# Alps Potentiometers for a good price



## Steven Everett

While looking for pots I found a couple of suppliers in Hong Kong. I bought 4 of them for one man, waiting on their delivery, but was contacted by another man who said he could supply me with pots for a better price. Here are the pots:

 ALPS 100K AUDIO AMPLIFIER POTENTIOMETERS

 Made in Japan and same batch!

 Brand new!

 Type: Stepped and have loudness tappings!

 These are Alps and these are the best pots you can get around, value as stated 100K. Some called them Blue Beauty or Blue Velvet! They are in fact encapsuled with stunning channel accuracy of 2 dB. They are both stereo and pins are intact! These are Logarithmic and most of all used in Volume control then you can choose what's what in your amps or preamp! A great pot which is sonically unsurpassable and easy for you to get them!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2102579074

 Mr. Leung told me he would charge us 6 U.S.dollars each for the pots and US registered airmail is $6. I would assume this is for one package. I do not know how many pots will fit in a package. 
 Here is the man's name and address:

 Wai Kei Leung
 WAI YIP ELECTRONICS
 ROOM 5, 2ND FLOOR
 PROSPERITY BUILDING
 61 TUNG CHOI STREET
 MONG KOK, KOWLOON
 HONG KONG
 TEL #: 852-27814810
 FAX #: 852-23875560
 E-MAIL: wkleung8@netvigator.com 

 As I said I do NOT have any experience with this company but if he can supply us with good pots for $6 each I think it is well worth the chance.
 steve


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## erix

Could one of our HK residents check these out?







 ok,
 erix


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## JMT

Well, I just took the "Buy It Now" option. The guy had over 900 positives. If there is an issue, then I will have learned a $22+ lesson. I will keep you guys posted.


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## JMT

Ok, an update. The lesson that can be learned may go to an $80.00 lesson. While in communication with Mr. Leung, I also ordered some 50K Alps.

 The good news is that he communicates in a very timely manner. If/when all goes well, we may be onto something.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will continue to keep you posted.


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## Possum

Wow, only $6 each! I'll have to get 5 of these (will I even ever build 5 more super amps? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 What would those 4th set of pins be used for?

 Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever seen or used one of these:
http://www4.alps.co.jp/2002pdf/pdf_e...shaft/50mm.pdf


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## andrzejpw

Wait, 80 dollars because you bought so many?


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## JMT

Quote:


 Wait, 80 dollars because you bought so many? 
 

Yes, I ended up buying 8. Then you also need to add the shipping cost from Hong Kong.


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## rickcr42

just happened to notice Jon , that this was your first ebay purchase.

 [size=medium]GET AWAY WHILE YOU CAN[/size] 

 Do NOT check daily and NEVER NEVER NEVER BID AGAIN.And do NOT get into tube rolling

 That way lies madness (or lack of cashflow)

 rick


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## Joe Lau

Be Sure it is a Alps pot ! I had order from Alps for many years but never seen such outlooking alps ! You can check at alps Web site 
 for 27mm Metal Shaft Pot 
http://www4.alps.co.jp/2002pdf/pdf_e...shaft/27mm.pdf

 It outlooking seem to be 100% difference from Photo seen on Ebay. I know a China manufacturer made some Immitation alps Pot just look like this Photo. The Company name just like "Sound xxxx". 

 Also Alps V.R in it Catalogue don't have RH series ! 27mm 
 V.R Pot is RKxxxxx not RHxxxxx

 Alps Pot is Die cast case + Phenonic not platic case ! 

 I'm sure I'm correct or not but I suspect it !


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## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Joe Lau _
*Be Sure it is a Alps pot ! I had order from Alps for many years but never seen such outlooking alps ! You can check at alps Web site 
 for 27mm Metal Shaft Pot 
http://www4.alps.co.jp/2002pdf/pdf_e...shaft/27mm.pdf

 It outlooking seem to be 100% difference from Photo seen on Ebay. I know a China manufacturer made some Immitation alps Pot just look like this Photo. The Company name just like "Sound xxxx". 

 Also Alps V.R in it Catalogue don't have RH series ! 27mm 
 V.R Pot is RKxxxxx not RHxxxxx

 Alps Pot is Die cast case + Phenonic not platic case ! 

 I'm sure I'm correct or not but I suspect it ! * 
 

 I mean ! I'm not sure I'm right or not but I really suspect it !
 I will try to contact Alps to confirm it !


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## JMT

Quote:


 Immitation alps Pot just look like this Photo. 
 

Oh, great......


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## CaptBubba

I don't think so, look at the Alps pot that tabgent used on the META42 and it looks exactly the same except for the numbering in the back. ( The pic is on page 2 of the thread)


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## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by CaptBubba _
*I don't think so, look at the Alps pot that tabgent used on the META42 and it looks exactly the same except for the numbering in the back. ( The pic is on page 2 of the thread) * 
 

I also have a Sample of such outlooking Pot but it is not made by 
 Alps ! I never seem a Alps Pot use lable in the back to identifier it parts no ! Anyway I had request our staff check to Alps Hong Kong office to confirm this matter. Please wait for a day. We only order 18mm and 40mm from Alps so I not sure 27mm Outlooking but Even 18mm type outlooking even better than Photo on Ebay !


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## JMT

**trying not to cop an attitude**


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## thomas

http://www.angela.com/catalog/potent...Alps_Pots.html 

 Angela carries the blue beuties, and the pictures look similar... Also, i've purchased many alps blue beuties from a local repudible distributer as well as from parts connection (when it was still around), all of which look similar to the pics... The sound from all of those pots are far superior to the cheap alps pots or panasonic pots i've used... 

 that said, the one's i've purchased are slightly different- the plastic/metal case is identical, but the pins, shaft, and model numbers are different...


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## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by thomas _
*http://www.angela.com/catalog/potent...Alps_Pots.html 

 Angela carries the blue beuties, and the pictures look similar... Also, i've purchased many alps blue beuties from a local repudible distributer as well as from parts connection (when it was still around), all of which look similar to the pics... The sound from all of those pots are far superior to the cheap alps pots or panasonic pots i've used... 

 that said, the one's i've purchased are slightly different- the plastic/metal case is identical, but the pins, shaft, and model numbers are different... * 
 

 I don't know what wrong ! I had check to Alps Japan and USA Web site still can't found a Alps Pot looking like it ! 
 We also order Alps pots but it is in difference naming convention ! and difference outlooking. 
 ALPS USA Site products information. 

http://www.alpsusa.com/Product/p_index.html


 It may be old stock manufacturering many years ago ! Many reason ! I'm not sure why ? But I can found many immitation Alps in China Selling in Low cost. The outlooking just like it ! You can judge it by your mind ! I just want to find out the true ! I don't want everybody same Hong Kong people like to sell immitation products. 
 Is it difference country supplier in difference outlook ? I just wonder why ? But not sure !


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## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Joe Lau _
*

 I don't know what wrong ! I had check to Alps Japan and USA Web site still can't found a Alps Pot looking like it ! 
 We also order Alps pots but it is in difference naming convention ! and difference outlooking. 
 ALPS USA Site products information. 

http://www.alpsusa.com/Product/p_index.html


 It may be old stock manufacturering many years ago ! Many reason ! I'm not sure why ? But I can found many immitation Alps in China Selling in Low cost. The outlooking just like it ! You can judge it by your mind ! I just want to find out the true ! I don't want everybody same Hong Kong people like to sell immitation products. 
 Is it difference country supplier in difference outlook ? I just wonder why ? But not sure ! * 
 


 I had contact to Alps Distributor in HOng Kong. They can't found such parts number as in Ebay ! So you can judge it Immitation or not ! I only got a Fax specification just like in Alps web site ! It is same style as 40mm Black beauty type. Is it American low cost version ? May be it never supply to Asian country ? But I think it


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## JMT

Well, I sent Mr. Leung an e-mail tactfully asking him if they were genuine Alps pots. He assured me that they were and wanted to know why I was asking and who was saying that they were not. Of course, if they are imitations I wouldn't expect him to tell me they are. So, here I am waiting for 8 pots that may or may not be Alps. And I may or may not have gotten a good deal. Or I may or may not have been screwed.

