# How is Khozmo Stepped Attenuators?



## fsrick

Hi, do you guys have any experience with the Khozmo Stepped Attenuators? They are ladder type and cheaper than DACT and goldpoint. And they look good . but I have never heard of this brand and cannot search much information about it also. did you guys use this step attenuator before? And how is the quality compare to DACT or goldpoint? I plan to use it for my beta 22 build.Thanks.


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## MASantos

There might be some impressions on these in a couple of weeks. I know of a few people who are buying them.


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## ting.mike

Yes they look very pretty and they are not as expensive as Dact & goldpoint.


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## Steve Eddy

My God, those are SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!

 Who cares how they SOUND? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Though looking at the prices, I'm afraid they may be made in China. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll send 'em an EMail and ask.

 k


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## Ferrari

It's made in Poland. There are 2 balanced attenuators on the way to me.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ferrari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's made in Poland._

 

How sure are you of that? I know the company's based in Poland, but with those prices on top of free worldwide shipping, I can't help seeing China somewhere in the equation.

 k


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## OutdoorXplorer

It looks good and interesting. Wonder whether this can replace the GP in my WA6SE..


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wonder whether this can replace the GP in my WA6SE.._

 

Er, what's a "GP"?

 k


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## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Er, what's a "GP"?

 k_

 

Its GoldPoint and wonder how is this to be assembled on the chassis as no bolt and nut are seen on this product visuals.


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## DoYouRight

Would the 4 channel be the balanced one?


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its GoldPoint_

 

Oh! Gotcha.

 Thanks.

  Quote:


 and wonder how is this to be assembled on the chassis as no bolt and nut are seen on this product visuals. 
 

It would install using standoffs, rather like the Shallco and Seiden open frame switches, or the TKD stepped attenuators.

 Basically four male/female standoffs would screw into the female threads on the front piece of the attenuator, and the attenuator would be mounted to the panel with four screws.

 k


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the 4 channel be the balanced one?_

 

Yup.

 k


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## fsrick

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the 4 channel be the balanced one?_

 

yeah, I think so. and the good thing is that those are ladder type, 2 decks per channel. I want a 4 channel one for my balanced beta 22 build.


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## DoYouRight

I got a DACT Im curious if this is better. It looks very sexy.


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## jam

Steve,

 How about a project using on of these and a transformer..............
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jam


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Steve,

 How about a project using on of these and a transformer..............
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Jam_

 

I just heard back from Arek Kallas at Khozmo and he confirmed that they are indeed made in Poland. So I may just do that. 

 k


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## jam

Steve,

 I propose we design a HP amplifier using said control and publish in this forum.

 It could go like this 

 Input.......Volme control.....Buffer.....ugh! Transformer(X10)...Buffer. 
 Low noise PSU and could double as a preamp.

 Jam


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## fsrick

if there are enough interests, maybe we can do group buy also.


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## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How sure are you of that? I know the company's based in Poland, but with those prices on top of free worldwide shipping, I can't help seeing China somewhere in the equation.

 k_

 

Why would that be an issue?


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why would that be an issue?_

 

Because if they were made in China, I wouldn't buy them.

 k


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## GMF2010

What am I missing here? I don't see prices, nor an "add to cart" button.

 It is this: High Quality Audio & Industrial Attenuators, right?


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## devin_mm

Hmmm... there were options to 'add to cart' an hour ago or so, maybe they sold out.


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## aloksatoor

i swear they had a paypal there. must be updating their website.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devin_mm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm... there were options to 'add to cart' an hour ago or so, maybe they sold out._

 

I believe that's the case. 

 The following was posted by someone over at diyAudio:

_I currently have an order with them and while communication has been very good up to this point they are running a bit behind schedule. It's typical "we just launched the site/product" type of stuff I'm sure._

 k


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## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe that's the case. 

 The following was posted by someone over at diyAudio:

I currently have an order with them and while communication has been very good up to this point they are running a bit behind schedule. It's typical "we just launched the site/product" type of stuff I'm sure.

 k_

 

That'd be me and I heard from Arek (the owner) today. They are working on streamlining their production process so that may be why they took the order buttons down. My order is supposed to ship in approximately one week so we'll see how they do with that. As I said at DIY audio the communication so far as been very good.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That'd be me and I heard from Arek (the owner) today. They are working on streamlining their production process so that may be why they took the order buttons down. My order is supposed to ship in approximately one week so we'll see how they do with that. As I said at DIY audio the communication so far as been very good._

 

Yup. That was you alright. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And yes, communication is good. It wasn't long before I received a reply to my EMail asking where they were made.

 I'm really looking forward to finding out how these things feel. I don't care how good they sound or how good they look, if they feel klunky or sloppy, I'm going to have to pass on them.

 k


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## smeggy

ordered mine through ebay a few days back, got a reply asking what value pot I wanted. They had two listed on ebay and they are now gone.


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## fsrick

hope you guys can get the item soon then let us know about your impression. I really want to put this sexy pot in my build


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fsrick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hope you guys can the item soon then let us know your impression. I really want to put this sexy pot in my build 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I know what you mean.

 But for now, you're just going to have to settle for photographs and a bottle of Jergens Lotion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 k


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## fsrick

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Be classy and use some KY 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Could someone mention what the prices were for those of us who missed them? Thanks =)_

 

$99 for stereo and $149 for 4 channel balanced.


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## ting.mike

whoa that's really cheap!


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ting.mike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_whoa that's really cheap!_

 

No no. They're not "cheap" at all. They're a perfect example of what better deserves to be called "inexpensive." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 k


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fsrick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$99 for stereo and $149 for 4 channel balanced._

 

And $79 for single. Don't forget, there are some who like two knobs to play with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 k


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## sanderx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That'd be me and I heard from Arek (the owner) today. They are working on streamlining their production process so that may be why they took the order buttons down. My order is supposed to ship in approximately one week so we'll see how they do with that. As I said at DIY audio the communication so far as been very good._

 

Well, this is a far better practice than allowing people to continuosly pre-order without actually knowing when (worse, if) they can ship. Hopefully they don't also over-estimate long-term demand and go bankrupt from excess inventory, as it really looks like to be a really nice product.


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## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh! Gotcha.

 Thanks.



 It would install using standoffs, rather like the Shallco and Seiden open frame switches, or the TKD stepped attenuators.

 Basically four male/female standoffs would screw into the female threads on the front piece of the attenuator, and the attenuator would be mounted to the panel with four screws.

 k_

 

So I gotta drill additional 4 holes on my WA6SE if I am getting on of this..


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## technetium

Hmm I am thinking of making myself a passive volume control for my RWA 30.2 sig integrated. But I am new to DIY, how would I connect the cables from the input rca´s? It only have those small "legs" do I simply solder the wire on them? I am thinking of using Kimber TCSS 19awg.
 Btw whats with those four outputs and only 2 inputs?


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I gotta drill additional 4 holes on my WA6SE if I am getting on of this.._

 

That, or, you could make yourself an adapter using a panel bushing that would allow you to mount it like any other pot or rotary switch with a 3/8" bushing.

 k


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## TwinFinnley

Keep us updated on group buys, though I would like to know how well they perform first...


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## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That, or, you could make yourself an adapter using a panel bushing that would allow you to mount it like any other pot or rotary switch with a 3/8" bushing.

 k_

 

Thanks. Never thought of that... I am indeed a noob in DIY.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. Never thought of that... I am indeed a noob in DIY._

 

You're welcome.

 Keystone Electronics' 1705 panel bearing (Mouser part number 534-1705) would be the place to start.






 k


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## devin_mm

They updated their site: "Online ordering available in 2 weeks."


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## Uncle Erik

Just send them an email. That's a gorgeous pot and I'd love to drop them into my amps.

 The price is about right, as well. I'd always been torn between the Chinese ones and Shallco/DACT/Goldpoint.

 But for $100, this is a no-brainer. If they're any good, I'll put these in everything.


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Huge_J* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why would you want to replace a GoldPoint that you know it well made with something inexpensive and of questionable quality? I know that maybe its a great volume control but at those prices could it really be "better" than a GoldPoint?_

 

I can name a few reasons to try it.

 1) It may be just as good a quality at almost 1/2 the price
 2) It has twice as many steps, making for more granular control.

 .


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can name a few reasons to try it.

 1) It may be just as good a quality at almost 1/2 the price
 2) It has twice as many steps, making for more granular control._

 

That's only two. You said "a few." A few is more than two, as just two is "a couple."

 Either edit your post to read "a couple" or give me my money's worth! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 k


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's only two. You said "a few." A few is more than two, as just two is "a couple."

 Either edit your post to read "a couple" or give me my money's worth! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 k_

 

Think you're wrong there:

 few
   /fyu/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fyoo] Show IPA adjective, -er, -est, noun, pronoun
 Use few in a Sentence
 –adjective
 1. not many but more than one: Few artists live luxuriously. 

 But if it makes you feel better Coolio:

 3) Supporting a company with a duller gouging tool

 .


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## smeggy

They look sexy, cost a lot less as they don't come with the usual overheads. If there were made in the US or Europe they'd probably cost more than the GP.

 Also, supporting a new and upcoming company that appears to be producing quality wares. The proof will be in the eating when they arrive.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Think you're wrong there:

 few
   /fyu/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fyoo] Show IPA adjective, -er, -est, noun, pronoun
 Use few in a Sentence
 –adjective
 1. not many but more than one: Few artists live luxuriously._

 

"Few" only works when the actual number is unknown or undefined and you're only wanting to express quantity in a general sense. When you have only two, you use "two" or "a couple."

 Got it?

 Good.







  Quote:


 But if it makes you feel better Coolio:

 3) Supporting a company with a duller gouging tool 
 

I'm afraid I've gone from Coolio to Obtusio as that one flew right over my head.

 'Splain.

 k


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They look sexy, cost a lot less as they don't come with the usual overheads. If there were made in the US or Europe they'd probably cost more than the GP._

 

I dunno. I don't see that an operation like Goldpoint requires much in the way of overhead. When you get right down to it, an operation like that wouldn't really require much more overhead than a spare bedroom.

 k


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## smeggy

It's a simple matter of eastern european manufacturing costs and wages Vs. the West. That's the overhead, along with marketing and bigger markups.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Huge_J* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I understand its worth trying as its all shiny and everything but why replace a perfectly good Goldpoint when it is slim to none that it will sound better?_

 

Because it's all shiny and everything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously. It's a piece of art. And what's wrong with wanting the brains AND the beauty if you can have it?

 k


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## Nisbeth

Beats me too. If you were considering replacing an Alps blue or similar I could understand, but another stepper?

 /U.

 PS: Yes, I know these have more steps than the GP but if you didn't know these existed would you complain about the steps on the GP?


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a simple matter of eastern european manufacturing costs and wages Vs. the West. That's the overhead, along with marketing and bigger markups._

 

Point taken, but labor/wages and materials costs aren't part of overhead which is why I disagreed with your previous post.

 k


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## tacitapproval

Or, perhaps, "pedantio." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "duller gouging tool" = cheaper, as in "price gouging"


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## sanderx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They look sexy, cost a lot less as they don't come with the usual overheads. If there were made in the US or Europe they'd probably cost more than the GP.

 Also, supporting a new and upcoming company that appears to be producing quality wares. The proof will be in the eating when they arrive._

 

They are in fact made in Europe. Price of things is often far more dominated by administrative overheads and markup than cost of components or wages. A sole proprietorship would be able to eliminate a good portion of that but have extra risks on the downside. Things made in the EU/US are not inherently more expensive. It largely happens when innovation is outsourced or done away with.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tacitapproval* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or, perhaps, "pedantio." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nah. Les played the part of Pedantio here.

 My initial post regarding "a few" versus "a couple" wasn't an exercise in pedantry, but just a facetious little joke, which I thought I'd amply indicated with the **** eatin' grin smiley I added at the end for just that purpose.

 Les responded dryly with a dictionary cite for the word "few."

 That was no fun so I thought I'd amuse myself by playing along with the pedantry and see if I could out pedant Pedantio.

  Quote:


 "duller gouging tool" = cheaper, as in "price gouging" 
 

Ah, got it. 

 Thanks!

 k


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## smeggy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sanderx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are in fact made in Europe. Price of things is often far more dominated by administrative overheads and markup than cost of components or wages. A sole proprietorship would be able to eliminate a good portion of that but have extra risks on the downside. Things made in the EU/US are not inherently more expensive. It largely happens when innovation is outsourced or done away with._

 

I should have been more specific, I tend to call Western Europe 'Europe' as I still tend to think of eastern Europe as a seperate entity.

 Anyway, that's all by the wayside as they refunded my PP and apparently canceled my order.


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## sachu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I should have been more specific, I tend to call Western Europe 'Europe' as I still tend to think of eastern Europe as a seperate entity.

 Anyway, that's all by the wayside as they refunded my PP and apparently canceled my order._

 

What?...why did they cancel your order?


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## Uncle Erik

I heard back from Khozmo last night. They said that orders can be placed in two weeks. I'm halfway tempted to order three or four.


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## sachu

I am tempted too..but there are a bunch of people who will be receiving these attenuators in the next couple of weeks..so I am going to wait for impressions before sinking money into this. I did however get my front panel modified to be able to mount them in case i did decide to go for it.


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## smeggy

no explanation, just a PP refund..


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no explanation, just a PP refund.._

 

Arik told me yesterday that PayPal had frozen his account for no reason and required delivery confirmation on items that were ordered just the day before. He said he couldn't do business that way so he refunded money to those who had already paid him through PayPal for orders that hadn't shipped yet. Said he only accepts bank transfers now.

 k


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## DoYouRight

Im eagerly waiting impressions on these to see If its better than the DACT I have.


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## smeggy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Arik told me yesterday that PayPal had frozen his account for no reason and required delivery confirmation on items that were ordered just the day before. He said he couldn't do business that way so he refunded money to those who had already paid him through PayPal for orders that hadn't shipped yet. Said he only accepts bank transfers now.

 k_

 

Bugger that.
 Bank transfers are a pain in the ass, expensive and no recourse on disputes.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bugger that.
 Bank transfers are a pain in the ass, expensive and no recourse on disputes._

 

Yeah.

 Hopefully he can work things out with PayPal, or, as I suggested, see if there are any companies over there in Poland that offer credit card merchant services. I can't swing a dead cat without hitting some company hitting me up for it.

 k


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## smeggy

Let's hope. I would love one, but of course now I'd be right at the back of the list again which is annoying. I'm not doing a bank transfer any more than I'm doing a western union.


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## sachu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let's hope. I would love one, but of course now I'd be right at the back of the list again which is annoying. I'm not doing a bank transfer any more than I'm doing a western union._

 

Does this mean you want that PEC pot for the other amp


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## smeggy

and a pair of surplus store 6cg7s


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## sachu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 and a pair of surplus store 6cg7s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Done! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will throw in a couple of extra goodies as well


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## fsrick

wow, seems this thing is attractive. Only waiting for the impression now.


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## TwinFinnley

Any more updates on these beauties? Have they gotten the paypal situation straightened out?


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## CodeToad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Arik told me yesterday that PayPal had frozen his account for no reason and required delivery confirmation on items that were ordered just the day before. He said he couldn't do business that way ....._

 

That's why we need competition in business. I would imagine if there were viable options to PP in payment SERVICEs then we would see a massive migration from PP. Monopoly in financial anything is NEVER a good thing.


