# Philips Golden Ears challenge



## Moolok

So, you think you have a great setup and excellent ears capable to spot sligh imperfections and colorizations in sound?
  
 If so log in here and take part in Philip's Golden Ears challenge (note: I have nothing to do with Philips whatsoever, just stumbled upon this and wanted to share it).

https://www.goldenears.philips.com/en/introduction.html
  
 And moderators, if there is already a thread about this or the forums is wrong, feel free to delete or move the topic.
  
 I personally am still struggling with the basic level. Either my gear isn't all that good or I'm tone deaf


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## cswann1

This looks pretty neat.  I'll probably take the challenge for the fun of it, but even tho my hearing health is pretty good, when it comes to audio equipment I can usually only tell very blatant differences.


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## ralphp@optonline

Thanks for the link! I have completed the Basic level and now I'm moving onto to the Bronze Ears section.


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## RockCrayfish

Well...that was fun!


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## Moolok

rockcrayfish said:


> Well...that was fun!



Wow! Already? Congrats!


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## Moolok

Ok, finished the Basic Level. The hardest part for me was Timbre/Coloration section and especially 5 db part.
Tomorrow I shall continue towards Bronze Ears


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## RockCrayfish

moolok said:


> Wow! Already? Congrats!


 
  
 Thanks!
  


moolok said:


> Ok, finished the Basic Level. The hardest part for me was Timbre/Coloration section and especially 5 db part.
> Tomorrow I shall continue towards Bronze Ears


 
  
 That's awesome. I think the Frequency Band test in the Golden Ears section was the most frustrating and longest for me.


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## GrindingThud

Yes, definitely the hardest part for me!!

  
 Most of the effects are not subtle though....HD558 straight out of the front of a PC is good enough to make it through.
  
  
 Quote:


rockcrayfish said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> That's awesome. I think the Frequency Band test in the Golden Ears section was the most frustrating and longest for me.


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## SonusAudio

Pretty cool challenge.
  
 Setup: AKG K545 and FiiO X3 as USB DAC.


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## ForceMajeure

That was fun,
 although the mp3 bitrate challenge wasn't easy.
  

  
 Used gear Sony mdr-7520, 6 year old crappy dell laptop available at the time.


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## SgtMattBaker

Wasted about 10-15 minutes on timbre in golden ears, hardest thing for me.


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## TMRaven

Damn, this is a long process.  Spent 20 minutes to complete basic level.  No wonder they offer a save option.


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## GrindingThud

I find it fascinating that different people have trouble with different areas. Some of them I could click through with ease... barley half a second on each one and others I felt lucky to get through at all. 



sgtmattbaker said:


> Wasted about 10-15 minutes on timbre in golden ears, hardest thing for me.


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## Moolok

tmraven said:


> Damn, this is a long process.  Spent 20 minutes to complete basic level.  No wonder they offer a save option.



Indeed. I'm still at basic level. Haven't had time or opportunity to continue uninterrupted...


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## linglingjr

This looks pretty fun. I take my last final today and then I'll try this with my HD600s once I get home.


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## linglingjr

Two wrong on the sound stage one... That was a lot harder compared to the first two especially with my beyond worn out pads.
  
 So I did the "Basic Level"  and you guys are seriously crazy if you did all of it at one time.  Most of the sections didn't take that long but I did the basic one in probably 15-20 minutes and I've had enough for one day.  Very cool site, thanks for the link OP.


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## Depechetraff

I stomped through Basic and Bronze, but hit a brick wall on the MP3 artifacts test.  I'd had my B&W P7s on for about 5 hours, and I was kinda tired, so I'll try it again today.  If I still can't get through it I might as well convert all my FLACs to 128kbps and buy Skullcandys.


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## Moolok

depechetraff said:


> If I still can't get through it I might as well convert all my FLACs to 128kbps and buy Skullcandys.



Lol  Don't do eet.


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## TMRaven

I've completed through silver ears just now without a wrong answer so far; I expect to have a couple during gold ears.  So far the toughest have been the last question on timbre in basic level, the last one on stereo width a couple times, and the last question on mp3 compression: for those I had to cycle through the choices a couple times each.  Easiest ones seem to be loudness, high/low rolloffs and noise.


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## AnalogSavior

This is pretty cool.  I've made it through Bronze so far without any mistakes.  The timbre coloration in the Basic Level was by far the most challenging so far.


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## kraken2109

If you're looking for similar tests, check out 'how to listen' from Harman.
  
 EDIT: My results so far with my K612 pro:
 Spectral Balance: 100%
 Timbre: 100% (last one wasn't easy, but it was noticeable)
 Noise detection: 100%
 Distortion: 100%
 Stereo Width: 100% (some of these were tricky)
 Bass: 100%
 Loudness: 100% (easier than I expected)
 Well basic was easy, sometime soon I'll try out the next stages.


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## castleofargh

I like the idea of making things like that available. I tried it a few days ago and it was an interesting experience (even if rapidly boring for me. I had to force myself to finish the first level).
 what's interesting was to see that more than 10db bass boost if clearly audible, was not creating any real discomfort for me. when mid or treble boosts were hitting me in the face.
 also I tried again a few bass and spacial parts with a hf5 and laughed my ass off. I still could get the result without too much efforts because the variations were huge, but going from the jh13 to hf5 was like switching difficulty from novice to nightmare in a game. man are those etys bad with imaging.


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## Case

Stuck at the golden ears level Frequency Bands Challenge... that one actually requires you to learn and train quite a bit.


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## Ultrainferno

case said:


> Stuck at the golden ears level Frequency Bands Challenge... that one actually requires you to learn and train quite a bit.


 
  
 I am very stuck there. I just can't get it right it seems


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## BB 808

I've got Silver Ears+, finished everything except the 
  
   
 In this exercise, you can compare nine different frequency bands. While the music is playing, press a button to hear a boost or a cut in the selected frequency band.


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## Ultrainferno

And the Quiz


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## BB 808

...and the quiz at the end :O


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## radiofrog

Thanks for posting this, Moolok.  I'll try it when I get home with my DT880s.  It'll be good to see if I actually have ears of stone as I suspect.


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## Moolok

radiofrog said:


> Thanks for posting this, Moolok.  I'll try it when I get home with my DT880s.  It'll be good to see if I actually have ears of stone as I suspect.



Have fun and good luck! I'm stuck I'm afraid, ears of stone as you said and tone deaf to boot  And of course a bit of flu certainly doesn't help hearing...


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## mrAdrian

Trying silver ears, everything was cool except mp3 and reverb...
  
 What do you guys listen out for?
  
  
 mp3: Got no idea (lol lucky I'm not a huge believer in flac or 24/96 or else i'll be suiciding)
  
 reverb: Do you listen to the background organ and see if it is sounding crisp or not?
  
  
 :S


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## 96rubberduckys

mradrian said:


> Trying silver ears, everything was cool except mp3 and reverb...
> 
> What do you guys listen out for?
> 
> ...


 
 Reverb was fine, but I can't get mp3 artifacts for the life of me. Reverb is like an echo--why you think you sing 'better' in the shower.


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## BB 808

mradrian said:


> Trying silver ears, everything was cool except mp3 and reverb...
> 
> What do you guys listen out for?
> 
> ...


 
 Listen to the cymbals and there is a subtle difference.  Pick the one that sounds a little softer or blurrier.


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## elmoe

That was surprisingly fun! Thanks for sharing.
  
 edit: that last timbre question on basic was tough!


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## Katun

I'm still working on it right now. Been using the AD700 and E10.
  
 Needless to say, I'm stuck on the bass section in golden ears. That and the frequency bands.
  
 I thought the loudness sections were by far the easiest.


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## jonbernard

These tests are revealing to me how much my high-frequency hearing has been affected by aging - and I've never worked in loud environments and mostly avoided loud concerts.


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## BB 808

jonbernard said:


> These tests are revealing to me how much my high-frequency hearing has been affected by aging - and I've never worked in loud environments and mostly avoided loud concerts.



I agree, the hardest sections for me were the ones that involved high frequencies.


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## jonbernard

bb 808 said:


> I agree, the hardest sections for me were the ones that involved high frequencies.


 
  
 It probably explains why headphones that are supposed to be excessively bright don't bother me at all.


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## AbsoluteZero

Tried the challenge yesterday and I was able to get through Silver Ears on my cheap Logitech computer speakers, let's see what the Golden Ears section can do. Would love to use headphones for these but a little challenge is why I keep on using my desktop speakers.

The codec and the reverb was the most toughest for me with the soundstage caught me off guard a little.

Also, the tracks are awesome! I am enjoying every track it used.


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## Pier Paolo

Done​


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## morpheusx

Done


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## Ultrainferno

I finished gold yesterday, I had been stuck at the frequency bands for a while but yesterday I finally did it, must have had a good (h)ear day!


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## morpheusx

bb 808 said:


> I agree, the hardest sections for me were the ones that involved high frequencies.


 

 Agree, In some high frequencies test i can't hear differance at all
  
 Test my high freq hearing in this site
 http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/
 It turns out my hearing cut of above 14khz


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## jonbernard

morpheusx said:


> Test my high freq hearing in this site
> http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/
> It turns out my hearing cut of above 14khz


 
  
 Interesting site - i'll have to try it when I get home and compare it to the results from a hearing test I took a few years ago.


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## roguegeek

Wow, this is fun. Difficult, but fun.


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## bob439

morpheusx said:


> Agree, In some high frequencies test i can't hear differance at all
> 
> Test my high freq hearing in this site
> http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/
> It turns out my hearing cut of above 14khz


 

 thanks, good to know my hearing cut off was above 21k
 Freq bands in Golden is killing me.


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## roguegeek

Interesting. I couldn't make out anything past 18 kHz. Good or bad?​


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## kookoo

roguegeek said:


> Interesting. I couldn't make out anything past 18 kHz. Good or bad?​


 

 depends on your age, I went to an actual audiologist to have mine checked, 16,900 Hz, for someone in their mid 20s that's on par with the average


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## kraken2109

roguegeek said:


> Interesting. I couldn't make out anything past 18 kHz. Good or bad?​


 
 18kHz is fairly good, I'm about the same. There isn't going to be much above that in music.


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## roguegeek

I'm was having a fairly difficult time on the bit-rate differences section of the challenge.


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## Aero Dynamik

Well, that was certainly entertaining! I really don’t know how serious these challenges are, but I didn’t make it to *”Golden Ears”*. Yikes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I plugged in my Etymotics ER-4S and used my 1 Ohm modified CEntrance DACport and felt that none of the challenges were all that challenging, actually reasonably easy, even the challenges for “Golden Ears”. However, I failed one challenge and one challenge only and I failed it utterly and completely. That challenge was just impossible for me. I couldn’t get anywhere with it. Anyone care to guess which one? (I’ll unveil the answer tomorrow and would then like to discuss it and see if anyone else failed that particular challenge.)
  
_Thanks for any guesses!_
  
_EDIT: Just realized I'm stuck on "Silver Ears" as I can't get passed the challenge mentioned above. _


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## ForceMajeure

aero dynamik said:


> Well, that was certainly entertaining! I really don’t know how serious these challenges are, but I didn’t make it to *”Golden Ears”*. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 bitrate.


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## AbsoluteZero

Silver ears? I am guessing the codecs/bitrate or reverberation challenge.


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## roguegeek

I'm a little stuck on reverberation right now, so that might be my pick.


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## mrAdrian

I'm stuck at both reverb and bitrate, but I actually have more confidence in the reverb tests...


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## CrunchyChick

Hmm, I can't hear above 17kHz and even that sounded about half as loud as 16kHz
  
 drumming does wonders for hearing loss ;  anywho, time to take the challenge !!!
  
 edit :
  
  
 hardest on this section was timbre : coloration for me
  
 edit 2 :


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## kookoo

mradrian said:


> I'm stuck at both reverb and bitrate, but I actually have more confidence in the reverb tests...


 
 Still stuck on the reverb? C'mon i know you can do that one


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## Whitetriton

Have you noticed a difference in your ability to complete the different tests using different headphones?  I have a pair of LCD-3 on loan and they were good for some of the tests, but, I could not do the reverb AT ALL with them.  I switched to the HE-500 and was able to get through it without nearly as many incorrect guesses.


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## AbsoluteZero

I think the hardest thing in the reverberation is that we don't know the definitive characters of a reverb at the first time. 
I found out what reverberation sounds like after this test, at first I got a few incorrect guesses but when you start to hear a difference then you can glide past through it.

Good luck!


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## bob439

whitetriton said:


> Have you noticed a difference in your ability to complete the different tests using different headphones?  I have a pair of LCD-3 on loan and they were good for some of the tests, but, I could not do the reverb AT ALL with them.  I switched to the HE-500 and was able to get through it without nearly as many incorrect guesses.


 

 Had to shuffle 3 headphones to get through, but taking a break helped as much.


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## Aero Dynamik

forcemajeure said:


> aero dynamik said:
> 
> 
> > Well, that was certainly entertaining! I really don’t know how serious these challenges are, but I didn’t make it to *”Golden Ears”*. Yikes!
> ...


 
  
  


absolutezero said:


> Silver ears? I am guessing the codecs/bitrate or reverberation challenge.


 
  
  


roguegeek said:


> I'm a little stuck on reverberation right now, so that might be my pick.


 
  
  


mradrian said:


> I'm stuck at both reverb and bitrate, but I actually have more confidence in the reverb tests...


 
 Thanks for your guesses! The right answer is *bitrate*, what PHILIPS call _*MP3 Artifacts*_. It just seems impossible for me and it certainly makes me wonder why. I did find the other challenges to be reasonably easy, but to me bitrate is like running into a brick wall.
  
