# McIntosh MHA200 Impressions



## warrenpchi (May 11, 2021)

As the first units are appearing in the wild now, we now have a chance to get some impressions in.

I'll be adding direct links to each set of impressions below, as they are posted, so that it's easy to jump directly to them.

*Index of impressions:*

Single track impression w/HD 800:  Wild Mountainside
Full impressions:  Crowbar44
Update/Addendum:  Crowbar44


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## jwbrent

Looking forward to impressions. Since I only collect IEMs, I’m still not sure whether this would be overkill for my use, but I hope not since I love the aesthetics of this amp. I only wish the single XLR output was instead a 4.4mm output so an adapter isn’t necessary.


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## TSAVJason

jwbrent said:


> Looking forward to impressions. Since I only collect IEMs, I’m still not sure whether this would be overkill for my use, but I hope not since I love the aesthetics of this amp. I only wish the single XLR output was instead a 4.4mm output so an adapter isn’t necessary.



we’re doing a little repair on our YouTube account and will post at 25 minute video with Warren and I discussing our initial impressions and listening gear we used to listen to the MHA200. The MHA200 doesn’t suck! 😂


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## gonzalo05

TSAVJason said:


> we’re doing a little repair on our YouTube account and will post at 25 minute video with Warren and I discussing our initial impressions and listening gear we used to listen to the MHA200. The MHA200 doesn’t suck! 😂


What's the YouTube channel name?


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## warrenpchi

Its alive! 😃  But first, dinner (actually lunch for me).


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## jwbrent

TSAVJason said:


> we’re doing a little repair on our YouTube account and will post at 25 minute video with Warren and I discussing our initial impressions and listening gear we used to listen to the MHA200. The MHA200 doesn’t suck! 😂



Hey Jason, it’s been awhile since I’ve been around any McIntosh gear. Do they use captive AC cables on all their products?


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## warrenpchi

jwbrent said:


> Looking forward to impressions. Since I only collect IEMs, I’m still not sure whether this would be overkill for my use, but I hope not since I love the aesthetics of this amp. I only wish the single XLR output was instead a 4.4mm output so an adapter isn’t necessary.



There will be more about this in the video that Jason's posting, but the MHA200 is dead silent with IEMs.  Overkill?  Perhaps.  But makes sense given this is Head-Fi?  Definitely!   🤣


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## TSAVJason

gonzalo05 said:


> What's the YouTube channel name?


The Source AV ...... it’ll be linked here as well.


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## gonzalo05

TSAVJason said:


> The Source AV ...... it’ll be linked here as well.


Thank you.


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## Mightygrey

Very keen to hear more about this one. The aesthetics are stunning.


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## warrenpchi (May 6, 2021)

*"Wild Mountainside" (Live) from In The Music
by The Trashcan Sinatras (Lo-Five Records)*

*Qobuz:  https://open.qobuz.com/track/15740234*

A hauntingly-beautiful live rendition, of a quintessential bard's ballad, this bittersweet track harkens me back to the Highlands... aye it does... and I'm not even Scottish.  Performed to perfection, I find this recording - while just another night at random pub somewhere - to be the definitive version over the studio recording.  When my time on this Earth is up, this track by my favorite band - far more than any other - is the one I want played at my funeral.

*Signal Chain:*  Qobuz on MacBook Pro ▶ Nordost Blue Heaven USB ▶ Matrix Element i ▶ Kimber Kable Select 1136 ▶ McIntosh MHA200 ▶ Kimber Kable AXIOS Cu Balanced ▶ Sennheiser HD 800

The legendary and magical McIntosh mid-range carries this track to greater heights than I've heard in a long, long time.  Texturally, I can almost hear a longing for reprieve, filtered through years of Scotch and cigarettes, detailed in Frank Reader's voice, nicely layered amidst Paul Livingston, John Douglas and Steven Douglas on lead guitar, rhythm guitar and percussion respectively.

As a largely acoustic track, with only the barest of amplification for sonic support, this track is obviously shy on bass and sub-bass.  That said, the lower mids were both weighty and warm, something that I did not expect from an MHA200 and HD 800 pairing.  Based on auditions earlier in the day at The Source AV, one dimension I did expect was a superb sense of openness and spaciousness, as the MHA200 and HD 800 teamed up to do what they do best, together.  I was not disappointed.

After so many years, and countless pieces of kit, it's a rare occasion that any audition gives me chills.  This did.  God, I've missed this feeling so much.


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## Crowbar44 (May 23, 2021)

So...many thanks to TSAVJason and Moderator Supreme warrenpchi... got this beast today...





So lets get the basics out of the way:

1) The amp comes in a box...it is brown, the packing prevents it from being destroyed in shipping...this is good.
2) This is a HEFTY piece of equipment...I did not weigh it but those transformers are weighty.
3) Out of the box the tubes are encased in a substantial cage to prevent morons from somehow burning themselves...I removed the cage and will never install it...you should do the same (as you can see in the picture above) ... unless you are prone to placing vacuum tubes in places where they do not belong.  I've run my amp for 6 hours and can still touch the tubes...they get only slightly warm - impossible to imagine anyone burning themselves on these.
4) The chrome finish on the unit is very shiny, retro and beautiful.   It will leave fingerprints, get over it...buy a box of Kleenex.  Also, the McIntosh logo on the side is big...and retro...this is important...see below
5) You've got a myriad of balanced and unbalanced inputs and outputs...this is very good.  I do not understand if this is an "end-to end" balanced design, I don't think it is...I don't really care.
6) This amp has a dial that lets you select the impedance of the headphones you are using...anywhere from 38 Ohm to 600 Ohm...this is pretty cool, and an old trick used by McIntosh since the old days.  They hand wind their transformers to allow for this to happen.  It is fancy, I do not fully understand the engineering behind this...
7) This amp is made by McIntosh, they are probably the oldest "high-end" audio manufacturer in the US.  I remember looking at dusty, used, McIntosh gear at Stereo Exchange on Broadway in Manhattan in the 90's, a 10 year old McIntosh tube receiver cost $2000 back then and looked like my grandpa's hi-fi...I realized that this gear must be special...I couldn't afford it back then.  The McIntosh tube gear from that era had a big, obnoxious, McIntosh logo on it, written in gothic script...I thought this was cool in 1994 and dates to probably 1964 (see above #4), it's still cool.   If you disagree please go back and install the vacuum tube cage on this unit.
8)The tubes are lit from below by green LEDs...they blink nicely when you turn the unit on as they warm up.  You cannot turn the green LEDs off...this is probably because the tubes emit only a faint (very faint) orange glow when running...and everyone wants light from their tubes...don't they?  I don't love the green LEDs .. I don't hate them...who cares.
9) This amp costs $2,500...which is quite expensive...but it's something special, and it is absolutely, unequivocally, worth the money.

OK...so...I have only listened to this amp for around 6 hours...it may need more burn in, I may be a tiny bit drunk, buut...I think it sounds absolutely fantastic...let me describe my somewhat compromised setup as it stands today:

1) LCD 2f's single ended TRS headphones
2) I'm using the pre-outs from my Schiit Asgard 3 Multibit to feed the MHA-200...becaaause, Schiit is on backorder on the Bifrost 2 I ordered...blame the global chip shortage...but this is a suboptimal setup admittedly.  This amp absolutely deserves a dedicated DAC.
3) "No name" cables from Amazon...I don't do expensive cables...
4) Amazon HD source via Windows 10 USB exclusive mode.  Yes, yes, I know about Quobuz/Tidal, I don't care.  Amazon has the most music, and the most Classical...period.

So about the sound...I'll post more over the coming days.  Keep in mind I'm upgrading from an Asgard 3  Multibit.  This setup of running the pre-outs from the Asgard 3 does have the one advantage of allowing me to just unplug from the MHA-200 and into the Asgard 3 for quick comparisons, albeit not level matched, but the sound difference was not subtle...it was actually a revelation as to how much better the MHA-200 was.

If I were to generalize, I'd say the musicality and resolution of the MHA 200 was the thing that struck me most.  The Asgard sounded muddy and veiled in comparison...these differences were not at all subtle, and not due to the DAC, as I used the Asgard 3's onboard DAC for all comparisons.  This is not a swipe at Schiit, I love the company, but the MHA-200 costs 6x what an Asgard 3 MB costs...and the Asgard 3 MB includes a DAC!  But the speed of the transitions on the MHA-200 are incredible.  Comparing the MHA-250 to the Asgard  3 is an extremely unfair comparison - but its all I have on hand.  With that said, I think the McIntosh can hold its own against frankly any amp out there - either tube or solid state.

The bass performance was excellent...example:
1) On Amber Rubarth's "Sessions from the 17th Ward" "Strive" has some incredibly punchy percussion, the transients were amazing.  The soundstage on this Chesky recording is also outstanding, it was amazing on the MHA-200...much wider and open than the Asgard 3.  The soundstage also gives you not only lateral extension but some mainly rearward soundstage as well.  Bottom line...I find discussions of soundstage with headphones moot.  No headphone is capable of reproducing a remotely realistic soundstage compared to speakers...
2) Billie Eilish "Bad Guy"...wow...just wow, no breakup, seemed to reach much deeper than the Asgard 3.  And the base is tight and snappy.

Treble is "tubey" and non-fatiguing.
1) On Crucifixus by The Sixteen and Harry Christophers (Early Music - think Gregorian Chant) there are some ear bleeding, female, highs, that I have always found hard to take, although I love this piece.  I found these highs actually bearable on the MHA-200

Instrument separation is great...but the difference between the Asgard 3 was subtler with Classical orchestral recordings, the MHA-200 really shines with more intimate music (chamber, jazz quartet, etc.), complex orchestral pieces are extremely well done, but differences between other amps is subtler
1) Vivaldi's RV 563 By Sir Neville Marriner and the Academy of St Martin in the Fields was quite similar to the Asgard 3
2) Same goes for Corelli with Philharmonia Baroque
3) Jazz at the Pawnshop (Chesky Records) is an exception FANTASTIC instrument separation...best I've heard, and I know this recording very well.

The last thing I'll say is that although the MHA250 resembles a shrunken, classic Mcintosh MC250 tube speaker amp...it is very different from that amp in regard to it's sound signature in every way, and for the better.  The speaker amp is very old school tubes...rolled highs, flabby, indistinct base, but gorgeous midrange.  The headphone amp keeps the amazing midrange but adds extended, musical highs, and tight, deep, punchy bass.  I love this thing, it's really really good, and will drive just about any headphone out there.


OK...I'm getting tired, looking forward to more discussion on this outstaAnding, albeit pricey, amp.

Cheers!

*Addendum 5/10/2021:*

So I've been listening to the MHA200 with my Sennheiser HD660S's over the past 2 days, and I'd hazard to say that I prefer them with the MHA200 over the LCD-2f's.  The mid-bass goes a touch deeper than with the LCD-2's and I'm hearing a bit more individual separation between instruments.  I DEFINATELY prefer the Senns for Classical music with the MHA200.  The downsides of the Senns is slightly more peaky treble compared to the LCD-2f.  I find the Senns to be a more resolving headphone in general, and when combined with the outstanding resolution of the MHA200, suffice it to say that I'm hearing things I've never heard before.

* Addendum 5/11/2021*

So I've lived with the MHA200 for around a week, and I have noted some nits that I'd like to point out.  None of these nits relate to sound quality. 

1) On my unit, the volume pot is a tiny bit loose in the chassis...not bad, but as the pot is the only thing we touch on an amp, if the feel of the pot is not great, perceived quality suffers.  Jason Stoddard at Schiit has noted this repeatedly in his blog posts here on Head-Fi, which is why Schiit pays a lot of attention to pot performance and feel.

2) I find the volume ramp up on the pot to be VERY steep past 12:00 - to the point that I have to press my fingers against the chassis when I'm increasing volume past 12:00 to insure I don't deafen myself, in fact, the "usable" volume range on my unit is only between 12:00 and 1:30...very tight.

It seems that in designing the MHA200, McIntosh put a premium on the ability of the MHA200 to integrate into existing McIntosh systems, specifically McIntosh pre-amps.  So as the user manual states, they recommend keeping the MHA200 pot at 12:00 (it has a detent at 12:00 to help with this) and using your pre-amp volume control to control volume.  I'm using a similar setup with my Asgard 3 multibit, I'm using the pre-outs from the Asgard to feed the amp.  But I find I don't get enough volume with the amp volume pot at 12:00 and using the Asgard's volume pot.  So I'm just keeping the Asgard pot at 12:00 and using the MHA200 to adjust volume...but as I said above, with this setup the "usable" volume is only between 12:00 at 1:30..which makes volume adjustment touchy.

Maybe things will be better once my Bifrost 2 arrives, perhaps the setup using the Asgard 3 as a pre-amp/DAC isn't ideal with the MHA200.  Would appreciate input from Warren or other owners to hear if they have similar issues - especially those folks who are using the MHA200 with a dedicated DAC with fixed outputs.

The thing still sounds fantastic though...still glad I bought it...

*Addendum 5/23/2021*

So my OG Clears arrived last week and I've spent some time listening to the MHA200 with them in addition to the LCD-2f and HD660S.

I suspect that the Clears still need some more break in, but I've heard enough to say that they certainly pair well with the MHA200.

One nice feature of the MHA200 is it's ability to drive two sets of headphones simultaneously via the both the TRS and XLR outputs (I don't know whether you could drive a third set with the dual XLR outputs...but suspect you could, as all three outputs appear to be driven all the time).  Though not level matched, this feature made it pretty easy to switch between headphones quickly.  There is ZERO change to the sonic signature when you plug a second set of cans into the MHA200 (not even a click or static).  I switched between XLR and TRS cables a number of times as well, and could not detect any difference between the different outputs (I did not have any duel XLR cables, so can't comment on that output).

In terms of preference...well, I prefer the LCD-2f with the MHA200 as opposed to the OG Clears.  This is mainly because the LCD-2s allow that gorgeous midrange from the MHA200 to come though more fully.  The OG Clears are more dynamic, faster, have better bass, and are fantastic headphones.  I prefer the OG Clears with my Asgard 3, as it complements that warmer, albeit more veiled, amp.  The OG Clears are far more resolving with the MHA200 than the LCD-2fs, but with the kind of smaller, intimate, music I prefer, I found the LCD-2fs more musical.  

If you want a very fast presentation, with great, tight, deep, bass and notable highs, the OG Clears and the MHA200 are gonna be for you.  This is a great rock/pop pairing for me.  Hoping the Clears mellow a bit with break in though.  For me, this pairing might be just a bit too much of a good thing when it comes to detail and transparency.  Wondering if the Empyreans/Utopias might not be a bit better in regard to musicality.

The OG Clears are super-easy to drive - no issues with the MHA200 at all.

I think we're going to start to see a consensus develop regarding the MHA200 around it's essential transparency and beautiful midrange, two characteristics that come through with all headphones to some degree or another. 

At the end of the day, the MHA200 doesn't change the equation that you should ALWAYS choose headphones first, as transducers trump tubes and transistors every time when it comes to their impact on the sound of a given recording.


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## Nostoi

Nice. If anyone gets a chance to hear how this pairs with ZMF VC, I'd love to hear.


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## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> Nice. If anyone gets a chance to hear how this pairs with ZMF VC, I'd love to hear.


I am thinking the same thing.  I want to upgrade from my Bottlehead crack.    I want to know which sounds better.    This amp.   ZMF Pendant SE or Primaluna Evo 100.


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## Crowbar44

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am thinking the same thing.  I want to upgrade from my Bottlehead crack.    I want to know which sounds better.    This amp.   ZMF Pendant SE or Primaluna Evo 100.


Well...the MHA-200 isn't an OTL - which makes it more versatile IMO than Bottlehead/Feliks etc. This will drive a wider variety of cans - but if you've only got one set of cans it may not matter.


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## HiFiHawaii808

Crowbar44 said:


> Well...the MHA-200 isn't an OTL - which makes it more versatile IMO than Bottlehead/Feliks etc. This will drive a wider variety of cans - but if you've only got one set of cans it may not matter.


I know that which is why I want to upgrade.   I would love to see a shoot out between the Macintosh MHA200, the ZMF Pendant SE and the Primaluna Evo 100.   They are all in the same price bracket and have transformers on the output with multiple output impedances for low and high impedance headphones.


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## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am thinking the same thing.  I want to upgrade from my Bottlehead crack.    I want to know which sounds better.    This amp.   ZMF Pendant SE or Primaluna Evo 100.


Yep I'm deciding between this or the Pedant SE. I need to wait for the hype on this to level off and more impressions to come in before making a choice.


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## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> Yep I'm deciding between this or the Pedant SE. I need to wait for the hype on this to level off and more impressions to come in before making a choice.


Maybe they will all be present at CanJam Socal?


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## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Maybe they will all be present at CanJam Socal?


Possibly. I'm in Vienna where there's actually a pretty large number of shops that stock Mcintosh amps, so probably I can demo soon.


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## Crowbar44 (May 6, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> Yep I'm deciding between this or the Pedant SE. I need to wait for the hype on this to level off and more impressions to come in before making a choice.


So I listened to the MHA-200 for about an hour this morning as well.  I've heard the Feliks Euphoria in the past - but my recollection fades...

One thing I feel confident in saying is that the MHA-200 doesn't sound like a super warm, gooey tube amp with the rolled highs, flabby bass, and lucious midrange typically associated with such.  It's really accurate, musical...and fast.  The bass goes way down and is pretty tight, the highs aren't rolled per say, but the sharp edges are moderated nicely.  I'm quite pleased with it and it's a nice upgrade for me.  I'm going to listen with the Sennheiser's tonight.

One issue I'm running into is that McIntosh recommends keeping the MHA's volume knob at unity (12:00) if the upstream source has a volume pot (like my setup does...I'm essentially using my Asgard 3 MB as a DAC/Pre-amp), and then using the volume pot on the upstream component.  When I do this I can't get the volume I need with my setup - but when I do the opposite of what McIntosh recommends (i.e. keep the Schiit at unity and use the MHA-200's volume control) then I can get ear bleeding levels of volume...


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## Nostoi

Crowbar44 said:


> So I listened to the MHA-200 for about an hour this morning as well.  I've heard the Feliks Euphoria in the past - but my recollection fades...
> 
> One thing I feel confident in saying is that the MHA-200 doesn't sound like a super warm, gooey tube amp with the rolled highs typically associated with such.  It's really accurate, musical...and fast.  I'm quite pleased with it and it's a nice upgrade for me.  I'm going to listen with the Sennheiser's tonight.
> 
> One issue I'm running into is that McIntosh recommends keeping the MHA's volume knob at unity (12:00) if the upstream source has a volume pot (like my setup does...I'm essentially using my Asgard 3 MB as a DAC/Pre-amp), and then using the volume pot on the upstream component.  When I do this I can't get the volume I need with my setup - but when I do the opposite of what McIntosh recommends (i.e. keep the Schiit at unity and use the MHA-200's volume control) then I can get ear bleeding levels of volume...


Ok, thanks. That's interesting and good to know it's accurate and fast rather than overly warm (which I'm not a fan of). 

What's the reason for keeping the MHA volume knob at 12 - to avoid potential clipping/distortion?


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## HiFiHawaii808

Nostoi said:


> Possibly. I'm in Vienna where there's actually a pretty large number of shops that stock Mcintosh amps, so probably I can demo soon.


Last month, I paired my VC with a Primaluna Evo 400 and it was the best I've ever heard them.    This is why I want to get the Primaluna Evo 100 in the mix to see how they all compare.


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## Nostoi

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Last month, I paired my VC with a Primaluna Evo 400 and it was the best I've ever heard them.    This is why I want to get the Primaluna Evo 100 in the mix to see how they all compare.


Looks like a beautiful amp. Sadly, the footprint is too big for me - I need something compact, which is why it's a shootout between MHA200 vs. Pendant.


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## Crowbar44

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I know that which is why I want to upgrade.   I would love to see a shoot out between the Macintosh MHA200, the ZMF Pendant SE and the Primaluna Evo 100.   They are all in the same price bracket and have transformers on the output with multiple output impedances for low and high impedance headphones.


I agree...all the amps you listed live in the same space as the MHA-200 and a shootout would be fantastic - and helpful.

I reached out to Headfonia to see if they were interested in reviewing the MHA-200...and they said they weren't.  Traditionally McIntosh never sent their gear out for review and relied on their dealer network exclusively to drive sales.  They're better nowadays and you'll see some of their gear reviewed in Stereophile or TAS...but I don't know that they've gotten on board with the newer gen of internet-only reviewers...I worry we may not see "official" reviews for a while, and suspect this thread may be the primary source for impressions for a large proportion of buyers...


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## jonathan c

Crowbar44 said:


> I agree...all the amps you listed live in the same space as the MHA-200 and a shootout would be fantastic - and helpful.
> 
> I reached out to Headfonia to see if they were interested in reviewing the MHA-200...and they said they weren't.  Traditionally McIntosh never sent their gear out for review and relied on their dealer network exclusively to drive sales.  They're better nowadays and you'll see some of their gear reviewed in Stereophile or TAS...but I don't know that they've gotten on board with the newer gen of internet-only reviewers...I worry we may not see "official" reviews for a while, and suspect this thread may be the primary source for impressions for a large proportion of buyers...


What is worrisome about that? If “impressions” lead to audition then to purchase, ☑️. If one buys without an audition, _caveat emptor._


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## Crowbar44

jonathan c said:


> What is worrisome about that? If “impressions” lead to audition then to purchase, ☑️. If one buys without an audition, _caveat emptor._


 You mean like I did - buying without reviews, impressions, or even a demo!  Agree it, could have been an expensive mistake  - glad it wasn't...


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## HiFiHawaii808

Crowbar44 said:


> You mean like I did - buying without reviews, impressions, or even a demo!  Agree it, could have been an expensive mistake  - glad it wasn't...


Well, it makes for a fantastic avatar.    The Macintosh is a beautiful amp.


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## Crowbar44

Nostoi said:


> Ok, thanks. That's interesting and good to know it's accurate and fast rather than overly warm (which I'm not a fan of).
> 
> What's the reason for keeping the MHA volume knob at 12 - to avoid potential clipping/distortion?


I *think* that unity (12:00) takes the pot out of the signal path on the MHA-200 - there's even a detent at 12:00 that you can feel when turning.


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## warrenpchi

Crowbar44 said:


> The bass performance was excellent...example:
> 1) On Amber Rubarth's "Sessions from the 17th Ward" "Strive" has some incredibly punchy percussion, the transients were amazing.  The soundstage on this Chesky recording is also outstanding, it was amazing on the MHA-200...much wider and open than the Asgard 3.
> 2) Billie Eilish "Bad Guy"...wow...just wow, no breakup, seemed to reach much deeper than the Asgard 3
> 
> ...



Added to index... and now I need to go listen to those tracks! 



HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I am thinking the same thing.  I want to upgrade from my Bottlehead crack.    I want to know which sounds better.    This amp.   ZMF Pendant SE or Primaluna Evo 100.





Nostoi said:


> Yep I'm deciding between this or the Pedant SE. I need to wait for the hype on this to level off and more impressions to come in before making a choice.



As luck would have it, I remember seeing quite a few Pendants for sale in the Classifieds last week.  There might be a good deal, or two, to be found there?



HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Maybe they will all be present at CanJam Socal?



Even if they are not, I'm sure @TSAVJason would be. 



Crowbar44 said:


> So I listened to the MHA-200 for about an hour this morning as well.  I've heard the Feliks Euphoria in the past - but my recollection fades...
> 
> One thing I feel confident in saying is that the MHA-200 doesn't sound like a super warm, gooey tube amp with the rolled highs, flabby bass, and lucious midrange typically associated with such.  It's really accurate, musical...and fast.  The bass goes way down and is pretty tight, the highs aren't rolled per say, but the sharp edges a moderated nicely.  I'm quite pleased with it and it's a nice upgrade for me.  I'm going to listen with the Sennheiser's tonight.



Yes, I think I know exactly what you mean, and I agree!  For me, it's not so much that it doesn't sound like a tube amp, more like it doesn't sound like a stereotypical tube amp.  I'll need some time to fully coalesce my feelings on this, but I'm not going to do that right at this moment because I'm just having too much damn fun right now.



Crowbar44 said:


> One issue I'm running into is that McIntosh recommends keeping the MHA's volume knob at unity (12:00) if the upstream source has a volume pot (like my setup does...I'm essentially using my Asgard 3 MB as a DAC/Pre-amp), and then using the volume pot on the upstream component.  When I do this I can't get the volume I need with my setup - but when I do the opposite of what McIntosh recommends (i.e. keep the Schiit at unity and use the MHA-200's volume control) then I can get ear bleeding levels of volume...





Crowbar44 said:


> I *think* that unity (12:00) takes the pot out of the signal path on the MHA-200 - there's even a detent at 12:00 that you can feel when turning.



Yes, but like you, their recommendation still feels ass backwards to me from how I normally set up my sources/amps (fixed > attenuation).  I suppose it's possible that swinging one way or another engages two (or more) completely separate pots, and would love to know more about why McIntosh recommends this.


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## warrenpchi

Okay, the 30-minute auto off feature is starting to irritate me a little bit.


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## Nostoi

warrenpchi said:


> Okay, the 30-minute auto off feature is starting to irritate me a little bit.


What feature is this? When there's no output?


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## carboncopy

Nostoi said:


> What feature is this? When there's no output?


Rahter no input signal I guess. Then after 30 min auto-shutdown


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## TSAVJason (May 6, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> What feature is this? When there's no output?


When there is no audio passing into the unit it will shut off in 30 minutes. You can bypass this Horrible but required by law feature by applying 12 volts to the control input on the back


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## TSAVJason

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Last month, I paired my VC with a Primaluna Evo 400 and it was the best I've ever heard them.    This is why I want to get the Primaluna Evo 100 in the mix to see how they all compare.


You guys need to do that comparison for yourselves. I don’t sell primaluna so I can’t comment here on Headfi. I’m happy to comment if you call us.


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## Crowbar44

TSAVJason said:


> You guys need to do that comparison for yourselves. I don’t sell primaluna so I can’t comment here on Headfi. I’m happy to comment if you call us.


Jason…thanks for all the info…you’ve been fantastic!  Any info on where we might be seeing “professional” reviews on the MHA-200?  I truly think this amp is a game changer…to my ears… it is in the top tier.  Would love to see this amp getting is due in the wider press.


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## TSAVJason

Crowbar44 said:


> Jason…thanks for all the info…you’ve been fantastic!  Any info on where we might be seeing “professional” reviews on the MHA-200?  I truly think this amp is a game changer…to my ears… it is in the top tier.  Would love to see this amp getting is due in the wider press.



I’m sure McIntosh already has reviewer commitments set up. McIntosh, like almost all manufacturers are having supply chain issues ..... so the didn’t do any reviewer units as far as I’m aware. I could be wrong ...... so I’d expect to see extensive in depth reviews coming soon. Warren’s got one at home with him now. My bet is you’ll get some great information from his impressions


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (May 7, 2021)

Postive Feedback review is up:

https://positive-feedback.com/revie...rOTcIlC8t9FVi0dNbv_kr6pf-syzl1NS0HgwtbxGaZzbk


----------



## TSAVJason

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Postive Feedback review is up:
> 
> https://positive-feedback.com/revie...rOTcIlC8t9FVi0dNbv_kr6pf-syzl1NS0HgwtbxGaZzbk


😂😂😂 they even gave me credit for supplying the review unit! 👊🏻


----------



## elctrokrdiogrm

Any impressions with the Arya?


----------



## qboogie

TSAVJason said:


> 😂😂😂 they even gave me credit for supplying the review unit! 👊🏻


It's a rather effusive review. I'd like to know how the Abyss 1266 sounds with this.


----------



## Crowbar44 (May 7, 2021)

Warren and Jason...great video:


m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Postive Feedback review is up:
> 
> https://positive-feedback.com/revie...rOTcIlC8t9FVi0dNbv_kr6pf-syzl1NS0HgwtbxGaZzbk


Well...that certainly was a rave!  Though I've got less experience than aforementioned reviewer, I can't really argue with any of his conclusions.  To my ears, this amp is the best I've ever heard as well.  Frankly I'm sure my LCD-2f's are probably holding me back on the true capabilities of this amp.  I'm eagerly anticipating my OG Clears arriving this month - suspect they'll sound great with the MHA200.

I'm glad he mentioned this nonsense with keeping the MHA200 at unity when using a source with a volume control.  It didn't work for me either...but keeping the source at unity and using the amp for volume control works great.  What I really need is for my Bifrost 2 to finally ship - then the issue will be moot!

I've also got to agree that the volume control does feel a bit cheap and janky on the MHA200...but I can live with it.

Hoping to see more reviews soon.


----------



## TSAVJason

qboogie said:


> It's a rather effusive review. I'd like to know how the Abyss 1266 sounds with this.


I only spent a few minutes with the 1266.   My best answer is the MHA200 seemed to make the 1266 sound bigger in its sound stage with improved definition over most amps I’ve head the 1266 on. Of course I’ve heard the 1266 on more expensive amps that performed very well also.


----------



## Nostoi

Crowbar44 said:


> Warren and Jason...great video:
> 
> Well...that certainly was a rave!  Though I've got less experience that aforementioned reviewer, I can't really argue with any of his conclusions.  To my ears, this amp is the best I've ever heard as well.  Frankly I'm sure my LCD-2f's are probably holding me back on the true capabilities of this amp.  I'm eagerly anticipating my OG Clears arriving this month - suspect they'll sound great with the MHA200.
> 
> ...


Would you mind expanding on the amp's cheap feeling volume control? Does it have a good resistance? Any other users having similar experience?


----------



## TSAVJason

Nostoi said:


> Would you mind expanding on the amp's cheap feeling volume control? Does it have a good resistance? Any other users having similar experience?


It’s plastic and light to the touch. But all McIntosh amps and preamps use plastic knobs. To be fair, it is cheap to use plastic but not concerning (at least not  to me). It has typical resistance so it doesn’t feel wrong. I think it’s just the knob and impedance selector are very small and made of plastic I can understand someone using the word “janky or cheap” while the rest of the amp is built like a tank


----------



## Crowbar44

Nostoi said:


> Would you mind expanding on the amp's cheap feeling volume control? Does it have a good resistance? Any other users having similar experience?


Ok...I'm probably being a touch picky on this - perhaps "janky" was too strong a word  .  The control is fine, and feels the same as my Schiit knobs - it's just that the rest of the amp exudes such a high quality vibe that the knob being just standard is a contrast.


----------



## warrenpchi

TSAVJason said:


> I’m sure McIntosh already has reviewer commitments set up. McIntosh, like almost all manufacturers are having supply chain issues ..... so the didn’t do any reviewer units as far as I’m aware. I could be wrong ...... so I’d expect to see extensive in depth reviews coming soon. Warren’s got one at home with him now. My bet is you’ll get some great information from his impressions



I'm now in that stage of the review where my Head-Fier sensibilities have kicked in, and I'm being candid and critical of the amp.  It won't be out this week, but the final review is coming soon.


----------



## TSAVJason

Crowbar44 said:


> Ok...I'm probably being a touch picky on this - perhaps "janky" was too strong a word  .  The control is fine, and feels the same as my Schiit knobs - it's just that the rest of the amp exudes such a high quality vibe that the knob being just standard is a contrast.


No worries 😂 .....  it’s fair


----------



## Pastwa

Just when you think that Mcintosh possibly covered every single detail, then you find out they decided to use some octal AC socket instead of the most common IEC, why make it more difficult for people that already have a very decent IEC power cable?  I have instantly lost most of my initial interest.


----------



## jonathan c

Pastwa said:


> Just when you think that Mcintosh possibly covered every single detail, then you find out they decided to use some octal AC socket instead of the most common IEC, why make it more difficult for people that already have a very decent IEC power cable?  I have instantly lost most of my initial interest.


I agree with you. In a post some time ago, I complained about the McIntosh socket/cord. “So much for using upgrade aftermarket power cords...”


----------



## TSAVJason

Pastwa said:


> Just when you think that Mcintosh possibly covered every single detail, then you find out they decided to use some octal AC socket instead of the most common IEC, why make it more difficult for people that already have a very decent IEC power cable?  I have instantly lost most of my initial interest.



what should they have done? Increase the size of the unit to make the real estate available for an IEC? FYI, there are upgrade power cables in the octal configuration


----------



## Pastwa

TSAVJason said:


> what should they have done? Increase the size of the unit to make the real estate available for an IEC? FYI, there are upgrade power cables in the octal configuration


I presume it wouldn't make it twice as big (vide used in the review HP4 and many more compact amplifiers). 

I got a very good IEC power cable I spent circa 1000$, so the suggestion to buy another one makes the MHA200 not so much attractive deal anymore (for me).


----------



## Crowbar44

Pastwa said:


> Just when you think that Mcintosh possibly covered every single detail, then you find out they decided to use some octal AC socket instead of the most common IEC, why make it more difficult for people that already have a very decent IEC power cable?  I have instantly lost most of my initial interest.


Well different strokes and all...but the power cord doesn't bother me at all...I assume McIntosh engineered the thing right, it sounds fantastic, the only thing I can think of is issues with perceived as opposed to actual quality...


----------



## carboncopy

Pastwa said:


> I presume it wouldn't make it twice as big (vide used in the review HP4 and many more compact amplifiers).
> 
> I got a very good IEC power cable I spent circa 1000$, so the suggestion to buy another one makes the MHA200 not so much attractive deal anymore (for me).


Or you can use something like this…

https://shunyata.com/products/power-cables/venom-line-power-cables/venom-v14-mini-power-adapters/

I have one with a Venom power cord for my Tor Audio Balanced which has the same connector as the MHA200.


----------



## TSAVJason

TSAVJason said:


> It’s plastic and light to the touch. But all McIntosh amps and preamps use plastic knobs. To be fair, it is cheap to use plastic but not concerning (at least not  to me). It has typical resistance so it doesn’t feel wrong. I think it’s just the knob and impedance selector are very small and made of plastic I can understand someone using the word “janky or cheap” while the rest of the amp is built like a tank


----------



## TSAVJason

My bad! I took a closer look. Those knobs are aluminum and are also used on other units as EQ controls


----------



## warrenpchi

warrenpchi said:


> Okay, the 30-minute auto off feature is starting to irritate me a little bit.





TSAVJason said:


> When there is no audio passing into the unit it will shut off in 30 minutes. You can bypass this Horrible but required by law feature by applying 12 volts to the control input on the back



Okay, I'm a little happier now.  

I was just on the phone with @TSAVJason about something completely separate.  He's been reaching out to his old friend John Hinkle at McIntosh about the MHA200, and just passed on a great tip!  Turns out, there's a way to disable the auto-off feature.

*Turning off the auto-off:  *

With the MHA200 already on, hold down the power (standby) button for ~5 seconds.
The tubes' green LEDs will go off and go back on three times to confirm that auto-off is now disabled.
This setting will be retained through power cycles, until you turn the auto-off back on.
*Turning the auto-off back on (why???):  *

Again, with the MHA200 already on, hold down the power (standby) button for ~5 seconds.
The tubes' green LEDs will go off and go back on two times to confirm that auto-off is again enabled.
Likewise, this setting will be retained through power cycles, until you change it.
I've verified the procedure with my MHA200 here.  @Crowbar44, can you test this as well when you get a chance?  Thanks!

It's a good thing that this feature in included, because I was starting to read threads like this:  https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...ower-amp-5v-with-a-non-mac-preamp-12v.803289/ 🤣


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (May 7, 2021)

can't wait to hear this little guy. Stay tuned for unboxing/overview/review video on my YT channel.


----------



## TSAVJason

HiFiGuy528 said:


> can't wait to hear this little guy. Stay tuned for unboxing/overview/review video on my YT channel.



you do remember calling me and asking me to get one for you a few months back .....or were you hallucinating? 😂


----------



## warrenpchi

HiFiGuy528 said:


> can't wait to hear this little guy.



I knew you wouldn't be able to resist this!


----------



## TSAVJason

warrenpchi said:


> I knew you wouldn't be able to resist this!


He’s not just a Sony fan boy 😂😂😂


----------



## qboogie

TSAVJason said:


> I only spent a few minutes with the 1266.   My best answer is the MHA200 seemed to make the 1266 sound bigger in its sound stage with improved definition over most amps I’ve head the 1266 on. Of course I’ve heard the 1266 on more expensive amps that performed very well also.


Would you say it drives the Abyss with authority, especially the bass? In the video, it seems like the MHA200 was good with the HEDDphone but speculated that it wouldn't be synergistic with the Susvara.


----------



## TSAVJason

qboogie said:


> Would you say it drives the Abyss with authority, especially the bass? In the video, it seems like the MHA200 was good with the HEDDphone but speculated that it wouldn't be synergistic with the Susvara.


I can’t respond to this. We are not a HiFiMAN dealer any longer


----------



## warrenpchi

TSAVJason said:


> He’s not just a Sony fan boy 😂😂😂



Lol, nope, but I'll bet A Sony is gonna be in the signal chain somewhere!


----------



## Crowbar44

warrenpchi said:


> Okay, I'm a little happier now.
> 
> I was just on the phone with @TSAVJason about something completely separate.  He's been reaching out to his old friend John Hinkle at McIntosh about the MHA200, and just passed on a great tip!  Turns out, there's a way to disable the auto-off feature.
> 
> ...


Yup...I can confirm that the procedure to turn off the auto-off works....

However...I'm turning it back on   ... gotta save those tubes!


----------



## Crowbar44

For those who haven't seen it - here's a direct link to Jason and Warren's video review:


----------



## TSAVJason

Crowbar44 said:


> Yup...I can confirm that the procedure to turn off the auto-off works....
> 
> However...I'm turning it back on   ... gotta save those tubes!


Tubes don’t have an exact life expectancy for sure. But generally McIntosh products even when used hours a day should give you at minimum a 3-4 years of tube life before it’s tube death or performance reduction and can last up to 2 -3 times that. I don’t think you should worry too much about tube life on your MHA200...... enjoy!


----------



## warrenpchi

Crowbar44 said:


> Yup...I can confirm that the procedure to turn off the auto-off works....



Thank you sir! 



Crowbar44 said:


> However...I'm turning it back on   ... gotta save those tubes!



Oh, stop pretending you're not gonna try rolling tubes soon!


----------



## TSAVJason

warrenpchi said:


> Thank you sir!
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, stop pretending you're not gonna try rolling tubes soon!


I am ..... tomorrow 👍🏻👊🏻


----------



## warrenpchi




----------



## TSAVJason

warrenpchi said:


>


Yup but I gotta give it a try


----------



## warrenpchi

TSAVJason said:


> Yup but I gotta give it a try



Lol, I know.   

Though, for anybody that's curious, I'd like to point out that the stock tubes are very, very good in and of themselves.  I'll get around to tube rolling some day, but I don't feel like it's lacking in any way as-is.


----------



## Crowbar44

warrenpchi said:


> Thank you sir!
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, stop pretending you're not gonna try rolling tubes soon!


Lord help me...if I keep hanging out here on Head-Fi with you...I probably will


----------



## TSAVJason

warrenpchi said:


> Lol, I know.
> 
> Though, for anybody that's curious, I'd like to point out that the stock tubes are very, very good in and of themselves.  I'll get around to tube rolling some day, but I don't feel like it's lacking in any way as-is.


No doubt 👊🏻 There is no good reason other than I’m flipp’n curious 😂😂😂


----------



## TSAVJason

Crowbar44 said:


> Lord help me...if I keep hanging out here on Head-Fi with you...I probably will


Welcome to the Land O Warren 😂😂😂😂 he’s an instigator. I do enjoy how he draws pictures with words that (sometimes 😂) are easy to understand and relate to 👍🏻👊🏻


----------



## Crowbar44

warrenpchi said:


> Lol, I know.
> 
> Though, for anybody that's curious, I'd like to point out that the stock tubes are very, very good in and of themselves.  I'll get around to tube rolling some day, but I don't feel like it's lacking in any way as-is.


I'll second this!  I believe that the stock McIntosh tubes are built in Russia by New Sensor, and screened and selected for quality.  This is a company that has been building tube amps for over 50 years, and they're still standing with a lot of institutional knowledge.

I say this with peace and love , but tube rolling and cables aren't really my jag - though I can respect folks who go down this route.  My brother tells me repeatedly that he can't hear the difference between my ATH-M50's and LCD-2f's...I think he's crazy (or deaf), so I can respect folks who think I'm crazy for not being able to hear the difference between power cables


----------



## warrenpchi

Crowbar44 said:


> I say this with peace and love , but tube rolling and cables aren't really my jag - though I can respect folks who go down this route.  My brother tells me repeatedly that he can't hear the difference between my ATH-M50's and LCD-2f's...I think he's crazy (or deaf), so I can respect folks who think I'm crazy for not being able to hear the difference between power cables



This is the way it should be.  We hear what we hear (or not), we like what we like (or not), and that's all that should matter to each of us.  Personally, I do not buy gear for the purpose of using it as a precision tool.  I do not record/mix/master/produce music.  For me, it is very nearly 100% about the enjoyment of music (and occasionally spoken word via podcasts and such).

There are quite a few outdated things in my signature as I just haven't bothered to keep it updated.  However, one fixture that I imagine will always be there is:  "Your ears are the best measuring rig for gauging personal enjoyment. So if it sounds good, it is good."


----------



## Crowbar44

warrenpchi said:


> This is the way it should be.  We hear what we hear (or not), we like what we like (or not), and that's all that should matter to each of us.  Personally, I do not buy gear for the purpose of using it as a precision tool.  I do not record/mix/master/produce music.  For me, it is very nearly 100% about the enjoyment of music (and occasionally spoken word via podcasts and such).
> 
> There are quite a few outdated things in my signature as I just haven't bothered to keep it updated.  However, one fixture that I imagine will always be there is:  "Your ears are the best measuring rig for gauging personal enjoyment. So if it sounds good, it is good."


Warrren …


----------



## Crowbar44

Crowbar44 said:


> Warrren …well put


----------



## ThanatosVI

I asked this in the announcement thread but maybe it fits better here.

What are the tubes it gets shipped with.
They are branded McIntosh, but that is only a branding right?
And can you replace the 12BH7A with 6SN7 when using an adapter?
I know one is Noval the other Octal but electrically I heard they were identical.


----------



## Crowbar44 (May 10, 2021)

My understanding is that they are modern Russian tubes, specially selected.

Tubes are a pair of 12AT7 and 12BH7A dual triode vacuum tubes - I don't know if adaptors can be used with other tubes.


----------



## Crowbar44

I'll be adding to my original impressions post from time to time via edits, I'm really enjoying this amp with my HD660S's...


----------



## Crowbar44 (May 11, 2021)

So I've lived with the MHA200 for around a week, and I have noted some nits that I'd like to point out.  None of these nits relate to sound quality. 

I've updated my original impressions post with the information below as well:

1) On my unit, the volume pot is a tiny bit loose in the chassis...not bad, but as the pot is the only thing we touch on an amp, if the feel of the pot is not great, perceived quality suffers.  Jason Stoddard at Schiit has noted this repeatedly in his blog posts here on Head-Fi, which is why Schiit pays a lot of attention to pot performance and feel.

2) I find the volume ramp up on the pot to be VERY steep past 12:00 - to the point that I have to press my fingers against the chassis when I'm increasing volume past 12:00 to insure I don't deafen myself, in fact, the "usable" volume range on my unit is only between 12:00 and 1:30...very tight.

It seems that in designing the MHA200, McIntosh put a premium on the ability of the MHA200 to integrate into existing McIntosh systems, specifically McIntosh pre-amps.  So as the user manual states, they recommend keeping the MHA200 pot at 12:00 (it has a detent at 12:00 to help with this) and using your pre-amp volume control to control volume.  I'm using a similar setup with my Asgard 3 multibit, I'm using the pre-outs from the Asgard to feed the amp.  But I find I don't get enough volume with the amp volume pot at 12:00 and using the Asgard's volume pot.  So I'm just keeping the Asgard pot at 12:00 and using the MHA200 to adjust volume...but as I said above, with this setup the "usable" volume is only between 12:00 at 1:30..which makes volume adjustment touchy.

Maybe things will be better once my Bifrost 2 arrives, perhaps the setup using the Asgard 3 as a pre-amp/DAC isn't ideal with the MHA200.  Would appreciate input from Warren or other owners if they have similar issues.

The thing still sounds fantastic though...still glad I bought it...


----------



## Nostoi

Crowbar44 said:


> So I've lived with the MHA200 for around a week, and I have noted some nits that I'd like to point out.  None of these nits relate to sound quality.
> 
> I've updated my original impressions post with the information below as well:
> 
> ...


This is all very helpful info to know in advance. 

Probably I will pass on the MHA200. One of the things I love about my current SS amp - the Sparkos Labs Aries - is not only the beautiful feel of the volume knob, but also it's 64 step reed relay attenuator, which is a pleasure to use - it's precise and smooth. I've gotten use to that and moving to something where there's a sudden leap from 12:00 to 13:00 sounds a challenge, especially with IEMs.

I also don't really understand the design policy of volume knob here. I'm not aware of any other amp that is designed in this way, such that one controls the volume with a pre-amp. Why did they not just make it as a pure power amplifier, and do away with the volume knob altogether? I'm asking this question as someone who isn't familiar with the McIntosh eco-system, so there might a good reason I'm not aware of. 

In any case, if I see it locally, I remain keen to demo it, but otherwise not for me, alas.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Crowbar44 said:


> So I've lived with the MHA200 for around a week, and I have noted some nits that I'd like to point out.  None of these nits relate to sound quality.
> 
> I've updated my original impressions post with the information below as well:
> 
> ...


What is the output voltage of the Asgard3 on the preamp output?

I personally really like this feature of the MHA200, since my preamp has a remote and relay volume control. Therefore I am happy to know that I can easily use it without overloading the input.

The MHA can take up to 8V in the RCA. (Line level Standard is 2V)


----------



## Crowbar44

ThanatosVI said:


> What is the output voltage of the Asgard3 on the preamp output?
> 
> I personally really like this feature of the MHA200, since my preamp has a remote and relay volume control. Therefore I am happy to know that I can easily use it without overloading the input.
> 
> The MHA can take up to 8V in the RCA. (Line level Standard is 2V)


I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it's 2V...but Schiit doesn't have anything listed in the manual or on the website...I was thinking that a low output voltage could have been the problem as well...I thought most desktop DACs output 3V via RCA...I know the Asgard is considered "low output" by some...


----------



## Crowbar44

Nostoi said:


> This is all very helpful info to know in advance.
> 
> Probably I will pass on the MHA200. One of the things I love about my current SS amp - the Sparkos Labs Aries - is not only the beautiful feel of the volume knob, but also it's 64 step reed relay attenuator, which is a pleasure to use - it's precise and smooth. I've gotten use to that and moving to something where there's a sudden leap from 12:00 to 13:00 sounds a challenge, especially with IEMs.
> 
> ...


I think they wanted to give users a choice of using a pre-amp or not...problem is, the design favors pre-amp users a bit too much.  My guess is that most serious headphone audiophiles use a fixed output DAC and "integrated" headphone amp - not a pre-amp.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Crowbar44 said:


> I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it's 2V...but Schiit doesn't have anything listed in the manual or on the website...I was thinking that a low output voltage could have been the problem as well...I thought most desktop DACs output 3V via RCA...I know the Asgard is considered "low output" by some...


2V is Standard line out.
3V is often found in more modern DACs
However you always have to watch out if your amp can take more than the Standard.

Pre Amps often cap between 8-10V on their respective pre amp out.



Crowbar44 said:


> I think they wanted to give users a choice of using a pre-amp or not...problem is, the design favors pre-amp users a bit too much.  My guess is that most serious headphone audiophiles use a fixed output DAC and "integrated" headphone amp - not a pre-amp.


While I personally wish that more manufacturers would implement something like it, I agree that the great majority uses line level DAC out into "integrated" Headphone amps.


----------



## warrenpchi

Nostoi said:


> I've gotten use to that and moving to something where there's a sudden leap from 12:00 to 13:00 sounds a challenge, especially with IEMs.



Oh trust me, you'd never use unity gain (much less anything above that) for IEMs lol.    You'd be trying to fine tune between 10:00p and 11:30p, depending on sensitivity.



Crowbar44 said:


> My guess is that most serious headphone audiophiles use a fixed output DAC and "integrated" headphone amp - not a pre-amp.



That is exactly how I run my rigs.


----------



## kahkityoong

Very interested to see how this matches with the Utopia. I’ve held off pulling the trigger on a Niimbus till this was released.


----------



## Crowbar44

kahkityoong said:


> Very interested to see how this matches with the Utopia. I’ve held off pulling the trigger on a Niimbus till this was released.


I bought a set of Clears specifically for this amp (shipping next week)...I suspect the paring of higher end Focals and the MHA200 will result in a resolution monster. I know that many like to plan their systems so that the weakness of one component is mitigated by another (i.e. a "warm" tube amp paired with a set of treble forward cans, etc.).  I tend to like the opposite, i.e. pairing components with similar strengths...


----------



## warrenpchi

Crowbar44 said:


> I know that many like to plan their systems so that the weakness of one component is mitigated by another (i.e. a "warm" tube amp paired with a set of treble forward cans, etc.).



I hope nobody out there is buying this for tubey warmth and badonkadonk... because as we know @Crowbar44, that is simply not the case here.


----------



## Crowbar44

warrenpchi said:


> I hope nobody out there is buying this for tubey warmth and badonkadonk... because as we know @Crowbar44, that is simply not the case here.


Agreed Warren...absolutely true  I was referring to the pairing of the Clears with the MHA200 detailed, fast amp + detailed fast cans


----------



## kahkityoong

Crowbar44 said:


> I bought a set of Clears specifically for this amp (shipping next week)...I suspect the paring of higher end Focals and the MHA200 will result in a resolution monster. I know that many like to plan their systems so that the weakness of one component is mitigated by another (i.e. a "warm" tube amp paired with a set of treble forward cans, etc.).  I tend to like the opposite, i.e. pairing components with similar strengths...


I’ve never owned a tube amp so I’m particularly keen on dipping my toes. Also had my eye on Woo WA33 but its size is probably impractical for my use.


----------



## ThanatosVI

kahkityoong said:


> I’ve never owned a tube amp so I’m particularly keen on dipping my toes. Also had my eye on Woo WA33 but its size is probably impractical for my use.


Be careful,  after a tube amp, there is no going back


----------



## Crowbar44

kahkityoong said:


> I’ve never owned a tube amp so I’m particularly keen on dipping my toes. Also had my eye on Woo WA33 but its size is probably impractical for my use.


The Woo amp looks really nice - it has transformers, so would an appropriate comparison with the MHA200...but boy the price!  I thought the MHA200 was a bit ridiculous...


----------



## ThanatosVI

Crowbar44 said:


> The Woo amp looks really nice - it has transformers, so would an appropriate comparison with the MHA200...but boy the price!  I thought the MHA200 was a bit ridiculous...


Yeah the Wa33 is another price League, it doubles again for the Elite Edition. 

The Wa22 is in the same price category as the McIntosh MHA200 and more of a fair comparison.

I guess the Wa22 will have more warmth and ooey gooey sound. 
While the McIntosh will have more clarity, detail and extension


----------



## warrenpchi

Crowbar44 said:


> Agreed Warren...absolutely true  I was referring to the pairing of the Clears with the MHA200 detailed, fast amp + detailed fast cans



I'll elaborate further in my review, but running the MHA200 through a variety of headphones here, I think you made the right choice.

The MHA200 is balanced and transparent enough that it's going to reveal and synergize with the sonic nature of other gear in your signal chain... and by that I mean - if one is intending to use the MHA200 as a hardware EQ of sorts, or a tonal correction device - no, that's not gonna work.  The MHA200 is simply too transparent.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y (May 13, 2021)

Unboxing video by Mike of Hi-Fi Insider


----------



## ThanatosVI

According to McIntosh Support the 12BH7A run probably at 12.6V.

That means better don't try 6SN7 tubes with Adapter but rather take 12SN7


----------



## Nostoi

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Unboxing video by Mike of Hi-Fi Insider



Nice to see the dimensions in relation to the hand. The compactness is so appealing.


----------



## Crowbar44

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Unboxing video by Mike of Hi-Fi Insider



That tube cage needs to come off pronto!

This really is a desktop amp, the desktop footprint is virtually identical to my Asgard 3 - just rotated 90 degrees.


----------



## Crowbar44

warrenpchi said:


> I'll elaborate further in my review, but running the MHA200 through a variety of headphones here, I think you made the right choice.
> 
> The MHA200 is balanced and transparent enough that it's going to reveal and synergize with the sonic nature of other gear in your signal chain... and by that I mean - if one is intending to use the MHA200 as a hardware EQ of sorts, or a tonal correction device - no, that's not gonna work.  The MHA200 is simply too transparent.


So we're all waiting for that review Warren ...you're being far more meticulous than I was.


----------



## meomap

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Unboxing video by Mike of Hi-Fi Insider



OMG, that thing is so small.


----------



## gonzalo05

Questions for the owners, does your unit make a static sound for the right channel? I had mone for a week now and sometimes the right channel has static. This is my very right tube amp so I have no idea if it's normal. Thanks.


----------



## Bassic Needs

Does this unit put off a lot of heat?
Is there a way to turn off the green lights?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Gives me the idea what accessory will fit....


----------



## warrenpchi

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Unboxing video by Mike of Hi-Fi Insider



Coincidence, but Mike and I just spent a few hours on the phone today catching up, and talking about the amp of course.   



Crowbar44 said:


> So we're all waiting for that review Warren ...you're being far more meticulous than I was.



🤣



gonzalo05 said:


> Questions for the owners, does your unit make a static sound for the right channel? I had mone for a week now and sometimes the right channel has static. This is my very right tube amp so I have no idea if it's normal. Thanks.



No, that is not normal at all, and is an issue.  Contact your dealer right away to have it resolved (repair/replacement). 



Bassic Needs said:


> Does this unit put off a lot of heat?
> Is there a way to turn off the green lights?



Nope.  It does generate some heat of course, but I would not say that it's particularly warm at all.  I've owned solid state DACs that run hotter than this.

And sadly, no.  To the best of my knowledge, there is no way to turn off the green lights short of turning off the amp.


----------



## Crowbar44

gonzalo05 said:


> Questions for the owners, does your unit make a static sound for the right channel? I had mone for a week now and sometimes the right channel has static. This is my very right tube amp so I have no idea if it's normal. Thanks.


Agree with Warren - this is absolutely not normal, contact your dealer, bring it in and show him.  Does it happen with all your headphones?


----------



## gonzalo05

Crowbar44 said:


> Agree with Warren - this is absolutely not normal, contact your dealer, bring it in and show him.  Does it happen with all your headphones?


Thanks for the response.I have only been using with my Utopia's using a 4 pin xlr cable. I will be using different headphones to see if the problem is still present.


----------



## Crowbar44

gonzalo05 said:


> Thanks for the response.I have only been using with my Utopia's using a 4 pin xlr cable. I will be using different headphones to see if the problem is still present.


You may want to switch to the TRS cable on the Utopias as well to try and trouble shoot, could be the cable, could be the Utopias, could be the amp.  I'd try re-plugging in the balanced cable as well - it just may not be perfectly seated.


----------



## hikaru12

Crowbar44 said:


> You may want to switch to the TRS cable on the Utopias as well to try and trouble shoot, could be the cable, could be the Utopias, could be the amp.  I'd try re-plugging in the balanced cable as well - it just may not be perfectly seated.



Could be the tubes as well.

I'm following this thread with some interest as people are getting in their Pendants. Hoping to hear back soon but I'm leaning towards the Pendant as it has a more aggressive tonality. I personally like lots of bass so while a super transparent amp is nice it would be nice to boost that whilst also being able to reuse some of my 6SN7 tubes off my Crack. I personally like the looks of the Mcintosh more than the Pendant though.


----------



## Roasty

I am imagining this amp on my bedside table.. 

Anxiously awaiting any reports of pairing this amp with the Utopia.


----------



## khrist

Roasty said:


> I am imagining this amp on my bedside table..
> 
> Anxiously awaiting any reports of pairing this amp with the Utopia.



I've been running the MHA200 with the Focal Radiance and Elear for about a week now and I think this would be an amazing fit with the Utopia. Music preference wise I listen primarily to electronic based music (Progressive House, Trance) and the Beryllium drivers of the Utopia/Stellia typically sounded a little too metallic in the upper regions for me. However with that being said, Crowbar hit the nail on the head while the highs are NOT rolled off, rather the MHA200 smooths off those harsh edges which I think would be awesome for the Utopia.


----------



## Crowbar44

khrist said:


> I've been running the MHA200 with the Focal Radiance and Elear for about a week now and I think this would be an amazing fit with the Utopia. Music preference wise I listen primarily to electronic based music (Progressive House, Trance) and the Beryllium drivers of the Utopia/Stellia typically sounded a little too metallic in the upper regions for me. However with that being said, Crowbar hit the nail on the head while the highs are NOT rolled off, rather the MHA200 smooths off those harsh edges which I think would be awesome for the Utopia.


Agree khrist...on my LCD-2f's, harshly recorded treble was smoothed nicely - of course the LCD-2f's have a pretty mellow treble signature already.  My OG Clears are on their way, I'll be very curious to hear how they sound with the MHA200...


----------



## warrenpchi

khrist said:


> Music preference wise I listen primarily to electronic based music (Progressive House, Trance) and the Beryllium drivers of the Utopia/Stellia typically sounded a little too metallic in the upper regions for me. However with that being said, Crowbar hit the nail on the head while the highs are NOT rolled off, rather the MHA200 smooths off those harsh edges which I think would be awesome for the Utopia.



@khrist, running though some test tracks here, I've found that the MHA200's midrange makes Møme's Wagga sound particularly organic.  Not sure if you're into Touch, but that might be a nice listen.  Meanwhile, The Crystal Method's Busy Child sounds absolutely anthemic... it's taken on a whole new life, like the song that Loops of Fury wants to be when it grows up lol.  Just for fun, I'm now listening to an absolutely ancient Essential Mix (Oakey @ Shadow Lounge, Miami) as background music to speed through some work.


----------



## Crowbar44

So my OG Clears arrived last week and I've spent some time listening to the MHA200 with them in addition to the LCD-2f and HD660S.

I've updated my original impressions post with the below as well.

I suspect that the Clears still need some more break in, but I've heard enough to say that they certainly pair well with the MHA200.

One nice feature of the MHA200 is it's ability to drive two sets of headphones simultaneously via the both the TRS and XLR outputs (I don't know whether you could drive a third set with the dual XLR outputs...but suspect you could, as all three outputs appear to be driven all the time).  Though not level matched, this feature made it pretty easy to switch between headphones quickly.  There is ZERO change to the sonic signature when you plug a second set of cans into the MHA200 (not even a click or static).  I switched between XLR and TRS cables a number of times as well, and could not detect any difference between the different outputs (I did not have any duel XLR cables, so can't comment on that output).

In terms of preference...well, I prefer the LCD-2f with the MHA200 as opposed to the OG Clears.  This is mainly because the LCD-2s allow that gorgeous midrange from the MHA200 to come though more fully.  The OG Clears are more dynamic, faster, have better bass, and are fantastic headphones.  I prefer the OG Clears with my Asgard 3, as it complements that warmer, albeit more veiled, amp.  The OG Clears are far more resolving with the MHA200 than the LCD-2fs, but with the kind of smaller, intimate, music I prefer, I found the LCD-2fs more musical.  

If you want a very fast presentation, with great, tight, deep, bass and notable highs, the OG Clears and the MHA200 are gonna be for you.  This is a great rock/pop pairing for me.  Hoping the Clears mellow a bit with break in though.  For me, this pairing might be just a bit too much of a good thing when it comes to detail and transparency.  Wondering if the Empyreans/Utopias might not be a bit better in regard to musicality.

The OG Clears are super-easy to drive - no issues with the MHA200 at all.

I think we're going to start to see a consensus develop regarding the MHA200 around it's essential transparency and beautiful midrange, two characteristics that come through with all headphones to some degree or another. 

At the end of the day, the MHA200 doesn't change the equation that you should ALWAYS choose headphones first, as transducers trump tubes and transistors every time when it comes to their impact on the sound of a given recording.


----------



## doggiemom

Order has been places for the MHA200, so hopefully should have it later this week and some impressions soon after.


----------



## Crowbar44 (May 23, 2021)

doggiemom said:


> Order has been places for the MHA200, so hopefully should have it later this week and some impressions soon after.


Please post impressions...especially with a variety of headphones...my take is that this amp gets out of the way, and lets the character of an individual headphone come out to a huge degree...


----------



## doggiemom

Crowbar44 said:


> Please post impressions...especially with a variety of headphones...my take is that this amp gets out of the way, and lets the character of an individual headphone come out to a huge degree...


