# REVIEW: Decware Select Zen CSP2 Tube Headphone Amp



## Skylab

I was able to convince Steve Deckert, head Zen of Decware, to send me his Zen CSP2 headphone preamp for review. While the CSP2 is also marketed as a preamp, I did not try it as such. It does have 2 inputs, and trim pots for the preamp outs. The CSP2 is an OTL (Output Transformer-Less) design.

 Manufacturer's website: DECWARE / High Fidelity Engineering Co.

 The CSP2 is housed in a nice wood frame, but absolutely everything is top mounted – tubes, inputs and outputs, AC cord, trim pots for the preamp outs. I’m not s sure that’s my favorite configuration – I generally prefer my jacks to be front-and-rear mounted, but the CSP2 does have kind of a cool look – here is a pic:




















 The CSP2’s stock tube configuration consists of three Russian 6N1P dual-triodes (one serving as an input tube for both channels and one as a power tube for each channel) and a 5Y3 rectifier tube. Decware supplies an RCA 5Y3GT that looked OK. I used none of these tubes, however. I used a trio of JAN-Sylvania gray-plate 6DJ8’s and a JAN-GE 5Y3WGTB (6087) for the rectifier, all NOS. The truly excellent manual covers tube rolling in detail, and is in well-written English, as the amps are made by Decware in Illinois. The manual provides some basic info about how the sound will likely change using either a 6DJ8 or 6922 in place of the 6N1P, and also lists that 5U4, 5AR4, GZ34, and 274B rectifier tubes can all be used. Some 5U4 tube types can be VERY expensive, and I did not have any available, so I stuck with the 5Y3WGTB, which is not an expensive tube, but at least in this amp, sounded TERRIFIC.

 And that is the main thing I have to say about the CSP2 – it is a truly, truly excellent tube amplifier. It has enthralling sonics. Transparent, lush, detailed, dynamic – frankly, I wasn’t really prepared for how good it sounded. It isn’t really a cheap amp, at $795 (and about $80 worth of NOS tubes in my case), but it sounds just fantastic. Bass was deep, powerful, and well defined. It was a little less controlled than my SinglePower Extreme, but still truly excellent. 

 The Midrange was open, transparent, lush, inviting – really ALL the things I hope to get from a tube amp in the mids were delivered in spades. This is truly an amp that lovers of midrange purity will really enjoy. Listening to My Morning Jacket’s “One Big Holiday”, both vocals are guitar were simultaneously clear and distinct. I would characterize the mids as just slightly rich/ripe/fat – what one would expect from a 6DJ8/6922 amp – but certainly not overly so by any means. And dynamics of snare drum hits were still very fast. 

 On top the CSP2 is smooth as silk, and quite extended. Treble detain is also very good. The SinglePower Extreme has a little more treble extension, and a little more detail, but the CSP2 is no slouch. And it has plenty enough detail to keep things interesting to be sure, while being unfailingly smooth. The interesting percussion details on Sheryl Crow’s “There Goes The Neighborhood” was very cleanly represented.

 Soundstaging was also excellent. The imaging was very holographic. I did feel depth was better than width, and this was again another area where the SP Extreme was a little better, but the soundstaging of the CSP2 was very convincing and notably better than less expensive amps like my Woo Audio WA3. 

 The CSP2 was able to drive my 27 ohm Denon D5000’s extremely well, and equally my 600 ohm Beyer DT990’s. It’s listed as handling headphones from 30-600 ohms. I certainly satisfied myself that this is true. There was plenty of gain for both sets of headphones. 

 Also, and very importantly, the CSP2 is TOTALLY quiet. No hum at ALL. It’s a silent runner, which is really nice.
*
 Conclusions:*

 The CSP2 is a truly excellent headphone amp. In fact, of the tube headphone amps I already have, the CSP2 is better than the WA3, the Ming Da 84-C 07, and the TNS Sweet 2. I felt the Darkvoice 337 and SP Extreme were a little more to my personal liking, but only VERY slightly, and the CSP2 is available from a USA maker who is very, very responsive to customers, so it deserves strong consideration in its price range. Color me impressed. I am going to try to score a couple decent 5U4G rectifier tubes, and I will report back on how they sound. In the meantime, I can enthusiastically recommend the CSP2.


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## ZephyrSapphire

FINALLY! A review for this headphone amp. Wonderful review Skylab!


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## jpstereo

I was waiting for this. Thanks Skylab. It's on my list....


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## NoPants

damn can't get tempted while my dv337 is in the shop

 why you do this to me =(


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## jpstereo

Skylab, when you post further impressions and if you have the time - can you snap a few more pics of the CSP2 (perhaps top, back and side views.) It sure does look like a beautiful piece of gear.

 Many thanks!


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## arirug

Skylab you are a good seller! Five minutes after I read your rewiev, the CSP2 was ordered. I am also waiting for a Singlepower Extreme.


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## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arirug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab you are a good seller! Five minutes after I read your rewiev, the CSP2 was ordered. I am also waiting for a Singlepower Extreme._

 

It's a really great sounding amp - I really don't think you will regret it. 

 I have ordered some 5U4G's to try as the rectifier tubes. I used an older Sylvania 5Y3G ST/Coke bottle style tube yesterday, and it sounded excellent, but not sure it was any better (or worse) than the 5Y3WGTB.

 EDIT: I also added some additional pics to the review.


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## jpstereo

Thanks for the extra pics Skylab! Much appreciated!!


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## nor_spoon

Thank you very much for a great review Skylab! 
 Kind of odd with all the inputs on top of the amp. Strike me as troublesome, especially with stiff cables. The amp looks serious though.


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## Skylab

So I am listening right now to the brand new Darkvoice 336SE (which is next in the review cue), and I can tell you without hesitation that the Decware CSP is far, far superior to the 336SE. It's more than 2x the price of course, but it certainly sounds like it.


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## sberger

Great review. And yes, a great amp, which I have proudly owned for over 2 years. And by the way, it is also a terrific preamp which I use with Steve's Taboo amp. 

 Decware makes very good stuff.


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## NoPants

is it can be nekkid pics tiem now


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## Gazza

Skylab:

 I have just received my JVC HP-DX1000 headphones.

 Have you tried this amp with your JVCs yet?

 I'm looking for a good home amp to match 'em and this amp has piqued my interest.

 Thanks.


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## Skylab

OH YEAH - the CSP-2 sounds GREAT with the DX1000. This is a very nice match.

 In a couple days I will report back on the sound with the 5U4G rectifier in place of the 5Y3G.


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## Gazza

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OH YEAH - the CSP-2 sounds GREAT with the DX1000. This is a very nice match.

 In a couple days I will report back on the sound with the 5U4G rectifier in place of the 5Y3G._

 

Great, thanks for your reply.

 Just to clarify, how does the handle the slightly warmer nature of the DX100? Does it tame the cavernous bass?


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## Skylab

I really don't think of it as "taming" the bass, no. But I don't think of the sound of the combo to be at all bloated. I think the magic of the DX1000 is that the bass is very deep, but ultra-fast, and the CSP-2 does not mess this up, thank goodness.


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## Gazza

Ah, brilliant.

 It's definitely on my shortlist.


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## atbglenn

Any chance we can see some internal shots?


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## Skylab

No, I am not going to take it apart - sorry. I don't disassemble loaner units.


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I am not going to take it apart - sorry. I don't disassemble loaner units._

 

 I totally understand


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## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sberger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great review. And yes, a great amp, which I have proudly owned for over 2 years. And by the way, it is also a terrific preamp which I use with Steve's Taboo amp. 

 Decware makes very good stuff._

 

I just received a new Taboo, too. I have had it for just 11 days. I am inclined to eventually add a CSP2 to my Taboo.


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## rivieraranch

I own the predecessor of this unit, the MLB amplifier and I use it in my office. From what I have read, the MLB is very close to the CSP2 in performance, etc. It uses the same 6N1P/5Y3 tube combination and uses an expensive English Sowter transformer. It is very well made and inspired confidence. 

 DECWARE is very open about all their gear. They are not hiding anything from anybody. On their forums you can read about problems folks have had as well as what the majority of posters over there have to say; that they are deeply, madly satisfied with their equipment.

 You can call with a question any time and the people on the other end are always helpful; what is more, they love audio.


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## Eli Duttman

Skylab,

 Try a 6106 as the rectifier in your CSP2. The "Red Bank" tube sounds very good and it's *TOUGH.* Like the 6087/5Y3WGTB, the 6106 is a 5Y3 with a cathode sleeve. Bendix developed the type for use in (sic) Nike anti-aircraft guided missiles.

 Chinese and Russian tubes purported to be 5U4Gs can be disappointing. They are known to arc over, when used in combination with caps. and voltages that are well within published limits. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If 5U4s hold your interest, I suggest you acquire a NOS, US made, 5U4GB. Sorry, you don't get the "sexy" ST envelope, but you do get the crucial electrical and sonic performance.


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## Skylab

Thanks Eli. If I wasn't clear, I am not using ANY Chinese or Russian tubes. I am using NOS Sylvania tubes. I have been using a Sylvania 5Y3G, and I did use a 6106 as well as the 6087/5Y3WGTB, but I am now using a JAN-Sylvania VT-244/5U4G. I have been using JAN-Sylvania 6DJ8's the whole time.


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## arirug

Shipping notification received! Should be here within the next week. It took one month from ordering till they finished it. And that was exactly what they told me. I have started looking for tubes on ebay. Are there any who can recommend a few trustworthy ebay dealers who ships 6DJ8 or its equivavelent worldwide?


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## Skylab

I'd recommend Welcome to TubeDepot.com! - pick up some JAN Sylvanias.


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## arirug

Thank you Skylab! I will do that!


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## arirug

Today it was delivered to my door. I had to pay 230 dollars in customs charge, so the total inclusive shipping is 1143 dollars. I have just tried it for two hours with the original tubes; 1 Ruby 5U4GC and three Russian 6N1P. Even with this tubes it beats my Two modified Darkvoice 336i and graham Slee Solo hands down! My MD2000 Deluxe, markl modded Denon D2000, really shines! This CSP2 together with the markl modded Denons are the two audio buys ever that have made me most satisfied! Will write more later.


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## Skylab

Very good to hear, arirug! If you can get a Western vintage/NOS 5U4G and some 6DJ8's, it will sound even better! Congrats on getting a fine, fine amp.


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## arirug

Thank you Skylab! I have allready bought 3 NOS Sylvania 6DJ8 tubes, 2 NOS 5U4GB JAN Philips and 2 5U4GB Sylvania NOS.


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## Skylab

Those are very nice tubes! They should sound great.


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## arirug

Bought three NOS JAN Philips 6922 today. These are rated the "best buy" by Vacuum Tube Valley magazine in their 6DJ8 / 6922 tube shootout.

JAN-Philips 6922 Low Noise


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## arirug

When i start up the Decware now, I hear crackling noise in the headphones. this lasts for about 5 seconds. Then I can play the CD and everything sounds good. Is this normal? I have tried changing all the tubes, but the same thing is happening.


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## Skylab

You mean only when you first turn it on? I'm not sure if that is "normal" - you should email Steve at Decware. He will tell you.


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## arirug

Yes it is only when I turn it on. But they are not nice sounds. I will email him, or maybe try to call them tomorrow.


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## atbglenn

Does it sound like low level pings? If so, that could be normal. My Musical Fidelity X-Can V3 did that when powered up for the first 10 seconds. I was using the same tubes as well


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## arirug

No, it is just nasty distortion. Like the distortion you hear when searching for channels on the old radios. But a bit louder. Nice picture you got there!

 It all started when I plugged in my graham Slee Solo and a cd-player in the same environment of contacts. My CSP2 where playing music into one set of headphones, and on the same time I let my Solo burn in some headphones. Once i started the cd-player connected to the Solo, the Decware started giving very bad noise in the headphones connected to it. I turned off both equipments, and started the Decware again. Just a lot of noise came into the headphones. I let it rest for a while. Changed all the tubes, and it started with high noise, which settled after 5 seconds. Then it was quiet and the sound very good. Something must have happened, because the amplifier was silent when I started it in the first days I had it. My powercable has not been put in a grounded environment. Is that very bad? My two Darkvoice 336i has never been in a grounded contact, but I have never had any problems with them?


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arirug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice picture you got there!_

 

Thanks. I took it with a Nikon D50 with the cheap kit lens. Pretty amazing for such an inexpensive SLR.

 Well anyway, I wish you the best of luck with you noise issue. I'm sure it's nothing major. Your amp comes with a lifetime warranty which is awesome. And from what I hear, Decware is a great company to deal with.

 Glenn


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## arirug

Thank you! One way or another a solution will be found in the near future!


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## arirug

I called Steve Deckert today. When I should demonstrate for him the bad noise which came through the start up of the amplifier, then it had suddenly disappeared. He was a very serviceable man to talk to. We had a quite long talk and he gave me some advices. He asked me what my impressions of the Decware was, and I told him it was the best amplifier in the house. If I had any issues regarding the CSP2, I should just call him. I love my CSP2 so it`s good that I`m back on track. That will say 5-8 hours of use every day.


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## arirug

The noise came back. But it is just the 5 first seconds. Then everything is allright. I changed the tubes for what i thought was 3 Sylvania 6DJ8. Now the noise was totally gone. After a while I took a closer look at the tubes and see that I have received 2 Sylvania 6922 and one 6DJ8. So now the CSP2 was playing with one 6DJ8 in the front and two 6922 in the back. This combination worked great, but I still wanted to have three tubes of the same type in the amplifier. I took out the 6DJ8 and put in one of my Philips 6922 and then I had noise again. Tried a new one , noise again. then I tried the third of my Philips and this worked 100%. No noice at start-up. As a rectifier I use a Sylvania 5U4GB. I wonder if it is a big risk for making some damage to the tubes during tuberolling? But anyway now it works great and I am very satisfied! I have ordered some 6N1P NOVOSIBIRSK 1960~1966 Years military equipment , and some 6N1P-EV Made in Kaluga "VOSHOD" 1973 and 1975.


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## Skylab

My guess is the Sylvania tubes will sound better than the Russian tubes, but give it a try!

 I also think the older, coke-bottle shaped 5U4G sound better than the GB's, so that is another thing you can look for


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## arirug

Now I have three Sylvania 6DJ8 in the front, still the same rectifier. This sounds great! I will buy some 5U4g coke-bottled rectifiers in the near future. I haven`t tried the vintage russian tubes yet, because what`s in the decware now works so good! There are no noises at startup anymore! All in all a very good amp. Now I use this in the first floor and the Singlepower Extreme in the ground floor. The Travagan`s Red gets used once in a while.

 What do you think about the Decwares Top of the Line Silver Reference Interconnects, 1 meter $169.00? Is it worth spending 2x $169.00 for interconnects for the CSP2 and the Extreme? I use Oppo DVD-players as transport for both, and an Oritekv V4.1 DAC for the CSP2, and a Lavry DA-10 for the Extreme.


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## Skylab

The Russian tubes will not sound as good as those Sylvania 6DJ8's. I am using a trio of those and a 5U4G, and the sound from the CSP-2 is really quite amazing. I would have to say that the CSP-2, the RSA Raptor, and the WooAudio 2 or 6SE amps are the only tube amps I would consider recommending in the $750-1500 price category right now, given some of the other US amp makers'...um..."issues", and the difficulty of getting service on amps made in China that do not have US servicing distributors. Decware (like RSA and Woo) has EXCELLENT customer service as well as making a great product. 

 Arirug I have never heard any of his cables though.


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## achristilaw

I have had Steves Zen amp for quite a while now. I still power my home brew horns with his "C Select" amp on occasion. Nice Fellow! Good review Mr. Skylab, as always, keep em' coming!


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## arirug

I am trying to win some 5U4G`s on ebay now. I put in a bid for 2 RCA Fat Bottle D Getter 5U4G, and I am watching some other auctions. I guess within the next 10 days i should have some old american quality tubes. I did buy two 1959!!!=SVETLANA=5U4G/5C3S BLACK PLATE TESTED, from xryn on ebay though. I read some positive comments on them on internet, and for the price, i just had too buy a pair. In my Darkvoice 336i, I used Svetlana retifiers and was satisfied with them. I may try Decwares cables later this year.


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## arirug

I won those Fat-Bottle 5U4, 47 dollars including shipping. I also won 2 JAN 6080WB Vacuum Tubes - Ruggedized Twin Triodes, 30 dollars including shipping. And I am still bidding for some.


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## Skylab

Cool! What amp do you plan to use the 6080's in?


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## arirug

I wiil use them in the Singlepower Extreme. I am bidding on 2 Ken-Rad 1944 JAN 5U4G VT-244 also, but they are allready US $125.50, so i guess I give up these.


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## Skylab

WOW - that is pretty pricey for a pair of 5U4G!


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## auee

Gentleman,

 I have been driving myself crazy reading everything I can about headphone amps, tubed and solid state. I have never had a good headphone amp system or any tube component since I began listening to music with a "hi end" system almost thirty years ago. I am now ready to combine the two. I need your advise about whether I should order this particular amp or another such as the RSA Raptor. 

 My requirements and inclinations are as follows:

 1) I do not want to get an amp which is only usable or even at its best with one or two manufacturer's hps or only with one or two kinds of hps. Therefore, I am looking for an amp which will get the best or almost the best out of most of the popular quality hps such as the Denon 2000s, unmodified, HD650s, and 702s all of which I am considering ordering after the amp. I have started with the Denon 1001s which are really good straight out of my ipod, but I know better is out there and I am very interested in hearing it. 

 2) I am not confident in my ability to maintain the bias of the tubes. Therefore, I am focused on self or auto biasing amps.

 3) I do not upgrade very often. The only exception is with digital components which are constantly benefitting from technological developments like computers. I want to start out with almost the best available (I am aware of the law of diminishing returns in audio and do not pay a disproportionate premium for a small improvement) and keep it for many, many years. I also do not forsee myself buying more than one tube home headphone amp.

 4) I want to buy from a manufacturer who has good quality control and long term reliability. I find it ridiculous for a manufacturer to ship a defective audio component. 

 5) I only buy components from North American companies or those who have had a long presence here. If I have questions or problems I want the manufacturer to speak English, and be helpful and available for consultation and repair. That is why I have purchased components from Bel Canto, Bryston, Paradigm, Linn and Naim.

 6) I am looking for an amp which will be compatible with, have the right amount of gain, most mainstream solid state digital source components such as my Naim CD player and USB DACs such as the Benchmark.

 7) From my reading, using different tubes for different sound is part of the benefit of tube amplification and I do want to explore this. Therefore, I can foresee getting a few different types of quality tubes. However, I do not want to get an amp which needs expensive or very expensive tubes to operate at its best. In other words, I do not want to buy an amp which costs a thousand dollars and needs a set of tubes which costs no less than $100.00 to be worthwhile. That would make it necessary to spend multiple of hundreds of dollars to enjoy the benefits of the amp. I do not want to go down that road.

 8) In that regard, I listen to primarily rock, blues and folk, but also opera and orchestral works. I do not limit myself to audiophile recordings. The most important aspects of the reproduction of music to me is timing, pace, rhythm and tonality. Soundstaging and imaging is secondary. I am looking for an amp which maintains the timing of the music and the tonality of the instruments. 

 I wish to thank all of you who have taken the time to read this long post and offer your thoughts.


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## Skylab

If you are truly wanting to be able to drive very low impedance headphones like the Denons and you want the amp to be at its best with such headphones, then to meet all of your criterea, I'd say your best bet is the transformer-coupled WooAudio 6SE. I have never heard it, but it has a great rep, and to really do justice to very low impedance headphones, a tube amp needs to be transformer-coupled, not OTL like the CSP-2, which is a truly excellent amp from a great manufacturer, but does better with higher impedance cans. It actually drives lower-impedance headphones quite well, but again if that is an important criterea, I'd go for a TC tube amp.


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## auee

Skylab, thanks for the advise. If the CSP-2 satisfies my other criteria, them I can forgo low impedance headphones. I am not inflexible. Is there a list of recommended high impedance headphones including closed headphones, which I need because of the significant other or can you point me to some? I really appreciate the help.


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## Skylab

I used the "medium impedance" JVC DX1000 and my 600 ohm Beyer DT770 both to very good effect with the CSP-2.


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## mrarroyo

I know that many here believe that OTL tube amps can not be used to properly drive low impedance cans. Well I do not agree and for example I cite my Singlepower MPX3 driving a Grado RS-1, Ultrasone HFI-780 or PROline 2500, or a Denon D5000.

 I feel the MPX3 can drive any of them quite well, you may want to explore different tube combinations to focus on a particular presentation but w/ adapters you can use 5687, 6SN7, or 6BL7 output tubes. As a driver you can use 2C51, 6CG7, 6SN7, 12AX7/7025/5751 or 6BL7.

 Good luck.


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## Skylab

Both my SP amps, the DV 337, and the CSP-2 can handle low impedance headphones reasonably well. But I still think OTL amps sound better with high, or at least medium impedance cans. I use the MPX3 regularly with the 70 ohm JVC DX1000 and love it, and I use the DV337 with 80 ohm Beyers. But I never felt the Denon D5000's were at their best with any of my OTL amps, though they still sounded good.


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## auee

mrarroyo, 

 The Singlepower MPX3 exceeds the sum I am willing to pay for a headphone amp. Are you saying that the CSP-2 is capable of driving the Denon D5000s or more likely for me the Denon D2000s and will meet my other criteria, including my priorities of timing, dynamics and tonality over soundstaging and imaging? Thanks for the time all have spent in advising me.


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## mrarroyo

I have had a Rudistor Sistema NX-02 for about 2 weeks and I have a bit over 250 hours of burn-in, the amp makes the D5000 sound beautiful as well as the Ultrasone PROline 2500 and the HFI-780.

 The NX-02 can still be found on Amazon for about $610 plus S&H. On some occasions they have sold it for as low as $327.20 including S&H, that is how I got mine. I like it so much that I am an IC on my Singlepower to get the RPX-100 from Rudistor!!!

 If I go that route I will put the NX-02 for sale at the same as I bought it for, except I will want to sell it w/ the Ultrasone PROline 2500 which was one of the cans the NX-02 was made for. The other can being the Ultrasone PROline 750. Anyways if I do put it up for sale it would be $525 for the amp/can pair. Time will tell what I will do (or not).


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## Pricklely Peete

Nice review Skylab.........the 40's era VT244 Ken Rad is the creme de la creme of 5U4G ST types...I have the next best thing with an early 50's RCA and a Ken Rad JAN (from the 50's as well ) using those in a highly modified MeiXing MC-7R. The Decware stuff looks very very nice, thanks for the info on it.

 Peete.


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## Skylab

Yeah I have some 50's RCA's - need to find a 40's Ken-Rad though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the kind words.


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## olblueyez

What is the round silver thing next to the transformer, looks like a pot without a knob, is that for tube bias?


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## Skylab

The trim pots are to adjust the output level for the line outs when using it as a preamp.


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## olblueyez

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The trim pots are to adjust the output level for the line outs when using it as a preamp._

 

Very smart, thanks. Nice review.


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## rivieraranch

I bought my CSP2 last year and have enjoyed it a lot. I use it mostly as a preamplifier, and it takes DECWARE'S TABOO amplifier to a new level. The Von Schweikert speakers disappear and you might think I have floor standers in here. Those little screws that increase the voltage that the poster immediately above referred to are useful to "dial in" the sound you prefer.

 As for tubes, I am using a Mullard PCC88 in front, some Russian 6N1P's in back with an RCA 5U4GB rectifier. 

 In the Taboo I am using a Mullard CV4024 (12AT7) in front, with Sylvania 6BQ5's in back and an RCA 5U4GB rectifier. 

 I totally agree with Skylab's comments at the beginning of this thread regarding the CSP2 as a headphone amplifier.

 I have spoken to Steve Deckert many times and he never seems to be in a hurry to end the call. What a nice, knowledgeable man.


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## arnesto

I have a question, on the Decware CSP2 amplifier, it says that it has a user adjustable gain for each channel. 

 It that the same thing as adjusting the bias?

 What do you actually have to do to adjust it?


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## Skylab

No, it has nothing to do with setting bias. It truly sets the gain of the input, so that you can account for source inputs of various levels. It's a nice feature.

 I have continues to enjoy the CSP-2 more and more. It is a very fine amplifier, and with SinglePower amps not being readily available, it is the tube amp I most recommend in the $1000 and under price class.


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## Cheerwino

Nice review Skylab! I have my eye on one of these. Trying to decide whether to buy a used one that's an older CSP chassis upgraded to CSP2 that would need to have headphone jack added or if I should just buy new from Steve.


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## Skylab

The CSP-2 is really a nice amp. I recently ordered a different wood base for mine - will post some pics soon - looks even nicer. Also got some NOS Mullard tubes to use as well, now that the CSP-2 is in daily use


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## santacore

I agree with Skylab, this might be the best tube amp in it's price point. I have very much enjoyed my time with mine.

 Skylab, how much did a new base cost you? I've been thinking about trading out mine.


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## Skylab

The base I ordered, a dark red mahogany, was $150. Looks beautiful. Will post pics tomorrow.


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## santacore

Sounds nice, looking forward to seeing it.


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## Skylab

Here it is:


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## jpstereo

Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. Congrats Skylab! This amp is still on my list.


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## santacore

The new base looks great!

 BTW, does yours have a power switch? Mine does not, and it frustrates me. How do you handle it?


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## Skylab

Thanks guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, mine does have a power switch, right behind the transformer.


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## runswithaliens

Thanks for another informative review Skylab. Seems like a quality piece of equipment. Odd place to have the headphone jack in the back of the unit though. Any problems with the headphone cable tangling with the tubes?

 Also, I am glad to hear that you say it drives your Denon D5000’s extremely well. It seems some folks on the company's forums are having difficulties with low impedance cans, but could the Denons be the exception? Any one else tried this combination?


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## Skylab

For me the key is that it did not hum with the Denons, the way that many tube amps do. It was totally quiet. I also am using the CSP-2 with my 64 ohm JVC DX1000, and that works quite well.

 Still, I'm not sure the Denons are the best can to use with the CSP-2 - they can probably be amped better with an amp with a lower output impedance. But at least it does work, and sounds pretty decent, with no hum or other obvious issues.


----------



## runswithaliens

Thanks for the info. I'm seriously consider trading my Denons in on something with higher impedance so that I won't be so restricted in my amp choices. Is there a general impedance range to shoot for when choosing headphones with OTL amps in mind, such as 120 Ohm and higher?


----------



## Skylab

Its a complex issue - depends on the output impedance of the amp, and not just the nominal impedance of the headphone, but its impedance curve. However, my general experience is that headphones over 200 ohms seem pretty happy with almost all OTL tube amps.


----------



## santacore

I'm with ya Skylab, the amp is very quiet with all my phones including my Denon's.

 I don't however think the Denon's sound their best with this amp. They loose bass control and are bit less focused. In my experience this amps plays better with high impedance phones such as my Sennheiser HD650's. At the last L.A. meet, I think a lot of people were surprised by how good this combo sounded.


----------



## arirug

I use the Decware Csp2 daily with a pair of Sennheiser HD650. I think it sounds very good! In the beginning I used it with a pair of markl-modded Denon D2000 Deluxe and I even liked that combination!


----------



## haroT3k

With Singlepower defunct, how would this amp compare the the Darkvoice 337? I currently have a pair of Denon mD5000, but am looking forward to getting a pair of JVC DX1000.


----------



## Skylab

Well, I for one prefer the CSP-2 with the DX1000 over the DV337 (and I own and use both regularly). I get a little residual hum with the DX1000 and the DV337 that no amount of tube-rolling would cure; there is none with the CSP-2. I use higher impedance headphones with my 337 (600 ohm Beyers).


----------



## 71877

Interesting. I am/was looking at the DV337 for my DX1000.... Shame there are no european sellers for the CSP2 otherwise that one would be on my list too, but the import taxes....... :<

 Finding the ideal (tube)amp inside the EU for the DX1000 without breaking the bank is difficult


----------



## haroT3k

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I for one prefer the CSP-2 with the DX1000 over the DV337 (and I own and use both regularly). I get a little residual hum with the DX1000 and the DV337 that no amount of tube-rolling would cure; there is none with the CSP-2. I use higher impedance headphones with my 337 (600 ohm Beyers)._

 

How noticeable is the hum? How else do they match sonically, with regards to bass and soundstage width+depth? Is it worth the ~$200 difference?


----------



## Skylab

The hum was subtle - not audible with music playing. But I slightly prefer the sound of the CSP-2 as well - it exhibits better bass control with the DX100o than the 337 did.


----------



## haroT3k

recently I picked up a DX1000 and the Decware MLB (which several have claimed it was fairly similar to the newer CPS2) from the FS forum. First thing I noticed was that the MLB was extremely bright. I'm currently using 3 russian 6N1P-EV's up front and a RCA 5U4G at the back to offset the lack of bass. Are there other tube combo's I can use to add some punch to the bass?


----------



## Skylab

I don't like those Russian tubes. Get some Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8's, and it won't be bright


----------



## ciphercomplete

I stumbled upon Decware's site today while looking for room diffusers and saw this amp. I thought it looked awesome and it uses my all time favorite tubes (6DJ8/6922) so naturally I wanted some more info. Lo and behold there is a review. Headfi never lets me down. Great review Skylab.

 This one is definitely on my short list now. I am still debating going balanced with either the Phoenix or the WA22. 

 Skylab if I am not mistaken you did a review for the Phoenix correct? If thats the case, and I know this may be all from memory, how does it compare to the Zen?


----------



## Skylab

The Phoenix and CSP-2 are pretty different amps in many ways, but both are really excellent. For unbalanced headphones that are not super-low impedance, I'd go for the CSP-2 myself, although it's kind of a toss-up. But of course the Phoenix has a remote control, can drive any impedance of headphone, and really shines with balanced sources and headphones. Different beasts, really; both excellent though.


----------



## santacore

ciphercomplete, let me know if you're interested in one. I'm might be putting mine up for sale soon. It's a great amp, but I need re-coup some funds from a 300B amp that I recently purchased.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Almost pulled the trigger on a Woo 3+ with the Teflon tube base upgrade and then I see this thread using the search button. Man something to really think about now?? I will order something in the next week or so. Gotta love this hobby!


----------



## stoutblock

After hundreds of hours of research (mostly on head-fi), I decided to pull the trigger on this product. I'm fairly new to the high end HP scene but I think I will like the qualities of this amp based on the input from you guys. I am also in the market for a new set of cans so input on the best match to the CSP-2 would be highly appreciated.

 I have a set of Sony MDR-V6 cans that I have been using for years (18?) that are not a bad product IMHO. I have spent some time with the H650s on several occasions, and maybe it was the amplifiers used, but I was not impressed (sources seemed distant). I like the K701 cans better because they seem more engaging, but not sure if they are a good match with this OTL amp?

 I have a huge sellection of JDJ8, 6922, 7308 tubes (one of the reasons I bought this product) but specific input would be great especially when matched with HP recommendations.

 Thanks for all thoose who posted to convince me to plunge!


----------



## Skylab

I've had pretty good luck with a wide variety of headphones and the CSP-2. I'd say overall get the headphone you like the most - the CSP-2 should be able to do a decent job with it no matter what.

 As for tubes, I liked the Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8's best, and I am using the Sophia Princess 274B rectifier, although the Mullard 5U4G sounds at least as good if not better.


----------



## stoutblock

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had pretty good luck with a wide variety of headphones and the CSP-2. I'd say overall get the headphone you like the most - the CSP-2 should be able to do a decent job with it no matter what.

 As for tubes, I liked the Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8's best, and I am using the Sophia Princess 274B rectifier, although the Mullard 5U4G sounds at least as good if not better._

 

OK I'll go for the AKG K 701 (or maybe 702?). I've got several Bugle Boy 6DJ8 tubes and I am very fond of these in other equipment. I've got some old Tesla (non JJ) E88cc tubes from the 60s that I am also very fond of. My favorite 6DJ8, 6922, 7308 tubes I use in my First Sound Line stage are Mullard CV2493 E88cc tubes. These are military spec gold pin tubes that I get out of Europe. They are not cheap but I have found nothing better. 

 I've read up on the rectifiers so I'm sure to try a few of those also.

 Again, thanks for the recommendations!


----------



## Skylab

I have some CV2492/3 and they also sound great, for sure.


----------



## artears

I wonder how this amp sounds when paired with HD800s. Also, being an OTL design, how does it compare to Zana Deux? I would not be surprised if Zana is better, but still I am curious about it.

 I was checking Tubedepot and I have seen a lot of 6DJ8 variants. Telefunken, Siemens, different amperex tubes etc. Does anyone have an experience with Telefunken and Siemens variants?


----------



## Skylab

Telefunken and Siemens 6DJ8's are of the clean/bright/detailed sort. The ones I have tried in the CSP-2 tipped it too much to the bright side.

 That said, using Amperex tubes, the HD800's sounded very good on the CSP-2, IMHO.


