# cheap audiophile-grade power cord?



## Jbucla2005

whats a good cheap audiophile grade power cord to try? Thanks.


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## jilgiljongiljing

Cheapest aftermarket one with good reviews is the Ironlung Jellyfish. Its cheap to try, built quite well, and looks quite nice as well (if you like the translucent purple connectors). You can find numerous reviews and impressions online for it as well.


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## echosf

After a short time of use, I always recommend Pangea power cables, http://www.pangeaaudio.com/products.html, which maybe will fit your need.


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## Lil' Knight

My favorite cheap power cable is the Volex 17604.


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## socrates63

I second the Ironlung Jellyfish. Looks like it's gotten cheaper? I thought I last paid more than $30 but it's listed for $29 now.


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## Lil' Knight

Quote: 





socrates63 said:


> I second the Ironlung Jellyfish. Looks like it's gotten cheaper? I thought I last paid more than $30 but it's listed for $29 now.


 


  Looks exactly the same, for much cheaper. http://cgi.ebay.com/6-SHIELDED-Hospital-Grade-Cord-14-AWG-IEC-POWER-CABLE-/170531295335?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b4751067


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## nikongod

Dont waste your money on cheap power cables. I'm sorry nobody has told you, but happy to say that the cable guys really do have their craft down pat and less expensive cables are built to sound very similar to the ubiquitous IEC cables typically included with computers. 
   
  Im sorry to rain on the parade, but again happy to inform that until you are spending serous money on cables you are basically flushing $20 bills down the toilet. Rather than wasting your money on the most nominal of differences (if they are even there, heh) why not invest in a quality cable?
   
  On that note, the standard ratio for cable cost VS system cost is 1:2, with cables making up the 1. I tend to disagree with this ratio. It assumes a similar system cost for all individulas and does not account for people with less expensive systems where this ratio will not help people get the best sound from their system. I think charlatans use this deceptive tactic to hide the true cost of building a quality system from people but I will happily tell the truith. The fact of the matter is that the cables to make a quality system at any price cost a great deal. You should expect to invest at least a few hundred dollars on cables if you have any aspirations of owning a system worth listening to. This "new" recommendation accounts for people who dont want to spend much on their source, amp, or transducers but still want quality sound.


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## Happy Camper

x2 with what Nikongod says.


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## kboe

Ive used the Iron Lung and the Cardas Twinlink power cables and like them both.  The Cardas is amazing, and the Iron Lung is great as well.  Before you take my word or Nikongods, try them yourself.  Half the fun in this stuff is trying new things.  Be sure and report how you like/dislike any new power cords, or if you cant hear an improvement at all.  MOAR IMPRESSIONS!!!!


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## jilgiljongiljing

I agree and disagree with nikongod, and am sort of with kboe on this subject. I agree that quality cables have a lot more work put into them compared to budget "audiophile" cables, but at the same time, for someone who is skeptical and not willing to put down big money right away, some of these budget cables do offer a way to try something new and for the price, you really don't lose much. If you don't hear a difference, too bad, but the cable isnt a complete waste. Its still a decently built one that will work just fine and look better than the stock cable.


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## Uncle Erik

I just pick up old UL-certified power cords at the TRW swapmeet. They work fine.

 Don't fall for the associated equipment trap. That's where you start telling yourself that if you spend X amount on one thing that something not very expensive is somehow "inadequate.". Where does that end? You will drive yourself crazy if you have to upgrade, upgrade and upgrade every associated object to be "good enough."

 My cousin is a chef and has some pretty nice liquors around. I've had $200/bottle bourbons out of disposable plastic cups as well as cut crystal. It's damned good no matter the cup. My only hangup is that I don't like to put more plastic in the landfill, so I'd go for thrift store glasses. Which, by the way, is what's in my cabinets. Goodwill, Salvation Army and a set that belonged to my grandparents.

