# Review of the Audio-GD FUN - A modular Dac / Headphone amp / Preamp



## slim.a

*Review of the Audio-GD FUN - A modular Dac / Headphone amp / Preamp*



*IPreamble*


The Audio-GD FUN:

 The Audio-GD FUN is the replacement of the Compass which has been extensively described here by Currawong, so I won't go into the details. 

 Like the Compass, it is a DAC / pre-amp / headphone amp in one enclosure. But the novelty here is that has a modular design that lets even the unskilled user to replace different modules to tailor the sound of the FUN accordingly.

 The modules that can be replaced by the user are : the USB module, the Digital receiver module, the DAC, the Opamp, The Gain module, The output module. Well, almost everything seems to be replaceable except for the power supply!

 Here is a link to the Audio-gd web page with the full list of modules: ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


Quick note on my current setup:

 I have been listening and tweaking for months now to the dac19Mk3+C2C combo with my silver cabled Sennheiser. This set-up is both revealing and enjoyable to listen to it. So whenever, I mention a comparison to my reference system, keep in mind that the total cost of the components, cables and power filter are almost 10 times the price of the Audio-gd FUN.


My review method:

 When reviewing or trying to assess a new component, I usually let it burn-in for quite some time (with minimal listening to it during that period), and then I prefer to do long listening sessions to get a good feel of the new component. It is only at the end that I do some A/B tests with my reference set-up to check if my impressions are correct. 



*IIReview of the A version (DIR9001 +AD1852 + ACSS + Diamond Buffer)*


*1Set-up & Musical selection*

 I did my review using a “best case scenario” in my system:

 Foobar v1.0 –> Kernel Streaming –> m2tech Hiface –> Oyaide DB-510 –> Audio-gd FUN –> Artisan Silver Dream Cable –> Sennheiser HD-650

 Opamp used : LME49720 HA TO-99 (metal can version)

 Power cord : Hifi Cables & Cie Powertrans Plus cord
 Power filter : BADA LB-5600 (with Hifi Cables & Cie SimplePower Cord)
 Vibration control : Herbie’s Audio Tenderfoot, Yamamoto footers, Maple Platform, Sand Box
 Usb cable : Wireworld Ultraviolet USB 


 Some of the music used for this review:

 MOZART Violin Concertos - Marianne Thorsen – 2L – 24/96
 Sol Gabetta - Schostakowitsch Cellokonzert Nr. 2/Cello
 Mahler - Symphony n 5 - Decca
 Natalie Dessay - Italian Opera Arias - Emi Classics
 Puccini - La Boheme - Decca
 Glenn Gould – The Goldberg Variations 1981
 Hans Zimmer - Gladiator Soundtrack
 The Dave Brubeck Quartet - Take Five 
 Soundrama - "The Pulse" (Test CD)
 The World's Greatest Audiophile Vocal Recordings – Chesky – 24/96
 Patrici Barber – Café Blue – HDTracks download
 Diana Krall - Live in Paris
 Norah Jones - Come Away With Me



*2DAC / Headphone amp combo*

 First, let me tell you a little anecdote: while reviewing the unit, and in order to keep the conditions similar to what I am used to in my reference set-up, I would usually swap the FUN with either the dac19mk3 or the C2C. After listening for quite a while to the FUN sitting in place of the C2C, I thought that the tonal balance was clear. Then I put it where the dac19mK3 usually sits and the sound was darker (but still on the clear side). I was very puzzled until I remembered that the power cord of the C2C was plugged in the unfiltered socket of my bada filter, while the dac19mK3 was plugged in the filtered socket (both units use the same power cords). 
 So while reading my review, keep in mind that the audio-gd FUN but also its interaction with the rest of my playback chain.


Timbre and tonal balance:

 The version A (ACSS) is tonally very well balanced from top to bottom. Its midrange is very clear and effortless. It is only when compared to the dac19mK3+C2C combo that it is apparent that the audio-gd FUN lacks timbre refinement and the ultimate extension at the deep bass and extreme highs. However, I really like the neutral balance of the FUN because it is not trying to emphasize the mid-bass or mid-treble to fake the extension at the frequency extremes. Many entry level product are plagued with mid bass bloat (to give impression of warmth) or mid treble sharpness (to give the impression of a high definition sound) and while it can be pleasing in the sort run, I personally find it annoying in the long run.

 By the way, I first thought that it had a slight metallic timbre when I listened to it fresh out of the box, but it smoothed out with burn-in (I used the Isotek Burn-in CD for the burn-in period). 


Dynamics:

 The dynamics are good without compression but there is nothing exceptional going on with the Sennheiser hd-650 which are notoriously known to be picky about amplification. 


Soundstage and imaging:

 The soundstage/headstage was surprisingly good. It is not the widest I have heard, but it has excellent depth. With the Silver cables Sennheiser, the soundstage extends beyond the head.
 It also has pinpoint imaging. Listening to large scale orchestras, you get a good feeling where the instruments are positioned in both depth and width, and the resolution is good enough that you can still recognize the tonal signature of similar instruments playing next to each other inside the soundstage


Transparency:

 The transparency to the recording is actually very good. Version A (with ACSS) has the least coloration of any other combination I tried. It lets you hear a good differentiation from one recording to another. Other combinations can be more pleasing on a particular recording but you get stuck with that coloration on every recording which may be more suitable for other set-ups and personal tastes, but it is not a match for my system and personal preferences.
 In fact, the audio-gd FUN is very picky about the quality of the recordings (mastering and encoding). My recommendation is that it shouldn’t be use with mp3s of less than 320kbps, and it would be preferably used with lossless or high rez files.

*
 3Dac/preamp section*


 When using the DAC out and using the C2C as an external amp, the soundstage grew a little bigger, mostly in width. There was also better three-dimensional palpability to the sound. The C2C reached deeper in the bass and had a fuller sound (higher tonal density).
 Overall the sound (in comparison with the FUN alone) was more effortless, more relaxed and perhaps slightly warmer sounding. However, in this configuration, the increase in performance is subtle and considering the cost of the pair of interconnects, headamp and extra power cord, it is not worth it by any standards.

 However, the big surprise came when I used the DAC with its line out. The soundstage was much bigger and three-dimensional. The sound was more refined. The level of details increased a lot. This was counterintuitive and I wasn’t exactly expecting improvement when I tried it. In fact, the reason I tried the variable line out was to see how much transparency was lost with the use of the extra buffer stage and volume. However, it is the opposite: the FUN is a much better DAC from the variable line out. 
 I went back and looked at the internal of the FUN and those of the Compass, and it seems that the FUN is lacking a buffer section unlike the Compass. Besides the need of a fixed volume output, I see no reason why the dac out has been offered as an option.

 Anyway, I am happy to have discovered that the FUN has an excellent preamp section. The other preamps I have on hand, the audio-gd st-3 and little dot mk3 are more colored and are definitely not as transparent.


*4Headphone amp section*

 To assess the quality of the headphone amp section, I used the dac19mk3 as an external dac (using the Artisan Cables "Ultimate Silver Dream" interconnects) into the line input of the FUN. 
 The first thing that stroke me was the size of the soundstage, it was much bigger in all directions (width, height and depth) compared to its internal dac. 
 The second thing that attracted my attention was the level of details which was much higher through the dac19mk3 + headamp section of the FUN. 
 Finally, the sound was more analog like, more natural with less edginess. 

 Overall, I found the headphone amp quite satisfying on its own even if it didn’t drive the Sennheiser as the C2C headamp does.


*5“Tweaks”*

 The Audio-gd FUN responds very well to tweaks. However, given its selling price, I don’t think it is wise recommending to future buyers sticking high priced power cords and digital cables to it. Anyway, one thing is for sure, it behaves like a “high-end” component and its sound can clearly be improved with good power filtration and interconnects.


*6Overall*

 The performance of the Version A (DIR9001 +AD1852 + ACSS + Diamond Buffer) is quite impressive for the price. Used a dac/headamp combo, the sound is quite good. Used a DAC with a variable output or as a Headphone amplifier the performance is excellent (given the price). 



*IIIReview of different modules*


*1Digital receivers*

CS8416

 The CS8416 is rather warm and fuzzy sounding and it is not very detailed. Also, when I compared it to the usb input there was little sonic improvement over it. 


DIR9001

 The DIR9001 is definitely better sounding, the portrayed images are a lot clearer (less fuzziness) and it has more bass weight. Overall, there is a lot more going on and the low level details (room ambiance, echoes and reverbs, …) that were masked with the CS8416 reappeared with the DIR9001. 


Usb vs. spdif

 I was very surprised by the quality of the usb input. Compared to the dac-100 and dac-19mk3, there is a definite improvement in performance. Using the Wireworld ultraviolet cable, the sound is not bad at all with the USB input but you just get more of everything when switching to the spdif input.


Overall

 Unless you own a huge library of recordings at 24/192, I would recommend sticking with the stock digital receiver 24/96. 
 The difference was apparent in my current system using the m2tech hiface + Oyaide or the Sobek digital cables. It could very well be less or more noticeable in other systems depending on the interaction of those components.


What I would like to see in future versions

 I really would to see future digital input modules with low jitter (like the DIR9001) and 24/192 support (CS8416). 
 Also, I wonder if there is a way to put an SRC board along with DIR. 


*2USB*

 For now there is only one choice, the PCM2706. For the future, it would be interesting to have a 24/96 capable usb module, maybe something based on the Tenor chip?


*3DACs*

AD1852

 The AD1852 offers a good amount of details compared to the WM8740 and it offers a well defined soundstage (deep and large). It is also more dynamic than the Wolfson DAC but it is a lot more forward and aggressive sounding. The leading edges of the notes are overemphasized which makes it a little bit “digital” sounding. 


WM8740

 In comparison to the AD1852, the WM8740 has a flatter soundstage. It has richer mids (with a bit of mid bass bloat ?). Overall, it is less detailed, less transparent to the recording. It has slowed transients with a perceived rolled off highs which give it a more analog like sound (but still not as good as what you get with pcm1704 based DACs)


Upsampling

 When using SoX upsampling (44.1 -> 88.2) it removed some of the digitis from both DA chips and especially the AD1852. When using 24/96 material, there is of course no need to using upsampling.
 By the way, my ears have become more sensitive to the digital edginess of dela-sigma DA chips since the time I have been listening to the dac19mk3 which is one of the most analog sounding dacs I have heard to date (along with the Audiomat Tempo DAC 2.5) which is using PCM1704uk chips.
 Anyway, with both DACs (AD1852, WM8740), the sound is much more enjoyable than the emu 0404 usb (which uses AK4397) and the less detailed and older dac-100.


Overall

 My favorite is the ad1852. It is very transparent which means that people should not use it with low bitrate mp3 or poorly mastered recordings. For that kind of files, the WM8740 is more suited as it would smooth over the leading edges notes of those low quality files and make the listening more bearable.


What I would like to see in future versions

 While the AD1852 was my favorite of the two, I can’t help but wonder if the WM8741 would do a better job than the WM8740. Ideally, I would like to see Audio-gd offer upgrade modules with the PCM1704 but I don’t know if that is even technically possible given the available space on the DAC board. Other DACs that come to mind are the AD1955, CS4398, AK4397 and PCM1794.


*4Opamps*

 I haven’t spent much time comparing opamps for this review, and I settled on the LM49720HA TO-99 (metal can version) because they are simply the best opamps I have heard to date. Some other opamps I had on hand were the Earth hdam, OPA627 (on adaptor), LM4562.


*5Gain Modules*

ACSS

 Compared to the Neutral module, the soundstage is bigger and most interestingly, it is pushed further back. The imaging is more three dimensional.
 The sound can be best described as smooth and relaxed. 
 The smoothness is not due to a roll off in the highs but to the natural balance of the sound and to the effortless portrayal of details and resolution. 
 The sound is very fast and clear yet it remains natural. There is no emphasis or substraction of anything. This means that if the recording is warm, you will hear warmth, and if the recording is dry you will hear it unfiltered and unprocessed. 
 Those looking for a neutral piece of equipment should probably get version A (ACSS) instead of Version B which uses regular voltage gain modules.


Neutral

 While the Neural module might be “more neutral” than the other voltage modules, it is definitely warmer sounding and colored in comparison with the ACSS module. 
 It seems less extended on top and has more mid-bass content. It has richer harmonics, and is “tubey” sounding compared to the ACSS. 
 It is not bad, and in fact it is very good on its own, but when it is compared to the ACSS module, it lacks details and seems to do more effort to get there. 
 It is however more forgiving. And I am sure better suited for people who like tubes but not too much coloration at the same time. This module avoids the midrange dryness that some solid state amps unfortunately have.


Musical
 (This part will be updated later)


Dynamic
 (This part will be updated later)


Overall

 Personally, I like the ACSS module. Its effortless yet very detailed portrayal of the sound is very addictive. It is neutral and also the closest sounding to the C2C headphone amp that I absolutely love and that uses the same current gain technology.
 I have to admit that I only have about 100 hours of burn-in (using the Isotek burn-in CD) on the Neutral module while I had about 100 hours (+whatever burn-in it got in the factory) on the ACSS module. However, I highly doubt any amount of burn-in will get it the Neutral to the level of transparency of the ACSS module which is probably why most of the higher end audio-gd products use the ACSS technology.
 I have yet to try the musical and dynamic module, and I will update my findings later.

What I would like to see in future versions

 I wish to see future ACSS modules with different flavors. It is nice to have the Neutral/Musical/Dynamic modules, but I would like to see the same choice for the ACSS modules.


*6Buffer modules*

Diamond output module

 The Diamond output module is linear (good balance between the mids, highs and lows) but rather clear sounding (less tonally dense than the FET module). 
 You get to see deeper into the soundstage and it has more air and better instrument separation than the FET module.
 Also, there seems to be more low level details and transients are faster. 
 Finally, it seemed to me that it had higher upper harmonics content when listening to instruments such as violins for example.
 However, if I had to be picky, I would say that it lacks the “fullness” of the sound that you get with the FET module or when using the C2C headphone amp for example. 

FET module output module

 The FET module is warmer and fuller sounding. It is tonally richer in the mids and overall more forgiving about the quality of the recording. The slowed transients make it seem like the top end is a little bit rolled off. 
 With the Sennheiser hd-650, it seemed to me that it had less drive capability than the Diamond output module. However, I don’t know if it is really a drive issue or more of the way I perceived dynamics between the two modules.

Overall

 The differences are rather subtle between the 2 modules. It doesn't alter dramatically the sound of the FUN unit but it allows to fine tune the sound of the system between the more linear and detailed Diamond and the warmer sounding FET module. 
 I perceived more differences between the two DACs (AD1852, WM8740) but unlike the added sharpness and edginess I heard when switching from the WM8740 to the AD1852, the Diamond module just seemed more linear without any emphasis on the leading edges of the notes one might expect from a clearer sounding design. 
 While I preferred the Diamond module with my silver cabled Sennheiser hd-650 when doing short listening sessions, I am not sure if I would settle on it on the long run. HD-650 owners that are still using them with the stock cable (or a smooth cable like the Moon Audio Blue Dragon) will probably go for the Diamond Module. Those using brighter cans or cables, would probably favor the FET module.


*IVConclusion*

 To sum up, I had a great time listening and trying to the Audio-gd FUN. It is a refreshing little unit that helped many things I have asking myself for a long time: are DAC chips audible, what about voltage vs. current gain, FET vs. other buffer topologies…? 

 It was also a reality check. I have spent so much time listening critically to my reference system that my mind was only able to focus tracking weaknesses. I had to use different tweaks to get the perfect tonal balance. The FUN, on the other hand, is a lot more versatile and easier to set-up in order to hit the perfect balance. 

 Finally, and as far as I could tell, the Audio-GD FUN offers excellent performance for the money. It is a versatile and modular little unit. It also has an excellent preamp section and very good DAC and headphone amp sections. In fact, this little unit is so good that I wonder if Audio-gd could make some of their higher end units with the same modularity as the FUN.



*Follow-up 01/02/10:
*
AD1852 DAC:
 After 300 hours+ of burn-in, some of the harshness I first noticed with the AD1852 is now gone. It still not as “sophisticated” and rich sounding as the dac19mk3 but I am comparing a unit that can work as a DAC/preamp/headphone with a pure DAC that is almost twice its price. Overall, I would say that I am very impressed with the sound of the AD1852 module. 
 One thing I failed to notice in my initial review it the jumpers in the AD1852 module (Kingwa, who read the review, e-mailed me to tell me I could try the second position of the jumper). 
 The result was subtle but audible. On the second jumper mode, I noticed that the sound became less processed, more airy and that the soundstage was pushed a little bit deeper. It is not a huge difference but every owner of the FUN should try both modes. Personally, I preferred the second position of the jumper but it is more of a matter of taste than superiority vs. inferiority in the two jumper modes. 


The Musical Module:
 In my opinion, the musical gain module is much more interesting than the Neutral gain module. As described by Audio-gd, it is warm sounding, with a rich mid-bass and a rolled off upper register. It is probably what people expect from tubes before they listen to them; at least it was what I imagined tubes would sound like before I bought the little dot MKIII. 
 Overall, the sound is smooth and syrupy whatever music is played with no hint of aggressiveness. It is a little bit too much for my taste but some people could be looking for that sound or it could be a good match with some bright sounding cans.
 The sound signature of the Musical module is the same whether the FUN is used as a headphone amp or as a DAC from the preamp output.

The DAC/preamp out mode and the ACSS gain module:
 After trying the Musical Module for a while as a DAC/headphone amp, I wanted to try the FUN as DAC (from its preamp output) and use the C2C as a headphone amp. The outcome was very disappointing: the soundstage was bigger than the internal amp but the sound was more diffused and lacked impact and density. Given the additional price of the C2C amp, silver wires, and the extra power cord, I think it is really not worth it to use the FUN with the voltage gain modules with an external amp.
 However, it was a totally different story when I put back the ACSS gain modules. The sound improvement was such that I found the FUN in the ACSS mode alone outperformed the FUN+C2C or the FUN alone with the musical mode. 
 Putting back the ACSS gain modules brought a new level of low level details, extension throughout the frequency extremes and refinement over the voltage gain modules. The sound was smooth not because it rolls the highs like the musical gain module but because it has less distortion.
 Those improvements were noticeable with the FUN used as a headphone amp as well as a DAC/preamp. In fact, when I paired the FUN with the C2C headphone amp I thought for a moment that the sound was as good as I had with the dac19mk3. When I did some A/B comparisons it was apparent that the dac19mk3 still had the edge but I was impressed about how good the FUN was sounding. If I didn’t have a better DAC to compare it with, it would be hard to find weaknesses listening to the FUN alone.


----------



## jcoops16

A nice in depth review, well done there.


----------



## rosgr63

Great thorough review slim.a, thanks for the time and effort, much appreciated.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jcoops16* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A nice in depth review, well done there._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rosgr63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great thorough review slim.a, thanks for the time and effort, much appreciated._

 

thanks guys


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I echo the others sentiments ....I feel I already know what to expect before ever laying hands on the dac/amp (Les and Curra having made valuable contributions to date with more to come as well). 

 That IMO is highest compliment one can pay to a fellow member for his no nonsense, informative, and highly readable approach.

 Looks like the only thing that won't be covered by the time mine arrives are the footers on the FUN chassis...self tapping screw or bolted on ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well done !

 Peete.


----------



## Helmore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I echo the others sentiments ....I feel I already know what to expect before ever laying hands on the dac/amp (Les and Curra having made valuable contributions to date with more to come as well). 

 That IMO is highest compliment one can pay to a fellow member for his no nonsense, informative, and highly readable approach.

 Looks like the only thing that won't be covered by the time mine arrives are the footers on the FUN chassis...self tapping screw or bolted on ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well done !

 Peete._

 

What about glued on footers? *hides behind his chair*

 Great write up slim.a, I really like it. You're not making my decisions easier though, now I also want to try a FUN and I had pretty much just decided to go with the DAC-19 + C-2 combo. It would be a little hard to get both.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I echo the others sentiments ....I feel I already know what to expect before ever laying hands on the dac/amp (Les and Curra having made valuable contributions to date with more to come as well). 

 That IMO is highest compliment one can pay to a fellow member for his no nonsense, informative, and highly readable approach.

 Looks like the only thing that won't be covered by the time mine arrives are the footers on the FUN chassis...self tapping screw or bolted on ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well done !

 Peete._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Helmore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about glued on footers? *hides behind his chair*

 Great write up slim.a, I really like it. You're not making my decisions easier though, now I also want to try a FUN and I had pretty much just decided to go with the DAC-19 + C-2 combo. It would be a little hard to get both._

 

Thanks guys for the comments. 

 Actually, I tried different footers under the FUN and I ended up preferring the Yamamoto PB-9 footers (see picture of the footers here)

 Helmore, as for the dac19 + C2 I would suggest to go for it if you can afford it. As good as the FUN is for its price class, it will probably be sonically outperformed by the dac19 + C2 but you won't have as many modules to play with ... it is a hard choice I guess


----------



## Currawong

As usual, you've written a useful write-up with many good points. I think one of the things lacking in the Compass which the FUN has made up for is that if you wanted a $350 DAC, with the Compass you were getting a bit of a compromise. If the FUN works unusually well using the pre-amp outputs as a DAC output as well, then that will make it good as a very flexible standalone DAC as well.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As usual, you've written a useful write-up with many good points. I think one of the things lacking in the Compass which the FUN has made up for is that if you wanted a $350 DAC, with the Compass you were getting a bit of a compromise. If the FUN works unusually well using the pre-amp outputs as a DAC output as well, then that will make it good as a very flexible standalone DAC as well._

 

Thanks. I really feel that the FUN is an excellent DAC. Using the Line out ouput, it clearly pulls ahead from the DAC-100 and EMU 0404 usb. I guess that those extra gain and buffer stages really benefit the sound.

 This reminds me of what people have reported using the Burson Buffer between their dacs and amps. Even if it is counterintuitive, adding a buffer between the DAC and the amp really improves the transparency, dynamics and soundstage. 

 Also, the fact, that the volume control doesn't decrease the resolution is really impressive. Speaker users can probably build minimalistic systems around the FUN by using power amps or even powered speakers.

 @ Currawong and Pricklely Peete: I am most interested in your findings about the DAC/preamp function as well as your findings about the unit in general. My review is just one point of view. Getting different perspectives from experienced listener would be most interesting and instructive.


----------



## slim.a

A little update on the DAC out vs Line Out :

 I have just received an email from Kingwa explaining to me the difference between the two outputs.

 When he first built the DAC100 (the dac section of the Compass), he was supposing that most people would be using them with IC chips (opa2134, ...) so he built an extra FET buffer stage following the opamp. 

 When he built the FUN, he assumed that most people would use the FUN with one of his opamps. According to Kingwa his opamps have alread FET output buffers built inside. So he built the DAC without that extra buffer stage.

 From what I understand, the Earth, Moon and Sun HDAMs will probably work better from the DAC out than the LM49720HA (metal can version) I tried on the DAC.

 However, when I used the line out (with ACSS gain and Diamond buffer), the sound was much much better than any opamp I got on the older DAC100 (whether using the Earth hdam or IC opamps). Personally, I prefer to use the neutral and very detailed LM49720HA as an opamp and adjust the sound with different gain and buffer modules (I have yet to try the ACSS + Fet module on the Line Out and the Musical + Diamond combination ...) rather than use a colored opamp. Overall, there seems to be countless possiblities ... This little unit is very time consuming and addictive !


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks slim.a 

 You've raised some key aspects that I can certainly give much useful test time to and try to answer the questions raised (preamp/volume DAC function I can run straight into my XOver) and from there distro'd to the 4 power amps that comprise the ref system's muscle and then on to the planar/ribbon/sub arrays. Having a reference marker to compare the FUN against will make my job easier this time around.

 Don't sell yourself short slim.a you've got a great/solid grip on the fundamentals of evaluating gear (from both the aural and the technical aspects of the obsession and I think without some dedication to the 2 sides of that same coin the proper conclusions are much harder to make). However I feel you have that down pat.... Ultimately we are only limited by the gear we are exposed to and a key element to growth as a reviewer and general fan of music/gear/tech IMO is that willingness to absorb as much info as possible, which is something that even old farts like myself have to contend with on a daily, weekly, monthly basis to try and keep current with the torrid pace of advancement in thought, concept, and execution of said obsession pieces. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: Got rid of pointless statement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


 PS: It seems that having that tooth pulled last Sat has uncorked a literary log jam in my brain. Although ADD still gives me some trouble from....Hey Look ! a chicken ----->


----------



## Helmore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*snip*I suppose you could say that audio gear and the science behind it is likely the most re-invented wheel in the history of the 20th/21st century ....cable tech alone no doubt.

 Peete.*snip, not need for distractions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*_

 

That seems a pretty big statement to make. What about the food, cosmetics, computers, cars, TVs, mobile phones, watches/clocks and many many other industries? 

 I'm not saying you're wrong, you could very likely be right. I don't think your intention was to make a conclusion, but more of a statement and that makes my nitpicking a anal though. I don't want to be anal, but I guess can be a bit finicky most of the time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I'm getting off topic though. Let's just have some more FUN in this thread.


----------



## littletree76

Slim.a,

 Thank you for the informative review.

 Going through the FUN webpage, I realize that user can configure combination of four jumpers located in input buffer stage for sound favor: Neutral, Soft1, Soft2 and Soft3.

 With default configuration of version A and OPA2134 opamp replaced by OPA-Earth HDAM module in DAC output stage, I suspect the sound will become overwhelmingly neutral. So I guess I can tweak the sound with jumpers mentioned above.

 Do you think following combination is a good compromise for sound coloration?

 FUN version A:
 Default DIR9001 receiver, DA1852 DAC, ACSS Gain, Diamound Output.
 OPA-Earth module in DAC output stage.

 Favor jumper setting:
 Soft1 (J6L and J6R on and J7L and J7R off).

 I don't quite convinced on using interconnect/power cables to achieve sound coloration while maintaining neutral sound for FUN DAC/amplifier as suggested by Kingwa in his Audio-GD website.

 Thanks in advance.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A little update on the DAC out vs Line Out :

 From what I understand, the Earth, Moon and Sun HDAMs will probably work better from the DAC out than the LM49720HA (metal can version) I tried on the DAC.

 However, when I used the line out (with ACSS gain and Diamond buffer), the sound was much much better than any opamp I got on the older DAC100 (whether using the Earth hdam or IC opamps). Personally, I prefer to use the neutral and very detailed LM49720HA as an opamp and adjust the sound with different gain and buffer modules (I have yet to try the ACSS + Fet module on the Line Out and the Musical + Diamond combination ...) rather than use a colored opamp. Overall, there seems to be countless possiblities ... This little unit is very time consuming and addictive !_


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *littletree76* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Slim.a,

 Thank you for the informative review.

 Going through the FUN webpage, I realize that user can configure combination of four jumpers located in input buffer stage for sound favor: Neutral, Soft1, Soft2 and Soft3.

 With default configuration of version A and OPA2134 opamp replaced by OPA-Earth HDAM module in DAC output stage, I suspect the sound will become overwhelmingly neutral. So I guess I can tweak the sound with jumpers mentioned above.

 Do you think following combination is a good compromise for sound coloration?

 FUN version A:
 Default DIR9001 receiver, DA1852 DAC, ACSS Gain, Diamound Output.
 OPA-Earth module in DAC output stage.

 Favor jumper setting:
 Soft1 (J6L and J6R on and J7L and J7R off).

 I don't quite convinced on using interconnect/power cables to achieve sound coloration while maintaining neutral sound for FUN DAC/amplifier as suggested by Kingwa in his Audio-GD website.

 Thanks in advance._

 

Hi littletree76,

 I have to admit that there was so many things to try that I didn't play around yet with the jumbers because they could have involved even more burn-in before the sound settled.

 As for recommending a specific setting, it will depend on both the cans you are using and your personal taste. By the way, what headphones will you be using ?

 Concerning the FUN, I found it neutral but not sterile. Neutral doesn't necessarily mean it is boring. It just means that it has less coloration than other gear. It means that you listen more to the music itself than to your equipment. 

 However, if I had to give an advice, I would advice you to first try it with Neutral jumper settings and only after that try the softer settings if you feel the highs are too hot for your cans.


----------



## littletree76

I will be using my favorite headphone Denon D5000 (mod with Beyerdynamic DT880 pad to tighten the bass) with the headphone amplifier. As for speakers, I will be using Virtue Audio's Virtue ONE class T amplifier to drive a pair of Klipsch RB-51 satellite speaker and an active Boston Acoustic XB4 subwoofer. Probably Line Output (rather than DAC Output) of FUN will be used to feed line input of the Virtue ONE power amplifier.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As for recommending a specific setting, it will depend on both the cans you are using and your personal taste. By the way, what headphones will you be using ?

 Concerning the FUN, I found it neutral but not sterile. Neutral doesn't necessarily mean it is boring. It just means that it has less coloration than other gear. It means that you listen more to the music itself than to your equipment. 

 However, if I had to give an advice, I would advice you to first try it with Neutral jumper settings and only after that try the softer settings if you feel the highs are too hot for your cans._


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *littletree76* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be using my favorite headphone Denon D5000 (mod with Beyerdynamic DT880 pad to tighten the bass) with the headphone amplifier. As for speakers, I will be using Virtue Audio's Virtue ONE class T amplifier to drive a pair of Klipsch RB-51 satellite speaker and an active Boston Acoustic XB4 subwoofer. Probably Line Output (rather than DAC Output) of FUN will be used to feed line input of the Virtue ONE power amplifier._

 

I didn't try the Denon d5000 in the FUN, but if I had to guess, I would say that it should work fine with the default setting and Earth HDAM. I don't think it would be necessary to use the soft settings unless you are using some very bright headphones.

 On another subject, I asked Kingwa if they were planning to add new modules and he said that he _might_ add in the future the PCM1704UK dac module if there is enough demand for the FUN. The only weakness I found in the DAC is the slight "digitis" that is common to all delta sigma dac chips I have listened to (cd players and dacs costing to up to $5000). If he can provide the PCM1704UK chip in an entry level it would be very very interesting.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Helmore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That seems a pretty big statement to make. What about the food, cosmetics, computers, cars, TVs, mobile phones, watches/clocks and many many other industries? 

 I'm not saying you're wrong, you could very likely be right. I don't think your intention was to make a conclusion, but more of a statement and that makes my nitpicking a anal though. I don't want to be anal, but I guess can be a bit finicky most of the time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 I'm getting off topic though. Let's just have some more FUN in this thread._

 

I think we may have a slight misunderstanding here (PM me if you want a detailed explanation behind why I feel that way)......I'll remove the remark.

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ The only weakness I found in the DAC is the slight "digitis" that is common to all delta sigma dac chips I have listened to (cd players and dacs costing to up to $5000). If he can provide the PCM1704UK chip in an entry level it would be very very interesting._

 

I suspect some harshness may be related to the power supply. To get real smoothness, if my understanding is correct, you need a very high quality power supply. After listening with the Ref 1/Phoenix, any other SS gear tends to sound harsh or dull. The default "A" set-up is a bit harsh to me with bright headphones, so I have to switch to the Wolfson DAC, FET modules etc. to counter that. With other headphones I don't need to.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Just out of curiosity, did anyone try out the FUN with Kingwa's power cable? 

 I remembered on the Compass, the change in sound quality from switching the stock power cord to Kingwa's is quite noticeable. It sounded like the instruments gained an additional wieght oof tone and body, and everything sounded clearer. Not sure how to put it since I am still learning how to evaluate all these sound quality changes....Just my experience with Kingwa's stuff....although it might be pretty expensive to get his cable just for the FUN..


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Deleted...double post....


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suspect some harshness may be related to the power supply. To get real smoothness, if my understanding is correct, you need a very high quality power supply. After listening with the Ref 1/Phoenix, any other SS gear tends to sound harsh or dull. The default "A" set-up is a bit harsh to me with bright headphones, so I have to switch to the Wolfson DAC, FET modules etc. to counter that. With other headphones I don't need to._

 

Agreed, high quality power is what gets you real smoothness. In my testing of the FUN, I found out that using power filtration can definitely reduce the harshness.
 However, I think it also due to the digital filtering at 16/44.1. When I upsampled to 24/88.2 or played native 24/96 files, that slight harshness was reduced. 
 I noticed the harshness because I was picky and also because I had a better DAC to compare it with. In more general comparisons, the FUN is a lot smoother and natural sounding than the EMU 0404 usb or some mid level CD/DVD players I have listened to.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhythmic_impulse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just out of curiosity, did anyone try out the FUN with Kingwa's power cable? 

 I remembered on the Compass, the change in sound quality from switching the stock power cord to Kingwa's is quite noticeable. It sounded like the instruments gained an additional wieght oof tone and body, and everything sounded clearer. Not sure how to put it since I am still learning how to evaluate all these sound quality changes....Just my experience with Kingwa's stuff....although it might be pretty expensive to get his cable just for the FUN.._

 

Switching power cords changes the sound noticeably. I don't have the Audio-gd power cord so I can't comment on it. During my testing I tried it with two aftermarket power cords : an Olflex (35€) and PowertransPlus (180€/meter). The Olflex brought a slight improvement over the stock cord (it sounded clearer and less fuzzy). The PowertransPlus on the other hand, brought a huge improvement in low level details, naturalness of tone, size and layering of the soundstage and bass depth. 
 So yes, the power cord will change the sound but I have no idea if the audio-gd power cord is a good value or not and if it is worth buying. But in my experience with audio-gd gear, it is always worth it to spend a little bit on power cords and interconnects. If you use the FUN with regular power cords and interconnects, it will sound very good but it would be only a fraction of what it could sound with a proper power cord and interconnects.


----------



## SoFGR

i'm sold on your comparisons between power trans plus and olflex, but i'm still using a regular APC power surge, plus i'm kinda short on cash, so i'm thinking of buying 2 olflex cords for the 19mk3 and c2c, is this the cable you were talking about ? 

2m Absolute High End Netzkabel Lapp Ã–lflex Power Cable (aukcja 370167021587) - aukcje eBay.pl | Zakupy bez granic!


----------



## Mad Max

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhythmic_impulse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just out of curiosity, did anyone try out the FUN with Kingwa's power cable? 

 I remembered on the Compass, the change in sound quality from switching the stock power cord to Kingwa's is quite noticeable. It sounded like the instruments gained an additional wieght oof tone and body, and everything sounded clearer. Not sure how to put it since I am still learning how to evaluate all these sound quality changes....Just my experience with Kingwa's stuff....although it might be pretty expensive to get his cable just for the FUN.._

 

The SoniKLEER cord synergizes much, much better with the Compass than Audio-gd's own power cord (and it's cheaper), so I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same with the FUN. Many more of those little sonic benefits to be had from the SoniKLEER.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm sold on your comparisons between power trans plus and olflex, but i'm still using a regular APC power surge, plus i'm kinda short on cash, so i'm thinking of buying 2 olflex cords for the 19mk3 and c2c, is this the cable you were talking about ? 

2m Absolute High End Netzkabel Lapp Ã–lflex Power Cable (aukcja 370167021587) - aukcje eBay.pl | Zakupy bez granic!_

 

The Olflex I tried in my system was this one : 2m Basic High End Lapp Ã–lflex Netzkabel Power Cable en vente sur eBay.fr (fin le 22-fÃ©vr.-10 08:27:46 Paris)
 The one you found is a slightly improved version. So I guess it should work as well too.

 By the way, I have found that entry level power surge/filters (such as the Belkin PureAV that I have) can in fact degrade the sound quality of hi-fi gear and especially the Audio-gd gear. Before I bought the (filterless) Supra jentech Mains Block and later the BADA filter, I preferred using a €10 mains multiplier (like this one) instead of plugging my gear to the Belkin PureAV.


----------



## slim.a

*Follow-up 01/02/10:
*
AD1852 DAC:
 After 300 hours+ of burn-in, some of the harshness I first noticed with the AD1852 is now gone. It still not as “sophisticated” and rich sounding as the dac19mk3 but I am comparing a unit that can work as a DAC/preamp/headphone with a pure DAC that is almost twice its price. Overall, I would say that I am very impressed with the sound of the AD1852 module. 
 One thing I failed to notice in my initial review it the jumpers in the AD1852 module (Kingwa, who read the review, e-mailed me to tell me I could try the second position of the jumper). 
 The result was subtle but audible. On the second jumper mode, I noticed that the sound became less processed, more airy and that the soundstage was pushed a little bit deeper. It is not a huge difference but every owner of the FUN should try both modes. Personally, I preferred the second position of the jumper but it is more of a matter of taste than superiority vs. inferiority in the two jumper modes. 


The Musical Module:
 In my opinion, the musical gain module is much more interesting than the Neutral gain module. As described by Audio-gd, it is warm sounding, with a rich mid-bass and a rolled off upper register. It is probably what people expect from tubes before they listen to them; at least it was what I imagined tubes would sound like before I bought the little dot MKIII. 
 Overall, the sound is smooth and syrupy whatever music is played with no hint of aggressiveness. It is a little bit too much for my taste but some people could be looking for that sound or it could be a good match with some bright sounding cans.
 The sound signature of the Musical module is the same whether the FUN is used as a headphone amp or as a DAC from the preamp output.

The DAC/preamp out mode and the ACSS gain module:
 After trying the Musical Module for a while as a DAC/headphone amp, I wanted to try the FUN as DAC (from its preamp output) and use the C2C as a headphone amp. The outcome was very disappointing: the soundstage was bigger than the internal amp but the sound was more diffused and lacked impact and density. Given the additional price of the C2C amp, silver wires, and the extra power cord, I think it is really not worth it to use the FUN with the voltage gain modules with an external amp.
 However, it was a totally different story when I put back the ACSS gain modules. The sound improvement was such that I found the FUN in the ACSS mode alone outperformed the FUN+C2C or the FUN alone with the musical mode. 
 Putting back the ACSS gain modules brought a new level of low level details, extension throughout the frequency extremes and refinement over the voltage gain modules. The sound was smooth not because it rolls the highs like the musical gain module but because it has less distortion.
 Those improvements were noticeable with the FUN used as a headphone amp as well as a DAC/preamp. In fact, when I paired the FUN with the C2C headphone amp I thought for a moment that the sound was as good as I had with the dac19mk3. When I did some A/B comparisons it was apparent that the dac19mk3 still had the edge but I was impressed about how good the FUN was sounding. If I didn’t have a better DAC to compare it with, it would be hard to find weaknesses listening to the FUN alone.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The FUN ("A" version, AD1852,ACSS stages, Neutral output stages,DIR9001 receiver module) was well received at the mini meet I attended this past Saturday (even though it wasn't fully burned in). The concept was tough to explain but once the idea behind it sunk in that became a point of great interest and a definite plus. A number of attendees had/have Compass units with the general consensus nearly unanimous that the FUN is a worthy successor to the Compass. I agree. How much better is it ? That's yet to be determined but I will put the units head to head in a couple of weeks to see where the areas of improvement lie.

 As far as current discussion is concerned I have always believed in the concept of a decent mains cable making a difference....the hard part is finding the right one at the right price. 

 Peete.

 PS: Interesting follow up notes slim.a I need to look at the AD1852 module for that jumper you speak of and give er a try. Thanks for the tip. As a side note the AD1852 is one of the better sigma delta chips made which is why it continues to have a solid following despite many iterations or generations having been made since it's introduction a few years back. I think 1998 it was first offered but I can't sure of that.


----------



## jimmychan

I think the ACSS is the best companion over other voltage gain module in Fun.


----------



## littletree76

I have finally received version A of FUN DAC/amplifier with OPA-Earth HDAM and it has gone through 300 hours of burn-in (100 hours in factory and 200 hours at installation site). After the burn-in and using jumpers to set sound favor to Soft1 (jumpers J6L/J6R on and jumpers J7L/J7R off) and hardware sampling rate to 96KHz instead of default 192KHz on DA1852 DAC module, I am really pleased with sound stage and instrument separation.

 According to data sheet of AD1852, jumper settings on DA1852 DAC module are meant for selecting hardware sampling rate through pin 7 (192KHz/48KHz) and pin 10 (96KHz/48KHz) of AD1852 chip. When jumper is on, the pin will be pulled to low logic level whereas when jumper is off, the pin will be pulled to high logic level. So when the jumper is moved from pin 10 to pin 7 as suggested by Slim.a (recommended by Kingwa), effectively hardware sampling rate is reduced from 192KHz to 96KHz.

 How change of hardware sampling rate of AD1852 can affect sound stage is beyond my knowledge, perhaps Kingwa has something to add and correct me if there is any error in above description (it is solely based on AD1852 data sheet and DAC module's circuit topology without any verification).


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *littletree76* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have finally received version A of FUN DAC/amplifier with OPA-Earth HDAM and it has gone through 300 hours of burn-in (100 hours in factory and 200 hours at installation site). After the burn-in and using jumpers to set sound favor to Soft1 (jumpers J6L/J6R on and jumpers J7L/J7R off) and hardware sampling rate to 96KHz instead of default 192KHz on DA1852 DAC module, I am really pleased with sound stage and instrument separation.

 According to data sheet of AD1852, jumper settings on DA1852 DAC module are meant for selecting hardware sampling rate through pin 7 (192KHz/48KHz) and pin 10 (96KHz/48KHz) of AD1852 chip. When jumper is on, the pin will be pulled to low logic level whereas when jumper is off, the pin will be pulled to high logic level. So when the jumper is moved from pin 10 to pin 7 as suggested by Slim.a (recommended by Kingwa), effectively hardware sampling rate is reduced from 192KHz to 96KHz.

 How change of hardware sampling rate of AD1852 can affect sound stage is beyond my knowledge, perhaps Kingwa has something to add and correct me if there is any error in above description (it is solely based on AD1852 data sheet and DAC module's circuit topology without any verification)._

 

Thanks for the explanation. Kingwa told me to try both modes without giving me any precision. I will email him about the digital filtering in both modes and I will report back.


----------



## Palpatine

thanks for the review!! It confirmed my belief that the DAC19 was the one I really wanted.


----------



## slim.a

I have just received Kingwa's answer to the 2 AD1852 jumper settings.

 Here is what he said : "_At default, it is 2X oversampling and input allow 192KHz. At another setting is 4X oversampling and input highest 96KHz_."

 So the fact that there is an oversampling difference between the 2 modes explains the differences I heard.
 Also, looking at page 9 of the data sheet, there is a difference in the frequency response between the 2 modes. 

 I will try to confirm that by playing 192K files to determine which is which.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks for the info on the jumper settings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## EntropyQ3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just received Kingwa's answer to the 2 AD1852 jumper settings.

 Here is what he said : "At default, it is 2X oversampling and input allow 192KHz. At another setting is 4X oversampling and input highest 96KHz."

 So the fact that there is an oversampling difference between the 2 modes explains the differences I heard.
 Also, looking at page 9 of the data sheet, there is a difference in the frequency response between the 2 modes. 

 I will try to confirm that by playing 192K files to determine which is which._

 

If you can confirm a difference, it's probably not due to frequency response per se, but some other consequence of the differences in processing. There are basically no differences in frequency response in the audible band.


----------



## Currawong

If one is using the DIR9000, which only accepts up to 96k input, I'd definitely go with the 4x oversampling. That might explain why the Compass tended to sound a bit harsh to some people.

 I plugged my HD-800s in last night and this morning, and hooked up my Onkyo DV-SP502 SACD 3 way into the Fun to compare things. Firstly via the line in (it uses a BB PC1792 DAC with LM4560 OPAMPs), via optical via a Synergistic Research cable a friend gave me and via coax. I felt there wasn't any significant difference between my Onkyo's line out and the Fun's DAC (using the OPA Earth) using the built-in headphone amp in A (ACSS) modem, though the FUN's DAC had a slight edge over the Onkyo. It's also that the Onkyo is a surprisingly decent-sounding player, being a re-badged Pioneer DV-588a, which had a good reputation as a budget SACD player.

 Interestingly, the first time I tried HD-800s with the FUN, I felt it was a poor match, with the music sounding congested. Of course I'm used to a much higher-end rig, so this wasn't such a surprise. However, after another few days left switched on, the Fun seems to have opened up and some of the harshness has gone, making it much more listen-able than at the start.


----------



## littletree76

So far I am pleased with the FUN after 300 hours of burn-in (it really need burn-in before review), I like it's sound more than combination of Cambridge Audio's DACmagic DAC (no headphone output) and Grapham Slee's Novo headphone amplifier in the same spot of audio system with same power amplifier, speakers and headphone. It has saved space in congested audio cabinet as well.

 To be constructive and to benefit of those who are looking for affordable (around USD 300) DAC and headphone amplifier combo unit, FUN should be compared with other similar products of about the same price rather than dedicated DAC costing few times more than FUN. Looking forward to this kind of comparison as I have one more DAC/amplifier combo unit to purchase.

 FUN
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 Compass (predecessor of FUN)
 I wonder how much different between FUN and Compass as information on Compass has been removed from Audio-GD website.
ºÍ§Ó*µ响

 Beresford Caiman
Home HI-FI

 Matrix mini-i
Welcome to Audiophilechina

 Zero (upgraded version)
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Good point Curra. I need to pop the lid and set it to 4X but I'm too lazy to do it tonight. I'm enjoying it quite a bit more than I expected to. It's pretty close to the C-2C in performance which is somewhat surprising but I did expect some resemblance to the FUN's bigger brother because of the ACSS stages. It lacks for little I feel, sins of omission rather than sins of commission. It has a wider sound stage than the Compass had. Tomorrow I will give it a go as preamp in the main ref system and see how it does. I still don't have enough hours on it to make a final determination however. I will continue to run it in for the next week or so which should get me close to the number needed. It has changed quite a bit from the first listen, much more open and relaxed, showing a clean and honest presentation with no emphasis in any one particular part of the frequency spectrum which frankly I expect from A-gd gear by now. So far so good though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just received Kingwa's answer to the 2 AD1852 jumper settings.

 Here is what he said : "At default, it is 2X oversampling and input allow 192KHz. At another setting is 4X oversampling and input highest 96KHz."

 So the fact that there is an oversampling difference between the 2 modes explains the differences I heard.
 Also, looking at page 9 of the data sheet, there is a difference in the frequency response between the 2 modes. 

 I will try to confirm that by playing 192K files to determine which is which._

 

I received an update from Kingwa on the subject of jumpers. He says :
 "_I have test two mode but both can allow 192K input while I test the FUN a some months ago.
 I think maybe the AD1852 files had some wrong or define unclear_."

 So when he told me that the 4x mode was limited to 96k, he was making reference to the datasheet.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EntropyQ3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you can confirm a difference, it's probably not due to frequency response per se, but some other consequence of the differences in processing. There are basically no differences in frequency response in the audible band._

 

Agreed. A difference of less than 1db at 20k is probably inaudible (at least, to my ears). However, if you look at the graphs, you will see that the 2x setting has a "gentle" roll-off and the 4x setting has a sharp roll-off. So there is probably a bigger difference in the phase response, handling of transients, ...


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *littletree76* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far I am pleased with the FUN after 300 hours of burn-in (it really need burn-in before review), I like it's sound more than combination of Cambridge Audio's DACmagic DAC (no headphone output) and Grapham Slee's Novo headphone amplifier in the same spot of audio system with same power amplifier, speakers and headphone. It has saved space in congested audio cabinet as well.

 To be constructive and to benefit of those who are looking for affordable (around USD 300) DAC and headphone amplifier combo unit, FUN should be compared with other similar products of about the same price rather than dedicated DAC costing few times more than FUN. Looking forward to this kind of comparison as I have one more DAC/amplifier combo unit to purchase.

 FUN
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 Compass (predecessor of FUN)
 I wonder how much different between FUN and Compass as information on Compass has been removed from Audio-GD website.
ºÍ§Ó*µ响

 Beresford Caiman
Home HI-FI

 Matrix mini-i
Welcome to Audiophilechina

 Zero (upgraded version)
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices_

 

As a DAC, I found the FUN a lot better than the Zero DAC, the EMU 0404 USB and the DAC-100 (compass dac).

 As a headphone amp, I found the FUN has a lot more drive, details and clarity than the Little Dot mkIII.

 However, it is always interesting (in my opinion) to compare a component to better ones because it will highlight its weaknesses. I think that most people are more sensitive to the weaknesses rather than the strengths of a component in the long run. For example, I would rather listen through the Little Dot mkIII than a "high-resolution" edgy solid state amp. Even if the Little dot mkIII is not the most impressive amp I have heard, it doesn't have big weaknesses/faults, so I can live with it.

 By the way, after 400 hours+ of burn-in, the FUN doesn't seem to have weaknesses/faults in comparison with the better gear I have. It lacks perhaps slightly in the drive, low level details and frequency extension compared to better gear. But it remains natural and honest sounding (as described by Pricklely Peete).


----------



## sfrancis

@slim.a: thanks for the detailed review. From what you have written, it appears that FUN has enough power to drive a high impedance headphone as HD650. Just bought a HD650 and still debating whether I should get a DAC (to use with Squeezebox Classic) first or should I get an AMP (e.g. LD mkIII) first. It looks like that with FUN I had a good DAC and a quite decent amp ?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfrancis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@slim.a: thanks for the detailed review. From what you have written, it appears that FUN has enough power to drive a high impedance headphone as HD650. Just bought a HD650 and still debating whether I should get a DAC (to use with Squeezebox Classic) first or should I get an AMP (e.g. LD mkIII) first. It looks like that with FUN I had a good DAC and a quite decent amp ?_

 

If you are using the sennheiser hd650, you will need a good source as well as a good amp for them to shine. The FUN fits perfectly the bill being an excellent dac and headphone amp combo (at this price level of course). In my opinion, I would rather listen to the FUN alone instead of the dac19mk3+artisan silver cables+LD MKIII. 
 There are of course other alternatives out there but since I didn't try them, I can't comment on them.

 Anyway, if you intend to get the FUN, I would highly recommend the A version (with the ACSS gain module). Of course, you can buy the other modules to try them but if you have to pick one, I recommend the ACSS version.


----------



## sfrancis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are using the sennheiser hd650, you will need a good source as well as a good amp for them to shine. The FUN fits perfectly the bill being an excellent dac and headphone amp combo (at this price level of course). In my opinion, I would rather listen to the FUN alone instead of the dac19mk3+artisan silver cables+LD MKIII. 
 There are of course other alternatives out there but since I didn't try them, I can't comment on them.

 Anyway, if you intend to get the FUN, I would highly recommend the A version (with the ACSS gain module). Of course, you can buy the other modules to try them but if you have to pick one, I recommend the ACSS version._

 

Thanks for the advice. After reading your review on FUN and your other review on DAC-19, I think I may just go for what you have in your signature, i.e., get a DAC-19 and C2C and not come back to this forum for a while.


----------



## sinner6

I have the Compass and am looking to get a second setup for the bedroom. I had been considering a smaller setup like the iBasso D10, but I am skeptical that such a device could sound as good as the Compass. Is the difference between FUN and Compass very big? Can anyone compare this to a D10?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinner6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the Compass and am looking to get a second setup for the bedroom. I had been considering a smaller setup like the iBasso D10, but I am skeptical that such a device could sound as good as the Compass. Is the difference between FUN and Compass very big? Can anyone compare this to a D10?_

 

I can't compare to a D10, but it's a significantly more detailed device than the Compass was. I've spent some time A-Bing all the mods and all the HDAMs with it and the Compass. This is the NextGen Compass and made advancements in all areas. 

 The Compass are Pound for Pound best in class to my experience. I haven't decided which module I like the best in it yet. The Earth is the best "overall" of the HDAMs in it to me. However the other two aren't bad either.

 It does have some size to it though.


----------



## sinner6

Thank You for your thoughts. 

 I see that Pacific Valve is now selling an upgraded FUN, that includes the SUN HDAM in the DAC output and the FET output for the amp. Any thoughts on this specific setup? Would this be an appropriate configuration to drive Denon D2000 and D5000 headphones, possibly 2 sets at once when my wife joins me?


----------



## johangrb

I own both the D10 & the FUN - no contest IMO. The D10 is a good portable setup (it makes a huge difference from my Macbook), but the FUN is waaaayyy better. Esp. w HD650's - the D10 (even in high gain mode) doesn't wake up the Hd650's. (the D10 works fine w my UE TF10's though).


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinner6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank You for your thoughts. 

 I see that Pacific Valve is now selling an upgraded FUN, that includes the SUN HDAM in the DAC output and the FET output for the amp. Any thoughts on this specific setup? Would this be an appropriate configuration to drive Denon D2000 and D5000 headphones, possibly 2 sets at once when my wife joins me?_

 

I have the D5000 as well. It drives them well. For "Me", the SUN sizzles too much on the mids and up top. This gets fatiguing quick. IMHO. The Earth is a good all around match.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinner6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank You for your thoughts. 

 I see that Pacific Valve is now selling an upgraded FUN, that includes the SUN HDAM in the DAC output and the FET output for the amp. Any thoughts on this specific setup? Would this be an appropriate configuration to drive Denon D2000 and D5000 headphones, possibly 2 sets at once when my wife joins me?_

 

Hi,

 I just wanted to point out that there is nothing special nor upgraded about the unit Pacific Valve is selling. They are just using the FET output buffer instead of the stock diamond one. In my opinion, the asking price for the "FUN Pacific Valve Version" is not justified. The FET module costs only $15 more than the Diamond module. So does it really justify a $90 increase in price between their stock and "upgraded" model? In my opinion, it does not.


----------



## sinner6

Ok, I just ordered a "version A" model from Pacific Valve. I see this uses a Burr Brown OPA2134 in the DAC output rather than an HDAM. Hopefully, it's not a major step down from a discrete opamp.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinner6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I just ordered a "version A" model from Pacific Valve. I see this uses a Burr Brown OPA2134 in the DAC output rather than an HDAM. Hopefully, it's not a major step down from a discrete opamp._

 

I've got some Opamps to roll on it, just haven't got around to it yet.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't compare to a D10, but it's a significantly more detailed device than the Compass was. I've spent some time A-Bing all the mods and all the HDAMs with it and the Compass. This is the NextGen Compass and made advancements in all areas._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johangrb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I own both the D10 & the FUN - no contest IMO. The D10 is a good portable setup (it makes a huge difference from my Macbook), but the FUN is waaaayyy better. Esp. w HD650's - the D10 (even in high gain mode) doesn't wake up the Hd650's. (the D10 works fine w my UE TF10's though)._

 

I need to get my Compass back to be sure, so for now I'm talking on memory, so don't take my comments for granted, but I do feel the Fun A-mode is a significant improvement. I was comparing the DAC section (using an Earth HDAM) with my Ref 1 using the Phoenix and a Stax rig and was surprised at how good it sounded A/B'ing. I always believe the Compass was a better DAC than headphone amp, and I still feel this way about the Fun. After switching around the digital input chips, I felt this is because of the DIR9001 primarily, but possibly also because of other changes Kingwa might have made to the design. Previously I though the DAC-200, which was a Compass DAC with a better power supply would have possibly made a good standalone DAC, but now I feel the Fun would make a good DAC by itself, without being compromised by being a combined DAC/amp. There's also the benefit of being able to use the pre-amp out as a DAC output, which might better match with some amps. Some of my good feeling probably comes from the amps I'm using, as the Audio-gd DACs seem to match well with Stax amps.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need to get my Compass back to be sure, so for now I'm talking on memory, so don't take my comments for granted, but I do feel the Fun A-mode is a significant improvement. I was comparing the DAC section (using an Earth HDAM) with my Ref 1 using the Phoenix and a Stax rig and was surprised at how good it sounded A/B'ing. I always believe the Compass was a better DAC than headphone amp, and I still feel this way about the Fun. After switching around the digital input chips, I felt this is because of the DIR9001 primarily, but possibly also because of other changes Kingwa might have made to the design. Previously I though the DAC-200, which was a Compass DAC with a better power supply would have possibly made a good standalone DAC, but now I feel the Fun would make a good DAC by itself, without being compromised by being a combined DAC/amp. There's also the benefit of being able to use the pre-amp out as a DAC output, which might better match with some amps. Some of my good feeling probably comes from the amps I'm using, as the Audio-gd DACs seem to match well with Stax amps._

 

I was also very surprised by the sound quality of the FUN as DAC when run from its preamp output and when using the ACSS gain module. Compared with the DAC-100 (compass DAC section), it is a much better DAC. 

 If I were to give numbers, I would say that if the dac-19mk3 would get 100, the dac-100 would get 50 and the FUN would get 75. Of course, numbers do not mean much, but it is just to say, that the FUN is halfway between the DAC-100/Compass and the DAC-19mk3 which makes an excellent value for the dac alone. Given that the headphone amp is very good, it is truly an excellent value product (with the ACSS gain module/version A).

 Also, the fact that it doesn't loose resolution when used as a DAC/preamp makes it a very good choice for connecting it directly to a power amp or powered speakers. For example, to get a similar (or better) result with the dac19mk3, I would need to buy a high quality preamp and a additional set of high quality interconnects and power cable. Anyway, I would be very intersted in Pricklely Peete findings about the FUN in his speaker system.


----------



## muad

I currently own a maverick d1 which cost me around $200. Its the same dac/preamp as the Grant Fidelity Tube DAC-09 and XiangSheng DAC-01A. Now Im wondering if getting the fun would be an improvement? Kingwa seems to really care about his products and seems very enthusiastic. Leads me to believe this is probably the best sound I can get at this price point.

 Another question, if I predominantly us this for the line out to my powered a5 speakers would the acss unit provide any benefit? Or is the acss for the headphone out?

 thanks


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I currently own a maverick d1 which cost me around $200. Its the same dac/preamp as the Grant Fidelity Tube DAC-09 and XiangSheng DAC-01A. Now Im wondering if getting the fun would be an improvement? Kingwa seems to really care about his products and seems very enthusiastic. Leads me to believe this is probably the best sound I can get at this price point.

 Another question, if I predominantly us this for the line out to my powered a5 speakers would the acss unit provide any benefit? Or is the acss for the headphone out?

 thanks_

 

I haven't listen to the maverick d1 nor to the Grant Fidelity Tube DAC-09 so I cannot comment on them. 

 All I can say, is that the ACSS version (or version A) is a lot better than the regular voltage modules (version B). In my opinion, Version B is roughly on the same level as the DAC-100/Compass, emu 0404 usb, ... while the the version A (ACSS) is a significant step-up.

 The ACSS circuits are used for the headphone as well as the preamp/Lineout output so you should fully benefit from it when using your powered speakers.
 By the way, the way the volume control is handled in dac/line output of the version A of the FUN is technically the best in my opinion. Digital volume control (even if it is done at 24 or 32 bits) causes a loss in resolution. Analog volume control trhough a potentiometer or stepped attenuator in the voltage domain also causes losses of information. On the other hand, volume control in the current domain (on the gain stage) is technically way better : only a few high-end companies such as Krell, Ayre or Accuphase use that for their top of the line preamps.


----------



## muad

K thanks for the input, which volume control does the fun use? Also the volume control only work with the line out? So that means no hdam for me.


----------



## Currawong

The HDAM is in the DAC section. If you're using the DAC at all, then you're using whatever OPAMP or HDAM is in the socket there. The line out (pre-amp out) is the same as the headphone output in practical terms, the difference being the output goes to two RCA jacks.


----------



## muad

Well supposedly because the hdam has a built in buffer, it sounds better from the dac out because there is not buffer on that output. The lineout has a buffer and therefore sounds better with normal ic opamps that need the buffer. My question is, does the volume control work with both dac and line out?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well supposedly because the hdam has a built in buffer, it sounds better from the dac out because there is not buffer on that output. The lineout has a buffer and therefore sounds better with normal ic opamps that need the buffer. My question is, does the volume control work with both dac and line out?_

 

DAC out is fixed level.


----------



## muad

Great thank you for the reply, I think Im gonna go ahead and order the version a. Hopefully it's an upgrade from my Maverick D1. I think it will be... The components definitely appear more purpose based and quality. I really don't want to upgrade after this (yeah right)

 One last question. Im trying to decide on which opa to get. I also have a LME49710 on the way. Im just wondering, what does neutral sounding mean exactly? If the LME49710 is considered a transparent opamp would the opa earth be redundant? or does neutral mean it sounds natural? The other opa im considering is the moon.


----------



## Currawong

You need 2x LME49710 on a Browndog adaptor if you want to use it in the DAC. If you put a single one in there you'll likely destroy the OPAMP.


----------



## muad

Yeah i've got the opamp being made for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I order my unit along with the opa moon, 

 the waiting is the hardest part....


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah i've got the opamp being made for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I order my unit along with the opa moon, 

 the waiting is the hardest part...._

 

Earth and Moon sound great. The SUN was a little fatiguing.


----------



## muad

Yeah I was kind of torn between the two... which do you prefer?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I was kind of torn between the two... which do you prefer?_

 

I like the Earth the best. The Moon is a little rolled off in the upper mids and top for my taste, but is nice as well.


----------



## sfrancis

muad: I will be very interested in your comparison of D1 and FUN. Was considering FUN in the beginning but went with D1. Wonder how DAC and headphone compares to each other.


----------



## muad

I'll let you guys know... I really hope the fun sounds better. It cost me close to twice as much with the hdam  Unfortunately I don't have a good pair of headphones to test them with, but if anyone in vancouver wants to audition either unit, just pm me...

 If I was to do a comparison would it be with a stock maverick or modded? I find the maverick very receptive to opamp changes...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll let you guys know... I really hope the fun sounds better. It cost me close to twice as much with the hdam  Unfortunately I don't have a good pair of headphones to test them with, but if anyone in vancouver wants to audition either unit, just pm me...

 If I was to do a comparison would it be with a stock maverick or modded? I find the maverick very receptive to opamp changes..._

 

Definitely let us know what you think. I think you'll be REAL happy with it though.


----------



## muad

arghhh, Ive been researching the hdams for a few hours now and I can't make up my mind. Kingwa is waiting on my decision. I bought some opa627au's awhile back and found it very dark and recessed and kinda muddled in the lower mids. Some songs I'd lose the vocals in the upper base. It was very clean sounding and a nice sound stage also. The opa moon gets some great reviews but Im just worried it's gonna sound like the opa627.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_arghhh, Ive been researching the hdams for a few hours now and I can't make up my mind. Kingwa is waiting on my decision. I bought some opa627au's awhile back and found it very dark and recessed and kinda muddled in the lower mids. Some songs I'd lose the vocals in the upper base. It was very clean sounding and a nice sound stage also. The opa moon gets some great reviews but Im just worried it's gonna sound like the opa627._

 

I'll bet Curra has all three as well and can render an impression.


----------



## Currawong

If you dislike the 627s, get the Earth. The Moon (due, I think, due to stereo crosstalk, going by RMAA measurements someone did) has recessed mids, which gives the illusion of greater soundstage. It doesn't sound like 627s to me at all. I was just trying the Pacific Valve config, with Sun and FET stage, and it's more 627-like with rolled-off treble. The standard A-mode config + Earth sounds right to me with all my headphones.


----------



## muad

Thanks for the input! Kingwa is gonna kill me, I keep changin my mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll go for the earth


----------



## sinner6

I had ordered the standard A-mode from Pacific Valve. Unfortunately, there was a fault with the DAC output opamp. My options were to: A) replace that opamp with the Sun HDAM for $20, B) wait for a replacement unit to arrive from China or C) cancel my order.

 I chose option A, and am a little nervous based on the comments I am reading here. I have a Compass with an Earth, and wonder if I might be better off putting the Sun in the Compass and the Earth in the FUN or if I should just try and get another Earth somehow. 

 Headphones would be D5000's.

 Also, for those who said the Sun was too bright or fatiguing: Did you adjust the jumper settings in the FUN similar to the Compass that allow for some tonal control (Bright, Neutral, Soft1, Soft2)? 

 I am assuming these jumpers exist in the FUN....


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinner6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had ordered the standard A-mode from Pacific Valve. Unfortunately, there was a fault with the DAC output opamp. My options were to: A) replace that opamp with the Sun HDAM for $20, B) wait for a replacement unit to arrive from China or C) cancel my order.

 I chose option A, and am a little nervous based on the comments I am reading here. I have a Compass with an Earth, and wonder if I might be better off putting the Sun in the Compass and the Earth in the FUN or if I should just try and get another Earth somehow. 

 Headphones would be D5000's.

 Also, for those who said the Sun was too bright or fatiguing: Did you adjust the jumper settings in the FUN similar to the Compass that allow for some tonal control (Bright, Neutral, Soft1, Soft2)? 

 I am assuming these jumpers exist in the FUN...._

 

Hi,
 There may be a few exceptions to the next statement I'm making here, but not many.

 Most Compass owners who had multiple HDAMs had honeymoon sessions with SUN/MOON but went back to the Earth ultimately. Even KW will steer you towards the Earth. 

 I did not do anything with the jumper settings, it's just not in my nature to put a filter in the circuit. Just my opinion of course.


----------



## Currawong

It might be worth noting that I felt the Fun when it first arrived sounded a bit harsh but is now quite smooth after being left on for a couple of weeks. IIRC the Sun has a bit of stereo crosstalk as well, making it a bit brighter at least.


----------



## muad

Lol, after much messing around and indecisiveness I ended up getting both the opa moon and earth. It's the only way to be sure. Since it's shipping with the Fun, whats an extra $20 to find possible audio nirvana.... <---- This doesn't exist BTW


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol, after much messing around and indecisiveness I ended up getting both the opa moon and earth. It's the only way to be sure. Since it's shipping with the Fun, whats an extra $20 to find possible audio nirvana.... <---- This doesn't exist BTW_

 

Good Choice.


 I would rank MOON as my second choice behind the Earth.

 Originally I think the Compass during the Proto phase was being spec'd with the MOON.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you dislike the 627s, get the Earth. The Moon (due, I think, due to stereo crosstalk, going by RMAA measurements someone did) has recessed mids, which gives the illusion of greater soundstage. It doesn't sound like 627s to me at all. I was just trying the Pacific Valve config, with Sun and FET stage, and it's more 627-like with rolled-off treble. The standard A-mode config + Earth sounds right to me with all my headphones._

 

I second the Earth HDAM striking the right balance (A config with DIR9001/AD1852 modules). It is the most consistent performer of the 3 and I always seem to end up going back to it after a short while with the Moon or SUN V2's. Of the 3 flavors I use the Earth 90% of the time (in every piece of my gear an HDAM can be used in).....FWIW.

 Peete.


----------



## muad

Great, I can't wait to try it out now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 BTW kingwa is excellent to deal with. Answered all my emails within minutes and after I ordered it yesterday, he shipped it today!

 A question about burn in of the hdams and the fun... Do you guys just leave it playing for 300 hours? or should I let it rest/cooldown?


----------



## slim.a

Personally, I used to burn-in new equipment 24/7 without interruption. 
 However, Pricklely Peete mentioned somewhere that it is better to let components cool down and do the burn-in in cycles. It is probably a better solution that what I used to do.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Correct slim.a, for these two reasons. Thermal seating of the fresh heat sink grease needs heat up and cool down cycles and any suspect parts/solder joints will be exposed by the thermal cycling process fairly quickly although 100 hours of QC before shipment should sort out the the latter by a fairly high percentage (likely 98%).

 I used to just run stuff 24/7 for weeks but found if I rested the gear once a day for an hour or so the thermal seating of the heat sink grease brought overall temps down much quicker. At first power up for the RE1 for instance it ran quite warm for the first week or so until I had cycled the power a half dozen times or so. The case temp then dropped a few degrees C overall once the grease was fully seated. I used to use the same thermal compound when I worked in the Industrial PC field (as a service department bench tech) back in the early 80's (the cheap white stuff) and I remember it needed a number of cycles to be become fully effective. I have some idea why but I have found the high performance stuff (like Arctic Silver) is really quite effective from the get go but it also needs a few cycles to reach optimum efficiency. Anyway Penchum and I discussed this very thing quite a awhile ago (via PM) with both of us coming to the same conclusions. A good number of heat up/cool down cycles during burn in is beneficial.

 Peete.


----------



## muad

Great, thanks for the advice! 

 Another question if anyone knows... What does the gain switch do and does it affect the preamp section?


----------



## Mad Max

Not sure how to explain what the gain switch does, but it helps to raise the gain when you use higher impedance headphones like HD600. It should affect the preamp output - at least, it does on my older Compass.


----------



## muad

Thanks, so with powered speakers I don't need to use it. I was just checking out the audio-gd fun site and kingwa recommends to leave it off. He also recommends to keep the volume between 10 and 2. I wonder if that applies to the acss gain model also?


----------



## Pacha

What power cable do you use with the FUN?
 Do you think the Audio-gd power cable are worth buying or do you have something else to recommand?


----------



## Currawong

A gain switch controls how quickly it gets loud when you turn up the volume. Since headphones have wildly varying impedances, it can be hard to choose a good gain setting. For example, you might have very low impedance phones and a high gain in the amp, so when you turn up the volume, it's already quite loud by the time the dial is at the 9 o'clock position. On the other hand, you might have very high impedance phones and low gain in the amp, so you hit max volume with quieter classical music, which isn't very good either.


----------



## sfrancis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A gain switch controls how quickly it gets loud when you turn up the volume. Since headphones have wildly varying impedances, it can be hard to choose a good gain setting. For example, you might have very low impedance phones and a high gain in the amp, so when you turn up the volume, it's already quite loud by the time the dial is at the 9 o'clock position. On the other hand, you might have very high impedance phones and low gain in the amp, so you hit max volume with quieter classical music, which isn't very good either._

 

Agree that a gain setting for the amp is a very clever and useful feature. Currently I'm using Maverick Audio D1 but the gain is a bit too high (barely pass 9 o'clock for most of my sources). The mod would involve a soldering of two resistors which I rather avoid doing.


----------



## muad

Well thats good to know, since I'll actually be using my headphones and my speakers with the audio-gd fun. Since it has an output switch. It was too cumbersome with the maverick to do that since they removed the preamp/headphone auto mute. 

 The thing is I don't really need an amp for my headphones. They're normal pc gaming headphones (steelseries) and I just like the convenience of not having to change my pc output since creative cards seem to like to freeze when I switch between spdif and analogue out. There shouldn't be an issue with using regular headphones through a headphone amp?


----------



## muad

BTW I emailed Kingwa about the volume on the audio-gd fun. On the website it says to use the Fun with the volume between the 10 and 2 positions for the best quality. This doesnt apply to the acss version (version a). 

 Does anyone know where I can find some literature of how acss works/what it does?


----------



## johangrb

Re a power cable - someone recommend the Cryo Sonikleer (around $45 on Ebay) somewhere else on this forum. I am very happy with that + FUN. YMMV.


----------



## Currawong

Some of the pages for other Audio-gd gear have information about ACSS. Shotgun summary: Audio signals are fluctuations in voltage. Quality amplification requires quality components that behave in the most linear way with rapid voltage fluctuations. Some clever person in the '60s figured out that if you switched the signal to be fluctuations in current, then the result was much better, with components degrading the signal less in this state. Krell uses this kind of system too, calling it CAST.

 The volume control in a regular amp is connected to the input signal. However, according to the Audio-gd site, an ACSS volume control is connected to the output of the current gain stage.


----------



## muad

Great, thanks for the laymans answer! All I googled was gibberish to me


----------



## muad

.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pacha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What power cable do you use with the FUN?
 Do you think the Audio-gd power cable are worth buying or do you have something else to recommand?_

 

I think this was discussed a while back. Someone recommended the Cryo Sonikleer over the Audio-Gd Power Cable and it was lower in price too. On my part i was using the Audio-Gd on my Compass for sometime and I ask the same question here. So i finally got the Cryo Sonikleer cable recently. 

 Compared to the Audio-Gd cable this Sonikleer definitely strikes a great balance in sound from my Compass. Everything seems to have gain clarity, details jumped out and soundstage has depth and width. It seems to be a great recommendation for my Compass, and probably may be work great with the FUN. Though this really depends on individual's mileage from power cables.


----------



## muad

Sorry I deleted my previous post... I still haven't decided if power cables are placebo or not. That's not up for discussion either. I've seen what power cable discussions degrade into and I want no part in that. Thats why I deleted the previous post. Either way, if I decide to get a power cable I'll definitely consider the Sonikleer or otherwise the pangea cables. Thanks for the recommendation! 

 thanks for the reply


----------



## Pacha

Yes I read that too but also these 3 posts :

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/ir...1/#post5811629

 and the guy is saying the Audio-gd is one of the best he tried between many so I cannot decide.

 Is the SoniKLEER that better compared to the Audio-gd one? I may buy the two to make an idea on that...


----------



## Akheel saleh

Hi

 is the audio gd fun(DAC) better than the dacmagic?
 i am planing on getting one of them for my grado sr325i


----------



## sinner6

Mine will be delivered today! I have a Compass with Earth and Fun with SUN. I am excite.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Akheel saleh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi

 is the audio gd fun(DAC) better than the dacmagic?
 i am planing on getting one of them for my grado sr325i_

 


 Most reviewed the Compass better than the Dacmagic and the FUN is a lot better than the Compass.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The mods I performed on the dac/receiver and diamond buffer output modules are starting to bear fruit. A little bit clearer with low level details revealed to almost the same degree as my modified reference system. It still needs more time that much is certain.....I need to spend more time with this amp than my main system but it's tough to tear myself away from the other system.

 I have the BG caps (STD series) in hand now so the last mod for now will be swapping out the NoVer caps on the ACSS gain stage for those (100uf x 4, 2 for each module). The 1.0uf/0.1uf WIMA FKP10 bypass caps are still burning in but the results are quite good for a cheap mod (maybe 15 bucks worth of caps including the 4 BGs). I swapped out all of the electrolytic caps in the various stages for Elna Cerafine (same value as the NoVer series but much lower V ratings more appropriate to the module's actual V running through them). The digital modules run at 5V max, with 3.3V and 5V being typical. better to use 10V or even 6.3V rated caps in these crucial locations. The main PSU rails of the amp are + - 15 V so any cap rated at 25V is more than enough.

 Pretty pleased with the FUN. It's a good little combo that I could easily live with on a daily basis without feeling I'm missing out on too much compared to the ref system. To be fair my ref system is in another zip code on another planet but the FUN in it's current form is decent chunk of the base sound of the ref system. It certainly has the Audio-gd traits familiar to those who have heard ACSS in earnest.

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The mods I performed on the dac/receiver and diamond buffer output modules are starting to bear fruit. A little bit clearer with low level details revealed to almost the same degree as my modified reference system. It still needs more time that much is certain.....I need to spend more time with this amp than my main system but it's tough to tear myself away from the other system.

 I have the BG caps (STD series) in hand now so the last mod for now will be swapping out the NoVer caps on the ACSS gain stage for those (100uf x 4, 2 for each module). The 1.0uf/0.1uf WIMA FKP10 bypass caps are still burning in but the results are quite good for a cheap mod (maybe 15 bucks worth of caps including the 4 BGs). I swapped out all of the electrolytic caps in the various stages for Elna Cerafine (same value as the NoVer series but much lower V ratings more appropriate to the module's actual V running through them). The digital modules run at 5V max, with 3.3V and 5V being typical. better to use 10V or even 6.3V rated caps in these crucial locations. The main PSU rails of the amp are + - 15 V so any cap rated at 25V is more than enough.

 Pretty pleased with the FUN. It's a good little combo that I could easily live with on a daily basis without feeling I'm missing out on too much compared to the ref system. To be fair my ref system is in another zip code on another planet but the FUN in it's current form is decent chunk of the base sound of the ref system. It certainly has the Audio-gd traits familiar to those who have heard ACSS in earnest.

 Peete._

 

Just can't leave well enough alone can ya!

 Well, just thank God you didn't develop a Plastic Surgery Compulsion!


----------



## sinner6

Hopefully it's appropriate to post my thoughts in this thread-

 I've had a few days to listen to FUN and make comparisons with the Compass, using Denon D5000's and 2000's. The DAC output opamps are Sun and Earth HDAM's. Version A of the FUN, with the exception of the aforementioned opamp in the DAC output. Since the capabilities of this stuff are more or less well known, I'll try and be succinct.

 One thing that may not be obvious from photos or a glance at the specs is that the FUN is smaller than the Compass, and lighter. I preferred the case on the Compass, to be honest, with it's diagram and jumper settings printed under the lid. I mention this now, because it's the first thing you encounter when you get the unit.

 My unit shipped with the SUN HDAM. With the D5k's, things were mighty hot in the treble and bass, hiding the Denons already shy mids. I did set the "favor" to Soft1 and this actually helped quite alot in the treble region and brought the mids back, but still a bit bass heavy.

 Swapping to the Earth was a bit unnerving because the capacitor on the left side exterior of the HDAM comes in contact with another cap on the main board (looking from the top down, front on). I pried the cap to the left and HDAM to the right to get it seated. Could the resulting pressure cause problems in the long term? 

 Having said that, I can agree that this certainly is a better match for my headphones and my taste in presentation. As mentioned by everyone else, the FUN really does sound better than the Compass in every area- really. It's just smoother and more natural sounding to me. One interesting thing my wife and I noticed is that the differences between the D2000's and D5000's were greater on the FUN than the Compass. Where there was once a small difference between the phones, there is now a substantial one. Finally, I did go ahead and put that Sun in the Compass and found that it was quite pleasant compared to on the FUN, as the Compass does not seem to respond as dramatically to this change as the FUN did. 

 So it boils down to me agreeing with what's already been said, though I do wonder if anyone else had the trouble I did with seating their Earth module?

 While I'm at it, I am curious if anyone has tried any IC's in the DAC output? I see iBasso has an opamp rolling kit that has 4 varieties for $25.00...would this be at all worthwhile vs the discrete opamps?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinner6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hopefully it's appropriate to post my thoughts in this thread-

 I've had a few days to listen to FUN and make comparisons with the Compass, using Denon D5000's and 2000's. The DAC output opamps are Sun and Earth HDAM's. Version A of the FUN, with the exception of the aforementioned opamp in the DAC output. Since the capabilities of this stuff are more or less well known, I'll try and be succinct.