 It makes me wonder if something is wrong with my hearing, but if so why then didn’t I have any real problems with the other challenges? The only other explanation I can come to think of - except that something may actually be wrong with my hearing – is that the DAC of my CEntrance DACport is able to covert even the lower bitrates to a very fine analog signal. Or, it could be the other way around, i.e. that the DAC is unable to convert any bitrate to a fine analog signal. However, I find that to be less likely.
  
 So what do you think; hearing, DAC, or maybe something else? Also, does anyone know if the “Golden Ears” level is possible to unlock without passing the bitrate challenge? I already know I won’t be able to pass “Golden Ears” as I know for a fact I can’t hear a sinus tone above about 11 kHz to 12 kHz. Nevertheless, it would nice to see how far I’d be able to go.
  
 Thanks for any help, input or thoughts!
  
_EDIT: Just noticed that I'm able to detect 96 Kbps by cranking up volume to an unhealthy level, but above 96 Kbps not even that helps._


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## MadsK

I failed the bitrate challenge too. I think its about knowing what to listen for. After failing the test I converted some FLAC’s to 64 kbps MP3, then I made ABX test in Foobar. After a while I found that there was a clear tremolo on high tones and voices and I could immediately tell the files apart. Next time I’ll go for 96 kbps and then 128kbps. I think its all about practice.


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## Ultrainferno

I can't remember having problems with that part, what part is it exactly in what level? I'd like to redo it. thanks
  
 edit: Found it, it's in silver/details


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## Aero Dynamik

madsk said:


> I failed the bitrate challenge too. I think its about knowing what to listen for. After failing the test I converted some FLAC’s to 64 kbps MP3, then I made ABX test in Foobar. After a while I found that there was a clear tremolo on high tones and voices and I could immediately tell the files apart. Next time I’ll go for 96 kbps and then 128kbps. I think its all about practice.


 
 Thanks! I'll try to listen for "tremolo on high tones and voices".


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## Aero Dynamik

ultrainferno said:


> I can't remember having problems with that part, what part is it exactly in what level? I'd like to redo it. thanks
> 
> edit: Found it, it's in silver/details


 
 So how did you do? No problem? If so I'm amazed!


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## CrunchyChick

Yeah that bitrate one was harder than I expected as well, took some practice to know what to listen for in the hi-hats ; maybe if I had a pair of HD800's it would've been easier


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## Ultrainferno

I did that with the HE500


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## MadsK

aero dynamik said:


> Thanks! I'll try to listen for "tremolo on high tones and voices".


 

 That was what I heard most clearly in my own test. As stated above the hi-hat I probably the thing to listen for in the challenge.


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## kookoo

madsk said:


> I failed the bitrate challenge too. I think its about knowing what to listen for. After failing the test I converted some FLAC’s to 64 kbps MP3, then I made ABX test in Foobar. After a while I found that there was a clear tremolo on high tones and voices and I could immediately tell the files apart. Next time I’ll go for 96 kbps and then 128kbps. I think its all about practice.


 
  
 The way I did mine was to look for the tone in the voices. The  higher bit rate had a much...(fuller?) sound. It gave the 128 kbps an artificial sense of clarity but in actual fact it was missing some of the lower tones in the male's voice


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## Aero Dynamik

kookoo said:


> madsk said:
> 
> 
> > I failed the bitrate challenge too. I think its about knowing what to listen for. After failing the test I converted some FLAC’s to 64 kbps MP3, then I made ABX test in Foobar. After a while I found that there was a clear tremolo on high tones and voices and I could immediately tell the files apart. Next time I’ll go for 96 kbps and then 128kbps. I think its all about practice.
> ...


 
 Ah, that's very interesting and exactly my observation as well!
  
 I find detecting 96 Kbps very challenging, 112 Kbps very, very difficult (need to crank up the volume to unhealthy levels) but 128 Kbps and above just impossible. I’m so frustrated I’m grinding my teeth, especially as others seem to be able to pass it, although admittedly with some difficulties.


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## jonbernard

> Originally Posted by *Aero Dynamik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The right answer is *bitrate*, what PHILIPS call _*MP3 Artifacts*_. It just seems impossible for me and it certainly makes me wonder why. I did find the other challenges to be reasonably easy, but to me bitrate is like running into a brick wall.


 
  
 Standing in front of that wall myself.


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## Byrnie

moolok said:


> Ok, finished the Basic Level. The hardest part for me was Timbre/Coloration section and especially 5 db part.
> Tomorrow I shall continue towards Bronze Ears


 
 Totally agree wait until you get to that section on Bronze Ear's.  It's pretty hard IMO!


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## ieee754

MP3 artifacts is very hard, 96 and 112 kbps are quite easy, music sounds a bit distant at that compression level. But with 128kbps it's hard to tell the difference. I think that mp3ornot challenge is easier than this one.


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## mrAdrian

kookoo said:


> Still stuck on the reverb? C'mon i know you can do that one


 
  
 Didn't actually get time to try it again tbh... Flat out at work. Even when I do have the time, I much rather just listen to music and then sleep.
  
 I got the Philips tunes in my head however~


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## roguegeek

I can not, for the life of me, get passed the Silver reverberation test. What parts or instruments are you paying attention to specifically to identify when reverberation exists and when it doesn't?
  
 Finally. I was working on that test for a couple hours. Finally started zeroing in on the plucking of the bass to find my way through it.


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## pila405

This thing is really sweet! Thank for sharing.

 It is annoying that they make you listen to all the options...


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## jonbernard

mradrian said:


> I got the Philips tunes in my head however~


 
  
 I love Claude Pelouse's Paradise - couldn't get it out of my head for days after hearing it here.


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## Hubert481

Catched Gold with DRAGONFLY-USB-DAC + BOSE QC15
MP3 Artifacts(128) was the hardest part for me (silver part)
Gold part was easier than silver part.
Would like to see people, who hear the difference between MP3-320 and Flac

edit: pic attached


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## pila405

It was actually easier to hear the differences in the kbps section (also in all the rest) with the HD800 than with the ES3X.


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## Aero Dynamik

jonbernard said:


> > Originally Posted by *Aero Dynamik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> > The right answer is *bitrate*, what PHILIPS call _*MP3 Artifacts*_. It just seems impossible for me and it certainly makes me wonder why. I did find the other challenges to be reasonably easy, but to me bitrate is like running into a brick wall.
> 
> ...


 
 Good to know I'm not alone!


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## Aero Dynamik

roguegeek said:


> I can not, for the life of me, get passed the Silver reverberation test. What parts or instruments are you paying attention to specifically to identify when reverberation exists and when it doesn't?
> 
> Finally. I was working on that test for a couple hours. Finally started zeroing in on the plucking of the bass to find my way through it.


 
 Congratulations! I too found it challenging but was able to nail it without any errors. However, I really took myself the time needed before giving each of my answers. Anyway, to me the reverberation challenge is still nowhere near the “MP3 Artefacts” challenge. So, how did you do with that?


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## Aero Dynamik

I was feeling so frustrated about the "Details - MP3 Artefacts" challenge on the "Silver Ears" level that wrote the below e-mail to the e-mail address found on the “Golden Ears” site, However, I haven't received any reply, and I sort of doubt that I ever will. Anyway if I do receive a reply I'll publish it here.
  
_“Dear PHILIPS - Golden Ears,_
  
_First of all thank you for the very entertaining ”Golden Ears Challenge”! I can see that a rather large percentage of people have been able to make it all the way to “Golden Ears”. Fantastic! However, I for one probably never will as I’m too old to hear any frequencies above about 11 kHz. Nevertheless I would really like to be able to access the challenges of the “Golden Ears” level. However, I’m unable to because I can’t detect the 112 Kbps bitrate and above in the “Details – MP3 Artifacts” challenge on the "Silver Ears" level. So my first question is if there’s any way I can be granted access to the “Golden Ears” level without passing the “Details – MP3 Artifacts” challenge?_
  
_I should mention that I find all the other challenges of the “Silver Ears” level realatively easy to pass. I even verified it tonight by doing them all again, but the “Details – MP3 Artifacts” challenge is just impossible for me. Considering how many people have been able to reach “Golden Ears” I certainly don’t find it unlikely that the reason for my shortcoming is indeed my hearing, but in that light I’m also puzzled by the fact that I find all the other challenges of the “Silver Ears” level rather easy to pass. Could an alternate explanation possibly be that contemporary hardware and software is capable of converting also relatively low bitrates to a very fine analog signal? I’ve been contemplating monitoring the USB bitrate output using third party software just to be able to reach the “Golden Ears” challenges, but I just feel it wouldn’t be right, and I’m also sure this hasn’t been the method of the 263 people who were able to get their “Golden Ears”._
  
_Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!”_


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## roguegeek

aero dynamik said:


> Congratulations! I too found it challenging but was able to nail it without any errors. However, I really took myself the time needed before giving each of my answers. Anyway, to me the reverberation challenge is still nowhere near the “MP3 Artefacts” challenge. So, how did you do with that?


 
 I don't remember what I was listening to at the time, but I know I was able to get by it pretty quickly. Now I'm stuck on the Timber: Frequency Bands on Music part in the golden section. Anyone have problem with this one?


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## pila405

All those frustrated with the MP3 challenge or the reverberation one, wait until you get to the EQ challenge in the gold section...


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## jonbernard

aero dynamik said:


> Anyway, to me the reverberation challenge is still nowhere near the “MP3 Artefacts” challenge. So, how did you do with that?


 
  
 This is from memory, but I recall focusing my attention on the instrument (was it a bass?) on the right channel.


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## Aero Dynamik

jonbernard said:


> aero dynamik said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway, to me the reverberation challenge is still nowhere near the “MP3 Artefacts” challenge. So, how did you do with that?
> ...


 
 Are you referring to the "MP3 Artefacts" or the "Reverberation" challenge?


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## morpheusx

aero dynamik said:


> I was feeling so frustrated about the "Details - MP3 Artefacts" challenge on the "Silver Ears" level that wrote the below e-mail to the e-mail address found on the “Golden Ears” site, However, I haven't received any reply, and I sort of doubt that I ever will. Anyway if I do receive a reply I'll publish it here.


 
 MP3 Artifacts" challenge only have 4 questions
 Just keep guessing if you lucky u will pass it


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## CrunchyChick

morpheusx said:


> MP3 Artifacts" challenge only have 4 questions
> Just keep guessing if you lucky u will pass it


 
 Those are some bad odds though, considering you drop a level when you get one wrong.


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## Jupiterknight

Well, I tried this test and beforehand I thought that I would fail miserably since I have through HF learned not to trust my own hearing or anyone else for that matter 
  
 To my surprise, I breezed through basic level, bronze and silver level, albeit it took a few hours. Now I'm stuck at one last test in Golden Ears, passed all others with flying colors and I'm 93% at this stage, but the Timbre "Frequency bands on music" is truly killing me and I started to yell at my wife and deny to take the dog for a walk and she peed on the floor because I was stuck with this last test...The dog then peed on the floor, not my wife since I have taught her to use the toilet..
  
 Anyway, I thought I got it but then I screwed up on the last, the sixth, question and from there it all went horrible wrong.. since I started to question my judgement or maybe my ears are not tuned to one specific question that seems to keep popping up.. frequency area..
  
 Anyhow, fun stuff and I will pass it.. the last test. I just need to practice it which I didn't do at any of the other levels.
  
 I wonder how many would run through it all if Phillips had increased bitrate test and low/high frequency test by 10-20%. 
  
 By the way I'm using Etymotic HF5 straight from laptop HO.


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## jonbernard

aero dynamik said:


> Are you referring to the "MP3 Artefacts" or the "Reverberation" challenge?


 
  
 The reverb.


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## Aero Dynamik

jupiterknight said:


> Well, I tried this test and beforehand I thought that I would fail miserably since I have through HF learned not to trust my own hearing or anyone else for that matter
> 
> To my surprise, I breezed through basic level, bronze and silver level, albeit it took a few hours. Now I'm stuck at one last test in Golden Ears, passed all others with flying colors and I'm 93% at this stage, but the Timbre "Frequency bands on music" is truly killing me and *I started to yell at my wife and deny to take the dog for a walk and she peed on the floor because I was stuck with this last test...The dog then peed on the floor, not my wife since I have taught her to use the toilet..*
> 
> ...


 
 Hilarious! Wish you luck and hope that you get your "Golden Ears"!


----------



## Aero Dynamik

morpheusx said:


> aero dynamik said:
> 
> 
> > I was feeling so frustrated about the "Details - MP3 Artefacts" challenge on the "Silver Ears" level that wrote the below e-mail to the e-mail address found on the “Golden Ears” site, However, I haven't received any reply, and I sort of doubt that I ever will. Anyway if I do receive a reply I'll publish it here.
> ...


 
 If I remember the little mathematics about statistics I once learnt, the likelihood is about 1 chance in 25 I’ll be able to guess it provided I’m able to nail 96 Kbps without guessing. Provided I don’t need to guess at 112 Kbps the odds increases to about 1 chance in 10. No, I don’t think this method will work for me. Thanks for the suggestion nevertheless!

 Guessing four: (1/3) * (1/3) * (1/3) * (1/3) = 1.2 % (1 chance in 100)
 Guessing three: (1/3) * (1/3) * (1/3) = 3.7 % (1 chance in 25)
 Guessing two: (1/3) * (1/3) = 11.1 % (1 chance in 10)
 Guessing one: (1/3) = 33.3 % (1 chance in 3)


----------



## roguegeek

Holy crap. Finally! That took way too long. Particularly difficult was the Frequency Bands on Music test in the Golden section. I must have spent an hour just going through that one training. Definitely something everyone should try out.

  
_Edit: Uploaded a pic that actually showed the progress and completion date._


----------



## Aero Dynamik

roguegeek said:


> Holy crap. Finally! That took way too long. Particularly difficult was the Frequency Bands on Music test in the Golden section. I must have spent an hour just going through that one training. Definitely something everyone should try out.


 
 Congratulations! Impressive!