 As for power cords "working," here's a thought exercise for you. Suppose you had a very pricey power cord that is reputed to "clean" the power. Now plug that cable in and deliberately put noise on the line. You could measure the noise going in and coming out.

 How would you feel if your pricey power cord showed an equal amount of noise coming out the other end? Granted, there might be something completely misunderstood by science to the cable... but it would still have a quantifiable amount of noise passing through.

 By the way, there are devices that actually remove noise from the line, and demonstrably so. I keep an isolation transformer on my amp.


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## Rdr. Seraphim

I agree with Uncle Erik, to a degree. The power side of my headphone music system is a significant contributor to the overall total value of my headphone music system, not just in $, but especially sound quality. I added isolation Xformer's to my big rig music system in the early 80's and haven't looked back. My current isolation transformer is a balanced design. Even so, I find that adding quality AC cords into the mix, one from the wall to the isolation transformer (20 amp in my case), one for the DAC and another for the amp, contribute to increased resolution, dynamics and lowered noise floor. The effect is cumulative. I use Harmonic Technology AC-10's.


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## Mad Max

I'd recommend the SoniKLEER II over the IronLung Jellyfish.  The jellyfish is good, but the SoniKLEER is much better.


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## Lil' Knight

Quote: 





mad max said:


> I'd recommend the SoniKLEER II over the IronLung Jellyfish.  The jellyfish is good, but the SoniKLEER is much better.


 
  What makes it much better?


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## wildlyesoteric

Hey, good beverage/glass analogy.  I was once told I had no palate after proclaiming that an espresso I had sipped from a 16oz paper cup was delicious (the circumstances aren't worth explaining).  The espresso was, in fact, delicious, and the offending individual an imbecile and hipster jagoff.  I imagine cables and glassware have much in common.  Great components will put out good sounds in their own way however they are fed.  The sounds/flavours may not be flawless, but like harmonic distortion or warmth in audio they add a colour that can be enjoyed for what it is. 
   
  Having said that, I own $50 Riedel Vinum wine glasses.  They make a $35 wine taste like a $40 wine.
   
  See how difficult it is to quantify/qualify these things?
   
   
  Quote:


uncle erik said:


> I just pick up old UL-certified power cords at the TRW swapmeet. They work fine.
> 
> Don't fall for the associated equipment trap. That's where you start telling yourself that if you spend X amount on one thing that something not very expensive is somehow "inadequate.". Where does that end? You will drive yourself crazy if you have to upgrade, upgrade and upgrade every associated object to be "good enough."
> 
> ...


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## Shike

Quote:


jbucla2005 said:


> whats a good cheap audiophile grade power cord to try? Thanks.


 

  One that works?  A power cable isn't going to clean power or anything like that.  Get a cheap isolation transformer unit if you think you have dirty power problems and leave your worries in the past.  I got a PowerVar 6.0 from a thrift shop for $20.


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## Mad Max

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> What makes it much better?


 

 Don't know, maybe it's the cryogenic treatment.  This one improves the sound more than the Jellyfish and is relatively neutral.  The Jellyfish also seems to add treble roll-off, even compared to the stock power cord whereas the SoniKLEER extends it a bit.  When I first tried it, I noticed my AD700 lose nearly a third of its airiness.  I also noticed how the air between sounds is more refined, cleaner, and seems to form more of a background rather than being a murky soup from which instruments and what not come out of.  It opens up the mids and treble to boot.  I've already forgotten what else it does better, lol - it's been a long time.  I just keep the jellyfish plugged into my monitor for the heck of it.  I never liked the Jellyfish's sonic color, either.  I think it was kind of plasticky and artificial.  Lastly, the cryo-treatment seems to have made the SoniKLEER more resistant to corrosion.  I guess it's an Ironlung Jellyfish Mk II?
   
  I'll have to second Shike's opinion though.  Not even the SoniKLEER improves my gears' sound as much as my Belkin filter.


