# (NEW) FiiO E12A for IEMs!



## TripBitShooter

FiiO Singapore has announced the imminent launch of the FiiO E12A for IEMs on its facebook page!


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## reihead

Already up on the Fiio Website, very interesting....
  
 http://www.fiio.net/products/index.aspx?ID=100000060421524&MenuID=105026001
  
 I just noticed a mistype on the page for the original E12 @JamesFiiO @Joe
  
Dimensions:
124×_*66.5*_×14.5(mm)
  
 But on the measure photo it states *65.5*


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## kino lau

I'm happy that I saw this before pulling the trigger on an E12. There's no way I could justify going into the DIY so I'm hoping that this should be a nice step for IEM's. I've read more about Fiio than I've even had time to listen to, but I'm optimistically hopeful for something awesome.


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## palermo

Glad what I found, retail price $180 is very good bargain.
 http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/fiio-e12a-mont-blance-portable-headphone-amplifier-iem-special-edition-2014-new.html


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## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

wait what does it mean by balanced? 3.5mm trrs jack like hifimans?


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## TripBitShooter

balanced means 2 separate cables for the left and right channels to the headphone, to reduce stereo crosstalk. Some headphone amps support this, but im not too sure about the E12A.


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## wigglepuff

hows the muses02 compared to other opamps? or compare this to the e11k?
  
 this isn't banaced, just standard stereo out. check the website for spec info.


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## TripBitShooter

it will be better than the E11k for sure (there have been some comparisons between the E12 and E11k, and this is supposed to be an improvement on the E12)

i dont know much about the E12DIY, but fiio basically put the favourite E12DIY combo (which consists of the muse02) into the E12A


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## DivergeUnify

Can someone dissect what differentiates this from the former version, and if there will somehow be a sound quality decrease if I use say a pair of Brainwavz HM5 with this versus the regular E12?


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## wigglepuff

but the muses02 is inferior to the 01 right?


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## TripBitShooter

Hmmm... I really do not know about all this.Maybe you could go over to the FiiO E12DIY thread and ask the people there.


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## BALANCEATOR

divergeunify said:


> Can someone dissect what differentiates this from the former version, and if there will somehow be a sound quality decrease if I use say a pair of Brainwavz HM5 with this versus the regular E12?


 
  
 It would be interesting to know the differences with the previous Fiio E12.

 What the balanced outputs, if take as Hifiman. Would function with Fiio X3 using a base?

 See if they come out more details on this new portable amp.


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## wigglepuff

btw how much will this retail, $180-$200 like the e12DIY? isn't it a bit too much for just the unit minus all the opamps and buf that came with the DIY version?
  
 if james reads this, suggestion: change the muses 02 to the muses 01 + LME49600 setup.  no wait, someone said in the opamp forum that they sound the same? really?


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## pekingduck

Not sure about other places but in China it is retailed for RMB 998 or USD $163.


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## fnkcow

Subbed


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## kino lau

This is the side by side comparison, though some aggregate values are different so specs are not as clear cut without taking out your calculator. Sorry for the print screen size


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## twister6

It's already available on Miccastore.com (FiiO official US distributor): http://www.miccastore.com/fiio-e12a-mont-blanc-iem-edition-portable-headphone-amplifier-p-128.html and also should be available on Amazon.
  
 Miccastore has it for $159.99 with free economy shipping!


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## Joe Bloggs

I've listened to the E12 and the E12A side by side and I must say the E12A definitely fits the bill as an improved model for driving IEMs. The E12 hissed and sounded a bit muddy with my CIEMs while the E12A had a black background as advertised and sounded more detailed. The E12A still has a high gain option and drove the HD650 handily in that setting. The E12 could drive the HE5 in a pinch though...


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## TripBitShooter

^proves that a company which listens to consumers a lot will definitely reap the rewards of making a better product and having even more consumers appreciate it.


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## WitzyZed

Definitely interested in getting one of these.
My rev 2 E12 certainly gets the job done, but that titanium paint job & +8 hr improvement on battery life is something else!
+my headphones are only 32 ohm anyways.

anyone got any guesses as to how much I should sell my E12 on here for?
(Be reasonable)
If it was ~$129 new would $80 seem fair?
minor scuffs on edges?
maybe $75?

(Edit: may have buyer)

I'll try looking further in the for sale threads to see what others have charged.


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## palermo

I just order Fiio X1. All said it in warm side and also my phone, SD2. I don't know either I need amp or not but this appealing me due to Muses02 within. Moreover this amp still not came to my country.


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## kino lau

I just pulled the trigger on one of these. I can't wait for it to get here...


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## WitzyZed

^ looking forward to impressions, especially with that x5!


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## lookingforIEMs

witzyzed said:


> ^ looking forward to impressions, especially with that x5!






+1.

Looking at either this or P51 mustang


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## yugopotamia

subbed, really interested on these. as I like the E12 sound but hiss a lot with multi BA IEMs I have.


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## yugopotamia

woops double post


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## QBoQBo

kino lau said:


> I just pulled the trigger on one of these. I can't wait for it to get here...


 
 Same here, I also pulled the trigger on the E12A. Even though I got the E12 already, I need a good amp to drive my CIEM and most importantly good dynamic IEMs. The high output on the E12 was a good match for my K701, but the soundstage made my IEM sounding worse than just the X5 alone.

 For a while, I was looking for another affordable good quality IEM's amp. Several options came to my mind, including Vorzuge Pure II, Cayin C5, or even e11k.
 Nonetheless, my money went to fiio again because they listen to consumers for what they need. 

 BTW, three listed above are all great, but they are either expensive, not as detailed, or inconvenient (to me).


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## kino lau

Well one tracking site has no updates since last night and another says Out For Delivery. I'm just reminding myself to breath right now...lol


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## kino lau

I'm so excited that I finally get to update my signature! Thoughts and comments after I've had a chance to play for a while...


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## Meikelathome

I just got it some days ago in Beijing, together with Shure SE535 it sound just right. More open, more details and space. Bass is in in both positions good and deep.
 Congrats to Fiio.


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## Spionner

Hi, anyone have compared this to the cayin c5 i read the c5 is one of those hidden jewels


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## kino lau

spionner said:


> Hi, anyone have compared this to the cayin c5 i read the c5 is one of those hidden jewels


 
 Since this set-up just hit the streets outside of the E12DIY combinations, you might get a better answer from the E12DIY crowd. Too soon to compare apples and oranges.


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## yugopotamia

hows the hiss with multi-BA IEM??


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## punish

Hi everyone,
  
 I've got a pair of ortofon e-q5's for travel, and use my sony xperia z1 for music (flac + 320 only).
  
 I notice that straight out of my phone, there is some hiss. I also need to turn up the volume a fair bit on the phone to get to a desirable level of listening.
  
 I was wondering whether this product would benefit these issues plaguing my current set-up. Would these issues be solved, and on a more fundamental level, is this product compatible with phone use?
  
 Appreciate your responses.


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## TripBitShooter

it would be compatible, but without a line out, which bypasses the internal phone amp, you are basically double amping a bad signal, so the hiss may still be there.


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## Preben

Hey all. Gotta ask is this a limited edition or will they keep producing Them ??
Thanks all


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## kino lau

Absolutely LE...for the sake of sales and marketing. Until it's not...lol


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## punish

tripbitshooter said:


> it would be compatible, but without a line out, which bypasses the internal phone amp, you are basically double amping a bad signal, so the hiss may still be there.


 
  
 hmmm... I'm not very good with these technical aspects (as I generally just use my ears to test things), but looking online, it appears my phone supports usb OTG, with people saying they use their dac/amp combo through USB. Does this still fail to bypass the internal dac/amp?


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## lookingforIEMs

tripbitshooter said:


> it would be compatible, but without a line out, which bypasses the internal phone amp, you are basically double amping a bad signal, so the hiss may still be there.




Bro, you in SG right? Any where to demo this?


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## TripBitShooter

@punish USB OTG would bypass both the internal DAC and amp, but the E12A is just an amp.

@lookingforIEMs the E12A is on for sale at store.treoo.com and also their stores, but im not too sure whether they have demo units. Btw, i also found out the overcharge quite a bit on some products, so be careful


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## lookingforIEMs

tripbitshooter said:


> @punish USB OTG would bypass both the internal DAC and amp, but the E12A is just an amp.
> 
> @lookingforIEMs the E12A is on for sale at store.treoo.com and also their stores, but im not too sure whether they have demo units. Btw, i also found out the overcharge quite a bit on some products, so be careful





I don't think I'll ever buy from them haha... overpriced... worse than Jaben IMO. I'd rather buy from E1.. Usually they're not too overpriced. Or I try buy from distro shop


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## TripBitShooter

lookingforiems said:


> I don't think I'll ever buy from them haha... overpriced... worse than Jaben IMO. I'd rather buy from E1.. Usually they're not too overpriced. Or I try buy from distro shop



I cannot believe Jaben sells the bravo audio ocean for SGD $239.


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## lookingforIEMs

tripbitshooter said:


> I cannot believe Jaben sells the bravo audio ocean for SGD $239.





I cannot believe they are still alive. Period.


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## TripBitShooter

Ikr


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## twister6

spionner said:


> Hi, anyone have compared this to the cayin c5 i read the c5 is one of those hidden jewels


 
  
 I will, very soon


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## Spionner

QuoteI  





twister6 said:


> I will, very soon


 
 Cool im waiting for u


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## nmatheis

How high can you crank E12A's volume pot before getting too loud out of X5's LO with sensitive, low resistance IEM? 25%? 50%? Thanks!


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## twister6

nmatheis said:


> How high can you crank E12A's volume pot before getting too loud out of X5's LO with sensitive, low resistance IEM? 25%? 50%? Thanks!


 
  
 If you referring this question to me, I don't have E12A yet.  Just been informed that I should get a review sample soon.  Would definitely be an interesting comparison to C5, and also to it's "younger sibling" E11k.  For sure will use X5 for testing.


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## nmatheis

Not referring to you in particular twister6 but will definitely check out your review once it's up. IIRC kino lau also has X5 + E12A and should be able to help answer this.


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## BrokenStevie

Just wanted to jump in & say I ordered the E12A as soon as I heard about the Muses. I love my E12DIY but it doesn't come with the Muse opamps & I didn't want to take the chance of getting 'fake' ones, plus the E12A isn't priced that much over what buying 2 new Muses would be. Micca was selling them for $169 total with free shipping. I ordered mine on Saturday & had it on Monday! Awesome. I thought the DIY sounded nice, but the E12A sounds sweet. Love it. I'm using it on the X5 as it's my favorite player for now. Fiio just keeps coming up with new and better ways for me to spend my money. But I was really impressed with the low price for such a quality amp. Thanks again, Fiio!


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## 3stun

brokenstevie said:


> Just wanted to jump in & say I ordered the E12A as soon as I heard about the Muses. I love my E12DIY but it doesn't come with the Muse opamps & I didn't want to take the chance of getting 'fake' ones, plus the E12A isn't priced that much over what buying 2 new Muses would be. Micca was selling them for $169 total with free shipping. I ordered mine on Saturday & had it on Monday! Awesome. I thought the DIY sounded nice, but the E12A sounds sweet. Love it. I'm using it on the X5 as it's my favorite player for now. Fiio just keeps coming up with new and better ways for me to spend my money. But I was really impressed with the low price for such a quality amp. Thanks again, Fiio!


 
 Are you saying E12A sounds better that E12 DIY equipped with Muses?


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## kino lau

nmatheis said:


> How high can you crank E12A's volume pot before getting too loud out of X5's LO with sensitive, low resistance IEM? 25%? 50%? Thanks!


 

 I haven't really done any "real" tests...but 50% or 12:00 with the 12A's gain on Low and about 10:00-10:30 with the gain on High. Like I said...no "reference tests", but I do recall looking at the pot the first day I received the amp. It wasn't so much "too loud" as it was as high as I wanted to listen at the time...which was probably Very Loud since I was in "justifying my purchase" mode.
  
 I've been busy with school work these last couple of days and haven't been using headphones with the X5, instead using the coax out into my home system. So no real updates on the E12A except that "I Like It"! I'll have more to say after I get my assignments are done or when my silver litz cables arrive...which ever comes first.


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## nmatheis

That sounds promising! Much more fine-grained volume control and reduced risk of channel imbalance at lower listening levels. Looking forward to more impressions of these. 

And was calling E12A "limited edition" serious? If so, I might pull the trigger now and sell off a couple less used amps...


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## Mr Trev

Look forward to some more reviews/comparisons too. Been wait to hear more bout this one for a bit now.....
@nmatheis From what I've read this one isn't supposed to be "limited".


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## kino lau

"Limited Edition" is a great marketing ploy to get people to snatch up the first builds. But honestly...if you have a product that's targeted at one particular user group (IEM's) and it's selling well, it wouldn't make any sense not to continue building them. I think Fiio nailed it with this design. If this model didn't come out when it did, I'd be pulling my hair out playing with the DIY trying to decide what combination I liked best. With the E12A for the IEM crowd, the E12DIY for the tweekers and the E12 for those with hard to drive headphones, no desire or need to swap out parts and a limited budget, they've covered 3 specific user groups covered with one chassis build...at least in the DAP category. Also...with enough difference between the 3 models, it should eliminate a lot of arguing about which is better than the other. Each "should be" Best for the Application it's being used in.


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## Mr Trev

I did pass on an opportunity to get a 2nd hand DIY when I heard bout this. I really don't have any really hard to drive phones (at the moment anyways), and I'm not really sure how much tweaking I'd get into (as noted earlier those muses opamps aren't cheap). This could be a perfect way to upgrade the sound of my X3, just need to see some more opinions, and for retailers here to get some in stock (unfortunately the $Cdn has taken a plunge so it's probably gonna cost a bit more than I was hoping)


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## sovereignty68

3stun said:


> Are you saying E12A sounds better that E12 DIY equipped with Muses?


 
 I believe E12A sounds better than E12DIYs that equipped with stock oamps. If E12DIY equipped with Muses, it would sound just about the same as E12A. My E12DIY just died on me and I am considering E12A as replacement. E12A has bigger battery after all, 1500mah vs 880mah. I'm just not sure if I like Muses02 better than Muses01.


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## ErikV55

qboqbo said:


> Same here, I also pulled the trigger on the E12A. Even though I got the E12 already, I need a good amp to drive my CIEM and most importantly good dynamic IEMs. The high output on the E12 was a good match for my K701, but the soundstage made my IEM sounding worse than just the X5 alone.
> 
> For a while, I was looking for another affordable good quality IEM's amp. Several options came to my mind, including Vorzuge Pure II, Cayin C5, or even e11k.
> Nonetheless, my money went to fiio again because they listen to consumers for what they need.
> ...



 



Be sure to give impressions w/ your X5 and V6


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## kino lau

OK...so last night was the first time that I've actually spent some time listening with the E12A. The question had been asked about at what point the output became too loud, which I didn't think was even possible. Starting songs from scratch and increasing volume in the dark and checking the pot position after the fact...50% or 12:00 was consistent. That was with the X5 and the 12A gains both set on Low. Regardless of what the starting volume was whether 0 or 50%...the background was completely black. I've put the amp on the shelf and I'm going to spend sometime really pushing the Low gain volume on the X5 for a couple of days. Then I'll have a better reference as to the actual benefit of using any type of amp with at least the X5 since that all I have to work with.


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## nmatheis

Thanks for checking the volume! IMHO, the benefit of using an amp with the X5 is improved amp stage as well as alternate sound signature.


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## nmatheis

Oh and btw, I ordered one of these for the hell of it


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## twister6

Got mine yesterday as well, from Tinbel on Amazon (they are an authorized FiiO dealer).  Will try to get to it over the weekend to test it out and compare against C5 and E11k.


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## Mr Trev

twister6 said:


> Got mine yesterday as well, from Tinbel on Amazon (they are an authorized FiiO dealer).  Will try to get to it over the weekend to test it out and compare against C5 and E11k.


 
 Awesome. Can't wait to hear what you think.


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## kino lau

nmatheis said:


> Oh and btw, I ordered one of these for the hell of it


 
 How could you Not?


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## nmatheis

kino lau said:


> How could you Not?




I know, I know... 

My name is Nikolaus, and I've got a problem


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## kino lau

nmatheis said:


> I know, I know...
> 
> My name is Nikolaus, and I've got a problem


 
 I just posted one of my 4 pairs of Klipsch Heresy's on craigslist to recover from my reckless spending over the past several weeks...lol


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## nmatheis

Yeah, I need to clean my IEM closet...


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## brahmsky

mr trev said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > Got mine yesterday as well, from Tinbel on Amazon (they are an authorized FiiO dealer).  Will try to get to it over the weekend to test it out and compare against C5 and E11k.
> ...



Waiting for your comparation..


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## Toro

When you order the 12a, you better order the L16 too. It makes the sound a lot better than L2 / L8.


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## kino lau

toro said:


> When you order the 12a, you better order the L16 too. It makes the sound a lot better than L2 / L8.


 
 I was going to say just order the H6 stacker and kill two birds with one stone since the L16 comes with it. But I forget that not everybody ordering the 12A is going to be matching it to an X5.


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## QBoQBo

erikv55 said:


> qboqbo said:
> 
> 
> > Same here, I also pulled the trigger on the E12A. Even though I got the E12 already, I need a good amp to drive my CIEM and most importantly good dynamic IEMs. The high output on the E12 was a good match for my K701, but the soundstage made my IEM sounding worse than just the X5 alone.
> ...


 

 You should not need a E12A for your V6. X5 has more than enough amplification for the V6 even at low gain since they are very efficient at 116db/mw. Passing through an amp degrades the signal source as an analog cable is used in between. Additionally, balanced armature tends to create distortion with more amplification.

 Anyway, I will update you on how it sounds on my IE80 because German dynamics are really hard to drive nicely.


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## kino lau

qboqbo said:


> You should not need a E12A for your V6. X5 has more than enough amplification for the V6 even at low gain since they are very efficient at 116db/mw. Passing through an amp degrades the signal source as an analog cable is used in between. Additionally, balanced armature tends to create distortion with more amplification.
> 
> Anyway, I will update you on how it sounds on my IE80 because German dynamics are really hard to drive nicely.


 
  
 The V6 is rated at 116db but the IE80's are rated at 125db which is significantly more efficient than the V6 = higher db/output at = mw's. My 846's (114 dB SPL/mW) have an entirely different sound profile when switching from the X5 alone to running through the 12A. 114db vs 116db isn't that big of a difference in sensitivity. At 125db I would think that you could just about breath on them and they would be screaming. It's definitely a good argument for *NOT* needing an external amp.


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## QBoQBo

kino lau said:


> The V6 is rated at 116db but the IE80's are rated at 125db which is significantly more efficient than the V6 = higher db/output at = mw's. My 846's (114 dB SPL/mW) have an entirely different sound profile when switching from the X5 alone to running through the 12A. 114db vs 116db isn't that big of a difference in sensitivity. At 125db I would think that you could just about breath on them and they would be screaming. It's definitely a good argument for *NOT* needing an external amp.


 
 Sigh....cant believe _[Mod Edit: Don't be rude please]_.
 Sennheiser don't use db/mw instead they use db/V.

 Sensitivity makes a huge difference than impedance.

 Please do not compare armature with a dynamic driver if you have not figured out the difference between db/mw versus db/V.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't even believed I saw that "at 125db which is significantly more efficient than the V6 = higher db/output" from a 846 owner. I guess shure suits you better at that price point.


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## Toro

Really depend on what kind of cables you are using. I have the E12, E12A and Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Duet. I am using a 7N Copper, 8wires and rhodium plated conductor. It won't degrade the signal. For my AKG K3003i, the E12A is a lot better than E12.  Based on my ears, I think Fiio did an excellent job on E12A. The floor noise is so.....low.  Honestly, it so close to the performance with my AlgoRhythm Duet. The only difference I found it, with the Duet, it sounds a little bit more warm. With E12A, it sounds a little bit more forward and clear. Just depend on your music, and pick the right Amp. Enjoy.


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## kino lau

qboqbo said:


> Sigh....cant believe so many n00bs are on headfi commenting -.- Same thing happened when I posted on the DX90 forum.
> Sennheiser don't use db/mw instead they use db/V.
> 
> Sensitivity makes a huge difference than impedance.
> ...


 
 Thank you pointing out an incorrect assumption. Since you are much more astute on these differences, perhaps you explain how efficiency is calculated when using a db/V instead of db/mw?
 If Sennheiser is publishing specs as 125db/V then what would be the conversion to Xdb/mw? Or vice versa, 114db/mw conversion to Xdb/V. Voltage is a component of Watts (I x E = W (P)...or in this case ma x mv = mw (P)) Decibels are a sound pressure measurement regardless of the power generated to produce them. So I'm hoping that you can explain, so that I might be better able to understand and not be so ignorant in the future. As far as my being a 846 owner and not understanding the difference...I don't need to understand the difference. I stick my IEM's in my ears and adjust volume accordingly. There's no need for me to understand any more than Sounds Good...or Sounds like Crap. I have a lot of hobbies and a lot of expensive toys. I have no idea how any of them work.


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## twister6

^ and I would like to add, people join Head-fi community to share and to learn; there is no need for a snobby condescending tone putting other people down.  Instead, please reply and explain in a more civilized and friendly way for others to benefit from it.


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## nmatheis

QBoQBo: Boo! Educating politely is fine. Correcting rudely isn't cool, dude. Play nice!


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## kino lau

Well on the bright side...I just looked up the difference between balanced armature and dynamic drivers and better understand at least that much now. Can't say that knowing the difference will cause me to enjoy my IEM's any more or less. But when my silver litz cable shows up...THEN...I'll enjoy my entire rig a lot more. I won't know why...but I know I'm going to enjoy the heck out of it. I think it's probably because of how cool the cable looks...


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## nmatheis

Then you'll just fire up the ever-present "do cables matter" debate, lol


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## yugopotamia

I would like to see E12 come up with balanced output, kubicon preferred.


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## 3ternalDr4gon

Forgive this stupid question, but are there any cons to choosing this as opposed to the regular E12 from a full sized can perspective?


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## audioxxx

Depends on the cans, if there efficient than there's no problem, if the cans are pigs to drive and require heaps of power than the e12 would have suited. 
 I think for the majority of headphones this would be fine, especially if their designed for general usage.


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## ErikV55

qboqbo said:


> You should not need a E12A for your V6. X5 has more than enough amplification for the V6 even at low gain since they are very efficient at 116db/mw. Passing through an amp degrades the signal source as an analog cable is used in between. Additionally, balanced armature tends to create distortion with more amplification.
> 
> Anyway, I will update you on how it sounds on my IE80 because German dynamics are really hard to drive nicely.



 



Yes I know  My sarcasm is hard to detect through the interwebs  But I would be interested in how it preforms with your phones that require it


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## twister6

audioxxx said:


> Depends on the cans, if there efficient than there's no problem, if the cans are pigs to drive and require heaps of power than the e12 would have suited.
> I think for the majority of headphones this would be fine, especially if their designed for general usage.


 
  
 True that!  In terms of power, a lot of the new headphones designed efficiently to be driven straight from your smartphone.  So in terms of power, too much will be an overkill in many cases.
  
 But as I'm noticing now, being relatively new to amp scene, portable headphone amps are not just about the power or being able to drive high impedance cans but rather a synergy of pairing them up with different sources and different drivers.  I'm not a fan of double amping; that is something you might want to do on Clip+ or whatever since little mp3 players don't have enough power.   To appreciate a quality of portable headphone amp, you need to have a capable DAP with LO (even $99 X1 will do) and pair it up with different external portable amps to find a sound signature you enjoy.
  
 In a very brief summary, E12A (and I don't have E12 or E12DIY for comparison) is relatively neutral amp with a sound sig more toward a brighter side.  Paired up with X5 out of LO and in comparison to direct HO output of X5, the sound is more detailed, more textured, wider, and bass is tighter.  What surprised me the most is how it compares to Cayin C5.  I thought these will be competing against each other since they are in the same price bracket, as well as similar footprint and functionality, but instead they are complementing each other with noticeable differences to the point where instead of choosing one or the other, you want to keep both for different sound signature.  For example, C5 soundstage is wider/deeper in comparison to E12A.  E12A sound more neutral while C5 sounds warmer with a noticeable sound coloration.  Both have a solid black background.  To my ears E12A has a slightly better separation/layering and a more detailed sound due ot it's more neutral sound signature.  Furthermore, C5 bass boost affects both sub-bass and mid-bass, while E12A mostly sub-bass.  Also, E12A battery life is probably close to double of C5.  And obviously, C5 is more universal to drive anything and everything under the sun (hopefully ), while E12A is designed specifically for more efficient IEMs in mind.
  
 Both are great amps with a different exterior and interior personalities


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## nmatheis

I like what I'm hearing - especially about bass boost. I really dislike Cayin C5's bass boost. It adds far too much mid-bass for me. Sounds like E12A's bass boost will be more to my liking.


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## twister6

With or without HS6 stack up kit, my favorite combo at the current moment with X5/E12A/IM03:


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## Mr Trev

Hmmm. Seems like the e12a could make my x3 (and ears) pretty happy.
 Thanks for the quick review.


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## twister6

OK, full review of E12A is up: http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-e12a-mont-blanc-portable-headphone-amplifier-for-iem-special-edition/reviews/11803


----------



## audioxxx

Great review, interesting read.


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

Ditto, I'm glad I pulled the trigger on these. They come in on Weds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I should probably be asking a FiiO rep, but on their website (as well as your review), it is mentioned that the recommended headphone impedance is 150 ohms. However, on the information card it recommends up to 300 ohms. Based on your review, do you suspect it's just a typo on the card (or pamphlet, whichever it is)


----------



## Boffy

Hmmmm.... I can't decide between E12A, PHA-1, or JDS Labs C5. Anyone have a comparison between E12A and PHA-1 or JDS Labs C5?


----------



## tjz1984

Woah, I nearly bought the E12 before the E12A came out. Now I gotta find some time to audition both and get the one that is better, Cheers guys!!!


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

Same here. I'm extremely lucky I went to fiio's website and stumbled across it when deciding between the e12 and e18


----------



## lookingforIEMs

boffy said:


> Hmmmm.... I can't decide between E12A, PHA-1, or JDS Labs C5. Anyone have a comparison between E12A and PHA-1 or JDS Labs C5?






Pha-1 has damned good clarity and a clean sound... C5 just sounded more lean and underwhelming. Only prob with pha-1 is that it's limited to 24/96 files iirc. Can't play 24/192 vinyl.


That said why not check out the new denon dac amp? I think it's called DA10. Also, audio tech are releasing a dac amp too apparently.


----------



## TripBitShooter

lookingforiems said:


> Pha-1 has damned good clarity and a clean sound... C5 just sounded more lean and underwhelming. Only prob with pha-1 is that it's limited to 24/96 files iirc. Can't play 24/192 vinyl.
> 
> 
> That said why not check out the new denon dac amp? I think it's called DA10. Also, audio tech are releasing a dac amp too apparently.



Audio technica releasing a new amp? Cool! And the PHA-1 costs a lot more than the C5 actually..


----------



## nmatheis

My E12A's out for delivery


----------



## pearvin

Has anyone compare E12A with Cayin c5?


----------



## nmatheis

Will be able to soon


----------



## twister6

pearvin said:


> Has anyone compare E12A with Cayin c5?


 
  
 Did you read my review?  It's all there, even with pictures.  http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-e12a-mont-blanc-portable-headphone-amplifier-for-iem-special-edition/reviews/11803


----------



## nmatheis

My expectation bias is strong, though. I'm fully expecting to prefer the E12A. Cayin C5 is nice but has too much power for IEM I use at my preferred listening levels. C5's bass boost is also more of a "warmth boost", IMHO. Descriptions of E12A's bass boost being mostly in sub-bass with minimal mid-bass boost sounds much more like what I'm looking for.


----------



## pearvin

twister6 said:


> Did you read my review?  It's all there, even with pictures.  http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-e12a-mont-blanc-portable-headphone-amplifier-for-iem-special-edition/reviews/11803



@*twister6*
Great input. Very detail.
 


nmatheis said:


> My expectation bias is strong, though. I'm fully expecting to prefer the E12A. Cayin C5 is nice but has too much power for IEM I use at my preferred listening levels. C5's bass boost is also more of a "warmth boost", IMHO. Descriptions of E12A's bass boost being mostly in sub-bass with minimal mid-bass boost sounds much more like what I'm looking for.



@*nmatheis*
Thanks for the quick impression too. I guess same input with twister on bass boost.
Now I am more curious how it will compare to CL Picollo  since both are speciallize for IEM's
I know it is silly to compare given it is twice the price.


----------



## nmatheis

Bummer. Looks like the wrong Zip Code was used fort E12A, so I wont be receiving it today after all.


----------



## raybone0566

penon audio has this listed for $165.00 on their website. takes about two weeks to ship to the states.


----------



## TripBitShooter

Singapore's store.treoo.com site sells it for SGD 70 more than the original price.


----------



## kino lau

Ordered mine through Amazon and had it in 2...3 days tops.


----------



## violencer

can anyone compare X5+UE900 vs X5+E12A+UE900?


----------



## twister6

^ it would be no different than my comparison with im03 in the same setup, so my comments from e12a review are still valid.


----------



## violencer

ok 
 Currently, I Interested on 2 things, how much X5+E12A+UE 900 is bright, any sibilants?
 Does the bass switch fix UE900's bass problem?
  
*twister6*, which combo do you prefer more for UE900/UE900s, X5+E12A or X5+C5?


----------



## twister6

violencer said:


> ok
> Currently, I Interested on 2 things, how much X5+E12A+UE 900 is bright, any sibilants?
> Does the bass switch fix UE900's bass problem?
> 
> *twister6*, which combo do you prefer more for UE900/UE900s, X5+E12A or X5+C5?


 
  
 It might take a little while before I get to test it, working on something else now.  But in general, UE900/900s is mid-forward bright IEMs so if you want to keep that brightness tamed, you need to go with a warmer amp which is C5.  Plus, I always felt UE900 lacking in bass, so bass boost of C5 (sub and mid-bass) will make a better impact.  But on the other side, E12A pairs up better with X5 than C5/X5.  FiiO knows how to gel their products together to create the best synergy   Tough call, but in my opinion something like IM03 or W40 will pair up better with E12A while UE900 might be better off with C5.


----------



## nmatheis

Tried Altone and DGS100 with X5->E12A so far. Makes Altone clear and punchy. Tames DGS100 mid-bass bloat. Volume control isn't as fine-grained as I'd hoped, however. I can't go to 12 o'clock for fear of my eardrums imploding


----------



## kino lau

nmatheis said:


> I can't go to 12 o'clock for fear of my eardrums imploding


 
 Same here, though I haven't felt the need to push it as much. I think that in general ANY amps realistically usable power is going to max out between 50 - 67%. After that you're just inviting distortion or dain bramage...whichever comes first.


----------



## Shawn71

FiiO's official AliExpress store......enjoy!

 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1473108?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email


----------



## Cachicamo

Hi guys,
 I saw the E12A doesn't have crossfeed while the E12 does. Would I miss that? I have the X5 with Miracle CIEM and I'd like to get one of the two amps.
 Thanks


----------



## nmatheis

If you listen to a lot of older music with very distinct stereo separation (like guitar only on left channel, bass only on right channel, drums and singer in middle) you might like the E12's crossfeed. Otherwise you probably won't miss it.


----------



## Shawn71

nmatheis said:


> If you listen to a lot of older music with very distinct stereo separation (like guitar only on left channel, bass only on right channel, drums and singer in middle) you might like the E12's crossfeed. Otherwise you probably won't miss it.




Yeah I hardly use it unless its of 60's music for eg:, but yet I prefer to listen with its original tho....


----------



## Cachicamo

nmatheis said:


> If you listen to a lot of older music with very distinct stereo separation (like guitar only on left channel, bass only on right channel, drums and singer in middle) you might like the E12's crossfeed. Otherwise you probably won't miss it.


 

 So if the crossfeed is not needed I would be better off with the E12A? As it is built for IEM's.


----------



## TripBitShooter

It has an improved selection of op amps and amps, and it is fully able to drive full size cans when needed with a high gain option.


----------



## Shawn71

cachicamo said:


> So if the crossfeed is not needed I would be better off with the E12A? As it is built for IEM's.




But if you have/might purchase full size headphones E12 can drive them with ease (upto recommended 300ohms), so futurisic and some even tried with 600ohms and its pretty ok.....Are you not satisfied with X5 paired with your miracle CIEM?....It has more than enough juice already......


----------



## Shawn71

Its close to 16ohm and 114db spl.....


----------



## QBoQBo

shawn71 said:


> But if you have/might purchase full size headphones E12 can drive them with ease (upto recommended 300ohms), so futurisic and some even tried with 600ohms and its pretty ok.....Are you not satisfied with X5 paired with your miracle CIEM?....It has more than enough juice already......


 

 Ikr, I just got my E12A yesterday, and the reason for my initial purchase was not intended for my 1964 V6 CIEM but rather for my IE80. I tried it yesterday. My IE80 sounded just better with the Muse Amp with better highs and separation. Before, the highs on the IE80 were overtaken by the slight bass hump. Now, I can really feel the real joy of my IE80.

 I was actually planning to sell my IE80 to save some money, but I change my mind now.

 I am pleased that the E12A has a negligent noise floor and was able to improve the sound quality of my IE80 without sacrificing details and soundstage (unlike the normal E12)

 On the other hand, I believe that the normal E12 is still more suitable for big open cans or medium cans with good soundstage due to its higher output and quality on high gain.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also, I've notice the volume knob is stiffer on the E12A (not sure if it's a good thing), but I will wait to see what it can do after some burn-in


----------



## nmatheis

I just wish the low gain setting on E12A was *lower*, so I could get more *fine-grained volume control*...


----------



## kino lau

nmatheis said:


> I just wish the low gain setting on E12A was *lower*, so I could get more *fine-grained volume control*...


 
 So if I understand correctly, would you say that the E12A LG output is about 10-20% lower than the E12? Based on what "I've read" some have stated that the LG output volume on the 12A is only usable to about 20% or 10:00 with IEM's verses 50% or 12:00 with the E12A.


----------



## nmatheis

I haven't used my E12 in awhile and should probably sell it off, so I'd need to get it out and try with same IEM before commenting kino lau. I was hoping to push the volume to 12 o'clock with the E12A with IEM I typically before ear drum implosion occurred use but am closer to 10 o'clock.


----------



## kino lau

nmatheis said:


> I haven't used my E12 in awhile and should probably sell it off, so I'd need to get it out and try with same IEM before commenting @kino lau. I was hoping to push the volume to 12 o'clock with the E12A with IEM I typically before ear drum implosion occurred use but am closer to 10 o'clock.


 
 Just got my silver litz cable in the mail today and 10:00 is right about perfect moderate volume where the sound is forward enough to better appreciate without being Loud (as apposed to LOUD). The real problem, is the stupid dot on the volume knob...it's not the amp at all. Use some paint thinner and get rid of the dot on the knob altogether. Then you can turn the output up as loud as you want and enjoy it for what it is and not be stressed over where the dot is. Actually, do you really believe that where Fiio is doing it's manufacturing that there isn't some worker with a bad attitude thinking "I gonna get that big nose round eye good. I put his dot at 8:00 to start instead of 7:00. Round eye go crazy because volume dot not go as high as he want...Ha ha ha haaaa..."
 We're just looking for something to be wrong. *Ditch the Dot!* That's a good new mantra to better enjoying your music. Go forth and spread the word, and bring serenity to all Head-Fier's. That's gonna be my weekend project. Post a picture once you've freed yourself of the Round White Demon...lol


----------



## bowei006

Unboxing Video for those of you that are interested
  
  
  
 Also some pics


----------



## raybone0566

Is the color the same as the e12. I can't really tell from the images I've seen.


----------



## bowei006

raybone0566 said:


> Is the color the same as the e12. I can't really tell from the images I've seen.


 
 The one I got isn't. 
  
 E12 is stealth black with shiny metal
  
 E12A is gray with shiny metal


----------



## raybone0566

bowei006 said:


> The one I got isn't.
> 
> E12 is stealth black with shiny metal
> 
> E12A is gray with shiny metal


I thought it looked different. Thank-you


----------



## Marco Angel

Anyone could compare the E12 vs E12A? i had the E12 and replaced with the E11K, im willing to go back to the big and newest brother =)


----------



## TripBitShooter

Its less noisy, has better details and a blacker background with IEMs. It still has a high gain option to drive full size cans when needed


----------



## raybone0566

the e12a is definitely less noisy, I got mine yesterday. I also find the highs are not as harsh as the e12, is doesn't have the low end punch that the e12 does in my opinion. sound is excellent.


----------



## Marco Angel

raybone0566 said:


> the e12a is definitely less noisy, I got mine yesterday. I also find the highs are not as harsh as the e12, is doesn't have the low end punch that the e12 does in my opinion. sound is excellent.


 
 i do like the bass punch with or without the bass boost on he E12, on this department, how the e12a behaves?


----------



## raybone0566

marco angel said:


> i do like the bass punch with or without the bass boost on he E12, on this department, how the e12a behaves?


On bass boost increases the punch slightly, but it doesn't hit like the e12 does. The detail is is much better. I'm very pleased with it.


----------



## Marco Angel

raybone0566 said:


> On bass boost increases the punch slightly, but it doesn't hit like the e12 does. The detail is is much better. I'm very pleased with it.


 
 Sound quite nice the update, the better details is a plus,
 Comparing the Frec Graphs of the E12 vs E12A, the E12A reaches deeper with the bass boost, how about  this bass extension?
 fortunately my iems (sonys ex600) can manage those deep frecs =)


----------



## Sound Eq

can this drive the audeze lcd2rev2 and how is the bass, does it have bass boost


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

It has bass boost but it's extremely subtle. I don't consider myself a bass head but I keep it on


----------



## TripBitShooter

It probably cannot drive the Audeze's to the best of their abilities. For the Audeze u are gonna need a really powerful amp.


----------



## Shawn71

tripbitshooter said:


> It probably cannot drive the Audeze's to the best of their abilities. For the Audeze u are gonna need a really powerful amp.




Yes and may be E12 cld do the job.......but again its better to check the E12 thread as someone wld be able to clarify.....


----------



## jonyoo

For IEMs huh? Since I can't get the e18 dac to work with my m8, maybe I'll give this one a go till htc figures out a way to fix that usb out priority or until I find a mod to do it for me.


----------



## twister6

jonyoo said:


> For IEMs huh? Since I can't get the e18 dac to work with my m8, maybe I'll give this one a go till htc figures out a way to fix that usb out priority or until I find a mod to do it for me.


 
  
 Maybe this can work for you? http://hifimediy.com/android-dac - then you can connect any amp to it!


----------



## jonyoo

twister6 said:


> Maybe this can work for you? http://hifimediy.com/android-dac - then you can connect any amp to it!


 
 Thanks twister. I actually own another dac like this one and even that doesn't out properly.


----------



## Darthimore

Hello,
  
 I'm currently using Fiio X5 as source, and my headphones are : BeyerDynamic DT880 (32 ohms) for home, and AKG 551 for outdoor
 I also have NOCS NS400 for when I need to travel light, as the AKG is quite big
  
 I'm thinking about upgrading this kit with an amp.
 Of course all of those headphones are already quite well drivent by the X5 alone
 However I'm wondering what kind of quality improvement I would benefit from an E12A with those headphones.
  
 I do like wide soundstage (hence the AKG for portable use)
 If I buy an amp, I would like it to be portable as I like being able to listen to music in any room, or in my garden, or on the go.
  
 I know this amp is supposed to be best matched with IEM, but since my headphones are low impedance, I'd favour precision and soundstage more than raw power.
  
 I still have time to think about it, since it's not yet available where I live (France)
  
 Maybe for Xmas ^_^
  
 Cheers


----------



## raybone0566

darthimore said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm currently using Fiio X5 as source, and my headphones are : BeyerDynamic DT880 (32 ohms) for home, and AKG 551 for outdoor
> I also have NOCS NS400 for when I need to travel light, as the AKG is quite big
> ...


E12a is cleaner and more detailed sound. Bass boost adds a bit on the low end.


----------



## SabreToothBunny

I placed an order from HK to UK for the Fiio E12a, some two weeks ago. Should be here in another couple of weeks. I pretty much came online looking to BEGIN ordering Christmas presents and within 5mins of receiving an email about the E12a and read the specs, had placed an order. 

I do have a bunch of IEMs, mainly using Westone 3s at the moment with another setup however I've purchased this amp specifically to use with my Ibasso DX50 and Onkyo ES-HF300 headphones which are 32 ohms impedance, so should be plenty easy to drive for the E12a.

The output from the DX50 is more than admirable (especially with some of the custom firmware available) however having paired it with a C&C BH2, amping really does extend the depth and widen the soundstage no end... Then again I also stand apart from claiming to be an audio purist or audiophile; I prefer my music the darker side of neutral. I like metal to crunch, orchestral work to sound massive and Darkwave D'n'B to have sub bass reach rather than midbass thump all with the detail present but not fatiguing and not artificial. I've got a couple of home setups which can do that but in the portable world it's been quite a quest for me to find especially with the lack of availability for comparison in the UK. Getting there though. 

I always liked the look of the original E12 but the mid bass boost was a turn off at the time as was the footprint for the Colorfly C3 I was using. The E12a seems to be much more tuned to the way I prefer in that respect. The Onkyo headphones though not the bassiest, have the most extended sub bass reach of anything I've owned or heard so hoping for a good pairing between these two (three with DX50). Anyhow, I'll post pairing results when it arrives. 

For those of you who haven't seen it yet, there was a review posted a few days ago which also compares the sound to the original E12.

http://headfonics.com/2014/11/the-fiio-e12a-the-iem-amp/

It doesn't go into a lot of detail comparing the soundstage or mids directly so I'll reserve judgement for myself with respect to the verdict (a friend of mine has an E12) but it's the only direct comparison I could find.


----------



## vilhelm44

Got my E12A yesterday and wow! You can definitely hear a difference in the sound. I'm running it with my Sony NWZ-ZX1 and JH13 Pros and everything is a lot cleaner with tight bass and slightly more clarity/detail. The bass boost is subtle but does make a nice difference adding a little weight to the sound. There is absolutely no hiss either, which is a major step up.
  
 I'll be selling my regular E12 now as it's been surpassed in a big way for me by the IEM version. It's like discovering my music all over again!


----------



## Marco Angel

vilhelm44 said:


> Got my E12A yesterday and wow! You can definitely hear a difference in the sound. I'm running it with my Sony NWZ-ZX1 and JH13 Pros and everything is a lot cleaner with tight bass and slightly more clarity/detail. The bass boost is subtle but does make a nice difference adding a little weight to the sound. There is absolutely no hiss either, which is a major step up.
> 
> I'll be selling my regular E12 now as it's been surpassed in a big way for me by the IEM version. It's like discovering my music all over again!


 
 you have made me up my mind, now i will replace my e11k and e12 with the e12a (is for my sonys ex600 monitor sound, my se425, se535 and an senns hd25 sp)
 i use the bass boost on the e12 with my ex600, how does the new bass boost is? comparing the specs graphs fiio gives, it seems the e12a reach deeper, and with my ex600 is quite noticiable at least with the e12.
  
 thanks for the help!!!!


----------



## vilhelm44

marco angel said:


> you have made me up my mind, now i will replace my e11k and e12 with the e12a (is for my sonys ex600 monitor sound, my se425, se535 and an senns hd25 sp)
> i use the bass boost on the e12 with my ex600, how does the new bass boost is? comparing the specs graphs fiio gives, it seems the e12a reach deeper, and with my ex600 is quite noticiable at least with the e12.
> 
> thanks for the help!!!!


 
  
 There is a massive difference to my ears between the E12 and E12A and I think you'll really like it. The new bass boost isn't as impactful, it's very subtle and adds a nice weighty presence. I guess it's the sub bass more than anything else. It doesn't muddy the rest of the spectrum either too as the clarity on the mids is lovely and the highs are nice and sparkly but not tiring.
  
 The E12 sounds a little muddy in comparison. Add to the fact there is zero hiss and you're onto a winner, especially at that price! Let me know what you think when you pick one up.


----------



## TripBitShooter

The E12A has more detail, less noise and a blacker background based on my preliminary impressions


----------



## vilhelm44

Does anyone know if it's possible to get a balanced connector for the headphone out socket on the E12A?


----------



## TripBitShooter

But then the benefits of a balanced connection (better stereo separation and less crosstalk) would be lost as u are still connecting to the normal stereo 3.5mm jack found on the E12A


----------



## vilhelm44

tripbitshooter said:


> But then the benefits of a balanced connection (better stereo separation and less crosstalk) would be lost as u are still connecting to the normal stereo 3.5mm jack found on the E12A


 

 So there is no use in getting a balanced to SE adapter then? Would I have to get an amp that has a balanced out socket for the best results?


----------



## TripBitShooter

Yes u do. I suggest Sony's range of amps. If I'm not wrong their PHA-3 supports balanced, but it is way more expensive than the FiiO.

A balanced connection is all about keeping the sounds for each channel to each channel, and connecting to a normal stereo output will inevitably lead to crosstalk.

BTW, what headphones are u using(the one with the balanced connection)?


----------



## vilhelm44

tripbitshooter said:


> Yes u do. I suggest Sony's range of amps. If I'm not wrong their PHA-3 supports balanced, but it is way more expensive than the FiiO.
> 
> A balanced connection is all about keeping the sounds for each channel to each channel, and connecting to a normal stereo output will inevitably lead to crosstalk.
> 
> BTW, what headphones are u using(the one with the balanced connection)?


 

 Ok, thanks for the info, it's much appreciated. I do have a Sony PHA-2 coming in but I don't think that has a balanced output either. Do you have any recommendations for any that do at a reasonable price/performance like the Fiio? I'm getting a pair of Mr Speakers Alpha Prime headphones.


----------



## TripBitShooter

I don't think there is an amp with a a balanced connection at the same price


----------



## vilhelm44

tripbitshooter said:


> I don't think there is an amp with a a balanced connection at the same price


 
  
 I'll have a look around and do some research at some point. In the meantime I'll enjoy what I have as it is amazing . Thanks for your help.


----------



## TripBitShooter

No problem


----------



## TeddyShot

For the Sennheiser HD 598, which of the two is better, the E12 or E12A? I managed to get an E12 for $100 on Black Friday. I was heavily considering the E12A but it didn't go down form $160. The E12 wont arrive till tommorrow but I've been wondering if the E12A would bring a good improvement over the E12 (for the extra $60), in which case I would return the E12 and buy it.