 One thing that may not be obvious from photos or a glance at the specs is that the FUN is smaller than the Compass, and lighter. I preferred the case on the Compass, to be honest, with it's diagram and jumper settings printed under the lid. I mention this now, because it's the first thing you encounter when you get the unit.

 My unit shipped with the SUN HDAM. With the D5k's, things were mighty hot in the treble and bass, hiding the Denons already shy mids. I did set the "favor" to Soft1 and this actually helped quite alot in the treble region and brought the mids back, but still a bit bass heavy.

 Swapping to the Earth was a bit unnerving because the capacitor on the left side exterior of the HDAM comes in contact with another cap on the main board (looking from the top down, front on). I pried the cap to the left and HDAM to the right to get it seated. Could the resulting pressure cause problems in the long term? 

 Having said that, I can agree that this certainly is a better match for my headphones and my taste in presentation. As mentioned by everyone else, the FUN really does sound better than the Compass in every area- really. It's just smoother and more natural sounding to me. One interesting thing my wife and I noticed is that the differences between the D2000's and D5000's were greater on the FUN than the Compass. Where there was once a small difference between the phones, there is now a substantial one. Finally, I did go ahead and put that Sun in the Compass and found that it was quite pleasant compared to on the FUN, as the Compass does not seem to respond as dramatically to this change as the FUN did. 

 So it boils down to me agreeing with what's already been said, though I do wonder if anyone else had the trouble I did with seating their Earth module?

 While I'm at it, I am curious if anyone has tried any IC's in the DAC output? I see iBasso has an opamp rolling kit that has 4 varieties for $25.00...would this be at all worthwhile vs the discrete opamps?_

 

Thanx for the Impressions! 

 I have some IC Opamps and have not got around to playing with them yet.I like Compass box as well.

 I like the


----------



## muad

I sent an email to kingwa to ask if it's possible to make a PCM1704UK d/a module. He says when he sells enough units then he will. So hopefully that happens!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sent an email to kingwa to ask if it's possible to make a PCM1704UK d/a module. He says when he sells enough units then he will. So hopefully that happens! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's a great idea!


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sent an email to kingwa to ask if it's possible to make a PCM1704UK d/a module. He says when he sells enough units then he will. So hopefully that happens! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I asked him the same question about the pcm1704uk a month ago ... and I got the same answer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Hopefully, if enough people show interst in those pcm1704uk chips, he will make them


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked him the same question about the pcm1704uk a month ago ... and I got the same answer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Hopefully, if enough people show interst in those pcm1704uk chips, he will make them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think his main hesitation is threefold...cost number 1, a module like this will likely be 90-110USD. Number 2 if he spends the time and money to develop the module he needs to sell a fair number of them to recoup those costs which is totally understandable and number 3...he's worried about number 1 and 2 making the offering a losing prospect although initially there will be a number of us that will buy the module. Is that enough ? The other possible line of thinking is how much would such a DAC cut into sales of the DAC19 ? That may seem silly but IMO the FUN already competes well with the older C-2C (amp wise) so it's not a crazy thought by any means to think the DAC section thus equipped with a 2 chip pcm170UK module might give one 75% of the DAC19's resolution. IMO that's a positive for the FUN as it would clearly destroy any combo unit made today (if it hasn't claimed that spot in the under 600USD category already).

 Anyway I still hope Kingwa decides to make an effort. He could adopt a group buy methodology for such a module thus guaranteeing a certain amount of money coming his way for his effort. Say lots of 10 units at a time. No discount of course. 

 Just throwing some thoughts and a suggestion or two out there.

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think his main hesitation is threefold...cost number 1, a module like this will likely be 90-110USD. Number 2 if he spends the time and money to develop the module he needs to sell a fair number of them to recoup those costs which is totally understandable and number 3...he's worried about number 1 and 2 making the offering a losing prospect although initially there will be a number of us that will buy the module. Is that enough ? The other possible line of thinking is how much would such a DAC cut into sales of the DAC19 ? That may seem silly but IMO the FUN already competes well with the older C-2C (amp wise) so it's not a crazy thought by any means to think the DAC section thus equipped with a 2 chip pcm170UK module might give one 75% of the DAC19's resolution. IMO that's a positive for the FUN as it would clearly destroy any combo unit made today (if it hasn't claimed that spot in the under 600USD category already).

 Anyway I still hope Kingwa decides to make an effort. He could adopt a group buy methodology for such a module thus guaranteeing a certain amount of money coming his way for his effort. Say lots of 10 units at a time. No discount of course. 

 Just throwing some thoughts and a suggestion or two out there.

 Peete._

 

I would be game for that. I really like the FUN. I do think he owns his price point as it is now. This would kick it up a notch price wise.


----------



## sinner6

Count me in if he ever makes such a module.


----------



## TheDuke990

I would be with you but first I need an answer for the question I already asked in the nuforce HDP thread.
 It is possible to compare an audio-gd fun with an nuforce HDP or is one of them clear better ? Thanks


----------



## muad

Well the HDP is pretty new, so it may be difficult to find any kind of comparison. The HDP was actually one of the Dacs I was considering initially but I didn't like some of the stuff I read up on it. The glowing reviews for the audio-gd stuff and the fact thats it's a small independent, owned by someone with some serious audio passion... more my cup of tea!


----------



## muad

Well thanks for everyone's input and thoughts on a PCM1704 module. Turns out its against forum rules for me to do a census on who would be interested. Either way I shot him an email and let him know that there was some genuine interest in the idea. Now I'll just keep my fingers crossed... and enjoy music until that time!


----------



## Currawong

muad: He reads the threads on his products. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd be interested to see the Fun + HDAM go up against a Pico DAC and AMB y2. Both are a similar price and have a good reputation.


----------



## nautilus983

If you provided the two pcm1704uk chips to kingwa and the DF1704 digital filter, wouldn't he be able to replace the chips that he uses in the Fun with these?

 Or is it that the Fun needs to be redesigned to accommodate the pcm1704uk? 

 I'm planning to get a Fun so that I can have a DAC+amplifier that I can use as I gradually buy my actual system. If anything, I was hoping that the Fun would make me forget about needing to get a better system


----------



## Nachkebia

Anybody owns this baby and D10? how big is the improvement over D10 with optical 24/96?


----------



## nautilus983

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_However, it was a totally different story when I put back the ACSS gain modules. The sound improvement was such that I found the FUN in the ACSS mode alone outperformed the FUN+C2C or the FUN alone with the musical mode. 
 Putting back the ACSS gain modules brought a new level of low level details, extension throughout the frequency extremes and refinement over the voltage gain modules. The sound was smooth not because it rolls the highs like the musical gain module but because it has less distortion.
 Those improvements were noticeable with the FUN used as a headphone amp as well as a DAC/preamp. In fact, when I paired the FUN with the C2C headphone amp I thought for a moment that the sound was as good as I had with the dac19mk3. When I did some A/B comparisons it was apparent that the dac19mk3 still had the edge but I was impressed about how good the FUN was sounding. If I didn’t have a better DAC to compare it with, it would be hard to find weaknesses listening to the FUN alone._

 

This part is very interesting. I wonder what would happen if you spent 100 extra dollars on capacitors instead of the pcm1704uk module... I believe that you would have a very formidable unit.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nautilus983* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you provided the two pcm1704uk chips to kingwa and the DF1704 digital filter, wouldn't he be able to replace the chips that he uses in the Fun with these?

 Or is it that the Fun needs to be redesigned to accommodate the pcm1704uk? 

 I'm planning to get a Fun so that I can have a DAC+amplifier that I can use as I gradually buy my actual system. If anything, I was hoping that the Fun would make me forget about needing to get a better system 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't think that the problem is in providing the pcm1704 chips and a digital filter. I think that it will take Kingwa a little bit of time to design and produce the pcm1704 modules.

 Also, I don't think the FUN needs to be redesigned to fit the pcm1704uk chips. Hopefully, the FUN is upgradable enough that it won't be replaced any time soon. For example, if Kingwa decides to change the usb module (to a 24/96 for example), he just have to replace that specific module and keep everything else the same. Not many components have that "upgradability".


----------



## rosgr63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nautilus983* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If anything, I was hoping that the Fun would make me forget about needing to get a better system 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am afraid that whatever we have there is always a better system, be it an upgrade or a newer model!


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nautilus983* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This part is very interesting. I wonder what would happen if you spent 100 extra dollars on capacitors instead of the pcm1704uk module... I believe that you would have a very formidable unit._

 

Upgrading the capacitors will probably yield another jump in performance. I have noticed that the FUN is very sensitive to power filters and power cords, so by using high end (expensive) capacitors, it might reduce the need for those accessories. 

 Anyway, I think that the FUN is already a formidable unit as it is today. Once you use it as a DAC/headphone amp, you realize that you have to spend a lot on separate DACs, heaphones amps and interconnects to better its performance. 

 Of course, if Kingwa can make a "Signature version" with the pcm1704uk and perhaps some Black Gate capacitors, ... it might end being the ultimate one box solution.


----------



## Currawong

I'm not so sure a PCM1704 version would result in a great deal of benefit for the costs involved, especially if you're only using the built-in headphone amp. For me, the AD1852 already sounds great. Don't forget that quite a few high-end Meridian CD players used it and its measurements are excellent. I believe (though Kingwa would have a better idea to be sure) that the all-round improvements in the DAC section to the power supply and digital input sections and options made more of a difference than a different DAC chip would have.


----------



## nautilus983

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rosgr63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am afraid that whatever we have there is always a better system, be it an upgrade or a newer model!_

 

That's true, but we also need to have the capacity to understand when enough is enough, or that is, when upgrading your components is yielding a different sound signature instead of a better one, and many people mix the one with the other. Moderation is the key to better sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Otherwise, you end up either buying (if you have the possibility) or designing (if you don't have the possibility) Kondo, Zanden, or Feastrex components or speakers - people who care more about themselves than of others, sad as it is to say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways, one other upgrade that I'm planning to make is replacing the volume control with an optical one - ala the Lightspeed attenuator, which is described here Lightspeed Attenuator a new passive preamp - diyAudio. It is apparently the culmination of the attenuator, where no moving contact points are present in the signal path. People have described it as "destroying" very expensive TVCs, which are supposed to be a good deal better than the DACT stepped attenuators and the like.

 I think that it should probably work with the ACSS circuit, even though I would need to email Kingwa to confirm that. Here dvb-projekt (also a member of head-fi) sells the pcb - Optical Volume Control Professional PCB - diyAudio. Here he states that he will also sell the completed kit, excluding the LDRs - Optical Volume Control Professional PCB - Page 27 - diyAudio . Here instead you can get the LDRs already matched, Build An Amp . The person behind buildanamp, Uriah, Lightspeed Attenuator a new passive preamp - Page 296 - diyAudio , also sells the "Lighter Note", of which he told me in email he thinks is even better than the Lightspeed, although he didn't specify how.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Upgrading the capacitors will probably yield another jump in performance. I have noticed that the FUN is very sensitive to power filters and power cords, so by using high end (expensive) capacitors, it might reduce the need for those accessories. 

 Anyway, I think that the FUN is already a formidable unit as it is today. Once you use it as a DAC/headphone amp, you realize that you have to spend a lot on separate DACs, heaphones amps and interconnects to better its performance. 

 Of course, if Kingwa can make a "Signature version" with the pcm1704uk and perhaps some Black Gate capacitors, ... it might end being the ultimate one box solution._

 

Indeed I'm going to buy a Kaplan inline power conditioner cord so that I can use it too for my other system that I'm slowly building - the Kaplan H.E. is said to be a very good power cord, better than the Lessloss and many other power cords under 1500 us dollars. It has been compared favourably to a Synergistic T3 and a Kubala Sosna Emotion (1000 USD for 6ft) - AudiogoN Forums: PC Recommendation for Furman Conditioner.

 As for capacitors, people have been talking very highly of the standard Mundorf Supreme - the Mundorf silver oil and silver gold oil apparently produce a smoother sound, while the standard supreme could be taken as being harsher sounding, but only when compared to the silver oil and silver gold oil versions (here is a description of their differences Humble Homemade Hifi). Thus arrives the point, as always, where the standard Mundorf Supreme could be a better option in some systems as it would display a less colored and more neutral sound. I'm not too sure that I would want a much smoother sound - what I'm after is the most proper sound, smoothness is a desirable quality, but only if it is to be perceived as being natural.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not so sure a PCM1704 version would result in a great deal of benefit for the costs involved, especially if you're only using the built-in headphone amp. For me, the AD1852 already sounds great. Don't forget that quite a few high-end Meridian CD players used it and its measurements are excellent. I believe (though Kingwa would have a better idea to be sure) that the all-round improvements in the DAC section to the power supply and digital input sections and options made more of a difference than a different DAC chip would have._

 

This is great to know


----------



## Pacha

I've just received mine and plugged it in with HiFace and right now stock RCA cable (waiting for my Oyaide DR5-10), and the sound is so mesmerizing compared to my Audigy 2 ZS.
 Edit : having just compared the stock RCA cable of the FUN with a "bit better than cheap" one and the difference is here, now waiting impatiently for the DR-510.

 I now have to compare the stock OPA2134 and Earth module, and Audio-gd power cable to the stock one.

 What setting do you use regarding gain switch?
 If I use low gain setting (button pushed in) I have to raise the volume knob at 3/4 of the max with my DT880 32 Ohms, while at high gain I'm around 12h00.
 By the way, except low and high gain, is there any difference using the two? I guess that both settings use ACSS and there are two to suit with cans of different impedance?


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway, I think that the FUN is already a formidable unit as it is today. Once you use it as a DAC/headphone amp, you realize that you have to spend a lot on separate DACs, heaphones amps and interconnects to better its performance._

 

Many people also said this about the compass. Heck, I was even one of them. Then came a flux of products that equaled or surpassed the performance of the compass for between 200-300. But what the compass did do was raise the bar for companies to produce good sounding combo units that didn't cost an arm and leg. And also produce one that the head amp wasn't an afterthought. I hope this unit does the same; forces manufacturers to raise the bar yet again.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many people also said this about the compass. Heck, I was even one of them. Then came a flux of products that equaled or surpassed the performance of the compass for between 200-300. But what the compass did do was raise the bar for companies to produce good sounding combo units that didn't cost an arm and leg. And also produce one that the head amp wasn't an afterthought. I hope this unit does the same; forces manufacturers to raise the bar yet again._

 

While the Compass could be easily copied or bettered, the version A FUN is a different beast. Unless other companies develop the same current gain technology, I think that it would be probably hard to make a normal voltage feedback dac/amp that betters the performance of the FUN around the same price.

 Comparing version A to version B (the latter being probably closer to the Compass) is like comparing 2 products from different leagues. The version A has qualities (effortless resolution, refinement of timbre...) that are usually only found on very expensive and high end equipment. The only weakness of the FUN is that being priced at such a low level, people won't treat it as they should. When used with high quality transport, digital cable, power cord and power filter: the sound coming from the FUN is amazing. When used from USB and with a regular power cord, the sound is still very good but it is only a fraction of what it can achieve when it is well set-up.


----------



## noinimod

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When used with high quality transport, digital cable, power cord and power filter: the sound coming from the FUN is amazing. When used from USB and with a regular power cord, the sound is still very good but it is only a fraction of what it can achieve when it is well set-up._

 

That might be true, but doing all that would mean the FUN's not gonna be only usd285/330 cheap


----------



## moodyrn

Right.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *noinimod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That might be true, but doing all that would mean the FUN's not gonna be only usd285/330 cheap_

 

Yes, but at least it gives the owner the possibility to improve the sound without having to sell the FUN.
 For example, it will cost a FUN owner less to buy a (real) high quality power cord than to upgrade to the dac19+C2 headamp for a comparable increase in performance.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While the Compass could be easily copied or bettered, the version A FUN is a different beast. Unless other companies develop the same current gain technology, I think that it would be probably hard to make a normal voltage feedback dac/amp that betters the performance of the FUN around the same price.

 Comparing version A to version B (the latter being probably closer to the Compass) is like comparing 2 products from different leagues. The version A has qualities (effortless resolution, refinement of timbre...) that are usually only found on very expensive and high end equipment. The only weakness of the FUN is that being priced at such a low level, people won't treat it as they should. When used with high quality transport, digital cable, power cord and power filter: the sound coming from the FUN is amazing. When used from USB and with a regular power cord, the sound is still very good but it is only a fraction of what it can achieve when it is well set-up._

 


 People also said this about the compass as well. They said that it would be impossible to use the same quality of components and design for anywhere near the asking price of the compass. But in reality many companies charge far more to for a product than it cost to produce. Audio is gettng better every day. Take the c-2c for example. 3 or 4 years ago an amp with that type of performance would have cost a lot more. Now you see products like that everywhere. You can't say that there won't be product with similar performance in that price range. It just haven't come out yet. 

 PS. The products I was refering to eariler were not clones.


----------



## lampee

The PC1704 module needs differential power supply so 5V and -5V and the DAC module doesn't have that, so it has to be another cable heading to somewhere else on the pcb, but it would be definitely great to have a high end module like that.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_People also said this about the compass as well. They said that it would be impossible to use the same quality of components and design for anywhere near the asking price of the compass. But in reality many companies charge far more to for a product than it cost to produce. Audio is gettng better every day. Take the c-2c for example. 3 or 4 years ago an amp with that type of performance would have cost a lot more. Now you see products like that everywhere. You can't say that there won't be product with similar performance in that price range. It just haven't come out yet. 

 PS. The products I was refering to eariler were not clones._

 

First, while other people might have said that about the Compass, I don't believe I have ever said that about it. 

 As for the C-2C, I truly do not believe that there are comparable products at the same price today: If you can find a solid state headphone amp that is running Class A, uses current gain technology, that is zero feedback and that uses the same quality components and that is sold at around $350, please let me know. I would be very much interested in testing such a product.

 But I agree with your last part. It is not safe to say that there won't be a better product in the future. However, since we are shopping in the present, the FUN seems like a wise choice. By the way, if you re-read what I said:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unless other companies develop the same current gain technology, I think that it would be probably hard to make a normal voltage feedback dac/amp that betters the performance of the FUN around the same price._

 

I never said that it won't be bettered. I just said that it would be hard/difficult to make a better one.


----------



## moodyrn

And I never said that a comparble amp to the c-2c would have all of the audio-gd goodies inside. The point I was making that there are other amps that are as good in the same price range. Take the shanling for example. The are some who compared it to the c-2c and like it better. Others like it just as much, and guess what, it only cost 218.00. I like audio-gd products. I currently own a c-2c. You have strayed from the original poit I was making which was audio-gd raised the bar with the compass, and forced other companies to come up with good sounding gear for less money and I hope the same will follow suit with the fun. You just took it to a whole nother level.


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When used with high quality transport, digital cable, power cord and power filter: the sound coming from the FUN is amazing. When used from USB and with a regular power cord, the sound is still very good but it is only a fraction of what it can achieve when it is well set-up._

 

I totally approve you on that point. Having just received mine and tested it with its stock power cable and Audio-gd exclusive power cable, I can say it definitely benefits from using higher quality power cable. And so goes for the RCA cable, I used the stock one and a mid quality one I have and the difference is clearly audible, so I am now confident about what the Oyaide DR-510 I ordered could improve.

 By the way, thank you again for your help and advices, I am now a pleased Audio-gd user


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pacha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I totally approve you on that point. Having just received mine and tested it with its stock power cable and Audio-gd exclusive power cable, I can say it definitely benefits from using higher quality power cable. And so goes for the RCA cable, I used the stock one and a mid quality one I have and the difference is clearly audible, so I am now confident about what the Oyaide DR-510 I ordered could improve.

 By the way, thank you again for your help and advices, I am now a pleased Audio-gd user 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am glad my findings were helpful for you.


----------



## muad

Well I got my fun and wow! No more upgrading for me, this thing is perfect for my speakers.

 One question though, other than sinner6 has anyone else had to forcibly install the opa earth in the fun?


----------



## sfrancis

muad: please post a comparison of FUN with D1 if you have a chance. Thanks.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad;6465548[B* 
_[size=small]]Well I got my fun and wow! No more upgrading for me, this thing is perfect for my speakers.[/size][/B]

 One question though, other than sinner6 has anyone else had to forcibly install the opa earth in the fun?_

 

Yeah, I've said that before... About $10,000 ago!

 The Earth should slip in pretty easy *[size=x-small]IF[/size]* the pins are straight.


----------



## sinner6

The pins on mine are perfectly straight, there simply is not enough clearance between the capacitor on the outside left of the Earth and and the adjacent cap on the FUN. I ended up just lifting the HDAM up so that it is not fully seated,but it still works and there is no tension on any parts.






 Now I wonder if a part like this would be what I want:

8 PIN SOLDER TAIL DIP SOCKET - 08-3518-10

 Right now the thing is about 1mm up from seated.


----------



## muad

Yeah, mines exactly the same. I've got an adapter but the pins of the opa earth dont fully seat in the adapter. So now I'm not really sure what to do. 

 As for an impression, Im gonna let the Fun and opa burn in some more. So far the difference is a very defined sound stage compared to the d1, and the d1 was already a huge step up from the sound cards i've heard. Also the clarity is absolutely amazing. Very detailed! With the opa earth in the fun it's perfect, the sound is quite balanced, flat and uncoloured. The opa moon is similar to the maverick except clearer highs lows and soundstage. The base and treble are nicely defined with a slight loss of the midrange. I guess a slight v on the eq is the way to describe it. It's better at hiding the low quality recordings and mp3s in my collection.

 I would definitely say the D1 had some merits though. With acoustic songs the maverick really shines. It colours the sound of an acoustic guitar perfectly. Probably the result of the tube out. The one thing about the maverick that show up now that I have the fun is the popping sound. With the maverick and optical in I kept getting a popping sound from my speakers when switching tracks or scanning tracks. This was also more evident when using wasapi. It was pretty irritating. The Audio-gd fun has no such problem. 

 My impressions of the maverick and Fun are done with powered speakers. So Im not sure how the headphone sections differ. The maverick also sounds very different stock. My maverick was using a LME49720HA, and Imo was the best sounding opamp for the maverick. Everything else was too noisy, unbalanced and/or coloured.


----------



## muad

One more thing in case anyone missed the post about jumper settings. Instead of using the soft1 2 3 settings to get rid of some of the harshness, change the jumper on the AD1852. There are two possible jumper spots on the module. The one closer to the front is to set it to 192khz upsampling (stock setting) while the pins near the rear are 96khz upsampling. The 96khz is perfect and gets rid of any harshness. Also this way you're not applying any kind of "soft" filtering to your music.

 This was posted before but it was kinda confusing to understand what was being said.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One more thing in case anyone missed the post about jumper settings. Instead of using the soft1 2 3 settings to get rid of some of the harshness, change the jumper on the AD1852. There are two possible jumper spots on the module. The one closer to the front is to set it to 192khz upsampling (stock setting) while the pins near the rear are 96khz upsampling. The 96khz is perfect and gets rid of any harshness. Also this way you're not applying any kind of "soft" filtering to your music.

 This was posted before but it was kinda confusing to understand what was being said._

 

Hi Muad, 

 Glad to see you are happy with you FUN 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 There is just one thing I should correct: There are indeed 2 jumper positions on the AD1852 with 2 flavors. But there is no upsmapling to 96 or 192. The difference (if you read the data sheet) is in the oversampling factor (x2 on one setting and x4 on the other one). 
 So just to avoid confusion, the FUN is not an upsampling DAC. The 2 jumpers you mentioned let you choose between 2 digital filters.

 I hope the explanation is not confusing. But even if some people do not understand the tech talk, what is important to understand is that there are 2 jumper settings on the AD1852 module. And each jumper position gives you a different flavor.


----------



## muad

Oops sorry! 

 Sometimes I read things too fast


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinner6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The pins on mine are perfectly straight, there simply is not enough clearance between the capacitor on the outside left of the Earth and and the adjacent cap on the FUN. I ended up just lifting the HDAM up so that it is not fully seated,but it still works and there is no tension on any parts.






 Now I wonder if a part like this would be what I want:

8 PIN SOLDER TAIL DIP SOCKET - 08-3518-10

 Right now the thing is about 1mm up from seated._

 

Hey,
 I have an older Earth made by Burson that does not have that white cap. I see what ya mean. Doesn't look like there is enough room because of the other module to push the cap over a little either.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oops sorry!

 Lol yeah, the stock is way too bright. For me anyways. When I looked at the data sheet I thought it said something about upsampling... my mistake. What it does say is 96khz or 192khz sample frequency. What does that mean exactly?_

 

The data sheet implies that in one of the jumper settings, the maximum data input will be 24/96 and on the other one it will be 24/192. 
 However, Kingwa mentioned to me a few weeks ago in an email that in his testing he found out that both modes worked up to 24/192.
 Anyway, I didn't try to investigate much longer as the DIR9001 (the stock digital receiver) is limited to 24/96. And the optional CS8416 which allows 24/192 is not nearly as good as the DIR9001. 

 By the way, many respected audio engineers (such as Dan Lavry) seem to think that anything beyond 24/96 is just marketing BS. So my recommendation for FUN owners is to not worry about the 24/96 limitation of the DIR9001 because in the real word, a 24/96 file played through the DIR9001 will probably sound much better than the 24/192 played through CS8416.


----------



## sfrancis

muad: thanks for posting your initial impressions. once you get it burned in and have a chance to try the headphone output, please let us know.


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One question though, other than sinner6 has anyone else had to forcibly install the opa earth in the fun?_

 

I don't have to force to plug the Earth, mine fits in perfectly. The two capacitor besides the Earth are just away and lower enough for me so that they don't bother installing it.


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The data sheet implies that in one of the jumper settings, the maximum data input will be 24/96 and on the other one it will be 24/192. 
 However, Kingwa mentioned to me a few weeks ago in an email that in his testing he found out that both modes worked up to 24/192.
 Anyway, I didn't try to investigate much longer as the DIR9001 (the stock digital receiver) is limited to 24/96. And the optional CS8416 which allows 24/192 is not nearly as good as the DIR9001. 

 By the way, many respected audio engineers (such as Dan Lavry) seem to think that anything beyond 24/96 is just marketing BS. So my recommendation for FUN owners is to not worry about the 24/96 limitation of the DIR9001 because in the real word, a 24/96 file played through the DIR9001 will probably sound much better than the 24/192 played through CS8416._

 

I tried both jumpers settings and prefer the default one (closest to the front). The second has a larger soundstage but miss a few treble details compared to the first for me, they are here but just less pushed forward to be more precise.

 I still have a bit of harshness in the treble, which was much more emphasized with the Earth than the OPA2134, due to DA1852 I guess. Maybe it will go away after more burn-in (less than 100 hours at the moment) like it did for you.
 The Earth is more detailed than the OPA2134, and is significantly better though at first it was a bit harsher than now and so not as pleasant to listen to.
 I still have to try the LME49720HA to compare as soon as I receive it.


----------



## Currawong

The harshness definitely goes away with time. When mine first arrived, I tried it with my brightest headphones and it was unpleasant. After leaving it on for a couple of weeks (not even playing music), it has become quite smooth-sounding.


----------



## Pacha

Ok, it is nice to know. Thank you for that confirmation.


----------



## sinner6

Not to stray too far from the topic, I was wondering if anyone might be able to tell me where I can acquire an OPA 2134 in 8 pin dip packaging? The only ones I have been able to find are SOIC, and I simply don't have the skills to mount one on an adapter.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinner6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not to stray too far from the topic, I was wondering if anyone might be able to tell me where I can acquire an OPA 2134 in 8 pin dip packaging? The only ones I have been able to find are SOIC, and I simply don't have the skills to mount one on an adapter._

 

I got one off ebay!


----------



## muad

I have a question for you slim.

 How does the opa earth and LME49710 compare?


----------



## Currawong

For the 2134, try ordering samples from Texas Instruments directly. Other than that, Mouser or Digikey should have them.

  Quote:


 How does the opa earth and LME49710 compare? 
 

I found them (2x LME49710) to be tonally very similar, with the Earth slightly more detailed to my ears when I compared them in the Compass. I'll have to do so again in the Fun though.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the 2134, try ordering samples from Texas Instruments directly. Other than that, Mouser or Digikey should have them.



 I found them (2x LME49710) to be tonally very similar, with the Earth slightly more detailed to my ears when I compared them in the Compass. I'll have to do so again in the Fun though._

 


 I tried TI first, samples were not available for that Chip for some reason.

 I hated to pay for a chip!

 But I was curious about it since KW had selected it.

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trk...All-Categories


----------



## muad

Here's the deal with newer opa earths not seating correctly in the audio gd fun. 

  Quote:


 DOn't need extensions leads.
 If you can't let the OPA seat correct, cut the two caps in the OPAs, for FUN, don't need these two caps.


----------



## anoobis

How big a deal is ACSS? There's been the comparison of FUN A vs B and FUN vs DAC19. 

 It would be interesting to FUN vs (DAC19 + decent non-ACSS amp). DAC19 into FUN amp using ACSS might also be interesting, though may not reveal the improvements of the DAC19.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's the deal with newer opa earths not seating correctly in the audio gd fun._

 

You can clip those caps off. 

 No way to bend the cap on the board a little? Just enough to make room for the Earth with the cap left in place?


----------



## muad

What do the caps do exactly? 

 I have my opa earth jammed in at an angle... it wont seat positively in the socket.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question for you slim.

 How does the opa earth and LME49710 compare?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found them (2x LME49710) to be tonally very similar, with the Earth slightly more detailed to my ears when I compared them in the Compass. I'll have to do so again in the Fun though._

 

I haven't tried the LME49710, but the LME49720HA which is the metal can version of the opamp. 

 I found that the LME49720HA was significantly more detailed and faster than the Earth. Their tonal balance was close but the Earth was a little bit thicker.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anoobis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How big a deal is ACSS? There's been the comparison of FUN A vs B and FUN vs DAC19. 

 It would be interesting to FUN vs (DAC19 + decent non-ACSS amp). DAC19 into FUN amp using ACSS might also be interesting, though may not reveal the improvements of the DAC19._

 

The FUN uses current gain (ACSS) internally but doesn't have an ACSS input.


----------



## nautilus983

Can anybody tell me if the Fun at low gain and using both the DAC+amp sections is able to drive the Denon D5000 to ear-bleeding levels? I ask this because I sometimes like to listen to music at extremely loud volumes, so loud that it would make other people flinch in pain.

 Thanks!


----------



## Currawong

slim.a: Interesting. I noticed a few people had good things to say about the metal cap versions.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nautilus983* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anybody tell me if the Fun at low gain and using both the DAC+amp sections is able to drive the Denon D5000 to ear-bleeding levels? I ask this because I sometimes like to listen to music at extremely loud volumes, so loud that it would make other people flinch in pain.

 Thanks!_

 

Put it in high-gain mode then. I strongly recommend against listening extremely loud as you're permanently (irreversibly) damaging your hearing.


----------



## nautilus983

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Put it in high-gain mode then. I strongly recommend against listening extremely loud as you're permanently (irreversibly) damaging your hearing._

 

The problem is that I wish to perform the mod that I spoke of a few pages ago that will change the attenuator to one that cannot support gain - that's why I wish to know how it would work in low gain (+2db) mode, as that would be almost comparable to having no gain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's true about the hearing damage - this (listening at extremely high volumes) sort of happens rarely, I normally like to listen at normal volume, but sometimes, when the music is especially good, I can't do anything but turn the volume way up


----------



## sinner6

I have the D5000's and the FUN anything past 9 o'clock on the volume dial in low gain mode is very loud. Have no doubt that you can drive the D5000's to the point of doing damage and beyond. In high gain mode, 7 o clock is pretty loud.

 If you would like to be listening to music in the future, consider not being abusive to your ears. I ride a motorcycle and wind noise alone has given me tinnitus and I'm only in my 30's. The damage you are doing is permanent.

 Anyway...

 And Thanks to the folks who provided opamp related info. As for clipping the cap....who is going to be the Guinea Pig?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinner6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the D5000's and the FUN anything past 9 o'clock on the volume dial in low gain mode is very loud. Have no doubt that you can drive the D5000's to the point of doing damage and beyond. In high gain mode, 7 o clock is pretty loud.

 If you would like to be listening to music in the future, consider not being abusive to your ears. I ride a motorcycle and wind noise alone has given me tinnitus and I'm only in my 30's. The damage you are doing is ppermanent

 Anyway...

 And Thanks to the folks who provided opamp related info. As for clipping the cap....who is going to be the Guinea Pig? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It won't hurt it to clip the cap. .The originals did not have that cap. You can look on the HDAM pages at A-GD and they show how to do the cap mod before they started coming with the caps in place. Will the SQ suffer a little, that's up to you to tell, I'll bet in a test yo wouldn't hear the difference.


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinner6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the D5000's and the FUN anything past 9 o'clock on the volume dial in low gain mode is very loud._

 

So right now I wonder more than before why with my DT 880 32 Ohms and their sensibility of 96 dB I have to use high gain mode and push the volume at 12 o'clock for it to become loud, and almost at the max in low gain mode.
 I am using 11 to 12 o'clock and high gain mode all the time.


----------



## sinner6

Perhaps we have different versions of the FUN? I've the A version with ACSS and Diamond output buffers. The Denon is rated at 24 ohms and 106dB sensitivity, but sure responds wonderfully to a good amp. Specs don't always tell the full story. Maybe someone with DT880's will chime in?

 Today, I received the J$ earpads for D5000 and this caused me to set the "favor" back to Neutral, and while I was in there I moved the jumper on the DAC module. All in all, this is the best things have sounded yet. Since things are working so well, it's hard for me to work up the desire to snip the cap off. If I do get a wild hair would it be advisable to remove both caps, or just the one?


----------



## muad

Guinea Pig? Lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I cut mine days ago... sometimes Im too impatient to wait for responses to my questions. I don't hear any difference... 

 Kingwas response to cutting the caps

  Quote:


 Some gears design the circuits without these two caps, so sound bad, so we add these two caps, even the gears design without these caps on the boare, the sound not degrade.
 But in our gears , we design is standard, so these two caps useless for work safe. 
 

BTW sinner, I've been going back and forth between the 2x and 4x oversampling for the AD1852. The detail is much better in the 4x oversampling (front jumper setting) than the back jumper setting. The harshness has slowly been going away but is still there. If what everyone says is true then it should sound pretty awesome in a few hundred hours with the stock setting.


----------



## sinner6

muad, thanks! Did you remove just the one cap, or both? 
 I did move the DAC jumper toward the face of the unit, and also prefer the sound in this configuration. I wonder why the FUN does not ship set this way? Not that I'm complaining, when you go look at that module on Audio GD's website, there is no jumper at all!


----------



## muad

I cut both caps. I'm guessing that its one per channel. So it's either both or none?

 My Fun came stock with the jumper closer to the front, which is also the more detailed sounding position. Yours was toward the rear stock?

 the module as shown on the fun website has the jumper at the back...


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Fun came stock with the jumper closer to the front, which is also the more detailed sounding position.

 the module as shown on the fun website has the jumper at the back..._

 

Same thing here with mine.


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinner6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps we have different versions of the FUN? I've the A version with ACSS and Diamond output buffers. The Denon is rated at 24 ohms and 106dB sensitivity, but sure responds wonderfully to a good amp. Specs don't always tell the full story. Maybe someone with DT880's will chime in?_

 

I have version A with ACSS and Diamond output buffers also.
 I didn't thought the D5000 was so low impedance and high sensitivity. I guess this is all as it is to be then.


----------



## sinner6

Ooops, it is in the pic! Mine came configured just like it appears in the picture from Pacific Valve.


----------



## muad

I just checked out the pacific valve pics. They set it to 2x before they resell it? Wonder why?


----------



## Currawong

AFAIK they are all set to 2x by default. I gather it was because Kingwa thought that 192k audio wont work with 4x OS, but apparently it does.


----------



## muad

My jumper came stock on the jumper setting closer to the front of the unit. Differenent than the pictures on audiogds or pacific valves site. Im 100% sure because there was a bit of glue on the jumper and it's still stuck to the jumper pins. Is that 2x or 4x?


----------



## Pacha

I've received my LME49720HA-TO99 (metal cap version) op-amp. Right now I find there are not so many differences with Earth. Maybe a little narrower soundstage with a more airy sound with the Earth, a bit less bass and a bit less details with 49720, but I found them to be close sounding. I will let the latter burn-in for a few days after coming back to a direct comparison, seeing how it improves or not.
 Anyway, I also let the FUN completely burn-in awaiting for the little harshness remaining to go away like it has already started.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pacha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've received my LME49720HA-TO99 (metal cap version) op-amp. Right now I find there are not so many differences with Earth. Maybe a little narrower soundstage with a more airy sound with the Earth, a bit less bass and a bit less details with 49720, but I found them to be close sounding. I will let the latter burn-in for a few days after coming back to a direct comparison, seeing how it improves or not.
 Anyway, I also let the FUN completely burn-in awaiting for the little harshness remaining to go away like it has already started._

 

I have to admit that I haven't extensively tested opamps on the FUN. However, I compared the LME49720HA-TO99 vs. Earth for weeks on the Audio-gd DAC-100. 
 To me, the LME49720HA was faster (in transients) and had more low level resolution. The Earth was thicker sounding (a little bit slower) and was perhaps more upfront with the details.

 Anyway, I would be intersted in your findings after the burn-in of the LME49720HA


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to admit that I haven't extensively tested opamps on the FUN. However, I compared the LME49720HA-TO99 vs. Earth for weeks on the Audio-gd DAC-100. 
 To me, the LME49720HA was faster (in transients) and had more low level resolution. The Earth was thicker sounding (a little bit slower) and was perhaps more upfront with the details.

 Anyway, I would be intersted in your findings after the burn-in of the LME49720HA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've got some LME49720HA's. I may drop one in today.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pacha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So right now I wonder more than before why with my DT 880 32 Ohms and their sensibility of 96 dB I have to use high gain mode and push the volume at 12 o'clock for it to become loud, and almost at the max in low gain mode.
 I am using 11 to 12 o'clock and high gain mode all the time._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinner6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps we have different versions of the FUN? I've the A version with ACSS and Diamond output buffers. The Denon is rated at 24 ohms and 106dB sensitivity, but sure responds wonderfully to a good amp. Specs don't always tell the full story. Maybe someone with DT880's will chime in?

 Today, I received the J$ earpads for D5000 and this caused me to set the "favor" back to Neutral, and while I was in there I moved the jumper on the DAC module. All in all, this is the best things have sounded yet. Since things are working so well, it's hard for me to work up the desire to snip the cap off. If I do get a wild hair would it be advisable to remove both caps, or just the one?_

 


 The difference in efficiency, 106db vs 96db, may not seem like much on paper but for every 3db increase in SPL the amp has to double it's output power. So it's not surprising to see a similar impedance can needing much more range on the volume pot in order to equal the higher efficiency can in terms of actual SPLevels when compared. 10 db is a big big gap in real world testing.

 Those box caps are like a mini energy storage reservoir that can serve up or store some additional juice close to the HDAM module when the HDAM needs it. The caps themselves don;t hold very much but I find it helps with keeping the demanding passages from running out of steam (leading to compression or loss of dynamics). That is a temporary state as the PSU will be supplying the stage at a fixed rate and current level. A lot of people notice no difference with or without caps so YMMV. Anyway Kingwa's designs use massively overbuilt and discretely regulated power supplies so the chance of these designs running out of steam requires a pretty unusual load and playback level to get the amp to balk. Your ears will cry Uncle long before the amp does 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I prefer using a 1uf PIO across pins 4 and 8 which is a little bit different to the way Kingwa has his installed. Neither method has a negative impact and both types do roughly the same thing. The one advantage Kingwa's method has over the Burson method is tying the .68uf box cap to GND for each channel of the HDAM. I guess it'll filter noise to GND if there is any to filter.

 Peete.


----------



## TheDuke990

Drive anyone a Beyer DT880 (600Ohm) with the Audio-GD Fun ? Deliver the Fun enough power for that headphone ? Thanks


----------



## Pacha

A reply to that question interests me also as I'm considering buying a T1 maybe in the next weeks or months, and it is 600 Ohms, though very efficient apparently.

 Plus the other question is, would the FUN be good enough to get all the value out of the T1 without having to spend $1000 or $1500 for a better DAC/amp combo?


----------



## TheDuke990

No one have experiences with the FUN and a Beyer with 600Ohm ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe it is better to wait for other products.
 HLLY have a new DAC/AMP in the pipeline and also I'm very interested in nuforce HDP. But the same issue here. No one with experiences driving a 600Ohm Beyer.


----------



## muad

Did you ask Kingwa? Send audio-gd an email. He will give you an honest answer.


----------



## TheDuke990

Ah nope but it seems to be good idea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I will do it in the evening. Thx


----------



## Pacha

I asked him and he said it should be OK (I asked for T1 which is 600 Ohms).


----------



## TheDuke990

Hmm "it should be okay" is not what I have expected to read 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm "it should be okay" is not what I have expected to read 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

The FUN will probably have enough juice to drive the 600 ohms to insane levels. However, the difference with the bigger units (C2/ROC/Phoenix) will be about how better it will drive them.

 Looking at the specs, the FUN is rated at 3.5watts at 25 ohms. As a comparison, the Little Dot mk V (which is an amp only) has only 0.5 watts at 32 ohms. Of course, it doesn't tell how it performs on a 600 ohms, but it should give an idea of how good the power supply is on the FUN... There are perhaps other DAC/Amps that have even more power than the FUN at a similar price, but personally I am not aware of any.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

3.5 W at 25 ohms ? Holy crap slim.a ! Is that total or per channel ?

 Peete.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_3.5 W at 25 ohms ? Holy crap slim.a ! Is that total or per channel ?

 Peete._

 

I found the number on the FUN specs page (ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1). I think it is 3.5 W per channel but it is better to confirm with Kingwa.

 I think the power is so high with the FUN because it has a class A/B amp (vs. Pure Class A for C2/Roc/Phoenix).

 Also, it doesn't hurt that it has a beefy 50watts toroidal transformer I suppose...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Mine has a toroidal...yours has an R-Core ?

 Peete.


----------



## realmassy

I think is a typo: the new C2 amp (which is supposed to be better) is 1000mv on 62 ohm
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine has a toroidal...yours has an R-Core ?

 Peete._

 

Sorry, that was I typo (I corrected it).


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *realmassy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think is a typo: the new C2 amp (which is supposed to be better) is 1000mv on 62 ohm
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1_

 

The C2 (as well as the old C2C) are class A amps. I remember reading somewhere that the FUN was class A/B which would explain why it has a higher power rating than the C2.


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm "it should be okay" is not what I have expected to read 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Here is what all you need to know I think :

 "The FUN can output 160MW a 600 ohms, max SPL for Ti is 123DB"
 "The FUN output 160MW/600 ohms distortion less than 0.1%, the output 10V is test in 20HZ to 20KHZ."
 Kingwa


 I'm currently seeing with Beyer if these specs will suit the T1 which is 600 Ohms, not only to provide enough loudness but also enough voltage to get the voice coil to move properly as others suggested to think of and determine in the T1 thread.
 Beyer replied at the first sentence I had from Kingwa right now, so the FUN will have no problem driving the T1 loud enough regarding to its specs.
 I'm waiting for another reply from Beyer on the second sentence I had from Kingwa, so I'll know if the FUN will also be able to drive T1 properly.


----------



## jp_zer0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *realmassy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think is a typo: the new C2 amp (which is supposed to be better) is 1000mv on 62 ohm
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1_

 

what's the amperage?


----------



## HeatFan12

Slim, another great review indeed...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now, get some sleep, you are too busy...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I posted this question in another thread but since this is the FUN thread- 

  Quote:


 Question for FUN owners- I ordered the FUN (A). What is the stock configuration when shipped (DIR9001, DA1852, OPA 2134, diamond buffers)? Default sound flavor settings? I ordered the 3 OPAs for it, but don't want to open it up yet and start swapping. Want to get used to all the different configs first.

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Pacha

Everything stock is what is mentionned as stock on the FUN page on Audio-gd's website, so yes DIR9001, DA1852, OPA2134, diamond buffers. default sound flavor is neutral.

 You may try the FUN for a little time with OPA2134 and then switch to Earth or one the others to appreciate the improvement of the Earth over the OPA2134.
 You may also consider replacing the stock power cable and audio cable.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Slim, another great review indeed...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now, get some sleep, you are too busy...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I posted this question in another thread but since this is the FUN thread-_

 

Thanks for the comments on the review.

 Yes as Pacha confirmed, the stock configuration is indeed : DIR9001, DA1852, OPA 2134, diamond buffers.

 However, if you are planning to test OPAs such as the earth, you have to realize that it takes a very long time to burn-in. So if I were you, I would put the Earth as soon as possible to start clocking hours on it. IC opamps such the opa2134 need far less burn-in and you can swap them later on to compare.


----------



## dragonfyra

First of all, thank you Slim.A for the most excellent review and for helping lead me to this thread.

 I also have a pair of DT880/600, and considering the FUN, may top it off later with a small tube amp like LD MKIII to finish off my mid-fi rig.

 I also emailed KingWa about the 600ohm issue, and he says (though in Chinese), technically, it should most definitely be enough to push the DT880 (I hope he took into consideration that I said mine was 600ohms). He also adds that "as for sound quality, you must make your own adjustments".

 I'm assuming he means adding better power supply and etc?? 

 Any thoughts?

 A repost of what he sent me, 
 "On technical terms, FUN definitely has enough to drive DT880.
 As for 'sound color', you will have to adjust that yourself."


----------



## haloxt

dragonfyra, Head-fi rules, English language only because moderators can't read what you're saying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 could you translate it to english for us?

 edit: I ran it through google translate

Google Translate


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dragonfyra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also have a pair of DT880/600, and considering the FUN, may top it off later with a small tube amp like LD MKIII to finish off my mid-fi rig.

 I also emailed KingWa about the 600ohm issue, and he says (though in Chinese), technically, it should most definitely be enough to push the DT880 (I hope he took into consideration that I said mine was 600ohms). He also adds that "as for sound quality, you must make your own adjustments".

 I'm assuming he means adding better power supply and etc?? _

 


 I also don't see why the FUN would have trouble driving the DT880/600. It can swing up to 10v (with only 0.1% distortion) and can pump up to 3500 mW on 25 ohms. 
 (As a comparison the Little Dot mkV is rated only to 500 mW at 32 ohms and the nuforce HDP is limited to 288 mW at 30 ohms.)

 Personally, I have only tried the Sennheiser HD-650 (300 ohms) on it and the FUN drives them perfectly, even when using the low gain setting. Also, in comparison with other headphone amps, the FUN drives the sennheiser hd-650 much better than the Little Dot MKIII.

 As for "making your own adjustments", I think that he was talking about the opamps and different jumper settings. You can fine tune the tonal balance by trying different opamps, jumper settings and even modules.


----------



## dragonfyra

Note taken, I'll only post the English version of what he says here from now on.


 Slim.A, I think you might be right there, he might mean the different adjustments and variations on sound based on the different parts, anyhow, I wrote him back in a follow up email to ask him to elaborate on those 2 things he said to me, i told him I would attempt to clarify things for him on here (with a bit of translation).


----------



## dragonfyra

Wow, KingWa is QUICK!!

 Here is his response, which both echoes what slim.a has stated and will probably quell a lot of worries for users.

 "The FUN can deliver 160MW at 600ohms, in reality, as long as the DT880 as enough MW's, it'll achieve loudness (or being well-driven, I suppose).

 As for the 'sound-coloring', other than adding power cables, users can change OPA's and different modules on the amp, so that users can experiment on different sound setups and results.

 A lot of head-fi enthusiasts nowadays tend to think of whether an amp can drive a pair of headphones solely on the power that's delivered, but actually the quality and coloring of the sound is very important in matching an amp with headphones. Nowadays, most headphones are high in sensitivity, so given that the amp has the minimum requirement needed to power a set of headphones, driving is not an issue. 

 With the FUN, users can change and adjust according to likes and needs, as long as that is achieved, then the headphone is being driven well."

 Hopefully I didn't muck up the translation.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pacha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Everything stock is what is mentionned as stock on the FUN page on Audio-gd's website, so yes DIR9001, DA1852, OPA2134, diamond buffers. default sound flavor is neutral.

 You may try the FUN for a little time with OPA2134 and then switch to Earth or one the others to appreciate the improvement of the Earth over the OPA2134.
 You may also consider replacing the stock power cable and audio cable._

 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the comments on the review.

 Yes as Pacha confirmed, the stock configuration is indeed : DIR9001, DA1852, OPA 2134, diamond buffers.

 However, if you are planning to test OPAs such as the earth, you have to realize that it takes a very long time to burn-in. So if I were you, I would put the Earth as soon as possible to start clocking hours on it. IC opamps such the opa2134 need far less burn-in and you can swap them later on to compare._

 

Thanks very much Pacha and Slim...Great advice....I guess I better get the OPAs ready....


----------



## Pacha

It may interest some on this thread here also, so here is the end of the debate on the driving issue with 600 Ohms T1 with the FUN :

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/bey...ml#post6498476


----------



## muad

Ok Im completely confused about the 2x and 4x over sampling on the AD1852 module. Which one is which? Is the jumper towards the rear the 4x?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok Im completely confused about the 2x and 4x over sampling on the AD1852 module. Which one is which? Is the jumper towards the rear the 4x?_

 

Is it really important to know which is which? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Personally, I chose the one that sounded best to my ears, and I can't even remember which one was it. I think that depending on the gear being used and personal taste, we will have different people choosing different settings... At least that is how I see it


----------



## sinner6

FWIW, closer to the face is 4x, if I have understood correctly. This was the better (to my ear) setting.


----------



## muad

I find in the setting towards the front hurts my ears with songs like "don't know why" by norah jones and many tracy chapman songs.


----------



## sinner6

I must admit I use the "soft1" favor setting with my d5000's, so your mileage may vary.


----------



## Currawong

Some music, especially with strong female vocals, when heard through headphones with a strong treble peak can be irritating to listen to. Regular Beyers I found could be very irritating with Norah Jones, period. 

 Incidentally, I did try my HD-800s out of the Fun (A-mode) and they sounded fine, somewhat more so than they did out of the Compass. Though they are 300 Ohms, according to the graphs from HeadRoom, their impedance curve goes over 600 Ohms. I wouldn't be my first choice for a listening combination, but it certainly wasn't terrible or un-listenable.


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some music, especially with strong female vocals, when heard through headphones with a strong treble peak can be irritating to listen to. Regular Beyers I found could be very irritating with Norah Jones, period. 

 Incidentally, I did try my HD-800s out of the Fun (A-mode) and they sounded fine, somewhat more so than they did out of the Compass. Though they are 300 Ohms, according to the graphs from HeadRoom, their impedance curve goes over 600 Ohms. I wouldn't be my first choice for a listening combination, but it certainly wasn't terrible or un-listenable._

 

Yes that is exactly what I'm experiencing with my DT 880 and the FUN, no matter which of my opamps I use, even if there is a little improvement sometimes by changing it, there is always a strong treble peak sometimes which causes ear pain like when you crank up the volume to the just bearable level, said differently, just during the time of the treble peak it is irritating and unpleasant at quite high listening volume.
 Hoping I will get rid of that if I purchase the T1.


----------



## dragonfyra

My amp just arrived today, everything works just fine, except the Earth OPA
 When i have the Earth in there, at first everything sounds fine, and I love the sound of it too, but then the left channel starts to fizzle a bit, and then slowly dies off, until there's no sound coming from the left.

 Changed it to the Moon OPA, everything's fine, except I feel that the right channel is still a tiny bit louder than the left.... vocal songs that I'm trying have the singer leaning slightly on the right.... 

 I've already emailed KingWa about the Earth OPA dying, so waiting for his response on that.

 Any ideas?


----------



## Currawong

He'll probably send you another one. Maybe some or other component on it flaked out, which is unusual but not impossible.


----------



## dragonfyra

Also, does anyone's FUN plays out from the line out after you've turned it off?
 As in, I turn off the amp, it actually plays sounds out to my speakers (line out) for like half a second before it is off.

 This is really annoying since I've got high impedance headphones vs powered speakers, so that split second is quite loud.


----------



## TheDuke990

After a long time of searching I ordered a Fun by ampcity and I hope it will drive my Beyer 880 properly and it is a big step forward to my aune Mini DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Zikt

I also have problem with the Earth. As in the picture it isn't seated completely.
 So I feel mentally ill even though Fun itself sounds fine.
 If it's Earth's defect,I will send email to Kingwa.
 But if it's FUN's I will put up with this problem as shipping cost is a little bit high.

 Anyone who has the same issue? And how did Kingwa respond to you?





 Sorry for my English!!


----------



## Edoardo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some music, especially with strong female vocals, when heard through headphones with a strong treble peak can be irritating to listen to. Regular Beyers I found could be very irritating with Norah Jones, period. _

 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pacha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes that is exactly what I'm experiencing with my DT 880 and the FUN, no matter which of my opamps I use, even if there is a little improvement sometimes by changing it, there is always a strong treble peak sometimes which causes ear pain like when you crank up the volume to the just bearable level, said differently, just during the time of the treble peak it is irritating and unpleasant at quite high listening volume.
 Hoping I will get rid of that if I purchase the T1._

 


 Hello!

 I was just going to purchase a pair of DT-880 250Ω to couple with a FUN... Maybe you saved me

 @ Currawong: What do you mean with "regular beyers"? 

 Do you boys think that purchasing a pair of DT-880 600Ω would be a better solution, or a good choiche definitely?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dragonfyra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, does anyone's FUN plays out from the line out after you've turned it off?
 As in, I turn off the amp, it actually plays sounds out to my speakers (line out) for like half a second before it is off.

 This is really annoying since I've got high impedance headphones vs powered speakers, so that split second is quite loud._

 

Were the speakers being used before you hit the power button? Does it all of a sudden send sound out the "LINE OUT" when you hit the button? That would be interesting. If it just goes for a second or so while the caps bleed down, that would be normal and expected.


----------



## muad

Quote:


 I also have problem with the Earth. As in the picture it isn't seated completely.
 So I feel mentally ill even though Fun itself sounds fine.
 If it's Earth's defect,I will send email to Kingwa.
 But if it's FUN's I will put up with this problem as shipping cost is a little bit high.

 Anyone who has the same issue? And how did Kingwa respond to you? 
 

Those two capacitors on the side of the earth module can be cut. The Fun doesn't need them. They are there incase you want to use the module in non audio-gd dacs or a soundcard.... I cut mine and there was no change in the music.


----------



## dragonfyra

Zikt - I'm not sure if mine's the same problem as yours, since the Moon OPA seats just fine, and I put them in the same way, I'll check again when I get home today. 

 Kingwa sent me a response and just said to send him back the OPA if it is indeed malfunctioning and he'll send me another one, shipping's on him. 

 les_garten, an example is, I've been using the headphones and the volume is quite a bit higher than I would be using for speakers. I turn the amp off (in headphone mode), and it'll bleed out sound to the speakers for a split second before turning off. You've basically figured it out, as Kingwa explains that at this price range, his amp doesn't have the components that immediately kills the output and the voltage is a bit high on the amp, so it bleeds out for a second.

 He suggests the proper way of turning off is turning off the source, and then turning off the amp....... which is a reasonable method but not very satisfying.


----------



## muad

Only the v2 opa earth has the interference issue. Kingwa recommended us to cut the caps off...


----------



## dragonfyra

Ok, thanks for the heads up, muad, I'll try that once I get home.

 Last night when I was trying the opa's I stupidly (noob = me) put the original opa back in but the wrong way... turned on the amp, saw white smoke coming out, quickly turned it off, it was only for a second though, hopefully I didn't wreck anything ... -_-!


----------



## muad

ouch! If that happened to me my heart would probably give up.... Does everything sound ok still?


----------



## dragonfyra

Yeah it sounded just fine, think I turned it off quickly enough. =/
 It was not a pleasant moment... there wasn't a lot of smoke tho, like a little bit snaking out. 

 A valuable lesson, my first time playing with any kind of parts....


----------



## dragonfyra

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere, but noob question coming up...

 How do I cut those 2 caps off?

 Edit: 

 Nevermind... used a nail clipper and it came off quite easily.

 Unfortunately, it still dies on the left channel after 30 seconds or so.... 

 I don't think I can send the OPA back to Kingwa for exchange with the caps cut off now. =O


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dragonfyra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, thanks for the heads up, muad, I'll try that once I get home.

 Last night when I was trying the opa's I stupidly (noob = me) put the original opa back in but the wrong way... turned on the amp, saw white smoke coming out, quickly turned it off, it was only for a second though, hopefully I didn't wreck anything ... -_-!_

 

Hopefully I had guessed that it may have happenned to me and I checked with slim.a the way I had to insert the LME49720HA TO-99 in the socket to prevent things from blowing up.


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Edoardo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello!

 I was just going to purchase a pair of DT-880 250Ω to couple with a FUN... Maybe you saved me

 @ Currawong: What do you mean with "regular beyers"? 

 Do you boys think that purchasing a pair of DT-880 600Ω would be a better solution, or a good choiche definitely?_

 

I cannot tell you with a 600 Ohms DT 880, you may ask to whoeven has one coupled with FUN. Mine is 32 Ohms and I experience the "problem" by I must say this is far less annoying and present than with my previous setup with sound card where it happenned far more often and was much more unpleasant. And the huge improvement FUN brought make it very worth purchasing anyway.
 So except if you are planning to listen to tracks at high volume with a lot of high treble all the time, like high-pitched female voice it won't really be a problem.


----------



## Edoardo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pacha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I cannot tell you with a 600 Ohms DT 880, you may ask to whoeven has one coupled with FUN. Mine is 32 Ohms and I experience the "problem" by I must say this is far less annoying and present than with my previous setup with sound card where it happenned far more often and was much more unpleasant. And the huge improvement FUN brought make it very worth purchasing anyway.
 So except if you are planning to listen to tracks at high volume with a lot of high treble all the time, like high-pitched female voice it won't really be a problem._

 

I don't listen to loud volumes at all, but I love female voices and know them well... I'm afraid that a setup that doesn't reproduce them properly would highly disappoint me...


----------



## TheDuke990

Please give me some days. I hope I get my Fun latest on Monday and then I can start testing it with my Beyer 880 (600Ohm).


----------



## Edoardo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please give me some days. I hope I get my Fun latest on Monday and then I can start testing it with my Beyer 880 (600Ohm)._

 

I'm waiting for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thank you very very much


----------



## dragonfyra

Dt880/600 here
 It's quite smooth with the Moon OPA, I actually prefer the Earth OPA, except mine's not not working.

 The treble isn't that bad, and I've only got it for a day, I assume things will smooth out even more so soon.


----------



## Zikt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only the v2 opa earth has the interference issue. Kingwa recommended us to cut the caps off..._

 

Thanks


----------



## ckghagen

Some news
*The new modules for BNC digital input:*
 Now the FUN has a new module for replace the USB input instead BNC input.It can accept 96KHz/24Bit input for applied the best sound receiver DIR9001.


 Bbenefits of BNC against optical or SPDIF ?

 What things are using BNC ?


----------



## geek101

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ckghagen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some news
*The new modules for BNC digital input:*
 Now the FUN has a new module for replace the USB input instead BNC input.It can accept 96KHz/24Bit input for applied the best sound receiver DIR9001.


 Bbenefits of BNC against optical or SPDIF ?

 What things are using BNC ?_

 


M2Tech HiFace USB to SPDIF or BNC Interface


----------



## Edoardo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ckghagen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some news
*The new modules for BNC digital input:*
 Now the FUN has a new module for replace the USB input instead BNC input.It can accept 96KHz/24Bit input for applied the best sound receiver DIR9001.


 Bbenefits of BNC against optical or SPDIF ?

 What things are using BNC ?_

 


 Hello, So, USB 24/96 input instead of the 16/48??? :regular_smile 

 Will it need any drivers?


----------



## realmassy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Edoardo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, So, USB 24/96 input instead of the 16/48??? :regular_smile 

 Will it need any drivers?_

 

Edoardo,
 I can see a lot of FUN in your future!
 You'll soon join the Audio-GD club :-D


----------



## Edoardo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *realmassy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edoardo,
 I can see a lot of FUN in your future!
 You'll soon join the Audio-GD club :-D_

 

I think so...


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *realmassy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edoardo,
 I can see a lot of FUN in your future!
 You'll soon join the Audio-GD club :-D_

 

Please post your views once you test it.


----------



## Pacha

I forgot to test the soft modes using jumper settings, I've done it now and found the soft mode 1 quite close to the neutral mode though "softened" a bit. The soft 2 is even more soft, and so does the third. The last two especially attenuates treble too much in my opinion and make things less transparent.
 I'll stay in neutral mode.


----------



## TheDuke990

Which connection do you prefer or think is better ?
 1. Fun to PC via USB
 or
 2. Fun to PC via SPDIF coax (with extra soundcard e.g. X-FI (bit correct)).


----------



## Pacha

I'd say FUN to PC via RCA to HiFace RCA or now that there is a BNC module replacing the USB one, FUN to PC via BNC to HiFace BNC version.


----------



## TheDuke990

Thanks but this was not the question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 USB (direct) or SPDIF (via extra soundcard) ?


----------



## dragonfyra

I was just trying that out with my FUN

 a) the realtek onboard sound spdif to the FUN (with the canare line bought from Audio-gd)
 vs
 b) usb connection (with the stock usb line that came with the amp)

 the spdif connection had much more clarity and soundstage, when I changed to the USB connection, at first I felt like I was getting more bottom end, bass seemed to be much more prevalent, but everything was flat, and lost the sparkle and clarity, the music sounded flat. Interestingly the usb connection gave out more volume, it could be because I've been using the spdif all along and it had more burn-in, which caused these differences? Either way, I don't think I'm going to go back to the usb line unless one day I get my hands on a better usb cable (furutech?)

 I imagine the spdif with any decent soundcard would better the sound by a lot compared with the usb connection, since it even sounded better from the cruddy realtek onboard that I have. 

 Guess I know what I get next....
 Sorry wallet....


----------



## Cousin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ckghagen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some news
*The new modules for BNC digital input:*
 Now the FUN has a new module for replace the USB input instead BNC input.It can accept 96KHz/24Bit input for applied the best sound receiver DIR9001._

 

I don't understand why they introduce the new BNC input module in addition to the original Coaxial input. 
 It seems that, in all other Audio-GD's DAC products, BNC and Coaxial are only different types of connector but connecting to the same input. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (please correct me if I'm wrong)


----------



## Pacha

It has something to do with real 75 Ohms connection of BNC vs RCA. Plus BNC is supposed to be better (less jitter).


----------



## TheDuke990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dragonfyra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I imagine the spdif with any decent soundcard would better the sound by a lot compared with the usb connection, since it even sounded better from the cruddy realtek onboard that I have. 

 Guess I know what I get next....
 Sorry wallet...._

 

Thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 What do you want to get next ?


----------



## dragonfyra

Think I might try to get a better soundcard to see if it improves the spdif out, not sure if it will be a considerable difference though... =/

 I wonder how a nice little usb to spdif transport would differ as well, I keep thinking anything will be better than the realtek that I have... not sure if i'm going down the right track, or if I should rather spend the money on other upgrades for the FUN (better power cord, and power supply).


----------



## muad

I personally did not like usb on either of the USB dacs Ive owned. The spdif always sounded better to me, but your mileage may vary. 

 Well it finally happened. I came home one day after leaving it on all day and the sound was too muffled and kinda muddy. Keep in mind I had switched to the opa moon and to the other oversampling mode to defeat the harshness. I came close to buying the fet module and the wolfson dac a few times. SlimA talked some sense into my head but I had serious doubts that the burnin could be so dramatic. So after noticing that the the sound was too subdued, I promptly swapped the oversampling rate and put the opa earth back in. Now my upgraditis is cured! The sound is perfect. It now walks the fine line between smooth and detailed. The harshenss and digitized sound that was present in the first 200 hours has completely dissapeared. Kingwa seriously knows what he's doing! Now this next part may sound a little crazy. I went in to a high end hifi store the other day. Where I got to listen to some 8-16K dollar B&W speakers hooked up to mcintosh and classe amps and cd players. They destroy my setup when it comes to power, but my budget components actually sounded similar and in some cases better to my ears. All the setups were well broken in and properly setup.The one was so transparent and bright it hurt my ears. The others were better but nothing spectacular. I found the easier to listen to setups had a boring soundstage while the very detailed ones were very detailed but way too harsh. I know the audioengine5 speakers I have aren't exactly high end and some people find fault with them. Muddy lows and recessed highs come to mind. These were from people using dacs in the same price range as the FUN. I think the Fun and A5's compliment each other very well. The AudioGd fun really has a great balanced and natural sound. I couldn't imagine how good the dac19 must sound. 

 As for a comaprison to the maverick D1 that I was asked for earlier. Keep in mind my impressions are all based on using the Fun as a dac and preamp for powered speakers(audioengine A5). I don't have any headphones that could do either of the Dacs justice. The maverick is a nice sounding unit but it's no match for the Fun. The Maverick was very easy listening with a considerable loss in detail and sound stage. Also the music and sound stage was very recessed, it was all very "in the background". The base was smoother and had less puch to it. The most prominent example I can think of was when listening to Springsteen. On the maverick his voice is smooth and his raspiness is gone. He sounded more like Eddie Vedder. The Fun definitely is more faithful to the recordings. The maverick may be for you, it all depends what you're after.

 Flame away.... Im too happy with the Fun to care


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dragonfyra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Think I might try to get a better soundcard to see if it improves the spdif out, not sure if it will be a considerable difference though... =/

 I wonder how a nice little usb to spdif transport would differ as well, I keep thinking anything will be better than the realtek that I have... not sure if i'm going down the right track, or if I should rather spend the money on other upgrades for the FUN (better power cord, and power supply)._

 

Then you may consider M2tech HiFace USB to S/PDIF as it is reported to be leading in this matter.
 I can't tell you with mine as I didn't compare it with my soundcard digital out which requires an jack to RCA adapter but there are really a lot of points about that here http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/us...hiface-446375/
 and elsewhere on the web.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pacha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then you may consider M2tech HiFace USB to S/PDIF as it is reported to be leading in this matter.
 I can't tell you with mine as I didn't compare it with my soundcard digital out which requires an jack to RCA adapter but there are really a lot of points about that here http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/us...hiface-446375/
 and elsewhere on the web._

 

For those intersted on the m2tech hiface, I have compiled some comparisons and references here : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/usb...hiface-449885/


----------



## dragonfyra

Thanks Pacha and Slim.A, I actually read that long, detailed comparison of the converters. I'll also check out that thread about the M2 and consider that. 

 It should be a considerable improvement over the realtek onboard spdif out, right?

 Btw, Slim.A, you're selling your C2C + DAC19 combo?


----------



## RonO

Small point of clarification please - 

 I've been reading and re-reading this thread for several days. The OPA options for the Fun, it appears from the website that they go in the DAC output area of the FUN. When I first started reading about Compass and then the Fun, I assumed the HDAM options were "the" amplifier OPA's, like the opamp on my Cmoy. The website states the dac opamp is OPA2134, and it appears most of the owners are using Earth or Moon HDAM in the DAC output. Is the ACSS "gain" module what is the final amplifier for the headphone output?

 Thanks,

 RonO


----------



## Mad Max

That's right, more or less. If you want to play with opamps, get the Chips Gain modules, which replace the ACSS, so you can mess with opamps in the amplifier section. If you haven't gotten a FUN yet but you don't plan on gaming much and you want the Earth module for the DAC section, I recommend a pair of ADA4627-1BRZ on a 2x1 adapter instead. It's more neutral and accurate than Earth and is smoother and more detailed to boot. Earth is still the better choice for a gamer, however.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dragonfyra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Pacha and Slim.A, I actually read that long, detailed comparison of the converters. I'll also check out that thread about the M2 and consider that. 

 It should be a considerable improvement over the realtek onboard spdif out, right?

 Btw, Slim.A, you're selling your C2C + DAC19 combo?_

 

Yes, the m2tech hiface (or other good usb to spdif converters as weel) should considerably improve upon onboard spdif out. In my experience, getting a "clean" spdif out is very important to get a good sound quality from the DAC. 

 As for the question about the dac19mk3+C2C, yes I am selling them ... to get the newer dac19dsp+C2
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 mainly because I am curisous to try different setting on the digital filters of the dac19dsp and to try the ACSS connection versus my reference interconnects. Hopefully, it won't sound too different from my current set-up as I really like it.


----------



## haloxt

Should wait to get a ref 1 and roc combo instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## jp_zer0

Alright, I got my FUN and it took me about 3 seconds to shed a tear and realize how bad the uDAC is.

 No OPA earth yet either. I'll take some time with it and write up something later.


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As for the question about the dac19mk3+C2C, yes I am selling them ... to get the newer dac19dsp+C2
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 mainly because I am curisous to try different setting on the digital filters of the dac19dsp and to try the ACSS connection versus my reference interconnects. Hopefully, it won't sound too different from my current set-up as I really like it._

 

Have you already ordered it? I'd be very interested in your review and compararison of DAC19 DSP with the new C2 versus the FUN alone.
 If the improvement is quite big I may consider upgrading in the end, especially if I finally order a T1 when back available in Europe elsewhere than on Beyer's web store.


----------



## TheDuke990

I have a question regarding burn in.
 How do you burn in amps ? Do you connect a headphone to it or it is possible to burn in w/o a headphone ?
 Which input to you choose when the amp has more than one input connection. It doesn't matter which connection or the one you will use in the future (after burn in).

 Thanks


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pacha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you already ordered it? I'd be very interested in your review and compararison of DAC19 DSP with the new C2 versus the FUN alone.
 If the improvement is quite big I may consider upgrading in the end, especially if I finally order a T1 when back available in Europe elsewhere than on Beyer's web store._

 

I have just ordered the dac19dsp and C2 this morning. So hopefully, it won't be too long before I receive them. 
 I was initially going to wait to buy them until I sell the dac19mk3 and C2C but I didn't want to stay too long without a proper set-up.

 By the way, the dac19mk3+C2C is already a big step-up over the FUN alone (with the silver cabled sennheiser). 
 My guess is that the dac19dsp+C2 will be an even bigger step-up over the FUN alone with a high end can such as the Beyer T1.

 I will report back my findings of the dac19dsp+C2 vs. FUN when I receive them.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question regarding burn in.
 How do you burn in amps ? Do you connect a headphone to it or it is possible to burn in w/o a headphone ?
 Which input to you choose when the amp has more than one input connection. It doesn't matter which connection or the one you will use in the future (after burn in).

 Thanks_

 

I don't have a definite answer as the whole burn-in issue is a very shady area.

 Personally, I connect the headphones when I am burning-in headphone amps. I also alternate between the high impedance hd-650 and some lower impedance (cheap) headphone just to provide different loads to the amp. I don't know for sure if that makes any difference but I just do it anyway.

 However, the think that seems to speed up the burn-in process is either playing pink noise or the Isotek Burn-in CD. It seems to me that components burn-in faster with pink noise and the Isotek CD than they do when playing music.


----------



## haloxt

Wouldn't it be better to get the ref 3 to use with your dac19mk3? Can't someone mod the dac19mk3 and c2c to output and input cast, or half-cast?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wouldn't it be better to get the ref 3 to use with your dac19mk3? Can't someone mod the dac19mk3 and c2c to output and input cast, or half-cast?_

 

Hi haloxt,

 I thought for a moment to get the ref3 to use with the dac19mk3. But Kingwa himself told me that it would be overkill with the dac19mk3. He told me that to get the full benefit of the ref3, you need something like the ref1. And to get the full benefit of the ref1, you need a balanced amp like the Phoenix (or the ROC).

 Anyway, I was pretty satisfied with the sound of the dac19mk3. I was just curious to try the new dsp and try running it in NOS mode.
 One of the things I would like to try is to run the following:
 Foobar - 16/44 - SoX - Upsampling to 24/96 with the minimum phase filter - DAC 19 DSP NOS (oversampling bypassed). 
 Also, according to Kingwa, the DSP is more neutral sounding than both PMD100 and DF1704.

 I also wanted to try the ACSS connection and see if a cheap cable like Audio-gd's Shark ACSS cable can compete with a more expensive cable such as the Artisan Silver Dream.

 Overall, I like tweaks and trying different things. The dac19dsp/C2 combo will allow me to try different things while keeping the cost reasonable (and single ended). I hope that explains why I took this "upgrade" route


----------



## haloxt

Just because you can't take full advantage of a ref 3 converter with a dac19mk3 or take full advantage of a ref 1 with the c2c doesn't mean you won't get a lot of improvement. Kingwa told me it wasn't a very good idea to pair my dac19mk3 with phoenix but that it would allow the phoenix to do some good, and I think it was worth it. Likewise, I suspect you'll get more from a ref 3+dac19mk3+c2c than a dac19dsp+c2. Or more from a ref1+c2c than a dac19dsp+c2.

 Kingwa did do half-cast for dac19mk3+c2c before, if it's easy to mod maybe you can find someone who can do that for your current dac19mk3 and c2c.


----------



## jp_zer0

anyone know a good way to get some grip on that little OPA bugger? I'm trying to remove it so I can install my Earth OPA.

 *edit* sadly the OPA did not survive the operation :\D (well I could bend the pins back in position I guess...)

 *edit2* Earth removed a fair bit of warmth there, not sure I like it. The warmth worked well with the AD900. I regret not tossing in a Moon OPA. :\


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question regarding burn in.
 How do you burn in amps ? Do you connect a headphone to it or it is possible to burn in w/o a headphone ?
 Which input to you choose when the amp has more than one input connection. It doesn't matter which connection or the one you will use in the future (after burn in).

 Thanks_

 

I usually pick out some cans that could use some time on them and use them as a load. But I did ask KW about this and he said you don't need to use a load for burn in on his gear.


----------



## TheDuke990

@les garten: thanks for the information.

 Today I received my Fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Delivery takes only 2 days from ampcity. Very nice !
 But up to now I don't have the time to compare Fun, aune and my X-FI.

 But I had the time to make photo to compare the dimension.


----------



## Edoardo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@les garten: thanks for the information.

 Today I received my Fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Delivery takes only 2 days from ampcity. Very nice !
 But up to now I don't have the time to compare Fun, aune and my X-FI.

 But I had the time to make photo to compare the dimension.


_

 

Waiting for you opinion on the FUN + DT-880 couple...


----------



## nth

Could someone please measure how tall their FUN is, including the feet? The Audio-GD site only specifies the footless height.


----------



## TheDuke990

Round about 8 - 8,2cm.


----------



## Currawong

An unexpected usefulness of the OPAMP rolling just came to light, as I now have the Fun in my speaker rig with Paradigm Titans, with a Paradigm Zamp powering the speakers. Since speaker position and room acoustics are critical, sometimes it's not always easy to get the ideal position for speakers to sound right. I've been able to tune the sound a little by, say, swapping 2x OPA627s into the DAC to take the edge off the treble, or the Moon for a "bigger" sound or some other OPAMPs for something else different.


----------



## dragonfyra

To Curra, or any other brothers here:

 How would you rate the dac portion of the Fun? 
 Is it worth keeping in the future as a DAC only option if I get another amp to upgrade (ie. C2), or is it more worthwhile to invest in a better DAC and use the Fun as an amp, in your opinion?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dragonfyra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To Curra, or any other brothers here:

 How would you rate the dac portion of the Fun? 
 Is it worth keeping in the future as a DAC only option if I get another amp to upgrade (ie. C2), or is it more worthwhile to invest in a better DAC and use the Fun as an amp, in your opinion?_

 

Personally, if I were given the choice between: the dac19mk3+FUN or FUN+C2, I would choose the dac19mk3+FUN without hesitation. But this is just a matter of personal opinion as I am usually more sensitive to the quality of the DAC than to the quality of the amp. Other people might feel differently.


----------



## muad

Im considering getting the Wolfson Dac module and replacing the WM8740 with either the WM8741 or WM8742. Not because I need to but as a project. I sent kingwa an email about this as I still wait for my PCM1704 dac to hopefully come to fruition  Anyways here's a quote I got from the internet about what this would entail...

  Quote:


 The WM8741 is a near replacement for the WM8740 -- which has been around since, I believe, 2004. Not a direct replacement because it is operationally different in allowable voltage rails: the WM8740 allowed the analog rail to be between 3.0 V and 5.5 V. With the WM8741 the range is 4.5 V to 5.5 V. On the digital interface the WM8740 allows from 3.0 V to 5.5 V while the WM8741 tightens it to 3.0 V to 3.6 V. Also, if your current WM8740 application uses the mode multiplexers you cannot replace the part with the newer one, because the muxes are not there. 
 

Any ideas or opinions?


----------



## Currawong

muad: I don't think it'd make enough difference to matter. 

 As for comparing DACs, I have for a while been considering a transportable headphone rig of some sort, so recently, when a Pico DAC came up at a good price on the forums, I nabbed it, as it has a very good reputation for sound quality. Of course, I was curious how it performs vs. the Fun, so I hooked them both up with identical cables to my amps (the Fun from the DAC out) and had a listen. The Fun, with DIR9001, WM8740 (same as the Pico) and OPA2134, connected via USB to the same hub as the Pico, sounded almost the same, with a slight edge over the Pico in instrument separation and clarity. If I put better OPAMPs or a HDAM in the Fun, then the improvement in SQ was clear. The Pico DAC still has the advantage in being very small (and cheaper to ship) and the Fun in flexibility of connections and whatnot, but it was interesting all the same.


----------



## TheDuke990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are two possible jumper spots on the module. The one closer to the front is to set it to 192khz (stock setting) while the pins near the rear are 96khz. The 96khz is perfect and gets rid of any harshness. Also this way you're not applying any kind of "soft" filtering to your music.

