# What is the favourite tube on your SOHA?



## Ferrari

As stated at the title... from all the tubes you have tried so far on your SOHA, what is your favourite (brand, type)?
 Feel free to share your experiences here...

 Personally... I have tried the following tubes, also listed by preference:

 RFT ECC82 (German made): cristal clear, balanced sound, very tight bass, most silent tube I have used so far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .
 JJ ECC82: strong bass but not so balanced as the RFT ECC82
 RCA 5963: not so bassy and a bit more details coparing to the JJ ECC82
 GE 5963: well balanced sound but the bass is a bit muddy, also the most noisy tube I have.
 EI Elites 12AU7EG: gold pins, very nice to see but the sound is not my tast, simply not so musical as the other tubes I have used.

 Note that this list is pure my personal preference, listened with my SOHA via Beyer DT990.
 You might have a totally different preferrence than me.


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## tomb

You have a bad tube with that GE 5963 - you should try another one.

 Best all around: GE 5963 (I have about a dozen of these - it's no fluke)
 Best highs: GE 6680

 Pretty d*mn good: Raytheon CK5814A, TungSol 5814A
 OK: Sylvania Gold 5814A, RCA Command 5814A (black plate)

 Not worth the trouble: JAN Phillips 5814A, 6189, GE 5-Star 5814A (have a couple of the GE 5-star, being bad is no fluke in this case, either)

 NEW TUBES:
 JJ - pretty good, ranks with NOS "Pretty d*mn good", but punchier, lots of brraat and pretty good sparkle.
 ElectroHarmonix (break-in king - took a couple of weeks - very powerful slam with Grado-like metal-detail tube)
 EI Gold 12AU7 - OK, good detail but sort of unspectacular - not up to the level of the JJ or EH.

 In sum, the new tubes do pretty well. None are quite as good as the GE 5963 or the GE 6680, IMHO, but the the JJ and EH come pretty close. All those people who went for the JJ should not feel that they are missing much by not going with another tube, IMHO.

 I have had no noise issues with any tube save an RCA 5963 and a National 5963 that both had horrible microphonics - I always chalk that up to the specific tube, though. It's usually when someone back in the day messed up on the assembly line and the spacers, getter, or something else gets mis-aligned. In one case, the getter was jammed up against the plates.

 I have read that your RFT is a mighty fine tube. However, I haven't paid more than $10-$12 for any of mine except the EI, which was $15. Many of the 5963's were $4.


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## ericj

i have to agree that my GE 5963 is quite good. Sounds like you have a bad tube. 

 I also have some RCA 5963 which i like ok, some sylvania 12au7a's that are alright, a telefunken 12au7a that needs some more burn-in. 

 I also have a number of flatly awful 5963's which were sold to me as RCA but which are probably of chinese manufacture. The only identifying markings are the octagon and a small "hc" "nc" or similar two-letter marking near the base. These have a square getter that is welded to the top of the cathode at one corner, at an angle, and have a thin sheet of metal spot-welded at one point to the square frame. They are fantastically microphonic, have harsh highs, and muddy everything else. 

 the tricky thing about the SOHA is that the normal rules of thumb about what brand or type of tube is 'best' don't generally hold true. You could end up spending $20 on a tube that might sound great in some other piece of gear but not so hot in the SOHA. You could also pay a whole dollar for something that sounds pretty good.


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## heatmizer

how would you guys compare a rca5963 (came with the kit) and a ElectroHarmonix 12au7 local store has them for 10 $US ?


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## heatmizer

thinking of soha just finished this sijosae db








 man i need a good camera


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## tomb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heatmizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how would you guys compare a rca5963 (came with the kit) and a ElectroHarmonix 12au7 local store has them for 10 $US ?_

 

$10 locally for an EH is a good price. You will pay $6 shipping for a not much lower price ($9-$10) at most web tube dealers. The EH is good enough that it is well worth much more than that price to try it.

 Give it a long time for break-in, though. That thing took a couple of weeks for me before it became very smooth and lost some of the huge boom. It's very powerful initially, almost overwhelming. It's also the fattest 12AU7 around, which is kind of cool - makes it seem even more powerful. There is nothing like it in the NOS tubes I've tried.

 P.S. I also agree completely with Eric's post. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe the Chinese factory got the mistaken idea to attach the getter in that way.


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## lutefisk

"What is the favourite tube on your SOHA?"

 First I tried Electroharminix (non-gold pin) and JJ (non-gold pin).

 I preferred the EH: nice dynamics, sparkle, a better match for Grado 325s (black). JJ was not bad though, just a bit thicker in the lower registers.

 I now use an Amperex BugleBoy I picked up used from Tube Depot. Nice service and helpful folks. This is my favorite of the three. A bit noisy until I cleaned the pins. Now is fine. Best balance of the group, it is quiet, maybe not as quiet as the EH, very good soundstage


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## FallenAngel

Haven't spent enough time with all of them to make up my mind completely (damn the PPAv2 I finished just recently). So far between the JJ, ElectroHarmonix and 6680, I'm trying out and very much enjoying the 6680.

 ElectroHarmonix was really nice though, super fast.