----------



## TripBitShooter

It has a high gain option so it can still drive bigger cans, not just IEMs. And it is an improvement, with less noise, a blacker background and more detail


----------



## TeddyShot

tripbitshooter said:


> It has a high gain option so it can still drive bigger cans, not just IEMs. And it is an improvement, with less noise, a blacker background and more detail




Is it worth an additional $60 over the E12? I won't be using IEMs with it, just my Sennheiser 598s.


----------



## TripBitShooter

$60 more expensive? What currency? It should only be a bit more expensive.


----------



## TeddyShot

tripbitshooter said:


> $60 more expensive? What currency? It should only be a bit more expensive.




I got the E12 on sale for $100 on Black Friday. E12A did not go on sale, hence the $60. However, I doesn't matter much anymore, I decided to keep a pair of Sennheiser 598s I got on Black Friday. And because of that I purchased a Cayin C5 for $150 Brand New today off Amazon and I plan on returning the E12 (I didn't like it sound much anyway, made the 598s sound more in your head). I think the Cayin C5 and 598 go well together in their style.


----------



## TripBitShooter

The E12 was never known for good soundstage. It was more the intimate, warmer kind of amp. It had TONS of power for something its price though.


----------



## Kerouac

At the moment I use the E12 a lot with my X5 and V6 Stage or RTi1.
 Especcialy with the last one I notice quite some hiss, so I'm on the fence for the E12A.

  
 What I would like to know:
 Does the E12A give a clear upgrade in SQ over the E12 when I use it with iem's?
 How's the soundstage of the E12A compared to the E12, is it noticable wider?
 How's the bass boost on the E12A (I really like what it does on the E12)?
  
 Thanks in advance...


----------



## vilhelm44

kerouac said:


> At the moment I use the E12 a lot with my X5 and V6 Stage or RTi1.
> Especcialy with the last one I notice quite some hiss, so I'm on the fence for the E12A.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It sounds a lot cleaner with slightly more detail to my ears. I get no hiss using my JH13 Pros and I think the sound stage is around the same. The bass boost is not as in your face as the E12, as it is fairly subtle but gives the music some weight in the sub bass.


----------



## twister6

kerouac said:


> At the moment I use the E12 a lot with my X5 and V6 Stage or RTi1.
> Especcialy with the last one I notice quite some hiss, so I'm on the fence for the E12A.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Even someone from FiiO replied back about significant upgrade of E12A from E12, including completely black background.  I can tell you it's dead on!


----------



## kino lau

twister6 said:


> Even someone from FiiO replied back about significant upgrade of E12A from E12, including completely black background.  I can tell you it's dead on!


 
  
 It appears that a lot of folks are on the fence between the E12 and E12A due to added cost. Try to look at it comparing the price difference between the E12 and the E12 DIY. Take away the Op Amps and Buffers that you would most likely never use unless you get bored easily...decrease the output by 50% and you've got an E12A. My 846's pick up pretty nearly every detail. But one of them has never been HISS. If I had anything that produced something even close to resembling a hiss, I'd be pretty ticked off and the gear would go back if I had that option.
 I'll use the home audio analogy. $300 Sony AVR vs $600 Denon AVR (I'm unbiased because I'm using Pioneer)...both have 100 watt output. During the quiet passages with the Sony you always have that perceivable background hiss. During the quiet passages with the Denon you hear dead silence. Same thing...only different


----------



## Aegen

kino lau said:


> It appears that a lot of folks are on the fence between the E12 and E12A due to added cost. Try to look at it comparing the price difference between the E12 and the E12 DIY. Take away the Op Amps and Buffers that you would most likely never use unless you get bored easily...decrease the output by 50% and you've got an E12A. My 846's pick up pretty nearly every detail. But one of them has never been HISS. If I had anything that produced something even close to resembling a hiss, I'd be pretty ticked off and the gear would go back if I had that option.
> I'll use the home audio analogy. $300 Sony AVR vs $600 Denon AVR (I'm unbiased because I'm using Pioneer)...both have 100 watt output. During the quiet passages with the Sony you always have that perceivable background hiss. During the quiet passages with the Denon you hear dead silence. Same thing...only different




So you aren't getting any hiss with the 846+e12?

I also own a 846 and so far the thing has been picking up hiss on everything I have.


----------



## kino lau

I've got the E12A


----------



## Aegen

Ah okay thanks! Good to hear there aren't any hiss on the e12a for the 846. Looks like I'm gonna pick one up as well.


----------



## bowei006

To do balanced output, I believe you need to have two of the same op amps (output buffer) taking in a mono L and R signal and then reconverting it the balanced phase with all the polarity and what not
  
 I don't believe the E12 IEM has this feature even on the inside.
  
 I love how despite the E12 IEM is an IEM edition, that it still has enough oomph to drive everything possible........
  
 The low gain is more sensitive than the E12s sure....but man, does this thing still have enough power to drive some cans.


----------



## palermo

Sorry OOT. Is there any chance FiiO would launch DAC/Amp based on E12A.  
 Actually, I am willing to get one of E12A or iBasso D-Zero MK2. D-Zero that build in DAC (dual W8740) with amp+buffer, is really tempting due to both still under $200.
 Have anyone compare E12A and D-Zero MK2 amp section, please share to us.


----------



## bowei006

palermo said:


> Sorry OOT. Is there any chance FiiO would launch DAC/Amp based on E12A.
> Actually, I am willing to get one of E12A or iBasso D-Zero MK2. D-Zero that build in DAC (dual W8740) with amp+buffer, is really tempting due to both still under $200.
> Have anyone compare E12A and D-Zero MK2 amp section, please share to us.


 
 Yeah 
  
 It's called the E12A + E10K 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Or using their DAP (X5,X3,X1) as a DAC with the E12A
  
 There ya go!


----------



## palermo

bowei006 said:


> Yeah
> 
> It's called the E12A + E10K
> 
> ...


 
 LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I sold my DX90 to get some cash. Currently use X1, just a little mod to get sound I like. I am expect adding E12A will sounds more significant up in term of SQ.


----------



## bowei006

palermo said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was quite surprised by the two together
  
 Whereas the X1 by itself was a bit thick without much spatial ability and a semi boomy bass. The E12 widened the soundstage, gave the mids some more shine, added lots of transparency, and ultimately tamed the bass.
  
 Not bad at all. 
  
 But it still has a bit too much power for some super sensitive IEMs I believe


----------



## 40lb

bowei006 said:


> To do balanced output, I believe you need to have two of the same op amps (output buffer) taking in a mono L and R signal and then reconverting it the balanced phase with all the polarity and what not
> 
> I don't believe the E12 IEM has this feature even on the inside.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've had the E12A for about a few weeks now using it to power mostly my UE900 and other IEMs I have. I know the E12A has enough power to drive larger cans, like bowei00 said, however has anyone used the E12A with larger cans? How was the sound?


----------



## bowei006

40lb said:


> I've had the E12A for about a few weeks now using it to power mostly my UE900 and other IEMs I have. I know the E12A has enough power to drive larger cans, like bowei00 said, however has anyone used the E12A with larger cans? How was the sound?


 
 I used it on my Q701s
  
 Has way more power than I expected for an IEM edition unit. 
  
 Most likely can power a LCD.
  
 Compared to the X1 by itself which, the E12A through LO out on the X1 provided a more layered frequency range, transparency, and a cleaner bass.
  
 Not bad for the price again.
  
  
  
 FiiO devices aren't without fault, but they are too versatile to really put any marks against it below a 4/5 at the lowest which is something that people like me hate. It's like they reverse engineer their devices so that it's not possible to give it a worse score than 'above average'. Kinda funny actually. 
  
 In the case of the E12A, while it doesn't have the transparency and emotion (given through more direct clarity and detail and layering that the E12A may not have as much of compared to a higher unit) the E12A features a sturdy build, highly readilly availbility, and the ability to drive some very large cans.
  
 You can mark it off points for not being as good an amp for $150 as something indie from pro audio in China, but then you factor in the form factor, that most people can buy it easilly, and that you can use it with every headphone known to man while it is charging, and that it looks sick.
  
  
  
 Currently, the E12A is a solid 4.5/5 for me. It's lowest score would be the sound at an above average, but everything else in its utility belt makes the grade higher.
  
  
 Darn you FiiO, if it weren't for your meddling reverse engineering engineers, I could trash on it more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I can't.


----------



## audioxxx

This amp has been putting me in a place with my music I haven't been for a while, 
 its smooth and open tones are amazing, voices and guitar are clear and alive like non of the FiiO amp's I've heard. 
 Well done FiiO, the bass boost had been implemented perfectly, and adds just enough warmth for me to have no need for an equaliser, this is magic; I have nil buyers remorse on this purchase, it's simply a great product. 
It gets my full recommendation 5/5.


----------



## nmatheis

Yes, E12A is a really nice amp for the price, and I don't know why more amp manufacturers don't approach bass boost like Fiio. Cayin C5 got a lot of praise, but it's bass boost was far too broad for my tastes - making the sound sign early warm instead of just adding low-bass punch.


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

Yeah the bass boost on the E12A is really nice. I can't find a good reason to take it off since it doesn't seem to mudd up anything at all


----------



## hakushondaimao

twister6 said:


> Did you read my review?  It's all there, even with pictures.  http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-e12a-mont-blanc-portable-headphone-amplifier-for-iem-special-edition/reviews/11803


 
 Just ordered one of these based on twister6's review and this thread. Was considering the C5, but find this more aesthetically pleasing, like the idea of the tighter bass, and the fact that it's designed for lower powered phones (I'm all IEM plus HD598). Can't wait to get this in my rig!


----------



## Kerouac

Hmmm, the last few posts in this thread makes me wonder if I made the right choice (ordering the Cayin C5) last week Sunday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Sometimes I use my X5+PicoPower+V6Stage and this combination sounds great. Other times I use X5+E12+RTi1 (very analytical iem) which also sounds great, but there is noticable hiss with E12. Because X5+E12+V6S sounds too warm and not detailled enough to my ears and X5+PP+RTi1 sounds too bright, I've ordered the C5.
 I also chose the C5 because I've read that it has a wider soundstage and that it can drive my LCD2 easily.
  
 Maybe later on the line I will sell my E12 or/and C5 and buy the E12A. I hope it's still around by then, does special edition means limited edition in this case?


----------



## twister6

kerouac said:


> Hmmm, the last few posts in this thread makes me wonder if I made the right choice (ordering the Cayin C5) last week Sunday
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Both C5 and E12A are excellent.  No need to regret it.  Special edition means lower power for IEMs, not a limited edition.


----------



## nmatheis

twister6 said:


> Both C5 and E12A are excellent.  No need to regret it.  Special edition means lower power for IEMs, not a limited edition.




But E12A is better :wink_face:


----------



## meraias

E12a sounds really promising, anyone have the pico slim to compare to the E12a? would be interested to know.
 ok maybe they are in a different price range but you know, pico is a product released 4years ago, maybe Fiio is sort of closing up? : )


----------



## palermo

moreover I like to know how it compared to some reputable amp from ALO and Cypherlabs


----------



## mdiogofs

How does it sound with Havi B3P1?
  
 Talking about the price, E18 2014 Rev B is 5 dollar cheap than this? So...Maybe E18 is for people who needs a DAC, like me. I plan to use it with USB OTG from Oneplus One smartphone. But is especially for IEMs for me, do you think is a good buy instead of this E12A?
  
 I think you are getting my doubts  I'm not planning to get a X5 since i'm happy with Spotify premium extreme quality and recently Oneplus One plays FLAC without downsampling...
  
 What do you think it is better for me?
  
 Another question, my IEMs tender to be almost all to the brighter side...So maybe if this is on the brigher side i believe that's a no no...I have E6 and it's also on the "brighter"/enhance treble side...Maybe is FiiO "signature"...
  
 What do you think? I've seen also the sabre android dac you posted before...Or i get this sabre dac with Cayin C5 (not as bright) or E18 2014 but i didn't read about E18 yet...


----------



## twister6

mdiogofs said:


> How does it sound with Havi B3P1?
> 
> Talking about the price, E18 2014 Rev B is 5 dollar cheap than this? So...Maybe E18 is for people who needs a DAC, like me. I plan to use it with USB OTG from Oneplus One smartphone. But is especially for IEMs for me, do you think is a good buy instead of this E12A?
> 
> ...


 
  
 E18 will be more colored and darker, though not as detailed as E12A or C5.  Advantage of E18 is being a jack of all trades, having OTG connection to your smartphone, being able to use it as USB DAC/amp with your laptop, and also use it as amp.  But sound quality takes a step back in comparison to E12A and C5.


----------



## DeeKay10

Got the E12A earlier today to accomodate an X5 (which has an awfully fatiguing amp). First observations on a pair of Shure SE535s with the unit right out of the box, no burn-in or anything, are:
 1. Sounds more detailed than the X5, with a good margin, I dare say.
 2. The sound is (very) slightly warm, but I find it pleasant. It definitely doesn't capitalize on the rest of the spectrum.
 3. The bass boost switch is very subtle - I left it on a few times by accident and it took me a while to notice. I find this suitable for the amp's target audience (IEMs).
 4. There's no hissing noise when headphones are plugged in (*). Absolute silence.
 5. Isn't fatiguing at all (solved all my X5 problems)
  
 Now for some bad stuff:
 1. (*) The high gain switch produces a high-pitch noise when the music isn't playing. Why you'd want +12 db fed into your in-ears is a story on its own, which brings me to the next point.
 2. Despite having lower output than the original E12, this thing is way, WAY, *WAAAY*, too powerful, *especially* for in-ears. Now, if you feed it from a DAC connected to a PC, there's no problem - adjust the volume to 25% and under; issue resolved. However, if you feed it from a DAP without a DAC volume control, the X5 in my case, you simply don't have the option to listen to it at normal volume. In fact, at max line-in it gets really bizarre: The first 0-3% of the dial work as they should (very silent); roughly at 4-7% only the right earphone outputs sound, 8-100% gets back to normal. The left earphone's volume transitions are smooth, which makes me suspect that silly "ALPS Potentiometer" that Fiio's so proud of... Of course, that's just a speculation.
*Edit*: On full DAC blast, the amp gets too loud to listen at home/office at about 5-6% of the dial. Of course you must balance the earphones output, hence the minimum is 7-8%. =|
  
 Anyhow, I'll give this a few days of burn-in, in hopes of seeing improvement and fixing the output power.


----------



## meraias

deekay10 said:


> Got the E12A earlier today to accomodate an X5 (which has an awfully fatiguing amp). First observations on a pair of Shure SE535s with the unit right out of the box, no burn-in or anything, are:
> 1. Sounds more detailed than the X5, with a good margin, I dare say.
> 2. The sound is (very) slightly warm, but I find it pleasant. It definitely doesn't capitalize on the rest of the spectrum.
> 3. The bass boost switch is very subtle - I left it on a few times by accident and it took me a while to notice. I find this suitable for the amp's target audience (IEMs).
> ...


 

 Oh my god, this really worries me quite a bit, im planning on getting the 12a in hope of greater volume dial, I am expecting at least 30% of dial headroom to play around at low gain but this sounds really bad.
 Seriously whats wrong with all this " MoaR power" regime in amplification now days. I cant really think of any amps out there that could really give me the volume play I want. its usually only the lower 10% dial and if not 20% at the very best. (save orthos)


----------



## Stereodude

meraias said:


> Oh my god, this really worries me quite a bit, im planning on getting the 12a in hope of greater volume dial, I am expecting at least 30% of dial headroom to play around at low gain but this sounds really bad.
> Seriously whats wrong with all this " MoaR power" regime in amplification now days. I cant really think of any amps out there that could really give me the volume play I want. its usually only the lower 10% dial and if not 20% at the very best. (save orthos)


 
  
 As a counterpoint, I opened up my E12A today and am trying it out for the first time tonight.  I'm feeding it from my Rockbox'd Sandisk Sansa Fuze's headphone jack (my LOD cable hasn't arrived yet).  The E12A gain is set to Low.  With the volume on the Fuze at 0dB (the volume range is -73dB to +6dB) and listening with my HiFiman RE-600 IEMs a good listening volume is just short of the midpoint of the volume dial.
  
 FWIW, I listen to the RE-600 around -20dB when plugged in directly from the Fuze.


----------



## meraias

hmm that's one good feedback, but RE-600 is indeed not as efficient as the SE535. Those who have 846, what about your experience? is there heavy channel imbalance at the beginning of the pot?


----------



## Stereodude

Well, there's such a variance in the sensitivity / efficiency of various IEMs, it's hard to pick a sweet spot that's going to make everyone happy.  My Westone 4's are similar to the RE-600's.  If FiiO set the gain really low the E12A wouldn't be useful for driving anything but high efficiency IEMs.  As it stands, the E12A can drive my HE-500's nicely on high gain with the volume a bit past halfway.  Also, I didn't notice any channel imbalance at very low volumes when I did a quick check for it.


----------



## mdiogofs

twister6 said:


> E18 will be more colored and darker, though not as detailed as E12A or C5.  Advantage of E18 is being a jack of all trades, having OTG connection to your smartphone, being able to use it as USB DAC/amp with your laptop, and also use it as amp.  But sound quality takes a step back in comparison to E12A and C5.




Thanks!

Well, maybe I just get a C5 and then see things from there on...Maybe get the sabre DAC also... The bass boost is not interesting for me since I buy different IEMs for what they are not EQed...

I'm afraid of FiiO brightness... With bright IEMs...

If anyone can tell me if the E6 induce a brighter impact than E12A I would get the E12A...Does E12A adds that much brightness to sound?


----------



## meraias

stereodude said:


> Well, there's such a variance in the sensitivity / efficiency of various IEMs, it's hard to pick a sweet spot that's going to make everyone happy.  My Westone 4's are similar to the RE-600's.  If FiiO set the gain really low the E12A wouldn't be useful for driving anything but high efficiency IEMs.  As it stands, the E12A can drive my HE-500's nicely on high gain with the volume a bit past halfway.  Also, I didn't notice any channel imbalance at very low volumes when I did a quick check for it.


 

 no imbalance, thats a +
 ah, about the sweet spot, yea you are right, but im just hoping that there would be something which is more IEM specialized. E12A still being somewhat able to drive a Q701 is really too universal for an IEM specific amp.


----------



## nmatheis

Agree that more fine-grained volume control for sensitive IEM would've been nice.

No channel imbalance of added brightness here. 

Cayin C5 on low gain reaches eardrum implosion volume much quicker and bass boost is much less focused than E12A.


----------



## meraias

I ordered the E12A!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  : D


----------



## DeeKay10

Was wondering, am I the only one having the "sleeve" mismatching the frame?
  

  
 It's like this on both sides.
 The buttons and LEDs are aligned with no problems, but it feels like they ran outta the first batch of sleeves and messed up the production of the second one... -_-


----------



## Ultrainferno

deekay10 said:


> Was wondering, am I the only one having the "sleeve" mismatching the frame?
> 
> It's like this on both sides.
> The buttons and LEDs are aligned with no problems, but it feels like they ran outta the first batch of sleeves and messed up the production of the second one... -_-


 
  
 I have the exact same thing.


----------



## DeeKay10

Heh, "Whoops!" then.


----------



## twister6

deekay10 said:


> Was wondering, am I the only one having the "sleeve" mismatching the frame?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yep, same here, and I did mention it in my review as well.


----------



## Stereodude

deekay10 said:


> Was wondering, am I the only one having the "sleeve" mismatching the frame?


 
  
 No, but I hadn't noticed until you point it out.  Thanks for nothing!!!


----------



## Stereodude

stereodude said:


> As a counterpoint, I opened up my E12A today and am trying it out for the first time tonight.  I'm feeding it from my Rockbox'd Sandisk Sansa Fuze's headphone jack (my LOD cable hasn't arrived yet).  The E12A gain is set to Low.  With the volume on the Fuze at 0dB (the volume range is -73dB to +6dB) and listening with my HiFiman RE-600 IEMs a good listening volume is just short of the midpoint of the volume dial.


 
  
 I received my Sansa LOD cable today.  The LOD output is a little hotter than the Fuze's headphone output at 0dB, so I backed the volume off on the E12A a little bit, but the low gain setting is still very good for the few IEM's I've tried so far with respect to the volume potentiometer range.  The forthcoming EarWerkz Supra I'm backing on KickStarter is supposed to be much more efficient than any of the IEMs have I so far, so I may have a similar complaint a few months from now.


----------



## kino lau

nmatheis said:


> Agree that more fine-grained volume control for sensitive IEM would've been nice.
> 
> No channel imbalance of added brightness here.
> 
> Cayin C5 on low gain reaches eardrum implosion volume much quicker and bass boost is much less focused than E12A.


 

 I'd like to get a compatible (size wise) 10 turn pot to swap out. I haven't taken the route of reducing the source db to load my X5 like I've read others have done to get more usable volume %.
 I've been using the white filters in my 846's and the bass boost is "nice" but I haven't felt a need to use it in general. I also haven't detected any kind of background noise during playback gaps even at higher volumes (around 11:00).


----------



## nmatheis

kino lau said:


> I'd like to get a compatible (size wise) 10 turn pot to swap out. I haven't taken the route of reducing the source db to load my X5 like I've read others have done to get more usable volume %.
> I've been using the white filters in my 846's and the bass boost is "nice" but I haven't felt a need to use it in general. I also haven't detected any kind of background noise during playback gaps even at higher volumes (around 11:00).


 

 What is this *black magic* you speak of?  I'd love more rotation from the volume pot before feeling like I'm going to destroy my eardrums but am soldering-challenged!  
  
 Help me


----------



## audioxxx

My solution was to turn the eq on the x5 on, but don't change anything, this will give more play on the volume. 
 I am using the headphone out of my sony a15 dap into the e12a (I know double amping) and it sounds really nice, I'm able to fine tune the volume on the Sony to the pot on the e12a, and use the whole range, this is working really well. 
 IT'S a fail in a way trying to match from to the x5 on the line out, it REALY NEEDS a gain volume.

The output on the line out x5 needs to be variable. And the e12a needed a low, med, high gain switch. There isn't enough play in the volume control until you use power hungry iems/headphones. 


 But it's still a wicked amp, I'm really enjoying the beast


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

Pic? 
  
 How does the turning on the X5 EQ allow for my volume control when you're using your amp(s)? Is your E12A connected via HO instead of LO?


----------



## audioxxx

The EQ in the X5 drops the output of both the HO and LO by 6db,  this gives more range of volume control to the amp being fed.
  
 I have always used Line Out on the X5 when making a brick.
  
 Still testing the FiiO line out cable for the Sony DAP (I think it  sounds better than the HO for sure) , but the X5 has a better and refined Sound overall but
  (it may be Shozy alien test time soon if i can get over no screen .)


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

lol I can't read. I thought the A15 was an amp and you were X5>E12A>A15 for a 3 stack, still appreciate the pics and initial tip on enabling EQ though. I thought EQ made no difference with LO, but I can hear that it does. It's the volume rocker that doesn't seem to have an effect


----------



## audioxxx

The volume control probably only gets a 10% change in adjustment but it's still better than none, the A15 DAP has a lower voltage on the line out so I get a huge usable range which is working out better than the x5 range. 
 I don't understand why the line output is so high on the x5, but we need a way to make adjustments to it.


----------



## nmatheis

audioxxx said:


> The EQ in the X5 drops the output of both the HO and LO by 6db,  this gives more range of volume control to the amp being fed.




Doh! Never thought of enabling EQ with LO. Maybe I missed it, but have you tried dropping all bands to -6db for even lower LO output? If so, what do you think? Must try soon...


----------



## DeeKay10

I thought the EQ method would be the holy grail, so I turned it on and lowered everything to -6dB. The result: The music sounded muffled. -_-
 Choosing a simply flat EQ has a much more subtle impact, but it's still there and like everyone else here that spent a total of $500 on two aluminum bricks, I want no compromises.
 Whatever they did to the EQ on the X5, it evidently sucks:

 [line-out to line-in recordings of a 60 seconds sine sweep]
  
 Now, regarding the imbalance issues which I'm the only one that seems to be having: I suspect I'm experiencing it because I use a very powerful line-out feed to the amp (either the X5 or the PC's on-board chip). So before I start working on a replacement (sending it back to the ebay retailer...), could anyone please do these steps, exactly as described, and report?
 1. Plug the amp either to the X5's line-out (with EQ off) or your computer's headphone jack.
 2. If plugged in to the computer, raise the volume to 100%.
 3. Switch to high gain on the E12A.
 4. Plug your IEMs in, turn on the amp and move back the dial to the *lowest volume* without turning it off (should be easy enough).
 5. Put on some music and *very gently*, increase the volume.
 6. Are you experiencing any channel imbalance at the beginning of the spin?


----------



## audioxxx

Yeah, I am a little disappointed to see the distortion introduced into the EQ, and I can also hear its cleaner with EQ off.
 I hope this can be fixed in a firmware.
  
 I have tested my e12a sample  with a X5 in high gain on the e12a, and their is the imbalance you speak of in those conditions, but I don't  use high gain on tiny volumes with sensitive iem's(so your safe)  and its hardly noticeable in low gain, again at volumes I would not use on this amp, I don't think you have a faulty amp, just a hot input signal. (on the sony a15 dap (line out) its spot on no imbalance with full range of volume. (but doesn't sound as good as the LO on the X5,EQ off)


----------



## kino lau

Fiio explained their reasoning for the db drop when using the EQ, though I can't recall where I read it. My experience so far is that Fiio produces some hi quality products, to the extent that I often visit their site to see what I can buy next...lol. *EQ the LO?  BLASPHEMY!!!*


----------



## audioxxx

Fiio does this dropping the output of to prevent digital clipping, but as you can see on the graph, there's plenty of noise being introduced with the Equaliser on.


----------



## nmatheis

audioxxx said:


> Fiio does this dropping the output of to prevent digital clipping, but as you can see on the graph, there's plenty of noise being introduced with the Equaliser on.




Any comparison with other DAP's EQs? I know X5 EQ sounds better than DX90 EQ, which also ducks the gain to prevent clipping. When I max out all sliders in DX90 to bring volume back to normal non-EQ levels, it sounds like I'm listening through a tin can. I don't get this with X5. iPod/iPhone EQ also sounds sounds bad compared with X5. What I'm getting at is - yes the graphs look bad, but graphs are one thing and hearing is another.


----------



## audioxxx

nmatheis said:


> Any comparison with other DAP's EQs? I know X5 EQ sounds better than DX90 EQ, which also ducks the gain to prevent clipping. When I max out all sliders in DX90 to bring volume back to normal non-EQ levels, it sounds like I'm listening through a tin can. I don't get this with X5. iPod/iPhone EQ also sounds sounds bad compared with X5. What I'm getting at is - yes the graphs look bad, but graphs are one thing and hearing is another.





I'm finding the EQ on the Sony dap a lot more responsive, and doesn't seem muffle up the sound like the x5.
 But the dac isn't as good, and it can not produce micro detail like the X5, which I use in the evening, In silence.


----------



## DeeKay10

audioxxx said:


> [...]
> I have tested my e12a sample  with a X5 in high gain on the e12a, and their is the imbalance you speak of in those conditions, but I don't  use high gain on tiny volumes with sensitive iem's(so your safe)  and its hardly noticeable in low gain, again at volumes I would not use on this amp, I don't think you have a faulty amp, just a hot input signal. (on the sony a15 dap (line out) its spot on no imbalance with full range of volume. (but doesn't sound as good as the LO on the X5,EQ off)


 
  
 Ah, so it *is* a production issue. I agree about high gain not being relevant to (vast majority of) IEMs. Unfortunately, when paired with the X5, even with the gain set to low, spinning the dial enough to fix the channel imbalance is too loud for home/office/train listening.
 I find this extremely absurd and frustrating, with Fiio systematically publishing on their website pictures of their DACs paired with their amps, plugged to some high-end IEMs (using their own cables), with zero functional correlation between the lot. Normally, when you buy multiple products from the same company, you'd expect them to work together flawlessly.
  
 It was mentioned earlier in this thread that you can't please everybody and that some IEMs are not suitable for the E12A. This is complete nonsense. The amp is *targeted* towards IEM users and as such should support all of their types, from power-hungry dynamic drivers to super sensitive armatures. It is my impression from posts in this thread that most of the amp's owners don't go beyond the 11:00 o'clock mark on *low gain*, which means Fiio had at least 50%-12dB more room for tweaking. To me this looks like a really big skip on the Quality Assurance step on the way to the production line. They couldn't have possibly missed the fact that popular IEMs like the Shure SE535 are on the verge of exploding when hitting the 10:00 o'clock mark on the dial.
  
 To sum it up before I start working on a proper review, the E12A is my 4th (and last) Fiio product. By now, I'm familiar enough with the company's products and can characterize them with the following saying: "*Superb internals wrapped in a cheap Chinese package*". Each Fiio product I owned fulfilled its purpose (sound quality) and had a major flaw on the long run.
 E06 amplifier: Good sound quality; bad clip that seldom falls apart when on the move.
 RC-SE1 cable: Noticeable sound quality improvement; extremely microphonic when not sitting still.
 X5 DAP: Superb sound quality and dual MicroSD support; fatiguing amp (for some), bad software and bad scrolling wheel.
 E12A amplifier: Superb sound quality and bass boost; too powerful to be used on the go when fed from some line-outs.


----------



## Mr Trev

Can't exactly remember where I've read it, but seems that some channel imbalance at low volumes is inevitable with analogue volume control. I'm sure it was mentioned on some of the threads here, you can probably search it out. Doesn't seem to be manufacturer specific, happens to all devices to some degree.


----------



## DeeKay10

I Googled it and you're right.
 Unfortunately, it still leaves us with the overpowered output. =|


----------



## snarkyd

Sadly, I find the X3 LO to be much too high as well. Using the e12A on low gain I can barely get the dial past 9 using 846s.


----------



## Stereodude

Can you buy or make a cable that has a voltage divider in it?  That would knock down the signal amplitude.


----------



## Voyst

Hi everyone, 
  
 How would you rank X5 vs X1+E12A ?
 Thanks !


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

What headphones/earphones are you using? If you need the extra juice (high impedance) then X1 + E12A might be the way to go


----------



## Voyst

Thanks for your reply.

 I use havi B3 p1 and grado SR225i so I think both X1+amp and X5 would drive them quite well. It is more on a matter of SQ ...


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

Oh ok, well I don't think you'll find too many people that own both since the X1 came out after the X5. The X5 sounds really good , but you have to account for micro SD card costs as well (I'm assuming you're asking this question mainly due to budget reasons).
  
 If you only care about sound quality and are willing to sacrifice a screen for it, check out the Shozy Alien thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/733349/a-little-about-the-shozy-alien 
  
 On sale on massdrop for 1 more day for $140. Retail is $200 I believe, I paid $160 to get it sooner than massdrops shipping date of Jan 12 from null audio
  
 There are claims that the Alien sounds better than X5 + E12 as well as the AK120. I just got mine today, but my initial reaction upon early usage agrees with those claims.


----------



## Voyst

Thank you for the details.

 I am not prepared to sacrifice the screen yet, but it is pleasant to discover this new device 

 The main reason I ask this question is not budget (X5+64Go = $390 ; X1+128Go+E12A = $370, as i already have a 64Go) but is versatility. If X1+E12a is as good as the X5 (or very very close), I could take the X1 in my pocket when i am by foot in the street with no bag, and the combo X1+E12A when I have a bag, am in the train/plane, or when i am in a more quiet environment.


----------



## Dreamer2go

Just got the E12A as well... going to pair it with an old iPod 5.5 generation modded (coming its way)
 Using Shure SE846 for it, and just for fun, I paired it up with an iPhone 6...
  
 I would say the bass picks up the biggest boost.... a lot more "omfph" with bass boost on, which is great for my trance/progressive/house/techno music.... but I felt like the mids and highs were a bit overpowered by the bass boost. So I generally turn it off, since my SE846 is already bass-heavy for those type of music. For acoustic, I turn it back on.
  
 Definitely a more "lively" sound, but it's an amplifier paired up with an iPhone 6 afterall, so no real benefits gained in terms of "resolution"... will test it further!


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

Voyst,
  
 I'm not sure I understand how you're defining versatility, because it sounds to me like the X5 is substantially more convenient for your needs.
  
 Assuming that X1+E12A = X5 with respect to SQ
  
 You are basically choosing to have a less than optimal experience on the go than when you are in a quiet environment with the X1 + E12A. Whereas with the X5, you are sacrificing nothing in both environments. Do you simply want the experience of having a DAC? Because yeah, obviously the E12A can be used with other DACs/PC/Tablet/etc
  
 To check with the SQ of the X5 vs X1 (+ E12A), I think you should check out the X1 thread though.


----------



## Voyst

Thanks for the reply ! By versatility I mean that X1 is a more portable device in a pocket with keys or other things. For me X5 is just too big for a true nomade use. But if it would apear that X5 is really superior in SQ i would deal with it..


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

I wouldn't know about the SQ, these people would though:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/691332/fiio-x1-the-new-start-of-the-high-res-dap-with-individual-dac-and-headphone-amp


----------



## georgelai57

Here is Headfonia's review also comparing it to its older brother or sister.
 http://www.headfonia.com/fiio-e12a-great-budget-iem-amp/


----------



## 40lb

georgelai57 said:


> Here is Headfonia's review also comparing it to its older brother or sister.
> http://www.headfonia.com/fiio-e12a-great-budget-iem-amp/





Good review, basically how I feel about the E12A. Not the best in its price range but easily at the top of the list. I would recommend it for people starting out in this hobby as it was for me.


----------



## Greyowl

40lb said:


> Good review, basically how I feel about the E12A. Not the best in its price range but easily at the top of the list. I would recommend it for people starting out in this hobby as it was for me.


 
 I was wondering how the E12A complemented your Walkman (NWZ-ZX1)?  Considering the E12A or the E11k for my NWZ-Z1060 and the 150 ohm RE262, an IEM that I really enjoy from a desk top amp. The Walkman has quite a good internal amp, so I am curious whether there is much of a SQ improvement from the LO with the E12A, or is it simply more output.
 Thanks.


----------



## 40lb

Honestly haven't tried the ZX1 with the E12A much, keep it glued to the X5. Using the amp with the fiio walkman connector plays murder on the battery. I would like to use it more with the ZX1 but the battery drain keeps giving me headaches. Otherwise I would keep the two together more I feel they go together very well. I think it pairs better then with the X5. However that's with my ears tell me, I don't think you'll be disappointed E12A.


----------



## alfreduyb

Just got my E12A yesterday. I share the same impressions as you. More detail, cleaner background and better dynamics than the E12 although the sound signature is about the same. I use ALO green line 3.5 to 3.5 to connect with the X5. Sound great with the M50X and IM-02.


----------



## Marat Sar

So, if I were to pair the e12a with a FiiO x3 would that make my shure iem´s shine more? Is it worth it? Larger soundstage, more dynamics, or not?
  
 There´s this thing with FiiO products, where you get hooked on them and want more, but don´t know if the change in SQ is actually worth it.


----------



## Greyowl

40lb said:


> Honestly haven't tried the ZX1 with the E12A much, keep it glued to the X5. Using the amp with the fiio walkman connector plays murder on the battery. I would like to use it more with the ZX1 but the battery drain keeps giving me headaches. Otherwise I would keep the two together more I feel they go together very well. I think it pairs better then with the X5. However that's with my ears tell me, I don't think you'll be disappointed E12A.


 
  
 That's hard to understand, considering that with the LOD and the E12A there should be less demand on the Walkman's battery.  Wonder if this is something inherent to the Fiio L5 for Walkman or it's a unique situation with your DAP?  Anyway thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## 40lb

Well I don't think it helps when I only play DSD.


----------



## cheznous

40lb said:


> Well I don't think it helps when I only play DSD.



It will be the DSD. I get 20 hours with my ZX1 and the E12A. When I use the ZX1 with the PHA 3 as DAC I get 5 hours,less with HD files.


----------



## Greyowl

cheznous said:


> It will be the DSD. I get 20 hours with my ZX1 and the E12A. When I use the ZX1 with the PHA 3 as DAC I get 5 hours,less with HD files.


 
 Of course, streaming will do that, which is why I keep the online stuff to a minimum.  Since your pairing is close to mine, do you think that the E12A alters the sound signature of the WM to any extent, or simply improves the audio overall. Merci.


----------



## cheznous

greyowl said:


> Of course, streaming will do that, which is why I keep the online stuff to a minimum.  Since your pairing is close to mine, do you think that the E12A alters the sound signature of the WM to any extent, or simply improves the audio overall. Merci.




I prefer the E12A with the ZX1 rather than ZX1 on its own. I think it adds body to the sound though of course it has its own sound signature. I mainly use Shure 846 and Westone W60 and find they are a good match.


----------



## KLJTech

I already own the FiiO E12 for use with the X3 but I've found that I use the combo far more often with my Westone W40's (and at times my B&W P7's) than with my full-size planar headphones. I thought I'd use the setup more around the house with my HE-400's and 500's, but I don't. 
  
 Do most feel that the E12A is the better amp for IEM use (I realized that's what it marketed for) and have any of you found it to sound a bit more open sounding than the older E12? The way I see it I can make the switch for no money out of pocket (Amazon GC for X-Mas) so I may as well grab one BUT if it's not much of an improvement for IEM's I'll simply stick with the E12. 
  
*Thanks in advance for your time and Merry Christmas! *


----------



## audioxxx

For IEM's the improvements are great, the muses opamp inside this amp offers a very natural sound and the mid range is fantastic , (for the p7 the E12DIY has been unbeatable). 
 The e12a offers a tuned circuit with a taylered approach towards IEM's, with its silky smooth tones, and super quiet background, the amp has ample power for any IEM, and a realistic fantastic sound. It can really produce a wide spatial field with no distortion at all. 
 The bass boost is the way it should be, not overpowering and a subtle approach to bass, there's no bleed into the mid range zone, (like other implementation of bass boosts I've heard) and has managed to meet my bass needs. I no longer need the equaliser on my x5,using the stack. 
 I like it a lot, it gets my highest level of recommendation for use with IEM's.


----------



## KLJTech

audioxxx said:


> For IEM's the improvements are great, the muses opamp inside this amp offers a very natural sound and the mid range is fantastic , (for the p7 the E12DIY has been unbeatable).
> The e12a offers a tuned circuit with a taylered approach towards IEM's, with its silky smooth tones, and super quiet background, the amp has ample power for any IEM, and a realistic fantastic sound. It can really produce a wide spatial field with no distortion at all.
> The bass boost is the way it should be, not overpowering and a subtle approach to bass, there's no bleed into the mid range zone, (like other implementation of bass boosts I've heard) and has managed to meet my bass needs. I no longer need the equaliser on my x5,using the stack.
> I like it a lot, it gets my highest level of recommendation for use with IEM's.


 
  
 Thank you very much for the insight on the E12A, I truly appreciate it.


----------



## KLJTech

Just looked at the E12A on Amazon and the pictures don't show the High/Low Gain switch next to the volume control like its shown on FiiO's website and the amp is black. Ya think this is simply a matter of them using the pics from the original E12? I also thought the E12A was titanium in color rather than black. Thanks guys.


----------



## Stereodude

My E12A looks like the pictures on FiiO's website.  I've go no idea what's up with Amazon.


----------



## nmatheis

Yup, sounds like Amazon's being lazy. My E12A is definitely a charcoal gray-ish color with nice, easy to toggle switches for bass boost and gain. I just wish they'd found a way to put the bass boost switch on the front faceplate, too - and made the low gain a bit lower to give more fine-grained control over volume and more play on the volume knob. 

Someone earlier mentioned channel imbalance at low volumes. I think I responded that I hadn't noticed it. Well, I used some sensitive multiple BA IEM last night and definitely noticed it at very low volumes. I can see how this could be a problem if you're listening at home, in bed, trying to relax and go to sleep.


----------



## audioxxx

kljtech said:


> Thank you very much for the insight on the E12A, I truly appreciate it.




Glad to be of some assistance. 
 Let us know what you think? if you purchase one.


----------



## alfreduyb

The E12A is better than E12 in all aspect except power for those hard to drive phones. It has more detail, quiet, improve dynamics , better separation to name a few. It is great not only for IEM's but for easy to drive headphones as well. I am currently enjoying ( more than my IEM's ) the E12A, X5 and M50X very much.


----------



## audioxxx

I don't think the channel imbalance can be removed totally, unless a digital volume is used instead, so it is unfortunately a design problem, but for me it hasn't been an issue. And I'd prefer the analog potentiometer.


----------



## JamesFiiO

alfreduyb said:


> The E12A is better than E12 in all aspect except power for those hard to drive phones. It has more detail, quiet, improve dynamics , better separation to name a few. It is great not only for IEM's but for easy to drive headphones as well. I am currently enjoying ( more than my IEM's ) the E12A, X5 and M50X very much.


 
  
 Yes, but also expensive than E12 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. BTW, the power output of E12A is also high enough for most headphones , remember it has about 500mW output .


----------



## nmatheis

audioxxx said:


> I don't think the channel imbalance can be removed totally, unless a digital volume is used instead, so it is unfortunately a design problem, but for me it hasn't been an issue. And I'd prefer the analog potentiometer.




Agreed, it's not much of an issue for me either, but I felt obliged to acknowledge that it does, indeed, exist after I noticed it.


----------



## JamesFiiO

audioxxx said:


> I don't think the channel imbalance can be removed totally, unless a digital volume is used instead, so it is unfortunately a design problem, but for me it hasn't been an issue. And I'd prefer the analog potentiometer.


 
  
  
 yes, maybe next time we can find something better to solve the imbalance in small volume but still keep the volume knob. how about a volume knob but it is digital inside?  like the 2stepance ?


----------



## nmatheis

JamesFiiO: I'd love it if the low gain setting was even lower, so I could turn the volume knob farther without it getting so loud so quickly. Other than that, I love, love, love my E12A.


----------



## audioxxx

jamesfiio said:


> Yes, but also expensive than E12  . BTW, the power output of E12A is also high enough for most headphones , remember it has about 500mW output .




And worth every extra penny over the standard e12.

 Keep up the great job you guys are doing James. 
 Wishing you a happy & healthy 2015.


----------



## audioxxx

jamesfiio said:


> yes, maybe next time we can find something better to solve the imbalance in small volume but still keep the volume knob. how about a volume knob but it is digital inside?  like the 2stepance ?




Yes, could be a great solution, also there could be a better range of volume within the digital pot. (could have an adjustment)


----------



## audioxxx

Another instant solution to this problem is to lower the line out voltage, if possible. 
 Or some how have an adjustable line out (maybe a toggle within a memu).


----------



## JamesFiiO

nmatheis said:


> @JamesFiiO: I'd love it if the low gain setting was even lower, so I could turn the volume knob farther without it getting so loud so quickly. Other than that, I love, love, love my E12A.


 
  
 yes, we already set the gain to -2dB at low gain in E11K. and we need more feedback so we can implement in our new model.


----------



## Marco Angel

JAmes, i had the e12, sold just because a friend wanted for his hd800, and then i bought the E11k, much like the e12 but i miss the punchier bass the e12 have. Now im willing to buy the E12A but on mp4nation doesent have it yet, are they gonna sell them, and when?


----------



## JamesFiiO

marco angel said:


> JAmes, i had the e12, sold just because a friend wanted for his hd800, and then i bought the E11k, much like the e12 but i miss the punchier bass the e12 have. Now im willing to buy the E12A but on mp4nation doesent have it yet, are they gonna sell them, and when?


 
  
 not sure what happened , maybe they don't want to sell it or there are other reason. 
  
 anyway, please buy it from local dealer , or you can buy it from our online shop http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1473108.
  
 BTW, it is not available on our online shop , and I just ask our staff add it in there.


----------



## Hijodelbrx

I own an E12 and I'm very happy with it. Been reading about the E12a with much interest but I'm going to wait for the version that includes the heightened Sonics of E12a AND the bass boost of the E12!


----------



## Marat Sar

Hmm... so the e12A_ only _comes in that greyish colour? But that won´t go well with a black x3 then...


----------



## Marat Sar

hijodelbrx said:


> AND the bass boost of the E12!


 
  
 And the e12a does not have a bass boost?
  
 (sorry for doublepost)


----------



## nmatheis

Yes, E12A has a very clean bass boost


----------



## Kerouac

marat sar said:


> Hmm... so the e12A_ only _comes in that greyish colour? But that won´t go well with a black x3 then...


 
 Imo grey & black go very well together...and isn't greyish the new black?
 When it was pink or yellow, then I would have raised my eyebrow(s)

  
 About the bassboost, as far as I've understood it's pretty good, but not as strong as on the E12 (which I have).
 Recently I bought a Cayin C5 (that I like), but I'm still on the fence for the E12A. Mainly because of the much longer (20hrs) playtime....


----------



## Kerouac

And concerning double posting...don't worry...a lot of people do that over here on HF.
 I'm happy to inform you that I'm not one of those


----------



## KLJTech

The E12A has bass boost but from what I've read they've lowered it to around 20Hz +4db rather than having the boost at 50Hz with the E12. 
  
 From what I've heard the E12A can also drive most full-size headphones as well but now has a dead silent background when used with IEM's. This was a bit of an issue when I used the E12 with my Westone W40's, the E12 sounds great but at lower levels you can hear hiss in the background. I never used the bass boost because to my ears it seemed to bleed into the midrange...others may disagree. I think the E12A will be a better choice for the IEM's (W40's) and over-ear headphones (B&W P7's) I plan to use it with. The E12 is still a great amp, especially if you're not using it with high sensitivity IEM's.


----------



## TripBitShooter

Yup they lowered the cutoff frequency for the bass boost. Its now cleaner and tighter


----------



## Marco Angel

kljtech said:


> The E12A has bass boost but from what I've read they've lowered it to around 20Hz +4db rather than having the boost at 50Hz with the E12.


 
  
  


jamesfiio said:


>


 
 James, is it right? how does the Bass boost behaves on the e12a? it will help me deciding to buy it or dont =P


----------



## WitzyZed

marco angel said:


> James, is it right? how does the Bass boost behaves on the e12a? it will help me deciding to buy it or dont =P




Looking at the FR graphs on the website:

^this is the E12


^this is the E12A


----------



## Gurashieruro

witzyzed said:


> Looking at the FR graphs on the website:
> 
> ^this is the E12
> 
> ...


 
 That's actually quite nice. Without it (assuming the pink line), the AMP seems to be quite flat by itself. The bass boost is quite good from what I am seeing.


----------



## Marco Angel

witzyzed said:


> Looking at the FR graphs on the website:
> 
> ^this is the E12
> 
> ...