 This was posted before but it was kinda confusing to understand what was being said._

 

Are you really sure ? I understand it the other way round.

 Stock setting is nearer to the rear and this is 192kHz filter. Nearer to the front is 96kHz.

 What is correct ? Now I'm a little bit confused 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Pacha

For me, closest to the front jumper setting was stock setting.


----------



## TheDuke990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pacha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me, closest to the front jumper setting was stock setting._

 

Okay and this is 96 or 192 ?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay and this is 96 or 192 ?_

 

When I asked Kingwa about it, he said that he tested both fine at 192.


----------



## TheDuke990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I asked Kingwa about it, he said that he tested both fine at 192._

 

Strange ! Or isn't it ?

 It doesn't matter. I will test both jumper settings and keep the for me better sounding one. Also I will test the other jumpers as well (sound signature). But first I have to get my OPA earth. Unfortunately I get the single Earth but the Fun needs the dual Earth.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Strange ! Or isn't it ?

 It doesn't matter. I will test both jumper settings and keep the for me better sounding one. Also I will test the other jumpers as well (sound signature). But first I have to get my OPA earth. Unfortunately I get the single Earth but the Fun needs the dual Earth._

 

Yes, it seems that the AD1852 data sheet is incomplete.

 This is not the first time I see that. For example, if you look at the data sheet of the PCM1704, it says that it is a 24/96 dac chip.
 However, it accepts 8x oversampling at the digital filter level. So in fact it can accept up to 24/384khz (while at first glance you can think that it is limited at 24/96).
 I found a similar thing with PMD100 : the data sheet says it is limited to 24/55 while I have tested it successfully at 24/88.

 Anyway, I will try to put back the CS8416 dir and test the 24/192 capability of the AD1852 for myself. I will report back the results.

 Edit -- Since I had already opened the FUN, I swapped the digital filters pretty quickly. I tried 24/192K with both jumper settings and it worked fine. I left the jumper in the position that is closer to the front of the unit.


----------



## TheDuke990

Unfortunately up to now my OPA Earth isn't delivered yet but today I had the time to compare the Fun with my aune (with changed OPA to LME49720NA).

 First of all both have more than enough power to drive my Beyer DT880 Ed. 2005 (600 Ohm) proper (or properly ?). What is the correct on ? Sorry I know my English sucks . But I try to give my best .

 Now to the 2nd most important thing -> the sound.
 Up to now the aune made a good job. Sounds a lot better than my headphone jack from my X-FI. But after comparing the aune with the Fun I changed my mine.
 The aune is not a quarter as good as I thought. The aune has no chance against the Fun.

 The Fun sounds so much more accurate, clearer and more open.
 When I'm listen to the aune I can now hear a veil in the mid and highs. My first impression hearing the Fun was "oh my god where is the bass ?". 
 But this impression was wrong, not the bass is gone -> no the mids and highs are joining the party and each kind of music sounds so much better compared to the aune.


*aune:* sounds better than my X-FI but with a noticeable veil in the mids and highs
*Fun:* much better than the aune and definitely the money worth. No not worth ... a steal for that price !


 Therefore I would like to say thank you to everyone who helped me to decide getting a Fun. Especially slim.a for this thread and his work (contacting kingwa, trying different configs, etc.). Nice job !


----------



## superchan

Receive today mine first headphone AMP/DAC. This is also first time i just those device. compare to standard laptop sound its amazing now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i don't have other device to compare with this.
 After burn in i will try to switch it with the OPA-EARTH Module.


----------



## muad

Burn it in with the opa earth installed. The Audio-gd HDAM's have a burn in period of their own.


----------



## superchan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Burn it in with the opa earth installed. The Audio-gd HDAM's have a burn in period of their own._

 

ow crap i didn't know that a opa earth need a burn in too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 thx for the tip. But i like the sound at the moment


----------



## muad

I found the whole thing too bright and harsh during burn in. But what amazed me was how clean and clear the Fun was and still is...


----------



## sinner6

FWIW, last night I finally clipped the exterior capacitors from my Earth HDAM...
 ...as predicted, no ill effect. If anything, the balance seems better, perhaps an effect of fully seating the HDAM.

 Anywhoo...


----------



## tresperros

Hello guys!

 it's my first post/test here


 so let's begin

 FUN has arrived today's morning, oopphh...I've been waiting impatiently for a while

 First impression - very good,
 product well and secure packed, quite heavy, means - reliable
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 it looks quite nice, all knobs give nice resistance when you turn'em,
 sockets -good job, neutrik for phones and nice rca at the back, 
 big rubber feet, unit doesn't slip

 summing - solid and good looking



 now there's few flaws I need to mention

 1. when I engage LINE OUT (mute speakers for headphone listening) I still have signal going out to speakers !
 it's HPF about 8-10 kHz, but it quite audible and very annoying honestly..
 I don't know it's my unit or just problem with FUN, but for sure it's not acceptable, when I want to mute speakers and listen on phones.
 I want to stress, it's not very quiet it's like listening loud phones from 1 m. distance, just high freq

 2. when I push SELECT knob or LINE OUT, I have very loud CLICKS in monitors!
 LINE OUT is really LOUD and unpleasant.... not very cool 

 3. VOLUME knob issue. With max attenuation I can hear left channel, but when I turn it up a bit it's attenuated max, so not perfect here..(again I really think my unit is broken, can't believe so many serious issues with brand new item)

 4. my unit has some dips and scratches close to 2 knobs, nothing serious, plus screws on top are uneven, seems someone was in rush mounting box;
 knobs markers looks like someone did it with a hammer and flat screwdriver
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, nothing serious but with minimal effort it could look much better, especially SELECT knob is imperfect....anyway I can live with it, little visual imperfections are no biggie for me, but point 1 and 2 are real flaws, especially 1, it's red card IMO (again maybe it's just my unit, so please other users let me know about this issue with your units)

 let's get to testing unit 

 I would like to test all functions; DAC, preamp, headphone amp.

 equipment involved:
 - acoustically treated room, please check details here (home - mixing and mastering online)
 - monitors - PMC TB2
 - amp - tube power amp HFA 12, 12 W class A per channel
 - cables Belden 
 - cans - HD600

 DAC&headphones amps to test :

 1.FUN gd, ver A (I hope so, I haven't receive any manual or info within box)
 2. Caiman Beresford( almost same options like FUN, except analog IN)
 3. RME hammerfall DSP, MULTIFACE I
 4. Behringer SRC 2496

 first test - DAC&headphones amp

 how it was done :


 Foobar2000-> RME's toslink-> SRC 2496 (digital outs split, so I can connect FUN and Caiman at once)-> FUN (headphones amp - HD600
 and - Caiman headphones amp- HD600
 SRC and RME has own headphones outs, so after setting up volumes I started tests

 from SRC I plugged digital rca out to FUN and same rca (AES/EBU) to Caiman, then swap them to notice any difference - none
 SRC role was just splitting spdif to 2 units - FUN and Caiman

 I need to add, that my FUN was only 48 h burned in, as I was told by AmpCity, not 100h as stated at Kingwa's site, don't know why, but I understand unit need to bur in another at least another 100 (AmpCity told me)

 it's important, 'cause very possible SQ and characteristic will improve after burning in 
 anyway I will do another testing next weekend after 100 h of pink noising 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I tested on different kind of music, chose the best recordings I have, music I really know very well (different speakers, different cans, listened in different rooms)
 What I did, was just swapping phone jack between units, after setting (as close as I could) loudnes level.


 first impression :

 very disappointed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I checked very well for a couple of hours, swapped cables and music, but impression hasn't change at all

 FUN is worst sounding headphones amp from tested group, 
 same ballpark like SRC (I don't consider SRC as headphone amp at all, but actually after plugging FUN, Caiman and RME (firstly I wanted to compare Caiman to FUN; similar funtions, similar price, but after finding how bad FUN sounds, I tested RME and SRC too)
 it's very close to SRC 2496, headphone amp - ugly sounding amp, lack of bass, clarity and nasty highs, 
 After some time I can say that FUN and SRC 2496 sounds very similar, with SRC sounding more balanced in mids and less harsh.

 Comparing Caiman's headphone amp and FUN wasn't fair, it's absolutely different league.
 FUN sounds ugly and cheap, lack of low end and low mids, ugly distorted highs, backed off middle freq, when Caiman sound comparing to FUN is high end
 absolutely fantastic !, well balanced, with extended low end, beautiful and detailed top end, and super sweet mids....
 after comparison FUN to Caiman, I checked RME's headphones out and found that it sound much better then FUN, much better balanced, with extended low and top end, not veiled mids and without ugly distortions like FUN has
 again I hope my unit is broken (some of users will tell it is please !) and that's a reason of it bad sound

 Interesting is when I plugged Caiman LINE OUT to FUN analog IN, FUN sound a bit better, less harsh, and mostly important mids and lows (low end and low mids) showed up, and general balance was much better. Anyway general unpleasant 'brittle' and 'cheap' characteristic was still there, so It must be more Preamp quality then DAC itself. 

 I did test Line OUT and DIGI in signal within FUN pink noise and SPL meter, there's no loudness difference, maybe within 0.2 dB (spl meter's scale is within 1 dB so it's difficult to notice smaller differences) using speakers obviously.
 Anyway Caiman's DAC sounds superior to FUN, no doubts here.
 Caiman's DAC/phone combination puts FUN in sonic kindergarten, there's not even a sense to describe sonic differences between those two units.


 I read this very forum and bought FUN after couple of days collecting information, and after my tests, so far it's really disappointing



 now testing DAC&preamp combination (variable out)

 this isn't so easy like with headphones, where after matching volume levels, all I did was plugging/unplugging phone's jack between units. Discerning musical and sound quality differences within 1-2 sec breaks is much easier then within 1 minute......
 I have tube power amp, so no easy switch/plug in/out. To test I have to switch amp off, re-plug cables, and switch on. About 1 min break in between. I focus only on two units – FUN and Caiman here, 'cause neither RME or SRC has preamp functions.

 Methodology:
 again PC/RME digi out to FUN optical in, or CAIMAN optical in, and then out to HFA12 (tube power amp) via variable out, so utilizing VOLUME knob on both units, hence testing preamp 
 with FUN I can test via analog in (just preamp section without DAC) plugging output of different DACs (SRC2496, RME, Caiman)
 where with Caiman I can test only DAC&preamp combination together.

 Now it's definitively more difficult tusk. I am certainly biased what I've heard via phones, but I will try my best.
 I rather wanted to test FUN and just compare it to other units, then describe sonic quality of every unit, so I will focus on FUN.

 Sadly to say, FUN's pre&DAC combination and Caiman's DAC&pre combination is different league again. It's very similar like on phones, just bigger picture. FUN distorts higher freq, doesn't have such a sweetness in mids, nor low or top end. Everything is smaller and 'uglier' here, less details, and narrower, less 3 d sound. Caiman is very musical, very detailed, and very important doesn't distort transients, sounds warm and natural, open and balanced. What I like in FUN is sound of snare on most recordings, FUN adds some sort of brightness and brittle to it, which in those genres of music is appealing. What is very important on Caiman I can discern low notes quite easy (it's on one hand very well treated room, and on other good DAC?), where on FUN it's just blurry rumble somewhere in low end.
 Anyway, not what I expected before buying FUN, and what I expected after listening on phones.

 DAC vs DAC

 I need to wait with this test. My mixing desk is at service (over month now with some really simple things) anyway I need to wait for next week Monday/Tuesday.
 Testing just DAC will be straightforward. Split digital signal to Caiman, FUN, RME and then via line out to analog desk on different channels. Then it will be very precisely level matched (0.1 dB).
 I own Mackie ONYX desk, very quiet, quality mixing desk. I send it to 4 different channels and then solo/mute one by one for testing. I will utilize my wife for a blind test ( so she won't tell me what DAC is tested). Then I will share with you my thoughts 
 I think maybe give FUN one more week and then properly check/test it., but I strongly believe my unit is %$”” (waiting for other users input).


 So far I am very disappointed about SQ and performance of FUN, and if it won't magically improve after burning-in, my unit goes back to seller....

 just to add, I am not related to Beresford in any way
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




,
 I am just end user trying to find best product. 

 happy reading


----------



## TheDuke990

1. when I engage LINE OUT (mute speakers for headphone listening) I still have signal going out to speakers !
 it's HPF about 8-10 kHz, but it quite audible and very annoying honestly..
 I don't know it's my unit or just problem with FUN, but for sure it's not acceptable, when I want to mute speakers and listen on phones.
 I want to stress, it's not very quiet it's like listening loud phones from 1 m. distance, just high freq

*The same here but really quiet*

 2. when I push SELECT knob or LINE OUT, I have very loud CLICKS in monitors!
 LINE OUT is really LOUD and unpleasant.... not very cool 

*Unfortunately the same here again but not very loud*


 I compared the Fun with an aune Mini USB DAC and my X-FI soundcard and for me the sound from the Fun is so much better. Unfortunately I cannot compare to other headamps.
 The Fun sounds clearer without a veil in mids or highs like the aune or X-FI. With the aune and X-FI the sound is a little bit muffled and a lot of resolution is lost.


----------



## superchan

how to remove out OPA2134 for replace to a OPA-EARTH Modules ?? It look like the standard one is solder on it ??


----------



## jp_zer0

I'm sorry tresperros but FUN version A standard comes with the AD2134 opamp which has more bass than neutral. Not sure how you can say it's lacking bass.


----------



## TheDuke990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *superchan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how to remove out OPA2134 for replace to a OPA-EARTH Modules ?? It look like the standard one is solder on it ??_

 

Is not soldered. You can change it easily.

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## superchan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is not soldered. You can change it easily.

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1_

 

thx just remove it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 what easily i have almost broke that standard one


----------



## muad

Seriously transperros, it sounds like something is really wrong with yours? One question, what is the volume on the fun set at and what is the volume of the speakers set at?

 edit: sorry I read your name wrong as pointed out below ....


----------



## Mad Max

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seriously transperros, it sounds like something is really wrong with yours? One question, what is the volume on the fun set at and what is the volume of the speakers set at?_

 

"trans-"?
 It's "tresPerros" or "tres" (_three_), "perros" (_dogs_).
 lol


----------



## slim.a

@ tresperros: as muad suggested, it looks like your unit might be deffective in some way. It is weird that it had only 48 hours of burn-in. The usual 100h burn-in done by audio-gd is not only done for sonic reasons but also for quality check. 

 Could you take pictures of the internals? That way, we can verify if it is indeed version A and if everything is fitting properly in their sockets. 
 BTW, what opamp is fitted inside and is it inserted properly? I am asking that because my unit came with no opamp inserted in.


----------



## tresperros

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ tresperros: as muad suggested, it looks like your unit might be deffective in some way. It is weird that it had only 48 hours of burn-in. The usual 100h burn-in done by audio-gd is not only done for sonic reasons but also for quality check. 

 Could you take pictures of the internals? That way, we can verify if it is indeed version A and if everything is fitting properly in their sockets. 
 BTW, what opamp is fitted inside and is it inserted properly? I am asking that because my unit came with no opamp inserted in._

 

Hello,

 First, thanks for help. I should ask those questions AmpCity. As I said they told me unit was burned in for 48h only, and I remember info at Kingwa's web about 100 hours.
 Anyway I can see that someone else has same issues like mine (both unit broken?) plus clicks when you press buttons and what is absolutely unacceptable - audio out on monitors when engaged LINE OUT.

 Please other users, can you confirm that ?

 I hope someone from AmpCity will chime in and support me with issue.
 They stated that they tested Caiman vs FUN and FUN was much better, so quite opposite to my opinion. One is sure, I trust my ears and my room, so there are only 2 options. My unit is broken or test wasn't fair

 photos here:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...l/DSCF6116.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...l/DSCF6117.jpg

 One more thing, How it's possible that you got unit without opamps, when they state it's 100 hrs test for quality ???
 Honestly it sounds at least suspicious (quality testing)


----------



## tresperros

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jp_zer0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry tresperros but FUN version A standard comes with the AD2134 opamp which has more bass than neutral. Not sure how you can say it's lacking bass._

 

there's bass, but:
 1. lacks a definition, it's muddy, hence difficult to discern single notes
 2. there's now low end (comparing to Caiman) 
 3. low mids are backed off, or maybe it's just - 1.

 I am sorry, but like I stated before it's possible my unit has some issues.
 Anyway I am not 'opamp' junkie
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, all I can say is what I can hear comparing 2 similar devices, that's it.

 have a good day


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tresperros* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 I should ask those questions AmpCity. As I said they told me unit was burned in for 48h only, and I remember info at Kingwa's web about 100 hours.
 Anyway I can see that someone else has same issues like mine (both unit broken?) I will try to make photos, but my unit's screws are improperly screwed (looks like somebody was really rushing) so I don't know it will work.
 Anyway someone mentioned clicks when you press buttons and what is absolutely unacceptable - audio out on monitors when engaged LINE OUT.

 Please other users, can you confirm that ?

 I hope someone from AmpCity will chime in and support me with issue.
 They stated that they tested Caiman vs FUN and FUN was much better, so quite opposite to my opinion. One is sure, I trust my ears and my room, so there are only 2 options. My unit is broken or test wasn't fair_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tresperros* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_there's bass, but:
 1. lacks a definition, it's muddy, hence difficult to discern single notes
 2. there's now low end (comparing to Caiman) 
 3. low mids are backed off, or maybe it's just - 1.

 I am sorry, but like I stated before it's possible my unit has some issues.
 Anyway I am not 'opamp' junkie
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, all I can say is what I can hear comparing 2 similar devices, that's it.

 have a good day_

 

Hi tresperros,

 The way you describe sonically the FUN is different from what everybody has done so before, that is why I assumed it was broken. If you hadn't open the unit to check that everything is fine inside, we can't help you at all. As I said earlier even something as small as an opamp, can do a lot of damage to the sound. At one point 2 years ago, I thought the left driver of my sennheiser hd-650 was broken until I realized that an opamp in the DAC section wasn't sitted properly.

 As far as sound quality is concerned, I am not saying that the Caiman can't sound better. However, the way you are describing (muddy, distortion in the highs, ...) doesn't fit the description of the FUN. Of course there are DAC that are much better but if you find it muddy, distorted and lacking drive compared to the Caiman, there is definitely something wrong with your units (besides the popping sounds).

 1. Could please post pictures of the damage done on the FUN?
 2. Could you also open it up and show what is inside (ACSS modules or others ...)?
 3. Could you check which opamp is inside?

 If you don't do either things I mention above, we really can't do anything to help you. It is just a waste of time bashing about a damaged product that you didn't get directly from Audio-gd and that seems to have been tampered with.

 ps: people at head-fi usually get suspicious of people raving about Beresford DACs. If you provide us with pictures as I suggested above, it will not only relieve people's minds (that you are not just bashing a product for the fun of it) but it will most importantly allow us to help you if we detect that something is wrong inside.


----------



## rosgr63

Not trying to upset anybody, Beresford may be getting a lot of bashing at Head-Fi but his products are not that bad.
 And he's got approval by Amarra which works well with his DAC's!

 As slim.a suggested set of photos to see what the problem is would be nice.


----------



## TheDuke990

Today I compared again the Fun with:
 - X-FI
 - aune Mini USB DAC
 - Arcam A90 + NAD C545BEE

 I can confirm that my Fun also sounds absolutely different to all the others.
 The others have more bass and bass impact or they have a veil in mids and highs. I don't know which presumption is correct by I can not believe that all the others sounds bad or wrong and only the Fun works proper. I changed also the sound signature settings (neutral -> soft 1 & 2) without a big change of bass.

 And now I have some doubts whether the Fun is such as good as a lot of people promise.

 After testing the headphone section I tested the Line out of the Fun and the difference between the Fun and my NAD C545BEE is marginal (Arcam A90 and Monitor Audio RS8). Sometimes I think I can hear more bass when listen to the NAD and in some cases the other way round. So no doubts listen to line out.

 But the doubts remain for the headphone section. Unfortunately my earth is still not delivered and I tested it with the installed OPA2134. I'm not sure if I can change it to my LME49720NA (used in aune) without doubts.

 I hope I get the earth next week and then I will start comparing again and when the results are the same the Fun goes back to UK .


----------



## tresperros

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi tresperros,

 The way you describe sonically the FUN is different from what everybody has done so before, that is why I assumed it was broken. If you hadn't open the unit to check that everything is fine inside, we can't help you at all. As I said earlier even something as small as an opamp, can do a lot of damage to the sound. At one point 2 years ago, I thought the left driver of my sennheiser hd-650 was broken until I realized that an opamp in the DAC section wasn't sitted properly.

 As far as sound quality is concerned, I am not saying that the Caiman can't sound better. However, the way you are describing (muddy, distortion in the highs, ...) doesn't fit the description of the FUN. Of course there are DAC that are much better but if you find it muddy, distorted and lacking drive compared to the Caiman, there is definitely something wrong with your units (besides the popping sounds).

 1. Could please post pictures of the damage done on the FUN?
 2. Could you also open it up and show what is inside (ACSS modules or others ...)?
 3. Could you check which opamp is inside?

 If you don't do either things I mention above, we really can't do anything to help you. It is just a waste of time bashing about a damaged product that you didn't get directly from Audio-gd and that seems to have been tampered with.

 ps: people at head-fi usually get suspicious of people raving about Beresford DACs. If you provide us with pictures as I suggested above, it will not only relieve people's minds (that you are not just bashing a product for the fun of it) but it will most importantly allow us to help you if we detect that something is wrong inside._

 

Hello again,
 Thank you very much for kind answer. I added photos, hope it helps. I must say, my knowledge about elecronics is close to 0. 
 I bought my unit from AmpCity. 
 I did it after reading this very forum (really appreciate especially yours great input). Same like yourself I noticed that my test/review is quite different than other users, and I stated that my unit could be broken.
 Please, AmpCity - any thoughts ?
 I was looking for something like FUN, DAC, with analog input and headphones amp. It fits into my system perfectly, needles to say, at the moment it sounds really bad comparing to Caiman for example.
 I am not related to Beresford in any way, even more, I wanted FUN, because Caiman has a flaw which in my kind of work (mixing/mastering) is a disqualification. (it's very quiet - about -60dB click which happens when I use DAW; not a problem for 'normal' music/movie users,). So I am looking for substitute for Caiman, and FUN seems like perfect solution, which is not at the moment.
 I really appreciate your help, please look into photos and tell me it's OK or not ? Again I am just user, not exactly know what's inside 'box', and I am not interested either, important to me is how it sounds.
 Like I said before I bought unit after couple of good reviews here, what I've heard was quite opposite experience. I presume my unit is faulty, and I stated this few times in my post.
 My opinion here, isn't absolutely about bashing, not at all, I am just very unhappy about SQ. I am not raving about Beresford either, please it's not what I meant. I just compared two devices face to face after reading peoples opinions that FUN is better then Caiman, but my unit isn't.
 And it's not a big time! It's not a small difference, it's massive, so I suspect unit is broken, plus (read my flaws, especially no.1 which is red card for unit IMO, could you tell me your unit has same issue?)
 I am gonna send link with this discussion to AmpCity, hope they help resolve it.
 Summing it up, seems like quality control really doesn't work well, it's rather a marketing/selling trick. (you mentioned, your unit hasn't got opamps installed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 all the best


----------



## tresperros




----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tresperros* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello again,
 Thank you very much for kind answer. I added photos, hope it helps. I must say, my knowledge about elecronics is close to 0. 
 I bought my unit from AmpCity. 
 I did it after reading this very forum (really appreciate especially yours great input). Same like yourself I noticed that my test/review is quite different than other users, and I stated that my unit could be broken.
 Please, AmpCity - any thoughts ?
 I was looking for something like FUN, DAC, with analog input and headphones amp. It fits into my system perfectly, needles to say, at the moment it sounds really bad comparing to Caiman for example.
 I am not related to Beresford in any way, even more, I wanted FUN, because Caiman has a flaw which in my kind of work (mixing/mastering) is a disqualification. (it's very quiet - about -60dB click which happens when I use DAW; not a problem for 'normal' music/movie users,). So I am looking for substitute for Caiman, and FUN seems like perfect solution, which is not at the moment.
 I really appreciate your help, please look into photos and tell me it's OK or not ? Again I am just user, not exactly know what's inside 'box', and I am not interested either, important to me is how it sounds.
 Like I said before I bought unit after couple of good reviews here, what I've heard was quite opposite experience. I presume my unit is faulty, and I stated this few times in my post.
 My opinion here, isn't absolutely about bashing, not at all, I am just very unhappy about SQ. I am not raving about Beresford either, please it's not what I meant. I just compared two devices face to face after reading peoples opinions that FUN is better then Caiman, but my unit isn't.
 And it's not a big time! It's not a small difference, it's massive, so I suspect unit is broken, plus (read my flaws, especially no.1 which is red card for unit IMO, could you tell me your unit has same issue?)
 I am gonna send link with this discussion to AmpCity, hope they help resolve it.
 Summing it up, seems like quality control really doesn't work well, it's rather a marketing/selling trick. (you mentioned, your unit hasn't got opamps installed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 all the best_

 

Hi tresperros,

 Thanks for posting those pictures so fast. As far as I can see, all the modules are sitting right in their spot. Nothing seems missing. The only weird thing I noticed is the transformer which looks different than my unit and the one shown in the Audio-gd website: http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/pro/FUN/Version%20A.jpg
 Both mine and the one in the website are covered with a top plate. Yours doesn't seem to be. I wonder if that makes any difference and what it means.

 So your case is very special: no I one that I know of has ever listened to the FUN before the 100 hours burn-in mark. I don't know if that makes any difference at all. I recommend that you let it burning-in for the week-end and see if there is any change. I have noticed improvements after 100+300 hours of burn-in but it didn't start horrible as you described from day one (100 hours).

 As for quality check, my case was specific, I told Kingwa that I already had opamps and since they take for ever to burn-in, I told him that I didn't need any. Since there was so many things to try on the FUN, I just didn't want to worry about burning-in opamps.

 Overall, I hope those guys at AmpCity can help you fix the problem. (While burn-in can help, I don't think it will solve your problem). 

 I just remember one think. Audio-gd gear is extremely sensitive to the quality of the power supply. It is better to plug the unit directly to the wall outlet than to use a poor or average power filter. Personally, the first time I listened to the Audio-gd ST3 I had pretty poor results. I was connecting it to a Belkin power filter. After emailing Kingwa, I changed the stock power cord to an olflex one (I was using on a powered subwoofer) and I plugged the unit directly to the wall outlet (i.e. without power filter) and I simply couldn't believe my ears. The unit was totally transformed. 

 I hope this help. If you have any news let us know.


----------



## Currawong

tresperros: You might have a ground-loop hum. If you have the ground connection through components in a loop, you often get a sound of some odd frequency such as you described continuously through the output. Is it possible to try power cables where you are that don't have the ground connected? As for the clicks, regular switches in the signal chain, as the front panel switches are, simply cause that. The only solution may to be to turn the volume to zero before changing settings. However, if something isn't working as you think it should, contact Audio-gd and ask them about it. That's my suggestion beyond the above.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rosgr63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not trying to upset anybody, Beresford may be getting a lot of bashing at Head-Fi but his products are not that bad.
 And he's got approval by Amarra which works well with his DAC's_

 

Any DAC that uses one of the common USB input receiver chips will work with Amarra. That Sonic Studios have confirmed this doesn't say anything. All the Audio-gd gear will work with it as well, and I don't need to have Sonic Studios tell me that to know it for the above reason. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But the doubts remain for the headphone section. Unfortunately my earth is still not delivered and I tested it with the installed OPA2134. I'm not sure if I can change it to my LME49720NA (used in aune) without doubts._

 

The LME49720NA will work in the Fun, as will most common dual-channel OPAMPs. It'll be a lot better than the OPA2134 and is, IMO, slightly inferior to the Earth in resolution, but very similar-sounding. If two components are very tonally similar it can be very hard to tell them apart without spending some time listening I've found. NAD makes good gear, so your comments aren't a surprise.


----------



## tresperros

Great, thank you!
 I've sent email to AmpCity, and hope they react. I am gonna plug it directly into socket, but I need to add one thing. My setup isn't just amp and pc/source, speakers. I have about 30 units (audio gear) in my room. I know those all gears add 'something' to my power, I used to have hum in monitors(60/120/240), now it's gone but not completely.
 Anyway Caiman was plugged into same plug as FUN, so maybe the latter is more touchy, I will give it a try. Still I doubt it will resolve my issues (1 and 2, my first post). At the moment I think about 2 options, call AmCity and ask them for new unit, or just send it back them and keep looking for DAC somewhere else.
 I need confirmation that others users got same issues like mine (again 1 and 2)
 Can other folks check it properly and chime in ?


----------



## TheDuke990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LME49720NA will work in the Fun, as will most common dual-channel OPAMPs. It'll be a lot better than the OPA2134 and is, IMO, slightly inferior to the Earth in resolution, but very similar-sounding. If two components are very tonally similar it can be very hard to tell them apart without spending some time listening I've found. NAD makes good gear, so your comments aren't a surprise._

 

Thank you. Then I will give him a try.
 Also no doubts for dc offset or ?


----------



## tresperros

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_tresperros: You might have a ground-loop hum. If you have the ground connection through components in a loop, you often get a sound of some odd frequency such as you described continuously through the output. Is it possible to try power cables where you are that don't have the ground connected? As for the clicks, regular switches in the signal chain, as the front panel switches are, simply cause that. The only solution may to be to turn the volume to zero before changing settings. However, if something isn't working as you think it should, contact Audio-gd and ask them about it. That's my suggestion beyond the above.........._

 

Thank you for input. I have a ground issue in my system (many units, balanced, unbalanced outs and ins, connected correctly to the one wall plug). I know about it, but it's nothing I can do. I checked every unit one by one, and it's quite funny how one or 2 units doesn't add any noise, where 4-5 add a hair, and 10 a something and 30 a bit more ...
 I'd be very happy if someone here could advice me some solution. I was thinking about power conditioner but I was told, that in UK power is very good, and it's no need to buy it. Even quite opposite, units which doesn't cost fortune degrade signal! So I skipped that option. 
 I have hum through my power amp. I can avoid it completely ( ok, there's is sth, but only noticeable when fit your ear into horn
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, and when all door and windows are closed) running toslink to Caiman, and then use it's VARIABLE analog outs directly to power amp ins. No hum
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, Apparently, there's no hum either from SRC via AES/EBU-spdif/rca (electrical connections)
 Yesterday when I plugged FUN LINE out to SRC analog ins I had a hum. (which disappeared with mentioned above connection; maybe Caiman's got PS without ground ? I don't know but it worked.
 I will try what you suggested (no middle pin?) and let you know what's improved or not.
 As far as I can live with clicks ( not really nice, but can survive), mentioned HPF'ed 10 kHz filter on monitor outputs when listening on phones is unacceptable.
 That's I would like to establish is it my unit, or everyone has it.
 I need to stress that my room is very well acoustically treated with very low noise, so I can spot very little things (for someone else it could be small, where for me it's not.....it's a 'job's perverse' to being extremely touchy about little things within audio.


----------



## Currawong

Wow, a gear nut, you'll fit right in here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds like you've answered your own question though, especially if the hum goes when you've only got the Fun and other items you're using with it plugged in. 

 As for good power in the UK, who told you that? Who knows where you are what is plugged in that might have some effect. I'd imagine that you're very familiar with at least one local hi-fi store that might lend you some or other power filter or conditioner to try at some stage. Switching off stuff you're not using would help a lot though.


----------



## tresperros

Currawong,
 Cheers, I plugged FUN into socket avoiding ground pin.
 Things got better
 Nasty distortions, and unbalanced sound gone now

 I did proper testing this time
 One info about testing, Comparing 2 sources when one has 1 dB difference in volume can be described ( louder one) as fuller, wider, with more top and low end, as we know - louder is perceived as better (Fletcher–Munson curves)
 it's crucial to match levels very precisely !
 0.1 dB, but I don't have a analog meter so precise, I got standard SPL meter, which is OK, you can see 0.3 dB easy.

 What I did this time, I matched levels very precisely, to discern any dB differences. 
 Very important info, LINE IN in FUN has 2.5 dB louder signal then digital inputs (it could be Caiman's outs have more mV, I don't know, but I tested FUN line in/out and there's s 2.5 dB bump on Line in/analog in.
 Hence comparing just converters is very difficult at this stage.
 I'll do that as soon as my mixer be back, so very precise DAC comparison will be made
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Worst sounding combination DAC/head pre is SRC 2496,
 sadly FUN second position from the end, then RME and Caiman.
 There's no fair comparing FUN to Caiman headphones out.
 I didn't check it on monitors, it's more difficult then just swapping jack with headphones.
 The difference between FUN and RME (honestly I didn't think before tests RME will be involved in test, because it's completely different gear then FUN or Caiman, but it has quite good headphones amp (I noticed it by accident it sounds surprisingly good) is in details. RME has much more details in midrange, transients are represented in better way (less distorted) , general balance is ok (both units)
 I can describe FUN at the moment (headphones out) as veiled and muddy.
 Music lacks definition, and information is lost, as well as background details aren't clearly pronounceable like in Caiman.
 It's better, but it's still far away behind Caiman.
 It hasn't got top neither low end, lack of definition and details give blurry and veiled sound, when Caiman's every note is clear, fast, and without any distortions on transients.
 I just received a kind and supportive email from AmpCity, and they stated that FUN was burned for 100h, and then another 48, plus issue with LINE out on monitors (HPF filter 10kHz) was reported with other users. This is very important info if other users could test their units and let us know.
 Unfortunately, in my setup such a flaw is a big no no, so if it exist in all units, I need to look for other DAC.
 AmpCity told me that I need another 200h for burning in, I am maybe a bit impatience testing it know, but on the other hand it's good to know how much burning-in change the sound.
 I plugged FUN and fed it with pink noise ( don't know headphone or monitors must be plugged, so if someone know, let me know please). I am gonna leave it for a week, and switch off couple times.

 Summing up, at this stage, FUN is a bit behind RME headphone out, I will updae you next weekend or later after burning procedure. I am very curious myself how it could evolve from cheap sounding unit at the moment to unit which beats Caiman. Possible, so let's wait. 
 On other hand, I invite any Londoners who want to make tests with me at my studio, I make a nice tea
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 have a nice day, so far is beautiful outside


----------



## slim.a

@ tresperros: thanks for keeping us updated. We will wait for you final comments after a week of burn-in. 
 Also according to Kingwa, you don't need to connect it to headphones during the burn-in period, but I do it anyway ... just to be on the safe side.

 At the mean time, if you can borrow a good power filter or an aftermarket power cord from a local dealer or a friend, I really encourage you to do so. It will make more difference on the sound than trying out different DACs. The more electronic equipment you have in your house, the more polluted the mains get. For the best sound quality and for critical listening, I personally only plug the DAC and the headamp on my main Bada power filter, I plug the notebook on a separate mains filter and I am also using a parallel filter (Essential Audio Noise Eater) and aftermarket power cords.

 Before treating the mains, I used to find big differences between the sound quality at night and during the day. Now the sound is much better (with all equipment and at all times) and there are less differences between daytime and late night listening.

 As I have mentioned it in the review, the Audio-gd FUN is very sensitive to the quality of the mains. The Purepiper DAC A-1 that I have reviewed a few weeks ago (see here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/rev...et-dac-476557/) is a lot less sensitive to the power supply. With poor power supply and regular power cords, the Purepiper can sound better than the Audio-gd FUN. With a good power filter and power cord, the FUN is better.


----------



## dragonfyra

While we're on the subject, anymore suggestions for decent power filtering units, like the Bada that slim uses? (found one for 38euros on a site)

 Anyone tried the G&W ones like the G&W TW-08D?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dragonfyra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While we're on the subject, anymore suggestions for decent power filtering units, like the Bada that slim uses? (found one for 38euros on a site)

 Anyone tried the G&W ones like the G&W TW-08D?_

 

Where did you find the BADA LB-5600 at 38euros? I would like to buy a second one from that site 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, I just looked at the G&W TW-08D and it looks terrific!


----------



## ulyses

That beresford dac/amp looks interesting. I searched and couldn't find much about it in head-fi. But many other sites recommend it. Why headfiers ignore this budget dac/amp combo?


----------



## Currawong

ulyses: Beresford himself was posting under a bunch of aliases promoting his own gear on here, so every time anyone posts anything positive about his gear, they get accused of being him. As well, he basically re-boxes a cheap Chinese DAC/amp as his own.

 By the way, to "burn in" the Fun, just leave it switched on for a couple of weeks. It doesn't need to be playing music. It changes noticeably in this time. The DAC OPAMP makes a big difference as well.


----------



## superchan

Quote:


 
 By the way, to "burn in" the Fun, just leave it switched on for a couple of weeks. It doesn't need to be playing music. It changes noticeably in this time. The DAC OPAMP makes a big difference as well. 
 

great tip
 i replaced the OPA module for a day
 how much burn in time I need to heard some changing ??


----------



## ulyses

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ulyses: Beresford himself was posting under a bunch of aliases promoting his own gear on here, so every time anyone posts anything positive about his gear, they get accused of being him. As well, he basically re-boxes a cheap Chinese DAC/amp as his own._

 

My God. That's really ugly.


----------



## sinner6

I hadn't heard this previously, but will admit these posts are making my spidey sense tingle.


----------



## dragonfyra

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you find the BADA LB-5600 at 38euros? I would like to buy a second one from that site 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 BTW, I just looked at the G&W TW-08D and it looks terrific!_

 

Ack, LB-5600 was it? I think I was looking at a 3300 or something like that.
 the 5600 is $115US (not including shipping from Hong Kong), 5500 is $110US.
 Found on cattylink.com

 That GW08D is like almost $300US, found on kingsound headphone shop ã€Š Headphone.com.hk ã€‹é¦™æ¸¯é‡‘è²è€³ç*’å°ˆé–€åº— - éšè²è€³æ©Ÿæ¬¾å¼è‡³å¤šè‡³é½Šä¸¦æä¾›è©¦è½


----------



## muad

Quote:


 I hadn't heard this previously, but will admit these posts are making my spidey sense tingle. 
 

Funny, I get a similar feeling


----------



## tresperros

I hope that after reading my posts ( and my ugly 'English') I am out of suspicion
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 BTW there's my website - home - mixing and mastering online
 I Am Polish, My name is Filip, nice to meet you 'spiders'
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 I am 38 years old, been involved in music for over 15 years.
 My tests here are based on my 'golden ears', nothing else,
 no mojo, spider senses, or any magic
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 plus I do test properly, at first level matching sources using SPL meter

 how many of you did it properly ???
 Do you know how much is 1dB in loudness difference ??
 please look here and read about why louder music seems better
Fletcherâ€“Munson curves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 there's a lot of info on net about it, do research please
 I will do another tests next weekend and I will be honest
 I want best performing device, I will trust my ears only

 be with me.....'spiders' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and one more, I am not here for bashing, I think that I can leave here my honest opinion for other users,
 I hope FUN will stand up against Caiman or RME next weekend
 If not, I will try maybe dac19, or other DAC reviewed here,
 because spending 2000 US$ for pro DAC is not justified IMO,
 after hearing Caiman, I am sure that you can have very good DAC within reasonable budget,
 One more thing for 'spiders' I grabbed FUN, because my Caiman is going back to seller/maker. It has issue (I mentioned this in my posts, already) which makes it useless in my studio/setup. It doesn't do any harm for 'normal' users who listen to music/movies. Google Caiman+audio click.
 I hope it helped

 have a nice day lads


----------



## rosgr63

Hello Filip, nice to have you onboard.
 Enjoy Head-Fi


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tresperros* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope that after reading my posts ( and my ugly 'English') I am out of suspicion
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 BTW there's my website - home - mixing and mastering online
 I Am Polish, My name is Filip, nice to meet you 'spiders'
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 I am 38 years old, been involved in music for over 15 years.
 My tests here are based on my 'golden ears', nothing else,
 no mojo, spider senses, or any magic
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 plus I do test properly, at first level matching sources using SPL meter

 how many of you did it properly ???
 Do you know how much is 1dB in loudness difference ??
 please look here and read about why louder music seems better
Fletcherâ€“Munson curves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 there's a lot of info on net about it, do research please
 I will do another tests next weekend and I will be honest
 I want best performing device, I will trust my ears only

 be with me.....'spiders' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and one more, I am not here for bashing, I think that I can leave here my honest opinion for other users,
 I hope FUN will stand up against Caiman or RME next weekend
 If not, I will try maybe dac19, or other DAC reviewed here,
 because spending 2000 US$ for pro DAC is not justified IMO,
 after hearing Caiman, I am sure that you can have very good DAC within reasonable budget,
 One more thing for 'spiders' I grabbed FUN, because my Caiman is going back to seller/maker. It has issue (I mentioned this in my posts, already) which makes it useless in my studio/setup. It doesn't do any harm for 'normal' users who listen to music/movies. Google Caiman+audio click.
 I hope it helped

 have a nice day lads_

 

Hi Filip,

 What you said about about level matching components is very intersting. When 2 components are very close sounding I use RMAA to check the output level of the DACs. That is how I discovered for example that on the same DAC (the DAC19mk3) the PMD100 applied 1db of reduction while the DF1704 did not. I confirmed that later by reading the specs of the PMD100.

 However, when I am reviewing equipment I do not only listen at a specific matched level. I also like to try components at low volumes and high volumes. Sometimes, when testing a DAC, it can sound right/tolerable at a certain volume and horrible as soon as you turn up the volume.
 A good DAC, such as the audio-gd DAC19 has a great resolution/clarity of message at low listening volumes and doesn't turn acid when played at high volumes.
 Also, when level matched with other DACs (through RMAA), it still appeared subjectively as being more dynamic and louder in the loud passages.
 So while I understand that it is important to level match equipment, it is also intersting to do long term listening to see if other factors (such listening fatigue, irritation, bad clarity at low levels, ...) do show up. 
 A good DAC is also supposed to make you do less efforts while listening. If you focus hard enough you can recognize voices even on a crappy telephone. However, you would have made a lot of efforts to attain that goal. The better the DAC, the less you have to strain yourself to hear details. Of course, some DACs over do it and throw details at your face so that is a coloration by itself.

 Overall, if you are looking to a significant upgrade (in all areas) over the Caiman you have, I don't believe you will find it in the FUN price range (but you don't need to go crazy at the same time). 
 In my personal experience, the only DAC that made a significant improvement (on all areas) over lesser DACs was the dac19mk3. Also, it hold itself surprisingly well compared to far more expensive DACs. Given the costs of parts alone, that DAC was a true bargain at $500.
 So to sum up, if you are looking for a really significant upgrade (on all areas) to your former DACs you should jump righ to the dac19 in the audio-gd line or far more expensive DACs by other makers. If you keep trying DACs in the FUN price range, you might end with shift in tonal changes that you won't like and not enough improvements in other areas.


----------



## tresperros

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Filip,

 What you said about about level matching components is very intersting. When 2 components are very close sounding I use RMAA to check the output level of the DACs. That is how I discovered for example that on the same DAC (the DAC19mk3) the PMD100 applied 1db of reduction while the DF1704 did not. I confirmed that later by reading the specs of the PMD100.

 However, when I am reviewing equipment I do not only listen at a specific matched level. I also like to try components at low volumes and high volumes. Sometimes, when testing a DAC, it can sound right/tolerable at a certain volume and horrible as soon as you turn up the volume.
 A good DAC, such as the audio-gd DAC19 has a great resolution/clarity of message at low listening volumes and doesn't turn acid when played at high volumes.
 Also, when level matched with other DACs (through RMAA), it still appeared subjectively as being more dynamic and louder in the loud passages.
 So while I understand that it is important to level match equipment, it is also intersting to do long term listening to see if other factors (such listening fatigue, irritation, bad clarity at low levels, ...) do show up. 
 A good DAC is also supposed to make you do less efforts while listening. If you focus hard enough you can recognize voices even on a crappy telephone. However, you would have made a lot of efforts to attain that goal. The better the DAC, the less you have to strain yourself to hear details. Of course, some DACs over do it and throw details at your face so that is a coloration by itself.

 Overall, if you are looking to a significant upgrade (in all areas) over the Caiman you have, I don't believe you will find it in the FUN price range (but you don't need to go crazy at the same time). 
 In my personal experience, the only DAC that made a significant improvement (on all areas) over lesser DACs was the dac19mk3. Also, it hold itself surprisingly well compared to far more expensive DACs. Given the costs of parts alone, that DAC was a true bargain at $500.
 So to sum up, if you are looking for a really significant upgrade (on all areas) to your former DACs you should jump righ to the dac19 in the audio-gd line or far more expensive DACs by other makers. If you keep trying DACs in the FUN price range, you might end with shift in tonal changes that you won't like and not enough improvements in other areas._

 

Very well said sir!
 I agree with you in almost all areas and I really appreciate your big effort and great job on this very forum.
 My opinion about testing audio equipment is very simple - use your ears !
 there's so many things that could bias your perception, (coffee, rainy day, morning, evening, ....name it), but at the end of the day, forget about all spec. data, technical details, voo-doo, MoJo stuff and listen to the music.
 I must say that IMO level matching devices (during tests) with RMAA leads to incorrect outcome. You need to have an SPL meter to level match 'real' output of device( air movement). After this you can do tests. Music in a very very short description is a movement of the air, RMAA test doesn't check it, hence, test is incorrect from musical/listener point, but obviously it can tell you something about EQ curve.
 On other hand it's very interesting what you said about checking different gain/level ( I do it as well, but to give honest opinion about REAL difference is very difficult). Very interesting is what you mentioned about time factor, fatigue, etc, good point. On another hand everyone has different ears, and percept in a different way.

 I really thank you for your wise recommendation, I agree with you I need to look somewhere else. I targeted FUN after reading reviews mostly here. 
 I've read that FUN over-perform Caiman, which I have so I grabbed it.
 I need device which is not just a DAC, I have already a few quite good converters (RME, SRC2496, EGO sys WAMIRACK24 and Caiman).
 Caiman must go, which is very sad, because it's great DAC. 
 One info about Beresford service- very cool, I was offered a full money refund after over 3 months, so as a client I am very satisfied.
 I want device which is preamplifier (actually passive attenuator will do), DAC and headphone amp. I know I am greedy, but I wasn't before grabbing Caiman.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I discovered by accident that I don't have to spend fortune to have great quality converter, plus for free preamp and hp amp! 
 So, I want
 preamp (passive att) 
 DAC
 HP amp
 FUN has it all, plus it's got ANALOG IN, which is what I was after.
 I am very happy to pay more $$ for better quality, but when I consider dac19 (500UK pounds, 750 U$) plus separate preamp (300-400U$), cables (100U$ min)is 1200 U$/800 UK. Money is one factor, currently Caiman cost me 200UK plus delivery (10?). 4x more, it's simply out of my budget at the moment. I can afford to spend max 750 U$/500UK max.
 If Kingwa can arm DAC19 with headphone and pre for extra 150 US, that could be my shot!
 I am very money orientated
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, when I have to spend 4x more money.
 With my whole honesty, I am willing to pay 50-200 % more ( to upgrade my Caiman), but not 400%.

 Anyway, many many thanks.
 Just for curiosity I will test FUN again after burning period.
 I contacted AmpCity, and they confirm other users mentioned issue with LINE OUT/ and signal on monitors. I asked them to establish this with constructor.
 I would really appreciate if you could check it. 
 This flaw means FUN can't stay at my place. I really need to confirm it.
 Yes or not, I will test it with my other units for you to have another opinion to consider.
 I will test DAC only, and this will be very precise test, including blind tests and then double blind (wife needed
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone very welcome to advice me on DAC/PRE !

 nice day


----------



## tresperros

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rosgr63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Filip, nice to have you onboard.
 Enjoy Head-Fi_

 

thank you!


----------



## slim.a

@ tresperros: if you get the DAC19DF+ACSS cables+C2, it will cost you $760 + shipping ...
 Another product that might be interesting for you is the Music Hall - DAC 25.2. It is seriously built and has had good reviews (I am not sure if it has preamp outs though).
 Maybe you can also look for a used Benchmark DAC1. 
 Sorry that I don't have any more suggestions but when looking for a new DAC I have focused my research on DACs only since I prefer the flexibility of having separate components. 

 As for the issue you mentioned (LINE OUT/ and signal on monitors), I had never noticed ... until today. By the turning the volume of my powered speakers all the way up, I was able to hear a faint high frequency noise (or music leaking to be more precise). When the volume is set to normal listening levels, I wasn't able to hear anything. I guess it could be very problematic for someone connecting the FUN to sensitive power monitors.


----------



## TheDuke990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ tresperros: if you get the DAC19DF+ACSS cables+C2, it will cost you $760 + shipping ..._

 

Yes but not for European guys like me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 760$ + shipping + duty + VAT.

 When you purchase this in UK (ampcity) you have to pay round about 850€ ! It is more than you have to pay in USA.
 When I have to pay only the stuff + shipping in $ then I had already ordered the DAC19 and C2 in USA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Currawong

You might mention this issue to Kingwa. I'm sure it's only a small wiring change to completely shut off the line out when using headphones.


----------



## muad

Yeah, I personally don't have any of the issues that tresperros has. I don't use a power cleaner or anything of that sort. Just a $30 power bar... Don't write the audio-gd fun off too quickly.... I think an RMA would fix your problem, and from what I have read, audio-gd takes good care of it's customers.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

I ordered FUN last Wednesday, and just took receipt of it just now. Swapped out my Compass, and replaced with the default Op-Amp with the Earth HDAM from the Compass. I noticed that my unit is similar to tresperrros in that the Power transformer had no metal plate on top of it. Other than that, everything else is working fine. The default jumper setting on the DA1852 is already at the second position, meaning it is closer to the front of the unit. 

 One thing I noticed after switching it on is that since I am using the DAC out, pressing the Line Out button in for headphone output doesn't switch off the signal output to the external speakers. What I do get is now signals coming from both the DAC Out and the headphone out. I was under the impression that the Line Out button has a similar function to the old Compass, where pressing the Super button in will output signals to the external speakers and switch off the headphone output and vice versa. Is that how the FUN supposedly wired? It's not an issue for me, just find it odd that it didn't retain that function from the Compass. 

 I suppose I could post some impressions later in comparison with the Compass. (Maybe there are others who might like an idea of the difference between the two.)

 Anyway, first impressions (Low gain setting) - Sound very balanced on the HD600. A bit veiled on the HD800 compared to when using the Compass. 

 I'm still waiting for the DAC19DSP and C-2 to arrive tomorrow.

 Update: I think there won't be any comparison with the Compass and Fun after all. After 16 hours of burnin with the Isotek burnin disc, the Fun started showing a little bit more of its SQ now. As slim.a has stated earlier in his excellent review, the Fun is already way ahead of the Compass.


----------



## TheDuke990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I personally don't have any of the issues that tresperros has. I don't use a power cleaner or anything of that sort. Just a $30 power bar... Don't write the audio-gd fun off too quickly.... I think an RMA would fix your problem, and from what I have read, audio-gd takes good care of it's customers._

 

When you plug in a headphone and press the button "Line out" (deactivate line out) you can't hear the music really really quite at the line out in your speakers ? Okay it is really quite but noticable.

 Maybe they have a quality problem !? My Fun was delivered with a broken OPA 2134.
 Fortunately I had an OPA2134 left from my aune.

 @rhythmic_impulse: same hear. Push the line out button deactivates only the line out but not the DAC out.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe they have a quality problem !? My Fun was delivered with a broken OPA 2134 (*slim.a wrote that his Fun was delivered with a OPA)*._

 

Sorry to hear that your unit came with a broken OPA 2134.
 However what you stated is not exactly what I said. My case was specific, I asked not to have an OPA since I already had many of them. So no quality problem on my end. 
 BTW, I brought up the subject of the opamp because in some cases (during shipping) the opamps (such as the earth hdam) can get loose. Since he didn't know if and what opamp he had, I urged tresperros to look inside his unit.
 So far, I have bought 6 audio-gd units (not counting the fun) and haven't had any reliability/quality check probelm with those units.


----------



## littletree76

There are line output and DAC output on back panel. Output gain stage come after the DAC stage for line output as well as headphone output. The line out button on front panel multiplex the output gain stage between line output and headphone output. Thus the DAC output should not be affected by the line out button as well as volume control. It is a fixed level output directly from DAC stage.

 If you don't want to hear any sound from your speaker while using headphone, simply transfer output connections from DAC output to line output (my FUN works fine with this configuration). Furthermore you can customize output sound signature with different modules in output gain stage (default is rather neutral diamond gain module).

 Correct me if I am wrong (did not verify with DAC output on my FUN).


----------



## TheDuke990

@slim.a: sorry for the misunderstanding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I changed my post.

 Hint: I wrote an email to kingwa regarding the problem with the line out (not DAC output) -> music is quite noticable when the button is not pushed in.


----------



## tresperros

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@slim.a: sorry for the misunderstanding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I changed my post.

 Hint: I wrote an email to kingwa regarding the problem with the line out (not DAC output) -> music is quite noticable when the button is not pushed in._

 

I have power amp, no way to turn signal down (as in power speakers)
 I can hear very well music when I shouldn't. It's HPF about 10 kHz ( just high frequency). For sure it's wrong, line out should mute completely.


----------



## Mad Max

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tresperros* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have power amp, no way to turn signal down (as in power speakers)
 I can hear very well music when I shouldn't. It's HPF about 10 kHz ( just high frequency). For sure it's wrong, line out should mute completely._

 

It's the same with the Compass sometimes.


----------



## Currawong

I had the same problem even on fairly expensive integrated amps I've owned over the years with the inputs.


----------



## TheDuke990

I have an reply from Kingwa. I hope it is okay to post his email answer.

_Dear Mike,
 The line out has slight output while you choice headphone and the volume is turn a bit loud ,this is normal, because the line output and headphone output are from same amp but through a relay to choice which output is active.
 this is the high frequency signal through the relay . But the relay has around -70DB isolation ,If the headphone output is enough loud, and your power amp has enough gain, you can hear a little high frequency sound from your speakers,
 About the bass, I think you are better send back to CityAmp to check if normal.
 Kingwa_

 I will recheck my Fun on Wednesday or Thursday after additonal 100 - 130h of burn in and tell you my experiences afterwards.


----------



## movi

so i guess i should give up on trying to find one of these used?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had the same problem even on fairly expensive integrated amps I've owned over the years with the inputs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My guess is that some expensive/high-end gear focus more on short signal paths and sound quality than on convenience. I used to find it curious to read about very expensive preamps that don't come with a remote control... Now it doesn't surprise anymore as I understand that some people are willing to sacrifice convenience for a slight increase in performance (or a drop in price if you look at the problem from another angle).


----------



## tresperros

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have an reply from Kingwa. I hope it is okay to post his email answer.

Dear Mike,
 The line out has slight output while you choice headphone and the volume is turn a bit loud ,this is normal, because the line output and headphone output are from same amp but through a relay to choice which output is active.
 this is the high frequency signal through the relay . But the relay has around -70DB isolation ,If the headphone output is enough loud, and your power amp has enough gain, you can hear a little high frequency sound from your speakers,
 About the bass, I think you are better send back to CityAmp to check if normal.
 Kingwa

 I will recheck my Fun on Wednesday or Thursday after additonal 100 - 130h of burn in and tell you my experiences afterwards._

 





 well, it's not normal to me at all....
 it's just a construction/design flaw. Line out should be muted to -120 dB at least, in short, you shouldn't hear a thing on speakers. When designer says it's 'normal', my spider senses are off, by human logic tells me - 'hold on '. Next thing designer tells you that 3dB difference between left and right channel, is 'normal' too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and all you need is move close to right speaker to have a balance
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 sorry, but it's not proffessional


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tresperros* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




 well, it's not normal to me at all....
 it's just a construction/design flaw. Line out should be muted to -120 dB at least, in short, you shouldn't hear a thing on speakers. When designer says it's 'normal', my spider senses are off, by human logic tells me - 'hold on '. Next thing designer tells you that 3dB difference between left and right channel, is 'normal' too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and all you need is move close to right speaker to have a balance
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 sorry, but it's not proffessional_

 

tresperros, 

 When buying any audio equipment there are compromises being made in order to keep the price/performance ration acceptable for users.

 The FUN wasn't designed for the Pro community but rather for the consumer. So it might not have all the features you are used to.

 The DAC out and the headphone/preamp circuit are isolated. So if you want no leakage of sounds, just connect your amp to the DAC out.
 The reason Kingwa uses the headphone amp section for the preamp output is for increasing the sound quality. In my experience with the unit, I have noticed that the preamp out was superior to the DAC out (when volume level are matched). So the preamp out (the way it is set now) is targeted to give a boost in performance in comparison with the DAC out.
 Kingwa didn't develop the FUN to be used in studios. If you want very specific features (that are not sound related), you are probably better off with a "pro" DAC such as those made by EMU, RME, ... You will have plenty of connectivity options and different volume knobs for different sections. 

 What Kingwa did was a design choice and not a sign of poor design. When I see that some $5000 preamp (which sole function is to control the volume) doesn't come with a remote control, I don't start bashing about that particular product. The designer made a design choice (for cost or performance reasons) and I can either accept it or look for another preamp.

 If you look at Audio-gd's higher end models, you will see that they are on par with the very best companies in terms of technologies being used. However, for the lower end products they have to make compromises: if they had done what you wanted, they would have either ended up with a less performing product (if the price remained constant) or with a far more complex and expensive product (if the performance remained constant).

 Personally, I think the way the FUN is a good compromise for the majority of head-fiers. I don't say it is perfect, but at this very low price, you can't have a fully discrete amp, with current gain technology, mutliple digital inputs, ... and every functionality a pro (opamp based) product has.

 If this product doesn't fit your needs and expectations, I am pretty sure Audio-gd or your retailer will accept it back. However, it is unfair to say it is not professional just because it doesn't meet your specific requirements.


----------



## TheDuke990

Additional news from Kingwa 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (really fast replies; same by ampcity -> very good customer service).

_Dear Mike,
 The FUN not as other same price rang gears, it is applied ACSS technology which is much neutral sound flavors.
 It not emphasize any area, so maybe you don't have any excite with it while you first listen to it.
 It just like a pure water, not Coca Cola.
 And I advice you let it burn in extra 200-300 hours, don't need play music, only power on can burn in whole gear except USB parts.
 And the DAC output OPA is OPA2134, it is not emphasize bass, if you want more bass, the OPA2064 or our EARTH can a little more bass.
 Kingwa_


----------



## tresperros

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_tresperros, 

 When buying any audio equipment there are compromises being made in order to keep the price/performance ration acceptable for users.

 The FUN wasn't designed for the Pro community but rather for the consumer. So it might not have all the features you are used to.

 The DAC out and the headphone/preamp circuit are isolated. So if you want no leakage of sounds, just connect your amp to the DAC out.
 The reason Kingwa uses the headphone amp section for the preamp output is for increasing the sound quality. In my experience with the unit, I have noticed that the preamp out was superior to the DAC out (when volume level are matched). So the preamp out (the way it is set now) is targeted to give a boost in performance in comparison with the DAC out.
 Kingwa didn't develop the FUN to be used in studios. If you want very specific features (that are not sound related), you are probably better off with a "pro" DAC such as those made by EMU, RME, ... You will have plenty of connectivity options and different volume knobs for different sections. 

 What Kingwa did was a design choice and not a sign of poor design. When I see that some $5000 preamp (which sole function is to control the volume) doesn't come with a remote control, I don't start bashing about that particular product. The designer made a design choice (for cost or performance reasons) and I can either accept it or look for another preamp.

 If you look at Audio-gd's higher end models, you will see that they are on par with the very best companies in terms of technologies being used. However, for the lower end products they have to make compromises: if they had done what you wanted, they would have either ended up with a less performing product (if the price remained constant) or with a far more complex and expensive product (if the performance remained constant).

 Personally, I think the way the FUN is a good compromise for the majority of head-fiers. I don't say it is perfect, but at this very low price, you can't have a fully discrete amp, with current gain technology, mutliple digital inputs, ... and every functionality a pro (opamp based) product has.

 If this product doesn't fit your needs and expectations, I am pretty sure Audio-gd or your retailer will accept it back. However, it is unfair to say it is not professional just because it doesn't meet your specific requirements._

 

HI there,
 Slim.a I have a great respect to what you do in here. I really appreciate your input on this forum, hard work and effort, but I disagree with your opinion, which is a little 'biased'.
 It's good when clients can have a such great customer service, which I can see Audio Gd has. Big thumbs up for that!
 Anyway their product FUN has a bad design. (please don't advice me to plug something in or out, or maybe, I should switch of my power amp, every time I want to listen on phones and don't want hear music form monitors. it's hilarious)
 I am here same like most of you to find a best product to fit my needs.
 And I have a right to give my opinion as anyone else.
 I was looking for something within Caiman Beresford budget (I am happy to pay more, for SQ and functionality)
 This not true you write about studio/home functionality. The properly designed product will fit in both places.
 As i wrote before few times already, I read all posts about FUN ob this forum, and after great reviews made a purchase.
 I think if my opinion is different then others, it should be here, so people can see both side of a coin.
 Summing it up, I said it's not professional, meaning, suggesting that flaw within design is OK.
 I promise to do another FUN test next weekend. I am curious how it will change the sound. Maybe it will play so well, I will try to keep it (if mentioned above problem could be resolved by designer).
 I don't know.
 So far I can see some 'bias', and I don't know about your relation with Audio GD. I am quite aware about marketing on internet forums.
 I m glad you found AUDIO GD products great, good to you, but being just potential buyer, I want to see thorough tests, with cons too, not only pros.
 Again, I am not related to Beresford company, or any other except my own (home - mixing and mastering online), I am not here to discriminate one product against the other. However after my precise tests, FUN looks a bit different to me then before a purchase and reading your opinions.
 At the end of the day, we all want best product!

 all the best


----------



## tresperros

one more thing,
 I welcome anybody to pop in my studio and do some tests with me.
 I am open minded, to find out I was/am wrong somewhere.
 Bring your DACs with you if you want, I will make a great Earl grey with lemon
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I live in London, SE21, 12 minutes trip from Victoria station.
 We can even arrange some bigger tests, like few different DACs all together....


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tresperros* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far I can see some 'bias', and I don't know about your relation with Audio GD. I am quite aware about marketing on internet forums.
 I m glad you found AUDIO GD products great, good to you, but being just potential buyer, I want to see thorough tests, with cons too, not only pros.
 Again, I am not related to Beresford company, or any other except my own (home - mixing and mastering online), I am not here to discriminate one product against the other. However after my precise tests, FUN looks a bit different to me then before a purchase and reading your opinions.
 At the end of the day, we all want best product!

 all the best_

 

The last part of your post is pretty insulting. After only 16 posts on head-fi most of them saying the Caiman is so much better than the FUN you are accusing me of being biased?

 If you had taken the time to look at my profile you would have realized that I have written a lot of reviews about different products:

 If you look at my posts, most of them were done on the usb to spdif shoot out where I am stating that the hiface is better than the other converters. So I am biased towards m2tech?

 I have also written 2 articles about Artisan Silver Cables and I am preparing a third one. So am I biased towards Artisan Silver Cables?

 I have also been the first to try a write a full length review of the Purepiper DAC A-1. I have recommended that units to a few headfiers who asked by PM and I have also recommended it in a few threads. I am also currently in contact with Purepiper to try a few mods on the DAC A-1 to improve its performance. So am I working with Purepiper also?

 My findings about audio-gd's products and other products as well have been confirmed by many people here on head-fi. So it is pretty insulting to say that I am biased because of some relationship.
 You can accuse me of being a fan of audio-gd and I would agree. From the first day, Kingwa has always answered all my questions and given me good advices. He never pushed me to buy more expensive stuff when I asked him about comparisons. So yes, I admit that I am a fan and that I have respect for that company.

 As for your search for the "best product", any experienced head-fier will tell you that buying audio-gear is a bunch of compromises (except if you are shopping ultra expensive high end audio). So what I told you wasn't that the FUN was perfect, I told you that it was targeted for a specific audience and usage. If you don't understand that, then you will always be an unsatisfied customer.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tresperros* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_one more thing,
 I welcome anybody to pop in my studio and do some tests with me.
 I am open minded, to find out I was/am wrong somewhere.
 Bring your DACs with you if you want, I will make a great Earl grey with lemon
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I live in London, SE21, 12 minutes trip from Victoria station.
 We can even arrange some bigger tests, like few different DACs all together...._

 

If I were suspicious like you, I would say that inviting people to your studio doesn't necessarily mean that you are not related to Beresford.
 Why do you feel the need to describe your Bereford as high in the description of your equipment? 
 Quote: "_DAC - Caiman Beresford, *hi-end digital* to analog converter with Wolfson WM 8716 chip, 64x oversampling, LM 4562NA op-amps_"
 Isn't that biased? In my book high end DACs used in the pro industry include : DCS, Prism, Lynx, ... but not Bereford.

 By the way, any head-fier living in Paris and wishing to listen to my system can send me PM, I will be glad to receive them.


----------



## haloxt

Tresperros, earlier, Kingwa was asked about the leakage to power amps when turning off the FUN, and he replied that the FUN does not have the circuit to completely shunt it off, because at this price-point his circuits don't have that function. But I don't know anything about circuit design and don't know if he could fix the problem without additional cost OR with a reduction in sound quality.

 What slim.a means is you should choose a pro audio device because pro audio electronics have lots of connectivity, and of course a flat frequency response, and fit to work in a studio environment. Some Audio-gd products have only coaxial input to prevent using a switch that may lower sound quality, and all their gear probably have very unflat frequency response with all sorts of strange RMAA measurements because they think such sound tweaking is conducive to music listening, and especially their lower end products with less robust PSU have high sensitivity to the purity of power, and your power must be extremely dirty with 30 audio devices running.

 I have an audio-gd compass, and sometimes I'd do something crazy and put it on a power strip along with 500 watts of other stuff, and some things happen to the sound that I would prefer my mp3 player to it. When you get into audio-gd gear you have to take care of every aspect of your audio chain to maximize their potential. People unhappy with the audio-gd compass and FUN should look into purifying their power by turning off their gazillion devices at home/studio, and listening after 1AM, to see what they are capable of.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tresperros, earlier, Kingwa was asked about the leakage to power amps when turning off the FUN, and he replied that the FUN does not have the circuit to completely shunt it off, because at this price-point his circuits don't have that function. But I don't know anything about circuit design and don't know if he could fix the problem without additional cost OR with a reduction in sound quality.

 What slim.a means is you should choose a pro audio device because pro audio electronics have lots of connectivity, and of course a flat frequency response, and fit to work in a studio environment. Some Audio-gd products have only coaxial input to prevent using a switch that may lower sound quality, and all their gear probably have very unflat frequency response with all sorts of strange RMAA measurements because they think such sound tweaking is conducive to music listening, and especially their lower end products with less robust PSU have high sensitivity to the purity of power, and your power must be extremely dirty with 30 audio devices running._

 

Thanks for stepping up haloxt, that is exactly what I meant to say.
 Your point about PSU is very important, I had already stated in the review the importance of the power cord and power filter to the final sound.


----------



## slim.a

The text below is a quote from the review. I had already stated that plugging the FUN in different sockets of the same power filter gave me different sounds.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*2DAC / Headphone amp combo*

 First, let me tell you a little anecdote: while reviewing the unit, and in order to keep the conditions similar to what I am used to in my reference set-up, I would usually swap the FUN with either the dac19mk3 or the C2C. After listening for quite a while to the FUN sitting in place of the C2C, I thought that the tonal balance was clear. Then I put it where the dac19mK3 usually sits and the sound was darker (but still on the clear side). I was very puzzled until I remembered that the power cord of the C2C was plugged in the unfiltered socket of my bada filter, while the dac19mK3 was plugged in the filtered socket (both units use the same power cords). 
 So while reading my review, keep in mind that the audio-gd FUN but also its interaction with the rest of my playback chain._

 

I have also mentioned that I was using the Hifi Cables & Cie Simple Power for the Bada Filter (120€) and the Powertrans Plus for the rest of my equipment (180€/m). 

 For the review I wanted to minimize the effects of external factors: Power supply, vibration control (maple platforms), transport (using the hiface) ... in order to review the component (FUN) and not the associated equipment.
 So it is obvious that in a harsh environment, it simply won't sound as good as I described it. It is simple logic.

 By the way, when reviewing the Purepiper DAC A-1, I used the Artisan Silver Cables which were twice more expensive. And I also used the same power cords, transports, ... I use for the rest of my equipment. This explains that the Purepiper won't also sound as described in my review simply because in entry level systems, the rest of the chain will be more colored.


----------



## TheDuke990

But most people start thinking of "voodoo" when people talk about cable sound.
 I think cable are not as important as the audio press told us.
 Means the improvement in sound quality is much higher when you spend e.g. 1000€ in a better DAC as in cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 But neverthelesse I use also better cinch and power cables as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## haloxt

They are sometimes important in audio-gd equipment because 1. huge power draw relative to other brands, especially if you go into their top of the line gear where they highly recommend a thick power cord and 2. they usually use 24 awg spc internal wiring, which they consider to be tonally neutral and easy to bend to a sound signature you like with different cables.


----------



## tresperros

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The text below is a quote from the review. I had already stated that plugging the FUN in different sockets of the same power filter gave me different sounds.



 I have also mentioned that I was using the Hifi Cables & Cie Simple Power for the Bada Filter (120€) and the Powertrans Plus for the rest of my equipment (180€/m). 

 For the review I wanted to minimize the effects of external factors: Power supply, vibration control (maple platforms), transport (using the hiface) ... in order to review the component (FUN) and not the associated equipment.
 So it is obvious that in a harsh environment, it simply won't sound as good as I described it. It is simple logic.

 By the way, when reviewing the Purepiper DAC A-1, I used the Artisan Silver Cables which were twice more expensive. And I also used the same power cords, transports, ... I use for the rest of my equipment. This explains that the Purepiper won't also sound as described in my review simply because in entry level systems, the rest of the chain will be more colored._

 

Sadly to say, you started to behave like a wounded 10 years old girl...
 Keep it civil please, and don't get involved Caiman or other DAC into it, please. I wasn't insulting you, if I did, I am sorry.
 I have same rights here, like you not to have trillions posts.
 You opinions for me are 'biased, it's my opinion, and it's not an insult.
 I don't know your relation with audio equipment sellers or resellers, and I don't care if you have all for free or 60% discount. It's none of my business.
 I mentioned many times that my goal is only to have the best device.
 After this discussion, I received a few emails (from users of this forum) informing and warning me about giving a thorough opinion here.
 it's quite amazing what people told me!

 Let's stop it here, you are in love with FUN and AUDIO GD, and you prey they product as great. It's all good, I wish you, AUDIO GD and other users all the best. Note, that I bought item and have so far opposite opinion to yours, and I feel that I need to share that opinion with people.

 so stop it here, relax, enjoy your day..

 to change a subject and clear the air,

 for all hocus/pocus, mojo and other stuff guys , I highly recommend this video :
YouTube - Audio Myths Workshop

 have fun

 PS. listening at 1 AM is not necessary related to 'better power', 
 the way you feel, how your body reacts during a whole day, different season of year, or/and place you live is a key, try to listen at 9 AM, sounds bad isn't 
 it ? do you think is a 'bad power' or actually your body functioning different ??


----------



## rosgr63

Come on guys, cool off!
 We are here to enjoy the music, with whatever equipment we have.
 If I were either in Paris or London I would have visited you for sure, that nice cup of tea is very tempting!


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tresperros* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sadly to say, you started to behave like a wounded 10 years old girl...
 Keep it civil please, and don't get involved Caiman or other DAC into it, please._

 

So "keeping it civil" is to describe people "behaving like a 10 year old wounded girl"? I have to say that I have a hard time understanding your logic.
 Of course, as long as no one gets the Caiman involved ... we should be ok, right? 

 By the way, I am in love with neither the FUN nor the Purepiper. Neither one is the best thing I have listened to. However, I spent a lot of time writing the reviews to help junior head-fiers starting to build their system.
 When I buy AES research papers related to jitter and summarize them for people, I am trying to contribute positively to the head-fi community.

 My first head-fi related gear were the zero dac and little dot mkIII (which I have kept). I found Penchum's reviews very instructive and it was a big improvement in musicality in comparison with the emu 0404 usb I had at that time (which I also kept). That is the reason I take the time to write reviews. If I hadn't found by accident those reviews, I would have never started trying "exotic" components and would have stayed with the emu and the like.

 So what was your contribution to head-fi? Saying that the Beresford is the "best" product?


----------



## rosgr63

slim.a your reviews are first class and very objective.
 If some people have a different opinion that's fine, but nobody has the right to accuse you of anything we know you are doing your best.
 I also have a Bereford and I love it, but I am not saying is better or worse than FUN as I can't compare them.
 Please let's get back on the FUN.


----------



## tresperros

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_....
 So what was your contribution to head-fi? Saying that the Beresford is the "best" product?_

 

I never said so, If you read my posts carefully, you find quite opposite.
 But i promise you to do honest test FUN vs Behringer SRC2496 vs RME HDSP vs Caiman Beresford and share my thoughts with others here.

 take it easy....
 and watch the video, you could find some interesting info there


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rosgr63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_slim.a your reviews are first class and very objective.
 If some people have a different opinion that's fine, but nobody has the right to accuse you of anything we know you are doing your best.
 I also have a Bereford and I love it, but I am not saying is better or worse than FUN as I can't compare them.
 Please let's get back on the FUN._

 

Thanks rosgr63, I really appreciate it.

 As for the Beresford, I am not saying it is good or bad as I haven't listened to it. What I was saying is that the FUN (as the name indicates) is not targeted to the Pro community. It is very sensitive to the power supply, vibration, interconnects and transports which makes it unsuitable for Pro/studio usage.

 It is like if someone used a $2000 passive "audiophile" preamp with very long interconnects and a DAC with a high output impedance (for those who don't know, the results will be bad). 
 Such a device would shine only on very specific conditions (DAC with low output impedance, short interconnects, Amps with higher impedance). 
 A $200 preamp will probably do a much better job under harsh conditions. However, if you construct your system around such a passive preamp, you can achieve a much better performance than most "pro" preamps.

 It is all about how one inserts a component in a system. Audiophiles and "Pro" users simply do not have the same expectations.
 Being an "audiophile", I don't mind trying 5 different power cords if it means that one of them is really going to make a difference for my equipment. Pro gear is not constructed the same way. It is intended to be used close to 100% of its performance from day1 and under all circumstances.


----------



## Currawong

There's no drama here: tresperros bought the Fun and it doesn't suit his needs. In the process of the discussion of this we learned something useful about the design and its limitations.

 Audio is a complex hobby with a great many variables, as are people.


----------



## muad

Quote:


 Sadly to say, you started to behave like a wounded 10 years old girl... 
 

 from tress perros

 I gotta say, any credibility you had just went out the window with that comment.


----------



## tresperros

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's no drama here: tresperros bought the Fun and it doesn't suit his needs. In the process of the discussion of this we learned something useful about the design and its limitations.

 Audio is a complex hobby with a great many variables, as are people. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Absolutely top notch point.


----------



## dragonfyra

Been lurking around for a while, and I have to say I've read a lot of what Slim's written, and he's also personally answered a lot of my queries even when he didn't have to, as well as go out of his way to explain things on threads. At the same time, he's very direct with what he's saying, which I think Tresperros mistook as a personal jab. 

 Anyways........... subject change...let's not instigate more heat..

 Been using my Fun, with the Earth opa with DT880/600 for a few weeks now, sounds great, nice balance, but been noticing that I'm not getting as much details as I do. For example, today I'd been using my ipod classic 120 + headstage arrow 12 + SE310, listening to Infected Mushrooms. When I got home, I put on my headphones and felt a lot of the smaller details in songs were lost. 

 My setup is pretty ghetto as I'm just starting out, so don't laugh:
 realtek onboard spdif -> canare spdif cable -> Fun
 and... it's plugged into... as I quote Haloxt "on a power strip along with 500 watts of other stuff".

 I've already ordered the hiface, so I'm sure things will improve a bit there.

 Will better power management help with the details? Any decent price power cable and power filter combo to recommend?


----------



## tresperros

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_from tress perros

 I gotta say, any credibility you had just went out the window with that comment._

 

sorry to hear that....
 I am not here to sell anything, neither to build a fan base.
 Please read previous posts, and update yourself.
 I stated many times what I think about SLIM.a (non pejoratives though, if you don't have a time to read). 
 I just noticed that slim.a become very ... sensible about any criticism of equipment he owns/tests. I used to work for an audio/hifi magazine for a few years, and I remember 'transparency' of testers. I tested equipment too. Please don't take it wrong, but when we tested our advertisers (our feeders) equipment, there was always ahh and ooh. I hope you all understand that's wild wild west we live within... Hence when I see someone defending his point so strongly, as someone mentioned before...spider senses etc...
 Don't be naive thinking that Audio designers aren't here reading posts...
 I just leave to your imagination what you could do to help your business.
 Endorsement is first thing come to my mind, which is not thievery, or sth wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I am just saying.

 Slim.a I don't try to discredit you (as you did in previous post) or insult you.
 I am happy to have a healthy and open conversation.

 No biggie here, I am cool, I said sorry, when he said I insulted him. Check whole conversation between us and find when he's out of line too, so we were both ...emotional
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 are we cool now ?

 peace

 and most important - enjoy music !


----------



## les_garten

One thing is for sure, mentioning Beresford is sure to brand your posts as tripe. Whether they have merit or not. Beresford is in the "Lifetime Penalty Box" for most here. You should change your tactics in reference to referencing Beresford. You will always be suspect, just kinda the way things are...