----------



## artears

Thank you for the reply. There is one variant of amprex at Tubedepot, a NOS one, priced at $120 here: 6DJ8 / ECC88 AMPEREX 
 Is this the one you are mentioning? When I listened to the HD800s, I loved their detail and soundstage a lot. However, I also wanted a bit more lows in addition to all its sonic qualities. BTW, Beyer cans are too dark for me and I did not like the sibilance with GS1000s for example, just to give an idea. Will this amp with the amperex tube do the trick then?


----------



## Skylab

I think you'd like them, yes - but you can get them for way less $$$ if you work at it.


----------



## artears

Thank you for the information. Greatly appreciated.


----------



## stoutblock

Some Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm on the way (along with the csp2).

 What is burn in time on these?


----------



## Skylab

120 hours should do it.


----------



## tosehee

Can this drive hd800 sufficiently?


----------



## Skylab

IMHO, yes.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMHO, yes._

 

Thanks for a quick response.

 Phoenix, while great at what it does, is not my type of amp. I found it to be little too edge and harsh(?) sometimes.

 I am eying either this (after your great review) or NDA Sonnett. The price wise, Sonnett is a lot more expensive, but if I have to, I will add more fun and get Sonnett.

 WA22 is also very tempting, but it's little over my budget after spending so much on can/source/amp (which I just lost nearly $400 for 1+ month use)

 Have you had a chance to audition the Sonnett? If yes, how does it compare to this? Which amp would better suit me? I like more rounded and little warm sound (which is why I am leaning toward the tube amp).

 Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Unfortunately, no, I have never heard a Sonnett, although I would very much like to...


----------



## jdmoorman

Skylab,

 I see that you have used the SP 274B in the CSP2 for a few months now.
 How has the 274B been working out?

 Unfortunately I fried an EML 274B Mesh in mine, and according to George at tubesusa, that tube is incompatible with the CSP2 design (George and Steve discussed the situation, and determined that a choke is required for the EML - the CSP2 does not have one).

 So, I'm trying to determine if the CSP2/274B compatibility issue is unique the the EML, or if all 274B tubes will suffer a reduced lifespan.


----------



## Skylab

I have had no problem with the SP 274B. The Manual of the CSP-2 specifically lists the 274B as an acceptable rectifier tube. And I actually asked Decware if the SP 274B would work OK, and Steve Deckert replied that it would.

 So I have to assume the SP is OK


----------



## jdmoorman

Yeah, based on the CSP2 manual stating 274B compatibility, the great sonic performance of the SP 274B in my WA6, and the positive comments in this forum on the EML 274B in the WA6, I plopped one in the CSP2.

 The end result was:

 George,
 The tube died today.
 It was installed in a Decware CSP2, and had less than 300 hours on it.

 Hi John,
 Thanks for your detailed image here. I can see the cap values on most of the caps, but I'm afraid that the 220uF caps are the caps coming off of the rectifier. . . From what I see, this tube has been "cooked" due to larger than recommended capacitor values for the EML rectifiers, or higher than usual line voltage. I have seen a few tubes with this greyish black deposit on the glass(all the result from either issue). You cannot use an EML 274B or A with a first cap value of over 4uF. . . .
 George

 George & Steve,
 I thank both of you for your products and great support.
 It looks like we may have an incompatible combination, but I do not have the technical information (or understanding) needed to support the troubleshooting effort.
 Steve,
 Could you please contact George to help resolve the incompatibility?
 Thank you all,
 John

 Hello John,
 I spoke with Steve today, and we had a long conversation about the power supply. There is NO choke in your unit, and along with having to much capacitance towards the rectifier, the tube was doomed to failure from the beginning. Emission Labs shows the optimum power supply circuit to correspond with these tubes under the 274A/B icon on the tubesusa.com website, and you MUST use a choke when using their rectifier tubes. . . Steve says that he can do the mod for you, and I have instructed him, as well as directed him to the information on the tubesusa.com website to facilitate this. . . This has happened before to other's out there with different equipment. It's rare, but it happens. The greyish black appearance suggested to me that this was the issue. . . .
 Best Regards,
 George

 So,
 1 - The SP 274B also sounds great in the WA6 [me and other Head-Fi'ers]
 2 - Do NOT use the EML 274B in the CSP2 without mods [me (sigh)]
 3 - Is this a great obsession/hobby/business, or what? When do you ever get the heads of different companies collaborating together to solve some end users problem? Thanks George and Steve!
 4 - The SP 274B sounds great in the CSP2, and seems to be lasting ok, so far [Skylord]. 
 5 - The EML 274B works well in the WA6 [George and other Head-Fi'ers]

 Also,
 The EML 5U4G may or may not be suitable in the CSP2 [I've asked George, but don't have confirmation, yet]

 Side note: I don't know about the rest of the community, but I will benefit from a better understanding of the theory, designs, circuits, components and science behind our obsession. It's too easy to get forget that there are hard realities in our world of perception and subjectivities.

 Any comments or corrections from anyone?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jdmoorman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Side note: I don't know about the rest of the community, but I will benefit from a better understanding of the theory, designs, circuits, components and science behind our obsession. It's too easy to get forget that there are hard realities in our world of perception and subjectivities.

 Any comments or corrections from anyone?_

 

I highly recommend buying and reading this: Amazon.com: Beginner's Guide to Tube Audio Design (9781882580132): Bruce Rozenblit: Books


----------



## jdmoorman

Skylab,
 Thanks - it's on order.


----------



## stoutblock

I've had the headphones for a couple of weeks but just got the amp today. The phones have 20-30 hours on them running strait off my ASUS STX sound card (set at 600 Ohm gain) so they have settled in quite nicely (they actually sound better than they should in this set-up).

 The Amp now has about 4 hours on it tonight and will need some more time but I really like what I'm hearing! I used the stock tubes to make sure everything was working. Listening to some familar tracks and I noticed much more depth in the music. Instruments seem to have more space between them. On Boz - Loan me a dime (one of my favorite test tracks) I could hear all the instruments break out against the others. However Mr. Allman's guitar seemed a bit harsh.

 I rolled in an old GE rectifier and three of my prized CV2493 Mullard gold pins and replayed Boz. Yes I am going to like this amp, more dynamics, superb noise floor, same seperation but instruments were all much smoother.

 My daughter came in and listened to some Cold Play. Her eyes opened up in amazement. Now she wants one...


----------



## stoutblock

Left it playing all day while I was at work (yes a little scary with tubes). Tonight I am playing the Allman Brothers live at Fillmore East and I gotta say this baby is really starting to open up! Duane's guitar sounds simply awesome!


----------



## stoutblock

After several weeks of burning in both my CSP2 and Beyerdynamic headphones I can say this combo is quite sweet. I installed it on my system #2 today. As a preamplifier it does a respectable job but not in the same league as my First Sound. As a HP amplifier connected to the music hall DAC combined with the Beyers it is simply awesome! Great noise floor, great sound stage, SQ is natural and balanced. Respectable lows, calm and accurate highs, mid range is a little aft but full. Now I'm listening to a SACD thorugh the Maverick...:music:

 Current tubes are Mullard CV2493 with an old GE rectifier.


----------



## stoutblock

Have the Decware back in my office system #3 and just installed an NOS Sylvania 5Z3 rectifier with an adapter. My God! I thought this baby sounded great before but now the Beyers are making a sound so sweet they bring tears to my eyes. Extension, full body, and very, very smooth come to mind. Midrange has come way forward. Background instruments seem to appear with more presence than with the GE.

 Listening to Dizzy and Monk, Europe 71 tracks and I'm in awe. This Mullard CV2493 & Sylvania 5Z3 combo is great!


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arirug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The noise came back. But it is just the 5 first seconds. Then everything is allright. I changed the tubes for what i thought was 3 Sylvania 6DJ8. Now the noise was totally gone. After a while I took a closer look at the tubes and see that I have received 2 Sylvania 6922 and one 6DJ8. So now the CSP2 was playing with one 6DJ8 in the front and two 6922 in the back. This combination worked great, but I still wanted to have three tubes of the same type in the amplifier. I took out the 6DJ8 and put in one of my Philips 6922 and then I had noise again. Tried a new one , noise again. then I tried the third of my Philips and this worked 100%. No noice at start-up. As a rectifier I use a Sylvania 5U4GB. I wonder if it is a big risk for making some damage to the tubes during tuberolling? But anyway now it works great and I am very satisfied! I have ordered some 6N1P NOVOSIBIRSK 1960~1966 Years military equipment , and some 6N1P-EV Made in Kaluga "VOSHOD" 1973 and 1975._

 

Those damnable 1980's Phillips production 6922's have a high failure rate and short life. Best to look for pre-1976 Sylvania production in either the 6922 or 7308 type.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haroT3k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_recently I picked up a DX1000 and the Decware MLB (which several have claimed it was fairly similar to the newer CPS2) from the FS forum. First thing I noticed was that the MLB was extremely bright. I'm currently using 3 russian 6N1P-EV's up front and a RCA 5U4G at the back to offset the lack of bass. Are there other tube combo's I can use to add some punch to the bass?_

 

That was once my MLB. It was very well taken care of and was updated by DECWARE. It is cute as a button. On its last trip to DECWARE, Steve placed an internal OC2 tube to regulate the input I believe.


----------



## stoutblock

Skylab, I see you are using the CV2492s now in your CSP2? How do you like them compared to the BBs? I like the BBs but find myself keeping the CV2493s installed most the time. Awesome tubes that leave nothing behind...


----------



## Skylab

The CV2492's are my favorite 6922/6DJ8. Funny that up until 3-4 months ago I had never even heard of this variety - but they sound great. The BB's are great too of course. Given that I have never really liked the colder Siemens or Telefunken sound, the CV2492 and the BB are the best of this tube type, for me.


----------



## TNAaron

Hey everyone. My tax return should arrive soon and I am taking the plunge and buying a desktop setup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I recently purchased some HD-650s and have been seriously considering the Decware CSP-2.

 Does anyone have their CSP-2 paired with a Meier Corda StageDAC? Are there any other recommendations for DACs in the sub $800 price range? I am using an iMac (FLAC) as my source. Thanks for all the great info guys!


----------



## jdmoorman

I am feeding several headphone amps (including CSP2) with squeezebox -> Headroom Ultra Micro DAC.
 I was so pleased with the results of the first UMD, that I bought several more (some new, some used) for the rest of my amps.
 The UMD new was $600, and may only be availble used, now(?)
 But you can use it as a price/performance reference point.


----------



## stoutblock

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The CV2492's are my favorite 6922/6DJ8. Funny that up until 3-4 months ago I had never even heard of this variety - but they sound great. The BB's are great too of course. Given that I have never really liked the colder Siemens or Telefunken sound, the CV2492 and the BB are the best of this tube type, for me._

 

I get my NOS CV2493s out of a source in Europe. I have never compared them with the CV2492s directly. They have gold pins and are said to be the highest spec 6DJ8/6922/7308 ever. I run them in my First Sound line stage and my Music Hall DAC. They take the fun out of rolling because they sound so good.


----------



## stoutblock

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TNAaron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey everyone. My tax return should arrive soon and I am taking the plunge and buying a desktop setup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I recently purchased some HD-650s and have been seriously considering the Decware CSP-2.

 Does anyone have their CSP-2 paired with a Meier Corda StageDAC? Are there any other recommendations for DACs in the sub $800 price range? I am using an iMac (FLAC) as my source. Thanks for all the great info guys!_

 

Might try the Music Hall DAC25.2 but with a good NOS tube.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stoutblock* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I get my NOS CV2493s out of a source in Europe. I have never compared them with the CV2492s directly. They have gold pins and are said to be the highest spec 6DJ8/6922/7308 ever. I run them in my First Sound line stage and my Music Hall DAC. They take the fun out of rolling because they sound so good._

 

I was under the impression that the CV2492 and 2493 were identical. I have a 2493, and it does seem identical to the 2492 to me.


----------



## stoutblock

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was under the impression that the CV2492 and 2493 were identical. I have a 2493, and it does seem identical to the 2492 to me._

 

The 93 is suppose to have an even lower noise spec than the 92. I believe the 92 is still an E88cc spec but the 93 is a E88cc/01 spec. Chances are a 93 is a select 92.


----------



## Skylab

That makes sense - that they would be a carefully selected 2492. Nice tubes - that's for sure!


----------



## dreamwhisper

why don't you have to worry about finding tubes for this amp?


----------



## Skylab

I'm not really sure I understood your question, but as an attempt at doing so, the answer is that the tube types that it uses, the 6DJ8/6922, and the 5Y3 rectifier, are plentifully available.


----------



## lugnut

It sounds like it is a great headphone amp, however can anyone share a little more information on how it sounds being used as a preamp ? I have spent a lot of time searching and have come up with very little info on how it sounds as a preamp. Thanks


----------



## Skylab

I have not really evaluated as a preamp, personally.


----------



## stoutblock

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lugnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sounds like it is a great headphone amp, however can anyone share a little more information on how it sounds being used as a preamp ? I have spent a lot of time searching and have come up with very little info on how it sounds as a preamp. Thanks_

 

It is said to have good synergy with some amps. For kicks I hooked it up to my Primaluna Prologue 7 monoblocks one day. All I can say is that it did not sound near as dynamic as my First Sound line stage but that is not a fair comparison. I plan on buying an inexpensive Tripath amp for my office system to hook up to the CSP2. I think this will sound pretty good to drive a pair of ADC L300e speakers.


----------



## markm1111

After considering Miniwatt, Ming Da MC84-C07, Transcendere S5, conversion of various tube integrateds, both Chinese and Australian made, I have finally decided that I think the CSP-2 is most likely to meet all of my needs.

 So, for my first foray into the world of tubes, I am going to go for quality. My current headamp, which will be staying, is a Channel Islands Audio VHP-2/VAC-1 combo.

 My question is, of the 3 types of tubes offered by Decware with the CSP-2 (6N1P, 6DJ8 or 6922), which is going to provide the least culture shock in comparison to such a clean amp as the CIA VHP-2?

 I will move into tube rolling after a while, but I want to make sure I have a good comparison base to start with. My phones are Senn HD650 and AKG K702.

 I understand that the Russion made tubes aren't the best around, but they will be my baseline. All input appreciated.


----------



## Skylab

I'd go for a trio of JAN-Sylvania 6922's. Easy to get, not terribly expensive, and will last as long as you could ever want. They are excellent sounding, but not overly "Tubey".


----------



## markm1111

Double post


----------



## markm1111

Thanks Skylab. As for the tubes that come with the amp, I should also request the 6922's? Apparently you get a choice of the 3 types. Or should I pick one of the others to have an alternative, and get myself the 6922's you suggested?
 Cheers


----------



## Skylab

Do you get a choice in terms of what he sends you? I thought it was just a choice of what to use. But yeah, if you can choose what he sends you, have him send 6922's.

 Here is another tip - resist the temptation to use the "sexier" and more expensive rectifier tubes. The amp sounds best with a 5Y3. I like the older "coke bottle"/small "ST" shaped glass of the 5Y3G, but the 5Y3GT's sound just as good, are easy to get NOS, and cheap as dirt. You can get NOS, USA-made military 5Y3WTGA's for $15, and they are ridiculously good. Whereas a NOS 274B rectifier would cost about $600


----------



## markm1111

Thanks Skylab, that answers my questions perfectly.

 Now, just have to negotiate with the minister for finance to raid the bank account.....

 Cheers


----------



## fipple8

I almost sold my CSP2 (one of the first regular production models), but a couple of updates later--completely rewired with silver wire, current grounding scheme--I'm pretty sure that I'm going to keep this amp for a long time. I've gone back and forth between using a 5Y3G and a 5U4G (both NOS RCA) and prefer the latter, usually, with a trio of 6DJ8s. The 6DJ8s are nothing special: two mid-70s Amperex-made RCAs and a 60s made-in-USA Sylvania as the driver. Got them for about $4.00 a piece on eBay. The tubes are quiet and the sound they make is sweet, but with enough detail to make me happy, and with realistic vocal and instrumental timbres. 

 For a while, I also owned Steve's regular CSP and a "classic" Taboo; the CSP2 very much continues in the same mold. That is, I believe that it sounds really good no matter what kind of tubes you put into it. It's a well-designed, well-voiced, well-built amplifier. Kudos to Steve for designing so much gear around still cheap and plentiful Russian tubes. Get yourself some 6N1P-EVs made in the 80s, grab a matching Svetlana 5U4G, and live a Soviet fantasy, your own personal musical detente. Seriously, it's great that the CSP2 allows for so much experimentation and variation with tube-rolling, yet gives consistently good results.

 Btw, Steve will send you whichever type of tube you'd like. I got the JJ E88CC/6922s with mine. Not a very well-made tube, however. They were always arcing. I recommend the 6N1p-EVs to start with. They were manufactured like the missiles they were meant to ride in.


----------



## Skylab

Interesting - I also have gone back and forth (many times!) between the 5U4G and the 5Y3G. In the end I decided I preferred the 5Y3G, but it was close. Both sounds good, as you indicate.

 In the end the rectifier tube I liked the LEAST was the most expensive - the Sophia Princess mesh 274b. The sound with it was too sterile.


----------



## Who?

How is the synergy between a Beyerdynamic DT 990/600 and this amplifier?


----------



## Skylab

Excellent in my opinion.


----------



## fipple8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting - I also have gone back and forth (many times!) between the 5U4G and the 5Y3G. In the end I decided I preferred the 5Y3G, but it was close. Both sounds good, as you indicate.

 In the end the rectifier tube I liked the LEAST was the most expensive - the Sophia Princess mesh 274b. The sound with it was too sterile._

 

I bought a Sophia Electric Princess 274B (solid plate) because of some of your earlier comments!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I liked it, but only used it in the CSP2 for a few hours because the Sophia website warns that an amp's first stage cap should have a value of 10 MFD or less--the stock CSP2's is 33 MFD. So I may have Steve change the value one of these days, but for now I'm happy with the rectifiers I'm using. Lowering the cap value, btw, would not have any effect on the CSP2's sound, according to Steve.

 With my tube set and with my AKG 701 headphones, I find that the 5Y3G (or a GT, for that matter) gives me a balanced, slightly warm sound. The 5U4G, otoh, seems to result in more detail and high frequency extension, which I prefer. This result probably has a lot to do with my source, too, a Peter Daniel NOS dac connected to my computer with a Trends UD 10.1.

 I've used the CSP2 as a preamp, with a Decware Taboo and with a Virtue Audio TWO. In these setups, I preferred the the 5Y3G. I guess this makes sense when you consider the Taboo's sound is more solid state than "tubey" and that the TWO is a Tripath-based amp--a very nice sounding Tripath amp, but still a little lean to my ears. With both, the CSP2 improved the tone for me significantly.


----------



## Skylab

I'm glad I have a Sophia 274B stashed away - I'm sure it will sound great in some other amp I have down the road. It was just a little too brash in the CSP-2. Interesting about the cap mismatch - wasn't aware of that.


----------



## fipple8

It was an earlier exchange in this forum about the fate of an EML 274B mesh plate that got me thinking so I gave Sophia Electric a call. I was told that there's no danger of the tube failing in some spectacular manner with the mismatched cap, only the strong likelihood that the tube will die prematurely, with just a year of regular use, say, instead of five.


----------



## Skylab

One does have to wonder, though, if that is why we find the 5Y3G to sound better...


----------



## Duckman

Skylab, how does the Decware perform with the T1?


----------



## Skylab

Fabulously. The CSP-2 is terrific with all of the 600 ohm Beyers, and the T1 is no exception. The two sound great together, and prove that $800 is all you really have to spend to get terrific sound from the T1.

 One of the things I think is special about the CSP-2 is that I have yet to find a headphone that didn't sound good with it - it even musters good sound from the very-low impedance Denon D7000, which it technically should struggle with.


----------



## markm1111

I know its a little off topic, but as I am about to purchase a csp-2, I'd like to know where are the best places to by tubes from. I am in Australia, so currency conversion and shipping can make ebay not as attractive as an online store.

 Also, thanks Skylab for such a great thread and all of your other review threads - it has helped me enormously in working out what will best suit my needs


----------



## rivieraranch

One of my CSP2 units is having some trouble, crackling and fuzzy noises, especially when turning the trim pots at the rear. I eliminated tubes as being the culprit, so there is something wrong inside the unit. I am just sending it back to DECWARE for a look over. This is the great thing about the lifetime warranty. They will fix it if something happens. Not so with a lot of this other gear floating around.


----------



## mhamel

Skylab - Would you share some more impressions of the D7000 with the CSP-2? How is the low-end? I'll be ordering the D7000 in the next few weeks and will be looking for an amp to go along with it. I've been doing a ton of reading... narrowing choices down, but still going back-and-forth on a few things.

 In addition to the D7000, it would be sharing time with my Beyers (DT990/250).

 Thanks,
 -Mike


----------



## minimus

So, my Singlepower Extreme epoch seems to be coming to a disappointing end. I sent it to Bolder Cable last September, was told by Wayne that he could either throw the amp out for me or he could rebuild it from scratch. I chose to have him rebuild it but it was returned to me with an annoying tube hiss that wasn't present when it left my hands. My rebuilt Singlepower is back at Bolder, where Wayne is trying to lower the noise floor, but his silence on the matter in the last few weeks has me worried that the tube hiss is here to stay and that the amp is really now best suited for high impedance headphones, not the DX1000s I use.

 So now I am on the market for a new tube amp. I use the DX1000s exclusively and have narrowed my choices down to the CSP-2 and the Zana Deux. For some reason, Woo and RSA don't appeal to me, possibly because they seem expensive for what you get.

 Aside from the fact that the Zana Deux is about three times more expensive than the CSP-2, does anyone have any thoughts on the relative merits of these two amps before I pull the trigger on one of them? Is the CSP-2, with proper NOS tubes, going to sound as great with the DX1000s as the Singlepower Extreme did in its glory days? Or should I just shell out the extra cash and hope the Zana Deux is as good with the DX1000s as everyone says it is with Sennheisers and Grados? 

 Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markm1111* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know its a little off topic, but as I am about to purchase a csp-2, I'd like to know where are the best places to by tubes from. I am in Australia, so currency conversion and shipping can make ebay not as attractive as an online store.

 Also, thanks Skylab for such a great thread and all of your other review threads - it has helped me enormously in working out what will best suit my needs_

 

Thanks for your kind words 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can't help with where to get tubes in AUS, but you can get nice tubes at a great price from Antique Electronic Supply and Vacuum Tubes Radio Tubes - 5,000 different tubes in stock - Over 10 million tubes! - if you want the best of what either has to offer, you heed to call them, though.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mhamel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab - Would you share some more impressions of the D7000 with the CSP-2? How is the low-end? I'll be ordering the D7000 in the next few weeks and will be looking for an amp to go along with it. I've been doing a ton of reading... narrowing choices down, but still going back-and-forth on a few things.

 In addition to the D7000, it would be sharing time with my Beyers (DT990/250).

 Thanks,
 -Mike_

 

I know the CSP-2 really shouldn't be an ideal match for the D7000 due to the slightly high output impedance (it is specified as simply "less than 60 ohms"). But I find the CSP-2 and D7000 to sound excellent together. The low end is great (bot with my J$ Pads, not overpowering), and the mids don't seem even slightly recessed. The CSP-2 has a very extended treble but without any aggression, which suits the D7000 well.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *minimus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, my Singlepower Extreme epoch seems to be coming to a disappointing end. I sent it to Bolder Cable last September, was told by Wayne that he could either throw the amp out for me or he could rebuild it from scratch. I chose to have him rebuild it but it was returned to me with an annoying tube hiss that wasn't present when it left my hands. My rebuilt Singlepower is back at Bolder, where Wayne is trying to lower the noise floor, but his silence on the matter in the last few weeks has me worried that the tube hiss is here to stay and that the amp is really now best suited for high impedance headphones, not the DX1000s I use.

 So now I am on the market for a new tube amp. I use the DX1000s exclusively and have narrowed my choices down to the CSP-2 and the Zana Deux. For some reason, Woo and RSA don't appeal to me, possibly because they seem expensive for what you get.

 Aside from the fact that the Zana Deux is about three times more expensive than the CSP-2, does anyone have any thoughts on the relative merits of these two amps before I pull the trigger on one of them? Is the CSP-2, with proper NOS tubes, going to sound as great with the DX1000s as the Singlepower Extreme did in its glory days? Or should I just shell out the extra cash and hope the Zana Deux is as good with the DX1000s as everyone says it is with Sennheisers and Grados? 

 Any advice would be appreciated._

 

I have never heard the Zana with the DX1000, and while I always thought the Zana sounded great when I heard it at meets, I did not think it sounded any better than the CSP-2, although this was hardly a conclusive or thorough comparison.

 But what the CSP-2 really brings to the party is high-end tube sound at a reasonably price, IMO.


----------



## tdogzthmn

I heard this amp at a local meet-up and thought it sounded fantastic. I would like to know if anyone has tried it with a K702 and if it was an agreeable match. I think I am partial to the sound of tube amps and want a good one to pair with my K702.


----------



## davidross

Has anyone been using the ER 4S with the CSP2? At 100 ohms, the 4S' impedance is on the low side though not exceptionally low so I wonder whether this is a good match (I've become addicted to the ER 4 over several years of use and am now very much attracted to the CSP2).


----------



## jdmoorman

The ER4s works great with the CSP2 - the best my ER4s have ever sounded. Dreamy spacious detail. No hum - dead quiet in silent passages.


----------



## dukja

I am very interested in CSP-2 for my DT880/600. And happen to bump into another amp Trafomatic Experience Head One.

 I wonder anyone may help on the comparison of these two. I prefer a little distant soundstage presentation.

 Many thanks!

 Edit: Kees just point out my mis-understanding. So CSP-2 is OTL and Trafomatic is OPT. Still, I wonder if anyone have heard both of these. thanks!


----------



## dukja

@Skylab

 I would appreciate some comparison of CSP-2 and balanced Phoenix, especially on the soundstage presentation. I know it may not be fair comparison (SE vs bal). However, recently I realized that my preference on a little bit distant presentation. Phoenix's presentation is to my liking so I would like to use it as a reference line. 

 Also, how does the focusing (positioning of each instrument) capability of CSP-2 comparing to Phoenix?

 Many thanks for your help!


----------



## Skylab

I definitely would NOT define the CSP-2 as having a distant presentation. The CSP-2 is not a "tubey" tube amp - and it has a vividness to the midrange that I find very appealing, but that is definitely not "distant". The Phoenix is a bit dark; the CSP-2 is neither dark not bright, but does have a very slight richness to mids that gives the sound a little lushness, and this is not something I personally equate with "distant". I don't really think of the Phoenix as sounding exactly distant either, but it does have a bit of a darkness to the sound, and as such I certainly wouldn't describe it as "forward" sounding.

 I'm not sure if that really helped at all...


----------



## dukja

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I definitely would NOT define the CSP-2 as having a distant presentation. The CSP-2 is not a "tubey" tube amp - and it has a vividness to the midrange that I find very appealing, but that is definitely not "distant". The Phoenix is a bit dark; the CSP-2 is neither dark not bright, but does have a very slight richness to mids that gives the sound a little lushness, and this is not something I personally equate with "distant". I don't really think of the Phoenix as sounding exactly distant either, but it does have a bit of a darkness to the sound, and as such I certainly wouldn't describe it as "forward" sounding.

 I'm not sure if that really helped at all..._

 

Many thanks to your reply and impression, Skylab!

 But I probably did not express my self well (maybe use the wrong term), so please bear with me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The distance or position of the instruments was my question, not the frequency spectrum characteristic. For example, the saxophone may sound a little too close to me with my HP100 (do you call it forward?) and I found it is placed farther away from me with Phoenix, which I prefer (and I thought this is called "distant").

 And does CSP-2 put the main/solo instruments closer to the listener (comparing to Phoenix)? Or does tube amp generally do so comparing to SS? This will help me to decide which next amp I will get. 

 I'll appreciate your or others' further comments.


----------



## Skylab

Well that is something I would have to listen to carefully side by side to determine, as I had not thought to compare the two in that way before, and unfortunately I am not able to do that currently. I will try to compare the two in that way at some point in the future, but maybe someone else can comment.


----------



## dukja

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well that is something I would have to listen to carefully side by side to determine, as I had not thought to compare the two in that way before, and unfortunately I am not able to do that currently. I will try to compare the two in that way at some point in the future, but maybe someone else can comment._

 

Thank you for your help. I'll wait until you have some chance.

 HP100 is my home system and Phoenix is at my office. So it took me a while to realize that. It happened that saxophone in one song was a little too forward to me and triggered my intention to check.


----------



## Duckman

Skylab, I wonder if you might comment on the bass of the CSP2 through the T1. I'm fairly interested in trying this amp, but was just a bit doubtful when you mentioned that the bass of the CSP2 was a little less controlled than your Singlepower. The T1 seem to have a very slight bass emphasis, and I wondered if the two may not be perfectly suited.

 BTW I also believe that, in all probability, my doubts are not justified


----------



## Skylab

I've used the T1 extensively with the CSP-2 and with my (modified/repaired) SP Extreme, and the bass presentation is pretty similar, actually. The CSP-2 sounds excellent with the T1 IMHO (using Mullard 2492's and a Sylvania 5Y3G).


----------



## Duckman

Thanks for that reassurance.

 Would it be possible for someone to elaborate on the detail levels? My SPL Auditor gives a tremendous amount of ambient information and throws a very wide soundstage, which is excellent for acoustic recordings. I wonder how the CSP2 fares in this area. 

 I've noticed that those Mullards are around $130 each at tubedepot. Is that their real value?


----------



## Skylab

I find the CSP-2 to be excellent in detail retrieval - better actually than any tube amp I own in that one regard except for the Leben CS300X.

 And no, $130 each is crazy for the CV2492. I got mine absolutely NOS for $40 each - reasonable for any quality 6DJ8/6922 type tube. But you will have to "poke around" to find them at that price.


----------



## dukja

I am just about to pull the trigger on this one. Only hesitating on the tube to choose in stock. Steve mentioned that the default 6N1P may be more forgiving in the burn-in period (so we can hold down to in until 30-day trial 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). And if I choose 6DJ8 or 6922, then it will be JJ and Sovtek. 

 I appreciate Steve's concern, but if I would like to get good detail and well focused soundstage, would JJ 6DJ8 or Sovtek 6922 be a good choice? I learned some basic SQ characteristic of those tubes but not sure the brands are good choice (since Skylab mention unfavorable Russian tube to his experience)

 Many thanks for your prompt reply!


----------



## Duckman

One last question (for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




): anyone with experience listening to Grados through the CSP2? Good match?


----------



## stoutblock

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dukja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am just about to pull the trigger on this one. Only hesitating on the tube to choose in stock. Steve mentioned that the default 6N1P may be more forgiving in the burn-in period (so we can hold down to in until 30-day trial 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). And if I choose 6DJ8 or 6922, then it will be JJ and Sovtek. 

 I appreciate Steve's concern, but if I would like to get good detail and well focused soundstage, would JJ 6DJ8 or Sovtek 6922 be a good choice? I learned some basic SQ characteristic of those tubes but not sure the brands are good choice (since Skylab mention unfavorable Russian tube to his experience)

 Many thanks for your prompt reply!_

 

I don't think you can go wrong with the CSP2 amp. Skylab talked me into buying one (along with some Beyerdynamic DT880/600 HPs) several months back and I've been very pleased. No matter what tubes Steve sends, you will need to roll some other 6DJ8/6922/7308 tubes until you get the sound you like. My favorite are the Mullard CV2493 but Bugle Boys also spend many hours installed.

 The Sovtek 6922 is a consistent, stable and reliable tube that should last for years as a good backup. I have not had as good of luck with the JJ tubes although they may sound better than the Sovtek.

 Recently I started to use the CSP2 as a preamp for a Tripath TA2022 amplifier driving a couple of ADS 300e speakers in my office. The adjustable output voltage on the pre allowed a perfect match to the power amplifier and I am very pleased with this combination.


----------



## dukja

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stoutblock* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My favorite are the Mullard CV2493 but Bugle Boys also spend many hours installed.

 The Sovtek 6922 is a consistent, stable and reliable tube that should last for years as a good backup. I have not had as good of luck with the JJ tubes although they may sound better than the Sovtek.

 Recently I started to use the CSP2 as a preamp for a Tripath TA2022 amplifier driving a couple of ADS 300e speakers in my office._

 

Thanks to your reply. And I have done long reading on many possible tube amps here. So I am quite confident on this choice for good performance/cost ratio with my high-Z phones. Will post my impression of it with my other amps and DACs. And thanks to your impress on speaker setup.

 I certainly will roll tubes but just try to avoid some tubes that I may rule out by some common sense. Some issue reported by fipple8 is one.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fipple8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, Steve will send you whichever type of tube you'd like. I got the JJ E88CC/6922s with mine. Not a very well-made tube, however. They were always arcing. I recommend the 6N1p-EVs to start with. They were manufactured like the missiles they were meant to ride in._

 

And I heard 6N1P has "forgiving" sound, which may be nice during amp's burn-in period, but that was not the SQ I am looking for.

 I am leaning toward to Sovtek 6922 but would like to hear some impression from those who gets that in stock. I'll go get other recommended tubes from other source later.

