# FiiO E12 Review



## bowei006

*FiiO E12 Mont Blanc *  

  
  
*Introduction*:
 FiiO is one of the most popular companies in the world of headphone audio. Their products come with unmatched performance for the price. They want to deliver great products that fans will love by listening to them on Head-Fi and other forums and even letting the fans vote on versions. The FiiO Mont Blanc is FiiO’s new flagship portable amplifier. It boasts an amazing amount of power while still being affordable. I would like to thank FiiO for the review sample. Now let’s see if the E12 lives up to the FiiO name.
  
 Read more here:
 http://www.pandatechreview.com/fiio-e12-review/
  

  
*Videos:*
 Unboxing Video

  
*Specs:*
FiiO page
 Weight: 159g
 Input and output: 3.5mm
 Impendence support: 16 Ohm to 300Ohm
 Battery Capacity: 9.7 Wh (880 mAh/11.1V)
 Output Power: >880 mW @ 32 ohms
 THD: <0.005%

*Unit Quality:*
 FiiO is quite famous for their great build quality in their black ‘stealthy’ looking designs. The E12 of course is no exception. The corners all come together seamlessly and it is not easily scratched. I wouldn’t recommend doing a drop test but the feeling of the E12 is just beautiful.
  

*Accessories:*
 The E12 like FiiO’s other units comes with most accessories a starter would want. This includes a 3.5mm interconnect cable, a USB charge cable, User Manual, Warranty Card, Silica Gel packet, cloth carrying case, plastic dome standoffs, Binding bands, and the E12 itself. The binding bands the E12 comes with is quite large and will probably not work with most smartphones or Apple devices. It was meant for another FiiO device. I alerted FiiO of this and they said they will include normal binding bands along with the wide ones. I do not know if this is permanent or not. Some users have noted that their E12 cloth bag smells like gasoline. It seems to be the ones from Micca Store. Oil based products may have been near the E12 shipment.
  
 FiiO also has a policy where accessories are free, which is quite nice of them. The only catch is that you must pay for the shipping which is $5. But all is well if you need more rubber domes, or interconnect cable. This program is up to FiiO and can end at any time. But as of this writing, it is in place.
  

  
  
*Usability:*
 The Mont Blanc feels well in a user’s hands and has a weight of authority as well. Like past FiiO’s, you can bind it to your PMP or just use it as a travel amp. It isn’t too large, but it isn’t exactly small either. I have put the Mont Blanc through some slightly hairy situations and it has still come through unscathed. It handles like most amps basically.
  
 But this is the section with the most problems of the E12 sadly. The E17 and E07K’s aux in matched well with the LOD and iPod’s as it allowed for the L9 to be used and to be ergonomic. The E12 does not have this. You can face the E12 both ways and try the L9 with the E12 but it still won’t work. The L11 is an option but there aren’t exactly any cheap and readily available very short interconnect cables.  If there was one, then this issue would be fixed. But the majority of those short cables are expensive. And most users seem to just use L3 and L9.
 For more info on why this design is quirky, click here.
 The moving parts of the E12 have a few issues. They are mainly nit-picks at getting perfection but still noteworthy to a review reader.  The sub switches of Crossfeed and Gain do feel a little sticky. The Alpen and Andes both had this. They just don’t feel high quality when you switch them. Using a pen to change the options can also get color on the switches. The bass boost switch on the other side is a bit loose. This leads to bass boost switching to be turned on when the device strap moves over it. It is a bit of a weird design in my opinion. Having switches that require a pin and then having a somewhat loose bass boost switch. The last thing is the volume pot. I’ve noticed that it will get squeaky and feel like it is rubbing against the metal on the bottom. I have to sometimes put force on pulling the pot up a bit to stop it from happening. This thing is often a problem with volume pots, but it should still be noted.
  
 It has been also mentioned before, but the initial binding band did not work with iPod’s or other 1 cm thick or less pmp’s.

*Bass Boost:*
 The bass boost of the E12 v1 mainly applies to the sub bass. I believe FiiO puts the number at 4-5dB increase in sub bass at around 50Hz. The E12 is a flagship amp and it acts like it. Bass Boost is put down in China as being non-purist and so here we have a new sub bass bass boost. Which is an opposite turn from the full on bass boosting usually present in FiiO devices. I would say the quality of it is very nice and adds a nice sub oomph to songs.
 FiiO listened to fans who wanted a more pronounced bass boost and so from now on, a V2 model with a different bass boost will be coming out. This will also boost the mid bass but it won’t boost it to crazy amounts.
  
*CrossFeed:*
Leckerton has a great post on what Crossfeed is. Click the Blue hyperlink for it.
  
 Well the E12 comes with crossfeed. It does what the info page says it does.
 It reduces the surrounding instruments while giving you a more up front symmetrical vocal.
 The pronunciation of the lows is also effected by crossfeed. They are less powerful.
  
*FiiO E12 changes:*
 FiiO has since said that they will include the standard band to the E12 package along with the new bands. I do not know if they will change this later on to just one set of bands.
 The bass boost will also be changed to a more pronounced one.
 There have been no info on how to tell the units apart(without listening) yet. But as of February, the units on the market should be V1 sub bass boost. My review was done with V1 bass boost.

*Notice:*
 You may have noted that I am listing a lot of nit-pick cons and quirks of the device and sparse sentences on good stuff. Well the thing is, the E12 is just a normal device. It being a normal flat working amp already makes up the list of positives. There really much to note on the E12 and its build and other things for pros as it is just a nice device already.

*IEM noise:*
 There is some noise with IEM's. It shouldn't be a lot for most units
  
*Sensitivity of Volume Pot:*
 While on the go, I have tried many times to see if the volume pot can be turned. With just one finger, the volume pot was very hard to turn. It may have been on purpose or just a by product of it being a small Alps potentiometer. Also, due to the way the volume pot is by design, it is much harder to turn at the 'beginning' but it loosens up as you go higher in volume. This also works in the interest of IEM users.
  

  
  
*Testing:*
 Testing was done with IEMs such as the Heir Audio 4ai, 3ai, Tzar 350, Tzar 90, Dunu DN19, Vsonic GR07 Mk2, AKG Q701, Ultrasone HFI 580, and Sony MH1C’s.
 It was tested with a Dual Wolfson WM8741 DAC lining out to the E12 with a RCA to 3.5mm cable.
*Burn in:*
 I personally enjoyed the device more after an hour or two. But these findings have no backing data.
 Power:
 >880mW @ 32 ohms
  
  
  
  
*Sound Section:*
 The FiiO E12 is a departure from how the Alpen and Andes sounds. While the former two have a warm and sweet sound that is more bass prone, the E12 goes for a more clearer sound. I would say that it is more ‘audiophile’ and more neutral as compared to the Andes and Alpen.
  
*FiiO E12 and Audio-gd NFB 12.1*
 The vocals of the E12 are more laid back but more full than the Audio-gd’s. They are very smooth and the mid instruments are also much more pronounced. The background mid instruments come in a bit stronger than the audio-gd. The separation of the entire spectrum is also closer together than other various amps such as the O2 and MRB. The separation is still of course better than many amps, but it is noticeably smaller on the Mont Blanc. The Mont Blanc also has a deeper more pronounced bass hit. It is a bit looser but spread out more.
 The FiiO E12 sounds much cleaner than other FiiO amps. Much more clear in the vocals and instruments. The bass has also been done well where it doesn’t give the user a more heavier hit. The E12 of course still retains the general quality of FiiO’s other products but it has upped the notch.

  
*FiiO E12 and FiiO E11*
 The highs of the FiiO E11 are more harsh than the E12. They don’t hold as well. The separation of the E11 is also considerably less than the E12. Mid instruments and vocals are more congested and scrunched up. The vocals of the E11 are more forward than the mids, but the mids of the E11 are not very smooth. The lows of the E12 are also much tighter than the looser ones of the E11.
 The E11 boasts of a more fun sound with a nice bass response to go with the tracks. However its vocals and highs ultimately fail the E11 in being up to par with the E12. But of course, the E12 isn’t a replacement for the E11. The E12 is the flagship series.

  
*FiiO E12 with Custom Project-H (Objective 2 w/ Burr Brown op amp and Cirrus Logic flagship DAC)*
 With the DAC being the CS4398, the FiiO E12 does a good job up against the O2. The O2's vocals are more forward and louder than the E12's. The depth on the E12's vocals are also much better. The seperation and soundstage of the mids(instruments) is also superior on the O2. The O2 is just a bit sweeter than the E12. The E12, I would say is a bit colder than the O2. Of course, colder does not equal more neutral. The O2 would be the more neutral amp, but the O2 accentuates more parts of the song than the E12 does. Now you are thinking, how can the O2 be more neutral if it accentuates more things? Well neutrality is a word that goes into the best reproduction of music and how neutral will theoretically reproduce the music better. And the O2 does reproduce it better than the E12. The overal transparency on the O2 is also better than the E12. However, the units are still nice and closely matched. I'm quite surprised how close they are. To some, the distance between the two may not warrant one or the other, and to some, the distance is huge(purists). But whatever it is, I think that the E12 does a very good job against the O2. It's only that while on the go, I personally prefer a more warmer sound than what the E12 offer.
  
  
*General Impression Video:*

  
  
  
 Conclusion:
 I think that some of life's challenges are reviewing products. A bigger challenge would be to review FiiO products. It is hard to really criticize their products when their price is so good for what is offered. The FiiO E12 Mont Blanc is a realization of FiiO enginuity yet again. They managed to put out a product at such a low price with good hardware and sound. The E12 is not going to wow people with high end units but for the price, it is a great unit.
  
 Price:$120
  
  
  
 More pics of FiiO E12:
  


Spoiler: More%20Pics%3A


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## bowei006

FiiO devices are some of the most popular things on Head-Fi. I have been asked many repeat questions so I thought to make a Q and A section for them. All questions will be updated with updated answers if a user brings up something that isn't in them.
   
*I have Headphones X, Y, Z. Do you think the Mont Blanc will help it?*
   


Spoiler: Answer%3A



This is a very common question. My analogy for you would be. Say you are going to go ski-ing. You know nearly nothing about it. I then ask you if you think narrower ski's or shorter ski's or wider one's fit you. Or would a snowboard do better. And if so, what style of them would you choose. What brand and features?
   
  You would probably think one thing. You don't know and that you would need to test it out.
   
  This is the same thing. Yes, they will give you an "improvement" but that improvement can not be heard by some without practice and some may not think it is worth it. As we get more and more expensive equipment, a few things remains. Happiness and the ability to buy it. People up in the spectrum buy $10,000 units because it enahnces their headphones they love and what not. It isn't day and night type of differences but to them it is worth it and their experience says so.
   
  Answering this question is hard because this is a niche hobby. There are many stores in the U.S with headphones and some headphone amps but they are so spread out. Testing is hard if not impossible for many.
   
  So I can't answer that. Even if you were to ask if your (hard to drive headphone) were to benefit from it I can not truly know. Some may like it quiet and or may not really care for the difference.
   
  Sadly, the only way to find out is to read up and take a swing/leap of faith if you truly want to find out.
   
  I personally use an amp even with $50 headphones because I like the smoother sound but to others, it isn't worth it. 


   
*What is a DAC and amp?*
   


Spoiler: Answer%3A











   
*What is the difference between lossy and lossless? Does it matter?*
   


Spoiler: Answer%3A










 *What is a LOD and do I need one? If so, which devices can use one?*
   


Spoiler: Answer%3A










   
*Digital Coaxil or USB or optical? What should I use and why? Does it matter?*
   


Spoiler: Answer%3A










   
*What does it mean when a headphone "gains" from amping or is hard to drive?*


Spoiler: Answer%3A







   


   
 *How do I switch Crossfeed on or change the gain?:*
   


Spoiler: Answer%3A



With the FiiO logo facing you upright, the crossfeed and gain is to the right of the unit. To change it, you need to use a pen.


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## Apo0th3karY

Great review. Looking forward to hearing one myself. Would prefer v1 bass boost though, it's much more unique and I think will be better appreciated for a wider range of people.


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## bowei006

Quote: 





apo0th3kary said:


> Great review. Looking forward to hearing one myself. Would prefer v1 bass boost though, it's much more unique and I think will be better appreciated for a wider range of people.


 
  Thanks for the kind words. 
   
  Well FiiO's point was made. You don't need to turn bass boost on. Just leave it off and its the E12


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## Bill-P

This may be just my opinions, but once you replace the stock op amp of the O2, it's no longer "transparent", or at least comparable to a stock O2.
   
  So in that sense, I don't think what you're hearing from the O2 is "neutral" anymore.


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## bowei006

bill-p said:


> This may be just my opinions, but once you replace the stock op amp of the O2, it's no longer "transparent", or at least comparable to a stock O2.
> 
> So in that sense, I don't think what you're hearing from the O2 is "neutral" anymore.


 there is no stock op amp for the o2. There is the one jds labs uses and many recommended ones.

A warmer amp can be more neutral than a colder one. Cold and non accentuation doesnt exactly equal neutral. Its mentioned in the review.


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## Chris J

Hey,
Nice review thread!
Keep it up!
thx, C J


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## Bill-P

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> there is no stock op amp for the o2. There is the one jds labs uses and many recommended ones.
> 
> A warmer amp can be more neutral than a colder one. Cold and non accentuation doesnt exactly equal neutral. Its mentioned in the review.


 
   
  I agree a warmer amp can be more neutral depending on the listener.
   
  However, what I'd like to point out is that the O2 you are testing is not the same as the O2 that many others have, so the comparison is a bit unfair.
   
  Also to say, the creator of the O2 has measured a lot of op amps to put into the O2 before concluding that the one JDS Labs and many other mass-producers use is "good enough". So he already "implied" a stock op amp with his measurements.
   
  I'm not sure which Burr-Brown chip was used in the O2 you mentioned, but of the many that the creator of O2 measured, some were measured to produce more noise than the stock op amp that JDS Labs uses. For all intents and purposes, when you have noise, then it's objectively no longer neutral.


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## bowei006

Quote: 





bill-p said:


> I agree a warmer amp can be more neutral depending on the listener.
> 
> However, what I'd like to point out is that the O2 you are testing is not the same as the O2 that many others have, so the comparison is a bit unfair.
> 
> ...


 
  It is mentioned that my unit is custom. 
   
  It is not unfair. I'm not testing E12 with Objective 2. I'm testing E12 with P-H which is equipped with an Objective 2.
   
  A big portion of O2 users use different op amps or roll them.
   
  There may be a BOM for a recommended and cost effective op amp. But that doesn't mean anything.
   
  What noise? Noise is created when there is something faulty or an uncompatable headphone(doesn't match impedances). Having noise doesn't mean it is not neutral.
   
  Op amps can't drastically change the entirety of the unit. 
   
  Anyway, it is mentioned that this is a custom unit with slightly different configs. Of which many use. Different manu's apart from JDS equip different op amps into them. And many self builders don't use the stock BOM op amp anyway.
   
  An O2 is a DIY type of thing with customizability, and thus it should be expected that there is some degree of difference.


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## Bill-P

I'm not sure if I can post a link to his blog here, but you can look up "O2 Op Amp Measurements" on Google to find more information about this. The creator of O2 went through great lengths to "prove" why the BOM included the "default op amp" (that's the way he put it).
   
  If you're testing the E12 against P-H, then I think you should note that in the thread you linked to, because you wrote this:
   
"Added the E12 vs O2 section to my review"
   
  Sorry for nitpicking, but I think there are already a lot of information thrown around, so a bit of clarity here and there is good if you want to help other people compare gears.


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## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> It is mentioned that my unit is custom.
> 
> It is not unfair. I'm not testing E12 with Objective 2. I'm testing E12 with P-H which is equipped with an Objective 2.
> 
> ...





Very sorry but........NWAV does not condone Op Amp rolling in the O2

1. there are two different (and very important!) noise specs listed in Virtually all Op Amp spec sheets. This is one of many reasons why audio Op Amps must be chosen with care.

2 . The discrete resistors used in every Op Amp circuit also create noise. The values of these resistors must be chosen with care to ensure the designer is adding more noise to the circuit.

3. This has nothing to do with matching the output impedance of the headphone amp to the headphone.

4. there are many reasons why Op Amp rolling can change to sound of the O2. Does the replacement Op Amp oscillate? Add more noise? more distortion? Slew rate too slow? Too much DC offset?

5. there's more ....... but you get the idea.....


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## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Very sorry but........NWAV does not condone Op Amp rolling in the O2
> 
> 1. there are two different (and very important!) noise specs listed in Virtually all Op Amp spec sheets. This is one of many reasons why audio Op Amps must be chosen with care.
> 
> ...


 
  I know what he was talking about.
   
  When did noise get brought into this? There is low end distortion at high gain, but that is it.
   
  I've read the articles but there are a list of recommended op amps. He may not like it, but he knows its going to happen.
   
  Either way, this is a custom unit using a amp that is a DIY project anyway.


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## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> I know what he was talking about.
> 
> When did noise get brought into this? There is low end distortion at high gain, but that is it.
> 
> ...




Trying not to start a war here, but you and Bill P started talking about noise in a public forum and I joined in!
Basically Nw guy said there is no point in "upgrading" the Op Amp in the O2 and some potential for making things worse! Anyway, you have clearly stated your O2 is not stock so I'll drop it.


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## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Trying not to start a war here, but you and Bill P started talking about noise in a public forum and I joined in!
> Basically Nw guy said there is no point in "upgrading" the Op Amp in the O2 and some potential for making things worse! Anyway, you have clearly stated your O2 is not stock so I'll drop it.


 
  He was talking about noise. I didn't really make much of a mention of it.


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## Chris J

​


bowei006 said:


> He was talking about noise. I didn't really make much of a mention of it.




NJM2068 is the Op Amp the designer likes and recommends. This is the Op Amp the designers measurements are based on.

Anyway, if you insist on getting defensive, fine.
I don't need the aggravation.
Technically you don't really understand what you are talking about WRT Op Amp rolling noise.
I'm out.


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## bowei006

chris j said:


> NJM2068 is the Op Amp the designer likes and recommends. This is the Op Amp the designers measurements are based on.
> 
> 
> Anyway, if you insist on getting defensive, fine.
> ...



Sorry. I wasn't being defensive. I was just making a point that I didnt start talking about noise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






I wasn't really trying for any aggravation or anything. Sorry if it seemed that way. I just read posts and answer them really.


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## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> Sorry. I wasn't being defensive. I was just making a point that I didnt start talking about noise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




After my, um, "cooldown time", I think I am the one who owes you an apology. 
For my part, I do enjoy this thread!
BTW, the bear video clips cracks me up!


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## bowei006

Thanks for the compliments. A bear family gif is always welcome by me.


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## gimbertt

"To my ears" the E12 is far superior to the O2. The E12 gives my ATH-AD900 and Alessandro MS-1i bass punch, vocal clarity while keeping the detail. It will be part of my setup for listening to full size headphones.
   
  This will most probably get me in trouble but I have never come to grips with the O2 because, to me, it is thin, I get sibilance and the vocals disappear. There is no bass. If this is what a neutral reference amplifier that measures objectively well sounds like then I have subjectively decided that I like color and some distortion. It is a bit better with the AD797 op amp and I am interested in trying the 2134 to see if that makes it listenable to me.
   
  I know I will get flamed for this blasphemy but but I have decided that my choice of equipment that becomes my preferred option to listen to my choice of music is, for me, a subjective choice. I like what I like!


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## bowei006

As long as you don't flame. Your opinion and anyone else's is always valid dear sir. Dot be afraid to share it even if it goes against the gradient.


