# Stax SR-009: Best Headphone Ever Made? - Head-Fi TV, Episode 008



## jude

Episode 008 of Head-Fi TV was just uploaded.  This episode is a video review of the new flagship headphone from Stax, the SR-009 electrostatic earspeakers, powered by the Woo Audio WES electrostatic headphone amplifier.
   
  Thanks to Jack Wu of *Woo Audio* for letting us borrow his personal Stax SR-009 (that he went to Japan to pick up earlier in the spring).  Jack also let us borrow one of Woo Audio's flagship *WES* electrostatic headphone amps.
   
   

  Products mentioned in the video:

   

 *Stax SR-009* electrostatic headphone
 *Woo Audio WES* electrostatic headphone amplifier
 *Stax SR-007 Mk2* electrostatic headphone
 Sennheiser Orpheus headphone system
 *HiFiMAN HE-series* headphone
 *Sennheiser HD 800* headphone
 *Audeze LCD-2* planar magnetic headphone
 *HeadAmp Blue Hawaii Special Edition* electrostatic headphone amplifier
 *Ray Samuels Audio A-10 Thunderbolt* electrostatic headphone amplifier
   

   

   

_Head-Fi TV Episode 008 _produced by Joseph Cwik and Jude Mansilla

   
   

  We will occasionally post Q&A episodes of Head-Fi TV.  If you want to submit any questions (or comments), you can do so via email to *tv@head-fi.org*.


----------



## crumpler

Another fantastic episode!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

I thought HD650's were expensive.......


----------



## sphinxvc

Jude, what source were you using in this WES > SR-009 rig?


----------



## JudgeDreadLocks

HD650s? I thought LCD-2s were expensive. Do I want a car, or possibly the best headphones ever created...
  
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> I thought HD650's were expensive.......


----------



## Sam-Fi

:drool:
  I don't much like dark headphones. This seems like everything I could ask for in a headphone.
   
  Too bad about that price tag!
   
  Sam


----------



## Leiker535

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> I thought HD650's were expensive.......


 


  [2]
   
  Nice review jude.


----------



## jude

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Jude, what source were you using in this WES > SR-009 rig?


 

 MacBook Pro and MacBook Air --> Amarra (latest version) --> Lavry DA11 DAC


----------



## monsieurguzel

Great review Jude!


----------



## RAFA

WOOOW this is crazy considering the price. Some people give out even more for speakers...
   
  I think my ears will never be treated with something like this X/


----------



## Nom de Plume

That's certainly the last word in affordability, eh?
  I wonder whether I'm willing to eat only ramen for the next 3 years...


----------



## LizardKing1

When you follow the video to watch it on youtube, you see 1 user doesn't like the video. 5$ as that was Jude disliking his own video.


----------



## AuralRelations

I wonder if I'll have enough money for this when I'm 60 years old...Goal: set.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

any comments comparing the detail of these to the detail of the JH3A prototype at canjam? cause i felt those were some of the most detailed headphones id ever heard, and i think many would agree


----------



## Ra97oR

I would LOVE to hear the SR-009 myself. I found the SR-007 slightly too dark for my likings, if SR-009 is brighter and better, I am sure to rob a bank or something...


----------



## ambchang

Jude looks like he is in love throughout the whole episode, sort of like an 18 year old telling the world he is dating a super model.
   
  And that is what makes these episode so great, that you can see his interest and passion towards his subjects.
   
  BTW, given the popularity in the thread, would love to have to do an episode on all those orthos, from low to high price


----------



## sunneebear

10 - 12 k is actually a steal compared to the Orpheus system.
   

  
  Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> I wonder if I'll have enough money for this when I'm 60 years old...Goal: set.


 
  By that time medicare will be paying for your 10 k dollar hearing aid.  Good ones today already cost 5 - 6 k.


----------



## RudeWolf

I wonder how much joy can be had from a 2 kilobuck LCD-2/HE-500 system compared to this Stax superheavyweight...
   
  Blasphemous thoughts, I know...


----------



## Yekrut

Amazing episode, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Great to see all that amazing gear.


----------



## carm

Jude, this video is just plain awesome !!!
  Anyone want to trade Sony Qualia for 009 ?


----------



## mosshorn

I'll take 2, no wait 3 systems!
  
   
   
  ......I might need to borrow a few bucks though -_-


----------



## NewMACAdress

Just had one installed in my Veyron.  I might take it to West Coast Customs to get customized though ya know.  
  Jk i would never buy a Veyron. They aren't fast enough
  BTW i heard they were a pretty DETAILED headphone.  Can anyone comment on this lol.
  Thanks for the review Jude.   
  I would imagine a headphone so detailed would be amazing at imaging with an effortless soundstage.  With that thin of a Membrane, i am curious if that helps with separating instruments in a fast paced song with a lot of different instruments while still being able to keep them full bodied.  Actually i guess i don't have to ask considering he said "the best headphone of all time," so i would assume it can do everything.


----------



## Armaegis

Psst, the link for the A-10 is broken.


----------



## valtopps

i love your show but $10,000.00 maybe 1% would buy them. really would like to see more equipment in the $500 and under where most of us would buy.
  keep them shows coming


----------



## joe

A-10 link is fixed.


----------



## johnsonad

Nice review Jude!  Do you ever age   I'm headed to Tokyo for the 4th and will give these a listen based on your review.  Thanks!


----------



## roadcykler

I would say 98% as much especially considering the ridiculously priced ones reviewed here. Great review but I'm not sure if I won the lottery I could bring myself to spend that much on headphones and an amp.
  
  Quote: 





rudewolf said:


> I wonder how much joy can be had from a 2 kilobuck LCD-2/HE-500 system compared to this Stax superheavyweight...
> 
> Blasphemous thoughts, I know...


----------



## Niyologist

The HD800 is worth the $1500. It has a Massive Soundstage/Headstage with fantastic treble, midrange and bass. The bass is not too much or too little. It's also textured nicely and the decay is very good on both ends. I would buy it but I can't afford it. I tried it out in B & H and I was going bonkers over the SQ.


----------



## NewMACAdress

So I had never come across this http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary until now,  and have only been able to envision vocabulary by picking apart the few headphones that i had by memory and put 2 and 2 together.  Now i don't have to try to describe so many things and sound like an idiot.  
     In the future i plan to make a quick thought book that will help separate the "being" of a headphone based on importance, low to high. Then i will post it on Head-fi. Obviously, as anyone who has read more than two pages on this website can tell you, everyone hears and thinks differently so my findings will be purely objective to me and complete nonsense to some(hopefully not.)
    Stax-SR009,  according to this list,  what numbers make this headphone stand out and could you maybe start in order from initial to last noted.


----------



## 9pintube

Jude Very interesting review, but one BIG QUESTION for A BIG PRICED HEADPHONE.... Didn't they stop production and sales of this model due to finding dust or other contaminant  in between the film and metal plates that caused major problems???  If they did as I'm pretty sure I've read, was there any truth to these complaints?   Then my next question would have to be after paying 5200 bucks for a faulty Pr. of the "BEST EVER CANS" made but with serious problems have you heard how Stax has dealt with these sad buyers or are these people waiting for theirs to be repaired????? I know I would be pretty upset if I forked over that much money with the promise of owning the "BEST" then find out that they were faulty........   To tell you the truth and I don't own any Woo products but from what I've heard from owners is that "He"(Mr.Woo) takes pretty dang gone good care of his paying, repeat buying customers........   What's the old saying, " you make one great product (even a can of beans), and you'll sell a million, One bad product will loose you a WHOLE BUNCH of sales! Any comment....thanks again for showing us your excitement with these new Headphones!


----------



## ricmiclaw

9pintube said:


> Jude Very interesting review, but one BIG QUESTION for A BIG PRICED HEADPHONE.... Didn't they stop production and sales of this model due to finding dust or other contaminant  in between the film and metal plates that caused major problems???  If they did as I'm pretty sure I've read, was there any truth to these complaints?   Then my next question would have to be after paying 5200 bucks for a faulty Pr. of the "BEST EVER CANS" made but with serious problems have you heard how Stax has dealt with these sad buyers or are these people waiting for theirs to be repaired????? I know I would be pretty upset if I forked over that much money with the promise of owning the "BEST" then find out that they were faulty........   To tell you the truth and I don't own any Woo products but from what I've heard from owners is that "He"(Mr.Woo) takes pretty dang gone good care of his paying, repeat buying customers........   What's the old saying, " you make one great product (even a can of beans), and you'll sell a million, One bad product will loose you a WHOLE BUNCH of sales! Any comment....thanks again for showing us your excitement with these new Headphones!




Fundamentally, you are right about the SR-009 having problems. I have one on order from Jack and received an e-mail from him a while back that Stax had stopped distribution for 60 days or something to that effect. The design was supposed to be fixed and the model reissued. I haven't received mine yet so I don't know what's going on beyond the above. I originally was going with a WES but decided that a fully tricked Woo Audio 5 and a WEE would better meet my overall needs. I'm expecting to hear from Jack most any day now.


----------



## ericohgb

Quote: 





ricmiclaw said:


> Fundamentally, you are right about the SR-009 having problems. I have one on order from Jack and received an e-mail from him a while back that Stax had stopped distribution for 60 days or something to that effect. The design was supposed to be fixed and the model reissued. I haven't received mine yet so I don't know what's going on beyond the above. I originally was going with a WES but decided that a fully tricked Woo Audio 5 and a WEE would better meet my overall needs. I'm expecting to hear from Jack most any day now.


 


 My SR-009 also had the imbalance issue. Still waiting STAX to solve this issue. Regarding the 5K proce, it should not have happened.
  Regards,
  Erico


----------



## alv4426

Do you guys know who is giving the best prices for kidneys right now?


----------



## n3rdling

Cool review, they look so pretty


----------



## ricmiclaw

ericohgb said:


> My SR-009 also had the imbalance issue. Still waiting STAX to solve this issue. Regarding the 5K proce, it should not have happened.
> Regards,
> Erico




Fortunately for me, the units Jack received were allocated to other people in front of me in the order queue. Jack said that I was to receive the next unit and I'm still waiting. I don't know if any of the people in front of me actually had problems with their SR-009s. Jack said that the problem affected 12% of the units made to that point. That means nearly 9 of 10 had no problems (or at least not that problem). Still, I consider myself lucky.

Regarding the price, you're right. Headphones at this price and much lower, too, should not fail. Nonetheless, we are all human and failures will occur. If the company treats the affected customers well, then I think the failures can be forgiven, but not if they treat affected customers poorly. We'll see what happens with the SR-009. Remember that Stax had a similar problem with the SR-007 and reissued a redesigned model as the SR-007MK2. I don't know how the affected customers felt about how they were treated by Stax at that time.


----------



## NewMACAdress

I just saw a link to 500 dollard d7k's and i'm crying right now. I feel like a child crying and throwing a fit about it but it hurts so bad.


----------



## dagothur

So, all I have to do is get three jobs, sell bits of my vital organs and I'll have the best system ever!


----------



## Spareribs

Another great video from Jude. High quality gear is an investment so spending $10,000-$25,000 is normal. Compared to other expensive hobbies, it's within reason. Personally for me, I am not really a fan of the Stax headphones and would not buy one even if it were at a budget price. That being said, I have not heard this new headphone and I may eat my words and be highly impressed.
   
  If anyone plans buying it, it is seriously recommended that you audition it. Just because many people love it, does not mean that you will. I do agree with Jude about quality amps. A great headphone or even a mere good quality headphone must have a kick ass amp. The Woo amps are wonderful and I tend to prefer the Woo designs more but again, audition if possible even if you have to fly out to a foreign city to a big Head-fi meet.
   
  Lastly, think about your priorities, for that amount of money, you could buy a great speaker system. In my opinion, headphones no matter how great can never really give the joy that speakers give but again, I could be proven wrong and eat my words. Anyway, this is a fun and exciting hobby. The thrill of great gear is where it's at on Head-fi.


----------



## wdahm519

Wow, nice review.  I really like how these are portrayed.  I need to start getting that Masters engineering salary going so I can afford the SR-009/WES or Blue.  
   
  Jude, can you comment on the sound signatures of the WES and Blue Hawaii with the SR-009?


----------



## Moostrkraaft

First post! Weird cuz I feel like I know this place, but I finally have some understanding about high-end headphones (thank you Head-Fi and my new equipment). I can accept that the SR-009 might be the best headphones ever, but would it be better than say having an LCD-2, HD-800, HE-6, and JH-16s all at the same time? I've found in my experience in listening and reading Head-Fi that multiple headphones win over one, simply because one headphone might do well for one song and another might sound better for another song. To me, it seems like multiple dudes ganging up on one, which seems completely unfair. On another note, Jude owns the camera! Thanks for everything!


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





spareribs said:


> Another great video from Jude. High quality gear is an investment so spending $10,000-$25,000 is normal. Compared to other expensive hobbies, it's within reason.


 


 The bank will give you a loan for that new sports car or boat though.  You've got to drop that 12k in one hit.  Walk in to a bank and tell them you need a loan for your headphone rig and see what kind of stares you get.


----------



## milosolo

Very nice review thank you Jude! It's out of this mid-fier's budget but it's still cool to hear about ultra high-end gear like this. Otoh as someone earlier said this could be a very good value when compared to the Sennheiser Orpheus system. Oh, and don't forget to budget the ~$2k in cables you'll need for it. Seeing this makes it a lot easier for me to justify a nice LCD2/amp system!


----------



## Satellite_6

~$2k in cables. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Even if I had the money I think I'd pass on this. . . I'll stick to solid state amps, dynamic headphones, and lowly stock cables.


----------



## dagothur

Quote: 





satellite_6 said:


> ~$2k in cables.


 
  Jitter-free purified silver with lambskin sheathing to prevent bass flabbiness, of course.


----------



## zero7525

Oh man, it BEATS the Orpheus? 
  I'm impressed, considering the Orpheus set is $20,000 while this only totals to about $10,000


----------



## Spareribs

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> The bank will give you a loan for that new sports car or boat though.  You've got to drop that 12k in one hit.  Walk in to a bank and tell them you need a loan for your headphone rig and see what kind of stares you get.


 


  Assuming you don't need a loan. Keep in mind, there are people out there who easily spend thousands of dollars on hi-fi without blinking an eye and with ease. 12K is not really a lot of money for some people out there in Stereophile land.


----------



## JamesMcProgger

this was the most interesting one so far. weird, its also the one with stuff i'm not buying, not in a short time or never.


----------



## PointyFox

At my current salary it should take 43 years to be able to afford this. Maybe it will be cheaper by then.


----------



## paconavarro

Yes, that's my son...


----------



## JamesMcProgger

Quote: 





pointyfox said:


> At my current salary it should take 43 years to be able to afford this. Maybe it will be cheaper by then.


 


  or more expensive, think Orpheus


----------



## walfredo

Well, the Orpheus is the best headphones I've heard so far.  (Thanks to n3rdling in the last bay area meeting.)
   
  If this Stax can be even better... it should be all, completely, totally mind boggling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Anyhow, it is beyond my reach.  I'll have to pass. 
   
  []s
  Walfredo


----------



## Double F

The price could go up or down depending on demand and the dollar yen exchange rate.  Please dollar start rising!


----------



## arnesto

I wanted to buy the 007 model until I heard them.
   
  I have a feeling I won't feel the same way with the 009 model.
   
  BTW, nice video dude.


----------



## wotts

After listening to these at the meet mentioned in the vid, I was almost ruined at the sound. I think I achieved headphone nirvana. I was listening through the A-10 and Ray's MAGNIFICENT Boulder CD Player, but wow, what a set of cans. I wish I had more time with the WES to compare, but I think either amp is an exellent pairing with the SR009.
   
  After a few weeks at home with my He-6 and T1s, I have again normalized....
   
   
  wannnt...SR009....


----------



## Jian

Really makes me thinking of buying one.


----------



## IgorC

Thank You. Interesting review.


----------



## TheDreamthinker

At 10000$-12000$, wouldn't it be worth more to buy a complete speaker system (+ acoustically optimised room)? 
  I know, 15000$-20000$ for speakers is only midrange, but still....
   
  But if you can spend 10000$ on headphones without blinking, another 10000$ wouldn't hurt that much, i suppose.


----------



## stuckonsound

Just a reminder, the 10-12k does not include a source. So everyone is going to need to set aside another 20k for a top of the line Esoteric dac. Garbage in garbage out.


----------



## jax

Great review, Jude.  Thanks.
   
  I just had a few responses to some of the comments here, and perhaps a query of my own.
   
  IMHO even a modest speaker system would be more enjoyable than headphones, no matter how good.  That said, I've heard the 007's but not the 009.  I'm fairly confident my opinion would not change as a headphone is still a headphone (no visceral impact, weird experience of a soundstage that was optimized for speakers and not headphones, physical confinement, and I'm probably forgetting something). Somehow headphones have never gave me the kind of small hairs on the back of the neck raising experience that incredible speakers do.  Don't get me wrong - I enjoy headphones for what they can do or I wouldn't be here.  But if I didn't need them by necessity at times I would always use speakers. This begs my first question - does the sense you describe of having these headphones as close to becoming the mic that recorded the music pumped directly into your ears...does this sensation bring headphone listening any closer to that hair-raising sensation of actual presence of musicians in the room with you that you get with speakers?  You did not comment on soundstage in your review, but I'd assume that they are at least as good as 007's in that respect, which is to say excellent (relative to other headphones). 
   
  The driving quality that comes across in the review is detail retrieval.  Though it's a nice feature of any transducer, there are many other things that make speakers/headphones engaging.  I did not really get a sense of how well it engages you with the music...how much you loose yourself in the experience of listening.  At one point you said they were definitely not "sterile" and are very neutral.  I guess what I'm missing is a connection to how they convey a sense of the music you are listening to...perhaps the overused term is PRAT. 
   
  As far as the price - there are obviously plenty of folks out there with the disposable income willing to part with it for the experience.  Why not?  Personally I think it utterly ridiculous, but to each their own.  I do understand the relentless pursuit of a passion. There are a great many who would think my speaker system utterly ridiculous.   I can't speak for the headphone world, as I don't consider myself a big fan. In the speaker world, there is a very steep point of diminishing returns at a certain point of investment.  I wonder you might comment how this applies to the headphone world, Jude, per numerous other queries here in asking how do they compare to more reasonably priced high-end models...what do you get for your 500% price difference over a pair of LCD-2's, HE-500's or HD800's?  Actually I'm more interested in less of a specific comment to the models mentioned, but a more general comment on diminishing returns where a headphone like this one is concerned.  Obviously this is very much part and parcel of why you would think twice about shelling out 10K for the experience - but could you comment more on that?
   
  I'm also curious about the front end you listened with, as well as the music you listen to, and whether you think this may serve any specific genre better than another, or whether it is just the one-headphone does-all kind of solution?  I'm curious in general as to what kind of music you listen to regardless as your profile says you listen to "everything" - do you have any strong leanings to any particular genres or artists? 
   
   
   

  
  Quote: 





thedreamthinker said:


> At 10000$-12000$, wouldn't it be worth more to buy a complete speaker system (+ acoustically optimised room)?
> I know, 15000$-20000$ for speakers is only midrange, but still....
> 
> But if you can spend 10000$ on headphones without blinking, another 10000$ wouldn't hurt that much, i suppose.


----------



## n3rdling

Jude uses the Lavry 11 to my knowledge.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


jax said:


> ...I'm also curious about the front end you listened with...


 

 Quote:


jude said:


> MacBook Pro and MacBook Air --> Amarra (latest version) --> Lavry DA11 DAC


----------



## TheDreamthinker

Quote: 





jax said:


> Great review, Jude.  Thanks.
> 
> I just had a few responses to some of the comments here, and perhaps a query of my own.
> 
> ...


 

 I may be not authorised to comment on things in this pricerange as my experience with (expensive) headphones are practically non existent.
  But I had do have experiences with 20k speaker setups (+ room).
   
  And I need to say, the feeling of the instrument playing/person singing for you/exactly infront of you, is something a headphone can not _(yet*)_ achieve _(i suppose)_.
   
  Of course, it is possible that I am completely wrong, in that case I am really sorry for writing nonsense.
   
_*for people who want to stay optimistic._


----------



## jr41

Great episode, great headphones! Detail retrieval is my favorite yardstick for an audio system. Whenever I get a new headphone/component, and I hear something extra in the music that I didn't hear before, that goes a long way to marking the upgrade as worthwhile. It's also a less subjective means of comparison.
   
  Hearing new information in a familiar recording is a wonderful moment, it takes you closer to the music and the artists. When ever I listen to a setup that's more revealing than the one I'm used to I'm always impressed, but then I always wonder, so what's beyond this? For that reason I would love to hear the SR-009. Though that could leave me frustrated - there's no way I can afford $10,000+ for a headphone system!


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





spareribs said:


> Assuming you don't need a loan. Keep in mind, there are people out there who easily spend thousands of dollars on hi-fi without blinking an eye and with ease. 12K is not really a lot of money for some people out there in Stereophile land.


 


  Yeah.  Spending big bucks on speakers is perceived as a lot more "normal" though.  Fewer people will question you sanity even though its more money.


----------



## TheDreamthinker

Honestly, how can the complete tech. ability of a whole speaker system fit into a headphone?


----------



## NewMACAdress

*"BEST HEADPHONE"*
*BEST "HEADPHONE" EVER*
  has anyone here ever seen "the human experience?"
  just rambling.... i just got done watching it and i'm moved.
  Maybe the reason that i like headphones so much , is because i enjoy my personal space.
  With speakers, everyone can indulge in the experience.


----------



## TheDreamthinker

Quote: 





newmacadress said:


> *"BEST HEADPHONE"*
> *BEST "HEADPHONE" EVER*
> has anyone here ever seen "the human experience?"
> just rambling.... i just got done watching it and i'm moved.
> ...


 

 Make yourself a properly isolated audioroom and a lock at the door.
  That should also do the trick.


----------



## NewMACAdress




----------



## EvilFish

cheers Jude! a great review! and you are so dam right, it's EXPENSIVE! It is so expensive that I begin to wondering, do people really looking for music enjoyment or only looking for SOUND details? Well it's just my stupid thinking... again cheers!


----------



## Spareribs

If Stax headphones were my headphone of choice and I made over a $100,000 a year and bought the Stax rig and never bought another home headphone amp or headphone for the next 25-30 years in the future, it's not a bad investment if you really think about it. Good quality headphones and tube amps usually have good longevity. They usually last much longer than cars.
   
  The good news for average working class civilians, in my opinion, is that headphone enjoyment of high quality can still be possible less than $2,000 and this includes the amp and it may sound better than the Stax if the Stax sound signature happens to not be your flavor.
   
  But if the Stax is your cup of tea and your bank account is small, a $2,000 alternative rig can still take you to sonic heaven.


----------



## shaunybaby

I watched a few other episode and then this one came out and woah what a jump you have taken from talking about a lil speaker that rumbles desks and you like to travel with to this gaint of a headphone!
   
  great review and as always i want more!
   
  thanks again
   
  from shaun


----------



## TheGomdoRi

No matter how great the sound is, the difference wouldn't justify $10,000 regardless of savings+current salary.
 I don't think I am in deep enough like you guys to appreciate the best headphones lol
 Nevertheless, great episode keep them coming, they are fun to watch


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Haha yeah man with 10k I would get a '93 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo
  Quote: 





> HD650s? I thought LCD-2s were expensive. Do I want a car, or possibly the best headphones ever created..


----------



## knopi

Nice video. On the other hand  I agree for this price you can buy beautiful speaker system and I am sure no headphone can be close to right speaker system. Although even headphone have something to be said of course.


----------



## deadlylover

Thanks for the video.
   
  For me, it's really not thaaaat bad considering I already have some Stax gear.
   
  So it's really just the headphones I need, only ~4500 from Japan, now it looks like much better value than before =P.


----------



## Adu

Nice review *Jude*  but I must know what sources, cables, tweaks, you have use for this review. I think that's important to mention in your review.


----------



## dagothur

Quote: 





thegomdori said:


> No matter how great the sound is, the difference wouldn't justify $10,000 regardless of savings+current salary.
> I don't think I am in deep enough like you guys to appreciate the best headphones lol
> Nevertheless, great episode keep them coming, they are fun to watch


 

 GomdoRi Y U STEAL MY AVATAR?