 So anyone had good experience with stock tube (drive & rectifier) with the SQ (detail/clean, focused soundstage with right standoff distance from me)?


----------



## dukja

It seems everyone has enjoyed their CSP2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My order is in and now I am trying to get tube to roll 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (yes, I had high hope on it).

 For rectifier tube: Skylab has reported good tubes such as Mullard 5U4G. I saw some sylvania 5u4GB and some from RCA and GE. Will that "GB" also work for CSP2? And how about those brands (sylvania, RCA, GE)?

 And I read in some post Sophia Princess 274B for CSP2 seems to be good, but then Skylab also referred Mullard 5U4G is comparable. Are these two expensive ones improve sound quite a bit? And do they need adapter for CSP2?

 many thanks for your help!


----------



## Skylab

After much experimentation, I actually think the 5Y3 variants (5Y3G, 5Y3GT, 5Y3WGT) are the best choice for the CSP-2. This is actually the tube that Steve Deckert designed the amp for, and it performs best with this tube, IMO.


----------



## dukja

Skylab, thanks a lot for your input. That seems to be good news since there are plenty of them around and cheap! I saw good report with RCA and Sylvania here.

 Thanks again!


----------



## Skylab

Yep, it actually IS good news, for the exact reason you state - the 5Y3 is a easy to get, cheap tube. I like the small coke-bottle shaped 5Y3G the best - I'm using a WWII era Sylvania - super nice sounding.


----------



## Br777

i want one of these so much! and i also want... duh duh duh duuuuuuuH!

 the decware dac!!

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/dec...ac-1-a-480855/

Audiophile Tube Amps and Tube Gear from DECWARE


----------



## dukja

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, it actually IS good news, for the exact reason you state - the 5Y3 is a easy to get, cheap tube. I like the small coke-bottle shaped 5Y3G the best - I'm using a WWII era Sylvania - super nice sounding._

 

Anyone can help me to realize the difference between 5Y3G, GT, WGTA? Are they all usable for CSP2? 

 Thanks!


----------



## fipple8

All are usable in the CSP2; no appreciable electrical difference between them. The G is the older coke-bottle shape. The GT and WGTA are shorter, straight-sided tubes. The WGTA is also a military spec version. Which sounds best? That's a decision for your own ears to make. Which LOOKS best? The G version, absolutely!

 Unlike Skylab, I still prefer the 5U4G rectifier over the 5Y3G or GT with my CSP2, currently a 1959 Svetlana; beautiful tube.


----------



## dukja

Thanks for the explanation. I can see the same relationship between G, GT/B/W?? and their shape and designated application for both 5U4 and 5Y3. So it seems the ST or coke/shoulder shape ones are the earlier version. They are visually more interesting and rare (older?)


----------



## feurkils

Anyone have experience using this amp with AKG 702's? There have been many posts about similar, lower impedance headphones, but I was wondering if there was any direct comparisons done with this amp and those phones.


----------



## dukja

My CSP2 is coming soon and I am getting tubes ready to roll. According to Steve, the front tube (of the three 6DJ8/6922) is the input stage and has most impact on the sound. The two at the back are the output stage for impedance match.

 So it seems that it make sense to spend premium for the front tube and lesser on the back two and I don't need to have three same type, right?

 And any of you have real life experience on using the same tubes for all three versus one best and two lesser ones?

 Many thanks!


----------



## Skylab

Well I have always used the same tube in all 3 positions, but I understand what Steve is saying.


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have always used the same tube in all 3 positions, but I understand what Steve is saying._

 

Skylab do you know if this can be made with two inputs and a sub mono output. I am thinking of getting one to run with my Outlaw 2150 driving my Maggie MMG andd sub. I use two players as a source one redbook cd player and a SACD player.


----------



## Skylab

No clue. But ask Steve - he's pretty responsive.


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No clue. But ask Steve - he's pretty responsive._

 

thanks


----------



## datura647

My CSP-2 should arrive on Thursday. I'll be sure to post my impressions after lots of listening. I've never hit F5 on the UPS tracking page this many times before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Frank I:
 The amp has 2 stereo inputs, 1 stereo output and a mono out for a sub. Is this what you're asking? My plans are to feed one input with my record player and the other with my DAC hooked up to my various digital sources. I don't currently have a sub but that mono-out won't be lonely for long


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *datura647* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My CSP-2 should arrive on Thursday. I'll be sure to post my impressions after lots of listening. I've never hit F5 on the UPS tracking page this many times before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Frank I:
 The amp has 2 stereo inputs, 1 stereo output and a mono out for a sub. Is this what you're asking? My plans are to feed one input with my record player and the other with my DAC hooked up to my various digital sources. I don't currently have a sub but that mono-out won't be lonely for long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Exactly what I am looking for. I want to use it as a preamp for my Outlaw 2150 and be able to hook up a sacd and cd player with a mono sub for my Outlaw sub. This is what I was hoping for.


----------



## davidross

Has anyone compared the CSP-2 to an EC Zana Deux? In design and price, these are very different amps but I wonder how close they might be in performance.


----------



## Who?

Just picked up 3 NOS Mullard CV2492's Gold Pin versions for my CSP2 for 60 bucks! I hope I'll like em! Think I will keep this amp for a little while


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Who?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just picked up 3 NOS Mullard CV2492's Gold Pin versions for my CSP2 for 60 bucks! I hope I'll like em! Think I will keep this amp for a little while 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

NICE - that's a great price on those, and they sound great in the CSP-2.


----------



## Who?

That's what I thought as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You know I couldn't pass on these tubes... I am already pleased to own and use this amp, it can only get better!


----------



## dukja

CSP-2 just arrived after 5-week of waiting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Out of box with 6N1P and Raytheon 5U4G, it sound very smooth and nice.  I was surprised by its voltage gain.  I can only turn to about 8 o'clock with DT880/600.
   
  Then, I just cannot wait longer and switch to Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8.  The clarity and sound decay has been improved and still remind quite nice texture.  I can see CSP-2 has very good potential as it burnt in.  Comparing to Phoenix, the soundstage is closer and decay is a little bit less.  The width of the soundstage is narrow.  This may mainly due to the SE vs Balanced connection.  Also, CSP-2 can only use the RCA connection with REF-1, which has much less SNR comparing to ASCC connection.  So even with such unfair sourcing situation,  CSP-2 still shines well.  Very promising.
   
  The only thing bothers me is that the voltage gain seems to be very high.  I can only use about 5~10% (7~8 o'clock) position of the pot.  Can any one verify that?  I thought those are not the optimal position for a volume pot.


----------



## Skylab

My normal listening with DX1000 is at the 9:00 position.  That produces average levels of 80dBA (again, with my source, and the DX1000).  If your source has a high output level, I can see how that might be an issue.  I have found the pot to be pretty linear, though.  The only problem with the lower end of a pot is that some pots don't have good channel balance in the lower range.  I have not seen that with the CSP-2.


----------



## fipple8

Congrats on getting your CSP2, dukja. Depending on the recording, my Peter Daniel dac's output generally has me setting volume somewhere between 9 o'clock and 11 o'clock with AKG K 701 headphones.


----------



## dukja

@fipple8
   
  I actually has Peter's NOS DAC in the past and I knew its output is at normal (2V?) range.  My recent DAC such as DLIII and Ref-1 both have 2.5V output  That may be part of the reason.  I also send out a mail to Steve to see if we can get the gain tune down if I ever send CSP-2 back for step attenuator in the future.  Will post back his reply!
   
  And I guess this gain issue may not be address with different tubes?


----------



## fipple8

Amazing what .5V will do, huh?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Steve is definitely the guy to ask here, especially about lower gain tubes to sub for the 6DJ8 family the amp is designed for. A few years ago, I needed a little more gain from a fi Yph phono pre and Don Garber sent me a pair of 6JK8 tubes. It worked, but I didn't like the sound much. A change in source, in this case a higher output cartridge, was a much better solution for me.


----------



## markm1111

Hmm, 5 weeks wait...
   
  I finally ordered mine after much deliberation just over a week ago - so another 4 weeks! Damn, but as the saying, all good things come to those who wait...
   
  I also scored a Transporter at a great price to have a one box solution to my current Squeezebox, linear psu, CIAudio dac and psu, and Burson buffer. Adding the CSP-2 into the mix was just going to create chaos. I'm hoping that the Transporter's ability to select attenuation on the single ended outputs will allow me to play with the settings enough to be able to have a greater range on the CSP-2 pot.
   
  Anyway, will eventually post my thoughts when I get it all together - the wait continues.


----------



## Who?

I had to wait 6 or 7 weeks but you won't be dissapointed. Just received a NOS Sylvania 5Y3WGTA and put it in for a quick listen. Still waiting for my Mullard CV2492's though... Think I will be even more satisfied when those arrive!


----------



## dukja

Today I switched to Jan 6922 and the sound is tuned to much of my liking (using Phoenix as the baseline).  While Amperex BB 6DJ8 sounds smooth, 6922 seems to have "harder" and sharper note envelope which sounds great especially for some classical guitar music.  Thanks to your previous posts, I had feeling that 6922 will suit my music genre and it is right!  This is the reason I would like to have a tube amp - now I can play with sound with tube rolling.
   
  While some gave high praise to CSP-2 over Phoenix in SE mode, I just compare them in SE connection with DT880/600.  I found Phoneix still gave me some advantages such as wider soundstage, deeper and more solid base, the clarity is better.  However, Phoenix takes balanced ASCC input from Ref-1, which has 8dB advantage in SNR and better channel separation.  This may be one major reason for Phoenix to excel.
   
  Does anyone find some rectifier tube further improves the clarity, soundstage, or bass?  Thanks!!
   
  Before I switched to tri-6922, I did tried front 6922 and two back 6DJ8 and I have heard the sound change from 6922, which confirmed that the front tube has major SQ effect.
   
  And CSP-2 is sill burning in... (about 8 hours)
   
  Edit:
  After some more comparison between CSP-2 and Phoenix, I still much prefer the dynamic and clarity of Phoenix with ASCC.  Finally, I use RCA input to Phoenix.  And this shows the "truth": Phoenix does benefit significantly from the balanced ASCC input. If the SE RCA input was used for both, CSP-2 now sounds at the same league to Phoenix in terms of the dynamic, soundstage, and clarity.   I am happy to find out that CSP-2 is good enough for SE input.  And I appreciate the power of Phoenix and Ref-1 combo even further.  Such thing only shows with close competition.


----------



## dukja

After several days of burn in, CSP-2 now sounds more clear.  Unfortunately, it is moved to home so I can not compare it with Phoenix directly. 
   
  When compare it with HP100, CSP-2 does have better clarity, especially with 6922 tubes.  6DJ8 makes the sound a little bit too soft to me.  The impact and crispness is better with 6922.  The soundstage is very spacious and well focused.  And the SQ change is quite effective by just tube rolling the front tube only. 
   
  In the past, I thought HP100's soundstage is too close.  Now I learned that CSP-2 has even closer soundstage.  However, due to its high clarity it does not cause a problem to me.  This is new to me.  It is very interesting and enjoyable to compare these two nice amp (and even more fun with the different mix with DA100 and DLIII.  They have each own strength with quite different sonic presentation. And direct comparison helps me to appreciate their own strength.


----------



## stoutblock

My dad is quite a pack rat and it never ceases to amaze me how much junk he has.  He has 5 buildings full of stuff on his farm.  I was up there last weekend and we started talking about audio.  He said he had an old Magnavox consol stashed in one of his buildings.  We checked it out and it sure is an old one and in really bad shape but I noticed it has some tubes,  (2) RCA 6L6G and (1) Sylvania 5U4G.  I nabbed them and took them home and they check quite strong!
  Put the Sylvania in the CSP2 and man what a sweet sound!  Lucky day!


----------



## Skylab

Nice find!  The Sylvania 5U4G is a nice tube - I have a couple.


----------



## stoutblock

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Nice find!  The Sylvania 5U4G is a nice tube - I have a couple.


 


 If I remember right your prefer the Sylvania 5Y3?  As I have never tried a 5Y3 is the difference worth it?


----------



## Skylab

I did end up preferring the 5Y3G, yes.  But the Sylvania 5U4G was my second favorite.  I had some problems with some of the other tube types I tried - I would always use one of or the other of those - 5U4G or 5Y3G.  I was using a 5R4GBY for a while, which would make the 6DJ8's arc slightly on warm-up...not good.  And the Princess 274B worked OK but I thought it made the amp bright.


----------



## dukja

I have Sylvania and Raytheon 5U4G and it seems to me that Sylvania is a little bit "brighter" and Raytheon softer in comparison.  With Jan Philip 6922, Raytheon seems to have better synergy.


----------



## Br777

im almost certainly going to buy this amp for use with my new ATH-W1000X once i save up a bit more money.  I'm just being drawn uncontrollably to it.
   
  it will be nice to see if i can find some tubes that tone down the sibilant highs of the 1000x's 
   
  can anyone tell me what difference the stepped volume attenuator makes?  I have no knowledge of such things, and $250 certainly is a hefty chunk of change for a volume knob upgrade.
   
  thanks


----------



## dukja

The more I listen to CSP-2, the better I start to get hold of its strength.  One of them is great transparency and details.  CSP-2 let me hear the source difference clearly.  I had DLIII and DA100 for a long time but always had hard time to tell the major difference between them.  They sounded different but I didn't get a good grasp of the difference.  CSP-2 now let me clearly hear the different presentation of the soundstage.  This makes me appreciate both of them, and certainly CSP-2, even more.
  Quote: 





br777 said:


> it will be nice to see if i can find some tubes that tone down the sibilant highs of the 1000x's
> 
> can anyone tell me what difference the stepped volume attenuator makes?  I have no knowledge of such things, and $250 certainly is a hefty chunk of change for a volume knob upgrade.


 
   
  To my limited experience, 6DJ8 is smoother (not my preference) than 6922 and 6N1P may be even more so since Steve recommended new owner to use it during burn in to smooth out.  I probably only listen to 6N1P and 6DJ8 for only a few hours and quickly converged to 6922 which is right to my liking.
   
  I am also interested in stepped attenuator.  From what I gather from the posts, it provides much better SNR (lower noise) and less channel imbalance.  Since the default gain setting for me is way too high, I would like to use the chance of upgrading to reduce the gain.  For DT880/600 or T1 users, it may be a good idea to mention that to Steve when you order CSP-2.
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## dukja

Some communication with Steve about the gain issue.  He mentioned about that it can be easily fixed by changing the gain and actually he is thinking of implementing a gain switch when I ship the CSP-2 back to him.  What a great service!  Now I just wait for my vacation to come and then ship it so I don't miss CSP-2 too much.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Today I brought CSP-2 back to office and had direct comparison with Phoenix again using recabled DT880/600.  Ref-1 was the source with ACSS cable to Phoenix and RCA to CSP-2.  What I found was:
  * Phoenix with balanced connection has better 3D definition.  The depth of the instrument itself (not the location) is even perceivable!  The width of the soundstage was also much larger.  But the soundstage definition was less so with SE connection.
   
  * CSP-2 with SE connection has narrower soundstage due to the limitation of SE.  However, the clarity, refinement, and focus is pretty good comparing to even balanced Phoenix.  I have no problem switch from Phoenix to CSP-2 with my current tubes (very SS-like SQ).  It may be just slightly less transparent and airy than the balanced Phoenix.  It actually may be a little bit better than SE Phoenix in those characters.
   
  * I have an old CD recording the very unique Kalvins Mod 370 piano's sound.  I have never appreciate it appropriately.  CSP-2 reveals a very interesting low freq. texture of this piano's sound that I have never noticed before.  It is very solid and crispy vibration of the string and I was totally amazed when I first heard it with CSP-2.
   
  Balanced Phoenix still hold its own place due to the advantage on ACSS input and balanced output.  I am still very impressed with its high resolution, vivid, and realistic sonic imaging after long long time of ownership.  However, I am very happy with CSP-2.  Actually, after acquiring CSP-2, this is the first time that I don't miss my office rig when I get off work since CSP-2 is waiting for me at home.
   
  My current tubes are Jan Philip 6922 and Raytheon 5G4U.  I wonder anyone has tube recommendation for improvement on transparency and sonic focusing.  I am considering some Tesla E88CC, Tunsgram red labeled E88CC, Amperex 6922.  Some mentioned Jan Sylvania 6922 may be better than Philip.  Is it right?
   
  And I had Tung-sol 5Y3GT coming.  Will report it back later.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

There is just something magical about a good tube amp that SS can't compete with (IMO at least). I find myself struggling to not buy a full fledged balanced tube amp because if I do it'll be a tube binge extraordinaire for me after that....those damn glowing bulbs are hard to resist and I need to spend money on another octet of EL34's for my current tube amp rather than forking over for another tube amp (for the cans).
   
  That being said no reason you can't enjoy both setups equally for what they bring to the table. Congrats on the amp score dukja !
   
  Peete.


----------



## pyramid6

Is gain the same as volume?  Or what controls the volume?  I still think mine is far too loud.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Is gain the same as volume?  Or what controls the volume?  I still think mine is far too loud.


 

 Gain is fixed (by the amp designer to accommodate a wide range of headphone impedance/efficiency spec) while the vol pot adjusts how much of that set level signal is fed through the amp (from full attenuation, vol pot fully counterclockwise to full output, fully clockwise). If an amp's gain level is say 2db that means it's 2db above unity gain IIRC. Some amps you can adjust the gain on the fly which makes better use of the vol pot's range (for low efficiency cans you want high gain and for high efficiency cans you want lower gain).
   
  I hope that helped you understand the difference.
   
  Peete.


----------



## dukja

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> There is just something magical about a good tube amp that SS can't compete with (IMO at least). I find myself struggling to not buy a full fledged balanced tube amp because if I do it'll be a tube binge extraordinaire for me after that....those damn glowing bulbs are hard to resist and I need to spend money on another octet of EL34's for my current tube amp rather than forking over for another tube amp (for the cans).
> 
> That being said no reason you can't enjoy both setups equally for what they bring to the table. Congrats on the amp score dukja !
> 
> Peete.


 
   
  Same here.  I have been struggling and debating on some balanced tube amps.  They are either outside my budget (factoring in good tubes) or not taking in balanced input.  I wish there is a tube counterpart of Audio-gd.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  
  And doubled number of tubes that need to be acquired for the cost of being balanced isn't helping.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  That was the reason why I finally plunged for a SET tube amp as a test to see if other magic factors (with high Z phones) may help so SE tube amp can compete for some head time with balanced SS one.  CSP-2 may well be the case.


----------



## dukja

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Is gain the same as volume?  Or what controls the volume?  I still think mine is far too loud.


 

 Peete has explained it well.  It seems many users has the same feedback.  You may want to contact Steve for some good solution.  The only down side is that you need to part with CSP-2 for a few days.  Steve promised me for very quick turnaround time.  I really like his high priority with existing users.  That is not usually seen.


----------



## pyramid6

Thanks for the explanation.
   
  I've already sent it back once, for the pot being imbalanced at low levels.  The imbalance is better, but there is no control over the volume.  It's ether loud or off.  Is there anyway to reduce the gain without sending it back?  Can I reduce the output out of the DAC without affecting sound quality?  Maybe with resistors?


----------



## Skylab

What headphones are you using it with?  And which tubes exactly?
   
  This has not been an issue for me.  I use mine between 9:00 and 10:00 on the volume pot.  Where is yours, typically?


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





skylab said:


> What headphones are you using it with?  And which tubes exactly?
> 
> This has not been an issue for me.  I use mine between 9:00 and 10:00 on the volume pot.  Where is yours, typically?


 
   
  If I'm not mistaken, in your reviews you set your output to 70dB.  I sometimes like to listen at less than 50dB.  I'm using the T1.  I have 6922s and a 5U4G.  Do other tubes have less gain/volume?
    
  The thing is, I really like the amp.  It's just hard to get to volume where I like it.


----------



## dukja

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> If I'm not mistaken, in your reviews you set your output to 70dB.  I sometimes like to listen at less than 50dB.  I'm using the T1.  I have 6922s and a 5U4G.  Do other tubes have less gain/volume?


 
   
  My listening level is about 70 dB (median number) and my phone is DT880/600 stock.  Tubes are the same with you.  I can use about 10% of the total range.  There is definitely channel imbalance at 50 dB (lower pot setting than my current one).  When I use DT880/250.  I have to further turn down the volume which will be in the "imbalanced zone". 
   
  And certainly, the signal strength determined by your music recording level.  Most of my classical music has much lower peak level and I can turn to about 9 o'clock.  The problem usually happens with recent hot recording with non-classical content (pop music)
   
  I think it is worthy to check with Steve about adding on gain switch setting for your current and future phones.  I will be sending mine soon.  Let me know your progress if you decide to do it, please. 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> If I'm not mistaken, in your reviews you set your output to 70dB.  I sometimes like to listen at less than 50dB.  I'm using the T1.  I have 6922s and a 5U4G.  Do other tubes have less gain/volume?


 
   
  Yes - I listen between 70-80dB.  The ambient noise in my office is about 60dB (which isn't very high by the way).  And no, there are not other tube options - if anything the 6DJ8 might make things slightly worse since it has a very slightly higher transconductance.  If you really like 50 dB (or anything that soft), you will for sure have to lower the gain.


----------



## pyramid6

I'm going to do what dukja is going to do: get a gain switch and the stepped attenuator.
  I might try a different DAC and see if maybe one with a lower voltage helps.  I'm going to wait a few weeks before I send it back.


----------



## Canuck57

@ Skylab
   
  The following is a quote from the summary of the CSP2 review.
   
_The CSP2 is a truly excellent headphone amp. In fact, of the tube headphone amps I already have, the CSP2 is better than the WA3, the Ming Da 84-C 07, and the TNS Sweet 2. I felt the Darkvoice 337 and SP Extreme *were a little more to my personal liking, *but only VERY slightly... _
   
  In your ranking of tube amps., you listed the CSP2 at #4 and the DV337 at #5.
   
  So are you saying the CSP2 is a better amp., however, the DV337 is more to your liking? Please elaborate. Are they very close performance wise....splitting hairs?
   
  Thanks (just seeking clarification).
   
  I'm thinking about acquiring the CSP2 and wondering what it would add vs. the DV337. Also thinking about getting the Concerto...and if the Concerto would be a better buy since I have the DV337 already.


----------



## Skylab

I should change that in the review.  They are very close, but some tube rolling, and my mind changed, I slightly prefer the CSP-2 over the DV337 (and as such, I sold the 337).


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





dukja said:


> @fipple8
> 
> I actually has Peter's NOS DAC in the past and I knew its output is at normal (2V?) range.  My recent DAC such as DLIII and Ref-1 both have 2.5V output  That may be part of the reason.  I also send out a mail to Steve to see if we can get the gain tune down if I ever send CSP-2 back for step attenuator in the future.  Will post back his reply!
> 
> And I guess this gain issue may not be address with different tubes?


 
   
  Hi dukja,
   
  I'm a bit curious, isn't a line out standard output is about 600mv to 1V? while 600mv is mostly from portables like iPod.  I can be wrong.


----------



## Skylab

CD Players standard is 2V.


----------



## pyramid6

Ironiclly, the only DAC I could find at less then 2V is Decware's Z-DAC at 1.75V.
   
  Are there any good DAC with lower output?
   
  Edit: Don't care about price as it's more for discussion.


----------



## dukja

Quote: 





redbull said:


> I'm a bit curious, isn't a line out standard output is about 600mv to 1V? while 600mv is mostly from portables like iPod.  I can be wrong.


 
   
  As Skylab mentioned, most desktop size DAC has output 2~2.5V.  Peter's NOS DAC actually may have lower than 2V (sounds lower level than V-DAC).
   
  And I can clearly hear the volume change from DLIII (2.5V) to DA100 (2V, I guess).
   
  I just send it my CSP-2 for either lowered gain or gain switch, depending on Steve's testing.  Will report back later.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





dukja said:


> As Skylab mentioned, most desktop size DAC has output 2~2.5V.  Peter's NOS DAC actually may have lower than 2V (sounds lower level than V-DAC).
> 
> And I can clearly hear the volume change from DLIII (2.5V) to DA100 (2V, I guess).
> 
> I just send it my CSP-2 for either lowered gain or gain switch, depending on Steve's testing.  Will report back later.


 
  Are you getting the stepped attenuator as well?  Please let us know how it turns out when you get it back.


----------



## sberamji

*Skylab please help - Decware csp-2 tube suggestions!*
   
  Sky, I need your help. I have ordered a Decware csp-2 amp and it should arrive in two weeks. I do not want to spend a lot on tubes (<$100). Which tubes (brand and model) do you recommend for the csp2 as the best sounding tubes at this price? Also where can I source them? Should I stick with the stock rectifier tube or do I need to change that as well?
   
  Second question - I have a choice in headphones - I can stick with my Beyer DT880 600ohm headphones or replace them with a Beyer T1. Is the T1 really that BIG a step up from the Beyers DT880 and is it really worth spending $1000+? According to you which is the best sounding headphone below $600 (to be used with the csp-2). I like the balanced sound of the dt880's.
   
  Third request - how long did you burn in the csp-2? Can I just leave the amp on with no signal playing through as a burn in measure or do I need to have a source playing music connected to the csp-2 as well?
   
  Thanks,
   
  SB


----------



## Skylab

I think that in the price range, the JAN Sylvania 6DJ8 is a good choice.  They are $20 each.  And if you can get a Sylvania 5Y3WGT, that is better than the stock rectifier.
   
  Burn in was negligible.  20 hours maybe?
   
  And yes, the T1 is that much better - but you can always upgrade to that later.


----------



## sberamji

Thanks Skylab, Do you prefer the CSP-2 with the T1 or the Audez? Both headphones are similarly priced but your review of the Audez did say that the CSP-2 does not bring out the best from the Audez. Hence was curious.


----------



## Skylab

The T1 is a better match for the CSP-2 for sure.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





skylab said:


> CD Players standard is 2V.


 

 Ah ok, thanks Skylab.


----------



## markm1111

Well, my CSP-2 finally arrived. Fantastic packaging for the long trip to Oz. Much more substantial out of the box than I expected. Have been caught up with kids over the weekend so haven't had a chance to crank it up, but definitely looking forward to it.


----------



## markm1111

Had a good look at it last night. Steve incorporated a variable gain switch for me for headphone listening, so he definitely takes notice of his feedback.
   
  Now, to crank this baby up!


----------



## dukja

Nice!  I though I will be the first one to get this "variable input level" version.
   
  The existing CSP-2 design has variable input level adjustment for preamp output but not headphone.  I have been told that mine (shipping back to Steve for gain reset) will have the new layout.
   
  Just double check with you.  Did yours have variable "gain" or variable "input level"?  And what's your impression so far.  Mine should be shipped today...
   
  Thanks!


----------



## markm1111

I believe it has variable gain and variable input, but have not been able to crank it up as yet. Will hopefully be this weekend. I asked Steve about the ability to adjust gain after reading your posts, and I believe he has incorporated it as a result. The adjustment is via a knob placed between the mono line out and the headphone jack. The variable input level for the pre-amp out is still the two adjustment points near the trasnformer.
   
  I will certainly provide my thoughts once I have had a decent listen to it.
  
  Quote: 





dukja said:


> Nice!  I though I will be the first one to get this "variable input level" version.
> 
> The existing CSP-2 design has variable input level adjustment for preamp output but not headphone.  I have been told that mine (shipping back to Steve for gain reset) will have the new layout.
> 
> ...


----------



## dukja

Mine was back there for gain adjustment, and Steve mentioned adjustable gain originally.  But later he mentioned another totally different layout with adjustable "input level" that make more sense to him.  And according to Steve there is sonic improvement on this new layout.  The DAC ior CD input signal level can be adjusted so the volume pot may be used in optimal position.  So instead of modding mine, I pay some extra to get this new version of CSP-2.
   
  Is yours the same case?  Mine should be on its way back.  I'll post back later to compare with your impression.


----------



## markm1111

Just checked the original email where Steve mentioned the change. He called it an "adjustable input gain" - do you think this is the same as you are referring to?
   
  There was quite a delay on the manufacture of mine, and the Aussie dollar tanked, so I think he took pity on me.
   
  I will check with him exactly what the implementaiton is


----------



## dukja

Finally, my new CSP-2 (or +2) has come back.  This new layout has a pair of new trim pots close to the input RCA so that the Headphone output can be adjusted by the combination of volume pot and these input pots.  With this new feature, I can easily find a good trim pot setting and use the volume pot between 9 to 12 o'clock.  And the trim pots has those "clicks" that it is easy to match both channels.  It works out great.
   
  According to Steve, there is also some sonic change.  Since my unit is a totally new one (not a modified one), it might take some burn in.  Still out of box, I can hear more opened soundstage with deeper depth and the focusing is still excellent.  Bass has even a little more volume and impact than Phoenix (both use Ref-1 as DAC).  I think Steve did a great revision and am pretty happy with this new CSP2.


----------



## Skylab

Cool!  I might need to send mine in to get modded...


----------



## pyramid6

Did you get a stepped attenuator? or is it the standard volume pot?  I'm thinking of getting mine changed and was wondering if the stepped attenuator is worth it.


----------



## dukja

I did not get step attenuator.
   
  Some advice about not using step attenuator due to digitized setting may be less of the issue since now you got a combination.  This is too late for me since this reasoning just came to me.


----------



## dukja

I got some good deal on Tesla E88CC and they arrived during the time my CSP-2 was out. Swapping between Jan Philips 6922 and I like what I heard so far.  Tesla sounded smoother but still retained good details.  Philips 6922 on the other hand has more "hard" sounding, which was pleasing for some instrument music but may be slightly harsh for some bright recording.  Very good complement for my music.
   
  I also got some 5Y3GT but did not strike me with any apparent SQ change comparing to Raytheon 5U4G.  But there's too much change for today.  Maybe the difference will surface up later.


----------



## dukja

Spending some more time with this new CSP2+ (BTW, this is the name Steve put on for now) switching back to Raytheon 5U4G and Jan Philips 6922.  After listening to the Best of Kitaro, I was totally amazed by the clarity and depth of CSP2+.  I have never remember such great sonic definition from my old CSP2.  In fact, I just did a quick switch to Phoenix (balanced) and realize that the now CSP2+ even sets up the stage a little farther than Phoenix (which is opposite to what I heard from CSP2).  But the most striking part is how realistic the sonic view is.  
   
  To me, one of the most pleasing part of my music listening is to "see" those acoustic images and to enjoy their sonic texture. And the realistic part of CSP2+ is surprising me.
   
  And the impact and dynamic range has also grown out of old CSP2.  I have been startled by some drum beats that I never expect to be that impactful...  It is interesting to me.


----------



## dukja

I have compared CSP2+ with Phoenix a little bit more.  The definition of the soundstage are quite comparable, which is great and exactly fulfill the goal of my seeking.  I just discovered that the rectifier tube also has quite SQ impact.  The Raytheon 5U4G has richer sound but also lose some speed and control in the bass region.  The large drum sounds more "elastic" with Phoenix.  When I switch to Tung-sol 5Y3GT, the speed and control gained some back, but it also lost some richness of the sound.  Very interesting.  I am not sure which one is closer to the neutral and need more time to appreciate Tung-sol.
   
  Also, interestingly 5Y3GT seems to give more gain and sounds louder than 5U4G.  I wonder if anyone familiar with the spec can explain it.  Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

Interesting findings.  I agree about the general sonic differences between the 5Y3GT and the 5U4G you described.  No clue about what might cause the gain difference, though.


----------



## dukja

@Skylab
   
  Thanks for your confirmation on the SQ difference.  It is always nice to know that.
   
  And I hate to be the bearer of bad news.  I mentioned to Steve that some at Headfi may be interested in get CSP2 modded to CSP2+.  Steve's reply was that it may not be possible for the future cases.  (Mine may be the R&D/experimental case) The existing CPS2 owners need to sell them themselves and get CSP2+.  Steve did mention that Decware is willing to check the CSP2 for the owner so that they can get almost "certified" CSP2 for resale.  And the buyer can get transferred lifetime warranty.


----------



## markm1111

Just got information bavk from Steve re my CSP2. It was an intermediate build between the old CSP2 and the new CSP2+. According to Steve, it is sonically and functionally the same as the CSP2+. The only difference is that it has only a stereo knob for variable input gain, rather than the individual channel knobs, and the knob is next to the headphone jack rather than near the input jacks.
   
  I am thoroughly enjoying this amp, and the adjustable input really lets me adjust the volume pot perfectly


----------



## dukja

^^^ Glad to hear that.
   
  Since there is almost a month gap between my old and new CSP2+, I cannot really tell what has been changed sonically.  The only thing that I appreciate constantly for this new CSP2+ is its openness and clarity.  My appreciation almost reaches the same level that I have with Phoenix.  It is quite improvement.
   
  What's your impression on the change?  Thanks!


----------



## markm1111

I'd like to be able to tell you the difference Dukja, but I ordered this amp after much research, and then saw your posts about the modification. Steve kindly incorporated the input gain for me during production, so I haven't heard this amp without it.