 Listened to GE 5963 for a few minutes while testing a very buggy soha build, it's impressive. Definite contender to the best of the bunch, but the 6680 in there now is in the lead


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## Slaughter

GE5963 for me, so far. The RCA 5963's gray and black plates sounded good, but every RCA I have tried has been extremely microphonic.


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## heatmizer

How do i tell if i have gray or black plate on rca?


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## zer061zer0

I find the GE5693 a very pleasant tube too. ALthough i also like my amperex 12au7 equally, which i have gotten from a fellow headfi. 

 I did not spend much time on them but they give me a different feel which i cannot pin point exactly. 

 What is this sijosae db about 
 Sounds like something for me on my next SOHA....


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## heatmizer

sijosae db is a simple diamond buffer easy to build just have to match transistors a bit. it just adds a bit more current capability to the opamp
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...9&postcount=71


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## steinchen

this buffer does not work with the SOHA as is, you'll get significant dc offset
 I'd recommend reading the SOHA threads at headwize


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## heatmizer

even if the db is in the feedback loop of the opamp?


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## headphonejunkie

I have been listening to an EH 12au7 and it sounds pretty darn good. I have a GE 5814a 5star that is good too. My RFT is running second or third right now. I did not like the JJ I Have. It is probably the worst tube I have so far. I want to get a mullard but they are expensive on ebay. Everyone is willing to pay big bucks for them.I just got a volex power cord and I don't know if it is me or not but the soundstage seemed to open up compared to a jellyfish cord I have.


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## steinchen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heatmizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_even if the db is in the feedback loop of the opamp?_

 

then it will work because the offset gets nulled by the feedback loop. though you'll have an opamp back in the signal path


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## heatmizer

K good thats is what i thought i just wanted a bit more current capability


 at least till your buffers are available


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## mrdon

Asking for tube recommendations is IMHO subjective, as a great deal depends on how the tube melds with your source, your phones, and your God-given hearing. But nevertheless, here is a list of tubes that I have enjoyed in my SOHA's
 JJ
 CBS
 Mullard
 Amperex


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## headphonejunkie

Of course, YMMV.


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## zer061zer0

How and where do u install these onto the SOHA pcb.?

 If i am not wrong i think the grados like current right..?I am using a grado.


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## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zer061zer0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How and where do u install these onto the SOHA pcb.?

 If i am not wrong i think the grados like current right..?I am using a grado._

 

Lol, I don't want to sound mean, but I almost fell off my chair when I read that.

 I'm guessing you don't have a SOHA or ever saw one. There only one tube socket, take the old tube out, put new one in and adjust the trimpots until the plate is 40V (if you're using the PCB, there is actually a testpoint marked "40V").

 Unless you're talking about the sijosae buffer, in which case, it replaces the opamp.


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## zer061zer0

Come on, I was refering to the db...

 How do we install that in?

 On a side note do we have to adjust the trim pot everytime we change the tube?


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## tomb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zer061zer0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Come on, I was refering to the db...

 How do we install that in?_

 

Look at Heatmizer's 2nd pic - there are 8 pins coming off the bottom, so it looks as if the whole assembly is built to plug into the opamp socket. Although, he's going to have to trim those pins. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


 On a side note do we have to adjust the trim pot everytime we change the tube? 
 

 YES. The bias varies *widely* between tube types and brand, from tube to tube of the same type/brand, and even from channel to channel within the same tube.

 Take comfort in the fact that as DIY-er's, we don't have to worry about any of the "matching" hype - we can adjust!


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## heatmizer

yeah the pins need to be trimmed just have to decide whether to move c2 & 14 to bottom of board


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## tcpoint

I really like my GE5693.


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## Ferrari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrdon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Asking for tube recommendations is IMHO subjective, as a great deal depends on how the tube melds with your source, your phones, and your God-given hearing..._

 

Very good point! Besides this... there are also so many ways to configure the SOHA which obviously can result in different sounds of this amp.

*@tomb*
 Probably I have a bad GE 5963, it was mainly the noise that poisoned the music. 
 I'm going to order some 5814A at an US webshop soon... so a couple of GE 5963's will be added to this order, hope that I have more luck.
 I like the RFT most not only because of the its sound. It's also (almost) free from microphonic, I can touch the tube while listening to music without any audible bad effect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


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## lutefisk

"...... There only one tube socket, take the old tube out, put new one in and adjust the trimpots until the plate is 40V (if you're using the PCB, there is actually a testpoint marked "40V")."

 I set my plate voltage at 55 with the 12au7 Amperex. Before I roll tubes I always bring down plate voltage to accomodate the variance between tubes. I am building a 2nd SOHA that I waill use as my test bed for trying different things. I have reached a sticking point as I figure out best box to make it easy to roll opamps/buffers/tubes and anything else. I saw an enclosure at Frys that might work, upside down: Bottom cover becomes the top cover, only four screws, easy access. Only thing is the edges are bevelled slightly outward toward the cover so inverting the box makes it look a little off kilter.


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## zer061zer0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heatmizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah the pins need to be trimmed just have to decide whether to move c2 & 14 to bottom of board_

 

Mind showing me a picture of how u install in onto the board. so do we need to pieces of this.