----------



## Sasasd

I got stuck at frequency bands in music,I got like 5/8 and then failed back to start. IMO everything else was pretty easy.


----------



## Hubert481

So mp3-compression was easy for you?
What exactly did you listen therefore to make it easy?


----------



## bob439

roguegeek said:


> Holy crap. Finally! That took way too long. Particularly difficult was the Frequency Bands on Music test in the Golden section. I must have spent an hour just going through that one training. Definitely something everyone should try out.
> 
> 
> 
> _Edit: Uploaded a pic that actually showed the progress and completion date._




I was in the same shoes , I took a break for couple of days and had to concentrate to get through


----------



## roguegeek

At some point during that portion, my ears got too fatigued and I just couldn't even do the simple stuff anymore. Walked away for a couple hours and got through it a lot easier. If you're having problems with a particular area, walk away and come back.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

roguegeek said:


> At some point during that portion, my ears got too fatigued and I just couldn't even do the simple stuff anymore. Walked away for a couple hours and got through it a lot easier. If you're having problems with a particular area, walk away and come back.


 
 I think it is good advice. I can now pretty well identify 96 Kbps and to some extent, 112 Kbps, but it still feels more or less impossible at 128 Kbps. My hope is that it actually is mostly about training, but I am far from sure that it's enough. It is easy to become exhausted and when that happens, nothing works. Additionally my tinnitus increases when I get pissed.


----------



## Alessandro1




----------



## Aero Dynamik

_* * * Got my Silver Ears * * *_​  ​ ​  ​  ​


----------



## morpheusx




----------



## Aero Dynamik

alessandro1 said:


>


 
 Impressive! Congratulations!


----------



## Aero Dynamik

morpheusx said:


>


 
 I'm so impressed. I was so very happy just to pass "Silver Ears". "MP3 Artefacts" seemed insurmountable at first so when I finally made it I felt like scoring in a final. Well, this is hardly the most important thing you can do in life but nevertheless. Congratulations!


----------



## Alessandro1

Thanks Aero Dynamic


----------



## Clemmaster

aero dynamik said:


> I think it is good advice. I can now pretty well identify 96 Kbps and to some extent, 112 Kbps, but it still feels more or less impossible at 128 Kbps. My hope is that it actually is mostly about training, but I am far from sure that it's enough. It is easy to become exhausted and when that happens, nothing works. Additionally my tinnitus increases when I get pissed.


 
  
 A piano track would have been so much easier to notice the difference...
  
 I focused on the hi-hat, personally.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

clemmaster said:


> aero dynamik said:
> 
> 
> > I think it is good advice. I can now pretty well identify 96 Kbps and to some extent, 112 Kbps, but it still feels more or less impossible at 128 Kbps. My hope is that it actually is mostly about training, but I am far from sure that it's enough. It is easy to become exhausted and when that happens, nothing works. Additionally my tinnitus increases when I get pissed.
> ...


 
 I was eventually able to nail it (Silver Ears level - Details - MP3 Arefacts) and felt extremely happy once I did. Initially I thought I’d never make it, and I really didn’t think training would help either as I’ve been listening critically to music and different headphones for several years. However, to my big surprise training does seem to help. So, to anyone reading this being stuck, my advice is to keep listening, and when you do get tired take a break and come back later. If you keep listening your listening skills will improve even though you may not think so. I should add that I suffer from tinnitus but (with quite a bit of training) was still able to nail it.

 I think I focused mainly on the voice and the bass. The bass seemed more or less constant and so helped to contrast the voice which would have an ever so slightly brighter presentation in the low mid-range with more MP3 artefacts. Yes, perhaps a piano would have been a better example in this challenge. It would have been nice to be able to choose from a few different examples. Perhaps something that can be suggested to Philips!


----------



## ferday

aero dynamik said:


> I think I focused mainly on the voice and the bass. The bass seemed more or less constant and so helped to contrast the voice which would have an ever so slightly brighter presentation in the low mid-range with more MP3 artefacts. Yes, perhaps a piano would have been a better example in this challenge. It would have been nice to be able to choose from a few different examples. Perhaps something that can be suggested to Philips!


 
  
 part of critical listening training is to not be genre dependent.  a piano section may or may not have helped me; i don't listen to much classical. it was the voice that i finally figured out to listen to....which shows that training in fact works!


----------



## AlanHell

I think the hardest for me is the boost and cut-off detection test that you have to remember the sound signature of all the distortions.
  
 Personally, mp3 is very hard initially but not hard after you know what you are looking for. I think I cheated with my equipment by using an high quality balance DAC + HDVD800 + HD800 and T1. I was trying to finish the test on my friend's HD650 and didn't get very far from Silver. The high frequency extension is very very hard to tell on that phone.
  
 P.S.
 Most of time I just pick the sound that sounded different than the other 2. It is easier that way.


----------



## Clemmaster

Boost and cut-off was the hardest for me, by far.
 The rest is very easy.
  
 Even frequency extension was child's play with RE-262 (which are clearly not the most extended, to both ends).
 The final quizz was an summary of the easiest tests, which makes for a pleasant finish


----------



## Jupiterknight

Finally got around finishing it.. Took a few days break and changed my personality..


----------



## FraGGleR

I finally made it through.  Got up to bitrate on Silver without creating a profile then decided maybe I should.  Well my assumption that it would save where I was while I signed up was very wrong.  Had to work my way back up.  Bitrate was easily the hardest, but taking a break and really focusing on the high hats and the voices enabled me to go through.  The EQ challenge was obnoxious simply because I had to spend some time memorizing the different sounds.  Almost everything else was pretty easy using my HD800s.  I'm almost sad I made it to Golden Ears, because now I can't just sell everything and be happy with some $50 headphones and 128kbps mp3s.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

ferday said:


> aero dynamik said:
> 
> 
> > I think I focused mainly on the voice and the bass. The bass seemed more or less constant and so helped to contrast the voice which would have an ever so slightly brighter presentation in the low mid-range with more MP3 artefacts. Yes, perhaps a piano would have been a better example in this challenge. It would have been nice to be able to choose from a few different examples. Perhaps something that can be suggested to Philips!
> ...


 
 Indeed!


----------



## AlanHell

Does any one know the song name used for the space and sound stage test?
 I love that recording!


----------



## mrmagoo

I finally completed it after several days.
  

  
 The frequency bands cut or boost were, by far, the most difficult test for me.
 The tests were done with my HD580 and my acer laptop (and slow internet)


----------



## Aero Dynamik

mrmagoo said:


> I finally completed it after several days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sweet! Congratulations! Am still struggling with "the frequency bands cut/boost".


----------



## roguegeek

mrmagoo said:


> The frequency bands cut or boost were, by far, the most difficult test for me.
> The tests were done with my HD580 and my acer laptop (and slow internet)


 
 Yeah. By far, that was the hardest section for me.


----------



## Jupiterknight

aero dynamik said:


> Sweet! Congratulations! Am still struggling with "the frequency bands cut/boost".


 
 Try to use different IEM's/headphones with "the freq. band test". I had used Etymotic HF5/ER4-S throughout the whole test but felt that they didn't quite "cut" it with this particular test so I switched to a a pair of RE262 and I think that helped added with some more practice..


----------



## mrmagoo

aero dynamik said:


> Sweet! Congratulations! Am still struggling with "the frequency bands cut/boost".


 
 For me, despite that I could clearly hear the differences, my problem was identifying the frequencies. Easy to hear if it's a boost or a cut but the only way that I found in order to learn how to identify the freq was to practice training for some time until I had the most difficult frequencies for me memorized, and then tried the test again.
 I had no problem with the very low or high freq, but the rest of the band sure needs some intensive training.
 I think I must have spent 1 to 2 hours before succeeding at this test, so don't give up, and my advice is practice training until you have memorized the less obvious frequencies (for me it was principally 1, 2 4 and 8kHz).
 Don't know if that makes sense... sorry for my poor english...


----------



## Clemmaster

mrmagoo said:


> For me, despite that I could clearly hear the differences, my problem was identifying the frequencies. Easy to hear if it's a boost or a cut but the only way that I found in order to learn how to identify the freq was to practice training for some time until I had the most difficult frequencies for me memorized, and then tried the test again.
> I had no problem with the very low or high freq, but the rest of the band sure needs some intensive training.
> I think I must have spent 1 to 2 hours before succeeding at this test, so don't give up, and my advice is practice training until you have memorized the less obvious frequencies (for me it was principally 1, 2 4 and 8kHz).
> Don't know if that makes sense... sorry for my poor english...


 
 That makes perfect sense.
 As you said, identifying a boost or cut is very easy. The extreme frequencies are straightforward as well.
  
 Identifying the other audio bands, indeed, requires some training (save for perfect-pitch people) and is more a matter of experience than hearing acuity. It is a general requirement for Golden ears, though.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

jupiterknight said:


> aero dynamik said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet! Congratulations! Am still struggling with "the frequency bands cut/boost".
> ...


 
 Switched between my Etymotic ER-4S and my AKG K3003i with reference filters and finally made it all the way! I now got my Golden Ears!


----------



## Aero Dynamik

mrmagoo said:


> aero dynamik said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet! Congratulations! Am still struggling with "the frequency bands cut/boost".
> ...


 
 It makes perfect sense and may even have contributed to me finally getting my Golden Ears!
 Not being English speaking myself I can’t judge your English, but anyway it looks impeccable to me.


----------



## Jupiterknight

aero dynamik said:


> Switched between my Etymotic ER-4S and my AKG K3003i with reference filters and finally made it all the way! I now got my Golden Ears!


 
 Congratz, now you're ready to take off..


----------



## Aero Dynamik

Thanks Jupiterknight, I'm already flying!


----------



## Hubert481

Did Tyll already finish the goldeneartest?
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/audiophile-workout-philips-golden-ears-training
I wonder, that he did not mention it. It should be easy for people who hear tiny differences.


----------



## Jupiterknight

aero dynamik said:


> Thanks Jupiterknight, I'm already flying!


 
 Just don't fly with SAS when using your Golden Ears because they will screw up your perspective of timbre and you will pay the price..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Stick with SJ.."Ground control to Major Tom" Citing David Bowie..
  
 Anyhow, I personal believe that the Golden Ears challenge was to a certain degree a time consuming/frustrating/fun challenge to me at least and along the way I picked up my own weakness and strength related to how I focus/judge/perceive/analyze/enjoy music. Wow, I learned something..
  
 Simple or cheap as it gets. I encourage all members of this forum to go through this test and "Show Me The Result' and I sincerely promise that I will stop quoting Tom Cruise..


----------



## Ultrainferno

hubert481 said:


> Did Tyll already finish the goldeneartest?
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/audiophile-workout-philips-golden-ears-training
> I wonder, that he did not mention it. It should be easy for people who hear tiny differences.


 
  
 I would expect him to finish Gold "easily" seeing they're reviewers but I haven't read anything either. The guys at Headfonia finished Gold as far as I know, no news from Jude.


----------



## mrmagoo

aero dynamik said:


> It makes perfect sense and may even have contributed to me finally getting my Golden Ears!
> Not being English speaking myself I can’t judge your English, but anyway it looks impeccable to me.


 

 Great! Congratulations!
 This test was very interesting for me because I learned many things, and now I am confident that I could hear the differences between 2 different headphone amps for example (if there are differences of course)...


----------



## Aero Dynamik

jupiterknight said:


> aero dynamik said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Jupiterknight, I'm already flying!
> ...


 
 Wow, you know about ”Scandinavian Airlines” (SAS) and ”Statens Järnvägar” (SJ)! Guess DK in you location tag stands for Denmark!?

 Yes, the Golden Ears challenge is educational and I’d recommend it to anyone who’s into sound. I'm really happy I took myself the time to finish it.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

mrmagoo said:


> aero dynamik said:
> 
> 
> > It makes perfect sense and may even have contributed to me finally getting my Golden Ears!
> ...


 
 Thank you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After the "MP3 Artefacts" challenge on the silver level I learned to take it easy - to relax and just listen - and I have now realised it's (mostly) a matter of training. There seems to be nothing wrong with my hearing despite my rather old age (can only hear a sinus tone up to about 11 kHz) and tinnitus. I was mostly frustrated to suspect there might be something wrong with my hearing. So, pretty big sigh of relief! I really dislike my tinnitus, but this exercise has taught me it doesn’t really affect my ability to hear external sounds, and so has made me less disturbed by it which is a pretty pleasant side-effect, to say the least.

 Like for you it has also boosted my hearing confidence. So, if I can’t hear any difference between two amplifiers I now know for sure it could very well be because there actually isn’t any (substantial) difference.


----------



## mrmagoo

aero dynamik said:


> Thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Exactly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... if fact I'm ready to spend some money on a headphone amp for my HD580, BUT only if I am 100% sure that I will notice a better sound quality. Completing this test and doing the training sure will contribute to help me decide more easily if it's worth._ (I have started a thread about A/B comparison tests and switch boxes... here.)_


----------



## Aero Dynamik

ultrainferno said:


> hubert481 said:
> 
> 
> > Did Tyll already finish the goldeneartest?
> ...


 
 I don’t think we should demand that people like Jude and Tyll (or anyone else for that matter) must pass the Golden Ears challenge to prove their right to be reviewers and/or have opinions about audio gear. First of all it would be wrong principally and secondly even if they were unable to pass it they still have so much experience comparing so many different headphones and other gear that their opinions still matter.
  
 If I had been unable to pass it – and mind you, for a while I was sure I was never going to be able to pass the “MP3 Artefacts” challenge on the Silver Ears level – I would still have allowed myself to continue with this hobby, which I love, and continue to have opinions about different headphones, gear, and software.