----------



## rosgr63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One thing is for sure, mentioning Beresford is sure to brand your posts as tripe._

 

That is an unfair comment, some of us have Beresford equipment and like them.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dragonfyra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been using my Fun, with the Earth opa with DT880/600 for a few weeks now, sounds great, nice balance, but been noticing that I'm not getting as m
 Will better power management help with the details? Any decent price power cable and power filter combo to recommend?_

 

I suggest you visit Kosmic.us look at the Oyaide Power cords and Isotek power conditioners.
 Ask Joe details he's great to deal with.


----------



## haloxt

I think audio-gd should make $200-500 power conditioners. They do make a $1000 power regenerator dynamo D350, ipodpj posted a thread about it http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/au...erator-436265/ .

 I would recommend the furman ac-215 IF you can manage to get it for half off heh heh, but I think that'll be hard unless you live in the states. I don't recommend their higher end stuff, the internals look about the same until you go to $500+ furmans, and those are more specifically for power amps/subwoofers and the money might better off be spent on power amps and subwoofers that already have huge psu's.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rosgr63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is an unfair comment, some of us have Beresford equipment and like them._

 

Did you bother to read the next sentence, or just jerk your knee ending up with your foot in your mouth?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you bother to read the next sentence, or just jerk your knee ending up with your foot in your mouth?_

 

I know rosgr63 and I believe he didn't mean/intend to stir things up. Let us be polite to each other.

 This thread has gone wild these last few pages, let us please cool off and return to the topic. 

 We have had a constructive discussion so far (different modules and jumper settings, opamps, ...) and I hope that we can continue the same way.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know rosgr63 and I believe he didn't mean/intend to stir things up. Let us be polite to each other.

 This thread has gone wild these last few pages, let us please cool off and return to the topic. 

 We have had a constructive discussion so far (different modules and jumper settings, opamps, ...) and I hope that we can continue the same way._

 

Perhaps he should have read what I posted then? 

 I didn't say anything about Beresford gear quality. I merely explained how Breesford comments will/may be received.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps he should have read what I posted then? 

 I didn't say anything about Beresford gear quality. I merely explained how Breesford comments will/may be received._

 

By re-reading your post, I get your point. You are warning about the risk of perception and not at all about the quality.

 I hope that rosgr63 and you can work things out. I don't think his intent was to upset you or to misquote you. It was probably a bad timing/choice of words I guess.


----------



## muad

Anyhoo, Im still waiting on my LME98710ha's to arrive, seem to be taking forever. Ive also ordered the fet output module and the wolfson dac just for the hell of it. Other than slim.a has anyone else tried these modules? Any impressions? Ill give mine when they come in....



 Just trying to steer this thread away from the last 3 pages of garbage.... Oh and by the way slim. I really like your reviews. I take many reviews with a grain of salt. Your reviews have an honesty about them. You don't rave about everything you test. Or call everything a giant killer etc. It's kinda why I went with the fun. Thanks for all your hard work and advice....


----------



## movi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rosgr63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suggest you visit Kosmic.us look at the Oyaide Power cords and Isotek power conditioners.
 Ask Joe details he's great to deal with._

 

omg that's expensive. does it makes sense to buy a $400 DAC/Amp and then spend like $800 on power cord and filter? seems a $1200 DAC/Amp combo would have more effect... or not i have no idea. what do you guys think? i might buy a FUN but i'm pretty sure i won't be buying a power cord upgrade or a filter. how much audio quality will i be missing out on?


----------



## muad

Im using stock cables and a $30 belkin power bar. Sounds like heaven to my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you have a ton of stuff plugged in on the circuit you're gonna use for power or you know that the power in your building/area is dirty then get a filter. Remeber, the fun powersupply is of some decent quality. Much better than the little black power supplies that come with some stuff. That's one of the nice things about the fun in this price range. No need to spend $300 on a dac and buy a quality external power supply. It's also it's miles ahead of the internal power supply of my previous dac. The fun has a very nice noise floor. A very black background.... so it must be working well!


----------



## sinner6

I am interested in differences between the FET and Diamond output stages.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dragonfyra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been using my Fun, with the Earth opa with DT880/600 for a few weeks now, sounds great, nice balance, but been noticing that I'm not getting as much details as I do. For example, today I'd been using my ipod classic 120 + headstage arrow 12 + SE310, listening to Infected Mushrooms. When I got home, I put on my headphones and felt a lot of the smaller details in songs were lost. 

 My setup is pretty ghetto as I'm just starting out, so don't laugh:
 realtek onboard spdif -> canare spdif cable -> Fun
 and... it's plugged into... as I quote Haloxt "on a power strip along with 500 watts of other stuff".

 I've already ordered the hiface, so I'm sure things will improve a bit there.

 Will better power management help with the details? Any decent price power cable and power filter combo to recommend?_

 

IEMs, by their very nature, are faster than full-sized headphones. I know I'm committing a Head-fi sin by only mentioning second-hand information, but a very reputable and experienced Head-fier, who I wont name, said that in his experience, Beyers were slow.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for power, I've had good luck so far with the Silver Circle Audio Juice Box Jr from TTVJ. For $175, that's a couple of basic power cords in cost. Though as a general rule I'd say it's better to save the money for better gear, the Audio-gd power cords do seem to make an improvement.


----------



## dragonfyra

Thank you very much for everyone's suggestions, I'm checking them out right now.

 I understand. So I don't want to overspend on the power cable + power supply. On the other hand, I think these are things that I could continue using even one day if I get a newer, better amp/dac. 

 Muad, I also agree that it already sounds good, but many people here are getting a noticeable difference between just plugging it into a filled up power bar vs. plugging it straight into the socket by itself, which leaves me wondering how much this amp could get better =P

 I'm a bit conflicted right now though, because the hiface, and the other upgrades (oyaide spdif line, power cable + supply)I plan to get, would out cost the amp itself. Though they'd be gear that I could keep even when I change other things.

 Currawong, I know iem's inherently show more details, just because of their position in your ear, especially higher frequency ones. I was just a bit shocked, because I hadn't even compared it with my Westone's yet... now I'm really curious to try the dt880/600 on a better system to see the differences.


----------



## haloxt

I'm guessing the FUN has a better psu than the compass? If I get a power conditioner and power cord for my compass (right now it's just plugged into the wall while my other setup has the power conditioner), I would spend ~$100. Probably try to get a used power conditioner on ebay and DIY my own power cable with super thick home depot wires.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *movi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_omg that's expensive. does it makes sense to buy a $400 DAC/Amp and then spend like $800 on power cord and filter? seems a $1200 DAC/Amp combo would have more effect... or not i have no idea. what do you guys think? i might buy a FUN but i'm pretty sure i won't be buying a power cord upgrade or a filter. how much audio quality will i be missing out on?_

 

The Oyaide and Isotek (while very effective) are probably too expensive to use with the FUN. 
 Personally, I have had very good results with the Bada LB-5600, to my ears it was more effective than a Belkin power bar and a Supra mains block. I have a friend who uses the Bada LB-5600 with high power Class A tube amps and didn't limit their dynamics. (Some filters can improve things and suck the life and dynamics from the sound).
 However, the Bada is not perfect, it is affected by the power cord. So you will still need a good power cord.
 The only cheap power cord that makes an effective improvement (and not just a change in tonality) is the shielded Olflex power cord. I have tried other cheap copper bases and silver plated power cords but they were either too smooth or too bright. They were rather system dependant.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im using stock cables and a $30 belkin power bar. Sounds like heaven to my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If you have a ton of stuff plugged in on the circuit you're gonna use for power or you know that the power in your building/area is dirty then get a filter. Remeber, the fun powersupply is of some decent quality. Much better than the little black power supplies that come with some stuff. That's one of the nice things about the fun in this price range. No need to spend $300 on a dac and buy a quality external power supply. It's also it's miles ahead of the internal power supply of my previous dac. The fun has a very nice noise floor. A very black background.... so it must be working well!_

 

While the FUN's power supply has a big toroidal transformer and a lot of capacitors, it has been built with audiophile "transparency" in mind. I remember a while ago reading that Audio-gd's equipment didn't even use conventional fuses in order to maximize the overal "transparency". It was made so that it could scale up with better power cords and so that users could "tailor" the sound to suit their personal preferences. Kingwa is a very pragmatic person: even though he is an engineer (or maybe because he is good one), he understands that there is more than Frequency response to make different flavor gear. That is why he has 2 ranges of products neutral and musical. 
 BTW, most of what audiophiles spend a lot of hours listening to and comparing doesn't change the Frequency response: opamps, capacitors, output stages topologies, tubes, power cords, interconnects, ... Most of that affect other parameters (time domain) that are not usually measured by conventional means. 
 That is why even if the measured Signal to Noise ratio is low when plugged to a very polluted mains block, the time domain performance (jitter, impulse response, ...) might be heavily affected by that.
 Personally, with the same measured SNR, I have noticed different analyzing capability whether the DAC is plugged to a polluted mains block or to a separate clean one.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinner6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am interested in differences between the FET and Diamond output stages._

 

According to my testing, the Diamond is the more linear and accurate one. When I spent more time listening to the FUN last week (while waiting for the delivery of the dac19dsp/c2), I switched to the FET module which was fuller sounding. The FET is more "colored" than the Diamond output but has a pleasing sound. I have also suspected that the FET has more "drive" with the Sennheiser hd-650 but it was just a feeling and it would be nice to have other people's opinion on it.
 BTW, Pacific Valve is selling an "upgrade" version using the FET instead of the Diamond buffer as they liked it better that way but they are charging too much for it IMO.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dragonfyra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you very much for everyone's suggestions, I'm checking them out right now.

 I understand. So I don't want to overspend on the power cable + power supply. On the other hand, I think these are things that I could continue using even one day if I get a newer, better amp/dac. 

 Muad, I also agree that it already sounds good, but many people here are getting a noticeable difference between just plugging it into a filled up power bar vs. plugging it straight into the socket by itself, which leaves me wondering how much this amp could get better =P

 I'm a bit conflicted right now though, because the hiface, and the other upgrades (oyaide spdif line, power cable + supply)I plan to get, would out cost the amp itself. Though they'd be gear that I could keep even when I change other things.

 Currawong, I know iem's inherently show more details, just because of their position in your ear, especially higher frequency ones. I was just a bit shocked, because I hadn't even compared it with my Westone's yet... now I'm really curious to try the dt880/600 on a better system to see the differences._

 

The only good thing about "accessories" (cables, usb converters, power cords, ...) is that you can use them with your future purchase as well. I remember that at one point I was using a power cord that was more expensive than the headphone amp itself. However I kept that power cord since that moment and it has served well with many other equipment.

 Also if you are planning upgrading the source, digital and power supply, I suggest that you leave the digital cable for last. You are better off spending your money at first on the source and power supply. It will provide you with a better return on investment than an expensive digital cable might (in a non optimized system).


----------



## dragonfyra

Once again, thanks everyone.

 Think I'm going to steal a page from Slim's setup, and get the bada 5600 + 2 olflex (one for the power supply, one for the Fun, right?). 

 Noob question: 

 Where is the Olflex company from? I'm worried about the type of plug that it'll come in if I order it online, since I need a Hong Kong version (which is same as UK, I think).


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dragonfyra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Once again, thanks everyone.

 Think I'm going to steal a page from Slim's setup, and get the bada 5600 + 2 olflex (one for the power supply, one for the Fun, right?). 

 Noob question: 

 Where is the Olflex company from? I'm worried about the type of plug that it'll come in if I order it online, since I need a Hong Kong version (which is same as UK, I think)._

 

Olflex is a german company I believe. They usually come with Schuko (European) plugs. 
 Concerning, the power cords, and just to be on the safe side, if I were you I would only get one to try. Then if you like it you can get a second one. For example, if the tonal balance ends up being too clear or too smooth after the first power cord, you wouldn't want to overemphasize that sonic trait with a second one in the chain.


----------



## TheDuke990

lappkabel.de -> it is a German company.
 You can buy already assembled Lapp cables on ebay.

 Damn ... too slow


----------



## tresperros

I would strongly suggest any users of this very forum to watch this AES workshop video :
YouTube - Audio Myths Workshop

 you can find really interesting information, about audio myths, mojo, hocus pocus and others...
 It's very educational, worth to see and save some $$$ for future spending ...

 One more thing, there's a quite interesting debate on gearslutz (pro audio forum) about quality of converters.
 So, mentioned here by Slim.a Lynx as a hi-end (which is not) against Soundblaster and Delta.
 There are 3 files to download and listen
 Check it yourself and answer, 
 1. Can I hear the difference ?,
 and if yes is it justified to pay 100x more $$$ for it ?

Sound Blaster files!!!!!! Can you hear the difference? - Gearslutz.com

 have a great day!


----------



## slim.a

@ tresperros: the discussion you are trying to start is off topic and better suited for the sound science forum. You can start a thread of your own there.

 This part of the forum is dedicated to discussing subjective listening experience not what is theoretically/proven audible or not.
 You probably should read this: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/do...-forum-450574/

 I started this thread to share listening experiences with the FUN and how to set it up properly. If you intend to discuss something else, please start a separate thread on the sound science forum.


----------



## TheDuke990

Today I received my OPA Earth module. I hope I can find the time to change the OPA today in the evening and let them burn in up to this weekend.
 I think the 2134 is now fully burned in (round about 200h) and at the weekend I will compare again the Fun (with Earth and 2134) and my X-FI and aune. I will keep you up-to-date 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Today I received my OPA Earth module. I hope I can find the time to change the OPA today in the evening and let them burn in up to this weekend.
 I think the 2134 is now fully burned in (round about 200h) and at the weekend I will compare again the Fun (with Earth and 2134) and my X-FI and aune. I will keep you up-to-date 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Let us know how you like the OPA Earth.


----------



## Zikt

It's hard for me(non-English speaker) to catch up with this thread recently


----------



## tresperros

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ tresperros: the discussion you are trying to start is off topic and better suited for the sound science forum. You can start a thread of your own there.

 This part of the forum is dedicated to discussing subjective listening experience not what is theoretically/proven audible or not.
 You probably should read this: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/do...-forum-450574/

 I started this thread to share listening experiences with the FUN and how to set it up properly. If you intend to discuss something else, please start a separate thread on the sound science forum._

 

sorry mate, but I noticed few folks here thinking about spending their hard earned $$$ on audio hoax, so I thought it could be good idea to help them open eyes and hear some science facts about issue....
 my wrong....


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dragonfyra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm worried about the type of plug that it'll come in if I order it online, since I need a Hong Kong version (which is same as UK, I think)._

 

Here I found a website which sells the olflex (as well as other power cords) with UK compatible plugs. See here: Professional Mains Cables | Quality High Spec power Leads - Mains Cables R Us

 FYI, the olflex cords are shielded well constructed power cords that are widely used in industrial applications. It prevents EMI/RFI contamination of the equipment.


----------



## TheDuke990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let us know how you like the OPA Earth._

 

For sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 The 2134 or Earth has only an impact for the headphone out or for the line out as well ?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 The 2134 or Earth has only an impact for the headphone out or for the line out as well ?_

 

The opamps (2134 or Earth) are working whenever you are using the DAC whether it is from the DAC out or the preamp out.

 When you use the DAC out: you get a straigh feed : AD1852 - Opamp - DAC out

 When you use the Line out: you use the preamp section: AD1852 - Opamp - ACSS gain stage - Buffer stage - Line out.

 Personaly, even when I am using a headphone amp, I preferring the Line out over the DAC out. The Buffer stage lowers the output impedance I think which minimizes the effects of the interconnects.
 Burson Audio for example sells an outboard buffer stage that does exactly that (lowering the output impedance): you can see here: Audio Buffer 100


----------



## TheDuke990

Thank you very much for the nice explanation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 Maybe we can drink a beer together next time I traveled to Paris at my cost because from time to time I have to work close to Paris 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## ulyses

I could'nt find a direct comment about Fun and k702 synergy over 25 pages (May be just can't see). How is it performance with k701-702 phones? (Any experience please)


----------



## superchan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ulyses* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could'nt find a direct comment about Fun and k702 synergy over 25 pages (May be just can't see). How is it performance with k701-702 phones? (Any experience please)_

 

This is mine first DAC/AMP and AKG K701 headphone i don't have other device or full size headphone to compare with this. I can only say compare to standard laptop sound with a normal 3,5" stereo headphone the sound is great


----------



## Mad Max

Some people who posted in the first Compass thread remarked that it did a good job with K70x, so it makes sense that FUN is just as good or better with those AKGs.


----------



## bobxxxbob

Ordered myself one of these the other day. It is said in this thread that that FUN's transformer packs a lot of punch so would it be possible to drive highly sensitive speakers straight from its line out?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheDuke990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you very much for the nice explanation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 Maybe we can drink a beer together next time I traveled to Paris at my cost because from time to time I have to work close to Paris 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

That would be nice, let me know (by PM) next time you will be around Paris. You could eventually come at my place have a listen to my system 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobxxxbob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ordered myself one of these the other day. It is said in this thread that that FUN's transformer packs a lot of punch so would it be possible to drive highly sensitive speakers straight from its line out?_

 

The Fun can output 3,5 watts at 25 ohms. However, I don't know how it would react with a speaker with a lower impedance so there might be a risk damaging your unit. 
 To be on the safe side, you might want to ask Kingwa about it before trying it.
 BTW, according to the specs, the headphone out has an output impedance of 1.5 ohms which would make the damping factor of only 4 or 5 with a typical speaker, which is not a lot... but at the same time there are tube power amps that have an even higher output impedance. So it is hard to say.


----------



## noinimod

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobxxxbob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ordered myself one of these the other day. It is said in this thread that that FUN's transformer packs a lot of punch so would it be possible to drive highly sensitive speakers straight from its line out?_

 

Obviously not dude.. There's a reason why AG has speaker amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you're talking about their pre-amps, such as the c39 and c3mk3, those can drive headphones, according to what Kingwa told me.


----------



## ulyses

@superchan
 @Mad Max
 Thanks for answers.


----------



## dragonfyra

Thank you TheDuke990 and slim.a, again. 
 Just sent main-cables-r-us an email to see if they have one in UK plug, the only one they have right now with UK plug is with fig8. 

 Now to pick up the Bada which will be a lot easier locally.

 You guys made this so much easier for me... think my wallet wants to speak to you two...


----------



## TheDuke990

@dragonfyra: nice to hear .. your welcome

 After 50h of additional burn in of my OPA Earth (Fun is burned in for round about 250h) I couldn't wait any longer and start comparing again all my stuff.

 To cut a long story short -> I'll keep my Fun with installed Earth !

 The Earth is a small upgrade but noticable. Anyway the bass doesn't have the same impact or intensity when I listen to my X-FI (amplified by Logitech Z4 remote control 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and my aune but I think that Kingwa told me the truth that the Fun doesn't emphasize any area of the music and it sounds more neutral.
 Means the bass is not lost ... no the bass I can hear with my other stuff is simply not on the record !

 And even if it is not the truth (no way ... I'm a believer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) I like the sound out of the Fun more than from my other stuff. For me the sound is clearer, I can hear more details and it is more accurate as well. It feels like that the Fun displays voices (mids) and highs much easier than my other stuff (sounds a little bit stressed).

 Unfortunately I search for an "all in one" solution. If not the DAC19 and C2 leads my into temptation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 I like the audio-gd style, the quality rating and as well the sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 And last but not least thanks for the fast and friendly support from Ampcity and Kingwa.


----------



## muad

I finally got my LME98710x2 opamp (TO99) in, and have to agree with slim.a that it's better than the OPA earth. It's tonally very similar. However the difference is noticable in two areas. I use my Fun as a dac and preamp for my audioengine speakers. I found with the Opa Earth, the soundstage is wider but not natural. The extreme left and right parts of the soundstage are very in your face. The sound basically sounds like it's coming right from the speakers themselves. With the LME98710's the soundstage is slightly narrower, making the outer edges of the soundstage sound more natural and the sound never sounds like it's coming from the speakers themselves. The other noticable improvement is the instrument seperation. I find in really congested pieces of music the seperate instruments are not blended together. It feels as if the dac isn't struggling. Very easy to pick out the various instruments, making it sound less like a mess and more coherent. The LME98710 is definitely my opamp of choice now. 

 Also I will post some impressions of the fet output module and the wolfson dac when they arrive. Ironically after I ordered the modules, the Fun smoothed out completely. Not a hint of harshness. I guess I finally past the 300 hour mark


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally got my LME98710x2 opamp (TO99) in, and have to agree with slim.a that it's better than the OPA earth. It's tonally very similar. However the difference is noticable in two areas. I use my Fun as a dac and preamp for my audioengine speakers. I found with the Opa Earth, the soundstage is wider but not natural. The extreme left and right parts of the soundstage are very in your face. The sound basically sounds like it's coming right from the speakers themselves. With the LME98710's the soundstage is slightly narrower, making the outer edges of the soundstage sound more natural and the sound never sounds like it's coming from the speakers themselves. The other noticable improvement is the instrument seperation. I find in really congested pieces of music the seperate instruments are not blended together. It feels as if the dac isn't struggling. Very easy to pick out the various instruments, making it sound less like a mess and more coherent. The LME98710 is definitely my opamp of choice now. 

 Also I will post some impressions of the fet output module and the wolfson dac when they arrive. Ironically after I ordered the modules, the Fun smoothed out completely. Not a hint of harshness. I guess I finally past the 300 hour mark _

 

How are you socketing the T099 Package?


----------



## Currawong

Interesting. It could be, with less silicon to put power through, that the Fun is doing a bit better job with the IC OPAMPs, though from what I understand, Kingwa put enough capacitance in the power supply for it that it shouldn't matter. I have two OPA211s on a Browndog adaptor in the Fun, which goes to a Parasound Zamp and Paradigm Titans, and I must say they are better with speakers than the expensive OPA627s. So much so, my wife, who usually ignores my audio hobby commented on the difference! The OPA211 is more like the Moon HDAM though in that the mids are a tad recessed (or the bass and treble extended, if you want to look at it another way), so I can say I'm EQ'ing the sound a little this way.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally got my LME98710x2 opamp (TO99) in, and have to agree with slim.a that it's better than the OPA earth. It's tonally very similar. However the difference is noticable in two areas. I use my Fun as a dac and preamp for my audioengine speakers. I found with the Opa Earth, the soundstage is wider but not natural. The extreme left and right parts of the soundstage are very in your face. The sound basically sounds like it's coming right from the speakers themselves. With the LME98710's the soundstage is slightly narrower, making the outer edges of the soundstage sound more natural and the sound never sounds like it's coming from the speakers themselves. The other noticable improvement is the instrument seperation. I find in really congested pieces of music the seperate instruments are not blended together. It feels as if the dac isn't struggling. Very easy to pick out the various instruments, making it sound less like a mess and more coherent. The LME98710 is definitely my opamp of choice now. 

 Also I will post some impressions of the fet output module and the wolfson dac when they arrive. Ironically after I ordered the modules, the Fun smoothed out completely. Not a hint of harshness. I guess I finally past the 300 hour mark _

 

Hi muad,

 Glad you are enjoying your new opamp. I think that those metal can versions are really a step up from the plastic ones. I remember reading somewhere that one of the chief designers at National Semiconductors mentioned that the metal can versions "sounded better" than the plastic ones while they had the same specs. He couldn't explain why but that is why they noticed in their reference system as well.

 By the way, did you mean LME49710HA instead of "LME98710"? Personally, I am using the dual LME49720HA, so if you are using 2xLME49710HA, it is probably even better than what I have tried


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How are you socketing the T099 Package?_

 

You can either buy them fitted in a Browndog adaptor like here: LM4562 LME49720 LME49710 NA MA HA.
 Or you can cut and bend the legs of the metal can opamps to fit the socket of the opamp (if it is a dual one and you know what way it goes in).


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can either buy them fitted in a Browndog adaptor like here: LM4562 LME49720 LME49710 NA MA HA.
 Or you can cut and bend the legs of the metal can opamps to fit the socket of the opamp (if it is a dual one and you know what way it goes in)._

 


 Kewl, was wondering if you just pronged it in.


----------



## muad

Lol Yeah I mean't LME49710HA.... I got it made by robscix on headfi. It's two LME49710HA's on an adapter that's custom made. I had a hard time finding that adapter anywhere on the net. The japanese web pages I found wanted $30 per adapter without the opamp. So Robscix helped me out. Curra, I agree the opa627 sounds pretty bad using the Fun with speakers. I didn't leave that one in for too long.

 From what I've heard (not sure if its true or not), the metal can acts as a shielding. And using the two single channel opamp gives better stereo seperation. Im curious to how this opamp would translate to headphones....


----------



## bearbb

Hi slim.a,

 Thanks for your nice review. I am thiking whether to get a Audio-gd DAC-19 or audio-gd fun. After I read your review, I got more understand about both devices.

 I noticed that you use hiface bnc verion and connect it to Audio-gd DAC-19. As far as I know, Audio-gd DAC-19 doesn't got a bnc connection, do you use any converter to make that connection?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bearbb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi slim.a,

 Thanks for your nice review. I am thiking whether to get a Audio-gd DAC-19 or audio-gd fun. After I read your review, I got more understand about both devices.

 I noticed that you use hiface bnc verion and connect it to Audio-gd DAC-19. As far as I know, Audio-gd DAC-19 doesn't got a bnc connection, do you use any converter to make that connection?_

 

Hi bearbb,

 In my review I was comparing the dac19mk3 with the FUN. Since then, I have sold the dac19mk3 and bought the newer model: the dac19dsp (which is better than the dac19mk3).

 I am currently writing a review about the dac19dsp and C2. I am about 80% done with the review and I am probably going to post it tomorrow.

 Concerning the BNC input, I had asked Kingwa to add me a BNC input for the DAC19mk3 (I had both coaxial and RCA). 
 For the dac19dsp, I asked Kingwa to replace the RCA input by a BNC one (the same that is offered as an option for the FUN). So now I only have BNC coaxial since most of my cables and sources have BNC connections.


----------



## superchan

I have a FUN i like to order a extra C2 is this combination recommended ??


----------



## bearbb

Hi slim.a,

 I will wait for your review before I order the dac19. I also followed your review and ordered a Oyaide DB-510 BNC from amazon jp. I think it's cheaper if I buy it directly from Japan. Thanks.


----------



## noinimod

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bearbb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi slim.a,

 I will wait for your review before I order the dac19. I also followed your review and ordered a Oyaide DB-510 BNC from amazon jp. I think it's cheaper if I buy it directly from Japan. Thanks._

 

Hah, i don't need a crystall ball to know slim.a's review of the DAC19 DSP will be immensely positive


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *superchan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a FUN i like to order a extra C2 is this combination recommended ??_

 

I would recommend selling the FUN and getting the other two.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *noinimod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hah, i don't need a crystall ball to know slim.a's review of the DAC19 DSP will be immensely positive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm hopeful slim.a's forthcoming review of the DSP1 equipped version of the DAC19 may serve to illuminate some tangible differences between the MK3 revision using the PMD-100/DF1704 digital filters vs the Alterra Cyclone II filter (DSP1 chip). I realize however that his memory of the MK3 may or may not allow such a thing....in any event I find myself waiting with anticipation (like many others here, no doubt) of slim.a's thoughts and conclusions about the 19DSP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## slim.a

Hi everyone, 

 For those that are interested, I have just posted the review of the dac19dsp/c2 here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/rev...ection-483899/


----------



## RonO

After nearly 4 years of reading headfi, and a whopping 2 posts, I have placed my order with Mr. Kingwa for a FUN today.

 I have Alessandro MS-1's, and Denon AH-D2000's. I use one of Norm's v6 Go-vibe portable amps with a 12v power supply (and battery, its a rechargable model). 

 I ordered the USB FUN, with the extra Wolfson DAC, and Earth and Moon HDAM's as options. I can't wait to burn it it and begin to listen to my music all over again.

 RonO


----------



## haloxt

If you're coming from computer line-out or mp3 player line-out you will see a big upgrade. It's good you got different modules, even if the ACSS one is technically superior it's a good experience to hear the same songs with minor tweaks and figure out your preferred sound signature.


----------



## superchan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would recommend selling the FUN and getting the other two._

 

I was thinking to upgrade in parts buying C2 + DAC -19 together is pretty expensive for me


----------



## muad

Hi RonO

 That's one of the greatest things about hifi. When you make a big jump, rediscovering your music collection it's a great experience.


----------



## muad

A little update on the LME498710 module Im using in the Fun. I don't believe in opamp burnin but somethings changing in the sound and not for the better. It sounds nothing like opa earth anymore and is a little muddy sounding in the highs and upper mids... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really didn't believe that IC opamps could burn in?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A little update on the LME498710 module Im using in the Fun. I don't believe in opamp burnin but somethings changing in the sound and not for the better. It sounds nothing like opa earth anymore and is a little muddy sounding in the highs and upper mids... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really didn't believe that IC opamps could burn in?_

 

I've never heard anybody mention Opamp burn in, but there are Lunatics under every rock for sure...


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A little update on the LME498710 module Im using in the Fun. I don't believe in opamp burnin but somethings changing in the sound and not for the better. It sounds nothing like opa earth anymore and is a little muddy sounding in the highs and upper mids... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I really didn't believe that IC opamps could burn in?_

 

You might want to try a different jumper setting on the AD1852 DAC. I remember that when trying different opamps, I would end up choosing one or the other jumper settings.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've never heard anybody mention Opamp burn in, but there are Lunatics under every rock for sure..._

 

There are a lot of people who have noticed burn-in in opamps, cables and other components as well. Calling people lunatics because you haven't heard the same thing or because you don't understand why there is a difference is an extremist position. You can disagree with people's opinions but labeling them as "lunatics" is neither open minded nor polite.

 Just to give you a little bit of perspective, people who used to hear a difference between digital cables and their direction were called "lunatics". If you have a look at these measurements (see here: Stereophile: A Transport of Delight: CD Transport Jitter), you will not only find that different digital cables have different jitter measurements but that each direction gives you a different measurement.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You might want to try a different jumper setting on the AD1852 DAC. I remember that when trying different opamps, I would end up choosing one or the other jumper settings.




 There are a lot of people who have noticed burn-in in opamps, cables and other components as well. Calling people lunatics because you haven't heard the same thing or because you don't understand why there is a difference is an extremist position. You can disagree with people's opinions but labeling them as "lunatics" is neither open minded nor polite.

 Just to give you a little bit of perspective, people who used to hear a difference between digital cables and their direction were called "lunatics". If you have a look at these measurements (see here: Stereophile: A Transport of Delight: CD Transport Jitter), you will not only find that different digital cables have different jitter measurements but that each direction gives you a different measurement._

 


 Excuse me, but I referred to Opamps in particular, non-discrete Opamps. And I think anyone who believes an Opamp burns in, is well, a Lunatic... IMHO.

 I think it's more likely Volcanic Ash you might be hearing...


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice!


----------



## Mad Max

We are all free to believe what we wish, but no amount of burn-in will allow Earth to touch 4627-1BR.
 Pfffhahahahaha.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excuse me, but I referred to Opamps in particular, non-discrete Opamps. And I think anyone who believes an Opamp burns in, is well, a Lunatic... IMHO.

 I think it's more likely Volcanic Ash you might be hearing..._

 

Who drew the line and said that discrete opamps could benefit from burn-in and that non-discrete opamps could not? I didn't see that memo ...

 Some people think that burn-in doesn't exist for all audio equipement (save the speakers) ... 

 So you are saying that because your personal experience showed you that discrete opamps do "burn-in", you are not a lunatic but if someone notices 'burn-in" in a non-discrete opamp, they are a lunatic? Where is the logic in that?

 As I said earlier, it is rude and impolite to treat people as being lunatic just because you don't agree with their findings.


----------



## rosgr63

X2


----------



## muad

WTH is a 4627-1BR?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who drew the line and said that discrete opamps could benefit from burn-in and that non-discrete opamps could not? I didn't see that memo ...

 Some people think that burn-in doesn't exist for all audio equipement (save the speakers) ... 

 So you are saying that because your personal experience showed you that discrete opamps do "burn-in", you are not a lunatic but if someone notices 'burn-in" in a non-discrete opamp, they are a lunatic? Where is the logic in that?

 As I said earlier, it is rude and impolite to treat people as being lunatic just because you don't agree with their findings._

 

Because I believe that some Capacitors undergo oxidation. I can comprehend where they can change from a mechanical-elctro level of function. IC's sorry, don't believe it. And don't believe you can demonstrate this. If you could, you would win the prizes that have been offered for this type of thing. Have you called TI or National and told them about this? They might be interested in how much their Opamaps "Mature" and how quickly they do it. Maybe they will fix them? Put your Golden ears where your mouth is. It's as simple as that. I also don't believe Caps take thousands of hours to start working properly either. Think about who perpetuates this stuff, vendors! There are tons of vendors with not 1 hr of engineering background selling crap. Mainly because the fish are biting.

 I think that on a daily basis, Blood Sugar, Hormone levels, circadian rhythms, Sunspots, and the Power Grid have a much more profound effect on what you hear, among a myriad of other variables, such as your relationship with your wife, boss or whether someone cut you off on the way home from work. But I feel certain, its not the maturation of your non-discrete opamp over the last 7 days.

 Do Tiptoes burn in as well from Gravity? Where do you draw the line here?

 Don't you find it amazing that after all this time, none of the Golden Ear types can set down and ID the characteristic they say they can? This premise is so easy to put to rest, isn't it? Just prove you can hear what you do. This is such a simple thing, and yet, the BS marches forward.

 This is FAITH based Audio.

 Don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a period in New Gear where it settles in and there may be some changes, especially in the first 24 hours after build. I do believe that Caps have form up change. So it's a sliding scale here. I have problems understanding non-discrete Opamp maturation and that someone claims to be able to hear that someone reversed their interconnects for instance.


----------



## haloxt

I thought opamps change over time and temperature, called drift. Doesn't just happen in the first 50 hours though, it's something that happens over years.

 Like muad said, he isn't sure if it is the metal can opamps or something else causing his perceived sound difference. Some people (including myself) think audio-gd products go through a rollercoaster burn-in, so let's just assume it's something else and drop this opamp debate


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought opamps change over time and temperature, called drift. Doesn't just happen in the first 50 hours though, it's something that happens over years.

 Like muad said, he isn't sure if it is the metal can opamps or something else causing his perceived sound difference. Some people (including myself) think audio-gd products go through a rollercoaster burn-in, so let's just assume it's something else and drop this opamp debate_

 

You can drop whatever you want. 

 RE, the rollercoaster effect.

 Would you have heard it if it wasn't mentioned by somebody else?

 We'll never know, but this behavior can be seen in groupthink and group hysteria, and group suggestion. How many people are ID'd as criminals that are exonerated later and the ID was found to have been derived through suggestion from the police or "other" eyewitnesses?


----------



## haloxt

Quote:


 Would you have heard it if it wasn't mentioned by somebody else? 
 

Don't know. But the reason I bring it up is because there should be many other components inside the compass that are more likely to burn-in than the metal can opamps.


----------



## muad

Quote:


 I think that on a daily basis, Blood Sugar, Hormone levels, circadian rhythms, Sunspots, and the Power Grid have a much more profound effect on what you hear, among a myriad of other variables, such as your relationship with your wife, boss or whether someone cut you off on the way home from work. But I feel certain, its not the maturation of your non-discrete opamp over the last 7 days. 
 

I agree with environmental/listener changes causing differences to the sound of music. Very noticable....

 Les... what do you consider normal burnin time for capacitors? After how long should there be no more perceivable change? I noticed the Fun was ridiculously bright in the mids from the minute I got it. Even with the opa moon in. The earth was out of the question at that point. As the mids started to recess I noticed a detail loss in vocals while using the moon. The opa earth was better now but still to harsh in the mids. Most if not all of that is gone now but it did take a fair amount of time before my ears could take the mids... I have sensitive hearing by the way, as in they don't take shrill sounds very well


----------



## Currawong

Les is back to his old form again I see. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With the Compass, I heard the radical changes in sound through the first 350 hours. I didn't actually believe comments that the treble dropped out for a while until one morning when I started listening and everything was dull, right on the mark for when Pricklely Peete said it would (which I found out after asking about it).


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with environmental/listener changes causing differences to the sound of music. Very noticable....

 Les... what do you consider normal burnin time for capacitors? After how long should there be no more perceivable change? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No clue about that. I have no EE background, most PhD/EE types, well I'm sure you know what they would say. I didn't like the REF1 te first time I heard it. I also don't listen to eq while I give it the initial burn in. I run all my gear for 2 weeks straight just to make sure it has no issues. During this period I listen just a bit each day. It was not very precise to me the first day. I was disappointed. Not good the 2nd or 3rd day either. Around the 5th and 6th day, I went hmmm, that sounds a lot better. I think I like it a lot. Total listening time first 7 days, maybe an hour. I haven't heard any changes since, and it has probably 2 thousand hours. 

 What caused it to sound better, I don't know. I could conceive that caps forming an oxide layer from what I've read. Others say they oxidize very quickly.

 For some reason I'm severely skeptical of the opamp burnin. I'm skeptical by nature. I like things that can be proven, repeated, and are based in science. I don't understand how ICs can change their character so much as to be audibly different.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Put your Golden ears where your mouth is._

 

Les_garten,

 You are probably the most stupid and self centered person here in this forum. I ask you twice to be polite and stop insulting people and you can't stop yourself from doing it.

 The rules of the forum are clear: anyone can state their subjective listening preference without having to prove anything. If you wish to discuss what is possible to burn-in and not according to yourself, open a thread in the sound science forum. But I am pretty sure objectivists over there will plainly laugh at you when you will say to them that a discrete opamp or a DAC goes through a "burn-in" period. As far as I know no one has proven it in a repeatable manner. Again this is not the point here and read this : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/do...-forum-450574/

 As the thread opener here, I am asking you to limit your comments to your subjective listening experiences about the FUN and to stop insulting people. If you can't I am sure a group of people will gladly complain to the moderators about your attitude.

 I am going on vacation for a few days, so I won't be able to respond to posts during that period. I just hope that you will have the self respect to stop insulting people and thinking that your way of thinking is the only way.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Les_garten,

 You are probably the most stupid and self centered person here in this forum. I ask you twice to be polite and stop insulting people and you can't stop yourself from doing it.

 The rules of the forum are clear: anyone can state their subjective listening preference without having to prove anything. If you wish to discuss what is possible to burn-in and not according to yourself, open a thread in the sound science forum. But I am pretty sure objectivists over there will plainly laugh at you when you will say to them that a discrete opamp or a DAC goes through a "burn-in" period. As far as I know no one has proven it in a repeatable manner. Again this is not the point here and read this : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/do...-forum-450574/

 As the thread opener here, I am asking you to limit your comments to your subjective listening experiences about the FUN and to stop insulting people. If you can't I am sure a group of people will gladly complain to the moderators about your attitude.

 I am going on vacation for a few days, so I won't be able to respond to posts during that period. I just hope that you will have the self respect to stop insulting people and thinking that your way of thinking is the only way._

 

Just because you start a thread and say some "stuff" doesn't mean it can't be commented on. Get it... You blew out some tripe and I called it, nuff said on it. 

 My DAC seemed to change and tighten up at 7 days, I don't know what caused it. It has sounded the same ever since. That particular model is known for some Software issues. Perhaps that was it. Don't know. Maybe it experienced the Cap maturation. I still don't know. I postulated what has been said by others before regards "burn in". That's all. That's the only piece of gear that I have heard change. I think most "changes" commented on are the result of a myriad of things not associated with the gear, except for acclimation. 

 Sorry if the play has been a little rough for you. But saying an IC undergoes Burnin has just got to bring out at least one opposing view. Wouldn't ya think?

 Anyhow, maybe the opamp is going bad?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just because you start a thread and say some "stuff" doesn't mean it can't be commented on. Get it... You blew out some tripe and I called it, nuff said on it. 

 My DAC seemed to change and tighten up at 7 days, I don't know what caused it. It has sounded the same ever since. That particular model is known for some Software issues. Perhaps that was it. Don't know. Maybe it experienced the Cap maturation. I still don't know. I postulated what has been said by others before regards "burn in". That's all. That's the only piece of gear that I have heard change. I think most "changes" commented on are the result of a myriad of things not associated with the gear, except for acclimation. 

 Sorry if the play has been a little rough for you. But saying an IC undergoes Burnin has just got to bring out at least one opposing view. Wouldn't ya think?

 Anyhow, maybe the opamp is going bad?_

 

Les-garten,

 I don't think you understand the subtelty: there is a difference between saying that you don't believe that burn-in exist on IC opamps and you saying that people who believe such a thing are lunatics. I am not against an opposing view, but I am against you insulting people.

 I also wanted to point out that you clearly lack logic in your reasoning: you are allowed to say that some stuff is allowed to burn-in and that other stuff is not allowed. You are basing that on your personal experience and your limited understanding about how electronics work.

 What I am saying is not that IC opamps do burn-in or don't burn-in. It is beyond that. What I am saying is that everybody deserves respect even if their opinion doesn't suit your beliefs. Since you have no proof that the Ref-1 burned-in during the first week, you could also be called a "lunatic" by someone else. That is why a smart person would know to respect other people opinions. You can disagree and state your opinion/beliefs but it is unacceptable to start insulting people.


----------



## rosgr63

Have a nice holiday, and let the rest of us handle Mr Sour!


----------



## Pacha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also wanted to point out that you clearly lack logic in your reasoning: you are allowed to say that some stuff is allowed to burn-in and that other stuff is not allowed. You are basing that on your personal experience and your limited understanding about how electronics work.
 Since you have no proof that the Ref-1 burned-in during the first week, you could also be called a "lunatic" by someone else._

 

QFT, I must say.
 As CPU are growing old with time due to current stripping off atoms of the PCB, I guess it's not impossible at all that there is burn-in in a device such an amp and/or a DAC. 
 By the way, I also noticed sound changes after a while on my FUN, and the sound I heard at first has changed progressively and the changes look like permanent for now.
 Maybe it is due to real burn-in, maybe because of time to adapt to a "new sound", maybe placebo (I really heard the changes so I won't say that). Anyway, we almost all experienced that change.
 Same deal as yours in the end, thus there's no point describing people as lunatics or voodoo followers.


----------



## muad

I don't think the fun burn in is placebo. It was really very harsh at the beginning. Almost unlistenable. The later burn in may very well be placebo. Mine seems to be done burning in now. But as soon as my other dac and fet modules come in ill have to start all over again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I don't really think calling anyone a lunatic is really that bad. It's his opinion and we live in a free world. And to be honest when I read some post I kinda think they are lunatics. Things like $500 optical cable reviews come to mind...


----------



## Pacha

To let you guys know about the ability of the FUN to drive a 600 Ohms Beyer, I've received my T1 today, and I've no problem driving them with the FUN. But I have to crank up the volume to ¾ to have quite loud volume (with high gain mode)
 While I was at 10am to 1pm with my DT 880, usually 11am, I now need to push the volume to 1pm to 4pm, usually 2pm. Max of the FUN volume knob at a bit more than 5pm drives the T1 a bit too loud, it becomes unbearable.


----------



## TheDuke990

@Pacha: thanks .. but the Fun doesn't have any distortion on this volume level like my aune. The Fun works very well on the whole volume level. Means it doesn't matter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Pacha

Yes I agree with you, I didn't said to say that there is distorsion at high volume setting on the FUN, just that the 600 ohms Beyer T1 is well driven. Just had to push the volume further on the knob but that's all. I can have enough volume without distorsion so everything is fine.


----------



## _Stooge_

May be a dumb question as i know the answer is pretty obvious, but...Im wondering if upgrading from an ibasso p3+ / ipod combo to the FUN would give me significant improvement? If anyone could give me an idea of how much more ill be gaining as ive already been blown away with what my portable has done for me. thx!


----------



## sinner6

If you have a source with a digital output (i.e. not the ipod), so that you can take advantage of the FUN's DAC, the I would say it's a whole different universe for the better. If you're just amping the headphone out from a portable device, then I'd say don't bother, the damge has been done and an amp alone won't fix it.


----------



## TheDuke990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pacha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I agree with you, I didn't said to say that there is distorsion at high volume setting on the FUN, just that the 600 ohms Beyer T1 is well driven. Just had to push the volume further on the knob but that's all. I can have enough volume without distorsion so everything is fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I agree with you. What I tried to point out is that the Fun doesn't have any distortion on 90 or 100% volumen output. So there are no problems for the Fun when the headphone needs much power to drive proper.


----------



## _Stooge_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinner6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you have a source with a digital output (i.e. not the ipod), so that you can take advantage of the FUN's DAC, the I would say it's a whole different universe for the better. If you're just amping the headphone out from a portable device, then I'd say don't bother, the damge has been done and an amp alone won't fix it._

 

Sorry i didnt clarify.... Yes, i would be running it out of my computer.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Noticed that on the Fun webspage, the Gain Modules for version B are no longer available and that the FUN is now offered in a basic version, which is essentially the same as Version A. Difference is in the Caps, resistors, volume pot and Headphone jack using different brands.

 Perhaps there's more demand for FUN in its Version A configuration rather than the Version B. Hoping too that there might still be a PCM1704UK module for the DA stage in the future. Although with the release of basic version, whether that's feasible without the FUN eating into the sales of DAC19 or higher DACs.


----------



## ulyses

Simple version is 190usd. Very good price. But how much effect on sound quality that different brand parts, that is the question.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ulyses* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Simple version is 190usd. Very good price. But how much effect on sound quality that different brand parts, that is the question._

 

Looks like a hell of a deal for $190!


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ulyses* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Simple version is 190usd. Very good price. But how much effect on sound quality that different brand parts, that is the question._

 

Looks like it's really an introductory deal to Audio-Gd's entry level gears, like the mini Sparrow just released. 

 I wonder how this will impact the release of a PCM1704UK module for those of us hoping to see one being developed for the FUN (and now Sparrow)?


----------



## superchan

wow price different of 140 usd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but there is also a basic version for the Sparrow version 125 usd


----------



## Pacha

Still waiting for a PCM1704UK chip for the FUN


----------



## kunalraiker

FUN Basic selling for $190 on website.


----------



## muad

Krap, Im too tired to figure out what this means for us PCM1704UK people.... Anyone have any idea if this is a good or bad thing?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Krap, Im too tired to figure out what this means for us PCM1704UK people.... Anyone have any idea if this is a good or bad thing?_

 

Is that concept even alive and well??


----------



## Currawong

I'm honestly not sure if there'd be any benefit to a PCM1704UK in the Fun. I doubt it would improve much over the AD1852 and you'd need at least two of them, making for a $50+ upgrade.


----------



## muad

I don't know, there's obviously a demand for it. Other than what Kingwa's already said there's been no other mention of it. Im quite happy with the fun the way it is, but would buy the PCM1704 module if it were available. I think many people would. I think kingwa would look into it but if there wasn't a noticable difference/improvement then I don't think he would put it into production. The one reason I think there might be an improvement is that the Fun is very responsive to different modules. I can easily notice differences between opamps and Im guessing once I receive my fet output module and wolfson dac that I will be able to notice a difference in them also. I think the Fun sounds as good as it's lowest quality component. What the weak link is.. well I don't have any kind of clue, most of what I've written is simply uneducated guesswork...


----------



## Kayk

I wanna pick one of these up so badly, but I don't want to drop like $50 on just shipping when I can find someone in the US to ship it for like $10 D:

 So I shall play the waiting game.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Having heard both the FUN and the DAC19/C2, I can say on my part I would look forward to a PCM1704UK module. Maybe its an oversimplification to compare the two but to my ears, the FUN sounds good but IMHO, the PCM1704 module will take it up to another level yet still below the DAC19/C2. Would even consider paying $100 for the upgrade module.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kayk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wanna pick one of these up so badly, but I don't want to drop like $50 on just shipping when I can find someone in the US to ship it for like $10 D:

 So I shall play the waiting game._

 

Good luck with that. However, most people who price gear that they bought from China factor in what they paid in shipping as part of the price they paid. I have some gear I bought that had a $170 shipping cost. That factors into the cost of the gear. It is also reflected into the price if you buy from Pacific Valve.

 But there is nothing wrong with going for the "pre-owned" mark down.


----------



## TheDuke990

190$ ? I can't believe it. Why do I bought the A version ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 When I remember right the old basic version doesn't include ACSS gain modules and that was one reason why I chose version A. 
 I don't think that only cheaper caps and resistor can make that huge difference in price. I'm really confused (and a little bit disappointed) about this offer.


----------



## ckghagen

http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/pro/FUN/Version%20A.jpg
http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/pro/FUN/FUNba3.jpg

 Opened them up in each tab and flipping backward and forward
 And difficult to see the difference in price $ 140
 But I am in a good mood Probably Ordered one really soon


----------



## haloxt

If you want to know the difference, should send Kingwa an email asking. I am pretty sure there's some decent difference otherwise Kingwa would have discontinued version A by now considering the price difference. I also wonder if the use of different components has something to do with the current policies being passed in China to encourage the use of Chinese parts in domestic production.


----------



## avocado

This seems like a great deal!! Was considering going for the Sparrow, but this might have to be the choice.... Then again, the Sparrow is at the very top of my budget (not that this stops me - the 'budget' for my first headphone purchase was $40-50, ended up something $200...oops)

 Should I go for this or just hope that the Sparrow is good at the lower price point?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *avocado* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This seems like a great deal!! Was considering going for the Sparrow, but this might have to be the choice.... Then again, the Sparrow is at the very top of my budget (not that this stops me - the 'budget' for my first headphone purchase was $40-50, ended up something $200...oops)

 Should I go for this or just hope that the Sparrow is good at the lower price point?_

 

FUN looks like a better choice if the footprint works for you. The real advantage of the Sparrow is how small it is. IMO at least. I like the Sparrow's footprint for certain applications.


----------



## ak3r

Audio-gd FUN + ultrasone PRO 900=???
 Thoughts?


----------



## haloxt

What are your thoughts of the pro 900 out of your current source, too bassy, weak, sterile, etc? What mods have you done and would you do any mods if you haven't already? Imo what makes the pro 900 sing is a very neutral dac+amp otherwise you get fatigued from the repetitive coloration, and if you need it warmer, go with Kees cotton mod to dampen the cups. If pro 900 is too warm, I can advise some other mods, but few people should think it's too warm.


----------



## ckghagen

Someone who feels to do a little deeper analysis
 off difference between the Basic Version and Version A


----------



## ak3r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are your thoughts of the pro 900 out of your current source, too bassy, weak, sterile, etc? What mods have you done and would you do any mods if you haven't already? Imo what makes the pro 900 sing is a very neutral dac+amp otherwise you get fatigued from the repetitive coloration, and if you need it warmer, go with Kees cotton mod to dampen the cups. If pro 900 is too warm, I can advise some other mods, but few people should think it's too warm._

 

I only have sennheiser ie8 now and looking for a good dac for them(have a bad soundcard in my computer),you can use FUN as a dac if i have understand it right?!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 im gonna buy a pair of PRO 900 in 3-4weeks and wonder if audio-gd FUN is a good combination with them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So i dont have to buy a new amp directly!
 (English isnt my native language!)


----------



## haloxt

Yes, the FUN is a DAC+amp combo.

 Pro 900 and FUN should be good together except the bass might be too strong without some sort of modding, going by my experience of compass+neutral lm4562 opamp and compass+moon hdam (earth hdam+pro900 is a bad combination). I suggest you go ACSS and no special sound signature modules because the pro 900 really shines in neutral sound and details. And do not get the pro 900 unless you like a lot of bass, or you're willing to open the cups and do Kees' cotton mod. They're bulky headphones and have a diffuse sound many people dislike. So if possible you should demo an ultrasone headphone before buying.


----------



## ak3r

okey nice!

 Do you know the difference between the A-version and the basic version?
 Is it worth the difference in price between them?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (190usd vs 330usd)


----------



## Kayk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ak3r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okey nice!

 Do you know the difference between the A-version and the basic version?
 Is it worth the difference in price between them?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (190usd vs 330usd)_

 

The $330 uses better parts, and better modules. Read This, and then read it once again so you can understand all that information because it answers basically everything you want to know about it (in not so perfect English).


----------



## ak3r

okey but is it worth the difference in price if you look at the sound quality? (if someone have listen to the cheaper FUN)


----------



## bobxxxbob

I finally got my FUN yesterday and I have to say I'm impressed. Resolution is great and dynamics are absolutely awesome. And it definitely has enlarged the soundstage of my MS-1. And so far I have only tried the usb connection. I think my MS-1 has finally reached its limits. Guess I need to start planning on headphone upgrade. Good job Audio-Gd.


----------



## ak3r

I asked Kingwa about the sound quality difference and the answer was:

  Quote:


 The version A sound flavors is same with the basic version.

 The sound level slight different between them if applied the stock calbes.If for a newbie, maybe he can't easy to hear the different between two.

 If match a good power cable or digital cable, good source, and owner is a old hifi fans, maybe can hear the different, the version A is slight smooth and slight clear.

 The basic version even though applied lower parts than the version A, but the parts already better than other brands gears in the same price rang.

 Kingwa


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ak3r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okey but is it worth the difference in price if you look at the sound quality? (if someone have listen to the cheaper FUN)_

 

FUN ver A is relatively new, and FUN basic is even newer. I don't know anybody but KW that has both!


----------



## TheDuke990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ak3r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked Kingwa about the sound quality difference and the answer was:_

 

For me there are too many "maybe's". I think both version sounds very similar.


----------



## ulyses

I think price difference mainly comes from western and Japanese parts inport costs. Basic version looks very close to version A. Still, placebo effect works. If you buy a basic version, you probably can't get full satisfaction. That is the most problem in this wallet enemy hobby, ''thinking of something better there and you can reach a little push''.


----------



## TheDuke990

Please don't think I want to blame their doings. I own a Fun Version A and I'm really happy with them and I would rebuy the Fun without any doubts because audio-gd creates great hifi stuff.


----------



## ulyses

No, I don't. Just wanted to say my opinion. These are all toughs off course.


----------



## ckghagen

Now, things happen at audio-gd
 a new inexpensive version of the simpler Sparrow

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1
 Slightly cheaper and cheaper shipping
 Some reactions ?


----------



## muad

My fet output module and wolfson dac module arrived a couple of days ago. They're still burning in but I pulled the Wolfson already. It's one of those "makes any kind of quality mp3 sound good" kind of things... usually at the cost to detail and dynamics and separation etc. Also the sound stage is horrible.

 The fet output module with the AD1852 on the other hand sounds really good to me. I found the diamond module to sound very detailed but to me it lacked rhythm and flow. The fet module seems to have more body and is much more musical without losing any detail, separation or soundstage definition. Piano's and guitars sound more real to me. Im still under a hundred hours on the burnin so I'll keep you guys updated if it loses any definition and detail with burnin. <---- Im kind of afraid that it may happen.


----------



## Currawong

I found the FET output state pleasant at first, but after the diamond output stage has been used for a couple of hundred hours it looses its initial harshness.


----------



## muad

Quote:


 I found the FET output state pleasant at first, but after the diamond output stage has been used for a couple of hundred hours it looses its initial harshness. 
 

I noticed this too, it took 300+ hours before the diamond output lost it's harsh sound and the Fun proved to me that it was worth the money. Actually it was worth the money once I noticed how black the background is and how clean it sounded compared to anything I'd ever heard before. Im gonna reserve my overall impression of the fet output until ive got a few hundred hours on it. It sounds prefect right now, but with only 50 hours on it. With more time it may turn out to be too veiled/subdued/dark. Only time will tell. If this does turn out to be true then Im quite happy just living with the diamond output premanently. To be honest I ordered the fet output when the the diamond output still sounded too harsh to me. Ironically a few days later the sound settled and I kinda wished I'd saved my money...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Just a reminder for owners of A-gd gear...it takes at least 300 hours (or more) for the gear to settle down completely although individual stages may require more or less time. 

 Bottom line it's best to have at least 300 hours on any respective config/module combination before analyzing it's relative sound quality.

 Peete.


----------



## Mad Max

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ckghagen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...
 Some reactions ?_

 

You really want a reaction?


----------



## nth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a reminder for owners of A-gd gear...it takes at least 300 hours (or more) for the gear to settle down completely although individual stages may require more or less time._

 

300 hours of playback time, or just powered and turned on time?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_300 hours of playback time, or just powered and turned on time?_

 

Either is fine IIRC.

 Peete.


----------



## techenvy

pacific valve offers a supposed upgraded version saying they use, The Pacific Valve version uses the AD1852, DIR9001, and FET
 Output Buffers, it is also called version A. i wonder if it is just a premium, and same sa\\as the stock version??????? i do really like the versatility of the Fun and am super curious how this supposed upgraded version compares to the Dac 19 dsp, but i may just get some magic, i need input!


----------



## muad

For that kind of money, I'd get the dac19 instead. Unless you need the preamp or headphone amp section. The dac19 is an R2R dac, from whats been repeatedly said about it, it's in a different league entirely. Don't get me wrong the Fun is excellent and I have no regrets, but if I were to upgrade I'd get the dac19.


----------



## aFo

Anyone know if the fun can sufficiently drive a tough orthodynamic like the he5. I've been searching for a suitable amp/dac and was thinking of the nuforce. How would this amp compare, and how powerful is the headphone out? Thanks


----------



## VALIENTE

A while ago I have read comparing Compass (predecessor of Fun) and Nuforce HDP. He preferred the Compass overall but for DAC he favored the Nuforce.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aFo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know if the fun can sufficiently drive a tough orthodynamic like the he5. I've been searching for a suitable amp/dac and was thinking of the nuforce. How would this amp compare, and how powerful is the headphone out? Thanks_

 

I've done it and it didn't sound bad, but the EF-5 or a more powerful amp is better for them.


----------



## MARSHH

3 questions..

 How much does the Audio-GD FUN go for?

 Will this amp work with a set of 2 monitors?

 Am I better off purchasing a $200+ soundcard or a portable dac such as a NuForce?


----------



## techenvy

muad,
     thanks for the advice, at this point it s dac19 or benchmark, magic's inputs, especially digital passthru tos and coaxial split at same time, is still also very appealing,, bench small compact size may be a factor.   so im curious how the dac 19 compares to the benchmark dac 1, im sure benchmark usb sounds better??  but spdif? and i really wish you could swap out the dac 19 usb for a bnc connector? and still keep the coaxial?
   
  thanks


----------



## muad

I think your question's would be better off here...
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/483899/review-of-the-audio-gd-dac19dsp-c2-amp-the-acss-connection
   
  Also there are a few other threads that cover the dac19 vs other dacs. Everything I know is from what Ive read, whereas the above thread has people who could help you from experience.
   
  PS. WTH is up with my avatar... I never added one :0


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

I used the Fun mostly in the study room, so whenever not listening to DAC19/C2 at the main room. It is jarring at times to come back to listening to the Audio-Gd FUN after listening to the DAC19/C2. Granted, at their different price range, there will be notable differences. What strikes me is how the instruments and voices tended to sound digital on the FUN, especially pianos and violins compared to the DAC19/C2.
   
  Thinking of this, I asked Kingwa about his plans for the PCM1704UK module which he initially said might be produced in the future, the reply from him is this:
   
_The PCM1704 applied in FUN still can't compare to DAC19. But this upgrade is costly, maybe some users can't arrive the performance expect._
   
  Seems like this clarify the situation about any future plans for the PCM1704UK module. He also mentioned at the moment he has no plans to introduce any newer module for the FUN and that the D/A will be just the AD1852 and W8740.
   
  Who knows but perhaps in the future, there might be a new version of the FUN with PCM1704UK as a all-in-one Dac/Aamp/Pre-Amp unit, if that is even possible.
   
  After 400 hours on the stock configuration of the FUN version A, I find that it still sounded a bit harsh though it no longer as bright and piercing. I did played around with the jumpers on the AD1852 module and did slightly prefer the stock setting with  jumper towards the back of the unit as it seems to have more details and soundstage seem bigger. 
   
  I am thinking getting the FET module. Maybe to me the Earth, AD1852, ACSS and Diamond buffer modules tended to emphasize the sound as being more digital. What is the experience of those who have tried the FET module with the AD1852 and ACSS modules after the burning in? Did it become softer or or added a fullness to the sound?


----------



## Cya|\|

I've asked the same question in the zero dac thread, but i'd like to ask it here too: how would you compare the upgraded zero dac with the audio gd FUN version A?
  I'm talking about price difference, just about sound quality.


----------



## Currawong

rhythmic_impulse: The FET module has a somewhat rolled-off treble, which you may find balances things up a bit.  The harshness could partly be from the optical connection.  I was having all sorts of issues with the sound being rather "digital" from even quite good DACs and eventually determined that if I used coax from another source, the result was much better.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Thanks Currawong. I suppose it could be the optical connection. Though the result from the DAC19/C2 on the same type of optical cable was way much better. I did try coax but that was with a basic Canare LV-61s cable. That sounded firmer but somewhat thinnish sounding. I suppose experimenting with a better coax cable might help here. 
   
  The FET module: is the sonic signature similar to the one on the Compass? I thought the Compass has a bit more body though in terms of details and soundstage it loses to the FUN.


----------



## Currawong

The Compass sounds like the now discontinued B-mode neutral module.  The "soft" modes would probably be closer to the FET module probably, but I haven't tested this.


----------



## haloxt

rhythmic_impulse, I am guessing the harshness you notice in the FUN is not wholly due to the chips used in the FUN, but to your computer transport. There's lots of different things you could do to try to improve computer as transport, some free and some that cost money. First I'd suggest you get bit-perfect playback by using KS, WASAPI, or ASIO. There's some other free software tweaks after bit-perfect you could do to reduce power consumption and improve efficiency of playback, but most bit-perfect drivers sound acceptable to my ears. After this there are usb to spdif converters and changing hardware in the computer to reduce noise, but I'd do the free tweaks first before shelling out any money  especially since computer transport technology is constantly evolving at the moment.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





cya|\| said:


> I've asked the same question in the zero dac thread, but i'd like to ask it here too: how would you compare the upgraded zero dac with the audio gd FUN version A?
> I'm talking about price difference, just about sound quality.


 

 I have both the Zero Dac and the FUN, and there is simply no comparison (especially for the headphone amp section). Even version B is a large step up from the Zero DAC.
  However, it is not a fair comparison since the FUN costs a lot more than the Zero DAC. It would be intersting though to test the Sparrow Basic version vs. the Zero DAC.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





currawong said:


> rhythmic_impulse: The FET module has a somewhat rolled-off treble, which you may find balances things up a bit.  The harshness could partly be from the optical connection.  I was having all sorts of issues with the sound being rather "digital" from even quite good DACs and eventually determined that if I used coax from another source, the result was much better.


 

 I tried again using coaxial just now. What I did earlier was to tap the optical out into a canare RCA 75Ohm connector. Seeing how Kingwa wired the Coax connector to the mainboard in his gears, I redid the connection again, this time using the lead cables from Kingwa's HDAM extension lead. It seems that earlier I used a different lead and that affects the sound through Coax. Now it sound a lot better. The harshness is gone and the soundstage is quite expansive. It is much better now. I am using the Canare LV-61s for now but I did have a L-5CFB around so maybe I'll try that when I mod the Coax out from my Prodigy card and the FUN connectors to BNC later.

  
  Quote: 





haloxt said:


> rhythmic_impulse, I am guessing the harshness you notice in the FUN is not wholly due to the chips used in the FUN, but to your computer transport. There's lots of different things you could do to try to improve computer as transport, some free and some that cost money. First I'd suggest you get bit-perfect playback by using KS, WASAPI, or ASIO. There's some other free software tweaks after bit-perfect you could do to reduce power consumption and improve efficiency of playback, but most bit-perfect drivers sound acceptable to my ears. After this there are usb to spdif converters and changing hardware in the computer to reduce noise, but I'd do the free tweaks first before shelling out any money  especially since computer transport technology is constantly evolving at the moment.


 
   
  At present I am using ASIO output. The Prodigy HD2 drivers have native ASIO support so am playing either through Winamp or Foobar. I am thinking of getting a USB-SPDIF converter but as I mentioned above, it seems that the mod I done to get Coax out from the optical out seems to have improved things a lot now. Perhaps I'll test the set-up with the DAC19/C2 just to confirm if the mod I done initailly was causing the harshness.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





currawong said:


> rhythmic_impulse: The FET module has a somewhat rolled-off treble, which you may find balances things up a bit.  The harshness could partly be from the optical connection.  I was having all sorts of issues with the sound being rather "digital" from even quite good DACs and eventually determined that if I used coax from another source, the result was much better.


 
   
  I second Curra's observation. The COAX input is best.
   
  Peete.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> I second Curra's observation. The COAX input is best.
> 
> Peete.


 

 I'm using a canare cable now,  LV-61s. I thought of using a L-5CFB. Will this be good enough at this point? I just wanted something that is quite neutral. The Van Den Hul Optocoupler cable is actually better on the DAC19/C2.
   
  At the same time, I thought of changing the Coax input on the Fun to a BNC, reason being I like to keep the USB input as well without having to change to a BNC module and losing the USB input. I thought there shouldn't be any much difference between the Coax input and the BNC module other than tighter Ohm specs but I see a whole bunch of caps and crystal on the module.


----------



## seekadds

i'm thinking of replacing my mav audio tubemagic d1 with a FUN because i have recently started to notice a hiss/noise even at normal volume levels with my Ultrasone pro 750. does anyone use the FUN with these cans, and can provide me with any advice or feedback?
   
  i tried to email audio gd, but their website was down for a bit, and they have been slow to respond.


----------



## Cya|\|

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> I have both the Zero Dac and the FUN, and there is simply no comparison (especially for the headphone amp section). Even version B is a large step up from the Zero DAC.
> However, it is not a fair comparison since the FUN costs a lot more than the Zero DAC. It would be intersting though to test the Sparrow Basic version vs. the Zero DAC.


 

 Zero dac 2009 version + opamp upgrade?


----------



## Currawong

Cyan: The basic design of the Zero hasn't changed in the 2009 version.  There's a limit to what it's physically possible to manufacture for any amount of money.  A HDAM can't overcome the limits of the design.


----------



## EraserXIV

what benefit does the BNC module have over the typical RCA Coax? has anyone tested this out or have any speculations?
   
  why is it necessary to replace the whole USB module with a BNC module? can't kingwa just replace the RCA connector with a BNC one? what purpose do all those extra caps serve on the BNC module?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> I'm using a canare cable now,  LV-61s. I thought of using a L-5CFB. Will this be good enough at this point? I just wanted something that is quite neutral. The Van Den Hul Optocoupler cable is actually better on the DAC19/C2.
> 
> At the same time, I thought of changing the Coax input on the Fun to a BNC, reason being I like to keep the USB input as well without having to change to a BNC module and losing the USB input. I thought there shouldn't be any much difference between the Coax input and the BNC module other than tighter Ohm specs but I see a whole bunch of caps and crystal on the module.


 

 BNC is a better match in terms of impedance but I agree with you somewhat that the difference between a decent COAX and the BNC option is down to preference. I would imagine the aural results may or may not become apparent upon first listen. I myself use a cheap Monster Cable IDL-100 COAX cable (got it on sale a few years back) that seems to be better than any of my other RCA digital IC's (MSB, Better Cables Silver Serpant, Canare RCA, ). I think for entry level gear (within the A-gd line-up anyway) the actual differences may be down to computer transport variables like quality of sound card (and it's drivers), the OS used ( I found Vsita/Win7 far superior to XP), the type of software player and it's resulting wrapper (WASAPI/ASIO etc) and of course the cable interface quality.
   
  If I had a choice I would go with BNC however and I may do just that once I figure out how to add a BNC header to my Auzen Prelude SC. BNC used with the RE1/CD7 is clearly a step up over RCA. As always YMMV and every little positive step forward begins to add up in the long run.

  
  Quote: 





currawong said:


> Cyan: The basic design of the Zero hasn't changed in the 2009 version.  There's a limit to what it's physically possible to manufacture for any amount of money.  A HDAM can't overcome the limits of the design.


 


 This is mostly correct. Some layout changes optimized the circuit somewhat and some additional parts upgrades over the previous rev unit did help some but the 2009 Zero is still in need of an overhaul (the FrankenZERO kit does wonders here, no plug intended) in order to bring it up to an acceptable performance level.
  
  Quote: 





eraserxiv said:


> what benefit does the BNC module have over the typical RCA Coax? has anyone tested this out or have any speculations?
> 
> why is it necessary to replace the whole USB module with a BNC module? can't kingwa just replace the RCA connector with a BNC one? what purpose do all those extra caps serve on the BNC module?


 
   
  The USB pathway is entuirely different compared to the COAX input...in order to add the BNC module the USB circuitry has to be removed and the proper assembly (similar to the RCA DIR9001 module wired into the RCA input) has to be duplicated. The BNC module has it's own receiver chip/clock can just like the COAX module. I hope that helped.
   
  Peete.


----------



## les_garten

I think he's right though, no reason you couldn't retain the USB and swap out the RCA for a BNC connector.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> I think he's right though, no reason you couldn't retain the USB and swap out the RCA for a BNC connector.


 

 Agreed Les, that option is perfectly viable and preferable if you don't need the RCA COAX input. It's also pretty easy to do and cheap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> Agreed Les, that option is perfectly viable and preferable if you don't need the RCA COAX input. It's also pretty easy to do and cheap
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Just a bigger hole to drill maybe.


----------



## les_garten

On an OT note.
   
  How are you guys dealing with the fact that notifications don't take you to the most recent post that you have read in a thread?


----------



## EraserXIV

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> I think he's right though, no reason you couldn't retain the USB and swap out the RCA for a BNC connector.


 

 Yeah that's exactly what i was thinking of doing.

  


pricklely peete said:


> The USB pathway is entuirely different compared to the COAX input...in order to add the BNC module the USB circuitry has to be removed and the proper assembly (similar to the RCA DIR9001 module wired into the RCA input) has to be duplicated. The BNC module has it's own receiver chip/clock can just like the COAX module. I hope that helped.


 

 Ah that clears it up. The USB was never part of the Coax module so I'm guessing the BNC module is pretty much a clone of the original Coax module, just with a BNC input instead of RCA.


----------



## EraserXIV

would an RCA to BNC adapter achieve the same results as replacing the entire RCA input with a BNC input? or is there some sort of disadvantage of doing it with this approach?


----------



## Zoltan99

I just ordered a Fun basic with USB.  Which input option is the best and what decently priced cable is good as well?


----------



## les_garten

That wouldn't accomplish much.  Maybe a little.  You're trying to make a clean 75 Ohm impedance connection.  If there is an RCA connector in the Mix, you're screwed.  Adding an extra connector and interface is not usually a great solution.  KW told me not to do that on my REF1.  Said I would be better off just going straight RCA, rather than adding the adapter.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> That wouldn't accomplish much.  Maybe a little.  You're trying to make a clean 75 Ohm impedance connection.  If there is an RCA connector in the Mix, you're screwed.  Adding an extra connector and interface is not usually a great solution.  KW told me not to do that on my REF1.  Said I would be better off just going straight RCA, rather than adding the adapter.


 

 He indeed told me the same when I asked him about using BNC cable with adapter on the FUN RCA input when the BNC module didn't exist before.


----------



## Pacha

I had the opportunity today to try the PCM1704 with the FUN,
   
  I went with my Beyer T1 to a shop in Paris where they have the Naim DAC, using the Burr-Brown chip.
  I tested the Naim DAC in line in of my Audio-gd FUN, hence using the amp of the FUN and ACSS gain stage, and bypassing the built-in DAC AD1852. Very high end interconnects were used on the DAC and cd player, except with my Audio-gd FUN for which I used my Audio-gd exclusive power cable which sounds good but is not expensive at $75 (some found it to be as good as $1000 power cords though).
   
  Well, to be honest I wasn't floored with the SQ, maybe the amp of the FUN is not good enough, but I didn't try with another amp in the end. All what I can say is that there were many improvements, but not the huge leap ahead I would have expected over the FUN.
  But these improvements are worth the upgrade to the PCM1704 chip based DAC19DSP (500€) for me, but certainly not to the Naim at 2500€, way overpriced for the difference of SQ for me.
  Anyway, things were clearly better : a lot more bass depth and definition, that was the most striking "feature", no more sibilance nor harshness, faster than AD1852, a bit more detail, a bit more airiness and 3D but not a huge difference in this respect. No more unpleasant treble peak on female voices or loud passages, really far less ear compression, way better than the AD1852 here, so that's what I'm looking for. A warmer sound, far more analogical than the AD1852, and closer to the real sound of the instruments.
  If the "all ACSS" setup of the DAC19DSP and C2 improves 3D with the already very nice sound I had with the Naim DAC, then it's really interesting.
  I'm definitely buying the DAC19DSP and C2 as soon as I can.


----------



## Pacha

By the way,
   
  power cable was this one
http://www.stealthaudiocables.com/products/m7000.htm
   
  and transports, that was these :
http://www.soundstage.com/equipment/synergistic_research_tesla_apex.htm
   
  CDP was this one :
http://www.acousticgallery.fr/son/lecteurs-cd/lecteurs-cd/cd-one
   
  I must say that these prices are... well, not in my budget lol
  I will never ever spend 10 000€ on such a setup to hear the small improvements I heard even if they are obvious and easily audible.
   
  As slim.a said in his review of the FUN, "If I didn’t have a better DAC to compare it with, it would be hard to find weaknesses listening to the FUN alone."
  I am now even more interested by the DAC19DSP as I want to hear improvements from the full ACSS setup also, and because it is damn cheap for the SQ and said to sound as good as other DACs at prices rated 3 to 10 times higher. I won't personally be satisfied enough with the Naim DAC (not speaking about the rest of their setup) to have a clear conscience having spent so much money.
  Anyway, I'm now even more believing that the FUN is bang for the bucks and that Kingwa know that he's doing.


----------



## slim.a

Hi Pacha,
   
  Thanks for sharing your impressions.
   
  Your findings somehow remind me of a personal experience. I was pretty satisfied with my dac19mk3 but never realized how good it was for the money until I compared it directly to 2 dacs costing 3000€. The dac19mk3 was on par with one of them and totally outperformed the second one (Audiomat Tempo 2.6).
   
  The reason why Audio-gd equipment provides excellent value for the money is pretty simple. Kingwa is an excellent designer (he won some audio prizes I believe) and he is not afraid to trust his ears. He has both excellent engineering and listening skills (it sounds simple but it doesn't happen very often). Also, the fact that Audio-gd is located in China helps reducing mannufacturing costs. The only thing they could/should work is the exterior design of their equipment. While their equipment look OK, you don't get the impression of looking at a "jewlery" product like it is the case with some European/American mannufactured products.


----------



## Pacha

Well that was what I though when I saw the expression of the vendor at the shop, when I showed my FUN to connect to the Naim DAC, the guy was almost saying to himself "gosh, what is that crap?". I brought my Audio-gd exclusive power cord, and as a nice mark of trust he checked if the cable was OK with a tester before plugging it to his setup lol.
   
  I personally don't think that Audio-gd stuff looks cheap, it doesn't look jewlery for sure like very high priced tube amps but at least the box isn't empty to the half just to give the impression of serious gear while there nothing than a small motherboard inside with a huge box as others frequently do. Size is compact to the max for each Audio-gd gear, all the space is used, finish is brilliant and all the components show well studied layout and are standing at attention. Kingwa seriously know what he's doing, definitely, and I trust his knowledge and design now even more. Hopefully he's here to talk with his customers about new implementations, technical issues, tweaks, and can keep alive the close talk between enthusiasts and propose kind of head-crafted gear at a decent value compared to the reputed brands.


----------



## Zoltan99

How long does it usually take to ship the Fun?


----------



## Currawong

How many times is "always"?


----------



## Pacha

If some here are interested in more info about the FUN vs DAC19DSP/C2, I wrote a few things in the review thread of the latter :
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/483899/review-of-the-audio-gd-dac19dsp-c2-amp-the-acss-connection/165#post_6666926


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





muad said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> I found the FET output state pleasant at first, but after the diamond output stage has been used for a couple of hundred hours it looses its initial harshness.
> ...


 
   
  @muad:
   
  How is the FET module now? Does it still sound as good as when it initially arrived? I am thinking of getting the FET module as I find the Diamond buffer less suitable for me through the HD600. After about 500 hours, it has lost some of its harshness I initially complained about but there are times especially when listening to pianos or violins, I sense a bit of flatness in the reproduction.
   
  If the FET module still sound as good and don't turn dark, blur, less detail, but tonally more bodied, I might want to get it.


----------



## muad

I wouldn't call it dark, it doesn't sound recessed and the details are still present! I think the tonal changes are the biggest difference compared to the diamond output. The music is more full, with a very slight V in the eq compared to the diamond. Im not sure if the diamond would be considered flat. I prefer the diamond overall but thats just a preference. Especially since some of my favourite bands are recorded like the mike was behind a pillow.... muse, coldplay etc.    With my speakers the harshness kind of teeters on the edge of harshness but doesn't hurt or fatigue my ears. If your cans were forward/bright or if you prefer a smoother more musical sound then the fet may be for you. Im not sure how the Allesandro MS-1's sound compared to the HD600. I just ordered a pair (my first headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )  So if you can wait I can give you another impression on the modules, since Ive only listened to them with my Audioengine A5's so far.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





muad said:


> I wouldn't call it dark, it doesn't sound recessed and the details are still present! I think the tonal changes are the biggest difference compared to the diamond output. The music is more full, with a very slight V in the eq compared to the diamond. Im not sure if the diamond would be considered flat. I prefer the diamond overall but thats just a preference. Especially since some of my favourite bands are recorded like the mike was behind a pillow.... muse, coldplay etc.    With my speakers the harshness kind of teeters on the edge of harshness but doesn't hurt or fatigue my ears. If your cans were forward/bright or if you prefer a smoother more musical sound then the fet may be for you. Im not sure how the Allesandro MS-1's sound compared to the HD600. I just ordered a pair (my first headphones
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That is what I suppose is my impression of the diamond module on my set-up. Not harsh, but tethering on the edge. Still, it would be interesting to hear your further impressions of the FET modules with your new set of cans 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

What you describe is the hallmark of a sigma delta based DAC rhythmic _ impulse. The FET module may mitigate some of that string/piano harshness but it won't address the underlying cause of it. The amp is simply amplifying the signal it is sent.
   