Yes, I will!  I don't think I am very good at writing impressions:  I have been very happily using my current setup for the last 4+ years, so can't really give comparisons versus more recent products.  Even before that, I considered myself a newbie/novice to audio gear and am pretty sure I don't use the correct terminology to describe things.    When I started putting together my current setup, I was fortunate to meet a knowledgable person who is active on this thread, and he asked me "Are you looking for (I don't remember what... something about specs?) or something that will make your arm hair stand on end?  Oh, but your arms aren't very hairy."    I chose the latter... I know what I like, and that is equipment that frees the music to evoke an emotional response, so admittedly I am not good at writing objective comparisons or technical descriptions.

But I will try!  I do have a variety of headphones, but other than the ORA GQs (was curious about the graphene drivers) I haven't bought any headphones for several years.  90% of my listening is on the Utopia, but I do have some others that I can revisit and report back.


----------



## asaprod

Has anyone tried it with a pair of Diana V2? Not sure if it would be powerful enough


----------



## Exer

asaprod said:


> Has anyone tried it with a pair of Diana V2? Not sure if it would be powerful enough


I can't comment on pairing with the Diana V2 specifically, but I would be shocked if it was underpowered. Abyss commented in a recent video about the power output of the Eleven Audio Formula S around 1W with the 1266, and being among their favorite amps for it.

At the matched gain setting for my Empyrean, volume becomes uncomfortably loud well before the 1pm position on my MHA200, and needs to be raised carefully. It has the authority that one expects from a top-tier tube amp, while avoiding the overly warm presentation that many tube amps succumb to. I found detail retrieval improved with the Empyreans with the stock tubes, and found the recommended tube pairing from Positive Feedback (Mullard CV4024) a bit too dark. That said, I could see the pairing work well with headphones that leaned towards sibilant.

Happy to answer questions on the amp, though admittedly my feedback is limited as I'm a one headphone person. Current setup is Lumin U1 Mini -> Hugo 2 -> MHA200 -> Meze Empyrean.


----------



## asaprod

Exer said:


> I can't comment on pairing with the Diana V2 specifically, but I would be shocked if it was underpowered. Abyss commented in a recent video about the power output of the Eleven Audio Formula S around 1W with the 1266, and being among their favorite amps for it.
> 
> At the matched gain setting for my Empyrean, volume becomes uncomfortably loud well before the 1pm position on my MHA200, and needs to be raised carefully. It has the authority that one expects from a top-tier tube amp, while avoiding the overly warm presentation that many tube amps succumb to. I found detail retrieval improved with the Empyreans with the stock tubes, and found the recommended tube pairing from Positive Feedback (Mullard CV4024) a bit too dark. That said, I could see the pairing work well with headphones that leaned towards sibilant.
> 
> Happy to answer questions on the amp, though admittedly my feedback is limited as I'm a one headphone person. Current setup is Lumin U1 Mini -> Hugo 2 -> MHA200 -> Meze Empyrean.


Thanks a lot for the reply!


----------



## Crowbar44

Exer said:


> I can't comment on pairing with the Diana V2 specifically, but I would be shocked if it was underpowered. Abyss commented in a recent video about the power output of the Eleven Audio Formula S around 1W with the 1266, and being among their favorite amps for it.
> 
> At the matched gain setting for my Empyrean, volume becomes uncomfortably loud well before the 1pm position on my MHA200, and needs to be raised carefully. It has the authority that one expects from a top-tier tube amp, while avoiding the overly warm presentation that many tube amps succumb to. I found detail retrieval improved with the Empyreans with the stock tubes, and found the recommended tube pairing from Positive Feedback (Mullard CV4024) a bit too dark. That said, I could see the pairing work well with headphones that leaned towards sibilant.
> 
> Happy to answer questions on the amp, though admittedly my feedback is limited as I'm a one headphone person. Current setup is Lumin U1 Mini -> Hugo 2 -> MHA200 -> Meze Empyrean.


So...I'm still searching for a DAC to pair with the MHA200...I have a Bifrost 2 on backorder, and am currently using the MB card on my Asgard 3...but am strongly considering jumping ship to a Chord Qutest...curious as to whether the drier DS sound of the Chord DACs pair well with the MHA200...


----------



## asaprod

Crowbar44 said:


> So...I'm still searching for a DAC to pair with the MHA200...I have a Bifrost 2 on backorder, and am currently using the MB card on my Asgard 3...but am strongly considering jumping ship to a Chord Qutest...curious as to whether the drier DS sound of the Chord DACs pair well with the MHA200...


I haven't had the chance to try this combo, but from what I heard from a couple of people, the MHA200 being very transparent and the Qutest pretty bright, this setup will give you a very resolving but also very bright sound. At least with the stock tubes. To tame it down a little, you can roll the tubes with some Mullard ones. So now it really depends on the kind or sound you like


----------



## asaprod

I actually listened to it paired with a Matrix Element i, and it was absolutely incredible. The Matrix Element i might not be the best headphone amp on the market, but it's dac/streamer is one of the best I got to hear under $2000


----------



## Garak

Exer said:


> I can't comment on pairing with the Diana V2 specifically, but I would be shocked if it was underpowered. Abyss commented in a recent video about the power output of the Eleven Audio Formula S around 1W with the 1266, and being among their favorite amps for it.



Not sure where you're getting 1W with 1266. Formula S has around 2.1 W @ 47ohm. It was also specifically built for Abyss headphones and current is what's going to matter for planars.


----------



## Exer

Crowbar44 said:


> So...I'm still searching for a DAC to pair with the MHA200...I have a Bifrost 2 on backorder, and am currently using the MB card on my Asgard 3...but am strongly considering jumping ship to a Chord Qutest...curious as to whether the drier DS sound of the Chord DACs pair well with the MHA200...


The short answer is yes. The Qutest and Hugo 2 don't add warmth or brightness, but they are great at detail retrieval. The biggest difference for me was a musical engagement that is addictive. You find yourself lost in music and tapping your toes with the Chord DACs, an experience I haven't found with others. Note that I haven't had a chance to try any of the Denafrips yet, which based on feedback appears to be a growing star. 

One great way to get a feel for how the Qutest will work in your system is to trial, borrow, or buy a Chord Mojo. The Mojo does have a warmer presentation than you will get with the Qutest, and you will lose noticeable detail retrieval. You keep the Chord sound, and get a good sense of whether their approach suits you.

I will share some more thoughts this evening, once I get this pesky work thing out of the way


----------



## doggiemom

Crowbar44 said:


> So...I'm still searching for a DAC to pair with the MHA200...


My intent is to write up more thorough impressions during the week, but since you mentioned this....  the ability to power on/off and adjust the volume of the MHA200 through the D1100's remote is really convenient.


----------



## Exer

Garak said:


> Not sure where you're getting 1W with 1266. Formula S has around 2.1 W @ 47ohm. It was also specifically built for Abyss headphones and current is what's going to matter for planars.


You are correct; my apologies. Should have watched the video again before providing specific numbers. The general sentiment in the video Abyss - Formula S (6 minute marker) is that topology should be considered along with wattage. Back in the day, the Woo Audio WA-2 was considered an ideal pairing for the Beyerdynamic T1 600 ohm, with a power output under 1W. My point is that the fixation on one number that has arisen with the onset of high wattage amplifiers has resulted in the inference that the MHA200 may not be an ideal pairing for less efficient headphones. As we see more impressions come out, I suspect that inference will be demonstrably false.


----------



## Loftprojection

Exer said:


> The short answer is yes. The Qutest and Hugo 2 don't add warmth or brightness, but they are great at detail retrieval. The biggest difference for me was a musical engagement that is addictive. You find yourself lost in music and tapping your toes with the Chord DACs, an experience I haven't found with others. Note that I haven't had a chance to try any of the Denafrips yet, which based on feedback appears to be a growing star.
> 
> One great way to get a feel for how the Qutest will work in your system is to trial, borrow, or buy a Chord Mojo. The Mojo does have a warmer presentation than you will get with the Qutest, and you will lose noticeable detail retrieval. You keep the Chord sound, and get a good sense of whether their approach suits you.
> 
> I will share some more thoughts this evening, once I get this pesky work thing out of the way


Your feedback is very interesting as I am also a « one headphone » type, also on Empyrean!   However we differ a bit on the DAC side as I don’t like the more digital sound of Chord DACs and so I use an R2R MHDT Orchid feeding an EL84 based tube amp, the Unison Research SH.  I am tempted by the MH200 (great looks and price) but I feel like the sound signature of the Feliks Euphoria SE would be more to my preferences since I’m a sucker for lush and silky sound!  With my current setup I could use a bit more trebble details but it would have to be sweet because I dislike it when it agresses my ears.  Anyway thanks for the info you are sharing.


----------



## u2u2

Been lurking around this thread for the past month as the MHA200 is the first piece of McIntosh kit that I can stretch to afford and meets my fancy. Simple inputs/outputs, tubes, no DAC, nice piece of eye candy, and it seems respectable sound at the price point... Zero chance of auditioning one in my area though and the volume control is of concern but some of the more recent comments have eased that. Only three coming to the local dealer and one already sold, sight unseen, so I jumped today making it two down, one to go. Won't arrive for a couple of weeks, give or take. It will be joining two first generation Woos, a WA6 and WA22. I have a Woo WDS-1 DAC that I had to put down recently as the latest versions of Mac OS didn't get along with it. Possible downside of being immersed in the Apple world. Picked up a Chord Qutest as a replacement and it plays very nicely with the Woos (and Macs) but I haven't seen any comment on actually pairing it with the MHA200, only speculation. Main phones are HD 800, HD 820, and Focal Elears. Hoping there will be more impressions and comments posted by those who have been hands on with this amp. Sitting on pins and needles over this risky blind buy!


----------



## mleader

u2u2 said:


> Been lurking around this thread for the past month as the MHA200 is the first piece of McIntosh kit that I can stretch to afford and meets my fancy. Simple inputs/outputs, tubes, no DAC, nice piece of eye candy, and it seems respectable sound at the price point... Zero chance of auditioning one in my area though and the volume control is of concern but some of the more recent comments have eased that. Only three coming to the local dealer and one already sold, sight unseen, so I jumped today making it two down, one to go. Won't arrive for a couple of weeks, give or take. It will be joining two first generation Woos, a WA6 and WA22. I have a Woo WDS-1 DAC that I had to put down recently as the latest versions of Mac OS didn't get along with it. Possible downside of being immersed in the Apple world. Picked up a Chord Qutest as a replacement and it plays very nicely with the Woos (and Macs) but I haven't seen any comment on actually pairing it with the MHA200, only speculation. Main phones are HD 800, HD 820, and Focal Elears. Hoping there will be more impressions and comments posted by those who have been hands on with this amp. Sitting on pins and needles over this risky blind buy!


I too bought the MHA200 sight unseen and couldn't be happier.  In case you haven't seen the following review, a good overview.  

Running the MHA off of a Kann Cube using the balanced XLR line out.  Headphones -> Focal Utopia with Dana Lazuli Reference cable.

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/mcintosh-mha200-tube-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## qboogie

I wish there were more reviews.


----------



## mammal

qboogie said:


> I wish there were more reviews.


Especially for Abyss headphones


----------



## asaprod

Now if anyone wants to part off of his MHA200, let me know, I'm interested


----------



## qboogie

mammal said:


> Especially for Abyss headphones


I guess one of us will be there first to write that one. It is going to be 2-3 months before I get my amp though.


----------



## Crowbar44

qboogie said:


> I wish there were more reviews.


Yeah...don't hold your breath.  McIntosh typically doesn't send out a ton of review samples...I suspect the Positive Feedback review was of a purchased unit.

My Bifrost 2 finally arrived, and it's made a substantial difference in my system, far more detailed and crystalline - compared to using the onboard MB card from my Asgard 3.  To say it pairs well with the MHA200 isn't exactly true - as the MHA200 is so transparent it just lets the DACs character come though unmolested.  I had hoped that the higher output voltage of a dedicated DAC might allow for more useful travel in the volume knob, but that's not the case.  The "usable" travel in the volume knob is extremely tight and remains between 12:00 and 2:00 using the 32 Ohm impedance setting.  Adding the MHA200 to a system with a pre-amp was likely an expectation in the design.  Nevertheless, this remains the best sounding, most transparent, amp I've ever heard.  Still no regrets on the purchase.


----------



## Nostoi

I would also be keen to hear more reviews. The impression from Positive Feedback lived up to its name by being too hyperbolically positive and not enough in the way of critical feedback.


----------



## TSAVJason

Nostoi said:


> I would also be keen to hear more reviews. The impression from Positive Feedback lived up to its name by being too hyperbolically positive and not enough in the way of critical feedback.


That writers style is sort of bubbles in your pop but his enthusiasm is pretty much in the ballpark even with the over zealous style.


----------



## u2u2

mleader said:


> I too bought the MHA200 sight unseen and couldn't be happier.  In case you haven't seen the following review, a good overview.
> 
> Running the MHA off of a Kann Cube using the balanced XLR line out.  Headphones -> Focal Utopia with Dana Lazuli Reference cable.
> 
> https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/mcintosh-mha200-tube-headphone-amplifier/


He comments on the volume issue... but otherwise loads of praise. His cable tastes are certainly above my means. Do you think you have a first run unit and did you have any issue with your volume? Congrats on the purchase.


----------



## TSAVJason

We are happy to announce our July 17th Zoom meeting is with Ken Zellin of McIntosh. He is very intimate with the MHA200 and it’s development. Not only will Ken be explaining the features and design but there will also be a Q&A session. Ken is amazingly informative and always fun to talk with.  

Date: 7/17/2021
Time: 2pm Pacific Time
Zoom Meeting 

more updates to follow!


----------



## TSAVJason (Jun 11, 2021)

OOPS sorry 😞 
Didn’t mean to post it twice 💣



We are happy to announce our July 17th Zoom meeting is with Ken Zellin of McIntosh. He is very intimate with the MHA200 and it’s development. Not only will Ken be explaining the features and design but there will also be a Q&A session. Ken is amazingly informative and always fun to talk with.

Date: 7/17/2021
Time: 2pm Pacific Time
Zoom Meeting

more updates to follow!


----------



## mleader

u2u2 said:


> He comments on the volume issue... but otherwise loads of praise. His cable tastes are certainly above my means. Do you think you have a first run unit and did you have any issue with your volume? Congrats on the purchase.


I can only agree with his comments regarding the performance, especially after 40+ hours of use.  Yes, same observations with the volume control, between 12-2 at most for Utopia's.  I find setting the load to the 250 ohm setting for the Utopias gives me a nice level at about unity (12) or just a small tick past (using balanced 4V fixed line out from the Kann).
I ordered at the beginning of Feb and received my unit (I believe in the first batch that shipped) first week of May, serial #1002.  My first tube amp and extremely impressed with the performance, every day I listen it seems to open up more...


----------



## Crowbar44

mleader said:


> I can only agree with his comments regarding the performance, especially after 40+ hours of use.  Yes, same observations with the volume control, between 12-2 at most for Utopia's.  I find setting the load to the 250 ohm setting for the Utopias gives me a nice level at about unity (12) or just a small tick past (using balanced 4V fixed line out from the Kann).
> I ordered at the beginning of Feb and received my unit (I believe in the first batch that shipped) first week of May, serial #1002.  My first tube amp and extremely impressed with the performance, every day I listen it seems to open up more...


Yup...frankly for me, this amp could have a toggle switch for volume control and it would still be extraordinary.  I'm one of the early adopters, and bought ears unheard.  Volume control issues are real, and are an annoyance, but life ain't perfect.  But if you want close to the ideal in transparency, this is the amp for you.  Colored OTLs  are super cool, and can sound fantastic with the right setup - but the MHA200 gets close to the "straight wire with gain" ideal. 

With that said...you should still spend most of your money on transducers.   A Schiit Asgard 3 MB with Focal Clears sound better to me than an MHA200 with HD 660S's...Buuuut LCD-2F's and the MHA200 are, for me, audio nirvana...methinks Empyreans are next...


----------



## doggiemom (Jun 14, 2021)

After spending a couple weeks with the MHA200, I am finally ready to give some initial impressions. Thanks to @TSAVJason and his excellent staff at The Source AV for the amp and help with cabling to make A/B comparisons easier.

*Setup:*

My setup is Tidal running from a PC in exclusive mode > McIntosh D1100 DAC/preamp > MHA200 > McIntosh MHA200 > Focal Utopia. All cables are from Kimber, if that matters to anyone. Prior to purchasing the MHA200, my headphone amp was the excellent Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold. I still really enjoy the LAu, so this write-up will refer to it a lot as it really is a different beast from the MHA200.

*Initial impressions:*

The most immediately striking characteristic of the MHA200 is how it breathes life into vocals. One of my favorite albums right now is Bonny Light Horseman’s self-titled debut, and the MHA200 makes it shine. Unlike many modern recordings, this one makes excellent use of dynamic range; you can feel the pleading in Eric D. Johnson’s voice when he begs you not to break his heart. The MHA200 allows the supporting guitars strums and picks to be heard and presents them with accurate placement.

The bass is punchy but not overly thumpy (which may be a negative to some), and details such as cymbal decay sound life-like.

Listening to a live recording such as The National’s excellent performance of Boxer in Brussels with the MHA200 is the next best thing to being there: you can hear Matt take a breath and the applause of the crowd around you. (I really miss live music!)

*Versus Liquid Gold:*

My major quibble with the D1100 and LAu pairing has always been that they are both so accurate and transparent that the soundstage on the Utopia feel narrow. Swapping a turntable for the digital source rectified this and swapping the MHA200 for the LAu gives similar results.

The bass with the MHA200 has more thump than with the LAu, but the LAu has more accurate sub bass. The vocal-centric nature of the MHA200 clouds some of the treble details. For these reasons, I feel that the LAu is a better choice for electronic, classical, and metal. However, for music in which the most important instrument is the singer’s voice, the MHA200 can’t be beat. I listen to the latter more than the former, so I suspect that the MHA200 will be my everyday amp.

*MHA200 with TT:*

I have also done some listening with using a Pro-ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB as a source and Pro-ject Phono Box S2 phono pre-amp. To be honest, with this setup I prefer the LAu. The combination of TT and MHA200 is almost too much of a good thing: the vocals are so forward that it feels like the singer is sitting on top of my head. In fairness, this could be a limitation of my TT setup.

*Hardware:*

I’ll try to address a couple of the hardware concerns that have been raised.

The volume knob is lightweight, but it doesn’t feel flimsy to me. If you are able to turn a knob like an adult and not like a toddler who must grab everything with a clenched fist there won’t be a problem. It is true that the volume increase is very non-linear past the 12 o’clock position. I’ve been running with the load set to 100 Ohms because of the D1100 (I’ll get to that later), but changing to 32 Ohms gives the volume knob more usable range. I do think this concern is valid; the volume does increase so sharply with a small turn of the knob after ~1 o’clock that it would be easy to blow out your ear drums.

About the recommendation to use the MHA200 with fixed output while adjusting the volume with the source: The D1100 has fixed and variable balanced outputs. I have the MHA200 connected via the variable output of the D1100, which allows me to adjust the volume using the remote control for the DH1100.  This eliminates the usable range of the volume knob as a problem.  Many head-fiers are probably using sources with a fixed output so I understand why the recommended setup is weird, but when paired with a McIntosh preamp it makes sense… presumably McIntosh would like people to have all McIntosh setups. A cheap-o M/M 3.5 mm cable also allows one button on/off for both the D1100 and MHA200.

Regarding the green lights: it would be nice to be able to turn them off, but the stock tubes do not glow very brightly, so perhaps that is the rationale behind the always-on green lights.

*In conclusion:*

Like @Crowbar44, I bought the MHA200 without auditioning it. It is my first tube amp, and I do not regret the purchase at all. Hopefully this helps someone considering a purchase.  Feel free to ask any questions and I will do my best to answer.

(Edited to clean up a couple of typos).


----------



## SpeleoFool (Jun 13, 2021)

I met a friend for lunch on Friday and had my portable Arya rig with (SP1000 + Amp).  There's a HiFi shop nearby that specializes in McIntosh and a bunch of _extremely_ high-end gear.  For example, they had the MHA200 hooked up to a Burmester 088 preamp (had to look it up--it's somewhere in the $30k range).





Like others have commented, I was immediately struck by how tiny this amp is (footprint is about half of Pendant).  Between that and listening impressions on Aryas, my want factor was through the roof.

I returned yesterday with a small pile of headphones to see how the MHA200 handles them.  The results were surprising, and unfortunately, not all good.  I expected to walk out with this amp, but ended up giving it a pass.




What I brought and why:

1. Susvara:  I didn't expect the MHA200 to have the oomph to drive Susvara well, but after hearing how it handled Aryas, I had to try.  I love Susvara on Pendant, FWIW.
2. VCs: The penultimate tube can, as far as I'm concerned.  I pretty much only listen to my VCs on Pendant, because the synergy is so magical.
3. DT880 600 ohm:  The other end of the "hard to drive" spectrum, sound quality can vary astronomically with source
4. DT1770 Pro: another middling can--not hard to drive, and tends to like tubes.  For variety and evaluating bass, etc.
5. Stellia: I have never cared for any of my Focal headphones on tubes; brought as a challenge to see if the MHA200 could do it justice



elctrokrdiogrm said:


> Any impressions with the Arya?



Yeah, it's an AWESOME pairing.  The SP1000 + Amp drive Arya about as well as my desktop chain (ADI-2 -> A90), so it was nice to have that along as an A-B.  I only had a couple songs with Aryas, but while piano percussion was a little more solid on the DAP, everything else was as good or better on the McIntosh amp.  It played well to Aryas staging capabilities and made a wonderful first impression.



qboogie said:


> Would you say it drives the Abyss with authority, especially the bass? In the video, it seems like the MHA200 was good with the HEDDphone but speculated that it wouldn't be synergistic with the Susvara.



Susvara did better than I expected, but it lacked the air and control that comes from higher end chains.  Overall, Susvara on MHA200 reminded me of Susvara on A90: performance is good enough to demonstrate that something special is going on, but not to squeeze every drop of resolution out of the headphones.  I wouldn't write off this combo, but I also wouldn't seek it out.  For the price, I easily prefer Susvara on Pendant.

FWIW, my reference chain for Susvara actually uses a McIntosh amp--specifically, Zone B of the 8207 that drives my home theater.  That's a 200Wpc 7-channel SS amp.  I use a Goldpoint level control for trim and feed that chain through a Holo May.  It's a wondrously expansive, clean, precise sound.



Nostoi said:


> Nice. If anyone gets a chance to hear how this pairs with ZMF VC, I'd love to hear.



Shockingly, I didn't like this combo.  Going in, I expected this to be a slam dunk--I love ZMF headphones on tubes, but I had a hell of a time dialing in the MHA200 for my VCs.  There _is_ a sweet spot, but getting there was so much effort that I got annoyed.

The "load" dial changes the sound significantly for all headphones, but the effect was especially dramatic with VCs.  The lower ohm settings produce overwhelming, boomy bass, while mids felt lacking on the 250 and 600 ohm settings until I got the volume up high enough--but getting there put overall volume on the edge of being too much.  It's like, with the right combination of dials in the exact right positions, the stars will line up and you get beautiful music.  But there's no play.

I feel like maybe this could be mitigated with a better setup--one that uses a pre for trim, for example.  However, that kinda killed the appeal of the tiny footprint.  Why not just put a nicer volume control on the unit?



Crowbar44 said:


> with this setup the "usable" volume is only between 12:00 at 1:30..which makes volume adjustment touchy.



That is precisely what I experienced as well.  Moreover, both Stellias and Susvaras had the same usable range, which was really odd.  But at least the MHA200 never has trouble delivering plenty of volume.



kahkityoong said:


> Very interested to see how this matches with the Utopia



I brought Stellia, but also own Utopia; their characteristics are similar enough that I expect my Stellia experience to translate--and that experience was _good._

I have never really cared for Focal headphones on tubes.  Even with Pendant, it felt like the tubes were in conflict with Focal's typically bright and detailed voicing.

I didn't expect to like Stellia on the MHA200, but I did.  Details are great, bass was well balanced (had the signature Stellia bump, but with tight control and good quantity).  I am sure Utopia will perform equally well.



> OTHER CANS:



Ironically, the 880s stole the show.  It's both funny and a little unsettling that out of everything I bought, these sub-$200 cans outclassed both VC and Susvara on the MHA200.  But I suppose it's not surprising.

Most desktop amps tend to run out of steam by 600 ohms, and the 880s have a sensitivity that's just low enough to make them challenging to drive well for a lot of amps.  On stuff like THX amps, A90, etc., they sound like $200 cans--well behaved with a nice balance, but a bit of graininess and ho-hum detail extension.  But if you pair them with an amp that has muscle at 600 ohms, they scale like crazy.

These 880s were so good on the MHA200 that I called the sales guy over to listen, and the first thing he said was, "these are $200???"  This from a store that stocks RMAF-level gear.

1770s were also outstanding.  Bass was tight and not exaggerated beyond what 1770s already do.  Not much to say here--MHA200 handled these perfectly.



HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I know that which is why I want to upgrade.   I would love to see a shoot out between the Macintosh MHA200, the ZMF Pendant SE and the Primaluna Evo 100.   They are all in the same price bracket and have transformers on the output with multiple output impedances for low and high impedance headphones.



I have owned the pre-SE Pendant for almost a year; I picked it up with my VCs since those are my 3rd pair of ZMF headphones (after Eikon, Auteur), and I wanted a tube amp specifically for my ZMF cans.  Beyond that, the plan was to experiment with other cans to see what worked.  I just wanted a "good" tube amp.

What I got was an exceptional tube amp.  I knew from CANJAM what to expect from my ZMF cans, and indeed, VCs on Pendant are my favorite chain for euphonic listening.  I didn't Pendant to drive Susvara, much less with the authority that it does.  It's a wonderful alternative option to the 8207.  Pendant smooths the highs and delivers an enhanced sense of space.  I do prefer the SS chain for timbre & dynamics for stuff like orchestra music and scores, but most everything else just sounds more musical on Pendant.

Based on my listening experience with the MHA200, it didn't strike me as being as versatile as Pendant.  Performance ranged from exceptional with the right pairings, to "passable" with others.

The biggest disappointment with the MHA200 was how finicky the volume controls are.  Even with Susvara, the volume change is shockingly rapid past the 12:00 detent (and the knob is tiny, less precise than I'd like, and moves too easily for how rapidly it changes volume).  There's nowhere near enough play available, and it was challenging with VCs to balance bass performance, mid involvement, and overall loudness to an enjoyable range.  I suspect that using an external volume control / pre might improve or even resolve that problem, but for an amp with such a small footprint, I'd really prefer to have a better built-in volume control.

For looks and industrial design, McIntosh wins hands down (unless you have OCD about fingerprints, lol).  This little amp is stunning in person and represents McIntosh's legendary aesthetics well.  Pendant is more rustic / utilitarian, but does have very good build quality.  It's also roughly the size of two MHA200s side by side--more a testament to how compact the McIntosh is than a critique of Pendant's size.

Between the two, Pendant is an easy pick for me, only because it's the better amp for Susvara and VC, which are my two favorite headphones.  If I only had Aryas instead, it would be a much tougher choice.


----------



## Nostoi

SpeleoFool said:


> I met a friend for lunch on Friday and had my portable Arya rig with (SP1000 + Amp).  There's a HiFi shop nearby that specializes in McIntosh and a bunch of _extremely_ high-end gear.  For example, they had the MHA200 hooked up to a Burmester 088 preamp (had to look it up--it's somewhere in the $30k range).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you, this is by far the best set of impressions I've read on the MHA200. 

My motivation was to pair this with my VC, but coupled with the volume issue, it sounds as though the Pendant is far better suited to this purpose. It's disappointing because the form factor would have been ideal for me.

Good to hear about the Beyer pairing, especially the 880. I hope to demo this at some point, though just out of curiosity.

Thanks again.


----------



## SpeleoFool

Nostoi said:


> Thank you, this is by far the best set of impressions I've read on the MHA200.



Thanks.  I wasn't expecting to do a writeup, but I found this thread after looking for reviews to see if others were having the same issues with the level control and if anyone had tried an external pre.  After reading the early posts, though, it was apparent that I had something to contribute.  Glad you found it helpful.

I'm personally looking forward to other impressions with VC.  I'm still having a hard time accepting that I didn't care for the experience, and hoping it's something a different chain setup could fix.



doggiemom said:


> About the recommendation to use the MHA200 with fixed output while adjusting the volume with the source: The DH1100 has fixed and variable balanced outputs. I have the MHA200 connected via the variable output of the MHA200, which allows me to adjust the volume using the remote control for the DH1100. This eliminates the usable range of the volume knob as a problem. Many head-fiers are probably using sources with a fixed output so I understand why the recommended setup is weird, but when paired with a McIntosh pre-amp it makes sense… presumably McIntosh would like people to have all McIntosh setups. A cheap-o M/M 3.5 mm cable also allows one button on/off for both the DH1100 and MHS200.



Thanks for confirming this.  I had inferred from the detent, the dramatic difference in volume scaling before and after 12:00, and my familiarity with other McIntosh gear that the MHA200 probably expects to be used with an external volume control.  I was a little proud of myself for guessing that when I read somewhere back on the first page or two here that something to that effect is in the manual.  But it's helpful to hear that you're getting a good experience with that setup.

For context, my home theater uses a McIntosh C2600 tube preamp, an MX122 processor, and an MC8207 multichannel amp.  I use this setup for music, movies, and gaming, and I've (loosely) integrated my best headphone amps with this setup so that I can use my Holo May for both speakers and headphones.

Anyway, the McIntosh way to hook this all up requires routing the main L and R channels from the preamp directly to the power amp.  That's the optimal connectivity for 2 channel music, of course, but it means that the preamp is a passthrough for surround, and I have to turn the processor off for pure 2-channel music.  In fact, the whole idea with McIntosh 2-channel is to use the pre-amp as the main control hub for all stereo audio.  In that paradigm, an MHA200 is just another output accessory, so the whole goofy level control thing makes sense.  I just wish it was a little friendlier for standalone desktop usage without an external level control.


----------



## chrishunt (Jun 13, 2021)

My usual headphone amp is the Chord TT2 and my usual headphones are the Rad-0 and ZMF VC. We use a McIntosh MC240 for our speakers at home and love the sound, so I was excited about this headphone amp. I finally got the chance to listen yesterday at a local shop for a couple hours and unfortunately was disappointed in both the build quality and the sound, but had a fun time.

Both knobs (impedance and volume) felt cheap and small. It seems silly to complain about knobs and I usually don't place much emphasis on how a knob feels, but the knobs are just so cheap feeling (to me) that it stood out to me immediately and ruined my experience from the start. The cheap knobs and overall cheap build quality felt more obvious to me when I set a PrimaLuna 100 Integrated next to it for comparison.

Cosmetics and build aside, I unfortunately was also underwhelmed by the sound. When comparing to the Chord TT2, the inexpensive Mackie ProFXv3 op amp, and the PrimaLuna 100 Integrated, the McIntosh sounded the least satisfying to me. In comparison, I would describe the MHA200 as weak/thin sounding... more midrange and less everything else. I clicked through the different impedance values and found them to have a large impact on the sound (mostly in the bass), but none were interesting enough to get me excited. It didn't sound terrible or broken, I just found it less preferable to anything else I plugged my headphones into.

I spent most of my time in the shop comparing directly with the PrimaLuna 100 Integrated and preferred the PrimaLuna in every way besides its size. It's substantially larger and heavier (almost 4x the weight) with larger/more tubes, tube status indicators, larger transformers, lots of point-to-point wiring, more inputs, remote control, and speaker taps. Our older MC240 at home is also very large and heavy (and still works great today). The PrimaLuna sounded fantastic to me compared to the MHA200. It reminded me very much of the TT2, but with a bit of color.

Overall, I'm disappointed with the MHA200 and am probably going to pick up a PrimaLuna 100 or something from ampsandsound. I don't think the MHA200 is a bad amp (sounded fine to me), but in comparison to other options I have at home or are available for the same price, it wasn't exciting or better in any way to me. I think I would still consider it if I wanted to expand an existing McIntosh collection, but I'm not a collector so I'm going to pass on this one.


----------



## qboogie

Thanks for the honest impressions. I have a VC/VO too and will have to listen for myself. I have an entry level Feliks Echo OTL amp and am rather new to tubes. MHA200 should at least be a good upgrade from that


----------



## Exer

u2u2 said:


> Been lurking around this thread for the past month as the MHA200 is the first piece of McIntosh kit that I can stretch to afford and meets my fancy. Simple inputs/outputs, tubes, no DAC, nice piece of eye candy, and it seems respectable sound at the price point... Zero chance of auditioning one in my area though and the volume control is of concern but some of the more recent comments have eased that. Only three coming to the local dealer and one already sold, sight unseen, so I jumped today making it two down, one to go. Won't arrive for a couple of weeks, give or take. It will be joining two first generation Woos, a WA6 and WA22. I have a Woo WDS-1 DAC that I had to put down recently as the latest versions of Mac OS didn't get along with it. Possible downside of being immersed in the Apple world. Picked up a Chord Qutest as a replacement and it plays very nicely with the Woos (and Macs) but I haven't seen any comment on actually pairing it with the MHA200, only speculation. Main phones are HD 800, HD 820, and Focal Elears. Hoping there will be more impressions and comments posted by those who have been hands on with this amp. Sitting on pins and needles over this risky blind buy!


The Hugo 2 that I have paired with my MHA200 and the Qutest are extremely similar. I have shared some impressions, but happy to answer any questions. Apologies that I haven't been as active on this thread as I had intended to be.

Volume control is well covered here. I am very cautious with it as a small nudge could result in frighteningly high volumes, but I am able to dial it in. Some additional thoughts below:

*Bass*: No coloration or additional oomph, but has an authority that is impressive. Not a thin or lean sounding amp in any way with my setup (Hugo 2 -> MHA200 -> Empyrean)
*Mids*: Compelling. Most in the headphone journey have probably had a Grado at one point and heard the magic with a simpler acoustic track. The MHA200 imparts that magic.
*Treble*: Detail is great. I get more detail than I have with other amp pairings. It does feel on the limit of strident or sibilant, but with any harshness just slightly rolled off. With my Empyreans, that's a nice compromise, as I get some detail that they typically lack against their high-end peers. I do worry that a brighter headphone like the HD800 could be sibilant with the MHA200, and look forward to seeing feedback. The tube pairing suggested in the Positive Feedback review would tame that based on how it changed the sound on my setup.
*Soundstage*: Better than anything I've tried. Wide and deep when recorded that way, pinpoint accuracy, even in tracks with complex staging (live choral for instance)

I will add some comparisons to other amps I have tried later today.


----------



## u2u2

Exer said:


> The Hugo 2 that I have paired with my MHA200 and the Qutest are extremely similar. I have shared some impressions, but happy to answer any questions. Apologies that I haven't been as active on this thread as I had intended to be.
> 
> Volume control is well covered here. I am very cautious with it as a small nudge could result in frighteningly high volumes, but I am able to dial it in. Some additional thoughts below:
> 
> ...


Appreciate your feedback and that of others that have posted. 
The volume control seems to be a major oversight with this amp. I can see risk adverse buyers passing it over and going to another brand without hesitation. Be interesting to see if McIntosh updates the control. They also need to update the wording in their manual as the design of this amp is sounding somewhat unsafe for customers hearing! Then again, no one has commented yet, but is the volume ramp up feature so good as to negate any safety concerns?
I did find comment in respect to the fixed output levels of the Qutest and potentially excessive volume levels... A suggested solution was that of a passive pre amp, specifically the Schiit SYS. I ordered one and am trying it out with my current setup. My present use case didn't require it but it buys a safety margin and I see a bona fide need with the McIntosh and their approach to volume control. Haven't detected any negative effect on the audio quality so it will do duty on the MHA200 when I receive it. A $49.00 add on to fix a $2,500.00 flaw? If one needs such a device with their Qutest at least Chord has an excuse as they didn't market their DAC for headphone amps and they clearly state the DAC must be connected to a device capable of attenuating the output. Will have to join in on Zoom in July and see if McIntosh or The Source flesh the topic out. 
Enjoy your amp.


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## doggiemom (Jun 14, 2021)

u2u2 said:


> The volume control seems to be a major oversight with this amp. I can see risk adverse buyers passing it over and going to another brand without hesitation. Be interesting to see if McIntosh updates the control. They also need to update the wording in their manual as the design of this amp is sounding somewhat unsafe for customers hearing! Then again, no one has commented yet, but is the volume ramp up feature so good as to negate any safety concerns?


Although I use the MHA200 with the variable output from a D1100, I also use the fixed out from a phono preamp so I understand the concern.  I do think some common sense best practices can help mitigate the risk.  Even before getting the MHA200, I always start playback before putting headphones on, in case I was listening to something from a different quieter source previously, the housekeeper dusted a volume knob or a dog bumped into something and turned the volume up to the max... If the cans were already on my head and one of those things happened then yes, the amp gets loud enough to hurt your ears.  But anyone who has this amp is going to be well aware of the exponential volume increase after 12 o'clock, so seems like the greatest risk would be at start up, and that can be mitigated by preventative measures.

P.S.  My husband wears hearing aids because he has high frequency hearing loss in both ears, and is down to 25% hearing in one ear.... as a music lover (and his wife) I feel so bad for him, so I try _really_ hard to not damage my hearing.  His damage is from a combination of a tumor on an audoratory (I probably didn't spell that right) nerve, being in the service during wartime, and a really, really loud bar concert.  (He does not think the latter was worth it).


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## Crowbar44 (Jun 15, 2021)

u2u2 said:


> Appreciate your feedback and that of others that have posted.
> The volume control seems to be a major oversight with this amp. I can see risk adverse buyers passing it over and going to another brand without hesitation. Be interesting to see if McIntosh updates the control. They also need to update the wording in their manual as the design of this amp is sounding somewhat unsafe for customers hearing! Then again, no one has commented yet, but is the volume ramp up feature so good as to negate any safety concerns?
> I did find comment in respect to the fixed output levels of the Qutest and potentially excessive volume levels... A suggested solution was that of a passive pre amp, specifically the Schiit SYS. I ordered one and am trying it out with my current setup. My present use case didn't require it but it buys a safety margin and I see a bona fide need with the McIntosh and their approach to volume control. Haven't detected any negative effect on the audio quality so it will do duty on the MHA200 when I receive it. A $49.00 add on to fix a $2,500.00 flaw? If one needs such a device with their Qutest at least Chord has an excuse as they didn't market their DAC for headphone amps and they clearly state the DAC must be connected to a device capable of attenuating the output. Will have to join in on Zoom in July and see if McIntosh or The Source flesh the topic out.
> Enjoy your amp.


I find the volume ramp up to very good and reliable - so I don't have any safety concerns.

I'm considering adding a pre-amp to my MHA200 as well for the reasons listed above...if anyone has any recommendations of a quality, compact, passive pre-amp with a remote, I'd appreciate it!  The easy choice seems to be a Schiit Saga+ or Freya+ - but would appreciate other recommendations.


----------



## Nostoi

Thanks for the additional impressions. If they fixed the volume issue on this, I'd be interested. My sense is that the volume issue is not trivial on several fronts.

First, obviously there is the issue of control and precision. We develop bodily habits with out gear. I have become used to interacting with a precise attenuator (64 Step, 1dB Per Step Attenuator) on my current amp. Moving from that to the MH200 would not work for me due to inconvenience and also kinaesthetic habits (in effect, it would be a downgrade in experience). 

I would also say, the volume control is the main point of interaction with any amp - as such, it serves as an "ambassador" for the product as a whole especially in terms of its build. We want to have a sense of confidence in the amps we use and this is represented/expressed above all in the feel of the volume control (after all, we generally don't spend our time plugging RCA/XLR cables in and out - rather, we spend our time with our hand on the volume control). 

I really hope they either fix this or revise it.


----------



## u2u2

Crowbar44 said:


> I find the volume ramp up to very good and reliable - so I don't have any safety concerns.
> 
> I'm considering adding a pre-amp to my MHA200 as well for the reasons listed above...if anyone has any recommendations of a quality, compact, passive pre-amp with a remote, I'd appreciate it!  The easy choice seems to be a Schiit Saga+ or Freya+ - but would appreciate other recommendations.


Good to hear the ramp up does the job.
I have been looking for a passive pre-amp as well. Don't think the SYS I have will be up to the job long term and it doesn't seem befitting of the McIntosh. One passive I have spotted many positive posts on is the Khozmo Acoustics that is available with options such as remote, resistance values and upgrades to meet specific needs. Probably going to reach out to this boutique maker and get more info. I am hoping this would put my money into better quality components and build rather than Schiit features I won't use...
Be curious if anyone here has experience with them.


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## Crowbar44 (Jun 15, 2021)

u2u2 said:


> Good to hear the ramp up does the job.
> I have been looking for a passive pre-amp as well. Don't think the SYS I have will be up to the job long term and it doesn't seem befitting of the McIntosh. One passive I have spotted many positive posts on is the Khozmo Acoustics that is available with options such as remote, resistance values and upgrades to meet specific needs. Probably going to reach out to this boutique maker and get more info. I am hoping this would put my money into better quality components and build rather than Schiit features I won't use...
> Be curious if anyone here has experience with them.


Khozmo looks like it would fit the bill - a stepped attenuator in a box with a remote...$499.  Agree that Sys ain't gonna cut it.  B-stock Freya+ for $899 is tempting.

I'm going to take a step back though and wait for now...the volume control on the MHA200 doesn't bother me enough to add another component to the signal path.


----------



## Bassic Needs

I'd be curious about listening impressions of the solid state MHA-150 vs MHA-200.


----------



## mammal

SpeleoFool said:


> Like others have commented, I was immediately struck by how tiny this amp is


Wow, that's super tiny. And I thought bakoon is tiny, haha.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Next week I might be lucky and the dealer will have the Mha 200 and I can test it.
I think I will also take the Lcd 2C directly.
Anything I should look out for?

Are there any known problems with the volume control on the Macintosh?

I don't know yet if I will buy it, because I bought the Feliks Euforia not too long ago.
Nevertheless, I am open to the Mha 200.
I'm also very curious to see which of the two is better.


----------



## Herr Korven

This surprisingly tiny unit arrived today , replacing a Schiit Mjolnir 2.





The equipment chain is PC > Singxer SU6 (USB to AES/EBU) > Schiit Yggdrasil A1 > MHA200 > Focal Stellia

I've only been listening for an hour so far and I have been pleasantly surprised. It's doing things with my Focal Stellia that the Schiit Mjolnir 2 has not been able to.

I am not very good at explaining things in audio terms, since I mostly get lost in the music, but going from the Mjolnir 2 to the MHA200 the bass has gone from good to better, even making me feel the bass in my ears beyond simply hearing it. This immediately made me want to listen to the Blade Runner 2049 soundtrack and it did not disappoint.

Soundstage is great, a definite improvement over the Mjolnir 2 and very noticeable on alternative rock specifically, where on the Mjolnir 2 I generally experienced it as a single flat band, it now feels like there is a more depth. In other genres I listen to like Blues, Rock, Classic and EDM I notice an improvement as well, but not as pronounced.

I also noticed earlier that it will go back to standby automatically after 30 minutes of no input. A nice feature to be sure, considering I frequently forgot to turn off the Mjolnir 2.

My 2 cents I guess


----------



## Crowbar44

Herr Korven said:


> This surprisingly tiny unit arrived today , replacing a Schiit Mjolnir 2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mjolnir 2 was on my short list until Schiit knifed it...went with the MHA200 instead - glad I did.  I think you're statements on the bass are spot on, my Clears have far more bass with the MHA200 than they did with my Asgard 3 MB.

FYI you can disable the automatic standby mode by holding the power button till the indicator blinks - I didn't do this, as I like the feature as well.

Curious about the Singxer...are you using it because your Yggy is non Unison?


----------



## Herr Korven

Crowbar44 said:


> Curious about the Singxer...are you using it because your Yggy is non Unison?



My Yggy still has its original usb module, non-gen5 and non-unison. I ran it on optical before, but my new computer is very moody with it's onboard sound bits and optical works some days and not on others. I went with this DDC solution because the old usb module does not sound as good as the AES/EBU or Optical.




Crowbar44 said:


> FYI you can disable the automatic standby mode by holding the power button till the indicator blinks - I didn't do this, as I like the feature as well.



Nice .


----------



## Loftprojection

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> Next week I might be lucky and the dealer will have the Mha 200 and I can test it.
> I think I will also take the Lcd 2C directly.
> Anything I should look out for?
> ...


Ho please post your impressions, MHA200 vs Euforia, this will be great info.


----------



## Deleeh

Loftprojection said:


> Ho please post your impressions, MHA200 vs Euforia, this will be great info.


Hello,
I'd love to.
I was in the shop today, unfortunately they didn't have it.
They are still waiting for delivery of the MHA200.
Unfortunately the dealer told me that 3-4 weeks ago.
As soon as I get the chance, I'll report on it.

I was only able to listen to the Aurium Pathos today, and with the Lcd 2c it was fine.
I suspect that it wasn't really warm because the mosfets need a bit of time.
I didn't have the feeling of being able to say Oh wow.

But I'm much more keen on the Mha 200, also because I'd like to know whether the added value might be worthwhile compared to the Feliks or not.
The Patos was more of a consolation and I'm glad I didn't buy it at the time.


----------



## Crowbar44 (Jun 23, 2021)

So I've heard a few OTL (output transformerless) headphone amps like the Feliks - but have never heard any of the Feliks amps.  In general OTLs have a colored, euphonic signature, with lots of pleasant harmonic distortion that many folks find irresistible. I've really liked some of the OTLs I've heard.  Classically OTL's pair best with high impedance headphones, think 300-600 Ohm Beyers.  Low impedance cans like the LCD-2 may not be the best pairing with an OTL amp, though MANY folks claim they still love their OTL amp with high efficiency/low impedance cans.  My understanding is that higher current OTLs can do a good job with low impedance transducers.

The MHA200 is VERY different than an OTL, it's detailed and accurate, as SET (single ended triode) tube amps tend to be, not warm and gooey, like most OTLs.

As always, let your ears decide, and don't buy without hearing both.


----------



## Loftprojection

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> I'd love to.
> I was in the shop today, unfortunately they didn't have it.
> They are still waiting for delivery of the MHA200.
> ...


Ok thanks, I’ll be waiting impatiently your head to head comparo!  .  The are probably very different amps but they are in the same price bracket so a comparo between both is a nice, which I will never be able to do unless I would buy them both!  I’ve never heard the LCD 2c, I personnally own the Empyrean, which I really like, no more itch to change cans since I bought these.


----------



## Loftprojection

Crowbar44 said:


> So I've heard a few OTL (output transformerless) headphone amps like the Feliks - but have never heard any of the Feliks amps.  In general OTLs have a colored, euphonic signature, with lots of pleasant harmonic distortion that many folks find irresistible. I've really liked some of the OTLs I've heard.  Classically OTL's pair best with high impedance headphones, think 300-600 Ohm Beyers.  Low impedance cans like the LCD-2 may not be the best pairing with an OTL amp, though MANY folks claim they still love their OTL amp with high efficiency/low impedance cans.  My understanding is that higher current OTLs can do a good job with low impedance transducers.
> 
> The MHA200 is VERY different than an OTL, it's detailed and accurate, as SET (single ended triode) tube amps tend to be, not warm and gooey, like most OTLs.
> 
> As always, let your ears decide, and don't buy without hearing both.


Have you heard the LTA MZ3 which is a ZOTL amp? whatever the Z does technically they claim it retains the clarity et details of SS, which seems a bit like what you describe of the MHA200.


----------



## Lépine (Jun 25, 2021)

Wow, I love this amp and what it can do with just a Hugo 2 and a 64 Audio U18t! Thanks @TSAVJason and Wayne!

Halie Loren never sounded better!

Honda needs you to put Mc in an NSX 👌


----------



## gonzalo05

Lépine said:


> Wow, I love this amp and what it can do with just a Hugo 2 and a 64 Audio U18t! Thanks @TSAVJason and Wayne!
> 
> Halie Loren never sounded better!
> 
> Honda needs you to put Mc in an NSX 👌


Wow awesome gear. Would you recommend the M-Scaler?


----------



## Lépine (Jun 24, 2021)

gonzalo05 said:


> Wow awesome gear. Would you recommend the M-Scaler?


I love my M-scaler.  I haven't hooked up the MHA200 to my TT2/M-Scaler yet.  I am expecting that if the Hugo2 sounds like this then the TT2/M-Scalar with Kimber Kable Silver Streaks is going to reach another level. Also, if you do get the M-Scaler, I tried several USB Cables and found I like Wireworld Starlight 7 USB 2.0 cable running out of a SuperSpeed USB port. For some reason, everything opens up. 

The M-Scaler/TT2 is a little warmer, richer sound with more body to it than the Hugo2. The M-Scaler/TT2 has a little more resolution and more refinement than the Hugo2.
I don't disagree with what most reviewers have written about the M-Scaler. Sorry if your question was about pairing up the MHA200 with the M-Scaler/TT2. Will get to that later on. This unit is less than a day old. I am just settling the unit in with a bit of burn in and taking it with me around the house.

Cheers.


----------



## Crowbar44

Lépine said:


> Wow, I love this amp and what it can do with just a Hugo 2 and a 64 Audio U18t! Thanks @TSAVJason and Wayne!
> 
> Halie Loren never sounded better!
> 
> Honda needs you to put Mc in an NSX 👌


Welcome to the club!  I haven't jumped down the IEM rabbit hole at all...yet.  What are your running?  And do you have any recs in the $500-$1000 price range?

Almost went with the Qutest with the MHA200...but settled on a BiFrost 2 - very happy with the pairing!


----------



## Lépine (Jun 25, 2021)

Crowbar44 said:


> Welcome to the club!  I haven't jumped down the IEM rabbit hole at all...yet.  What are your running?  And do you have any recs in the $500-$1000 price range?
> 
> Almost went with the Qutest with the MHA200...but settled on a BiFrost 2 - very happy with the pairing!


I am using 64 Audio U12t, U18t, and Noble Khan, Kaiser 10U. IEM Wires I use Wagnus, which are about $1100 for the Holy Sheep. The U18t is my favorite, but it is about $3000 with stock wires. Headphones I use Focal Utopia and ZMF Verite Closed backs. I also have ZMF Eikon that I love very much.

Haven't tried many IEMs in the $500 range that I like. IEMs are the worst Cost performance ratio in my opinion.


----------



## funkur

Has anyone tried the input tube suggestion from the Positive Feedback review (Mullard 12AT7/CV4024 NOS tubes)?

My dealer got the MHA200 in for me last week but I’m on vacation - I usually never look forward to coming back to the USA - not this time!


----------



## TSAVJason

We actually demo with both the McIntosh OE tubes and the Mullards. It’s definitely a different presentation for sure. I highly suggest you become accustomed to the OE tubes before any tube rolling but the mullards do act a little more aggressively if you like that type of sound.


----------



## funkur

TSAVJason said:


> We actually demo with both the McIntosh OE tubes and the Mullards. It’s definitely a different presentation for sure. I highly suggest you become accustomed to the OE tubes before any tube rolling but the mullards do act a little more aggressively if you like that type of sound.


Thank you, Jason.  

Is there a replaceable fuse inside the unit?  From the pictures, I didn't see a fuse holder and the manual doesn't mention one, unlike most of their other products.


----------



## TSAVJason

funkur said:


> Thank you, Jason.
> 
> Is there a replaceable fuse inside the unit?  From the pictures, I didn't see a fuse holder and the manual doesn't mention one, unlike most of their other products.


I haven’t opened up a chassis to check but I am not aware of an internal fuse.


----------



## u2u2

The usual appearance during evening listening followed by a morning where the MHA had some attitude. Just on one plate on one power tube and all back to normal now…


----------



## u2u2

The red glow on the above tube is apparently know as red plating and can result in serious damage to the amp. It came and went only to return many hours later. Result amp is out of service and going in for evaluation and repair ASAP. Ran the amp unbalanced input for a week then went balanced input. This problem emerged after going balanced. Wonder if it was a coincidence, cause, or revealed an underplaying weakness? In any event if your new MHA200 starts showing red plates shut it down and get it serviced…


----------



## mleader

u2u2 said:


> The red glow on the above tube is apparently know as red plating and can result in serious damage to the amp. It came and went only to return many hours later. Result amp is out of service and going in for evaluation and repair ASAP. Ran the amp unbalanced input for a week then went balanced input. This problem emerged after going balanced. Wonder if it was a coincidence, cause, or revealed an underplaying weakness? In any event if your new MHA200 starts showing red plates shut it down and get it serviced…


I also had one of the 12BH7 tubes go bad, a loud crackle from one of the tubes, when switching positions of the two 12B's, it followed the tube.  Replaced both with a couple of matched Electro-Harmonix golds and all sounds great again.


----------



## meomap

Hi,
Is this amp have both balanced Input and Output? What kind of connector?
Maybe Bedroom tube amp to be used.


----------



## TSAVJason

meomap said:


> Hi,
> Is this amp have both balanced Input and Output? What kind of connector?
> Maybe Bedroom tube amp to be used.


Single ended and balanced in & out. 4 pin XLR, 2 ea. 3 pin XLR and 1/4”/6.5 for single ended output …. RCA single ended input.


----------



## u2u2

mleader said:


> I also had one of the 12BH7 tubes go bad, a loud crackle from one of the tubes, when switching positions of the two 12B's, it followed the tube.  Replaced both with a couple of matched Electro-Harmonix golds and all sounds great again.


My thoughts were a tube going south. It was intermittent. Third round with the hot plate and I googled the symptom. Results in hand I wasn't going to risk matters further so off to the dealer. I expected some down time and maybe some costs to ship it to McIntosh but the dealer simply switched me up with another unit. Fantastic totally no fuss service. Listening to the replacement already and it is as good as the first. Didn't mess with the power tubes in case I compromised the warranty status. May I ask where you sourced those tubes from? Might grab a pair for when the warranty has ended.


----------



## jwbrent

Lépine said:


> Wow, I love this amp and what it can do with just a Hugo 2 and a 64 Audio U18t! Thanks @TSAVJason and Wayne!
> 
> Halie Loren never sounded better!
> 
> Honda needs you to put Mc in an NSX 👌



I like your balanced adapter. Who makes that one?


----------



## TSAVJason

Tubes are tubes, they do go bad occasionally. All McIntosh tube warranties are 90 days. These units have not been available for 90 days so anyone  that’s has a bad or failed tube can submit a request replacement at no charge


----------



## meomap

TSAVJason said:


> Single ended and balanced in & out. 4 pin XLR, 2 ea. 3 pin XLR and 1/4”/6.5 for single ended output …. RCA single ended input.


Thank you Mr. Jason....


----------



## Lépine

jwbrent said:


> I like your balanced adapter. Who makes that one?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/124673827103?hash=item1d0723a11f:g:mDYAAOSw535gcc9a

It sounds great. I don't have any concerns that it is altering the sound or degrading the signal in anyway.


----------



## mleader

u2u2 said:


> My thoughts were a tube going south. It was intermittent. Third round with the hot plate and I googled the symptom. Results in hand I wasn't going to risk matters further so off to the dealer. I expected some down time and maybe some costs to ship it to McIntosh but the dealer simply switched me up with another unit. Fantastic totally no fuss service. Listening to the replacement already and it is as good as the first. Didn't mess with the power tubes in case I compromised the warranty status. May I ask where you sourced those tubes from? Might grab a pair for when the warranty has ended.


Got mine from Tubes for Amps.  Will definitely contact my dealer about some replacements for the stock tubes.


----------



## u2u2

mleader said:


> Got mine from Tubes for Amps.  Will definitely contact my dealer about some replacements for the stock tubes.


Many thanks.


----------



## Lépine (Jul 9, 2021)

Lépine said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/124673827103?hash=item1d0723a11f:g:mDYAAOSw535gcc9a
> 
> It sounds great. I don't have any concerns that it is altering the sound or degrading the signal in anyway.


I also have one of these, which I sometimes think sounds a hint better. Noticeable at higher volumes. The high treble region is slightly rolled off and can take the edge off of very bright IEMs. But the visual quality is kind of disappointing when looking at it very closely. Mine looks like they didn't wipe glue used to seal gaps in the black rubber and gold plated metal.


----------



## funkur

Picked mine up today and it’s warming up now!  It’s from the 2nd run and I don’t have any quibbles with the volume knob.

Using a C7 adapter for the moment but I’m planning to re-terminate an existing cable with one of these:
Monosaudio Figure 8 IEC320 C7 Mains Power Plug 7A/125V 2.5A/250V Female Pure Copper Power Connector HiFi DIY (One Piece) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZZGNFL5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_21PJFDAAHMZ5NVREGMYC

I’ve used the Monosaudio bare copper plugs a few times after reading about them on CableAsylum, great sound for the price and way better than standard cryo’ed Wattgate brass.


----------



## TSAVJason

funkur said:


> Picked mine up today and it’s warming up now!  It’s from the 2nd run and I don’t have any quibbles with the volume knob.
> 
> Using a C7 adapter for the moment but I’m planning to re-terminate an existing cable with one of these:
> Monosaudio Figure 8 IEC320 C7 Mains Power Plug 7A/125V 2.5A/250V Female Pure Copper Power Connector HiFi DIY (One Piece) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZZGNFL5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_21PJFDAAHMZ5NVREGMYC
> ...


Congratulations!


----------



## 21qz

Hi all, should have the MHA200 sometime next week (crossing my fingers). Looking for a dac or dac/amp combo to pair with it. For stand alone DAC right now it looks like a) topping d90se b) smsl vmv d1se. Budget $1000. Running as desktop setup. Any thoughts, experiences, or suggestions?

I don’t want to run the PC>DAC>MHA200 all the time, so looking for a dedicated amp that is mid to high tier. Don’t care too much about wireless features.
In the “No budget” world I’d be interested in the matrix element x or comparable. Open to recommendations!


----------



## Lépine (Jul 9, 2021)

21qz said:


> Hi all, should have the MHA200 sometime next week (crossing my fingers). Looking for a dac or dac/amp combo to pair with it. For stand alone DAC right now it looks like a) topping d90se b) smsl vmv d1se. Budget $1000. Running as desktop setup. Any thoughts, experiences, or suggestions?
> 
> I don’t want to run the PC>DAC>MHA200 all the time, so looking for a dedicated amp that is mid to high tier. Don’t care too much about wireless features.
> In the “No budget” world I’d be interested in the matrix element x or comparable. Open to recommendations!


I wasn't able to completely understand the second paragraph.  As far as thoughts are concerned, I prefer running the MHA200 balanced from a balanced source. You might consider if the DAC you are considering has XLR connection ports. Your D90 apparently does fit the specs.


----------



## 21qz

Second paragraph I’m just asking for recommendations for a dac/amp aio when NOT using the mha200 through my computer.


----------



## u2u2

21qz said:


> Second paragraph I’m just asking for recommendations for a dac/amp aio when NOT using the mha200 through my computer.


To get the ball rolling:
You could grab a MOJO and use a spare iPhone (or other) to stream through it or use as storage/playback... Within budget and the MOJO sounds great into the MHA RCA input, very flexible for bit rates, has fixed line out, or use the volume control.


----------



## doggiemom

Lépine said:


> I also have one of these, which I personally think sounds a hint better. Noticeable at higher volumes. The high treble region is slightly rolled off and can take the edge off of very bright IEMs. But the visual quality is kind of disappointing when looking at it very closely. Mine looks like they didn't wipe glue used to seal gaps in the black rubber and gold plated metal.


I've been using a Black Dragon adapter cable from Moon Audio, but I like the idea of a one piece adapter....   Ah, well, I don't listen to IEMs much anymore because of a tragus piercing so I guess I don't need to buy something else.  

I was playing around with the Massdrop x Senn HD6XX yesterday (which I bought a few years ago, listened to for an hour and put back in the box) as a co-worker is thinking about buying them, and they pair well with the MHA200!  Generally I find them too bass heavy and the vocals recessed, but the MHA200 'fixed' the lacking mids.


----------



## funkur

TSAVJason said:


> I haven’t opened up a chassis to check but I am not aware of an internal fuse.


It’s a 125mA small slow blow fuse (no wonder they went C7 - this thing takes no juice at all).


----------



## Lépine (Jul 10, 2021)

doggiemom said:


> I've been using a Black Dragon adapter cable from Moon Audio, but I like the idea of a one piece adapter....   Ah, well, I don't listen to IEMs much anymore because of a tragus piercing so I guess I don't need to buy something else.
> 
> I was playing around with the Massdrop x Senn HD6XX yesterday (which I bought a few years ago, listened to for an hour and put back in the box) as a co-worker is thinking about buying them, and they pair well with the MHA200!  Generally I find them too bass heavy and the vocals recessed, but the MHA200 'fixed' the lacking mids.