 
  
  


jamesfiio said:


>


 
 Exactly, i saw this on the fiio webpage and it doesent make sense, the E12A have an +4dB bass boost but on the graph it shows a +6dB boost, the sub-bass is better to my iems on the E12A (if it behaves as shown)


----------



## alfreduyb

audioxxx, what is your E12DIY opamp / buffer combination for use with the P7? The P7 is on my new year acquisition list.
 Thanks


----------



## Kerouac

> the sub-bass is better to my iems on the E12A (if it behaves as shown)


 
 Hmmm...and I thought that I've read the opposite, that the E12 should have the best sub-bass (boost).
 If the E12A is better in this ultra low department, then I should definitely get one...


----------



## audioxxx

alfreduyb said:


> audioxxx, what is your E12DIY opamp / buffer combination for use with the P7? The P7 is on my new year acquisition list.
> Thanks




Opa827 has been a nice sounding op-amp, out of the stock opamp's I like the opa1611 with the LME49600 buffer, it has a great synergy with the P7. 
 The 12a also sounds really good on the p7 as well, the bass extends lower on the 12a, with the bass boost on. In comparison to the DIY. 
 Also having the bass boost has been great with highres, when using the eq isn't possible, it adds that low rumble I like. Even on multi balanced armatures,IEM's.


----------



## KLJTech

*I'm looking forward to James chiming on the subject* of where (and how much) the Bass Boost is set on the E12A (ordered one this morning and it'll be here tomorrow) versus the E12. From what I've read when making the E12A FiiO listened to users of the E12DIY and went with a setup that provides a silent background for sensitive IEM's and lowered the Bass Boost point to a lower so that it wouldn't affect the midrange. To be clear, from what I've read the Bass Boost is set at a lower point on the E12A than the E12 and set down a dB or two but that's not what those graphs show if in fact they're accurate. 
  
 The E12 is still a hell of a good amp, I bought mine because I thought I'd use my portable setup more around the house with my planar can's (which the E12 does a great job driving) but I ended up using my Westone's about 80% of the time and the B&W P7's the other 20% so I don't require the extra juice that the E12 provides. That aside, I don't know of a better and more powerful portable amp for full-size headphones or less sensitive IEM's than the E12, especially for the money.


----------



## Replicant187

can't decide which route should i take, Sony A10+E12A or DX90/X5 alone...


----------



## KLJTech

Okay, though I've only had the E12A for a couple hours it certainly sounds "to me" like the bass boost is set/starts at at lower frequency point and is boosted a bit lower overall than the E12. I'm using the Westone W40's and the E12A does indeed have a lower noise floor than the E12...of course with full-size headphones that are harder to drive that doesn't matter as I never had an issue with hiss with my E12 when used with full size cans. 
  
 My E12A does indeed look just like the one on FiiO's website (kind of a titanium color) and not like what is shown on Amazon. Thus far while listening to songs in which I'm very familiar it appears as if the 12A sounds a bit more open with a wider soundstage.


----------



## Marco Angel

kljtech said:


> Okay, though I've only had the E12A for a couple hours it certainly sounds "to me" like the bass boost is set/starts at at lower frequency point and is boosted a bit lower overall than the E12. I'm using the Westone W40's and the E12A does indeed have a lower noise floor than the E12...of course with full-size headphones that are harder to drive that doesn't matter as I never had an issue with hiss with my E12 when used with full size cans.
> 
> My E12A does indeed look just like the one on FiiO's website (kind of a titanium color) and not like what is shown on Amazon. Thus far while listening to songs in which I'm very familiar it appears as if the 12A sounds a bit more open with a wider soundstage.



Where did you buy it? And how much?


----------



## KLJTech

Amazon $159 (Prime)


----------



## TripBitShooter

$159 is really cheap for this.


----------



## Pianist

Canada Computers is currently selling Fiio E12A for 120 CAD! I don't think they will ship outside of Canada though.


----------



## Mr Trev

Score!!!!. Just ordered mine
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Thanks, @Pianist


----------



## KLJTech

When I received this amp I listened to it for about half an hour with my Westone W40's and noticed that it did have a lower noise floor than the E12 (great amp) and sounded a bit more open/spacious. I then let the amp run while plugged in for the next 40 or so hours (did not listen to it during this time). I realize that many here will say that's a waste of time yet the TINY bit of hiss I still had in the background at low levels is now completely gone.
  
 I've now used the amp to listen to multiple albums that I'm very familiar with and I have to say that I'm impressed. To me, the E12A sounds more neutral and open sounding than the E12 with IEM's and my B&W P7's. If I were in the market for an amp to drive IEM's I'd certainly give the E12A a listen, if you plan on using the portable amp with harder to drive full-size headphones you may prefer the original E12. I know the E12 does a fantastic job driving my planar HE-400 and 500's.  
  
 I like that the High and Low Gain and Bass Boost use toggle switches and my sample of the E12A has a smoother feeling volume control than my E12, making small adjustments a lot easier. I think FiiO has done a Hell of with the E12A, especially for under $200.
  
  
_After a late night listening session: _
  
 I sat back in a big, comfortable chair late last night just to listen to a few songs through the X3/E12A and the Bowers & Wilkins P7's and ended up listening to two full albums, and went to bed a lot later than I planned. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 On some well-recorded acoustic albums, you barely notice when the Bass Boost is turned on, which is to my ears can be a nice change from the E12. When you do hear the Bass Boost it certainly sounds lower in level and frequency (plus a bit tighter) than the E12 to my ears/in my opinion/YMMV/etc. <grin>
  
*I love to hear James from FiiO chime in about the Bass Boost on the E12A and how it differs from the E12.* Either way, FiiO did a great job with the E12A...and the E12 if you're using harder to drive IEM's or full-size headphones.


----------



## justrest

I received my E12A and i love it. Great detail, black background and powerfull. I think best product in this price ratio.


----------



## Vince325

nmatheis said:


> If you listen to a lot of older music with very distinct stereo separation (like guitar only on left channel, bass only on right channel, drums and singer in middle) you might like the E12's cross feed. Otherwise you probably won't miss it.


 

 Hello I have a new X1 and listen to almost all 50-70s Jazz Do you know if the X1 has cross feed built in? I was thinking I need an amp as my volume is about 70% Eytomic ER4, and without the cross feed the E12A doesn't sound like the right one for me. Would you guys have any other recommendations? Thanks


----------



## nmatheis

No crossfeed on X1 or E12A. You'll need to look elsewhere for this. E12 is certainly an option.


----------



## razorpakk

Mine just arrived, going to make some blind tests (if my flatmate is up to it) with the 11k using mostly X1 and Philips X2 Fidelio/Phonak 112.
  
 EDIT:
  
 Quite happy with it, the 11k in comparison now seems more harsh and the soundstage is defenately better on the 12a (oh well, it costs almost three times as much).
 Love the color. 
  
 P.S. Does yours make a click noise when you turn it past 9 ?


----------



## Vince325

nmatheis said:


> No crossfeed on X1 or E12A. You'll need to look elsewhere for this. E12 is certainly an option.


 

 Sorry for being ignorant on this and i'm sure its a dumb question. But would I only need cross feed on one or both? Iv'e never noticed this in specs is there something I should look for to see if a item has it? Thanks in advance!  Vince


----------



## Kerouac

vince325 said:


> nmatheis said:
> 
> 
> > No crossfeed on X1 or E12A. You'll need to look elsewhere for this. E12 is certainly an option.
> ...


 

 I've tried the cross feed on the E12 (connected to my X5, which also has no cross feed function) and it worked perfectly fine. Just not my kinda thing/sound though...I'm on the fence of ordering an E12A myself and probably selling my E12 (although it has great bass boost) later on, because I'm using iems most of the time...


----------



## Nitori

Any comparisons to the Pico slim so far?


----------



## Mr Trev

So...got my e12a today. first impressions....it's freakin loud (X3 as source). Can barely make it past 10 o clock on the volume dial with most of my phones - guess I need to buy some harder to drive ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 So far, sounds good. Haven't done any critical listening yet, bass does seem to be better controlled than from my x3 HO. Soundstage is about the same I guess (how can you tell I'm not a reviewer). A good buy considering I got it on sale for $120 (thanks again @Pianist ).
  
 Haven't noticed any channel imbalance...what vol. setting are you folks noticing at?
  
  
 BTW my nx1 finally washed up on the Canadian shores so I should get the chance to compare in the next few days..


----------



## Marat Sar

mr trev said:


> BTW my nx1 finally washed up on the Canadian shores so I should get the chance to compare in the next few days..


 
  
 I´m considering the very same thing, adding an e12a to my x3. But for Shure 535. By what your saying there does not appear to be much point - bass a bit tighter.
  
 Also, any photots you could produce would be greatly appreciated. I´m a bit on the fence about the black x3 + titanium e12 thing as well.


----------



## KLJTech

mr trev said:


> So...got my e12a today. first impressions....it's freakin loud (X3 as source). Can barely make it past 10 o clock on the volume dial with most of my phones - guess I need to buy some harder to drive ones
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Are you using Low or High gain? I have it set to Low Gain with my X3 and Westone W40's and it gives me more volume control (rotation) to use than the higher powered E12. *I hope that you enjoy it*, I ran mine for two days before really giving it a listen (not here to debate the merits of that move) and to my ears it sounds more open/spacious and more neutral than my E12. I also find the Bass Boost doesn't appear to mess with the midrange...always a good thing, though I seldom use Bass Boost on either amp. Enjoy your new amp!


----------



## hakushondaimao

@Mr Trev: I have the same X3 + E12A set-up. Have you tried turning on the equalizer on the X3, and setting it to a flat 0 dB? I found that allowed me to play around with the E12A volume and get more range on the pot. On low gain and with EQ off I was able to hit 10 o'clock to 11 o'clock depending on the music type, but with EQ on could get 12 o'clock or higher with same volume (I tried this with all my IEMs, with a small sensitivity range of 104-107 dB, and got the same results).


----------



## KLJTech

Marat Sar,
  
 I'm sorry for the quality of the pics, I took them quickly late last night in poor lighting (and I'm a terrible photographer) and it doesn't help that the gear is covered in lint from my jacket pocket. <grin>
  
 http://s1037.photobucket.com/user/Tiframelock/media/X3ampE12A1_zpsa3301144.jpg.html


----------



## Marat Sar

kljtech said:


> Marat Sar,
> 
> I'm sorry for the quality of the pics, I took them quickly late last night in poor lighting (and I'm a terrible photographer) and it doesn't help that the gear is covered in lint from my jacket pocket. <grin>
> 
> http://s1037.photobucket.com/user/Tiframelock/media/X3ampE12A1_zpsa3301144.jpg.html


 
  
 Thanks a ton! Helped me make up my mind. 
  
 JDS Labs C5 it is.


----------



## Mr Trev

marat sar said:


> I´m considering the very same thing, adding an e12a to my x3. But for Shure 535. By what your saying there does not appear to be much point - bass a bit tighter.
> 
> Also, any photots you could produce would be greatly appreciated. I´m a bit on the fence about the black x3 + titanium e12 thing as well.


 
  
 I wouldn't say there isn't a difference - I don't exactly have the most golden ears. Besides I just got it and haven't really had a huge amount of time to listen. The best time to compare is after I've had some time to get used to the e12a, then switch back to the x3 HO.
  


kljtech said:


> Are you using Low or High gain? I have it set to Low Gain with my X3 and Westone W40's and it gives me more volume control (rotation) to use than the higher powered E12. *I hope that you enjoy it*, I ran mine for two days before really giving it a listen (not here to debate the merits of that move) and to my ears it sounds more open/spacious and more neutral than my E12. I also find the Bass Boost doesn't appear to mess with the midrange...always a good thing, though I seldom use Bass Boost on either amp. Enjoy your new amp!


 
  
 I'm using low gain. Switched to high once....yikes, my poor eardrums. The bass boost is nice, not too much boost, and mostly in the sub bass which is where I want it


hakushondaimao said:


> @Mr Trev: I have the same X3 + E12A set-up. Have you tried turning on the equalizer on the X3, and setting it to a flat 0 dB? I found that allowed me to play around with the E12A volume and get more range on the pot. On low gain and with EQ off I was able to hit 10 o'clock to 11 o'clock depending on the music type, but with EQ on could get 12 o'clock or higher with same volume (I tried this with all my IEMs, with a small sensitivity range of 104-107 dB, and got the same results).


 
  
 I don't use EQ (or bass/treble for that matter), but using it does drop the output level. Although plugging in my Grado 125 did point out how thin and hollow they seem now compared to my t51. Maybe some eq will help the grados.
  
 None of my current phones are really hard to drive, the biggest reason I bought the e12a was for a different sound sig. The biggest deal with the x3 is that the line out is so hot (1.7v). Using my iclassic I can get some more volume range (still no higher than 12 o clock tho).
  
 This could be another reason for Fiio to implement replay gain (which they are apparently working on). Then I \ we could set the rg value fairly low (right now the default r128 setting is -23) to bring the level down. I'm going to play with this a bit on my ipod and see if that really is practical.
  
 further impressions:  right angled cables are a PITA & amp bands suck - thankfully I have a stacking kit on the way.
 I did try applying replaygain to one of my albums with dbpoweramp. Lowered the level by about -9 db, about all that did was create a noticeable hissing on the tracks. Could be I just did something wrong during the conversion.


----------



## hakushondaimao

mr trev said:


> This could be another reason for Fiio to implement replay gain (which they are apparently working on). Then we could set the rg value fairly low (right now the default r128 setting is -23) to bring the level down.


 
  
 Sounds interesting... Yes, hopefully Fiio introduces something like that. I take it that would be in a firmware update?


----------



## hakushondaimao

marat sar said:


> I´m considering the very same thing, adding an e12a to my x3. But for Shure 535. By what your saying there does not appear to be much point - bass a bit tighter.
> 
> Also, any photots you could produce would be greatly appreciated. I´m a bit on the fence about the black x3 + titanium e12 thing as well.


 

 Uploaded some photos of the E12A with my X3, as well as a couple with my "new" iPod Mini flash mod. Black + titanium combo looks pretty sweet. http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/942913/my-rigs/


----------



## Merackon

I own a pair of 770s @250 Ohms, which of the two is better for driving them, the E12 or the E12A?


----------



## BALLX

12A - IEM
 12 - Headphones


----------



## KLJTech

The E12A has the juice to drive full-size headphones. If I were driving planar magnetics or another harder to drive headphone I would go with the E12. The E12A sounds a bit more neutral "to me" and the bass boost doesn't affect the midrange at all. I still love the E12, I just like the E12A more but as always your mileage may vary.


----------



## White Lotus

So KLJ, you find the bass boost less on the IEM version, right? Odd, considering the graphs on the FiiO website! Unless I read your comments incorrectly, that is..


----------



## Merackon

white lotus said:


> So KLJ, you find the bass boost less on the IEM version, right? Odd, considering the graphs on the FiiO website! Unless I read your comments incorrectly, that is..




I think that there is a 1dB difference in the total bass boost. The E12 that I have is very strong and makes listening to my headphones in noisy environments good for me.


----------



## KLJTech

white lotus said:


> So KLJ, you find the bass boost less on the IEM version, right? Odd, considering the graphs on the FiiO website! Unless I read your comments incorrectly, that is..


 
  
 Yes,* I* find the bass boost of the E12A to be less prominent than that of the E12 regardless of which IEM's or headphones I've used with it. I not only find the bass boost to be down a dB or two on the 12A (when compared to the E12) but I also suspect *(I could be wrong)*  that the boost may be set to come in at a lower frequency than it does on the E12 as it doesn't appear to have any effect on the midrange. _It's possible that it comes in/starts at the same frequency_ _as the E12_ but is simply shelved down a bit and that's why it doesn't appear to mess with the midrange. 
  
 Like I said, I really like both the E12 and the E12A but "to me" it appears as if_ FiiO did a great job in designing the E12A for IEM's and many full-size headphones_. The E12A sounds great but has no background hiss when used with my Westone W40's as where the E12 would also sound great yet you would hear background noise at low levels since it has so much juice which enables it to drive even planar magnetics.  
  
 Have you listened to the E12A and heard something different than I do (very possible) or are you bringing this up simply based on the graph? 
  
*Maybe James from FiiO can chime in on the subject and confirm that I'm not hearing what I believe I'm hearing*. I've primarily used the Westone W40's and B&W P7's with the E12A...possibly other IEM's or headphones will give one different results.


----------



## Leo888

E12A, JDS C5, iBasso D-Zero Mk2 and Cayin C5. Have read up on them on their respective thread but would like to seek an opinion. May I know if the clarity of these model on par with other or one is better than the other. Have the Cayin C5/DX50 and looking to add an amp to my X1 to drive some iems. Which one will have the best value. Hope that I can get some feedback so as to help me decide. As at now, the E12A is on top of the list but would very much appreciate some thoughts. Thanks in advance.


----------



## hakushondaimao

leo888 said:


> E12A, JDS C5, iBasso D-Zero Mk2 and Cayin C5. Have read up on them on their respective thread but would like to seek an opinion. May I know if the clarity of these model on par with other or one is better than the other. Have the Cayin C5/DX50 and looking to add an amp to my X1 to drive some iems. Which one will have the best value. Hope that I can get some feedback so as to help me decide. As at now, the E12A is on top of the list but would very much appreciate some thoughts. Thanks in advance.


 

 Have the E12A, but haven't tried any of the others. If you're looking to drive IEMs, the E12A makes total sense. From reading the Cayin C5 thread, it would seem that's a pretty good all-rounder, capable of driving many over-ear headphones. Getting the E12A would cover you for more sensitive headphones and in-ears, so you'd be pretty much taken care of for whatever listening you want to do. I'm considering getting the Cayin C5 for similar blanket coverage without breaking the bank.


----------



## Leo888

hakushondaimao said:


> Have the E12A, but haven't tried any of the others. If you're looking to drive IEMs, the E12A makes total sense. From reading the Cayin C5 thread, it would seem that's a pretty good all-rounder, capable of driving many over-ear headphones. Getting the E12A would cover you for more sensitive headphones and in-ears, so you'd be pretty much taken care of for whatever listening you want to do. I'm considering getting the Cayin C5 for similar blanket coverage without breaking the bank.




That's sounds like what I plan. Honestly, I have C&C BH2 and Topping NX1 and like them a lot. They serve their duty with my other dap and want one more in the same rank of the C5 for the X1. I really hope to settle down with one with good price/performace ratio on the budget i have on hand.

Btw, thanks for the thoughts and hope for someone with experience of the few I mentioned to chip in with their thoughts.


----------



## nmatheis

E12A!!!

Much, much better bass boost than C5 and more headroom on volume pot than C5. Sounds great, too. I can see owning both, which I do - but end up using E12A more.


----------



## Mr Trev

Agreed, although I haven't heard the c5. The e12a has plenty o power to drive some full-sized phones as well. I still haven't been able to get above 11 o clock volume on low gain with any of my phones.


----------



## White Lotus

kljtech said:


> Have you listened to the E12A and heard something different than I do (very possible) or are you bringing this up simply based on the graph?


 
  
 I haven't listened to the E12A, I'm getting one this week. I trust your opinion! 
  
 I'll do my best to confirm your results once I get mine this week.
  
  


mr trev said:


> I still haven't been able to get above 11 o clock volume on low gain with any of my phones.


 
  
 Which non-IEMs have you tried the E12A with?


----------



## KLJTech

Hope the E12A works well for you. 
 I just checked to see if there are any "pro" reviews out there for the E12A and found this (I see that one of the IEM's used for the reviews is the Westone W4's, which I assume is somewhat to my W40's: 
  
  
  
*http://www.headfonia.com/fiio-e12a-great-budget-iem-amp/  *  
  
_One of the Fiio __features I always like__ is the Bass Boost. BB lovers might be a bit disappointed this time round, because the E12A’s bass boost, as I’ve mentioned, now only represents a 4dB boost. That means the over sound of the E12A is more linear than ever before._
  
_Bass boost now is + 4dB where it was +6dB on the E12. Gain setting has remained the same (+16dB) but the E12A has a lower output current __as __FiiO__ calls it_.
  
  
  
*http://headfonics.com/2014/11/the-fiio-e12a-the-iem-amp/*
  
The E12a’s MUSE02 still favors a slightly weighted low end but compared to the E12 the E12a low end is much more discreet and less in your face. The bass response on the E12a is toned down considerably without losing any sense of depth or slam whereas compared to the E12 using IEM’s the bass response is perhaps a little too dominant coloring the presentation and squeezing out the mids in favor of mid-bass slam and low end power. 
  
With the E12a the bass response feels tighter, a little bit less present and less boomy.


----------



## nmatheis

Agree with the reviewer's assessment of E12A's bass - tight & focused come to my mind. I just leave it on most of the time, since it fills out the bottom end nicely without warming up the sound. 

In comparison, the Cayin C5's bass boost makes the sound signature noticeably warmer, and I leave that off all the time.


----------



## Mr Trev

white lotus said:


> Which non-IEMs have you tried the E12A with?


 
 So far just Grado 125 & Beyer t51. Neither is hard to drive, but the grado is the one that used the most volume. Got a hp150 on the way, supposedly sounds nice with the e12a.


----------



## nmatheis

What *doesn't* sound nice with E12A? Within reason, of course. Not talking 600ohm HP - but reasonable efficient HP / IEM.


----------



## White Lotus

So, that does make me want to ask the question - 
  
 Are the graphs on the FiiO website possibly incorrect? Should they be the other way around maybe?


----------



## hakushondaimao

white lotus said:


> Which non-IEMs have you tried the E12A with?


 
  
 I use the HD598, which is a very easy-driving over-ear. Sounds fantastic on either low or high gain through the E12A, but a bit more spacious on high (at only about 10:30/11 o'clock on the volume pot, depending on music choice).


----------



## White Lotus

hakushondaimao said:


> I use the HD598, which is a very easy-driving over-ear. Sounds fantastic on either low or high gain through the E12A, but a bit more spacious on high (at only about 10:30/11 o'clock on the volume pot, depending on music choice).


 
  
 That's great news!
  
 Is that on the high gain mode?


----------



## KLJTech

white lotus said:


> So, that does make me want to ask the question -
> 
> Are the graphs on the FiiO website possibly incorrect? Should they be the other way around maybe?


 
  
 It's possible that it's simply a mistake on the website. *I'm hoping that James will chime in at some point*. I seriously doubt that all of us are hearing the same thing...bass boost set a dB or two lower, not messing with midrange and more spaciousness. Regardless, I think you'll be very happy with it. I still love my E12 with my HE-400&500's but with my easier to drive headphones and IEM's I prefer the 12A.


----------



## hakushondaimao

white lotus said:


> That's great news!
> 
> Is that on the high gain mode?


 

 Yes, high gain. I find that I get more wiggle room on the E12A when I turn on the equalizer on my X3, and set it to 0 dB across the board (custom mode). This lowers the output of the X3's line out slightly, which is great for IEMs. With EQ off, I'm at around 10 o'clock volume with the HD598s, so this would probably be a good setting for driving higher power headphones.


----------



## hakushondaimao

kljtech said:


> It's possible that it's simply a mistake on the website. *I'm hoping that James will chime in at some point*. I seriously doubt that all of us are hearing the same thing...bass boost set a dB or two lower, not messing with midrange and more spaciousness. Regardless, I think you'll be very happy with it. I still love my E12 with my HE-400&500's but with my easier to drive headphones and IEM's I prefer the 12A.


 

 Don't know much about the bass boost on the E12 as I haven't heard it. I did a little sound test with all my headphones recently with the E12A, and one of the things I listened for was the effect of bass boost. I found bass boost had minimal effect with IEM’s that are already quite bassy (like the SE215, though I did "feel" some added oomph), and on those generally lacking in bass (my UE600vi). For phones with tight but non-bass-heavy sound signature (HD598, XBA-H1, AH-c751, ATH-CKX9), bass boost added body and space.


----------



## Wiiffler

hmmmm, looks much sexier than the E7...


----------



## ReizeiMako

So I'm the only one around here use E12A with DX50 XD. Anyway at low gain it can drive 150ohm PK1 efficiently. Good amp indeed.


----------



## DeeKay10

The HS6 stacking kit and the carrying box came in today, so I finally completed the set:
  

  
 A bit noisy here to test it right now, but should I expect a sound quality improvement with the cable that came with the stacking kit (it's also sold separately, after all)?
*EDIT*: Quick-check - sound is clearer, highs in particular. Not day and night change though, don't go crazy just yet. Deserves a thorougher examination.


----------



## Leo888

nmatheis said:


> E12A!!!
> 
> Much, much better bass boost than C5 and more headroom on volume pot than C5. Sounds great, too. I can see owning both, which I do - but end up using E12A more.







mr trev said:


> Agreed, although I haven't heard the c5. The e12a has plenty o power to drive some full-sized phones as well. I still haven't been able to get above 11 o clock volume on low gain with any of my phones.




Thanks for the thoughts @nmatheis and @Mr Trev. My apologies for missing the feedbacks earlier but fortunately I went thru the thread again to realised that the feedbacks were meant to address my question. 

Still juggling between the JDS C5 and E12A but from where I am C5 cost quite a bit more than the E12A. Thus, most probably I'll pick the E12A. Will update again. 

Thanks again guys.


----------



## alfreduyb

My X5 and E12A on high gain with bass boost on makes the Q701 sing. I seldom use my ALO Pan Am ( obviously better but not dramatically )as a result.


----------



## ph0n6

Been looking for a portable amp for a while now for my DX50 and Heaven V since the HO was too noisy. I tried the E12A at the store and love it, though there are some other contenders like the JDS C5 and the Cayin C5. Wonder if anyone have heard all 3 of them? I'm more leaning toward the JDS one but I can't find a comparison of them anywhere


----------



## ReizeiMako

ph0n6 said:


> Been looking for a portable amp for a while now for my DX50 and Heaven V since the HO was too noisy. I tried the E12A at the store and love it, though there are some other contenders like the JDS C5 and the Cayin C5. Wonder if anyone have heard all 3 of them? I'm more leaning toward the JDS one but I can't find a comparison of them anywhere



There is comparison between JDS and E12A at Headfonia (E12A review).


----------



## ph0n6

reizeimako said:


> There is comparison between JDS and E12A at Headfonia (E12A review).



 


Tried many stores here but seems like they stopped stocking the C5 so I went for the E12A. So far so good, definitely a keeper. The SQ improvement is easily noticeable ( I went from the Topping NX1 so it is to be expected)


----------



## Leo888

ph0n6 said:


> reizeimako said:
> 
> 
> > There is comparison between JDS and E12A at Headfonia (E12A review).
> ...


 
 What's your setup @ph0n6 . Looking into the C5 or E12A too for my X1.


----------



## ph0n6

leo888 said:


> What's your setup @ph0n6 . Looking into the C5 or E12A too for my X1.



 


I have an DX50+E12A+Final Audio Heaven V. First impression from the NX1 is better in every aspect (as it should). No hiss whatsoever unlike the NX1, Little bigger soundstage, very smooth and warm mid compare to the rather dry and neutral NX1 (but not too warm). Bass doesn't seems to change much from the NX1, with Bass boost adds a little rumble here and there but luckily doesn't bleed into the mid. Treble is a little bit more forward and sparkling than the NX1. They don't have the C5 at the store so I couldn't conpare them, but I'm pleased with this purchase nonetheless and I think I have found my stopping point for my portable combo. Now to find the desktop one.........


----------



## perseffect

This is my first post but hopefully asking a question that isn't covered elsewhere.
  
 I've just purchased an X3 (wanted one with the Wolfson chip before the new X3k comes out) and was using it with an E11k and HD598s.  Although the E11k didn't add much to the already impressive X3, it added just enough richness and a little detail to justify the extra bulk and connections.  I use them to play apple lossless rips of my CD collection.
  
 However, I really wanted an E12 or E12A to give it that extra space and feel like it was really adding something to the X3.  I've read practically everything I can to see which is the right one to go for, the E12 or E12A.
  
 I reached out to my local Fiio approved store who then contacted Fiio technical support to ask the question.  They were really helpful and gave the following advice
  
_*"In our opinion, the E12 is more suitable for the HD598 comparing with the E12A. It will be not any problem if you want to connect the E12A with the HD598, but the final sound quality may be not so good. Of course, it is just for reference. "*_
  
 I had actually already gone ahead and ordered the E12A as I figured the lower power would still be suitable for the HD598s and I like some of the revised design features and longer battery life.  I just don't need a 'loud' amplifier, I want to detail and soundstage.
  
 However, now I get the specialist reply I'm concerned I might have made the wrong choice.  Does anyone have any experience of this? Might the final sound quality with my setup not be as good with the E12A v the E12?  I had thought I would get all the benefits of the new model with none of the weaknesses as I am using easier to drive headphones anyway.
  
 Any ideas why the sound quality might not be so good?  
 Thanks in advance for the help.


----------



## White Lotus

Welcome to Head-fi!
  
 I haven't had any issues driving full-size cans with the E12A, I honestly wouldn't stress mate.
  
 You will love your purchase. 
  
 When does your E12A arrive? I'd like to hear how it sounds with your setup!


----------



## perseffect

white lotus said:


> Welcome to Head-fi!
> 
> I haven't had any issues driving full-size cans with the E12A, I honestly wouldn't stress mate.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the quick reply. I'm probably just being nervous. Would love it to be as good as I hope. 

The E12A should arrive tomorrow. Fingers crossed it gets here. Can't wait to try it. 

Cheers


----------



## KLJTech

Jame from FiiO has been on one of the threads recently to point out that the E12A has plenty of juice to drive most (not all) full-size headphones...not just IEM's. I have both amps,_ love them both_, but I like the E12A more UNLESS I want to use it to drive my HE-500s in which case I'd rather have the extra power of the E12. 
  
 I think you'll be very happy with your choice. Good luck!


----------



## hakushondaimao

perseffect said:


> I had actually already gone ahead and ordered the E12A as I figured the lower power would still be suitable for the HD598s and I like some of the revised design features and longer battery life.  I just don't need a 'loud' amplifier, I want to detail and soundstage.


 
  
 Haven't tried the E12, but have the exact same X3 + E12A + HD598 that you're looking at. I also had the E11K prior to getting the E12A, and can tell you that the 12 is a huge improvement. I love the E12A + HD598 combination, especially with classical. I also use the E12A with a variety of IEMs (most frequently the SE215, XBA-H1) and think they combine very well, too. If you plan to use IEMs in addition to the 598, I'd say the E12A is a great multi-purpose amp.


----------



## Leo888

ph0n6 said:


> leo888 said:
> 
> 
> > What's your setup @ph0n6 . Looking into the C5 or E12A too for my X1.
> ...




Thanks for the thoughts ph0n6. I have the NX1 and E12A is definitely a better amp.

I've had an hour session with it with my X1 and SE846 yesterday at a local store. Good treble with just the right quantity for me, great liquid smooth mids/vocals and a big full bodied bass. 

Still holding back for now until I get the chance to try out the JDS C5 but have a question to ask. Hopefully, I can get some feedbacks to help me out. The unit I've tried may not have enough burn in time and thus could be the case as I felt the bass to be too big and full at the same time not as tight as I hope.

I would really like to find out if burning in will further tighten up the sound. 

Thanks in advance guys and hope for further feedbacks.


----------



## KLJTech

My E12 has been used for hundreds of hours and sounds great with full-size headphones like the HE-400&500's. It's a powerful, portable amp _but to my ears_ (_with my headphones_) the bass can be too much with the Bass Boost enabled and I feel that it can bleed into the midrange. I'm not sure if you're asking about the E12 with the Bass Boost on or off, I never use the Bass Boost on the E12. The E12A on the other hand, sounds somewhat similar to the E12 but with tighter bass and a bit more spacious/open sound and zero background noise. Even with the Bass Boost turned on the 12A it never sounds overpowering (sounds like it's down a dB or two) even with my IEM's like the Westone W40's or my portable B&W P7's. 
  
 I would recommend either amp and base which one I bought on what I'd be using it with, for regular full-size headphones or IEM's I'd go for the E12A, for planar or other harder to drive headphones I'd pick the E12. The JDS C5 from what I've read is also a very good amp, I truly think there will be pros and cons to most any portable amp in this price range. What matters most is which amp sounds best to you with your music and your gear. I don't believe you can go too far wrong with the FiiO Mont Blanc E12, E12A the JDS C5 or even the Cayin C5. *Good luck!* I hope you end up enjoying the amp.


----------



## Leo888

@KLJTech

Thanks for the thoughts. Appreciate it. I'm actually referring to the E12A and also have a Cayin C5 with my DX50. Just happens to have the X1 which along with the DX50, sounds better from the LO based on comments from users here in this forum. Will keep your thoughts in mind when I comes to a decision. Thanks again.


----------



## Leo888

Just picked up the E12A today. Thanks to everyone who have put forth your thoughts leading me to this. Thanks again everyone. Cheers.

But will still be checking up on the JDS C5 sometime soon.


----------



## ph0n6

leo888 said:


> Just picked up the E12A today. Thanks to everyone who have put forth your thoughts leading me to this. Thanks again everyone. Cheers.
> 
> But will still be checking up on the JDS C5 sometime soon.


 
  
 Welcome to the club  What's your initial impression?


----------



## Leo888

ph0n6 said:


> Welcome to the club  What's your initial impression?




Thanks for the welcome. 

Coming off from the NX1, the E12A just sound so much more fuller and refined. Just as I wrote in a earlier post, good treble extension with ample quantity for me with a full bodied bass line. The mid range and vocals are simply fantastic. Good details retrieval delivered in a smooth and liquid way. It has good dynamics and musically involving though having a balance sound. And as advertised, I get more play with the volume pot and channel imbalance was not an issue. 

Really feels good about this purchase but yet still curious about the JDS C5 and will check them out soon.


----------



## nmatheis

Glad you're enjoying Leo888!

If you haven't already, ignore the C5 for now and snatch up an E12 DIY!!!


----------



## ph0n6

leo888 said:


> Thanks for the welcome.
> 
> Coming off from the NX1, the E12A just sound so much more fuller and refined. Just as I wrote in a earlier post, good treble extension with ample quantity for me with a full bodied bass line. The mid range and vocals are simply fantastic. Good details retrieval delivered in a smooth and liquid way. It has good dynamics and musically involving though having a balance sound. And as advertised, I get more play with the volume pot and channel imbalance was not an issue.
> 
> Really feels good about this purchase but yet still curious about the JDS C5 and will check them out soon.


 
 If you can find it check out the Aune B1 also. Similar price of the C5 and though I haven't heard the C5 yet, I think it will be a great contender of the C5 excluding the heat issue being a Class A amp (piggyback will give you a bad time, though using it seperately might be a good idea)


----------



## audioxxx

I agree grab a e12diy while you still can its a great amp. 
 Really good clean amp with room for updates. The extra battery voltage makes a difference with cans. 



nmatheis said:


> Glad you're enjoying Leo888!
> 
> If you haven't already, ignore the C5 for now and snatch up an E12 DIY!!!


----------



## Leo888

nmatheis said:


> Glad you're enjoying Leo888!
> 
> If you haven't already, ignore the C5 for now and snatch up an E12 DIY!!!







ph0n6 said:


> If you can find it check out the Aune B1 also. Similar price of the C5 and though I haven't heard the C5 yet, I think it will be a great contender of the C5 excluding the heat issue being a Class A amp (piggyback will give you a bad time, though using it seperately might be a good idea)







audioxxx said:


> I agree grab a e12diy while you still can its a great amp.
> Really good clean amp with room for updates. The extra battery voltage makes a difference with cans.




Wow. Thanks for the leads guys but I guess I will just pass for now. 

As at now, I'm more of an iem guy and not really looking at headphones at the moment. The E12A fits my needs as I have some very sensitive iems and really glad that it fits my sound preference too. Not too much of a technical guy but I do enjoy my music and don't think I'll be messing with the diy even if I have one. Guess I'm hearing in part to the diy model which the E12A design was based on. Haha, I might be wrong to assume that though but will look out for a opportunity to audition if I can. 

As for the Aune B1, guess heat is a no go for me as my Cayin C5 runs a little too warm and I only use it at home.

Thanks again guys for the warm welcome and leads. Cheers.


----------



## perseffect

Ok, so firstly thanks for the feedback before on the E12A for my X3 and HD598 setup.
  
 It arrived yesterday and I tried it out.  In a moment of initial panic, I also ordered the E12 as I thought the E12A was too light on bass and that arrived this morning.  So great to be able to try the E11k, E12 and E12A side by side.
  
 And guess what, you were all right, the E12A is the clear winnner for my setup.  (Other two being sent back as we speak).
  
 Some observations:
 E11k - I actually really like this and wanted it to be the one I kept.  Its small size and immaculate finish along with a really smooth volume pot gave a lot to like.  It sounded the 'right kind of warm' for me.  However, once you hear the soundstage of the E12s you just can't go back to it.  Thats too much to compromise on now.
  
 E12 - No difference in size, weight or finish really to the E12A.  Slightly stiffer volume pot.  Sounded a bit more full bodied like the E11k only more so but with the bigger soundstage.  Bass boost was also good but...
  
 E12A - ... the E12A just seemed to take all of the great points of the E12 and refined it (to my ears anyway).  I really noticed that the vocals didn't need to compete to be heard over the bass which I picked up on with the E12.  I must admit, I don't like the grey 'v' the black and the finish, although sturdy, is not top class.  I also seem to have one where the volume pot is just not exactly centred into the machined space in the body.  Slightly annoying.  But definitely the noticeable winner for me.
  
 The thing is, this is all subjective and I'm sure I would not have really noticed any of them lacking until I tried the others.  However, the E12A has the right balance for me and I'm super pleased.
  
 Now to sit down and simply enjoy it.
 Cheers to all.


----------



## razorpakk

perseffect said:


> I also seem to have one where the volume pot is just not exactly centred into the machined space in the body.  Slightly annoying.  But definitely the noticeable winner for me.


 
 I thought I had the same problem, then I realized the clicky noise is just the amp turning on with some delay (like it happens with some active speakers).
  
 I also quickly jumped from 11k to 12a, quite happy with it (driving Fidelio X2s and PFE 112).


----------



## xaddictionx

Anybody has got comparisons between the E12A against JDS C5?


----------



## ReizeiMako

xaddictionx said:


> Anybody has got comparisons between the E12A against JDS C5?


 
 Lieven has. http://www.headfonia.com/fiio-e12a-great-budget-iem-amp/


----------



## xaddictionx

reizeimako said:


> Lieven has. http://www.headfonia.com/fiio-e12a-great-budget-iem-amp/


Thanks for the link!


----------



## White Lotus




----------



## xaddictionx

white lotus said:


>



Nice! Btw how's the sound paired with the E12A?


----------



## White Lotus

xaddictionx said:


> Nice! Btw how's the sound paired with the E12A?


 
  
 Absolutely fantastic. I'm using the E12A with my UM Merlin, which have a notoriously LOW impedance of ~10ohms.
  
 This makes them incredibly fussy with sources, and the E12A is perfect.
  
 I also prefer using a full-size volume knob instead of the volume adjustment on the X5.. But that's just me being fussy.


----------



## jonyoo

Sigh...I've just done something stupid. Tried to switch out the Muses02 to try a Muses01 opamp I got a few days ago. I think I broke my e12a.


----------



## audioxxx

Ouch, I know that sinking gut feeling when it doesn't turn on, im sorry to hear this. 
 If you put the muses02 back does it do nothing? 
 You could buy a e12diy and use the muses chips in it.


----------



## palermo

jonyoo said:


> Sigh...I've just done something stupid. Tried to switch out the Muses02 to try a Muses01 opamp I got a few days ago. I think I broke my e12a.


 
 I doubt Muses01 doesn't enough voltage supply on the board E12A. Since this new amp reduce voltage, so it uses Muses02 instead of Muses01. 
 FYI, Muses02 run at lower voltage +/-3.5V, whilst Muse01 need at least +/-9V, so your Muses01 not properly powered. There is nothing happen with your E12A, just go back to Muses02. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 BTW, is there socket adapter so you can change the opamp easily ? Please give us a pict


----------



## jonyoo

audioxxx said:


> Ouch, I know that sinking gut feeling when it doesn't turn on, im sorry to hear this.
> If you put the muses02 back does it do nothing?
> You could buy a e12diy and use the muses chips in it.


 
  


palermo said:


> I doubt Muses01 doesn't enough voltage supply on the board E12A. Since this new amp reduce voltage, so it uses Muses02 instead of Muses01.
> FYI, Muses02 run at lower voltage +/-3.5V, whilst Muse01 need at least +/-9V, so your Muses01 not properly powered. There is nothing happen with your E12A, just go back to Muses02.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was told that the Muses01 will work fine  I should have researched more about this before I tried it. I guess I will have to pay the price. So basically, I tried to pull out the Muses02 which is soldered on to the board and I broke two of it's legs. Of course, legs would not move because they are soldered on. This is where I was stupid. So I have a Muses02 on there with two broken legs. After seeing them break, I just left it because I don't want to make matters worse. When I turn it on, the blue light comes on, blinks for a couple seconds, and then just turns off. I'm thinking that it can't read the op amp (because of the two broken legs). The remaining 6 legs are attached and are fine. I have a bad habit of learning things the hard way. If I solder the tip of the broken legs back onto the op amp will they work again? Or is my best bet, desoldering the opamp completely off, trash the muses02 and put in my new muses01? I have no idea what to do. Please help me


----------



## nmatheis

There's a reason Fiio sells the E12 DIY, bro :wink_face:

Good luck fixing your E12A!


----------



## audioxxx

You need to solder wire legs where those legs broke of and run those wires through the traces, now this may be very hard if not impossible to do. 
 Your cheapest way out is to order another musses02.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=400418607953&alt=web 
Good luck.


----------



## jonyoo

nmatheis said:


> There's a reason Fiio sells the E12 DIY, bro
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah...just thought I could do it with this one as well. fml...


----------



## jonyoo

audioxxx said:


> You need to solder wire legs where those legs broke of and run those wires through the traces, now this may be very hard if not impossible to do.
> Your cheapest way out is to order another musses02.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=400418607953&alt=web
> Good luck.


 

  
  
 This is not fixable is it? The leg on the other side is also in the same condition...


----------



## audioxxx

Try to not stress out about it, I have broken stuff in my learning quests (as long as you don't do it again) , just remember to always grab the data sheet and check compatibility, the musses02 has very soft copper legs, be very careful and don't touch them when their in place.


----------



## audioxxx

Ok, this can be fixed, with a good quality soldering iron and solder (preferably an smd iron) , you need to hold the unit on its side so the solder beads on the edge. 
First try and tin the chip where you see the but of metal. This is putting a little bit of solder in the break then. 
 Use the iron heat to push the leg back and heat the top of the break while feading the solder, only use a bit. The solder should stick the leg back


----------



## vman

I bought this amp after much research. I was deciding between the Cayin C5 and E12A, but the E12A pretty much won me over after reading this post + the sweet price I got for the E12A easily settled the debate (I practiacally paid half what I would have paid for the C5!)
  
 Now, this is my very first amp and I'm not exactly sure if I'm doing things right.
 I'm using my Sony Xperia Z3 compact for music...and using the headphone jack for now. I've noticed slight hissing at very few occasions, especially when changing tracks on the player. From what I've read, this is _not_ the recommended way of using the amp because of the double amping going on. Probably explains the unusual fatigue I feel after a listening session with this setup.
  
 I'm not a fan of DAPs to be honest, and I'd rather stick to my smartphone for convenience.
 So do I really need a DAC to complete my setup?
 From what I've read, the Xperia Z3 seems to be one of the few smartphones that has an audio driver that natively supports HD decoding (source). Is there a way to make use of this?
  
 Basically, how do I make the most out of my new amp, with minimal additional costs?
  
 Cheers!


----------



## DeeKay10

vman said:


> I bought this amp after much research. I was deciding between the Cayin C5 and E12A, but the E12A pretty much won me over after reading this post + the sweet price I got for the E12A easily settled the debate (I practiacally paid half what I would have paid for the C5!)
> 
> Now, this is my very first amp and I'm not exactly sure if I'm doing things right.
> I'm using my Sony Xperia Z3 compact for music...and using the headphone jack for now. I've noticed slight hissing at very few occasions, especially when changing tracks on the player. From what I've read, this is _not_ the recommended way of using the amp because of the double amping going on. Probably explains the unusual fatigue I feel after a listening session with this setup.
> ...


 
 I couldn't find a line-out from USB solution for the Z3, but that might solve your problems. I've seen someone managed to plug an E7K to their Xperia Z Ultra, so you might wanna go check that thread out, or maybe try the HiFimeDIY Sabre DAC for Android as an alternative solution. I also doubt the Xperia's native HD decoding makes an audiable difference, but I'm on the 192/24-is-bull**** camp, so that's my personal opinion.
  
 I advise trying some different player apps too, such as Poweramp (tinker with its playback settings) to try and mitigate the hiss.


----------



## RedTwilight

vman said:


> I bought this amp after much research. I was deciding between the Cayin C5 and E12A, but the E12A pretty much won me over after reading this post + the sweet price I got for the E12A easily settled the debate (I practiacally paid half what I would have paid for the C5!)
> 
> Now, this is my very first amp and I'm not exactly sure if I'm doing things right.
> 
> ...




You could try Walkman>> Settings>> Sound Effects (Audio Settings>> enable Hi-Res Audio via USB


----------



## mdiogofs

Do you guys think this could pair well with a HifimeDIY Sabre DAC?


----------



## KLJTech

I got a chance after an extremely busy week to sit back and relax last night in a comfortable chair and listen to a few CD's I bought this week. I was using the FiiO X3, E12A and the B&W P7's and the sound was wonderful, I definitely think my Westone W40's and B&W P7's sound better with the E12A than with the E12. I have nothing but love for the E12, as it does a great job driving my planar headphones but to my ears the E12A sounds more neutral/clean and there's no question that it has a blacker background with no noise at all with any of my IEM's. FiiO did a wonderful job with the E12A.


----------



## violencer

I wasn't impressed with X5 from the beginning of my purchase. X5 sound is weird. Slow, not detailed bass, smooth mids (sometimes even dull), sometimes a little sibilant vocal.
 X5+UE900 = Boring, leaking bass details, sometimes a little sibilant vocal, sometimes too much mids.
 X5+Fidelio X1 = Too much smooth mids, clumsy boomy mid bass, sometimes distorted highs.
 X5+ATH-IM70 = Boring, leaking bass details.
 X5+XBA-H3 = Well, it's ok..
 Then I switched to X5+E12A and it looks like E12A fixed all X5 problem.
 X5+E12A(Bass=OFF)+UE900 = a little more details, much better coherent sound, sweet vocal, good mids, and very detailed bass, no more sibilant on vocal, wow.
 X5+E12A(Bass=OFF)+Fidelio X1 = good bass details, good mids, good highs, good sound.
 X5+E12A(Bass=OFF)+ATH-IM70 = not to much changed..
 X5+E12A(Bass=OFF)+H3 = better than ok, better bass. better vocal.
 FiiO grew up to next level, I'm now very excited to see new FiiO's products, I hope that X7 will be a even better than X5+E12A , also I really want to try X3k with Cirrus Logic...
  