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## jtostenr

Check out the bottom pic on this page - HeadAmp - Audio Electronics (Blue Hawaii SE Electrostatic Headphone Amp)

 I was looking at some pics of the Blue Hawaii and noticed that it uses a pot very similar to the Khozmo. I wonder if it's the same one.....


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jtostenr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check out the bottom pic on this page - HeadAmp - Audio Electronics (Blue Hawaii SE Electrostatic Headphone Amp)

 I was looking at some pics of the Blue Hawaii and noticed that it uses a pot very similar to the Khozmo. I wonder if it's the same one....._

 

That one costs about $1200.

 Now you know why this Attenator has people looking at it. Plus that Alps is not stepped AFAIK. ALPS RK50


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## FallenAngel

That ALPS RK50 is a POT, not a stepped attenuator and is $600 for a dual, haven't seen how much the quad costs.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Plus that Alps is not stepped AFAIK._

 

Nope. It's a conductive plastic pot. Basically a prettier, PC mount version of the Penny & Giles RF15.






 k


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## MASantos

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope. It's a conductive plastic pot. Basically a prettier, PC mount version of the Penny & Giles RF15.







 k_

 

That's a bold statement! The RK50 is probably the best pot available and is a highly engineered piece with high quality materials used throughout, which is why many people think it outperforms many premier steppers like Goldpont.

 Comparing it to a cheap pot is either ignorance or lack of information...


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MASantos* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a bold statement! The RK50 is probably the best pot available and is a highly engineered piece with high quality materials used throughout, which is why many people think it outperforms many premier steppers like Goldpont.

 Comparing it to a cheap pot is either ignorance or lack of information..._

 

No, your claiming I'm comparing it to a cheap pot is either ignorance or lack of information.

 A stereo P&G RF15 will set you back about $250. It is *NOT* a "cheap pot."

 It is every bit as well engineered with high quality materials throughout as the Alps RK50. And both the RF15 and the RK50 use conductive plastic resistive elements.

 The only difference is that the RK50 is PC mount and it looks prettier than the RF15. Oh, and the RF15 has been around longer than the RK50 by over 20 years. Alps is just playing catch up in the high quality potentiometer department.

 k


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## n_maher

I've been speaking regularly with Arek. Paypal is indeed giving him the run-around and making life difficult for him. I'm supposed to see part of my order in the next week or so and will certainly share whatever information I can at that time. I think patience is going to be critical here, it's a new business venture and it's experiencing the typical bumps on the road dealing with an international marketplace. I'm choosing to deal with them, but I'll be dealing cautiously.


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## TwinFinnley

Any news about the availability of these?


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TwinFinnley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any news about the availability of these?_

 

None that I've heard.

 Arek said to me a couple weeks ago that he'd shipped about 20 units, but haven't heard of anyone who's received anything yet.

 k


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## 32y0

The 'taking orders within two weeks' is removed from the site, so any news on this?


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## TwinFinnley

I emailed Arek at around 0430 this morning in the US which was sometime around mid-day for them. They got back to me within 3-4 hours and said that they _are _taking orders and payment via paypal. I'm not exactly sure how he wants you to place your order other than sending an email with your info. I'm sorry I can't give any more information than that.

 Nate should be getting his order "any day now" so I'm going to wait to see how things go for him before I do anything. Not to mention, I want to read his reviews


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## Uncle Erik

Good news! I've been itching to send them a couple hundred and plan to as soon as Nate and others get theirs in.


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## Uncle Erik

Bump. Any news on these? I just checked their site and you still can't order online. Has anyone received one yet?


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## n_maher

Nothing here yet.


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## DoYouRight

bahumbug


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Uncle Erik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bump. Any news on these? I just checked their site and you still can't order online. Has anyone received one yet?_

 

That's what I'm finding just a bit troubling about all this.

 Back on August 22, when word got out about the PayPal problem, I asked Arek if he had shipped any attenuators yet. He said he'd shipped about 20 of them. It seems just a bit odd that if he had shipped out 20 of them, that so far none of the recipients seem to have turned up anywhere.

 k


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## Beefy

I must admit, the PayPal thing did raise my eyebrows. Especially when he started asking for direct deposits instead.

 Still, I am *very* hopeful that these end up being a good product from a reliable seller. He could easily charge more and they would still be an excellent alternative to DACT, Goldpoint etc.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I must admit, the PayPal thing did raise my eyebrows. Especially when he started asking for direct deposits instead._

 

Yeah. Though if PayPal did indeed pull the plug on him, it's not like he had much choice. 

  Quote:


 Still, I am *very* hopeful that these end up being a good product from a reliable seller. He could easily charge more and they would still be an excellent alternative to DACT, Goldpoint etc. 
 

Absolutely.

 By the way, where can I find a larger image of your avatar?

 Edit: Nevermind. Found it. Cool. Not just rocks with teeth, but rocks with teeth with zippers as mouths. 

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/226/5...4a95b143_b.jpg

 k


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## DoYouRight

very excited to get this compared to DACTs


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## fsrick

god, i think the turn around time is a little bit too long for this thing.


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## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what I'm finding just a bit troubling about all this.

 Back on August 22, when word got out about the PayPal problem, I asked Arek if he had shipped any attenuators yet. He said he'd shipped about 20 of them. It seems just a bit odd that if he had shipped out 20 of them, that so far none of the recipients seem to have turned up anywhere.

 k_

 

Well, my order was for 20 of them so...


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## rds

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, my order was for 20 of them so..._

 

You must be making a very unusual amp


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You must be making a very unusual amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nope, just pulled together a small group of friends. It was supposed to help get things started - seems to have had the opposite effect.


----------



## rds

I'm guessing he wanted to get the product out there as soon as possible and ended up advertising before his production was really ready to go.


----------



## SHLim

In any case he might be doing this part time and though he might only sell a few port per month.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SHLim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In any case he might be doing this part time and though he might only sell a few port per month._

 

Perhaps.

 But it'd be nice to see at least ONE of them actually show up on someone's doorstep someday.

 k


----------



## DoYouRight

yeah I would like nates oppinion before I finish up casing my b22 if its better than the dact justin carries.


----------



## komi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, my order was for 20 of them so..._

 

Did you get them yet?

 I call guy yesterday but no one answer the phone, and i am just wondering if is worth ordering yet ...


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps.

 But it'd be nice to see at least ONE of them actually show up on someone's doorstep someday.

 k_

 

To my knowledge at least one, ordered prior to the 20 that I requested, has shown up. But that's it based on the folks I know. 

 And no, still no big box on my desk and no response to the email I sent Arek on Monday. I remain cautiously hopeful but the level goes down a bit every day.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And no, still no big box on my desk and no response to the email I sent Arek on Monday. I remain cautiously hopeful but the level goes down a bit every day._

 

This forum needs a sad kitty smiley...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope it isn't just because he can't make them for the cost, and is going to give up on the idea. I'd gladly pay the same or more than a DACT from Headamp for the increased number of steps, without going to something ridiculously expensive like the Shallco.


----------



## komi

I just make a phone call, no one answering ...


----------



## DoYouRight

did the other one that arrived has it been impressioned yet? maybe I should check the other site.


----------



## Uncle Erik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...without going to something ridiculously expensive like the Shallco._

 

Even more disappointing is that Michael Percy is on vacation for the next month or so. If these don't work out, I was planning to get a Shallco.


----------



## luvdunhill

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Uncle Erik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even more disappointing is that Michael Percy is on vacation for the next month or so. If these don't work out, I was planning to get a Shallco._

 

you might check around at some other places before giving up. For example:

Acoustic-Dimension, high-end audio and components for tube audio


----------



## DoYouRight

in theory how much better is this than a balanced 4 dact like justins or the shallco over the dact?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you might check around at some other places before giving up. For example:

Acoustic-Dimension, high-end audio and components for tube audio_

 

Eeeww. They're anodizing them blue now? Yeccch. I liked the silver ones better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










 k


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To my knowledge at least one, ordered prior to the 20 that I requested, has shown up. But that's it based on the folks I know. 

 And no, still no big box on my desk and no response to the email I sent Arek on Monday. I remain cautiously hopeful but the level goes down a bit every day._

 

Yes, very sad.

 And in his EMail to me, he said he'd SHIPPED 20 units. Not that he was planning to ship them or was getting ready to ship them. But that he'd SHIPPED 20 units.

 k


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_in theory how much better is this than a balanced 4 dact like justins or the shallco over the dact?_

 

We just don't know. Being a ladder attenuator it could theoretically be better and more steps is definitely a good thing...... but it depends on the quality of the switching mechanism, assembly, resistors used etc. All unknown quantities until somebody gets hold of a pile of them.


----------



## DoYouRight




----------



## fsrick

for the resistors, here is his email to me:
 Resistors are vishay 1% 100ppm. Some of them are other brands like vitrohm or royalohm also 1% 100ppm. Have also attenuators with vishay/dale r55 resistors (see pic).


----------



## TwinFinnley

Maybe this will be the magic week when the package of 20 show up... I'm keeping my fingers crossed. If they don't show up soon I'm going to give up on them entirely, this much headache is pretty dissuading.


----------



## dbfreak

Maybe there is a legitimate reason PayPal is giving him the run around. I'm sure they don't want their name tainted with "loose" business practices. If I'm wrong, toss a few tomatoes at me.


----------



## Fitz

PayPal does a good enough job tainting their own name with loose business practices that I doubt they're really concerned about it happening from users.


----------



## IPodPJ

I e-mailed him re: purchasing a quad-balanced attenuator about a week ago and still have received no reply.

 Nate,
 Sorry to hear about your dilemma. I hope you receive them soon, and that Arek is not Mikhail's brother.


----------



## komi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I e-mailed him re: purchasing a quad-balanced attenuator about a week ago and still have received no reply.

 Nate,
 Sorry to hear about your dilemma. I hope you receive them soon, and that Arek is not Mikhail's brother._

 

I hope all will be ok with these orders .. but - to me this deal looks too good to be true ... 

 .. and i hope i am wrong ...


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nate,
 Sorry to hear about your dilemma. I hope you receive them soon, and that Arek is not Mikhail's brother._

 

I'm not sure how you could even consider a parallel to Mikhail at this point, since to my knowledge no money has been taken yet for the large order, and orders made outside of that were promptly refunded once the PayPal problem arose.


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_in theory how much better is this than a balanced 4 dact like justins or the shallco over the dact?_

 

My interest is not in what audible differences there might be, but rather the added adjustability that 48 steps would provide.


----------



## digger945

Amen brotha, 48 steps would be killa.


----------



## DoYouRight

well as long as the sound is the same, I meant, I would love a better degree of control as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 these looks so awesome I hope it ends up being a product and not a flop


----------



## Steve Eddy

I assume it's safe to assume that still no attenuators have shown up anywhere?

 k


----------



## n_maher

Correct, and my emails have not been responded to for over 2 weeks. Sad.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Correct, and my emails have not been responded to for over 2 weeks. Sad._

 

More than sad. Didn't you say you'd ordered 20 of them? And I assume you paid for them?

 I don't get it. I'm pretty sure those images aren't just computer generated renderings. Somebody went through some trouble to make those parts. 

 k


----------



## 32y0

I emailed him and he is still taking orders, wich I find a little strange because nobody received the attenuators yet and he isn't responding to n_maher.
 Also, the balanced attenuators look very different you than would expect from the pictures.

 Responce to my email:

_Thanks for interesting on my products.
 The balanced (shunt and ladder) version is offered only with military Vishay/Dale RN55 resistors (see attached pics).

 I accept paypal.

 Best regards
 Arek Kallas
High Quality Audio & Industrial Attenuators_

 With the following pictures:


----------



## TwinFinnley

Wow, that looks quite a bit different than the other ones shown on their website...


----------



## les_garten

Something Fishy in Denmark, errr Poland in this case....


----------



## FallenAngel

Hmm... well, if it's simply RN55 axial resistors, that's not too different from more "common" types. SMC 0.1% thin film resistors generally have lower noise and better tolerance, plus the lack of lead inductance.

 Very bad that they're ignoring Nate, strongly recommend not ordering anything from them until they clear things up.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Something Fishy in Denmark, errr Poland in this case...._

 

Yeah.

 He's yet to deliver what he was originally offering, and now he's got something completely different that he's selling?

 Oh yeah, and he's accepting PayPal again?

 k


----------



## cobaltmute

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't get it. I'm pretty sure those images aren't just computer generated renderings. Somebody went through some trouble to make those parts. 

 k_

 

I may be wrong, but if this was a real picture, why would every resistor be the same? If there was only two resistors in the path, wouldn't some of these have to be different?


----------



## rds

^ I was thinking the same thing (especially since they're 100k), although I don't really know anything about these.

 Anyways, whether or not these products actually exist, this is clearly a very shady "business".


----------



## FallenAngel

If it's a ladder type attenuator wouldn't the resistors to ground all be same?


----------



## rds

maybe, but if this attenuator (from gold point website) had all 100k ohm resistors, then its input impedance would be 100k ohm x 24 steps = 2.4M ohm
 ...doesn't seem right






 EDIT also looking at this schematic, the image of Khozmo makes even less sense since on the Khozmo all the resistors are connected together on one end.

 EDIT 2 ah, that's a series type. Haha oops, disregard the above


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it's a ladder type attenuator wouldn't the resistors to ground all be same?_

 

No.

 k


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cobaltmute* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may be wrong, but if this was a real picture, why would every resistor be the same? If there was only two resistors in the path, wouldn't some of these have to be different?_

 

Yes, they would.

 I've no explanation for why they're not.

 k


----------



## jnewman

It makes perfect sense if you're looking at the ground leg deck of the attenuator at the full-attenuation end.

 A ladder attenuator with 2dB steps starting at -60dB would have at least 10 resistors on the signal leg side that are equal to the nominal attenuator impedance. The photo has 10 visible resistor markings.

 Example: I have one of the old 23-position Elna ladder attenuator switches. If I made a 100K attenuator, the signal leg resistor for -60dB, -55dB, -50dB, -45dB, and -40dB (positions 1-5, less control at the low end) would all be 100K resistors. The ground legs would be, respectively, 100 ohm, 180 ohm, 340 ohm, 560 ohm, and 1000 ohm. Yes, ideally the -40dB step would actually be 1000 ohm / 99K, but there is no 99K resistor in typical product lines. The closest value is still 100K. Next closest is 97.6K.

 Values are generally the same regardless of order. You would expect 1K/100K at the -40dB step, and a 97.6K signal leg resistor for the next value, or the one after that. If using a resistor series with fewer standard values, you would get a few more steps with 100K signal leg resistors.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jnewman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It makes perfect sense if you're looking at the ground leg deck of the attenuator at the full-attenuation end.

 A ladder attenuator with 2dB steps starting at -60dB would have 15 or so resistors on the ground leg side that are equal to the nominal attenuator impedance. The photo has 10 visible resistor markings.

 Example: I have one of the old 23-position Elna ladder attenuator switches. If I made a 100K attenuator, the ground leg resistor for -60dB, -55dB, -50dB, -45dB, and -40dB would all be 100K resistors. The signal legs would be, respectively, 100 ohm, 180 ohm, 340 ohm, 560 ohm, and 1000 ohm. Yes, ideally the -40dB step would actually be 1000 ohm / 99K, but there is no 99K resistor in typical product lines. The closest value is still 100K. Next closest is 97.6K._

 

I'm not sure exactly what it is you're describing here, but it's certainly not a 100k ladder attenuator.

