# Good news about Android phone supports digital audio output



## JamesFiiO

Dear all, we just receive an email from our user, he confirm that Galaxy S2 can output digital audio output. I think it is a very good news for audiophile who own an Android phone ( maybe it should support OTG/USB host function), 
   
We will design a new Mini USB to Macro USB cable with L type connector so it can be easy installed in Galaxy S2 and our E7/E17.  Also I think it will be a good place to ask if someone can help us to test it when we have the sample
   
cable. we will send free cable to you , of course, you must have one Android phone which seems to be support OTB/USB host function, an E7 or E17, and have the knowledge to install some special firmware to your Android phone.
   
below is the content of the mail. 
   
"Hi guys. I have confirmed that I can stream digital audio from a Samsung Galaxy S2(and other smart phones) to my FIIO E7 by using the a Cyanogenmod nightly released version of Gingerbread!

 The only problem is that there isn't a very convenient cabling solution. No one makes a mini usb male to a micro usb male cable.

 I can do it by using this cable.
http://www.gohastings.com/product/ELECTRONICS/Flexicord-Cable-USB-A-Male-to-Micro-USB-5-Pin-1-ft./sku/286424943.uts?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shoppingsite&utm_campaign=electronics&CAWELAID=1187237537,

 In combination with this adapter.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off&q=mini+to+typ+a+female&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=638&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=18308430724946069383&sa=X&ei=p8N_T6bUJbTKiQKnjq3uAg&ved=0CH4Q8wIwAA

 But the end result is bulky mess in my pocket. There are hundreds and thousands of people who want to use your products with there android devices, I know because I've read through many forums.

 Is it possible for you guys to either make, or have a proper cable made to sell on your website? Something very short and with L shaped connecters?

 It seems to me that this product would be very popular and it would further increase the sales of your other devices. You should do yourself s and the rest of non Iphone community a favor by making this product available."


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## a_tumiwa

it`s very good news , one of the best news in this 3 months


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## jgray91

Would you also consider doing, or make it compatible with the latest batch of Nokia Belle devices too? Starting from the N8, they have always supported USB OTG from the get go. It's one of their selling features, if highly unused.


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## panzerfan

I can provide some background information about the reason for this.
   
  The reason why this would work lies in a combination of two things:
   
  1. Galaxy SII i9100 (International variant) has USB Host capability, which relies both on driver and hardware level support.
  2. Cyanogenmod 7/9 (which is available on i9100) provide the needed usbaudio.c driver in Kernel, along with other things, to allow generic USB sound cards to be recognized by Android.
   
  Sufficiently short USB OTG cable can be found as we speak, at the length of around 6-7cm. 
   
  It is important to know that not all Android devices have the USB Host capability, which is what enables a user to connect USB peripherals to their devices if they so wish. Without this ability, your device cannot use any USB DAC, or any USB peripheral.
   
  Currently, a few devices support USB Audio right ought of the box. Archos tablet G9 is one such examples.
   
  There is a link here http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614 to the page for the petitioning of adding USB Audio driver support to all Android devices. Please join the petition!


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## a_tumiwa

@panzerfan, do you think other custom rom based on cyanogenmod will support too? because i think CM is created mainly for developer only


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## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





panzerfan said:


> I can provide some background information about the reason for this.
> 
> The reason why this would work lies in a combination of two things:
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you very much for this very useful information. I believe that there will more and more android phone support USB host/OTG function.


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## panzerfan

Quote: 





a_tumiwa said:


> @panzerfan, do you think other custom rom based on cyanogenmod will support too? because i think CM is created mainly for developer only


 
   
  Custom roms should work, so long as the kernel used are based off of Cyanogenmod kernels. It is a bit of a shame that we don't have universal support on a kernel level, even in ICS for this. I know of only Archos as a vendor with out-of-the box device support for such a thing.
   
  I really hope that the gate to hi-fi on Android can be let open for all Android devices... many generic USB Audio devices, from USB speakers, car audio to DAC, will become easily assessable for all Android users, making the selection of audio sources much, much more diverse.


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## beaver316

This is great news! I really hope this takes off. I don't have a SGS2 though, only an HTC Desire HD. Maybe someone with the same phone can test to see if it works?


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## kova4a

Nice! That's really good news. It will be nice if someone can send a Fiio DAC to the developer of the USB Host (OTG) for the Galaxy S and Nexus S, so he can work on the support in the driver. I still hope for out-of-the-box support in the new android phones like the upcoming Galaxy S3 but for now the above is pretty good news. Also, I can test on several android phones the new cable when it's ready.


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## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





kova4a said:


> Nice! That's really good news. It will be nice if someone can send a Fiio DAC to the developer of the USB Host (OTG) for the Galaxy S and Nexus S, so he can work on the support in the driver. I still hope for out-of-the-box support in the new android phones like the upcoming Galaxy S3 but for now the above is pretty good news. Also, I can test on several android phones the new cable when it's ready.


 


  We did send our E7 to one developer, but I don't think the original firmware will includes, but I think it will not be a problem in the future because iPhone can support digital music output but it is too expensive to develop it not to talk about the MFi licence which we had applied from 2008 but still in processing.
   
  I don't think we can get the licence. Anyway, I think and believe Android will be an good option.


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## Anaxilus

I don't have a Galaxy SII but I do have a Nokia N8 if you would like to test the cable on other USB2go devices.


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## Kojaku

If you'd like to know if this works for android tablets, I could try my HP Touchpad with CyanogenMod9 

Kojaku


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## Thran

This sounds great Ive been wanting to try and get my e7 to work with my S2. just have to add this mod to my phone, don't think it would be too hard since my phone is already rooted.


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## Zenifyx

Guys, one of the requirements for this is USB OTG, this does not mean all USB OTG devices will work with it...
  If you are interested in trying out if it works, simply get a USB OTG adapter (can be gotten via dealextreme at 2 for $2) and I believe most people will have a usb to micro usb cable lying around...
  I expect spending an extra dollar is better than expecting to get a free product just to see if your device has this functionality (which it probably does not)
   
  Some have reported it working with a Nook Color and some other devices, but that's about it as far as I know...
  For a list for supposedly working devices, look here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=23461551&postcount=29
   
  This functionality is based in the kernel.
  Until Google adds this functionality into stock firmwares, it rests in the hands of kernel developers.
   
  It is a relatively low priority issue, so don't expect to see it soon.


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## varunkumar

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Mini-B-5-Pin-male-to-Micro-5pin-male-Adapter-cable-/270803395745?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0d23e4a1
  MIcro USB-TO Mini USB cable. I bought it from this seller in ebay. You can trust him.


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## Half Decaf

Quote: 





varunkumar said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Mini-B-5-Pin-male-to-Micro-5pin-male-Adapter-cable-/270803395745?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0d23e4a1
> MIcro USB-TO Mini USB cable. I bought it from this seller in ebay. You can trust him.


 

 Yep, I bought a couple of these guys, myself. I don't have anything that needs interconnection, yet, but I'm ready for that day.  .
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


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## Anaxilus

Just to clarify, the Nokia comes w/ the adapter and cable already, it doesn't need anything.  I'm just offering another data point if anyone cares to test and market something beyond Android devices.


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## Zenifyx

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Just to clarify, the Nokia comes w/ the adapter and cable already, it doesn't need anything.  I'm just offering another data point if anyone cares to test and market something beyond Android devices.


 


  Just curious, but if you have the cable and adapter already, why would you require another cable to test if it works?
   
  And Android does not support usb digital audio out as of now.
  Until Google adds that capability with an update, we are limited to either having the manufacturer adding the capability to their devices (pretty unlikely for most) or having flashing a custom kernel (assuming kernel developers have added that capability)


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## Anaxilus

Quote: 





zenifyx said:


> Just curious, but if you have the cable and adapter already, why would you require another cable to test if it works?


 

 Omg, I'm offering to test their cable, not my phone!  My phone works, it's what I use.  Nokia N8 > UHA6S via USB.  It's in my sig.


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## a_tumiwa

Nokia N8? is it Symbian^3 ? does all symbian 3 support digital out too?
   
   
  Just download Cyanogenmod 9 and have sgs2, cable data for sgs2, and adaptor female usb to male mini usb, will try this tomorrow.
  if this work, then i think the fiio cable should also work.


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## panzerfan

Do let us know how that turns out, a_tumiwa. The bad news that I've gotten is that even with Cyanogenmod, due to the variation in kernel from one device to another, there's no guarantee if it'll work... Nook for one require some other 3rd party Kernel to make it happen.
   
  I am waiting to see if any developer for the T-Mobile v. of Galaxy S2 has come up with a kernel that's implemented this support... I hope my phone can work with this.
   
  As an aside, I raise that we should organize all information on confirmed devices that work, what configuration is required, what's the experience and how to make it happen as a Q&A for other Android users. This is relevant more to just head-fi, but the audiophile community...
   
  EDIT:
   
  Francisco Franco, who's working on Fiio E7 with Galaxy Nexus, gave a 'bad news' report on the 27th of March. 
   
  By the way, here's a rundown of what works at the moment, according to "danba" on XDA:
   
. Google Nexus One smartphone
http://sven.killig.de/android/N1/2.2/usb_host/#x11
. HTC Desire smartphone
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...1&postcount=46
. Nook Color tablet
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1459892
. Archos G9 tablet
http://update.archos.com/9/gen9/chan...id_gen9it4.htm
. Ainol Novo 7 tablet
http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/2928...vers-and-libs/


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## eelllliioott

Quote: 





> Just download Cyanogenmod 9 and have sgs2, cable data for sgs2, and adaptor female usb to male mini usb, will try this tomorrow.
> if this work, then i think the fiio cable should also work.


 
   
  I'm really keen to know how you get on. Also which version of cyanogen mod 9 you use, kernal etc.
   
  I couldn't get it to work with the usbotg cable connected to a micro usb cable. It actually charges my E7, but no sound. I have a feeling it might only work with cyanogen mod 7. Not everything is yet working in 9.
   
  I have the correct cable ordered on ebay so we shall see. If its connected to the usb sound in car kit, I have read in XDA that this is still to bge submited, but will be soon. We shall see....


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## DanBa

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> "Hi guys. I have confirmed that I can stream digital audio from a Samsung Galaxy S2 (and other smart phones) to my FIIO E7 by using the a Cyanogenmod nightly released version of Gingerbread!"


 
   
  CyanogenMod 7 firmware is based on Android 2.3 Gingerbread with additional custom code contributed by the CyanogenMod Team.


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## panzerfan

Sad to report that T-mobile v. of Galaxy S2, running Eugene's Cyanogenmod 7 Kang doesn't do it...


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## kamikazeee

Did anyone try with Fiio E10?


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## john65537

Quote: 





danba said:


> CyanogenMod 7 firmware is based on Android 2.3 Gingerbread with additional custom code contributed by the CyanogenMod Team.


 


 Does this mean my android 2.3.4 tablet may use a USB/DAC after CyanogenMod rebuild?
  That's a good news.
  I think Android will loose some market share due to the lack of USB/DAC support.


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## Zenifyx

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Omg, I'm offering to test their cable, not my phone!  My phone works, it's what I use.  Nokia N8 > UHA6S via USB.  It's in my sig.


 


  Oops, my bad...
   
  Anyway, has anyone else confirmed this working with the SGS2 on CM7/9?
  The details in the OP seems vague - it doesn't even state which nightly release it worked on...
  Things can get broken between releases.


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## DanBa

Quote: 





john65537 said:


> Does this mean my android 2.3.4 tablet may use a USB/DAC after CyanogenMod rebuild?
> That's a good news.
> I think Android will loose some market share due to the lack of USB/DAC support.


 
   

  Yes, it is possible.
   
  If your tablet is able to support the USB host feature, your tablet has the USB host controller chip, or hardware, allowing the USB audio support.
   
  Concerning the software allowing the USB audio support, Android relies on Linux for core system services such as driver model. The Linux kernel acts as an abstraction layer between the hardware and the rest of the software stack.
   
   

   
   
  Advanced Linux Sound Architecture or ALSA is a Linux kernel component.
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Linux/AudioArchitecture.htm
   
   

   
   
  Android includes the ALSA source code which can be compliant with USB audio class devices, like standard USB DAC.
https://bitbucket.org/paulobrien/android_kernel_galaxynexus/src/bc4f9b72a51d/sound/usb/card.c
   
  If the hardware is able to support USB host, it remains to enable the USB audio feature with proper software configuration settings.
   
   
  For the time being, the standard USB devices for USB host-capable Android devices are only USB hubs, USB mass storage devices and USB class for human interface devices (for example, mice and keyboards).
   
  We have to lobby for imposing USB DAC as a standard Android USB device, like a standard USB device for every Mac or PC (i.e. we don’t have to request each individual PC manufacturer to add the USB audio capability).
   
  Google should include USB host (and USB audio) on every new Google "Nexus" device, which is supposed to be a reference Android device for others.
   
  The 1st out-of-the-box (i.e. without modding) Android device able to support USB audio is the Android 4.0 ICS powered Archos G9.
  http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/15/archos-80-g9-turbo-ics-tablet-now-shipping/
  http://update.archos.com/9/gen9/changes_firmware_archos_android_gen9it4.htm
   
  Archos G9 & Logitech USB speaker
  http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=23852275
   
   

   
   
   
  The Google issue "Enable USB audio", requesting Google to standardize USB audio on Android smartphones/tablets, is currently ranked 15 of 20,090.
  url=http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614&sort=-stars&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20Stars
   
  Vote: Click on the star (it appears after signing in)


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## john65537

Wow! Great!
 Thank you for such a detailed explanation.
 I think my tablet is able to host Usb because sometimes I plug it into a Rmvb player or notebook for file accessing.
Looks like I have to learn Android reroot tricks. :rolleyes:


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## eelllliioott

Hi,
   
  Any new information about this working. There is much discussion on XDA regarding this issue and there does not appear to be anyone working on it although there is a lot of talk with users.
   
  What I would really like to know are the details regarding the "confirmed success" with the SG2 and the E7. We need information such as the build number, kernel used etc so that this can be reproduced and possibly ported to ICS CM9 for example or kernel such as siyha.
   
  I have tried this with CM7 my self and could not get it working.
   
  We need details please!
   
  Thanks!