----------



## BrucYSN

I heard the Sennheiser released the Orephous to prove that they are better than Stax, guess it's on now again between the two! lol


----------



## fdhfdy

looks ugly。 I don't want it ：）


----------



## customcoco

Quote: 





thedreamthinker said:


> And I need to say, the feeling of the instrument playing/person singing for you/exactly infront of you, is something a headphone can not _(yet*)_ achieve _(i suppose)_.
> 
> Of course, it is possible that I am completely wrong, in that case I am really sorry for writing nonsense.
> 
> _*for people who want to stay optimistic._


 


  except in binaural recordings which, imo, are the closest thing to "being there". 
   
  at least, much more than any speaker systems I've heard


----------



## ZERUNG

Quote: 





ra97or said:


> I would LOVE to hear the SR-009 myself. I found the SR-007 slightly too dark for my likings, if SR-009 is brighter and better, I am sure to rob a bank or something...


 

 Ok. Count me in also.
  Audiogon, here'smy LCD2.....


----------



## ZERUNG

Just a note to state what this guy from HK thought about his SR-009 Vs LCD2.
  http://www.review33.com/2ndhand/index.php?topic=28110507224151&page=1
   
  Incidently the unit w/SRM007tII amplifier sold for USD 5600


----------



## Lil' Knight

^ Barely understand what he said...


----------



## MalVeauX

Heya,
   
  Looks awesome. I'm actually put off by the leather cups though, I'd want cloth of some type. Sweaty headphone cups are something I can't deal with, and at $10,000, I won't be having sweaty headphone cups! Haha. Decent review, heard a lot of "detail detail detail". Would have liked to have heard more information on what kind of detail it revealed, like background noise from the artist or instrument noises that are not music but rather operational noise or what. Even if it's just breathing or something. I'm curious what detail emerged, or if it was just music releated.
   
  Granted, it depends on the recording of course, but that's why I'm curious (not that you'll find odd stuff like that in an electronic music type, but in a recording with live arists, sure, makes me think of Pawnshop Jazz and Keith Jarret, Koln Concert--check that out in the Stax if you have 'em and let me know how detailed that is!).
   
  Very best,


----------



## NewMACAdress

I was just wondering.  With all that "detail" you speak of, can that make your ears fatigue rather quickly.  I noticed that with any device weather it be speaker or headphone.  If i listen to music that has a lot of different sounds going on at once my ears start to hurt and it's not because i play the music to loudly.  Could all that detail amplify that effect.  I rather enjoy some hip hop over some of my more favored music because its easier on the ears.


----------



## Naim.F.C

Quote: 





zerung said:


> Just a note to state what this guy from HK thought about his SR-009 Vs LCD2.
> http://www.review33.com/2ndhand/index.php?topic=28110507224151&page=1
> 
> Incidently the unit w/SRM007tII amplifier sold for USD 5600


 

 Can someone translate? Also curious to know about a LCD2 vs SR-009 comparison.


----------



## ZERUNG

Quote: 





naim.f.c said:


> Can someone translate? Also curious to know about a LCD2 vs SR-009 comparison.


 

 The implication of the post was that this gent sold his SR-009 and kept his LCD-2. So I am keen to hear the 009 before I remotely think about tossing off my LCD-2.


----------



## Great Sound

I´ll take 5 of em,for my daily trip to the supermarkt.


----------



## Mkubota1

Just went through all of the Head-Fi TV episodes today... love them!  I like your style and the format.  Please keep these coming!


----------



## Lunatique

I totally agree with some of you that the price point of SR-009 rig makes it really unattractive when you compare to what you can get in terms of an amazing sounding speaker system, acoustic treatment, and room correction system by spending the same amount. The difference is just dramatic between what a headphone is capable of and what a speaker system is capable of.
   
  No flagship headphone system can ever compete with even mid-range speaker systems, and the only reason why you should consider such an expensive headphone system is if you simply do not have the room for a speaker system, or that your living environment does not allow you to play speakers at optimal volume. A good speaker system will be much more dimensional, visceral, and "magical" in the way it immerses you in the music. There really is no comparison at all.
   
  Personally, I highly doubt the SR-009 is so much better than the SR-007 or the LCD-2 that the price difference is justified. What we're talking about here is ludicrous diminishing returns at the level where only those who have high disposable income should even bother considering it.
   
  The truth of the matter is, in the grand scheme of things, you are already 75% there in terms of sound quality when you buy low to mid-range headphones in the $150-$500 range. When you go up to the high end of $1k or more, you will be around 80%-90% there. Certain high-end models can even get you 95% of the way there, and you're still only spending a fraction of what the SR-009 rig would cost. Today's mid to high end headphones are so damn good that in order to surpass them significantly, you'd have to design/build something that's so ridiculously expensive that only those who literally have money to burn would consider the upgrade, because you'll be spending 4 to 5 times the amount just to get that extra 5% to10% increase in quality.
   
  Also, consider how important headphone listening is to you. If your living environment allows for a speaker system, then the only time you would need headphones is if it's during hours where you don't want to disturb others. Is it worth it to spend so much money on headphones that you'll only use when you can't use your speakers? If you can ONLY use headphones for whatever reasons, then it's a different story, since you have no choice. But even then, if you could get 90%-95% with a much cheaper high-end headphone, it is even worth it to spend so much more for that additional 5% to 10%?
   
  Anyway, just my two cents.
   
  Quote:


thedreamthinker said:


> At 10000$-12000$, wouldn't it be worth more to buy a complete speaker system (+ acoustically optimised room)?
> I know, 15000$-20000$ for speakers is only midrange, but still....
> 
> But if you can spend 10000$ on headphones without blinking, another 10000$ wouldn't hurt that much, i suppose.


 
   
  I wouldn't say that $15,000-$20,000 is midrange. Audiophiles have a really distorted sense of cost/performance ratio. In the pro audio world, you can get mastering studio quality sounding reference monitors while spending the same or less. This tends to be true across the board in terms of audiophile vs. pro audio products, where the same price will get you much higher quality and useful products in the pro audio world than the audiophile world.
   
  Quote: 





thedreamthinker said:


> And I need to say, the feeling of the instrument playing/person singing for you/exactly infront of you, is something a headphone can not _(yet*)_ achieve _(i suppose)_.
> 
> Of course, it is possible that I am completely wrong, in that case I am really sorry for writing nonsense.


 
   
  You should check out HRTF/Room sim products like Isone Pro / TB Isone. They turn your headphone into speakers coming from in front of you, and it's very convincing. This is not the same thing as a simple crossfeed--it's much more sophisticated.
    
  Quote:


> Sweaty headphone cups are something I can't deal with, and at $10,000, I won't be having sweaty headphone cups!


 

 Just use sanitary covers like I do. They are comfy and don't alter the sound of the headphones at all.


----------



## TheDreamthinker

If I look into those audiophile-magazines, you see those speaker systems for 70000 - 100000$ (which no longer look like speakers).
   
  IMHO, those prices are a bit out of proportion. But those people think otherwise.....i am probably just a jealous non-billionaire.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





thedreamthinker said:


> If I look into those audiophile-magazines, you see those speaker systems for 70000 - 100000$ (which no longer look like speakers).
> 
> IMHO, those prices are a bit out of proportion. But those people think otherwise.....i am probably just a jealous non-billionaire.


 

 You know what, I'd love to have a double-blind shoot out where those 5 to 6 figure speaker systems are pitted against those that cost far, far less, but are already amazing in sound quality (especially the high-end pro audio reference monitors). I think it would likely be very embarrassing for those ludicrously priced speakers systems when the shoot out results are revealed.


----------



## NewMACAdress

I love you.


----------



## TheOtus

Quote:


lunatique said:


> No flagship headphone system can ever compete with even mid-range speaker systems, and the only reason why you should consider such an expensive headphone system is if you simply do not have the room for a speaker system, or that your living environment does not allow you to play speakers at optimal volume.


 
  Now I'm extremely interested to hear what's the price your mid-range speaker system... I've heard a speaker system at this one audio store, only the speakers alone cost about 7 times more than my whole headphone setup, and I was left very un-impressed.


----------



## NewMACAdress

More importantly,  are you a female?  Because i definitely said that i love you and i would feel like an idiot if you weren't.


----------



## Satellite_6

LOL. . .  xD


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





newmacadress said:


> More importantly,  are you a female?  Because i definitely said that i love you and i would feel like an idiot if you weren't.


 


_His _blog is linked in _his _sig.
    
  Quote:


>


----------



## dagothur

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> _His _blog is linked in _his _sig.


 

 He can wear a dress while he's on Head-Fi.  Being a good Samaritan and all that.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





dagothur said:


> He can wear a dress while he's on Head-Fi.  Being a good Samaritan and all that.


 

Inferring gender from an avatar is risky business..


----------



## TheDreamthinker

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> You know what, I'd love to have a double-blind shoot out where those 5 to 6 figure speaker systems are pitted against those that cost far, far less, but are already amazing in sound quality (especially the high-end pro audio reference monitors). I think it would likely be very embarrassing for those ludicrously priced speakers systems when the shoot out results are revealed.


 

 I once read about those melon-speakers, they really are from an aesthetic point of view they are real pieces of art.
  (sorry but don't have the name right now, i will post a picture once i remember again)
  Those were _only_ 80000$.....let's stay humble.
   
  On a more serious note, at that pricerange it seems, the first thing is the price/prestige and the sound comes second.
  The same with cars, get an Astron Martin or a Skoda/Dacia (cheap cars), both drive and bring you from A to B. Of course it also depends on your style of driving, whether you reach B safely, but in this aspect I suppose that the cheap cars are better as you are less likely to crash into a tree.


----------



## NewMACAdress

Idiot i am young one


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





theotus said:


> Quote:
> Now I'm extremely interested to hear what's the price your mid-range speaker system... I've heard a speaker system at this one audio store, only the speakers alone cost about 7 times more than my whole headphone setup, and I was left very un-impressed.


 

 Well, my Klein + Hummel O 300D's retailed at about $7,000 a pair full price, but you can find them for cheaper street price, and there's also the non-digital version (the O 300) that cost even less. I don't know if the O 300D's can be called mid-range, since in the pro audio world, they are considered high-end already (for nearfield reference monitors). But I guess that just makes my point even more so--that in the pro audio world, high-end reference monitors that cost thousands of dollars less than the SR-009 can easily blow it away. There are  other excellent reference monitors in the pro audio market (some cost only about half or less of the SR-009 rig, and I bet they will beat the SR-009 in listening tests, if the room is well-treated):
   
  Klein + Hummel O 300D: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Oct04/articles/kh300d.htm
   
  Barefoot MicroMain 27: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan10/articles/barefootmicromain27.htm
   
  Digidesign RM2: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct07/articles/digidesignrm2.htm
   
  Event Opal: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug09/articles/eventopal.htm
   
  Adam S3XV: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec09/articles/adams3xv.htm
   
  This one costs more than the other monitors listed above (slightly more than the SR-009 rig), but I highly doubt it performs objectively better than the cheaper monitors:
  Genelec 8260A: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan11/articles/genelec-8260a-0111.htm
   
  Focal's pro audio products are also highly respected: http://www.focalprofessional.com/en/product.php
   
  If you want to go even higher-end than these nearfield/mid-field reference monitors, you'll have to enter the world of full-sized mastering studio loudspeakers, and those all start in the 5 figure range and go up from there. Here's a brief thread from 2006 on gearslutz (where pro audio gear nuts hang out) about mastering loudspeakers: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/67450-loudspeakers-mastering.html
   
  There are some companies/products that share a cross-section of customers from both the audiophile and pro audio markets, and B&W is one such company. Personally, I think when a company is able to attract both the audiophile and the pro audio customers, is when you know they are doing something special.
   
  There are also companies that deal only with the pro audio market, such as Oceanway: http://www.oceanwayaudio.com/

 Quote:


newmacadress said:


> More importantly,  are you a female?  Because i definitely said that i love you and i would feel like an idiot if you weren't.


 

 Wow, you just professed love to my wife. 
   
  Among the list of my passions is photography, and that avatar photo is one of my favorite portraits I've ever taken of my wife.
    
  Quote:


maverickronin said:


> Inferring gender from an avatar is risky business..


 

 It's interesting that whenever someone uses an avatar that looks like obvious commercial studio photography of some hot chick, people tend to just assume the person is a fan of that model/actress/celebrity, even if we don't recognize the hottie in the avatar. We don't just assume the person IS the hottie in the avatar, because somehow a very polished commercial photo disassociates that possibility for some psychological reason. But if the photo was a typical snapshot of the same hottie, then we're far more likely to assume the avatar is the person posting.


----------



## jude

I like the Stax SR-007 (the Mk1 more than the Mk2), but, as I said in the video, I haven't found it to be better for me--in terms of both value and absolute performance--than my top-tier dynamics.  (I understand, and accept, that some may disagree with me.)  I am a giant fan of the Audeze LCD-2, HiFiMAN HE-6 and HE-500, and the Sennheiser HD 800 (all of these when driven well), and find them to fulfill my sonic needs as well as the Stax SR-007 system configurations I've heard.
   
  But the Stax SR-009 is...the SR-009.  In other words, of currently available headphones, it stands alone (to my ears).  (And after more and more people hear it, I'm sure there'll be those who'll disagree with me, but I think more who will agree.)  I'm not sure yet if it's something I can bring myself to pay the price for, but I'm seriously considering it.
   
  I still love my other rigs, but I've now heard the outer limits of headphone performance pushed further than I've yet heard it pushed.  And I've heard the outer limits of sheer detail in an audio system pushed further than I've ever heard it pushed, via the SR-009, relative to any other headphones or loudspeakers I've experienced.
   
  As for its price, and what kind of speaker-driving rig you can get with it:  I know you can get a good speaker-driving system for the price of a top-notch SR-009 setup.  But I was reviewing what I now consider the best _headphone_ in the world.  As for what speakers can do that headphones cannot, I'm certainly well aware.  I know that the imaging from headphones (with overwhelmingly most recordings) won't be able to keep up with a good loudspeaker setup.  I know that no headphone--no matter the price--will be able to convey the visceral, body-pounding waves of bass that good loudspeakers can.  But none of the loudspeaker rigs I've heard--and I've heard some dandies--have been able to match the inner detail from the best headphone rigs I've heard.  None.  And no headphone has the inner detail that the SR-009 does (in my experience).
   
  So you may elect to spend $10,000 to $12,000 on something else--a car, a wristwatch, a big honkin' television (or four), your dream espresso machine, home renovations, or even a loudspeaker-driving audio system.  But it won't be a Stax SR-009 setup.  And if you elect to buy a Stax SR-009 setup, it won't haul your kids to a hockey game, tell you the time, let you watch movies on it, make you coffee, increase your home value...or do the things good loudspeakers can that it cannot.
   
  I'm not trying to convince anyone that the Stax SR-009's price _should_ make sense to you.  There are some here for whom it does (all of whom are well aware of the fact that it's a headphone).  I _might_ be one of those people.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





jude said:


> I'm not trying to convince anyone that the Stax SR-009's price _should_ make sense to you.  There are some here for whom it does (all of whom are well aware of the fact that it's a headphone).  I _might_ be one of those people.


 

 On man, you're really wringing your hands on whether to bleed out money for the SR-009 rig, aren't ya?  I can just feel the pain in your voice/words. I think anyone who's ever made a huge purchase in life that just about stretches his spending budget to above and beyond the absolute breaking limit, can relate to your struggle. I felt that way when I spent about $10k on my photography rig, or the Stax SR-007 rig, or my K+H studio monitors, or even the home we now live in.
   
  I guess the real deciding factor is how much joy you think you will get from such a purchase, versus how much joy you are getting from your current favorite rig. So my questions to you, Jude, are these:
   
  Not considering the cost at all and focusing purely on the sound quality, just how much better would you rate the SR-009 compared to your previous favorite rigs, in terms of increase in sound quality in percentage overall? Is it a 10% increase in overall quality/enjoyment? 15%? 20%?
   
  The next logical question would be, how much is that extra increase in quality/enjoyment worth? $1,000? $5,000? $10,000?
   
  The final question would then be, how often do you realistically think you'll get to enjoy the new purchase? A couple of hours a day? A few hours a week? A few times a month?
   
  It I was in your position, unsure whether I'd pull the trigger, those would be the questions I'd ask myself. Of course, it's hard to be completely rational when it comes to luxury purchases, but I think most intelligent people eventually learn to control themselves enough to be pragmatic. Or am I placing too much faith in human being's ability for self-control?


----------



## NewMACAdress

If i were to show my friend a pair of high end headphones and that friend decided that he enjoyed what headphones had to offer,  I would immediately point him over to Head-fi.org.  With in a matter of a couple hours, i would be willing to bet that my friends curiosity would get the best of him and he would start searching for "the best headphone ever"
  This is where he stumbles upon the STAX SR-009!  Yep, just like everyone else who has ever joined this sight could tell you before this headphone came out, the orpheus was the best.  To some it might be plain curiosity.  To some, a reason to gossip and others a new glimmer in their eye and one check away from owning something they know will please them for a long time.


----------



## TheGomdoRi

Quote: 





dagothur said:


> He can wear a dress while he's on Head-Fi.  Being a good Samaritan and all that.


 


  What.The. ????
 I didn't know I had a twin lolol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Nice display pic man


----------



## Currawong

I was quite happy with my modest speaker rig...until I was foolish enough to get 009s.  Now I'll need to spring for some Harbeths I think, so it can keep up.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





jude said:


> As for its price, and what kind of speaker-driving rig you can get with it:  I know you can get a good speaker-driving system for the price of a top-notch SR-009 setup.  But I was reviewing what I now consider the best _headphone_ in the world.  As for what speakers can do that headphones cannot, I'm certainly well aware.  I know that the imaging from headphones (with overwhelmingly most recordings) won't be able to keep up with a good loudspeaker setup.  I know that no headphone--no matter the price--will be able to convey the visceral, body-pounding waves of bass that good loudspeakers can.  But none of the loudspeaker rigs I've heard--and I've heard some dandies--have been able to match the inner detail from the best headphone rigs I've heard.  None.  And no headphone has the inner detail that the SR-009 does (in my experience).


 
   
   
  I'd like to hear that then.  I've never heard any headphone that excels in rendering detail better than my speaker rig (as well as many of the better speaker rigs I've experienced first hand).  The closest I've heard is the 007's.  But hearing that kind of detail with the more accurate, or rather convincing, spacial references of speakers, not to mention the absence of visceral cues (bass is not the only region we experience sound waves 'touch' us, though certainly we are far more aware of that range of the frequency spectrum), well...I guess 'detail' in the speaker world is more believable to me - or lends itself more to the illusion of live music.   On headphones it may occur as more intimate perhaps, but I don't know that it really brings me closer to the music in the same kind of way that I can loose myself in listening to those same details with speakers - I've never listened to a pair of headphones where I'm lost in the illusion - I'm always aware I'm listening to headphones and that the music is being pumped into my ears directly.  Certainly they are different experiences of intimacy.  So the 009's sound intriguing in this way if you say their rendition of details excels over speakers - Cool beans!  I can certainly see where that might be compelling.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I was quite happy with my modest speaker rig...until I was foolish enough to get 009s.  Now I'll need to spring for some Harbeths I think, so it can keep up.


 


  Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about the... oh waitasec...


----------



## BattleBrat

Meh, speakers are still better, *gets up, walks to door, leaves*
  If I wanted this setup I can afford it, it would take 18 months, but 10k is doable, but my speakers are too good, smooth yet dynamic, not bright, yet not dark, dare I say good enough (for now ), I've heard 200,000+ speaker rigs, and THEY are perfect, like a live performance


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





jude said:


> As for what speakers can do that headphones cannot, I'm certainly well aware.  I know that the imaging from headphones (with overwhelmingly most recordings) won't be able to keep up with a good loudspeaker setup.  I know that no headphone--no matter the price--will be able to convey the visceral, body-pounding waves of bass that good loudspeakers can.  But none of the loudspeaker rigs I've heard--and I've heard some dandies--have been able to match the inner detail from the best headphone rigs I've heard.  None.  And no headphone has the inner detail that the SR-009 does (in my experience).


 

 Besides the imaging and visceral impact, speakers have two more characteristics that trump headphones, and that is life-like dimensionality (I'm not sure when you say "imaging" if you also meant this) and more perceived dynamics. A great set of speakers can have multiple individually designed drivers pulling different duties, and because physically there so much more room to design and engineer sound-shaping baffles, driver arrangements, interior structure...etc, there's far more freedom than something that has to fit on your ears and not weigh your head down. When you add up those qualities, they become very compelling.
   
  Obviously, I wouldn't be here if I didn't love headphones, but in the bigger context, I guess it's a bit like how I feel about game console vs. small handheld game devices, a nice car vs. a nice bicycle, a large house vs. a small apartment, or a full meal vs. a snack. One is just bigger, better, and more, while the other, no matter how nice it is, just isn't as satisfying and is only a substitute when the bigger alternative isn't available at the moment. I would never use headphones when I'm allowed to play my speakers at optimal volume. The only time I might is maybe if I'm listening to something that's such an embarrassing guilty pleasure that I don't want anyone to know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  That said, I certainly wouldn't say no to an opportunity to test out the SR-009 against my own rigs, including my Klein + Hummel O 300D's.


----------



## ricmiclaw

lunatique said:


> Besides the imaging and visceral impact, speakers have two more characteristics that trump headphones, and that is life-like dimensionality (I'm not sure when you say "imaging" if you also meant this) and more perceived dynamics. A great set of speakers can have multiple individually designed drivers pulling different duties, and because physically there so much more room to design and engineer sound-shaping baffles, driver arrangements, interior structure...etc, there's far more freedom than something that has to fit on your ears and not weigh your head down. When you add up those qualities, they become very compelling.
> 
> Obviously, I wouldn't be here if I didn't love headphones, but in the bigger context, I guess it's a bit like how I feel about game console vs. small handheld game devices, a nice car vs. a nice bicycle, a large house vs. a small apartment, or a full meal vs. a snack. One is just bigger, better, and more, while the other, no matter how nice it is, just isn't as satisfying and is only a substitute when the bigger alternative isn't available at the moment. I would never use headphones when I'm allowed to play my speakers at optimal volume. The only time I might is maybe if I'm listening to something that's such an embarrassing guilty pleasure that I don't want anyone to know.
> 
> ...




Eloquently stated. I prefer my Klipsch reference speakers to the best of my headphones, which cost thousands $$$. These Klipsch reference speakers are no Sonus Fabers or other trophy speakers, but they offer more enjoyment and more realism than any headphone, and I own many of the best. Although I expect to enjoy my SR-009 when it arrives, there's nothing to compare to reference or better quality speakers at optimal volume for precisely the reasons stated by Lunatique. When I retire to a home of my own design, it will be built around a speaker-based system - not headphones.


----------



## jude

Quote: 





ricmiclaw said:


> Eloquently stated. I prefer my Klipsch reference speakers to the best of my headphones, which cost thousands $$$. These Klipsch reference speakers are no Sonus Fabers or other trophy speakers, but they offer more enjoyment and more realism than any headphone, and I own many of the best. Although I expect to enjoy my SR-009 when it arrives, there's nothing to compare to reference or better quality speakers at optimal volume for precisely the reasons stated by Lunatique. When I retire to a home of my own design, it will be built around a speaker-based system - not headphones.


 

 Quote: 





lunatique said:


> ...A great set of speakers...become very compelling...


 
   
  I'm not debating loudspeakers versus headphones, in case it wasn't clear.  I understand the differences, as do most here (I hope).

 As I said earlier, I fully understand the advantages of speakers.  And as I've said before, over the years, I'd rather listen over a good loudspeaker setup, too, when the opportunity presents itself.
   
  My best friend plays piano very well, usually on a concert grand in his home.  I very much enjoy listening to him play, especially in the new room he built for it, the acoustics of that room being quite nice for the piano.  I would also rather listen to him play live than recorded over my headphones or loudspeakers.
   