  Peete.


----------



## muad

Lol, I just switched back to fet output module... Its not bad but the base is overpowering. I had to turn off my sub. The base is muddier (much less punchy) and overpowering. Ill let it burn in until my headphones arrive and see what happens....


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

@Prickly Peete
   
  I tend to agree to that view about the sigma - delta DACs. Perhaps the ACSS and Diamond modules are so exceptionally transparent that the sonic characteristics of the DAC are so amplified that to me, and my set-up, there's some element of artificiality in the sound noticeable with piano, violins and cymbals, which is unpleasant for me. There's not much I suppose I can do until either I switch to a FET module pending muad's feedback or there's a  PCM1704UK DAC module from Kingwa (though that's highly unlikely after I asked him about it).
   
  I have also tried switching the jumpers on the DA1852 module as discussed in this forum. I am a bit confused as to which was the setting suggested by Kingwa to slim.a.
   
  My unit's default setting is 2 X Oversampling as shown below. Is it the 4 x Oversampling jumper that Kingwa suggested slim.a tried and which slim.a fseem to prefer to default setting?


----------



## Currawong

You might switch to the Wolfson DAC module as well.  It's slightly less aggressive than the AD1852, without being as distinctly tonally different as the FET module.  Try changing the jumper first though.  You might also try one of the "soft" jumper settings. As a note, in the past I tended to find optical connections to be a bit harsher sounding with some DACs, even with the same VDH Optocoupler as you have.


----------



## haloxt

rhythmic_impulse, I get the feeling the pcm1704uk requires a lot of power filtering to be fully utilized. During last winter everybody in my state was staying home and polluting my power with their heaters and such, and my dac19mk3 sounded rather directionless, or with less drive in the music. Was less obvious with my compass which didn't use pcm1704uk, but of course compass didn't have quite the same dynamic range as the dac19mk3.


----------



## Pacha

Currawong, what do you think of your HD800 compared to the 404? Or maybe T1 if you tried it?
   
  Sorry for off-topic.


----------



## anoobis

Please don't flame me if I've missed the answer, I have read through dozens of pages 
   
  First off, hopefully an easy technical one. If I were to buy a basic FUN and a USB module, would that work? I.e., is there somewhere for the module to fit and for the USB connector in the casing?
   
  Of course, that could be hypothetical given the current status of chips...
   
  Secondly, a very subjective question but probably the best way to address the many thoughts and options buzzing around my head. If the FUN were a standalone amp only, would it be worth the price? Obviously this is a matter of opinion, so I'd appreciate more than a monosyllabic reply  FWIW, I hope to soon finally get my CKKIII into a robust case: the 'need' for the amp in the FUN would then become less critical and it would have to be pretty special for me to warrant the combo purchase.
   
  Cheers.


----------



## tongson

Anybody tried WM8740 + SUN?
   
  WM8740 + EARTH is too soft/warm for me. My HD600 sounded like excrement with that combo.


----------



## muad

Thats an accurate statement. I was kinda curious myself. I was also wondering what the fet output would sound like with a sun opa. Since audio-gd's U.S. dealer sells their upgraded version with that combination...
  Quote: 





> Anybody tried WM8740 + SUN?
> 
> WM8740 + EARTH is too soft/warm for me. My HD600 sounded like excrement with that combo.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





muad said:


> Thats an accurate statement. I was kinda curious myself. I was also wondering what the fet output would sound like with a sun opa. Since audio-gd's U.S. dealer sells their upgraded version with that combination...


 

 I tried it briefly and didn't like it, so I'm wondering how they came about the idea to use that combination.
   
  tongson: Did you choose the 8740 over the 1852?  If you feel the HD-600s are too dark, then you need some Grados instead I reckon.


----------



## Zoltan99

I just got my fun, seems nice so far.  But I have a question,  the Gain switch on the front of the unitm seems to be off when compressed and on when depressed, is this normal?


----------



## TheDuke990

Quote: 





zoltan99 said:


> I just got my fun, seems nice so far.  But I have a question,  the Gain switch on the front of the unitm seems to be off when compressed and on when depressed, is this normal?


 


 Yes this is normal.


----------



## TheDuke990

Quote: 





zoltan99 said:


> I just got my fun, seems nice so far.  But I have a question,  the Gain switch on the front of the unitm seems to be off when compressed and on when depressed, is this normal?


 


 Yes this is normal.


----------



## TheDuke990

Sorry for double posting. It is possible to delete a post ?


----------



## Zoltan99

I noticed that my ears hurt a lot with the Fun compared to my onboard sound card.  I am also getting slight headache's, what do ya think this could be?  The sound is clear and vibrant, and I am not setting it too loud.


----------



## haloxt

Probably too much hyperactive treble for you. It would likely tone down with more burn-in, maybe a few days left on, but it should be near fully burned-in with 2-3 weeks of being left on.


----------



## Zoltan99

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Probably too much hyperactive treble for you. It would likely tone down with more burn-in, maybe a few days left on, but it should be near fully burned-in with 2-3 weeks of being left on.


 

 Does changing the internal jumpers for sound flavor have anything to do with this?  I had a similair experience when I switched headphones from the Audio-Technica ATH0-A500 to A700.
   
   
  Also why does burn in ease this treble and why does it degrade?


----------



## haloxt

Different jumper settings may be a good idea, listening fatigue can have very subtle causes. I suggest going to soft 2 setting (soft 1 may be too similar to neutral). Then after 200 hours of using it, go back to neutral and see if it still causes fatigue to you. Let us know if soft 2 is less fatiguing, I doubt you're the only person who thinks neutral is too bright (with certain headphones).


----------



## Zoltan99

Even soft 3 is pretty bright.  Maybe il keep letting it burn in, and give my ears a rest overnight.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Soft 3 is too bright ? What headphones are you using and what source material (bit rate etc) ? Something ain't right...
   
  Peete.


----------



## tongson

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I tried it briefly and didn't like it, so I'm wondering how they came about the idea to use that combination.
> 
> tongson: Did you choose the 8740 over the 1852?  If you feel the HD-600s are too dark, then you need some Grados instead I reckon.


 

 I have both DACs. Naw I really don't like the Grado 'sound' after having owned and listening extensively to several models. FWIW my HD600(APSv3) is 'brighter' than an HF2.
   
  Just asking around maybe someone tried the 8740+SUN combo. I'd like to minimize purchases


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





tongson said:


> I have both DACs. Naw I really don't like the Grado 'sound' after having owned and listening extensively to several models. FWIW my HD600(APSv3) is 'brighter' than an HF2.
> 
> Just asking around maybe someone tried the 8740+SUN combo. I'd like to minimize purchases


 
  I listened to that Combo.  The Sun seems pushed in the treble and the bass compared to the earth.  Way too bright for me.  I keep it around just as a test piece but I don't like it.  Much brighter than the earth.  If you have dull canz, like maybe HD 650s (IMHO), it may help.  The brightness feels strident and harsh pretty quick to me though.
   
  n.b.  Sun might be "FUN" for sizzling guitar riffs!


----------



## tongson

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> I listened to that Combo.  The Sun seems pushed in the treble and the bass compared to the earth.  Way too bright for me.  I keep it around just as a test piece but I don't like it.  Much brighter than the earth.  If you have dull canz, like maybe HD 650s (IMHO), it may help.  The brightness feels strident and harsh pretty quick to me though.
> 
> n.b.  Sun might be "FUN" for sizzling guitar riffs!


 
   
  Ah really SUN brings out the treble from the 8740? 8740+EARTH definitely was dull using both my Pro900 and HD600(APSv3).


----------



## Zoltan99

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> Soft 3 is too bright ? What headphones are you using and what source material (bit rate etc) ? Something ain't right...
> 
> Peete.


 
  Thanks for responding.  I am using AudioTechnica ATH-A700 cans.  Source material is all flac encoded lossless, mostly 90's rock and metalcore stuff. 
   
  Most songs tend to have a Bit Depth of 16, 2 channels and a sample rate of 44100Hz, Bit rate is usually above 850 kbps though mostly around 1066.  But I thought Bit Rate didn't matter much for lossless?. 

  
  I really cannot hear the difference between Neutral and Soft 3.  I keep getting headaches and my ear drums hurt when and after listing.


----------



## muad

I didn't notice much difference in the soft settings. I found if you switch the jumper on the dac module from the front(stock for mine) to the back, it takes the edge off the highs without affecting the details or sq.  Someone posted a picture of this on the previous page.... set it to the same as the picture.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

I had a similar experience to Zoltan99 and tongson where I found the FUN harsh to my ears on my set-up with a HD600 and Cardas cable, to the extent that I was thinking of getting the FET output module to try if it may help to mitigate the harshness I hear.
   
  I tried switching the jumpers on the DA1852 module to 4 x Oversampling mode as well as the soft settings and it help a little bit with the sound.
   
  At the same time, a comment from haloxt about the power in his area affecting DAC9mk3 and the PCM1704 chipset got me to check the entire chain in my electrical supply. I was even using different power cords to see if it may help with the sound issues I was having.
   
  Two of the power cables actually had the polarity wired differently. I switched that and plugged them to a different power outlet from the one I was previously using. This has somehow help to alleviate the fizziness in the upper treble I was hearing and the harshness seems to have been minimize to the extent that I thought the FUN is now sounding much more enjoyable and the sound signature is now closer to neutral.
   
  Because of this, I am wondering if I need to get the FET module now, pending muad's feedback.
   
  As for changing the Optocoupler optical cable to a coax as suggested by Currawong, I am waiting for a M2Tech hiface from a friend to try it out on the Fun and see if it will make a further difference. I am not sure what kind of effect this might have since I will be using Canare coaxial cables made from LV61s (stranded copper) and L5CFB (single copper). The Coax input on the Fun was modded to a BNC canare connector.


----------



## muad

Im still waiting for the ms-1     I thought they'd be here by now....


----------



## Zoltan99

Quote: 





muad said:


> I didn't notice much difference in the soft settings. I found if you switch the jumper on the dac module from the front(stock for mine) to the back, it takes the edge off the highs without affecting the details or sq.  Someone posted a picture of this on the previous page.... set it to the same as the picture.


 

 Ive looked though 2x, can you link me?


----------



## muad

Oops sorry it was 2 pages ago.   The picture below is the same as I have it setup on my DA1852 module. For me it came stock on the lower jumper position and I moved it to the top jumper setting. Using the 4x oversampling really smoothed things out for me. Ive been messing with it again lately to see if I could squeeze some more SQ/details out of it but for me it's not listenable. Worth a shot.... good luck!


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

FUN now has 24bit/96Khz USB input using a TE7022 as the default USB module for Version A.  Just read on the Audio-Gd FUN page on Kingwa's site. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Those of us who got the earlier models are stuck with 16bit/48Khz USB input 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Wonder if there's an upgrade for us. And I recently ordered an M2Tech Hiface just so I can use them from my MacBook Pro!


----------



## tongson

Yeah also saw it from the Product page. We'd have to buy ($30) the USB module if want ours upgraded? Bummer


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> FUN now has 24bit/96Khz USB input using a TE7022 as the default USB module for Version A.  Just read on the Audio-Gd FUN page on Kingwa's site.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The whole point of the FUN was that it could be upgraded later by adding new modules down the road without having to buy a whole new unit. I have just contacted Kingwa this morning (to ask questions about their power filters) and he told me that the 24/96 usb module can be acquired for $30.

 I believe that the hiface + Coax + DIR9001 is still a better solution than going straight from usb to the FUN because of the galvanic isolation and the jitter reduction provided by the Hiface/coax input. So it probably not a total loss that you got the hiface.
  
  Quote: 





tongson said:


> Yeah also saw it from the Product page. We'd have to buy ($30) the USB module if want ours upgraded? Bummer


 

 I believe that $30 is cheap for such an evolution path. The owners of the higher end DACs (dac19, Ref5) don't have that flexibility


----------



## tongson

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> ...
> I believe that $30 is cheap for such an evolution path. The owners of the higher end DACs (dac19, Ref5) don't have that flexibility


 

 Ah really, DAC19 and REF5 doesn't have upgradeable USB modules.
   
  If you get one for the FUN please let us know if you notice any audible improvements or differences when playing standard 16/44 audio CD / files. Thanks!


----------



## Mad Max

*wrong thread*


----------



## superchan

i can not wait for you guys compare Hiface vs TE7022 Modules  
but if you buy now a DAC19 and REF5 there are now with the upgrade version i am sure if you got little soldering skils its also easy to replace that on those two higher divice ??


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





superchan said:


> i can not wait for you guys compare Hiface vs TE7022 Modules


 

 I will report back my findings on the TE7022 module vs. my modified Hiface once I receive the unit.


----------



## muad

Just curious, has anyone tried the Fun with AKG K701's? Does the amp do the phones justice? Im quite impressed with the detail of the MS-1 but i don't fin them to be very level. I think for a little bit more I could do better.


----------



## Mad Max

You'll probably find the answer in the previous pages.


----------



## muad

I did, there wasn't much said about it other than it sounded better than the K701's out of the mini jack on his laptop....


----------



## Mad Max

Oh, lol. Well, the FUN's predecessor, the Compass, was said to do well with K701, so the FUN should do even better.
  Then in the Sparrow thread, someone posted that the Sparrow has the same specs as the FUN according to Kingwa, so neither should have any trouble with those AKGs.
  He did design all three with a pair of K701's as test 'phones, among others. Have you even checked the Augio-gd page?


----------



## muad

Yeah I know the picture you speak of, but it did nothing to enlighten me on the way AKG's sound with the Fun... I still want impressions based of someones experiences before I drop a couple of bills... especially when the K701 are notoriously hard to drive.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





muad said:


> Yeah I know the picture you speak of, but it did nothing to enlighten me on the way AKG's sound with the Fun... I still want impressions based of someones experiences before I drop a couple of bills... especially when the K701 are notoriously hard to drive.


 

 Looking at the specs of the FUN, it outputs 3.5watts at 25ohms which would make it around 1.5watts at 62 ohms (which is the impedance of the AKG). It has even more power than the C2 which is limited to 1 watt at 60 ohms. The difference is that the FUN operates in class A/B and the C2 in class A. (See the specs page here)
   
  I have tried the FUN very shortly with the K702 and it drove them fine. They definitely won't extract 100% of their performance but they will probably do a better job than many entry level headphone amps that are far more limited in power delivery.


----------



## muad

Thanks slim.a, do you remember if they sounded very thin or boring? The Fun with opa earth isn't exactly warm sounding and the K70x series isn't known for it's warmth either. I could always throw the fet module in there if I don't like the sound but then my  speakers will sound too warm.


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





muad said:


> Thanks slim.a, do you remember if they sounded very thin or boring? The Fun with opa earth isn't exactly warm sounding and the K70x series isn't known for it's warmth either. I could always throw the fet module in there if I don't like the sound but then my  speakers will sound too warm.


 

 To be honest, I don't remember well enough to give you detailed impressions. But from memory, I would say that it was definitely not thin. I tried once the K701 in a store with a Furman headphone amp and it sounded horribly thin.
  If I were you, I would first try the K70x with the Diamond module and see how it sounds. The Fet module is thicker and tonally denser than the Diamond module. With the silver cabled HD650, I find that both modules have their appeal. With the K70x, which is leaner than the HD650, the Fet module might be the better choice. Kingwa can probably give you more insight in this matter (he has tested the FUN with the K701).


----------



## muad

Thats a good idea, I'll get kingwas opinion
   
  thanks


----------



## Mad Max

What the hell? So how much current and voltage do they need minimum to sound their very best?
  I'm considering giving them a try later.


----------



## muad

I don't presonally think they'll be a drive issue. I think that maybe the version A with opa earth will sound sterile. This is just a hunch though.  I wouldn't call the Fun warm and supposedly the K701's aren't warm either so...
   
  Im trying to decide between the k701's or K501's.


----------



## Mad Max

Will you game with the FUN?
  I think you'll like the bassier AD797BR on a dual-soic-to-dip adapter better. You could also go 2x LT1363CN8 on a socketed dual-to-single dip adapter (will show off 701's detail resolution).
   
  You'll probably want the mosfet modules if you think version A with Earth will sound sterile, though I can't see why it would sound sterile. Neutral =/= sterile, and even if that is what you are accustomed to, Earth isn't all that neutral anyway, but it's your best choice if you are going to be gaming as well.


----------



## muad

I found every ic opamp to be noisy compared to the opa earth. I found the opa earth more crisp and clean. The problem is I need the sound signature to work with my speakers and my headphones... so that's where things get comlex for me. This would be much easier if I only used my fun for headphones.
   
  BTW I don't find the opa earth sterile. I think it's not warm or cold. But paired with something that some people have called boring may cause an issue with some recordings.


----------



## Mad Max

Every? I use ADA4627-1BR in the Compass - my favorite. Lower noise floor, smoother, cleaner, more neutral and overall puts Earth to shame except in soundstage. LT1363 and 1357 are also great but require _really_ clean power, and the FUN will have an easier time providing that than the Compass.
  Earth sucks a bit.


----------



## muad

I really didn't like the IC in the fun, no matter what I did opamp/module wise I always cam back to the earth with the stock version A setup. During burn in the other setups helped take the edge and harshness away. But once burning in was done the other setups were blurry, unbalanced, too smooth, less detailed, less dynamic.  I have to reroll opamps/modules once I get a set of cans Im happy with. The MS-1 Im using now is too warm to use anything but the opa earth with stock version a components. <--- I really like this sound and wouldn't wanna change the dac/amp configuration to match a set of cans....


----------



## bobxxxbob

I think Fun with opa moon is an excellent match with 701. However I personally liked the stock opa better with MS1. Stock opa and 701 were a bit thin sounding system. Moon adds whole lot of body to the sound. But I don't think moon is a "one size fits all" solution.


----------



## muad

Great thanks for the input!     I have an opa moon, I'll give it a shot once I get a pair of k701.


----------



## bobxxxbob

Is your moon burned in properly? For the 1st week my moon was terrible. The bass was bloated the overall resolution was something that I would expect to hear from a mobile phone headphone output. I have now kept the Fun power on for over 3 weeks. However I have not noticed any improvement after the first week.


----------



## muad

Yeah I burned it in before I burned in my opa earth... so I should be good    I think the moon would do a better job smoothing stuff out compared to me using the fet module. I liked the moon   but not so much the fet module...  I guess I'll know soon enough.


----------



## k-maru

Nice review!


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





slim.a said:


> I will report back my findings on the TE7022 module vs. my modified Hiface once I receive the unit.


 

 Looking forward to your impressions. I'm beginning to think the TE7022 is an attractive option for my FUN since I am using the FUN in my work studio. I have the USB ASIO driver so maybe it can be used for the USB input as well.


----------



## Steph86

Hi i'm new to this thread, i'm thinking of buying one of these to replace my modded zero dac as i recently bought a new computer which doesn't have optical, so i need something with usb input.  I just wanted to know what other alternatives there are out there?  I don't mind two separate units, one for dac and one for amp.  I already have a darkvoice 332 but it gets hot in the summer so would like an alternative.  I have about £300 to spend. DIY is also an option!!


----------



## saitoh

Still reading through the pages but I thought I'd ask about the custom volume gain (mentioned over in the D2000/Fun thread).
   
  I'm interested in getting a reduced gain so that I can listen at quiet levels and get above the channel imballance. Currently using an ibasso D10 with my two sets and on both I have to digitally attenuate the signal so I can turn the amp up to just past 9:00 (about where the imballance ends) when using *both* of my headphones. It was mentioned that I could request a special gain structure of some sort to remedy this on the FUN. Is there anything specific I should ask for? The folks at audio-gd said they would get back to me sometime later this week, didn't know if there was some special terminology that I should be using or specific values of my headphones I should provide (one person mentioned the db/mW value). Any information is appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## tink97

Hello all.  Ok so i have new to the audiophile, but for the last 6 months I have been buying some decent gear and I have a question about the FUN sound flavor settings?  I have read the posts and looked on the Audio GD website but i dont understand how to set the jumpers to soft 1,2, or 3?  Do you switch them like a light switch?  or is there like a cap you put on it?  Sorry for this simple question..heh still really new to these types of equipment.  I am using AKG 601s and the Fun seems a little harsh, i am still in the process of burning it in though. I am using the Earth Opamp. Any help that anyone can give would be very appreciated.


----------



## muad

To saitoh: Using the Fun with the K702's I get the volume to about 10-11oclock with the low gain switch on. I can get to very low listening levels and stay above the channel imbalance zone.
   
  To Tink97: I think everyone who had the Fun had the same problem initially. It is harsh for a looong time. Expect about 300hours before the sound smooths itself out. I personally didn't notice much change from using the soft settings. I got much better results from changing the jumper on the dac module. Just pull the little black jumper cap off the d/a module and make it like the one in the pic


----------



## tink97

Thank you Muad, I just did what you said and it did indeed help get rid of some harshness, and yeah I am stilling burning this bad boy heh.   LOL and on another note you also explained what those little black caps were that came with the FUN, I thought they were junk so I threw away 2 of them awhile back, so i only have two of them rofl.  Live and learn I say, Everyone have a good day


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

I agree with Muad about the FUN taking quite some time to settle in. I had mine for about 2 months and it is now actually quite settled in the sound. The harshness was present even after more than 300 hours of burning in. I suspect that it probably took about a month for my unit to settle, despite running it 24/7 with a few power down cycle in between.
   
  @slim.a, anyword about the new 24/96 module for the USB replacement? I was going to order one for my unit as I used the FUN to do some monitoring and initial mix on my work station until I read on the DAC-19 thread about kunalraiker having configuration issues with the chip in his DAC-19. It would be good to hear your impressions about this.


----------



## saitoh

Quote: 





muad said:


> To saitoh: Using the Fun with the K702's I get the volume to about 10-11oclock with the low gain switch on. I can get to very low listening levels and stay above the channel imbalance zone.


 


 As I read it, the K702s are 105 dB/V compared to my UM3X which is 124 db. I have to digitally attenuate the signal before it gets to my D10 and the gain on the D10 isn't anything special. I have to as well (but not as often) for my Denon 7000s and those are 108. So either I listen at quieter levels, or the D10's imballance is much higher (or that 3db difference is enough, don't know).


----------



## slim.a

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> I agree with Muad about the FUN taking quite some time to settle in. I had mine for about 2 months and it is now actually quite settled in the sound. The harshness was present even after more than 300 hours of burning in. I suspect that it probably took about a month for my unit to settle, despite running it 24/7 with a few power down cycle in between.
> 
> @slim.a, anyword about the new 24/96 module for the USB replacement? I was going to order one for my unit as I used the FUN to do some monitoring and initial mix on my work station until I read on the DAC-19 thread about kunalraiker having configuration issues with the chip in his DAC-19. It would be good to hear your impressions about this.


 

 Sorry, I won't be able to test the 24/96 usb module in the coming weeks. I asked audio-gd to delay the shipment of the usb module (as long as a power filter I ordered from them) because I won't be at home to receive them.

 I am also curious to hear about that 24/96 usb replacement. I wonder if any FUN user got the new Tenor module.


----------



## Cya|\|

Has anyone tried the fun with burson discrete opamp? How much does it improve? Does it get very near to the dac 19 sound quality with this opamp?


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





cya|\| said:


> Has anyone tried the fun with burson discrete opamp? How much does it improve? Does it get very near to the dac 19 sound quality with this opamp?


 

 Audio-GD makes the OPA's for Burson or at least did so in the Past.  I have a Burson and an A-GD and they are identical. except for PCB color.  The new ones "look" different and it is not clear whether A-GD still makes them for Burson.  I've asked and been told that they do.  So when you put an Earth OPA in your FUN, you can call it a Burson if it makes you feel better!
   
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hificollective.co.uk/images/burson_pic2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/bursonaudioopamps.html&usg=__v2T40xZdBleww6yuOjIFYlNxw4s=&h=242&w=297&sz=15&hl=en&start=3&sig2=_z_rmkHp3-ApscurzLrrWw&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=COoD7uGRRr-tKM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dburson%2Bopamp%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=qSgmTMayL4P7lweNotnAAg


----------



## Currawong

Some other Chinese company makes the Burson OPAMPs and other Burson gear now as far as I know.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Some other Chinese company makes the Burson OPAMPs and other Burson gear now as far as I know.


 

 I was wondering about that.  I had asked the question and got a Nebulous answer.


----------



## Sid-Fi

slim.a,
   
  Thank you very much for your passion for this hobby and for the time that you have spent trying to help new members like me build up their gear as effectively as possible. I'm fairly new to Head-Fi and your reviews on the the Fun and the Dac19 & C2 are exactly what I love so much about this community (along with a few others like HPA's massive review of portable dac/amps). I don't mean to lay it on thick, but seriously many props and thanks - especially when you have to put up with flaming for it on occasion.
   
  I'm getting pretty close to expanding my meager setup to include a more powerful desktop DAC and amp with full-size cans. I have read so many reviews on some exciting new products and find the Audio-gd products very fascinating (really appreciated the R2R versus sigma delta explanations!). One concern that I have though is that they seem to be more negatively affected by stock power equipment than other gear due to their high degree of neutrality (my impressions only, correct me if I'm wrong). The idea of having to spring for nice power conditioners, cables, interconnects, etc. is a little intimidating since I am on a pretty conservative budget (read wife imposed) and upgrades will take two or three months each.
   
  I'm wrestling with the order that I want to upgrade in, especially since I don't have full-size cans yet. A few products that I find especially interesting are the DAC19DSP & C2, FUN, Matrix Mini-i or Nuforce HDP & Matrix M-Stage. I'm also debating between Denon 2000/5000, Sennheiser HD 650, and AKG 702. It's not easy starting this hobby from the ground up, but dam it has been rewarding so far!
   
  Many thanks,
  -Dave
   
  p.s. Your setup is exactly what I picture growing into. I love the furniture piece (no idea what to call it) that houses all your gear and how the power conditioner sits off to the side and how each layer is insulated to prevent vibrations. Can you recommend where to look for something like that in the future?


----------



## Currawong

Sid-Fi: I've got to say, the Audio-gd gear to me is the least affected by power gear, out of what I've owned.  In comparison to my Ref 1, the NorthStar M192 MKI I owned previously was radically changed by even an Audio-gd power cord.  As well, the Audiovalve RKV I had was similar, sounding different depending on what I plugged it in to or with, compared to the Phoenix, which I have great trouble hearing any difference with power supply, cord or filter changes.  I put this down to the serious power supplies built into the Audio-gd gear.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Sid-Fi: I've got to say, the Audio-gd gear to me is the least affected by power gear, out of what I've owned.  In comparison to my Ref 1, the NorthStar M192 MKI I owned previously was radically changed by even an Audio-gd power cord.  As well, the Audiovalve RKV I had was similar, sounding different depending on what I plugged it in to or with, compared to the Phoenix, which I have great trouble hearing any difference with power supply, cord or filter changes.  I put this down to the serious power supplies built into the Audio-gd gear.


 

 Thanks for clarifying Currawong. That is helpful and nice to know. It looks like my best bet might to pickup an Audio-gd fun and be patient and sell it when I can afford to jump to Dac19DSP & C2. It would probably be silly to have Dac19DSP running through my D10 amp for a few months lol.


----------



## ulyses

Buying some good equipment to already had chain is not a silly action. I have a bravo amp and I pulled triger for a dac19dsp. Because I will buy a c2 soon or later. Than why am I waste my time with lower models and loose my money while buying and selling. Besides, good dac is always a good buy even feeding a pathetic amp. Good amp and pathetic dac is another story.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Good point. I've definitely debated that. Thanks.
  
  Quote: 





ulyses said:


> Buying some good equipment to already had chain is not a silly action. I have a bravo amp and I pulled triger for a dac19dsp. Because I will buy a c2 soon or later. Than why am I waste my time with lower models and loose my money while buying and selling. Besides, good dac is always a good buy even feeding a pathetic amp. Good amp and pathetic dac is another story.


----------



## superchan

crap after using  the FUN  for 3 months with AKG K701  i got a problem use ipod  outside ......
  crappy sound detail  crappy sound ....


----------



## muad

Lol, i know the feeling, even my ms1 sounds better on the fun than my stupid creative zen. The akg's are even more noticeably different...
   
  From everything I've purchased, the Fun was my best buy. Superchan, what opa are you using with the K701?


----------



## superchan

Quote: 





muad said:


> Lol, i know the feeling, even my ms1 sounds better on the fun than my stupid creative zen. The akg's are even more noticeably different...
> 
> From everything I've purchased, the Fun was my best buy. Superchan, what opa are you using with the K701?


 
   
     
*Opa -earth*


----------



## muad

DO you find the opa earth a "little" harsh? Im really sensitive to harshness and have to use the opa moon with the Fun. They sound very similar actually except the moon is a little smoother and lack that hard leading note clarity that the opa earth seems to have. Just easier on my ears thats all.


----------



## superchan

Quote: 





muad said:


> DO you find the opa earth a "little" harsh? Im really sensitive to harshness and have to use the opa moon with the Fun. They sound very similar actually except the moon is a little smoother and lack that hard leading note clarity that the opa earth seems to have. Just easier on my ears thats all.


 

 sorry i don't have the others  opa's to compare it. 
  well is not perfect but mine ears accepted it so far no complain from me.
  its a cheap device for a beginner like me wll try something higher gear in the future of audio gd


----------



## muad

I don't really consider the audio-gd fun a cheap device. It was a huge upgrade from my other dac's. I think it's on par with some much higher priced stuff. I don't have any upgraditis with this dac or hp amp but in the distant future I'll probably end up with a dac19 and some other audio-gd stuff


----------



## Currawong

As you go up the gear quality scale, you lose harshness, which is distortion.  Higher-end gear is designed to minimise distortion (if it's truly high-end).  At the lower end of the scale, treble roll-off is often used instead, which is why some people prefer the FET module, for example, or the soft modes.


----------



## muad

I always assumed harshness was a frequency imbalance. I figured that some designers were trying to walk the line of using treble to simulate detail. Here's a question for you. I can understand why an R2R dac would be very detailed without harshness. But what can sigma delta dac designers do to get the highs and upper mids detailed without emphasizing the upper spectrum? How would a high end sigma delta dac achieve this without coming off as harsh?
   
  I don't think I've read of anyone liking the fet module yet. It really sucks IMO. I think the sound of the fun is perfect with the opa earth or moon and the 4x oversampling instead of the 2x. I have very sensitive hearing but I like detail. So I do tend to find things harsh that others may not always agree with. I also listen to music at medium volume.


----------



## superchan

well yesterday there was a free mini band  festival  100 m from mine home so lets say the FUN is something like 60-70% behind the live events 
  for some reason how should say this in words  its need to be more smoother  or does this mean neutral ??


----------



## muad

what jumper are you using on the dac module? and how many hours has it been burn't in? Im just asking because I have zero harshness out of mine. The only time I do get it, is with headphones that are known to be bright... and I combat that with the opa moon opamp.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





muad said:


> what jumper are you using on the dac module? and how many hours has it been burn't in? Im just asking because I have zero harshness out of mine. The only time I do get it, is with headphones that are known to be bright... and I combat that with the opa moon opamp.


 

 My experience is the same.  Never noticed anything I would term as harsh.  I do think A-GD gear in general is revealing, so whatever your recording has, your playback will have.


----------



## superchan

standard i have not change the setting


----------



## muad

If you feel technically inclined, open up the Fun and swap the jumper on the dac to 4x oversampling. If you go back a few pages you'll find a picture of the dac module. Just make your's like the picture. TBH Im surprised the Fun doesn't come like this....
   
  And how many hours of burnin have you gone through?


----------



## Cya|\|

So guys, does changing the opamp only affect the rca out, or also the headphone out? If so, how better does it get with top quality opamps?


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





cya|\| said:


> So guys, does changing the opamp only affect the rca out, or also the headphone out? If so, how better does it get with top quality opamps?


 

 You could get some OPA's and experiment with them or just get an Earth and be done with it.  The OPA's do tailor the sound.  It affects the sound on all outputs.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Mine is also smooth (never harsh) but I have done some tweaking with the digital modules and the output stages (beyond swapping the jumper to 4X OS which did help to improve things to these ears). I changed out the module caps (the NoVers for Elna Cerafine then bypassed those with WIMA FKP 1.0uf 63V and some .1uf FKP's same V rating). That helped as well to further reduce some upper mid graininess. I'm waiting on some STD series Black Gates (100 uf 25V)that I ordered last week (from FeeBay) for the ACSS modules. I can post some pics if anyone is interested in seeing how I managed it (the bypass caps were tricky to accommodate).
   
  I'm using the FUN in preamp/line out mode to my C-2C. I have the volume set on the FUN to 3/4's with the C-2C running anywhere from 7:30 to 10:00 depending on source material/mood etc. This pairing is pretty sweet for casual listening/movies/gaming etc.
   
  Peete.


----------



## muad

Nice peete! Some pics would be sweet. I'll probably never sell my Fun so some pics and impressions for future reference would be great! Especially it doesn't seem that anyone else is modding their Fun past swapping modules.


----------



## muad

To cya:
   
  From my personal experience with the Fun and high quality opamps... I think the Fun was designed and intended to be used with the audio-gd opamps. I never had the same experience with IC opamps that slimA had. I felt that I was losing details with regular opamps. LesGarten advice about the getting the opa earth is about right. If you want, get the moon also. It sounds a little less defined and would be nice to have so that you can match it up with brighter or harsher headphones. The difference between them is subtle at best.


----------



## Cya|\|

By the way, kingwa just replied me, and said that the sparrow is like the fun with earth opamp (maybe it's assembled in a different way).
  It's just that i'm not sure, as his english is not very clear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Can u guys confirm if i understood correctly? Here's what he said:
   
Sparrow is like the FUN install the OPA-EARTH,but FUN can install the OPA-MOON,and OPA-SUN too,and FUN is more functions than the Sparrow.
Best Regards
Edwin


----------



## Currawong

Yes. The Earth is neutral, so no OPAMP would be equivalent of the Earth sonically.


----------



## haloxt

I've read some people speculate that metal can opamps sound better than their 8 dip counterparts because the metal cans provide shielding. What material do you guys think I should use to shield my hdam's? I'm thinking a box made of 10 layers of reynolds+scotch tape insulation and attached to the ground wire, good or bad idea? Maybe I'll leave the top of the foil box open to preent heat buildup.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> I've read some people speculate that metal can opamps sound better than their 8 dip counterparts because the metal cans provide shielding. What material do you guys think I should use to shield my hdam's? I'm thinking a box made of 10 layers of reynolds+scotch tape insulation and attached to the ground wire, good or bad idea? Maybe I'll leave the top of the foil box open to preent heat buildup.


 

 AL is not much of a shield. try a thin steel.  If you look at the shields internal to the REF1, KW used thin steel.  At least it looks like steel, and that's what most would use.  Needs to be Ferrous.


----------



## littletree76

I am using FUN (version A with DIR9001 / DA8740 / ACSS Gain / Diamond Output / OPA-EARTH modules) strictly as DAC with its pre-amp output connected to power amplifier / Mordaunt-Short speakers and its DAC output connected to Purity Audio's KICAS headphone amplifier to drive Denon D5000 headphone.
   
  I have plan to insert tube buffer such as Yaqin SD-CD3 6N8P (http://www.pacificvalve.us/YaqinTBCD3.html) between FUN's DAC output and line input of KICAS headphone amplifier. The tube buffer is meant for impedance matching between the DAC and the headphone amplifier, as well as thicker/smoother sound with less fatigue high-end (through tube rolling). Is there any pitfall I should look out for in using the tube buffer ?
   
  Instead of buying a hybrid headphone amplifier such as Hifiman EF5, I thought combination of tube buffer and solid state headphone amplifier is a better choice (best of both worlds). Perhaps I should switch the DAC module from DA8740 back to default DA1852 to avoid excessively warm sound when the tube buffer is in place. I switched from default DA1852 to DA8740 because of bright/fatigue high-end response after FUN has been fully burned-in and favor jumper settings did not help.


----------



## muad

I think it's worth a shot, the dac output is pretty rough! I would think the da1852 would be a better sound, I really didn't like the wolfson module. The preamp out for me is really the only option. Along with having the opamps to tailor the sound. It might be cheaper and more beneficial to you to get a good quality splitter for the preamp out instead of using the dac output.... Just a thought.
   
  Oh and if the preamp is till to harsh then maybe the opa moon would be a good idea to take the edge off without getting overly warm.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

*Les* those are thin copper sheet painted black ( RE1/Phoenix/FBI-500/CD7X ). For the lower end gear I'm not sure what metal is used for the shielding but it could also be CU.
   
*MUAD,*
  I'll take some snaps of the modified modules and post them tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
*Littletree76*,
   
  Are the speakers using an aluminum dome tweeter by any chance ? They might be voiced really brightly. The tube buffer should help just be sure to use decent NOS tubes with it.
   
  Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> *Les* those are thin copper sheet painted black ( RE1/Phoenix/FBI-500/CD7X ). For the lower end gear I'm not sure what metal is used for the shielding but it could also be CU.


 

 Heh, well there ya go, that's what happens when you assume!
   
    Foil "may" help some with RF. Don't think it will do anything for Magnetic shielding.   KW uses a lot of AL as a "shield" where he could probably do  better with steel IMO.  On some of the B22 single chassis threads there was a lot of interesting stuff about how to make those transfos cohabitate with the amp boards, and keep everything quiet.
   
  That might be something down your ally, change out the AL between the three main boards with steel as well as the Transfo shields?
   
  Might make the inky blackness mo' black.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The Traffo boxes are steel in the RE1, not sure what they are in the newer stuff. I agree with you Les....aluminum has pretty poor shielding capabilities although I have never had any issues with Kingwa's gear WRT noise floor/EMI/RFI interference (not yet anyway) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  You could get some adhesive backed copper foil tape (hardware stores should have it if not a decent DIY parts store) and apply it to the dividers surfaces the lid (underside) etc....tie all the panels together to the IEC ground terminal on the chassis back plate. I use the foil in my guitar mods (for the vol pot/pick up wring recess) and it does a great job of quieting Strats (single coils) and of course adds another level of blackness to guitars equipped with humbuckers. The copper tape isn't exactly cheap but it's not expensive either.
   
  The B22 thread is full of great info that is for sure...
   
  Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> The Traffo boxes are steel in the RE1, not sure what they are in the newer stuff. I agree with you Les....aluminum has pretty poor shielding capabilities although I have never had any issues with Kingwa's gear WRT noise floor/EMI/RFI interference (not yet anyway)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  They're not steel in mine.  After you mentioned it, I broke out the magnet.  No iron anywhere surrounding the Transformers.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> They're not steel in mine.  After you mentioned it, I broke out the magnet.  No iron anywhere surrounding the Transformers.


 
   
   
  Hmm maybe I'm mistaken.....yours are aluminum ?
   
  Here's a link to some 3M copper shielding tape from digikey  http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll
   
  One more http://shop.ebay.ca/i.html?_nkw=copper+shielding+tape&_armrs=1&_dmd=2&_from=&_ipg=
   
  Peete.


----------



## littletree76

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> *Littletree76*,
> 
> Are the speakers using an aluminum dome tweeter by any chance ? They might be voiced really brightly. The tube buffer should help just be sure to use decent NOS tubes with it.
> 
> Peete.


 
   
  You are right, my Mordaunt Short Mezzo1 speakers are constructed with aluminum CPC mid/bass driver and aluminum dome tweeter. But what make the bright sound particularly unbearable is when the sound is reproduced through headphone instead of speaker. Furthermore I play music through headphone only during long work session and fatigue bound to set in.
   
  Once I have acquired the tube buffer, the first thing to do is to replace the stock 6N8P tubes with matched pair of Electro-Harmonix 6SN7EH tubes purchased from online store thetubestore.com.


----------



## Currawong

littletree: What headphones are you using? What cables as well?


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> Hmm maybe I'm mistaken.....yours are aluminum ?
> 
> Here's a link to some 3M copper shielding tape from digikey  http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll
> 
> ...


 

 Thanx for the linx! I don't know if it's AL, but probably, it's thin and doesn't ring at all.
   
  Here's an idea for ya.
   
  Replace the dividers between the boards with Iron, and the thin box around the Transfos with steel or if enough room some Iron.  All painted rustoleum black!  Would turn a brick into a heavier brick!
   
  I'm actually being serious here...


----------



## littletree76

Quote: 





currawong said:


> littletree: What headphones are you using? What cables as well?


 

 Currently I am using Denon D5000 in stock condition (stock cable) with rather neutral Purity Audio KICAS headphone amplifier.
   
  Note the problem was encountered when the Denon D5000 was connected directly to headphone output of FUN with default DA1852 DAC module. Ever since I switched to DA8740 DAC module, the problem has been resolved. Right now I am thinking of incorporating tube buffer with DAC module reverted back to the default DA1852. Descriptions in my previous posts have not been detail enough thus might have caused confusion.
   
  Kingwa has provided following options (listed according to effective level from most to least) to achieve softer/warmer sound signature:
   
  1. DA8740 DAC module.
  2. OPA-MOON module.
  3. Favor jumper setting.


----------



## muad

littletree... I ask everyone the same question. Have you swapped the jumper on the ad1852 module? Try the jumper setting closer to the rear of the module, made all the difference in the world for me.  My next move if I were you would be the moon opa. I found the wolfson dac a little too warm for my taste. Maybe I'll try it again when my new phones come in.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> Thanx for the linx! I don't know if it's AL, but probably, it's thin and doesn't ring at all.
> 
> Here's an idea for ya.
> 
> ...


 

 I'd like to try that but machining the metal dividers and enclosures for the traffos would be pretty difficult and expensive so the next best thing for my situation (limited funds) is to add the copper foil tape (which I'm going to do). Your idea is a good one though. It sure would make the RE1 even heavier than it already is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





littletree76 said:


> You are right, my Mordaunt Short Mezzo1 speakers are constructed with aluminum CPC mid/bass driver and aluminum dome tweeter. But what make the bright sound particularly unbearable is when the sound is reproduced through headphone instead of speaker. Furthermore I play music through headphone only during long work session and fatigue bound to set in.
> 
> Once I have acquired the tube buffer, the first thing to do is to replace the stock 6N8P tubes with matched pair of Electro-Harmonix 6SN7EH tubes purchased from online store thetubestore.com.


 


 I thought so...those speakers do have a bright voicing as is customary for the designer....the aluminum cones/domes can be troublesome and peaky at certain frequencies. The EH tubes are definitely not worth getting (sorry to say). What you need is a set of NOS RCA or Sylvania 6SN7 GT/GTB. You can get a decent set for 30USD that will outperform the EH tubes by a huge margin. The EH-6SN7 is easily the worst sounding 6SN7 I've ever heard. I have a pair of them (EH 6SN7's) and I got a set of Sylvania 6SN7GTB's right away (for the amp using them), glad I did. Made a huge difference. Use the search function here as there is a really informative 6SN7 thread to glean for some excellent tube choices and their sound signatures.
  
  Quote: 





muad said:


> littletree... I ask everyone the same question. Have you swapped the jumper on the ad1852 module? Try the jumper setting closer to the rear of the module, made all the difference in the world for me.  My next move if I were you would be the moon opa. I found the wolfson dac a little too warm for my taste. Maybe I'll try it again when my new phones come in.


 
   
  Muad's right littletree76...the 4X setting helps a bit and is very easy to change.......

 Here are the pics of the FUN modules as promised muad,
   
DIR9001 Module  ( 2 x 100uf 10V Elna cerafine )
   

   
DIR9001 Module bypass caps ( 2 x 0.1uf 63V Wima)
   

   
Diamond Output module  ( 4 x 100uf 25V Elna cerafine)*
   

   
   
Diamond Output module bypass caps (4 x 1.0uf 63V Wima)*
   
   

   
  * just one channel module shown. The R channel board is identical.
   
   
AD1852 DAC module  (4 x 100uf Elna Cerafine 10V)
   

   
AD1852 DAC module bypass caps ( 4 x 1.0 uf 63V Wima)
   

   
   
  Sorry about the iffy pics....
   
  Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Show off!
   
  Yeah, the only thing the REF1 needs is a little IRON in it's diet!


----------



## muad

thanks peete! Any impressions on the sound? Or will that come later?


----------



## Currawong

Littletree: how many hours have you used the fun? It tends to sound quite harsh until you've given it a couple of hundred hours use.


----------



## littletree76

I did aware of jumper setting for oversampling rate (4x or 2x) in DA1852 DAC module as I followed this thread closely before making purchase at end of January 2010. After 300 hours of burn-in (100 hours in factory and 200 hours in my home), I decided to change the jumper position from default location closer toward front panel to achieve 4x oversampling (contrary to what have been posted in this thread). The jumper position was determined by Analog Device AD1852 data sheet and PCB tracing with multimeter. Sibilance (not noise rather excessive "sssssssss" sound in pronunciation) was reduced but high-end still too accentuated/harsh to me through FUN's headphone output and Denon D5000 headphone. Then I tried different favor jump settings in main PCB to no avail and finally replaced the default DA1852 DAC module with DA8740 DAC module. Probably I should have continued burn-in beyond 300 hours before making any change in hardware as FUN requires very long hours of burn-in (at least 500 hours ?). I have taken following route to resolve the issue:
   
  Oversampling rate jumper in DA1852 DAC module > Favor jumpers in main PCB > DA8740 DAC module (probably OPA-Moon is a better option ?)
   
  I have noticed loss of detail and dynamic range after DAC module switched from DA1852 to DA8740. Thus I would like to have DA1852 in FUN as far as possible. By now the FUN has been in use daily for half a year, it is about time to try again with the DA1852 DAC module and tube buffer. Final configuration for my audio setup as follows:
   
  FUN (DA1852 with 4x oversampling, OPA-Earth and DAC output)
  > Yaqin SD-CD3 Tube Buffer (6SN7 tubes)
  > Purity Audio regular KICAS Headphone Amplifier (not warmer Caliente version)
  > Denon D5000 Headphone
   
  In case DAC output is worst than preamp output (currently occupied by connections to power amplifier), I will need Y connections to connect both power amplifier and headphone amplifier to the same preamp output of FUN. Further tweaking of sound signature can be done through tube rolling with the tube buffer. Moment of truth will come when the tube buffer arrive next week.


----------



## Currawong

Rather than get a tube buffer, have you thought of getting a couple of OPA627s on a Browdog adaptor and putting them in place of the DAC OPAMP instead?  That will give you your "tube sound" without having to resort to more gear in the sound chain.


----------



## Cya|\|

Anyone compared the fun with the nuforce hdp?


----------



## muad

Weird about the da1852 jumper setting. To my ears the front was more harsh and sibilant.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





littletree76 said:


> I decided to change the jumper position from default location closer toward front panel to achieve 4x oversampling (contrary to what have been posted in this thread). The jumper position was determined by Analog Device AD1852 data sheet and PCB tracing with multimeter.


 

 Could you elaborate on this?  There was a PIC and explanation a few pages back.  Are you saying that was incorrect?  I'm confused by your wording.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> Could you elaborate on this?  There was a PIC and explanation a few pages back.  Are you saying that was incorrect?  I'm confused by your wording.


 

 The pic about the settings was actually done by me. It was based on my reading of the AD1852 datasheet and observing the chip's orientation itself on the module. I could be wrong though but I found that sonically, the position that I set as in the PIC is much more satisfactory. PErhaps we should all ask Kingwa as to which is actually the correct setting then?


----------



## littletree76

*les_garten* and *rhythmic_impulse*,
   
  I identified two pins for sample rate selection (2x/192kHz and 4x/96kHz) in AD1852 data sheet. Using ohm meter I traced all connections between the two pins and jumper block in PCB of DA1852 DAC module (removed from FUN). Note that trace layouts on PCB do not always correspond directly to relative orientations of components (particularly for double-sided PCB). Sample rate selection is done by asserting logic high voltage at either pins (pulled up to 5V supply voltage). That was how I determine that 4x/96kHz sample rate is preferred over 2x/192kHz sample rate. Ultimately only Kingwa can confirm on the jumper setting as the DA1852 module is designed by him. Alternatively you can always use your ear to determine which is a better jumper position to reduce harsh/sibilant high-end regardless of jumper position (a more pragmatic approach to me).
   
*Currawong*,
   
  Thank you for the suggestion to use OPA627 to replace OPA-Earth for tube sound instead of using tube buffer. I have limited experience in opamp rolling and had no idea which opamp can achieve the same effect as tube buffer and the tube buffer has already been purchased anyway. I missed tube sound (particularly vocal presentation in mid frequencies) ever since I sold my hybrid headphone amplifier. The tube buffer allows me to customize sound signature further according to my preference and other's experience.
   
   
  Yesterday I swapped DA8740 module for DA1852 module (with jumper moved toward front panel) to prepare for tube buffer integration. To my surprise, high-end response dose not sound harsh/sibilant through headphone output of FUN and Denon D5000 anymore. Conclusion is FUN needs a long time to settle down, make sure it is fully burned in before making any change in hardware and jumper setting (sample rate selection) in DA1852 DAC module does help in reducing sibilance (first thing to try before other options and I suppose that's why *muad* has been advocating).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





muad said:


> thanks peete! Any impressions on the sound? Or will that come later?


 

 My problem is I can't quite recall what the stock config sounded like. Right now it's very smooth, yet extended and controlled, deep bass, nice mids, smooth treble and very black. Really quick when called upon with decay that goes on for as long as the signal is audible (fades into the black). If I had to guess I'd say the 5 or 6 bucks worth of parts used is well worth the hour or so it takes to do the mods. Hopefully at the next mini meet someone else with a have a stock fun to compare against, that way I'll be better able to judge. I know the last meet I attended a lot of folks were impressed with the stock A config FUN with a couple of folks wishing to buy one.
   
  Peete.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

I just got hold of a used Sennheiser HD650 recently and tried it with the FUN. I used to feel the FUN sounded a bit harsh on the HD600. Now it sounded like the FUN and HD650 have good synergy in that it sounded much more better and smoother and the sonics as reproduced through the HD650 has depth, clarity and balanced. Timbre textures sounded more realistic. There's a bit of graininess at the upper treble region but this is probably due to my transport set-up. It will be interesting to test the Audio-Gd Digital Interface with my set-up. The description of it seems to indicate that the DSP-3 has the ability to clean up the digital signal and/or minimise the effects of the cables.
   
  I should also point out that at the same setting on the volume pot (around 10 to 11 o'clock), the HD650 sounded much louder than the HD600.


----------



## adam_eu

I have a question to Fun users.
  Is there an option to connect to this unit active speakers (via pre out), speaker integrated amp (via dac out), headphones (via hp out) at one time and switch between them using just selectors?
  I know that I could switch between hp and pre out using line-in button , but how to activate dac-out as second output. AFAIR compass had this ability.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





adam_eu said:


> I have a question to Fun users.
> Is there an option to connect to this unit active speakers (via pre out), speaker integrated amp (via dac out), headphones (via hp out) at one time and switch between them using just selectors?
> I know that I could switch between hp and pre out using line-in button , but how to activate dac-out as second output. AFAIR compass had this ability.


 

 I think only one output at a time can be selected/used/monitored at any given time, then again most gear (line level preamps/integrated amps) behave in this fashion unless the gear has a tape/effects loop and secondary monitoring circuitry/functionality. There is only so much room under the hood of the FUN. Signal routing without a separate loop makes using 2 outputs simultaneously impossible as I sit here thinking about it....I could be wrong however (having not tested the FUN in this manner ).
   
  Peete.


----------



## adam_eu

Maybe I haven't made myself clear. I don't want to send signal to more than one unit at one time, I just want to have them connected via dac out / pre out / hp out and switch easly.
  I would like to connect to FUN Audioengine A2, D2000 and Integrated amp and just switch between them without messing with the cables. Is it possible? I've already send an e-mail to Kingwa, maybe (i mean for sure) he will know the answer.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sorry for my misunderstanding your original question...with your request now understood by yours truly (of thick skull 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and terrible spelling) it should work rather well.
   
  Peete.


----------



## muad

The headphone and preamp out are switchable. The dac out and preamp out are not.


----------



## Currawong

I received, with my Sparrow, a 24/96 USB module to try. I pulled the Fun out of my speaker rig to compare it to the original with headphones, and while the difference wasn't large, the 24/96 module seems to be a tad smoother/less harsh.  I think the overall AD1852/DIR9001/Earth combo is, overall, a bit harsh at this level with bright cans.  I understand why now many manufacturers of low-end gear tend to make their amps and the like a bit rolled-off, such as by using the WM8740 and/or through the design of the output stage, as it masks this.  I haven't played with the "soft" setting jumpers in the Fun this time, but if they behave like they did in the Compass, engaging them gives quite subtle results that might be worth trying if harshness is a problem.  I recall Zanth saying, about the Compass, that he enjoyed using it at work with the most rolled-off soft setting, as it was very relaxing to listen with.


----------



## muad

Can you give us a comparison between optical/coax and the new usb module?
   
  Please


----------



## adam_eu

Quote: 





muad said:


> The headphone and preamp out are switchable. The dac out and preamp out are not.


 

 Thank You


----------



## Cya|\|

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I received, with my Sparrow, a 24/96 USB module to try. I pulled the Fun out of my speaker rig to compare it to the original with headphones, and while the difference wasn't large, the 24/96 module seems to be a tad smoother/less harsh.  I think the overall AD1852/DIR9001/Earth combo is, overall, a bit harsh at this level with bright cans.  I understand why now many manufacturers of low-end gear tend to make their amps and the like a bit rolled-off, such as by using the WM8740 and/or through the design of the output stage, as it masks this.  I haven't played with the "soft" setting jumpers in the Fun this time, but if they behave like they did in the Compass, engaging them gives quite subtle results that might be worth trying if harshness is a problem.  I recall Zanth saying, about the Compass, that he enjoyed using it at work with the most rolled-off soft setting, as it was very relaxing to listen with.


 

 Isn't the 24/96 module the default one? By the way, could u do a comparison between the sparrow and the fun with earth opamp? I'd really like to know if the fun with upgraded opamp is better than the sparrow.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





cya|\| said:


> Isn't the 24/96 module the default one? By the way, could u do a comparison between the sparrow and the fun with earth opamp? I'd really like to know if the fun with upgraded opamp is better than the sparrow.


 

 It's the default now.  IIRC Kingwa said somewhere the Fun with Earth and Sparrow (A) were the same, different only in features.  I'm a little reluctant to try and split hairs over optical and USB and other small things with which there is very likely a lot of variance and doesn't matter so much with entry-level gear.  What I'm most interested in doing is comparing the Sparrow or Fun to the on-board sound of my MacBook Pro with the headphones I was using and music I was listening to before I discovered Head-fi.  I want to think about what I would have felt had I bought one from scratch.


----------



## superchan

audio gd added a new D/A module : *[size=x-small]DA8740 Modules :[/size]*
  [size=x-small]Uses the Wolfson Hi-End grade chips WM8740. Supports up to 192KHz/24Bit D/A conversion. Sounds quite neutral but slight smooth,the detail and dynamic had recur.[/size]
   
   
  anyone is going to try this  out ??


----------



## Currawong

The 8740 was available from the beginning. I think he removed, at one stage, all the modules that people weren't interested in. The 8740 a tad smoother than the AD1852 ("glass" vs. "wood" was the description that comes to my mind the first time I tried it) but I think a little inferior overall, though maybe a better match with lower-end gear for these reasons.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

The FUN webpage has been updated. The new default module for DAC is the WM8741 which according to Kingwa, sounds  richer and analog than the AD1852 but detailed as well.  It won't be a drect drop replacement module though since an upgrade will involve soldering a wire from the WM8741 module to the DIR9001 module for power requirements. Kingwa said the wire is already soldered on the WM8741 so upgrades will only involve attaching the wire to the DIR9001. He will provide a pic to show how this is done.


----------



## Cya|\|

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> The FUN webpage has been updated. The new default module for DAC is the WM8741 which according to Kingwa, sounds  richer and analog than the AD1852 but detailed as well.  It won't be a drect drop replacement module though since an upgrade will involve soldering a wire from the WM8741 module to the DIR9001 module for power requirements. Kingwa said the wire is already soldered on the WM8741 so upgrades will only involve attaching the wire to the DIR9001. He will provide a pic to show how this is done.


 

 What do you mean with "sounds analog than the ad1852"?


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

I'm not so sure by what Kingwa is saying but this is his reply to my email:
   

```
The WM8741 price is USD30 but since its power supply is different, so want >> to solder one wire to suit its power request in the old FUN. >> The WM8741 sound slight rich than AD1852 and slight analog but detail.
```
  
  I assume it must be something about the WM8471 being not harsh as compared to the AD1852. Some of us, including myself, have previously found the AD1852 combination to be rather harsh with bright sounding cans. I am hoping that the newer module is natural sounding. I have ordered one unit so hopefully I can provide some impressions later.


----------



## Cya|\|

ok, so i guess the ad1852 is still the best choice for non bright cans (like hd650 or audeze lcd 2).


----------



## Currawong

The difference wont be much.  The 8741 is Wolfson's top-of-the-line DAC, whereas the 8740 is the cheap one used in a lot of low-end gear.  The ideal DAC sounds more natural and less digital, though that's difficult in low-end gear without making the sound more coloured usually.


----------



## muad

Is anyone planning on trying the new dac module? I think I'm gonna pick one up. I'm just gonna ask kingwa some questions first. Does anyone have a link to the installation instructions?


----------



## fourwed

I am new to DAC and wanna ask some silly questions about the FUN.
   

 I hate background noise when using a headphone amp, does FUN has this problem?
 I am still very confuse about the bit and Hz specifications. If I buy FUN now, it will have DIR9001 and WM8741, which is 24/96 and 32/192. Does it mean that the signal will be passed in the DIR in 24/96 and then upsample to 32/192 in the DAC?
 Is the bit and Hz only exist in Digital source? which means that after the DAC did its job to convert into analog signal, we cannot describe it in bit and Hz as it is become analog?
 Does the TE7022, 24/96Hz USB input support ASIO?
   
  Please advise. Thank you.


----------



## Cya|\|

The wolfson 8741 can support from 16 to 32 bit. In the audio gd products it stops at 24 bit.
  In my opinion, 32 bit is useless unless you wanna use some digital effects, like digital attenuator. And the audio gd fun and sparrow have a high quality analog potentiometer.


----------



## Currawong

fourwed: You really need to learn entirely about how analogue to digital and digital to analogue conversion works in detail. I'm sorry I can't, off the top of my head, suggest where to begin reading.  For now, I would only concern yourself with your first question.  To answer that, we need to know what headphones you have.  Usually, however, you might expect, with no music playing, a little hiss if you turn the volume all the way up.  With music playing, you won't encounter any hiss at normal listening levels with all but unusual headphones.


----------



## Cya|\|

Btw currawong, i'm looking forward to your opinion of the lcd 2 with the fun. As i'll definitly by buying the sparrow for them, as that's the best amp/dac i can afford.


----------



## bobxxxbob

Quote: 





muad said:


> Is anyone planning on trying the new dac module? I think I'm gonna pick one up. I'm just gonna ask kingwa some questions first. Does anyone have a link to the installation instruct
> 
> here is a picture kingwa sent me  that shows where you need to solder the wire when installing the new module.


----------



## muad

Great thank you!
   
  I went to order the module... stupid shipping is more than half the cost of the module


----------



## Tom W

Quote: 





currawong said:


> It's the default now.  IIRC Kingwa said somewhere the Fun with Earth and Sparrow (A) were the same, different only in features.  I'm a little reluctant to try and split hairs over optical and USB and other small things with which there is very likely a lot of variance and doesn't matter so much with entry-level gear.  What I'm most interested in doing is comparing the Sparrow or Fun to the on-board sound of my MacBook Pro with the headphones I was using and music I was listening to before I discovered Head-fi.  I want to think about what I would have felt had I bought one from scratch.


 
   
  Have you had a chance to compare the Sparrow to the A.O. of your MPB (or Air Express if you have one)? I was wondering if it would be a worthwhile upgrade for me for the office.


----------



## muad

Audio-gd Fun Page was updated with this:
   
   
  Quote: 





> > *Note:*  [size=small]*Note:*[/size]
> > [size=x-small] 5th Augest:   [/size]
> > [size=x-small]    At the first , We adjusted the AD1852 sound near neutral and  the WM8740 sound on the warm side for customers choice different flavors. That time the WM8740 sound less detail and dynamic than AD1852.[/size]
> >
> > ...


 

 I decided to pull the trigger on the new module, I want the detail and dynamics of the ad1852 but a more natural tonal balance. I guess we'll see! I also gave him a friendly reminder about making the PCM 1704 module


----------



## superchan

Quote: 





muad said:


> Audio-gd Fun Page was updated with this:
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to pull the trigger on the new module, I want the detail and dynamics of the ad1852 but a more natural tonal balance. I guess we'll see! I also gave him a friendly reminder about making the PCM 1704 module


 
  huh putting a pcm 1704 module  = killing  *[size=x-small]DAC-19 [/size]*


----------



## Currawong

I'm not sure there would be much benefit to putting in a PCM1704 as the distortion in the Fun itself would have to be lower. I could be wrong though. The WM8741 is possibly going to be the best value if it is between the AD1852 and 8740.


----------



## muad

This was his response to my questions regarding the da8741 module vs the ad1852 module, plus other little tidbits of info. Sounds like the DA8741 is the best... He also repeated in a third email the need to burn in the module before judging it. He stated each module only had 8 hours on it before it ships...
   
   
  Quote: 





> From my hear, the WM8741 is dynamic and detail as AD1852, and clarity than AD1852 without harsh.
> But this is my personal subjective points.
> I can't sure you will have same points.
> And your AD1852 had burn in a lot time, if you want to compare, you are better burn in WM8741 around 300 hours .
> ...


----------



## tongson

Apparently you can 'brighten' the WM8740. According to Kingwa you need to solder pins 26 and 27 to GND.
   
  Will do it tonight


----------



## tongson

Kingwa sent me this image. He said connect 26 and 27 to that red spot. I think he meant remove the top coating and solder?


----------



## Currawong

Yup, under that is the ground plane.


----------



## littletree76

Quote: 





tongson said:


> Kingwa sent me this image. He said connect 26 and 27 to that red spot. I think he meant remove the top coating and solder?


 

 According to Wolfson's data sheet for WM8740 DAC, pin 26 (MC/DM0) and pin 27 (MD/DM1) are hardware logic inputs used in setting de-emphasis at various frequencies (off/48kHz/44.1kHz/32kHz correspond to 2-bit control values of 00/01/10/11). Since these two pins are pulled up to logic high internally, the default setting is de-emphasis applied at 32kHz frequency. When these two pins are pulled down to logic low (ground voltage), de-emphasis is turned off and thus no built-in low-pass filter is applied to analog output signal after digital-to-analog conversion.
   
  Very old ADCs used in recording tend to have rising noise floor in high end of audio band. In order to eliminate the noise signal, pre-emphasis (high-pass filter) is applied to analog signal before digitized by the ADC into digital format, and corresponding de-emphasis (low-pass filter) is applied to the analog signal after being converted by DAC. This pre-emphasis/de-emphasis process is no longer needed for modern ADC/DAC though many DAC (include WM8740) still retain such feature.
   
  In essence, the objective is to remove default 32kHz low-pass filter at analog output of WM8740 DAC after conversion. It removes attenuation of harmonic frequencies higher than 32kHz and high-end roll off to brighten the sound. Old technology used with wrong intent to advantage of modern implementation.
   
  I may either try out this simple mod (solder one end of wire between the two pins and the other end to ground) on existing WM8740 module or purchase the new WM8741 module from Audio-GD.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





littletree76 said:


> According to Wolfson's data sheet for WM8740 DAC, pin 26 (MC/DM0) and pin 27 (MD/DM1) are hardware logic inputs used in setting de-emphasis at various frequencies (off/48kHz/44.1kHz/32kHz correspond to 2-bit control values of 00/01/10/11). Since these two pins are pulled up to logic high internally, the default setting is de-emphasis applied at 32kHz frequency. When these two pins are pulled down to logic low (ground voltage), de-emphasis is turned off and thus no built-in low-pass filter is applied to analog output signal after digital-to-analog conversion.
> 
> Very old ADCs used in recording tend to have rising noise floor in high end of audio band. In order to eliminate the noise signal, pre-emphasis (high-pass filter) is applied to analog signal before digitized by the ADC into digital format, and corresponding de-emphasis (low-pass filter) is applied to the analog signal after being converted by DAC. This pre-emphasis/de-emphasis process is no longer needed for modern ADC/DAC though many DAC (include WM8740) still retain such feature.
> 
> ...


 


 Sounds like a good place for a switch?


----------



## tongson

Thanks for the explanation littletree76.
   
  My 8740 module it gathering dust so might as well try the mod.


----------



## muad

I'm gonna try it also, the thing is the 8741 is already on it's way but at least this way my old 8740 module will be good for something! I wonder if there is an audible difference between the 8741 and 8740 modules.


----------



## tongson

Mod is a success. Listening to it right now. Definitely brighter and more detailed.
   
  Compared to the default AD1852 DAC, the 8740 has a tubey sound.
   
  Thanks Kingwa!


----------



## tongson

Quote: 





muad said:


> I'm gonna try it also, the thing is the 8741 is already on it's way but at least this way my old 8740 module will be good for something! I wonder if there is an audible difference between the 8741 and 8740 modules.


 

 I doubt there will be any significant difference between the two but if you do please let us know. TIA


----------



## muad

Will do, but both modules need to be burned in etc. I'll mod the WM8740 tomorrow.


----------



## muad

OMG, im gonna need a tiny tip to solder the dac pins.... What kinda soldering iron did u guys use?
   
  edit: actually I just realized i can bridge the two connections... not so hard then


----------



## muad

Here kingwa's answer about the PCM1704 module from the Fun website:
   
   
  Quote: 





> [size=x-small]9th August:
> A lot customers asked me release the PCM1704 modules for the FUN. But this is quite difficult, the PCM1704 price is costly, and want to match the DF1704 as the digital filter, total cost will more than USD100, which is against the FUN target.
> Now we had upgrade the WM8741 ,I think this is the last DA chip upgrade in FUN . The WM8741 had the quite neutral sound and dynamic, detail, it had already bring the FUN to another level and better than a lot DA chips at the same price rang.  The old FUN owners can easy upgrade the WM8741 in their FUN. We had solder the wire with the WM8741 module before shipping, owner , only want to solder the wire at the DIR module as the photo. After modify, owners still can return to the WM8740 or AD1852.[/size]


----------



## miyinan

Choosing between the FUN and nuforce's HDP. Anybody any idea of the HDP? Is it better than the FUN when both work as a dac/amp combo?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Cya|\|

What is the rca input in the back of the Fun? Is it an input for an external dac, wich bypasses the fun dac, and goes directly to the fun amp? In this case i may quite consider this over the sparrow. That's because when i'll want to upgrade my system in the future, i'll first upgrade the dac (with the new upcoming audio gd highend dac), and then the amp (maybe roc).


----------



## muad

Yep, it lets you bypass the dac.


----------



## miyinan

I posted this is in the Sparrow thread. It is about the USB and DA chip that Audio-gd just updated recently. Is the TE7022 really better than the PCM2706/7? And same for the DA chip, is the WM8741 really better than AD1852? If I only have 16/44.1 files, is the extra cost of the A version really worthwhile?
   
  Thanks


----------



## muad

From what I have read, the A version has slightly better sound quality compared to the version B. These impressions were from a few months back, when both the a and b versions were using the AD1852 dac. So the only difference were the higher quality components used. The WM8741 dac module was released last week and no has one yet that I know of has one. Myself and I'm sure some others have ordered the module but even then we still have to burn it in once it arrives, before we can give any comparisons. Supposedly the dac module only comes with 8hrs burn in when ordered individually. So you may have to wait a bit to get some answers...
   
  BTW I personally would get version A, just because of the use of the better caps and resistors etc. Also in regards to the new dac. Kingwa truly believes this new dac is the end all upgrade for the Fun.
   
   
  Quote: 





> [size=x-small]Now we had upgrade the WM8741 in FUN  ,I think this is[/size]_*[size=small] [/size]*_[size=x-small]the last  upgrade[/size][size=small] [/size][size=x-small]of the FUN , we can't upgrade the FUN anymore . [/size]  [size=x-small]    A lot customers asked me release the PCM1704 modules for the FUN. But this is impossible, the PCM1704 price is costly, and want to match the DF1704 as the digital filter, total cost will more than USD100 and want to change the power supply , which is against the FUN target.
> 
> The WM8741 already has the excellent performance and sound quality in this price rang. I don't think there has another DA chips can fit FUN better than the WM8741.[/size]


----------



## miyinan

Thanks Muad, I am leaning towards the A version now. As I mentioned above, I am deciding between the FUN and nuforce's HDP, so I will wait for a little while till you or someone else get the impression out of the new A version.


----------



## sulcata_geo

I've recieved WM8741 module yesterday.
  The sound is so smooth and detailed compare to AD1852.


----------



## littletree76

I ordered the new DA8741 DAC module 3 days ago and today EMS has delivered to my doorstep. The PCB looked the same as old DA8740 DAC module and pin 26 and 27 of WM8741 DAC converter have been shorted to ground plane. I suspect WM8741 is pin-to-pin compatible with WM8740. My old DA8740 DAC module was ruined because few pins have been shorted together while trying to solder pin 26/27 to ground with a sharp-tip underpowered soldering iron (you need iron hot enough to do swift soldering for good precision).
   
  Replaced existing DA1852 DAC module with new DAC module (don't miss out white plastic washer underneath before securing the module with screw) and then soldered provided wire between new DAC module and 3.3V supply line of DIR module (refer to Audio-GD FUN's website). Initial impression is deeper and heavier bass (but not loose) with somewhat improved dynamic range. I have to lower output level of subwoofer in order to compensate for increase in bass. There was cracking noise initially but subsided after half an hour of burn-in.
   
  Even with tube buffer (with a pair of NOS RCA 6SN7 tubes) connected to pre-amp output of FUN, the sound is not warmer than when DA1852 DAC module was in place. True sound quality can only be assessed after perhaps 100 hours of burn-in. Right now configuration of my upgraded FUN DAC is exactly the same as version A of Sparrow (DIR9001/DA8741/ACSS/Diamond) other than power supplies. So if you only need an affordable standalone DAC, perhaps Sparrow is a better choice than FUN for its lower price and much smaller footprint.


----------



## les_garten

How much was the 8741 Board?  I didn't see a price on the webpage.
   
  I may be interested in getting one of these for the Sparrow and the FUN.


----------



## littletree76

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> How much was the 8741 Board?  I didn't see a price on the webpage.
> 
> I may be interested in getting one of these for the Sparrow and the FUN.


 

 USD 25 exclude shipping cost (refer to Audio-GD website for various regions).


----------



## muad

What???? I paid 30 usd plus shipping... 
   
  Anyways, nice to hear the module sounds good!


----------



## Currawong

The 8741 has quite a bit lower distortion than the 8740.  Nice to hear it makes a good improvement, especially if it's a bit smoother without sacrificing detail.


----------



## Cya|\|

Quote: 





littletree76 said:


> I ordered the new DA8741 DAC module 3 days ago and today EMS has delivered to my doorstep. The PCB looked the same as old DA8740 DAC module and pin 26 and 27 of WM8741 DAC converter have been shorted to ground plane. I suspect WM8741 is pin-to-pin compatible with WM8740. My old DA8740 DAC module was ruined because few pins have been shorted together while trying to solder pin 26/27 to ground with a sharp-tip underpowered soldering iron (you need iron hot enough to do swift soldering for good precision).
> 
> Replaced existing DA1852 DAC module with new DAC module (don't miss out white plastic washer underneath before securing the module with screw) and then soldered provided wire between new DAC module and 3.3V supply line of DIR module (refer to Audio-GD FUN's website). Initial impression is deeper and heavier bass (but not loose) with somewhat improved dynamic range. I have to lower output level of subwoofer in order to compensate for increase in bass. There was cracking noise initially but subsided after half an hour of burn-in.
> 
> Even with tube buffer (with a pair of NOS RCA 6SN7 tubes) connected to pre-amp output of FUN, the sound is not warmer than when DA1852 DAC module was in place. True sound quality can only be assessed after perhaps 100 hours of burn-in. Right now configuration of my upgraded FUN DAC is exactly the same as version A of Sparrow (DIR9001/DA8741/ACSS/Diamond) other than power supplies. So if you only need an affordable standalone DAC, perhaps Sparrow is a better choice than FUN for its lower price and much smaller footprint.


 

 How do you connect the subwoofer? Do you connect the rca output to the subwoofer input (and use it's crossover)?


----------



## littletree76

Yes, pre-amp output of FUN DAC to input of tube buffer and tube buffer's RCA L/R outputs to RCA L/R inputs of subwoofer as well as Virtue One class-T power amplifier through RCA splitter (the tube buffer has only a set of RCA outputs). Though the Virtue One power amplifier come with dedicated LFE (Low Frequency Effect) output for subwoofer, but I find that the mixer and crossover network in Mordaunt-Short Aviano 7 subwoofer performs much better than the LFE output of the power amplifier.
   
  Generally input of subwoofer can be connected through one of following outputs:
  - Speaker outputs of power/integrated amplifier.
  - Dedicated LFE output of power/integrated amplifier.
  - Left/right line outputs of pre-amplifier/DAC.
   
  Crossover network in subwoofer is bypassed whenever LFE output is used as crossover processing is already done in amplifier.


----------



## tongson

Still waiting for my 8741 to arrive. The modded 8740 is serving me well for the moment.
   
  I used a 30W soldering iron to short 26 and 27. I applied solder to the wire (to GND) first then soldered it between 26 and 27. Perfect.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





tongson said:


> Still waiting for my 8741 to arrive. The modded 8740 is serving me well for the moment.
> 
> I used a 30W soldering iron to short 26 and 27. I applied solder to the wire (to GND) first then soldered it between 26 and 27. Perfect.


 

 Will be interesting to hear the comparison of the Modd'd 8740 vs 8741, keep us up to date!


----------



## shampoosuicide

Guys, did anyone purchase a unit within a week of the release of the new module?
   
  I acquired a Sparrow just a week before they announced the WM8741 module, and am trying to negotiate a fair price for the module, as it seems fairly unreasonable that I should have to pay the full price, when they could have informed me of the upgrade when I ordered, and especially when I had asked if any new modules were due for release (I was told only in early 2011).
   
  They've offered $20 (full price is $25), excluding shipping cost. Would you consider that a reasonable compromise? I personally feel that I shouldn't have to pay for shipping as well, but maybe I'm just tight.


----------



## haloxt

I suggest you find someone in your country who is about to purchase something from audio-gd to receive your module if you trust him. Then he can ship it to you, you covering just domestic shipping (or no shipping if you can pick it up in person).
   
  Another way is to just hold off buying the module if you plan to buy something else from audio-gd in the near future (good excuse to buy more stuff ).


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





muad said:


> What???? I paid 30 usd plus shipping...
> 
> Anyways, nice to hear the module sounds good!


 

 I was quoted the same amount as well. Anyway, to my surprise Kingwa emailed me a few days ago saying it was a mistake as USD25 was quoted to a few customers, so to be fair he decided to refund USD5 to me the next day. Now surely that is an honest and great customer service!


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> I was quoted the same amount as well. Anyway, to my surprise Kingwa emailed me a few days ago saying it was a mistake as USD25 was quoted to a few customers, so to be fair he decided to refund USD5 to me the next day. Now surely that is an honest and great customer service!


 


 For some strange reason, the price for that module is not listed on the web page??  The price is blank.


----------



## muad

Quote: 





> I was quoted the same amount as well. Anyway, to my surprise Kingwa emailed me a few days ago saying it was a mistake as USD25 was quoted to a few customers, so to be fair he decided to refund USD5 to me the next day. Now surely that is an honest and great customer service


 
   
  Same thing happened to me yesterday 
   
  Pretty damn awesome!!!


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote: 





shampoosuicide said:


> Guys, did anyone purchase a unit within a week of the release of the new module?
> 
> I acquired a Sparrow just a week before they announced the WM8741 module, and am trying to negotiate a fair price for the module, as it seems fairly unreasonable that I should have to pay the full price, when they could have informed me of the upgrade when I ordered, and especially when I had asked if any new modules were due for release (I was told only in early 2011).
> 
> They've offered $20 (full price is $25), excluding shipping cost. Would you consider that a reasonable compromise? I personally feel that I shouldn't have to pay for shipping as well, but maybe I'm just tight.


 

 So I told Audio-gd I didn't think I should have to pay the shipping charge, and was refunded without a word. $5 off retail - I suppose that's their idea of a reasonable compromise?


----------



## haloxt

I don't know the exact circumstances for audio-gd to tell you no new modules until early 2011 and then release the new dac module so soon. Was the time interval between 2-3 weeks? It is possible that, when they told you no new modules, they had yet to realize the wm8741 would be a good dac module. Because of this possibility I can't blame audio-gd of anything with certainty, except of not wanting to lose money on shipping.
   
  If that is the case, it's just unlucky timing, and I would just take the small discount offered and swallow the shipping cost, or try to find someone purchasing from audio-gd in your current country and combine shipping. Or just keep the ad1852, it sounds really good already in my opinion, set it to 4x oversampling for a less strident sound.


----------



## Nachash

I'm a little noob about amps and dacs... little question: could i use the fun as a DAC and an AMP at the same time? I mean, straight from the D2+/PC to the fun and then from the headphone out to the (future) ad2000?
   