 Now that said, if I were a Jude, Tyll, “average joe”, “ljokerl”, etc., I personally would never pass up the chance to prove my listening skills publically to increase people's confidence in my reviews. I think Tyll expresses a very humble and encouraging attitude that reinforces my confidence in him, and I'm actually quite confident that he could do it if he took the time. See below quotes by Tyll:

_“The third test was Details and asked me to identify MP3 artifacts. I've often commented that 320kbs MP3s are very good and it's hard to tell the difference between it and 44.1/16 files. Well, let's just say I got totally stuck at this point in the test.” – by Tyll_

_“Maybe I'd just been at it too long this morning, but I gave up. I'll have to give it another go tomorrow...but I'm gonna do it. You know why? Because it's never too late to improve ones listening skills!” – by Tyll_


----------



## Aero Dynamik

mrmagoo said:


> aero dynamik said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you!
> ...


 
 Superb initiative, and thanks for the link. I will follow the thread with huge interest.


----------



## Ultrainferno

aero dynamik said:


> I don’t think we should demand that people like Jude and Tyll (or anyone else for that matter) must pass the Golden Ears challenge to prove their right to be reviewers and/or have opinions about audio gear. First of all it would be wrong principally and secondly even if they were unable to pass it they still have so much experience comparing so many different headphones and other gear that their opinions still matter.
> 
> If I had been unable to pass it – and mind you, for a while I was sure I was never going to be able to pass the “MP3 Artefacts” challenge on the Silver Ears level – I would still have allowed myself to continue with this hobby, which I love, and continue to have opinions about different headphones, gear, and software.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I do agree with you but at the same time I would be worried if they didn't pass it.


----------



## Clemmaster

Difference in DAC or amp is much more dramatic than this mp3 test anyway.


----------



## AlanHell

Personally I think every health man can pass this test.
 It just whether or not you are willing to take the time to train your self.
 It is very often that people do not know what they are looking for, hence make the test very hard to pass initially.
 However, once they know where to focus, most of the test will be very trivial.
  
 P.S.
 I saw a lot of people manage to pass the test with sources that has very high distortions and very limited dynamic range (laptop sound card, very cheap ear bugs). I think some times it is actually much easier to do the test in those gears compare to a system the has a very linear FR. I have done some test with my laptop and my cheap sony headphones, and find it is sometimes like cheating. Lots of changes in the track has been transformed into a SPL change in general which is very easy to be picked out. Tests like cut off and boost in different frequency can be easily understand as change in volume in different samples. mp3 test has also become easier because the laptop sound card automatically eq the sound and makes the sound difference pretty easy to spot.
 However, all these has nothing to do with what we really want. Tell difference between to distorted sound sample tells us nothing. Learning how to differentiate different sound quality is the key for use to identify good/bad equipment when we audition them in store.


----------



## Hubert481

>>Learning how to differentiate different sound quality is the key for use to identify good/bad equipment when we audition them in store.

Yes, but therefore, you ears should be able to hear also high frequencies and minimal differences.
The goldenears test is an indicator therefore.

It is a type of qualification to hear differences.

I cannot understand, if you hear differences between loudspeakercables but cannot pass this very easy test.


----------



## Jupiterknight

alanhell said:


> *Personally I think every health man can pass this test*.
> It just whether or not you are willing to take the time to train your self.
> It is very often that people do not know what they are looking for, hence make the test very hard to pass initially.
> However, once they know where to focus, most of the test will be very trivial.
> ...


 
  
 Sorry, I'm completely aware of that I lack any kind of health and I have been discarded by plenty of professionals who initially expressed that they could treat me, not mentioning all the time I spend in rehab and multiple of meetings.. Okay, I might be messing around, who knows..ask my wife, except not possible since she doesn't carry a HF membership!  But I just don't really think that you need to be truly healthy or at any given age to complete the test, unless we have different perception of what healthy actually means? Otherwise, I don't quite get your cheating point or how my laptop EQ's the sound so I can pass this test..
  
 Okay, I basically passed this test because of my laptop helped me discarded how unhealthy I am!  So what if I pass the test using my speaker system and at the same time being completely drunk, who helped me then? The store that sold me the beer..or the medieval monasteries who started mass producing beer?


----------



## jude

I posted it on Facebook, too:
  

  
 I visited Philips' audio R&D facility last year with Tyll and Mike Ting (Headfonia), and we were given a little taste of Philips' internal Golden Ears testing--I think they're being a bit more lenient with this public version.
  
 Rig used: Apple iMac-->Chord Electronics Hugo-->Sennheiser HD 800 (wired with Moon Audio Black Dragon)


----------



## BB 808

> Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congratulations Jude!


----------



## Aero Dynamik

Congratulations Jude, glad you made it! Now we're waiting for the rest of the famous Head-Fi reviewers to pass! (Don't feel any pressure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Aero Dynamik

jude said:


> I posted it on Facebook, too:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 So did you try their "private" version and did you pass it as well? Can you ask them if there's some way we (Head-Fi:ers) can get access to their private version? Thanks!


----------



## jude

aero dynamik said:


> So did you try their "private" version and did you pass it as well? Can you ask them if there's some way we (Head-Fi:ers) can get access to their private version? Thanks!



 
At their lab, we just tried a couple questions from it, and maybe my perception of it as maybe more hardcore was due to the fact that it wasn't as neatly packaged as this public version. Come to think of it, the ones we sampled were rather a lot like the public version's MP3 artifacts learning and testing, and the Gold Level timbre test (the second part of it).
 
I just re-read an email from Philips' Rowan Williams introducing me to the public version, and here's something he said about it (emphasis by me):
 


> ...*The higher levels will test experienced listeners and contain the same principal elements as our own internal program. *No doubt you’ll breeze through the early levels (you can skip basic and go straight to bronze), but I think when you get to the silver and gold levels you’ll find some challenging tests that I hope you’ll enjoy playing with...



 
Again, perhaps my perception is due mostly to how polished the presentation of this public version is.
 
By the way, the first time I went through it was without creating a profile, so I decided to do it a second time with a login profile (so that I could save the results). The second time I went through it I changed headphones from the Sennheiser HD 800 to the Audeze LCD-X to see if it would alter the experience at all--it turns out that (for me) neither presented any overall advantage over the other. Over time, I'm going to play around with some of these Golden Ears tests with other amps and DACs and other headphones (over-ear and in-ear), just out of curiosity.
 
Anyway, for those who haven't taken it, do give it a go. In addition to being a nice learning experience and challenge, it's also fun.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Jude. Rowan did mention they have a platinum version for them internally


----------



## Aero Dynamik

ultrainferno said:


> Jude. Rowan did mention they have a platinum version for them internally


 
_*P L A T I N U M*_  version!!!??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh no! It'll drive me crazy if they publish it. I'm still enjoying my - oh so sweet - "Golden Ears" victory.


----------



## El_Doug

ugh... decided to make a login since I was tired after reaching half way through silver, and wanted to continue tomorrow... 
  
 of course, it starts you at the beginning!!!  I don't know how much more Claude Pelouse I can handle


----------



## Aero Dynamik

el_doug said:


> ugh... decided to make a login since I was tired after reaching half way through silver, and wanted to continue tomorrow...
> 
> of course, it starts you at the beginning!!!  *I don't know how much more Claude Pelouse I can handle*


 
 Hang in there, you can make it!


----------



## Aero Dynamik

jude said:


> aero dynamik said:
> 
> 
> > So did you try their "private" version and did you pass it as well? Can you ask them if there's some way we (Head-Fi:ers) can get access to their private version? Thanks!
> ...


 
 Maybe that goes to show that between TOTL headphones the technical differences are so very small that it’s basically just a matter of what sound signature you prefer and are used to. I’m an IEM guy myself and was initially convinced the best phone for the job would be the Etymotic ER-4S, but as it turned out I preferred the AKG K3003i with its reference filters. The Etymotic ER-4S is a tad more resolving but the fact that I (for now) prefer the overall sound signature of the K3003i made the experience a little more pleasant and possibly therefore also a bit easier. So, with two phones more or less technically equal it probably doesn’t matter which one you use. However, as someone suggested in this thread, switching between various headphones could possibly be helpful and also quite interesting.
  
 When I was new to this hobby I would’ve loved this tool if it had been presented as a “training tool” for “audiophile wannabes”. Why not announce it (perhaps even permanently) on the Head-Fi homepage?! I’m sure many are still unaware of it and probably would have much fun with it while learning terminology and training their hearing. I’m sure it would promote this wonderful hobby.


----------



## dany111777

With the AKG K77 straight out of the PC, I can't get past the 50 Hz cut in Golden Bass. Others weren't that hard. Maybe a different gear (or different ear?).


----------



## Jupiterknight

jude said:


> I posted it on Facebook, too:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congratz.. No doubt from my side that you would pass this test..and I'm sure that you also could have done it with a less expensive setup 
  
 I have not too many doubts about that this particular Golden Ear test is presented/directed towards a specific purpose/collection of data from their side (Phillips). Although this does certainly not rule out that this particular test is irrelevant for this community or beyond this. Absolutely not.. I learned significant things about how I listen to music, tweaked my focus and can use this test for other gears as well as others should do. Although in the long run I will just stick with enjoying music vs analyzing what my ears are presented to...
  
 Anyway, so when is the Phiilps's Diamond Ear test coming up since you have been given a little taste of this?  Please, ask them about this... I personally learn more from failing than being successful since failure creates a true realism that I can adjust to or just be depressed or/and ignore it..


----------



## dany111777

Made with AKG K77 straight out of the onboard audio card. Hardest parts were mp3 128kbps and the 50 Hz bass extension. But we got there.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

dany111777 said:


> Made with AKG K77 straight out of the onboard audio card. Hardest parts were mp3 128kbps and the 50 Hz bass extension. But we got there.


 
 Brilliant! Congratulations and welcome to the club!


----------



## pwiles1968

Stupid thing does not remember your progress unless you create a password before you start 




  
 Have to start again now.


----------



## Ultrainferno

That has only been mentioned like each time on here, Headfonia and Innerfidelity


----------



## pwiles1968

Done 93% - everything except the frequency band test now, being dyslexic really does not help with that one I easily hear the difference and know roughly where it is if it is a boost or cut, but can not pinpoint exactly where it is, always had that problem with this sort of thing,  will try it again when I'm fresh .


----------



## TJ Max

I passed the basic part of this Challenge a few days ago. But I just realized that you all are using Headphones. I was listening straight from my speakers, is there a difference?


----------



## Ultrainferno

It is a headphone test. good luck doing this on speakers


----------



## TJ Max

Whoops. I must have missed those instructions.


----------



## AlanHell

hope you have very very good speakers.


----------



## pwiles1968

I used my speakers for 1 of the tests, 50Hz filter 
  
 I think it would be a good test of speakers.


----------



## kraken2109

ultrainferno said:


> It is a headphone test. good luck doing this on speakers


 
 Where does it say it's a headphone test?


----------



## AbsoluteZero

alanhell said:


> hope you have very very good speakers.


 
  


tj max said:


> I passed the basic part of this Challenge a few days ago. But I just realized that you all are using Headphones. I was listening straight from my speakers, is there a difference?


 

 Nope, you don't have to have very very good speakers to finish this challenge.
  
 Believe it or not, I have finished up to most of the Golden Ears challenge with a cheap Logitech speaker under $100.
 I was looking for challenge when i started to to do this with speakers instead of headphones, but I'll try to do it with headphones after I'm done Golden Ears with speakers.


----------



## Jupiterknight

absolutezero said:


> Nope, you don't have to have very very good speakers to finish this challenge.
> 
> Believe it or not, I have finished up to most of the Golden Ears challenge with a cheap Logitech speaker under $100.
> I was looking for challenge when i started to to do this with speakers instead of headphones, but I'll try to do it with headphones after I'm done Golden Ears with speakers.


 
 I have absolutely no doubt that you will pass and then please come back when you have finished and tell us why


----------



## kraken2109

absolutezero said:


> Nope, you don't have to have very very good speakers to finish this challenge.
> 
> Believe it or not, I have finished up to most of the Golden Ears challenge with a cheap Logitech speaker under $100.
> I was looking for challenge when i started to to do this with speakers instead of headphones, but I'll try to do it with headphones after I'm done Golden Ears with speakers.


 

 How can you do the bass extension test which goes down to a 50hz roll off with cheap speakers? Generally logitech (or other 'computer speakers') won't even go that low.


----------



## AbsoluteZero

kraken2109 said:


> How can you do the bass extension test which goes down to a 50hz roll off with cheap speakers? Generally logitech (or other 'computer speakers') won't even go that low.


 

 Well, I did say I have finished up to most of Golden Ears and Bass Extension is exactly where I'm stuck. Maybe I do need a switch to headphones for this one.


----------



## ferday

I think I'll try it again on speakers and see if it's any harder or easier, just for fun!


----------



## Okamoto

Guys, in the spaciousness test on bronze ears(left/right balance test), did you notice any difference between right 2 and left 2 in terms of volume and tonal balance?

 I'm afraid I'm experiencing channel imbalance with my HE-500.


----------



## ferday

okamoto said:


> Guys, in the spaciousness test on bronze ears(left/right balance test), did you notice any difference between right 2 and left 2 in terms of volume and tonal balance?
> 
> 
> I'm afraid I'm experiencing channel imbalance with my HE-500.




It could be your ears! I know I have a slight 'channel imbalance' in my ears both volume and timbre/tone. Depending on the recording I sometimes use channel balance in software to even it out (it's slight, but there)


----------



## Okamoto

ferday said:


> It could be your ears! I know I have a slight 'channel imbalance' in my ears both volume and timbre/tone. Depending on the recording I sometimes use channel balance in software to even it out (it's slight, but there)


 

 I tried switching the sides and it followed the driver. However, I tried with my other headphones and it seems the issue persists. Maybe it's my amp and/or DAC?


----------



## ferday

Doubtful it's the DAC, but many amps have channel imbalance at low volumes. My magni does, but it's lower than I normally listen at


----------



## Okamoto

Seems it's not the amp either. Switched to Mjolnir and the "issue" persists. Since it happens with my other phones too, could it be it's just the recording? Can anyone confirm this to me?

