# MAC: Audio MIDI Setup for 24-bit 96/192KHz files



## igotnojob

I have a 27" (late 2010) iMac and I had a question about the setting to leave the output of Audio MIDI Setup. I have the Yulong D100 DAC (supports 24-bit/192KHz input) and would be connecting through the iMac's optical output.
   
  I have quite a few 24/96 and 24/192 files (though most of my files are 16-bit) that I would like to play back through the iMac. I do not want to spend the extortionist fees for Sound Studio Amarra. I want to set the output settings in Audio MIDI Setup *ONE TIME* and never have to change them again.
   
  My understanding is that iTunes will resample the files' output to whatever the output settings are in Audio MIDI Setup before pushing that signal out of the iMac's optical connection. If I set that output to 24-bit/96KHz, will iTunes upsample 16-bit/44.1KHz files and downsample 24-bit/192KHz to match the 24/96 setting in Audio MIDI Setup?
   
  I am guessing that 16/44.1 upsampled to 24/96 will sound better (or at least undergo less degradation) than 24/96 downsampled to 16/44.1. Is that correct? Should I set Audio MIDI Setup to 24-bit/192KHz instead or will the upsampling of 16/44.1 to 24/192 degrade the SQ more than the upsampling of 16/44.1 to 24/96?
   
  Am I correct in thinking that changing the output setting in Audio MIDI Setup will make that change permanent until I manually change the setting again? It will not reset by itself? Any help would be appreciated.


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## Roseval

Quote: 





> Am I correct in thinking that changing the output setting in Audio MIDI Setup will make that change permanent until I manually change the setting again? It will not reset by itself?


 
   Correct.
  If you want automatic sample rate switching have a look at http://www.channld.com/puremusic/index.html
   
  I wonder if Toslink is capable 192 kHz


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## MadCow

Quote: 





roseval said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, mostly correct.
   
  Except in some cases where unplugging a USB audio device or DAC and then plugging it in might reset the setting.
   
  And some buggy software (like Plex 0.8.5) always resets it to 48/16.


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## igotnojob

Thanks for the clarification. I tried the demo of Pure Music and I thought its interface was a bit cumbersome and obtrusive for my tastes. It does seem the better deal at $129 compared to Amarra though. I do like the idea of auto sample switching but I can live with resampled music as long as degradation of the SQ is not significant.
   
  The Yulong D100 does, indeed, accept up to a 24/192 signal via its Toslink optical input. Any opinions on whether I should set Audio MIDI Setup to 24/192 or 24/96? Will 16/44.1 sources sound worse resampled to one or the other? I have relatively few 24/192 files. Most of my high res music is in 24/96. Maybe that is the optimal output setting.


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## Yoga Flame

Upsampling on the DAC helps to remove jitter. So it makes sense to me to avoid upsampling on the OS where possible and let the DAC do its thing. My problem was I had a mix of different sampling rates in my collection. I did a bit of informal experimenting some time back and got these results:
   
  44.1 / 16 --[OS upsample]--> 96 / 24  == no audible difference
  44.1 / 16 --[OS upsample]--> 44.1 / 24 == no audible difference
  96 / 24 --[OS downsample]--> 44.1 / 16 == sounded worse
  96 / 24 --[OS downsample]--> 44.1 / 24 == no audible difference
   
  So I settled on using 44.1 khz / 24bit in my audio MIDI settings as a compromise. My Mac is an older model with a max sampling rate of 96 khz using optical out.
   
  If anyone else tries this do post the results here too as I'd be interested in seeing if others have the same experience.


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## cmfhsu

I believe the program has ultimate control over sample rate conversions in a mac. Unless you open a program, then go and change the audio midi settings, the output will be whatever the audio file is recorded at. What I do is set the audio at the maximum (24/96 for me) in audio midi setup, open my music player (songbird), make sure there will be no resampling in the program, and play files at 100% volume, to ensure bit perfect playback. When audio files are not 24/96, I believe songbird automatically outputs 24/44.1 (or whatever sample rate it is) without automatically upsampling it.
   
