# What is the best DIY DAC available today?



## JahJahBinks

I want to build a DAC and want it to be substantially better in quality than commerical DACs in the same price range. Any available?


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## 00940

best dac as in no price limit ?

 Among the interesting offers, I'd check this one. Secondary PLL to reduce jitter, input transformer, PCM63K, 4-layers board, tube output stage. Tons of good thing.

http://members.chello.nl/%7em.heijli...tml/dactop.htm 

 Another interesting website to check : http://www.kandkaudio.com/digitalaudio.html


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## shplorgh

http://audionotekits.espyderweb.net/dac.htm

 That's gotten some great reviews, and as you can see there are a ton of tweaks and mods you can do to it. I've been interested in it lately too...


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## dsavitsk

You might also look at the Audio Note kit: http://audionotekits.espyderweb.net/dac.htm


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## shplorgh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsavitsk* 
_You might also look at the Audio Note kit: http://audionotekits.espyderweb.net/dac.htm_

 

By a hair!


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## 00940

Btw, what Audionote calls "1X oversampling" is just non-oversampling. Marketing....


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## JahJahBinks

Audio Note Dac 1.1 looks pretty good, any place to order the PCB?

 Also what's that dorky looking input connector on the back, is that USB?

 Actually on second thought, it is not really what I am looking for. I am looking for something that's smaller in size, (size of PPA), that I can carry it from home to work.


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## shplorgh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JahJahBinks* 
_Audio Note Dac 1.1 looks pretty good, any place to order the PCB?

 Also what's that dorky looking input connector on the back, is that USB?_

 

www.audionotekits.com at the bottom, it even comes with the case!

 What dorky looking input? All I see is a spidf coaxial and AES/EBU connector.


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## JahJahBinks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hungrych* 
_www.audionotekits.com at the bottom, it even comes with the case!

 What dorky looking input? All I see is a spidf coaxial and AES/EBU connector._

 

You mean it doesn't support USB? How am I gonna get the sound out from my computer? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry I didn't think DIY DAC can be as complicated as that, I was thinking somewhere along the line of where PPA is on the food chain among amplifiers.
 And yes, my source is my computer, I would need a USB, preferably a DAC that doesn't need additional driver because I don't have admin right on my computer at work, so no driver can be installed. Of course if that doesn't work, I am always happy to use it at home.


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## 00940

You could try to get one of the board AOS had produced to be used together with the PPA. They were said to sound good. Perhaps someone has one sitting somewhere unused. If not, perhaps would he be willing to give you the gerbers files to have a pcb done. 

http://aoselectronics.com/ally.html


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## Clutz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *00940* 
_You could try to get one of the board AOS had produced to be used together with the PPA. They were said to sound good. Perhaps someone has one sitting somewhere unused. If not, perhaps would he be willing to give you the gerbers files to have a pcb done. 

http://aoselectronics.com/ally.html_

 

Where is AOS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Ally seems really good to me. I think DaKiller's USB dac looks awesome.. but it's quite involved from the sounds of things. 

 Alf's DAC is coming along nicely too.


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## chris719

Personally, I think non os is inferior to a properly designed dac. I built myself a tda1543 and was not that impressed, if your definition of musical is rolled off highs, less detail and looser bass then by all means go for it. 

 USB dacs are not going to give you top of the line performance if they don't use the PCM2706 only to convert USB to I2S and use that to feed a high end dac IC. Almost every single USB dac uses the PCM2706 as the dac itself and it is basically a cheap sigma delta part. 

 From a technical standpoint, the best way to go is a multibit R2R or one of the hybrid designs with discrete IV or passive IV (no opamp!) conversion. This means no sigma delta parts with voltage outputs. These limits reduce you to the choice of a few dac chips: BB PCM1704 (probably the best according to many), BB PCM1702 (similar to 1704), BB PCM1794, AD1862, AD1865, BB PCM63.

 The dac must also have some sort of high quality clock and absolutely not feed the DAC with the clock coming out of the digital filter. Reclocking or separate external PLLs are a big plus.

 The only designs that don't violate all these "rules" are the dac by Guido Tent that was linked to by 00940, and this one http://www.hagtech.com/hagdac.html 
 which uses the top of the line PCM1704 and very clever use of inductors to carefully control risetimes on every line. The RAKK dac that 00940 linked to also looks well designed. SMD parts are good.


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## diablo9

I didn't know you guys still have so many DIY DAC candidates other than my list. Got collect them into my library.


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## JahJahBinks

Yeah, I was reading an article on whether it's cost justified to build a USB DAC vs. buying one.

 Well......LOL.

 So none USB DAC is really worth an investment?


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## jboehle

I built the original Guzzler/00940 USB DAC when the kit was something like $35. I thought that was well worth it. Probably not the "BEST DIY DAC" available, but, eh.

 -Jason


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## chris719

It depends how the USB DAC is implemented, but I have not seen one yet that would qualify as the "best" dac you can build from a kit.


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## JahJahBinks

I have an Audigy 2 ZS Sound card, suppose I don't use USB, what other options do I have here to get the signal out? I see a bunch of line outs and a FireWire connector on the back of the sound card. It has a CD SPDIF connector but that's on top of the card, should that be connected to the SPDIF on the DAC?