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## Bostonears

For a high quality power cable at a low price, I recommend DIY, such described here: http://www.audiotweaks.com/diy/bobcrump_pc/page01.htm


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## Gradoman

£2 one from CPC, RS Electronics, whatever. Don't waste your money.


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## Lenni

Quote: 





happy camper said:


> x2 with what Nikongod says.


 

X3
  
  Quote:


jilgiljongiljing said:


> I agree and disagree with nikongod, and am sort of with kboe on this subject. I agree that quality cables have a lot more work put into them compared to budget "audiophile" cables, but at the same time, for someone who is skeptical and not willing to put down big money right away, some of these budget cables do offer a way to try something new and for the price, you really don't lose much. If you don't hear a difference, too bad, but the cable isnt a complete waste. Its still a decently built one that will work just fine and look better than the stock cable.


 

 I sort of agree and disagree with you too. he's not gonna lose much - but he's not gonna gain anything either. what's the point in spending, even $20, for something that it's pretty much the same (or maybe worse) than what he already has. unless it's because the way it looks, which it would be ridiculous, imo.
  I use stock power cables, because I don't have enough disposable cash to get real good ones. I'm not gonna bother with "audiophile grade" $20 cables. I think there should be some form of regulation on how and where the word "audiophile" can be used (including people - I kid). it seems to me some manufactures like to associate the word "audiophile" with their products, which is absolutely not the case.


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## Bostonears

lenni said:


> I'm not gonna bother with "audiophile grade" $20 cables. I think there should be some form of regulation on how and where the word "audiophile" can be used (including people - I kid). it seems to me some manufactures like to associate the word "audiophile" with their products, which is absolutely not the case.


 

 Yeah, anything for $20 isn't going to be "audiophile grade" unless its just a gob of Blu-tack.


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## scootermafia

Power cables don't clean your power.  They just let your components suck AC from the wall or whatnot much easier, the straw analogy is accurate...they can then gulp power, not sip it.  The main issue with any generic speaker/power cable is the conductors not being big enough.


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## scootermafia

They're close in price, the SoniKLEER is 16awg and cryo while the jellyfish is non cryo and 14awg.  Both are most likely made by the same OEM, they have the same ends at least.


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## Shike

Quote:


scootermafia said:


> Power cables don't clean your power.  They just let your components suck AC from the wall or whatnot much easier, the straw analogy is accurate...they can then gulp power, not sip it.  The main issue with any generic speaker/power cable is the conductors not being big enough.


 

  That's ridiculous though, most generic IEC power cords have more than adequate gauge to provide the necessary current and voltage for computers sucking a lot more power than most audio equipment here.  If they weren't getting enough power your components would be doing all sorts of nasty things: cutting out, distorting, clipping, etc.


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## Uncle Erik

It is plenty easy to measure the wall socket and what comes out the other end of a power cord.

 If both figures measure the same, then a power cord must be OK, right?

 The generic, used power cords I get for $1 at the swapmeet measure the same as the wall socket, so I don't see any need to buy anything else.

 Also, the cheap cords are UL rated. I like that in a power cord.


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## BoyNamedSue

Shike, do you mind sharing your impressions on the powervar with regard to sound quality difference? The 12amp version seems popular among audio folks, but I haven't read much on the lower amp powervar's. The reason I ask is because I just picked up a 4amp version on ebay for fairly cheap - not as good a deal as your's though! I am planning to connect my newcoming Audio-gd NFB-10 integrated DAC/AMP into it. Do you think the 4amp will be enough to power it? Thanks in advance.
  
  Quote: 





shike said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> jbucla2005 said:
> ...


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## Currawong

It's more than likely that the effects of the various power cords are due to their capacitance (or rather, the capacitance of the dielectric) filtering noise.  This is just my pet theory, however.  Since you can buy a couple of power distributors with noise filtering capacitors in them (or build one yourself easily, with the usual disclaimers about safety here) I'm not convinced that exotic power cords are good value, especially since I own a few myself and have not necessarily had good results.