The MHA200 is great with IEMs. Very faint to no hum, hiss, or buzz from internal circuit noise detected with very sensitive IEMs. All the great Mcintosh sound signature comes through!


----------



## Crowbar44

21qz said:


> Second paragraph I’m just asking for recommendations for a dac/amp aio when NOT using the mha200 through my computer.


Extremely happy with my Bifrost 2 and the MHA200.  I'm partial to that MB "sparkle" which I feel pairs well with the MHA200.  Running balanced outs from the Bifrost, but didn't detect any meaningful difference between SE and balanced outs...

Others seem happy with the Chord Qutest - but that's SE outs only, I haven't heard the Qutest.

If I were going to do it again, I might consider finding a high end MB DAC with a volume control/remote, as I'm becoming a touch miffed by the lack of fine control with the MHA200 volume knob...


----------



## ThanatosVI

Crowbar44 said:


> If I were going to do it again, I might consider finding a high end MB DAC with a volume control/remote, as I'm becoming a touch miffed by the lack of fine control with the MHA200 volume knob...


I can recommend the Rockna Wavelight in that category. 
Not sure if it is out of budget, but you said high end so I recommended it anyways


----------



## Lépine (Jul 10, 2021)

Chord Hugo2 and MHA200 sounds fantastic with Kimber Kable Timbre interconnects single ended.  I believe the Chord Qutest will also sound fantastic.

I use the Hugo2 with TOSLINK for using DAP as a source.


----------



## Lépine

funkur said:


> It’s a 125mA small slow blow fuse (no wonder they went C7 - this thing takes no juice at all).


Are you planning to try different fuses to improve the sound?


----------



## Lépine (Jul 10, 2021)

Comparing  Kimber Hero copper XLR interconnects vs Kimber copper Timbre interconnects, the XLR output vs RCA from the Hugo TT2 doesn't change tonality, but resolution goes up a slight bit and dynamics improves enough that it has a firm slam with XLR. I will never run single ended again.


----------



## funkur

Lépine said:


> Are you planning to try different fuses to improve the sound?


PM sent


----------



## Lépine (Jul 12, 2021)

u2u2 said:


> To get the ball rolling:
> You could grab a MOJO and use a spare iPhone (or other) to stream through it or use as storage/playback... Within budget and the MOJO sounds great into the MHA RCA input, very flexible for bit rates, has fixed line out, or use the volume control.







Mojo with MHA200 delivers quite a surprisingly good performance once Mojo case is scorching hot. It really doesn't give up much to it's bigger Chord brothers. In a blind A/B test it might be hard to tell which is the more expensive Chord setup. There is a difference in sound stage, but otherwise family resemblance is strong. I don't think the Mojo images as well as the Hugos or maybe the RCA adapter is killing the spatial information?

The 64 Audio U12t sounds absolutely amazing on the MHA200. Really recommend trying this IEM with it.

Update: I did get a thermal shutdown, was fun listening until that happened 😊


----------



## meomap

Lépine said:


> This delivers quite a surprisingly good performance once it's case is scorching hot. It really doesn't give up much to it's bigger Chord brothers. In a blind A/B test it might be hard to tell which is the more expensive Chord setup. There is a difference in sound stage, but otherwise family resemblance is strong. I don't think the Mojo images as well as the Hugos or maybe the RCA adapter is killing the spacial information?
> 
> The 64 Audio U12t sounds absolutely amazing on the MHA200. Really recommend trying this IEM with it.
> 
> Update: I did get a thermal shutdown, was fun listening until that happened 😊


Thermal Shutdown from MHA200?
How?


----------



## Lépine (Jul 12, 2021)

meomap said:


> Thermal Shutdown from MHA200?
> How?


No, the Mojo. These are notorious for getting too hot if you drive them hard and charge at the same time. They are like sports cars, if you baby them, they're not much fun.


----------



## u2u2

I have the first MOJO to hit my local shop from back in November 2015. Haven't had it overheat but it gets warm in desktop use. I set the MHA at unity and listen about 12 steps down from the line output setting on the MOJO. The MOJO is not as good as the Qutest paired with the MHA. But it is more enjoyable on some tracks as the Qutest/MHA combo can get harsh, as in too resolving and bright. 

Interestingly, to my ear, the WDS-1 running balanced, is indistinguishable from the Qutest. My spouse, with less abused ears, only picked up on the slightest of differences... so small as to defy meaningful comment.

The MOJO or WDS-1 pair nicely with the MHA200 and eliminate any volume control issues. The WDS-1 gives Qutest level performance if run balanced. Fine design by Jack Woo given it is almost a decade old...


----------



## TSAVJason




----------



## u2u2

Needing some MHA200 help...

In post 178 of this thread I posted a shot of my front power tube red plating on the front plate. The other plate and other tubes were fine. This happened a few times and the amp was exchanged for another by the dealer... 
A week later and the front plate of the front power tube red plates like the first amp did. I contacted McIntosh and their role was to have a tech from the selling dealer call me. Problem is they can't deal with tubes, haven't had tube testing equipment for decades, and aren't an authorized service center. They tried to replicate the problem on their amp in the shop but no luck. The local authorized services centres McIntosh lists on line are all defunct.... long gone.
Next day the back plate of the front power tube red plates.
So, McIntosh hasn't confirmed or denied there is an issue... the dealer seems to be at a dead end, and I have a second amp acting unlike any I have owned.

For the collective of owners:

a) Is this amp normal? Accept it as is, move on and just listen to the music, maybe put the cage on so I don't easily see when it red plates?
b) Running it in the "unity" position is a fools game. Need to push it harder and get all the plates to turn red?
c) It is a McIntosh so I need a McIntosh pre amp/DAC, using a Woo Audio DAC or Chords MOJO and Qutest are below it?
d) Stick to my Woo WA22 and WA6 with my dozens of tubes and be content to continue tube rolling. Not bright enough to care for and operate a McIntosh amp?
e) Other? 

Love to hear any thoughts.

The new amp. A dullard compared to the first but still too much attitude.


----------



## TSAVJason

u2u2 said:


> Needing some MHA200 help...
> 
> In post 178 of this thread I posted a shot of my front power tube red plating on the front plate. The other plate and other tubes were fine. This happened a few times and the amp was exchanged for another by the dealer...
> A week later and the front plate of the front power tube red plates like the first amp did. I contacted McIntosh and their role was to have a tech from the selling dealer call me. Problem is they can't deal with tubes, haven't had tube testing equipment for decades, and aren't an authorized service center. They tried to replicate the problem on their amp in the shop but no luck. The local authorized services centres McIntosh lists on line are all defunct.... long gone.
> ...


It’s a fair question about the tube. Typically it could mean but not necessarily that the tube is going to have a shorter life. Being that you’ve changed the tube it could indicate a problem with the unit itself.

I might suggest you jump on our zoom meeting this Saturday and ask Ken his thoughts on this topic.


----------



## JayF

I've had mine for nearly a month now and definitely not an issue with mine. I've also rolled tubes and have gone back and forth and never experienced this issue. Using a Musical Fidelity dac which send to be a great pairing, and negates the issue people seen to have with the unity setting.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Such causes are often difficult to find out.
Ideally, even if it takes longer, contact Macintosh afterwards and send the defective device directly to them without any detours.

If you live in the USA, this may be less of a problem than non-US citizens.

If your dealer hasn't shipped your first unit yet, you could look on the tubes for the lot number and compare it to your current one.
It is possible that the cause is coming from the tubes that may have a quailty problem, which I understand are Russian tubes labelled for Macintosh.

Purely as a cause study, you could try buying a set of tubes from another manufacturer that is cheap and give that a try.
Then you could rule out whether it is coming from the unit or from the tubes.

If they would glow again, it is the device, if it is quiet and everything is fine, you can assume that it is the tubes that Macintosh uses.
If the problem is with the unit, there is nothing you can do and Macintosh will have to take action.
If the tubes remain stable, you can roll on better ones.

Replacing the tubes should not affect the warranty as long as the same tube family is used.
But you can certainly check with Macintosh support beforehand.

That would be my spontaneous idea as a non-Mha 200 user but interested in this thread.

A brief comment on the tubes: The possible quality problems will probably only become noticeable during use.
The measured values can all be fantastic beforehand.
Again, it would be wise to contact Macintosh and share your findings so that they can take action in this regard.


----------



## Herr Korven

I had a 12BH7 tube go bad within a month. I think this worked out in my favor though, as I took it as an excuse to tube roll a little. I replaced the stock 12BH7 tubes with slightly taller Electro Harmonix 12BH7. To my ears it feels like it lost the shrillness at the highend on cymbals and voices, quite happy with that. Though it could just be in my head . Still waiting on some matched Mullard 12AT7 tubes though.


----------



## u2u2

TSAVJason said:


> It’s a fair question about the tube. Typically it could mean but not necessarily that the tube is going to have a shorter life. Being that you’ve changed the tube it could indicate a problem with the unit itself.
> 
> I might suggest you jump on our zoom meeting this Saturday and ask Ken his thoughts on this topic.


Thanks Jason. It is comforting that someone with your experience frames it as you have.

Actually the dealer exchanged the original unit and therefor all the tubes as well! Just happened to be the same red plating on the same tube location on the replacement amp. 

Scouring various forums suggests maybe a half dozen tube problems posted and all are power tubes. No big failures. Gotta feel for McIntosh and the dealers who catch the fallout from parts supplier issues none the less. The people at my dealer are great but have very limited resources. 

Unless God or war interfere I will be listening in on Zoom and thank you very much for organizing it. Won't jump in on the tube issue though. Confident that between you and Ken the needs of your customer base will be met. I will continue to follow the McIntosh warranty terms and process as I actively prepare for becoming self reliant.


----------



## u2u2

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> Such causes are often difficult to find out.
> Ideally, even if it takes longer, contact Macintosh afterwards and send the defective device directly to them without any detours.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your post. Several excellent points. 

I live north of the States which is much of what has made addressing the problem difficult. That and the very rigid McIntosh warranty terms. Those terms tie my hands for self help, and the dealers as well, unless they are an "authorized service centre", which they are not. There are none of those around these parts. 
I can't fault McIntosh for that as the reality is tube lovers are trying to live in a bygone era. Can't stop time and technicians growing old, retiring, expiring... 

Not hard to understand why the warranty is written as it is as well. Does leave one living away from service centres needing some latitude or good will. Time will tell if that courtesy gets extended. 

To get the most out of the amp and remove every possible issue I am in the process of upgrading every cable in my system. Already using a newly upgraded DAC and headphones in rotation with older gear, have a McIntosh pre amp on order (delivery date passed & delayed due to supply constraints). Spare driver tubes are on hand and power tubes on order...

The MHA200 really is a fantastic amp and, in my view, a solid value. If only the dealer or I were allowed to swap the suspect tube(s) without voiding the warranty...

Better I have a McIntosh with a warranty??? than no McIntosh at all


----------



## TSAVJason

u2u2 said:


> Thank you for your post. Several excellent points.
> 
> I live north of the States which is much of what has made addressing the problem difficult. That and the very rigid McIntosh warranty terms. Those terms tie my hands for self help, and the dealers as well, unless they are an "authorized service centre", which they are not. There are none of those around these parts.
> I can't fault McIntosh for that as the reality is tube lovers are trying to live in a bygone era. Can't stop time and technicians growing old, retiring, expiring...
> ...


Your dealer can swap tubes without voiding the warranty. It’s allowed that you the consumer can swap tubes without voiding the warranty. The MHA200 is quite friendly when tube rolling also. There are no restrictions on changing out the tubes as long as you stay within operational parameters. Of course changing tubes to alternate brands can and likely will change the sound of the MHA200.
As for service, you are welcome to tell me where you are and I’ll respond with your most local service center.
Good luck!


----------



## hodgjy

u2u2 said:


> Needing some MHA200 help...
> 
> In post 178 of this thread I posted a shot of my front power tube red plating on the front plate. The other plate and other tubes were fine. This happened a few times and the amp was exchanged for another by the dealer...
> A week later and the front plate of the front power tube red plates like the first amp did. I contacted McIntosh and their role was to have a tech from the selling dealer call me. Problem is they can't deal with tubes, haven't had tube testing equipment for decades, and aren't an authorized service center. They tried to replicate the problem on their amp in the shop but no luck. The local authorized services centres McIntosh lists on line are all defunct.... long gone.
> ...


Red plating is usually caused by improper biasing, resulting in improper voltage at the control grid. I don't know the circuit design of this amp, but I'm guessing it's self-biasing. In this case, it's malfunctioning, either from a bad batch of parts or improper design because it's now happened on two amps. Red plating is not often caused by bad tubes. If you have to bias it yourself, turn down the draw on the anode.

I would definitely not use the amp until it is repaired or replaced. Also, if the tube experienced red plating, it's no longer a tube you should use


----------



## TSAVJason

u2u2 said:


> Thanks Jason. It is comforting that someone with your experience frames it as you have.
> 
> Actually the dealer exchanged the original unit and therefor all the tubes as well! Just happened to be the same red plating on the same tube location on the replacement amp.
> 
> ...


I’d interject that McIntosh doesn’t really want you to be fully self reliant. In fact they want their dealers to take prompt and considerate care of all McIntosh owners. It’s been that way since the 90’s.
Happy to hear you’ll be joining in on our zoom meeting and don’t be shy about asking questions or policies. Sharing experiences is how we make things more fun and audio should be fun IMO


----------



## u2u2

TSAVJason said:


> Your dealer can swap tubes without voiding the warranty. It’s allowed that you the consumer can swap tubes without voiding the warranty. The MHA200 is quite friendly when tube rolling also. There are no restrictions on changing out the tubes as long as you stay within operational parameters. Of course changing tubes to alternate brands can and likely will change the sound of the MHA200.
> As for service, you are welcome to tell me where you are and I’ll respond with your most local service center.
> Good luck!


Rereading the warranty, additional operation information guide, and owners manual, I see where you are coming from. There is wiggle room and weasel words but good will, or common sense, should carry the day if assigning blame for a fault becomes necessary. I have been reading a lot on the C8 Pre Amp as I have one on order. It explicitly states, in the owners manual, "The C8 has no user serviceable parts, including the tubes. If repairs are needed they must be performed by an authorized McIntosh Service Agency." My bad, for sure... yet McIntosh and the dealer opted not to try what seems to be a starting point, switch tube positions and see if the problem follows, or change the tubes out for a new set. I will switch them up position wise to give McIntosh and the dealer another data point.

Located in Toronto, Ontario. McIntosh lists two authorized service agencies on their web search feature. One on Bathurst St, in Toronto, one on Bayview Ave, in Richmond Hill. Neither exists anymore. The first has a phone number to a private chap, the second to an audio dealer, including McIntosh, of many years, in a different community, but they are seemingly only in the sales & installation end... Nearest listed authorized service agency is 4.5 hours away in Ottawa. (They have a web presence and appear to be a generalist TV radio repair place so at least they are still around.) Pointed this out to McIntosh as part of seeking help and the response was, to be polite, silence.

Thanks again.


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## hodgjy

u2u2 said:


> Rereading the warranty, additional operation information guide, and owners manual, I see where you are coming from. There is wiggle room and weasel words but good will, or common sense, should carry the day if assigning blame for a fault becomes necessary. I have been reading a lot on the C8 Pre Amp as I have one on order. It explicitly states, in the owners manual, "The C8 has no user serviceable parts, including the tubes. If repairs are needed they must be performed by an authorized McIntosh Service Agency." My bad, for sure... yet McIntosh and the dealer opted not to try what seems to be a starting point, switch tube positions and see if the problem follows, or change the tubes out for a new set. I will switch them up position wise to give McIntosh and the dealer another data point.
> 
> Located in Toronto, Ontario. McIntosh lists two authorized service agencies on their web search feature. One on Bathurst St, in Toronto, one on Bayview Ave, in Richmond Hill. Neither exists anymore. The first has a phone number to a private chap, the second to an audio dealer, including McIntosh, of many years, in a different community, but they are seemingly only in the sales & installation end... Nearest listed authorized service agency is 4.5 hours away in Ottawa. (They have a web presence and appear to be a generalist TV radio repair place so at least they are still around.) Pointed this out to McIntosh as part of seeking help and the response was, to be polite, silence.
> 
> Thanks again.


As I stated earlier, it’s not the tubes. It’s the biasing of the amp not working properly. The problem will not be corrected by swapping tubes.


----------



## u2u2

hodgjy said:


> Red plating is usually caused by improper biasing, resulting in improper voltage at the control grid. I don't know the circuit design of this amp, but I'm guessing it's self-biasing. In this case, it's malfunctioning, either from a bad batch of parts or improper design because it's now happened on two amps. Red plating is not often caused by bad tubes. If you have to bias it yourself, turn down the draw on the anode.
> 
> I would definitely not use the amp until it is repaired or replaced. Also, if the tube experienced red plating, it's no longer a tube you should use


Your comments, especially the last line, are totally in line with what I found when I googled the symptoms before bringing my first amp back to the dealer. Yet here I sit with the second amp demonstrating the same issue. I sent McIntosh a photo ( they allow only one) and a redacted written submission (they allow 2,000 characters...) and got to speak with the dealer technician. No further action so far and no suggestion to cease using the amp. Could be there is action going on between McIntosh and the dealer. Played some phone tag so I will be going into town for an in person dealer followup next week. They are very decent folks. Maybe because it is intermittent and not a hard fault it does not get considered as red plating?


----------



## u2u2

hodgjy said:


> As I stated earlier, it’s not the tubes. It’s the biasing of the amp not working properly. The problem will not be corrected by swapping tubes.


You posted while I was Slooow typing. To think, had I run it with the cage on I may never had noticed, at least until it went Chernobyl... assuming it would!


----------



## hodgjy

u2u2 said:


> You posted while I was Slooow typing. To think, had I run it with the cage on I may never had noticed, at least until it went Chernobyl... assuming it would!


The fact that they have been silent is concerning, and it could be due to a few possibilities. At the end of the day, McIntosh is a very reputable company and they will eventually rectify your situation. New models can have some growing pains when they go from bench model to full production runs. And, the old adage says that no information is better than bad information.


----------



## TSAVJason

u2u2 said:


> Rereading the warranty, additional operation information guide, and owners manual, I see where you are coming from. There is wiggle room and weasel words but good will, or common sense, should carry the day if assigning blame for a fault becomes necessary. I have been reading a lot on the C8 Pre Amp as I have one on order. It explicitly states, in the owners manual, "The C8 has no user serviceable parts, including the tubes. If repairs are needed they must be performed by an authorized McIntosh Service Agency." My bad, for sure... yet McIntosh and the dealer opted not to try what seems to be a starting point, switch tube positions and see if the problem follows, or change the tubes out for a new set. I will switch them up position wise to give McIntosh and the dealer another data point.
> 
> Located in Toronto, Ontario. McIntosh lists two authorized service agencies on their web search feature. One on Bathurst St, in Toronto, one on Bayview Ave, in Richmond Hill. Neither exists anymore. The first has a phone number to a private chap, the second to an audio dealer, including McIntosh, of many years, in a different community, but they are seemingly only in the sales & installation end... Nearest listed authorized service agency is 4.5 hours away in Ottawa. (They have a web presence and appear to be a generalist TV radio repair place so at least they are still around.) Pointed this out to McIntosh as part of seeking help and the response was, to be polite, silence.
> 
> Thanks again.


C8 is a different animal. McIntosh knows that pieces like the MC275, MC1502 to name a couple are going to experience tube rolling buyers. It’s accepted and not penalized unless you physically change something besides the tubes. So it’s not a weasel thing at all.
In the MHA200 world, we have sold over 40 by now they’ve only built 80 so far for the global markets. We still have 11 in stock. We have only seen one that was of concern. You can be assured they take note and address all customer concerns. Especially on a new product. Their customer care is particularly good.


----------



## TSAVJason

hodgjy said:


> The fact that they have been silent is concerning, and it could be due to a few possibilities. At the end of the day, McIntosh is a very reputable company and they will eventually rectify your situation. New models can have some growing pains when they go from bench model to full production runs. And, the old adage says that no information is better than bad information.


It’s not concerning at all. To be silent only means they haven’t made a determination or don’t have a prompt response like lack of inventory to replace the unit immediately and want the dealer to be the interface.


----------



## u2u2

TSAVJason said:


> C8 is a different animal. McIntosh knows that pieces like the MC275, MC1502 to name a couple are going to experience tube rolling buyers. It’s accepted and not penalized unless you physically change something besides the tubes. So it’s not a weasel thing at all.
> In the MHA200 world, we have sold over 40 by now they’ve only built 80 so far for the global markets. We still have 11 in stock. We have only seen one that was of concern. You can be assured they take note and address all customer concerns. Especially on a new product. Their customer care is particularly good.


Apologies, didn't use weasel words to be disparaging. Situational and usually used in jest up here, at least in my experience. 

Reality is the amp sounds great and runs normal 99% of the time. It  will get worked out. I estimate it has between 70 and 80 hours on it now. Just pulled the power tubes, gave the pins a light cleaning with Deoxit and switched their positions. Had some minor intermittent static on the left channel before so waiting to see if it reappears and where. A normal tube item.


----------



## TSAVJason

u2u2 said:


> Apologies, didn't use weasel words to be disparaging. Situational and usually used in jest up here, at least in my experience.
> 
> Reality is the amp sounds great and runs normal 99% of the time. It  will get worked out. I estimate it has between 70 and 80 hours on it now. Just pulled the power tubes, gave the pins a light cleaning with Deoxit and switched their positions. Had some minor intermittent static on the left channel before so waiting to see if it reappears and where. A normal tube item



no apologies required 🍻


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## u2u2

I have been keeping the local courier companies in business supporting my MHA200 efforts. Deliveries from five shops coming together from the west coast almost all the way to the east. No one has any depth in their inventory so no one stop shopping. My three sources and two DACs are now sporting new connections, spare driver tubes ready if needed, power tubes are in the hands of the courier who just rescheduled deliver from Monday morning to by end of day Tuesday? Tubes made it to the local despatch point for the final drive home. Amp running perfect today but for a couple of brief moments of scratchiness on the right channel… then the dreaded red plating resumed… on the right channel. Both potential tube issues followed the tube from left to right when I switched their positions. Hope this helps the shop with diagnostics.

Shots of my first venture into Audioquest kit and my power tubes that will see power no more…


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## hodgjy

u2u2 said:


> Amp running perfect today but for a couple of brief moments of scratchiness on the right channel… then the dreaded red plating resumed… on the right channel. Both potential tube issues followed the tube from left to right when I switched their positions. Hope this helps the shop with diagnostics.
> 
> Shots of my first venture into Audioquest kit and my power tubes that will see power no more…


It still doesn't confirm the issue has to be 100% the specific tube. It could still be possible that the amp cannot correctly bias that particular tube for whatever reason. Maybe something to do with overlapping ranges of tolerances.


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## u2u2

hodgjy said:


> It still doesn't confirm the issue has to be 100% the specific tube. It could still be possible that the amp cannot correctly bias that particular tube for whatever reason. Maybe something to do with overlapping ranges of tolerances.


Can not disagree but it gives something to go back to the McIntosh folks with. A glimmer of hope for now. 
I don’t intend on using the McIntosh amp anymore. Going to box it up, get it out of sight, and put my WA6 back in its old position. 
Two McIntosh amps down in less than 18 days but no collateral damage. I want to protect my peripheral kit and spares moving forward.
Have switched back to my faithful WA22 as my main device. The 6 and 22 are bullet proof and have provided endless hours of joy. 
I am disappointed but can’t claim to be hurting from my McIntosh venture although my wallet says otherwise.
Thanks for your thoughts.


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## meomap

I guess I need to hold on this purchase until McIntosh fix this Sxxt permanently. 
Being McIntosh faithful......
Still have Mc275 V, MA6300 Integrated, MS300 in my household. Never heard of problem like this before.....
Well, need to clean the dust of WA6SE and test in my newer bedroom setup with Utopia and HE1000SE.......
And WAIT.........


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## TSAVJason

We are on the MHA200 zoom meeting 

https://thesourceav.us9.list-manage...68299f9363056a3477&id=c120f0b743&e=2d88e688cf


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## u2u2

TSAVJason said:


> We are on the MHA200 zoom meeting
> 
> https://thesourceav.us9.list-manage...68299f9363056a3477&id=c120f0b743&e=2d88e688cf


Very informative and enjoyable. Thank you for efforts on Zoom (On Head-Fi as well!).


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## u2u2

meomap said:


> I guess I need to hold on this purchase until McIntosh fix this Sxxt permanently.
> Being McIntosh faithful......
> Still have Mc275 V, MA6300 Integrated, MS300 in my household. Never heard of problem like this before.....
> Well, need to clean the dust of WA6SE and test in my newer bedroom setup with Utopia and HE1000SE.......
> And WAIT.........


It relates to tubes they don’t use a lot of as far as I know. I am betting it comes down to a couple of bad tubes… If you get on the wait list this will all be sorted out way before you take delivery. If anything beyond that is involved it won’t take all that much longer. This amp makes beautiful music. I am confident enough to keep my C8 pre amp on order and, praying my wife doesn’t see this, considering a future bigger tube amp & speakers from McIntosh. So, if the Sxxt you refer to is from my posts, please don’t let if affect your decisions. I just post to share and learn. Lots of no issue MHA220 are out there.


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## TSAVJason

u2u2 said:


> It relates to tubes they don’t use a lot of as far as I know. I am betting it comes down to a couple of bad tubes… If you get on the wait list this will all be sorted out way before you take delivery. If anything beyond that is involved it won’t take all that much longer. This amp makes beautiful music. I am confident enough to keep my C8 pre amp on order and, praying my wife doesn’t see this, considering a future bigger tube amp & speakers from McIntosh. So, if the Sxxt you refer to is from my posts, please don’t let if affect your decisions. I just post to share and learn. Lots of no issue MHA220 are out there.


Just curious, is it the same cans each time this happens? Same source?


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## Deleeh

You have made a wise decision, even though it may be painful, bitter and annoying.
It is normal that something can happen, but for the second unit everything should be tip-top.
It is still annoying when you spend so much money and expect something big and smaller manufacturers get it better for much less money.

It is not necessarily a tip, but rather an advice.
Personally, I never buy a new project that has just appeared on the market.
Especially in the changing industry, more mistakes happen now than in the past.
That's why I wait at least 6 months, better 9 months.
It's not your fault, it's the fault of the manufacturers, big or small.
This shows that there is a quality problem somewhere in the chain.
That happens a lot and often at the moment.
Even if many have lost their rhythm because of Corona or even people who were good and capable.
In the end, the manufacturer harms itself and the management is often not aware of this.
You can't always compensate and expect one man to do three jobs at the same time.
This calculation simply doesn't work out at some point.

Also consider that the problem you had may have happened to others and may have been treated differently, probably more silently.

Be glad that you can go back to the original equipment, not all of them can.


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## u2u2

TSAVJason said:


> Just curious, is it the same cans each time this happens? Same source?


Nope.
Last time it was a Woo Audio WDS-1 DAC running balanced input to a set of Sennheiser HD820 on 4 pin XLR out.
Time before was a Chord Qutest set to 1 volt output to a Schiit passive pre amp to the unbalanced input. Output was to a pair of Sony MDRZ7 on the SE output. 
I mix it up pretty good and think it also happened with my HD800 on SE as well… but it might have been my Focal Elears on SE.
Ran a few hours with a MOJO, no issues. 
Also a few hours on Shure SE846 but they were shrill, a poor pairing between them, the Qutest, and MHA. Tubes were fine.
Only started keeping a log on this for the last two instances and I switch around a lot but that is all my main gear.


----------



## u2u2

Deleeh said:


> You have made a wise decision, even though it may be painful, bitter and annoying.
> It is normal that something can happen, but for the second unit everything should be tip-top.
> It is still annoying when you spend so much money and expect something big and smaller manufacturers get it better for much less money.
> 
> ...


Trying to view this as a McIntosh operational pause.
Been burned many times with new model cars, motorcycles, and electronics. Your points are sound.
Common theme - a manufacture comes up with a match to my concept of a near ideal product but falls short in execution & delivery. 
Wanted a McIntosh headphone amp for a lot of years but the previous models did not tick the boxes the MHA200 does.
The MHA200 has the sound, the inputs, the outputs, flexibility, size, appearance, AND TUBES… a must for me. I had a lot of trouble over the volume & “unity” concept but I get it now, well more like surrendered to it as the amp really is good and giving in to the McIntosh way isn’t so bad. 
Given some time I believe McIntosh will deliver with the MHA200.
We are fortunate to be able to enjoy this hobby and all the more so with high end equipment. If I had to spin off my Woo gear the McIntosh never would have happened. Very special to me, as I hope the MHA200 will be in time. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.


----------



## TSAVJason

u2u2 said:


> Trying to view this as a McIntosh operational pause.
> Been burned many times with new model cars, motorcycles, and electronics. Your points are sound.
> Common theme - a manufacture comes up with a match to my concept of a near ideal product but falls short in execution & delivery.
> Wanted a McIntosh headphone amp for a lot of years but the previous models did not tick the boxes the MHA200 does.
> ...


Have you spoken to Chuck Hinton at McIntosh customer support?


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## u2u2

TSAVJason said:


> Have you spoken to Chuck Hinton at McIntosh customer support?


No. Think I have seen the name before but caught it in the Zoom comments for sure. Will be heading into town to see the dealer and try to meet up with sales and the technician. Update each other and see what action they propose. The weekend hasn’t helped and new pandemic regulations changed the retail picture last Friday so that may have slowed them, but in a good way, opening up to higher customer levels.  McIntosh put them in the drivers seat and with more info maybe we will get the car out of neutral back into 1st gear. They have been in the game many decades and I figure we seek the same endpoint. If it needs a push I’ve noted the name. Thanks for your support.


----------



## TSAVJason

u2u2 said:


> No. Think I have seen the name before but caught it in the Zoom comments for sure. Will be heading into town to see the dealer and try to meet up with sales and the technician. Update each other and see what action they propose. The weekend hasn’t helped and new pandemic regulations changed the retail picture last Friday so that may have slowed them, but in a good way, opening up to higher customer levels.  McIntosh put them in the drivers seat and with more info maybe we will get the car out of neutral back into 1st gear. They have been in the game many decades and I figure we seek the same endpoint. If it needs a push I’ve noted the name. Thanks for your support.


No he’s at McIntosh only. He is who you want to call. Tell him I asked you to call. He is the guy that can find the fastest resolve for you in this circumstance. If you were in the US I could help more, sorry


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## u2u2

TSAVJason said:


> No he’s at McIntosh only. He is who you want to call. Tell him I asked you to call. He is the guy that can find the fastest resolve for you in this circumstance. If you were in the US I could help more, sorry


Got it. Was just going to continue normal channels and see my dealers people again before going in heavy. Couple more days max. I am lucky as I have other amps I can enjoy while this gets sorted.  Once things are resolved I will post again. Till then the amp is boxed up and ready to ship out for service on a moments notice.

You have been very helpful on several levels. I truly appreciate what you bring to this community. We are a fortunate lot.


----------



## TSAVJason

u2u2 said:


> Got it. Was just going to continue normal channels and see my dealers people again before going in heavy. Couple more days max. I am lucky as I have other amps I can enjoy while this gets sorted.  Once things are resolved I will post again. Till then the amp is boxed up and ready to ship out for service on a moments notice.
> 
> You have been very helpful on several levels. I truly appreciate what you bring to this community. We are a fortunate lot.


Not about heavy. It’s about service and getting what you deserve. It shouldn’t be an issue for your dealer at all, in fact he should be happy


----------



## Barnstormer13 (Jul 17, 2021)

21qz said:


> Hi all, should have the MHA200 sometime next week (crossing my fingers). Looking for a dac or dac/amp combo to pair with it. For stand alone DAC right now it looks like a) topping d90se b) smsl vmv d1se. Budget $1000. Running as desktop setup. Any thoughts, experiences, or suggestions?
> 
> I don’t want to run the PC>DAC>MHA200 all the time, so looking for a dedicated amp that is mid to high tier. Don’t care too much about wireless features.
> In the “No budget” world I’d be interested in the matrix element x or comparable. Open to recommendations!


Personally I’m partial to Schiit’s multibit DACs. Their amps are decent for the price but their multibit DACs are showstoppers.  Bifrost 2 is outstanding for the price, even at $700. If you’re currently using your PC as your DAC, the difference will be quite noticeable.


----------



## Exer

I had a power tube go as well, which represented as occasional static on one side, that switched sides when swapping the power tubes. It's possible that the initial units got a run of tubes with some QC issues. Everything was back to perfect after replacing the tubes, and support from McIntosh was great. They were happy to have the support person replace, but frankly that felt like a waste to me. They were supportive of replacing the tube myself; I chose to order from TheTubeStore as they are close by and overnighted the tubes.


----------



## Roasty

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/mcintosh-mha200-impressions.10721/

Does anyone here echo the last review in the link posted above? Apologies if it has been asked/posted before.


----------



## Exer

Roasty said:


> https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/mcintosh-mha200-impressions.10721/
> 
> Does anyone here echo the last review in the link posted above? Apologies if it has been asked/posted before.


I noted that I could see pairing the MHA200 with a headphone that leaned sibilant could potentially need a warmer tube pairing. Ultimately it appears to me that the poster was looking for the typical lushness, warmth, and smoothness from a 'tube amp'. The MHA200 isn't that, so I can understand the disappointment if that was the expectation. 

The one space that I can't fathom is the comment around sound staging. Reviews and experiences noted by owners have been pretty consistent around the aptitude of the MHA200 with sound staging.


----------



## u2u2

Exer said:


> I had a power tube go as well, which represented as occasional static on one side, that switched sides when swapping the power tubes. It's possible that the initial units got a run of tubes with some QC issues. Everything was back to perfect after replacing the tubes, and support from McIntosh was great. They were happy to have the support person replace, but frankly that felt like a waste to me. They were supportive of replacing the tube myself; I chose to order from TheTubeStore as they are close by and overnighted the tubes.


I have power tubes on the way from TheTubeStore. Paid for overnight. Were supposed to arrive this morning but UPS has bumped them a day even though they arrived in Concord Friday. Tracking glitch I hope. If you are in the T O area still, dare I ask if your unit is from BBR? If it is that means their entire stock had power tube issues.


----------



## Newsee

Exer said:


> I can't comment on pairing with the Diana V2 specifically, but I would be shocked if it was underpowered. Abyss commented in a recent video about the power output of the Eleven Audio Formula S around 1W with the 1266, and being among their favorite amps for it.
> 
> At the matched gain setting for my Empyrean, volume becomes uncomfortably loud well before the 1pm position on my MHA200, and needs to be raised carefully. It has the authority that one expects from a top-tier tube amp, while avoiding the overly warm presentation that many tube amps succumb to. I found detail retrieval improved with the Empyreans with the stock tubes, and found the recommended tube pairing from Positive Feedback (Mullard CV4024) a bit too dark. That said, I could see the pairing work well with headphones that leaned towards sibilant.
> 
> Happy to answer questions on the amp, though admittedly my feedback is limited as I'm a one headphone person. Current setup is Lumin U1 Mini -> Hugo 2 -> MHA200 -> Meze Empyrean.


How do you like it with the Empyrean? What does the MHA200 changes compared to the direct out of Hugo 2?


----------



## Exer

u2u2 said:


> I have power tubes on the way from TheTubeStore. Paid for overnight. Were supposed to arrive this morning but UPS has bumped them a day even though they arrived in Concord Friday. Tracking glitch I hope. If you are in the T O area still, dare I ask if your unit is from BBR? If it is that means their entire stock had power tube issues.


Got mine from Executive Stereo.


----------



## Exer

Newsee said:


> How do you like it with the Empyrean? What does the MHA200 changes compared to the direct out of Hugo 2?


Relative to direct with Hugo 2: More weight, especially noticeable in bass regions. Better sense of singer and instrument placing in space. More euphoric in mids. Maintains both the toe-tapping nature and detail retrieval endemic in the Hugo 2.

My earlier setup was a Beyerdynamic T1 (1st gen) powered by a Woo Audio WA2. On this path I wanted to try the opposite side of the spectrum, a generalist setup that would sound good with all genres with a focus on engagement over incisive detail, and something that would be friendlier with poorer recordings. I *love *the Hugo 2, and at the time of purchase, less expensive amplifier options that would increase its performance were few and far between. 

Nowadays I'd recommend anyone with a Hugo 2 experiment with amp pairings, as we have been fortunate to get some really great inexpensive options. The Drop 789 is very cheap and improves performance over the built-in amp in my opinion, though it may exacerbate the notion some have of the Hugo 2 being clinical. My favorite less expensive amp was the Rupert Neve RNHP, and found it to be a better pairing than the Bryston BHA-1 for the Empyreans. 

I may try the Denafrips Pontus II in the coming months (again in the pursuit of engagement and musical envelopment), but don't plan to sell the Hugo 2 -- it's simply too good and versatile.


----------



## hodgjy

Roasty said:


> https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/mcintosh-mha200-impressions.10721/
> 
> Does anyone here echo the last review in the link posted above? Apologies if it has been asked/posted before.


Members of that forum, in general, prefer warmish sound signatures. For example, the HD 650 is widely owned and used, and often serves as a point of reference for comparing all other headphones. So, if the McIntosh leans neutral to cool, it's expected it won't be highly regarded.


----------



## rreynolds

Crowbar44 said:


> So...many thanks to TSAVJason and Moderator Supreme warrenpchi... got this beast today...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've been living with the MHA200 for about 2 months now, it's by far the nicest amp I've used. Recently upgraded my Denafrips Ares II up to a Pontus II and the character of the amp really woke up. 
Bass: Deep, responsive, and engaging. Drums and bass guitar are incredibly defined and have audible shape. 
Mids: Gravy, just gravy. 
Highs: Vocals are upfront and personal, details like breathing, lips opening, (even teeth touching). Even with the volume knob cranked, fatigue has never been an issue. 
My main headphones are the Hifiman HE-1000 V1.


----------



## u2u2

Exer said:


> Got mine from Executive Stereo.


Thanks for the info. Good people there and way more conveniently located than BBR from where I am now. I gave them consideration but I am burdened by a history with BBR going back to the late 1960s. Got a Grundig Satellit from BBR that was crazy amazing and so complex that only the Germans would dare build it. $500 in the day, equal to, what, $4,000 today... Never had an item from them need service!

Glad you had a smooth transition to replacement tubes. I have been back in touch with McIntosh on mine but no response so far. Spent hours on the road today to the dealer and the "locations" of the two authored service centres. 

Zero support for the customer touching the tubes... The HORROR, The HORROR... Think Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now. 
The shop won't touch them either. Warranty coverage, if any extended, through service agency only. Liability issues as a reasoning.

That said the technician was absolutely certain the only issue with mine is the power tube. Zero chance anything else is wrong.

Learned a little about the authorized service centres and then visited both GTA addresses... Need to revisit one off shoot address to learn some more. These are what might be called "ghost operations". 

Our experiences could not be further apart and in the same market area! 

Enjoy your music.


----------



## TSAVJason

rreynolds said:


> I've been living with the MHA200 for about 2 months now, it's by far the nicest amp I've used. Recently upgraded my Denafrips Ares II up to a Pontus II and the character of the amp really woke up.
> Bass: Deep, responsive, and engaging. Drums and bass guitar are incredibly defined and have audible shape.
> Mids: Gravy, just gravy.
> Highs: Vocals are upfront and personal, details like breathing, lips opening, (even teeth touching). Even with the volume knob cranked, fatigue has never been an issue.
> My main headphones are the Hifiman HE-1000 V1.


Yes! Those McIntosh Mids are amazing. Congratulations!


----------



## Crowbar44

TSAVJason said:


>


So I had to miss the Zoom - can anyone who was on report what was discussed?  It would be fantastic if they could post a video link (or transcript)...


----------



## u2u2

Early yesterday evening I gave up on my power tube shipment arriving. The overnight delivery still showing no tracking movement since Friday evening. 
On the bright side I got a late afternoon call from my sales contact at the dealer. He is on a day off seeking further info on my boxed up MHA200 and is pursing resolution when he gets into work. A good man doing his best.

The forlorn MHA200 sits in its box as I fired up the Woo WA22. As the tubes light there is a ringing sound… 






The doorbell and a little brown truck saves the day. A quad set of matched and balanced 12BH7A tubes arrived.
An easy but slow and careful out with the old and in with the new. 

The Electro-Harmonix are like pigs wearing lipstick compared to the McIntosh power tubes. Jazzed up with thin gold lettering and plated pins but too tall and heavy looking. An effort was made but if visuals matter a marked step back from McIntosh. Butt ugly, sorry if you like them.





How do they sound? I am not skilled at audiophile type descriptions but I did my initial setup with streamed Apple Music to a Woo WDS-1 DAC, Audioquest Mackenzie balanced cables in and Sennheiser 4 pin balanced out to HD820 phones. Not a sound from the amp as the tubes warmed up. Absolute total silence. Started wondering and trying artists and tracks well off my norm. I make new discoveries this way and run into extremes that are revealing about my setup. Running the amp with the volume at unity and track to track volume adjustments with the DAC. Some tracks are too low with this method, especially ones with wider dynamic range and less compression. With unity selected and the DAC at maximum most tracks are perfect level so leaving the DAC at max and small adjustments up or down from unity works best for the total listening experience. I find myself on the edge of the detent often but it holds the desired setting so that is fine. The amp sounds good, actually very good, and I am thinking this is vastly better than my WA6 on its best tube set. I thought the MHA200 was nose to nose with my WA22 but now I am thinking it is much better. Shouldn’t be so? 

Suddenly I realize three hours have gone by, lost in exploring the music. THIS amp now sounds great and THAT is what it should do. Get you TOTALLY lost in enjoying the experience. So I switch up to Audirvana and play some favourites. Flawless, but the evening is running out. An hour with my Focal Elears on the SE jack and my favourites. Seems to have more body or depth across the mid range and the sound stage is more spacious. The Elears are at their best.

Over night I am mulling over the spare tubes I ordered as spares. Don’t want to tube roll this amp but changing out the power tubes, and the result, has broken a psychological barrier… and those butt ugly power tubes stand out too much against the pretty McIntosh branded drivers. Solution… ugly drivers, so out with the originals and in with a set of NOS Mullard CV4024. “Kevin’s Stash”. Measurement data provided shows all 4 sections measuring the same! 





Chord Qutest set to 1 volt output through a passive amp for attenuation into the unbalanced RCA and out the SE to a pair of HD800. Amp is set at unity. Positive Feedback got it right in his review. These tubes are staying in. 

No more to say on tubes. Well maybe. Buy the amp and buy some tubes with it. Done.





Audirvana is now playing “Happiness Is” 24X192 from A Boy Named Charlie Brown. Appropriate.


----------



## TSAVJason

Crowbar44 said:


> So I had to miss the Zoom - can anyone who was on report what was discussed?  It would be fantastic if they could post a video link (or transcript)...



here’s the link


----------



## Lépine (Jul 22, 2021)

Roasty said:


> https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/mcintosh-mha200-impressions.10721/
> 
> Does anyone here echo the last review in the link posted above? Apologies if it has been asked/posted before.



I am not so sure their hearing is okay or if they spent enough time to evaluate the MHA200.
I believe those people that write reviews based on sitting in a store demo room for two hours with equipment they
aren't familiar with, not using source gear that is their own and setup with cabling they don't know
using a cellphone or portable dap is not going to be very reliable.  Even a store as nice as The Source AV
is not quiet enough for me and I don't have all the cables I would want to test with to attempt to
think of an evaluation. It is great to compare and get an impression of what the equipment might be capable of
once brought home.

Some of these forums have a definite group bias to them.  I find one forum (ASR) as an example so bent on measurements 
only that what I consider lifeless gear is considered the best there is because on the scope all the measurements are 
close to theoretical ideals and it is dirt cheap. A few  forum members of Superbestaudiofriends considers HeadAmp Mk2 
to sound like sandpaper or too bright. 

I prefer to use reviews from someone listening to gear for more than a week.

S.


----------



## TSAVJason

Roasty said:


> https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/mcintosh-mha200-impressions.10721/
> 
> Does anyone here echo the last review in the link posted above? Apologies if it has been asked/posted before.


It hasn’t been asked that I recall. I suppose to some it may be bright but most of our customers have quite the opposite opinion . My hearing is still great out to 19Khz and I find it warm and open. So maybe that review is from someone that has high frequency sensitivity. I’m not a fan of bright sounding components and to my ears it’s not remotely close to bright. In fact it copies the McIntosh signature to the letter which is not a bright signature for 99% of those who’ve had a chance to listen to McIntosh products. Just like the person that posted that opinion, my comments are my opinion and I’m not saying that person it wrong. I’m saying it is not the general opinion of those that bought one or listened to one.


----------



## ttocs

Hi all.  New poster and relatively new Head-fier....

I've now had my MHA200 for a week, listening almost exclusively through my 2020 Audeze LCD2s and I can understand where someone who is used to a "tubier" sounding amp may consider the MHA200 bright.  

To me it is a super detailed and revealing amp with little or no roll off.  The end result is a top end that is bright when the source is bright , and dark when the source is dark.  No additional warmth or color added in the upper frequencies.

I can imagine if you were looking to tame some brighter headphones with a tube amp then you'd be disappointed.  I sold my DT-1990s to my brother before I picked up this amp because I couldn't handle the sound.  He has them connected to a Schiit Valhalla and really enjoys them.  I don't think the MHA200 would have helped with my opinion.

I will say that I just swapped out the stock 12AT7s for Mullards and I find the pairing to be pretty magical.  I wouldn't say it's a night and day difference, but there is a little added sweetness to the overall sound that I'm enjoying.


----------



## u2u2

Good stuff for ttocs!



So, for owners, how hot does your amp get? 

Today mine hit the highest operating temperatures yet in just over three weeks of MHA200 ownership. 
Some manufactures recommend shutting down after say 8 hours. Haven't noticed advice from McIntosh.

Any rule of thumb or heat related concerns with the MHA200?

Anyone do a precautionary shutdown when on extended listening sessions or see a need for a shutdown?

The temperatures (below) are roughly 2 degrees above the norm on all measures. Abusive?

Here is my data... Hottest spot just shy of 105 F. 


















My FLIR isn't the best so just in case:
Right side of chassis, front of transformer, chassis at front right XLR jack, left side transformer.
You can comfortably place your hand anywhere but on the tubes.


----------



## Lépine (Jul 21, 2021)

I have never taken a thermographic image of my amp, but I doubt it is very hot compared to any of my other amps.
I believe it runs on the cooler side end of the spectrum. My HeadAmp GS-X Mini set to high gain is certainly hotter.


----------



## hodgjy

The time limit that manufacturers often put on tube amps serves two purposes:
1) Prolong the life of the tube since they are a consumable. It's common for people to leave their amps on 24/7, and this will burn up the tubes in a few years or less.

2) Protect the capacitors. They have a time/temp rating.


----------



## ttocs

I’ve not taken it’s temperature and have, unfortunately, not listened for more then four hours in a session. That being said the transformers and chassis are not very warm to the touch at that point.


----------



## GU1DO

Did anybody post an inside picture ? i would love to know the volume controller in this amp


----------



## u2u2

hodgjy said:


> The time limit that manufacturers often put on tube amps serves two purposes:
> 1) Prolong the life of the tube since they are a consumable. It's common for people to leave their amps on 24/7, and this will burn up the tubes in a few years or less.
> 
> 2) Protect the capacitors. They have a time/temp rating.


Wish McIntosh gave some user guidance on operating limits... 

For those inclined to run long hours, like myself, I have started running through smart plugs monitoring power consumption. Just to get a feel for it. 
The MHA sips power at a steady 32 watts. It takes about four hours, yes 4 hours, to get fully warmed up and stabilized (temp, not sound wise). Low power consumption with a large mass and surface area. Add on a Chord Qutest or other efficient DAC, plus an efficient source and you can run this thing for the consumption equivalent of less than a standard light bulb. Low power consumption, cheap tubes, equal running costs that  leave funds for other upgrades.


----------



## u2u2

GU1DO said:


> Did anybody post an inside picture ? i would love to know the volume controller in this amp


Ken Zelin from McIntosh made some comments on the control during the Zoom Session linked above. Those comments suggest a rather unique part so someone with Googling skills might be able to ID it. The detent, shaft size and the like...


----------



## hodgjy

u2u2 said:


> Wish McIntosh gave some user guidance on operating limits...
> 
> For those inclined to run long hours, like myself, I have started running through smart plugs monitoring power consumption. Just to get a feel for it.
> The MHA sips power at a steady 32 watts. It takes about four hours, yes 4 hours, to get fully warmed up and stabilized (temp, not sound wise). Low power consumption with a large mass and surface area. Add on a Chord Qutest or other efficient DAC, plus an efficient source and you can run this thing for the consumption equivalent of less than a standard light bulb. Low power consumption, cheap tubes, equal running costs that  leave funds for other upgrades.


If the manufacturer doesn't give operating limits, it probably means they over-spec'ed the capacitors for temperature and time. The only worry would be tube life, which is an understood, finite limitation.


----------



## Nostoi

u2u2 said:


> Ken Zelin from McIntosh made some comments on the control during the Zoom Session linked above. Those comments suggest a rather unique part so someone with Googling skills might be able to ID it. The detent, shaft size and the like...


I watched it also. He seemed to concede that it wasn't optimal and they hoped to find a superior part in the next revision. To be honest, I didn't find his explanation terribly edifying or encouraging.


----------



## axsnyder

Nostoi said:


> I watched it also. He seemed to concede that it wasn't optimal and they hoped to find a superior part in the next revision. To be honest, I didn't find his explanation terribly edifying or encouraging.



Agreed and please take my next two paragraphs as nit-picking.  

I liked his honesty, and am glad to hear they're having the kind of business success he claims after COVID.  As a business owner, I would advise him not to say things like "it is a good problem to have" in front of customers who might not have that same appreciation for economic growth.  All the McIntosh customer cares about is getting a quality product in a reasonable amount of time.  

Admitting they couldn't build the volume knob to not be wiggly in order to make way for a pre-amp feature is a little odd on a headphone amp.  Although I have not received my MHA200 yet, it gave me a little pause on this amp I am waiting for.  That thought was deepened when he said they might fix it on the next version without stating how they might rectify things for those of us who bought the first version.  If the Jerry-rig felt rings fix it, hey, I'm all about Machiavelli - the end justifies the means - if it works, I don't care how it got there.

He did finish an auto show with a ton of talking before joining the Zoom session.  I'm in the car business (my company makes technology for it) and have done my share of event speeches.  I'm sure he was drained.

All in all, I'm glad I watched that Zoom session and thank Jason for making it happen!  The initial lead-up presentation was educational.  Ken's explanations for why they did things helped to reinforce why I love the McIntosh brand.  

I wish there was a bigger audience for the session.  You could tell Jason was itching to mix it up and get farther in the details.  I, unfortunately, couldn't adjust my schedule to make it live.


----------



## TSAVJason

u2u2 said:


> I have power tubes on the way from TheTubeStore. Paid for overnight. Were supposed to arrive this morning but UPS has bumped them a day even though they arrived in Concord Friday. Tracking glitch I hope. If you are in the T O area still, dare I ask if your unit is from BBR? If it is that means their entire stock had power tube issues.



McIntosh is all over your issue. Unfortunately your dealer says they can’t or haven’t been able to duplicate the issue. The McIntosh team called me this morning asking me my opinion and if I had seen any issues similar. I’ve given them what I think they should be looking for and I hope it works out for you soon


----------



## TSAVJason

axsnyder said:


> Agreed and please take my next two paragraphs as nit-picking.
> 
> I liked his honesty, and am glad to hear they're having the kind of business success he claims after COVID.  As a business owner, I would advise him not to say things like "it is a good problem to have" in front of customers who might not have that same appreciation for economic growth.  All the McIntosh customer cares about is getting a quality product in a reasonable amount of time.
> 
> ...


Well it was my first TSAV zoom meeting so I wasn’t expecting too many to be on with us but you are right, I was hoping for more customer feedback for Ken to address or take back to McIntosh for discussion. I am however, already in some meetings about what will likely be an MHA300 in the future. It’s obvious they want to make products for headphone users that really kick ass ….. I for one hope they get it done! I’m a big McIntosh fan


----------



## ThanatosVI

TSAVJason said:


> Well it was my first TSAV zoom meeting so I wasn’t expecting too many to be on with us but you are right, I was hoping for more customer feedback for Ken to address or take back to McIntosh for discussion. I am however, already in some meetings about what will likely be an MHA300 in the future. It’s obvious they want to make products for headphone users that really kick ass ….. I for one hope they get it done! I’m a big McIntosh fan


Well this is some exciting news.
MHA 300 maybe with KT88 like in many McIntosh speaker amps


----------



## TSAVJason

ThanatosVI said:


> Well this is some exciting news.
> MHA 300 maybe with KT88 like in many McIntosh speaker amps


I’ve probably already said too much but I’ll let you know what I can when I can.


----------



## ThanatosVI

TSAVJason said:


> I’ve probably already said too much but I’ll let you know what I can when I can.


I'm counting on you!


----------



## Lépine

axsnyder said:


> Admitting they couldn't build the volume knob to not be wiggly in order to make way for a pre-amp feature is a little odd on a headphone amp.



I have a second run MHA200. I don't have a loose volume knob and others from the second batch have reported that they don't either.


----------



## TSAVJason (Jul 22, 2021)

It’s coming up on “batch” (as you refer to it) number 4. Not to diminish what Ken said but …..
I’m not so sure his answer wasn’t off the cuff rather than a factory researched response. 🍻


----------



## funkur

Lépine said:


> I have a second run MHA200. I don't have a loose volume knob and others from the second batch have reported that they don't either.


Agreed. 2nd batch owner and while sensitive 12-2 o’clock, it’s not loose.


----------



## ttocs

To me "sensitive" isn't strong enough of a word.  Not sure how a volume control like this got through testing.  My range of volume is tiny.

That being said the knob seems pretty solid.


----------



## u2u2

TSAVJason said:


> McIntosh is all over your issue. Unfortunately your dealer says they can’t or haven’t been able to duplicate the issue. The McIntosh team called me this morning asking me my opinion and if I had seen any issues similar. I’ve given them what I think they should be looking for and I hope it works out for you soon


Thanks for the assistance and info. Dealer called about an hour after you posted and had some ideas from McIntosh to try. Problem is, the power tubes showed up Monday evening and I put them in. Been playing the amp ever since and it is working perfectly. Problem solved (knocking on wood...). In a happy place now.


----------



## Lépine (Jul 22, 2021)

The volume knob on the McIntosh reminds me of when Soichiro Honda made his first Formula 1 engine and it couldn't finish a race. Having had so much success in motorcycle engines, it never occurred to the design engineering team that engine oil was not staying at the bottom of the crank case as the car cornered through turns. On a motorcycle, this was never a problem since the engine leans into the turns, but a car doesn't do that.

I think McIntosh will understand that a headphone amp is not a 2-channel speaker amp that has a fixed gain and no volume knob. Certainly the first several ticks from 7-9 o'clock on the MHA200 volume knob are pointless since the amp is silent until at least 10 o'clock. But almost no one will have a problem with lack of power after 1 o'clock if you can still keep your hearing.

Hopefully consumer focus group feedback can influence design changes for the MHA300.

Just a note:  I like and respect the HeadAmp GS-X Mini for what it can do. Very nice amp.  After buying the MHA200, I've listened to the Mini about 1 hour in the last month.


----------



## cykin

Hello everyone, I am interested in MHA200 but am a bit hesitant due to the volume knob at this moment. Also, have any of you compared the Monolith by Monoprice Liquid Platinum Balanced Headphone Amplifier by Alex Cavalli to MHA200? Thank you.


----------



## axsnyder

cykin said:


> have any of you compared the Monolith by Monoprice Liquid Platinum Balanced Headphone Amplifier by Alex Cavalli to MHA200? Thank you.



Mine is a week away and one of the first things I will do is make that comparison.  Will post my thoughts on that comparison as soon as I can.  My LP has the cap mod though.


----------



## cykin

take your time. enjoy


----------



## neogeosnk

Anyone know if this amp can power the Hifiman 6se?


----------



## ThanatosVI

neogeosnk said:


> Anyone know if this amp can power the Hifiman 6se?


Nope, 6-SE Susvara and Abyss 1266TC are off Limits, most other headphones are powered just fine tho


----------



## TSAVJason

neogeosnk said:


> Anyone know if this amp can power the Hifiman 6se?


It’s an unqualified question. If you mean at very loud levels …. No. If you mean at reasonable loud levels ……yes!


----------



## JayF

I'm finding that it can drive anything I throw at it without a problem... Empyrean (current fav), Utopia, Final Audio D8000, AKG1000. Maybe I'm not picky enough.

And sorry, I don't understand the issue with the "volume" knob. It's a non-issue for me between adjusting volume via Bluesound app for streaming, adjusting via my musical fidelity dac, or just slightly turning the knob... Not that difficult. 

I'm loving this thing, so kudos to McIntosh from my perspective.


----------



## TSAVJason

cykin said:


> Hello everyone, I am interested in MHA200 but am a bit hesitant due to the volume knob at this moment. Also, have any of you compared the Monolith by Monoprice Liquid Platinum Balanced Headphone Amplifier by Alex Cavalli to MHA200? Thank you.


I can’t comment on the monoprice versions but I can say the Real Cavalli products, made by Cavalli are formidable in sound quality. I liken the MHA200 to the Cavalli Liquid Gold @ $4500 v the MHA200 @ $2500


----------



## cykin

big different between the real one and mono price version in general?


----------



## TSAVJason

cykin said:


> big different between the real one and mono price version in general?


Sorry, I don’t sell monoprice products so I’m not allowed to comment on them any further than I have already


----------



## ttocs

Any recommendations for upgraded 12BH7A tubes?  I have no real reason to want to change other then the desire to see what a difference there could be.  

Found the Mullard 12AT7s to be a welcome sonic difference, even though I was very happy with the stock tubes.  Figure why not swap out the others and see what happens.


----------



## Exer

McIntosh and others report that replacement of the 12BH7A tubes are unlikely to result in sonic differences. There have been a few cases reported where the included tubes (reported to be McIntosh branded JJ tubes) develop static, and the suspicion of owners is a bad batch of tubes. 

I replaced with electro-harmonix 12BH7, and haven't noticed any sonic differences.


----------



## ABQ2

axsnyder said:


> Mine is a week away and one of the first things I will do is make that comparison.  Will post my thoughts on that comparison as soon as I can.  My LP has the cap mod though.


did you get yet?  I ordered mine in June and was at first forecast a July delivery but now it's projected for September.


----------



## axsnyder

ABQ2 said:


> did you get yet?  I ordered mine in June and was at first forecast a July delivery but now it's projected for September.


It has been in my house for nearly two weeks and a phenomenal addition! 

I have a significant 1st world problem because the Audeze LCD-R showed up just before the Mc.  It is causing massive choice issues 

Last night, the McIntosh got the whole evening with a Qutest connected to a Lokius (unnecessary).  I plugged a few different headphones in and can say this is the first chain I've used that clearly shows the high points and weaknesses of each headphone.  Some of my favorite cans proved to be quite lackluster to my ear.  Others came to life like I've never heard before.  And before I go making negative or positive claims about my personal preference of cans on this chain of devices I want to get a few more listening sessions in.

I can say the bass on the Qutest + MHA200 was pleasing even with different Sennheisers (HD700 for example).  There were a few songs where the treble was a bit more forward than I like in some spots, but it wasn't ear piercing.  

Last night's session focused on strings.  Started with violins and then into electric guitars.  Yeah, yeah, yeah!


----------



## ABQ2

axsnyder said:


> It has been in my house for nearly two weeks and a phenomenal addition!
> 
> I have a significant 1st world problem because the Audeze LCD-R showed up just before the Mc.  It is causing massive choice issues
> 
> ...


I can't wait to see how good it is.  I just got Utopia cans a few weeks ago and they are the biggest improvement I have had.  I'm sure the Macs will make my system as good as it can get.  How long ago did you order your MHA200?


----------



## qboogie

Most are reporting the mullards sound good with this amp, but has anyone tried Sylvania gold brand 5751 tubes yet?


----------



## axsnyder

ABQ2 said:


> I can't wait to see how good it is.  I just got Utopia cans a few weeks ago and they are the biggest improvement I have had.  I'm sure the Macs will make my system as good as it can get.  How long ago did you order your MHA200?


I picked it up directly from Jason and Wayne at the Source AV. My little brother lives less than a hour away from their store and I try to visit him as much as possible.


