# M2Tech HiFace 2?



## ROBSCIX

I was surprised nobody seemed to have mentioned this yet.
  According to the information, the unit supports USB Audio 2.0 so is supported out of the box.  ASIO is also supported and you Linux guys are in luck also.
   
  Is anybody here interested in this?


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## Patu

http://www.m2tech.biz/hiface2.html
   
  There's some more info about it. Interesting product definitely. I'll try it out when my local dealer gets them.


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## tranhieu

It's 199$ over there in Australia. If it's better than the original Hiface I'm sold.


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## tranhieu

The Hiface 2 came in the mail today, looks no different from the 1st version. Unfortunately I am hundred miles away from my DAC so the comparison with the Hiface 1 has to wait another 2 weeks. However rumor has it that this new chap is way better than its brother so I'm very excited now.
  oh well, back to work. Driver installed smoothly and foobar recognized the new toy btw.


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## realmassy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *tranhieu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> However rumor has it that this new chap is way better than its brother so I'm very excited now.


 

 It really is. I got it in the mail today, plugged in my Mac Mini and it's been immediately recognised. Good thing, it supports PureMusic integer mode.
  And it sounds excellent. I'm probably biased towards M2Tech products having a Young and a Palmer, but this little toy is pretty good. The BNC input of the Young sounds different than the USB, but I'm not clear yet where the difference is.
  BTW, I didn't like the first Hiface, in my previous setup the Halide Bridge was superior.


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## tranhieu

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> It really is. I got it in the mail today, plugged in my Mac Mini and it's been immediately recognised. Good thing, it supports PureMusic integer mode.
> And it sounds excellent. I'm probably biased towards M2Tech products having a Young and a Palmer, but this little toy is pretty good. The BNC input of the Young sounds different than the USB, but I'm not clear yet where the difference is.
> BTW, I didn't like the first Hiface, in my previous setup the Halide Bridge was superior.


 


  thanks, rumor confirmed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 btw how does it stand next to your Bridge?


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## realmassy

I no longer have the Bridge. I sold it when I bought the Young, because its USB input was better, to my ears.
  So, if the Hiface Two is at least as good as the Young...


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## tranhieu

is it? is it? now you made me wanna take the first train back home to test it out!


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## realmassy

Quote: 





tranhieu said:


> is it? is it? now you made me wanna take the first train back home to test it out!


 
   
  I think so. I don't know if it's because of the USB implementation of the Hiface Two, or the BNC implementation of the Young (USB and SPDIF input are completely different in this DAC), or  PureMusic Integer Mode.

 Differences are obviously subtle, but are there: I've been listening to Beethoven Op. 127, Takacs Quartet, and sound is live, rich, with better separation. But there's no artificial air between instruments, if you see what I mean. There's more contrast instead. Tonally I can't hear differences, but for timbre accuracy I probably prefer the Hiface Two.
  Young's USB input is smoother, more relaxed, but that doesn't mean the Hiface Two sounds harsh. And probably the Hiface can be tweaked with an external PSU or a better digital cable.
  I'm extremely happy so far.


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## WarrenR

Hi Realmassey.
   
  How much was the HiFace 2 and did you get it from Purite Audio?


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## tranhieu

Quote: 





warrenr said:


> Hi Realmassey.
> 
> How much was the HiFace 2 and did you get it from Purite Audio?


 


  It's 140gbp shipped with tax included. I also got it from Purité, just shoot Keith an email. He's an extremely nice guy.


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## WarrenR

I've just spoke to Keith.  He has one in stock.
   
  Do you think it will be much of an upgrade over the original V-Link?
   
  I remember reading that the HiFace 1 had a harsh characteristic and there was an issue about the quality of clocks being used in later batches. 
   
  I've asked Keith if he will do a home trial.
   
  So we shall see.
   
  Cheers.


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## realmassy

Quote: 





warrenr said:


> Hi Realmassey.
> 
> How much was the HiFace 2 and did you get it from Purite Audio?


 
   
   
   
  Got it as home trial from Keith, as tranhieu said. Price is £140.
  Problem with home trials is I always end up buying them 

   
  Quote: 





warrenr said:


> I've just spoke to Keith.  He has one in stock.
> 
> Do you think it will be much of an upgrade over the original V-Link?
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've never tried the V-Link, so I have no idea. But as I said, I didn't like the Hiface 1 either. I don't think the Hiface 2 is harsh, but home trial is the way to go


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## WarrenR

Cool.
   
  I seem to remember that the old HiFace needed to use attenuators to control the output.  Is that still the case?
   
  Cheers.


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## WarrenR

I think I'm going to give this a miss.
   
  I don't think it will be much of a step up over my V-Link, just different.
   
  I'm going to wait for more feedback and reviews before committing.
   
  Cheers.


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## TheShaman

Nope. Not needed.
  
  Quote: 





warrenr said:


> Cool.
> 
> I seem to remember that the old HiFace needed to use attenuators to control the output.  Is that still the case?
> 
> Cheers.


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## realmassy

Quote: 





warrenr said:


> I think I'm going to give this a miss.
> 
> I don't think it will be much of a step up over my V-Link, just different.
> 
> ...


 

 Bear in mind no USB/SPDIF converter is going to "sound". The result will always depend on the DAC you're using, and on how it reacts to level of jitter the converter "produces"


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## WarrenR

Hey.

I took a chance on the Hiface. I should receive it on Thursday. I'm interested to hear if there is a difference between this and the V-link. Keith said I can have a refund if I'm not happy 

Plus I can have a good listen to it over Easter. 

Will keep you posted.


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## realmassy

Cool!
  I'm curious to know your thoughts about it.
  A suggestion: the Hiface puts a lot of stress on the USB port of my MacMini (but I guess it's the same for a standard PC). Use a swivel USB adapter so you can direct the cable towards the dac.


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## WarrenR

Hi Realmassey.
   
  Thanks for the tip about the USB port.  I have my dac and mini on a sound organisation stand and the dac is directly below it, so hopefully it won't put much stress on it.  I will also gaffa the lead to the shelf so it isn't pulling on the usb socket.


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## tranhieu

I would second an usb extension, a good cheap 1.8m belkin should do the job, that way you can turn your Hiface into a Bridge. I have been using my Hiface 1 for a year with one after finding the weight of the unit and the coaxial cable put too much stress on my laptop's usb port. I can alway crack open the Hiface to fix its usb but my laptop is another story.


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## realmassy

I was looking for a BNC adapter to connect the Hiface directly to the dac but haven't found any: any link to share?


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## tranhieu

^ there was a thread here about modding the hiface by Jkenny, you can find the link there, I was thinking about purchasing one but decided to go for rca in the end.


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## WarrenR

Yeah I plumped for the RCA.  Haven't got a BNC cable and wouldn't for the life of me know how to fix one up.


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## WarrenR

Just a quick update. 
   
  I have just managed to install the HiFace 2 on my mac and get it set up with Pure Music.   I'm running it in Hog Mode.   
   
  Its connected to a Rega Dac.
   
  Previously I was using a V-Link.
   
   
  Well first impressions are OMG!!  A veil has been lifted!  The haze has gone!
   
  I put on David Bowie Outside, basically because I have found the mix on some of the tracks to be hazy and confused.  Now I've always been unsure if it was the V-Link or the DAC that was the problem.  Well straight away from the first track I knew it was the V-Link - the mix came alive!
   
  The background voices that were previously muffled were perfectly clear!  I could hear new things in the mix - it like I was peeling away all the haze and hash of the V-Link and getting a deeper insight into the mix of each song.  The bass was more textured and powerful.  Bowie's voice took on a life like quality that, during the track 'A Small Plot of Land', it was like he was in the room!  I could hear all the nuances of the guitar solo on 'Strangers When We Meet' that put a big grin on my face.  I could hear backing vocals that I had not heard before.  The list could go on.
   
  I've only managed to listen to four tracks tonight because I started late and I don't play stuff after 9pm because of the neighbours.  But first impressions are extremely positive.  Its like I've bought a new DAC.
   
  I can't wait to have another listen tomorrow!
   
  On a negative note Pure Music crashed when I chose another song, which it never did with the V-Link.  I hope its just a one off.
   
  Thanks.


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## realmassy

Good good good, I'm happy your first impressions are positive.
  It's amazing how important the transport is, sometimes I can hear smaller changes between dacs than swapping a SUB to SPDIF converter.


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## WarrenR

I know I'm well chuffed.
   
  I almost took a pass on it as well because I was sceptical of the improvements offered.  I was thinking 'ah well I can always send it back for a refund la la la'.  Then bam!!
   
  Bloody hell if it sounds this good with the Bowie album that sounded grainy and congested with the V-Link what about stuff that sounded half decent with the V-Link!!
   
  I think I may well have saved myself £400 over the Audiophilleo, which was on my radar for a summer purchase.  I know the Audiophilleo will sound better than the HiFace Two, but is it worth £400 to get that improvement??  I'm not so sure now.
   
  Anyway its still early days and I'm getting ahead of myself.
   
  Lots more listening still to do.
   
  Take it easy.


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## Mynaim

Quote: 





warrenr said:


> .  I know the Audiophilleo will sound better than the HiFace Two, but is it worth £400 to get that improvement??  I'm not so sure now.


 

 Hey, 
   
  Are we sure the Audiophilleo will sound better ? AFAIK Stello U3 and Audiophilleo play in the same league, and Hiface Two has pretty much the same hardware than the Stello. so ?
   
  Cheers


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## BrightSpark

Quote: 





mynaim said:


> Hey,
> 
> Are we sure the Audiophilleo will sound better ? AFAIK Stello U3 and Audiophilleo play in the same league, and Hiface Two has pretty much the same hardware than the Stello. So ?
> 
> Cheers


 
   
  We know the new, and more expensive, V-link 192 uses the XMOS RISC processor, but I'm not clear if it has any from of  galvantic isolation, the original V-Link had neither.  

 We also know the Stello U3 is based around the XMOS RISC processor and has galvantic isolation, but what is the HIface Two design based on?  Their web page(s) don't give much way. 
   
  Perhaps Linux users can get some more info about the device with the terminal commands:
   
  lsusb -v
   
  and
   
  cat /proc/asound/xxxx/stream0             (where xxxx must be replaced by the Hiface device name, whatever that might be)


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## Mynaim

Quote: 





brightspark said:


> We know the new, and more expensive, V-link 192 uses the XMOS RISC processor, but I'm not clear if it has any from of  galvantic isolation, the original V-Link had neither.
> 
> We also know the Stello U3 is based around the XMOS RISC processor and has galvantic isolation, but what is the HIface Two design based on?  Their web page(s) don't give much way.
> 
> ...


 

 Understood the new hiface is based on the same XMOS chip (not 100% sure)


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## BrightSpark

Quote: 





mynaim said:


> Understood the new hiface is based on the same XMOS chip (but not 100% sure)


 


  Hmm,  £140 seems a low price for a XMOS based device.  Hopefully real world use might provide some feedback on this.  And there's always Jkenny whose DACs etc are based on modded original Hiface. I wonder if he will have any interest in the new Hiface Two.


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## Mynaim

Look at this post 03/27/2012 @11.19 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/M2TECH-HiFace-2
   
  Pretty sure JKeny will work on the new version as the bulk one seems to sound a lot better


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## BrightSpark

Thanks for the link, I dropped JKeny an email via his site to ask if he has any interest in incorporating the Hiface Two in his products. 
   
  Only one person on that thread mentions XMOS, but based on what?


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## blubliss

He just replied to me that he has no plans.


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## Audioexcels

Quote: 





blubliss said:


> He just replied to me that he has no plans.


 


  So if this thing beats the modded Kenny, will he re-consider?


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## Audioexcels

Quote: 





mynaim said:


> Hey,
> 
> Are we sure the Audiophilleo will sound better ? AFAIK Stello U3 and Audiophilleo play in the same league, and Hiface Two has pretty much the same hardware than the Stello. so ?
> 
> Cheers


 


  It could sound better than the Audiophilleo and Stello and leaves a ton of room for an Aqvox PS, Vaunix Hub, etc. etc. if one should go that far...


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## realmassy

I never heard of Vaunix hubs...holy s###: $200???


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## WarrenR

Interesting thing is that in the hiface2 manual it mentions that it can be used with clean power pack like the AQVOX USB power pack. 

Strange thing is I know some people over at computer audiophile tried this with the first Hiface and reported no improvement. 

Maybe the new hiface has fixed this issue and can be improved even further.

I'm very tempted to pick up a AQVOX soon.


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## WarrenR

I think this thing is a bargain at £140.
   
  It must be the best VFM converter on the market now by a long way.  The only thing that is similar is the V-Link 192, but that is almost £100 more at £225.
   
  I'd love to hear a shoot about between those two.


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## Audioexcels

Quote: 





warrenr said:


> I think this thing is a bargain at £140.
> 
> It must be the best VFM converter on the market now by a long way.  The only thing that is similar is the V-Link 192, but that is almost £100 more at £225.
> 
> I'd love to hear a shoot about between those two.


 


  I don't think price should ever be a consideration when comparing products.  Most high end $$$$$ is garbage to my ears.  If the Hiface Two can beat the Young, that's enough to "easily" beat any converter out there w/exception of the Empirical Off Ramp or Diverter, maybe the Audiophilleo in spite it sounded horrible in my system.
   
  If the power supply did nothing for the first Hiface or it was too subtle to be so clearly night/day, it should not have any affect on the newer Hiface.  The Aqvox should have helped with the original version far more than it would help with this one especially with the original one being inferior to this one.
   
  Oh, and Vaunix is serious money for some $10 Chinese Parts device.  Sure, it's a heavy duty piece, but get real with the pricing.  Same with the Aqvox...and so many other products of theirs.  They got heaps of re-sale money down their pockets if they can sell even 100 of these things...


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## WarrenR

Yeah I sort of agree but surely the Audiophilleo at £450 my end including import taxes would beat the HiFace??  Maybe I'm missing something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I would love to hear the AP just out of curiosity.
   
  Have you tried the AP?  Did it not gel with your system??
   
  I may also have been wrong about the original Hiface and the AQVOX.  I've read some positive comments regarding this combo.  
   
  Tempted to pick up a AQVOX next month when I get paid.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> I don't think price should ever be a consideration when comparing products.  Most high end $$$$$ is garbage to my ears.  If the Hiface Two can beat the Young, that's enough to "easily" beat any converter out there w/exception of the Empirical Off Ramp or Diverter, maybe the Audiophilleo in spite it sounded horrible in my system.
> 
> If the power supply did nothing for the first Hiface or it was too subtle to be so clearly night/day, it should not have any affect on the newer Hiface.  The Aqvox should have helped with the original version far more than it would help with this one especially with the original one being inferior to this one.
> 
> Oh, and Vaunix is serious money for some $10 Chinese Parts device.  Sure, it's a heavy duty piece, but get real with the pricing.  Same with the Aqvox...and so many other products of theirs.  They got heaps of re-sale money down their pockets if they can sell even 100 of these things...


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## tranhieu

Just got home from the long journey and the first thing I did after putting my suitcase away was to power up the Hiface 2, and within the 1st few seconds I had to ask myself was I hearing things?! The Hiface 2 is better than the original Hiface, a lot better. Deeper, less bloated bass, decay is improved, along with its sense of space, I mean I now can 'feel' the bass a lot better even from my old rusty w100. Soundstage is also improved, but the most significant improvement lies in imaging realm. Things are now a lot clearer, more transparent, yet there's no coloring in sight. That's exactly what I expect from a good transport. Mids and highs are also take a step up from the original Hiface. There're also plenty of details to hear, the Hiface 2 sure brings back memories when I first powered up my balanced B22, though the amount of detail now is not as striking but the feeling I have now is not too far off.
   
  I don't know if the Hiface 2 is qualified to be called 'hiend' but it sure brings my B24 + B22 to another level. Those guys at M2tech sure knows what they are doing.


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## Audioexcels

Quote: 





warrenr said:


> Yeah I sort of agree but surely the Audiophilleo at £450 my end including import taxes would beat the HiFace??  Maybe I'm missing something
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  My experience with the AP2 is not a good one, but I also kinda feel like I shoulda tried it with my Coax cable.  I think my coax cable is exceptional and may even be better in spite I do favor that direct connect since I'm an all in one solution type person.  But others have said direct connect is best, so I can only say well, it didn't work for me.  It's geared at maybe people that need more detail from their systems and sacrifice things that are important at least to me.  Detail wise, aside from the harsh mid-treble I heard, it indeed has this clarity that bested the Hiface 1, but at the same time, it made my speakers almost sound like they became horn drivers with metal cones overnight (super mega nastiness)).  Maybe it is all a system synergy thing in the end, but I listened to it vs. the Off-Ramp 5 at Empirical's place and the Off-Ramp made the AP2 sound aweful.  But it still means nothing to me because in spite that mid-treble harshness was not present in the Off-Ramp, the AP2 did sound more relaxed, very weak detail/bold presentation wise, etc. which means that AP2 making a horn loading aggressive sound in my system may be like 10X that with the Off-Ramp in there).


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## Audioexcels

Quote: 





tranhieu said:


> Just got home from the long journey and the first thing I did after putting my suitcase away was to power up the Hiface 2, and within the 1st few seconds I had to ask myself was I hearing things?! The Hiface 2 is better than the original Hiface, a lot better. Deeper, less bloated bass, decay is improved, along with its sense of space, I mean I now can 'feel' the bass a lot better even from my old rusty w100. Soundstage is also improved, but the most significant improvement lies in imaging realm. Things are now a lot clearer, more transparent, yet there's no coloring in sight. That's exactly what I expect from a good transport. Mids and highs are also take a step up from the original Hiface. There're also plenty of details to hear, the Hiface 2 sure brings back memories when I first powered up my balanced B22, though the amount of detail now is not as striking but the feeling I have now is not too far off.
> 
> I don't know if the Hiface 2 is qualified to be called 'hiend' but it sure brings my B24 + B22 to another level. Those guys at M2tech sure knows what they are doing.


 

 Good stuff to hear  Personally, I feel hi-end is when you are at a point that you are convinced the differences between things only become a thing of subtlety and no longer a night/day type of one.  I mean, when most all devices you are using, regardless of what they cost, can have some differences in their "flavor", but all are doing a competent enough job that it leaves it up to your liking for the speakers/room or headphones and not the equipment if this makes sense.


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## Sonic77

I just purchased the M Tech Hi Face 2 converter. I owned the first one, but returned it. I wrote to the manufacture in Italy, and to my surprise got a response, this was about a year ago or so, the guy was really friendly, and answered my questions and heard my complaints about the first Hi Face. He told me they were working on upgraded products and to try those when they came out, so here I am again. I can't wait to check it out, it should be great from the early reviews I am hearing. I'll update this when I receive the item and I have a chance to listen.


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## Mynaim

Quote: 





brightspark said:


> We know the new, and more expensive, V-link 192 uses the XMOS RISC processor, but I'm not clear if it has any from of  galvantic isolation, the original V-Link had neither.
> 
> We also know the Stello U3 is based around the XMOS RISC processor and has galvantic isolation, but what is the HIface Two design based on?  Their web page(s) don't give much way.
> 
> ...


 
  cat/proc/asound/card1/stream0 :
  
  M2Tech M2Tech USB Audio 2.0 at usb-0000:00:1a.7-3, high speed : USB Audio

 Playback:
   Status: Running
     Interface = 1
     Altset = 1
     URBs = 8 [ 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 ]
     Packet Size = 1024
     Momentary freq = 44100 Hz (0x5.8330)
     Feedback Format = 16.16
   Interface 1
     Altset 1
     Format: S32_LE
     Channels: 2
     Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)
     Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000
     Data packet interval: 125 us


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## Mynaim

lsusb -v on the card you want :
   
  Bus 001 Device 006: ID 249c:930b  
 Device Descriptor:
   bLength                18
   bDescriptorType         1
   bcdUSB               2.00
   bDeviceClass          239 Miscellaneous Device
   bDeviceSubClass         2 ?
   bDeviceProtocol         1 Interface Association
   bMaxPacketSize0        64
   idVendor           0x249c
   idProduct          0x930b
   bcdDevice            2.10
   iManufacturer           1 M2Tech
   iProduct                2 M2Tech USB Audio 2.0
   iSerial                 3 0000
   bNumConfigurations      2
   Configuration Descriptor:
     bLength                 9
     bDescriptorType         2
     wTotalLength          185
     bNumInterfaces          3
     bConfigurationValue     1
     iConfiguration          0
     bmAttributes         0x80
       (Bus Powered)
     MaxPower              500mA
     Interface Association:
       bLength                 8
       bDescriptorType        11
       bFirstInterface         0
       bInterfaceCount         2
       bFunctionClass          1 Audio
       bFunctionSubClass       0
       bFunctionProtocol      32
       iFunction               0
     Interface Descriptor:
       bLength                 9
       bDescriptorType         4
       bInterfaceNumber        0
       bAlternateSetting       0
       bNumEndpoints           1
       bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
       bInterfaceSubClass      1 Control Device
       bInterfaceProtocol     32
       iInterface              2 M2Tech USB Audio 2.0
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                 9
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      1 (HEADER)
         bcdADC               2.00
         bCategory               8
         wTotalLength           72
         bmControl            0x00
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                 8
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype     10 (CLOCK_SOURCE)
         bClockID               41
         bmAttributes         0x03 Internal programmable Clock
         bmControls           0x07
           Clock Frequency Control (read/write)
           Clock Validity Control (read-only)
         bAssocTerminal          0
         iClockSource            9 M2Tech Internal Clock
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                 8
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype     11 (CLOCK_SELECTOR)
         bUnitID                40
         bNrInPins               1
         baCSourceID( 0)        41
         bmControls           0x03
           Clock Selector Control (read/write)
         iClockSelector          8 M2Tech Clock Selector
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                17
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      2 (INPUT_TERMINAL)
         bTerminalID             2
         wTerminalType      0x0101 USB Streaming
         bAssocTerminal          0
         bCSourceID             40
         bNrChannels             2
         bmChannelConfig   0x00000000
         bmControls    0x0000
         iChannelNames          15 Analogue 1
         iTerminal               6 M2Tech Audio 2.0 Output
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                18
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      6 (FEATURE_UNIT)
         bUnitID                10
         bSourceID               2
         bmaControls( 0)      0x0000000f
           Mute Control (read/write)
           Volume Control (read/write)
         bmaControls( 1)      0x0000000f
           Mute Control (read/write)
           Volume Control (read/write)
         bmaControls( 2)      0x0000000f
           Mute Control (read/write)
           Volume Control (read/write)
         iFeature                0
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                12
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      3 (OUTPUT_TERMINAL)
         bTerminalID            20
         wTerminalType      0x0301 Speaker
         bAssocTerminal          0
         bSourceID              10
         bCSourceID             40
         bmControls         0x0000
         iTerminal               0
       Endpoint Descriptor:
         bLength                 7
         bDescriptorType         5
         bEndpointAddress     0x84  EP 4 IN
         bmAttributes            3
           Transfer Type            Interrupt
           Synch Type               None
           Usage Type               Data
         wMaxPacketSize     0x0006  1x 6 bytes
         bInterval               8
     Interface Descriptor:
       bLength                 9
       bDescriptorType         4
       bInterfaceNumber        1
       bAlternateSetting       0
       bNumEndpoints           0
       bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
       bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
       bInterfaceProtocol     32
       iInterface              4 M2Tech USB 2.0 Audio Out
     Interface Descriptor:
       bLength                 9
       bDescriptorType         4
       bInterfaceNumber        1
       bAlternateSetting       1
       bNumEndpoints           2
       bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
       bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
       bInterfaceProtocol     32
       iInterface              4 M2Tech USB 2.0 Audio Out
       AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                16
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      1 (AS_GENERAL)
         bTerminalLink           2
         bmControls           0x00
         bFormatType             1
         bmFormats               1
           PCM
         bNrChannels             2
         bmChannelConfig   0x00000000
         iChannelNames          15 Analogue 1
       AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                 6
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      2 (FORMAT_TYPE)
         bFormatType             1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I)
         bSubslotSize            4
         bBitResolution         24
       Endpoint Descriptor:
         bLength                 7
         bDescriptorType         5
         bEndpointAddress     0x01  EP 1 OUT
         bmAttributes            5
           Transfer Type            Isochronous
           Synch Type               Asynchronous
           Usage Type               Data
         wMaxPacketSize     0x0400  1x 1024 bytes
         bInterval               1
         AudioControl Endpoint Descriptor:
           bLength                 8
           bDescriptorType        37
           bDescriptorSubtype      1 (EP_GENERAL)
           bmAttributes         0x00
           bmControls           0x00
           bLockDelayUnits         2 Decoded PCM samples
           wLockDelay              8
       Endpoint Descriptor:
         bLength                 7
         bDescriptorType         5
         bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
         bmAttributes           17
           Transfer Type            Isochronous
           Synch Type               None
           Usage Type               Feedback
         wMaxPacketSize     0x0004  1x 4 bytes
         bInterval               4
     Interface Descriptor:
       bLength                 9
       bDescriptorType         4
       bInterfaceNumber        2
       bAlternateSetting       0
       bNumEndpoints           0
       bInterfaceClass       254 Application Specific Interface
       bInterfaceSubClass      1 Device Firmware Update
       bInterfaceProtocol      1
       iInterface             12 M2Tech DFU
       Device Firmware Upgrade Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                             9
         bDescriptorType                    33
         bmAttributes                        7
           Will Not Detach
           Manifestation Tolerant
           Upload Supported
           Download Supported
         wDetachTimeout                    250 milliseconds
         wTransferSize                      64 bytes
         bcdDFUVersion                   1.10
   Configuration Descriptor:
     bLength                 9
     bDescriptorType         2
     wTotalLength          185
     bNumInterfaces          3
     bConfigurationValue     1
     iConfiguration          0
     bmAttributes         0x80
       (Bus Powered)
     MaxPower              500mA
     Interface Association:
       bLength                 8
       bDescriptorType        11
       bFirstInterface         0
       bInterfaceCount         2
       bFunctionClass          1 Audio
       bFunctionSubClass       0
       bFunctionProtocol      32
       iFunction               0
     Interface Descriptor:
       bLength                 9
       bDescriptorType         4
       bInterfaceNumber        0
       bAlternateSetting       0
       bNumEndpoints           1
       bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
       bInterfaceSubClass      1 Control Device
       bInterfaceProtocol     32
       iInterface              2 M2Tech USB Audio 2.0
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                 9
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      1 (HEADER)
         bcdADC               2.00
         bCategory               8
         wTotalLength           72
         bmControl            0x00
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                 8
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype     10 (CLOCK_SOURCE)
         bClockID               41
         bmAttributes         0x03 Internal programmable Clock
         bmControls           0x07
           Clock Frequency Control (read/write)
           Clock Validity Control (read-only)
         bAssocTerminal          0
         iClockSource            9 M2Tech Internal Clock
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                 8
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype     11 (CLOCK_SELECTOR)
         bUnitID                40
         bNrInPins               1
         baCSourceID( 0)        41
         bmControls           0x03
           Clock Selector Control (read/write)
         iClockSelector          8 M2Tech Clock Selector
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                17
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      2 (INPUT_TERMINAL)
         bTerminalID             2
         wTerminalType      0x0101 USB Streaming
         bAssocTerminal          0
         bCSourceID             40
         bNrChannels             2
         bmChannelConfig   0x00000000
         bmControls    0x0000
         iChannelNames          15 Analogue 1
         iTerminal               6 M2Tech Audio 2.0 Output
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                18
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      6 (FEATURE_UNIT)
         bUnitID                10
         bSourceID               2
         bmaControls( 0)      0x0000000f
           Mute Control (read/write)
           Volume Control (read/write)
         bmaControls( 1)      0x0000000f
           Mute Control (read/write)
           Volume Control (read/write)
         bmaControls( 2)      0x0000000f
           Mute Control (read/write)
           Volume Control (read/write)
         iFeature                0
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                12
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      3 (OUTPUT_TERMINAL)
         bTerminalID            20
         wTerminalType      0x0301 Speaker
         bAssocTerminal          0
         bSourceID              10
         bCSourceID             40
         bmControls         0x0000
         iTerminal               0
       Endpoint Descriptor:
         bLength                 7
         bDescriptorType         5
         bEndpointAddress     0x84  EP 4 IN
         bmAttributes            3
           Transfer Type            Interrupt
           Synch Type               None
           Usage Type               Data
         wMaxPacketSize     0x0006  1x 6 bytes
         bInterval               8
     Interface Descriptor:
       bLength                 9
       bDescriptorType         4
       bInterfaceNumber        1
       bAlternateSetting       0
       bNumEndpoints           0
       bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
       bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
       bInterfaceProtocol     32
       iInterface              4 M2Tech USB 2.0 Audio Out
     Interface Descriptor:
       bLength                 9
       bDescriptorType         4
       bInterfaceNumber        1
       bAlternateSetting       1
       bNumEndpoints           2
       bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
       bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
       bInterfaceProtocol     32
       iInterface              4 M2Tech USB 2.0 Audio Out
       AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                16
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      1 (AS_GENERAL)
         bTerminalLink           2
         bmControls           0x00
         bFormatType             1
         bmFormats               1
           PCM
         bNrChannels             2
         bmChannelConfig   0x00000000
         iChannelNames          15 Analogue 1
       AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                 6
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      2 (FORMAT_TYPE)
         bFormatType             1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I)
         bSubslotSize            4
         bBitResolution         24
       Endpoint Descriptor:
         bLength                 7
         bDescriptorType         5
         bEndpointAddress     0x01  EP 1 OUT
         bmAttributes            5
           Transfer Type            Isochronous
           Synch Type               Asynchronous
           Usage Type               Data
         wMaxPacketSize     0x0400  1x 1024 bytes
         bInterval               1
         AudioControl Endpoint Descriptor:
           bLength                 8
           bDescriptorType        37
           bDescriptorSubtype      1 (EP_GENERAL)
           bmAttributes         0x00
           bmControls           0x00
           bLockDelayUnits         2 Decoded PCM samples
           wLockDelay              8
       Endpoint Descriptor:
         bLength                 7
         bDescriptorType         5
         bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
         bmAttributes           17
           Transfer Type            Isochronous
           Synch Type               None
           Usage Type               Feedback
         wMaxPacketSize     0x0004  1x 4 bytes
         bInterval               4
     Interface Descriptor:
       bLength                 9
       bDescriptorType         4
       bInterfaceNumber        2
       bAlternateSetting       0
       bNumEndpoints           0
       bInterfaceClass       254 Application Specific Interface
       bInterfaceSubClass      1 Device Firmware Update
       bInterfaceProtocol      1
       iInterface             12 M2Tech DFU
       Device Firmware Upgrade Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                             9
         bDescriptorType                    33
         bmAttributes                        7
           Will Not Detach
           Manifestation Tolerant
           Upload Supported
           Download Supported
         wDetachTimeout                    250 milliseconds
         wTransferSize                      64 bytes
         bcdDFUVersion                   1.10
 Device Qualifier (for other device speed):
   bLength                10
   bDescriptorType         6
   bcdUSB               2.00
   bDeviceClass            0 (Defined at Interface level)
   bDeviceSubClass         0
   bDeviceProtocol         0
   bMaxPacketSize0        64
   bNumConfigurations      1
 Device Status:     0x0000
   (Bus Powered)


----------



## cladisch

> what is the HIface Two design based on?  Their web page(s) don't give much way.
> 
> Perhaps Linux users can get some more info about the device with the terminal commands:


 

 The USB descriptors don't tell much.
   
  The Windows driver, however, is from Thesycon, which means that the chip is _not_ from C-Media or Archwave, who have their own drivers.
   
  I don't know of any USB Audio Class 2.0 chips except those from these companies and XMOS.


----------



## BrightSpark

Mynaim,
   
  Many thanks for posting that Linux output,  cf   cat/proc/asound/card1/stream0 with the V-Link:
   
cat /proc/asound/VLink/stream0
 Musical Fidelity Musical Fidelity V-Link at usb-0000:00:02.0-1, full speed : USB Audio
  
 Playback:
  Status: Running
    Interface = 1
    Altset = 1
    URBs = 3 [ 8 8 8 ]
    Packet Size = 582
    Momentary freq = 44100 Hz (0x2c.1998)
  Interface 1
    Altset 1
    Format: S24_3LE
    Channels: 2
    Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)
    Rates: 32000, 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000
  
 and 
  
 M2Tech M2Tech USB Audio 2.0 at usb-0000:00:1a.7-3, high speed : USB Audio

 Playback:
   Status: Running
     Interface = 1
     Altset = 1
     URBs = 8 [ 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 ]
     Packet Size = 1024
     Momentary freq = 44100 Hz (0x5.8330)
     Feedback Format = 16.16
   Interface 1
     Altset 1
     Format: S32_LE
     Channels: 2
     Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)
     Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000
     Data packet interval: 125 us
  
  
 Quite different.  As the native format appears to be S32_LE, I assume the device will be addressed as "plughw:x,y" and not "hw:x,y" in ALSA for redbook and 24/96 hirez audio files.   No clue from USB data as to whether this is using an XMOS chip, but cladish's info points that way.


----------



## Mynaim

Hi Both, 
   
  A friend of mine just confirmed (from a reliable source) it is a XMOS chip


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





mynaim said:


> Hi Both,
> 
> A friend of mine just confirmed (from a reliable source) it is a XMOS chip


 


  What difference would it make what chip is inside it?  Just curious if it's something that's helpful for Linux users or?

 Thanks!


----------



## Sonic77

Ok just received my MTech Hi Face 2. Initial impressions, are fantastic, lots of detail, lots of low end, all around great, my son and I were floored. My DAC is a Yulong D18, I use J River, with Magnepan 1.6 speakers, my amps are XPA-1's. For kicks I am running it thru my tube preamp Grant Fidelity P-307. Voices are right in front of you with all the raspy details, finger snaps and hand claps seem to be 3D like. I am very happy with this product. I have the original V-Link and musiland monitor 3 that I use as a usb to a spdif converter.


----------



## Ektalog

Sonic, I have modded MMGs and a Musiland 02.
   
  The Musiland 02 is about to be further modded (a hobby thing). I use its USB>analog outs> to line-level bi-amp xover. Though not the last word in smoothness, even in stock fashion it is one spacious 3D imaging devil...then again, Maggies do this well if given just half a chance. Still, the Musiland 02 holds layering on the soundstage with strength that belies its price. This is using cPlay at 192khz, mostly upsampling on Red Book or at native hi rez files stuff.
   
  I am currently looking into this new M2Tech as well as the Musiland 03. Your comparison will be much appreciated.


----------



## Mynaim

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> What difference would it make what chip is inside it?  Just curious if it's something that's helpful for Linux users or?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 XMOS chip will guarantee that you are fully USB 2.0 Audio compliant, hence for Linux users is a no brainer


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





mynaim said:


> XMOS chip will guarantee that you are fully USB 2.0 Audio compliant, hence for Linux users is a no brainer


 


  Gotcha.  Didn't that Alix concept use an XMOS concept too?  I know that was and maybe is still a pretty hot thing going for the Linux users?  Good thing you have a simple plug n' play like this now!


----------



## Mynaim

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Gotcha.  Didn't that Alix concept use an XMOS concept too?  I know that was and maybe is still a pretty hot thing going for the Linux users?  Good thing you have a simple plug n' play like this now!


 

  
  AFAIK Alix are only fanless/lower consumption computers with no screen/keyboard. Then you need to handle the USB signal


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





mynaim said:


> AFAIK Alix are only fanless/lower consumption computers with no screen/keyboard. Then you need to handle the USB signal


 


  Gotcha.  Thanks for the info.  I got my Hiface 2 today.  Sounds very good and is "different" than the original Hiface.  Wouldn't say it is leaps ahead of the original, but does sound better to me.  I'm beginning to think more and more that it's all the pre-dac vs. whatever transport I use.  I honestly can barely hear any differences having used many sources with this pre-dac.  I used to be able to hear quite dramatic differences between standalone cd players, but transports, no...very subtle, like rolling an output tube on an amp or something...