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## Chris J

gimbertt said:


> "To my ears" the E12 is far superior to the O2. The E12 gives my ATH-AD900 and Alessandro MS-1i bass punch, vocal clarity while keeping the detail. It will be part of my setup for listening to full size headphones.
> 
> This will most probably get me in trouble but I have never come to grips with the O2 because, to me, it is thin, I get sibilance and the vocals disappear. There is no bass. If this is what a neutral reference amplifier that measures objectively well sounds like then I have subjectively decided that I like color and some distortion. It is a bit better with the AD797 op amp and I am interested in trying the 2134 to see if that makes it listenable to me.
> 
> I know I will get flamed for this blasphemy but but I have decided that my choice of equipment that becomes my preferred option to listen to my choice of music is, for me, a subjective choice. I like what I like!




You're not the only person who doesn't like the O2!
I have never heard one so cannot comment on it's sound.

BTW, I have a Matrix M Stage. I have rolled in a few op Amps, the different is extremely slight. Some Op Amps make no difference. Some Op Amps may only be used at a high gain setting. But whatever Op Amp I rolled in, it still sounded like the Matrix M Stage! Just sayin' don't expect a change in sound! LOL


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## gimbertt

Quote: 





chris j said:


> You're not the only person who doesn't like the O2!
> I have never heard one so cannot comment on it's sound.
> 
> BTW, I have a Matrix M Stage. I have rolled in a few op Amps, the different is extremely slight. Some Op Amps make no difference. Some Op Amps may only be used at a high gain setting. But whatever Op Amp I rolled it, it still sounded like the Matrix M Stage! Just sayin' don't expect a change in sound! LOL


 

 Isn't the M Stage the amp that the O2 designer doesn't like? Just as long as you like it.


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## Chris J

Quote: 





gimbertt said:


> Isn't the M Stage the amp that the O2 designer doesn't like? Just as long as you like it.


 
   
  I don't know!
  There seems to be quite few amps that he has taken a dislike to!
  There was one guy who owned a Matrix M Stage and an O2.  He also has AKG K70x 'phones and sold the O2 as he preferred the Matrix with the K70x.
  Shhhh!
  Don't tell the O2 fanboys!
  The designer basically seems like a very thorough designer, but I could do without all the associated rhetoric and chest thumping.


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## bowei006

Ill see if i can get BOM op amp. There are some problems in using O2 with Q701 for me.


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## Bill-P

Wow, my apologies, bowei006!
   
  I merely wanted to point out that the O2 you were comparing against your E12 wasn't the same as the O2 that most everyone else (who isn't a DIY'er) has. I didn't have the intention to blow it out into a O2 measurement debate.

 I deeply apologize for that.


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## bowei006

I'll look around for the JRC NJM2068D. Which is the standard BOM one used by JDS Labs. Only problem is that shipping is so much more expensive than the chip itself
   
  $.39 cent op amp and $5 USPS shipping.


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## Chris J

gimbertt said:


> Isn't the M Stage the amp that the O2 designer doesn't like? Just as long as you like it.




I can't find any reference to the O2 guy not liking the M Stage in his blog.
Do you think you can point me to a link?
Just curious is all........
I wouldn't mind seeing some measurements.

But he does seem to like the FiiO stuff!


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## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> I can't find any reference to the O2 guy not liking the M Stage in his blog.
> Do you think you can point me to a link?
> Just curious is all........
> I wouldn't mind seeing some measurements.
> ...


 
  He identifies the E7, E5 as being well measured devices for the price So I guess that's a go in his book 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  FiiO products in general are definately engaging and fun to listen to with a general sound signature toward forward energetic vocals with a good bass to back it. They will however generally lack in clarity(when compared to others), soundstage and overal neutrality.
   
  But of course, in the overal sense of the world, products like these are elitist. The differences are (to a consumer) very small and it all really depends on the user to decide if the improvements are worth it really.
   
  Yes... I just want to rant. As I want to type fast on my keyboard and the other thread isn't moving fast so I am just typing fast for the sake of typing on my mechanical keyboard now!


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## Hutnicks

Quote: 





gimbertt said:


> "To my ears" the E12 is far superior to the O2. The E12 gives my ATH-AD900 and Alessandro MS-1i bass punch, vocal clarity while keeping the detail. It will be part of my setup for listening to full size headphones.
> 
> This will most probably get me in trouble but I have never come to grips with the O2 because, to me, it is thin, I get sibilance and the vocals disappear. There is no bass. If this is what a neutral reference amplifier that measures objectively well sounds like then I have subjectively decided that I like color and some distortion. It is a bit better with the AD797 op amp and I am interested in trying the 2134 to see if that makes it listenable to me.
> 
> I know I will get flamed for this blasphemy but but I have decided that my choice of equipment that becomes my preferred option to listen to my choice of music is, for me, a subjective choice. I like what I like!


 

 Post of the year material right there.
   
  Just at what point in time did we all lose our minds and decide that we should let a waterfall graph tell us what we should be hearing? The whole issue of objectivism in audio has gotten totally out of hand. Measured specs are at best a guide and an engineering tool, not and end unto themselves. Has no one clued in and realized that music is not recorded objectively? If it was, it would all sound the same.


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## Chris J

Quote: 





hutnicks said:


> Post of the year material right there.
> 
> Just at what point in time did we all lose our minds and decide that we should let a waterfall graph tell us what we should be hearing? The whole issue of objectivism in audio has gotten totally out of hand. Measured specs are at best a guide and an engineering tool, not and end unto themselves. Has no one clued in and realized that music is not recorded objectively? If it was, it would all sound the same.


 
  As an Electrical Engineer I can tell you that any consumer product, no.......any product is always judged _*partially*_ on subjective criteria.
  Even circuit breakers, capacitors, resistors are designed with a little bit of visual style.
  I'm sure the US military buys guns and armaments _*partially*_ based on the subjective experience.
  Someone has to pick it up and shoot it, carry it around, sling it over their shoulder. They may not admit it to themselves, but it just has to feel right.
  It may only count for a few percentage points in the big picture, but it's always there.
   
  People buy cars partially based on the fact that brand X, model G Mark III looks good and feels good when you drive it.
  The "other leading brand" just doesn't feel right to the buyer, the seating or position of the steering wheel doesn't feel right. Obviously you can quantify all of this (or most of it) but ultimately "feel" has a bit to do with it.
   
   
  And why should audio equipment be any different?   
  If don't like the way a piece of audio equipment sounds and feels, I ain't buyin' it.
  As far as I'm concerned, a lot of audio people like a touch of distortion, a touch of colour, flavour.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





chris j said:


> As an Electrical Engineer I can tell you that any consumer product, no.......any product is always judged _*partially*_ on subjective criteria.
> Even circuit breakers, capacitors, resistors are designed with a little bit of visual style.
> _*I'm sure the US military buys guns and armaments partially based on the subjective experience.*_
> _*Someone has to pick it up and shoot it, carry it around, sling it over their shoulder. They may not admit it to themselves, but it just has to feel right.*_
> ...


 
  The problem with objectivism (Sorry Ayn for the perversions around, using your vernacular for nefarious purposes) is it is only invoked in a subjective way. I choose either to be objectivist (emphatically not objective here as the two split ways ages ago) or choose to select my stuff due to any other number of criteria. If in fact we all had royer mic's for ears with no deviation in hearing and had the same taste in music and music was all recorded at the same studio under sterile conditions with the same eq and mix applied to the same instruments on every cut of every album by every artist, well then.........................objectivism still wouldn't work because each of our brains has been trained to perceive sound in very very different ways, that is impossible to replicate and is what largely determines our listening preferences. An opera singer will find listening to a rock track a very different experience from a 20 year old accountant with an audio hobby. Setting performance metrics is fine for baseline requisites, but to think that any deviation is blasphemy is akin to saying the Met is an unacceptable music hall because it does not sound exactly like the Sydney opera house or Beyreuth. The heart of the music lives in the differences.


----------



## waynes world

In case you haven't noticed ClieOS's recent impressions of the E12. I found his comments about the soundstage interesting:
   
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> Subjective listening wise, E12 is undoubtedly a class above your typical sub-$150 portable amp and really pushing itself among the top sounding $200 portable like Leckerton Audio UHA-4, JDS Labs C421 and O2. Good news first – as far as power goes, E12 easily wins out. Control wise, it is also excellent. Even without any bass boost, bass is impactful, solid and very tight. Now comes the bad news – as far as soundstage goes, E12 really loses out. While depth is merely decent, the width feels really narrowed. Overall, the whole presentation seems to get compressed and become rather upfront. Everything seems to be more in-your-face than they should. It is not totally flat, but it is certainly far from being transparent in the overall soundstage, including separation, image and position. As a result of the narrower soundstage, everything feels much more forwarded, which also gives it a slightly edgy and grainy feeling, full of energy and excitement but lack in refinement and resolution. Strange enough it also sounds thicker, richer and more euphonic in the mid without getting congested.


 
   
  I hadn't noticed that with my AD900X's because they have a very large soundstage to begin with. But I do think that I had notice it with my GR07BE's, which became more evident when I tried out my E11's with them instead.
   
  I prefer the E12 with my AD900X's (amazing synergy), but I think I prefer my E11 with my GR07BE's (amazing synergy!).
   
  Thoughts?


----------



## bowei006

The edgy upfrontalness of it is of course noticeable. Most neutral clear sounding amps are more forward in presentation (comparatively)
After I finished my review and review period. I only used them on my IEMs.

I dont generally activelly critically listen and take notes after a review is over. I do it again when another review calls for critical listening an comparison. So not too many thoughts here


----------



## waynes world

Thanks Panda man. OT completely, but I just noticed your number of posts... is that a record? Epic!


----------



## bowei006

waynes world said:


> Thanks Panda man. OT completely, but I just noticed your number of posts... is that a record? Epic!


What does OT mean?

Almost to #3 most posted soon... So maybe


----------



## Vidmaven

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> What does OT mean?
> 
> Almost to #3 most posted soon... So maybe


 
  OT = off topic.


----------



## Evshrug

Boweii009, just found this thread for the first time... Great work here, amazing extra effort in the Q&A section and all the photos!


----------



## bowei006

Thanks for the compliments.


----------



## chanle

I borrowed my friend's E12 to test my Q701 and i think it's better than my O2. I guess i'm gonna ebay my O2 and get the E12.


----------



## Hutnicks

Question here. Someone was selling an E12 Andes in the classifieds. What the devil is that and how does it relate to the Mont Blanc?


----------



## waynes world

Quote: 





hutnicks said:


> Question here. Someone was selling an E12 Andes in the classifieds. What the devil is that and how does it relate to the Mont Blanc?


 
   
  Must be a mistake. Got a link?


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





waynes world said:


> Must be a mistake. Got a link?


 

 Well it just so happens I do.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/652818/fiio-e12-andes-like-new


----------



## waynes world

Quote: 





hutnicks said:


> Well it just so happens I do.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/652818/fiio-e12-andes-like-new


 
   
  I want an E12 Andes now!


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





waynes world said:


> I want an E12 Andes now!


 

 Can the K2 be far behind? I can see it now, mountains of bass


----------



## waynes world

Quote: 





hutnicks said:


> Can the K2 be far behind? I can see it now, mountains of bass


 
   
  All I know is that *I want it*!!!


----------



## jRi0T68

E07K is the Andes, lol.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





jri0t68 said:


> E07K is the Andes, lol.


 
  Ah thank you . How in heck does one get that confused with E12?
   
  Think I'll give him a shout when he sells his HD800 momentums


----------



## jRi0T68

Haha.

We should start a pool on what the E18 gets designated as.


----------



## Swy05

Quote: 





jri0t68 said:


> Haha.
> 
> We should start a pool on what the E18 gets designated as.


 
   
  Kunlun.  It's mentioned in another thread.


----------



## jRi0T68

I missed that. Thanks.


----------



## bowei006

The poor seller messed up. I have done it MANY times messing up all different kind of names for stuff. 

Its a bit hard after a bit

Olympus
Kilimanjaro
Mont blac
Alpen
Andes
Mckinley
Rocky
Kunlun
"Everest?"

Are the only ones I know and I mess them up sometimes as I type


----------



## Chris J

Hmmmmm,
Is there a FiiO "Foothill"?


----------



## bowei006

chris j said:


> Hmmmmm,
> Is there a FiiO "Foothill"?


We can petition for it. FB and Head fi


----------



## JamesFiiO

after 1 or 2 years, everyone will get use to the way we name our products, lol,


----------



## bowei006

jamesfiio said:


> after 1 or 2 years, everyone will get use to the way we name our products, lol,


Name the next one Panda Mountain  or something

Im sure theres a mountain somewhere called that 

Ill petition for it.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Name the next one Panda Mountain
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  How about just a generic "Bear Mountain"?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> How about just a generic "Bear Mountain"?


 
  No

  Panda Mountain only


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> No
> 
> Panda Mountain only


 
   
  Fine.
  Then it's Polar Bear Mountain!
  Got it?




   
  We really need to get a grip!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Fine.
> Then it's Polar Bear Mountain!
> Got it?
> 
> ...


 
  Bi-Polar Panda Mountain
   
  Final offer


----------



## tuna47

Any chance these will drive the he500 when I am away from my home station


----------



## disastermouse

tuna47 said:


> Any chance these will drive the he500 when I am away from my home station



This is exactly what I want to know! I'm thinking of getting the Centrance Hi-Fi M8, but this could hold me over and it's a LOT cheaper.


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> Bi-Polar Panda Mountain
> 
> Final offer




I think that Panda needs medication and Anger Management Therapy.
I recommend 3 hours a day listening to Classical music via a FiiO e12.


----------



## bowei006

chris j said:


> I think that Panda needs medication and Anger Management Therapy.
> I recommend 3 hours a day listening to Classical music via a FiiO e12.


Fine. Recommend me some. I pop on some compositions from Beethoven and Mozart sometimes.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Fine. Recommend me some. I pop on some compositions from Beethoven and Mozart sometimes.


 

 Get hold of a copy of the Solti Ring. Just re mastered on dvd and I believe BluRay. This is the opera recording that actually knocked several name brand pop singers off the charts. It is of historical interest as it was done at the inception of Stereo and produced by a man determined to create a sound stage for listeners to immerse themselves in. Just about every recording since owes a great debt to John Culshaw and the pioneering methods he developed for this recording. The detail and effects here make this about the best test disk you could imagine. From Incredible high vocal to the very depths of the sound spectrum there is music here to stress even the best systems out there. It is this recording more than any other that woke the world up to the possibilities multi channel audio presented.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hutnicks said:


> Get hold of a copy of the Solti Ring. Just re mastered on dvd and I believe BluRay. This is the opera recording that actually knocked several name brand pop singers off the charts. It is of historical interest as it was done at the inception of Stereo and produced by a man determined to create a sound stage for listeners to immerse themselves in. Just about every recording since owes a great debt to John Culshaw and the pioneering methods he developed for this recording. The detail and effects here make this about the best test disk you could imagine. From Incredible high vocal to the very depths of the sound spectrum there is music here to stress even the best systems out there. It is this recording more than any other that woke the world up to the possibilities multi channel audio presented.


 
  Thanks, it looks very legendary!


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Thanks, it looks very legendary!


 

 It is, and if you can get hold of Culshaws Ring Resounding, It gives an amazing view into how recordings happen and the grief silliness and rewards that go with it. It was actually reading that book that turned me on to opera. Amazon has it as an Ebook.


----------



## Evshrug

hutnicks said:


> Can the K2 be far behind? I can see it now, mountains of bass



You get it that Mont Blanc is also a mountain, right? Really big one, on the border of France and Switzerland? I've been there, but not all the way to the summit.




bowei006 said:


> Fine. Recommend me some. I pop on some compositions from Beethoven and Mozart sometimes.



I'm also a fan of Hayden. Bach is of course impressive.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> You get it that Mont Blanc is also a mountain, right? Really big one, on the border of France and Switzerland? I've been there, but not all the way to the summit.
> I'm also a fan of Hayden. Bach is of course impressive.


 

 And you get it that K2 is the second highest peak on earth,right? In the Karakoram mountian range.


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> Fine. Recommend me some. I pop on some compositions from Beethoven and Mozart sometimes.




Rachmaninoff,

2nd and 3rd Piano Concerto with Byron Janis on Piano.
It may calm down that bi-polar Panda Bear.


----------



## bowei006

Thanks for the recommendations human overlords.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Thanks for the recommendations human overlords.


 

 On that note...

  Spectacular usage of the human voice, conducted by the composer. What could possibly be better than that?
   
  Perhaps..

   
  Almost autobiograhical in its composition, and conducted by Harnoncourt, makes for a very intense performance.
   
  And to take the sting out of the heavies there.
  Kuniko Kato working on Steve Reich's music. Modern Classical and completely mesmerizing. (trance aint got nuthin on this). Do not play this on a loop, you may not get out alive.
  http://www.linnrecords.com/recording-kuniko-plays-reich.aspx


----------



## Evshrug

hutnicks said:


> And you get it that K2 is the second highest peak on earth,right? In the Karakoram mountian range.



Actually, I didn't know that, thought you were talking about some other amp, heh. An E15 K2 or something like that would be kind of an unweildy name, don't you think? Doesn't really matter tho  Where is the Karakoram?


----------



## desiknow

Are they going to be importing more of the new E12's?
I can't find them anywhere for purchase.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Actually, I didn't know that, thought you were talking about some other amp, heh. An E15 K2 or something like that would be kind of an unweildy name, don't you think? Doesn't really matter tho
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Between China India Tibet and Pakistan. It is the range west of the Himalayas.


----------



## DJBaila

Great Review, I have one, sound is very neutral, very powerful,  I wish Bass booster was more noticeable.


----------



## waynes world

Quote: 





djbaila said:


> Great Review, I have one, sound is very neutral, very powerful,  I wish Bass booster was more noticeable.


 
   
  Do you have V1 or V2?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





djbaila said:


> Great Review, I have one, sound is very neutral, very powerful,  I wish Bass booster was more noticeable.


 
  V2 rectifies that
  Quote: 





waynes world said:


> Do you have V1 or V2?


 
  V2 just went on sale. 90% V1.
   
  It's not even V1 or V2.
   
  It's more like the first one is now 'beta'. FiiO stated the rest will all have the 'actual' bass.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> V2 rectifies that
> V2 just went on sale. 90% V1.
> 
> It's not even V1 or V2.
> ...


 

 Oh, hang on to that! You *know* someone out there is going to be unhappy with the new bass and offer you untold millions for your less enhanced model


----------



## Cocki

Very nice and detailed work there partner!
I have the e11 and e17. I can't wait to hear about the changes


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hutnicks said:


> Oh, hang on to that! You *know* someone out there is going to be unhappy with the new bass and offer you untold millions for your less enhanced model


 
  i'm guessing if someone does. They will pay $120 for a used E12 beta variant.
   
  Not millions.
   
  My guess is that FiiO only changed it because EVERYONE was asking about it. Our forum and Chinese ones noticed it.

 The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few I guess.
   
  But yeah, there will be some.
   
  500 I believe of beta variant were shipped out. Not exactly limited edition. but last I remember, FiiO has sold a million units of their entire products in total. So I guess 500 may be a bit special haha.


----------



## Evshrug

Quantify "EVERYONE," lol. They're really not going to be much different, the two boosts that is. I appreciated the deep deep target of the first one because it's those Freq's that are affected the most by headphone bass roll-off. AFAIK the revision is still going to boost the frequencies by the same amount, but it peaks at a higher frequency and thus affects a headphone's frequency curves before the bass roll-off. So, the effect will be that higher bass notes will be affected and more noticeable because it "stacks up" on the headphone's midbass more, but sub bass will roll off as notes approach the lowest audible (or just felt) ranges.

Meh, life's a trade off.