----------



## markm1111

Skylab, out of interest, what are some good closed phone matches for the CSP2? I am getting grief regularly about sound leakage from my open phones and want to add a closed pair to my collection. The opens I use are primarily HD650 with the CSP2, but also K702.
   
  It would be handy if the closed phone either has a mini xlr connector or could be modded to fit one.
   
  Thanks in advance


----------



## Skylab

The DT770/600 are a good choice.  I also liked the JVC DX1000 with the CSP-2.


----------



## markm1111

Thanks Skylab. So i take it from your reponse the W1000X didn't cut it compared to the other two? I was thinking about the W1000X or the W5000 if I could get a pair at the right price. May have to reconsider....


----------



## Skylab

Actually I just don't really trying that combo. And I sold my CSP-2 this week, because I an upgrading to a Decware Mini-Torri


----------



## dukja

Does this has anything to do with LCD-2?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dukja said:


> Does this has anything to do with LCD-2?


 

 How'd you guess?


----------



## dukja

With LCD2 occupying most of your head time, that should not be a difficult guess.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Please do let us know how that goes.  LCD really changes the gear buying strategy here.  Now great speaker amps dually used for headphone and speaker setup suddenly become a very appealing route.  (but will also make a much more deeper hole for the bank account... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  Sorry for the sidetrack.


----------



## ztsen

Hi Rob,
   
  Does mini-torri has a headphone output or do you use as a preamp or for your speaker only?
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Actually I just don't really trying that combo. And I sold my CSP-2 this week, because I an upgrading to a Decware Mini-Torri


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





ztsen said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> Does mini-torri has a headphone output or do you use as a preamp or for your speaker only?


 

 I custom-ordered one with a headphone out - I plan to use it with headphones.


----------



## ztsen

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I custom-ordered one with a headphone out - I plan to use it with headphones.


 
   
  I also interested, price is much cheaper than Leben. Really love to hear your impression after you get your new toy.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, very different looking, and I am sure it will sound different of course, but I am hoping it will be good with the LCD-2 - it's a good match-up on paper at least, and my experience with other pentode transformer-coupled tube amps and the LCD-2 made me think this would be a good plan.  Plus I did like the Decware CSP-2 a lot in general (just not with the LCD-2).


----------



## Frank I

Just received my Sylvania 5U4G and a backup 5Y3G Sylvania. Still using Sovtex 6922 and waiting on EH6922 and matched Sylvania 6Dj8. Early impression of 5UG smooth very nicely balanced slightly different tone than the 5Y3G Rob sent me with the amp. But its all good. Not sure which I prefer yet as the new tube needs to burn in. I also have RCA 5Y3GT and the Raytheon 5YGT. Its fun rolling again. The Sovtek are some older tubes I had but I believe they were not used and sound very nice. Especially with the D7000. I also ordered a pair of Beyer 770 600 ohms to see if they are a nice fit with the CSP2. The Denon prefer solid state amps.


----------



## Frank I

My early impression after 5 solid hours on the 5U4G Sylvania. Very nice tube smooth sounding but I hear with the 5Y3G more open sound stage, more bass, less smooth but more relaxing and very nice tone. I believe the 5Y3G may be the best fit for this amp but I need more time for conclusive impression and this is why this amp is so much fun. Plenty of rolling options and I can say the Sovtek 6922 is a great tube for this amp and can't wait for the other tubes to play with.


----------



## Skylab

My impressions were very similar, Frank. Ultimately I too preferred the 5Y3G, but the 5U4G is still quite good.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> My impressions were very similar, Frank. Ultimately I too preferred the 5Y3G, but the 5U4G is still quite good.


 

 THE 5u4G is very nice. I have it in now and they are both so close to each other. I could live with either. The 5Y3GT are a different story but as always need hours on them.


----------



## dukja

Recently I have found out that CSP2+ is indeed very transparent and revealing amp.  The SQ of the upper stream becomes critical to the final sound.  I have compared the pairing of it with Ref-1 and DLIII and realized that a DAC in the Ref-1 level is critical to the total enjoyment of CSP2+.
   
  Some comparison between CSP2+ and Phoenix shows more its unique signature.  I actually feel the bass of CSP2+ may be more solid, impactful, and more texture than Phoenix in some of the drum sessions.  Also, CSP2+ has more high freq stress that sound more exciting than Phoenix.  On the other hand, CSP2+ (with 6922 and 5Y3GT) has a little more sharper edge than Phoenix if there a brighter session in the music.  The balanced Phoenix still has better imaging in the soundstage but the difference is not enough to bother me anymore.
   
  However, such performance needs good DAC to show it.  It will be no comparison with lesser DACs.
   
  Another interesting feature of CSP+ that I just discovered is the tonal change with input level trim pots.  In CSP2+, I can trim down the input signal lever from a DAC and compensate it with main volume pot.  However, the tonality will change with different input level and volume gain combination.  When I use lower trim pot and higher volume setting, the sound becomes less solid, looser, and less impactful.  This is quite interesting since now I  have additional tuning capability to adjust the sound with different combination.  Usually, I'll try to use higher input level to give me more condensed and accurate imaging.  For other brighter/edgy recording, I can tune down the brightness by using lesser input level or if I want to get easier listening session.  Now I am using the trim pot a lot more often than before to get optimal setting for me.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dukja said:


> Recently I have found out that CSP2+ is indeed very transparent and revealing amp.  The SQ of the upper stream becomes critical to the final sound.  I have compared the pairing of it with Ref-1 and DLIII and realized that a DAC in the Ref-1 level is critical to the total enjoyment of CSP2+.
> 
> Some comparison between CSP2+ and Phoenix shows more its unique signature.  I actually feel the bass of CSP2+ may be more solid, impactful, and more texture than Phoenix in some of the drum sessions.  Also, CSP2+ has more high freq stress that sound more exciting than Phoenix.  On the other hand, CSP2+ (with 6922 and 5Y3GT) has a little more sharper edge than Phoenix if there a brighter session in the music.  The balanced Phoenix still has better imaging in the soundstage but the difference is not enough to bother me anymore.
> 
> ...


 

 Have you used any low impedance cans to see if the adjustments can tune the can.Mine does not have the controls and my D7000 sounds so much better on my SS Matrix. I get better sound with 6922 and low impedance more SS sounding but I love the Sylvania 6DJ8 with the Sylvania 5y3G . I have found that 5Y3G is the best out of all the rectifier I have and I have 7-8 to flip.


----------



## kboe

Mini Torri huh?   I'm going to have some money thrown my way come May 2011, and would love to know what you think about the Mini-Torri as an amp option for a rig built from $3000.00.  I would love to hear what you've got to say about the Mini-Torri, or even the CSP-2 in such a situation.  Link here.  If not, I'll read you impressions of the Mini-Torri when/if you post them. Sure is a looker from your sig!


----------



## dukja

No, I don't have ANY low-Z phone at this moment. CSP2 is an OTL and as you know that it is perfect fit for high impedance phone.  It is meant for my DT880/600 "fleet" (only two actually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  And I have not heard Matrix, but I will be very surprised if it outperforms CSP2+ & Phoenix with my gears.  I guess that you must be happy with your Beyers/600 ohm and CSP2 (i.e. only Denon gave  you problem?)
   
  I am not familiar with any CD playesr.  Since CSP2 is so transparent as I just posted, it is good idea to make sure source is not the issue.  DACs can have a go/no-go interference to CSP2 for me. 
   
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> Have you used any low impedance cans to see if the adjustments can tune the can.Mine does not have the controls and my D7000 sounds so much better on my SS Matrix. I get better sound with 6922 and low impedance more SS sounding but I love the Sylvania 6DJ8 with the Sylvania 5y3G . I have found that 5Y3G is the best out of all the rectifier I have and I have 7-8 to flip.


 

 I guess you were asking Skylab and hope that he will answer it soon.  He does post some good report in other threads.

  
  Quote: 





kboe said:


> Mini Torri huh?   I'm going to have some money thrown my way come May 2011, and would love to know what you think about the Mini-Torri as an amp option for a rig built from $3000.00.  I would love to hear what you've got to say about the Mini-Torri, or even the CSP-2 in such a situation.  Link here.  If not, I'll read you impressions of the Mini-Torri when/if you post them. Sure is a looker from your sig!


----------



## Frank I

LOL Source is no problem and you might be surprised since I do own the CSP-2 at how good the SS Matrix is and performs. My T1 and 770 are great with either amp but I do prefer the SS with the D7000. The new amp supposedly has volt adj to adjust for low impedance cans in my conversation with Steve Deckert


----------



## Skylab

I have been enjoying the Mini-torii a LOT.  It is outstanding with the LCD-2 and ME-5LE.  It is NOT a jack of all trades - it's not meant for high-impedance headphones.  But for low-sensitivity, low-impedance headphones like planar/orthos, it's terrific.
   
  I really need to try it with speakers, just have not had time yet...


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have been enjoying the Mini-torii a LOT.  It is outstanding with the LCD-2 and ME-5LE.  It is NOT a jack of all trades - it's not meant for high-impedance headphones.  But for low-sensitivity, low-impedance headphones like planar/orthos, it's terrific.
> 
> I really need to try it with speakers, just have not had time yet...


 

 save your money. More flagship headphones to be released/ May as well have one of each. LOL


----------



## dukja

Good to know that you have sealed the source side.  Did you mod the 999ES with multi-$k stuff?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  And I am glad CSP2 does the justice for you high-Z phones.  My understanding of the input level adjustment was to cope with DACs with 2.5V or higher output level and also already high-gain of CSP2.  The change of tonality is kind of side effect (but pleasant one).  Steve did mention that by lowering the input level the music sounds more "open" and not "compressed" and I can relate his comment with my listening experience with CSP2+. 
   
  Skylab does mention high freq roll off with LCD-2.  Was that your problem?  No matter what, there might be more reasons to use SS and transformer-coupled amp for low-Z phone than just gain setting, such as current vs voltage need.
  
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> LOL Source is no problem and you might be surprised since I do own the CSP-2 at how good the SS Matrix is and performs. My T1 and 770 are great with either amp but I do prefer the SS with the D7000. The new amp supposedly has volt adj to adjust for low impedance cans in my conversation with Steve Deckert


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dukja said:


> Good to know that you have sealed the source side.  Did you mod the 999ES with multi-$k stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No mods on the 999ES. That is used in my 2 channel system.for SACD only and the DX7555 for redbook. I use the Marantz DV6001 with my headphone setup. No problem was just seeing if the new amp could be adjusted. Steve said the voltage was adjustable. The D7000 open up much better on the Matrix with a wider and deeper more 3D presentation. I have both amps set up but the 7000 plays on the tube amp but it is not as synergistic as with the SS


----------



## rivieraranch

I am to receive my new CSP2+ tomorrow. I will burn it in using some 6N1P-EV'S I have and an #80 (5Y3) rectifier using an adapter.
  I will be using Sennheisers with the unit so they should be a great match, just like with my former CSP2.
   
  I was curious when I saw that DECWARE is offering a headphone jack on the Mini Torii but it appears that this would be good only for low impedance headphones such as GRADOS.I have a Mini Torii already. It is a shame that I did not wait until this headphone modification came into existence. The good thing about DECWARE is that they are always looking to improve on their products.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rivieraranch said:


> I am to receive my new CSP2+ tomorrow. I will burn it in using some 6N1P-EV'S I have and an #80 (5Y3) rectifier using an adapter.
> I will be using Sennheisers with the unit so they should be a great match, just like with my former CSP2.
> 
> I was curious when I saw that DECWARE is offering a headphone jack on the Mini Torii but it appears that this would be good only for low impedance headphones such as GRADOS.I have a Mini Torii already. It is a shame that I did not wait until this headphone modification came into existence. The good thing about DECWARE is that they are always looking to improve on their products.


 
  Ask Steve if he will mod your mini torri.  I would think they will play low and high as Skylab has one


----------



## rivieraranch

I may attend the DECFEST event this year. If so, I will try it out in person.


----------



## ztsen

i think the headphone mod offer after skylab custom request and have a good result for low impedance headphones.
  
  Quote: 





rivieraranch said:


> I am to receive my new CSP2+ tomorrow. I will burn it in using some 6N1P-EV'S I have and an #80 (5Y3) rectifier using an adapter.
> I will be using Sennheisers with the unit so they should be a great match, just like with my former CSP2.
> 
> I was curious when I saw that DECWARE is offering a headphone jack on the Mini Torii but it appears that this would be good only for low impedance headphones such as GRADOS.I have a Mini Torii already. It is a shame that I did not wait until this headphone modification came into existence. The good thing about DECWARE is that they are always looking to improve on their products.


----------



## dukja

Congrats!  You are another one that I know own CSP2+.  Hopefully Steve sells a bunch of them.  Anyhow, please keep us updated on your impression.
   
  Skylab had Mini Torii modded for LCD-2's thirst on current.  It could be a nice dual purpose gear.  But I read Steve's note somewhere describing CSP2 to be more transparent. (If my memory serves me right...)
  
  Quote: 





rivieraranch said:


> I am to receive my new CSP2+ tomorrow. I will burn it in using some 6N1P-EV'S I have and an #80 (5Y3) rectifier using an adapter.
> I will be using Sennheisers with the unit so they should be a great match, just like with my former CSP2.
> 
> I was curious when I saw that DECWARE is offering a headphone jack on the Mini Torii but it appears that this would be good only for low impedance headphones such as GRADOS.I have a Mini Torii already. It is a shame that I did not wait until this headphone modification came into existence. The good thing about DECWARE is that they are always looking to improve on their products.


----------



## Skylab

Just to be clear, the only "mod" I had done to the Mini-torii was the addition of a headphone jack


----------



## rivieraranch

I spoke to Steve today and he said that the Mini Torii headphone modification is better suited to the electrostatics. They tried some GRADOS with it and it got too loud too fast. Based on that I am not going to go bananas and send mine to DECWARE for this mod unless I was convinced that it would be in my best interest.
   
  I am breaking in my CSP2+ and so far it sounds just as good as the prior model. The differences I think will be more pronounced as I work more with the trim pots and volume control and the tubes and all the guts get burned in.


----------



## Skylab

That makes sense.  I also found that for the high-sensitivity JVC DX1000, the mini-torii had just a little too much background noise and hiss.  It's really best as a headphone amp very specifically for low sensitivity, medium-low impedance headphones.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That makes sense.  I also found that for the high-sensitivity JVC DX1000, the mini-torii had just a little too much background noise and hiss.  It's really best as a headphone amp very specifically for low sensitivity, medium-low impedance headphones.


 

 Interesting so I am assuming the Denon D7000 would also not be good on the mini toori. Rob but i works with the LCD2 which is 50 ohms. Do you hear any hiss or noise running the LCD2


----------



## Skylab

No hiss, noise, or hum with the LCD-2 or the HE-5LE, at all.  Also no noise/hum with the Fostex T50RP.  The tiniest bit with the Edition 8, but not nearly enough to be concerned about.  Enough on the D7000, W1000X, and DX1000 to be slightly bothersome.  No noise on the T1, but supposedly there would be a bass roll-off with high impedance headphones.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> No hiss, noise, or hum with the LCD-2 or the HE-5LE, at all.  Also no noise/hum with the Fostex T50RP.  The tiniest bit with the Edition 8, but not nearly enough to be concerned about.  Enough on the D7000, W1000X, and DX1000 to be slightly bothersome.  No noise on the T1, but supposedly there would be a bass roll-off with high impedance headphones.


 

 On the CSP-2 the D7000 plays with no noise or hiss yet it not optimal with the amp. I just switched to the SS with the Denon much better weird that the Planars would play but you having problems with the others but you did buy it for the planars. I guess because planars like power the more the better.


----------



## Skylab

Right - it's the fact that they are lower efficiency that makes this amp work well with them - otherwise it's just too much power.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Right - it's the fact that they are lower efficiency that makes this amp work well with them - otherwise it's just too much power.


 

 But actually the LCD2 is very efficient at 91DB that would be considered not difficult to drive as you also said they did work on the CSP-2. Actually the D7000 I just switched to tubes the main difference I see is a little less sound stage but it is more transparent. I guess more than one amp is always a good idea.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





frank i said:


> But actually the LCD2 is very efficient at 91DB that would be considered not difficult to drive as you also said they did work on the CSP-2. Actually the D7000 I just switched to tubes the main difference I see is a little less sound stage but it is more transparent. I guess more than one amp is always a good idea.


 

 Hmm, but in my book 91 dB is not very efficient.  A lot of headphone run much higher than that, like 100+ dB/mW.
   
  Good idea is more than one amp      it means, "I agree!!!"


----------



## Skylab

Agreed - 91db can only be describes as "medium efficiency" at best, I think.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Agreed - 91db can only be describes as "medium efficiency" at best, I think.


 

 It still not inefficient like the 84DB HiFiman cans.  Even so they still need proper amplification to get the best out of them.


----------



## Skylab

Yup, and yup


----------



## Solude

Aye 91dB wouldn't be efficient but then the LCD-2 isn't actually measuring at that if we believe Tyll.  90dB @ 120mV into 49Ohm... you do the math


----------



## Frank I

I do not believe the CSP-2 would be a good matcvh for the planar as it is not a good match for my D7000. The D7000 performs best with my SS amp and by a long shot. The T1 performs better with the CSP-2. I also have the Genalex Golden Lion 6922 being shipped tomorrow and will report on how they sound. EH 6922 did not fair well in the CSP-2


----------



## Frank I

I received the Genalex Golden Lion 6922 tubes all matched and in the CSP-2 still need time to open up but there were not connection issue as I had with the EH 6922. These are well constructed and have gold pins. They need some hours to burn in but early impression is positive and with a different sound over my Sovtek 6922 or Sylvania 6DJ8. Will post more as they burn in.These tubes are close to 50.00 each for matched so there not inexpensive but built well.


----------



## Skylab

Cool Frank - do post your impressions after run-in!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Cool Frank - do post your impressions after run-in!


 

 4hrs in and I really hear  some positives. Sound Stage is starting to open not sure how many hours but they are getting better. Great bass and highs. Nice detail Supposedly when Genalex had these were manufactured for Genalex by Amperex and the reissue has all Genalex tooling and these according to Jim McShane measured and tested better than any other 6922 thats out there. So far no minus all plus's


----------



## lyramax

Has anyone owned or been able to listen to both the CSP2 and the MAD Ear+HD and can compare the two amps?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





lyramax said:


> Has anyone owned or been able to listen to both the CSP2 and the MAD Ear+HD and can compare the two amps?


 

 I  would also like to hear some impressiom on the MAD. MH said it has a low and igh input and plays lowimpedance and high impedance cans. Pretty interesting as its an OTL. The CSO-2 does not do well with the D7000. SS is mor eopen and gives them a 3d sound stage which the tube amp it is really not playing to its potential. Interesting amp from Canada and MH loves it.


----------



## Kurt

Quote:  





> Pretty interesting as its an OTL.


 

 No, it's not.


----------



## lyramax

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I  would also like to hear some impressiom on the MAD. MH said it has a low and igh input and plays lowimpedance and high impedance cans. Pretty interesting as its an OTL.
> ...


 

 From what I've read the MAD Ear+ is not an OTL amp.


----------



## Frank I

The genalex Golden Lions 6922 have been running since I  received them Friday and I have not wanted to change back to the 6DJ8 which is a good sign as the tube is satisfied my audiophile urge. It has detail,air and good bass. The question remains price. They are 46.00 tube for matched tubes which makes them more than twice what I paid for the NOS Sylvania matched 6DJ8. I would not say they are better or worse. Slightly different sound and built beautifully. This tube should last a long time. On another note I used the CSP-2 as a preamp driving my Outlaw 2150 and had very surprising results driving the maggies. It was like the Outlaw was on steroids and putting out so much more power. I hear dynamics more bass driving the sub and transparency. IMO tube stomp solid state in sound stage and transparency. It was pretty amazing  and now am thinking about using my main setup with the preamp. It scored big time for me in my system. I also am using the Sylvania 5U4G tube with the 6922 and will live with this for a little while.


----------



## markm1111

I use my CSP-2+ as a pre amp as well, driving the power amp section of a Burson PI-160 integrated. I really love this versatility as I can get a taste of the tube sopund in both headphones and speakers.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





markm1111 said:


> I use my CSP-2+ as a pre amp as well, driving the power amp section of a Burson PI-160 integrated. I really love this versatility as I can get a taste of the tube sopund in both headphones and speakers.


 

 It is also a snap to put in the main system. It took me 2 minutes to do the switch. It really made the Outlaw hum and the Maggies never sounded so good. Weird the power difference the Outlaw had and at very low levels the dynamic were great.


----------



## dukja

Before I have T1, CSP2+ has shown it potential so well that I feel it almost approach the level of Phoenix and yet with quite different SQ.  (I guess that It is not surprise at all).  However, now with a right source T1 really brings out the bright spot of CSP2+.  The 3D-like soundstage with pin point accuracy easily and clearly reveals the placement of each notes without any ambiguity.  The drum beats are also snappier. I can see that with T1 tube rolling will be much more fun.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dukja said:


> Before I have T1, CSP2+ has shown it potential so well that I feel it almost approach the level of Phoenix and yet with quite different SQ.  (I guess that It is not surprise at all).  However, now with a right source T1 really brings out the bright spot of CSP2+.  The 3D-like soundstage with pin point accuracy easily and clearly reveals the placement of each notes without any ambiguity.  The drum beats are also snappier. I can see that with T1 tube rolling will be much more fun.


 
  I am using the Sylvania 5U4G and Genalex 6922 and the combo is magic. It not only play like that with the T1 but with the LCD2 as well.It is very detailed and dynamic and a great tube amp. I see no reason to buy anymore amps and feel I will satisfied for a long while. Glad you enjoy yours.


----------



## francoamerican

for the power + driver x 2, do all three of these need to all be "matched by the tube seller"   Or just the 2 x driver tubes?  
   
  thanks!
   
  FA


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





francoamerican said:


> for the power + driver x 2, do all three of these need to all be "matched by the tube seller"   Or just the 2 x driver tubes?
> 
> thanks!
> 
> FA


 


  I order all my tubes matched but you do not need matched tubes I just prefer my tubes matched as I do not get tubes from different batches as is NOS 40yr old tubes.


----------



## echosf

Quite a bit late, but I have to thank you for this great review and nice pictures.


----------



## tink97

Hello,
   
  I am wondering is the Decware amp a warm sounding amp, or does tubing rolling decide if the sound is warm or not?
   
  tink97


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





tink97 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am wondering is the Decware amp a warm sounding amp, or does tubing rolling decide if the sound is warm or not?
> 
> tink97


 
  It will change with the sound of the tubes but to me it is typical of good tube sound warmth and detail and transparency.


----------



## Skylab

It does depend on the tubes.  I actually don;t find the CSP-2 to be an overly-warm sounding amp with most tubes, however.  Just a touch of warmth, but it will not turn a cold/bright headphone into a warm and fuzzy one


----------



## dukja

Yes, I totally agree with you guy's comment.  I have very little "culture shock" switch from SS amp to CSP2.  I had experience with low-end tube amp and that put me off for a while.  But one thing I amazed about CSP2 was that it sounds so transparent and clean (and has even more sparkling than Phoenix).  To me it is very SS-like tube amp but with the virtue of a tube amp.


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

good advice, i am pretty much sold on the new csp2+  but was worrying about that very issue, just when u think u found the perfect amp/preamp, typical
  the 2 input and preamp output is my main reason for being interested, i wonder how csp2 compares to thecsp2+
   
  is there any other tube head amp that have preamp capabilities?   and or also have the 2 input?
   
   
  i didn't know that about the woo, so are all there amps transformer coupled or just that wa6se?
   
  so iem work  with the wa6se? how well is the question and  do there amps have gain settings? is gain setting on an otl impossible?
   
  and do either of those have gain, i have read the csp2 has some extra controls on it,
   
  and yea i hate the f act that the input and input switch is ont he back to.   that is annoying, the head input and switch should be next to volume pot.. the rca can stay on the back where they belong.
   
  great review skylab as usually, sorry i am late to the game,   but wow 2 input and preamp i am in
   
  ive also been considering some other pre amps which do not have head amp capability but hope they have good synergy with matrix or hdp or ehha rev A, but id much rather try the new  liquid gold.
   
  dare i mention lisa mini via csp2+ synergy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  some line stages i am seriously considering are the jolida jd 5t or jd 50 a (cant tell which is better)  or aes djh, or carey 308, oh and the LA Audio C22 is also on my mind.
  all of these have something in common they are all very small and compact, i do not like  large gear but am open minded what else should be on my radar
   
  basically i plan on having a good ss/ tube line stage for my main rig, and then something like the csp2 for the bed rig. but i bet ill will end up using it more in the main rig
  i will be using the edition 8 and lcd2 and d7000 with csp2 and csp2 will act as preamp for yamaha rs 700 to klipsch rb61 II, and  maybe some paradigm titan, but i may just get some other horn style speakers, i am actually taking a much needed iem break but the denon  do worry with csp2
    
  hopefully this sparks some head amp/preamp recommendation and or  analysis and discussion  as i sure would appreciate it
   
  thanks
   
   
   
  Quote:


skylab said:


> If you are truly wanting to be able to drive very low impedance headphones like the Denons and you want the amp to be at its best with such headphones, then to meet all of your criterea, I'd say your best bet is the transformer-coupled WooAudio 6SE. I have never heard it, but it has a great rep, and to really do justice to very low impedance headphones, a tube amp needs to be transformer-coupled, not OTL like the CSP-2, which is a truly excellent amp from a great manufacturer, but does better with higher impedance cans. It actually drives lower-impedance headphones quite well, but again if that is an important criterea, I'd go for a TC tube amp.


----------



## Frank I

The CSP-2 is a outstanding preamp. I put it in my 2 channel system and had Maggie MMG with the Outlaw sun using the Outlaw as a power amp and it was amazing. The detail and sound coming out was so good and dynamic. It put both the Outlaw and sub on steroids. It really is super to use that way. The new one has some volt adjustments to fine tune your headphones. I love mine and use it daily.


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The CSP-2 is a outstanding preamp. I put it in my 2 channel system and had Maggie MMG with the Outlaw sun using the Outlaw as a power amp and it was amazing. The detail and sound coming out was so good and dynamic. It put both the Outlaw and sub on steroids. It really is super to use that way. The new one has some volt adjustments to fine tune your headphones. I love mine and use it daily.


 

 nice,  and  i am  glad u mentioned the 2150 with csp2, that is awesome to hear they  have good synergy
  i think my csp2 will act as preamp for the new  yamaha rs 700, only if i can ever figure out if you can a/b speakers via remote like on the rx 797, my main reason for consideration,  but that 2150 is best and i am jealous, i tried to get one, and still may end up getting one
  thanks for the impression


----------



## BournePerfect

Well I'm thinking about picking the CSP2+ up shortly! Can I also use the preouts to feed my M-Stage (with k702s)? Will this work? And what sonic signature will I be hearing: the Matrix's, Decware's, or both? Are there any advantages to this? Obviously I will use it's own amplifier primarily, but I'm curious to try all the possibilities!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Well I'm thinking about picking the CSP2+ up shortly! Can I also use the preouts to feed my M-Stage (with k702s)? Will this work? And what sonic signature will I be hearing: the Matrix's, Decware's, or both? Are there any advantages to this? Obviously I will use it's own amplifier primarily, but I'm curious to try all the possibilities!
> 
> -Daniel


 


  The Matrix can only be used as a preamp. It has no iinput fot the preamp and thus needs to be used as a preamp. The Decware stomps the matrix so even if you could it would have no sonic advantage IMO


----------



## BournePerfect

Frank:
   
       Do you think there would be no benefits to keeping the M-Stage once I get the Decware? I plan on only using the k702 and possibly upgrading to the T1 eventually. I'm thinking that will be the case, but I definitely love this Matrix! But for an overall hp amp, and amazing speaker preamp, I'm wondering if I'd be better off selling the Matrix later to help fund this upgrade.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Frank:
> 
> Do you think there would be no benefits to keeping the M-Stage once I get the Decware? I plan on only using the k702 and possibly upgrading to the T1 eventually. I'm thinking that will be the case, but I definitely love this Matrix! But for an overall hp amp, and amazing speaker preamp, I'm wondering if I'd be better off selling the Matrix later to help fund this upgrade.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 The Matrix is a great amp for the 702. The Decware can handle it but only you can decide whatsa better but for the T1 the performance with the CSP-2 is stunning. If it were me I would keep the matrix unless you need the money if not always good to have two amps. Decware and Steve deckert is IMO a very special company that produces amazing products for the money and the CSP-2 is an outstanding pre amp as well.


----------



## BournePerfect

Thanks Frank. I figured as much, and I really don't like the idea of giving up this great amp.I suppose I'll get the Decware and new dac first and see how everything sounds with that final setup! I'm really liking everything I'm reading about Decware as a company, and it's products, and I'd really like to support them in the future if the CSP2+ is all it's cracked up to be. I actually just ordered their silver interconnects and they should be arriving next week. I did think it was kind of weird (lame) that those cables are also built to order, and that it would be a 3 week wait to get them though! Especially since they are only available in 2 lengths, you'd think they'd have a thousand or so ready to go lol.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Thanks Frank. I figured as much, and I really don't like the idea of giving up this great amp.I suppose I'll get the Decware and new dac first and see how everything sounds with that final setup! I'm really liking everything I'm reading about Decware as a company, and it's products, and I'd really like to support them in the future if the CSP2+ is all it's cracked up to be. I actually just ordered their silver interconnects and they should be arriving next week. I did think it was kind of weird (lame) that those cables are also built to order, and that it would be a 3 week wait to get them though! Especially since they are only available in 2 lengths, you'd think they'd have a thousand or so ready to go lol.
> 
> -Danie
> Steve Deckert is old school. He builds everything to order and keep no inventory that I know of. I will say that his prices are amazing for what he builds and the quality he puts into his products. One thing I have learned about Steve you need to be patient as he sometimes answers an email days later but his wife SDevon i9s always easy to reach by phone. Love the way they do business a real underground operation provideing super products. I have had 5 solid state amps come through my rig and the Decware is one that will stay with me forever I love it that much.


----------



## BournePerfect

Nice! I'm incredibly excited to order this amp, and it will be my first venture into tubes. I also like that it will be of great use to my future reference speaker setup (another can of worms) an that adds to it's value a great deal! I'm kinda surprised there isn't more talk of this amp on these boards, seeing how it seems almost perfect to everyone who has used it.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Nice! I'm incredibly excited to order this amp, and it will be my first venture into tubes. I also like that it will be of great use to my future reference speaker setup (another can of worms) an that adds to it's value a great deal! I'm kinda surprised there isn't more talk of this amp on these boards, seeing how it seems almost perfect to everyone who has used it.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 I agree about the talk. Woo makes himself visible Steve deckert always keeps a low profile but I llove the amp and its permanent for me.


----------



## rivieraranch

I believe that the business model at DECWARE is not to stock inventory but to make things to order. It costs money to maintain inventory and they are trying to offer a product at a reasonable price point. If their gear were marketed elsewhere it would be a lot more expensive on account of advertising, marketing, etc,
   
  There is tremendous value in the DECWARE gear. They are always open to tweaking and making improvements over time.The products they make are because they love audio. They don't sit around and decide what their profit margin needs to be and make black box gear to achieve that.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rivieraranch said:


> I believe that the business model at DECWARE is not to stock inventory but to make things to order. It costs money to maintain inventory and they are trying to offer a product at a reasonable price point. If their gear were marketed elsewhere it would be a lot more expensive on account of advertising, marketing, etc,
> 
> There is tremendous value in the DECWARE gear. They are always open to tweaking and making improvements over time.The products they make are because they love audio. They don't sit around and decide what their profit margin needs to be and make black box gear to achieve that.


 

 I agree about the Value. Man this CSP-2 is so magical with the T1. It really is a special amp/preamp and it plays so well. Steve does do everything built for the customer and he is willing to do anything you want to have the right amp. Too bad he does not have an amp to power the maggies as I would buy one. I love the sound signature of his amps


----------



## BournePerfect

Does anyone have any comparisons with this amp with the k702s? Also, what dacs are you guys using with this? Thanks.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## rivieraranch

In the past, I have owned 2 CSP2 units and now just bought the new CSP2+. The new unit is easier to use on account of the variable input pots. With my former CSP2 units I could not turn the volume up very much. Now with the new CSP2+ unit I can work with the input levels and the volume as well.
   
  My new CSP2+ arrived and there was something wrong with it. I could hear a snowy noise in the background, like the audio of an old analog television station that accompanied "snow" after the station signed off and was not putting out any signal. I sent it back to DECWARE under their lifetime warranty. I was able to speak with Steve Deckert about the situation. The problem had been intermittent, which made it tricky to run down. I could tell that Deckert was very interested in finding out what the trouble was. So he suggested that I send him the tubes I'd been using for him to evaluate the problem. I did that. He said he would keep the amp in the shop and run it to determine what the problem was.
   