----------



## kingoftown1

Quote: 





sonic77 said:


> Ok just received my MTech Hi Face 2. Initial impressions, are fantastic, lots of detail, lots of low end, all around great, my son and I were floored. My DAC is a Yulong D18, I use J River, with Magnepan 1.6 speakers, my amps are XPA-1's. For kicks I am running it thru my tube preamp Grant Fidelity P-307. Voices are right in front of you with all the raspy details, finger snaps and hand claps seem to be 3D like. I am very happy with this product. I have the original V-Link and musiland monitor 3 that I use as a usb to a spdif converter.


 
  Could you elaborate more on how it compares to the original V-Link?  I'm using it with my D18 and am wondering what kinds of improvements I'd see with an upgrade


----------



## aural bliss

what is the market price in US dollars for this? it seems to be $199


----------



## Mynaim

Hi there,
   
  A french blogger put some nice pictures on the web where you can clearly see the XMOS chip
   
http://musiq-audiophile.blogspot.fr/2012/04/m2tech-hiface-rev-20.html


----------



## tranhieu

Quote: 





mynaim said:


> Hi there,
> 
> A french blogger put some nice pictures on the web where you can clearly see the XMOS chip
> 
> http://musiq-audiophile.blogspot.fr/2012/04/m2tech-hiface-rev-20.html


 
  thanks for the link. Now I can rest in peace.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





mynaim said:


> Hi there,
> 
> A french blogger put some nice pictures on the web where you can clearly see the XMOS chip
> 
> http://musiq-audiophile.blogspot.fr/2012/04/m2tech-hiface-rev-20.html


 

 What exactly is said about a comparison of the other converters like V-link/Audiophilleo/etc.?  Seems the person says these others are no better, but just have a 'house" sound one may or may not prefer.  It also seems the person thinks the Evo is better, but it too, depends on personal interests/music they listen to.  I'm confused as I don't know french and the Google translation isn't exactly great.


----------



## WarrenR

I tried Integer Mode with Pure Music and it works fine.  V-Link would give me some crazy break up of the sound.


----------



## WarrenR

Is anyone going to try the AQVOX then?


----------



## WarrenR

Yeah Chrome didn't do a sterling job of converting the article  I must say.
   
  Its a very positive review overall.  Obviously he says there are better products on the market at two or three times the price that bring more detail to the music, but that M2Tech should be praised for bringing out a package this affordable that sounds as good as it does.  
   
   
  Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> What exactly is said about a comparison of the other converters like V-link/Audiophilleo/etc.?  Seems the person says these others are no better, but just have a 'house" sound one may or may not prefer.  It also seems the person thinks the Evo is better, but it too, depends on personal interests/music they listen to.  I'm confused as I don't know french and the Google translation isn't exactly great.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





warrenr said:


> Yeah Chrome didn't do a sterling job of converting the article  I must say.
> 
> Its a very positive review overall.  Obviously he says there are better products on the market at two or three times the price that bring more detail to the music, but that M2Tech should be praised for bringing out a package this affordable that sounds as good as it does.


 

 Ahhh gotcha.  So what the person is really saying is because an item costs more it must sound better OR that his ears are too deaf to hear the "details" OR that his equipment/speakers are too inferior to hear the details))...Ok, I won't bag on the blogger since they seemed to do an excellent job of tearing apart things and even giving some nice info about settings and all that.  Frankly, I've tried these so called more detailed converters and I do not hear it.  Hiface 2 is easily as good as that POS Evo, though I'd say better, and is as good as the Audiophilleo, though I never did hear the Audiophilleo w/hub or battery supply.
   
  Given the amount of USB power it's sucking up, it's very likely a hub setup or dedicated PS will give you superior sound.  People on the Audiophilleo thread claim the batteries work as well or better than the Aqvox.  Actually, one person said it works better.  So I'd make a diy battery supply for super cheap and use it with the Hiface 2 and see how it does.  My guess is the sound will improve, but don't expect miracles.  I.E. Will definitely help with that nasty USB power, but will not take a good product and make it into something astounding an unreal sounding or whatever.  The other thing I'd strongly suggest is some attenuation as I already mentioned.  Put as much attenuation onto the SPDIF as possible (while still maintaining a lock to your dac), then use the battery supply, and it should be as good as it can be short of someone taking it and modding it with super high end clocks, a big robust PS, totally different design, yadda yadda yadda.  For us that want bang for buck, stock unit is darn good, but the very cheap diy battery supply and cheap attenuators will do the trick.


----------



## tranhieu

^ Pardon my ignorance but why do you need an attenuator for a usb-spdif converter?
  And anyone considers the Salas? It can be wired for 5v output and is somehow a standard in diyaudio.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





tranhieu said:


> ^ Pardon my ignorance but why do you need an attenuator for a usb-spdif converter?
> And anyone considers the Salas? It can be wired for 5v output and is somehow a standard in diyaudio.


 


  It helps with digital reflections, also helps attenuate the signal.  I need to find a better link but I'm too lazy.  If you look into them, or in the Jkeny mods thread, you'll learn more about them.  People use them for any digital source via PC and all on a whole have described increased fidelity.
   
  I have not looked at the Salas, but if it's cheap and solid, I don't see why not.  IMHO, I've seen industrial 5V PS devices that look great...splice up some nice USB cabling, and there ya go!


----------



## tranhieu

Uhm... I didn't follow that thread from the beginning. Will check it out later. Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't really care about reflection in the past though since my rca cable is only 1m long.
  I thought about using the S25 for my Hiface 1 but didn't have time to hack it. However the Salas is way better in terms of performance and popularity and cost just a bit more. Someone here built a Salas to power his EVO.


----------



## leeperry

anyone could please try it over 12Mbit/s USB? That'd make it ADuM4160 friendly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  you'd just need to temporarily disable USB 2.0 support in the windows device manager, thanks in advance!


----------



## Patu

I picked up one HiFace 2 today to compare it with my Audio GD DI (with PSU). I'll give my impressions later but now I can only say that it definitely sounds better than the first HiFacec (out of memory). I also notice some difference to DI but I haven't switched back to DI yet so let's see which one sounds better in my setup. Naim DAC is very good in eliminating differences between transports.


----------



## aural bliss

where can you buy this?
   
  so far i have only found it at http://hifiheaven.net/store/M2TECH-HiFace-Two-R-USB-Hi-End-SPDIF-Output-Interface?filter_name=hiface $185


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





patu said:


> Naim DAC is very good in eliminating differences between transports.


 
  OT: how do you find the Naim?
  This DAC has been forever in my shortlist, but I had never the opportunity to listen to it


----------



## MusiqSound

Hi
   
  I have been testing for a week the hiface two and had the chance to compare to hiface 1, EVO and Stello U3. Just finished translating the article, if you want to check.
   
  this is a good piece of electronics as far as I have heard. it will most probably please poeple with common equipments, but I find it a little bit short for very good DACs.
   
http://musiq-audiophile.blogspot.fr/2012/04/m2tech-hiface-two-english-version.html
   
  regards
  musiq


----------



## fabio-fi

Quote: 





musiqsound said:


> Hi
> 
> I have been testing for a week the hiface two and had the chance to compare to hiface 1, EVO and Stello U3. Just finished translating the article, if you want to check.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nice review. I've been thinking on buying this for my 160Ds to use it via Coax.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





musiqsound said:


> Hi
> 
> I have been testing for a week the hiface two and had the chance to compare to hiface 1, EVO and Stello U3. Just finished translating the article, if you want to check.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I like it more than the Audiophilleo and the Evo sounds well, not all that great for the price.  I'd have to have one side by side the Hiface 2, but I bet the differences are only minor rather than something truly worthy.  What kind of hi-end USB converter should I be listening to and why do you say the dac should be good when my opinion is the system itself should be good?  Thanks for any pointers on more reference based USB converters OR other sources that are superior to what you have mentioned.  Thanks for the review.  It is a very good one, very straight forward and to the point even if I disagree especially with the Evo.


----------



## ManBeard

aural bliss said:


> where can you buy this?
> 
> so far i have only found it at http://hifiheaven.net/store/M2TECH-HiFace-Two-R-USB-Hi-End-SPDIF-Output-Interface?filter_name=hiface $185




TweekGeek carries it as well: http://www.tweekgeek.com/hiface-two/ same price.


----------



## MusiqSound

Quote:  





> Thanks for the review.  It is a very good one, very straight forward and to the point even if I disagree especially with the Evo.


 
   
  You are welcome. We must admit that an opinion is just an opinion. Mine through my reviews is only my personal view on the subject. There is no problem for you to have a different one or have lived a different experience with it!
   
  The EVO is not perfect for sure, it is just going a little bit farther on my opinion and also with another tonal signature.
   
  To be sure to catch the difference of the key, I used a Starlight Platinum S/PDIF cable, it is a very good one that allows to leave the musical message flow without too much harm. 
   
  The main difference is with the way the details are reproduced and also a lot with 3D and space, EVO offers a largest realistic scene as well as better depth on my test system. In the same way, for example, the Stello U3 goes even farther with micro-information and small details, when you play test tracks at -60db, -40db or 0db you will experience to hear the difference in the way the adapters behave at iso-source. You also hear the difference in background noise 
   
  I recognize that also depending on the source software, the listening experience can be VERY different... 
   
  have a good day,
  musiq


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





musiqsound said:


> You are welcome. We must admit that an opinion is just an opinion. Mine through my reviews is only my personal view on the subject. There is no problem for you to have a different one or have lived a different experience with it!
> 
> The EVO is not perfect for sure, it is just going a little bit farther on my opinion and also with another tonal signature.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks a lot musiq for your opinions and objective knowledge.  I do not think the Evo is bad, just not what I would expect for the price.  Same goes for the Audiophilleo or other $500+ stuff.  I just don't hear whatever it is that others seem to hear.  In the end, even sound cards like the Xonar ST sound equally similar.  I put down the original Hiface, but it too is not exactly much different to the point that it too would easily hold its own and fool anyone in an a/b (not strict a/b, just basic swtichbox w/equal levels).  Now one thing I have indeed noticed is these sources, whatever they may be, will have a tendency to emphasize or de-emphasize detail.  For example, the Hiface 2 seems to be more balanced/neutral all in all vs. say, a Xonar ST.  Xonar ST seems to push more midrange/lower midrange/midbass/etc. where Hiface doesn't do this as much.  So one may say the Hiface has the better upper detail because the Xonar mid "expression" is covering up some of that higher mid-treble info.  But you keep listening, and you realize, it's so darn close, even Xonar's upper detail sounds far more than adequate and not lacking vs. the Hiface 2, just as the Hiface 2 midrange not as fleshed out is actually fleshed out plenty fine.  Thing I remembered with the Audiophilleo is it had such a razor sharp mid-high range that it literally sounded like my speakers were peaking/honking and it was terribly annoying.  I can see how people with more sugar coated speakers/headphones/etc. would love the Audiophilleo for this kind of character because it certainly does something in this region to "energize" it.  The Audiophilleo is the ONLY device I have heard that actually did what it did in my system...it just did not sound right, especially when every other source was very quite even in terms of not having substantial enough differences to say what is or is not better.  Evo dd the same as the Xonar, more fleshed out, leading to that 3-D sound I think you are talking about probably because it is fleshing out the mids more, similar to vinyl)  But in the end, as I have said previously, it really comes down to what one wants to spend and obviously how each device affects the sound in their system.  For me not really hearing the differences tells me that it is greatly possible the computer is causing the issues...as in, give me a mega buck transport or just a diy transport with all the necessary upgrades to take stock to rock, and I bet this beats out anything in the PC world, though again, I'm  really not convinced since I do have some cdp's around here and they don't do something "special", but simply sound "subtle" in difference from the PC based stuff...so PC is for me, just covenience, and fact that it can sound as good as what I have heard from external transports is good enough for me to know it is plenty fine as a source.  I really do feel that once you get into a very nice dac, particularly one that has a pre-dac), and a very transparent front end, along with very transparent speakers, that source just does not phase me as having anything substantial anymore.  Maybe future will prove wrong and the source will be heard as being something I can indefinitely say makes that kind of change in sound that isn't like changing a KT88 output tube from a JJ to a Sovtek to a Svetlana, etc. etc.)

 Cheers and keep up the good work!


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





musiqsound said:


> The EVO is not perfect for sure, it is just going a little bit farther on my opinion and also with another tonal signature.


 
   
  If you think about what a usb to spdif converter is you realize that such a converter can not have a tonal signature, a timbre or anything like that.
   
  The result will always depend on the combination of the converter and the dac. Same converter will sound different on different dacs: how can it possibly sound aggressive, muffled, or harmonic rich?


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> If you think about what a usb to spdif converter is you realize that such a converter can not have a tonal signature, a timbre or anything like that.
> 
> The result will always depend on the combination of the converter and the dac. Same converter will sound different on different dacs: how can it possibly sound aggressive, muffled, or harmonic rich?


 
   
  PSU noise? The H2 is following the XMOS datasheet and has a SC4626A SMPS controller from Semtech which has a working freq of
  2.5MHz(http://www.semtech.com/images/datasheet/sc4626.pdf) feeding the XMOS chip itself. We all know how colored SMPS sound like.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> PSU noise? The H2 is following the XMOS datasheet and has a SC4626A SMPS controller from Semtech which has a working freq of
> 2.5MHz(http://www.semtech.com/images/datasheet/sc4626.pdf) feeding the XMOS chip itself. We all know how colored SMPS sound like.


 
   
  Interesting. So could that explain a converter sound signature?


----------



## MusiqSound

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> For example, the Hiface 2 seems to be more balanced/neutral all in all vs. say, a Xonar ST.  Xonar ST seems to push more midrange/lower midrange/midbass/etc. where Hiface doesn't do this as much....the Hiface 2, just as the Hiface 2 midrange not as fleshed out is actually fleshed out plenty fine.  Thing I remembered with the Audiophilleo is it had such a razor sharp mid-high range that it literally sounded like my speakers were peaking/honking and it was terribly annoying....  For me not really hearing the differences tells me that it is greatly possible the computer is causing the issues...


 
   
  This is very interesting remarks as my own test with Xonar were not that good. I recall about some kind of "projection" on midrange and it was really nice with DVDs, killer with Call of Duty  ... but not that much when streaming to the DAC!
   
  I think you are right in your analysis when you say that the fleshed feeling comes from additional midrange information out. This is part of the tonal signature of the EVO. It does not sound crystal clear such a Stello or Audiophileo. What you experienced with this one is most probably a wrong selection of USB or S/PDIF cable with your specific electronics... Those two transports are very straight and analytic. Details are sharp but do not annoy only if you have very transparent cabling. This is also the drawback you can observe with modern and top performing equipment... You hear defects easily!
   
  Now is computer part of it? I absolutely believe it. Latency results from both OS and playback software. I came to the conclusion after having done a lot of work/tests/debug with Josef from JPlay that these two elements have a HUGE influence as well. It is also what comforted me after I decided to publish a large guide on how to configure the computer for better audio performance (sorry it is in french on my web site).


----------



## Patu

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> OT: how do you find the Naim?
> This DAC has been forever in my shortlist, but I had never the opportunity to listen to it


 
   
  My whole setup is Naim so Naim DAC was a natural choice for me. It offers everything Naim has to offer, great PRaT, punchiness and clarity. It really takes you into the music. Compared to the integrated DAC in Naim SuperNait, it's on a completely different level. Integrated DAC sounds small, muffled and somehow reserved in comparison. There's just more of everything with Naim DAC. I haven't really compared it with other DACs in the same price range. We did compare it to Rega DAC in another Naim setup. Rega held its own and came really close to Naim in sound quality. Considering the price, Rega is a bargain but Naim offerend slightly more in instrument separation and punchiness. 
   
   
  Quote: 





musiqsound said:


> Hi
> 
> I have been testing for a week the hiface two and had the chance to compare to hiface 1, EVO and Stello U3. Just finished translating the article, if you want to check.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Could you tell more about the difference between Stello U3 and HiFace 2. I'll probably audition the U3 also when my local dealer gets the shipment.


----------



## MusiqSound

Quote: 





patu said:


> My whole setup is Naim so Naim DAC was a natural choice for me. It offers everything Naim has to offer, great PRaT, punchiness and clarity. It really takes you into the music. Compared to the integrated DAC in Naim SuperNait, it's on a completely different level. Integrated DAC sounds small, muffled and somehow reserved in comparison. There's just more of everything with Naim DAC. I haven't really compared it with other DACs in the same price range. We did compare it to Rega DAC in another Naim setup. Rega held its own and came really close to Naim in sound quality. Considering the price, Rega is a bargain but Naim offerend slightly more in instrument separation and punchiness.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you tell more about the difference between Stello U3 and HiFace 2. I'll probably audition the U3 also when my local dealer gets the shipment.


 
   
   
[size=10pt]My listening experience in regard to Naim DAC was close to yours. I would only be reserved towards your Rega DAC and Naim DAC [/size]comparison. To my ear it was really having a big difference, especially in the perception of the soundstage, details, it was really feeling more “achieved”; When you add the external power supply, it also raise to a new level of quality which cannot be reasonably compared.
   
[size=10pt]Regarding U3 facing hiFace 2, I happen to have the two pieces of equipment at the same time to test; switching from one to another was a bit difficult because they happen to use the same piece of software but not the same version from Thesycon… So to be sure I have added the hiFace EVO in between, compared hiface 2 to EVO, hiface 2 to U3 and EVO to U3. To be honest, even if the components are very close to each other inside (I am preparing the article on the U3 at the moment, I will publish it soon), the hiface 2 does not sound as well as the EVO which itself does not sound the same than the U3 [/size][size=10pt]J[/size][size=10pt]. In the overall, at iso-setup (computer/cables/amp/speakers) the EVO is softer and mellower than hiFace which sounds more “analytic” without the brio of  Antelope or Weiss in this register. The U3, to my ear, gives a cleaner picture than the EVO, especially in details, this is sharper and the planes are sometimes better defined. I find that the EVO is warmer in sound signature than the U3, this last one sounds sharper, one could say “cleaner”... [/size]
   
[size=10pt]So…….This is more a question of taste, in the overall I would say that these products fall in the same range, not especially “better” or “worst”. Depending on my additional tests for my article, I might change of opinion though. If ever I had a wrong setup during my first test session …the second session planned will tell! [/size]


----------



## WarrenR

Is anyone having an issue where the HiFace 2 doesn't get recognised by the mac mini after a couple of days?  I'm having to take out the HiFace and put it back into the USB socket to be recognised again.
   
  My V-Link never did this.
   
  Cheers.


----------



## realmassy

It did happen once or twice so far, nothing major though.


----------



## WarrenR

Yeah its a pain.
   
  I might fire off an email to M2Tech.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> It did happen once or twice so far, nothing major though.


 
   
  How has your Hiface been sounding and has there been any "break in"?  I'm always suspect of break in, but curious.  As another mentioned, I found some response about adding an Aqvox or other battery? based supply to help improve the sound.  Their experience with the Aqvox on a Hiface 1 was better than the Jkeny modified MK2 unit.


----------



## realmassy

Break-in? obviously none 
  I can't hear any differences, it sounded great since day 1.
  As for the external PSU, I'm curious as well, but I'm not going to be a Guinea Pig...I'm waiting for other people's feedback.


----------



## blubliss

Have you guys messed with the USB streaming method setting in the settings program.  I changed mine from safe (default) to standard to try and get jplay/jriver from making strange noises once in awhile.  Didn't help.  Don't get the noises with the Hiface 1.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Break-in? obviously none
> I can't hear any differences, it sounded great since day 1.
> As for the external PSU, I'm curious as well, but I'm not going to be a Guinea Pig...I'm waiting for other people's feedback.


 
   
  I think there's some definite theoretical benefit to get it away from the USB port because it is drawing from the port-mac/pc-etc.  But that's a 98 EUR Aqvox and that's a second Hiface just about!  As the one forum user stated, the Xmos "sound" is already "colored" so why bother right?)))))

 I personally hear no coloration and neutral is a good word IMHO.


----------



## h.rav

Just received hiFace yesterday. It's too early to make any judgement. So far, the sound is quite well rounded, lots of detail. Unlike hiFace 1, I no longer need to mess with drivers. It's simply plug and play.


----------



## DrTone

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> I think there's some definite theoretical benefit to get it away from the USB port because it is drawing from the port-mac/pc-etc.  But that's a 98 EUR Aqvox and that's a second Hiface just about!  As the one forum user stated, the Xmos "sound" is already "colored" so why bother right?)))))
> 
> I personally hear no coloration and neutral is a good word IMHO.


 
   
  I've bit the bullet and ordered the Aqvox.  More because the USB port on Squeezebox Touch doesn't seem to be supplying enough power, proven by a powered hub seeming to alleviate the audio dropout issue at higher sample rates.  Hub is a bit of a messy solution cable-wise so the Aqvox is the cleaner solution.
   
  Or at least that's what I'm telling myself.


----------



## DrTone

Quote: 





warrenr said:


> Is anyone having an issue where the HiFace 2 doesn't get recognised by the mac mini after a couple of days?  I'm having to take out the HiFace and put it back into the USB socket to be recognised again.
> 
> My V-Link never did this.
> 
> Cheers.


 
   
  Quote: 





realmassy said:


> It did happen once or twice so far, nothing major though.


 
   
  Have you guys temporarily tried a powered hub and see if the issue goes away?  I'm wondering if it's power related.


----------



## Telstar

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> If you think about what a usb to spdif converter is you realize that such a converter can not have a tonal signature, a timbre or anything like that.


 
  It can. It just depends on the jitter spectrum.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





telstar said:


> It can. It just depends on the jitter spectrum.


 
  Interesting...


----------



## realmassy

telstar said:


> It can. It just depends on the jitter spectrum.



Yep, interesting, but where's the theory behind that? Any way to measure the jitter and relate it to frequency?


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Yep, interesting, but where's the theory behind that? Any way to measure the jitter and relate it to frequency?


 
  It was a joke in response to what the person said))
   
  There's plenty of articles about jitter, but it doesn't tell me a single thing, especially when writers that are experts in this field still cannot really explain things accurate in threads going on right now...


----------



## realmassy

^ sorry mate, I thought you were genuinely interested  I'm not into technical things, but as you said, there are so many peole around, each one with a different theory about jitter, so I wasn't surprsised at all to hear that.
Some numbers and measurements would of course help to validate Telstar's theory...0


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> ^ sorry mate, I thought you were genuinely interested  I'm not into technical things, but as you said, there are so many peole around, each one with a different theory about jitter, so I wasn't surprsised at all to hear that.
> Some numbers and measurements would of course help to validate Telstar's theory...0


 
  LOL)  Numbers won't tell us anything, that's the problem...most recent "theory" is measurements "around" the clock))))  IMHO, it's design, design, design...oh...and clocking is obviously helpful too, but only to an extent.  I think the term "jitter" is extraordinarily overrated, much as many things are.  Find what works for your situation, and if it works well, why break it?  If it can be improved, is it that much an improvement or just a subtle one (not an improvement in my book).  I hear too often these "improvements", but I think people just want to hear something, and claim it to be true.  Good for them))


----------



## WarrenR

Hi guys.
   
  Wondering if anyone has plumped for the AQVOX yet?
   
  Still enjoying my HiFace 2 immensely.


----------



## realmassy

Warren, I've just found this cheap alternative to the AQVOX:
http://www.mikrotik-store.eu/en/MikroTik-5V-USB-Injector
  You can use your own PSU, and it should basically do the same thing. I have a quite expensive 5V PSU that I'm using with a Onkyo dock, I just need to find a plug adapter.


----------



## MusiqSound

[size=10pt]A famous engineer as well as manufacturer has had an interesting paper about the subject some time ago on an American well known forum. I guess that looking back over our shoulder regarding jitter influence; we can now say that it has definitely an influence, but this is absolutely not the only component that counts! One can prove it a simple way, just plug an external clock between your transport and your DAC and you hear a difference. The same way latency affects computer audio by preventing operating system to deliver data in a synchronous way to driver at some occasions. SQ is affected by, for example, anti-virus real time scanning threads which can delay timing.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]What people tend to forget is also that power source has much more influence on the result as well as EMI.  Galvanic isolation has also influence, sometimes positive, sometimes not, depending on the way it is built.[/size]
   
  On the hiFace 2, if the technology used tends to try to limit these phenomenon, as soon as you are using the adapter on very high grade preamp/amp/speakers, you can easily hear differences depending on what kind of computer you use, cables, etc… when you plug it to regular or middle class systems, you never hear anything and I guess this is what brings confusion between people who believe/do not believe in these influences.


----------



## Audioexcels

I no longer listen for jitter...I just listen to music


----------



## Telstar

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> It was a joke in response to what the person said))
> 
> There's plenty of articles about jitter, but it doesn't tell me a single thing, especially when writers that are experts in this field still cannot really explain things accurate in threads going on right now...


 
   
  i wasnt joking at all.
  Jitter is already damn hard (and expensive) to measure, measuring the spectra is even harder, so i'm afraid u have to accept the hearing "measurements" for lack of a better explanation.


----------



## tranhieu

Quote: 





telstar said:


> i wasnt joking at all.
> Jitter is already damn hard (and expensive) to measure, measuring the spectra is even harder, so i'm afraid u have to accept the hearing "measurements" for lack of a better explanation.


 

 And I'm afraid you forgot the thing called placebo.


----------



## mock-up

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> I no longer listen for jitter...I just listen to music


 
   





  Is there any materials about jitter spectrum?


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





tranhieu said:


> And I'm afraid you forgot the thing called placebo.


 
  LOLS)  At least it's R2D2 and not C3PO or would it be C3PO that would be better to rely on?)
   
  He did say that the tools can measure things, but in the end, it's the ears so that's indeed subjective, or even placebo depending on who's ears we trust and do not trust) I say we all just trust the audiophile writers...they have so many words to describe things it's difficult to get past the first sentence once they start getting into it)))


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





mock-up said:


> Is there any materials about jitter spectrum?


 
  I'm sure we have material about all sorts of jitter properties, but they are only good for the people that spend hours in their labs and don't get out and breathe fresh air...too much solder down their lungs I guess?


----------



## realmassy

Just tested the Hiface Two with the new Beta of Audirvana Plus with Direct Mode: can confirm it works fine! It doesn't sound bad either


----------



## WarrenR

What is Direct Mode?  Is it like Integer mode?


----------



## realmassy

audirvana.com/?p=304

It can work in combination with integer mode, depending on the OS and the device. 
Sound wise is even more transparent than the standatd Audirvana, it worth a try.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





tranhieu said:


> And I'm afraid you forgot the thing called placebo.


 
   
  Blatant troll is blatant.  I think you forgot your manners bro.


----------



## spkrs01

I have no idea whether one can hear jitter?
   
  I bought a HiFace two and using it in the following set up: JRiver > Wasapi > HiFace 2 > V800 > V200.
   
  The results are stunning, Soundstage has increased especially perception of depth, the transparency and also the improvements in bass is awe-inspiring! What a great little piece of kit!
   
  Highly recommended.


----------



## tranhieu

Quote: 





drez said:


> Blatant troll is blatant.  I think you forgot your manners bro.


 

 My apology if that post offended anyone, I didn't mean it. But please do enlighten me which part of it makes me look like a troll, considering I am one of the very first people buying the Hiface 2 here?
  I am not very familiar with the digital world but when it comes to tuning iems and headphones, I trust numbers more than anything else, ears come last, and I believe it's not that much different for audio electronics engineers.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





tranhieu said:


> My apology if that post offended anyone, I didn't mean it. But please do enlighten me which part of it makes me look like a troll, considering I am one of the very first people buying the Hiface 2 here?
> I am not very familiar with the digital world but when it comes to tuning iems and headphones, I trust numbers more than anything else, ears come last, and I believe it's not that much different for audio electronics engineers.


 
   
  Designing a piece of electronics or a headphone driver from a technological standpoint is very different from evaluating such a piece of equipment.  After all we do not hear with our eyes - so although numbers can be useful to verify changes and differences - if you can't actually hear a difference or don't like what you hear the change is worthless.  Also I think a lot of equipment manufacturers evaluate products by ear - you would have to be crazy not to as if your equipment measures well but sounds dry, forward and grainy nobody is going to buy it right?
   
  It's like "I don't agree with you because I expect X or hear Y" as opposed to "have you considered that your perception might be flawed."  Both of them I guess are challenging the exclusive validity of the other persons observations, but to me the former is more constructive as it introduces new material to the discourse rather than being purely subversive/critical.  I mean to use HiFace 2 over onboard TOSLINK one is already venturing beyond what can be proven to be audibly different right?


----------



## MarkyMark

I have the original HiFace and am using it with Foobar in KS mode, outputting to a Benchmark DAC1.
   
  The original HiFace manual claims to guarantee bitperfect transfer in KS mode and the Benchmark asynchronously resamples of the incoming datastream to 110khz, which is claimed to attenuate the problem of jitter. So if the improvements on mk2 are only jitter-related, then I can't see how upgrading will help me in anyway. Surely an improvement in SQ would need to be related to problems with the bitperfect transfer itself, unless the Benchmark Ultralock technology is not as infallible as they claim.
   
  At least that's the theory..
   
  Has anyone tried mk1 versus mk2 with a Benchmark DAC1?
   
  Cheers


----------



## ferdit

What does HiFace 2 do? It feeds into a DAC?


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Is it possible to setup in OSX or Windows so that the converter is forced to not exceed 16 or 20-bit and 48khz?


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





spkrs01 said:


> I have no idea whether one can hear jitter?
> 
> I bought a HiFace two and using it in the following set up: JRiver > Wasapi > HiFace 2 > V800 > V200.
> 
> ...


 

 I can also confirm your results with the gear in my signature. I think the only built-in USB modules that are better are only included in significantly more expensive DACs. The HiFace allows a significant offset in costs when using a excellent DAC that didn't engineer the crap out of its USB input. Another benefit is that it's very flexible with changes in equipment. I also personally enjoy the freedom of not being chained to a USB DAC, Schiit and Yulong come to mind.


----------



## wushuliu

Hiface 2 is a big step up from 1 but no one seems to notice it's available. Too much FOTM burnout from the first one I imagine.


----------



## oldson

just got the hiface 2 today.
   
  have selected "wasapi:speakers(hiface two audio" from drop down menu in preferences.
  is this best or should i get aiso?


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





oldson said:


> just got the hiface 2 today.
> 
> have selected "wasapi:speakers(hiface two audio" from drop down menu in preferences.
> is this best or should i get aiso?


 
  Top Choices - in order:
 1) ASIO
  2) WASAPI - Event Style


----------



## spkrs01

+1


----------



## tme110

Quote: 





ferdit said:


> What does HiFace 2 do? It feeds into a DAC?


 

 It acts as a transport.  Usually used as a usb to coax (spdif) converter so you'd know if you needed one.


----------



## tme110

Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> Is it possible to setup in OSX or Windows so that the converter is forced to not exceed 16 or 20-bit and 48khz?


 

 In windows, when you select your audio device and go into properties, isn't there a list of boxes you have to select or deselect to indicate which rates are available?


----------



## tp280

I'm new to head-fi as and this M2Tech HighFace 2 has been of interest to me over the last few days.  I have a HT set-up that I use for two channel listening as follows;
   
  Adcom GTP-880 pre/pro (has built in DAC with 24bit 192 decoding)
  Adcom GFA-7607 amp 7 channels at 175 RMS 4 ohms
  KEF Reference 4 Mains (using 4 channels of 7607 at 175 rms ea).
  KEF Reference 200C center
  KEF Reference 2 surronds
  Velodyne R1500 sub
  Sony BPD SS570 Blue-Ray
  Charter (Motorola DCX3501M) HD Cable Box
  Dell XPS l502x Laptop (WavesMax JBL soundcard)
  Schiit Bifrost DAC with Async 24/192 USB
  Headphones/amp-(after I address my amp/prepro updates)
   
  I know my electronics need an update (as budget allows) but I just added the Reference 4's and moved the 2's to surround duty. After a week of letting everything get situated togteher, what a sonic difference and what an enjoyable way to listen to stereo audio.
   
  Some observations though, The Bifrost is my second DAC and it replaced a Nuforce HDP Icon. I enjoyed the sound of the Icon but when I played back USB output from my Dell laptop, it picked up a high percentage of keystroke and mouse clicks and interupted the audio (regardless of USB cable length or make, also when I played the Icon through some powered desktop speakers), while I surfed and typed. Most of my laptop audio is streaming radio off of Itunes or Pandora One. I have about 10G of music stored on Itunes in lossless as well.  The Icon was sold and the Bifrost was moved in for six weeks now.  With its USB 2.0 software the unit has very few noises while working and listening, and I'm 12' feet from the Bifrost using a cheap Belkin USB cable sitting in the sweetspot on the couch, (I know a proper USB cable will make improvments).
   
  I did some A/B listening tests and discoverd I like the audio sound (presence, dynamics, and smoothness (with my Cablebox playing cable HD-stations in Dolby Digital 2.0, and CD's and streaming music from the BlueRay) through the DAC in the ADCOM GTP-880 better than the Bifrost. It didn't matter if I used the Toslink or coax input into the Bifrost, quality music from the Cablebox or Blue-Ray sounded better through the Adcom DAC.  The key A/B listening tests were playing the same disc through the Blue-ray/Coax to DAC in the GTP-880 and switching to the laptop drive playing USB through the Bifrost with analog into the GTP-880. Even playing the disc in Blue-ray and switching between the Bifrost and GTP-880 DAC's confirmed the sonics, (flipped the toslink and coax cables to each to confirm the cabling wasn't a sonic influence).
   
   
  The Analog input from Bifrost through the GTP-880 is set direct (preamp bypass).  I just get fatiqued listening to music through it compared to through the DAC on the GTP-880.  As the GTP-880 has 3 Coax inputs, I thought of adding the HighFace 2 for audio from my Dell laptop and ditching the Bifrost. (sorry to take so long to introduce my system and assessments)
   
  My questions about the Highface 2 are;
  Have any HF2 users used a longer 12' (4M) coax cable from the Laptop (I'll be sitting at the couch) to the DAC? Any keystroke noises or other noise from the long cable run or from typing, surfing?  Is there any problems with the HF2 if say you bump it with your knee or the laptop moves around on your lap while using it? Should the USB output compete with the Blue-ray or cablebox musicality through the GTP-880 DAC, (beating the sound through the Bifrost)?
   
  If the HF2 will put up with an in-use laptop, it sounds like a no brainer, otherwise I'll keep the Bifrost but just use it for USB only.  Thanks for any help on these concerns


----------



## brunk

Hi and welcome to HeadFi!
   
  It sounds like you need to setup your BiFrost with the correct Audio driver. Those key click and keystrokes sounds are not a typical experience at all.
  1) What player are you using? I recommend JRiver and FooBar. Make sure it's set as ASIO/WASAPI output and all DSP is disabled.
  2) Under your audio properties, what selection have you made as the default sound? Make sure BiFrost is set as ASIO/WASAPI output and all enhancements are disabled.
  3) What is the signal chain used while listening to BiFrost? Keep it short as possible, using only one preamp and ensure all DSP is disabled in the AVR.
   
  To partially answer your question about the HiFace Two, I haven't tried a 4m coax cable, but it will most likely degrade SQ a bit. Instead of holding the laptop at your listening position, get a "remote" for your phone! JRemote works wonderfully on iPhone. This makes the whole "cable attached to laptop" a non-issue if you're using the laptop strictly for music while listening. You can also hook it up to your AVR via HDMI and get a wireless keyboard/mouse combo like the Logitech K400 and be happier with that too. You can also use a 12ft. USB cable with no issues. The Lacie Flat cable is a meaningful cable upgrade that costs only $8-20. It keeps the data and power signals separated and will beat many expensive cables that disregard this fundamental area.
  Quote: 





tp280 said:


> I'm new to head-fi as and this M2Tech HighFace 2 has been of interest to me over the last few days.  I have a HT set-up that I use for two channel listening as follows;
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


----------



## tp280

Thanks for the tips. It appears JRiver costs $49, not sure about Foobar. Anyone from Schiit have a recomendation on these Audio Drivers vs. the USB 2.0 High Speed True HD Audio Driver that downloads when you plug the Bifrost in initially.
   