 Oh well, not much I can do about it now.


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## phidauex

Maybe if they ARE imitation, the imitation is superior! These are the killer pots that alps is trying to hide from us! They don't want to admit that this rag-tag chinese operation has produced a superior pot! As soon as you get them, hide them. Don't let anyone in the audio biz know you bought them, or you'll be blacklisted! But after you give them a little taste, feel their smooth, yet firm tracking, their quality construction, their heft, like a piece of jewelry, you'll come crawling back for more imitations! But do your transactions under the table, cash only! Don't let anyone know.. shh..

 Seriously though, even if they aren't alps, it sucks to be lied too, but at least you'll have some interesting pots, that might be pretty decent too. And if they ARE alps, well they yippee, you still got a good deal. Regardless, 80$ in the grand scheme of the world, is not much money!

 peace,
 phidauex


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## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by JMT _
*Well, I sent Mr. Leung an e-mail tactfully asking him if they were genuine Alps pots. He assured me that they were and wanted to know why I was asking and who was saying that they were not. Of course, if they are imitations I wouldn't expect him to tell me they are. So, here I am waiting for 8 pots that may or may not be Alps. And I may or may not have gotten a good deal. Or I may or may not have been screwed.

 Oh well, not much I can do about it now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 


 I just wonder Alps supplies to us in Difference looking ? Our just same outlooking as in Web site.


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## aos

You never know. I have some WIMA Black Box Audio Grade capacitors, pretty damn expensive ($22 CDN per 1 piece of 1uF!) bought from local shop - very trusty local shop - and there's no info on WIMA site about this product line (at least there wasn't back then). I guess you can always send one of those pots directly to Alps and ask them to confirm their validity.


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## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by aos _
*You never know. I have some WIMA Black Box Audio Grade capacitors, pretty damn expensive ($22 CDN per 1 piece of 1uF!) bought from local shop - very trusty local shop - and there's no info on WIMA site about this product line (at least there wasn't back then). I guess you can always send one of those pots directly to Alps and ask them to confirm their validity. * 
 


 I had talk to Alps distributor in Hong Kong and give him the parts Number seen on Ebay but it reply to us is - They don't have such parts Number. They only can supplier just like as you see in Alps Web site. Actullay the Structurer of Alps pot seen in Alps site is better than seen in Ebay. It is Alumnium Case + Phenoni. (Ebay web site is a Plastic Case). It have more smooth surface. So I think the best of Alps is on Web site. Alps have 5 Difference size Audio grade pot - 18mm , 27mm , 40mm and 50mm. It have same structure from 18mm to 40mm. 50mm is 100% difference. It is a Full metal case V.R . I just wonder why the cheaper 18mm and 40mm use structure better than 27mm ? 

 (40mm type is name Black beauty in the Web. It seem to be the best grade of Alps pots except Superior grade - 50mm metal case type but it is too expensive !)

 Do you think 27mm is cheaper than 18mm type ? 

 I will try to buy sample from China and send to Alps to Verifier it ! 

 Anyway ! I'm not sure ! I just wonder why ? I like to found out the true. 

 Wima - Yes ! I had same experience before but I had check to Distributor of Wima in HOng Kong. They same the web site is for Industry products only. Audio grade not show in Web. 

 Alps is not the same story - They don't know such Parts number ! The Parts number is unique in his products line and very easy to check if you told him the parts number. 

 May be it is American version 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 not for Hong Kong but ! ......


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## erix

Quote:


 It seem to be the best grade of Alps pots except Superior grade - 50mm metal case type but it is too expensive ! 
 

Second that! I had our local Alps rep check into the 50mm and found it was $474! yep, Four-hundred Seventy-Four Dollars!

 It's a beautiful thing, machined out of a solid chunk of brass but, Zoiks!

 But perhaps, as in the Wima case, this is an industrial part (car radios, perhaps or portable devices?) that isn't shown on their website.

 Ultimately though, as long as it's not scratchy and tracks reasonably well.. use 'em!

 ok,
 erix


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## Steven Everett

I bought 2 Alps Blue Pots (mono) from Angela Instruments for $19 each. They look just like Angela picture and Ebay's picture except the shaft and the 4th pin. My Angela pots are plastic with a number of (136X 250KA) I don't see these numbers listed either on the Alps page. I suspect these pot I'm getting from Hong Kong will look just like the ones I have, only stereo, and I'll still not know for sure.
 steve


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## evilcthul

As far as I know the blues are real...

 People on AudioAsylum swear by them and they are retailed by:
 Percy Audio http://www.percyaudio.com/
 Angela http://www.angela.com/

 Both reputable dealers who only sell genuine parts... Whilst on the subject of high quality budget components I'm wondering if anyone has ever found decently priced tantalum resistors?


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## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by evilcthul _
*As far as I know the blues are real...

 People on AudioAsylum swear by them and they are retailed by:
 Percy Audio http://www.percyaudio.com/
 Angela http://www.angela.com/

 Both reputable dealers who only sell genuine parts... Whilst on the subject of high quality budget components I'm wondering if anyone has ever found decently priced tantalum resistors? * 
 

 I just found a Company in China. It have products in same structure and naming convention is same ! 

http://www.cxzhenwei.com/cpjs.htm


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## Joe Bloggs

Hey, off topic...

 Joe, where can I find a *Head-Fi* shop in HK?
 Haven't seen so much as a single MG Head OTL here... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also some second-hand audio shops...

 Hey where is your company anyway?


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## thomas

http://sound.westhost.com/counterfeit.htm 

 Making fake pots would be a piece of cake compared to stuff like that...A quick listen/measurement should quickly tell you if its a fake or real...

 I'm trying to see where the RHXXXX model number is comming from, but the seller has removed the pics... (a sign somthing is wrong?) my real ones ( perfect channel matching, only thing i've heard that sounds better is solid metal 40mm) only have a 3 digit +1 letter serial number followed by 250KAx2...That is also the method used in the pic found on angella.... I can't see any way that the whole line can be fake, but there may be quite a few fakes out there, as with any other high-priced part (look out for 4 pin, RHXXXX model numbers, unknown distributers)...


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## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Joe Bloggs _
*Hey, off topic...

 Joe, where can I find a Head-Fi shop in HK?
 Haven't seen so much as a single MG Head OTL here... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also some second-hand audio shops...

 Hey where is your company anyway? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

Please visit our Web site for Distributors and our Address , Tel No.

http://www.tubehifi.com

 HK distributor : Audioway - 27251012 Mr Poon 1:00 PM to 8:00PM


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## JMT

Just an update:

 I received my package from Mr. Leung while I was away on business. The pots look exactly like the pics in the Ebay auction. Since these are the first "Alps" pots that I have seen, I have no point of reference to tell if they are genuine or counterfeit. One thing that surprised me, the shaft action is stepped. I expected it to be smooth. Indicative?


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## JMT

Just an update:

 I received my package from Mr. Leung while I was away on business. The pots look exactly like the pics in the Ebay auction. Since these are the first "Alps" pots that I have seen, I have no point of reference to tell if they are genuine or counterfeit. One thing that surprised me, the shaft action is stepped. I expected it to be smooth. Is that indicative of a counterfeit?


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## tangent

In the ALPS Blue, the only version with detents ('cording to the datasheet, anyway) is the single-channel version. The dual-ganged units aren't available with detents. I'm sure ALPS will make duals with detents if you ask, though, so perhaps you have a part from a custom batch. If the use the same detent module, there should be 31 steps.

 Here's the measurements you'll need if you want it to fit in the META42 (that's why you got them, right?):

 Front row of pins to rear: 10mm
 Distance between pins: 5mm
 Distance from front part of box to first row of pins: approx. 2.5mm

 The last dimension is only important if you want the front of the pot to be at the front edge of the board. Since there's a small 2mm collar sticking out of the front of the pot around the shaft, you end up with a bit of space between the front panel and the board, so the pot could actually have been placed about 2mm farther back into the board. For layout reasons, we chose not to do that. The relevant point is that your pins could be even closer to the front of the pot and still allow the pot to work fine in this board, if all the other dimensions are correct.