 My favorite rig at the moment:


----------



## Fadem

mdiogofs said:


> Do you guys think this could pair well with a HifimeDIY Sabre DAC?


 

 I myself am also interested in knowing this. I'm getting that DAC soon and not really sure what to pair it up with (driving IEMs); currently thinking of the Fiio E6...


----------



## mdiogofs

fadem said:


> I myself am also interested in knowing this. I'm getting that DAC soon and not really sure what to pair it up with (driving IEMs); currently thinking of the Fiio E6...




I've been there. FiiO E6 it's a No No with the Android Sabre DAC. I have both, and I can notice sound clipping (noise) on higher frequencies. For it to work ok, I need to put E6 in EQ3, the "low gain" setting.

So, I've bought Topping NX1. It's on a different level than E6, much better. But it has no EQs that E6 has. Well, NX1 pairs very well with the Android Sabre DAC! Very neutral amp. Using it with Havi B3 pro I. Very good overall pairing group!

Wondering if the E12A could be the next amp to go to next level. But...it probably won't be with Android Sabre DAC...HifimeDIY has a new top of the line DAC, the Sabre ES9018K2M. But its 3 times the price of the Android DAC...


----------



## DeeKay10

Would like to note I had the *PC version* of the Sabre DAC along with the E06 and only experienced clipping at 100% volume output. It's a known DAC issue, not the amplifier's problem. Been using that combo with IEMs, normally at 25% volume, and was pretty happy with the sound.
 I gave the E06 to a friend since I bought the E12A, so unfortunately I don't have anything to compare the DAC+E12A combo to. :x


----------



## Fadem

Thank you both for your answers. I'll wait and see how the DAC and the E6 pair myself before buying anything new (either E12a or NX1) to go along with it. If the DAC doesn't get rid of the high noise at low volume playback with low impedance IEMs I'd be disappointed anyway. I'm not the only one that buys a DAC to get rid of noise during playback, right?


----------



## mdiogofs

But if you don't have the E6 yet, the NX1 is not much more expensive. Maybe just no more than $15 more than the E6. Bought it at Shenzenaudio on a promotion for about $35 I think.


----------



## ph0n6

The NX1 is nice for the price, but tbh E12A is at another level (surprised!), especially for sensitive IEM.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Guys, I just loved the E12A. Never expected this level of quality at that price. In some areas like details and transparency it beats much more expensive amplifiers. (even full sized ones)
  
 You can find my full review here.


----------



## Fadem

dan.gheorghe said:


> Guys, I just loved the E12A. Never expected this level of quality at that price. In some areas like details and transparency it beats much more expensive amplifiers. (even full sized ones)
> 
> You can find my full review here.


 

 Nice review. Just a small question about 'pocketability'; how easy does the potentiometer move? Is it possible to accidentally turn up the volume while in the pocket?


----------



## dan.gheorghe

fadem said:


> Nice review. Just a small question about 'pocketability'; how easy does the potentiometer move? Is it possible to accidentally turn up the volume while in the pocket?


 
 Thank you, Fadem. Good observation. The potentiometer is pretty stiff, but can be accidentally turned up while in pocket.


----------



## KLJTech

dan.gheorghe said:


> Thank you, Fadem. Good observation. The potentiometer is pretty stiff, but can be accidentally turned up while in pocket.


 
  
 I read reviews in which they stated that they volume knob on the E12A is smoother and easier to adjust than the stiffer E12 and I agree, it is easier yet I've never had it move on its own while in my pocket or belt pouch. I think it's not really an issue because the volume knob doesn't stick out beyond the sides of the amp's case. I do find it easier to make very fine volume adjustments with the E12A than my E12 which has a bit stiffer feel to the volume control. If FiiO had made the knob any easier to turn I think it may have THEN had issues turning one way or another, on its own, when being slide in or out of a pocket.
  
 I know that there are a couple other _very nice amps_ in the price range but frankly I'm enjoying the E12A so much that I'm not concerned about it as I'm too busy enjoying the music. The E12A mates perfectly with the two headphone/IEM's (Westone W40's and B&W P7's) that I use most when I'm on the go or simply relaxing at home but not in the room of my main system. It's a pretty clean/neutral sounding amp and I like that if you decide to use the bass boost that you do get a bit more low-end thump, which is nice and tight, but doesn't affect the midrange at all...at least with my gear.


----------



## Fadem

Alright, I received the Sabre DAC today. Major improvement over the headphone out of my HTC One M8 (no audible noise at low volumes with sensitive IEMs!) when listening straight from the DAC, but I need near maximum volume to approach my normal listening playback. Adding the Fiio E6 to the chain returns some of the noise from the headphone out. Quite a bit of distortion at first too, but that was solved by lowering the pre-amp volume in PowerAmp. However, both the red and blue EQ give audible and annoying distortion. I've ordered the E12a to see whether or not it can perform better, should arrive tomorrow.


----------



## mdiogofs

Nice! Share your impressions about how it pairs with the Android/tiny sabre DAC


----------



## DeeKay10

The Android DAC has some sort of amplification built-in then? The PC one sounds awful when listening to it directly. Also, what pre-amp settings does PowerAmp has? As far as I'm aware all of its tweaks are at the software level and as such, are usually off.
 I do recall the E06 having slight hiss, but not enough to bother, particularly while music is playing. The red and blue are +6 and +3 db at the bass department respectively (the red's pretty useless IMO), but I don't remember hearing anything out of the ordinary...
  
 The PC Sabre+E12A is dead silent, if it's any comfort. Clearly, if you still be hearing hiss and distortions after that, something's screwed up either with the phone or the DAC.


----------



## mdiogofs

The Android version makes the volume at the smartphone 100% or muted. It's all or nothing, you absolutely need an amp to control the volume.


----------



## Fadem

Quote:


deekay10 said:


> The Android DAC has some sort of amplification built-in then? The PC one sounds awful when listening to it directly. Also, what pre-amp settings does PowerAmp has? As far as I'm aware all of its tweaks are at the software level and as such, are usually off.
> I do recall the E06 having slight hiss, but not enough to bother, particularly while music is playing. The red and blue are +6 and +3 db at the bass department respectively (the red's pretty useless IMO), but I don't remember hearing anything out of the ordinary...
> 
> The PC Sabre+E12A is dead silent, if it's any comfort. Clearly, if you still be hearing hiss and distortions after that, something's screwed up either with the phone or the DAC.


 
 The DAC responds to Android's volume control. In the PowerAmp equalizer the left most slider is labelled "pre-amp". It seems that the DAC causes the limiter to stop working; I had the pre-amp gain set to max before.
 The E6 bass boosts don't sound well at all, seems to influence quite a bit of the frequency range. Tried just now at work with Phone > DAC > E11k > M50 and there was no such issue with the bass boost.  
  


mdiogofs said:


> The Android version makes the volume at the smartphone 100% or muted. It's all or nothing, you absolutely need an amp to control the volume.


 

 Very odd, mine does not respond like that. I just tried again, the volume controls in the default music player and PowerAmp both control the volume output of the DAC. (HTC One M8, Android 5.0).
  
  
 Anyhow, I should get my E12a today, I'll make a short write up, mostly about the technical capabilities and not so much soundstage changes and whatnot.


----------



## gearofwar

Currenlty looking for more impression on X5  with E12A


----------



## nmatheis

I'm not great at describing the nuances, but I really like E12A and E12 DIY with X5. I typically use one or the other when I have my X5 parked on my desk. If I'm out and about, I don't amp.


----------



## Fadem

Alright, I got the E12A today instead of yesterday. Here's some initial thoughts after listening with the IM70 and the UE900s:
  
 - Pairs very well with the HiFiMeDIY DAC, no noise (hiss) coming from the amplifier during playback unless turned all the way up (*don't do this while playing music with IEMs in ear*, this is seriously loud and could damage your hearing and the drivers!). When turning the volume dial to beyond 9 o'clock when there's no playback, the noise turns into a screeching sound though not too loud.
 - Slight hiss on high gain for my IEMs, but that is to be expected. I think the high gain mode is not needed for the vast majority of IEMs anyway. High gain is +12 dB and interestingly, low gain is stated to be -1 dB in the specifications and not 0 dB as expected.
 - No loud eardrum shattering popping when putting in/removing the 3.5mm jack in/from the amplifiers headphone out 
 - These go very very loud, very fast I have an effective space on the volume dial between 2 and 5 o'clock on low gain to work with before it becomes very uncomfortable - should probably not have the phone to DAC output set to max. volume to have a greater range. (Off = 1 o'clock, On = 2 o'clock and maximum = 11 o'clock)
 - The bass boost is very clean and doesn't intrude in the rest of the spectrum, very clean and polished - I like it a lot, boosts mostly in the lower bass regions.
 - It seems like the DAC+Amp combo is slightly more detailed than just the DAC itself (and especially much, much more detailed than the headphone out of the HTC One M8, which I feel is very noisy for sensitive IEMs) - though this could possibly be attributed to the fact that the volume is higher with the DAC+E12A than with just the DAC.
 - Some artifacts in losssy recordings become quite more apparent with the HiFimeDIY+E12a than compared to using the HTC One M8's headphone out and even just the DAC alone (albeit slightly). I'm undecided on whether or not this is a good thing yet; the amount of lossless files I have in my collection is relatively low at the moment. 
 - The volume potentiometer knob has more resistance to turning it than the one of the E11k; I don't see the E12A's knob turning by itself very easily when placed in a pocket.
 - There was only an L-shaped 3.5mm interconnect cable included. Fiio included both straight 3.5mm and L-shaped interconnects with their other portable amplifiers, at least the ones I have 
 - I need to find a better way to make it into a portable set-up, the provided rubber bands don't really cut it for me, cover too much of the screen.
  
 Based on these observations, I would definitely recommend the E12A to anyone who values clean sound and wants to enhance their listening experience when on the go. Hope this helps!


----------



## gearofwar

^ Do you think straight interconnect plug is a good idea? IMO, it doesn't seem to be convenient for carrying around


----------



## nmatheis

Purchased a few Fiio amps. Only 1 IC included with each. Try Velcro instead of bands.


----------



## gearofwar

Which would be a better amp for IEM, JDS C5 or Fiio E12A , for use with X5? could anyone here recommend me?


----------



## nmatheis

With typical IEM, I get about 25% use of volume pot with E12A. I enjoy the sound signature but wish the low gain were even lower. I haven't heard the JDS C5 but I suspect it's a leaner sound signature than E12A and might have better control over volume with typical IEM. Someone who's heard both will have to confirm, though. 

It's been mentioned before, but I'll post it again. Headfonia compared E12A vs. JDS C5 here: LINK.


----------



## reihead

Question for X5 and E12a owners:
is the pairing of the X5 and the E12a better sounding than the X5 lineout sound?

The lineout of the X5 is remarkable.

If you own the fidue A83 please feel free to add impressions about the pairing.

Thanks


----------



## nmatheis

What do you mean reihead? I imagine we're all using X5 LO -> E12A when we pair them.


----------



## ReizeiMako

I think he mean HO.


----------



## reihead

I mean using the LO with earphones. Of course the sane way of doing this is using the X5 as usb DAC.


----------



## Kerouac

reihead said:


> I mean using the LO with earphones.


 
 Listening with earphones straight out of X5's LO? You know volume on LO is always on max, right?
 I made that mistake once and almost damaged my hearing...


----------



## Replicant187

i know some poeple actually do that with X1's LO, using volume control buttons on the cable. they said it sounds better.


----------



## Kerouac

replicant187 said:


> using volume control buttons on the cable.


 
 Oh yeah...I don't have cables with volume control myself, so I totally forgot about this option


----------



## nmatheis

Won't you have higher impedance straight out of LO? If so, is it really "cleaner LO" people like or do they just like their HP with higher impedance source?


----------



## DeeKay10

I will conclude this by saying that *yes*, the X5+E12A does sound better than listening to the X5's line-out directly, substantially.
 I believe the X1 has some special arrangement in the hardware which might cause its line-out to receive some amplification on the way. I'm yet to listen to a device through line-out that doesn't sound muffled.
  
*Edit*: Thought I'll add this here for clarification.
 Many reviews mention the X5's line-out to be outstanding indeed. What they mean though, is that the X5 as a DAC *paired to an amplifier* (as opposed to other DACs), is great, not its actual line-out port. In that regard, the X1's DAC is allegedly good as well (based on reviews I've read).


----------



## reihead

DeeKay10 thanks.

Indeed listening straight from the LO is not a good idea. That's why I said using the X5 as usb dac, then you can control the volume from the computer.

Anymore impressions?


----------



## gearofwar

^ I noticed X5 is crazy hot when using as a DAC for computer, is it normal?


----------



## reihead

No in my experience. Just normal temperature


----------



## violencer

Well, I use my X5 with my speakers very day and LO is really good sounding to me, however, E12A gives a even better sound, better bass, better mids, better vocal in my experience.


----------



## nmatheis

violencer said:


> Well, I use my X5 with my speakers very day and LO is really good sounding to me, however, E12A gives a even better sound, better bass, better mids, better vocal in my experience.




You use E12A with speakers?


----------



## violencer

nmatheis said:


> You use E12A with speakers?


 

 No, but I tested it with speakers too


----------



## Dobrescu George

Also subbed.
  
 Anyone compared e12a as an amp compared to the amp that exists in ifi idsd micro? for me, ifi idsd micro costs only 2X e12a, and i want to know if i should skip or not e12a..


----------



## audioxxx

The e12a is a bit special when used with IEM's, im hearing detail and clarity that has been taken to the next level over the x5. Fiio may revise the bass boost in the e12a, and change it for the worse, as they did in the standard e12.

So id buy it now, I really like the 
sound of this amp, it just keeps growing on me, there is an obvious difference from the standalone x5. 
 I could pick it blindfolded easy. with a silver interconnect, (not the stock rubbish cable thats in the box, don't use it, it kills the fine details.)


I can't give you a comparison on the idsd, haven't used one, although it's a dac/Amp and doesn't look very mobile/portable, or pocket able. 

But this also depends what you want from your amp. Different horses for Different courses.


----------



## gearofwar

^ i had the damn vague feeling that the stock cooper cable didn't do the job well. I have let the unit burning for 20 hours, i haven't listened to it during this time. Any suggestions for how long i should have it burning?


----------



## audioxxx

I think at least 100hr at minimum to 200hr at job nearly done, and used at moderate amount of output volume. 

This should help all the capacitors get brought up to there intended design output.


----------



## nmatheis

gearofwar said:


> ^ i had the damn vague feeling that the stock cooper cable didn't do the job well. I have let the unit burning for 20 hours, i haven't listened to it during this time. Any suggestions for how long i should have it burning?




Interesting measurements from TheoS53: LINK.


----------



## gearofwar

^ i have seen but i don't believe much. I can tell clearly the different on my Silver cable for JH13 over my stock cooper cable


----------



## audioxxx

There is more going on than that test can possibly perceive, it's possible the test is accurate, it's just that the changes don't affect the tests boundries. However our ears can detect the changes, it's Like a muddy sounding cable, once used to the quality.


----------



## TheoS53

audioxxx said:


> There is more going on than that test can possibly perceive, it's possible the test is accurate, it's just that the changes don't affect the tests boundries. However our ears can detect the changes, it's Like a muddy sounding cable, once used to the quality.


 
 I don't think people realise just how limited our senses are. Testing equipment can measure things way, waaaaaay past our abilities and to a much finer scale than we could ever hope to achieve.

 Our brains can be really weird, it sometimes assumes something which is totally incorrect. Here's a great vid to show just how easily it is fooled:


  
 I've tested another pair of cables, and again I didn't see any difference whatsoever 
  
 But, as I said, I've only been able to test a few cables...so while my results do suggest that there is no difference, it doesn't unequivocally prove it.


----------



## audioxxx

Optical illusions are very different, the hand is faster than the eye,as the saying goes. 
 If you haven't changed all the cables then there will be no noticeable difference, and the main cable probably needs to be top quality. 
 It's a weakest link thing. But if you still don't hear it, don't sweat it out, you just saved a heap of cash.


----------



## nmatheis

Didn't mean to start a sound science argument, guys. Just thought you might find it interesting.


----------



## TheoS53

audioxxx said:


> Optical illusions are very different, the hand is faster than the eye,as the saying goes.
> If you haven't changed all the cables then there will be no noticeable difference, and the main cable probably needs to be top quality.
> It's a weakest link thing. But if you still don't hear it, don't sweat it out, you just saved a heap of cash.


 
 Well the vid isn't a slight of hand illusion, it's a genuine brain failure :-D 
  
 The same effect can be done in Photoshop (usually to illustrate to photographers that they shouldn't trust their own eyes instead of properly calibrating the monitor and using a grey card)
  


nmatheis said:


> Didn't mean to start a sound science argument, guys. Just thought you might find it interesting.


 
 No arguments, a civilized discussion so far


----------



## nmatheis

True, civilized so far - but talk of how cables alter (or can't alter) sound can verge on religion for some folk :wink_face:


----------



## audioxxx

Yes the video is a brain failure and a great example of how important lighting is in media. How ever it is an optical illusion at the end of the day nothing more. 
 But when I use the baldur mrk3 on the home made silver plated Interconnect cable this isn't a lighting trick, and I can hear and pick the changes. 
 But maybe you should try it? The cable is incredible, although not flexible. 
 But it could be your hearings capability and you may not be able to pick the difference, and like I said that's ok as well, for you will never know the difference. And ignerance is blissful.


----------



## TheoS53

audioxxx said:


> Yes the video is a brain failure and a great example of how important lighting is in media. How ever it is an optical illusion at the end of the day nothing more.
> But when I use the baldur mrk3 on the home made silver plated Interconnect cable this isn't a lighting trick, and I can hear and pick the changes.
> But maybe you should try it? The cable is incredible, although not flexible.
> But it could be your hearings capability and you may not be able to pick the difference, and like I said that's ok as well, for you will never know the difference. And ignerance is blissful.


 
 again, you're completely missing the point of the vid. An optical illusion is not a trick like slight of hand is..instead it demonstrates how the brain puts together information (and sometimes creates it) to make sense of something which otherwise wouldn't make sense to it. 
 There's a very good reason why placebos exist...the power of suggestion is probably the greatest of all illusions. If medical placebos can work on the body down to a microscopic level, how can we suggest that it couldn't affect something as simple as an audio signal?
  
 From a scientific stand point, the only way a cable can make a noticeable difference in audio quality would be due to bad connections or shielding, both of which can be of equal quality on either types of cables.
  
 The question is not whether or not you hear a difference, instead it is whether or not that difference actually exists.
  
 But, I could be entirely wrong...I have a rather limited scientific background, and perhaps there is some element that I am missing


----------



## ReizeiMako

I use ALO Green Line M2M and can confirm that it make E12A sound better than stock cable, make vocal more thick and smooth compare to the stock one.


----------



## audioxxx

We may have to agree to disagree, but I still recommend you try this cable, especially on UE ue900/ Shure se535, and maybe other iem. 
 But I agree placebo affect is real, and other facts.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Well, i can try e12a and i know how it sounds, and it is so much better than x5 standalone with headphones that do not need more power. but i cannot test it against a product like idsd micro, for amp functions. basically, i would keep money to buy an idsd first, because it would be more helpfull, as i also have more hard-to-drive headphones.


----------



## bzippy

I just did a shootout with the E12 v1, the E12 std and the Cayin C5. Overall I preferred the E12 v1, and mostly due to its bass boost as it is confined to the sub bass. I sent back the E12 Std and the C5 because the bass boost on both was too much for me. But having lived with the E12 v1 for a couple weeks I am finding this bass boost maybe TOO subtle. With my cans (Senn HD600, 300 ohm) I can barely hear a difference at all. So it's splitting hairs time . . .
  
 I just ordered an E12A to try. I had previously disregarded this amp because it is so clearly marketed for IEM's, but with the E12 (both versions) and the C5, I never have the volume pot past about 1-4 to 1/3 of the way up (about 9:00 to 9:30 on the dial) for the High gain setting and still less than half way (about 11:30) on the Low gain setting. So I imagine that raising the E12A to about 50% (12:00) on the High gain setting would be plenty for the Senns, despite the marketing and 150 ohm max rating.
  
 So does anyone use the E12A with something like the Senn HD600/650/800?
  
 Also interested in more overall comparison of E12A vs E12 low end and bass boosts. There seem to be some who say the E12A has less low end than the E12 std, both boosted and unboosted. I would be happy if the bass boost on the E12A was less, but not the unboosted low end. The published curves actually show the E12A a bit flatter (more low end) than the E12 std unboosted. So I'm confused. The curves also show that the bass boost peak is lower than the E12 std (more like the E12 v1), but still stronger than the E12 v1, which is exactly what I'm after. Anyway, I kinda have no idea what to expect.
  
 Has anyone compared the E12 v1 to the E12A by chance? Or will I be the first?
  
  
 edit:
 btw my source is the X3 LO.


----------



## 40lb

bzippy said:


> I just did a shootout with the E12 v1, the E12 std and the Cayin C5. Overall I preferred the E12 v1, and mostly due to its bass boost as it is confined to the sub bass. I sent back the E12 Std and the C5 because the bass boost on both was too much for me. But having lived with the E12 v1 for a couple weeks I am finding this bass boost maybe TOO subtle. With my cans (Senn HD600, 300 ohm) I can barely hear a difference at all. So it's splitting hairs time . . .
> 
> I just ordered an E12A to try. I had previously disregarded this amp because it is so clearly marketed for IEM's, but with the E12 (both versions) and the C5, I never have the volume pot past about 1-4 to 1/3 of the way up (about 9:00 to 9:30 on the dial) for the High gain setting and still less than half way (about 11:30) on the Low gain setting. So I imagine that raising the E12A to about 50% (12:00) on the High gain setting would be plenty for the Senns, despite the marketing and 150 ohm max rating.
> 
> ...


 

   I can answer one of your questions. From time to time I do use the E12A to drive my Senn HD800, on low gain I can turn the volume up all the way and it will be just perfect for my ears. On high gain give it has more power to reach volumes i would never go to mostly because the treble can be ear piercing.


----------



## bzippy

40lb said:


> I can answer one of your questions. From time to time I do use the E12A to drive my Senn HD800, on low gain I can turn the volume up all the way and it will be just perfect for my ears. On high gain give it has more power to reach volumes i would never go to mostly because the treble can be ear piercing.


 

 really? so you're saying it has significantly different signatures at the two different gain settings, even after matching volumes?


----------



## 40lb

bzippy said:


> really? so you're saying it has significantly different signatures at the two different gain settings, even after matching volumes?



 Not at all, to me the e12a is a very neutral and detailed amp. It doesn't change the sound signature of the headphones you use. The HD800 has high treble and its very noticeable at high volumes. The low gain doesn't go high enough for it to be a problem for me but high gain does drive the HD800 enough to were it can be a problem. When volume matched there is no difference.


----------



## kino lau

Wow...stay away from the forum for a while and there's all kinds of craziness to come back to...lol. I thought I'd pop in here to see what the latest buzz was with the 12A? Am I reading correctly that there's questions about whether cables matter in here now?
  
 Without wishing to read back further than the 3 pages I have already...E12A still sounds awesome. In comparison to the X5 vs X5+12A...X5 sounds great! X5+12A sounds greaterer (better than greater). Add silver cables and I describe the sound as floating in mid air...but I'm listening to different IEM than some others. Still amazes me the amount of money that people are willing to spend on Head-Fi gear, being guilty of it myself.
  
 I'm with nmatheis on wishing there was more usable volume. I can't imagine how the E12 sounds if the 12A has a lower output for IEM's. Maybe FiiO was thinking that everybody would be listening to crappy low efficiency ear buds?
  
 Now I've got to go and find that beautiful custom FW for my X5.


----------



## kino lau

kino lau said:


> Wow...stay away from the forum for a while and there's all kinds of craziness to come back to...lol. I thought I'd pop in here to see what the latest buzz was with the 12A? Am I reading correctly that there's questions about whether cables matter in here now?
> 
> Without wishing to read back further than the 3 pages I have already...E12A still sounds awesome. In comparison to the X5 vs X5+12A...X5 sounds great! X5+12A sounds greaterer (better than greater). Add silver cables and I describe the sound as floating in mid air...but I'm listening to different IEM than some others. Still amazes me the amount of money that people are willing to spend on Head-Fi gear, being guilty of it myself.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I popped into the X5 custom FW thread and better understand the "silver cable" debate...if there is one. I bought the FiiO stack kit and the only thing I even used was the rubber feet, because the frame doesn't fit properly with my Dignis leather case. Personally...I don't know that the FiiO cable supplied with the kit does anything other than provide the interlink between the two components. I've spent money on MIT interconnects in the past for my home system (OK...only one for my CD player), and never bothered to A/B the difference. But since the fancy new cable comes with the stack kit...there's really no reason to think that it doesn't help in some way, since you already have it in hand and you're not having to spend extra money for but that one piece alone. I had a silver litz link made up at the same time as my headphone cable. For all I know, the link made all the difference in the sound and the headphone cable did absolutely nothing. But Ted at HPL gave me a great deal on everything I wanted so...
  
 I'll shut up now...


----------



## nmatheis

kino lau said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Haven't used E12 in awhile. I find I get similar usable range out of the volume pot on E12A and E12 DIY. Cayin C5 and Fiio E11K gave virtually no range with IEM. 

AsianInvasion is on a serious X5 theming tear right now, IMHO!!!


----------



## kino lau

nmatheis said:


> Haven't used E12 in awhile. I find I get similar usable range out of the volume pot on E12A and E12 DIY. Cayin C5 and Fiio E11K gave virtually no range with IEM.
> 
> AsianInvasion is on a serious X5 theming tear right now, IMHO!!!


 
 I find myself starting to listen at low(er) volumes and become accustomed to the detail. As I'm as to pick out the small nuances, I increase the volume in small amounts and accustom myself to that volume each time, until I finally reach a volume that fails to bring out further detail without becoming too loud. It's not a matter of one components performance...it's the combination of each piece that contributes to the final sound. I'm happy enough to know that I won't be spending any money on additional gear for a while.


----------



## bzippy

40lb said:


> Not at all, to me the e12a is a very neutral and detailed amp. It doesn't change the sound signature of the headphones you use. The HD800 has high treble and its very noticeable at high volumes. The low gain doesn't go high enough for it to be a problem for me but high gain does drive the HD800 enough to were it can be a problem. When volume matched there is no difference.


 
 Oh ok. Sorry, i get what you mean now. Cool, that's good to know. Thanks.


----------



## gearofwar

Do you guys think you would grab anything like Cypher Piccolo or any IEM amp soon? I'm wondering if E12A is already good enough.


----------



## nmatheis

Haven't really looked into other IEM amp...


----------



## WitzyZed

Are ya'll talking about the L16 interconnect?
For only $13 on amazon (last i checked) the little sucker is a steal. Sturdy as can be, has a great weight to it.
I sold it along with my E12 V2, so once I get my E12A I'll get another.
There's an L17 right angle with the same construction, too, IIRC, that comes with the X1 stacking kit.


----------



## KLJTech

gearofwar said:


> Do you guys think you would grab anything like Cypher Piccolo or any IEM amp soon? I'm wondering if E12A is already good enough.


 
  
 I'm going to stick with the E12A for now, it has a synergy with the Westone W40's that I love and does a wonderful job with the B&W P7's.


----------



## TheoS53

I'm really in the mood to get the E12A...but I already have the E12..so I really don't know if it would be worth it.....and, and, I love the colour matchingness with the X5.


----------



## Kerouac

I also have the E12, but because I mainly listen with iem's these days and because the E12 has way too much hiss imo, I will surely get the E12A soon...from what I've read it also complements the sound signature of the Cayin C5 that I already have very well: http://www.head-fi.org/t/729545/the-new-cayin-c5-portable-power-house/1290#post_11329527


----------



## Dobrescu George

e12a is worth a lot if you don't need the power. it does not have much more power, in fact it has about the same power as fiio x5. but it it's op-amps are just so nice! 
  
 it adds so much to music with low resistance iems and headphones...


----------



## bzippy

theos53 said:


> I'm really in the mood to get the E12A...but I already have the E12..so I really don't know if it would be worth it.....and, and, I love the colour matchingness with the X5.


 

 i hear ya. i also really like how the E12 looks stacked with my X3. but alas, my search for the perfect bass boost to pair with my HD600's requires that an E12A be given a chance. so one will be arriving at my door tomorrow. i almost hope the E12 wins. we'll see.


----------



## kino lau

I think that I was the first member to actually have the E12A in their hands (perhaps the 2nd). Honestly, the only reason I don't have an E12 was due to all of the planets being in alignment and seeing the announcement of the 12A on FiiO's site before I pulled the trigger on the 12 or a 12DIY. I can't see myself shopping for another amp, just because there's no reason to. I actually don't even listen through my IEM's all that much. Unless I'm in bed or I'm going to be stuck somewhere for a while and remembered to pack the 846's...I typically just use the Coax Out on the X5 into one of my home set-up's. I had only planned on picking up a DSP until I wound up in here reading reviews. Y'all bad influences on the po folk like me...lol.


----------



## bzippy

dobrescu george said:


> e12a is worth a lot if you don't need the power. it does not have much more power, in fact it has about the same power as fiio x5. but it it's op-amps are just so nice!
> 
> it adds so much to music with low resistance iems and headphones...


 

 this is the sort of post that has kept me away from the E12A as an HD600 user. but having since read multiple reports of the E12A beautifully driving the HD600/650/800 (including right above you on this page), i have come to regard posts like yours as grossly inaccurate and misleading. but i will find out first hand tomorrow when my E12A arrives. you may well be in for an apology from me.


----------



## gearofwar

^e12a does a fine job driving my HD650,  i do enjoy it sometimes; however, don't expect it to be on level of let's say A desktop tube-amp


----------



## TheoS53

I'm curious...are the graphs on Fiio's website correct? It states that the E12A has a 4dB bass boost, but the graph shows more than 6dB.
  
 The distortion graph also shows significantly more distortion for the E12A as compared to the E12


----------



## nmatheis

Pretty sure the graphs are switched. E12A's bass boost is more focused and subtle than E12.


----------



## KLJTech

nmatheis said:


> Pretty sure the graphs are switched. E12A's bass boost is more focused and subtle than E12.


 
  
 Agreed, the E12A's bass is shelved down a bit from the E12 and it doesn't bleed into the midrange at all. I've been shown the graphs and that's not what I'm hearing with my headphones and I've used both amps. Mistakes happen...both amps are great deals, I just happen to prefer the E12A and feel that it's a bargain.


----------



## nmatheis

E12 DIY > E12A > E12 > E11K > E11


----------



## ClieOS

theos53 said:


> I'm curious...are the graphs on Fiio's website correct? It states that the E12A has a 4dB bass boost, but the graph shows more than 6dB.
> 
> The distortion graph also shows significantly more distortion for the E12A as compared to the E12


 
  
 +4dB @ 100Hz is probably what it meant. Also, I think the bass boost graph on E12 is from batch 1 (or v1 as some called it), so it is not the same as the majority of the V2 in the market which has a bigger bass boost.
  
 E12 has an opamp known for very low distortion figure (v2 is even more so). Regardless, you still won't humanly possible to hear the distortion on E12A.


----------



## audioxxx

To those interested in getting this amplifier to its maximum potential this IC is looking very nice, made from one of the best cable I have seen. 

http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=4139

And for the DIY option:

http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=3006


----------



## oscarc

I am debating whether I should get the E12A or the JDS Labs C5. I am wondering if the C5 is worth $30 more or if the E12A is sufficient for my needs. I would be using to drive my X1s, K7XX (when they come) and Yamaha EPH-100 IEMs for my work commute.


----------



## xaddictionx

oscarc said:


> I am debating whether I should get the E12A or the JDS Labs C5. I am wondering if the C5 is worth $30 more or if the E12A is sufficient for my needs. I would be using to drive my X1s, K7XX (when they come) and Yamaha EPH-100 IEMs for my work commute.



Same here. Debating over the JDS C5 and the E12A..


----------



## ClieOS

I'll recommend E12A over C5. Both are excellent amp, but E12A has a wider soundstage and cleaner image. Everything sounds grander on E12A. Never listen to K7XX before, though EPH-100 doesn't really need much amping. But if output power is a concern, E12A is higher as well.


----------



## bzippy

gearofwar said:


> ^e12a does a fine job driving my HD650,  i do enjoy it sometimes; however, don't expect it to be on level of let's say A desktop tube-amp


 

 by this do you mean power output or just performance in general? in either case i am not under the illusion that this or any portable amp can do what a nice desktop amp can do. my only real concern is whether the E12A will handily drive my HD600's with the same level of excellent performance that the IEM folks are all reporting. and it sounds like it will. though i won't be able to hear for myself today like i thought would, due to a weather related delivery delay.


----------



## Pianist

clieos said:


> I'll recommend E12A over C5. Both are excellent amp, but E12A has a wider soundstage and cleaner image. Everything sounds grander on E12A. Never listen to K7XX before, though EPH-100 doesn't really need much amping. But if output power is a concern, E12A is higher as well.


 
  
 I agree with this, except that I think the C5 actually has a wider soundstage/wider stereo separation, while E12A is able to produce greater soundstage depth.
  


bzippy said:


> by this do you mean power output or just performance in general? in either case i am not under the illusion that this or any portable amp can do what a nice desktop amp can do. my only real concern is whether the E12A will handily drive my HD600's with the same level of excellent performance that the IEM folks are all reporting. and it sounds like it will. though i won't be able to hear for myself today like i thought would, due to a weather related delivery delay.


 
  
 The E12A could drive my HE-500s and Q701 quite well, so it should be able to drive HD600s OK also, just don't expect to get the full potential out of the Sennheisers with the Fiio amp. It should be at least a very listenable combo though.
  
 Actually, I just replaced my E12A with a Schiit Vali a few days ago and I am actually not even sure yet if the Vali can drive my HE-500 and Q701 better than the E12A did. In fact, so far I feel that HE-500 actually sounded better out of the E12A. I really miss the E12A now...


----------



## bzippy

pianist said:


> I agree with this, except that I think the C5 actually has a wider soundstage/wider stereo separation, while E12A is able to produce greater soundstage depth.
> 
> 
> The E12A could drive my HE-500s and Q701 quite well, so it should be able to drive HD600s OK also, just don't expect to get the full potential out of the Sennheisers with the Fiio amp. It should be at least a very listenable combo though.
> ...


 
 ok, thanks. but i just can't get past that 'full potential' sort of comment. again, are you saying this due to lack of power or general low amp quality relative to a nice desktop amp?
  
 and one more thing on the power topic:
 here's my experience driving the HD600's with the E12 (the only amp i own). on the High gain setting i set the volume knob at about 9:00-10:30, depending on the recording. on the Low gain setting that volume matches at about 11:00-12:00. so in other words i don't come close to running out of headroom on the E12, not even when set to Low gain. and this truly is as high as i'd ever set it because i'm trying to preserve my hearing (i already have moderate tinnitus from musical abuse). i would think the E12A High setting has more power than the E12 Low gain setting, no?


----------



## gearofwar

Does anyone here have exp with DAP like NW-ZX1, DX90, DX100 in comparison with X5+E12A combo? could it be able to reach those higher lvl?


----------



## Dobrescu George

power does not mean volume. 
  
 at first i belived that more power would equal more volume, but my cowon j3 is able to make hd600 and hd650 to sound very loud, even though it has only 32mw, compared with ~400mw of fiio x5, e12a, and ~880mw of e12.
  
 by adding more power you add more potential power that makes the driver move. on short, if you don't have enough power the music sound less interesting, you get less details, less micro details, less bass sometimes, and less dynamic range. 
  
 i experienced this when first testing headphones, expecting a very powerfull amp to drive hd800 much louder, i discovered that e12 can make hd800 sound at louder than listenable volumes, but something was missing. when adding more power from a woo audio the sound was much better. something solid state also did magic, and i preffer solid state amp, but i forgot the name of the amp that i used when testing.
  
 by saying that e12a does not have enough power i mean that it will not do the magic it does with iems with big hard to drive cans. hd650 and hd600 are pretty much hard to drive, depending on who you ask, and what you expect out of them.
  
 please do not take my words as they are bad words, i am trying to help, with what little knowledge i have ^_^.


----------



## ClieOS

First of, Power = Voltage x Current.
  
 In the headphone world, power measurement means driving a 1kHz signal into a fixed load (usually 16 or 32ohm) until distortion reaches 1%, then you measure the voltage and current output and calculate the power. Volume is but a function of voltage, so it doesn't reflect how well the load is driven as it doesn't take into the account of how much and how fast the current output of the amp can do. Usually the higher the current output an amp is capable of, the less likely you will be able to stress it (*the amp get more stressed as it reaches its limit). That means the amp still has enough headroom driving a load optimally, However, it doesn't mean two amp that are both capable of driving a set of headphone will result in identical sound.


----------



## WitzyZed

oscarc said:


> I am debating whether I should get the E12A or the JDS Labs C5. I am wondering if the C5 is worth $30 more or if the E12A is sufficient for my needs. I would be using to drive my X1s, K7XX (when they come) and Yamaha EPH-100 IEMs for my work commute.



If you get the E12A please share thoughts on synergy with K7XX, I hope to use that same combo


----------



## oscarc

witzyzed said:


> If you get the E12A please share thoughts on synergy with K7XX, I hope to use that same combo


 
 Will do! I was part of the March K7xx drop (1,133rd participant), but just got the shipping notice this morning! It is a nice and exciting surprise for the day.


----------



## palermo

Sorry to ask here, how can I open the enclosure this E12A ? Jonyoo already did and post in couple pages back.
 I've tried pull the case back but bass button blocked it.


----------



## bzippy

dobrescu george said:


> power does not mean volume.
> 
> at first i belived that more power would equal more volume, but my cowon j3 is able to make hd600 and hd650 to sound very loud, even though it has only 32mw, compared with ~400mw of fiio x5, e12a, and ~880mw of e12.
> 
> ...


 

 yes, of course. i think you're right and i forgot about this aspect. the same is true in the electric guitar world: even though a 50W amp and a 100W amp get to very nearly the same volumes, you can definitely hear (and feel) that the 100W amp has more impact and largess. so if the E12A does indeed have a bass boost more to my liking than the E12 v1, i hope the difference in power will not be noticeable. because i doubt a marginally better bass boost would be enough to overcome an overall "something missing" like you describe (and i think i know exactly what you mean by that). thanks.


----------



## TripBitShooter

I'm surprised this thread I created has received so many responses. Keep up the great discussion guys!


----------



## violencer

audioxxx said:


> To those interested in getting this amplifier to its maximum potential this IC is looking very nice, made from one of the best cable I have seen.
> 
> http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=4139
> 
> ...


 

 Can you please explain, what the difference between Nordost Odin Top-rated Silver Plated vs 7N (99,99999%) OCC Silver Plated?


----------



## audioxxx

The Odin cable seems to give a rich tone and convey an improvement to voice and a new depth tonnes, low notes appear from no where, on any good source, the changes can be apreatiated on an s3 phone, 
which transforms the UE900 iem's into something they were not before the cable update, it is night and day the difference, not just a subtle improvement. 
like the occ cable which also makes subtle tone changes where , the Odin is simply magic to these ears. 

It's like a a highly developed low loss coaxial cable, made for audio. The minimum amount of power is efficiently delivered to the drivers, 
Like I have mentioned before, it is a weakest link thing, where all the cables upgraded is essential to appreciate the changes.


----------



## violencer

*audioxxx*, if it true, I should try it without a doubt. 
 What do you think about this cable? http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=1235
 looking for a articulate bass improvements, better bass speed and notes without emphasize on low and mids.
  
 About Fiio silver interconnect cable, yes it has a better details, better mids, smoother sound, but emphasized sub bass is not good in quality, slow, reminds me a X5 bass quality which is not good for such as music genre as IDM, for example try to listen to Displacer - Electric Dreams album with stock and Fiio silver interconnect cable. For me a difference is noticeable...


----------



## audioxxx

Violencer, 
That looks like a very good hybrid cable for the 12a, I'd like to compare them, it's a shame these IC cables are so costly it's impossible to try them all.
Well on my budget anyway. 
 But I think as long as you update that stock 12a cable with a higher quality one, the 12a can be improved.
Maybe ask the lunashop what the difference are, if he knows.


----------



## ClieOS

It is an E12A thread, why not open a new thread in the cable sub-forum?


----------



## ClieOS

pianist said:


> I agree with this, except that I think the C5 actually has a wider soundstage/wider stereo separation, while E12A is able to produce greater soundstage depth.


 
  
 Not sure which you are referring to, but we are talking about JDS Labs C5, not Cayin C5.


----------



## audioxxx

Good point. Back to the e12a


----------



## gearofwar

I used to have JDS C5 before having it sold. The memory i could get is it has black background, very dead silent. As for detail and other thing i didn't see that improvement over iphone 4 with Neutron, maybe also because i got HDP R10 which got it sold off to someone


----------



## Pianist

clieos said:


> Not sure which you are referring to, but we are talking about JDS Labs C5, not Cayin C5.


 
  
 Oops, sorry then - I thought you were talking about Cayin C5.


----------



## gearofwar

The thread seems to be dead lol any more impressions on it so far guys?


----------



## KLJTech

Everyone must be off enjoying their music...I've been using the E12A every day and I still love it.


----------



## bzippy

ok, i'll add some thoughts. just got an E12A a few days ago to compare to my E12 v1 for use with my HD600's. my first impression is that everyone who says the E12A is not ideal for harder to drive cans are right, despite my hope to the contrary. there's just something missing compared to the E12. it's a little flat i think. considering everything about the E12A that is supposed to be better than the E12, then I am assuming it's about the lack of power. it's too bad because there are some things i prefer about the E12A, especially the smoother volume control and the non-recessed gain switch. and as for bass boost, i might still give the edge to the E12 v1 even though i was expecting to like the E12A's more, which is still just a bit too much for me. looks like i prefer too subtle to too much when it comes to bass boost (part of this bass boost journey i'm on feels like a bit of a moving target because either my ear is getting used to the HD600's low end or they are breaking in and filling out down there, not sure which. but that's another thread). so anyway, i'll give it a few more days of testing to confirm these impressions, but most likely the E12A is going back.


----------



## ph0n6

bzippy said:


> ok, i'll add some thoughts. just got an E12A a few days ago to compare to my E12 v1 for use with my HD600's. my first impression is that everyone who says the E12A is not ideal for harder to drive cans are right, despite my hope to the contrary. there's just something missing compared to the E12. it's a little flat i think. considering everything about the E12A that is supposed to be better than the E12, then I am assuming it's about the lack of power. it's too bad because there are some things i prefer about the E12A, especially the smoother volume control and the non-recessed gain switch. and as for bass boost, i might still give the edge to the E12 v1 even though i was expecting to like the E12A's more, which is still just a bit too much for me. looks like i prefer too subtle to too much when it comes to bass boost (part of this bass boost journey i'm on feels like a bit of a moving target because either my ear is getting used to the HD600's low end or they are breaking in and filling out down there, not sure which. but that's another thread). so anyway, i'll give it a few more days of testing to confirm these impressions, but most likely the E12A is going back.


 
 They did specifically call it IEM edition afterall. It's a heaven for us IEM user but the HD600 is kinda too much. There are plenty of amp for fullsize out there but can't say the same for IEM, so it's nice to see Fiio listen to their customer.


----------



## bzippy

ph0n6 said:


> They did specifically call it IEM edition afterall. It's a heaven for us IEM user but the HD600 is kinda too much. There are plenty of amp for fullsize out there but can't say the same for IEM, so it's nice to see Fiio listen to their customer.


 

 of course you're right. i didn't mean it as a criticism of the E12A by any means. i was hoping it might work for me despite the high likelihood that it is the wrong tool for the job, so i had to try it.


----------



## Tuneslover

Hi all! I am an E11K owner. I have it paired with an iPod Classic 160G (AIFF 16/44.1 ripped CD collection). My headphones are the on-ear Beyerdynamic DT1350's. I use this rig as my on-the-go system. Although this combo sounds pretty good, it certainly doesn't compete with my desktop systems and headphones. I'm just craving more from my portable system. So after some research (including everyone's thoughts and comments on this thread) today I am planning to purchase the E12a. I am confident that I will hear a noticeable improvement in sound quality over the E11K (still an awesome amp for the price). I also intend to use this setup as a bedside system.

I have the HE500 & HD650 which are used on my desktop systems but I am curious to hear how the E12a can handle them. I'll post my impressions in a while.


----------



## Dobrescu George

tuneslover said:


> Hi all! I am an E11K owner. I have it paired with an iPod Classic 160G (AIFF 16/44.1 ripped CD collection). My headphones are the on-ear Beyerdynamic DT1350's. I use this rig as my on-the-go system. Although this combo sounds pretty good, it certainly doesn't compete with my desktop systems and headphones. I'm just craving more from my portable system. So after some research (including everyone's thoughts and comments on this thread) today I am planning to purchase the E12a. I am confident that I will hear a noticeable improvement in sound quality over the E11K (still an awesome amp for the price). I also intend to use this setup as a bedside system.
> 
> I have the HE500 & HD650 which are used on my desktop systems but I am curious to hear how the E12a can handle them. I'll post my impressions in a while.


 
 it cannot drive either of them...
  
 i really do not understand why would anyone ever try a very very very great amp for iems with full headphones.
  
 it really was made for driving iems, it has the same amount of power as x5, so it drives almost fine what fiio x5 can drive. and as far as i know x5 cannot drive hd650 to full potential. it does not like like it can he500 either. your dt on the other hand, should reallt sound better,


----------



## kino lau

So FiiO develops an amp  specifically for IEM's. Have folks seen some of the questions asked about using the E12A for different applications on Amazon? lol


----------



## Dobrescu George

kino lau said:


> So FiiO develops an amp  specifically for IEM's. Have folks seen some of the questions asked about using the E12A for different applications on Amazon? lol


 
 link, please?
  
 i cannot stop from laughing every sinlge time i go to amazon and ebay of audioquest 30.000$ cables. the comments are just amazing...


----------



## ph0n6

Chill. He just want to try it on with the HD650 and the HE500, his main use is for the DT1350. The E12A can handle up to 150ohm, so 80 shoudn't be a problem.


----------



## Dobrescu George

ph0n6 said:


> Chill. He just want to try it on with the HD650 and the HE500, his main use is for the DT1350. The E12A can handle up to 150ohm, so 80 shoudn't be a problem.


 
 yes. true. 
  
 if one likes how dt1350 sound, he will like much more with e12a. but hd650 and he500 are very power hungry, should only be tried with more powerfull amps.