 A ladder attenuator works just like a regular "series" attenuator except the series and shunt portions are split up into two switches, with one switch handling the series resistance and the other the shunt resistance.

 The total of each pair of resistors equals the total resistance of the attenuator, which in the case of a 100k attenuator would be 100k. So at the midpoint of attenuation (-6dB), each resistor would be 50k.

 The resistors in the ground leg deck at the full attenuation end would be approaching zero ohms, and would not be anywhere close to the attenuator's value.

 Edit: Perhaps you mean the series deck at near full attenuation?

 k


----------



## cobaltmute

To note as well on that picture is that there is no land pattern to solder those resistors down or by the looks of it any solder for that matter.

 And those resistors are:
  Quote:


 Resistors: 1% 100ppm , 1/10W, low noise, non-inductive, metal film 
 

I'd like to find some SMD metal films that are not MELF format. 1% 100ppm are likely thick film unless I've missed something in my searching at Mouser and Digikey.


----------



## jnewman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure exactly what it is you're describing here, but it's certainly not a 100k ladder attenuator.

 A ladder attenuator works just like a regular "series" attenuator except the series and shunt portions are split up into two switches, with one switch handling the series resistance and the other the shunt resistance.

 The total of each pair of resistors equals the total resistance of the attenuator, which in the case of a 100k attenuator would be 100k. So at the midpoint of attenuation (-6dB), each resistor would be 50k.

 The resistors in the ground leg deck at the full attenuation end would be approaching zero ohms, and would not be anywhere close to the attenuator's value.

 Edit: Perhaps you mean the series deck at near full attenuation?

 k_

 

Sorry, I mistyped. I had the signal and ground leg resistors swapped. Yes, that would be the signal deck rather than the ground deck. Regardless, you could easily take a photo of ten 100k resistors right next to each other in such an attenuator. I'm not going to do the math to fill in the steps, but the 5dB steps for a 23 position attenuator are below. -40dB with 2dB steps would still be 100k/1k, the nine values replacing the three listed in between -60dB and -40dB would just be spaced differently. I am going to correct my previous post to prevent confusion.

 -60dB: 100k/100
 -55dB: 100k/180
 -50dB: 100k/340
 -45dB: 100k/560
 -40dB: 100k/1k


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jnewman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, I mistyped. I had the signal and ground leg resistors swapped. Yes, that would be the signal deck rather than the ground deck. Regardless, you could easily take a photo of ten 100k resistors right next to each other in such an attenuator. I'm not going to do the math to fill in the steps, but the 5dB steps for a 23 position attenuator are below. -40dB with 2dB steps would still be 100k/1k, the nine values replacing the three listed in between -60dB and -40dB would just be spaced differently. I am going to correct my previous post to prevent confusion._

 

Ah, ok.

 And of course this was supposed to have been what, a 40 position pot? So you'd have to slice things up even thinner and given standard resistor values, a lot more 100k resistors.

 k


----------



## jnewman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, ok.

 And of course this was supposed to have been what, a 40 position pot? So you'd have to slice things up even thinner and given standard resistor values, a lot more 100k resistors.

 k_

 

The website said 2db/step for the first 11 (most attenuation) steps.


----------



## n_maher

I'll try sending another message to make sure that my previous attempts were not filtered or lost. At this point I'm just happy that I haven't paid for anything yet.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll try sending another message to make sure that my previous attempts were not filtered or lost. At this point I'm just happy that I haven't paid for anything yet._

 

Since on the previous page 32y0 got a reply, perhaps he can send a question about why you(Nate) are not being replied to? He could point out the poisoning that is going on with his product line. Perhaps give him the *last *benefit of doubt, like maybe you're hitting his spam folder or something.


----------



## DoYouRight

he is hurting his business atleast from this site. though the pic he got in email is NOT tempting as the original ones.


----------



## smeggy

problem is that their website still shows the 'sexy' design and no PP option, in email they're butt ugly things with PP option?

 I'm not touching this with a bargepole until they get their **** together and show what, if anything, is for sale and how. What started as very exciting is now looking very 'bait and switch' using, at best, not what was promised, and at worst, vaporware. Just a little too shady for me.

 Glad PP canceled my order and refunded me.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_problem is that their website still shows the 'sexy' design and no PP option, in email they're butt ugly things with PP option?

 I'm not touching this with a bargepole until they get their **** together and show what, if anything, is for sale and how. What started as very exciting is now looking very 'bait and switch' using, at best, not what was promised, and at worst, vaporware. Just a little too shady for me.

 Glad PP canceled my order and refunded me._

 

Boy those original PIX, Price, and Specs were enticing though weren't they? Damn shame, it would be an even bigger disappointment if the guy really had this product and was a screw-up at doing business.


----------



## smeggy

Well that's what I'm waiting for. I'll give them the benefit but they really need to post an update on their site letting us know what, if anything, is happening at this point. Even if only to mitigate the damage already done to their reputation.

 Not doing so leads to threads like this where they are now being seen as a shady operation. Not good for them or us.


----------



## 32y0

I asked him if he was allready shipping and why people didn't receive his attenuators yet and this was his reply:

_Hi

 Yes, I allready shipp but only the RN55-Dale version. I had some problems to assemble the SMD version and I will no more produce it temporary. I have also some good feedbacks on ebay eBay Feedback Profile for arekkallas or audiogon.

 This week I will take new photos of the Dale-Version.

 Best regards
 Arek Kallas
High Quality Audio & Industrial Attenuators_


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *32y0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked him if he was allready shipping and why people didn't receive his attenuators yet and this was his reply:

Hi

 Yes, I allready shipp but only the RN55-Dale version. I had some problems to assemble the SMD version and I will no more produce it temporary. I have also some good feedbacks on ebay eBay Feedback Profile for arekkallas or audiogon.

 This week I will take new photos of the Dale-Version.

 Best regards
 Arek Kallas
High Quality Audio & Industrial Attenuators_

 

Hmmm, he has only had two sales of anything ever on Ebay. They were two of his POTs. All his other feedback is as a buyer. So overall as a seller if you factor in the negatives for the 20+ he was supposed to sell here, he's way in the rears on his feedback. If that email is the extent of his explanation, and his idea of customer support is to stop communication when he runs into problems, I would say stick a fork in him. Smells like he's done. I'll take a few if he sends them out on condition of acceptance.


----------



## luvdunhill

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cobaltmute* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to find some SMD metal films that are not MELF format. 1% 100ppm are likely thick film unless I've missed something in my searching at Mouser and Digikey._

 

Susumu at Digikey?


----------



## cobaltmute

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Susumu at Digikey?_

 

200 or 350ppm, not 100ppm


----------



## luvdunhill

These resistors are carried at Newark:

IRC / TT ELECTRONICS|PFC-W0603LF-03-1002-B|Thin Film Chip Resistor | Newark.com

http://www.irctt.com/pdf_files/PFC-COM.pdf

 I've used them in attenuators.. a bit overkill perhaps, but ...


----------



## cobaltmute

the IRCs are Thin film, not Metal film.

 And nothing wrong with overkill.


----------



## luvdunhill

overkill is fine? why didn't you say so....that's easy Vishay VSMP

 0.01%, metal film, .2 ppm

VISHAY|VSMP0805 1K-TCR0.2-TST|Metal Film | Newark.com

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/6449.pdf


----------



## dsavitsk

A lot of these chip resistors are magnetic -- probably worth checking before soldering.


----------



## dbfreak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dbfreak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe there is a legitimate reason PayPal is giving him the run around. I'm sure they don't want their name tainted with "loose" business practices. If I'm wrong, toss a few tomatoes at me._

 

So far, not a single tomato...


----------



## cobaltmute

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_overkill is fine? why didn't you say so....that's easy Vishay VSMP

 0.01%, metal film, .2 ppm

VISHAY|VSMP0805 1K-TCR0.2-TST|Metal Film | Newark.com

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/6449.pdf_

 






 I was trying to look for those last nite, couldn't remember the series.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsavitsk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A lot of these chip resistors are magnetic -- probably worth checking before soldering._

 

Pretty much all chip resistors have a nickel barrier plating over the copper end caps. It's there to prevent scavenging and leaching of the copper due to the solder, primarily lead-free solder. It's not so much a problem in large, leaded parts, but chip resistors, you're talking about what amounts to thin copper foil for end caps.

 I don't know that I'd lose any sleep over a microscopically thin nickel plating. It's not like the steel end caps you'll find on leaded resistors.

 se


----------



## DouglasQuaid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dbfreak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far, not a single tomato...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

All tomatoes I come in contact with go into my belly. Sorry.


----------



## mourip

Anyone received one yet?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mourip* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone received one yet?_

 

Apparently a Hoax or Vaporware.


----------



## n_maher

Vaporware. I've officially called off the group buy that I organized for them so if a box does shop up I'll refuse it and it can go back.


----------



## lawbadman

Any update? 
 Anyone received anything?


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lawbadman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any update? 
 Anyone received anything?_

 

Nope, I've sent additional messages through multiple points of contact and gotten nothing. At this point I would recommend anyone doing any business with them.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At this point I would recommend anyone doing any business with them._

 

I assume there was supposed to be a "not" in there somewhere? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Well, it seems SOMEONE has received at least one of them. Wonder what his secret was?

Potentiometer Overview - Alps, Penny+Giles, TKD and Vishay and more, what's your fav? - diyAudio

 se


----------



## smeggy




----------



## Steve Eddy

So, how do they FEEL?

 Also, yours have 8 screws in the ass end. The other has only 4. Hmmm...

 se


----------



## smeggy

Yeah, seems they went through a few designs. The clicks are very positive with a good overall feel. Good channel balance and very solid feeling. The contact pins they use are also computer plug standard size and spacing so you can use common connectors and just plug them on like the Beta 22 connectors. Mine has two rows of 3 pins and is wired like any other stereo pot, Gd, out, in.

 I just have it attached to my front panel with rubber glue until I mount it properly. Mine also doesn't have the raised inner on the faceplate as shown in their photos. Still, nice and sexy and works well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, the steps are perfect. No annoying overly big jumps in volume that leave you wishing it was somewhere in between.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The clicks are very positive with a good overall feel._

 

Have you ever used the Elma switches with the light detent springs? If so, how does the Khozmo compare?

 Thanks, Smeggy!

 se


----------



## Pars

Nice Smeggy! You need to replace that slotted set screw in the knob with a proper allen headed one, however. I would guess M3 thread.


----------



## smeggy

Sadly not used the Elna switches (knowingly) so can't say. It is a firm click though.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sadly not used the Elna switches (knowingly) so can't say. It is a firm click though._

 

Oh. Well, just send me your Khozmo and I'll let you know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 se


----------



## smeggy

sure thing Steve....















 NOT!!!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Pity.

 And I'd just booked a flight to have a dear friend of mine come up there and pick it up for me.






 I told her to make absolutely sure you knew just how appreciative I was of your generosity.

 Oh well.

 I'm sure her and I can find something else to keep her occupied this weekend.






 se


----------



## sachu

hotdamn smegster..
 You finally got one!..how does it compare sound wise to the PEC pot you had before.


----------



## smeggy

Heya sach
 the kozzy is more precise and accurate in operation. Of course I need to give it at least 5,000 hours of burn in time before I can really say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah, it's really nice. Big anch chunky too. Not sure what the issues were getting it into production but they woulda made a killing had they not flakes so badly. I can't believe I lucked into this one but the stacker is very appeciative


----------



## sachu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heya sach
 the kozzy is more precise and accurate in operation. Of course I need to give it at least 5,000 hours of burn in time before I can really say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, it's really nice. Big anch chunky too. Not sure what the issues were getting it into production but they woulda made a killing had they not flakes so badly. I can't believe I lucked into this one but the stacker is very appeciative 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

THey messed that one quite badly.. i would like to get one for mine as well.especially since i had the front panel custom made to mount the Khozmos.
 Thought they returned your money to you? Did you contact them after the GB fell through?


----------



## sq225917

SO, is anyone else going to run the risk.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Hate to bump old thread, but did anyone succeed in getting one of these from Khozmo lately?


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





lil' knight said:


> Hate to bump old thread, but did anyone succeed in getting one of these from Khozmo lately?


 

 I saw someone had received one on DIY Audio.  It would be nice if we knew if they had straightened their act up.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Yeah, I saw that thread and realized that their website has the Paypal button to buy. I already sent them an email asking about the stock, hopefully I'll receive some good news. If not, I might end up with TKD stepped attenuator.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





lil' knight said:


> Yeah, I saw that thread and realized that their website has the Paypal button to buy. I already sent them an email asking about the stock, hopefully I'll receive some good news. If not, I might end up with TKD stepped attenuator.


 

 I've tried contacting them in the past and they weren't answering emails either.  Hopefully,you'll be more successful.


----------



## Takaji

I'm a little confused, and perhaps somebody can help me out a bit. I'm trying to plan out a new setup for my office, and so far it's looking like Computer --> DACmagic --> Attenuator --> Active Monitors.
   
  If the connection between the DACmagic and the monitors is balanced, I would need a balanced attenuator. Does this mean I would need two separate controls? Would I be looking to buy a stereo pot from Khozmo?
  They look great and I'd love to design a little case with balanced ins/outs.


----------



## Lil' Knight

If it's balanced, you'd need a quad pot.


----------



## nikongod

Quote: 





lil' knight said:


> If it's balanced, you'd need a shunted pot.


 

 FIFY


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





nikongod said:


> FIFY


 

 Both versions of his balanced POT look very nice. You in the shunted camp ehhh?


----------



## nikongod

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> You in the shunted camp ehhh?


   
  Yepp. The difficulties of keeping the phases equally opposite with a 4-deck pot bother me. I guess these problems become much easier to solve with steppers but eeh. I also like that I can get quality 2 deck pots at the drop of a hat, they take up half as much room, and I prefer the way a shunted 2-deck pot works when providing an SE signal to a differential pair.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





nikongod said:


>


 

 Interesting perspectives, Thanx!


----------



## Takaji

What's the difference between shunted and ladder type? ...Was my next question.
  Either way, I'll need a quad pot, yes?


----------



## slowpogo

With the ladder type, no matter what position you have the knob in, the signal is only going through a few resistors. 
   
  With other types, more attenuation = more resistors, which to purists means the signal is more mucked up at lower volumes.  Or at least the sound will be inconsistent from position to position.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





takaji said:


> What's the difference between shunted and ladder type? ...Was my next question.
> Either way, I'll need a quad pot, yes?


 

 Here ya go.
   
http://diyaudio.co.kr/wwwboard1/data/board1/compare.pdf


----------



## Takaji

Okay! I guess I'll be ordering a quad ladder pot! Would this be correct if I'm running a balanced setup?


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





takaji said:


> Okay! I guess I'll be ordering a quad ladder pot! Would this be correct if I'm running a balanced setup?


 

 Let us know how it is when you get it.


----------



## Takaji

Sorry - there's one thing I forgot to ask. How do I know what resistance I'll need? I'll be running this between a DacMagic and a pair of powered Mackie MR8 monitors.
  I've read that solid state audio usually requires between 50-100k. Is this true?
  I've also read that 10k is a common value.


----------



## mugdecoffee

Quote: 





takaji said:


> Sorry - there's one thing I forgot to ask. How do I know what resistance I'll need? I'll be running this between a DacMagic and a pair of powered Mackie MR8 monitors.
> I've read that solid state audio usually requires between 50-100k. Is this true?
> I've also read that 10k is a common value.