   
  It is gonna be my first dac/amp, would this be a good dac/amp for the ad2000?


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> I don't know the exact circumstances for audio-gd to tell you no new modules until early 2011 and then release the new dac module so soon. Was the time interval between 2-3 weeks? It is possible that, when they told you no new modules, they had yet to realize the wm8741 would be a good dac module. Because of this possibility I can't blame audio-gd of anything with certainty, except of not wanting to lose money on shipping.
> 
> If that is the case, it's just unlucky timing, and I would just take the small discount offered and swallow the shipping cost, or try to find someone purchasing from audio-gd in your current country and combine shipping. Or just keep the ad1852, it sounds really good already in my opinion, set it to 4x oversampling for a less strident sound.


 

 I made my order just a week before they put up the notification for the new module - there is no reason they couldn't have informed of the upgrade / the possibility of an impending upgrade.


----------



## haloxt

Nachash, yes, you can use both together by inputting digital (usb, coax/bnx, or optical) into it. Good idea since this way they will stay in current mode and avoid an I/V conversion between dac and amp.
   
  Shampoo, what was the exact date they shipped out the sparrow to you? If you haven't tried asking audio-gd yet, maybe both of you would be satisfied with splitting the shipping cost?


----------



## tongson

A week or a month makes no difference. They can decide tomorrow that another module is better.
   
  When dealing with a fast moving company expect to encounter bad timing.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'm sure Kingwa is going to hate me for suggesting this but just for FUN I wonder if an  ESS 9006 based DAC module might be possible...or maybe even a 9008 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Peete.


----------



## audio-gd

ES9008 must work with software support while mulriple signal input , and its core voltage is 1.2V which is the FUN hasn't ,so there is no way can build a ES9008 in the FUN.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks for the quick reply Kingwa !.....well that's that WRT the ESS idea.
   
  Peete


----------



## RonO

As any of you receive the 8741 module, I'd appreciate if you could post a picture of the soldering you had to do to get this connected.  I've done soldering of wire to wire (car stereo installations) but never anything like soldering to a pin on a PCB, and I don't want to wreck the DIR module in the process.   I'm looking forward to hearing more observations on the new DAC as you all get the upgrade.   I've settled in on the AD1852, which via my speakers is great, but my already bright Denons are a bit too bright without soft2 or soft3 jumpers set. I'm hoping the 8741 will be "the" ticket.
   
  RonO


----------



## muad

I just installed mine today. Very easy soldering job, took about a minute. Just heat up the existing solder/pin and new wire while the module is installed. They should just melt together. I also added another tiny blob of solderer to reinforce it. It's only attaching one end of a wire to the dir9001 module.
   
  So far the module is very dynamic and the frequency response is much more level than the ad1852. The 1852 seemed to have a spike in the upper mids. Very noticeable with female vocals. The new 8741 and 8740 is flatter. Both are very detailed so far. Also as previously stated, the dynamics are excellent. The 8471 seems slightly better than the updated/modded 8740 but not very much. Keep in mind these impressions are very preliminary. The module only has 8hrs from audio-gd and 4 hrs since I have received it. Where as buying a new Fun/Sparrow has 100 hours from audio-gd. So it's gonna be a little while before I can do a side by side comparison between the 8740 and 8741. The 8741 could use a little smoothing out but it's already better than the as1852.  Im not gonna bother comparing the 1852 to it. The 8740/8741 sound much more natural  and smooth to me with excellent dynamics and detail, so it's not really worth doing the comparison.


----------



## littletree76

You can refer to Audio-GD FUN's website for connection diagram with a provided wire between DIR and DAC modules (in earlier posting of this forum as well). The wire pre-soldered to DA8741 module is rather stiff so it is much easier to handle than softer wire. The solder point (3.3V supply) in DIR module is on top of connector and not close to any components so there is no danger of damaging any components. Just melt old solder at the solder point with application of new solder at the same time before making joint.I guess newer WM8741 requires 3.3V supply which is not present in DAC module thus there is the need to bring it in from nearby DIR module.
   
  After installation of the new DA8741 module, listening with Denon D5000 from FUN's headphone output (low gain with volume at one o'clock) no longer sound too bright as compared with DA1852 module in place. I never like sound produced by favor jumper settings of soft2/soft3 in main PCB (J6x/J7x jumpers) as they affect dynamic range and clarity. Once DA8741 module has been installed, all connections should be removed from the four favor jumpers in main PCB.
   
  Note WM8741 gives better dynamic range and stronger bass, thus bass may become too strong to someone when Denon D5000/D2000 is in use. I have switched cushion pads since day one from original to those used for Beyerdynamic DT880/DT990 on my Denon D5000 to tighten/reduce bass response.
  
  Quote: 





rono said:


> As any of you receive the 8741 module, I'd appreciate if you could post a picture of the soldering you had to do to get this connected.  I've done soldering of wire to wire (car stereo installations) but never anything like soldering to a pin on a PCB, and I don't want to wreck the DIR module in the process.   I'm looking forward to hearing more observations on the new DAC as you all get the upgrade.   I've settled in on the AD1852, which via my speakers is great, but my already bright Denons are a bit too bright without soft2 or soft3 jumpers set. I'm hoping the 8741 will be "the" ticket.
> 
> RonO


----------



## muad

I didn't notice an increase in bass, but that's probably because I'm coming from the 8740 module.
   
  My initial listening impressions were using the dac as a preamp to my speaker rig. I just switched to my k701's and am extremely impressed. The headphones definitely scale better than my speaker rig. My experience with high end equipment is very very limited. I was under the impression that the ad1852's dynamics were due to it's sound signature (slight emphasis on upper mids) and thought that a flat signature would never sound as dynamic. Well I was wrong!
   
  I'm hoping it doesn't change too much with burn-in. At least not for the worse...


----------



## muad

Incase anyone is interested here's a pic of an installed wm8741 module.... only the left side of the bottom wire had to be soldered to the dir9001 module.


----------



## les_garten

Great PIC, Thanx!


----------



## superchan

@muad 
   
  thhx for the picture
  look like you removed some caps on the OPA 
  it doen't look so hard to do it .


----------



## muad

You're very welcome guys, i thought it'd be easier than repeatedly trying to explain what installing the chip entails...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

All it is is a jumper from the 3.3V pin of the DIR 9001 module to the unused 5V pin on the 8741 module. I just got through reading about the 8740 tweak (which I will give a go tomorrow along with some additional FrankenWORKS tweaks).
   
  Also had a gawk at the new NFB-1 DAC...bloody tempting but I need another DAC like a hole in the head.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Peete.


----------



## muad

The 8740 tweak is a small taste of the 8741 module, they share a similar sound signature without that last bit of refinement. I really would love to hear other people's opinions about it, just to make sure it's not all in my head!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





muad said:


> The 8740 tweak is a small taste of the 8741 module, they share a similar sound signature without that last bit of refinement. I really would love to hear other people's opinions about it, just to make sure it's not all in my head!


 

 Thanks Muad for the impression...the funny thing is, all of this stuff _really is_ in our heads Out of curiosity what level of similarity does the modified 8740 have with the 8741 ?
   
  Peete.


----------



## tongson

My 8741 and TE module are going to arrive today. I'll hold off putting in the TE module until I have burned in the 8741.
   
  Have been listening to the 8740 pretty much non-stop.


----------



## muad

The frequency response was quite similar. The detail, resolution, clarity and imaging seem better to me with the 8741. The modded 8740 seemed slightly fuzzy and less defined. I can't comment on the soundstage... I never paid enough attention to it. The thing is i don't really want to swap the old module back in to do a meaningful comparison. It's permanently attached to my dir9001 
   
  One thing, I haven't noticed any real burn-in changes...
   
  Oh and one other thing, the bass is different... I can't place my finger on it but it's very very tight with the wm8741. Somebody else mentioned that it seemed looser to them. It's definitely different on my end.


----------



## miyinan

Kingwa said they could put the WM8741 into the B version but has to solder one more wire which has some to do with the power design. My question is: will this affect the sound quality as the power design of the B version was not originally designed for WM8741? I don't think that I need those premiun parts in the A version. So if this is not a problem, I will go for B version and add the WM8741 to it. Otherwise, I will go for the A version for another $100.
   
  Anybody has any idea of this.
   
  Thanks
   
  Lee


----------



## miyinan

I was considering A version FUN and Nuforce HDP. I almost decide to get the A version FUN now. But I am not sure how good the FUN will work with active speakers.
   
  Say, I connect speakers to preamp out, will the FUN stop sending signal to the preamp out automatically when I plug headphones into the headphone jack? or I need to use some of the bottons to make this happen?
   
  Thanks
   
  Lee


----------



## muad

The lineout button on the front controls the preamp out/headphone. I like it because I don't have to unplug my phones when I want to listen to speakers. I really don't like the automatic ones.


----------



## miyinan

Thanks muad. So I can leave both headphones and speakers connected, and use the lineout button to swtich between them, right? If so, then I will just get the FUN!


----------



## muad

Quote: 





> So I can leave both headphones and speakers connected


 
  yup    this only works with the preamp out and headphone out. The dac out bypasses the volume control and the lineout switch.


----------



## miyinan

Thanks again, muad.


----------



## miyinan

Anyone has any idea of this? Also, if I want to change OPA to earth, moon or sun, which one should I install? I know that it's subjective and depends on personal preference. I am just trying to see which one is more popular.

  
  Quote: 





miyinan said:


> Kingwa said they could put the WM8741 into the B version but has to solder one more wire which has some to do with the power design. My question is: will this affect the sound quality as the power design of the B version was not originally designed for WM8741? I don't think that I need those premiun parts in the A version. So if this is not a problem, I will go for B version and add the WM8741 to it. Otherwise, I will go for the A version for another $100.
> 
> Anybody has any idea of this.
> 
> ...


----------



## les_garten

Earth is the most Popular by far.  I have all 3 and like the Earth the best.  Been listening to the earth for 2 years now.


----------



## miyinan

Thanks les_garten. How big is the improvement that earth brings over the stock opa2134? Also, do you have the A version or the Basic version?
   
  Quote: 





les_garten said:


> Earth is the most Popular by far.  I have all 3 and like the Earth the best.  Been listening to the earth for 2 years now.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





miyinan said:


> Thanks les_garten. How big is the improvement that earth brings over the stock opa2134? Also, do you have the A version or the Basic version?


 
   
  The Earth brings a more expansive and clearer soundstage. Details are more present with the Earth in place. The OPA2134 seems dull by comparison.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





miyinan said:


> Thanks les_garten. How big is the improvement that earth brings over the stock opa2134? Also, do you have the A version or the Basic version?


 


 I have the A version.  The Opamp was left out of mine, so I never heard the 2134.  But no worries with the Earth.


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> The Earth brings a more expansive and clearer soundstage. Details are more present with the Earth in place. The OPA2134 seems dull by comparison.


 


 Same conclusions for me.


----------



## miyinan

Thanks for your inputs guys


----------



## fourwed

I finally ordered the A-USB version and it has been delivered to my home few days ago. I connect it to my PC by USB, it sounds good. But the opamp is hard to be taken out from the socket, is there any special tool could be suggested?
   
  Besides, I could managed to upscale my music to 24/96 in foobar w/ asio4all, but is there any software / driver I can use to turn every sound in Windows XP / 7 to 24/96? It would be very useful when I watch movie / tv.


----------



## Pacha

I had hard time to get the opamp out of its socket also at first, it's really easy and loose afterwards.
  Try to use a small one like this http://www.design-one-haiti.com/images/100_pince1.jpg to catch both sides and pull gently but firmly and a very small screwdriver to make lever each side when possible. I made a scratch on the opamp but it's working fine.
  When you swap opamps be careful not to put the new one in the wrong direction otherwise you would burn something.


----------



## fourwed

Is the TE7022 in FUN Asynchronous USB?


----------



## miyinan

Will anyone help me share some light on the comparison between A version FUN and Nuforce's HDP?
   
  After shipping, the A version FUN would be a little cheaper than the HDP. Not sure exactly what parts used in the HDP as Nuforce doesn't disclose them, but I would not expect it uses as many premium parts as the A version FUN does. However, the HDP is a lot smaller which is nice. Although size is not my top priority, it's always good to have a tidier desk.
   
  I will use whatever I get with my K701s and HF2s as well as my AV40 speakers. Not sure which one to pick. I will not invest in any dedicated dac or amp in the near future, so please compare them as two dac/amp combos.
   
  Many thanks.
   
  Lee


----------



## muad

Well, the k701 sounded a little lean with original ad1852 dac. The wm8741 works perfectly with the k701. It keeps all the detail and dynamics while still giving a fuller sound. The bass is more present and precise. Oh and did I mention the dynamics   It's all very crisp and clean without any harshness. The amp section has the k701 under control! The Fun with the new wolfson and k701 sound so good that Im done looking for new headphones. Only problem is Im selling my audioengine a5's now because they pale in comparison to what Im getting from the headphones... I think the fun has maxed out what they can do! The ad1852 dac sounded better with my speakers because of the upper midrange and high frequency emphasis. It gave the illusion of detail and crispness but with a loss of tone...


----------



## TheDuke990

I received my 8741 today and the first impression was very nice details and good bass impact. Let's see what happen after some hours of burn in .


----------



## Currawong

muad: I guess this isn't the time to tell you that you ain't heard nothin' yet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I think I underestimated the improvement that the WM8741 would bring to the Fun.


----------



## haloxt

Audio-gd's higher priced gear are truer to the music and recording, but I think for newer audiophiles like myself it doesn't fit our preconceived notion of "high fidelity", and it presents music in a way different from our usual way of enjoying music, namely to always hear music as pleasant, playful and vibrant, even if the music is not (often not, actually). People who aren't critical audiophiles or haven't reached that stage yet, may simply not wish to hear the naked truth of their music, and may derive just as much enjoyment out of less revealing gear.


----------



## muad

Lol, most of the recording I have still sound like krap   For me the most notable improvement was that things sound more realistic now. I think the FR made that difference. The only thing Im not sure is the bass amount... but I'm sure as more people get the new dac we will get more opinions hopefully 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> muad: I guess this isn't the time to tell you that you ain't heard nothin' yet?


 
   
  Well it might still be a very long time before that happens, still dieing to hear a balanced R2R setup. But gotta get school career and life in order first...


----------



## miyinan

Anyone has tried all the OPA's (earth, moon and sun)? I am just about to purchase the FUN but trying to decide between OPA earth and OPA moon. I listen to a lot of rock, some jazz and a little pop sometimes and will use the FUN with my HF2s and K701s as well as my speakers (AV40s). Please help me to pick one that will let me enjoy my music the most.
   
  Many Thanks
   
  Lee


----------



## superchan

well i have a stupid question is it possible hook up little speakers to the FUN
  the speaker got 2 cable on it ?? its only the wires there are no connection it .


----------



## Currawong

miyinan: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/397691/audio-gd-discrete-op-amps-reviewed-opa-earth-opa-moon-opa-sun-v-2
   
  superchan: No, you need a power amp (speaker amp) or active speakers with a power amp built in.


----------



## Bojamijams

I don't suppose anyone compared the the FUN to the Yulong D100?


----------



## superchan

Quote: 





currawong said:


> miyinan: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/397691/audio-gd-discrete-op-amps-reviewed-opa-earth-opa-moon-opa-sun-v-2
> 
> superchan: No, you need a power amp (speaker amp) or active speakers with a power amp built in.


 

 thx for the info
   
  active speakers with a power amp built in
  I have that with that from a al in one pc set that i got it 10 years ago those are crappy speakers 
   
  what about this i have a A/V- receiver with a zone 2 there i can put two speakers on it and is also a whit and a red input for connecting it to pre amp ??
  So i can use this with the FUN ??


----------



## miyinan

Quote: 





currawong said:


> miyinan: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/397691/audio-gd-discrete-op-amps-reviewed-opa-earth-opa-moon-opa-sun-v-2


 
Thanks Currawong*,* I will check into that thread. Just an quick question though: On Audio-gd’s website, it says they (earth, moon and sun) are for users to replace the [size=10pt]DAC output chip OPA2134. I am newbie and a little confused by this. Does this mean that they will only benefit the dac out? Or will I be benefit from them if I only use the FUN as a dac/amp combo with my headphones and preamp out to my active speakers?[/size]
   
[size=10pt]Thanks again,[/size]
   
[size=10pt]Lee[/size]


----------



## littletree76

After upgraded DAC module from DA1852 to newer DA8741 about two weeks ago, I have been listening music with Denon D5000 headphone and following setup using FUN as pure DAC:
   
  iMac (iTunes / Airfoil utility) -> Airport Express (optical) -> FUN -> Yaqin SD-CD3 Tube Buffer -> KICAS Solid-State Headphone Amplifier (regular version) -> Denon D5000 Headphone
   
  Today I plugged the Denon D5000 headphone directly into headphone output of FUN (gain switched from high to low) to bypass the tube buffer and external KICAS headphone amplifier for evaluation. To my surprise, sound quality is quite close to that produced through chain of tube buffer and external KICAS headphone amplifier. High-end fatigue caused by DA1852 (tube buffer to eliminate) has gone with smoother sound yet dynamic is retained. Using built-in headphone output of FUN has advantage of cutting out pre-amplifier output to speakers when headphone is in use (you do not want speaker output to interfere particularly when open can is used).
   
  To those who use FUN as primary headphone amplifier, upgrading DAC module from DA1852 to DA8741 is definitely worthwhile.


----------



## haloxt

For modding the wm8740, do I just combine pins 26 and 27? Or do I also need to connect them to something else with a wire?


----------



## littletree76

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> For modding the wm8740, do I just combine pins 26 and 27? Or do I also need to connect them to something else with a wire?


 

 Short both pins together and connect a wire from the shorted pins to ground plane. There is big patch of ground plane near both pins, just scratch away protective layer with screw driver to expose small patch of copper layer of the ground plane for soldering.


----------



## miyinan

I have read that many people felt that the AD1852 with earth opa can sound a bit harsh and maybe the moon opa could be a better match with brighter headphones as it will smooth out the sound a bit. However, as the DA chip in the A version has been changed to WM8741, is the harshness still there when using the earth opa? is the moon opa still a better match with brighter headphones like hf2s and k701s.
   
  Thanks


----------



## RonO

Quote: 





miyinan said:


> I have read that many people felt that the AD1852 with earth opa can sound a bit harsh and maybe the moon opa could be a better match with brighter headphones as it will smooth out the sound a bit. However, as the DA chip in the A version has been changed to WM8741, is the harshness still there when using the earth opa? is the moon opa still a better match with brighter headphones like hf2s and k701s.
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  I've just started listening to my WM8741 with Earth with Denon D2000's, and it's considerably smoother then the AD1852, but just as detailed. (Zero burn in on the DAC) With AD1852 I was compelled to run SOFT2 or SOFT3 settings on the jumpers to make it so I didn't flinch. (AD1852 has over 500 hours on it) No need for the sound settings with the WM8741.
   
  In recent weeks, I'd given up on the AD1852 and gone back to the WM8740, which I appreciated more as I went along.  The 8741 is that and more.  My experience so far is much like Maud's post's of his experience. 
   
  I have a moon, and may have to give it another try, but from my sonic memory, I never liked the moon as much as the earth, somehow it seemed muddy compared to earth.  I'm going to try it again for a few days, and I'll post back.  That said, WM8741 + earth is the Bomb!  Clear detailed highs, but not harsh.  It would have been awesome to have the 8741 as the default when I first purchased the FUN.
   
  RonO


----------



## miyinan

Quote: 





rono said:


> I've just started listening to my WM8741 with Earth with Denon D2000's, and it's considerably smoother then the AD1852, but just as detailed. (Zero burn in on the DAC) With AD1852 I was compelled to run SOFT2 or SOFT3 settings on the jumpers to make it so I didn't flinch. (AD1852 has over 500 hours on it) No need for the sound settings with the WM8741.
> 
> In recent weeks, I'd given up on the AD1852 and gone back to the WM8740, which I appreciated more as I went along.  The 8741 is that and more.  My experience so far is much like Maud's post's of his experience.
> 
> ...


 


 Thanks for your input, RonO. I am leaning towards the opa earth now. Looking foward to your impression with opa moon as well
   
  Lee


----------



## miyinan

Just saw the review on the D100. Anyone has heard both FUN and D100?

  
  Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> I don't suppose anyone compared the the FUN to the Yulong D100?


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





miyinan said:


> Thanks Currawong*,* I will check into that thread. Just an quick question though: On Audio-gd’s website, it says they (earth, moon and sun) are for users to replace the [size=10pt]DAC output chip OPA2134. I am newbie and a little confused by this. Does this mean that they will only benefit the dac out? Or will I be benefit from them if I only use the FUN as a dac/amp combo with my headphones and preamp out to my active speakers?[/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]Thanks again,[/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]Lee[/size]


 

 Since the DAC outputs both by itself and to the headphone amp through the OPAMP, then it benefits either one.  
   
  The WM8741 has much lower distortion than the AD1852, so that would explain the sound being less harsh with as much or more detail.


----------



## miyinan

Thanks for your comment, Currawong.

  
  Quote: 





currawong said:


> Since the DAC outputs both by itself and to the headphone amp through the OPAMP, then it benefits either one.
> 
> The WM8741 has much lower distortion than the AD1852, so that would explain the sound being less harsh with as much or more detail.


----------



## superchan

used :OPA Earth
   
  replaced  AD1852 >>> WM8741
                 older usb module >>>>   *USB module TE7022*
   
*at the moment there is not much different *
  but is sound on some parts is much clear
   
  update info: all peoples with older version of  FUN  who don't plan to upgrade to higher device in the up comming years must upgrade to WM8741 module.
  the improved is so fine  that all the unclear sound is all gone  its sound smoother and the bass sound for me closser to mine taste.


----------



## fourwed

I think the postage would be high for you so I suggest to buy both opa earth and moon together. I do think that everyone has different taste on music.
   
  Quote: 





miyinan said:


> Thanks for your input, RonO. I am leaning towards the opa earth now. Looking foward to your impression with opa moon as well
> 
> Lee


----------



## miyinan

Thanks fourwed.


----------



## miyinan

How's the synergy the FUN has with Grados and K701s? Also, has anyone tried DT880s 600ohm with FUN. Will the FUN drive them well?
   
  And how good is the dac section in the FUN compared similar products at this price range ($300 to $500)? Which section is relatively better in the FUN (amp vs dac)?
   
  Thanks
   
  Lee


----------



## TheDuke990

Hi, I drive my Beyer 880 (600Ohm) with a Fun version A (first with AD1852 and now with Wolfson 8741) and I'm very happy with this combo. Also my good old MS1 works fine with the Fun.
  Unfortunately I have no experiences with other combos in the same price range. I only compared the Fun with my aune mini USB DAC and the Fun sounds a lot clearer and better.


----------



## miyinan

Thanks for your reply theDuke990. Do you find that the FUN has too much power for your MS1s? Do you have to keep the volume at very low level? What I am wondering is the imbalance at low volume, but it seems that the FUN has pretty good volume pot.


----------



## Cya|\|

The fun b version (with ad1852) sounds a little bit too harsh with the akg k701. Go for the A version with the w8741 if you want to use it with the k701.


----------



## miyinan

Quote: 





cya|\| said:


> The fun b version (with ad1852) sounds a little bit too harsh with the akg k701. Go for the A version with the w8741 if you want to use it with the k701.


 

 Thanks CyaN. I am considering the A version w/ earth opa. Should I use low gain or high gain with K701s? With grados, I'd assume that I need to select low gain, right?


----------



## TheDuke990

Quote: 





miyinan said:


> Thanks for your reply theDuke990. Do you find that the FUN has too much power for your MS1s? Do you have to keep the volume at very low level? What I am wondering is the imbalance at low volume, but it seems that the FUN has pretty good volume pot.


 

 I can drive both very well because the Fun have a gain switch and yes the volume pot is very good.
   
  btw I use an OPA earth as well.


----------



## miyinan

slim.a said his review that a SRC board along with DIR chip would be interesting. Kingwa already said on the website that there is will be no more upgrade to the FUN. So, my question is, what's the benefit of buying something with SRC instead of something doesn't have it, like the FUN? just lower jitter? And many dac's have implemented the ASRC which does upsampling. Will this be an advantage?
   
  Sorry that I am noob at these technical stuffs
   
  Thanks in advance
   
  Lee


----------



## olor1n

Very tempted to pull the trigger on the B version with the WM8741 option. I'm quite ignorant regarding the technical aspects of this unit but its modular design is very appealing. I only have an RA-1 clone and Fiio E7 as reference using Alessandro MS-1i cans and a macbook as source. With budget in mind and an upgrade to AKG 702 (hopefully further down the track) would this be the best option in my upgrade path? The alternatives I'm considering are the Matrix mini-i or a Matrix M-Stage with a stand alone dac.
   
  For a noob wanting their next purchase to be the end of the road would you guys recommend the B version of the FUN with the 3 opa modules for versatility? Can anyone comment on how the FUN pairs with the MS-1i and what components would provide the best result?
   
  Edit: A free upgrade to DIR8416 is offered in place of the default DIR9001 module allowing [size=x-small]192KHz/24Bit for coaxial and optical input. The default is described as neutral while the DIR8416 [/size][size=x-small]sounds slightly soft and rich. Should I request this upgrade?[/size]


----------



## haloxt

I have both DIR modules, the DIR9001 sounds somewhat more accurate and neutral, but DIR8416 grabs at your attention less, a bit more relaxed.
   
  For detailed and serious listening, I suggest DIR9001. For listening while multitasking, relaxing, or to slightly warm up harsh recordings, DIR8416. I set up a sparrow in a friend's sports bar and I prefer the somewhat less accurate DIR8416.


----------



## leeperry

two guys compared the DIP versions of CS8414(DIR8416 is a typo) Vs DIR9001 on that link:
http://www.audiyofan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7807
   
  they say that 9001 is clearer/tighter/more balanced but 8414 sounds
 "fuller", which can lead to a richer texture on a clear setup. one of
 them also says that the SS is wider on 8414, I have to the admit that
 the SS has always been amazing on the old Firestone Spitfire DAC(CS8414)..even stock.
   
  and that might change depending on the incoming coax jitter, because DIR9001 is rated for 50ps clock recovery...so feed 8414/8416 w/ a lower jitter, and they will drastically improve, it's all about chewing the receiver's job.


----------



## olor1n

Thanks for the reply haloxt. I'm going through the Sparrow official thread and am again reconsidering my options. The Sparrow would've been perfect for me if it also had analogue input and true line out other than through the headphone jack.
   
  In pouring through these threads I've also learned that my macbook headphone out also serves as an optical out and can therefore be connected to a dac this way instead of usb. I like the notion of freeing up a usb slot but wouldn't using the optical out employ the macbook's soundcard and color the sound output?


----------



## Currawong

leeperry: Interesting.  That's something Kingwa should probably look into with future gear, as I don't think he is tweaking the Fun any more.  I think he has had enough "fun" with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  olor1n: The optical output is digital, just like USB output is digital, so as long as you have the Sound Enhancer and EQ off in iTunes, then no problem.


----------



## olor1n

Thanks for the reply guys, and again I apologize for what may be stupid questions and long winded rants but I'm new to all this and am looking for an upgrade to my entry level setup (macbook, ipods + lod, RA-1 clone, Fiio E7 and MS-1i). I want this upgrade to be the end of the road for me, as I'm not after reference level nor do I have the time or finances to pursue the crazy quest you guys are on. I'm hoping for at least a noticeable improvement, and not just a different sound, to justify the expense and also a unit that meets my requirements of versatility (for adding Audioengine A5s and upgrading to AKG 701/702s down the track).
   
  The FUN is the perfect fit but I'm concerned I'd compromise sound quality by going the "all in one" option rather than just connecting an ipod through lod to a standalone amp like the Matrix M-stage (active speakers still viable in future). With my budget constraints this option would mean doing away with a standalone dac and just relying on the ipod's dac (5th gen classic or 2nd gen touch). It would also mean doing away with my macbook as source which, considering my library is composed of v0 and 320kbps mp3s and I don't employ anything like foobar for high sample or bit perfect playback, may not be such a loss. I would essentially be directing my budget towards amplification.
   
  I'm unclear on the amp section of the FUN. The OP in his/her review praises the result when using the FUN's amp section with a higher end dac as source. Is this testament to how good the FUN's amp section is or is it more due to the better source? Also when referring to the ACSS module and diamond output stage, my limited understanding is that it is the default amp configuration for the FUN while the Earth, Sun and Moon modules are alternatives. Is this default configuration also employed in the B versions of their products including the Sparrow?
   
  Sorry about the long post. Any insight, especially if there are any conceivable gains when using the Alessandro MS-1i, is greatly appreciated. I'm sick of contemplating and really want to make a decision asap.


----------



## bobxxxbob

I have the MS-1i and Fun combination and it is really good sounding system. Fun improves the clarity and control of MS-1i to some extend. The change is by no means a dramatic but it's still hard to go back to listening only from iPod's phone out.
  Kingwa suggested me to get Moon opa for MS-1i so I bought it but I think the stock opa works better with MS-1i. Moon smoothens things up too much for my liking. I Really like the impact stock opa brought. However I broke the stock opa when removing it from the socket so I can't go back. But that is not much of a problem because Moon is a lot better than stock for my K-701.
  I think you should not consider K-702 an upgrade to MS-1i. The phones are different but equally good for their purposes.
  I hope you find this helpful.


----------



## olor1n

Hi bobxxxbob, thanks for your insight. Fortunately my questions here were answered in another thread and I've pulled the trigger after great consideration. I've just placed my order for the B version with stock DIR9001 and upgrade to WM8741 and TE7702. I was literally about to send the payment through when I glimpsed your reply and decided to add the Moon to the order just in case (had the Earth already added based on the feedback on how it pairs with the WM8741). The FUN should arrive with the stock opa so it'll be interesting to see if I agree with your findings (if not at least I'll have the other opas for tweaking). What version and configuration of the FUN do you have?
   
  Also appreciate your input on the 702 vs MS1-1i but I don't really want to think about that until around Christmas... (this whole decision on the FUN was traumatic enough. I wasted my weekend agonising over this!)


----------



## matthewh133

Anyone have any experience using the FUN with a set of ATH-AD900s? Tossing up between this or maybe a HDP. Hmm..


----------



## bobxxxbob

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Hi bobxxxbob, thanks for your insight. Fortunately my questions here were answered in another thread and I've pulled the trigger after great consideration. I've just placed my order for the B version with stock DIR9001 and upgrade to WM8741 and TE7702. I was literally about to send the payment through when I glimpsed your reply and decided to add the Moon to the order just in case (had the Earth already added based on the feedback on how it pairs with the WM8741). The FUN should arrive with the stock opa so it'll be interesting to see if I agree with your findings (if not at least I'll have the other opas for tweaking). What version and configuration of the FUN do you have?
> 
> Also appreciate your input on the 702 vs MS1-1i but I don't really want to think about that until around Christmas... (this whole decision on the FUN was traumatic enough. I wasted my weekend agonising over this!)


 
  I have the older A-version with ad1852


----------



## RonO

Quote: 





miyinan said:


> Thanks for your input, RonO. I am leaning towards the opa earth now. Looking foward to your impression with opa moon as well
> 
> Lee


 
  Lee,
   
  Finally getting back with some observations on the Moon.  I've been listening to the moon for a couple weeks, and for me personally, the difference between it and the earth are small.  Put it this way, I don't think I could tell in a A vs. B test which was which.  There are some subtle differences, the moon is a bit smoother, and on my Denons there is a different midrange sound.  The Earth seems brighter and to extend deeper. They both sound great, neither will disappoint.
   
  I think I'll be switching back and forth from time to time just to enjoy the different perspective the moon brings to a particular track vs. the earth. With the Fun I've got the best sound coming at me that I've ever had in my life.  I have to say when using the Fun and earth with my stereo speakers, 1982 JBL L56's (original owner) they sound so pristine, I pass hour after hour enveloped in the sound. 
   
  If I had a little more neutral headphone and could only pick one, the earth would be my choice, and for my JBL's it is the only choice.  It's been said before, for the extra $20 or so for the moon, it's worth having the option.  In the end you'll enjoy both, I sure do.
   
  RonO


----------



## HectorNavarro

I've got a question for all who have bought the audio-gd FUN from China:
   
  did you had to pay any import or customs tax at delivery? if so who has the courier USPS or UPS/DHL/FedEx?
   
  I'm assuming that if bought from Pacific Valve it's already imported and a cause of their markup.
   
  Thank you for your help, I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on this one...


----------



## olor1n

Disclaimer: The following statement is from a complete noob whose only point of reference is a Fiio E7 and RA-1 clone. This noob, however, is prone to instant buyer's remorse and is by nature a sceptic. This noob reserves the right to retract any of the ensuing bold statements at any time.
   
  My Audio-gd FUN arrived today. Been listening to it for about an hour through my Alessandro MS-1i. I'm well aware of the commonly held belief that the FUN requires a few hundred hours of burn in, but initial impressions are WOW!!!!! THIS IS IT! THE END ROAD!!! THANK YOU HEAD-FI FOR YOUR FAN BOYISH FOLLOWING OF AUDIO-GD... I NEVER WOULD'VE CONSIDERED IT OTHERWISE!!! OMG!!! WHERE'S THE BEST AND CHEAPEST PLACE TO ORDER AKG 702'S FROM???!!! What??!!! I THOUGHT YOU SAID THIS WAS THE END ROAD!!!! DAMN IT!!!


----------



## miyinan

Thanks again RonO for the impression. I enjoyed reading it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





rono said:


> Lee,
> 
> Finally getting back with some observations on the Moon.  I've been listening to the moon for a couple weeks, and for me personally, the difference between it and the earth are small.  Put it this way, I don't think I could tell in a A vs. B test which was which.  There are some subtle differences, the moon is a bit smoother, and on my Denons there is a different midrange sound.  The Earth seems brighter and to extend deeper. They both sound great, neither will disappoint.
> 
> ...


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





hectornavarro said:


> I've got a question for all who have bought the audio-gd FUN from China:
> 
> did you had to pay any import or customs tax at delivery? if so who has the courier USPS or UPS/DHL/FedEx?
> 
> ...


 


 I've bought lots of gear from A-GD and never paid a dime of Import tax in the US


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Disclaimer: The following statement is from a complete noob whose only point of reference is a Fiio E7 and RA-1 clone. This noob, however, is prone to instant buyer's remorse and is by nature a sceptic. This noob reserves the right to retract any of the ensuing bold statements at any time.
> 
> My Audio-gd FUN arrived today. Been listening to it for about an hour through my Alessandro MS-1i. I'm well aware of the commonly held belief that the FUN requires a few hundred hours of burn in, but initial impressions are WOW!!!!! THIS IS IT! THE END ROAD!!! THANK YOU HEAD-FI FOR YOUR FAN BOYISH FOLLOWING OF AUDIO-GD... I NEVER WOULD'VE CONSIDERED IT OTHERWISE!!! OMG!!! WHERE'S THE BEST AND CHEAPEST PLACE TO ORDER AKG 702'S FROM???!!! What??!!! I THOUGHT YOU SAID THIS WAS THE END ROAD!!!! DAMN IT!!!


 


 Sometimes there's a good reason for existence of FanBoiz!
   
  Have FUN...


----------



## Pacha

Quote: 





hectornavarro said:


> I've got a question for all who have bought the audio-gd FUN from China:
> 
> did you had to pay any import or customs tax at delivery? if so who has the courier USPS or UPS/DHL/FedEx?
> 
> ...


 


 If you order directly through Kingwa in China, ask for EMS as they usually don't charge customs fees at delivery. I had to pay taxes for my FUN with TNT, but with EMS I didn't pay anything for my DAC19DSP and C2, and so did slim.a for the same gear.
  YMMV though.


----------



## HectorNavarro

Thanks for the replies.
   
  I am asking because UPS/FedEx will always charge customs tax and USPS not, but I've never ordered anything from China.


----------



## olor1n

24 hours of burn in so far... should I continue on with stock or just install earth now and be done with it?
   
  Edit: How do you remove the opamp from the socket and install the earth module? Any tips for avoiding damage to the original opamp?


----------



## Currawong

The modules tended to go through periods of weird behaviour, so I'd give the whole unit, Earth included, a good 2 weeks switched on (total time).


----------



## leeperry

olor1n said:


> How do you remove the opamp from the socket and install the earth module? Any tips for avoiding damage to the original opamp?


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





leeperry said:


>


 

 I have assorted dental picks, fine screwdrivers, etc, I use to walk them out.
   
  If you can get a chip puller in there, than that too.


----------



## Pacha

Use a plier and go gently, trying to make lever on each side if you can. First removal is very strong, but it's extremely easy after that.
   
  You can go with Earth already as this one is quite long to burn-in.


----------



## miyinan

How good is the usb input on the FUN (A version) compared to other products at this price? And how does it compare to the Coax input? Will a usb-spdif converter like Musiland 01USD help to improve the SQ?
   
  Also, I owned the B version Sparrow before, is the A version FUN gonna be better? or they are pretty the same, just more functions on the FUN?


----------



## olor1n

Thanks for the tips guys. I tried using thin pliers initially but it seemed too forceful and likely to cause damage. I managed to remove the opamp by straightening a nappy pin and bending the end to make an L shaped hook. The opamp pins were bent slightly on one side when I got under the other side and lifted it out of the socket using the hook (I've straightened the pins so hopefully no damage done).
   
  I recall reading about better results when using a jumper to set sampling to 4x rather than the default 2x. My FUN has the WM8741. Would you guys still recommend the 96khz 4x setting and where would I place the jumper to achieve this?


----------



## Pacha

BTW, be aware of the plugging direction of the opamps to avoid frying anything.


----------



## olor1n

Considering the clarity presented at higher volume levels, I'm concerned about further abusing my already damaged hearing. The MS-1i is rated at 32ohms and 100dB sensitivity. I have no idea how these things relate to volume levels but I find the low gain setting with the dial between 9 and 10 o'clock to be ideal but I do tend to listen for extended periods. What dB levels would I be exposing myself to considering my headphones and would I be within range of what is considered to be safe levels?


----------



## olor1n

My setup is now macbook to FUN using usb and then the FUN's dac line out to RA-1 clone. As I've mentioned elsewhere my initial experience with amps was a favorable one, as the first amp I purchased was an RA-1 clone that I felt had great synergy with the MS-1i. The clone I have now is a replacement as the original unfortunately developed a fault. I was greatly disappointed with this lost synergy and attributed it to the fact the replacement was less of an RA-1 clone as it now has an added bass boost dial and additional switch to take the batteries out of the circuit when plugged into the power point.
   
  The ability however to feed the RA-1 a signal with the FUN's dac as source may have saved it from neglect. Prior to acquiring the FUN I could only go headphone out of macbook or Fiio E7, which was not ideal as in both cases I was double amping and with the E7 I did not enjoy the sound produced by its WM8740 dac. In both instances the energy and body I enjoyed in the original clone was somewhat present but there seemed to be a veil that detracted from the shimmering clarity of that original amp. With the FUN's WM8741 dac (Earth installed) that clarity is back but it's still coupled with a grungy flavor that's enjoyable without harshness or clipping. At the moment, with the FUN getting close to 100 hour burn in, I prefer the sound from my RA-1 clone. The FUN's amp stage in comparison is more fatiguing, although the soundstage, clarity and separation of instruments is in another league. This may be confounding to some, but to my noob ears the RA-1 has a rocking, full bodied, analogue flavor that I find more engaging while the FUN with its amp stage is highly defined, more clinical and digital. I recall seeing Queens of the Stone Age a few years ago at a small venue and it was amazing but then seeing my favorite band Radiohead seated in an arena and finding it a detached and sterile experience. I find myself plugging into the RA-1 more even though its deficiencies when compared to the FUN's amp is apparent.
   
  I'm sure the FUN's amp/dac combo will improve over time (although don't get me wrong, it is pretty damn good at the moment). One amp is not "better" than the other as such, just different flavors and I'm glad I can choose between the two.
   
  On another note, before when going the Fiio E7 amp/dac out of usb I was not able to change volume on the macbook itself but with the FUN through usb I can. My sound settings show as usb TE7022 w/ SPDIF on mac os. I reduce the volume on the macbook two notches from max as it allows me to go past the imbalance stage on the RA-1 but I wonder if I'm still getting "true" line out.


----------



## les_garten

Can you be more specific here about RA-1 clone.
   
  I mean, are you referring to a CMOY?
   
  RA-1 clone is kinda nebulous.


----------



## olor1n

Yeah like I said I'm not sure if it's an RA-1 clone anymore or a cmoy that uses a JRC4556 dual opamp. Where do you draw the distinction? The original didn't have the bass boost and power supply switch and certainly had better synergy with my MS-1i even though the chain was flawed. They both used Audiophiler 4.7uF film capacitors, Vishay Dale 1% metal resistors, LM317 regulators and powered off 2 9v batteries or 24v power adapter. I don't know how these relate to sound or if the Grado's RA-1 even uses the same components but I do know I like what I hear out of my MS-1i.


----------



## olor1n

Unfortunately this thread seems to have died but I'll ask these questions here anyway. My FUN is connected via usb. Through the Audio MIDI setup utility on my macbook the FUN appears as TE7022 Audio w/ SPDIF with options to change sample rate and bit depth. Default settings are 44100 Hz and 2ch-16bit. Is there any benefit to changing these settings to 96000 Hz and 2ch-24bit to match the capability of the TE7022 module? Would it mean that my flacs, v0 and 320kpbs mp3s are upsampled by my macbook?
   
  Also why am I able to change volume levels on my macbook if usb provides a true line out? My Fiio E7 does not allow this. Will decreasing volume on the macbook sacrifice bit perfect playback like changing levels in itunes itself?


----------



## Currawong

I've not heard, nor heard of any problems using the digital volume control in Mac OS X or in iTunes on a Mac. Various "experts" tend to recommend leaving both at maximum, which would be bit-perfect output. 
   
  As for setting the output to 24/96, I've noticed no difference at all, even with much better equipment.  Supposedly, setting the output for the same sample rate as the file being played is best.  Since all my files are a jumble of sample rates, I just set the output to 24/96 and left it at that.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I've not heard, nor heard of any problems using the digital volume control in Mac OS X or in iTunes on a Mac. Various "experts" tend to recommend leaving both at maximum, which would be bit-perfect output.
> 
> As for setting the output to 24/96, I've noticed no difference at all, even with much better equipment.  Supposedly, setting the output for the same sample rate as the file being played is best.  Since all my files are a jumble of sample rates, I just set the output to 24/96 and left it at that.


 

 My observations and experiences agree with yours.


----------



## olor1n

I've just installed Moon after about 2 weeks with Earth. Really liking Moon so far but the Earth seems to have finally smoothed out after that long burn in period. Will be interesting to do a proper comparison once Moon is burned in. Kinda regretting passing on Sun.


----------



## EraserXIV

I've read that the new 8741 DA can be added to an old FUN through a little DIY soldering. Does anyone know or has anyone asked kingwa whether or not this makes it inferior to the new FUN with a 8741 that does not require the soldering?


----------



## olor1n

I think they're the same. The newer units don't necessarily have newer components for better pairing with the WM8471 module. Mine came with the module installed as requested, only saving me from having to do the soldering myself.
   
  Of more interest would be whether the better components in the A version is a better match for the WM8471 and whether there would even be a perceivable difference.


----------



## EraserXIV

Have you taken a peek inside your FUN to see if it doesn't have the soldering from the DIR to the DA?


----------



## olor1n

It does have the soldering from the DIR to the DAC. You asked if the "old" FUN which required soldering yourself was inferior to the "new" FUN with WM8471 installed. I'm saying that the only difference is you don't have to do the soldering yourself. I don't believe there's been a change to the other components to better accommodate the WM8471.


----------



## EraserXIV

Ah alright, thanks for answering


----------



## olor1n

Have gone back to Earth after a few days with Moon. Yeah, this is where it's at! Clarity and separation is more defined, although I did enjoy Moon's warmer and intimate presentation on certain tracks. Given Moon only had about 100 hours burn in and may open up in terms of soundstage after more time, I agree with most that Earth is the go to for definition and neutrality. I'm really glad these modules present distinctly different flavors as it should cover the bases for future additions to my chain (I now have an Audio Technica M50 on the way and if the criticisms of recessed mids are valid I'll have Moon to experiment with). For what it's worth, I can't recommend this amp/dac enough. My earlier comments regarding the amp section was overly critical and is now invalid. The FUN will sound great from the get go but a long burn in will reveal its true potential. Could not be happier with my choice.
   
  On another minor note, does any one else notice a slight crunchy static sound when the volume dial is adjusted after first turning the amp on or plugging cans in? After a careless ear shattering incident with my Fiio E7, I've now made it a habit to ensure volume is on minimum setting and that no tracks are being played when starting off. However as I adjust the volume on the FUN to preference I notice the static sound predominantly on the left ear. A few turns of the volume dial up and down the static disappears and I'm left the FUN's fantastic black background before playing my music. Again this is not an issue and I figure it may correspond to the current being fed to the cans, but does anyone else notice this?


----------



## les_garten

Sounds like a dirty POT.
   
  IF you can get the knob off and have some Deoxit, you can probably fix it, and make it even quieter.
   
  I have not had the knob off mine as yet.  Ask KW how to get it off.  Some of the A-GD knobs are a pain to get off.  I usually use a little heat from a blow dryer, and wiggle it off.
   
  Then sit it with the POT shaft pointing up, spray the shaft with deoxit or Cramolyn.
   
  Work the POT full range about a zillion times.  Leave it sitting vertical for a day or so. Every couple hours spray a little more and roll the POT.
   
  Usually will be quiet for years after that IME.
   
  Another option, since he uses plugs now is to Pull the POT and open it and clean it.


----------



## olor1n

Hi les-garten, thanks for the reply. If there's no other detrimental effect to a dirty pot other than the static I outlined I'll leave it. Like I said it disappears after a few turns of the dial, no big deal... I just hope it doesn't cause anything to deteriorate.


----------



## middachten

You might just want to observe the behavior of the pot-meter for some time. The ones used in the gd-audio equipment are not very dust-prone. It could well be that the initial contact pressure is not optimal. Usually the conductive layer in the pot needs some 'rubbing in'. The fact that it disappears after a few turns of the dial point to this. If the static gets worse contact gd-audio. There could be a problem with the pot.
   
  BTW its a good habit to always return the pot to zero. This will save you from hearing damage and it will reduce the 'dipping' of the conductive layer of the pot when it stays in the same position.
   
  ps: I don't own a FUN (yet) this response is based on general experience with audio electronics. I'm following this topic because I'm trying to decide about which price level I want to step on the audio-gd bandwagon. The Fun seems to give incredible value if you also need it as a preamp to feed a power amp (like me).


----------



## olor1n

Hi middachten, thanks for your input. It's always great to get another angle on things. I did email Kingwa and he reassured me;
   
_The noise not problems.
 The FUN without couple caps and applied the DC serve circuits for better sound. And the volume pot is work on I/V model, slight DC level will has noise while turn the volume but some minutes later the DC level will lose because the DC serve work stabilization.
 But the gear just power on and it want some minutes for the circuits stabilization so this time maybe can hear some noise while turn the volume pot through high sensitive headphone_
   
  so I'm not too concerned with it. My OCD will dictate that I make sure it doesn't get worse over time though as you've suggested.
   
  Also good luck on your next purchase. Sounds like you're sold on Audio-GD, and if it has any bearing, I doubt you'd be disappointed with the decision. I've found Audio-GD to be a pleasure to deal with.


----------



## middachten

The answer you received is in line with my thoughts. I actually had a BTW-2 added to my initial response: There is likely some DC action going on.
  And the answer from Kingwa is a perfect explanation for the fact that the problem is gone after a short while. It also says something about the DC servo timing: slow.....  I like that!


----------



## les_garten

If it's not bothering you to hear the scratch, no problemmo.  It may get dirtier and more obnoxious over time, or stay like it is for a long time.


----------



## olor1n

If it is a dirty pot or any other fault, wouldn't the scratchy static persist rather than disappear after a few turns of the dial?


----------



## les_garten

Usually, IME, you only hear it when moving the POT, at least they stay that way a long time.
   
  Later they can get noisy all the time.
   
  Most Audiophiles complain and notice LONG before it becomes constant.


----------



## olor1n

When I asked about the static sound persisting if it was a dirty pot I didn't mean continued static while the pot was set. Let me clarify. There is no static or hum when the volume dial is set, regardless of position. The noise only occurs while first adjusting the volume dial after turning the amp on or plugging cans in. After a few turns up and down, the noise disappears entirely. The background is completely black when adjusting the pot after the first few turns.
   
  So to put my OCD to rest, would you say that if it was a dirty pot I would have to put up with the noise every time I adjust the volume? That's not the case with my amp.


----------



## les_garten

Doesn't sound like it from the DC servo description above.  Sounds like nothing to worry about.
   
  The Deoxit won't hurt it though.


----------



## Fr3aKsTyLeR

Someone got experiences with FUN(Basic)+Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 and 250ohm combos? Because I'm now sure that i will buy 770 but only problem is that which of these combos sound better. And which of the OPA's sound best with these headphones? I'm mainly using the incoming combo at listening music(mainly metal like disturbed or tarot but basshunter and cascada goes too) meanwhile i'm playing. Sometimes watch movies too.


----------



## N0sferatu

I'm thinking about buying the GD FUN Version A with the AD1852, DIR9001 and FET output buffers.  Two questions...
   
  1.) How will this sound with Grado SR80, Sennheiser HD595, and Denon AH-D7000?
   
  2.) How easy is it to swap out OPAMPs on this thing?  I have some old LM4562NA sitting around in my old X-Meridian sound card I wouldn't mind plugging in.  Are they socket based or what?  I don't see it clear cut in the pictures...
   
  Thanks!


----------



## olor1n

I've had minor ongoing issues with my volume pot which I could have lived, but now my headphone jack looks like it may need to be replaced. I've spoken to Kingwa about my issues and to save me the hassle and expense of sending the Fun back for warranty repair, he kindly offered to send me a replacement jack and possibly a new pot.
   
  Now I don't have a DIY bone in my body but I'm willing to give this avenue a try first as these issues unfortunately affect sound quality and need to be addressed. Kingwa did say the headphone jack replacement should only require a screwdriver and when I had a quick look inside the Fun (B version) the socket and the small board it sits on seems be held in place by a single screw just like the other modules. I am however concerned about the cables and how the socket connects to the main board. I'm hoping there's no soldering involved.
   
  The volume pot on the other hand seems like it may be a trickier proposition. My issue with the pot is minor and I can live with it but Kingwa did offer to send a replacement pot if I was confident in doing that myself as well. He also suggested I seek advice here as he was afraid his instructions may be lost in translation.
   
  Can any one provide any insight into how I'd go about replacing mainly the headphone jack but also the volume pot was well? Thanks folks.


----------



## les_garten

Where do you live?
  
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> I've had minor ongoing issues with my volume pot which I could have lived, but now my headphone jack looks like it may need to be replaced. I've spoken to Kingwa about my issues and to save me the hassle and expense of sending the Fun back for warranty repair, he kindly offered to send me a replacement jack and possibly a new pot.
> 
> Now I don't have a DIY bone in my body but I'm willing to give this avenue a try first as these issues unfortunately affect sound quality and need to be addressed. Kingwa did say the headphone jack replacement should only require a screwdriver and when I had a quick look inside the Fun (B version) the socket and the small board it sits on seems be held in place by a single screw just like the other modules. I am however concerned about the cables and how the socket connects to the main board. I'm hoping there's no soldering involved.
> 
> ...


 



 It sounds great with the Multitude of Grados I own, The Senn 650 and the D5000 if that helps.  IMO, you will have no issues.
   
  Those Opamps will work Fine.  I have some of them in my Claro Halo
  Quote: 





n0sferatu said:


> I'm thinking about buying the GD FUN Version A with the AD1852, DIR9001 and FET output buffers.  Two questions...
> 
> 1.) How will this sound with Grado SR80, Sennheiser HD595, and Denon AH-D7000?
> 
> ...


----------



## olor1n

Removing the headphone jack from the Fun (B version) was simple enough and it is just the one screw holding it place. Looking at the socket, it bemuses me as to what may be causing the issue I'm having with the jack (namely a very subtle channel imbalance that sometimes results in a thinner, less dynamic sound, but is fixed when i rotate the 1/8" to 1/4" adapter while it is plugged in to find the balanced "sweet" spot). I'm pretty sure it's not the adapter or the plug on the headphone cable as I've tested a number of adapters and also different headphones in the Fun's jack with the same result. I've also tested those adapters and plugs on my other amp and the 1/8" of my cans out of other sources.
   
  I've pulled the jack out of the Fun and have plugged all my adapters into the socket to see if there's a contact issue. The 3 clamps on the socket seem to connect and clamp properly and the adapters look like they go all the way in was well. The only other thing was the gold colored lining inside the mouth of the jack seems to have peeled off on one side (not sure if that would have any bearing). It may be the cable connecting the jack's small board to the main board but I don't understand how turning the adapter in the jack would fix any imbalance issues with that cable. Anyway I'll wait to receive the replacement jack from Audio-GD.
   
  Kingwa sent this attachment that I missed initially. Any ideas as to how I'd go about removing the volume pot?


----------



## srisaikat

I got my Fun version A just a month ago. After continuous listening I felt the DAC out is more relaxing than Pre-Amp out. In my case I found DAC out and Pre-Amp out in same output power level when volume kept at 1 with high gain in pre-amp mode. Whatever that's not the isuue, I have my listening with total jumper free setting and with Earth Module. I felt less fatigue with DAC out in long session. Pre-Amp out has a bit little more bass response but lower on middle high frequency where as I found DAC out has more natural, live and relaxing for my ear. They both have almost 99.9% same details but the feelings are different but very close. If I have to give overall score then Pre-Amp out will get 9 whereas DAC out will 9.5.


----------



## Bblitz

Interesting. I got my Fun yesterday. I have no clue about jumpers etc but will compare the DAC out with the Pre out


----------



## olor1n

Really developing a greater appreciation of Moon after mainly having Earth as default.


----------



## srisaikat

One more thing I noticed about my FUN version A that when I use preamp mode (line out) the stereo balance shifted little bit towards left but for DAC out it is vice versa which I think is in middle. It is disappointing as Mr. Kingwa claimed there will be 'benefit from the ACSS gain circuits' so practically it is not, at least not for my particular unit. I think there may little error in _Calibration,_ so it is a issue of quality control.


----------



## srisaikat

I know I may going to write most disputed and disturbing article ever in this thread, but it is all my true experience that is what I heard on my own. I even could not sleep peacefully for last several days for not telling the truth to somebody about my FUN version A. What is the more better place to express my concern than this forum. Please pardon me for my English and inexperience behavior. I also emailed my whole experience to Mr. Kingwa. Here is my fact........
   
I am shocked, I am stunned and I became speechless when first time did this test. I bought my FUN by reading an inspired thread or articles on head-fi forum. Please explain if someone can. 
   
I compared the line out, dac out of FUN and direct RCA out put of my DVD player using with my integrated amplifier connecting them at a time with three separate RCA input (My integrated amp has 4 standard RCA input excluding phono). 
   
The connection was in following order; I took the Digital coax output of my LG DVD (dam cheap pricing) player and connect it with coax input of Fun (version A), then connect both output (DAC & Line out of fun) with two separate RCA inputs of my Integrated amplifier, now at the same I connected the stereo RCA output of the DVD directly to another RCA input of Integrated amplifier. The integrated amplifier has soft switching system to switch between different inputs. I made change in audio setup of DVD player by selecting Bit Stream as digital output, later I also tried selecting PCM as digital output (there are two options available for digital output, PCM and Bit Stream on this LG DVD Player). 
   
I set the volume of Fun at 1 with high gain option for Line out, to get same output level like DAC to compare. I used earth module instead of stock one. I auditioned through speakers as well as by headphones (three way speakers system – built of 10” woofer, 4” mid range speaker and 2” tweeter. Headphones used were Grado SR-80, Etymotic ER-4S) connected with the integrated amplifier. 
   
Now playing same music in three different ways by quick switching between the inputs I heard no difference at all, I am repeating no difference at all in details or quality in any frequency range except only difference was in Lineout with the volume control of FUN that is difference in sound pressure level and very very tiny bit of higher bass response in exchange of very tiny bit of lower response in middle high frequency, which I bet will be ignored by 9999 people out of 10,000. But where is the “Applied ACSS”? Where is the magic of *WM8741*? Was all these just a gimmick? 
   
I do not know whether the LG DVD player was fitted with any hi-fi DAC chip or not within only $60, but I know my Audio-gd FUN version was $428 (including shipping). I found no noise or humming at all in all these three outputs. But my question is, how the RCA (direct) output of $60 LG DVD could be same quality with the ACSS applied WM8741 equipped Audio GD Fun. 
   
It’s appeared to be the FUN was just by-passing the same output of LG DVD through its hi-fi components and circuits. Please give me a reply explaining possible reason or if I did any thing wrong. Why should anyone buy any DAC especially like FUN?


----------



## les_garten

I could pick 10 people off the street and there is a high chance all of them would say the same thing you do listening to that setup.
   
  Add those hypothetical data points to your observations.
   
  So, what are the possibilities here:
   
  1) All sounds are the same, Audiophilia is a scam
  2) All sounds are the same, your integrated amp homogenizes the crap out of everything you put in it so that everything sounds the same
  3) You have not developed the listening skills to be able to discern subtlety in gear presentation.
  4) You are listening in an environment setup poorly for resolution, with backwaves, resonances, standing waves, etc.  Since it sounds like you're doing this with speakers.  Ohhh, just re-read and saw you used headphones.
  5) Your test ws of too short a duration.
   
  I'm sure I missed some options, please pipe them in folks.
   
  My experience with gear is that it may take a while to appreciate it.  If a piece of gear is a step up, you notice it the most when you take it down after a week or so.
   
  You didn't mention how you were testing "sameness".  I usually fixate on a "portion" of a song or maybe an instrument in a piece.  Like maybe just listen to a phrase over and over,   Or Follow an instrument,like the Kick drum and the bass Guitar in Hotel California -- Hell Freezes Over.
   
  Keep in mind that hearing is a learned skill you aren't born with it.  Do you know for sure if you have learned it yet?
   
   

  
  Quote: 





srisaikat said:


> I know I may going to write most disputed and disturbing article ever in this thread, but it is all my true experience that is what I heard on my own. I even could not sleep peacefully for last several days for not telling the truth to somebody about my FUN version A. What is the more better place to express my concern than this forum. Please pardon me for my English and inexperience behavior. I also emailed my whole experience to Mr. Kingwa. Here is my fact........
> 
> I am shocked, I am stunned and I became speechless when first time did this test. I bought my FUN by reading an inspired thread or articles on head-fi forum. Please explain if someone can.
> 
> ...


----------



## middachten

Quote: 





srisaikat said:


> Please give me a reply explaining possible reason or if I did any thing wrong. Why should anyone buy any DAC especially like FUN?


 

 No one should buy any DAC if they do not think its worth the money!
  Some people are perfectly satisfied with the audio quality of their mobile phone when they play audio trough the build-in speaker.
  I'm not. So, I make a different choice.
   
  No doubt there will be a difference between your LG player and the FUN. First question is: "is your test suitable for you to hear this difference". Second question could be: "do I want to pay for this difference?".
   
  Issues with the first question could be:

 what is the quality of the amp/speaker or amp/headphone. Both the Grado and Etymotic would be perfectly able to show the difference. What type/brand of amplifier do you use? Do you hear any difference when you listen to the Grado or Etymotic on the headphone out of the FUN?
 do you have experience with comparing audio equipment? For example, what is the difference between the Grado and Etymotic? Like les_garten wrote, a discerning ear could use some training (just like wine and food). 
 fast switching between sources is not the best way to find differences. Differences in DACs are much more subtle than for example differences between speakers. Differences in speakers are often found in tonality/timbre. While those differences are also present between DACs, its also about detail, soundstage, imaging and transients. These differences need some time to recognize. Just like when tasting wines you need some time to smell and taste in order to discern between the different flavors. Its much better to listen to a part of a song, stop, switch and start the same part again.
   
  Have you done audio comparisons on your setup before? Listening to the difference in headphone output on your amp and the FUN will likely show a seriously audible difference.
   
  When it comes to the second question its all about budget and priorities. Thats a very personal matter. Even more so than taste IMHO!
   
  I wish you lots of FUN in exploring the audio world!


----------



## haloxt

I like to use movies to critique gear sound differences when I can't figure them out. Movies make it easier to focus your attention than most music. When comparing LG cd player and FUN, I would watch movies and listen for how coherent (easy to understand) and close to the visual counterpart dialogues sound. I think this kind of thing is where acss really shines, vs rca and xlr.


----------



## middachten

Interesting!
  I never used movies. That's definitely something I will give a try next time I'm evaluating gear. 
  Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## srisaikat

As previously stated I wrote the same to Mr. Kingwa. He replied today, "I think you can take the FUN to some hifiers near you local to try if they can not hear the different"
   
  My reply to Mr. Kingwa as well as my fellow and respected Head-fier is -  
   
  When I first time used Grado, Etymotic ER-4S and RE0, I felt the difference very well, when I first time used Little Dot MK-I with my Cowon then I able to guess why head-fier always recommended to use a decent headphone amplifier. Now you are advising me to approach some hifiers to hear the difference! May be you are right, but I have to live along with my own ear and my system.
   
  Yes, I have wish to upgrade my system as I am very keen to explore the audio world like others of this forum. But I have to get some sign of hope what I found when I first time used ER-4S my personal favorite among GRADO, UE10 and SHURE. The defined, refined, speedy details and transparency of ER-4S thrills me, delights so much I can not express in word. RE0 is close to ER-4S but not same, RE0 has smooth silky but details presentation. Many listener complained about bass response of ER-4S, but I know a silent, clean and hi powered headphone amp can bring out real depth bass (not the mid bass) and vocals along with the great details very well from this tiny bullet like phones . I am not here to review the headphones but telling about them to share and evaluate my experience and passion about head phones to others. My speakers may not be high branded but their output really close to my GRADO SR80, but forget them when I found no difference between the 3 outputs with ER-4S then I got really disappointed, I do not know what is gone wrong????????????????


----------



## Pacha

As far as I can tell I was shocked with the jump in SQ in all aspects when moving from my Audigy 2 ZS sound card to the FUN when using my DT 880 at this time.
   
  What kind of files do you play? Lossless or mp3 (which bitrate then?)


----------



## middachten

Well, is there a difference between the headphone output of your amp and the FUN?


----------



## TheUpbeat

I've just ordered a pair of audioengine A5's and was wishing to pair it up with a DAC for use with a PC/Xbox 360. I've been looking closely at the FUN as it matches my price range and seems to offer good bang for buck. I'm tossing up between the A & B version. I'm wondering though, I only intent on using Coax/Optical in so do I really need the DAC component and the headphone port? Are there better options if I don't need USB, in terms of price and performance?  
   
 It'd be cool to have the USB, for parties if I wanted to bring out the amp and the speakers and plug into a laptop...however this won't be the primary use. I do have a pair of seinheisser hd25's but I have an entry level tube amp that suits me OK at the moment (hence no major requirement for headphone port).
   
  I'm just keen to listen to music on it mainly, with a few games.


----------



## srisaikat

Please help me as I am eager to know if I have done something wrong or the LG DVD Player (which also has USB port to play files from USB storage device) do really have Bit stream output on digital coax as there is no difference heard when I am selecting or switching between PCM and Bit stream, the output is still same (quality and quantity). Please help me understanding this internal issue. If the digital output is PCM then, should the signal bypassed by FUN or any other external DAC? I want to know the behavior of FUN or any External DAC when it find signal in form of PCM and Bit stream. Please help! Can any one name some modest CD or DVD player from which I can really get Bit stream signal as digital output.


----------



## srisaikat

Quote: 





middachten said:


> Well, is there a difference between the headphone output of your amp and the FUN?


 

 I haven't test it yet, I will report it shortly.


----------



## haloxt

srisaikat, I think you may have some wrong expectations of what neutral dac and amps are supposed to do for the sound. Switching between neutral dac's and amp's won't make as obvious and immediate a difference as switching between different headphones, all of which have their own unique FR and other specs.
   
  What you should be listening for when comparing neutral dac's and amp's is for microdetail resolution, sound of soundstage echo, timbre, trailing notes, and how close reproduced sound fits your memory of real life sounds.


----------



## srisaikat

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> srisaikat, I think you may have some wrong expectations of what neutral dac and amps are supposed to do for the sound. Switching between neutral dac's and amp's won't make as obvious and immediate a difference as switching between different headphones, all of which have their own unique FR and other specs.
> 
> What you should be listening for when comparing neutral dac's and amp's is for microdetail resolution, sound of soundstage echo, timbre, trailing notes, and how close reproduced sound fits your memory of real life sounds.


 
  But my query is understanding the internal issues of external DAC. If the digital output is PCM then, should the signal bypassed by FUN or any other external DAC like fun? I want to know the behavior of an External DAC when it find signal in form of PCM and Bit stream.


----------



## les_garten

I would say, hook up the LG into the FUN and listen to it only for 2 weeks.
   
  Then change something.
   
  Evaluate the effects of the change.
   
  These are the first steps in learning to "hear"
   
  In the Ol' days, the HiFi shop loaned you a piece of geat to take home for a week or so.  The idea was you would like it immediately, or miss it when you gave it back.  They knew that if you just set down and listened in the store for a minute, you might not appreciate it.
   
  These shops don't exist much anymore unfortunately.
  
  Quote: 





srisaikat said:


> But my query is understanding the internal issues of external DAC. If the digital output is PCM then, should the signal bypassed by FUN or any other external DAC like fun? I want to know the behavior of an External DAC when it find signal in form of PCM and Bit stream.


----------



## srisaikat

Quote: 





pacha said:


> As far as I can tell I was shocked with the jump in SQ in all aspects when moving from my Audigy 2 ZS sound card to the FUN when using my DT 880 at this time.
> 
> What kind of files do you play? Lossless or mp3 (which bitrate then?)


 


  I play flac as well as mp3. But I tested it with Audio CD.


----------



## srisaikat

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> I would say, hook up the LG into the FUN and listen to it only for 2 weeks.
> 
> Then change something.
> 
> ...


 
  I can assure you I will follow your advise as there is no chance or possibility that I would throw my FUN to bin. I also think if a HiFi store would loan or rent their system to test then it would have been a great opportunity for us to feel the difference and make choices.


----------



## middachten

Quote: 





> These shops don't exist much anymore unfortunately.


 

 Thats because we can now order stuff directly from China for 1/3 of the price.....
   
  I used to work in such a shop during when I was a student. They still exist (http://www.versnelhifi.nl). This kind of service has a price. And not many people are prepared to pay for it. Thats giving companies like Versnel HiFi a hard time to survive. They invest all the time and effort, and in the end the customers buy at the cheapest place they can find on the internet.
  I'm not sure if this can be called progress
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  As useful as I find forums like Head-Fi (I would never have found the brand Audio-GD if it weren't for this forum), its never a replacement for my own critical listening session. Now I will just take the plunge and order something from (likely) Audio-GD. Firstly, because I trust that such a broadly shared opinion on their equipment must be based on some reality. Secondly, because Its quite easy to sell it again when it doesn't fit my taste. In the end I will still be of a lot cheaper than when I would have bought that Arcam, Wadia or Meridian DAC.


----------



## miyinan

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> srisaikat, I think you may have some wrong expectations of what neutral dac and amps are supposed to do for the sound. Switching between neutral dac's and amp's won't make as obvious and immediate a difference as switching between different headphones, all of which have their own unique FR and other specs.
> 
> What you should be listening for when comparing neutral dac's and amp's is for microdetail resolution, sound of soundstage echo, timbre, trailing notes, and how close reproduced sound fits your memory of real life sounds.


 

 x2


----------



## srisaikat

Quote: 





miyinan said:


> x2


 

 I did not get, What did you mean by x2?


----------



## les_garten

Agreed.
   
  But those shops don't really exist anymore.
   
  Here in the US, every town(> 20-30K Population) practically had a shop that carried decent stuff.  Quicksilver, VPI, Townsend, Thiel, KEF, you name it.  Or you might drive a little to see something different.  But now, these places in the US maybe can be counted on one or two hands.  They went away before the availability of good gear from China.  I would say the Internet did them in IMO.
  Quote: 





middachten said:


> Thats because we can now order stuff directly from China for 1/3 of the price.....
> 
> I used to work in such a shop during when I was a student. They still exist (http://www.versnelhifi.nl). This kind of service has a price. And not many people are prepared to pay for it. Thats giving companies like Versnel HiFi a hard time to survive. They invest all the time and effort, and in the end the customers buy at the cheapest place they can find on the internet.
> I'm not sure if this can be called progress
> ...


----------



## srisaikat

Quote: 





middachten said:


> Well, is there a difference between the headphone output of your amp and the FUN?


 

 Yes, I did the compare the headphone output of my amp and the FUN. The result is great in favor of Fun. Fun headphone output has clear vocals and much more natural flavor and more controls through overall audible frequency range. But, yes there is a but. Please read carefully, I did not only compared the headphone output of the FUN and my old amp; this time I took the analog output (RCA) of my DVD player to the line-in of the FUN and as well as took the coax output of the DVD to the coax input of the Fun (selecting bit stream in audio option), I think all of you should understand that my goal was to compare the analog output of my DVD that is the built-in or stock DAC inside DVD player(which I guess have very cheap one) with the DAC (WM8741 and well designed circuit) of the FUN. So now using headphone output (using GRADO and ER-4S) of FUN switching by the line-in button on the fron panel of the FUN I had both output (DVD player's internal DAC and Fun's DAC). Now what have I found? Absolutely big zero (0) difference among the outputs using same model headphone. (Of course there is audible difference between GRADO SR80 and ER-4S)  
   
  If you have read above setup carefully then you would find, one hand I was getting output through following pattern... 
   
  DVD's in-built DAC
  > Analog RCA output
  > Line-in of FUN
  > OPAMP EARTH, Applied ACSS, bla...bla...bla..
  > Headphone output
   
   
  On the other hand I was getting output through
   
  DVD's Bit stream signal (so bypassing the internal DAC)
  > Coax output
  > Coax input of FUN
  > Fun's DAC WM8741, OPAMP EARTH, Applied ACSS, bla.... bla... bla....
  > Headphone output
   
  But there is no difference that I can compare. Now please tell if I have done anything wrong. Now only one doubt or possibility in my mind that if my DVD player do really giving bit stream signal as its output? As far I know if the DVD give PCM signal as its output then there would be no difference in outputs because to get PCM it has already used it's internal DAC, and PCM signal may be bypassed by the consecutive circuits of FUN. So my doubt is the WM8741 has been kept unused somehow or just got no chance to show it's magic. If my doubt is true then its easily justifies the result of my previous test regarding three different outputs through integrated amp.
   
  I will be really grateful if anyone read my posting carefully and help me understand this issues giving comments.


----------



## haloxt

srisaikat, if you do coax spdif into the FUN, the fun will use its dac to convert, and you are bypassing your LG player's dac.


----------



## srisaikat

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> srisaikat, if you do coax spdif into the FUN, the fun will use its dac to convert, and you are bypassing your LG player's dac.


 


  Ok, but what about the analog output of LG DVD? Whether I am using the coax of LG or not the RCA output of LG getting the analog signal from where? Isn't it coming straight from it's own inside DAC, so my question is how the analog output of a cheap DAC (assuming for the price) could be same like superior DAC of FUN with a renowned headphone through which one is capable to discover many differences. I can hear difference among various headphones but I can't differ the output of LG (using it's RCA analog output) and Fun (Using it's Coax).


----------



## les_garten

I would say listen and in afew weeks and circle back around.  No more point really till you do that.  Just listen and more importantly Enjoy, then come back and report.
   
  If then you can't hear a difference, some folks would say that you have been blessed my son...
  
  Quote: 





srisaikat said:


> Ok, but what about the analog output of LG DVD? Whether I am using the coax of LG or not the RCA output of LG getting the analog signal from where? Isn't it coming straight from it's own inside DAC, so my question is how the analog output of a cheap DAC (assuming for the price) could be same like superior DAC of FUN with a renowned headphone through which one is capable to discover many differences. I can hear difference among various headphones but I can't differ the output of LG (using it's RCA analog output) and Fun (Using it's Coax).


----------



## Bblitz

I noticed a huge difference both my KRK Rokits through the pre amp out and with my Grado's coming from the uDac. No way I could ever go back


----------



## Currawong

It could be a tonal difference you're hearing, such as one being brighter than the other. Brightness can give a false impression of greater detail, for example. My suggestions are: Give the Fun a couple of weeks of heavy use if you haven't already, as the sound can be harsh initially. The heat of running it will result in an audible difference in the sound after a while.  After that, compare how things such as vocals, pianos and violins sound to see which is more natural.  Also try recordings where you can hear, say, background sounds in the studio when they were recorded and see which reproduces more of these sounds or in more detail.  However, if your headphones or other hi-fi gear isn't that high-end, then you might not notice that much difference, if any at all.  Gear in this kind price range is not the type I'd expect miracles from, unless you're upgrading from, say, a computer's onboard sound.


----------



## srisaikat

Not with computer, but have anybody tried FUN with CD or DVD Player through coax like me? Please, please reply if anyone.


----------



## les_garten

I get the distinct impression that you are not listening...
  
  Quote: 





srisaikat said:


> Not with computer, but have anybody tried FUN with CD or DVD Player through coax like me? Please, please reply if anyone.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





srisaikat said:


> Not with computer, but have anybody tried FUN with CD or DVD Player through coax like me? Please, please reply if anyone.


 

 Yes. Read what I wrote a few more times.


----------



## srisaikat

Thats a big wrong impression you ever guessed, I am spending most of my times with FUN hampering even regular work and this become a big headache for my family. With this kind of statement you are not helping at all to solve my issues.   
  
  Quote: 





les_garten said:


> I get the distinct impression that you are not listening...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## srisaikat

Would you please provide the links about your such postings?
  
  Quote: 





currawong said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## srisaikat

Quote: 





currawong said:


> If one is using the DIR9000, which only accepts up to 96k input, I'd definitely go with the 4x oversampling. That might explain why the Compass tended to sound a bit harsh to some people.
> 
> I plugged my HD-800s in last night and this morning, and hooked up my Onkyo DV-SP502 SACD 3 way into the Fun to compare things. Firstly via the line in (it uses a BB PC1792 DAC with LM4560 OPAMPs), via optical via a Synergistic Research cable a friend gave me and via coax. I felt there wasn't any significant difference between my Onkyo's line out and the Fun's DAC (using the OPA Earth) using the built-in headphone amp in A (ACSS) modem, though the FUN's DAC had a slight edge over the Onkyo. It's also that the Onkyo is a surprisingly decent-sounding player, being a re-badged Pioneer DV-588a, which had a good reputation as a budget SACD player.
> 
> Interestingly, the first time I tried HD-800s with the FUN, I felt it was a poor match, with the music sounding congested. Of course I'm used to a much higher-end rig, so this wasn't such a surprise. However, after another few days left switched on, the Fun seems to have opened up and some of the harshness has gone, making it much more listen-able than at the start.


 
   
  At last I found a posting which is close to my experience. Of course Onkyo is in different league compared to LG. But within last 5/6 years (this quoted model of Onkyo is at least 5/6 years old)  price, performance and design of DAC ( IC-Chip ) improved drastically in favor of consumer, so one of my guess (very hard to believe to me also) is LG somehow took this opportunity and improved design and performance of their DVD players. 
   
  My humble and sincere request anybody to compare the output of FUN with a cheap type DVD player (Like LG, SAMSUNG, Philips or any multinational brand which have mass production) model which came in market within last 1 year through SPDIF or through Line out and through your quality Headphones or Speakers system. If you do not have then borrow them, in 50/ 60 $ price range this is easy to get anyhow.


----------



## haloxt

I have tried a few $30-60 cd players vs the sparrow. Some cd players can be quite decent, some sound really really really bad. The sparrow was better than all of the cd players I tried.


----------



## miyinan

Quote: 





srisaikat said:


> Thats a big wrong impression you ever guessed, I am spending most of my times with FUN hampering even regular work and this become a big headache for my family. With this kind of statement you are not helping at all to solve my issues.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
   
  This reminds me another member who claimed hearing no difference between HD580 unamped and HD580 amped by Sparrow.
   
  Of course, there could be many reasons for that. But hey, aside from anything else, it is common for someone to hear no difference between gears while others hear noticeable difference. And it is not a bad thing, really.
   
  If you hear no difference, just selling it and be happy with whatever gears you have and feel comfortable with. After all, this is just a hobby and shouldn't create any problems to your family whatsoever.
   
  Just my 2cents.
   
   
  Lee


----------



## Pacha

I agree with the opinion above.


----------



## srisaikat

If you have read my previous consecutive posts you will find I can differ between amped and unamped Headphone very well. As far my family concern they worry whenever they find I am engaged with my hobby ignoring daily duties, it is true more or less for others also, but I know one have to live balancing this issues out. My main problem is there is no one live near me with this kind of hobby who can lend his gears or I can take my gears to fit in another setup for trial. Now I am trying to find and ACD player to test and compare the FUN. Whatever it is thanks for your concern. 
  Quote: 





miyinan said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Currawong

Glad you could find my old post. I find discerning the difference between gear very dependent on the music as well. I have quite a bit of music I like with which there isn't much difference when played through different gear (if each component has the same overall tone). It tends to be music that is fast and complex or is very well-recorded which has a lot of low-level detail that makes it easiest to tell the difference. As well, instruments such as violins and pianos that sound harsh and unnatural when reproduced poorly from digital recordings. 

I still reckon the Fun is a good entry-level piece of kit. I wish I'd had it and the Parasound Zamp as I do now back when I was in university. Back then though there was essentially no digital music.