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## JerryLove

So to the "buy expensive power cables" group I ask: how far back do you run this upgrade? The power cable goes from the connector on the piece of equipment to the wall outlet. Did you upgrade the wall outlet? What about the cable that runs from the wall outlet to the breaker? Did you also upgrade any other outlets that are wired in serial? Did you upgrade the breaker that connects your wall cable to the mains? Did you replace the power-company's stepdown transformer that gave you 120V (or whatever runs where you are)? Did you have the power company upgrade the wire running to your house from the 20kv transformer?
   
  Even assuming that there was a difference between the best "audophile grade" cable and 8ga aluminum: I'm just trying to understand how one comes to the belief that improving the couple of feet from the wall to the equipment is enough to have any effect on power that has dozens of miles of "non-audiophile" gear upstream.


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## Rdr. Seraphim

My buddy just built a new home, and purchased a brand new Xformer to power his new home, ran copper from the Xformer to his home, has a dedicated 220V circuit to his dedicated media room that is full of Equi=Tech (220v and 120v) balanced Xformers, and multiple Richard Gray PCs. Guess he's going to have to buy the power company next!  
   
  BTW, yes, his music system sounds wonderful.


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## JerryLove

But was it audiophile grade oxygen-free copper and was it in a kevlar sleeve?


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## Rdr. Seraphim

LOL! I don't know what it is, but it sure sounds fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  BTW, welcome aboard.


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## kite7

Quote: 





jerrylove said:


> So to the "buy expensive power cables" group I ask: how far back do you run this upgrade? The power cable goes from the connector on the piece of equipment to the wall outlet. Did you upgrade the wall outlet? What about the cable that runs from the wall outlet to the breaker? Did you also upgrade any other outlets that are wired in serial? Did you upgrade the breaker that connects your wall cable to the mains? Did you replace the power-company's stepdown transformer that gave you 120V (or whatever runs where you are)? Did you have the power company upgrade the wire running to your house from the 20kv transformer?
> 
> Even assuming that there was a difference between the best "audophile grade" cable and 8ga aluminum: I'm just trying to understand how one comes to the belief that improving the couple of feet from the wall to the equipment is enough to have any effect on power that has dozens of miles of "non-audiophile" gear upstream.


 

 Yes to all of the above 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Seriously though, how does someone explain that a 6ft power cord makes a difference when power wires run for miles?


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## BIG POPPA

It sounds like you haven't auditioned many power cables? Like anything it takes a little experience to know what you are talking about.
  Quote: 





kite7 said:


> Yes to all of the above
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Rdr. Seraphim

X2
   
  It baffles me, but after 30+ years in electrical engineering (computer design), I am baffled that I cannot explain away the differences I hear with different power cables, but I trust my ears and my experience. The premise that because there are miles of wire ahead of the last two meters has been turned on its head, and became--for me--the two most important meters into my music system. 
   
  It's best to keep an open mind on these things, otherwise it would be too easy to rationalize away a good opportunity for improved sound quality. Of course, it doesn't mean you have to spend a lot of $, but experience is the best teacher in this case, not measurements (at least nothing comes to mind about measuring soundstage, definition and resolution). I think BIG POPPA has a good approach when it comes to power cords, but you can search for his posts on the subject.
   
  As for my personal music system, all my audio components get power conditioning (2.4KVA balanced isolation xformer), and associated quality AC cords, yes from the wall forward (including replacing the AC outlet).    
   
  Quote: 





big poppa said:


> It sounds like you haven't auditioned many power cables? Like anything it takes a little experience to know what you are talking about.


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## BIG POPPA

I am an open book, make the cables I use. Tried all kinds of stuff making cables. Have a clue what works with what. It is not Rocket Science, just power cables.