 
  10k, 50k, and 100k are all common values.  As the resistance gets higher, noise becomes more of a concern.  This might apply especially to you if you're using one as a passive volume control.  On the other hand, lower values place higher loads on the DAC and the amp/active monitors have a capacitor on the input, the bass could suffer depending.  All in all any value will probably be fine and 50k is a good middle ground.


----------



## Takaji

I ordered a 50k quad ladder type, and just got some XLR connectors - I'll let you guys know what it sounds like once I get it all hooked up!
  Thanks for the help.


----------



## Trysaeder

Oh what. $180 bucks for a pot?
  I am really in the wrong hobby for a high school student...diy my dad supports me with, however I doubt that includes a $200 aud pot.
   
  Some of my friends on the other hand, are into $1500 cameras plus $200 lenses...
  I could build and balance a B22 and DT880 for that money.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Well, considering a pair of rhodium connectors (merely cosmetic) cost more than $200, $180 for a pot is a 'bargain' for me.


----------



## Beefy

Quote: 





lil' knight said:


> Well, considering a pair of rhodium connectors (merely cosmetic) cost more than $200, $180 for a pot is a 'bargain' for me.


 

 I can't believe anybody infer that having rhodium connectors is even close to the importance of a good pot......


----------



## Takaji

Quote: 





trysaeder said:


> Oh what. $180 bucks for a pot?
> I am really in the wrong hobby for a high school student...diy my dad supports me with, however I doubt that includes a $200 aud pot.


 

 I actually paid $299 for the pot... but who's keeping track? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  All I can say is it better sound like pure gold/rhodium/pick metal of your choice when I get it!


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote: 





beefy said:


> I can't believe anybody infer that having rhodium connectors is even close to the importance of a good pot......


 

 I kept remembering someone telling that rhodium connectors make the soundstage taller. Not sure if a good pot could do that.


----------



## Beefy

Quote: 





lil' knight said:


> I kept remembering someone telling that rhodium connectors make the soundstage taller. Not sure if a good pot could do that.


 

 Hanging a person from the neck makes them taller too. Doesn't mean we should all run out and do it.


----------



## Takaji

Well hopefully this pot will make the soundstage awesomer.
  The awesomeness factor will be increasing by a googleplex.
   
  Now I just have to find a nice, big fat knob for the front of the case... any ideas anyone?


----------



## xxbaker

Quote: 





takaji said:


> Well hopefully this pot will make the soundstage awesomer.
> The awesomeness factor will be increasing by a googleplex.
> 
> Now I just have to find a nice, big fat knob for the front of the case... any ideas anyone?


 

 A little while ago I spent some time looking for a large, reasonable priced knob.  I ended up getting this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290374815327&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_928
   
  Most of the knobs I found that I liked more were a lot more expensive (ie DACT, or sites that had minimum orders).  I'm not sure how big you wanted, but this one is decent sized and hefty since it's solid (some other knobs aren't).


----------



## momomo6789

drill hole in hokey puck = biggest black nob ever !


----------



## Takaji

Quote: 





xxbaker said:


> A little while ago I spent some time looking for a large, reasonable priced knob.  I ended up getting this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290374815327&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_928


 

 Not bad, but I bought a knob from these guys for use in my Millett MAX case, and it was really nice... I just wish there was a bigger version... http://www.partsconnexion.com/chassis_knobs.html


----------



## Alkerion

Hi !
   
  I'm trying since days to contact Khozmo to buy an attenuator, and until now I doesn't really obtain answers.
   
  Did you faced the same problem ?
   
  Anyone of you bought one the past weeks and obtain it ?
   
  Thanks for your feedback
   
  BR


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





alkerion said:


> Hi !
> 
> I'm trying since days to contact Khozmo to buy an attenuator, and until now I doesn't really obtain answers.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Yeah, that's about it.  They Suck apparently.  You might want to read the thread from the start...


----------



## Takaji

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> Yeah, that's about it.  They Suck apparently.  You might want to read the thread from the start...


 

 Not true at all. I just bought a quad pot from them two weeks ago. Email correspondence with them was quick and courteous. I will let you guys know when I receive the pot.


----------



## jdkJake

Goldpoint makes some nice knobs. Not too pricey. At least considering what you are spending for a pot.

 They also make a stepped product. I have not heard any opinions on it yet.

 jk


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





takaji said:


> Not true at all. I just bought a quad pot from them two weeks ago. Email correspondence with them was quick and courteous. I will let you guys know when I receive the pot.


 

 Actually it is true.  You are just in the minority, so that's your perspective.  Congrats, they answered an email and got your money.  A lot of people were in that boat before, none recived a POT though.  Also, a lot of $$$ was sent to them with NOTHING delivered.  I've sent three requests for info, no responses.  I hope things turn out well for you, but it should be pointed out that you don't have your POT yet, so don't speak too soon.  You don't want to jinx yourself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Until they have a good "track record", to me they are to be avoided like the plague.  A company that can't answer sales calls/emails???   What chance do you have if they actually become _*SO*_ efficient that they get your money?
   
  I would Love to see them get their act together, but there is no real evidence that it has happened as evidenced by the recent post that they still don't answer sales emails??


----------



## Alkerion

So,
  no improvements on their side regarding business relations with clients.
   
  Perhaps we have to try eMails in Polish 
   
  On the other hand I've ordered a Goldpoint with some knobs, parcel arrived quickly but goods was poorly packed and parts have some damages.
  I've raised a complain but haven't got any reply until now.. 
   
  UPDATE: They finally answer, they sent me new parts charge free. Good good good 
   
  BR


----------



## Takaji

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> Actually it is true.  You are just in the minority, so that's your perspective.  Congrats, they answered an email and got your money.  A lot of people were in that boat before, none recived a POT though.  Also, a lot of $$$ was sent to them with NOTHING delivered.  I've sent three requests for info, no responses.  I hope things turn out well for you, but it should be pointed out that you don't have your POT yet, so don't speak too soon.  You don't want to jinx yourself


 

 I see. Well hopefully I don't have any problems. I'll keep you guys posted.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





takaji said:


> I see. Well hopefully I don't have any problems. I'll keep you guys posted.


 

 Definitely would like to hear how it turns out.
   
  Unfortunately, even if yours is perfect, it is one positive data point against so many negatives.


----------



## smeggy

It's a real pity because the original pot is awesome and I'd love to get more of them.


----------



## Takaji

I don't know why other people had problems, but I've had none at all. Arek told me the pot shipped on July 1, and I just received it today, so that took about two weeks.
  I would do business with them again - every time I emailed them, I got a quick response.
   
  Now, I'm just waiting to hear the amount of degrees that each step on the attenuator makes, so I can design a case! 
   
  Pics for you guys to see: http://www.flickr.com/photos/takaji/sets/72157624516868804/
  Note that I added the knob.
   
  PS - Does anyone know why the "OUT" part of the attenuator has two holes? Is that for if I'm running dual wires to my speakers or something?


----------



## les_garten

That's Good News, hopefully they have their act together now.


----------



## Uncle Erik

Wow - I had completely written these guys off. I would love to have one of their attenuators (or several, actually), but I'll hold off to see if they continue to deliver. If they do, I have a project one of these would be perfect for.


----------



## Takaji

Well, now my next step is to design the casework for the attenuator. My only beef is that the solder points are on the bottom of the device, and don't really allow for true through-hole soldering, since the wires are coming out on the same side as the soldering points...
   
  Not a huge deal though.
   
  Edit: I thought I'd add, that Arek told me that each step is 7.2 degrees, which is useful for anyone who may be designing a case to put their attenuator (like I am).


----------



## Lil' Knight

Looks freakin' amazing!
  
  Quote: 





takaji said:


> Pics for you guys to see: http://www.flickr.com/photos/takaji/sets/72157624516868804/


----------



## Takaji

Well, I finished my attenuator, and it's all set up! Thought I'd show you guys.
   


 


   
  Right now I don't have the right-sized knob on it... I ordered a 4cm diameter one that should come within a week or so. Glad it's done!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Purdeee!
   
  se


----------



## 32y0

I bought a 100k stereo ladder type attenuator from khozmo. Here are some pictures:
   



   



   



   



   
  The thing attached at the shaft is not included. I have attached it to allow the use of an extension shaft.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





32y0 said:


> The thing attached at the shaft is not included. I have attached it to allow the use of an extension shaft.


 
   
  Who makes it? Looks very well made.
   
  se


----------



## 32y0

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Who makes it? Looks very well made.
> 
> se


 

 I don't know, bought them at a local audio/DIY store.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Ah, ok. Thanks anyway.
   
  And good luck with the Khozmo!
   
  se


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





32y0 said:


> I bought a 100k stereo ladder type attenuator from khozmo. Here are some pictures:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Can you describe the ordering and delivery process from start to finish and how long it took?


----------



## Lil' Knight

AFAIK, Parts Connexion is going to stock the Khozmo so they might have some on hands.


----------



## les_garten

That will be great.  Nice to have a nice 48 position stepper.
   
  Maybe some more souls will order some of these and we can establish that they have become reliable.  Parts Connection should make them take off.


----------



## Lil' Knight

pcx is surely a nice place for boutique parts. Saved quite a lot of money on shipping when ordering from them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  32y0, looks like yours has different pcb from the one on their website:
   



   
  I'd prefer the one with the Molex connector than having to solder underneath the board.
  Also, do you know where they put the Caddock resistors?


----------



## Uncle Erik

Those look terrific, and that attenuator is beautiful!

 I'll have to go check the pcx site - I'd be happy to order through them.


----------



## 32y0

Quote: 





lil' knight said:


> pcx is surely a nice place for boutique parts. Saved quite a lot of money on shipping when ordering from them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I don't know about the molex connectors, I just got it this way.
  I'm also not sure about the Caddock resistors, maybe they only use it in the shunt types. The one I have is a ladder type, but it dissapeared from the website.


----------



## 32y0

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> Can you describe the ordering and delivery process from start to finish and how long it took?


 
   
  I have orderd and payed on August 27th.
  After that I asked on September 1st what the status was. Arek told me he just finished it and had to test it, after that he would send it.
  There was a little delay, so he sent the attenuator on September 6th. Five days later I received the package.


----------



## Lil' Knight

FYI, pcX now carries the Khozmo, only shunt version though. Nut and screw are also included.
https://www.partsconnexion.com/conrtols_attenuator_khozmo.html


----------



## wink

I paypalled a shunt 50K quad on the 4th from khozmo, it shipped on the 7th, received here in Aus on the 22nd.
   
  parts connexion doesn't carry the 50k quad.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I'd expect CONUS buyers will enjoy much faster shipping time from pcX. Anyone ordering one soon should take a look at a pair of Vishay nude Z-foil resistors that pcX also carry. I much prefer them to the Caddock that the stock Khozmo uses.
   
  Why just stuck with the 50k?


----------



## pompon

Quote: 





beefy said:


> I can't believe anybody infer that having rhodium connectors is even close to the importance of a good pot......


 


 Every parts have it's own importance.
   
  If you have speakers permitting bi-wire (2 terminals) and you don't using them bi-wired or bi-amp,  you have a jumper installed. Try just to bypass the stock jumper using your own cables as jumper. You will hear the difference. It's only 2 inch of cable and it's have an audible impact.


----------



## pompon

BTW, any advice for good analog or stepped attenuator (I want something very high-end).
  I am using a simple ALPS in my passive preamp (analog one).
   
  goldpoint is a good step-up from ALPS or something better ?
   
  It's a simple stereo attenuator (10k). I don't want too much step ... 21 is more than enough for me.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Kinda strange to me. Hi-end but not many steps?
  DACT is one good and popular choice which has the steps you need.


----------



## Beefy

Quote: 





pompon said:


> Every parts have it's own importance.
> 
> If you have speakers permitting bi-wire (2 terminals) and you don't using them bi-wired or bi-amp,  you have a jumper installed. Try just to bypass the stock jumper using your own cables as jumper. You will hear the difference. It's only 2 inch of cable and it's have an audible impact.


 


 Yeah, I've heard the sorts of absolute crap you believe in before, pompon.


----------



## les_garten

FYI
   
  I called PCX and asked about stocking and availability and this is what I got back:
   
  [size=x-small]Hello Les,[/size]
   
  [size=x-small]Our first LARGE shipment will be here mid-October.....[/size]
   
  [size=x-small]I do have 1 pc. of 100K stereo in stock...right now....let me know.[/size]


----------



## pompon

Quote: 





beefy said:


> Yeah, I've heard the sorts of absolute crap you believe in before, pompon.


 
  It's a good news ... you are able to hear something.


----------



## wink

I wonder if colour-blind people really believe that we can see all those different colours...........................
  I also know that some people who can't hear differences in cables don't believe that others can.............
   
  The real worry is that those who can't hear what others can are so adamant that the ones who can are deluded.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





wink said:


> I wonder if colour-blind people really believe that we can see all those different colours...........................
> I also know that some people who can't hear differences in cables don't believe that others can.............
> 
> The real worry is that those who can't hear what others can are so adamant that the ones who can are deluded.


 

 EDITED to avoid further Goofiness...


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> 1)  The really cheap, poorly made cables that come with low end audio gear that have poor connectors and wire, and zero RF and EMI rejection.  Throw away's.


 
   
  What exactly is wrong with the connectors and wire? And how do you figure they have zero RFand EMI rejection. Most all of them are of a coaxial geometry with a served shield. Are you saying that coaxial cables have zero RF and EMI rejection?
   
  se


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> What exactly is wrong with the connectors and wire? And how do you figure they have zero RFand EMI rejection. Most all of them are of a coaxial geometry with a served shield. Are you saying that coaxial cables have zero RF and EMI rejection?
> 
> se


 


 I'm not going to pursue this very far with you because you basically are a "crap stirrer"
   
  I will clarify this one point and that's it.
   
  I was referring to REALLY low end stuff that nobody in this forum would use.  Definitely not COAX in geometry.  Maybe you've never bought gear that had THIS level of Junk included.  I had some so bad I thought it generated it's own hum...
   
  My apologies for my above post.  It is off topic, and I subscribe to so many threads I forgot where I was.
   
  I don't want my post to be a sub thread, so I may just delete it. I usually subscribe to the "once laid, it's played" philosophy to posts.  But I don't want to derail this thread about the Polish POTs.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> I'm not going to pursue this very far with you because you basically are a "crap stirrer"


 

 Yes, that's what I'm usually called by those who can't defend their own claims, just as you're unable to defend your claims here.
   
  Quote: 





> I was referring to REALLY low end stuff that nobody in this forum would use.  Definitely not COAX in geometry.  Maybe you've never bought gear that had THIS level of Junk included.


 
   
  I've got a box here that has several dozens of "giveaway" cables that I've accumulated over the years that have came from everything from halfway decent DVD players to the cheapest no-name plastic junk from China.
   
  Every last one of them is coaxial.
   
  That's because the cables are intended to be made cheaply. And a coaxial construction is the cheapest way of doing it. It also allows for the cables to have a smaller diameter. Just take a wire with a thin insulation on it, wrap a served shield around it and then extrude the jacket over it. Simple and cheap.
   
  If you can show me a set of cheapie giveaway interconnects that aren't coaxial, I'll pay you $50 for them.
   
  Quote: 





> I had some so bad I thought it generated it's own hum...