----------



## srisaikat

There is something I am feeling reading various posts and that is about fellow respected co-members of this community, some of them (not all) are more courageous to discover weakness of my ears and gears (may be for my own good), almost ignoring others possibilities, like…
   

 DVD Player may be really good (least possibility I also believe).
 Most strong guess I think, the DAC inside the FUN somehow bypassing the coax signal, not doing its job. I do not know, what form of digital signal a DAC can process (may be raw bit stream), how many steps it takes to process. and what it bypass (may be pcm) and whats the logic working behind it. May be the DVD is supplying partially preprocessed data to FUN doing what the DAC inside FUN was more capable than that of DVD, just the DAC inside FUN is not somehow getting its chance to use its full capabilities. I am eager to study about this digital signal and behavior of DAC.
 May be some others unknown factors are going wrong.
   
  I joined this community to share my views, experiences and most importantly to gather knowledge and advice from respected senior members. I am grateful that you replied to my posts. Thanks everybody.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


			
				srisaikat said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif





> Most strong guess I think, the DAC inside the FUN somehow bypassing the coax signal, not doing its job. I do not know, what form of digital signal it can process (may be raw bit stream) and what it bypass (may be pcm) and whats the logic working behind it.


   
  If you give it a Digital signal and you listen to an analog signal, there must be a conversion in the somewhere, ie a DAC.


----------



## srisaikat

Reading various posts and articles from various websites I think I got the root cause of my problem. If any one need references or sources I can provide them. The conclusion of all that is........
   

 If anyone want uncompressed digital audio output (for 2-channel) then use any normal CD player in normal price range (not DVD player) with Digital output option and pair it with external superior DAC (may be like FUN or more costly one)
 DVD players (its DAC) down mix the RAW DATA of Source to a compressed 2 channel PCM (which is still a digital signal) and send it over coax, then the receiver (like Fun) coverts the PCM signal into Analog. So Fun is just processing that PCM to analog without ever knowing it started out as a high res format, in my case Fun (it's DAC) is not getting the uncompressed RAW DATA and failed to get the chance and show its superior capabilities to do the job and so the output audio I am getting from FUN is not greater than that of LG DVD. Its just getting a preprocessed compressed DATA from the DAC of LG DVD player.
 Using the FUN is more suitable with personal computer which can provide uncompressed RAW DATA.
 To get superior audio output (avoiding computer and external DAC) one should use directly a player (CD/DVD/Blue Ray) with hi-end DAC housed inside or the option 1 above.
   
  So right now I have two options to utilize the FUN; either option in number one or option in number three.


----------



## Currawong

srisaikat: Good job figuring it out. I admit that at least in my case, I don't ever consider more than regular 2-channel audio (despite owning an SACD player) so I probably wasn't paying as much attention to your situation as I should have when I replied.


----------



## les_garten

Some us think there is no other source except Computers...
   
  The idea of handling a disc is so Gauche...


----------



## middachten

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *srisaikat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> To get superior audio output (avoiding computer and external DAC) one should use directly a player (CD/DVD/Blue Ray) with hi-end DAC housed inside or the option 1 above.
> 
> So right now I have two options to utilize the FUN; either option in number one or option in number three.


 
   
  Glad you found the source of your problem.
  Most DVD players have an option to output uncompressed (PCM) audio on their SPDIF output. That might be a 5th option!


----------



## srisaikat

Quote: 





middachten said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  From my study and own experience (read my last few posts) I found that's not true if you play a normal Audio CD with a DVD Player, that's the bitter truth I learnt within last few days; to utilize full potential of audio CD one have to use a dedicated CD Player or a computer via high end Sound Card or External DAC


----------



## srisaikat

Same test done, now with Philips DVD player, but no change in result. I mean I can differ the sound signature between LG and Philips very well, but when testing sound between line out of Philips through FUN or integrated amp (like I did with LG) and Coax out of Philips through Fun using either headphone paired with Fun or speaker paired with integrated amp I failed to hear any difference. It is the proof in favor of my last statement that DVD players generally not let out the raw bit stream signal through digital output when playing an audio CD, the signal they are passing through already processed to compressed digital format so the external DAC of FUN is kept unused from its right capabilities. With in a week I am going to get a Pioneer DVD player, so I will test it and let you all know the result.


----------



## Fr3aKsTyLeR

Someone got experience with Denon AH-D2000 + FUN combo? Because got my Denons around week ago and dunno witch of the OPAs should i buy... I've been thinking to buy the OPA-Earth and OPA-Moon(some guys told me that they sound good with Beyerdynamic DT770) but I'm not sure is it nessessary to buy both. I mainly listen heavy metal, progressive rock, old school rock, some electric(like Prodigy) and some easier pop-rock. So if someone could give me a hand it would help me with my investation.


----------



## olor1n

Get both. Earth and Moon are so distinct from each other that it's easily worth that little bit extra for the versatility.


----------



## N0sferatu

Got my Audio GD Fun (Version A with DIR9001, PCM2701 USB DAC, AD1852).  Fun little box I'm just letting it burn in now.  I'm running it with a pair of Sennheiser HD595 and Grado SR80.  So far I like it.  Sounds similar to my Onkyo's headphone out and a tad better than my analog output for my soundcard on my PC (Auzentech X-Meridian w/LM4562 OPAMP). 
   
  Right now I have Auzentech X-Meridian Coax --> Audio GD Fun --> Sennheiser HD 595.  I'm thinking a LA2000 "Lite" is in my future to match this DAC/AMP and I'll be set.


----------



## olor1n

I got my new HD650 yesterday and I'm really enjoying the pairing with the Fun. My main concern was that the Fun would not have enough power to adequately drive the HD650, but I'm glad to find that's not the case. The Fun has more than enough in reserve to handle wonderful dynamics with ease, all the while presenting that clean, neutral and well defined signature Audio-GDholics™ know so well. It just effortlessly allows the music to shine through. There's a synergy here that is really engaging to me. Bliss.


----------



## Ezekiel33

Quote: 





fr3akstyler said:


> Someone got experience with Denon AH-D2000 + FUN combo? Because got my Denons around week ago and dunno witch of the OPAs should i buy... I've been thinking to buy the OPA-Earth and OPA-Moon(some guys told me that they sound good with Beyerdynamic DT770) but I'm not sure is it nessessary to buy both. I mainly listen heavy metal, progressive rock, old school rock, some electric(like Prodigy) and some easier pop-rock. So if someone could give me a hand it would help me with my investation.


 
   
  I've been using the Fun with Denon AH-D2000 for about 1 year now.. the sound is effectively very fun, punchy bass, good for all kind of music and suits perfectly my tastes!! D2000 has some recessed mids however.. looking for an upgrade that keeps the same bass.. still didnt find :|  but it's a go you should give it a try!


----------



## N0sferatu

I'm borrowing a friend's D7000s and they really shine on the Audio-GD FUN.  Let me tell you the higher ended cans certainly don't have recessed mids to my ears.  It makes my Grados and Sennheisers sound terrible.  Now I gotta buy these lol.
  
  Quote: 





ezekiel33 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bhaskarjyotik

Does anyone know if the FUN is going to be updated soon? It is out of stock now and will be available late Feb.
  If Kingwa is updating the product then I would rather wait before ordering.


----------



## bhaskarjyotik

I am having trouble choosing between the DIR 9001 and WM8805.
  Can someone help me. My primary headphones are HD650s.
  Thanks.


----------



## N0sferatu

I've played with them on a friend's HD650.  Loved it on those, HD595, and my Denon's.
   
  Got the "pacific valve" version here and they have it in stock and only USA supplier that brings them with a warranty FYI. 
   
  That model comes with AD1852, DIR9001, FET Output buffer and is the Version A.  
   
  http://www.pacificvalve.us/AudiogdFUN.html


----------



## bhaskarjyotik

Thanks. But can anybody tell me the difference between the DIR9001 and the WM8805 modules?
  Also which output buffer is a better option between FET and Diamond?
  Will be glad if someone can help.


----------



## N0sferatu

Quote: 





bhaskarjyotik said:


> Thanks. But can anybody tell me the difference between the DIR9001 and the WM8805 modules?
> Also which output buffer is a better option between FET and Diamond?
> Will be glad if someone can help.


 


  no problem.  I"d read the 1st post of this thread the guy who reviews it goes into great detail.  If you do opt for the model I linked ya to I can assure you ya won't be disappointed!


----------



## olor1n

If going with B version I'd recommend you go with DIR9001, TE7022, diamond (default) and the "better" WM8741 dac module. Grab Earth and Moon while you're at it.


----------



## sphinxvc

Has AGD reduced the number of tweaks available for the FUN?  
   
  Bought my FUN two weeks ago:
   

 I was able to pick the D/A module (no brainer with the 8741)
 DIR module (Okay, that's a preference thing.)
 USB module (Inferior vs. Superior - how fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
 Admitted, the op-amp modules are cool.  I now have the Earth / Moon modules and soon will have the Sun module.
   
  The OP's post included the following which aren't options anymore (at least according to AGD's site)
   

 4 different Gain modules: ACSS, Neutral, Musical, Dynamic
 Buffer Modules: Diamond & FET
   
  So are the ACSS module & FET buffer the default modules now?  It would seem so according to FUN's product page.
   
  Has anyone tried the op-amp the OP used?  Where can I get this thing?  The "LM49720HA TO-99" opamp.


----------



## sphinxvc

Just thought it would helpful to share my experience ordering the FUN with AGD.
   
  Ordered the B version and was sent a confirmation of the components in my unit.
  At the end of my first week I was advised by Olor1n to change the output on my Macbook to 24-bit/96 khz to take advantage of my TE7022 usb module.  I tried.
  It turns out AGD forgot to install the TE7022 and I'm limited to 16-bit/48 khz usb input.
  I wrote AGD and asked them to ship the TE7022 module to me.  
  They replied that they forgot to install it and coincidentally also forgot to charge me for it, they said they would ship free if I paid $26 for the TE7022.  I opted to use the free shipping on the sun op-amp instead since I will soon be using optical anyway.
   
  Bhaskarjyotik - I would second the config. olor1n recommended except I would advise that you forego the TE7022 if you have optical or coax output (both are 24-bit / 96 khz) from your source/computer.
   
  You may want to think long and hard about the NFB-12 vs. FUN if you don't intend to play around with the FUN's components.  An advantage of the FUN is the Earth opamp which is excellent, I haven't heard the stock one as I took it out as soon as I got the unit.  However you may want to look into the op-amp I speak of in the above post that the OP of this thread used successfully with the FUN.  If the NFB-12's op-amp is socketed like the FUN's it may be worth it to shoot for the dual 8741s the NFB-12 has.
   
  If the NFB-12 sounds as good as the FUN with the Earth opamp then the NFB-12 is money spent well, _very very_ well.
   
  Edit: though this post sounds quite negative I quite like the FUN and am happy with the SQ I'm getting from it for the price I paid.


----------



## bhaskarjyotik

I would probably purchase it from Kingwa directly. Thanks.
  Quote: 





n0sferatu said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bhaskarjyotik

Thanks.
   
  I have three questions for you.
  1. How do you change the output of you MBP from 16/48 to 24/96? I plan to use the USB out of my MBP.
  2. I do not have any optical or coaxial out. I do not think a can get them on a MBP. How do you plan to use the optical out?
  3. Do you know the difference between the receivers DIR9001 and WM8805? It seems like WM8805 is the default in the A-version.
   
  I mostly plan to use OPA EARTH with FUN. Do you think it will be a better choice than NFB-12.
  I am not sure if I will be using the coaxial or optical.
   
  Thanks again. I hope you are enjoying your new HD650s.
   
  Update: Forget the first question. I just realized that I can change the outputs using the Audio MIDI setup utility.
  Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Just thought it would helpful to share my experience ordering the FUN with AGD.
> 
> Ordered the B version and was sent a confirmation of the components in my unit.
> At the end of my first week I was advised by Olor1n to change the output on my Macbook to 24-bit/96 khz to take advantage of my TE7022 usb module.  I tried.
> ...


----------



## sphinxvc

1. Applications > Utilities > Audio MIDI > It's quite simple from there, you just pick 96 khz / 24-bit.
  2. My 2006 "First Gen" Macbook has optical out built into it's headphone jack, I'm certain you have it.  You will need a toslink-to-mini adapter.
  3. As far as I know the DIR9001 has lower jitter than the WM8805.  I believe WM8805 is default on both versions.  How much this affects the sound signature, I would go with Kingwa's words, I prefer the DIR9001 with my HD650s:
   
  DIR9001
  "[size=small]Its sound characteristic is neutral ."[/size]
  WM8805
  "[size=small]Its sound characteristic is neutral and detail but slight smooth."[/size]
   
  Lovin' the 650s, still indebted to you for sharing the Sonic Sense deal with me.
   
  Quote: 





bhaskarjyotik said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I have three questions for you.
> 1. How do you change the output of you MBP from 16/48 to 24/96? I plan to use the USB out of my MBP.
> ...


----------



## bhaskarjyotik

AHHHH i did not realize that MBP has optical out in the headphone out. 
  Thanks. I will go with the 9001 as well.
  I think Diamond buffer is the default now. No FET option available. 
  
  Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> 1. Applications > Utilities > Audio MIDI > It's quite simple from there, you just pick 96 khz / 24-bit.
> 2. My 2006 "First Gen" Macbook has optical out built into it's headphone jack, I'm certain you have it.  You will need a toslink-to-mini adapter.
> 3. As far as I know the DIR9001 has lower jitter than the WM8805.  I believe WM8805 is default on both versions.  How much this affects the sound signature, I would go with Kingwa's words, I prefer the DIR9001 with my HD650s:
> 
> ...


----------



## bhaskarjyotik

Thanks a lot. What changes to you suggest if I buy the A version? I will place the order in Feb since it is not available right now. 
  
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> If going with B version I'd recommend you go with DIR9001, TE7022, diamond (default) and the "better" WM8741 dac module. Grab Earth and Moon while you're at it.


----------



## olor1n

@ sphiinxvc - My understanding is that the NFB12 does not allow you to change the opamp at the DAC's output stage (not sure if it even has one). This to me is the NFB12's downfall compared to the Fun. Anyone who's ever changed from the default opamp on the Fun will testify to the drastic change this can result in. It's especially vital for a revealing headphone like the HD650, as it allows you to tweak the sound to your preference.
   
  And yes, the choices have decreased over time but it's been for the better. If you read through the thread you'll see ACSS was not available for the B version initially. Not sure when this changed but when I ordered in mid September it was default in the B version. And also going by some impressions it seems the diamond buffer (again the default) is the best of the lot (vs FET and whatever other option was available). From what I can gather the diamond buffers are employed in low gain, while ACSS is (somewhat) utilised in high gain. I'm not entirely sure on this, but there should be a discussion of that in this thread.
   
  @ bhaskarjyotik - I'm sure many will agree that the default A version is the "best" configuration. You can pimp out the B version with the same modules so the only difference between the two in the end would be the brand of components used and the Neutrik locking plug (I now wish I'd requested this plug for my pimped out B version).


----------



## gunkie2k

I also was debating between buying the B version and upgrading a few things, until I just figured I might as well get an A instead.  I had them upgrade the SPDIF to the Wolfson WM8805, and I installed an OPA-Earth module when it arrived.  I wish I would have also ordered at least the Moon module, too, as it's an easy DIY. 
   
  I've run mine about 200 hours since getting it two weeks ago, mostly SACD and DVD-Audio sources, into HD-650's.
    
   
  Quote:


bhaskarjyotik said:


> Thanks a lot. What changes to you suggest if I buy the A version? I will place the order in Feb since it is not available right now.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





gunkie2k said:


> I also was debating between buying the B version and upgrading a few things, until I just figured I might as well get an A instead.  I had them upgrade the SPDIF to the Wolfson WM8805, and I installed an OPA-Earth module when it arrived.  I wish I would have also ordered at least the Moon module, too, as it's an easy DIY.
> 
> I've run mine about 200 hours since getting it two weeks ago, mostly SACD and DVD-Audio sources, into HD-650's.
> 
> ...


 


  All a matter of preference of course, but I must say a properly burned in Moon makes some sweet music with the HD650. The ability to install these discrete opamps is without doubt the Fun's best feature imo.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


> All a matter of preference of course, but I must say a properly burned in Moon makes some sweet music with the HD650. The ability to install these discrete opamps is without doubt the Fun's best feature imo.


 

 Agreed, it's one of the FUN's best features and that's what makes it such a good entry level choice - you can tweak the sound to your liking and then (with a better idea of what you are after) pursue better gear.


----------



## N0sferatu

one thing to keep in mind which I was totally surprised about when I got the unit is how BIG in size the Audio-GD FUN is.  Just something to keep in mind.  Most pictures made me think it was smaller than what it really is.  Here's how big it is compared to a 15" laptop and some headphones.  I had to do some desk organization to get it to fit on my desk (no this isn't my desk it's at a head-fi meet lol)


----------



## bhaskarjyotik

Hi FUN users,
   
  I have decided to place an order for the A-version.
  The only thing I could not decide on is whether to opt for the DIR9001 or the WM8805.
  I will pair it with the Senn HD650 using macbook pro Optical out.
  I was wondering if anyone can help me choose one between them. 
   
  Kingwa has mentioned that .....
  DIR9001's characteristics is neutral.
  WM8805's characteristics is neutral and detail but slight smooth.
   
  One thing I do not understand is that how can WM8805 be (more) detailed when it is smooth?
  Does not smooth mean loss of detail, or am I missing something?
  Did Kingwa try to mean something else?
   
  Since HD650 is already not one of the headphones with most detailing sound characteristics I do not want the amp to further smoothen the sound.
  In that case shall I prefer the DIR9001? It does have the lowest jitter.
   
  Does anyone know if the module is user replaceable (say from DIR9001 to WM8805 later)?
   
  Thanks for your help.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote: 





bhaskarjyotik said:


> Hi FUN users,
> 
> I have decided to place an order for the A-version.
> The only thing I could not decide on is whether to opt for the DIR9001 or the WM8805.
> ...


 

 ^ I don't know about that...
   
  =/


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





bhaskarjyotik said:


> Hi FUN users,
> 
> I have decided to place an order for the A-version.
> The only thing I could not decide on is whether to opt for the DIR9001 or the WM8805.
> ...


 


  YES.
   
  When all else fails, read the website for the product you are buying.


----------



## haloxt

Smooth does not automatically mean undetailed, it just means it has a smooth sound signature. And neutral does not automatically mean that it is very detailed, neutral means it doesn't add coloration to the sound. I have low-fi gear I consider very neutral sounding, but they aren't all that detailed.
   
  Kingwa said when you use wm8741 and wm8805, the final sound will be smooth, as both are "a little smooth" and when combined it leans even further to the smooth side. If you like that, go for wm8805. If you want a final sound that is just "a little smooth", go wm8741 and dir9001, because dir9001 is supposed to be neutral sounding while wm8741 is a little smooth.


----------



## Zikt

I'm using FUN(EARTH)>K702 combo. I'm quite satisfied with these but the sound is kind of dull
  What is the right OPA if I want more bass and warmness for FUN
  Thanks in advance


----------



## haloxt

When you say dull, do you mean lacks dynamics?
   
  Moon has more warmth and bass but less dynamics, and sun has more brightness and dynamics but less bass.


----------



## Zikt

@haloxt  Thanks
  Actually there's no complain about bass quality and quantity, but rather these combo lack warmth, glossiness or musicality in low-mid frequency.
   
  By the way, I'm confused by your statement "_Moon has more warmth and bass but less dynamics_"
  I've seen "warmth and bass" and "dynamics" as almost same thing but may be I'm wrong
  You mean  "sound stage" when you say " dynamics"?


----------



## haloxt

By dynamics I mean transient speed, attack, and for instruments to sound like they are at distinct and different speeds and different decay.
   
  If you are interested in warmth, the moon hdam may be what you need, but I would warn you that it is rather rolled off in the highs and a little less detailed than the earth hdam.


----------



## olor1n

haloxt is right, it sounds like a job for the Moon hdam. Make sure you give it enough time to burn in though, it will sound fuller and less congested.


----------



## Zikt

ok then the moon is the way I go. I'll take the plunge
Thanks for your input


----------



## N0sferatu

Everyone talks of the Earth and Moon....am I the only one using the SUN opamp lol ???  I think it sounds fantastic.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





zikt said:


> I'm using FUN(EARTH)>K702 combo. I'm quite satisfied with these but the sound is kind of dull
> What is the right OPA if I want more bass and warmness for FUN
> Thanks in advance


 

 Different headphones.


----------



## 65dos

who is better amp, nfb-12 or fun?


----------



## Zikt

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Of course I thought of buying another headphones at first.
  But after trying many $200-500 headphones with high reputation here, I found myself liking these headphones more and more in spite of the dullness and analytical sound K702 itself has.
  So I just wanted a little bit different sound with least investment


----------



## Currawong

Fair enough then.  I have a spare Moon HDAM if you'd like me to drop one in the mail, since you're in Tokyo.  PM me and let me know.


----------



## Fr3aKsTyLeR

So I got my FUN today. But I already faced one problem... I ordered OPA-Earth and Moon and I'm REALLY NOT a DIY guy, so I dunno how to install the Earth... -.-"
  I know the place where to put it but there seems to be some kinda OPA(very little though) already mounted and i can't get it off. And if u could answer in english, not in some HiFi language, i would be happy.


----------



## sphinxvc

That's the stock opa and yes it is a bit difficult to get off, you just need to get under it with something and pry it off.  
  Orient the Earth/Moon/Sun the correct way.  (The ground wire should be coming out of the opa facing the front of the Fun.)
  Insert the Earth/Moon/Sun.
  Unscrew the ground / place the Earth/Moon/Sun's ground connection there and screw it down.  (It's just there to secure the wire, you don't have to go crazy getting it tight.)
   
  Here's a picture of mine with the ground wire's connection visible.  Again, do make sure you get the orientation of the Earth/Moon/Sun correct.  
   

   
   
   Edit: Here's another guide: http://ref.ampcity.co.uk/opa-installation-guide.pdf


----------



## Fr3aKsTyLeR

Thanks, that helped me alot! But where was that screw for the earth-wire when u got ur own? Cause it's not on the place it should be... Or did it come somewhere with those OPAs?


----------



## sphinxvc

Mine was already there in the Fun. (Not with opas)  Just had to remove it, place the ground wire & then screw it back on.


----------



## Fr3aKsTyLeR

Ok. Well seems i'll gotta find one by myself.


----------



## RonO

For what it's worth - the case screws that hold on the cover fit that ground screw if you need one in a pinch.
   
  Ron


----------



## sphinxvc

I've had my case screws off since day one.  Good advice.


----------



## Fr3aKsTyLeR

Ok. Thx. I was just yesterday wondering why does there have to be million screws to hold one case...


----------



## Zikt

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Fair enough then.  I have a spare Moon HDAM if you'd like me to drop one in the mail, since you're in Tokyo.  PM me and let me know.


 
  that's very nice of you Currawong
  But I've already ordered from GD !


----------



## Fr3aKsTyLeR

Well now it's installed. I loved FUN already so mutch when i got it and now even more. <3


----------



## olor1n

^ You're in for a treat. The hdams sound better after a few hundred hours burn in.


----------



## RonO

I recently replaced the USB module in my Fun, the original 48/16 module quit working.  The replacement is the TE7022 based module. I mostly used ASIO with my Windows XP laptop, now I'm using that same laptop but running Win 7 32 bit, with Foobar and the WASAPI output component installed.  Since the new USB supports up to 96/24, is that what you all use in the settings in control panel? :
   
   
   
  In foobar itself I'm using:

   
  My question is if these settings mean it will pass bit perfect up to 96/24, or is it going to somehow upconvert my 44/16 files?  Would I be better off setting these to 44/16 in control panel, and 16 bit in foobar?  My library of music is 99.999% 44/16 files.
   
  Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
   
  RonO


----------



## sphinxvc

Posted in the HD650 appreciation forum but it may be more helpful here:
   
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *olor1n*
> 
> 
> 
> @ sphinxvc - Any impressions of the Sun hdam and that other dual opa you were experimenting with? I'm getting drawn closer to the NFB10WM despite the Fun's great synergy with the HD650. I've got Earth installed at the moment and I'm being reminded of how impressively transparent the Fun sounds in this configuration. It's mind boggling to think it could get better with a balanced setup.





 

I haven't received the ADA4627 in the mail yet but I will post initial impressions once I do.

 

Here are my initial impressions of the Sun w/HD650:  Has a more defined soundstage than the Earth & Moon.  Fills that soundstage completely (fuller), no part of it is wasted.  Every microdetail in the backgrounds of songs is brought forward.  Yes, the Earth is known as the most detailed opa but it is still natural in it's presentation: microdetails _meant_ to be in the background _stay _in the background.  With the Sun all these microdetails are brought to the front, and I suspect this is why it's called dynamic.  Lows have impact until the microdetails start kicking in at which point they have no more impact than midrange/high microdetails.  The vocals, unless isolated, take a backseat.  The Moon is still king of vocals.  Overall it isn't the most realistic of the opas but a good one to have around.  It's musical & it slightly Grado-fies the HD650s.  And ambient music sounds better.

 

Edit 5 hours later:  This kind of freaky...I was listening to some ambient music I know pretty well (Machinarium OST) and I started hearing a crackling sound coming from somewhere behind my left shoulder.  I took off the phones & looked around: silence.  Microphonics?  Something wrong with my driver?  I replay the track and at the same time there it is again; just a micro-detail I'd never heard before using an area of the soundstage I'd never heard anything in before.  NFB10 beckons.


----------



## runningman1960

Hi All,
     I've been doing alot of reading about different set-ups, and I understand most things like ss amps vs tube amps, recabled headphones, and the purposes for these things. Can someone please explain the purpose of a "pre" amp and what difference does it make in a system,(to boost power or enhance sound, or both and how)


----------



## bobxxxbob

Quote: 





runningman1960 said:


> Hi All,
> I've been doing alot of reading about different set-ups, and I understand most things like ss amps vs tube amps, recabled headphones, and the purposes for these things. Can someone please explain the purpose of a "pre" amp and what difference does it make in a system,(to boost power or enhance sound, or both and how)


 


  Preamp is only used with active speakers and power amps for speakers. If you only intend to listen with headphones you won't be needing a headamp with preamp.


----------



## Currawong

Audio signals are amplified multiple times before they reach your ears.  While a speaker (power) amp is designed to send out an electrical signal suitable to control speakers, it requires an equally well-controlled signal on its input end. That's what a pre-amp sends out. It so happens that the output of a pre-amp is about the same as that which is needed to drive headphones. However, the latest orthodynamic headphones seem to be able to handle the kind of power (higher current) a small speaker power amp outputs.


----------



## runningman1960

Thanks for the reply, I think we're always wondering if we're missing something. I'm glad I don't have to spend more money anytime soon.


----------



## matchuk28

hi guys,
   
  i recently got a pair of hd650 and are loving them so much i decided to redo my rig. I am selling my xonar essence stx and a900's to fund this audio gd fun. I plan to use the fun as an preamp for my nad amp and wharfedale speakers as well as for my hd650 on my computer. However i will also like to unplug it and put it in my room when i feel tired and want to listen to my hd 650 on my bed (one of the main reasons i want an usb amp). I know this has been debated many times but is the A version really worth the extra 100 usd? I will definately get the wolfston dac and a moon/earth op amp. However is it worth it to upgrade goldplated sockets and the headphone jack upgrade? Also can someone explain the usb 24/48 bit for me.
   
  My laptop is my room is a dodgly asus eeepc which i will run the fun with however my pc in my lounge room is pretty competant.
   
  Can i ask olir1n how much was shipping for you in aus, how long did it take to get delivered and was the packaging good (any dmg with the box). I recently had bad experiences with international shipping.
   
  Also are the op amps hard to change, i am extremely bad at installing little electronics ...
   
  Thanks
   
  Matt


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





matchuk28 said:


> hi guys,
> 
> i recently got a pair of hd650 and are loving them so much i decided to redo my rig. I am selling my xonar essence stx and a900's to fund this audio gd fun. I plan to use the fun as an preamp for my nad amp and wharfedale speakers as well as for my hd650 on my computer. However i will also like to unplug it and put it in my room when i feel tired and want to listen to my hd 650 on my bed (one of the main reasons i want an usb amp). I know this has been debated many times but is the A version really worth the extra 100 usd? I will definately get the wolfston dac and a moon/earth op amp. However is it worth it to upgrade goldplated sockets and the headphone jack upgrade? Also can someone explain the usb 24/48 bit for me.
> 
> ...


 

 Shipping was $46 I believe to AUS.


----------



## RonO

Quote: 





matchuk28 said:


> hi guys,
> 
> i recently got a pair of hd650 and are loving them so much i decided to redo my rig. I am selling my xonar essence stx and a900's to fund this audio gd fun. I plan to use the fun as an preamp for my nad amp and wharfedale speakers as well as for my hd650 on my computer. However i will also like to unplug it and put it in my room when i feel tired and want to listen to my hd 650 on my bed (one of the main reasons i want an usb amp). I know this has been debated many times but is the A version really worth the extra 100 usd? I will definately get the wolfston dac and a moon/earth op amp. However is it worth it to upgrade goldplated sockets and the headphone jack upgrade? Also can someone explain the usb 24/48 bit for me.
> 
> ...


 

 Matt - 
   
  I too am an HD-650 listener with the Fun.  The B version USB is limited to 48/16 files, so if you had any higher bit rate files, say 44.1/24, or 96/24 they would have to be resampled to play correctly assuming you're trying to get bit perfect output with WASAPI or ASIO. I've had my Fun since April 2010, there was no A/B version at that time as I recall.   You'd want to upgrade to the 96/24 USB interface if you plan to play high-rez files via USB. 
   
  Opamps are easy to switch, but they do need to be inserted correctly: http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/FUN/Replace%208740.jpg
   
  The decision to some extent comes down to the price of the B + USB + Wolfson vs. the A with those as stock components.  
   
  Whichever way you go, I hope you enjoy it a great deal!
   
  Ron


----------



## olor1n

If going the B version I'd recommend updating to the TE7022 for 24/92, WM8741 and DIR9001. My setup has wonderful synergy with the HD650 in this configuration, particularly with the Moon hdam and upocc copper cable. The only thing I'd want is the Neutrik locking jack found in the A version. I wished I'd enquired if that was an option for my pimped out B version when I ordered it.

The Fun arrived well packaged. I can't recall how long it took but it seemed a long time because I was anxious to receive it. Pricing is listed on the Audio-GD site.


----------



## sphinxvc

I'd also recommend triple and quadruple checking that Audio GD has your order specs right.  I ordered the B-version with the exact specs olor1n posted above, TE7022, WM8741 & DIR9001, but when I received the FUN the TE7022 wasn't installed.  Then they claimed they also conveniently forgot to charge me for it (even though no price is advertised for the TE7022 module on the site).
   





   
  Anyway, I'm not trying to deter you from buying from Audio GD, aside from that little mishap, I'm really happy with the FUN & I'd probably order from them again.
   
  Just do as much as you can to avoid getting the "Sorry, Edwin makes mistake." email.


----------



## matchuk28

hey guys,
   
  i checked my music library most of it are 44hz so would it make sense to spend more to get that usb upgradE? atm im planning on gettin the b version with moon and earth op amp with wm8741 upgrade which is around 305 usd delivered, the budget im trying stay at (since im gettin 300 aud proceeds from selling other
  gear)
   
  what is the dir9001?
   
  they told me the fastest they can ship is feb 15th so i want to put in my order soon
   
  thanks


----------



## sphinxvc

^^ I believe the DIR9001 has lower jitter; track back to pg. 61 for an explanation of the sonic differences between DIR9001 vs WM8805 (last post on the page).
   
  I vote you forego the USB module as you always have optical or coax input if you want more than 44khz/16-bit.


----------



## Roberttt

Hi, i have an ASUS essence stx soundcard and a pair of AKG K701. I'm considering buying Audio GD FUN(345$ version) or C2.1 head amp. My budget limit is at 450$. But i dont know what is the better combo, to use ASUS stx soundcard as dac and Audio GD C2.1 as head amp or to use FUN dac/amp only?  
      Thank you for future answers!


----------



## matchuk28

Quote: 





roberttt said:


> Hi, i have an ASUS essence stx soundcard and a pair of AKG K701. I'm considering buying Audio GD FUN(345$ version) or C2.1 head amp. My budget limit is at 450$. But i dont know what is the better combo, to use ASUS stx soundcard as dac and Audio GD C2.1 as head amp or to use FUN dac/amp only?
> Thank you for future answers!


 

  
  from my research here its definately an upgrade you also get the mobility of moving ur setup around where as with the xonar your stuck on your computer, but given 200 i think the xonar is still an awesome item but at 400 def get the fun


----------



## sphinxvc

Go for the the FUN.  You can always sell that sound card on ebay for ~$150.


----------



## matchuk28

just a question you guys might be able to answer ...
   
  from what i have researched the op amps function is to amplify the analog signal after the dac conversion to a strong enuff signal to feed into the amplifier ... isnt that what a pre amp does for stereos? and why would an op amp have a sound signature if its job is just to amplify the signal without distortion? we should only expect better quality op amps to sound better with less distortion rather than having its own signature sound?
   
  thanks


----------



## Lazerboy2000

I sent an email to Audiogd for a price quote,  but with the holidays and weekend I may not hear back for a few days. 
   
  What's been the average total cost (plus shipping) for the Version B of the FUN? I'm probably gonna go with stock components to save money but what should I be looking at paying?


----------



## matchuk28

Quote: 





lazerboy2000 said:


> I sent an email to Audiogd for a price quote,  but with the holidays and weekend I may not hear back for a few days.
> 
> What's been the average total cost (plus shipping) for the Version B of the FUN? I'm probably gonna go with stock components to save money but what should I be looking at paying?


 

 I just sent payment to audio gd for a fun B it was 340 usd total with upgraded wm8741 te7022 and earth/moon opa.
   
  If you want the version B with no upgrades you might as well get the sparrow. But im sure others here will agree with me you rather spend alittle more for at least the upgraded DAC and some op amps which is the main feature that makes the amp fun. (mad pun lol)
   
  i will post an impression when it arrives.


----------



## Lazerboy2000

Quote: 





matchuk28 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nope I want the FUN because of its inputs and outputs which the Sparrow doesn't have. I can always upgrade later when I want but I'm sure I'll be perfectly happy with the stock options anyway. I did get a reply back from AudioGD and the stock version B including shipping is $270. This is shipping to Virginia


----------



## olor1n




----------



## matthewh133

Mine just arrived today but I can't get windows to recognize it


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Mine just arrived today but I can't get windows to recognize it


 

 See if this helps
   
   
http://cid-1eb7027489224a7d.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public/Teralink-X2%20ASIO%20beta%20driver%20for%20XP


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> See if this helps
> 
> 
> http://cid-1eb7027489224a7d.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public/Teralink-X2%20ASIO%20beta%20driver%20for%20XP


 
  Just installed both of those, doesn't seem to have done anything. Thanks anyway. Anyone else have any ideas? Was there something you had to do once you got your FUN to get it recognized by windows?


----------



## matthewh133

Adding another photo to give a better representation of what's going on. Windows seems to be having an issue with it..


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Adding another photo to give a better representation of what's going on. Windows seems to be having an issue with it..


 
   
   
  Whilst I look around.
   
  Unplug your DAC, delete those yellow flagged devices.  Reboot and plug into a different USB port if you can.


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Will do, thanks mate.


----------



## matthewh133

Alright, uninstalled, rebooted and gave a different USB port a shot, still the same issue. New toy and not being able to use it = sucky.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Alright, uninstalled, rebooted and gave a different USB port a shot, still the same issue. New toy and not being able to use it = sucky.


 


  I didn't find anythings else.  Looks like an email to A-GD.


----------



## olor1n

Sorry Matt, I can't help you buddy. I use a Macbook and it's plug and play for me.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Alright, uninstalled, rebooted and gave a different USB port a shot, still the same issue. New toy and not being able to use it = sucky.


 


  Just for grins, I would disable all Virus scanners and malware blockers, and firewalls and try again.
   
   
  Delete the yellow flag devices.  
   
  I would also go and get the latest drivers for your laptop and /or motherboard.  Check the usb settings in the bios.
   
  I installed a USB 3.0 Blackmagic HD Capture device recently and it wouldn't work till I upgraded the NEC USB drivers.


----------



## matthewh133

Thanks for the suggestions guys. It looks like my drivers are all up to date, so I'm not quite sure of the issue. I will have to send an email off to Kingwa.


----------



## Lazerboy2000

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions guys. It looks like my drivers are all up to date, so I'm not quite sure of the issue. I will have to send an email off to Kingwa.


 


  matthew, once you get your setup up and running I'd love to know how you like the FUN+KRKs. You have pretty much the same setup as I'm hoping to get. Will you be using the line-out>>KRKs and just use the line-out button to switch between headphones and speakers? Goodluck figuring out your driver issues. Thanks


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





lazerboy2000 said:


> matthew, once you get your setup up and running I'd love to know how you like the FUN+KRKs. You have pretty much the same setup as I'm hoping to get. Will you be using the line-out>>KRKs and just use the line-out button to switch between headphones and speakers? Goodluck figuring out your driver issues. Thanks


 

 Yeah that's pretty much it mate. I will let you know. Hoping Kingwa can help me out with getting it up and running soon because my AD2000s should be here today or tomorrow!


----------



## matthewh133

Just an update, I plugged it into my Windows laptop and it worked fine.. so it's 100% something to do with my computer.. which is probably more of a pain to find out what's wrong.


----------



## ljperez84

Quote: 





rono said:


> I recently replaced the USB module in my Fun, the original 48/16 module quit working.  The replacement is the TE7022 based module. I mostly used ASIO with my Windows XP laptop, now I'm using that same laptop but running Win 7 32 bit, with Foobar and the WASAPI output component installed.  Since the new USB supports up to 96/24, is that what you all use in the settings in control panel? :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I´m about to recieve my FUN and would also like to know about this....I want to get bit perfect sound from the first minute 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 so what is better for the FUN and its usb module? whats the best way to configure it in windows 7?

 I will use the FUN with the laptop (flac and 320 mp3), but I also will be using a sony bdp-s370 as transport for cds (using coax).

 for dvds and blu rays would you recommend to use the fun as DAC or just as AMP? the 370 is supposed to have a Wolfson DAC, SACD capable,

 Also the S370 gives me the option on the coax output to be either DPCM or Dobly / DTS. what should I select? 


 Thanks for your advice!


----------



## olor1n

Although the vast majority of my music is 44.1/16 alac, I've elected to set my output from my Macbook to 92/24. It may be artificial and barely noticeable in most instances, but I find this upscaling gives me a smoother, fuller sound and a wider presentation. Ymmv.


----------



## ljperez84

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Just an update, I plugged it into my Windows laptop and it worked fine.. so it's 100% something to do with my computer.. which is probably more of a pain to find out what's wrong.


 

  
  Try disabling all non MS services at msconfig.exe - selective start (safe boot) and restart your pc. Then reconnect the DAC and see what happens. Hope that helps!


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





ljperez84 said:


> Try disabling all non MS services at msconfig.exe - selective start (safe boot) and restart your pc. Then reconnect the DAC and see what happens. Hope that helps!


 
   
  Thanks for trying to help mate, I gave it a shot but still didn't work. Just got my brothers new PC up and running and again it worked perfectly fine on that >.> I am thinking I might have to do a fresh reformat and see if that works..


----------



## ljperez84

Sorry to hear that, Reinstalling windows is always a pain in the a...

 good luck!


----------



## RonO

Quote: 





ljperez84 said:


> I´m about to recieve my FUN and would also like to know about this....I want to get bit perfect sound from the first minute
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I meant to post a follow up to my earlier post with what I'd found out.  I think the settings I have are correct for bit perfect via WASAPI in the screenshots I posted.  The first screen cap I posted of the Advanced tab from control panel is the sample rate windows used when it is using the mixer (shared mode).  This sample rate should not be relevant to getting bit perfect, as when using WASAPI, you are using exclusive mode, and mixer is bypassed.  If you were using the DAC via the Mixer then this is the bit rate it will used for shared mode access from windows, i.e. sound coming from multiple sources, like a video or song playing, and sound coming from a windows itself like a warning bell sound, it will be resampled from the various sources to this rate. 
   
  Over in foobar, the setting for 24 bit is correct.  Per a couple sources I found, windows will pad 16bit material with zero's, so it remains bit perfect. If you play 24 bit material, it passes along just fine.  
   
  Take a look at: http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Lib/OperatingSystemsHandlingOfSampleRates.pdf and other links on the same site.  The author has sections on USB DAC and on foobar with lots of detail.  I also found some references on head-fi in some of the other audio-gd threads, as several other devices use the TE7022, so the setup is the same if its a Fun or some Reference model they sell.
   
  RonO


----------



## RonO

Matthew - 
   
  I recently replaced the USB interface on my Fun, it was the older 48/16 USB, not the newer TE7022 based interface.  The old one would not work, plug and play saw it, but reported it as an unknown device. Obviously it was fried, as replacing it got it to work again.  I have had the same experience as you with finicky USB, I have an old compaq laptop, and getting the USB interface to PnP on that is a chore, yet on my somewhat newer desktop PC, it works like clockwork.  Here is something you can try - each time you install a USB device (or pretty much any device for that matter) in windows, a device is created in the device manager.  These devices never leave the system, they just become hidden when not in use.  In case one of the instances of the USB is causing you the problem, you can clear out the hidden instances of the USB DAC from the machine.  
   
  You need to run a CMD.exe command prompt *as administrator, *then once in the command prompt, follow http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315539, which consists of setting this environment variable:
   
  set devmgr_show_nonpresent_devices=1
   
  and then from that command prompt window with the environment variable set, run devmgmt.msc.  Once in devmgmt, make sure to click on "show hidden devices" on the view tab to see the hidden devices.
   
  Here is a sample from my desktop PC:
   

   
  You see the TE7022 shows up 3 times, why?... because I've used different USB ports, causing the PnP detection to trigger a new device each time. Also notice they are "dim", as they are not active devices on the system, and are hidden. You can highlight each entry, right click and choose Uninstall to remove the device.  You can also see a good example below, the "Fuji FinePix Camera" device got installed when my camera PnP'ed on the system.  
   
  Essentially all this will do is make the next occurance of a PnP detection re-detect and reset all the device settings. It might help, and won't take over 5 minutes try.
   
  Good luck!
   
  RonO


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





rono said:


> Matthew -
> 
> I recently replaced the USB interface on my Fun, it was the older 48/16 USB, not the newer TE7022 based interface.  The old one would not work, plug and play saw it, but reported it as an unknown device. Obviously it was fried, as replacing it got it to work again.  I have had the same experience as you with finicky USB, I have an old compaq laptop, and getting the USB interface to PnP on that is a chore, yet on my somewhat newer desktop PC, it works like clockwork.  Here is something you can try - each time you install a USB device (or pretty much any device for that matter) in windows, a device is created in the device manager.  These devices never leave the system, they just become hidden when not in use.  In case one of the instances of the USB is causing you the problem, you can clear out the hidden instances of the USB DAC from the machine.
> 
> ...


 

 Sweet post!


----------



## ljperez84

Thanks Rono! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  btw, stupid question, how did your old usb module get fried?


----------



## matthewh133

Thanks very much Ron0 for the very informative post, but unfortunately no other TE7022 devices show up when I have it showing hidden, so that's not the problem. I am thinking that a fresh reformat my be the only way to go.


----------



## matchuk28

so i just setup my android phone to serve as a remote control for foobar
   
  now i can plug my laptop and fun in on a shelf and put my headphone stand near my bed and listen in bed with control via my mobile


----------



## srisaikat

Quote: 





ljperez84 said:


> I´m about to recieve my FUN and would also like to know about this....I want to get bit perfect sound from the first minute
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  As far my experience concerns, it will not be real bit-perfect if you use coax of your dvd player to feed the Fun (or any other dac), so not the quality output you expecting. I have googled and researched the whole matter for quite some time as well as experienced it practically. The DVD player going to down mix or down sample the source matter using its internal dac or logic before feed out to coax. So believe me, you going to get same quality over DVD player's own RCA output as well as through coax output using Fun. I mean to say superior quality dac inside Fun will process the down sampled bit-stream (to make it analog) from dvd player (through coax) without knowing what happened to the original source which was compromised up the flow. You just missing the full capability of your external DAC and so the quality. Either use a DVD player with superior DAC housed inside or pair the Fun with computer (USB preferable) with softwares which will avoid the internal mixing of OS as far possible.


----------



## Kreisleriana

Wow, I really would like to buy this now!
  How does the A version compare to Yulong D100?


----------



## ljperez84

Quote: 





srisaikat said:


> As far my experience concerns, it will not be real bit-perfect if you use coax of your dvd player to feed the Fun (or any other dac), so not the quality output you expecting. I have googled and researched the whole matter for quite some time as well as experienced it practically. The DVD player going to down mix or down sample the source matter using its internal dac or logic before feed out to coax. So believe me, you going to get same quality over DVD player's own RCA output as well as through coax output using Fun. I mean to say superior quality dac inside Fun will process the down sampled bit-stream (to make it analog) from dvd player (through coax) without knowing what happened to the original source which was compromised up the flow. You just missing the full capability of your external DAC and so the quality. Either use a DVD player with superior DAC housed inside or pair the Fun with computer (USB preferable) with softwares which will avoid the internal mixing of OS as far possible.


 
   
 [size=medium] 
  The BDP-S370 on board DAC (Wolfson) supossed to handle up to 24 bit / 192 KHz. Nevertheles SPDIF output has its limitations.

 Digital audio via SPDIF is limited to LPCM, dts and Dolby Digital. CD will be outputed via SPDIF at 44.1kHz / 16 bits.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/517789/2010-model-sacd-player-from-sony-bdp-s370-bargain-of-the-century-hi-fi-world-magazine/90

  ​[/size]


----------



## matchuk28

if someone could provide a quick guide to show non electrical gurus how to change op amps properly without damaging them for this thread it would be highly appreciated


----------



## RonO

>  btw, stupid question, how did your old usb module get fried?

 I've no clue...  I had the Fun setup on a shelf with my two channel setup, a receiver, 5 disc CD changer and a Project turntable.  I would use the DAC out connection to my receiver, the 5 disc CD on coax, and a long as spec allows USB cable (5 meters) connected also..  This allowed me to sit across the room is my beat-up lazy boy chair, and play tunes via USB from my laptop, and either listen via speakers or HP.  I'm guessing either static electricity from me getting in an out of the chair, or it could be my wife or dog "pulled" the cable somehow to physically break the module.  It just would no longer PnP, showed up as "unknown device".   I figured it cheaper for me to just order the new part then to send the whole thing back to China for repair.  It worked out, but with shipping it was $50. Sometimes I think I have the world's most expensive Fun, with 3 DAC's, 2 Opamps, 2 USB's and a w h o l e lot of shipping charges.  Cheers!
   
  RonO


----------



## RonO

Quote: 





matchuk28 said:


> if someone could provide a quick guide to show non electrical gurus how to change op amps properly without damaging them for this thread it would be highly appreciated


 

 If you look at the default OPA2134 that is installed in the socket, you notice a small notch or D shaped impression on one end.  This is the key for the direction of the chip. It faces the rear of the case  The Earth and Moon modules I have also  D printed in black on the bottom to get correct orientation.  I think the socket itself also has the D on the end pointing to the rear, so you orient by lining up the D to D.  It's easier to just make sure the ground wire of the Earth or Moon are facing toward the front:
   

   
  (Photo credit: Audio-gd.com)
   
  If this doesn't explain it well enough - just let me know and I'll get some photos from inside my amp with the OPA removed.
   
  RonO


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


matchuk28 said:


> if someone could provide a quick guide to show non electrical gurus how to change op amps properly without damaging them for this thread it would be highly appreciated


 

 I posted this month ago, it should help:
  --
  (http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/468522/review-of-the-audio-gd-fun-a-modular-dac-headphone-amp-preamp/915#post_7232872)
    That's the stock opa and yes it is a bit difficult to get off, you just need to get under it with something and pry it off.  
  Orient the Earth/Moon/Sun the correct way.  (The ground wire should be coming out of the opa facing the front of the Fun.)
  Insert the Earth/Moon/Sun.
  Unscrew the ground / place the Earth/Moon/Sun's ground connection there and screw it down.  (It's just there to secure the wire, you don't have to go crazy getting it tight.)
   
  Here's a picture of mine with the ground wire's connection visible.  Again, do make sure you get the orientation of the Earth/Moon/Sun correct.  
   



   
   
  Edit: Here's another guide: http://ref.ampcity.co.uk/opa-installation-guide.pdf


  --


----------



## matthewh133

Just an update regarding the issues I had with my FUN. I just did a fresh reformat and install of windows and everything is daisy. Happy camper.


----------



## olor1n

Glad it worked out Matt. Have you had the chance to compare the Fun's amp section to the Burson?


----------



## KevinFlippo

Quote: 





n0sferatu said:


> Everyone talks of the Earth and Moon....am I the only one using the SUN opamp lol ???  I think it sounds fantastic.


 



 I am using the SUN OPA too.  It really woke the FUN up.  When I got it in December the FUN sounded similar to the MF V-DAC that I had purchased earlier but had a much smoother high end.  I was hoping it would break-in and start to open up and get a bit more dynamic.  I ordered the SUN OPA and received it about 3 weeks ago.  Wow! What a difference that made.  Now the system is very dynamic and very detailed without any edgy-ness. It still has a very smooth and detailed high end with a very resolved midrange and bass.  Things like the slap of drum skins by drum sticks, fingers moving up & down the frets and other fine details most systems gloss over or just don't resolve are brought out.  The laid-back, politeness that the FUN first had when I fired it up has been replaced with Musical Life after 300+ hours of burn-in and the SUN OPA.  I also picked up a new set of Denon AH-D5000 HP's last week when Amazon was running them for $399.   Out of the box the Denon's blew my HD600's away in bass, detail and dynamics.  I can't wait for the Denon's to finish breaking-in.   I could not be happier with the FUN and the Denon's at this time.


----------



## Mad Max

It's FUN to play with SUN.


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Glad it worked out Matt. Have you had the chance to compare the Fun's amp section to the Burson?


 

 Not yet mate. One week left of study until trimester break so I'm pretty flat out. Will probably post impressions in a couple weeks.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


matthewh133 said:


> Not yet mate. One week left of study until trimester break so I'm pretty flat out. Will probably post impressions in a couple weeks.


----------



## matthewh133

Does anyone here have experience with the RS1i straight out of the Audio-GD FUN as a combo? Interested to hear your thoughts.


----------



## N0sferatu

Good deal bro!  I love my Denon AH-D7000s with the SUN OPA.  Can't beat the bass on these cans.  Trance music is epic on this setup.
  
  Quote: 





kevinflippo said:


> I am using the SUN OPA too.  It really woke the FUN up.  When I got it in December the FUN sounded similar to the MF V-DAC that I had purchased earlier but had a much smoother high end.  I was hoping it would break-in and start to open up and get a bit more dynamic.  I ordered the SUN OPA and received it about 3 weeks ago.  Wow! What a difference that made.  Now the system is very dynamic and very detailed without any edgy-ness. It still has a very smooth and detailed high end with a very resolved midrange and bass.  Things like the slap of drum skins by drum sticks, fingers moving up & down the frets and other fine details most systems gloss over or just don't resolve are brought out.  The laid-back, politeness that the FUN first had when I fired it up has been replaced with Musical Life after 300+ hours of burn-in and the SUN OPA.  I also picked up a new set of Denon AH-D5000 HP's last week when Amazon was running them for $399.   Out of the box the Denon's blew my HD600's away in bass, detail and dynamics.  I can't wait for the Denon's to finish breaking-in.   I could not be happier with the FUN and the Denon's at this time.


----------



## matchuk28

just got my fun delivered to my office, the box is quite huge and heavy didnt expect it at all. packaging was good with foam and a nice box (except the "handle with careful" LOL) going to lug it home soon and install the earth op amp (hopefully a fast and easy swap) and test it out
   
  ill post some initial impressions after, so excited!


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





matchuk28 said:


> just got my fun delivered to my office, the box is quite huge and heavy didnt expect it at all. packaging was good with foam and a nice box (except the "handle with careful" LOL) going to lug it home soon and install the earth op amp (hopefully a fast and easy swap) and test it out
> 
> ill post some initial impressions after, so excited!


 

 I do admit I did chuckle at the "handle with careful" also.


----------



## matchuk28

so i damaged one of the screws so the + grip is gone and i cant open the fun to replace the opa ><
   
  so atm im testing wm8741 against the texus instrument one in the xonar essence stx using my nad amp i can easily switch between laptop-->te7022-->nad-->whardale speakers and computer -->asus xonar essence stx-->nad-->wharfedale speakers
   
  did a blind test and i can tell the wm4781 from the pc1792
   
  both are close but the wolfson wm 4781 was just more detailed only slightly more tho, im going to test the xonar essence stx headphone vs the audio gd now


----------



## olor1n

Too early to do any comparison. Your Fun will sound better after a few hundred hours.


----------



## matchuk28

yeah i just did a comparison between xonar and audio gd with hd 650 the difference isnt that big atm like fun is slightly better
   
  never realised how capable the xonar was until i did this comparison
   
  i wish i could sort this out this stupid screw issue and to install the earth and burn the amp in


----------



## ljperez84

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Too early to do any comparison. Your Fun will sound better after a few hundred hours.


 


  I'm supossed to recieve my FUN today according to the DHL tracking numer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have two questions for you:

 How should I burn in the FUN? I usually use pink noise and freq sweeps for heaphones, but for DAC/ AMP: Should it be playing something or leaving it on is enough? Should cans be connected?

 How would you rate the sinergy of the FUN with your HD650? does it make them shine at their full potential?  I have a pair of SR225i, but sometimes the brightsound can be fatiguing. Im considering buying a used pair of HD600 as complement, and I think your HD650 may be a good reference.


----------



## matchuk28

hey guys kinda random question does anyone know wat size screws are used for the fun chasis, i need to find a screw remover but i have no idea wat type of screw/size it is ..
   
  thanks


----------



## matchuk28

ok got the screw sorted and installed the earth opa installation was easy however i spent 20mins cos i was attempting to pull out the wrong thing for others who is doing it for the first time the stock opa is just the top layer not the black bit as well...
   
   
  atm im not sure if its the burn in effect or the earth opa but it sounds alot better than it did yesterday the bass is tighter with more impact and the sound stage is slightly bigger
   
  going to let the earth burn in before i type another impression


----------



## ljperez84

For a change from one day to another I'd say it is the opa.
   
  How are you letting your FUN burn in? do you just leave it on or leave something playing? Cans connected?

 Thanks for your advice on the opa change, I will swap today the stock one. Nevertheless I can't decide if it is going to be earth or moon. I guess earth.
   
  Quote: 





matchuk28 said:


> ok got the screw sorted and installed the earth opa installation was easy however i spent 20mins cos i was attempting to pull out the wrong thing for others who is doing it for the first time the stock opa is just the top layer not the black bit as well...
> 
> 
> atm im not sure if its the burn in effect or the earth opa but it sounds alot better than it did yesterday the bass is tighter with more impact and the sound stage is slightly bigger
> ...


----------



## matchuk28

last nite listening to the earth the difference i noticed was the bass is more detailed, the vocals have more timbre ( i think tahts the word for it) as the vocals fade away and overall the music was more lively.
   
  at first the fun was very laidback but clear and loud i felt it wanst exciting at all now the earth it sounds alot better
   
  yeah just becareful i dmged the black plastic under the op amp cos i was trying to pry that out instead of the op amp ....
   
  im at work right now but i left my amp and hd 650 at home on repeat play list since 7:30 i am quite scared it mite overheat or something might get damaged by the time i get home
   
  has someone tried leaving their setup on like this such a long time to burn in? does the amp overheat?


----------



## sling5s

Can anyone confirm that the Fun Pacific Value version is superior to the regular A Version of the Fun that Audio GD sells.
*The Pacific Valve version uses the AD1852, DIR9001, and FET **Output Buffers. * 
  Here's a quote on the website:
   
  "DAC chip makes very little difference on how a DAC sounds.  Well, we were right. When we 
 substituted the “looks good on paper” Wolfson codec for the vintage AD1852, 
 the sound stage shrank quite a bit and vocals took on a nasal quality.  
 Replacing the AD 1852 chip, the sound opened up and vocalists had their 
 throats back.
   
  sorry if this was covered in the thread.


----------



## Currawong

Leave it switched on for a couple of weeks. Nothing bad will happen. You don't need to play music through it either, it is the heat that causes the "burn in" (nothing is burning though).


----------



## matthewh133

Please excuse my ignorance, but when swapping the opamps, will this effect the sound if you're using DAC out to a separate amplifier, or is this part of the amplifier section only?


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Can anyone confirm that the Fun Pacific Value version is superior to the regular A Version of the Fun that Audio GD sells.
> *The Pacific Valve version uses the AD1852, DIR9001, and FET **Output Buffers. *
> Here's a quote on the website:
> 
> ...


 


  I haven't read the earlier posts of this thread for some time, but if memory serves me right most members preferred even the WM8740 when it was first offered as an alternative. There was also consensus that the WM8741 was an upgrade to the WM8740.
   
  Different topologies so I don't know how fair this comparison is, but when I had the FiiO E7 (WM8740) I recall thinking it was congested and lacked the resolution and transparency of the Fun's dac (WM8741). This was when I only had the M50 and MS-1i (low impedance), so the E7's modest amp section shouldn't have been too disadvantaged against the Fun's amp (lol).
   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *matthewh133* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Please excuse my ignorance, but when swapping the opamps, will this effect the sound if you're using DAC out to a separate amplifier, or is this part of the amplifier section only


 
   
  There's no opamp in the Fun's discrete amp section. The opamp is in the dac's output stage. I assume it would affect the sound from the dedicated dac output, as well as the line out (someone correct me if I'm wrong).


----------



## haloxt

I think ad1852's strongest point is high frequency clarity that is easy to focus on, but with bright headphones can be fatiguing. In other spheres I think I prefer the wm8741.


----------



## ljperez84

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Leave it switched on for a couple of weeks. Nothing bad will happen. You don't need to play music through it either, it is the heat that causes the "burn in" (nothing is burning though).


 


  Thanks for answering!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> I think ad1852's strongest point is high frequency clarity that is easy to focus on, but with bright headphones can be fatiguing. In other spheres I think I prefer the wm8741.


 


  X2
   
  Also the jumper (over sampling ) is set on the module from the factory at 2X OS...for a bright can or bright source material it might help to set the jumper to 4X OS which will smooth out the treble response a little bit. I also found that swapping out the NoVer caps on the DAC module itself for Nichicon FG/KZ or Elna cerafine (then bypassed with film or poly box caps) further refined the treble not to mention the bass and mids to boot. Similar in nature to what the FrankenZERO mod did for the Zero which uses the same AD1852 chip.
   
  Peete.


----------



## matchuk28

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> I haven't read the earlier posts of this thread for some time, but if memory serves me right most members preferred even the WM8740 when it was first offered as an alternative. There was also consensus that the WM8741 was an upgrade to the WM8740.
> 
> Different topologies so I don't know how fair this comparison is, but when I had the FiiO E7 (WM8740) I recall thinking it was congested and lacked the resolution and transparency of the Fun's dac (WM8741). This was when I only had the M50 and MS-1i (low impedance), so the E7's modest amp section shouldn't have been too disadvantaged against the Fun's amp (lol).
> 
> ...


 

 i think the op amp does affect the dac output, im listening to this setup atm usb -->fun earth --> nad --> wharfedale speakers and it sounds different from when i had it with the xonar, the earth made the timbre effect better and gave the speakers a better sense of "projection" i dont have the audio jargon to explain what im hearing lol
   
   
  im going to try the moon in 2 weeks


----------



## olor1n

After extensive back and forth, I've found I prefer the warmer and more forward presentation of moon to the comparatively clinical presentation of earth with the HD650. I find it has more body and energy, with prominent bass (perhaps exaggerated at times).
   
  I've been considering the Wharfedale 9.1 for some time as a budget nearfield stereo setup. I've been looking at the Yamaha A-S300 stereo amp as well. I'd be interested to read your findings with moon in place and also how the sound from the speakers compare to the HD650 signature.


----------



## matchuk28

if u want the 9.1 get it from clef hifi i think i got it around 300 + shipping and i would suggest looking around for a nice 2nd hand stereo amp 
   
  having speakers is great sometimes when u want to listen to music without headphones, also makes great use of the dacs preamp abilities!


----------



## matthewh133

Ok I got around to doing a bit of comparisons between using the FUN alone, vs using the FUN's DAC and the Burson as an amp. The 2 main things that stand out are that I believe there is a slight increase in sound stage with using the Burson as the amp. The other thing is I think there's a little more bass detail and a tiny bit more quantity with the Burson, but not a lot. Overall, I don't think it's a huge upgrade over using the standalone fun, but the advantage definitely goes to the FUN DAC and Burson amp combo. It just sound a little more spacious and dynamic.

 Oh, I also have an LCD-2 on the way, which should arrive in a couple of weeks. I can post impressions on the FUN with it if anyone is interested. I will be keeping the Burson for the LCD-2 as I have heard nothing but good stories about the synergy between the two.


----------



## olor1n

How long have you had the Fun now Matt? I've gone back to my early posts in this very thread and am reminded of how the Fun improved for me over time. I'm not saying your comparison is invalid (it's what I expected), but the change the Fun undergoes after a long burn in is well documented.
   
  On a related note, does anyone else notice how much better their Fun sounds after being left on for some time? It's mentioned by others throughout this thread and I never really paid much heed to it but over the last few weeks, and particularly with my upocc copper HD650 cable, it's been apparent that my Fun requires a warm up to sound its best. I often fire up the Fun of an evening and find that it doesn't quiet sound as full and dynamic as I remember it. I tend to do other things for an hour and come back after leaving it on to find the signature that I'm now very familiar with. What's with that?


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> How long have you had the Fun now Matt? I've gone back to my early posts in this very thread and am reminded of how the Fun improved for me over time. I'm not saying your comparison is invalid (it's what I expected), but the change the Fun undergoes after a long burn in is well documented.
> 
> On a related note, does anyone else notice how much better their Fun sounds after being left on for some time? It's mentioned by others throughout this thread and I never really paid much heed to it but over the last few weeks, and particularly with my upocc copper HD650 cable, it's been apparent that my Fun requires a warm up to sound its best. I often fire up the Fun of an evening and find that it doesn't quiet sound as full and dynamic as I remember it. I tend to do other things for an hour and come back after leaving it on to find the signature that I'm now very familiar with. What's with that?


 

 I've had it for a couple of weeks I think. Probably put 50 hours on it on top of whatever the previous owner had done.


----------



## sphinxvc

Matthew, thanks for the comparison, these amp A/Bs sober the urge to upgrade.  They also make the axiom 'source first' seem very true.  
   
  On that note, it seems the Fun will soon be the weakest link in your chain.  Any plans on moving on?


----------



## olor1n

It's the other way for me sphinx. Comparisons and reading other threads exacerbate the upgrade itch, but once I start listening to my setup the voice of reason (and my wallet pleading) comes to the fore.


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Matthew, thanks for the comparison, these amp A/Bs sober the urge to upgrade.  They also make the axiom 'source first' seem very true.
> 
> On that note, it seems the Fun will soon be the weakest link in your chain.  Any plans on moving on?


 

 Yes I am aware, and it's nagging on me now lol. I am tempted to sell both the HA-160 and FUN and get a Burson HA-160D (only would cost me an extra $150 after selling). It seems the Burson DAC would be a decent upgrade over the FUN's judging by reviews.
   
  I recently listened to a B32 Buffalo DAC and Mapletree Audio Super II combo and compared it to my combo with my AD2000s. I noticed the highs and lows extended a bit further, which was actually really nice. Both myself and the owner of the other combo were surprised at how noticeable it was. I am not quite sure which part of the chain this was a result of, but I can't help but feel the need to upgrade my DAC now.


----------



## matchuk28

have u guys seen the mhdt labs constantine or havana
   
  looks awesome
   
  i think i wont be upgrading my stereo or headphone setup for ages, my next upgrade would be floor standings + listening room


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Ok I got around to doing a bit of comparisons between using the FUN alone, vs using the FUN's DAC and the Burson as an amp. The 2 main things that stand out are that I believe there is a slight increase in sound stage with using the Burson as the amp. The other thing is I think there's a little more bass detail and a tiny bit more quantity with the Burson, but not a lot. Overall, I don't think it's a huge upgrade over using the standalone fun, but the advantage definitely goes to the FUN DAC and Burson amp combo. It just sound a little more spacious and dynamic.
> 
> Oh, I also have an LCD-2 on the way, which should arrive in a couple of weeks. I can post impressions on the FUN with it if anyone is interested. I will be keeping the Burson for the LCD-2 as I have heard nothing but good stories about the synergy between the two.


 

 The Burson and the now discontinued Audio-gd C-2C share a lot in common under the chassis lids...very similar concepts with Burson using their updated discrete opamp design and A-gd their version. I feel the FUN is roughly 85% of the C-2C with it's amp section...the C-2C like the Burson fleshes things out a little better. I wonder if the Burson applies it gain in the current mode like the ACSS stages in the A-gd gear ? I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
   
  Peete.


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> The Burson and the now discontinued Audio-gd C-2C share a lot in common under the chassis lids...very similar concepts with Burson using their updated discrete opamp design and A-gd their version. I feel the FUN is roughly 85% of the C-2C with it's amp section...the C-2C like the Burson fleshes things out a little better. I wonder if the Burson applies it gain in the current mode like the ACSS stages in the A-gd gear ? I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
> 
> Peete.


 

 That's actually quite interesting, I didn't know that. I never really pay much attention to what's under the lid as long as it's working! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can see how that it so, because they are quite similar, I'd just say the Burson has that little extra refinement which makes it more enjoyable.


----------



## sphinxvc

So the (ADA4627-1B) op-amp I had deemed lost has finally arrived (1500mi. / 5 weeks transit).  Initial Impressions prior to burn-in:
   
  Everything is much more fleshed out; the entire soundstage feels very well defined.  In comparison the Earth feels more congested, and gone is the clinical presentation.  The presentation is still closer to the neutral Earth than the mid-centric presentation of the Moon, but there is a noticeable improvement in the vocals over the Earth.  Because the soundstage is so well defined the midrange and vocals are better isolated, bleeding less into other parts of the frequency range, giving 'em a nice clear presence.  The Moon has a focus on the mid-range which neglect the instruments that live in the microdetails, anyone who has heard the Sun can attest to that, not so with the 4627.  In comparison to the Earth and Moon, this op-amp has a more dynamic feel.  It isn't like the Sun though, nothing artificial about it's presentation.  Transparent.  Musical.  Less blobby soundstage.  The best op-amp so far to get lost with into the music.  More of a complete package than the Audio-GD op-amps.  
   
  Edit: I should have about 4 more op-amps for the Fun by the middle of March, so I'll probably do a comprehensive review of all 8 op-amps once they're all burned in.


----------



## olor1n

I'm listening to an alternative rock internet radio station at the moment and none of the deficiencies you've mentioned (even at a low 256kbps stream) regarding "fog" in the highs and in low end, as well as congestion in the soundstage just is not apparent through my setup. The only difference in our setup is that I set my Audio Midi output to 96/24 (smoother with bigger soundstage) and I use a upocc copper cable (refines everything, ie wider soundstage, more distinct and seemingly deeper bass, more forward sound but without congestion). If only you could hear what I'm hearing.


----------



## Scytus

Woops, realized i shouldve posted my question here:

I was reading about the FUN and all positive reviews, until I came across this comment on Headfonia:
http://www.headfonia.com/burson-ha-160d-review/#comment-135841605
 
Apparently to Headfonia_Mike, the compass was quite awful..
So my question is how would the FUN compare with the older version Compass? considering it's basically a revision of the Compass.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


olor1n said:


> I'm listening to an alternative rock internet radio station at the moment and none of the deficiencies you've mentioned (even at a low 256kbps stream) regarding "fog" in the highs and in low end, as well as congestion in the soundstage just is not apparent through my setup. The only difference in our setup is that I set my Audio Midi output to 96/24 (smoother with bigger soundstage) and I use a upocc copper cable (refines everything, ie wider soundstage, more distinct and seemingly deeper bass, more forward sound but without congestion). If only you could hear what I'm hearing.


 
   
  Okay, I don't think I articulated well what I meant to say last night.  There isn't something lacking in the highs and lows frequency wise.  There are microdetails that are somewhat missing in the Earth and Moon that you only come to notice when you use the Sun.  Like the Sun, the 4627 is very engaging.  
   
  Maybe you can provide your own impressions: I have an extra one of these coming in by mid-March and I wouldn't mind sending it to you if you just cover shipping (about $14 for a small 6-10 day international box + $1 for tracking).  It's plug and play.
   
  The 4627, along with the 827 is one of the better op-amps out there, check out the op-amp thread in the DIY forum.  
   
  As for the differences in our set-up, I guess the difference between the Earth & 4627 will be even more pronounced to you.  
   
  The Head-fi'er that soldered these for me had these descriptions:
   
  ADA4627-1: very neutral and completely transparent.  Earth can't do anything as good or better than 4627-1.

  OPA827: laid-back and ultra-smooth 

  OPA1611: wonderful, warm mids and prominent bass 

  THS4081: somewhat like a sort of TI counterpart to 4627-1 with tighter bass and more detail 

   

  The 4627 beats Earth, Moon and Sun hands down for Radiohead.


----------



## olor1n

PM sent sphinx.


----------



## sphinxvc

Leeperry posted this in the other FUN thread (why are there two FUN threads again? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) - thought it would get more exposure here:
   
   
http://audio.an-pan-man.com/files/rmaa/earth_vs_moon_vs_sunv2_vs_lt1469.htm
   
  Interesting stuff - shows the Moon has much higher stereo crosstalk than the Earth or Sun.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Leeperry posted this in the other FUN thread (why are there two FUN threads again?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


> http://audio.an-pan-man.com/files/rmaa/earth_vs_moon_vs_sunv2_vs_lt1469.htm
> 
> Interesting stuff - shows the Moon has much higher stereo crosstalk than the Earth or Sun.


 


  The Moon module is modelled after a classic SET circuit if that helps any.
   
  Peete.


----------



## N0sferatu

how are we to interpret those numbers?  I know what most of the numbers mean but I'm having a mental block as to whether higher or lower is better for certain values.  I know the lower THD the better but I'm having a brain fart at the moment.  Care to elaborate anyone?  Thanks.  
  
  Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> The Moon module is modelled after a classic SET circuit if that helps any.
> 
> Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





n0sferatu said:


> how are we to interpret those numbers?  I know what most of the numbers mean but I'm having a mental block as to whether higher or lower is better for certain values.  I know the lower THD the better but I'm having a brain fart at the moment.  Care to elaborate anyone?  Thanks.


 

 Look up single ended triode amp topology and any related commentary about how these amps circuits measure compared to other circuit designs. That should help you understand advantages and trade offs.
   
  Peete.


----------



## Scytus

I can't find a comparison anywhere, does anyone know how the Audio-GD FUN compares with the Matrix M-Stage?


----------



## fourwed

I recently bought the HD650 to pair with this baby. Oh my god, it is so good that I feel I did not listen music before.
   
  I have a question for those using this combination, FUN (Version A) + OPA Earth + HD650. Which gain mode do you use?
   
  IMO, high gain is more energetic, but the vocal and music seems mixed together. low gain is on the contrary, duller but vocal and music seems seperated.
   
  Besides, I can only turn the volume to around 9 o'clock in high gain mode but 11 o'clock in low gain mode. From what I have heard, FUN works the best from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock.
   
  Please share and advice.


----------



## olor1n

I use high gain with dial around 9 o'clock as I believe it's a more direct signal than using low gain. What you've read about the Fun working best between 10 and 2 is to do with outputting via the rca line out in high gain for best preamp results (it's on the Audio-GD website).
   
  Also, if you have Moon I'd suggest you give that a try. It's all a matter of preference of course, but I find its warm and musical synergy with the HD650 to be more engaging than the comparatively detached and analytical Earth. Burn in makes a huge difference to these components as well, so don't be too quick to judge.


----------



## sphinxvc

+1 High gain around 9 o' clock.
   
  How's the FUN doing with those speakers olor1n?


----------



## Lazerboy2000

Am I correct that it's feasable to order the stock B version, and then upgrade any/all parts at a later time on my own?
   
  Also, are there any "must have" upgrades from stock B that one should definitely get when ordering? What's been the average shipping time on these? Thanks


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


lazerboy2000 said:


> Am I correct that it's feasable to order the stock B version, and then upgrade any/all parts at a later time on my own?
> 
> Also, are there any "must have" upgrades from stock B that one should definitely get when ordering? What's been the average shipping time on these? Thanks


 
   
  All the upgrades are modular, so yes, you can upgrade on your own at any time.  /  WM8741  /  1-2 weeks.


----------



## olor1n

The A2s are a lot of fun and meet my needs perfectly for a space saving nearfield setup.

I'd agonised over what components to get and wanted to really invest in quality gear. In the end impulse and practical considerations won out and I decided to wait on getting the Dali Ikons or Monitor Audio BX2s for when I actually have the room to properly set up nice stereo gear.

The A2s though are very much justifying themselves. Placement is key and thankfully my desk allows me to have them on a shelf at ear level. It's certainly a colored presentation (unbelievable bass for such small speakers) but the sound is balancing out quite nicely with burn in. Placement and play time have tamed the boominess of the bass.

Soundwise it's quite close in signature to my MS-1i, with its energetic attack and prominent mid bass punch. Dubstep and female vocals have surprised as highlights though. I was floored at how wonderfully transparent Norah Jones sounded, but at the same time somewhat disappointed with the almost fatiguing presentation of the new Strokes album.

The A2s are in my chain via the Fun's line out (allowing me to use the Fun's dial to control volume in preamp mode), and I have a suspicion that it would have better synergy with Earth's resolution and more balanced presentation. However I don't want to lose the warmth, energy and forward presentation of Moon (particularly when I use the HD650) and lose the organic and wonderful intimacy of albums like Come Away With Me. It'll be fun to roll opamps to hopefully find a signature that matches the A2s and my HD650 preferences.


----------



## matchuk28

i bought a pair of a2's for my girlfriend too a few months ago, however never got the chance to hook it up to my FUN. She uses it directly out of a ipod via line out and on her laptop so yeah pretty bad dacs. However the a2's are quite amazing and the size is really good if you dont want full sized bookshelves. The bass is quite strong so im not sure if other genres will like it but for my taste in music its quite ideal.


----------



## olor1n

Man, I wish Kingwa would give me a discount on the NFB-10WM for all the people I've converted to the Fun.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


olor1n said:


> Man, I wish Kingwa would give me a discount on the NFB-10WM for all the people I've converted to the Fun.


 

 Ha!  I'd vouch for you.  
   
  You know, I can't help but feel you'd love tubes based on what I know of your preferences.  
   
  I think I like my FUN + Moon + K701s pairing a bit more than the FUN + ADA4627 + HD650 pairing.  I'm having second thoughts of moving on from the FUN now since this type of synergy will be hard to find with both cans.  On the other hand, my HD650s seem to be wasting away.  As I listen to the K701s I know the HD650s are capable of the same soundstage and probably better imaging and dimensionality if I'd throw more at 'em.  Listening to the K701s, I think I finally understand why people regard balanced and properly juiced HD650s on the same level as the $1K+ flagships.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Ha!  I'd vouch for you.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, as great as the Fun's synergy is with the HD650, I do get the sense that sky's the limit for these cans (hyperbole). Minute changes to signature are very apparent to me with the HD650. I really miss the refinement and bass slam of my upocc cable now.
   
  With regards to tube amps, I think you're right. But I'm going to hold off on that venture until its practical for me to start a foray in high end stereo setups.


----------



## fourwed

olor1n and sphinxvc, thanks a lot for your reply.
   
  I don't have the moon but I could get it very easily. I am a little afraid that the moon's warm signature would be a little too warm, although I am a friend of tube sound.


----------



## xtcriott

Sphinx, after hearing your FUN at the meetup yesterday I am seriously considering this as my first desktop amp. The whole modular aspect really appeals to me, and after hearing yours, I know I like the sound and power it is capable of. So don't be surprised if at the next meet you run into running a FUN.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


xtcriott said:


> Sphinx, after hearing your FUN at the meetup yesterday I am seriously considering this as my first desktop amp. The whole modular aspect really appeals to me, and after hearing yours, I know I like the sound and power it is capable of. So don't be surprised if at the next meet you run into running a FUN.


 

 That's great man.  After hearing all the high-end amplifiers and DAC combinations yesterday, I have a new found respect for the FUN.  Which of my phones did you like best or did you try your own?


----------



## xtcriott

sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> That's great man.  After hearing all the high-end amplifiers and DAC combinations yesterday, I have a new found respect for the FUN.  Which of my phones did you like best or did you try your own?




I was the guy set up next to you, with the Apple iBook. I got a chance to hear your K701s, and that was a treat, as they were one of the top three cans I wanted to demo. I'm still torn between those, some Beyers and a couple others, but at least now I have an idea of how they sound, especially with that amp juicing them. I think I'm going to finish some DIY projects that I picked up from the meet yesterday, and by that time I will probably be able to pick up the FUN without my lady killing me 

If I do end up making the FUN purchase, you will probably see me posting in here a bit more with questions and whatnot. Thanks again dude.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> That's great man.  After hearing all the high-end amplifiers and DAC combinations yesterday, I have a new found respect for the FUN.  Which of my phones did you like best or did you try your own?