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## a_tumiwa

mine with cm9 and cm kernel v3.0.15 was not working too, looks like this is just an april mob.
  its only work for Nook Tablet with CM7 and modification of  CM kernel by Nook itself


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## Zenifyx

Quote: 





a_tumiwa said:


> mine with cm9 and cm kernel v3.0.15 was not working too, looks like this is just an april mob.
> its only work for Nook Tablet with CM7 and modification of  CM kernel by Nook itself


 


  Well, it might be that it was working in a release and got broken in subsequent releases.
  The firmware referred to was 'a Cyanogenmod nightly released version of Gingerbread' which is kind of vague since there are hundreds of nighly releases...
   
  It would be good if feiao could confirm exactly which nightly released version the 'user' was using when he/she confirmed that this feature was present...
  It would be much simpler if we could help pinpoint the sources with that feature working, would help much in asking developers to implement the feature too...


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## eelllliioott

Quote: 





zenifyx said:


> Well, it might be that it was working in a release and got broken in subsequent releases.
> The firmware referred to was 'a Cyanogenmod nightly released version of Gingerbread' which is kind of vague since there are hundreds of nighly releases...
> 
> It would be good if feiao could confirm exactly which nightly released version the 'user' was using when he/she confirmed that this feature was present...
> It would be much simpler if we could help pinpoint the sources with that feature working, would help much in asking developers to implement the feature too...


 



 Exactly! Some information please FiiO!
   
  Did the person that emailed you with this information give you any more specific details?
   
  If we could find that out maybe it could be fully implemented and make you lots of money from people buying your stuff!
   
  If we could at least have this person s user name we could email him ourselves!
   
  Thanks


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## john65537

Quote: 





danba said:


> ....................
> The 1st out-of-the-box (i.e. without modding) Android device able to support USB audio is the Android 4.0 ICS powered Archos G9.
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/15/archos-80-g9-turbo-ics-tablet-now-shipping/
> http://update.archos.com/9/gen9/changes_firmware_archos_android_gen9it4.htm


 

 Does this mean apart from a CyanogenMod, some Android 4.0 ICS kernel also support USB/DAC?
 If it's true then ReRoot to Android 4.0 ICS might help.


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## Zenifyx

Quote: 





john65537 said:


> Does this mean apart from a CyanogenMod, some Android 4.0 ICS kernel also support USB/DAC?
> If it's true then ReRoot to Android 4.0 ICS might help.


 

  
  Google Android does not natively support usb dac as far as I know...
  For Archos G9, it might be that Archos added the feature themselves, since it's the only device known to have the feature without flashing a custom kernel.
   
  And it is not exactly working with Cyanogenmod, just that the OP states that someone 'confirmed' that it was working with a CM7 nightly version on the SGS2. (which no second person has been able to replicate yet to 're-confirm' this)


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## visanj

I really don't understand this. In Galaxy S2, there is an option 'Dock Settings' in which I can see 'Audio Output Mode' option. If we tick this it seems audio will route through Dock. Since Galaxy S2 only has USB port the audio should route through USB port
   
  In this case how Galaxy S2 will come to know if the connected device is a dock or USB DAC? Is there any message/header communication with the device?


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## a_tumiwa

visanj said:


> I really don't understand this. In Galaxy S2, there is an option 'Dock Settings' in which I can see 'Audio Output Mode' option. If we tick this it seems audio will route through Dock. Since Galaxy S2 only has USB port the audio should route through USB port
> 
> In this case how Galaxy S2 will come to know if the connected device is a dock or USB DAC? Is there any message/header communication with the device?


 
   
  as far as i know, the dock of galaxy S2 has build-in amp


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## eelllliioott

Quote: 





visanj said:


> I really don't understand this. In Galaxy S2, there is an option 'Dock Settings' in which I can see 'Audio Output Mode' option. If we tick this it seems audio will route through Dock. Since Galaxy S2 only has USB port the audio should route through USB port
> 
> In this case how Galaxy S2 will come to know if the connected device is a dock or USB DAC? Is there any message/header communication with the device?


 


   


  Quote: 





a_tumiwa said:


> as far as i know, the dock of galaxy S2 has build-in amp


 

  
   
  Its an analog "digital" signal that goes through the dock. Not a proper digital signal for a DAC


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## Deltaechoe

Alright there seems to be a lot of crap flying around in this thread so I'm going to attempt to set it right.  First of all, CM9 *DOES NOT* support usb DACs natively, maybe in the future but certainly not right now.  Second, since android does not have native ALSA support, the only devices that will work with a usb DAC are ones that have the ALSA support hacked into the kernel (you will have to do some research to find out which ones).  Third, there is only one device that I know of that will support digital usb line out out of the box and that's the Archos G9 tablet.


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## DanBa

"[64GB + 64GB] #GalaxySIII includes an USB driver named "snd-usb-audio" [ALSA USB audio driver]. Only testing will tell if it means USB DAC are supported out of the box." [Supercurio]
  https://twitter.com/#!/supercurio/status/198218860128780289
   
   
  The Google issue "Enable USB audio", requesting Google to standardize USB audio on Android smartphones/tablets, is currently ranked 12 of 21,436.
  http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614&sort=-stars&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20Stars
   
  It is ranked in top 2 of less than one-year-old requests.
   
  Vote: Click on the star (it appears after signing in)


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## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





danba said:


> "[64GB + 64GB] #GalaxySIII includes an USB driver named "snd-usb-audio" [ALSA USB audio driver]. Only testing will tell if it means USB DAC are supported out of the box." [Supercurio]
> https://twitter.com/#!/supercurio/status/198218860128780289
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Good news, will buy a Galaxy III to have a try!


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## JamesFiiO

We may develop a new portable DAC for all Android phone , some different with our E17/E7,
   
  1, the power is total powered by build in battery, we may consider to provide extra battery to the phone too. maybe we can put a 3000mAh battery inside the DAC, lol.
   
  2, maybe only support up to 48k/16bit if the phone can only output such format, but we may use better DAC like WM8741 which is better than WM8740,
   
  3, better EMI design to prevent the GSM interference.
   
  4, slim design to pair with smartphone.


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## DanBa

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> We may develop a new portable DAC for all Android phone , some different with our E17/E7,
> 
> 2, maybe only support up to 48k/16bit if the phone can only output such format


 
   
   
  Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich includes the USB Audio Driver for ALSA which can be compliant with USB Audio Class 2 (UAC 2) devices allowing for 24 bits / 192 kHz among others.
  http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_Audio.htm
  https://bitbucket.org/franciscofranco/android-tuna-omap/src/388ae9aa9b26/sound/usb/Makefile
   
   
   
  "The newer versions of ALSA (the Advanced Linux Sound Architecture) enable software mixing by default. All sounds which are played are converted to 48kHz (by default) and mixed in software.
  There are a number of solutions to this problem."
  http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=47591
   
  "Bit Perfect Audio
  You need to be aware that ALSA by default will upsample all of your audio to 48 kHz. This keeps it compatible with TV broadcasts as well as Dolby Digital and DTS surround on DVDs. ALSA typically takes the sound from your content, routes it through a module called "plug" where this resampling takes place, and then routes it to a module called "dmix", a software mixer, before it outputs it to your SPDIF/iec958 connector.
  For Die hard Audiophiles, this resampling is a real source of irritation as CD audio is made using PCM at 44.1 kHz. The upsampling in ALSA is unfortunately very low quality, and if you have a half decent amplifier and speakers, you will notice that CD playback has a congested compressed sound to it. This is very easy to overcome"
  http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Bit_Perfect_Digital_Audio_Playback#Bit_Perfect_Audio
   
   
   
  Enable USB audio on the Linux powered Squeezebox Touch interworking with asynchronous USB DAC:
  http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/news-blog-and-showcase/john-darkos-blog/item/150-how-to-enable-usb-audio-output-on-the-squeezebox-touch
   
  "UAC 2 support
  Based on Mark's feedback [using an async ARCAM DAC] I've updated the Usb Audio Output applet to version 0.6. This should now support detection and selection of dacs wanting 32bit samples. This is working for Mark with kernel #4 to support uac 2 dacs."
  http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?93310-Async-USB-Dac-Experiments-testers-wanted&p=696152&viewfull=1#post696152


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## JamesFiiO

One thing should be considered is that 96/24 or 192/24 music file is too big so it may become useless in Android Phone, also it will limited the battery life of both phone and the DAC, not to talk about the cost. 
   
  I think that the portable dac/amp designed for Android phone should be cheaper than the phone, almost the same battery life as the phone, and almost the same size as most Android phones. and noticeable 
   
  sound improvement.


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## duyu

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> One thing should be considered is that 96/24 or 192/24 music file is too big so it may become useless in Android Phone, also it will limited the battery life of both phone and the DAC, not to talk about the cost.
> 
> I think that the portable dac/amp designed for Android phone should be cheaper than the phone, almost the same battery life as the phone, and almost the same size as most Android phones. and noticeable
> 
> sound improvement.


 
   
  That's my thought.
   
  As a consumer, I would prefer there is a converter/ dock / cable which is capable to connect Android Phones with digital output to the E17.
   
  I don't want a dac which is tied up with Android.


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## Kojaku

My Touchpad cannot host the E17 on CM7 or CM9. According to the terminal, it has too much power draw. The touchpad is KNOWN to have USB host capability, even having custom kernels of WebOS that supposedly have USB audio, which I have not been able to use...because the E17 draws too much power. This is not cool...I bought the E17 hoping I could output to it with my android devices...I might as well have kept my E10.
   
  Kojaku


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## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> My Touchpad cannot host the E17 on CM7 or CM9. According to the terminal, it has too much power draw. The touchpad is KNOWN to have USB host capability, even having custom kernels of WebOS that supposedly have USB audio, which I have not been able to use...because the E17 draws too much power. This is not cool...I bought the E17 hoping I could output to it with my android devices...I might as well have kept my E10.
> 
> Kojaku


 
   
  Yes, It also depend on the the power, some USB HOST can support a extra portable hard disk, some can only support U disk. I use Android phone too, and I know even E17 can support Android phone, the power will be a big problem because
   
  none will love to charge the phone so frequency, that is why we try to develop a special DAC with power output so the phone can be charged at the same time when using the DAC to play music.


----------



## DanBa

How about using it with a (slim) battery-powered USB hub?


----------



## john65537

Instead of waiting for Android's USB/DAC support, WiFi audio streaming maybe a good solution for Android.
http://danbeahm.blogspot.com/2012/02/best-wifi-streaming-music-setup.html


----------



## Kojaku

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Yes, It also depend on the the power, some USB HOST can support a extra portable hard disk, some can only support U disk. I use Android phone too, and I know even E17 can support Android phone, the power will be a big problem because
> 
> none will love to charge the phone so frequency, that is why we try to develop a special DAC with power output so the phone can be charged at the same time when using the DAC to play music.


 
   
   
  which android phone do you use?
   
  Kojaku


----------



## DanBa

USB audio is enabled on Texas Instruments Blaze tablet, which is targeted at developers.
  http://omappedia.org/wiki/USB_on_Blaze_Tablet_with_ICS
  http://www.svtronics.com/products/5-blaze-tablet-1-development-platform
   
  "The two HS USB ports are the standard High Speed Host ports and are used for connecting devices like Mouse, Keyboard, USB stick, Camera, USB audio Headset/speakers etc. Also, many customers use the EHCI interface for Modem Connection. If you connect a camera to this port, you can browse the pics on the SD card in camera in the gallery using the PTP daemon in ICS. Also, you can connect USB Headset or speakers and play audio over USB."
   
  "On Blaze if you plug in a USB audio device, all audio will be routed to the device."
  http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/andraudio/2012-April/000614.html
   
   
  The Google issue "Enable USB audio", requesting Google to standardize USB audio on Android smartphones/tablets, is currently ranked 11 of 22,587.
  http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614&sort=-stars&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20Stars
   
  Vote: Click on the star (it appears after signing in)


----------



## Kojaku

danba said:


> USB audio is enabled on Texas Instruments Blaze tablet, which is targeted at developers.
> http://omappedia.org/wiki/USB_on_Blaze_Tablet_with_ICS
> http://www.svtronics.com/products/5-blaze-tablet-1-development-platform
> 
> ...




Yeah...except the part where the tablet costs $2400...

Kojaku


----------



## DanBa

danba said:


> "[64GB + 64GB] #GalaxySIII includes an USB driver named "snd-usb-audio" [ALSA USB audio driver]. Only testing will tell if it means USB DAC are supported out of the box." [Supercurio]
> https://twitter.com/#!/supercurio/status/198218860128780289


 

   
  "The Samsung Galaxy S III: AndroidNZ goes hands-on, brings you our thoughts and exclusive details
  ...and what about those USB audio drivers?
   
  Anyone with a passing familiarity with me will know this was one of the questions I most wanted an answer to. You see Supercurio was able to ascertain that USB audio drivers are present on the S3, only there was no way for him to know whether they work out of the box.
   
  Sadly it seems they do not. 
  To my great disappointment there was no audio output on connecting my FiiO E17 USB DAC and headphone amplifier. I guess we'll just have to keep waiting for some enterprising developer to make use of those orphaned drivers that are just sitting there on the S3..."
  http://www.androidnz.net/2012/05/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-androidnz-goes.html
   
   
  The Google request "Enable USB Audio" has reached the Top 10 of the Google issue rankings.
  http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614&sort=-stars&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20Stars
   
  Vote: Click on the star (it appears after signing in)


----------



## DanBa

Like the overwhelming majority of factory or stock Android devices, with the exception of the Archos G9 tablet and the developer-targeted Texas Instruments Blaze tablet, the factory Linux-powered Logitech Squeezebox Touch does not support USB DACs.
   
  The USB audio is enabled manually on Squeezebox Touch:
  http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/news-blog-and-showcase/john-darkos-blog/item/150-how-to-enable-usb-audio-output-on-the-squeezebox-touch
   
  The latest method uses an applet which allows a custom kernel to be installed and provides menus to select the audio output device.
  This custom kernel can support 24-bit/192KHz USB DACs. It can also support asynchronous USB DACs which sound theoretically better than the legacy adaptive USB DACs.
  http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/news-blog-and-showcase/john-darkos-blog/item/362-enhanced-digital-output-applet-for-squeezebox-touch
  http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94855-Triode-s-USB-24-192-plug-in-sound-quality-impressions
   
   
  The USB audio is enabled on the Ainol Novo 7 Advanced tablet:
  http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/29289-usb-audio-cards-support-drivers-and-libs/
   
  "We just need 3 base things:
  1st: USB Host support in Android kernel.
  2nd. USB audio driver, in kernel, or compiled as a module.
  3rd. Some logic to switch to USB audio card, or back to internal one."
   