  Soon after I sent the tubes Deckert called and said he found a small wire that had inadvertently worked its way out from the resistor under one of the tube sockets. That was fixed and the unit was sent back to me. The important part about their guarantee is that if you have a problem within the 30 days after purchase DECWARE will pay the freight, back and forth. 
   
  So to sum up this experience, I would say it worked out well, despite the  minor inconvenience of having to ship the unit, etc. What is important is that DECWARE cared enough to look at the unit hard enough to find what was ailing it, fix it and return it. you almost get the feeling that their amps are like children that they want to keep track of.


----------



## RedBull

Quote:  





> you almost get the feeling that their amps are like children that they want to keep track of.


 

 Interesting description 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 lol


----------



## rivieraranch

I am having a problem with some of my collection of 6N1P-EV tubes. the CSP2+ is back home and working fine. I bought 12 of these 6N1P-EV tubes from a Russian seller recently and 7 of these exhibit a loud hum. Five of them are quiet. It is not the amp's fault; there is something wrong with the tubes. Yet there are numerous people who are venturing opinions that the amp is making these tubes hum, not the other way around.


----------



## stoutblock

Quote: 





rivieraranch said:


> I am having a problem with some of my collection of 6N1P-EV tubes. the CSP2+ is back home and working fine. I bought 12 of these 6N1P-EV tubes from a Russian seller recently and 7 of these exhibit a loud hum. Five of them are quiet. It is not the amp's fault; there is something wrong with the tubes. Yet there are numerous people who are venturing opinions that the amp is making these tubes hum, not the other way around.


 

 I use 6DJ8, 6922, 7308 tubes in several pieces of equipment.  Mostly my line stage and DAC along with my CSP2.  I use the CSP2 to check the sound signature of driver tubes I use in these other components.  In all cases, the sound signature and quality I hear in the CSP2 is also present in the other equipment.  It is just easier to hear when using the CSP2.  This is with Beyerdynamic DT880/600 HPs.
   
  Best tube I have found is the Mullard CV2493.  Very low noise floor with a signature wide and deep.  There are some other combinations that sound good.  I have had good results with the 6N1P tubes in the two back slots and an Amperex 7308 in the front slot.


----------



## Skylab

The CV2493 is indeed terrific. It was what I settled on with the CSP-2 as well, and I now use them in my WA2, where they are also excellent.


----------



## stoutblock

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The CV2493 is indeed terrific. It was what I settled on with the CSP-2 as well, and I now use them in my WA2, where they are also excellent.


 

 Hi skylab, it has been a while since I have posted.  Still can't thank you enough for talking me into the DT880/600 and CSP2 combination!  I see you have moved on to some new choices with some newer products?  As always, this hobby never ends.  I believe you no longer have your CSP2?
   
  If anyone wants to get a new experience with their CSP2, try a couple of 6H23n-EB tubes in the back slots and something a little warmer in the front. This tube has the effect of making the CSP-2 come very close to a SS.  Not that that is a good thing but it just shows how versatile this amp is to tube tuning.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I sold my CSP-2 when I bought the Decware Mini-Torii. But that didn't change that it was a great amp with the right headphones.


----------



## stoutblock

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, I sold my CSP-2 when I bought the Decware Mini-Torii. But that didn't change that it was a great amp with the right headphones.


 

 So I assume you are also on the LCD-2 band wagon?


----------



## Skylab

stoutblock said:


> So I assume you are also on the LCD-2 band wagon?






Yup. That's what prompted me to move from the CSP-2 to the Mini-Torii.


----------



## stoutblock

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yup. That's what prompted me to move from the CSP-2 to the Mini-Torii.


 
   
  Nice amp!  How do you make up your mind on tube selections?  The CSP2 is hard enough!
   
  Do you have a review of the Mini-Torii and LCD-2 combination?


----------



## Skylab

No formal review, no, but have made extensive comments in the LCD-2 amping thread. 

I am using Sylvania 6V6G's and Tung-Sol 12 BH7's in place of the 12AU7's. The rest of the stock tubes were already pretty nice NOS tubes so I left them in there.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Thanks Frank. I figured as much, and I really don't like the idea of giving up this great amp.I suppose I'll get the Decware and new dac first and see how everything sounds with that final setup! I'm really liking everything I'm reading about Decware as a company, and it's products, and I'd really like to support them in the future if the CSP2+ is all it's cracked up to be. I actually just ordered their silver interconnects and they should be arriving next week. I did think it was kind of weird (lame) that those cables are also built to order, and that it would be a 3 week wait to get them though! Especially since they are only available in 2 lengths, you'd think they'd have a thousand or so ready to go lol.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  I believe that DECWARE would make custom lengths if you needed something other than the meter or half meter standard lengths.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, I sold my CSP-2 when I bought the Decware Mini-Torii. But that didn't change that it was a great amp with the right headphones.


 


  LOL and I am glad I coaxed you into selling it. Love the amp and cant wait to match it up with the Taboo


----------



## dukja

@Frank I
   
  Recently  I found the Philip 6922 was a little bit thin and the soundstage was a little bit too far so I switch to the stock tube (Russian 6H1n-EB), and found the SQ was not as bad as I thought.  I actually like it quite a bit: more body and impact with realistic soundstage.  What I ended up with was using 6H1n as the front driver tube and Philip 6922 as the back two power tubes.  I got good body with still nice high freq extension.
   
  Anyhow, I read your post about Gold Lion 6922 and many other good posts.  Would you be able to describe more about its sonic feature?  I am looking for clear transparent sound with good image and body.  Thanks!!
  
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> I received the Genalex Golden Lion 6922 tubes all matched and in the CSP-2 still need time to open up but there were not connection issue as I had with the EH 6922. These are well constructed and have gold pins. They need some hours to burn in but early impression is positive and with a different sound over my Sovtek 6922 or Sylvania 6DJ8. Will post more as they burn in.These tubes are close to 50.00 each for matched so there not inexpensive but built well.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dukja said:


> @Frank I
> 
> Recently  I found the Philip 6922 was a little bit thin and the soundstage was a little bit too far so I switch to the stock tube (Russian 6H1n-EB), and found the SQ was not as bad as I thought.  I actually like it quite a bit: more body and impact with realistic soundstage.  What I ended up with was using 6H1n as the front driver tube and Philip 6922 as the back two power tubes.  I got good body with still nice high freq extension.
> 
> ...


 


  The Golden Lion is a very good strong and rugged tube. The biggest difference over the excellent Sylvania 6DJ8 was more bass a fuller sound and detail still coming through. They are around the same price as some NOS and a little more pricey than most but they have added. It also seems more powerful than the 6DJ8 but it just could be that the fullness and bass could make it appear that way. The sound has me relaxed and  I have not changed or rolled the tubes in the CSP-2 since I put the Golden Lion in. They really are a very nice 6922 and IMO worth the extra coin if they hold up over time. Beautifully constructed and nice to have a new production tube sound so good.The 6DJ8 have more air and are a lush lighter sound but the 6922 is fuller with more bass. Both excellent tubes and I do have both matched sets and do use all three the same tubes in the CSP-2. Hope this helps a little.Lets just say I have become a fan of the Genalex tubes and from what I have gathered all their tubes sound that way across the board. I will be trying the EL84 next in my Taboo but I do love the Sylvania EL84 and the tube 12HB7 that Rob recommended. That will be my last EL84 I try except for the Golden Dragon. I think my tubes are covered for a bit.


----------



## dukja

Thanks a lot, Frank I.  Your impression echos many others I read.  They are really appealing.  ATM, I am pretty happy with the lowly 6H1n front and 6922 back config.  It improves the impact and body quite a bit.


----------



## Frank I

I also have some genalex EL84 to ttry in my Taboo. I hope they will perform as well or better than my EL84 Sylvania Blackgated. Will keep you posted


----------



## dukja

Recently, I just fall in love with CSP2+ with DT880/600 again!  About a week ago, I brought T1 back home to mate with it and wasn't really happy with the sound.  The sound was a little bit less body and dry.  That prompts me to change the tubes as I mentioned earlier.  Initially, I was just happy for more bodied sound.  But the more I listened to this tube combination, the more I love the current sound.  It sound intimate but with some "depth" to the sound.  In addition to the soundstage depth, it give me a means to hear the texture of the sound because the body of sound was so solid and not become more visible.  It is also quite thicker and weightier than Phoenix and I like it.
   
  With this combo, I can easily hear the sonic difference between my DLIII and Ref-7 shoot-out.  I'll say this is the first time I start to feel the magic of tube amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (I had CSP2+ for quite some time)


----------



## Skylab

Cool - so which tubes did you prefer with the T1, then?


----------



## dukja

My T1 is currently out and I had this discovery after that.  Sorry to disappointed you now but I'll report back when I get T1 back later.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dukja said:


> My T1 is currently out and I had this discovery after that.  Sorry to disappointed you now but I'll report back when I get T1 back later.


 


  Glad your still liking your CSP-2. I am very happy with my Decware stuff and have discovered you need to find  the best tube combo in my CSP-2 I usll all Genelx 6922 with a Sylvania 5U4G and in the Tabbo I have settled on my SV83 tubes and the GE 12BH7 as my choice and I have had enought tubes in and out but for me this is the right combo for both my headphones and speakers,


----------



## dukja

I have rolled some of my own rectifier tubs recently.  It was quite a fun time and to my surprise the SQ changes quite a bit with even rectifier tubes.  And there is only one tubes to change so it is a lot less work (and cost) to roll it.
   
  Initially, I thought I  like Raytheon 5U4G best due to its smooth high and rich low.  Then, I re-discovered Sylvania 5U4G with DT880/600 (It was a little edgy with T1).  The high is clearer but a little bit sharper and leaner. 
   
  Recently, I just got GE 5U4G and have been pleased by its sound. GE is not only clean and tonality-wise seems to be more correct (judge by flute's sound).  It also seems to have very rich harmonics.  The high freq is so fine and yet so smooth.  Very nice!  The additional plus is the low is even richer than Raytheon.
   
  A good surprise with GE 5U4G (with very affordable price).


----------



## Theodore

Hi.
  I try to send a email to Decware,but I can't,because I take a message that they have not email adress.
  Is it something wrong with their address,or I have made some mistake?


----------



## dukja

^^ It is better to call them.  They will eventually get back with you in email (use the one for Sarah for faster response).  Steve mentioned that he got so many emails that he cannot get back in time.
   
  Call is much faster and you can ask for Steve if he is around.


----------



## Theodore

Thx.


----------



## jeust0999

edit


----------



## dukja

Recently I discover the new sound from Saint Saens' No. 3 "Organ" symphony with my T1.  I always wonder why it has "Organ" in the title but I was not aware much of its sound.  It turned out that organ only showed up at later part of 1st movement and some part of 2nd movement.  However, the presence in 1st movement was registered mostly at 50 Hz and lower (as low as 32Hz) so it escaped my attention almost completely in the past when I use other equipments. 
   
  And now I am crazy about these "very dramatic and give a deeply impressive aural experience." (cited from Wikipedia).  I initially discover those sound with my T1 + Phoenix combo.  But I was less impressed with CSP2 with Sylvania 5U4G rectifier tube since the pipe organ wasn't as clear and apparent.  I like Sylvania 5U4G because its highly clear and transparent sound.  It works very well with classical music and rivals with Phoenix's mid and high.
   
  Later I switched to my Raytheon 5U4G and found the lost lower bass back.  With this rectifier tube, the pipe organ may be even more apparent than that with Phoenix and now CSP2 provide very moving "rumble" with T1.  However, the soundstage and transparency of Raytheon is less than Sylvania.
   
  So I wonder any one has found the amazing rectifier tube that can delivery excellency of both ends?


----------



## Skylab

That is a GREAT piece of music.  I have it on reel-to-reel and it is astonishing.


----------



## dukja

And do you have good recommendation on the rectifier tube?
   
  I am looking at some RCA, Tungsol 5U4G and Ken Rad 5Y3GT.  What would be your educated guess for the best shot to give both good deep bass and clear mid-high?
   
  Thanks!
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> That is a GREAT piece of music.  I have it on reel-to-reel and it is astonishing.


----------



## Skylab

I really liked the Sylvania 5Y3G.  I found 5Y3's worked best for me in the CSP-2.


----------



## jeust0999

Skylab,
   
  Did you find similarities between the Decware amps? The CSP2 and your Mini-Torii?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I really liked the Sylvania 5Y3G.  I found 5Y3's worked best for me in the CSP-2.


 


  I have three NOS posted here for sale since I use the two pieces I have the Sylvania 5U4G but I have 4or 5 5Y3G so if anyone wantsa ot buy some I have an add posted


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jeust0999 said:


> Skylab,
> 
> Did you find similarities between the Decware amps? The CSP2 and your Mini-Torii?


 


  Not really, and they are very different topologies.  VERY different.  But both do sound very good, with the right headphones.


----------



## dukja

I did get Tung sol 5Y3GT just because of your post long ago.  I found it seemed to inject some brutal force in the bass department.  In Mozart's flute concerto No.1, the string bass was so "violent" (in terms of the impact and rumble) that I was quite surprised by it.  However, it's mid and high was less sweet in comparison to Sylvania 5U4G. 
   
  I just tried Tung sol 5Y3G again and it does do good for Sanit Saen's piece.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I really liked the Sylvania 5Y3G.  I found 5Y3's worked best for me in the CSP-2.


----------



## PanamaRed

Pulled the trigger today on one for my office. Now the wait begins...


----------



## Who?

You won't be disappointed! I am also using the Tung Sol 5Y3GT. I still can't figure out which one I like the most. The 5Y3G by Sylvania has las impact (base wise) and is to me, a little more transparent because of that. Though the Tung Sol is great for music which has nice bass lines.
   
  Maybe I can fine-tune the sound by changing my Mullards CV 2493's in to...?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





who? said:


> You won't be disappointed! I am also using the Tung Sol 5Y3GT. I still can't figure out which one I like the most. The 5Y3G by Sylvania has las impact (base wise) and is to me, a little more transparent because of that. Though the Tung Sol is great for music which has nice bass lines.
> 
> Maybe I can fine-tune the sound by changing my Mullards CV 2493's in to...?


 


  I like the Sylvania 5Y3G and use the 5U4G the most I have Mullard 2492 try changing to Genelex 6922 sound fantastic and may be better than the Mullards I own also another is the Sylvania 6Dj8 which Rob turned me on too also/


----------



## Who?

You talk highly of the Genalex 6922's! Maybe I should give it a go when I have enough funds for it. I was thinking about changing my input tubes into 6922's. Thanks fo the heads up. Any other tubes that people might recommend?


----------



## PanamaRed

Does anyone have any experience pairing this Amp with the Matrix Mini-I DAC?
   
  Thanks guys


----------



## PanamaRed

It will be 5 weeks on monday that my CSP2+ has been on order ... the wait is killing me ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  But I have managed to start a small collection of tubes to roll. As far as rectifiers has anyone had any experience with a Bendix 6106?


----------



## Skylab

That's their 5Y3WGT, and it's a very nice tube. I have one, and thought it sounded good in the CSP-2.


----------



## PanamaRed

Thanks Skylab. This is another purchase I made because of your recommendation. I even ordered it in Dark Red Mahogany and named you as the advertising source.
   
  I also added the stepped attenuator so this machine set me back a little bit of coin


----------



## sberamji

Question to Skylab and the rest of the headfi community,
   
  I just ordered a CSP-2 to go with my Audio Technica W1000X headphones. What tubes would you recommend? Also was the CSP-2 a good match with the W1000X? Also how can I get the best bang for my buck i.e. should I upgrade the rectifier and stick with the stock power tubes or should I upgrade the power tubes first and stick with the original rectifier that Decware sends with the amp?
   
  I do not want my sound to be too bloated in the midrange. I like the sound to be transparent (but hate it to be thin and lean), have lot of resolution and to time very well.
   
  Sky were you able to try the W1000X with the CSP-2 and how did it mate considering the AT has an impedence of 40 ohms but are easy to drive?
   
  Thanks,
   
  Sam


----------



## Skylab

I don't recall spending much time using the W1000X with the CSP-2 since it's not an ideal match on paper.  The CSP-2 does pretty well with low impedance designs considering it is a OTL amp, but it's still not ideal.


----------



## Frank I

Rob the new CSP-2 has voltage adjustments that ours did not have. According to Steve it  will now play any headphone but I am with you on this my D7000 sounds good on it but I use the Taboo more with the D7000. Now on the 880 600 ohms I am hearing sound closer to the T1 synergy and the OTL really is a special amp with high impedance cans and not too ideal for the lower impedance cans but it will work with the D7000. I am using the Genelex 6922 and the Sylvania 5Y3G little bottle and the sound is black and quiet and very very musical. The Genelex 6922 even though they are new production They are the best new production 6922 since I had the Sovtec in there and those are discontinued but so good also. The 2492 I purchased  are not as good IMO as the Genelex but nice  sounding but IMO New Sensor did something very right with this rugged and  great sounding tube and these are matched and no noise I can hear anoth kudos to Jim Mcshane for his efforts on these gold pin treasures.


----------



## caracara08

doesnt seem many people have tried the + version with low imp headphones?


----------



## BournePerfect

I'm curious as well. Looking for something to drive an AD2000. This would hopefully be a great alternative (at half the cost) to a Zana Deux if indeed the CSP2+ version can drive the AT's with ease...might have to shoot Steve an email...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I'm curious as well. Looking for something to drive an AD2000. This would hopefully be a great alternative (at half the cost) to a Zana Deux if indeed the CSP2+ version can drive the AT's with ease...might have to shoot Steve an email...
> 
> -Daniel


 


  Hi Daniel I would call Steve the Taboo may be better if it is low impedance . But he will tell you for sure.  I like the CSP-2 with Beyer 600 ohms and it did well with the Sennheiser 300 ohms also.


----------



## caracara08

or you can be like Frank and get both! =D


----------



## BournePerfect

Frank I:
   
  I would just be concerned with the gain for the AT's-I wonder how much play I'd have on the volume know. Sure wish you or Rob had heard the + version with the trim pots and whatnot! Although I had the AGD SA-2 (ortho, 6W/50ohm) and I could get up to 9:L30-10 on that with low gain IIRC. I was all set on the Zana Deux, but the CSP2+ and Taboo down the line would make more sense for a future speaker setup. I would love to support Steve-I just wish Head-fi had more Decware impressions, whereas Eddie Current has tons. I REALLY like the look/construction of the Zana Deux-and the fact that it is known to match perfectly with my favorite 'phone (AD2000) makes it seem like a no brainer, but is much more $$. However I would probably be getting the Decware HDT speakers down the road, and am sure the matching amps would be the most ideal in that setting. Decisions decisions.
   
  Any AT owner's have impressions with the Decware amps?
   
   
  -Daniel


----------



## caracara08

If anyone is interested steve offered a new coupon and gave me the okay to post it here. Wait list is 6-8 weeks. 

 However, I have created a coupon for head-fi readers for $25 off a CSP2+ that expires in 30 days (AUG 5th 2011) that you can post if you want!

Code: 08UT1C44 

Originally I was gonna go with a premium wood base but I decided not to and just take the discount. Really great guy and I'm happy he has a good number of builds to make

Edit sorry the first code was used up. This code works. .


----------



## Ultrainferno

Was fun reading this whole thread. Lot's of useful tube info in here.
  thanks, I just might be ordering one (I have to read through the WA2 thread first)
  thanks!


----------



## Lord Soth

Has any CSP2 owner ever compared the Bendix 6106 vs the Tung Sol/Slyvania 5Y3G Family?
   
  Any particular sonic differences?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Has any CSP2 owner ever compared the Bendix 6106 vs the Tung Sol/Slyvania 5Y3G Family?
> 
> Any particular sonic differences?


 


  Never used the Bendix but have used 53YG Sylvania and other brands and I much prefer the 5U$G Sylvania as it is warmer and has  more bass than the 53YG in my rig. If you do try the Bendix please post impressions.


----------



## supra1988t

Just purchased one of these new used and it sounds fantastic.  I just want to be sure I am understanding something correctly: I can use different types of tubes in the driver and buffer positions, correct?  Like a 6n1p for the driver and 6dj8s in the buffers?


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Never used the Bendix but have used 53YG Sylvania and other brands and I much prefer the 5U$G Sylvania as it is warmer and has  more bass than the 53YG in my rig. If you do try the Bendix please post impressions.


 
   
  Hi Frank,
   
  I found this link to be useful when it comes to rolling tube rectifiers.
   
http://www.decware.com/paper56.htm
   
  If you scroll down all the way to the last paragraph, rectifiers of the 5U4G family run the ECC88 tubes at the highest (one extreme) voltages.
   
  If one rolls a 5Y3 class of rectifier, the ECC88 tubes are run at the lowest (the other extreme) possible voltages.
   
  Each ECC88 tube has different sonic characteristics at different voltages and so this kinda adds to the complexity of rolling tube rectifiers.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





supra1988t said:


> Just purchased one of these new used and it sounds fantastic.  I just want to be sure I am understanding something correctly: I can use different types of tubes in the driver and buffer positions, correct?  Like a 6n1p for the driver and 6dj8s in the buffers?


 
  Hi supra1988t,
   
  Yes. You can use a particular tube for the single position (e.g. Russian 6N1) and another class of 2 tubes (e.g. 6DJ8s) for the L/R positions.
   
  They can be of different brands and/or models of the ECC88 family.
   
  For the 2x L/R positions, the tubes should be of the same make though.
  I have ever experimented with 3 different types of tubes. I had excellent tonal and timbre accuracy but the imaging and soundstage was slightly off.
   
  My CSP2+ has left and right volume controls and getting a matched pair of tubes for the L/R position is not really necessary in theory.
  But in practice, I still prefer to used a matched pair because it is easier (at least to me) to maintain a L/R channel volume balance as the L/R individual knobs will produce the same volume as long as I employ the same number of "clicks" for each side.


----------



## Argo Duck

Just a post to register that my CSP2+ arrived two days ago. It was formerly Mad Dude's, built March 2012. Decware transferred the lifetime warranty and checked the unit before sending it on to me.
   
  To echo supra's comment above, it sounds fantastic. It's a revelation with the Beyer' T1s.
   
  Whilst I have respected the T1s lack of stress and sense of unflappability, I've also found them bland and hence they've got much less listening time than my LCD2s.
   
  They're not bland now! I find the transformation almost hard to believe. The CSP2 has brought them to life, much as the Taboo has done for the LCD2.
   
  I guess everything that needs to be said about the CSP2/T1 match has already been said, earlier in this thread. I'll post again in a few weeks if I find anything new to say


----------



## longbowbbs

Mine is in "Parts Pulled" status...Won't be long now!


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Congrats - looking forward to your impressions soon.
   
  I'm going to start rolling away from stock soon, looking for the more neutral but still dynamic sound I prefer. I noticed today some flabbiness in the mid bass from the stock set-up (feeding the T1), although otherwise it continues to sound amazingly good.


----------



## longbowbbs

Upgraded to "On the Bench"!


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I'm going to start rolling away from stock soon, looking for the more neutral but still dynamic sound I prefer. I noticed today some flabbiness in the mid bass from the stock set-up (feeding the T1), although otherwise it continues to sound amazingly good.


 
   
  The stock 6N1Ps have a very warmish type of sound in the CSP2+.
   
  I've rolled extensively (*) with the CSP2+.
   
  In general, if you change the front 1x input tube to a higher spec tube such as a 6922 (e.g. Amperex USA or Philips) or 7308 (e.g. Siemens), the bass will be tighter.
   
  (*) that's what my wallet tells me!


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks Lord Soth. Yes, now the initial shock has worn off I've started to hear this warmth.
   
  As soon as I've got the 'feel' of the stock sound, I've got several Matsu' 6922 I can try as a first shot. MadDude also included the tubes he rolled - likely to be some good options there too.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Argo Duck

Update: I changed out the driver tube to one of the Matsu's mentioned above. Amp is still in stock configuration otherwise. Bass is noticeably more tuneful and tight and highs (upper mids) seem to stand out clearly (but more below). Btw, both these are attributes these 6922s bring to the Lyr as well.
   
  Warmth seems less as well although this 6N1P property was much more noticeable to me when the CSP2 was running into the Taboo. With the LCD2 this was very noticeable, blunting the LCD2's clarity. 
   
  The stand-out from this change of driver tube is attack. This seems a truly fast amp. I haven't A/B'd, but it reminds me a lot of the Corda Concerto which has the most attack of my SS amps. This perception of attack may be the Matsu' bringing more emphasis or definition to the upper mids. Or maybe better attack just naturally highlights these frequencies. Whatever, I don't get the impression of a glaring imbalance here.
   
  I may put Matsu 6922s into the driver positions too, but want to do more formal testing first.
   
  The T1s continue to sound remarkable from the CSP2. I discovered the LCD2 is still my much preferred 'phone, but at least it's a more even contest now.
   
  As implied above, I have done a couple of tests with Taboo. Mostly speakers. I'll report this in the Taboo or Decware appreciation thread next time I get a moment!


----------



## longbowbbs

I got delayed by Zenfest, but it is now Packed!


----------



## longbowbbs

It shipped Friday! OK I expect to spend some time with the stock tubes, but I had to order a few to play with.
   
  So here are the incoming tubes.....
   
3x NEW Genalex Gold Lion E88CC 6922 Vacuum Tubes TESTED, Matched Trio
   
Amplitrex Sylvania 5U4G Black Plates
   
Single Sylvania 5Y3G "ST" Tube
   
any perspective on these?  http://www.sophiaelectric.com/pages/se/274b.htm
   
  BTW, when swapping tubes, how long do you wait for them to cool down before you take one out and replace it with another? Cool to touch? Just wondering....


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> ......
> 
> any perspective on these?  http://www.sophiaelectric.com/pages/se/274b.htm
> 
> BTW, when swapping tubes, how long do you wait for them to cool down before you take one out and replace it with another? Cool to touch? Just wondering....


 
   
  I vaguely recall Skylab over here having experimented with really expensive rectifiers like the 274b.
   
  The conclusion was that it would be better to stick to 5Y3 rectifers coz the CSP2+ was designed around it.
   
  As for swapping tubes, there was some discussion before on the Decware forums.
  Steve actually confirmed that you can yank out the hot tube whilst the CSP2+ is still running.
   
  I'm the more cautious type and would prefer to wait about 10 mins.


----------



## longbowbbs

I can see the "Decware Insulated Glove" order form on their site...


----------



## Skylab

lord soth said:


> I vaguely recall Skylab over here having experimented with really expensive rectifiers like the 274b.
> 
> The conclusion was that it would be better to stick to 5Y3 rectifers coz the CSP2+ was designed around it.
> 
> ...




The Sophia rectifiers are fussy beasts and I didn't like them in the CSP-2 for a variety of reasons. I really do think the 5Y3 family is best in it.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Indeed. Two days ago I substituted the RCA 5Y3GT tube MadDude included with my CSP2. My first change from the stock JJ 5U4G.
   
  According to Steve Deckert's audio paper Lord Soth directed us to, these are the changes to expect:
   
As the voltage changes on this circuit the signature changes from very euphoric and smooth to having more force and weight. Think of the 5Y3GT giving you the most type B [euphoric and smooth] signature possible and a 5U4 tilting the scale to somewhere between a type B and type A [more force and weight], similar to the original circuits signature.
   
  Early days for me with the CSP2 but like Skylab, I _personally_ prefer the 5Y3 out of these two tubes.
   
  When I substituted a Tung Sol 5Y3GT for the same 5U4G in the Taboo, there was an immediate and distinct gain in transparency and immediacy. The RCA seems to have a similar effect with the CSP2_ to my ears_. Maybe type B just happens to be the right fit for my hearing!
   
  BTW, Steve's paper also points out this ingenious feature: The two output tubes like before are dual triodes, but now are wired using only one side of each tube. And the left tube uses the left side, while the right tube uses the right side. This means that after your tubes wear out you can simply swap the left for right channel and you have a fresh set of tubes again! Twice the tube life.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> .......
> 
> BTW, Steve's paper also points out this ingenious feature: The two output tubes like before are dual triodes, but now are wired using only one side of each tube. And the left tube uses the left side, while the right tube uses the right side. This means that after your tubes wear out you can simply swap the left for right channel and you have a fresh set of tubes again! Twice the tube life.


 
   
  I believe that one of the famous Dodd amps are also built like that.
   
  I don't mean any offence but one thing which I can't still come to grips with is that the tubes are akin to light bulbs.
  A dual triode would be equivalent to having 2 light bulbs, one on each side.
  AFAIK, one cannot shut down only one side and leave the other light bulb on.
  As long as the filament for both sides are heated, wouldn't the life span of the so called other "not in use" side be decreased as well?
   
  I hope that some tube guru out there can help explain away this nagging doubt of mine.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I can see the "Decware Insulated Glove" order form on their site...


 
  Yes, in the audio industry, it is the audio accessories which bring in the high margins and big bucks!


----------



## longbowbbs

Custom Silver Litz insulated gloves...


----------



## Lord Soth

After reading positive reviews of the Visseaux French 5Y3GB, I managed to get hold of one such rectifier and installed it in my CSP2+.
  The Visseaux 5Y3 is a lovely rectifier with French aesthetics and reminded me of the Eiffiel Tower.
   
  Unfortunately, the rectifier refused to be turned on. It was basically dead on arrival "DOA".
  My CSP2+ was not damaged in any way though.
   
  I put back my trusty old Tung Sol 5Y3GT and the CSP2+ continued to work as usual.
   
  BTW, this has only proven that the CSP2+ can't be damaged by a DOA rectifier.
   
  However, should the rectifier blow up after installation, there might still be a chance of the CSP2+ being damaged.
  In such a situation, I would expect the fuse to be blown 1st before any other components are taken out.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Custom Silver Litz insulated gloves...


 
  Yes, they must be the Super Cryoed Lambskin gloves which allow audiophiles to tube roll with absolute impunity.
  The silver litz prevents the fragile tube markings and etchings from ever being removed.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Yes, they must be the Super Cryoed Lambskin gloves which allow audiophiles to tube roll with absolute impunity.
> The silver litz prevents the fragile tube markings and etchings from ever being removed.


 
  You saw the same ad!
   
  I need them now...Look what showed up this afternoon!
   
   

   
  Naturally I have to leave for work until Friday night....So a quick listen then I have to leave for a couple of days. This amp was finished right before Zenfest so Steve had it burn in for about 70 hours with the shipped tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  DSOTM sound glorious.....Dang..work SO gets in the way of better things.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






   
  I'll post some more pics tonight when I get to the hotel....Only 306 miles to go.....


----------



## longbowbbs

BTW, it arrived with a USA Made 5U4G (GE) and 3 Chinese Shin-EB 6N1P-EV tubes....


----------



## Argo Duck

I'm sure no-one's offended.
   
  Good point!
   
  I tried googling "tube life". The three main causes of tube-wear seem to be cathode burn-out (the material that supplies the electrons is used up); shorting (potentially disastrous for the rest of the amp); or air entering the tube through an imperfect pin seal.
   
  All these causes seem pretty terminal!
   
  Looking at my 6N1Ps power tubes, both filaments are switched on for sure. I wondered if there had to be voltage (potential difference) at the anode before the cathode would emit its electrons? If so, the cathode coating would not be used up.
   
  From my reading, no! Seems if the filament's turned on then electrons are freed and cathode material is getting used up, even though nothing useful may be happening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The paper I quoted is dated 2004. There's another from 2006 which mentions the revisions that turned the CSP2 into CSP2+. My guess is the 'feature' of only running one side of each power triode got dropped - i.e. both sides were needed again.
   
  Don't know for sure though - a question for the Decware forum, unless anyone here knows the answer?
   
  Quote: 





lord soth said:


> I don't mean any offence but one thing which I can't still come to grips with is that the tubes are akin to light bulbs.
> A dual triode would be equivalent to having 2 light bulbs, one on each side.
> AFAIK, one cannot shut down only one side and leave the other light bulb on.
> As long as the filament for both sides are heated, wouldn't the life span of the so called other "not in use" side be decreased as well?
> ...


----------



## Skylab

If you are actually lighting up both filaments, simply not passing a signal through one of the two will not improve the life of "one section".  If you were literally not firing one of the two filaments in a dual triode, then of course, you would be preserving that "section". But when I had the CSP-2 (not +), both filaments on all tubes were lit.


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks Skylab - makes sense and is what I figured. A nice feature but sounds like it was only implemented for a short time.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> BTW, it arrived with a USA Made 5U4G (GE) and 3 Chinese Shin-EB 6N1P-EV tubes....


 

 I don't think the Chinese made the 6N1P-EV; this is Soviet Military production.


----------



## Lord Soth

In case anyone is interested, I've recently rolled in one of those Black Plates 1950s RCA 5R4GY Rectifier with brown base and square getters.
   
  This rectifier tube is readily available for reasonable prices <US$40 from major online tube retailers or around US$20 if you are lucky on e-bay.
   