  For those of you for whom it wasn't clear, the Stax SR-009 is a headphone.  It is not a room with a loudspeaker-driving system in it.  It's a headphone system, the price of which you could buy (or invest in) many other things, including, but certainly not limited to, a loudspeaker system.
   
  Quote: 





lunatique said:


> ...Not considering the cost at all and focusing purely on the sound quality, just how much better would you rate the SR-009 compared to your previous favorite rigs, in terms of increase in sound quality in percentage overall? Is it a 10% increase in overall quality/enjoyment? 15%? 20%?...


 
   
  I'm asked that question all the time--the percentage-type one.  Maybe I'm just a dufus, but I can't quantify it quite like that--not audio anyway.
   
  I'll say this:  The SR-009 reveals substantially more detail from my good (or better) recordings than I've heard from any other pair of transducers (loudspeaker or headphone).  Specifically, what percentage more?  I'm not sure, but I'd peg it somewhere between 0% and _substantially-better-than-the-best-of-what-else-I've-got-here-%_.
   
  Again, since it seems I wasn't abundantly clear, this thread is about a video in which I briefly reviewed the Stax SR-009 (with the Woo Audio WES), which is a very expensive headphone system, _not_ a loudspeaker system.  The SR-009 is more detailed than any other pair of transducers--loudspeaker or headphone--than I've so far heard.  In my experience, and in my opinion, it is the best _headphone_ system I've yet heard.  However, saying that is not saying that it obviates (or emulates) the key advantages of a very good and well set-up loudspeaker system.


----------



## ricmiclaw

jude said:


> I'm not debating loudspeakers versus headphones, in case you weren't clear.  I understand the differences, as do most here (I hope).
> 
> As I said earlier, I fully understand the advantages of speakers.  And as I've said before, over the years, I'd rather listen over a good loudspeaker setup, too, when the opportunity presents itself.
> 
> ...




A perfectly fair distinction. I also don't understand attempts to quantify the unquantifiable as in 10% better than this or 8% worse than that. Like you, I know only that something is X% better or worse than what it's being compared to and I try to use that inexact information to inform my decisions. I was initially going with the WES but decided, in the end, to get a fully tricked WA5 and a WEE so I could use the same basic cost structure for more than one headphone. We (or at least I) will see whether this was a wise way to go.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





jude said:


> I'm not debating loudspeakers versus headphones, in case it wasn't clear.  I understand the differences, as do most here (I hope).


 
   
  I don't think we're debating which is definitively better. We're simply talking about whether it makes sense to spend $10,000 for one pair of headphone (we're all here because we love headphones, after all), IF you have the option of speakers available to you at the same price point..
   
  If the headphone being discussed was something much cheaper ($1,000-$3,000 range, for example), then there would be no discussion at all, because at that price point, you couldn't get really great speakers, so the situation doesn't even warrant a discussion. But because the SR-009 is so much more expensive than the typical high-end headphone, its price range allows for really excellent speaker systems, the discussion becomes justified.
   
  This discussion is not for the benefit of the already converted or those who are firmly in the other camp, but for the benefit of those who may not have thought about this question seriously, or don't know enough about speakers vs. headphones. Discussing it gives them a helpful point of reference in which to base their own decisions on.


----------



## jude

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> ...This discussion is not for the benefit of the already converted or those who are firmly in the other camp, but for the benefit of those who may not have thought about this question seriously, or don't know enough about speakers vs. headphones. Discussing it gives them a helpful point of reference in which to base their own decisions on.


 
   
  I think this price range for a headphone system is also a filter of sorts.  That is, I suspect few (if any) newbs stumble unsuspectingly into the purchase of a headphone system priced at $10,000 to $12,000 (not even including source components, etc.).
   
_"Honey, I'm not sure how this happened!  Retracing my steps...I was on eBay Motors looking for a used car, just like I told you I'd do...and then somehow I ordered this damn headphone system instead!  And it doesn't even work with my iPod!"_


----------



## jax

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not debating loudspeakers versus headphones, in case it wasn't clear.  I understand the differences, as do most here (I hope).


 
   
  When you post a statement like this,
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> But none of the loudspeaker rigs I've heard--and I've heard some dandies--have been able to match the inner detail from the best headphone rigs I've heard.  None.  And no headphone has the inner detail that the SR-009 does (in my experience).


 
   
  that can of worms is pretty much cracked wide open....along with the obvious price comparison already noted....I guess we could also compare it to used cars of various makes and models....in case someone actually uses that eBay Motors ploy they might have some ammunition for that eminent confrontation with the significant other.
   
  Quote: 





> As I said earlier, I fully understand the advantages of speakers.  And as I've said before, over the years, I'd rather listen over a good loudspeaker setup, too, when the opportunity presents itself.


 
  Me too.


----------



## arnaud

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> A great set of speakers can have multiple individually designed drivers pulling different duties, and because physically there so much more room to design and engineer sound-shaping baffles, driver arrangements, interior structure...etc, there's far more freedom than something that has to fit on your ears and not weigh your head down. When you add up those qualities, they become very compelling.  That said, I certainly wouldn't say no to an opportunity to test out the SR-009 against my own rigs, including my Klein + Hummel O 300D's.


 

 Dear Lunatique: I'd say, wait until you hear the 009 before proclaiming that your speaker are so much better. As for your arguing about the multiple drivers, it's a pretty false statement. People don't use multiple drivers for the sake of having more tuning options but simply because they can't achieve proper results with a single driver. Absolutely nothing in multi-driver loudspeakers helps with better sound reproduction:
  > Non coincident driver yield severe directivity patterns which are particularly nasty for listening in nearfield
  > Multiple drivers force you to use likely passive filter which can have serious impact on the speaker response (both transparency and coherence). Although I assume your monitors are active ones but still the electronic filters prior to the amplification stage do affect the sound negatively.
  > Multiple drivers each have their own character and some pairings don't always sound natural because simply you don't have a coherent sound from top to bottom
  > Enclosure is just one more set of troubles to deal with (internal acoustic resonances, baffle structural resonance, sound diffraction off the baffle which affect imaging severly)
   
  In my own experience, I am yet to hear a loudspeaker that gives give the same amount of detail in the same natural way and with the least amount of coloration as a Stax system does for a reasonable price (e.g. 10kUSD for a pair of speaker, I still consider very reasonable). With the 009 and the reproduction of the high frequencies in particular, I think there are only very few tweeters out there that can come any close, and I am no giving a price limit here.
   
  As for the usual argumentation about what headphones cannot do and all, well, best is to leave that for another thread because it's not news with the 009. I also don't buy your argument that the price justifies talking about this. For instance,  go see the threads with +5kUSD headphone amps, nobody's going there and saying that speaker is the way to go then...
   
  Having said all that, no question that 5kUSD is too much for a headphone!! I bit the bullet and don't regret a thing though but I'd still wish it could have been cheaper, especially for those who can't stretch it that far.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *arnaud* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Dear Lunatique: I'd say, wait until you hear the 009 before proclaiming that your speaker are so much better. As for your arguing about the multiple drivers, it's a pretty false statement. People don't use multiple drivers for the sake of having more tuning options but simply because they can't achieve proper results with a single driver. Absolutely nothing in multi-driver loudspeakers helps with better sound reproduction:
> > Non coincident driver yield severe directivity patterns which are particularly nasty for listening in nearfield
> ...


 

  
  It all depends on what company and what speakers I think. Klein + Hummel are damn good at what they do, and they've managed to do some incredible design/engineering with the O 300D. The guys that run Sound On Sound have heard plenty of high-end studio monitors, and the O 300D remains one of their absolute favorites in all the years they've done professional monitor reviews.
   
  For me personally, even if the SR-009 has mind-blowing detail retrieval beyond any speakers I've ever heard, it is still a compromise in the grand scheme of what "satisfying" audio reproduction is to me. Without the visceral impact, powerful dynamics, and life-like dimensionality we take for granted with speakers, no amount of detail can make up for the missing qualities I would never want to be without when I want to experience sonic bliss.
   
  Man, I so wish we lived close to each other. I'd totally invite you to my studio so we can listen to each other's rig and compare notes. It would be so much fun!


----------



## arnaud

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> For me personally, even if the SR-009 has mind-blowing detail retrieval beyond any speakers I've ever heard, it is still a compromise in the grand scheme of what "satisfying" audio reproduction is to me. Without the visceral impact, powerful dynamics, and life-like dimensionality we take for granted with speakers, no amount of detail can make up for the missing qualities I would never want to be without when I want to experience sonic bliss.
> 
> Man, I so wish we lived close to each other. I'd totally invite you to my studio so we can listen to each other's rig and compare notes. It would be so much fun!


 

 Fair enough, I agree that some may never get fully satisfied with headphones. I am glad that I can make abstraction of these inherent differences and enjoy headphone without feeling I am missing speakers.
   
  As for listening to your studio rig, indeed I am curious! I just googled your place in China and, while we're not that far, and although I do travel fairly frequently to China, I doubt I could get any closer than Chongqing or Shanghai! Maybe someday though, or you can always come to Tokyo to sample the 009 
   
  cheers, arnaud


----------



## Nom de Plume

I feel like an idiot... Nvm.
  (Look below to see why)


----------



## deadlylover

Quote: 





nom de plume said:


> I'm sorry, but >200,000?
> Demoing a different rig daily demands roughly 540 years; the world doesn't even offer 200,000+ different speaker rigs. Embellishment also has boundaries.


 
   
  Probably was referring to price =P.


----------



## Syan25

Tks - Jude - great video!


----------



## Tronz

Hey Jude, how would you compare the detail retrieval of the SR-009 to say your best custom IEM's?


----------



## BattleBrat

Quote: 





deadlylover said:


> Probably was referring to price =P.


 


  Yes, I was. I've heard a pair of 007's on a Blue Hawaii, I'm sorry it wasn't even close, I'd say the biggest drawback is the soundstage/imaging.
   
  I'm not saying headphones are bad, but if you have the room (and understanding neighbors) I feel speakers are better at copying a live performance/source, and isn't that what its all about?


----------



## deadlylover

Quote: 





battlebrat said:


> Yes, I was. I've heard a pair of 007's on a Blue Hawaii, I'm sorry it wasn't even close, I'd say the biggest drawback is the soundstage/imaging.
> 
> I'm not saying headphones are bad, but if you have the room (and understanding neighbors) I feel speakers are better at copying a live performance/source, and isn't that what its all about?


 
   
  Not really, the music I listen to is mostly synthetic(?) anyway, so there aren't any rules or expectations in how it should sound live.
   
  I just prefer the presentation of sound that a headphone can deliver, I also fully accept that headphones can never sound like speakers or a live performance because of the goofy soundstage and lack of visceral impact.
   
  I view the sound through headphones as a completely different experience, and not some sort of compromise to speakers or live sound.


----------



## Nom de Plume

Speaker rigs can fetch 200k USD?!
  (I feel like an idiot)
  
  Quote: 





deadlylover said:


> Probably was referring to price =P.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





nom de plume said:


> Speaker rigs can fetch 200k USD?!
> (I feel like an idiot)


 

 http://www.higherfi.com/spkrlist/speakerlist.htm


----------



## Gu Sensei

Great review Jude. I nodded vigorously in agreement throughout, particularly every time you mentioned the word 'details.' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have had my pair for a few weeks and am just blown away by the resolving power of these headphones. I had no idea such information was even available on a typical Redbook recording.
   
  Another key term I think is transparency. There is a lot  to subjective interpretation, but I feel these are by far the least colored headphones I have ever heard. I personally feel the LCD2s, HD800s, O2s all have distinct voices in comparison.
   
  Somehow, this extreme resolution and transparency does not mean these cans are only useful for high end recordings of classical and acoustic music. No doubt those recording are stunning and allow the 009s to shine at their best, but almost all of the rock, funk, new wave, soul, and alternative tracks that dominate my library sound better than they ever have. I occasionally wish for a little more euphonic distortion of the signal to help out lesser recordings, but mostly I don't. And, I will be keeping my D7000s around for that. Everything else will go. These are The One for me. Woot woot!
   
  Oh, and here is my office rig that I am using them most with:
   
  Lossless files off a Mac: Stock PS Audio DLIII: SRM-323S: 009s
   
  If there is improvement to be had by moving up to a better digital source or one of the high end boutique Stax amps, these babies will show it. Maybe someday I will invest in another amp; however, as it stands, the rig above is *extremely* satisfying and bests all of the very high end source/amp/phones combos I have ever tried by a significant margin. They are a bit cheaper here in Japan, but the financial hit I am taking is going to be significantly lessened as it allows me to clean out most of my dynamic gear not to mention the list of phones that I would like to try has shrunk from about a dozen to zero. The hunt is over.
   
  To address a couple of other points...
   
  Speakers vs. Phones?
  Sure, I like speakers better but can't set up a sweet speaker rig in my office where I am able to do most of my music listening. Also, the listening experience with headphones is different and has it's own unique charms.
   
  Improved Listening Pleasure?
  I can be thoroughly engrossed watching the Matrix on a laptop, but there are some extra layers of enjoyment added by moving up to a 50" hi def plasma panel and a Bluray player. There is more to music than just a beat and catchy lyrics, the beauty of the instruments or voice and masterful producing can be a source of pleasure as well, much more so through capable transducers. Listening to different high end phones and speakers have taught me to appreciate high fidelity reproduction of music. I can enjoy less, but I am happy to have that extra layer.
   
  Not everyone will feel this way, but no headphones have touched my ears that are as emotional engaging and analytically rewarding as these.


----------



## Currawong

This would make for a good discussion in October at the FujiyaAvic show *hint* *hint*.


----------



## Scottsmrnyc

How about the distance between the earspeaker pads and your ears?  Is there any scratch or scraffing of your ears to the earspeaker elements as there is with the SR007s?


----------



## Scottsmrnyc

Jude, how come you didn't mention that the new SR009s can always be used with the Stax SRM007t or SRM007ta headphone amp; afterall these are the amps made by the same company???????


----------



## Scottsmrnyc

Money and Expense is a relative term. $5000 for a headphone might be a lot to one person and not to another.  How about $5000 for cigarettes a year?  or $5000 for car expenses instead of taking public transportation and contributing to the well being of the environment.  It is all just a matter of how the buyer wants to sacrifice.


----------



## Scottsmrnyc

Those sellers who are offering the Orpheus Headphones and Amps for $30,000 should be ashamed of themselves.  They know that they only paid $14,000 for it new.


----------



## Syan25

Really? OMG - glad I'm not one of those who bought one then!


----------



## Nom de Plume

You're discussing value; money and expense aren't relative.
  
  Quote: 





scottsmrnyc said:


> Money and Expense is a relative term. $5000 for a headphone might be a lot to one person and not to another.  How about $5000 for cigarettes a year?  or $5000 for car expenses instead of taking public transportation and contributing to the well being of the environment.  It is all just a matter of how the buyer wants to sacrifice.


 


   






 I wouldn't need to give a damn about living expenses in Korea for _years_ with that amount of dough! 
  
  Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> http://www.higherfi.com/spkrlist/speakerlist.htm


----------



## brat

hmm... does anyone know what are the desktop speakers on Jude's desk??


----------



## Syan25

I've also wondered about that - they look really nice but how do they sound - I expect good if Jude is using them


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





brat said:


> hmm... does anyone know what are the desktop speakers on Jude's desk??


 

 They look like Audio Engine A5's P4's.


----------



## Syan25

http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-P4
   
  passive speakers then...
   
http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-P4#tech-stuff
   
  They seem ok - but not as good as I thought they would be looking at the specs...


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





scottsmrnyc said:


> Money and Expense is a relative term. $5000 for a headphone might be a lot to one person and not to another.  How about $5000 for cigarettes a year?  or $5000 for car expenses ...


 


  It's a tough life, but someone's gotta live it...


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





syan25 said:


> http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-P4
> 
> passive speakers then...
> 
> ...


 
   
  They seem to get high praise from all of the online audio sites. Specs don't tell all, as we know here on headfi!


----------



## Syan25

So you've heard them?


----------



## wind016

Quote: 





nom de plume said:


> That's certainly the last word in affordability, eh?
> I wonder whether I'm willing to eat only ramen for the next 3 years...


 

 If you save up and eat ramen for 3 years, would the price of the 009s have dropped or possibly more used 009 units available? If you have a headphone rig already, some of those costs of the 009 rig are already sunk costs. Time to put the plan in action and join the 009 crew in 3 years. For now, I'll just stick with the 007.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





syan25 said:


> So you've heard them?


 

 I've owned a pair of A5's which are the internally amped version of the P4.  The P4's performance will depend on what you hook up to them.  The A5's are internally amped (amp is only in one of the two speakers, unlike pro-audio monitors which have dedicated amps for each speaker, and require individual volume adjustment - Adam has a method to use a single volume knob to control the volume to two speakers/amps).  I can only speak for the A5 - They are OK, but not great.  They basically take the loose form of pro-audio monitors.  They do add some convenient features like putting the volume on the front, and in a single knob, they also have a usb power port on top for powering an iPod or other portable device.  Sound is good, but is easily bested by actual pro monitors (Adam, Genelec, JBL, Mackie,etc.).  IMHO, of course.


----------



## Varley

I love my A5's with a passion


----------



## Syan25

I was thinking of the MR5s from Mackie - but i heard the bass was sub-standard. Not that I wanted bass - but that i just want good reference monitors - neutral and clean as a whistle.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





syan25 said:


> I was thinking of the MR5s from Mackie - but i heard the bass was sub-standard. Not that I wanted bass - but that i just want good reference monitors - neutral and clean as a whistle.


 

 What's your budget? Mackie monitors aren't exactly respected in the more more critical segment of the pro audio community. If you are after truly reference quality monitors, you can do FAR better than Mackie.


----------



## jude

The speakers in the videos are the Audioengine P4 (with bamboo chassis), powered by the Audioengine N22 desktop amplifier / headphone amplifier.  I'll be talking more about these (and another pair of small desktop speakers by Bowers & Wilkins) soon.
   
  Syan25, you may want to start a separate thread (and/or see if there's an existing one on the topic to continue), so that we can keep this thread on track.  (I'll be paying attention to that discussion, too, as I'm also interested in the topic.)


----------



## ericohgb

Quote:


jude said:


> The speakers in the videos are the Audioengine P4 (with bamboo chassis), powered by the Audioengine N22 desktop amplifier / headphone amplifier.  I'll be talking more about these (and another pair of small desktop speakers by Bowers & Wilkins) soon.
> 
> Syan25, you may want to start a separate thread (and/or see if there's an existing one on the topic to continue), so that we can keep this thread on track.  (I'll be paying attention to that discussion, too, as I'm also interested in the topic.)


 


 Dear Jude,
  Congrats on the review!
  Did the SR-009 you were testind present any ling of channel imbalance during your listening sessions?
  Regards,
  Erico


----------



## jude

Quote: 





ericohgb said:


> ...Did the SR-009 you were testind present any ling of channel imbalance during your listening sessions?


 

 Erico, the SR-009 I borrowed from Jack Wu (Woo Audio) did not have a channel imbalance issue.


----------



## Syan25

That sounds cool


----------



## Snake Eyes

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> The bank will give you a loan for that new sports car or boat though.  You've got to drop that 12k in one hit.  Walk in to a bank and tell them you need a loan for your headphone rig and see what kind of stares you get.


 

 As a matter of fact I got a loan when I bought my Rudistor RP-1000 MkII amp and I got no weird stares but then again it all means more money for the greedy banks. For example get a loan for 18,000 and you will probably have to pay back $22,000 or more (+ more if you don't pay it back in time). In other words it's better to just save up for a while because think of all the things you could buy for $4,000. Oh well because of this new STAX headphone I will probably now sell everything.


----------



## Shike

Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> Specs don't tell all, as we know here on headfi!


 
   
  Specs don't, but real measurements could tell a lot.   Differences in opinions, sound, and how this should lead design . . . all that jazz.
   
   
  Still, I feel like I did when a friend was giving a presentation mentioning space age polymer for lulz.  It's space age, who gives a crap about the cost?  If I still liked stats I might actually agree with that statement


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





snake eyes said:


> As a matter of fact I got a loan when I bought my Rudistor RP-1000 MkII amp and I got no weird stares but then again it all means more money for the greedy banks. For example get a loan for 18,000 and you will probably have to pay back $22,000 or more (+ more if you don't pay it back in time). In other words it's better to just save up for a while because think of all the things you could buy for $4,000. Oh well because of this new STAX headphone I will probably now sell everything.


 

 Wow.  That's actually pretty amazing...


----------



## Syan25

indeed it is!


----------



## davidhunternyc

Thank you, Jude, for mentioning the superlative build quality of the SR-009 in your review. For headphones this expensive and this exemplary I wouldn't expect anything less from Stax. The SR-009 may go down in history as one of the greatest sounding headphones ever made but add to this that it is also one of the greatest built and beautiful (perhaps second only to the Qualia 001) headphones ever made and, wow, we have something very special indeed...
   
  ...with that said, c'mon guys, this headphone is just begging the question; In absolute terms, how does the SR-009 compare to the JH-3A system?


----------



## visualguy

Quote: 





scottsmrnyc said:


> Jude, how come you didn't mention that the new SR009s can always be used with the Stax SRM007t or SRM007ta headphone amp; afterall these are the amps made by the same company???????


 

 The only part of the review that I disagreed with is the need for a $5K+ amp. The SR-009 sound fabulous with the SRM-007ta, SRM-727a, SRM-323S and, of course, the KGSS.
   
  Stax really got it right with these headphones - what an achievement!


----------



## wind016

Quote: 





visualguy said:


> The only part of the review that I disagreed with is the need for a $5K+ amp. The SR-009 sound fabulous with the SRM-007ta, SRM-727a, SRM-323S and, of course, the KGSS.
> 
> Stax really got it right with these headphones - what an achievement!


 

 Oh really? That would be very impressive. Did you get to hear it through a 323s and KGSS? I would like some links to impressions if you did or if you read it somewhere else. I have a 323s and a KGSS coming in. If the 009 really sounds good out of those, I may see a 009 in my rig in the near future.
   
  If it sounds good through those amps, I don't think it is fair to say the Stax 009 is a guaranteed $10k+ investment like in the youtube review since it seems they are very efficient.


----------



## grokit

Has anybody tried the SR-009 out of a Woo WEE?


----------



## visualguy

Quote: 





wind016 said:


> Oh really? That would be very impressive. Did you get to hear it through a 323s and KGSS? I would like some links to impressions if you did or if you read it somewhere else. I have a 323s and a KGSS coming in. If the 009 really sounds good out of those, I may see a 009 in my rig in the near future.
> 
> If it sounds good through those amps, I don't think it is fair to say the Stax 009 is a guaranteed $10k+ investment like in the youtube review since it seems they are very efficient.


 

 I own all these amps. The 009 sound slightly better on the KGSS than the 007ta/727a/323S, but they're all excellent. Quite frankly, I find that the difference between amps is highly exaggerated on Head-Fi in general.


----------



## pachku

Highly exagerrated? Well, the upgrade from the 007t to the BHSE is not subtle, they are not even close. Haven't heard those other amps, but that statement sound highly generalized to me


----------



## visualguy

Quote: 





pachku said:


> Highly exagerrated? Well, the upgrade from the 007t to the BHSE is not subtle, they are not even close. Haven't heard those other amps, but that statement sound highly generalized to me


 

  
  In what way do the 009 sound different with the BHSE than the 007t? Since you're saying "not even close", it should be easy for you to describe the difference.
   
  There are differences among the KGSS, 007ta, 727a, 323S, but they are subtle. Even though the KGSS is the best among them, it's not by much. I rarely use the KGSS these days because it's too big and inconvenient to use, while not offering much of a sound advantage when compared to the other ones. The BHSE would be even more of a pain to use with its serious space requirements and heat generation.
   
  With dynamic headphones, the differences between amps are even more insignificant, of course.


----------



## Syan25

That's the safer way - with buying dynamic headphones...


----------



## NA Blur

I appreciate your review.  Like many are going to mention these headphones are quite simply too expensive.
   
  Has anyone out there compared this combo to the Grace m903 + Denon AH-D2000?  I would be surprised if the cost of any electrostatic amp that includes the SR-009 as the base headphone, surpasses the Grace m903 + Denon AH-D2000 setup by an audible factor of 2 or more; which is the minimum cost factor.