----------



## Lépine (Aug 10, 2021)

I could use a little help.   I have been considering changing the Kimber Silver Streak interconnect with a Kimber Select hybrid KS-1126 for the Hugo TT2 and MHA200. Do you think this is not worth the change?  Both wires are copper and silver hybrids so in theory should sound exactly the same.  But is there Kimber magic in the KS-1126?  $1400 is a lot for confirming that yes, they sound so close that I have to switch back and forth 10 times to understand what is the difference.  Between the Hero Cu and Silver Streak, yes, easy to hear more bass is the Hero and more brightly detailed Silver Streak. 

I don't have any problems or complaints about how any of the Silver Streak cables sound.  I just want to know if there is a big improvement with the KS-1126.  I doubt I would gain anything from the KS-1116 all copper so not really considering that, but maybe I just don't know enough.  I do think MHA200 sounds great with copper.  I am not sure if I would like all silver interconnects, I assume it would sound too thin with not enough bass to sound right to me.

I haven't changed the tubes to Mullards.  I rather like the stock tubes.


----------



## TSAVJason

Lépine said:


> I could use a little help.   I have been considering changing the Kimber Silver Streak interconnect with a Kimber Select hybrid KS-1126 for the Hugo TT2 and MHA200. Do you think this is not worth the change?  Both wires are copper and silver hybrids so in theory should sound exactly the same.  But is there Kimber magic in the KS-1126?  $1400 is a lot for confirming that yes, they sound so close that I have to switch back and forth 10 times to understand what is the difference.  Between the Hero Cu and Silver Streak, yes, easy to hear more bass is the Hero and more brightly detailed Silver Streak.
> 
> I don't have any problems or complaints about how any of the Sliver Streak cables sound.  I just want to know if there is a big improvement with the KS-1126.  I doubt I would gain anything from the KS-1116 all copper so not really considering that, but maybe I just don't know enough.  I do think MHA200 sounds great with copper.  I am not sure if I would like all silver interconnects, I assume it would sound too thin with not enough bass to sound right to me.
> 
> I haven't changed the tubes to Mullards.  I rather like the stock tubes.


I personally love Kimber Kable products. I can’t say in good conscience that you would hear a $1400 difference. McIntosh always seems to please more listeners on copper. Just an observation 🍻


----------



## Lépine (Aug 10, 2021)

Thank you Jason for your valuable advice.  It sounds like I really don't need that KS-1126. Maybe occasionally rolling between the Timbre, Hero, and Silver Streak is all I need. I do think the Hero Cu XLR sounds great. More bass impact is nice vs the Silver Streak XLR.  I like the sound stage the Silver Streak creates.   A combination of the two would be perfect.


----------



## TSAVJason

*w*


Lépine said:


> Thank you Jason for your valuable advice.  It sounds like I really don't need that KS-1126. Maybe occasionally rolling between the Timbre, Hero, and Silver Streak is all I need. I do think the Hero Cu XLR sounds great. More bass impact is nice vs the Silver Streak XLR.  I like the sound stage the Silver Streak creates.   A combination of the two would be perfect.


You’ve probably noticed how incredible the mids are on the MHA200. They certainly don’t need any help from a silver or hybrid cable. But that is more a personal preference IMO 🍻


----------



## Lépine (Aug 10, 2021)

I really am impressed after two months how big the MHA200 sounds.  I actually prefer to set the volume knob between 12:30 and 1:00 position
and then adjust the volume itself with the source. To me this gives the fuller effect of the MHA200. Even with IEMs, it can sound very big and definitely full spectrum with Hero all copper. But it is also in my opinion, fairly neutral tonally with the XLR interconnects adding a little warmth with copper or take away the warmth and add a little more sharpened details with the silver wire.

I also enjoy the fact that I don't have to wait a half hour for the full sound and imaging to settle or stabilize which I found to be normal for some of the other tube headphone or even solid state amps I have tried.  I am really looking forwards to how McIntosh is going to fill out this particular line of products.


----------



## TSAVJason

Lépine said:


> I really am impressed after two months how big the MHA200 sounds.  I actually prefer to set the volume knob between 12:30 and 1:00 position
> and then adjust the volume itself with the source. To me this gives the fuller effect of the MHA200. Even with IEMs, it can sound very big and definitely full spectrum with Hero all copper. But it is also in my opinion, fairly neutral tonally with the XLR interconnects adding a little warmth with copper or take away the warmth and add a little more sharpened details with the silver wire.
> 
> I also enjoy the fact that I don't have to wait a half hour for the full sound and imaging to settle or stabilize which I found to be normal for some of the other tube headphone or even solid state amps I have tried.  I am really looking forwards to how McIntosh is going to fill out this particular line of products.



start saving your spare change for mid year 2022 🍻👍🏻


----------



## neogeosnk

TSAVJason said:


> start saving your spare change for mid year 2022 🍻👍🏻


Any hint?  Want to know how much to save.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Aug 11, 2021)

neogeosnk said:


> Any hint?  Want to know how much to save.


Since their entry amp MHA200 is 3000€ already, my guess would be at least 5500€

Jason can't probably comment on that topic yet


----------



## Newsee

ThanatosVI said:


> Since their entry amp MHA200 is 3000£ already, my guess would be at least 5500€
> 
> Jason can't probably comment on that topic yet


I guess the £ is a typo.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Newsee said:


> I guess the £ is a typo.


That guess is accurate.
Corrected my post, thx for pointing this out


----------



## u2u2

neogeosnk said:


> Any hint?  Want to know how much to save.


EVERY. PENNY. YOU. CAN!
It has to be much more than the MHA200 if they increase the feature set, or a somewhat lesser increase to fix the shortcomings.
But… The amp is the cheap part. 
If they do it right you could end up going down the path of new cans, cables, DAC etc etc… To squeeze all it has out. You see it in this thread and offshoots. 
My MHA200 relationship started off poorly but we have bonded rather well thanks to new tubes. The amp represents 15% of my costs and I was happy with my setup before I bought the McIntosh. A great ride and if they do it right on V2, the new gear will carry over.


----------



## Kelseyh123

They should make a matching DAC to go under the MHA-200.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Kelseyh123 said:


> They should make a matching DAC to go under the MHA-200.


And potentially a pre amp for more fine control of the volume


----------



## jin08611

I have another crazy question, does putting on a pair of 9 pins tube socket saver a good idea for changing tubes? without the tube housing on the unit can you even put a "tube socket saver"

I find this one on amazon is this a good one, or if it is recommended where I can get some nice ones for MHA200?

thank you all 

JIN 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099RNC8Z...olid=3CGD585O45HWX&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


----------



## TSAVJason

jin08611 said:


> I have another crazy question, does putting on a pair of 9 pins tube socket saver a good idea for changing tubes? without the tube housing on the unit can you even put a "tube socket saver"
> 
> I find this one on amazon is this a good one, or if it is recommended where I can get some nice ones for MHA200?
> 
> ...


That’s something that might cause a warranty issue. I suggest checking that with McIntosh or have your dealer check. I’d be curious but my initial thought is maybe a warranty issue


----------



## jin08611

Jason you are going to be my dealer haha lol I am buying that MHA200 hopefully next month from wayne haha lol


----------



## TSAVJason

jin08611 said:


> Jason you are going to be my dealer haha lol I am buying that MHA200 hopefully next month from wayne haha lol



we’ll also have a lot of the MHA200’s at SoCal CanJam


----------



## jin08611

I wish I can go, but with covid numbers are coming backup!! and I am on the east coast


----------



## TSAVJason

jin08611 said:


> Jason you are going to be my dealer haha lol I am buying that MHA200 hopefully next month from wayne haha lol


👊🏻 Thank you! 🍻


----------



## TSAVJason

jin08611 said:


> I wish I can go, but with covid numbers are coming backup!! and I am on the east coast



yeah, I totally get it. Good thing is it appears people are beginning to get vaxxed at a higher rate. Let’s hope for the best!


----------



## louis9 (Aug 17, 2021)

I just received my MHA 200 couple hours ago...
Currently i paired it with Abyss AB-1266, with Mcintosh MCD85 as DAC, streaming via Tidal
Superb pairing, very detail, good layering, the music comes ALIVE,  powerful amp with small foot print.
Very satisfy with this purchased, could ask more.

I'll update with other pairing soon, and some pics...

I think is time to say goodbye to my MHA100

I recommend this amp, absolutely amazing for the price.


----------



## louis9

qboogie said:


> It's a rather effusive review. I'd like to know how the Abyss 1266 sounds with this.


superb


----------



## mammal

qboogie said:


> It's a rather effusive review. I'd like to know how the Abyss 1266 sounds with this.





louis9 said:


> superb


Abyss sounds superb with many amps, what we are all here for are degrees/extends of superb. Any chance you can compare MHA200 to other amps, and how you like 1266 with them in more detail, please? Thank you


----------



## cykin

Anyone using it with HD800s? Thinking of using it with rme adi-2 dac fs and HD800s....


----------



## u2u2

cykin said:


> Anyone using it with HD800s? Thinking of using it with rme adi-2 dac fs and HD800s....


I use them in rotation with HD820, Focal Elear, and most recently Focal Stellia. The Stellia are now my main set but I make a point of using the HD800s for at least half an hour almost every day. They sound fine on the MHA200 and I always enjoy the switch to them even though they are now my low tier set. The mix of open/closed back is to address varying ambient noise levels around my home... My DACs are Qutest and Woo WDS-1 so I can't comment on what flavour the adi-2 might impart.


----------



## cykin

u2u2 said:


> I use them in rotation with HD820, Focal Elear, and most recently Focal Stellia. The Stellia are now my main set but I make a point of using the HD800s for at least half an hour almost every day. They sound fine on the MHA200 and I always enjoy the switch to them even though they are now my low tier set. The mix of open/closed back is to address varying ambient noise levels around my home... My DACs are Qutest and Woo WDS-1 so I can't comment on what flavour the adi-2 might impart.


it just sound fine... doesn't seem to be a good match?


----------



## u2u2

cykin said:


> it just sound fine... doesn't seem to be a good match?


The MHA200 and HD800s are an excellent match, for my tastes. That is why they get a near daily run even though I actually prefer my other phones due mostly to my listening circumstances. Sennheisers were my main phones until I got the MHA200. The amp headphone combination was so good it got me exploring even higher heights and I ordered Utopias... They have been in short supply, and delivery delayed, so I grabbed the Stellia to tide me over and for noisier times of day. If you already listen with HD800s and switch to this amp I expect you will still be hearing the true 800. The amp is pretty much neutral with them in my opinion. I suspect the unity coupled output transformers are the secret sauce. The stock tubes sound very good but I had power tube problems so I currently run Electro-harmonic power tubes and Mullard CV4024 drivers. The sound signature is very similar and the performance is rock solid with about 135 hours on those tubes. No caveats on the headphone amp combination but there is one on the amp itself... where I live the warranty coverage is so thin as to be transparent... thin as air. As you are in a different market area you might have proper warranty coverage. Good luck!


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Unfortunately, the dealer of my choice is still waiting to get a unit.
All promises so far have run into the groundless to hear the good piece of test.
I'm starting to find that a bit dubious.

Maybe I will go to another one when I get the chance.

I was wondering if this one. Ha can also drive a DC Aeon Rt with 13 ohm?
I haven't found anything about that yet.


----------



## louis9

mammal said:


> Abyss sounds superb with many amps, what we are all here for are degrees/extends of superb. Any chance you can compare MHA200 to other amps, and how you like 1266 with them in more detail, please? Thank you


My current setup, Mcintosh MCD 85 with MHA 200, before i've received my MHA 200, i use the MHA 100...

The sound separation is night and day compare it to MHA 100 and bigger sound space.
You can hear every detail in a song that you've never heard before, when you listened to vocal, it comes alive and fun, so musical typical Mcintosh sound signature. The highs bit airy for my taste.
Bass is deep and layered.

I've some Mcintosh headphone amp, MHA100 and D100, nothing compare to this amp. I think this is will be my last purchase for a while.

I'll hope it helps, sorry i'm not a good reviewer and english is not my first language.


----------



## louis9

u2u2 said:


> Mullard CV4024


Does it fit properly on the MHA200? Mine is sticking out a little bit from the based.


----------



## u2u2

louis9 said:


> Does it fit properly on the MHA200? Mine is sticking out a little bit from the based.


Mine fits flush but the pins will be a very tight fit unless you give them a cleanup with a product like Deoxit. Makes a massive difference even if the pins look clean. Aside from a good clean contact the residue is a lubricant so the tubes will insert easily compared to untreated. Goes almost without saying, be very certain all the pins are lined up properly. If one isn't there is no way they will go all the way in and fit flush.


----------



## louis9

u2u2 said:


> Mine fits flush but the pins will be a very tight fit unless you give them a cleanup with a product like Deoxit. Makes a massive difference even if the pins look clean. Aside from a good clean contact the residue is a lubricant so the tubes will insert easily compared to untreated. Goes almost without saying, be very certain all the pins are lined up properly. If one isn't there is no way they will go all the way in and fit flush.


Thank You for Deoxit recommendation.


----------



## funkur

funkur said:


> It’s a 125mA small slow blow fuse (no wonder they went C7 - this thing takes no juice at all).


Correction- there are 2 fuses in the unit. The aforementioned 125ma + another 1a slow blow.


----------



## funkur (Aug 24, 2021)

Does anyone have a preferred power cord with their MHA200?

I've been using a self-reterminated Analysis Plus Pro Power Oval with Monosaudio connectors.  Just tried the Audio Envy OE-Lite and wasn't a fan (very fast, but too light on the low end).  I'd like to try something else OCC, perhaps the Wireworld Mini-Electra next?


----------



## TSAVJason

funkur said:


> Does anyone have a preferred power cord with their MHA200?
> 
> I've been using a self-reterminated Analysis Plus Pro Power Oval with Monosaudio connectors.  Just tried the Audio Envy OE-Lite and wasn't a fan (very fast, but too light on the low end).  I'd like to try something else OCC, perhaps the Wireworld Mini-Eclipse next?


Our customers seem to prefer the Tributaries and some a selecting the Nordost. We don’t have good responses on the AudioQuest. I haven’t auditioned any others yet. I use the Tributaries personally


----------



## doggiemom

TSAVJason said:


> Our customers seem to prefer the Tributaries and some a selecting the Nordost. We don’t have good responses on the AudioQuest. I haven’t auditioned any others yet. I use the Tributaries personally


I prefer..... what I have.  Jason, what is it that I have?


----------



## TSAVJason

doggiemom said:


> I prefer..... what I have.  Jason, what is it that I have?


I believe you have the AudioQuest. No ones offered up impressions on it yet. What’s your thoughts?


----------



## doggiemom

TSAVJason said:


> I believe you have the AudioQuest. No ones offered up impressions on it yet. What’s your thoughts?


I peeked  and I have the Isotek.  It is a
lovely purple.  I think Wayne recommended it as I have an Isotek power conditioner and cables for my other components.


----------



## TSAVJason

doggiemom said:


> I peeked  and I have the Isotek.  It is a
> lovely purple.  I think Wayne recommended it as I have an Isotek power conditioner and cables for my other components.


Definitely a good suggestion from Wayne. 👍🏻


----------



## asaprod

Hey Guys, 
Just wanted to let you know I'm selling my mint MHA200. Just PM me if interested or check my ad on the classified section!
Cheers!!


----------



## meomap

asaprod said:


> Hey Guys,
> Just wanted to let you know I'm selling my mint MHA200. Just PM me if interested or check my ad on the classified section!
> Cheers!!


Reason?


----------



## asaprod

meomap said:


> Reason?


I realized I happen to be more of an OTL guy. Little less detailed and warmer sound. Call me crazy? lol


----------



## Crowbar44 (Sep 8, 2021)

So I just found a fairly nice solution to my gripes regarding the overly sensitive volume knob on the MHA200:

Microsoft Surface Dial

This is a Bluetooth knob that can be programmed to do many things on any Windows 10 computer - including volume control.  It has a nice heft and feel to it, and since it's wireless, can be placed very close at hand anywhere on your desk.  The Surface Dial allows for very precise adjustment of master volume of my PC, and the sensitivity can be changed to suit your preferences.

I basically went "up one" on the load switch, set the MHA200 volume knob at unity, and now use the Surface Dial to control volume using my PC's windows master volume control - works like a charm.  Truth is though, you could probably use the "ideal" load setting and just set the MHA200 volume to whatever sounds very loud (too loud?) to your ears when the windows volume is at 100% and get the same effect.  I guess I like the idea of taking the volume pot out of the signal path.

Since the volume control is happening in the digital domain - it's hard to imagine this could cause any issues with sound quality - and to my ears there are none, but would appreciate any input on this.  Exclusive Mode in Amazon Music still allows volume control in this manner with my setup.

I was thinking about getting a Schiit Freya S to use as a pre-amp, but the idea of adding another active component to the signal path isn't ideal, and not having the clutter of a big pre-amp on my desk made this seem like a better choice.

This obviously doesn't work for those folks who are using a transport/cd player/turntable as a source, but for the majority of us who use a PC it works great.  There are cheap, Chinese made, wired volume controls available that do a similar thing, but without the build quality and programmability of the Surface Dial.

This honestly removes my only qualm about the MHA200.  In fact, even if the MHA200's volume pot was perfect, with an ideal slow ramp, I'd prefer using the surface Dial.

Cheers.


----------



## ttocs

Crowbar44 said:


> So I just found a fairly nice solution to my gripes regarding the overly sensitive volume knob on the MHA200:
> 
> Microsoft Surface Dial
> 
> ...


Found it interesting that we are using almost an identical signal path (Bifrost 2--MHA200--LC2F) and have the same issue with the volume control.

I'm considering the Schiit Jotunheim 2 as my preamp.  Same size as the Bifrost so no real difference on desk space used.  Adds the ability to use a solid state amp if I ever felt the need.  Not sure why I'd want to with the MHA200.  Also only $399 if you don't get module.


----------



## axsnyder

I was using the Jotunheim-A (the one for Audeze LCD-R) and found it limited the volume on the MHA200.  I didn’t like it and quickly undid that chain. I can try it again for a more detailed response.


----------



## Crowbar44 (Sep 9, 2021)

ttocs said:


> Found it interesting that we are using almost an identical signal path (Bifrost 2--MHA200--LC2F) and have the same issue with the volume control.
> 
> I'm considering the Schiit Jotunheim 2 as my preamp.  Same size as the Bifrost so no real difference on desk space used.  Adds the ability to use a solid state amp if I ever felt the need.  Not sure why I'd want to with the MHA200.  Also only $399 if you don't get module.


Intriguing idea using the Jot 2 pre-outs.  You could save even more money and use an Asgard 3 - but then you're stuck with a single ended signal path.  However, my suspicion is that the pre-amp stage of the Jot/Asgard is probably similar to the Schiit Sys, which is definitely the cheapest route...albeit single ended.

For me, adding another active component to the signal path just to fix a poorly designed volume pot doesn't make sense.  I'm happy with this bluetooth knob...


----------



## ttocs

I considered adding a passive level control, but at the price point to fix the volume issues I'm having without much additional functionality, the Jot looked more attractive.

This is the balanced VC I was considering.

https://goldpt.com/sa2x.html


----------



## TSAVJason

ttocs said:


> I considered adding a passive level control, but at the price point to fix the volume issues I'm having without much additional functionality, the Jot looked more attractive.
> 
> This is the balanced VC I was considering.
> 
> https://goldpt.com/sa2x.html


Just curious but what are the “issues” you are having?


----------



## ttocs

The issue is the very limited movement in the volume control between inaudible and dangerous levels.  

I do not have the issues some are having with a loose knob.  I wouldn't say it's a premium feel but since I can not turn it more then 12:30 and 1:00 (more like 12:30 and 12:45) that hasn't bothered me.

I feel that this is a very common complaint about the MHA-200.

Other then that I am a huge fan of the amp.


----------



## Crowbar44

ttocs said:


> The issue is the very limited movement in the volume control between inaudible and dangerous levels.
> 
> I do not have the issues some are having with a loose knob.  I wouldn't say it's a premium feel but since I can not turn it more then 12:30 and 1:00 (more like 12:30 and 12:45) that hasn't bothered me.
> 
> ...


Same issue for me....


----------



## meomap

Why can't McIntosh fix this dam issue?


----------



## Deleeh

I'm surprised at the price of a device like this, regardless of the name.
It seems to be due to the amplifier power, which was pushed to the limit.

I know this much more with volume controls that have a step function, which I find so impractical, especially when the Db setting is set high per detent point.

I don't think a pot exchange makes sense as long as there is no revision or another manufacturer is used.

A spontaneous alternative would be a Dac with variable volume control.
That would certainly be more convenient.


----------



## u2u2

meomap said:


> Why can't McIntosh fix this dam issue?


Self evident. They know what you want but you haven’t figured that out yet… Same for me and a few others on the forum.

I did three trips to my dealer in the last 10 days or so and it ended with me there for a couple of hours yesterday. 
Volume problem fixed.
My MHA200 now sings like no other, the volume is silky smooth (its from Naim), and the amp is almost a pleasure to use.
The right channel drops out from time to time. Have changed every interconnect, headphones, cables etc etc. All done except another set of tubes and the amp itself.
Wondering if it is that wonky volume knob or is there a relay in the amp that is kaput… Praying for a hard failure.
It really is a very nice amp but my copy isn’t meeting the test of being a user. It passes as a high maintenance looker.
I like tube amps and I like them located where I can look at them as I use them. The MHA200 looks great to my eye yet it now sits out of my field of view. 
Front and center is a Naim Uniti Atom Headphone Edition amp and Uniti Core Server. They feed the 200 for now, in balanced mode, but their tentacles have reached out to a workhorse WA22 as well. 
McIntosh get your act together, you aren’t the only game in town. The MHA200 could be an entry point for new customers, as it was for me. My experience has steered me to your competition even though I had much bigger McIntosh plans… A fumble when a touchdown was in easy reach.


----------



## TSAVJason

u2u2 said:


> Self evident. They know what you want but you haven’t figured that out yet… Same for me and a few others on the forum.
> 
> I did three trips to my dealer in the last 10 days or so and it ended with me there for a couple of hours yesterday.
> Volume problem fixed.
> ...



it’s not a traditional VC. It should be viewed more like a gain control. It has a 1-1 detent for use as a straight amp.

happy to hear you got yours sorted out.
FYI, the 1st part of your post almost caused me to blow coffee out my nose 😂😂😂


----------



## ThanatosVI

u2u2 said:


> Self evident. They know what you want but you haven’t figured that out yet… Same for me and a few others on the forum.
> 
> I did three trips to my dealer in the last 10 days or so and it ended with me there for a couple of hours yesterday.
> Volume problem fixed.
> ...


High hopes for the MHA300...
Maybe they should sell a preamp EQ combo with fitting form factor for the MHA200.


----------



## Nostoi

TSAVJason said:


> Just curious but what are the “issues” you are having?


I thought the "issue" was fairly well known by far....


----------



## u2u2

TSAVJason said:


> it’s not a traditional VC. It should be viewed more like a gain control. It has a 1-1 detent for use as a straight amp.
> 
> happy to hear you got yours sorted out.
> FYI, the 1st part of your post almost caused me to blow coffee out my nose 😂😂😂


Spot on with your comment. Using it as a straight amp is the route to nirvana with this beast.
Glad you didn't waste any good beans. Bad for the sinuses as well...


----------



## TSAVJason

u2u2 said:


> Spot on with your comment. Using it as a straight amp is the route to nirvana with this beast.
> Glad you didn't waste any good beans. Bad for the sinuses as well...


I try not to waste any beans 😂😂😂


----------



## ABQ2

After ordering it in June it's finally due to arrive next week.  I'll source it from a McIntosh MP100 phono stage thru balanced cables so here's hoping the volume works.  It's Mac-Mac so I expect it to.


----------



## Deleeh

Z Review's reviewed the Mha 200.
They really didn't have a good word to say about the volume control.

It's really a design flaw as far as that's concerned.
You can hear it in the video where he shows what is meant and has been discussed here before.
It's a real problem, the same thing happened with the Smsl Sp200 in the first second batch before it was fixed.

So for the money you're spending, it really shouldn't be, regardless of the fact that it's otherwise good.
Mcintosh really needs to get back at it and improve it.

Especially for us Europeans, I think it's really cheeky because we're paying 3000€ for it instead of 2500$.
I wouldn't buy it before it was fixed, if I'm honest.
I'm glad I haven't heard it yet.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> Z Review's reviewed the Mha 200.
> They really didn't have a good word to say about the volume control.
> 
> It's really a design flaw as far as that's concerned.
> ...


The price hike in europe is ridiculous. 2500$ are ~2100€ even with customs, tax and everything it would be much closer to 2500€ than 3000€


----------



## Nostoi

Deleeh said:


> Z Review's reviewed the Mha 200.
> They really didn't have a good word to say about the volume control.
> 
> It's really a design flaw as far as that's concerned.
> ...


There's your simple fix below. McIntosh should recall the unit and apply it themselves. Very elegant solution.


----------



## TSAVJason

Deleeh said:


> Z Review's reviewed the Mha 200.
> They really didn't have a good word to say about the volume control.
> 
> It's really a design flaw as far as that's concerned.
> ...


I’d like to understand how a feature becomes a design flaw. I understand people may not want or like this feature but I don’t understand how a built in feature becomes a design flaw.


----------



## Deleeh

ThanatosVI said:


> The price hike in europe is ridiculous. 2500$ are ~2100€ even with customs, tax and everything it would be much closer to 2500€ than 3000€


Yes, that's what I thought, why it costs 3000€ in Europe and much less in America.
It's certainly not justified for customs clearance alone and the possible different design of the transformer on the Eu version.

Well, if I have to fix the volume control with dough, it doesn't make sense.
As elegant as it may be, it would be nothing for me.


----------



## Nostoi

TSAVJason said:


> I’d like to understand how a feature becomes a design flaw. I understand people may not want or like this feature but I don’t understand how a built in feature becomes a design flaw.


And that's why McIntosh aren't ready for the headphone amplifier market.


----------



## TSAVJason

ThanatosVI said:


> The price hike in europe is ridiculous. 2500$ are ~2100€ even with customs, tax and everything it would be much closer to 2500€ than 3000€



Each distributor has the choice contractually to determine pricing in their territories. So the thinking it’s McIntosh’s fault is confusing to me. McIntosh does ask it’s distributors to match the US pricing but they also understand that different countries do charge different duties. The distributors are not obligated to absorb those by costs.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deleeh said:


> Yes, that's what I thought, why it costs 3000€ in Europe and much less in America.
> It's certainly not justified for customs clearance alone and the possible different design of the transformer on the Eu version.
> 
> Well, if I have to fix the volume control with dough, it doesn't make sense.
> As elegant as it may be, it would be nothing for me.


It wouldn't be all that Bad if McIntosh wouldn't forbid dealers to sell internationally.

Regarding the unity gain, I'd actually be one of the fewer users who utilize it.
In fact I hope that more manufacturers would add that feature and I certainly hope that it will be present in the MHA300 as well.


----------



## TSAVJason

Nostoi said:


> And that's why McIntosh aren't ready for the headphone amplifier market.


We are all entitled to our opinion and clearly you have yours


----------



## Nostoi

TSAVJason said:


> We are all entitled to our opinion and clearly you have yours


Consumer opinions should be seen as feedback for manufacturers to refine products rather than annoyances that sponsors have to endure.


----------



## meomap

ThanatosVI said:


> The price hike in europe is ridiculous. 2500$ are ~2100€ even with customs, tax and everything it would be much closer to 2500€ than 3000€


Get rid of EU then...


----------



## TSAVJason

ThanatosVI said:


> It wouldn't be all that Bad if McIntosh wouldn't forbid dealers to sell internationally.
> 
> Regarding the unity gain, I'd actually be one of the fewer users who utilize it.
> In fact I hope that more manufacturers would add that feature and I certainly hope that it will be present in the MHA300 as well.



I personally love this feature and obviously there are people who don’t. I was going through a large number of preamps with the MHA200 yesterday and they all showed different characteristics. If anyone wants a little further insight on how to use this feature send me a DM and I’m happy to explain the many choices it provides the user.


----------



## TSAVJason

Nostoi said:


> Consumer opinions should be seen as feedback for manufacturers to refine products rather than annoyances that sponsors have to endure.


 
like I said, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion just as a manufacturer is entitled to provide features they think are useful. McIntosh has tightened the tiny movement in the gain control and so far based on their design intention it appears to be the only flaw I can find.


----------



## ThanatosVI

TSAVJason said:


> Each distributor has the choice contractually to determine pricing in their territories. So the thinking it’s McIntosh’s fault is confusing to me. McIntosh does ask it’s distributors to match the US pricing but they also understand that different countries do charge different duties. The distributors are not obligated to absorb those by costs.


Well I can only look at it from the customer perspective.
Some companies offer their products at similar price around the world.
A Meze Empyrean for instance costs 4000$ in the US and 4000€ over here.
A DCA Stealth costs 4000$ in the US and 4100€ over here.

And some really don't 
The McIntosh MHA200 costs 2500$ in the US and 3000€ over here.
Cayin is even worse the Ha-6a costs 2500$ in the US and 3600€ over here.

For me as customer it's impossible to tell if the manufacturers to blame or the distributor.
It does leave a Bad taste though.


----------



## Deleeh

TSAVJason said:


> I’d like to understand how a feature becomes a design flaw. I understand people may not want or like this feature but I don’t understand how a built in feature becomes a design flaw.


Well, that's quite simple.
When I plan something that I think will work, but when I prototype it, it's not what I imagined.

Then you very often don't redesign because it's already very expensive.
The easiest way is what the market still offers.

Let's say Alps didn't have anything to serve Macintosh or it turned out to be inconvenient.
If you go for what works and accept something in return, in this case it would be the complained handling.

Then it already happened.
It's often the case with many devices, somewhere you still save here and there on the screw.

It's not a secret that we live in a throwaway society, and that the devices are deliberately made worse than they are, sometimes designed in such a way that they can't be repaired.

No one can say that this problem has not yet arrived with the volume control problem on the Macintosh.
Even fans must have commented on it, as well as private people who have complained about it in specialist shops.

Or how do you understand it?


----------



## meomap

TSAVJason said:


> We are all entitled to our opinion and clearly you have yours


And you are ok with that VC problem? From a dealer standpoint?


----------



## ttocs

TSAVJason said:


> I personally love this feature and obviously there are people who don’t. I was going through a large number of preamps with the MHA200 yesterday and they all showed different characteristics. If anyone wants a little further insight on how to use this feature send me a DM and I’m happy to explain the many choices it provides the user.



I'm assuming the feature you are mentioning is the "Unity Gain" detent on the knob?  If this is the case, the majority of traditional volume controls can be placed at a unity gain level for proper gain structure if you are using a preamp.

Since it is a pretty far departure from the majority of the competitive products on the market I believe it should be more clearly stated by McIntosh that it does not function like you would expect from a "Volume" control.

A label of Gain would have made this more obvious.  Stating that it is to be used with a preamp (bringing the price point to a different level) would also be appropriate.

If it had been marketed like a McIntosh speaker amp for headphones.... I may have thought more about it.

Being caught off guard by this "feature" if probably my biggest issue.


----------



## Nostoi (Sep 10, 2021)

TSAVJason said:


> like I said, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion just as a manufacturer is entitled to provide features they think are useful. McIntosh has tightened the tiny movement in the gain control and so far based on their design intention it appears to be the only flaw I can find.


As a dealer/sponser, the best response you could have provided throughout this thread would be something to the effect of "thanks for the feedback, I'll relay it to McIntosh." 

But instead you've either downplayed or evaded the issue (indeed disingenuously claiming you were unaware of the issue), before responding in a consistently passive aggressive way. 

It doesn't inspire confidence and certainly from someone like me who has been in the fence about buying the amp, it doesn't inspire sales.


----------



## TSAVJason

ThanatosVI said:


> Well I can only look at it from the customer perspective.
> Some companies offer their products at similar price around the world.
> A Meze Empyrean for instance costs 4000$ in the US and 4000€ over here.
> A DCA Stealth costs 4000$ in the US and 4100€ over here.
> ...


I totally understand. It is unfortunate and confusing


----------



## Crowbar44 (Sep 10, 2021)

u2u2 said:


> Spot on with your comment. Using it as a straight amp is the route to nirvana with this beast.
> Glad you didn't waste any good beans. Bad for the sinuses as well...


For someone integrating the MHA200 into an existing system with a pre-amp, I agree the VC issues are  a non-issue as you will leave it at unity.

For the average desktop user whose path looks like this:

Computer>>DAC>>MHA200>>Headphones, it unfortunately is an issue...

I've completely fixed this issue by using the Microsoft Surface Dial Bluetooth knob.  I like this method MORE that using the knob on the MHA200 (additional plus - no fingerprints!).

I'm still incredibly happy with the sound of this amp, and have no regrets having purchased it whatsoever.

McIntosh was perhaps blinded by the fact that the vast majority of their clients run all McIntosh systems, and the design of the MHA200 prioritizes integration with a McIntosh pre-amp.  However, the design is just a bit of a miss for the "typical" headphone customer who is going to rely on the amp itself for volume control.

I think Jason's comment that the VC on the MHA200 is more of a "gain control" knob than a traditional volume pot or stepped attenuator is a hint that there's something different about the VC on the MHA200 than other HP amps.  For all I know, it might result in better sound - who knows.


----------



## TSAVJason

ttocs said:


> I'm assuming the feature you are mentioning is the "Unity Gain" detent on the knob?  If this is the case, the majority of traditional volume controls can be placed at a unity gain level for proper gain structure if you are using a preamp.
> 
> Since it is a pretty far departure from the majority of the competitive products on the market I believe it should be more clearly stated by McIntosh that it does not function like you would expect from a "Volume" control.
> 
> ...


I’m not trying to be argumentative but where is it being marketed as a speaker amp?


----------



## TSAVJason

Crowbar44 said:


> For someone integrating the MHA200 into an existing system with a pre-amp, I agree the VC issues are  a non-issue as you will leave it at unity.
> 
> For the average desktop user whose path looks like this:
> 
> ...



the detent is not an exact placement of the control in all cases. Yesterday I tried a few preamps where I adjusted slightly above the detent and was able very nicely drive hard to drive headphones that typically require a lot more grunt


----------



## Crowbar44

Nostoi said:


> As a dealer/sponser, the best response you could have provided throughout this thread would be something to the effect of "thanks for the feedback, I'll relay it to McIntosh."
> 
> But instead you've either downplayed or evaded the issue (indeed disingenuously claiming you were unaware of the issue), before responding in a consistently passive aggressive way.
> 
> It doesn't inspire confidence and certainly from someone like me who has been in the fence about buying the amp, it doesn't inspire sales.


I don't think the above comment is fair...IMHO Jason has been nothing but transparent and fair in all his replies to the issues with the MHA200 posted here.  He's acknowledged the shortcomings very clearly in the past, and frankly he's directly communicated these issues to McIntosh and even set up a video call so user could directly speak to McIntosh representatives.

Passive aggressive? He's been nothing of the sort...


----------



## TSAVJason

Nostoi said:


> As a dealer/sponser, the best response you could have provided throughout this thread would be something to the effect of "thanks for the feedback, I'll relay it to McIntosh."
> 
> But instead you've either downplayed or evaded the issue (indeed disingenuously claiming you were unaware of the issue), before responding in a consistently passive aggressive way.
> 
> It doesn't inspire confidence and certainly from someone like me who has been in the fence about buying the amp, it doesn't inspire sales.


I’m certainly not a politician, I’m just an engineer and owner of TSAV with my brother but you can trust I do relay comments to the CEO and design team. Don’t presume for a minute I don’t understand your be comments but like I’ve said, for them it’s a feature and for others it’s a flaw. I happen to like the feature but that doesn’t mean I think everyone will.


----------



## TSAVJason

Nostoi said:


> As a dealer/sponser, the best response you could have provided throughout this thread would be something to the effect of "thanks for the feedback, I'll relay it to McIntosh."
> 
> But instead you've either downplayed or evaded the issue (indeed disingenuously claiming you were unaware of the issue), before responding in a consistently passive aggressive way.
> 
> It doesn't inspire confidence and certainly from someone like me who has been in the fence about buying the amp, it doesn't inspire sales.


I’m certainly not a politician, I’m just an engineer and owner of TSAV with my brother but you can trust I do relay comments to the CEO and design team. Don’t presume for a minute I don’t understand your be comments but like I’ve said, for them it’s a feature and for others it’s a flaw. I happen to like the feature but that doesn’t mean I think everyone will.

FYI, sales on the MHA200 have been insane. So I guess it’s a personal preference thing, isn’t it?


----------



## TSAVJason

Sorry, I didn’t mean to post that twice. I must have a fat thumb today.


----------



## Nostoi

Crowbar44 said:


> I don't think the above comment is fair...IMHO Jason has been nothing but transparent and fair in all his replies to the issues with the MHA200 posted here.  He's acknowledged the shortcomings very clearly in the past, and frankly he's directly communicated these issues to McIntosh and even set up a video call so user could directly speak to McIntosh representatives.
> 
> Passive aggressive? He's been nothing of the sort...


For me, saying that "We are all entitled to our opinion and clearly you have yours" is passive aggressive.

I'm not here to throw disparaging remarks around but I have to note that early on in this thread, he also accused me of spreading "fake news" when I mentioned the EU release date for the amp, which I found a bit unsavoury.

And then after letting him know about the volume issue in June, he replied in an oddly snarky way that I also thought was frankly weird - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-mcintosh-mha200-headphone-amp.954194/page-29#post-16427621 

Maybe it's just an unfortunate disposition.


----------



## TSAVJason

meomap said:


> And you are ok with that VC problem? From a dealer standpoint?


From a user or dealer standpoint I see their design concept very easily. Do I understand some people won’t like the feature? Yes. But as I typically do I relay all these concerns to the manufacture just as I did when Focal had Utopias and other models failing like crazy and let them know they needed to address the issues and provided opinion on how to address  the failures. I am very much a consumer advocate more than I am a brand promoter. I do use McIntosh and ARC at home, I still use my Utopias also but I did have to get my personal set repaired and I am definitely not a loud listener.


----------



## TSAVJason

Nostoi said:


> For me, saying that "We are all entitled to our opinion and clearly you have yours" is passive aggressive.
> 
> I'm not here to throw disparaging remarks around but I have to note that early on in this thread, he also accused me of spreading "fake news" when I mentioned the EU release date for the amp, which I found a bit unsavoury.
> 
> ...


Bro! It simply means I respect your opinion. Yes, maybe you’re not fond that I do speak my mind and try to help with information wherever possible. You wouldn’t be the first to think as you do but I respect that as well


----------



## ttocs

TSAVJason said:


> I’m not trying to be argumentative but where is it being marketed as a speaker amp?


I was trying to produce an example of marketing that would have made me more aware before purchase that it was not a standard desktop headphone amp.  Not trying to say that they had marketed it that way.  Sorry about the confusion.


----------



## Deleeh

TSAVJason said:


> I’m certainly not a politician, I’m just an engineer and owner of TSAV with my brother but you can trust I do relay comments to the CEO and design team. Don’t presume for a minute I don’t understand your be comments but like I’ve said, for them it’s a feature and for others it’s a flaw. I happen to like the feature but that doesn’t mean I think everyone will.


Well, okay, let's put it this way,
the majority want more sensitive control over the volume knob.
Maybe Macintosh can do something or even offer something.

Maybe for those who want to have the unity gain whatever that is.
And for the customers who want more control over a simple volume control that can be operated as you know it.
Maybe you can get that message across.

As I mentioned before the Smsl Sp200 had something similar and most people were bothered by it (there was something really wrong with it and it was fixed).

Including me, it was either too loud or too quiet.
Then I had once had an amplifier from a manufacturer who had built in a stepping potentiometer and that had also been terrible.
It was also too loud or too quiet, nothing in between.
So something like that can just be annoying.

There were hardly any other bad reviews or impressions of the Mha 200.
But as you can see the community doesn't like it and wants something else.


----------



## TSAVJason

ttocs said:


> I was trying to produce an example of marketing that would have made me more aware before purchase that it was not a standard desktop headphone amp.  Not trying to say that they had marketed it that way.  Sorry about the confusion.


No worries bro! I have another question. Didn’t your dealer explain some of the use functions and features? If it was purchased from my store I’d like to believe my staff at least tried to help you understand the unit. If they haven’t been providing insight I’d like to know so I can upgrade our service and information level


----------



## TSAVJason

Deleeh said:


> Well, okay, let's put it this way,
> the majority want more sensitive control over the volume knob.
> Maybe Macintosh can do something or even offer something.
> 
> ...


In that case as I’ve eluded to already ….. wait for the next iteration…… many of the items talked about here are being incorporated into the next version


----------



## Lépine (Sep 10, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> As a dealer/sponser, the best response you could have provided throughout this thread would be something to the effect of "thanks for the feedback, I'll relay it to McIntosh."
> 
> But instead you've either downplayed or evaded the issue (indeed disingenuously claiming you were unaware of the issue), before responding in a consistently passive aggressive way.
> 
> It doesn't inspire confidence and certainly from someone like me who has been in the fence about buying the amp, it doesn't inspire sales.


No whoa, I think you got it all wrong.  If you have ever been to The Source AV and bought gear there, you would know that Jason personally gets involved in any issues and sometimes there might be one. I have bought everything from the Source in the last few years because it is just so much better dealing here than elsewhere.  As far as how their team informs you of the good and the bad, Wayne and Jason are always letting you know before you hand over the credit card if there are any known quirks or issues.

Regards

Seiji


----------



## u2u2

Crowbar44 said:


> For someone integrating the MHA200 into an existing system with a pre-amp, I agree the VC issues are  a non-issue as you will leave it at unity.
> 
> For the average desktop user whose path looks like this:
> 
> ...


I am, or rather was, the average desktop user... just for clarity. 
The VC issue has cost me in many ways. I already posted too much earlier in the threads but, in the end, I have my best system yet and gained some more life experience! Jason has been pretty consistent in his approach here and the VC issue was part of the zoom video he hosted from, what, mid July, with McIntosh. McIntosh got feedback and we got some what for or why's. Time to enjoy the amp.


----------



## TSAVJason (Sep 15, 2021)

Guys, it’s ok. I know there are people here that don’t know me very well and may misinterpret my intentions but I still respect their opinions


----------



## ttocs

TSAVJason said:


> No worries bro! I have another question. Didn’t your dealer explain some of the use functions and features? If it was purchased from my store I’d like to believe my staff at least tried to help you understand the unit. If they haven’t been providing insight I’d like to know so I can upgrade our service and information level


Preordered once it was announced, so no real opportunity to review.  

My issue, which is small compared to my enjoyment of the rest of the amp, could have been avoided by overcoming my desire to have a new and shiny item before it was released to the wild.

Knowing what I know now by reading the forums I would have probably still purchased but would have thought more about the total system.


----------



## Deleeh

TSAVJason said:


> Guys, it’s ok. I know there are peoppe here that don’t know me very well and may misinterpret my intentions but I still respect their opinions


From my side, everything is good.👍
You have already given helpful tips.
You should let the dealer show you the functions and explain them to you.
When the dealer in Germany finally gets the mha 200, I will pay attention to that.
Otherwise, I would know who to ask if there are any questions.😉
I would then settle them by pm in any case.

I also think it's good that you get feedback and feedback from forums. it's an important thing as a seller anyway.👍
At least they do that, which I find a pity.
I have already experienced this several times, there is a shrug of the shoulders or I don't know what would still be honest.
Most of the time you get lied to and people take their frustration out somewhere else.
Certainly not the best way.
If I lived near you, I would have come by the shop.😊

On the other hand, of course the demand is there somewhere.
But you can't always have everything.
Manufacturers make mistakes too, even big manufacturers.


----------



## TSAVJason

McIntosh may get upset that I mention this but they know I have strong valid opinions. As I understand it and I may not be correct, the advisory on the MHA200 is an ex-headphone company employee. I’m pretty sure that advisor was not the best in terms of understanding the genre or the desires of the headphone community. After a few conversations and texts with McIntosh I believe they will head in a much more preferred method in the future and being that the unity gain feature is actually appreciated by quite a few they will likely provide a little more intuitive avenue for it.


----------



## axsnyder

After reading through 3 pages of complaints about the volume control (can’t call it VC because ZMF owns that acronym) and seeing Jason defend it, there is an obvious thing to address.  Many owners of the MHA200 (myself included) are not fans of McIntosh’s implementation of the volume knob. It is that simple and McIntosh should be made aware of it. From that point, McIntosh can decide to address it or not.

Jason, on the other hand, is doing as best a job as he can promoting McIntosh as a dealer of their fine products. I bought my MHA200 from him. I will absolutely do more business with him!  

Jason is passionate; he isn’t McIntosh. I hope he isn’t deterred from continuing to be the voice he is here from some minor annoyance on a great product.  I hope Jason also makes McIntosh aware there are a good number of us who are not running this product with a preamp and the volume control does not operate well for our use case.


----------



## TSAVJason

axsnyder said:


> After reading through 3 pages of complaints about the volume control (can’t call it VC because ZMF owns that acronym) and seeing Jason defend it, there is an obvious thing to address.  Many owners of the MHA200 (myself included) are not fans of McIntosh’s implementation of the volume knob. It is that simple and McIntosh should be made aware of it. From that point, McIntosh can decide to address it or not.
> 
> Jason, on the other hand, is doing as best a job as he can promoting McIntosh as a dealer of their fine products. I bought my MHA200 from him. I will absolutely do more business with him!
> 
> Jason is passionate; he isn’t McIntosh. I hope he isn’t deterred from continuing to be the voice he is here from some minor annoyance on a great product.  I hope Jason also makes McIntosh aware there are a good number of us who are not running this product with a preamp and the volume control does not operate well for our use case.



no, I’m not McIntosh. I admit I’m a McIntosh fan. I love their luscious midrange and the MHA200 definitely delivers in that respect. I don’t fault the idea of multi application they used to bring the MHA200 to market. Do I wish they had done it differently? Yes but for the most part it’s a great amp.
One thing I know is that employee/advisor has been identified as a non-expert at headphone products and McIntosh along with a large number of high end audio companies are here reading your comments. None are members or participants but they are finally recognizing this platform over others as a source of reference to future designs.


----------



## Onik

Is this Overpriced Amp/Toy any good for high impedance headphones like hd800s? 

also does it have enough juice to power planner cans like LCD 2?

and did anyone compared to Chinese/American brand Woo Audio Wa22?


----------



## ttocs

Onik said:


> Is this Overpriced Amp/Toy any good for high impedance headphones like hd800s?
> 
> also does it have enough juice to power planner cans like LCD 2?
> 
> and did anyone compared to Chinese/American brand Woo Audio Wa22?


Absolutely on HD800s and LCD2.   I've tried the HD800s on it and had no issues.  My main headphones are the LCD2F and they sound phenomenal with the MHA200.

Have not had the opportunity to compare with the Woo Audio.


----------



## ttocs

axsnyder said:


> I was using the Jotunheim-A (the one for Audeze LCD-R) and found it limited the volume on the MHA200.  I didn’t like it and quickly undid that chain. I can try it again for a more detailed response.


I assume that the balanced out of the A are the same as the standard Jot2.  Can you expand on the volume limiting?  With my current headphones limiting the volume some would not be an issue.


----------



## u2u2

Onik said:


> Is this Overpriced Amp/Toy any good for high impedance headphones like hd800s?
> 
> also does it have enough juice to power planner cans like LCD 2?
> 
> and did anyone compared to Chinese/American brand Woo Audio Wa22?


I can offer up that it has more than enough juice for my HD800 and HD820 yet handles my Focal Elears, Stellias, and Utopias at the other end of the scale with aplomb. Presumably the 800S ought to fit right in.
My main amp of almost six years is a WA22. Love the Woo and tube rolling with it.
The MHA200 and WA22 are both running off the same pre amp so I now move back and forth through the day with ease. 
The McIntosh gives all of the satisfaction of the Woo without needing a tube inventory. Gives a closer impedance match with four levels vs high/low. It is more economical in its space needs, uses a third the energy, and if you want spare tubes top tier NOS ones are dirt cheap compared to the Woo.
Overpriced Amp/Toy? Not compared to many other quality electronics from North America or Europe.


----------



## Nostoi

Lépine said:


> No whoa, I think you got it all wrong.  If you have ever been to The Source AV and bought gear there, you would know that Jason personally gets involved in any issues and sometimes there might be one. I have bought everything from the Source in the last few years because it is just so much better dealing here than elsewhere.  As far as how their team informs you of the good and the bad, Wayne and Jason are always letting you know before you hand over the credit card if there are any known quirks or issues.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Seiji


I've no doubt that they offer solid service in person, I was simply raising questions about their "Netiquette."

Anyway, I was on the market for an endgame compact tube amp and I've now bought an LTA MZ3 instead of the MHA200. Sure, it's more expensive than the MHA200, but it does offer a Vishay Dale 128dB stepped attenuator with *199* steps, so I guess it's worth the price of admission. 

With that I wish you all _adieu _and long may you continue to enjoy the amp.


----------



## TSAVJason

Nostoi said:


> I've no doubt that they offer solid service in person, I was simply raising questions about their "Netiquette."
> 
> Anyway, I was on the market for an endgame compact tube amp and I've now bought an LTA MZ3 instead of the MHA200. Sure, it's more expensive than the MHA200, but it does offer a Vishay Dale 128dB stepped attenuator with *199* steps, so I guess it's worth the price of admission.
> 
> With that I wish you all _adieu _and long may you continue to enjoy the amp.


Since you are offended somehow by my response to you, maybe you should point your “netiquette” comments toward me directly. “Their” indicates more than 1 individual offended your sensitivities from my company.

I don’t understand your reaction to my response as it contains no malice but you are entitled to your opinion.

With that, I wish great adventures with your new amp. 🍻


----------



## Nostoi

TSAVJason said:


> Since you are offended somehow by my response to you, maybe you should point your “netiquette” comments toward me directly. “Their” indicates more than 1 individual offended your sensitivities from my company.
> 
> I don’t understand your reaction to my response as it contains no malice but you are entitled to your opinion.
> 
> With that, I wish great adventures with your new amp. 🍻


I was referring in the plural because I was responding to a question about your company, which seemed to entail there were several employees (Wayne and Jason) - I.e., saying that I'm sure *they* offer a good service. But indeed my comment on netiquette was directed at you alone as an individual. 

What can I say? Probably just some bad chemistry for one reason or another. I don't consider myself especially sensitive, but just something about your responses here were a bit off. No big deal.


----------



## TSAVJason

Nostoi said:


> I was referring in the plural because I was responding to a question about your company, which seemed to entail there were several employees (Wayne and Jason) - I.e., saying that I'm sure *they* offer a good service. But indeed my comment on netiquette was directed at you alone as an individual.
> 
> What can I say? Probably just some bad chemistry for one reason or another. I don't consider myself especially sensitive, but just something about your responses here were a bit off. No big deal.


Maybe try not to read between the lines or assume what isn’t said.
I’m pleased you admit directing that at me. I didn’t join to become popular, I joined to provide quality information. I am however blessed to have made many new friends here.


----------



## Nostoi

TSAVJason said:


> Maybe try not to read between the lines or assume what isn’t said.
> I’m pleased you admit directing that at me. I didn’t join to become popular, I joined to provide quality information. I am however blessed to have made many new friends here.


I simply responded to your comments as they were presented. It's of no interest to me to read between the lines, as everything is already there in your replies.

I don't wish to drag this out and don't wish to derail this thread even more, but I'm 100% sure that everything I've said is accurate.


----------



## TSAVJason

Nostoi said:


> I simply responded to your comments as they were presented. It's of no interest to me to read between the lines, as everything is already there in your replies.
> 
> I don't wish to drag this out and don't wish to derail this thread even more, but I'm 100% sure that everything I've said is accurate.


Well there you have it! I responded to you just as I would anyone here. I don’t see it as individuals, I see it as a community. I’ll agree to disagree.


----------



## Deleeh

Nostoi said:


> I simply responded to your comments as they were presented. It's of no interest to me to read between the lines, as everything is already there in your replies.
> 
> I don't wish to drag this out and don't wish to derail this thread even more, but I'm 100% sure that everything I've said is accurate.


I'm sorry, but I have the impression that Jason contributes something to the community with his contributions, even though he is a seller.
Things that no normal salesman would have mentioned for fear that the customer would look elsewhere.

From this point of view, Jason can't do anything about it if the manufacturer has decided to build it that way.
Salespeople in general can't do anything about that.

He was honest with me, for example, when he indirectly answered that if you don't like it, wait for the next model, which may not come for another 3 years, sooner or later.

The way he appears here, I think his employees have a similar point of view.
One salesman may say it more directly than his other colleague.
I'd rather have someone like that in front of me than someone who is totally unfriendly.

Apart from that, he is also someone who knows the background of what Macintosh was thinking.
And in some cases even other information.
It's a bit harsh how you attack him.

If there were real problems in his shop because of the staff, you'd better settle it by private message. 
Not publicly.
That shows more character than exposing him publicly.
It's not OK, Jason himself didn't do anything to you, it's probably the employee.
A boss doesn't always see everything his employees do.
They also have bad days like everyone else.


----------



## TSAVJason

ABQ2 said:


> After ordering it in June it's finally due to arrive next week.  I'll source it from a McIntosh MP100 phono stage thru balanced cables so here's hoping the volume works.  It's Mac-Mac so I expect it to.


I’ve learned some cool tricks. Give me a shout when you get your unit. I’ll help you learn to navigate some cool gain structuring.


----------



## axsnyder

ttocs said:


> I assume that the balanced out of the A are the same as the standard Jot2.  Can you expand on the volume limiting?  With my current headphones limiting the volume some would not be an issue.



It was a short endeavor.  But using the Jot-A as a preamp kicked the volume way down on the McIntosh.  It actually gave a lot more play to the knob… and in hindsight, maybe that's a good thing!  I found myself needing to crank the Jot and the McIntosh to levels on both devices I would never listen at.

The Jot-A is more like the Jot-R.  It is powering a 2 OHM headphone, so it is very possible this is a unique butterfly piece of Schiit.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

Lépine said:


> No whoa, I think you got it all wrong.  If you have ever been to The Source AV and bought gear there, you would know that Jason personally gets involved in any issues and sometimes there might be one. I have bought everything from the Source in the last few years because it is just so much better dealing here than elsewhere.  As far as how their team informs you of the good and the bad, Wayne and Jason are always letting you know before you hand over the credit card if there are any known quirks or issues.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Seiji


That's true. Jason handles business. And I know that from a first hand basis.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Sep 12, 2021)

I went to visit the Source AV yesterday.   Wayne spend the afternoon with me.    I was very impressed with their headphone area.    Stock full of headphones from just about every brand.   I think Wayne said they had over 50 headphones available to demo.   Just off the top of my head, I saw Grado, Sennheiser, Focal, Meze, Audeze and more.    Lots of DACs and AMPs too.   Chord Dave, Hugo TT2, mscaler, Phonitor, some Woo amps and lots more.  This place is an audiophile's cornucopia.  I am so glad I took the time to go there.

I went there to audition the MHA200.    It is far smaller than I expected.   It might be smaller than my Bottlehead crack.   I really liked the sound more than I thought I would.   I noticed that they also had a couple Ampsandsound tube amps, so I was able to listen to both a Mogwai SE and Kenzie OG.   I thought my ZMF Verite Closed sounded great with the MHA200.   Huge out of the head sound stage.   Nice warm mids.    Bass was ok.     My HD800S did not sound that great at all.   This was both on the 250 ohm setting. The biggest surprise was how good my Hifiman HE1000SE sounded on it on the 32 ohm setting.    These are very bright headphones.   The MHA200 softened the glare while maintaining clarity and providing a nice tube sound.   My Utopias sounded like my Utopias always sound.   Great with every source.    Nothing unexpected or surprising here.   The only issue I had was with the volume POT.   It has a notch in it and it was not very good.   Very hard to tune it to taste.

The Kenzie had a 32 ohm and 600 ohm output.    So, I had to listen to the 32 ohm with all of my headphones.   I thought it was okay.   It has a very transparent sound.  Sounded very solid state to me.    The Mogwai SE also had the 32 ohm output along with the 8ohn speaker taps.    I didn't like the sound out of it either.   So, I'll have to wait to CanJam to hear these with the 300 or 100 ohm outputs.

They also had a Woo Audio WA8.    I really liked the sound of that little transportable tube amp.  It's very warm.  Makes the HD800S sound like it is bass heavy.    In addition that thing weighs as much as a brick.

thanks so much for hosting my visit.   I appreciate it.


----------



## asaprod

Hey Guys,
As I don't have my MHA200 anymore, I'm selling a brand new pair of matched NOS Mullard 12AT7. They have never been used as I received them after parting off my amp.
Those have the very best specs you can find. PM me if interested!


----------



## ThanatosVI

asaprod said:


> Hey Guys,
> As I don't have my MHA200 anymore, I'm selling a brand new pair of matched NOS Mullard 12AT7. They have never been used as I received them after parting off my amp.
> Those have the very best specs you can find. PM me if interested!


Did you replace it with another tube amp, if so which one?


----------



## asaprod

ThanatosVI said:


> Did you replace it with another tube amp, if so which one?


I don't know if it's the right place to say that, but yes, I replaced it with a Trafomatic Head 2


----------



## J2Ordan

Hello-

New member here. I am currently considering a dedicated headphone amp and the Mc 200 is certainly at the top of my list. 

So might I ask what may it offer with Audeze LCD 3's beyond my c1100? Of course I realize mileage will vary depending on listening conditions and preferences. Just looking for some pre -audition opinions.
BTW, really have enjoyed this thread, drama and all

Listen in Good Health!

Best,

John J


----------



## grokit

This looks great, but for out of my Yggdrasil it sounds like I will want to wait for that next model.


----------



## Crowbar44

J2Ordan said:


> Hello-
> 
> New member here. I am currently considering a dedicated headphone amp and the Mc 200 is certainly at the top of my list.
> 
> ...


Hmmm...so haven't heard the c1100 pre-amp, and don't know how much effort McIntosh put into the headphone portion - maybe Jason can weigh in (if he's not exhausted by this thread yet!).  However, it looks like it has selectable headphone load impendences just like the MHA200, so it looks like some care was taken with the headphone out - but I can't find out how much power is output via the hp jack.  It does have some cross feed, which I haven't heard - but some people love cross feed, some don't.

My 2 cents (not having heard the c1100) is to not bother with the MHA200 - seems like the c1100 kinda has a built in MHA200...


----------



## ThanatosVI

Crowbar44 said:


> Hmmm...so haven't heard the c1100 pre-amp, and don't know how much effort McIntosh put into the headphone portion - maybe Jason can weigh in (if he's not exhausted by this thread yet!).  However, it looks like it has selectable headphone load impendences just like the MHA200, so it looks like some care was taken with the headphone out - but I can't find out how much power is output via the hp jack.  It does have some cross feed, which I haven't heard - but some people love cross feed, some don't.
> 
> My 2 cents (not having heard the c1100) is to not bother with the MHA200 - seems like the c1100 kinda has a built in MHA200...


I'd ask Jason for his opinion, but it seems that the MHA200 isn't necessarily a huge upgrade.
I'd wait for the MHA300 and use the c1100 until then.


----------



## J2Ordan

CrowBar & Thanatos-

Thank you for your replies. Yes, the headphone section of the 1100 is very good  and quite pleasing to my ears. Sitting tight on a headphone amp for now sounds lie a good idea.

As an aside...

Over the past month or so, I have put together two DIY cables for the LCD 3's. The original was too short and an inexpensive extension degraded the sound. Both utilize microphone cable, Carnare and Morgami and are 17 feet in length.Total cost less of than $40 US each). Completed the Morgami today and so far really like it. 

Best,

John


----------



## TSAVJason

ThanatosVI said:


> I'd ask Jason for his opinion, but it seems that the MHA200 isn't necessarily a huge upgrade.
> I'd wait for the MHA300 and use the c1100 until then.


Or use the C1100 as a preamp to the MHA200 as a main amp. That would definitely not suck! In fact it would be a hifi monster.


----------



## J2Ordan

Jason-

Appreciate your input. 

Currently, balanced output 1 of the 1100 feeds a pair of MC 75's (for mids/highs) that  bi-amp to a 275 for the woofers. So...
I surmise,  it'd be correct to use the 200 on balanced output 2 of the 1100? This would then allow all sources available on the 1100 to play through the MPH 200. Trigger cables sould also be eliminated to allow the user to select either speakers or headphone manually without firing up tubes needlessly. (?)