  I could be wrong, though, as I haven't used a mac for audio in a while...


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## MadCow

Quote: 





cmfhsu said:


> I believe the program has ultimate control over sample rate conversions in a mac. Unless you open a program, then go and change the audio midi settings, the output will be whatever the audio file is recorded at. What I do is set the audio at the maximum (24/96 for me) in audio midi setup, open my music player (songbird), make sure there will be no resampling in the program, and play files at 100% volume, to ensure bit perfect playback. When audio files are not 24/96, I believe songbird automatically outputs 24/44.1 (or whatever sample rate it is) without automatically upsampling it.
> 
> I could be wrong, though, as I haven't used a mac for audio in a while...


 

 Not quite.
   
  If you leave audio/midi at 24/96 and then have the player play 24/44.1 without SRC, then CoreAudio will perform the SRC.
   
  Ideally the playback software will change audio/midi's setting depending on the source format, but only a few players are able to do so (I believe Amarra is one of them).


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## Jim_T

Can one even select 24/192 in audio midi setup for the built-in digital output? I don't have anything hooked up to mine right now, and it shows 24/96 max.


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## MadCow

Quote: 





jim_t said:


> Can one even select 24/192 in audio midi setup for the built-in digital output? I don't have anything hooked up to mine right now, and it shows 24/96 max.


 


  Not that I know of. Both my MacBook Pro and Mac Mini can go up to only 24/96 with the built-in optical out.


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## museamp

The newest Macbook Pro Thunderbolt Version will input/output SPDIF TOSLINK OPTICAL 24 Bit 192KHZ I/O in  Audio Midi Setup Snow Leopard 64 Bit Logic Pro in 64 Bit very Low Latency. Soon FCP in 64 Bit. The  i7 Quad core chip in the new ThunderBooks have integrated INTEL HD AUDIO that handles 32 Bit 192 KHZ  X 8 . So Mytec 192 ADC or others In. Audiophile DAC out whatever your flavor Prism, Mytec, Crane Song or Weiss. 
   
   
  Tommy Hollister


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## doolak

Hi there,
   
  i have the problem that my settings are allwas resetted after restart - if i set the format to 96000Hz / 24bit it will be resetted to 44100Hz / 16bit after restart.
   
  I tried several "fixes" - deleted the plist files in Library/Preferences/Audio, deleted the complete Audio folder and recreated it with the terminal and tried a PRAM reset: no success.
   
  I have no idea which application could maybe reset the settings after restart - to check even that possibility i deleted a NI Hardware Tool and the iTunes Helper from the login items - but still the same problem.
   
   I tried Amarra and its autodetect changes automatically from 44100 to 96000 Hz - but i have to change from 16 to 24 bit allways manually within the Audio Devices settings..
   
  Anyone an idea how i can make my iMac remember those settings?
   
  Kind regards,
   
  Christian


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## DarkSleip

try using Decibel to play music, as it somehow manages the sampling better the difference will be audible and the sample rates will change automatically


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## Mediahound

I've been told you always want to match the bit and sampling rate of the original, ie 44.1 and 16bit for ripped CDs. iTunes will only play a track bit-perfectly if Audio MIDI Setup's sample frequency matches that of the track being played. 
   
  If you set it to higher, your OS will resample it but there can be quality loss in that process since it's mis-matched.


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## DarkSleip

You should be able to bypass the OS's sampling rate. But it doesn't really matter as it is possible to cut off a 192 kHz file down to a 96 kHz sampling rate to get a better audible SQ (as 192 kHz D/A C's are not actually able to process the signal)


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## tjones1

This is a very interesting thread because I just got AudioEngine's DAC (along with their A5+) and would like to output 192 kHz from my macbook air with Decibel. Audio MIDI Setup only shows 96 kHz maximum sample rate for the DAC output (and the onboard output for that matter).
   
