# What are the best S/PDIF cables?



## MilesCirno

So I need some good S/PDIF cables.
 I keep getting told to buy Monster cables, but I want a true audiophile's opinion of which cables I should buy.
 I want high quality audio.
 Thanks


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## OverlordXenu

It doesn't matter, it's digital. I personally use Blue Jeans Cable, because they are good quality and I can get any length I want.


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## krmathis

Optical (TOSLINK, Miniplug, ...) or Electrical (RCA, XLR, ...)?
 Anyway, I am very pleased with my VdH The Optocoupler MKII.


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## stevenkelby

Read through his ^ previous posts and make up your own mind about him...

 There are differences in digital cables as has been explained to him by others far more knowledgeable.

 He's right about BJC though, great value:

Digital Audio Cables at Blue Jeans Cable


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## stevenkelby

Not Krmathis btw, he's cool. The ^ was referring to the other poster above him.


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## OverlordXenu

Oh yeah, you're right. That 1m $100 cable transmits those ones and zeros so much better than my $19 12ft cable from BJC. It makes the darks so much blacker and it really warms the audio signature.


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## MilesCirno

Thanks everyone.
 Which is better?
 My receiver can do both Optical and Electrical.


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## stevenkelby

OP, just ignore him, as I said, make up your own mind about who's a troll and who's helpful.

 There is an audible difference between those 2 cables but you need thousands of dollars of equipment and good ears to hear it. Even then the difference is small.

 The vandenhul is much nicer, better made and will be more durable too, but there is nothing wrong with the BJC at all.

 Go for the BJC unless moneys not an issue.

 If your using the PC as a source, go optical or else there will be noise in the signal, (minimal again and might not be audible to you in your system) otherwise, coaxial is technically better.


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## MilesCirno

Thanks
 I'll go for TOSLINK then.


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## tot

Optical might have more jitter and coax may cause ground loop problems because of electrical connection.

 You could try both using cheap cables (75 ohm video cable is fine for coax) to see if there is any difference.


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## stevenkelby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Optical might have more jitter and coax may cause ground loop problems because of electrical connection.

 You could try both using cheap cables (75 ohm video cable is fine for coax) to see if there is any difference._

 

That;s the best plan, and if you go from BJC you can return the one you like least. Not sure if that's really ethical though...


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## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stevenkelby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OP, just ignore him, as I said, make up your own mind about who's a troll and who's helpful.

 There is an audible difference between those 2 cables but you need thousands of dollars of equipment and good ears to hear it. Even then the difference is small.

 The vandenhul is much nicer, better made and will be more durable too, but there is nothing wrong with the BJC at all.

 Go for the BJC unless moneys not an issue.

 If your using the PC as a source, go optical or else there will be noise in the signal, (minimal again and might not be audible to you in your system) otherwise, coaxial is technically better._

 

Tell me how there is a difference, please, because I do not understand how one cable could sound any different at all from the other if they are both transmitting the same data correctly.


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## tot

Different cables cause different amounts of jitter, which is the error in timing of the bits in the cable. The DAC uses the timing to drive it's conversion.

 Whether the amount of jitter caused by the cable is audible in the first place is of course arguable. And proper DAC should reject incoming jitter in the first place.


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## stevenkelby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tell me how there is a difference, please,_

 

No, that would be like trying to teach my dog to drive. It would waste my time and upset my dog.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do not understand_

 

That's your problem, you've had plenty of opportunity to learn here from smarter people than me, don't come to me for help! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is no longer the place for people to try and help you understand, you've made yourself unwelcome, IMO. If you don't know why, I can't help you there either.

 There's more to cables than first meets the eye. (ear)


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## OverlordXenu

Ah, yes. There is the marketing and the mark-up. If there is such a night-and-day difference, then it should be easy to explain.

 How does a cable change the way 10101010101 sounds? Does the $100 cable add more zeros? Does the $20 cable take away ones?

 Because I don't see how anything outside altering the bit stream is going to make digital cables affect the sound.


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## tot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does a cable change the way 10101010101 sounds? Does the $100 cable add more zeros? Does the $20 cable take away ones?