Thanks,

John


----------



## TSAVJason

J2Ordan said:


> Jason-
> 
> Appreciate your input.
> 
> ...



yes exactly and drive the amp rather than unity put it at about the 2 o’clock, as high as 3:00 position. Depending on your cans, at about 40 on your 1100 you should be in McIntosh heaven 👍🏻


----------



## meomap

Jason,

From your shop, did you ever try connect any DAP ( sp2000, iBasso DX220Max or DX300MAX ) Line Out to the MHA200?

Use it as digital player but with amp from MHA200.

If anyone tries at your shop, any feedback?


----------



## J2Ordan

Good Info Jason.

Autumn is a beautiful time in upstate NY. A ride to Audio Classics for an audition may well be forth coming.

Thank you for taking the time to be an additional source in this decision making process. 

John


----------



## TSAVJason

meomap said:


> Jason,
> 
> From your shop, did you ever try connect any DAP ( sp2000, iBasso DX220Max or DX300MAX ) Line Out to the MHA200?
> 
> ...


I haven’t tried it. I’ll ask the team to see if they have.


----------



## TSAVJason

J2Ordan said:


> Good Info Jason.
> 
> Autumn is a beautiful time in upstate NY. A ride to Audio Classics for an audition may well be forth coming.
> 
> ...


Say hello to Steve Rowell for me 👍🏻


----------



## cykin

u2u2 said:


> I can offer up that it has more than enough juice for my HD800 and HD820 yet handles my Focal Elears, Stellias, and Utopias at the other end of the scale with aplomb. Presumably the 800S ought to fit right in.
> My main amp of almost six years is a WA22. Love the Woo and tube rolling with it.
> The MHA200 and WA22 are both running off the same pre amp so I now move back and forth through the day with ease.
> The McIntosh gives all of the satisfaction of the Woo without needing a tube inventory. Gives a closer impedance match with four levels vs high/low. It is more economical in its space needs, uses a third the energy, and if you want spare tubes top tier NOS ones are dirt cheap compared to the Woo.
> Overpriced Amp/Toy? Not compared to many other quality electronics from North America or Europe.


Hi, 

How do you think about Naim HE? does it have a big improvement adding MHA200? Thank you.


----------



## ABQ2

OK, after a three month wait I finally got it yesterday. First impressions? McIntosh sound is good, not breathtaking. Funky volume control? Same as everyone else, even though it’s the McIntosh MP100 phono stage through Mogami balanced cable into the 200. Would have thought that the Mac-Mac combo might solve that but no.



So let me first say that from my limited experience the sound is not better than the headphone output of my Marantz PM8006 integrated amp. Different, yes. Better, no. The Mac sound is richer, more robust. I’ll get used to it and probably prefer it with time. The Marantz emphasizes detail over the Mac.



Having never been accustomed to the Marantz detail I may have ended up valuing it more. From stylus to ear I have the Marantz TT15S1 with Audio Technica AT OC9XML moving coil cartridge, the MP100 phono stage, the 200 and Focal Utopia phones. I think that equals or exceeds the Mac MT5 using the similar Clearaudio table.



My first impression of the 200 is probably spoiled by the huge improvement I got by switching to the Utopia phones. I have noticed improvement with every step I have made but none come close to the Utopias. That being said I will stick with the Macs and get accustomed to their rich signature sound. The detail that is emphasized by the Marantz TT15 is somewhat overwhelmed by the richness of the Macs. Still there and I don’t have to strain to hear it. Still there, just not in Spades.



Volume control? Disappointed as expressed by most on this string. Deal breaker? Nope. A different Ohmic value pot would probably solve that at the expense of some other capability but I doubt it would harm the 200/Utopia combo. Maybe someone will experiment with this and find a DIY to solve this problem. But it’s not that bad. It’s easy to want a volume you can’t get with the knob, just a little too loud or a little too soft, not exactly where you want to be. But the overall sound is good enough for it to be a keeper.


----------



## J2Ordan

ABQ2-

Good write up on your impressions. Given your comments  (and those of others) on the volume control, the MHP 200 appears to be more a headphone amp first and pre amp second.

As far as its sound signature vs the Marantz, there is also the element of solid state vs tube that may be a factor in the overall equation. 

Might is be possible to run the Marantz through the MPH 200? This would make the 200 an amp and the Marantz its pre-amp.

Enjoy the Hunt!

John


----------



## Newsee

meomap said:


> Jason,
> 
> From your shop, did you ever try connect any DAP ( sp2000, iBasso DX220Max or DX300MAX ) Line Out to the MHA200?
> 
> ...


I was trying a McIntosh MHA200 with T+A Solitaire P. While the shop was organizing a dac I quickly listened to the chain from my Hiby R8 DAP SE line out. It was just one song, the "Alone" from Beyries.  The magic might be caused by the MHA200 (my first encounter with a proper tube amp), but I really liked the sound. The bass was so spacey. Actually I liked it even more than from the Burson Conductor 3R preamp out afterwards. It felt somehow more organic. 

Now I am very excited to hear how the Empyrean pairs with the MHA200.


----------



## meomap

Newsee said:


> I was trying a McIntosh MHA200 with T+A Solitaire P. While the shop was organizing a dac I quickly listened to the chain from my Hiby R8 DAP SE line out. It was just one song, the "Alone" from Beyries.  The magic might be caused by the MHA200 (my first encounter with a proper tube amp), but I really liked the sound. The bass was so spacey. Actually I liked it even more than from the Burson Conductor 3R preamp out afterwards. It felt somehow more organic.
> 
> Now I am very excited to hear how the Empyrean pairs with the MHA200.


Thank you very much for your feedback. 
I was thinking of using my DAP LO using 4.4mm out to 2 3pins balanced into MHA200 2 3pins Input.
This is for future tube amp for my bed companion with Utopia and HE1000SE.


----------



## Newsee

meomap said:


> Thank you very much for your feedback.
> I was thinking of using my DAP LO using 4.4mm out to 2 3pins balanced into MHA200 2 3pins Input.
> This is for future tube amp for my bed companion with Utopia and HE1000SE.


Good idea. I will also try from the Kann Cube 4pin  XLR out to the 2x3pin XLR.

Btw the shop also had HE1000se, which I have been eager to listen to for ages, so I tried. It was nice on the MHA200, but lacking in the bass department to my ears compared to the Solitaire P.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Newsee said:


> Good idea. I will also try from the Kann Cube 4pin  XLR out to the 2x3pin XLR.
> 
> Btw the shop also had HE1000se, which I have been eager to listen to for ages, so I tried. It was nice on the MHA200, but lacking in the bass department to my ears compared to the Solitaire P.


All Hifiman cans Lack in the Bass compared to the Solitaire P.


----------



## Crowbar44 (Sep 17, 2021)

ABQ2 said:


> OK, after a three month wait I finally got it yesterday. First impressions? McIntosh sound is good, not breathtaking. Funky volume control? Same as everyone else, even though it’s the McIntosh MP100 phono stage through Mogami balanced cable into the 200. Would have thought that the Mac-Mac combo might solve that but no.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice write up.  I think the "richness" you correctly identify with the MHA200 is the signature McIntosh midrange that defines much of their tubed product line.  I also agree that the MHA200 make a great pairing with Focal cans.  I'm using OG Clears with the MHA 200.  I find the MHA200 adds the perfect amount of musicality to the Clears, which sound a touch too clinical when used with solid state amplification.  Before buying the MHA200 I was probably 50/50 on whether I preferred my LCD-2F's or my OG Clears.  Now that I have the MHA200, I far prefer my OG Clears and rarely listen to my LCD-2F's


----------



## TSAVJason

Crowbar44 said:


> Nice write up.  I think the "richness" you correctly identify with the MHA200 is the signature McIntosh midrange that defines much of their tubed product line.


McIntosh = amazing mids even using their solid state products


----------



## motoxcat

TSAVJason said:


> McIntosh = amazing mids even using their solid state products


In my experience I have found the MHA200 is very responsive to high quality power cords. My first inclination was because the unit is relatively inexpensive compared to typical 2 channel components that I should not spend a lot on a cord. I have found that it responds to power cords as much or more than CD players amps etc. I am using a $3k Synergistic Research Atmosphere X level 3 cord on it. Costs more than the unit itself but for me it is worth it as it brings the HHA200 to a whole new level just as similar level of cords do on my reference CD player and 2 channel amp. Don't hesitate to try some other cords.


----------



## TSAVJason

motoxcat said:


> In my experience I have found the MHA200 is very responsive to high quality power cords. My first inclination was because the unit is relatively inexpensive compared to typical 2 channel components that I should not spend a lot on a cord. I have found that it responds to power cords as much or more than CD players amps etc. I am using a $3k Synergistic Research Atmosphere X level 3 cord on it. Costs more than the unit itself but for me it is worth it as it brings the HHA200 to a whole new level just as similar level of cords do on my reference CD player and 2 channel amp. Don't hesitate to try some other cords.




My bet is you could get the same result with a power cable upgrade from many companies from $100 - $300 range also.


----------



## motoxcat

TSAVJason said:


> My bet is you could get the same result with a power cable upgrade from many companies from $100 - $300 range also.


Agreed that cables in the $100 - $300 would likely be an improvement. I tried 8 different cables ranging in price from modest to expensive and each had its own flavor but for me the SR cable was at another level than the others. I will add that I choose different cables for my CD player and 2 channel amp. I think it is personal preference and synergy with the component or system. My main point is to try other power cables as most any reputable aftermarket cable is likely better than the stock diminutive cable and the price of the component should not limit your personal choice.


----------



## TSAVJason

motoxcat said:


> Agreed that cables in the $100 - $300 would likely be an improvement. I tried 8 different cables ranging in price from modest to expensive and each had its own flavor but for me the SR cable was at another level than the others. I will add that I choose different cables for my CD player and 2 channel amp. I think it is personal preference and synergy with the component or system. My main point is to try other power cables as most any reputable aftermarket cable is likely better than the stock diminutive cable and the price of the component should not limit your personal choice.




That would be the case with almost any powered audio device. Manufacturers don’t typically include high quality cables 

It’s great you found your preference 👍🏻


----------



## ABQ2

ABQ2 said:


> OK, after a three month wait I finally got it yesterday. First impressions? McIntosh sound is good, not breathtaking. Funky volume control? Same as everyone else, even though it’s the McIntosh MP100 phono stage through Mogami balanced cable into the 200. Would have thought that the Mac-Mac combo might solve that but no.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK, so how good is it? Having none to which I can compare I can only offer impressions as to how it sounds compared to the headphone output of my integrated amplifier. At first I didn’t hear a big difference. But having accustomed myself to the McIntosh sound I have to say that it is impressive. And not just impressive but a joy to hear. I’m listening to all of my vinyl and almost all of it sounds better. Almost as if it’s all new. Prior to this improvement meant hearing individual details. Now it’s a symphony of new details. They sound like new records being played for the first time. Yeah, that good.


----------



## funkur

motoxcat said:


> In my experience I have found the MHA200 is very responsive to high quality power cords. My first inclination was because the unit is relatively inexpensive compared to typical 2 channel components that I should not spend a lot on a cord. I have found that it responds to power cords as much or more than CD players amps etc. I am using a $3k Synergistic Research Atmosphere X level 3 cord on it. Costs more than the unit itself but for me it is worth it as it brings the HHA200 to a whole new level just as similar level of cords do on my reference CD player and 2 channel amp. Don't hesitate to try some other cords.


Agree it's very sensitive to power cables.  Just returned a Wireworld Mini-Eclipse - it sounded very detailed but thin.  

Auditioning another one from Audio Envy at the moment, the Ocean Elite 2P.  I liked the sonics and speed of their lower end OE-Light, but wanted a meatier sound.  So far, so good.


----------



## meomap

funkur said:


> Agree it's very sensitive to power cables.  Just returned a Wireworld Mini-Eclipse - it sounded very detailed but thin.
> 
> Auditioning another one from Audio Envy at the moment, the Ocean Elite 2P.  I liked the sonics and speed of their lower end OE-Light, but wanted a meatier sound.  So far, so good.


Ok. Cross out Wireworld....
For future reference....


----------



## Pitachu

warrenpchi said:


> Its alive! 😃  But first, dinner (actually lunch for me).


Looks great, you are so lucky to get it.  Heard from my local distributor that there is a long queue.


----------



## Adamtl (Oct 1, 2021)

Just got mine, using Utopia to start, sounds much fuller with the 100-200ohm selected. Wow, utopias have never ever sounded better..  If it’s this good out of the box I think it’s a keeper.
Also using it with a Roon nucleus and using the Roon app to adjust volume, I keep it a hair past 12 on mcintosh


----------



## axsnyder

Is that the Serene or Spring?  I’m waiting on my Spring 3 to come in for this pairing. Can’t wait!


----------



## Adamtl

It’s a holo spring lvl3 kte that I’ll be sending in to upgrade for a holo may kte as soon as I can. Sounds sublime


----------



## axsnyder

Adamtl said:


> It’s a holo spring lvl3 kte that I’ll be sending in to upgrade for a holo may kte as soon as I can. Sounds sublime


That’s what I have on order, so glad to hear the last part.


----------



## qboogie

Adamtl said:


> Just got mine, using Utopia to start, sounds much fuller with the 100-200ohm selected. Wow, utopias have never ever sounded better..  If it’s this good out of the box I think it’s a keeper.
> Also using it with a Roon nucleus and using the Roon app to adjust volume, I keep it a hair past 12 on mcintosh


What is the effect (or consequence) of setting the MHA200 impedance to something that is higher than the headphone's impedance?


----------



## Adamtl

I’m not able to break it down scientifically but the Utopia is rated at 80 ohms so using the 100-250 ohm as opposed to the 35-100 ohm isn’t going to do any damage, it truly sounds much better using the 100-250 selection for me.


----------



## vo_obgyn (Oct 7, 2021)

I just purchased the MHA200 which replaced my Ray Samuels Emmeline II “The Raptor” Headphone Amp. While the MHA200 is an improvement over The Raptor, I was surprised at how well The Raptor kept up with the MHA200 in all areas. The Raptor is a really nice headphone amp too. My source is the Chord 2Go/Hugo 2 combo. I keep the Hugo 2 at a fixed line level for the MHA200. So far, I’ve listened to my Audeze LCD-X (2021 Driver Update) with the Roon Audeze LCD-X DSP preset and it sounds good. My main IEM’s - Senn ie800 and JH Audio Roxanne’s - sound quite good with no background noise. The MHA200 takes my custom fit Roxanne’s to a whole other level. I will listen to my Senn HD 800 S and my Focal Clears soon. I also have a Mr. Speakers Ether that I’ll listen to soon. So far, I’m glad that I bought it. BTW, my dealer said that McIntosh fixed the wiggly volume control issue and mine feels fine.


----------



## ThanatosVI

qboogie said:


> What is the effect (or consequence) of setting the MHA200 impedance to something that is higher than the headphone's impedance?


The damping factor will be lower, which means less control over the driver.
Often coupled with a slight mid bass bump and roll off in subbass and treble.


----------



## qboogie

ThanatosVI said:


> The damping factor will be lower, which means less control over the driver.
> Often coupled with a slight mid bass bump and roll off in subbass and treble.


Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## vo_obgyn

ThanatosVI said:


> The damping factor will be lower, which means less control over the driver.
> Often coupled with a slight mid bass bump and roll off in subbass and treble.


What happens to the bass and treble when the damping factor is higher (setting the MHA200 impedance to something that is lower than the headphones impedance,) I’m wondering? Thanks in advance for the help.


----------



## Newsee

ThanatosVI said:


> The damping factor will be lower, which means less control over the driver.
> Often coupled with a slight mid bass bump and roll off in subbass and treble.


Sounds like my favoirite signature. Perhaps without the subbass roll off.


----------



## Adamtl

On the 100ohm setting the Utopia has more sub bass then I’ve ever heard it make. It’s like a new headphone, make sure you use a pre amp or volume control somewhere other then the unit itself


----------



## ABQ2

qboogie said:


> What is the effect (or consequence) of setting the MHA200 impedance to something that is higher than the headphone's impedance?


Firstly, I am a retired electrical engineer who has spent most of his life dealing with resistors, capacitors and inductors. At issue are the effects of changing the 32, 100, 250 or 600 Load Ohm resistance and the position of the volume adjustable resistance. So the tube is driving this combination of output resistance and headphone fixed impedance. The headphone fixed impedance is going to respond to the voltages it sees as the result of these choices. With my 80 Ohm headphones the 100 Ohm choice allows the volume control to be the least glitchy, if that term is allowed. Most comfortable.

You may have noticed in the specifications that the power output is consistent at 500mW for each of the Load Ohms selections. So what that means is that if you match the Load Ohms to the headphone Ohms you will have 500 mW in the headphone at some presumed position of the Volume. So if that’s the case the best you can do is to closely match the headphone Ohms and the Load Ohms.

While listening I have switched all of the 32-600 Load positions and that will have a moderate result in the volume I hear. No big deal as far as volume is concerned and while others may notice more effect you have to take the varying headphone into account as well. So, yeah, McIntosh could have used a different design that would have resulted in a less sensitive (glitchy) volume control. But at the end of the day we just end up with a volume control with far less angle play than to what we are accustomed.

And in a less technical respect, the Utopia/MHA200 combo is to die for.


----------



## vo_obgyn (Oct 8, 2021)

ABQ2 said:


> And in a less technical respect, the Utopia/MHA200 combo is to die for.


I’m finding that the MHA200 is a nice match for my Focal cans - the Clear and the Elear. Nice dynamic sound. In addition and as an aside, the Senn HD 800 S cans sound great with the MHA200 as well. So do the Mr. Speakers Ether cans.


----------



## TSAVJason

qboogie said:


> What is the effect (or consequence) of setting the MHA200 impedance to something that is higher than the headphone's impedance?



In the case of McIntosh MHA200 because it’s using autoformers nothing happens of any consequence. However on amplifiers without autoformers it could cause sloppy bass or music that seems lose


----------



## qboogie

TSAVJason said:


> In the case of McIntosh MHA200 because it’s using autoformers nothing happens of any consequence. However on amplifiers without autoformers it could cause sloppy bass or music that seems lose


Thanks for the response. 

Anyone using their MHA200 with either verite open or closed?


----------



## qboogie

vo_obgyn said:


> I’m finding that the MHA200 is a nice match for my Focal cans - the Clear and the Elear. Nice dynamic sound. In addition and as an aside, the Senn HD 800 S cans sound great with the MHA200 as well. So do the Mr. Speakers Ether cans.


Ether 2's impedance is 24, and Ether C Flow is approx 19. Both values are lower than the impedance ranges on the MHA200. You're saying they still sound great? That is reassuring.

I have DCA stealth (impedance is 23 ohms) coming in and am hoping this pairing is heaven and brings something that the TT2/M-scaler or Formula S/Powerman can't provide.


----------



## TSAVJason

qboogie said:


> Ether 2's impedance is 24, and Ether C Flow is approx 19. Both values are lower than the impedance ranges on the MHA200. You're saying they still sound great? That is reassuring.
> 
> I have DCA stealth (impedance is 23 ohms) coming in and am hoping this pairing is heaven and brings something that the TT2/M-scaler or Formula S/Powerman can't provide.




Try your TT2/M scaler with the MHA200 …. It’s pretty stellar


----------



## meomap

TSAVJason said:


> Try your TT2/M scaler with the MHA200 …. It’s pretty stellar


Can MHA200 easily drive LCD5?


----------



## TSAVJason

meomap said:


> Can MHA200 easily drive LCD5?



Well unfortunately we haven’t been able to try that combo yet but based on the specs of both products they should be a pretty good synergy together. I’m told we won’t have any production samples until next week on the LCD5. All that’s out there right now is preproduction review samples and as much as I like most of Audeze products there are times you want to be sure you’re listening to a production unit v a preproduction version since there have been times where the same model unit may have sonic variables between them


----------



## vo_obgyn (Oct 8, 2021)

qboogie said:


> Ether 2's impedance is 24, and Ether C Flow is approx 19. Both values are lower than the impedance ranges on the MHA200. You're saying they still sound great? That is reassuring.
> 
> I have DCA stealth (impedance is 23 ohms) coming in and am hoping this pairing is heaven and brings something that the TT2/M-scaler or Formula S/Powerman can't provide.


I have the original Ether Flow. Not the Ether 2 or Ether C Flow. I used the MHA 200’s lowest impedance setting (32ohm) and the Ether Flow (23 ohm) sounded okay to me. Maybe others can chime in here?


----------



## Onik

Can someone tell me which Balanced tube amp I should go for, 

Woo Audio WA22 or MHA200?

Which one sounds warmer and has better dynamic?


----------



## TSAVJason

Onik said:


> Can someone tell me which Balanced tube amp I should go for,
> 
> Woo Audio WA22 or MHA200?
> 
> Which one sounds warmer and has better dynamic?



The Woo is more traditional in its operation. It’s also a very good amp. The McIntosh has much better mids but you need to be aware it has a gain control v volume control. I personally think they are both great but I lean toward the McIntosh and admit to being a hardcore McIntosh fan because of their huge wonderful midrange presentation.


----------



## cykin

Ordered mha 200 today. Two months wait… choosing power chord for it now!


----------



## ThanatosVI

cykin said:


> Ordered mha 200 today. Two months wait… choosing power chord for it now!


Maybe you enjoy this as input 
https://audiobacon.net/2019/08/17/27-audiophile-power-cables-reviewed/amp/


----------



## Onik

Just read some review and found the MHA200 has issues with Volume pot, is it really a major problem?


----------



## Adamtl

It’s major in the sense that you can’t really use the amp without a pre. You get rewarded when you do that sonically as well so it’s a win win. In a pinch use the volume control on Roon app. I set the volume (gain) to a hair past 12


----------



## TSAVJason

Onik said:


> Just read some review and found the MHA200 has issues with Volume pot, is it really a major problem?



It’s a design feature not a major problem.  That said there are headfiers that either appear not to like it or possibly don’t understand it. Either way there has been some pushback on this particular feature from headfiers.


----------



## u2u2

Onik said:


> Just read some review and found the MHA200 has issues with Volume pot, is it really a major problem?


I made some noise about this early on. It doesn't follow the methods many of us are accustomed to but it does work well once you develop a lighter touch. It is heavenly when paired with a pre amp. Using a Naim Atom HE as a pre and hope to have a McIntosh C8 pre in a couple of days. Had some early tube issues and installed a full new set of OE tubes yesterday. Just over 500 hours on the amp. The amp is now freakin AWESOME... pre amp or not, don't fret over reviews! As noted above, just past 12 is the sweet spot.


----------



## qboogie

Excited. My MHA200 is coming in. Ordered in early May. I'm told this unit will not have a wobbly knob.


----------



## Slim1970

qboogie said:


> Excited. My MHA200 is coming in. Ordered in early May. I'm told this unit will not have a wobbly knob.


Curiously waiting your impressions


----------



## motoxcat

In my opinion too much griping about the volume control. Sure it is sensitive but not really an issue unless you are a total klutz.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Oct 14, 2021)

For those of you on Instagram and enjoy some LCD-5 MHA200 Audioporn 
https://www.instagram.com/p/CU-8X6ejQSM/?utm_medium=share_sheet


----------



## qboogie

Does that mean the MHA200 and LCD-5 are a good match?


----------



## Crgreen

I’ve been using my MHA200 with a Chord Dave, via balanced outputs (an impedance of 66 ohms) into the MHA200 and with Meze Empyrean headphones connected in balanced mode, using the 32 ohm impedance setting.

The Dave can be set for a fixed output (-3dB on the Dave’s volume control) or variable output, so I’ve used the latter into the MHA 200 with that unit’s volume control set at unity gain (12 ‘o clock). I’ve had to increase the Dave’s volume to -3dB — the same as fixed output — for most listening which is a level of 6.2V into the MHA200. Only small increases in volume are necessary after that, depending on source material, and I don’t want to increase the volume above +3dB on the Dave as it then starts to clip. In fact 0 dB is as high as I’ve had to go. I’ve found this a more nuanced means of adjusting volume than using the MHA200 volume control (not wobbly), and I can do it with the remote for the Dave.

Regarding tubes, I’ve replaced the supplied 12AT7s with a matched pair of Cryo Mullard CV4024s I purchased here in the UK. As others have stated, this does make a significant difference to the overall sound. Yes, it is slightly darker, and richer, but I prefer music that way which seems to render instrumental timbre far more realistically than brighter sounding components. Not that the supplied tubes made the unit sound bright, however.

I’m enjoying music through the MHA200 and although the Dave has its own excellent headphone output, I feel I’m getting the detail plus more body and weight; perhaps not quite as transparent but a greater sense of musical flow. I suspect that’s a valve thing. Anyway, I can switch between the two should I wish.


----------



## ABQ2

motoxcat said:


> In my opinion too much griping about the volume control. Sure it is sensitive but not really an issue unless you are a total klutz.


Second that emotion.  Get used to it.  I'm as high was I need to go, audiophilically, if that's a word.


----------



## Newsee

Onik said:


> Just read some review and found the MHA200 has issues with Volume pot, is it really a major problem?


It is not a major problem, it is rather a treefold issue.

1. The volume pot has no resistance at turning it, so too easy to move. Not wobbelig if you do not try to jerk it.  It would be a nicer feeling to have some reistance.

2. Useful range is from 11 o'clock (quiet) to 1 o'clock (already too loud), very steep towards 1 o'clock. 

(1) and (2) together require fine motor skills to get the expected volume. A bit of oversteer when forgetting about it, it gets painfully loud. But, I think one can get used to it easily (pain intensifies the learning effect)

3. When the strenght of the input signal is so unfortunate that the most appropriate volume would be set 3-4 degree pre or past 12 o'clock, it can not be set because the dent brings it back to exact 12 o'clock (as designed, keeping it firmly). Due to (2) it can be a non-neglectable level difference. 
This can be solved by bringing the input signal level to a point where the 12 o'clock hole is not disturbing. 

For some these would be small or no issue, for some it can be a no go. I would wote for 'issue that can be overcome', and enjoy the rest of the great features, especally the beautiful sound.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

qboogie said:


> Does that mean the MHA200 and LCD-5 are a good match?


I have been thoroughly enjoying the combo! I have some tubes coming to roll with the MHA200 as well.  This amp has been a pleasure to listen to with the LCD-5.  Jamming out to live Bob Marley right now, the combo sounds so life-like.


----------



## qboogie

MRphotography said:


> I have been thoroughly enjoying the combo! I have some tubes coming to roll with the MHA200 as well.  This amp has been a pleasure to listen to with the LCD-5.  Jamming out to live Bob Marley right now, the combo sounds so life-like.


Question for you Marco: do the mid-forward LCD-5 and the mid-focused MHA200 present excessive mids? Can there be too much of a good thing?


----------



## Onik (Oct 15, 2021)

Newsee said:


> It is not a major problem, it is rather a treefold issue.
> 
> 1. The volume pot has no resistance at turning it, so too easy to move. Not wobbelig if you do not try to jerk it.  It would be a nicer feeling to have some reistance.
> 
> ...


Im glad I didn't go for this amp, I hated all the cheap amps (Little dot) for the volume pots not being perfect.

I didn't expect this from an expensive brand like Mcintosh, I hope they will fix this issue soon then they will have my money💸


----------



## TSAVJason

Onik said:


> Im glad I didn't go for this amp, I hated all the cheap amps (Little dot) for the volume pots not being perfect.
> 
> I didn't expect this from an expensive brand like Mcintosh, I hope they will fix this issue soon then they will have my money💸




So you want them to change their product because you think their feature makes it cheap? It hasn’t occurred to you that this feature is a deliberate design character? Im not saying you have to like it but this thread is loaded with the “Flaw” comment yet it is a deliberate design feature.


----------



## Adamtl

Deliberate? Why would they do that? We’ve all used headphone amps for years, they all have volume control because they’re all essentially integrated amps.. mcintosh uses 2 tubes for the pre amp yet they expect you to use a pre amp with the amp… that is questionable for sure. It’s the worst volume implementation I’ve encountered in 15 years because there is no volume till 11 then at 1 your ears start to bleed. It’s an abomination but easily worked around by using volume control on streamer (Roon in my case) and the amp sounds amazing so it’s worth the work around.


----------



## TSAVJason

Adamtl said:


> Deliberate? Why would they do that? We’ve all used headphone amps for years, they all have volume control because they’re all essentially integrated amps.. mcintosh uses 2 tubes for the pre amp yet they expect you to use a pre amp with the amp… that is questionable for sure. It’s the worst volume implementation I’ve encountered in 15 years because there is no volume till 11 then at 1 your ears start to bleed. It’s an abomination but easily worked around by using volume control on streamer (Roon in my case) and the amp sounds amazing so it’s worth the work around.



I understand. You don’t like it. No problem. Don’t buy one. If I felt like you do, I sure wouldn’t consider buying one either


----------



## Adamtl

I own one, it’s a very good headphone amp.


----------



## TSAVJason

Adamtl said:


> I own one, it’s a very good headphone amp.


 
I own one! I think it’s great and even better when used as a straight amp. I had to wait until our 3rd shipment to get one because they almost literally flew out of our warehouse. McIntosh does things the McIntosh way. It’s not always what is expected but they listen and learn better than other high end manufacturers. I’m really looking forward to their next adventure into the headphone domain 

That McIntosh midrange is so luscious to my ears 👍🏻


----------



## Onik

TSAVJason said:


> So you want them to change their product because you think their feature makes it cheap? It hasn’t occurred to you that this feature is a deliberate design character? Im not saying you have to like it but this thread is loaded with the “Flaw” comment yet it is a deliberate design feature.


I dont think its deliberate design by mcintosh, its a design issue,I think they really rushed on making this HP AMP.

Now I'm not sure if I hate or like this new amp.

To me this amp is all about how sexy it looks, sound is obviously subjective.

I have a feeling that they might make V2 if not there might be MH300 coming soon🤞🏼


----------



## helljudgement

I'm considering getting an amp preferably tube with a smaller footprint for a seperate desk setup and size wise this seems to fit the bill but the adjustability concerns reported by other users is noteworthy. Hopefully I have the chance to hear it before the year ends.


TSAVJason said:


> a deliberate design feature.


Regarding this design feature, I've only read on mcIntosh's website that the volume knob should be set to center unity gain point when using other components with variable output. What other design feature are you referring to?


----------



## ABQ2

TSAVJason said:


> I own one! I think it’s great and even better when used as a straight amp. I had to wait until our 3rd shipment to get one because they almost literally flew out of our warehouse. McIntosh does things the McIntosh way. It’s not always what is expected but they listen and learn better than other high end manufacturers. I’m really looking forward to their next adventure into the headphone domain
> 
> That McIntosh midrange is so luscious to my ears 👍🏻


I run the MHA200 from the MP100, balanced cable between.  Those are both current production items so the idea that McIntosh didn't intend this is preposturous.  Maybe not what we are used to in terms of volume adjustment but easy to accommodate.  Yeah, and feeding Focal Utopias is incredibly good. 10-4 on the midrange.


----------



## Adamtl

The headphone market is different, most of us don’t have a spare pre lying around to use for a headphone system, I know I don’t. If I wasn’t using a streamer with volume control I’d be forced to go buy a pre amp? And then why did they make a pre amp section in the amp that then needs another pre to work well? To me it’s bananas


----------



## TSAVJason

Adamtl said:


> The headphone market is different, most of us don’t have a spare pre lying around to use for a headphone system, I know I don’t. If I wasn’t using a streamer with volume control I’d be forced to go buy a pre amp? And then why did they make a pre amp section in the amp that then needs another pre to work well? To me it’s bananas



Who says you can’t use the onboard gain control?


----------



## Adamtl (Oct 16, 2021)

Of course that’s an option but it was implemented so poorly that’s it’s no fun to use especially again coming from the headphone world with our normally well thought out volume control like as an example on my feliks euphoria, a real pleasure to use and to be able to fine tune the volume.


----------



## TSAVJason

Adamtl said:


> Of course that’s an option but it was implemented so poorly that’s it’s no fun to use especially again coming from the headphone world with our normally well thought out volume control like as an example on my feliks euphoria, a real pleasure to use and to be able to fine tune the volume.



Implemented poorly? I understand if someone doesn’t like it. But their design implementation is how they chose to make it. So how is that implemented poorly? 

Flaw, wrong, poor implementation all these words to me are simply a denial of a deliberate design feature. Your dealer should have shown you how to use it and explained the differences over other headphone products so you could be clear on your choice to buy one. The flaw I see is buyers not understanding what they bought or are considering buying and how it works.


----------



## ABQ2

Adamtl said:


> The headphone market is different, most of us don’t have a spare pre lying around to use for a headphone system, I know I don’t. If I wasn’t using a streamer with volume control I’d be forced to go buy a pre amp? And then why did they make a pre amp section in the amp that then needs another pre to work well? To me it’s bananas


I'm a vinyl guy so the phono stage pre-amp is not an extra.  The result is so good that the volume issue becomes a non.


----------



## Adamtl

TSAVJason said:


> Implemented poorly? I understand if someone doesn’t like it. But their design implementation is how they chose to make it. So how is that implemented poorly?
> 
> Flaw, wrong, poor implementation all these words to me are simply a denial of a deliberate design feature. Your dealer should have shown you how to use it and explained the differences over other headphone products so you could be clear on your choice to buy one. The flaw I see is buyers not understanding what they bought or are considering buying and how it works.


If Mcintosh had just released an integrated amp that had this type of gain/volume system it would be a disaster.. you either make an integrated amp with a useable volume knob or you make a power amp for use with a pre, If you want your integrated amp to double as a power amp like my Kora you simply make a button that shuts of the pre and disables the volume and then you can use a pre. 
I had to explain to my dealer about the wonky system so he could warn potential buyers that they will need to use a pre amp or volume control on streamer. They had no idea.


----------



## qboogie

TSAVJason said:


> Implemented poorly? I understand if someone doesn’t like it. But their design implementation is how they chose to make it. So how is that implemented poorly?
> 
> Flaw, wrong, poor implementation all these words to me are simply a denial of a deliberate design feature. Your dealer should have shown you how to use it and explained the differences over other headphone products so you could be clear on your choice to buy one. The flaw I see is buyers not understanding what they bought or are considering buying and how it works.


Jason, I'm sorry you spend so much effort being the sole defender of this design choice. A McIntosh rep should really step in and take on that responsibility.


----------



## meomap

Adamtl said:


> If Mcintosh had just released an integrated amp that had this type of gain/volume system it would be a disaster.. you either make an integrated amp with a useable volume knob or you make a power amp for use with a pre, If you want your integrated amp to double as a power amp like my Kora you simply make a button that shuts of the pre and disables the volume and then you can use a pre.
> I had to explain to my dealer about the wonky system so he could warn potential buyers that they will need to use a pre amp or volume control on streamer. They had no idea.


Dealers have no idea....?
Wow, that's embarrassing to hear.....
I am on the sideline to buy or not to buy this amp with Gain Control rather than Volume Control....


----------



## NoTimeFor (Oct 16, 2021)

Just got the MHA200.  My source is Simaudio Moon 390 and using Siltech 550i XLR cable. I really like the sound of the amp. It has that nice clarity that audiophiles look for but also has a just hint of tubie goodness. I am using it with MrSpeaker Aeon closed. When I compare the sound quality from 390 headphone out (which is also pretty nice), MHA200 sounds has that few degrees of refinement. Human voice has more soul and instruments sound clearer with greater tonal accuracy. I am not a much of audio reviewer, so forgive me if my findings make little sense. I did try the amp with much higher priced headphones at the store; Meze Emp and Dan Clark Stealth. Both sounded wonderful, but I liked Emp more than the Stealth. But I am really liking this amp in my setup with Aeon; I honestly do not lust for those expansive cans I tried with at the store (I do want to try Susvara though ...) 

My unit was made sometime in September of this year and volume knob feels good to my liking, but it does have a rather steep gain control. I can see why some people make fuss about it. I use volume control in the 390 and set 200's volume to max. That works fine for me. Roon + Moon 390 + MHA200 + Aeon = Heavenly sound... for me at least


----------



## Adamtl

Try not to max out the gain… go to 1pm it’s way enough gain and sweet spot for noise.


----------



## NoTimeFor

Adamtl said:


> Try not to max out the gain… go to 1pm it’s way enough gain and sweet spot for noise.


I can set it at 2pm as 1pm volume is too low for my preamp's default gain which I do not want to change. When I connect the preamp to my speaker amp, I need to remember to change the gain setting again.


----------



## Adamtl

Ah ok, it’s fine then.


----------



## makan

I am at 1pm with the rme-adi 2 pro feeding it and using the pro’s volume control. It drives my main planar, the Diana phi nicely at the 100 ohm setting. I have just sold my wa33 which had the upgraded Tak rectifier and upgraded EH drivers, and honestly, I don’t miss the wa33…ymmv as of course, this may be expectation bias or/and not-wanting-to-regret-I-sold-the-wa33 bias. 

The odd time I use the mha200’s gain control and it works fine but you do have to get used to the rather narrow range.   If you are not expecting this kind of volume/gain control, I can see how people would not be very happy at all. I can live it and don’t mind it, but would prefer a regular volume control.


----------



## Deleeh

So I can only give you the tip again that I wrote a few pages ago.
If the Dac variable can be adjusted and even has a remote control.
Then it is much more comfortable to be able to adjust the volume from a comfortable sitting position than to have to get up every time.
Or even having to make fine adjustments.

On the Mha 200, the volume simply has to be set to 12 o'clock.
That should be enough up to the sweet spot and louder.

This also gives you more control and if the Dac can adjust the volume well and sensitively, that's fine too.

Even though it may sound stupid, pay attention to this before buying the Dac.
Most of the newer Dacs, especially the Chinese Dacs, have standard features.

In my opinion, this is the best solution currently available.
I understand both sides.
Some have more feeling for it, others have less sensitivity for what Mcintosh actually wanted to give along the way.

It's a bit of a silly comparison, but on my old Harman Kardon 880vxi amp, the potentiometer has more resistance and a bigger feel, and I have to be really careful when turning it up.
From 8 to 9 o'clock, the thing really makes an alarm.
That's roughly 1 cm of travel, which is a lot.
What I would like to say is try to develop a feeling for where is your personal Sweetspot for you.When you dac can‘t be set variable and is fix.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Oct 17, 2021)

qboogie said:


> Question for you Marco: do the mid-forward LCD-5 and the mid-focused MHA200 present excessive mids? Can there be too much of a good thing?


Hello @qboogie I haven't found the MHA200 paired with the LCD5 to have excessive mids.  Obviously this is dependant on your DAC, the source material/recording and what you personally consider excessive mids.   Are you near a dealer so you can go down and give a listen to them?


----------



## TSAVJason

qboogie said:


> Jason, I'm sorry you spend so much effort being the sole defender of this design choice. A McIntosh rep should really step in and take on that responsibility.



I’m not defending it or shilling it. I’m just correcting the understanding people have. What people do with what I tell them is their business


----------



## qboogie (Oct 17, 2021)

I received my MHA200 a couple of days ago. I swapped out the stock tubes and am rolling Sylvania gold pin, black plate  12AT7 tubes. Most of my listening has gone to the 1266 TC + Formula S,  so instead I decided to break out my Verite Open and try them out of the MHA fresh out the box, with TT2/HMS as the DAC. My my my, what a beautiful pairing. The slightly recessed mids on the VO (their only sonic flaw, IMO) have been nicely filled in. EQ is no longer needed thankfully.

I've only put 3 hours or so into listening, but here are my first impressions.

So, besides the McIntosh sumptuous mids, what else exactly am I detecting that makes this amp special? Three words I would use to describe its sound characteristics would be: crystalline, engaging, and contrast.

It's a pretty transparent amp. I can totally understand why some would describe it as "solid-state in presentation with some tubey goodness." When A/Bing between this and the TT2 SE output, nothing obvious is lost or blunted. Realistically though, resolution _probably _takes a small hit compared to the TT2 direct given I am adding an element to the chain. Chord touts clarity/transparency as one of its chief pillars and the MHA200 certainly abides -- however, a subtle crystalline quality is imparted to the music that I find pleasurable. I'm guessing this represents the extra harmonics and tasteful distortion added by the tubes.   

 I do hear background details like synths and minor percussion brought up to the fore a little more. What is more interesting is how the MHA200 adds texture that I find really engaging. There is more static and crunch in electric guitarwork, more coarseness in metallic percussion like hi-hats, more fuzz in synths. With bass guitar, it's easier to appreciate the subtle oscillation of the plucked string. I'm getting nearly as much enjoyment listening to these more hidden aspects of music as I am the more surface-level aspects like the actual composition and tone/timbre, and it's taking me MUCH less effort to focus on them than before. That's what I mean by "engaging."

The best way I can summarize the combined effect is that it is very similar to increasing the image contrast when editing a photograph, making the edges between light / shadow more juxtaposed and making the image "pop" a little more. Resolution only _appears _to be increasing but we know that it's not.  The soundstage dimensions and instrument separation are approximately equal from what I can tell, though I haven't given this aspect that much special focus. 

A phenomenon that I keep encountering when listening to this amp, which echoes the sentiments of others who've posted impressions.

1. I listen to a familiar song and immediately spot a new, minor detail that I had somehow overlooked.
2. I listen to the same detail via the TT2 direct and realize that it was hiding in plain sight among the other sounds, waiting to be discovered.
3. I become driven / addicted to experiencing this phenomenon over and over with all my other favorite tracks.

This amp reminds me that the Verite Open has crazy detail and spatial capabilities, and isn't just the headphone equivalent of a rich beef stew served in a warm crusty bread bowl. Also, I listened with the AB-1266 TC and even though all the above is still true in the regions above say, 1Khz, anything below is just....No. This is not the amp for the TC. Not even close.


----------



## vo_obgyn (Oct 18, 2021)

qboogie said:


> I received my MHA200 a couple of days ago. I swapped out the stock tubes and am rolling Sylvania gold pin, black plate  12AT7 tubes. Most of my listening has gone to the 1266 TC + Formula S,  so instead I decided to break out my Verite Open and try them out of the MHA fresh out the box, with TT2/HMS as the DAC. My my my, what a beautiful pairing. The slightly recessed mids on the VO (their only sonic flaw, IMO) have been nicely filled in. EQ is no longer needed thankfully.
> 
> I've only put 3 hours or so into listening, but here are my first impressions.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your experience. I was wondering, how was your experience with IEM’s? Did you experience any background noise? I hear the slightest background noise with my JH Audio Roxanne’s and Senn IE 800’s. Not too much noise - very low level - just a little. IEM’s sound great otherwise.


----------



## makan

qboogie said:


> I received my MHA200 a couple of days ago. I swapped out the stock tubes and am rolling Sylvania gold pin, black plate  12AT7 tubes. Most of my listening has gone to the 1266 TC + Formula S,  so instead I decided to break out my Verite Open and try them out of the MHA fresh out the box, with TT2/HMS as the DAC. My my my, what a beautiful pairing. The slightly recessed mids on the VO (their only sonic flaw, IMO) have been nicely filled in. EQ is no longer needed thankfully.
> 
> I've only put 3 hours or so into listening, but here are my first impressions.
> 
> ...


I would be interested in your impressions between stock tubes and the sylvania ones.  My impressions with the Diana Phi on this amp is very positive and similar to yours except I would never be able to describe it so adeptly...except, that it is addicting and sounds more vivid


----------



## qboogie (Oct 18, 2021)

makan said:


> I would be interested in your impressions between stock tubes and the sylvania ones.  My impressions with the Diana Phi on this amp is very positive and similar to yours except I would never be able to describe it so adeptly...except, that it is addicting and sounds more vivid


I'll try the stock tubes tonight and report back. It's a great amp. I can't wait to see what they come up with next.

Will also share my playlist later for anyone who is interested.


----------



## qboogie

vo_obgyn said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience. I was wondering, how was your experience with IEM’s? Did you experience any background noise? I hear the slightest background noise with my JH Audio Roxanne’s and Senn IE 800’s. Not too much noise - very low level - just a little. IEM’s sound great otherwise.


I do hear some noise with Campfire Solaris (known to be ultrasensitive) but barely any with Blessing 2 Dusk. I haven't tried repositioning the amp away from my wifi router though. Have you tried putting the tube cage back on to see if blocks RF noise?


----------



## vo_obgyn

qboogie said:


> I do hear some noise with Campfire Solaris (known to be ultrasensitive) but barely any with Blessing 2 Dusk. I haven't tried repositioning the amp away from my wifi router though. Have you tried putting the tube cage back on to see if blocks RF noise?


I’ll put the tube cage back on and see if there is a difference. The amp seems to be well-isolated but I’ll confirm thanks.


----------



## u2u2

The MHA200 has taught me for the ump-teenth time you don't know what you don't know and ought to challenge what you think you know... 
Improving other components, even if you think they are adequate, may have pays offs. 
This amp has plenty of room to improve if you remove constraints.
The latest in my case is with pre amping. Thought I reached my pinnacle with a Naim Atom HE used in pre amp mode supporting the MHA200. End game stuff for me but then, given other MHA200 successes, maybe not. 
Enter a McIntosh C8 pre amp with DA2 DAC module...
A beast of a unit that is built like a tank and seems to have one sole design focus. Make McIntosh amps sound good, and with the MHA200 it does. OMG good... 
Base reaches down into your spine, grabs your soul, and drags you along for a great musical ride. 
The unity detent on the MHA200 is my new sweet spot. I may never touch that volume again.
Haven't found a way to trip this combination up. It even makes streaming Apple Music through a phone sound as if it came off a local server. The Mac DAC is a cut above my Naim as some issues have been resolved. It may even best my Qutest but I need more time to compare.


----------



## ThanatosVI

u2u2 said:


> The MHA200 has taught me for the ump-teenth time you don't know what you don't know and ought to challenge what you think you know...
> Improving other components, even if you think they are adequate, may have pays offs.
> This amp has plenty of room to improve if you remove constraints.
> The latest in my case is with pre amping. Thought I reached my pinnacle with a Naim Atom HE used in pre amp mode supporting the MHA200. End game stuff for me but then, given other MHA200 successes, maybe not.
> ...


How does the MHA200 compare to the headphone out of the C8?


----------



## u2u2

ThanatosVI said:


> How does the MHA200 compare to the headphone out of the C8?


Only took time to give it a few minutes with HD800. Making sure all the features and permutations function correctly, and there are lots of them. Initial impression is better than I remember from trying MHA100 and 150 in past. Those two didn't hook me at all.  Not up to MHA200 but first pass was better than I expected (dangerously so). With other tracks and cans who knows?  Some one not into headphone amps would probably love it in their system. That said, I will be trying it for more lengthly sessions when it has had more running time.


----------



## ABQ2

Not that I have anything for comparisons, I have the MHA200 through balanced cables from the MP100 phono stage and that from a Marantz TT15S1 with Audio Technica AT OC9XML.  OMG


----------



## qboogie

MRphotography said:


> Hello @qboogie I haven't found the MHA200 paired with the LCD5 to have excessive mids.  Obviously this is dependant on your DAC, the source material/recording and what you personally consider excessive mids.   Are you near a dealer so you can go down and give a listen to them?


@MRphotography What tubes are you rolling with this beauty? I can't imagine you're sticking with the stock tubes


----------



## meomap

TSAVJason said:


> I’m not defending it or shilling it. I’m just correcting the understanding people have. What people do with what I tell them is their business


Hi TSAV Jason,
Do you know any dealer in Bay Area have MHA200 to demo?

Thanks.


----------



## TSAVJason

meomap said:


> Hi TSAV Jason,
> Do you know any dealer in Bay Area have MHA200 to demo?
> 
> Thanks.



I’m not 100% sure but try Basil Audio


----------



## meomap

TSAVJason said:


> I’m not 100% sure but try Basil Audio


Tx.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Oct 21, 2021)

qboogie said:


> @MRphotography What tubes are you rolling with this beauty? I can't imagine you're sticking with the stock tubes


I never stick with stock tubes!!!  I always listen first, formulate impressions with the stock tubes, however like any good cook, I make the recipe a little different from the original to make the final dish my own flavor.  Waiting on some amprex tubes now.  If they give me what I am looking for, then I will roll the output tubes as well.


----------



## qboogie

I did a lot more tube research and have some new tubes coming in:

NOS Sylvania JHS-5751 (aka Military spec rebranded Gold brand) black plate, triple mica, square getter. Manufacture date 8/1957. Tube enthusiasts really seem to love this tube for its forward mids,  clarity, and 3-dimensionality. Regarded as one of the holy grail 12AX7 tubes. 

Sylvania Gold Brand 5751 gray plate, triple mica - these were manufactured later,  are very similar to the black plate type variant but differ by having more lush, bloomy, but lifelike characteristics. 

I really love sylvania gold brand because they seem to have pretty reliable construction and sound mid-forward which I like. 
The triple mica configuration of the tubes seems to reduce microphonics and noise, compared to more common 2 mica tubed. This might have caused more noise to be picked up in both the stock tubes and the other pair of sylvania GB-6201 tubes I rolled and posted about earlier. 

Also one of the my Sylvania GB-6201 tubes died after just 5 hrs of use. I will be selling the other tube if anyone is interested in buying. It is compatible with the 12AX7/12AT7/12AU7/5751 tube family. PM if interested


----------



## NoTimeFor (Oct 24, 2021)

Just got Susvara. I think they work fine with the amp. I don't listen loud but with my set up I can go lot louder. The amp volume is at 1:10 o'clock with 100 ohm load. I started listening to these using the stock 4 pin XLR cable. My initial impression was it sounded little bright and bass was lacking. After 2 hours of listening, I changed the cable to stock 1/4 inch cable. BAM!! No longer brightness and bass became punch and deeper. Overall tone is just what I am looking for. I am not sure if the cables have different voicing or the MHA200 sounds different between 1/4 inch verse XLR tab.... Wow these cans are amazing. I feel like my head is out of the headphones and music is coming to my head from all different directions.


----------



## JDragon

qboogie said:


> Ether 2's impedance is 24, and Ether C Flow is approx 19. Both values are lower than the impedance ranges on the MHA200. You're saying they still sound great? That is reassuring.
> 
> I have DCA stealth (impedance is 23 ohms) coming in and am hoping this pairing is heaven and brings something that the TT2/M-scaler or Formula S/Powerman can't provide.


I have a Stealth/MHA200 combo that sounds fantastic. I don't hear any of the lack of slam/dynamics that others have complained about, which I'll chalk up to trying to power the Stealth with anemic amps. The Stealth sounds just as vibrant as my Utopia.

A bonus feature of the Stealth being so hard to power is that it feels like the MHA200's volume knob has a lot more usable area.


----------



## makan

In case anyone is looking for one, regretfully, I am selling mine.


----------



## qboogie

I'm getting a lot of RFI from my modem. I tried putting the tube cage back on, and loosely wrapping the tubes in aluminum foil. Neither method worked. I had to  turn off my wifi router and put my phone on airplane mode, and that eliminated the noise.

How many hours are recommended for burn-in for both the MHA and NOS tubes in general to achieve more mature sound?


----------



## TSAVJason

qboogie said:


> I'm getting a lot of RFI from my modem. I tried putting the tube cage back on, and loosely wrapping the tubes in aluminum foil. Neither method worked. I had to  turn off my wifi router and put my phone on airplane mode, and that eliminated the noise.
> 
> How many hours are recommended for burn-in for both the MHA and NOS tubes in general to achieve more mature sound?



The MHA200 requires no burn in but the NOS will probably require 100 or so hours


----------



## Adamtl (Nov 4, 2021)

qboogie said:


> I'm getting a lot of RFI from my modem. I tried putting the tube cage back on, and loosely wrapping the tubes in aluminum foil. Neither method worked. I had to  turn off my wifi router and put my phone on airplane mode, and that eliminated the noise.
> 
> How many hours are recommended for burn-in for both the MHA and NOS tubes in general to achieve more mature sound?


Mine was close to my modem and streamer and dac with no rfi issues whatsoever, I would suspect based on that, that you have a defective unit. Exchange it

Ps. If you use crappy rca’s it could maybe be the cause, try balanced or better rca’s before exchanging


----------



## TSAVJason

Adamtl said:


> Mine was close to my modem and streamer and dac with no rfi issues whatsoever, I would suspect based on that, that you have a defective unit. Exchange it



I’d like to understand your “defective” conclusion. Please explain at your leisure


----------



## Adamtl

Adamtl said:


> Mine was close to my modem and streamer and dac with no rfi issues whatsoever, I would suspect based on that, that you have a defective unit. Exchange it





TSAVJason said:


> I’d like to understand your “defective” conclusion. Please explain at your leisure


I’m not a tech but if he’s getting major rfi audible interference from a device that I can use beside my modem and other gear and cell phone without any then to me his unit is defective. I couldn’t really say specifically in what way but the mcintosh tech who opens it up will find out. I had a wa33 that was like that but they all were so it was no surprise and obviously not a defect. This is the only report of rfi noise so the likelihood is that his unit is defective


----------



## qboogie

I am using vintage tubes and microphonics may be an issue that the stock tubes don't have. I may try also cleaning the pins on these tubes. 

I'll try the stock tubes tonight and see if I can troubleshoot a bit more. Turning off the wifi is easy enough though inconvenient


----------



## Adamtl

Oh ok, never tried nos tubes in this amp. I find new gold lions a perfect replacement for the stock tubes in all my mcintosh gear, makes everything sound so much better.


----------



## rreynolds

qboogie said:


> I am using vintage tubes and microphonics may be an issue that the stock tubes don't have. I may try also cleaning the pins on these tubes.
> 
> I'll try the stock tubes tonight and see if I can troubleshoot a bit more. Turning off the wifi is easy enough though inconvenient


Recently installed some NOS RCA tubes on my unit and haven't experienced any sort of noise. I do have all my equipment in a separate room from everything else, did have a friend who experienced RFI from a modem/router, but only when it was extremely close to the amplifier. How far away is your setup from other frequency emitting devices?


----------



## qboogie

About 6 feet.


----------



## ttocs

My MHA sits about 5 feet from an access point, laptop, EGPU, etc.  My iPad and iPhone sit about 18 in from the amp.  I have had no RFI issues with the stock or Mullard tubes.

Not sure that this helps you.


----------



## NoTimeFor

Mine is about 10ft away from router and doesn't not suffer from rfi. I am using xlr input cable  However at the store, when i was trying out the amp, it had connected audioquest rca cable and I heard a severe interference when my phone was placed about a feet away from it.


----------



## ochre korg (Nov 6, 2021)

Hello, since a month or 2 I am following a few threads here on head-fi, and this one too, because I’m interested in buying the MHA 200.
My million dollar(😜) newbie question is: I have a Marantz SA 12 SE cd-player and a Meze Empyrean only at this point, if I add the MHA 200 will the sound improve a lot?
And in what way?


----------



## rreynolds

ochre korg said:


> Hello, since a month or 2 I am following a few threads here on head-fi, and this one too, because I’m interested in buying the MHA 200.
> My million dollar(😜) newbie question is: I have a Marantz SA 12 SE cd-player and a Meze Empyrean only at this point, if I add the MHA 200 will the sound improve a lot?
> And in what way?


Yeah the MHA200 has enough juice to power the Empyreans. It's the most solid state sounding tube amp I've heard, so pairing it with an inherently warm headphone might actually give you a neutral presentation. Changing the tubes also altered the sound quite a bit, got alot more soundstage adding some NOS RCA 12AT7's.


----------



## Adamtl

ochre korg said:


> Hello, since a month or 2 I am following a few threads here on head-fi, and this one too, because I’m interested in buying the MHA 200.
> My million dollar(😜) newbie question is: I have a Marantz SA 12 SE cd-player and a Meze Empyrean only at this point, if I add the MHA 200 will the sound improve a lot?
> And in what way?


It will improve beyond your wildest expectations,, in every way. 
Use the volume control on CD player and leave the volume on mha200 at 12 and never touch it.


----------



## ochre korg

Adamtl said:


> It will improve beyond your wildest expectations,, in every way.
> Use the volume control on CD player and leave the volume on mha200 at 12 and never touch it.


This reply alone sounds great 😁 Thanks  👌🏼


----------



## ochre korg

rreynolds said:


> Yeah the MHA200 has enough juice to power the Empyreans. It's the most solid state sounding tube amp I've heard, so pairing it with an inherently warm headphone might actually give you a neutral presentation. Changing the tubes also altered the sound quite a bit, got alot more soundstage adding some NOS RCA 12AT7's.


Thanks for the info 👍🏼


----------



## NoTimeFor

ochre korg said:


> Hello, since a month or 2 I am following a few threads here on head-fi, and this one too, because I’m interested in buying the MHA 200.
> My million dollar(😜) newbie question is: I have a Marantz SA 12 SE cd-player and a Meze Empyrean only at this point, if I add the MHA 200 will the sound improve a lot?
> And in what way?


I demoed the amp w empyrean. They sounded very good with the amp.


----------



## Newsee

ochre korg said:


> Hello, since a month or 2 I am following a few threads here on head-fi, and this one too, because I’m interested in buying the MHA 200.
> My million dollar(😜) newbie question is: I have a Marantz SA 12 SE cd-player and a Meze Empyrean only at this point, if I add the MHA 200 will the sound improve a lot?
> And in what way?


For a month or so I do own the MHA200 and listen to the Empyrean, enjoying every minute. What is very different from my previous experience is the silkyness of the sound, especially the vocals and strings.


----------



## ochre korg

Allright then, can’t wait to hear them 👌🏼


----------



## Crgreen

Newsee said:


> For a month or so I do own the MHA200 and listen to the Empyrean, enjoying every minute. What is very different from my previous experience is the silkyness of the sound, especially the vocals and strings.


I’m also using Empyreans with the MHA200 (32 ohm impedance setting) fed by a Dave DAC, using the Dave’s variable output (MHA200 volume control at 12) - balanced in and out. MHA200 with the Empyreans is a combination I can definitely recommend: vibrant, colourful and smooth.

I replaced the supplied valves with NOS Cryo Mullard CV4024s and Electro-Harmonix Gold 12BH7s. The former took a while to burn in but now sound glorious.


----------



## qboogie

Please educate me. What's the general effect of upgrading 12BH7s? I had considered rolling these tubes. 

I'm aware the effects vary depending on tube, but are there generalizations that can be made -- smoothness, resolution, dimensionality, etc?


----------



## ABQ2

I'm running the Focal Utopia from the MHA200  and it runs dead quiet, most of the time.  But sometimes I hear a hum.  I'm assuming it's power system noise but can it be the 200?


----------



## ThanatosVI

ABQ2 said:


> I'm running the Focal Utopia from the MHA200  and it runs dead quiet, most of the time.  But sometimes I hear a hum.  I'm assuming it's power system noise but can it be the 200?


Most likely the tubes.
Quite normal on most tube amps


----------



## qboogie

Yeah, the noise was coming from my sylvania tubes.


----------



## ABQ2

Any particular tube less susceptible to this noise issue?  It does seem to be getting less frequent.  Does the noise dissipate as the tube ages?


----------



## Adamtl

Gold lions are silent


----------



## keysmebaby

Lovely poisonous light!  It's the first time I've seen a light like this. Can you see well even when it's not dark?


----------



## TSAVJason

keysmebaby said:


> Lovely poisonous light!  It's the first time I've seen a light like this. Can you see well even when it's not dark?



Yes definitely. 💡


----------



## qboogie

keysmebaby said:


> Lovely poisonous light!  It's the first time I've seen a light like this. Can you see well even when it's not dark?


It's a very eye catching and cute amp. 

IMO the McIntosh  signature aesthetic is only topped by Auris' designs such as the Headonia or the Nirvana. Really gorgeous design from both camps though


----------



## meomap

Can someone compare MHA200 vs WA22 (2nd gen)?
Cost the same...

Appreciated......


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

Happy Saturday guys!  I have been working on this review of the MHA200 for several weeks now for @TSAVJason , and I am excited to share my thoughts with you.  I hope you enjoy this video and consider subscribing to The Source Audio Video Design Group's YouTube Channel.


----------



## qboogie

Yes finally a new review!  Can't wait to dig in. Thanks @MRphotography


----------



## J2Ordan

Nice Review!
Thanks for posting.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

qboogie said:


> Yes finally a new review!  Can't wait to dig in. Thanks @MRphotography


Thank you! I hope you enjoy it.


----------



## qboogie

MRphotography said:


> Thank you! I hope you enjoy it.


I enjoyed the review. I like that you refer to individual songs and touch on headphone pairings that many of us have.

I have to agree 100% with you about the verite open sounding incredible with the MHA200. The amp builds on top of the verite's already impressive holographic dimensionality, brings forward and enriches that midrange,  smooths out a little of that 8k peak that pops up sometimes, and is judicious about adding extra warmth to a headphone that is already warm. 