 Other dimensions:

 Footprint: 27x23mm, not counting the shaft collar
 Height: 25mm

 You should also test the gang error, to see if it's within 2dB down to -60dB. That's what's promised in the slick. (The datasheet doesn't give this spec.) If your pots meet a spec that tight, then who cares if they're not made by ALPS?


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## Possum

Quote:


 Type: Stepped and have loudness tappings! 
 

This is directly from the eBay auction you won with the "Buy it now" option, so I expected them to be stepped - it doesn't bother me though, smooth or detented. I also have a few of these waiting at home that arrived yesterday, but won't be able to test them out until I get home on Sunday/Monday.


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## Joe Bloggs

do stepped pots usually have better tracking or what?


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## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by JMT _
*Just an update:

 I received my package from Mr. Leung while I was away on business. The pots look exactly like the pics in the Ebay auction. Since these are the first "Alps" pots that I have seen, I have no point of reference to tell if they are genuine or counterfeit. One thing that surprised me, the shaft action is stepped. I expected it to be smooth. Is that indicative of a counterfeit?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

 Oh ! I think it may be so close to which I have a sample on hand. It is made by a Printed PCB inside and a wiper to from a switch. It have 1/16W resistors inside. Our V.R not mark "ALPS: but marking "SoundWell". I think it is no problem in short time but it may be not so reliable after use for a long time ! 
 Who Care ! It is so cheap. US$6 /Pcs - It is not cheap. I can get more and more cheaper if I order 100 Pcs. I had test it sound quality and balance is OK but the feeling is not so smooth. 
 It is little harden. 
 I think It may be not ...


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## evilcthul

If in doubt it's always better to use the real thing... At least you're guaranteed of consistent quality.

 How does the Soundwell sound compared to the ALPS? Is the difference subtle?


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## kai_yip

Actually it's selling at $5 each in Hong Kong. It's in the district Sham Shui Po.

 The range are 50k, 100k and 250k

 but for specific values (such as 10k), it needs $23 in Hong Kong from RS component


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## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by evilcthul _
*If in doubt it's always better to use the real thing... At least you're guaranteed of consistent quality.

 How does the Soundwell sound compared to the ALPS? Is the difference subtle? * 
 

 It sound quality is good ! Mechenical feeling not impressive me. I also worries it reliability ! 
 So I don't consider to use it ! Even it is cheaper than Alps. (Alps is not a Real step type but only have Click).


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## evilcthul

Hey Joe,

 Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the ALPS motorized pot smooth? I thought it wasn't stepped.

 Also are you planning to use the ALPS selector switch on your new pre-amp designs? It would go well with the pot.


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## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by evilcthul _
*Hey Joe,

 Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the ALPS motorized pot smooth? I thought it wasn't stepped.

 Also are you planning to use the ALPS selector switch on your new pre-amp designs? It would go well with the pot. * 
 

I'm not cosider to us it soon. Due to it price is too high and Lead time also very long. We have no qulaity problem on seletor switch. So I'm not consider it now. 

 Alps Motorized is not step type. It is smooth type. I know alps never products Real step type V.R. (Switch and Resistors). It only made detend normal resistor carbon disk. It only have a Click feel but not Real step type.


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## Dr.Nokill

Hello,

 I found this Site and your Posting. Well the pots seem not being ALPS. I am from Germany and there is a local Dealer who has Audiophile DIY Equipment. The Pic on eBay looks like a Panasonic Pot, just in Plastic case than in a metal one, if it is, be lucky these are better and more expensive than ALPS.
 Check this link, there are Pic of the Panasonic one
 (The link is unfortunately for most of you in german, just look a bit below on the left side)

http://www.thel-audioworld.de/bautei...ile.htm#regler

 CU
Dr.Nokill@web.de


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## JMT

What a great sight, I sure wish I didn't sleep through the 5 years of German I took in Jr. High and High School.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The "Alps" pots that I received from HK look very similar to the Panas.


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## Dr.Nokill

Yes, they do.

 As well, i slept in english, a question. The ???resitance??? of the Pot when you turn it is very high? Is it hard to turn without a knob, but feels good turning? If yes, it sure is a Panasonic. They also assembled in Japan. But they won't build these Pots anymore, so it may be possible ALPS bought the closed Factory, Machines and (re)assembles them. It may be that it is a test-series (only in Japan) and if it runs good thy will put them in their Programm and raise the price. I got some of them for 15€ and they are a little bit superior to the "standard" ALPS.
 The 8 Pins on the Pot... 4 (on the right side I think) are GND the leftest is IN and the other is OUT.
 Are they still available? And how much was the shipping? How did you pay the money?

 Thank You


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## erix

Well I popped off the back of one of these pots (Thanx JMT!) and was surprised to find it stuffed with resistors.

 That's right, 1/8W resistors, wired in series (or so it looks like) - is it a tiny stepped attenuator?! The resistor bodies are different colors - not the stripes, the body that the stripes are painted on. As if they scrounged around for the right values.

 On the meter they measure DEAD-ON between channels - at least to one decimal place. Better by far than any I've worked with before in my limited experience.

 I'll post some pics of it tomorrow. Kinda sloppy soldering but hell, I don't think I could do much better...

 ok,
 erix


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## eric343

JMT: Sorry to here that. Here's a translation from Head-Fi's Resident German Translator (me), of the bits under "Lautstärke-Einstellung; Signalquellen-Umschaltung":
  Quote:


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## eric343

FYI: I opened one of the pots from Angela. The construction in this pic:





 matches it exactly. It's a THEL with carbon-silver construction... Actually looks pretty good.


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## Joe Bloggs

freaking hell, how many steps does it have erix? You put one in an amp yet? How does it sound like while it's turning? What are the dimensions again?


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## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by erix _
*Well I popped off the back of one of these pots (Thanx JMT!) and was surprised to find it stuffed with resistors.

 That's right, 1/8W resistors, wired in series (or so it looks like) - is it a tiny stepped attenuator?! The resistor bodies are different colors - not the stripes, the body that the stripes are painted on. As if they scrounged around for the right values.

 On the meter they measure DEAD-ON between channels - at least to one decimal place. Better by far than any I've worked with before in my limited experience.

 I'll post some pics of it tomorrow. Kinda sloppy soldering but hell, I don't think I could do much better...

 ok,
 erix * 
 

 Oh ! I think it may be made by a China Manufacturer in China. I had one sample on hand. It mark "SoundWell" not Alps .
 It's parts no is RH2702 A503 just same marking convention as seen in Ebay ! So It think it is possible Immitation. Also it structure is not same as Angela ? 

 It structure may copy from Panasonics but marking is depend on customers need


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## Possum

I just had to see what erix was talking about, so I opened up one of the pots I received from the same seller. It looks pretty neat, and I might actually like these better than the type with conductive carbon/plastic discs if it means there's better matching between channels.


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## Joe Bloggs

STEPPED ATTENUATOR!!! JESUS!


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## Joe Bloggs

Quote:


 _Originally posted by phidauex _
*Maybe if they ARE imitation, the imitation is superior! These are the killer pots that alps is trying to hide from us! They don't want to admit that this rag-tag chinese operation has produced a superior pot! As soon as you get them, hide them. Don't let anyone in the audio biz know you bought them, or you'll be blacklisted! But after you give them a little taste, feel their smooth, yet firm tracking, their quality construction, their heft, like a piece of jewelry, you'll come crawling back for more imitations! But do your transactions under the table, cash only! Don't let anyone know.. shh..

 *snip*

 peace,
 phidauex * 
 

What foresight


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## erix

I brought one in to photograph today and you beat me to it!

 Yours looks alot neater than mine - I guess it's a crapshoot!

 ok,
 erix


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## ffish

Hi all,

 Damn this is getting interesting. This text, from the partsconnexion.com newsletter, might shed some light on these, too.