 
   
  Your hum problem was more likely due to ground loop issues. The cheapie cables use rather small gauge wire which has more resistance which means the voltage drop across it due to interchassis leakage currents will be greater.
   
  se


----------



## Takaji

Yeah, let's try and keep this thread to the Khozmo Attenuators, please.
   
  If anyone needs information on ordering from them, I ordered a pot from them a few months back and posted some pictures here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/takaji/sets/72157624516868804/
  My experience with Khozmo was excellent, and I'd recommend them to anyone.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





takaji said:


> Yeah, let's try and keep this thread to the Khozmo Attenuators, please.


 

 Fair 'nuff.
   
  So has anyone bought one of the surface mount units?
   



   
  se


----------



## wink

Steve Eddy posted:-
   
   
  Quote: 





> So has anyone bought one of the surface mount units?


 
  On the website it doesnt allow it yet.
  http://www.khozmo.com/products_smd.html
   
  The one i bought has the ability to buy via paypal.
  http://www.khozmo.com/products_dale_ladder.html


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





wink said:


> Steve Eddy posted:-
> 
> 
> On the website it doesnt allow it yet.
> ...


 

 Yeah. Though the last EMail I got from Arek, he said he made both types. When I replied asking for a dimensional drawing of the surface mount version, I never heard back from him again.
   
  se


----------



## johnwmclean

Does anybody know or have any data in regards to product measurements?
   
  The attenuator has a fixed size from the base (of stand-offs) to the centre shaft, unlike a dact or other round designs that can float. That’s the data I’m after.


----------



## jjinh

Quote: 





johnwmclean said:


> Does anybody know or have any data in regards to product measurements?
> 
> The attenuator has a fixed size from the base (of stand-offs) to the centre shaft, unlike a dact or other round designs that can float. That’s the data I’m after.


 

 Have you asked Erwin? He does have one in his possession.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote: 





jjinh said:


> Have you asked Erwin? He does have one in his possession.


 

 thanks jjinh, Erwin was around the other week showing it off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, it did look awesome.
   
  I’ll ask him to give his caliper a work out if there’s no manufacturers data is available, I’ve emailed khozmo directly as well...


----------



## jjinh

Quote: 





johnwmclean said:


> thanks jjinh, Erwin was around the other week showing it off
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Their website is pretty empty.
   
  I could only find product measurement for one of their pots - unfortunately it's not the one you were looking for
  www.khozmo.com/techdraw/smd_2_ladder.pdf


----------



## les_garten

If they are not answering pre-sales questions, you still have to wonder about their delivery unfortunately.


----------



## wink

Quote: 





> If they are not answering pre-sales questions, you still have to wonder about their delivery unfortunately.


 
   Their delivery is no problem.
  All the people who order one seem to have no problem with delivery or feedback.
  All those who ask before buying seem to be treated like tyre kickers.
  Not a good sales policy, but he does deliver.
   
  John, will send you the dimensions when I get a chance.
  I'm on another computer away from home atm. and have serious broadband issues at home. Over 15 minutes to bring up a google screen. Dial-up was a lot faster than that...


----------



## johnwmclean

Thanks Ewin, no rush, check out the attached pdf, these are the measurements I’d like A - K.
   
  I’ll re-post them up here so any one that wants measurements can have them.
   
   


  Click to enlarge.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





			
				wink said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Their delivery is no problem.
> ...


 
   
   
  How big is that Universe?


----------



## wink

Quote: 





> How big is that Universe?


 
   Not too big at present, I guess,
  But as more people like you buy off him, it will expand exponentially.
  And the tyre kickers and toe-wetters will get exceedingly frustrated with the lack of feedback.
  Toe -wetters being those who want all sorts of info before taking the plunge and purchasing one of these sonic delights......


----------



## wink

[size=9pt]Dimensions:[/size]
  [size=9pt]

[/size]
   
  [size=9pt]A: About that long.[/size]
  [size=9pt]B: Somewhat shorter than A.[/size]
  [size=9pt]C: Infinitely short horizontally, about half of what B is horizontally, but vertically.[/size]
  [size=9pt]D: A bit longer than B horizontally abd the same as A and B vertically.[/size]
  [size=9pt]E: Round about twice C vertically but the same horizontally.[/size]
  [size=9pt]F:  Dunno[/size]
  [size=9pt]G: Ditto[/size]
  [size=9pt]H: El Samo[/size]
  [size=9pt]I: The I’s have it[/size]
  [size=9pt]J: Like H but 90 degrees out of phase.[/size]
  [size=9pt]K: Less than D but more than I.[/size]
  [size=9pt]L: To L with it.[/size]
   
   
  [size=9pt]Will supply real metric measurements soon……. [/size]


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





			
				wink said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Not too big at present, I guess,
> ...


 
   
   
  I'm scared to buy off them.
   
  I can't afford to toss $300 down a Rathole.
   
  I have some problems with a company that won't answer a pre-sales question, IME these types of companies(those who don't communicate well)   don't improve their performance normally after they have your cash.
   
  Usually the best they will be is before they have your cash.  I would have to see a solid _*"Positive track record" *_before sending cash there.  They have a track record, but it ain't positive.
   
  I keep hopin'...
   
  Pre-sales specs and questions on this type of gear seems something you would expect to have to deal with.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote: 





wink said:


> [size=9pt]Dimensions:[/size]
> [size=9pt]
> 
> [/size]
> ...


 

 Thanks Erwin, the company got back to me - but it would still be good to cross reference with your measurements, when you can find a serious moment
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  Quote: 





les_garten said:


> I'm scared to buy off them.
> 
> I can't afford to toss $300 down a Rathole.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Les I got an answers to my dimensions query within a couple of hours.


----------



## les_garten

That's better news. 
   

  
  Quote: 





johnwmclean said:


> Thanks Erwin, the company got back to me - but it would still be good to cross reference with your measurements, when you can find a serious moment
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## johnwmclean

Here’s the dimensions for mono-stereo and quad attenuators.  The new model has ready mounting with one screw.


----------



## wink

A: 89mm
  B: 70mm
  C: 25.5mm to the bottom of the resistors. No stand-offs, as the picture in post above shows.
  D: 71mm. No extension of PC board as picture above shows. Shaft sits proud of back by a mm.
  E: 47mm. To the bottom of resistors. The pic above shows 45mm, but that is to the PC board and doesn't include the resistors mounted in it.
  F: 42mm
  G: 2.5mm
  H: 5.5mm
  I: 31mm
  J: 9.5mm
  K: N/A. No stand-offs.
  Shaft is 6mm dia.
  Mounting hole for unut is 9mm.
   
  Hope this helps.


----------



## johnwmclean

Thanks that’s great!


----------



## johnwmclean

I just bought a quad deck, communication with Arek has been great...


----------



## wink

Did you get it with Caddock input resistors like mine or pay extra for Vishay nakeds ?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote: 





johnwmclean said:


> Here’s the dimensions for mono-stereo and quad attenuators.  The new model has ready mounting with one screw.


 
  Do you know what colorful resistors are those, John? Seems like some carbon AB there but I'm not a 100% sure.


----------



## johnwmclean

He uses Vishay/Dale RN55’s, the one’s in that pic I don’t have a clue. Khozmo should really update their website with some product photography that reflects the final product, very annoying... I agonised over this “risk” purchase, but lately there’s been some positive feedback, Im keeping fingers and toes crossed.
   
  Erwin, I got the Caddocks.


----------



## Lil' Knight

That's what I thought too. I've seen some variations of his creations floating around. Seriously thinking of getting a quad, now that pcx is ending its 20% sale soon


----------



## johnwmclean

Well... I picked it up for $250... shipped!


----------



## Lil' Knight

Directly from Arek? 
   
  edit: Never mind that. Pulled the trigger on a quad 50k and a set of upgraded resistors. I'm weak.


----------



## les_garten

Outstanding!
   
  That will be 2 more data points to use to assess the company with.
   
  Hope everything works out great for you guys!
   
  Then we'll have a reliable source for what appears to be a nice piece of gear.


----------



## les_garten

What resistors did you order with?
  
  Quote: 





lil' knight said:


> Directly from Arek?
> 
> edit: Never mind that. Pulled the trigger on a quad 50k and a set of upgraded resistors. I'm weak.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I went with the Caddock USF340s. Their specs are pretty amazing but not as expensive as the Vishay Z-foil.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Another data point for y'all. I purchased a Khozmo 50K unit from Parts Connexion and installed it in my modified DNA Sonett, just last evening. 
   
  PROS:

 Fast shipping from Parts Connexion (took advantage of the 20% discount; sorry if you missed it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
 Excellent build quality and machining, very solid  
 Excellent balance (obviously)
 Rock solid imaging; soundstage specificity is excellent
 Transparency, detail, clarity 
 The first eleven 2db steps are excellent for those with high efficiency IEM's -- it's easy to find a sweet spot
   
  CONS:

 This one is TIGHT, especially compared to the DACT! Is there any way to loosen it up? Sheeze! 
 Due to the switching mechanism being so TIGHT, you can sometimes hear a light "ping" from the 6H30. It might be a good idea--at least in a tube design--to mechanically isolate the switch from the chassis  
   
   
  OBSERVATIONS:

 The mounting shaft diameter is 9mm, so some modification may be required if you're moving from an Alps
 For whatever reason, variations in recording levels between CD's are more pronounced; I find myself adjusting the POT more frequently when switching between recordings
 Light switch noise can be heard during the music when moving between detents; even though this is a make before break design, it makes some light noise, albeit not all the time; my DACT did the same thing. A firm grip helps during rotation. Again, it's not an issue for me, but just to let users know
 I may switch the input resistor to the nude Vishay, but wanted to get familiar with the sound signature of the Caddock MK-132 before making too many changes


----------



## les_garten

Great Review, Thanx!
   
  How does the "tightness" feel.
   
  I had a chance to feel one of the cheap Chinese steppers.  It was stiff feeling and the switches felt like metal scraping on metal.  Not real smooth feeling.  I would summarize it as feeling like crap!  How does yours feel compared to this?
   
  It was also easy to switch it halfway between steps also by turning slowly.  That made it do strange things.
   
  Maybe we can see if the company can lighten the feel?


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Subjectively, it has a quality feel about it. It reminds me of something that comes from a military component. I don't sense any metal on metal or grinding. Also, there is no getting "between" steps, or a sense that you could get high centered. Maybe it's because there are 48 steps, making the overall rotation distance between detents smaller. Switching seems positive.
   
  I think your descriptor "stiff" is more accurate than tight, although that fits too. Hopefully, after a few hours of use it will loosen up. 
   
  Quote: 





les_garten said:


> Great Review, Thanx!
> 
> How does the "tightness" feel.
> 
> ...


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





rdr. seraphim said:


> Subjectively, it has a quality feel about it. It reminds me of something that comes from a military component. I don't sense any metal on metal or grinding. Also, there is no getting "between" steps, or a sense that you could get high centered. Maybe it's because there are 48 steps, making the overall rotation distance between detents smaller. Switching seems positive.
> 
> I think your descriptor "stiff" is more accurate than tight, although that fits too. Hopefully, after a few hours of use it will loosen up.


 


  Thanx!  This sounds very interesting!  Nice Overview!


----------



## johnwmclean

Thanks Rdr. Seraphim.
   
  I’d also like to add the weight and diameter of the knob will also attribute to the overall feel.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





johnwmclean said:


> Thanks Rdr. Seraphim.
> 
> I’d also like to add the weight and diameter of the knob will also attribute to the overall feel.


 


  True, this would demand a big heavy knob fo sho!


----------



## Lil' Knight

Big knob + tight/stiff fitting = satisfaction


----------



## rds

Quote: 





lil' knight said:


> Big knob + tight/stiff fitting = satisfaction


 


 that's what she said


----------



## qusp

man, these sexy beasts have me inventing ideas for builds that might include one instead of using my usual digital volume. perhaps my Jfet circlotron


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Ok, she's... err, the attenuator is loosening up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Either that, or I'm getting used to a firm grip. 
   
   
  Now, I'm considering the "naked" Vishay.


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





rdr. seraphim said:


> Ok, she's... err, the attenuator is loosening up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Glad to hear it's wearing in.
   
   
  Wouldn't the Vishay's add an outrageous amount of $$$ to the attenuator?


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

The "naked/nude" vishay is only used in the shunt position, so in my case only two are required. Michael Percy has a 49.9K for about $14 each. Partsconnexion has a 47K for around $18 each. So, yes, they are expensive, as resistors go!


----------



## les_garten

Quote: 





rdr. seraphim said:


> The "naked/nude" vishay is only used in the shunt position, so in my case only two are required. Michael Percy has a 49.9K for about $14 each. Partsconnexion has a 47K for around $18 each. So, yes, they are expensive, as resistors go!


 


  Heh!  OK, that makes a lot more sense!


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote: 





rdr. seraphim said:


> The "naked/nude" vishay is only used in the shunt position, so in my case only two are required. Michael Percy has a 49.9K for about $14 each. Partsconnexion has a 47K for around $18 each. So, yes, they are expensive, as resistors go!


 

 The ones from Percy and PCX are actually a little bit different. PCX has the latest 2575 version.
   
  Also, does anyone has the latest pic of the quad Khozmo?


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Hmm not yet but I ordered one about a week ago ;p


----------



## johnwmclean

I expect mine any day, I’m hovering impatiently around the letterbox...


----------



## Lil' Knight

Please post some pics. I tried to dig deep but couldn't find the latest pic of the quad. He just has a lot of variations.


----------



## qusp

Quote: 





> The ones from Percy and PCX are actually a little bit different. PCX has the latest 2575 version.


 
  actually no, michael just doesnt update his catalogue very often, he does indeed have the original TX2350 in some values, but he also has the TX2575 if you ask
   
  you can also buy much higher degree of matching than is available at either of the vendors if you buy direct and you can specify precisely the value you want, so if you are buying 0.005% global match at about $14USD each, you can buy 50K exactly, or if you like, 63K03R0 and then quad relative match to the same 0.005% degree $$$$ haha. there are also 1206 size SMD naked ASMP series Zfoils, like these I bought for an experimental sabre IV, if you look closely you'll notice they are EXACTLY the same, looks kinda freaky. I wasnt actually expecting naked SMDs, but it seems the folks at TXC do not like their resistors with clothes. I cant say I was disappointed when I opened the box  $14 a pop for 0.02% match though, anyone feel like filling a series pot with them?
   
   
   
   

   
  I do wish they would settle on a design for this thing though, i'm considering it for my balanced hotrod DCB1


----------



## Lil' Knight

Of course you must ask for the 2575. I was talking about the ones in his catalog. Last time I ordered the nudes from him, I was originally thought I'd receive the 2575, but turned out I got the 2350.


----------



## Lil' Knight

There you go:
   

   

   

   
  Mine should be shipped tomorrow. Can't wait to get my hands on this baby.


----------



## johnwmclean

ooooh nice, Tran did you order from Khozmo or PXC?
  I ordered through Khozmo it should have shipped on the 18th... no contact to say otherwise.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I finally ordered from Khozmo because pcx doesn't stock the 50K and I have to wait 3 weeks for the stock, and then another 3 weeks to ship to me. I just paid Arek yesterday and was told it would be shipped tomorrow. Hopefully what he said is true.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

I also ordered from khozmo and was told it was shipped on the 22nd or so.  No sign of it yet but I hope to have it soon...