   

   
  The Google issue "Enable USB audio", requesting Google to standardize USB audio on Android smartphones/tablets, has reached the Top 9 of the Google issue rankings.
  http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list?cursor=android%3A24614&sort=-stars


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Good news, will buy a Galaxy III to have a try!


 
   
   
  It seems USB audio is enabled on SGS3:
  http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=26757706&postcount=133
   
  "I got my sgs3 a few hours ago and just plugged it into my Topping tp30 USB DAC/pre-amp and it's playing audio through it to my speakers!!!
  I'm definitely using a USB otg cable."
   
  But SGS3 and E17 don't interwork even via a powered USB hub:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/608535/wolfson-dac-confirmed-for-galaxy-s3/240#post_8421371
   
  Another workaround?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Seems not so many head-fi'er are interested in DAC for Android phone? we need more feedback to decide to make a portable DAC for Android phone. I think it is a good solution for portable music.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Seems not so many head-fi'er are interested in DAC for Android phone? we need more feedback to decide to make a portable DAC for Android phone. I think it is a good solution for portable music.


 
   
  I would be very interested..
   
  Or better yet, an E17 alternative that also is a DAP.


----------



## AlexP

I would certainly be interested.
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Seems not so many head-fi'er are interested in DAC for Android phone? we need more feedback to decide to make a portable DAC for Android phone. I think it is a good solution for portable music.


----------



## john65537

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> I would be very interested..
> 
> Or better yet, an E17 alternative that also is a DAP.


 
  Yes,
  I bought a better DAP to solved the problem.


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





> It seems USB audio is enabled on SGS3:
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=26757706&postcount=133
> 
> "I got my sgs3 a few hours ago and just plugged it into my Topping tp30 USB DAC/pre-amp and it's playing audio through it to my speakers!!!
> ...


 
   
   
  Affordable hi-fi rig:
  http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20058833-47.html?tag=txt;title
   
  music stored on SGS3 > SGS3 player > digital audio stream >> USB cable >> USB DAC/amp Topping TP30 >> speakers
   
   





   

   

   

   
   
  Keep lobbying for the Android USB audio standardisation (i.e. USB DAC as a standard USB device, like a USB mass storage device, for Android smartphone/tablet).
  http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614&sort=-stars&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20Stars
   
  Vote: Click on the star (it appears after signing in)


----------



## pekingduck

Count me in, I am interested!!!
   
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Seems not so many head-fi'er are interested in DAC for Android phone? we need more feedback to decide to make a portable DAC for Android phone. I think it is a good solution for portable music.


----------



## DanBa

USB audio is enabled on factory Samsung Galaxy S III connected to a USB sound stick:
  http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=26898236&postcount=177
   
  "I just tested one of those cheap PC usb audio sticks with a c-media chipset and it works fine with the SGS3 too. Here's the dmesg output when I plug it in:
  http://pastebin.com/nHmTRUN6"
   
  <6>[ 1087.974405] c0 usb 2-1: New USB device found, idVendor=0d8c, idProduct=000c
  <6>[ 1087.974547] c0 usb 2-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=1, SerialNumber=0
  <6>[ 1087.974695] c0 usb 2-1: Product: C-Media USB Headphone Set 
   
   
  A list of USB ID's:
  http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids
   
  idVendor: 0d8c  C-Media Electronics, Inc. [noname USB sound stick, ...]
  idProduct: 000c  Audio Adapter"
   
   
  Some USB sound sticks:
  https://sites.google.com/site/bifferboard/Home/usb-sound-cards
  http://www.terratec.net/en/products/Aureon_Dual_USB_9842.html
   
  "The small stick is very contact-friendly: a stereo output to connect to an active speaker system or head set, a microphone input and an optical digital output leave nothing else to be desired. Enjoying music, films and video games in perfect digital sound quality via your AV system."
   
   
  Keep lobbying for the Android USB audio standardisation (i.e. USB DAC as a standard USB device, like a USB mass storage device, for Android smartphone/tablet).
  http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614&sort=-stars&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20Stars
   
  Vote: Click on the star (it appears after signing in)


----------



## JamesFiiO

waiting for my Galaxy III and will report the feedback to you guys when we finish the testing.


----------



## phantompersona

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> waiting for my Galaxy III and will report the feedback to you guys when we finish the testing.


----------



## lugia862

jamesfiio said:


> Seems not so many head-fi'er are interested in DAC for Android phone? we need more feedback to decide to make a portable DAC for Android phone. I think it is a good solution for portable music.



I'm interested as well, count me in!
Waiting for support on my Galaxy Nexus though..


----------



## DanBa

USB audio is also enabled on factory Samsung Galaxy S III connected to a USB DAC/amp FiiO E7:
  http://www.androidnz.net/2012/06/galaxy-s-iii-usb-audio-is-it-really.html
   
   
  Keep lobbying for the Android USB audio standardisation (i.e. USB DAC as a standard USB device, like a USB mass storage device, for Android smartphone/tablet).
  http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614&sort=-stars&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20Stars
   
  Vote: Click on the star (it appears after signing in)


----------



## Anathallo

Is that the quad-core international or dual-core north american Galaxy S3?  Would there be a difference in the kernel?


----------



## DanBa

It's a quad-core SGS3.
   
  The quad-core SGS3 and the dual-core SGS3 should have the same USB chip.
  If it is very likely the case, USB audio should be also enabled on dual-core SGS3, because ALSA USB audio stack is a software stuff.


----------



## WiR3D

jamesfiio said:


> We may develop a new portable DAC for all Android phone , some different with our E17/E7,
> 
> 1, the power is total powered by build in battery, we may consider to provide extra battery to the phone too. maybe we can put a 3000mAh battery inside the DAC, lol.
> 
> ...




This will work nicely, even if it does not take off immediately, it could gain speed quickly. The extra battery alone is a brilliant idea. And what I think you should do is (unlike the go-dap 4) don't fix the form factor, leave it slim, but open up a design for a cover/jacket that can wrap over the phone and the dac/amp that way other manufacturers can make custom designs for different phones. And you just charge a licence fee. So the option is there if people want it. 

Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## NZtechfreak

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> We may develop a new portable DAC for all Android phone , some different with our E17/E7,
> 
> 1, the power is total powered by build in battery, we may consider to provide extra battery to the phone too. maybe we can put a 3000mAh battery inside the DAC, lol.
> 
> ...


 
   
  This would be awesome! 
   
  BTW, your E7 IS working with the S III, just tested it tonight when it arrived (after my E17 didn't work, even when connected to an external power supply).
   
  A solution like the one above, basically with an extended battery/portable charger, would be an awesome solution for a phone-specific solution (good enough that you'd prise even more money from me if it sounded better than the E7!).


----------



## NZtechfreak

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> This will work nicely, even if it does not take off immediately, it could gain speed quickly. The extra battery alone is a brilliant idea. And what I think you should do is (unlike the go-dap 4) don't fix the form factor, leave it slim, but open up a design for a cover/jacket that can wrap over the phone and the dac/amp that way other manufacturers can make custom designs for different phones. And you just charge a licence fee. So the option is there if people want it.
> Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk 2


 
   
  I like your thinking too...


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





nztechfreak said:


> I like your thinking too...


 
  I posted the idea in another thread and AnakChan said he thought of it too, and spoke to some of the Venturecraft guys about it, buy they pretty much just said no.
   
  I really think it would be awesum, then you would not need rubber bands or anything, you could get a awesum looking cover that will protect your phone and the device with whatever design on that you like most. And aren't the Japanese and Chinese (not being racist or ignorant) crazy about customization anyway?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> This will work nicely, even if it does not take off immediately, it could gain speed quickly. The extra battery alone is a brilliant idea. And what I think you should do is (unlike the go-dap 4) don't fix the form factor, leave it slim, but open up a design for a cover/jacket that can wrap over the phone and the dac/amp that way other manufacturers can make custom designs for different phones. And you just charge a licence fee. So the option is there if people want it.
> Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk 2


 
   
  I think there will have very few small company/diy house like to develop a extra portable DAC for Andriod phone, the market is too narrow .


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> I think there will have very few small company/diy house like to develop a extra portable DAC for Andriod phone, the market is too narrow .


 
  no not the dac, the JACKET! Like this but one for the phone and the device. They are reasonable cheap to make, no?


----------



## NZtechfreak

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> I think there will have very few small company/diy house like to develop a extra portable DAC for Andriod phone, the market is too narrow .


 
   
  While I have your attention, I don't suppose a firmware upgrade for the E17 could fix operability with the S III?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





nztechfreak said:


> While I have your attention, I don't suppose a firmware upgrade for the E17 could fix operability with the S III?


 
   
  Not, not like a smartdevice, the features of ALPEN/DAC is decided by hardware but not firmware. the problem maybe the power supply. will see what happen when we get a S III.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> no not the dac, the JACKET! Like this but one for the phone and the device. They are reasonable cheap to make, no?


 
   
  I see, yes, it is cheap when the quantity is huge. the question is there are so many kinds of Android Phone can only few list to buy a DAC to pair with it. anyway, we will see how can we solve the problem if someone like to bundle a DAC with their 
   
  phone. sometimes I think magnet is a good option , but it may damage the BANK CARD or other ID card.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> I see, yes, it is cheap when the quantity is huge. the question is there are so many kinds of Android Phone can only few list to buy a DAC to pair with it. anyway, we will see how can we solve the problem if someone like to bundle a DAC with their
> 
> phone. sometimes I think magnet is a good option , but it may damage the BANK CARD or other ID card.


 
  Well then I would focus on phones that you have proof it works on? 
   
  I think I should make a proper list here of phones and roms/kernels that support it. It would certainly help you out.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Well then I would focus on phones that you have proof it works on?
> 
> I think I should make a proper list here of phones and roms/kernels that support it. It would certainly help you out.


 
   
  Thanks, that is why we want to do too. I guess some Android phone, like GALAXY note, will support usd audio output when it upgrade to Android 4.0 system because it support USB OTG which means it already includes the necessary hardware .


----------



## Hephaestus123

There's also this cable on amazon for micro usb to mini usb.  http://www.amazon.com/Wilson-Electronics-Micro-Charging-Adapter/dp/B003NQ0QES/ref=sr_1_2?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1339101294&sr=1-2


----------



## NZtechfreak

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Not, not like a smartdevice, the features of ALPEN/DAC is decided by hardware but not firmware. the problem maybe the power supply. will see what happen when we get a S III.


 
   
  I tried with an externally powered hub too, still no go.


----------



## lugia862

Good news! Reporting back from a Galaxy Nexus (CM9|Glados 1.34)....

  
  Using the UsbAudioTestRoot app, it has been successfully opened routing of microphone input to output at MX1 (I got it working at 44.1 and 48KHz at least, the interface is apparently originally designed for tablets so it didn't work out nicely)
  Now we'll just have to have our fingers crossed for audio routing... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  And which I think most USB DACs with adaptive transfer protocol should work at this point (For the reported PCM270X at SIII and TE7022L receiver in my test)
  With all that possibilities, it shouldn't be long for USB DACs to be fully utilized on USB OTG enabled android devices.... and I'll be eager to see more and have the possibilities to test DACs designed for android devices soon!


----------



## john65537

The App's Description says:
  Simple app that checks whether the android device can recognize and use a USB sound card. Basic functionality like audio playback, recording and looping available.
 Your device needs to be rooted for this application to work.
  
  Which root modification is needed for this USB/DAC setup? CM9?


----------



## lugia862

Quote: 





john65537 said:


> The App's Description says:
> Simple app that checks whether the android device can recognize and use a USB sound card. Basic functionality like audio playback, recording and looping available.
> Your device needs to be rooted for this application to work.
> 
> Which root modification is needed for this USB/DAC setup? CM9?


 
   


 I'm currently using CM9 with Glados 1.34 kernel


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





nztechfreak said:


> This would be awesome!
> 
> BTW, your E7 IS working with the S III, just tested it tonight when it arrived.


 
   
   
  music stored on Samsung Galaxy S III > Samsung Galaxy S III player > digital audio stream >> USB OTG cable >> USB DAC/amp FiiO E7 >> headphones
   
   
  Samsung Galaxy S III triggers a new era of high dimensions music for the masses with affordable rig:
   
  . affordable (subsidized) smartphone
   
  . affordable common USB DAC/amp compliant with PC or Mac, like FiiO E7 (us$80)
  http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier-Black/dp/B003N0XDT4/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1339194973&sr=8-4]http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-Portable-Headph...39194973&sr=8-4
  "Clearly, the E7 is priced very competitively, and I consider it a good product — not some cheap Chinese stuff. Not only is the E7 packed with features, it also comes with a solid build quality, and a solid sound quality as well."
  http://www.headfonia.com/fiio-e7-portable-dac/
   
  . affordable headphones, like Digitech Pro Monitor Headphones (us$50), clone of Fischer Audio FA-003, Brainwavz HM5 or Lindy Premium Hi-Fi headphones
  http://www.jaycar.us/productView.asp?ID=AA2065
  "Now that I've had these for a good month I can honestly say they are my 'New' daily headphones! 
  I simple love the music that comes from these headphones.
  They are beautifully balanced with sparkly highs that are not offensive to the ears, mid's that introduces a 'fun' factor to the music for all genres and lastly lows that are firm, bassy and goes amazingly deep with out distorting or overpowering the rest of the music. 
  The clarity is excellent with a very nice sound stage and for a 'closed' headphone they do sound quite open and spacious!
  Isolation is fantastic especially listening to music or playing games at night.
  Comfort is excellent and the 'killer' clamp grip slowly eases after regular use! I've listened to these all night and in to the early morning without wanting to take them off!" 
  http://www.head-fi.org/products/digitech-pro-monitor-headphones/reviews/6900
   

   
   Keep lobbying for the Android USB audio standardisation (i.e.USB DAC as a standard USB device, like a USB mass storage device, for Android smartphone/tablet).
  http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614&sort=-stars&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20Stars
   
  Vote: Click on the star (it appears after signing in)


----------



## DanBa

Samsung Galaxy S III interworks with AMB Labs Gamma2 without external power:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=27247705&postcount=279
   
  music stored on SGS3 > SGS3 player > digital audio stream >> USB OTG cable >> USB DAC AMB Labs Gamma2 >> amp >> headphone


----------



## DanBa

List of USB DACs interworking with Samsung Galaxy S III for the time being:
  . AMB Labs Gamma2 with USB controller TI Burr-Brown TI PCM2707
  . FiiO E7 with USB controller TI Burr-Brown TI PCM2706
  . Topping TP30 with USB controller TI Burr-Brown TI PCM2704
   
   
  List of USB DACs non-interworking with Samsung Galaxy S III for the time being:
  . FiiO E17 with USB controller Tenor TE7022
  . iBasso D6 with USB controller TI TAS1020B
  . Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 with USB controller Tenor TE7022
   
   
  The USB DAC Hegel HD20 with USB controller Tenor TE7022 has also some issue with Linux-powered PC:
  "I try to connect the HD20 to a computer using Linux Ubuntu. Installation seems fine but there is no sound?
  On computers using the Linux Ubuntu operatating system you need to go to settings and choose which soundcard you want to use: the internal or the HD20 TE7022."
http://www.hegel.com/hd20_qa.htm      
   
  The USB DAC Audiotrak Prodigy Cube with USB controller Tenor TE7022 has also some issue with Linux-powered PC:
  "PRODIGY CUBE supports Microsoft Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7 and Mac OS X.
  PRODIGY CUBE is not fully compatible with Linux, but it has been confirmed that the TE7022L chipset support.
  The TE7022L chipset is TENOR's USB controller Chipset.
  Please understand that we are not able to support your request for Linux because there are a wide variety of choices in Linux version and range."
http://www.audiotrack.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37
   
   
  USB DACs with USB controller Tenor TE7022 work perfectly with some Linux setup:
http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Vendor-ESI
   
   
  What is going on at the Android Linux kernel level, when USB DACs with USB controller Tenor TE7022 don’t interwork with Samsung Galaxy S III?
   
