're SOL unless you're willing to braid your own.


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## Chopha

Offtopic...

 Is the Cardas Starquad 4x24awg the best choise for recabling the DT-770, or should I look into some Mogami?

 /Chopha


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## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chopha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Offtopic...

 Is the Cardas Starquad 4x24awg the best choise for recabling the DT-770, or should I look into some Mogami?

 /Chopha_

 

For these, I would recommend something as bright and detailed as possible. I wouldn't recommend Cardas for these simply because it's very warm and these are seriously bass-heavy already.

 I recabled a pair with SPC with very nice results. I tried them with Canare cable first, and liked the SPC more.


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## Chopha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For these, I would recommend something as bright and detailed as possible. I wouldn't recommend Cardas for these simply because it's very warm and these are seriously bass-heavy already.

 I recabled a pair with SPC with very nice results. I tried them with Canare cable first, and liked the SPC more._

 

In that case, would this be a good cable for the job?:




 Shielded signal cable with PTFE insulation of internal conductors and external sheath of FEP. Conductors and shield of silver-plated copper. The cable has a wide temperature range, good chemical resistance, high tear resistance and is flameproof. Meets MIL-W-16878/4 and MIL-C-27500/F.

 Conductors: Silver-plated copper, 19×0.13 mm
 Area: 0.24 mm2 (AWG24)
 Conductor insulation: PTFE, colour-coded
 Shield: Silver-plated copper
 External insulation: FEP, silver-grey
 Temp. range: -65 to +200 °C
 Test voltage: 1500 V
 Operating voltage: 600 V

 /Chopha


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## Chopha

...or?


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## thedips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Mogami 2534 is just your average cheap stranded copper. It's nice, but nothing close to Cardas 4x24.

 If you want quality, you can take a look at the wire offerings from Vampire, Juniper, Kimber and Neotech. They should all be great quality, and are mostly solid-core._

 


 just had to bump.. but is there a one-stop site/or best site to check these out.. where all these cables/wires available (bare)? ive been trying to search for high end cables to redo my grados with... but seems like these higher end bare cables/wires are tough to find... (esp at a good price) 

 thanks.


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## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thedips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just had to bump.. but is there a one-stop site/or best site to check these out.. where all these cables/wires available (bare)? ive been trying to search for high end cables to redo my grados with... but seems like these higher end bare cables/wires are tough to find... (esp at a good price) 

 thanks._

 

Talk about resurrecting an old thread. My opinions of the Mogami 2534 have since changed (as I have used it a few times more). I think it's a great budget cable and prefer it over Cardas 4x24 in some applications. Generally the Cardas is a little on the warm side, especially in the mids and with some headphones, I prefer a more neutral midrage (don't get me started - I do not mean "neutral" as "exactly how it was intended", I simply mean less accented/soft/fluid, etc).

 For a good wire selection, there isn't many "one stop shops", Percy Audio has the best prices for Cardas and a few other nice wires like XLO which I tend to like. Partsconnexion has a very nice selection of wire, some more/less expensive. Each store seems to have a few really good prices with the rest "average". Redco is the most convenient place for basic cable needs as they sell connectors, Mogami 2534/2893 and heatshrink. For Jena Ultrawire, go straight to Jena labs, you won't get a better price from distributors (as far as I have seen).


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## Peyotero

Silver plated cooper won't do?


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## Juaquin

I like Mogami 2893 for basic, no-nonsense interconnects and headphone cables (up to the split). For nicer (but more fragile) cables I like SPC (silver plated copper), possibly intertwined with stranded copper for looks.


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## thedips

ill agree here with mogami seeming to be good for just some no nonsense good all around cable for whatever you need without breaking banks....

 seems like the general consensus on this board tends to state that SPC/ all silver cables making audio sound "more bright" which already added to some bright grados might seem to harsh for my listening tastes......

 however i do agree that stranded cable and spc tends to look best when some people get real creative in creating their interconnects and other high end use.... 


 looks like for my first cable ill use this left over MOGAMI W-2528
 to attempt to make some headphone cables... 3.5 stereo plug on one end... Y splitting to (2) 3.5 mono plugs
 this cable is not in quad configuration so it will be interesting to see if there is any sonic differences i can hear when making these... attempting at some cardas 4/24 quads.... and then just stock good ol grado wire....