  1. Inner Resolution
  Compared with the Tung Sol 5Y3GT, the extreme inner resolution of the RCA 5R4GY blows the 5Y3GT away.
  I can hear the faintest whispers *easily* in the recording studio or venue for live recordings.
  For e.g., the "one, two, three" near the beginning of Brad Paisley's "This is country music" is more distinctive.
  It was already present when using a 5Y3GT but I do not have to strain at all to hear the faintest whispers. 
  BTW, I replaced the Lorenz PCC88 input tube with an Amperex Pinched Waist 6922 for the improvement in midrange and top-end extension.
  However, I lost that magical inner resolution of the Lorenz PCC88.
  With the 5R4GY, I have gained back the magical extreme inner resolution of the Lorenz PCC88.
  If you are the type of audiophile who wants to hear everything in a recording, e.g. the girlish giggling from a member of the audience in one of Brandi Carlile's live recordings, the 5R4GY is highly recommended.
   
  2. Vertical Dimension to Soundstage
  Another plus point is that it adds a spatial vertical dimension to recordings.
  The CSP2+ already excels in left-right channel separation.
  However, when using the 5Y3 family of valves which it was originally designed for, the vertical dimension is not pronounced enough for me.
  I vaguely recall Skylab having mentioned this weakness of the CSP2+ when he reviewed it.
  After I added the 5R4GY, when I listened to Hotel California by the Eagles, somewhere in the beginning of the track, the sonic "swish"/ "swhosh" sound effect not only appears on the left ( as when using the 5Y3) but now seems to move in a spiral (i.e. with distinctive High-low height) fashion on the left side.
  The original vertical sonic dimension weakness appears to have been "fixed" through the use of the 5R4GY.


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks LS - great observations as usual.
   
  Coincidentally, I've been considering (Phillips) 5R4GY tubes this week. Knowing I like the 5Y3GT sound, I wanted to cover the opposite voltage extreme - the 5U4G end.
   
  Food for thought...
   
  Skylab (if you're listening), did you ever try these or other members of 5U4G family?


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I tried a Tung-Sol and Sylvania 5U4G. But I preferred the 5Y3G.


----------



## longbowbbs

Just got my Sylvania JAN 5Y3G in the mail today. It is in and working the burn....


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks Skylab. I think 5Y3G is my preference too, but should probably try one of these 5R4s just to make sure. Never hurts to have an option too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Completely OT but do you still have the Mjolnir lined up for review on Inner Fidelity? There have been some useful impressions but overall I think the new Schiit gear has been sold a little short. I have only gained a vague idea of their sound. Mjolnir deserves your careful, consistent listening methods and skills...


----------



## Skylab

Unfortunately, that review did not materialize. As of today I have never heard a Mjolnir, sadly. My next review will be the Cary HH-1.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I think 5Y3G is my preference too, but should probably try one of these 5R4s just to make sure. Never hurts to have an option too


 
   
  I came across Kevin Deal's Upscale audio Advertisement for the Philips 5R4GYS.

 When they made the statement "The best buy and best made 5AR4/5U4G/GZ33/GZ37 that we have or ever had", I knew that I had to try it for myself.

 I'm burning in the Philips 5R4GYS now. Will post comparisons vs my other RCA 5R4GY very soon.
   
  As the Americans say, *show me the color of your money! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*
   
  I intend to do a serious shootout between the Philips 5R4GYS and the RCA 5R4GY.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Unfortunately, that review did not materialize. As of today I have never heard a Mjolnir, sadly. My next review will be the Cary HH-1.


 
   
  Hi Skylab, I too look forward to your audio reviews too!
   
  Cary has always been one of those established brands in the audio industry.
  Would really love to hear your expert opinion of their HH-1 model.


----------



## Argo Duck

Lord Soth, truly looking forward to this shootout - cheers!
   
  Skylab, seriously? That is a shame. Excellent to see you reviewing in a channel other than head-fi, especially one as good as Inner Fidelity.
   
  Back on topic, Kevin Deal also has the Mullard CV2493... 
   
  Is this a neutral, transparent, detailed sort of tube...or more lush and colored?
  Do you only need one, or to get the benefit do you three - for the power-tube positions too?
   
  I know there are more expensive tubes, but these are still serious money at $100 each (matched and balanced)


----------



## longbowbbs

Just got in 3 matched 6922 Golden Lions and wouldn't you know it, one was DOA...Loud pops after the 20 seconds and they would not stop. I called Steve and talked about new tube behavior. When I held the HP's up to the phone he said that did not sound good. Anyway, I moved one of the good ones into the front position and replaced the 6N1P's back to the L/R. I also swapped out the JAN Sylvania 5Y3G for a JAN Sylvania 5U4G....Wow did things open up! 
   
  Listening to Adele 21 now and I went from a club to a hall...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  We'll see if Yen Audio is good about returns for the single GL as I don't want to flush $35 for that tube.....


----------



## Skylab

Try the Mullard just in the driver position first. It's a lush tube, more than neutral.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> I came across Kevin Deal's Upscale audio Advertisement for the Philips 5R4GYS.
> 
> When they made the statement "The best buy and best made 5AR4/5U4G/GZ33/GZ37 that we have or ever had", I knew that I had to try it for myself.


 
   
  Such bs marketing! The tube is not a 5AR4, not a 5U4G, not a GZ33, and, guess what, not a GZ37 either.


----------



## longbowbbs

but.....if the parameters of the tube are compatible with the amp......


----------



## clowkoy

Quote: 





skylab said:


> If you are actually lighting up both filaments, simply not passing a signal through one of the two will not improve the life of "one section".  If you were literally not firing one of the two filaments in a dual triode, then of course, you would be preserving that "section". But when I had the CSP-2 (not +), both filaments on all tubes were lit.


 

 I think what makes the CSP2+ sound so good is Steve's ingenious way of powering the heaters with only 4.35 volts.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Interesting comment. What follows from this do you think? Does it lengthen tube life? Change the sound?
   
  Still enjoying your Bottlehead?


----------



## clowkoy

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> ^ Interesting comment. What follows from this do you think? Does it lengthen tube life? Change the sound?
> 
> Still enjoying your Bottlehead?


 
  You guessed it. The starved filaments will reduce heat, increase life and increase even order harmonics.
 Yup, I just sold the Taboo 2 weeks ago.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Just got in 3 matched 6922 Golden Lions and wouldn't you know it, one was DOA...Loud pops after the 20 seconds and they would not stop. I called Steve and talked about new tube behavior. When I held the HP's up to the phone he said that did not sound good. Anyway, I moved one of the good ones into the front position and replaced the 6N1P's back to the L/R. I also swapped out the JAN Sylvania 5Y3G for a JAN Sylvania 5U4G....Wow did things open up!
> 
> Listening to Adele 21 now and I went from a club to a hall...
> 
> ...


 

 That guy Yen was banned under similiar name on  ebay for taking lots of money and not delivering the goods. I would only buy the golden lion 6922 fro m Jim Mcshane in Chicago he matches and test better than anyone. Mine are stikll good two and half years later and dead quiet.


----------



## longbowbbs

Two of them are fine. I sent the dead one back and he said he was sending a replacement. We'll see.


----------



## Lord Soth

[size=medium]I carried out a rectifier shootout on my CSP2+.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]All the following rectifier tubes were burned in for >24 hrs each[/size]
   
  [size=medium]1. RCA – JAN 5R4GY 2x "D" Getter Black Plates (1950s or earlier ??)[/size]
  [size=medium]2. Philips 5R4GYS Grey Plates Round Dimple Getter (1970s)[/size]
  [size=medium]3. Brimar 5R4GY 2x "D" Getter Black Plates (1950s)[/size]
   
  [size=medium]and compared against my default rectifier[/size]
  [size=medium]4. Tung Sol 5Y3GT Black Plates "D" Getter (1950s).[/size]
   
  [size=medium]My CSP2+ uses the following default tubes[/size]
   
  [size=medium]2x Siemens E188CC Grey Shields for the L/R position[/size]
  [size=medium]1x Amperex *USA Pinched Waist "D" Getter for the input position.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]My Audio Chain is as follows :-[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Oppo BDP 95 > Soundsilver Symmetry RCA Cables > CSP2+ > Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohms[/size]
   
  [size=medium]This audio shootout is based on headphone usage so YMMV if you are using your CSP2+ as a preamp.[/size]
   
*[size=medium]1. RCA - JAN 5R4GY 2x "D" Getter Black Plates (1950s or earlier ??)[/size]*
  [size=medium]This contributes to the largest soundstage of all the rectifiers.[/size]
  [size=medium]The spatial height dimension is most pronounced here.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Mids are neutral, so if you like a neutral sound and use your CSP2 as a preamp, this might be your ticket.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Bass is not boomy but is impactful and tight.[/size]
  [size=medium]Drums have elastic quality.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Instrument separation is excellent (the best of this lot) and very distinct.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Nice Airy sound to Cello strings.[/size]
   
*[size=medium]2. Philips 5R4GYS Grey Plates Round Dimple Getter (1970s)[/size]*
  [size=medium]This is _*the*_ rectifier tube according to Kevin Deal of Upscale audio.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Compared with the neutral RCA tube above, the mids now have a very wonderful dose of tube warmth added to them. [/size]
  [size=medium]The mids are so organic that many users are likely to get audio orgasms from using this rectifier.[/size]
  [size=medium]This is one of those tubes for female vocals which help convey emotion and draw the listener into the music.[/size]
  [size=medium]I can thus understand why so many positive reviews have been posted on Kevin Deal's website.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Instrumental strings have a very nice airy reverberation.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Instrument separation is good but not as distinct as the above-mentioned RCA rectifier. This is just a minor quibble.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Bass is impactful, tight and not too boomy.[/size]
   
*[size=medium]3. Brimar 5R4GY 2x "D" Getter Black Plates (1950s) Made in UK[/size]*
  [size=medium]Short history lesson here.[/size]
  [size=medium]There are 2 Great ones in the tube rectifier world.[/size]
  [size=medium](a) WE 274B[/size]
  [size=medium](b) GEC/Marconi U52[/size]
   
  [size=medium]The Brimar 5R4GY has earned (not just from me) itself a rather legendary reputation where tube rectifiers are concerned.[/size]
  [size=medium]Yes, this is one of *those *tubes which can be mentioned in the same breath as the above 2. [/size]
  [size=medium](and YES, in case you are wondering, the Mullard GZ34s are over-rated and over priced....but that is another story [/size]
   
  [size=medium]Ok. History lesson over.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Back to this tube.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]If you thought the mids of the Philips 5R4GYS were really organic and wonderful in a tube warmth kind of way, then the mids from the Brimar tube are really to die for.[/size]
  [size=medium]This is where the Brimar rectifier earns its reputation for being WE 274b "like".[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Bass sounds from this tube is the most "3D" like with Depth, Width and Height. Drums are not just a simple "thumph" but have tone as well![/size]
   
  [size=medium]The tonality (especially string instruments) from this tube is the most realistic sounding.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Instrument separation is good but not as distinct as the above-mentioned RCA rectifier. This is just a minor quibble.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Bass is impactful, tight and not too boomy.[/size]
   
   
*[size=medium]4. Tung Sol 5Y3GT Black Plates "D" Getter (1950s)[/size]*
  [size=medium]The CSP2+ was designed to use 5Y3 rectifiers.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]No surprises that in my system, the already highly rated Tung Sol sounds just as good as the Brimar rectifier in almost every department.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]The Tung Sol rectifier does lose out to the RCA rectifier in terms of soundstage though, especially in the relative lack of height.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Ermm, what I'm trying to say is that before you rush out to grab that Brimar 5R4GY rectifier for your CSP2, you can get most of the sonics from using a humble Tung Sol 5Y3 instead.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]However, the mids of the the Brimar are still the best organic sounding of all the rectifiers I tested.[/size]
   
*[size=medium]Epilogue a.k.a Rectifier Shootout #2[/size]*
  [size=medium]I have another (non Decware) SE EL34 based tube amp for my speaker setup which is designed around the 5U4 rectifier.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]After the rectifier shoot-out in the CSP2+, I carried out a similar one for my speaker amp.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]For that other shootout, the Brimar rectifier totally obliterated the competition. [/size]
  [size=medium]Every other member in my family literally asked me what I did to my audio system to make it sound so organic and rich and inject a *hypnotic presence *to the sound.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]The mids from the Philips 5R4GY still sounded warm and organic.[/size]
  [size=medium]This is consistent with the tons of accolades from Kevin Deal's customers who have used the Philips 5R4 on external speaker amps.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]However, the Brimar takes the mids to a whole different higher level, into the Stratosphere of the legendary WE 274B and GEC U52 but without the cost![/size]
   
  [size=medium]So if you have a speaker amp which uses the 5U4, the Brimar 5R4GY is highly recommended. The next best thing would probably be a Philips 5R4GY from Kevin Deal.[/size]


----------



## longbowbbs

Very nice Lord Soth! Looks like the Brimar is tough to find. Naturally...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So far I am enjoying my Jan Sylvania 5U4G....Great to have some choices.


----------



## Lord Soth

Hi longbowbbs,

The brimar valve shows up regularly on EBay UK.

I picked up a couple of NOS tested ones from various UK sellers.

The British seem to have lots of those hidden in their garage. LOL

Likewise for the GEC U52 and Mullard GZ34 which are currently over-inflated in prices.

The Brimar rectifier is still available for reasonable prices at less than US$80 if you are lucky.


----------



## longbowbbs

Thanks Lord Soth! I will expand my e-bay search to the UK. Love the garage comment. I am waiting for the Storage Wars TV show to show someone buying a sight unseen storage unit full of valves and they have no idea what to do with them...


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Thanks Lord Soth! I will expand my e-bay search to the UK. Love the garage comment. I am waiting for the Storage Wars TV show to show someone buying a sight unseen storage unit full of valves and they have no idea what to do with them...


 
  you can buy them on ebay from langrex in the UK. 107.00 US


----------



## longbowbbs

Thanks Frank!


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





frank i said:


> you can buy them on ebay from langrex in the UK. 107.00 US


 
   
  Do they have the correct vintage?
   
  (asking, because Langrex date codes are 1970's manufacture)


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Do they have the correct vintage?
> 
> (asking, because Langrex date codes are 1970's manufacture)


 

 shoot them an email


----------



## longbowbbs

I forgot to post these here....
   
  BTW, Group buy for the 596 in the Woo Forum led by Silent One.....


----------



## Silent One

In their original boxes...


----------



## longbowbbs

I bought an adapter from 2359Glenn to convert from the quad to Octal pin settings. It works great.


----------



## Silent One

*The sale of the USAF-596 rectifiers just went final!*




   
  0545 hours PST.


----------



## Argo Duck

Just curious, has anyone tried the 5Y3GT rectifier with 6DJ8 (ECC88) power tubes and had problems such as sparking at switch on, or noise (independent of volume setting) like you get with a tiring tube etc?


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Just curious, has anyone tried the 5Y3GT rectifier with 6DJ8 (ECC88) power tubes and had problems such as sparking at switch on, or noise (independent of volume setting) like you get with a tiring tube etc?


 
   
  I use a Mullard old shield logo E88CC & tried a handful of 5Y3GT's, 5R4GY's, and 5U4G's. No problems. But I have heard the ECC88's are finicky and prefer not to use them due to the lower resiliency.


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks Nick! I bought Mad Dude's near new CSP2+ from him last year, after it was checked and re-warranted by Decware. He had problems of the sort described above.

Last week I rolled two pairs of mid-60s RCA 6DJ8 into the power positions. One from each pair sparked. I put the first one down to a bad tube. Didn't know what to think of the second. Then last night I tried a pair of Amperex Orange Globes. No sparking, but lots of noise. Nevertheless, they sounded terrific with rock - much better than the stock 6N1Ps - but obviously no good for classical.

Disconcertingly, this mirrored Mad Dude's experience. *However*, remembering different rectifiers provide different voltage points, I decided to roll back (from MD's RCA 5Y3GT) to the stock 5U4G. Problem gone, though sound not quite as good.

Judging from your experience, this is a specific problem with MD's rectifier rather than with the 5Y3GT/6DJ8 combination. This one tube may have been MD's problem all along - and I must say it didn't occur to me to question the rectifier last week!

I'll try another 5Y3GT to confirm. Thanks again


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Just curious, has anyone tried the 5Y3GT rectifier with 6DJ8 (ECC88) power tubes and had problems such as sparking at switch on, or noise (independent of volume setting) like you get with a tiring tube etc?


 
  I have Buge Boys in there 6dj8 now and I have used the 5y3G with no issues but i prer the 5U4G and the bugle Boys.  No issue for me with the 6dj8


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Thanks Nick! I bought Mad Dude's near new CSP2+ from him last year, after it was checked and re-warranted by Decware. He had problems of the sort described above.
> 
> Last week I rolled two pairs of mid-60s RCA 6DJ8 into the power positions. One from each pair sparked. I put the first one down to a bad tube. Didn't know what to think of the second. Then last night I tried a pair of Amperex Orange Globes. No sparking, but lots of noise. Nevertheless, they sounded terrific with rock - much better than the stock 6N1Ps - but obviously no good for classical.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ha! Awesome... he's a cool dude and wound up buying my Mapletree Signature Edition #250. "It's a small small Head-Fi world"
   
  I briefly experienced one tube arcing incident when I swapped a 7308 in place of one 6N1P driver tube. I can't remember which rectifier was in place. Regardless, it only happened that one time & I've swapped other 6922's in the driver positions without incident. So.... not sure what the issue was.
   
  In my experience, it wasn't worthwhile to swap out the 6N1P drivers. I used three Mullard old shield E88CC's but the sound was similar enough that I reverted back to the 6N1P's as drivers and kept the one Mullard up front. Better to roll the rectifier than triple the expense of a good signal tube.
   
  Favorite rectifiers (so far) that I actively use: Brimar 5R4GY for pure midrange beauty and RCA 5Y3GT black base red label for more detail without sacrificing midrange and lower extension
   
  I also recommend the RCA 5U4G black base as a low cost Brimar alternative... good all-round
   
  Didn't like: Tung Sol 5Y3GT had a "hi fi" tonality extended at both ends but otherwise meh
  Sylvania 5Y3GT red label a bit steely w/not enough lushness in the midrange
  RCA 5R4GY brown base too sloppy in the lower end & so-so detail retrieval
  Philips 5R4GYS impressively detailed but neither sweet nor lush and suffered from unacceptably light bass


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks Frank - listening to them with the (Chinese) 5U4G right now, and indeed no problems.

Later going to try the Tung Sol 5Y3GT from my Taboo in there to confirm (a) it's problem free (if so, then Mad Dude had a bad NOS 5Y3GT) and (b) I still think it sounds better than the 5U.

Of course, the 5U4G not being NOS - whereas I'm sure yours is - is another factor. Right now I only have these tubes stock - three of them!


----------



## Argo Duck

*Followup:* I rolled in my Tung Sol 5Y3GT, fully confident there would be no problem.

Alas, two distinct sparks in one of the power tubes . The power tubes were worse than with the RCA 5Y3GT, where I 'only' got hissing.

So, given Nick and Frank have had few or no problems with the 5Y3GT/6DJ8 combination, I think my CSP2 is partly faulty, much as MadDude found. (Nick, I take your point about the ECC88s being finicky though).

Still, they sound terrific with the 5U4G - and the Taboo sounds fantastic fed by the CSP2 in this form too.

That's a positive gain. The second is I know a bit more than MadDude did about the nature of the problem.

*Nick*, thanks for your extensive notes - really helpful! As the 5U4G is obviously 'the one for me' ATM, I'll follow up your RCA recommendation.

Btw, like you I previously concluded the two power tubes weren't worth changing, and had only been experimenting with the driver (an Amperex 6DJ8 BB right now)...except...the power tube change actually *has* made a big difference to the Taboo., e.g. the drumming and bass work in Led Zeppelin is now so textured and detailed I really 'get' how much Bonham and Jones contributed to Zep's sound. They were more than just a tight rhythm section - they were playing tunes in the engine room just as much as Plant and Page were up front.

Oh, and been following your experiences of the Concero with interest.


----------



## Frank I

I use the Sylvania 5U4G and also have a Tungsol 5u4G all NOS. I have been using the Sylvania the bass is outstanding as well as the mids and treble. The Bugle Boys are special tubes and really bring to life the CSP2 but there are also good alternatives with the Sylvania 6DJ8,Genelex 6922 and the Matsusita 6922. IfgI were you I would swap out the tubes and makes sure you buy from reputable tube dealers. I use Jim Mcshane for new production tubes and Chris Johnson for NOS at Parts Connexion. He had selected and matched the bugle boys for no noise and is reasonable too.  I think you limiting the CSP2 with the stock tubes/ You will notice a major difference when swapping them out. If your problem continues you need to send the amp in.


----------



## longbowbbs

+1 on the Genalex 6922's. I have one in the front driver slot. Talked to Steve and he thought it was a good fit with the stock 6N1P's in the L/R positions. I really liked the Jan Sylvania 5U4G but the USAF-596 has wonderful tight bass.


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks guys. Yes, the tubes I've bought myself (Upscale, Tubemonger etc) have generally worked out. I don't really know where MadDude got his - presumably European sources.

Decware checked this amp on its way to me, but I think they didn't have the crucial information (problem specifically happens with non-6N1P in the power positions and with 5Y3GT rectification). For sure, the stock set-up has no problems, and this is the configuration they use to test, I understand.

Earlier in this thread, when MadDude had the original problem, there was an interesting comment concerning the design of the CSP2. 

*/start speculation/* I actually suspect part of the secret of these amps' performance is that they "push the envelope". That is, they're getting a little close to the edge of instability. */end speculation/* I used to be a programmer, and the best performing code was not generally the safest, clearest or most maintainable code!! Add to this the uncertainty inherent in the quality of the tubes, as Frank highlights, and well...

All of this is something I'm happy to live with *because of* the performance, although I agree my unit will probably need repair at some point - definitely so if I ever sell it. Gotta love the lifetime warranty!


----------



## figaro69

Have the csp2 and taboo. Csp2 tubes are three 6922/CV2493 nos Mullards and an RCA 5Y3GT mid 1950s rectifier. The taboo has two EL84 nos mullards, a sylvania 5751, and the same rectifier as in the csp2. The only headphones that are great marches with the csp2 are the hd800 and T1. Anything with lower impedance (including the akg701) sound like crud and badly distort, especially with large orchestral pieces (Mahler) and choral works (dies irae from Verdi's requiem). The T1s have never sounded better...truly magical pairing. The Taboo is pretty good with almost everything else (and does great too with the T1 and hd800). The LCD 2 sounds amazing out of the taboo. There is a small problem with low impedance high sensitivity cans such as Fostex th900 and ath3000anv...a slight hum at louder volumes. By the way, the taboo is a disaster with the HE-6...maybe if you plug them to the speaker terminals would you get the supposed watts of power.


----------



## Argo Duck

Frank I found his taboo couldn't drive the HE6 iirc. It seems insane power is needed, beyond the taboo's two watts plus into 50 ohms. I've heard some think the 4w (50 ohm) schiit lyr isn't enough. Most seem to use speaker amps of 50w (8 ohms) or more, translating to 8w 50 ohms assuming a near-zero output impedance.

I suspect the new taboo has more power, but enough??

Agree csp2/t1 and taboo/lcd2 are terrific pairings.


----------



## Frank I

The Taboo could only drive small jazz and folk with the he6 but demanding music would make the he6 clip. I would not try to use the Taboo with the he6. I do not believe the power is sufficient  and is very stressful on the taboo.


----------



## figaro69

I truly feel that if you have the cps2 and the Taboo you don't really need another amp unless you want to: (1) go on a quest for El Dorado and the Holy Grail in trying to find an adequate amp for the HE-6s; or (2) you want to go the Stax route in the search for musical nirvana. By the way, it seems odd that while the EF-6 amp was specifically designed to drive the HE-6, it fails miserably in that regard since it starts to clip and distort in big orchestral climaxes. Although the Schiit lyr is better, it still clips a little. In my quest for the holy grail I've ordered the Ray Samuels Dark Star to drive the He-6...if it fails like all the others, I vow to destroy the HE-6s with a sledge hammer and then check into the local insane asylum...in my opinion, headphones were not intended to be driven through speaker terminals.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





figaro69 said:


> I truly feel that if you have the cps2 and the Taboo you don't really need another amp unless you want to: (1) go on a quest for El Dorado and the Holy Grail in trying to find an adequate amp for the HE-6s; or (2) you want to go the Stax route in the search for musical nirvana.


 
   
  Yep...Looking forward to El Dorado in May!.....


----------



## figaro69

longbowbbs said:


> Yep...Looking forward to El Dorado in May!.....


 you mean the darkstar or some other piece of glittering gold?


----------



## longbowbbs

Darkstar? No...Another piece of glittering gold, YES! The new Decware Taboo Mk III is on order to pair with my CSP2+


----------



## figaro69

longbowbbs said:


> Darkstar? No...Another piece of glittering gold, YES! The new Decware Taboo Mk III is on order to pair with my CSP2+


Looks amazing. So it's supposed to drive the HE-6, eh? I'm not even sure if the darkstar will work out for me, since the Lyr, Mjolnir, and EF-6 all claimed to be the HE-6 dragon slayers and the dragon ended up smoking them alive. How many watts per channel with the new Taboo?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





figaro69 said:


> Looks amazing. So it's supposed to drive the HE-6, eh? I'm not even sure if the darkstar will work out for me, since the Lyr, Mjolnir, and EF-6 all claimed to be the HE-6 dragon slayers and the dragon ended up smoking them alive. How many watts per channel with the new Taboo?


 
  Trust me this is not being designed to handle the he6. Steve has the lcd2 and thats what he used to voice and design the amp. It will  not have the necessary watts to drive the he6. I know the last one ended up getting stressed out with the HE doing wide range dynamic recordings. 4.6 watts into 8 ohms so if someone knows how to do the math is probably a watt or less into 50 ohms


----------



## figaro69

frank i said:


> Trust me this is not being designed to handle the he6. Steve has the lcd2 and thats what he used to voice and design the amp. It will  not have the necessary watts to drive the he6. I know the last?? one ended up getting stressed out with the HE doing wide range dynamic recordings. 4.6 watts into 8 ohms so if someone knows how to do the math is probably a watt or less into 50 ohms


That's what I though. Are my eyes seeing correctly? So the new taboo is going to have balanced outs for headphones?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





figaro69 said:


> That's what I though. Are my eyes seeing correctly? So the new taboo is going to have balanced outs for headphones?


 
  Yes 3 pin dual stock or 4 pin single.


----------



## longbowbbs

I ordered dual single 4 pin. It also has 2 SE outputs on either side in the back. You could have 4 HP's going at the same time....Party anyone?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I ordered dual single 4 pin. It also has 2 SE outputs on either side in the back. You could have 4 HP's going at the same time....Party anyone?


 
  cool. Me and my brother in law are listening to the two planers now on the V200 and its good when you have someone over and they want to experience the headphones. We are using the binaural recordings I have in the house now


----------



## longbowbbs

Very nice! I am actually looking forward to being able to share what is playing. I enjoy my speakers (M&K and Vandersteen) but there is something about headphones....


----------



## figaro69

Question: does Decware have anything in its stable that can for sure drive the HE-6 through a single ended headphone jack?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





figaro69 said:


> Question: does Decware have anything in its stable that can for sure drive the HE-6 through a single ended headphone jack?


 
  Nope. You can buy the 25w SET and use the speaker taps


----------



## figaro69

frank i said:


> Nope. You can buy the 25w SET and use the speaker taps


well, just give Steve a couple of years...I'm pretty sure he'll come up with something.


----------



## longbowbbs

Wonder if you can speaker tap the new Mono's?
   
  http://www.decware.com/newsite/TORIIMONO.html


----------



## Lorspeaker

what does CSP in the "CSP2+" means....? 
   
  just fought off a bunch of guys n hauled back a CSP2+ from the thriftshop.
  stocktubes....hmmm, roasting them for 6 hours since.
  or should i toss them out??
   
  Is there a hollygrail set of tubes that i should get to make this CSP sing?  i know there are 30pages to pour thru..zzz
   
  ========================================================================
   
  ( noob question...can i use a 12AU7 tube for the first tube near the volume knob?? )


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Don't use a 12AU7. CSP2+ uses 6922 variants.
   
  I recommend a 1960's-era Mullard Old Shield E88CC up front, stock 6N1P-EV drivers, and either an Emission Labs 5U4G ($$$ but good) or RCA 5Y3GT (cheap but good) rectifier.


----------



## longbowbbs

Congrats on your find!
   
  I have the Stock Russian 6N1P's in the L/R positions. A Genelax Golden Lion 6922 up front and a USAF 596 with adapter in the Rectifier spot.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Don't use a 12AU7. CSP2+ uses 6922 variants.
> 
> I recommend a 1960's-era Mullard Old Shield E88CC up front, stock 6N1P-EV drivers, and either an Emission Labs 5U4G ($$$ but good) or RCA 5Y3GT (cheap but good) rectifier.


 
  Mullard 50bucks infront...EML 250bucks behind... keep the stock russian in betwix....ok thats tempting really..
  Mullard has a romantic draw for me, dunno y, maybe its the name...Moooolarrrd.
   
  i guess this combo will sound SWEET, involving??


----------



## Lorspeaker

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Congrats on your find!
> 
> I have the Stock Russian 6N1P's in the L/R positions. A Genelax Golden Lion 6922 up front and a USAF 596 with adapter in the Rectifier spot.


 
   
  THe russian tubes are robust and stable for the centre huh, both of u are saying that. 
  Put a lion infront and the Airforce behind.. ok
   
  how does this combo sound like? brief description?


----------



## Lorspeaker

i am getting intermittent connection on the front 1/4" socket....( mine is front entry)
  when i try to insert the BTG plug, i need to twist n twirl until i get a good stereo connect.
  when i use the hd650 plug, it went in snug n nice...no issues at all...big great sound.
  when i plug in a superlux 681 evo 1/4" adaptor, i get a very poor stereo..gave up on this chinese plug.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lorspeaker said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It is a combo that Steve Deckert recommends. You get the smoothness of the 6N1P's with the slam from the 6922. Nice combo.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lorspeaker said:


> i am getting intermittent connection on the front 1/4" socket....( mine is front entry)
> when i try to insert the BTG plug, i need to twist n twirl until i get a good stereo connect.
> when i use the hd650 plug, it went in snug n nice...no issues at all...big great sound.
> when i plug in a superlux 681 evo 1/4" adaptor, i get a very poor stereo..gave up on this chinese plug.


 
  Hmmm. I am having no trouble with Stock or Furutech....


----------



## Lorspeaker

quick question, are u guys getting good sound/good bass on the LCD2 paired with CSP2+? 
  ie ...is the csp2 able to power the LCD2 reasonably sufficient...?


----------



## Argo Duck

I've never tried, as the CSP2/+ is not for orthos (per Decware's site/Steve Deckert's notes).

When the LCD2 was first released Skylab did an excellent review with (typically) comparisons across a range of amps. He found the CSP2 rolled off too much IIRC, which I think he attributed to OTL designs not suiting orthos.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I've never tried, as the CSP2/+ is not for orthos (per Decware's site/Steve Deckert's notes).
> 
> When the LCD2 was first released Skylab did an excellent review with (typically) comparisons across a range of amps. He found the CSP2 rolled off too much IIRC, which I think he attributed to OTL designs not suiting orthos.


 
   
  So far the CSP2+ on stock tubes, scores very well with T1 , hd650, Grado 225 easily, no problems at all.
   
  pro900 and d7000....i have to tune down the 2channel gains, and dial up the vol knob before i could control the bass. otherwise the bass sounds perforated at my listening vol,
  pro900 borderline good,
  d7000 borderline fail to acceptable at lower volume.
   
  LCD2 sounded perforated totally...failed.
   
  ===========================================
   
  which tube would allow me to play the CSP2+ at a louder volume?/ or better power?? 
   (my goal is to get a solid grip on the d7k..my fav can )  anyone has good success on the d7k?


----------



## ManAtWork

In my rig, I switched between Bugle Boy 6DJ8 or Telefunken 6922 at front, and keep the 6N1P for L&R, this works very well and improved the weakness of 6N1P. The headphones sound perfectly are T1 (Never heard it sounds such good in other amplifiers), HD650 (esp. with Cardas Clear Light cable), DT880.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





manatwork said:


> In my rig, I switched between Bugle Boy 6DJ8 or Telefunken 6922 at front, and keep the 6N1P for L&R, this works very well and improved the weakness of 6N1P. The headphones sound perfectly are T1 (Never heard it sounds such good in other amplifiers), HD650 (esp. with Cardas Clear Light cable), DT880.


 
  That seems to be the sweet spot for the CSP2+. 6N1P's in the Driver slot and 6922's for the L/R output.


----------



## Lorspeaker

longbowbbs said:


> That seems to be the sweet spot for the CSP2+. 6N1P's in the Driver slot and 6922's for the L/R output.





U meant the 6n1ps in the L/R ...right? 

Yaa, the T1, hd650, beyers are fine even on the stock tubes 
I relishing to hear how farrrrrr better it's gonna go with better tubes$$ 

====================================

Anyone mastered the denons on this amp with some tube combo? 
 Or it's marginally beyond the design of this amp...?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lorspeaker said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes....Too early for cogent thought!