----------



## AddisonTaras

Hello!
  For a while I was considering the E17 for my DT990 Pro (which I've had unamped since I got it at Christmas) but I recently changed my mind to the E12.
  I was just wondering if any of you recommend a DAC to go along with it?

 Is it necessary/something I need to get right away? My Mac has an average soundcard and my PC laptop has an average/below average soundcard. (will be listening to music through the Mac more often though, and iPod)
  Will a DAC help with the quality? I've been looking at the D3, but do you think I should save up and go for some more expensive?
  Like the A1, would that compliment it well/be better than the D3? or should I go even higher than that? or should I look at other companies and such? would other companies' amps work with the E12?
   
  Also, is setting up an Amp + DAC hard? is it different for each model/company/kind? Do I need to buy any cables or do they come with?
  I've never done it before.

 Sorry for so many (ignorant) questions, I've just been wanting all my questions answered for a while... and we all start somewhere! right?


----------



## bowei006

addisontaras said:


> Hello!
> For a while I was considering the E17 for my DT990 Pro (which I've had unamped since I got it at Christmas) but I recently changed my mind to the E12.
> I was just wondering if any of you recommend a DAC to go along with it?
> 
> ...


Nope. Not hard. For higher end equipment its best to "match" sound sig of units but not really here.

Just make sure the units input what you want and output what you want. For example for your setup. You wouldnt get a dac that only inputs coaxial and outputs rca. 

You could start off with no DAC. It really depends on if you personally think its worth it.

I would say to get an L9 LOD with the E12 for your ipod or iphone(you have one right?) this will allow you a cheap way to hear and decide if you want a high quality dac for your laptops


----------



## AddisonTaras

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Nope. Not hard. For higher end equipment its best to "match" sound sig of units but not really here.
> 
> Just make sure the units input what you want and output what you want. For example for your setup. You wouldnt get a dac that only inputs coaxial and outputs rca.
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you for responding!
   
  Do _you _think I should get a DAC ASAP? or is it something that could wait a while?
  I'm just curious to hear other peoples thoughts.
   
  I'm still not even 100% sure on how a DAC works exactly
  Like, I know it takes your digital source files or w/e and converts it to analog
  But because it converts it to analog, does that make it sound better? how so?
  Is it basically a sound card replacement/takes the sound from your computer/sound card and makes it better?
   
  Do DACs make a noticeable difference? I mean, it obviously changes depending on the model/price and such - but in your experience, have DACs been really worth it to you/must have?
   
  I'll definitely order the L9 LOD with my E12 when I do so.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





addisontaras said:


> Thank you for responding!
> 
> Do _you _think I should get a DAC ASAP? or is it something that could wait a while?
> I'm just curious to hear other peoples thoughts.
> ...


 
  IT changes from person to person. It would be best to have a 'legit' DAC as it allows you to use your own amp. the Mac has a good DAC but its amp section is coloring it.
   
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwVIrRPoDCloYcM0xVP0dWn7gJ2CScTYf&feature=mh_lolz
   
  Here are some new commer videos.
   
  The DAC, Amp sections are the 'audio chipset' that most manufactuers call them. If you tell their represenative or ask what DAC the system use, they won't know. We as enthusiasts just seperate out the words so yeah.
   
  No, IT HAS TO convert it to analog. Your headphones can only play 'analog signals'. And thus to even play audio out on a speaker or headphone medium you rely on the entire audio chipset. the DAC takes the digital files and changes it to analog. But then it uses an amplifier to get it so that there is enough power and boosting to the signal for it to be heard on your headphone.
   
  At $100 DAC's, yes they make a noticeable difference for a majority of people and newbies I have met. After that, the differences get harder for new commers to tell if at all without placebo.


----------



## Yaazh

E12 vs. Meridian's Explorer?


----------



## Chris J

addisontaras said:


> Hello!
> For a while I was considering the E17 for my DT990 Pro (which I've had unamped since I got it at Christmas) but I recently changed my mind to the E12.
> I was just wondering if any of you recommend a DAC to go along with it?
> 
> ...





I've been using the DAC in the E17 with my E12.
This works very well.

The headphone jack on my notebook sounds awful.


----------



## waynes world

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> *At $100 DAC's, yes they make a noticeable difference for a majority of people and newbies I have met*. After that, the differences get harder for new commers to tell if at all without placebo.


 
   
  Heck, even a $20 DAC like the ELE DAC makes a huge difference


----------



## ghostchili

V1 vs V2. If I order the E12 today will it be V2 for sure. I plan on ordering from SMICorp. Any info on a V3? I can wait and keep using my E17 if thats the case.


----------



## waynes world

Quote: 





ghostchili said:


> V1 vs V2. If I order the E12 today will it be V2 for sure. I plan on ordering from SMICorp. Any info on a V3? I can wait and keep using my E17 if thats the case.


 
   
  I'm pretty sure you'd be getting V2 now. And my guess is that there won't be a V3.


----------



## bowei006

Buying from authorized dealer guarantees warranty support(fiio doesnt encorce the official statement that only buying authorized gves you warranty. They are nice enough to give everyone with fiio products support as of last I seen. This is not official, just observation)

The price is also the same.

Buy from micca store. Same price, free shipping


----------



## ghostchili

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Buying from authorized dealer guarantees warranty support(fiio doesnt encorce the official statement that only buying authorized gves you warranty. They are nice enough to give everyone with fiio products support as of last I seen. This is not official, just observation)
> 
> The price is also the same.
> 
> Buy from micca store. Same price, free shipping


 
  SMICorp is an authorized dealer, isn't it? Plus it fulfilled by Amazon prime so i get free 2 day delivery.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ghostchili said:


> SMICorp is an authorized dealer, isn't it? Plus it fulfilled by Amazon prime so i get free 2 day delivery.


 
  Yes it is. So you could go that route.


----------



## zazex

Quote: 





ghostchili said:


> V1 vs V2. If I order the E12 today will it be V2 for sure. I plan on ordering from SMICorp. Any info on a V3? I can wait and keep using my E17 if thats the case.


 

 I bought my E12 from SMI (via Amazon) on April 12th; it arrived 2 days later.
   
  Can I safely assume I have the V2?


----------



## waynes world

Quote: 





zazex said:


> I bought my E12 from SMI (via Amazon) on April 12th; it arrived 2 days later.
> 
> Can I safely assume I have the V2?


 
   
  Yup. I'm pretty sure that the V1's are long gone.


----------



## Evshrug

zazex said:


> I bought my E12 from SMI (via Amazon) on April 12th; it arrived 2 days later.
> 
> Can I safely assume I have the V2?



You do know that V2 is just Head-Fi's nickname to identify a (small) difference, right? The amp's internals aren't improved in any way. The only difference is the notes targeted by the bass boost: FiiO decided they wanted the boost to affect the more common low notes, instead of the lowest, deepest sub-bass notes (that not every song has). Like, the boost affects notes on the bass guitar, whereas before it only boosted the atmospheric bass of something like a building falling in the distance. So, I guess I could say, one was a cinematic bass boost, the mass market boost (like in the one you got) is more musical? Meh, it's not that different, don't even worry about it


----------



## waynes world

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Meh, it's not that different, don't even worry about it


 
   
  That's right ... as long as you have v1 lol!


----------



## zazex

Quote: 





waynes world said:


> Yup. I'm pretty sure that the V1's are long gone.


 
   
  Thanks for the info.
   
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> You do know that V2 is just Head-Fi's nickname to identify a (small) difference, right? The amp's internals aren't improved in any way. The only difference is the notes targeted by the bass boost: FiiO decided they wanted the boost to affect the more common low notes, instead of the lowest, deepest sub-bass notes (that not every song has). Like, the boost affects notes on the bass guitar, whereas before it only boosted the atmospheric bass of something like a building falling in the distance. So, I guess I could say, one was a cinematic bass boost, the mass market boost (like in the one you got) is more musical? Meh, it's not that different, don't even worry about it


 
   
  I thought that's what the difference was, but I wasn't entirely sure.
  Thanks for nailing it down.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> You do know that V2 is just Head-Fi's nickname to identify a (small) difference, right? The amp's internals aren't improved in any way. The only difference is the notes targeted by the bass boost: FiiO decided they wanted the boost to affect the more common low notes, instead of the lowest, deepest sub-bass notes (that not every song has). Like, the boost affects notes on the bass guitar, whereas before it only boosted the atmospheric bass of something like a building falling in the distance. So, I guess I could say, one was a cinematic bass boost, the mass market boost (like in the one you got) is more musical? Meh, it's not that different, don't even worry about it


 
   
  thanks for this, it is more easy to understand by others.


----------



## Duncan

Just had my E12 delivered by Amazon...
   
  Works well with Sony XBA4 
   
  Good work Fiio


----------



## bowei006

It should be noted as well that high gain was increased from 10dB on pre prod model to 16dB on retail model.


----------



## Evshrug

jamesfiio said:


> thanks for this, it is more easy to understand by others.



I'm glad it was helpful. I was pretty tired when I wrote it, and I was afraid I the description would make things more confusing. You know I like the one I have, but I understand (I think) what you are trying to achieve with the current boost effect. Benefits to each boost, but it really is a minor tweak to an optional function.



bowei006 said:


> It should be noted as well that high gain was increased from 10dB on pre prod model to 16dB on retail model.



From what James told me a while back, even though I wouldn't mind if high gain was "just" 10 dB, all the E12's publicly available (including my pre-order one) are internally configured to have a high-gain at 16 dB, it's just that the design choice was changed at the last minute so the first batch of enclosures were mislabeled. The shift in the frequency position of the bass boost (and the mislabel) is the only difference. Right James?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I'm glad it was helpful. I was pretty tired when I wrote it, and I was afraid I the description would make things more confusing. You know I like the one I have, but I understand (I think) what you are trying to achieve with the current boost effect. Benefits to each boost, but it really is a minor tweak to an optional function.
> From what James told me a while back, even though I wouldn't mind if high gain was "just" 10 dB, all the E12's publicly available (including my pre-order one) are internally configured to have a high-gain at 16 dB, it's just that the design choice was changed at the last minute so the first batch of enclosures were mislabeled. The shift in the frequency position of the bass boost (and the mislabel) is the only difference. Right James?


 
  Is that so? That would be interesting to note. Hope to hear back from James on this.


----------



## Evshrug

It's either in the release thread or in my PMs somewhere. There is a slight chance I misunderstood him, but I doubt it.


----------



## jassed

Just received my e12 today. Using it with my 5th gen iPod touch, I can hear a lot of noise on the left channel whenever there's WiFi activity, otherwise its clean when I turn WiFi off. Anyone having the same issue?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jassed said:


> Just received my e12 today. Using it with my 5th gen iPod touch, I can hear a lot of noise on the left channel whenever there's WiFi activity, otherwise its clean when I turn WiFi off. Anyone having the same issue?


 
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet!"
   
  I do get some EMI when my iPhone is in close proximinity to the E12


----------



## jassed

Guess I'll just have to stay away from strong radio waves. Anyways, first impression of the E12 I felt that soundstage is narrower than e07 and e11, but I can live with that in return for the better punch and prat factor.


----------



## jassed

Guess I'll just have to stay away from strong radio waves. Anyways, first impression of the E12 I felt that soundstage is narrower than e07 and e11, but I can live with that in return for the better punch and prat factor.


----------



## Tehol

I have a couple questions if you don't mind.  I'm fairly new to this and am still learning so try to bear with the newbie aspects of my queries.  I primarily use an HTC 8x for music with Ortofon e-q5 IEMs.  I turn the Beats feature off and get decent sound but I would like to improve my source as much as possible and was thinking of buying the e12.
   
  The e-q5s are easy to drive and the HTC 8x supposedly sends some extra juice to the 3.5 mm (~2.5v total) so the volume is good but I am also thinking about getting the FXZ200 for when I feel like listening to music with a different sound sig and read those do benefit from some extra power (sensitivity is 96db I think).  I'd also very occasionally use it to drive a couple of pairs of IEMs or headphones for watching movies with my wife when our toddler is asleep and listen to music at my PC but it is really for mobile use. 
   
  My original budget was $100 to get my feet wet with portable amps but I'll stretch it a bit  for this.  So I'm not after a 'volume booster,' if that's what I'm essentially doing, I'll listen to any advice or criticism.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tehol said:


> I have a couple questions if you don't mind.  I'm fairly new to this and am still learning so try to bear with the newbie aspects of my queries.  I primarily use an HTC 8x for music with Ortofon e-q5 IEMs.  I turn the Beats feature off and get decent sound but I would like to improve my source as much as possible and was thinking of buying the e12.
> 
> The e-q5s are easy to drive and the HTC 8x supposedly sends some extra juice to the 3.5 mm (~2.5v total) so the volume is good but I am also thinking about getting the FXZ200 for when I feel like listening to music with a different sound sig and read those do benefit from some extra power (sensitivity is 96db I think).  I'd also very occasionally use it to drive a couple of pairs of IEMs or headphones for watching movies with my wife when our toddler is asleep and listen to music at my PC but it is really for mobile use.
> 
> My original budget was $100 to get my feet wet with portable amps but I'll stretch it a bit  for this.  So I'm not after a 'volume booster,' if that's what I'm essentially doing, I'll listen to any advice or criticism.


 
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet!"
   
  earphones are designed to work with the majority of the sources. Sensitivity doesn't matter IF you don't have the same comparison used in terms of how much power or 96dB by what etc etc. 
   
  Anyway, the term, benefit from power is generally used by people here on HF and around the audiophile world to mean it really just improves. I wouldn't say the improving is from the extra power. That would actually be wrong. As most music players have enough Current and Voltage so in that sense 'benefit' from 'extra power' would be a bit elitist. But what is generally meant is that due to how 'good' the amp is, it will thus improve it. Many like to listen to music a bit louder in this day and age which is why I think the term 'benefit from power' is still with us today.
   
  So now the question is why and should you. Android devices(popular ones) on genral do not have a very good amp section out. so thus pairing it with another amp will basically mean that that amp, say the E12 will just be amping the already not too good sound out of the HTC.
   
  This is usually fixed with a LOD, but the HTC's do not feature this. Some Android (depending on software, hardware, and OS support) can send digital signal to DAC and amp but that function is not always 100% reproducable by people.
   
  If the volume is loud enough right now and fine. I would say to just go with it. As of right now, it would only be worth strapping an amp to your phone if you want to drive some bigger headphones out.
   
  Getting a differnt player and other options would be better future options in my opinion.


----------



## Tehol

Many thanks for the thoughtful answer. My OS is Windows so I'll see if LOD is supported. I do have a couple of ipods in my desk drawer; I think I will dust one off since that looks like a better solution in terms of SQ if one goes with a portable amp.


----------



## Evshrug

LOD stands for Line Out Dock... literally, a line-out feed from the docking pins of a portable music player, usually an iPod. Some portable CD players used to have line-outputs built in, but all the line-out options for iPods were waaaay expensive except for Apple's dock (which IMO was pretty expensive too), then finally cheaper options began to be released (my favorite being FiiO's L11). For me, my iPod's headphone jack was starting to wear out and short sometimes, so I got my first LOD and modest FiiO E5 amp as an alternative, but hooking that pairing up to my cassette adapter for my car radio was a revelation! Where previously I had sadly considered that the speakers were almost blown out, suddenly music had much better control and clarity. The main use for an line-out signal, of course, is to bypass a built-in amp so that you don't have the extra coloration of double-amping when using something like an E12.

The E12 was also a clarity and refinement upgrade from the E5, not to mention the bass boost was actually usable without a large hit to overall SQ. Also improved the sense of "depth" in placing instruments in a realistic space.


----------



## UnreelWorld

Headfi noob...  Some quick Q's regarding E12 and gain. My setup AKG K550s with double amping Astro Mixamp RX5.8 (for Dolby headphone) and E12.
   
  With gain at 16db, I achieve much higher volumes, pot at 35-50% and hiss gets heavy at 50% but its LOUD. Gain @ 0.
   
  Pot is at near 100%, volume is loud but no room for extra oomph (if desired) but no hiss (or very little)
   
*So is is better to run this amp at 0 gain at or very near 100% (loud with no room for more and almost no hiss)*
*-or-*
*16db gain at or near 50% with more hiss (across the board) BUT more volume to really add oomph when desired*
   
  I feel uneasy running a amp at 100% rather than 50%, is that justified?
   
  Thx!


----------



## korebrent

bowei006 said:


> Sorry. I wasn't being defensive. I was just making a point that I didnt start talking about noise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol dude put the ol butt hurt faced uh whatever that cute thing is lol well played Sir well played


----------



## korebrent

chris j said:


> After my, um, "cooldown time", I think I am the one who owes you an apology.
> For my part, I do enjoy this thread!
> BTW, the bear video clips cracks me up!


I haven't laughed so hard in months reading this post n this picture lol


----------



## Tehol

found a v1 locally from a guy that wanted the v2 bass boost for his Shures.  I really like it so far but need to spend some time lost in music to get a sense of it.  The help and advice I got for my questions is appreciated.  I did like the more subtle boost from the V1 as a matter of personal preference.


----------



## Duncan

I think I would probably prefer v1 as well, as I find my E12 bass-boost a tiny bit over-bearing...
   
  Haha, can't win them all - consumer preference was for stronger bass, and now we're asking for the opposite...


----------



## Chris J

unreelworld said:


> Headfi noob...  Some quick Q's regarding E12 and gain. My setup AKG K550s with double amping Astro Mixamp RX5.8 (for Dolby headphone) and E12.
> 
> With gain at 16db, I achieve much higher volumes, pot at 35-50% and hiss gets heavy at 50% but its LOUD. Gain @ 0.
> 
> ...




Hey,
In your case, running the amp at 100% is nothing to worry about.
As long as the amp's output is still clean, i.e no clipping, you should be OK.
Better to have less hissssss than more hissssss.

Maybe someone with some Astro Mixamp experience can weigh in here, I'm surprised that the Astro is not outputting more volume, sounds like the volume or gain is not set correctly in the Mixamp???


----------



## UnreelWorld

^^^ Thx for the reply. The mixamp is set to full volume and has no gain control. I do not get clipping with the E12 on low gain at or near 100%, it is very loud and impactful with very little hiss (all the way up to near 100%) On high gain I get to the same volume and hiss at 50% (or slightly less). For now, low gain supplies enough volume and less hiss so if 85% is no biggie that is what I am running with


----------



## Chris J

Strange, the K550 is a very efficient headphone.

I use AKG Q701 at 0 dB gain and I don't have to turn the volume way, way up to get a decent volume level.
I hope someone else has some Mixamp experience they can add?


----------



## bowei006

The only time we should worry about volume percent is when a dac is in play. Not sure how mixamp works but it is a dac and amp so it may be best to max out the mixamp as the one being maxed.


----------



## Chris J

The Mixamp is an amp which also mixes a nice, refeshing alcoholic beverage which should be consumed in moderation


----------



## lesda

(I did ask this question on your youtube channel - but ill ask you here in more detail)
   
  Hi! First of all, I'm a newbie in the audiophile world and I can't believe it took me so long to get into it!  I need your help!
  I currently have the Fiio e17 and let me just say it's awesome and I love it! Now, I decided to leave it for home-use as a DAC/Amp since (I guess) my inner OCD wants it be left in a specific place beside my computer along with my headphone.. But enough about that.
   
  My question is I'm debating whether to get the e12 or e11 as my "on the go" amp. Size-wise, the e12 looks 2x as big and doesn't seem as portable. Is the size difference worth it in terms of sound quality? The price of e11 is half of the e12. Also, have you tried the C&C BH? It seems very portable and from what i've read has better SQ than e11.
   
  Not sure if it matters, but I will be using the amp with an ipod touch along with ATH-M50 and Vsonic GR07 mk2. In terms of the music I listen to its very random, from Daft Punk to Michael Buble to Simple Plan to Jazz.
   