----------



## wind016

Quote: 





na blur said:


> I appreciate your review.  Like many are going to mention these headphones are quite simply too expensive.
> 
> Has anyone out there compared this combo to the Grace m903 + Denon AH-D2000?  I would be surprised if the cost of any electrostatic amp that includes the SR-009 as the base headphone, surpasses the Grace m903 + Denon AH-D2000 setup by an audible factor of 2 or more; which is the minimum cost factor.


 

 My current Stax setup, SR323s and 007 mk1, costed me $2300. I don't think even the Denon D7000 which I owned before with any amp came close to the 007 mk1.


----------



## pachku

Quote: 





> Like many are going to mention these headphones are quite simply too expensive.


 
   
  That's kind of an absolute statement on a relative fact - doesn't really work. We all know the law of diminishing returns, but when and where your personal balance point is reached is highly subjective. If you don't mind me asking - what are you doing in a thread discussing a headphone that you'll never buy? Are you expecting those who did to feel bad about it? Or to justify ourselves? I don't think so. If you're happy with your AH-D2000, good on ya. Me, I always tend to think that the grass will be greener beyond the next hill, so I have no problem spending money for something I like and want. Times may change, or I may reach a point where I'm content, one never knows. To give you an idea about the level we're discussing here - I have the HD-800 on the Isabellina LVF-P, and the LCD-2 on the Burson 160D, both very good and well reviewed combos - and they see no land against the BHSE / 009, or even the 007t/009. Both of your components have been - sometimes harshly - critized in other threads, so it speaks for you that you go ahead and praise them, but I for myself wouldn't dare offering an opinion about them - about price or quality. So before you've heard a good electrostatic rig, you can't offer an opinion about the value. Believe it or not, you don't have to be a musical genius to hear and appreciate the difference between a mainstream dynamic headphone and a great 'stat setup. Whether you want to spend the money is another thing, but price / value can't be measured objectively.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





na blur said:


> Has anyone out there compared this combo to the Grace m903 + Denon AH-D2000?  I would be surprised if the cost of any electrostatic amp that includes the SR-009 as the base headphone, surpasses the Grace m903 + Denon AH-D2000 setup by an audible factor of 2 or more; which is the minimum cost factor.


 

 how bout that i would rather listen to my JH-13's out of my iPhone for the rest of my life than listen to the D2000's out of a m903  the D2000's arent even close to what i (or anyone else, or at least most) would consider to be a top end phone. they arent nearly transparent or neutral enough to be that at all.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





wind016 said:


> I don't think even the Denon D7000 which I owned before with any amp came close to the 007 mk1.


 

 When I first auditioned the 007mk2 (with the 717 amp), I brought my D7000 to compare, and I ran it out of the Corda Symphony.2, as well as the SPL Phonitor. The Stax completely and utterly destroyed the D7000 in just about every way possible. The only thing the Denon was good at was having a lot of fun in the bass department, although it was not accurate/neutral--it has this constant resonance in the sub-bass. I ended up selling my D7000 when I got the LCD-2 and the Stax rig.


----------



## Syan25

Sounds like a dream set up!


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Great episode. Kudos!


----------



## Snake Eyes

I don't know if I will buy these new STAX's after all because last night I discovered a headphone that's been right under my nose all this time. They're so different than the HD800's in a sense that listening to them you hear things that you didn't hear via the HD800's so you go back to the HD800's just to make sure. The sounds are there in the Sennheiser's BUT... the sounds that stood out in the other headphone sound so veiled and quite via the Sennheiser's. It's so weird because you hear things and to me I get the feeling that it would really sound like that. To me it just sounds right but that's just my opinion so far. More listening will happen tonight although at a sensible time because 1:00am isn't a sensible time (for a working person). Anyway these are my Dad's headphones (he has had them ever since I was a kid) and they're called Alpha Model HP501W 2 Way Stereo Headphone (they've got adjustable volume and brilliance knobs on them). I googled that but I couldn't find anything. Does anyone know anything about these headphones? Anyway about the STAX's apparently a friend of a friend of mine claims he can get them for me a lot cheaper than $6000, $7000 or whatever they're selling for in Australia. The Woo Audio site sells them for $5200 I think. Are theses STAX headphones a limited edition thing like the HE90's were???


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





snake eyes said:


> I don't know if I will buy these new STAX's after all because last night I discovered a headphone that's been right under my nose all this time. They're so different than the HD800's in a sense that listening to them you hear things that you didn't hear via the HD800's so you go back to the HD800's just to make sure. The sounds are there in the Sennheiser's BUT... the sounds that stood out in the other headphone sound so veiled and quite via the Sennheiser's. It's so weird because you hear things and to me I get the feeling that it would really sound like that. To me it just sounds right but that's just my opinion so far. More listening will happen tonight although at a sensible time because 1:00am isn't a sensible time (for a working person). Anyway these are my Dad's headphones (he has had them ever since I was a kid) and they're called Alpha Model HP501W 2 Way Stereo Headphone (they've got adjustable volume and brilliance knobs on them). I googled that but I couldn't find anything. Does anyone know anything about these headphones? Anyway about the STAX's apparently a friend of a friend of mine claims he can get them for me a lot cheaper than $6000, $7000 or whatever they're selling for in Australia. The Woo Audio site sells them for $5200 I think. Are theses STAX headphones a limited edition thing like the HE90's were???


 

 It's very likely that your dad's headphones have a different frequency response to the HD-800s, so instruments that are strong in a particular frequency are being emphasised more by the other headphones and less by the HD-800s.
   
  The landed price for Australians on pricejapan.com is AU$4044.


----------



## grokit

Quote:           





currawong said:


> It's very likely that your dad's headphones have a different frequency response to the HD-800s, so instruments that are strong in a particular frequency are being emphasised more by the other headphones and less by the HD-800s.
> 
> The landed price for Australians on pricejapan.com is AU$4044.


 

 Why so cheap? Current exchange rate is USD $5,200.00 = AUD $4,895.80


----------



## Currawong

Cheaper because they are bought and shipped directly from Japan.


----------



## Snake Eyes

Oh okay... different frequency response. The thing I don't like about the HD800's is that everything sounds so distant but then again it's probably my CD player, amplifier, both or that I don't have them balanced. Oh well Christmas time and I will have a new source, amplifier + those new STAX headphones and hopefully that will satisy me. If not the search continues 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Anyway about the guy I know who claims he can get them for a lot cheaper I just have to wait for his e-mail. If the price beats the pricejapan.com price I will tell you all about it so we can all get it for cheaper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Will there be a headphone show in Cairns anytime soon???


----------



## rovex

I assume this headphone is built to order seeing as Stax can't be selling that many. Personally I'd rather invest that kind of money on a complete hi fi system equipped with a very good amp.


----------



## arnaud

Quote: 





rovex said:


> I assume this headphone is built to order seeing as Stax can't be selling that many. Personally I'd rather invest that kind of money on a complete hi fi system equipped with a very good amp.


 


  Not sure what means "built to order" here. If you imply that Stax isn't going to manufacture 3000 pairs until they realize that only a 1000 are selling in a year, then yes you're probably right. If you imply that Stax builds each unit only after getting it ordered, then it's probably wrong as Stax a) is sold largely through regular stores in Japan who must have stock, b) must be ready for servicing the product with a reasonable turnaround so they must have stock in house eventually, c) like with its other products, does not renew until at least 2 years have past so even if they produced too much at once, they'd have plenty of time to sell afterwards.
   
  I think you're probably thinking of a one man operation who can't build some expensive product until pre-orders are partial payment is made (like most boutique amps sold through word of mouth on head-fi). Stax is small, but not that small...
   
  Then, if this is in regards to price and thus selling in small quantities, in any case there aren't like millions of Stax headphones sold in a year so no matter how you look at the numbers this is all fairly small production runs, SR009 or not.
   
  Finally, for the speaker system, please let me know when you've put the full rig together for say 10kUSD, I want to bring my Stax and compare .


----------



## Ocellia

Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> I wonder if I'll have enough money for this when I'm 60 years old...Goal: set.


 
  I AM 60, and still not! And the way the world economy etc is going, you NEVER will! Groan!
   
   
   
   
   
   
  I read that the USA is technically bankrupt this week, for example!
   
  Let's all move to China then (who own the US?), but......no; wages rather lower there!


----------



## davidhunternyc

Quote: 





snake eyes said:


> The thing I don't like about the HD800's is that everything sounds so distant but then again it's probably my CD player, amplifier, both or that I don't have them balanced.


 

 When I listened to the HD800's out of a Woo amp at a Head-Fi meet, I felt the same way. The HD800's sounded distant and veiled.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





na blur said:


> I appreciate your review.  Like many are going to mention these headphones are quite simply too expensive.
> 
> Has anyone out there compared this combo to the Grace m903 + Denon AH-D2000?  I would be surprised if the cost of any electrostatic amp that includes the SR-009 as the base headphone, surpasses the Grace m903 + Denon AH-D2000 setup by an audible factor of 2 or more; which is the minimum cost factor.


----------



## earfanatic

I am actually going to buy one of these.
  I do not care the price.
  I mean 20-30 years from now these must be an affordabe pair of headphones right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  If it is the best earphones ever made in 2011, then it will be good enough for me in 2041 too.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





earfanatic said:


> I am actually going to buy one of these.
> I do not care the price.
> I mean 20-30 years from now these must be an affordabe pair of headphones right?
> 
> ...


 
  There is no such thing as the "Best" HEADphones ever made. It's all personal taste once you're up to the flagships. Most, if not all, people will tell you the SR-009 is superior to pretty much everything, but I know it's signature doesn't fit my musical taste as well as some other cans.If your tastes fit the high-end Stax signature though, you're in for a hell of a treat.


----------



## earfanatic

Quote: 





> There is no such thing as the "Best" HEADphones ever made. It's all personal taste once you're up to the flagships. Most, if not all, people will tell you the SR-009 is superior to pretty much everything, but I know it's signature doesn't fit my musical taste as well as some other cans.If your tastes fit the high-end Stax signature though, you're in for a hell of a treat.


 
   
  I do not know yet. We will see in 30 years!


----------



## AudioRook

Great review, Jude!


----------



## KingLocal

I am am looking to downsize a speaker rig to headphones--I am at my desk all day and so almost never listen to my speaker rig.  I have heard Stax at shows and such, and was impressed.  But, considering what I can sell my speakers for, I could EITHER get a pair of O2s and a very high-end headphone amp, OR get the 009s and a more modest amp (e.g. 717); I simply cannot afford the 009s and a top-tier amp--as Jude suggests (though many have opined that the 009 is more forgiving of amps than the O2s).  So, my question: would I be better off with the top-tier cans and a good amp or a mega-amp and some very good cans?  Given the difficulty of seeking out high-end can/amp combinations for demo., any thoughts and/or suggestions would be very, very welcome.  Thanks.  BTW, I love the Head-Fi video podcasts, they are a super addition to a great site!  Please, keep up the good work.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





kinglocal said:


> I am am looking to downsize a speaker rig to headphones--I am at my desk all day and so almost never listen to my speaker rig.  I have heard Stax at shows and such, and was impressed.  But, considering what I can sell my speakers for, I could EITHER get a pair of O2s and a very high-end headphone amp, OR get the 009s and a more modest amp (e.g. 717); I simply cannot afford the 009s and a top-tier amp--as Jude suggests (though many have opined that the 009 is more forgiving of amps than the O2s).  So, my question: would I be better off with the top-tier cans and a good amp or a mega-amp and some very good cans?  Given the difficulty of seeking out high-end can/amp combinations for demo., any thoughts and/or suggestions would be very, very welcome.  Thanks.  BTW, I love the Head-Fi video podcasts, they are a super addition to a great site!  Please, keep up the good work.


 

 Personally, if I were in your shoes, I would just get the LCD-2 and use standard pro audio headphone amp. I really don't feel the expensive Stax rigs are so much better that their prices are justified. I also don't believe that expensive amps are justified because they really don't sound significantly better than just standard $100 pro audio monitor/headphone controllers/amps. Will you hear any differences? Yeah, probably. But are those differences worth spending the extra thousands of dollars? For me, hell no. The differences are not that dramatic at all in terms of overall sonic enjoyment. The money you save could be spend on so many other things in life.


----------



## KingLocal

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> Personally, if I were in your shoes, I would just get the LCD-2 and use standard pro audio headphone amp. I really don't feel the expensive Stax rigs are so much better that their prices are justified. I also don't believe that expensive amps are justified because they really don't sound significantly better than just standard $100 pro audio monitor/headphone controllers/amps. Will you hear any differences? Yeah, probably. But are those differences worth spending the extra thousands of dollars? For me, hell no. The differences are not that dramatic at all in terms of overall sonic enjoyment. The money you save could be spend on so many other things in life.


 
   

  ... an interesting take,*Lunatique*, one I will certainly consider.  
   
  I have not heard the LCD-2, but I have been very favorably impressed with the Hifi-Mans that are often mentioned in the same breath.  I am going to buy a Smyth Realizer (I am waiting on some revisions that I was promised but that seem to have been delayed, no surprise there); I am not sure whether Smyth will sell you a Realizer without a Stax rig.  After speaking to them in person, the best answer I could get was: "You do have to buy the Stax 'package' with our processor... except for when you don't."  Anyway, although they say that their processor will work with any cans, they *strongly** *prefer the Staxs.  So, anyway, if I do have to go the Stax rout....
   
  As for hearing (big) differences between amps, I am not at all familiar with headphones in the way I am with speaker rigs (which is why I am posting questions here), but I have heard similar claims about AC cables, digital front-ends, isolation shelves, etc. (e.g. they make no/little difference), and have found through experience that although the differences they yield may be small, these can be *all* the difference between a convincing and engaging system and one that is far less so.  Again, maybe the same is not true for head-amps, but I am hesitant to give away sound quality....


----------



## arnesto

Lunatique, I hope you don't take this the wrong way or anything like that.
   
  But don't you own the Stax SR007 headphones? If it was worth it for you, why don't you think it will be worth it for someone else?
   
  I think anyone reading this tread should first listen to the SR009, and if you can afford it. Go for it. Life if too short to listen to music from inferior headphones.


  
  Quote: 





lunatique said:


> Personally, if I were in your shoes, I would just get the LCD-2 and use standard pro audio headphone amp. I really don't feel the expensive Stax rigs are so much better that their prices are justified. I also don't believe that expensive amps are justified because they really don't sound significantly better than just standard $100 pro audio monitor/headphone controllers/amps. Will you hear any differences? Yeah, probably. But are those differences worth spending the extra thousands of dollars? For me, hell no. The differences are not that dramatic at all in terms of overall sonic enjoyment. The money you save could be spend on so many other things in life.


----------



## wind016

Don't settle for less. Go with Stax. They're like sex.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





arnesto said:


> Lunatique, I hope you don't take this the wrong way or anything like that.
> 
> But don't you own the Stax SR007 headphones? If it was worth it for you, why don't you think it will be worth it for someone else?
> 
> I think anyone reading this tread should first listen to the SR009, and if you can afford it. Go for it. Life if too short to listen to music from inferior headphones.


 
   
  Yes, and I think about selling the Stax rig all the time, but I don't really need the money at the moment and I don't mind having a different flavor around in my studio just for the sake of kicks and giggles. Right now the Stax rig is just an luxury item to me--one I rarely even turn on (maybe once a couple of months, sometimes longer).
   
  Before comparing the 007mk2 to the LCD-2, I was so in love with the 007mk2, because I originally had the D7000 as my main headphone and the 007mk2 just completely destroyed the D7000. But once I got the LCD-2, everything changed. After extensively comparing the LCD-2 to my other headphones and my speakers, my definitive conclusion is that the LCD-2 does everything I need it to do once I apply my custom EQ curve to it. Other headphones can be EQ'd too, but the starting point of the LCD-2 is so good that it just gets closer to my ideal of neutral/accurate, while other headphones, even with EQ, are still a bit behind.
   
  I did so much intensive A/B comparison and EQ comparisons between the LCD-2 and the 007mk2 that I know their sonic signatures like the back of my hands, and the 007mk2 really doesn't bring anything more to the table in terms of actual enjoyment. Its ethereal elegance, speed, and treble detail are all good things, but it's not like the LCD-2 are bad in those departments--it's just that they are more exaggerated on the 007mk2. The LCD-2 is so full-bodied, solid, detailed, and natural sounding that you just can't find anything really missing, and if you it to be a bit brighter like some people, just EQ it, and it'll be pretty much perfect. When the 007mk2 is EQ'd, it still cannot convey the same sense of gravity because electrostatic drivers just have that lightness in its sense of weight. From all the comments about the 009 I've read, it too cannot escape that inherent sonic signature of the electrostatic driver. It's not a "fault," but simply the basic characteristic of the electrostatic technology. None of my other headphones can reach LCD-2's quality even when EQ'd--that's why it is the king of all my headphones (but it still is just a headphone and cannot compete against my Klein + Hummel O 300D's in terms dimensionality, visceral impact, and overall sense of engagement).
   
  I'm a pretty pragmatic guy. I never wanted to "collect" headphones. I might spend a lot of time and money to find what I'm looking for, but it was always with the goal of finding "the one" that I can be totally satisfied with, and along the way I ended up with more headphones than I need. I could sell them all tomorrow and keep just the LCD-2, and I wouldn't miss any of them (but I'll keep the M50 because I need at least one good closed-back cans for doing tracking). I haven't sold them simply because I don't need the money at the moment and I enjoy having different flavors to double-check my mixes and masters on.


----------



## wind016

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> Yes, and I think about selling the Stax rig all the time, but I don't really need the money at the moment and I don't mind having a different flavor around in my studio just for the sake of kicks and giggles. Right now the Stax rig is just an luxury item to me--one I rarely even turn on (maybe once a couple of months, sometimes longer).
> 
> Before comparing the 007mk2 to the LCD-2, I was so in love with the 007mk2, because I originally had the D7000 as my main headphone and the 007mk2 just completely destroyed the D7000. But once I got the LCD-2, everything changed. After extensively comparing the LCD-2 to my other headphones and my speakers, my definitive conclusion is that the LCD-2 does everything I need it to do once I apply my custom EQ curve to it. Other headphones can be EQ'd too, but the starting point of the LCD-2 is so good that it just gets closer to my ideal of neutral/accurate, while other headphones, even with EQ, are still a bit behind.
> 
> ...


 


  True words, but when I auditioned the LCD2, it didn't move me as much as the Stax O2 mk1.  I wanted something that sounds special and the Stax effortless sound is it. The O2 mk1 is the most relaxing, non-fatiguing headphone I've ever heard and to be as detailed as it is, is a wonderful plus. I have a similar feeling about headphones and I'm just going end with the O2 mk1. An O2 mk1 rig doesn't cost much more than an LCD2 rig.


----------



## arnesto

I thought I wanted the Stax 007 headphones until I listened to them. They were a dissapointment to me.
   
  I just felt they didn't have the slam I was used to with dynamic headphones.
   
  But I really liked the Orpheus headphones and if the 009 headphones are better?
   
  I have to listen to them first to know, but if they are better than the Orpheus, then I want to get a pair.
   
  Just my two cents.


----------



## wind016

Quote: 





arnesto said:


> I thought I wanted the Stax 007 headphones until I listened to them. They were a dissapointment to me.
> 
> I just felt they didn't have the slam I was used to with dynamic headphones.
> 
> ...


 

 What is different about the Orpheus and slam? I think slam also equates to fatigue.


----------



## arnesto

The Orpheus just had a different presentation. For example, the sound of cymbals had a sparkle to it. It didn't sound flat, maybe slam was the wrong word used to describe the sound. 
   
  I just felt the 007 sounded flat and boring. I'm just trying to describe it the best as I can. I think maybe the proportion of bass, mid range, and highs didn't sound realistic to me.  
   
  Quote:


wind016 said:


> What is different about the Orpheus and slam? I think slam also equates to fatigue.


----------



## wind016

Quote: 





arnesto said:


> The Orpheus just had a different presentation. For example, the sound of cymbals had a sparkle to it. It didn't sound flat, maybe slam was the wrong word used to describe the sound.
> 
> I just felt the 007 sounded flat and boring. I'm just trying to describe it the best as I can. I think maybe the proportion of bass, mid range, and highs didn't sound realistic to me.
> 
> Quote:


 

 Gotcha. I just made a short impressions thread and I talked about a similar feeling initially. I was underwhelmed with it's rather soft, inorganic sound, but came to really appreciate it a lot after a while.


----------



## Syltburken

To Jude: Do you even think it was better than the Sleek Audio CT20, that was like $3000 more?


----------



## arnaud

Quote: 





syltburken said:


> To Jude: Do you even think it was better than the Sleek Audio CT20, that was like $3000 more?


 

 Seriously? Come on, nothing beats a CT20.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Whats the amp near the laptop??? =)


----------



## wotts

It is the Audio Engine N22 I believe. http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-N22

  
  Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> Whats the amp near the laptop??? =)


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Ya I looked it up.  But they seem to be more of a speaker amp rather used as a HP amp... know anything about it? =)
  
  Quote: 





wotts said:


> It is the Audio Engine N22 I believe. http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-N22


----------



## slapfireguy

Jude:
   
  Great review.   You sound like I did in 1971 when I was at the Glaser Brothers Sound Studio in Nashville.  They had just installed their Daniel Flickinger console and their MCI 16 track machine.  I remember everyone commenting that they could never see why anyone would need more tracks on tape.  That quickly changed to 24 tracks. 
   
  I would love to borrow them for a weekend, but I don't want to buy headphones that I can't listen to when I go cruising down to the beach in my Maserati.
   
  As far as wanting them, I do!   You hooked me!
   
  As for buying them, I think we need to pass a debt ceiling bill first.


----------



## rgs9200m

A $5200 SR009 and a $5000 tubed Woo WES amp and it's "BRIGHT" ?? ( Go to  8:10 - 8:40 in the video).
  Uh-oh.


----------



## Music Daedalus

Personally, I had a chance to compare he90 and stax 009 on aristaeus, unfortunately, at that time I only got my arcam cd 23 with me. I will say 009 is a really nice headphone, the main difference with he90 is that 009 has a more direct presentation, more controlled bass, they are products with different ideas anyway, reflecting the different understanding of music.
   
  btw, I do not care to much about frequency distribution, extension to much. Good imaging and lively presentation style matters much more.
   
  also, I am curious, is a mac + da10 an eligible source for such a high end system.


----------



## jude

Quote: 





music daedalus said:


> Personally, I had a chance to compare he90 and stax 009 on aristaeus, unfortunately, at that time I only got my arcam cd 23 with me. I will say 009 is a really nice headphone, the main difference with he90 is that 009 has a more direct presentation, more controlled bass, they are products with different ideas anyway, reflecting the different understanding of music.
> 
> btw, I do not care to much about frequency distribution, extension to much. Good imaging and lively presentation style matters much more.
> 
> also, I am curious, is a mac + da10 an eligible source for such a high end system.


 

 MacBook Pro / MacBook Air --> Amarra --> Lavry DA11
   
  To answer your question:  _I_ definitely think so.  Of course, anyone who disagrees might then consider my opinion invalidated on that basis, and I can live with that.
   
  That said, I'm so happy with the DA11 that I bought two of them, because I was getting tired of toting the one I had back and forth between my home office and my office office.


----------



## El_Doug

100% high-end!  The DA10/11 is a top notch source, detailed and quick to the max. 
   
  Unless, of course, you define "high-end" by the price, and demand tubes, output capacitors, extra distortion, and significant rolloff - then the DA10/11 will disappoint you  
  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Music Daedalus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> also, I am curious, is a mac + da10 an eligible source for such a high end system.


----------



## pazto

Very nice episode, they're crazy stuff
  I wish I could afford sth like these (wonder who)


----------



## Syan25

Yeah, wish i could too///


----------



## milosolo

Wait... You're a guy?? And all this time I thought you were that hot girl in the avatar. Frankly I'm devastated...
  
  Quote: 





lunatique said:


> I'm a pretty pragmatic guy.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





milosolo said:


> Wait... You're a guy?? And all this time I thought you were that hot girl in the avatar. Frankly I'm devastated...