  So, will I not be getting any better output with my DAC since the sample rate and bit depth will be the same? 
   
  And DarkSleip, could you explain your comment about DACs not being able to handle 192 kHz? AudioEngine indicates theirs can handle up to 192 kHz but it doesn't even seem selectable with Audio MIDI Setup.
   
  Also, is there a way to bypass the Audio MIDI Setup to get true 192 kHz output that is affordable? 
   
  (This is USB output.)
   
  Thank you for your time everyone.
   
  Tucker


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## tjones1

Update: with audioengine's DAC there is optical in and USB in. USB can handle up to 96 kHz and optical can handle up to 192 kHz. Hence me not being able to play 192 kHz via USB.


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## DarkSleip

Quote: 





tjones1 said:


> This is a very interesting thread because I just got AudioEngine's DAC (along with their A5+) and would like to output 192 kHz from my macbook air with Decibel. Audio MIDI Setup only shows 96 kHz maximum sample rate for the DAC output (and the onboard output for that matter).
> 
> So, will I not be getting any better output with my DAC since the sample rate and bit depth will be the same?
> 
> ...


 
  If you mind looking at this article http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html


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## suzzz

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  Hi!! Honestly Speaking, iTunes is not my favourite player, but if you use it, BitPerfect is what you're looking for. (you can buy it in the mac app store)
   
  I use Cog for mac, because it is the most neutral reference-class player I have ever heard up to date. Although it doesn't have the feature of automatic sample rate selection(( Also you can try Audirvana Plus, which does have the feature, but IMHO sounds a bit more hi-fi-ish and does not give the soundstage and the air of Cog.
   
  Hope that helps
     
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## cmcinhk

I have the Stoner Acoustics UD120 USB DAC and I am able to get 192kHz through USB output, it simply depends if the DAC is connected to USB Hi-Speed Bus (192kHz) or simply USB Bus (96kHz), you can check this with System Information. Normally I get 96kHz but I just unplug it and plug it back a couple of times for 192kHz, and you don't need a top of the line mac to be able to do this cause my mac's pretty old.


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## schalliol

Resurrecting an old thread.  What do you see as the cheapest bit perfect way to get 24/192 from a Mac that doesn't have 24/192 output capability from the optical port, like the iMac 5K I just picked up?  I can use optical or coaxial.
  
 Is the cheapest thing the HiFace Two?  The Mac can connect via USB, FireWire, HDMI, and Thunderbolt.  I know HDMI can get 24/192, but I don't know what device can make the conversion.  Thanks!


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## Mediahound

USB for sure.


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## schalliol

Okay, so connecting from USB to what for coax or optical?


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## Mediahound

schalliol said:


> Okay, so connecting from USB to what for coax or optical?


 

 Oh, your DAC doesn't have USB in? If no, I'd get a USB to coax or optical converter, or get another DAC.


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## schalliol

It does, but it's not a brand new DAC that only does 24/192 to balanced XLRs via coax or optical.  I'm just trying to find the best way to get USB to one of these two digital inputs.  Hi-Face Two worked, but I don't particularly like it.


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## rclark07m

Why don't you just use the optical out on your iMac? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202730


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## schalliol

Gotcha.  Yes, that's ideal.  I need to update the desktop rig (old one didn't with its proper full size Toslink), but for some reason, the brand new iMac 27" 5K i7 4GHz unit I have doesn't support optical at 192.  Indeed, the MBP does.


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## rclark07m

That is odd. Now that I look closer, it appears that only one generation of iMacs supported it, unless this is an old support link that hasn't really been updated. I see the iMac 5K does have an optical out. Strange that they would degrade it's specs.


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## schalliol

Agreed. Silly.

It just shows they didn't care either way and just used what fit their requirements.


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## Soundizer

mediahound said:


> I've been told you always want to match the bit and sampling rate of the original, ie 44.1 and 16bit for ripped CDs. iTunes will only play a track bit-perfectly if Audio MIDI Setup's sample frequency matches that of the track being played.
> 
> 
> If you set it to higher, your OS will resample it but there can be quality loss in that process since it's mis-matched.