  Actualy the Bifrost gives very good results for eliminating audio clicks and picking up keystroke and track pad activity, (The Icon was bad).  This laptop is for everything not just music files, thus my concerns of undoing the performance strengths of the Bifrost.  I did discover my settings had reverted to 16bit,44k from 24b, 192k sometime in the last two weeks. Reset the dynamics are more apparent).  I probably introduced my new Reference 4's while in the low setting for USB playback. Still not sure why I prefer the Adcom DAC to the Bifrost for the output of the Ble-ray and cablebox.  As to the HDMI approach. I have tried the HDMI outputs from the Cablebox, Blue-Ray, and Dell through my Phillips LCD and the the Coax SPDIF to the Bifrost.  Absolutly no noise from the Dell when typing or surfing, but the LCD seems to cut dynamics a bit in an AB test, also unless I need two monitors for a project, or want to watch sports and listen to music, the LCD is nice to have off, maybe save a bit of power. 
   
  So back to cables, the LaCie USB or similar is my next investment, anyone have a low cost SPDIF coax cable worth trying (1M length for the Blue-ray)?
   
  Any other experiences with the High face 2 and in-use laptops?


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





tp280 said:


> Thanks for the tips. It appears JRiver costs $49, not sure about Foobar. Anyone from Schiit have a recomendation on these Audio Drivers vs. the USB 2.0 High Speed True HD Audio Driver that downloads when you plug the Bifrost in initially.


 
  You may be a little confused here. Not all media players support ASIO, and some don't make WASAPI an easily available setting. I suggest getting a trial of JRiver and trying it out. If you really don't see the benefits that the $50 makes (when properly setup) then just go with FooBar, which is free but will require alot of tweaking to suit your taste in GUI layout. Choosing one of these media players is a fundamental upgrade over iTunes and Media Center/Player.


----------



## tp280

I loaded jriver trial and under tools/options found the Wasapi setting and went through and negated any dsp settings that were readily available in settings. I'm not finding any setting window on the USB 2.0 True HD audio file work that Bifrost initially loaded to set Wasapi. Otherwise good things, Thanks Brunk!
   
  I can still use Pandora One and Itunes radio with better response now and play my media through jriver and also access last.fm. Audio is now what would be expected, but if!there are settings for the Later softwarea bove it would be good to know. I'll try a good spdif with the BlueRay to Bifrost and see if it solves that problem.


----------



## tp280

Some more critical listening from my Blue-Ray player, it just sounds so much more open therough the Adcom DAC. I ordered a Hiface 2 this morning, will give it a run against the Bifrost, If Its not for me it goes to my sisters system.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





ferdit said:


> What does HiFace 2 do? It feeds into a DAC?


 
  It uses one end to directly connect to a USB port, and uses the other end to go coax/bnc to an external DAC.


----------



## spkrs01

I use a usb extension, lessen the stress on the usb port.............


----------



## drez

You could do like AudioPhilleo and connect direct to back of your DAC with an adapter, but the HiFace was designed to plug into the back of the computer, using a USB cable changes the level of jitter the device and drivers is designed around IMO.  With my modified hiface I found it sounded best when plugged directly into the computer.  Might be different with the HiFace 2, ie XMOS and Thescyon drivers.
   
  When I had heaps of things hanging off my computer I used to tie a little piece of string from one of the bolts to the appendage in question in order to relieve stress.  Not pretty I know


----------



## tp280

Hiface 2 came today. Not too bad to interface with jriver in ASIO playback. The Adcom will only take/decode 24/96 as the highest bitrate. Maybe when I get a better cable, but not going to hold my breath. (two days of trial/error pass)...
   
  After a couple of days use, I gave up on the DAC in the Adcom as it wouldn't decode the SPDIF stream without conflict from the Hitech 2 set-up, involving stops and crashes. A bit of trial with the Hiface 2 sending SPDIF to the Bifrost, no issues decoding 24bit 192K signal, and no problems interupting the music no matter what I am doing on my laptop. I feel I can confidently pay for a full-version of jriver with the audio quality improvements and no crashing or noise. I have been running ASIO with no issues for 8 hours already today with no problems, (using the esata USB port on the side),
   
  In review my Sony Blue-ray player doesn't have hi-bit rate streaming (best to just use it for movies in surround mode), so everything audio can be better served throiugh the Dell/Hitech 2/Bifrost and through the direct analog of the Adcom. I'm sure there are othe option of DAC's to explore but for the rest of July at least, (I'm tapped out), I'm happy the whole thing worked out with better audio from the system and no issues listening and playing on my computer at the same time.


----------



## oldson

using the hiface 2, i sometimes have problems with it on start-up.
  ie  no sound and a red cross over the speaker icon on the taskbar.
   
  if i un-plug and then re-connect the hiface 2, the problem goes away.
  any ideas?
   
  i am using a usb extension lead, otherwise the hiface 2 protrudes too far out the back of my case and fouls my desk's backing.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





drez said:


> You could do like AudioPhilleo and connect direct to back of your DAC with an adapter, but the HiFace was designed to plug into the back of the computer, using a USB cable changes the level of jitter the device and drivers is designed around IMO.  With my modified hiface I found it sounded best when plugged directly into the computer.  Might be different with the HiFace 2, ie XMOS and Thescyon drivers.
> 
> When I had heaps of things hanging off my computer I used to tie a little piece of string from one of the bolts to the appendage in question in order to relieve stress.  Not pretty I know


 
   
  Best direct USB side using zero USB cable correct?  How is this sound direct like this vs. the pricey (i.e. $150 on up to however much) USB cables?


----------



## drez

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Best direct USB side using zero USB cable correct?  How is this sound direct like this vs. the pricey (i.e. $150 on up to however much) USB cables?


 
   
  To me with John Kenny's battery modified Hiface 1 (aka the JKSPDIF mk3) using an adapter or very short DIY usb cable (with wire cannibalised from another USB cable) clearly beat out the $150 Furutech GT2 cable I had on hand.  Timing was much tighter and detail /imaging improved.  Using a BNC adapter (removing the need for coaxial cable) might also be another optimal solution.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





drez said:


> To me with John Kenny's battery modified Hiface 1 (aka the JKSPDIF mk3) using an adapter or very short DIY usb cable (with wire cannibalised from another USB cable) clearly beat out the $150 Furutech GT2 cable I had on hand.  Timing was much tighter and detail /imaging improved.  Using a BNC adapter (removing the need for coaxial cable) might also be another optimal solution.


 
   
  What you could do is pull that enclosure apart and give access to doing the two way deal (USB to USB and Coax to Coax).  You could even de-solder the coaxial ends of both MK3 and your Dac and solder them as one...heck, de-solder the USB sides of MK3 and computer and solder them together.  May look a little ghetto, but I bet it sounds a whole lot different/superior and so long as you have no plans or need to have this system be "mobile" (that is, it will be there for at least a few years), why not have some fun with the soldering iron...


----------



## tp280

After more listening fatigue, the Bifrost is gone. TEAC America who is the US distributer for M2Tech reccomended for the Hface 2, Foobar2000 which is free. Not as fancy as jriver, and a few trial/error keystrokes to get kernal streaming installed. I get a few pauses an hour while using the laptop for other things while listening, but they are not crashes.  The sound is very good with the Adcom DAC which decodes output of 24b/96k. For just over $210.00 with a 15' Mogami Coax cable, I'm happy and can live with a few pauses. Someime in the next year, I will update pre/pro and amps. Its very likely my choice for pre/pro will have asych USB input direct.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





oldson said:


> using the hiface 2, i sometimes have problems with it on start-up.
> ie  no sound and a red cross over the speaker icon on the taskbar.
> 
> if i un-plug and then re-connect the hiface 2, the problem goes away.
> ...


 
  Late with an answer but I just noticed this post. You probably set the Hiface as your default speaker in Windows. You should not have the Hiface set as default. Select whatever you use for your normal Windows sound as the default (onboard sound or sound card). That alone may solve your problem. It will also prevent Windows from trying to access the Hiface for normal Windows sound. I assume you are using some form of bit perfect output selection in your software player (Foobar, JRiver,etc.). I use the Hiface with Foobar set for kernal streaming and it works perfectly. After making the same mistake as you, I did have to reset things by powering down and holding down the power button for 30 seconds. That reset the computer to look again at the usb ports during boot and completely solved the problem.


----------



## tp280

Chodi thanks, The Hiface 2 worked really well with the Bifrost for clocking showing the issues ar with the Adcom. I am waiting on a new (to me) pre/pro (Integra DTC 9.8). I'll report when I have gone through the paces with a more modern unit with a better DAC section.)


----------



## Chodi

Yesterday I got a Belkin powered usb hub to power the Hiface Two. I figured that whatever power noise existed inside the computer must be working it's way into the usb ports as well. Very inexpensive tweek just to see if it would make a difference to give it it's own power supply. I have been listening to it this way for two days and I can say without question that it is an improvement. Better focus, more depth in the soundstage and cleaner overall. The difference is subtle but I can hear it clearly. Very cheap way to tweek your Hiface with some reward. This also helps to get the tension/weight of the Hiface away from your computer usb port.


----------



## tp280

As the power supply died on my Adcom GTP-880, (played it evereyday for six years of ownership), I picked up an Integra DTC-9.8 pre-pro for a decent price used. off topic the Audyssey sound tuning with Dolby Digital 5.1 is outstanding. I'm using my existing Adom GFA-7607 amp using 4 channels to power my KEF Reference 4 mains and the other three to power my KEF 200C center and Reference 2 surrounds. For audio listening (direct 2-channel) output, I tried my cabelbox and blue-ray/streamer and Dell XPS laptop using the Hiface 2 and all three input through good quality Mogami 75 ohm spdif cables.  the Hiface 2 was decoded in the full 24/192 setting with no issues on keystroke or track pad strokes. Overall maybe the Adcom sounded a bit better but the Integra is performing flawlessly with all three digital sources in DD 5.1 or direct 2 channel.
   
  Most would argue that the spdif inputs will outsound the HDMI audio digital signal.  With the Integra DTC-9.8 I switched between SPDIF and HDMI and with all 3 digital sources I prefer the direct 2 channel (and DD 5.1) output played through the HDMI signal input.  Through trial /error through a dying prepro (Adcom GTP-880), quality outboard USB/SPDIF DAC (Schiit Bifrost),I proved the Hiface 2 is a good USB SPDIF converter but for my pre/pro its not nneeded. I know I'll likely get flogged for suggesting that digital signal from notebook to pre/pro through HDMI vs. Hiface 2 is equal in perfomance but to my ears I'm happy with the sound.
   
  To those with older laptops or models without HDMI outptu or pusing 2 channel exclusive audio components without HDMI input, the Hiface 2 makes perfect sense to link to your existing DAC. I liked its perfomance better than the USB DAC connections for both the Nuforce ICON HDP and Schiit Bifrost that picked up keystroke noise and trackpad gestures and interupted the audio playback, (although the Bifrost with much less frequency of instances). Both weren't as good sonically as the Hiface 2.
   
  Well the Hiface 2 and SPDIF cable are going to my sister who has a modest HK 3490 receiver and a non HDMI output laptop to improve her PC audio experience. Hope this all helps some with product knowledge.


----------



## Jmstrmbn

Quote: 





tp280 said:


> As the power supply died on my Adcom GTP-880, (played it evereyday for six years of ownership), I picked up an Integra DTC-9.8 pre-pro for a decent price used. off topic the Audyssey sound tuning with Dolby Digital 5.1 is outstanding. I'm using my existing Adom GFA-7607 amp using 4 channels to power my KEF Reference 4 mains and the other three to power my KEF 200C center and Reference 2 surrounds. For audio listening (direct 2-channel) output, I tried my cabelbox and blue-ray/streamer and Dell XPS laptop using the Hiface 2 and all three input through good quality Mogami 75 ohm spdif cables.  the Hiface 2 was decoded in the full 24/192 setting with no issues on keystroke or track pad strokes. Overall maybe the Adcom sounded a bit better but the Integra is performing flawlessly with all three digital sources in DD 5.1 or direct 2 channel.
> 
> Most would argue that the spdif inputs will outsound the HDMI audio digital signal.  With the Integra DTC-9.8 I switched between SPDIF and HDMI and with all 3 digital sources I prefer the direct 2 channel (and DD 5.1) output played through the HDMI signal input.  Through trial /error through a dying prepro (Adcom GTP-880), quality outboard USB/SPDIF DAC (Schiit Bifrost),I proved the Hiface 2 is a good USB SPDIF converter but for my pre/pro its not nneeded. I know I'll likely get flogged for suggesting that digital signal from notebook to pre/pro through HDMI vs. Hiface 2 is equal in perfomance but to my ears I'm happy with the sound.
> 
> ...


 
  How does the Hiface 2 compare to direct optical from a computer source?


----------



## tp280

Tough comparison because my last tower PC had an older high-end Creative Sound Blaster card with the SPDIF output (over five years ago). I had it in another room from my entertainment system but did connect it determine if the SPDIF worked.  It did (but I hadn't considered a network set-up because I had yet to purchase a DVD player with newtwork/wi-fi to integrate my Adcom GTP-880) and had it play into some Creative desktop speakers via analog. Five years ago my PC audio was just low level downloads and CD quality playback. Eith the Dell XPS I have now, I couldn't get the Optical port to be reccognized by the Adcom GTP-880.
   
  I would say the sound from the Hiface 2 into the DAC sections of both the Adcom GTP-880 and now the Integra DTC-9.8 is more acurate then the two USB connection laptop-to-desktop DAC set-ups (Nuforce Icon HDP and Schiit Bifrost) that I have owned. Using the Hiface 2 through the SPDIF input of the Bifrost was still below the sonics of connecting Hiface 2 directly it to the two foremantioned pre/pros.  with the Adcom (there were connectivity issue (given the unit was dying undertsandable) and with the Integra perfect performance.
   
  If you have a desktop PC tower or a laptop, (and neither your receiver or pre/pro with DAC or your outboard DAC) has HDMI or USB arangements for digital transfer, I would be inclined to reccomend the Hiface 2 over a Sound Card or paying extra for a DAC with a USB input. I have read good thngasabout the Asus sound card, but since I ony use a laptop it wasn't an option.
   
  Given the fact that I can get the same sonic playback (to my ears) of the digital information from my Dell XPS laptop via HDMI to Integra's Bur-Brown DAC as with the Hiface 2 using SPDIF,. I'm going to keep things simple with HDMI. The only drawback is I need to adjust my laptop settings for long playback sessions (from the laptop going into sleep mode) and I turn the TV (LCD) off unless I want to use dual monitor support.  Before I upgraded to Integra DTC-9.8 when I used HDMI from my laptop to my Phillips LCD TV and used the SPDIF output to my Adcom GTP-880, the sonics were just so-so, so I moved my Nuforce Icon HDP into the entertainment system, found lots of keystroke noises, moved up to Bifrost, (better clocking fewer errors, mediocre sonics), then went to the Hiface 2, and discovered how performance was a wash against HDMI with the Integra pre-pro. In the end I'm glad I picked the Integra pre-pro which for its cost (used) I caould barely get a decent preamp or stand alone DAC alone.  It also has a decent headphone jack, which I will explore in the future, when I can borrow some decent cans for demo.
   
  Listening to pc audio through the Integra and 4 channels  of my Adcom GFA 7607(175 RMS ea) biamping my KEF Reference 4 speakers ($5K MSRP) is very enjoyable. I'm thinking that for keeping a pre/pro that can do surround or 2 channel playback it's hard to beat.  (looks like I would need to spend three-fold to update to a top preamp with built in DAC's (The Bryston BP-25 with DAC was a thought, but I'm not sure I want to commit to 2 channel exclusivley), As the Integra has balanced outputs, I will be updating my amp in the near future to something more appropriate for the 5 KEF reference speakers I use for video and to make the big KEF 4's shine in 2 channel direct mode.
   
  Given the competition/cost of other USB to SPDIF converters, I think M2tech has done a god job with Hiface 2 for simplicity and performance. Given your environment for using your laptop with your entertainment system, other system may make more sense or given your laptops performance using a powered hub may improve performance.
   
  PM me direct for other specific questions. The Hiface 2 and 15' Mogami SPDIF coax cable I have are available for consideration.


----------



## danpong

hi guy,
   
  I hope you guy don't flame me on these questions I'm about to ask as I've been reading through the whole thread but couldn't really get a hold of the whole idea as to what this hiface 2 will do to my setup.
   
  Here goes.  First of my understanding is this USB-to-SPDIF is to allow music to "transport" to connect to DAC as lowest jitter as possible.  The question is this: does it just transport the same level of music or it does the upsampling when transport also?(I think that what the DAC job is right?) 
   
  Second, most of my music is in lossless FLAC format 16/44.1 CD rip.  So will it make any different when I use normal USB connection to my DAC or will it be better to use this Coax connection.  My DAC is 16/48 max for USB port and 24/192 for Coax port. 
   
  Thank you in advance I'm still new to this DAC thing.


----------



## tp280

I'm still a newbie on this site still despite I've shared my experiences with the Nuforce Icon HDP, Schiit Bifrost, and M2Tech Hiface 2 to connect my laptop to my home system.
   
  Question 1) Answer-Hiface 2 will transfer the native level without upsampling, so you can set your PC soundcard at the highest setting your DAC can decode and your DAC should decode your digital stream at native signal level, so you FLAC material will be at 16/44.1 when decoded by your DAC, unless it performs updampling.
   
  Qusetion 2) Answer-From my limited experience as well as from what I have read, I would concur that you will probably like the results of your PC music through Coax into your DAC converted with a product like Hiface 2 over just using a USB cable to your DAC. Other considerations include what other sources you need to connect to your DAC as well, (not too many of them have multiple coax inputs, with switchable inputs). I'd A/B a dsic played from your PC via USB to the DAC against say a dedicated disc player feeding its coax stream to your DAC.
   
  Do your comparison with a decent USB cable.  If you like the USB-DAC fed sound, can use your computer for other tasks while listening without sound errors, your DAC's coax input is already used by a dedicated source, get a better USB cable and be happy with USB. If unhappy with the sound or you get clocking issues while doing other tasks on the computer while listening, by all means give a USB converter like the Hiface 2 a shot. I'd have a tough time buying a DAC with USB input without hearing the perfomance and making sure it didn't have any issues while using my laptop with other aps. The fact that Hiface 2 did well means you can probably buy a DAC for its chipset processing prowess and if it doesn't have USB, you win by using Hiface 2 over a unit with a not-so-impresive USB section.


----------



## Jmstrmbn

I currently use Macbook Optical out> Nuforce HDP.  I've been eyeing the hiface 2 since it was announced especially since it is driverless on OSX.  Based on what you said I think that will be my next venture when I get the funds.


----------



## tp280

I would think the Macbook media on optical to HDP would be reasonable quality. When I had my HDP Icon in the den, I used the optical out of a Vizeo LCD (input from HDMI to a cablebox) with good results, (again through the AE5+ speakers).  When I had it in the main room I used the optical to the cablebox there with resullts as the best of the three HDP inputs, (over coax and USB).  I'm not sure you would get a better sound spending for a Hiface to link the Macbook over optical to HDP.


----------



## Jmstrmbn

Ok, are you saying that the hiface is not capable of beating the optical input or that usb to spdif converters regardless of price are not capable?  I have quite a few 24/192 files I've purchased over the past year or two and I can't play them at full quality due to the macbooks 24/96 limited dac chip. Is there another way to play these files that would also provide a bump in sound quality?


----------



## danpong

Quote: 





tp280 said:


> I'm still a newbie on this site still despite I've shared my experiences with the Nuforce Icon HDP, Schiit Bifrost, and M2Tech Hiface 2 to connect my laptop to my home system.
> 
> Question 1) Answer-Hiface 2 will transfer the native level without upsampling, so you can set your PC soundcard at the highest setting your DAC can decode and your DAC should decode your digital stream at native signal level, so you FLAC material will be at 16/44.1 when decoded by your DAC, unless it performs updampling.
> 
> ...


 
  thank you for your reply.  I'm still experimenting all my connection.  That is why I'm trying to get the hang of the real technical behind the thing as I mentions over 95% of my collections are only CD quality 16/44.1 so will it be any different to get this hiface 2 over some other lower price 24/96 solution.  Or maybe even just use USB with better quality cable.  I have kimber usb cable which I think it make the sound a bit warmer and thicker notes.


----------



## tp280

To Jmstrmbn, Good point as I didn't know the sound settings for your Macbook. I would say that if you are only able to send a 24/96 signal over optical to your Icon HDP, it may still be a tough call on what sounds better between optical or adding the Hiface 2 to go USB to SPDIF. Will your Macbook send a 24/192 signal through USB?  Otherwise a mute point, maybe a better sounding DAC in general and still go with optical would yield the best sound. The Hiface 2 to Adcom or Integra in 24/96 still sounded awesome. (The Icon HDP was long gone so unable to compare). I would say try a better sounding DAC to get get better sound using the optical.
   
  Other factors to consider, distance from PC to DAC, other uses of your Macbook.


----------



## tp280

To danpong, My thoughts for selection of a Hiface 2 were:
   
  That I really liked the sound of digital scources through my Adcom GTP-880's DAC better than the outboard Icon HDP or Schiit Bifrost which were relativly inexpensive DAC's that had good public feedback. Moving from KEF 2's to 4's as mains really showcased DAC performance.
   
  Hiface2 was a great way to go through the USB of my Laptop to the Adcom. It sounded best. As a twist, the Adcom died and I picked a more modern pre/pro (Integra) that I feel equal to the sound of a) using the Hiface to SPDIF vs. b) the (Integra's) HDMI connection to my Dell and the self-loading driver from the Integra. Simpler aproach using HDMI.
   
  With a good Kimber USB cable, you should be able to decide if your USB input provides the music quality you want. I know that using the Hiface 2 with the 24/48 setting on my laptop still yeilded great results into the Adcom. Adding the Hiface 2 would likely make an improvement with you current DAC. Weigh the costs of updating your DAC to a better sounding unit (perhaps with Asyncronous USB), vs. the cost of adding the Hiface 2 and perhaps a nice SPDIF cable.


----------



## danpong

thank you tp280  yeah I've been trying to weighing the budget as to what to be upgraded first.  I've just bought the silverdragon cable to replace my stock cable as I think that will yield the best bang for the money spent now.  This Hiface 2 sound really promising.  I think I have to go do some store that has it and do some listening test.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





jmstrmbn said:


> Ok, are you saying that the hiface is not capable of beating the optical input or that usb to spdif converters regardless of price are not capable?  I have quite a few 24/192 files I've purchased over the past year or two and I can't play them at full quality due to the macbooks 24/96 limited dac chip. Is there another way to play these files that would also provide a bump in sound quality?


 
  I use the Hiface 2 to send 24/192 music files from my computer to my dac using Foobar. It is simple to test the difference between 24/192 and 24/96 by just changing the setting in Foobar. The difference in sound quality is instantly noticeable in favor of the higher upsampling. To me, that difference alone would be reason enough to pay for the Hiface 2. I use the Sox plugin in Foobar to upsample all my music files on the fly through the Hiface and the sound is glorious. I have compared this on my own system to optical out from my Xonar and the Hiface wins hands down. The optical sound thin and bright by comparison. Frankly, at the $200 asking price I think the Hiface Two is a steal.
   
  Since you already own many files that are 24/192 you would see an instant improvement that you would not have to strain to hear.


----------



## spkrs01

Quote: 





chodi said:


> I use the Hiface 2 to send 24/192 music files from my computer to my dac using Foobar. It is simple to test the difference between 24/192 and 24/96 by just changing the setting in Foobar. The difference in sound quality is instantly noticeable in favor of the higher upsampling. To me, that difference alone would be reason enough to pay for the Hiface 2. I use the Sox plugin in Foobar to upsample all my music files on the fly through the Hiface and the sound is glorious. I have compared this on my own system to optical out from my Xonar and the Hiface wins hands down. The optical sound thin and bright by comparison. Frankly, *at the $200 asking price I think the Hiface Two is a steal.*
> 
> Since you already own many files that are 24/192 you would see an instant improvement that you would not have to strain to hear.


 
  +1


----------



## drez

Quote: 





chodi said:


> I use the Hiface 2 to send 24/192 music files from my computer to my dac using Foobar. It is simple to test the difference between 24/192 and 24/96 by just changing the setting in Foobar. The difference in sound quality is instantly noticeable in favor of the higher upsampling. To me, that difference alone would be reason enough to pay for the Hiface 2. I use the Sox plugin in Foobar to upsample all my music files on the fly through the Hiface and the sound is glorious. I have compared this on my own system to optical out from my Xonar and the Hiface wins hands down. The optical sound thin and bright by comparison. Frankly, at the $200 asking price I think the Hiface Two is a steal.
> 
> Since you already own many files that are 24/192 you would see an instant improvement that you would not have to strain to hear.


 
   
  The SOX plugin is pretty nice - I think CPLay uses it as well.


----------



## danpong

Hi,
   
  I'm new to foobar.  What is sox plugin?  I just install foobar but couldn't find the sox plugin component.  the only thing that I can find is very old version from 2009.  Do you have exact name of the plugin and where can I download it?
   
  Thank you


----------



## drez

This is the one I tried out: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=67373


----------



## danpong

ok thank you


----------



## leeperry

Personally I really hate how SoX kills the bass, as previously discussed in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/467853/foobar-sox-resampler
   
  if you were looking for 24/192 "magical" SQ improvement, I'd shoot for Reclock in "best sinc interpolation" mode via WASAPI Exclusive


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Personally I really hate how SoX kills the bass, as previously discussed in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/467853/foobar-sox-resampler
> 
> if you were looking for 24/192 "magical" SQ improvement, I'd shoot for Reclock in "best sinc interpolation" mode via WASAPI Exclusive


 
  It doesn't "kill the bass". Go into Foobar preferences-dsp manager-Sox config and change the phase response slider to 25% and your bass response will return. This has to do with the way particular dacs see the digital signal (pre-echo and post echo). Most people leave this on the default "Linear" setting assuming it is good for everyone. It is not the correct setting for all dacs just a general setting for the majority. Try this and I think your problem will be solved and you can enjoy Sox.


----------



## Anda

How do you use the Hiface 2 as sound output in OS X? When I choose it in the sound preferences there's no sound. I'm trying to help a guy who wants to use iTunes, Spotify and VLC.


----------



## Jerryfan

I'm thinking about trying the Sabre D18 dac from grant fidelity. I already have a Teralink x2, my question is: would a Hiface 2 be a great improvement over my Teralink when testing the D18?


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





jerryfan said:


> I'm thinking about trying the Sabre D18 dac from grant fidelity. I already have a Teralink x2, my question is: would a Hiface 2 be a great improvement over my Teralink when testing the D18?


 
  I can't speak for the Teralink as I haven't heard it, but I can tell you I have the D18 with the Hiface 2 and it is a great combination. The D18 sounds good when driven from standard optical out but the Hiface 2 takes it to a whole other level. Highly recommended.


----------



## D2Cowones

BTW, M2Tech has released an update of  Hiface2 ' firmware early this week


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





d2cowones said:


> BTW, M2Tech has released an update of  Hiface2 ' firmware early this week


 
  Thanks for the tip but it is a driver update not firmware. They told me it was to improve compatibility with Windows. Any other changes so far they are not talking. When I installed it today I noticed a slightly smoother/sweeter high frequency response with no lose in detail. The effect is a bit more overall transparency. The change is slight but noticeable on my setup. I really think this device is a remarkable value.


----------



## spkrs01

Quote: 





chodi said:


> Thanks for the tip but it is a driver update not firmware. They told me it was to improve compatibility with Windows. Any other changes so far they are not talking. When I installed it today I noticed a slightly smoother/sweeter high frequency response with no lose in detail. The effect is a bit more overall transparency. The change is slight but noticeable on my setup. I really think this device is a remarkable value.


 
   
  Chodi,
   
  To compare notes, what Buffer settings are you using ?  USB Steaming Mode and Asio Buffer Size? on the Hiface 2 control panel....
   
  Many thanks


----------



## D2Cowones

Yes chodi you are right, is a driver update. I noticed too a slight improvement in terms of transparency
   
  cheers


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





spkrs01 said:


> Chodi,
> 
> To compare notes, what Buffer settings are you using ?  USB Steaming Mode and Asio Buffer Size? on the Hiface 2 control panel....
> 
> Many thanks


 
  I have it set on "Standard" streaming mode and 2048 samples (default). I am using Windows 7x64 with an i7 3770 and 8gig of memory so those setting are not going to cause any issue for me. I use Foobar and have it set to load each selection I play into memory automatically so it reduces latency to an insignificant issue (only takes a second). Honestly I think the Hiface Two with this latest software does as much as anyone could ask of a usb converter. What I think they accomplished with this update was to remove some very slight edge in the upper frequency (we are talking very small edge that was barely noticeable on some recordings). After all, the whole point of the transport is to not color the sound and I think they have accomplished that in spades.


----------



## spkrs01

Quote: 





chodi said:


> I have it set on "Standard" streaming mode and 2048 samples (default). I am using Windows 7x64 with an i7 3770 and 8gig of memory so those setting are not going to cause any issue for me. I use Foobar and have it set to load each selection I play into memory automatically so it reduces latency to an insignificant issue (only takes a second). Honestly I think the Hiface Two with this latest software does as much as anyone could ask of a usb converter. What I think they accomplished with this update was to remove some very slight edge in the upper frequency (we are talking very small edge that was barely noticeable on some recordings). After all, the whole point of the transport is to not color the sound and I think they have accomplished that in spades.


 
   
  Thanks for the above!
   
  I am on Win 7 64bits i5-560M Vaio Laptop using Jriver 17, I need to have it on "Safe" streaming to avoid clicks and pops. My samples are 1024 but I think this is moot. On "Minimum Latency" streaming, I have notice a much cleaner clearer sound, slightly more resolution but the non-stop clicking and popping is unbearable.
   
  Having said that the upgraded drivers have, and I am in total agreement, removed the edge/shrillness of the upper frequencies. This is very noticeable especially with the HD800. The music is now exhibiting more finesse and delicacy. I think it has also added more texture to the bass especially decay of notes! This has further enhance the perception of soundstage.
   
  The HiFace 2 is definitely one of the best bang for the buck tweaks that I have encountered in this hobby of ours!


----------



## Chodi

Your pops and clicks only between tracks or also while music is playing?


----------



## spkrs01

Quote: 





chodi said:


> Your pops and clicks only between tracks or also while music is playing?


 
   
  While music is playing. It is only on 'Safe' streaming that the pops and clicks are eliminated! Hence, my choice of using Safe streaming. I am using a powered usb hub exclusively for the HiFace, which brought on a nice sonic improvement, making images more palpable.........


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





spkrs01 said:


> While music is playing. It is only on 'Safe' streaming that the pops and clicks are eliminated! Hence, my choice of using Safe streaming. I am using a powered usb hub exclusively for the HiFace, which brought on a nice sonic improvement, making images more palpable.........


 
  Yes I also have mine on a powered hub and it does help. I would not be concerned that you have to choose Safe streaming. That is simply a function of your hardware. I have a pretty high end desktop so my computer is not working at all to run these programs.


----------



## spkrs01

Quote: 





chodi said:


> Yes I also have mine on a powered hub and it does help. I would not be concerned that you have to choose Safe streaming. That is simply a function of your hardware. I have a pretty high end desktop so my computer is not working at all to run these programs.


 
   
  Thanks for the reply!!!


----------



## fradoca

the drivers for windows users have been updated.
   
  Install them cos there's a clear sonic improvement over the previous ones!


----------



## D2Cowones

I set it as minimum latency / 512 samples and I am very happy with the performance. PC is a W7 64 bits with 4Gb, the computer even is a quad core is a little bit older, the only changes I did in the OS is disabling aero and all energy-saving options. Player is foobar and also from RAM (with file buffering or ramdisk component).
   
  What kind of powered hubs do you use? reading your comments it seems to increase even more the result...


----------



## robertsong

Hi. Does anybody know if the hiface2 is the only spdif/usb converter that supports ASIO? I'm running Foobar2000 on Windows XP (my preference!). Preliminary research tells me ASIO will give me the best sound in WinXP while bypassing the "kmixer".


----------



## drez

Quote: 





robertsong said:


> Hi. Does anybody know if the hiface2 is the only spdif/usb converter that supports ASIO? I'm running Foobar2000 on Windows XP (my preference!). Preliminary research tells me ASIO will give me the best sound in WinXP while bypassing the "kmixer".


 
  I think HiFace 2 uses the XMOS USB chip, and drivers are from Thescyon and provided by the chip manufacturer.  So basically any other USB/SPDIF converter using the XMOS chipset should provide the same drivers and support ASIO, such as the V LINK 192, Stellu U3, Anedio U2, etc.  Not sure if any of these are cheaper than the HiFace though.  Ther are probably other chips/drivers that support ASIO as well that I have not mentioned.


----------



## D2Cowones

The hiface2 drivers are provided by M2Tech, and it's possible also to bypass the mixer with KS (kernel streaming) and Wasapi in Windows with corresponding foobar components.
   
  I haven't tested yet as for bitperfect I use KS, but the difference with previous hiface,  is that hiface2 also allows native ASIO (in previous one ASIO4ALL needed).
   
  From what I remember, is the cheapest (or one of them) using XMOS


----------



## robertsong

But sound-wise isn't true ASIO better than ASIO4ALL and KS?  Hiface2 is the only that advertises ASIO that I have found so far. I may just settle for one of these.


----------



## D2Cowones

surely native ASIO is better than ASIO4ALL which is the solution for devices which have not native ASIO.
   
  For the rest, there are a lot of oppinions, and I guess maybe depends on the device too.
   
  The best is own testing, actually is quite easy, is just downloading 3 components (for asio, ks or wasapi)  and change the output in the player configuration. Foobar has got recently new version of wasapi component (3.0), if I remember well, ASIO is a little bit older and actually the grandpha is KS


----------



## robertsong

Quote: 





d2cowones said:


> The best is own testing, actually is quite easy, is just downloading 3 components (for asio, ks or wasapi)  and change the output in the player configuration.


 
   
   
  Big thanks. I see how it works now.


----------



## D2Cowones

OK! no problem, your question was useful to remind me I am still pending to test the hiface2 with asio


----------



## Solude

Not likely I know but, has anyone heard some or all of the XMOS reference designs side by side?  The common ones being the Stello U3, Anedio U2, MF V-Link192 and the m2tech HF2.  Curious if the full sized ones bring anything that the HF2 doesn't already for less.


----------



## schalliol

I have one coming for my old MacBook Pro that doesn't support 24/192 drivers on its own, and I wondered how any Mac users like it.  Since there's no driver, does this just show up in the standard Audio MIDI setup where one can select the sample rate?  I assume Amarra would change the bit rate as it does with the optical built into my MacBook Pro.


----------



## Baten

Quote: 





schalliol said:


> Since there's no driver, does this just show up in the standard Audio MIDI setup where one can select the sample rate?


 
   
  Yup, that's what happens.
   
  I have mine delivered but waiting for an optical cable to arrive before I can start playing with it.


----------



## grokit

solude said:


> Not likely I know but, has anyone heard some or all of the XMOS reference designs side by side?  The common ones being the Stello U3, Anedio U2, MF V-Link192 and the m2tech HF2.  Curious if the full sized ones bring anything that the HF2 doesn't already for less.




I would love to read this comparison. I would also love to write it, I have the V192 but would need to borrow the other three for a bit...


----------



## Chodi

This is interesting because if these manufacturers are doing this properly their usb device would have no sound of its own. I think we would all agree that coloration of the source is not desirable.The object here is a neutral device that has no sound signature. If you want to color the sound there is plenty of opportunity to do that down the line (or even in the source program with eq). I think with these usb interfaces the real issue is the ability to resolve detail.


----------



## grokit

solude said:


> Not likely I know but, has anyone heard some or all of the XMOS reference designs side by side?  The common ones being the Stello U3, Anedio U2, MF V-Link192 and the m2tech HF2.  Curious if the full sized ones bring anything that the HF2 doesn't already for less.




Also the Wavelength WaveLink HS  (bottom of page) is XMOS, as well as implementing their Streamlength protocol that they license to others like the Halide Bridge. One was sold here on the forums recently at $450 (half the new retail price).


----------



## fradoca

i use this external power supply for the hiface two :
   
  http://www.aqvox.de/usb-power_en.html
   
  the benefit of using this external power supply are:
   
  1)Better precision on attack and decay of transients.Better articulation on the bass frequency range.
  2)Better focus on mid and high frequencies.
   