 
   
  Wait, you're not the anime girl in your avatar? I'm devastated too. . .. 
   
  My avatar is one of my favorite photos I've ever taken as a photographer, and it's my wife, Elena .


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> My avatar is one of my favorite photos I've ever taken as a photographer, and it's my wife, Elena .


 

 Lucky guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  and i vaguely remember this exact topic coming up earlier lol though maybe not in this thread


----------



## Currawong

I hope then nobody thinks I'm a 2yo girl who likes Stax.


----------



## Syan25

She is beautiful! You are one lucky man!
  
  Quote: 





lunatique said:


> Wait, you're not the anime girl in your avatar? I'm devastated too. . ..
> 
> My avatar is one of my favorite photos I've ever taken as a photographer, and it's my wife, Elena .


----------



## milosolo

I feel a LOT better now! Lucky man!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





lunatique said:


> Wait, you're not the anime girl in your avatar? I'm devastated too. . ..
> 
> My avatar is one of my favorite photos I've ever taken as a photographer, and it's my wife, Elena .


----------



## Lunatique

Yes, I am one of the lucky ones. Her looks is only half the story. She's also the most beautiful person on the inside I've ever met too. She is so good to me that it's absolutely embarrassing how pampered I am. 
  
  Quote: 





currawong said:


> I hope then nobody thinks I'm a 2yo girl who likes Stax.


 

 I always thought you were kind of precocious for a 2 yr-old.


----------



## Paganini Alfredo

Ok Lunatique, out with it...

How, when and where do the rest of us find a woman as awesome as yours???


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





paganini alfredo said:


> Ok Lunatique, out with it...
> 
> How, when and where do the rest of us find a woman as awesome as yours???


 

 Oh man, this is not an easy question to answer. I thought about it, and I ended up writing a very long reply, so I decided to post it as a separate thread in the Lounge area instead of making this thread more OT. Here's the link to the thread:
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/566961/meeting-the-one#post_7677795


----------



## Syan25

Hilarious! Are we still talking about the best headphones or the best woman ever made - or are they in fact the same....


----------



## Snake Eyes

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> Yes, I am one of the lucky ones. Her looks is only half the story. She's also the most beautiful person on the inside I've ever met too. She is so good to me that it's absolutely embarrassing how pampered I am.
> 
> 
> I always thought you were kind of precocious for a 2 yr-old.


 



 Does your wife have any sisters
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




???


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





snake eyes said:


> Does your wife have any sisters
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, but they are nothing alike--in both looks or personality.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> Yes, but they are nothing alike--in both looks or personality.


 


  Do they throw plates?


----------



## MulberryMadness

What ES amps will *not* drive these 'ultimate' high-end Stax well? There are plenty of Stax, and I assume other ES amps that you can find used, that sell for less than 1/2 the mentioned $5k entry point, even 1/10th that price. Jude should have done a dbl blind test, and determined just how little the difference would be.
   
  Suppose I should start a thread in the DIY, but Jude mentioned he's more mobile now, and since there exist some small tube portable battery powered amps (GoVibe porta tube being contended make the AKG K1000 "sing"), why couldn't an ES battery powered portable be designed? Something probably the size of the SR71A, don't you think?


----------



## n3rdling

Electrostats need MUCH more power to drive than conventional dynamics


----------



## MulberryMadness

Quote: 





n3rdling said:


> Electrostats need MUCH more power to drive than conventional dynamics


 
  Somehow, my OP to this thread, as well as this quote below, will still not be enough for *some* to comprehend the points being made 
   
  This is what Jaben Australia recently posted, FYI "K1000" = AKG K1000 _*electrostatic*_ 'earspeakers', infamous for their very high amplifier power requirements. Doesn't seem possible a portable battery powered tube amp of that relatively small size, could power, let alone make  the K1000 "sing" (and it's a SE 6.5.mm output jack, not designed as an electrostatic amp)
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/565928/we-re-loaning-and-giving-away-a-go-vibe-porta-tube-amp#post_7658898
  Quote: 





> I was spending a bit of time in Jaben Singapore and Malaysia (at the KL AV show) and I noticed something...
> The Go-Vibe Porta Tube is extremely popular.
> 
> The fame has even reached Japan!
> ...


----------



## arnaud

mulberrymadness said:


> Somehow, my OP to this thread, as well as this quote below, will still not be enough for *some* to comprehend the points being made
> 
> This is what Jaben Australia recently posted, FYI "K1000" = AKG K1000 _*electrostatic*_ 'earspeakers', infamous for their very high amplifier power requirements. Doesn't seem possible a portable battery powered tube amp of that relatively small size, could power, let alone make  the K1000 "sing" (and it's a SE 6.5.mm output jack, not designed as an electrostatic amp)
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/565928/we-re-loaning-and-giving-away-a-go-vibe-porta-tube-amp#post_7658898




Hehe, I think you need to double check your sources of info lol . Some tiny bit of background reading on headphone technologies would not hurt either...


----------



## n3rdling

Mulberry you have no clue what you're talking about, sorry.  Why don't you tell me what the impedance curve looks like for a K1000 vs an electrostat?


----------



## Uncle Erik

I have both palms on my face. And I'm thinking about asking the bartender to put a couple more palms on my face.

The K-1000 is NOT an electrostat. It's a dynamic.

I know. I have one right here.

As for a portable powering it... I'm going to print that out and use it to fertilize the lawn. That's some mighty fine nightsoil. (Caution: do not use nightsoil to fertilize anything you grow as food.)

If you look at the K-1000's owner's manual, it states that you need a power amp (one for speakers) with at least 8W of power.

From personal experience over the past five years of owning a K-1000, that's about right.


----------



## Lil' Knight

lol... the danger of being newbie.


----------



## ericohgb

No... it's not that bright. But it's a lot brighter than using the 007.

  
  Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> A $5200 SR009 and a $5000 tubed Woo WES amp and it's "BRIGHT" ?? ( Go to  8:10 - 8:40 in the video).
> Uh-oh.


----------



## leafhound

The SR-009 are fairly priced given they are at the very top end of headphones, it's nothing like paying out $57,000.00 for a Meridian DSP80000 speaker,


----------



## SabreWulf69

Where is that random dubstep at the end of the video from?


----------



## joe

It's from a track by Twis7 called "Ghetto Bass - Original Mix" from the Bass Rinse EP.  It's used courtesy of Play Me Records.


----------



## acetate

****...i wish i strike lottery today!


----------



## SkyKidFalken

should I get the Blue Hawaii or the Woo GES for electrostatic headphones


----------



## shinystuffbuyer

There is no denying the value proposition of these beauties. Affordability makes the difference.


----------



## Swimsonny

wow they look awesome, would love to hear them.


----------



## John2e

Quote: 





uncle erik said:


> I have both palms on my face. And I'm thinking about asking the bartender to put a couple more palms on my face.
> The K-1000 is NOT an electrostat. It's a dynamic.
> I know. I have one right here.
> As for a portable powering it... I'm going to print that out and use it to fertilize the lawn. That's some mighty fine nightsoil. (Caution: do not use nightsoil to fertilize anything you grow as food.)
> ...


 
  I am not sure how anyone sitting in a bar alone late on a Monday night, viewing head-fi and typing away on his i phone can be condescending!
   
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
   Nothing personal I just find it funny


----------



## Siva108

Have any of you guys tried the SR-009 with dubstep?
   
  How is it?
   
  Btw, is the SR--009 the most neutral headphone in existence? From the FR graphs at Innerfidelity the LCD 3 seems more neutral. Anyone who's listened to both here?


----------



## AlvinS

there is no best, but always better


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





alvins said:


> there is no best, but always better


 
  Not so....I agree with Jude. These are simply the best cans I've heard....period.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Not so....I agree with Jude. These are simply the best cans I've heard....period.


 
   
  Haha it continues to bring a smile to my face to see how happy you are with them and how much you like them, and to know i played a part in you getting them 
   
  ...not that my current "value" rig is too far off


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> Haha it continues to bring a smile to my face to see how happy you are with them and how much you like them, and to know i played a part in you getting them
> 
> *...not that my current "value" rig is too far off *


 
   
  Far from "value rig". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've always wanted a pair of JH13s.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Far from "value rig".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  lol i was referring to the HE-6s and F1 in lew of the 009s and amp to go with them
   
  i love my JH-13s still, amazing headphones. and i can only imagine how much better they are now with the freqphase and triple bores to match the 16s....id love to hear some


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> lol i was referring to the HE-6s and F1 in lew of the 009s and amp to go with them
> 
> i love my JH-13s still, amazing headphones. and i can only imagine how much better they are now with the freqphase and triple bores to match the 16s....id love to hear some


 
  I was referring to both the HE-6/F1 and your JH13s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I previously owned the HE-6s and loved them for the year I had with them.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I was referring to both the HE-6/F1 and your JH13s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  indeed, and i would love to hear the LCD-3s...hopefully that will happen some day not too far in the future. This way i can see why you chose the LCD-3s instead, cuase most of the people who choose the LCD-3s are rock/metal listeners like yourself, whereas most people who prefer the HE-6s prefer other genres...my goal was just getting something as similar to the 009s as possible though, which is what ive got in the 6s, i dont think the LCD-3s are even close tonally


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> indeed, and i would love to hear the LCD-3s...hopefully that will happen some day not too far in the future. This way i can see why you chose the LCD-3s instead, cuase most of the people who choose the LCD-3s are rock/metal listeners like yourself, whereas most people who prefer the HE-6s prefer other genres...*my goal was just getting something as similar to the 009s as possible though, which is what ive got in the 6s*, i dont think the LCD-3s are even close tonally


 
  I would say that's a good choice then. The LCD-3s are more "complimentary" to the SR-009s than similar.


----------



## atistatic

How much cost if u want the same fidelity that equipment in speaker?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





atistatic said:


> How much cost if u want the same fidelity that equipment in speaker?


 
   
  $25000 ML CLX electrostatic full size speakers would make me about as happy.


----------



## Currawong

I think a good pair of ribbon-tweeter ELACs with appropriate supporting hardware would do it for me.


----------



## john57

I used to have three pairs of Stax headphones and the closest speaker that will match the Stax is my electrostatic Sound Labs but if you do not have the right room you will not be getting all the benefits. Not a issue with headphones.


----------



## marcus49371

I thought a 2000-dollar system is expensive. $12000......


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





marcus49371 said:


> I thought a 2000-dollar system is expensive. $12000......


 
  You've only been around a short while....give it time and you're thoughts of expensive vs. affordable will change.


----------



## Yorick1983

I have tried the 007 earspeakers and I have to say that they sound really great compared to my stax 4040II, which is not really bright, but just lacking a bit in bass. 
The 007 (with it's srm-007tII amp), seemed a bit on the too dark side.
Could anyone tell me how the 009 compares to the 404 and/or 007 ?

By the way, I'm new here and I listen to headphones only. I wanted the greatest sound that i could afford and I still don't miss listening to a speaker-based music system. 

Oh does anyone listen to vinyl on headphones?


----------



## orky87

Best or not but some of us with slimmer wallets can only dream i guess.


----------



## marone

judgedreadlocks said:


> HD650s? I thought LCD-2s were expensive. Do I want a car, or possibly the best headphones ever created...




*Do I want a car, or possibly the best headphones ever created*

Candidate for the best post ever.


----------



## marone

auralrelations said:


> I wonder if I'll have enough money for this when I'm 60 years old...Goal: set.




Yes. It's just a matter of priorities. If you save $500 a year for enough years you can do it.


----------



## justin w.

the SR-009 cost about $1/day if you look at expected depreciation.  most people spend more than that on coffee.  though in the case of previous high-end headphones like the Orpheus, HE60, Sony R10, Sony Qualia, AKG K1000, Stax SR-007 mk1, Stax Omega...you end up getting back all your money or more.  
   
  so far cant rent to own them though


----------



## catspaw

I gotta say, there must be a huge amount of honor and trust among audiphiles.... If someone asked me to borrow my HE-400 id probably pull out a gollum.


----------



## MrTechAgent

Ahhh can never forget that evening I spent with the he60's , I wish I could find them or tell my uncle to give them away to me


----------



## catspaw

Well, the life of an audiphile is terribly hard, mainly becouse there is always "something better".
  at 10.000 dollars for the ultimate setup, i belive Its slightly too much. It limits the market extensivly.
  I wonder on the other hand, what is the cost of manufacture of those headphones.
   
  I mean... its hard to belive its even over 1000 dollars. (thou it could be possible, but somehow i doubt it).
   
  Lucky for me I am already happy with my HE-400.


----------



## Kurios (Feb 6, 2022)

blackenedplague said:


> Haha yeah man with 10k I would get a '93 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo


----------



## catspaw

Id really love to know what the production cost of those HP is .


----------



## schorsch

Hello.
  
 I listen also to records (the vinyl sort )
 I carefully clean my records before I play them and try to avoid dust....
  
 Regards Georg


----------



## Angelbelow

Heard the ones that Darin brought to the recent San Diego meet... and boy.. they were amazing. Easily the best headphones I tried out at the meet.


----------



## Gradius

$4300?  At that price I would go with stereo speakers.


----------



## arnaud

Good luck with that. I go to high end speaker show in Tokyo each and every year. Well, each and every year I am comforted with my choice. And we're not talking 4300usd per loudspeaker there even...


----------



## AnakChan

arnaud said:


> Good luck with that. I go to high end speaker show in Tokyo each and every year. Well, each and every year I am comforted with my choice. And we're not talking 4300usd per loudspeaker there even...


 
  
 Actually, one setup that did wow me at the speaker show this year (I went again on the last day after we met up), was the Wilson Audio. Hated the looks but they did sound really great.
  
 Back on the headphone topic though are there many SR-009 owners here (and barring price) who feel the Abyss is a decent contender? I have to admit, I was quite wow-ed by the Abyss & LAu combo (driven off my AK120 as transport/source - imagine what an Invicta or MSB would do).


----------



## cszdcr

I did want to order one before when I was in Japan but I was told this is needed to queue about half year.


----------



## Gradius

Very funny review:
 "Upon purchasing this pair of headphones, At first, I was extremely pleased. All I had to do to purchase them was sell my first born child, and a tad bit of prostitution. But it was well worth it. Although the quality is stellar, for the price I paid, I assumed there to be some type of extra features. I don't exactly know what I was expecting, but something along the lines of turning into a robot that I could ride, or shoot out diamond encrusted dollar bills or something. If you are looking for something along these lines, you will be extremely disappointed. These headphones were definitely not worth my son. If you have a spare daughter, that should be okay. Overall, these headphones are alright. The quality is noticeably better than my old apple headphones. It is a close call, but it's only takes a few sacrifices, so I think it is well worth it."
  
 Btw, for $4K you can get something really good (speakers).  You don't need to burn $200K for a pair of speakers, after all 48kHz @ 24-bit is good enough and perfection is something doesn't exists.


----------



## Kdavis71

10 to 12 K for a good system but what about the DAC. I think a good DAC would be needed for a Stax Sr-009 set up as well and that drives the price up even more. How much is the DAC used in the review?


----------



## rocksteady65

blackenedplague said:


> I thought HD650's were expensive.......


 
 For what they do, they certainly are. IMHO, of course...


----------



## Smasha

judgedreadlocks said:


> HD650s? I thought LCD-2s were expensive. Do I want a car, or possibly the best headphones ever created...


 
 Car-insurance costs,registration,maintenance,fuel,parking,speeding fines.
  
 I guess if you love your audio,the price is not that bad especially if it's THE BEST.
  
 I'd feel guilty as hell buying it though.


----------



## Smasha

cszdcr said:


> I did want to order one before when I was in Japan but I was told this is needed to queue about half year.


 
 I suppose you would not really need a car in Japan?
 Small country and high speed trains.


----------



## Smasha

How do they go against the Plantronics 367s?


----------



## Tgtr0660

I want one day to have a set of Stax Omegas, either the 007 or the 009. I have to say I'm not too sure I'll ever be able to afford the 009 with the type of equipment it needs. Two questions: 
  
 1. Is it THAT much better than the 007? 
 2. Do you REALLY need a 5000$+ amp to make it work? What about Stax 2000 offerings?


----------



## MacedonianHero

tgtr0660 said:


> I want one day to have a set of Stax Omegas, either the 007 or the 009. I have to say I'm not too sure I'll ever be able to afford the 009 with the type of equipment it needs. Two questions:
> 
> 1. Is it THAT much better than the 007?
> 2. Do you REALLY need a 5000$+ amp to make it work? What about Stax 2000 offerings?


 
  
 Here are my 2 cents...
  
 1.) Yes! I have the SR-007Mk1s right here and enjoy them thoroughly, but there are no questions in my mind that the SR-009s are the best I've heard and worth the price difference for me.
 2.) I wouldn't go any lower than a KGSS for them. Great combination. Yes, they do get better, but anything lower I wouldn't recommend (including any of the current Stax amps or LL Mk1).


----------



## Jd007

macedonianhero said:


> 2.) I wouldn't go any lower than a KGSS for them. Great combination. Yes, they do get better, but anything lower I wouldn't recommend (including any of the current Stax amps or LL Mk1).


 
 Would you take a pair of dynamics or orthos driven by a great amp (eg GS-X mk2, DNA Stratus etc) over the SR-009 on a lower end amp?


----------



## MacedonianHero

jd007 said:


> Would you take a pair of dynamics or orthos driven by a great amp (eg GS-X mk2, DNA Stratus etc) over the SR-009 on a lower end amp?



Nope...I still much prefer the SR-009/SRM727II over my HD800/GS-X mk2 combo.


----------



## Jd007

> Originally Posted by *MacedonianHero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Nope...I still much prefer my SR-009/SRM727II over my HD800/GS-X mk2 combo.


 
 Thanks MH, that's good to know. I've been considering the SR-009 recently. I really don't want to give up my dynamic/ortho cans though, as they are a lot less tied down to my home setup (I can bring them anywhere and plug into a portable amp and they'll sound great). So I guess I'll probably eventually move in the direction you did, getting the stax in addition to my other cans instead of replacing them.
  
 Edit: also, if you were to rate them, how close would you say the HD800 is on the GS-X mk2, compared to the SR-009 on say the KGSSHV? Just trying to get an idea of how much I'm missing.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jd007 said:


> Thanks MH, that's good to know. I've been considering the SR-009 recently. I really don't want to give up my dynamic/ortho cans though, as they are a lot less tied down to my home setup (I can bring them anywhere and plug into a portable amp and they'll sound great). So I guess I'll probably eventually move in the direction you did, getting the stax in addition to my other cans instead of replacing them.
> 
> Edit: also, if you were to rate them, how close would you say the HD800 is on the GS-X mk2, compared to the SR-009 on say the KGSSHV? Just trying to get an idea of how much I'm missing.


 
  
 Here's a little story. A good friend (baka1969) is a huge HD800 fan and loves them to death. I agree that they are incredibly clean and impressive sounding headphones (as I too am a big fan). He came up to Toronto this past summer and got to hear my HD800/GS-X MK2 and SR-009/KGSSHV and in his words: "there is no comparison, I always thought I was hearing it all with the HD800s and apparently I was wrong".
  
 I've had them for 1.5 years now and I am still in that new toy syndrome phase.


----------



## Jd007

> Originally Posted by *MacedonianHero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Here's a little story. A good friend (baka1969) is a huge HD800 fan and loves them to death. I agree that they are incredibly clean and impressive sounding headphones (as I too am a big fan). He came up to Toronto this past summer and got to hear my HD800/GS-X MK2 and SR-009/KGSSHV and in his words: "there is no comparison, I always thought I was hearing it all with the HD800s and apparently I was wrong".
> 
> I've had them for 1.5 years now and I am still in that new toy syndrome phase.


 
 Thanks for the info. I'll wait for my GS-X mk2 for now to hear my regular headphones at their best, then maybe move on to stax later.


----------



## arnaud

Best is to find a way to listen to them at meet jd007. Also what music genre and levels do you listen at? It relates a lot to people's appreciation or lack thereof of the 009.


----------



## Jd007

arnaud said:


> Best is to find a way to listen to them at meet jd007. Also what music genre and levels do you listen at? It relates a lot to people's appreciation or lack thereof of the 009.


 
 yeah i'll definitely try to listen to them at a meet. however i am very skeptical of meet conditions, its not quiet, and you usually dont get a lot of time on the equipment. i find i usually need at least few days at home to know if i really like something. i listen to pretty much all genres, from pop to electronic to rock to classical, and i usually listen at moderate volumes (quieter than most i would say, i dont like too loud)


----------



## jackskelly

I would have to say right now that they are the best headphones I've ever heard. It has the best transducers I've ever heard. I've heard the Acapella Triolon Excalibur speakers in a great system, this one:
  
 http://dagogo.com/ryan-coleman-visits-a-reader-who-owns-a-pair-of-the-170500-acapella-triolon-excalibur-four-piece-horn-loudspeaker-system
  
 That system is truly great sounding, but the SR-009s are much more resolving and more detailed. The speakers best the headphones in terms of soundstage and realism, being the closest thing to having a band playing in your living room, but the SR-009s deliver a comparable and intimate sonic experience at a fraction of the cost.


----------



## eric65

Stax SR-009: Best Headphone Ever Made?
  
 The truth is seems to make it different.
  
 To my great regret, this is apparently more the case, if one believes this latest review, very explicit in the subjective comparison of the Abyss with the 009 : http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones/
  
 The protesters on the supremacy of the Abyss on the others headphones (including myself) would be in error...
  
 Perhaps it is to be welcomed?
  
 The wheel turns...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I tried the Abyss on the Woo mono blocks at RMAF - not planning to buy one.  Sorry, it's not my favorite.  It was ugly, too heavy and stiff, uncomfortable, and bland sounding.  My SR-009 via my upgraded KGBH amp with custom CCS have fantastic bass impact and dynamics, with great tonal balance, detail, soundstage, and imaging.  They excite me in a way that the Abyss could not.


----------



## eric65

eric65 said:


> Stax SR-009: Best Headphone Ever Made?
> 
> The truth is seems to make it different.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


headphoneaddict said:


> I tried the Abyss on the Woo mono blocks at RMAF - not planning to buy one.  Sorry, it's not my favorite.  It was ugly, too heavy and stiff, uncomfortable, and bland sounding.  My SR-009 via my upgraded KGBH amp with custom CCS have fantastic bass impact and dynamics, with great tonal balance, detail, soundstage, and imaging.  They excite me in a way that the Abyss could not.


 
  
 What amazes me in this article is to say that the SR-009 is colorful compared to the Abyss, in particular at the frequency of 4-5000 Hz. It would seem on the contrary to me that the Abyss is one can dig at these frequency.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones-measurements
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/more-stax-measurements-sr-009-sr-007-sr-507-sr-404-ltd-sr-404-and-sr-003


----------



## baronkatz

I completely agree. That is the best headphone I have ever heard in my life and I've listened to and owned quite a few... I just wish I could afford it and I wish that someone made a closed back one that sounded somewhat close to it!


----------



## akhyar

I've listened to them twice on trade show...
 The only think that stop me from pulling the trigger is that I need to spend the same amount of money on a good amplifier that can make this beauty sings.


----------



## r010159

This reminds me of a discussion that I had with an importer of fine wines. I asked him weather he can tell the difference between one highly rated wine and another. He told me there are people like himself that can, but the difference is so subtle, the wines need to be tasted side-by-side in order to determine the difference.  I then asked him if the price justifies the quality. Here he told me in his opinion it does not.
  
 So if this is a good analogy, then anyone that can place on supremely expensive headphones and immediately tell it is the best headphones that they have every heard when compared to other top-rated models is IMO making themselves believe this in what is called expectation bias. I think even a side-by-side comparison would prove to be difficult, and only by supremely good, well-trained hearing, who uses the proper source material. And I think this also applies to phones costing a fraction of the price. I challenge anyone that can hear the difference in a blind A/B/X test setup. I will look into this challenge at the next head-fi meet.
  
 But hey, they may very well be the best phones that are made in the world. But I suggest 99.9% of the people could not tell the difference in proper side-by-side blind testing. But I still do believe there might be a perceptible difference of sorts, and  not necessarily quantifiable as a "better or worse" difference either.
  
 JMHO
  
 But what do you guys realistically think about this?
  