I tried pairing the Stealth with the 200 and was let down by its bass presentation a bit.  Not enough grunt for my tastes, and wasn't as good as from the TT2 balanced or from the Formula S. The Stealth is actually kind of hard to drive properly.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Nov 14, 2021)

meomap said:


> Can someone compare MHA200 vs WA22 (2nd gen)?
> Cost the same.


I will see if I can put something together in the future.


qboogie said:


> I enjoyed the review. I like that you refer to individual songs and touch on headphone pairings that many of us have.
> 
> I have to agree 100% with you about the verite open sounding incredible with the MHA200. The amp builds on top of the verite's already impressive holographic dimensionality, brings forward and enriches that midrange,  smooths out a little of that 8k peak that pops up sometimes, and is judicious about adding extra warmth to a headphone that is already warm.
> 
> I tried pairing the Stealth with the 200 and was let down by its bass presentation a bit.  Not enough grunt for my tastes, and wasn't as good as from the TT2 balanced or from the Formula S. The Stealth is actually kind of hard to drive properly.


I prefer the Stealth off the TT2 as well.  That is Dan’s home desktop solidstate amp I believe and I bet he voiced the headphones some with that amp and his Hugo2/2go because the stealth sounds better imo  paired with the TT2 vs several amps I have listened to them on from a current and a FR perspective too imo. I believe you are right about the current demands too of the Stealth.


----------



## ABQ2

Adamtl said:


> Gold lions are silent


I'm looking at the Mullards.  Have you tried them?


----------



## Adamtl (Nov 15, 2021)

No I’m sorry I haven’t but I hear they are almost as good as good lions. Audio research guys swear by them


----------



## TSAVJason

ABQ2 said:


> I'm looking at the Mullards.  Have you tried them?



Mullards make the MHA200 a tad more aggressive. Assertive in dynamics


----------



## tomina666

hello, wanted to be my first tube amp… I have Hugo2, Hifiman Ananda.  I fell in love with mcintosh.  But I don't have that much money yet, I'm considering a cheaper option - xDuoo TA-26 And eventually Macintosh in future.  do you think this will be a good option for dac hugo2?


----------



## ThanatosVI

I wonder how well the new preamp performs as headamp 

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/preamplifiers/C12000


----------



## TSAVJason

ThanatosVI said:


> I wonder how well the new preamp performs as headamp
> 
> https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/preamplifiers/C12000



Well I’m sure very well but you could purchase 6 MHA200’s for the price of the C12000


----------



## ThanatosVI

TSAVJason said:


> Well I’m sure very well but you could purchase 6 MHA200’s for the price of the C12000


Makes sense, the MHA200 is an exceptionally affordable McIntosh


----------



## doggiemom

ThanatosVI said:


> I wonder how well the new preamp performs as headamp
> 
> https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/preamplifiers/C12000


Wow..... this seems like..... a lot.


----------



## xtiva

Hi all,

Just got MHA200 to demo but when i put preamp in front of the amp, volume level is so low?  I have put volume on MHA200 to unity position but even at full volume on my preamp, volume level on the MHA200 is very low?  Is there other setting that I need to do here?

Or should I put MHA200 onto higher volume but looks like the manual says to put it into Unity, ie 12 o'clock position if Preamp is used?

Thanks.


----------



## doggiemom

xtiva said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just got MHA200 to demo but when i put preamp in front of the amp, volume level is so low?  I have put volume on MHA200 to unity position but even at full volume on my preamp, volume level on the MHA200 is very low?  Is there other setting that I need to do here?
> 
> ...


What preamp are you using?  I'm using the balanced out of a McIntosh D11 and it plenty loud with the preamp set to ~85%.  I do run with the impedence knob at 250 Ohms instead of 100 for Utopia.


----------



## Adamtl

If using rca the signal is lower so raise the volume to 2pm on mcintosh, there’s no rule, unity is ok for most but going past it is absolutely ok


----------



## xtiva

Oh thanks I am using SPL Phonitor X as my preamp using XLR and impedance for headphone is set at 600 for HD800S..  if I put MHA200 volume to about 2 o'clock I only need to go about 50% on my preamp... is this setting ok?


----------



## Adamtl

Yes


----------



## xtiva

Adamtl said:


> Yes


Thanks so much for the info.

This amp is made for vocal music from my initial impressions..


----------



## Adamtl

Mcintosh is very mid centric I’m not surprised to hear that!


----------



## TSAVJason

xtiva said:


> Thanks so much for the info.
> 
> This amp is made for vocal music from my initial impressions..



12 is your starting point. You should be able to get a gain match between 12-3 on the MHA200…… move gently on the gain control.


----------



## xtiva

TSAVJason said:


> 12 is your starting point. You should be able to get a gain match between 12-3 on the MHA200…… move gently on the gain control.


Thanks yeah that was what I was doing and 2 o'clock looked to be the best position


----------



## TSAVJason

xtiva said:


> Thanks yeah that was what I was doing and 2 o'clock looked to be the best position



SPL and McIntosh seem to work very well together in this product scenario. I’ve tried it many times using the SPL DAC, Hugo2, Weiss 501 DAC and of course a McDAC 😂. The Phonitor should be pretty nice on your ears with the MHA200


----------



## doggiemom

TSAVJason said:


> ...move gently on the gain control.


The woman who cleans our house every couple of weeks is big on dusting.  She unintentionally turned the volume knob on the MHA200 up to max last time she was here dusting, and I didn't realize it so just plopped my headphones on and started playback.... Ouch!    At least now I know that the amp can get plenty loud!


----------



## cykin

xtiva said:


> Oh thanks I am using SPL Phonitor X as my preamp using XLR and impedance for headphone is set at 600 for HD800S..  if I put MHA200 volume to about 2 o'clock I only need to go about 50% on my preamp... is this setting ok?


do you like 600ohms more than 250ohms for HD800s ?


----------



## qboogie

doggiemom said:


> The woman who cleans our house every couple of weeks is big on dusting.  She unintentionally turned the volume knob on the MHA200 up to max last time she was here dusting, and I didn't realize it so just plopped my headphones on and started playback.... Ouch!    At least now I know that the amp can get plenty loud!


Whoa. I'm sorry for your ears. If you watch the Z reviews video (say what you will about his content) on the mha200, he uses a piece of sticky tack to secure the volume knob so that doesn't accidentally become ear splitting


----------



## Crowbar44

OK...so my MHA-200 has developed significant static in the left channel on startup...it goes away once the amp in warmed up after 30 min...

I suspect a bad tube...

Question...do the tubes just "pull out" on the MHA-200?  Any special considerations when pulling tubes?

Plan to swap the left and right tubes to see if the static switches channels...

Many thanks all!


----------



## cykin

OK...so my MHA-200 has developed significant static in the left channel on startup...it goes away once the amp in warmed up after 30 min... <== same with me, but sometimes left or right. goes away after a while


----------



## u2u2

Crowbar44 said:


> OK...so my MHA-200 has developed significant static in the left channel on startup...it goes away once the amp in warmed up after 30 min...
> 
> I suspect a bad tube...
> 
> ...


First time out the tubes will be on the very tight side. Just work them slowly up with a little patience and an eye to keeping them aligned so you don’t bend the pins. I suggest a little Deoxit or similar on the pins when you reinstall them. Makes it much easier and that alone may solve the problem. I am on my second MHA200 and third set of OEM tubes… 2 X red plates and now static as well. Power tubes every time so I would check those first. On the plus side, if you need to replace any tubes there are many good performing and affordable tubes available for this amp.


----------



## rreynolds

Crowbar44 said:


> OK...so my MHA-200 has developed significant static in the left channel on startup...it goes away once the amp in warmed up after 30 min...
> 
> I suspect a bad tube...
> 
> ...


They're easier to take out if you add a little wiggle, same with inserting them in. Rolled some NOS RCA's in place of the stock tubes.


----------



## louis9

same here, i heard static on my HD800s when the volume at 0, not on abyss 1266 though


----------



## xtiva

louis9 said:


> same here, i heard static on my HD800s when the volume at 0, not on abyss 1266 though



I had exact same issue with HD800, only on the right hand side.  Though when removing the RCA/XLR cable, the noise went away.


----------



## Yesthereisgasinthecar

tomina666 said:


> hello, wanted to be my first tube amp… I have Hugo2, Hifiman Ananda.  I fell in love with mcintosh.  But I don't have that much money yet, I'm considering a cheaper option - xDuoo TA-26 And eventually Macintosh in future.  do you think this will be a good option for dac hugo2?


Absolutely. I personally do not care for the SE headphone out on my Hugo 2 with headphones (IEMS seem fine) and use tube amps to warm the sound up a bit. Buy what you can afford, enjoy the music along the way, and the aspirational gear will eventually come.


----------



## TSAVJason

qboogie said:


> Whoa. I'm sorry for your ears. If you watch the Z reviews video (say what you will about his content) on the mha200, he uses a piece of sticky tack to secure the volume knob so that doesn't accidentally become ear splitting


😳 ouch!


----------



## Crowbar44

rreynolds said:


> They're easier to take out if you add a little wiggle, same with inserting them in. Rolled some NOS RCA's in place of the stock tubes.


Yup - it turns out one of the 12BH7a's went bad.  When I swapped the 12BH7a's from left to right, the static moved from left to right...though once the amp is warmed up for about 30 min, the static is almost completely gone.

Stock tubes are about 6 months old...but full disclosure, I accidently left the amp running continuous sound via a video game for around a week a few months ago - so I'm not completely surprised a tube went bad...

I have a new set of stock 12BH7a's on order from McIntosh...of note, McIntosh only warranty's tubes for 60 days...

Does anyone know who makes the stock 12BH7a's for McIntosh?  Suspect I could probably save $20 a tube going that route...

Cheers


----------



## TSAVJason

Crowbar44 said:


> Yup - it turns out one of the 12BH7a's went bad.  When I swapped the 12BH7a's from left to right, the static moved from left to right...though once the amp is warmed up for about 30 min, the static is almost completely gone.
> 
> Stock tubes are about 6 months old...but full disclosure, I accidently left the amp running continuous sound via a video game for around a week a few months ago - so I'm not completely surprised a tube went bad...
> 
> ...



JJ makes the tubes you are asking about.


----------



## Crowbar44

TSAVJason said:


> JJ makes the tubes you are asking about.


Thanks Jason - interestingly, can't find a price online for the JJ 12BH7A that is cheaper than what McIntosh is charging...guess I'll stick with stock.


----------



## TSAVJason

Crowbar44 said:


> Thanks Jason - interestingly, can't find a price online for the JJ 12BH7A that is cheaper than what McIntosh is charging...guess I'll stick with stock.



Probably because McIntosh is their biggest client so they price match to keep McIntosh happy. The 12BH7a doesn’t really affect the sound so that tube value from nearly any supplier is very likely going to keep the MHA200 sound signature in tact.


----------



## Joaquin Dinero

TSAVJason said:


> Probably because McIntosh is their biggest client so they price match to keep McIntosh happy. The 12BH7a doesn’t really affect the sound so that tube value from nearly any supplier is very likely going to keep the MHA200 sound signature in tact.


What is that tube for if it doesn't affect the sound ?


----------



## TSAVJason

Joaquin Dinero said:


> What is that tube for if it doesn't affect the sound ?



The 12BH7a …. The output tubes. You can replace them with almost any good tube of equivalent value and likely won’t change the sound much if at all.


----------



## chriscarstens

I tried this amp at the SoCal CanJam.  I was surprised by how small it was.


----------



## Slim1970

chriscarstens said:


> I tried this amp at the SoCal CanJam.  I was surprised by how small it was.


How did it sound to you? I have one incoming?


----------



## vo_obgyn

Crowbar44 said:


> Yup - it turns out one of the 12BH7a's went bad.  When I swapped the 12BH7a's from left to right, the static moved from left to right...though once the amp is warmed up for about 30 min, the static is almost completely gone.
> 
> Stock tubes are about 6 months old...but full disclosure, I accidently left the amp running continuous sound via a video game for around a week a few months ago - so I'm not completely surprised a tube went bad...
> 
> ...


I was wondering, how much would it cost to get a new set of tubes from McIintosh through your dealer?


----------



## TSAVJason

vo_obgyn said:


> I was wondering, how much would it cost to get a new set of tubes from McIintosh through your dealer?



That would depend on the dealer and country. As a reference about $220-250 USD depending on the variables I just provided.


----------



## cykin

I am still in warranty. The dealer is going to send me the new tube. Cheers


----------



## vo_obgyn

TSAVJason said:


> That would depend on the dealer and country. As a reference about $220-250 USD depending on the variables I just provided.


Ok thanks Jason


----------



## James824

On my short list for a tube amp for my main system.


----------



## qboogie

James824 said:


> On my short list for a tube amp for my main system.


Which cans will you be using with this amp?


----------



## Slim1970

qboogie said:


> Which cans will you be using with this amp?


How does the TC’s sound on the MHA200?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Slim1970 said:


> How does the TC’s sound on the MHA200?


Very interesting question. 
The TC should be one of the few with too high power requirements for the MHA200


----------



## James824

I will be using HD800


----------



## Blacksun

Noob question here...  Are you not supposed to leave your tube amps on?  I listen to mine daily and typically leave them along with the DAC always on...


----------



## ThanatosVI

Blacksun said:


> Noob question here...  Are you not supposed to leave your tube amps on?


You are supposed to turn them off after usage.


----------



## Slim1970

ThanatosVI said:


> Very interesting question.
> The TC should be one of the few with too high power requirements for the MHA200


That’s what I want to know. Although, I’ll be using some easier to drive headphones with it as well when I get my unit.


----------



## rreynolds

Blacksun said:


> Noob question here...  Are you not supposed to leave your tube amps on?  I listen to mine daily and typically leave them along with the DAC always on...


Every tube has a lifespan, it's best to turn them off after listening.


----------



## qboogie

Slim1970 said:


> How does the TC’s sound on the MHA200?



I found the TC bass to be markedly reduced and thinner compared to the TT2 and Formula S, but the rest of the FR was pretty good actually. The TC mids get a nice boost compared to those same amps. I tried the first two impedance range settings with similar results. Honestly didn't give it a lot of time, so maybe I'll go back and do a volume matched A/B test. I am guessing  there's just not as much current coming out of this amp


----------



## qboogie

James824 said:


> I will be using HD800


I think you're going to like what you hear if you decide to try them together. The multiple impedance settings make it pretty versatile if using multiple cans. At this price range, it's competing with Feliks Euforia and ZMF pendant SE. It's just a no-go situation with hard to drive planars


----------



## Newsee

Blacksun said:


> Noob question here...  Are you not supposed to leave your tube amps on?  I listen to mine daily and typically leave them along with the DAC always on...


Actually the MHA200 turns to stanby automaticaly if no input signal for 30 min, so difficult to keep it always on.


----------



## cykin

Does any one know which tubes are for left and right? V1, 2, 3, 4. Thanks


----------



## qboogie

Newsee said:


> Actually the MHA200 turns to stanby automaticaly if no input signal for 30 min, so difficult to keep it always on.


That auto-standby feature can be turned off by  holding down the power button until the indicator blinks.


----------



## Adamtl

cykin said:


> Does any one know which tubes are for left and right? V1, 2, 3, 4. Thanks


Mcintosh is self biased, doesn’t matter


----------



## u2u2

Adamtl said:


> Mcintosh is self biased, doesn’t matter


True, right until you try to figure out which tube in your new set is the bad one... Having had three sets go bad so far I think the info would be useful.


----------



## Crowbar44

Blacksun said:


> Noob question here...  Are you not supposed to leave your tube amps on?  I listen to mine daily and typically leave them along with the DAC always on...


So...it's true that the amp sounds best when fully warmed up, I find it sounds best after about 30 min.  But to save the tubes, which will burn out like a light bulb over time, you should probably turn it off when done listening...unless you want to go through tubes fast!


----------



## cykin

u2u2 said:


> True, right until you try to figure out which tube in your new set is the bad one... Having had three sets go bad so far I think the info would be useful.


my mha200 v1 v2 Left and v3 v4 Right


----------



## Newsee

Who can spot the anomaly on this picture?






In the wake of an earlier post on this thread the unit went to McIntosh repair immediately through my favourite hi-fi shop. Thanks to them I was still able to enjoy an MHA200 in a form of a temporary replacement unit during the waiting. Now it is back, all good, one tube had to be replaced.

First newbe question: One tube? Are they not supposed to be matching pairs? 

Second thoughts: I am completely new to tube amps. If this is a common issue with possible heavy consequesces, should it not be described in the manual with some illustrations? Are there safety circuits in the MHA200 that could avoid the heavy consequences in case the red plate tube goes off when it is not recognised in advance? (Sorry for the dusty picture, the mash was removed first time after two months of ownership)


----------



## u2u2

Newsee said:


> Who can spot the anomaly on this picture?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Had a similar experience and McIntosh did their best through my dealer... I believe McIntosh is having trouble getting reliable power tubes as most of the problematic tube posts in this thread are the 12BH7s. I suggest just enjoy the amp as is but maybe lay in a spare set of non McIntosh 12BH7 in case you get red plates again... They are easy to change out. Several users have posted good alternatives in this thread. I went with Electro-Harmonix 12BH7 Gold in matched sets. Tubes are imperfect but worth the effort to get right.


----------



## funkur

u2u2 said:


> Had a similar experience and McIntosh did their best through my dealer... I believe McIntosh is having trouble getting reliable power tubes as most of the problematic tube posts in this thread are the 12BH7s. I suggest just enjoy the amp as is but maybe lay in a spare set of non McIntosh 12BH7 in case you get red plates again... They are easy to change out. Several users have posted good alternatives in this thread. I went with Electro-Harmonix 12BH7 Gold in matched sets. Tubes are imperfect but worth the effort to get right.


Had the same issue here but it developed a few weeks after getting the amp.  Dealer sent the tubes back to Mc and offered me a credit to offset buying the EH Gold tubes.  

FWIW, Mc claimed they couldn't find an issue with the tubes, but the EH Golds have been great going on 4.5 months now.


----------



## TSAVJason

funkur said:


> Had the same issue here but it developed a few weeks after getting the amp.  Dealer sent the tubes back to Mc and offered me a credit to offset buying the EH Gold tubes.
> 
> FWIW, Mc claimed they couldn't find an issue with the tubes, but the EH Golds have been great going on 4.5 months now.



McIntosh almost never disputes a tube issue during the 90 day tube warranty


----------



## funkur

TSAVJason said:


> McIntosh almost never disputes a tube issue during the 90 day tube warranty


I was a little surprised too, but the dealer's staff are old friends and hook me up all the time, so I didn't want to press the issue.


----------



## TSAVJason

funkur said:


> I was a little surprised too, but the dealer's staff are old friends and hook me up all the time, so I didn't want to press the issue.



It is very odd. In 18 years of being a McDealer I’ve never had this happen. It does seem your dealer offered a good option for you though.


----------



## vo_obgyn

Newsee said:


> Who can spot the anomaly on this picture?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is the anomaly the reddish area on the tube? What is it called when this happens to a tube?


----------



## Newsee

vo_obgyn said:


> Is the anomaly the reddish area on the tube? What is it called when this happens to a tube?


Yes, that is. It is called red plating. 
The protective mesh above the tubes also became quite hot, it was uncomfortable to touch, where it is normally just pleasantly warm. 
Maybe that is how I have noticed it.

Some fun measurements after removing the mesh:
This is the normal tube. The red dot on the tube is the laser pointer of the temperature scanner.





This is the plate of the red plated tube





This is when I managed to hit the heating wire around the top of the plate with the scanner:


----------



## vo_obgyn (Dec 20, 2021)

Newsee said:


> Yes, that is. It is called red plating.
> The protective mesh above the tubes also became quite hot, it was uncomfortable to touch, where it is normally just pleasantly warm.
> Maybe that is how I have noticed it.
> 
> ...


Interesting, thanks for the illustrations and explanation. I had the Ray Samuels Emmeline II “The Raptor” tubed headphone amp and now the McIntosh MHA-200 and have not seen this anomaly yet. Not glad that your tube red plated but good for me to see what it looks like.


----------



## u2u2

Suggested Rule #1 for MHA200 owners… 

‘Don’t talk about Red Plating.”

Posted about mine yesterday and today my third McIntosh12BH7A bites the dust. 
Enjoying a little solid state by way of Chord Anni as the McIntosh cools down for some new tubes.


----------



## vo_obgyn

TSAVJason said:


> Probably because McIntosh is their biggest client so they price match to keep McIntosh happy. The 12BH7a doesn’t really affect the sound so that tube value from nearly any supplier is very likely going to keep the MHA200 sound signature in tact.


I’m finding the JJ 12BH7A tubes at several places for about $20.


----------



## funkur (Dec 20, 2021)

Deleted


----------



## funkur

u2u2 said:


> Suggested Rule #1 for MHA200 owners…
> 
> ‘Don’t talk about Red Plating.”
> 
> ...



Damn. Can’t trust those basic Mc/JJ tubes.


----------



## Newsee

u2u2 said:


> Suggested Rule #1 for MHA200 owners…
> 
> ‘Don’t talk about Red Plating.”
> 
> ...


Did not you say you went for Electro-Harmonix 12BH7 Gold tubes?


----------



## u2u2

Newsee said:


> Did not you say you went for Electro-Harmonix 12BH7 Gold tubes?


Yes and I used a set while I waited for McIntosh to follow through on my warranty… That took many weeks… They sent me a full replacement set of 4 tubes, drivers gave up first (noisey), and today the power tube red plating. Rolled in an unused pair of EH 12BH7 this afternoon and they work beautifully. I now have 2 sets of good EH power tubes and a couple of sets of Mullards (4024 & 6201) for drivers. No more McIntosh tubes for this amp. Been more tube changes in this amp than I care to count. I bought it with the illusion I wouldn’t tube roll as I have my Woo amps for that. Could not have been more wrong.


----------



## Slim1970

u2u2 said:


> Yes and I used a set while I waited for McIntosh to follow through on my warranty… That took many weeks… They sent me a full replacement set of 4 tubes, drivers gave up first (noisey), and today the power tube red plating. Rolled in an unused pair of EH 12BH7 this afternoon and they work beautifully. I now have 2 sets of good EH power tubes and a couple of sets of Mullards (4024 & 6201) for drivers. No more McIntosh tubes for this amp. Been more tube changes in this amp than I care to count. I bought it with the illusion I wouldn’t tube roll as I have my Woo amps for that. Could not have been more wrong.


How do the 6201's sound in the MHA200?


----------



## rreynolds

u2u2 said:


> Yes and I used a set while I waited for McIntosh to follow through on my warranty… That took many weeks… They sent me a full replacement set of 4 tubes, drivers gave up first (noisey), and today the power tube red plating. Rolled in an unused pair of EH 12BH7 this afternoon and they work beautifully. I now have 2 sets of good EH power tubes and a couple of sets of Mullards (4024 & 6201) for drivers. No more McIntosh tubes for this amp. Been more tube changes in this amp than I care to count. I bought it with the illusion I wouldn’t tube roll as I have my Woo amps for that. Could not have been more wrong.


Replaced the stock tubes on my unit with Tung Sol 12BH7A and RCA 12AT7's. No issues and been used daily now for months.


----------



## u2u2

Slim1970 said:


> How do the 6201's sound in the MHA200?


With headphones I find them more to my tastes than the stock tubes or CV4024. On the bright side when using IEMs. Need to get more time on them as the McIntosh power tubes were not up to par when I rolled the 6201s in. Foolishly I left them in till they red plated. My Sure SE846s, as an example, were unusable with the stock power tubes but are now decent but not great. My Utopias make me regret not ordering a few sets. The grade I bought are no longer available.


----------



## Slim1970

u2u2 said:


> With headphones I find them more to my tastes than the stock tubes or CV4024. On the bright side when using IEMs. Need to get more time on them as the McIntosh power tubes were not up to par when I rolled the 6201s in. Foolishly I left them in till they red plated. My Sure SE846s, as an example, were unusable with the stock power tubes but are now decent but not great. My Utopias make me regret not ordering a few sets. The grade I bought are no longer available.


It seems that you're not the only one experiencing this red plate issue with the MHA200. I have a MHA200 coming soon, hence my interest into some of these issues. I'm looking at a set of Mullard 6201's as a tube option and I was curious to how they sound. The Utopia's is one of the headphones I'm looking forward to hearing with the MHA200. 

Is the red plating a tube defect or is it something the MHA200 doing to cause it?


----------



## vo_obgyn

Slim1970 said:


> It seems that you're not the only one experiencing this red plate issue with the MHA200. I have a MHA200 coming soon, hence my interest into some of these issues. I'm looking at a set of Mullard 6201's as a tube option and I was curious to how they sound. The Utopia's is one of the headphones I'm looking forward to hearing with the MHA200.
> 
> Is the red plating a tube defect or is it something the MHA200 doing to cause it?


I’ve had my MHA200 for a few months now and no red plating with the original stock tubes yet. I’m thinking that it is tube issue for some and not an inherent MHA200 (design) problem. But I am following this thread closely.


----------



## Slim1970

vo_obgyn said:


> I’ve had my MHA200 for a few months now and no red plating with the original stock tubes yet. I’m thinking that it is tube issue for some and not an inherent MHA200 (design) problem. But I am following this thread closely.


Thanks for the response. Tube issues I can deal with. Problems with the unit itself would be a little tougher to handle.


----------



## Newsee

Slim1970 said:


> It seems that you're not the only one experiencing this red plate issue with the MHA200. I have a MHA200 coming soon, hence my interest into some of these issues. I'm looking at a set of Mullard 6201's as a tube option and I was curious to how they sound. The Utopia's is one of the headphones I'm looking forward to hearing with the MHA200.
> 
> Is the red plating a tube defect or is it something the MHA200 doing to cause it?


My MHA200 went to McIntosh Service with the red plating tube.  They told it was a tube issue, tube replaced. So far so good.


----------



## Slim1970

Newsee said:


> My MHA200 went to McIntosh Service with the red plating tube.  They told it was a tube issue, tube replaced. So far so good.


Great news! I'll be joining the club soon.


----------



## ttocs

vo_obgyn said:


> I’ve had my MHA200 for a few months now and no red plating with the original stock tubes yet. I’m thinking that it is tube issue for some and not an inherent MHA200 (design) problem. But I am following this thread closely.


I will also confirm that I've no red plating issues.  I have had my MHA200 for almost six months.  I have two sets of tubes (stock and Mullard/RCA) with no issues on either.  Probably somewhere in the 400-500 hour range of listening, mostly on the stock BH7As.


----------



## Staxaphone

ttocs said:


> I will also confirm that I've no red plating issues.  I have had my MHA200 for almost six months.  I have two sets of tubes (stock and Mullard/RCA) with no issues on either.  Probably somewhere in the 400-500 hour range of listening, mostly on the stock BH7As.


Had same issue with a Mac power tube go hissy on me.  Agree that the Mac JJ tubes are extensively defective.  Did not want any more bad Mac tubes so did not opt for warranty replacement.  Instead, I replaced with a match pair of new production EH BH7a's.  Only $42 delivered. No issue since and I can't tell any difference in sound performance.  I also replaced the drivers immediately with NOS GB Mullards for improved listening enjoyment and have not had any issue with them.  But those were over $100 for the matched pair.  Hopefully I am good for a long time now.


----------



## Crowbar44

Staxaphone said:


> Had same issue with a Mac power tube go hissy on me.  Agree that the Mac JJ tubes are extensively defective.  Did not want any more bad Mac tubes so did not opt for warranty replacement.  Instead, I replaced with a match pair of new production EH BH7a's.  Only $42 delivered. No issue since and I can't tell any difference in sound performance.  I also replaced the drivers immediately with NOS GB Mullards for improved listening enjoyment and have not had any issue with them.  But those were over $100 for the matched pair.  Hopefully I am good for a long time now.


Yeah...my second set of 1 month old Mac power tubes has just gone a tad hissy as well...may try the Electro Harmonix BH7a's...

FWIW I also recently installed a set of Mullards per the Postive Feedback review...I don't know that it made any significant difference in sound...


----------



## Crgreen

Crowbar44 said:


> Yeah...my second set of 1 month old Mac power tubes has just gone a tad hissy as well...may try the Electro Harmonix BH7a's...
> 
> FWIW I also recently installed a set of Mullards per the Postive Feedback review...I don't know that it made any significant difference in sound...


I had a similar experience with one tube crackling after a few days. All have now been replaced with EH power tubes and Cryo matched Mullards and all have been completely silent since. I recommend the Mullards, pricey but worth it.


----------



## cykin

I replaced my tubes with warranty. Hissy again after a week…

Which Mullard should I get? Going to replace all 4 of them. Thanks


----------



## meomap

Vendor should tested all of their tubes before selling out their amp.
Shame on you McIntosh. 
My Mc275 never have this kind of problem.....


----------



## cykin

meomap said:


> Vendor should tested all of their tubes before selling out their amp.
> Shame on you McIntosh.
> My Mc275 never have this kind of problem.....


They told me they tested it and tubes were running perfectly for 10 days


----------



## funkur (Dec 31, 2021)

cykin said:


> They told me they tested it and tubes were running perfectly for 10 days


Same here. 

No problems with EH Gold 12BH7's.  I've had Mullard CV4024's and NOS RCA Blackplates in the 12AT7 spots, both reliable and sound excellent.


----------



## qboogie

Compared to TT2, mids and vocals are definitely more intimate and up-front (which is nice for cans with recessed vocals) but are more diffused across the stage. Vocals feel like they're wrapped around my head -- like a halo of voices -- which means a loss of focus on the center image where vocals usually live.  Could be a detriment for some. This presentation also contributes to reduced anterior-posterior depth and layering. 

BTW I'm using the vintage Sylvania gold brand tubes, not using stock tubes.


----------



## Crowbar44

Crgreen said:


> I had a similar experience with one tube crackling after a few days. All have now been replaced with EH power tubes and Cryo matched Mullards and all have been completely silent since. I recommend the Mullards, pricey but worth it.


I'm curious...is the hissing/crackling due to the BH7a power tubes, or due to the CV4024 tubes?  Can it be from either?


----------



## cykin

Hello, any reliable tube online shop shipping internationally? I am planning to replace all four of the tubes..... enough for the hiss


----------



## rreynolds

cykin said:


> Hello, any reliable tube online shop shipping internationally? I am planning to replace all four of the tubes..... enough for the hiss


TubeDepot.com & BangyBangTubes on eBay. Have gotten some really nice stuff from them and sounds fantastic.


----------



## ThanatosVI

cykin said:


> Hello, any reliable tube online shop shipping internationally? I am planning to replace all four of the tubes..... enough for the hiss


I can recommend https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/


----------



## ajreynol

Hi all! I keep hearing this amp being recommended so I thought I'd check in and get some insights and opinions from some owners. My current headphone stable:

Senn HD650
LCD-4
LCD-5
1266 TC
What kind of pairing and performance can I expect with these headphones should I decide to jump on this amp? It looks great and I don't currently own a tube amp so this one seems great and is at an agreeable price point. I read earlier in the thread that there were some concerns about what it can do with the 1266 TC's but a company rep suggested that it should be okay with them. Of course there's a difference between "okay" and being able to drive a pair of headphones, so a second opinion from a less biased source would be helpful. Thank you.


----------



## rreynolds

ajreynol said:


> Hi all! I keep hearing this amp being recommended so I thought I'd check in and get some insights and opinions from some owners. My current headphone stable:
> 
> Senn HD650
> LCD-4
> ...


Can tell you right away it won't power the 1266 TC to its fullest. The LCD-4 and LCD-5 aren't too far away from that either, they require some power to really bring out the best in them. The HD650's would sound great on the MHA200. Keep in mind the amp only outputs 500mW of power. Compared the HEKse and Susvara on the MHA and the HE1Kse clearly sounded better solely because of efficiency.


----------



## keysmebaby

Are tube problems on the mha200 common? I don't know anything about the device, so it doesn't seem like it can do anything if it breaks down.


----------



## ttocs

keysmebaby said:


> Are tube problems on the mha200 common? I don't know anything about the device, so it doesn't seem like it can do anything if it breaks down.


Hard to say if it's common.  The sample size of people with issues here probably doesn't cover all the purchases.  I've had no tube issues with mine.  I purchased some NOS tubes to try something different, but not because I had issues with the stock tubes and have had many hours of listening to the stock tubes without issues.  

That being said all tube amps will eventually need replacement tubes and having back stock of some is a good idea.  Once a tube goes out the amp is useless until it's replaced.


----------



## u2u2

keysmebaby said:


> Are tube problems on the mha200 common? I don't know anything about the device, so it doesn't seem like it can do anything if it breaks down.


A few forum members have had problems with the original power tubes. Forums tend to amplify problems as people post when they have issues... Only McIntosh knows if tube issues are common but a scan of this thread leads down the path of the worst case scenario - budget for a non OEM set of power tubes and enjoy your amp if you decide to buy. The amp is solid and performs. The supplied power tubes, maybe not so much. The tubes aren't expensive, are easy to source, and an owner can change them easily. I should mention, being as you have an Atom HE... it is a fantastic pre amp for the MHA200. You have lots of kit that will pair well.


----------



## louis9

keysmebaby said:


> Are tube problems on the mha200 common? I don't know anything about the device, so it doesn't seem like it can do anything if it breaks down.


I have no problem with my mine, either tube or volume control


----------



## Crowbar44

rreynolds said:


> Can tell you right away it won't power the 1266 TC to its fullest. The LCD-4 and LCD-5 aren't too far away from that either, they require some power to really bring out the best in them. The HD650's would sound great on the MHA200. Keep in mind the amp only outputs 500mW of power. Compared the HEKse and Susvara on the MHA and the HE1Kse clearly sounded better solely because of efficiency.


So 500mW of power really doesn't tell the whole story when it comes to the MHA200, as it puts out 500mW into ANY load, due to the unique transformer topology. Demanding headphones like the 1266 TC need lots of power, because most amps dip far below their rated power (2W, 4W, etc.) during demanding transients, so the extra power provides an elevated floor during transients.  The MHA200 always delivers 500mW, even during transients.

As always, have a demo and let your ears decide...


----------



## Slim1970

Crowbar44 said:


> So 500mW of power really doesn't tell the whole story when it comes to the MHA200, as it puts out 500mW into ANY load, due to the unique transformer topology. Demanding headphones like the 1266 TC need lots of power, because most amps dip far below their rated power (2W, 4W, etc.) during demanding transients, so the extra power provides an elevated floor during transients.  The MHA200 always delivers 500mW, even during transients.
> 
> As always, have a demo and let your ears decide...


I’ll be putting this to the test very, very soon. My MHA200 should be here next week. I have some headphones I can’t wait to try with it including the TC’s.


----------



## Audioi

I have had one for three months, works great with my 650's, LCDX & HD800s. Had one tube fail and its been fine since replaced. Will try some NOS once I find my stash.


----------



## gonzalo05

What power cable are you guys using? Thanks.


----------



## Slim1970

gonzalo05 said:


> What power cable are you guys using? Thanks.


I just picked up the Audioquest NRG-Z2 for my MHA200. There aren't a lot of options for 2-Pole terminal on the McIntosh. This seems like the best option so far.


----------



## gonzalo05

Slim1970 said:


> I just picked up the Audioquest NRG-Z2 for my MHA200. There aren't a lot of options for 2-Pole terminal on the McIntosh. This seems like the best option so far.


Thanks for your feedback. One more question, does it matter that the original cable doesn't have a grounding pole and the AQ does?


----------



## vo_obgyn

gonzalo05 said:


> What power cable are you guys using? Thanks.


I'm using the Tributaries Model 6P-C7 power cable. Durable power cord. Another one I considered was the Shunyata Venom V14 with the C7 connector. There is much debate in the forums on whether power cables make a difference.


----------



## vo_obgyn

gonzalo05 said:


> Thanks for your feedback. One more question, does it matter that the original cable doesn't have a grounding pole and the AQ does?


I don't think so but others on the forum may know and chime in further.


----------



## Newsee

gonzalo05 said:


> Thanks for your feedback. One more question, does it matter that the original cable doesn't have a grounding pole and the AQ does?


You need the NRG-Z2 which has only 2 poles on the equipment's end. It does not matter if the other end has ground. 

This one is ok:


This one is not:


----------



## gonzalo05

Newsee said:


> You need the NRG-Z2 which has only 2 poles on the equipment's end. It does not matter if the other end has ground.
> 
> This one is ok:
> 
> This one is not:


Thank you.


----------



## u2u2 (Jan 20, 2022)

Newsee said:


> You need the NRG-Z2 which has only 2 poles on the equipment's end. It does not matter if the other end has ground.
> 
> This one is ok:
> 
> This one is not:


...deleted


----------



## Lépine (Jan 22, 2022)

I upgraded my Focal Utopia headphone cables from stock to Lektric S 4-strand (roughly double the diameter of the stock cable). I didn't realize how much of the MHA200 sound was hidden by the stock cable. This amp set to 100 ohms for the Utopia really hits the notes nice and hard even with the stock tubes. I love this setup, the sound is very dynamic and upper bass is solid.  I suggest making sure to upgrade all headphone cables before spending too much money on power cables. (And, a half inch black granite base under my amp doesn't hurt to reduces vibration noise.)


----------



## gonzalo05

Lépine said:


> I upgraded my Focal Utopia headphone cables from stock to Lektric S 4-strand (roughly double the diameter of the stock cable). I didn't realize how much of the MHA200 sound was hidden by the stock cable. This amp set to 100 ohms for the Utopia really hits the notes nice and hard even with the stock tubes. I love this setup, the sound is very dynamic and upper bass is solid.  I suggest making sure to upgrade all headphone cables before spending too much money on power cables. (And, a half inch black granite base under my amp doesn't hurt to reduces vibration noise.)


Are you using the TT for dac and preamp?


----------



## Lépine (Jan 21, 2022)

gonzalo05 said:


> Are you using the TT for dac and preamp?


Yes, the TT2 is my DAC/Premap.  MHA200 set between VC 12:00 and 1:00. TT2 is my real volume.  Eric Clapton Unplugged (Acoustic)  MTV Live recording of "Tears In Heaven" is absolutely incredible. "Lonely Stranger" also sounds just fantastic. The sound stage is very impressive for a Focal headphone on this amp.


----------



## Lépine (Jan 22, 2022)

I assume if people are spending hundreds on power cables, they got to get a ups first. Only reason I have one is because my electricity is dirty enough to cause my floor lamp to flicker on occasions. I can't hear the difference in any power cable I've tried. The ups was a good change (much blacker sound).


----------



## ABQ2

Lépine said:


> Yes, the TT2 is my DAC/Premap.  MHA200 set between VC 12:00 and 1:00. TT2 is my real volume.  Eric Clapton Unplugged (Acoustic)  MTV Live recording of "Tears In Heaven" is absolutely incredible. "Lonely Stranger" also sounds just fantastic. The sound stage is very impressive for a Focal headphone on this amp.


I too have the Utopia and the MHA200.  Just got the 1/2 speed master 45rpm Brothers in Arms vinyl.  You can always spend more money but I have to guess this is pretty  near the top of audiophile listening.


----------



## Slim1970

My MHA200 has arrived. First impressions are wow! I already love this amp. The sound is neutral, clear, clean and dynamic. Imaging is fantastic and the MHA200 sounds spacious and wide. It's not overly tubey at all. Other tube amps I've tried have been too warm and romantic sounding, lacking detail and clarity. This not the MHA200. The sound is full and midrange is to die for. The MHA200 sounds powerful and the sound has weight to it. Just how I like my amps to sound. Great addition to my collection. It's the first true tube amp that I like. 

I do have a set of Mullards 6201's to try. To be honest, I'm liking the sound of the MHA200 in stock form. I'm going to let these play for awhile then swap tubes. My DAC is the Chord Dave and the combo is simply sublime. Time for some listening


----------



## drroman66

Slim1970 said:


> My MHA200 has arrived. First impressions are wow! I already love this amp. The sound is neutral, clear, clean and dynamic. Imaging is fantastic and the MHA200 sounds spacious and wide. It's not overly tubey at all. Other tube amps I've tried have been too warm and romantic sounding, lacking detail and clarity. This not the MHA200. The sound is full and midrange is to die for. The MHA200 sounds powerful and the sound has weight to it. Just how I like my amps to sound. Great addition to my collection. It's the first true tube amp that I like.
> 
> I do have a set of Mullards 6201's to try. To be honest, I'm liking the sound of the MHA200 in stock form. I'm going to let these play for awhile then swap tubes. My DAC is the Chord Dave and the combo is simply sublime. Time for some listening


What sources are you using to feed her?


----------



## Slim1970

drroman66 said:


> What sources are you using to feed her?


A Chord Dave with M-Scaler. Here's a different angle of my audio rack. You can see more of my gear. 

I'm giving the TC's a go and the MHA200 drives them with authority!


----------



## funkur

https://www.whathifi.com/us/reviews/mcintosh-mha200

What Hi-Fi is far from my favorite review source, but nice to see another glowing review out there. 

Agree on the volume knob but I don’t think the MHA200 is slow - perhaps with the stock input tubes / power cord in the review sample?


----------



## qboogie

Slim1970 said:


> A Chord Dave with M-Scaler. Here's a different angle of my audio rack. You can see more of my gear.
> 
> I'm giving the TC's a go and the MHA200 drives them with authority!


For the TC, what impedance setting have you set? From a brief listen, I didn't enjoy this pairing as much as you do, so I think it might be time to go back and see if my mind changes


----------



## qboogie

funkur said:


> https://www.whathifi.com/us/reviews/mcintosh-mha200
> 
> What Hi-Fi is far from my favorite review source, but nice to see another glowing review out there.
> 
> Agree on the volume knob but I don’t think the MHA200 is slow - perhaps with the stock input tubes / power cord in the review sample?


There is a shocking lack of reviews of this cool little amp.

Darko said it was going to be his "next amp" but then radio silence


----------



## Slim1970

qboogie said:


> For the TC, what impedance setting have you set? From a brief listen, I didn't enjoy this pairing as much as you do, so I think it might be time to go back and see if my mind changes


the 100 Ohm setting at about 1-2 o'clock on the volume knob. I also rolled in a set Mullard 6201 12AT7 tubes for some added warmth. The added warmth isn't much yet as these tubes are still burning in. They have taken away the edgy sound from the stock tubes and added a more low end presence and some midrange body. All while maintain the the MHA200's glorious detail and clarity. I only expect the sound to get better as I get more time on these tubes.


----------



## gonzalo05

Slim1970 said:


> the 100 Ohm setting at about 1-2 o'clock on the volume knob. I also rolled in a set Mullard 6201 12AT7 tubes for some added warmth. The added warmth isn't much yet as these tubes are still burning in. They have taken away the edgy sound from the stock tubes and added a more low end presence and some midrange body. All while maintain the the MHA200's glorious detail and clarity. I only expect the sound to get better as I get more time on these tubes.


What is the burn in time for Muller tubes?


----------



## Slim1970

gonzalo05 said:


> What is the burn in time for Muller tubes?


Most tubes take 100 hours. That is what I'm shooting for before doing any critical listening. I have taken a quick listen or two and I like the way the sound is progressing


----------



## gonzalo05

Slim1970 said:


> Most tubes take 100 hours. That is what I'm shooting for before doing any critical listening. I have taken a quick listen or two and I like the way the sound is progressing


Thanks for the feedback


----------



## Slim1970

gonzalo05 said:


> Thanks for the feedback


No problem, I’m loving the MHA200 after a week of usage. I couldn’t ask for a better sounding tube amp.


----------



## qboogie

Every single time I think I'm going to sell my 200 I end up changing my mind after a night of listening with it.


----------



## Slim1970

qboogie said:


> Every single time I think I'm going to sell my 200 I end up changing my mind after a night of listening with it.


It’s an awesome amp with crazy amounts of detail and clarity to me. Maybe it’s the Dave boosting its performance.


----------



## Crgreen

I’m also using a Dave with Mullard Cryo driver tubes. 100 hours burn in is about right.


----------



## Newsee

I really hate any type of amp noise, especially the 50Hz hum. Fortunately the MHA200 was dead silent so far in this regard (apart from some crackling noise before the red plating, which went away with the tube replacement).

After getting back from repair there were some bad hum at installing at its usual place, which were attenuated when I was touching the metal grill, but did not went away.

Fortunately, moving it to anoter corner of the flat removed the hum completely.


----------



## Yesthereisgasinthecar

funkur said:


> https://www.whathifi.com/us/reviews/mcintosh-mha200
> 
> What Hi-Fi is far from my favorite review source, but nice to see another glowing review out there.
> 
> Agree on the volume knob but I don’t think the MHA200 is slow - perhaps with the stock input tubes / power cord in the review sample?


I did not see the word "slow" in the review, but if you're referring to the "amplifier underplays rhythmic drive" comment, that sounds like one of those 'I'm being paid to say something, here's something that sounds grounded but is kinda word salad. Let's go with that.' The performance of the volume knob is more tangible. I am curious as to why McIntosh has the 'unity' level where it is. The review indicates that this is the recommended position when  using external volume controls, but nowhere is there any discussion as to why this is the recommendation.  I am using my Phonitor 2 as a pre-amp to the MHA200 and the resultant volume at the unity indent it decidedly insufficient.  I have bumped up the output of the Phonitor as much as I care to and still need a 12:30 - 1:00 setting to get good volume across the range of the input (Phonitor) control. Not a big deal, but for someone who likes to know how things work, it leaves me curious.


----------



## Slim1970

Yesthereisgasinthecar said:


> I did not see the word "slow" in the review, but if you're referring to the "amplifier underplays rhythmic drive" comment, that sounds like one of those 'I'm being paid to say something, here's something that sounds grounded but is kinda word salad. Let's go with that.' The performance of the volume knob is more tangible. I am curious as to why McIntosh has the 'unity' level where it is. The review indicates that this is the recommended position when  using external volume controls, but nowhere is there any discussion as to why this is the recommendation.  I am using my Phonitor 2 as a pre-amp to the MHA200 and the resultant volume at the unity indent it decidedly insufficient.  I have bumped up the output of the Phonitor as much as I care to and still need a 12:30 - 1:00 setting to get good volume across the range of the input (Phonitor) control. Not a big deal, but for someone who likes to know how things work, it leaves me curious.


To me, the unity gain position is insufficient for anything. I’m at the 1- 2 o’clock on the volume dial for all my listening sessions depending on headphone.


----------



## qboogie

Slim1970 said:


> To me, the unity gain position is insufficient for anything. I’m at the 1- 2 o’clock on the volume dial for all my listening sessions depending on headphone.


I feel like a world-class safecracker when I'm delicately turning the MHA200 volume knob.


----------



## Slim1970

qboogie said:


> I feel like a world-class safecracker when I'm delicately turning the MHA200 volume knob.


Haha 😂. I thought it would be worse based on the comments I read. It’s not as bad or as finicky as some people are making it out to be. It definitely could use a bit more resistance if I’m being picky.


----------



## gonzalo05

Crgreen said:


> I’m also using a Dave with Mullard Cryo driver tubes. 100 hours burn in is about right.


Oh so, you're the person responsible for me not being able to get my Muller's cryo from Upscaleaudio? 😆😆😆


----------



## pattont

qboogie said:


> I feel like a world-class safecracker when I'm delicately turning the MHA200 volume knob.


bhahahaha! I would be much more interested in this amp if I hadn't seen all of the knob reviews. LOL Z cracked me up with his putty on it.


----------



## Slim1970

pattont said:


> bhahahaha! I would be much more interested in this amp if I hadn't seen all of the knob reviews. LOL Z cracked me up with his putty on it.


Don't let that deter you. It's nowhere near as extreme as Zeos was making it out to be. Grated it's not the best volume on am amp but its more than serviceable. The MHA200 amp itself is phenomenal. Even Zeos himself made that point


----------



## pattont

Slim1970 said:


> Don't let that deter you. It's nowhere near as extreme as Zeos was making it out to be. Grated it's not the best volume on am amp but its more than serviceable. The MHA200 amp itself is phenomenal. Even Zeos himself made that point


agreed just seems odd they haven't revised it after all of the negative press


----------



## Slim1970

pattont said:


> agreed just seems odd they haven't revised it after all of the negative press


Right, they need to take notes from the automotive industry and have a recall on the volume knob, haha 😂


----------



## pattont

Yea, just thinking they could do a voluntary update to it. You send it in, they fix and send it back and give you some tubes and some swag and everyone is happy.


----------



## Yesthereisgasinthecar

pattont said:


> agreed just seems odd they haven't revised it after all of the negative press


I think I recall hearing/reading somewhere that such a revision may be in the offing. But I might be mis-remembering. It is hard to overstate how good this little amp sounds, IMHO. I'd say that the volume knob is more of a charming little idiosyncrasy than an issue.  The lack of input selection is more of an "issue", if someone really wanted to nit-pick. I'd like to have another source on the RCA inputs that I could switch to. But I'll trust that McIntosh had reasons. I can live with it.


----------



## Crgreen

gonzalo05 said:


> Oh so, you're the person responsible for me not being able to get my Muller's cryo from Upscaleaudio? 😆😆😆


Nope, I bought them from Watford Valves in the UK.


----------



## qboogie

pattont said:


> agreed just seems odd they haven't revised it after all of the negative press


They just keep doubling down and saying that's just how it's meant to be. At least they fixed the knob wobble.


----------



## pattont

qboogie said:


> They just keep doubling down and saying that's just how it's meant to be. At least they fixed the knob wobble.


Just strange for a $2500 amp!!


----------



## gonzalo05

pattont said:


> Yea, just thinking they could do a voluntary update to it. You send it in, they fix and send it back and give you some tubes and some swag and everyone is happy.





pattont said:


> Just strange for a $2500 amp!!


Exactly. I own the amp but might actually get rid of it because it.


----------



## Slim1970

gonzalo05 said:


> Exactly. I own the amp but might actually get rid of it because it.


What about sound quality? Is that not a consideration for keeping the amp?


----------



## gonzalo05

Slim1970 said:


> What about sound quality? Is that not a consideration for keeping the amp?


It's a wonderful sounding amp. I just been listening to my 2ch setup more  these days.


----------



## Slim1970

gonzalo05 said:


> It's a wonderful sounding amp. I just been listening to my 2ch setup more  these days.


Gotcha, to bad there's not preamp function on the MHA200. I'm sure it would've made an excellent preamp.


----------



## Newsee

Slim1970 said:


> Gotcha, to bad there's not preamp function on the MHA200. I'm sure it would've made an excellent preamp.


Now $2500 -> proper volume control -> $3000 -> preamp -> $3800
I am happy with the lovely sound and the lack of any noise with the current price. 
I hope I still have 20 years till my hands start shaking. Then I have time to replace it with a higher end model


----------



## Slim1970

Newsee said:


> Now $2500 -> proper volume control -> $3000 -> preamp -> $3800
> I am happy with the lovely sound and the lack of any noise with the current price.
> I hope I still have 20 years till my hands start shaking. Then I have time to replace it with a higher end model


I'm with you. Additional features mean additional costs. The MHA200 is great as is.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Newsee said:


> Now $2500 -> proper volume control -> $3000 -> preamp -> $3800
> I am happy with the lovely sound and the lack of any noise with the current price.
> I hope I still have 20 years till my hands start shaking. Then I have time to replace it with a higher end model


Waiting it out till MHA300 sometime this year


----------



## Slim1970

ThanatosVI said:


> Waiting it out till MHA300 sometime this year


Really? How did you come about this info?


----------



## gonzalo05

Slim1970 said:


> Really? How did you come about this info?


Rumor is McIntosh is working on a pre amp for the MHA200. I seen a distributor mention it in the forums.


----------



## Slim1970

gonzalo05 said:


> Rumor is McIntosh is working on a pre amp for the MHA200. I seen a distributor mention it in the forums.


Nice, so it will be somewhat of an addon?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Slim1970 said:


> Really? How did you come about this info?


You got Mail


----------



## trilos1 (Feb 6, 2022)

3 months ago I bought aswell a MHA-200.
At present I use a DENON AH-D7200 and an Audio Technica ATH-R70x with a McIntosh MHA-200 amp.

The source I am feeding into the McIntosh amp is an older Esoteric CD/SACD-player, the X-05 (slightly modded with OPA627 opamps in the analog output stage instead of the stock 5534).
A Mutec MC3+USB is sending a clean clock signal to the X-05.

I had no problem with the original tubes, but changed after 4 weeks the two original 12AT7 / ECC81 against a matched pair of Tube Amp Doctor ECC81 / 12AT7-Cz TAD Premium Selected tubes.
They work great and they do sound great!

Greetings from Germany,
Alexander

@ ThanatosVI: I would be glad to hear more on the McIntosh preamp rumours for the MHA-200....


----------



## u2u2 (Feb 6, 2022)

Slim1970 said:


> Really? How did you come about this info?


I found out starting by way of post 275 in this thread. A good source IMHO!


----------



## pattont

God I love the look of the MHA200 amp. The green glow calls me….


----------



## Slim1970

pattont said:


> God I love the look of the MHA200 amp. The green glow calls me….


Do it, it’s a great amp!


----------



## u2u2

There is an entry in the MHA200 thread in the sponsor section that might interest McIntosh owners. Online live stream event this Friday... with the President of McIntosh Labs. Just in case there is interest and you missed the notice.


----------



## trilos1

No live stream today, it will be rescheduled for a future date shortly.....


----------



## dw8083 (Feb 11, 2022)

gonzalo05 said:


> Rumor is McIntosh is working on a pre amp for the MHA200. I seen a distributor mention it in the forums.


There is something peculiar regarding the reason for the volume control they decided to use. No audio company *is that dumb* to spec a non-audio taper volume control.

Mc's fallback position is the MHA-200 is intended as a headphone amp with unity gain adjustment which should be paired with a pre-amp for effective volume control.

The company has stated this over and again.   It's a moronic position unless there is some severe limitation faced with replacing the pot with something which works as commonly expected.




trilos1 said:


> No live stream today, it will be rescheduled for a future date shortly.....


The guy was about to get pounded on the volume control topic.  He's need to comeback with a better answer than the "unity gain" talking point and holding his Johnson.

I would have already bought this amp if not for the ridiculous volume control.  Come-on McIntosh, you can do better than acting lame.


----------



## Nostoi

dw8083 said:


> There is something peculiar regarding the reason for the volume control they decided to use. No audio company *is that dumb* to spec a non-audio taper volume control.
> 
> Mc's fallback position is the MHA-200 is intended as a headphone amp with unity gain adjustment which should be paired with a pre-amp for effective volume control.
> 
> ...


Agreed. This amp would have been perfect for my needs were it not for the farcical volume issue.

Not sure why they cancelled the livestream but in the previous one, one of the McIntosh reps was asked about the volume issue and indeed he just went with the unity gain response. He then left the meeting suddenly and the whole thing was vaguely embarrassing.

Hopefully the next iteration will take heed of user feedback...


----------



## dw8083 (Feb 12, 2022)

Nostoi said:


> Hopefully the next iteration will take heed of user feedback...


@Nostoi You may find it interesting, I called McIntosh about 2 months ago regarding the volume control's linearity.  I was impressed they routed me to someone in engineering, thought this seems positive...

Until the gentleman in a New York accent politely told me there is no issue with its gain adjustment.  

I mentioned the observation from prominent reviewers and individuals on hifi forums voicing the problem. He plainly said he and the company was unaware of any negative marketplace commentary.  I offered to send links to the reviews and testimonials regarding the volume issue and he declined.


Then asked him "well shouldn't a unity gain have better linearity then 90% of it's adjustability in a narrow 2 tick window?"  He said "We recommend our customers us a preamp with a volume control, the unity should be set and not touched."


He asked if there was anything else he could help with, I said no and thanked him for his time.

The company was prompt and polite to answer the phone, but it's difficult talking to an ostrich.  :7)

Something ironic about an audio company *tone deaf* to the marketplace.


----------



## gonzalo05

dw8083 said:


> @Nostoi You may find it interesting, I called McIntosh about 2 months ago regarding the volume control's linearity.  I was impressed they routed me to someone in engineering, thought this seems positive...
> 
> Until the gentleman in a New York accent politely told me there is no issue with its gain adjustment.
> 
> ...


No negative comments?! Come on McIntosh that's plain bs. I myself have emailed them about this issue.


----------



## Nostoi

dw8083 said:


> @Nostoi You may find it interesting, I called McIntosh about 2 months ago regarding the volume control's linearity.  I was impressed they routed me to someone in engineering, thought this seems positive...
> 
> Until the gentleman in a New York accent politely told me there is no issue with its gain adjustment.
> 
> ...


Yup, they seem to rest a little comfortably on their reputation, it seems, while also having a slightly disingenuous relationship to their customers. It took long enough for the sales rep on this thread to concede that there was a problem...

As I say, a shame because I'm sure the amp sounds great.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

In principle, it's not stupid, but it's also stupid again.
What's not stupid is if the Dac has variable function integrated it's okay to be able to use it with the remote control.
The same game would be okay with a preamp.
I find it more problematic when devices are used that don't have a remote control or are set to fixed settings. A classic example would be a CD player or a Dac without a remote control.

What I find stupid is the statement with the preamp,why should I buy one if I already spend 3000$/€ for a good amplifier?
Why buy a preamp or a dac separately that has to have at least a remote control to get to know the "pleasure"?

That is not okay, the statement and I think that by now Mcintosh has realised the implications that it was not okay.
From a personal point of view I would have liked to buy it, also I have a variable function on the Dac which is more luxury and nice to have.
But I don't see the point in justifying it and I think it's unfair to those who have to spend extra money.
Even if it was just a topping E30 that had to be bought.
I have never heard anyone say that the sound was crap, if something was loud then it was always the problem with the volume control where most people are angry about having spent so much money afterwards.
Some have also found interesting solutions for this, which is commendable.
But with the price tag, it just has to fit.
Even the Feliks Euforia AE goes for about 3000$/€ and they have understood that you don't do that and Feliks is not as well known as Mcintosh.
For me, I see no reason to move away from my Euforia unless this is fixed in a B version or next Mha300 version, or at least give the buyer a choice of what to use.
I would be 100% sure that 95% of buyers would choose a good volume control if given the choice.


----------



## meomap

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> 
> In principle, it's not stupid, but it's also stupid again.
> What's not stupid is if the Dac has variable function integrated it's okay to be able to use it with the remote control.
> ...


Amen, brother....


----------



## James824 (Feb 16, 2022)

One the fence between a Woo WA22 and the MHA200.

Even considering the WA2 if I elect to use non balanced connections. (+ really do not need the pre-amp of the WA22).


----------



## J2Ordan

As a potential headphone amplifier purchaser and McIntosh fan, the MHA 200 has been on my radar. Of course, all of this about "volume" control has been of concern. Many pages back a west coast McIntosh dealer addressed this issue.

So, it appears the MHA 200 was designed to be just a headphone amp; similar to the MC 275, 2301, 462, 1.25 etc/etc power amps and therefore needs to be feed by a pre-amp (for best results anyway). It is not uncommon for McIntosh to have output adjustments on their power amps; perhaps a two position switch or in some cases a "potentiometer" type device. At the other extreme, McIntosh offers the MHA 150; solid state a combo pre amp/ amp /headphone amp with DAC that can also be used with speakers. Unless I am missing something, buyers of the MHA 200 should use it with a pre-amp. If not something like the Woo WA22 or MHA 150 would be a better choice.

Now, the issue with the fit/finish/wobbly "volume" control is something else. 

As an occasional headphone user, for now will continue to use the headphone output jack on my C1100 and in full disclosure have not as of yet looked at the MHA 200.

All commentary welcome.

John


----------



## u2u2

James824 said:


> One the fence between a Woo WA22 and the MHA200.
> 
> Even considering the WA2 if I elect to use non balanced connections. (+ really do not need the pre-amp of the WA22).


Stay on the fence and await the upcoming MHA300 that should incorporate new features from the feedback McIntosh has received since last spring.
In the alternative buy used so you can get personal experience and spin it off at little to no loss when the time comes - assuming it ever does.
Don't need the pre amp, go for a first generation WA22... It also offers the best tube selection.
If you have any means to control the input to the MHA200 you will be fine otherwise you just need good fine motor skills and a willingness to use some care.
Landing on either side of your fence will be rewarding. 
Your real enemy can come from indecision... 
A little info on your sources, headphones, general setup, could steal the discussion.


----------



## James824

u2u2 said:


> Stay on the fence and await the upcoming MHA300 that should incorporate new features from the feedback McIntosh has received since last spring.
> In the alternative buy used so you can get personal experience and spin it off at little to no loss when the time comes - assuming it ever does.
> Don't need the pre amp, go for a first generation WA22... It also offers the best tube selection.
> If you have any means to control the input to the MHA200 you will be fine otherwise you just need good fine motor skills and a willingness to use some care.
> ...