  Hope you can give me your insight on this!  Thanks!


----------



## lesda

Or do you think I should just use the e17 as my portable and get a desktop amp instead? If so, can you give me suggestions (around 150$)?


----------



## bowei006

I think size of E12 and price is justified.

There is another member that did a E12 and CC review. 

Those headphones dont really require an amp. You dont need something expensive for them really.

Ive only had limited time with athm50 but have borrowed gr07 mk2 for two weeks.
The vsonic would pair better with the e12, but then again

I didnt think it was absolutely necessary to use an amp.

Dont remember ath m50 needs but if its like other people, it should be an efficient headphone.


----------



## Schokolade bar

I'm going to be travelling a lot soon and wanted an amp to take that wouldn't take ages to replace since my Headstage 3G took quite a while to get. I wanted to know how this stacks up in terms compared to the Headstage Arrow? I use the E07k as my DAC with the 3G but wouldn't mind taking it with me if the E12 is a good alternative.


----------



## lesda

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I think size of E12 and price is justified.
> 
> There is another member that did a E12 and CC review.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, I think I'm going to go with E12. This hobby is turning to be more expensive by the minute.  I'm also planning to get the HE400 soon (if my wallet allows it) so it might work better with it?


----------



## bowei006

Sorry about your wallet! 

Remember though.
Many amps and companies to buy from


----------



## lesda

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Sorry about your wallet!
> 
> Remember though.
> Many amps and companies to buy from


 
   
  Alright, Thanks a lot! 
   
  Edit: Just got my fiio e12! Used it with my HE400 and they're awesome!


----------



## effsandoval

I am thinking of buying a fiio e12 to pair it with my Cowon x9. I wonder if it could increase the power of my x9 and improve the sound. I am a little hesitant in buying the amp because my x9 does not have a LOD. Also if I pair it with my Galaxy Note 2 the Cellular and Wifi signal would ruin the experience.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





effsandoval said:


> I am thinking of buying a fiio e12 to pair it with my Cowon x9. I wonder if it could increase the power of my x9 and improve the sound. I am a little hesitant in buying the amp because my x9 does not have a LOD. Also if I pair it with my Galaxy Note 2 the Cellular and Wifi signal would ruin the experience.


 
  "Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet"
  \
  It will increase power, but what do you need that increase in driving power for?


----------



## Tehol

I ended up switching the source to a Rockboxed iPod with a LOD to the e12 but FWIW I did not get much interference on the amp from my HTC phone.  However, I did not keep the phone and amp banded together - the phone was on a belt holster and the amp in a pocket or in a cheapo belt clip.


----------



## zerolight

Oops. Never mind.


----------



## LikeGoodAudio

Hey, I'm considering a Fiio product for Grado SR80i running through either an iMac or iPhone (about 50/50) usage. Would you recommend the E12 or the E07k for my situation?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





likegoodaudio said:


> Hey, I'm considering a Fiio product for Grado SR80i running through either an iMac or iPhone (about 50/50) usage. Would you recommend the E12 or the E07k for my situation?


 
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet!"
   
  Out of the two, I would recommend the E07K considering that you want to use with both a computer and portable device.
   
  The sound of the E12 is much better than E07K, but the E07K serves multi functions.
   
  Keep in mind that Leckerton, iBasso, HeadAmp and many other companies also have units that you could choose. Portable amp/DAC units that is.


----------



## LikeGoodAudio

Thanks for the reply! Does the E12 only work with certain devices?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





likegoodaudio said:


> Thanks for the reply! Does the E12 only work with certain devices?


 
  In a sense yes.
   
  It's an amp with a 3.5mm input.
   
  So thus it can only work with devices outputting a 3.5mm analog signal with an output format that is 3.5mm or something that can change into it.


----------



## LikeGoodAudio

It looks like the e07k is better if you want to listen to high resolution audio, but if you only listen to CDs or mp3 (my situation), then the e12 would be the better choice. Do I have this correct?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





likegoodaudio said:


> It looks like the e07k is better if you want to listen to high resolution audio, but if you only listen to CDs or mp3 (my situation), then the e12 would be the better choice. Do I have this correct?


 
  The E07K is better if you want to use it with both a computer as a DAC and a phone as an amp(or even a DAC if you want to risk it). 
   
  The E12 is just an amp. But the E12's amp section is much better than the E07Ks.
   
Here's my video on it. Click.
   
  They are two entirely different devices for different purposes. It's best to choose the one that fits you best.
   
  E12 and E07K are already for 'high res' audio as these devices are already way past what is used in consumer devices. What you want to use the feautres is another issue.


----------



## LikeGoodAudio

Maybe it would be best to start with the E07k since I'm not sure yet how I will end up using it, and it is more versatile


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





likegoodaudio said:


> Maybe it would be best to start with the E07k since I'm not sure yet how I will end up using it, and it is more versatile


 
  It is more versatile yes. 
   
  Any thoughts on what you may want to do with it?
   
  --Many other devices with similar features also exist just to let you know.--


----------



## LikeGoodAudio

Aw heck, sorry to sound wishy washy but just not sure about this stuff... Presently I only listen to mp3 files, or maybe a CD. Could be played on my iMac or iPhone. Tonight I'm learning about the existence of "high res" audio for the first time. Mostly I listen to pop rock and some pop electronic, and am unsure if this is available or sounds any better in high res. Given this... which model would you thus recommend for me?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





likegoodaudio said:


> Aw heck, sorry to sound wishy washy but just not sure about this stuff... Presently I only listen to mp3 files, or maybe a CD. Could be played on my iMac or iPhone. Tonight I'm learning about the existence of "high res" audio for the first time. Mostly I listen to pop rock and some pop electronic, and am unsure if this is available or sounds any better in high res. Given this... which model would you thus recommend for me?


 
  Pop rock and electronic GENERALLY are higher mastered than other types of music. However, I've also noticed that while they are generally better mastered. They can't be mastered or get to the point of sounding absolutely fantastic.
   
  Give that you use both your iMac and iPhone. The E07K Andes does seem to be a better bet with you.
   
  This is my E07K Andes review thread. Please give it a read if you haven't already.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/638910/fiio-e07k-andes-review-and-help-thread
   
  High Res files for modern pop isn't usually worth it. FLAC and 320 are preferable but for different reasons. FLAC for safe keeping and quality assurance and 320kbps for storage on a portable media player(iPod, iPhone, Zune etc)


----------



## LikeGoodAudio

I really liked the e07k review!
   
  However, the story gets more complicated when you start reading reviews on Amazon for some Fiio products like the E17. A number of people do not hear a difference between their PC internal sound card and the Fiio DAC products with headphones like the Grado SR80. This is really surprising to me.


----------



## bowei006

likegoodaudio said:


> I really liked the e07k review!
> 
> However, the story gets more complicated when you start reading reviews on Amazon for some Fiio products like the E17. A number of people do not hear a difference between their PC internal sound card and the Fiio DAC products with headphones like the Grado SR80. This is really surprising to me.


 not all that surprising in my opinion as it is an enthusiast product.


----------



## Evshrug

chris j said:


> Strange, the K550 is a very efficient headphone.
> 
> I use AKG Q701 at 0 dB gain and I don't have to turn the volume way, way up to get a decent volume level.
> I hope someone else has some Mixamp experience they can add?




Mixamps are known for having background noise starting around 50% volume. They do supply a little more current than options like the Turtle Beach DSS and Creative Recon3D USB, but what's the practical benefit if it still needs to be double-amped anyway and has more background noise?

Typically people recommend setting the Mixamp's volume as high as you can tolerate the noise, and then use the second amp to control volume. Probably around 50-60%. Another thing: the more "chat" volume you give balance to, the quieter the game volume. Overall the Mixamp bugs me... It's the most expensive gaming console surround processing device, but it's also the most noisy, Astro has QC issues with their USB cables (often adding more noise), and if you make use of it's unique chat/game mix, audio suffers even more. However, it is the most frequently mentioned and recommended stand-alone DSP device because some users are in a monogamous relationship with Dolby Headphone.

By the way, for all the bass lovers, the Turtle Beach DSS like I have has a better variable bass-boost than a Mixamp.

I guess I'd say you'll just have to live with some background noise, or live with a little less volume (which will allow you better hearing long-term anyway; I'm not just talking about how much hearing damage and frequency loss you'd suffer by the time you're 35, but also each gaming session you can play longer with less ear fatigue if you hold back a bit on punchy volume levels).


----------



## gimbertt

Grado's are great with the E12. They love the high current.


----------



## Chris J

gimbertt said:


> Grado's are great with the E12. They love the high current.




Everyone says they don't need much power?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Everyone says they don't need much power?


 
  Maybe PS1000 is what he is using?


----------



## gimbertt

Just an MS-1 but it is totally transformed with the E12.


----------



## Evshrug

gimbertt said:


> Just an MS-1 but it is totally transformed with the E12.



Did you look up the ms-1000 mod?


----------



## gimbertt

I have but I am not to good at the DIY.


----------



## LeeZeYee

Does the e12 work well with my V-moda Crossfade LP??


----------



## bowei006

leezeyee said:


> Does the e12 work well with my V-moda Crossfade LP??


There isnt a need for a $120 amp for those headphones. They are meant for easy driing and portable dj ing


----------



## LeeZeYee

i see, thanks allot for your reply.
  Anyway, does that mean that the e12 do enhance the sound but it is too much for my Crossfade LP?
  Or it just do nothing to the headphone?
  sorry for my noobiness, i am really new here.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





leezeyee said:


> i see, thanks allot for your reply.
> Anyway, does that mean that the e12 do enhance the sound but it is too much for my Crossfade LP?
> Or it just do nothing to the headphone?
> sorry for my noobiness, i am really new here.


 
  It will enhance it usually yes.
   
  No. What I am saying is, is that it is generally pointless to add new rims, up the suspension, pimp out the windows, and tint out everything on a 2001 Volkswagon Beetle.
   
  The amp is essentially those modifications, but using these 'upgrades' for an LP isn't exactly the best of ideas.


----------



## LeeZeYee

Alright, I finally get it. Thanks allot for helping me clear this out.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





leezeyee said:


> Alright, I finally get it. Thanks allot for helping me clear this out.


 
  At this range. $200 headphones and a $100 amp/DAC is ususally the best priced combo's.
   
  The E12 is just an amp. So it doesn't have DAC functions
   
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwVIrRPoDCloYcM0xVP0dWn7gJ2CScTYf
   
  Here are some new commer vids


----------



## LeeZeYee

Thanks dude. You gave me very much information,I really appreciate it.


----------



## tuna47

Will the e12 drive the he500 for when I am away from my home rig


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Will the e12 drive the he500 for when I am away from my home rig


 
  It should. 
   
  My friend and other users with the HE500 have said it is not that hard to drive
   
  The E12 drove the LCD-3's extremely easilly at 12dB gain.


----------



## howdy

Question, would the e12 greatly improve sq and or benefit my cowon d3?  i went it to power my re262s.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





howdy said:


> Question, would the e12 greatly improve sq and or benefit my cowon d3?  i went it to power my re262s.


 
  Are the RE262's not loud enough? I believe a Cowon DAP should produce enough power for IEMs from Hifiman.


----------



## byoung80

So if it should drive the he500, it should run the 400s a little better? I really want a nice affordable amp for when I'm not home.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





byoung80 said:


> So if it should drive the he500, it should run the 400s a little better? I really want a nice affordable amp for when I'm not home.


 
  I'm basing this off of what I know about driveability of those Hifiman's and technical the E12 should drive them as many said even the E17 could.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/604583/hifiman-he-400-impressions-and-discussion-thread/4515#post_9036385
   
   
  Power is not the issue here if that is the case. The 'quality' of the sound you want and are looking for would ultimately be.
   
  So yes, the E12 is a nice affordable amp with the power. But ultimately its up to what you want to pay for the sound quality.


----------



## byoung80

Thank you, I think I will just get. Power won't be an issue, and i'm not looking for it to give me the best sound quality, just something to take with me in my bag for when I need it.


----------



## howdy

The re262s are 150 ohm so no regular dap wo an amp can power them. Thanks though I will get the e12 for extra boost.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





byoung80 said:


> Thank you, I think I will just get. Power won't be an issue, and i'm not looking for it to give me the best sound quality, just something to take with me in my bag for when I need it.


 
  MadLustEnvy said that he liked it with the E17 by itself, so the E12 may be quite good for it. I found the sound of the E12 to be the most neutral that FiiO has ever made, whilst still having a hint of warmth that makes it fun. 
   
  If you do decide to buy it(if your descision doesn't change) please buy from an authorized dealer. They offer the same prices you see anywhere else, are authentic, and offer the newest variant of the E12, and are actually covered by Warranty.
   
  If you are in the U.S, MiccaStore directly or Amazon's Miccastore front MiccaDistributor is your best bet. SMI corp and MP4Nation are also authorized distributors but for U.S customers, I would recommend Micca as they are the preimier FiiO reseller in U.,S.A. And can offer quick warranty resolution in case something happens.


----------



## zazex

I bought an E12 a couple of weeks ago at B&H, a great seller.
  They had it in stock.


----------



## bowei006

zazex said:


> I bought an E12 a couple of weeks ago at B&H, a great seller.
> They had it in stock.


BH is an authroized seller and I do have bought stuff from them as well


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> I'm basing this off of what I know about driveability of those Hifiman's and technical the E12 should drive them as many said even the E17 could.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/604583/hifiman-he-400-impressions-and-discussion-thread/4515#post_9036385
> 
> 
> ...




Wow!
Very nicely said!
"power is not the isssue....the quality of sound you want and are looking for would ultimately be"

Sweet!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Wow!
> Very nicely said!
> "power is not the isssue....the quality of sound you want and are looking for would ultimately be"
> 
> ...


 
  And the regret syndrome sets in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Any time I get quoted and complimented. I think to myself, I should have spent more time on that phrase to clarify, make points etc so that I seem even more Panda-licious than I already am.
   
  But then after I think about it. I go, NAH. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Everything I say is already fabulous.
   
  But thanks.


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> And the regret syndrome sets in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




LOL..........already fabulous!


----------



## Luv My BASS 1

Hey guys.
   
  I was just wondering about the EMI issues with the E12. I recall reading somewhere that the EMI issues are REALLY bad, even picking up noise from a WiFi network. Does the final model of the E12 have this problem?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





luv my bass 1 said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> I was just wondering about the EMI issues with the E12. I recall reading somewhere that the EMI issues are REALLY bad, even picking up noise from a WiFi network. Does the final model of the E12 have this problem?


 
  I have never had any problems with EMI.


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> I have never had any problems with EMI.




Agreed.
I've never had any trouble with any type of interference with the E12.


----------



## rdsreference

Just received my E12 by post from Hong Kong this morning. I must say so far I am not particularly impressed. The volume knob is so stiff I can barely turn it hopefully this will improve. It certainly didn't make any real improvement to my android phone or tablet when I plugged it in. I am waiting on an X3 so maybe this will be better suited to this. I will charge my i pod classic and hopefully I will see a bigger difference. Maybe I'm expecting a little too much out of the box. I left it behind me this morning at home as it may need time to bed in. I have an Astell & Kern AK 120 also coming next month I was hoping this will do the trick but as of today it looks unlikely or maybe my  24K plug 3.5mm to 3.5mm Hifi interconnect aux cable will step it up a gear
 [size=13.333333969116211px] [size=13.333333969116211px]  [/size]
[/size]


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





rdsreference said:


> Just received my E12 by post from Hong Kong this morning. I must say so far I am not particularly impressed. The volume knob is so stiff I can barely turn it hopefully this will improve. It certainly didn't make any real improvement to my android phone or tablet when I plugged it in. I am waiting on an X3 so maybe this will be better suited to this. I will charge my i pod classic and hopefully I will see a bigger difference. Maybe I'm expecting a little too much out of the box. I left it behind me this morning at home as it may need time to bed in. I have an Astell & Kern AK 120 also coming next month I was hoping this will do the trick but as of today it looks unlikely or maybe my  24K plug 3.5mm to 3.5mm Hifi interconnect aux cable will step it up a gear
> [size=13.333333969116211px] [size=13.333333969116211px]  [/size]
> [/size]


 
  The stiff knob is an issue listed in my review, but its stiffness is also intentional as this is a portable unit. Many will use CIEM's or IEM's with it so to prevent blowing your ears, a bit of stiffness is there
   
  You get used to it and it gets looser as you use it
   
  What other amps do you use?


----------



## rdsreference

Oh boy how wrong I was... After this little amp spent the last 10 hrs working hard its has improved vastly and would surely win the bang for the buck title so easily. This is my first portable amp as such unless you want to add my Fiio e 17 which I sold recently. I can only imagine how the AK 120 with 24 bit flac files will sound. They are on my HTC one at present and they still sound mightly impressive. OK the volume knob has my fingertips worn but I suppose I'll get over it. X3 fiio is coming next week and August for the AK..


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





rdsreference said:


> Oh boy how wrong I was... After this little amp spent the last 10 hrs working hard its has improved vastly and would surely win the bang for the buck title so easily. This is my first portable amp as such unless you want to add my Fiio e 17 which I sold recently. I can only imagine how the AK 120 with 24 bit flac files will sound. They are on my HTC one at present and they still sound mightly impressive. OK the volume knob has my fingertips worn but I suppose I'll get over it. X3 fiio is coming next week and August for the AK..


 
  You get used to the volume knob/it gets more usable after a while.
   
  Dirt does and will get into the volume knob. You can tell it is there when if you turn the volume knob and you hear a scratching/grainy sound.Compressed air and cleaning of the dirt stuck inside will fix this issue just thought I'd let you know.


----------



## Tehol

As a guy that wears one for hours with a RBd iPod and IEMs I find I really appreciate that volume knob.  Just nudging the volume up or down is usually sufficient to compensate for a different kinds of sound files and I have never had it inadvertently rub against something and go quiet or blow out my eardrums.  It's easy to find too and cannot be mistaken for another control.   My $.02


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tehol said:


> As a guy that wears one for hours with a RBd iPod and IEMs I find I really appreciate that volume knob.  Just nudging the volume up or down is usually sufficient to compensate for a different kinds of sound files and I have never had it inadvertently rub against something and go quiet or blow out my eardrums.  It's easy to find too and cannot be mistaken for another control.   My $.02


 
  Yes, after a lot of usage, you get used to how to turn it and it loosens up quite a bit
   
  It's meant to protect IEM wearers from blowing up their drums.


----------



## satwilson

I think I will get this to power my modded T50RPs while out and about. For now I was going to use my ClipZip as the source. I assume the ClipZip and E12 pair well, any thoughts? Thanks, satwilson


----------



## bowei006

satwilson said:


> I think I will get this to power my modded T50RPs while out and about. For now I was going to use my ClipZip as the source. I assume the ClipZip and E12 pair well, any thoughts? Thanks, satwilson



My friend is able to drive his Mad Dogs pretty easilly. And considering the E12 could easilly 'power' (keyword, just powering it) the LCD-3's, then there shouldn't be a problem power wise.

Otherwise, I think strapping a Clip Zip to an E12 is gong to be a bigger point of attention than wondering if it works together well for most users 

I do not have an answer, but I doubt it will have a problem.


----------



## wje

Quote: 





luv my bass 1 said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> I was just wondering about the EMI issues with the E12. I recall reading somewhere that the EMI issues are REALLY bad, even picking up noise from a WiFi network. Does the final model of the E12 have this problem?


 
   
  I thought my E12 was picking up some sort of EMI from the iPod touch I was using it with.  However, when testing out the iPod without the amp, I could hear the same artifacts from the player alone.  Sold the player ... problem solved.  So far, no noise issues from the Monte Blanc to speak of.  Really a nice lil' amp to carry around and use on the go.