  Dmesg log output and lsusb log output could detail what is going on.
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.alsa.devel/96433
   
  dmesg:
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=dmesg
   
  lsusb:
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=lsusb


----------



## DanBa

Samsung Galaxy S III interworks with HifiMan Express via a powered USB hub:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=27284184&postcount=291
   
  music stored on SGS3 > SGS3 player > digital audio stream >> USB OTG cable >> powered USB hub >> USB DAC HifiMan Express >> amp >> headphone
   
   
  The USB DAC HifiMan Express has a USB controller TI *Burr-Brown PCM270*2.
  May be, every USB DAC with USB controller Burr-Brown PCM270X should interwork with the SGS3.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





danba said:


> Samsung Galaxy S III interworks with HifiMan Express via a powered USB hub:
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=27284184&postcount=291
> 
> music stored on SGS3 > SGS3 player > digital audio stream >> USB OTG cable >> powered USB hub >> USB DAC HifiMan Express >> amp >> headphone
> ...


 
  wow a big thanks on behalf of everyone


----------



## DanBa

SGS3 - FiiO E17 Full-Speed / High-Speed switching issue?
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs-how-to-increase-the-issues-priority-with-google/60#post_8460683
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/614111/finally-digital-out-for-galaxy-siii#post_8463192


----------



## DanBa

My theory of  SGS3 Full-Speed / High-Speed switching issue is wrong. 
  The SGS3 interworks with the USB DAC "ODAC" using the USB controller Tenor TE7022.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs-how-to-increase-the-issues-priority-with-google/60#post_8468969


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





danba said:


> My theory of  SGS3 Full-Speed / High-Speed switching issue is wrong.
> The SGS3 interworks with the USB DAC "ODAC" using the USB controller Tenor TE7022.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs-how-to-increase-the-issues-priority-with-google/60#post_8468969


 
  Didnt feiao say it the E17 didn't work because of a possible lack of power?


----------



## DanBa

I remember he said that.
  But NZtechfreak has unsuccessfully tested the E17 with the SGS3 via a powered USB hub.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





danba said:


> I remember he said that.
> But NZtechfreak has unsuccessfully tested the E17 with the SGS3 via a powered USB hub.


 
  i would wait till the first batch of official updates are rolled out, it could be a bug


----------



## kiteki

Interesting news.  Will this work on the Sony Xperia S / Arc HD / LT26i?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> Interesting news.  Will this work on the Sony Xperia S / Arc HD / LT26i?


 
  You will haveto check USB host support, with Cyanogenmod it may very well, but don't know about stock kernel


----------



## kiteki

How do check dat


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> How do check dat


 
  You can do a check of the current phone and ROM by downloading USB Audio Tester But it needs a rooted phone.
   
  Otherwise your going to haveto check with the manufacturer for the stock ROM. 
   
  But for custom roms like Cyanogenmod which does support USB audio and USB host, you will haveto check with the guy who put together the final ROM, its part of the kernel whether or not they implemented what is needed. SO basically:
   
  Find out the ROM -> Find out the Kernel used in the ROM -> Find out if that kernel supports USB Host and USB audio (ALSA drivers)
   
  for that you will haveto do a fair amount of digging.
   
  My HTC HD2 modded running Cyanogenmod has more special requirements then most devices, it has the OS level support, and they have just got the HW level support but it has not yet filtered through into my particular ROM.


----------



## WiR3D

@Kiteki
   
  for instance:
   
  My ROM: Typhoon Cyanogenmod 7.2(android 2.3.7)
  and it states it uses the tytung r14 kernel
  so...
   
  My Kernel: tytung R14
  and it states it uses ALSA sound drivers, which support USB audio. 
  Cyanogenmod Natively supports USB host. SO for most devices this would be it. End of story.
   
   
   
  On my phone since its natively WinMo 6.0 things are different. It needs more hardware support.
  and they have got USB Host working: here and has been said to work on Gingerbread, but it breaks ADB, which is not an option for me, so I have all the ingredients, but the cake is not finished baking.


----------



## kiteki

Sorry I'm not good at smartphones, I don't know where to look for that info, I'll just... buy the Colorfly CK4 instead lol. =p


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> Sorry I'm not good at smartphones, I don't know where to look for that info, I'll just... buy the Colorfly CK4 instead lol. =p


 
  XDA-Developers generally.
   
  Lol yeah do that  or wait until its standardized.


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> i would wait till the first batch of official updates are rolled out, it could be a bug


 
   
  It seems that the SGS3 - FiiO E10 non-interworking cause is due to a buggy descriptor:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs-how-to-increase-the-issues-priority-with-google/75#post_8469751


----------



## PerfectioS

I have a galaxy s, galaxy note, galaxy s2, galaxy s3 , htc sensation , htc one x running on android 4.0. Would assist in testing if needed.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





perfectios said:


> I have a galaxy s, galaxy note, galaxy s2, galaxy s3 , htc sensation , htc one x running on android 4.0. Would assist in testing if needed.


 
  then do  pair it with any driverless USB dac. and post the results. And mention ROMS/Kernels if you did flash new ROMS.


----------



## qusp

wow, I thought it was hard getting iphone to output digital lol. I havent checked this thread for ages and things dont seem to have changed at all. I use an iphone and would continue to for phonecalls, but would buy a GSII or other device used just to use as a transport for my portable dac. I can build the usb receiver->i2s convceror into a little module for my dac and give it its own power, but wont bother till its stable on something and that doesnt seem to be happening any time soon.
   
  happy to be corrected there...


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





qusp said:


> wow, I thought it was hard getting iphone to output digital lol. I havent checked this thread for ages and things dont seem to have changed at all. I use an iphone and would continue to for phonecalls, but would buy a GSII or other device used just to use as a transport for my portable dac. I can build the usb receiver->i2s convceror into a little module for my dac and give it its own power, but wont bother till its stable on something and that doesnt seem to be happening any time soon.
> 
> happy to be corrected there...


 
   
  Can you build something for USB on the go devices that require self powered DACs?  I'd like to use my Nokia w/ the ODAC or other non powered USB devices when I want to step up from my Leckerton's DAC.


----------



## qusp

yes I could, but i'm not interested in developing it for sale, nor installing it for others. if I get around to it myself when OTG sorts it self out more, I might post something in the diy area, but I have enough on my plate as it is and i'm actually pretty keen on keeping my diy audio electronics tinkering a hobby.
   
  sorry


----------



## qusp

it would be pretty basic, as i have no inclination to deal with the NDAs and MOQs required by some of the newer driverless receivers. it would use a simple 'good' old PCM270X receiver usb->i2s convertor. so actually no, not for your ODAC as he did go with the NDA to get hires. I would not care so much and using a sabre it can sound pretty decent even with less than excellent i2s quality. I will probably also go for USB isolation.
   
  ahh actually maybe you could with the ODAC, but it would probably involve disabling the stock usb input and feeding the dac chip directly with i2s


----------



## kiteki

Why do you make these things sound so complicated, all he has to do is connect the ODAC to the S II with a USB cable, thereby bypassing the internal Yamaha DAC in the Samsung phone.


----------



## qusp

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> Why do you make these things sound so complicated, all he has to do is connect the ODAC to the S II with a USB cable, thereby bypassing the internal Yamaha DAC in the Samsung phone.


 

 maybe, maybe not. one device needs to be able to act as USB host and needs to be setup to tell the phone that it has its own power.. or have a receiver that falls within the current limits set by his particular USB accessory power current limit on the phone.
   
  I dont know if the ODAC will allow that or not. I presume hes tried that. … otherwise why is he asking? I made the assumption that hed tried that and it hadnt worked. hes already got USB working with his phone afaik and has an ODAC?
   
  AFAIK the ODAC is USB powered and USB powered only, meaning his phone needs to be able to power the ODAC, do you see the problem here? so at a minimum he will have to have a powered hub, thats if it will work at all.
   
  a USB connection is not just a USB connection kiteki, the devices need to be able to negotiate the connection and negotiate where from and how much power is needed.
   
  my suggestion was simply bypassing the USB reciever in the ODAC so a simpler low power one could be used, I doubt it would work though, it will still need clock power etc as the ODAC cannot power itself.
   
  I guess the easiest way apart from plugging it in, is to check the ODAC datasheet to see how much current it needs and then compare that to how much current the phone will provide before it denies the device. if its too high, you will need a powered hub.


----------



## qusp

OK I checked, the ODAC needs minimum 125ma from the USB host, so its as I thought, other Tenor devices using the same chip dont all work with Android either; but for some reason ODAC does work, at least on the GSIII, despite being above the 100ma current limit. I cant imagine it would work very long, so you will need a powered hub to power one or both devices. I would expect the phone would get a bit hot too without the hub and may shorten its life.
   
  this seems kind of against the point of having such a rig doesnt it? at that point when you are carrying an android phone, a powered hub and a dac and an amp wouldnt you just be better off using a small netbook or laptop plus a decent USB dac/amp?
   
  i'm not making it needlessly complicated, it IS complicated; the companies have made this type of activity low priority, they do not consider it a priority to be able to power high current devices over USB, they have a certain power budget and they have current limits in the battery and in the regulators used to output voltage from their USB ports. They also need to be able to claim a certain battery life.
   
  this thread is littered with things that should work but dont, things that shouldnt work but do, things that used to work but dont anymore. … buying a phone so you can use it in such a setup at this stage seems the wrong priority. for starters, the ODAC is adaptive clocked, not USB clocked, I doubt the audio will be in sync with any video, but any delay may or may not be bearable.
   
  its interesting for sure, but i'll hold off for now. for now i'll just keep using my old iriver for digital transport, it works.


----------



## Typhoon859

Quote: 





qusp said:


> OK I checked, the ODAC needs minimum 125ma from the USB host, so its as I thought, other Tenor devices using the same chip dont all work with Android either; but for some reason ODAC does work, at least on the GSIII, despite being above the 100ma current limit. I cant imagine it would work very long, so you will need a powered hub to power one or both devices. I would expect the phone would get a bit hot too without the hub and may shorten its life.
> 
> this seems kind of against the point of having such a rig doesnt it? at that point when you are carrying an android phone, a powered hub and a dac and an amp wouldnt you just be better off using a small netbook or laptop plus a decent USB dac/amp?
> 
> ...


 

 To shorten this whole thing, basically, you're saying the E17 connected to the SG SIII won't work with USB, reason being it doesn't provide enough power through the hub.  Right? 
   
  Does the E7 require less power then?...  And plus, I don't understand why that even matters.  Can't the E17 just use its own battery same as it would connected through optical?  The E17 even has an option in the menu to be powered through USB or not.  Maybe that just needs to be turned off.


----------



## Kojaku

typhoon859 said:


> To shorten this whole thing, basically, you're saying the E17 connected to the SG SIII won't work with USB, reason being it doesn't provide enough power through the hub.  Right?
> 
> Does the E7 require less power then?...  And plus, I don't understand why that even matters.  Can't the E17 just use its own battery same as it would connected through optical?  The E17 even has an option in the menu to be powered through USB or not.  Maybe that just needs to be turned off.




I don't have access to my screenshots, but I had a dmesg log of when I was attempting to make my E17 work with my HP Touchpad, which was already certified to have USB audio support. In the log it stated that the E17 drew more than 150mW even without USB charging on. Thus, the USB OTG hosting protocol couldn't approve mounting the device. I think this has something to do with the fact that the E17 powers its 3 inputs at the same time to make switching between them quicker...

Kojaku


----------



## Seeg

Hey guys! Newhere.. =)
   
  Anyway.. I've got my self in a little mess.. I own a Sony Xperia S and from what I know the 3.5mm jack isn't really the best to plug in an amp to.. So I was thinking, I have a Mini-HDMI jack on it as well and I thought that if you can get an output to the TV with sound from mini-hdmi you can probably buy somekind of adapter with a mini-Hdmi on one side and a 3.5mm on the other to plug in to an amp?

 In my mind that would do the trick but i'm not the best technician and I couldn't find anywhere to buy it from so.. I'd like to know if anyone knows if that's possible?  
   
*My masterplan =  Sony Xperia S>mini-HDMI-3.5mm>Fiio E7>Nice pair of headphones! =D*
 Thanx in advance!


----------



## Typhoon859

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> I don't have access to my screenshots, but I had a dmesg log of when I was attempting to make my E17 work with my HP Touchpad, which was already certified to have USB audio support. In the log it stated that the E17 drew more than 150mW even without USB charging on. Thus, the USB OTG hosting protocol couldn't approve mounting the device. I think this has something to do with the fact that the E17 powers its 3 inputs at the same time to make switching between them quicker...
> Kojaku


 
  You mean with USB charging off?  That's strange...  I mean, with optical, it can't really draw any power so I'm sure the same can be done with USB.  In any case, from the very beginning this seemed to me like something which could be corrected by FiiO with a Firmware upgrade.  It's more and more seeming like so.  I'm not sure what's possible but I hope it is and I hope it's made a priority.  The E17, like the E7, is MADE exactly for this kind of a purpose.  It's the most contemporary device out of most if not any others of this nature and I think it should work with this new increased use/functionality of USB OTG. 
   