 Sources are Flac files and redbook CD transport fed to a McIntosh D100 (DAC/preamp - possibly replaced later this year with a Bryston BDA3 or McIntosh D1100) to HD800 cans. My main amp/preamp is a McIntosh MA600 which is not used when I listen through headphones.

Secondary system is Flac files fed to a Woo WA7 (2nd gen) to HD650 and HD800 cans.
WA7  support, reliability and performance have been exceptional.  Which is why, I am leaning towards the Woo Products.   The MHA300 may be redundant if/when I elect to upgrade my D100.


----------



## ochre korg

So if I use the MHA 200 with only a cd-player it won’t sound great?


----------



## Newsee

ochre korg said:


> So if I use the MHA 200 with only a cd-player it won’t sound great?


When you add a good CD and a great HP to them, they will sound great 😉


----------



## ochre korg

Newsee said:


> When you add a good CD and a great HP to them, they will sound great 😉


Haha thanks. I do have a Marantz HD-DAC1 though, and it can work as a pre-amp, maybe I will try it out sometime.


----------



## u2u2

James824 said:


> Sources are Flac files and redbook CD transport fed to a McIntosh D100 (DAC/preamp - possibly replaced later this year with a Bryston BDA3 or McIntosh D1100) to HD800 cans. My main amp/preamp is a McIntosh MA600 which is not used when I listen through headphones.
> 
> Secondary system is Flac files fed to a Woo WA7 (2nd gen) to HD650 and HD800 cans.
> WA7  support, reliability and performance have been exceptional.  Which is why, I am leaning towards the Woo Products.   The MHA300 may be redundant if/when I elect to upgrade my D100.


You seem to be positioned to get the most out of a MHA200 and are probably the target market McIntosh envisioned. Set the MHA at unity gain or a tick higher and you are good to go. My MHA200 is fed by a McIntosh pre amp and DAC most of the time. Fantastic pairing but I had to add the pre amp after buying the MHA... due to the odd ball volume. HD800 are my most often used older cans. Even if you go with Woo you can still use the pre amp on it. It does add value in my experience thus mine is fed via an Atom HE set as pre amp...


----------



## gonzalo05

u2u2 said:


> You seem to be positioned to get the most out of a MHA200 and are probably the target market McIntosh envisioned. Set the MHA at unity gain or a tick higher and you are good to go. My MHA200 is fed by a McIntosh pre amp and DAC most of the time. Fantastic pairing but I had to add the pre amp after buying the MHA... due to the odd ball volume. HD800 are my most often used older cans. Even if you go with Woo you can still use the pre amp on it. It does add value in my experience thus mine is fed via an Atom HE set as pre amp...


What pre?


----------



## u2u2

gonzalo05 said:


> What pre?


C8 McIntosh tube pre amp with DA2 DAC module.


----------



## gonzalo05

u2u2 said:


> C8 McIntosh tube pre amp with DA2 DAC module.very





u2u2 said:


> C8 McIntosh tube pre amp with DA2 DAC module.


Very nice!


----------



## gonzalo05

u2u2 said:


> C8 McIntosh tube pre amp with DA2 DAC module.


Btw how's the phono on that unit?


----------



## u2u2

gonzalo05 said:


> Btw how's the phono on that unit?


As in inputs? No clue as I haven't tried them. No vinyl here due to space and some pet issues.
I assume they would be very good given the brand and how well all the other ins and outs work.


----------



## Deleeh

5000$ for a Preamp is a bit Strong i find.
Even though the C8 looks damn good.
But I've already read that you shouldn't use a preamp with a dac because it can lead to interference.


----------



## u2u2

Deleeh said:


> 5000$ for a Preamp is a bit Strong i find.
> Even though the C8 looks damn good.
> But I've already read that you shouldn't use a preamp with a dac because it can lead to interference.


More than a bit and yet it takes months to get one. Simply insanity but it is one good sounding well built piece of gear. The severe pain of entry left in a blink once I heard it. No slouch when it comes to ergonomics either. Needless to say there are many more cost effective solutions and rewarding McIntosh for the MHA200 volume design was not a bright move on my part.


----------



## ABQ2

u2u2 said:


> As in inputs? No clue as I haven't tried them. No vinyl here due to space and some pet issues.
> I assume they would be very good given the brand and how well all the other ins and outs work.





gonzalo05 said:


> Btw how's the phono on that unit?


Vinyl is spectacular.  The records just sparkle.  I'm using a moving coil cartridge into the McIntosh MP100 phono stage.  All those terms like soundstage and separation of voices.  In spades.


----------



## gonzalo05

ABQ2 said:


> Vinyl is spectacular.  The records just sparkle.  I'm using a moving coil cartridge into the McIntosh MP100 phono stage.  All those terms like soundstage and separation of voices.  In





ABQ2 said:


> Vinyl is spectacular.  The records just sparkle.  I'm using a moving coil cartridge into the McIntosh MP100 phono stage.  All those terms like soundstage and separation of voices.  In spades.


Does the C8 and MP100 have the same phono design?


----------



## NoTimeFor

I swapped out stock 12AT7s with matched NOS Mullard CV4024s. I find the Mullard tubes to be more smooth in the mids and top. Bass is ever so slightly softer than the stock tubes. However, I found these changes to be positive and will be keeping the tubes in the amp. Those who are looking for open and smooth mids, you should give these tubes a try!! Note - Be very patient when pulling the tubes out / in


----------



## ABQ2

gonzalo05 said:


> Does the C8 and MP100 have the same phono design?


I took a look and the C8 is tube, the MP100 is standard electronic.  I can see that you may be attracted to the C8 as a combination phono stage/headphone amp.  I'll let someone else comment on that.


----------



## NoTimeFor

J2Ordan said:


> As a potential headphone amplifier purchaser and McIntosh fan, the MHA 200 has been on my radar. Of course, all of this about "volume" control has been of concern. Many pages back a west coast McIntosh dealer addressed this issue.
> 
> So, it appears the MHA 200 was designed to be just a headphone amp; similar to the MC 275, 2301, 462, 1.25 etc/etc power amps and therefore needs to be feed by a pre-amp (for best results anyway). It is not uncommon for McIntosh to have output adjustments on their power amps; perhaps a two position switch or in some cases a "potentiometer" type device. At the other extreme, McIntosh offers the MHA 150; solid state a combo pre amp/ amp /headphone amp with DAC that can also be used with speakers. Unless I am missing something, buyers of the MHA 200 should use it with a pre-amp. If not something like the Woo WA22 or MHA 150 would be a better choice.
> 
> ...


The volume knob on my unit is pretty good to use I find. It does not wobble and it turns nice & snug. What I care more would be how well volume tracks left / right balance and I am happy that MHA200 tracks the channel balance fairly well to my ears


----------



## NoTimeFor

NoTimeFor said:


> I swapped out stock 12AT7s with matched NOS Mullard CV4024s. I find the Mullard tubes to be more smooth in the mids and top. Bass is ever so slightly softer than the stock tubes. However, I found these changes to be positive and will be keeping the tubes in the amp. Those who are looking for open and smooth mids, you should give these tubes a try!! Note - Be very patient when pulling the tubes out / in


Update: These tubes rock!!! must have for MHA200. After some use, bass is now very tight, still smooth open mids. Soundstage is more open too.


----------



## J2Ordan

NoTimeFor-

Good Post!
Thanks!

John


----------



## dw8083

TSAVJason said:


> we’re doing a little repair on our YouTube account and will post at 25 minute video with Warren and I discussing our initial impressions and listening gear we used to listen to the MHA200. The MHA200 doesn’t suck! 😂


Soon as someone says the *dumb volume* or "unity gain" *control is fixed*... I'll buy one. 

I refuse to use a preamp to fix the volume control linearity problem, My Spring 3 KTE DAC puts out plenty of power.


----------



## trilos1

The question to me is:

- Do we get better sound quality when using a dedicated pre-amp with the MHA-200?
- Or do we lose sound quality when using a dedicated pre-amp with the MHA-200?

In the past, with other electronics, I do have encountered both situations:
Once a pre-amp integrated in-between a CD-player with adjustable volume control and a power amp did increase sound quality, in another case it degraded sound quality.

Has anyone tested the use of the MHA-200 with and without a (very good) pre-amp....?

Greetings from Bavaria,
Alexander


----------



## NoTimeFor

trilos1 said:


> The question to me is:
> 
> - Do we get better sound quality when using a dedicated pre-amp with the MHA-200?
> - Or do we lose sound quality when using a dedicated pre-amp with the MHA-200?
> ...


Based on my experience, I prefer controlling the volume using mha200. Adding more gear in the channel may or may not yield better results though.


----------



## Slim1970

NoTimeFor said:


> Based on my experience, I prefer controlling the volume using mha200. Adding more gear in the channel may or may not yield better results though.


Same here, I put my Dave in DAC mode and control the volume on my MHA200. Works great for me.


----------



## dw8083

I find with the higher voltage and strong current produced by modern DAC's equals or exceeds the output of the most preamps. Eliminating the unnecessary circuitry better preserves sound quality. Preamps are still helpful if turntables are used. 

"Back in the day" people had tape systems, record players, FM tuners, etc all requiring preampfification.  I lost count of how many friends and acquaintances I talked into removing the preamp.  Good Lordy, some I have pry it away. Surprising the lack of willingness to simply move an interconnect from the DAC to the amp. All but one never used a pre-amp again. 

Many of us are 100% digital, and this is largely a piece of nostalgia.


----------



## ochre korg (Feb 21, 2022)

A question: can the MHA200 process DSD signals? Cause my cd-player has an usb-gate and if I’m understanding it right the files from the usb-stick will change into DSD-files, correct me where I’m wrong.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Feb 21, 2022)

ochre korg said:


> A question: can the MHA200 process DSD signals? Cause my cd-player has an usb-gate and if I’m understanding it right the files from the usb-stick will change into DSD-files, correct me where I’m wrong.


The MHA200 has no DAC included, so the question is if your DAC can process them.

My guess is that your CD Player has an built in DAC and outputs for an analog signal.
If it is really only a Transport with Digital out, then you need a DAC in between CD Player and MHA200.

Unless your Stick has DSD files stored it won't be automatically DSD that your DAC has to process. There is no automatic conversion or anything of that sort.
If your CD Player is an SACD Player it should be able to convert DSD64 to analog.


----------



## ochre korg

ThanatosVI said:


> My guess is that your CD Player has an built in DAC and outputs for an analog signal.
> If it is really only a Transport with Digital out, then you need a DAC in between CD Player and MHA200.
> 
> Unless your Stick has DSD files stored it won't be automatically DSD that your DAC has to process. There is no automatic conversion or anything of that sort.
> If your CD Player is an SACD Player it should be available to convert DSD64 to analog.


Yes it has a built in DAC and outputs for an analog signal 👍🏼 And thank you very much for the help and info 👌🏼


----------



## dw8083 (Feb 21, 2022)

ochre korg said:


> A question: can the MHA200 process DSD signals? Cause my cd-player has an usb-gate and if I’m understanding it right the files from the usb-stick will change into DSD-files, correct me where I’m wrong.


It's a function of your DAC (standalone or within the CD/SACD player) whether you can play DSD.  If your equipment can output SACD resolution as an analog signal, then the MHA-200 can play it.  Lots of MHA-200 owners are listening to SACD's, DSD/DSF files.

You are correct that according to DSD licensing SACD players must downsample to CD PCM quality for the digital output; however analog out will be full resolution, which is what the MHA-200 or any other headphone  amp requires.

Off topic: There are methods/ways to rip SACD's to native DSF files without the copy protection. I have over 100 SACD's ripped bit perfect in full resolution to my hard drive for personal use.


----------



## gonzalo05

Has any tried the Benchmark Hpa4 as a pre amp with the MHA200? I'm looking to buy one.


----------



## Jacobal

Does this amp work well with iems like Campfire Solaris?


----------



## Lépine (Mar 4, 2022)

I am listening to my 64Audio U18t with Mx Module and silver XLR balanced cable (Soviet Military exotic).
The MHA200 sounds fantastic with great transparency and dynamics, but remains musical without harsh
etched treble. Really enjoy the solid bass and sweet midrange.

However, the 114 dB sensitivity (similar to Solaris?) does clearly pickup rushing waterfall noise. Does not
bother me since the level of the noise is too low to hear during music playback of even the quietest acoustical
music. You will hear it when no music is playing. It is not to the level of annoying hiss.
The amp is not absolutely black like a good DAP. It sounds like a tube amp strangely enough


----------



## vo_obgyn

Jacobal said:


> Does this amp work well with iems like Campfire Solaris?


I can't speak to your Campfire IEM's, but my JH Audio Roxanne's and Sennheiser I800's sound good. Silent when there is no music. I can't hear any audible hum, etc. with these IEM's. They sound okay to me. When I auditioned the MHA200, I took these IEM's to the store and listened to them before I bought the amp.


----------



## NoTimeFor (Mar 12, 2022)

I am really enjoying Mojo 2 with MHA200. I set MHA200 volume at 12 o'clock position and use volume on Mojo 2. Oh this is heavenly


----------



## Slim1970

NoTimeFor said:


> I am really enjoying Mojo 2 with MHA200. I set MHA200 volume at 12 o'clock position and use volume on Mojo 2. Oh this is heavenly


I have mine hooked up to a Chord Dave, but I share your excitement. Chord gear seems to pair very well with the MHA200.


----------



## drroman66

So I am using my new MHA200 with my Empyreans. They sound amazing. However, without being fed an audio signal I can hear what seems to be faint static or feedback. When playing music with quieter passages it is evident as well.

Any one else experience this with this amp and their headphones?  Any ideas as to what might be causing this?


----------



## Dynamo5561

Lépine said:


> However, the 114 dB sensitivity (similar to Solaris?) does clearly pickup rushing waterfall noise. Does not
> bother me since the level of the noise is too low to hear during music playback of even the quietest acoustical
> music. You will hear it when no music is playing. It is not to the level of annoying hiss.
> The amp is not absolutely black like a good DAP. It sounds like a tube amp strangely enough





drroman66 said:


> o I am using my new MHA200 with my Empyreans. They sound amazing. However, without being fed an audio signal I can hear what seems to be faint static or feedback. When playing music with quieter passages it is evident as well.
> 
> Any one else experience this with this amp and their headphones? Any ideas as to what might be causing this?



What tubes do you guys use? The stock tubes had a crazy amount of noise when nothing was played. It even sounded like a device sound and I was already worried that the MHA200 is badly designed. I got a second tube set (electro harmonix) together with the amp. They were much better but still with noise. 

I now have 2 x 12BH7A-Premium-Audio-S4A &  2 x Gold Lion 12AT7 / ECC81 Genalex / Russia, all hand selected and there is absolutely no noise with IEMs. Traillii and Odin are quite sensitive, but the MHA200 is dead silent.


----------



## ochre korg

I have an Empyrean and a MHA200 too, and indeed a sweet combi, if the amp works, cause after a few days of playing with the amp one tube is bad(probably), monday I will receive some alternative tubes really hope it is a tube issue, cause you just have to replace it and that’s  it.


----------



## NoTimeFor

I find it when I turn on the amp, it takes at least 3 to 5 mins to quiet down. Once settled, it stays quiet. Careful with a long headphone cable as it may pick up radio signal. Short cables are fine I think.


----------



## drroman66

NoTimeFor said:


> I find it when I turn on the amp, it takes at least 3 to 5 mins to quiet down. Once settled, it stays quiet. Careful with a long headphone cable as it may pick up radio signal. Short cables are fine I think.


Thanks for the info.  Hope it does settle down. This amp is amazing!


----------



## drroman66

ochre korg said:


> I have an Empyrean and a MHA200 too, and indeed a sweet combi, if the amp works, cause after a few days of playing with the amp one tube is bad(probably), monday I will receive some alternative tubes really hope it is a tube issue, cause you just have to replace it and that’s  it.


I am going to reach out to McIntosh to see if I can get replacement tubes as well. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## tommyc

drroman66 said:


> I am going to reach out to McIntosh to see if I can get replacement tubes as well. Thanks for the reply.





drroman66 said:


> So I am using my new MHA200 with my Empyreans. They sound amazing. However, without being fed an audio signal I can hear what seems to be faint static or feedback. When playing music with quieter passages it is evident as well.
> 
> Any one else experience this with this amp and their headphones?  Any ideas as to what might be causing this?


I have the same thing happen to me.  When I connect my EE Odin to the mha200, the right side has some electrical crackle noise, the left side has a faint "laser gun" type noise when the music is very faint or silent(Can't hear it with my maze elite thou).  The problem completely went away after I replace the 12BH7A tubes with vintage tung-sol ones, now it's totally silent with any of my headphones.


----------



## Lépine (Mar 15, 2022)

drroman66 said:


> So I am using my new MHA200 with my Empyreans. They sound amazing. However, without being fed an audio signal I can hear what seems to be faint static or feedback. When playing music with quieter passages it is evident as well.
> 
> Any one else experience this with this amp and their headphones?  Any ideas as to what might be causing this?


You should check all your cabling to make sure you are not picking up RFI.  The amp and headphone cable pickup bluetooth, wifi, and cellphone noise (especially with navi apps running in the background).  Stay away from WiFi routers.

I found after using Toslink, I have zero noise using the original stock tubes. By comparison, my HeadAmp GS-X Mini makes more background noise after changing to Toslink connections between the dac and PC, and eliminate as many stray power cords near the MHA200.


----------



## drroman66

I try to isolate any potential cable issues. I was not aware of some of these issues. Thank you for your incite and response.


----------



## ABQ2

I'm thinking about getting a set of tubes until Russia becomes part of the real world.  Suggestions?


----------



## tommyc

ABQ2 said:


> I'm thinking about getting a set of tubes until Russia becomes part of the real world.  Suggestions?


The oem tubes are Russian.


----------



## u2u2

ABQ2 said:


> I'm thinking about getting a set of tubes until Russia becomes part of the real world.  Suggestions?


Checked a few of the sellers I have dealt with and several are closed to online sales due to overwhelming demand and stock issues. Some are simply showing out of stock, and one has prices heading up over the moon... not a good time for buyers.
A fast search of this thread or perusal of some MHA200 reviews will point the way. 
I have had very good fortune with Eletro Harmonix BHA127A, Mullard NOS CV4024 and Mullard NOS 6201 gold pins.


----------



## Lépine (Mar 16, 2022)

drroman66 said:


> I try to isolate any potential cable issues. I was not aware of some of these issues. Thank you for your incite and response.


Calling it an issue in my opinion is wrong. That would imply that McIntosh didn't know what they were doing and everyone else in the market does RFI shielding correctly. My opinion is that tube gear needs more care than solid state.

I don't think this is unique to the MHA200. Others more heavyly into tube equipment pointed this out to me, and when I moved my cellphone charger away from my MHA200, I noticed immediately a much quieter amp. I thought at first I had a bad batch of tubes, but the tubes were in fact picking up noise from my cellphone getting notification and text messages. Also, my XLR cables were picking up noise coming out of my DAC and going into the MHA200. A couple of core chokes and moving the power cables away from the XLR cables reduced the occasional waterfall hiss.  I moved my MHA200 off of my desk ( you can see old photos I posted about this ). The reason was it was picking up noise from my bluetooth mouse or more correctly, my iem wires were acting as antenna for picking up bluetooth noise and the amp was somehow amplifying it. Larger headphone cables or less sensitive headphones, I haven't noticed anything that distracting.

Also to get faster internet speeds, I have a router extender on my desk (great for the computer). This is a bad idea for audio, I am adding a lot of usb and WiFi noise from my computer and router to my system. To get around this; for audio, I switched back to TOSLINK. I gave up some of the higher audio speeds, but really going back to 96Khz vs noise at 172Khz+ is an easy choice. This eliminated all the noise from my computer and router to the DAC. I use an older dap with toslink output for the conversion from usb to toslink. There's a few out there on ebay you can get relatively cheap Astell Kerns AK300 for example and it is plug and play. I don't know about the quality of the conversions for the $25 range TOSLINK adapters on Amazon if any are of any good.

Below is an example of how crowded my desk can get and you can also see I switched to TOSLINK. I normally have all these sources of noise further away from the tube amps to get rid of the RFI noise sources. I put them together in this photo to show what's a bad environment. I know this isn't normal and everyone has nice clean dedicated racks, but if you don't, you should clean up your cables and move RFI sources away. These will also sound like "Tube Noise". Hiss, static, popping, clicking, hum,  etc.


----------



## TSAVJason

dw8083 said:


> Soon as someone says the *dumb volume* or "unity gain" *control is fixed*... I'll buy one.
> 
> I refuse to use a preamp to fix the volume control linearity problem, My Spring 3 KTE DAC puts out plenty of power.


Refuse? I haven’t seen anyone try to force into getting one. Have I missed something??


----------



## Lépine

Hi @TSAVJason, when can we expect the next generation MHA to come out? I just love the sound of the MHA200 so much I am eagerly awaiting the next generation.


----------



## dw8083 (Mar 17, 2022)

TSAVJason said:


> Refuse? I haven’t seen anyone try to force into getting one. Have I missed something??


McIntosh has said the dopey unity gain volume control shouldn't be used as a volume control; and a preamp is needed. SO yes, if a listener wants to control the volume they are forced to buy a preamp. 

Silly that a $2400 headphone amp doesn't have a linear volume control, and the factory says the fix is to add a preamp.   I'd buy a MHA-200 today if it had a properly working volume control.


----------



## ochre korg

I don’t have any issues with the volume control, I do twist the knob careful and gently, but that’s no problem at all for me.


----------



## Lépine (Mar 20, 2022)

ochre korg said:


> I don’t have any issues with the volume control, I do twist the knob careful and gently, but that’s no problem at all for me.


I agree.  With a source that has a relatively normal line out output level, the volume knob range of 11:00 to 1:00 is really not bad. Annoying right near 12:00 because of the detent, but you don't really need to be the "safe cracker" to operate it. If you source can lower it's line out output level, then of course your MHA200 volume knob usable range increases.

My personal preference is to set my volume knob at 1:00 where I think it sounds more dynamic than at 12:00 and use the variable output from my source. I have tried a few headphone amps and even compared to the headphone jacks straight out of the HugoTT2. The musical performance of the MHA200 is much more dynamic, clearer, bigger sound stage, more holographic. Basically the difference between a believable performance vs. yeah its a great rendition of the performance, but it ain't the real thing.




dw8083 said:


> McIntosh has said the dopey unity gain volume control shouldn't be used as a volume control; and a preamp is needed. SO yes, if a listener wants to control the volume they are forced to buy a preamp.
> 
> Silly that a $2400 headphone amp doesn't have a linear volume control, and the factory says the fix is to add a preamp.   I'd buy a MHA-200 today if it had a properly working volume control.


I think as audiophiles, we are chasing the sound and in some cases putting up with some craziness. Come on bare motherboard Raspberry Pi DYI computer running Linux software version of audio players with hand assembled opamps amps with garden hose size electrical cords? That's pretty extreme.

$2500 for a McIntosh, to me that is less than half the normal entry price to get into a McIntosh. I am willing to put up with a lot of quirks to hear something that sounds better than the MHA100/150 with everything "correct" at half the price. The way I view it, I have budget for adding a $2500 preamp of my choice or nothing at all if I don't really need it.

No disrespect for HeadAmp, but you can keep my GS-X Mini, it's not connected to anything. I listen to it only once in a while. I listen at least two hours a day to my MHA200. To get the HeadAmp to sound close to the MHA200, it needs to be left on almost overnight and set to high gain which is too noisy for my taste.


----------



## dw8083 (Mar 17, 2022)

ochre korg said:


> I don’t have any issues with the volume control, I do twist the knob careful and gently, but that’s no problem at all for me.


Some people have decided to just live with it, while others find it unacceptable 80% of the volume adjustment is within 20% of a range.

It's a flaw and the factory agrees that it's not a viable volume control. 

Many of us headphone users like fine adjustments for volume. Many have seen others resort to placing non-hardening putty ball against the "volume" knob to keep a small nudge from damaging their ears from a sudden 10-15db jump in volume.



Lépine said:


> $2500 for a McIntosh, to me that is less than half the normal entry price to get into a McIntosh. I am willing to put up with a lot of quirks to hear something that sounds better than the MHA100/150 with everything "correct" at half the price. The way I view it, I have budget for adding a $2500 preamp of my choice or nothing at all if I don't really need it.


Using Lepine's comment as a basis, not directed at Lepine.   Because it's McIntosh, people are willing to tolerate something which would be unacceptable on another product.  Some kind of brand hypnosis. 

Lets demand McIntosh do better. They don't care unless we the customer base does.


----------



## u2u2

dw8083 said:


> Lets demand McIntosh do better. They don't care unless we the customer base does.


Problem is the typical wait for McIntosh gear in my area is two months and then you feel lucky to even receive it!
They can't meet the demand of their customers as is, given market conditions. 
When you can sell everything you are capable of making, niche users, like here, have minimal influence.
Last summer they were having trouble sourcing tubes for warranty and new products. Wonder where things are headed now and what influence the "customer base", as you may define it, has?
Not trying to defend McIntosh decisions but it seems they know their market more than well enough. Some of us simply aren't it.


----------



## dw8083

u2u2 said:


> Problem is the typical wait for McIntosh gear in my area is two months and then you feel lucky to even receive it!
> They can't meet the demand of their customers as is, given market conditions.
> When you can sell everything you are capable of making, niche users, like here, have minimal influence.
> Last summer they were having trouble sourcing tubes for warranty and new products. Wonder where things are headed now and what influence the "customer base", as you may define it, has?
> Not trying to defend McIntosh decisions but it seems they know their market more than well enough. Some of us simply aren't it.


I agree with you. No reason for them to care, but they should.   

In the end it doesn’t speak well for them.  The first batch they released had the same volume control problem but it was mechanically wobbly as well. The remedy was to suggest customers put a felt pad underneath the knob to keep it from tilting. At least they fixed that aspect of the issue.


----------



## u2u2 (Mar 17, 2022)

dw8083 said:


> I agree with you. No reason for them to care, but they should.
> 
> In the end it doesn’t speak well for them.  The first batch they released had the same volume control problem but it was mechanically wobbly as well. The remedy was to suggest customers put a felt pad underneath the knob to keep it from tilting. At least they fixed that aspect of the issue.


I am not saying they don't care but rather that they care enough for their target market.
The real proof will be when they release the MHA300 eluded to earlier in this thread (assuming the new tube market conditions make that commercially feasible).
If they do a different take on unity gain vs a true volume control we will know.
As an early MHA200 owner I took the felt pad solution to be utter BS. In totality, the MHA200 with all its warts, has become top dog in my modest tube amp collection.
I was vocal about the flaws initially but not so much now as the little beast has some endearing qualities... qualities I have not been able to top.
I have a love - hate relationship with McIntosh with the former winning out every time   , after every purchase.


----------



## ThanatosVI

u2u2 said:


> I am not saying they don't care but rather that they care enough for their target market.
> The real proof will be when they release the MHA300 eluded to earlier in this thread (assuming the new tube market conditions make that commercially feasible).
> If they do a different take on unity gain vs a true volume control we will know.
> As an early MHA200 owner I took the felt pad solution to be utter BS. In totality, the MHA200 with all its warts, has become top dog in my modest tube amp collection.
> ...


Yeah McIntosh usually uses pentodes which are mainly produced in Russia. 
I really wonder how the tube amp market will adjust to that now that both Shuguang and Russia are no sources anymore


----------



## ochre korg

ThanatosVI said:


> Yeah McIntosh usually uses pentodes which are mainly produced in Russia.
> I really wonder how the tube amp market will adjust to that now that both Shuguang and Russia are no sources anymore


By the way, it was indeed a tube issue, thanks for that, now I am in dreamland with this sweet amp 😁👌🏼


----------



## qboogie

Those with 300 ohm headphones like ZMF/Beyer/Sennheiser, do you use the 250 ohm or 600 ohm impedance setting, and why?

Also does anyone know by how many decibels each setting differs?


----------



## Slim1970

qboogie said:


> Those with 300 ohm headphones like ZMF/Beyer/Sennheiser, do you use the 250 ohm or 600 ohm impedance setting, and why?
> 
> Also does anyone know by how many decibels each setting differs?


I use the 250 ohm setting with my VO’s. It’s the closest to 300 ohm, which is suppose offer the best driver control. As far as gain settings here’s what I found:

*Voltage Gain:*

+12dB at 32 Ohms
+17dB at 100 Ohms
+21dB at 250 Ohms
+25dB at 600 Ohms


----------



## qboogie

Slim1970 said:


> I use the 250 ohm setting with my VO’s. It’s the closest to 300 ohm, which is suppose offer the best driver control. As far as gain settings here’s what I found:
> 
> *Voltage Gain:*
> 
> ...


Thanks man. I appreciate your help


----------



## Slim1970

qboogie said:


> Thanks man. I appreciate your help


No problem


----------



## RPKwan

TSAVJason said:


> That would be the case with almost any powered audio device. Manufacturers don’t typically include high quality cables
> 
> It’s great you found your preference 👍🏻


Hi there, new owner of the MHA200 and enjoying it very, very much.

A few things about how and what I'm using it with...

Almost all portable DACS/DAPs. I've only purchased the MHA200 now because of the lockdown situation and the need to WFH. I'm using it with DX300MAX balanced line-out, HM1000 balanced line-out and M17 balance line out. I also have a few other players to try but so far I've got 3 different sound signatures from 4499, 4x1704 and dual 9038Pro. All sound incredible with the M17 dual 9038Pro sounding the most detailed. I have no issues with he volume on the MHA200, leaving it just past the 12 indent.

My headphones include GRADO R2, GRADO GS1000i and LCD2F. All sound better than anything I've ever tried (including the Ferrum Orr + Hypsos stack which sounded too linear with the Grados.

My question to you all is whether power cable or tubes make the biggest difference? I'm sure both do, but what should be prioritized?

I read the review by Bob Levy where he mentions it changing the 12A7 tubes for Mullards. Does he mean only switching out the 2 or needing to swap all 4? 

I'm new to the tube rolling game so any info would be great appreciated.


----------



## Slim1970

RPKwan said:


> Hi there, new owner of the MHA200 and enjoying it very, very much.
> 
> A few things about how and what I'm using it with...
> 
> ...


First, congrats and welcome to the club. I have an upgraded power cord on my MHA200 and I'm not sure it's making a difference. Changing the tube does, but not as much as I was hoping. I have a set of Mullards 6201's I played around with. They did take the edge off the leading transients, added a little warmth to midrange, and added little more bass.

You only want to replace the tubes with same tube types. There are two 12AT7's and two 12BH7A's. I replaced the 2 stock 12AT7's with 2 Mullard 6201's, which are a 12AT7 variants. According to reviewers changing out the 12AT7 tubes has the biggest effect on the sound. So start there


----------



## RPKwan

Slim1970 said:


> First, congrats and welcome to the club. I have an upgraded power cord on my MHA200 and I'm not sure it's making a difference. Changing the tube does, but not as much as I was hoping. I have a set of Mullards 6201's I played around with. They did take the edge off the leading transients, added a little warmth to midrange, and added little more bass.
> 
> You only want to replace the tubes with same tube types. There are two 12AT7's and two 12BH7A's. I replaced the 2 stock 12AT7's with 2 Mullard 6201's, which are a 12AT7 variants. According to reviewers changing out the 12AT7 tubes has the biggest effect on the sound. So start there


Thanks so much @Slim1970. I had a gut feeling the tubes would make a bigger difference. I'll probably get those first and look for cables later.


----------



## Winterwolf

After reading through 54 pages, I wanted to write a comment about the MHA200 looking at a new combo:

I bought the MHA200 maybe 3 weeks ago. I tried pairing it with my MHA150 via the Pre-Amp output + SH800S

I set the MHA200 to 12 position and then tried listening to it via my normal power levels. First, I was surprised that I barely heard anything. Not realizing that the MHA150 uses 3V output so the volume needs to be set around 66% to achieve 2V. 

I listened to the MHA200 in the store via 800S and I was amazed about its clarity and openness, so I was expecting real goodness paired with the MHA150. Sadly, I was quite disappointed. The sound was pretty much the same as the MHA150. I assume the MHA150 already gives it a typical "McIntosh" sound and pairing it with tubes did not add much to its sound (maybe a little warmer due to the tubes) but overall barely distinguishable. 

So I went back to the store and they recommended to me to try the Chord Qutest. And oh my god did the MHA200 to start to sing. It opened up completely with an amazing 3D soundstage. The sound is so much more engaging then the MHA150.

Also my first unit died at this time (excessive static noise on right side + tube overheating). The second unit they gave me worked flawlessly. No static whatsoever. So do not let anyone tell you that it has static by default. If you hear static, bring the unit back. The second unit is absolute a delight with the Qutest. 

My recommendation would be if you already have a McIntosh pre-amp maybe try something else to see what the MHA200 really can do. Paired with a dedicated DAC it is a marvel. 

But I have to say the MHA200 together with the MHA150 is quite a light show 

Love to hear if anyone else tried to hook up an MHA150 to a MHA200 and what their experience is like. 

Happy listening
-- WW


----------



## Helderfb

Olá, boa tarde, você poderia me dizer algumas diferenças em relação ao som do MHA 200 para o Quad PA-One+


----------



## Loftprojection

TSAVJason said:


> It’s obvious they want to make products for headphone users that really kick ass …..


Pleeeeeease, a remote control and a line-out/pre-out!


----------



## Lépine (Mar 24, 2022)

I just switched out my stock JJ 12AT7 for NOS  British Military Mullards matched pair tested for low noise  and harmonics. Best $100 I have ever spent. I had assumed that most reports of tube changes were the typical exagerations and hyperboli that you typically read about on these forums.

My honest assessment is that the stock tubes should immediately be removed from any MHA200 and dropped in the trash, you will not listen to them again. If you have not tried any other tubes in your MHA200, I suggest going to your local McIntosh dealer and ask if you can try out some Mullards or anything else they have on hand. If you can not hear the difference between Mullards and JJ you may need to re-evaluate your system or make sure there are not medical issues.

I have put in another order for two more pairs of these military grade tubes. As soon as I have more cash available, I plan to order several more matched pairs.

Spending money on $2000 interconnect cables, $100 fuses, $200 power cords, etc to me now seems quite foolish if you have not swapped out the stock tubes for $100.  You will get much greater sonic improvement immediately (no burn in, no sitting for hours A/B testing) over any of the above. I think the best way to describe the change is to imagine all your high resolution music has been re-recorded by Chesky using Binaural microphones.

http://www.mullardtubes.com/Mullard-ECC81-12AT7-CV4024/?ID=0&ProductID=152


----------



## RPKwan (Mar 24, 2022)

Lépine said:


> I just switched out my stock JJ 12AT7 for NOS  British Military Mullards matched pair tested for low noise  and harmonics. Best $100 I have ever spent. I had assumed that most reports of tube changes were the typical exagerations and hyperboli that you typically read about on these forums.
> 
> My honest assessment is that the stock tubes should immediately be removed from any MHA200 and dropped in the trash, you will not listen to them again. If you have not tried any other tubes in your MHA200, I suggest going to your local McIntosh dealer and ask if you can try out some Mullards or anything else they have on hand. If you can not hear the difference between Mullards and JJ you may need to re-evaluate your system or make sure there are not medical issues.
> 
> ...


100% agree.

I swapped my stock tubes with Philips 12AT7 E81CC Made in Germany. Such a huge difference I may not need to get power cables. Gonna swap out the 12BH7A with Sylvania 12BH7S'.


----------



## tommyc

Lépine said:


> I just switched out my stock JJ 12AT7 for NOS  British Military Mullards matched pair tested for low noise  and harmonics. Best $100 I have ever spent. I had assumed that most reports of tube changes were the typical exagerations and hyperboli that you typically read about on these forums.
> 
> My honest assessment is that the stock tubes should immediately be removed from any MHA200 and dropped in the trash, you will not listen to them again. If you have not tried any other tubes in your MHA200, I suggest going to your local McIntosh dealer and ask if you can try out some Mullards or anything else they have on hand. If you can not hear the difference between Mullards and JJ you may need to re-evaluate your system or make sure there are not medical issues.
> 
> ...



Totally, those stock tubes are really a hinderance to the wonderful machine below. 

If you like the Mullard sound, you may want to hunt for a pair of their 1950s square getter version from the Mitcham factory.  My currently favourite is a pair of Marconi branded B309 from Mullard Blackburn.  I have very good result with Made in Holland Mullards too (Those are Phillips made and branded as Mullard).

Telefunken ecc801/ecc81 and Brimer 6060 yellow/white T are very good too but they sound different from Mullard.

I am waiting for a pair of GEC a2900 to arrive, they are supposed to be one of the best 12at7, but my local tube store said they might be too bass heavy for head-amp use.

P.S. Here are a couple links that I find very helpful for tube identification/selection.
Mullard factory and date codes
Factory ratings (it's just someone's personal opinion, don't take it as gospel, but a nice starting point nonetheless)


----------



## Lépine (Mar 24, 2022)

I really appreciate sharing the info on great tubes. I now know I have been missing out on a lot. For months I have been debating about upgrading interconnects. I should have swapped out the tubes sooner for less than a tenth of the cost. I am not sure I will hear 5% improvement with interconnect improvements. But tubes, in two minutes I hear a completely different sound signature.


----------



## Helderfb

MHA 200 e Quad PA-One+, são iguais em qualidade de som? Um Quad PA - One+ apareceu pela metade do preço de um MHA 200, acho o MHA 200 mais bonito, mas se o Quad PA for tão bom quanto estou pensando em adquirir, será minha primeira experiência com tubos.. .


----------



## RPKwan (Mar 26, 2022)

Stock 12BH7A replaced with  Sylvania 12BH7S. Stock 12AT7 replaced with Philips E81CC Made in Germany.


----------



## Slim1970

RPKwan said:


> Stock 12BH7A replaced with  Sylvania 12BH7S. Stock 12AT7 replaced with Philips E81CC Made in Germany.


Compared to the stock tubes, what changes to the sound are you hearing?


----------



## RPKwan

Slim1970 said:


> Compared to the stock tubes, what changes to the sound are you hearing?


The soundstage is wider and deeper. String instruments are much more detailed and natural. Mids are slightly boosted, vocals are much more intimate and sweeter.

Obviously pairing matters, so for my GRADO GS1000i and Audeze LCD2F they sound incredibly real and natural. Pairing with my GRADO PS1000e it's slightly too warm but I think SS is a better match for those headphones.

Overall with the tube rolling and the ones I'm using it just sounds much more refined for not a very big investment.


----------



## Slim1970

RPKwan said:


> The soundstage is wider and deeper. String instruments are much more detailed and natural. Mids are slightly boosted, vocals are much more intimate and sweeter.
> 
> Obviously pairing matters, so for my GRADO GS1000i and Audeze LCD2F they sound incredibly real and natural. Pairing with my GRADO PS1000e it's slightly too warm but I think SS is a better match for those headphones.
> 
> Overall with the tube rolling and the ones I'm using it just sounds much more refined for not a very big investment.


Nice, It sounds like the new tubes are working out for you. I decided to put the stock tubes back in replacing the Mullar 6201’s I’ve been using the past couple of month. To be honest they are not as bad as I thought. They have enough tube flavor to differentiate itself from any solid state amp.

I pulled out my D8K Pro’s for a listening session and they are sounding exceptional out of the MHA200. The stock tubes work well with this headphone because they aren’t as “tubey” and sound more neutral than the Mullards. The sound is fuller, more spacious, and airy than the GS-X. As a matter of fact the D8K Pro’s sound thinner on it when I switch back and forth. So I know I’m getting the sound of tubes in even stock form out of the MHA200. I’m leaving the stock tubes in the MHA200’s for now. They seem to pair with a wider variety of headphones.


----------



## RPKwan

Slim1970 said:


> Nice, It sounds like the new tubes are working out for you. I decided to put the stock tubes back in replacing the Mullar 6201’s I’ve been using the past couple of month. To be honest they are not as bad as I thought. They have enough tube flavor to differentiate itself from any solid state amp.
> 
> I pulled out my D8K Pro’s for a listening session and they are sounding exceptional out of the MHA200. The stock tubes work well with this headphone because they aren’t as “tubey” and sound more neutral than the Mullards. The sound is fuller, more spacious, and airy than the GS-X. As a matter of fact the D8K Pro’s sound thinner on it when I switch back and forth. So I know I’m getting the sound of tubes in even stock form out of the MHA200. I’m leaving the stock tubes in the MHA200’s for now. They seem to pair with a wider variety of headphones.


Yup, I know what you mean. 

For my PS1000e I think a less tubey, warm signature suits it better.


----------



## Lépine

The military Mullards I put in sound more aggressive than the stock JJ tubes. There is also less tube noise. Still a faint bit of waterfall hiss, but about 1/4-1/5th the level of background noise. I hear faster and more forceful bass and clearer treble. I don't think I noticed a change in tonality. For that I would have to A/B back and forth, which I am not going to do with tubes that I am likely to break in the process. 

I think I may have one bad military tube. I notice a bright yellow glow that lasts 1 second every time I turn on the set. A little disappointed, but what can I do but use it until it starts to not sound musical...


----------



## tommyc (Mar 27, 2022)

Lépine said:


> The military Mullards I put in sound more aggressive than the stock JJ tubes. There is also less tube noise. Still a faint bit of waterfall hiss, but about 1/4-1/5th the level of background noise. I hear faster and more forceful bass and clearer treble. I don't think I noticed a change in tonality. For that I would have to A/B back and forth, which I am not going to do with tubes that I am likely to break in the process.
> 
> I think I may have one bad military tube. I notice a bright yellow glow that lasts 1 second every time I turn on the set. A little disappointed, but what can I do but use it until it starts to not sound musical...


The hiss very possibly comes form the 12bh7. I had pretty bad hiss on my unit, it went away completely after replacing the 12bh7 with tung-sol nos ones.

The flash you saw when the tube turns on is call the heater flash. It doesn’t affect the performance of the tube during normal operation, but the filament itself may burn out prematurely thou.  It happens a lot on European tubes. I wouldn’t worry too much about it.


----------



## mackmantcp

When the first reviews for the MHA200 were coming out I remember reading an article that raved that a specific pair of high-impedance Grado or Beyer headphones sounded amazing on the 200. I'm trying (and failing) to track down that review now. Anybody able to jog my memory? Thanks -mm


----------



## RPKwan

mackmantcp said:


> When the first reviews for the MHA200 were coming out I remember reading an article that raved that a specific pair of high-impedance Grado or Beyer headphones sounded amazing on the 200. I'm trying (and failing) to track down that review now. Anybody able to jog my memory? Thanks -mm


I don't know about the review but I have 3 pairs of Grados that I'm pairing with the MHA that sound amazing. I actually demoed the Ferrum stack which is about the same price but it didn't pair as well with my Grados.


----------



## Slim1970

RPKwan said:


> I don't know about the review but I have 3 pairs of Grados that I'm pairing with the MHA that sound amazing. I actually demoed the Ferrum stack which is about the same price but it didn't pair as well with my Grados.


Yep, not bad


----------



## RPKwan

Slim1970 said:


> Yep, not bad


I mentioned in a few posts back that the only Grado I find slightly too warm with the MHA is the PS1000e. How is the PS2000e?


----------



## Slim1970

RPKwan said:


> I mentioned in a few posts back that the only Grado I find slightly too warm with the MHA is the PS1000e. How is the PS2000e?


It wasn’t bad, there was some bass bloat. The midrange and treble sounded phenomenal.


----------



## RPKwan

Slim1970 said:


> It wasn’t bad, there was some bass bloat. The midrange and treble sounded phenomenal.


Same, the bass is more pronounced on the PS1000e vs GS1000i and RS2. Midrange and treble are great but with SS I think the PS1000e sounds cleaner.


----------



## Slim1970 (Mar 27, 2022)

RPKwan said:


> Same, the bass is more pronounced on the PS1000e vs GS1000i and RS2. Midrange and treble are great but with SS I think the PS1000e sounds cleaner.


Yes, the PS series is better on solid state amps. They have much more bass than Grado's other series.


----------



## NoTimeFor

Anyone have experience with Feliks Euforia? Does it sound better than mha200?


----------



## TSAVJason

Lépine said:


> Hi @TSAVJason, when can we expect the next generation MHA to come out? I just love the sound of the MHA200 so much I am eagerly awaiting the next generation.



Sorry for the late response. I have been dealing with doctors and a serious back problem. The prediction if parts are readily available is late 2023. McIntosh didn’t expect the popularity of the MHA200 and currently can’t meet the demand. They freaked out when they received our order of 100 when it was being released. Our second and third orders were only 40 each time but even at smaller orders they had delivery issues. I think we still have 8 in stock out of the 180 we brought in. 

To be on point if they build it as we discussed the new unit possibly named the MHA250 it will be a serious amp at about $3500 and feature loaded. The new VC will be dual function again but easier for those that don’t understand alternate preamp functions like the MHA200 uses ….. that’s all I can discuss about it at the point. Hopefully I’ll be able to disclose more toward the end of this year. I’m kinda in a keep my mouth shut mode at the moment


----------



## TSAVJason

RPKwan said:


> Hi there, new owner of the MHA200 and enjoying it very, very much.
> 
> A few things about how and what I'm using it with...
> 
> ...


Again I’m apologizing for being gone for a bit. I had to deal with my medical issues. Changing the output tubes doesn’t do much of anything. Changing the preamp tubes (AX7) depending on the brand can change the sound. I’m not sure I put much value on Bobs point of view but the mullards do change the sound (mids mostly). I didn’t like the sound change but I know a few people here in my area that do. Their mutual response is the likes the more forward midrange so it’s definitely something to consider. I just tried a tube from western electric that is not yet available to anyone that did really keep that beautiful McIntosh midrange but enhanced the overall detail in the full frequency ranges. WE says they may have it available this year but right now they are focusing on the general use tubes as a result of the predicted shortages from the Ukrainian/Russian war. But the mullards don’t suck it’s just not my preference


----------



## Winterwolf

I am using the Mullard's in my MHA200 and I really think they add to the punchiness of the MHA200. Of course this is based on personal taste. I consider them an upgrade over the default tubes and would recommend to give them a try if you are into tube rolling.


----------



## Loftprojection

TSAVJason said:


> To be on point if they build it as we discussed the new unit possibly named the MHA250 it will be a serious amp at about $3500 and feature loaded. The new VC will be dual function again but easier for those that don’t understand alternate preamp functions like the MHA200 uses ….. that’s all I can discuss about it at the point. Hopefully I’ll be able to disclose more toward the end of this year. I’m kinda in a keep my mouth shut mode at the moment


This is great info Jason, very nice of you to provide it.

In case you have some kind of influence I'd like to share a need!    Now that this market is growing, I really hope headphone amp designers will start to consider that not all their customers use these at a work desk sitting in and office chair.  A lot of us have this type of amp installed in their living room and relax on a sofa a few feet away from the equipment.  For this type of use, a remote control for volume adjustment is crucial and again a lot of us want a headphone amp that is similar in functions to an stereo integrated, not have to control the volume with the source/DAC.  

Thanks a lot and please continue sharing future development, we love it!


----------



## TSAVJason (Apr 1, 2022)

Loftprojection said:


> This is great info Jason, very nice of you to provide it.
> 
> In case you have some kind of influence I'd like to share a need!    Now that this market is growing, I really hope headphone amp designers will start to consider that not all their customers use these at a work desk sitting in and office chair.  A lot of us have this type of amp installed in their living room and relax on a sofa a few feet away from the equipment.  For this type of use, a remote control for volume adjustment is crucial and again a lot of us want a headphone amp that is similar in functions to an stereo integrated, not have to control the volume with the source/DAC.
> 
> Thanks a lot and please continue sharing future development, we love it!


😂😂😂 couch potatoes! Just kidding. It is a feature being discussed. McIntosh is actively trying to bring products like this to market at a reasonable cost so we’ll see how it goes. It is a good suggestion and I present all good ideas I can to them as we discuss product features


----------



## Lépine

Loftprojection said:


> This is great info Jason, very nice of you to provide it.
> 
> In case you have some kind of influence I'd like to share a need!    Now that this market is growing, I really hope headphone amp designers will start to consider that not all their customers use these at a work desk sitting in and office chair.  A lot of us have this type of amp installed in their living room and relax on a sofa a few feet away from the equipment.  For this type of use, a remote control for volume adjustment is crucial and again a lot of us want a headphone amp that is similar in functions to an stereo integrated, not have to control the volume with the source/DAC.
> 
> Thanks a lot and please continue sharing future development, we love it!


@Loftprojection I don't know, my feelings is that less is more. The less "things" in the signal path is always better. I would prefer lower cost, less complications and purer signal and less digital and certainly less motorized devices in my amps. 

Changing the subject: 
I finally opened up my old favorite "tubey" sounding vintage California Audio Labs original Sigma serial #2xx. I'm the original owner. I got a really nice high gain low noise Silvania for it. Wow, I had forgotten how sweet this D/A sounded until I yanked the tired stock Chinese tube. Yes, it isn't going to sound as accurate as a Chord Hugo2, but it is a nice relaxing sound.


----------



## NoTimeFor

Does any one know if I can use 3 pin balanced out connections with a pair of Genelec 8020D speakers? What load should I use?


----------



## TSAVJason

It’s preamp level. There is no load designation for using the MHA200 as a preamp to your powered speakers.


----------



## vo_obgyn (May 8, 2022)

Has anyone tried some tube dampers (eg. Herbie’s Audio Labs, etc.) on the MHA200 tubes? Any comments? I was thinking about getting a couple of them for the 12AT7 tubes.


----------



## Crgreen

vo_obgyn said:


> Has anyone tried some tube dampers (eg. Herbie’s Audio Labs, etc.) on the MHA200 tubes? Any comments? I was thinking about getting a couple of them for the 12AT7 tubes.


To dampen vibrations from where exactly? If you’re listening on headphones you won’t be listening on speakers.


----------



## vo_obgyn

Some people say that audio output quality is enhanced or diminished with tube dampers. It can be a controversial topic though. Some people even feel that tube damping is in the snake oil camp. Others say that they love the sound they have when tube dampers are employed.  

Here is what Herbie’s Audio Labs says about tube dampers:
“Virtually all vacuum tubes are prone to distortion caused by microphonic vibrations. To overcome audible distortions, a titanium C-ring holds microphonics-absorbing pads against the vacuum tube bulb. The tube's sound is made more clear and precise, less fuzzy and less harsh. Tonal qualities are rendered more true and natural, subtle passages more distinguishable, from the deepest bass through the highest frequencies.”


----------



## Crgreen

vo_obgyn said:


> Some people say that audio output quality is enhanced or diminished with tube dampers. It can be a controversial topic though. Some people even feel that tube damping is in the snake oil camp. Others say that they love the sound they have when tube dampers are employed.
> 
> Here is what Herbie’s Audio Labs says about tube dampers:
> “Virtually all vacuum tubes are prone to distortion caused by microphonic vibrations. To overcome audible distortions, a titanium C-ring holds microphonics-absorbing pads against the vacuum tube bulb. The tube's sound is made more clear and precise, less fuzzy and less harsh. Tonal qualities are rendered more true and natural, subtle passages more distinguishable, from the deepest bass through the highest frequencies.”


I appreciate all of that, but my original question remains: when listening on headphones what is the source of the microphonic vibrations?


----------



## vo_obgyn

Crgreen said:


> I appreciate all of that, but my original question remains: when listening on headphones what is the source of the microphonic vibrations?


Hi Crgreen. My understanding is that the tubes themselves are the source of microphonic vibrations. Maybe some others can chime in?


----------



## ABQ2

Loftprojection said:


> This is great info Jason, very nice of you to provide it.
> 
> In case you have some kind of influence I'd like to share a need!    Now that this market is growing, I really hope headphone amp designers will start to consider that not all their customers use these at a work desk sitting in and office chair.  A lot of us have this type of amp installed in their living room and relax on a sofa a few feet away from the equipment.  For this type of use, a remote control for volume adjustment is crucial and again a lot of us want a headphone amp that is similar in functions to an stereo integrated, not have to control the volume with the source/DAC.
> 
> Thanks a lot and please continue sharing future development, we love it!


I too listen right at the source, not at the computer.  I have the Mullards and listen to vinyl with an MC cartridge with the Mac MP100 preamp and the the MHA200.  Focal Utopia phones.  After paying special attention to phono cable routing and connections I have very black background and fantastic sound.  Volume control on the subject amp is a pain but well worth it for the result.  I have vinyl from the sixties that sound brand new.


----------



## vo_obgyn (May 14, 2022)

TSAVJason said:


> Mullards make the MHA200 a tad more aggressive. Assertive in dynamics


I just received my Mullard CV4024's. Agree with Jason - more aggressive dynamics by a tad. Sounds great though. Jason, or others, what other differences besides dynamics do you hear when you compare the Mullards to the stock JJ tubes?


----------



## Yesthereisgasinthecar

vo_obgyn said:


> Hi Crgreen. My understanding is that the tubes themselves are the source of microphonic vibrations. Maybe some others can chime in?


Since you invited ; in this scenario, I would lean towards snake oil.  At least, you'd need many double blind tests to remove the placebo effect and get a legitimate before and after consensus of sound quality improvement.  Given that tube manufacturers and users of tubes, from an OEM standpoint, want to put their products in the best light possible, you would think that they would bring such dampers 'in house' to take advantage of their benefits if they did in fact exist. The fact that they remain aftermarket probably tells us all that we need to know.


----------



## Crgreen

Yesthereisgasinthecar said:


> Since you invited ; in this scenario, I would lean towards snake oil.  At least, you'd need many double blind tests to remove the placebo effect and get a legitimate before and after consensus of sound quality improvement.  Given that tube manufacturers and users of tubes, from an OEM standpoint, want to put their products in the best light possible, you would think that they would bring such dampers 'in house' to take advantage of their benefits if they did in fact exist. The fact that they remain aftermarket probably tells us all that we need to know.


Audio Research do provide dampers, two for each of the smaller tubes, with their products.

I suppose my point was that although tubes are known to be microphonic (something exploited by certain guitarists) my understanding was that the cause of the vibrations is external sound waves, such as from speakers (which won’t play a part in headphone listening) not the tubes themselves. I accept however, that some suggest nearby transformers can generate vibrations picked up by tubes.


----------



## qboogie

Regarding tube ruggedness (aka its ability to resist microphonics and vibrations), one might want to pay attention to whether the tubes are designated military spec (for example vacuum tubes used in aviation or in naval applications). Another sign of ruggedness is the use of triple mica spacers, being more stable than tubes with double mica. One will encounter these terms questing for decent vintage 12AT7 tubes for the MHA200


----------



## valphil7780

I purchased an Alpha-Core Goertz TQ2 cable to connect my BlueSound 2021 with the MHA200. Is it a good choice ? This allows me to connect it balanced from RCA (BlueSound) to double XLR (MHA200)


----------



## Newsee

valphil7780 said:


> I purchased an Alpha-Core Goertz TQ2 cable to connect my BlueSound 2021 with the MHA200. Is it a good choice ? This allows me to connect it balanced from RCA (BlueSound) to double XLR (MHA200)


Why would you make it complicated? From RCA go to RCA, from XLR go to XLR. 
However, if you have invested already in a silver interconnect cable and you like it, just use it.

The MHA200 is internally single ended, so there must be something inside that transforms the XLR to SE before the amplification. I do not remember if it was particularly discussed here. Usually it is a small transformer. When it is implemented properly it shall not affect the sound too much.


----------



## valphil7780

Newsee said:


> Why would you make it complicated? From RCA go to RCA, from XLR go to XLR.
> However, if you have invested already in a silver interconnect cable and you like it, just use it.
> 
> The MHA200 is internally single ended, so there must be something inside that transforms the XLR to SE before the amplification. I do not remember if it was particularly discussed here. Usually it is a small transformer. When it is implemented properly it shall not affect the sound too much.


I therefore committed a stupidity by buying cable ... I thought that it would make it possible to use the balanced inputs of the mha. the bluesound does not have an xlr output


----------



## Deleeh

You can easily use a cable from XLR to Rca - there is nothing wrong with that.
I did this on my Dac as it only has one RCA output and the XLR was free.

What I can't say is whether 4 volts then arrive at the Mcintosh instead of 2 volts.
At best, it is regulated down.


----------



## valphil7780

Deleeh said:


> You can easily use a cable from XLR to Rca - there is nothing wrong with that.
> I did this on my Dac as it only has one RCA output and the XLR was free.
> 
> What I can't say is whether 4 volts then arrive at the Mcintosh instead of 2 volts.
> At best, it is regulated down.


thank you for the information. what equipment do you have to power the mha200?


----------



## valphil7780

valphil7780 said:


> thank you for the information. what equipment do you have to power the mha200?





valphil7780 said:


> thank you for the information. what equipment do you have to power the mha200?


Otherwise for the cable I had a 2 RCA / 2 RCA AudioQuest Big Sur but I preferred to change to the balanced Goertz


----------



## ochre korg (Jun 8, 2022)

So now I have replaced the original 12AT7 tubes for Gold Lion Ecc81 tubes, and the first hour playing sounds great, only on the V3 position I notice on the top on the left side the “orange dot” or little light shines weakly, and on the right side no light at all, is this a bad thing? Does it matter? Or is this ok?


----------



## Newsee

ochre korg said:


> So now I have replaced the original 12AT7 tubes for Gold Lion Ecc81 tubes, and the first hour playing sounds great, only on the V3 position I notice on the top on the left side the “orange dot” or little light shines weakly, and on the right side no light at all, is this a bad thing? Does it matter? Or is this ok?


A picture would help to decide what sort of orange dot you have. Red plating was discussed around here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mcintosh-mha200-impressions.957625/post-16719317

 Is it similar to the one on the tube on V4 position?


----------



## ochre korg

Hey 
hey Newsee it’s not red plating, I mean you see near the top of the tube the orange/red dot? It should lighten up when the tubes are on, but on v3 it’s almost unnoticable


----------



## Newsee

The red dot is the heating of the cathode. I am not an expert, but I would not worry until I hear an imbalance between the right and left side. 
Swapping the right and left tube can tell if that is caused by the tube properties or the amp. 

This green light looks pretty in the darkness. Time for me to remove the protective cover again?


----------



## ochre korg

Newsee said:


> The red dot is the heating of the cathode. I am not an expert, but I would not worry until I hear an imbalance between the right and left side.
> Swapping the right and left tube can tell if that is caused by the tube properties or the amp.


That’s a great idea, I will do that when the sound will get bad, now the sound is just beyond great 😁👌🏼


----------



## louis9

qboogie said:


> Regarding tube ruggedness (aka its ability to resist microphonics and vibrations), one might want to pay attention to whether the tubes are designated military spec (for example vacuum tubes used in aviation or in naval applications). Another sign of ruggedness is the use of triple mica spacers, being more stable than tubes with double mica. One will encounter these terms questing for decent vintage 12AT7 tubes for the MHA200


do you have any tube recommendations for MHA200?


----------



## qboogie

Vintage Sylvania gold brand triple mica black plates  if you like smooth and balanced across the spectrum. These, as I have mentioned before, are highly desirable.

Old British Mullard 6201 which I got from here

http://mullardtubes.com/Mullard-ECC81-12AT7-6201-GOLD-PIN/?ID=0&ProductID=204

The mullard tubes are what I have in place right now and they sound like a better fit for the MHA200 and verité open. Compliments the mid-range even more and has less softness than the Sylvania.

I might sell the Sylvania gold brand if anyone is interested


----------



## Slim1970

qboogie said:


> Vintage Sylvania gold brand triple mica black plates  if you like smooth and balanced across the spectrum. These, as I have mentioned before, are highly desirable.
> 
> Old British Mullard 6201 which I got from here
> 
> ...


The 6201's are what I'm currently rolling in my MHA200. It's a great sounding tube in this amp.


----------



## TSAVJason

vo_obgyn said:


> I just received my Mullard CV4024's. Agree with Jason - more aggressive dynamics by a tad. Sounds great though. Jason, or others, what other differences besides dynamics do you hear when you compare the Mullards to the stock JJ tubes?


Sorry for the late replay. I was in the hospital with a back injury. Not much else for a difference ….maybe just a slight decrease in the sound stage but a slight pick up in the upper mids.


----------



## Deleeh

TSAVJason said:


> Sorry for the late replay. I was in the hospital with a back injury. Not much else for a difference ….maybe just a slight decrease in the sound stage but a slight pick up in the upper mids.


Get well soon and hope your back gets better.😉✌️😉✌️


----------



## TSAVJason

Deleeh said:


> Get well soon and hope your back gets better.😉✌️😉✌️


Thank you! I'm already doing much better


----------



## mlundy57

I received my MHA 200 a couple weeks ago. The sound was very good and was dead quiet with all my headphones except my favorite ones, the 50mm open back model from Swansong Audio. These are very revealing, low impedance, high sensitivity (24 ohm/110ish dB) headphones that demand a really low noise floor. I've tried them with many headphone amps that are described as dead quiet with high sensitivity IEMs only to find they are not dead quiet with the Swansong Audio headphones. Maybe I'm spoiled, but noise, even if it's only audible between tracks, really bugs me.