   
  For what it costs it's really worthy.


----------



## spkrs01

Quote: 





fradoca said:


> i use this external power supply for the hiface two :
> 
> http://www.aqvox.de/usb-power_en.html
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for your thoughts regarding the power supply. Out of interest what type of USB cable are you using, material wise?


----------



## fradoca

Quote: 





spkrs01 said:


> Thanks for your thoughts regarding the power supply. Out of interest what type of USB cable are you using, material wise?


 
   
   
  I don't use any usb cable.The hiface two is connected to the aqvox power supply as shown here :
   
  http://www.aqvox.de/webpics/stecker_USB-A-mf_gr.jpg
   
  then this connector is hooked to the motherboard of my pc daw.
   
  In my next audio daw i'll use this card to filter out ubs noise coming from the pc :
   
  http://sotm-audio.com/english/products/tx-usbexp.php


----------



## grokit

The Aqvox looks nice, but there seems to be some polarity issues:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/aqvox-usb-power-supply-problems-7610/


----------



## schalliol

I just installed a HiFace 2 and find that my 2.8GHz C2D MacBook Pro sometimes skips playing 24/192.  I know this is not a new machine, but this machine was not running much and is equipped running a dual drive 7200RPM RAID 0 and 6 GB of RAM.  Using iStat Menus, I can see that there is plenty of CPU overhead and memory.  Does anyone have ideas here?  I'm testing out Amarra with this adapter, and it's possible Amarra has something to do with it.  Thanks!


----------



## Solude

Try iTunes, try optical.  Might be the software or HeadRoom.  Don't have a Mac but try not using anything fancy either, if it was a PC I'd say no WASAPI, ASIO or KS until DS is working.


----------



## grokit

Go to the Amarra thread, there's probably a setting or two to tweak, like increasing the memory buffer size for example.


----------



## fradoca

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The Aqvox looks nice, but there seems to be some polarity issues:
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/aqvox-usb-power-supply-problems-7610/


 
   
   
  old model issue.read here :
   
" _I did wrote you already, there was no problem with our powersupply, the version you bought from italy is just an old model, we informed our dealers some months ago to send back old models for update - but your dealer did not send them back for update obviously. And it is not our fault that you did pay high-customs -but I would also be nerved."_


----------



## schalliol

Thanks, everyone.  I can't use optical at 192 as a limitation of the built-in driver, but I just increased the preload amount to 1GB, and that seemed to take care of it!


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Does anyone else having issues with HiFace2 occasionally disappearing from the system on Windows 7? Replugging usually fixes the problem.


----------



## DrTone

andrew_wot said:


> Does anyone else having issues with HiFace2 occasionally disappearing from the system on Windows 7? Replugging usually fixes the problem.




Yes occasionally. Not sure what triggers it.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Is that a fact, wondering what information you have to say so?
   
  Quote:


warrenr said:


> Cool.
> 
> I seem to remember that the old HiFace needed to use attenuators to control the output.  Is that still the case?
> 
> Cheers.


 
   
  Quote: 





theshaman said:


> Nope. Not needed.


----------



## Solude

HiFace2 output a normal 500mV spdif output.  HiFace1 output 5V!  Which is why it needed an attenuator


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





solude said:


> HiFace2 output a normal 500mV spdif output.  HiFace1 output 5V!  Which is why it needed an attenuator


 

 Great, thanks for the info!


----------



## oldson

Quote: 





chodi said:


> Late with an answer but I just noticed this post. You probably set the Hiface as your default speaker in Windows. You should not have the Hiface set as default. Select whatever you use for your normal Windows sound as the default (onboard sound or sound card). That alone may solve your problem. It will also prevent Windows from trying to access the Hiface for normal Windows sound. I assume you are using some form of bit perfect output selection in your software player (Foobar, JRiver,etc.). I use the Hiface with Foobar set for kernal streaming and it works perfectly. After making the same mistake as you, I did have to reset things by powering down and holding down the power button for 30 seconds. That reset the computer to look again at the usb ports during boot and completely solved the problem.


 
  even later with this reply
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  i use only my headphone system for pc sound.
  i do not have desktop speakers.
  this is why my hiface is set as default.


----------



## oldson

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> Does anyone else having issues with HiFace2 occasionally disappearing from the system on Windows 7? Replugging usually fixes the problem.


 
  had same problem from day one.
  only happens occasionally,


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





oldson said:


> had same problem from day one.
> only happens occasionally,


 

 HiFace One was rock stable.  Hopefully next driver version will fix it. One other thing that I have noticed that even when playing in KS mode, volume changes in Windows Control Panel/Sound does affect output volume. Isn't that done via kmixer which supposed to be bypassed?
   
  With HiFace One I could completely disable the sound in Control Panel and still have it playing via KS in foobar2000.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

EDIT: deleted


----------



## oldson

i am using wasapi.
  what makes KS better?


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





oldson said:


> i am using wasapi.
> what makes KS better?


 
   


 Even with WASAPI changes to volume in Windows Control Panel affect foobar2000 output, almost like it's still going through kmixer.
  KS and WASAPI should be the same, except WASAPI can take higher toll on CPU due to integer to float conversion
   
  http://www.m2tech.biz/knowledge.html
  Quote: 





> [size=small]Windows: WASAPI
> WASAPI (Windows Audio Standard API) is a application protocol interface developed for Windows Vista and Seven (it doesn’t exist for Windows XP) which allows for bypassing the kernel mixer without the need for a kernel streaming player or driver. The sound quality that can be obtained using WASAPI is comparable to that obtained in kernel streaming mode. One difference is that WASAPI operates in floating point format, so two conversion are needed (integer-to-floating from the player to WASAPI and floating-to-integer from WASAPI to the driver). This means that WASAPI loads the CPU a little more than plain kernel streaming. On the other hand, WASAPI allows for a wider choice of players. WASAPI is bit-perfect, provided conversion are correctly done.[/size]


----------



## oldson

i assume to use KS means insalling a new "plug-in" and disabling the wasapi one??


----------



## Roller

KS should only be used on Windows XP since it doesn't support WASAPI, which is also a bitperfect output method, however it's much more stable and with better compatibility with a wide range of DACs. For Windows Vista/7/8, WASAPI should be used instead.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





roller said:


> KS should only be used on Windows XP since it doesn't support WASAPI, which is also a bitperfect output method, however it's much more stable and with better compatibility with a wide range of DACs. For Windows Vista/7/8, WASAPI should be used instead.


 

 Hmm, No.
  KS is what recommended by M2Tech regardless of Windows version, of course if the player of choice doesn't support kernel streaming, WASAPI will do just as good. Read the link in my reply.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

You just install KS component from foobar2000 components page
  http://www.foobar2000.org/components
  And follow instruction in HiFace manual, all you do is just switching to different output (KS: M2Tech Audio 2.0 Output)


----------



## Solude

Roller is correct.  KS doesn't exist on Windows 7.  Anything resembling functional KS is just a driver catch converting to WASAPI.  Also, Foobar's WASAPI implementation is a whee bit buggy.   JRiver works though, even on Event Style.  KS = XP, WASAPI = W7.  Technically I have the PWD2 and not the HiFace2 but both are XMOS and use the same driver so... ya.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

That's news to me, care to elaborate or point to the source of that discovery. If what you are saying is true, M2Tech has no clue about Windows audio modes as they always recommend KS over anything else and this is how they compare two in their FAQ.
   
   
  Quote: 





> [size=small]*Windows: kernel streaming*
> Kernel streaming is the most “audiophile” playback mode available in Windows. When a kernel streaming compatible player deals with a kernel streaming compatible device (and driver), data go from the player directly to the driver, by means of a memory buffer which is written by the player and read by the driver. This way, the kernel mixer is totally bypassed and no processing is performed on the data, except that done by the player itself. The kernel streaming mode has another advantage: it requires very few CPU time, so it allows every PC, even the less powerful one, to handle high resolution files without hiccups. Kernel streaming is inherently bit-perfect.
> *Windows: WASAPI*
> WASAPI (Windows Audio Standard API) is a application protocol interface developed for Windows Vista and Seven (it doesn’t exist for Windows XP) which allows for bypassing the kernel mixer without the need for a kernel streaming player or driver. The sound quality that can be obtained using WASAPI is comparable to that obtained in kernel streaming mode. One difference is that WASAPI operates in floating point format, so two conversion are needed (integer-to-floating from the player to WASAPI and floating-to-integer from WASAPI to the driver). This means that WASAPI loads the CPU a little more than plain kernel streaming. On the other hand, WASAPI allows for a wider choice of players. WASAPI is bit-perfect, provided conversion are correctly done.[/size]


----------



## Solude

They also think SPDIF is 5Vpp so um ya, I'll stop there


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





solude said:


> They also think SPDIF is 5Vpp so um ya, I'll stop there


 

 But can you please reveal the source of your intel (KS not SPDIF)? 
   
  BTW, this one is from Hiface Two manual.
   
   
  Quote: 





> *6.2. Configuring a PC with Windows Vista or Windows 7*
> A PC with Windows Vista or Windows 7 can use hiFace Two in four different ways: Direct
> Sound (DS), Kernel Streaming (KS), WASAPI and ASIO. DS is suitable for players which
> can’t operate in Kernel Streaming mode nor with WASAPI or for Internet streaming; KS
> ...


----------



## Solude

Without boring you with a MSDN article explaining how to code W7 audio...
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_legacy_audio_components
   
  Also from a player point of view...
   
  http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Both links says nothing about KS being removed, yes WASAPI is preferred programming model that *allows* avoid kernel programming, that's it.
  This article on the other hand provides more insight on changes made to Audio architecture in Vista and beyond
  http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=25937
  Click on Details, to open the article up, apparently KS is still there with good ole NT days WDM, and still remains the most direct path to audio driver.
   
  Or this article
  http://promos.chooch.us/archives/479
   
   
  Quote: 





> *WDM KS* (Windows Driver Model / Kernel Streaming) has been around since Windows 98. WMD is a universal driver structure and behavior making it possible to use a single binary driver for Windows 98 through Win7. Kernel Streaming is just what it sounds like: audio and video streams directly through the Windows Kernel offering extremely low latency. *The kernel, if you’re wondering, is really the heart of an Operating System – being the lowest level software that everything else is built upon.*
> Since Windows 2000, MME and DirectSound are actually built _on top_ of WDM/KS – so obviously you want to go WDM native to remove the extra layer between your software and equipment.
> *WASAPI* (Windows Audio Session API) was introduced with Windows Vista, but hasn’t seen wide adoption because it doesn’t really provide anything that Kernel Streaming doesn’t and generally doesn’t provide better performance than ASIO.
> So, WASAPI is in a weird mid point where it overlaps, but doesn’t bring much new to the table. In addition, it doesn’t provide sample rate conversion, so it requires all audio streams to use the same sample rate as the audio hardware (same as Ardour and JACK under Linux) which can either be a confusing pain the ass, or give a hit in audio quality because an application has poor conversion code.


----------



## Roller

KS wasn't removed on Windows Vista/7/8, it is simply too buggy to be considered on modern OSes. Unfortunately, there are still many audio hardware manufacturers that have guides on how to set up computers in order to have optimal audio playback, but they haven't been updated since legacy Windows XP.
   
  Users that are running modern OSes basically have two options for bitperfect playback, WASAPI or ASIO (yes, even non-ASIO compliant devices work by adding a wrapper).


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> Both links says nothing about KS being removed


 
   
  Oh I don't know, the word obsolete to me tends to indicate that to me.  Or that KS specifies working in XP but not Win7.  Tell you what, you find me the MSDN article that says KS is alive in Windows 7 and that WASAPI didn't replace it as the exclusive mode


----------



## Andrew_WOT

It says it right there.
   
  Quote: 





> *What level of compatibility exists between XP and Windows Vista™ drivers?* *Default Driver Model: WDM*
> As with Windows NT, Windows 2000 and Windows XP, the foundation of Windows Windows Vista™ is the Windows NT kernel, and as with Windows 2000 and Windows XP, the default driver model is the Windows Driver Model (WDM). This portion of Windows Vista™ has remained remarkably unchanged with Windows XP.
> *WDM Port Class Models*
> Also, as with Windows 2000 and Windows XP, the foundation of any WDM audio device driver has remained unchanged. All PCI WDM audio drivers are based upon the WDM audio "Port Class" and Windows Windows Vista™™ supports all Windows XP "Mini Port" models, including "Wave Cyclic" and "Wave PCI". Also, all USB / 1394 WDM audio drivers are based upon "Stream Class" or "A/V Stream".
> ...


 
   
  Audio kernel, WDM stays the same, so if kernel is there so is the streaming to it. WASAPI is nothing but another layer on the top of it. And speaking of buggy, WASAPI still has a long way to iron out all the wrinkles. Peter, creator of KS and WASAPI foobar2000 plugins, even put the latest WASAPI version in "sandbox" to avoid OS crashes.


----------



## Solude

One that's not a MSDN article and its in relation to Vista.  Two at least get to the bottom before coming to conclusions...
   
*More User Mode, Less Kernel Mode*
In this model, nearly all blocks in the picture above run in user space. The only portion of this architecture that runs in kernel mode is represented by the single block called "Audio Driver", and it contains only a minimal amount of Microsoft code. It contains only the Microsoft "Port Class" Driver, the Vendor "Miniport" driver and Vendor Hardware Abstraction Layer portions depicted in the XP driver architecture diagram. *Note that the Windows "Kernel Mixer" (or kMixer) is completely gone.*
   
  I like Foobar but lets call it what it is, a project by a user group that isn't paid.  But they would tell you to use WASAPI.
   
  http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Components_0.9/foo_out_ks
   
  Anyway, I'm out.  I use JRiver with WASAPI-Event Style and it works as advertised.  You couldn't pay me to return to Foobar.


----------



## Roller

KS is always more buggy than the worst case scenario for WASAPI, so if you don't care about system stability, feel free to use deprecated KS on Windows Vista/7/8, but it certainly is the worst option for bitperfect playback on those OSes.
   
  Also, KS was already buggy on Windows XP, but that OS was limited to KS or ASIO compliant devices. Newer OSes have no such limitations.
   
  EDIT: foobar2000 is, IMHO, the best audio player for Windows systems, and both WASAPI 2.1 and 3.0 Event mode work perfectly well. ASIO is the only viable alternative to WASAPI.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





roller said:


> KS is always more buggy than the worst case scenario for WASAPI, so if you don't care about system stability, feel free to use deprecated KS on Windows Vista/7/8, but it certainly is the worst option for bitperfect playback on those OSes.
> 
> Also, KS was already buggy on Windows XP, but that OS was limited to KS or ASIO compliant devices. Newer OSes have no such limitations.
> 
> EDIT: foobar2000 is, IMHO, the best audio player for Windows systems, and both WASAPI 2.1 and 3.0 Event mode work perfectly well. ASIO is the only viable alternative to WASAPI.


 
   
   
  From the horse's mouth on WASAPI stability in foobar2000
  http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Components_0.9/foo_out_wasapi
   
  Quote: 


> Unfortunately, WASAPI is affected by various bugs in both Windows mixer and soundcard drivers. To keep these from crashing foobar2000, all WASAPI access is now sandboxed in a separate process for better stability.


 
   
  We can argue that till our faces turn blue but as far as I concerned if KS is what M2Tech recommends for use with their "proprietary driver", I am sticking with the manufacturer's recommendation.


----------



## Roller

I advise you to read http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Components_0.9/foo_out_ks instead of talking about something you have shown to have little experience with.
   
  I'm done arguing. So, good luck.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





roller said:


> I advise you to read http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Components_0.9/foo_out_ks instead of talking about something you have shown to have little experience with.
> 
> I'm done arguing. So, good luck.


 

 What are your credentials to proclaim yourself an expert?
  KS has been used since the dawn of time, I personally never had any issues with that, did take my time researching current Windows Audio stack architecture which (surprise) still support KS and based on the same old WDM core.
  I am interested in the best performance I can get out of *M2Tech HiFace Two* and if the manufacturer still advocates KS as the best, cleanest, and the least resource consuming way to exercise their own driver why would I be interested in opinion of some wanna-be internet expert like you.


----------



## Solude

Pretty defensive over something you are simply a consumer of with no vested interest   Just an FYI, m2tech didn't design the HiFace2 circuit XMOS did, m2tech also didn't code the driver Thesycon did.  But it's your leisure time so if KS makes you happy don't let us stop you.


----------



## silversurfer616




----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





solude said:


> Pretty defensive over something you are simply a consumer of with no vested interest   Just an FYI, m2tech didn't design the HiFace2 circuit XMOS did, m2tech also didn't code the driver Thesycon did.  But it's your leisure time so if KS makes you happy don't let us stop you.


----------



## K_19

With my Hiface 1 (into my Stello DAC in Windows 7), I definitely notice some sound differences between the WASAPI and the KS. The WASAPI sounds more forward in midrange/upper midrange with tighter upper bass, and KS sounds like it has more emphasis down low and up high but with more of a withdrawn midrange. This always made me curious as I always figured that the two modes should sound exactly the same if they are bitperfect... but somehow I'm hearing differences here so I guess that means one of them is not doing it right... or that I'm imagining things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Not sure if this is relevant to this current debate at hand, but just thought I should mentioned it.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





musiqsound said:


> [size=10pt]My listening experience in regard to Naim DAC was close to yours. I would only be reserved towards your Rega DAC and Naim DAC [/size]comparison. To my ear it was really having a big difference, especially in the perception of the soundstage, details, it was really feeling more “achieved”; When you add the external power supply, it also raise to a new level of quality which cannot be reasonably compared.
> 
> [size=10pt]Regarding U3 facing hiFace 2, I happen to have the two pieces of equipment at the same time to test; switching from one to another was a bit difficult because they happen to use the same piece of software but not the same version from Thesycon… So to be sure I have added the hiFace EVO in between, compared hiface 2 to EVO, hiface 2 to U3 and EVO to U3. To be honest, even if the components are very close to each other inside (I am preparing the article on the U3 at the moment, I will publish it soon), the hiface 2 does not sound as well as the EVO which itself does not sound the same than the U3 [/size][size=10pt]J[/size][size=10pt]. In the overall, at iso-setup (computer/cables/amp/speakers) the EVO is softer and mellower than hiFace which sounds more “analytic” without the brio of  Antelope or Weiss in this register. The U3, to my ear, gives a cleaner picture than the EVO, especially in details, this is sharper and the planes are sometimes better defined. I find that the EVO is warmer in sound signature than the U3, this last one sounds sharper, one could say “cleaner”... [/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]So…….This is more a question of taste, in the overall I would say that these products fall in the same range, not especially “better” or “worst”. Depending on my additional tests for my article, I might change of opinion though. If ever I had a wrong setup during my first test session …the second session planned will tell! [/size]


 
   
   
  I was wondering if you, or anybody else had the chance to compare both to the Halide Brige in terms of [size=10pt]details, and sound separation[/size]?


----------



## TheWuss

acix -
  i have owned several SPDIF converters.
  and i would rank them:
   
  1.  audiophilleo2 with pure power
  2.  bridge by halide powered by vaunix USB hub
  3.  hiface evo with evo battery supply
  4.  bridge by halide (powered by computer USB)
  5.  hiface evo (powered by switching power supply included)
  6.  hiface mk1 (powered by computer USB)
  7.  audiophilleo2 (powered by computer USB)
   
  hope that makes sense.
  i guess the overarching theme here is that the clocks inside all these converters are incredibly sensitve to power.
  every one i've ever owned has improved by being run off batteries or a low-noise power supply.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> acix -
> i have owned several SPDIF converters.
> and i would rank them:
> 
> ...


 

 That's very interesting. Have you had a chance to test Hiface Two or One with separate power supply?
  There is a good discussion on Aqvox power supply and cheaper alternative
  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97076.120


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> acix -
> i have owned several SPDIF converters.
> and i would rank them:
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Thanks a lot for your recommendations, the Vaunix USB hub looks like a great solution for the halide and probably for the hiface 1 as well. Have you had the chance to check out the Stello U3?


----------



## TheWuss

no.  i haven't heard the stello.
  nor have i heard the second hiface design.
   
  i have a jkenny dac headed this way, which has his implementation of the hiface built in (powered off batteries).
  i have heard very good things about it...


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Has anyone experimented with ASIO output on HiFace2?
  To me it sounds the cleanest and with the most dynamics, even though Peter (foobar2000 output plugins author) claims that there is no reason to use it under Windows Vista and beyond, what piqued my interest is this.
   
Audio Output Methods by JRiver
  Quote: 





> Choosing Audio Quality Output Mode  Choose the best output for your hardware in this order:
> 1) *If your hardware has a native, well-behaved, ASIO driver, use ASIO.*
> 2) Otherwise, on Windows Vista, Windows 7, or newer, use WASAPI exclusive.
> 3) Otherwise, use Kernel Streaming if it works.
> ...


 
   
  And I swear it sounds quite better than either KS or WASAPI in foobar2000, the feed goes into Chord DAC64.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





solude said:


> One that's not a MSDN article and its in relation to Vista.  Two at least get to the bottom before coming to conclusions...
> 
> *More User Mode, Less Kernel Mode*
> In this model, nearly all blocks in the picture above run in user space. The only portion of this architecture that runs in kernel mode is represented by the single block called "Audio Driver", and it contains only a minimal amount of Microsoft code. It contains only the Microsoft "Port Class" Driver, the Vendor "Miniport" driver and Vendor Hardware Abstraction Layer portions depicted in the XP driver architecture diagram. *Note that the Windows "Kernel Mixer" (or kMixer) is completely gone.*


 
   
  Missed that reply, I kind of suspected that there is a confusion between Kernel Mixer and Kernel Streaming just was hesitant to point out the obvious.
  BTW, JRiver dudes recommend ASIO, see my previous reply. From new Windows Audio Stack architecture layout that makes sense as ASIO goes straight to audio driver


----------



## Solude

Again the point of KS in XP is to bypass KMixer.  Kmixer is gone in Windows7, ie KS has nothing to bypass which as you can see in the diagram is why its MIA.  Windows 7 talks WASAPI and ASIO.  
   
  And Yes JRiver recommends ASIO where possible.  Problem is there aren't many USB>SPDIF adapters that do ASIO.  So like JRiver recommends after that its WASAPI, Event Style if possible.
   
  I think you think Kernel Streaming actually does what its name implies... stream directly to the audio kernel.  That's not the case, all it ever did was bypass the kmixer section of the audio kernel in XP.
   
  Sorry it's a pet peeve of mine.  That and ASIO4All.  Give you a hint, ASIO4All is not a free lunch to ASIO performance, just support.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





solude said:


> Technically I have the PWD2 and not the HiFace2 but both are XMOS and use the same driver so... ya.


 
   
  Quote: 





solude said:


> Again the point of KS in XP is to bypass KMixer.  Kmixer is gone in Windows7, ie KS has nothing to bypass which as you can see in the diagram is why its MIA.  Windows 7 talks WASAPI and ASIO.
> 
> And Yes JRiver recommends ASIO where possible.  Problem is there aren't many USB>SPDIF adapters that do ASIO.  So like JRiver recommends after that its WASAPI, Event Style if possible.
> 
> ...


 
  But if your PWD2 use the same Thesycon driver as HiFace Two which comes with native ASIO support, why would you choose WASAPI over it.
   
  http://www.usbdacs.com/hs24192/hs24192.html
   
  Quote: 





> The Thesycon system includes a Control Panel for debugging and setting options. Nothing really needs to be addressed for that and you will not need it. *The Thesycon suite also includes an ASIO driver so do not run your new device through any of the after market ASIO drivers like ASIO4ALL as it will cause a conflict in which nothing will work.* There is also WASAPI and Kernel Mode inclusion in the driver installation as well as the standard Direct Sound interface.


 
   
  It's also covered here http://www.head-fi.org/t/562732/stello-u3-async-usb-to-coax-aes-ebu-transport-impressions-updated


----------



## Solude

Mostly because my previous DACs didn't support ASIO and I didn't even check to see if it was there for XMOS.  It is, and I've switched over now /facepalm  But my Burson, W4S, Stello, AP2 didn't support ASIO.
   
  That said, I'd put money down that WASAPI Event Style is likely more reliable for streaming packet bursts over USB.  And I say this because USB isn't really streaming in the SPDIF sense of the word, it sends a burst when scheduled.  Event style means the XMOS is dictating when the burst comes instead of waiting for the USB controller to throw and having to react.
   
  That's a whole other discussion.


----------



## qbroid

I recently found this on a Chinese online shopping site
  http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=18644516688
  I think this will be a good external power supply IDEA for hiface, too bad they only have type B for those external usb interface/DACs which use a cord to connect to PC. Also, they specify it as "power adapter for usb soundcard" and "power supply from PC isolated".
   
  The only similar thing I can find is "MikroTik 5VUSB 5V Power Injector for USB". However, I cannot find information of whether the power from PC is isolated or not. Besides, it is not specified as an audio accessory, so I guess it may not fit the idea of using a complete isolated power for hiface.
   
   
  Any way, I am trying to find a cheap alternative for the aqvox usb power supply. Does any one know anything else besides the two things I mentioned above? Specifically, something like the first thing I mentioned but with a type A usb.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Anda

Quote: 





qbroid said:


> The only similar thing I can find is "MikroTik 5VUSB 5V Power Injector for USB". However, I cannot find information of whether the power from PC is isolated or not. Besides, it is not specified as an audio accessory, so I guess it may not fit the idea of using a complete isolated power for hiface.


 
   
  In a couple of weeks I'll get the Mikrotik from a fellow head-fier. I'll check if power is isolated and get back to you.
  I guess the best (and pretty expensive) options are the Aqvox and Vaunix hub.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





qbroid said:


> I recently found this on a Chinese online shopping site
> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=18644516688
> I think this will be a good external power supply IDEA for hiface, too bad they only have type B for those external usb interface/DACs which use a cord to connect to PC. Also, they specify it as "power adapter for usb soundcard" and "power supply from PC isolated".
> 
> ...


 

 MikroTik should work, I believe JKenny was recommending it as alternative to Aqvox, the problem is finding the right PSU that doesn't make things worse than they are.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





solude said:


> Mostly because my previous DACs didn't support ASIO and I didn't even check to see if it was there for XMOS.  It is, and I've switched over now /facepalm  But my Burson, W4S, Stello, AP2 didn't support ASIO.
> 
> That said, I'd put money down that *WASAPI Event Style is likely more reliable for streaming packet bursts over USB*.  And I say this because USB isn't really streaming in the SPDIF sense of the word, it sends a burst when scheduled.  Event style means the XMOS is dictating when the burst comes instead of waiting for the USB controller to throw and having to react.
> 
> That's a whole other discussion.


 
   
  Exactly.
   
  Also, ASIO's real purpose is to provide low latency audio for recording usage, not for playback, despite obviously working as such.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





roller said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Also, ASIO's real purpose is to provide low latency audio for recording usage, not for playback, despite obviously working as such.


 

 Not sure if you have HiFace 2, but it comes with native ASIO drivers and at least to my ears sounds better through ASIO than both WASAPI and KS.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> Not sure if you have HiFace 2, but it comes with native ASIO drivers and at least to my ears sounds better through ASIO than both WASAPI and KS.


 
   
  Ah, so you no longer defend KS with your life? Good.
   
  In any case, ASIO is an output method meant for recording purposes, as I mentioned previously. But if it sounds best to your specific ears, then great as that's what matters most.


----------



## Chodi

Funny, I have the Hiface 2 and I use it with Foobar in WASAPI event output. I have used it for a long time with KS mode and switched to WASAPI event because it sounds better to my ears. I guess everyone hears this stuff differently.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





roller said:


> Ah, so you no longer defend KS with your life? Good.
> 
> In any case, ASIO is an output method meant for recording purposes, as I mentioned previously. But if it sounds best to your specific ears, then great as that's what matters most.


 

 You didn't answer my question, do you own HiFace 2 or you just post here to share your personal opinions or stuff you read somewhere on things in general, and insult the people along the way. That surely doesn't add much value to this "HiFace Two" thread.
  What's your setup, what DAC, amp, phones did you use for evaluation? Have you noticed any differences between different output methods, what buffer settings and latency you use, upsampling method if any, etc?
   
  WASAPI is just another complex layer of indirection on the top of audio driver, not the shortest and cleanest path comparing to KS and ASIO, it's pretty obvious from the earlier posted diagram which is not that hard to read even if you are not in a software architecture and design. It might sound as straight through path on paper but in reality just another Windows service that just gets in a way. It could be an answer for devices with not very stable or well behaving drivers or those that do not natively support ASIO, for these it's certainly better than ASIO4ALL kludge, for HiFace Two, at least based on my own experience, I am not so sure, as both KS and ASIO sounded cleaner to my ears than WASAPI, with ASIO 64bit drivers being the most stable and perceivably best dynamics option so far.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> *WASAPI is just another complex layer of indirection on the top of audio driver, not the shortest and cleanest path comparing to KS and ASIO*, it's pretty obvious from the earlier posted diagram which is not that hard to read even if you are not in a software architecture and design. It might sound as straight through path on paper but in reality just another Windows service that just gets in a way. It could be an answer for devices with not very stable or well behaving drivers or those that do not natively support ASIO, for these it's certainly better than ASIO4ALL kludge, for HiFace Two, at least based on my own experience, I am not so sure, as both KS and ASIO sounded cleaner to my ears than WASAPI, with ASIO 64bit drivers being the most stable and perceivably best dynamics option so far.


 
   
  I advise you to read further on such output methods instead of going by "what the manufacturer has on their site", since KS has been a deprecated method for a long time.
   
  I do agree that ASIO4ALL should be avoided and native ASIO drivers should be used instead if the user is working with audio recording, playback is certainly not what ASIO was developed for.
   
  Curiously, there are reports on this very same thread that indicate different people hear differently with the exact same hardware. The point being that different bitperfect output methods should have little to no difference between each other regarding sound quality.
   
  One thing about WASAPI that I think wasn't discussed previously is the difference between shared and exclusive mode. Some devices don't play nicely with shared mode, even introducing issues that therefore break bitperfect playback. If you used shared mode for WASAPI, I'd recommend you to set exclusive mode for WASAPI.
   
  From the moment a bitperfect output method doesn't measure better and is audibly improved, going by the theory that one output method isn't as short as the other is rather pointless.
   
  The next time, think before getting defensive and pulling a tantrum when civilized discussion was in order.
   
  In any case, I'm done arguing with you.
   
  Have a nice day.


----------



## drez

roller said:


> KS wasn't removed on Windows Vista/7/8, it is simply too buggy to be considered on modern OSes. Unfortunately, there are still many audio hardware manufacturers that have guides on how to set up computers in order to have optimal audio playback, but they haven't been updated since legacy Windows XP.
> Users that are running modern OSes basically have two options for bitperfect playback, WASAPI or ASIO (yes, even non-ASIO compliant devices work by adding a wrapper).




I still dont see what is wrong with KS, all the hardware I have used worked using KS in XP, Win7 and 8. I never knew wasapi was floating point, but i always thought it sounded inferior to KS, imho of course.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





drez said:


> I still dont see what is wrong with KS, all the hardware I have used worked using KS in XP, Win7 and 8. I never knew wasapi was floating point, but i always thought it sounded inferior to KS, imho of course.


 
   
  Sound quality wise, there is nothing wrong with KS. It's just that it was the vendor-independent bitperfect output method in XP, that was then superceeded by WASAPI after Vista's SP1. The issue with KS is one of stability, since it is highly dependent on southbridge and host controller implementations, which could produce stable results, but most reports were of issues severe enough to send systems into BSODs, mainly due to kernel mode drivers being used at the time.


----------



## drez

roller said:


> Sound quality wise, there is nothing wrong with KS. It's just that it was the vendor-independent bitperfect output method in XP, that was then superceeded by WASAPI after Vista's SP1. The issue with KS is one of stability, since it is highly dependent on southbridge and host controller implementations, which could produce stable results, but most reports were of issues severe enough to send systems into BSODs, mainly due to kernel mode drivers being used at the time.




Thanks for explaining. Strangely enough i have recently tried a player that uses direct mode (jie extreme player) which beats any other player I have tried. Who would have guessed... I always thought KS, ASIO or WASAPI were the only way to do high quality audio...


----------



## drez

Oops double post i blame bowser.


----------



## Jmstrmbn

Got the Hiface 2 for Christmas! Out of the box it sounded really digital and harsh and severely changed the signature of my setup (Macbook > Audirvana + > Nuforce HDP > Senn. HD600) is this typical or should i expect the sound to change with use like you hear about with most other components?


----------



## Baten

So.. my hiface 2 didn't work well with windows 8 (occasional freezes), so reverted back to windows 7. I was actually under the impression that windows 8 sounded better, though, so too bad. Hopefully a driver will fix this, or maybe I just butchered some settings OR my 13''macbookpro had some incompatibility.
   
  Jmstrmbn, the digital/harshness is probably out of contrast from whatever you were using before, I'm sure your ears will adjust over time (say a week or two tops). If you really dislike its sound signature, I'd consider returning the hiface. I personally like what it does to my set-up.


----------



## Loenn

Quote: 





> So.. my hiface 2 didn't work well with windows 8 (occasional freezes), so reverted back to windows 7. I was actually under the impression that windows 8 sounded better, though, so too bad. Hopefully a driver will fix this, or maybe I just butchered some settings OR my 13''macbookpro had some incompatibility.
> 
> Jmstrmbn, the digital/harshness is probably out of contrast from whatever you were using before, I'm sure your ears will adjust over time (say a week or two tops). If you really dislike its sound signature, I'd consider returning the hiface. I personally like what it does to my set-up.


 
   
  I had the same problems, after running the hiface2 driver and foobar2000 in windows 7 compatibility mode and using a mainboard USB 2.0 port, there are no more freezes for longer than one week. Before the freezes came every ~ 2 hours. But windows 8 doesn't sound better for me.


----------



## Baten

Quote: 





loenn said:


> I had the same problems, after running the hiface2 driver and foobar2000 in windows 7 compatibility mode and using a mainboard USB 2.0 port, there are no more freezes for longer than one week. Before the freezes came every ~ 2 hours. But windows 8 doesn't sound better for me.


 
   
  I am using a laptop so I can choose between only two USB ports, both had the freeze problems. I installed the driver in compatibility mode, but I had freezes even with spotify or sometimes just booting up with the hiface plugged in. I'm certain they just need to polish their drivers, instead they just went from "For Vista/7" to "For Vista/7/8". I did sent them a mail, maybe they'll take notice.


----------



## 405line

Don't see how anyone can argue with something that is fundamental...i.e the "Kernal", it's what the Windows sound architecture is built "on" from what I can tell, regardless of the operating system, why would anyone want to do a needless conversion from integer to floating point and the back again as is the case with Wasapi, this to me "flies in the face" of the whole premise of the Hiface, this cannot help sound quality, that's not to say you may not prefer the sound of the "conversion" required. Perhaps this the reason why there has not been any recent updates to the foobar kernal AFIK...as there is nothing to "add" I suspect.
   
  Does it matter if there is no K mixer in Vista /7 etc, the purpose of this process is to allow many different sound source sync rates to operate at the same time and speak from the same "sync-book" so to speak, I'm sure they still have a version (e.g an L for vista, M for Windows 7? ) of this somewhere but its now 32 bit instead of XP's 16 bit so it's less "bad" but it still does a needless conversion.
   
  I have a MK1 which I think may be better as someone mentioned here earlier the windows sound controls the volume on the mark2 version...is this a mirror of the players' volume? because on mine the Windows volume control has no effect...in fact its great as I can use my Behringer UCA202 for "ordinary sound" via Direct Sound and still have the Hiface playing through the HiFi. Can anyone shed some light on this situation and if it will have an effect on the sound due to resolution due to LSB losses and all that. I have mine connected via a 7port Belkin hub that is powered by a unregulated 6V@4A (linear) and then bought a ready made 3A regulator module that feeds the hub a regulated 8v...sounds good and a bit "sharper" since recently adding the outboard regulation.
   
  Would like to know if anyone uses the Young dac drivers as they work with Hiface...I do and I think they are better sounding.