 Right side just sounds lower quality to me, besides being quieter.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

ferday said:


> okamoto said:
> 
> 
> > Guys, in the spaciousness test on bronze ears(left/right balance test), did you notice any difference between right 2 and left 2 in terms of volume and tonal balance?
> ...


 
 I do suffer from this myself, so if you could tell me more specifically about what software you use I would really appreciate it. Thanks!


----------



## ferday

aero dynamik said:


> I do suffer from this myself, so if you could tell me more specifically about what software you use I would really appreciate it. Thanks!




I use JRiver (parametric EQ, volume adjust).


----------



## Aero Dynamik

okamoto said:


> Seems it's not the amp either. Switched to Mjolnir and the "issue" persists. Since it happens with my other phones too, could it be it's just the recording? Can anyone confirm this to me?
> 
> _*Right side just sounds lower quality to me, besides being quieter.*_


 
 I think I can hear it too, but I suspect my own hearing (FitEar ToGo 334 + CEntrance DACport)... despite passing "Golden Ears". Why not drop an e-mail to them (there's an e-mail address on the "Golden Ears" site) and ask them about it?


----------



## Occy

I got through the basic section on my sh!tty work PC running audio through a set of $18 logitech PC speakers with only 2 incorrect answers 
  
 Will try again when i get time at home running it through my STX/Intruder/HE-400.


----------



## abhinit90

Am I the only one who gets the ever-loading "Loading audio files" message?
  
 Have tried 3 different browsers


----------



## Hutnicks

abhinit90 said:


> Am I the only one who gets the ever-loading "Loading audio files" message?
> 
> Have tried 3 different browsers


 

 Same here. No idea what the problem is.


----------



## GrindingThud

It only worked for me after installing the latest version of Firefox


----------



## Hutnicks

grindingthud said:


> It only worked for me after installing the latest version of Firefox


 

 I did that and still get the perpetual "Loading" message.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

hutnicks said:


> grindingthud said:
> 
> 
> > It only worked for me after installing the latest version of Firefox
> ...


 
 Guess you've already tried it, but did you empty all history, cache, etc? Usually works for me for all sorts of strange broweser problems. Good luck!


----------



## subver

The only one in the Golden Ear test I can't get past is that frequency band part!
 I will need to read up and understand it better I think. I got everything else though.


----------



## thesuperguy

Wow the frequency band part on golden ears is less a gauge for being able to detect subtleties and more a memorization fest... All the different cut-offs/boosts are easily distinguishable from each other, and the normal version - til you have to name the exact band.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

subver said:


> The only one in the Golden Ear test I can't get past is that frequency band part!
> I will need to read up and understand it better I think. I got everything else though.


 
 You'll make it; it's "only" a matter of training! "Frequency band" and "MP3 Artefacts" have definitely proved to be the most difficult challenges for most people.


----------



## subver

aero dynamik said:


> You'll make it; it's "only" a matter of training! "Frequency band" and "MP3 Artefacts" have definitely proved to be the most difficult challenges for most people.




Thanks, yeah I will keep listening and learning. Are there more resources out there to learn how to determine which frequency band is boosted or cut?
And yeah I also had a little trouble with the mp3 artifacts but managed to get through it ok.. The frequency bands seem to be the killer for me!


----------



## Aero Dynamik

subver said:


> aero dynamik said:
> 
> 
> > You'll make it; it's "only" a matter of training! "Frequency band" and "MP3 Artefacts" have definitely proved to be the most difficult challenges for most people.
> ...


 
 Not that I'm aware of I'm afraid. I considered using the EQ in Media Center 18 for practice but eventually felt the training you can have directly on their site is the most convenient.
  
 I felt exactly the same way initially, but with a bit of practice (quite a lot actually) I finally nailed it, and I'm sure you'll eventually nail it as well. Just keep going, and when you get (really) tired, take a break and come back later.
  
 Good luck, and remember to announce your victory once you've gotten your Golden Ears! I (and many other Head-Fi:ers I hope) will be there to congratulate you!


----------



## Okamoto

aero dynamik said:


> I think I can hear it too, but I suspect my own hearing (FitEar ToGo 334 + CEntrance DACport)... despite passing "Golden Ears". Why not drop an e-mail to them (there's an e-mail address on the "Golden Ears" site) and ask them about it?


 


 I confirmed that I have hearing imbalances too. It was not the recording


----------



## subver

Definitely getting better at these frequency bands - The hardest ones for me are 8k and 16k - I'm having a hard time distinguishing those - the others I can get most of the time, though!
 I hate to win through guessing on those ones (if I even can!!), so hopefully the more I do this the more I can distinguish!


----------



## wakibaki

Stuck here:-
  

  
 I'd really like to get this. I'm 62 years old.
  
 w


----------



## Aero Dynamik

wakibaki said:


> Stuck here:-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Compared to you I'm really young, 10 years younger to be precise! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Can't hear sinus tones above about 11 kHz but somehow managed to nail it nevertheless, but I oh yes, it was a tough challenge.
  
 Don't know how come, but even when I change the 16 kHz bar EQ in JRiver Media Center, I can still hear a faint difference. I wonder why. Anyone?
  
 Anyway, hang in there, you'll make it!


----------



## subver

Whew, finally got through the frequency bands part, I got it!


----------



## Aero Dynamik

subver said:


> Whew, finally got through the frequency bands part, I got it!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 So you did it! Congratulations and welcome to the "Golden Ears" club!


----------



## thesuperguy

Whew...


----------



## ThePianoMan

So, I'm coming at this from the perspective of a musician (been training since age 4 and training as a musician at university right now... also grew up on a pair of Vandersteen 3a sigs) and I managed to get through the golden ears on a pair of Audioengine A2s.  The difference between the high quality lossless and 44khz files probably gave me the biggest trouble.  I compared notes with my father who is an audiophile but has had next to no musical training, and he struggled much more on the timbre and equalization tests than I did.  Strangely, I tend to be more ok with colored and less-than-flat gear than he is.  Weird.  Cool test though; showed it some friends of mine.  The non musicians did better than I expected - goes to show that even the average listener can pick out good or bad sound!


----------



## thesuperguy

I too am a musician (well I play an instrument so I guess that counts) and I also went through the timbre tests with relative ease. I couldn't necessarily point out the specific defects of the songs but something always sounded a bit off. Strangely though, I didn't find the mp3 tests as difficult as many others here. Like with the timbre tests, something just sounded a bit off in comparison to the other 2 samples which is how I found them, though I might have just been lucky because there were only 4 questions to pass and the first 2 instances were very easy anyways. I actually had the most mistakes in the golden ears bass quantity part most likely because my earphones go a bit light on the bass.


----------



## abhinit90

So I'm stuck on Reverberation, any pointers?


----------



## Occy

Getting smashed by the frequency boost/cut section in the Golden level. :-/
 I can get 2 or 3 right, then I fail a bunch and it sends me back to the start of the challenge


----------



## subver

occy said:


> Getting smashed by the frequency boost/cut section in the Golden level. :-/
> I can get 2 or 3 right, then I fail a bunch and it sends me back to the start of the challenge


 
 Yeah that part was incredibly hard. After a while, though, things start to click.
 For me it basically came down to the 8k and 16k cuts - those ones were the hardest for me to distinguish!


----------



## Aero Dynamik

abhinit90 said:


> So I'm stuck on Reverberation, any pointers?


 
 Hm... Perhaps try to picture some walls, and if you can hear any sound bouncing back. Imagine the extremes first. Reverberation in a typical European stone church is extreme. Reverberation outdoors is... extremely non-existent... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Good luck!


----------



## subver

Yeah I think with the reverberation I found it easier to hear when listening to something like the cymbals - There is a part in the song that makes it pretty easy to tell, there is a series of cymbal hits and they all kind of bleed into one another with the reverberation on.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

subver said:


> Yeah I think with the reverberation I found it easier to hear when listening to something like the cymbals - There is a part in the song that makes it pretty easy to tell, there is a series of cymbal hits and they all kind of bleed into one another with the reverberation on.


 
 X2. Seems like a much better advice than mine!


----------



## AbsoluteZero

(image missing)

  
  
 Finally... Gave up using cheap speakers on the Bass Extension and went for my Mad Dog + Glacier and I breezed it no problem.


----------



## Airlight

Fun test, thanks for posting it.
  
 http://imgur.com/K0rYhtu


----------



## Aero Dynamik

wakibaki said:


> Stuck here:-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Tried this again. However, this time around, and to my surprise, the “Treble Cut-off frequency” challenge seems absolutely impossible. I can identify the first cut-off at 8.5 kHz, but the second step at 9 kHz is a “brick wall”. It would seem I’ve lost some of my treble hearing ability. It could be age, or it could be I’ve had a bad cold for almost a moth. For some reason I expect age. Anyway, I’ll give it another try once I feel perfectly healthy again. It does bother me.


----------



## kraken2109

aero dynamik said:


> Tried this again. However, this time around, and to my surprise, the “Treble Cut-off frequency” challenge seems absolutely impossible. I can identify the first cut-off at 8.5 kHz, but the second step at 9 kHz is a “brick wall”. It would seem I’ve lost some of my treble hearing ability. It could be age, or it could be I’ve had a bad cold for almost a moth. For some reason I expect age. Anyway, I’ll give it another try once I feel perfectly healthy again. It does bother me.


 
 Having a cold can very easily mess up your ears.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

kraken2109 said:


> aero dynamik said:
> 
> 
> > Tried this again. However, this time around, and to my surprise, the “Treble Cut-off frequency” challenge seems absolutely impossible. I can identify the first cut-off at 8.5 kHz, but the second step at 9 kHz is a “brick wall”. It would seem I’ve lost some of my treble hearing ability. It could be age, or it could be I’ve had a bad cold for almost a moth. For some reason I expect age. Anyway, I’ll give it another try once I feel perfectly healthy again. It does bother me.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the encouragement and I hope you're right. My cold is on its way to slow and when I tried today I passed the 8.5, 9 and 10 kHz a couple of times, but at 11 kHz it was a grinding halt. Like I said I'll try again when I am fully recovered, but I actually have no great hope of success because I can not actually hear sine waves above about 11 kHz, which is age-related. I really wonder how I did this a month ago. I can not recall that I then thought it was particularly difficult. Well, maybe it's the cold after all. I'm hoping for it!


----------



## wjellybelly

I'm using my beyerdynamic dt990 pro and fiio e6 amp and I can't get past silver mp3 artifacts. They said look or tremolo effects or high-hats. Searched on google but didn't get much help. Any advice?


----------



## laon

Focus on high specifically the cymbals, it sounds a bit tizzly on MP3.

Stuck on golden timbre, I could hear the difference clearly but I can't remember which is which. Getting there though, it's the only test left before finishing golden ears.



(I could cheat this by opening two browser but I won't, where's the fun in that?)


----------



## Ultrainferno

laon said:


> (I could cheat this by opening two browser but I won't, where's the fun in that?)


 
  
 I think a lot of golden ears did that


----------



## kraken2109

wjellybelly said:


> I'm using my beyerdynamic dt990 pro and fiio e6 amp and I can't get past silver mp3 artifacts. They said look or tremolo effects or high-hats. Searched on google but didn't get much help. Any advice?


 
 Strangely I found I did better when I wasn't focusing really hard. I also found that my immediate impression was generally right, and listening/thinking too hard just made me doubt myself.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

wjellybelly said:


> I'm using my beyerdynamic dt990 pro and fiio e6 amp and I can't get past silver mp3 artifacts. They said look or tremolo effects or high-hats. Searched on google but didn't get much help. Any advice?


 
 I had tremendous difficulties with this challenge the first time around. When I tried it again a month later I passed without any real trouble. I wouldn't go as far as to say I now found it easy, but it was no longer dificult either.
  
 I focused on the singer, and found out that (in my case) the most "clear" (best 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) sounding voice was the one with artefacts. As long as there's nothing wrong with your hearing I'm convinced it's just a matter of learning what to listen for. It may take some time, but just hang in there and you'll eventually make it.


----------



## wjellybelly

For anyone who is having difficulty with reverberation, here is what worked for me. I just used my iPhone stock speakers. Reverberated sound kinda sounds like the sound was trapped in my phone and echoed inside, while direct sound sounded clearer. I know it sounds ridiculous to be using the stock speakers on my phone but hey it worked .


----------



## wjellybelly

Actually now that I think of it I think the whole thing is easier with speakers lol.


----------



## florianardelean

wjellybelly said:


> I'm using my beyerdynamic dt990 pro and fiio e6 amp and I can't get past silver mp3 artifacts. They said look or tremolo effects or high-hats. Searched on google but didn't get much help. Any advice?


 
 Hi, 
  
 For me also, this was the hardest part, I'm using Sennheisser HD280 stock and a Sound Devices HX-3 amp. I could get it all the way to 112 kbps by just hearing the artifacts (the watery chirpy sounds in the background), but above 128 kbps I couldn't hear them anymore, even if I turned the volume up. Eventually I closed my eyes and really focused on the voice, not sure how to put this into words but I found the best quality by paying extreme attention to the "edges" of the words, there is a lot less definition in the compressed version, like the "edge" of the sound is blurry, the mid-bass blends blurrily into the noise floor at 128kbps, as opposed to the crisp definition in the higher quality reference. My guess is that it would have been much harder to spot at 160kbps. I wonder though, if the reference is a PCM wav or just another lossy compression (albeit at a higher bit rate)
  
 I actually went through each level in about an hour, doing the basic level on an Ipad 4 with the hd280, had a little trouble with the bass extension, but everything became clear bass-wise when I plugged my headphone amp into the laptop (using the laptop's internal sound card), so I did the remaining 3 stages in this setup.
  
 Apart from the mp3 tests, my headphones are really lacking at soundstage so stereo width gave me a bit of trouble and the timbre in the last section also required some learning.
  