  Quote: 





seeg said:


> Hey guys! Newhere.. =)
> 
> Anyway.. I've got my self in a little mess.. I own a Sony Xperia S and from what I know the 3.5mm jack isn't really the best to plug in an amp to.. So I was thinking, I have a Mini-HDMI jack on it as well and I thought that if you can get an output to the TV with sound from mini-hdmi you can probably buy somekind of adapter with a mini-Hdmi on one side and a 3.5mm on the other to plug in to an amp?
> 
> ...


 
   
  You would try to find the slimmest most simplest adapter that would convert the audio from HDMI to Optical and connect the DAC/Amp by those means. Otherwise, if the device has a line-out option, depending on how that functions on it, you can get the required adapter and IN FACT connect it through 3.5mm and that would be fine. For that you should get the FiiO E11 then. I'm not sure if the E7 supports an optical connection (or S/PDIF it might say) but I know for fact the E17 does. The E17 is much better quality in any case.
   
   
  EDIT: There is no cheap/simple HDMI to Optical converter and they all need to be powered.  This wouldn't make sense as a portable rig regardless >.<  The same thing applies for your master plan, even more so.  Converting Digital (HDMI) to Analog (3.5mm) needs to be powered.  This is what the Sony is doing anyway and that's what your 3.5mm output is.  The point of HDMI is high resolution audio and video which has nothing to do with your needs.  Without USB or a native optical/coax output, your best bet is the line-out option.  Basically, that bypasses the device's amplifier and sends the converted digital to analog signal straight to your external amplifier (like the mentioned E11).
   
  PS- These are the only two things I could find: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/1080p-4-port-hdmi-input-to-hdmi-optical-coaxial-audio-output-converter-100-240v-ac-16553?r=96035782 and http://www.amazon.com/SPDIF-Component-Ypbpr-Converter-v1-3b/dp/B002SFT3ZI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


----------



## Seeg

Thanx mate! well well.. That sucks.. But I guess my iPod classic could do the job too! 

 The only thing that really really really sucks is that Sony ****ed up the 3.5mm jack on my phone.. It's not like the standard ctia 3.5mm that's in most headphones and cables.. Instead they changed the "soundbands" on the plugs. I find it difficult to describe this..  so read this link for a better explanation .

 Anyway my real master(portableRig)plan is like this = iPod Classic 5g 120Gb>Homemade LOD>Fiio E7>Flat 3.5mm from griffin>WeSC chambers by RzA 
 .


----------



## Typhoon859

Quote: 





seeg said:


> Thanx mate! well well.. That sucks.. But I guess my iPod classic could do the job too!
> 
> The only thing that really really really sucks is that Sony ****ed up the 3.5mm jack on my phone.. It's not like the standard ctia 3.5mm that's in most headphones and cables.. Instead they changed the "soundbands" on the plugs. I find it difficult to describe this..  so read this link for a better explanation .
> 
> ...


 
  I see..  Well, for this, unless you already have the E7, I still recommend the E11.  And just FYI, iPods have a better headphone output but the iTouch and iPhone have better DAC chips which equals better quality for line-out. 
   
  Good luck!  Most importantly, enjoy your setup!


----------



## qusp

Quote: 





typhoon859 said:


> To shorten this whole thing, basically, you're saying the E17 connected to the SG SIII won't work with USB, reason being it doesn't provide enough power through the hub.  Right?
> 
> Does the E7 require less power then?...  And plus, I don't understand why that even matters.  Can't the E17 just use its own battery same as it would connected through optical?  The E17 even has an option in the menu to be powered through USB or not.  Maybe that just needs to be turned off.


 

 no, thats not what i'm saying, you really need to do some reading on USB and how it works. All USB devices can either be set to host, or slave. the GSIII is unlikely to be able to be set as slave so we'll just talk about host.
   
  for the GSIII and others to work with something that exceeds the current limit, but has its own power source, there are 3 options.
   
  1. the device tells the GSIII that it has its own power when they are connected, during the signalling used to negotiate device type, speed of connection etc. it does this with a series of logic level signals on the power line. this logic signal may or may not be hardwired and thus not available as a software update
   
  2. you supply power via an external powered hub.
   
  3. you fluke it, the device works anyway despite exceeding the limit, perhaps because during start up it isnt exceeding the power limit, or it lies to the host. this connection may be 'fixed' in an update at any time if problems arise; or the device exceeds the power limit by whatever tolerance is allowed for an extensive length of time and is found out. the phone refuses the connection.
   
  but I only mentioned the FIIO in passing, if at all, because its listed in Kojaku's screen shot posted a few pages back (at least I think it was his) and this confirmed my thoughts as to why some were working and some were not (the 100 mA not 100 mW power limit), for EXACTLY the same reasons that devices work with ipad or not.  this is part of the USB protocol, these connections and their power budget need to be negotiated and all things need to be in place for it to work, otherwise connecting your phone to a high power device could overheat or even kill your phone, or at the very least run the battery down in no time.


----------



## wawahwa

Hi,
   
  I am able to make s2 recognize FIIO e7 as USB audio but I can't redirect the audio stream to the DAC. Does anyone have the cue how I can make it happen?
   
  I just flashed CM9/ASOP and then flashed SiyahKernel again. After connect e7 and s2 with OTG, s2 recognize the e7 and e7 also recognize s2 also.
   
  Hope this information can help.


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





wawahwa said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am able to make s2 recognize FIIO e7 as USB audio but I can't redirect the audio stream to the DAC. Does anyone have the cue how I can make it happen?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thats a good news...Can you try fiddling with Dock Settings? It says 'Audio Output Mode - Use External speakers when device is docked' and I guess S2 will identify 'docked' status when any usb audio is connected to the port
   
  Please let me know if you get through...


----------



## wawahwa

I have tried but no lucky to have the audio out via dac.


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





wawahwa said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am able to make s2 recognize FIIO e7 as USB audio but I can't redirect the audio stream to the DAC. Does anyone have the cue how I can make it happen?
> 
> ...


 
   
  "We just need 3 base things:
  1st: USB Host support in Android kernel.
  2nd. USB audio driver, in kernel, or compiled as a module.
_3rd. Some logic to switch to USB audio card, or back to internal one." _
  http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/29289-usb-audio-cards-support-drivers-and-libs/page__view__findpost__p__324675
   
  "In ICS, I've done it this way, with audio library and tinyalsa library." [tsynik]
  http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/29289-usb-audio-cards-support-drivers-and-libs/page__view__findpost__p__381301
   
  https://github.com/tsynik/device_allwinner_novo7a/tree/master/libaudio
  https://github.com/tinyalsa/tinyalsa/blob/master/README
   
  The developer should do that.


----------



## wawahwa

libaudio.so  is not exist in S2.


----------



## Typhoon859

qusp said:


> no, thats not what i'm saying, you really need to do some reading on USB and how it works. All USB devices can either be set to host, or slave. the GSIII is unlikely to be able to be set as slave so we'll just talk about host.
> 
> for the GSIII and others to work with something that exceeds the current limit, but has its own power source, there are 3 options.
> 
> ...




Ok, thank you. That's why I was asking, not stating. I didn't understand to the full extent that you did so I tried to see how I did. I don't need to do anything. I understand it well enough for my purposes. The thing about how you state things is just that it constantly sounds hypothetical and too involved for no reason. I can't comment on how accurate what you're saying is but it just sounds like you're blabbering information. That's how it is on the receiving end anyway. But sorry, that's besides the point and just my opinion based on my position relative to your thoughts. 

In any case, I'd still like to hear if you can definitively answer or not, since you know this in and out, whether there is a legitimate way for the E17 to naturally work with the SIII or any other future phones of a similar design.


----------



## kiteki

qusp said:


> this seems kind of against the point of having such a rig doesnt it? at that point when you are carrying an android phone, a powered hub and a dac and an amp wouldnt you just be better off using a small netbook or laptop plus a decent USB dac/amp?


 
   
  Definitely agree there. =)
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/607975/epiphany-acoustics-e-dac-jdslabs-odac-head-n-hifi-odac-discussion/30#post_8365240
   






+ 


   
   
  I don't follow the recent fashion with smartphones and tablets, they're all just huge touchscreens with a very weak laptop inside.  10 years ago mobile phones looked different and had more creative designs, they were more cool and unique.


----------



## DanBa

According to this post, the SQ of the ODAC, a bus-powered USB DAC, is better using an external linear power supply:
   
  "I just added an external linear power supply to the ODAC and the performance improvement is immediate. No longer sounds strained and now the soundstage is nice and wide (I am using speakers not headphones). Overall 'clinical' quality is still there but certainly could be due to other factors. So power is definitely a factor in my case."
  "I used this usb extension." [5V power injector for USB cable]


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> Definitely agree there. =)
> 
> I don't follow the recent fashion with smartphones and tablets, they're all just huge touchscreens with a very weak laptop inside.  10 years ago mobile phones looked different and had more creative designs, they were more cool and unique.


 
   
  The problem w/ using a laptop/netbook is you're still carry your phone around don't you?  So if you use a brick amp and a brick DAC plus phone = 3 devices.  Adding a notebook is 4.  Tell you what, build me a phone that's as good sounding as my brick amp, brick DAC and that's as powerful as my Thinkpad and I'll be your first customer.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I can always use the integrated DAC in my Leckerton UHA6S w/ my Nokia and kill every smartphone out there but I'm looking for more obviously by trying to bridge the gap with my desktop rig.


----------



## kiteki

So... 5V USB versus 5V external = "now the soundstage is nice and wide", hmm...


----------



## kiteki

anaxilus said:


> )
> 
> Tell you what, build me a phone that's as good sounding as my brick amp, brick DAC and that's as powerful as my Thinkpad and I'll be your first customer.


 
   
  1. Start an interest check / voting thread on how many people want the DX100 to make phone calls, then send an email to iBasso.
   
  2. Glue a Sony Z1070 and Sony Xperia S together.
   
  Just ideas.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> 1. Start an interest check / voting thread on how many people want the DX100 to make phone calls, then send an email to iBasso.
> 
> 2. Glue a Sony Z1070 and Sony Xperia S together.
> 
> Just ideas.


 
  get large case,
  get large phone android phone with CM7 + USB Host + ALSA 
  get ODAC
  shanghai all of it into one case, bypass usb port altogether solder the connections to the inside of the devices USB connection, and add a bypass and small transformer from the internal battery directly to the odac.
   
  DOMINATE. 
   
  wishes and dreams, alice in wonderland style


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> Just ideas.


 
   
  Yeah but I wanted good ones and I said 'as good as' not 'worse' what I have.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  DX100 has enough issues already w/o adding a phone.


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> So... 5V USB versus 5V external = "now the soundstage is nice and wide", hmm...


 
   
  Some stuff:
http://www.aqvox.de/usb-power_en.html


----------



## john65537

Google anounced Nexus Q as Android's media center,
  is also the solution for android's sound quality?


----------



## kiteki

anaxilus said:


> Yeah but I wanted good ones and I said 'as good as' not 'worse' what I have.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Afaik thickness and low battery life seem to be caveats with all the top-flights, Colorfly C4, HM-801, DX100.
   
  Haven't heard the Z1070 but if the Xperia S sound and reviews are any indication it should sound more exciting than a Wolfson chip or Hifiman.
   
  IIRC you used an iPhone before, there is the V-moda VAMP as well.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> Afaik thickness and low battery life seem to be caveats with all the top-flights, Colorfly C4, HM-801, DX100.
> 
> Haven't heard the Z1070 but if the Xperia S sound and reviews are any indication it should sound more exciting than a Wolfson chip or Hifiman.
> 
> IIRC you used an iPhone before, there is the V-moda VAMP as well.


 
  And Hisound Studio V, but that has its own issues.


----------



## DanBa

USB audio output support is added in Android 4.1 Jelly Bean:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs-how-to-increase-the-issues-priority-with-google/90#post_8490416


----------



## john65537

Quote: 





danba said:


> USB audio output support is added in Android 4.1 Jelly Bean:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs-how-to-increase-the-issues-priority-with-google/90#post_8490416


 
   
  Really?
  So my android 2.3.4 tablet may enjoy USB/DAC functionality, all I have to do is reroot it to Jelly Bean.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





john65537 said:


> Really?
> So my android 2.3.4 tablet may enjoy USB/DAC functionality, all I have to do is reroot it to Jelly Bean.


 
  err, well technically its flash, and no not android 2.3.4, android 4.1, and its just released, so a few months first.


----------



## kiteki

> Originally Posted by *WiR3D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> And Hisound Studio V, but that has its own issues.


 
   
  The studio V is essentially a good portable amplifer, with a basic DAC in it, the same as in my Sony gumsticks and the Teclast X19+.
   
  The Colorfly CK4 on the other hand, uses the Cirrus flagship DAC afaik, and a basic amplifier section, the opposite. 
   
  I don't know exactly what the amplifier section of the Studio V is, since it's sanded off to protect intellectual property, I think the DX100 is the same.  Yes, there is always the capacitors, circuit layout, voltage supply, sound synergy etc. too.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Will you still like to buy a portable DAC/AMP for your Android phone, if you have to unplug the DAC and unplug your headphone so you can use the phone?
   
  I am not sure if the Jelly Bean can supports MIC through the USB


----------



## pekingduck

jamesfiio said:


> Will you still like to buy a portable DAC/AMP for your Android phone, if you have to unplug the DAC and unplug your headphone so you can use the phone?
> 
> I am not sure if the Jelly Bean can supports MIC through the USB




I would still buy it!


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote:  
   
  Lol, I don't use Apple devices.  I think you misunderstand, I like my N8>UHA6S more than the DX100 which I find rather hyped tbh.  I'm just moving up to an even better amp eventually and need a better DAC to follow so that's why I was hoping to drive the ODAC using the N8 but the ODAC needs it's own power for USB on the go to work.  Or I need a different and better DAC than the ODAC.  I don't know if the DB2 will cut it as nothing from iBasso has impressed me yet.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Will you still like to buy a portable DAC/AMP for your Android phone, if you have to unplug the DAC and unplug your headphone so you can use the phone?
> 
> I am not sure if the Jelly Bean can supports MIC through the USB


 
   
  That could be a problem for some or many I would think.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Will you still like to buy a portable DAC/AMP for your Android phone, if you have to unplug the DAC and unplug your headphone so you can use the phone?
> 
> I am not sure if the Jelly Bean can supports MIC through the USB


 
  I Don't quite get it, because if I listen to music with headphones plugged in and someone calls, I can still talk using the MIC on the phone. 
   