----------



## ph0n6

dobrescu george said:


> yes. true.
> 
> if one likes how dt1350 sound, he will like much more with e12a. but hd650 and he500 are very power hungry, should only be tried with more powerfull amps.


 
 I would do the same if I were him though, for the sake of science that is


----------



## Mcgeggy

Hi. I have some Q's about using something like the E12A to improve the overall SQ with iem's.
  
 Currently I am cycling through the iem's in my sig, and my favorites so far are the _RE-400_ and the _VSD3_. My dap is the Xduoo X2, which has the following specs:
  

Output Power: 250mW (32 ohm load) 
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20KHz (+/- 0.5dB)
Gain : +3dB
Distortion Factor: 0.005% (1KHz)
S/N: 107dB
 

Suitable Earphone Impedance: 8--300ohm
 
  
 Would an amp like the* E12A*, *Cayin C5*, or *JDS C5* be worthwhile? Will my iem's sound be improved? Or no because my X2 dap only has a headphone out and already has a decent enough amp? Or no because my iem collection thus far are easily enough driven?
  
 I don't mind investing the $ into a decent portable headphone amp like those I listed if it is something I can "grow into" as I continue to try out better and better iem's, or upgrade to a better dap. But I will hold off for now if there is nothing to be gained from using such an amp with my current inventory. I mainly listen to metal at loudish volumes for no more than 30 minutes at a time, and alternative rock/electronic at normal volume for longer periods, both flac from cd's.


----------



## bzippy

^ i think most would say that a decent portable amp is noticeably better than the amp in most DAP's. i can't say i've tried enough DAP's to confirm this myself, but this is what i've read. it's certainly true for my FiiO X3. perhaps once you get into the very high end DAP's these differences might start to blur. and I don't know anything about your xDuoo. and by the way you won't really get the benefit of the amp by using a DAP's headphone jack (aka "double amping"). the best way is to bypass the DAP's amp via a line out jack if your DAP has one. if your DAP doesn't have a line out then it might be best to wait until you are prepared to replace that too.
  
 as for which amp is best, that is as personal of a decision as headphone choice. and it also tends to be an exercise in amp/headphone pairing. if you're picky, expect to go through a few amps before you start to understand what your ears & headphones need. i suggest either going used or a store with a good return policy to reduce risk of wasting money.
  
 since you're using iem's i think a really good place to start is indeed the E12A. in fact you might like it enough and not feel compelled to try anything else. but yes, the Cayin C5 is also super nice. many consider the nature of the bass boost to be the deciding factor when choosing among great portable amps, which will be highly dependent on your specific iem's. thus the concept of 'pairing' amp & headphones.
  
 good luck.


----------



## ph0n6

mcgeggy said:


> Hi. I have some Q's about using something like the E12A to improve the overall SQ with iem's.
> 
> Currently I am cycling through the iem's in my sig, and my favorites so far are the _RE-400_ and the _VSD3_. My dap is the Xduoo X2, which has the following specs:
> 
> ...


 
 I would say invest your $ on a 200$ earphones yields a much better result. Amplifier are mostly for hard to drive headphones. On the other hand, these IEM specified amp can improve the SQ, but to me they only shine with some really distinctive IEM (in my case the Heaven V with horrible hiss directly to the DX50, along with huge improvement in overall SQ, though admittedly my IEM is 200$). In your specific case these 2 are really easy to drive (even the smartphone crappy amplifier can sound decent with them), so I doubt an amp can improve as much as a better headphone. Just my 2 cent.


----------



## Dobrescu George

mcgeggy said:


> Hi. I have some Q's about using something like the E12A to improve the overall SQ with iem's.
> 
> Currently I am cycling through the iem's in my sig, and my favorites so far are the _RE-400_ and the _VSD3_. My dap is the Xduoo X2, which has the following specs:
> 
> ...


 
 the e12a would help you, but the dac has no line out. this could turn out problematic, as it would degrade the sound a little.
 i am no expert in dacs but, fiio x1 would also be a good place to look, i know that it has an integrated line out, so it would receive the help from e12a whils being a very very good dap, and dac. i have no ideea if it can be used as a usb DAC.
  
 but e12a is a great piece of equipment. still it would be very very smart from you to give a listen before buying.


----------



## Replicant187

yeah, investing on better iem/headphones always should be the first priority.


----------



## Dobrescu George

replicant187 said:


> yeah, investing on better iem/headphones always should be the first priority.


 
 totally true. amps come in handy when you found and own your best headphones, and want to get out the last 5% out of them.


----------



## bzippy

ph0n6 said:


> I would do the same if I were him though, for the sake of science that is


 

 yep. always a good idea to try things yourself instead of taking internet chatter as truth. although in this case even the maker says it's for IEM's, so definitely a long shot. anyway it didn't stop me from trying one with my Senns and i'm glad i did, even though i did end up concluding that it is indeed underpowered for my needs.


----------



## Tuneslover

dobrescu george said:


> it cannot drive either of them...
> 
> i really do not understand why would anyone ever try a very very very great amp for iems with full headphones.
> 
> it really was made for driving iems, it has the same amount of power as x5, so it drives almost fine what fiio x5 can drive. and as far as i know x5 cannot drive hd650 to full potential. it does not like like it can he500 either. your dt on the other hand, should reallt sound better,




Hey Skerry2006aj:

To be CLEAR my beloved HE500 & HD650's are being driven by my SCHIIT Magni 2Über on my computer system and my Lake People G109S on my main system. Beautifully I might add. The last line in my post said that I am "curious to hear how the E12a can handle them" (aforementioned headphones). As in a simple test of curiosity. OK?

I had a nice listening session at the Headphone Shop (in Toronto, Canada) this morning comparing the E11K with the E12a. Initial impressions...wider soundstage, airier, clearer. Plenty of power in LO gain, ample bass with Bass Boost OFF. Jet black silence, no channel imbalance even when turning volume down to minimal volume. I then tried it without the stock cable (& FiiO 30 pin line out adaptor), instead using an ADL iD30PL to link my iPod Classic to the E12a. Anyone who thinks a decent after market cable isn't noticeably better seriously needs to have their hearing checked. This cable very noticeably heightened the clarity over the stock cable. I would have been a fool to not buy it along with the E12a. Yup got them both. Presently listening to my combo. Terrific upgrade (even before burn-in)!!


----------



## Mcgeggy

Thanks for all of the feedback everyone. It affirms what I was thinking. I agree I should think about a better dap with a line out (lo out, correct?) so I do not lose anything from double amping. The XDuoo X2 is a great sounding dap for $55. But I'm sure there are more features as well as a line out on something that would be an upgrade, such as the Fiio X1.
  
 So my next question is: If I intend to ALWAYS use a portable amp, such as the E12A, with a dap with a line out, then should I just buy the cheapest line out dap? Since I don't care about the dap's internal amp? Or is a better/pricier dap the better option since I need a quality internal dac also?
  
 There does not seem to be many dap's with line out in the $100 range other than the Fiio X1. But I've seen others say that a RockBoxed Sansa Clip+ set to volume 0db will do a good job mimicking a line out into an amp...
  
 I am also considering for my next iem HiFiMan RE-600, Dunu DN-1000, and Vsonic GR07BE...
  
 Thank you again for all of your thoughtful replies to my original question!


----------



## Dobrescu George

mcgeggy said:


> Thanks for all of the feedback everyone. It affirms what I was thinking. I agree I should think about a better dap with a line out (lo out, correct?) so I do not lose anything from double amping. The XDuoo X2 is a great sounding dap for $55. But I'm sure there are more features as well as a line out on something that would be an upgrade, such as the Fiio X1.
> 
> So my next question is: If I intend to ALWAYS use a portable amp, such as the E12A, with a dap with a line out, then should I just buy the cheapest line out dap? Since I don't care about the dap's internal amp? Or is a better/pricier dap the better option since I need a quality internal dac also?
> 
> ...


 
 x1 can do the trick..
  
 we are not in sound science right?.. then you can consider that the lower you pay, the lower quality of DAC will be, but x1 is awesome quality for the price.
  
 consider that it will not improove as much as new iems will. i had never heared xduo, so i do not know how much x1 can improove, but it is a safe bet that you can get more with buying new iems than amp and dac.
  
  


tuneslover said:


> Hey Skerry2006aj:
> 
> To be CLEAR my beloved HE500 & HD650's are being driven by my SCHIIT Magni 2Über on my computer system and my Lake People G109S on my main system. Beautifully I might add. The last line in my post said that I am "curious to hear how the E12a can handle them" (aforementioned headphones). As in a simple test of curiosity. OK?
> 
> I had a nice listening session at the Headphone Shop (in Toronto, Canada) this morning comparing the E11K with the E12a. Initial impressions...wider soundstage, airier, clearer. Plenty of power in LO gain, ample bass with Bass Boost OFF. Jet black silence, no channel imbalance even when turning volume down to minimal volume. I then tried it without the stock cable (& FiiO 30 pin line out adaptor), instead using an ADL iD30PL to link my iPod Classic to the E12a. Anyone who thinks a decent after market cable isn't noticeably better seriously needs to have their hearing checked. This cable very noticeably heightened the clarity over the stock cable. I would have been a fool to not buy it along with the E12a. Yup got them both. Presently listening to my combo. Terrific upgrade (even before burn-in)!!


 
 you should not be so anoyed, man. i was just saying. i use daily my fiio x5 as my source and it has about the same driving power as e 12a/ anyways, i am happy that you found something you like!


----------



## nmatheis

Mcgeggy: Agree about getting some better IEM or DAP first. As far as amps go, IMHO Cayin C5 is too powerful for sensitive IEM. You won't be able to turn the volume pot very far before reaching eat splitting levels. C5 bass boost is also a take it or leave it thing. I really didn't like it, as it wasn't tightly focused and added too much warmth for my preferences. Of course, YMMV.


----------



## Mcgeggy

Thanks Skerry2006aj and nmatheis - that makes sense to me. I will put my focus on finding the best iem for my musical taste and sound signature preference, then move onto the X1 most likely, before coming back to the idea of adding a portable amp to the equation.


----------



## bzippy

mcgeggy said:


> Thanks Skerry2006aj and nmatheis - that makes sense to me. I will put my focus on finding the best iem for my musical taste and sound signature preference, then move onto the X1 most likely, before coming back to the idea of adding a portable amp to the equation.


 

 i think you are doing the right thing by following this great advice. having harder to drive cans myself, the amp may be more important in my situation than yours. once you settle on a nice iem, and then a possible dac upgrade with a new dap, you may find that you don't get much improvement from an amp. so best to take one step at a time and see what real improvement each upgrade offers. i agree that you will likely see the single largest improvement with iem's, as is the case with speakers on a full size system.


----------



## Mcgeggy

bzippy said:


> i think you are doing the right thing by following this great advice. having harder to drive cans myself, the amp may be more important in my situation than yours. once you settle on a nice iem, and then a possible dac upgrade with a new dap, you may find that you don't get much improvement from an amp. so best to take one step at a time and see what real improvement each upgrade offers. i agree that you will likely see the single largest improvement with iem's, as is the case with speakers on a full size system.


 

 Yes. Sometimes it is tough "mentally" to realize this. It seems that $150-200 gets you a lot more in a piece of hardware, like those amps, then in just another iem. Holding an E12A in your hands feels like it will do so much more for the sound then holding an iem. But alas, it is not in the holding, is it? It is in the sound inside your ears!


----------



## Tuneslover

dobrescu george said:


> x1 can do the trick..
> 
> we are not in sound science right?.. then you can consider that the lower you pay, the lower quality of DAC will be, but x1 is awesome quality for the price.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm not annoyed...I'm just clarifying for you what I was just saying.  Peace.


----------



## bzippy

dobrescu george said:


> power does not mean volume.
> 
> at first i belived that more power would equal more volume, but my cowon j3 is able to make hd600 and hd650 to sound very loud, even though it has only 32mw, compared with ~400mw of fiio x5, e12a, and ~880mw of e12.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


dobrescu george said:


> it cannot drive either of them...
> 
> i really do not understand why would anyone ever try a very very very great amp for iems with full headphones.
> 
> it really was made for driving iems, it has the same amount of power as x5, so it drives almost fine what fiio x5 can drive. and as far as i know x5 cannot drive hd650 to full potential. it does not like like it can he500 either. your dt on the other hand, should reallt sound better,


 
  
  


dobrescu george said:


> yes. true.
> 
> if one likes how dt1350 sound, he will like much more with e12a. but hd650 and he500 are very power hungry, should only be tried with more powerfull amps.


 
  
 it seems to be almost a consensus in this thread that a higher powered amp will sound better driving cans like Senns & Beyers than a lowered powered one (eg. E12 vs E12A), even when the volumes are matched and nowhere near either amp's max output. i don't understand this, so i started a thread in Sound Science asking what's behind it (here it is). two responses so far are saying the opposite: there should be no difference. if some of you want to go over there and make your case, i'd love to read it.


----------



## OficialWaranty

Hi, this is my first post at head-fi. Would any kind soul please share some feedback on the SQ of the Shure SE535 paired with an iphone6, amped with the E12A.


----------



## ph0n6

oficialwaranty said:


> Hi, this is my first post at head-fi. Would any kind soul please share some feedback on the SQ of the Shure SE535 paired with an iphone6, amped with the E12A.


 
 An amp should be optimally used with a Line Out which can bypass the stock amplifier inside your phone. Unfortunately no phone in this world has a true Line Out, so I suggest spending your money on a better pair of headphones rather than finding an amp. Or buy a portable Dac/amp combo for phone (for example the cayin N6 which were made specifically for the iPhone, there are some more but only the cayin one came to my mind right now)


----------



## gearofwar

Hi, what would you guys think about X5+E12A vs NW-ZX1?


----------



## Dobrescu George

bzippy said:


> it seems to be almost a consensus in this thread that a higher powered amp will sound better driving cans like Senns & Beyers than a lowered powered one (eg. E12 vs E12A), even when the volumes are matched and nowhere near either amp's max output. i don't understand this, so i started a thread in Sound Science asking what's behind it (here it is). two responses so far are saying the opposite: there should be no difference. if some of you want to go over there and make your case, i'd love to read it.


 
 i am getting out of there. so should you... in science forums everyone think that every dac amp, cable and everything sounds the same. 
  
 i kind of do not want to spend my time around there anymore.


----------



## bzippy

dobrescu george said:


> i am getting out of there. so should you... in science forums everyone think that every dac amp, cable and everything sounds the same.
> 
> i kind of do not want to spend my time around there anymore.


 
  
 lol, ok got it. thanks for trying anyway.


----------



## kino lau

> it seems to be almost a consensus in this thread that a higher powered amp will sound better driving cans like Senns & Beyers than a lowered powered one (eg. E12 vs E12A), even when the volumes are matched and nowhere near either amp's max output. i don't understand this, so i started a thread in Sound Science asking what's behind it (here it is). two responses so far are saying the opposite: there should be no difference. if some of you want to go over there and make your case, i'd love to read it.


 
 So after tons of questions about whether or not an IEM designed amp would work with your cans, you bought one...decided you don't like it and will most likely return it...but you're still asking more questions even though you have both an E12 and an E12A in hand to be able to do your own comparisons...which is really what matters most???
  
 I thought I was the only one that would do something like that...lol
  
 "When somebody asks for an opinion, what they really want is to find somebody that agrees with the decision they've already made..."


----------



## hakushondaimao

mcgeggy said:


> So my next question is: If I intend to ALWAYS use a portable amp, such as the E12A, with a dap with a line out, then should I just buy the cheapest line out dap? Since I don't care about the dap's internal amp? Or is a better/pricier dap the better option since I need a quality internal dac also?
> 
> I am also considering for my next iem HiFiMan RE-600, Dunu DN-1000, and Vsonic GR07BE...


 
  
 I've seen a lot of folks compare DAP+E12A to X5 on its own and say the two sound similar. I wonder if that really is the case whether you might not just get the X5. You get a great DAP (and DAC) that way for around the same cost as the X1+E12A combo (maybe a touch higher) and can then get an amp later if you are looking to drive high powered cans.
  
 As for new IEMs, can I suggest you check out the RHA MA750? Have been thoroughly impressed with my set since getting them about a month ago.


----------



## Mcgeggy

hakushondaimao said:


> I've seen a lot of folks compare DAP+E12A to X5 on its own and say the two sound similar. I wonder if that really is the case whether you might not just get the X5. You get a great DAP (and DAC) that way for around the same cost as the X1+E12A combo (maybe a touch higher) and can then get an amp later if you are looking to drive high powered cans.
> 
> As for new IEMs, can I suggest you check out the RHA MA750? Have been thoroughly impressed with my set since getting them about a month ago.




Thanks, that will be something to consider when I outgrow my current dap, the nifty little XDuoo X2.

Yes, the RHA MA 750 had been on my radar for awhile, but so had the GR07BE, and I just bought the latter last night from the classifieds for a decent price. Need to let my wallet catch its breath. Although my wallet may pass out first as I am keenly eying the $99 Donscorpio Dolphin full sized cans too on Penon...


----------



## quimbo

ph0n6 said:


> An amp should be optimally used with a Line Out which can bypass the stock amplifier inside your phone. Unfortunately no phone in this world has a true Line Out, so I suggest spending your money on a better pair of headphones rather than finding an amp. Or buy a portable Dac/amp combo for phone (for example the cayin N6 which were made specifically for the iPhone, there are some more but only the cayin one came to my mind right now)


 
 2 new mobile phone devices
  
 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1698830754/dsp-making-your-headphones-sound-better


----------



## gearofwar

gearofwar said:


> Hi, what would you guys think about X5+E12A vs NW-ZX1?


 

 I was wondering why my question didn't get any answers. Is it because nobody here own NW-ZX1?


----------



## ph0n6

gearofwar said:


> I was wondering why my question didn't get any answers. Is it because nobody here own NW-ZX1?


 
 Well I found the ZX1 way overpriced (500$) for it's sound after auditioning. Then again it is better than other DAP in functionality (running Android I mean).


----------



## gearofwar

ph0n6 said:


> Well I found the ZX1 way overpriced (500$) for it's sound after auditioning. Then again it is better than other DAP in functionality (running Android I mean).


 

 I would be more interested in how X5 + E12A SQ vs such higher daps since i want to know how much E12A actually improves on X5 (for driving IEM)


----------



## ph0n6

gearofwar said:


> I would be more interested in how X5 + E12A SQ vs such higher daps since i want to know how much E12A actually improves on X5 (for driving IEM)


 
 Personally I find the X5 alone sound better than the ZX1 already. Then again I have never tried both with DSD.


----------



## 40lb

gearofwar said:


> I was wondering why my question didn't get any answers. Is it because nobody here own NW-ZX1?


 
   Be a little patient it can take time for the right person to read your post; some people got work and posts can get lost in the flow.  Now to answer your question. I find the sound of the ZX1 to be pretty amazing when using IEMs but even some can be poorly driving by the ZX1.  My UE900s have the volumes at about 75%-85% while other can be more easily driven.  The X5+ E12A drives all my IEMs super nicely and some of my low impedance over-ears too (the ZX1 has problems there).  I tend to use the X5+ E12A more then my ZX1 because I got to be picky with what IEMs I use so I mostly use it only when I work out.
   As for improvements for the X5 stock amp vs the E12A, I have a love/hate relationship with the stock amp some days I just don't like it and other times its just OK.  The E12A is more neutral and detailed and the bass boost is very pleasant.


----------



## gearofwar

40lb said:


> Be a little patient it can take time for the right person to read your post; some people got work and posts can get lost in the flow.  Now to answer your question. I find the sound of the ZX1 to be pretty amazing when using IEMs but even some can be poorly driving by the ZX1.  My UE900s have the volumes at about 75%-85% while other can be more easily driven.  The X5+ E12A drives all my IEMs super nicely and some of my low impedance over-ears too (the ZX1 has problems there).  I tend to use the X5+ E12A more then my ZX1 because I got to be picky with what IEMs I use so I mostly use it only when I work out.
> As for improvements for the X5 stock amp vs the E12A, I have a love/hate relationship with the stock amp some days I just don't like it and other times its just OK.  The E12A is more neutral and detailed and the bass boost is very pleasant.


 

 Do you find X5 + E12A SQ better than ZX1 overall for IEM ?


----------



## 40lb

gearofwar said:


> Do you find X5 + E12A SQ better than ZX1 overall for IEM ?


 
    Overall I personally would pick the ZX1


----------



## Martor

Dear all, 
 I was interested in buying the E12 model to be paired with an iphone 6
 Unfortunately, I've realized that I could experience annoying EMI.
 Is the E12a better from this point of view? And what about E12DIY?
  
 Thanks for your help
 Marco


----------



## OficialWaranty

ph0n6 said:


> An amp should be optimally used with a Line Out which can bypass the stock amplifier inside your phone. Unfortunately no phone in this world has a true Line Out, so I suggest spending your money on a better pair of headphones rather than finding an amp. Or buy a portable Dac/amp combo for phone (for example the cayin N6 which were made specifically for the iPhone, there are some more but only the cayin one came to my mind right now)


 
 A Cayin N6 made specially for iPhone ? If  I'm not mistaken, the Cayin N6 is a Portable DAP music player. 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/735365/cayin-n6-new-audiophile-dap-updated-with-new-pics
http://www.head-fi.org/t/740557/cayin-n6-dap-dual-pcm1792-btl-amplication-circuit-24-192-dsd128-sacd-iso
  
 The E12A is not yet available in my country. Just wanted to know if anyone out there tested it with a Shure SE535.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Opinions and feedback most welcomed


----------



## ph0n6

Oops. I mean the Cayin C6. I wonder who named these thing, damn confusing


----------



## ReizeiMako

martor said:


> Dear all,
> I was interested in buying the E12 model to be paired with an iphone 6
> Unfortunately, I've realized that I could experience annoying EMI.
> Is the E12a better from this point of view? And what about E12DIY?
> ...




Many people including me can comfirm that E12A is dead silent. Lieven from Headfonia test it with many IEM and result is the same.


----------



## Martor

reizeimako said:


> Many people including me can comfirm that E12A is dead silent. Lieven from Headfonia test it with many IEM and result is the same.


Thank you for the reply.
Actually, I saw that review but I can't remember the source, if a phone or not.
Did you try to pair it with a phone? How does it work?
 Thanks again
Marco


----------



## ReizeiMako

I didn't try E12A with phone yet since my player is DX90. Not sure if it has a way to bypass an internal amp from your phone or not. If you connect E12A with a phone by 3.5 mm out it will cause double amp effect and I still doubt about a result.


----------



## hakushondaimao

Do you not bypass the iPhone amp by connecting Lightning --> Camera Connector --> 30-Pin LOD --> Amp? I know it's not the most elegant solution, but...


----------



## Martor

reizeimako said:


> I didn't try E12A with phone yet since my player is DX90. Not sure if it has a way to bypass an internal amp from your phone or not. If you connect E12A with a phone by 3.5 mm out it will cause double amp effect and I still doubt about a result.


 
 I should be able to use a lod (with a lightening to 30pin adapter).
 My concern is on EMI, though, and it doesn't strictly depends of connection (in an E12 review they say the amp was also affected by 2.4GHz cordless phone, for istance)
  
 Marco


----------



## bzippy

kino lau said:


> So after tons of questions about whether or not an IEM designed amp would work with your cans, you bought one...decided you don't like it and will most likely return it...but you're still asking more questions even though you have both an E12 and an E12A in hand to be able to do your own comparisons...which is really what matters most???
> 
> I thought I was the only one that would do something like that...lol
> 
> "When somebody asks for an opinion, what they really want is to find somebody that agrees with the decision they've already made..."


 

 yes, guilty of all charges. the issue is, and i've experienced it in many other areas (my guitar equipment, my home stereo, my TV), i have upgraded to a level quality that i am now in the seriously hair-splitting realm. the differences are so small that i have no trouble believing that placebo effect is indeed in play.
  
 the fact that everyone raves about the E12A in its technical superiority over the E12 gives me pause and makes we want to be really sure of my impressions before i return it. plus, i really like the E12A's bass boost and ease of the volume knob & gain switch. bottom line: i really want to like the sound of the E12A as much as the E12 and i'm bummed that i don't.


----------



## Dobrescu George

bzippy said:


> yes, guilty of all charges. the issue is, and i've experienced it in many other areas (my guitar equipment, my home stereo, my TV), i have upgraded to a level quality that i am now in the seriously hair-splitting realm. the differences are so small that i have no trouble believing that placebo effect is indeed in play.
> 
> the fact that everyone raves about the E12A in its technical superiority over the E12 gives me pause and makes we want to be really sure of my impressions before i return it. plus, i really like the E12A's bass boost and ease of the volume knob & gain switch. bottom line: i really want to like the sound of the E12A as much as the E12 and i'm bummed that i don't.


 
 do you have any iem at hand?
  
 you will surely like e12a much more if you will plug a iem in it.


----------



## OficialWaranty

ph0n6 said:


> Oops. I mean the Cayin C6. I wonder who named these thing, damn confusing


 
 No problem Mate, Thanks for the recommendation. Probably will try to audition the C6 at my local store and compare it with the E12A later when it arrives.


----------



## bzippy

dobrescu george said:


> do you have any iem at hand?
> 
> you will surely like e12a much more if you will plug a iem in it.


 

 hey, that's a good idea. i dislike in ear's so much that i didn't even think of that. my wife has a set of RE-400's that i haven't listened to since i got them for her. so it should be a good demo of what the E12A can do. thanks!


----------



## Dobrescu George

bzippy said:


> hey, that's a good idea. i dislike in ear's so much that i didn't even think of that. my wife has a set of RE-400's that i haven't listened to since i got them for her. so it should be a good demo of what the E12A can do. thanks!


 
 try to test them with e12a and without, to understand how much it does with iems.


----------



## bzippy

dobrescu george said:


> try to test them with e12a and without, to understand how much it does with iems.


 
  
 hm, i'm not really sure how to do that because i typically use the LO of my X3 as the source. i guess i could use the HO, which i would normally never do. but comparing the E12 and E12A from the LO with the RE-400's  -- i am definitely going to do that.


----------



## kino lau

bzippy said:


> yes, guilty of all charges. the issue is, and i've experienced it in many other areas (my guitar equipment, my home stereo, my TV), i have upgraded to a level quality that i am now in the seriously hair-splitting realm. the differences are so small that i have no trouble believing that placebo effect is indeed in play.
> 
> the fact that everyone raves about the E12A in its technical superiority over the E12 gives me pause and makes we want to be really sure of my impressions before i return it. plus, i really like the E12A's bass boost and ease of the volume knob & gain switch. bottom line: i really want to like the sound of the E12A as much as the E12 and i'm bummed that i don't.


 
  
 Look at it all from the bright side. You could be upgrading headphones instead, which would be a heck of a lot more expensive...lol


----------



## ClieOS

martor said:


> I should be able to use a lod (with a lightening to 30pin adapter).
> My concern is on EMI, though, and it doesn't strictly depends of connection (in an E12 review they say the amp was also affected by 2.4GHz cordless phone, for istance)
> 
> Marco


 
  
 That's E12, not E12A... and if you are referring to the review I wrote, it is not even the E12 on the market right now, but an early batch E12 v1 which uses a different opamp that is more susceptible to EMI. Later version has fixed that by using a different opamp. As far as I can tell, E12A is pretty much immune to EMI.


----------



## Martor

clieos said:


> That's E12, not E12A... and if you are referring to the review I wrote, it is not even the E12 on the market right now, but an early batch E12 v1 which uses a different opamp that is more susceptible to EMI. Later version has fixed that by using a different opamp. As far as I can tell, E12A is pretty much immune to EMI.


 
 Great!
 thank you very much for your feed
 Unfortunately, in the meanwhile, I've realised that the 30pin adapter I would need acts as a DAC (and I guess it has worse performance than the in-built one) so...I'd better wait for the Oppo HA-2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Marco


----------



## hakushondaimao

martor said:


> Great!
> thank you very much for your feed
> Unfortunately, in the meanwhile, I've realised that the 30pin adapter I would need acts as a DAC (and I guess it has worse performance than the in-built one) so...I'd better wait for the Oppo HA-2
> 
> ...


 

 If I'm not mistaken, the 30-pin adaptor bypasses the in-built amp, but not the in-built DAC. So you'd be relying on the phone for DA conversion, with the output the equivalent of an analog LO.


----------



## ClieOS

hakushondaimao said:


> If I'm not mistaken, the 30-pin adaptor bypasses the in-built amp, but not the in-built DAC. So you'd be relying on the phone for DA conversion, with the output the equivalent of an analog LO.


 
  
 @Martor is referring the the Lightning-to-30-pins adapter, which has its own little DAC inside. This is because Lightning port is fully digital and Apple want it to be compatible to older accessories that uses the line-out from 30 pins connector, so they need to incorporate an DAC circuit into the adapter in order to have Lightning equipped iDevices with line-out capability. I have measured the Lightning-to-30-pins adapter's line-out quality and it is not bad, but it is not better than double amping the headphone-out either. So at the end, it will be just easier to double amp.


----------



## hakushondaimao

clieos said:


> @Martor is referring the the Lightning-to-30-pins adapter, which has its own little DAC inside. This is because Lightning port is fully digital and Apple want it to be compatible to older accessories that uses the line-out from 30 pins connector, so they need to incorporate an DAC circuit into the adapter in order to have Lightning equipped iDevices with line-out capability. I have measured the Lightning-to-30-pins adapter's line-out quality and it is not bad, but it is not better than double amping the headphone-out either. So at the end, it will be just easier to double amp.


 

 Gotcha. Was not aware of that. Thanks for the heads up. Was considering going the camera connect route, but will probably look at other options now (like the Cayin C6 or TEAC HA-P50) for amping my iPhone or other Lightning device.


----------



## nmatheis

clieos said:


> @Martor is referring the the Lightning-to-30-pins adapter, which has its own little DAC inside. This is because Lightning port is fully digital and Apple want it to be compatible to older accessories that uses the line-out from 30 pins connector, so they need to incorporate an DAC circuit into the adapter in order to have Lightning equipped iDevices with line-out capability. I have measured the Lightning-to-30-pins adapter's line-out quality and it is not bad, but it is not better than double amping the headphone-out either. So at the end, it will be just easier to double amp.




That last part about not being better than double amping is great to know!


----------



## riodgarp

my current setup (itouch 4th via LOD to ibasso d-zero) made my cans feel dry and cold, I wonder if e12a would be more warm or not dry anymore (especially on mid range) ?


----------



## Dobrescu George

riodgarp said:


> my current setup (itouch 4th via LOD to ibasso d-zero) made my cans feel dry and cold, I wonder if e12a would be more warm or not dry anymore (especially on mid range) ?


 
 depends what cans. the ones in your profile can be helped by e12a as they do not need so much power.


----------



## riodgarp

dobrescu george said:


> depends what cans. the ones in your profile can be helped by e12a as they do not need so much power.




which one? I think those two superlux headphone need an amplifier ( 662b & 681 evo)


----------



## Dobrescu George

they both are rated 32 ohm and first is 200 mw and second 300 mw. e12a can output 400mw at 16ohm. this means that around 32 ohm it should output a little more than 200mw, which should be enough for both ^_^
  
 of course, in reality, i might be wrond, as e12a is stated for iems only.
  
 why do you not get e12?


----------



## riodgarp

already hard to find new stock for e12 in indonesia right now,


----------



## Dobrescu George

riodgarp said:


> already hard to find new stock for e12 in indonesia right now,


 
 oh. in romania, e12 is easier to fiind than e12a.
  
 considering the headphones you have, with the price of a e12a you should buy new headphones instead of new amp or source.
  
 teoretically e12a should help, but fiio stated that it should be used with iems. i had not tried it with headphones.
  
 i should advice you to wait until you can fiind e12, instead of buying e12a, and it not helping you with your headphones. even though it should help. also considering the price, you can get new headphones, and usually this is the first thing one should think about.


----------



## hakushondaimao

dobrescu george said:


> teoretically e12a should help, but fiio stated that it should be used with iems. i had not tried it with headphones.


 
  
 I use the E12A with over-ear headphones and it's fine. Yes, the amp is "designed" for low-impedance IEMs, but that doesn't mean it can't be used with lower impedance cans (the amp is recommended for up to 300 ohms). I'd focus on the "low impedance" rather than "IEM" part of the marketing materials.
  
 From my sig you'll see I have mostly IEMs (which I use on low gain), but the 12A drives my HD 598s fantastically well on high gain. Have also used it with a friends m50x, and SQ and volume were superb. The E12A is thus much better as an all-purpose amp than the E12 if you're someone who mixes up IEMs and easy-driving cans like myself.


----------



## Dobrescu George

hakushondaimao said:


> I use the E12A with over-ear headphones and it's fine. Yes, the amp is "designed" for low-impedance IEMs, but that doesn't mean it can't be used with lower impedance cans (the amp is recommended for up to 300 ohms). I'd focus on the "low impedance" rather than "IEM" part of the marketing materials.
> 
> From my sig you'll see I have mostly IEMs (which I use on low gain), but the 12A drives my HD 598s fantastically well on high gain. Have also used it with a friends m50x, and SQ and volume were superb. The E12A is thus much better as an all-purpose amp than the E12 if you're someone who mixes up IEMs and easy-driving cans like myself.


 
 very good info to know!
  
 i had not tried it this way, but i am sure to try it soon with lower impedance headphones!


----------



## bzippy

hakushondaimao said:


> I use the E12A with over-ear headphones and it's fine. Yes, the amp is "designed" for low-impedance IEMs, but that doesn't mean it can't be used with lower impedance cans (the amp is recommended for up to 300 ohms). I'd focus on the "low impedance" rather than "IEM" part of the marketing materials.
> 
> From my sig you'll see I have mostly IEMs (which I use on low gain), but the 12A drives my HD 598s fantastically well on high gain. Have also used it with a friends m50x, and SQ and volume were superb. The E12A is thus much better as an all-purpose amp than the E12 if you're someone who mixes up IEMs and easy-driving cans like myself.


 

 i think they only recommend up to 150 ohm for the E12A, no?


----------



## hakushondaimao

bzippy said:


> i think they only recommend up to 150 ohm for the E12A, no?


 

 I thought so, too, but checked the product description on the Fiio website (just to be sure) where it recommends 16-300 ohms. I'm guessing up to 150 ohm is more optimal though...


----------



## WitzyZed

hakushondaimao said:


> I thought so, too, but checked the product description on the Fiio website (just to be sure) where it recommends 16-300 ohms. I'm guessing up to 150 ohm is more optimal though...


 
  
 Calling it now, "Ohm-Gate"


----------



## Tuneslover

dobrescu george said:


> do you have any iem at hand?
> 
> you will surely like e12a much more if you will plug a iem in it.


 
 I'm kinda thinking along those lines as well.  I have a cheap pair of Nuforce NE700's that I use for the gym but decided to try it with the E12a and thought hmmm...not bad but a better pair might be worth considering.  My guy at the Headfone Shop in Toronto has a pair of used Westone UMPro30's for me to audition.  Curious to hear them on my E12a.


----------



## Tuneslover

hakushondaimao said:


> I use the E12A with over-ear headphones and it's fine. Yes, the amp is "designed" for low-impedance IEMs, but that doesn't mean it can't be used with lower impedance cans (the amp is recommended for up to 300 ohms). I'd focus on the "low impedance" rather than "IEM" part of the marketing materials.
> 
> From my sig you'll see I have mostly IEMs (which I use on low gain), but the 12A drives my HD 598s fantastically well on high gain. Have also used it with a friends m50x, and SQ and volume were superb. The E12A is thus much better as an all-purpose amp than the E12 if you're someone who mixes up IEMs and easy-driving cans like myself.


 
 I agree that the E12a works very nicely with headphones, in my case the Beyerdynamic DT1350 (80 ohms) but I am planning on trying some IEM's to see how the E12a really shines.


----------



## riodgarp

I though fiio was write it 16 - 150 ohm only ? but is too maximum if used for 150 ohm cans I quest . . .


----------



## ClieOS

riodgarp said:


> I though fiio was write it 16 - 150 ohm only ? but is too maximum if used for 150 ohm cans I quest . . .


 
  
 That's is just a suggestion, not something carved in the stone.


----------



## ph0n6

Tested with most low impendence can, works fine for me (around 11 o'clock is loud enough for me, specifically AKG Y50, Y40, AKG K420, HD681B, M50x). Though I didn't test them without the amp so can't say much for SQ changes.


----------



## razorpakk

It's fine also with Fidelio X2, MDR-1A and even Shure 1540.


----------



## Tuneslover

tuneslover said:


> I'm kinda thinking along those lines as well.  I have a cheap pair of Nuforce NE700's that I use for the gym but decided to try it with the E12a and thought hmmm...not bad but a better pair might be worth considering.  My guy at the Headfone Shop in Toronto has a pair of used Westone UMPro30's for me to audition.  Curious to hear them on my E12a.




Bought the Westone UMPro30's this morning. Really really nice withe the E12a.


----------



## palermo

love the sound in Hi-gain mode, more transparent, tighter bass.


----------



## Jupiterknight

palermo said:


> love the sound in Hi-gain mode, more transparent, tighter bass.


 
  
 Have you volume matched Hi-gain vs. low gain, down to exact same DB levels? Louder always/often sounds better. I assume you aren't talking about some very hard to drive headphones?


----------



## hakushondaimao

palermo said:


> love the sound in Hi-gain mode, more transparent, tighter bass.


 

 High gain through my HD598s is definitely preferable to low. With IEMs, I'd only be able to go to about 9 o'clock on the volume pot before my ears started bleeding, so would have very little in the way of fine volume control. Low gain wins with IEMs.


----------



## palermo

jupiterknight said:


> Have you volume matched Hi-gain vs. low gain, down to exact same DB levels? Louder always/often sounds better. I assume you aren't talking about some very hard to drive headphones?


 
  


hakushondaimao said:


> High gain through my HD598s is definitely preferable to low. With IEMs, I'd only be able to go to about 9 o'clock on the volume pot before my ears started bleeding, so would have very little in the way of fine volume control. Low gain wins with IEMs.


 
  
 I don't need this kind of metode, just myself preferable on hi-gain, even with sensitive IEM like F111. Oh yes, definitely I couldn't to crank volume up exceed 9 o'clock. Without music playing, I notice hiss in 11 o'clock.


----------



## ReizeiMako

With 150 ohm PK1 earbuds I prefer high gain or else the vocal is too thin.


----------



## NineToTheSky

I apologise for my ignorance, but are the E12a and the E18 the same thing apart from the latter being a DAC - which I understand to mean that it can work with devices (like laptops) with a USB port?


----------



## KLJTech

The E18 is a DAC and Amp built into the same device, but its amp section is different/doesn't use the same components as the E12A. _That doesn't mean that it isn't very good_, simply that its amp portion is different from the E12A. The DAC that's built into the E18 can be connected to your PC or laptop and it supports audio up to 24/96. I hope that helps.


----------



## NineToTheSky

Thank you. I want to pair it with my Samsung Galaxy Note Edge and my Westone W40. Which do you think would be better for that?


----------



## Fadem

ninetothesky said:


> Thank you. I want to pair it with my Samsung Galaxy Note Edge and my Westone W40. Which do you think would be better for that?


 

 The general consensus is that amplifying a processed and amplified signal (e.g. a headphone out) introduces additional noise to the signal path (which may or may not be audible). Therefore, the 'best' solution would be to use an external (USB) DAC to bypass the phone's internal DAC+amplifier combination. And since you want to control the volume level (from the DAC line out) an external amplifier is likely required as well. I would really not use the E12a alone with the Galaxy Note Edge, but pair it with a stand-alone USB DAC. The alternative is to use the E18, though I am not sure on its performance level with IEMs.


----------



## shacky

Just got my E12A!  Only other amp I've had is C&C Box+ which I thought was great.
  
 Listening to some of my favorite - Pat Metheny Group - through UE 900S.  With my C&C I had to use EQ to get adequate bass out of PMG.  With the E12A I am head over heels using flat EQ with bass on and low gain.
  
 Lots of listening to do....


----------



## shacky

Wow just switched to my Shure E5's which I prefer over the UE's.  Great sound!  I thought I might miss the crossfeed from C&C but not the case.  Lush is how I would describe the Fiio.


----------



## Paulus XII

Got The FiiO E12A Mont Blanc today from my good friends at Zococity in Spain. What a difference!! Fiio X3 amplification section is nowhere near as good as X5 so a better amp is really needed. But the thing is that my Westone W40's also scale very well with a good amp. The E12A is a very detailed and neutral amp competing with much more expensive amps, no doubt. I had the JDSLabs C5 in the past and don't even come close in resolution, treble definition and sparkle. The result is a much more authoritative, full-bodied and detailed IEM that can reach probably its full potential. Micro-detail is superb, layering was much improved, I can distinguish sounds that were almost imperceptible unamped. All in all a very recommended buy if you have a X3 or inferior DAP and the W40's (and for sure many other IEMs). It's a totaly new level of sound. Refined, lush, authoritative and with considerably better dynamic expression. Vocals also improve significantly, even cleaner. No more congestion, no more "dark" sound, a detail monster with serious tight and detailed bass.
  
 If you're a moderate bass-head like me, a IEM like the W40 will more than please you with the E12A as well. The +4db of Bass Boost makes all the difference in sub-bass. These are now a really bass-heavy IEM. With lots of micro-detail. If you have spent 499€ like me in these IEMs you deserve this for the full experience. FiiO E12A delivers. With 20 hours of battery life it can last you a week or more as well with a single charge. The amp is also relatively thin, it won't take up much more space in your pocket. Couldn't be more impressed with the E12A.
  
 If you're a purist, I highly recommend a pure silver interconnect, it improves SQ alot compared to the stock cable. Those small things that can make the difference. You do want to extract all the "juice" from your IEM. In my case W40 is a much more capable IEM than what it seems unamped (even though I loved them unamped). But the difference with the FiiO E12A Mont Blanc + X3 is like night and day. Not just a subtle difference.
  
 Resuming, best bang for buck amp on the market ATM. It was C5 before, now with the evolution and more companies coming in with aggressive prices and a better ratio performance/price, I can't remember anything better or as good as FiiO E12A for 169€.
  
 EDIT: Difference for the T-PEOS H300 is not as dramatic as W40, but still obvious and worthing the E12A for getting the full potential out of the IEM.


----------



## Paulus XII

There's something in the bass that I feel is exceptional. The amp is detailed but smooth, with astonishing bass quality. It's a different experience from other amps I've had, like C&C BH and JDSLabs C5. It's smoother sounding and the bass is fabulous in terms of quality, not quantity.  And it's clean, very clean. The overall experience is very pleasant. It definitely opens a new world for my Westone W40's and I've been rediscovering all my discography for hours and hours with the "new" sound and layering. Exceptional amp for the price in my opinion, no question.
  
 And I don't know if it is my brain adapting or burn-in, but it's sounding better.


----------



## DiscoProJoe

Paired with my V-Moda M-100s, this amp is so amazing that I wrote a whole article about it at *http://hub.me/aji60*
  
 I run it through the analog line-out jack on the top of my iPod Classic with the volume knob on the E12A set to max, along with the gain switch set to "high," and control the volume completely from the iPod. If the music on the iPod is all the way down and paused, I can't hear hardly _*any*_ noise or hiss coming from the amp. This is awesome, because I want to control everything from the iPod (with a set volume limit on the iPod to prevent any accidental ear-blowouts if my finger slips). I also don't need to mess with any knobs on the amp while walking and listening, and can keep one hand free. And if I accidentally bump the knob, it won't blow out my ears and ruin my good headphones.
  
 The extra bass boost switch on the side is _absolutely essential_ and really whoops some major ass. I almost always use it with my M-100s. It sounds super solid and clean without boosting the upper midbass nor lower midrange very much, and I can combine it with the bass boosts on my iPod to _really_ boost the low end -- especially on a lot of  '80s music where a _huge_ sub-bass boost is usually needed to make it hit. You can see a graph of the E12A bass boost curve by clicking *here* . It boosts it by 6 dB, centered around 20 Hz, and this 6 dB boost is spread throughout the 10Hz-40Hz range, which totally shines through on the M-100s. Only a 2 dB boost remains at 200 Hz, and only 1 dB at 300 Hz, so it pretty-much leaves the mids alone.
  
 It also works great if I plug it into the auxiliary input on my small 2.1-channel desktop stereo. In this setup, the volume on the E12A is still set to max, but with the bass boost switch turned off. I also need to turn down the volume on the iPod somewhat so the signal doesn't overpower the input on the stereo and get distorted. (Without the E12A, I would set the iPod volume at max while running it through a receiver.)
  
 Well, to contrast the E12A with a different amp, I sampled a Cayin C5 at a local Hi-Fi shop, which was sitting next to the E12A on their display table (just prior to purchasing the E12A a couple weeks ago). I was using my M-100s while listening, and the C5 sounded _awful_ in comparison. The C5 had _way too much noise_ with its volume turned way up, and with the music on my iPod paused or turned down. It also didn't sound as clean, and with my M-100s, the C5 had too much coloration in the upper midbass and lower midrange -- _especially_ with its bass boost, which made it sound even-worse.
  
 Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Happy amping!


----------



## Paulus XII

I think the sound of it is so unique, like "FiiO house sound" as we say for Westone. Something like that. I'm in love by the sound of this amp. And the sinergy with the Westone W40 is terrific. Never felt anything like this with the JDSLabs C5.


----------



## SashimiWu

paulus xii said:


> I think the sound of it is so unique, like "FiiO house sound" as we say for Westone. Something like that. I'm in love by the sound of this amp. And the sinergy with the Westone W40 is terrific. Never felt anything like this with the JDSLabs C5.


 
  
 If you don't mind what would you say sounds different about this amp from the JDS Labs C5?
  
 I really enjoy the clean and detailed sound of the C5 along with the multiple steps of bass boost but the E12A seems to be a nice option for perhaps a slightly warmer sound.


----------



## shacky

discoprojoe said:


> Paired with my V-Moda M-100s, this amp is so amazing that I wrote a whole article about it at *http://hub.me/aji60*
> 
> I run it through the analog line-out jack on the top of my iPod Classic with the volume knob on the E12A set to max, along with the gain switch set to "high," and control the volume completely from the iPod.


 
  
 Do yourself a favor and get a true line out bypassing iPod amp section - connects to 30 pin side.  You will be thankful you did


----------



## DiscoProJoe

shacky said:


> Do yourself a favor and get a true line out bypassing iPod amp section - connects to 30 pin side.  You will be thankful you did


 
  
 They let me try it both ways at the Hi-Fi shop (first with a 30-pin connector, and next with with a standard line-out plug). I totally preferred the second method.  I could still control the volume from the iPod (which I couldn't when using the 30-pin).  I also could point the amp in the direction I prefer -- with the wires and volume knob facing upward and away from me, instead of downward or toward me and getting in the way. And oh yeah,...I couldn't notice any difference in sound quality either way, especially since the amp puts out almost no noise whatsoever with ultra-low distortion, and Apple products such as iPods have very little distortion as well.