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## heatmizer

simple diamond buffer installed:


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## zer061zer0

Thanks for the pictures and the explanation, i see that u have the tantulum on at the back, how do these differ from the ecaps. 

 i also see something at the back of those tantulums, what are they.??

 I was planning to use the tantulum on my second board, maybe i can try out the db as well. Any checks to perform before I power on the first time after having the db in?


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## heatmizer

the gold lookin things are cut down northbridge heatsinks for for vr1 and vr2 regulators








 can anyone recommend a cheap but good resolution webcam?


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## zer061zer0

What notable differences did u hear in the tantulum and db installed..?

 Can i slot the db into the opamp socket? Will it fit.?


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## heatmizer

I noticed an increase in clean volume no distortion After several hours listening 
 tried the buffer with opa2134 and opd2227
 After several hours listening it seems that guitar riffs like ac/dc back in black are very clear and more open. Over all i'm happy with the set up and am staying with the buffer and opa2227.


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## zer061zer0

Great...! I am looking forward to mine with the same configuration as soon as i find the time..


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## tomb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zer061zer0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great...! I am looking forward to mine with the same configuration as soon as i find the time.._

 

That's great work guys. But before you go further down that road, you might wait a bit until Steinchen's SOHA buffers are released for a Group Buy:

 There's a through-hole DB:
Discrete Buffer: Diamond Buffer (through-hole)





 a through-hole JISBOS Buffer (orig design by Amb):
Discrete Buffer: JISBOS Buffer (through-hole)





 and finally, an SMD, stacked, drop-in JISBOS Buffer designed to plug directly into the opamp position:
Dicrete Buffer: JISBOS Buffer (stacked, direct drop-in, SMD)




 (top board shown)

 He's built the first protos and is working on the production batch, I believe.


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## heatmizer

i have to agree with tomb on waiting for steichen's buffer they are going to be way better sounding and more robust than the little toy i made.


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## makasin

Anybody have a link to where I could get my hands on the GE 5963 tube?
 I cannot seem to find it on the web for a very good price. Plus, I got a matched pair of RCA 5963 tubes instead of the GE5963 that I paid for coz they were out of stock, which is kinda lame because I was super excited to hear the tube and then got the microphone tube instead.

 What are the sonic/technical/whatever differences between the buffers above?
 Whats the difference between jisbos and DB? Why would I prefer one over the other?
 Is the drop-in version gonna sound amazing as well?


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## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *makasin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody have a link to where I could get my hands on the GE 5963 tube?
 I cannot seem to find it on the web for a very good price. Plus, I got a matched pair of RCA 5963 tubes instead of the GE5963 that I paid for coz they were out of stock, which is kinda lame because I was super excited to hear the tube and then got the microphone tube instead.

 What are the sonic/technical/whatever differences between the buffers above?
 Whats the difference between jisbos and DB? Why would I prefer one over the other?
 Is the drop-in version gonna sound amazing as well?_

 

Thanks to tomb for this source, you can grab GE 5963 from http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com just ask specifically for GE 5963, they're $4.

 For the DB, check out the Steinchen's headwize threads. The DBs are pretty different but with the JisBos easier on the amp, Steinchen prefers it to the higher current / power hungry DB.

 Technically, there should be no difference between the drop-in and air-wired versions.


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## Blooze

I like the GE 5963's as well. But as far as RCA 5963's being microphonic, I've got a handful of black plates that aren't at all (all the grey plates I have are, though)and that I actually prefer over the GE's. Tung-sol 5814A's sound nice as well, but the GE 5814's suck. I've also got an old 12au7 of some unknown brand that sounds very, very nice. You can just barely make out the 12au7 marking in really bright light. I got all of my tubes from a gentleman who had gotten them years ago from the local nuclear facility. And no, they don't glow green or anything


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## tomb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Blooze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like the GE 5963's as well. But as far as RCA 5963's being microphonic, I've got a handful of black plates that aren't at all (all the grey plates I have are, though)and that I actually prefer over the GE's. *Tung-sol 5814A's sound nice as well, but the GE 5814's suck.* I've also got an old 12au7 of some unknown brand that sounds very, very nice. You can just barely make out the 12au7 marking in really bright light. I got all of my tubes from a gentleman who had gotten them years ago from the local nuclear facility. And no, they don't glow green or anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ditto - TungSol 5814A is pretty good. I don't know what GE did with their 5814's - I was excited to get two of the "5-Star" and as you say, _they suck_.


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## Ferrari

My tubes order arrived yesterday, included some GE 5963's.
 I have put one GE 5963 on my SOHA, let it burn-in all night and listen to it right now.
 I think I like it... next to my RFT ECC82 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . 
 Not the noisy sound as it happened with my previous GE 5963, that must be a bad tube.


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## Sathimas

Are those GE "5 Star" tubes worth to extra money? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could by a used normal 5963 for $7 or a NOS 5 Star 5963 for $16 ...


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## ericj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Blooze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like the GE 5963's as well. But as far as RCA 5963's being microphonic, I've got a handful of black plates that aren't at all (all the grey plates I have are, though)and that I actually prefer over the GE's._

 

I think it's mostly differences in the getter construction. 