----------



## Lil' Knight

Well, I was promised that the pot would be shipped by standard airmail on Friday last week but somehow they missed that because the post office closed. Today I got the tracking number from them, shipped by FedEx, which means I should receive it within a couple of days. Needless to say, I'm impressed by this. They did have some complaints about the customer service in the past, but hopefully this will change soon.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Just got the pot. Ridiculously well-built and heavy. Easily the nicest pot I've ever seen. She's tight and huge! Really can't wait to put her into my new amp.


----------



## johnwmclean

Now how the hell did you get yours first! Mine shipped on the 20th, no sign yet... looks great though!
  How are you going to solder the ouputs? Directly to the jumper pins?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Mine was shipped by FedEx, which explains a transit time.
  Yeah, I think soldering directly to the pads is the only way. The holes are too shallow to put the Molex connectors into. Somehow I prefer his old design with Molex connectors on the rear, which would be much easier and neater to do the wiring job.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Uh, that's one BIG knob! Will you be upgrading the MK132 shunt resistors? (The "naked" Vishay's shipped yesterday, along with a new solid brass Audio Note knob.)


----------



## Lil' Knight

Yeah sure I'll upgrade those Caddock resistors but not now tho, still trying to fund for other stuffs. That knob might be big but still pretty light (made of aluminum). I'm having my friend make a bigger and much heavier stainless steel one.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Curse you and your fed ex  my free air mail is taking forever! :O


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

I'm hoping that the chrome plated, solid brass Audio Note knob provides a bit more of a flywheel effect for easier rotation. I think the larger diameter will help too. 
  
  Quote: 





lil' knight said:


> Yeah sure I'll upgrade those Caddock resistors but not now tho, still trying to fund for other stuffs. That knob might be big but still pretty light (made of aluminum). I'm having my friend make a bigger and much heavier stainless steel one.


----------



## Lil' Knight

@BeBobMcJiggy: I'm sorry to let you know that my FedEx was free too  It should arrive anytime though; the pot is just plain awesome and worth every penny (and wait). I just love how he machines the aluminum.
   
   
  Solid brass does have nice feeling, I have a couple and they all feel great. Did you get the knob from pcx?
  Larger diameter would be great as long as it fits your front panel. I'm thinking of having a 15mm thick front panel made, so a huge, heavy knob to match is a must for me. The pot is still very stiff, if the knob is too light-weight, it might be hard to rotate. Maybe my hand is too weak (or the shaft is quite short) but it took me quite a bit of strength to turn some first steps.
  Quote: 





rdr. seraphim said:


> I'm hoping that the chrome plated, solid brass Audio Note knob provides a bit more of a flywheel effect for easier rotation. I think the larger diameter will help too.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Ya, I'm hoping the extra weight (rotational mass) will help offset the stiff mechanism. Yes, to PCX ($16 US). The diameter is roughly the same as the outer diameter of the tapered knob originally supplied by Donald on his Sonett (which is Al). 
   
  If I rotate the attenuator too quickly, I still get a "ping" on the outputs (from the 6H30 on the Sonett), so just a heads-up for those planning to use this on a tube based amp/preamp.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote: 





rdr. seraphim said:


> If I rotate the attenuator too quickly, I still get a "ping" on the outputs (from the 6H30 on the Sonett), so just a heads-up for those planning to use this on a tube based amp/preamp.


 
  Interesting. I'm not sure if I would get into this 'problem' because my DAC has 6dj8 output.


----------



## wink

Quote: 





> Now how the hell did you get yours first! Mine shipped on the 20th, no sign yet... looks great though!


 
   Things are S-L-O-W. Especially around this silly season.
  I have a parcel that cleared customs at 11:56am on the 4th, Almost 2 days, but no further progress.
  They must have a mountain of mail/parcels to wade through.
  It usually gets to the next step after customs pretty rapidly.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Ok, size and mass helped ease some of the stiff feeling. Picked up a solid brass, matt chrome Audio Note knob from PCX: http://www.partsconnexion.com/KNOBS-74249.html


----------



## Lil' Knight

If only they had larger diameter one. 30mm is a little small for my need.


----------



## qusp

yeah the ANOTE knobs are nice, but are realy too small for a volume knob IMO. I have 2 of them bought for that purpose, but after I got them I decided if anything they might be used at some point for a selector, as they arent big enough and there isnt enough leverage . I got those custom titanium ones made anyway and made sure to get them huge. these pots really are teh sex!! keen to try yours at the next GTG John


----------



## johnwmclean

Got it today, very very nice, but compared to my dact’s it feels so stiff between steps. But... in it goes!
   

   
  Quote: 





qusp said:


> keen to try yours at the next GTG John


 

 Your welcome mate, I’ve also got some AN knobs on order...but yeah this stepper needs some serious weight and diameter to smooooth out those clicks. Pity my front panel is complete, I would have changed the size for sure.


----------



## johnwmclean

FWIW two off my steps 4 & 5 measure bad.
   
  Step 4
  Channels 1-3 are 302ohm channel 4 is 177ohm
   
  Step 5
  Channels 1-3 are 431ohm channel 4 is 178ohm.
   
  ...the rest measure perfectly, as this is only 4-5 steps into a gain 2 beta22 it won’t be an issue, but I urge everyone to take readings.
   
  EDIT: After installing the attenuator and using it for a couple of hours, I measured every step again, this time every was in specified tolerances.
  I can’t explain why it didn’t measure properly before installing, I didn’t take it apart, it’s a mystery to me.


----------



## nikongod

Shock-absorbing shaft coupler FTW!
   
  Sorry to hear that the stepper dosnt measure right.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Dang. Never thought about measuring the attenuator, but it's a good idea. We always assume finished products are "Ok." How would that come across during operation? Clearly, there's an impedance mismatch. 
  
  Quote: 





johnwmclean said:


> FWIW two off my steps 4 & 5 measure bad.
> 
> Step 4
> Channels 1-3 are 302ohm channel 4 is 177ohm
> ...


----------



## Lil' Knight

Ah, I never bother checking that too.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Quote: 





rdr. seraphim said:


> Dang. Never thought about measuring the attenuator, but it's a good idea. We always assume finished products are "Ok." How would that come across during operation? Clearly, there's an impedance mismatch.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  The one channel wouldn't change volume again until step 6 
   
  Sounds like there is a solder bridge or something is it possible to take it apart at all?


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *BebopMcJiggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Sounds like there is a solder bridge or something is it possible to take it apart at all?


 

 I really don’t want to take this apart, I wouldn’t know where to look...  if the mismatch is only over a couple of steps in the first sixth of the attenuator I’ll be fine.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Fair enough, I ordered one about a day after you that I am still waiting on :O  I am hopeful that it will arrive today.  I am having my roof redone though so I hope the giant tarp bubble over my house and workers throwing shingles off the roof won't discourage the delivery men too much.  If I have the same problem I probably will tear mine apart heh or at least attempt to.  I'll let you know how it goes (possibly, certainly not going to do it just for fun).  Then again I don't really know how the whole rectangular prism is put together, if it is too much of a hassle I wouldn't take it apart either.  But I'd be willing to unscrew the back at least ;p
   
  It would be fairly easy to know where to look though, just check which resistors are the first 5 steps (if it is visible on the side you should be able to figure out from the values on the resistors)
   
  It is my assumption that if it is output 4 that is messed up then it is the set of resistors closest to the rear  and therefore potentially the easiest to fix.
   
  Can't your shaft coupler bend space and time to correct this problem for you?!


----------



## johnwmclean

I’ll not as brave as you Bebop, it does make sense from what your saying, channel 4 being directly accessible from the rear. It’s not possible to tell from the outside resistor values, as the codes are facing inwards over these two positions (just my luck) and my meter probes can’t gain access.
  ...the thing is it’s likely to be resistor values, and that would go straight to the too hard basket, therefore the contemplation of opening the back is futile. 
   
  The coupler does do some amazing bending tricks, though, you’d be amazed. lol.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Well poop.  It arrived today but was sent registered mail and the post office was closed by the time I got home from work ;(


----------



## johnwmclean

Pads really don’t accommodate multiply wires, I had some left over pins and wire and did a little point to point tying the grounds together.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Are the screws in the bottom m3?  I picked mine up at the post office okay and it has measured okay for the steps I checked :O
  Unfortunately I think the first 5 steps are below the bottom plate.  But I guess it doesn't bother you :O towards the back of each set of resistors is the gnd and if there were to be a solder bridge it would be on the side of the resistors towards the front but again... I am pretty sure the first 5 steps are below the base plate.  I am slightly confused as one of my corners jumps from 8k to 22 ohms. Where the resistors then proceed in order of my steps, but I have steps < 22 ohms and I don't think the step before 22 measured 8k :O so I'm not 100% sure how that works but c'est la vie.  I'll measure again when I get home, trying to do 1 step at a time with my bare hands is starting to hurt my thumb, and I should really be working...
   
  Why do you need 2 of every ground while they are shorted together like that? 
   
  I take it the pads on the far side of the input resistor are connected?  If so I wonder why they bothered running the leads the whole distance to the labeled out/gnd pads initially.
   
  I do like the build quality on mine so far... kind of stiff but not really much stiffer than my last attenuators.  I don't suppose you've measured the dimensions for the screw holes on the bottom that you are dying to share with me so I can be lazy? :O


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Just swapped in the "naked" Vishay's (http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_vishay_var.html) in the Khozmo. Anyone else tried these in their kits?


----------



## Lil' Knight

How do the nudies sound?


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote: 





bebopmcjiggy said:


> Why do you need 2 of every ground while they are shorted together like that?


 
   
  This is going into a two box balanced Beta22 build, AMB explicitly explain to tie all input and output ground to chassis.
   

   
  For this build thats 2 inputs, 2 outputs (preamp), 4 outputs (each Beta22 board) all tied to chassis ground.


----------



## wink

My Khozmo checks out very well.
  All steps within tolerance......
   
  Perhaps there is a bit of resistor mixing in Khozmo's inventory.....


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Quote: 





johnwmclean said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  But connecting one to chassis connects them all, you don't need to tie every one to each other and also to chassis ground do you?  Mine is also a 2 box b22 I am pretty sure, that he (AMB) says "

by *amb* » January 9th, 2011, 8:25 pm
 [size=1.3em] Ideally you should have signal ground connected to the chassis in one place only to avoid a ground loop (assuming a two-box configuration). So you should isolate one or the other. But if there is no hum/noise then don't worry about it.[/size]

 [size=1.3em] EDIT: I just noticed you said JT's relay _driver_ board. It appears that the ground plane on that board is "digital ground", not signal ground, then the ground loop I was describing will not occur. So you could safely leave things as is."[/size]

 [size=1.3em] Admittedly this post was not exactly talking about the same thing but it was dealing with a B22 and signal gnd.  In any event as I was getting at, especially if your inputs and outputs are already connected to the chassis (by lack of isolation washer, probably unlikely in a balanced build) there is no need to do more.  Even as you have it I am certain tying any one of those to the chassis is good enough by itself as they are all shorted to each other they will all be connected to chassis.  But it is unimportant as he says, no hum don't worry [/size]

 [size=1.3em]  [/size]

 [size=1.3em] Also (MY DAMNED FONT IS MESSED UP FROM CUT AND PASTE SORRY) I still think it is more likely that there is a solder bridge or some kind of short than that they messed up 3 resistors in a row, in the same way, on only one channel like that.[/size]


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Yeah uhh not trying to tell you how to do your build or anything... just curious if I have been wiring my own amps incorrectly is all.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote: 





bebopmcjiggy said:


> Yeah uhh not trying to tell you how to do your build or anything... just curious if I have been wiring my own amps incorrectly is all.


 


  No worries, you could do this multiply ways though... no right or wrong as long as the connection is secure.


----------



## murrays

johnwmclean said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Generally you should only connect to chassis ground at one point to avoid multiple paths. If it is specified to connect input grounds and output grounds to the chassis, that is fine: but don't do it anywhere else. Remember that incorrect connecting up of ground points can cause undesired noise and hum currents to flow. Each bank of the attenuator is really a separate device (but physically linked) - no need to electrically connect them. Personally, in your configuration above I would not not connect the attenuator "grounds" together (unless explicitly specified by the designer). At least reserve the right to try it both ways! Grounding is a complicated topic and all the preceding is very much from my own experience.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

I don't disagree... but there are only 2 total input grounds regardless, unless it is being used to route 4 unbalanced channels instead of 2 balanced channels maybe...  Mine are separated by right and left still  but yes I try to avoid attaching to chassis at multiple points.


----------



## johnwmclean

Thanks guys... I’m positive input and output ground connect to chassis (configuration is a two box beta22 build), whether the attenuator being tied as I’ve done is a problem, I’ll check with the designer.


----------



## qusp

John, I dont see any problem the way you have done it, multiple paths to ground refers to multiple devices that could be at different potentials because they are coming from different components or different power supplies. in your case all should be at the same potential so there wont be a problem.


----------



## johnwmclean

Jeremy, that makes sense thanks for clarifying mate.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Mahvalous! Y'all with balanced designs, I'm sorry for your wallets, 'cause you'll need four of these rather expensive parts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  
  Quote: 





lil' knight said:


> How do the nudies sound?


----------



## murrays

qusp said:


> John, I dont see any problem the way you have done it, multiple paths to ground refers to multiple devices that could be at different potentials because they are coming from different components or different power supplies. In your case all should be at the same potential so there wont be a problem.



The same holds true inside the cabinet: think of the separate channel boards as "different components". It is better to keep them isolated from each other. The ground potential is *generally* the same, but due to real-world currents (micro-amperes) and resistances (milliohms) there is always a difference at the millivolt/microvolt level. Whenever you run a wire between two ground points you are likely to get some sort of signal on it, due to current flow. If there is no current flowing at all then it is possibly redundant (exception: electrical safety earth). That is why the need to differentiate between electrical earth, chassis ground, power ground and signal ground. I have probably had to spend more time on getting grounding issues sorted out than anything else on the few amps that I have built.


----------



## qusp

yeah of course, I realize that mate, but since the boards should be star grounded anyway I really dont see there being an issue. might want to check input ground potential against output ground just to be safe, but I dont see a problem. I wouldnt make this as a general statement for any build though with the B22 being that input signal ground will only be used for single ended connections (and John doesnt have any of those AFAIK) its less of an issue, well 'shouldnt' be an issue at all.
   
  in fact you might consider this as a secondary star ground, I tend to separately star ground power, signal, chassis/shields and digital before they converge, so maybe treat the pot as your signal star ground point john so its not duplicated? just to cover all bases


----------



## murrays

qusp said:


> in fact you might consider this as a secondary star ground, I tend to separately star ground power, signal, chassis/shields and digital before they converge, so maybe treat the pot as your signal star ground point john so its not duplicated? just to cover all bases



John has already established that the grounds are connected via the chassis at the input connectors. Adding extra ground couplings between the two channels would not be star grounding. The designer will have chosen the optimal point for the star ground to avoid unnecessary currents and noise. You'd really only want to change that to address a specific problem.


----------



## qusp

the designer has also specified to connect the input and output grounds at the pot and not connecting the 2 sides of the pot for isolation sake and then star grounding them seems a bit pointless to me. AFAIK John does not have any SE signal source or headphones (not one he is designing for anyway unless hes gone vinyl since we last spoke and even then) or any single ended outputs on his beta22. so givem all the boartds are star grounded and all signal in and out is balanced, can you tell me what meaningful currents will be made to flow by this connection? capacitively coupled crosstalk perhaps? or have you now shifted your argument to argue with me about ideal star grounding of the shield connections?
   
  i'm just making suggestions here; but i'll leave it to the experts....