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## Rdr. Seraphim

Hi BIG POPPA,
   
  I was agreeing with you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, and recommending that kite7 keep an open mind about the possibility of how an AC power cable can contribute to sound quality, as well as suggesting that he search your threads on DIY AC power cables.
   
  Nope, not rocket science, but as you said, a bit of experience goes a long ways. How many weeks, months, years, did it take you to come up with a cable that you eventually settled on? 
  
  Quote: 





big poppa said:


> I am an open book, make the cables I use. Tried all kinds of stuff making cables. Have a clue what works with what. It is not Rocket Science, just power cables.


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## BIG POPPA

I know you were agreeing with me my friend. Some people don't though.
  
  Quote: 





rdr. seraphim said:


> Hi BIG POPPA,
> 
> I was agreeing with you
> 
> ...


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## Rdr. Seraphim

I'll be trying another rather "high-end" DIY in a few days. Not really all that much $ considering the type of materials, so I'm really hoping it pans out. Will post something up if it provides a significant uplift. (Crossed fingers)  
  Quote: 





big poppa said:


> I know you were agreeing with me my friend. Some people don't though.


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## BIG POPPA

Hey Rdr, I have some odd pieces of power cable if you like try some?


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## Rdr. Seraphim

You have PM. 
  
  Quote: 





big poppa said:


> Hey Rdr, I have some odd pieces of power cable if you like try some?


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## JerryLove

The other odd thing is all the people experinced with live music running with normal power cables, normal interconnects, generic speaker wire, generic (built in) DAC's and making lifelike results. Why can't thy hear how crappy their music must sound given that it is missing all those things which make drastic improvements?


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## Rdr. Seraphim

[size=medium]
There are a lot of folks that pay no attention to what I hear, or don't think that it's relevant to their musical experience. Same with my passion for photography. After spending hours PS burning and dodging, white balancing, color correction, noise reduction, sharpening, etc., and think that I have a "masterpiece," I still get the "nice snapshot" review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Same with audio. Some people hear it, and some don't. Some try to rationalize it with science, some through experience and time in the saddle.
   
Heck, we have several professional musician's in the family (that actually make a living as opera singers in Europe, Jazz in USA), and for the most part they don't give a hoot about sound reproduction, except to note e.g. "that was a perfect rendition of Mozart's Faust!" You just don't hear them talking about "air," "soundstage," or "extension at both ends," not to mention anything about what conductors are used in my music system. They are more concerned about intonation, "hitting the note," the execution and performance.
   
I should also mention that I have some musician friends (they don't make their living performing), who do hear a difference. However, they are the exception, and not the rule.   
   
Generally, I believe audiophiles fall into a whole "other" category of music appreciation and reproduction. Most of us are not scientists, but many of us have a science or engineering background, and sometimes we rationalize that we know the "truth" about sound reproduction. With my engineering training and practice over many years, I have settled on what I enjoy doing, listening to music with the best-est "stuff" I can afford at the moment. My musical enjoyment is based on sensory experience, an existential approach (though not entirely disparaging of the objectivist approach), in the moment, and I'm happy with that. For me, I find that AC power cords make a difference, as do IC's, power conditioning, etc. Some products make a difference to me and other's do not. More importantly, some products _enhance_ my listening experience, and other's only make a difference. I differentiate the products that enhance my listening experience over those that I only detect a difference with. I use my own best judgement about what is a meaningful difference to me musically, based on my personal perception and that has a higher level importance. 
   ​[/size]


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## Zorlac

My thought process was always to use high-end audiophile power cables from the power conditioning gear to the audio gear.
   
  I too dont really see the point from the wall to the power conditioning gear unless you upgrade the wall socket, the in-wall wiring, power breaker/panel, etc.
   
  Anyways...have you looked at Cobalt Cable's power cables? They are low priced considering how much these cables can go for and really nice quality in my opinion. I got mine used, but I would definitely buy them new if I had to.


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## Lenni

nice post Rdr.
   