 I have a whole bunch of RCA 5963's that have a square getter that's got a rectangular sheet of metal spot welded to the getter in one spot only. 

 'microphonic' is an understatement for them.


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## headphonejunkie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sathimas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are those GE "5 Star" tubes worth to extra money? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could by a used normal 5963 for $7 or a NOS 5 Star 5963 for $16 ..._

 

My ge 5814 5 star sounds real nice.


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## headphonejunkie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ditto - TungSol 5814A is pretty good. I don't know what GE did with their 5814's - I was excited to get two of the "5-Star" and as you say, they suck._

 


 HEY! My 5814a 5 star sounds good.What are you guys comparing these too? Has anyone tried a bugle boy or mullard in the SOHA?My 5814a is old. Probably the 60's so maybe that is why it sounds good.I got it on ebay for $14 shipped.I just scored some(2) orange globe amperex from 1971 made at mullard blackburn for $24 shipped on ebay. I can't wait to hear how those sound.


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## Sathimas

The question is where the difference between the normal and the 5 Star Series is?

 I mean, are the 5stars better in any case?


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## headphonejunkie

I like the 5star better than my RCA 5963. I don't have any GE 5963's though to compare it to.


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## tomb

The RCA 5963 is fairly non-descript. The GE 5963 is singularly better than other 5963's (in the SOHA).

 The GE "Five Star" or "Command" series were specially ruggedized versions of the 5814A, intended for military rigors, etc. Many of the premium tubes - GE Five Star, Raytheon CK, Sylvania Gold Standard - were built with triple mica spacers, and/or double posts on the getter, or as in the case of the Raytheon CK5814, an entirely different type of "plate" getter.

 Like almost every GE tube, the Five Star 5814A's have great power and dynamics, but in my experience (I have two), the highs are missing. Considering that it is accepted as an upgrade type tube in every way, that's a disappointing result.

 There are others on Audio Asylum who've rejected them, too.

 Sathimas, James Cross at VacuumTubesInc.com sells the GE 5963 for $4 ea.


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## headphonejunkie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The RCA 5963 is fairly non-descript. The GE 5963 is singularly better than other 5963's (in the SOHA).

 The GE "Five Star" or "Command" series were specially ruggedized versions of the 5814A, intended for military rigors, etc. Many of the premium tubes - GE Five Star, Raytheon CK, Sylvania Gold Standard - were built with triple mica spacers, and/or double posts on the getter, or as in the case of the Raytheon CK5814, an entirely different type of "plate" getter.

 Like almost every GE tube, the Five Star 5814A's have great power and dynamics, but in my experience (I have two), the highs are missing. Considering that it is accepted as an upgrade type tube in every way, that's a disappointing result.

 There are others on Audio Asylum who've rejected them, too.

 Sathimas, James Cross at VacuumTubesInc.com sells the GE 5963 for $4 ea._

 

That is probably why it sounds good with my grados. Not too harsh with the highs.


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## Sathimas

I already read several times that vacuum tubes inc. sells the 5963 at 4$,
 but I can not find the tubes in the shop - nor the 5963 neither the 6680, which I'd like to try also.

 Am I blind? Or something worse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 [EDIT] 
 I downloaded the cataloque and now I found both tubes.
 I'll send them an email, hope they've got GE6680s too.


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## tomb

I think the confusion comes in because some tube vendors treat the "59" in "5963" as coming before 6D's and 6J's, but then others list "5963" as if the "59" comes way after a "12" as in 12AU7 - if that makes sense.

 If you guys are interested, there are two vendors that have really good writeups on the 12AU7 and all its variants. Some of the stuff is obviously their own opinion and what sounds good at standard bias (100V) may not sound as good in the SOHA (40V), so be skeptical. Nevertheless, it's kind of a fun read in both places:

http://www.vacuumtubes.com/12au7.html
http://www.audiotubes.com/12au7.htm


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## Sathimas

Hi again,

 vacuumtubes inc. is out of stock for GE 5963, the only have RAC5963 now, $7,95 each.
 The do not have 6680s either.

 I just bought a GE 6680, a 5Star GE 5963 and a used GE 5963 on eBay.
 Hope they'll arrive very soon, it's a long way over the big ocean


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## tomb

Holy cow! He had a hundred of 'em when I bought mine.


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## Sathimas

Maybe it's because you are telling everybody how great the are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I paid 49$ now including the shipping, not too much looking at the dollor/euro course.
 I had a look on some German shops, the good (or said to be good) german/russian tubes are still more expansive.

 Last but not least, I know two guys who built a SOHA too and might
 be interested in the tubes I won't use.


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## headphonejunkie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sathimas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi again,

 vacuumtubes inc. is out of stock for GE 5963, the only have RAC5963 now, $7,95 each.
 The do not have 6680s either.

 I just bought a GE 6680, a 5Star GE 5963 and a used GE 5963 on eBay.
 Hope they'll arrive very soon, it's a long way over the big ocean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Ebay works too.


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## tomb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headphonejunkie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ebay works too._

 

True, but they don't often have the best price.