----------



## Makiah S

How well would this amp pair with an AKG K550 and a Hifiman Hm 601... does it boost bass as much as the E11 did?


----------



## Evshrug

As much as the E11? I haven't heard the E11, but the E12 boost is +6dB peak, so based on specs I don't think so. And I haven't heard either of those headphones, so I have no idea. Just being honest. I don't think this amp should be picked if what you really want is an EQ... mainly the appeal is in the power and cleanliness, and things like bass boost and Crossfade are just little options. Have you been able to audition the K550? I've heard mixed reviews, and I don't have use for them (I got a pair of V-MODA M-100 for "fun" or "portable" use, and they're getting the most head-time right now cuz I can use them at work during break), but I am curious anyway.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> As much as the E11? I haven't heard the E11, but the E12 boost is +6dB peak, so based on specs I don't think so. And I haven't heard either of those headphones, so I have no idea. Just being honest. I don't think this amp should be picked if what you really want is an EQ... mainly the appeal is in the power and cleanliness, and things like bass boost and Crossfade are just little options. Have you been able to audition the K550? I've heard mixed reviews, and I don't have use for them (I got a pair of V-MODA M-100 for "fun" or "portable" use, and they're getting the most head-time right now cuz I can use them at work during break), but I am curious anyway.


 
  No I have not, but they sound... as fickle as my w1000x which I hated for a week then loved unconditionally ever since... and the hm 601 is a DAP <3
   
  I'm going to try mah hardest to see if I can't review a pair of Sound Magic HP 100s... I hear so much hype about the cans I'd really love to actually get to hear them! They might be the solution to a number of issues I face. Non the less. I might just break down and buy the dt 880 pros again, and say to hell with closed cans xD. with sufficent [and not ear blistering] volumes they where pretty good while I was in class, and I'm sure in a Computer Lab the sheer noise from all those old pc fans would drown out any leakage from the dts
   
  Non the less I do like trying new things! Or rather, I'd prefer to try something new than go back to something I've already had!


----------



## jazzman7

Quote: 





tehol said:


> As a guy that wears one for hours with a RBd iPod and IEMs I find I really appreciate that volume knob.  Just nudging the volume up or down is usually sufficient to compensate for a different kinds of sound files and I have never had it inadvertently rub against something and go quiet or blow out my eardrums.  It's easy to find too and cannot be mistaken for another control.   My $.02


 
   
  The volume knob on the E12 is great.  
   
  I have the E12 and the E17.  The E12 pairs well with my iPod Video 5.5G.  They are attached using a single Fiio rubber band, nothing is covered up on either device by the band, and the dimensions of each are almost the same.  But the E12 is a little heaver than the E17 -- about 40% heavier, and my iPod is now very light after the Tarkan mod.   So, over the weekend I went "back" to the iPod/E17 pairing to see how it works.  
   
  Well, the E12 is now paired back up with the iPod.  The main reason?  No, it is not sound (although I like the E12's audio presentation a little better).  I kept on accidentally switching inputs on the E17 because of its dedicated input button which, unfortunately, sits right underneath the rubber band.  I know, I know: there's a lock switch on the E17 for that reason.  But then, if you want to change the volume, you have to unlock, change, and then lock again.  
   
  For portable use, nothing beats a dedicated volume knob.


----------



## Evshrug

I love my iPod Video 5.5G!
It's starting to struggle a bit though these days... what's the Tarkan mod?


----------



## Tehol

I agree that the iPod video goes well with the e12. I had one purchased years ago running with salvaged parts to keep it going but by now it's more than ready to be put out to pasture. Fortunately the x3 finally came out which sounds beautiful with the e12.


----------



## Evshrug

I think mine could use a fresh battery... But it is having occasional system issues, I think the harddisk drive may be half a year from wearing out. It's a sad face... It could just be because my whole library fit on it and not my Touch, but over years of use it seems like the song shuffle on my iPod picked a more entertaining song list and more interesting transitions. No evidence for that other than years of road trips.


----------



## howdy

which amp do you mainly prefer. I have a ipod classic and i had the e17 then ended uo selling it which i regret, Now im looking for another one but only between the e17 and the e12. which one is the overall best for all catagories ie; seperation bass trebele' the hole spectrem. Anyone fell free to give input.Im not going to use the dac on the e 17 but like the seperate bass and trebele.
  Quote: 





jazzman7 said:


> The volume knob on the E12 is great.
> 
> I have the E12 and the E17.  The E12 pairs well with my iPod Video 5.5G.  They are attached using a single Fiio rubber band, nothing is covered up on either device by the band, and the dimensions of each are almost the same.  But the E12 is a little heaver than the E17 -- about 40% heavier, and my iPod is now very light after the Tarkan mod.   So, over the weekend I went "back" to the iPod/E17 pairing to see how it works.
> 
> ...


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





howdy said:


> which amp do you mainly prefer. I have a ipod classic and i had the e17 then ended uo selling it which i regret, Now im looking for another one but only between the e17 and the e12. which one is the overall best for all catagories ie; seperation bass trebele' the hole spectrem. Anyone fell free to give input.Im not going to use the dac on the e 17 but like the seperate bass and trebele.


 
  I mean... the e12 is a better amp, and the e17 allows the treble/bass EQ. I always say buy an amp for the amp quality, not for EQ-ing. I'm happy enough using a LOD (like FiiO's L11) to send audio to my E12, and then I can change the EQ more by using the iPod presets anyway (because they can also affect the mids). I've thought about getting the E07k a few times, because it also does those treble/ bass adjustments of the e17 and I think has the same DAC inside, just send the line-out to my other amps, but... I don't need a portable DAC that doesn't connect to my iPod.


----------



## jazzman7

I agree with Evshrug if you only use your amp for music.  For movies, the bass and treble controls on the E17 are useful, and I would pick the E17 over the E12 if you were movie-watching with it too.  I find the E17 pairs well with a small tablet for that reason.
   
  And on the E07K, I have not heard it, but I think the controls on the side make the E07K a little better ergonomically than the E17.  If there is some way for you to try the E17 and E07K, you can see which is better for you in their button layout.  The amp is better on the E17, but I think it might be hard to tell the difference, even with IEMs (both have <1 ohm output impedance).


----------



## rawrster

I picked up the E12 yesterday at B&H. It's a bit bigger than what I would like but still works well. I do have one question however. Does the amp have to be turned on for it to charge? The led under the battery looking symbol is a constant red when it's off but when I powered it off it started blinking red. The product page says blinking fast means fast charging so I'm guessing it has to be on?


----------



## Vidmaven

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> I picked up the E12 yesterday at B&H. It's a bit bigger than what I would like but still works well. I do have one question however. Does the amp have to be turned on for it to charge? The led under the battery looking symbol is a constant red when it's off but when I powered it off it started blinking red. The product page says blinking fast means fast charging so I'm guessing it has to be on?


 
  Definitely doesn't need to be on when charging.


----------



## uopjo6

Hi all, Hi Panda Man,
  
 Biggest n00b ever and I've been going through a lot of threads regarding FiiO and Panda Man's reviews. After going through a pile of pages I noticed not much has been mentioned about specific IEM's that go with portable DAC/Amps. Or maybe I might of missed it when I skimmed through a few pages....

 I was hoping someone could help me on this simple question. I basically use an old iPhone 4 mainly for music because I'm stuck with iTunes, or borrow a iPod Classic. I currently use Shure 535's. 
 I've been going through reviews checking to see which might suit me most and the E12 popped up. I limited myself to consider only a portable Amp (no DAC). With a combo of iPod Classic (or iP4) + Shure 535's, will E12 be a solid choice?

 I like being able to set Bass / Treble with the E17 but I won't be using the DAC much. I'm simply looking for an amp that could drive the bass a bit better (it's pretty balanced on the 535, but a bit shy so I want the extra punch with some Metal music). EQ's on the device are not cutting it for me too muffled... apart from loudness and a bit of punch a bit more clarity is welcome.. (am I asking for too much from such a bang for buck product?)

 Will the Shure 535's work fine with the E12 and should I also consider the E17 with a DAC i won't use? 
  
 Thanks in advance! 

 **ps - Panda Man mentioned some IEM's have noise with FiiO amps, I am hoping this would not be the case with Shure 535's.


----------



## bowei006

uopjo6 said:


> Hi all, Hi Panda Man,
> 
> Biggest n00b ever and I've been going through a lot of threads regarding FiiO and Panda Man's reviews. After going through a pile of pages I noticed not much has been mentioned about specific IEM's that go with portable DAC/Amps. Or maybe I might of missed it when I skimmed through a few pages....
> 
> ...


 
  
 'Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
  
 For, $120, I may say to look at used ALO's, Leckerton's, and possibly Ray Samuel's. The E12 is FiiO's best unit out in terms of sound right now in how it goes for clarity and neutrality while still holding on to the fun parts. But its main selling points beside that are its huge amping power. IEM's don't need all that much power
  
 So it may be better to look at used amps from companies that prioritieze 'sound' over power. 
  
 The E12 only has a bass EQ.
  
 If you want an EQ, download a EQ app for the iPhone, Denon Audio, and other apps are very popular amongst audio's as  music library and EQ. Buying an E17 just for that isn't very economical.
  
 IEM's with low impedance will have noise.


----------



## JohnSantana

So how does it compares with the Fiio E11 ?


----------



## bowei006

johnsantana said:


> So how does it compares with the Fiio E11 ?


 
  
 If you read the comparison section of my review on page 1, post #1, you will see it. 
  
 But here it is:


> *FiiO E12 and FiiO E11*
> The highs of the FiiO E11 are more harsh than the E12. They don’t hold as well. The separation of the E11 is also considerably less than the E12. Mid instruments and vocals are more congested and scrunched up. The vocals of the E11 are more forward than the mids, but the mids of the E11 are not very smooth. The lows of the E12 are also much tighter than the looser ones of the E11.
> The E11 boasts of a more fun sound with a nice bass response to go with the tracks. However its vocals and highs ultimately fail the E11 in being up to par with the E12. But of course, the E12 isn’t a replacement for the E11. The E12 is the flagship series.


----------



## KASKOMAN

HI GUYS! I HAVE A CUESTION ABOUT HEADPHONES AMPS.  I WILL LIKE TO KNOW IF THERES A HEADPHONE AMP THAT AMPLIFIEDS THE CALLS TOO.. I HAVE THE E11 FIIO AND IT ONLY AMPLIFIEDS THE MUSIC FROM MY PHONE NOT THE CALLS. CAN SOMEBODY RECOMENT ANY HEADPHONE AMP THA NOT ONLY AMPLIFEDS THE MUSIC IN UR CEL PHONE BUT THE CALLS TOO..
 THANK U.
 KASKOMAN


----------



## bowei006

kaskoman said:


> HI GUYS! I HAVE A CUESTION ABOUT HEADPHONES AMPS.  I WILL LIKE TO KNOW IF THERES A HEADPHONE AMP THAT AMPLIFIEDS THE CALLS TOO.. I HAVE THE E11 FIIO AND IT ONLY AMPLIFIEDS THE MUSIC FROM MY PHONE NOT THE CALLS. CAN SOMEBODY RECOMENT ANY HEADPHONE AMP THA NOT ONLY AMPLIFEDS THE MUSIC IN UR CEL PHONE BUT THE CALLS TOO..
> THANK U.
> KASKOMAN


 
  
*IT AMPLIFIES THE CALLS TOO. YOU JUST AREN'T NOTICING IT PROBABLY? IF THE CALLS ARE COMMING OUT OF THE PHONE FROM THE HEADPHONE JACK, AND YOU ARE USING A HEADPHONE WITH THE E11, THE CALLS SHOULD BE AMPLIFIED AS WELL*


----------



## KASKOMAN

THNX PANDA MAN.. ILL TRY AGAIN


----------



## Evshrug

bowei006 said:


> *IT AMPLIFIES THE CALLS TOO. YOU JUST AREN'T NOTICING IT PROBABLY? IF THE CALLS ARE COMMING OUT OF THE PHONE FROM THE HEADPHONE JACK, AND YOU ARE USING A HEADPHONE WITH THE E11, THE CALLS SHOULD BE AMPLIFIED AS WELL*



*DON'T MAKE FUN, MAYBE HIS CAPS LOCK KEY IS BROKEN! OR MAYBE, HE'S JUST A REALLY PASSIONATE GUY!*


KASKOMAN,
The calls ought to be amplified by the E11, but I don't think the mic signal will be able to pass through the E11 back to the phone 
I could be wrong though, or you could kludge together a series of y-split adapters to direct the mic signal around the amp. All I know is, I tried to amp my Xbox gaming mic with my FiiO E5, and it didn't make sound at all.


----------



## bowei006

evshrug said:


> *DON'T MAKE FUN, MAYBE HIS CAPS LOCK KEY IS BROKEN! OR MAYBE, HE'S JUST A REALLY PASSIONATE GUY!*
> 
> 
> KASKOMAN,
> ...


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/638910/fiio-e07k-andes-review-and-help-thread/945#post_9779292
 Nah, I don't think so
  
 Either way, I'm not making fun of him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I'm just bored and it looked fun to do.


----------



## JohnSantana

bowei006 said:


> If you read the comparison section of my review on page 1, post #1, you will see it.
> 
> But here it is:




Cool, thanks for the clarification man, I just bought Fiio E12 right after i rad your review despite my Fiio E11 still working since last year I bought it.

Therefore, for the high bass and techno music and on the go I'm using Fiio E11 while at home with my HifiMan HE-500 I'm using Fiio E12 to listen to music with vocal.


----------



## Tehol

*uopjo6*
  
 FWIW I have read about some people experiencing EMI while using the e12 to power IEMs but so far I've not heard any using TF10, H200 and eQ5 from the e12 paired with an iPod video, HTC 8X or Fiio X3


----------



## Evshrug

bowei006 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/638910/fiio-e07k-andes-review-and-help-thread/945#post_9779292
> Nah, I don't think so
> 
> Either way, I'm not making fun of him :rolleyes: , I'm just bored and it looked fun to do.



And I made my caps even bigger to be even sillier 
I would've made the font pink if I'd remembered the BBC code for it on my iPad   
I guess his caps lock really is just stuck on? 




johnsantana said:


> Cool, thanks for the clarification man, I just bought Fiio E12 right after i rad your review despite my Fiio E11 still working since last year I bought it.
> 
> Therefore, for the high bass and techno music and on the go I'm using Fiio E11 while at home with my HifiMan HE-500 I'm using Fiio E12 to listen to music with vocal.



Hmm, wow, the HE-500 planar magnetic is supposed to be one of those super power-hungry headphones, it'll be interesting to get your impressions if it's got enough power for you.


----------



## bowei006

Probably...or he just wants his post to be more visible...


----------



## Evshrug

I mean, I've got stereo explosions and car stunts in my avatar pic, and yours is ridiculously cute.


----------



## bowei006

I never really took a good look at your avatar, but now I see it


----------



## Evshrug

I'll find and post a bigger version tomorrow, it was actually a cool chance capture of perfect timing during a Disney World stunt show. Their "instant" replay showed the car busting out a window and jumping over barrels that explode behind it, but my pic caught the explosions going off right next to the car. I made it my avatar because Chicolom was saying my former avatar wasn't exciting enough, and should have more explosions  'Course, it's too small as an avatar to really see what's going on...

Meanwhiles, here's a placeholder pic:


----------



## JohnSantana

evshrug said:


> And I made my caps even bigger to be even sillier
> I would've made the font pink if I'd remembered the BBC code for it on my iPad
> I guess his caps lock really is just stuck on?
> Hmm, wow, the HE-500 planar magnetic is supposed to be one of those super power-hungry headphones, it'll be interesting to get your impressions if it's got enough power for you.




I'll try that tonight as I'm currently in the office listening to the music from my iPhone 5 with Fiio E12 to my Westone W4R 

Soundstage sound bigger and bass is more round not harsh.


----------



## JohnSantana

tehol said:


> *uopjo6*
> 
> FWIW I have read about some people experiencing EMI while using the e12 to power IEMs but so far I've not heard any using TF10, H200 and eQ5 from the e12 paired with an iPod video, HTC 8X or Fiio X3




Confirmed, I'm using the stock LOD cable between my iPhone 5, and to the newly opened Fiio E12 to power my Westone 4R, the EMI is quite annoying in the quiet music or between the track changes.

The culprit was the iphone and the charging cable (either charging your iPhone or the E12) for sure.

the work around is to keep the phone and Fiio E12* separate side* by side not stack-em.


----------



## Evshrug

I just don't listen while either device is charging, presents whole other noise issues not related to cellular radio interference.


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> 'Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
> 
> For, $120, I may say to look at used ALO's, Leckerton's, and possibly Ray Samuel's. The E12 is FiiO's best unit out in terms of sound right now in how it goes for clarity and neutrality while still holding on to the fun parts. But its main selling points beside that are its huge amping power. IEM's don't need all that much power
> 
> ...




I'm not too comfortable calling you Panda-Man.

I'd prefer to call you Secret Agent 006.

Unless Panda-Man refers to your Super Powers?
Do you have Super Powers?


----------



## bowei006

Super Panda powers


----------



## waynes world

evshrug said:


> I mean, I've got stereo explosions and car stunts in my avatar pic, and yours is ridiculously cute.


 
  
 Thank you. Thank you very much!


----------



## Evshrug

bowei006 said:


> Super Panda powers



Lol, I think the plaid really sets it off. He/she is super in his/her mind, that's powerful enough for me ^_^



waynes world said:


> Thank you. Thank you very much!



Well... your avatar is cute in the same way Japanese "No" theater is cute, but if you think that's cute then your blue guy falls into that same category of "look." Power to ya bro! *fist bump*
*comes away with a chalky blue powder on fist, kinda weirded out*


----------



## waynes world

evshrug said:


> Well... your avatar is cute in the same way Japanese "No" theater is cute, but if you think that's cute then your blue guy falls into that same category of "look." Power to ya bro! *fist bump*


 
  
 Lol! It's the cover art to Porcupine Tree's In Abstentia album. Awesome band. But no, not a cute avatar!


----------



## Evshrug

Cool!
Lol, head-Fi hid part of my reply to you, they must've thought I was typing code or something. Did you see it in the editor when you quoted me? I'll edit to "reveal" it.


----------



## waynes world

Nope, sadly didn't see it!


----------



## bowei006

Wow, this thread got a few posts!


----------



## Evshrug

Yup. Chris J started it, but you helped avec the Panda-Man. Does whatever a panda man can. Sorry, I don't have anything to add to your review, other than I still have my E12, right now I prefer it over my tube amp with my new K712, which was vice-Versa with the Q701, oddly.


----------



## Chris J

evshrug said:


> Lol, I think the plaid really sets it off. He/she is super in his/her mind, that's powerful enough for me ^_^
> Well... your avatar is cute in the same way Japanese "No" theater is cute, but if you think that's cute then your blue guy falls into that same category of "look." Power to ya bro! *fist bump*
> *comes away with a chalky blue powder on fist, kinda weirded out*




Yes, the plaid really sets it off!

Faster than a speeding bullet!
More powerful than a locomotive?
Look!
Up in the sky!
It's Panda-man!


This is from a guy with a polar bear for an avatar.........


----------



## Evshrug

Panda-man vs Polar-Sapien; they could have been brothers, but they have been set on a collision course by a force unknown, with nefarious intent. Will this be the end of our Heros? Find out on next week's episode of Head-Fi, "The Kid Earpads are Coming Off!"


----------



## pixelsphotopro

I've just order a FIIO E12 this morning to use with my iPod Classic, I did try the E07K and finally use it as my sound card on my desktop


----------



## bowei006

pixelsphotopro said:


> I've just order a FIIO E12 this morning to use with my iPod Classic, I did try the E07K and finally use it as my sound card on my desktop


 
  
 Nice!
  