  ...all I can say is that I'm pretty satisfied with how my little system sounds atm, and is partly due to the cables I've purchased.


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## JerryLove

The rail voltage coming off a power supply doesn't vary from moderate fluctuations in the voltage coming in. This is an area heavily explored in amplification, but also in supplying power to electronics. Put simply: Your amp's power supply is a line conditioner.

 There is no insturment that bears your theory out. If there is an effect, it is below the noise floor (try cooling your equuipment for better sound. That will at lest detect on a meter).

 There is no science behind it either. No reason this would make a difference.

 The deciding test is verboden.

 So, if you are open to all possibilities; does that include the possibility that the difference is imagined?


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## Rdr. Seraphim

Actually, I would only say that about some of the more high end amplification where cost is no object and rail variations are absolutely minimized (for a very good reason). There's a reason that some of the most highly regarded amplifiers are built like tanks, as much of the engineering goes into the power supply itself, yet the amp only produces 100w/ch and many times less. In equipment designed for a given price point, compromises are made as "good enough," but certainly not at the level that would allow one to say without equivocation, that an amp's power supply is a line conditioner. It's only a line conditioner in that it converts AC to DC with enough filtering to reliably do its job.  
   
  If you're talking about "imaginary" as imaginary expressions e.g. in algebra, an expression that involves the impossible operation of like taking the square root of a negative number, I'd go for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Let's not talk about the hypothetical though, or make the assumption that someone's experience isn't real. That only degrades the discussion.


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## JerryLove

Quote:


rdr. seraphim said:


> Actually, I would only say that about some of the more high end amplification where cost is no object and rail variations are absolutely minimized (for a very good reason).


 
   
  Actually: I was referring to completely generic computer power supplies for one which I've personally measured... but the power-supply in an amplifier is in many ways similar. Moderate variations in input power simply don't show on the output rails. It is much of the same behavior your external power-conditioner is applying. 
   
  I am aware of the existence of such measurements on some audio gear: but am less familiar with the specifics and have not actually performed the tests myself on such gear.
   
   
  Quote: 





> There's a reason that some of the most highly regarded amplifiers are built like tanks, as much of the engineering goes into the power supply itself, yet the amp only produces 100w/ch and many times less.


 
  Peavy has a new amp line that's getting high marks that ways 7lbs for 1600W. 
   
  The Yamaha P-Series amps are very highly regarded at around 30 lbs.
   
  A class A, B, or AB amp will, if built well, be heavy for several reasons. One is the needed mass for the heat sink (these are very power inefficient amps). Another is going to be the size/weight of the transformer (again, specific to class A/B). Finally: there tends to be signifigant capacitance to deal with sudden load changes.  
   
   
  Quote: 





> In equipment designed for a given price point, compromises are made as "good enough," but certainly not at the level that would allow one to say without equivocation, that an amp's power supply is a line conditioner. It's only a line conditioner in that it converts AC to DC with enough filtering to reliably do its job.


 
  My conclusions are based on measurements of output voltages on power-supplies as the input voltages varied. What is your conclusion that the output voltage does vary based on?
   
   
  Quote: 





> If you're talking about "imaginary" as imaginary expressions e.g. in algebra, an expression that involves the impossible operation of like taking the square root of a negative number, I'd go for that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Actually I was discussing the placebo effect and would appreciate if you would avoid obvious equivocation. I was discussing the tested conclusion that a memory for detail in audio fades in seconds. I was discussing remaining open to possibilities. You said that was what we should do. 
   
  You want me to be open to your possibility; are you not open to mine?


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## Rdr. Seraphim

We knew you were already going there, JerryLove. You might want to take your comments over to the Sound Science forum. They are more open minded to the placebo effect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Best...


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## JerryLove

The existance of the placebo effect is disputed by someone? !?


 I had believed what was in contention was whether your subjective experience was caused by placebo; not whether somethig so well established was real at all.