 It's really hard to beat Head-Fi's own Sticky list of tube dealers in Head-Fi's Amp section:

 [size=xx-small]http://www.audioelectronicsupply.co...ubes/tubes.html
http://www.alltronics.com/tubes3.htm
http://www.amps-n-bits.com/itempagevt0000.htm
http://home.att.net/~esrc/esrcs4.html
http://www.audiotubes.com/bjtubes.htm#main%20list
http://www.bel-tubes.co.uk/
http://www.bottlehead.com/et/parts/parts.htm
http://www.burdaleclose.freeserve.co.uk/new_page_17.htm
http://www.caryaudio.com/
http://home.att.net/~chimeraone/vintageaudiotubes.html
http://www.dc-daylight.ltd.uk/Valve...s-for-sale.html
http://www.dbtubes.com/
http://www.crowthornetubes.com
http://earlywireless.com/valves_for_sale.htm
http://www.electronluv.com/
http://www.electron-tubes.com/
http://www.ee.ualberta.ca/~schmaus/elect/tdex.html
http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/index.html
http://www.exoticaudio.org/
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/1359/ (Aussie)
http://geocities.com/nikolic_lj_dra...ectronTubes.htm
http://www.groovetubes.com/dealers_us.cfm
http://www.house-of-tubes.com/home/hot_home.asp
http://www.jolida.com/
http://www.kenselectronics.com/lists/tubes.htm
http://members.aol.com/etetubes/
http://www.metcoelectronics.com/tubes.htm
http://www.machmat.com/sales/
http://www.macnet.or.jp/pa/upi-k/2A3.html
http://www.manleylabs.com/
http://www.mothaudio.com/
http://www.nostalgiaair.org/otcr.htm
http://www.ohare-inc.com/tube1.htm
http://www.prosound.co.nz/index.htm?...htm~TitleFrame (sovtek)
http://www.radiodaze.com/tubes-07.htm
http://www.r-vac.com/tubes.htm
http://www.satcure-focus.com/audio/page3.htm
http://soundstage.com/tubeor/tube.htm (NOS)
http://www.sovtek.com/
http://www.starkelectronic.com/tubes.htm
http://www.surplussales.com/Tubes-S...cTubeIndex.html
http://www.svetlana.com/docs/tubeworks.html
http://store.yahoo.com/triodeel/tubes.html
http://www3.sympatico.ca/v.soundworks/
http://www.tubecollector.org/index.shtml
http://www.thetubestore.com/nos-12fm6.html
http://www.thetubecenter.com/tubelist9.html
http://www.torontosurplus.com/redir...ames_middle.htm (Canada)
http://tubesontheweb.com/TU07.HTM
http://www.tube-shop.com/
http://www.tubesandmore.com/
http://www.tubeworld.com/
http://www.tubeworld.com/cryovalve.html
http://www.tubetronic.com/
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/
http://www.vacuumtube.com/
http://www.vacuumtubes.com/price7.html
http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/
http://www.vacuumtube.com/
http://www.valves.uk.com/
http://www.valve.demon.co.uk/valves.htm
http://www.valves1.freeserve.co.uk/tubes.htm
http://www.watfordvalves.com/mainindex.htm
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/
http://www.valves1.freeserve.co.uk/...c/esrcmain.html[/size]

 There are more where that came from ...


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## Sathimas

Well tomb, your list comes a little late 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But thank you anyway, I'll keep in in my bookmarks.

 Who knows ... maybe the tuberolling virus infects me


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## headphonejunkie

TOMB that is a big list. I may have to use it too. Thanks for the info.Only problem with tube rolling is once you find the tube you like the others just sit around. Although, I am sure different headphones sound good with different tubes too.


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## tomb

That stuff has been right here on Head-Fi - in the "Headphone Amps" forum section - for years:

TUBES SITES faq - add your fav's here 

 Like I said in the earlier post, it's a sticky at the top of that forum section. I thought I'd post some of it here, though. I guess there are others who didn't realize it was available, either.


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## M_Bipartitus

I have ~3 GE 5963 5 stars that are ok. I prefer the RCA cleartop 12AU7A (NOS '64). Now that the amp has gone a week with no problems (and the gf is out of town) I'll be testing the NOS Amprex Buggle Boys, CBS, and Telefunkens at home. Also I've found the noise floor on my computer is a bit high for careful testing, so time to wire up the DVD-A player.


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## headphonejunkie

I would like to hear how those bugle boys sound.


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## Sathimas

My new tubes arrived yesterday but I don't have a multimeter myself and have to borrow it.
 Since I couldn't get one yesterday and today also, they'll have to wait until next week because
 I'm going to Egypt for one week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Holidays - I'm coming (with loads of books for university in my luggage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


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## headphonejunkie

I just received my amperex golden globe 12au7's made in great britain yesterday. They sound pretty darn good. They have a lot of air and quite a bit of bass. The bass is nice and clear too. There seems to be more emphasis on midrange but I have to do more listening to be real sure. I like them. I am going to have to pick up a bugle boy now just to hear how nice that sounds. This soha is quite a nice amp. I think I can be happy with this little amp for quite a while. It matches my grado 225's quite well.I was going to build myself a cavelli jones. I am half way there. This amp is so nice I think that that project is going on the back burner for now.