 Overall I found the tests entretaining and I feel like they will be of real use to me, I will send them to all my clients before we start mixing 
  
 About the reverberation part - I really hated that they stated that the reference was direct sound, with no reverberation. This is simply not true. The violin had a small-room reverberation to it most likely originating in the recording itself...  the double-bass as well (different kind of reverb actually, a larger room), and the accordion had a large reverb to it also. The only dry sound was the rythm guitar strum, which plays an edifying strum in at about a third of the song.


----------



## wjellybelly

641st person to finish it.  Finished it a few days ago.  I got stuck on High Frequency extension for a while.


----------



## Vartan

all ready done


----------



## jonyoo

Yay! Golden Ears! Man the frequency band section! I went back to that section just because it was the hardest especially if they were mid boosts cuts. I am going to keep retaking the test until I can get through that section without getting anything wrong once. Must train harder!


----------



## Tarnum

Completed this test several months ago (before number 500) with cheap headphone Edifier H850 (50$) without amp. 
 Gear' sound quality or resolution is not so much critical. Skill and feeling also are important for this test.


----------



## davidsh

jonyoo said:


> Yay! Golden Ears! Man the frequency band section! I went back to that section just because it was the hardest especially if they were mid boosts cuts. I am going to keep retaking the test until I can get through that section without getting anything wrong once. Must train harder!


 
 True that, that one is very hard.
  
 I actually find the mp3 artifacts fairly easy, just completed it again (took 3-4 minutes). Up to 128 is easy. 128 can be recognised with a bit of effort if you focus hard on the vocals and their quality and naturalness, for me it helps closing my eyes.


----------



## gepardcv

Achievement unlocked.
  
 Frequency bands were the hardest, followed by reverberation, followed by bitrate.


----------



## maricius

Silver Ears!! Almost there haha


----------



## SilverEars

maricius said:


> Silver Ears!! Almost there haha


 
 Yes? You rang?


----------



## maricius

silverears said:


> Yes? You rang?


 
 DAMN IT. From the time I posted that up to now, I'm stuck on frequency bands… I've rather mastered the boosts but the cuts still elude me. It's 4:30AM over here…


----------



## maricius

Hi guys hehe 
  

  
 I believe I'm the 850th


----------



## Aero Dynamik

maricius said:


> Hi guys hehe
> 
> 
> 
> I believe I'm the 850th


 
 Congrats! It's a great feeling!


----------



## Blinxat

100%. I thought the bitrate tests, frequency bands, and some reverbs were rather hard! the rest was done in passing. Completed on the tiestos.
  
 next up the harman tool.


----------



## NeilPeart

I started this journey long ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I completed the Bronze and Silver sections during a lunch break; there were some tough spots but nothing too frustrating.  The rig I used was pretty bare bones:
  
 Foobar>M-Audio Transit at 24/44.1kHz>PIMETA w/OPA627 op-amps>ATH-M50
  
 When I got to the Gold section I could not get through the frequency band section - the mid-high frequency cuts were particularly challenging.  I took a long break from the madness.
  
 A few months later I fired up my home-office rig and gave it another shot: Benchmark DAC1-USB and Denon D7000s – what a difference.  There were still some struggles that made me want to try my Oppo BDP-105/Mjolnir/HD800 rig at times, but I got through it.
  
 Overall I would say there is a point where as long as the equipment is sufficiently resolving, the rest is just patience and training (and hearing health).  There were times where I would be so close to passing the frequency test, but then I would miss 4 in a row and have to start at the beginning. One valuable thing I learned is that frequency cuts were usually more subtle than boosts and harder to detect.  That is something I had heard from pro engineers for EQing, but not something I’d experienced myself.  This was a fun exercise and something I would recommend to audio-nerds, music-lovers and musicians alike.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

neilpeart said:


> I started this journey long ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well, you can say that again, and really an inspiration for those who're struggling! Well put!
  
 I know exactly what it feels like to miss 4 in a row, especially when there's just one remaining. Frustrating just doesn't cover it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, congrats, and welcome to the club!


----------



## chrwir

It's all about your ears.
 I completed the test with a pair of Koss Porta Pro through my laptop.
 It would have been easier with my equipment at home though


----------



## acme15

Completed it in about 90 minutes. 
  
 I got my first one wrong somewhere in the silver section, and I think I only got about 8 wrong overall. (Mostly in the frequency bands section, though I found that much easier when I closed my eyes)
  
 Used Fidelio X1's out of a Xonar Essence STX.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

acme15 said:


> Completed it in about 90 minutes.
> 
> I got my first one wrong somewhere in the silver section, and I think I only got about 8 wrong overall. (Mostly in the frequency bands section, though I found that much easier when I closed my eyes)
> 
> Used Fidelio X1's out of a Xonar Essence STX.


 
 Congrats! I would guess your first wrong came at the "MP3 Artefacts" challenge? It drove me crazy before I had enough training with it.


----------



## castleofargh

congrats on doing it in one go. to me that's the challenge right there, not that kiddy stuff about golden hears ^_^.
 I got bored soooo fast, and not being able to pass the easy stuff to go fight the final boss right away totally bummed me out. I don't even remember if I finished the bronze part, that was months ago, and I never found the motivation to go back in since(when I have the link bookmarked and see it all the time).
 I guess I'm a special lazy breed of puppy. still, doing that for 90mn is a serious willpower demonstration in my book. so congrat for that
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Ultrainferno

castleofargh said:


> congrats on doing it in one go. to me that's the challenge right there, not that kiddy stuff about golden hears ^_^.
> I got bored soooo fast, and not being able to pass the easy stuff to go fight the final boss right away totally bummed me out. I don't even remember if I finished the bronze part, that was months ago, and I never found the motivation to go back in since(when I have the link bookmarked and see it all the time).
> I guess I'm a special lazy breed of puppy. still, doing that for 90mn is a serious willpower demonstration in my book. so congrat for that
> 
> ...


 
  
 So basically you got frustrated for not being able to pass the _easy _stuff, yet you want to do the _hard _stuff?


----------



## castleofargh

ultrainferno said:


> castleofargh said:
> 
> 
> > congrats on doing it in one go. to me that's the challenge right there, not that kiddy stuff about golden hears ^_^.
> ...


 

 that's one way to misread my post yup.
 I have no doubt that the higher levels were more interesting/challenging, but the beginning felt like it was trying to check if I was a deaf bot or a very very old human. doing a few uber hard "I added +15DB somewhere, will you be able to notice it?", I got massively bored super fast. I tried to launch the higher level, saw I had to unlock it by doing all the super boring stuff first. and I just went "F it" (that's how I usually deal with boring stuff I'm not paid to do).
 so I wasn't ironic, I really wished I could have given a try at higher lvls, and I really am impressed by someone with enough motivation to go through it all in one go.


----------



## Dark_wizzie

I never managed to get Golden Ears. I was struggling the hardest at the lossy compression section. I never got past it. During the test I got the worst migraine of my life... and ever since I see the site I think of headaches.
  
 Silver Ears for me? Kindda?


----------



## Ultrainferno

"You don't win silver, you loose gold"


----------



## Aero Dynamik

dark_wizzie said:


> I never managed to get Golden Ears. I was struggling the hardest at the lossy compression section. I never got past it. During the test I got the worst migraine of my life... and ever since I see the site I think of headaches.
> 
> Silver Ears for me? Kindda?


 
 Don't give up Dark wizzie, you can make it! The "MP3 Artefacts" was _extremely challenging_ my first time around. I just now tried it again and it wasn't easy but it wasn’t very difficult either. I always have to struggle a bit (pun intended) with 112 kbps, and quite a lot with 128 kbps. You need patience and really take your time to listen in to each sample. Once you do, it’s actually not that very hard at all. _Your brain just needs the time to begin to understand the pattern_. Just listen and don't let any other thoughts cross your mind (the very least thoughts about succeeding), and take a break when, and if you begin to feel frustrated.

 Come on; show us you can get your Silver Ears!


----------



## SleathX1

New to the audiophile world, trying to make the most of the Sennheiser HD 429's. How do you guys think I'll do on this test? It'll give me an idea of how good these cans really are.
  
 Thanks for any replies, even if they're criticizing my lack of a good setup


----------



## davidsh

sleathx1 said:


> New to the audiophile world, trying to make the most of the Sennheiser HD 429's. How do you guys think I'll do on this test? It'll give me an idea of how good these cans really are.
> 
> Thanks for any replies, even if they're criticizing my lack of a good setup



I find a good setup isn't that important for this test.


----------



## Aero Dynamik

sleathx1 said:


> New to the audiophile world, trying to make the most of the Sennheiser HD 429's. How do you guys think I'll do on this test? It'll give me an idea of how good these cans really are.
> 
> Thanks for any replies, even if they're criticizing my lack of a good setup


 
 Haven't heard the Sennheiser HD 429 but from what I've read about it, it should be more than sufficient for being able to pass the test all the way to Golden Ears. As someone else pointed out, the challenge is almost all about your hearing ability. IME hearing is very much about training, so if you don't pass immediately, just keep on going until you do!
  
 Good luck!


----------



## BALANCEATOR

Hello. I try it with a Denon AH-D7000 and the gold standard in the test frequency could not pass. I need to change the handset by one more analytical as Takstar HI2050. I got this if you finish it.
 3 days to finish it later. We'll I'm a Golden Ears ....


----------



## Aero Dynamik

balanceator said:


> Hello. I try it with a Denon AH-D7000 and the gold standard in the test frequency could not pass. I need to change the handset by one more analytical as Takstar HI2050. I got this if you finish it.
> 3 days to finish it later. We'll I'm a Golden Ears ....


 
 Hm... I still think it is mostly a matter of training. Anyway, as I understand it you got your Golden Ears, so congratulations!


----------



## sonitus mirus

I agree.  Training and a quiet room.  PX-100 with a cheap Samsung Chromebook is the same for me as using more expensive equipment in my inventory.  Though, I've only had the time/patience to go through the midway part of Silver.  I don't think I could pass Gold, but not because of the equipment, it would be due to my hearing.
  
 I'll have to create an account one day so I can continue where I left off.


----------



## jonyoo

I had the honor of meeting Philips' Head of Acoustics and Sound here in Korea through an event and I did not know that they actually use this Golden Ears Test. Employees of Philips will take the test to see if their eligible for blind testing their own products against other products. They have to be at Golden Ears or Platiunum Ears level to be a tester...is what he told me.


----------



## Ultrainferno

correct, but that's been known for quite a while. Tyll and Headfonia have reported that last year already. Too bad we can't go Platinum!


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Yep. And their internal software is much more challenging.


----------



## jonyoo

tyll hertsens said:


> Yep. And their internal software is much more challenging.


 
 Yes it is! He briefly showed me the software and the platinum ears is just on another level. He told me there are only a handful of people that were able to pass it.


----------



## YTCrazyTieGuy

Setup: Superlux HD668B straight from Toshiba Laptop, with Equalizer APO to reduce the harsh treble on the 668B, and most of the time I was with crossfeed on just because I'm used to it (took it off for some of the spectral tests). Took me about an hour and a half, though I have an advantage since I have used Harman how to listen before. Speaking of which, has it been linked to in this thread? it's a bit more challenging than golden ears IMO: http://harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.co.il/
  
 Edit: Hardest test for me was probably mp3 artifacts, though I didn't make any mistakes, just took a while. My first mistake was in frequency bands in music (in which I made several mistakes), and I also made one mistake in low frequency extension.
 Also, here are the Equalizer APO files I use for the HD668B for those interested:
  
 EQ:
 Preamp: -6 dB
 Filter 1: ON Pk Fc 2300 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 0.9
 Filter 2: ON Pk Fc 5500 Hz Gain -6 dB Q 5
 Filter 3: ON Pk Fc 9000 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 1
 Filter 4: ON HSC 23 dB Fc 5300 Hz Gain -6 dB
 Filter 5: ON LS 12 dB Fc 45 Hz Gain 6 dB
  
 Crossfeed:
 Copy: L2=L R2=R
 Channel: L2 R2
 Preamp: -4 dB
 Filter: ON HSC 3dB Fc 430 Hz Gain -3 dB
 Filter: ON HSC 3dB Fc 3300 Hz Gain -5 dB
 Delay: 0.2 ms
 Channel: L R
 Filter: ON LSC 1.3 dB Fc 470 Gain -3 dB
 Copy: L=0.5*L+0.5*R2 R=0.5*R+0.5*L2


----------



## Aero Dynamik

jonyoo said:


> I had the honor of meeting Philips' Head of Acoustics and Sound here in Korea through an event and I did not know that they actually use this Golden Ears Test. Employees of Philips will take the test to see if their eligible for blind testing their own products against other products. They have to be at Golden Ears or Platiunum Ears level to be a tester...is what he told me.


 
 Wasn't quite aware of this, thanks!


----------



## mvyrmnd

I discovered this the other day and have made it to Silver Ears. I haven't had time/a quiet enough room (damn kids!) to go for gold yet, but it's been fun so far.


----------



## darkless

I finally got a chance to make an attempt for the coveted "Golden Ears" trophy.
  
 It took me several hours to clear it. The hardest challenge by far was the MP3 artifacts test, followed by the frequency bands on music test.


----------



## Jon Sonne

darkless said:


> I finally got a chance to make an attempt for the coveted "Golden Ears" trophy.
> 
> It took me several hours to clear it. The hardest challenge by far was the MP3 artifacts test, followed by the frequency bands on music test.


 
  
 I closed my eyes at those, it really helped. 
 My setup was: Good ol' Macbook pro ->  Sony MH1 ($10)
  

  
 Regarding the MP3 compression: I found that there was a big difference in the quality of the voice's reverb. How did you tell them apart?