 Some buy E12's for the small Sandisks which is a bit weird, but the iPod Clasics size and E12 fits together quite well.


----------



## slayerx44

I just got my E12 , but it came with a neoprene style cover with a synthetic leather Velcro latch. Was it supposed to come in the vevety black and brown fabric cover? 

Here's a pic 

Did I miss out on some packaging change or something? Checked and it's a genuine product on fiio's website.


----------



## bowei006

slayerx44 said:


> I just got my E12 , but it came with a neoprene style cover with a synthetic leather Velcro latch. Was it supposed to come in the vevety black and brown fabric cover?
> 
> Here's a pic
> 
> Did I miss out on some packaging change or something? Checked and it's a genuine product on fiio's website.


That is new.

The others came in a black cloth baggy.

You could ask fiio support staff. I haven't heard of any changes. Their support email is on fiio website.


----------



## Hijodelbrx

I just got an E12 a few weeks ago. Prior to that I was simply listening to my UE TF10's (that I've only owned for a few months) straight out of an Ipod 5.5. I was very pleased with the sound quality but....I got the 'itch'. Long story short, got the E12 (AND the L9/LOD) am amazed by the increase in sound quality. The difference was made crystal clear recently. I was out and hadn't charged the E12 since I 1st got it, sure enough, she ran outta gas. So I simply plugged my TF10's directly into the 'pod, after all, this is the original combo I was SO happy with before, it should still satisfy me, right? WRONG!!! I couldn't believe how disappointing the sound seemed to me now. Sounded anemic, thin, weak....couldn't wait to get home and re-charge the E12! I've read opinions that this is 'too much' amp to simply use with IEM's. Couldn't disagree more!


----------



## howdy

bowei006 said:


> That is new.
> 
> The others came in a black cloth baggy.
> 
> You could ask fiio support staff. I haven't heard of any changes. Their support email is on fiio website.



Mine also came in a jet black neoprene case with Velcro. I'm sure this is correct as I bought mine from an authorized reseller. It works well with this case on strapped to the iPod classic.


----------



## bowei006

-deleted-


----------



## howdy

Deleted.


----------



## bowei006

howdy said:


>


 
 Head-Fi was screwing up that night and I had many tabs open. That was posted to the wrong thread.


----------



## waynes world

bowei006 said:


> *How do I switch Crossfeed on or change the gain?:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Love my E12, but I feel like bitching just a bit... the "need to use a pen" requirement is silly and inconvenient. Maybe there's a good reason why it is this way, but I'm not feeling it.


----------



## bowei006

waynes world said:


> Love my E12, but I feel like bitching just a bit... the "need to use a pen" requirement is silly and inconvenient. Maybe there's a good reason why it is this way, but I'm not feeling it.


 
 Send a letter to FiiO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 You have a concern, let a company know.


----------



## JackRabbitSlims

Had an E12 on Trial for 7 days...which expires tomorrow....I'm going to buy it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mine also came with the neoprene bag / pouch with velcro strap on top....ordered from the NZ supplier  / distributor so, all good there.
  
 The only complaint I have is with the build / finish quality of my Amp..the end plates do not sit even or flush on the device, it looks like they have been attached crooked....you have have to look closely to see this, not a biggie, but thought I would mention it....anyone else have this??
  
 Have been paring it with my iPod Classic and UERM's......loving it!!
 Ordered some Beyerdynamic DT1350's from Amazon 2 days ago, so can't wait to hear how they sound with the E12


----------



## slayerx44

I know what you mean, it seems that the cover with the Fiio word on it is convex , slightly bent towards the sides while the middle it's perfect.


----------



## JackRabbitSlims

Yes...it's not a very tidy / clean finish at all.....but I'm not going to sweat the small stuff....not at that price point anyway.
  
 enjoy your E12


----------



## howdy

I’ve came to the realization that this is just too powerful for my needs and will be posting it for sale for something more suitable for my setups.


----------



## bowei006

It indeed does have quite the power. 
  
 Well from your profile, you seem to own already quite the FiiO's! 
  
 Good luck


----------



## howdy

bowei006 said:


> It indeed does have quite the power.
> 
> Well from your profile, you seem to own already quite the FiiO's!
> 
> Good luck



Thanks, Fiio makes great products its just this has just been sitting around and as the the norm for most headfiers it is time to sell to fund something different. It truly does have great sound quality but unless I plan to buy some planers I have no use for it.


----------



## Chris J

howdy said:


> Thanks, Fiio makes great products its just this has just been sitting around and as the the norm for most headfiers it is time to sell to fund something different. It truly does have great sound quality but unless I plan to buy some planers I have no use for it.


 
  
 Hang onto it.
 You never know, you may get the urge to pick up a pair of 600 Ohm headphones.


----------



## howdy

chris j said:


> Hang onto it.
> You never know, you may get the urge to pick up a pair of 600 Ohm headphones.  :wink_face:



I was thinking that, I was looking at the Beyerdynamic either 980 or 880 600 ohm headphones. I may keep it and by the C&C BH as well. I've always wanted it, I have the Digizoid z02.3 as well and do not care for it.


----------



## tuna47

Will e12 power the HE 500s


----------



## howdy

tuna47 said:


> Will e12 power the HE 500s



I read on here that it has no problems powering planar headphones like the one mentioned.


----------



## Chris J

tuna47 said:


> Will e12 power the HE 500s




It has enough power to drive those 'phones.


----------



## jazzman7

The E12 can drive the Fostex T50RP even when I apply EQ, which drops the output volume even more due to a -10dB chosen precut. You should have plenty of gain to play with.


----------



## tuna47

Thanks need a portable for them


----------



## gabler

should I buy an iPod Classic + FiiO E12 or just a FiiO x3 and sd card? Headphones: k712 pro and x11i - i know the x3 option excludes x11i buttons, but i look for quality over convenience.

 thanks in advance!


----------



## bowei006

iPC+E12=best sound quality and UI usability but huge costs, and less potentital storage than X3 depending on model(some are indeed 120GB, but those are quite expensive). ($250-$500 depending on region and new/used status of the times)
 X3 you get less SQ but a lot cheaper($250 for X3 with 64GB mSD) and less UI usability, but a lot more physically usable and all in one
  
  
 Welcome to head- fi and sorry about your poor wallet!


----------



## howdy

bowei006 said:


> iPC+E12=best sound quality and UI usability but huge costs, and less potentital storage than X3. ($300-$400 depending on region and new/used status of the times)
> X3 you get less SQ but a lot cheaper($250 for X3 with 64GB mSD) and less UI usability, but a lot more physically usable and all in one



Panda you forgot to mention one important part for newbies, "welcome to headfi, sorry about your wallet"!


----------



## bowei006

howdy said:


> Panda you forgot to mention one important part for newbies, "welcome to headfi, sorry about your wallet"!


 
 huh? *checkes post count*....... ***** 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@gabler 
 "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your poor poor wallet"


----------



## gabler

Thanks, guys! haha, indeed poor wallet is a problem here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 so the iPod is not the 7G! (i mean, the 7G only has only the 160gb option). A 120gb one probably is an older version, I guess. Also, I have an iPod touch 5th gen (meh), forgot to mention it! But since the upgrade  touch + a monster inspiration + s4i to the ""audiophiles"" x11i + akg I feel their potential wasted! All I wanted upgrading was a better sounding, not the inspiration still being considerable to me even having new precious friends to burn. Focusing on the long-term benefits (I mean, its a christmas investment), the x3 is still a good option? The E12 can connect to both iPods (I'm retiring the touch of it audio purpose anyway, maybe the E12 can give it a hope).. also, can I connect the E12 connect to computers? (a macbook, for example?) 

 Newbie questions, but answers are valuable! Thanks again!


----------



## howdy

gabler said:


> Thanks, guys! haha, indeed poor wallet is a problem here
> 
> 
> so the iPod is not the 7G! (i mean, the 7G only has only the 160gb option). A 120gb one probably is an older version, I guess. Also, I have an iPod touch 5th gen (meh), forgot to mention it! But since the upgrade  touch + a monster inspiration + s4i to the ""audiophiles"" x11i + akg I feel their potential wasted! All I wanted upgrading was a better sounding, not the inspiration still being considerable to me even having new precious friends to burn. Focusing on the long-term benefits (I mean, its a christmas investment), the x3 is still a good option? The E12 can connect to both iPods (I'm retiring the touch of it audio purpose anyway, maybe the E12 can give it a hope).. also, can I connect the E12 connect to computers? (a macbook, for example?)
> ...



It sounds like you may want the Fiio e17 from what I keep reading. The E12 is just a amp, the E17 is an amp/dac and personally to me sounds better with the iPod. The E17 has plenty of power and you can connect it to your computer and use the dac function. Both are close in price with the E17 being just 20 dollars more.


----------



## gabler

So I can say the e17 + an iPod classic (for lossless stuff storage) worth, right? Should I also care to have an E09K? (I dunno it purpose, but looks like a very well rated combo - on amazon - and comparing, similar cost of a x3). My poor touch (64g) is already full of m4a and mp3s and since I am now only including FLACs in the library it has only 7 gigs free now. Change to a Classic is interesting, but if the e17 saves the touch, I can stay with a 60gb library with the current music I am listening more. Plus, I listen more at home, anyway - that is why the computer question. Feeling close to the best option I can have! yay!


----------



## howdy

gabler said:


> So I can say the e17 + an iPod classic (for lossless stuff storage) worth, right? Should I also care to have an E09K? (I dunno it purpose, but looks like a very well rated combo - on amazon - and comparing, similar cost of a x3). My poor touch (64g) is already full of m4a and mp3s and since I am now only including FLACs in the library it has only 7 gigs free now. Change to a Classic is interesting, but if the e17 saves the touch, I can stay with a 60gb library with the current music I am listening more. Plus, I listen more at home, anyway - that is why the computer question. Feeling close to the best option I can have! yay!



That is a great combo the E09k has more than enough power. If it were me in this predicament I would do the Fiio E17/09 combo.


----------



## VortexBlast

Anyone tried to pair the HE-500 to a Fiio E12?
 I'm asking this because I find the amp section of my HP-P1 is definitively lacking power for my HE-500 and also my modded T50RP which I managed to make it quite hard to drive.
 I'm not planning to use it for the HE-500, I've got my Schiit Lyr (and possibly in the future, the Modi) for that, but for my T50RPs since I use them exclusively for portable use.
 If the E12 can drive the HE-500 with authority then it will be able to drive my T50RP with no problem and it will be a nice addition to replace the amp section of the HP-P1.


----------



## tuna47

I have the same question


----------



## bowei006

I would recommend using the search function on this page and Google
  
 From my results, I have found that most that have them
http://www.head-fi.org/t/650683/fiio-e12-review/240#post_9934224
  
 Say there is enough power. Not sure about SQ with them though


----------



## noisybeat

I've used etymotic er4s with the e12 and they work really well together. There's enough power to produce tight and punchy sound, although the soundstage is very limited, which too m is not an issue. I do like the sound being upfront and intimate but may be that's just me?


----------



## Nirvana1000

I picked up my E12 on Friday at the Headphone Shop on Yonge St in Toronto.I also got a great deal on used Beyerdynamic DT770/250 ohm.Thanks to Charles who runs the store.Well i'm enjoying both the headphones and amp quite a bit.Especially when they sound like they were made for each other.No problem with the E12 driving the DT770/250 ohm at all with plenty juice in reserve.Great clean sound.Sound stage is big enough for me.Bass is there and not requiring boost most of the time.Overall a powerful and balanced sound without harsh highs.The amp seems to have the presence of a DAC since it cleans up most sources as well as amplifying. Excellent performance considering the price.The only thing I wish it had was tone control.


----------



## Chris J

nirvana1000 said:


> I picked up my E12 on Friday at the Headphone Shop on Yonge St in Toronto.I also got a great deal on used Beyerdynamic DT770/250 ohm.Thanks to Charles who runs the store.Well i'm enjoying both the headphones and amp quite a bit.Especially when they sound like they were made for each other.No problem with the E12 driving the DT770/250 ohm at all with plenty juice in reserve.Great clean sound.Sound stage is big enough for me.Bass is there and not requiring boost most of the time.Overall a powerful and balanced sound without harsh highs.The amp seems to have the presence of a DAC since it cleans up most sources as well as amplifying. Excellent performance considering the price.The only thing I wish it had was tone control.


 
  
 Hey, I picked up my E12 from The Headphone Shop too!
 The E12 will also easily drive 600 Ohm Beyers!
 Do you ever use the Bass Boost switch?


----------



## Nirvana1000

chris j said:


> Hey, I picked up my E12 from The Headphone Shop too!
> The E12 will also easily drive 600 Ohm Beyers!
> Do you ever use the Bass Boost switch?


 
 Yes whenever I want the extra bass extension or feel it's needed.My  Sennheiser HD580 at 300 ohm are the most demanding and the E12 powers them easily.


----------



## Hijodelbrx

I find the bass boost to be subtle, more of a sub-bass boost.  I listen to a very wide set of genres.  Whether I'm Listening to my TF10's or my HD600's I never turn off the bass boost.  When I do I find myself immediately missing it!


----------



## waynes world

hijodelbrx said:


> I find the bass boost to be subtle, more of a sub-bass boost.  I listen to a very wide set of genres.  Whether I'm Listening to my TF10's or my HD600's *I never turn off the bass boost. * When I do I find myself immediately missing it!


 
  
 +1. I've crazy glued mine on


----------



## Chris J

nirvana1000 said:


> Yes whenever I want the extra bass extension or feel it's needed.My  Sennheiser HD580 at 300 ohm are the most demanding and the E12 powers them easily.


 
  
 I often turn Bass Boost ON when I'm using my Q701s.
 I never turn it ON with my 600 Ohm DT880s.


----------



## Tehol

hijodelbrx said:


> I find the bass boost to be subtle, more of a sub-bass boost.  I listen to a very wide set of genres.  Whether I'm Listening to my TF10's or my HD600's I never turn off the bass boost.  When I do I find myself immediately missing it!


 
  
 Interesting.  I occasionally flip mine on only to remind myself why I keep it off - and I have a V1 (for the most part anyway).  Anyone else find that different tips change how you use this function?  I do use it more often if I'm using wider bore tips on the H200; if I have the stock black I really never use bass boost with those IEMs.


----------



## Steve58

My amp came without an instruction manual. When I charge the unit the red led "pulses" what is the state of the light when it is fully charged....blinking........solid? Interesting the fiio site does not have a manual on this model.
  
  
 Cheers


----------



## Hijodelbrx

While it's charging it blinks. When fully charged it's solid (stops blinking).


----------



## howdy

steve58 said:


> My amp came without an instruction manual. When I charge the unit the red led "pulses" what is the state of the light when it is fully charged....blinking........solid? Interesting the fiio site does not have a manual on this model.
> 
> 
> Cheers


 
If you go to the Fiio website and look under the E12 it shows all that info you need to know about the amp including the charging system and what blinking vs solid. That's weird yours did not come with a manual.


----------



## JohnSantana

Hi All,

Does the interconnect between the source and the Fiio E12 really makes any difference at all ?
I'm using the normal stock cable that comes within the box.


----------



## bowei006

johnsantana said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Does the interconnect between the source and the Fiio E12 really makes any difference at all ?
> I'm using the normal stock cable that comes within the box.


 
 It does if you can hear it and am willing to pay for it.
  
 It also depends on if it matters to you on the go. 
  
 Some can hear it, but don't care for it with on the go gear of price range X 
  
 Some are willing to pay for it just for knowing it has improvements
  
 etc etc
  
 But yes, analog cables do make differences. They aren't night and day for most users that buy amps/units at this price range though as it does take a bit of practice to know what to listen for etc.


----------



## Steve58

Hi John the stock item out of the box is fine. That fiio interconnect is sold as a separate item as a quality interconnect accessory and has the specs: Pure PCOCC-A Copper Wiring and a TPE Sheath with gold plated connectors 
I do not think the engineers who designed the amp, and also the interconnect would supply an inferior interconect. It makes no sense at all to make their amp sound less than its potential.  I have good looking (expensive) interconnect between my fiio e12 and astell&Kern. But only cause it looks good. Can I tell the difference in sound...well no, not at all.


----------



## Androb

I ordered one of these yesterday and it got sent this morning... im hoping hoping Hoping!! it will arrive today  Seems like a fun little toy


----------



## JohnSantana

androb said:


> I ordered one of these yesterday and it got sent this morning... im hoping hoping Hoping!! it will arrive today  Seems like a fun little toy


which one  I'm curious to know ?


----------



## JohnSantana

steve58 said:


> Hi John the stock item out of the box is fine. That fiio interconnect is sold as a separate item as a quality interconnect accessory and has the specs: Pure PCOCC-A Copper Wiring and a TPE Sheath with gold plated connectors
> 
> 
> I do not think the
> engineers who designed the amp, and also the interconnect would supply an inferior interconect. It makes no sense at all to make their amp sound less than its potential.  I have good looking (expensive) interconnect between my fiio e12 and astell&Kern. But only cause it looks good. Can I tell the difference in sound...well no, not at all.







bowei006 said:


> It does if you can hear it and am willing to pay for it.
> 
> It also depends on if it matters to you on the go.
> 
> ...




Yes man, that does make sense. At the moment I'm using the stock interconnect supplied by Fiio due to my iPhone 5 as the source.


----------



## Androb

johnsantana said:


> which one  I'm curious to know ?



The e12


----------



## Steve58

johnsantana said:


> Yes man, that does make sense. At the moment I'm using the stock interconnect supplied by Fiio due to my iPhone 5 as the source.


 
 Hi John, sorry I did not know you were connecting to an iphone. That is a different story where a specific fiio L1 LOD interconnect would be better as it bypasses the amp section of the iphone and amps the inbuilt iphone DAC. I am not an expert on I phones so guidence from an Iphone person would be of more assistance. You can pay $8 or $79 ( crazy BS)
  
http://store.treoo.com/main/shop-by-type/accessories/audio-cables/3-5mm-jack-interconnect-cables.html
  
 Cheers


----------



## Dima202

I solved my e12 usb noise by connecting to a/c usb source.


----------



## sanfordm

Yeah that'll do the trick.  I still plug it into my Mac to charge and just live with it.  I can't hear the line noise with music playing.


----------



## PeterCheng

Wanna ask something... I'm using pfe112 now, its an iem and has 32 ohms. I dont really need much amplification with my iPod, I just want clearer sounding with a lod. So would buying this be considered a 'waste' when pairing up to iems?


----------



## Chris J

petercheng said:


> Wanna ask something... I'm using pfe112 now, its an iem and has 32 ohms. I dont really need much amplification with my iPod, I just want clearer sounding with a lod. So would buying this be considered a 'waste' when pairing up to iems?




IEMs can be difficult.
Perhaps someone can help us out here, but I find that some of my head amp are too noisy for my Shure IEMs.
But I'm certainly NOT an expert on IEMs.


----------



## jazzman7

I use an E12 to tame the Sony XBA-4, which dips down below 10 ohms impedance at some frequencies.  The low output impedance and low distortion is what I need as the extra wattage is overkill.  The E12 definitely makes a difference due to the complex impedance curve of the XBA-4. 
  
 I have used the E12 with other IEMS (VSonic GR07 BE is the other high-fidelity one I own, but I've tried lower-end models too), and I've never had problems with hiss at the E12's low gain setting.  I don't think you'd ever need the high gain setting of the E12 unless you are driving Sennheisers with 300+ ohms impedance or inefficient planars like the T50RP.


----------



## PeterCheng

chris j said:


> IEMs can be difficult.
> Perhaps someone can help us out here, but I find that some of my head amp are too noisy for my Shure IEMs.
> But I'm certainly NOT an expert on IEMs.