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## headphonejunkie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *M_Bipartitus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have ~3 GE 5963 5 stars that are ok. I prefer the RCA cleartop 12AU7A (NOS '64). Now that the amp has gone a week with no problems (and the gf is out of town) I'll be testing the NOS Amprex Buggle Boys, CBS, and Telefunkens at home. Also I've found the noise floor on my computer is a bit high for careful testing, so time to wire up the DVD-A player._

 


 I suppose it does depend on which headphone you are using too. I see you have an rs2. That is probably a very warm phone (never heard one) so the cleartop does not sound too harsh for it. My cleartop with my 225's seems a bit on the harsh side. The cleartop also seems to lack the air my RFT and amperex gold globes have.


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## headphonejunkie

I just wanted to say that my amperex gold globes are some nice tubes. they sound similar to the RFT but have more emphasis on mids. I like them. They are my number one tube at the moment. I wanted to try something made by mullard and these do sound nice. Not bad for $24 shipped for two from ebay(unfortunately used).


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## Sathimas

I finally managed to listen to my new tubes today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had one 5963, one 5963 5 Stars and one 6680, all GE.

 The 6680 is my absolute Favourite!
 Switching beetween 5963 and 6680 is like switching loudness ON (5963) /OFF (6680). 

 The 6680 is more detailed across the whole frequency range, cymbals AND base guitars are much better.
 The strange thing is that there is actually a little less bass but the resolution is better.
 Also cymbals are more accurate but not as loud/disturbing as with the 5963.

 Sounds very neutral to my ears, while the 5963 is far more "in your face".
 I prefer the 5Star over the standard 5963, sounds very similar but the 5 Star has more pleasant heights.

 The 5963 was somehow disappointing anyway, I cannot make out any real big difference to the standard RCA 12AU7 Jeff sold me.
 A little more detailed, but almost the same sonic characteristics to my ears.

 So thank you very much for recommending me the 6680, its perfect for me.
 I'll keep the 5 Star GE 5963 as reserve and "loudness button" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Luckily, I can exchange the 5963 and the 6680 without adjusting the voltages, they change only about 0.5Volts when I exchange the tubes.


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## tomb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sathimas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally managed to listen to my new tubes today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had one 5963, one 5963 5 Stars and one 6680, all GE.

 The 6680 is my absolute Favourite!
 Switching beetween 5963 and 6680 is like switching loudness ON (5963) /OFF (6680). 

*The 6680 is more detailed across the whole frequency range, cymbals AND base guitars are much better.
 The strange thing is that there is actually a little less bass but the resolution is better.*
 Also cymbals are more accurate but not as loud/disturbing as with the 5963.

 Sounds very neutral to my ears, while the 5963 is far more "in your face".
 I prefer the 5Star over the standard 5963, sounds very similar but the 5 Star has more pleasant heights.

 The 5963 was somehow disappointing anyway, I cannot make out any real big difference to the standard RCA 12AU7 Jeff sold me.
 A little more detailed, but almost the same sonic characteristics to my ears.

 So thank you very much for recommending me the 6680, its perfect for me.
 I'll keep the 5 Star GE 5963 as reserve and "loudness button" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Luckily, I can exchange the 5963 and the 6680 without adjusting the voltages, they change only about 0.5Volts when I exchange the tubes._

 

You have a very optimum selection, which may be why the $4 GE 5963 is not more impressive. However, as for the GE 6680, my sentiments exactly. Glad you like it - it's one of those nice little discoveries one can make in rolling tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You might also try some of the NEW tubes - the JJ 12AU7 and the Electro Harmonix 12AU7 are particularly nice, but beware the EH - it has an unbelievably long break-in. Neither have the sweetness in the highs of the GE 6680, though - it's like connecting a high dollar boutique film cap in the circuit.


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## Sathimas

No tomb, you will not tempt me to try any more tubes ... NO!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I spent far enough money for now, next step will be another amp, if there will be another step.

 Or maybe Diamond Buffers for the SOHA.
 But until today nobody told my what kind of improvement they'll bring.


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## headphonejunkie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have a very optimum selection, which may be why the $4 GE 5963 is not more impressive. However, as for the GE 6680, my sentiments exactly. Glad you like it - it's one of those nice little discoveries one can make in rolling tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You might also try some of the NEW tubes - the JJ 12AU7 and the Electro Harmonix 12AU7 are particularly nice, but beware the EH - it has an unbelievably long break-in. Neither have the sweetness in the highs of the GE 6680, though - it's like connecting a high dollar boutique film cap in the circuit._

 

I like the EH but don't care for the JJ. Of course, these differences in many cases are not great but the JJ just sounds cheap.I would have to listen to it again to see exactly what it was I didn't like about it.


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## tomb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sathimas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No tomb, you will not tempt me to try any more tubes ... NO!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I spent far enough money for now, next step will be another amp, if there will be another step.