----------



## AKGunkie

I haven't had a chance to try this Phillips one, but here at Harman if you want to evaluate car systems and participate in most audio tests you have to get to a level 7 on various audio tests. The hardest part is frequency band peaks and dips where you have to listen to flat then eq and determine which peak or dip was applied in the eq. Level 7 is seven different bands, 14 total options. To advance to the next level you need to get three correct in a row, but three wrong consecutively will send you down a level. Apparently one of the tuning guys from overseas got to level 14 in an hour or so. I'll try it out to see how they compare.


----------



## darkless

jon sonne said:


> I closed my eyes at those, it really helped.
> <snip>
> Regarding the MP3 compression: I found that there was a big difference in the quality of the voice's reverb. How did you tell them apart?


 
  
 My upper frequency hearing limit using an EQ'ed LCD-X is around 16,5 KHz. I could easily handle the 96 kbps, not so easily the 112 kbps and the 128 kbps was almost impossible. In the beginning I tried to listen for tremolo of the cymbals/whiskers. When that didn't pan out I then tried to focus on the sharpness of the bass pluckings. Also didn't work. Finally I tried focusing on the male vocal. It was difficult because the distance between the mic and the singer's head seemed to vary throughout the sample. Therefore I attempted to A/B using specific passages. In the end I chose the samples where the male vocal was ever so slightly softer, but I still feel like there was a not insignificant amount of sheer luck involved. Tired ears certainly didn't help.
  
 I didn't notice much reverb in the vocal myself. I suspect the LCD-X isn't the best can for listening to reverb decay trails, as it's pretty well damped and doesn't enhance or prolong echoes in any way. I tried using the SE846 as well, but that was completely hopeless, as it doesn't have much output in the upper treble region.


----------



## Jon Sonne

darkless said:


> Finally I tried focusing on the male vocal. It was difficult because the distance between the mic and the singer's head seemed to vary throughout the sample.


 
  
 This also really bothered me when I tried to listen for the vocal. IMO its not an ideal record for testing compression sample rate. I made an ABX test with my own music at 128 kbps and wav, and for some tracks it was really easy to distinguish them.


----------



## maricius

I've tested my hearing (I'm 17) and my upper hearing limit is around 18kHz. I used a DACport LX -> CL Duet -> Philips Fidelio L2 rig which isn't exactly neutral but the mp3 artifacts were of the easiest challenges for me. Even up to 128kbps I heard grain in the vocals and the sound was much less smooth. The treble also had evident grain. I took a while in the Gold level frequency bands tests purely out of memory issues. My other issue was in the harder reverb questions.


----------



## Jon Sonne

maricius said:


> I took a while in the Gold level frequency bands tests purely out of memory issues. My other issue was in the harder reverb questions.


 
 I'm 22 and my upper limit is 19kHz. I think you might have an advantage with the gear you are using 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   
 I'm using the Sony MH1, which is a bit too forgiving when it comes to voices. I will try the test again with different gear when I have the time.
 I found the reverb questions to be straight forward, though.


----------



## maricius

jon sonne said:


> I'm 22 and my upper limit is 19kHz. I think you might have an advantage with the gear you are using
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Maybe IEMs would pick it up easier. Hmm. Is there any audible music up at 19kHz?


----------



## Jon Sonne

The sony MH1 I used are IEMs. I don't think so. 19 kHz is also very piercing and uncomfortable to listen to (so is 18 kHz imo). I wonder what 21 kHz must be like. @bob439 posted that his hearing cuts off at 21kHz.


----------



## maricius

jon sonne said:


> The sony MH1 I used are IEMs. I don't think so. 19 kHz is also very piercing and uncomfortable to listen to (so is 18 kHz imo). I wonder what 21 kHz must be like. @bob439 posted that his hearing cuts off at 21kHz.


 

 Oh I meant to say maybe reverb is more noticeable on IEMs as soundstage is more compressed and possibly impacting the sound more.


----------



## Jon Sonne

That could be.
  
 I know that high-hats can produce sounds above 21 kHz, but the majority of sounds produced by instruments are at frequencies below 5k 
  
 Take a look at this one, if you are interested:
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/frequency-response-of-headphones


----------



## sonitus mirus

darkless said:


> My upper frequency hearing limit using an EQ'ed LCD-X is around 16,5 KHz. I could easily handle the 96 kbps, not so easily the 112 kbps and the 128 kbps was almost impossible. In the beginning I tried to listen for tremolo of the cymbals/whiskers. When that didn't pan out I then tried to focus on the sharpness of the bass pluckings. Also didn't work. Finally I tried focusing on the male vocal. It was difficult because the distance between the mic and the singer's head seemed to vary throughout the sample. Therefore I attempted to A/B using specific passages. In the end I chose the samples where the male vocal was ever so slightly softer, but I still feel like there was a not insignificant amount of sheer luck involved. Tired ears certainly didn't help.
> 
> I didn't notice much reverb in the vocal myself. I suspect the LCD-X isn't the best can for listening to reverb decay trails, as it's pretty well damped and doesn't enhance or prolong echoes in any way. I tried using the SE846 as well, but that was completely hopeless, as it doesn't have much output in the upper treble region.


 
  There are no fundamental frequencies with these musical samples that require hearing above 16.5 KHz.  Anything at that range or above is mostly masked from the lower frequencies anyway.  These are not pure test tones.
  
 Sound frequency doubles with each octave.  The difference between 16.5 KHz and 20 KHz covers only about a minor third interval, or 3 semitones (3 half steps).  Not too significant at all.


----------



## AKGunkie

I've run through to the end of silver ears while my son watches cartoons with my surface RT and AKG K551s, most of it is much easier than getting to level seven here at Harman, but some parts are different; the hardest parts for me where the 2db treble boost and MP3 artifacts.


----------



## Jon Sonne

Maybe  In my experience, I think the reverb is a lot more clear on big cans, because they can better portray soundstage and layering, but thats just my opinion.


----------



## Jon Sonne

I was trying the mp3 artifacts again, and I found that if you listen carefully to the guitar, it is actually quite easy to tell them apart. You can clearly hear the plucking of the strings on the reference, while it is not as audible on the 128kbps. With this method I could tell them apart 10 out of 10 times.
  
 My music library is mainly in 128kbps .... Now I have to re-rip my whole cd collection .....


----------



## acain

I just came across the golden ears test and its pretty cool. I am 38 and have been working in a machine shop for over 20 years so my hearing is shot to hell. More then half of my work life I never wore hearing protection. Just made an account need time away from the kids to do this. I am using a set of Shure SRH840  got past the first part but I am sure I wont get to far since I cant hear crap out of my right ear LOL.


----------



## derbigpr

I find the test boring, I wish I could skip the early levels, because it literally takes me 1 second to tell the correct answer and then I have to wait for test to change. It's more waiting than listening. I wish I could skip to the hardest tests immediately.


----------



## AKGunkie

derbigpr said:


> I find the test boring, I wish I could skip the early levels, because it literally takes me 1 second to tell the correct answer and then I have to wait for test to change. It's more waiting than listening. I wish I could skip to the hardest tests immediately.


 
 I do agree, the beginning was depressingly easy. But its geared to someone who has never done any critical listening in the first stages.


----------



## LancerFIN

I'm stuck at 93% completed. Only things left are that 18 band frequency test and quiz. I just can't bother memorizing all 18 differences. Some of them are so close to each other.. So I'm done.
  
 MP3 bitrate proved to be bit challenging at the beginning and reverb too but eventually learned to hear the difference. Had some difficulties with the last high frequency cut off one too. Everything else was quite easy.


----------



## Benny Ben Bens

That section is by far the hardest. I had to metagame through it with a second browser open on the training page.


----------



## maricius

The 18 bad frequency test is difficult not in hearing but really in the memory aspect of it.


----------



## 00birdy

What are everyone's strengths/weaknesses?  
 Pretty cool thing to do, made me realize alot more about how to describe sounds.  I found identifying bass the simpliest, I don't think I had a single one wrong.  I actually prefer treble in my songs so this may be why I am more sensitive to it.  Loudness and details were also really easy.  Timbre was giving me trouble, and the part where you compare 128kbps mp3 I probably had more wrong answers on there than any other question.

 I have to agree with some of the wavelength/EQ band ones simply being memorization.  The static noise one was annoying too.


----------



## FutureHegemon

I just claimed my status as a Golden Ears! It was fun, but at parts I got frustrated. I used B&W P7s driven by my iPad Air 2. 

As with most others, the toughest part by far was that 18 band EQ test. I probably spent 45 minutes or an hour on it. I ended up taking notes on what I heard with each frequency to make it through. Working from memory was just too tough for me. 

I also had a little trouble with the artifacts, HFE, and reverb sections. 

Loudness, bass, spacing, and noise sections were the easiest. 

I realized that my hearing with the highs is definitely not what it used to be. I'm only 28 — I thought I still had a while before I had to deal with that, but I guess years of standing in the front row at concerts had to catch up sometime. It was a good time! Glad I got the opportunity to do it, and I feel I learned a little as well!


----------



## MacacoDoSom

Everything was so amazingly easy... until I got stuck at the 96Kbps...
  
 ...any thoughts?  
  
 I usually could hear the MP3 artifacts... but in this example... I just can't... when I reach 128Kbps I keep getting back to 96Kbps


----------



## AKGunkie

macacodosom said:


> Everything was so amazingly easy... until I got stuck at the 96Kbps...
> 
> ...any thoughts?
> 
> I usually could hear the MP3 artifacts... but in this example... I just can't... when I reach 128Kbps I keep getting back to 96Kbps


 
 Guitar String plucking, Low Bass detail, High treble "decay" or clarity in cymbals. It is quite difficult, Don't spend too much time with it, it's best to listen in short intervals.


----------



## MacacoDoSom

Finally I've passed it... but I had to fiddle with EQ (more treble) 


akgunkie said:


> Guitar String plucking, Low Bass detail, High treble "decay" or clarity in cymbals. It is quite difficult, Don't spend too much time with it, it's best to listen in short intervals.


----------



## maverickronin

I started this but got sick of the sample they use halfway through the coloration test.
  
 Guess I'm not motivated enough.


----------



## MacacoDoSom

uauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu it took me 2 days... but I finally did it...
  
 The 9 cut or boost bands and the MP3 artifacts took me a while.... overall its easy...except these 2


----------



## MacacoDoSom

macacodosom said:


> Finally I've passed it... but I had to fiddle with EQ (more treble)
> 
> 
> akgunkie said:
> ...


 

 ...thanks for the suggestion, it worked...


----------



## AndroidVageta

I just finished...only one I had an issue with was the MP3 artifacts when I came to realize that the best part to listen to is the horn/trumpet. The incorrect one always is a bit duller here. The brighter louder ones are the good ones. 
  
 Once I focused on this I breezed through it. The vocals and high-hat are good for the first and second question but move to horn for the last two.
  
 Just figured I'd post this in case anyone sees it!
  
 Edit: Forgot about reverberation in Silver. Listening to it again...first and second one are pretty easy but the rest are so minute or just flat wrong. I can switch between all three and notice a distinct difference in one but NOPE...incorrect. Doesn't help that the samples are so long and different. Can make it hard to really distinguish the subtle differences. Especially with the bass string in the song. One song will have a noticeable increase or decrease in volume with it but that's not the wrong one.
  
 Very odd to say the least. First two I always get right but past that it seems to not even know it's own answer haha!


----------



## gepardcv

I love how the compression artifacts section is consistently cited as one of the two hardest problems of the Golden Ears challenge: 128k is nearly indistinguishable from 160k and sounds almost perfect. Yet people still claim to hear differences between 320k and lossless... We don't know which encoders are used in all cases, of course.


----------



## AKGunkie

gepardcv said:


> I love how the compression artifacts section is consistently cited as one of the two hardest problems of the Golden Ears challenge: 128k is nearly indistinguishable from 160k and sounds almost perfect. Yet people still claim to hear differences between 320k and lossless... We don't know which encoders are used in all cases, of course.


 
 It's also with tracks people aren't particularly familiar with, encoders are very good nowadays. But with storage so cheap; what's the point in taking the risk of having an inferior file?


----------



## sonitus mirus

akgunkie said:


> It's also with tracks people aren't particularly familiar with, encoders are very good nowadays. But with storage so cheap; what's the point in taking the risk of having an inferior file?




With streaming options so robust and widely available, what is the point of storage? It has been over 2 years now and I my library of over 35 million songs has me in musical bliss. 

There are plenty of different options available, choose whatever works best for your situation. I don't see any risk at all. I'm absolutely enjoying my music now.


----------



## maricius

gepardcv said:


> I love how the compression artifacts section is consistently cited as one of the two hardest problems of the Golden Ears challenge: 128k is nearly indistinguishable from 160k and sounds almost perfect. Yet people still claim to hear differences between 320k and lossless... We don't know which encoders are used in all cases, of course.


 

 I found it pretty easy… though the 320kbps vs lossless is another matter


----------



## WraithApe

An entertaining diversion! How is anyone doing the 8 band frequency test though? I'm stuck on 93% and can't get past this one. I think I'm right in saying Echoic Memory is only a couple of seconds, so how can anyone remember the sound of the sample with a specific frequency boost/cut several seconds after going through the training section? Any tips? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Someone above mentioned taking notes but what are you noting down exactly?


----------



## kraken2109

wraithape said:


> An entertaining diversion! How is anyone doing the 8 band frequency test though? I'm stuck on 93% and can't get past this one. I think I'm right in saying Echoic Memory is only a couple of seconds, so how can anyone remember the sound of the sample with a specific frequency boost/cut several seconds after going through the training section? Any tips?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It's just practice. As a sound engineer I've got fairly good at this because I spend a lot of time with EQ. You start to recognise what common frequencies sound like.


----------



## MacacoDoSom

wraithape said:


> An entertaining diversion! How is anyone doing the 8 band frequency test though? I'm stuck on 93% and can't get past this one. I think I'm right in saying Echoic Memory is only a couple of seconds, so how can anyone remember the sound of the sample with a specific frequency boost/cut several seconds after going through the training section? Any tips?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It take a lot of training, if you're not used to it it will take some time (some days? weeks?) if you have the patience, you'll get there...