Hello Mediahound and Happy New Year,

Is this also true when connecting to Chord Mojo. 
I use Apple iMac and iTunes playing 44.1kHz / 16 bit audio which is Apple Music.
Connected to Mojo via Optical.

I set the sample rate in Audio Midi software to 44.1kHz to match the source audio, but not sure what bit rate to set (16bit, 20bit, 24bit, 32bit are the options). Any chance you could suggest the right bit rate Please?

Soundizer


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## Mediahound

soundizer said:


> Hello Mediahound and Happy New Year,
> 
> Is this also true when connecting to Chord Mojo.
> I use Apple iMac and iTunes playing 44.1kHz / 16 bit audio which is Apple Music.
> ...


 
 16bit.


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## musickid

Ive joined this forum to try and find the answer to a question that i cant find elsewhere. i use an external digital to analogue convertor (dac) with my imac late 2013 27inch. the dac is linked to a dedicated headphone amplifier. i want to be 100% sure that the clock in the dac is the one being used and NOT the macs clock. i use usb out of mac with a usb to spdif (coax) convertor to the dac. here's the problem.

very simply in audio midi set up there are two options for controlling the dac. one reads clock source default and is greyed out. here you can alter the sample rate and bit rate. the other option is to add the dac as an aggregate device. here the clock source now reads out the name of the dac but i think you now only alter the sample rate not the bit rate. i like the fact here that the dac shows up in clock source but i am still not sure which option is correct to ensure it is the dac clock which ultimately gets used and not the clock in the computer. or am i off target here? do both of the above options lead to the dac being in full control. i appreciate your help. after many enquiries i still dont have an answer to this. why would some people use one of the above options and not the other or vice versa.

THIS IS WHAT THE APPLE WEBSITE SAYS:
"Clock source:
Leave the “Clock source” pop-up menu set to Default unless you’re using an audio device that sends its own timing (clock) messages."

The "normal" setting in audio midi setup says clock source default. only when my dac is set as an aggregate device does the name of the dac appear next to clock source. this is what i want. to make sure the dacs clock is being used as it is an expensive dac used for audio hifi through beyer dt880 headphones. so it would be okay to set the dac as an aggregate device but i thought aggregate devices were for multiple devices. i only have one external device device connected to the imac ie my dac. also i am not an audio expert by any means. here is the same query from someonelse on the computer audiophile website:

"I just purchased a NuForce U Dac2 SE that is Asynchronous. You have to forgive me if this is a newbie question, but does the internal clock of the DAC automatically get utilized? The DAC itself is working fine but the screen in the Audio MIDI setup says the clock source is: default. The Help menu for clock source says:
"Leave the “Clock source” pop-up menu set to Default unless you’re using an audio device that sends its own timing (clock) messages."
The thing is I can't seem to find any pop up menu to select clock source, Again it just says "default" which leads me to believe the macs own clock is being used. I can choose the format and set it to 96khz. I include a screen shot if that helps. Any thoughts?"
it goes on: "Just trying to verify if it's own clock is being used when connected to a Mac since the Mac lists the clock as "default" and I don't know whether that means the DACs own clock or the Mac's."

i would be so grateful if the real experts here could dig deep and find the definitive 100% correct answer to this. after nearly a year i have been unable to. the dac i will be using costs in excess of £1300. 

many thanks to all.MK.
musickid

Posts: 1


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## sejsel

musickid said:


> Ive joined this forum to try and find the answer to a question that i cant find elsewhere. i use an external digital to analogue convertor (dac) with my imac late 2013 27inch. the dac is linked to a dedicated headphone amplifier. i want to be 100% sure that the clock in the dac is the one being used and NOT the macs clock. i use usb out of mac with a usb to spdif (coax) convertor to the dac. here's the problem.
> 
> very simply in audio midi set up there are two options for controlling the dac. one reads clock source default and is greyed out. here you can alter the sample rate and bit rate. the other option is to add the dac as an aggregate device. here the clock source now reads out the name of the dac but i think you now only alter the sample rate not the bit rate. i like the fact here that the dac shows up in clock source but i am still not sure which option is correct to ensure it is the dac clock which ultimately gets used and not the clock in the computer. or am i off target here? do both of the above options lead to the dac being in full control. i appreciate your help. after many enquiries i still dont have an answer to this. why would some people use one of the above options and not the other or vice versa.
> 
> ...




Curious to know whether you have ever found a solution to this, as I am tampering with the similar problem.


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## musickid (Jun 29, 2020)

there is no problem. audio midi set up determines the outgoing sample rate of the music which is sent to the dac. exclusive mode such as in tidal can take control of this if set to on. any usb dac which is asynchrous and connected to the mac automatically takes control of the timing and handling of any incoming audio stream. the name of your dac should be visible in audio midi next to clock source. when default is showing this refers to the clock of the dac inside the mac. that should only be relevant when listening to music via the mac's speaker or headphone output. i've come a long way in 3 years.....


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## sejsel

musickid said:


> there is no problem. audio midi set up determines the outgoing sample rate of the music which is sent to the dac. exclusive mode such as in tidal can take control of this if set to on. any usb dac which is asynchrous and connected to the mac automatically takes control of the timing and handling of any incoming audio stream. the name of your dac should be visible in audio midi next to clock source. when default is showing this refers to the clock of the dac inside the mac. that should only be relevant when listening to music via the mac's speaker or headphone output. i've come a long way in 3 years.



Well, there is a problem on my behalf. I am using the built in DAC of the Quad Pa One headphone amp / DAC, that has max res. of 192 kHz. The Audio Midi app clearly shows that the Quad's internal clock has (supposedly) taken over and used for the sound output.
This via USB out from macbook pro retina mid 2015, Mac OS 10.12 Sierra. 
Trying with both Pine Player and Audirvana Plus apps gets me nowhere; max res. that MacBook Pro can output is still the 96 kHz, trying anything above it results in no audio, or weird audio, at best.


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## musickid (Jun 29, 2020)

the mac must be limited to 96khz out as is my late 2013 imac 27inch. but that's normally optical not usb. have you tried using exclusive mode with audirvana or manually setting the audio midi set up to 192khz output. exclusive mode overrides audio midi set up so audirvana would play a 192 file through your mac if that is the sampling rate of the track.


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## sejsel

musickid said:


> the mac must be limited to 96khz out as is my late 2013 imac 27inch. but that's normally optical not usb. have you tried using exclusive mode with audirvana or manually setting the audio midi set up to 192khz output.



I have tried the latter, that is manually setting the audio midi set up to 192 kHz output, with result as given in my previous post. 
I have tinkered with settings (preferences) in Audirvana, but either have I done something wrong there, or not ever came to the Audirvana exclusive mode, whatever it is.


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## musickid

research exclusive mode as it will take over all sample rate values going out of your mac to the quad. apart from that try disconnecting everything and reconnect. apart from that i can't think of anything else. try tidal exclusive mode as this solves all issues.


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## sejsel

musickid said:


> research exclusive mode as it will take over all sample rate values going out of your mac to the quad. apart from that try disconnecting everything and reconnect. apart from that i can't think of anything else. try tidal exclusive mode as this solves all issues.


Tube amp requires warm-up of at least 15 minutes (as stated in its manual) in order to be ready to use with the headphones. 
I will keep you posted on the progress. I remember I have tinkered with the exclusive mode in Audirvana+ , did either set it on or off. 
I have not used Tidal since some time ago, I might give it a try later on.
I have also read earlier about disconnecting and reconnecting several times, so we'll see. 
The source material I got, when I did the testing is stated as DSD 352 kHz 5644 kbit/s dff file.


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