  Quote:


 "Alps "Black Beauty" 21-step Dual/Stereo Series Attenuator $39.95 (US)

 For years, Alps was "the" name in conductive plastic potentiometers. Used by countless consumer and pro-audio companies, Alps was the market leader. However, they no longer make conductive plastic pots at all. The "Black Beauty" pot was so called due to its case color and size - differentiating it from their other, smaller, "Blue Velvet" potentiometer series. However, Alps also used this same case style to build a special order "series attenuator" as well, primarily for the pro audio market. pcX was lucky enough to find a large NOS quantity of these RARE controls. Substantially superior sonically to any pot, this series attenuator has 21-steps, a 60dB range and superior Channel-to-Channel tracking. This control should be compared to many other discrete series attenuators at well over $100 US, making our price of $39.95 US an absolute best buy! Anyone looking for a stereo volume control between 50K and 250K, should consider this part!" 
 

--daryl


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## Possum

erix,

 Sorry about that - I saw that you intended to post a picture, but I just had to use the new digital camera I got 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I'll be posting pictures any opportunity I get). Maybe you should take a picture of yours anyway to show how much the quality of assembly varies. I have four more of these pots that I didn't open, so one or some of those could be worse. Regardless of how neat it is, as long as the signal gets through, I'd say these were worth the $6 each.


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## eric343

[edited out evidence of my absent-mindendess]
 Possum: I've been following this thread from the beginning, I'd just forgotten. OOPS!


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## Possum

Did you even read through the thread? The first post has all the information you need to e-mail the seller and order these for yourself at great prices and shipping. Shipping is cheap and fast enough that you don't need someone else to import these for you.


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## Joe Lau

I had take a Photo of Pot same as (Or simulair) as seen in Ebay but it is not made by Alps. It is made in China and selling in Low price. Quality acceptable but Mechenical feel is not My will !


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## evilcthul

The pots look very similar... Note the resistor/soldering style and the fact that they're mounted on exactly the same style of plastic washer...

 Interesting.... If we could somehow get Joseph Lau an "ALPS" pot he could verify if it was Soundwell...


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## Toe

Interesting that the two labels are almost identical. Anyone have any more pics of pots from either brand with the same type of label? I'd like to know which of them (Alps or Soundwell) normally uses labels like that.

 I'm siding with those who are thinking "Who cares if it's an actual Alps or not?" A mini stepped attenuator for six bucks doesn't seem like a bad find, I certainly don't care how something "feels", I care about how it "sounds". And most of us here could replace the resistors if we so desired, so how much do we really need to be concerned about reliability?


----------



## evilcthul

It's not the resistors that would be unreliable... I would say it would be the switching mechanism which would perhaps deteriorate over time.

 Is this stepped attenuator make before break?


----------



## Possum

Quote:


 Is this stepped attenuator make before break? 
 

If I move very very slowly between two stepping, I can hear the signal cut out - it's hard to notice otherwise though. So I guess the answer is it isn't make before break.


----------



## jarthel

Has anyone replaced the resistors with better ones like Vishay-Dale or Holcos?

 How's the sound quality of the POTs compared to one of the better ones?

 Thanks

 Jayel


----------



## finleyville

Even though Tangent was nice enough to give the dimentions of the META42 board pinouts, does anyone know for sure if this pot will work on the META42? What is the 4th pin used for anyway? I think I will buy some of these if they do match up. Any reviews of the pot yet?


----------



## morsel

The fourth pin is a loudness tap. It probably won't line up, but you can still hand wire it.


----------



## Possum

The 4th pins for each channel can be snipped with wire cutter - the resulting pins line up with the 3 pins per channel of the Alps Blues sold at DIY audio sites in the USA.


----------



## morsel

Hmm, but isn't the loudness tap one of the middle pins, not one of the end pins?


----------



## Possum

When I switched my USA Alps Blue pots from Angela.com with 3 pins with the questionable Alps Blue pot from this thread, I checked the pin configuration and it was the same except for the 4th pins on the end.


----------



## eric343

FYI, I don't think the Angela Blues are genuine, either, unless Alps markets them in Germany under a different name. The ones I got had the fourth pin snipped off and an internal construction that looked like carbon. They also were kind of rough on turning- you can *hear* it when you turn the knob.


----------



## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by eric343 _
*FYI, I don't think the Angela Blues are genuine, either, unless Alps markets them in Germany under a different name. The ones I got had the fourth pin snipped off and an internal construction that looked like carbon. They also were kind of rough on turning- you can *hear* it when you turn the knob. * 
 


 I'm agree with you ! It may be not Alps Pot !


----------



## Possum

Nevertheless, I'm assuming the Alps Blues of the type from Angela are the ones the META42 was designed to support, since I kdon't know where else in the USA to get a "genuine" Alps Blue. So maybe the META42 page should state that it's layout is meant to support a non-genuine Alps Blue if this is the case?


----------



## eric343

Heh, I believe the pinout and pin spacing is standard among genuine Alps blues and fakes...


----------



## tangent

JMT was kind enough to send me one of these ALPS-or-no-maybe-not steppers, so I decided to run it off against an ALPS Blue Velvet I got from Angela, and a 50K Panasonic EVJ. The results are in the attachment. (3 Excel spreadsheets, zipped.)

 Executive summary: Whatever these big blue pots are, they're both very good. The curve on them is nice, the channel matching is excellent, and the feel is great. If this is what it's like to be scammed, I want to be scammed some more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I learned that the Panasonics aren't as bad as you'd think given their price and specs. Through most of its range, my sample had an average of 0.35 dB channel mismatching. It went wild down at the bottom of the range, but it's only guaranteed to be within 3dB down to -40dB; with a 50K pot, -40dB is 500 ohms. Where the Panasonic fell down was its strange "log" curve -- it looks like a bunch of straight line segments. The ALPS pots' curve was in fact curved.

 The ALPS Blue Velvet's channel mismatching averaged 0.16 dB, ignoring the wild numbers down at the bottom low end of the range. The ALPS stepper averaged a stunning 0.004 dB of mismatch.

 This test isn't without problems. I only tested one sample of each pot type, and I used two different meters -- one for each channel. Since one meter has much more precision than the other, there is some small amount of error there. (Fluke 73 Series II and a Fluke 189.)


----------



## puppyslugg

Quote:


 The curve on them is nice, the channel matching is excellent, and the feel is great. If this is what it's like to be scammed, I want to be scammed some more. 
 

tangent,

 Thanks for the review of the pots. It sounds like those $6 pots are rather decent units. I guess I want to be 'scammed', too. Have ordered a few.


----------



## Toe

Is that $6 shipping charge per pot or per order?


----------



## puppyslugg

Pots are $6 each + shipping. Shipping runs about $8-10, depending on size of the order.


----------



## morsel

Wai Kei Leung says that the following stepped attenuator values are available: 10k 20k 50k 100k 250k 500k. They are $6 each with a minimum order of 4.

 Wai Kei Leung
 WAI YIP ELECTRONICS
 ROOM 5, 2ND FLOOR
 PROSPERITY BUILDING
 61 TUNG CHOI STREET
 MONG KOK, KOWLOON
 HONG KONG
 TEL #: 852-27814810
 FAX #: 852-23875560
 E-MAIL: wkleung8@netvigator.com


----------



## JMT

Let me say that dealing with Mr. Leung has been great. I have ordered twice from him and each time the pots arrived within a week of my PayPal to him.


----------



## jarthel

How's the quality of the POT compared to ALPs Blue/Black or even stepped attenuator?


----------



## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by jarthel _
*How's the quality of the POT compared to ALPs Blue/Black or even stepped attenuator? * 
 

Song is acceptable (Just like normal Metal film resistor step attenuator). It can compare with dale or other brand resistor.
 It is clear and nature. It only complain is mechenical feel is no good. Everything is OK !


----------



## morsel

Tangent just reported a serious flaw with these stepped attenuators. The shaft is about twice the length of standard knobs. For a META42 board mounted next to the case faceplate, this means that the knob would be way out from the surface of the faceplate unless the shaft is cut short or a huge, deep knob can be found. We know of no such knobs at this time.

 Cutting the shaft short removes the splined section of the shaft, leaving a reduced diameter section too small to fit standard knobs. I suggest dipping the severed shaft in 5 minute fast setting epoxy to increase its diameter to fit standard knobs, rather than attempting to glue the shaft to a knob or attaching a knob without thickening the shaft, resulting in eccentric rotation and assymetrical mounting.