 Because I don't see how anything outside altering the bit stream is going to make digital cables affect the sound._

 

You should read a bit how S/PDIF works, and this has been covered many times.

 But in short, it is not just bits in digital signal. The DAC recovers the clock using leading edges of the bits. However, the edges are not exactly correct and have timing errors. The errors are caused by the senders clock and output circuitry, the cable and the DAC's input circuitry.


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## stevenkelby

Tot, as I understand it there is no such thing as a digital signal through a S/PDIF cable, they are analogue signals treated as digital. The cable is actually carrying a wave, there is a range of values equaling a 1 and a range for 0. If the wave strays outside that range, buts get lost. Timing is an also an issue as you say, which is corrected within a certain range, if it strays outside that range, it's lost. Does that sound correct?


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## tot

No, it is a square wave which changes sides (+max or -max) for every bit. If the bit to send is one, the second half of the wave goes to zero.


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## stevenkelby

Thanks. Is the value of the square wave always of the same size for a 1 or a 0, or does it vary within a range? 

 What is the wave made of anyway? Voltage? Frequency?


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## tot

The wave is voltage in the cable. I don't recall what the limit is, but basically you have three possible values: +max, 0, -max.

 The frequency of the signal in the cable for CD is 2 * 32 * 44100 * 2 =~5.6Mhz.


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## slwiser

I want digital cables that are just adequate to feed my Lavry DA10 a good signal that it can resolve and control. I think any more is not necessary. But I am open to be educated. 

 I surprisingly found that better cables do make a difference in certain locations. Specially cables that carry the ground signal can be different from each other. There are secondary effects of signal design that at the resolutions of a lot of equipment around here can be noted but just not understood very well. This may also be true on the digital side but I have not come to even know of those effects yet.


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## jaduffy007

Miles....try to use BNC connectors on coaxial cables if possible as they are true 75ohm connectors. RCA are not.

 Just for the record...digital ICs *can* make a very significant difference in sound.

 DH Labs is a great, affordable place to begin *your experiments* to see if you hear a difference.

 Good luck!


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## ruZZ.il

There's also a problem that arises from a wave transferred through medium changes (ie, impurities in a fiber optic cable, resistance mismatch in current carried signals, the borders between different types of glass/plastic, etc..) so like when a string with a wave traveling down it that hits a point where the string is tied to a different medium the wave will be partially reflected and partially transfered (depending on the differences in medium) as is with any digital signal through a cable, or light or whatever. In a cable, this reflected wave would hit the other end of the cable, and create another reflected/transferred wave, and so forth.. from any given wave, multiple reflections sum up within the cable always being partially transfered to the receiving end, that is to determine whether a signal is either a 1 or a zero (for instance above half a volt or below half volt).. if this reflected signal sums up with enough other reflected signals it could potentially cause a fake positive (ie, above half a volt). There are other phenomena, like dispersion. This is an effect on how the individual sinusoidal signals that are put together to create a square wave travel in the first place. the higher frequencies travel faster, flattening a wave. this could put the timing off on long lengths of cable, or even low quality cables, depending on the frequencies used. These are only some of the digital distortions a signal may be submitted to before reaching a receiver, and the quality of the receiver determines how well it copes with these things. How well it can differentiates between an intended or unintended step and the time it determines is between them. One must remember that light behaves in a wave like manner too, so these effects occur even in optical devices.. bottom line is that this is an analog world, with mostly sinusoidal signals, and digital science is made up from an analog nature, and just because one doesn't know of something nor understand it, that it doesn't mean it isn't so. I also understand that my understanding IS limited, and often inaccurate and that I often simplify things to the verge of being incorrect, so this is all with a bucket of salt. but something to think about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 made you read haha...

Wave Reflection at an Impedance Discontinuity


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## mofonyx

I use Supra X-ZAC


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## riffer

Blue Jeans Cables using the Belden 1694A cable with Canare RCA or BNC connectors.


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## Omom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riffer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Blue Jeans Cables using the Belden 1694A cable with Canare RCA or BNC connectors._

 

2x...


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## OverlordXenu

So, is that $100 cable going to work any better than that $20 BJC?