  I dont get why you wouldnt be able to use the mic on the phone and hear the sound through the dac/amp/speakers/headphone


----------



## DanBa

The USB DAC recommended by Google is a new type of device. It is not compatible with PC or Mac.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs-how-to-increase-the-issues-priority-with-google/90#post_8492288


----------



## gordec

Does Ibasso D-zero work with S3?


----------



## DanBa

An Android 4.1 Jelly Bean-powered device can have both USB audio out modes: standard USB audio out and Android-specific USB audio out.
  These features are at the Android kernel level.
  http://developer.android.com/tools/adk/aoa2.html#audio-support
   
  "Android Open Accessory Protocol 2.0 includes optional support for audio output from an Android device to an accessory. This version of the protocol supports a _standard USB audio class interface_ that is capable of 2 channel 16-bit PCM audio with a bit rate of 44100 Khz. AOA 2.0 is currently limited to this output mode, but additional audio modes may be added in the future.
  To enable the audio support, the accessory must send a _new USB control request_: SET_AUDIO_MODE"
   

   

   

   
  It should be easy to enable standard USB audio out and Android-specific USB audio out on an Android 4.1 Jelly Bean-powered device with USB host capability.
   
  Let's keep up the pressure on Google and the Android device manufacturers for the standard USB audio out:
  http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614&sort=-stars&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20Stars


----------



## kiteki

How about this?  http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/34971-*Sony-Ericsson-Live-With-Walkman-**vs-iBasso-D-Zero*-1-
   
   
http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_live_with_walkman-4111.php + http://www.xperiablog.net/2011/12/14/xperia-play-supports-64gb-microsd-memory-cards/
   
http://www.ibasso.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=73 / http://www.ibasso.com/download/20118171149.pdf


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> How about this?  http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/34971-*Sony-Ericsson-Live-With-Walkman-**vs-iBasso-D-Zero*-1-
> 
> 
> http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_live_with_walkman-4111.php + http://www.xperiablog.net/2011/12/14/xperia-play-supports-64gb-microsd-memory-cards/
> ...


 
  I'm not getting the point... My brother has one
   
  EDIT: O wait I do now. Lol


----------



## proton007

I'm not sure if google will support USB Audio host mode.
  But I think developers should be able to hack it and get it working.


----------



## kiteki

The point is a 1 Ghz processor, 512 MB RAM, Wolfson WM8740 DAC, 64GB memory for music, and an Analog devices op-amp, all in a very compact phone, with 720P video, and a 5MP camera, etc... IF that setup works.


----------



## dw1narso

Kiteki, I don't think usb receiver based on PCM2706 is worthwhile... unless it is buffered and asynchronously clocked before fed into the DAC... I own PCM2706 converter, and it make most of the upstream DACs that I tried sounded bad... maybe except my own Monica2 DAC, which is digitally buffered and asynchronously clocked before going to the DAC chip. (by design, not a choice, TDA1545 on Monica2 use japanese EIAJ format and thus standard I2S must be converted first)


----------



## kiteki

That is useful info, makasih.


----------



## dw1narso

sama-sama... BTW I want to know your impression on FXD80  that leather case is very tempting... but Tenso don't ship to Indonesia...


----------



## kiteki

Lol the FXD80 is overflowing into other threads now haha. ^^


----------



## Kaitodoraemon

what about Samsung Galaxy Player 4.0 and 5.0 which are exclusively for music listening?
   
  Those should enable usb out as well


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by proton007
> 
> I'm not sure if google will support USB Audio host mode.


 
   
  The USB Audio host mode is specified in Android specifications:
  http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/connectivity/usb/index.html
  http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/connectivity/usb/host.html
  http://developer.android.com/reference/android/hardware/usb/UsbConstants.html
  "int USB_CLASS_AUDIO USB class for audio devices."
   

   
  The standard USB audio module is present in the kernel source code of the Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich powered Galaxy Nexus. It is not included in the stock binary kernel of the 4.0 Galaxy Nexus.
  Very likely, the standard USB audio module, including a new control request, is present in the kernel source code of the Android 4.1 Jelly Bean powered Galaxy Nexus; and it is included in the stock binary kernel of the 4.1 Galaxy Nexus.
   
   "Android Open Accessory Protocol 2.0 includes optional support for audio output from an Android device to an accessory. This version of the protocol supports a *standard USB audio class interface* that is capable of 2 channel 16-bit PCM audio with a bit rate of 44100 Khz. AOA 2.0 is currently limited to this output mode, but additional audio modes may be added in the future.
  To enable the audio support, the accessory must send a *new USB control request*: SET_AUDIO_MODE"
  http://developer.android.com/tools/adk/aoa2.html#audio-support
   
  Hence, a 4.1 Android device can support the USB audio host mode and the USB audio client mode.

   
  Quote: 





proton007 said:


> But I think developers should be able to hack it and get it working.


 
   
  Hopefully, Google and Android device manufacturers will enable the USB audio host mode along with the USB audio client mode on their stock 4.1 Android devices. It should be available to everyone, and not only for a few ones hacking their Android device.
   
  One of the ways to let them know that is to vote for the Google issue "Enable (standard) USB audio":
  http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614&sort=-stars&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20Stars
   
  And please ask around.


----------



## dw1narso

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> Lol the FXD80 is overflowing into other threads now haha. ^^


 
   
  he, he... sorry to the thread starter...


----------



## dsan

I was looking for a way to output my Galaxy note with USB audio and came across this forum.
   
  Very exciting news that Jellybean supports USB audio. 
   
  I will have Fiio E17 by monday and install a test Jellybean SDK and see if it will do the magic.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





dsan said:


> I was looking for a way to output my Galaxy note with USB audio and came across this forum.
> 
> Very exciting news that Jellybean supports USB audio.
> 
> I will have Fiio E17 by monday and install a test Jellybean SDK and see if it will do the magic.


 
   
  The SDK is very bare bones Jelly bean. I doubt it includes the audio drivers. You'll need to install a proper jelly bean rom.


----------



## DGriff0400

if it works with jelly bean or the new samsung galaxy players thaa a definite buy for me and win for android/fiio!


----------



## beaver316

I can't believe we still don't have confirmation on whether Jelly Bean works with the Fiio E17. Is there not one person out there who owns either the Nexus 7 or Galaxy Nexus with JB and a Fiio E17?


----------



## DGriff0400

its new.would take a while


----------



## spanky310

I asked this question on anther thread but realize this might be a better place to ask this question.
   
  I have an AT&T Galaxy SIII and I am looking for a portable DAC/AMP unit to use with it.
   
  I read that most DAC's that use TI2706 USB receiver will work with the SIII and I just want to see if anyone here had successfully used the iBasso D-Zero (uses PCM2706) with the SIII.
   
  I am trying to decide whether to buy the Fiio E7 or the iBasso D-Zero.
   
  Thanks


----------



## KimLaroux

Quote: 





spanky310 said:


> I asked this question on anther thread but realize this might be a better place to ask this question.
> 
> I have an AT&T Galaxy SIII and I am looking for a portable DAC/AMP unit to use with it.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Google answered:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/552014/pictures-of-your-portable-rig-part-xv/5535#post_8509186
http://www.head-fi.org/t/552014/pictures-of-your-portable-rig-part-xv/5550#post_8510418


----------



## spanky310

Quote: 





kimlaroux said:


> Google answered:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/552014/pictures-of-your-portable-rig-part-xv/5535#post_8509186
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/552014/pictures-of-your-portable-rig-part-xv/5550#post_8510418


 
  Thanks for the links. I read that thread and it seems that the member you were quoting was using iBasso DAC/Amp but he did not state which particular he was using. Do all iBasso DAC/Amps uses TI pcm2706's thus will work with Galaxy SIII? 
   
  I just want to make sure just in case iBasso uses different USB receivers on their portable line of DAC/Amp like what Fiio.
   
  I have also sent an inquiry to iBasso so let's see what have to say on that.
   
  Thanks again for your help.


----------



## darkclouds

It doesn't work, as far as i can tell.  I tried hooking up my E17 using a usb-otg cable to my Galaxy Nexus running Jelly Bean and it outputs through the external speakers like normal.


----------



## pimpl

So, did I get that right: no usb audio out on Galaxy s2 yet, and probably it'll never be?
  So there is NO was to improve the galays s2's Sundquality?


----------



## dsan

Quote: 





darkclouds said:


> It doesn't work, as far as i can tell.  I tried hooking up my E17 using a usb-otg cable to my Galaxy Nexus running Jelly Bean and it outputs through the external speakers like normal.


 
   
  and this blows my dream away


----------



## JamesFiiO

we already start develop a portable dac for Android phone which is total selfpowered.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> we already start develop a portable dac for Android phone which is total selfpowered.


 
  Good idea, because as I have learn't USB power is dodgey, Look at the ODAC how its performance varies from the bad quality power it gets from PC and Mobile usb ports, and then the 100mW max draw most devices have. 
   
  External is the way to go, and by making different "covers" one device can be used with many different phones, by just changing the cover, or not even using it, vs the VAMP which is locked to the iPhone 4/4S.


----------



## pimpl

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> we already start develop a portable dac for Android phone which is total selfpowered.


 
   
  Any idea when it will be available?


----------



## newdm

Just bought a LG P920 Optimus 3D from a local clearance sale.
  Sadly, the Optimus 3D doesn't seem to support USB-OTG and an official update for Jelly Bean is due the lacking success of the series very unlikely.
   
  Anyhow, is there any chance, that USB-Audio might work someday or is USB OTG absolutely necessary?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





newdm said:


> Just bought a LG P920 Optimus 3D from a local clearance sale.
> Sadly, the Optimus 3D doesn't seem to support USB-OTG and an official update for Jelly Bean is due the lacking success of the series very unlikely.
> 
> Anyhow, is there any chance, that USB-Audio might work someday or is USB OTG absolutely necessary?


 
  Read some more into this thread and you will see you need 3 components:

 ALSA Drivers at kernel level
 USB Host (included OTG)
 and something elese that slipped my mind, I wrote it somewhere in here.
   
look here for custom roms that may support it


----------



## newdm

Thanks for your link, it will be helpful to get some more informations.
  From the specs, it seems that the processor of the Optimus 3D (OMAP4430) supports USB-OTG, but unfortunately the kernel doesn't.


----------



## dsan

Quote: 





newdm said:


> Thanks for your link, it will be helpful to get some more informations.
> From the specs, it seems that the processor of the Optimus 3D (OMAP4430) supports USB-OTG, but unfortunately the kernel doesn't.


 
   
  most current android phones support otg
  Its just kernel not doing the trick. XDA is developing some kernels that allows you to do that. (some phones only)


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





dsan said:


> most current android phones support otg
> Its just kernel not doing the trick. XDA is developing some kernels that allows you to do that. (some phones only)


 
  You will need to ask Kernel devs to implement it, which is easier said then done, XDA-devs are notorious for ignoring requests, simply because they only really post their work there, they don't go there to take requests.


----------



## dsan

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> You will need to ask Kernel devs to implement it, which is easier said then done, XDA-devs are notorious for ignoring requests, simply because they only really post their work there, they don't go there to take requests.


 
  well you dont have to take that negetive
  they are not doing it for any profit. Its just their hard time spent to share with the world.
  If one rom doesnt suit you use the other. 
   
  Plus they can only do things they are capable of. Have you imagined how many requests of 'do this' 'do that' they receive a day?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





dsan said:


> well you dont have to take that negetive
> they are not doing it for any profit. Its just their hard time spent to share with the world.
> If one rom doesnt suit you use the other.
> 
> Plus they can only do things they are capable of. Have you imagined how many requests of 'do this' 'do that' they receive a day?


 
  I'm a developer myself, I'm not being negative, its just a fact, they don't take requests for that very reason.


----------



## newdm

Quote: 





dsan said:


> most current android phones support otg
> Its just kernel not doing the trick. XDA is developing some kernels that allows you to do that. (some phones only)


 
   
  Quote: 





wir3d said:


> You will need to ask Kernel devs to implement it, which is easier said then done, XDA-devs are notorious for ignoring requests, simply because they only really post their work there, they don't go there to take requests.


 
  Thanks for your opinions. For me as a android-newbie, the whole mod-theme is quite complex and not easy to see through.
  But the possibilities are indeed interesting.
   
  At Head-Fi, are there any reports of modded android smartphones that work with a usb-dac?
  (I've read only about the stock Galaxy S3, some tablets and the Nokia N8 with Symbian OS)


----------



## NZtechfreak

Quote: 





newdm said:


> Thanks for your opinions. For me as a android-newbie, the whole mod-theme is quite complex and not easy to see through.
> But the possibilities are indeed interesting.
> 
> At Head-Fi, are there any reports of modded android smartphones that work with a usb-dac?
> (I've read only about the stock Galaxy S3, some tablets and the Nokia N8 with Symbian OS)


 
   
  S3, Archos G9 tablets and Nook Colour are the only Android devices I've heard of that work with USB DACs, and of those the only one that doesn't support them out of the box and had support enabled by the dev community is the Nook.


----------



## DanBa

Android kernel modders have also enabled the standard USB audio feature on:
  . Google Nexus One smartphone
http://sven.killig.de/android/N1/2.2/usb_host/#x11
  . HTC Desire smartphone
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7682621&postcount=46
  . Ainol Allwinner A10 tablet
http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/29289-usb-audio-cards-support-drivers-and-libs/
  . Wits A81G tablet
http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/29289-usb-audio-cards-support-drivers-and-libs/page__st__20__p__380078#entry380078
  . Hyundai A7HD tablet and many others 
  .http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/33373-rom-cm9-nightlies/


----------



## newdm

@NZtechfreak and DanBa:
  Okay, after all a couple android-devices, as well as I hoped for some more smartphones...
   
   
  Quote:


jamesfiio said:


> we already start develop a portable dac for Android phone which is total selfpowered.


 
  Sounds promising, is there already a approximately release date?
  (2012 or 2013?)


----------



## Kojaku

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> we already start develop a portable dac for Android phone which is total selfpowered.


 
   
  Release by September please!!! Would be the best b-day present ever...
   
  Kojaku


----------



## Kojaku

Quote: 





nztechfreak said:


> S3, Archos G9 tablets and Nook Colour are the only Android devices I've heard of that work with USB DACs, and of those the only one that doesn't support them out of the box and had support enabled by the dev community is the Nook.