 BG
  
 PS: When the *maker* of a headphone claims they are the best in the world, a red flag goes up in my mind, my "snake oil" detector.


----------



## baronkatz

r010159 said:


> This reminds me of a discussion that I had with an importer of fine wines. I asked him weather he can tell the difference between one highly rated wine and another. He told me there are people like himself that can, but the difference is so subtle, the wines need to be tasted side-by-side in order to determine the difference.  I then asked him if the price justifies the quality. Here he told me in his opinion it does not.
> 
> So if this is a good analogy, then anyone that can place on supremely expensive headphones and immediately tell it is the best headphones that they have every heard when compared to other top-rated models is IMO making themselves believe this in what is called expectation bias. I think even a side-by-side comparison would prove to be difficult, and only by supremely good, well-trained hearing, who uses the proper source material. And I think this also applies to phones costing a fraction of the price. I challenge anyone that can hear the difference in a blind A/B/X test setup. I will look into this challenge at the next head-fi meet.
> 
> ...


 
 When I first tried these, I wasn't sure of the cost or what they were and I immediately liked them. I think that MOST people who have heard the STAX 009's think they are quite amazing, even if they don't think they are the best. It's quite a bit different than wine, it's like comparing the taste of wine to the taste of beer or cognac or scotch whiskey than wines to other wines. ANYONE can tell the difference in taste between those different drinks.
  
 STAX in general sound different because they are electrostats, in that sense it's more like comparing a fine single malt scotch to a wine or a beer, it's different, and some people like that "refined and rich" taste, but to say that one cannot tell the difference would be absurd. Have you even listened to these headphones and compared them youself? *If not how are you even justified to give an opinion? *Price has nothing to do with this, they are $5000 because they are handcrafted in Japan, use the best materials, and are electrostatic which already make them more expensive to manufacture, this is regardless of what they sound like. Sure if they made them in China from some cheap plastic, they would be $1000 but that is still not cheap for most people.
  
 I think the analogy that works best is this: The Stax 009 is like a Lamborghini or Ferrari, excellent to drive, beautiful to behold, handcrafted, etc... It will of course outhandle a mass produced Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla. The thing is just because not everyone can afford a Lambo or Ferrari doesn't mean that they are not good or snake oil. They handle a million times better than a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla, just like the STAX sounds a million times better than a pair of Dre Beats headphones, or even most midrange headphones - IE comparing a BMW 3 series to a Lambo or Ferrari in this sense, etc...
  
 Unless you're comparing them to another pair of high end, transparent, open-back headphones such as the Audeze LCD-3 vs. Stax 009 then that would maybe be a valid comparison and the difference between them not so great (IE Lamborghini vs. Ferrari). But then the Audeze aren't cheap either at around $2K and the Stax still sound more transparent, rounded, etc... for most people. I haven't met someone who doesn't like them, it's not as polarizing as say Audio Technica's or Beyers or Ultrasones... Some people hate Ultrasones and some love them. I don't like the Beyerdynamic Tesla T1 even though it's expensive, it has nothing to do with price, although the best is usually expensive because it uses the best materials and has the highest development costs, etc... 
  
 P.S. What a maker says is irrelevant but I don't see on their website where it says that they are the best in the world. Did you happen to fetch that out of a hat? The brochure states top of the line, but that's because it's their top of the line model: http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/SR009e.html


----------



## r010159

The makers of the Abyss mad that claim on their pair of headphones. My mistake!
  
 "Skubinski did not equivocate by saying he hoped to build “one of the finest” headphones, but rather made the unequivocal claim that his would be “the finest headphone” yet produced. "
  
 BG


----------



## baronkatz

r010159 said:


> The makers of the Abyss mad that claim on their pair of headphones. My mistake!
> 
> "Skubinski did not equivocate by saying he hoped to build “one of the finest” headphones, but rather made the unequivocal claim that his would be “the finest headphone” yet produced. "
> 
> BG


 
 I like the STAX 009 a lot more in terms of SQ, design, build, etc... although the price is the same ($5K) the technology is completely different. The Abyss use magneplanar technology similar to the LCD3's so it's more on that league, and although they sound better than the LCD3s they don't sound nearly as good as the STAX 009. I also think the Abyss are the ugliest headphones I have ever seen, that square headband and crudeness of look reminds me of a torture device from Mary Shelly's Frankenstein or something that would fit well on the set of the Munsters or Adams Family. Not only are they ugly but they are uncomfortable.
  
 If they were really trying to build the "finest headphone yet produced" I think they would have paid more attention to the design, to the materials, comfort, and so many other things like STAX, Audeze, Beyer, and Ultrasone did. Finest = finesse as well, not only crude aesthetics with good sound, IMHO.


----------



## zachchen1996

LCD3's can't touch the SR009's in my opinion


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Yeah, comparing headphones is nothing like comparing wine. The analogy would work ally better for dacs or amps, though even then it's not quite right. 

Honestly anyone would easily be able to tell the difference between a 009 and even a HD800 or HE-6, which tonally are most similar I would say to the 009...


----------



## AnakChan

souprknowva said:


> Yeah, comparing headphones is nothing like comparing wine. The analogy would work ally better for dacs or amps, though even then it's not quite right.
> 
> Honestly anyone would easily be able to tell the difference between a 009 and even a HD800 or HE-6, which tonally are most similar I would say to the 009...


 
  
 I dunno, I still can see how the wine analogy works. Comparing different brands of headphones is analogous to comparing Cabernet Sauvignon to Pinot Noir for a real obvious example. Maybe even go as far as comparing the same blend but from different regions. Whereas the DAC/Amp could be comparing the same blend from the same but different years.
  
 OK not a perfect analogy.


----------



## eric65

baronkatz said:


> I like the STAX 009 a lot more in terms of SQ, design, build, etc... although the price is the same ($5K) the technology is completely different. The Abyss use magneplanar technology similar to the LCD3's so it's more on that league, and although they sound better than the LCD3s they don't sound nearly as good as the STAX 009. I also think the Abyss are the ugliest headphones I have ever seen, *that square headband and crudeness of look reminds me of a torture device from Mary Shelly's Frankenstein *or something that would fit well on the set of the Munsters or Adams Family. Not only are they ugly but they are uncomfortable.
> 
> If they were really trying to build the "finest headphone yet produced" I think they would have paid more attention to the design, to the materials, comfort, and so many other things like STAX, Audeze, Beyer, and Ultrasone did. Finest = finesse as well, not only crude aesthetics with good sound, IMHO.


 
  
 Even Frankeistein, with his big head, would be unfortunate for wear a such headphone (rigid) not exceeding 2 cm in the amplitude of the head width. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
*Range of adjustment of the width of the JPS Abyss (rigid headphone) headphone head: 2 cm*
*Variability of the measurements of the width of the human head in adults: 7 cm (12, 5-19, 5 cm)*
 (http://www.ifth.org/innovation-textile/upload/Image/IFTH_DossierdePresse_Mensurations_Adultes.pdf: page 24)
  
 Conclusion: better to not have a big head (or small) for wear the Abyss!


----------



## eric65

Hi all.
  
 Should fear, in the short term, that the Stax SR-009 headphone become corny and be exceeded by the competition (Abyss in mind) to become old-fashioned? (NB: Arnaud seems to fear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




​) ?
  
 So, if we want that Stax continues to produce one of the best headphones in the world (if not the best), what could we wish to the Stax Enterprise for future headphone high end, successor to the best seller 009 (in his high-end uncompromising class), if one day a successor was?


----------



## AnakChan

eric65 said:


> Hi all.
> 
> Should fear, in the short term, that the Stax SR-009 headphone become corny and be exceeded by the competition (Abyss in mind) to become old-fashioned? (NB: Arnaud seems to fear
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure if the Abyss is really in competition to the SR-009. Reading posts from people who have experienced both some still like the SR-009 whilst others like the Abyss and some like both.


----------



## elton7033

anakchan said:


> I'm not sure if the Abyss is really in competition to the SR-009. Reading posts from people who have experienced both some still like the SR-009 whilst others like the Abyss and some like both.


 
 you really makes me wanna try out the abyss now and see how well it does compare to my other cans. and i never even see a abyss in shop yet.


----------



## AnakChan

elton7033 said:


> you really makes me wanna try out the abyss now and see how well it does compare to my other cans. and i never even see a abyss in shop yet.


I've tried the Abyss twice & had conversations with Arnaud & other friends about it before. I was one of those who considered switching over from the Stax to the Abyss. But what Arnaud said to me was right - although the Abyss excels in other ways, it doesn't have the ethereal qualities of the Stax.

If anything it'll be more ideal to have both to compliment each other than to have one replacing the other.


----------



## eric65

If I understand correctly, it is better to have the two headphone (SR-009 + Abyss) that would be complementary.
  
 A big snag, however, the addition of price (10,000 + 10,000 US dollars, with high-end amplifiers that go well with); It starts to cost very much this "completeness".
 Many people will have to make a choice: the SR-009 or the Abyss (and not, fault of sufficient financial means, SR-009 and the Abyss); It remains to define which of these two headphone is the most deserving...


----------



## baronkatz

eric65 said:


> If I understand correctly, it is better to have the two headphone (SR-009 + Abyss) that would be complementary.
> 
> A big snag, however, the addition of price (10,000 + 10,000 US dollars, with high-end amplifiers that go well with); It starts to cost very much this "completeness".
> Many people will have to make a choice: the SR-009 or the Abyss (and not, fault of sufficient financial means, SR-009 and the Abyss); It remains to define which of these two headphone is the most deserving...


 
 This is down to personal opinion as I have heard people who like one or the other better or both equally as well but sonic qualities aside, the build quality, design, and comfort of the STAX is WAYYYY better than the Abyss. For the price that they charge for the Abyss they could have at least worked out a decent design and comfort, etc... and not focused solely on the sound. That's like having a car that handles as well as a Ferrari or Lamborghini and is just as fast, but looks like an old Volvo from the 80s... An old Volvo with metal fold out chairs for comfort instead of luxurious leather Recaro seats... This alone makes the STAX a better choice, for I could not be caught dead seen with the Abyss and if you plan to listen for more than a half hour, then the STAX wins there too...


----------



## eric65

anakchan said:


> I've tried the Abyss twice & had conversations with Arnaud & other friends about it before. I was one of those who considered switching over from the Stax to the Abyss. But what Arnaud said to me was right - although the Abyss excels in other ways, it doesn't have the ethereal qualities of the Stax.
> 
> If anything it'll be more ideal to have both to compliment each other than to have one replacing the other.


 
  
 To go in your way,  I know two people preferring to have the Abyss and the SR-009 instead of having only one of these two headphones.
 Superfred21 who just bought the Abyss wants preserved its 009
 Meloman57 who just bought the Abyss had to project (and projects always?) to also buy SR-009.

 Once more, the main problem comes from the cost of this double acquisition.
 So much the better for those who can afford it.
 Personally, it's more the problem of my big head and the absence of adjustment of the Abyss in height (and limited to 2 cm in width), not to mention his particular aesthetic, that is the main obstacle to such double acquisition.

 Otherwise, having to spend € 10,000 to have a sound different, but not necessarily better than that provided by my Stax (009 + RKV amp) system and, in addition, which satisfies me fully, makes me think : _you sometimes need to know keep reason_; the price to pay for the novelty seems (for me) very unreasonable...


----------



## elton7033

anakchan said:


> I've tried the Abyss twice & had conversations with Arnaud & other friends about it before. I was one of those who considered switching over from the Stax to the Abyss. But what Arnaud said to me was right - although the Abyss excels in other ways, it doesn't have the ethereal qualities of the Stax.
> 
> If anything it'll be more ideal to have both to compliment each other than to have one replacing the other.


 
 i just opened a classified and try to look for some kind people to sell me a pair of second hand abyss i think 4900usd will be the correct price for a second hand. hope i have luck.


----------



## AnakChan

elton7033 said:


> i just opened a classified and try to look for some kind people to sell me a pair of second hand abyss i think 4900usd will be the correct price for a second hand. hope i have luck.


 
  
 It's a pity. If you asked this question a month ago, Naras had one for sale in the classifieds...slightly less than what you quoted above even if I'm not mistaken.


> eric65 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all.
> ...


 
  
 Yes cost is a huge factor and that's where it's hard for one to give one up for the other 'cos as baronkatz had alluded to it boils down to personal preference. As such the reason for my original post was that I disagreed with you that the Abyss is "competition" to the Stax.
  
 So for me, as much as I'd like to have an Abyss, despite hearing it twice, it's not enough to let go of my Stax rig.
  
 I'm surprised Arnaud hasn't jumped onto this yet so (and I could be out of line) speaking on his behalf, I don't think Arnaud isn't fazed at all with the introduction and existence of the Abyss as being "a threat" to the SR-009. At least this is the impression I get in my past conversations with him.
  
 P.S. BTW, do you know i met superfred21 last year ? We had a Stax amp & DAC shootout last year in Tokyo. It was his reassurance on the Electra that made me feel confident about my purchase of that amp (pre-delivered at that time).


----------



## elton7033

anakchan said:


> It's a pity. If you asked this question a month ago, Naras had one for sale in the classifieds...slightly less than what you quoted above even if I'm not mistaken.


 
  
 too bad, gonna wait for a nice guy to give me a nice price, i am going to lower the price abit on my classified XD


----------



## eric65

anakchan said:


> It's a pity. If you asked this question a month ago, Naras had one for sale in the classifieds...slightly less than what you quoted above even if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> Yes cost is a huge factor and that's where it's hard for one to give one up for the other 'cos as baronkatz had alluded to it boils down to personal preference. As such the reason for my original post was that I disagreed with you that the Abyss is "competition" to the Stax.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hello AnakChan,
  
 Personally, I have lived the introduction (and promotion) in France of the Abyss as a 'threat' to the headphones Stax SR-009 in the sense where two people in France (which I had the name) have, for the first person, put in closet the SR-009 and to swear more than by the Abyss, saying high and strong that the Abyss was the best headphone in production to the point that (almost) everybody in France is convinced of this fact, and that the second person has purchased an Abyss (probably influenced by first-person), whereas it had initially the project to buy a SR-009.

  In the United States (and on Head-Fi) the opinion seem more shared (and nuanced) concerning the respective merits of these two headphones.
  
 P.S. : To return to the Stax SR-009 headphone  (your 009) _"the best headphone ever made" _(for some but not for all... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), what do you think of your upgrade of amplifier, passing from the Stax SRM-727 amp at the Eddie Current Electra.
 What concrete improvements have you noticed?


----------



## arnaud

My opinion in a nutshell:

1. I heard the abyss under pretty nasty conditions (who in his right mind uses an ipod line out to drive a Lau/abyss pair?). As expected, it was thus meh at best.

2. Apparently, I failed to read the noticed when I tried it, was trying to make a seal but there was no way to adjust the system for that to happen (I must be falling outside the average population head size the can was designed for).

3. I find the can ugly looking and too expensive for me to consider it a complement to my rig (considering I'd also need to get an amp...). Maybe the lower models coming will be more attractive to me (but I just don't imagine myself with two full blown amps at home though).

4. My listening impressions are likely skewed because I had (and still have to some extent) strong reservations against various part of the design including the single stator, light damping applied to orthos (i just don't like many of what I feel are "underdamped" orthos that have been released in the past year, alpha dog before the mod, lcd-x for instance ). Some people refuse to hear about objective stuff, I probably read too much into theories and measurements .

5. Let's face it, I seem to be an incurable stat fanboy. I have been swayed by the stat sound for a few years now. The 009 has put a damper on my headphone quest, except for portable gear maybe. I don't perceive the lack of body some find with it and absolutely crave the resolved, low distortion sound and natural voices & treble. I have an omega 2 mk1 when the mood strikes for different / warmer sound. Really, there's limited room for another product.

My comment on the 009 being out of fashion over on the french forum was just humour, maybe that was not very good joke eric .


----------



## eric65

arnaud said:


> My opinion in a nutshell:
> 
> 1. I heard the abyss under pretty nasty conditions (who in his right mind uses an ipod line out to drive a Lau/abyss pair?). As expected, it was thus meh at best.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know appreciate your humor to the second degree, Arnaud, on the French forum; Ali Pacha also.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Otherwise, very good response on your part on this thread; I appreciate.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Eric


----------



## eric65

Arnaud, I fear the worst (for the Stax SR-009) during the mini "CanJam" organized in Paris on 15 March where the Stax SR-009 will face the Abyss. 

 This confrontation may not be equitable for Stax because one side will be a 009 amplified by a 'simple' SRM-727, and on the other an Abyss amplified by an RKV Audiovalve mk3, all in a noisy environment where the noise levels are pushed upward, which will not benefit to the Stax headphone listening used with the 727 (which may lose consistency in being less well (under) amplified) Unlike the Abyss which will be when to him over amplified. 

 Pity that the 009 is not used directly on the RKV (in my own way) or, in a more orthodox manner, with a BHSE (or an Electra), it would be more rewarding for the Stax SR-009 whose potential, of confession of Frederic, is flanged by the Stax amps currently in production (SRM 323 S, 727 and 007t 2))

 Other hand, will have to play the screwdriver to adapt the headphone Abyss to the physiognomy of each head of participants. Small (and large) heads, abstain!


----------



## arnaud

Considering the vendor and distributor sell both the stax and abyss, i wouldn't put too much thought into this conspiracy theory where the 009 wouldn't be shown under the best light possible. I guess it's more a question of logistics as they can't bring in all the gear possible...

In any case, who cares about the outcome, this isn't going to replace your own ears. Maybe it's time to stop rambling about this supposed 009/abyss war ...


----------



## eric65

arnaud said:


> Considering the vendor and distributor sell both the stax and abyss, i wouldn't put too much thought into this conspiracy theory where the 009 wouldn't be shown under the best light possible. I guess it's more a question of logistics as they can't bring in all the gear possible...
> 
> In any case, who cares about the outcome, this isn't going to replace your own ears. Maybe it's time to stop rambling about this supposed 009/abyss war ...


 
  
 OK, sorry, no war, no commercial interest, the 009 will be presented in Paris in all objectivity with what there is better (just like the Abyss) and everyone will have an objective view of the exposed materials during such a meeting. "Everything bathes"; so, expect returns, and we'll see... 
P.S.: the opinion of Igor interests me as a sound engineer.
  
 Bis P.S. :
 Not 'conspiracy theory' of course, but the simple fact that the 009 is not used his best with a 727 with a noisy environment, without counting that qualitatively speaking the RKV is better than the 727 (I speak knowingly); I consider that the 009 starting with a disadvantage for an inevitable 'friend confrontation' with the Abyss. Thats all.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Hi Eric : ) Hi Arnaud : ) Hi All : ) 
  
 Personally, seen the pleasure that my Stax headphone give me, I board not want to try another headphones. 
 Is it ( it's  )  good or bad? I do not know ... 
 All I know, is that I take a great pleasure to listen to my system every night.


----------



## eric65

Hi Jonathan, the most loyal of us all to the Stax brand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Very nice, your avatar !


----------



## Jonathan66100

Eric  
 Thank for my avatar, even if it is not too topicality : ) 
 Arnaud is also very loyal : ) 
  
 You not, with your Wee 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Me, I will definitely continue my madness with a DAC X1T, as soon as the opportunity presents itself 
  
  
  
 ​


----------



## eric65

jonathan66100 said:


> Eric
> Thank for my avatar, even if it is not too topicality : )
> Arnaud is also very loyal : )
> 
> ...


 
  
 It is true, the RKV amp + Wee _(used only for the Wee, to generate the bias voltage 580 Volts DC for the SR-009)_ is an infidelity to Stax. 

 It was initially a choice to wait pending the future amplifier output Stax 'T2 like' that I would have bought eyes closed for my 009; However, I have a little fear of having to wait very long before the release of this hypothetical Stax amplifier very high end.

  In the meantime, after comparison, I do not regret this passage from the 727 at the RKV (in direct use), but at the price of listening limited level under 100 dB SPL, which is, in practice, beneficial for my old ears.


----------



## eric65

arnaud said:


> My opinion in a nutshell:
> 
> 1. I heard the abyss under pretty nasty conditions (who in his right mind uses an ipod line out to drive a Lau/abyss pair?). As expected, it was thus meh at best.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Arnaud,
  
 Well, in the end, Arnaud,  what amp do you think buy when replacing, one day, of your trusty Stax SRM-727 amp for your Stax headphone SR-009 and 007-mk1 ? 
  
 Do you think acquire a BHSE or an Electra (with tubes that go well with)? or so remain "loyal" to Stax, and wait, pending the release of an very high-end (hypothetical) Stax 'T2 like' amp ?


----------



## Jonathan66100

And you Eric : )
 I have no doubt of RKV, but considering you ?, for example, moving to a tube amp as the 007TII? 
 I know he was much maligned, yet I prefer, for example, widely my SRMT1 to my SRM1 MK2 PRO who have the coast.


----------



## eric65

jonathan66100 said:


> And you Eric : )
> I have no doubt of RKV, but considering you ?, for example, moving to a tube amp as the 007TII?
> I know he was much maligned, yet I prefer, for example, widely my SRMT1 to my SRM1 MK2 PRO who have the coast.


 
  
 Hi Jonathan,
  
 I don't have a good impression, both subjective and objective, of the Stax SRM-007 T2 amp used with the Stax SR-009 headphone. 
 This Stax amplifier tubes, although very fine and defined, missing for me of life and dynamism. 

 I prefer  clearly the SRM-727 II amp (more dynamic), and even more the RKV amp, especially in direct mode for the latter, without the Wee transformers connected  (because less colorful, more transparent, and even more dynamic) with a presence, an transparence and an incredible life.
  
links
  
 http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177548954.html#p177548954
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177550065.html#p177550065
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2


----------



## Jonathan66100

And try another tube amp, does not tempt you ?


----------



## eric65

jonathan66100 said:


> And try another tube amp, does not tempt you ?


 
  
 For my 009, if Stax does not come out someday a 'T2 like' amp (probably with tubes), maybe I interested me one day on a BHSE with tubes Psvane EL34PH (fashionable currently 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), although my current system (with tubes), with RKV amp in direct mode OTL, agrees me very well (apart from this limitation of amplification gain, sometimes (but rarely) embarrassing for some old CD recorded with a low level).


----------



## Jonathan66100

It's look great, by against deadlines are super long: /


----------



## eric65

jonathan66100 said:


> It's look great, by against deadlines are super long: /


 
  
 BHSE?
 It's true, this is a nice amp (just like the headphone Stax SR-009); aesthetically speaking, the two go well together.
 Ali Pacha dream it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ; the advantage of long time order, is that it leaves enough time to make the necessary savings to pay the balance of the order at the time of delivery.


----------



## Jonathan66100

In my opinion I think it is as good as beautiful !
 009 and BHSE almost makes me forget my quest for omega and T2


----------



## eric65

Pity that it was not a BHSE amp during the meeting of headphones of Paris this March 15, because it does not appear to have been at the feast the 009 of Pierre with its 727 amp compared to the competition......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I had however warned Arnaud of my fears concerning selected amplifiers...


----------



## DigitalGrounder

dang


----------



## Jonathan66100

eric65 said:


> Pity that it was not a BHSE amp during the meeting of headphones of Paris this March 15, because it does not appear to have been at the feast the 009 of Pierre with its 727 amp compared to the competition......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The 727 is really not bad : ) 
 The amps who make really thanks to 009 are not European, so he does not meet the standards of Europe, so it's hard, to see banned for a proffessional to propose on the french market or in an official meeting : )


----------



## eric65

jonathan66100 said:


> *The 727 is really not bad* : )
> The amps who make really thanks to 009 are not European, so he does not meet the standards of Europe, so it's hard, to see banned for a proffessional to propose on the french market or in an official meeting : )


 
  
 Only at low sound volume (with the headphone Stax SR-009 more demanding in amplification than the headphones Stax Lambda).
  
 The RKV, the Electra, and probably also the BHSE and T2 amp are better.


----------



## eric65

jonathan66100 said:


> The 727 is really not bad : )
> *The amps who make really thanks to 009 are not European, so he does not meet the standards of Europe, so it's hard, to see banned for a proffessional to propose on the french market or in an official meeting* : )


 
  
 This is true.
  