----------



## murrays

qusp said:


> the designer has also specified to connect the input and output grounds at the pot and not connecting the 2 sides of the pot for isolation sake and then star grounding them seems a bit pointless to me. AFAIK John does not have any SE signal source or headphones (not one he is designing for anyway unless hes gone vinyl since we last spoke and even then) or any single ended outputs on his beta22. so givem all the boartds are star grounded and all signal in and out is balanced, can you tell me what meaningful currents will be made to flow by this connection? capacitively coupled crosstalk perhaps? or have you now shifted your argument to argue with me about ideal star grounding of the shield connections?
> 
> i'm just making suggestions here; but i'll leave it to the experts....



No, I'm fine with that. Not looking for an argument here, just making sure my point was clear.
If I go any further, I will be in over my head.


----------



## johnwmclean

Some more feedback,
   
  After installing the attenuator and using it for a couple of hours, I measured every step again, this time every was within specified tolerances. 
   
  I can’t explain why it didn’t measure properly before installing, I didn’t take it apart to check either, it’s a mystery to me...
   
  The attenuator sounds wonderful, there’s no audible pops or ticks between steps unlike the dacts I’ve used, although the mechanism itself is loud. 
  I’m really happy with the Khozmo, it’s a real bargain when you consider how much work must go into producing these.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Great to hear your impression, John. Sadly I won't be able to try mine until next month, maybe a bit longer. The pot is indeed very nice and I'm thinking of getting a couple of stereo ones for the B22 and EHHA. It's also strange regarding your case of channel matching, but good hear it's all good now.
   
  It'd be great if they could offer custom service, like using different types of resistor. I've recently fallen in love with PRP stuffs and would love to have a quad, red Khozmo.


----------



## murrays

johnwmclean said:


> The attenuator sounds wonderful, there’s no audible pops or ticks between steps unlike the dacts I’ve used, although the mechanism itself is loud.
> I’m really happy with the Khozmo, it’s a real bargain when you consider how much work must go into producing these.



Do you get clicks and pops from Dacts? Isn't the CT2 supposed to have make-before-break contacts? I have been saving up for a Dact; that's one reason why I have been watching this thread to consider alternatives. The Khozmo looks like a good alternative, except that the higher torque requirement may be concerning.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote: 





murrays said:


> Do you get clicks and pops from Dacts? Isn't the CT2 supposed to have make-before-break contacts?


 

 The Dact CT2’s I use all have _*very minor*_ occasional pops between the steps upon rotation, never ever annoying but it’s audible. The Khozmo has no audible pops or clicks between steps or at least I haven’t heard any, but the mechanism is so bloody loud it’s ridiculous and very annoying, IMO the dact wins hands down for feel (much smoother) and is much much quieter overall. Although the Khozmo has 48 steps vs 24, it’s cheaper and the quality is great, from my brief listening time it does sound excellent. The safe bet is the Dact simply because it’s stood the test of time, it’s a well respected performer. Khozmo could be great too, they need to stand the test of time, I’ve got another 50,000 cycles more on the Khozmo before I form more opinions.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Quote: 





johnwmclean said:


> Some more feedback,
> 
> After installing the attenuator and using it for a couple of hours, I measured every step again, this time every was within specified tolerances.
> 
> ...


 

 It just had to be a short somehow :O but that is rather odd, I dunno maybe you had one of those washers slide up there when you put on the standoffs or something?
   
  Also, I really don't find it that hard to turn the knob, though I am using a fairly large sized solid metal knob on it.  But only like 30mm...  I quite like the feel of it actually.  It is a little loud but I doubt I'd be able to hear it with my case closed up and music playing...
   
  I think I am going to buy another.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote: 





bebopmcjiggy said:


> I dunno maybe you had one of those washers slide up there when you put on the standoffs or something?


 
   
  I’m particularly weary of flying washers, but you never know. lol. 
   
  mmm... even cased up mine is *very* annoyingly loud, maybe the extension shaft is contributing to the effect. I don’t mind the feel, it’s a good reason to take up weights.
   
  I’m sure it will be a fine performer, I’m not trying to put it down either, just some constructive thoughts and comparisons against the dact.


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Yeah I am not really sure about the volume of the turns to be honest, I haven't cased mine up or anything yet as I am trying to get some price quotes on a custom case and I wanted to put it in there.  Seemed like it would be a hassle to use it before then.   Maybe the noise is loud but I like the solid click so it does not register in my mind as being too loud...
   
  It really is not hard to turn mine at all with the knob on there... I will try adding the extension shaft I am going to use and see if that makes it any harder to use.  Turning it at work with my bare hands was kind of a nightmare but with the knob on I was not finding it difficult to turn.  Again this might be a product of it not actually being cased up, perhaps I am twisting with both hands making it seem easier.
   
  I'm not trying to disparage your comments on it either just noting that I am not finding it as difficult to turn as it seems you and others are.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

My DACT attenuators definitely made some low level clicking in my Quicksilver preamp. I would say from "memory" that the clicks from the Khozmo are similar but, certainly no worse. From experimentation, it almost always happens, but it's never objectionable.  
  
  Quote: 





murrays said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Anyone else tried the naked Vishay's? Any observations?


----------



## BebopMcJiggy

Unfortunately not... I am waiting on some other things to even use mine besides to be an expensive paperweight on my desk .  I suppose I could wire it up to my a20s for the time being... I would still need to get a transformer for their s22 though anyhow so waiting on things regardless :O


----------



## Lil' Knight

This thread demands new stuff


----------



## Beefy

I think we ALL need you to pull that baby apart to look at the innards.......


----------



## Lil' Knight

I'll try to give it a shot when I have some courage. 
This one is just great and has very, very nice feeling. After fooling around with it for some days, I think I prefer this to the square one with Dale resistors.


----------



## jdkJake

Lil' Knight, suddenly, my stereo version seems suddenly very small:
   

   

   
   
  Then again, size is relative I suppose....


----------



## Lil' Knight

Very nice! I have the stereo one too and it's just awesome. Are you going to put the pot near the rear? The wire leads look quite short to me.

Well, my quad is tiny when putting on this thing:


----------



## jdkJake

Whoa! That is indeed a beast! What amp is that? Your design? Looks to be some form of tube hybrid and VERY interesting.
   
  Not sure how I am going to mount the Khozmo. While I bought it for a particular build, I really bought it more to check it out and see if I can come back around to using a stepped attenuator. In the past, I had audio gear with them and could never seem to find the "right" setting. Maddening personal imperfection married to the quest for the perfect level always had me wanting a setting between those available. Hopefully, age has mellowed that obsession a bit.


----------



## Lil' Knight

It's the T2, an electrostatic amp by Dr Gilmore. Really a beast in all meanings.

With 48 steps, I think you'd be able to get fine adjustment for your need . I sometimes had difficulty to get to the desired listening level with the 24-step DACT but never got into that trouble with the Khozmo. It's really a piece of art. I don't know how many hours needed to assemble one like that.


----------



## johnwmclean

Very nice Tran, I knew you were crazy, but not T2 crazy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Your not using one of the doctors fine cases?


----------



## livewire

@LK - WOW! You are tackling  the T2!!!
  I'm impressed, please let us know when you get it working.
   
  BTW, how is your KGSSHV coming along?


----------



## Lil' Knight

johnwmclean said:


> Very nice Tran, I knew you were crazy, but not T2 crazy
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah, I really wanted to grasp the last chassis set but many things prevented that so I decided to do things on my own.

I'm quite behind from the KGSSHV project. Got the chassis done and the PSU up and running but still lazy to wire up everything together


----------



## ujamerstand

I thought you said it was going to be a 2 year project?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Yeah, and one and a half years to go


----------



## jdkJake

So I finally hooked up my Khozmo and gave it a test drive. I recently built a extremely small op amp-based amp called "The Wire". Normally, the amp is built balanced, but, I went singled ended so that I can specifically try out the khozmo.
   

   
  Yes, "The Wire" is extremely small! But, that's a topic for another thread.
   
  Initial impressions with the khozmo are very, very positive. This is the first stepped attenuator I have used whereas I do not feel I am lacking for steps at all (it has 48 steps). I can dial in just the right amount of attenuation desired. Every bit as precise as a standard, continuously variable potentiometer. At least for the range in which I am using it. Very nice indeed! Of course, I built "The Wire" with a gain of 2, so, that helps as the majority of the time is spent in the sweet spot where the steps are 1db apart (first 11 steps are 2db apart with the rest 1db apart).
   
  My main issue is the size. This thing is ginormous! (Is that really a word?). I could not case up the final amp as I measured wrong and it will not fit in the 2" tall hammond enclosure I bought for it! Oh, well.
   
  Anyway, I am very pleased. There is still a significant cost delta between this and a high-end TKD, which, I also like very, very much. Still, they are a good value for what you get. They are built like a tank, or at least this SMD version is built like a tank. I have no doubt this thing will outlive me!
   
  Closing shot, in test configuration hooked up to my gamma2 (not pictured):


----------



## Lil' Knight

Very nice stuff there. I haven't got chance to wire up the new Khozmo to my amp but your impressions make me happy.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Is he still only making those in "shunt" form?
   
  se


----------



## Lil' Knight

Yup, only shunt now.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Well hell. That sucks.
   
  And by shunt you mean they use a fixed series resistor and a switched shunt resistor, yes?
   
  se


----------



## jdkJake

Here is a drawing of their implementation:

http://www.partsconnexion.com/prod_pdf/Khozmo_install.pdf


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





jdkjake said:


> Here is a drawing of their implementation:
> 
> http://www.partsconnexion.com/prod_pdf/Khozmo_install.pdf


 

 Thanks. Yup. That's what I was afraid of. Pity he had to fall for the mythology of the "shunt" attenuator. It's such a beautiful unit otherwise (the round, surface mount version that is).
   
  se


----------



## Lil' Knight

steve eddy said:


> Well hell. That sucks.
> 
> And by shunt you mean they use a fixed series resistor and a switched shunt resistor, yes?
> 
> se




He told me that the ladder one has mechanical noise among the steps so he stopped making them.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





lil' knight said:


> He told me that the ladder one has mechanical noise among the steps so he stopped making them.


 
   
  That's weird.
   
  It making mechanical noise shouldn't have anything whatsoever to do with how the resistors are wired up. The mechanics would be identical in either case.
   
  se


----------



## jdkJake

steve eddy said:


> Thanks. Yup. That's what I was afraid of. Pity he had to fall for the mythology of the "shunt" attenuator. It's such a beautiful unit otherwise (the round, surface mount version that is).
> 
> se




Forgive my ignorance, but, what is the mythology surrounding a shunt attenuator? I take it you are not too fond of them?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





jdkjake said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but, what is the mythology surrounding a shunt attenuator? I take it you are not too fond of them?


 

 Shunt attenuators were borne of the wholly erroneous notion that the "signal path" comprises only the series elements in a circuit. Shunt elements aren't considered part of the "signal path" because they just go to ground typically.
   
  So based on this, the idea is that instead of using a whole bunch of expensive, high quality resistors, you use just one very high quality series resistor and then you can use lower quality resistors for the shunt portion because, according to the mythology, they're not in the "signal path" and therefore can have little or no effect on the signal.
   
  However nothing could be further from the truth.
   
  The SIGNAL is in fact the voltage drop across the SHUNT resistor(s) as a consequence of the current flowing through it/them. Which means that their quality is every bit as important, if not more so than the series resistor.
   
  In other words, a shunt attenuator ONLY makes sense within the context of the mythology about the "signal path." When you look at them in the context of how things really are, they make absolutely no sense at all and come with a couple of drawbacks that you don't have with a regular potentiometer style attenuator.
   
  First, because of the fixed series resistor, even with the attenuator turned all the way up, you're still left with some attenuation due to the voltage divider created between the fixed series resistor and the variable shunt resistor.
   
  Second, the input resistance changes depending on volume setting.
   
  You can eliminate both of those and get the same performance with a ladder type attenuator.
   
  se


----------



## jdkJake

Okay, I see your point. Thank you very much for the explanation.

In this case, I would assume, and I may be completely wrong, that with the SMD version the series resistors and the shunt resistors are probably of the same type and quality. so, that might be somewhat of a non-issue only to the point in that the resistors are more or less equivalent. In other words, it can get no better nor no worse as the components are equal. Whether that is good or bad is left to the listener I suppose.

If you will indulge me, why is the change of input resistance upon volume change an issue? Is that not the point?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





jdkjake said:


> If you will indulge me, why is the change of input resistance upon volume change an issue? Is that not the point?


 

 It really wouldn't be an issue for many, but for me, I use input transformers and I prefer to load my input transformers with their ideal load, and not have it change with volume setting.
   
  se


----------



## jdkJake

Ah, I see. Thanks.

Looks like I need to learn how a ladder attenuator works to understand how it avoids the change in resistance.

Off to the books....


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





jdkjake said:


> Ah, I see. Thanks.
> 
> Looks like I need to learn how a ladder attenuator works to understand how it avoids the change in resistance.
> 
> Off to the books....


 

 Just keep in mind that a ladder attenuator works fundamentally the exact same way as a potentiometer.
   
  se


----------



## PersonAE

My Reply to Steve Eddy is:
   
  I gave up long ago on active preamps and have been an enthusiast of passives for a long time and have owned quite a few of them as well as the plug-in attenuators and RCA jacks with a single resistor soldered in.  I presently own the finest passive preamp on the market, the Reference Line Preeminence II [RL].   Your statement on the sonic issues a shunt approach, which is what the RL uses "VOSA" don't exist:
   
_"First, because of the fixed series resistor, even with the attenuator turned all the way up, you're still left with some attenuation due to the voltage divider created between the fixed series resistor and the variable shunt resistor._
   
_Second, the input resistance changes depending on volume setting._
   
_You can eliminate both of those and get the same performance with a ladder type attenuator"_
   
  I know several RL owners that have given up expensive Convergent Audio Technoloy pre; First Sound active and passive preamps; Jeff Rowland etc. I don't know what you've been listening to and it's commendable that you do listen a lot but I would give the RL a listen before making up your mind.
   
  This is a hobby for me.  When the exploration and discovery stops so does the enjoyment and what else do I have to do between waiting for earthquakes and tropical storms.  I have read the entire post on Khozmo Atten. and found it interesting but I've ordered a pair of mono and plan to find out for myself.  Like anything else, you just can't throw parts in a box and expect them to produce magic.  I have tons of documentation on various approaches to passives using shunt.
   
  Just have fun, be glad we can all hear and think what it would be like if we couldn't.
  Best regards,


----------



## Iniamyen

I'll just leave this here:
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchoff%27s_voltage_law#Kirchhoff.27s_voltage_law_.28KVL.29


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





personae said:


> My Reply to Steve Eddy is:
> 
> Your statement on the sonic issues a shunt approach, which is what the RL uses "VOSA" don't exist:


 

 I didn't say anything about "sonic issues." I was simply speaking of the physical nature of the shunt type attenuator. What a particular individual's subjective experience is is another matter. You can say they sound great to you, and I'm sure that's your experience. But it doesn't change the facts of their physical nature.
   
  se


----------



## vvs_75

I really like this one. My BH custom knob way too heavy for the DACT to handle it.
  Is this the  latest version or you need to request with the wires? Their order page have no picture or option that I can see.  