 Or maybe Diamond Buffers for the SOHA.
 But until today nobody told my what kind of improvement they'll bring._

 









 Well, maybe you're right - the GE 6680 is the greatest find, IMHO, and now you have it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headphonejunkie* 
_I like the EH but don't care for the JJ. Of course, these differences in many cases are not great but the JJ just sounds cheap.I would have to listen to it again to see exactly what it was I didn't like about it._

 

Yeah, you're definitely right - the EH is actually much better, but the JJ is pretty reliable right from the start and it has a pretty good response. Both are _very_ easy to find, being new production, which is the main reason I mentioned them. The EH is probably my favorite _new_ tube. Sathimas compares the GE 5963 to a Loudness switch, but the EH 12AU7 is way and above the most powerful 12AU7 I've tried.


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## headphonejunkie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sathimas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No tomb, you will not tempt me to try any more tubes ... NO!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I spent far enough money for now, next step will be another amp, if there will be another step.

 Or maybe Diamond Buffers for the SOHA.
 But until today nobody told my what kind of improvement they'll bring._

 

I think I have 8 tubes now. It is addicting.


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## Sathimas

I have 4 atm - and I'll keep only two of'em.

 For the next months I'll spend more money on "software" again.
 Some of my favourite bands are about to relaese new albums.

 But maybe someone here could tell me about the diamond buffers?


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## headphonejunkie

Go to headwize.com and look up diamond buffers in the DIY section.There also are going to be JISBOS buffers too. I am thinking of building the JISBOS buffers.


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## tomb

discrete buffer: jisbos (air wired)
 This is the link, as Headphonejunkie says. However, if I'm not mistaken, these will be the only buffers. Steinchen actually did four different kinds at one point:
 1. MOSFET buffer
 2. Diamond buffer
 3. Jisbos buffer plug-in (double decker boards)
 4. Jisbos air-wired (above).

 If I remember correctly, the MOSFET buffer was never stable and was abandoned. The Diamond Buffer (DB) had a DC servo to control offset, but every time the offset was dialed out, there was very little left over to bias the buffer. The Jisbos buffer plug-in was designed to plug directly into the opamp position on the SOHA board. It required two boards stacked on top of each other to do this. However, I think Steinchen finally decided that these were way too difficult both from an SMD standpoint and because of poor structural stability.

 The Jisbos air-wired are completely through-hole and have been successfully built by other people. The Jisbos is an original buffer design from Amb, but Steinchen has made the implementation specific for the SOHA. He also remarked that they were the best-sounding, anyway.


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## tomb

MORE: I guess we should add that the real weakness in the SOHA design is the opamp output stage. Most, if not all, opamps were not designed to drive a load directly - at least not one like some of the headphones we use. This is similar to the development that the original Millett Hybrid went through. Originally, the Millett was provided with a monolithic buffer output stage - the BUF634's. Later, Amb made a small conversion that allowed the OPA551 to work in the same way as the BUF634's, thereby increasing the relative current available. The same could be achieved by stacking the BUF634's, but that was more expensive.

 Later however, Steinchen (no coincidence that he's doing it for the SOHA) developed the famous Millett Hybrid Diamond Buffer boards, which gave the Millett unparalleled sound quality capability. His work formed much of the basis of the Millett MAX design, and his website remains today as an invaluable reference for biasing a DB and for his excellent reviews of the different output transistors that may be used. His website is directly referenced for the DB's from the MAX website:
http://www.diamondstar.de/dDB_overview.html

 As mentioned above, Amb actually designed the Jisbos circuit. However, as with the Millett, Steinchen recognized that the greatest improvement that could be made to the SOHA would be to add a discrete buffer. If his previous work is any indication, the Jisbos buffers will put the SOHA into a new level of sound quality and will be in much demand.


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## Sathimas

Well ... I read about a hundred times that those buffers improve the sound ...

 But *how *do they change the sound?
 Has anybody some before/after review or something?

 I mean, *why *are they so great?


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## headphonejunkie

In my experience, they give more power and airiness to the music. Also, they do not mask what is before the op amp. So, you will be able to really hear the differences the tubes make.I wouldn't say it is a 100 percent improvement but for grados it gives the needed current to make the headphones go to there full potential.


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## headphonejunkie

One thing I like about the SOHA is that you can change things to change your sound. I tried different power cords in mine and found the iron lung jellyfish to be the best cord under $20. I compared a standard computer cord, a volex, and the jellyfish. Tubes are another great thing to try. Once the JISBOS are available you should have a direct line to the music more or less without the coloring of the op amps.I would like to think that the JISBOS will bring me that much closer to the sound of a MELOS amp.


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## tomb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sathimas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well ... I read about a hundred times that those buffers improve the sound ...

 But *how *do they change the sound?
 Has anybody some before/after review or something?

 I mean, *why *are they so great?_

 

Put simply, it's analogous to a 2-cycle chain saw engine compared to a Formula I high-rpm powerhouse. Strictly speaking, each (opamp vs. discrete Class A buffer) may be able to handle the puny constant load of a headphone, but one idles with much more leverage and power reserve. It is able to respond with explosive force to even the slightest of transients. This gives the music more depth, transparency, detail, and realism. As HJ also says, it ensures that even the smallest single electron of a signal passing through the tube gets passed to the headphone.