----------



## Dobrescu George

discoprojoe said:


> They let me try it both ways at the Hi-Fi shop (first with a 30-pin connector, and next with with a standard line-out plug). I totally preferred the second method.  I could still control the volume from the iPod (which I couldn't when using the 30-pin).  I also could point the amp in the direction I prefer -- with the wires and volume knob facing upward and away from me, instead of downward or toward me and getting in the way. And oh yeah,...I couldn't notice any difference in sound quality either way, especially since the amp puts out almost no noise whatsoever with ultra-low distortion, and Apple products such as iPods have very little distortion as well.


 
 yes, but you are still double amping, which degrades the original signal. But haing a input resistance of a order of KOHM means that most of that is filtered anyways. 
  
 What could use improovement, is the fact that ipod amp is not totally colorless, but it is close, so it is up to if you hear or care about the difference, which should be small.


----------



## vman

Can you guys suggest a DAC that pairs well with the E12A?
  
 Budget is <$70. I have an android phone (Sony Z3 compact).
  
 Thanks.


----------



## snellemin

I've been enjoying my E12A for a while now.  I use it with my old iphone 3gs, minidisc players and hooked up to my Ibasso D7 when my kids want listen along with their headphones.  My head gear is not as fancy, but it's just consist the Sony MDR-V6, Monster Turbines and Lil Jamz.  The E12A does well with the Sony and I can listen for hours on end with the amp attached.  I'm using the Denon app on the Iphone.  I was happy running my portable rigs without an amp ever since I was kid.  But in the pass two years, my hearing is not as good anymore.  So I spend that time reading this forum and see what would fit my needs.  After lurking for ages, I finally decide the join and say thanks.  
  
 I grew up with loud music, learned how to recone speakers, rewound voice coils in woofers  and build big speaker boxes at the age of 14.  Messed around with car audio for a long time.  My home audio also went crazy as I got older.  So as my hearing is letting go, I decided I needed an amp for my portable players.  The FIIO E12A seemed to be what I needed.  My friend told me about his Fiio E12 DIY and how he loved it.  I almost bought one, but the E12A came out and was meant for the IEM.  I figured it would be the perfect match for my beloved Turbines, and it is.  It sounds so good. Everything sounds so clear.  A lot more bass and it's clean undistorted bass. My minidisc players are in use again and so so are my old phones that had been laying around.  The bass is so clean and I don't really need to use the bass boost with the Turbines.  The EQ and limiter in the Denon app make my earphones and headphone come alive with the E12A.  I really don't mind lugging around this amp.  I mean I am one of those that still rock out on my early 80's Sony cassette Walkman at the gym.  
  
 I was surprised how well the E12A handled my Sony V6 headphones.  I thought I would need the E12 for the higher bass boost and power.  But no need for me.  All I have to do is use the high gain, enable the Bass and tweak the bass level in the Denon app.  Headphones have more than enough power for my ears. The bass is enough for all my EDM, Drum&Bass, Miami Bass, and Reggea music.  This little portable amp is great.  
  
 To my ears the FIIO E12A bass sounds nearly as nice as my IBasso D7 when using my Sony headphones.  But that could be because the D7 is hooked up to my PC and I'm using the VLC player EQ with it.  The FIIO really shines with the Turbines and makes a nice addition to my music setup at home.  Sometimes I can't blare out my home audio setup, nor my PC setup.  So me and my kids can just plug in our headphones and enjoy music without disturbing anybody else.


----------



## DiscoProJoe

dobrescu george said:


> yes, but you are still double amping, which degrades the original signal. But haing a input resistance of a order of KOHM means that most of that is filtered anyways.
> 
> What could use improovement, is the fact that ipod amp is not totally colorless, but it is close, so it is up to if you hear or care about the difference, which should be small.


 

 The E12A isn't a DAC/amp, and is all-analog, so anyone using the E12A will be double-amping, regardless. The 30-pin connector I tried at the shop was a simple adaptor plug with a 3.5mm analog audio line plug on the other end of it; it _wasn't_ a 30-pin-to-USB line as a DAC/amp would use.
  
 Apparently, all that 30-pin-to-3.5mm line adaptor did was send an analog signal to the E12A as if the iPod were at _maximum volume_.
  
 Anyway, I couldn't find any highly-technical audio specs for the iPod Classic, but I did find one for an older iPod Touch at http://kenrockwell.com/apple/ipod-touch-4g.htm#perf .  The results for an 80GB iPod Classic (6th Generation) are probably quite similar. For the older iPod Touch, it's 10Hz to 22kHz, +/- 0.02dB with 0.00025% distortion. Most humans usually can't notice distortion of less than 3%.


----------



## Dobrescu George

of course. if it does not bypass the amp in the ipod, then there is no reason for you to use it.
  
 for example, the line out of fiio x5 bypasses the amp, and sends a full blown un-amped signal into e12a. it does not do double amp, the amp section is turned off. i thought that the adaptor for ipod could do the same thing.


----------



## Paulus XII

sashimiwu said:


> If you don't mind what would you say sounds different about this amp from the JDS Labs C5?
> 
> I really enjoy the clean and detailed sound of the C5 along with the multiple steps of bass boost but the E12A seems to be a nice option for perhaps a slightly warmer sound.


 
  
 I don't know, there's that sweetness in the mids, so mellow, almost "liquid", that I didn't find in the C5 and most importantly the treble. JDS C5's treble was too dry and lifeless to me. Really bad, the worst part of that amp. Bass was excelent though. But the E12A sounds better to me in general. Concerning layering they're equivalent. Another thing that I think is excelent in the E12A is tonality and timbre, but of course, this can be the Westone W40, the E12A just amplifying the sound and giving a better perception of that. The amp is neutral but there's maybe just some very slight sweet coloration in the mids, not quite sure, again the sweet/"liquid" mids can be already coming from the Westone W40, just amplified. I think that the E12 takes everything that is good in the W40's and makes it sound even better. Fuller, sweeter, lush, refined. All in all the best match I've found for W40 so far.


----------



## DiscoProJoe

dobrescu george said:


> for example, the line out of fiio x5 bypasses the amp, and sends a full blown un-amped signal into e12a. it does not do double amp, the amp section is turned off. i thought that the adaptor for ipod could do the same thing.


 
  
 My bad; I think the iPod is the same way. The 30-pin-to-3.5mm "L-shaped adaptor" works like an analog line-out plug for the iPod, whereas a 3.5mm-to-3.5mm line works like an analog headphone-out (with the iPod). The iPod doesn't have a separate 3.5mm line-out port, so if you're using a 3.5mm-to-3.5mm line that's connected to an external auxiliary input, you'll just have to use the iPod's headphone output.
  
  


> of course. if it does not bypass the amp in the ipod, then there is no reason for you to use it.


 
  
*Audiophiles* would have no reason to use it, that is, but _non-audiophiles like me_ have all the reasons in the world to do so! Since I personally couldn't notice any difference in sound quality between using an L-shaped adaptor versus a 3.5mm-to-3.5mm line, I chose the latter. Why? Because it's a lot more ergonomical and gives me more control options. When using an L-shaped adaptor, it doesn't allow me to adjust the volume from the iPod, but with a 3.5mm-to-3.5mm line, I still can.
  
 One of the reasons I love the E12A so much is because it is a _*non-audiophile's dream!*_  As I said earlier, you can set the amp gain at max and control the volume from your music player while using a standard 3.5mm-to-3.5mm line, and you won't get hardly any extra audible noise. As a non-audiophile, if I personally can't notice any sound quality difference, then I choose whichever options are easier, cheaper, smaller, safer, more flexible, more ergonomical, and have more longevity.
  
 For example, if I could select between a device with a 120dB dynamic range and 0.00000001% distortion, versus one with a 70dB dynamic range and 1% distortion with all the other audio specs identical to the first device, and if the latter device was somewhat cheaper and easier to use, then I'd pick the latter one in a heartbeat, as long as I'm not using it in a recording studio.
  
 Anyway, most audiophiles probably would prefer DAC/amps over the E12A, such as V-Moda's Vamp Verza, which is $600. (The E12A is $150, by comparison.)
  
 Finally, I found another discussion about this line-out vs. headphone-out topic here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/615499/line-out-dock-vs-headphone-out
  
 There's also a spec page I found (possibly from 2003) for much older iPods at http://www.stereophile.com/content/apple-ipod-portable-music-player-measurements
  
 Happy amping,...whichever floats your boat!


----------



## Dobrescu George

discoprojoe said:


> My bad; I think the iPod is the same way. The 30-pin-to-3.5mm "L-shaped adaptor" works like an analog line-out plug for the iPod, whereas a 3.5mm-to-3.5mm line works like an analog headphone-out (with the iPod). The iPod doesn't have a separate 3.5mm line-out port, so if you're using a 3.5mm-to-3.5mm line that's connected to an external auxiliary input, you'll just have to use the iPod's headphone output.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 just a little note, just for using IEMs the amp in e12a is  one of the best alavaible on the market. Fiio are very kind people to have it at such a low price, because, that amp, is practically amazing.
  
 i would still choose e12a over vamp verza. in fact, for using iems, such as ie8 and ie800, it is one of the best amps possible at any price, it does have plenty of power for iems, and sounds good too!


----------



## ph0n6

Actually the ipod classic require a mod to achieve true LO, unlike most DAP we have on the market now. Yes the Double Amping can distort the sound so really I can't recommend them.


----------



## DiscoProJoe

ph0n6 said:


> Actually the ipod classic require a mod to achieve true LO, unlike most DAP we have on the market now.


 
  
 You mean to say that the 30-pin-to-3.5mm "L-shaped adaptor" also uses the iPod Classic's internal amp? This makes sense, because when I tried listening to it that way, it sounded the same as using the headphone output at maximum volume.
  


> distort the sound


 
  
 Personally, my only complaint about the iPod Classic is that its digital EQ (if used) will often _audibly distort the sound _on a lot of newer music, prompting me to settle for a different EQ setting that doesn't distort it, or to settle for it at "flat" or "off." On most '80s music, the EQ doesn't distort the sound at all, but it does on a lot of newer music.
  
 A couple months ago I had the battery replaced in the iPod, and had the circuit boards thoroughly cleaned, and it runs like a champ. (It's more than 6 1/2 years old.) If and when it eventually goes out on me in the future, I'll probably get the latest FiiO player or something.


----------



## shacky

Wow I did not know that iPod Classic did not provide true LO through 30 pin adapter.  I had gone back and forth with my C&C Box+ and could have sworn the "LO" sounded better.  Could be difference in quality of interconnect and or I had iPod volume less than max for comparison.
  
 So what mod is needed to get true line out if is at al possible?  I have latest addition 160 GB Classic.


----------



## ph0n6

http://redwineaudio.com/mods/imod
 An example of a modded iPod for true LO. Bassically it bypass the preamp of the iPod, maybe someone know more details on what they did exactly.
 On the case of double amping, I tried to double amp 2 good one myself (the E12A and the Heir Rendition 1), the sound is muffled, details are lost compare to just using 1 amp. Also interestingly the overall sound is more affected by which amp I plug my headphones to, which could explain the better SQ when I double amping with my phone via the 3.5 jack


----------



## ClieOS

ph0n6 said:


> http://redwineaudio.com/mods/imod
> An example of a modded iPod for true LO. Bassically it bypass the preamp of the iPod, maybe someone know more details on what they did exactly.
> On the case of double amping, I tried to double amp 2 good one myself (the E12A and the Heir Rendition 1), the sound is muffled, details are lost compare to just using 1 amp. Also interestingly the overall sound is more affected by which amp I plug my headphones to, which could explain the better SQ when I double amping with my phone via the 3.5 jack


 
  
 iMod only applies to older generation of iPod (4th~5.5th gen). iPod 6th Gen's original LO is good enough that people don't mod it anymore. Those who are seeking for even better SQ than the line-out typically goes for a portable DAC instead, but those can be pretty expensive.


----------



## DiscoProJoe

clieos said:


> iPod 6th Gen's original LO is good enough that people don't mod it anymore. Those who are seeking for even better SQ than the line-out typically goes for a portable DAC instead, but those can be pretty expensive.


 
  
 Well-said!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 When I saw that $445 modification price-tag total, I thought of the song "Rip Off" by After School!


----------



## shacky

So does the 6G iPod have a true LO?


----------



## shacky

Actually I have a 6G 80 GB and a 7G 160GB.


----------



## White Lotus

shacky said:


> So does the 6G iPod have a true LO?


 
  
 Yes.


----------



## Skullbox

tuneslover said:


> I'm kinda thinking along those lines as well.  I have a cheap pair of Nuforce NE700's that I use for the gym but decided to try it with the E12a and thought hmmm...not bad but a better pair might be worth considering.  My guy at the Headfone Shop in Toronto has a pair of used Westone UMPro30's for me to audition.  Curious to hear them on my E12a.


 Great! Waiting for ur impression on this then! Am W4r user in fact !


----------



## Skullbox

ninetothesky said:


> Thank you. I want to pair it with my Samsung Galaxy Note Edge and my Westone W40. Which do you think would be better for that?




Let see.. go for E18 to fit your Galaxy... and/or E12A for your Westone.


----------



## Tuneslover

skullbox said:


> Great! Waiting for ur impression on this then! Am W4r user in fact !


 
 I have been giving the UMPro30's quite a bit of ear time and it was really tough to get used to the very intimate closed in soundstage of these earphones.  Also I found them to be very dark in nature with subdued high frequencies.  Then a few days ago something very noticeable happened...the sound character changed dramatically for the better DURING a listening session.  I bought them used (they were only 4 months old) and I don't know how many hours the previous owner actually put on them so perhaps they crossed a critical "burn-in" phase.  Maybe it was my E12a, which I bought brand new only 1 week before the Westone's that contributed to the change.  I'm estimating that I've put about 150 hours on the E12a since I got it.
  
 Regardless of whatever "happened" the UMPro30's/E12a combo now sounds so much better.  Overall everything sounds much more balanced, in particular the high frequencies.  Also the bass is less muddy sounding, instead it now is tight, rich and extends deeply (even without the bass boost).  The midrange hasn't changed much but then it already was very good from the start.  Probably the biggest change is the soundstage...it has opened up quite a bit (for an "in-the-head" tuned earphone perspective) and separates the instruments beautifully.
  
 Needless to say I'm very happy that I stuck with the UMPro30's...my Beyerdynamic DT1350's hardly get used now.  Tomorrow I'm heading back to audition a pair of used W30's because originally when I was auditioning the UMPro30's I actually preferred the W series sound but the used UMPro30's were just such a good deal that I thought I would give them a go.  Glad I did.


----------



## Skullbox

tuneslover said:


> I have been giving the UMPro30's quite a bit of ear time and it was really tough to get used to the very intimate closed in soundstage of these earphones.  Also I found them to be very dark in nature with subdued high frequencies.  Then a few days ago something very noticeable happened...the sound character changed dramatically for the better DURING a listening session.  I bought them used (they were only 4 months old) and I don't know how many hours the previous owner actually put on them so perhaps they crossed a critical "burn-in" phase.  Maybe it was my E12a, which I bought brand new only 1 week before the Westone's that contributed to the change.  I'm estimating that I've put about 150 hours on the E12a since I got it.
> 
> Regardless of whatever "happened" the UMPro30's/E12a combo now sounds so much better.  Overall everything sounds much more balanced, in particular the high frequencies.  Also the bass is less muddy sounding, instead it now is tight, rich and extends deeply (even without the bass boost).  The midrange hasn't changed much but then it already was very good from the start.  Probably the biggest change is the soundstage...it has opened up quite a bit (for an "in-the-head" tuned earphone perspective) and separates the instruments beautifully.
> 
> Needless to say I'm very happy that I stuck with the UMPro30's...my Beyerdynamic DT1350's hardly get used now.  Tomorrow I'm heading back to audition a pair of used W30's because originally when I was auditioning the UMPro30's I actually preferred the W series sound but the used UMPro30's were just such a good deal that I thought I would give them a go.  Glad I did.


 Thank for comments! Yup, W series sound more fun, musical to me, same as my W4r ! UM series is more "stage" monitor, it have less LO freq in it. W series is more "Audiophile" genre in mind! 
I still have the UM3x, that have change couple weeks later for the W4r. Never use, yet, my IEM amped! Am an hurry to see all the transformation! ....


----------



## Skullbox

paulus xii said:


> I think the sound of it is so unique, like "FiiO house sound" as we say for Westone. Something like that. I'm in love by the sound of this amp. And the sinergy with the Westone W40 is terrific. Never felt anything like this with the JDSLabs C5.


 +1

Youv read my mind!!


----------



## Skullbox

vman said:


> Can you guys suggest a DAC that pairs well with the E12A?
> 
> Budget is <$70. I have an android phone (Sony Z3 compact).
> 
> Thanks.


 A FiiO E18 will pair well with ur Smartphone! No DAC in the E12A. DAC only can be not cheap! Other option... Zx2 
Keep working!!

Hope this can help!


----------



## Fadem

skullbox said:


> A FiiO E18 will pair well with ur Smartphone! No DAC in the E12A. DAC only can be not cheap! Other option... Zx2
> Keep working!!
> 
> Hope this can help!


 

 I mentioned earlier in this thread that the HiFimediy Android Sabre DAC was quite a good match for the E12a. I still stand by this opinion. The only downside is that it is less portable than a combined DAC/Amp solution. However,  at a ~€30 price point, it stays well within your budget...


----------



## Skullbox

fadem said:


> I mentioned earlier in this thread that the HiFimediy Android Sabre DAC was quite a good match for the E12a. I still stand by this opinion. The only downside is that it is less portable than a combined DAC/Amp solution. However,  at a ~€30 price point, it stays well within your budget...


 Portability is my primary option. HiFimediy Android Sabre DAC are not available in my country! I want stay FiiO. 

E12A amp. will be fine for my rig. (X1 (eventualy X3II) W4r) But, if am looking now for USB/DAC/Amp, what will be the best in this dept. ? Not to big... not to small either!


----------



## Paulus XII

skullbox said:


> +1
> 
> Youv read my mind!!


 
  




  
 Definitely the best amp for IEMs I've tried so far. So neutral and so lush and sweet.


----------



## Kerouac

> Definitely the best amp for IEMs I've tried so far. So neutral and so lush and sweet.


 
 I´m (still) on the fence for one myself. So, just out of curiosity: what amps did you try before E12A?


----------



## Replicant187

my Picollo sounds really nice with IEMs but can't help wonder how E12A sounds like...my wallet!


----------



## dw1narso

paulus xii said:


> Definitely the best amp for IEMs I've tried so far. So neutral and so lush and sweet.


 
 I don't mean to counter you but just want to ask.... Could really it be like that? neutral, lush and sweet at the same time?


----------



## Paulus XII

kerouac said:


> I´m (still) on the fence for one myself. So, just out of curiosity: what amps did you try before E12A?


 
  
 Have tried C&C BH and JDSLabs C5. E12A puts C&C BH to shame in termos of resolution and layering and treble is much better than C5.


----------



## Paulus XII

dw1narso said:


> I don't mean to counter you but just want to ask.... Could really it be like that? neutral, lush and sweet at the same time?


 
  
 I think the lush and sweet sound comes from the Westone W40, just amplified, so you get a better perception of the sweetness. The amp is indeed neutral.


----------



## Kerouac

paulus xii said:


> kerouac said:
> 
> 
> > I´m (still) on the fence for one myself. So, just out of curiosity: what amps did you try before E12A?
> ...


 
 Thanks!
 I've had the C&C BH2 (sold) and now I also have a C5, but that's the (completely different) Cayin one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 From Twister6's reviews on both (E12A & C5) I understood they're both great amps with different soundsignatures, E12A being the more neutral one indeed...they should complement each other pretty well though...


----------



## Paulus XII

Trust my ears. C5's treble is really bad compared to E12A.


----------



## Kerouac

paulus xii said:


> Trust my ears. C5's treble is really bad compared to E12A.


 
 Yes, I trust your ears!
  
 But: you had a *JDSLabs* C5, while I have a *Cayin* C5.
 Those are two completely different amps from different manufacturers


----------



## Dobrescu George

kerouac said:


> Yes, I trust your ears!
> 
> But: you had a *JDSLabs* C5, while I have a *Cayin* C5.
> Those are two completely different amps from different manufacturers


 
 i am between those who would rather have a very neutral amp, to let headphones to colors if needed.


----------



## Paulus XII

JDSLabs is more neutral than Cayin. But E12A has better treble than JDSLabs and it's neutral too. Layering/separation, pretty much the same thing. Excelent.


----------



## Skullbox

paulus xii said:


> Definitely the best amp for IEMs I've tried so far. So neutral and so lush and sweet.


 I was on a hurry to put my hands on E12A, but I hesitate a bit now. Considering... This is the best in FiiO amp, but what will be the best now *USB/DAC/* ? E18 are to large to fit my rigs. X1 (event.X3II) W4r. It will be fine for Smartphone certainly but this is not my cup of tea I think! Again, What will be the winner in FiiO USB/DAC category, after pointing the best, E12a Amp ? 

Are RSA P-51 Mustang, The Predator... are in the same league as FiiO ? Have you heard about these nice colorfull amps ?



Thanks.


----------



## Paulus XII

skullbox said:


> I was on a hurry to put my hands on E12A, but I hesitate a bit now. Considering... This is the best in FiiO amp, but what will be the best now *USB/DAC/* ? E18 are to large to fit my rigs. X1 (event.X3II) W4r. It will be fine for Smartphone certainly but this is not my cup of tea I think! Again, What will be the winner in FiiO USB/DAC category, after pointing the best, E12a Amp ?
> 
> Are RSA P-51 Mustang, The Predator... are in the same league as FiiO ? Have you heard about these nice colorfull amps ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 No, sorry...
  
 I'm waiting for X3 II. SQ is pretty close to X5.


----------



## Skullbox

paulus xii said:


> No, sorry...
> 
> I'm waiting for X3 II. SQ is pretty close to X5.


 Ok, yes, E12A best Amp for X3 but, what at your knowledge best in FiiO USB/Dac ?

Thx!


----------



## Paulus XII

Have never tried FiiO USB/DACs.


----------



## Tuneslover

skullbox said:


> Thank for comments! Yup, W series sound more fun, musical to me, same as my W4r ! UM series is more "stage" monitor, it have less LO freq in it. W series is more "Audiophile" genre in mind!
> I still have the UM3x, that have change couple weeks later for the W4r. Never use, yet, my IEM amped! Am an hurry to see all the transformation! ....




Well I went for it, $200 Canadian. Yea the W30 sounds (tuned) like my speaker system so that's great when I'm on the go and want a home stereo sound. The UMPro30 is still a very good sounding set, the bass is much tighter, cleaner and digs deeper, whereas the W30 can't handle the sub bass as nicely. Both are terrific earphones for different reasons. Rock on!


----------



## hakushondaimao

replicant187 said:


> my Picollo sounds really nice with IEMs but can't help wonder how E12A sounds like...my wallet!


 

 I have both. Can't complain about either, but I find the Piccolo a little warmer than the E12A. They're both excellent with IEMs as they have practically no hiss, and non-overpowering low gain settings. Use them on high gain with my HD598 to great effect, and am waiting for the arrival of my K7XX to test their abilities with slightly harder-to-drive cans.


----------



## riodgarp

now I'm confused about to buy this for universal use as amplifier or buy e17k which has coax input that can be used with X3 2nd gen (still considering buying this!) but a little weaker on amplifier side than e12a lol


----------



## nmatheis

riodgarp said:


> now I'm confused about to buy this for universal use as amplifier or buy e17k which has coax input that can be used with X3 2nd gen (still considering buying this!) but a little weaker on amplifier side than e12a lol




Why would you want to buy E17K to use as a DAC with X3-2?


----------



## riodgarp

nmatheis said:


> Why would you want to buy E17K to use as a DAC with X3-2?


 
 some review said its better use x3 2nd gen with coax to e17k


----------



## nmatheis

riodgarp said:


> some review said its better use x3 2nd gen with coax to e17k




Link? 

:blink:


----------



## Dobrescu George

riodgarp said:


> some review said its better use x3 2nd gen with coax to e17k


 
 e17k is under x5 and x3, and as i understand x3II is close to x5. given the amp power, e18 still would need a secondary amp, so x3II is better used alone.
  
 e17j is not even close to x3II.


----------



## riodgarp

nmatheis said:


> Link?
> 
> :blink:




sorry my fault, they said e17k better used as dac via coaxial than used as amplifier via aux with fiio x5 http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RtKE63hGVfE and this review http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tGCN4jnzxRI sorry indonesian language




dobrescu george said:


> e17k is somewhere very very close to x5, and as i understand x3II is also close to x5. given the amp power, e17k still would need a secondary amp, so x3II is better used alone.




if e17k needed secondary amp then should I considering e12a?


----------



## Dobrescu George

riodgarp said:


> sorry my fault, they said e17k better used as dac via coaxial than used as amplifier via aux with fiio x5 http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RtKE63hGVfE and this review http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tGCN4jnzxRI sorry indonesian language
> if e17k needed secondary amp then should I considering e12a?


 
 okay, so, what do you have right now?
  
 if you are powering iems, e12a is un-beateable at the moment, but this is in my opinion. 
  
 as far as what dac/dap to carry, i strongly recommend against a 3 piece kit.
  
 you can live with only x3II, or x5. e12a adds soundstage and makes everything a little clearer.
  
 if you want to add, x3II and e12a should be more than enough for listening greatness. if you want even better, x5+e12a. or you can wait at the moment for x5II or x7 to come out, though it may take a few months.


----------



## TripBitShooter

dobrescu george said:


> e17k is somewhere very very close to x5, and as i understand x3II is also close to x5. given the amp power, e17k still would need a secondary amp, so x3II is better used alone.


Woah wait... How is the E17k close to the X5???? First I heard that.


----------



## riodgarp

I did't own a 'most wanted' iem or earbud, but my current setup sounds dry and cold


----------



## Dobrescu George

tripbitshooter said:


> Woah wait... How is the E17k close to the X5???? First I heard that.


 
 sorry!
  
 meant e18. e18 is close to x5. e17k is not.
  
 i got them confused
  
 i corrected my own posts...
  
 for @riodgarp what exactly do you own and plan to buy? i think that i misunderstood the situation a little


----------



## TripBitShooter

Its OK skerry. I just hate how the E17k still sounds warm, as bowei006 stated in his review. Right now I'm gunning for either the iBasso D-Zero MK2 or the FiiO X1


----------



## Dobrescu George

tripbitshooter said:


> Its OK skerry. I just hate how the E17k still sounds warm, as bowei006 stated in his review. Right now I'm gunning for either the iBasso D-Zero MK2 or the FiiO X1


 
 i only heared x1, and it was pretty nice.. i have no ideea how ibasso fares against.


----------



## snellemin

So today during my lunch hour, I put together a new 3.5 - 3.5mm wire to connect between my iphone and E12A.  I just used spare items I had laying around.  What difference it made on my MDR-V6.  I got more bass out of it compared to the F "FiiO L16 Professional 3.5mm to 3.5mm Short Cable".  However it doesn't sound as "spacious"  as the FIIO.  I had made the wire so that I could use the FIIO 30pin to 3.5mm adapter.  Connected from there, it sounds really nice.  Coming from the headphone output, it does different.  But I'll have to mess with the EQ settings some more and see if I gain it back.  I do enjoy the extra bass.


----------



## jazzytones

Hi everyone.
  
 I just purchased this amp based on recommendations here. I upgraded my setup from iPhone 5S->Westone W40/4R to FiiO X5->E12A->W40/4R
  
 I must say this is quite the improvement. Everything sounds punchier and the sound is really filled out across frequencies. There is a noticeable amount of increased sound stage too.
  
 I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on me running the E12A all the time during the day while at work. I do telesales via computer with my Sennheiser PC 350 SE headset and really like how these cans sound using the FiiO X5 as a DAC into the E12A. Will running the E12A for 8-10 hours daily have any implications?


----------



## Paulus XII

I don't notice any increased soundstage, but definitely notice a punchier sound and (much) better instrument separation/layering with X3 as DAP/Westone W40. I think it's the much increased layering that gives you the perception of a larger soundstage. Not quite sure though.


----------



## nmatheis

So I *think* I remember reading that E17 is very similar to X3 and E17K is very similar to X3-II as far as amp stage and sound signature are concerned. Forgive me if my memory's failing, but I'm not seeing added value in stacking one of those DACs with the respective DAP.


----------



## KLJTech

jazzytones said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> I just purchased this amp based on recommendations here. I upgraded my setup from iPhone 5S->Westone W40/4R to FiiO X5->E12A->W40/4R
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not at all, you'll simply lose some of its stored charge, but that always happens with use...simply charge it back up once you're home.


----------



## jazzytones

kljtech said:


> Not at all, you'll simply lose some of its stored charge, but that always happens with use...simply charge it back up once you're home.


 
 I just leave it charging at my computer. Any issues with that? I notice the amp is a bit warm but I think there's a warranty if I have any issues.
  
 Thanks for the reply.


----------



## paaaatrickren

Hey, sorry, unrelated but can you pm regarding your westones please? I reached my daily limit


----------



## KLJTech

jazzytones said:


> I just leave it charging at my computer. Any issues with that? I notice the amp is a bit warm but I think there's a warranty if I have any issues.
> 
> Thanks for the reply.


 
  
 I believe any portable device that is built to play while charging will be perfectly fine being used that way. I don't see why that would be a problem. You can check FiiO's website. Good luck.


----------



## Dobrescu George

jazzytones said:


> I just leave it charging at my computer. Any issues with that? I notice the amp is a bit warm but I think there's a warranty if I have any issues.
> 
> Thanks for the reply.


 
 you are going to destroy the batterry at worst.. 
  
 warranty works for one year or two, then it costs to change it. if you are fine with paying for a new, you can do it, only battery can degrade, that is it.


nmatheis said:


> So I *think* I remember reading that E17 is very similar to X3 and E17K is very similar to X3-II as far as amp stage and sound signature are concerned. Forgive me if my memory's failing, but I'm not seeing added value in stacking one of those DACs with the respective DAP.


 
 Sorry, i only auditioned e18 as e17k should had been close to x3, and i did not really liked the warm tone of x3 in general. i am looking forward to an audition of x3II when it comes to RO.
  
  
 but you are totally right, there is zero value to add a DAC from fiio to a DAP from fiio, except maybe for x1, which i don't remember having a coax out, which means that only an amp can be added. 
  
 x5 is really worth stacking with e12 or e12a, depending on what one drives though, same goes for x3 line, and x1, but adding anything else than e12 or e12a did not seem to add value to stacking in my experience.


----------



## Dobrescu George

kljtech said:


> I believe any portable device that is built to play while charging will be perfectly fine being used that way. I don't see why that would be a problem. Good luck.


 
 i vaguely remember than when e12 and e12a first came out there was a thing where someone said that they were not build to play while charging...
  
 though i might be wrong. am i wrong, and they can be used while charging?


----------



## KLJTech

dobrescu george said:


> i vaguely remember than when e12 and e12a first came out there was a thing where someone said that they were not build to play while charging...
> 
> though i might be wrong. am i wrong, and they can be used while charging?


 
  
 I've never used mine while charging. If I'm home or at the office then I simply use my full-size gear and plug my portable gear in for charging. _It's probably best that he checks with FiiO or their website_...I may well have wrongly assumed that if it's made to run while charging its fine. I apologize if I was mistaken/wrong/stupid about if being okay to do.


----------



## jazzytones

dobrescu george said:


> you are going to destroy the batterry at worst..
> 
> warranty works for one year or two, then it costs to change it. if you are fine with paying for a new, you can do it, only battery can degrade, that is it.


 
 If I keep it plugged in will it still degrade the battery? Or is it running straight off of the power?


----------



## WitzyZed

E12 never gave me any problems while charging during use. Didn't have the most revealing cans but YMMV. Only problem was the shorty short short charging cable


----------



## Skullbox

jazzytones said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> I just purchased this amp based on recommendations here. I upgraded my setup from iPhone 5S->Westone W40/4R to FiiO X5->E12A->W40/4R
> 
> ...


 I still have similar setup, W4r with X1 (eventualy X3II) What the point using E12A amp. Does W4r ou X5 need more power ? I was thinking that X5/X3II as enough energy init to drive this fantastic IEM!! What realy all this will change at the end ? Subtil raise of SQ ?


----------



## jazzytones

skullbox said:


> I still have similar setup, W4r with X1 (eventualy X3II) What the point using E12A amp. Does W4r ou X5 need more power ? I was thinking that X5 as enough energy init to drive this fantastic IEM!! What realy all this will change at the end ? Subtil raise of SQ ?


 
 I am much more satisfied with the sound of X5 with E12A than X5 alone. The sound is consistent across the spectrum meaning that I hear all frequencies well. Without the amp the sound is missing that fullness. Often "louder" is perceived as "better" but in this case I think it sounds better at similar volumes. The difference is somewhat subtle and may not be worth the price for some.
  
 Note that I am a musician and formerly was a sound engineer for a few years, so I am much more sensitive and perceptive to small changes. The difference is somewhat subtle but it is worth keeping the E12A for me (I could easily return it as I got it through Amazon Prime). I will tell you that the difference with/without the amp is much more noticable (by a factor of 2x-4x) when using the amp to drive my Sennheiser cans (PC 350 SE headset) versus my W40s and W4R.


----------



## KLJTech

skullbox said:


> I still have similar setup, W4r with X1 (eventualy X3II) What the point using E12A amp. Does W4r ou X5 need more power ? I was thinking that X5 as enough energy init to drive this fantastic IEM!! What realy all this will change at the end ? Subtil raise of SQ ?


 
  
 My wife has the X1 and I have the X3 with the X5 arriving in two days, I get better sound with the X3 & E12A together than running my W40's right out of the X3. In fact, I've used the X3 by itself the past couple days with the W40's and I do notice the difference in clarity and spaciousness that I'm missing without the E12A. Now, that's NOT to say that the X3 isn't a great sounding player and yes you can get all the "volume" you need from the X3 by itself but the E12A is a better amp than the one that's built into the X3. That shouldn't come off as a knock against the X3, at that price point the X3 is stellar, but nothing is perfect.


----------



## jazzytones

jazzytones said:


> If I keep it plugged in will it still degrade the battery? Or is it running straight off of the power?


 
 This question got me thinking...by using both the X5 as a USB Dac and the E12A left charging during use, does this setup degrade both batteries of the X5 and E12A? I would think that it would not as both devices are fully charged after removing the plugs after a day of use at work. If anyone has any insight please let me know.


----------



## Skullbox

kljtech said:


> My wife has the X1 and I have the X3 with the X5 arriving in two days, I get better sound with the X3 & E12A together than running my W40's right out of the X3. In fact, I've used the X3 by itself the past couple days with the W40's and I do notice the difference in clarity and spaciousness that I'm missing without the E12A. Now, that's NOT to say that the X3 isn't a great sounding player and yes you can get all the "volume" you need from the X3 by itself but the E12A is a better amp than the one that's built into the X3. That shouldn't come off as a knock against the X3, at that price point the X3 is stellar, but nothing is perfect.


 Thanks , interested comment! I will see later for E12A. But have to wait to get my hand on that new babe !


----------



## KLJTech

skullbox said:


> Thanks , interested comment! I will see later for E12A. But have to wait to get my hand on that new babe !


 
  
 That's all part of the fun! First you need to enjoy the new DAP and when you're ready then you add the amp...first you gotta grab as much new music as you can afford! Enjoy the new DAP!


----------



## riodgarp

sorry not being clear, [this maybe cause of my left ear got more sensitive to sparkling high and middle frequency] so my last year's setups was Biscuit ™ and d-zero mk1, and I had no issue with sharpie mid and high with that combination, even with Baldoor E100 (this brand new earbud from China has too cold mid) but with ipod touch 4 now I'm facing cold and dry mid, not with Baldoor only but also with px200 or even hd681 evo (my others cans are not warm) so yeah I wanted an amplifier that maybe a little full at middle, yeap already asking about d-zero mk2 but my friend reported mk2 amplifier section was neutral too. shortly I like touch 4 sound signature but doesn't like how d-zero mk1 amplified that. or maybe I stuck on stigma like "audiophiles must use amplifier" lol


----------



## Paulus XII

Just tried something. Dual-amping it with the X3, via Headphone Out. X3 volume as high as possible (88 ideal), E12A High Gain, volume adjusted to comfortable levels (very low as the X3 is very high).
  
 Result: Compared to Line Out, more bass, more details, more treble sparkle, better perception of background instruments, illusion or not illusion of better instrument separation. Try it out just out of curiosity and let me know what you think. ; ) Don't forget, the X3 has the higher volume, as much as possible (I prefer 88 to not hear so many instruments in the same "layer" - you'll understand this later) and the E12A at High Gain and low volume, adjusted to your taste. Some of you will be amazed (or not) of how much better this is compared to Line Out. Of course, YMMV.
  
 These are those discoveries I like!


----------



## Dobrescu George

jazzytones said:


> This question got me thinking...by using both the X5 as a USB Dac and the E12A left charging during use, does this setup degrade both batteries of the X5 and E12A? I would think that it would not as both devices are fully charged after removing the plugs after a day of use at work. If anyone has any insight please let me know.


 
 x5 was made to be used as DAC, it can be used while with full battery left in charging... about e12a you should ask fiio.


riodgarp said:


> sorry not being clear, [this maybe cause of my left ear got more sensitive to sparkling high and middle frequency] so my last year's setups was Biscuit ™ and d-zero mk1, and I had no issue with sharpie mid and high with that combination, even with Baldoor E100 (this brand new earbud from China has too cold mid) but with ipod touch 4 now I'm facing cold and dry mid, not with Baldoor only but also with px200 or even hd681 evo (my others cans are not warm) so yeah I wanted an amplifier that maybe a little full at middle, yeap already asking about d-zero mk2 but my friend reported mk2 amplifier section was neutral too. shortly I like touch 4 sound signature but doesn't like how d-zero mk1 amplified that. *or maybe I stuck on stigma like "audiophiles must use amplifier" lol*


 
 i really do not know how to answer this. 
  
 you should give a try, and see if you like it better. e12a is very neutral. it adds soundstage and separation, but tonality wise, it is neutral, like e12.


paulus xii said:


> Just tried something. Dual-amping it with the X3, via Headphone Out. X3 volume as high as possible (88 ideal), E12A High Gain, volume adjusted to comfortable levels (very low as the X3 is very high).
> 
> Result: Compared to Line Out, more bass, more details, more treble sparkle, better perception of background instruments, illusion or not illusion of better instrument separation. Try it out just out of curiosity and let me know what you think. ; ) Don't forget, the X3 has the higher volume, as much as possible (I prefer 88 to not hear so many instruments in the same "layer" - you'll understand this later) and the E12A at High Gain and low volume, adjusted to your taste. Some of you will be amazed (or not) of how much better this is compared to Line Out. Of course, YMMV.
> 
> These are those discoveries I like!


 
 had you ever tried tube amps?
  
 they add something that is named noise to music, which most audiophiles and normal people like how it sounds. you are adding noise, but you like how it sounds, exactly like there are people loving tube amps.


----------



## Paulus XII

I haven't, but the truth is that I'm really loving this. And the W40's are thanking me : )


----------



## Dobrescu George

paulus xii said:


> I haven't, but the truth is that I'm really loving this. And the W40's are thanking me : )


 
  i guess that you would love how amping with tube amps sounds like.. i did not like how it sounds, but you might really like..


----------



## Paulus XII

I have to try one : )


----------



## lesale08

Anyone here used the e12a to power ie800s plugged on a x1? How was it?


----------



## DiscoProJoe

jazzytones said:


> I just leave it charging at my computer. Any issues with that?


 
  
 I wouldn't think there'd be any issues. Personally, though, I'd recommend a 2-ampere (2A) USB charger plug and a standard electrical extension cord. Charges faster and better, and you can set the female end of the electrical extension cord on top of your desk, and plug the 2A charger into it. Just be sure and unplug the extension cord from the wall when you're not using it.
  
 I can charge my iPod and E12A at the same time (with separate charger plugs) while playing them through my desktop stereo, and without connecting them to the computer. Works great.


----------



## sandman1990

Infact Fiio recommends a 5V 2A source for charging. It will be much faster compared to a computer's USB port that delivers only about 500mA.


----------



## riodgarp

dobrescu george said:


> x5 was made to be used as DAC, it can be used while with full battery left in charging... about e12a you should ask fiio.
> i really do not know how to answer this.
> 
> you should give a try, and see if you like it better. e12a is very neutral. it adds soundstage and separation, but tonality wise, it is neutral, like e12.
> ...



unfortunately there's no audiophiles shop in my city and my friend only had e12 diy, don't know if he have opamp like muses02


----------



## snellemin

I got to mess around with my 10 dollar usb DAC and E12A.  I am not satisfied with the bass coming from my little PC, even with the help of the FIIO.  What a difference the DAC made.  This is one cheap solution if you are a basshead and want the E12A to vibrate your full size headphones. I just enabled the bass in the DAC speaker properties.  Enabled the bass on the E12A and enjoyed some good vibrations.


----------



## Paulus XII

After a week with the E12A I got to say: If you own a X3 you deserve an E12A. What a difference it makes! Not only instrument separation/layering is much improved, you get much and I mean much better treble, more refined and sparkly. X3 treble sounds "dry" and dull when you listen to it without the E12A. This amp has one of the best trebles I've heard, competing with much more expensive amps in that department. After a week this has been a fantastic experience, sometimes I feel tempted to A/B without the E12A (just X3) and definitely don't want to listen to the X3 anymore without the E12A. Now I believe this amp can make a difference even with X5. I told here already that my biggest complain with the JDSLabs C5 was the treble, it was even worse than X3's, now E12A fills this gap and this is a totally pleasant, convincing listening experience.
  
 The E12A not only is a spectacular sounding amp for the price as it has exceptional treble. I'm really impressed.
  
 All my stuff is FiiO now, so many brands out there, so many products and I find myself near audio nirvana with FiiO products. This says something. I was a huge SONY fan before for players, for eg., no longer want to know what do they have to offer. Same for portable amps for IEMs, my search is over.


----------



## sandman1990

paulus xii said:


> After a week with the E12A I got to say: If you own a X3 you deserve an E12A. What a difference it makes! Not only instrument separation/layering is much improved, you get much and I mean much better treble, more refined and sparkly. X3 treble sounds "dry" and dull when you listen to it without the E12A. This amp has one of the best trebles I've heard, competing with much more expensive amps in that department. After a week this has been a fantastic experience, sometimes I feel tempted to A/B without the E12A (just X3) and definitely don't want to listen to the X3 anymore without the E12A. Now I believe this amp can make a difference even with X5. I told here already that my biggest complain with the JDSLabs C5 was the treble, it was even worse than X3's, now E12A fills this gap and this is a totally pleasant, convincing listening experience.
> 
> The E12A not only is a spectacular sounding amp for the price as it has exceptional treble. I'm really impressed.
> 
> All my stuff is FiiO now, so many brands out there, so many products and I find myself near audio nirvana with FiiO products. This says something. I was a huge SONY fan before for players, for eg., no longer want to know what do they have to offer. Same for portable amps for IEMs, my search is over.


 

 Good to know. Will be receiving the E12A next week. Hope its a noticeable step-up from my current E12.


----------



## nmatheis

sandman1990 said:


> Good to know. Will be receiving the E12A next week. Hope its a noticeable step-up from my current E12.




Yes, it will be!!!


----------



## Paulus XII

I also believe that some 50 hours burn-in has improved the amp's sound. Not sure though, but I suspect so. It sounds so so clean now and treble's terrific. Just give this bad boy a pure silver cable, guys. It makes the difference for the FiiO's copper cable (although I think the cable sounds very good). If you want a true quality one, HERE it is.


----------



## Dobrescu George

paulus xii said:


> I also believe that some 50 hours burn-in has improved the amp's sound. Not sure though, but I suspect so. It sounds so so clean now and treble's terrific. Just give this bad boy a pure silver cable, guys. It makes all the difference to the FiiO's "muddy" copper cable. If you want a true quality one, HERE it is.


 
 50$ is too much for a calbe that short, you could invest in other things, the interconnect between amp and DAP is filtered anyways by your ultra high imput impedance in amp. technically, interconnect cables should never make a difference.


----------



## Paulus XII

Oh man, they do! Subtle, but for my sensitive ears they make a difference in the highs and micro-details. Not everyone will be able to notice this though. Don't know, I can and can't go back to copper. And I notice other differences like more bass with the copper cable, but a bit more congested and muddy. Sound is airier and more analytical with the pure silver interconnect. Also expands the soundstage.


----------



## ReizeiMako

dobrescu george said:


> 50$ is too much for a calbe that short, you could invest in other things, the interconnect between amp and DAP is filtered anyways by your ultra high imput impedance in amp. technically, interconnect cables should never make a difference.




I have 2 mini-to-mini cable and their different in term of sound is night and day.


----------



## Paulus XII

reizeimako said:


> I have 2 mini-to-mini cable and their different in term of sound is night and day.


 
  
 I wouldn't say night and day, it's subtle, but perfectly noticeable and worth getting the pure silver.


----------



## Kerouac

reizeimako said:


> I have 2 mini-to-mini cable and their different in term of sound is night and day.


 
 It happens that I did some A-B interconnect testing yesterday. I compared a silver/gold Crystal Picollino to 3 other (and much cheaper) copper interconnects. I could hear the differences clearly (and no thanks, I don't need a blindfold for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) CP gave more details and depth, the soundstage was bigger => the sq just got better with it overall.

 Crystal Picollino imo was the clear winner in that little shoot-out...
  

 Of course there always will be cable/ic believers and non-believers (hello can of worms on the horizon), but I just trust my own ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Still have to get me some E12A sometimes though


----------



## shin0326

Does anyone here tried the X3+E12a+ATH IM50 combo?? I'm planning to buy an E12a for my X3 and Im50 but I don't know if the sound signature will change a lot better from before.


----------



## Dobrescu George

shin0326 said:


> Does anyone here tried the X3+E12a+ATH IM50 combo?? I'm planning to buy an E12a for my X3 and Im50 but I don't know if the sound signature will change a lot better from before.


 
 this could be just me, but i really think that you could get better SQ by buying better iems..


----------



## shin0326

dobrescu george said:


> this could be just me, but i really think that you could get better SQ by buying better iems..


 
 I'm also considering that option, but for now, I don't have much budget for another IEM because I'm on a hunt for an amp probably e12a or e17k. Anyway, thanks for your suggestion. Maybe after buying the amp, I will go look for westone 4r.