 One way I know is to buy a second DAC that has USB in and SPDIF out and connect that to the first DAC, but that's just more money for no addition performance and probably will decrease quality.


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## Francis_Vaughan

Using something like the PCM2706 should not really be regarded as wasteful, it is simply a perfectly fine USB audio receiver that just happens to have a tiny DAC in one corner of the chip. All of the alternatives are vastly more work - such as the TI TUSB3200. Much more capable too, but, in its own way, overkill.

 You can go straight to I2S in any design too - but you don't avoid the reclocking issues. 

 Currently I am working towards a HagDAC in my PPA. Needs a bit of fiddling - but I have very high hopes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As to feeding it. The HagDAC sucks S/PDIF and the perfect device is an Apple Airport Express. Or, interestingly enough, an iPod. But the mod for that is going to be ummm, interesting.


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## JahJahBinks

I found something like this one: http://www.ecp.cc/usb-spdif.html

 But I don't have the soldering skill for SMD.

 Chime DAC is a bit too expensive

 anyone tried Audio Workshop D3 Kit?


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## motherone

Well, I personally like the Monica 2 DAC From diyparadise.com. Non-os, asynchronously-reclocked using a TDA1545 with passive I/V. It sounds fantastic with Grado's.. Takes care of their "shrillness" and removes sibilence from many of my brighter recordings. Makes them infinitely more listenable. 

 I've also built the DAC 1739 from audiodiylab.com .. It's sort of a standard dac using a CS8416 with a Burr-brown PCM1739 DAC. It's heavily regulated, using separate transformers for the audio and digital sections, along with 7 regulator stages. Very nice sounding. It's more detailed and crisp than the Monica. A good DAC if your system is on the "warmer" side (I really hate using audiophile verbage, but it's hard to describe them otherwise). 

 A PCM1704 DAC is next on my DIY todo list.


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## JahJahBinks

I think I am gonna take a shot at the dac at audioworkshop.


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## ScubaSteve87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JahJahBinks* 
_I think I am gonna take a shot at the dac at audioworkshop._

 

I have been looking that this DAC for a while. I know that the DAC is the missing link in my setup, so I either need to build one or get one. It would be either this or probably a Lite DAC-AH. Any opinions on which would be better?


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## JahJahBinks

Does Lite DAC-AH have USB Input?


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## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JahJahBinks* 
_Does Lite DAC-AH have USB Input?_

 

nope


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## flecom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chris719* 
_Personally, I think non os is inferior to a properly designed dac. I built myself a tda1543 and was not that impressed, if your definition of musical is rolled off highs, less detail and looser bass then by all means go for it._

 

i have to agree, i built a non-os dac using 8 TDA1543's and tweaked the crap out of it adjusted it with an oscilliscope and all that jazz.... and i still just didnt like the way it sounded that much... went back to the AKM dac thats in my behringer, go figure


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## Nerull

I had the same problem as you.
 I made my own design, not only for a school project, but for a serious contender with the Benchmark DAC or any of the DACs in that range. Higher DACs have DSP, which need programming and LOTS more work. I built one that should be on par with the Benchmark DAC, and I will post pics and a work log (and of course, impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). But yes, by far, the best thing to do is build your own. This is, after all, DIY 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Plus making your own design allows you a lot of quality control *especially on the output stage and clocking of the thing*. And you learn quite a bit about digital stuff and how it works.

 Have fun, above all!

 ~Tom


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## JahJahBinks

So DIY DAC is not like DIY amp where you spend $200 for a PPA and it can rival a $500 commerical amp.

 Maybe i am better off order a Micro DAC. I wish they make a product with the Max DAC in it, or if they could sell the Max DAC board and I will hook up the power and put it in a case.


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## Nisbeth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JahJahBinks* 
_So DIY DAC is not like DIY amp where you spend $200 for a PPA and it can rival a $500 commerical amp._

 

Depends on what you buy. It's also possible to spend $500 on parts for a DIY amp that does not sound nearly as good as a $200 commercial amp (though you have to work a bit at it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


 /U.


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## flecom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JahJahBinks* 
_So DIY DAC is not like DIY amp where you spend $200 for a PPA and it can rival a $500 commerical amp.

 Maybe i am better off order a Micro DAC. I wish they make a product with the Max DAC in it, or if they could sell the Max DAC board and I will hook up the power and put it in a case._

 

with the amount of money i spent on parts for my NOS dac, i could have spent an extra $50 and bought a DAC-AH... but oh well, i prefer to build it myself anyway


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## jboehle

JahJahBinks, did you pick a DAC to build yet?


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## JahJahBinks

nope, i ordered the microdac to see how much difference can it make.


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## JahJahBinks

okay, microdac arrived today. I am comparing it with Audigy 2 ZS soundcard.


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## jboehle

Very interested to hear your impressions!


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## JahJahBinks

While I cannot put it in exact words, a better DAC does help. I might consider building one myself too.


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## JahJahBinks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hungrych* 
_http://audionotekits.espyderweb.net/dac.htm

 That's gotten some great reviews, and as you can see there are a ton of tweaks and mods you can do to it. I've been interested in it lately too..._

 

For other people who are interested in Audio Note, see my impression at :

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=151508


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