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## headphonejunkie

TOMB, you are so much better in explaining things.


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## Sathimas

Ah, you guys here at head-fi are a curse to my purse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The only problem is that I have no space inside my case ...
 I'm thinking of stuffing them in a small extra enclosure and put that to the backside of my case.
 Maybe I'll make it look like a big heatsink...


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## headphonejunkie

Just build a new case.You can save the old one for a different project. That way you can twist all of your wires up too.


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## Sathimas

No time to build new case.

 University starts in about two weeks and I won't have time to do any woodworks before February next year.
 I already have some ideas for fitting the buffers to the backside of my SOHA.

 Btw.: With the OPA, the SOHA will become a *SHA*


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## headphonejunkie

Just wanted to say that people that are hesitant to get bugle boys and mullards for there SOHA's. You will be pleasently surprised if you do. So far the amperex gold globes made by blackburn that I have are the best tubes I have come across. I know there is talk about the low voltage not doing these tubes justice but I still feel that these tubes do sound better anyway. I wouldn't say go out and spend a 100 dollars or anything but 30 to 40 might be a good investment. I know I am going to get a bugle boy the next chance I get. I wouldn't spend over 40 though. That is just too crazy for any tube really.


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## Seaside

The result of my impulse buy from the ebay arrived.

 They are used 12AU7s of mixed brands, some of them are quite heavily used, and bit off the balance. I was able to adjust it without whole lotta hassle. I do not find any microphobics from all 8 tubes. so that's nice. I think 4 out of 8 are quite good, other 4 are not bad, actually on good side.

 - Zenith, short plate, rigged rib, halo getter. This one is exellent, sounds much like that of amperex PQ white label, which is one of the best out there.

 - Raytheon, short plate, halo getter. Quite good. Strong bass, clear highs, and good seperation. 

 - RCA ClearTop side getter. fuller, warm and sweet sound. Easy to listen.


 ***
 And, regarding RCA 5963 in question that ericj stated at 1st page of this thread... I have few of them too, and fortunately mine have no or little microphobic problem except one of them which is almost intolerable. 
 Soundwise... hmmm... let me state this way... I will not go back to this 5963 in question. Probabaly they are not original as ericj suspected.


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## cfcubed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Best all around: GE 5963 (I have about a dozen of these - it's no fluke)
 Best highs: GE 6680

 Pretty d*mn good: Raytheon CK5814A, TungSol 5814A<snip>_

 

Just wanted to thank tomb for his SOHA tube opinion summary... 

 Had been using the nice combo of GE 5963 & OPA2134 then got ahold of a good Raytheon CK5814A & using that w/OPA2107. To me, this new combo's presentation is more "exciting" & maybe punchier - exposing different aspects of my music (rock). 
 Although GE 5963 / OPA2107 maybe be more neutral w/less coloration & nicer for all sorts of music, I'm enjoying the CK5814A/OPA2107... Something to think about if one wants a different sound out of their SOHA.

 Thanks again!


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## awesomebob

Hi, sorry, maybe this is a dumb question, but when you talk about rolling tubes, what do you mean...? And when you talk about using more than one type of tube, do you use them at the same time?
Cheers,
Chris


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## tomb

Quote: 





awesomebob said:


> Hi, sorry, maybe this is a dumb question, but when you talk about rolling tubes, what do you mean...? And when you talk about using more than one type of tube, do you use them at the same time?
> Cheers,
> Chris


 
  From someone named "zandru" on another forum (don't blame me for the grammar and punctuation):
   
  Quote: 





> Rolling, which was a roll of the dice or (shall we say) tubes for WWII radio operators who in order to keep their (manpack) field transceivers etc! in tiptop operational condition; would resort to rolling any available parts (including tubes) that they could scavenge during these unbearable times to maintain or even improve their equipments capabilities.We had the best communications network which helped us win the war. even without standardized hardware at first, It was up to our finest long haul field infantry radio jocks and all teachable personnel to keep their radio equipment in the best operational condition. Rolling was a common term used during those bleak times. After WWII, the terminology filtered down into the vocabulary of some small groups of TV, Radio & HI FI repair circles. A term that eventually fell out of fashion; only to be be reintroduced in the late 1980's; which has resulted in some of the most confusing and ambiguous interpretations within the last twenty years or so. bringing us all the way back to the substitution method, Before tube testers were commonly available. Which is from the (pre WWII) early days of radio, Then leading up to PP OP Tube rotation; all the way up to multiple variety type; full complimented Russian roulette setups for the insanely wealthy . And let us not forget our hordes of Receiver, Driver, Preamp Tubes all waiting on deck (with a roll in mind) to feed on our insatiable listening fetish.


 
   
  In simplest terms, it's swapping out one type of tube for another that may sound better - or the journey in trying to find a tube that sounds the best could be termed "tube rolling."  It's analogous to swapping out opamps in solid-state circuitry, but with tubes - even different brands of the same tube type may sound different, much less different tube types.  As with opamps, there are some tube types that may work in your amp, but others that won't.  There are databases on line that give functional equivalent lists of tube types.


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## awesomebob

Ahhhhh..... Thank you


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