Based on recommendations I read earlier in this thread, I picked up a pair of Mullard CV4024s that were matched for high gain, low noise and microphonics, and balanced triodes. Replacing the stock tubes with these reduced, but did not totally eliminate the audible tube noise. That left the 12BH7s.  I was able to get some matched super low noise (phono grade) NOS RCA 12BH7As. After replacing the stock 12BH7As with the RCAs the MHA was dead quiet even with the Swansong Audio headphones. With the new tubes, the MHA200's sound is fuller, smoother, more dynamic, and more resolving. All in all, a much more pleasing listening experience. One I'm very satisfied with and feel the amp was worth the wait.

The MHA 200 is being fed by a PS Audio DirectStream DAC with the network bridge via balanced connections. Music sources are the PS Audio PerfectWave SACD transport and a music server running ROON. The volume control on the MHA 200 is set a little past the detent, around 1 o'clock and left there. Volume is controlled by the DAC.


----------



## Slim1970

mlundy57 said:


> I received my MHA 200 a couple weeks ago. The sound was very good and was dead quiet with all my headphones except my favorite ones, the 50mm open back model from Swansong Audio. These are very revealing, low impedance, high sensitivity (24 ohm/110ish dB) headphones that demand a really low noise floor. I've tried them with many headphone amps that are described as dead quiet with high sensitivity IEMs only to find they are not dead quiet with the Swansong Audio headphones. Maybe I'm spoiled, but noise, even if it's only audible between tracks, really bugs me.
> 
> Based on recommendations I read earlier in this thread, I picked up a pair of Mullard CV4024s that were matched for high gain, low noise and microphonics, and balanced triodes. Replacing the stock tubes with these reduced, but did not totally eliminate the audible tube noise. That left the 12BH7s.  I was able to get some matched super low noise (phono grade) NOS RCA 12BH7As. After replacing the stock 12BH7As with the RCAs the MHA was dead quiet even with the Swansong Audio headphones. With the new tubes, the MHA200's sound is fuller, smoother, more dynamic, and more resolving. All in all, a much more pleasing listening experience. One I'm very satisfied with and feel the amp was worth the wait.
> 
> The MHA 200 is being fed by a PS Audio DirectStream DAC with the network bridge via balanced connections. Music sources are the PS Audio PerfectWave SACD transport and a music server running ROON. The volume control on the MHA 200 is set a little past the detent, around 1 o'clock and left there. Volume is controlled by the DAC.


I may have to look into replacing the 12BH7 after reading this. I don’t have a problem with the noise floor of my MHA200, but I like the way you are describing what the RCA tubes are adding to the sound.


----------



## mlundy57

I can't tell how much of the sonic differences are from the Mullard 12AT7s and from the RCA 12BH7s individually. This is because I was focusing on getting rid of the noise first. Since there was still some noise present after replacing the 12AT7s, I immediately replaced the 12BH7s. After this the noise was gone. Since the noise was now gone, I allowed the tubes to warm up for a few hours before listening. This means the sonic improvements I'm hearing are likely due to the combination of the Mulards and RCA. Also, the tubes are no where near burned in yet so there may be more changes ahead.


----------



## qboogie

I am thinking about replacing my MHA200 with the Feliks Euforia (AE or standard edition). 

Can anyone who has experience with both talk me out of it?


----------



## Newsee

Right now I am listening to 'The Tunnel' from the Tord Gustavsen Trio. 
Empyrean driven by the MHA200. Sublime.

Why would you change? I have no experience with the Euforia, but someone wrote here that the tubes types for tube rolling on Euforia are pretty much sold out, not available, very expensive. Based on price it would be anyway a sidegrade. If something, go for the Envy!

(I hope it was at least a nice try  )


----------



## Slim1970

qboogie said:


> I am thinking about replacing my MHA200 with the Feliks Euforia (AE or standard edition).
> 
> Can anyone who has experience with both talk me out of it?


Not sure, if they are better amps. You may get more ”tube” flavor but it will come at with a loss of some detail and transient snap. My next move it I were to move on from the MHA200 would be the Cayin HA-300Mk2.


----------



## qboogie

Slim1970 said:


> Not sure, if they are better amps. You may get more ”tube” flavor but it will come at with a loss of some detail and transient snap. My next move it I were to move on from the MHA200 would be the Cayin HA-300Mk2.


Yeah  that monster has me intrigued, but I'm trying to keep my gear minimal because I'm moving soon.


----------



## Deleeh

qboogie said:


> I am thinking about replacing my MHA200 with the Feliks Euforia (AE or standard edition).
> 
> Can anyone who has experience with both talk me out of it?


Hello,
You have 2-3 headphones in your collection if they are correct where it might be a little suboptimal for the Euforia amplifier.
Especially with planar headphones, the Euforia is somewhat limited in this respect.

Strangely enough, the Euforia should have no problems with the Lcd X, but with the Aeon R/T it starts to distort.

Apart from that, the Euforia is very neutrally tuned with the house tubes.
There are enough tubes to tune it differently.
However, the tendency is that tube rolling can be a bit expensive.

That's a bit of a drawback to it in my opinion.

Otherwise, it's a good amp but not necessarily the best.
There are certainly other amps on the market that are better suited to your equipment.
QuickSilver,Decware,Woo Audio,Cayin mentioned might be more what you are looking for I guess.
The Mha 200 is certainly not wrong either I think it will have less problems driving the Stealth and Abyss I guess.

Maybe wait for the upcoming Zmf tube amp that is supposed to come soon.
Maybe that will be something too.


----------



## ochre korg

Has anyone heard the MHA 200 in combination with the Primaluna EVO 100 DAC?


----------



## NickT23

ochre korg said:


> Has anyone heard the MHA 200 in combination with the Primaluna EVO 100 DAC?


Certainly not me. At least for poor people.


----------



## qboogie

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> You have 2-3 headphones in your collection if they are correct where it might be a little suboptimal for the Euforia amplifier.
> Especially with planar headphones, the Euforia is somewhat limited in this respect.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the responses, folks. I guess I'll hold off for now.

I only plan to use the Verite with the tube amp, but if it could drive something like the stealth then that would be worth the wait


----------



## Slim1970

qboogie said:


> Thanks for the responses, folks. I guess I'll hold off for now.
> 
> I only plan to use the Verite with the tube amp, but if it could drive something like the stealth then that would be worth the wait


You don't like the Stealth out of the MHA200?


----------



## qboogie

Nah not particularly. The bottom end is a little too loose for me


----------



## Slim1970

qboogie said:


> Nah not particularly. The bottom end is a little too loose for me


Gotcha, sounds like the Stealth's might be better on solid state amps.


----------



## Deleeh

qboogie said:


> Thanks for the responses, folks. I guess I'll hold off for now.
> 
> I only plan to use the Verite with the tube amp, but if it could drive something like the stealth then that would be worth the wait


So when we talk about the Verite.
Are there other ways to drive it well?
The Feliks Echo would be a good thing, the QuickSilver headphone amplifier will probably be better, which supposedly also supports planar headphones better.
That could possibly be interesting for you.

What Zmf has worked out with Decware is not yet 100% known.
I assume that it will be more geared towards Zmf headphones.

I am a bit surprised if you already have the Mha200, it should actually be reasonable as a tube amplifier, apart from the one cosmetic and operating thing that has already been criticised several times.
Or am I seeing it wrong?


----------



## u2u2

qboogie said:


> I am thinking about replacing my MHA200 with the Feliks Euforia (AE or standard edition).
> 
> Can anyone who has experience with both talk me out of it?


Maybe Jason will jump in but aren't we getting very close to the MHA300 he spoke about last year? I would wait to see what Macintosh drops.


----------



## qboogie

u2u2 said:


> Maybe Jason will jump in but aren't we getting very close to the MHA300 he spoke about last year? I would wait to see what Macintosh drops.


Yeah I guess I'll wait to see what they come up with, but it would have to leave no question as to its superiority. Looking around for a used Auris HA2-SF or Cayin amp. Part of the MHA200 appeal is its aesthetic and small footprint on my small audio cart. I'm moving into a house finally and can afford a lot more deskspace so balling out on a larger, prettier amp is officially an option (but keeping price in the same 2-3K USD range since the house cost a fortune)


----------



## NickT23

qboogie said:


> Yeah I guess I'll wait to see what they come up with, but it would have to leave no question as to its superiority. Looking around for a used Auris HA2-SF or Cayin amp. Part of the MHA200 appeal is its aesthetic and small footprint on my small audio cart. I'm moving into a house finally and can afford a lot more deskspace so balling out on a larger, prettier amp is officially an option (but keeping price in the same 2-3K USD range since the house cost a fortune)


How much is your house ?


----------



## qboogie

Deleeh said:


> So when we talk about the Verite.
> Are there other ways to drive it well?
> The Feliks Echo would be a good thing, the QuickSilver headphone amplifier will probably be better, which supposedly also supports planar headphones better.
> That could possibly be interesting for you.
> ...


I had the Echo MK1 and it was decent as my first foray into tubeland. Bass and detail could have been better for my tastes though, but a good start.

The MHA200 performs well with my VO but rounds off a bit of microdetail if I'm being honest. Bass sounds a little mushy, but it could be the mullard 6201 tubes I'm rolling (they only have 40-50 hrs on them though). With the stealth, I need that detail to be maxed out to further enhance the sense of space and dimensionality, and the bass needs to kick and I'm disappointed with the amp pairing here. I'll give it some more time for tubes to burn in before I try rolling tubes again.

The other little annoyance is that the RCA jacks are too close together, forcing me to reluctantly unscrew the barrels of my thicker Lessloss C-MARC RCA connectors to fit. It makes me pretty nervous to do so.


----------



## qboogie

NickT23 said:


> How much is your house ?


1.23 million. To my surprise, we _only_ paid 11% over asking, compared to approx 20% typical to this part of north NJ. It is in great condition though and really well cared for. This market is absolutely bonkers, with mortgage interest rates rising, inflation being what it is, and Covid driving families out of NYC, and my finances after resigning from my medical practice in March;  it was just time to do it. The market may burst soon, but I got tired of waiting these past 2 years.

Interestingly, the former homeowners were into high-end audio. There were Rotel power amplifiers, Polk speakers, and Paradigm subwoofers scattered throughout the house. I made sure to mention this in the "buyer love letter."  I promised to fill the home with gorgeous music from dope gear and we ended up getting the house despite being 20K shy of the top bid.


----------



## NickT23

qboogie said:


> 1.23 million. To my surprise, we _only_ paid 11% over asking, compared to approx 20% typical to this part of north NJ. It is in great condition though and really well cared for. This market is absolutely bonkers, with mortgage interest rates rising, inflation being what it is, and Covid driving families out of NYC, and my finances after resigning from my medical practice in March;  it was just time to do it. The market may burst soon, but I got tired of waiting these past 2 years.
> 
> Interestingly, the former homeowners were into high-end audio. There were Rotel power amplifiers, Polk speakers, and Paradigm subwoofers scattered throughout the house. I made sure to mention this in the "buyer love letter."  I promised to fill the home with gorgeous music from dope gear and we ended up getting the house despite being 20K shy of the top bid.


What ?! Sorry hard to believe. Just absurd. I have no right to talk about my house worth to you. If I were to shift house, my audio setup would be the same.


----------



## bluenight

MHA 200 Any good for HD800S?


----------



## TSAVJason

u2u2 said:


> Maybe Jason will jump in but aren't we getting very close to the MHA300 he spoke about last year? I would wait to see what Macintosh drops.


McIntosh is typically a minimum 3 year life span on any product. That would put an MHAXXX about 1.5 years away

As for the tube question. I’m not familiar with the tubes in question when being used with the MHA200. As for the PrimaLuna question. I’m not a dealer and can’t respond


----------



## u2u2

bluenight said:


> MHA 200 Any good for HD800S?


If it helps it is fine with a late 2015 800 and a recent 820.


----------



## TSAVJason

bluenight said:


> MHA 200 Any good for HD800S?


It doesn’t change the sound stage and improves the bass to a small degree ….so yeah! It’s a good pairing


----------



## louis9

TSAVJason said:


> That would depend on the dealer and country. As a reference about $220-250 USD depending on the variables I just provided
> 
> 
> TSAVJason said:
> ...


Jason, can i buy stock mcintosh 12BH7A tube from you?!


----------



## TSAVJason

louis9 said:


> Jason, can i buy stock mcintosh 12BH7A tube from you?!


Sure you can! Give us a call at 310-534-9900 or email Wayne@thesourceav.com


----------



## vo_obgyn (Aug 17, 2022)

What are the signs that the tubes on the MHA 200 need to be replaced? I use my unit daily and it is a year old now. It still has the original stock tubes. Is it a good idea to replace the tubes every year? Thanks.


----------



## TSAVJason

vo_obgyn said:


> What are the signs that the tubes on the MHA 200 need to be replaced? I use my unit daily and it is a year old now. It still has the original stock tubes. Is it a good idea to replace the tubes every year? Thanks.


Tube life is unpredictable but you could expect that after 3 years they are likely ready to be replaced with every day use.


----------



## vo_obgyn

TSAVJason said:


> Tube life is unpredictable but you could expect that after 3 years they are likely ready to be replaced with every day use.


Thanks for the reply. Very helpful 😊


----------



## ochre korg

I have the MHA 200 a half year now, and since yesterday it looks like I enjoy my audio-set a lot more, as if the sound of the amp still grows, I don’t know if it’s the amp, or burn-in of the tubes, or a brain burn-in, but the euphoric listening experience has increased 😄 it sounds more tight now, richer, and mainly more 3D, very happy listener here.


----------



## gonzalo05

ochre korg said:


> I have the MHA 200 a half year now, and since yesterday it looks like I enjoy my audio-set a lot more, as if the sound of the amp still grows, I don’t know if it’s the amp, or burn-in of the tubes, or a brain burn-in, but the euphoric listening experience has increased 😄 it sounds more tight now, richer, and mainly more 3D, very happy listener here.


What source are you using?


----------



## ochre korg

gonzalo05 said:


> What source are you using?


A Marantz SA 12 SE


----------



## gonzalo05

ochre korg said:


> A Marantz SA 12 SE


Nice. I always wanted to try Marantz nicer stuff. I have the CD6005 and PM8004.


----------



## ochre korg

gonzalo05 said:


> Nice. I always wanted to try Marantz nicer stuff. I have the CD6005 and PM8004.


Yes Marantz is very great, I have a HD-DAC1 too, I still use it, for discovering new music connected to my iPhone with spotify, with a Sennheiser 660S, very satisfied with it too 👌🏼


----------



## vo_obgyn (Sep 26, 2022)

Are the stock McIntosh branded MHA200 12BH7A tubes from JJ electronics? These stock McIntosh branded 12BH7A tubes look taller than the 12BH7A JJ Electronics tubes that I am finding online. Is there a particular 12BH7A JJ Electronics that McIntosh uses for their MHA200? Anyone care to chime in?


----------



## TSAVJason

vo_obgyn said:


> Are the stock McIntosh branded MHA200 12BH7A tubes from JJ electronics? These stock McIntosh branded 12BH7A tubes look taller than the 12BH7A JJ Electronics tubes that I am finding online. Is there a particular 12BH7A JJ Electronics that McIntosh uses for their MHA200? Anyone care to chime in?


Yes they are JJ tubes


----------



## vo_obgyn

Thanks Jason. I replaced my 12BHA7 stock tubes with JJ 12BHA7 tubes I purchased online. The replacement tubes are shorter than the stock McIntosh labeled tubes but they sound good. Thanks.


----------



## MacMan31

Do I dare ask how much one of these amps would be? How would it compare to a Feliks Echo Mk2 (which I have)?


----------



## qboogie

MacMan31 said:


> Do I dare ask how much one of these amps would be? How would it compare to a Feliks Echo Mk2 (which I have)?


I just posted this amp for sale bundled with some upgrade tubes for a decent price. I owned the Echo MK1 and it was a solid amp. The MHA200 has the edge in terms of sharper resolution (regardless of tube being used), more focused and upfront mids, and being more versatile with headphones of different impedances. If you prefer OTL tubes, then stick with the Echo MK2


----------



## TSAVJason

qboogie said:


> I just posted this amp for sale bundled with some upgrade tubes for a decent price. I owned the Echo MK1 and it was a solid amp. The MHA200 has the edge in terms of sharper resolution (regardless of tube being used), more focused and upfront mids, and being more versatile with headphones of different impedances. If you prefer OTL tubes, then stick with the Echo MK2


$2500 USD and I’m not allowed to comment on the comparison you asked for


----------



## TSAVJason

MacMan31 said:


> Do I dare ask how much one of these amps would be? How would it compare to a Feliks Echo Mk2 (which I have)?


$2500 for the MHA200


----------



## RobWilde

So thanks to this thread I have joined the club, took delivery of my MHA200 yesterday, with some backup tubes suggested in here too. Dave > MHA > Elites. First impressions before it's had much burn in: I now understand what people mean by holographic. In my old set up I heard all the detail, but with this the detail is in a large circle around me. So thanks.


----------



## em1ke

RobWilde said:


> So thanks to this thread I have joined the club, took delivery of my MHA200 yesterday, with some backup tubes suggested in here too. Dave > MHA > Elites. First impressions before it's had much burn in: I now understand what people mean by holographic. In my old set up I heard all the detail, but with this the detail is in a large circle around me. So thanks


----------



## em1ke

I'm wondering isn't this setup too polite on the top end? I know midrange of MHA200 very well and I'm feeling pretty confident about it.


----------



## TSAVJason

em1ke said:


> I'm wondering isn't this setup too polite on the top end? I know midrange of MHA200 very well and I'm feeling pretty confident about it.


On many headphones the midrange is so luxurious


----------



## RobWilde

em1ke said:


> I'm wondering isn't this setup too polite on the top end? I know midrange of MHA200 very well and I'm feeling pretty confident about it.


I've found I need Meze's silver upgrade cable over copper or stock to just up the top end enough for me to feel absolutely great about it.


----------



## Strat1117

Even though I swore I’d never go back to tubes (I did all tube analog for 30+ years before I decided it was enough), old habits die hard, and I just pulled the trigger on an MHA200 to power my new Audeze LCD-3. Hopefully delivery will be tomorrow or Monday, since the store is in Vestal, only about 3.5 hours from NYC. Sorry @TSAVJason, but both my sons went to Binghamton U., and I have a long history with Audio Classics (plus they gave me a smoking’ deal on a like new trade in with brand new Mc branded tubes*, a 1 year warranty and a satisfaction guarantee on top of that).

*I’ve also got plenty of nice ecc81, 6201 and 12bh7 tubes left over from my VTL days, so I’m ready to roll…

The waiting is the hardest part.


----------



## RobWilde

Hi everyone. Time question.

I've been listening to my MHA200, love it. Currently got the stock tubes in, but when i bought it I got some Mullards and some Electro Harmonix...  Wondering whether I keep going with stock or try tube rolling. I'm sure I read someone in here say it takes 200 hours for it to really sing, and I'm not there with the stock yet, and I'm not unhappy with the stock I just... wonder. Any advice please?


----------



## Strat1117

RobWilde said:


> Hi everyone. Time question.
> 
> I've been listening to my MHA200, love it. Currently got the stock tubes in, but when i bought it I got some Mullards and some Electro Harmonix...  Wondering whether I keep going with stock or try tube rolling. I'm sure I read someone in here say it takes 200 hours for it to really sing, and I'm not there with the stock yet, and I'm not unhappy with the stock I just... wonder. Any advice please?


Tube rolling is a slippery slope - fun, but slippery. If you’re happy, you can wait until you’re unhappy before you start messing around. AND, if cost is a big consideration, that’s the way yo go (tube rolling can become an expensive game).  BUT, otherwise, since you’re already curious, life is short - if you’ve already got ‘em, use ‘em. I’m new to this amp (mine hasn’t even arrived yet), but I’m talking from 30+ years’ experience as an inveterate tube roller. 

YMMV, Just my $.03, etc., _ad naiseum_.


----------



## jfandr147

Hi! 

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, also not sure if it has been covered elsewhere.

I have the Meze Elites, was thinking on pairing them with the McIntosh C8 Preamp (latest) + MHA200.

There is very little information about the C8 on the web. 
But I'm thinking that combining McIntosh PreAmp + Amp might yield good results?

What do you guys think of this combination?
Has anyone tried it?

Would really appreciate any feedback. I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks!


----------



## Newsee

jfandr147 said:


> Hi!
> 
> Not sure if this is the right place to ask, also not sure if it has been covered elsewhere.
> 
> ...


MHA200 pairs very well with Meze Elites. I have no experience with the Mc preamp. 
Even though my DACs are having variable output,  simply use the the MHA200 volume knob for volume control.


----------



## jfandr147

Newsee said:


> MHA200 pairs very well with Meze Elites. I have no experience with the Mc preamp.
> Even though my DACs are having variable output,  simply use the the MHA200 volume knob for volume control.


Got you! Thanks for the insight 

So do you think that adding the C8 Preamp to the chain won't yield any sound improvements?


----------



## u2u2

jfandr147 said:


> Hi!
> 
> Not sure if this is the right place to ask, also not sure if it has been covered elsewhere.
> 
> ...


My MHA200 is paired with a C8/DA2. Awesome. Don't have ME though. Assorted Focal, Sony, Sennheiser. I have posted earlier in this thread...


----------



## Strat1117 (Nov 28, 2022)

TSAVJason said:


> Implemented poorly? I understand if someone doesn’t like it. But their design implementation is how they chose to make it. So how is that implemented poorly?
> 
> Flaw, wrong, poor implementation all these words to me are simply a denial of a deliberate design feature. Your dealer should have shown you how to use it and explained the differences over other headphone products so you could be clear on your choice to buy one. The flaw I see is buyers not understanding what they bought or are considering buying and how it works.


Yes and no. I’ve been a tube guy for 30+ years (having owned multiple VTL, ARC, AI and Prima Luna, and probably a couple of others I can’t think of right now, not to mention a variety of Marshall and Fender tubed guitar amps.  I’ve also had a lot of experience with the MC275 - although I haven’t owned one, my brother does.

Defend it all you like, but it is simply incorrect to label a gain control as volume, and anyone who is flummoxed by this apparently vestigial control is absolutely right to be upset about that totally unnecessary design choice, whether or not you agree with the vocabulary they use to describe their unhappiness. The following is directly from McIntosh’s website regarding the MHA200:

“The VOLUME knob allows the MHA200 to be connected directly to music sources that only have a fixed volume output without needing a preamplifier for volume control.”

Doesn’t indicate that the VOLIME control is anything out of the ordinary, does it?  If this was indeed a deliberate ‘design choice’, then it was a dumb one - it serves no purpose other than to frustrate those who want to use the MHA200 in the normal way. I currently use a $6,000 integrated amp, but I also use speakers, so using the pre out means the speakers will also be on when using the preamp’s volume control, and using the line out, as I have been for headphone amps for 25 years, well, we’re back to the same issue. Not everyone has a headphone only system, and not everyone wants to buy a separate preamp as a volume control for a $2,500 headphone amp that could easily have had one with a usable taper from the word go, without affecting the unity gain ‘design choice’.  A deliberate design choice that causes an apparently serious convenience issue for a large percentage of end users is, even in its best light, foolish. The only thing deliberate about it would appear to be putting off long time and new customers. How is that not a perfect example of flawed thinking??  Maybe there was a fix or an answer later in the thread - I got bored reading the same newb tube questions and the same complaints about the volume control over and over. Even @TSAVJason, who mostly seems to be knowledgeable  about the product (but maybe not about tube rolling***), appears to be ducking giving a straight answer on this particular obvious design mistake. Maybe all that’s needed is to replace the 12at7’s with 12ax7’s for more gain in the front section. But no volume change before 10 o’clock on the volume control is manifestly absurd, intentional or not. Intent does not make a patently bad design choice into a good one, so _please_ stop defending it as if it has ANY merit whatsoever. Gain controls on power amps are mostly an anachronism these days - I’ve only encountered them on my old ARC D-115 mk II, and the MC275. The people who have no problem as the volume control situation on the MHA200 stands still would have had no problem if the volume control were recalibrated. It appears there is no benefit to anyone from the present set up. A design choice implies they chose one benefit over another. That appears not to be the case here, thus, a flaw not a choice.

Mine isn’t even arriving for another day or two and I’m already ready to send it back after reading the first half of this thread. I’m way too old for this crap.

***_While I am normally a big proponent of ‘whatever floats your boat’, I can’t abide misinformation. It is simply not possible that you found the Mc labeled current JJ tubes mellower with a better soundstage than NOS Mullard CV4024 or 6201, unless you were referring to the current production Russian tubes labeled Mullard, in which case you should have made that clear, because those are not the Mullards people should be rolling into this amp. Real NOS Mullards are known far and wide in both guitar and audio circles as the mellow, sweet choice. Your description of them as more aggressive with a smaller soundstage simply cannot be reconciled with that reality. Similarly, as to the guys who had problems with their plates going cherry on the 12bh7, it could well be a flaw in the oem Mc tube, which uses a 12at7 size envelope for a tube that was designed for much taller glass and, perforce, a much larger plate. I am confident that changing to the taller tube is what solved the problem (notwithstanding the owners complaint that it was ‘butt ugly’; a truly sophisticated tube user.). Take a look at a 1950’s Sylvania Gold Label or an RCA black plate 12bh7 - both tall with long plates, as the tube was designed. That’s why the replacement eh tubes were taller and, I’d wager, that’s why they solved the cherry red plate issue.

Finally, someone suggested that tube dampers were snake oil because manufacturers don’t use them. That is false information and bad advice. ARC, for just one example, has been using dampers on their small tubes for 20+ years, and I’m sure others are too. Some tubes are more responsive to damping than others, and too much damping will make your amp sound dead, but damping often works well and its effects are obvious and repeatable. In fact, you can ‘tune’ the dampers by moving them up and down the tube as you listen for the seeet spot.  I prefer herbies dampers to the rubber band type used by arc, and I usually use them only on input tubes - never on power tubes - and not on every small tube or even on every piece of equipment. _

YMMV, just my $.03, etc., _ad nauseum_.


----------



## Newsee

jfandr147 said:


> Got you! Thanks for the insight
> 
> So do you think that adding the C8 Preamp to the chain won't yield any sound improvements?


As I've never heard  the C8 I can not tell anything from experience. 
For the price of C8+MHA200 you can (almost) get something on an even higher level, e.g. Feliks Audio Envy.
What is your current DAC/amp that you are driving the Elite with?


----------



## Revelation Sound

I have a NAD 658 preamp and I believe the headphone output on this unit is ok. I am looking forward in trying out the MHA200 with my Focal Clear MG's and Beyerdynamic 1990's. I have a feeling that the difference will be substantial. This is a very helpful thread with good information. I know you can get cheaper tube headphone amps like the Schitt Lyr, but having a McIntosh MC152 amp, getting a nicely designed Mcintosh headphone amp seems like it would be a great option. I heard you can turn off the standby model, do most owners activate this?


----------



## jfandr147

Newsee said:


> As I've never heard  the C8 I can not tell anything from experience.
> For the price of C8+MHA200 you can (almost) get something on an even higher level, e.g. Feliks Audio Envy.
> What is your current DAC/amp that you are driving the Elite with?


My current set up is a Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC (which I use for my main stereo system as well). Headphone Amp Burson Soloist.

I wanted more of a tube sound, since the burson sounds a bit too analytical.


----------



## Revelation Sound

I really am drawn to this headphone amp, however SPL is a audio company that is very respected in the audio and mastering studios. They have a really good headphone amp that is $1,000 less than the McIntosh. Here is a review of it. 
https://www.headphonecheck.com/test/spl-phonitor-se/

When considering what headphone amp to purchase, you always need to consider what else are you using in your chain. My NAD 658 preamp has a DAC that has a slight warm sound. I was not aware of this until I compared it to my friends Matrix DAC which is more detailed and crystal clear. I thought about purchasing the Matrix but I found some recordings with it could sound a little harsh in the top end. 

I have some experience with SPL and this solid state headphone amp is very clean, open and detailed. As my Focal Clear MG's don't have an open spacious sound like Sennheisser 800S, I am thinking the SPL might be a better choice, plus its $1,000 cheaper than the McIntosh. If I had the 800's, I think the McIntosh MCA200 would be a better choice. The question is I am not sure if I would like the SPL better with my setup over the McIntosh.


----------



## Strat1117 (Dec 2, 2022)

Revelation Sound said:


> I really am drawn to this headphone amp, however SPL is a audio company that is very respected in the audio and mastering studios. They have a really good headphone amp that is $1,000 less than the McIntosh. Here is a review of it.
> https://www.headphonecheck.com/test/spl-phonitor-se/
> 
> When considering what headphone amp to purchase, you always need to consider what else are you using in your chain. My NAD 658 preamp has a DAC that has a slight warm sound. I was not aware of this until I compared it to my friends Matrix DAC which is more detailed and crystal clear. I thought about purchasing the Matrix but I found some recordings with it could sound a little harsh in the top end.
> ...


No one can tell you what you will like better other than yourself.  You have to try and see, because there is no way to predict synergy, or the lack of synergy.  The McIntosh is a wonderful amp, and, except for the wonky volume control which, to me, is more of an annoying quibble than a real 'problem', it is worth what they ask for it. All I can tell you is that I absolutely love it with my Audeze LCD-3 and my modified Sennheiser HD650, but that doesn't mean anything for you and your Focals.  SPL amps are great, and many love them, but they are also solid state and, no matter what any one tells you, solid state doesn't sound like tube (nor do all solid state or tube amps sound like each other).  SPL also has that crossfeed circuit which some like and others think is a gimmicky - no right or wrong answer, just personal taste.  In my personal opinion, the McIntosh has it all over the SPL in terms of form factor, pride of ownership, and general coolness, but that is all so personal and subjective.  If you like the McIntosh sound, you won't get it from the SPL - but the reverse is also true.  Unless there is a real mismatch (which is unlikely), there is no way to say one is objectively 'better' than the other. Same way we can't tell you whether or not you are going to prefer Ben and Jerry's New York Super Fudge Chunk or Carvel  soft vanilla with chocolate sprinkles, we can't tell you which amp and can combo you will prefer.  Both are great, but as to which you will prefer - only you can be the judge of that.  I'm sure someone here will be willing to tell you which one you should buy - I'm telling you to ignore that person and find a way to hear both with your headphones and your music so you can make up your own mind whether you prefer one over the other, and whether it is worth the difference in price _to you_.

YMMV, just my $.03, etc., _ad nauseum_.


----------



## Newsee

Revelation Sound said:


> I really am drawn to this headphone amp, however SPL is a audio company that is very respected in the audio and mastering studios. They have a really good headphone amp that is $1,000 less than the McIntosh. Here is a review of it.
> https://www.headphonecheck.com/test/spl-phonitor-se/
> 
> When considering what headphone amp to purchase, you always need to consider what else are you using in your chain. My NAD 658 preamp has a DAC that has a slight warm sound. I was not aware of this until I compared it to my friends Matrix DAC which is more detailed and crystal clear. I thought about purchasing the Matrix but I found some recordings with it could sound a little harsh in the top end.
> ...


I have a Burson Conductor 3XR, which is not a bad dac/amp, for quite a while now. It could not bind me to the chair/desk, most of my listening continued to happen on my DAPs. Since I have the MHA200, I do sit down regularly, just because of it's tube magic.


----------



## Strat1117 (Dec 3, 2022)

Tube rolling time!

Tried RFT, Penta Labs (Sino) and, of course, Mullard 6201. To me, the Mullard 6201 trounce the oem 12at7 in every way: clearer, cleaner, better definition and detail, better extension, more silence between sounds and more palpable space between musicians, even a little louder and more present, all without adding grain or unnatural bite - the whole geschicte. The oem 12at7 (rebranded JJ?) sound soft, flabby and congested by comparison. Unfortunately, the old 12bh7 tubes I have at home, which were fine as driver tubes in my old VTL amps, were all noisy and unusable as power tubes in the Mc, but, since the oem 12bh7A are allowing me to hear all the good stuff the Mullards are doing, then it stands to reason that they are involuted enough that I don’t need to be in a rush to replace them (IMHO, the input/driver tubes form the sound and have more overall effect on what you hear than the power tubes, whose job it is to amplify what they are getting from the input tubes. That doesn’t mean they don’t contribute to the overall sound, just in a different way. IMHO.)

But for the as yet unsatisfactorily explained wonky volume control, this could be a contender for best overall tube amp under $5k. Maybe even more. It’s really a sweet piece of gear. 

YMMV, just my $.03, etc., _ad nauseum.




_


----------



## jonathan c

I was interested in the MHA200 _but _that non-IEC power socket quelled that interest. That socket / cable arrangement is more suited to a “wall wart” switching power supply 😟👎.


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## Strat1117 (Dec 3, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> I was interested in the MHA200 _but _that non-IEC power socket quelled that interest. That socket / cable arrangement is more suited to a “wall wart” switching power supply 😟👎.


I don’t disagree, but for me that concern was easily remedied with a C7>C14 adapter.  Although I could certainly understand if you were uncomfortable that solution.

Plus, the non-polarized designed allows you to switch polarity, something to which I am given to understand some ears (not mine) are sensitive.


----------



## vo_obgyn

Has anyone paired up the MHA200 with the Focal Utopia 2022 cans? Any impressions?


----------



## kopczas

Crowbar44 said:


> they recommend keeping the MHA200 pot at 12:00


So there is volume control but they prefer not to use it by user???!!!!! I call it zoo engineering.


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## Strat1117 (Dec 4, 2022)

kopczas said:


> So there is volume control but they prefer not to use it by user???!!!!! I call it zoo engineering.


Huh?  You take one sentence out of context from an extremely long, 18 month old post and write something that makes no sense at all.

Edit:  Never mind.  I see you have all of 19 posts and 4 ‘likes’. You are obviously to be ignored. B-bye.


----------



## ABQ2

vo_obgyn said:


> Has anyone paired up the MHA200 with the Focal Utopia 2022 cans? Any impressions?


I have the original Utopias and the MHA200.  To die for.


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## vo_obgyn (Dec 4, 2022)

ABQ2 said:


> I have the original Utopias and the MHA200.  To die for.


Thanks for your reply. With your original Utopias, have you tried tube swapping the MHA200, I'm wondering?


----------



## ABQ2

vo_obgyn said:


> Thanks for your reply. With your original Utopias, have you tried tube swapping the MHA200, I'm wondering?


I replaced the 12AT7's with Mallard's.


----------



## u2u2

ABQ2 said:


> I replaced the 12AT7's with Mallard's.


Myself, I avoided the ducks and left them in the pond... I went with Mullard 6201. Rather nice with the OG Utopia 
Autocorrect is a bear.


----------



## vo_obgyn

u2u2 said:


> Myself, I avoided the ducks and left them in the pond... I went with Mullard 6201. Rather nice with the OG Utopia
> Autocorrect is a bear.


LOL Thanks. I have heard that the Mullard ECC81/12AT7/CV4024 tubes sound good on the MHA200 as well. The OG Utopias sound great with tube amplification, I've heard.


----------



## jonathan c

ABQ2 said:


> I replaced the 12AT7's with Mallard's.


Do those tubes have webbed getters? 🤪


----------



## Strat1117 (Dec 7, 2022)

vo_obgyn said:


> LOL Thanks. I have heard that the Mullard ECC81/12AT7/CV4024 tubes sound good on the MHA200 as well. The OG Utopias sound great with tube amplification, I've heard.


Mullards are definitely a good choice for the 12at7s. All of the 12bh7s I had on the house turned out to be too noisy for this application, so I haven’t been able to experiment with those yet, and I may never get to.

[Begin Rant]
After my dealer, who agreed that the wonky volume control set up was inexplicable, couldn’t get a good explanation from McIntosh, I decided to call them myself. What a mistake!

I spoke to a guy named “Chuck”, their Customer Service representative. The whole experience was very unpleasant, and not what one would expect from a company with a reputation for excellence like McIntosh. The bottom line is that ‘Chuck’ either didn't understand my question or had his own agenda and deliberately insisted on answering a different question than what I asked (as if  he thought the problem was the overall amount of gain, as opposed to the unnecessarily limited usable range of the volume control), then he told me to changing the gain (he obviously meant the impedance), which, of course, did nothing to change the problem except move the small usable range a few degrees to the left or right (without increasing its coverage) and then (my favorite) he claimed that the problem was my 110 0hm Audeze LCD-3 headphones were to blame because (he said) “they require 1,000 times the normal amount of power”, and notwithstanding that it's exactly the same situation with my 300 ohm Sennheisers (HD 600 and HD650), and my 64 ohm Grados (RS-1e).

Toward the end of the conversation, because I was not merely accepting his 'advice' which was not only clearly wrong, but wasn’t even related to the actual issue I was asking about, he told me, in words or substance, that I "should just return the unit - that [he's] not making [me] keep it."  Very childish behavior indeed for someone who's supposed to be the Customer Service rep for one of the world's most prestigious audio brands. Perhaps he's used to people who just take his word for things, but I've been in this hobby for 50 years, all-tube analog for most of it, and I couldn't just accept his manifestly incorrect and irrelevant dogma as an answer to a question which they HAVE to have been asked 100 times.  It was clear that ‘Chuck’ had no personal knowledge of anything he was talking about and he was just reading from a script and/or repeating what someone else had told him - or at least his faulty understanding thereof. Anyway, I never even got to ask him why they chose a C7 connector instead of a full size C14 iem (there’s plenty of real estate back there), but it’s clear that, notwithstanding the great sound, McIntosh completely missed the boat on the user interface with this particular amp and, for reasons we may never know, they are refusing to take ownership of their mistake and are just deflecting or denying (although even ‘Chuck’ admitted the volume control was a ‘little goofy’ - his words, not mine).

All of this is a shame because it’s really a nice sounding amp, but for this kind of money, I expect ‘the Best’, not a volume control and an ac receptacle that wouldn’t be welcome on an $89 unit, no less a $2500 one (I could live with the C7 plug if I had to - plug it in once with an adaptor and forget about it, but you have to interact with that volume knob every day and the pot on my old Creek OBH-11 was nicer than the one on the Mc).  I’m seriously considering returning mine and going back to the drawing board before my dealer’s generous trial period runs out. I don’t want to - I really like the way it sounds which, of course, is the most important thing - but some of this stuff is just plain bizarre.

Shame on McIntosh - it appears they are no longer the audiophile company they once used to be, and, based on today’s experience, their ‘customer care’ is an abomination.

Who needs it? [/End Rant]

Truth is, I really DO like the way this unit sounds with all of my headphones - especially the Audeze LCD-3 - and I will probably keep it, wonky volume control and midwit CS rep notwithstanding.


----------



## Kimiifrit

Anyone has experience with T+A Solitaire P and TH900MK2 on MHA200? Curious to know, thanks.


----------



## Strat1117 (Dec 7, 2022)

Isn't there anybody out there who is interested in talking about this little gem of an amp, warts and all? 

Perhaps it just works great and there's nothing much to discuss?  I suppose that's possible, and I suppose that is one of the things I like best about it.  As a recovering tubeaholic, the MHA200 allows me to have a tube amp which, as far as tube amps go, is almost as much of a brick (I mean that in a good way) as a tube amp can be, without getting caught up in the minutae of which $400 rectifier works with which heretofore virtually unknown power tube (not that there is ANYTHING inherently bad about that, but I suffer from Post Tube Stress Disorder, and swore off tubes altogether about 5 years ago when I sold my VTL monoblocks and 24k gold plated Audible Illusions M3A and replaced my BAT VK-D5 (diy SE upgrade for a naim cd player and a Plinius Hautonga SS Class A biased integrated amp, so the less dithering with unfamiliar tubes (the 12at7/ecc81 and the 12 bh7 tubes are both well know to me from the VTL amps), the better.  Or maybe people around here just don't dig McIntosh, and that's ok too, but there must be someone who does and wants to talk about it.  We can't let the Woo Audio guys have all the fun, can we?

*Can we?*


----------



## TSAVJason

Strat1117 said:


> Yes and no. I’ve been a tube guy for 30+ years (having owned multiple VTL, ARC, AI and Prima Luna, and probably a couple of others I can’t think of right now, not to mention a variety of Marshall and Fender tubed guitar amps.  I’ve also had a lot of experience with the MC275 - although I haven’t owned one, my brother does.
> 
> Defend it all you like, but it is simply incorrect to label a gain control as volume, and anyone who is flummoxed by this apparently vestigial control is absolutely right to be upset about that totally unnecessary design choice, whether or not you agree with the vocabulary they use to describe their unhappiness. The following is directly from McIntosh’s website regarding the MHA200:
> 
> ...


😂😂 we all have our opinions and obviously my opinion is different than yours


----------



## TSAVJason

vo_obgyn said:


> Has anyone paired up the MHA200 with the Focal Utopia 2022 cans? Any impressions?


In 2 weeks on our YouTube channel you’ll see a detailed review of that combo if that helps you


----------



## Strat1117 (Dec 7, 2022)

TSAVJason said:


> 😂😂 we all have our opinions and obviously my opinion is different than yours


Not sure which part of that particular rant you’re referring to, but I certainly agree that we all hear differently, so if you’re referring to the part about the Mullards, I’ll  retract everything I said except that: 1. I hear them very differently than what you described and 2. Whatever floats your boat is good by me.

I’d be more interested in hearing what you think of ‘Chuck’ at McIntosh’s statement to me that the reason why the range of adjustment on the volume control is so limited is either because I need to change gain (resistance) settings and/or that “Audeze headphones require 1,000 times more power than average headphones.” I’m not making it up; that’s really what he said. Once I made it clear that I would not just listen to him unquestioningly while he read from a script, he became quite flummoxed by the entire conversation, for whatever reason.

Anyway, I’m just glad to see a little action in this thread - it’s fairly moribund. Even though you’re responding to something I wrote almost two weeks and multiple posts ago, at least it’s some discourse. At the end of the day, I think it’s a great little amp (admittedly with a couple of little foibles, most notably the usable range of that volume control), but I’d like to see more interest in it and discussion about it, so I’m purposefully putting up loud, obnoxious, controversial posts in a last ditch attempt to get the conversation going.


----------



## TSAVJason

Strat1117 said:


> Not sure which part of that particular rant you’re referring to, but I certainly agree that we all hear differently, so if you’re referring to the part about the Mullards, I’ll  retract everything I said except that: 1. I hear them very differently than what you described and 2. Whatever floats your boat is good by me.
> 
> I’d be more interested in hearing what you think of ‘Chuck’ at McIntosh’s statement to me that the reason why the range of adjustment on the volume control is so limited is either because I need to change gain (resistance) settings and/or that “Audeze headphones require 1,000 times more power than average headphones.” I’m not making it up; that’s really what he said. Once I made it clear that I would not just listen to him unquestioningly while he read from a script, he became quite flummoxed by the entire conversation, for whatever reason.
> 
> Anyway, I’m just glad to see a little action in this thread - it’s fairly moribund. Even though you’re responding to something I wrote almost two weeks and multiple posts ago, at least it’s some discourse. At the end of the day, I think it’s a great little amp (admittedly with a couple of little foibles, most notably the usable range of that volume control), but I’d like to see more interest in it and discussion about it, so I’m purposefully putting up loud, obnoxious, controversial posts in a last ditch attempt to get the conversation going.


Chuck is awesome! However the headphone space is not his thing. He never reads from a script. He does read tech reports to assist customers in issues or connectivity but that’s it. FYI, all my information comes from McIntosh’s CEO as we are long time friends and electronic engineers


----------



## TSAVJason

RobWilde said:


> Hi everyone. Time question.
> 
> I've been listening to my MHA200, love it. Currently got the stock tubes in, but when i bought it I got some Mullards and some Electro Harmonix...  Wondering whether I keep going with stock or try tube rolling. I'm sure I read someone in here say it takes 200 hours for it to really sing, and I'm not there with the stock yet, and I'm not unhappy with the stock I just... wonder. Any advice please?


200 hours is a tad extreme. It shouldn’t require more than 20-30 hours. You may find what others have found, that the MHA200 doesn’t really lend itself to tube rolling much. At least I haven’t found any tubes that improve on the OE sound


----------



## Strat1117

TSAVJason said:


> Chuck is awesome! However the headphone space is not his thing. He never reads from a script. He does read tech reports to assist customers in issues or connectivity but that’s it. FYI, all my information comes from McIntosh’s CEO as we are long time friends and electronic engineers


My conversation with him started out nicely enough, and I'm sure he's a very nice guy, but what I mean by "reading from a script" is that he told me he was quoting what the designer told him, and he couldn't or wouldn't get that my question had to do with the range of adjustment, as opposed to the overall level of volume that I was getting.  He got upset that I wouldn't just accept what he said as having answered my question when clearly it hadn't (and the thing about Audeze headphones requiring 1,000 times the normal amount of power was just bizarre).  Clearly, the headphone space is NOT his thing and he was out of his depth.  I would have been much happier if he just put me through to someone who knew the product and the ancillaries with which it is likely to be used.


----------



## TSAVJason

Strat1117 said:


> Not sure which part of that particular rant you’re referring to, but I certainly agree that we all hear differently, so if you’re referring to the part about the Mullards, I’ll  retract everything I said except that: 1. I hear them very differently than what you described and 2. Whatever floats your boat is good by me.
> 
> I’d be more interested in hearing what you think of ‘Chuck’ at McIntosh’s statement to me that the reason why the range of adjustment on the volume control is so limited is either because I need to change gain (resistance) settings and/or that “Audeze headphones require 1,000 times more power than average headphones.” I’m not making it up; that’s really what he said. Once I made it clear that I would not just listen to him unquestioningly while he read from a script, he became quite flummoxed by the entire conversation, for whatever reason.
> 
> Anyway, I’m just glad to see a little action in this thread - it’s fairly moribund. Even though you’re responding to something I wrote almost two weeks and multiple posts ago, at least it’s some discourse. At the end of the day, I think it’s a great little amp (admittedly with a couple of little foibles, most notably the usable range of that volume control), but I’d like to see more interest in it and discussion about it, so I’m purposefully putting up loud, obnoxious, controversial posts in a last ditch attempt to get the conversation going.


I respond when the system gives me notice. Until today I haven’t received a notice from any Headfi post in over a month until today


----------



## TSAVJason

Strat1117 said:


> My conversation with him started out nicely enough, and I'm sure he's a very nice guy, but what I mean by "reading from a script" is that he told me he was quoting what the designer told him, and he couldn't or wouldn't get that my question had to do with the range of adjustment, as opposed to the overall level of volume that I was getting.  He got upset that I wouldn't just accept what he said as having answered my question when clearly it hadn't (and the thing about Audeze headphones requiring 1,000 times the normal amount of power was just bizarre).  Clearly, the headphone space is NOT his thing and he was out of his depth.  I would have been much happier if he just put me through to someone who knew the product and the ancillaries with which it is likely to be used.


He would have put you though to me if he referred it out for further information. I know more about the amp than most of the McIntosh staff. Being the site isn’t consistent just contact me @ The Source AV. I’m happy to share tricks and information on the MHA200


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## Strat1117

TSAVJason said:


> I respond when the system gives me notice. Until today I haven’t received a notice from any Headfi post in over a month until today


No worries.  I see you're catching up on responding to older posts - no idea why you wouldn't have gotten the notifications. Like I said before, I'm just glad you're here to help keep the conversation going.


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## Revelation Sound

I am thinking about getting the Toppings AD90D instead of the McIntosh to save money to use my Focal Clear MGs. Tell me I am making a mistake. LOL

The purpose of using a headphone amp is to hook it up to my preamp in my stereo. I use headphones when I can't play my stereo late at night when my kids are sleeping or if someone is watching TV in the other room. That is the only time I will use it. Is the MHA200 worth it for a situation like this?


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## Strat1117 (Dec 7, 2022)

Revelation Sound said:


> I am thinking about getting the Toppings AD90D instead of the McIntosh to save money to use my Focal Clear MGs. Tell me I am making a mistake. LOL
> 
> The purpose of using a headphone amp is to hook it up to my preamp in my stereo. I use headphones when I can't play my stereo late at night when my kids are sleeping or if someone is watching TV in the other room. That is the only time I will use it. Is the MHA200 worth it for a situation like this?


Who could answer that question other than you? I use the McIntosh to power my Audeze LCD-3 as a part of a full blown, mid-five figure system, and I only use headphones when I feel like it or when there are others around I don’t want to bother too much (my headphones are open backs, after all).  In my opinion, the McIntosh is worth 10x the price of the Topping. But that’s me. I’d also rather see you buy a 10 year old used Burson HA-160 for $350 over a brand new Topping. My personal opinion. Just like it is my opinion that the Topping is not in the same league as the McIntosh. The point is that only _you_ can decide whether the McIntosh, which _*I*_ believe sounds awesome and is worth every penny, is worth it for you. 

NB:  I should also add that it is _only_ worth it if you can afford it. I would _*never*_ suggest using the rent money, or borrowing from your 401k or taking money out of the kids’ college fund to buy stereo equipment. But, if you can afford it, get what you like. 

Good luck, and Enjoy!

YMMV, just my $.03, etc., _ad nauseum_.


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## TSAVJason

Revelation Sound said:


> I am thinking about getting the Toppings AD90D instead of the McIntosh to save money to use my Focal Clear MGs. Tell me I am making a mistake. LOL
> 
> The purpose of using a headphone amp is to hook it up to my preamp in my stereo. I use headphones when I can't play my stereo late at night when my kids are sleeping or if someone is watching TV in the other room. That is the only time I will use it. Is the MHA200 worth it for a situation like this?


Let me know how that goes. I’ve heard some things about your (cost savings) choice of brands that might set off a red flag but I have no experience directly with that brand. I would enjoy reading about your experience with it.


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## Newsee

Kimiifrit said:


> Anyone has experience with T+A Solitaire P and TH900MK2 on MHA200? Curious to know, thanks.


T+A Solitaire P sounds gorgeous on MHA200.


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## Strat1117 (Dec 8, 2022)

Newsee said:


> T+A Solitaire P sounds gorgeous on MHA200.


I’m delighted that you are happy with your setup, and I agree that the MHA200 is certainly a great amp - I’d like to see it get more love than it does. We’d love to hear more specifics about what you liked (or didn’t) about the combo - was it the speed, the imaging, the tonal saturation, the deep bass, the sparkling highs, the palpable midrange? Not asking for a full blown review, just something more to go on to help us in our own quests for audio Nirvana. After all, we each have our own definition of ‘gorgeous’.
Thanks!

YMMV, just my $.03, etc., _ad nauseum_.


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## Newsee (Dec 9, 2022)

Strat1117 said:


> I’d like to see it get more love than it does.


It does get lots of love. 
...
Anyways, I still like it.

Edited.


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## Strat1117 (Dec 9, 2022)

Newsee said:


> It does get lots of love. Just read through the 64 pages, if you have not done it yet. But c'mon, it is more than one and a half year old product now, and there are only a few amps on head-fi that has frequent coverage after a year. Normally it needs 3-4 enthusiasts who always get some new adpects to discuss. It is very nice that you want to animate, but bring up a long discussed and buried painpoint is not the best way to make friends here.
> 
> Btw, when we are at volume control: you can vote with your money: keep it, or send it back. I have done my vote a year ago.
> I think McIntosh would have looked more professional handling this issue by
> ...


Thanks for the advice on how to behave on an audio forum, Mr. >600 posts and <600 likes, but I’m not trying to ‘make friends’, I’m trying to resurrect a mostly and unnecessarily dead thread. Think Dr. Frankenstein, not Mr Rogers.

The fact is that the MHA200 is not old, it’s still current, and it does have some foibles that should be addressed by Mc but weren’t - IMHO, and that of many of the professional reviews I’ve read, they could have done the unity gain thing and still provided a normal linear volume control. So it’s a continuing and legitimate beef. No one yet has explained the ‘why’ and, I think you and I agree, ‘that’s the way it is’ just isn’t a satisfactory explanation. As for voting with my feet, my dealer has already sent me a return label, but, upon reflection, I’ve decided to keep the unit because I don’t see anything out there I think I’d prefer, warts and all. Sorry if that offends you or you think I’m having fun wrong. I’ll ask your permission next time I make an audio decision.

Truth is, I’m not here to fight with you. I may be new to this thread, but I am neither new to the site nor to the audio hobby. Yes, I read the first 64 pages, was bored to tears, and wanted to know where the other 250 pages went.  @TSAVJason seems to be the only one with anything interesting to say. More’s the pity - he’s a GREAT guy, but he’s a dealer fielding mostly toob noob questions.  Indeed, it seems like this amp attracts a lot of inexperienced audiophiles and that DOES bother me, because this thing is the real deal and sounds absolutely fantastic with everything I’ve thrown at it so far - dynamic, engaging, tonally saturated without being thick or slow, fantastic separation (the one area where I think NOS 12at7 tubes would be an improvement over stock), the list goes on. I’ve been pining after my brother’s MC275 for years, and now I’ve got a drop-dead gorgeous mini version for my cans.  I could do without the green leds under the tubes, but I guess that’s their shtick now. 

Anyway, my post was not intended to anger you and, upon rereading it, I have no idea what your problem with it is. it was intended only to encourage you to say more than just (in words or substance) ‘the combo was good, I liked it’. Sorry if I didn’t say it in a way that pleased Your Honor, but I’m 63 and I’ve been in the hobby for 50 years, 35+ all tube analog. I know what I’m talking about, I say what’s on my mind and I say it how I want, but I try never to cross the line, as I was careful not to do with the post I addressed to you. Sorry if you felt slighted in some way because I politely suggested that your post provided zero useful information, but the fact is that it didn’t. If you want to pick a fight with me, go for it. I’m game. But better you should rethink your post and understand that my intentions were pure, regardless of whether or not you approve of my sentiment. I’m more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt since English is apparently not your native tongue and assume that my intent got crossed in translation. Are you capable of that?  If not, bring it on. I’ve been a New York City courtroom lawyer for 38 years - I think I can handle whatever it is you think you’ve got. The ball, my friend, is in your court. Take your best shot.

YMMV, just my $.03, etc., _ad nauseum_.


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## Strat1117 (Dec 9, 2022)

ABQ2 said:


> I replaced the 12AT7's with Mallard's.


I have some NOS CV4024’s flying in today, but I think @TSAVJason makes a good point when he says this is not really a tube rollers’ amp - and, as a recovering tubeaholic, that’s probably one of the things that attracted me to it.  As tube amps go, it’s about as much of a brick as you can get (and I mean that as a positive; just set it up and enjoy it). I’m trying the military Mullards because I remember liking them in my VTL mono amps, but I have no intention of rolling much beyond that.

YMMV, just my $.03, etc., _ad nauseum_.


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## Newsee

I am sorry. As mentioned, I wrote too much.


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## Strat1117

Newsee said:


> I am sorry. As mentioned, I wrote too much.


I’d always prefer to be on one another’s good side. As far as I’m concerned, you and I are fine. 

Thank you. 

NSC


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## Strat1117 (Dec 11, 2022)

UPS seems to have mislaid my Mullard CV4024’s, but this particular amp, as pointed out by @TSAVJason, doesn’t necessarily need tube rolling, so not the end of the world if they don’t come - still sounds great stock. I think that’s a Mcintosh trait in general.

I do have a question - I read earlier in this thread how to defeat the automatic off feature, but I didn’t see anything about turning off the green led’s under the tubes. Can it be done?  I don’t expect it to make any sonic difference, but I would prefer to see the natural orange tube glow in the dark, or at least have the choice, if it’s available. Thanks.


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## Revelation Sound

When using the headphone amp, do you leave the cage on or offf?


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## Strat1117

Revelation Sound said:


> When using the headphone amp, do you leave the cage on or offf?


Off, except when my <18 month old granddaughter is around.


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## ABQ2

ABQ2 said:


> I have the original Utopias and the MHA200.  To die for.


I'm a turntable guy.  I can't imagine the sound being any better than this.  I'm driving the Utopia/MHA200 with the Marantz TT15S1/Audio Technica ART9XA and McIntosh MP100 preamp.


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## Newsee

Revelation Sound said:


> When using the headphone amp, do you leave the cage on or offf?


On. It is optically nicer when off, but the cage might filter out some electromagnetic disturbances (nearby mobile phone, wifi router, PC). Not from experience, just based on theory. 
It also helps to prevent burning accidents.


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## Revelation Sound

I am hopeful I will be purchasing mine in the new year.


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## TSAVJason

Our YouTube video rolls out on Sunday morning for those of you looking to hear info on the MHA200 using the Focal Utopia OG v Focal Utopia 2022 edition ….. it hits at 8am pacific time …. Marcello does a great job but I’ll say I’m not 100% in agreement on the OG.


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## MRHiFiReviews (Dec 25, 2022)

TSAVJason said:


> Our YouTube video rolls out on Sunday morning for those of you looking to hear info on the MHA200 using the Focal Utopia OG v Focal Utopia 2022 edition ….. it hits at 8am pacific time …. Marcello does a great job but I’ll say I’m not 100% in agreement on The OG


Here are my thoughts on the Utopia 2022 with some comparisons to the Original Utopia!! We hope you enjoy.

Post in thread 'Focal Utopia 2022
 Review, Measurements'
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-utopia-2022-review-measurements.964903/post-17314618


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## YungOmbat

warrenpchi said:


> Its alive! 😃  But first, dinner (actually lunch for me).


yooo thats a sick setup. where did u get that glass stand


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## warrenpchi

YungOmbat said:


> yooo thats a sick setup. where did u get that glass stand



Thanks!  I think I got them on Amazon.  They're actually just monitor risers/stands, and they're made/sold by a bunch of companies, so you'll have a wide range of options to choose from.


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## em1ke

One of my 12BH7A make some weird noise, so now I'm looking for a new pair. I'm prefer full body sound, not the thin and overly detailed one. Any suggestions? 
I'm waiting for GE Gray Plates Horse Shoes Getter Matched tubes from Italy. I'm not sure what to expect from these two. But I'm pretty open minded about all suggestions.


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## Strat1117 (Jan 1, 2023)

em1ke said:


> One of my 12BH7A make some weird noise, so now I'm looking for a new pair. I'm prefer full body sound, not the thin and overly detailed one. Any suggestions?
> I'm waiting for GE Gray Plates Horse Shoes Getter Matched tubes from Italy. I'm not sure what to expect from these two. But I'm pretty open minded about all suggestions.


I’ve got NOS mid-1970’s Zenith branded GE 12bh7A’s in mine, along with Mullard 6201’s in the 12at7 slots, and they sound full and lovely with both my Audeze LCD-3 and my modified Sennheiser HD600, but tube changes are very personal and system dependent - it’s very hard to predict how your particular pair will work for you in your system, you’ll need to determine it empirically. For example, I tried a pair of the vaunted Sylvania Gold Label black plate 12bh7 in my MHA200, and I was totally dissatisfied with them, although I thought they were wonderful as a driver tube in a VTL mono power amp. Not every ge tube will sound like every other ge tube, depending upon year of production and a million other variables. That’s why they call it ‘tube rolling’ and, trust me, it’s like opening a can of worms in a rabbit hole (a worm hole?).  If you’re not prepared to try a few different things until you hit on the right combo for you, you’d be better off sticking with the oem Mc branded tubes (probably screened JJ’s), which sound just great, even if they’re not quite as ‘charming’ as NOS.



I apologize for not being able to give you the answer you wanted, but that is the nature of tube rolling. It has potential to be very rewarding, but it can also be just as frustrating. That’s one of the reasons I gave up on tubes in my main system after 30+ years of nothing but. The MHA200 is this old recovering tubeaholic’s way of dipping his toe back in tube world without (hopefully) going overboard.

Good luck, and enjoy!  Remember, it’s just audio - it’s supposed to be fun.

IMHO, YMMV, just my $.03, etc., _ad nauseum._


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## Strat1117




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## Revelation Sound

I will have the money for this amp in 2 months.  It should be interesting to finally hear this amp in person. It needs to be substantially better than my NAD preamp headphone output.


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## Strat1117

Revelation Sound said:


> I will have the money for this amp in 2 months.  It should be interesting to finally hear this amp in person. It needs to be substantially better than my NAD preamp headphone output.


If you don’t hear it as better, then don’t waste your money. Simple. But I’m betting you will. 

Enjoy, and happy new year.


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## Strat1117

Is there a way to turn off the green leds under the tubes? I’d prefer the natural orange tube glow. I know there’s a procedure for defeating the auto off, but that’s all I found when searching for the answer to this question. 

Thanks!


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