 


  sphinx, look what you unleashed in the HD650 appreciation thread. Lol. Anyway, care to elaborate on how the Fun held up against the other gear you heard? Were there any other Audio-GD gear at the meet?


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


olor1n said:


> *sphinx, look what you unleashed in the HD650 appreciation thread. Lol.* Anyway, care to elaborate on how the Fun held up against the other gear you heard? Were there any other Audio-GD gear at the meet?


 

 I know, haha.
   
  The only other Audio-GD equipment at the meet was an NFB-12 being used as a DAC for a Schitt Lyr & Woo Audio 6 SE.  I didn't have a chance to plug my 650s directly into the NFB-12 but it was quite nice as a standalone DAC, very affordable too at $237 shipped in the US.  I would expect a better DAC to have more resolution in details but the details resolved were just about the same as the FUN.  Not saying the NFB-12 is meant to be a better DAC, just saying that I didn't notice anything outright different with the dual Wolfson chips compared to the FUN's single.  That probably means nothing though as I'm just _assuming_ equal power, output stage, etc. 
   
  Right next to that setup was a Meier Concerto + Stagedac.  I wouldn't bother moving from the FUN to that chain.  I tried it with my K701s and HD650s and there wasn't much improvement to either can (with respect to their weaknesses).  The only other solid state kit I tried was[size=x-small] the über high-end RSA Apache.  I tried the other-worldly cans on that amp (Sony R10s & Qualias) as well as humble balanced HD600s (nice), but nothing special after the R10s.  I tried the same HD600s SE from the Apache and it wasn't much better than average.  For the record, the balanced cable on the HD600s was one of those boutique cables.  I'm not sure if the difference I heard had anything to do with going balanced or the boutique cable, or both.[/size]
   
  I found tube amps from Woo Audio to be the most impressive in comparison to the FUN.  The headstage was enormous on the WA6 SE and the WA22 was just on a different level.  Pick anything, the WA22 did it better.  I tried some other tube amps as well, including some cool DIY ones, but nothing on the level of the Woos.  I'm backtracking on a statement I made earlier, but I think the FUN reaches very far into the 650s potential, it does a lot of things right.


----------



## olor1n

Thanks for elaborating sphinx. Your findings just goes to show how much value there is in the Fun.
   
  I presume you'll be keeping the Fun as a dac? So which tube amp are you getting for the K701? Are you going all in for the WA22? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Also, did you hear the HD650 through a completely balanced setup from the dac to the cable?


----------



## sphinxvc

*@Olor1n*
   
  No, I'm not plunking down $2K for an amplifier, or $1.5K on the HD800s for that matter!  (Not to mention the $1K source to match.)  We're talking some **serious** diminishing returns here.  I'm okay with compromises, especially considering that the next best rig, to my ears, will cost about $4.5K.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Still trying to keep the headphone habit as close to $1K as possible.  I may have a chance to buy the WA6-SE I heard at the meet and any used WA6-SE is a steal.  Other amplifiers I'm considering are the WA6-non-SE and the Ming Da MC 84 C07..
   
  Once I have a tube-amp I will probably sell the FUN and get a NFB-12 as the FUN's modularity and excellent performance as a combined amp/DAC is a bit overkill for me.
   
  There were no fully balanced HD650 rigs at the meet.  = /


----------



## tama

Hi all,

 I am going to get the FUN for my first setup but Im not exactly sure about A/B and Moon/Earth etc.
 Im going to be using it with Swans MK200MKIII and K701/HD650 (leaning towards K701 as it will be cheaper to get to Australia)

 Postage to Australia is going to be $80 which is bit of a pain so I would prefer to be a bit on the conservative side  

 Cheers,
 Tama


----------



## ljperez84

@tama 

If you visualize the Fun as your Dac/amp for several years, as I do, go with version A. Otherwise you may regret later not having the neutrik jack, goldplated connectors, etc.

As for the opamp you should at least get both Moon and Earth. Earth is very neutral, Moon makes the sound warmer, but I supose that with certain cans, it would be like putting too much syrup on your wafles.

Also regarding the Spdif module, go with Dir9001, it has less jitter and is very neutral, if you want to tweak the sound you can do it later with the opamps.

My 2c


----------



## RTF

Is there a reason most go for Earth or Moon over the Sun?


----------



## bobxxxbob

Quote: 





rtf said:


> Is there a reason most go for Earth or Moon over the Sun?


 


  Depends on your headphones. I highly recommend Moon for AKG K-701.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


rtf said:


> Is there a reason most go for Earth or Moon over the Sun?


 

 They are still natural sounding.  Sun is not.  It's a nice thing to try, but too gimmicky to keep.


----------



## RTF

Thanks for the replies, I ask because I have a Pac Valve version of the Fun on order and I'm pretty sure they use the Sun opamp along with some other adjustments, now I'm considering changing my order to the stock version A unit.


----------



## fourwed

Tama, I had same question as you and finally I got version A. The parts are not going to be changeable and components are very important to sound good. At least, I have no regret of my choice. For Moon and Earth, I do say that it is safe to buy both, because of the high postage and low opamp price comparatively.


----------



## N0sferatu

Natural = boring

 Version A + SUN + D7000 = "FUN"


   
  RTF...I bought the Pacific Valve version you won't regret it.  It's great.  Someone like me loves Grados and Denon and that in your face fun sound.  If you're an AKG 701 type of guy who likes the analytic neutral profile then maybe you won't like this setup as I can't stand those cans.  Hope this helps.    I use my setup for modern rock, trance/techno, and classical music.


----------



## sphinxvc

^ 
   
  +1 on the Sun being fun.


----------



## RTF

Thanks for the reply Nosferatu, right now my main phones are HE-4s which I'm pretty happy with so I'm looking to match the amp with those. I think I tend more towards neutral on the phones and fun/lively on the amp so the Sun could be just the ticket.


----------



## olor1n

RTF, get all three hdams if you can. I had preconceived notions of my preferences as well, until I paired the HD650 with the Moon hdam. The differences are quiet distinct and you may find great synergy in unlikely configurations. I feel this ability to tailor the sound to your preference is the Fun's best feature.


----------



## FrankWong

Most Compass owners I know with experience owning multiple HDAMs had a lot of fun with SUN/MOON but goes back to the Earth ultimately. YMMV though with audio being such a subjective experience.


----------



## tama

thanka for the advice. One question, is spdif better the USB?
  
  Quote: 





ljperez84 said:


> @tama
> 
> If you visualize the Fun as your Dac/amp for several years, as I do, go with version A. Otherwise you may regret later not having the neutrik jack, goldplated connectors, etc.
> 
> ...


----------



## ljperez84

Quote: 





tama said:


> thanka for the advice. One question, is spdif better the USB?


 


  I would say it is but not by a huge margin, It's really hard to me to tell because I use the optical with my BR / CD player as transport and USB with foobar. Since my laptop does not have an optical output I can't do a real A/B comparison. 

 maybe olor1n or  sphinvxc can answer this better


----------



## afrobat

How's the noise floor on this? My headphones seem to be fairly sensitive and my current fiio e7/e9 is getting really annoying with the background noise.


----------



## sphinxvc

There's zero background noise.


----------



## fourwed

Mine is PC + FUN + Shure e4c and Sennheiser HD650, zero background noise too.
   
  My e4c is picky and there is lots of background noise when you plug it directly to most PC.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





ljperez84 said:


> I would say it is but not by a huge margin, It's really hard to me to tell because I use the optical with my BR / CD player as transport and USB with foobar. Since my laptop does not have an optical output I can't do a real A/B comparison.
> 
> maybe olor1n or  sphinvxc can answer this better


 

 I use optical out of my Macbook. I use it as it frees up a usb port and I don't have to worry about interference. Not sure I'd be able to distinguish a difference in sq though.
   
  And just to chime in on the background noise. Yes the Fun is dead silent. My MS-1i is low impedance with high sensitivity. On my RA-1 clone there's a hum that I don't notice with the HD650. Through the Fun at any level there is nothing. Black.


----------



## sling5s

Does anyone have a tube amp (woo audio or schiit or even mad ear) to compare with their audio gd fun with opa-moon.  Everyone says the moon is tube like.  
  I would really like to know how close it is in tube likeness. Can anyone compare their fun with moon with their tube amp?
   
  thanks


----------



## sphinxvc

^ The Moon is tube-like in the sense that it has warmth and a slight bloom to the midrange, but that's about it, it still sounds SS.


----------



## moodyrn

..


----------



## moodyrn

The moon isn't tube like. It is warm, but doesn't sound anything like a tube. don't like it when warmish ss components are described as tube like. I've never hear anything ss that sounds anything like any tube. Some people have been turned away from tubes after hearing ss gear described as tube like and hated once hearing it. And also keep in mind tubes doesn't always equate to warmness. Some cheaper tube gear can sound warm, but the warmness doesn't necessarily come from the tubes, but from cheap capacitors. Other times the warmness could come from the output transformer. I have listened to many, many tube amps that were more neutral than some of  the best solid state designs. But even the tube amps that does sound warm doesn't sound anything like the moon. The tube "warmness" can't be duplicated by any solid state component.  The moon sounds dark, colored, with added distortion. Some might describe it as musical, but IMO, it's anything but. I much prefer the sound of the earth. It's far more neutral and musical to my ears.


----------



## ljperez84

I really like how moon tames the highs on my grados on the songs that were too bright for them, nevertheless on the songs that were perfect with Earth and Grados combo, some nice roughness is lost with moon IMO.
   
   
  I will spend some time again with the earth now that I recieve my HD650s, so I can decide which goes better with them.


----------



## sphinxvc

I think I prefer low-gain with K701s as opposed to high with the 650s.


----------



## aroldan

Hi, I just received my FUN. I now have several questions as I haven't expecting what I got:

1. How can I get 24/96 output using USB under Linux?
2. My HP are the HD650 and the gain is really low even when I push out the Gain button. Is that supposed to be so?
3. I have several jumpers (20?) in the box. I read that you can adjust the sound flavor with the J6L,J6R,J7L,J7R jumpers but there is another jumper close to the front of the FUN that says "Emergency Mode". What does it do?

Thank you!


----------



## ljperez84

I can only answer question #2, yeah, even when the FUN is set to High Gain the HD650s need the pot volume to be at least somwehere arround 10 and 12 hours. I use it at 11 whereareas I use my grados at low gain slightly above 9.

 By the way, What opamp are you using them with? It has nothing to do, just want to know about your preferences


----------



## sphinxvc

I listened to my 650s on high gain at 9 o'clock, for 96khz-24-bit recordings I would turn it up to 10 o'clock.  They were quieter for some reason.


----------



## olor1n

High gain at 9 o'clock is quite loud for me as well. For high res recordings (96/24) I go as high as 10 o'clock. You guys need to ensure your system volume is set to 100%. Also, try rotating the 1/4" plug in the jack to make sure there isn't a contact issue.


----------



## aroldan

Indeed the gain problem was my fault  But I still can't get 24/96 :confused_face: Can someone using Linux post the content of the /proc/asound/card1/stream0 file using the FUN (Version A)? I just don't see 96000 anywhere . Here is mine:


aroldan@volatile:~$ cat /proc/asound/card1/stream0 
Tenor Electronics DigiHug USB Audio at usb-0000:00:1a.0-1.1, full speed : USB Audio

Playback:
 Status: Stop
 Interface 3
 Altset 1
 Format: S16_LE
 Channels: 2
 Endpoint: 3 OUT (ADAPTIVE)
 Rates: 44100, 48000
 Interface 3
 Altset 2
 Format: S24_3LE
 Channels: 2
 Endpoint: 3 OUT (ADAPTIVE)
 Rates: 44100, 48000

Capture:
 Status: Stop
 Interface 2
 Altset 1
 Format: S16_LE
 Channels: 2
 Endpoint: 2 IN (ADAPTIVE)
 Rates: 44100, 48000


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Which version FUN did you buy aroldan ? Version B (USB input) only supports 16/48  while version A's USB input can handle 24/96 .....
   
  Peete.


----------



## aroldan

Peete, I bought the stock A version. The only difference is the OPA on the DAC stage (LM49720HA) but I believe it has nothing to do :confused_face_2:


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





aroldan said:


> Peete, I bought the stock A version. The only difference is the OPA on the DAC stage (LM49720HA) but I believe it has nothing to do


 


  Version B has the older USB module limited to 16/48 (which is why I asked what version you have). I suggest emailing Edwin/Kingwa for some advice in the meantime. Hopefully folks familar with USB use will chime in with some suggestions while you communicate with A-gd.
   
  I don't use USB at all so my experience is limited to basic setup etc...
   
  You might want to post the USB issue in the computer gear forum and see if that brings about a fresh perspective for you or a possible solution.
   
  Peete.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Does anyone still have the gain modules and the FET Output modules when the FUN first came out? I am thinking of getting them just for the heck of trying out different sound topologies. If there's anyone who wants to let them go....I just got hold of the WM8805 DIR module and burning in. First impressions compared to the DIR9001 module seems to show the WM8805 have just slightly more air but tonality pretty much remains the same. The annoying thing though is that whenever I switch tacks, there's a loud pop. My FUN is the first model originally issued, and an upgrade WM8741 module has the wire extension to the DIR9001 module. THe WM8805 module doesn't need the extension but I noticed there is an extra capacitor across the pins on the chip compared to the picture.


----------



## aroldan

I just emailed Edwin and he kindly sent me another TE7022 module, great customer service!



pricklely peete said:


> Version B has the older USB module limited to 16/48 (which is why I asked what version you have). I suggest emailing Edwin/Kingwa for some advice in the meantime. Hopefully folks familar with USB use will chime in with some suggestions while you communicate with A-gd.
> 
> I don't use USB at all so my experience is limited to basic setup etc...
> 
> ...


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

I did a little mod to the FUN. On the DIR9001 module, I swapped the stock XO clock to a Tentlabs XO which was unused since I switched back to non-oversampling on the DI. The effect of this is a soundstage expanding dramatically. Listening through a HD650, it sounds like the sonic image is now very solidly in front of the head, with definite placing of instruments in the audio space. Its like moving several steps back in a concert hall presentation. There were times, when I felt as though I was not listening through a headphone but speakers instead.  Vocals have a definite presence, standing in front of the instrumental ensemble. Before this, there seems to be a slight smoothness to the sonics, characteristics which Kingwa described for the FUN.
   
  The sonics now seems to have enhanced clarity without any any hint of edginess at all and sound very sweet. I am not sure if this is a neutral sound but when compared to the DAC19/C2 combo, I can only describe the FUN is now sweeter and clearer with a soundstage that is comparable to the other set-up. Also, the opamp used is a ADA4627-1BRZ modules mounted on browndog adapters.
   
  There's a few other mods I like to try, notably Prickly Peete's mods that should increase the dynamics of the FUN. For now, the XO upgrade brings very obvious results.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


rhythmic_impulse said:


> I did a little mod to the FUN. On the DIR9001 module, I swapped the stock XO clock to a Tentlabs XO which was unused since I switched back to non-oversampling on the DI. The effect of this is a soundstage expanding dramatically. Listening through a HD650, it sounds like the sonic image is now very solidly in front of the head, with definite placing of instruments in the audio space. Its like moving several steps back in a concert hall presentation. There were times, when I felt as though I was not listening through a headphone but speakers instead.  Vocals have a definite presence, standing in front of the instrumental ensemble. Before this, there seems to be a slight smoothness to the sonics, characteristics which Kingwa described for the FUN.
> 
> The sonics now seems to have enhanced clarity without any any hint of edginess at all and sound very sweet. I am not sure if this is a neutral sound but when compared to the DAC19/C2 combo, I can only describe the FUN is now sweeter and clearer with a soundstage that is comparable to the other set-up. Also, the opamp used is a ADA4627-1BRZ modules mounted on browndog adapters.
> 
> There's a few other mods I like to try, notably Prickly Peete's mods that should increase the dynamics of the FUN. For now, the XO upgrade brings very obvious results.


 

 Very cool - wish I could hear it.


----------



## muad

Hey Rythmic,
   
  Ive been using my fun now for the longest time and am still absolutely in love with it. I haven't felt the need to upgrade once the wm8741 module came out and I plan to keep this thing forever. Anyways, I have a couple of the original fet modules lying around. PM me if you're interested.


----------



## RonO

Muad - same here, it's a workhouse.  My only mods since the 8741 are to put some ink in the volume knob so I can see it, and a couple O-rings on the volume knob that help with one finger volume adjustments.


----------



## olor1n

Yep, loving the Fun's versatility as my setup's evolved. It's a fine dac that feeds my active speakers and newly acquired Lyr. The Fun's amp section is great with the HD650 and although I enjoy the Lyr's coloured presentation more, the fact this beast of an amp hasn't shamed the Fun with the HD650 clearly illustrates how great the Fun is as a bang for buck option for dynamic cans. So glad the Fun is still a practical and vital component in my chain.
   
  Btw, I like how the lid isn't screwed in place in that pic. Typical Fun owner.


----------



## N0sferatu

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Btw, I like how the lid isn't screwed in place in that pic. Typical Fun owner.


 


  I"ve kept my FUN a virgin and haven't opened it yet... :/


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> I did a little mod to the FUN. On the DIR9001 module, I swapped the stock XO clock to a Tentlabs XO which was unused since I switched back to non-oversampling on the DI. The effect of this is a soundstage expanding dramatically. Listening through a HD650, it sounds like the sonic image is now very solidly in front of the head, with definite placing of instruments in the audio space. Its like moving several steps back in a concert hall presentation. There were times, when I felt as though I was not listening through a headphone but speakers instead.  Vocals have a definite presence, standing in front of the instrumental ensemble. Before this, there seems to be a slight smoothness to the sonics, characteristics which Kingwa described for the FUN.
> 
> The sonics now seems to have enhanced clarity without any any hint of edginess at all and sound very sweet. I am not sure if this is a neutral sound but when compared to the DAC19/C2 combo, I can only describe the FUN is now sweeter and clearer with a soundstage that is comparable to the other set-up. Also, the opamp used is a ADA4627-1BRZ modules mounted on browndog adapters.
> 
> There's a few other mods I like to try, notably Prickly Peete's mods that should increase the dynamics of the FUN. For now, the XO upgrade brings very obvious results.


 



 Do you mind to share how could you mod this? I was planning to upgrade the clock too but not sure how to get it done.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I really do need to get myself that updated Wolfson 8741 DAC module.......I've been procrastinating WRT it for some months now.
   
  Peete.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





fourwed said:


> Do you mind to share how could you mod this? I was planning to upgrade the clock too but not sure how to get it done.


 

  
  It's quite easy. I just removed the stock clock on the DIR9001 module and just solder in the Tentlabs Clock as replacement. Just be sure of the orientation of the clock. On my module I noticed Pin 1 was removed from the stock clock so I put in the Tentlabs without soldering Pin 1 to the PCB.


----------



## fourwed

I noticed that you are using the modded BNC input but I am using the USB input. Would you be kind enough to test your modded FUN by using the USB input? I would like to know if it still make a great improvement. Thanks.
  
  Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> It's quite easy. I just removed the stock clock on the DIR9001 module and just solder in the Tentlabs Clock as replacement. Just be sure of the orientation of the clock. On my module I noticed Pin 1 was removed from the stock clock so I put in the Tentlabs without soldering Pin 1 to the PCB.


----------



## N0sferatu

is there a way to wire in actual speakers into the line out of this amp/dac?  I have two spare speakers sitting around with no spare AV receiver to run them on.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





n0sferatu said:


> is there a way to wire in actual speakers into the line out of this amp/dac?  I have two spare speakers sitting around with no spare AV receiver to run them on.


 


  You need active speakers or a power amp and speaker cables (if the speakers are passive). The FUN has a preamp function which means it won't have enough output through it's line out (variable or fixed) to power a set of speakers on it's own. What speakers do you have ?
   
  Peete.


----------



## N0sferatu

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> You need active speakers or a power amp and speaker cables (if the speakers are passive). The FUN has a preamp function which means it won't have enough output through it's line out (variable or fixed) to power a set of speakers on it's own. What speakers do you have ?
> 
> Peete.


 

 The speakers are junk ones from probably 1995 or so I found in my closet while cleaning the other day.  I run the FUN on my desktop PC so other than headphones I have no speakers hooked up to the computer and figured why not put some speakers on here.
   
  Anyways, I just found them online here...like I said nothing special just was looking for some use out of them before I throw them out...
   
  http://www.pawnmart.com/?itemid=68719521024


----------



## olsenKC8YRG

Hi all,

 Long time reader, first time poster here.  So I have a problem with my FUN, it has a nice 60Hz hum.  Some background information, I purchased it back in November and It's been there since day one but I've been able to adjust volumes so that I can't hear it over louder music but more recently I've started to listen to more quieter music such as classical, so it's easy to hear the hum over the music.  I have done searches and I haven't found to much useful information.  When I bought the FUN, I had read the 50 some pages of this post but I didn't read anything like this.

 Now before you jump and say that it's a ground loop problem here's the testing I've done.  I have been talking with Prickly Peete, thanks again Peete,  and he suggested the Ebtech HumX to try for a ground loop.  So with the set up HumX -> Audio GD Filter -> Stock Power Cable -> FUN -> Headphones (Beyer DT 1350), there is still a hum.  The humX and filter show that it's not a ground loop, and for this set up, you can see there are no sources connected so it can't be caused through USB (which I use).  With the described set up, I can select all 3 sources, high/low gain and line in/out and the hum is present through the HP and pre-amp out, but not through the DAC, the DAC is silent.  For the DAC I matched volume levels of the HP and pre-amp, then compared.

 More info, when the FUN is cold and the volume at 0, the hum is barely audible.  I can increase the volume knob until 12 or so and the volume increases slightly while increasing the knob after 12, the hum increases much more.  Now when the FUN has warmed up, the hum is clearly audible at 0 volume, but still follows the same volume pattern and at full volume the hum is still the same volume as the FUN being cold.

 The question is, is it possible to trace the problem and find out what it is, and can I fix it without sending it back to China?  I had emailed Kingwa at the end of April, and he said it was a ground loop or I should send it back to checked.


 Thanks,
 Will


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Will, rather than using the Hum X  device with the A-gd LC/Filter's AC line, which powers your entire setup, isolate the amp/dac in your system and use Hum X only on the FUN's AC mains cable. That should kill the ground loop.
   
  Peete.


----------



## olsenKC8YRG

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> Will, rather than using the Hum X  device with the A-gd LC/Filter's AC line, which powers your entire setup, isolate the amp/dac in your system and use Hum X only on the FUN's AC mains cable. That should kill the ground loop.
> 
> Peete.


 


  I had thought about that and was planning to post about it.  With any combination that I can make with the HumX, filter and FUN, the hum is still there. 
   
  I also checked all the wiring connections I could and they all were still in their place.  Is there anything else within the FUN that could have been adjusted, moved or something during the shipping process?  I noticed two variable resistors towards the back, is there a one in a million chances that they were somehow slightly adjusted?
   
  Will


----------



## Bostonears

If hum is present with no source or external amp connected (the only connections are power cord and headphones) then it cannot possibly be a ground loop because there is no loop involved. To have a ground loop hum, you have to have at least two different grounds coming in. (Typically one would be through the AC cord and the other would be through an interconnect cable from another device.) With only one ground coming in, HumX isn't going to help. Also, ground loop hums are very unlikely to change as a product warms up.
   
  If the hum is only present in the headphone and preamp outputs but not the DAC output, then the problem is likely to be somewhere in the preamp/ACSS/volume control circuitry. Because the hum changes with the temperature of the unit, there's a chance you could isolate it to a specific component by the use of cold air spray (as from a compressed air can), directing the air around to individual parts until you find one that changes the hum when hit with the cold air. But unless you're a qualified electronic technician, knowing which component is bad won't do you much good.
   
  My suggestion is to send the unit back to get it diagnosed and repaired by the manufacturer.


----------



## olsenKC8YRG

Bostonears, I liked the suggestion to use compressed air, so I tried it out but that did not help find the component.  I also checked the continuity of the ground at various other grounds and the paths were clean with the idea, perhaps something isn't grounded well which is causing the hum.
   
  So it's looking like I might have to ship it back...
   
  Will


----------



## 2real

I guess I'll be joining the Audio-GD Fun Club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 too, soon enough.
  Mine is on it's way, been shipped yesterday.
   
  I would like to thank you guys for that much information across that thread. It's been a (long and) very helpful read, for sure.
   
  Now comes the hard part, waiting the month or so to get it by my door. EMS to Brazil is very slow, but I hope it's worth the wait.


----------



## N0sferatu

Welcome to the club!!!
  
  Quote: 





2real said:


> I guess I'll be joining the Audio-GD Fun Club
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## aston456

Good morning everybody,
   
  I´ve just recently joined the club with purchasing a used FUN.
  I´ve already started modding it since the most important changes are quite easy to realize.
  I´ve changed the Chip at the DAC to an LME49720NA, which really brought some advantage in the stage and details.
  Next step will be to change the built-in oscillator to an TentLabs XO which I´ve already ordered.
  Then I´ll probably swap the 100uF electrolytic Capacitors on the buffer stages and other locations to others.
  I´ve read that somebody already did that. What values were used? Since metal-film capacitors will be quite large with 100uF.
  I´m suspecting that one could use smaller values for that.
   
  One problem remains though and for solving it I need your help.
  Unfortunately I don´t know how to set the jumpers for the sound favor.
  I´ve already asked the guys at AGD but didn´t get an answer.
  There is nothing on their homepage and also nothing in the manual.
   
  So could anybody please tell me how to set them for the different configurations.
   
  Thank you!
   
  Cheers
  Kai


----------



## shamrock134

Anyone running a FUN + LCD-2?


----------



## sphinxvc

I think there's an Aussie headfier who runs a FUN > Burson HA160 > LCD2 rig.  You could probably PM him about the pairing.


----------



## RonO

Quote: 





aston456 said:


> Good morning everybody,
> 
> I´ve just recently joined the club with purchasing a used FUN.
> I´ve already started modding it since the most important changes are quite easy to realize.
> ...


 
  Kai,
   
  I used the jumper settings at one time.  From my memory no jumpers on applies no setting, then you put jumpers on j6r and j6r to get smallest change, then jumpers on both j7r j7l for second level of change, and jumpers on all 4 jumpers for most change.  The sound setting rolls off the highs, I found it useful for extremely bright headphones.  Early on with the AD1852 DAC, the DAC itself was bright, after switching to the WM8741 I stopped using the sound jumpers as the Dac was smoother.  In newer FUN's the 8741 is the default I think. In my case I pretty much use Earth on output stage, but once in a while pop in the Moon for a change.
   
  Ron


----------



## muad

+1
   
  no need for jumpers with the newer wm8471 module
  Quote: 





> I used the jumper settings at one time.  From my memory no jumpers on applies no setting, then you put jumpers on j6r and j6r to get smallest change, then jumpers on both j7r j7l for second level of change, and jumpers on all 4 jumpers for most change.  The sound setting rolls off the highs, I found it useful for extremely bright headphones.  Early on with the AD1852 DAC, the DAC itself was bright, after switching to the WM8741 I stopped using the sound jumpers as the Dac was smoother.  In newer FUN's the 8741 is the default I think. In my case I pretty much use Earth on output stage, but once in a while pop in the Moon for a change.


----------



## aston456

Quote: 





rono said:


> Early on with the AD1852 DAC, the DAC itself was bright, after switching to the WM8741 I stopped using the sound jumpers as the Dac was smoother.  In newer FUN's the 8741 is the default I think.


 
  Hello Ron,
   
  this seems to be exactly the problem. My unit has the 1852 as DAC. And it really is a little harsh in the high frequencies even after I´ve changed the setting of the jumpers.
  At least the bass is there which I was missing while just using the FUN as a preamp.
   
  I´ve already contacted Kingwa for the price of the WM8741 but he has not come back with a reply and to my knowledge there isn´t an option to just order the WM8741 Module over the AGD homepage.
   
  Do you by chance have an idea?
   
  Cheers
  Kai


----------



## RonO

Kai,
   
  I think they will sell the upgrade to you, they did for me and others on this thread.  I also later replaced/upgraded the USB interface on the FUN to the 96/24 version, which they also were happy to ship to me. The older FUN USB was limited, I think it was 44/16 only.  
   
  The wm8741 does require a solder to be done to complete the upgrade, one wire to one pin.  As long as you are okay with a minor solider job.  If I can't find a picture of that, I'll make one and post it later.
   
  Ron


----------



## aston456

Good morning Ron,
   
  that should be no problem but I would appreciate a picture or a more elaborate description of what to do.
  Kingwa has come back in the meantime so it looks like it will happen.
   
  Thanks!
   
  Cheers
  Kai


----------



## RonO

Kai,
   
  Post 728 in this thread had a photo that muad posted. Funny, a few posts before that I asked him to post it. Seems like forever ago.  Mine looks nearly identical.  I heated up the iron, and tinned the end of the wire on the new DAC module with a little soldier, so that as soon as i touched it to the pin on the DIR module it just melted into place. The tinned and hot wire was enough to make the joint.
   
  Ron


----------



## Bostonears

aston456 said:


> My unit has the 1852 as DAC. And it really is a little harsh in the high frequencies even after I´ve changed the setting of the jumpers.
> At least the bass is there which I was missing while just using the FUN as a preamp.
> 
> I´ve already contacted Kingwa for the price of the WM8741 but he has not come back with a reply and to my knowledge there isn´t an option to just order the WM8741 Module over the AGD homepage.


 
   
  You might also want to look into "rolling" the opamp chip. There are many opamps out there that have smoother treble than the stock OPA2134 .


----------



## sphinxvc

The FUN is 10% off right now and you get a free Earth.


----------



## muad

Does anyone know if there is an audible difference between the old usb module and the newer 96k usb module? I just want bitperfect @ 44k since all my music is cd quality
   
  thanks


----------



## RonO

Maud -
   
  I swapped out the older USB adapter for the newer 96/24 model, but only because the older one quit working.  The replacement works fine.  I cannot tell any difference. But I also cannot differentiate any of the digital inputs on the FUN when sourced from my PC. 
   
  Ron


----------



## kuwahshi

Does anyone know if the price is 10% off the listed $345?
   
  And do you think they install the Earth before sending?


----------



## aroldan

$345 is what I paid for it. the discount should be $345 minus its 10%


----------



## muad

Quote: 





> I swapped out the older USB adapter for the newer 96/24 model, but only because the older one quit working.  The replacement works fine.  I cannot tell any difference. But I also cannot differentiate any of the digital inputs on the FUN when sourced from my PC.


 
   
  Thanks  for the reply


----------



## brat

Two days ago I ordered my FUN.
  I hope it'll be not a dissapointment


----------



## shamrock134

I cancelled my Nuforce HDP and ordered a FUN instead during the 10% off + free Earth offer. I'm hoping it pairs well with the LCD-2 and was the right choice over the HDP!


----------



## brat

Has anyone tried the FUN with Shure SRH-840??
  I intend to couple the two for a mobile computer setup. I hope there will be sufficient quantity of bass (it's so important to me...)


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


shamrock134 said:


> I cancelled my Nuforce HDP and ordered a FUN instead during the 10% off + free Earth offer. I'm hoping it pairs well with the LCD-2 and was the right choice over the HDP!


 

 Good call.  The HDP would have underpowered the LCD2s.  You'll be getting at least 2-3 watts from the FUN.
   
  Quote: 





brat said:


> Has anyone tried the FUN with Shure SRH-840??
> I intend to couple the two for a mobile computer setup. I hope there will be sufficient quantity of bass (it's so important to me...)


 

 FUN isn't mobile at all.


----------



## brat

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> FUN isn't mobile at all.


 


  everything under 70kg is mobile for me


----------



## sphinxvc

Ah...ok, semantics then, "transportable" I'd say.  
   
  Either way, enjoy it.  I've no doubt you'll find the bass "sufficient" and then some.


----------



## 2real

Mine arrived today, after a loooong stay at the Brazilian Customs.
   
  Audio-gd should REALLY stick a manual inside the box. I lost a lot of time thinking my unit had a problem, until a realized how the line-in button worked.
  That solved, I am really Impressed with it.
  Listening to it totaly stock right now. Ordered it with the DIR 9001.
   
  Moon and Earth came with it too, one of them will be tested tomorrow.
  Out of the box it sounds great with the K-702's.
   
  Looks nice too, I'm already happy with it.


----------



## brat

Is it sealed or anybody can open the box without problems for the warranty?


----------



## muad

you can open it without losing your warranty


----------



## N0sferatu

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> I cancelled my Nuforce HDP and ordered a FUN instead during the 10% off + free Earth offer. I'm hoping it pairs well with the LCD-2 and was the right choice over the HDP!


 


  I've messed around with the LCD-2 in my FUN at a head-fi meet.  It's got enough to play them pretty loud and detailed.  Hope that helps.


----------



## olor1n

LCD-2 driven through the Fun isn't too shabby.


----------



## shamrock134

That's good news.
   
  My only reference at the moment is a GS Solo SRGII w/PSU1, which may or may not be driving them well. I mean, it certainly can blow my head off with volume but that doesn't necessarily mean anything?
   
  I've got the Earth op-amp coming with it, which is meant to be fairly neutral. I wonder, would it be worth getting a Sun (said to be "dynamic" sounding") to help with the LCD-2 Rev1's treble/darkness. You have a sun don't you n0s?


----------



## T-Willi

whats the price on the FUN?


----------



## brat

When using FUN as USB DAC: which player suits best to it?
  Currently I play my lossless files with foobar2000 because of it's simplicity but I can hear there the differences between WMP, winamp and foobar. I've never tried j.river.


----------



## shamrock134

Quote:


t-willi said:


> whats the price on the FUN?


 


  $345 not including shipping (as listed on the Audio-GD website)


----------



## T-Willi

Thanks man.
  I just couldnt find the price anywhere haha.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





brat said:


> When using FUN as USB DAC: which player suits best to it?
> Currently I play my lossless files with foobar2000 because of it's simplicity but I can hear there the differences between WMP, winamp and foobar. I've never tried j.river.


 


  I had to swap to the J River player when I made the jump from XP-Pro to Win7 Ultimate....when I made that O/S jump Foobar2000 did not have a WASAPI driver as of yet so I was forced to dump Foobar for J River MP 15.XX. I am unsure if Foobar has a Vista/Win7 WASAPI driver yet ...if that has changed there may be zero diff in SQ between the two sw players, then again there might be but I have no idea about that. I do know the Win7 audio section (and USB driver has improved with SP-1) is a major step up from Win XP (any flavor) which is good news.
   
  Peete.


----------



## muad

Foobar2000 has wasapi drivers for windows7 and it works incredibly well. It only works in exclusive mode however.
   
  @Brat - Use foobar2000 but install the wasapi component. Then go to preferences > playback > output and select WASAPI: USB as the device and set the output format to 24 bit. This will give you the highest quality playback possible from any PC player as it simply sends unmodified raw music data straight to the Fun without windows or anything else modifying it. The only thing is when your Foobar is open and playing you can't listen to any other sounds from anything else on your pc, also you wont be able to change the volume using the windows volume control. Foobar2000 has complete control of all music data being sent to the Fun, therefore you can still change the volume in foobar itself. It's a bit inconvenient but worth it to me, I like Foobar  and I think the setup I described above is the most commonly used setup on headfi for those with external dacs.
   
  BTW using WASAPI will work with JRiver media player also as Pete said and should theoretically sound identical. I don't think it does but then it may just be a placebo thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




    
  Quote: 





> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The same thing happens with J River MP Muad...exclusive mode locks everything else out. Glad to hear (pun intended ) FB2000 has a WASAPI driver now.....I'm too lazy to switch back to test both players 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I would imagine both running in exclusive mode should result in identical SQ performance (or at least that is what I'm telling myself today, see previous comment
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  Peete.


----------



## brat

Thanks for the responses. I installed the WASAPI component in foobar and ran it as output device. There was no obvious improvement over the Primary Sound Driver but I'll make some A/B tests later.
  And the windows volume control still works with the WASAPI (Sony Vaio + Windows Vista Home)


----------



## muad

If the volume control still works then Wasapi is not functioning properly. The signal should bypass windows and go straight to the USB to thedac. If the volume control still works then the sound is still passing through windows mixer.
   
  @Pete - For some reason I think I can hear a difference between other players with wasapi and foobar with Wasapi. I know theoretically they're supposed to sound identical! Foobar sounds more crisp to me. I'm not sure if it's just in my head, however Ive heard similar sentiments echoed throughout the forums. Even if it is just all in my head I can't switch from Foobar, I always switch right back!


----------



## aston456

Good morning everybody
  and thank you very much so far for the help with some mods of my FUN.
  Unfortunately the new DAC-section has not arrived yet but I still am optimistic that it will.
   
  One thing I am curious about is how is the sound altered through the jumpers? What parameters are changed with the different settings?
  I am asking this question since the sound of the FUN being used in pre-amp mode is still a little harsh to my ears even if I´ve set the jumpers to the "smoothest" position. Maybe there is a smoother way to alter the sound than just with those jumpers.
   
  Cheers
  Kai


----------



## muad

adding all the jumpers is supposed to roll off the highs, however I find the harshness from the old ad dac module was from the upper mids being emphasized. So it doesn't make that much of a difference in the harshness level. The dac module that you have coming will make the Fun perfect    You can also change the opamp, I found the opa moon to sound warmer and smoother. The fet output module (discontinued) made the sound very smooth but with a loss of definition. The wolfson dac with the earth opamp strikes a perfect balance between detail and musicality.
   
  Hope it arrives soon!


----------



## RonO

I'll second muad's comments.  The wolfson DAC with earth is excellent.  The moon is a nice alternative and enjoyable in it's own way.


----------



## muad

Hmm I took some advice on using the ada4627-1brz with the Fun and the HD650's. Well... it only works for the preamp out and I'm only using the discrete headphone amp of the Fun. The opamp is for dac output, does that mean that the dac output to the built in headphone amp doesn't use the opamp or does?
   
  So i guess my question is , which outputs will be affected by swapping opamps when using the built in dac?
   
  and which outputs will be affected when changing the output buffer module when using the built in dac?
   
  headphone amp? dac output? Preamp output?


----------



## Bostonears

muad said:


> Hmm I took some advice on using the ada4627-1brz with the Fun and the HD650's. Well... it only works for the preamp out and I'm only using the discrete headphone amp of the Fun. The opamp is for dac output, does that mean that the dac output to the built in headphone amp doesn't use the opamp or does?
> 
> So i guess my question is , which outputs will be affected by swapping opamps when using the built in dac?
> 
> ...


 

 As best as I can tell, with the Fun, when using any digital input through the DAC (optical, USB, or coax), all outputs (headphone, variable level preamp, or fixed level DAC) are through the opamp. The only time the opamp isn't in the path is when you're using the analog line inputs instead of the DAC, i.e. you depress the "Line In" button.
   
  Essentially, you're listening through the opamp any time you're listening to the DAC.
   
  (Don't know about the buffer module.)


----------



## muad

hmm I was afraid of that... I shot kingwa and email to get a definite response.
   
  Maybe i should tell you where this all coming from. I just picked up a new pair of HD650' s. Well to put it simply it showed me the flaws in the sound of the Audioengine a5 or so I thought. Problems with imaging in congested pieces and an upper mid emphasis. Just to try, I put the Opa moon back in and I also tried the LME48710 (supposedly very neutral) and found that the music from speakers was much less congested than previously ( i use arcade fire - ready to start to test for separation because it's such a mess of sound). I'm beginning to think that the opa earth has a upper mid/lower treble peak and is not actually neutral. I was enamoured with this initially because it gave the illusion of definition with certain instruments and it sounded very different than anything i had heard before. This was all near the beginning of my head-fi journey, before I actually had any idea of what music should sound like. I think the opa earth out of the Fun is colored... What do you guys think?
   
  With the to99 lme49710  and some volume levelling the stereo imaging on my audioengine a5's is much clearer. I think you're right about the opamp always being used with the dac. Since in metallica's enter sandman the kid repeating the creepy saying is perfectly imaged (another test piece i've always used). The only thing lost is the enhancing of the upper mids which didn't seem to work well for all of my music.


----------



## brat

HD650 are far from neutral. New HD650 are just terrible 
  Listen to the MUSIC, not the DETAILS.


----------



## muad

very useful... if my speakers didn't seriously sound like poo. It's not the details I'm after but for it not to sound wrong. I'm trying to make it sound like music!
  Quote: 





> HD650 are far from neutral. New HD650 are just terrible
> Listen to the MUSIC, not the DETAILS.


----------



## olor1n

bostonears said:


> muad said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm I took some advice on using the ada4627-1brz with the Fun and the HD650's. Well... it only works for the preamp out and I'm only using the discrete headphone amp of the Fun. The opamp is for dac output, does that mean that the dac output to the built in headphone amp doesn't use the opamp or does?
> ...




This is correct.

muad, I have the Audioengine A2 and fwiw it sounds terrible with the ada opamp in place. Imaging is a mess and it just seems more congested and less engaging than when the hdams are in place. I actually much preferred Moon's textured presentation through the A2 over the more etched and analytical Earth signature.

I hardly listen to these speakers anymore as a result, but I've left the ada opamp in place as it presents qualities of both Earth and Moon but with higher resolution and better balance. This resolve in the dac is a great match for the tube ambience and dynamic power of the Lyr.


----------



## muad

Hmm well I guess I'll have to figure something out, because I'm thinking so many people loving the earth/fun combo can't be wrong. I'll mess around with my setup and see if positioning helps... I had to move it a few weeks ago and Im thinking I didn't get it setup properly again.
   
  thanks


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





muad said:


> Hmm well I guess I'll have to figure something out, because *I'm thinking so many people loving the earth/fun combo can't be wrong.* I'll mess around with my setup and see if positioning helps... I had to move it a few weeks ago and Im thinking I didn't get it setup properly again.
> 
> thanks


 

 I discounted Moon for the longest time because of this but ended up greatly preferring it with the HD650 and the right cable. Trust your own ears dude. Do you perceive the HD650 as slow, veiled and boring? Head-Fi myth would have you believe that if going by what the masses regurgitate.


----------



## muad

I believed that until I bought a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





> Do you perceive the HD650 as slow, veiled and boring? Head-Fi myth would have you believe that if going by what the masses regurgitate.


----------



## shamrock134

Does the blue power LED flicker on anyone else's FUN?
   
  I'm sure it's nothing, but I just wonder if it could be indicative of a problem.


----------



## fourwed

My blue power LED does not flick at all.
   
  And I would like to share my new finding with my FUN & HD650. I do really tell you, POWER CORD make a grave difference. Even with a relatively low cost DIY power cord.
   
  I followed the DIY method in a local forum, using Pirelli 1.5mm power cable, MK plug and Schurter 4781 IEC plug, to make a power cord to replace the stock one. The sound is definitely different. It sounds much more clearer and the sound stage is larger. Bass is also much deeper. The cost of is only US$15. It is a very good upgrade to me.


----------



## shamrock134

I've emailed Audio-Gd just to be on the safe side. I mean it still sounds fine I guess, but if it's not supposedly to flicker that worries me.
   
  So you think it's worth replacing the power cable?


----------



## fourwed

Yes, I think it is worthy to upgrade the power cable. My colleague's power cable worth US$120 is even better than my DIY one for your information. I am thinking to buy it from him at half of the original price.


----------



## brat

Power is one of the main conditions for proper operation of audio gear, specially sources. I have a dedicated grid with a its own fuse for audio plus a power codnitioner (Furman Elite 16 PFI) and this improves the sound a lot. It gives better focus, better bass extension, better instrument separation, etc.


----------



## brat

Quote: 





			
				audio-gd said:
			
		

> in their site /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [size=10pt]...We burn in all gears for more than 100 hours and check several times before shipping, to make sure that our products have a good quality control.[/size]...


 
   
  Should I expect my FUN to be fully burned-in when comes?


----------



## olor1n

No. Expect change for the better after a few more hundred hours.


----------



## brat

I just hoped the above written by audio-gd may be true. Anyway, not a big problem. I'll do it.


----------



## sphinxvc

Lol.


----------



## haloxt

The furman power conditioner company also believes in burn-in, and also warmup. Their manuals say to leave on their power conditioners permanently for best performance.


----------



## olor1n

Lol.


----------



## brat

If I remember correctly they say the burn-in period is about two weeks. I use Furman Elite 16-PFi filter. It had a startling effect just out of the box but I never noticed further improvement.


----------



## brat

Mine just arrived  Maybe one of the last sold... after the release of NFB-5 I predict most consumers will want it 
*Just out of the box with Shure SRH-840:* It sounds a bit thinner than my modded Corda Prehead 1, Overall good sound quality, a slight peak in highs makes music to sound a bit metallic. A drop in mid/lower bass. But these are comparisons. Maybe my hearing is accustomed to the Corda. Anyway, I hope it'll get better after some burn-in. I don't want to be critical, these are just preliminary impressions! Overall I'm pleased!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





brat said:


> Mine just arrived  Maybe one of the last sold... after the release of NFB-5 I predict most consumers will want it
> *Just out of the box with Shure SRH-840:* It sounds a bit thinner than my modded Corda Prehead 1, Overall good sound quality, a slight peak in highs makes music to sound a bit metallic. A drop in mid/lower bass. But these are comparisons. Maybe my hearing is accustomed to the Corda. Anyway, I hope it'll get better after some burn-in. I don't want to be critical, these are just preliminary impressions! Overall I'm pleased!


 


  Once you hit the 350-400 hour range you'll be hearing the unit as it will sound 24/7 from that point onward. It takes a while for the unit to settle (much to the chagrin of those that don't believe in such things). At any rate a decent power cord does make a nice difference with A-gd gear FWIW. No need to spend big bucks, just solid good quality mains cable will suffice (DIY or not). I use a number of different types (some DIY some not) with the bottom line being...a mains cord upgrade does help with fidelity.
   
  Peete.


----------



## brat

I don't want ultimate SQ from the FUN. I don't even intend to use it with my Furman AC filter.
  It has about 12hrs burn-in and the highs already settled down. But what still misses me most is the low bass.  I hope there'll be a change in this aspect.


----------



## brat

Simple question: should I expect_ more low bas_ with the Earth OPA??
  I have it in a box 
  2nd simple question: Do you feel a change in FR with the gain switched on or it just increases the level?


----------



## sphinxvc

I had the NFB-11 in house for about two weeks--and I'm going to have to peg it slightly inferior to the FUN.  It's able to resolve just as much detail (or possibly more) than the FUN but it falls short in other categories.  While I've listened to the NFB-12 before, it's hard to make any conclusive judgements as my time with it was brief.  
   
  But based on my experience with the NFB-11 I would suspect (and take this with a grain of salt) that the NFB-11/12 is not on the same level as the FUN.  It may be in terms of details, but detail resolution isn't all there is to sound.  The FUN is the whole package in comparison.


----------



## 2real

Quote: 





brat said:


> Simple question: should I expect_ more low bas_ with the Earth OPA??
> I have it in a box
> 2nd simple question: Do you feel a change in FR with the gain switched on or it just increases the level?


 


  I only used the standard OPA for a couple of days, but compared to the "out of the box" Earth, it did get a little better in deep bass with the Earth. Really slightly, that is.
  But my HP's are bass light in first place (AKG 702), so i don't know how much would be improved on another, more bass heavy one. Maybe there is a more significant change.
  Where I did feel a more noticeable diference was in bass impact and control.
   
  For second question, yes, I do feel a diference (for better) when using the hi gain.
   
  Having my FUN for a couple of weeks now, I'm very satisfied with it. 
  I have also a hybrid little amp that is more mellow/warm in the midrange (great for classical guitar and other acoustic stuff), so the clean, more natural sound of the FUN gives me a different option to suit all my music nicely.
   
  Im usind the Earth OPA for now. Have given the Moon a shot for some days, but found it a little fatiguing.
  Will be back to moon now that the fun has some good hours in it to see if there is any change.


----------



## olor1n

The first real impressions of the smaller Audio-GD units against the Fun. Good work sphinx.
   
  What's your rig at the moment?


----------



## brat

@olor1n: how LCD-2 combine with FUN?
  I think about a pair of LCD-2s...


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


olor1n said:


> The first real impressions of the smaller Audio-GD units against the Fun. Good work sphinx.
> 
> What's your rig at the moment?


 

 Well I sold off the NFB-11 and HD600s this week--next on my plate will be one of the thousand dollar planars when the time comes.  From all I've read it will be the HE-6 but I will need to have a nice, long audition before I'm fully convinced.  
   
  I've just bought some BA IEMs to keep me busy in the meantime.


----------



## shamrock134

What do people think of the FUN as a dedicated DAC compared to the STX DAC? I think olor1n said it was quite flat/boring sounding lol.
   
  I've got a Lyr on the way and will probably use it with the FUN unless the STX would be better.
   
  As for the FUN with the LCD-2, it does an alright job I guess, but it doesn't blow me away. I'm hoping the Lyr will be a big improvement over the FUN.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> What do people think of the FUN as a dedicated DAC compared to the STX DAC? *I think olor1n said it was quite flat*/boring *sounding* lol.
> 
> I've got a Lyr on the way and will probably use it with the FUN unless the STX would be better.
> 
> As for the FUN with the LCD-2, it does an alright job I guess, but it doesn't blow me away. I'm hoping the Lyr will be a big improvement over the FUN.


 

 With Earth. I never said it was boring. I think the Fun is a fine dac. Good recordings sound great. I'm listening to this at the moment and the fidelity is incredible. Everything is present, but there's still a very natural and analogue quality. I think I'm hearing what the LCD-2 is capable of for the first time.
   

   
*Tracklist*
 ---------
 1. Tears Of Joy - Antonio Forcione
 2. In Your Wild Garden - Josefine Cronholm
 3. Hedonism (Just Because You Feel Good) - Skunk Anansie
 4. Set Them Free - Caecillie Norby
 5. Take Five - Dave Brubeck Quartet
 6. Train Song - Holly Cole
 7. The Gates of Istanbul - Loreena McKennitt
 8. Breaking Silence - Janis Ian
 9. Fever - Elvis Presley
 10. Spanish Harlem - The Willy DeVille Acoustic Trio
 11. Angel - Sabia
 12. Samb-Adagio - Safri Duo
 13. I Will Remember - Toto
 14. Heart - Bo Stief Dream Machine
 15. You and I (Trentemoller remix) - Filur feat. Pernille Rosendahl


----------



## shamrock134

Okay, maybe I misunderstood flat to mean boring instead of flat=neutral. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  My set up will be like yours I guess except I'll have the stock GE 6BZ7 tubes and earth op-amp.
   
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> With Earth. I never said it was boring.


----------



## olor1n

I was referring to the artificial hollowness of the soundstage when I stated it sounded flat. To me, it also lacks the dynamics of even the Moon hdam. It's just too polite and lacks body.
   
  Without the ada4627-1brz and the Amperex tubes, I suspect your setup will sound very distinct from mine (I also have the rev.2).


----------



## brat

Compared to my Cary 306 SACD (as a DAC) and my Pioneer PD-9300 (CDP with 2xPCM58) the FUN sounds thin, harsh, 2D and lacks dynamics. We should't expect ultimate presentation from $345 DAC+AMP combo. It's a bargain for these money 
_It's just for FUN, not for sophisticated audiophile experiences. _


----------



## brat

I have  the Earth OPA. Should I solder something if I want to install it? I'm not a DIY-er at all.


----------



## sphinxvc

No soldering required, it's a very simple drop-in procedure, there are even pictures and instructions somewhere in this thread.


----------



## muad

Which version of the Fun did you get? New? Old? A? B?


----------



## shamrock134

It was easy to put the Earth in, but removing the original op-amp was rageface inducing without the right tools. Tweezers just about did the job.


----------



## brat

Quote: 





muad said:


> Which version of the Fun did you get? New? Old? A? B?


 


  It was shipped on 7.19.2011 so I think it's the newest possible. And "A" maybe. Nothing was mentioned about "A" or "B" in the offer, "A" is by default. 
  I'll be glad to explain me what's de difference between the old and the new version.


----------



## 2real

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> It was easy to put the Earth in, but removing the original op-amp was rageface inducing without the right tools. Tweezers just about did the job.


 


  Mine came out very easily with a sharp nose plier.


----------



## muad

the new one and version B doesn't have the wm8741 by default... and it sounded like you were describing the old ad dac chip, but even the old dac chip had good dynamics and was very 3D. How many hours do you have on the unit? Also are you using as a dac/amp combo? or just dac? or just amp?
   
  Plus you need to get that opamp out of there. It is seriously a place holder for one of the audio-gd opa's.... and the opas are discrete so they need burn in also.


----------



## brat

Quote: 





muad said:


> the new one and version B doesn't have the wm8741 by default...


 

 hmmm...... now I see the what was written in the offer in my e-mail box: "FUN Version A (WM8805)". But this is the S/PDIF interface.
What is the DAC chip then?? It their site audio-gd still mention wm8741 as DAC.


----------



## 2real

I think there really isn't a "B Version" anymore.


----------



## brat

................


----------



## 2real

The DAC chip is really the wm8741, unless you asked for a different one.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


olor1n said:


>


 
   
  Nice CD, thanks for sharing.


----------



## brat

Unfortunately the FUN + Shure SRH-840 combo is a disaster 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 A terrible peak in the upper mids is combined with a drop in the bass and the result is an unnatural thin and squeaky sound. If I turn the volume up more than 10 o'clock it becomes unlistenable. Terrible combination... sorry to say that. I doubt any further burn-in will change this. I think any of the two components are not that bad but have their own pecularities, which are superimposed one over another.


----------



## sphinxvc

That's unfortunate.  You could try rolling some op-amps to see if that alleviates the issue.  Actually, do you have any other headphones handy to rule out a faulty unit?


----------



## brat

I doubt it's an amp's malfunction.
  I'll try the Earth OPA... If I can install it properly


----------



## brat

well, the Earth solved the problems with bass and mids almost completely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This OPA2134 must be an absolute crap.
  Now the FR is more flat except a new emphasis in highs but I know the 840s are supposed to have a problem in this area according to the graphs.


----------



## haloxt

The opa2134 is bad, but compared to similarly priced opamps it is good.It was put in the FUN just as a placeholder for better opamps.


----------



## brat

Should I expect a considerable burn-in effect in a discrete op-amp?


----------



## haloxt

The FUN should be close to full burn-in after ~300 hours. I'd just leave it continuously on 2 weeks, then you will not have to hear the burn-in rollercoaster some people think audio-gd gear go through. And imo, after 300 hours, audio-gd gear sound really good, so you should get there ASAP even if you don't believe in burn-in .


----------



## brat

and what should I expect from this burn-in?
  I do believe in burn-in but 300 hrs sounds a bit esoteric to me. Even my k701s reached their peak after 100-200 hrs (they have more than 1000 now) and I talk about drivers, not electronic parts.
   
  -----------------------------------------
   
*Anyone to suggest good op-amps for the FUN??*


----------



## sphinxvc

I really don't understand the point of a loaded question.  Isn't it easier to write the question down on a piece of paper, and then come back later and answer it?  
   
  Anyway, check out ADA4627-1B, and the rest of the Audio-GD ones.  There is a massive op-amp thread in the DIY forum.


----------



## haloxt

brat, many people have noticed audio-gd gear go on a rollercoaster burn-in, changing in different ways. Hard to believe, but that's what some people have subjectively experienced, but that doesn't mean I'm 100% certain it happens, or that you would certainly experience the same. After 300 hours you should notice it is close to completely settled, with no more rollercoaster changes to the sound. Or if you want to see if there is or is not a rollercoaster burn-in yourself, go ahead and listen to it without burn-in.


----------



## brat

my friend gave me 10-15 op-amps and now I'm rolling them. I'm new in this op-amp game. It's fun 
  I like AD826AN, LT1469 and LME 49720HA much than Earth OPA which is a bit flat for me.
  Any suggestions for analog-sounding OPA with rolled-off highs? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Anyway, after about 50-70 hours burn-in the FUN still sounds too digital. It's thin and has problematic sharp highs.
  I hope some more burn-in will help


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





brat said:


> my friend gave me 10-15 op-amps and now I'm rolling them. I'm new in this op-amp game. It's fun
> I like AD826AN, LT1469 and LME 49720HA much than Earth OPA which is a bit flat for me.
> *Any suggestions for analog-sounding OPA with rolled-off highs?*
> 
> ...


 
   
  Burr Brown OPA 627's fit that description perfectly...just be careful of "BP" version fakes. Most 627's sold these days are "AU" (on an adapter) whereas the "BP" version (is DIP 8 on a brown-dog adapter). Another decent HQ fav is the LT 1364 and LT 1028.
   
  Peete.


----------



## aston456

Hey guys,
   
  a questin in regard to replacing the DAC module with the WM 8741. We´ve touched this matter some pages before and there is suppose to be a wire soldered from the DAC module (pin3) to the Clock module (pin1).
  With that said, the DAC module I´ve received recently looks different from the one posted on page 74 of this thread.
  So is the wire still necessary or not?
   

   
  Cheers
  Kai


----------



## tama

So im finally going to be ordering the FUN. I know i want to get the earth and the moon but im not sure about the other options
   
  Im going to using it with Swans M200 MKIII and HIFIMAN HE300 with PC (mp3 & FLAC) and old turntable
   
  Your help would be much appreciated


----------



## aston456

Hey you guys,
   
  no answer sometimes is an answer.
  Since the labeling on the DAC module complies somehow with the board, I´ve figured it might work without the bridge between the modules and it does.
  I´ve changed the oscillator to a Tentlabs too.
  Result:
  I´m quite happy now.
  The sound is much smoother and very pleasant to listen to. I´m not using it as a head-phone amp but as a DAC and pre in a "normal" setting with active loudspeakers.
  I will soon test the FUN against a Benchmark, but I´m quite sure already that it will stand up to it, if not beat it.
   
  Cheers
  Kai


----------



## olor1n

I take back all the negative things I've stated about Earth in this and other threads. Since acquiring the LCD-2 my preference has reverted back to a more transparent, less coloured presentation. Claims made before about its lack of dynamics and flat imaging were a tad hyperbolic. Earth may not be as dynamic or dense as Moon or ada4627-1brz for low level listening (around 73dBA), but turn the dial up a notch (still at moderate to low levels), and it becomes a lot livelier. Soundstage and imaging at this level is less flat and is actually more natural and coherent than the alternatives I have on hand. The thing I miss is the weight of instruments and slight exaggeration on the width of soundstage the ada4627-1brz presents. I've used that opamp for some time now, and while its emphasis on microdetails and more forward presentation is immediately rewarding, the slight grain or etch in the upper regions, as well as perceptible distortion at the edges, is tiresome and ultimately too much of a compromise.
   
  These findings are when the Fun is employed purely as a (very good) dac. My previous claims of the Earth's lack of texture and a presentation that's too polite may still be apparent through the Fun's amp section. However, I believe the Lyr counteracts those "deficiencies", and adds some weight and dimensionality to Earth's signature. Having said that, add me to the numbers of those who've had affairs with other configurations, but has since come full circle.


----------



## muad

LOL, I know what it's like! I've pretty much bought every module for the fun except for the old gain modules and the input modules. The best thing to ever happen to the fun was the opa earth and the wm8741


----------



## brat

I've tried AD826AN, OP627, LME49720HA, LM6172IN, OPA2134, LT1364, LT1469, LME49860 and the Earth in my FUN and I find LME49860 most suitable to the sound of this DAC/AMP. I listen with SRH-840, k701 and ATH-A700 and all of them like this op-amp most. Linear FR, natural highs, superb bass impact, good soundstage. Far more suitable for my current headphones than the flat and bass-less Earth  Try it


----------



## olor1n

Any idea as to where I may obtain this opamp? Is an adapter required?
   
  Edit: Is *this* the same opamp? It's listed as LME49860NA.


----------



## brat

olor1n said:


> Any idea as to where I may obtain this opamp? Is an adapter required?
> 
> Edit: Is *this* the same opamp? It's listed as LME49860NA.



Yes, mine is LME49860NA too. My mistake.


----------



## olor1n

Cool, I'll check it out. Thanks.


----------



## olor1n

Anyone tried the AD797 in the Fun? I keep coming across this as some sort of pinnacle opamp, but apparent highly unstable in unsuitable topologies (derp). This thing ain't cheap either.


----------



## muad

Quote: 





> SRH-840, k701 and ATH-A700 and all of them like this op-amp most. Linear FR, natural highs, superb bass impact, good soundstage. Far more suitable for my current headphones than the flat and bass-less Earth
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The opa earth isn't what I'd call "bass-less", pretty much all three of your headphones are however.... which means that the LME49860NA will probably add lower mids and lows. olor1n, that would make your hd650 sound waaaay to bassy and maybe too warm, but it may sound good with your lcd-2's (if they didn't deliver enough bass for you already)


----------



## olor1n

Yeah I wouldn't say Earth is bass light either, but I do find instruments lack some weight and impact compared to the ada4627-1brz. It did occur to me that his cans may require a boost in the lower regions, but the LME is cheap and I'm curious to see if I can find some more magic with it and the right tube combination in the Lyr.
   
  And yes, the LCD-2 delivers adequate bass. Lol.


----------



## olor1n

Finally received the lme49860na. I'm using the Fun purely as a dac into the Lyr. I like this opamp. It's very similar to the ada 4627-1brz in that it presents instruments with more weight than the Audio-GD hdams, but it somewhat lacks the bottom end extension of that opamp. However, it does seem more balanced across the spectrum as a result. I don't think it's quite as resolving but the high end is smoother, and there's a nice sense of space and air, particularly around the more forward vocals. Soundstage isn't as wide and imaging isn't as exaggerated, though the overall presentation seems more coherent. I wish I'd tried the lme49860na sooner.


----------



## Sysagent

Hi there "Fun" People!
   
  Just wondering if anyone has hooked up the Fun to a pair of Beyer Dynamic DT-1350's and if so what's the verdict please?
   
  I am thinking of upgrading from my HiFiMan EF2A & FiiO E7 combo to one of these units but I would like some opinions first if possible please.
   
  (reason I am upgrading is that the EF2A gain is a nightmare and it has to go)
   
  Also looking on the Audio-GD site there is only A variant available nowadays, I will be using it USB so the SPDIF modules aren't a concern, but I am curious about the differing Opamp modules and would like to know which would suit the 1350's the best, I listen to a wide variety of high quality recordings from Diana Krall, to Depeche Mode, to Kate Bush, quite a diverse taste I know, but I love to hear a well engineered / produced album.
   
  Many thanks in advance of any replies,
   
  Sys


----------



## olsenKC8YRG

Hey Sysagent,
   
  I will actually be able to give you my impressions in 2-3 weeks or so.  I had that combo only for about 2 weeks or so a while back before I sent it back for repair, I had a hum that wasn't as simple as a ground loop.  I'm getting it back with the three OPA's as well.
   
  Now I will say I am pretty darn new in comparing audio equipment but I can give you my thoughts when things arrive.  Right now, I listening to my DT 1350 through my computer port and in comparison to the FUN, based on my memory, the FUN has much more support in the bass.  And if read through the forum, you'll read that the FUN is a warmer sound.
   
  Will
   
  EDIT: While I had the combo, I very much like the pair.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Yeah I wouldn't say Earth is bass light either, but I do find instruments lack some weight and impact compared to the ada4627-1brz. It did occur to me that his cans may require a boost in the lower regions, but the LME is cheap and I'm curious to see if I can find some more magic with it and the right tube combination in the Lyr.
> 
> And yes, the LCD-2 delivers adequate bass. Lol.


 


  Try the cap mod on the Earth module ( 1uf PIO of 60V rating or greater across the HDAM's + - PS pins in parallel). That little mod helps deliver what you describe as lacking in the Earth module. I use K42 series PIOs for this job and it's a perfect match. It works equally well on the other 2 module flavors but I find for the A-gd gear (using A-gd HDAMs) the cap modded Earth gives me the most natural presentation of the 3. Of course that's just preference on my part.
   
  The K42's are cheap but work very well.
   
  Peete.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> Try the cap mod on the Earth module ( 1uf PIO of 60V rating or greater across the HDAM's + - PS pins in parallel). That little mod helps deliver what you describe as lacking in the Earth module. I use K42 series PIOs for this job and it's a perfect match. It works equally well on the other 2 module flavors but I find for the A-gd gear (using A-gd HDAMs) the cap modded Earth gives me the most natural presentation of the 3. Of course that's just preference on my part.
> 
> The K42's are cheap but work very well.
> 
> Peete.


 

 Peete,
   
  I did the mod as you suggested with the Earth module with the K42 PIO. Just been burning in for the past 10 hours. Early impressions shows a deeper soundstage and a bit airier in the highs. Details are much clearer than before. I had the ground wire attached in the FUN. This seems to affect an almost pinched quality to the overall sonic picture and the bass seems recessed. Leaving the ground wire unattached seems to produced more natural sonics and the bass more apparent. In both configurations, voices seems to be more forward. Did you have the ground wire attached in the FUN?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> Peete,
> 
> I did the mod as you suggested with the Earth module with the K42 PIO. Just been burning in for the past 10 hours. Early impressions shows a deeper soundstage and a bit airier in the highs. Details are much clearer than before. I had the ground wire attached in the FUN. This seems to affect an almost pinched quality to the overall sonic picture and the bass seems recessed. Leaving the ground wire unattached seems to produced more natural sonics and the bass more apparent. In both configurations, voices seems to be more forward. Did you have the ground wire attached in the FUN?


 

 Yep I left the GND wire attached. The only drawback to the K42 is the long burn in time....you'll hear some rather odd things (slight in effect for the most part) until it settles. Be patient during this process as the end result is well worth the wait.
   
  Peete.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> Yep I left the GND wire attached. The only drawback to the K42 is the long burn in time....you'll hear some rather odd things (slight in effect for the most part) until it settles. Be patient during this process as the end result is well worth the wait.
> 
> Peete.


 


  Yes, Peete, I decided to leave the GND wire attached. No doubt the K42 will take a long time to burn in but I can already hear the sound opening up. With the GND wire attached, I no longer hear the pinched quality that was there earlier. THe sund has opened up and the bass is now back, tighter too. One thing I noticed is how low is the noise floor now. Ambient details is clearer.
   
  One thing I noticed is that with the GND wire unattached, the soundstage is HUGE, but there seems to be a 2D quality to the aural image. With the GND attached, the aural presentation have a more 3D feel, with depth, but still huge. Nice....Guess patience is the key here while waiting for the K42 to burn in. Thanks for the tips! This is like the topping on the previous mods you've suggested for the FUN, all of which are beneficial.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

This is rather odd. The BA Mod I did with the Earth Module with the K42 on the FUN started sounding rather odd. There is distinct loss of air and sparkle in the treble. Sounds very dull. Its been almost 250 hours burning in. Is this normal for such a drastic change in the sonics? Reminds me of those times when first burning n the Earth HDAM and the FUN, but certainly didn't expect the K42 cap to display such change in sonics.  I'm beginning to  wonder if the K42 cap itself is a dud.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> This is rather odd. The BA Mod I did with the Earth Module with the K42 on the FUN started sounding rather odd. There is distinct loss of air and sparkle in the treble. Sounds very dull. Its been almost 250 hours burning in. Is this normal for such a drastic change in the sonics? Reminds me of those times when first burning n the Earth HDAM and the FUN, but certainly didn't expect the K42 cap to display such change in sonics.  I'm beginning to  wonder if the K42 cap itself is a dud.


 


  Totally normal...this is the last stage of burn in...the treble takes a hike for 40 hours or so...not to worry it'll come back.
   
  Peete.


----------



## brat

I've found the perfect match for my FUN - Sennheiser HD518. Staggering synergy! Perfect fast, controlled and impactful bass, saturated mids, good highs. I wish a bit wider headstage but my music doesn't require much of this feature.
  I'm amazed by these cans. Fast and cotrolled sound, nothing common with the old slow, muddy and boomy sennheisers. Try them.


----------



## rhythmic_impulse

I think the BA Mod with the Earth HDAM has finally settled after almost 3 weeks of burn-in. The sparkle and treble have return after disappearing for about a couple of days. The modded Earth in the FUN seems a totally different beast now. No longer does it sound clinical with a touch of fizziness in the treble. It now sounded natural, quite airy and good separations and depth of soundstage. One thing that really impresses me about this mod is how it affects the dynamics swing of a piece of music. Quite a difference between soft and loud passages. Love the way it sounded in orchestral music, with strings sounding as they should and proper delineation of the woodwinds, bass, cellos. Drums have a snap of attck that is quite punchy. At the moment, I'm enjoying the BA modded Earth far better than with the ADA4527-1BRZ. The Moon has been modded as well and will be next to burn-in. First impressions are really liquid mids and solid bass with clear trebles.


----------



## brat

Does anyone use the FUN with LCD-2? I'm thinking about buying audezes...


----------



## bar1

Did output impedance measurements on my Fun today. With a load of 47 ohm I measured output impedance to ~ 5.75 ohm. I wonder how Audio-gd has come up with the specified 1.5 ohm number.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





rhythmic_impulse said:


> I think the BA Mod with the Earth HDAM has finally settled after almost 3 weeks of burn-in. The sparkle and treble have return after disappearing for about a couple of days. The modded Earth in the FUN seems a totally different beast now. No longer does it sound clinical with a touch of fizziness in the treble. It now sounded natural, quite airy and good separations and depth of soundstage. One thing that really impresses me about this mod is how it affects the dynamics swing of a piece of music. Quite a difference between soft and loud passages. Love the way it sounded in orchestral music, with strings sounding as they should and proper delineation of the woodwinds, bass, cellos. Drums have a snap of attck that is quite punchy. At the moment, I'm enjoying the BA modded Earth far better than with the ADA4527-1BRZ. The Moon has been modded as well and will be next to burn-in. First impressions are really liquid mids and solid bass with clear trebles.


 


  What you describe is exactly how I would attempt to explain the differences, well done rhythmic_impulse ! The BA cap mod works equally well on the Moon OPA but I will let you discover these changes rather than preface them here. It's all a part of the FUN (pun intended).
   
  It's funny though, loads of folks have resisted doing these mods because they cannot fathom how such a simple tweak could be so beneficial....those that try it find out as you did that there is something to it and it transforms the HDAMs from good to great. I always seem to end up with the cap modded Earth module in the gear that can use one and then forget all about swapping these things out.
   
  I haven't (personally) bothered cap modding a SUN module yet (others have and had good results) since I really don't like OPA's with boosted lows and highs ( a "U" curve so to speak). My preference is to try and remain as faithful to the original track as possible (even if the HDAMs are not exactly true representations of neutral in the classical sense).
   
  Peete.


----------



## N0sferatu

Quote: 





brat said:


> Does anyone use the FUN with LCD-2? I'm thinking about buying audezes...


 


  I plugged a set of LCD-2's into my FUN at a head-fi meet.  They ran fine and that's using the sun opamp.


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> Try the cap mod on the Earth module ( 1uf PIO of 60V rating or greater across the HDAM's + - PS pins in parallel). That little mod helps deliver what you describe as lacking in the Earth module. I use K42 series PIOs for this job and it's a perfect match. It works equally well on the other 2 module flavors but I find for the A-gd gear (using A-gd HDAMs) the cap modded Earth gives me the most natural presentation of the 3. Of course that's just preference on my part.
> 
> The K42's are cheap but work very well.
> 
> Peete.


 
   
  Hi Peete,
   
  I really want to try the cap mod that you mentioned but I am not sure what to do.
   
  Is the K42 PIO refers to the Russian K42-Y2? You said the voltage can be greater, how about uf? must it be 1uf?
   
  And I am not sure what is the HDAM/s + - PS ? Can you show me?
   

   
  Thanks!!


----------



## Mad Max

Quote: 





fourwed said:


> Hi Peete,
> 
> I really want to try the cap mod that you mentioned but I am not sure what to do.
> 
> ...


 

 There are numbers on the underside of the HDAM right next to the pins to help, you can't miss them.
   
   





   
  There are a couple of solder pads right next to and in line with each power pin.  The other solder pad that each stock Evox Rifa film cap is connected to leads to the white ground wire.


----------



## mikael83

I'm kind of noob when it comes to opas so I need some advices. I ordered  this Dual Opamp Adaptor little too hastily without knowing what kind of AD797BRZ I should order for it.
   
  So I found this single AD797BRZ from ebay and I would need to buy 2 of those for the adaptor, right? Then there is this dual AD797BRZ that do not need any adapter, as it already has one. So should I get 2 single opas for the adapter, or the pre-built dual.  Is there there any differences with those two AD797BRZs in sound quality? Lastly I do not have any extra power source for my Audio-gd FUN and I read somewhere that opas get better with extra power, so can I drive dual AD797BRZ fine without the extra power source?


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





mikael83 said:


> I'm kind of noob when it comes to opas so I need some advices. I ordered  this Dual Opamp Adaptor little too hastily without knowing what kind of AD797BRZ I should order for it.
> 
> So I found this single AD797BRZ from ebay and I would need to buy 2 of those for the adaptor, right? Then there is this dual AD797BRZ that do not need any adapter, as it already has one. So should I get 2 single opas for the adapter, or the pre-built dual.  Is there there any differences with those two AD797BRZs in sound quality? Lastly I do not have any extra power source for my Audio-gd FUN and I read somewhere that opas get better with extra power, so can I drive dual AD797BRZ fine without the extra power source?


 
   
  If you need AD797B, it does not have PDIP version and so your Dual Opamp adapter is useless. Just go for the pre-soldered dual AD797BRZ. There should be no large difference between the pre-soldered and the DIY one, although some will think the quality of solder and adapter might affect the sound.
   
  Personally, I don't think you need an extra power source for the opamp. I know with a better power source, the opamp should sound better. But if you really do this, you might then need to consider to give an extra power source to the clock and the upgrade list becomes endless........


----------



## fourwed

Quote: 





mad max said:


> There are numbers on the underside of the HDAM right next to the pins to help, you can't miss them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Is the K42 PIO refers to the Russian K42-Y2? What about the capacitance (uf)? If I could not find it, is there any suggested alternative?
   
  Then I should connect the CAP to pin 4 and pin 8, then remove the stock MKT, right??


----------



## Mad Max

I think it's the Russian K42-Y2 indeed.  My OPA Sun has a ceramic capacitor, metallized polypropylene film capacitor, and a 10uF tantalum capacitor for bypass.  The tantalum made the biggest change, I suppose that the film cap didn't as much because it's such a small value, lol.  But then those metallized polypropylene film caps quickly become very large (physical dimensions) and expensive if I want larger values.  For the PIO cap, I would go with some value between 2uF and 10uF, I suppose.  That's what I've seen recommended for film bypass caps.  You should also add a 0.1uF ceramic capacitor (C0G/NP0 type).  You can get those from fleabay, Digikey, Mouser, etc.
  If you decide to try the tantalum capacitor, beware that it is polar and you need to connect the negative end to pin 4 and the positive to pin 8, otherwise you may damage your equipment.  The capacitor will be labeled to help you.


----------



## fourwed

Thanks Mad Max. I will give it a try later.


----------



## butch111

Is there a place to order Modules (USB TE7022 and DAC8741) for the fun?? 
  
 Audio GD told me they dont because the fun is discontinued -- not funny
  
 michael


----------



## butch111

Ok...Audio gd helped me


----------



## adeadcrab (Apr 9, 2019)

muad said:


> One more thing in case anyone missed the post about jumper settings. Instead of using the soft1 2 3 settings to get rid of some of the harshness, change the jumper on the AD1852. There are two possible jumper spots on the module. The one closer to the front is to set it to 192khz upsampling (stock setting) while the pins near the rear are 96khz upsampling. The 96khz is perfect and gets rid of any harshness. Also this way you're not applying any kind of "soft" filtering to your music.
> 
> This was posted before but it was kinda confusing to understand what was being said.




I know it's been 9 years, the FUN has been discontinued for 8, nobody has used the FUN for 5 etc... but thanks for the information about the DAC oversampling and such. The DT880 sibilance was borderline painful, and now the KOSS ESP 95/X had some grating sibilance that this has effectively neutralised for me. Now it's time to replace the Burr-Brown 2134 to get rid of this dark flavor and hopefully tame the sibilance a bit more 



edit: as has been reported previously, it took the edge off but this DAC is inherently sibilant. to be continued...


----------



## adeadcrab (Apr 16, 2019)

Update - Wolfson DAC modules are no longer available so I opted for an external DAC, which is much less harsh than the 1852 but still amazingly revealing, moreso in fact, with a wider soundstage etc etc.
Probably the best option for this unit if looking for upgrades beyond opamp rolling, as the AD1852/Wolfson DAC modules are limiting the potential of the ACSS headphone / preamp outputs, which I am still a fan of.


----------



## adeadcrab

Last one.. high gain is a must, no exceptions. ACSS is used only in high gain, something else I learned later in my ownership of the fun.. good thing I have a DAC that attenuates now 
hope this unit never fails.


----------



## aroldan

I'm still using it after 8 years. Mine has Wolfson DAC + upgraded USB32 interface. I was using low gain until I saw your post. Thank you.



adeadcrab said:


> Last one.. high gain is a must, no exceptions. ACSS is used only in high gain, something else I learned later in my ownership of the fun.. good thing I have a DAC that attenuates now
> hope this unit never fails.


----------



## adeadcrab

Glad to hear it.


----------



## les_garten

Does anyone have the 8741 Module they would like to sell?


----------



## lawrence2357

Anyone out there still using one of these? I got one last year and am very happy. It's a late one with WM8741 and TE7022 modules. Would love to know how to upgrade to USB32 as mentioned just above which would make it the complete package for me.


----------



## lawrence2357

aroldan said:


> I'm still using it after 8 years. Mine has Wolfson DAC + upgraded USB32 interface. I was using low gain until I saw your post. Thank you.


Hi I see you're still active on here, do you still use the Fun, and can you let me know where I can find a USB32 module please, is it a drop in?


----------