----------



## philoouu

Hello
  I have a Hiface2 connected to my Mac and I run Audirvana. Sometimes (like once every week or two), my Hiface is not recognised anymore by my Mac. I am not sure what is triggering it but the only way to make it seen by the Mac again is to disconnect it and reconnect it. Actually my Hiface is connected to a Power USB device which is connected to my Mac but I am pretty sure the Power USB device is not causing any trouble. This happened once when I change albums when listening music. When I look at the console it says The IOUSBFamily is having trouble enumerating a USB device that has been plugged in.
  Some people on this post on this post had issues with USB not being recognised too so I was wondering if they have found a reason and/or a solution. In my case I am not sure of the reason (Hiface2, Mac OS, Audirvana...) but I would appreciate any advice/help.
  I neved had any issued with Hiface1 but I was using different software also so it is very difficult to compare.
   
  Thanks
  philoouu


----------



## spkrs01

Quote: 





philoouu said:


> Hello
> I have a Hiface2 connected to my Mac and I run Audirvana. Sometimes (like once every week or two), my Hiface is not recognised anymore by my Mac. I am not sure what is triggering it but the only way to make it seen by the Mac again is to disconnect it and reconnect it. Actually my Hiface is connected to a Power USB device which is connected to my Mac but I am pretty sure the Power USB device is not causing any trouble. This happened once when I change albums when listening music. When I look at the console it says The IOUSBFamily is having trouble enumerating a USB device that has been plugged in.
> Some people on this post on this post had issues with USB not being recognised too so I was wondering if they have found a reason and/or a solution. In my case I am not sure of the reason (Hiface2, Mac OS, Audirvana...) but I would appreciate any advice/help.
> I neved had any issued with Hiface1 but I was using different software also so it is very difficult to compare.
> ...


 
   
  Hi,
   
  I had that problem too, my HiFace 2 not being recognized, but since I have followed a fixed routine, the problem has largely been eliminated. I now power down my amp first, followed by switching off the music player and I use MC18, and then switching off the DAC.
   
See if this will work for you.


----------



## philoouu

Thanks. I leave for days Audirava/Itunes open; may be I should close it systematically at the end of each session. Once the USB connection disappeared in the middle of the session. The other time it happened was at the beginning. I cannot reproduce the problem so it makes it very difficult to find the reason. It does look like Hiface1 was more stable than Hiface2.
  philoouu


----------



## hubee

Quote: 





philoouu said:


> Hello
> I have a Hiface2 connected to my Mac and I run Audirvana. Sometimes (like once every week or two), my Hiface is not recognised anymore by my Mac. I am not sure what is triggering it but the only way to make it seen by the Mac again is to disconnect it and reconnect it. Actually my Hiface is connected to a Power USB device which is connected to my Mac but I am pretty sure the Power USB device is not causing any trouble. This happened once when I change albums when listening music. When I look at the console it says The IOUSBFamily is having trouble enumerating a USB device that has been plugged in.
> Some people on this post on this post had issues with USB not being recognised too so I was wondering if they have found a reason and/or a solution. In my case I am not sure of the reason (Hiface2, Mac OS, Audirvana...) but I would appreciate any advice/help.
> ..


 
   
  Hi,
  i've this issue as well. It is not the worst thin in the world... but would be nice to know why Hiface2 lose the USB connection sometimes.. For me the weirdest thing if i turn my mac mini on -have left the Hiface2 connected alst night- and Lion doesnt recognise it. So i must to do the disconnect/reconnect just after Lion starts.. :S


----------



## Andrew_WOT

New TheSycon driver available.
  Read here http://www.head-fi.org/t/562732/stello-u3-async-usb-to-coax-aes-ebu-transport-impressions-updated/180#post_9096788
  After inf modification outlined in the linked thread works for HiFace2 as well.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> New TheSycon driver available.
> Read here http://www.head-fi.org/t/562732/stello-u3-async-usb-to-coax-aes-ebu-transport-impressions-updated/180#post_9096788
> After inf modification outlined in the linked thread works for HiFace2 as well.


 
   
  1) Download driver from here http://www.luckit.biz/downloads/Luckit%20WaveIO%20Drivers%20(v1.63.0).rar
  2) Uninstall existing driver
  3) Unrar downloaded driver and replace inf and ini files with attachment
  4) Unplug HiFace2
  5) Start setup.exe and follow instructions
   
  Modded inf files attached


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> 1) Download driver from here http://www.luckit.biz/downloads/Luckit%20WaveIO%20Drivers%20(v1.63.0).rar
> 2) Uninstall existing driver
> 3) Unrar downloaded driver and replace inf and ini files with attachment
> 4) Unplug HiFace2
> ...


 
  I have the Hiface2. I followed the instructions above and everything installed without any problem. Fired up the Hiface2 using Foobar and reset the output source. Worked perfectly on the first try. It is too soon to say if there is any sonic difference but after a quick listen I certainly do not notice any degradation and perhaps a bit more detail but time will tell. I was encouraged to do this because my Windows 7 system usually did not recognize the Hiface 2 without unplugging it and plugging it back in after opening the computer. A minor hassle but if this will solve it I figured it was worth a try. If it delivers better sound that would always be a plus. Frankly, I have always found the Hiface 2 to deliver great sound quality so I have no complaints there. I will report back in a few days on how this works out in solving the problem of Windows recognizing the Hiface 2 on boot.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





chodi said:


> I have the Hiface2. I followed the instructions above and everything installed without any problem. Fired up the Hiface2 using Foobar and reset the output source. Worked perfectly on the first try. It is too soon to say if there is any sonic difference but after a quick listen I certainly do not notice any degradation and perhaps a bit more detail but time will tell. I was encouraged to do this because my Windows 7 system usually did not recognize the Hiface 2 without unplugging it and plugging it back in after opening the computer. A minor hassle but if this will solve it I figured it was worth a try. If it delivers better sound that would always be a plus. Frankly, I have always found the Hiface 2 to deliver great sound quality so I have no complaints there. I will report back in a few days on how this works out in solving the problem of Windows recognizing the Hiface 2 on boot.


 

 I had the same issue on Sony Vaio, so far after 3 reboots it's all right, I don't have to replug it anymore to get recognized by OS. Just make sure to fire up USB Audio Control Panel at least once (it's not in autostartup anymore) and disable Power Saving mode.


----------



## Chodi

So who or what is "Luckit"? When I installed this new driver the name Luckit is all over it. Does not effect the fact that it works perfectly, but I am curious. Is that perhaps another oem for this Thesycon driver that got it first? I have been listening to it for hours since the install and I swear instrument separation and detail are improved. I am wondering if anyone else finds this the case?


----------



## Audiofanboy

I'm definitely hearing an improvement with this new driver. Better microdetail retrieval and resolution mostly, but I could swear I'm also hearing a notable improvement in the bass response. Like more bass and maybe a bit tighter.
   
  Edit: Yup, obvious and major improvement in bass tightness and extension.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Has anyone noticed new driver being brighter or it's just me.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





chodi said:


> So who or what is "Luckit"? When I installed this new driver the name Luckit is all over it. Does not effect the fact that it works perfectly, but I am curious. Is that perhaps another oem for this Thesycon driver that got it first? I have been listening to it for hours since the install and I swear instrument separation and detail are improved. I am wondering if anyone else finds this the case?


 

 Just another XMOS based interface
  http://luckit.biz/new/?tcp_product=waveio


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





audiofanboy said:


> I'm definitely hearing an improvement with this new driver. Better microdetail retrieval and resolution mostly, but I could swear I'm also hearing a notable improvement in the bass response. Like more bass and maybe a bit tighter.
> 
> Edit: Yup, obvious and major improvement in bass tightness and extension.


 
  I am on the second day with the new driver and I can say for sure that what you are hearing I am also hearing. The micro detail is improved and so is the clarity and definition of the bass. Instrument separation is also improved. The difference is not subtle it is obvious. I am always careful to comment when I first hook up something new but this is a no-brainer.  The difference in clarity and transparency is obvious through my Stax system. I wonder why M2Tech doesn't have this posted on their site?
   
  I also have not had a problem with the system recognizing the device with the new driver installed (not yet anyway). On the whole, this is a major improvement.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> Has anyone noticed new driver being brighter or it's just me.


 
  It's just you. Sorry, just kidding. I don't hear any increased brightness. You may want to check your setting in your source player. This new driver does retrieve more detail which could result in apparent brightness with some recordings or it may be some setting you were using in your player (Foobar?). If you use any dsp plug-ins you may want to check the settings. I am suggesting you may want to try different settings in your player as things have gotten a lot more detailed with this new driver. In my case I didn't have to change anything but I did have to re-set the output in Foobar. You may want to make sure you are using the right output setting.


----------



## Audiofanboy

Quote: 





chodi said:


> It's just you. Sorry, just kidding. I don't hear any increased brightness. You may want to check your setting in your source player. This new driver does retrieve more detail which could result in apparent brightness with some recordings or it may be some setting you were using in your player (Foobar?). If you use any dsp plug-ins you may want to check the settings. I am suggesting you may want to try different settings in your player as things have gotten a lot more detailed with this new driver. In my case I didn't have to change anything but I did have to re-set the output in Foobar. You may want to make sure you are using the right output setting.


 

 Yeah, I don't believe the sound is brighter than before, though it *might* have ever-so-slightly better treble extension (hence the perception of extra detail and better separation). Definite improvement in bass on the other hand. I'm sure M2tech will come up with its own new driver at some point, in the meantime this is fine.
   
  Only problem is that the control panel doesn't start up automatically anymore but that shouldn't influence anything really. I haven't had the problem where I needed to disconnect and reconnect the hiface after startup for it to be recognized since upgrading. Hopefully the new driver solved that, not that it really bothered me.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





audiofanboy said:


> Only problem is that the control panel doesn't start up automatically anymore but that shouldn't influence anything really. I haven't had the problem where I needed to disconnect and reconnect the hiface after startup for it to be recognized since upgrading. Hopefully the new driver solved that, not that it really bothered me.


 
  I noticed the same thing. The control panel used to add to the task bar automatically at boot but after the upgrade it does not. Simple to add it to the start menu if you want it to load automatically at boot. You can also find it in your start menu program list under Luckit.


----------



## Audiofanboy

Quote: 





chodi said:


> I noticed the same thing. The control panel used to add to the task bar automatically at boot but after the upgrade it does not. Simple to add it to the start menu if you want it to load automatically at boot. You can also find it in your start menu program list under Luckit.


 

 There's also some strange new panel that appeared "TUSBAudio Spy Tool". There's a whole bunch of information appearing in there, most of which is useless to me... But it shows if you get buffer or package error with the USB interface and misc latency and timing details. For example, I now know that the latency setting I use with the Hiface 2 is only 1ms! (Minimum latency, but still that seems quite "critical", default safe latency is 16ms...)


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





chodi said:


> It's just you. Sorry, just kidding. I don't hear any increased brightness.


 
  Must have been my ears then, they just got over sensitive after the cold. Seems to be normal now.


----------



## Chodi

I'm a few days into this new driver and now I feel I have listened enough to say that the new driver brings Hiface 2 to a totally new level of performance. I am both amazed and very pleased at the improvement. The improvement in detail, transparency and tonal accuracy is astonishing. It is like a new and much better product with this driver. I am not given to easily becoming ecstatic about sonic performance improvements but this is something special so I just had to comment. If you own a Hiface 2 install this new driver and don't look back.


----------



## spkrs01

Could one of you guys provide clear instructions as to how to obtain and install this driver. I am just not too good with these things.
   
I tried following the above instructions and just got totally lost!
   
  Thanks very much!!!


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





spkrs01 said:


> Could one of you guys provide clear instructions as to how to obtain and install this driver. I am just not too good with these things.
> 
> I tried following the above instructions and just got totally lost!
> 
> Thanks very much!!!


 
  Just download the two files from this thread. You will have the driver file and a file labeled inf. Unrar the inf and copy the results into the driver file. Your computer will ask if you want to replace the existing file and just say yes. Then once you have replaced the inf in the driver just run setup. It is automatic at that point. Just click on install and when it finished reboot your computer. It should be ready to use. If you are using foobar as I am you will have to go into foobar preferences and once again select your chosen output device (Hiface2). You should also go into the sound control panel in Windows once to make sure it lists the Hiface2. The entire process takes five minutes.
   
  Any further problem report back and I will try to help.


----------



## spkrs01

Quote: 





chodi said:


> Just download the two files from this thread. You will have the driver file and a file labeled inf. Unrar the inf and copy the results into the driver file. Your computer will ask if you want to replace the existing file and just say yes. Then once you have replaced the inf in the driver just run setup. It is automatic at that point. Just click on install and when it finished reboot your computer. It should be ready to use. If you are using foobar as I am you will have to go into foobar preferences and once again select your chosen output device (Hiface2). You should also go into the sound control panel in Windows once to make sure it lists the Hiface2. The entire process takes five minutes.
> 
> Any further problem report back and I will try to help.


 
   
  Chodi,
   
  Thank you ever so much!
   
  I will try the install now......


----------



## spkrs01

Chodi,
   
  Done!!!
   
  Listening to "Old Love"  Eric Clapton Unplugged.
   
  Much more engaging and vibrant! The soundstaging has widen quite significantly and also the layering.
   
  Gonna listen to "Le Temp Passe" Michel Jonasz and test out the bass.
   
  Many many thanks.........


----------



## marcoc1712

Hi,
   
  has anyone compared the Hiface 2 with the JKSPDIF MK3 (modded version of the Hiface 1)?


----------



## Loenn

andrew_wot said:


> 1) Download driver from here http://www.luckit.biz/downloads/Luckit%20WaveIO%20Drivers%20(v1.63.0).rar
> 2) Uninstall existing driver
> 3) Unrar downloaded driver and replace inf and ini files with attachment
> 4) Unplug HiFace2
> ...





Hello,

i installed the driver as shown, but unfortunately the setup ends with an error:
 Pre-installation of ´C:\Program Files\Luckit\USBAudio_Driver\USBLuickitks.inf´ failed.

I use Windows 8, tried in Win7 Compatibility mode as well... Hiface 2 Drivers 1.57 run withoiut problems.

Thanks for help!!


Found the solution ! It's a Windows 8 specific problem.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/preinstallation-failed-please-run-setup-again-if-you-are-asked-confirm-installation-software-please-confirm-13783/


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





loenn said:


> Hello,
> 
> i installed the driver as shown, but unfortunately the setup ends with an error:
> Pre-installation of ´C:\Program Files\Luckit\USBAudio_Driver\USBLuickitks.inf´ failed.
> ...


 
  You may have hit on why M2Tech hasn't released this. I am using Windows 7 64bit and no problems. I would doubt that compatibility mode would work for drivers but I have no experience with Windows 8. Unfortunately this new driver did not solve the problem of the driver not being recognized all the time on boot. The sound is so fantastic that I don't care about the minor issue with having to sometimes unplug and replug the device to get the driver recognized.
   
  Just curious- did you uninstall the device and the old driver before doing the new install? If it was me I might try that before giving up. Believe the sonic difference is worth the effort.


----------



## hubee

Quote: 





marcoc1712 said:


> Hi,
> 
> has anyone compared the Hiface 2 with the JKSPDIF MK3 (modded version of the Hiface 1)?


 
  I haven't had the opportunity. But it would be interesting!


----------



## Audiofanboy

Tried an interesting experiment with Hiface Two yesterday. After hearing about the "biblical" scale improvements an external power source could bring to the Hiface, and all the people raving about it, and after checking the retail prices of different power solutions (Aqvox USB power supply, JKSPDIF, Kingrex Li-ion, LiFePO4 batteries...), I decided to try and make a basic external power supply myself.
   
  So, I found an old Samsung phone charger from like 2005 in one of my drawers, 5V 700mA, which seemed appropriate to power the Hiface. And a basic USB extension cable (USB A, Female to Male connectors) with fairly good quality connectors. Time to chop some cables!
   
  I cut the phone side connector from the phone charger and cleared about 1cm / 1/2" of the core cable (+5V) and shielding (Ground), twisted them and tinned the ends. I chopped off both the male and female connectors from the USB extension cable, hacked my way through the thick plastic around the connectors, trying hard not to destroy the plugs, and eventually revealed the backside of the connectors with 4 very convenient slits to solder cables on each connector (where cables were soldered originally).
   
  Alright, I now had a ready to solder power supply and naked USB male and female connectors ready to be soldered on. A USB plug and cable has 4 lines: +5V, D+, D- (the two data lines in the center of the plug), and Ground. Apparently, to use external power on a USB peripheral you still need to have the ground connected along with the data lines and only leave the +5V line disconnected (otherwise the peripheral is powered on but not recognized by the computer).
   
  Next, since I needed to connect two data lines and the Ground between both naked USB connectors, I cut three 2.5 cm / 1" pieces of quality Mogami cable that I had left over from a previous project and stripped and tinned these. With both USB connectors facing in a complementary way (like if I were to plug one into the other, so that the lines can be soldered straight across and not have to be inverted, but not facing each other), I soldered the data lines and ground between plugs. Then I soldered the external power supply +5v and ground lines to the peripheral (female connector) side.
   
  Tested, it worked (powered on the Hiface Two and it was recognized by the computer, unlike the prototype I made, which didn't have the USB ground soldered and was useless). Which just left the insulation and strain relief steps, drown the solder points and cable in hot glue (basically drown everything but the plugs in hot glue), add heat shrink over everything but the end of the male plug (so it can be plugged...), add even more hot glue wherever you still can inside the heat shrink (you can never have enough glue), apply heat to heat shrink until it, well, shrinks. And voila, you have a external power supply hooked to a USB cable for your Hiface! An inch and a half long, sturdy, and for free, not for $100 retail or whatever you paid for your Hiface in the first place...
   
  Now, I wasn't expecting much out of this mod, it was meant more as a test to see just *how much* of an improvement I should expect to see on the Hiface Two using any other power than the "dirty" computer USB. Well, for an hour-long free essentially free mod, I was flabbergasted!
   
  Not only did the external power supply work, it turned the Hiface into *a totally different beast*! We're not talking about minor improvements but something like a different product. Much *better soundstaging* and *instrument separation*, much better upper and *low extension *(outrageous low mids and bass), *extra-detailed* and natural presentation. Gone the ever-so-slight upper mid glare, replaced with a *balanced frequency response* and *beautiful mids*. And *fast*, fast, fast sounding too, decay is so unlike the plain vanilla Hiface I didn't even imagine you could get that kind of sound with the Hiface (this is a must-do mod if you use a Hiface with *orthos*, if not just for those gorgeous mids).
   
  Anyway, I was not expecting a change that dramatic with a crappy 5V switching phone charger; now I'm wondering what kind of improvements I could get from a linear power supply or different kind of batteries (without hacking the Hiface itself, that's my limit). I strongly encourage anyone with a soldering iron, hands and a Hiface to try this. For an hour of work, it is more than worth it!
   
*And again, I made no changes to the Hiface itself, so no warranty or reselling issues*, you'll still have your plain vanilla Hiface afterwards. And you can reuse the USB external adapter for other devices!
   
  Next I'll try to make another USB adapter that delivers 5V with batteries, again just to test and see the difference (if there is one), maybe a very basic 4 x 1.2V Ni-MH battery powered USB adapter. Ideas and suggestions are welcome!


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





audiofanboy said:


> Tried an interesting experiment with Hiface Two yesterday. After hearing about the "biblical" scale improvements an external power source could bring to the Hiface, and all the people raving about it, and after checking the retail prices of different power solutions (Aqvox USB power supply, JKSPDIF, Kingrex Li-ion, LiFePO4 batteries...), I decided to try and make a basic external power supply myself.
> 
> So, I found an old Samsung phone charger from like 2005 in one of my drawers, 5V 700mA, which seemed appropriate to power the Hiface. And a basic USB extension cable (USB A, Female to Male connectors) with fairly good quality connectors. Time to chop some cables!
> 
> ...


 

 Would be interesting to see how your perception of the improvement change if, with someone's help, you can do a series of blind tests. Not saying that there won't be any.


----------



## Audiofanboy

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> Would be interesting to see how your perception of the improvement change if, with someone's help, you can do a series of blind tests. Not saying that there won't be any.


 

 Ah, the blind test argument... I see what you're getting to. Never was a fan of either true blind testing or the opposite extreme (i.e, raving about thousand $ power cables without comparing). I usually try to trust my ears over a few thorough hours of testing and try to reach a fairly unbiased conclusion that way (audio is by definition quite subjective, though I do like to have some objective measurements to ground my testing on of course).
   
  Yes, I tested, numerous times between with and without an external 5V power supply. No, it wasn't blind. Yes, I found a difference. Yes, the difference was immediately obvious. No, it wasn't immediately obvious that the difference was positive (for a a moment, it seemed negative, external sounded thinner for a few tracks, while USB powered sounded thicker). Yes, after testing with a number of single tracks 10 times each and switching every time, I quickly realized that the major difference was in favor of the external power supply (thinner as in much better defined and immensely more extended, thicker as in, less defined and more bloated which can lead to think that the sound is more pleasant - just like high jitter bass that sounds heavier because it's less defined). No doubts after an hour of testing. Trust me, I'm pretty thorough in my audio tests, blind or not. If I have a doubt, I'll say so and keep testing until I can decide if a mod is worth it or not (especially if money is involved). In this case, there was no expectation bias, as I my goal was basically to prove to myself that it _wasn't worth it to buy a $100 Aqvox linear power supply_. Guess I killed two birds with one stone... I didn't spend $100 and a found an interesting way to improve my Hiface  .
   
  This being said, I understand what you mean, and I would love to be able to abx such mods just to make sure and quantify the change. Alas, I can't. And in this case, the degree of improvement surprised me so much that I intend to make a second battery powered trial.
   
  What reassures me is that I'm not the only one who found out that the Hiface 1 or 2 and most SPDIF interfaces benefit from "clean" 5V supplies, I just managed to get the same result without spending any extra cash. So, I'd be surprised if I were totally wrong in my conclusions...


----------



## Chodi

Interesting test and results. This is bound to cost me some money as I am now obligated to try this and I am not inclined to build it myself. I do use an external power usb port but now I must try one of these low noise power supplies. Since installing the new driver the sound is so good that further improvement may bring on cardiac arrest. We will just have to see as I can't leave this untested.


----------



## leeperry

Just for the record, the H2 is following the XMOS datasheet implementation and has a Semtech SC4626A switching-mode voltage regulator(with a working freq of 2.5MHz) feeding the XMOS chip itself. The noisier the input PSU, the worse SQ will get because HF noise will mostly end up being amplified, so there is no question that even a silly cellphone charger with a very short DC cable could provide a SQ improvement over the shared ATX PSU IMHO.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Just for the record, the H2 is following the XMOS datasheet implementation and has a Semtech SC4626A switching-mode voltage regulator(with a working freq of 2.5MHz) feeding the XMOS chip itself. The noisier the input PSU, the worse SQ will get because HF noise will mostly end up being amplified, so there is no question that even a silly cellphone charger with a very short DC cable could provide a SQ improvement over the shared ATX PSU IMHO.


 

 No doubt about that.
  For anyone interested in cheaper than Aqvox solution
  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97076.120


----------



## Audiofanboy

Great, I'd been looking for a good cheap linear power supply. Do you know if it only comes with a US plug for 110V, or if it's universal 100-240V? Or basically where to get a similar linear supply with other types of plugs (say western european)?


----------



## hubee

Have anyone had the opportunity to do A/B comparison between two Hiface2s? We have made some days ago.. because the other owner didn't liked his system's sound with his Hiface2. He has a Hiface2 with Serial: 3xxx , mine is an earlier with serial 1xxx. We made the comparison at a friends system on a Macbook pro with more types of music (aiff cd quality& above).
  The two Hiface2 -s didn't sound the same ! Most of the time we preferred mine with serial 1xxx... the two piece is quite different... Mine has a bit small soundstage, and a bit less bass but it's sound character is playsome/loveable. The Hiface2 with serial 3xxx has a much bigger soundstage, has more bass (sometimes too much!) but it has nothing from this loveable char.. 
   
  Is there somebody who knows anything about Hiface2 firmwares ? We think that this could be maybe the reason why they sound so different. + in the windows driver there is the opportunity to make a firmware change, there can be browsed the firmware file, some .bin . Is there someone... who knows where can be the firmwares downloaded ? Or only M2Tech has these files?


----------



## Audiofanboy

Quote: 





hubee said:


> Have anyone had the opportunity to do A/B comparison between two Hiface2s? We have made some days ago.. because the other owner didn't liked his system's sound with his Hiface2. He has a Hiface2 with Serial: 3xxx , mine is an earlier with serial 1xxx. We made the comparison at a friends system on a Macbook pro with more types of music (aiff cd quality& above).
> The two Hiface2 -s didn't sound the same ! Most of the time we preferred mine with serial 1xxx... the two piece is quite different... Mine has a bit small soundstage, and a bit less bass but it's sound character is playsome/loveable. The Hiface2 with serial 3xxx has a much bigger soundstage, has more bass (sometimes too much!) but it has nothing from this loveable char..
> 
> Is there somebody who knows anything about Hiface2 firmwares ? We think that this could be maybe the reason why they sound so different. + in the windows driver there is the opportunity to make a firmware change, there can be browsed the firmware file, some .bin . Is there someone... who knows where can be the firmwares downloaded ? Or only M2Tech has these files?


 

 My hiface two has a 05xx serial number and *sounds* quite like you describe in general terms, intimate realistic soundstage and very musical and balanced frequency response.
   
  I  haven't had a chance to hear an other unit, but I wouldn't be surprised to find hardware differences. After all, the first hiface had that one revision at some point with the poor smaller 44.1 clock that sounded like crap, and eventually reverted to a large quality clock generator, after trying to cover up the problem for a while. So, the differences could be on the board and not in the firmware (never found firmwares for the hiface two anyway, and wouldn't be from Thesycon like the drivers, and not from m2tech, so with no real variety compared to other XMOS based chips?).


----------



## Audiofanboy

Alright, I just finished making and testing a different battery-powered prototype to supply 5v to the Hiface Two. For the record, here's a pic of the previous phone charger-powered prototype.
   

   
  The easiest way to do this was with a set of 4 Ni-MH rechargeable batteries (1.2V nominal voltage each, a bit above that for quality rechargeables, so somewhere between 4.75 and 5V hopefully, at least before the batteries discharge too much), Li-Ion/Li-Po would have been ideal but it's 3.7V per cell, or 3.2 for LiFePo4 and supposedly not for beginners. I bought a cheap cheap USB battery pack with no electronics or regulator (which is what I needed for Ni-MH, normal AA would need to be regulated down to a stable 5V though), essentially a plastic case with space for 4 AA batteries and a female USB output. So, "pure" 5V-ish power going straight to the Hiface. I bought the one shown below because it has an on-off switch too so I don't need to fiddle with the USB cable too much. But I saw many different models, and honestly you could probably just make one yourself, soldering four batteries together with prongs and some green wrap. I used 4 average 2500 mAh batteries, I'll probably upgrade to some nice Eneloop low self discharge ones eventually, I wanted to see if it worked before that though.
   
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002PHC1XU/ref=pe_217191_31005151_3p_dp_1
   

   
   
  Based on my previous USB to USB 5V hijack hackjob, I made another similar one replacing the 5V and ground input from an external charger with a shielded USB male cable (pics below). I also used better inner cabling for the data lines (shielded Mogami 2549, 22awg copper, shield attached to D- line on the source side and left "floating" on the device side) for the inch of cabling in the USB adapter, and tried to add some shielding to the data lines.
   

   
  Basic extender as you can see. Yes, matte red shrink wrap is ugly, but it was all I had, and yes I went a little crazy on hot glue. But at least it's solid and safe to use. And as you can see, it only adds about an inch of USB cable, plus the plugs, compared to the stock Hiface. The whole mess once plugged into the Hiface is actually not that long, and even the battery supply has a short cable that shouldn't pick up too many interferences.
   

   
  Now, on to testing. Well, first of all, it works, which I really wasn't sure it would, as the voltage should be a bit on the low side of USB specs. And, this time as expected, it sounds great, much better than the crappy 5V phone charger mod (duh).
   
  Same improvements as going from USB power to basic external power, but better on all aspects. Great soundstage and separation (it sounds corny, but it's one of the first times I feel that the musicians are almost there in the room, or at least it's the closest I've ever gotten to that feeling), balanced frequency response and slightly better extension (especially on the low end, which seems very sensitive to power supply), best PRaT and decay I've ever gotten out of my system too. And above all, very musical, so natural I just end up relaxing instead of testing.
   
  At any rate, I don't believe it makes the Hiface compete with $1000 transports, but it really shows how much of a bottleneck getting a good clean S/PDIF signal out of the computer is, and how much your converter and its power supply are critical to getting that (and the clocks used, but that's another story). Probably the only way to get better sound out of the Hiface Two is to tap directly into the components with 3.3V from LiFePo4 batteries like JKenny does, but I don't think I'm ready for that yet haha; plus it would actually come out quite expensive with the batteries and charger, whereas I spent less than $20 here.
   
  Now the only remaining problem is to figure out how long the Ni-MH batteries can supply enough voltage to stay within USB specs and power the Hiface, as they should quickly drop below 1.2V and therefore below 4.75V total, which is the low end of USB specs...


----------



## Acix

Hubee, sounds like a big change in the sound. Have you guys connected both units to the same USB hub?


----------



## Acix

Audiofunboy, great work man! I cant wait to see the final self discharge version. I think I'll try first the 5VUSB power injector with a nice Jemko Euro like transformer.


----------



## Audiofanboy

LSD batteries might wait a few days, since my current batteries seem to be doing fine for now. I've already powered the Hiface for 4-5h from maybe 80% full batteries, I'm just hoping I can get at least 10-15h before the voltage drops too much, enough for like a few evenings of music and movies basically.
   
  I'm still curious how a linear PS fares compared to batteries though. Since, the best both options give is a stable 5V input, which is still going to go through a DC-DC converter once in the Hiface (and probably still be quite inferior to direct 3.3V input). Please don't hesitate to post impressions when you get to try the 5V injector!


----------



## hubee

Quote: 





acix said:


> Hubee, sounds like a big change in the sound. Have you guys connected both units to the same USB hub?


 
  Yes we used the same Mac, the same USB port. One or two songs listened with one Hiface, and then pulled it out and changed to another Hiface.
  Yes, i think it's a relative big difference. And more if i think that these are the same device... at least theoritically..


----------



## hubee

Quote: 





audiofanboy said:


> My hiface two has a 05xx serial number and *sounds* quite like you describe in general terms, intimate realistic soundstage and very musical and balanced frequency response.
> 
> I  haven't had a chance to hear an other unit, but I wouldn't be surprised to find hardware differences. After all, the first hiface had that one revision at some point with the poor smaller 44.1 clock that sounded like crap, and eventually reverted to a large quality clock generator, after trying to cover up the problem for a while. So, the differences could be on the board and not in the firmware (never found firmwares for the hiface two anyway, and wouldn't be from Thesycon like the drivers, and not from m2tech, so with no real variety compared to other XMOS based chips?).


 

 Thanks for your reply. And.. on windows why is there a firmware tab in the driver ? This should be there with a reason i think. It could be a hardware difference, but i hope not :S


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





hubee said:


> Thanks for your reply. And.. on windows why is there a firmware tab in the driver ? This should be there with a reason i think. It could be a hardware difference, but i hope not :S


 
  The driver is as oem product sold to several vendors. That was probably put there by the software designer to create a selling point to the various oem customers. It is not something that M2Tech requested for their own purpose (although they might have thought it potentially useful).


----------



## Audiofanboy

Quote: 





hubee said:


> Thanks for your reply. And.. on windows why is there a firmware tab in the driver ? This should be there with a reason i think. It could be a hardware difference, but i hope not :S


 

 Yes, there is a firmware upgrade tab on the windows driver. But again, bear in mind that this is a Thesycon driver and not M2Tech, which means the firmware upgrade tab doesn't necessarily mean the firmware is upgradeable on the Hiface Two, or that M2Tech intends to make their firmwares public. I know I've read of cases for the Hiface 1, where someone had to send his unit back to M2Tech to get "his firmware changed" for whatever reason.
   
  For the record, my firmware upgrade tab shows: "Device: M2Tech USB Audio 2.0 (VID: 0x249C PID: 0x930B)"
  Don't know if that's even useful or not, but just in case...


----------



## Anda

Quote: 





audiofanboy said:


> For the record, my firmware upgrade tab shows: "Device: M2Tech USB Audio 2.0 (VID: 0x249C PID: 0x930B)"
> Don't know if that's even useful or not, but just in case...


 
   
  VID: Vendor ID
 PID: Product ID
   
  This is just used to identify the USB device.


----------



## Audiofanboy

Quote: 





anda said:


> VID: Vendor ID
> PID: Product ID
> 
> This is just used to identify the USB device.


 

 Any chance the Product IDs could be ever-so-slightly different *if* different revisions of the Hiface Two were made, you think? More like, do you think it could be a way to check if that's actually the case?


----------



## Anda

Quote: 





audiofanboy said:


> Any chance the Product IDs could be ever-so-slightly different *if* different revisions of the Hiface Two were made, you think? More like, do you think it could be a way to check if that's actually the case?


 
   
  I don't know if this would be the case. I guess it's up to the vendor. I don't know if they would change product ID for new revisions. Mine has 06xx serial and same ID as yours:
   
  Quote: 





> _$ lsusb
> Bus 001 Device 004: ID 249c:930b_


----------



## Jmstrmbn

Would this work to power the Hiface 2?
   
  http://www.amazon.com/OEM-UTStarcom-USB-Adapter-Cable/dp/B002W8EDOM/ref=pd_sim_cps_4
   
  I have a powered USB hub which I thought would do the trick but it is only powered when not plugged into the computer so had no real benefit.  I thought this would allow me to plug the HIface into the hub for power and computer for signal simultaneously.  
   
  Any thoughts?
   
  Thanks in advance for the help


----------



## Somnambulist

Got my eye on a cheapish 2nd hand one of these. Combined with external power (e.g. AQVOX power supply) do people using these with a SBT + EDO really notice a big difference? I have the John Swenson PSU for mine which gives it rock solid voltage and zero noise, and was planning on just using either a well-shielded coax cable or glass optical... but I'm tempted to dip my toes with a reclocker without paying crazy prices.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





somnambulist said:


> Got my eye on a cheapish 2nd hand one of these. Combined with external power (e.g. AQVOX power supply) do people using these with a SBT + EDO really notice a big difference? I have the John Swenson PSU for mine which gives it rock solid voltage and zero noise, and was planning on just using either a well-shielded coax cable or glass optical... but I'm tempted to dip my toes with a reclocker without paying crazy prices.


 
   
  Right now I'm using the Klotz VL06L/37 with great results, I also need to finish the Vandamme cable, and the Klotz V06/37H, I'll compare them soon after some burn in. I usually go for the pro studio cables first.


----------



## Acix

My DIY spdif 75 ohm cable, green Klotz VL06L/37 with a black Amphenol RCA connectors.


----------



## Somnambulist

Very nice. Truth be told I'm kind of jonesing for a used Stello U3 which I could use with an XLR adapter to directly connect it to the M51 at the back. At £365 new it's too much though, so it'd have to be 2nd hand. The other option will be to see if the new JKenny converter is compatible with the SBT as it's USB Audio Class 2, but that's about £330 as well, although it won't need an AQVOX or some such, which I'd have to buy for the U3.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





somnambulist said:


> Very nice. Truth be told I'm kind of jonesing for a used Stello U3 which I could use with an XLR adapter to directly connect it to the M51 at the back. At £365 new it's too much though, so it'd have to be 2nd hand. The other option will be to see if the new JKenny converter is compatible with the SBT as it's USB Audio Class 2, but that's about £330 as well, although it won't need an AQVOX or some such, which I'd have to buy for the U3.


 
   
  I had the same thoughts as first about the Stello U3 but the price keeped me away. One day I'll be happy to compare them both, but for now I love the sound of the hiface 2. I've ordered the 5VUSB power injector to try to improve it even more... in the meanwhile looks like Audiofanboy have a great time start on post #291.


----------



## Audiofanboy

Quote: 





acix said:


> I had the same thoughts as first about the Stello U3 but the price keeped me away. One day I'll be happy to compare them both, but for now I love the sound of the hiface 2. I've ordered the 5VUSB power injector to try to improve it even more... in the meanwhile looks like Audiofanboy have a great time start on post #291.