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## dvw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 But in short, it is not just bits in digital signal. The DAC recovers the clock using leading edges of the bits. However, the edges are not exactly correct and have timing errors. The errors are caused by the senders clock and output circuitry, the cable and the DAC's input circuitry._

 

This is partially correct but not inaccurate. Bits are still bits unless they changed. DAC do recover clocks but today's DAC also retimes.

 The bit are actually represented by two symbols. The advantage of biphase coding is clock recovery is easier and simpler. The tradeoff is higher bandwidth.

 For more detail and precise description.

http://www.epanorama.net/documents/audio/spdif.html


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## tot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dvw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bits are still bits unless they changed. DAC do recover clocks but today's DAC also retimes._

 

I am not trying to argue that jitter should matter, a proper DAC should reclock and be immune to incoming jitter. Historically this was not true and I am not convinced that all today's DAC are "proper" ones. 

 Bits should go through just fine with a proper cable on short runs, that should not be a problem.


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## zer061zer0

Not sure if i can seek some help here, I have a laptop that uses one of the heaphone out, a 3.5mmsocket as the spdif out. I tried using a coax cable with a adaptor to a mono3.5mm plug to my LITE-AH DAC it dun work. tried a normal 3.5-3.5mm cable with a 3.5mm-to-RCA jack adaptor, it don't work again. 

 Can I know if this is correct and if there is any settings to take note of? I am using a HP tx1000 series laptop, running on vista, i change to the digital out setting but my headamp doesn't give any output at all. 

 Did i use the wrong cable? or was my connection/settings wrong?


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## ruZZ.il

you sure its not an optical SPDIF? If so, check this out, i did it and it works great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 you can try sticking a toothpick in and seeing if it turns a red diode inside on.. theres would be a little switch at the end if its the same as mine.


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## krmathis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zer061zer0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure if i can seek some help here, I have a laptop that uses one of the heaphone out, a 3.5mmsocket as the spdif out. I tried using a coax cable with a adaptor to a mono3.5mm plug to my LITE-AH DAC it dun work. tried a normal 3.5-3.5mm cable with a 3.5mm-to-RCA jack adaptor, it don't work again. 

 Can I know if this is correct and if there is any settings to take note of? I am using a HP tx1000 series laptop, running on vista, i change to the digital out setting but my headamp doesn't give any output at all. 

 Did i use the wrong cable? or was my connection/settings wrong?_

 

Your laptop most probably have a combined 3.5mm headphone out and optical S/PDIF. Just like other laptops out there, like my MacBook Pro.
 Hence you need a suitable optical cable, instead of the coax one you use now.


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## JML

There's a very interesting test of HDMI and 75 ohm video cables at PC World - The Cable Game. It was done a couple of years ago. Not the cable type you're looking for, but given that the HDMI cable is doing something similar, you might find it useful to read over.


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## zer061zer0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *krmathis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your laptop most probably have a combined 3.5mm headphone out and optical S/PDIF. Just like other laptops out there, like my MacBook Pro.
 Hence you need a suitable optical cable, instead of the coax one you use now._

 

Sure i will try getting a 3.5mm plug to optical DAC cable.
 Thanks.


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## ruZZ.il

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zer061zer0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure i will try getting a 3.5mm plug to optical DAC cable.
 Thanks._

 

Reposting this link for relevance. It works perfectly on my Macbook Pro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Free too, since I used the cable that I think came with my PS2.. or something.

 edit: my TOSlink cable mod was a bit different, but that site basically tells you what needs to be done, switch wise.


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## arjuna93

zer061zer0 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *krmathis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...



WireWorld SuperNova and some older Audio-Technica ArtLink versions match the requirement.


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## Signal2Noise

^
14 years. Holy thread resurrection Batman!


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## The Jester

A digital cable does carry just ones and zeros,
an Spdif cable also carries a clock signal...


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## arjuna93

The Jester said:


> A digital cable does carry just ones and zeros,
> an Spdif cable also carries a clock signal...



BTW I have seen BNC clock cables. Are these identical to coaxial or something differs?


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## The Jester

Should be the same, I’ve seen optical used for clock cables too ..


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