----------



## ManAtWork

While the 6N1P tubes remain in L&R because of its very low noise characteristic, I have consulted Steve and he said his 6N1P stock tubes are selected tubes with very great noise level, which most NOS tubes couldn't match. The L&R output in CSP2+ are very sensitive with noisy tubes, that's why I keep the 6N1P there. However, the sound can be improved by using Bugle Boy for better dynamic; or Telefunken for better clarity.
   
  Frankly, I failed to find any very low noise NOS 6922 tubes in market, and stop for further experiment due to the high cost of premium 6922 NOS tubes.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am enjoying the Genelax Golden Lion 6922 in the front.


----------



## Lorspeaker

hi guys, anyone tried this on the front tube of csp2+...J_AN-GE 5751 , _ can it be used??


----------



## longbowbbs

According to the CSP2+ Manual their are 3 tube types that work for the Input and driver slots. The Stock 6N1P, the 6922 and the 6DJ8.


----------



## Skylab

The 5751 absolutely CANNOT be used. The 5751 is a variant of the 12AX7, which is a 12 volt triode. The CSP2 uses the 6V 6DJ8/6922 type.


----------



## Lorspeaker

thanks bros.....


----------



## ManAtWork

Think that your guys have received the announcement of CSP3 which has been produced for all in waiting list for CSP2+ originally. I have asked Steve regarding the difference in technical what a CSP3 compared with CSP2+. Here is his answer, *all CSP2+ owners can have peace of mind in knowing that the actual circuit remains unchanged, and hence the sound.  It's hard to improve such a great circuit.  The layout is of course different on the CSP3 making it more ergonomic to use.  The only option that is available on the CSP3 that wasn't available on the CSP2 and CSP2+ is the Beeswax caps.  These can be installed in both units now without issues.*
   
  What I am glad that my CSP2+ has implemented with the Beeswax cap mod already. This makes the sound be better in transparency with remaining natural in the same time.


----------



## longbowbbs

His e-mail also let's everyone know they have 6 weeks to jump on a CSP3+ at CSP2+ prices!


----------



## longbowbbs

Here is Steve's e-mail:
   
 [size=12.727272033691406px] 
 
 
  This is a note that I am sending out to everyone on our customer appreciation list...
At the end of this e-mail is important info about discounts and price increases.
I am still recovering from a back injury, so I'm not going to be able to get the web site updated as soon as I'd like.  This means a huge opportunity for savings on your end if you're contemplating getting more Decware gear.
We have been slowly transitioning our entire line of tube gear from white to black.  I have finally got all of the chassis done and in stock as I write this.  Besides switching to this exquisite black typewriter finish, we are also changing from aluminum to steel.  The steel adds four times the mass and many additional pounds to each amplifier.  It also costs more, but by lowing the resonant frequency of the chassis with this high mass steel, we get blacker backgrounds and a much harder chassis to bend during shipping mishaps.
Another thing I was able to do is create a separate chassis for every product, which allows me to further optimize and improve things.  In the past, our CSP2 preamp used the same chassis as our SE84ZS (Zen Select) and the Taboo amplifiers!  Now each has it's own, and the layouts have been vastly improved. An example of this can be seen in the pictures below where we see the Zen Select (Model SE84ZS) change into the new (SE84CKCS)  Besides meters and optional balanced inputs, things like the source switch have been moved to the front where it's far easier to access.  Speaker jacks have also been reconfigured to make using these amps in your favorite rack a more friendly experience.
   




 


 

 Old Zen Select (model SE84ZS still on the site today!)​  ​  ​  ​ 
 






 

 New Zen Select (model SE84CKCS getting ready to go on site soon!)​  ​  ​ 
 

 


 

 New Preamp (Model CSP3)​  ​  ​ 
 
 Here's a quick shot of our new CSP3 that I snapped with my phone.  It has too many improvements to list here, but as you can see it now has dual headphone jacks in the front, and all the trim controls an source selector switch have been moved to the front where it's far easier to use.  This also makes it possible to configure your preamp for XLR headphone cables, 3 or 4 pin, when you order.  Beeswax caps will now fit into the internal layout and will become an option for the first time ever on this wonderful preamp.   



 BEESWAX caps - Cryo treated HT Jupiter caps with silver leads are a buzz these days when referencing Decware gear and that is because we are transitioning our entire line of tube gear over to these incredible capacitors at the same time we change from the white to black models.  This will make it very easy to know if a Decware product came with Beeswax caps.... since most black models will come that way.



 The LIST so far - Price Increases
 
 *OK -  Here's how it works.   Whenever we come out with a new product, those people on our build sheet with standing orders are automatically upgraded to the new model at the old model price.*
    
I am obligated to charge what 's listed on the web site, so until I have time to update the site, you can buy these new more expensive models at the current prices.
   
We are now finishing the CSP3.  This new model will likely cost a few hundred bucks more.  You can order a CSP2+ from the site now, and lock yourself into the old price.  We are still running over 8 weeks, so you'll have plenty of time to discover the options it now comes with and modify your order if need be.  Remember, we don't charge until the units are ready to ship, so you have some time to arrange funds.
   
The TORII MK III is days away from becoming the TORII MK IV  and this is really big, because we've figured out how to make it sound even better if you can believe that!  The new amp will come standard with beeswax caps and there will be a significant price increase.  Get your TORII ordered now before I update the web site and save yourself a few hundred bucks minimum.

   
The Super Zen has been a great success, but became as good or better than the Zen Select, which was designed to be and upgraded version of the Regular Zen Triode.  So we have also updated that with meters, and many internal improvements so that it is indeed a step up from the SuperZen as it should be.  Again, if you want one, order the SE84ZS and you'll automatically be upgraded to the new model without the couple hundred dollar price increase!
   
*The main thing is to get your orders in as soon as possible before I get the site pages updated.  This will secure your position in the list and lock you in at the old price.  * I can answer questions about the changes and options by e-mail or phone once your order is placed.  We can easily tweak your order to achieve the configurations you want so no need to panic about options.  *I'll work with each one of you individually.*
   
   
   
   



 - Steve Deckert

Decware / High Fidelity Engineering Co.
75 S. Riverview Dr. East Peoria IL 61611
Website: www.decware.com
Blog: zenamps.wordpress.com
Phone: (309) 822 5255



 

 
 
[/size] [size=10px !important]
 75 S Riverview Dr., East Peoria, IL 61611, USA 

[/size]


----------



## thegrobe

Count me in, finalized my CSP3+ order today!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Count me in, finalized my CSP3+ order today!


----------



## Lord Soth

I've also placed an order for the CSP3.

Wanted to get another CSP2+ for my bedroom use.
This is a great opportunity to save BIG!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> I've also placed an order for the CSP3.
> 
> Wanted to get another CSP2+ for my bedroom use.
> This is a great opportunity to save BIG!!!


 
  You are going to have some major reporting to do after all your new gear shows up!


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> I've also placed an order for the CSP3.
> 
> Wanted to get another CSP2+ for my bedroom use.
> This is a great opportunity to save BIG!!!


 
   
  Good news, this shows to the newcomers how great the DECWARE headamps are, so we intend to stick with them.


----------



## mwindham08

Ordered! Can't wait to use this as a headphone amp and preamp to the taboo!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Ordered! Can't wait to use this as a headphone amp and preamp to the taboo!


----------



## Lorspeaker

anyone tried using  6sn7 thru an adaptor on any of  the 3 ecc88 slots? 
 does it work, or is it a step backwards?


----------



## longbowbbs

I have never tried it.


----------



## Lord Soth

The CSP3 order page is now up and running.

The new base model CSP3 is now a few hundred dollars more expensive than the CSP2+.

Congrats to all who got onto the bandwagon whilst the price promotion was on!


----------



## WNBC

I was able to secure one from the for sale forum last week.  An unused CSP3+.  Waiting on the Alpha Dogs next week.  CSP3>Taboo>Alpha Dog.  Going to be awesome.
  
 The different tube configurations can daunting though.  So many tubes, so little time.
  
  
 CSP3:  Siemens CCa + 2 x Valvo E88CC + RCA 5U4
 Taboo:  Sovtek 6922 + 2 X Russian EL84s + RCA 5Y3GT
  
  
 Manual indicates 40 hours of burn-in required.  Still under that.  Need to read through this thread.
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


lord soth said:


> The CSP3 order page is now up and running.
> 
> The new base model CSP3 is now a few hundred dollars more expensive than the CSP2+.
> Congrats to all who got onto the bandwagon whilst the price promotion was on!


----------



## thegrobe

Wow. My CSP3 is starting to get some hours on it. Some burn-in + rolling rectifier and input tubes = outstanding sound. Although there's nothing wrong with the stock tubes. Tweaking it to personal preference with tubes though is certainly a plus. 

The amount of flexibility with the Taboo is wonderful although a bit overwhelming at times. Trying to decide if everything is optional creates some self-doubt when there's so many knobs to turn, LOL.

Quick question for those who have more experience using a preamp in the chain- I have heard mostly that you would leave the Taboo volume wide open, and use the preamp for volume control. Okay. I also read in some Decware literature (can't find it now) about leaving the power amp volume around the middle while setting up the preamp. Then as usual use the preamp for volume control.

Which is it? Ha ha. I find the sound a bit smoother with the Taboo volume control knocked down a few steps or so, and certainly still having more than enough power on tap for headphone use. Driving my not-efficient-enough speakers, though I need to keep the Taboo pegged closer to full.

Any advantage or disadvantage one way or the other keeping the power amp pegged or nearer halfway. Kind of confused since I've seen both ways "recommended"

Thanks

Edit: even though the CSP3 headphones out its meant for higher impedance headphones, and the Taboo is designed with the LCD in mind...the LCD-3 sounds surprisingly good direct from the CSP3. Direct from either amp, or working together...lots of options and flexibility here.


----------



## mwindham08

It was my understanding that you leave the taboo volume wide open, put the csp3 volume to halfway,and turn the output level controls all the way down.

You then increase the output levels until you reach your prefered listening level. Setting it up this way helps increase the body and weight of your music.


----------



## longbowbbs

I have the Taboo at full. On the CSP2+ I have the output level pots set to full as well. All volume is controlled from the CSP2+ volume knob. I barely get past 7 o'clock for headphones and rarely 9 for speakers. That is rocking out with the DM945's. No shortage of power for the DM's. I have played with the output pots and for me this is the preferred configuration.


----------



## thegrobe

Ah, okay, I found where it was mentioned to have the amp at "halfway" It's the CSP3 page on the Decware site:
  
 C) Left and Right Line Level Output Controls.
 These are used to dial in the gain of this preamp so that it is perfect with any amplifier.  You can adjust the outputs to between zero and six volts.  The trick to this is also simple.  Just turn them all the way down, turn on your amplifier, raise the master volume to around half way up and then slowly adjust the output level controls to reach your normal listening level.  This guarantees a perfect match with any amplifier regardless of it's input sensitivity and power.  These can also be used to adjust left/right balance between channels.
  
  
 Now that I read it again, it must be referring to the "master volume" on the CSP3, not the power amp. The wording is weird, it says " turn on your amplifier, turn the master volume to around half"
  
 Thanks for the responses!


----------



## thegrobe

Longbow- Wow the output setting at full on the CSP is how many volts? The CSP3 is now available with 0-6v (standard) and 0-12v (option). Mine's a 0-6v and plenty of adjustment. I can't recall what the CSP2+ was outputting.


----------



## mwindham08

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1275944547
  
 Heres a thread with the man himself.
 Can't wait till I get to do this stuff myself, only 1-2 more weeks!


----------



## WNBC

mwindham08 and longbowbbs.  I tried both your methods.  With no music playing, just listening to the background, I get the cleanest signal from mwindham08's method.  longbowbbs, if I use your method I can hear all kinds of hum with the output levels maxed and slowly increase the master volume on the CSP.  Is it a question of bad input/output tubes?  Just using the stock ones right now.  Too hot right now for me to swap out.  I'm using a pair of Fostex T50RP right now.  With less efficient orthos or high impedance dynamics I'm guessing I won't hear much background noise.  
  
  
  
 Quote:


mwindham08 said:


> It was my understanding that you leave the taboo volume wide open, put the csp3 volume to halfway,and turn the output level controls all the way down.
> 
> You then increase the output levels until you reach your prefered listening level. Setting it up this way helps increase the body and weight of your music.


 
  


longbowbbs said:


> I have the Taboo at full. On the CSP2+ I have the output level pots set to full as well. All volume is controlled from the CSP2+ volume knob. I barely get past 7 o'clock for headphones and rarely 9 for speakers. That is rocking out with the DM945's. No shortage of power for the DM's. I have played with the output pots and for me this is the preferred configuration.


----------



## longbowbbs

Never had a problem and it always sounded great. 
  
 I have to put the CSP2+ volume knob to 90% before I hear any hum on the HD800's. With the output pots at a 5 or 6 setting (out of 10) I get no hum at max volume.


----------



## mwindham08

wnbc said:


> mwindham08 and longbowbbs.  I tried both your methods.  With no music playing, just listening to the background, I get the cleanest signal from mwindham08's method.  longbowbbs, if I use your method I can hear all kinds of hum with the output levels maxed and slowly increase the master volume on the CSP.  Is it a question of bad input/output tubes?  Just using the stock ones right now.  Too hot right now for me to swap out.  I'm using a pair of Fostex T50RP right now.  With less efficient orthos or high impedance dynamics I'm guessing I won't hear much background noise.


 
 I'm glad it worked, although really it's the Steve Deckert method not mine.
  
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1350306341
  
 Here is another thread where someone was having an issue with background noise, different problem than yours though.
 Steve does say that turning the output pots all the way up will output alot of volts and be too noisy for most systems.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am guessing there is a tube aspect to the noise as well.


----------



## WNBC

In the end the audio quality is fine with either method esp at normal listening levels.  With one method it is more quiet in the low passages and between songs.  Full output levels are just a little noisier than what I'm used to.  My previous rig was a W4S DAC-2 > Taboo MKII > HE-500 which is was super black and I use that in mental/aural comparisons to my current Ciunas > CSP3 > Taboo MKIII > T50RP or Grado 225i.      
  
 Tubes, headphones, clean power, source, etc. all feed into how black the background is in one's system.  I've been thinking about a couple power conditioners and isolation transformers but haven't pulled the trigger yet.  I'm already using a Furman AR-15 II which does some conditioning.  I don't hear any differences compared to when I use the wall sockets which makes me believe the noise is more downstream but that assumes the Furman is doing its job.    
  
 No major worries here.  I want to hear how the balanced ADs sound in my current rig before I buy anything new.  In the end I'm super happy with the CSP3 + Taboo MKIII.  Just little refinements here and there.  Audiophiles have to pick apart everything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
  
  
 Quote:


longbowbbs said:


> Never had a problem and it always sounded great.


 
  


mwindham08 said:


> I'm glad it worked, although really it's the Steve Deckert method not mine.
> 
> http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1350306341
> 
> ...


----------



## thegrobe

mwindham08 said:


> http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1275944547
> 
> Heres a thread with the man himself.
> Can't wait till I get to do this stuff myself, only 1-2 more weeks!




Thanks for posting that- this following quote from Steve on that thread leads me to believe that there is something to knocking the Taboo volume down a bit, and raising the CSP master a bit. I have been trying this a bit as I described a few posts back, and liking the sound, it's good to know that it's not entirely "incorrect". 

"If the amp you are using has a gain control we assume it's all the way up. That said, if you want a particular recording to have more punch, less thinness, you can simply turn the gain on the amp down a couple notches and run the preamp master volume a bit higher"

I also have a low gain (1.25v) and high gain (2.5v) output on my DAC so there is that in play as well. I tend to get slightly different signatures from the two gain settings, I wonder which is more "direct" or "pure"...ie less circuit in the path?


----------



## mwindham08

thegrobe said:


> Thanks for posting that- this following quote from Steve on that thread leads me to believe that there is something to knocking the Taboo volume down a bit, and raising the CSP master a bit. I have been trying this a bit as I described a few posts back, and liking the sound, it's good to know that it's not entirely "incorrect".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do you think it will depend on your dac's power supply? I know alot of power supplies are overbuilt, like the Taboo, so they are never really stressed which keeps good sound quality.
 If your dac's psu struggles more to output the 2.5v maybe 1.25v will sound better? 
  
 This is all guess work on my part of course. If you are using Audio-gd as your source it's probably fine. Those things are built like tanks and have great psu's. 
 I love my NFB-7.1 even if it is the size of a kitchen table


----------



## Argo Duck

Speaking of setting up CSP2/3 and your power amp, @Will over on the Decware forums uses 'riding the gain'. I think he means altering the relative levels between preamp and power amp to tailor the sound. I guess this works because each amp has different characteristics.

For example, increase the level of the CSP (and reduce the level of your Taboo or whatever to keep the final level the same) you get more of the CSP's sound. Or vice versa.

Haven't tried this (yet) and it's not something I've ever seen Steve mention in so many words but it sounds good in theory!


----------



## mwindham08

Combine that with tube rolling to alter the sound even further and you have a ton of possibilities.
  
 My CSP3 can not come fast enough!


----------



## longbowbbs

Then you add 2 lucid modes....


----------



## rnadell

Anyone have a csp2+ for sale? thanks


----------



## Argo Duck

madell here's one in the Decware classifieds: http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1379100541

It's with a Taboo 2 and unfortunately they want to sell as a pair...


----------



## Lord Soth

rnadell said:


> Anyone have a csp2+ for sale? thanks




Suggest you post a "wanted" ad on the Decware audio forum.

With many CSP2+ owners jumping onto the new CSP3 bandwagon, you're likely to receive an offer over there from someone who wants to make the upgrade.


----------



## rnadell

What is the current wait time on the CSP 3? I think that is the direction I will go. 
 thanks


----------



## mwindham08

I ordered mine august 24th and it's on the bench right now. I should get it next week most likely. So probably around 6 to 8 weeks


----------



## ManAtWork

check the website, there is a link to inform all the customers the updated order status


----------



## longbowbbs

That gets addicting checking it daily.....


----------



## rnadell

Well I made it easy on myself, I purchased a used csp 2+. Looking forward to
 it. Thanks to all


----------



## rnadell

Wondering if the beeswax caps and stepped attenuator are 705.00 worth of improvement?
 That does include recertifying the warranty which is nice.
 thanks


----------



## longbowbbs

rnadell said:


> Wondering if the beeswax caps and stepped attenuator are 705.00 worth of improvement?
> That does include recertifying the warranty which is nice.
> thanks


 
 I did enjoy the Beeswax caps in the Taboo MK III. I am personally a fan of the smooth attenuator. I would not spend $700 for those upgrades though. Tube choices will do more for you than the caps will.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

rnadell said:


> Wondering if the beeswax caps and stepped attenuator are 705.00 worth of improvement?
> That does include recertifying the warranty which is nice.
> thanks


 
  
 Generally cap & attenuator upgrades don't scale nearly as high as the rest of the circuit. It will be better, but not proportionally.
  
 Personally I wouldn't do it unless you've already rolled some nice toobage. The mesh 5U4G from Emission Labs is awfully nice.


----------



## rnadell

nick dangerous said:


> Generally cap & attenuator upgrades don't scale nearly as high as the rest of the circuit. It will be better, but not proportionally.
> 
> Personally I wouldn't do it unless you've already rolled some nice toobage. The mesh 5U4G from Emission Labs is awfully nice.


 
 Where did you purchase your Emission Labs 5u4g? Are you still using your concero? I am really liking this combo. Thanks


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Bought the EML "gently used" from a fellow Head-Fi'er. And yes... still happy with my CSP2+ and Concero. Great combo for the HD800 and perhaps the best price-performance rig available for it. 

If you can't spring for the EML, the RCA 5Y3GT blackplate is a nice alternative & sounds great with rock music.


----------



## snapontom

My CSP2+ is getting the beeswax cryo treated capacitor upgrade.


----------



## Lord Soth

snapontom said:


> My CSP2+ is getting the beeswax cryo treated capacitor upgrade.




This should be a worthwhile upgrade!

I have the new CSP3 with the beeswax caps and the CSP2+ with normal caps.

The beeswax caps do make a difference.

The CSP3 sounds warmer and more organic.
The music seems to be more emotionally satisfying.


----------



## snapontom

My Decware switch box will output my Sansui tuner and Bifrost DAC to the CSP2+.  My turntable will feed into a Decware phono amp then straight into my CSP2+.  The CSP2+ output will go directly to a Taboo MK_ II _outfitted with Z capacitors.  This set up should be black and magical.  I am waiting the return of my CSP2+ from Decware where it's being outfitted with the new cryogenic treated beeswax capacitors.  I am also waiting for my new Audio Desk ultrasonic vinyl cleaner, it's on its way too!  2014 will be a great year musically for me, and 2013 was fantastic.  
 I am going to a choir performance at my daughter's high school tonight.  At the end of the concert the kids come out into the isles and sing a song.  Man, now that sounds fantastic! 
 Went to see an orchestra already this year!   Oh man.  Glad I can still hear at my age.


----------



## olegausany

manatwork said:


> In my rig, I switched between Bugle Boy 6DJ8 or Telefunken 6922 at front, and keep the 6N1P for L&R, this works very well and improved the weakness of 6N1P. The headphones sound perfectly are T1 (Never heard it sounds such good in other amplifiers), HD650 (esp. with Cardas Clear Light cable), DT880.



Right now I have Telfunken E88CC cyro treated next to master volume pot in my CSP3 and a pair of 6N1P in the other 2 sockets with Valve Art 274B and I really like the comvo or I should switch them so that 6N1P is next to the volume pot?


----------



## ManAtWork

Nope, I think. The E88CC improves the clarity and dynamic if using in Input (the single behind the volume pot). 6N1P sounds slightly musical but with less noise, which are selected by Steve Decware. Since its low noise, the 6N1P is recommended to be used in output (L&R) which these positions are quite sensitive with the noise from tubes. Just curious, is there any noise from your E88CC? It is very difficult to find any NOS 6922 tubes without noise, and the cost of experimental is very expensive.


----------



## olegausany

manatwork said:


> Nope, I think. The E88CC improves the clarity and dynamic if using in Input (the single behind the volume pot). 6N1P sounds slightly musical but with less noise, which are selected by Steve Decware. Since its low noise, the 6N1P is recommended to be used in output (L&R) which these positions are quite sensitive with the noise from tubes. Just curious, is there any noise from your E88CC? It is very difficult to find any NOS 6922 tubes without noise, and the cost of experimental is very expensive.



Yes I do use single. E88CC and. a pair. of 6N1Ps. I got E88CC from Upscale Audio.
Any place you can recommend. to get RCA 5Y3G and Jan Sylvania 5U4G recommended here?


----------



## Nick Dangerous

http://tctubes.com/rca-5y3gt-black-plates.aspx


----------



## olegausany

nick dangerous said:


> http://tctubes.com/rca-5y3gt-black-plates.aspx



Thanks. a lot , I know about this place just wasn't sure it's reputable one. What about Jan Sylvania 5U4G?


----------



## olegausany

is this this the right jan sylvania 5U4G http://www.dbtubes.com/tube-detail.php?ID=2229?


----------



## longbowbbs

I had the Bottle shaped version. I have not used that one.


----------



## ManAtWork

This man has a lot of NOS tubes. I bought several Rectifier Tubes from him from '40 Ken-Rad, '50 TungSol and RCA.

.


----------



## olegausany

manatwork said:


> This man has a lot of NOS tubes. I bought several Rectifier Tubes from him from '40 Ken-Rad, '50 TungSol and RCA.
> 
> .



Which one do you mean?


----------



## ManAtWork

Sorry I forgot to share the link
http://www.ebay.com/sch/n7rk/m.html?item=261423699143&pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cde1114c7&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562


----------



## olegausany

Anyone used this place?
is this the right Jan Sylvania 5U4G?
https://www.kcanostubes.com/content/nos-jan-philipssylvania-5u4gb


----------



## olegausany

So I replaced a pair of 6N1P-EV i used for a past week with my CSP3 with cyro treated Telefunken E88CC, same one as I said earlier I'm using as single one I was using and noticed that they added some body to the bass which is noticeable on string while listening Beethoven's 5th. I tried 2 rectifier tubes Valve Art 274B and Mazda 5Y3GT and while I like both I think that with Mazda highs are a little bit smoother and little bit better clarity. I also ordered RCA 5Y3GT black plates and Jan Sylvania 5U4GB so will see if they can make any difference for me


----------



## longbowbbs

The beauty of the CSP line is great sound with endless variety via tube rolling.


----------



## figaro69

longbowbbs said:


> The beauty of the CSP line is great sound with endless variety via tube rolling.


 
 Yes...totally agree, but with a caveat.  The HD800, HD650 and T1 sound great out of the CSP...but it is worthless with low impedance headphones...for that you need to get the Decware Taboo!


----------



## longbowbbs

figaro69 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > The beauty of the CSP line is great sound with endless variety via tube rolling.
> ...


 
 +1 to that.


----------



## rnadell

For anyone interested I have a csp2+ for sale, listed here on 
 Headfi. thanks


----------



## longbowbbs

It's my old one and the maple base is gorgeous!


----------



## olegausany

tried 2 other recirtifier tubes I got with CSP3 while still keeping all 3 Telefunken E88CC's and finally can agree that Philips 5R4GYS is the best I have tried so far but it wasn't the case when a pair of 6N1P's or Genalex golden lions' where used instead.
 Also have a quick question. Just discovered that  sometimes volume of right channel is low while left is fine. Slight move of input tube solves problem but I want a permanent solution. Will "socket saver" do the job or sending it for repairs is the only option?
 Update: Just found out that I can hear musc o r sometimes hum in right channel even if both controls near single input tube are all the way down


----------



## thegrobe

olegausany said:


> tried 2 other recirtifier tubes I got with CSP3 while still keeping all 3 Telefunken E88CC's and finally can agree that Philips 5R4GYS is the best I have tried so far but it wasn't the case when a pair of 6N1P's or Genalex golden lions' where used instead.
> Also have a quick question. Just discovered that  sometimes volume of right channel is low while left is fine. Slight move of input tube solves problem but I want a permanent solution. Will "socket saver" do the job or sending it for repairs is the only option?




You could try cleaning the sockets and tube pins with deoxit. Might be a little buildup or some oxidation. A pipe cleaner and the cleaner can get into the sockets pretty well.


----------



## olegausany

I tried to clean socket with deoxit using provided brush but it didn't help plus it happens with every tube , Telefunken just got from Upscale Audio a week ago


----------



## screwdriver

I have a csp2+ and I use mullard gz37 rectifier ,  stock tubes left aand right , tungsram 6922 up front . best bass and detail ive heard
 the best combo in my system but I use it as a pre amp along with an alo studio six .


----------



## MoatsArt

Subbed


----------



## Lorspeaker

figaro69 said:


> Yes...totally agree, but with a caveat.  The HD800, HD650 and T1 sound great out of the CSP...but it is worthless with low impedance headphones...for that you need to get the Decware Taboo!


 
  
 making do with my DV336se for my D7k...for now 
  
 Tung-Sol 5U4GB tube...this adds BASS when the going gets too bright.


----------



## olegausany

My favorite pairing i 6N1P input a pair of Genalex Gold Lions 6922 output and RCA5Y3 rectifier


----------



## Frank I

I have two rca 5U4G and one shuguang 274B all nOS for sale The RCA are 75.00 for the pair shipped or  40.00 each sipped- I cna go 65.00 for the pair of rca if done this weekend. The shuggie is 25.00 shipped


----------



## olegausany

I'm selling my less than a month old CSP3 with about 60 hours of usage , it has beeswax capacitors upgrade installed plus it has 4 pin XLR out instead of second 1/4" jack for just 1500

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Did you overcome the problems you reported earlier: slight volume drop in right channel and sometimes hum?


----------



## olegausany

This is brand new replacement unit which has no problems


----------



## Lorspeaker

everyone is happy with their csp2sss...quietly enjoying this treasure of an amp? 
  
 thinking of snagging a pair of russian 6n23p ...
 there is a running hype in the LYR thread on these,
 anyone of u tried this type of tubes..n most effective for which position?
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6N23P-VOSKHOD-EXACT-1977-GRAY-SHIELDS-Pr-US-SELLER-6922-CCa-E88CC-ECC88-/231289178725?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=oYBSbs28D29G6naYby8EJS3dKlc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## Nick Dangerous

While there are undoubtedly variations in 6N1P vintages, I suspect whichever you choose would be best used in the two driver positions. I found the default 6N1P-EV to be just as good as some of the megabuck tubes _when used as drivers_.
  
 I don't recommend using any 6N1P type up front. Spend a little extra and put something special there. I recommend the E88CC Mullard types (my favorite were the 1960's/70's "old shield" ones).


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Also the green label Dario Miniwatt E188CC is a good all-round performer... though expensive!


----------



## whirlwind

So what can i expect from a CSP3 and my HD800
  
 My chain would be   PS audio nuwave > Decware CSP3 > HD800


----------



## Lorspeaker

nick dangerous said:


> Also the green label Dario Miniwatt E188CC is a good all-round performer... though expensive!


 
  
 Thanks Nick for the great advice...
 will hunt for a pair of 6n23p on the cheap for the drivers, ( curious)
 and up the investment for the front tube


----------



## Nick Dangerous

whirlwind said:


> So what can i expect from a CSP3 and my HD800
> 
> My chain would be   PS audio nuwave > Decware CSP3 > HD800


 
  
 Basically, greatness. Especially with the right tubes (see my sig for rectifier suggestions).
  
 The Nuwave is detailed but the one we demoed had some strange things going on in the midrange. We (Justin/Chris/myself) unanimously preferred the Concero (base model) with this rig... but if you like the Nuwave it will sound great here.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Nick...Allow me to copy your post onto this thread for our easy reference :
  
  
  
Rectifier Rolling Roundup (RRR)
_*For me, the Philips 5R4GYS was highly detailed, but gutless. Almost no bass. It was my least favorite rectifier in the Decware amps.*_
  
_*Let me cut-and-paste my personal notes from this year... OK... got it...*_
  
_*Now presenting my personal "Rectifier Rolling Roundup" (using CSP2+ with HD800):*_
  
_*Note: All tubes ranked WORST to BEST. All opinions are my own 2c so no refunds or guarantees final sale only yada yada. I broke them up into tiers which represented notable jumps in sound quality.*_
  
_*And now... the RRR:*_
  
_*Tier one: Not ready for prime time*_
_*Philips 5R4GYS - Very detailed but not especially sweet. Weak bass. The prototypical sterile/cerebral magic-destroying tube experience. Blech.*_
_*Shuguang (stock tube) 5U4G - Decent all-round, but not remarkable in any particular way.*_
_*RCA brown base 5R4GY - Strong unfocused bass & lush midrange. Has some personality but way too sloppy and bloated.*_
  
_*Tier two: The steely trio*_
_*Sylvania 5Y3GT red lettering - Excellent sparkly detail up top, but suffers from that Philips-esque steely/lack of lushness/soft bass tradeoff thing.*_
_*Tung Sol 5Y3GT - Superior to the Sylvania w/slightly better bass but again a bit too flat and sterile. Voices lack the magic. Sort of "hi fi" sounding.*_
_*Bendix 6106 - Similar to the Sylvania & Tung Sol. Good range but again too steely for my tastes.*_
  
_*Tier three: Competent, but unremarkable*_
_*RCA 5U4G black base - The lushness is back. Good top-to-bottom control. But otherwise... meh. *_
_*Sylvania 5U4G - Very similar to the RCA 5U4G above. A bit darker.*_
_*Tung Sol 5U4G - The best of the cheap 5U4G's. Better balanced than the Sylvania above, but still unmemorable.*_
  
_****you are now crossing the DMZ Line of Recommendation****_
  
_*Tier four: I could live with that... if I had to*_
_*Valve Art 274B cryo - Lively soundstage, a bit bass-light, but not sterile. The first cheap & good tube I'd recommend.*_
_*Mazda 5Y3GB mini coke bottle - Another step up… I think? Neat-o heater & bottle design!*_
_*Sylvania 5Y3G mini coke bottle - Similar to the Mazda. A smidge on the delicate and distant side. Resembles a "polite USAF-596".*_
_*Brimar 5R4GY - Not the final word in sparkly detail. It's a bit too soft on top, but the pumping bass is well-controlled and the midrange is just gorgeous. A bit of a specialist but what it does, it does well.*_
_*USAF-596 - It's "all there". Very detailed, top to bottom, with no glaring weaknesses... save one... it has a subtle "lifelessness" to it that I just can't abide. Like the slightest hazy veneer on an otherwise perfect car wax.*_
  
_*Tier five: The ones I kept*_
_*RCA 5Y3GT - Amazingly cheap yet it ROCKS w/solid bass presence and response up and down the spectrum. It lacks that final n'th of detail, but it's hardly a dealbreaker. It's got "the tone"... lots of personality here. This was the tube featured at the Austin 2013 meet & was very well received.*_
_*EML 5U4G meshplate - Yeah, it's the most expensive of them all, but also the best I've heard. My newest (and likely final) rectifier selection. Delivers maximum detail without giving up any of that lush evocative tube magic. The only ding I could give it would be how the RCA delivers a smidge more satisfaction when it comes to slammin' gut-level bass. But the EML isn't deficient by any means. Its finesse is what ultimately carries the day. Needs to warm up at least 30 minutes for maximum effect. $$$ and fragile, but a worthy upgrade for the CSP2+ in my opinion.*_
  
_*Happy rolling & hope it helps! *_

_*Edited by Nick Dangerous - 6/28/13 at 12:00pm*_
  
  
_*---------*_


----------



## Lorspeaker

i almost hit the BUY button on the first tube on your list just yesterday... 
 whewww.....