----------



## JMT

I found that out the hard way. Using my trusty Dremel I cut the shaft to length, but of the ton of knobs that I have, none would fit without getting skewed. I like Morsel's suggestion about the epoxy, you can also just wrap tape around the shaft to make up the diameter loss, however you need to be precise so when you cinch down the holding screw it actually provides force against the shaft. The shaft is a tad stiff, so you could end up turning the tape inside the knob.


----------



## tangent

Another danger of using tape to pad a shaft is that the knob can slide off unless you put a lot of torque on the set screw so that you're pressing _through_ the tape to the shaft. For padding a 6mm shaft out to 6.35mm (1/4"), this is practical, but with these non-ALPS steppers (as I now believe them to be) I don't think that's practical.

 I have to make a decision on how to do this myself sometime soon. If I discover anything noteworthy, I'll report it here.


----------



## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tangent _
*Another danger of using tape to pad a shaft is that the knob can slide off unless you put a lot of torque on the set screw so that you're pressing _through_ the tape to the shaft. For padding a 6mm shaft out to 6.35mm (1/4"), this is practical, but with these non-ALPS steppers (as I now believe them to be) I don't think that's practical.

 I have to make a decision on how to do this myself sometime soon. If I discover anything noteworthy, I'll report it here. * 
 

 May be you can request the supplier order special knob to fit on it ? May be He can order from me


----------



## JMT

Joseph

 Would it be possible for some of us here to order the knobs from you?


----------



## JMT

Incidently, if anyone wants just a single unit I have about 4 that I would be willing to let go for what I paid ($6.00) plus a $1.00 for shipping in the U.S. They are the 50K ohm version. Let me know via PM.


----------



## JMT

The 4 mentioned above are spoken for.


----------



## Toe

Damn, that must have been a quick PM! If for some reason something doesn't work out with your buyer(s), I'm next in line!


----------



## JMT

It was actually 4 seperate PMs. Funny thing I noticed. It was 8:52*AM* when I posted that I would sell some and 8:52*PM* when posted that were all spoken for.


----------



## Toe

Ah, didn't notice the AM/PM bit.


----------



## geom_tol

I received some of these today. 
 I'm impressed by the small size of them, and I think the mechanical construction is fine.

 I'm amazed that they're only $6. It's obviously hand made, to bend the leads and solder on 42 resistor has gotto take a long time even if you've done it thousands of times.
 the front of the pot is diecast aluminum. The blue plastic cases are injection molded. It had to cost quite some $$ to tool this up.


----------



## FBJ

Does anyone know of any, of these pots that are motorized?


----------



## tangent

I finally got around to putting a knob on my faux-ALPS stepper and found a usable way of dealing with the strange shaft. On my pot, I had to saw off the splined part entirely, so I was left with a 5mm main shaft that tapers up to maybe 1/4" (6.35mm) near the bushing. Very hard for the set screw of knob made for 1/4" shafts to grab onto.

 The solution: back the set screw out as far as it will go without falling out, then fill the knob's cavity with hot glue about 3/4 the way. Stick the knob onto the shaft, and make sure it's nice and centered. You will want to have the volume shaft turned all the way down (or up, I guess) so that you know where the indicator should point. Let the hot glue cool. Now carefully tighten the set screw through the hot glue until it contacts the shaft.

 What's happening is that the hot glue is holding the knob straight, and providing some resistance against the knob's tendency to yaw off axis when the set screw contacts the shaft. It's still possible to tighten the set screw enough to cause some wobbling of the knob, so it's a balancing act: tight enough to hold the knob to the shaft without relying solely on the glue to prevent the knob from slipping off or sliding along the shaft, but not so tight that you make the knob yaw off axis so it wobbles as you turn it.

 This is definitely a hack, but a _workable_ hack.


----------



## Nezer

I prefer my knobs ghetto and leave the knobs off. If they are hard to turn I have a pair of pliers handy to make adjustments.


----------



## JMT

Thanks Tangent, that's a great suggestion. Isn't the hot glue gun a wonderful invention? I rank it right up there with desoldering braid.


----------



## morsel

I think Tangent's hack is a bad idea. Hot gluing the knob could make it difficult to remove later if the amp board needs servicing out of the case. It will be difficult if not impossible to manually center the knob such that all eccentricity is eliminated. I also question whether this kludge will be durable. The knob will probably loosen with time and use. 

 Thumbs down, but realize I am an anal retentive perfectionist.


----------



## morsel

Hypertext Webster Gateway: "kludge"

 From WordNet (r) 1.7 (wn)

 kludge n : a badly assembled collection of parts hastily assembled to serve some particular purpose (often used to refer to computing systems or software that has been badly put together)

 From Jargon File (4.3.0, 30 APR 2001) (jargon)

 kludge 1. /klooj/ n. Incorrect (though regrettably common) spelling of {kluge} (US). These two words have been confused in American usage since the early 1960s, and widely confounded in Great Britain since the end of World War II. 2. [TMRC] A {crock} that works. (A long-ago "Datamation" article by Jackson Granholme similarly said: "An ill-assorted collection of poorly matching parts, forming a distressing whole.") 3. v. To use a kludge to get around a problem. "I've kludged around it for now, but I'll fix it up properly later."

 This word appears to have derived from Scots `kludge' or `kludgie' for a common toilet, via British military slang. It apparently became confused with U.S. {kluge} during or after World War II; some Britons from that era use both words in definably different ways, but {kluge} is now uncommon in Great Britain. `Kludge' in Commonwealth hackish differs in meaning from `kluge' in that it lacks the positive senses; a kludge is something no Commonwealth hacker wants to be associated too closely with. Also, `kludge' is more widely known in British mainstream slang than `kluge' is in the U.S.

 From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (09 FEB 02) (foldoc)

 kludge

 <jargon> /kluhj/ (From the old Scots "kludgie" meaning an outside toilet) A Scottish engineering term for anything added in an ad hoc (and possibly unhygenic!) manner. At some point during the Second World War, Scottish engineers met Americans and the meaning, spelling and pronunciation of kludge became confused with that of "{kluge}".

 The spelling "kludge" was apparently popularised by the "Datamation" cited below which defined it as "An ill-assorted collection of poorly matching parts, forming a distressing whole."

 The result of this tangled history is a mess; in 1993, many (perhaps even most) hackers pronounce the word /klooj/ but spell it "kludge" (compare the pronunciation drift of {mung}). Some observers consider this appropriate in view of its meaning.

 ["How to Design a Kludge", Jackson Granholme, Datamation, February 1962, pp. 30-31].

 [{Jargon File}]

 (1998-12-09)

 Hypertext Webster Gateway: "kluge"

 From Jargon File (4.3.0, 30 APR 2001) (jargon)

 kluge /klooj/ [from the German `klug', clever; poss. related to Polish `klucz' (a key, a hint, a main point)] 1. n. A Rube Goldberg (or Heath Robinson) device, whether in hardware or software. 2. n. A clever programming trick intended to solve a particular nasty case in an expedient, if not clear, manner. Often used to repair bugs. Often involves {ad-hockery} and verges on being a {crock}. 3. n. Something that works for the wrong reason. 4. vt. To insert a kluge into a program. "I've kluged this routine to get around that weird bug, but there's probably a better way." 5. [WPI] n. A feature that is implemented in a {rude} manner.

 Nowadays this term is often encountered in the variant spelling `kludge'. Reports from {old fart}s are consistent that `kluge' was the original spelling, reported around computers as far back as the mid-1950s and, at that time, used exclusively of _hardware_ kluges. In 1947, the "New York Folklore Quarterly" reported a classic shaggy-dog story `Murgatroyd the Kluge Maker' then current in the Armed Forces, in which a `kluge' was a complex and puzzling artifact with a trivial function. Other sources report that `kluge' was common Navy slang in the WWII era for any piece of electronics that worked well on shore but consistently failed at sea.