 

 I am indeed having a great time with my DIY Ni-MH power injector! I just upgraded to better batteries, Eneloop 2000 mAh low self discharge. No it doesn't sound better than crappy batteries, but since I'd noticed the sound quality went down the drain in the last 30 minutes of battery life (when the voltage suddenly collapses), I figured if batteries have a better voltage, then the hiface *might* sound better. Better batteries last longer regardless, and with spares I don't have to wait for 16h of recharge without music...
   
  Anyway, for a few dozen $/€, I'd still encourage people to try it, as it's the cheapest battery-powered solution I know of for the Hiface.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





audiofanboy said:


> I am indeed having a great time with my DIY Ni-MH power injector! I just upgraded to better batteries, Eneloop 2000 mAh low self discharge. No it doesn't sound better than crappy batteries, but since I'd noticed the sound quality went down the drain in the last 30 minutes of battery life (when the voltage suddenly collapses), I figured if batteries have a better voltage, then the hiface *might* sound better. Better batteries last longer regardless, and with spares I don't have to wait for 16h of recharge without music...
> 
> Anyway, for a few dozen $/€, I'd still encourage people to try it, as it's the cheapest battery-powered solution I know of for the Hiface.


 
   
   
  What about a linear regulated PSU, do you think will bring it to the same SQ level as the batteries? BTW, what should be the best fit 5V 800mA, or 700mA?


----------



## Audiofanboy

Quote: 





acix said:


> What about a linear regulated PSU, do you think will bring it to the same SQ level as the batteries? BTW, what should be the best fit 5V 800mA, or 700mA?


 

 If you have a choice, I'd say batteries. After all, that's the way the whole DAC and converter world is leaning right now (albeit more expensive lithium based batteries). I'd investigate batteries if they turn out to be cheaper -which they should be theoretically but not necessarily- and a quality linear PSU otherwise. If possible, a PSU with a solid 1W of 5V DC output most likely (USB is 500 mW), knowing that the Hiface 2 draws something around 120 mW, just to have a nice power overhead.


----------



## Gicu Gicu

Hello guys,

 My first post here comes with a question.

 Can I use this (or is this safe to use) with the M2Tech HiFace2 instead of 4 x 1,2V batteries? > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Momax-iPower-Turbo-16800mAh-External-Battery-Dual-USB-LED-Flash-Light-Black-/140912320981
  Link to manufacturer: http://shop.momax.net/?sp=&p=6&cat2=727&cat1=144&cat0=51&id=3963&cat1=144&cat0=51&new=&more=&s=1b8c0b7fdb453b2ce325d2c95cb568c0&lang=en

 In short, I believe it's a Li-Ion/Li-Po battery. Is it as good for the sound as the NiMh option?

 Top features


 *Utilizes battery cell made by Samsung*
 
 Capacity: 16800mAh
 Output 1: 5.0V 1A


----------



## Audiofanboy

Quote: 





gicu gicu said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> My first post here comes with a question.
> 
> ...


 

 I see no reasons why it wouldn't work, so long as you find a way to"inject" that power into the Hiface. Technically Ni-MH would be inferior solution, it just happens to be real easy to implement, but Lithium-based batteries would be better in terms (no so much in terms of sound, as in their battery performance).


----------



## Gicu Gicu

It has a "intelligent processor" that I think it detects the need to be active. So, if it would not detect the hiface it would not work. I will modify a usb cable to connect the hiface.

 If I understood, i just have to disconnect the "+" from the USB that goes into the computer, and leave the "-" connected to it. And for the "injection" connect the "+" and "-" to the USB that hiface will connect, right?


----------



## leeperry

It's more than likely using a switching-mode voltage regulator IMHO, so the sonic advantage of batteries will go down the drain.


----------



## Audiofanboy

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> It's more than likely using a switching-mode voltage regulator IMHO, so the sonic advantage of batteries will go down the drain.


 

 Would a DC-DC regulator be that bad you think? It might I guess, as the hiface adds another one so 3.7V -> 5V -> 3.3V, seems a bit silly...
   
  Yes, both data lines through from Hiface to computer, and just "break" the +5V connection between hiface and computer and leave ground connected. Then add +5V and ground from power supply to hiface, all of this with the shortest path/wires possible.


----------



## Gicu Gicu

Ok, if that external battery isn't good, i must stick to 2000-2500mAh NiMh batteries?  How many working hours should I expect from them?


----------



## Audiofanboy

Quote: 





gicu gicu said:


> Ok, if that external battery isn't good, i must stick to 2000-2500mAh NiMh batteries?  How many working hours should I expect from them?


 

 The Ni-MH mod thingie I did is basically just a cheap compromise you know, its main advantages are that it costs close to nothing and its works very well short of a full LiFePo4 battery system on a strongly modded Hiface. You could expect anything south of 20 hours, 15 hours easily (120 mA draw from the Hiface). With brand new pre-charged (to 75% of full capacity) 1900 mAh Eneloop batteries I got a consistent 14 hours on each set of 4 batteries, so fully charged I expect 18-19 hours total, which doesn't seem like much but is actually not bad at all.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

M2Tech just published new HiFace2 drivers
  http://www.m2tech.biz/hiface2.html#driver


----------



## Audiofanboy

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> M2Tech just published new HiFace2 drivers
> http://www.m2tech.biz/hiface2.html#driver


 

 Interestingly, M2Tech says these are 1.6.1 drivers, whereas the Luckit ones I've been using for a few weeks are 1.6.3. Older drivers? Even worth installing?


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





audiofanboy said:


> Interestingly, M2Tech says these are 1.6.1 drivers, whereas the Luckit ones I've been using for a few weeks are 1.6.3. Older drivers? Even worth installing?


 
  The Luckit drivers were such an obvious improvement I think I will stay with them. I would imagine these are the same since they come from the same source. Perhaps each oem uses their own numbering scheme for their version of the drivers. I seriously doubt it would improve on the Luckit version.


----------



## Baten

Quote: 





chodi said:


> The Luckit drivers were such an obvious improvement I think I will stay with them.


 
   
  Interesting, I'll give them a try.
   
  Anyway, M2Tech coming out with a new product:
   
  http://www.m2tech.biz/hiface_dac.html
   
  any word on this yet?


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





baten said:


> Interesting, I'll give them a try.
> 
> Anyway, M2Tech coming out with a new product:
> 
> ...


 

 If you look at new inf from drivers there are two new products
   
  "hiFace TWO"=_Install, USB\VID_249C&PID_930B
 "hiFace TWO"=_Install, USB\VID_249C&PID_930C
 "Joplin"=_Install, USB\VID_249C&PID_930D
*"hiFace DAC"*=_Install, USB\VID_249C&PID_930E
 "hiFace DAC"=_Install, USB\VID_249C&PID_930F
*"Mercury DAC"*=_Install, USB\VID_249C&PID_9310
 "Mercury DAC"=_Install, USB\VID_249C&PID_9311
  
  And regarding the driver I could only guess that it's either slowness of the manufacturer making OEM packaging or 1.61 is more stable. At least this is version Stello packaged with U3 too and seems like arguably it might even sound better, could be a placebo as well.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/562732/stello-u3-async-usb-to-coax-aes-ebu-transport-impressions-updated/225#post_9132701
   
  I think 1.61 sounds a tad weightier.


----------



## Chodi

The Hiface DAC just looks like an attempt to catch more of the portable market with what looks like a simple all in one solution. I think this latest driver has just added the DAC drivers to accommodate the new product. I doubt it would make any noticeable difference with the Luckit version if you are using the Hiface 2. I like what I am getting with the Luckit driver so I am not motivated to try the new ones but I am always looking for other opinions if someone wants to post the test.


----------



## Acix

Audiofanboy's, I've found this 12V/3800mAH USB 5V/5600mAH Li-ion Rechargeable Battery on ebay. Do you think this will do the job? I also was thinking maybe I can power at the same time the Apogee mini DAC 12V 3.3A. Any thoughts, suggestions are welcome
   
  Here is the link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/170932979162?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
   
  This battery is cheaper, and looks a bit stronger...but without the led indicator: http://www.ebay.com/itm/271155681791?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## Acix

In my search I've found the Tekkeon myPower ALL Plus MP3450i Battery (5-19V), that looks like a great product but I'm not clear on the specs yet, for the 5V only this will probably be just fine but at this price start to compete with the Aqvox.
   
  As well on the B&H site the reviews are very positive, and on Amazon the reviews are on the opposite side, http://www.amazon.com/Tekkeon-myPower-Provides-Laptops-Devices/product-reviews/B004Z8ZHD8/ref=pd_sxp_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
   
  Maybe they have improved the R3, http://www.tekkeon.com/products-mypowerall.html
   
  Have you guys have any experience with this product?


----------



## leeperry

If not stated clearly otherwise, you can rest assured that they all use a very noisy switched mode VR...so solder a $1 5V phone wallwart onto a USB cable and you'll be saving a bunch of money in the process ^^


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> If not stated clearly otherwise, you can rest assured that all use a very noisy switched mode VR...so solder a $1 5V phone wallwart onto a USB cable and you'll be saving a bunch of money in the process ^^


 
   
  Yes, this is strange with the Tekkeon at this price point, but what about the ebay links ^^ above?


----------



## oldson

i am still using the original driver (1.50) not had any issues.
  is it worth updating to the latest driver, and what are the benefits?


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





oldson said:


> i am still using the original driver (1.50) not had any issues.
> is it worth updating to the latest driver, and what are the benefits?


 
  There is an overall sonic improvement to the new driver that I frankly did not expect. It is not subtle. I suggest you take the free upgrade you won't be sorry.


----------



## spkrs01

Quote: 





chodi said:


> There is an overall sonic improvement to the new driver that I frankly did not expect. It is not subtle. I suggest you take the free upgrade you won't be sorry.


 
   
  Chodi
   
  Is this update better than the Luckit driver?
   
  Thanks


----------



## spkrs01

I have been listening to the M2Tech 1.61 for the last 45 minutes.
   
  It is definitely more technically proficient compared to the Luckit driver. Immediately noticeable is the dynamic contrast, better separation, darker backgrounds and a larger soundstage. Detail retrieval is pretty incredible with the highs seemingly much more extended. Mids are pushed a more forward comparatively, and bass seems tighter and faster.


----------



## goodvibes

Quote: 





audiofanboy said:


> Ah, the blind test argument... I see what you're getting to. Never was a fan of either true blind testing or the opposite extreme (i.e, raving about thousand $ power cables without comparing). I usually try to trust my ears over a few thorough hours of testing and try to reach a fairly unbiased conclusion that way (audio is by definition quite subjective, though I do like to have some objective measurements to ground my testing on of course).
> 
> Yes, I tested, numerous times between with and without an external 5V power supply. No, it wasn't blind. Yes, I found a difference. Yes, the difference was immediately obvious. No, it wasn't immediately obvious that the difference was positive (for a a moment, it seemed negative, external sounded thinner for a few tracks, while USB powered sounded thicker). Yes, after testing with a number of single tracks 10 times each and switching every time, I quickly realized that the major difference was in favor of the external power supply (thinner as in much better defined and immensely more extended, thicker as in, less defined and more bloated which can lead to think that the sound is more pleasant - just like high jitter bass that sounds heavier because it's less defined). No doubts after an hour of testing. Trust me, I'm pretty thorough in my audio tests, blind or not. If I have a doubt, I'll say so and keep testing until I can decide if a mod is worth it or not (especially if money is involved). In this case, there was no expectation bias, as I my goal was basically to prove to myself that it _wasn't worth it to buy a $100 Aqvox linear power supply_. Guess I killed two birds with one stone... I didn't spend $100 and a found an interesting way to improve my Hiface  .
> 
> ...


 
  Nice mod and fun to find out for yourself.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I'm still not a big fan of usb audio but that usually does help. Try a regulated linear supply sometime. Usually almost as big an improvement over a switching one as it was over PC power. For unmodded usb, I like the Halide bridge but prefer other methods overall.


----------



## Audiofanboy

Quote: 





goodvibes said:


> Nice mod and fun to find out for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 A linear power supply would be pretty cool and flexible but I can't see how it would beat batteries. I'm still baffled by how realistic the sound I'm getting is with my cheap mod compared to USB power and basic 5V  power supplies, or just in general compared to high-end systems I've heard, and virtually for free too.
   
  It's interesting that the feedback about the latest M2tech driver -supposedly an earlier version than the Luckit one (?) - is that it is much better than the earlier M2tech drivers and the Luckit driver. I'll try it out tonight. At any rate, I'm still surprised by each incremental improvement I'm getting with the Hiface 2 every time I change... well, anything really; be it the power supply, drivers or whatever software I throw at it, it just keeps getting better!


----------



## goodvibes

Batteries can have lag but are probably fine for this and certainly cheaper.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A good regulated supply tends to be best for audio but perhaps overkill here.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





spkrs01 said:


> I have been listening to the M2Tech 1.61 for the last 45 minutes.
> 
> It is definitely more technically proficient compared to the Luckit driver. Immediately noticeable is the dynamic contrast, better separation, darker backgrounds and a larger soundstage. Detail retrieval is pretty incredible with the highs seemingly much more extended. Mids are pushed a more forward comparatively, and bass seems tighter and faster.


 
  You ruined my day. I have been happy with the change after I installed the Luckit driver now you are forcing me to install the new M2Tech driver. I am compulsive about these things so I will have to try it and report back. Honestly, the Luckit driver was such as improvement I may need a bib to catch the drool if this new M2Tech driver is better.


----------



## spkrs01

Quote: 





chodi said:


> You ruined my day. I have been happy with the change after I installed the Luckit driver now you are forcing me to install the new M2Tech driver. I am compulsive about these things so I will have to try it and report back. Honestly, the Luckit driver was such as improvement I may need a bib to catch the drool if this new M2Tech driver is better.


 
   
  Chodi,
   
  I apologize. I have reverted back to the Luckit driver after listening to the M2Tech driver for most of last evening. On my system, ultimately, I found it too bright and fatiguing for lengthy listening sessions.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





spkrs01 said:


> Chodi,
> 
> I apologize. I have reverted back to the Luckit driver after listening to the M2Tech driver for most of last evening. On my system, ultimately, I found it too bright and fatiguing for lengthy listening sessions.


 
  Your too late....or I'm too quick. I changed it while I was reading your post. I hear exactly the same thing you did in this new driver. I am listening to it now. It is brighter and thinner sounding. Some would say it has more apparent detail but that is a function of elevated highs. It gives the impression of being more transparent but I think it is just brighter. I cannot understand how the same company can put out so two totally different sounding drivers. Is it possible that the software company is letting their oem tune the sound as they wish? Are Italians into bright sound? Many questions. I will go back to the Luckit driver when I regain my strength. I think Luckit is a clear winner. I can take off the bib.


----------



## Acix

Quote: 





chodi said:


> Your too late....or I'm too quick. I changed it while I was reading your post. I hear exactly the same thing you did in this new driver. I am listening to it now. It is brighter and thinner sounding. Some would say it has more apparent detail but that is a function of elevated highs. It gives the impression of being more transparent but I think it is just brighter. I cannot understand how the same company can put out so two totally different sounding drivers. Is it possible that the software company is letting their oem tune the sound as they wish? Are Italians into bright sound? Many questions. I will go back to the Luckit driver when I regain my strength. I think Luckit is a clear winner. I can take off the bib.


 
   
  The new M2Tech driver is more transparent in the upper mids as well extend more in the treble area, I guess you can call it bright sound. The Luckit is more sweet for long sessions...


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





chodi said:


> Your too late....or I'm too quick. I changed it while I was reading your post. I hear exactly the same thing you did in this new driver. I am listening to it now. It is brighter and thinner sounding. Some would say it has more apparent detail but that is a function of elevated highs. It gives the impression of being more transparent but I think it is just brighter. I cannot understand how the same company can put out so two totally different sounding drivers. Is it possible that the software company is letting their oem tune the sound as they wish? Are Italians into bright sound? Many questions. I will go back to the Luckit driver when I regain my strength. I think Luckit is a clear winner. I can take off the bib.


 

 Interesting, I've been going back and forth between two and almost positive 1.61 adds more weight but the difference is really subtle so it could be just my imagination.
  Too bad you can't do proper A/B and should rely on short lived audio memory.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> Interesting, I've been going back and forth between two and almost positive 1.61 adds more weight but the difference is really subtle so it could be just my imagination.
> Too bad you can't do proper A/B and should rely on short lived audio memory.


 
  I think there is also the issue of synergy with your equipment. In my case with my front end the Luckit driver is a very clear winner. The new driver from M2Tech is clearly brighter with less weight in the bass. I suppose if your equipment was a bit dark sounding the M2Tech driver might be just the thing. On my system with a Yulong D18 and Lafigaro tube amp and my T1 the Luckit driver is magic.


----------



## darkfrank

Can anyone modify the luckit driver so it will work on windows 8?
  Currently i can only use it in win7
Thanks


----------



## Loenn

darkfrank said:


> Can anyone modify the luckit driver so it will work on windows 8?
> Currently i can only use it in win7
> Thanks




The Luckit driver works on win 8. Just read post 288.

IMHO it's worth to install the Luckit driver, personally i like it clearly better than the new (and old) M2Tech driver.


----------



## Baten

Hey guys, how do you even install the luckit driver to work with an m2tech device? am I missing something?
  help would be appreciated (god I feel like a noob)


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





baten said:


> Hey guys, how do you even install the luckit driver to work with an m2tech device? am I missing something?
> help would be appreciated (god I feel like a noob)


 
  The detailed answer to your question is in this thread just read the thread.


----------



## Baten

Quote: 





chodi said:


> The detailed answer to your question is in this thread just read the thread.


 
   
  Hey, sorry about that. Found it. I thought I had read everything in this thread before, but looks like I skipped some.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Can anybody recommend a good PSU for alternative USB power solution http://www.streakwave.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=5VUSB


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> Can anybody recommend a good PSU for alternative USB power solution http://www.streakwave.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=5VUSB


 
  Belkin makes a simple cheap 4 port powered usb hub that uses a simple a/c adapter. I use it and it is better than taking the power from the computer usb port. There are even better solutions for linear power supplies in this thread but the Belkin thing took it far enough for me.


----------



## Jmstrmbn

I bought a Dlink Powered USB hub for the same reasons and it wound up using the USB bus unless it was unplugged from the computer and entered "charging" mode for phones and such.  Make sure to read the packaging.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





chodi said:


> Belkin makes a simple cheap 4 port powered usb hub that uses a simple a/c adapter. I use it and it is better than taking the power from the computer usb port. *There are even better solutions for linear power supplies in this thread* but the Belkin thing took it far enough for me.


 
  I must have missed that, can you please point them out?


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





jmstrmbn said:


> I bought a Dlink Powered USB hub for the same reasons and it wound up using the USB bus unless it was unplugged from the computer and entered "charging" mode for phones and such.  Make sure to read the packaging.


 
  Yes the Belkin thing actually supplies the power to the  hub so it bypasses the power supplied by the computer port. It is a very cheap solution but not as elegant as some suggested in this thread that resort to battery power. I have no doubt that battery power is the cleanest source but I have my limits on tweeks.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> I must have missed that, can you please point them out?


 
  Just read the posts by Audiofanboy he seems to be the resident expert on power supply tweeks for Hiface 2.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





chodi said:


> Just read the posts by Audiofanboy he seems to be the resident expert on power supply tweeks for Hiface 2.


 

 Okay, he used supply from the phone charger, anything I am missing?


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> Okay, he used supply from the phone charger, anything I am missing?


 
  Refer to post #300 (with pictures).


----------



## Audiofanboy

andrew_wot said:


> Okay, he used supply from the phone charger, anything I am missing?



And then from batteries in the next, much much better, iteration. Just go back a few pages and take a look; there are a number of both DIY and non-DIY alternatives for external power supplies


----------



## mr_macgee

Anyone know a fix for the video latency problem while using the Hiface Mac OS drivers? 
   
  I know it isn't a problem with Windows but I would rather not load windows onto my mac mini.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Jmstrmbn

You installed drivers for the Hiface on Mac??


----------



## mr_macgee

Quote: 





jmstrmbn said:


> You installed drivers for the Hiface on Mac??


 
  Yes, I'm using the Hiface with my Mac. Using driver* HiFace1048106*


----------



## Jmstrmbn

I see you are using Leopard on an older Mac.  This is probably why you require a driver.  I'm not certain how to fix the latency issue.  Does your Mac Mini have a faster/preferred USB?  It might work better with a little more speed.  Otherwise I'm not sure what you could do to fix the issue.


----------



## mr_macgee

Quote: 





jmstrmbn said:


> The Hiface is USB 2.0 compliant meaning you don't need to install drivers to run it on Mac, assuming you have a recent version of OSX.  What are you running ML, L, SL?


 
  Thanks for your questions, You are correct but I still need to figure out a fix for the latency problems between sound and video with the Hiface connected to a Mac using mac software.
   
  I was hoping someone can offer advice on a fix. Anyone familiar with this issue? Thanks


----------



## oldson

just a quick foobar/hiface2 setting query.
  on the drop menu in preferences/ output, everything is listed twice with the words either "push" or "event" in brackets.
  either seems to work ok, but what is the difference and which should i be using?
  cheers


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





oldson said:


> just a quick foobar/hiface2 setting query.
> on the drop menu in preferences/ output, everything is listed twice with the words either "push" or "event" in brackets.
> either seems to work ok, but what is the difference and which should i be using?
> cheers


 
  The way I understand it push is sort of a workaround if event doesn't work for you. Event should be your first choice. I don't understand how you have 2 of everything listed that isn't normal but probably makes no real difference. Sounds like you installed the drivers twice? The drivers are stored in your Windows System 32 folder and if you know what you are doing you can go look to see if you have actually installed duplicates.


----------



## mr_macgee

Quote: 





jmstrmbn said:


> I see you are using Leopard on an older Mac.  This is probably why you require a driver.  I'm not certain how to fix the latency issue.  Does your Mac Mini have a faster/preferred USB?  It might work better with a little more speed.  Otherwise I'm not sure what you could do to fix the issue.


 
  Hi Jmstrmbn,
   
  Thanks and good questions. It is the older 1.8 core 2 duo with a SSD hardrive and I have 10.7 loaded on the Mac Mini. Yes slower computer could always be a culprit but my new MacBook Pro experiences the same thing so I'm having to rule out the age issue.
   
  I have this issue with the Hiface 1, don;t know about the hiface 2. So the question is will I have the same video latency problem with a Hiface 2? I would be happy to swap out my hiface for the newer one.
   
  Based on a other thread posting_ "The Hiface 2 is suppose to be "usb 2.0" compliant and uses XMOS chip for usb connection and does not require driver on Mac".  _


----------



## Jmstrmbn

I understand now, I thought you had the Hiface 2.  As far as I know the original hiface required a driver on Macs as well as PCs.  Replacing it with a Hiface 2 should get you running without latency.  I remember holding off on the original Hiface for that exact problem.


----------



## mr_macgee

Quote: 





jmstrmbn said:


> I understand now, I thought you had the Hiface 2.  As far as I know the original hiface required a driver on Macs as well as PCs.  Replacing it with a Hiface 2 should get you running without latency.  I remember holding off on the original Hiface for that exact problem.


 
  Thanks for the info.
   
  I now have an announcement: I have a Hiface 1 for sale.


----------



## oldson

Quote: 





chodi said:


> The way I understand it push is sort of a workaround if event doesn't work for you. Event should be your first choice. I don't understand how you have 2 of everything listed that isn't normal but probably makes no real difference. Sounds like you installed the drivers twice? The drivers are stored in your Windows System 32 folder and if you know what you are doing you can go look to see if you have actually installed duplicates.


 
  ok thanks


----------



## jonathanvaljean

EDITED:  I figured out my install problem.


----------



## Vampa

Hi,
   
  Just to leave my input here. I have the Mac Mini, Audirvana, hiface 2, rega dac combo. Have been looking for improvements in the sq and thus decided to try the battery supply for the hiface 2, as the cost is negigible:
   
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sanyo-165201425-Eneloop-Battery-Booster/dp/B00197ZHRO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367262790&sr=8-1&keywords=eneloop+booster
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Quality-50cm-USB2-0-Dual-power-Y-extension-cable-for-broadband-dongle-stick-/140834737300?pt=UK_Computing_Mobile_Broadband_Devices&hash=item20ca678c94
   
  Just 14 £. Have just tried this evening and happy with what I am listening to. No blind tests, etc. so far but have listened to several songs I am used to and my impressions are more control and definition.
   
  For its cost, certainly worth it.


----------



## oldson

losing it with my hiface2.
  driver is so unreliable.
  have installed latest version 1.6.1 
   
  although when looking at driver properties it still states 1.6.0  ????
   
  really considering alternative like jkspdif.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





oldson said:


> losing it with my hiface2.
> driver is so unreliable.
> have installed latest version 1.6.1
> 
> ...


 

 What problem do you have?
  Try modded for hiface 1.63 http://www.head-fi.org/t/601203/m2tech-hiface-2/255#post_9101611, that would be the latest driver available.


----------



## oldson

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> What problem do you have?
> Try modded for hiface 1.63 http://www.head-fi.org/t/601203/m2tech-hiface-2/255#post_9101611, that would be the latest driver available.


 
  hi
  thanks for the reply, but it did not go well for me.
  followed the instructions, but driver did not install properly.
   
  tried again without the updated ini inf files and device was not recognised.
  i am sure it is something i am doing  wrong


----------



## oldson

Quote: 





oldson said:


> hi
> thanks for the reply, but it did not go well for me.
> followed the instructions, but driver did not install properly.
> 
> ...


 
  scrap that.
  tried again and it works! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  time will tell if it cures the issues i've had though.
  cheers


----------



## oldson

well it did not take long, this driver is not good either, i guess


----------



## oldson

my problems appear to be worse with the luckit driver.
  before when using m2tech's driver, a simple un-plug- replug of the device would get it working again. not so now, had to re-boot pc.
  problem is more frequent now too.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





oldson said:


> my problems appear to be worse with the luckit driver.
> before when using m2tech's driver, a simple un-plug- replug of the device would get it working again. not so now, had to re-boot pc.
> problem is more frequent now too.


 
  Before you panic, note if the dropout is occurring when music is playing or when you boot and first try to use the system through your Hiface2. I also have an occasional time when I start my computer from a cold boot and it does not recognize the Hiface2 until I unplug and reinsert it. That is a Windows problem not really a Hiface problem. If you are getting dropouts after the computer has already recognized the Hiface2 and during a session when you were using it but it stopped working, then that is a different animal. You have already said that you have duplicate drivers and sometimes a simple uninstall will not get those duplicates out. That is a Windows issue. Some times, in the most extreme cases, the only solution is a clean install of Windows and start over. It would be easier to go into the Windows system 32/ Drivers folder and delete the drivers, but you better know what you are doing before you try that. You would also need to make manual changes to your registry, not for the faint of heart.
   
  A clean install of Windows will fix it for sure unless you are dealing with hardware failure which is not likely.


----------



## oldson

Quote: 





chodi said:


> Before you panic, note if the dropout is occurring when music is playing or when you boot and first try to use the system through your Hiface2. I also have an occasional time when I start my computer from a cold boot and it does not recognize the Hiface2 until I unplug and reinsert it. That is a Windows problem not really a Hiface problem. If you are getting dropouts after the computer has already recognized the Hiface2 and during a session when you were using it but it stopped working, then that is a different animal. You have already said that you have duplicate drivers and sometimes a simple uninstall will not get those duplicates out. That is a Windows issue. Some times, in the most extreme cases, the only solution is a clean install of Windows and start over. It would be easier to go into the Windows system 32/ Drivers folder and delete the drivers, but you better know what you are doing before you try that. You would also need to make manual changes to your registry, not for the faint of heart.
> 
> A clean install of Windows will fix it for sure unless you are dealing with hardware failure which is not likely.


 
  sometimes it is not recognised on boot up, sometimes it boots up ok and then drops off without being used and sometimes it drops mid-session.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





oldson said:


> sometimes it is not recognised on boot up, sometimes it boots up ok and then drops off without being used and sometimes it drops mid-session.


 

 You need to clean out the old drivers properly. Install the one you had originally than run uninstall.exe from its installation folder. (Program Files/M2Tech or LuckIt)
  Do this for each driver version you installed, disconnect HiFace, reboot the computer and do the clean installation with one of the latest drivers (1.61 or 1.63).
  1) In USB Audio Control Panel make sure to switch Streaming Mode from Power Save to Always On (the one that gets installed with driver)
  2) In Windows Control Panel Sound disable All Enhancements for HiFace and make sure that both check boxes under Advanced/Exclusive Mode are checked
  3) In Windows Device manager go through each USB Root Hub and uncheck Allow computer to turn off this device to save power check box under Power tab, reboot.
  4) Playback software, I am using Foobar2000 with ASIO, I am sure there are proponents and opponents of this as well as WASAPI and KS. I personally prefer KS and ASIO over WASAPI.
   
  My HiFace is recognized on reboot on one computer and not on the other, I usually just replug it, not a biggie for me.


----------



## oldson

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> You need to clean out the old drivers properly. Install the one you had originally than run uninstall.exe from its installation folder. (Program Files/M2Tech or LuckIt)
> Do this for each driver version you installed, disconnect HiFace, reboot the computer and do the clean installation with one of the latest drivers (1.61 or 1.63).
> 1) In USB Audio Control Panel make sure to switch Streaming Mode from Power Save to Always On (the one that gets installed with driver)
> 2) In Windows Control Panel Sound disable All Enhancements for HiFace and make sure that both check boxes under Advanced/Exclusive Mode are checked
> ...


 
  wow thanks for the extensive reply.
  unfortunately i no longer have the older versions of previously installed drivers. but whenever i uninstall anything i always run tune-up to clear out anything left behind.
  item 1) this was set to "power save", corrected!
  item 2) although no enhancement check boxes were ticked, the "disable enhancements was NOT ticked either, it is now.
  item 3) two or three of the many usb root hubs in the list were indeed set to power save, corrected.
  item 4) i use foobar and wasapi. as there were quite a few changes made above, i will leave this "as is" for now and see how i get on.
  again , many thanks for your help, there is no way i would have known about all these settings.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  watch this space, who knows you may have fixed the issues i was having with my usb mouse too!


----------



## oldson

been running now for 1.5 hours this evening , no bother
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  mouse is still playing up though, but i can live with that


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





oldson said:


> been running now for 1.5 hours this evening , no bother
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  About a year ago I had problems with a usb mouse that I had for years and kept blaming it on Windows or my then new motherboard. In the end it was a defective mouse. After I changed the mouse problems were gone. At the time I felt rather silly for not blaming it on the mouse itself.


----------



## leeperry

1.67 xmos drivers reporting, knock yourselves out: http://meridian-audio.com/en/collections/products/explorer-1000/4/support/ ^^


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> 1.67 xmos drivers reporting, knock yourselves out: http://meridian-audio.com/en/collections/products/explorer-1000/4/support/ ^^


 
   

 Cool, thanks a bunch. Interesting, buffer settings gone. Any idea where to look for release notes.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> Cool, thanks a bunch. Interesting, buffer settings gone. Any idea where to look for release notes.


 

 What's your impressions so far, I could take less 10 minutes with it, unbearably bright to my taste. Reverted back to OEM 1.61.
   
  EDIT: Actually, 1.63 still sounds the best out of the bunch, with the least splashy treble.
  So on brightness and treble energy I would rate them as
  1.67 > 1.61 > 1.63 (higher ranking means brighter)
   
  1.63 to my ears sounds the most "analogue", would like to hear what others think.


----------



## oldson

my recent "drop out" issues appear to have gone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  the only thing now, is slooooooow start up of pc.
  it seems to take an age before i get the sound and network icon up in bottom right side of taskbar.
  though subsequent restarts are much quicker.


----------



## Acix

1.63 working well in Win 8?


----------



## Thunder240

Hey HiFaceTwo owners, have any of you had a chance to compare your converter to either the NuForce U192S ($99) or the Peachtree X1 ($199)? If so, could you please describe any sonic, reliability, ergonomic, or other noteworthy differences?
   
  I'm in the market for an asynchronous USB to SPDIF converter, and my budget is 200. The three I'm considering are the U192S, the X1, and the HiFaceTwo. (I was also considering the VLink 192, but several of you noted that the HighFaceTwo sounds noticably better.)
   
  I plan to use the converter with a Mac Mini, and mobility offers no advantage for me, so the small form factor of the HighFaceTwo won't factor into my decision. Actually, a few of you have noted that it puts some stress on the USB port, so for that reason I may prefer one of the other two contenders (although the flip side is that they each require a USB cable, which will introduce one more variable into my signal path). From a feature standpoint, I like the fact that the U192S displays sample rate.
   
  But all that will take a back seat to sonic differences, if there are any. So that said, can anyone offer up a comparison based on listening experience?
   
  Many thanks!
  --------
  Edit: Since I've read that a converter's performance is depends in part on the DAC that is being used, I should add that I'll be using the converter to send audio to a Denon 3808ci receiver. I use the receiver as a pre-pro with an external amp both for hi-res PCM music stereo playback and also to play movie audio tracks (e.g. 5.1 DD/DTS) bitstreams). Also, sometimes I use the headphone out when I'm in the mood for a head-fi experience, or when it's late at night and I don't want to risk waking up the neighbors!


----------



## satbaba

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> 1) Download driver from here http://www.luckit.biz/downloads/Luckit%20WaveIO%20Drivers%20(v1.63.0).rar
> 2) Uninstall existing driver
> 3) Unrar downloaded driver and replace inf and ini files with attachment
> 4) Unplug HiFace2
> ...


 
  v1.67 is now released


----------



## Audiofanboy

Great news, thanks!
   
  Works perfectly fine on Win 8 x64 (with manually modified inf files, like last time, and installed with temporarily disabled driver signature -won't install on W8 otherwise).
   
  It's hard to say whether or not there's an improvement, as I didn't -and won't- ABX these drivers; but the sound seems at least as good as with 1.63 drivers and maybe just a little more relaxed or analog-sounding. Bass and soundstage depth may be a bit better too. The brain gets used to improvements so quickly, it's hard to make sure...
   
  I'll try the drivers on Win 7 x64 later today too.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





satbaba said:


> v1.67 is now released


 

 I'd like to hear what other people think of this version, I personally found it too edgy and bright, see my post above. In my setup I greatly preferred 1.63.


----------



## satbaba

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> I'd like to hear what other people think of this version, I personally found it too edgy and bright, see my post above. In my setup I greatly preferred 1.63.


 
  I have never found a bright  with jplay mini  player , Senn hd800 , Bottlehead crack OTL tube amp , Hegel HD20 dac


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





satbaba said:


> I have never found a bright  with jplay mini  player , Senn hd800 , Bottlehead crack OTL tube amp , Hegel HD20 dac


 

 How would you describe the difference between 1.67 and 1.63, if any?


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> 1.67 xmos drivers reporting, knock yourselves out: http://meridian-audio.com/en/collections/products/explorer-1000/4/support/ ^^


 

 Luckit posted their packaging on 1.67, with control panel and spy tool. http://www.luckit.biz/downloads/Luckit%20WaveIO%20Drivers%20(v1.67.0).rar
  Call me crazy but they do not exhibit the shrillness of meridian-audio package.
  In fact they seem like an improvement over 1.63, the sound is less congested with more details and air but still relaxed, analogue like.
   
  They also work with iFi iLink.


----------



## Gidu

oldson said:


> my recent "drop out" issues appear to have gone
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi !
V1.67 Luckit drivers works fine !
Run Ccleaner (v 4.03), clean registry and after that, everything is fine, without any issue !
Gidu


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> Luckit posted their packaging on 1.67, with control panel and spy tool. http://www.luckit.biz/downloads/Luckit%20WaveIO%20Drivers%20(v1.67.0).rar
> Call me crazy but they do not exhibit the shrillness of meridian-audio package.
> In fact they seem like an improvement over 1.63, the sound is less congested with more details and air but still relaxed, analogue like.
> 
> They also work with iFi iLink.


 
  I went to download this today and their site appears to be down. I am not really excited about changing from 1.63 because it is so good, but I just can't leave well enough alone. Have to see for myself. I guess they will fix their site I'll check back. Interested in anyone's experience who has installed this new version.