 What we can apparently conclude about this meeting of headphone in Paris from March 15, it is the Abyss with the AudioValve RKV mK3 amplifier seems to have been most appreciated that the Stax headphone SR-009 with the amplifier Stax SRM-727, in direct comparison.
  
 One nuance however, Igor (sound engineer) present at this meeting, although he preferred the Abyss to the Stax, noted an treble a little indented (attenuated) from the Abyss compared with the Stax and its reference system based on his studio speakers (ultra equalized) which deformed a little the tone (timbre) of violin (not perfectly respected). The strong point of the Abyss for him being the (spectacular) spatialization and the depth of its bass.
  
 PS: In my opinion, Igor, as sound engineer, will keep his headphone Stax SR-202 for his nomadic sound records for a solid reason, is that it is (Stax SR-202) _15 times less expensive than the Abyss..._ (and surely much more convenient to use on the ground 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Hun7er

@eric65 : I didn't plan to have the SR009, I've already buy it. However the seller had ship it only yesterday.
 I will compare it on the same setup as the HD800 and Abyss thank to the Woo Wee.
  
  
 I add that on the right setup the HD800 or Abyss has the same smoothness and fluidity as Stax.


----------



## Jonathan66100

@Eric
  
 The 202 and 252 is a quality raport unbeatable prices.
 They even beat my Omega 
 But when you have a passion we are ready to spend much for THE difference 
 I have the impression that the 009 has was also loved in the meeting


----------



## eric65

jonathan66100 said:


> @Eric
> 
> The 202 and 252 is a quality raport unbeatable prices.
> They even beat my Omega
> ...


 
  
 @ Jonathan:
  
 Phew for Stax! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 On the other hand, I know a person who attended this meeting that not was specially packed by the Abyss, found ugly, uncomfortable, with a sound, certainly not bad at first glance, but having nothing exceptional.
 Like what, all tastes are in nature... 




  
  
 @ Hun7er:
  
 Good listening with your brand new headphone Stax SR-009; you will see, this is certainly not a headphone also demonstrative than the Abyss at first glance, but on classical music it is of remarkable fidelity.


----------



## eric65

For our American friends, here is the link to the meeting of headphones of Paris of March 15 with some pictures. 
 Guest reviews (in french) good or bad for the Stax headphones SR-009 are in full swing.
  
 link : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178052959.html#p178052959


----------



## eric65

eric65 said:


> For our American friends, here is the link to the meeting of headphones of Paris of March 15 with some pictures.
> Guest reviews (in french) good or bad for the Stax headphones SR-009 are in full swing.
> 
> link : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178052959.html#p178052959


 
  
 Hello, for those that are interested, here is another link for follow-up of assessments of headphones Stax versus competition (in particular the Abyss), following the meeting of headphones in Paris to 15 March; where it also questions the role of amplifiers to explain perceived differences.

 link (in french) : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/club-des-heureux-proprietaires-de-casques-stax-t29819561-6210.html


----------



## Jonathan66100

Hi Eric,
 To be more precise it is this message when he speaks http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178055060.html#p178055060
  
 I also think that the 009 had no amp at its height.
  
 But it must be admitted that the Abyss was preferred to 009 
 Now that does not mean it is better or worse. 
 Everyone is different. 
 For example. 
 Much people love "call of duty" or online gaming. 
 Personally I prefer a good single player games  ( S.T.A.L.K.E.R. for example )


----------



## eric65

Hi Jonathan,
  
 What also emerges from this meeting of Headphones on Paris, these are assessments, sometimes sliced and opposing on the same audio hardware listened, depending on the sensitivity and the tastes of the participant ; This is true both for headphones than for amplifiers.

 We like or we don't like.

 We must take into account the variability human just as much as the material exposed.


----------



## eric65

jonathan66100 said:


> Hi Eric,
> *To be more precise it is this message when he speaks* http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178055060.html#p178055060
> 
> *I also think that the 009 had no amp at its height*.
> ...


 
  
 Good evening (or good morning) everyone,
  
 Jonathan, I learned two interesting ideas in this meeting of headphones in Paris regarding the differences of plays between the Stax SR-009 (+ SRM 727 amp) and the JPS Abyss (+ RKV-mk3 amp), the first idea comes from Sol23 which I quote word for word what he said (translated into English):
_" Personally I found that the Abyss and SR-009 offered two different listens, this is the first time I listened to the SR-009, it seemed very right, clear and open, in short it is a listening quite analytical and ethereal, while the Abyss seemed to me propose a more matte and liquid, with a wider stereo spatialization sound. I do not know if others share that impression but the Abyss makes me advantage think at the SR-007 with his presentation very "laid back". "_
  
 This interesting comparison would show why it is difficult to compare these two headphones to the quite different listens (the 009 headphone vs Abyss would give a listen any also different than that of the 009 headphone vs 007), knowing that the Abyss is getting nearer over the 007 headphone by its duller sound and "laid back" and would fit perfectly to the Jazz, while the 009, clearer, straighter and probably truer in tone in the treble (violins) would correspond better to great classical music ensembles.

 The second idea comes from Skywalkerciel who wondered about the role of the amplifiers used with headphone Abyss and 009 to explain (in part) the difference considered subtle between these two headphones: quote (translated into English):
_" you summed up well the difference (between the two headphones) but I'll add 'greater body and matter in the tone (timbre) (for the Abyss) is what has tipped the balance in favour of the Abyss over the 009 for me. _
_The 009 remaining in my opinion the best headphones after the Abyss of all those I could try but I wonder a bit about the quality of the amp? i.e. are they (amps) do not also have a role in these subtle differences ? "_
  
 Here, let me give an explanatory hypothesis based on my own experience with these amplifiers Stax SRM-727 and AudioValve RKV (mk2 or mk3): RKV amplifier used with a large load (low impedance), either with the Abyss (impedance : 46 Ohms) or the 009 + Wee (impedance seen by the amplifier estimated at between 30 and 60 ohm) ; this low impedance will solicit the tubes of RKV in amperage  (while these old TV tubes are instead optimized for high impedance > 2000 (Ohms), resulting in harmonic distortions more elevated with a sound more thick, dense, rich and matte.
 Conversely, the same amplifier RKV used in direct mode on the 009 (with a headphone very high of 145000 Ohms impedance) as well as the 727 SRM, dedicated to the Stax headphone will give a sound much more light and air, with less harmonic distortion (tubes used mainly in voltage).

 Some amplifiers for electrostatic headphones with a denser sound (more colourful) and very dynamic in the grave could perhaps give a closer sound aesthetics of the Abyss (e.g. RKV - Wee using the transformer of the Wee (not in direct mode), who had obtained the best listening on a jazz record compared to 3 other amplifiers (Electra, SRM 727 and SRM 007 t2) during the comparison of these 4 amps (published on Head-Fi)  with a sound more mate, fuller, while being very dynamic in the bass.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Hi Eric : ),
  
 I know nothing about it, but you can always try the abyss and enjoy 7 days of retractement if he does not suit


----------



## eric65

Hello J.
   What seller, and at what price?


----------



## eric65

jonathan66100 said:


> Hi Eric : ),
> 
> I know nothing about it, but you can always try the abyss and enjoy 7 days of retractement if he does not suit


 
  
  If it is the seller online "Casques-Headphones" in France with a price (taxes included) of 6,000 €, it is clearly not a choice for me.

 It is two times too expensive, not to mention that this seller no longer has my trust.
  
 If it is necessary to spend my money, one day, for 6,000 €, maybe I'd crack for a BHSE (for my 009) once Arnaud has received his and said if the upgrade is worth it compared to his SRM 727 amp.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Eric : )
  
 I also think it is better that you buy a BHSE with ~4200 euros, without customs fees and without shipping ( probably ~5200 euros with shipping and customs fees )
 But like as I have the impression that these headphones really intrigue you, I give you ideas to hear him quietly yourself 
  
 For the dealer I will send by MP 
  
  
 PS: He give really envy "this" BHSE
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/439657/headamp-blue-hawaii-special-edition/2295#post_8597439


----------



## eric65

jonathan66100 said:


> Eric : )
> 
> I also think it is better that you buy a BHSE with ~4200 euros, without customs fees and without shipping ( probably ~5200 euros with shipping and customs fees )
> But like as I have the impression that these headphones really intrigue you, I give you ideas to hear him quietly yourself
> ...


 
  
Jonathan.
  
 I read your PM,
  
 Thank


----------



## arnaud

Some hairs were raised on that french forum when someone mentioned the abyss reminded more of the SR007mk1 than similarity with SR009.
  
 I recall reading comment hear about the Abyss voicing being similar to the Stax Omega 2 so I checked the measurements from Inner-Fidelity...
  
 Indeed, just looking at the frequency response (which is appropriate if one is to assess "voicing"):
 - Both the Abyss and 007mk1 shelve down the mids in the 2-5kHz region (some don't link the SR009 for the same reason, saying it puts too much emphasis on the mids).
 - Both the Abyss and 007mk1 have this extra sparkle at 10kHz which makes for a more fun presentation (I hear that with my 007mk1 and find the 009 more natural in the treble range).
 - Although the overlay is dirty as hell, you can clearly see the abyss is a 007mk1 with even more shelf of the mids in the 3-5kHz range and raise of the treble in the 10kHz zone.


----------



## eric65

eric65 said:


> Good evening (or good morning) everyone,
> 
> Jonathan, I learned two interesting ideas in this meeting of headphones in Paris regarding the differences of plays between the Stax SR-009 (+ SRM 727 amp) and the JPS Abyss (+ RKV-mk3 amp), the first idea comes from Sol23 which I quote word for word what he said (translated into English):
> 
> ...


 
  


arnaud said:


> Some hairs were raised on that french forum when someone mentioned the abyss reminded more of the SR007mk1 than similarity with SR009.
> 
> I recall reading comment hear about the Abyss voicing being similar to the Stax Omega 2 so I checked the measurements from Inner-Fidelity...
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think you're in the true Arnaud.
  
 Like what there is sometimes a certain correlation between the curves of measures and what some hear...


----------



## Hun7er

Arnaud and Eric65 : I owned a Stax SR007MKI and I don't find the Abyss very similar, it is most similar to the HD800.


----------



## eric65

hun7er said:


> Arnaud and Eric65 : I owned a Stax SR007MKI and I don't find the Abyss very similar, it is most similar to the HD800.


 
  
 Pierre does not have the same opinion concerning the HD-800 vs Abyss ...
  
 Furthermore, the human factor must also be taken in account, because some people find the Abyss with a dull (matte) tone compared to the sound of 009, while others find the opposite, ie the Abyss bright compared with the 009.
  
 The problem is probably the same between the Abyss and the HD-800.
  
 Besides it remains to define at what frequency (registry) a headphone is considered matte or bright: high-mids (2-5 KHz), treble (5-10 KHz) or extreme treble (10-16 KHz) ?
  
 For example, the SR-007mk2 is rather dull (matte) in the high mids and treble, and bright in the extreme treble.
 The 009 is a hair bright in the high-mids, neutral in the treble, and somewhat dull (matte) in extreme treble.
  
 Not simple, all that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Eric


----------



## Hun7er

@eric65 : Pierre cannot be trusted anymore. In my system the HD800 has a bit more air on the treble. Abyss doesn't soften the edge as the SR007. But to finish my comparison I would test the HD800 and the Abyss on another amplifier.


----------



## eric65

@ Hun7er
  
 Take your time to compare your 3 headphones (009, Abyss and HD-800) specifying subsequently amplifiers (and source) used.
  
 Good evening and good listens.


----------



## eric65

Hello
  
 To return to the Stax headphones and at the SR-009 in particular, the most amazing feature that I find with the Stax SR-009 is this ability to spark (create) the sound of nowhere in our head, as suspended, in levitating, between our ears, and not just to simply reproduce it with more or less fidelity. 
 I find this quite magical ability.
  
  I do not found it in my headphones Sennheiser HD-600 (used yet with same amplifier RKV than the 009) and do not know if this extraordinary ability of create the sound of nowhere is specific to the Stax headphones (and the estat), or if it is found also in other headphones.


----------



## eric65

hun7er said:


> Arnaud and Eric65 : I owned a Stax SR007MKI and I don't find the Abyss very similar, it is most similar to the HD800.


 
  
 Quote:


eric65 said:


> @ Hun7er
> 
> Take your time to compare your 3 headphones (009, Abyss and HD-800) specifying subsequently amplifiers (and source) used.
> 
> Good evening and good listens.


 
  
 Hun7er
  
You who have the chance to own both, the Abyss, the HD-800 and the SR-009 headphone, how would you rank, honestly, the wearing comfort of these 3 headphones, both on the duration, the adaptability to the size of your head, and freedom of movement of the head (i.e. the possibility to tilt the head forward in back without risk of misalignment of headphones).
  
 Like DavidMahler (cf :The Battle of the Flagship: http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13) how would you rank these 3 headphones in quality (ORDER OF SOUND QUALITY and PRESENTATION) and quality-price ratio (ORDER OF VALUE: rating A+ to D).
  
 Thanks for your opinion.


----------



## eric65

Hun7er, perhaps you may have no official opinion on Head-Fi concerning the wearing comfort of head of your three high-end headphones (HD-800, Abyss and SR-009), perhaps you preserve the future if need to resell here one of these headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 For my part, in looking for a bit, I found one of your speeches on another forum or you talk to us a little of the Abyss and its comfort: I cites (translated into English):
  
" Finally received Abyss on the ears.

First start he y' 4 hours I found it bad. I left 2 hours time to eat and that electronic reach their optimal temperature.
Ah that's better.
 I thought I would be eligible for an enhanced HE6 Hifiman. In fact not is rather the HD800 improved, and it is so much the better.

Then point the improvements:
 -a deeper sound image
 -thicker sound
 -a little duller
 -more solid on all the bandwidth
 -impact on the bass
 -a few more audible details.
  
Please note this is not the day and night, the difference means but I could very well continue listening to my HD800. Now I'll leave him the time to run in as was the case for the HD800.

*At the level of comfort, unfortunately the HD800 is much better. The Abyss weighs his weight and we need to find the correct position to be at ease, especially with glasses*. 
 Pity that we couldn't fit it in height, It will be necessary put the foam to move it up.
  
Frankly the HD800 doesn't have to blush in the light of the price differential between the 2, especially in France. The HD800 with a very good source and a very good amplification remains an excellent headphone.
  
*Now I await receipt of Stax SR009 hoping that it is close to the abyss but with a better comfort, one can always dream**.* "
  
" Now I have a technique to make it comfortable, is passed the elastic headband underneath to raise the headphone. At the beginning it was a real torture to wear but once you have find the right trim, you can spend hours. "
  
 https://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=206103#p206103
 https://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=214108#p214108
  
 P.S. Concerning the wearing comfort on head of the SR-009  I can assure you, it is excellent (whatever the size of the head; my 8-year-old son wear it  without problem, my wife also (little head) and me same (big head))


----------



## Hun7er

Hello Eric65,
  
 Regarding the Abyss confort I have found my setting and I can wear it for hour and hour without feel his weight. It was one of my first review and need more time to manage it.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

eric65 said:


> Hello
> 
> To return to the Stax headphones and at the SR-009 in particular, the most amazing feature that I find with the Stax SR-009 is this ability to spark (create) the sound of nowhere in our head, as suspended, in levitating, between our ears, and not just to simply reproduce it with more or less fidelity.
> I find this quite magical ability.
> ...


 
  
 The Sennheiser HE-60 stats also can do this (HE-60 a little more than HD800 which can come close).  I've described it as "etherial" sounding. The SR-009 improve upon the HE-60 with a warmer and fuller sound signature, although slightly more forward in the mids.


----------



## Hun7er

HE60 was one of my preferred headphone though I prefer the HD800 as it as better bass and imaging.


----------



## eric65

headphoneaddict said:


> The Sennheiser HE-60 stats also can do this (HE-60 a little more than HD800 which can come close).  I've described it as "etherial" sounding. The SR-009 improve upon the HE-60 with a warmer and fuller sound signature, although slightly more forward in the mids.


 
  
 HeadphoneAddict, thank you for your intervention.
  
 I personally don't know the HE-60 (or even the HD-800), but I never get tired of listening to my SR-009 (on the RKV amp in direct); In addition to this specific to the e-stat enough magical sound signature that some describe as Ethereal, but in the magical meaning of the term (sound coming from nowhere), I have always charmed and touched by listening yesterday evening the "dances of Davidsbündler" at Piano of Schumann. 

 The piano is really beautiful with a readability of the game, clarity and a rendering of the reverberations of the strings of the piano extraordinary .
 It does not jump to the eyes (uh pardon to the ears) immediately, but once the ears are in phase with the headphones to perceive all these subtleties and nuances, there is only the concert hall with a very good (as close as possible of the piano) place to enjoy as much the music.


----------



## Hun7er

Hello everybody,
  
 I receive the Stax SR 009 and listen it for 2 hours so it is my first impression about it.
 Firstly I use it with the WEE and the system on my signature.
  
 The imaging is more extended than I thought so it's a very positive point. But I think than my system it's not optimal on the soundstage, I will try soon a more conventionnal rig. 
 It has better details retrieval and nuance than HD800 and Abyss.
 I find it brighter and drier than the HD800 and Abyss. It has slam than others.
  
 I don't find it more effortless or liquid.
  
 There is my first impressions and need to confirm with fast swap between them.


----------



## eric65

hun7er said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> I receive the Stax SR 009 and listen it for 2 hours so it is my first impression about it.
> Firstly I use it with the WEE and the system on my signature.
> ...


 
  
 Hello Hun7er,
  
 Unless this is the Abyss who is a little dark in the upper-mid/treble? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The width of the soundstage of the 009 is not ridiculous; It is very well proportioned and pleasing.
  
 Otherwise, if you found that SR-009 with the Wee (with its transformers) allows a better extraction of the detaills and nuances that the Abyss (and HD-800), you can expect to a slap in the face when you will use an amplifier powerful as the BHSE (or an RKV amp in OTL direct mode ; with the Wee transformers shunted) : you will gain still greater extraction of details and nuances, with even greater reverberations, echoes and presence ...


----------



## eric65

(continued)
  
 When in the bass of the 009, it is far from ridiculous also. It is quite dependent on the amplifier (which must be powerful); The Wee transformers makes it less precise and more colorful http://www.head-fi.org/t/504489/woo-audio-electrostatic-energizer-new-product-from-woo-audio/75#post_10299803. The very low coloration and distortion of the bass with the 009 sometimes gives a feeling of clarity and lack of bass; This is evident when I compare the 009 bass with my speakers. The speed and the readability of the bass of the 009 remains exceptional (with a good amplifier, if possible without transformers).


----------



## Hun7er

eric65 : I'm a little worried about the BHSE with the SR009 that it gives too analytical sound. I prefer a more euphonic sound.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hun7er said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> I receive the Stax SR 009 and listen it for 2 hours so it is my first impression about it.
> Firstly I use it with the WEE and the system on my signature.
> ...


 
  
 My WEE is drier and brighter sounding than a Stax transformer, with better detail but more forward soundstage, and it pairs better with the 007 Mk1. I don't like it nearly as much with my 009, regardless of amp.  With 007 and a 40-watt Marantz receiver you'll be much happier with the WEE.


----------



## eric65

hun7er said:


> eric65 : I'm a little worried about the BHSE with the SR009 that it gives too analytical sound. I prefer a more euphonic sound.


 
  
 Hello Hun7er.
  
 This depends in part on the tubes used for the amplifier with the 009.
  
 The BHSE amplifier used with tubes EL34 PH (instead of the SED) may give the thrill or goose bumps.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/569024/question-about-amps-for-the-stax-sr-009/660#post_10313560

 The Electra with tubes NOS, also (see the comments of Arnaud)

 The RKV in direct mode (without the wee transformers) also (NB: I like story a friend who fell in tears after listening to a work by Rachmaninov piano so the sound of the piano and the artwork were transcribed in all beauty)


----------



## Hun7er

Hello Eric65,
  
 I have begin comparison, I have mainly focus on the HD800 vs SR009.
  
 The rig on test are : 
 -Audio GD M7 -> Acoustic Revive 1.0PA RCA -> McIntosh MC225 -> noname speaker cable -> HE Adapter -> HD800
 -Audio GD M7 -> Oyaide Across Terzo Tunami -> SMC VRE 1 -> Acoustic Revive 1.0PA RCA -> Audio Research D70MKII -> Acoustic Revive Speaker cable -> SR009
  
 I can switch quickly on the 2 rig, 30 seconds. The SR009 is on the better rig which is a bit more laidback thank you to preamp and speaker cable. But there is not a big difference. 
 First of all the two headphone had the same objective neutrality, transparency, air. 
  
 The SR009 is a bit more laidback but I found the mid a bit forward. The HD800 is bit more dynamic and have more slam. Low are more detailed on the HD800. Morever his soundstage is more spacious.


----------



## eric65

hun7er said:


> Hello Eric65,
> 
> I have begin comparison, I have mainly focus on the HD800 vs SR009.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi,
  
 After your preliminary listens, are you going keep your three headphone high-end (HD-800, Abyss and SR-009) or keep only one or two with a powerful amplifier ? which?
 With what amp ?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Hun7er

Hi Eric65,
  
 At this moment I cannot choose because I need to try it with another amp.
  
 This morning I swapped the rig and the SR009 was on my MCIntosh MC225.
 The bass is better, more extended and impactful. Moreover the soundstage is larger. On the other rig the HD800 and Abyss loses openness, the bass becomes bloated like previously the SR009. 
  
 The SR009 is a bit less grainy.
  
 So I prefer the rig with the MCIntosh MC225, I think my Audio Research D70MKII with 2x70 watts is too powerfull and push too power.
  
 But I found an hollowness on Abyss mid and it doesn't have the openness of the SR009 and HD800 on the high. I find it less right than the HD800 and SR009.
  
 So you see it cannot possible to choose at this moment because these headphone are so transparent that you must try them on the better amp. 
  
 I will have a WOO Wa5 full upgraded and it has speaker amp output that throw 10 watts.
 So I can try HD800, Abyss and SR009.


----------



## eric65

hun7er said:


> Hi Eric65,
> 
> At this moment I cannot choose because I need to try it with another amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi Hun7er,
 You progress, you progress 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 In my humble opinion (supporter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), I think know for you one of the best solutions, quite economical for you, to have one of the best amplifiers, almost perfect, in any case universal, to operate, both, your Abyss, your HD-800 and also (and especially) your SR-009 (since you have also the Wee box) in the most satisfactory manner possible with a synergy of hell combining, both, great euphony, transparency, details, presence, width of the soundstage.
  
 This amplifier, currently fashionable in France, is the AudioVlave RKV-mk2 (without the impedancer, and if possible after an small (reversible) operation and accessible to all, without (disabled) the transformers 1:50 of voltage of the Wee (for 009), with the option of the Siemens tubes (exemplary neutrality with)
  
See links:

 http://www.audiovalve.de/rkv/audiovalve%20rkv%20mark2.html
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/504489/woo-audio-electrostatic-energizer-new-product-from-woo-audio/75#post_10299803
  
 RKV-mk2 (in mode OTL) works perfectly (and with a very good synergy) with the HD-800 and it seems also with JPS Abyss.
 (Nb: the OTL mode seems superior in dynamics and presence at when using Impedancer (external) mode which, in my opinion, they are losing dynamics, details sound, transparency and presence).
  
 RKV-mk2 (in OTL mode, without impedancer, without the transformers 1:50 of voltage of the Wee, in short, without no transformers on the audio path) is for me a must with the 009 : this is my base to listen exclusive my Stax 009 (and HD-600) since 6 months, and I do me not tired and not finished amazed with. 
 It is in my opinion  ; RKV-mK2 in OTL mode is much better than with the SRM 727 and the Electra of Frédéric (fitted at the time with not NOS tubes).
  
 In short, for 2 K Euro, with the RKV-mk2, an universal amplifier, you could bring the Grail of audio, with, both, your JPS Abyss, the Sennheiser HD-800 and also (and especially) your Stax SR-009 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Eric


----------



## Hun7er

Hello Eric65,
  
 Yes RKV seems very interested thank you ! 
  