 However, there is reason to believe this slang use may be a decade older. Several respondents have connected it to the brand name of a device called a "Kluge paper feeder", an adjunct to mechanical printing presses. Legend has it that the Kluge feeder was designed before small, cheap electric motors and control electronics; it relied on a fiendishly complex assortment of cams, belts, and linkages to both power and synchronize all its operations from one motive driveshaft. It was accordingly temperamental, subject to frequent breakdowns, and devilishly difficult to repair -- but oh, so clever! People who tell this story also aver that `Kluge' was the name of a design engineer.

 There is in fact a Brandtjen & Kluge Inc., an old family business that manufactures printing equipment - interestingly, their name is pronounced /kloo'gee/! Henry Brandtjen, president of the firm, told me (ESR, 1994) that his company was co-founded by his father and an engineer named Kluge /kloo'gee/, who built and co-designed the original Kluge automatic feeder in 1919. Mr. Brandtjen claims, however, that this was a _simple_ device (with only four cams); he says he has no idea how the myth of its complexity took hold. Other correspondents differ with Mr. Brandtjen's history of the device and his allegation that it was a simple rather than complex one, but agree that the Kluge automatic feeder was the most likely source of the folklore.

 {TMRC} and the MIT hacker culture of the early '60s seems to have developed in a milieu that remembered and still used some WWII military slang (see also {foobar}). It seems likely that `kluge' came to MIT via alumni of the many military electronics projects that had been located in Cambridge (many in MIT's venerable Building 20, in which {TMRC} is also located) during the war.

 The variant `kludge' was apparently popularized by the {Datamation} article mentioned above; it was titled "How to Design a Kludge" (February 1962, pp. 30, 31). This spelling was probably imported from Great Britain, where {kludge} has an independent history (though this fact was largely unknown to hackers on either side of the Atlantic before a mid-1993 debate in the Usenet group alt.folklore.computers over the First and Second Edition versions of this entry; everybody used to think {kludge} was just a mutation of {kluge}). It now appears that the British, having forgotten the etymology of their own `kludge' when `kluge' crossed the Atlantic, repaid the U.S. by lobbing the `kludge' orthography in the other direction and confusing their American cousins' spelling!

 The result of this history is a tangle. Many younger U.S. hackers pronounce the word as /klooj/ but spell it, incorrectly for its meaning and pronunciation, as `kludge'. (Phonetically, consider huge, refuge, centrifuge, and deluge as opposed to sludge, judge, budge, and fudge. Whatever its failings in other areas, English spelling is perfectly consistent about this distinction.) British hackers mostly learned /kluhj/ orally, use it in a restricted negative sense and are at least consistent. European hackers have mostly learned the word from written American sources and tend to pronounce it /kluhj/ but use the wider American meaning!

 Some observers consider this mess appropriate in view of the word's meaning.

 From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (09 FEB 02) (foldoc)

 kluge

 <jargon> /klooj/, /kluhj/ (From German "klug" /kloog/ - clever and Scottish "{kludge}") 1. A Rube Goldberg (or Heath Robinson) device, whether in {hardware} or {software}.

 The spelling "kluge" (as opposed to "kludge") was used in connection with computers as far back as the mid-1950s and, at that time, was used exclusively of *hardware* kluges.

 2. <programming> A clever programming trick intended to solve a particular nasty case in an expedient, if not clear, manner. Often used to repair bugs. Often involves {ad-hockery} and verges on being a {crock}. In fact, the TMRC Dictionary defined "kludge" as "a crock that works".

 3. Something that works for the wrong reason.

 4. ({WPI}) A {feature} that is implemented in a {rude} manner.

 In 1947, the "New York Folklore Quarterly" reported a classic shaggy-dog story "Murgatroyd the Kluge Maker" then current in the Armed Forces, in which a "kluge" was a complex and puzzling artifact with a trivial function. Other sources report that "kluge" was common Navy slang in the WWII era for any piece of electronics that worked well on shore but consistently failed at sea.

 However, there is reason to believe this slang use may be a decade older. Several respondents have connected it to the brand name of a device called a "Kluge paper feeder" dating back at least to 1935, an adjunct to mechanical printing presses. The Kluge feeder was designed before small, cheap electric motors and control electronics; it relied on a fiendishly complex assortment of cams, belts, and linkages to both power and synchronise all its operations from one motive driveshaft. It was accordingly tempermental, subject to frequent breakdowns, and devilishly difficult to repair - but oh, so clever! One traditional folk etymology of "klugen" makes it the name of a design engineer; in fact, "Kluge" is a surname in German, and the designer of the Kluge feeder may well have been the man behind this myth.

 {TMRC} and the MIT hacker culture of the early 1960s seems to have developed in a milieu that remembered and still used some WWII military slang (see also {foobar}). It seems likely that "kluge" came to MIT via alumni of the many military electronics projects that had been located in Cambridge (many in MIT's venerable Building 20, in which {TMRC} is also located) during the war.

 [{Jargon File}]

 (2000-01-31)


----------



## JMT

So, what does "kludge" mean again?


----------



## wallijonn

I bought (2) 10K, (2) 20K and (2) 100K ALPS from Ebay. $43 shipped. not too bad, heh?


----------



## dta116

Where are you people finding these pot on e-bay?
 Can't seem to locate them anywhere.


----------



## Kickus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by dta116 _
*Where are you people finding these pot on e-bay?
 Can't seem to locate them anywhere. * 
 

Just search for "alps potentiometer" and there is usually several of these auctions that turn up.


----------



## joe_cool

This auction is closed but should give you an idea what to look for.

 This auction is for a smaller (18mm) pot that fits the META42 board layout.


----------



## doobooloo

Obviously, this is not an Alps pot:

http://www.cxzhenwei.com/english/cpzs-pro01.htm

 Unless Alps gets their pots OEM-ed from Cixishi Zhenwei Electron Factory... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I am getting some too, for $6 each they seem to be quite a deal... hee hee. stepped attenuators for $6!


----------



## wallijonn

and for a cheap ALPS pot, go to Radio Shack. They have 100K stereo pot for under $3. #271-1732. yes, it even says "ALPS" on it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 obviously it's not stepped.


----------



## doobooloo

I tried two of them before, but...

 they have the most horrible mismatch ever. one of them even had a complete dip (almost to nothing) in one channel right smack in the middle of rotation!

 A $3 real Alps < $6 fake Alps?


----------



## Kickus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by doobooloo _
*Obviously, this is not an Alps pot:

http://www.cxzhenwei.com/english/cpzs-pro01.htm

 Unless Alps gets their pots OEM-ed from Cixishi Zhenwei Electron Factory... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I am getting some too, for $6 each they seem to be quite a deal... hee hee. stepped attenuators for $6! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

I just emailed them. If there is enough interest, perhaps I could organize a group purchase.


----------



## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by wallijonn _
*and for a cheap ALPS pot, go to Radio Shack. They have 100K stereo pot for under $3. #271-1732. yes, it even says "ALPS" on it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 obviously it's not stepped. * 
 

 Alps has stadard grade for industrial. It is not expensive. US$3 is possible. It will be round looking in back.


----------



## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by JMT _
*Joseph

 Would it be possible for some of us here to order the knobs from you? * 
 

 Yes ! You are welcome. Just send me a email. No minimun order but you should pay freight charge.


----------



## JMS

I bought the "ALPS pots" from hkleung on ebay a few months ago, and were shipped two 50K-ohm stepped attenuators (verified by opening the case). I got a couple more from the same guy a couple months ago, and they were both just pots, with about 20% mismatch between channels.


----------



## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by JMS _
*I bought the "ALPS pots" from hkleung on ebay a few months ago, and were shipped two 50K-ohm stepped attenuators (verified by opening the case). I got a couple more from the same guy a couple months ago, and they were both just pots, with about 20% mismatch between channels. * 
 

 It's so sad ! It have many many ! Immitation parts in China ! Some manufacturer try to copy look parts from famouse manufacturer but most of its can copy outlloking only but parts quality is difference ! So I never buy parts from China Domestic market !


----------



## jeftsang

Can someone tell me what's so great about having a stepped pot? Is it sound quality, feel, accuracy.........?


----------



## HD-5000

Stepped attenuators are precisely for sound quality. A series of resistors tuning the volume is cleaner than a smooth, conductive plastic potentiometer.