 

 Of these, only the G9 and Nook have support for the E17, which is the best portable, rechargeable DAC implementation around...
   
  Kojaku


----------



## a_tumiwa

> we already start develop a portable dac for Android phone which is total selfpowered.


 
  Very good news


----------



## Kojaku

kojaku said:


> Of these, only the G9 and Nook have support for the E17, which is the best portable, rechargeable DAC implementation around...
> 
> Kojaku




Hm...I may retract this. I hear fantastic things about the pico DAC/Amp, same chip, better engineering...

Kojaku


----------



## Typhoon859

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> we already start develop a portable dac for Android phone which is total selfpowered.


 

 I don't understand.  The FiiO E17 has an option to turn off being powered by USB and it's self-powered...  Why can't it be made to work like the E7?  I just spent $140 on it and bought multiple more for others for this exact reason so instead of getting it to work there's another amp being developed for this purpose?...  Can't help but find that irritating (more than irritating actually) no matter what it is I may be missing...


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





typhoon859 said:


> I don't understand.  The FiiO E17 has an option to turn off being powered by USB and it's self-powered...  Why can't it be made to work like the E7?  I just spent $140 on it and bought multiple more for others for this exact reason so instead of getting it to work there's another amp being developed for this purpose?...  Can't help but find that irritating (more than irritating actually) no matter what it is I may be missing...


 
  getting it to work may not be possible. Considering the E17 has a buggy USB Descriptor, if you want it to work, you will haveto patch the ALSA driver in the kernel of a custom rom.


----------



## Typhoon859

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> getting it to work may not be possible. Considering the E17 has a buggy USB Descriptor, if you want it to work, you will haveto patch the ALSA driver in the kernel of a custom rom.


 

 Can't that be done through a firmware update?  The fix you mention is all software vs. hardware.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





typhoon859 said:


> Can't that be done through a firmware update?  The fix you mention is all software vs. hardware.


 
  only if Fiio has a method to update the firmware which I highly doubt.


----------



## dsan

wir3d said:


> only if Fiio has a method to update the firmware which I highly doubt.





Agreed. Their dac has an issue


----------



## Typhoon859

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> only if Fiio has a method to update the firmware which I highly doubt.


 

 Well, this may be far fetched for a _relatively _small company like FiiO but this does seem to be a mistake on their part, so for the not so many people that would like this functionality maybe it can be sent in and replaced with the upgrade?  Maybe it could be on the customers' shipping expense.  It certainly wouldn't be fair for them to correct the problem and release a new product with a few aesthetic tweaks, marketed with the pretext of a fix for the issue.  I mean, that would be approaching scam territory.  Regardless of how much I truly love my E17, things like that overwrite whatever it is great I may own by the company.  Sony often uses such business practices (if not worse) and would be a great example of an organization which I despise for such reasons.  I hope that's not what happens with this situation.  The people at FiiO seem like really cool people.


----------



## ClieOS

The USB chip in E17 is the same one used in ODAC, the Tenor TE7022. I don't really think there is anything wrong with that chip, but it isn't quite as easy to implement as the TI PCM27xx chip in E7. You'll need to understand E17 use a totally different circuit designed than the E7. The Tenor chip feeds the USB signal to a Wolfson SPDIF Transcoder, then the transcoder feed it to the DAC chip. In comparison, E7's TI chip feed directly to the Wolfson DAC. The extra chip and circuit on E17 is what make it possible to take SPDIF signal as well as USB. But those come with a price in power draw. It is common practice in the industry for DAC section to draw power directly from the USB port, so even with recharging disable, it only stops the battery from charging, not the DAC section from not drawing power from the USB port. If you consider that, you will know why your smartphone can support E7 but not the E17, because E17 is much more power hungry than E7 will ever be.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





clieos said:


> The USB chip in E17 is the same one used in ODAC, the Tenor TE7022. I don't really think there is anything wrong with that chip, but it isn't quite as easy to implement as the TI PCM27xx chip in E7. You'll need to understand E17 use a totally different circuit designed than the E7. The Tenor chip feeds the USB signal to a Wolfson SPDIF Transcoder, then the transcoder feed it to the DAC chip. In comparison, E7's TI chip feed directly to the Wolfson DAC. The extra chip and circuit on E17 is what make it possible to take SPDIF signal as well as USB. But those come with a price in power draw. It is common practice in the industry for DAC section to draw power directly from the USB port, so even with recharging disable, it only stops the battery from charging, not the DAC section from not drawing power from the USB port. If you consider that, you will know why your smartphone can support E7 but not the E17, because E17 is much more power hungry than E7 will ever be.


 
  I think you have a valid point, but missed the main point, the buggy descriptor, then again even if they fix the descriptor which they won't the power draw can be an issue for mobile devices with 100mW maximum power draw, Considering the ODAC needs 125mw and still functions, albeit not so well... mmm


----------



## ClieOS

Given someone is able to get E17 working with Archos G9 even with the buggy descriptor, I don't think it isn't an unsolvable problem without FiiO trying to fix the descriptor. It will be good if FiiO did so anyway, but it is part of the problem, not all of the problem.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Given someone is able to get E17 working with Archos G9 even with the buggy descriptor, I don't think it isn't an unsolvable problem without FiiO trying to fix the descriptor. It will be good if FiiO did so anyway, but it is part of the problem, not all of the problem.


 
  I already stated that....


----------



## Typhoon859

Quote: 





clieos said:


> The USB chip in E17 is the same one used in ODAC, the Tenor TE7022. I don't really think there is anything wrong with that chip, but it isn't quite as easy to implement as the TI PCM27xx chip in E7. You'll need to understand E17 use a totally different circuit designed than the E7. The Tenor chip feeds the USB signal to a Wolfson SPDIF Transcoder, then the transcoder feed it to the DAC chip. In comparison, E7's TI chip feed directly to the Wolfson DAC. The extra chip and circuit on E17 is what make it possible to take SPDIF signal as well as USB. But those come with a price in power draw. It is common practice in the industry for DAC section to draw power directly from the USB port, so even with recharging disable, it only stops the battery from charging, not the DAC section from not drawing power from the USB port. If you consider that, you will know why your smartphone can support E7 but not the E17, because E17 is much more power hungry than E7 will ever be.


 

 Finally something I could understand without all the USB jargon.  Thank you!


----------



## qusp

is it really that hard to understand? its been explained numerous times. some dacs need more than 100mA, portable devices in general do not want to supply more than 100mA over a USB connection they are hosting, as it strains the power supply and shortens battery life. some dacs will work as they are working on 100mA or around that amount, some use more; thus need to supply their own power and be able to tell the android device/host they can do that.
   
  pretty sure ClieOS was just trying to keep it simple, but the tenor chip does not transcode USB over to WM8804/5, it sends I2S, thats the whole point of the tenor chip, convert USB to i2s


----------



## ClieOS

Yep, that's what I mean. I am not 100% sure whether the Tenor chip in E17 is sending I2S or SPDIF-TX to the transcoder actually, but I think it is likely the later.


----------



## qusp

thought you might be.
   
  spdif for easier MUX? cant think of another reason to add 2 extra conversions. then again most companies releasing portable dacs dont seem to care too much about jitter, even the so called high end.


----------



## Typhoon859

Quote: 





qusp said:


> is it really that hard to understand? its been explained numerous times. some dacs need more than 100mA, portable devices in general do not want to supply more than 100mA over a USB connection they are hosting, as it strains the power supply and shortens battery life. some dacs will work as they are working on 100mA or around that amount, some use more; thus need to supply their own power and be able to tell the android device/host they can do that.
> 
> pretty sure ClieOS was just trying to keep it simple, but the tenor chip does not transcode USB over to WM8804/5, it sends I2S, thats the whole point of the tenor chip, convert USB to i2s


 

 No, it's not that difficult, but then again it wasn't stated that simply before and even if it were, that was before some of the things which ClieOS said were made clear, like that the battery doesn't power the DAC (which makes the not charging through USB function kind of useless).  And you further cleared it up even further with the underlined statement. 
   
  It still sounds like something which can be modified to work although might be very technically involved to do.


----------



## ClieOS

qusp said:


> thought you might be.
> 
> spdif for easier MUX? cant think of another reason to add 2 extra conversions. then again most companies releasing portable dacs dont seem to care too much about jitter, even the so called high end.




Probably because WM8740 only takes one set of I2S input, but WM8805 can take up to 8 channels of SPDIF input. So the whole implementation becomes simpler if WM8805 is used to control which input (optical, coax or SPDIF from Tenor) feed into the DAC instead of a different mechanism to control whether WM8805's or TE7022's I2S is used.


----------



## qusp

yeah like I said, MUX. a MUX in these terms is a switch/hub for digital inputs. i2s switching is a bit more involved than spdif. but with only 2 inputs its hardly a big deal. none of the receivers or dacs have multiple I2S inputs, not even 9018, the solution lies beforehand, particularly when you have the advantage of the WM880X doing async.
   
  spdif has inherently higher jitter, but i2s in order to do better than 880x (which is quite a good receiver if done well) needs careful routing, good termination/grounding and impedance controlled PCB layout. the problem of the MUX is not hard to solve, the rest is perhaps beyond the scope of a device at this budget, or the skillset of the designers. thats OK, its a consumer device, but its all too common in these portable devices to take the path of least resistance.
   
   
  Typhoon859: no its not straight forward, if it is set with pullup resistors it could perhaps be done, but if its a firmware setting then theres nothing the user can do about it


----------



## Typhoon859

Quote: 





qusp said:


> Typhoon859: no its not straight forward, if it is set with pullup resistors it could perhaps be done, but if its a firmware setting then theres nothing the user can do about it


 
  Yeah, that's what I meant by possibly very technically involved to do, and by this I mean for the average person and what would be worth it for them, not necessarily me.


----------



## ClieOS

Thanks for the info. It is good to learn new stuff.


----------



## DanBa

A slightly modded Nexus 7 interworks with a standard USB DAC FiiO E10 (that doesn't work with stock Samsung Galaxy S III for the moment):
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs-how-to-increase-the-issues-priority-with-google/225#post_8599585


----------



## _mouse_

Sorry but, to be more clear, I have to sell my E17 cause it cannot ever work with my HTC Sensation?


----------



## Kojaku

_mouse_ said:


> Sorry but, to be more clear, I have to sell my E17 cause it cannot ever work with my HTC Sensation?




Sold mine because the DAC section was a bit too warm and my current portable solution (SGS3-> Pico DAC/Amp) is much more neutral, portable, and detailed when compared to my old setup (Archos 101 G9-> E17-> TTVJ Slim)...

Kojaku


----------



## _mouse_

kojaku said:


> _mouse_ said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry but, to be more clear, I have to sell my E17 cause it cannot ever work with my HTC Sensation?
> ...



400$ for a portable amp?... not for me
Inviato dal mio HTC Sensation con Tapatalk 2


----------



## Kojaku

_mouse_ said:


> 400$ for a portable amp?... not for me
> Inviato dal mio HTC Sensation con Tapatalk 2




Bought my TTVJ Slim used, sold for $300, sold my FiiO for $125, you bought the Pico DAC/amp for $350 used. Walked out with $75 in my pocket .

Also this isn't just a portable amp I'm talking about. This is USB output AND HUGE voltage swing, yet neutral amping. Well worth the switch for me 

Kojaku


----------



## _mouse_

Which dac amp to replace my fiio in the same price range that might work with my smartphone did you suggest at the moment? Thanks

Inviato dal mio HTC Sensation con Tapatalk 2


----------



## ClieOS

_mouse_ said:


> Which dac amp to replace my fiio in the same price range that might work with my smartphone did you suggest at the moment? Thanks
> Inviato dal mio HTC Sensation con Tapatalk 2




Getting the right DAC/amp is only half of the answer. Are you 100% certain your smartphone has the proper USB host audio driver to work with external USB DAC?


----------



## _mouse_

clieos said:


> _mouse_ said:
> 
> 
> > Which dac amp to replace my fiio in the same price range that might work with my smartphone did you suggest at the moment? Thanks
> ...



First thanks for your great support.
Honestly I'm not sure of this, but reading this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=29911384 on xda it seems that my phone cannot give power to the USB device.

Inviato dal mio HTC Sensation con Tapatalk 2


----------



## DanBa

A Samsung Galaxy S III  interworks with a USB DAC/amp FiiO E7:
  http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=568&t=2770200&m=s&s=20&r=9&last=38070269
   
  Samsung Galaxy S III > digital audio stream >> USB OTG cable (Micro-A plug inserted in the S III) >> FiiO E7 >> Westone UM3X


----------



## CantScareMe

It's great that this thing is happening with android and usb out, thanks to people on this thread and the like...
   
  But, meaning no offense, is it worth using a fiio e7 from the s3. Does it improve the sound?? My samsung sgs voodoo easily beats the fiio e7 in both amping and dac areas. E7 ain't great at all.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

Can't seem to find a definite response to this :

 Anyone with a Galaxy Note successfully using it with a (desktop) USB DAC, or amp with a USB DAC? My Meier Cantate.2's USB DAC is powered off its own power supply so I just need data, no power necessary. Bonus if it has a dock to keep it upright or something (like the lineout dock for the the first Galaxy S, which I have).
   
  Considering an upgrade while there's a good deal for our family phone/data plan, and despite the larger SIII over the standard S I still prefer the size of the Note for my hand.


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





cantscareme said:


> But, meaning no offense, is it worth using a fiio e7 from the s3. Does it improve the sound??


 
   
   
  Apparently yes, according to the Google translation:
http://translate.google.fr/translate?hl=fr&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2F5i01.com%2Ftopicdetail.php%3Ff%3D568%26t%3D2770200%26p%3D1
   
  "Yesterday I received fiio e7 .
  Otg plug usb ..... bingo, can really yeah .
  Sound three thousand early head be regarded as good value for money ..
  Connected directly to usb dac, obviously you can feel the sound separation, intensity and s / n ratio than s3 Direct Push um3x good .."
   
  SGS3 player > internal DAC > internal amp >> Westone UM3X
  is inferior to
  same SGS3 player >> external FiiO E7 DAC > external  FiiO E7 amp >> same Westone UM3X
   
   
   

   
   
  The guy has also compared a FiiO E7-based S3 rig to an iBasso D12 Hj-based S3 rig:
  "3.3k vs 12.9k, this price gap, or the performance differences of the sound ..
  Of course, not four times the gap, but both ab test can still clearly hear d12hj lies in the high-frequency texture, separation and strength, the sense of space and high on a chip .."
   