----------



## spkrs01

I am on Win 7 64bit and Luckit 1.63....cannot get 1.67 to recognize the HI Face2? 
   
  Anyone help please?
   
  Many thanks......................
   
   
  EDIT:
  Manged to get 1.67 installed. I had forgotten to copy and paste the HiFace2-1.63_inf.zip 4k .zip file


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





spkrs01 said:


> I am on Win 7 64bit and Luckit 1.63....cannot get 1.67 to recognize the HI Face2?
> 
> Anyone help please?
> 
> ...


 

 Technically you want to modify infs included with 1.67 driver not reuse 1.63.
  Just copy paste Models Sections from corresponding HiFace driver files into new ones.
   
   
*USBLuckit.inf*
  Quote: 





> ;******************************************************************************
> ; Models sections
> ;------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [_Models]
> ...


 
   
*USBLuckitks.inf*
   
  Quote: 





> ;******************************************************************************
> ; Models sections
> ;------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [_Models]
> ...


 
   
* custom.ini* (this one is optional, only affects ASIO driver display name)
  Quote: 





> [ASIO]
> AsioDriverGUID={1689FA61-6229-4bcc-888A-7B20CC2090A4}
> AsioDisplayName="*MUSBAudio ASIO Driver*"


 
   
  BTW, after using ASIO for a while I switched back to KS, and it sounds better to my ears and this is what JKenny and M2Tech recommends. YMMV, use whatever output suits you.


----------



## Faithless

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> > BTW, after using ASIO for a while I switched back to KS, and it sounds better to my ears and this is what JKenny and M2Tech recommends. YMMV, use whatever output suits you.


 
   
  Are you sure about?
  Who more use KS besides ASIO?
   
  Tks...


----------



## bogi

I used WASAPI event syle some time and only then I found that KS and ASIO  works too ... I found KS better sounding than WASAPI, but I didn't find difference between KS and ASIO. Currently I am using KS with no issues.


----------



## Faithless

I'm testing the options. KS seems to be a little better than Asio. But i need more audition time.


----------



## Chodi

Any opinions on 1.67 vs 1.63 for those who have tried it? I am happy with 1.63 but still interested in opinions from those who have tried the change.


----------



## Gicu Gicu

Version 1.7 is out, did anyone tried it?  > http://www.m2tech.biz/hiface2.html


----------



## demon321

The version of softaware driver has the effect to sound?
  I have never notice about this. I just always update the new driver and firmware.


----------



## bogi

Yes, it can have impact, see previous discussion in this thread.
  It depends on your equipment and also on your ability to hear small differences.


----------



## spkrs01

The 1.70 driver is probably the best driver I have heard for the HiFace 2.............much more detail and airier sounding with better dynamics. Soundstage size has increase especially the portrayal of depth!
   
  And now with JRiver's MC19 and Fidelizer, it is by far the best sonics I have heard from my desktop system


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





spkrs01 said:


> The 1.70 driver is probably the best driver I have heard for the HiFace 2.............much more detail and airier sounding with better dynamics. Soundstage size has increase especially the portrayal of depth!
> 
> And now with JRiver's MC19 and Fidelizer, it is by far the best sonics I have heard from my desktop system


 
   
  Took me a little to figure out while why despite all my cleaning efforts TUSBAudio control panel is still showing driver version as 1.67, until I looked at the versions of included *.dlls, all of them are 1.67 indeed, size also matches the ones from Luckit 1.67 release. Not sure why M2tech packaged them as 1.7.0 in inf file.


----------



## spkrs01

This is interesting, I just looked at the control panel and indeed it is still showing 1.67
   
  I went back and a forth a few times between the luckit 1.67 and the M2Tech 1.70 and for me hear noticeable difference. This has me wondering whether a small change here and there really have that much of an impact sonically. 
   
  Firmware changes on portable players entails quite drastic changes to the overall sonic presentation.


----------



## Chodi

I hadn't changed since the Luckit 1.63 since it sounded really good. Decided to give the M2Tech 1.7 a try today and it is different. I am not ready to say wow it's better but it is different. I immediately noticed it gives a more spacious and airy sound. The difference I hear at this point is subtle over the Luckit 1.63 so I wouldn't be ready yet to say it is a must change, but so far it sounds good. layering seems to be a bit better in the sound stage. Sound is more neutral which I like. I always felt the Luckit driver while great leaned a bit to the darker side of neutral.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





spkrs01 said:


> This is interesting, I just looked at the control panel and indeed it is still showing 1.67
> 
> I went back and a forth a few times between the luckit 1.67 and the M2Tech 1.70 and for me hear noticeable difference. This has me wondering whether a small change here and there really have that much of an impact sonically.
> 
> Firmware changes on portable players entails quite drastic changes to the overall sonic presentation.


 

 Not sure how, the binaries are the same, haven't spent much time comparing both myself though.
   
  On iLink they sound pretty much the same. But there is really no point in using modded Luckit driver if there is the same OEM version.


----------



## Chodi

I've now spent several hours listening to this new 1.7 driver and I feel it is almost if not identical to the 1.63 Luckit driver. If there is a difference it is so subtle that it is not worth mentioning. In the end it is not really the job of a usb interface to impart any sound of it's own and I feel the 1.7 or the 1.63 accomplish that.


----------



## kanna

As I know HiFace2 support only 2channel right?
 In case that I need to play [concert]DVD with Jriver.
 How I mix down DSP5.1 to 2ch?


----------



## bogi

I am using "convert 5.1 to stereo" DSP plugin in Foobar2000. I am very satisfied with listening of many 5.1 DTS recordings on my headphones.
  
 I am sure JRiver has also a possibility to convert multichannel to stereo, just do Google search for it ...


----------



## oldson

Andrew_WOT
 i notice you are selling your ifi gear.
 does this mean you rate it behind the hiface2?
 just curious


----------



## Andrew_WOT

oldson said:


> Andrew_WOT
> i notice you are selling your ifi gear.
> does this mean you rate it behind the hiface2?
> just curious


 
 Nope, just selling . . . like everything, hurry up it won't last. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 On a serious note, iLink is better, much better, I sold my HiFace2 right after I got iLink.


----------



## oldson

andrew_wot said:


> Nope, just selling . . . like everything, hurry up it won't last.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 i have considered the ifi gear, but have decided to go for one of these
http://luckit.biz/new/?tcp_product=waveio
 this will hopefully delay my urge to buy a new dac.
 i fancy the yulong da8 but am trying to resist until after xmas.


----------



## Girls Generation

Just received the Hiface Two so now I must compare it to the Audiophilleo 1  Will be back with findings.


----------



## mika91

Hi,
  
 I've installed the 1.7 drivers last week-end!
 Now, I have to disconnect/reconnect the hiface almost every day if I want i to be seen in device manager after reboot/sleep.
 With old luckit driver, it was better (around one unplug/plug each 14 days)
 Never had these issues with Hiface1, and even if I'm very pleased with audio performance, it's quite a mess to move my big audio/video furniture every night to unplug it!
 Mayeb switch back to v1


----------



## Chodi

mika91 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've installed the 1.7 drivers last week-end!
> Now, I have to disconnect/reconnect the hiface almost every day if I want i to be seen in device manager after reboot/sleep.
> ...


 
  
 Unfortunately this is a common problem with the Hiface 2. I just live with the problem cause it sounds so good for the price.


----------



## oldson

i used to get this problem all the time.
 i recently bought a new monitor with built in usb hub.
 since i have been using this hub, i have had no problems at all.


----------



## Chodi

oldson said:


> i used to get this problem all the time.
> i recently bought a new monitor with built in usb hub.
> since i have been using this hub, i have had no problems at all.


 
  
 Actually, I also have mine on a powered usb hub and it still has the problem. Consider yourself lucky if you found a solution. Still, it's a small problem. I usually unplug the Hiface 2 when I'm not using it and plug it into the hub when I want to use it which avoids the problem.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

chodi said:


> oldson said:
> 
> 
> > i used to get this problem all the time.
> ...


 
 I had the same problem with iFi iLink, so I guess it's XMOS receiver in general. Funny that this never happened on my docked office Lenovo laptop. So I guess it just happens on some hardware, not a biggie, just replug and go.


----------



## Girls Generation

Hasn't happened to me yet.


----------



## Chodi

andrew_wot said:


> I had the same problem with iFi iLink, so I guess it's XMOS receiver in general. Funny that this never happened on my docked office Lenovo laptop. So I guess it just happens on some hardware, not a biggie, just replug and go.


 
  
 Has to do with the bios code of your device. Each pc has a unique bios provided by the manufacturer. Within that code are a series of recognition codes. I guess my motherboard manufacturer forgot that one. So, it's the luck of the draw if your motherboard sees the Xmos device on boot. Not really the fault of the Xmos provider.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

chodi said:


> andrew_wot said:
> 
> 
> > I had the same problem with iFi iLink, so I guess it's XMOS receiver in general. Funny that this never happened on my docked office Lenovo laptop. So I guess it just happens on some hardware, not a biggie, just replug and go.
> ...


 
 You might be right as this happens on hard reboots only.


----------



## jonathanvaljean

andrew_wot said:


> I had the same problem with iFi iLink, so I guess it's XMOS receiver in general. Funny that this never happened on my docked office Lenovo laptop. So I guess it just happens on some hardware, not a biggie, just replug and go.


 
  
 Yeah, same here... "Just replug and go."


----------



## mika91

chodi said:


> Has to do with the bios code of your device. Each pc has a unique bios provided by the manufacturer. Within that code are a series of recognition codes. I guess my motherboard manufacturer forgot that one. So, it's the luck of the draw if your motherboard sees the Xmos device on boot. Not really the fault of the Xmos provider.


 
  
 Are you using AMD or Intel motherboards?
 Personnaly it's a gigbyte for AMD APU.


----------



## mika91

chodi said:


> Actually, I also have mine on a powered usb hub and it still has the problem. Consider yourself lucky if you found a solution. Still, it's a small problem. I usually unplug the Hiface 2 when I'm not using it and plug it into the hub when I want to use it which avoids the problem.


 
  
 Could you please test if unpowered/powered the usb hub makes the hiface work again?
 thanks


----------



## Chodi

mika91 said:


> Are you using AMD or Intel motherboards?
> Personnaly it's a gigbyte for AMD APU.


 
 I have a Gigabyte motherboard Intel Z77 version 
  


mika91 said:


> Could you please test if unpowered/powered the usb hub makes the hiface work again?
> thanks


 
 Anything that causes the device to be disconnected and reconnect while in Windows gets it working immediately. The problem was there before I even used a powered hub. I would be hard pressed to say the powered hub made any sonic difference. I used the hub to get the strain off the usb port and put the Hiface 2 where I can easily reach it to reset. I took my own advice and updated my bios yesterday and I haven't yet had any boot problems with the Hiface. Maybe that got it. I will report back after several days of use.


----------



## Packgrog

Anyone know how one of these compares to the iBasso D7 when used purely as a USB to SPDIF transport for an external DAC? I'm using a D7 to feed my Benchmark DAC1 to surprisingly pleasant result, but I'm wondering if the HiFace 2 would provide better results or not.


----------



## Chodi

I just noticed that Luckit is at it again. They have posted a new driver version 2.15. Wonder if anyone has tried this new driver with their Hiface 2?


----------



## bogi

I installed it, but I found no sonic difference.
 If you are interested for adapted INF ani INI files:
 http://ryushare.com/0grmwhh2yzli/Luckit_HiFace2_INF_INI(v2.15.0).zip


----------



## Chodi

bogi said:


> I installed it, but I found no sonic difference.
> If you are interested for adapted INF ani INI files:
> http://ryushare.com/0grmwhh2yzli/Luckit_HiFace2_INF_INI(v2.15.0).zip


 
 Thanks very much for the quick reply. I love this forum the members are always helpful. I'm compulsive so I will also try this and report back if  I can see any difference. It may be that the Luckit folks have a newer version of the Xmos chip in their product. Anyway, I will also give it a try with my Hiface 2


----------



## Chodi

I have installed this new Luckit driver and have been listening for several hours. I have to agree that there is little if any difference between this and the latest driver provided by M2tech. I get the impression that there is a slight improvement in instrument separation and it might be a touch faster with transients but that is the only difference I can see. I am going to leave the Luckit driver in as it certainly is not a step back.


----------



## Acix

I hope the stability will be better with the newer one, thanks for the drive bogi!


----------



## bogi

Which type of stability concerns do you mean?


----------



## Acix

bogi said:


> Which type of stability concerns do you mean?


 
  
 Almost every single day I need disconnect and reconnect the USB cable some times 2-3 times a day, mostly happens in a critical moments when I'm working on Cubase (super annoying). A better latency will also be a plus with those drivers.


----------



## bogi

I have no latency related issues. when I run DPC Latency Checker, I am typically at the level 120us. But I don't use WiFi.
  
 I use a special Y type USB cable with a separate cable branch leading to 5V power supply. It brings better dynamics and level of detail.


----------



## WindofSirius

bogi said:


> I installed it, but I found no sonic difference.
> If you are interested for adapted INF ani INI files:
> http://ryushare.com/0grmwhh2yzli/Luckit_HiFace2_INF_INI(v2.15.0).zip


 
  
 Thank you very much I asked a question of a technical support driver version 2.15 (xmos universal driver). They ignored ....
  
  
 TUSBAudio - Thesycon USB Audio 2.0 Class Driver for Windows
 Revision History

 -----------------------------------------------------
 V2.15.0 (October 21, 2013)
 -----------------------------------------------------
 * Fix: KS mute control only (no volume control) did not work.
 * Chg: re-enabled the Generic child PDO feature in Lite version
 * Chg: supported sample rate list in DSD mode = supported list in PCM mode
 * New: DSD sample rate 11.2 MHz is supported if device supports 352800 Hz
 * Chg: Driver package .sys files are not signed any longer.
 * Chg: DriverPackageBuilder now requires code signing certificate.
 Pre-signed .sys files are not supported any longer as these
 do not work under Windows 8.

 -----------------------------------------------------
 V2.14.0 (September 24, 2013)
 -----------------------------------------------------
 * New: Firmware update wizard GUI improved
 * New: setup.ini supports LaunchAfterInst feature
 * Chg: Final step of DFU procedure modified:
 procedure waits until the new firmware comes up but ignores error

 -----------------------------------------------------
 V2.13.0 (September 02, 2013)
 -----------------------------------------------------
 * Fix: send correct DSD idle pattern when streaming starts
 * New: ASIO DSD mode supported, tested with Foobar
 * New: Lite version is restricted to XMOS VID

 -----------------------------------------------------
 V2.12.0 (August 23, 2013)
 -----------------------------------------------------
 * New: ASIO DSD mode supported (beta, not yet fully tested)

 -----------------------------------------------------
 V2.11.0 (August 20, 2013)
 -----------------------------------------------------
 * Internal engineering release.
 * New: DSD support (beta)
 * New: Driver sets friendly name shown in device manager
 to product string reported by the device
 if ShowFriendlyDeviceName features is enabled via .inf
 * Fix: Memory leaks in NonPaged pool (minor issue)

 -----------------------------------------------------
 V2.10.0 (June 14, 2013)
 -----------------------------------------------------
 * Chg: Final step of DFU procedure modified:
 Now procedure does not wait until the new firmware comes up.
 * Fix: Workaround in driver installer for Vista specific problem:
 required MS root cert will not be installed automatically.
 * New: API DLL registration added,
 enables an application to locate the DLL.
 * New: Driver .inf setting EnableAsioKsSharing added,
 enable/disable ASIO+WDM playback mix
 * Fix: custom.ini cannot be loaded if path contains
 UNICODE characters

 -----------------------------------------------------
 V2.0.0 (April 26, 2013)
 -----------------------------------------------------
 * New: Lite driver variant introduced
 * New: new USB buffer setting: UsbStreamingMode_Reliable = 12 ms
 default setting in Lite driver
 * Chg: TUsbAudioDeviceProperties contains a valid serialNumberString
 only if the device reports a USB serial number.
 * New: new API function TUSBAUDIO_GetDeviceInstanceIdString
 * Chg: merged in current library code

 -----------------------------------------------------
 V1.67.0 (April 4, 2013)
 -----------------------------------------------------
 * Fix: Invalid feedback values can cause BSOD.
 Driver now ignores invalid values.
 Error statistics added.
 * Fix: Problem with optional volume characteristics correction
 and audio class requests through API.
 * Fix: incorrect AddAndClipInt32bSamples in integer plugin


----------



## Acix

bogi said:


> I have no latency related issues. when I run DPC Latency Checker, I am typically at the level 120us. But I don't use WiFi.
> 
> I use a special Y type USB cable with a separate cable branch leading to 5V power supply. It brings better dynamics and level of detail.


 
  
  
 I meant a better latency by programming the FPGA chip, if there is one, or is the Xmos in charge of the latency issues. A better latency can effect the sound in a good way as well. BTW, my DPC latency checker shows 25-35us.
  
 I cant get under 256 samples @ 9.796 ms on Cubase 7.6, and this is a huge disappointment for me.
  

  
  
 There is also this warning that supposed not to pop up,


----------



## Claude

Has anone been able to use the Hiface Two with Windows 8.1 64bit?
  
 I got one today, and tried it on both my new PC (Asus H87M-Pro mainboard) and my laptop (Lenovo Thinkpad L530). I followed the instructions in the manual. I tried both currently available drivers (1.61 and 1.70), various USB connections (USB 2 and 3), but on both PCs there is no way to get reliable playback. Testing 16/44 in the audio properties works, but with 24/96 there is stuttering sound and then the sound becomes unavailable.
  
 I also tried all the possible output methods in Foobar (DS, KS, WASAPI, ASIO). 24/96 doesn't work at all, and with 16/44 the sound hangs when skipping tracks.
  
 To exclude a hardware defect on the Hiface, I got my 9 year old Thinkpad R50 running Windows XP 32bit from the basement, installed the driver, and everything worked as it should.
  
 Could Windows 8.1 be the problem? I googled but haven't found anyone with experience on this combination.


----------



## bogi

Acix, some of my latest experiences I did yesterday evening and today. I am using i5 based Fujitsu Lifebook E780 with Win7 64 bit, Foobar2000 v1.2.9 and the latest v2.1.15 LucIt/WaveIO drivers.
  
 When I set Standard latency as on your picture, I get your message on 128 samples, so I can safely have 256 selected.
 On Low latency USB Streaming Mode I got the message on 64 samples setting. On 128 and more so such message appears.
 On the Minimum latency mode and 64 samples, no message appeared.
  
 The sound quality in terms of fine detail is best on the minimum latency setting. I got ocassional clicks with this setting. I found that setting bigger ASIO buffer in the UAC Driver Control Panel helps to lower occurence of clicks, so I set that buffer to maximum. But ocassionally some clicks still appeared. Then I remembered I have set hiFace as default output sound device (I watched som youtube videos). Interesting is, that after setting my internal soundcard as default output device the ocassional clicks disappeared. I heard clicks while copying some album from internal disk to my USB disk, but otherwise now I am satisfied with the Minimal latency setting.
  
 I hear also some difference between ASIO, KS and WASAPI (event mode). The most detail level is provided by KS, it sound a little bit brighter with more air and more concrete colors of sounds. I use it preferably. Interesting is, that ASIO provides me more bass impact. WASAPI is something inbetween. I tested this with more songs to be sure with this observation.
  
 I have no issues with different bitrates up to 96k. My CD player Harman Kardon HD 970 I use as DAC (it has S/PDIF inputs) allows max. 96k through coax input, so I cannot test 192k.
  
 As I don't have quite the same results as you, the difference can be caused by specifics of the used player HW (computer) and SW. Or are there different hiFace Two units? Is anything like firmware upgrade available? Can I find my firmware info anywhere?


----------



## Acix

bogi said:


> Acix, some of my latest experiences I did yesterday evening and today. I am using i5 based Fujitsu Lifebook E780 with Win7 64 bit, Foobar2000 v1.2.9 and the latest v2.1.15 LucIt/WaveIO drivers.
> 
> When I set Standard latency as on your picture, I get your message on 128 samples, so I can safely have 256 selected.
> On Low latency USB Streaming Mode I got the message on 64 samples setting. On 128 and more so such message appears.
> ...


 
  
  
 The LucIt/WaveIO drivers should work as a default output device, and with the help of the ASIO you should be able to switch between the sound softwares on your computer with out any problems, this is why ASIO is made for (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Stream_Input/Output). But obviously something wrong with those drivers. I'll try the new driver version soon.


----------



## Claude

Can someone explain how the Thesycon driver can be installed for the Hiface Two in Windows 8.1 64bit if the setup routine fails to recognize the device?
  
 Given that the Hiface Two 1.70 and 1.67 drivers don't work well on my Windows 8.1 PCs (see my previous post), the m2Tech support sent me their not yet official 2.20 driver (they asked me not to share the file though), which is based on the Thesycon 2.16 driver.
  
 However, the driver cannot be installed on my computers. Not with the setup routine (it fails to detect the Hiface2, although it is visible in the device manager), and also not "manually" through the device manager. I get a "driver could not be installed (Code 10)" error message. Does the driver signature verification need to be disabled?
  
 M2Tech apparently hasn't tested the driver on all the Windows platforms, so it's rather difficult to solve the problem.
  
 Thank you


----------



## Chodi

Just for the record, I am using the Hiface 2 with the latest WaveIO driver as my default device on my Windows 7x64 system and it works perfectly. I have it set for low latency (not minimum). I have to set it as default since I use it as my main source. I listen to movies and tv shows through my system using PowerDVD 14 with headphones and it works without issue routing through the Windows system default device (Hiface 2). I would guess your issues are specific to Windows 8. I have read somewhere that someone suggested not setting the Hiface 2 as default but in my case I am using it for all output so it works just fine for me in ASIO. I would contact M2Tech support about your Windows 8 issues. Just as a tip; I have also read that Hiface 2 does not like usb 3 ports. You might want to make certain that you have yours plugged into a usb 2 port. I also experienced problems when I upgraded my motherboard recently and first tried the Hiface 2 on a usb 3 port. I switched to one of the usb 2 ports and all the problems disappeared.


----------



## Claude

Thank you Chodi,
  
 I also think the issues are with Windows 8 (or maybe just Windows 8.1), because they are identical on my two PCs running Windows 8.1, which have different hardware.
  
 I did not set the Hiface Two as a default audio device (I want to use it only from within Foobar2000) and I used USB 2 connections.
  
 Right now, I'm still hoping the pre-release 2.20 driver that the m2tech support sent me can fix the playback issue with Windows 8, but I'm unable to install it. I suspect the generic Thesycon driver setup routine has not yet been fully adapted to the Hiface.


----------



## Chodi

claude said:


> Thank you Chodi,
> 
> I also think the issues are with Windows 8 (or maybe just Windows 8.1), because they are identical on my two PCs running Windows 8.1, which have different hardware.
> 
> ...


 
 I would be willing to bet that beta driver m2tech sent you is identical to the WaveIO driver I'm using. Last time Luckit posted a driver upgrade it took m2tech months to finally post the same driver as their own. I don't have Windows 8 and I don't intend to use it so I can't really advise you there.


----------



## zcecc22

Dear HiFace 2 users, after reading most the posts dealing with system issues I thought I would share my experience running the HiFace 2 on linux (kernel 3.12.9).
  
 1) I too had the situation where the HiFace 2 would playback for 3 seconds then stopped for no reason.
 2) Cold boot would sometime leave the HiFace 2 undetected as if it was nt plugged in correctly. Re inserting fixed it and would yield situation 1) again.
  
 For reference, I have two workstations (Dell Latitude E6420 and Precision M4700) and the Hiface 2 was usually plugged in the rear ports of the docking station.
  
 Now none of those issues happened on the Latitude, but the Precision was not working correctly. After some time playing around with the USB ports I noticed that the issues disappeared on the Precision machine if the side USB ports were used. Checking the docking station manual showed that those ports are mapped to the USB2 controller while the rear ports are mapped to the USB3 ports operating in backward compatibility mode.
  
 In short, the HiFace 2 simply does not play well with USB3.
  
 For reference, you will find my .asoundrc file that I use with this configuration below (HiFace 2 --> VDAC II--> VCAN II). Two outputs are defined: a regular mixed output for general OS sounds (16/48kHz mixed) and a pseudo Bit Perfect output for use with music titles. This file can be found here: https://raw.github.com/zcecc22/zcecc22/master/.asoundrc 
   
 # ~/.asoundrc
  
 pcm.dac {
     type hw
     card 2
     nonblock true
 }
  
 pcm.dmixed48 {
     type dmix
     ipc_key 111111
     ipc_key_add_uid true
     ipc_perm 0660
     slave {
         pcm "dac"
         channels 2
         format S16_LE
         rate 48000
         period_time 0
         period_size 1024
         buffer_size 8192
     }
     hint {
         show on
         description "16/48 MIXED OUTPUT"
     }
 }
  
 pcm.!default {
     type plug
     slave.pcm "dmixed48"
 }
  
 pcm.!sysdefault {
     type plug
     slave.pcm "dmixed48"
 }
  
 pcm.bp {
     type plug
     slave {
         pcm "dac"
         channels 2
     }
     hint {
         show on
         description "BIT PERFECT OUTPUT"
     }
 }


----------



## Chodi

zcecc22 said:


> Dear HiFace 2 users, after reading most the posts dealing with system issues I thought I would share my experience running the HiFace 2 on linux (kernel 3.12.9).
> 
> 1) I too had the situation where the HiFace 2 would playback for 3 seconds then stopped for no reason.
> 2) Cold boot would sometime leave the HiFace 2 undetected as if it was nt plugged in correctly. Re inserting fixed it and would yield situation 1) again.
> ...


 
 I think the m2tech folks state in the literature that Hiface 2 works only with usb 2. I was under the impression that usb 3 was backwards compatible but that does not seem to be the case here. I have usb 3 and usb 2 ports on my computer and the hiface 2 will not work on the usb 3 ports. I get a few seconds of music then it shuts off. On my usb 2 ports it work perfectly. So much for usb3 compatibility. This would only really be an issue if you owned a computer with no usb 2 ports. That day is coming for all of us.


----------



## mischaverheul

I've been using the HiFace TWO with several HiFace and USB drivers on USB 3.0 ports.
 Never experienced any problems on Windows 7. Haven't tried Windows 8 and hopefully will never have to .
  
 My board is a MSI p67a-gd65 (b3 rev), the USB 3.0 controller is a NEC® uPD720200F1
 My current USB 3.0 driver is Renesas 2.0.34.0.
  
 I also had no trouble connecting my HiFace TWO on our college systems, again on USB 3.0 ports.


----------



## WindofSirius

Hiface 2 works fine with USB 3.0 (MSI p67a-c43).

 There are *new *drivers - *2.19*. 
  
 Need optimized drivers for our device> register in the .INF file
  
 link - http://rapid.ufanet.ru/65263123
  
  
 -----------------------------------------------------
 V2.19.0 (February 06, 2014)
 -----------------------------------------------------
 * New: New control panel application, improved UI, fully customizable
 * New: New control panel also included in ST driver
 * Fix: SPDIF renderer devices now supports hardware volume controls
 * Fix: KS GetBuffer called at very high rate (@ sample rate)
   if there is a "no buffer" condition
 * Fix: Firmware version in DFU GUI utility not shown as BCD
 * Chg: Custom icon will be patched in DFU utility and control panel .exe.
   External .ico file causes problems because of Windows shell icon caching.
 * Chg: If a device does not implement the Validity control in
   its clock source then assume that the clock is always valid.
 * Chg: Avoid debug trace message in case bus driver completes
   isoch buffer untouched

 -----------------------------------------------------
 V2.18.0 (January 14, 2014)
 -----------------------------------------------------
 * New: Windows 8.1 supported.
 * New: Manifests include Windows 8.1 OS.
        Signatures and .cat files include Windows 8.1 OS tag.
 * New: Driver install packages are self-extracting .exe now
       (created with 7-zip) instead .zip files. This is to avoid
       warning messages about untrusted files in Windows 8.1.
       For more info, see also user manual section 6.2.

 -----------------------------------------------------
 V2.17.0 (December 20, 2013)
 -----------------------------------------------------
 Internal preview release, not for redistribution!
 * Chg: audio class 1.0 feedback endpoint at high speed now supported
 * Chg: generic child device builder now handles interfaces with
        bInterfaceClass=0xFF, but skips interfaces with no endpoints
 * Fix: Stream format switching not working for DSD formats
 * New: Statistics enhanced: sound device volume/mute + feature units

 -----------------------------------------------------
 V2.16.0 (November 26, 2013)
 -----------------------------------------------------
 * Fix: 32 bit PCM through WASAPI was not working
 * New: DSD sample rate 22.6 MHz (DSD512) is supported if device supports 705600 Hz


----------



## Chodi

windofsirius said:


> Hiface 2 works fine with USB 3.0 (MSI p67a-c43).
> 
> There are *new *drivers - *2.19*.
> 
> ...


 
 I downloaded from your link and got the Thesycon evaluation set which states that it inserts a beep after one hour? Is there an already modified version of this 2.19 for Hiface 2 that has no beep? Further instructions would be helpful. I went to the WaveIO/Luckit site to see if they had it up and I see that they have locked their site so that it now requires a username and password to view their site.


----------



## WindofSirius

[img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/0/05/100x100px-LS-055030fe_Capture34.PNG[/img] 
 Chodi
  
 I unfortunately am not strong in programming. Therefore laid out - and who can cope with the task.


----------



## Chodi

WindofSirius it's a simple matter to correct the files for hiface 2 but to remove the beep is not possible for me. The driver has to come from an authorized vendor who is paying for the license. Then it is easy to modify it for Hiface 2. It seems that M2 Tech is not so quick to jump on these upgrades even though they are a licensed user. I will shoot them a note but I fear that M2 Tech does not do any of their own programming (which is why it takes them so long for any software changes). This 2.19 version has some interesting changes so I would like to get this done. I will post back if M2 Tech answers my note.


----------



## Jmstrmbn

Hey everyone, I have a quick request for anyone who owns a Hiface and the original kinect for xbox 360.  I am away at college and while I was home over the weekend I noticed the kinect is powered via a unique cable.  It provides AC power to the device through USB and then sends the data to the Xbox 360 over USB, effectively it's a powered USB extension cable.  I was wondering if anyone who has this cable could plug the HiFace into it plug in the AC power and then attach the male USB to the computer to verify it will receive data.
  
 Thanks for all the great tips and thanks in advance for the help!
  
 John


----------



## schalliol

I don't have a Kinect, but I can't imagine how this would work.  The HiFace/Two is USB to S/PDIF directional audio.


----------



## Oneiric Moor

Yesterday I bought the hiface two bnc + rca adapter (gift) as suggested from a local seller, in his opinion the bnc version work a little bit better. so they trade only that version. What do you think?


----------



## Chodi

oneiric moor said:


> Yesterday I bought the hiface two bnc + rca adapter (gift) as suggested from a local seller, in his opinion the bnc version work a little bit better. so they trade only that version. What do you think?


 
 The device is identical only the connector is different. Pro audio uses the bnc connector. Some will say that bnc is a better connection even for home use than rca. Since you bought the bnc version with an rca adapter, you have the same device in the end as the rca only version (which I own). Either way enjoy. It is a great device and does exactly what it is advertised to do without all the pain I have seen from owners of other devices. You can buy better for much more money, but the Hiface mkII really does its' job and sounds great. This is the same Xmos chip that you would find included in many high end dacs. If you are using Windows just grab the latest drivers from the M2Tech website.


----------



## Oneiric Moor

Thanks for reply, I agree with you. Don't matter which version is plugged, if the dac has an rca input the performance can't be improved from a bnc adapter. Probably the seller has read this from the manual: _Should a hybrid cable be available (that is, a cable with an RCA plug on one end and a BNC plug on the other), it is possible to use a hiFace Two BNC with a DAC provided with an RCA input, or vice versa. *A slight performance increase with respect to an all-RCA link can be obtained*._ Make no sense imho.


----------



## kiskaprince

Is there anyway to reset m2tech interface inside the dac??
 I use Tcontrol panel and clicked option firmware update and load wrong firmware now my dac is not recognize and cant install any driver
 Please help
 Thank you


----------



## Oneiric Moor

Didn't work to unplug hiface, uninstall the driver from windows and reinstall from m2tech site?


----------



## kiskaprince

No
 It is inside my dac
 dac shows unlk in the window
 I have try different computers ,cables etc nothing
 Is there anyway to reset it or force to upgrade proper bin?
 Thank you


----------



## Chodi

kiskaprince said:


> No
> It is inside my dac
> dac shows unlk in the window
> I have try different computers ,cables etc nothing
> ...


 
 Well, sounds like you found a way to flash the eprom with a different bios. I didn't even know that was possible so maybe you should get credit for the discovery. The downside is the same as flashing the wrong bios for your computer motherboard...it won't work. I am guessing you found a bin file somewhere and flashed it? You need the correct bin file or the computer will not recognize the device. I think all us Hiface 2 owners would like details on exactly how you managed to flash this (with what software) and where you got the bin file you flashed?
  
 Unless the bin file you flash is designed specifically for the Hiface 2 it is unlikely that it would work. I am not aware that M2Tech has ever offered a bios upgrade for the HF2? I do see something about that ability in the Thesycon driver but without an appropriate image file I never thought to bother with it. If you have actually located a place where M2Tech hides these image files I would be very interested.
  
 You are going to need the original bin file to re-flash back to the original operating condition. I guess you could beg M2Tech for that bin file (unless you were clever and backed it up before flashing).


----------



## Claude

The problem in this case seems to be that you can't flash a correct firmware now, because the device has no working firmware and will not react to any command from the PC. It's dead.
  
 Normally, a firmware upgrade function should check that the firmware file is a correct one, before flashing it.
  
 Other devices can sometimes be saved by flashing the chip containing the firmware directly, using eprom programming hardware. Not sure this is possible here. 
  
 You should contact M2Tech support. Good luck.


----------



## kiskaprince

Thank you all for help
 It was actually my brother in law who did it
 Somehow he thought it was a bin for it
 Actually it was a bin from EMM labs bin he flashed
 It seems like device is dead
 I hope there is a way to revive it
 Thank you again


----------



## Chodi

kiskaprince said:


> Thank you all for help
> It was actually my brother in law who did it
> Somehow he thought it was a bin for it
> Actually it was a bin from EMM labs bin he flashed
> ...


 
 Pretty sure Claude was right. You are going to have to send it back to M2Tech. Just like on a computer motherboard when this happen they have to replace the bios chip. Claude is right, if your computer cannot even see the device then it would be impossible to re-flash. Honestly, it was a crazy thing to do to flash one device with the bin file from a completely different device (and a different company).


----------



## Jonathan66100

Hi All, and hi Chodi : ) 
  
 It seems to me that the site is not secure by password 
 http://luckit.biz/product/waveio/
  
 But I believe understand that if they are not modified to hiface 2  they not working? 
  
 As many people, my Hiface 2 runs on USB2 but not on USB3 
 In any case thank you


----------



## bogi

The latest version on that page is 2.15.
 The adaption for hiFace2: http://www.head-fi.org/t/601203/m2tech-hiface-2/435#post_10165901


----------



## Chodi

jonathan66100 said:


> Hi All, and hi Chodi : )
> 
> It seems to me that the site is not secure by password
> http://luckit.biz/product/waveio/
> ...


 
 You're right the site is no longer requiring a password to enter. I just went to take a look and I see they are selling an xmos based I2s converter. As far as I know there are few dac's that accept I2s input? I enjoy the Hiface 2 but the latest 2.15 driver really did not make any difference that I could tell. Lately, I have been thinking about upgrading the Hiface 2 as many new usb offerings are out there. Only problem is the alternatives seem very expensive. Still it's on my mind. 
  