----------



## jeftsang

interesting, thanks. That makes a lot of sense. Are there any other popular brands other than alps that makes stepped attenuators? 

 I've heard of the alps blue velvet, they're discontinued right? Is there a replacement model coming up?


----------



## tangent

I called around a bit after hearing that someone said on Head-Fi that the ALPS Blue Velvet (i.e. RK27112) is being discontinued and haven't found anyone from ALPS or their distributors saying that. I just placed an order, and am not hearing anyone complain that they can't get them. If someone knows different, let me know, because I want to get them while I can!

 Anyway, as for other sources of stepped attenuators which are far better and far more expensive than the fake ALPS thing, look into TKD, DACT and Goldpoint. These are all in the $100 to $200 range. The $6 pseudo-ALPS stepper is a cheap, flawed device which is interesting simply because it's cheap and it fits on any board made for ALPS Blues. It's not what I'd call a good stepped attenuator. It's a gimmick.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

How is it flawed? (sorry I had to ask again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## tangent

Quote:


 How is it flawed? 
 

Oh, "flawed" is too strong a word. It works, it's a good value for the money, it's not a scam. But, it's not a miracle. People see "stepped attenuator for $6!" and have all these visions in their head of saving $100-200 vs. what we normally think of as stepped attenuators. 

 Here's what's wrong with it relative to more expensive parts:

 1. It pops between steps. There are ways to cure this, but it's a pain.

 2. The bushing is a strange size, so you have to have an odd drill size to make the hole. (23/64", as I recall.) The mounting nut is a strange size, too, so you probably don't have the right nut driver for it. You end up using a Crescent wrench. Bleah.

 3. The shaft is long and splined, and below the splines it tapers to 5mm and then back up to 6mm. So either you have to find a very large knob for 18-point splined shafts for it, or your have to cut the splines off and deal with the 5-6mm shaft. Splined knobs are rarer than knobs for smooth-shafts, and you probably don't want a knob big enough to completely hide the shaft anyway. There are knobs for 6mm smooth shafts, but in my experience the short 6mm section isn't long enough to work with most knobs. There are no knobs for 5mm shafts that I can find. If you don't match the knob's hole to the shaft size exactly, the knob wobbles when you turn it.

 4. It's a small annoyance, but you have to cut the loudness pins off for boards like the META42.

 5. If you examine it side by side with a real ALPS Blue Velvet pot, the ALPS pot is built a bit better. I'm not sure if this really matters, but it's nicer to use a well-built part than one that's cheap-looking.

 EDIT: 6. I have to admit, I'm inclined to negative feelings when I think about this part, because it's so clearly a cheap knockoff of a great part. It's not just the physical parts design, it's the fact that they stick these cheap Xeroxed pieces of paper on the back that are made to look like the professionally-printed stickers ALPS uses on their parts. They're clearly intended to deceive, and that bothers me.


----------



## Squalish

I wonder why the chinese knockoff company decided to use such unusual sizes.


----------



## tangent

These sizes seem to be metric in origin, whereas the ALPS pots use English system inspired units: 5/16" bushing, 1/4" shaft, that sort of thing. 23/64" is probably meant to be 9mm, for example. 23/64" is just the closest could come in the English system.


----------



## doobooloo

I just ordered two on ebay last week.

 Guess what I got. Two stepped POTS.

 When I opened them up there was this crappy looking round carbon strip instead of cute little resistors cramped in a circle.

 I am so mad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What I got now is a cheap knockoff that is clearly NOT worth ths $18+$7 shipping and all this waiting time! Heck, I could actually have gotten one genuine Alps Blue for that price!

 By the way, I ordered mine from audiotronics_hk instead of wkleung because only they carried the 100K version at the time of purchase.

 I see what JMS is saying now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the Chinese factory must have stopped making the attenuators now, but instead is fitting them with crappy 20% mismatch pots...


----------



## puppyslugg

You pays your money, you take your chances! Sorry it didn't work out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I must have been lucky. I ordered 6 early on when they first appeared. At least they were stepped attenuators.


----------



## 00940

that's strange

 I've won an auction from audiotronics on two of these (100K, RH2702) and I've opened one.

 It is exactly as on the pictures : multicolor resistors in circle, 21 steps. It looks like a crazy soldering job btw, that's so small


----------



## doobooloo

And the funny thing is, mine says RH2701 on the back, although in the auction it said RH2702. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 aarrggg...


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## KTpG

Has anyone here had experience with wkleung on eBay? he sells the Alps and I REALLY want to buy one... but am afraid to buy from HK. I must pay via money order and am scared to purchase... is the transaction painless anyway? Can anyone provide a walkthrough?


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## doobooloo

The guy I bought from is being really nice about this whole issue. He said he would check the authencity of these pots with Alps and that these are what are on the market and stuff... And he said he would refund the entire cost (including shipping) so I'm really glad about that.

 Only if these pots had that stepped-attenuator consistency...


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## mhamel

Well, I ordered 12 of these from Mr. Leung, and all of them are the RH2701 variety, containing no resistors.

 I e-mailed him and asked if I could exchange them for the RH2702 variety, and he claims they are "exactly the same except for the stickers."

 I followed that up with pics of the RH2702 opened up and the link to the original supplier that was posted earlier in this thread. He hasn't responded yet.

 Lesson learned, I guess.

 -Mike


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## Squalish

Curiouser and curiouser.

 It seems that a seller on ebay has finally realized that a specific lot aren't potentiometers, and is now selling them with a pic of the casing off.




 [size=medium]$[/size] 
 The guy is based in Australia, and the opening bid is AUD30(USD19.80), with a BIN of AUD50(USD33).

 I inquired about his stock, suppliers, etc, and he responded:
  Quote:


 _Originally posted by Chris Taylor <scray AT ozemail.com.au>_
*Hi ,
 I have a few still in stock about another 30 units.
 I can not guarantee an endless supply , or the source.
 So can only offer what i currently have in stock.
 How many do you want .
 I also have more tube preamp tranformers coming and one suitable for tube power amps at prices you cannot beat.
 Cheers
 Chris*


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## tropicalcb

Ive recently bought one of these pots from chris Taylor on ebay...and it is very very good( I wouldnt know him if he jumped out of my cornflakes so I'm not flogging his agenda for him).....so who actually gives a rats whether its a name brand or not. 
 The resistors in mine are a mixture of metal & carbon film...actually the carbons look identical to the little midgets in my TEAC X-2000 R2R, and there are no qualms with the sound quality of that big ol beautiful mother of machinery!!. 
 To the bloke who got a bunch of the RH2702 for U$6 each...I'll buy them off you!!...I paid AU$25 +postage and I reckon I got a bargain. In my not very humble opinion they make better sounds than either the original blue alps that Old colony had..(veiled sound)...and the black beauty, which was a nice sounding standard pot...(but like most things boutiquey in audio, hyped to the ****house by people who spend more time playing with their pudds than listening) It was even carbon track not plastic I think. or even some of the better Bourns and allen Bradley mod pots Ive used on mostly valve equipment.
 I actually think it will get better with age and lets face it, does anyone really think its mechanical integrity will go belly-up before we build the next u-beaut piece of equipment!!
 cheers...........cb


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## 4fatcatz

With all this excitement I had to order a pair myself.
 We'll see what comes in the mail. I am fully aware that they
 are not going to be real ALPS (i have used several blues,
 and they dont look like this). I got mine off ebay
 from "audiotronincs_hk" The description states "stepped".
 I wouldnt mind getting the version with the resistors.

 Since this is an old thread would anyone that had the 
 "stepped" version comment on it's reliability and 
 how it sounds?

 4fatcatz


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## KTpG

While on the subject of Alps pots/stepped attenuators...

 I must ask- the Black Beauty is also good, right? I was browsing parts Connexion and founf the following, which sparked my interest:

Alps Black Beauty

 and  the Noble pot

 This is surely not an Alps stepped attenuator for $50... but if it was, that'd be nice. What are some opinions on these? I also hear Noble is good... (Headroom uses them, don't they?)