  SGS3 player >> external FiiO E7 DAC > external  FiiO E7 amp >> Westone UM3X
  is inferior to
  same SGS3 player >> external iBasso D12 Hj DAC > external  iBasso D12 Hj amp >> same Westone UM3X
  or
  to his ears the USB DAC/amp FiiO E7 is inferior to the USB DAC/amp iBasso D12 Hj in a SGS3–Westone UM3X context.
   
   


cantscareme said:


> My samsung sgs voodoo easily beats the fiio e7 in both amping and dac areas. E7 ain't great at all.


 
   
   
  Would you rather mean
  [SGS player > internal voodoo DAC > internal voodoo amp] >> a given headphone
  is superior to
  [SGS3 player >> external FiiO E7 DAC > external FiiO E7 amp] >> a same given headphone
  where [ ] is a bundle?
   
  What is exactly voodoo?
  Is voodoo, a software stuff, related to the DAC part of a SGS?:
    stock internal DAC + voodoo => improved internal DAC?
  Is voodoo, a software stuff, related to the amp part of a SGS?:
    stock internal amp + voodoo => improved internal amp?
  Or
  is voodoo related to the player part of a SGS, like Amarra, a third-party audiophile player part of a Mac?
  http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/amarra_hifi.html
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/539740/mac-os-x-music-players-alternatives-to-itunes


----------



## CantScareMe

Oh right. If the fiio e7 is better than the samsung s3 headphone output then the samsung s3 isn't that great to be honest. I don't rate the e7 much at all. 
   
  When I say my sgs i9000, I mean this is one complete rig. Nothing supplementary is attached. And this beats the e7 with my headphones when the e7 is a used as a complete rig (with my laptop).
  BTW, the e17 is easily superior to both the e7 and the sgs i9000 with voodoo.
   
  Voodoo is just a custom kernel developed by adroid developer supercurio that allows for audio reproduction to be completely re-routed, skipping samsungs path to instead follow a more pure and clean path. All it needs is root access and then installation of the kernel. Lastly Installing the app 'voodoo sound' (or voodoo sound plus) lets one control specific features of this implementation. Yea, true, custom roms like darkys and cm9 (I think) come with voodoo sound inbuilt but that's not their main feature. Mine is stock rom (I don't wanna mess around ad infinitum with roms) with this kernel.


----------



## kroem

So, I take it that TTVJ Slim is not compatible? 

What about the HTC One X's usb out?


----------



## _mouse_

Now my E17 is sold 
  Waiting for Fiio news about the new line


----------



## JamesFiiO

some updated news about Android decoder.
   
  1, the Android 4.41 will supports record features which means we may add the talk function into our E18, so you don't need to unplug the headphone and plug to the phone again just for talking. 
   
   
  2, we will add some remote control function in the DAC, like the play/stop, preview, next keys.
   
   
  3, The Android phone can't be charged in USB audio mode. means we are considering to give up the idea to charge the phone by the DAC build in battery.
   
   
  Personally the charging feature in E18 is very important because the android phone's battery can not support heavy used.


----------



## zycker

Great news.
  Will you update e17 firmware to work with Android phones using usb ?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





zycker said:


> Great news.
> Will you update e17 firmware to work with Android phones using usb ?


 
   
  sorry not, E17's USB receiver chip will consume power from the USB , it is a hardware issue so can't be solved by firmware.


----------



## zycker

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> sorry not, E17's USB receiver chip will consume power from the USB , it is a hardware issue so can't be solved by firmware.


 
  I don't mean to charge an Android phone but just plug the e17 to the phone with usb (via otg cable) and use the e17's dac. We could have better quality than using phone's dac + jack audio cable.
  Some guys made it works with Samsung Galaxy S3.


----------



## justparty

so i really dont understand most of you on this site lol youre so technically above me i just need a simple answer from any of you please. does the fioo e17 work with the samsung galaxy player 5.0?? thanks


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





justparty said:


> so i really dont understand most of you on this site lol youre so technically above me i just need a simple answer from any of you please. does the fioo e17 work with the samsung galaxy player 5.0?? thanks


 
   
  E17 can not work with samsung galaxy player 5.0 directly.


----------



## Dyaems

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> E17 can not work with samsung galaxy player 5.0 directly.


 

 are you going to push through making amp/dac for android phones? =)
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/596072/potential-for-fiio-clas-and-fostex-hp-p1-competitor


----------



## justparty

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> E17 can not work with samsung galaxy player 5.0 directly.


 
  thanks for your help. if not directly what components or mods would be necessary. the galaxy player would be perfect for me but i dont want to sacrifice sound quality so i need a portable dac/amp for it plus the e17 just looks sexy


----------



## WiR3D

the e17 needs more power then a phone or galaxy device can give via usb, you can make it work, by patching the alsa driver, and by supplying extra power. No easy fix, no firmware fix possible. Understand that?
   
  Also @feiao congratulations, the E18 sounds good. what you may want to do is allow the user to chose, when he is not using the device he can switch it to "charge mode" and it will charge the phone, but when he does use it, he is forced to usb accessory mode. 
   
  that way charging is still possible.


----------



## JamesFiiO

You can only switcher on your Android phone when you want to charge it. not on the USB device . 
   
  Most Android phones have a build in switcher , so the micro usb pin can switcher from usb storage, usb OTG, charging , data transfer and so on,


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> You can only switcher on your Android phone when you want to charge it. not on the USB device .
> 
> Most Android phones have a build in switcher , so the micro usb pin can switcher from usb storage, usb OTG, charging , data transfer and so on,


 
  then I see no problem.
   
  Maybe I should just make a little widget that you use on the home screen to switch at a single click.


----------



## headfinoob

There are already some widgets that will allow for USB fast charging when connected to car chargers (kernel support required.)  I know the same can be accomplished via scripts.  One can create shortcuts that start a script with Script Manager. 
  I wonder what the app Stickmount is doing exactly?  It allows for mounting thumbdrives or harddrive partitions.


----------



## pepemosca

So, does or does not work the *USB DAO* in CyanogenMod 9 or 10? Or all the output is going thru the phone amplifier?


----------



## atmospheric

hey guys, just thought i'd post this here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1930664
   
  it's a bounty attempting to sway a developer to introduce the USB audio (external DAC support) feature on AOKP or CM10.  so far we've raised the bounty to a bit under $600.
   
   
   



pepemosca said:


> So, does or does not work the *USB DAO* in CyanogenMod 9 or 10? Or all the output is going thru the phone amplifier?


 

  no it does not.  it supports a google specified method where the DAC is a USB host, not the other way around.  this requires a new class of device that does not currently exist.


----------



## DanBa

Sorry, I don’t understand what your guys want.
  The stock Samsung Galaxy S III can output a USB audio stream while being charged with a Y-cable.
   
  "I bought Behringer UCA222 USB DAC and tested it in my car with the USB OTG cable with power from ebay that I mentioned before. It works great! And the phone is indicating a charge."
  http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=32773403&postcount=1352
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/405#post_8748466


----------



## atmospheric

Quote: 





danba said:


> Sorry, I don’t understand what your guys want.
> The stock Samsung Galaxy S III can output a USB audio stream while being charged with a Y-cable.
> 
> "I bought Behringer UCA222 USB DAC and tested it in my car with the USB OTG cable with power from ebay that I mentioned before. It works great! And the phone is indicating a charge."
> ...


 
   
  we want this support in CM10 and AOKP so that CM10/AOKP compatible devices (most of them!) are capable of using USB audio.  On the Samsung Galaxy S III USB AUO is only supported on the stock ROM/kernel.


----------



## teddytejero

atmospheric said:


> we want this support in CM10 and AOKP so that CM10/AOKP compatible devices (most of them!) are capable of using USB audio.  On the Samsung Galaxy S III USB AUO is only supported on the stock ROM/kernel.



I have a Toshiba 10'' Tablet and I'm running CM10. The E17 doesn`t work. The Usb app detects that Usb host is enabled but fails to load an specific driver

missing S3C USB driver to get USB audio working!


----------



## Kojaku

teddytejero said:


> I have a Toshiba 10'' Tablet and I'm running CM10. The E17 doesn`t work. The Usb app detects that Usb host is enabled but fails to load an specific driver
> missing S3C USB driver to get USB audio working!




Yup. This functionality usually has to be implemented by the manufacturer (like in the case of Samsung and Archos).

Kojaku


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





teddytejero said:


> I have a Toshiba 10'' Tablet and I'm running CM10. The E17 doesn`t work. The Usb app detects that Usb host is enabled but fails to load an specific driver
> missing S3C USB driver to get USB audio working!


 
   
  Quote: 





kojaku said:


> Yup. This functionality usually has to be implemented by the manufacturer (like in the case of Samsung and Archos).
> Kojaku


 
   
  The E17 has a buggy descriptor so it won't work. Unless you patch the ALSA driver with a fix.


----------



## teddytejero

wir3d said:


> The E17 has a buggy descriptor so it won't work. Unless you patch the ALSA driver with a fix.




USB sound test

Test usb audio .

I tried to connect my Fiio E17 external DAC to the Thrive . The app I used was 'usbaudiotester root'. To my supprise the output through USB to the amp/dac E17 was a succes. The app uses the microphone - Thrive - and outputs thisVia USB to the amp/dac ... I could listen to the stream with my attached headphone.

Next step : using a media player app and streaming audio to the dac still doesn't work.I think the CM10 - Thrive is able to stream audio to an external dac - BYPASSING the poor analog sound of the thrive - To an external digital to analog converter/amp and thus giving finally an audiophile sound to the user. 

I think we just need an app that can divert the digital audio stream to the USB portPlease help search an app because this is actually a HYPE on every audio forum. At this time only the Archos 9 isThe only tablet that has audio usb supportThanks for your support

This was the app that pushed audio through USB 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...=search_result

thanks again!


----------



## TjPhysicist

whats the name of the app u tried to link to? The link resolves to "https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...=search_result" literally.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





teddytejero said:


> USB sound test
> 
> Test usb audio .
> I tried to connect my Fiio E17 external DAC to the Thrive . The app I used was 'usbaudiotester root'. To my supprise the output through USB to the amp/dac E17 was a succes. The app uses the microphone - Thrive - and outputs thisVia USB to the amp/dac ... I could listen to the stream with my attached headphone.
> ...


 
   
   
  Can't find the APPS, it is a great news to so many user who have E17 and GALAXY S3.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Can't find the APPS, it is a great news to so many user who have E17 and GALAXY S3.


 
  Actually I just think its a lenient kernal / ALSA driver,  which Samsung can do officially, if you can get them to that is...


----------



## 329161

I'm having trouble understanding the subject of this thread. Does the CyanogenMod allow audio via usb or not?


----------



## teddytejero

tjphysicist said:


> whats the name of the app u tried to link to? The link resolves to "https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...=search_result
> " literally.



The app I tried was :

Usb audio tester root

Have to say again clearly 'This app pushes the audio captured from the microphone through the usb port towards the dac amp E17'

I tried to motivate the devs from the Toshiba Thrive forum to look into this but no luck ...


----------



## teddytejero

dcfac73 said:


> I'm having trouble understanding the subject of this thread. Does the CyanogenMod allow audio via usb or not?



I'm on CM 10 - U4 . Actually everything is there to push audio through the USB. Only need to find an app - develop an app - that channels audio towards the USB port !

There is a new version of the usb audio tester root app. Maybe someone should contact the developer

Pls test your device and send reports

TT


----------



## Typhoon859

Quote: 





teddytejero said:


> USB sound test
> 
> Test usb audio .
> 
> ...


 
  Hmm, interesting...  So essentially this would prove that it isn't a limitation of interfacing between the the S3 and the E17, like power or whatever else it may be (which never made sense to me in the first place since the E17 could be self-powered), right?  This function is otherwise useless.  Unless I'm missing something, I couldn't think of a reason to output the recorded sound of the mic and the phone's ADC to an external DAC.  The only point would be to hear yourself I guess more accurately if that's what you're doing.  I guess with something like the E17, it also gives a line-out option real-time for that particular recording.  I definitely feel like I'm missing something though because I don't have the phone and have no idea what "Thrive" is.  Is that the name of the mic/ADC or some sort of software protocol?..  Lol, and thanks for the discovery.  I'm surprsied nobody has jumped on this yet...  Why not?


----------



## NZtechfreak

Quote: 





teddytejero said:


> I think we just need an app that can divert the digital audio stream to the USB portPlease help search an app because this is actually a HYPE on every audio forum. At this time only the Archos 9 isThe only tablet that has audio usb supportThanks for your support


 
   
  Thanks for your post, but just to correct this one little point - the Galaxy Note 10.1 also supports USB audio natively.


----------



## devhen

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> some updated news about Android decoder.
> 
> 1, the Android 4.41 will supports record features which means we may add the talk function into our E18, so you don't need to unplug the headphone and plug to the phone again just for talking.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm really looking forward to this! Androids really need a proper way for digital audio out to a dac. I would buy one in a heartbeat!


----------



## NZtechfreak

Quote: 





devhen said:


> I'm really looking forward to this! Androids really need a proper way for digital audio out to a dac. I would buy one in a heartbeat!


 
   
  Several already do, and an increasing number this year will follow suite. So far Samsung have added it to the S3/Note 2/Note 10.1, and every recent model HTC seems to have it on their Jelly Bean updates too (I've personally confirmed with my HTC Butterfly, and a number of people have confirmed with the One X on Jelly Bean firmwares, although HTCs support is not as broad as Samsungs for now). Many other 'Droids with USB OTG will also be able to support USB audio via the USB Audio Recorder app, although that isn't anywhere near as good a solution for music playback as proper native support.


----------



## bmahe

So, when can we expect a micro usb to mini usb OTG cable from FiiO?


----------



## dmaudlin

*Announcement from Cypher Labs: AlgoRhythm Solo –dB plays high resolution tracks on Android devices.*
   
  Tracks of resolutions up to 24/192 now play from Android devices through the AlgoRhythm Solo –dB, at full resolution in asynchronous mode. Simply load tracks, or entire folders of tracks, onto a micro SD card, connect the devices and play tracks using a USB audio application _USB Audio Recorder Pro._
   
  Get the full details here http://cypherlabs.com/blog/post/android-devices-play-high-resolution-audio-using-the-algorhythm-solo-db
   
  Thanks,
   
  David Maudlin
  Cypher Labs


----------