 I listen on the MCIntosh MC225 and it sounds great ! The thing I like the much on this headphone is how well balanced and natural it is. Okay it doesn't have bass that break you head but it presents the music on so coherent manner.
 It has details and subtle nuance that I doesn't hear with others headphones. Voices are pure bliss, so pure and free grain.


----------



## eric65

hun7er said:


> Hello Eric65,
> 
> Yes RKV seems very interested thank you !
> 
> ...


 
  
 You speak of SR-009 + MCIntosh MC225 amp + Wee?
  
 Actually, this set must not be bad; an tubes amp Hi-Fi of quality + Wee can give excellent results with the 009; maybe not in terms of transparency and details maximal, but for the euphony of the whole and the quality of the mids.


----------



## eric65

Hun7er,
  
 You should change the picture of your avatar which seems more to be topical.
But by which of your current headphones: the most beautiful ? or the best ? or the most comfortable? 
Unless one of your three headphones brings together all these qualities or either your favorite. 



 
  
  
EDIT : Go, selected the least colorful of your 3 headphones ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 https://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=218759#p218759
 https://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=218755#p218755


----------



## Hun7er

Ahah yes Eric65 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The most beautiful is the SR009
 The best I don't know
 The most comfortable is the HD800.
  
 Ah you follow me Eric65 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Yes I find the mid on Abyss slightly recessed


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

hun7er said:


> Hi Eric65,
> 
> At this moment I cannot choose because I need to try it with another amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Please don't forget that part of your problem is the Woo WEE.  It's tuned to better suit the SR-007, and can be bright and grainy with my SR-009 and ZDT amp even though my tube selection is tuned for sounding best with HD800 and HE-6 headphones and Epos ELS-3 speakers.  I agree that changing the tone of the amp can improve things a bit, but it's still better with the 007 and it's absolutely perfect with my Lambda Nova Signature.


----------



## eric65

Hi all
  
 I agree with HeadphoneAddict; during a listen for comparative my SR-007mk2 and SR-009 with my SRM-727 and my combo RKV - WEE, the most notable improvement was obtained with the SR-007mk2 + RKV - WEE, passing, in listening quality, of average (with the SRM 727) listening quality (because poorly controlled bass) at quite good with the RKV - WEE (much better controlled bass). However, I find even better with the SR-009 + RKV - WEE in any combination, and even better (a notch more in the improvement of sound) when the voltage transformers (1:50) of WEE were shunted (bypassed).
  

 @ Hun7er, if I summarize your preliminary comparison between your three High-End headphones, have can say:
  
 The most comfortable is the HD-800 (the least being the Abyss)
 The most beautiful is the SR-009 (the least being the Abyss)
 The best, you do know not yet, at the stage of your preliminary comparative listens.
 But that we can also tell (after reading your comment) that the least neutral of these three headphones is the Abyss (compared to the HD-800 and SR-009) in particular because a kinda dug in the mids (high-mid), that you  and others have found, thus distorting timbre (tone) of certain instruments, like violin.


----------



## Hun7er

@HeadphoneAddict : with my MCIntosh MC225 it doesn't seems to be too bright or grainy  
 ​
 @Eric65 : yeah the Abyss suffers for me to lacks of medium. So the SR009 seems to have a thicker sounds because mids giving weight the sound. When I was playing guitar and tuned the equalizer settings I noticed the same behavior for the medium. Less mid give more "spacious" sound and more mid give thicker sound.
 So I think the Abyss has a loudness effect, it doesn't posses the relaxed sound of HD800 and SR009, it's an extra sizzle on the treble. The voice lacks realism and body.


----------



## eric65

Hi Hun7er,
  
 This amendment to the headband of the Abyss should interest you (improved comfort)
  

  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/666765/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-appreciation-and-impressions-thread/945#post_10408550


----------



## eric65

hun7er said:


> Ahah yes Eric65
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You sell on Head-Fi your Abyss it seems.
  
 Surely not an easy choice.
  
 I am sure that in France (or in Europe) many people will be interested, especially at the price proposed.
  
 Good sale.
  
 Eric


----------



## eric65

Hi Hun7er.
  
 I'm happy for you for the success of your sale.
  
 If let me summarize again your appreciation of your three headphones High-End , have can say:
  
 The most comfortable is the HD-800 (the least being the Abyss)
 The most beautiful is the SR-009 (the least being the Abyss)
 The best, you don't know yet, at the stage of your preliminary comparative listens, except that now it would seem, for you, that the Abyss is the best for the quality of the bass, and that the HD800 and SR-009 (ex aequo?) are the best for the quality of the mid and the treble.
  
 I do not know the HD800 (I have only a HD-600), but your choice seems pretty logical to me.
  
 Good listens with your headphones. There are more than for you to tweak your system, starting with an amplifier that goes well with your selection. You will tell us news.
  
 Eric


----------



## eric65

Hi Arnaud.
  
 Strongly the arrival of your BHSE amp for your Stax SR-009 and SR-007mk1 so you can we give news and see the improvements obtained compared to your amplifier Stax SRM-727.

 You are probably visionary 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 on this one by getting ,with the couple SR-009 / BHSE, one of the best platform of sound reproduction, in any case very technically successfully completed (long live the estats!) and very aesthetically.
 A highly desirable platform!
  
 As I read somewhere you will perhaps be one of the last to get a BHSE seen the growing difficulties for the constructor for currently (and in the future) to obtain all parts necessary for its construction, especially at the price proposed (NB: the equivalent of a such amplifier at Stax, isn't near to be produce, at less than multiply the price by a significant factor: x2 ?).

 The choice of the BHSE compared to other amps is not illogical if one refers to the grand comparison of amps directed by Tyll on Innerfidelity where the BHSE seems to stand out from the others amps. http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/listening-great-headphone-amplifiers-and-stax-sr-900

 About the Electra, at least with its original tubes, it seems quite disappointing for its price compared with SRM 727 (see our mini-review : http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2); there are better (BHSE), not to mention my current system: (RKV in direct mode).
  
 Has more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Eric.


----------



## eric65

Hun7er persist and sign in its choice of headphone.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178092337.html#p178092337
  
 Next step: an Eddie Current amp (4-45 ?) for its HD-800 (for details and neutrality) and/or its Abyss (for fun), and then a BHSE (or KGBH) ? for its 009 (for neutrality and subtlety).


----------



## Music Alchemist

So... I had a dream last night of which I can only recall one eerie detail: there were dozens of SR-009s, all ripped and busted up. I was draping them over my arms, asking "Why would someone do this?" All those poor headphones, murdered in cold aluminum. It was like a crime scene, lol. What does it all mean?!


----------



## AnakChan

music alchemist said:


> So... I had a dream last night of which I can only recall one eerie detail: there were dozens of SR-009s, all ripped and busted up. I was draping them over my arms, asking "Why would someone do this?" All those poor headphones, murdered in cold aluminum. It was like a crime scene, lol. What does it all mean?!


 
  
 It means you should probably log-off Head-Fi and check into a rehab.


----------



## Music Alchemist

anakchan said:


> It means you should probably log-off Head-Fi and check into a rehab.


 
  
 Well, I don't exactly control my dreams. I enjoyed reading your reviews, by the way.


----------



## AnakChan

music alchemist said:


> Well, I don't exactly control my dreams. I enjoyed reading your reviews, by the way.


 
  
 It's the subconscious speaking to you there - Stax quietly whispering over your left shoulder, over your right shoulder .
  
 About the reviews, thx! But I do the simple portable stuff. Not confident enough in doing the high end stuff like the Stax.


----------



## Music Alchemist

anakchan said:


> It's the subconscious speaking to you there - Stax quietly whispering over your left shoulder, over your right shoulder .
> 
> About the reviews, thx! But I do the simple portable stuff. Not confident enough in doing the high end stuff like the Stax.


 
  
 Now that I think about it, this almost makes sense. I had made the decision to focus on building a more diverse planar magnetic system before adding electrostats to the equation...so the defiled SR-009s could have been a manifestation of my subconscious, as if beckoning to me, "Why have you forsaken us? Come to the STAX side. It is your destiny."
  
 I just saw your Siltech Duchess portable interconnect review a day or two ago and was wondering where you got them, since they don't seem to be readily available.
  
 Erm... Looks like I'll need to contact the person you got them from for a custom job.


----------



## jackskelly

music alchemist said:


> So... I had a dream last night of which I can only recall one eerie detail: there were dozens of SR-009s, all ripped and busted up. I was draping them over my arms, asking "Why would someone do this?" All those poor headphones, murdered in cold aluminum. It was like a crime scene, lol. What does it all mean?!


 
  
 The SR-009's built quality is very good. I think it could stand a good amount of punishment.
  
 I think it might be a sign for you to start protecting (i.e. trying) some STAX headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But seriously, on another note, the first time my brother listened to my SR-009's, I told him to be sure not to drop them (and he didn't, knock(ed) on wood), but said they look like they could withstand a lot of punishment and still work fine. He imagined that STAX must have a room where they throw their headphones against the wall and all around the room trying to break them to make sure they can withstand a lot of punishment. I told him that was a pretty far-fetched idea, but who knows? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 The thought of purposely trying to break any STAX headphone (or any good headphone) is a sad one to me.


----------



## Jonathan66100

They certainly do the "crash" test , but with detached parts


----------



## Music Alchemist

jackskelly said:


> The SR-009's built quality is very good. I think it could stand a good amount of punishment.
> 
> I think it might be a sign for you to start protecting (i.e. trying) some STAX headphones.
> 
> ...


 

 Oh yeah, the build quality is undoubtedly superb...except for the headband. I've heard stories about it snapping a little too easily. I would also prefer if there was a way to prevent it from sticking out so high above your head. For such a serious headphone, it makes it look silly. At least one person had a custom one made. I may go down that route when the time comes.


----------



## jackskelly

The STAX SR-009 is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_van_Beethoven Of headphones.


----------



## Music Alchemist

jackskelly said:


> The STAX SR-009 is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_van_Beethoven Of headphones.


 
  
 Can't argue with you there!


----------



## francopro

Great review Jude


----------



## eric65

Hello
  
 The competition is good, it is often a source of emulation.
  
 How will now react Stax after the release of the Abyss (a serious, barely more expensive competitor) and especially after the (hypothetical) release of a Sennheiser Orpheus-II system (for 2015?).
 In its time, the Stax Omega system (omega + SRM T2 amp) (released in 1994) replied at system Sennheiser Orpheus (launched in 1991).
  
 The latest generations of electrostatic headphones having finer (and lighter) membranes (as SR-009) are easier to drive and less demanding amplification than previous generations (as SR Omega and SR 007 mk1).
  
 In 2015, Sennheiser will you it produce us a electrostatic headphones of new generation with membranes ultra fine (and light) and with a "light" amplification, or so remain in the "heavy" (for the membrane, the amplifier and the price) ?
  
 How Stax react later: back to heavy or stay at light, with a future SR-011?


----------



## arnaud

Not all of us see this as pi**ing context, but you're always free to spend the money if such Orpheus 2 makes you feel too little with your 009! Need to start saving yesterday apparently but surely that will fill those in need of exclusivity ...
As I said elsewhere, not sure Stax cares as much as we think in its current mode of operation. If battle there was, orthos have won it, and since quite some time ago...
Arnaud


----------



## n3rdling

Unlikely stax even knows what the abyss is. Also double check your diaphragm info as it's completely wrong.


----------



## hentai

just to share my experience using SR-009. Not only the amp,  the headphone is also very particular to the kind of source i use and the quality of cd recordings i listen to. Previously I was using Marantz KI Pearl  and couldn't' help but to feel that the mids were quite dry in some cd recordings.  Then i replaced the cdplayer to a Lector CDP  and the sound improved greatly, it became more musical and smoothing across all cds


----------



## lamode

These headphones seem wonderful. I wasn't at all tempted by the three boat-anchor amplifier choices Jude presented though. Surely there must be a decent solid state contender.


----------



## shipus90

Great review!!


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Sorry for resurrect this thread, but I tried to post this in the amps forum, and in full size headphones too, but I was redirected to help and reccomendations due to my newbie status.
  
 So, I'll post it here, is the SPL Phonitor 2 a good amp for the Stax SR-009?? Here is the thread with the full details:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/777415/spl-phonitor-2-for-stax-sr-009
  
 Thanks and sorry for resurrect this old thread.


----------



## Pokemonn

Phonier can not drive Stax SR-009.
 Stax headphones requier high voltage electrostatic amplifier.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

pokemonn said:


> Phonier can not drive Stax SR-009.
> Stax headphones requier high voltage electrostatic amplifier.


 
 I know, but if you read the thread you will find this:
  
 BUT, also found that the Phonitor 2 is for ALL types of headphones, electrostatics included, here is the proof, scroll down to page 11, in the special features, the 3rd sentence:
  
http://spl.info/fileadmin/user_upload/anleitungen/english/Phonitor2_BA_E.pdf
  
 "• For all types of headphones – dynamic, balanced, electrostatic"
  
 I don't see the 5 pin connector on the Phonitor, so I suppose that one must buy something like a Woo Wee to drive an electrostatic headphone.
  
 ...
  
 So my main question is: Can the Phonitor 2 and a Woo Wee be a good match for the Stax SR-009?


----------



## maverickronin

torofiestasol said:


> I know, but if you read the thread you will find this:
> 
> BUT, also found that the Phonitor 2 is for ALL types of headphones, electrostatics included, here is the proof, scroll down to page 11, in the special features, the 3rd sentence:
> 
> ...


 
  
 It means that it's crossfeed processing is good for 'stats too, not that the amp can actually drive them.  You need to run it's line outs into an actual electrostatic amplifier, or into a speaker amp and then into a step up transformer like the Woo WEE.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

maverickronin said:


> It means that it's crossfeed processing is good for 'stats too, not that the amp can actually drive them.  You need to run it's line outs into an actual electrostatic amplifier, or into a speaker amp and then into a step up transformer like the Woo WEE.


 
 Sorry but I dind't understand you well, my english is limited 
  
 You mean that for drive an electrostatic headphone, I must use another headphone amp between the Phonitor 2 and the Woo Wee? Or only the Woo Wee with the Phonitor 2?
  
 Thanks for your answer


----------



## maverickronin

torofiestasol said:


> Sorry but I dind't understand you well, my english is limited
> 
> You mean that for drive an electrostatic headphone, I must use another headphone amp between the Phonitor 2 and the Woo Wee? Or only the Woo Wee with the Phonitor 2?
> 
> Thanks for your answer


 
  
 You will need speaker amp between the Phonitor 2 and the Woo WEE.
  
 The Woo WEE is an just an adapter that goes between a speaker amp and a Stax electrostatic headphone.  The Woo WEE is not an amplifier itself.  The Phonitor 2 will not be strong enough to power the Woo WEE.by itself either.
  
 The only reason to bother with the Phonitor is if you want it's crossfeed controls.  If you are not interested in Crossfeed and you don't already have a good speaker amp the you would be better off with just an electrostatic headphone amplifier such as the Woo GES or one of the Stax amplifiers.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

maverickronin said:


> You will need speaker amp between the Phonitor 2 and the Woo WEE.
> 
> The Woo WEE is an just an adapter that goes between a speaker amp and a Stax electrostatic headphone.  The Woo WEE is not an amplifier itself.  The Phonitor 2 will not be strong enough to power the Woo WEE.by itself either.
> 
> The only reason to bother with the Phonitor is if you want it's crossfeed controls.  If you are not interested in Crossfeed and you don't already have a good speaker amp the you would be better off with just an electrostatic headphone amplifier such as the Woo GES or one of the Stax amplifiers.


 
  
 Thank you very much!
  
 I ordered an AKG K812 today, that's why I asked for the Phonitor 2, they will be superb tools for my studio 
 Asked for the Stax because for 3000€ (from pricejapan and with a Woo Wee) it's a reasonable future buy for me, but the speaker amp trumped my plans 
  
 Thanks and have a nice day


----------



## HiAudio

I am looking at the SR-009 though I do not have current plan to buy it. I have two questions.
  
 1. Some bought it from PriceJapan. If you also buy amp SRM-007tA from them what power voltage is it? Can you set on the unit to work on 110v or you have to use a an adaptor?
  
 2. as I read the SR-009 cable is not user detachable, so what's the cable SRE-950S for?


----------



## georgeaweezy

I have a question about something that's been bugging me for months. I was just too lazy to signup on the forums prior.
  
 Is it normal for the SR-009 (or any electrostatic headphone for that matter) to pop while I'm eating or chewing with the headphones on? I would guess the SR-009 fit so well that they form a pressure lock, so any kind of chewing will cause the driver to pop in and out. Anyone can shed more light on this, am I damaging the headphones by eating with them on?


----------



## Music Alchemist

hiaudio said:


> I am looking at the SR-009 though I do not have current plan to buy it. I have two questions.
> 
> 1. Some bought it from PriceJapan. If you also buy amp SRM-007tA from them what power voltage is it? Can you set on the unit to work on 110v or you have to use a an adaptor?
> 
> 2. as I read the SR-009 cable is not user detachable, so what's the cable SRE-950S for?


 
  
The link says 100 volts only. You would need a voltage transformer, modified power supply, or perhaps a polarity inverter to use it in your country.
  
 It's an extension cable.
  


georgeaweezy said:


> I have a question about something that's been bugging me for months. I was just too lazy to signup on the forums prior.
> 
> Is it normal for the SR-009 (or any electrostatic headphone for that matter) to pop while I'm eating or chewing with the headphones on? I would guess the SR-009 fit so well that they form a pressure lock, so any kind of chewing will cause the driver to pop in and out. Anyone can shed more light on this, am I damaging the headphones by eating with them on?


 
  
 That's the notorious STAX fart! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 (No worries, it's normal.)


----------



## georgeaweezy

music alchemist said:


> The link says 100 volts only. You would need a voltage transformer, modified power supply, or perhaps a polarity inverter to use it in your country.
> 
> It's an extension cable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah great, thank you mate. The mystery is solved 
 I figured that the pressure lock would help increase the base dB so it wasn't actually a bad thing. Just wasn't sure whether chewing could damage the driver by putting _too_ much pressure on it. Guess not. Thanks for your reply Music Alchemist.


----------



## HiAudio

music alchemist said:


> The link says 100 volts only. You would need a voltage transformer, modified power supply, or perhaps a polarity inverter to use it in your country.
> 
> It's an extension cable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 thanks.
  
 that's funny.


----------



## polton

hiaudio said:


> I am looking at the SR-009 though I do not have current plan to buy it. I have two questions.
> 
> 1. Some bought it from PriceJapan. If you also buy amp SRM-007tA from them what power voltage is it? Can you set on the unit to work on 110v or you have to use a an adaptor?
> 
> 2. as I read the SR-009 cable is not user detachable, so what's the cable SRE-950S for?


 
 950 S is a 5 meters extension cable


----------



## polton

hello
  
 i'm a new happy owner 
 i own(ed) a 507 before
 what an upgrade! incredibly fantastic! far from my dreams


----------



## Darien

No the HD650s are the best headphones ever made and they will still be the best headphones ever made when the sr009 gets replaced by another model.


----------



## Music Alchemist

darien said:


> No the HD650s are the best headphones ever made and they will still be the best headphones ever made when the sr009 gets replaced by another model.


 
  
 I'm just going to humor you here: In which ways does the HD 650 sound better to you than the SR-009?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

HD650 has velour pads, there's nothing better than velour pads.
 Oh, and the upgrades you can do to HD650...mmm +1000 usd cables and 5000usd tube amplifiers for a 300usd headphone...c'mon, you can't do that with Stax!!! (strong irony here)
  

  
 All hail the god of headphones, Chuck Norris said velour pads and Sennheiser made the HD650


----------



## MacedonianHero

music alchemist said:


> I'm just going to humor you here: In which ways does the HD 650 sound better to you than the SR-009?


 
 He won't be answering you anytime soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I have owned the HD650 and the only thing they did better than the SR009s was cost less. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To be fair, I never really got into the HD650s way back when and though I've gone back to them several times in the past, I ended up preferring the HD600s to them.


----------



## Music Alchemist

macedonianhero said:


> He won't be answering you anytime soon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had an HD 650 too and thought it couldn't compare at all to the STAX SR-207.


----------



## MacedonianHero

music alchemist said:


> I had an HD 650 too and thought it couldn't compare at all to the STAX SR-207.


 
  
 I agree there too with you.


----------



## lauren312

The HD 650 is fulfilling my dream with high sound quality and reducing noise attraction. It is so nice headphones that I have ever used. I will buy another one for my brother.


----------



## Dirt McGirt

You want the srm-007 to be 117v for the U.S.


----------



## Selbi

[I hope it's okay to dig this topic out again, even if it's only 2-3 months old.]
  
 This video makes me contemplate. Isn't owning insanely expensive gear "dangerous"? In a twisted way, once you reach a certain level and have gotten used to it, you will find that anything below that sounds like crap.
  
 I remember when I stocked up from my 10€ headphones to 50€ ones and assumed it was the best sound there could ever be, until I bought 250€ headphones and suddenly realized that my 50€ are actually pretty damn lackluster as well. From where I stand right now, I cannot go back down again, because now I *know* what I'm "missing out" with my cheap headphones. So if my 250€ headphones were ever going to break, I simply couldn't pick anything that plays in leagues below it.
  
 If I were to listen to STAX for a couple weeks now, like it was done in this video, wouldn't it just leave me craving to hear that incredible sound again? Instead I would be sitting here with headphones that cost a small fraction of the 10,000€+ one has to pay for STAX plus amp, knowing full well that I'm deluding myself into thinking my 250€ headphones are good.
  
 To put it in one sentence: *Can you get addicted to expensive HiFi gear?*


----------



## arnaud

Well, buying more expensivegear unlocks the pyschological barriers one sets in regards to price limit... we all did like you, I am afraid to say there is no return trip lol.
On the other hand, don't fear you may be missing so much, the fun is also enjoying what you have...


----------



## astrostar59

selbi said:


> [I hope it's okay to dig this topic out again, even if it's only 2-3 months old.]
> 
> This video makes me contemplate. Isn't owning insanely expensive gear "dangerous"? In a twisted way, once you reach a certain level and have gotten used to it, you will find that anything below that sounds like crap.
> 
> ...


 

 Naa, don't agree. The enjoyment of good audio gear IMO totally pays back in the hours and hours of enjoyment you can get. Lets look at the cost of a car for example, 3 years later you sell it and want the next newer model. Yes there are upgrade obsessives but I have had some hifi gear for years going back to when I started this hobby, lot longer than a car last. I think it comes down to priorities. Most folk can cut back on something else divert some cash for a better setup.
  
 There is a level of gear that pretty much ticks all the boxes. That level is very personal, and with care it doesn't need to bankrupt you. Plenty of advice and ideas on here for example. You can build a DAC or amp from a DIY group buy, there are DAC kits (tubed) which I have build in the past. Or buy used. Options.
  
 IMO the bizarre aspect of high end headphone systems is the 'one person' aspect of it. It is not so much a sharing hobby lets face it. Yes 2 sockets on the amp bla boa, but how many of use really have the other half as involved to the same extent? I would put it myself at 10% use to my 90%. So that does leave a money issue right there, to justify a personal spend in a relationship.
  
 Anyway, my thoughts. If you have the interest and the passion in music keep going is my advice.


----------



## smodtactical

For you 009 owners. How do you find the bass impact and power compared to other dynamic and planar headphones?


----------



## MacedonianHero

smodtactical said:


> For you 009 owners. How do you find the bass impact and power compared to other dynamic and planar headphones?



I was always happy with the bass impact, though not in love with it. Hit a bit too quickly with minimal bloom that made the mental image seem a tad over-sharpened. I think the Focal Utopia do a better job in this regard and maintain much of the speed and improve on the dynamics overall.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

smodtactical said:


> For you 009 owners. How do you find the bass impact and power compared to other dynamic and planar headphones?


With my KGBH amp the 009 had great bass impact and foundation, but with my eXtatA and KGSS I felt the bass was too thin. 

In the end I sold the KGBH and KGSS along with my 007 and 009 to help fund my daughter's college education. But I kept my Sennheiser Baby Orpheus forever (HEV70 + HE60) and eXtatA which I have to install my new hybrid amps boards one of these days.


----------