Thanks, I know its difficult since iems actually dont need much power to 'drive'. Yes, Ive heard so much on sensitive iems such as SE425 and SE535 have problem on hissing


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

This is one of the only pics I can find of the bass boosts curve. Is this accurate?  Thanks in advance!


----------



## Rob49

I bought an E12 yesterday. I'm thrilled with it, but could someone confirm, how long continuous play would be expected to last, before needing to charge, please ?
 I haven't exactly timed it, but I'm finding that I need to charge after around 7-8hrs. Would this be the norm ?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

It's about 8.5- 9 hours for me.


----------



## sharkboyz19

heya,
  
          the louder you play it -- the sooner its going to need to be recharged--just sayin.


----------



## Rob49

sharkboyz19 said:


> heya,
> 
> the louder you play it -- the sooner its going to need to be recharged--just sayin.


 

 Is that true ? I better turn it down then ! lol Thanks for your reply's guys. I just wanted to check that I hadn't got a faulty amp.....it's a fantastic piece of kit, it's transformed my listening experience !!


----------



## tuna47

Have the e11 how much better is the e12


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

The bass boost switch was a source of annoyance for me but is is very well done. I'm a basshead so it reaches lower than my Cowon and lets the cans go deeper. That's a huge thing. The reason I thought I wouldn't like it is the reason I love it.
  
 I think it manipulates lower freq than the 11?


----------



## jjacq

Just got this amp. Does the job for my macbook air>O2>LCD-2 setup! <3 The instrument separation is just beautiful!


----------



## djelstak

http://cdn.head-fi.org/6/6a/900x900px-LL-6a28223b_PhotoJan1924832PM.jpeg
  
 hi all, what's the silver one component in the picture? 
  
  
  
 Thanks
  
  
 Fra


----------



## mjakopa

Edit: sorry posted to other thread instead.


----------



## PurpleAngel

djelstak said:


> http://cdn.head-fi.org/6/6a/900x900px-LL-6a28223b_PhotoJan1924832PM.jpeg
> 
> hi all, what's the silver one component in the picture?


 
  
 Maybe it's a DAC??


----------



## cel4145

purpleangel said:


> Maybe it's a DAC??




It's bowei006's rig setup. Said he put it together for fun one day (start reading here for several posts). Since that's an LOD cable coming out the iPhone, good bet it's just two amps hooked together to make it look big.


----------



## Sound Eq

how does the amp section of fiio e18 compare to fiio w12 in means of sound signature
  
 are they the same ?
  
 i have the fiio e18 and want to use it just as a headphone amp and i was wondering how it compares to the e12


----------



## Shogster

Does the E12 pairs well with the M50x?Should i go for it,or just get the E17?
 Really can't decide which one to get.All i read about the E12 and E17 are positive reviews.


----------



## Genjisleeps

Do the Sennheiser HD 650's go well with the Fiio e12's? I plan of buying the soon and making an Ipod setup.
  
 my plan is to do... Ipod Classic 160 GB Silver >>> Fiio L3 LOD>> Fiio e12 >>> the 3.5 adapter jack it comes with >>> Sennheiser HD 650
  
 I planned on buying other amps like the JDS Labs O2 + DAC but when I went to the Bass wiki I saw the Fiio e12 was really well with other headphones like the V-Moda M-100 and a JVC headphone.
  
 So anyway....Is the HD 650 good with the Fiio e12?


----------



## Androb

genjisleeps said:


> Do the Sennheiser HD 650's go well with the Fiio e12's? I plan of buying the soon and making an Ipod setup.
> 
> my plan is to do... Ipod Classic 160 GB Silver >>> Fiio L3 LOD>> Fiio e12 >>> the 3.5 adapter jack it comes with >>> Sennheiser HD 650
> 
> ...


 
 It can drive them pretty loud, but they are thin sounding so i'm allways using the bass boost. It is decent for a portable setup though. It's better though with easier to drive headphones like the w1000x!


----------



## bms44974

genjisleeps said:


> Do the Sennheiser HD 650's go well with the Fiio e12's? I plan of buying the soon and making an Ipod setup.
> 
> my plan is to do... Ipod Classic 160 GB Silver >>> Fiio L3 LOD>> Fiio e12 >>> the 3.5 adapter jack it comes with >>> Sennheiser HD 650
> 
> ...


 

 I was impressed with the E12 when driving my HD600's. As Androb noted, the bass boost provides a bit more depth, but I wouldn't characterize the SQ as "thin" without it (I'm not a basshead). I don't typically use my mobile amp with my not-so-mobile Sennheiser cans. I'm more inclined to use the E12 with my IEMs (Etymotic ER4s) and prefer the iFi iDAC with my HD600's for desktop use.


----------



## AN94Master

I use the x5 with the momentum. Will attaching an e12 make any noticeable difference?(I mainly listen to 24 bit FLAC). I was eyeing the e12 mainly because of the bass boost.


----------



## bms44974

an94master said:


> I use the x5 with the momentum. Will attaching an e12 make any noticeable difference?(I mainly listen to 24 bit FLAC). I was eyeing the e12 mainly because of the bass boost.


 
 You certainly don't need the E12 to power these 18 Ohm headphones and the 10-band equalizer in the X5 should easily be able to boost the bass for you. The on-off Bass boost in the E12 is accomplished in hardware so it is reported to have less effect on the overall fidelity and sound signature of the DAP, but with some tweaking the software EQ in the X5 may be able to compensate.
  
 Cheers... Brian


----------



## jay-w

Does anyone know of a LOD that will cable to the left unlike this one? I use the Fiio L3 but I'd prefer something with a lower profile.


----------



## BelialSeraph

jay-w said:


> Does anyone know of a LOD that will cable to the left unlike this one? I use the Fiio L3 but I'd prefer something with a lower profile.


 
 I have the same question too; the L9 somewhat blocks the volume pot, while the L3 is too lengthy. ALO Green Line LOD is short and also looks nice, but expensive...


----------



## nedaroth

I just received my X5 and E12 and i just want to make sure im not missing something before i send the E12 back.  It worked fine through a song and i stopped for dinner and when i came back to it it no longer worked. It has a full charge and the blue light is on.
 I also reset it, anything in settings on the X5 i may have missed?  Thanks for any ideas.


----------



## AN94Master

bms44974 said:


> You certainly don't need the E12 to power these 18 Ohm headphones and the 10-band equalizer in the X5 should easily be able to boost the bass for you. The on-off Bass boost in the E12 is accomplished in hardware so it is reported to have less effect on the overall fidelity and sound signature of the DAP, but with some tweaking the software EQ in the X5 may be able to compensate.
> 
> Cheers... Brian



The EQ is useless because it takes about 75 days to scroll through the 10 bands.The x5 certainly drives my headphones well but if the amp even slightly enhances the sound, i'll buy it.


----------



## Chris J

nedaroth said:


> I just received my X5 and E12 and i just want to make sure im not missing something before i send the E12 back.  It worked fine through a song and i stopped for dinner and when i came back to it it no longer worked. It has a full charge and the blue light is on.
> I also reset it, anything in settings on the X5 i may have missed?  Thanks for any ideas.




Looks like no one is answering!
Where's the E12 love? 

There should be no special E12 settings.
I assume you are using the Line Out on the X5?
This is the X5 output jack that is NOT affected by the volume control.


----------



## nedaroth

Chris thanks for your help, that was it i did not use lineout


----------



## Chris J

The E12 Police will kick down your door in the middle of the night and confiscate your E12! 

Seriously, good to hear it's working out for you.


----------



## Genjisleeps

Hey guys I got the Fiio e12 and the HS6 stacking kit. And something came up recently so I have to get a different headphone. I chose the JVC HA-SZ2000 from looking at the best bass headphone list. So now its Fiio X5 >>> HS6 LOD >>> Fiio e12 >>> JVC HA-SZ2000. This might be a nooby question but I showed my cousin the e12 today and he asked if i'm gonna need a DAC? From my research on the website I don't think I do. but he knew of head-fi too so I just want to be sure. Would I need a DAC?


----------



## Chris J

genjisleeps said:


> Hey guys I got the Fiio e12 and the HS6 stacking kit. And something came up recently so I have to get a different headphone. I chose the JVC HA-SZ2000 from looking at the best bass headphone list. So now its Fiio X5 >>> HS6 LOD >>> Fiio e12 >>> JVC HA-SZ2000. This might be a nooby question but I showed my cousin the e12 today and he asked if i'm gonna need a DAC? From my research on the website I don't think I do. but he knew of head-fi too so I just want to be sure. Would I need a DAC?




The DAC in the X5 is pretty damn good.
To answer your question, a separate DAC is not really required or needed! 

BTW, I own an X5, an E12 and the stacking kit too. It's a nice combo.


----------



## Genjisleeps

chris j said:


> The DAC in the X5 is pretty damn good.
> To answer your question, a separate DAC is not really required or needed!
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thats what I thought. thanks...


----------



## Hellkitchen

A question.. I thinking to buy one of these.. do you think it can be suitable for both HE 400 (high power needs at 32ohm) and Westone UM pro 30 (nearly 60 ohm impedance)?


----------



## HotIce

hellkitchen said:


> A question.. I thinking to buy one of these.. do you think it can be suitable for both HE 400 (high power needs at 32ohm) and Westone UM pro 30 (nearly 60 ohm impedance)?




880 mW @ 32 ohm is pretty good power figure.


----------



## Shawn71

FiiO's official AliExpress store......enjoy!

 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1473108?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email


----------



## HotIce

shawn71 said:


> FiiO's official AliExpress store......enjoy!
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1473108?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email


 
  
 Much better prices at BHPhotoVideo, coupled with very fast shipping, and no hassle returns.


----------



## Shawn71

Looks like some feed issues? not sure tho,but yeah thats way too high....:mad:


----------



## Genjisleeps

Hey guys I finally finished my portable setup with the e12 and I'm using the JVC HA-SZ2000. Its terrific, the sound is amazing and the bass is great. I'm planning on getting the Grado sr80e's in January. But what I'm wondering is what other headphones would you use with the fiio e12's.
  
 My setup is this: Fiio X5 > HS6 Line out > Fiio e12 > JVC HA-SZ2000. What other headphones would you use that would sound great and bass would be booming?


----------



## HotIce

The E12 frequency response (like pretty much all of the amps decently engineered) is flat as an arrow.
 I see you have the M50. More booming than those?


----------



## Genjisleeps

hotice said:


> The E12 frequency response (like pretty much all of the amps decently engineered) is flat as an arrow.
> I see you have the M50. More booming than those?


 
 I didn't notice it before because I play my headphones on my neck so I wont go deaf quicker. But when I put my m50's on there was definitely more booming than the JVC headphone. At first I thought the JVC had more boom around my neck than the m50. But when I put the m50 on my ears booming indefinitely.


----------



## tomase2

What's the Bass eq on these like compared to the kilimanjaro, can anyone advise me? thanks


----------



## HotIce

There is a bass boost switch, it works as it should, but I never used it as I do not like boosted bass.


----------



## Hijodelbrx

Different strokes for different folks!. I never turn the bass boost off on mine! It's not a gigantic change in the sound signature, just adds more body, weight, and slam/impact!!


----------



## waynes world

hijodelbrx said:


> Different strokes for different folks!. I never turn the bass boost off on mine! It's not a gigantic change in the sound signature, just adds more body, weight, and slam/impact!!




+1. Yup, there is no "bass boost off" switch on the e12 as far as Im concerned


----------



## Sound Eq

can someone please answer this , i have an e18 which i use just as an amp for my headphone and not as a dac, i was wondering which has more bass boost e12 or e18
  
 i hope someone can answer this
  
 also which fiio product is the best for bass music, and how does the bass also between fiio diy and fiio e12 compare


----------



## TrollDragon

These have the most bass for a portable amplifier.
  
 http://www.digizoid.com/


----------



## Hellkitchen

I've just bought mine from a local shop for 103€! Less than on internet!!!

I tried also the e11k and the e18 but I found the e12 to be better as amp! It has a forward presentation but the bass punch really hard with UM Pro 30! Really nice!!!!!!


----------



## FeedingNation

Can this be used on the PC? Like the output of the computer plug into the input, then plug my iem on the output?

Or is it better to buy a soundcard?


----------



## waynes world

feedingnation said:


> Can this be used on the PC? Like the output of the computer plug into the input, then plug my iem on the output?
> 
> Or is it better to buy a soundcard?




Usually much better SQ if you get a usb dac: PC -> dac -> e12 -> iem

Even a $20 ele dac or a $45 hifimediy sabre dac would most likely be a big improvement and worrhy investment.


----------



## FeedingNation

waynes world said:


> Usually much better SQ if you get a usb dac: PC -> dac -> e12 -> iem
> 
> Even a $20 ele dac or a $45 hifimediy sabre dac would most likely be a big improvement and worrhy investment.




Thanks


----------



## waynes world

feedingnation said:


> Thanks




Yer welcome. I recently had to use my ele dac again for a while, and was pretty amazed at how good it sounds, especially paired with the e12. If yoj don't want to spend too much, it's incredible bang for buck. Here's a link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELE-EL-D01-MINI-HIFI-USB-DAC-SOUND-Audio-CARD-PCM2704-BOARD-ELNA-Capacitor-bla-/290908894610


----------



## bzippy

waynes world said:


> Usually much better SQ if you get a usb dac: PC -> dac -> e12 -> iem
> 
> Even a $20 ele dac or a $45 hifimediy sabre dac would most likely be a big improvement and worrhy investment.


 

 Really? Seems like more hassle compared to just getting a sound card with a decent DAC, no? i installed an Asus Xonar DX (has the Cirrus Logic CS4398 chip) and it sounds pretty great. but it's like $80 new, so def a few more $$ i admit.


----------



## FeedingNation

bzippy said:


> Really? Seems like more hassle compared to just getting a sound card with a decent DAC, no? i installed an Asus Xonar DX (has the Cirrus Logic CS4398 chip) and it sounds pretty great. but it's like $80 new, so def a few more $$ i admit.


 
  
 I thought getting a portable amp would be better, as i would be able to use it both on the computer and on my portable rig.


----------



## waynes world

bzippy said:


> Really? Seems like more hassle compared to just getting a sound card with a decent DAC, no? i installed an Asus Xonar DX (has the Cirrus Logic CS4398 chip) and it sounds pretty great. but it's like $80 new, so def a few more $$ i admit.


 
  
 Tbh, I don't know anything about sound card options, so you might have a point there, and I'm not sure what the benefits are of a good sound card versus a usb dac (or vice versa). One benefit of the usb DAC I suppose would be that you can transfer it do different computers if desired (ie from a desktop to a laptop). And maybe another advantage is that you can spend less to get as good SQ.
  


feedingnation said:


> I thought getting a portable amp would be better, as i would be able to use it both on the computer and on my portable rig.


 
  
 If you get a usb dac (or probably if you get a better sound card), you would also want to also get an amp I think - either a desktop amp or something like the E12. I use the E12 mainly at my computer off of my usb dac. Initially I thought that I would also use the E12 on my portable rig (like you are thinking of doing), but for me (a) it's too big to be used portably and (b) it is so powerful that it can push all of my hard to drive headphones, so it makes a pretty decent desktop amp. If you can end up using the E12 at your desktop as well as portably (which many people do) , then it would make a lot of sense for you.
  
 Another option would be to get a combo dac/amp (of which there are plenty), but you couldn't use that on your portable rig.


----------



## bzippy

i agree a nice portable amp (like the E12) is a good thing and you should look into it. but this has nothing to do with the question of which DAC and where in the chain you'd want it. Of course you can also get a DAC/amp combo as ww said, if that suits your needs better. and FiiO does make some fine ones as well.
  
 the choice has comes down to your convenience and listening habits. i opted for a decent sound card so that i know, no matter what, the little cable coming out of my computer (line out from the sound card) has great sound and i can plug it into any amp i want (powered desktop computer speakers or my E12 & headphones). for portable i use the FiiO X3, which also has a nice DAC and a line out, so right into the E12 with that too!


----------



## 397324

Hi All
  
 Where is the best place in the UK to purchase an E12A? I live in Jersey, so was hoping to get the VAT off as we are not in the EU.
  
 I have emailed EA Audio on the 10th and 15, but have received no reply.
  
 Regards
  
 Darren


----------



## kenerickkoo

Is $80 for Fiio E12 a good deal? I'm thinking of buying one to replace my E11. Is the E12 worth it? Thanks!


----------



## waynes world

kenerickkoo said:


> Is $80 for Fiio E12 a good deal? I'm thinking of buying one to replace my E11. Is the E12 worth it? Thanks!


 
  
 Depends what you want it for. Some advantages of the E12 is that it can handle more power hungry headphones, and is generally a more quality amp, and you can use it while it is charging. A disadvantage is that it is larger than the E11. You may also want to look into the E11K. I don't know much about it except that it seems to be well received.


----------



## Hellkitchen

kenerickkoo said:


> Is $80 for Fiio E12 a good deal? I'm thinking of buying one to replace my E11. Is the E12 worth it? Thanks!


 
 80$ --> yes definitely. The E12 is a great amp.


----------



## kenerickkoo

What budget headphones ($50 to $100) goes well with E12?


----------



## HotIce

7506!


----------



## waynes world

hotice said:


> 7506!


 
  
 Glad you didn't say "7520!", because I really want that one lol


----------



## kenerickkoo

Does E12 go well with Fiio X1? Thanks!


----------



## HotIce

kenerickkoo said:


> Does E12 go well with Fiio X1? Thanks!



 

Not sure about the X1, but mine (one of them - I have two) lives strapped to an X3, and it's a great combo.
\


----------



## Vidmaven

hotice said:


> kenerickkoo said:
> 
> 
> > Does E12 go well with Fiio X1? Thanks!
> ...


 

 +1 picked up the HS15 stacking kit last month and now have a neat little powerhouse combo with no bands going across the X3.


----------



## Chris J

The stacking kit is nice.
 It was money well spent when I picked up my X5 and E12.
 Recommended!


----------



## riodgarp

hi I just got e12 a few days ago, in fiio site they said its can be used while charging, doesn't that make the internal battery drown ?


----------



## Ufasas

Hi audio guys, hope you doing good, just got this item recently, i am a newbie of audiophile stuff gadgets, and i am so pleased to hear music over headphones of sony ma900 right now, that i want take a day off from work and relisten all of the mp3 files in my phone folders ; ) . If i connect headphones to e12, then e12 to pc case line out jack of realtek integrated sound card, is it better or worse than having music played over headphones while connected to smartphone and e12?


----------



## Shawn71

ufasas said:


> Hi audio guys, hope you doing good, just got this item recently, i am a newbie of audiophile stuff gadgets, and i am so pleased to hear music over headphones of sony ma900 right now, that i want take a day off from work and relisten all of the mp3 files in my phone folders ; ) . If i connect headphones to e12, then e12 to pc case line out jack of realtek integrated sound card, is it better or worse than having music played over headphones while connected to smartphone and e12?


 

 If you have everything in place,I suggest you better try yourself as I believe you want to try a desktop setup....
  
 just make sure you set to flat EQ (first) with the PC media player that you gonna use and play some songs, and if you feel it's not what you expected, try on then with custom sliders (custom EQ) to set your taste, if you feel flat EQ didn't yield the result of your taste....
  
 You can level the Vol control on both the PC and E12 to sound smooth but don't SET the PC vol level more than 30-40% (you can increase if you still want) and ADJUST @ the E12 dial....Since it's a 70mm open back HP, hope you will enjoy....again, always set to zero vol on both and keep raising them gradually....