 Where does that leave any discussion? I say "I have listened over lots of power cables and they all sound the same", you say something different and the person who aske the question flips a coin?


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## dura

The placebo effect certainly exists. However that does not mean everything I do not believe in can be attributed to it.


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## BoyNamedSue

According to these guys, placebo has little to no effect:
  Hróbjartsson, A., & Gøtzsche, P.C. (2001). Is the placebo powerless? An analysis of clinical trials comparing placebo with no treatment. The New England Journal of Medicine, 344(21), 1594–1602.


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## JerryLove

Quote: 





dura said:


> The placebo effect certainly exists. However that does not mean everything I do not believe in can be attributed to it.


 
  Of course not. Some things can be dismissed as not placebo (look: my leg is missing), and others that could be placebo (my headache seems better since taking that asprin) are, in fact, because they are really occurring.

 In this case, regarding the difference (or lack thereof) between power cables: I asked if the other poster would agree the placebo effect was a possible cause.
  
  Quote: 





boynamedsue said:


> According to these guys, placebo has little to no effect:
> Hróbjartsson, A., & Gøtzsche, P.C. (2001). Is the placebo powerless? An analysis of clinical trials comparing placebo with no treatment. The New England Journal of Medicine, 344(21), 1594–1602.


 
   
  Your analysis is lacking. If there is an appropriate form here feel free to start a thread and I'll discuss it with you. I won't argue the existence, or lack of existence, of suggestion on a thread about power cables. With people who agree that the placebo effect has effect, I will discuss if that might cause an apparent difference in undifferentiated sound when power cables are changed.


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## BoyNamedSue

Oh don't get me wrong, I think placebo exists. I referenced the article to your rhetorical question tongue in cheek. The cited study was pretty controversial when it came out, generating lively discussion/debate in medical science field on the existence of placebo. Anyhow, sorry for going OT, back to discussing the merits or lack thereof of power cables!


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## Currawong

Please, indeed if you wish to discuss something other than regarding the OP's question, start your own thread about it or use an existing one on the topic.


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## Bostonears

jerrylove said:


> The other odd thing is all the people experinced with live music running with normal power cables, normal interconnects, generic speaker wire, generic (built in) DAC's and making lifelike results. Why can't thy hear how crappy their music must sound given that it is missing all those things which make drastic improvements?


 

 A lot of amplified live music does sound crappy when you actually listen to its sound quality (or lack thereof). I've heard far more ground loop hums and EMI interference in live performance systems than in home audio systems. To make your point, you'd be better off discussing the cables used in studio sound systems.


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## Shike

Quote: 





boynamedsue said:


> Shike, do you mind sharing your impressions on the powervar with regard to sound quality difference? The 12amp version seems popular among audio folks, but I haven't read much on the lower amp powervar's. The reason I ask is because I just picked up a 4amp version on ebay for fairly cheap - not as good a deal as your's though! I am planning to connect my newcoming Audio-gd NFB-10 integrated DAC/AMP into it. Do you think the 4amp will be enough to power it? Thanks in advance.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

 It prevents my speakers and audio gear from popping when my fridge and ceiling fan turn on since my apartment is wired like crap.  That's about all I noticed, but then again I'm a cable skeptic.  At least it can be proven an isolation transformer does something . . . not to mention I don't get weird popping noises in the night 
   
  Now, if you're worried about voltage stability that's another issue.  There's some tripplites that I hear are good for voltage stability even at 80V brownouts for around $100 that I think would do well in such a situation.  Using both means you have rock steady filtered power that's proven - not subjective even, but empirically.