----------



## Skullbox

shin0326 said:


> I'm also considering that option, but for now, I don't have much budget for another IEM because I'm on a hunt for an amp probably e12a or e17k. Anyway, thanks for your suggestion. Maybe after buying the amp, I will go look for westone 4r.


Wise choice! Pairing well with X3K & E12A ... with all FiiO products in fact!


----------



## Dobrescu George

shin0326 said:


> I'm also considering that option, but for now, I don't have much budget for another IEM because I'm on a hunt for an amp probably e12a or e17k. Anyway, thanks for your suggestion. Maybe after buying the amp, I will go look for westone 4r.


 
 i can only recommend what i already know, sennheiser ie8. they are just so amazing. and you could pair them with e12a, the sound is so nice!
  
 the only better iem i know of than ie8 are ie800, but i strongly suggest that you test before buying.


----------



## riodgarp

@skerry2006aj  can you suggest me again fiio e12 or e12a ?


----------



## Skullbox

riodgarp said:


> @skerry2006aj  can you suggest me again fiio e12 or e12a ?


 The new E12A. ... Read threads & reviews on this excellent Amp!


----------



## Dobrescu George

riodgarp said:


> @skerry2006aj  can you suggest me again fiio e12 or e12a ?


 
 i had totally forgotton what you were trying to amp. 
  
 for most parts e12a sounds better, but if you are trying to amp something that is a little more demanding, e12a will not be fit. Considering only what is shown in your profile, e12a, but you should come to e12 thread and read there what is recommended too.
  
 On the other hand, i would seriously buy headphones, considering your actual inventory, e12a would not add that much. For example, on ie8 it adds soundstage, clarity and detail, but not to such degree that ie8 becomes ie800, it adds a little of these.
 consider that at 200$ price tag you could fiind a deal on a pair of ie80, or hd598, or ultrasone dj one pro, or urbanite xl, or momentum over the ear, or some other headphone that would float your boat much better than adding an amp to your current headphones. this is not because i know, but because e12a does not chang the sound at all, it adds a little detail, and a little clarity, but not enough to be that much of a worthwhile upgrade if you don't already love tonality and general sound of your headphones... on the other hand, if you already loved your headphones, e12a brings everything to another level.
  
 i still think that you should ask the exact same question to some superlux owners, i have zero experience with them, they might be hard to drive and sound better on e12.
  
 Anyways, i would also advice you to not rush and spend some time testing, and if not possible, choose a place with at least 15-30 days return policy.


----------



## riodgarp

but considering the price factor in my country, e12a is $200 but e12 only $150 and my friend is about to sell his e12 for only $90 sure I will get the e12 anyway


----------



## Paulus XII

Listen, E12A has much better SQ, the only thing is: it's for IEMs and low impedance headphones.


----------



## Dobrescu George

riodgarp said:


> but considering the price factor in my country, e12a is $200 but e12 only $150 and my friend is about to sell his e12 for only $90 sure I will get the e12 anyway


 
 e12a is 200$ in my country too!
  
 sure, you can get e12 and e12a too, they sound different, but e12 is not usable with iems.
  
  


paulus xii said:


> Listen, E12A has much better SQ, the only thing is: it's for IEMs and low impedance headphones.


 
 depends on headphone, with big guys, e12a sounds lifeless. with iems, e12a is a bliss.
  
 DAC also matters, i would advice one to get fiio x5 before e12a, as an x5 would add much more to sound than a secondary amp;


----------



## Paulus XII

Thats what I said


----------



## shin0326

skullbox said:


> Wise choice! Pairing well with X3K & E12A ... with all FiiO products in fact!


 
 Can't wait to buy my own E12a and soon W4r!!!


----------



## shin0326

dobrescu george said:


> i can only recommend what i already know, sennheiser ie8. they are just so amazing. and you could pair them with e12a, the sound is so nice!
> 
> the only better iem i know of than ie8 are ie800, but i strongly suggest that you test before buying.


 
 IE8 or W4r?? watcha think??


----------



## lesale08

shin0326 said:


> IE8 or W4r?? watcha think??


 if you listen to mostly slow paced songs, and you want a wow factor at initial listen, the ie8 might be best for you. Sound sig is more on bass side with smooth treble and thick and lush mids. Westone 4 is more on the balance side with no particular frequency emphasized but you wont get that wow factor upon initial listen to it.


----------



## Dobrescu George

shin0326 said:


> IE8 or W4r?? watcha think??


 
 i am sorry, but i never listened to w4r. i would anyways choose ie8 due to soundstage, and dat mids.
  
 also, the treble is more quiet but hte best is great.
  
 ie8 needs a mod, in which you need to take some duct tape,and apply two pieces over the bass setting port. this is because by default, the sound is quite veiled, but, if you do this, separation becomes better, no veil, and everything sounds better from all points of view.
  
  
 you should listen and see what you actually want, ie8 is a bass monster with a huge soundstage, w4r is neither, but has many other advantages.


----------



## Paulus XII

You ruin the IE80's by doing that. Bye bye bass and soundstage. Just my opinion.
  
 Concerning IE80 vs W4r, its a big LOL. It's like comparing a Fiat to a Ferrari.


----------



## Dobrescu George

paulus xii said:


> You ruin the IE80's by doing that. Bye bye bass and soundstage. Just my opinion.
> 
> Concerning IE80 vs W4r, its a big LOL. It's like comparing a Fiat to a Ferrari.


 
 really?
  
 ie8 gets just the best sound. soundstage becomes not only real, but exactly how it should have been, huge.
  
 do not cover ports completley. this destroys everything, you maxe an X of smaller dubct tapes, leaving a small breathing hole... this makes everything awesome.
  
 comparing ie8 to everything, there was only one better, ie800 which was better by a margin, without being veiled, worth the price. but that was it. nothing else touched or came close to ie8, from my tests. also i had not tested w4, or anything from the company. i tested sennheiser, yamaha, and a few other iems, ie8 came second to ie800 as being the best sounding iem...
  
 If i will have the chance i promise to test w4, i am also curious, maybe it beats ie8, i cannot compare, from my tests, only ie800 beat ie8, but there are also products i had not heared.


----------



## shin0326

lesale08 said:


> if you listen to mostly slow paced songs, and you want a wow factor at initial listen, the ie8 might be best for you. Sound sig is more on bass side with smooth treble and thick and lush mids. Westone 4 is more on the balance side with no particular frequency emphasized but you wont get that wow factor upon initial listen to it.


 
 i think ie8 sound sig is just like my im50?


----------



## Dobrescu George

shin0326 said:


> i think ie8 sound sig is just like my im50?


 
 not. ie8 sounds like... i do not know, it is a unique signature...
  
 how do i put it. It sounds extremely detailed, the best soundstage in a IEM ever, average separation between instruments, lots of bass, a nice treble that is far from being harsh, it can bee not enough treble at times, and mids that are sweet, just awesome. 
  
 Consider it like this, my main headphones are ultrasone dj one pro, they sound like signature dj, and ie800 from sennheiser.
  
 for some guitar songs, ie8 sounds sweeter.
  
 at the same time, for electronic instruments, ie8 sounds too real, and does make everything seem less electronic.
  
 depends on what you listen and the source.. You can fiind more data on ie8/80 forums/reviews... 
  
 This is becoming a little off-topic...
  
 On-topic, how do i connect x5 to e12, without the stacking kit?


----------



## Skullbox

shin0326 said:


> IE8 or W4r?? watcha think??


 Both are excellent! Two diff signatures! I think, one is more bassy than the other, i don't know about IE8. But... I still crazy about my W4r for 2 years now!


----------



## Paulus XII

IE8 = mehhh (JVC FX700 are WAY better)
  
 W40 = best IEMs I have ever heard. IE8 is a toy compared to this.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I should really try them, if they are as bannanas as you say, but they are not in any showroom in my entire country. Meh, i am quite happy with ie8, and ie800 are the best i had ever heared, i really liked the sound.
  
 have you tried your ie8 with my V2 half tape mod? It might make you think different. I also tested ie800, ultrasone signature pro, hd800, lcd3 and ultrasone edition 5 and a few others expensive ones. ie8 are able to retreive all details, with just a little veil, compared to ie800. they sound better than every headphone and iem i tried that was in it's price range or cheaper. ie800 beat ie8, and so did most more expensive headphones, with proper amping.
  
 i am yet to test in depth e12a and ie8 to give impressions.
  
 all my test were done with fiio x5, chord hugo and a few other amps, for most headphones and iems.
  
 You never know what type of sound signature you are into. i recently discovered that sennheiser has something they do to their mids, that make their products so much better than competition for me, except for the fact, that good models are open, so i have to use ultrasone because ultrasone is closed back...
  
 i can only say this, one can be really happy with yamaha eph-100, re-600 and ie8, depending on what he is searching for, *and one should really try before buying. *


----------



## lesale08

Wrong thread


----------



## Dobrescu George

lesale08 said:


> Can you redirect me to the page for modding the ie8s and 80s please? Interested to try.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/760226/ie8-ie80-mod-for-better-sound-v2-photo-added
  
 sure!
  
 have fun with the new, better sound!


----------



## Paulus XII

W40 is at least as good as IE800 and better in some areas. So comparing IE80 to W4r is like comparing tuna pasta to caviar


----------



## Dobrescu George

paulus xii said:


> W40 is at least as good as IE800 and better in some areas. So comparing IE80 to W4r is like comparing tuna pasta to caviar


 
 i totally get your point,..
  
 the best thing the one who searches can do is listen before buying. 
  
 i belived that chord hugo was not worth the money, before getting a listen to it. it is worth the money, belive me.
  
 as much as for example, momentum series are a no deal for me, and urbanite XL are awesome.
  
 i think that in terms of what one likes, listening before buying is necessary..
  
  
  
  
  
 As this is E12A thread, i have an important question.
  
 Is anyone using E12A for listening to headphones? if yes, what are the hardest to drive that e12a can make sound better than fiio x5 alone or e12. i am curious to see what it can drive at max, and from what point i need to buy e12...


----------



## DiscoProJoe

> Originally Posted by *DiscoProJoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Personally, my only complaint about the iPod Classic is that its digital EQ (if used) will often _audibly distort the sound _on a lot of newer music, prompting me to settle for a different EQ setting that doesn't distort it, or to settle for it at "flat" or "off." On most '80s music, the EQ doesn't distort the sound at all, but it does on a lot of newer music.
> ...


 
  
 Boo-yah! Problem solved! I just Rockboxed my iPod in the last week and started a whole new topic thread about my own personalized EQ presets, which you can download and use if you have a compatible music player.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/760401/rockbox-my-186-custom-eq-presets-you-can-download-and-easily-use
  
 Happy EQ-ing!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And oh yeah,...the iPod Classic's hardware is _*awesome*_*.* It's the original Apple firmware on it that sucks like hell and makes it sound bad.


----------



## Dobrescu George

anyone detecting any noise from e12a if used while it is charging? does it get better if charged from an external wall charger, or usb hub which is connected to wall for power?


----------



## DiscoProJoe

dobrescu george said:


> anyone detecting any noise from e12a if used while it is charging? does it get better if charged from an external wall charger, or usb hub which is connected to wall for power?


 
  
 When I first got my E12A, I tried using a USB extension line with a 2A charger plug, and got _lots_ of weird high-pitched whining noise coming from the amp. The pulsating speed of the red light was also pretty slow. After a few minutes I realized something was wrong, and tried connecting it directly to the 2A charger plug without the USB extension line. Problem solved.
  
 So then, I simply got a standard electrical extension cord out of the closet and used it instead of the USB extension. Problem totally solved!
  
 Anyway, it's probably not a good idea to use a USB hub with the E12A. It needs a direct source of clean power for proper charging.


----------



## snellemin

Only high pitch whine that I got coming from the E12A, is from trying to use my cheapy cellphone battery backup for recharging.


----------



## Dobrescu George

snellemin said:


> Only high pitch whine that I got coming from the E12A, is from trying to use my cheapy cellphone battery backup for recharging.


 
 interesting. i have two things. first an usb hub, i do not remeber the power, and the wall charger for my phone, which is rated 1.5A.. i hope that using my phone charger can provide enough power for me to not have any noise.
  
 quick question, noise was audible, also when not playing music?


----------



## snellemin

dobrescu george said:


> As this is E12A thread, i have an important question.
> 
> Is anyone using E12A for listening to headphones? if yes, what are the hardest to drive that e12a can make sound better than fiio x5 alone or e12. i am curious to see what it can drive at max, and from what point i need to buy e12...


 
 I'm using my E12A with my Sony MDR-V6 for about 5 hours nearly everyday.  Other than that I use my Monster Turbines which sound really nice with the E12A.  I wouldn't know what the hardest to drive headphones would be for the E12A.  I don't blast the volume up much, so I don't need the power of the E12.  But it does drive my headphones plenty loud with more than enough bass.  I still have my home stereo that plays plenty loud if I feel the need for a "Rush".


----------



## snellemin

dobrescu george said:


> interesting. i have two things. first an usb hub, i do not remeber the power, and the wall charger for my phone, which is rated 1.5A.. i hope that using my phone charger can provide enough power for me to not have any noise.
> 
> quick question, noise was audible, also when not playing music?


 
 Noise was audible while the unit was off, while charging.  
  
 I use my laptop USB 3.0 charge port and my 2A power adapter from my wife's Kindle tablet.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Driving hard to drive means if it is able to make expensive headphones sound to full potential.
  
 About sounding loud, i only ever had problems with hifiman he-560, hd650, and hd800 not being loud enough out of fiio x5, the rest were enough loud all the time. I had not tested LCD out of fiio x5.
  
 but, besides those, every headphone was enough loud and enough driven from fiio x5 alone. i guess that the same things that fiio x5 can drive at full power e12a can drive too.
  
 I had a wierd experience when testing e12, in which my ultrasone dj one pro, rated 64ohm, and 115db spl, sounded better with a different tonality than from my fiio x5. I had found the sweet spot with dj one pro around volume 84 on x5, with eq off, and low gain, with e12 i needed less [probably around half volume, on low gain]


----------



## DiscoProJoe

dobrescu george said:


> quick question, noise was audible, also when not playing music?


 
  
 When I had that noise problem while charging, I also tried playing music through it, and _still didn't get any music noise_. The high-pitched whining noise was coming from a circuit board from inside the amp. Once I stopped using that 5-foot (1.7-meter) female-to-male USB extension cable, that whining noise went away and the unit charged properly.


----------



## ph0n6

I suggest avoid using the Unit while charging, it is bad for the battery and as some of you mentioned above, noise. But this applied to every electronic device out there really.


----------



## Skullbox

discoprojoe said:


> When I had that noise problem while charging, I also tried playing music through it, and _still didn't get any music noise_. The high-pitched whining noise was coming from a circuit board from inside the amp. Once I stopped using that 5-foot (1.7-meter) female-to-male USB extension cable, that whining noise went away and the unit charged properly.


Maybe am wrong, the cable act as an ANTENA,and send some noise to the DAP !?


----------



## mahaqmi

Guys i need a help. I bought ath-im70 but plugging it on my xperia z1 makes a really loud hiss and it's really annoying. If i buy a portable amplifier such as the ffio e12a or e11k would it make the hiss gone or it will amplify the hiss instead? 

Also if you guys dont mind me asking does the SQ really improved from e11k to e12a as the price is twice more?


----------



## ph0n6

mahaqmi said:


> Guys i need a help. I bought ath-im70 but plugging it on my xperia z1 makes a really loud hiss and it's really annoying. If i buy a portable amplifier such as the ffio e12a or e11k would it make the hiss gone or it will amplify the hiss instead?
> 
> Also if you guys dont mind me asking does the SQ really improved from e11k to e12a as the price is twice more?


 
  
 The hiss is caused by the internal amp of the phone. so you must bypass it with a portable DAC/Amp like the JDS C5D, Fiio E18, or the iBasso Dzero MkII for cheaper alternative. Or you can get an Increase Impedance Adapter like I do. which is about 40$ for high quality part (like Apuresound) or just merely 10$ for Dunu one (if you want for info on it, just use Google). On the case of E12A and E11K, the E12A is pretty much better in every area, but whether it worth the price jump is your to decide, just always remember "Law of Diminishing Return".


----------



## DiscoProJoe

mahaqmi said:


> Guys i need a help. I bought ath-im70 but plugging it on my xperia z1 makes a really loud hiss and it's really annoying. If i buy a portable amplifier such as the ffio e12a or e11k would it make the hiss gone or it will amplify the hiss instead?
> 
> Also if you guys dont mind me asking does the SQ really improved from e11k to e12a as the price is twice more?


 
  
 I haven't listened to the E11K, but I've got the E12A, and it's awesome. The bass boost on the latter sounds great, too.
  
 You can compare the bass-boost response curves on both units:
  
E11K bass boost response curve
  
E12A bass boost response curve
  
 The former only boosts 30 Hz by 1 dB; the latter boosts it by 6 dB. 'Nuff said.


----------



## DiscoProJoe

skullbox said:


> Maybe am wrong, the cable act as an ANTENA,and send some noise to the DAP !?


 
  
 I couldn't hear any noise in the headphones when it had that charging problem; it was coming directly from inside the amp. So, that USB extension cable probably wasn't acting as an antenna. I bet it was just designed for data transfer only, and not for charging.


----------



## DiscoProJoe

Well guys, in light of this new topic thread I started about my custom EQ presets in Rockbox, I discovered something new about the E12A. If you want it to pump_ massive levels of bass_ to your headphones while using gigantic bass EQ-ing on your DAP (coupled with the bass boost switch on the amp), then there's an interesting limitation I ran into. When connecting a _second pair of headphones_ to the E12A by using a Y-adaptor and running two pairs off the amp together, the hard-hitting bass thumps will easily _*max out the amp*_ when cranking it up! (This causes amp clipping and audible distortion.) So in other words, if you use huge amounts of bass in your EQ, and if you want a friend to go for a walk with you while enjoying the same music together, then you'll need to *buy a second E12A unit* and use the Y-adaptor splitter on the line-out jack of your DAP, instead!
  
 In the coming months I do plan on getting a second E12A, and a second pair of M-100s for this purpose.  But there's also an additional advantage to this type of setup: if my friend doesn't want the music as loud as I do, _she can turn it down on her *own amp*_ while I enjoy mine at the volume I want!  If she doesn't want so much bass, she also can switch off the bass boost on her own amp as well.  As usual, I'd have the volume on my amp set at max while controlling the volume from the iPod, so I wouldn't have to worry about her turning *up* the volume louder than my amp and damaging the equipment.
  
 Thoughts,...anyone? Anyone tried this before?


----------



## Dobrescu George

discoprojoe said:


> Well guys, in light of this new topic thread I started about my custom EQ presets in Rockbox, I discovered something new about the E12A. If you want it to pump_ massive levels of bass_ to your headphones while using gigantic bass EQ-ing on your DAP (coupled with the bass boost switch on the amp), then there's an interesting limitation I ran into. When connecting a _second pair of headphones_ to the E12A by using a Y-adaptor and running two pairs off the amp together, the hard-hitting bass thumps will easily _*max out the amp*_ when cranking it up! (This causes amp clipping and audible distortion.) So in other words, if you use huge amounts of bass in your EQ, and if you want a friend to go for a walk with you while enjoying the same music together, then you'll need to *buy a second E12A unit* and use the Y-adaptor splitter on the line-out jack of your DAP, instead!
> 
> In the coming months I do plan on getting a second E12A, and a second pair of M-100s for this purpose.  But there's also an additional advantage to this type of setup: if my friend doesn't want the music as loud as I do, _she can turn it down on her *own amp*_ while I enjoy mine at the volume I want!  If she doesn't want so much bass, she also can switch off the bass boost on her own amp as well.  As usual, I'd have the volume on my amp set at max while controlling the volume from the iPod, so I wouldn't have to worry about her turning *up* the volume louder than my amp and damaging the equipment.
> 
> Thoughts,...anyone? Anyone tried this before?


 
 had not even thought this before.
  
 most of times i listen something else than people near me.


----------



## Skullbox

ph0n6 said:


> The hiss is caused by the internal amp of the phone. so you must bypass it with a portable DAC/Amp like the JDS C5D, Fiio E18, or the iBasso Dzero MkII for cheaper alternative. Or you can get an Increase Impedance Adapter like I do. which is about 40$ for high quality part (like Apuresound) or just merely 10$ for Dunu one (if you want for info on it, just use Google). On the case of E12A and E11K, the E12A is pretty much better in every area, but whether it worth the price jump is your to decide, just always remember "Law of Diminishing Return".


Kunlun E18, Andes E07K, finaly the Alpen E17k is good alternatives to !


----------



## Tuneslover

mahaqmi said:


> Guys i need a help. I bought ath-im70 but plugging it on my xperia z1 makes a really loud hiss and it's really annoying. If i buy a portable amplifier such as the ffio e12a or e11k would it make the hiss gone or it will amplify the hiss instead?
> 
> Also if you guys dont mind me asking does the SQ really improved from e11k to e12a as the price is twice more?


 
 I really liked my portable rig which consisted of the FiiO E11K and 80 ohm Beyerdynamic DT1350's.  Recently I decided to upgrade to the E12a as I was looking for an amp that is better suited to drive IEM's (as in low noise floor).  Since upgrading to the E12A I acquired the Westone UMPro30 and W30 IEM's and the E12A does a terrific job with them and still is able to drive my DT1350's beautifully.
  
 Using my DT1350's as a means for a comparing both amps, I would say that the E12A sounds more refined (less harsh) and a bit more revealing than the E11.  The difference isn't shockingly large but it is noticeable to my ears.  Where the E12A shines is if you plan on using IEM's as the E12A is totally jet black quiet.  If you don't plan on using IEM's, the E11K is an absolutely terrific amp, especially for the price.


----------



## mdiogofs

Just got this one. I believe it's a bit smooth at treble and not very detailed (maybe from the smoothness). I was expecting more micro details. Or more presence of them, cause the smoothness tame this a bit. Does this need burn in?
  
 I was using a HiFime 9018 DAC and a Topping NX1. I was expecting a bit more from this. I was expected to be amazed but that didn't happen much. Does this change much with usage?


----------



## Dobrescu George

mdiogofs said:


> Just got this one. I believe it's a bit smooth at treble and not very detailed (maybe from the smoothness). I was expecting more micro details. Or more presence of them, cause the smoothness tame this a bit. Does this need burn in?
> 
> I was using a HiFime 9018 DAC and a Topping NX1. I was expecting a bit more from this. I was expected to be amazed but that didn't happen much. Does this change much with usage?


 
 if you are not impressed at first, you will never be.
  
 try to listen to it while it is warm. muses op-amps are known to changen signature a lot with temperature. listen to it for 30 minutes, then you should hear a difference. or let it play for 30 minutes, until it is warm to touch, even hot, maybe. after this, it is operational at full potential.
  
 also the DAC you use is worth less than e12a, it is normal that you will not be that pleased. I would advice you to get a better DAC, before a better amp, as the DAC does the micro detail retrieval, and i think that the DAC does throttle your system. i read in multiple places that it does sound like fiio e10k, which is not that great. maybe you can test e12a with a better DAC, like a fiio x5, or an dragonfly, or something more detailed.
  
 I just want to help you to get closer to what you are searching for, do not blame me for being straight with you, and i think that there are many more better DACs than those from fiio, but those from fiio have the best price/performance ratio i know of, and are totally worth it.
  
 sorry if you feel offended, i might not express exatly what i mean due to the fact that i am not a ntavie english speaker.


----------



## mdiogofs

dobrescu george said:


> also the DAC you use is worth less than e12a, it is normal that you will not be that pleased. I would advice you to get a better DAC, before a better amp, as the DAC does the micro detail retrieval, and i think that the DAC does throttle your system. i read in multiple places that it does sound like fiio e10k, which is not that great. maybe you can test e12a with a better DAC, like a fiio x5, or an dragonfly, or something more detailed.


 
 I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying that I was expecting more treble clarity, just that. But it's great, I just thought it would be like a game changer and I was wrong. The game changer was when I got this "bad" DAC 
  
 My DAC is the same that is on iBasso DX90. Just that DX90 has 2 of this DACs, one for each channel acting as mono. It's a ES9018K2M. The "mobile" version of the acclaimed ES9018.
  
 And a dragonfly uses a inferior DAC, the ES9023. That I also have this DAC in the HiFime Android Sabre DAC. Or the Tiny DAC also has it.
  
 It's not the DAC. Maybe I just need to warm things up. Our burn in more, it just has about 10 hours of playing. Or just let my brain adapt to the sound sig. I already noticed it has great excellent instrument separation and very rich mids. I just wasn't expected the bit smooth up top. Even in T-PEOS Altone 200 I can notice this


----------



## Dobrescu George

mdiogofs said:


> I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying that I was expecting more treble clarity, just that. But it's great, I just thought it would be like a game changer and I was wrong. The game changer was when I got this "bad" DAC
> 
> My DAC is the same that is on iBasso DX90. Just that DX90 has 2 of this DACs, one for each channel acting as mono. It's a ES9018K2M. The "mobile" version of the acclaimed ES9018.
> 
> ...


 
 hm...
  
 it should not be smoother than fiio x5.
  
 for me, fiio x5 was a real game changer. i am still thinking wether to buy or not e12a. i think i am going to have a longer listen to it before deciding. i will take my ie8 and dj one pro, and listen a little carefully comparing e12a to x5.


----------



## mdiogofs

dobrescu george said:


> try to listen to it while it is warm. muses op-amps are known to changen signature a lot with temperature. listen to it for 30 minutes, then you should hear a difference. or let it play for 30 minutes, until it is warm to touch, even hot, maybe. after this, it is operational at full potential.




You dear sir, you could be absolutely right on this  

I think I was getting impressions at cold and that influenced me. 

I let the E12A warm for 1 hour and then I went to listen to Hotel California by The Eagles, 24/192 the hdtracks version, and... 

... It sounds amazing  never listened something like this. Yes, now I can say, great 170 Euro spent! 

I'm still getting used to this upper grade sound, less harsh and more refined. 

Don't know about X5, I'm only familiar with the mobile ES Sabre DACs. 

This kit that I have is probably the best sound money can buy under $300. JDS Labs C5D probably has a worse DAC. JDS Labs C5 is said to be just a bit better than E12A, but this last has richer mids, my preference. CypherLabs Picollo amp is said to be much better but is also 400$ just alone. Picollo DAC could be interesting but is also much more expensive. This kit should also not sound that inferior to ibasso Dx90, personal I believe it's on the same level of better because of the maybe better E12A amplification. 

Well, I'm curious about the JDS labs C5... With maybe "better" and a bit harsher treble. But I'm very happy with this sound with the E12a. It very natural, still getting used to it. I was used to harsher treble...

But yep, game changer here for me with the E12a


----------



## Dobrescu George

mdiogofs said:


> You dear sir, you could be absolutely right on this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 i am happy i could have been of help!
  
 muses op-amps are a technological wonder.
  
 if you have ibasso dx90, you already have one of the best DACs on market.
  
 the thing with fiio x5, is the price/performance ratio. for my ears, it managed to beat all the competition, and while on being inexpensive. consider that i preffered buying an x5 over hifiman, ibasoo and AK players, due to price and other parts of daps, but the DAC part was very similar in all of them.
  
 in fact, to be sincere, the only very different DAC i heared to this day remains hugo, which has a very different sound, which i will buy, sooner or later, because i was extremely impressed. 
  
 I am also having very very high hopes for fiio x7, it promises to do a lot with SQ.


----------



## nmatheis

mdiogofs: I can see where you'd feel like you're missing some high end transitioning from a SABRE amp/DAC to an E12A. I've got an iBasso DX90 (SABRE), and it's got aggressive highs. Some really like this. Others find it too piercing and prefer smoother highs like you get with the E12A or X5. 

It's funny that people have commented on X5's piercing highs compared to X3. They need to experience a SABRE DAC and really get their ears cleaned out :wink_face:


----------



## Paulus XII

Can I just turn it on for 1 hour or so, or it has to be playing something? Would like to check that.
  
 This amp still amazes me everyday. The sinergy with the Westone W40 is astonishing. Impressive treble and separation. What a money well spent without a doubt.


----------



## Dobrescu George

paulus xii said:


> Can I just turn it on for 1 hour or so, or it has to be playing something? Would like to check that.
> 
> This amp still amazes me everyday. The sinergy with the Westone W40 is astonishing. Impressive treble and separation. What a money well spent without a doubt.


 
 it has to play music for op-amp to be warm, and current must pass through it. 
  
 if you let it on, but do not play music, the op-amp does not use current, and it does not warm as it should.


----------



## Dobrescu George

nmatheis said:


> @mdiogofs: I can see where you'd feel like you're missing some high end transitioning from a SABRE amp/DAC to an E12A. I've got an iBasso DX90 (SABRE), and it's got aggressive highs. Some really like this. Others find it too piercing and prefer smoother highs like you get with the E12A or X5.
> 
> It's funny that people have commented on X5's piercing highs compared to X3. They need to experience a SABRE DAC and really get their ears cleaned out


 
 you made me curious about the sabre treble.
  
 unfortunatelly, no player that uses a sabre dac is not fit for me, as they usually have only one microsd slot. 
  
 fiio x7 is going to use a sabre DAC, i am very curious to hear it.


----------



## mdiogofs

I don't have the DX90. I'm just taking an teorethical aproximation because I have the same DAC that is used in the DX90. Actually, I was deciding about this kit I have or the DX90 to buy. But this kit I have is more versatile I think, USB plugs everywhere. But I believe DX90 is also a USB DAC since recent firmware release, or something like this.
  
 Chord Hudo is crazy expensive! I believe reading somewhere the X7 is having the actual "desktop" Sabre ES9018 and not the mobile version ES9018K2M that's on my HiFime and on the DX90.
  
 Yep @nmatheis I believe I'm taming the Sabre DAC treble with the E12A amplification part. As you are saying the amplication on DX90 is not so smooth so the treble "crunch" e agressiveness of the Sabre is there.


----------



## Paulus XII

dobrescu george said:


> it has to play music for op-amp to be warm, and current must pass through it.
> 
> if you let it on, but do not play music, the op-amp does not use current, and it does not warm as it should.


 
  
 Yes I can notice the difference. Very subtle but noticeable. Thanks for sharing this ; )


----------



## mdiogofs

paulus xii said:


> Yes I can notice the difference. Very subtle but noticeable. Thanks for sharing this ; )


 
 Yep! The sound become more addictive and immersive after a good warm. And I also can tell it pushes an hair into treble agressiveness  Making it in a "state" just before getting the treble harshness. Right on spot! Well, it's how it's supposed to work and now I understand why this amp.was very well received all around. A little jewel for the price asked.


----------



## Dobrescu George

mdiogofs said:


> Yep! The sound become more addictive and immersive after a good warm. And I also can tell it pushes an hair into treble agressiveness  Making it in a "state" just before getting the treble harshness. Right on spot! Well, it's how it's supposed to work and now I understand why this amp.was very well received all around. A little jewel for the price asked.


 
 i am happy that you like it in the final!


mdiogofs said:


> I don't have the DX90. I'm just taking an teorethical aproximation because I have the same DAC that is used in the DX90. Actually, I was deciding about this kit I have or the DX90 to buy. But this kit I have is more versatile I think, USB plugs everywhere. But I believe DX90 is also a USB DAC since recent firmware release, or something like this.
> 
> Chord Hudo is crazy expensive! I believe reading somewhere the X7 is having the actual "desktop" Sabre ES9018 and not the mobile version ES9018K2M that's on my HiFime and on the DX90.
> 
> Yep @nmatheis I believe I'm taming the Sabre DAC treble with the E12A amplification part. As you are saying the amplication on DX90 is not so smooth so the treble "crunch" e agressiveness of the Sabre is there.


 
 yes, you are right, the fiio x7 uses the desktop version, full power and capacity.
  
 i have very very high hopes for it. i decided not to buy chord hugo, because x7 is coming out, and i might like x7 better, at least considering price/performance ratio.
  
 if i were you, i would had gone with a fiio x5 in the begging, the most versatile solution, DAP, DAC, AMP, 2xmicrosdslots, not expensive, can drive about anything, and sound awesome!
  
 on the other hand it would cost 2x what you paid for your actual setup.


----------



## Skullbox

dobrescu george said:


> i am happy that you like it in the final!
> yes, you are right, the fiio x7 uses the desktop version, full power and capacity.
> 
> i have very very high hopes for it. i decided not to buy chord hugo, because x7 is coming out, and i might like x7 better, at least considering price/performance ratio.
> ...


 ... "FiiO mentioned sometime this summer for the X5 II release, and then the X7 release shortly after. No concrete dates or other details though.

I think X7 was planned for release before X5-2, but vaguely remember reading that the release schedule is changed now. As good as the current X5 is, I'm ready for Fiio to really knock my socks of with X5-2! "


----------



## mdiogofs

I delayed the buy of a good DAP to see what's coming next. I saw FiiO guys are working hard on the X7. There is also the new Cayin N6, that is improving firmware over time.
  
 Your're almost right, i could get the X5 for 380 Euro or the DX90 for 395 Euro in here with a free 64 GB card. But I spent about 260 Euro on this my "kit". It's not far from the X5 or DX90 cost, just a bit more than 100 Euro difference.
  
 But I'm very very happy with this sound and could study an aquisition of a great DAP untill the end of this year from what will be released untill then. Maybe X7 like you  I like this Sabre ES9018 type of sound.


----------



## Dobrescu George

mdiogofs said:


> I delayed the buy of a good DAP to see what's coming next. I saw FiiO guys are working hard on the X7. There is also the new Cayin N6, that is improving firmware over time.
> 
> Your're almost right, i could get the X5 for 380 Euro or the DX90 for 395 Euro in here with a free 64 GB card. But I spent about 260 Euro on this my "kit". It's not far from the X5 or DX90 cost, just a bit more than 100 Euro difference.
> 
> But I'm very very happy with this sound and could study an aquisition of a great DAP untill the end of this year from what will be released untill then. Maybe X7 like you  I like this Sabre ES9018 type of sound.


 
 i never heared one, but i belive you that it is a nice sound.
  
 thikning about it, you might want to get x5II, x7 is going to cost 700$, which will be a on a different level.
  
 your kit might not be far from x5, but it cannot work as a DAP, i choose x5 mainly because i listen to my music while walking too much to get something that cannot work while walking.


----------



## snellemin

I was jamming on "Ultra Dance 16" for a good hour with my E7 FIIO.  I switch back to the E12A and what a difference in sound.  The E12A is so much nicer sounding overall.  More punch, open, everything that has already been said about the amp.  The E12A does sound a bit better after it's been running for a while. I noticed it when I left the music playing, while away from my desk.  Upon return I noticed an improvement when repeating the same tracks I listen before hand.  In my case it was with the flac's from the Metallica black album.  Bass 305 tracks sounded a bit better too.


----------



## Skullbox

snellemin said:


> I was jamming on "Ultra Dance 16" for a good hour with my E7 FIIO.  I switch back to the E12A and what a difference in sound.  The E12A is so much nicer sounding overall.  More punch, open, everything that has already been said about the amp.  The E12A does sound a bit better after it's been running for a while. I noticed it when I left the music playing, while away from my desk.  Upon return I noticed an improvement when repeating the same tracks I listen before hand.  In my case it was with the flac's from the Metallica black album.  Bass 305 tracks sounded a bit better too.


 Happy to hear your welcome comments about my next buy! E12A I was hesitate between this one and the E17K DAC.... So, E12A need to be warming / burning overnight to throw all his fire?!! Cool to hear this soon!!
Until then, still waiting for the X3 II to be release soon! ...


----------



## snellemin

skullbox said:


> Happy to hear your welcome comments about my next buy! E12A I was hesitate between this one and the E17K DAC.... So, E12A need to be warming / burning overnight to throw all his fire?!! Cool to hear this soon!!
> Until then, still waiting for the X3 II to be release soon! ...


 
  
 The E12A sounds good out of the box.  Mine stays on for hours at a time and this is the only way I noticed a difference in the sound signature and only with certain music.  My ears are not as good anymore, so I don't know how much I'm really missing now.  
  
 My amp sits on top of a portable drive that does get warm.  Enough heat is radiated to warm up the E12A.


----------



## mdiogofs

X3 II is already out. 
E12A needs to get warmer inside, not outside. Outside is always cold because of the aluminium and the inside hotness isn't felt from outside. I believe no more than half an hour of warming is sufficient.


----------



## Skullbox

mdiogofs said:


> X3 II is already out.
> E12A needs to get warmer inside, not outside. Outside is always cold because of the aluminium and the inside hotness isn't felt from outside. I believe no more than half an hour of warming is sufficient.



Great, I will see by myself in some future when I first get my X3 II  I know, these X3 II & E12A are a good match kit!


----------



## DeeKay10

At the rate at which this thread is advancing I wouldn't put it beyond people to soon be recommending a 2-minute microwave warm-up of their E12As before listening to it... I think comments are going a bit overboard on the last two dozen pages on how it's such an amazing product never seen since the invention of the light bulb. It's a headphone amplifier - it takes some current and outputs some nicer-sounding current, definitely won't fix your food processor or improve your sex life.
 Sure it's a good deal for the price, but a lot of audio products are these days.
  
 On the subject of evaluation, I don't think it's right comparing it to other Fiio products (X5 in particular, having a shrieking abomination for an amp, for IEMs in particular), and it obviously improves a lot plugged in to them, being a stand-alone unit. Comparison to similar amps at the same price range (~$160-180), as was done early in this thread, would be nice instead.
 About literally warming it up, that's preposterous. I don't hear any difference that might not be psychological (expecting a different sound) and I'm sure as hell not going to start schedule when I'm listening to music.


----------



## Dobrescu George

deekay10 said:


> At the rate at which this thread is advancing I wouldn't put it beyond people to soon be recommending a 2-minute microwave warm-up of their E12As before listening to it... I think comments are going a bit overboard on the last two dozen pages on how it's such an amazing product never seen since the invention of the light bulb. It's a headphone amplifier - it takes some current and outputs some nicer-sounding current, definitely won't fix your food processor or improve your sex life.
> Sure it's a good deal for the price, but a lot of audio products are these days.
> 
> On the subject of evaluation, I don't think it's right comparing it to other Fiio products (X5 in particular, having a shrieking abomination for an amp, for IEMs in particular), and it obviously improves a lot plugged in to them, being a stand-alone unit. Comparison to similar amps at the same price range (~$160-180), as was done early in this thread, would be nice instead.
> About literally warming it up, that's preposterous. I don't hear any difference that might not be psychological (expecting a different sound) and I'm sure as hell not going to start schedule when I'm listening to music.


 
 do not use it first 30 minutes while it is playing music. 
  
 when you will listen to it, you should hear music slightly better.
  
 warming of muses op-amps is a fact known for all devices using them, not mind tricks.
  
 also, i love amp on x5, you are far from thruth, the device is awesome as it is, it is totally fine comparing e12a to everything else, no matter the price.
  
 i really wonder how it fares against the amp section in ifi idsd or in hugo...


----------



## snellemin

I got to mess around with the Oppo PM-2 and the E12A today.  This little amp amazes me on the sound quality and volume.  It made the headphones vibrate around my ears, without distortion.  Gain up, bass on and max volume.  Source came through my D7 IBasso.  Music ranged from Bass 305, Metallica, KMFDM.


----------



## Dobrescu George

snellemin said:


> I got to mess around with the Oppo PM-2 and the E12A today.  This little amp amazes me on the sound quality and volume.  It made the headphones vibrate around my ears, without distortion.  Gain up, bass on and max volume.  Source came through my D7 IBasso.  Music ranged from Bass 305, Metallica, KMFDM.


 
 metallica?
  
 i really should test it for longer.
  
 with my ultrasone dj one pro and fiio x5 metallica gets lots of distortions...
  
 i do not know how the headphones you have sound like, maybe they are not enough resolving for you to hear the distortion, like some kind of static or clipping...


----------



## nmatheis

Yeah, but you're using dynamic HP vs. the planar Oppo HP. I'm betting the planar's need and can handle the juice.


----------



## snellemin

My EQ settings were only increased on the opposite ends in Foobar.  My Sony HP can't produce level of sub-bass the planar's produced.  My D7 can't produce the SPL the E12A can produce either.  I like the D7 sound signature, simply because it reminds me of my old school Luxman C12 preamp.  To me the E12A compliments D7 very well and it's my preferred setup at work.


----------



## Dobrescu George

i think that this had not been discussed, but had anyone tried double abx testing between the amp in fiio x5 and the one in e12a? i was kind of curious what would happen, even if we are not in sound science forums.


----------



## Tobias89

Anyone did a comparison vs oppo HA2 amp only?


----------



## White Lotus

I don't have any issues with the in-built amp of the X5, am I missing something? 
  
 I still prefer the E12A, but that's just personal preference.


----------



## Dobrescu George

i am home from testing e12a, ifi idsd, chord hugo. i cannot say anything anymore than that i buyed e12a. it is extremely underrated.
  
 for everyone, it has very very much power, it will power anything under 300ohm, with ease. it can do it's way with he-560. do not take my word for it, test it.
  
 when i thought that it does not have enough power for hd650, i was thinking wrong. pure power is not what is needed, even if it has less power than e12, it manages to sound/better.
  
 what do i call better? the sound that comes closest to the ideal, live experience. chord hugo is at the moment the best device in the world, no matter the price at this. an x5+e12a stack is closer to hugo than i expected. extremely clear and precise, so nice separation and soundstage. It can make headphones without soundstage have one, and define the soundstage of headphones that already have big soundstage.
  
 i really advice everyone who wants to have an ultimate experience to try e12a.


----------



## Tuneslover

dobrescu george said:


> it cannot drive either of them...
> 
> i really do not understand why would anyone ever try a very very very great amp for iems with full headphones.
> 
> it really was made for driving iems, it has the same amount of power as x5, so it drives almost fine what fiio x5 can drive. and as far as i know x5 cannot drive hd650 to full potential. it does not like like it can he500 either. your dt on the other hand, should reallt sound better,


 
 See POST #481:  Interesting "about face" in your opinion now Mr. skerry2006aj.


----------



## Dobrescu George

tuneslover said:


> See POST #481:  Interesting "about face" in your opinion now Mr. skerry2006aj.


 
 I am completley sorry for that post. after testing again, with much more time, and against hugo and idsd, e12a has the same driving power as hugo, and if you ask me, the tonality and sound is similar.
 there is a difference in transients, but it is very similar. I am extremely shocked by how wrong i was. In fact, i preffered the sound of e12 over most amps. I had not had time to test it with hd800, but i am sure that it does a wonderfull job. it has the same power as hugo has, so it should drive them to a certain nice level. I would still recomend more power for hd800, but this e12a is universally the best portable amp i had ever heared in my entire life.
  
 E12a is a really beautifull product, and i am sorry for considering that it was not powerfull enough. i know now that it is powerfull enough to drive anything that is uner or 300 ohm.


----------



## Tuneslover

dobrescu george said:


> I am completley sorry for that post. after testing again, with much more time, and against hugo and idsd, e12a has the same driving power as hugo, and if you ask me, the tonality and sound is similar.
> there is a difference in transients, but it is very similar. I am extremely shocked by how wrong i was. In fact, i preffered the sound of e12 over most amps. I had not had time to test it with hd800, but i am sure that it does a wonderfull job. it has the same power as hugo has, so it should drive them to a certain nice level. I would still recomend more power for hd800, but this e12a is universally the best portable amp i had ever heared in my entire life.
> 
> E12a is a really beautifull product, and i am sorry for considering that it was not powerfull enough. i know now that it is powerfull enough to drive anything that is uner or 300 ohm.


 
 Indeed this is a very fine portable amp.  I am extremely impressed with how my E12a sounds with both my HE500's and HD650's.  Naturally HIGH gain is a necessity.  I have to say that I actually prefer the HE500's with the E12a (with Bass Boost on) over my beloved Lake People G109S amp.  The E12a is used pretty much exclusively as my on-the-go amp with my portable Westone IEM's and Beyer DT1350's all of which sound spectacular.


----------



## mdiogofs

yes, most of IEMs on it won't pass the half volume mark at low gain. Even Havi B3 Pro 1 won't pass that mark. So, there's a "gain and a half" to use on more power ungry stuff.
  
 E12A has a bit of "nasal" sound. Guess it should be the MUSES02...It's a very peculiar and unique sound. But I actually like it very much!


----------



## Dobrescu George

mdiogofs said:


> yes, most of IEMs on it won't pass the half volume mark at low gain. Even Havi B3 Pro 1 won't pass that mark. So, there's a "gain and a half" to use on more power ungry stuff.
> 
> E12A has a bit of "nasal" sound. Guess it should be the MUSES02...It's a very peculiar and unique sound. But I actually like it very much!


 
 with my dj one pro, i cannot pass half on low gain, it is rated 64ohm...
  
 That amazing sound!
  
 Now, only if i could fiind a way to stop my equipemnt from clipping, static-radio-between-stations like on albums that have lots of clipping, like metallica-death magnetic.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Is anyone getting a higher level of distortions because of using e12a while charging?


----------



## mdiogofs

you better not using it while charging. Sound must probably be cleaner but most important you save more the battery health.


----------



## riodgarp

talking about charging, which one is better way to charge this amp?


----------



## bavinck

riodgarp said:


> talking about charging, which one is better way to charge this amp?


 
 Plug it in lol


----------



## riodgarp

into usb computer or desktop wall charger?


----------



## bavinck

riodgarp said:


> into usb computer or desktop wall charger?


 
 Both would work, though I would expect the wall charger to be quicker.


----------



## Shawn71

riodgarp said:


> talking about charging, which one is better way to charge this amp?


 

 USB Wall charger, ex: 3A.....


----------



## Dobrescu George

Has anybody asked fiio about playing while charging, and if the amp is going to last better if used while charging, or it is better to charge and discharge while using?


----------



## mdiogofs

dobrescu george said:


> Has anybody asked fiio about playing while charging, and if the amp is going to last better if used while charging, or* it is better to charge and discharge while using*?


 
 It's written in the "instructions" paper with various languages that comes inside the box of E12A.


----------



## Dobrescu George

mdiogofs said:


> It's written in the "instructions" paper with various languages that comes inside the box of E12A.


 
 in the manual it is written "please turn off before charging"
  
 so i am supposed to not use it while it is charging.
  
  
  
  
 How do all of you carry a stack with e12a around? I fiind it very hard to carry a stack around, it pushes buttons on my x5.
  
 I have no ideea how to carry it the right way.