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## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by 4fatcatz _
*With all this excitement I had to order a pair myself.
 We'll see what comes in the mail. I am fully aware that they
 are not going to be real ALPS (i have used several blues,
 and they dont look like this). I got mine off ebay
 from "audiotronincs_hk" The description states "stepped".
 I wouldnt mind getting the version with the resistors.

 Since this is an old thread would anyone that had the 
 "stepped" version comment on it's reliability and 
 how it sounds?

 4fatcatz * 
 

 I don't think it is real Alps ! I can found this V.R in China market in around US$3/Pcs. I had some sample on hand. It had no sound quality problem but mechenical is not very good ! Sure ! It can use but not smooth only.


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## CaptBubba

So if you switched the volume around a bunch, they would fail quickly?

 I suppose with a "imitation" part, there would be little or no reliability information avalible, like a mean time before failure number.


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## Joe Lau

Quote:


 _Originally posted by CaptBubba _
*So if you switched the volume around a bunch, they would fail quickly?

 I suppose with a "imitation" part, there would be little or no reliability information avalible, like a mean time before failure number. * 
 

 I'm not sure it will fail after How many times turn ! I only feel it little losse after few turns !


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## tropicalcb

maybe there's a couple of different versions, as someone said a while back. Mine is a very good "fake"...it is an RH2702 100KA x2...thats whats printed on the back and theyve certainly done a good match on the alps typeface, but I no longer have anything to compare to. The mechanical build and feel is very good...(perhaps a little tight as you go through the detentes)...as is the soldering of the resistors. I would reckon the assembly is good for at least a couple thousnad turns, but maybe a lot more. Also remember you are listening to series resistors not carbon, cermet or plastic tracks....I wouldnt mind getting another one or two to experiment with extracting the MF resistors and making all carbon film....better still would be carbon composition but the case is too small. The elektor SRPP valve preamp project from about 1986/87 has a diy ladder diagram with resistor values for mono & stereo 100K volume and balance. Actually the line stage of that pre was my h/phone amp for years with Beyerdynamic DT880's...and a very nice combination too!!
 Joe, is yours marked as per the above on the back??
 Does anyone know if the type I'm talking about is still available for U$6...the australian ebay pots version like mine is AU$50 to buy with a $30 starting bid...
 cheers...........cb


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## 4fatcatz

In response to the Noble pots...
 So far I have used 8 mono pots (dual volume controls)
 and have a used stereo pot in the drawer. I have no complaints
 about Noble at all. I like them very much. I cant hear any
 difference between a true blue Alps and these but the applications were different in each case. Again, I like the Noble
 pots very much.

 You cant go wrong with either one...a real Alps or Noble.


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## joe_cool

I thought everyone knew about the fake Alps pots. See this.


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## Gojira

I just ordered a couple of the 100k Cixi Zhenwei (fake Alps) attenuator pots from audiotronics as well. Couldn't resist with all the hype 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I specifically requested the ones with the resistors inside and I even sent him the photo from the Aussie's auction showing the circle of resistors inside. The guy I talked to in email acknowledged that he would be sending the "resistor network" pots! How exciting. Hope that's what I actually receive. I'll let everyone know what happens.


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## tropicalcb

I just got a price back from mr 6 bucks leung and he now wants 20 bucks us!!! ..told him he's gotta be dreamin. do you have a url for audiotronics?..I did a google search but got nothing useful
 cheers.......cb


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## joe_cool

Maybe you can contact Audiotronics through eBay


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## morsel

Just a reminder that the fake Alps stepped attenuators are very stiff turning and audibly click with each step. I would not use them.


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## 4fatcatz

This reminds me of the old Labtec Elite 840 headphone
 thread. A miracle at $19.00/pair.......Naaa.

 Just doing it for the fun of it.


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## toobs

Hi,
 I bought a couple of them from Audiotronics. Mine sound great, no clicks.
 My only problem is that the lower setting is too loud (I normally listen to music, late at night)
 Do you have any idea on how to increase the attenuation without having to change most resistors?

 I have found this program on the net, please tell me what you think.
http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~nroberts/atten.html

 Regards!


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## Real1shepherd

Sorry to jump in there. I have a Nak RX-505 that I'm putting back together. There is a little 10K volume pot ("control") that has a plastic gear attached to its metal shaft. The pot is held to a metal plate by a nut. It's an Alps pot that reads; 10KB and 611k. It has three solder leads. I don't know what the tolerance is, but I'm desperate to find another. The pot didn't break, but the shaft fell out, still attached to the plastic gear. It looks like the shaft was glued to another part inside the pot. I could probably glue it back, but I have no frame of reference as to what position it was in. The only guide I have is an arrow on the plastic gear that points to a red dot on another gear-when and if you ever take this pot out. Anyone help??

 *Update: actually forget the glue idea, I lost a little copper disc that was inside.


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## Pars

The only suggestion I can make is to look at the Alps website and see if you can figure out exactly what it is (Alps part number). Mouser carries Alps... beyond that ???


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## Real1shepherd

Yeah, I've done that. The only parts # I have is in the Nak service manual and I doubt if that is Alps. At least at digikey, they show pics and dimensions-I have to have at least that much, as I'm not gonna order blind. I can't imagine anyone getting excited enough at Alps (about one pot) to have significant email dialog?


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## amb

Chances are the pot in your Nak is a special item that is no longer available, or only available when bought in very large quantities. Why not take a photo of the pot in question and post it here for us to see? Nakamichi had gone through a large corporate transformation and they basically no longer support their old tape decks nor carry any service parts for them any more, so that would also be a dead end. Many Nak owners are now buying dead Naks to salvage parts from.


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## Real1shepherd

I thought about that angle with Nak, but I doubt the production #'s for that pot merited a proprietary venture...unless of course, they used this pot a lot throughout their various decks. If it is a proprietary Nak part, then I've got troubles. I don't object to buying another deck for parts, except for the time factor. I know another guy who is working on a RX-202 and maybe I can get him to look at his deck to see if it's the same pot-the 202's go for a lot less. I don't have a digital camera or scanner, but I can take some quality 35mm pics and have them converted to CD and post here if you think it may help? There are techs around the country who service old Naks and do a good job at it. However, except for idler wheels, belts, heads and the like, they have no interest in helping out with other parts-most won't answer my emails. It's like a giant vacuum out there or secret faternity.


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## Pars

You could try taking the Nak part number and emailing Nakamichi to see if they could provide the manufacturer part number for it. Unfortunately, alot of the '80s and early '90s vendors records leave alot to be desired. You never know, though.


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## amb

Real1shephard, another avenue where you might get useful help is the Naktalk email list. If you're not already a member, register at http://www.naks.com . There are some very Nak-savvy folks there.

 P.S. I have a Dragon and a CR-7, both I cherish a lot!


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## Real1shepherd

Thanks Pars, that's a good idea. I did have my friend who's working on the 202 send me his service manual in PDF. As I suspected, it's exactly the same pot in his deck-so that's at least two models that use the same volume control pot. 

 amb, I did just list on Naktalk. However, I find that they way they communicate with each other (only by emails through the one server with a lot of duplication) a very confusing format. I agree though, from what I've read, they know their Naks! I have found a 'parts only' 202 machine that I'm thinking about buying-just to get that pot.

 *Update:I Talked to my friend who is lucky enough to have fixed his 202. He said it may seem like overkill, but it's really a good idea to pick up another machine with similar parts. I think the 202 and the 505 share some motors as well and I have his service manual in PDF so it's easy to cross parts. Now, just to find a 'donor' that is reasonable. The hype for Naks has pretty much ended-legions of people got taken buying "perfectly operating" machines that were junk and suffered enormous repairs bills to keep them. That's had a profound effect on most Nak markets except the "Dragon", which does everything for you automatically-on a good day. Personally, I'd rather have a more hands on deck.


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## ykstyle

I've used 10 fake ALPS Stepped attenuators..
 I agree that it has not so good mechnicals. It's not smooth when turning pot. And in the low volume region (min-11), it has steepy attenuation.
 But... the SQ blow all problem mentioned above
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's better than Black Beauty and some boutique pots!!! It is more transparent than Black Beauty and more musical energy in it. Now I get to love it


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