 I can't get over the fact that spending $1000 or more on just a usb interface would seem silly when you can get an entire package dac with a good usb input for the same price range. I don't have the ability in my location to test out several of the usb alternatives. Last thing I want to do is invest a $1000 and find out it is only a very small improvement over the Hiface 2. I have read that the results are very dac dependent as to the results with any of these converters. When I bought the Hiface 2 my dac and many other did not come with a usb input. Now nearly all dac's come standard with usb and most are the same xmos chip.  Makes the concept of a separate usb converter less appealing.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Thanks Bogi and Chodi : ) 
 But the link on this post http://www.head-fi.org/t/601203/m2tech-hiface-2/435#post_10165901 not working : /


----------



## Chodi

jonathan66100 said:


> Thanks Bogi and Chodi : )
> But the link on this post http://www.head-fi.org/t/601203/m2tech-hiface-2/435#post_10165901 not working : /


 
 I zipped my finished version and uploaded it for you. Here is a link:
  
 http://speedy.sh/dfm84/Luckit-v2.15-with-mod.rar
  
 Please let me know if this works for you. It is the first time I have used that upload service. It include the modded 2.15 ready to install.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Many Thanks Chodi !
 I downloaded and tested at the instant 

 Very easy to install! 
 By always against this problem with my USB 3 ports. 
 Problem of permanent crackling in the sound. 
  
 In any case thank you very much for this version of the driver!  
  
 PS: If I understood your previous post you said that the site sells USB convertiseurs more than 1000 USD?
  
 Thank again Chodi.


----------



## Chodi

jonathan66100 said:


> Many Thanks Chodi !
> I downloaded and tested at the instant
> 
> Very easy to install!
> ...


 
 No, not the Luckit site. I was talking about the AP2+PP and other similar devices that cost as much as my entire dac. You will need to use a usb 2 port for the Hiface 2 or you will have problems. The usb 3 standard isn't all that standard and is also not all that backward compatible. Most motherboards still offer some usb 2 ports on the board. You can check your manual to identify the usb 2 ports. If that fails try increasing the size of your buffer. As a last resort try different output drivers from JRiver - asio, KS. Wasapi event, etc. One of them should work. 
  
 I should also have mentioned that it is best to uninstall your old driver before installing the new 2.15. You've already installed it so you can go to the Thesycon window and verify which driver is really active.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Ah ok, yes it is too expensive in my opinion also.
  
 yes the 2.15 driver is activated, but I do not désinstaler the old driver: / 
 I had try to go through ASIO, WASAPI and other, increase the buffer, but always sizzling. 
  
 I plug  therefore hiface 2 on a USB 2 port but it is placed on the wrong side of my DAC, therefore the cable goes around the laptop, but it is not too serious  
 By cons they should not say that hiface 2 is compatible with USB 3: D


----------



## Chodi

jonathan66100 said:


> Ah ok, yes it is too expensive in my opinion also.
> 
> yes the 2.15 driver is activated, but I do not désinstaler the old driver: /
> I had try to go through ASIO, WASAPI and other, increase the buffer, but always sizzling.
> ...


 
 Actually, I was not aware that they say Hiface 2 is compatible with usb 3? I thought they specifically said it was not. Anyway, many have found that it will not work properly with usb 3 ports, but it may be dependent on the specific motherboard. On my computer I can't get anything out of the usb 3 ports with the Hiface 2. So I just use a usb 2 port and it works perfectly.


----------



## Jonathan66100

They say here in the manual. 
  
 http://www.m2tech.biz/public/pdf/hiFace%20Two%20user%20manual%201-0.pdf
  
 But this is not really a problem unless you do not have a USB port 2: D


----------



## Chodi

jonathan66100 said:


> They say here in the manual.
> 
> http://www.m2tech.biz/public/pdf/hiFace%20Two%20user%20manual%201-0.pdf
> 
> But this is not really a problem unless you do not have a USB port 2: D


 
 I never noticed that but you are right they do say so. They really shouldn't since there are hundreds of devices that won't work on usb 3 ports. I have some memory sticks that won't work on my usb 3 ports but they claim to be compatible. There are posts all over the computer forums about this problem with a wide variety of devices. USB 3 is not really backwards compatible although it was claimed to be. I think everyone was fooled by this including a lot of manufacturers. Can't really blame M2Tech since they probably couldn't even test this when they wrote that manual. Might work on some usb 3 ports from some motherboards but not mine. I get silence.


----------



## Jonathan66100

I not blame them: p 
 but I would like they to do compatible drivers one day  
 Aside from that, I am very happy with their hiface 2 
  
 ps: I am also disappointed by the USB port 3.


----------



## WindofSirius

http://luckit.biz/product/waveio/ - WaveIO drivers (v 2.19.0) – Latest version available!!!


----------



## WindofSirius

after modification - Put a link to download. thank you


----------



## Chodi

windofsirius said:


> http://luckit.biz/product/waveio/ - WaveIO drivers (v 2.19.0) – Latest version available!!!


 
 I think the drivers after 1.61 were only changed to accommodate the newer xmos chips and their ability to do 384khz and DSD over usb. I really don't think it will have an effect on older devices like the Hiface 2. Xmos has moved onto a newer series which is incorporated in many recent dac's. Those drivers are intended to be universal, backwards compatible for xmos products. I recently purchased a new usb converter out of curiosity and it is obviously better than my Hiface 2 (which was not bad at all). It uses the newer U series xmos chip in a much bigger package. It is also cheaper than the Hiface. Yes, I was just bored and wanted to try something different.


----------



## oldson

oldson said:


> i used to get this problem all the time.
> i recently bought a new monitor with built in usb hub.
> since i have been using this hub, i have had no problems at all.


 
 well after many months without an issue, the problem is now back.
 tried the latest luckit driver and it would not work at all. reinstalled the driver i had been using (for months with no issue) and that would not work at all either.
 downloaded the latest driver from m2tech which got my hiface2 working again, but the fault where it is not recognised on start-up is back.
 am i right in assuming that should i replace the hiface2 with the Waveio board, i may still have the same issue?


----------



## oldson

chodi said:


> I think the drivers after 1.61 were only changed to accommodate the newer xmos chips and their ability to do 384khz and DSD over usb. I really don't think it will have an effect on older devices like the Hiface 2. Xmos has moved onto a newer series which is incorporated in many recent dac's. Those drivers are intended to be universal, backwards compatible for xmos products. I recently purchased a new usb converter out of curiosity and it is obviously better than my Hiface 2 (which was not bad at all). It uses the newer U series xmos chip in a much bigger package. It is also cheaper than the Hiface. Yes, I was just bored and wanted to try something different.


 
 what did you buy?


----------



## Chodi

oldson said:


> what did you buy?


 
 I bought the following:
  
 ww.ebay.com/itm/Gustard-U10-natif-32-bits-384k-USB-SPDIF-Converter-0-1-ppm-TCXO-XMOS-interieur-/301150169610?pt=FR_Image_Son_Vintage&hash=item461df2ea0a
  
 After a few hours burn in it was obviously better than my Hiface 2. I have considered AP2 but the price simply seemed out of range for me. Products like the AP2 and OR5 are sold in very small quantities (considering the size of the market). They are priced accordingly. I live in Asia so ordering from Asia is my norm. I could read the specs and look at the circuit board photos and see that this had a good chance of at least being competitive with the Hiface. I was pleasantly surprised when it trounced the Hiface 2. No more driver problems either. It was supplied with 2.19 on disc. Works every time. Would the AP2 or the OR5 be better, probably, but at those prices I don't really care. This was a very cheap upgrade. I'm happy until I get the uncontrollable desire to buy the Auralic Vega.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Thank for the link of Gustard, Chodi.
  
 It looks really good ! 
 But I prefer the Hiface 2 because it is smaller and works directly on USB : )


----------



## Chodi

jonathan66100 said:


> Thank for the link of Gustard, Chodi.
> 
> It looks really good !
> But I prefer the Hiface 2 because it is smaller and works directly on USB : )


 
 Yes, that's thing about the Hiface. It's small and very portable. You get good sound in a tiny package. The Gustard is a desk top unit and you need the space for it and a/c power.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Gain certainly  in quality   
 But I wait a hiface 3, because for me the space saving is important.
  
 This seems really no bad too
 http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/halide-design-usb-to-spdif-bridge-2/
 http://halidedesign.com/store/en/12-spdif-bridge-v101.html


----------



## oldson

oldson said:


> well after many months without an issue, the problem is now back.
> tried the latest luckit driver and it would not work at all. reinstalled the driver i had been using (for months with no issue) and that would not work at all either.
> downloaded the latest driver from m2tech which got my hiface2 working again, but the fault where it is not recognised on start-up is back.
> am i right in assuming that should i replace the hiface2 with the Waveio board, i may still have the same issue?


 
 done a bios update so will be interesting to see if the issue disappears


----------



## Chodi

oldson said:


> done a bios update so will be interesting to see if the issue disappears


 
 I can tell you that since I replaced my Hiface 2 with the unit I posted I have not had a single issue, About 1 in 4 boots my Hiface 2 was not recognized by the windows 7 system. I had to disconnect the device and reconnect to get it to be recognized. The Gustard has worked every time as it should. I was not aware that they had any bios update available for the Hiface 2?


----------



## oldson

chodi said:


> I can tell you that since I replaced my Hiface 2 with the unit I posted I have not had a single issue, About 1 in 4 boots my Hiface 2 was not recognized by the windows 7 system. I had to disconnect the device and reconnect to get it to be recognized. The Gustard has worked every time as it should. I was not aware that they had any bios update available for the Hiface 2?


 
 no it was a motherboard bios update.
 some of the fixes listed on later bios versions, than the version i had, addressed usb issues.
 so far it is working ok. but then it could for months at a time before.
 what i have noticed though is everything seems faster on my pc, including start-up which is now just 45 seconds.


----------



## Chodi

oldson said:


> no it was a motherboard bios update.
> some of the fixes listed on later bios versions, than the version i had, addressed usb issues.
> so far it is working ok. but then it could for months at a time before.
> what i have noticed though is everything seems faster on my pc, including start-up which is now just 45 seconds.


 
 In fact I had changed my motherboard (i7 based) so completely different bios and still had the problem with the Hiface 2. I think you will find that it will reappear. If you are booting in 45 seconds you must be using an ssd for your boot drive? I am also using an ssd but I could not claim 45 seconds boot time. I guess it also depends on how much the system is loading at startup. In my case it is more like 60-70 seconds. I think I can wait that long.
  
 At one time I had written M2Tech about the problem and got a very nice email back explaining that it was a known problem for which they had no fix. In that email they also admitted that they had nothing to do with the software so they had no idea for a fix. They said they contracted for the software were hoping their vendor would come up with something in the future to address this.That note was many months ago so by now they are probably more interested in the next generation product.


----------



## Chodi

I just decided to try my new usb device from one of my usb 3 ports to see if it would work and it does work just fine. When I tried to hook my Hiface 2 to the same usb 3 port I get no sound at all. So...the newer xmos usb chip must be more compatible.


----------



## Jonathan66100

So briskly the Hiface 3 : )


----------



## SpeedSurfer

Got new driver and firmware for my HiFace2 from m2tech support. I can confirm that this solved my problems on my MacMini (USB3) and Windows 8.1.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Hi : ) 
 I do not see any new driver for hiface 2 on the site M2TECH.


----------



## Neuromance

jonathan66100 said:


> Hi : )
> I do not see any new driver for hiface 2 on the site M2TECH.


 
  
 I think he might be referring to the Mavericks driver?  The link is below:
  
 http://www.m2tech.biz/it/mavericks_install.html


----------



## Jonathan66100

Thank : )
 But SpeedSurfer say also "Windows 8.1"


----------



## Adda

He also mentioned a firmware update, just the sort of thing that might fix the problem where the hiFace Two hangs and has to be reconnected, and USB 3.0 problems too.


----------



## Claude

That doesn't surprise me.


  
 M2Tech support sent me a "pre-release" driver 5 months ago to try to fix my Windows 8.1 problem (see my post #447 and following in this thread) - which did not work  - but no new driver has been posted on their website since then.


----------



## Chodi

claude said:


> That doesn't surprise me.
> 
> 
> 
> M2Tech support sent me a "pre-release" driver 5 months ago to try to fix my Windows 8.1 problem (see my post #447 and following in this thread) - which did not work  - but no new driver has been posted on their website since then.


 
 After several communications with M2Tech I came to the conclusion that they are a hardware company with no internal software capability. They admit as much. They contract out for their software and they really need a new source. I don't really feel they have a strong grasp on the software side of things. They design and build nice hardware but the software side is really holding them back. Makes me wonder just how small a company they really are. You would think they would have at least one programmer on their staff.


----------



## Audiofanboy

Many interesting points have been raised in the last page or two, and if you just use all those suggestions you should be able to get the Hiface 2 to work on Win 8.1 with USB 3.0 ports and with the latest drivers--and sound a little better.
  
 First, the firmware, I just updated my Hiface with the firmware one of the engineers at M2Tech sent me, and it indeed solves all my problems since I changed computers (which I kind of knew were USB 3.0 related), no more pops or crackling every 30s! So I encourage all of you to update your firmwares. Note you need to reinstall the drivers afterwards.
  
 Next, even though it's not absolutely necessary, I got the latest 2.23 drivers off the Luckit website, changed the usual strings of text in the two files, installed with driver signature disabled, and the drivers work fine. There's a new control panel since 2.19, and the "always on" option is not longer there. I saw on some Chinese forum that there's a way to enable this "always on" option forever using an old control panel exe separately but I haven't gotten that part to work yet (the only issue is that I might get some stutter when I first start playing sound).
  
 And I would still suggest getting all the latency settings as low as possible in the control panel, and getting / making an external battery power supply for the Hiface, as I've suggested in the past...
  
 Anyway, I don't know what influenced what, but I do feel a marked improvement in sound after updating drivers from 2.15 to 2.23 and changing firmwares. I had tried 2.19 a few weeks ago and felt a slight improvement, which I attributed to placebo, and I don't believe much has changed between 2.19 and 2.23, so I think much of the change is because of the firmware (whether it's because it's inherently better or because it plays more nicely with USB 3.0 I don't know), or at least half drivers, half firmware.
  
 I'd love to upload the latest modded drivers and firmware here, but I'm too lazy to find out how and where I can host them, so if someone wants to make the files available, just PM and I can email them to you.
  
 Edit: Chinese forum page if anyone is interested; one dude has a link for an "always on" solution lower on the page. I downloaded it but couldn't get it to work, since it's made from drivers 2.16 files (old panel) as a solution when using drivers 2.19 (new panel) and for another XMOS based device (iFi something). Good luck figuring this Schiit out...
http://www.pchifi.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=103661


----------



## Adda

M2Tech will officially release the new firmware tomorrow, so keep an eye on their site by then.


----------



## Adda

It seems the firmware update is delayed for some reason, no words from M2Tech.
 I guess they went home for the weekend, I hope they have a good one, so they can release it Monday.


----------



## Jonathan66100

In all case thank for the information Adda : ) 
 And also thank you for your report Audiofanboy : )


----------



## Chodi

audiofanboy said:


> Edit: Chinese forum page if anyone is interested; one dude has a link for an "always on" solution lower on the page. I downloaded it but couldn't get it to work, since it's made from drivers 2.16 files (old panel) as a solution when using drivers 2.19 (new panel) and for another XMOS based device (iFi something). Good luck figuring this Schiit out...
> http://www.pchifi.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=103661


 
 I looked at the code for 2.23 and it seems they have the "always on" selected by default as a registry entry that is inserted during installation. I don't see the need for any further tweeking. I will get around to installing this new version today and see if it is an improvement. It may not make any difference for those of us using Windows 7. I am currently using the 2.19 version but I am compulsive about having the latest drivers so I will upgrade today and report any difference I notice. Have to give credit for these people at Luckit they are on the ball.


----------



## Adda

The update is indeed delayed, their web designer is doing his best to get it up on their site by Monday, but it may be added sometime during this weekend.
  
 I'll keep checking once in a while, if you do too, please post here when it appears, if no one else has yet, you may be the first to see it.


----------



## Claude

I've just seen that the firmware is available. It's not linked on the product page. You have to catch the link on the newsticker banner on the main page ....
  
 http://www.m2tech.biz/it/firmware_update_xmos.html


----------



## Jonathan66100

Thank you very much !  I never would have found here.
 I test tonight and I told you if it solves my problem of USB3.


----------



## Claude

I've installed the firmware, using my old Thinkpad from 2005 which has become my music PC since I have the Hiface 2, as the driver wouldn't work with Windows 8.1 (more info about that in this thread)
  
 After the upgrade, the Hiface2 could not be detected by the driver setup (1.7) on the same laptop, although it is shown in the device manager. I will try again later.
  
 But with the new firmware, I can use it for the first time on my Windows 8.1 64bit desktop PC, with the driver 1.7. No more sound stuttering and device disconnects when playing 24/96 audio.


----------



## Claude

claude said:


> After the upgrade, the Hiface2 could not be detected by the driver setup (1.7) on the same laptop, although it is shown in the device manager. I will try again later.


 

 This also works now.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Work perfectly ! 
 No creaking noises when I plugged into a USB3 port, unlike before.
  
 Thank to developers and all who participated in this topic  
 Thank Claude for having show me the link, I'd never find on this page.
  
 ( I plugged into a USB3 port on a Alienware M14X R2 on Windows 7, I use the 1.7.0 driver of HiFace 2)


----------



## Audiofanboy

So, they _finally _released the firmware on their website huh?
  
 I'm kind of curious now, did anyone hear an immediate difference in sound quality like I did?
  
 At any rate, new firmware and drivers are not only working great for me, but also sound so much better than before it's almost hard to believe...


----------



## hennessys

+1


----------



## Chodi

audiofanboy said:


> So, they _finally _released the firmware on their website huh?
> 
> I'm kind of curious now, did anyone hear an immediate difference in sound quality like I did?
> 
> At any rate, new firmware and drivers are not only working great for me, but also sound so much better than before it's almost hard to believe...


 
 Perhaps you could be more specific about the improvement? I have a Hiface 2 I haven't used in a long while but your description might force me to update it and give it a try.


----------



## Jmstrmbn

Just found this firmware update and it may have removed a little bit of edgeiness from the treble.  The biggest change for me running off a mac is that it can now actually run in 16bit.  Previously it resampled everything to 24.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Hi Jmstrmbn : )
 You talk about the new firmware found by Claude ? or another new ?


----------



## Jmstrmbn

I assume the firmware is the same found by Claude, post is not dated on the website though.  According to the computer the firmware version is 6.61.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Yes it is him : )
 With this firmware my hiface 2 works perfectly with the  USB3 port : )


----------



## MarkyMark

My HiFace2 works fine with USB3 ports on my Asus i5 ULV laptop. No pops, crackles etc. with 24/192khz material and doing web browsing etc. at same time.

I use it with a Benchmark DAC1 classic and HD800. 

I'm using a 2 metre Belkin USB extension cable 'cos I use it in bed or at a work desk and this works without issue but whether this is optimal is, of course, debatable. It would be very interesting to try this against some of the battery powered type solutions (e.g. Elijah Audio) to see what, if any, difference, there would be. If all the bits are present in each scenario then Benchmark would presumably say "none" since Ultralock deals with it......


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## Adda

Luckit released driver v2.24.0


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## cristi289

kiskaprince said:


> Is there anyway to reset m2tech interface inside the dac??
> I use Tcontrol panel and clicked option firmware update and load wrong firmware now my dac is not recognize and cant install any driver
> Please help
> Thank you


 

 Hello guys,
 I'm in the same situation ...
 Did anybody find a solution how to revive the M2Tech Hiface Two after it was write a wrong firmware on it?
 Regards,
 Cristi.


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## Chodi

cristi289 said:


> Hello guys,
> I'm in the same situation ...
> Did anybody find a solution how to revive the M2Tech Hiface Two after it was write a wrong firmware on it?
> Regards,
> Cristi.


 
 You can try re-flashing with the correct firmware but that usually doesn't work. I'm afraid this is no different then a bad bios flash on a computer. You will probably have to return the Hiface 2 to the factory where they will either replace the eprom chip or just send you a new unit. There is usually no way to recover because your computer no longer recognizes the device.


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## Luckit

Luckit will release more drivers soon but it will not be so easy to get them from now on. Also Thesycon is aware of this condition and will take appropriate measures. I know from 100% reliable sources


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## Adda

Why?


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## Luckit

Well, this could be a useless question for those who are already understanding Luckit's position but for the rest of guys who don't here is a short list of reasons:
  1. I found a thread on the internet with clear instructions on how to hack WaveIO's drivers and, coincidentally, the one who made that thread has exactly the same nick name like you (Adda). You should be proud of yourself!
  2. Those drivers are meant for WaveIO cards ONLY. If you have a WaveIO card and can prove it by sourcing your full name, address and when you bought it then you will get a copy of those drivers for WaveIO. Anyway, it's not applicable in your case anymore as I'm already aware of your 'habit'.
  3. If M2Tech is too busy with their own agenda and don't care at all about updating drivers for their products then why should I care for their customers/boards?
  4. I'm paying to have those drivers and I'll do so only to support those who bought WaveIOs! Obviously, there's a huge difference compared to what M2Tech and other "respected" companies are doing for their customers!
  
   Since I guess you have M2Tech Hiface 2 then I suggest you to search for drivers + support on M2Tech web site and kindly ask them to update their drivers to latest versions. For now, I can see it's 1.7.0 which was built back in 2013 - should I understand that that's how much you're counting for them? I don't have anything against M2Tech and their products/customers but I cannot see the reason for which WaveIO should pay the price for lack of driver updates from their side.
   Above are listed only to be clear about Luckit's intentions related to any future drivers built for WaveIO USB interfaces.
  
   As for now, I wish you good luck in getting latest drivers from M2Tech.
   Happy listening,
   L


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## Chodi

M2Tech has come out and admitted that they are not a software company and have no in house talent for software. They pay for outside services to modify their version of the Thesycon driver because they don't have that ability. They have been painfully slow to recognize the need for updates. I think there is no excuse for this. If they are going to market the product they should provide prompt support including software updates. I got tired of it and sold mine. The people at Wave IO seem to have their act together.


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## Adda

M2Tech doesn't have to be a software company, you can get the latest drivers from the Thesycon website, and mod them to work in a hiFace two, easily, but it makes a bleep sound with regular intervals.

The only reason why Luckit is the only vendor who has the latest drivers is because Thesycon, unlike pretty much any other computer hardware manufacturer out there, charges for driver updates, and companies like M2Tech don't want to buy the updates.

I'm sure Luckit has gotten a LOT more attention then they would have otherwise, because of this.

And I'm sure nVidia would have been a complete failure if they charged for driver updates.


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## Luckit

It may be as you say or not. I don't want to make off topics here so it will be one of my last posts.
  Regarding drivers: It's true that Thesycon is charging for drivers but the news (dated 1 year back or more) is that every manufacturer which has built products around XMOS processors has the right (according to Thesycon) to ask for latest driver packs from them free of charge. I know this directly from Mrs. Ute Eberhard from Thesycon. This means that every manufacturer that acquired in the past at least a batch fo XMOS processors with -THS extension is eligible for this deal!
   So, if M2Tech has acquired at least a batch of such a processors then is included. And, the beautiful story is that IT IS included in the eligible list! I also know this from Mrs. Ute which has checked on them and confirm my suppositions (otherwise, at that time - 2013 - they wouldn't be capable to build up their own drivers 1.7.0 unless they have passed through all that nasty process!). So far, the M2Tech has the right to update the drivers WITHOUT paying for them anymore! This deal comes after XMOS itself has abandoned the driver deal some time ago and Thesycon taken it from where it was left!
  In the past I had to prove that I acquired processors with -THS extension to get the latest driver packs from XMOS site, now I'll go directly to Thesycon and ask the same thing!
   M2Tech had to sign a new contract between Thescyon and them and voila: they have drivers! So far is simple as that!
   Now, if you don't want to cross through this hassle hiding behind the "software company" story then this is another thing! It's hard for me to imagine how a simple guy like me ("one man show" company if I can say that) manages to build up drivers for WaveIOs, get all necessary information for that and make it while a whole company like M2Tech isn't capable!
   Maybe additional payment for Microsoft certificates has scared them ... we all know that every further payment will make capitalists go angry!  
   In the end and related to drivers, I can assure you that if M2Tech wanted then they could/can build up drivers for their products. From Thesycon's point of view there's no charges, like aren't in Luckit's case! Nevertheless, it all comes down to the matter of will and principle: as a manufacturer, will you or will you not support your product in such a  way that any buyer take benefit of our products for as much time as possible? From the capitalist's point of view, this principle is useless but on my side, human is above money and this can be seen through WaveIO for a coupe of years.
   Here you're not right!
  
  As for attention: you're partially right because, even if drivers aren't used with WaveIO then I'll get attention only by the fact that one can see the "WaveIO" name in Program Files and when installation will take place (through that picture you see in the installation process). The huge downside of all this is the fact that almost ALL the remaining manufacturers could take benefit of this security breach. While I'm paying for all the charges to have latest drivers, some chinese and SK copycats are selling cheap products knowing that the buyer will have the opportunity to have latest drivers from Luckit. How convenient! After all, if less and less peoples will acquire WaveIO boards because there are cheapest and most of them poorly made alternatives on eBay, Aliexpress and other sites, what I will do with that "attention" I'm having if my business is dying? I say to you: it's useless on my case!
  In the past I survived because of the quality of products I'm building and I'll survive from now on regardless of that "attention" I could get by sharing drivers to the crowd, which may or may not be favorable for me. I REALLY DOUBT that a thief that's stealing WaveIO drivers is capable to support the product from which is stealing off and pay for a more expensive alternative to the crappy chinese market! I didn't live to see that exception!  
   In the end I want to say again that the decision stays regardless of how many "attention" I will get from hacking my drivers! After all I'm one of the firsts that has built boards around XMOS processor and that's enough for me so far!
   Kind regards,
   L


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## Adda

I understand your point of view.
  
 The best solution I see, is that Thesycon makes a driver that is compatible with XMOS devices in general, rather then force manufacturers though the trouble you describe.
 Imagine if Intel had the same driver policy as Thesycon ;(
  
 I agree though, it is unfair that a bunch of manufacturers avoid updating their drivers, since it makes people go to the only manufacturer who does, and hacks their drivers.
  
 I would not have known about Luckit if it wasn't for the drivers though, I'm sure a lot of people can say the same.
  
 Edit: I have deleted my guide over at AK, but I'm sure a lot remain, I learned the technique from this thread.


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## Chodi

adda said:


> M2Tech doesn't have to be a software company, you can get the latest drivers from the Thesycon website, and mod them to work in a hiFace two, easily, but it makes a bleep sound with regular intervals.
> 
> The only reason why Luckit is the only vendor who has the latest drivers is because Thesycon, unlike pretty much any other computer hardware manufacturer out there, charges for driver updates, and companies like M2Tech don't want to buy the updates.
> 
> ...


 
 Good point I didn't know that Thesycon was charging their authorized vendors for updates. That is an interesting business model.


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## amagr

Hey! Would M2Tech work only with BravoV2 and headphones or I need any other device? 
 THank you!


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## Adda

Yes you'd need a DAC with a SPDIF coax input also.


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## hennessys

Tell me i just happened to fix my new laptop on the day the driver came out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Gottabuythelottery!
  
Microsoft Windows 7/8   (32 and 64 bit) (upgrade 20.05.2015)
  
 M2TECH_USBAudio_Driver_r3.0.0


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## Cool Barn

Thanks for that driver link Hennessys!  But now I want to know why the Luckit Drivers are the only ones to include the superior TUSB Audio Control Panel?  I'm always keen on trying out the latest XMOS drivers to see if I can squeeze any more performance out of my Stello U3 (which is already pretty good), but none of the other companies include a control panel with an "Always On" option like Luckit does.  It annoys the piss out of me every time audio gets played on my computer and the first few seconds go walkabout, so I always end up rolling back to my Luckit IO 2.24 drivers which give me that option.
  
 Hopefully some updated drivers with the TUSB panel are released soon, as most of the current control panels have very limited options


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## hennessys

Sorry mate,

Can't help with this. I thank god to be lucky enough not to have driver problem for now. The original driver works for me (mostly, i runned into unplugging a few times lately). I had my share of madness under Linux.

Can anybody suggest a good rechargeable power supply? I'm planing to take the usb port power out of the line. If somehing good with AA batteries i'ld love to know.


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## WindofSirius

How are things with windows 10?
 Does an updated driver with the new operating system?


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## Claude

I'm trying Windows 10 on my Thinkpad L530 notebook and installed the 3.0 driver from m2tech, tested the Hiface2 briefly (it's not my music PC). 24/96 files played fine with foobar2000.


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## WindofSirius

claude said:


> I'm trying Windows 10 on my Thinkpad L530 notebook and installed the 3.0 driver from m2tech, tested the Hiface2 briefly (it's not my music PC). 24/96 files played fine with foobar2000.


 

 Thanks


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## Cool Barn

Does the M2Tech Control Panel in the latest 3.0 drivers allow you to select USB Streaming Mode, Asio buffer size, and the "always on" option like the old TUSB Control Panel?


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## Claude

New 3.26 driver for Windows was released on November 30
  
 http://www.m2tech.biz/it/hiface2.html


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## BunnyNamedCraig

hey gang. Having difficulty achieving 24 bit 96000Hz playback.... My DAC being used is a dac 19 dsp which should be able to support that. I set the settings on my windows 10 pc from 16 bit to the 24 bit and i run the "test" pattern. I hear the test pattern but it clicks and pops. I play a song on i tunes and i get about 3 seconds of song and it stops dead. cant play anything else either after that... so i have  what i believe to be the latest driver (version 3.34) for windows 10 x  64 they call it. any helpful tips will be much appreciated. i have looked to the last pages of this thread but it seems like the biggest hiccup for people was which usb they plug it into (i have tried all 4 usb on my comp and see no difference) and also a hiccup would be what driver they have installed. im perplexed. ALSO after trying to go to a higher bitrate my youtube wont wont either. The 16 bit seems to work fine with me btw. last and hopefully least- i have the same issues with foobar as i do with i tunes in regards to it playing music but it can have the clicks and pops sound and then turns off. i am only using i tunes do to apple music subscription. thank you for your time.


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## Jerryfan

bunnynamedfrank said:


> hey gang. Having difficulty achieving 24 bit 96000Hz playback.... My DAC being used is a dac 19 dsp which should be able to support that. I set the settings on my windows 10 pc from 16 bit to the 24 bit and i run the "test" pattern. I hear the test pattern but it clicks and pops. I play a song on i tunes and i get about 3 seconds of song and it stops dead. cant play anything else either after that... so i have  what i believe to be the latest driver (version 3.34) for windows 10 x  64 they call it. any helpful tips will be much appreciated. i have looked to the last pages of this thread but it seems like the biggest hiccup for people was which usb they plug it into (i have tried all 4 usb on my comp and see no difference) and also a hiccup would be what driver they have installed. im perplexed. ALSO after trying to go to a higher bitrate my youtube wont wont either. The 16 bit seems to work fine with me btw. last and hopefully least- i have the same issues with foobar as i do with i tunes in regards to it playing music but it can have the clicks and pops sound and then turns off. i am only using i tunes do to apple music subscription. thank you for your time.




I know this doesn't help your problem but consider upgrading. Big strides have been made in this technology and it turns out it's one of the most important parts of a computer based system.


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## BunnyNamedCraig

Lol I would upgrade if I didn't already just buy this. I actually don't even know what I am missing in rehearses to the different bit rates. 16 (cd quality) sounds pretty dang good. BUT I want to push it further and see if I hear an audible difference


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## Claude

bunnynamedfrank said:


> hey gang. Having difficulty achieving 24 bit 96000Hz playback.... My DAC being used is a dac 19 dsp which should be able to support that. I set the settings on my windows 10 pc from 16 bit to the 24 bit and i run the "test" pattern. I hear the test pattern but it clicks and pops. I play a song on i tunes and i get about 3 seconds of song and it stops dead. cant play anything else either after that... so i have  what i believe to be the latest driver (version 3.34) for windows 10 x  64 they call it. any helpful tips will be much appreciated. i have looked to the last pages of this thread but it seems like the biggest hiccup for people was which usb they plug it into (i have tried all 4 usb on my comp and see no difference) and also a hiccup would be what driver they have installed. im perplexed. ALSO after trying to go to a higher bitrate my youtube wont wont either. The 16 bit seems to work fine with me btw. last and hopefully least- i have the same issues with foobar as i do with i tunes in regards to it playing music but it can have the clicks and pops sound and then turns off. i am only using i tunes do to apple music subscription. thank you for your time.


 
  
 Do you have the latest firmware? The update from June 2014.
  
 The symptoms you describe are the same I had with windows 8.1 with the old firmware.
  
 The version can be checked in MUSBAudio Control Panel --> Info --> Revision. It should be v6.61


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## BunnyNamedCraig

Hey- is this what everyone has right now?


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## Claude

Hi,
  
 Your screenshot looks like you have an old driver installed, or the upgrade of the driver was incomplete.
  
 Here's what my driver control panel looks like, with the latest driver 3.34:
  

  
 Concerning the firmware, there are two issues:
 - the current firmware 6.61 from June 2014 doesn't seem to be available anymore on the M2tech website. If your firmware version is older, you would need to request the upgrade from their support
 - the current driver no longer has a "Firmware Upgrade" function. I don't know how the firmware upgrade works with the current driver.
  
 Here's what I suggest:
 - make sure you have the old driver installation file (you might need it to upgrade the firmware)
 - uninstall the driver
 - install the latest driver 3.34 (available on the M2tech website)
 - check the firmware revision (screen above)
 - if the firmware is lower than 6.61, upgrading the firmware is the obvious solution to your sound problems. You would have to request the firmware from the manufacturer and ask for the installation instructions. Maybe you will have to install the old driver and use it's firmware upgrade function, then install the new driver again.
  
 I hope this helps


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## Claude

I just noticed something odd:
  
 When googling about the Hiface Two driver, I landed on this page, which only has the very old drivers 1.61 and 1.70 (which could be useful for the firmware upgrade function) :
  
 http://www.m2tech.biz/en/hiface2.html
  
 The up-to-date driver is available on the "italian" page of the site, which is also in english
  
 http://www.m2tech.biz/it/hiface2.html


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## BunnyNamedCraig

Claude thank you so much. Going to try this as soon as I get the chance!


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## musickid

simple questions,
  
 1) what happens to hiface2 when imac is asleep? is it in standby or on etc etc or powered off?
  
 2) if imac is asleep but dac is on warming up would the hiface be affected by the dac power or vice versa?
  
 3) finally only hiface2 shows up on audio midi settings so whatever sample rate is shown for hiface2 can i ensure that that is the sample rate going into the dac and being processed by the dac?
  
 4) and if the imac is on but not playing music is the hiface2 on or in standby? is it taking power here for no reason?
  
 many thanks to all may be getting one soon.


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## Xennon

For some reason, I cannot use my hiface 2 with Windows 10. The driver is installed, and the computer recognizes the device, but the M2Tech application does not detect the device. Windows error code 52 notes that it cannot verify the digital signature of the driver. Did any of you have a similar problem?


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## Claude

Do you have the latest firmware (6.61) and driver (3.34) installed?
  
 Driver is here: http://www.m2tech.biz/it/hiface2.html


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## Xennon

yes I have both and the driver was not signed according to my Win10. I temporarily turned off the driver-signature enforcement of Windows, and it works fine now. Still, it is weird that an official driver has this problem. Plus, apparently many of you do not have an issue with the driver.


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## Claude

The new Windows 10 Creators Update includes USB 2.0 Audio support. 
  
 After upgrading, I uninstalled the M2Tech driver. When manually searching for hardware changes, the new Windows driver was installed automatically.
  
 I've only played a few minutes of 24/96 PCM files (WASAPI event mode in Foobar2000), it worked fine.
  
 I'll leave to others do do a sound comparison between the drivers.


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## Claude

I switched back to the M2Tech driver.
  
 The reason is that with the Microsoft USB 2.0 Audio driver, in Foobar2000, the visualisations don't work and the progress bar is stuck


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## Xennon

Thanks a lot for the feedback.
 One thing I keep wondering is how come I am able to control the volume from my computer. Should not it be impossible to change the volume from the computer, as long as I use a digital USB/SPDIF output?


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## Pilotter

I use the Hiface TWO together with a powered USB hub. My question is should I buy the AQVOX PS or go for the Schiit EITR as an all in one solution? Has anyone tested the EITR in comparison with the Hiface?


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