 [pic of mogami w-2528 wire]


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## Peyotero

Damn how did I miss this one? Should be much more practical then quad for a quick headphone recable. Looks perfect for recabling earbuds, too.

 There's one thing I don't understand about stock hp cables. How is that some of them come with the signal and ground completely naked, no insulation at all. How come the sound doesnt cut off?


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## ruZZ.il

they're coated with enamel, which insulates them.

 btw, where in .il ?


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## Peyotero

Aha! So that must be the reason why some phones stop working when you run over the cord with the chair a couple of times 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 p.s
 Kiryat Shmona ***. Originaly from Eilat.


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## I34z1k

Does anyone know of any decent recabling resources? I don't know much about it but I'm decent with soldering sensitive goodies.

 Thanks


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## ruZZ.il

markertek.com has most everything you'd need to re-cable: wire, connectors, and sleevings. but what supplier you use also depends where you're from.


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## Juaquin

Redco is my favorite all-in-one stop. They have a lot of connectors, Mogami and other cables, and techflex/heatshrink.


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## BlueSkyHi

Greetings.  I just built an 18ft cable with Cardas 4x24 with a Furutech 4.4mm on the amp end and a couple of Furutech mini-XLRs on the other end for my LCD-XC and LCD-4 phones.  The Cardas was easy to work with and the the sound compares favorably to my Kimber AXIOS CU and my Moon Silver Dragon v3.  It's a good alternative to the more expensive cables IMHO.

I also like the Mogami as well because it is very flexible and is not as physically microphonic as the Kimber is.  With the Kimber I have to sit very still or I can hear the cable as it couple physical vibrations to the ear cups.


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## davesa

Went back and read through this... I built a cable for my home setup with Cardas 4x24, and then another for work with Canare Star Quad  L-4E6S. Later came across the Mogami W2534 but have not ordered any yet... the Cardas was expensive ($14.50 a foot was the best I found), in comparison to the Canare which you can get between $ 0.87 and $ 0.79 per foot. Looks like the Mogami is a bit harder to get and costs ~ $1.72 a foot - but in comparing the specs they are both the same gauge but the Mogami uses OFC and a spiral shield vs. a braided shield. The Cardas also uses a spiral shield. 

In the specs:
the Canare resistance is < 9.8ohm per 100M and the Mogami is 8.3 ohm per 100M, so lower in resistance
the Canare capacitance is 150pf/M and the Mogami is 97pF per meter ( conductor to conductor )

I could not find the specs for resistance / capacitance for the Cardas.

Given my little research project I probably will buy the Mogami for my next project, and take advantage of the slightly lower resistance / capacitance

I think both come in a variety of colors  - the Canare seem to be easier to get different colors like purple, or yellow


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## Strat1117

I had a 15ft cable made for my Hifiman headphones using mogami 2534 and a furutech 1/4” connector (Idk whi made the 2.5mm connectors). The sound is open and dynamic and a definite improvement over the stock cable, although not night and day different. I mainly needed the length.


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## lantian (Oct 11, 2021)

Best and cheapest option, as long as diy is not an issue. Is buying pure silver wire from a goldsmith/silversmith. 3n is already above anything one would consider in the same price class.
All you need to do is buy the pure silver wire, which is sold by weight,  so it costs almost nothing compared with prices of finished copper cables. All together  spent 30 euros for 0.2mm diameter 3n silver wire and cotton sleeves. You can go for 0.5mm one,  but see no real reason to do so soundwise. Sleeving the wire was bit of a challenge,  but doable as long as you have a thick peace of hard wire to solder the silver cable to and then pull the cotton sleeving over. Other than that you only need a couple of plugs for termination. Have built headphone cables,  interconnects and internal amp wiring with this 0.2mm 3n silver cable with astonishing results. Never ever gonna use copper again.
Also Teflon sleeving makes life easier, yet it would not be anywhere near as bendy and light as cotton sleeving.
Cable like this has no microfonics and is  far more transparent and musical than any copper based cable could ever hope to be.
Takes some time and patience,  but the rewards are totally worth it.


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## BlueSkyHi

I now use and recommend Mogami 2552.  It's a stereo microphone pair of cable laid out "lamp" zip cord fashion so that there is absolutely no cross-channel "bad stuff" going on particularly in a longer cable.  It's not as flexible as some of the others mentioned hear but it sure sounds fine and the cost is right.


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