----------



## WraithApe

macacodosom said:


> It take a lot of training, if you're not used to it it will take some time (some days? weeks?) if you have the patience, you'll get there...


 
  
 Yeah, I did. It actually took a couple of hours solid - when I got one wrong, I'd switch back to the training section and re-familiarize myself with the sound of that boost or cut. It became easier to recognize changes to specific bands. Not time well spent I'm sure some would say, but I'm a sucker for a challenge and don't like throwing in the towel!
  
 For me, the hardest sections apart from the frequency band challenge were bass extension sub 50Hz and treble extension beyond 12kHz - pretty subtle differences at that level. As others have said, mp3 artifacts wasn't a cakewalk either - and that was only up to 192kbps. It would seem to further undermine those claiming to _easily_ discern the difference between 320 and lossless, who rarely seem willing to provide ABX logs to back up their claims.


----------



## searedlamb

First Post on Head-fi! Just found out about this test today and decided to finish it. The section I had the most trouble with was the Golden Ears frequency bands on music. The rest were pretty easy. I ended up just memorising what a cut or boost sounded like. Then I memorised a few main boosts or cuts and from there I was able to determine whether the cut or boost i was listening to was lower, higher or the same as the ones I had memorised. With the bit rate section I didn't make a single mistake, i think this is because I listen to some advice i saw when lurking this thread. Listen to the hi-hat and the recording that is the last sharp and crisp has the lower bitrate.
  
 Edit: Apparently I can't post an image yet as my account is too new but I will when I get sufficient permissions.
  
 Edit 2: Here it is.


----------



## Yoga

And why not...
  


 :¬)


----------



## riverlethe

I'm stuck on mp3 artifacts in the Silver Ears challenge.  The song is incredibly annoying to begin with, and sounds like it was recorded in 1947.  How am I supposed to distinguish mp3 artifacts?


----------



## Yoga

riverlethe said:


> I'm stuck on mp3 artifacts in the Silver Ears challenge.  The song is incredibly annoying to begin with, and sounds like it was recorded in 1947.  How am I supposed to distinguish mp3 artifacts?


 

 Quite tricky that test. Your gear will have an impact on detecting the more subtle compression tests.


----------



## WraithApe

yoga said:


> Quite tricky that test. Your gear will have an impact on detecting the more subtle compression tests.


 
  
 Yeah I found it one of the most challenging too. In terms of what to look for though, it's ringing, pre-echo or graininess of sound. In real terms, I'd describe it as a faint, fuzzy metallic swirling around the recorded sound - it's kind of hard to put into words actually; it's just something you can hear when you know what you're listening for. I just got used to the differences when comparing to the lowest bitrate encoding, where it's less subtle, then listened harder for the same differences moving through higher bit sizes. As you approach the point of audible transparency though, the differences get increasingly subtle and difficult to detect.


----------



## icebear

If you know how acoustic instruments actually sound live, you'll be able to pick an mp3 track with a wire brush on cymbals listening on you car stereo when driving with the windows down 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 Complex sound structures will not get represented properly. They just melt together. Only the loudest top part is there and the small stuff that fills the sound with a natural body gets thrown out. This can work really well for some pop music stuff and anything that has clean single notes but the wire brush is a "noise" that is the opposite and it lives from the complexity of all the single wires (20-50?) getting moved around but not exactly creating the identical sound at the same time but just slightly apart.


----------



## riverlethe

I heard lots of crackling and distortions in the recording, but they weren't mp3 artifacts.  I don't know why they use such a poor sample.


----------



## -bynx-

Damn that looks challenging. My ear are more geared towards 12-tone analysis, which is its own ballgame. I prefer to 'train' my ears by writing electronica though. All that EQing pays off without even feeling like work


----------



## Cathcart

I'm doing this right now. Most of it is pretty easy, but I had a difficult time with the mp3 artifacts section. As of now I've finished everything in Golden Ears _except the frequency bands part. _Boy, is that difficult. Right now, though, I'm trying to memorize the sound of each and every cut/boost in the introduction. Hoping I can finish this before dinner.
  
 UPDATE: I've taken a break from the challenge because I need to study for Julius Caesar but I'm not making much progress. It's so hard


----------



## Takeanidea

Took some doing, but don't give up on the frequency bands part. There are some tough ones there, I never thought i'd do it!


----------



## OddE

takeanidea said:


> Took some doing, but don't give up on the frequency bands part. There are some tough ones there, I never thought i'd do it!


 
  
 -Congrats! Stuck on the frequency bands myself, but I've started taking notes, expecting that will better enable me to recognize just what I am listening to...


----------



## Takeanidea

What helped me was my old hearing; I could instantly recognise the boost in the 16Khz region; because my hearing does not extend this far , I could hear no difference whatsoever! Also boosts in the 16hz were very bass orientated, the 500hz were making the guitar boomy , you'll pick it up in the end


----------



## Fink24

Finally I made it.

 Most of it was easy, except for the mp3 artefacts and the golden frequency band test (It took me way over an hour for the frequency test and it started to drive me insane
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 Anyway, I am still glad I made it through


----------



## bzippy

riverlethe said:


> I'm stuck on mp3 artifacts in the Silver Ears challenge.  The song is incredibly annoying to begin with, and sounds like it was recorded in 1947.  How am I supposed to distinguish mp3 artifacts?


 

 i'm stuck here too. everything above 112 kbps sounds the same to me. my ears? my gear? who knows.
  
 Asus Xonar DX with CS4398 DAC in Hi-Fi setting (all processing off) --> JDS Labs C5 --> Sennheiser HD600


----------



## scottcriswell

I'm currently working on the mp3 artifacts, taking a break for dinner. . Using a Schiit Uber ModiMagni combo and HD 700s


----------



## scottcriswell

Finally got through it by switching back and forth really fast and listening for which track had a louder high hat.


----------



## Takeanidea

scottcriswell said:


> Finally got through it by switching back and forth really fast and listening for which track had a louder high hat.



 


When are we going to see a Golden Ears picture from you Scott? Don't give up........


----------



## scottcriswell

I might finish it this week, just have two more sections and the quiz


----------



## JeffThomas

Finished Golden Ears last night with my Monoprice 8323 plugged straight into my Lenovo laptop.  The hardest parts for me were the high frequency tests (surprised I passed that!) and the bitrate.  I found the easiest way was to not try to pick out specific sounds but to just listen to the music and then it became obvious.  The bitrate test is especially useful for those that debate what size files they should be storing/playing.  I'll stick with high def.


----------



## sonitus mirus

jeffthomas said:


> The bitrate test is especially useful for those that debate what size files they should be storing/playing.  I'll stick with high def.


 
  
 I don't think so, as we have no idea what encoder or settings were used and the highest bitrate tested is only 160 kbps or lower.
  
  
 With the latest iTunes AAC or Lame MP3 encoder using higher bit rates, the differences become exceptionally challenging to hear.  If anything, the bitrate test should cause many people to reconsider using one of the various subscription streaming services and save any purchases for the occasional gems that are discovered.


----------



## AKGunkie

sonitus mirus said:


> I don't think so, as we have no idea what encoder or settings were used and the highest bitrate tested is only 160 kbps or lower.
> 
> 
> With the latest iTunes AAC or Lame MP3 encoder using higher bit rates, the differences become exceptionally challenging to hear.  If anything, the bitrate test should cause many people to reconsider using one of the various subscription streaming services and save any purchases for the occasional gems that are discovered.


 
 If we can pick out differences in tracks we don't know, what about tracks we know extremely well? I think Lossless has its place for storage purposes as once you transcode the information you have lost can never be regained. Also, considering buying an mp3 album or CD cost about the same you might as well control as much of your setup as possible. If you have "perfect" files its one less thing to worry about when it comes to quality.


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## RRod

akgunkie said:


> If we can pick out differences in tracks we don't know, what about tracks we know extremely well?


 
  
 I think we overestimate our long-term audio memory. More useful in a test would be general experience in hearing the artifacts that lossy codecs produce.


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## JeffThomas

rrod said:


> I think we overestimate our long-term audio memory. More useful in a test would be general experience in hearing the artifacts that lossy codecs produce.


 

 I found that trying to "listen" for specific artifacts was difficult.  Especially on my low fi setup.  But when I just listened to the music and stopped trying to focus on differences, it became obvious.  So practice in hearing artifacts may be helpful but I'm not sure its necessary.


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## RRod

jeffthomas said:


> I found that trying to "listen" for specific artifacts was difficult.  Especially on my low fi setup.  But when I just listened to the music and stopped trying to focus on differences, it became obvious.  So practice in hearing artifacts may be helpful but I'm not sure its necessary.


 
  
 For passing the GE test, probably not. My comment was addressing higher rates and/or newer codecs and how our memory of a song would help us differentiate them versus the uncompressed file.


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## ttueni

Just got Golden Ears status with my Koss Porta Pros and my 50 year old ears.


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## musicphotolife

I got mine in Feb this year, but just came across this thread and glad to know that I'm not alone in getting stuck with the frequency band test.
  

  
 I came across the test while attending the 2015 Philips Fidelio Media Launch.


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## Takeanidea

musicphotolife said:


> I got mine in Feb this year, but just came across this thread and glad to know that I'm not alone in getting stuck with the frequency band test.
> 
> 
> 
> I came across the test while attending the 2015 Philips Fidelio Media Launch.


 
 You got there in the end! Well done it's not easy....


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## Sh0eBoX

Finally! Came across this challenge a couple days ago while browsing the X2 thread as I just got these not too long ago. Thought I'd give it a shot. Most everything was fairly straight-forward, although I definitely struggled for a long time with the MP3 bit rate challenge in the Silver Ears section. After that, the only other tall task was the frequency bands on music. As others stated, though, that one seemed to be more about memorization than anything else.
  
  
 Feels good to have finally completed this after having so much trouble with the bit rate portion


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## Takeanidea

Excellent well done. Gives a different perspective on our hobby aswell.... Am no longer so worried about using EQ and I am now of the opinion that the mastering quality of an album may well be more important than what the bit rate is


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## 441879

Fun and educational. I was surprised how little difference bit rate makes and I'm pretty convinced that anything above 320 is going to be insignificant for me, even with really challenging music.

Equipment was Audio-Technica ATH-MSR7 through a Teac HA-50P (yes, you can do it with moderately priced gear)


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## Cerastes

Got my "golden ears" awhile ago. Was fun except the final frequency cut/boost test which was rather annoying and more about memorization really.


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## Zam A

I just found this challenge last night and completed golden ears with my ath-im50 & a tablet  it was pretty fun


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## olbc

So I know this is an old thread, but it appears that golden ears has just been shut down by Philips. I spoke with Philips support chat person and confirmed, although they did not know a reason for shutting it down:
  
*ME: *did you guys kill golden ears?
 *Salvador: *Let me look into that Oleg, okay?
 *ME: *thanks!
 *Salvador: *It is not available anymore Oleg.
 *ME: *that's a shame
 *Salvador: *I do not have any information on why was that decision made
 *ME: *is there anyone to contact whom I can discuss what a shame this is? 
 *Salvador: *At the bottom you will see a phone number which will provide you the right department.
 *ME: *at the bottom of what, sorry?
 *Salvador: *Sorry Oleg, forgot to press enter to provide you the link
 *Salvador: *http://www.usa.philips.com/c-w/support-home/support-contact-page.html


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## AKGunkie

olbc said:


> So I know this is an old thread, but it appears that golden ears has just been shut down by Philips. I spoke with Philips support chat person and confirmed, although they did not know a reason for shutting it down:
> 
> *ME: *did you guys kill golden ears?
> *Salvador: *Let me look into that Oleg, okay?
> ...


 
 Sad news, it was a great tool for visualizing the changes in audio. You can still DL the harman trained listener one, but it's a old and hobbled together program. It ultimately does a better job IMO but it's not as pretty/easy to pick up for beginners as the GE site.


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## fallofdave

This really is a shame.  Hopefully they will release the program and not delete it and put it to waste.  Perhaps if Head-fi and others petition them we can get them to put it back up or to release the code.


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## olbc

Oh? Do you have a link?! I'd love to check it out!
  
 Also, are there any other options or alternatives for such product?


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## HiFiChris

olbc said:


> Oh? Do you have a link?! I'd love to check it out!
> 
> Also, are there any other options or alternatives for such product?


 
  
http://harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.de/


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## HPLobster

Wow, this really saddens me right now, since I just heard about this TODAY and now of course would give my right arm to try the challenge!
  





  
 Hopefully Philips is going to think this over....


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## olbc

It's unlikely that they will think this over. I was informed that everyone who was involved in this project moved when Philips sold their subsidiary to Gibson.


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## HiFiChris

olbc said:


> It's unlikely that they will think this over. I was informed that everyone who was involved in this project moved when *Philips sold their subsidiary to Gibson*.


 
  
 Oh, wow, I didn't know about that.
  
 Too bad they didn't leave the files on their servers or at least offer the website files for download.


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## olbc

hifichris said:


> Oh, wow, I didn't know about that.
> 
> Too bad they didn't leave the files on their servers or at least offer the website files for download.


 
 Yeah, opensourcing this would have been a community service...


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## Joao Bosa

Any news on the challenge coming back? I really wanted to try it


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## KipNix

Sadly, I missed it. But I'm wondering if Youtube would have something comparable.
 But then again, that site might have inherent audio limitations, correct?


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## AKGunkie

kipnix said:


> Sadly, I missed it. But I'm wondering if Youtube would have something comparable.
> But then again, that site might have inherent audio limitations, correct?


 
 Harman how to listen is the only software that will have what you are looking for. It was linked previously in this thread.


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## lawlbear

Awe they removed it =/


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