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## BoyNamedSue

Thanks for your impressions about the powervar. I have a similar problem where my speakers pop whenever I turn on/off my kitchen light, so hopefully the powervar will remedy it. Anyhow, I received the powervar4 last week and connected it to my Logitech z5500s to test it out and I immediately noticed an improvement - the sound is now more smooth and clean, the bass is no longer boomy, and cymbals have more clang to them. I honestly didn't have any expectation that SQ would improve when I first plugged them in - I just wanted to see if powervar worked since I bought them used. I was wondering if the improvement is consistent with what a isolation transformer is supposed to do, or is this just placebo on my part? One thing to note is that prior to connecting the z5500s to the powervar, I had them connected to a generic surge protector that was daisy chained to a Belkin surge protector, and both surge protectors' sockets were filled!


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## Shike

Quote: 





boynamedsue said:


> Thanks for your impressions about the powervar. I have a similar problem where my speakers pop whenever I turn on/off my kitchen light, so hopefully the powervar will remedy it. Anyhow, I received the powervar4 last week and connected it to my Logitech z5500s to test it out and I immediately noticed an improvement - the sound is now more smooth and clean, the bass is no longer boomy, and cymbals have more clang to them. I honestly didn't have any expectation that SQ would improve when I first plugged them in - I just wanted to see if powervar worked since I bought them used. I was wondering if the improvement is consistent with what a isolation transformer is supposed to do, or is this just placebo on my part? One thing to note is that prior to connecting the z5500s to the powervar, I had them connected to a generic surge protector that was daisy chained to a Belkin surge protector, and both surge protectors' sockets were filled!


 

 The PowerVar isn't doing anything measurable as far as sound reproduction is concerned.  If you go by the most likely scenario it's placebo, but there's others that will claim different.  It's also a very touchy subject in this sub-forum.


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## BoyNamedSue

I wonder if an alternate interpretation for the perceived change in sound could be that the powervar is preventing the dirty power from degrading the sound, as opposed to the iso-transformer actually improving the baseline sound quality of my z5500s or the null placebo hypothesis. I am curious though if it is placebo effect or not - I may do a comparison at some point when I have nothing better to do. Even if it turns out to be placebo, I guess paying $50 for placebo sound quality improvement isn't so bad when the primary purpose of the device was for power protection.


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## JerryLove

Quote: 





bostonears said:


> A lot of amplified live music does sound crappy when you actually listen to its sound quality (or lack thereof). I've heard far more ground loop hums and EMI interference in live performance systems than in home audio systems. To make your point, you'd be better off discussing the cables used in studio sound systems.


 

 You misunderstand me. I am not discussing live, amplified performance.
   
  I am discussing, for example, me. I've heard Sheriff sing unplugged, I've sung in a chior, I've played in an orchestra (a high-school one admittedly). I've heard live orchestras, live drum circles, live bards singing round a camp fire, live unamplified stage performances, live my uncle on an acoustic guitar (my other uncle on both piano and trombone, and my cousin's band when unplugged). I've had a professional violinist play for me in my living room (she was cute too).
   
  Why do you believe I, and people like myself, have failed to notice that (since we lack $1k power cables) all our gear sounds like crap? It's not like I haven't heard gear with such exotic cabling (two of my nearby hi-fi stores are advocates and use it).


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## Shike

Quote: 





boynamedsue said:


> I wonder if an alternate interpretation for the perceived change in sound could be that the powervar is preventing the dirty power from degrading the sound, as opposed to the iso-transformer actually improving the baseline sound quality of my z5500s or the null placebo hypothesis. I am curious though if it is placebo effect or not - I may do a comparison at some point when I have nothing better to do. Even if it turns out to be placebo, I guess paying $50 for placebo sound quality improvement isn't so bad when the primary purpose of the device was for power protection.


 


  Doesn't hurt if it stops the pops too.


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## lupin..the..3rd

Quote: 





socrates63 said:


> I second the Ironlung Jellyfish. Looks like it's gotten cheaper? I thought I last paid more than $30 but it's listed for $29 now.


 


  $29 is too much.  It should only be about $8 for this "iron lung" cord which is actually made by Quail ([size=smaller][size=smaller]Quail Electronics Part #: 0322.072)[/size][/size]
   
  http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/28-11318


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