----------



## Nick Dangerous

lorspeaker said:


> i almost hit the BUY button on the first tube on your list just yesterday...
> whewww.....


 
  
 A lot of people seem to like the Philips 5R4GYS, but in the CSP2+ HD800 rig I found it to be too sterile. Lots of detail, but bleh. Gutless.


----------



## whirlwind

nick dangerous said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > So what can i expect from a CSP3 and my HD800
> ...


 
 Thanks.
  
 Can I get this amp with balanced input 
  
 If so, i am really going to consider getting this.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

whirlwind said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Can I get this amp with balanced input
> 
> If so, i am really going to consider getting this.


 
  
 http://www.decware.com/newsite/CSP3.html
  
 Optional 3 or 4-pin XLR headphone jacks... but not sure about inputs. Might have to request a custom option for that if possible. Let us know what Steve says if you contact him about it.


----------



## whirlwind

nick dangerous said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks.
> ...


 
 I would like to contact Steve, but unfortunately I keep getting an error when trying to register at the site.
  
 Do you happen to have his e-mail that you could pm me ?


----------



## olegausany

Choose contact us on the website and call but they not answering the phone on Monday


----------



## Lorspeaker

olegausany said:


> I'm selling my less than a month old CSP3 with about 60 hours of usage , it has beeswax capacitors upgrade installed plus it has 4 pin XLR out instead of second 1/4" jack for just 1500
> 
> Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk


 
  
 u using it as a preamp?


----------



## olegausany

No as headphones amp


----------



## Lorspeaker

i am getting v good results hooking it as a preamp to another tube amp..( my dv336se.. )
 the soundstage just expandedddd..give it a shot if u still have two tube amps with u.


----------



## olegausany

Yes I still have Crack and SEX


----------



## whirlwind

olegausany said:


> Choose contact us on the website and call but they not answering the phone on Monday


 
 I dont get home from work until after 4:00PM......it says they close at 4:00 pm....I will figure something out


----------



## whirlwind

TA  DA !
  
 Finally got registered.....


----------



## stoutblock

I've owned my CSP2 for several years now and use it in my office system.  I mostly use FLAC files as the source.  Currently I use an Audio-gd NFB-3 (2014) DAC and Beyerdynamic DT880/600 headphones.  I also use it to drive a custom 2A3 SET connected to a pair of ADS L420 speakers but I have found the headphones are much more concerning to tube swaping.  However, anything that sounds good on my phones still sounds good through the speakers.
  
 I've gone through a lot of tubes in all slots.  This is what I have found.
  
 To start I use (early 70s) Mullard CV2493 tubes in all the 6DJ8/6922 spots when I roll the rectifiers.  These are very high spec gold pin tubes and simply leave nothing behind.  Any other tube I have used tends to make selecting the rectifier more difficult. 
  
 With the CV2493 tubes in place, my 1961 Mullard GZ34 double D getter (marked Amperex) simply cannot be beat in the rectifier spot.  Other rectifiers are interesting, but the Mullard GZ34 is a step up from others I have tried.  I have to admit I have not tried variations of the Mullard GZ34, and there may be better ones, but the one I own (original tube borrowed from my Scott 299C) is awesome on the CSP2.  Like the CV2493, the Mullard GZ34 leaves nothing behind.  Detail and extension (low and high) are amazing.  Mid range comes forward (which I generally prefer) and this tube combination is dead quiet.  Piano after tones, female voices, jazz guitar, brass etc all seem in perfect behavior. 
  
 Problem is, perfect behavior is not always the most captivating and engaging.  Leaving the other tubes alone, I play with the front output tube spot quite often.  I have found a strong Amperex bugle boy 6DJ8 adds a little character that is to my liking.  Still accurate and dynamic, but with a little less edge than running all CV2493 tubes.  The BB on Neal Young tracks is a killer combination.  I especially like an Amperex Orange Globe in this spot when playing Progressive Rock or Heavy Metal.  A really nice Mullard/Amperex gold pin I have made in the Blackburn plant is devine with most any Jazz I play (especially if it has a Sax!). 
  
 A weird thing I have noticed running the GZ34 is it will tend to be hard on the two rear input tubes.  I don't know if this is just by chance, or has something to do with the GZ34 being in the rectifier spot, but I have worn out several nice tubes in these spots when running the GZ34.  Not the CV2493 tubes though.  I don't think you can buy a tougher 6DJ8/6922/7308 type tube than the CV2493 and the fact it sounds so exceptional makes it my tube of choice in many similar applications.  I own over a dozen of these tubes. I picked them up from Europe years ago and have used them in many components.  Even though they were not matched when purchased, they all matched near perfectly.  Six are still NOS but the others I have used for hundreds of hours and their measurements have never drifted!
  
 Now, these are all expensive tubes, and should sound good.  On a cheaper note, an old Sylvania 5U4G combined with EH6922 gold pins provides enough sound quality to get you through the day just fine.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

stoutblock said:


> I've owned my CSP2 for several years now and use it in my office system.  I mostly use FLAC files as the source.  Currently I use an Audio-gd NFB-3 (2014) DAC and Beyerdynamic DT880/600 headphones.  I also use it to drive a custom 2A3 SET connected to a pair of ADS L420 speakers but I have found the headphones are much more concerning to tube swaping.  However, anything that sounds good on my phones still sounds good through the speakers.
> 
> I've gone through a lot of tubes in all slots.  This is what I have found.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Agreed the Mullards are tops and wish I tried the GZ34 in my exhaustive roundup. Your description sounds pretty compelling. But Electro-Harmonix 6922's? In my CSP2/HD800 rig they sounded verrrry metallic and lacking in detail. Actually in all the amps I've ever owned the EH's never did anything special. 
  
 If you gotta go new production the Genalex Gold Lion 6922's are fairly well-regarded (though I haven't heard them myself). For inexpensive rectifier duty it's also worth giving the RCA 5Y3GT a try. Or just do what most of us do and obsessively buy everything you can get your hands on to find "the perfect set".


----------



## stoutblock

You can spend more for sure.  I tried a few 274 tubes that I borrowed from a friend.  Pretty good overall but the Mullard was better.  Mostly with detail and balance. 
  
 I did try the new Genalex tubes and for new stock they are great.  I think they sound better than the 6n1p I tired.  They are little thicker sounding in depth but I have found most good older tubes are a little better in most cases and a lot better in a few cases.  No matter what new 6922 tube I have tried in this and other applications, I have come across several bad ones.  True that I have had bad old tubes also, but new tubes should always be good?
  
 Yeah the EH tubes only sounded decent with the 5U4G rectifier for some reason.  Maybe it softened them up a bit?  I just mentioned this because you can buy this combination quite cheap (well under $100) and it won't make you throw the phones across the room!
  
 Also, I should mention I tired the HD800 phones with my CSP2 and could not take what I was hearing.  To my ears they were a little "metallic" to start?  Granted I did not roll a bunch of tube and those cans probably need a completely different tube solution?


----------



## whirlwind

Well, Steve Deckert e-mailed me back and said there is no room in the CSP3 to put balanced inputs.....but by christmas time there will be a box, kind of like the switch box....that will allow you to use a balanced input with the CSP3.
  
 Personally i do not think i want to have another box sitting on my desktop, though.
  
 I will probably just go with a different amp....too bad as i kind of wanted to try one of these.


----------



## stoutblock

I should mention my second choice for rectifier is a 1960's GE 5U4GB.  It probably spends the most time in the amp because my GZ34 is at home in the Scott.  The GE is darn good overall but sounds exceptional with electric guitar.  Whether it is Jim Hall or SRV it just sounds full, deep with plenty of overtone.


----------



## longbowbbs

nick dangerous said:


> If you gotta go new production the Genalex Gold Lion 6922's are fairly well-regarded (though I haven't heard them myself). For inexpensive rectifier duty it's also worth giving the RCA 5Y3GT a try. Or just do what most of us do and obsessively buy everything you can get your hands on to find "the perfect set".


 
 ^ This....Loved the GL6922's. The RCA 5Y3GT was also a nice low cost favorite Rectifier.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Lorenz GZ32 , small coke bottle.... just came in thru the door.
 Fired it up, nice strong glow..with my dac on Low gain, this tube has a liquid euphonic, non steely sound. 
 (reminds me of the Philips 5U4GT tube i was listening to earlier. )
 Set on Hi gain on my Audiogd NFB10.32, the Lorenz takes on a stronger, more energetic, full bodied, well balanced sound,
 without getting into the more analytical Sylvania 5Y3GT signature i tried last nite.
 ( paired with two russian stock tubes...n a RTC E188cc riding the front spot, all cablings from www.cabledyne.com )
  

  
  
  
  
*I like this Lorenz tube v much*...still a baby in my fold 
  
  
  
 this is the write out on it..can be found on EBAY..only guy selling this , just do a search :
  
_For sale is *one* high quality *SEL Lorenz GZ32* (5V4-G, CV593). I have more though, all purchased directly from the German Navy years ago.They come in military bulk packages (see pictures). I can match pairs quads etc. All tubes were packed August 1971 but most likely produced earlier in the late 60ies. All tubes share the same codes. 

 These are high quality milspec rectifier tubes, extremely ruggedized for use on military ships (as far as I know they were used in the radar equipment). The tubes have round cup getters, the size is somewhat smaller than the big Mullard GZ32 but they meet the same military specs for GZ32 / 5V4-G and measure identical on my TV-7 tube tester. These are very good sounding tubes at a really reasonable price. _
_These tubes could also be used as a nice GZ34/5AR4 replacement in many audio applications and guitar amplifiers/pro audio equipment (please check with your equipment manufacturer or supplied specs). _


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice!


----------



## Lorspeaker

This tube is said to be a vintage "5U4"...
 i noticed there is a metal contact of sorts at the top of the glass..
 anyone knows or used this type of 5U4 b4?
 can it be plugged straight into the CSP2+ without an adaptor of sorts?


----------



## longbowbbs

lorspeaker said:


> This tube is said to be a vintage "5U4"...
> i noticed there is a metal contact of sorts at the top of the glass..
> anyone knows or used this type of 5U4 b4?
> can it be plugged straight into the CSP2+ without an adaptor of sorts?


 
 RK60's need an adapter like the 596's. It is not the same adapter. Ask 2359Glenn about it.


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

lorspeaker said:


> Lorenz GZ32 , small coke bottle.... just came in thru the door.
> Fired it up, nice strong glow..with my dac on Low gain, this tube has a liquid euphonic, non steely sound.
> (reminds me of the Philips 5U4GT tube i was listening to earlier. )
> Set on Hi gain on my Audiogd NFB10.32, the Lorenz takes on a stronger, more energetic, full bodied, well balanced sound,
> ...


 
 i bought this tube after seeing your post  puting in my csp2+
 impression is quite amazing, wide soundstage, 3D effect but mid is thinner, much tighter bass and treble extension and overall tonal is brighter more solid-state feeling.
 Previously i used RCA 5r4gyb brown base, warmer sound sig, thicker lusher vocal, more liquid than lorenz more analog tube feel
 im using lorenz pcc88 in the middle and stock 6n1p for L/R chanel
 the hum on lorenz gz32 is a bit higher than rca, but this not an issue when music is playing 
 overall, still think its very good buy and complement perfectly with the rca tube ^__^


----------



## Lorspeaker

i almost snagged a Pcc88 too...sounds like it is adding more bone to the GZ32.
 Mine is a mullard of sorts at the front.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Your observations reminded me of this paper of Steve Deckert's describing how different rectifiers change the sound between "type A" (transparent, 5U4) and "B" ('analog', 5Y3GT). The GZ34 is between these two tubes so closer to the 'A' end of the spectrum than the 5Y3, i.e. more solid-state exactly as you describe.

These sound like a good buy. Thanks for the notes.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Shiraz...........Cabernet.........Pinot Noir


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Surely you mean Syrah


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

lorspeaker said:


> i almost snagged a Pcc88 too...sounds like it is adding more bone to the GZ32.
> Mine is a mullard of sorts at the front.


 
 yeah, i would say too much of good thing


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

lorspeaker said:


> i almost snagged a Pcc88 too...sounds like it is adding more bone to the GZ32.
> Mine is a mullard of sorts at the front.


 
 just tried to use the csp2+ as preamp, using the combo pcc88 and lorenz gz32 really makes the audio-gd sa31 shine
 the sound stage is much wider, very stable 3D imagine, full body bass with great control and very hard impact, sparkle and very detail treble without any hint of sib, much better instruments seperation @__@
 i would say the csp2+ and lorenz combo brings soul of tube injected in my solid state amp
 had never satisfied with the hd800 sound, but now i have been using it more than 2 hours )
  
 all this happened with my temporary cheap dac magic and sa31 amp, dont know how much upcoming dac/amp would scale with csp2+


----------



## Lorspeaker

Sounds like u are having a German nite
This Lorenz can keep up with the Darios n Mullards, no doubt.


----------



## longbowbbs

xxxfbsxxx said:


> lorspeaker said:
> 
> 
> > i almost snagged a Pcc88 too...sounds like it is adding more bone to the GZ32.
> ...


 
 A better DAC will scale well. However, my old DacMagic Plus was nice with the HD800's and the CSP2+.


----------



## 2359glenn

lorspeaker said:


> This tube is said to be a vintage "5U4"...
> i noticed there is a metal contact of sorts at the top of the glass..
> anyone knows or used this type of 5U4 b4?
> can it be plugged straight into the CSP2+ without an adaptor of sorts?


 
  
 That tube is a 807 similar to a 6L6 or 6BG6 needs an adapter to be used in a 6L6 socket not a 5U4
 A RK60/1641 has two plate caps and is similar to a 5U4.


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

lorspeaker said:


> Sounds like u are having a German nite
> This Lorenz can keep up with the Darios n Mullards, no doubt.


 
 yeah, thanks for your review on the lorenz rectifier ^__^ as preamp, it does great job to elevate another headphone amp )


----------



## Lorspeaker

To my brief listening, the Lorenz32 is the leanest, then comes the Dario32, n finally the Mullard32 is the most lush...
 which is better?...it is about matching it to the other tubes n cables in your war chest. 
 (but todate i have not managed to find a combo to make the Lorenz sound as lush as what the Mullard brings to the amp. )
  
 Last nite i was alittle submerged by the (over)lushness of the Mullard32 with russianstockdrivers, n RTC e188cc at the front.
 But with siemen drivers the Mullard32 is better controlled. 
  
 So..pick your potion.


----------



## Lorspeaker

The Lorenz GZ32 sang beautifully when i parked a regular inexpensive Philips ecc88 at the front driving two stock russian tubes.
 ( rivaling the Dario/ russian stock/ RTC e188cc combo )
  
 Stock is running out from the ebay seller..hurry  if u are thinking of trying out this German Navy tube !


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



...used on the  Bismarck ?  sorry these are late 60s ..early 70s 


  
SEL Lorenz GZ32 (5V4G, CV593), German NOS high quality rectifier, MILspec tubes


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Yep, I ordered a pair of the GZ32 the other night. Glad to hear of your success with the Phillips.

Backstory: Over the weekend I chucked a Sylvania 5U4G (barely passable in Nick's review) into my _Taboo_ and _couldn't believe how dark (and hence 'full-toned') it sounded_. I previously thought rectifiers are very subtle. Live and learn.

The 5U4G is much more successful in the CSP2! Given Nick found it nothing special, this is promising for other tubes he recommended as well as the Lorenz.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

argo duck said:


> ^ Yep, I ordered a pair of the GZ32 the other night. Glad to hear of your success with the Phillips.
> 
> Backstory: Over the weekend I chucked a Sylvania 5U4G (barely passable in Nick's review) into my _Taboo_ and _couldn't believe how dark (and hence 'full-toned') it sounded_. I previously thought rectifiers are very subtle. Live and learn.
> 
> The 5U4G is much more successful in the CSP2! Given Nick found it nothing special, this is promising for other tubes he recommended as well as the Lorenz.


 
  
 You're right! Rectifiers can influence the sound a lot more than you'd expect (depending upon the circuit, of course). Decware CSP lets everything right through. But you can go cheap on the two drivers. The default 6N1P's are fine... doesn't change the sound much. Tried some megabuck tubes & went back to the 6N1P's. 
  
 I wish I had tried the Lorenz and Mullard rectifiers so they could have been included in that review. Alas, I am now headphone and amp-less. Gimme a few years and I'm sure I'll be back into it again.
  
 Also: Rectifier-Rolling-Roundup review updated. Writing is much less crappy now.


----------



## Argo Duck

Sorry to hear you're hp and amp-less Nick. As you say, you'll get back into it for sure. There's always other demands we have to balance in life. Everything in its time.

And thanks again for the review - it is one of the best resources we Decware followers have


----------



## Lorspeaker

Hey the Lorenz is sold out !!! 
  
 That same seller has TELEFUNKEN GZ32....
 anyone game for more teutonic juice for his decware? 
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Telefunken-GZ32-5V4G-CV593-NOS-late-60ies-super-rare-German-Navy-tubes-/201050887773?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2ecf91165d
  

  
 Anyone tried this b4? 
  
 =================================
  
 I recently demo-ed the latest version of Audirvana music software..2.0
 overall clarity, airiness, n realism out of my MacAir went up by 2notches.
 http://audirvana.com/


----------



## jhljhl

Lorenz sounds lush / transparent in my taboo II.


----------



## Lorspeaker

jhljhl said:


> Lorenz sounds lush / transparent in my taboo II.


 
  
 That sounds great...i bought a spare to keep actually, maybe one day i will snag a tabooII.
 ...have u tried a D7k on the TabooII...hows the bass control? 
  
  
 ===================
 By the way, is a 25U4g similar to/replaceable with a 5U4g ?? anyone?


----------



## jhljhl

lorspeaker said:


> That sounds great...i bought a spare to keep actually, maybe one day i will snag a tabooII.
> ...have u tried a D7k on the TabooII...hows the bass control?
> 
> 
> ...


 

 This is with the LCD-3.  The bass is surprisingly controlled considering the "lushness."  I am pleased to have it and your post reminded me that I bought it!  It's also no slouch with the HD800 which people don't recommend with the taboo...  I am using a jolida glass fx tube dac/preamp with nos mullards though.  Highly recommended.


----------



## Lorspeaker

The CSP2+ is surprisingly good with high impedence cans...
 i am hooking it as a preamp to an inexpensive Darkvoice336se n having a great ball of a time really...
 there is a synergy betw these 2..the soundstage is deeper, thicker..dense with details.
 (but if i switch it around, trying the DV as a pre..the sound kinda collapsed..anemic ..i dun know the science to it..blush )


----------



## jhljhl

lorspeaker said:


> The CSP2+ is surprisingly good with high impedence cans...
> i am hooking it as a preamp to an inexpensive Darkvoice336se n having a great ball of a time really...
> there is a synergy betw these 2..the soundstage is deeper, thicker..dense with details.
> (but if i switch it around, trying the DV as a pre..the sound kinda collapsed..anemic ..i dun know the science to it..blush )


 

 I haven't used my jolida as a pre just as a dac here with this combination - I'll try it later.


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

quite silly but just wonder could we replace the 6n1p with 6sn7 tube+adapter


----------



## Lorspeaker

xxxfbsxxx said:


> quite silly but just wonder could we replace the 6n1p with 6sn7 tube+adapter


 
  
 crossed my mind too...i have a small stash of 6sn7s too.. hmmm..where are the electrical experts..hate to burn an Xpensive amp


----------



## Skylab

In a word : no. 

6SN7 draws about twice the heater current, and has about 1/3 the transconductance, among other things.


----------



## Lorspeaker

skylab said:


> In a word : no.
> 
> 6SN7 draws about twice the heater current, and has about 1/3 the transconductance, among other things.


 
  
  
 thank u sir...and how about this ....
  
 By the way, is a 25U4g similar to/replaceable with a 5U4g ?? anyone?


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## Skylab

lorspeaker said:


> thank u sir...and how about this ....
> 
> By the way, is a 25U4g similar to/replaceable with a 5U4g ?? anyone?




Good lord no!!! The first number is the voltage of the tube. So 25U4G is a 25 volt rectifier, as opposed to the 5 Volt 5U4G. 

Careful with that axe, Eugene...


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## Lorspeaker

http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/BRIMAR-25U4GT-RECTIFIER-VALVE-TUBE-NOS-/150943034365?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item2324e7ebfd&_uhb=1
  
 tot it is just a harmless number ."2"...LOL.


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## jhljhl

The preamp of the jolida fills out the sound for the taboo mkii nicely but probably not as well as a csp2+ would.
  
 I tried the mullard gz37 very nice tube - not as lush as the lorenz but the bass is a little tighter - soundstage a little wider too.


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## Lorspeaker

these mullard GZ37 are pricey huh..seen a few of them on ebay..not well armed $$ to bid. 
 i have a mullard GZ32...it is more bodacious, fuller sounding than the Lorenz.
 On some poor pairing, it can get too bloaty.


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## jhljhl

lorspeaker said:


> these mullard GZ37 are pricey huh..seen a few of them on ebay..not well armed $$ to bid.
> i have a mullard GZ32...it is more bodacious, fuller sounding than the Lorenz.
> On some poor pairing, it can get too bloaty.


 

 I got a great deal on the gz37.  I am really pleased with the lorenz hm... now a mullard gz32 sounds interesting...


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## Lorspeaker

ok go n snag one...i got one for 30pounds delivered when everyone is asleep..
 it sounded beautiful when i plugged in 3 e188cc tubes ! 
 need to experiment further with the cheaper russian tubes..
 maybe a 6n23p that is the craze now over at the LYR tube rolling thread.
  
 ======
  
 did a quick check..Mullard GZ37, cheapest is 70pounds delivered.


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## Skylab

FWIW, I really preferred the 5Y3 in the CSP-2, versus other rectifiers.


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## jhljhl

skylab said:


> FWIW, I really preferred the 5Y3 in the CSP-2, versus other rectifiers.


 
 I'm using a Taboo II.  I've a csp2+ on the way though.


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## xxxfbsxxx

skylab said:


> In a word : no.
> 
> 6SN7 draws about twice the heater current, and has about 1/3 the transconductance, among other things.


 
 thanks sir )


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## Lorspeaker

I bot SYLVANIA 5Y3,  WIZARD 5Y3G, and a TUNGSOL 5Y3G recently...
 the TS sounded BIGGER amongst the 3 from my first impression when i did a brief listen.
 Havent done a shootout betw diff TYPEs. 
  

  
 dun u love the small glass/silvered bottles..


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## Lord Soth

lorspeaker said:


> I bot SYLVANIA 5Y3,  WIZARD 5Y3G, and a TUNGSOL 5Y3G recently...
> the TS sounded BIGGER amongst the 3 from my first impression when i did a brief listen.
> Havent done a shootout betw diff TYPEs.
> 
> ...


 
  
 JDM did a very good 5Y3 rectifier shootout over here.
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1208182422/0
  
 Like JDM, I've also used a Amperex 6922 tube in front so I tend to agree with his findings.
  
 The RCA 5Y3 and Tung Sol 5Y3 appear to be on top of the list.
  
 I know that Lon, a regular Decware fan, favours the use of the RCA 5Y3.
  
 Sonics wise, in both my CSP2+ and CSP3, I have found the Tung Sol 5Y3 to be on par with the more expensive Brimar 5R4GY rectifier.
 I personally prefer the Brimar rectifier because aesthetics wise, it is a voluptuous tube. 
  
 Have fun!


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## Argo Duck

Lord Soth - I was trying to remember your handle yesterday! Another source of great Decware/tube advice!

With my Taboo II the Tung Sol 5Y3, stock power tubes and the right tube up-front with LCD2r1 has yielded some amazingly transparent, detailed and "like being there" moments... Alas, the LCD3F - though a better phone overall - needs different tubes and I haven't _quite_ recreated that experience yet.


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## jhljhl

argo duck said:


> Lord Soth - I was trying to remember your handle yesterday! Another source of great Decware/tube advice!
> 
> With my Taboo II the Tung Sol 5Y3, stock power tubes and the right tube up-front with LCD2r1 has yielded some amazingly transparent, detailed and "like being there" moments... Alas, the LCD3F - though a better phone overall - needs different tubes and I haven't _quite_ recreated that experience yet.


 

 What tubes do you suggest for the LCD3f?


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## Nick Dangerous

I wish I had tried the Tung Sol 5Y3, because the smaller 5Y3GT was nowhere near the top of my list in terms of sonics.


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## figaro69

lorspeaker said:


> Hey the Lorenz is sold out !!!
> 
> That same seller has TELEFUNKEN GZ32....
> anyone game for more teutonic juice for his decware?
> ...


 
 Looks like a panzer getting ready to invade Poland!


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## Lorspeaker

Putting the Sylvania 5Y3 straightbottle on stage...
 russians in betwix, regular philips upfront,
 Don Moen sounded very CLEAR, his voice cutting thru the auditorium...
 v good imaging, airy...nothing bloated, or as full bodied as a TungSol.
  
 Next song came on...wow...v clear v clean choral singing..nothing clumpped up.
  
 edit: extension on the the Highs is superb...i am having an epiphany !


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## Argo Duck

Surprisingly, a humble Tung Sol 12AU7A, paired with the TS 5Y3GT and stock power tubes.

I got a TS 12AU7 Black (1952) off Ebay as backup. Looks genuine. It's not significantly better or special sounding than the plain 12AU7 but it only got a few hours burn in.

I don't claim this is 'the best' tube combo for the Taboo II/LCD3F but it's definitely 'good' TME. My preference is neutral, transparent, lots of micro-detail and micro-dynamics. 

Btw, the 'U' is low-gain. My Taboo is paired direct with the BMC PureDAC running near full output. Not sure what Vrms it's putting out but sounds significantly louder than my 2V DACs.



jhljhl said:


> What tubes do you suggest for the LCD3f?


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## longbowbbs

I loved the Mighty 596 for a rectifier. I did have to order an adapter from 2359Glenn to use it though. Great low end slam.


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## Argo Duck

^ I recall that rectifier. Darn fine looking tube :tongue_smile:


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## longbowbbs




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## xxxfbsxxx

longbowbbs said:


>


 
 omg, thats beautiful, really curious to know how much it cost you for one 596 @__@


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## Lorspeaker

can u tie two small flags on those wires...


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## longbowbbs

lorspeaker said:


> can u tie two small flags on those wires...


 
 LOL! I never thought to try!


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## longbowbbs

xxxfbsxxx said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You have to keep a sharp eye out on eBay or the for sale forums. They vary from $75 to $200 depending on the moment. I got mine for much less. All of a sudden they went up in price almost overnight. Crazy. The RK60 is another cool choice that is similar in sound characteristics and can be had for less money. You will need another adapter for that one as it does not use the 596 adapter.


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## Lorspeaker

guys...is it safe to use Pcc88 inplace of the two stockrussian tubes? whats the diff in sound ...


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## longbowbbs

lorspeaker said:


> guys...is it safe to use Pcc88 inplace of the two stockrussian tubes? whats the diff in sound ...


 
 I cannot answer that one. I used Golden Lion 6922's in place of the 6N1P's for the L/R and left the 6N1P in place up front as suggested by Steve. Loved the sound!


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## xxxfbsxxx

lorspeaker said:


> guys...is it safe to use Pcc88 inplace of the two stockrussian tubes? whats the diff in sound ...


 
 i tried those with tesla pc188 and got scary arcing -.- then tried with various ecc88/6922 but the nosie was way too high  so i think the 6n1p is the best solution for those positions


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## Lorspeaker

Ahhh...I withdrawn my offer for a pair of pcc88..

What about 6n23p.....or 6n1p-EV...for the 2 Russian spots?


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## xxxfbsxxx

lorspeaker said:


> Ahhh...I withdrawn my offer for a pair of pcc88..
> 
> What about 6n23p.....or 6n1p-EV...for the 2 Russian spots?


 
 only bought a pair of 6n1p-ev vodsok rocket logo, compared to the stock 6n1p pair could not really tell the difference, maybe a bit more lively and energetic feeling. But i prefer it over the stock tubes for brighter glow, definitely more aesthetical pleasure ^__^


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## Lorspeaker

yes...the glow is the creme of the enjoyment when the lights are low.
  
 think i will buy a dozen of those n keep it for the next half a century.


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## Lord Soth

lorspeaker said:


> guys...is it safe to use Pcc88 inplace of the two stockrussian tubes? whats the diff in sound ...


 
 Yes, PCC88s can be subbed into amps which can run 6DJ8 tubes.
  
 The PCC88s ( 7DJ8) are sonically similar to the 6DJ8.
  
 Joe's Tube lore can provide useful insights on the 6DJ8 family
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html
  
 The Stock Russian tubes ( 6N1P) are very warm, relatively.
 They are not as sonically transparent when compared against European tubes.


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## Lorspeaker

Thanks for the info LORD 
  
 i should spend some time rolling the middle kingdom on the csp2+ ....then stock up on the winner.


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## xxxfbsxxx

just bit the gold lion genelex ecc88/6922 tube replaced lorenz pcc88, combined with lorenz gz32 results in best combination ever for hd800, massive soundstage, great 3D imagine, clear layer and instrument separation, balancing the tube smoothness and resolution, very good treble extension without any hint of sib, very low noise floor can crank volume knob to 75% before getting small noise


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## longbowbbs

xxxfbsxxx said:


> just bit the gold lion genelex ecc88/6922 tube replaced lorenz pcc88, combined with lorenz gz32 results in best combination ever for hd800, massive soundstage, great 3D imagine, clear layer and instrument separation, balancing the tube smoothness and resolution, very good treble extension without any hint of sib, very low noise floor can crank volume knob to 75% before getting small noise


 
 The golden lions really shine in Decware gear!


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## Lorspeaker

xxxfbsxxx said:


> just bit the gold lion genelex ecc88/6922 tube replaced lorenz pcc88, combined with lorenz gz32 results in best combination ever for hd800, massive soundstage, great 3D imagine, clear layer and instrument separation, balancing the tube smoothness and resolution, very good treble extension without any hint of sib, very low noise floor can crank volume knob to 75% before getting small noise


 
  
 for the front tube?  u still keeping the russian 6n1p in the middle?


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## Argo Duck

Sorry I don't understand... Did you replace the gold lion with the PCC88 - which is how I first read you - or t'other way around? TIA



xxxfbsxxx said:


> *just bit the gold lion genelex ecc88/6922 tube replaced lorenz pcc88*, combined with lorenz gz32 results in best combination ever for hd800, massive soundstage, great 3D imagine, clear layer and instrument separation, balancing the tube smoothness and resolution, very good treble extension without any hint of sib, very low noise floor can crank volume knob to 75% before getting small noise


----------



## xxxfbsxxx

lorspeaker said:


> for the front tube?  u still keeping the russian 6n1p in the middle?


 
  
 i use 2 6n1p tubes for L/R out put positions, the gold lion 6922 is in the middle/input tube, rectifier tube is lorenz GZ32


argo duck said:


> Sorry I don't understand... Did you replace the gold lion with the PCC88 - which is how I first read you - or t'other way around? TIA


 
 sorry for confusing  i replaced the lorenz pcc88 with gold lion 6922 to use with lorenz gz 32 rectifier


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## longbowbbs

xxxfbsxxx said:


> lorspeaker said:
> 
> 
> > for the front tube?  u still keeping the russian 6n1p in the middle?
> ...


 
 I had better luck the other way around using 2 Golden Lions in L/R and the 6N1P in the front.


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## Lorspeaker

http://pacifictv.ca/pixs/eiatubecodelist.pdf
  
 in case anyone is interested in those codes.


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## Lorspeaker

i wish to announce that this type of 5AW4 rectifier tube ( with the "A" pipings on the plate)
 has a v high tendency to give holographic sound with the other tubes u have.
 Buy one when u get a chance on ebay...whilst it is still reasonably cheap.
  
 (brands could be GE /CBS/ HYTRON/ Raytheon...probably same manufacturer?
 mine is branded "SHELDON"....as long as u see the A pipes?  )


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## Lorspeaker

i wish to announce that the russian 6N23P can be used on the CSP2+
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-pcs-Matched-NOS-6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-Reflector-silver-shield-vintage-tubes-/111384544557?
  
 testing them out with a russian 5C4S as rectifier ( tube on the right) ...
  

  
  
  
 front tube is a RTC E188cc..
  
 sound is v spacious...good bass punch that seem to go deeper than my current bunch of tubes...
 without being too edgy or aggressive..v sooothing kind of clear sound.
 My DT150 kept reverberating on my ears...nice !!


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