----------



## myoto

am i the only one that has a problem with hissing with iem?
 it hisses with any item i tried except havi b3


----------



## jay-w

myoto said:


> am i the only one that has a problem with hissing with iem?
> it hisses with any item i tried except havi b3


 
  
 No it's been spoken about before. It's why they made the Fiio E12a for IEMs.


----------



## Chris J

riodgarp said:


> hi I just got e12 a few days ago, in fiio site they said its can be used while charging, doesn't that make the internal battery drown ?




With a large enough charger, it will charge faster than it will drain.


----------



## Ufasas

Has any1 tried 12 Ohm Sony MA900 with fiio e12? For me it seems like sound is not balanced and boomy, i put closed type 60ohms Motorhead Motorizer on, connecting them with fiio e12 they sound bright, with warm not overpowering bass woa (gives a little wow feeling)
  
 Ma900 sound better with Asus D2 internal card : S


----------



## riodgarp

ufasas said:


> Has any1 tried 12 Ohm Sony MA900 with fiio e12? For me it seems like sound is not balanced and boomy, i put closed type 60ohms Motorhead Motorizer on, connecting them with fiio e12 they sound bright, with warm not overpowering bass woa (gives a little wow feeling)
> 
> Ma900 sound better with Asus D2 internal card : S


 
  
 turn off that bass switch firstly


----------



## Ufasas

Thanks! Ok, keeping E12 at lower levels, bass: off, ma900 seems to sound nice, actually punchier than Asus D2, but they both are great gadgets for me. What about gain 16dB, should i keep it On? It is on right now, and it was like that on before connecting everything together


----------



## bzippy

ufasas said:


> Hi audio guys, hope you doing good, just got this item recently, i am a newbie of audiophile stuff gadgets, and i am so pleased to hear music over headphones of sony ma900 right now, that i want take a day off from work and relisten all of the mp3 files in my phone folders ; ) . If i connect headphones to e12, then e12 to pc case line out jack of realtek integrated sound card, is it better or worse than having music played over headphones while connected to smartphone and e12?


 
  
 yeah, that will be up to your ears, but the only possible advantage of the PC option is that the e12 is the only amp in the chain. the phone option on the other hand, has the signal going through the phone's internal amp and then it's re-amped in the e12. hard to say which will sound "better". some think double amping like this is in general undesireable, so that's why i'm giving the edge to the PC route. but again, your ears will tell you what you prefer. it's worth adding that the E12 amp is almost certainly higher quality than the amp in any phone or any other portable music player, but any advantage of using the E12 is perhaps eliminated by having the phone amp ahead of it.
  
 real sound improvements can be achieved by addressing either or all steps in the chain, which are: source material --> DAC --> amplification --> driver (headphones). in your case, i'm guessing the source material is the same (same files are on your PC and phone?). the next step is the DAC, and i'd guess your integrated sound card is of similar quality to the one in your phone. headphones are the same in both cases, so that leaves the amp stage as i described above. but, if you could get a digital signal out of your phone or PC (pre DAC) and send that through a nicer DAC then you might hear some real improvements.


----------



## Ufasas

bzippy said:


> real sound improvements can be achieved by addressing either or all steps in the chain, which are: source material --> DAC --> amplification --> driver (headphones). in your case, i'm guessing the source material is the same (same files are on your PC and phone?). the next step is the DAC, and i'd guess your integrated sound card is of similar quality to the one in your phone. headphones are the same in both cases, so that leaves the amp stage as i described above. but, if you could get a digital signal out of your phone or PC (pre DAC) and send that through a nicer DAC then you might hear some real improvements.


 
 Yep, i've got same music files on my phone and pc, and ma900 sony sounds better with e12 and lg g2 mini (how is that?), sound is more revealing itself, tasty smooth bass is there, and so much more fun than on pc <-- realtek <--> e12 <--> headphones, ma900 via onboard pc realtek card + e12 sounds harsher, punchier and actually even fatigueing at higher volume levels, maybe it's because i'm connecting it via realtek : / hm, i want more portability from amps, that's why i got e12
  
 PS. Can confirm that charging usb cable noise is reduced significantly if it's connected to smartphone charger-usb cable to power socket adapter


----------



## riodgarp

ufasas said:


> Thanks! Ok, keeping E12 at lower levels, bass: off, ma900 seems to sound nice, actually punchier than Asus D2, but they both are great gadgets for me. What about gain 16dB, should i keep it On? It is on right now, and it was like that on before connecting everything together


 
  
 gain is about 16 db, I think that's for cans above 32 ohm cans ( has tested with my 32 ohm hd662b, its still can drive my superlux at 9 o'clock volume pot and 0 gain )


----------



## bzippy

ufasas said:


> Yep, i've got same music files on my phone and pc, and ma900 sony sounds better with e12 and lg g2 mini (how is that?), sound is more revealing itself, tasty smooth bass is there, and so much more fun than on pc <-- realtek <--> e12 <--> headphones, ma900 via onboard pc realtek card + e12 sounds harsher, punchier and actually even fatigueing at higher volume levels, maybe it's because i'm connecting it via realtek : / hm, i want more portability from amps, that's why i got e12
> 
> PS. Can confirm that charging usb cable noise is reduced significantly if it's connected to smartphone charger-usb cable to power socket adapter


 

 well i don't know anything about that realtek dac but it sounds like it's not doing it for you. there are a ton of cheapish and really nice cards out there if you're wanting to upgrade. e.g. i have an Asus Xonar DX card (with CS4398 DAC) that is smooth as silk and crytsal clear to my ears. cost is about $85. i run it through a E12 and into a set of HD600's.
  
 and the other option is to simply bypass the realtek dac by getting a digital signal out of your PC via usb. and then you'd need to add an external dac, or swap your E12 for a nice dac/amp combo like the E17K. and if you went this route you should be able do the same thing with your phone i think (get digital signal out of it), which bypasses the phone's dac and amp. and btw: how do you like the sound of the phone straight into your headphones -- better/worse/same as putting the E12 between them?


----------



## Ufasas

Hm, it's so difficult to tell after longer listenings of blues rock, prog metal, sludge. Hmmm, i would say after trying motorizer closed back, and ma900 for longer listenings, i can't find real difference yet :/ on pc i hear steps earlier in games, as i heard with Asus D2. And ma900 actually is fatigueing everywhere after longer listening of music, feels like sound is moving and tries to get deeper in my ears, in games it's normal, lol.
  
 I'll go listen to music through [ cans <--> e12 <--> Asus D2 internal card ] then, never tried it.
  
 [ cans - e12 - phone ] - slightly better on some songs or the same as [cans - phone], telling this with less than week of listening, and i love that it's louder than phone's only sound
  
 [ cans - e12 - realtek ] - good in gaming, in music i would go [ cans - Asus D2 ] and ialso would go same in gaming
  
 [ cans - phone ] - still love the sound, but it's too quiet :/
  
 Some thoughts sometimes come to head about switching to e17 or e18 : P
  
 The prices of D2 is like Asus Phoebus or Asus Essence ST right now on ebay, tech specs differences are small.
  
  
 Would you say if E12 recommended headphone _impedance_: 16 – 300ohm, and ma900 is 12 Ohm, not in range, it is the cause of fatigue while having headphones connected to e12 and listening to music?


----------



## myoto

i think its because the source
you might want to buy a dac 
and see the difference


----------



## 01ps

Hi. I have ath-m50x and a Samsung Galaxy s5 and mostly listen to streaming. I ordered an e11k and had to send it back. I found the sound quality degraded and attributed it to having to run it on the high gain setting and with my phone volume up fairly high to see any volume increase. With these settings everything became muddy, even distorted. 

Since the e12 is supposed to be and audiophile quality product and has so much power, do you think I can run it on low gain and lower output volume with better results? I think the Samsung has a really nice sound signature so I don't want to mess with it to much. 

Or would I have better luck with an E07K amp /dac? 

I am trying to get a touch more volume without running everything at max, and I like the idea of being able to control my volume in small increments, rather than the 15 steps the Samsung has. 

Thanks for any help


----------



## headdict

01ps said:


> Hi. I have ath-m50x and a Samsung Galaxy s5 and mostly listen to streaming. I ordered an e11k and had to send it back. I found the sound quality degraded and attributed it to having to run it on the high gain setting and with my phone volume up fairly high to see any volume increase. With these settings everything became muddy, even distorted.
> 
> Since the e12 is supposed to be and audiophile quality product and has so much power, do you think I can run it on low gain and lower output volume with better results? I think the Samsung has a really nice sound signature so I don't want to mess with it to much.
> 
> ...



I think you need high gain to compensate for the low level of the input signal from your smartphone. I don't understand how sound quality is degraded, though. So not sure, if E12 will fix that problem.


----------



## myoto

get a dac/amp
it will solve the volume problem and
sound better


----------



## cnumb3033

Great review, detail sold me, and I love it!
  
 Problem is I don't want to damage that finish, but I can;t find a case ANYWHERE!!! Can you point me in the right direction?
  
 Much appreciated


----------



## riodgarp

cnumb3033 said:


> Great review, detail sold me, and I love it!
> 
> Problem is I don't want to damage that finish, but I can;t find a case ANYWHERE!!! Can you point me in the right direction?
> 
> Much appreciated


 

 case? did you mean like fiio stacking kits or some small bag/wallet ?


----------



## Shawn71

cnumb3033 said:


> Great review, detail sold me, and I love it!
> 
> Problem is I don't want to damage that finish, but I can;t find a case ANYWHERE!!! Can you point me in the right direction?
> 
> Much appreciated


 
 For the case, http://www.mp4nation.net/fiio-hs7-hard-carrying-case


----------



## cnumb3033

Hi riodgarp, definitely something more portable than the FiiO HS7, so I suppose something closer to a bag, wallet- unless it was a fitted stacking case that was more portable/travel friendly that's the HS7.

Thanks very much


----------



## Hijodelbrx

I'd suggest looking into cases/bags for small cameras.  Worked for me!


----------



## riodgarp

my two bags are : small wallet and cloth bag, guess they both doesn't give portection or comfort to bring 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 1. my wallet is too small to fit e12 inside, look at it's volume pot lol 


Spoiler: wallet






  
  
 2. cloth bag are nice fit but don't comfort to bring, just afraid with my mini to mini cable  hehe


Spoiler: cloth


----------



## Ivanov

Hello,
  
 As a noob, I just bought these. They sound wonderful but I am wondering about the gain-switch. When you turn on gain, doesn't it affect the audio quality?


----------



## ClieOS

ivanov said:


> Hello,
> 
> As a noob, I just bought these. They sound wonderful but I am wondering about the gain-switch. When you turn on gain, doesn't it affect the audio quality?


 
  
 Theoretically low gain should give you better SQ, provided you get enough volume out of it. But in reality, just use whatever gain setting you want is fine.


----------



## woffett

Hi there,

Just got a pair of these a couple of weeks ago, and I've mostly been using them on the go with a Xiaomi smartphone and a pair of Soundmagic E30s. While I do feel that sound quality has improved significantly over straight up plugging the E30s into the phone, an issue that I have is hissing. Even if the original review was written over 2 years ago with a sample unit, what bowei006 says about IEM noise is right: there is some hissing that grows as you turn the volume knob. At times it is unnoticeable, but when playing softer music it can interfere significantly (e.g. Miles Davis' Blue in Green, hissing can obscure percussion and piano). When I tried them with my larger cans (AKG Q701s), the hissing disappeared.

Aside from that I can agree with most of the good things said here about them. Great performance for the price.


----------



## AudioPhi0618

Thanks, great review!
 I've been using the E12 about a year now, and for the price its perfect.
 I'm limited from using it's full potential as daily I hook my iPod up to it and am obviously at the mercy of the iPod's playback capabilities. (IE. mp3 etc as opposed to a healthy .FLAC file).
 I did notice the Mont Blanc open up a little more when loading up through JRiver on my PC though... but I recon it is more appropriate for on-the-go people than being utilised in a PC environment as it's mobile, light, affordable and just does sound good.
 A great little unit $4$... and no issues with it at all so far.


----------



## TheRealMVT

Would this amp be advisable for my Marshall Monitor cans with 42 Ohm impedance, if I would like to listen on the go from my iPod Classic (5.5th gen)?


----------



## pwoznic

I am wondering if anyone can compare the amp portion of the E12 to the Q1. I have an E11, but I am looking to upgrade to the E12 (possibly IEM edition) or the Q1 (don't really need the DAC since i usually listen through an ipod, but it's nice to have just in case).


----------



## Ufasas

Eh, i didn't want to spend so much money, and get a dac too, so i gave up with e12, got rid of it : <


----------



## aramico

I recently bought this AMP. Using it with M50X & Galaxy Note 4 / Fiio X1. As mentioned in the reveiw I can hear some noise / disturbance when I use this with IEM's. But With larger cans the noise just vanishes. But nothing can beat this at the price point. Great value for money. Enjoying my music.


----------



## riodgarp

yes I also can hear noise while turning on this unit before connected into my dap's line out


----------



## HotIce

If you use the E12 with high sensitivity HPs, you might want to flip the gain switch to low, to reduce the noise.


----------



## Trailer

First time post and looking for some advice please.
  
 I have the X3II and a pair of Westone UM-2 IEM's. Would there be any sonic benefits in getting an E12/E12A to use in between the two? 
  
 Thanks in advance.


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## riodgarp

trailer said:


> First time post and looking for some advice please.
> 
> I have the X3II and a pair of Westone UM-2 IEM's. Would there be any sonic benefits in getting an E12/E12A to use in between the two?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
  
 if your iem is sensitive and/or you also had sensitive ear I suggest you to get e12a, e12 has a lot of noise


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## Trailer

riodgarp said:


> if your iem is sensitive and/or you also had sensitive ear I suggest you to get e12a, e12 has a lot of noise


 
 Thanks for that. I've been looking through the e12a topic and there seem to be a lot of favourable reviews for the X3II/e12a combination. Very tempting!


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## Peter Hyatt

edited for correction


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## Gosod

Hello, where can I buy a new battery for E12?


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## riodgarp

gosod said:


> Hello, where can I buy a new battery for E12?


 
  
 you can contact Fiio costumer services


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## Gosod

I wrote to them two months ago on the site fiio but they did not answer me!


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## HotIce

gosod said:


> I wrote to them two months ago on the site fiio but they did not answer me!



 
Well, that's pretty bad. I think there is someone from FIIO on this board ...


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## HotIce

Contact the user JamesFiiO, if you have not already.


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## theintrospect

Selling my e12. PM me if interested.


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## Skullbox

What difference between E12 and E12a ? Is one of them are more "warm" in it ? I know, both amp have Base Boost options, with different versions. (v.1 v.2)

I'm not realy basshead. I like more balanced, neutral, some warm presence, but not colored sound. Which of them I will go for ? WillB using with X3ii


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## Gosod

skullbox said:


> What difference between E12 and E12a ? Is one of them are more "warm" in it ? I know, both amp have Base Boost options, with different versions. (v.1 v.2)
> 
> I'm not realy basshead. I like more balanced, neutral, some warm presence, but not colored sound. Which of them I will go for ? WillB using with X3ii


 
honestly I will tell you that the e12 a better, more volume and bass as well gain!


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## Skullbox

gosod said:


> [COLOR=111111]honestly I will tell you that the e12 a better, more volume and bass as well gain![/COLOR]




What about E17k vs E12a ?


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## GaNi

skullbox said:


> What about E17k vs E12a ?


 
  
 Amplifier wise, E12>E18>E17K .
  
 Source: http://www.fiio.net/en/products/44/comparisons and http://www.fiio.net/en/products/15/comparisons


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## Skullbox

gani said:


> Amplifier wise, E12>E18>E17K .
> 
> Source: http://www.fiio.net/en/products/44/comparisons and http://www.fiio.net/en/products/15/comparisons




Thank... I know about FiiO website comparaison products! All this is only white paper. No, I'm talking more about "Sound wise" Warm, bass, volume. Asking to someone have already experiences about these products.

Knowing that E12 is little basy than E12a. E12a is more neutral... now what about *E12a* and *E17k* ? 

I've already got some personal feedback from Brooko, who appreciate E17k more. Other feedback are welcome!

 Using with: 
* FiiO X3ii (Neutral)
* Westone W4r (31ohm./Neutral)


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## herdom

Best partner for E12: X3 or DX50?

I think Ibasso can do better by having optimum scene, and gain warmth with E12


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## herdom

Nobody try this combo?


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## bms44974

I use the X3+E12 daily and it is great with my Ety ER4s. I can't speak to the DX50+E12 combo.


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## herdom

Ok, thank you very much for responding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, perhaps if someone fellow can tell something more...


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## apaar123

This vs e17k vs E18? Which is the best?


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## Gosod

E17k


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## Skullbox

E12a vs E17k with Senn. HD600 (source: X3ii)


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## Gosod

12 a better than е17к?


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## LajostheHun

E12a is the "IEM" version of the E12, if you gonna use a full size headphone the E12 has the most power of all Fiio amps. As far as which sounds best, that is up to you decide.


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## Skullbox

lajosthehun said:


> E12a is the "IEM" version of the E12, if you gonna use a full size headphone the E12 has the most power of all Fiio amps. As far as which sounds best, that is up to you decide.



Umm! Have heard that E17k are best over the E12/E12a. I will have to decide between one of these using with... Westone 4r IEM / HD600 / X3ii


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## HotIce

Different beasts. The E17 is a DAC+amp, while the E12 is an amp.
 The E12 is considerably more powerful than the E17.
 if you need or not this extra power, depends what HP you are planning to have it drive.


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## LajostheHun

Yup, like I said one can prefer any of them, but the power output is not an opinion.


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## Gosod

lajosthehun said:


> Yup, like I said one can prefer any of them, but the power output is not an opinion.


 
e12 best


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## Skullbox

gosod said:


> [COLOR=111111]e12 best[/COLOR]



Yep, the best... pairing with high imp. HD. But pairing with low impd. IEM the E12a is more appropriate. But, if I want to pairing with my IEM and HD600, which of the 3 is more appropriate to buy, for both phones?


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## johnnymnemonic

Hi,
When i would use a e12 with my hd600 and headphone output of my samsung note 3, i would amplify this headphone signal out to drive the hd600 but this note 3 on max allready sounds loud to me, im i still missing out on quality in the sound when not using a e12 for example? And would i not prefer a line out to amplify instead of a headphone out?

Also can anyone tell me if i was to buy a e18 or other dac, and then using the analog out to my main nad amplifyer,
Is the sound going to be much better than feeding the note 3 headphone out into the NAD media input to amplify?
(Assuming cd quallity flac, not ultra high)


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## Skullbox

johnnymnemonic said:


> Hi,
> When i would use a e12 with my hd600 and headphone output of my samsung note 3, i would amplify this headphone signal out to drive the hd600 but this note 3 on max allready sounds loud to me, im i still missing out on quality in the sound when not using a e12 for example? And would i not prefer a line out to amplify instead of a headphone out?
> 
> Also can anyone tell me if i was to buy a e18 or other dac, and then using the analog out to my main nad amplifyer,
> ...




I can recommand FiiO X5ii or X3ii DAP with your e12 & HD600, they will pair better. Keep your note 3 for talking with friends.


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## Gosod

skullbox said:


> Yep, the best... pairing with high imp. HD. But pairing with low impd. IEM the E12a is more appropriate. But, if I want to pairing with my IEM and HD600, which of the 3 is more appropriate to buy, for both phones?


 
I listened to е12а. 
but I don't remember how much better it is than the regular E12.


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## 2damoon

Hello,

How much do you want for it and what is the condition. I am interested in a 12A, but i could consider a 12.

Marius


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## Gosod

2damoon said:


> Hello,
> 
> How much do you want for it and what is the condition. I am interested in a 12A, but i could consider a 12.
> 
> Marius


 
There are the usual E12.


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