  
  Quote: 





lil' knight said:


>


----------



## Lil' Knight

It is the latest version and the wires are soldered inside by them. You have to specify them the exact length you need when you order from them. For short wires, they will use solid silver wires; solid copper for longer ones.


----------



## vvs_75

[size=10pt]Just got mine today. The finish has few scuffs and imperfections, which is not big deal really. The shaft action is just right, not as tight as I expected and not as loose (smooth) as on DACT or [/size][size=10pt]GOLD[/size][size=10pt] point, which is a good thing. The mechanical steps clicks are firm and quieter than I thought they  would be. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]My wires about 30 " and they appears to be solid silver. The only problem there was no wiring diagram included, so have no idea which wires IN or OUT.[/size]
  [size=10pt] All in all I am quite happy with it for now, but have to wait a bit to actually see how it sounds. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt][/size]


----------



## pabbi1

What is the lead time for these?


----------



## jdkJake

vvs_75 said:


> The only problem there was no wiring diagram included, so have no idea which wires IN or OUT




I would still send an email to Arek at Khozmo to confirm, but, mine was wired:

BLUE- In
RED  - Out
BLACK - Gnd


----------



## jdkJake

pabbi1 said:


> What is the lead time for these?




They can give you an estimate if you drop them an email. It all depends on what you what and if they have everything in stock to make it. Mine took about a week or so prior to shipping. However, it took over two weeks after that to actually make it into my hands. I suspect it languished in customs, but, it is hard to pin point.


----------



## vvs_75

Thanks.
  Quote: 





jdkjake said:


> I would still send an email to Arek at Khozmo to confirm, but, mine was wired:
> 
> BLUE- In
> RED  - Out
> BLACK - Gnd


----------



## vvs_75

Quote: 





pabbi1 said:


> What is the lead time for these?


 


 Mine time was about two weeks total from paid to delivered.


----------



## vvs_75

Few more pics to compare the size between DACT, GOLDpoint and Khozmo.


----------



## sachu




----------



## gregdee

Any further listening conclusions guys ,after longer burn period ,and aganist two other competitors used to show a scale ?
   
  Looking forward to hear from anyone involved.
  Also if some of you guys compared it ever with D.Sledge ATC or Tribute attenuator - that would be nice to hear about.
   
  By the time this unit is no brainer for the money with its building quality and custom options available


----------



## rille2

I bought also one of the Khozmo attenuators (round one, quad type). It's used for a KGSSHV with balanced inputs. Unfortunately I have loud clicks in the signal while switching. I searched this thread and found nobody with problems.
   
  I contacted Khozmo a week ago but no answer yet. Bad service 
   
  Did anybody open the attenuator? If I get no replacement from Khozmo, this would be the last chance. I guess the contacts are dirty and I should try to clean them with contact spray. What else could I try?


----------



## spritzer

A few people building KGSSHV's have had problems with these so you are not alone.


----------



## wink

I believe the problem is that the wipers are adjusted to wipe too lightly.
  Adjusting the wipers so there is more contact force should solve the problem at the expense of losing the silky smooth feel with the lighter contact force.


----------



## qusp

sounds like its probably an overreaction to the early models that were too stiff


----------



## Xcalibur255

What about these amps is making the problem show up?  Higher sensitivity?  I'm considering having one of these put in a tube amp, but have been wondering if I might be further ahead just going with the Goldpoint.  Getting twice the number of steps for the same price is attractive though, the thing I dislike about my current stepper is the steps are physically spaced wide enough that it makes the mechanical action feel crude.  Having finer attenuation range is also handy.


----------



## spritzer

There is nothing about the HV that would show differences over many other amp designs.


----------



## Xcalibur255

So one could anticipate clicking during volume adjustment with any amp due to the changes they made to the wiper?  That makes the choice somewhat harder.  Thanks.


----------



## rille2

Thanks for the answers. So it's quite "normal" that their attenuators make problems. Not nice. 
   
  Are there any experiences with the service of Khozmo? I don't accept to pay a lot of money for a not working product.


----------



## spritzer

They seem to take the all too familiar stance of ignoring complaints.


----------



## gilency

Mine was DOA and I requested a refund from PayPal. The guy did not even want it back.
  It makes a good door opener now.


----------



## rille2

I openend the attenuator today. The contact looks quite primitive and I can see nothing that allows the switch to be a “make before break”-switch.



 

 

 


*I can everyone warn to buy it. Khozmo also didn't answer to mails for two weeks now.*


----------



## Fred_fred2004

That looks like its a make before break connector, wiper bridges both contacts before moving off
   
  at least that's what it looks like 
   
  cheers
  FRED


----------



## rille2

There's only one contact point. It should have two:


----------



## Fred_fred2004

It doesn't have to have two points as the wiper is springy and will bridge the gap - I agree the two contact type is better but I have seen several single contact types, try looking at it from the side and I think you'll find the wiper falls into the gap and then lifts out onto the next pad


----------



## rille2

But it doesn't work in practice. It makes a crackling/clicking noise while switching.


----------



## rille2

After two weeks I got a reply from Khozmo. They take back the attenuator and already refunded the money.


----------



## alota

i bought one khozmo with vishay-dale resistors and one quad alps rk-50.
  my past pot was a dact.
  i hope soon to write a my impressions


----------



## Misterrogers

I'm using one of their smd 50K attenuators in a build. Sonically, it sounds good, but it is noisy when adjusting. As this is my first attenuator, I don't know if this is normal. In thinking about how they work, I can see how it may be. I'm otherwise happy with it, and will continue using as long as it's mechanically and sonically sound.


----------



## qusp

try loosening it, its discussed in this thread you can lessen the tension so its not as stiff and I would think that would make it a bit quieter too


----------



## hukkfinn

Any further thoughts?  This thread seems to have gone dormant.
   
  Especially :  is anybody else experiencing noise through your speakers "between clicks"?   Anybody having success fixing said noise?


----------



## rosbuitre

Hi
 I bought the Khozmo (100K stereo) a couple of years ago, for my DIY 300B SET (very occasional use), very good, but a few months ago started with clicks between steps, and a few days later, in the first steps the volume was up 100% .
 I contacted more than three months ago with Arek Kallas and told me it was a problem in a batch of silver, he said he changed without inconvenience, that the next day he sent.
 Since that communication did not know anything more of Arek Kallas or replacement Khozmo.
 I knew nothing more than Arek Kallas , I send many emails, but I have my amp useless.

 Regards


----------



## duncan1

I am trying to work out what you said. Do you mean after 2 years your stepped-khozmo volume control broke down and that you notified the company you bought it from and they contacted you and after that no word from them??. Unless they have a 2YR or more guarantee  they  are not liable for supplying a new one or repairing it free.But problem with a "batch of silver" doesnt sound right to me.Full travel=100% therefore at zero  the last resistor  shouldnt be near the wiper It would take a large amount of silver to contact the input direct. If that is the case then many people would be complaining and you would read about it on the Web. If the FIRST step goes to --100% then that sounds like a mechanical failure in the wiper mechanism. Did you bump/knock it /drop it? If not rough handling maybe not by you maybe a kid in your house. Its an expensive component around $200 . Does your guarantee cover more than 2 years?  --- Just like to add if he has admitted that there was a production fault then legally he must replace it --2YRS or not thats the law in the UK.


----------



## rosbuitre

Yes, broke after two years, and when I contact with Arek told me it was a problem detected in a series and therefore send a new one the next day.
 That was over two months and did not know more about him, the only one who uses khozmo is me.
  I send by private what answered me Arek
  
  Regards


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## duncan1

Hello Rosbuitre- Got your PM of conversation  of  you and Arek. And he still hasn't delivered. Looking at it  he admits responsibility for a "production fault" . That makes him liable LEGALLY for a replacement. If he still hasn't delivered it to you. You can do what everybody does on the web . Go to his website and post a  negative post about him. and take ALL means to publicize the quality control of his company. You at least have the legal right to do that as it is the TRUTH.Don't keep quiet about it. I don't know  what country you live in but most  must have a public consumer help organization . I would email them there is one in the UK. And complain to the public company that deals with the ethics of all businesses.. I wouldn't stop till I either got  a new one or made sure his business felt the reaction from other potential buyers. The one other person long ago I helped just by PUBLISHING a bad business practice on Head-Fi ---you don't know the power of this website 1000s read the posts Worldwide. NO company that wants to continue good business  will ignore Head-Fi. I still don't think that answer he gave is "kosher" He is right when he says silver tarnishes and I posted the same in another thread dealing with silver cables not long a go . But your fault going from 0--to 100% in one click doesn't tie up with silver tarnishing unless he silver plated/sprayed the component ALL over it instead of just on the contacts,???--- hope this helps.----Just remembered. I think the one in the US that deals with this -called-"better business  practice" or words like that.


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## Firochromis

Hi all,
  
 Any more inputs about this topic? 
  
 On partsconnexion there is a MK 2 version of the Khozmos. Anyone tried it so far?


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## stixx

Trying to advertise something... ??


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## Firochromis

What a nice welcome. 
  
 But no, trying to *learn* something. That was my first post but you can search my user name in Agon, Asylum, diyaudio and even in ebay to have your own impression about me.
  
 Regards


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## stixx

Maybe it was a mistake, but your link is pointing to an Ebay auction... therefore my reaction.


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## NightFlight

I managed to stuff a used first gen (square) Khozmo 50K stereo ladder into my Crack.... amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 It had a bit of clicking, but I think it was just the result of neglect.  Good snaps actually. Right in the ear. Ouch.  
 A few quick turns through the usable range seemed to clear it up.  Otherwise, its an amazing piece.


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## roskodan

i didn't realize the khozmo is a shunt type attenuator 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 what value should it be to replace the stock attenuator in a stock conductor?
  
 how do i connect it?


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## roskodan

hi, i did the upgrade, replaced the stock burson's attenuator with the Khozmo shunt type 48 steps
  
 ultra smooth and precise, very noticeable gain in soundstage immediateness and transparency, got rid of the pops and clicks, as well as of the noise with sensible cans, the default one exhibited
  
 used the stock patch cable that connected the default attenuator
  
 removed the Caddock mk132 series resistors (since the conductor has them on the pcb, one can upgrade those too with the ones that come with the 10k khozmo or equivalent, should be 10k but i'm not 100% sure, still awaiting confirmation from burson), bridged the GND terminals on the khozmo with a ohno silver wire and soldered the black wire on it, the red and white wires were soldered on the khozmo's OUT terminals
  
 i got the Khozmo directly from http://www.khozmo.com/ (EU Poland)
  
 http://www.partsconnexion.com/ (Canada) sells upgrade parts and burson's gear and does this and other upgrades, you can send them in your own gear for upgrades too
  
 cheers


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## Insomnus

I recently built an Audio Note (kit) pre-amp, 'The Mentor'. It uses 2 mono Khozmo attenuators, one for each channel. The right channel Khozmo crackled like crazy, when I say 'crackled' I mean my speakers tried to spit the cones across the room, I needed ear protection to change volume. Arek sent me 2 of his newly designed attenuators with double wipers and I have to say theu are awesome, so much better than the old version, (however one advantage the old ones had was you could change it to any resistance by simply swapping out the Caddock resistor, the new ones are 'set' at manufacture, the new ones do not have an external resistor). I'm not sure if it's the extra contact but the whole system is much more alive and 'full'. I realy cannot recommend these new double wiper Khozmo's enough.


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## roskodan

did you get the standard resistors pot or the upgraded one? do you have some photos to show the new design? i sold mine, the one pictured in the post above yours, btw never had any issues with it on my conductor, i'll probably be ordering again cos all the others brands come with 24 steps max, didn't find any with more than that, do anyone know of any?


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## Insomnus

roskodan said:


> did you get the standard resistors pot or the upgraded one? do you have some photos to show the new design? i sold mine, the one pictured in the post above yours, btw never had any issues with it on my conductor, i'll probably be ordering again cos all the others brands come with 24 steps max, didn't find any with more than that, do anyone know of any?


 
 I got the standard one, Resistors: Vishay/Dale RN55 1% 100ppm , 1/8W, low noise. They are tiny SMD type. They look identical to the old apart from there is no room for the Caddock (it had IN/OUT/GND/ connections and 2 for the caddock. Also the fastening posts are slightly larger on the new, so you will need a slightly larger hole in the facia. I cannot post the only photo I have because I do not seem to have permision for that on this forum.


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## Jwm48324

If you go on the Khozmo website they show a stepped attenuator using all naked vishay z foil resistors. What pot is this one?


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## Jwm48324

How about a stepped attenuator using path audio resistors. Now that would be something.


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## Insomnus

jwm48324 said:


> If you go on the Khozmo website they show a stepped attenuator using all naked vishay z foil resistors. What pot is this one?


 
 The naked z foil resistors are better quality than the vishay dale, they also cost more. If you want the ultimate set try Charcroft resistors at £10-£25 each (you will need 48 per channel). Although I think I would buy a Seiden switch if I was paying that much.
  
 http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/car_resistors.html
  
 http://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/seiden-switch-pole-switch-62005-p-9283.html


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## Pirakaphile

I'm a little sad this thread died. Those attenuators are damn sexy! Thinking that I may get one of those pre-amps someday, or maybe I'll try my hand at making one myself with the parts.


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## roskodan

i tried all kind of pots, also dact which is really excellent, but the khozmo kind of impressed me more, it's just so smooth and precise, and the 48 steps are very welcome at such a good price, tho it a bit chunky... also the dact seems much easier to open and clean if necessary...


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## NightFlight

Having heard the improvements out of the Khozmo and being a big fan as a result, I have to give a shout out to Bottlehead's attenuator configuration found in the submissive pre and integrated into the Mainline amp.  From the site: 
  


> The attenuator is the same as used in our Submissive 36 step attenuator with six coarse 9dB steps and six fine 1.5dB steps for a total of 56 dB attenuation.


 
  
 The coarse/fine works well. There's still the one load resistor everything goes through, so that can be upgraded to a naked z-foil
 I don't currently have a really good speaker setup, so I can't *really *compare.  Wether this will beat a good shunt or ladder is out for the jury to decide on.  As it stands in the mainline, I'm impressed.


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## Misterrogers

I have a couple of khozmo balanced attenuators for sale at diy audio dot com.


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## HemiSam

My experience with the Khozmo stepped attenuator has been terrible.  Twice it has introduced what I describe as a CB radio breaking up into the left channel of an electrostatic amplifier.  The second time was after it was serviced.  This was all well within less than a year of purchase. As soon as I replaced it with a volume pot, zero issues.
  
 I cannot recommend the 48 step attenuator based on my personal experience.  It looks nice and is substantial, but if it cannot deliver on its intended purpose after just a few months.
  
 HS


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## NightFlight

Yeah, I'll admit it has some issues with the wiper. But I've yet to (not) hear something sonically superior.  They look like they are a real bitch to build.
  
 When I sell my Crack amp, I'll be taking the Khozmo out first because a) its not reliable b) nothing rivals it.
  
 I may just ask have it tossed into my casket with me. Might have pick a better knob first though.


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## HemiSam

The Khozmos are not worth the climb for those that want to try something new....really.  It's been a giant PITA and it looks to be built like a tank...not so much.
  
 Based on what I have read, a DACT or an Acoustic Dimension would be good and far more reliable options.  If cost is no object, ALPS RK50...
  
 HS


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