----------



## KLJTech

dobrescu george said:


> in the manual it is written "please turn off before charging"
> 
> so i am supposed to not use it while it is charging.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What I have found to work best for me is to bring your X5 and E12 or E12A with the stacking kit to Best Buy (or a similar type store) and look for the smallest camera bag that will hold the DAP and amp and make sure that it has a loop on the back for our belt. Look for the bag to have two zippers for the main compartment that you'll carry the DAP and amp in, this way you can unzip just the top to have access to the headphone output and the volume control on the amp. Amazon has a ton of bags like this, but you may have to try a few before you find the one that works best for you. 
  
 I recently bought this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DUGZEWK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1   (I remove the shoulder strap)
  
 The size of the bag is perfect, BUT I didn't realize that it only had one zipper which means that once you open the bag to plug in your headphones the top and side of the bag are left unzipped (the zipper doesn't go all the way down the side which is good). I doubt that the opening is big enough for the stack to fall out, but it would be better if the compartment had two zippers for a smaller opening only at the top. At this point, I have a few bags that I use and carrying the smallish bag (outside measurements of 5.75" X 4" and 2" deep) on or near my hip has worked great. It's easy to lift the gear out if needed, easy to make adjustments while in the bag and most of these types of camera bags also have room to store your IEM's. I've read that at times these type of bags vary in size just a bit so it's always best if you can try one in person.
  
 I'm sure that there are other ways to carry your stack, but I prefer this way as I'm not running the risk of sitting on the gear or putting too much pressure on it and thus far its worked great for me.


----------



## bavinck

dobrescu george said:


> Has anybody asked fiio about playing while charging, and if the amp is going to last better if used while charging, or it is better to charge and discharge while using?



I would think the bigger concern would be noise from charging while playing. I am sure the sq will be best when running off the battery. Besides, it's a great portable amp, charging it makes it an OK desktop amp


----------



## tuatara

kljtech said:


> What I have found to work best for me is to bring your X5 and E12 or E12A with the stacking kit to Best Buy (or a similar type store) and look for the smallest camera bag that will hold the DAP and amp and make sure that it has a loop on the back for our belt. Look for the bag to have two zippers for the main compartment that you'll carry the DAP and amp in, this way you can unzip just the top to have access to the headphone output and the volume control on the amp. Amazon has a ton of bags like this, but you may have to try a few before you find the one that works best for you.
> 
> I recently bought this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DUGZEWK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1   (I remove the shoulder strap)
> 
> ...


 
 Great tip-thanks. Waiting for my amp to arrive to pair with my X3 and either the RE-600s or PM-3.


----------



## Dobrescu George

bavinck said:


> I would think the bigger concern would be noise from charging while playing. I am sure the sq will be best when running off the battery. Besides, it's a great portable amp, charging it makes it an OK desktop amp


 
 I cannot use it portable yet, so i am using it only desktop, and it is the finest desktop amp i could get my hands for this price.
  
 i cannot use it portable because i am yet to buy something to keep it in, how it is right now, i cannot keep it in the jacket pocket.
  
 i had zero noise when using while charging, but i am the type that has zero bias thinking about sound, and if something is not audible i do not hear it.
  
 E12a improoves sound a LOT, not a little, and i can clearly hear it, but i can hear zero noise when using while charging, but if the manual states that it is better not used while charging, i am fine this way too.
  
 i am still trying to fiind a good thing to carry it in, around where i live, as i cannot buy anything from outside.


----------



## Paulus XII

Yes, it does improve sound ALOT at least from sources like the X3 1st gen. Will see for 2nd gen when I decide to get one.


----------



## Paulus XII

OWNERS OF X5:
  
 What does the E12A brings to the X5? Is it worth it?


----------



## bavinck

paulus xii said:


> OWNERS OF X5:
> 
> What does the E12A brings to the X5? Is it worth it?




Tightens up the bass just a smidge imo. It is not enough to justify the cost and doubling the size of the x5 though, imo. The pro50 fixed everything I was missing in the bass dept with the x5/w40, maybe consider that change.


----------



## KLJTech

paulus xii said:


> OWNERS OF X5:
> 
> What does the E12A brings to the X5? Is it worth it?


 
  
 I've been listening to the X5 for almost a month now by itself and plan to add the E12A to it this afternoon to see if it improves things or not...we'll see. I'm sure opinions will vary.


----------



## hakushondaimao

paulus xii said:


> OWNERS OF X5:
> 
> What does the E12A brings to the X5? Is it worth it?




Didn't find a huge benefit using the E12A with the X3ii during review listening, other than bass (with boost on) and slightly wider soundstage. Difference wasn't great enough to make me want to drag a stack about for portable use, though I will stack at home.

Imagine the difference will be more pronounced with X3ii and more power-hungry phones, and that the above will be true for the X5 as well.


----------



## Dobrescu George

paulus xii said:


> OWNERS OF X5:
> 
> What does the E12A brings to the X5? Is it worth it?


 
 e12a has a similar DNA to sennheiser hd800. it creates a very black background, add a lot of soundstage... and a little of something else, but this is the most important aspect. also, it is 100% noise free, so without all the background noise, you can listen at very low volumes and enjoy... 
  
 personally i liked x5+e12a better than ifi idsd... and it was very very close to chord hugo Sound signature in general, but hugo was a little better still.


----------



## Paulus XII

Thanks guys, very helpful. I was thinking of selling the E12A before the upgrade, but it will maybe better to test it first. With the X3 first gen I like the bass boost and the soundstage. Of course that are many other things it improves (alot) with the X3, but seems that X3 2nd gen and X5 are a different story.


----------



## nmatheis

Paulus XII: My take on this is that you do get some benefit from the E12A but not enough to warrant a stack while on the go. However once you're stationary, why not use the E12A and get that little something extra?


----------



## hakushondaimao

paulus xii said:


> Thanks guys, very helpful. I was thinking of selling the E12A before the upgrade, but it will maybe better to test it first. With the X3 first gen I like the bass boost and the soundstage. Of course that are many other things it improves (alot) with the X3, but seems that X3 2nd gen and X5 are a different story.


 

 I'm keeping my E12A, and will certainly be using it for home use with the X3. The thing I appreciate about the new X3 is the flexibility to go without an amp; that doesn't mean I'll go completely amp-less.


----------



## mdiogofs

@hakushondaimao Just realized you have the Picollo. Is it much better than the E12A to justify the price tag? How do they compare? What do you use the Picollo with?


----------



## hakushondaimao

mdiogofs said:


> @hakushondaimao Just realized you have the Picollo. Is it much better than the E12A to justify the price tag? How do they compare? What do you use the Picollo with?


 

 Picollo's a bit warmer sounding than the E12A, and doesn't have bass boost. Both are excellent with IEMs. I mix and match the two, and don't necessarily "prefer" either. To me the Piccolo is a bit more friendly as a portable as it's less slab-like (my DAPs - iPod Mini and X3ii - are pretty tiny). I only got the Piccolo fairly recently through Massdrop, so the expense was easier easy to justify.


----------



## Mcgeggy

Can anyone say if the E12a would match well with Sony A17 dap? This dap has no line out, except for the USB port which I believe will work with Fiio L5 cable.

My previous dap was the little Xduuo X2, which sounded great and volume was good, but my eyes could not focus on the display. So I bought the A17 and like everything about it except it does not get loud enough. It even has Bluetooth which is great for listening through my car stereo (Ford Sync). I almost bought ibasso DX-100, but heard bad things about the UI and it was a lot more expensive.

I listen to flac metal (like In Flames, Godflesh, Mercenary, Disarmonia Mundi), and occasionally like to turn certain songs up very loud for short periods.

Or if anyone could recommend another amp in this price range, or even a different dap (with decent display and great SQ for the type of music I listen to).

I listen mostly to the first 3 iems in my sig, and I also just ordered T-peos Altone 200. Of course, there are probably additional higher end iems in my future too...

Thanks!


----------



## Dobrescu George

mcgeggy said:


> Can anyone say if the E12a would match well with Sony A17 dap? This dap has no line out, except for the USB port which I believe will work with Fiio L5 cable.
> 
> My previous dap was the little Xduuo X2, which sounded great and volume was good, but my eyes could not focus on the display. So I bought the A17 and like everything about it except it does not get loud enough. It even has Bluetooth which is great for listening through my car stereo (Ford Sync). I almost bought ibasso DX-100, but heard bad things about the UI and it was a lot more expensive.
> 
> ...


 
 i would totally recommend e12a, if it can work with the line out. 
  
 If you connect it to a headphone out, it sounds a little muffled.
  
 I would strongly advice for a fiio x3II+e12a. It is a heaven for sound, and you get most of SQ that is possible.
  
 I use a fiio x5+e12a, and consider x3II a very very nice substitute for x5, if you want to spend less.
  
  
  
 This amp is extremely under-rated by most people, and it is a pity, it sounds worlds of a difference from any other amp, it is in a class of it's own.


----------



## Mcgeggy

dobrescu george said:


> i would totally recommend e12a, if it can work with the line out.
> 
> If you connect it to a headphone out, it sounds a little muffled.
> 
> ...




So the 2nd generation X3, that now has the scroll wheel? Maybe that by itself would have better SQ than the A17? Although I do like the internal 64 gb storage and Bluetooth of the A17... 

Thanks for the quick reply!


----------



## nmatheis

[@]skerry2006aj[/@]: Mcgeggy already has the A17 and (correct me if I'm wrong here Mcgeggy) isn't looking to upgrade his DAP at the moment. 

Mcgeggy: As skerry mentioned, it's hard to go wrong with the E12A. What Fiio did was release the E12 DIY, where the end user can swap out the buffer and opamp to identify their preferred sound signature and learn how the various components alter the sound. I bought one, and it's another really nice amp. 

Anyhoo, there's a dedicated thread for the E12 DIY. Fiio watched that thread (and I'm assuming their customers in China) and noticed that a lot of people really liked the MUSES opamps and decided to go with the MUSES02, which is not a cheap component. There's another similar MUSES opamp they could've used for half the price, but Fiio didn't cheap out and used the real deal!


----------



## nmatheis

Forgot to mention, I think this will be a nice comment to your setup for another reason Mcgeggy. 

Sony is known for leaner, more transparent sound. This could emphasize the high end on your Altones. 

The E12A is known for a smooth high end (but not lacking in details). This would help tame the high end on your Altones. 

With this combo, you should have a nice lean combo with A17 -> Altone and a richer / warmer combo with A17 -> E12A -> Altones. 

And since it should be a leaner sounding DAP, I wouldn't worry too much about double amping with the A17 .


----------



## Mcgeggy

nmatheis said:


> Forgot to mention, I think this will be a nice comment to your setup for another reason Mcgeggy.
> 
> Sony is known for leaner, more transparent sound. This could emphasize the high end on your Altones.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the guidance! I'm not entirely opposed to exchanging the A17 for a different dap. But I thought maybe I should try amping it first.

So, just to make sure I understand, if I went with the E12a, I could use the headphone out into the E12a and it might not be that bad (double amping). But if I used the fiio L5 connection, it would be better. The E12a is an amp only (no dac), correct?

I also think the E12a would sit well under the A17 and not be too clunky. 

I had been looking at other amp/amp dacs, like the Cayin C5, Leckerton UHA-6S.MKII or UHA-4, iBasso D-Zero MK2, and even the Topping NX1.

But I like that the E12a is designed for iems, which is mostly what I listen to. Although in the near future I would like to start checking out some full size portable headphones too...

Thanks!


----------



## nmatheis

HO would probably be ok, but of course using the LOD would be better 

Out of the amps you mentioned, I've owned E12A and Cayin C5. I still own the E12A. The C5 was very hard for me to use with IEM due to low gain being too powerful. It was blasting out my ears with hardly any movement on the volume pot. And I found the C5's bass boost was too broad spectrum, warming up the sound instead of just boosting lower bass. Not for me, but plenty of people rave about the C5. 

E12A is fine with a lot of full size HP - especially those you'd be most likely to use on the go. If you're trying to drive monsters, you'll probably be stationary and can go for a more suitable desktop amp.


----------



## bzippy

dobrescu george said:


> i would totally recommend e12a, if it can work with the line out.
> 
> If you connect it to a headphone out, it sounds a little muffled.
> 
> ...


 

 i concur. i use an X3 LO into E12 for use with my HD600's.  i also use the LO into my home stereo, car stereo, & bedroom stereo. in every case i find that bypassing the X3 amp sounds better than the HO. i imagine i would have the same opinion with the X3ii, X5, and virutally any DAP in the more affordable price range, even though i haven't heard any of these others in person. i don't say this out of prejudice, but based on the practical reality that an external amp will just about always be somewhat better than a small DAP's internal amp. i actually started a thread asking whether people here think that ANY DAP can compete with a decent external amp but i didn't get very many responses. perhaps there are some high dollar exceptions, but since i don't plan to ever spend $1000+ on a DAP then i feel pretty confident that i'm not wasting my effort in carrying my stack around.
  
 i will add that i have a sneaking suspicion that the difference between most DAPs significantly narrows when you use them all line out, at least from a SQ perspective. and in that case cost, features and UI are perhaps the only real consideration when choosing a among them. but again this is pure speculation. i'd be interested to hear from folks more experienced than i am about this hypothesis.


----------



## Mcgeggy

nmatheis said:


> HO would probably be ok, but of course using the LOD would be better
> 
> Out of the amps you mentioned, I've owned E12A and Cayin C5. I still own the E12A. The C5 was very hard for me to use with IEM due to low gain being too powerful. It was blasting out my ears with hardly any movement on the volume pot. And I found the C5's bass boost was too broad spectrum, warming up the sound instead of just boosting lower bass. Not for me, but plenty of people rave about the C5.
> 
> E12A is fine with a lot of full size HP - especially those you'd be most likely to use on the go. If you're trying to drive monsters, you'll probably be stationary and can go for a more suitable desktop amp.




Sounds good, the E12a seems to be the one to try first!


----------



## hakushondaimao

mcgeggy said:


> Sounds good, the E12a seems to be the one to try first!


 
  
 It really is a great amp, and the price is right.


----------



## Mcgeggy

bzippy said:


> i concur. i use an X3 LO into E12 for use with my HD600's.  i also use the LO into my home stereo, car stereo, & bedroom stereo. in every case i find that bypassing the X3 amp sounds better than the HO. i imagine i would have the same opinion with the X3ii, X5, and virutally any DAP in the more affordable price range, even though i haven't heard any of these others in person. i don't say this out of prejudice, but based on the practical reality that an external amp will just about always be somewhat better than a small DAP's internal amp. i actually started a thread asking whether people here think that ANY DAP can compete with a decent external amp but i didn't get very many responses. perhaps there are some high dollar exceptions, but since i don't plan to ever spend $1000+ on a DAP then i feel pretty confident that i'm not wasting my effort in carrying my stack around.
> 
> i will add that i have a sneaking suspicion that the difference between most DAPs significantly narrows when you use them all line out, at least from a SQ perspective. and in that case cost, features and UI are perhaps the only real consideration when choosing a among them. but again this is pure speculation. i'd be interested to hear from folks more experienced than i am about this hypothesis.




It seemed to me that the ibasso DX-100 was considered to be very good w/o needing an separate amp, at least in so far as the range of phones it was able to cleanly drive. I came very close to grabbing one here on the classifieds before deciding on the A17.

I also was under the impression that the type of dac also had a big impact on sound quality along with the amp?


----------



## Dobrescu George

bzippy said:


> i concur. i use an X3 LO into E12 for use with my HD600's.  i also use the LO into my home stereo, car stereo, & bedroom stereo. in every case i find that bypassing the X3 amp sounds better than the HO. i imagine i would have the same opinion with the X3ii, X5, and virutally any DAP in the more affordable price range, even though i haven't heard any of these others in person. i don't say this out of prejudice, but based on the practical reality that an external amp will just about always be somewhat better than a small DAP's internal amp. i actually started a thread asking whether people here think that ANY DAP can compete with a decent external amp but i didn't get very many responses. perhaps there are some high dollar exceptions, but since i don't plan to ever spend $1000+ on a DAP then i feel pretty confident that i'm not wasting my effort in carrying my stack around.
> 
> i will add that i have a sneaking suspicion that the difference between most DAPs significantly narrows when you use them all line out, at least from a SQ perspective. and in that case cost, features and UI are perhaps the only real consideration when choosing a among them. but again this is pure speculation. i'd be interested to hear from folks more experienced than i am about this hypothesis.


 
 there certainly is ak240, but i highly doubt that it sounds better alone than a x5+e12a stack. when comparing, i compared x5+e12a stack to ifi idsd and chord hugo. i considered x5+e12a extremley close to hugo.
  
 It is totally worth carrying a stack.
  
  


mcgeggy said:


> It seemed to me that the ibasso DX-100 was considered to be very good w/o needing an separate amp, at least in so far as the range of phones it was able to cleanly drive. I came very close to grabbing one here on the classifieds before deciding on the A17.
> 
> I also was under the impression that the type of dac also had a big impact on sound quality along with the amp?


 
 both the DAC and the AMP have an impact on the sound. The weakest link in the chain brings the entire chain down.
  
  


mcgeggy said:


> Thanks for the guidance! I'm not entirely opposed to exchanging the A17 for a different dap. But I thought maybe I should try amping it first.
> 
> So, just to make sure I understand, if I went with the E12a, I could use the headphone out into the E12a and it might not be that bad (double amping). But if I used the fiio L5 connection, it would be better. The E12a is an amp only (no dac), correct?
> 
> ...


 
 i would like to repead this, but using headphone out instead of line out degrades the sound by quite a margin. With x5, at least, preffered using line out by a margin to headphone out to e12a.
  
  


mcgeggy said:


> So the 2nd generation X3, that now has the scroll wheel? Maybe that by itself would have better SQ than the A17? Although I do like the internal 64 gb storage and Bluetooth of the A17...
> 
> Thanks for the quick reply!


  
 the second generation of x3, is not e12a. the sound is very different, i think that your a17+e12a will be the better option. x3II is great for changing your a17, because it has a line out, but you might also like a17 better, i have no ideea how it sounds. 
  
 just technically it could be better because it has a line out, but you might like a17 better. i recommend to test it before.
  
  
  
  
  

 i think that i am going to review e12a in depth, this is how much i really like it! I already did so in romanian for the store from which i had bought it.


----------



## bavinck

Skerry, have you tried a silver interconnect cable for x5 to e12a? I have heard it is very nice, I should have one coming soon.


----------



## Dobrescu George

bavinck said:


> Skerry, have you tried a silver interconnect cable for x5 to e12a? I have heard it is very nice, I should have one coming soon.


 
 i am not sure. i tried fiio interconnects, i will buy one as soon as it will be alavaible again.
 the SQ was the same in my experience, but i do not trust the original one to take a beating.
 Also, i like the straight one much better. the L shaped one is very akward for keeping in pocket. I have this thing, even within a case, the straight one could fit better than the L shaped one.
 I will see after i buy something to hold my stack in. i might use the advice of buying a photo camera carry thing, then i will see if i would like the L shaped fiio interconnect better.
  
 In my experience, as i have normal headphone cables, and not the headphones i want, i do not think that an interconnect is the right place to invest money. when testing i could not hear a difference between interconnects, but, again, for me hugo and x5+e12a sounded very close, at least in frequency response, so i might not be that sensitive to these type of details. e12a sounded like a big improvement from x5 though.


----------



## bavinck

Have you tested a silver (material) interconnect? I don't think fiio makes one....


----------



## bavinck

Out of curiosity, how many of you use the bass boost feature on the e12a regularly?


----------



## Mcgeggy

dobrescu george said:


> there certainly is ak240, but i highly doubt that it sounds better alone than a x5+e12a stack. when comparing, i compared x5+e12a stack to ifi idsd and chord hugo. i considered x5+e12a extremley close to hugo.
> 
> It is totally worth carrying a stack.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks, this helps clarify for me!


----------



## Dobrescu George

bavinck said:


> Out of curiosity, how many of you use the bass boost feature on the e12a regularly?


 
 i use it regulary, with ultrasone dj one pro and sennheiser ie8.This is very ironic, i use EQ on x5 to lower the bass with ie8, making 125hz go at -6DB, but use the bass bots on e12a.
  
  


bavinck said:


> Have you tested a silver (material) interconnect? I don't think fiio makes one....


 
 sorry, i did not. I do not think that there are any interconnects besists fiio ones that i can test in person.
  
  
  


mcgeggy said:


> Thanks, this helps clarify for me!


 
 i am very happy if i can help!


----------



## Mr Trev

bavinck said:


> Out of curiosity, how many of you use the bass boost feature on the e12a regularly?


 
 I find the bass boost helps my grado out nicely. However I don't use it with my iems or other phones.


----------



## Paulus XII

bavinck said:


> Out of curiosity, how many of you use the bass boost feature on the e12a regularly?


 
  
 I do.


----------



## nmatheis

bavinck said:


> Out of curiosity, how many of you use the bass boost feature on the e12a regularly?




Yes, I leave it on most of the time. It's a nice boost in low bass which doesn't impact upper bass or mids, so I find it complements a lot of IEM very well. 

[@]skerry2006aj[/@]: I believe Mcgeggy indicated that the A17 does have LO via a proprietary Sony Line Out Dock cable, so he won't have to double amp as long as he buys the LOD cable.


----------



## Dobrescu George

nmatheis said:


> Yes, I leave it on most of the time. It's a nice boost in low bass which doesn't impact upper bass or mids, so I find it complements a lot of IEM very well.
> 
> @skerry2006aj: I believe @Mcgeggy indicated that the A17 does have LO via a proprietary Sony Line Out Dock cable, so he won't have to double amp as long as he buys the LOD cable.


 
 sorry, i had not caught that bit, then it is even better, as e12a can improove his a17.


----------



## Mcgeggy

nmatheis said:


> @skerry2006aj: I believe @Mcgeggy indicated that the A17 does have LO via a proprietary Sony Line Out Dock cable, so he won't have to double amp as long as he buys the LOD cable.


 
  
 See, I'm not sure which cable I need as I've seen two mentioned in relation to the A17. I was hoping that the FiiO L5 Line Out Dock (LOD) Cable For Sony Walkman would be all that is needed to connect from A17 usb port to E12a.
  
 But I've also come across the more expensive Sony WMC-NWH10 USB Conversion Cable for Hi Res Audio Output. But the Sony cable sounds like it is to maintain hi-res output, which I don't need since I listen to flac 16/44. Does that make sense?


----------



## nmatheis

Sounds like Fiio's LOD is fine if you just need to maintain 16/44. Is there a big price difference between the two LODs?


----------



## Mcgeggy

nmatheis said:


> Sounds like Fiio's LOD is fine if you just need to maintain 16/44. Is there a big price difference between the two LODs?


 

 The Fiio L5 is *$10* shipped
 The Sony WMC-NWH10 USB Conversion Cable is* $43* shipped!


----------



## nmatheis

Fiio all the way, baby!!!


----------



## Mcgeggy

I was going to order the E12a from Amazon for $159 shipped, but I found a place online called www.acgears.com that has it for the same price, but also gave me a coupon code for 5% off ($7.95). Woo-hoo!


----------



## White Lotus

bavinck said:


> Out of curiosity, how many of you use the bass boost feature on the e12a regularly?


 
  
 I never turn it off.


----------



## snellemin

I enable the bass boost depending on what I listen too, as in headphone, IEM, laptop, or Iphone.  Like yesterday I was messing around with a HD650 and the bass boost was just too much for that headphone at loud volumes. I had the drivers reaching it's limit with the FIIO.  That headphone sounds really nice with the E12A, and can even vibrate your skull a bit.  But when it came to sub-bass heavy material, the Oppo PM-2 is still the beast with the E12A with the bass boost on.  The Monster Turbines sound really nice with the bass boost on, when jammin' on Yellow Claw and TWRK.  Using the BBE app on my Iphone for that.
  

  
  
  
  
 The bass boost is always on with my old Koss ProDJ100.


----------



## bzippy

mcgeggy said:


> I also was under the impression that the type of dac also had a big impact on sound quality along with the amp?


 
  
 well i am kinda questioning whether the DAC has a 'big' impact, after a certain point. yeah, maybe all the i-Whatevers don't have the greatest DAC and you'll notice a difference, but once you get into something like the FiiO and iBasso products it might not matter enough to worry about. for example, is the X1's DAC noticeably inferior to the X5's? and if both were sent (via line out) through the same decent external amp could you hear any difference? that's what i'm dubious about.
  
 in all this searching i keep coming back to the conclusion that headphones are far and away the most important component to sound quality (assuming basically good source material), and most everything else represents rather minor improvements/differences, if they're noticeable at all. with the possible exception of amplification, since the internal amp in my X3 sounds pretty different from my E12 -- but still nothing like the difference you hear when changing headphones.


----------



## Dobrescu George

bzippy said:


> well i am kinda questioning whether the DAC has a 'big' impact, after a certain point. yeah, maybe all the i-Whatevers don't have the greatest DAC and you'll notice a difference, but once you get into something like the FiiO and iBasso products it might not matter enough to worry about. for example, is the X1's DAC noticeably inferior to the X5's? and if both were sent (via line out) through the same decent external amp could you hear any difference? that's what i'm dubious about.
> 
> in all this searching i keep coming back to the conclusion that headphones are far and away the most important component to sound quality (assuming basically good source material), and most everything else represents rather minor improvements/differences, if they're noticeable at all. with the possible exception of amplification, since the internal amp in my X3 sounds pretty different from my E12 -- but still nothing like the difference you hear when changing headphones.


 
 i had come to like only very few headphones, si basically i am searching to flavour the ones i like, this is why amps and DACs are a nice thing to have around.
  
 I agree with you, first invest in headphones, then in something else.
  
 About DACs, i will test much deeper next time i go testing, but i can only say that DACs also have a great impact on sound. As much as software, like hqplayer has.


----------



## imackler

Toying with the idea of an E12A. Has anyone compared the E12A with something like the SR71a, Pico Power, AhA-120, ALO National etc. when powering a HD600 or HD650? Thanks!


----------



## bzippy

dobrescu george said:


> i had come to like only very few headphones, si basically i am searching to flavour the ones i like, this is why amps and DACs are a nice thing to have around.
> 
> I agree with you, first invest in headphones, then in something else.
> 
> About DACs, i will test much deeper next time i go testing, but i can only say that DACs also have a great impact on sound. As much as software, like hqplayer has.


 

 ok, cool. i can't say i've tried enough to say so i'll take your word on it.


----------



## mdiogofs

imackler said:


> Toying with the idea of an E12A. Has anyone compared the E12A with something like the SR71a, Pico Power, AhA-120, ALO National etc. when powering a HD600 or HD650? Thanks!


 
 Check this review out. It mentions the HD650.
  
http://www.headfonia.com/fiio-e12a-great-budget-iem-amp/


----------



## Dobrescu George

in my experience, i could not touch full volume with hd650... power wise, it has enough, and sounds better than other portables at the same price point.


----------



## imackler

dobrescu george said:


> in my experience, i could not touch full volume with hd650... power wise, it has enough, and sounds better than other portables at the same price point.


 
 Thanks! I would trust it to smack around other amps at this price point with the HD650. I guess I'm wondering if it can hang with those amps that 2x or 3x as much. All the others I listed I had really good experience with the HD650. The E12 had enough juice...but was "meh". I wish Fiio had the sound quality of the E12A with the raw power of the E12.


----------



## Mcgeggy

I just ordered the E12A. Also got the T-Peos Altone 200's yesterday. They are a bit sizzly up top on first listen, so hopefully the E12A may tame it up a bit... Otherwise they sound great!


----------



## hakushondaimao

imackler said:


> Toying with the idea of an E12A. Has anyone compared the E12A with something like the SR71a, Pico Power, AhA-120, ALO National etc. when powering a HD600 or HD650? Thanks!


 
  
 Deleted.


----------



## Dobrescu George

imackler said:


> Thanks! I would trust it to smack around other amps at this price point with the HD650. I guess I'm wondering if it can hang with those amps that 2x or 3x as much. All the others I listed I had really good experience with the HD650. The E12 had enough juice...but was "meh". I wish Fiio had the sound quality of the E12A with the raw power of the E12.


 
 i think that if one is to implement such a high power output, it is impossible to do so with muses op-amps...


----------



## ReizeiMako

hakushondaimao said:


> Have been listening to the Oppo PM-1 (review unit) for the last few days. Last night did a little A/B between the E12A and Cypher Labs Picollo (both of which I love with IEMs and easier driving cans). Neither really hit the spot when compared with the headphone out of my home A/V (Marantz NR1501), but I can say unequivocally that the E12A spanked the Picollo big time. SQ with the E12A was acceptably musical and pleasant to listen to, if not brilliant, while on the Picollo sound was distorted and uncomfortable on the ears.


 
 I have both units and disagree. E12A is really good amp and I love it but Picollo still a winner with better mid and bass quality. Soundstage and treble is almost equal for both units though. Anyway I heard no distortion from Picollo and enjoy this amp very much.


----------



## hakushondaimao

reizeimako said:


> I have both units and disagree. E12A is really good amp and I love it but Picollo still a winner with better mid and bass quality. Soundstage and treble is almost equal for both units though. Anyway I heard no distortion from Picollo and enjoy this amp very much.


 
  
 Have deleted my original comment. I've actually never had any issues with the Picollo or E12A before, with any of my IEMs or headphones, but for some reason seemed to get hit with a perfect S&*tstorm when I did this comparison, and should have tested further.
  
 Using iPod Mini as source, switching between Picollo and E12A, running the Oppo PM-1s using the supplied 1m OFC cable, and playing Al Di Meola's "Elegant Gypsy" album (ALAC), I really have to say I had a horrible listening experience and didn't enjoy the sound coming out of either amp at all. Not sure if it was the iPod Mini, the OFC cable, the album rip, or combination. Unfortunately I'm DAP-less at the moment as I wait for my X3ii to arrive... could have been the Mini...
  
 Tonight I tried a few other albums, with the same combo and the 3m OCC Oppo cable, and things were much better. SQ still wasn't up to the standard of my A/V receiver, but was very enjoyable and musical, and the two amps were quite comparable.
  
 Thanks for calling me out on this one. You were bang on.


----------



## ReizeiMako

hakushondaimao said:


> Have deleted my original comment. I've actually never had any issues with the Picollo or E12A before, with any of my IEMs or headphones, but for some reason seemed to get hit with a perfect S&*tstorm when I did this comparison, and should have tested further.
> 
> Using iPod Mini as source, switching between Picollo and E12A, running the Oppo PM-1s using the supplied 1m OFC cable, and playing Al Di Meola's "Elegant Gypsy" album (ALAC), I really have to say I had a horrible listening experience and didn't enjoy the sound coming out of either amp at all. Not sure if it was the iPod Mini, the OFC cable, the album rip, or combination. Unfortunately I'm DAP-less at the moment as I wait for my X3ii to arrive... could have been the Mini...
> 
> ...


 
 I'm glad you can enjoy music again! Never had issue with cable so I can't imagine how terrible the sound is with the broken one. Anyway we agree that E12A is an excellent amp. At its price range and little bit above this little shiny thing is really shine.


----------



## Tuneslover

I was wondering if anyone else is using an iPod Classic (160G) with an E12a? I have them connected using the Line Out. I find that whenever I use any of the Ipod EQ offerings my Westone UMPro30's or W30's begin to distort. When I turn the EQ to OFF then all is fine. If I simply connect my IEMs to the iPod headphone output (in other words, don't use the E12a) no distortion issues occur regardless whatever EQ selection I choose.

Has anyone else experienced this type of problem? Any ideas on what could be causing the IEMs to distort?


----------



## Paulus XII

Not with the X3.


----------



## ClieOS

tuneslover said:


> I was wondering if anyone else is using an iPod Classic (160G) with an E12a? I have them connected using the Line Out. I find that whenever I use any of the Ipod EQ offerings my Westone UMPro30's or W30's begin to distort. When I turn the EQ to OFF then all is fine. If I simply connect my IEMs to the iPod headphone output (in other words, don't use the E12a) no distortion issues occur regardless whatever EQ selection I choose.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this type of problem? Any ideas on what could be causing the IEMs to distort?


 
  
 Those distortion come from iPod's EQ as it is digital and Apple doesn't reserve any headroom, therefore EQ on iPod almost always result in clipping. The only difference I can see here is having much more power on the E12A makes the distortion much more obvious. Basically it is a case of crap-in-crap-out, and why disabling EQ turns everything back to normal again. It is, unfortunately, a long time problem for all iPod and Apple never care to implement its EQ the right way.


----------



## cheznous

mcgeggy said:


> See, I'm not sure which cable I need as I've seen two mentioned in relation to the A17. I was hoping that the FiiO L5 Line Out Dock (LOD) Cable For Sony Walkman would be all that is needed to connect from A17 usb port to E12a.
> 
> But I've also come across the more expensive Sony WMC-NWH10 USB Conversion Cable for Hi Res Audio Output. But the Sony cable sounds like it is to maintain hi-res output, which I don't need since I listen to flac 16/44. Does that make sense?



You only need the line out cable. The NWH 10 extracts a digital signal to an external DAC. So not applicable with external amp.


----------



## Tuneslover

clieos said:


> Those distortion come from iPod's EQ as it is digital and Apple doesn't reserve any headroom, therefore EQ on iPod almost always result in clipping. The only difference I can see here is having much more power on the E12A makes the distortion much more obvious. Basically it is a case of crap-in-crap-out, and why disabling EQ turns everything back to normal again. It is, unfortunately, a long time problem for all iPod and Apple never care to implement its EQ the right way.


 
 Thanks I appreciate your feedback.  I kind of suspected that what you said might be the case of why I get this annoying distortion.  The preset EQ settings on the iPod show graphically what is happening and unfortunately they seem to "crank" everything up even when all you are looking for is a slight boost or reduction in only a few frequencies.  I also agree that the introduction of the E12a only "amplifies" the extreme EQ'ing from the iPod.
  
 As I original said, so long as I leave the EQ off then all is fine.  However sometimes I feel that my IEM's need some moderate sound tailoring.  I'm wondering if a DAP would be something that I should consider.  I assume a DAP allows custom EQ'ing (as opposed to preset EQ's).  I am right?


----------



## Dobrescu George

tuneslover said:


> Thanks I appreciate your feedback.  I kind of suspected that what you said might be the case of why I get this annoying distortion.  The preset EQ settings on the iPod show graphically what is happening and unfortunately they seem to "crank" everything up even when all you are looking for is a slight boost or reduction in only a few frequencies.  I also agree that the introduction of the E12a only "amplifies" the extreme EQ'ing from the iPod.
> 
> As I original said, so long as I leave the EQ off then all is fine.  However sometimes I feel that my IEM's need some moderate sound tailoring.  I'm wondering if a DAP would be something that I should consider.  I assume a DAP allows custom EQ'ing (as opposed to preset EQ's).  I am right?


 
 Fiio x5 does not have any of the mentioned problems, and now with the new UIs it actually feels very very good. 
  
 i would strongly advice you to test before buying.
  
 Eq-ing is very good done in x3II also, and if you already have e12a, x3II from fiio is great! the eq it has, lets you do eq however you want, and is totally distortion free


----------



## Tuneslover

dobrescu george said:


> Fiio x5 does not have any of the mentioned problems, and now with the new UIs it actually feels very very good.
> 
> i would strongly advice you to test before buying.
> 
> Eq-ing is very good done in x3II also, and if you already have e12a, x3II from fiio is great! the eq it has, lets you do eq however you want, and is totally distortion free


 
 Thanks skerry and I agree with you that new FiiO X3ii might be a worthwhile DAP to try out.  I think I might have to take another drive to the Headfone Shop in Toronto and audition it.


----------



## hakushondaimao

tuneslover said:


> Thanks skerry and I agree with you that new FiiO X3ii might be a worthwhile DAP to try out.  I think I might have to take another drive to the Headfone Shop in Toronto and audition it.


 

 I have an iPod Mini and an X3ii, and find the distortion on the Mini when using EQ fairly annoying. With EQ off, the sound is pretty good. Had a back-and-forth with @ReizeiMako about some distortion issues I had when testing the Oppo PM-1 with the the E12A and CLAP, and now recall that I had EQ on which was probably the problem all along.
  
 Don't have any issues with the X3ii, with EQ on or off.


----------



## ClieOS

To expend what I have talked about: Say an iPod has a max output of 10 on its circuit, and will distort when the output beign pushed over 10. Normally this won't be a problem because when you max out the volume on iPod, the output only reaches 10 and no more. But because EQ on iPod "digitally" boost the max output (for example, to 11), now the signal coming out of the DAC want to push over 10 - and of course it can't, because the circuit itself only physically / electronically capable of outputting 10 max. So what happens? Well, it start 'clipping' (= distortion).
  
 Now a properly designed software EQ, such as the one on FiiO, does it a different way - first, when the EQ is enable, the system drops the max output to a lower level (say 9), which in term reserves a headroom of 1 for the EQ. So when the EQ digitally boosts the signal, it will add 1 back to the max output and come out with a total of 10. That means it is still within the capability of the circuit, thus no distortion.
  
 Now that's one of the basic that separates a good EQ from a bad EQ implementation.


----------



## imackler

What's your all favorite dap to go with this amp? I haven't heard the line out w my x3 but haven't loved it as is. Too warm and the mids are weirdly recessed, imp.


----------



## Skullbox

imackler said:


> What's your all favorite dap to go with this amp? I haven't heard the line out w my x3 but haven't loved it as is. Too warm and the mids are weirdly recessed, imp.




Have you tried the new X3 II ? Good option for the wallet! But, it doesn't realy need amp.Unless if you have high imp cans. He can drive well by itself


----------



## KLJTech

imackler said:


> What's your all favorite dap to go with this amp? I haven't heard the line out w my x3 but haven't loved it as is. Too warm and the mids are weirdly recessed, imp.


 
  
 E12A sounds great with the X3, the sound is more spacious and transparent. You no longer get that overly(?) warm sound and with my IEM's and headphones the midrange sounds better. Of course opinions will vary and I'm sure it depends on what IEM or HP you're using. I tried the combination with the Westone W40's, B&W P7's and HE-400 & 500's.


----------



## Paulus XII

kljtech said:


> E12A sounds great with the X3, the sound is more spacious and transparent. You no longer get that overly(?) warm sound and with my IEM's and headphones the midrange sounds better. Of course opinions will vary and I'm sure it depends on what IEM or HP you're using. I tried the combination with the Westone W40's, B&W P7's and HE-400 & 500's.


 
  
 Exactly how I would describe it with the Westone W40's.


----------



## nmatheis

Yes, something like E12A or C5 is a good complement to the original X3's sound signature


----------



## sandman1990

nmatheis said:


> Yes, something like E12A or C5 is a good complement to the original X3's sound signature


 

 Absolutely! The E12A has kept me from moving on to another DAP.


----------



## nmatheis

sandman1990 said:


> Absolutely! The E12A has kept me from moving on to another DAP.




If E12A were released *before* X5, I *might* be in the same boat...


----------



## Paulus XII

I think the original X3 with E12A is close to perfection, but I will have X3 II tomorrow for testing (with and without E12A).


----------



## sandman1990

nmatheis said:


> If E12A were released *before* X5, I *might* be in the same boat...


 

 And now you have an even better combo


----------



## Dobrescu George

I had been unable to fiind a good camera case to fit the x5+e12a. i think that i am going to buy something that is bigger by a margin, and be happy that i can carry maybe hugo or other stuff in it in the future.


----------



## KLJTech

I found the a great soft case yesterday at Best Buy, the *Lowepro Newport 30 *and it has the loop on the back so it can be carried on your belt/hip. It's pretty much a perfect fit and as small as you can possibly go with the two stacked together. I've ordered a few different camera bags from Amazon but never one that fit this well. My goal was to go as small as I could but still have plenty of room for the X5 and E12A...plus it has a hidden zippered flat pocket in front that you could use to store your IEM's. The Lowepro Newport 30 was $10. 
  
 If I can find the time I'll post a pic of the bag next to the stack and then with them in the bag.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I actually think that i am better interested in keeping the stack around shoulder, not at belt, because, i am not skinny, and it might proove not to be in favor of the stack and iems if i carry it on belt. i think that i had found something to fit my needs. It is around 10$, which is great, considering that the cheapest other option was around 50$, i will post photos with what i end up.
  
 Sadly, it seems that only some items are alavaible in Romania too, so i might never be able to get something that fits someone elses's needs. 
  
 For refference, x5+e12a stack needs 7X15X5 cm, and the total size of a chord hugo is  100X20X132. considering a stacked hugo with a x5, a bad that can accomodate around 5 depth, is 15 and 11 l should be enough, but only for x5+e12a, i still would need a good 15cm long one, because this is how long it gets with the fiio stacking kit cable, which seems a good ideea, as it comes with the stack. On the other hand, i had not even bought the stacking kit as it was not alavable at the moment... ah, decisions...


----------



## KLJTech

Ya gotta get whatever works for you. I like having it on my belt as it makes adjusting the volume or anything else very easy to get to and it's out of the way. I think that anyone looking to use the X5 and E12 or E12A stack will find that this bag is just about as small as you can go while still having access to the controls. If you found another option please post it. I'm liking this setup!


----------



## Dobrescu George

kljtech said:


> Ya gotta get whatever works for you. I like having it on my belt as it makes adjusting the volume or anything else very easy to get to and it's out of the way. I think that anyone looking to use the X5 and E12 or E12A stack will find that this bag is just about as small as you can go while still having access to the controls. If you found another option please post it. I'm liking this setup!


 
 I am very curious to see pictures to understand how it works, it seems like a good ideea, but i want to see how you were able to do it, the case chosen by you is pretty short, considering that measured with ruler, x5 and e12a have 13 cm to not hinder the volume potentiometer.
  
 Something i wanted to side ask is if everybody gets a little stiff wheel. i mean, mine feels a little stiff...


----------



## KLJTech

The bag is .5" to .75" longer than it needs to be to hold the stack (perfect width). When I'm not using it I zip it closed and when in use I unzip just the top so that I can access the headphone input on the E12A and adjust the volume. This bag doesn't unzip much down one side so when I have the top open there is no way for the gear to fall out and I can get to whatever I need...or simply lift the stack out for a second if I need to select another album and then  slide it back in. 
  
 Frankly, even if I don't use the amp with the X5 I prefer to carry the DAP this way, much less risk to the X5 in the bag than slipping in the front pocket of a pair of pants. When this is on my belt I don't even notice it but in the pocket your have to be very careful.


----------



## Dobrescu George

kljtech said:


> The bag is .5" to .75" longer than it needs to be to hold the stack (perfect width). When I'm not using it I zip it closed and when in use I unzip just the top so that I can access the headphone input on the E12A and adjust the volume. This bag doesn't unzip much down one side so when I have the top open there is no way for the gear to fall out and I can get to whatever I need...or simply lift the stack out for a second if I need to select another album and then  slide it back in.
> 
> Frankly, even if I don't use the amp with the X5 I prefer to carry the DAP this way, much less risk to the X5 in the bag than slipping in the front pocket of a pair of pants. When this is on my belt I don't even notice it but in the pocket your have to be very careful.


 
 I never had x5 in pants pocket. most of my paints are way too tight to be okay with x5. i do not carry anything in pants pockets usually, so this is not new. i hhave only jackets with big deep pockets, in which i slide everything. only that the stack is too big to slide in this jacket's pocket. for refference, the size is at fault, because i can comfortably keep more than a 0.5l juice pet, two lion bars, and an apple. inside the pocket


----------



## KLJTech

Well, a jacket would certainly work but I'm in Florida, it's a million degrees outside and muggy (think Vietnam without the charm) so jacket won't work for me. Most everyone thinks its nothing more than a cellphone case.


----------



## Dobrescu George

kljtech said:


> Well, a jacket would certainly work but I'm in Florida, it's a million degrees outside and muggy (think Vietnam without the charm) so jacket won't work for me. Most everyone thinks its nothing more than a cellphone case.


 
 Ah, in Romania, it is getting hotter, i got x5 alone at the begging of last autumn, so i am yet to fiind a solution to use it in summer, but yes, i should get a solution for the problem of carying. 
  
 I am going to buy a very cheap solution, and maybe upgrade if need be.


----------



## riodgarp

I thought using a small bag for e12/a and a dap is good idea, except  folded m2m cable inside the bag are annoy me, I mean for another dap that didn't match fiio stacking kits


----------



## Tuneslover

kljtech said:


> I found the a great soft case yesterday at Best Buy, the *Lowepro Newport 30 *and it has the loop on the back so it can be carried on your belt/hip. It's pretty much a perfect fit and as small as you can possibly go with the two stacked together. I've ordered a few different camera bags from Amazon but never one that fit this well. My goal was to go as small as I could but still have plenty of room for the X5 and E12A...plus it has a hidden zippered flat pocket in front that you could use to store your IEM's. The Lowepro Newport 30 was $10.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Cool idea, I'll have to check around the house as I believe we have a few small camera pouches. Looks nice and compact. I have been using a small fanny pack that I strap around my waste.


----------



## Dobrescu George

tuneslover said:


> Cool idea, I'll have to check around the house as I believe we have a few small camera pouches. Looks nice and compact. I have been using a small fanny pack that I strap around my *waste.*


 
 I think that you meant waist. it means quite a different thing this way
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Back to the problem, i had been searching for two days now for a solution... might as well get something a little bigger and see how that plays out.


----------



## Tuneslover

dobrescu george said:


> I think that you meant waist. it means quite a different thing this way
> 
> Back to the problem, i had been searching for two days now for a solution... might as well get something a little bigger and see how that plays out.




Very good you caught that...you passed the test...LOL!


----------



## White Lotus

dobrescu george said:


> I had been unable to fiind a good camera case to fit the x5+e12a. i think that i am going to buy something that is bigger by a margin, and be happy that i can carry maybe hugo or other stuff in it in the future.


 
 Otterbox!


----------



## hakushondaimao

From the looks of things the Pelican 1020 Micro Case would fit the X5+E12A stack perfectly and snugly. No room for IEMs or interconnect though.


----------



## Mr Trev

hakushondaimao said:


> From the looks of things the Pelican 1020 Micro Case would fit the X5+E12A stack perfectly and snugly. No room for IEMs or interconnect though.


 
 Got a 1020 for my x3/e12a stack. Fits well, including iems & cable (disconnected). Actually it does rattle round a bit, but I also got the foam, so just a matter of using it.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I finally got something to carry my stack. it looks more of a rave in person, but fits badly with the rest of me, as i am a big person, and the thing is small and trying to look tiny. It looks like an adult carying a child's purse, but it works, so no complains. i spent 10$ at kenvelo on this thing.


----------



## Tuneslover

I bought my E12a a Fiio X3ii today. My iPod Classic will be relegated to the gym. I'll post my impressions of the X3ii once I have had an opportunity to spend some time with it.


----------



## vrln

Just got my E12A today too! My first FiiO product actually. Really looking forward to testing it. It´s charging now...


----------



## bavinck

vrln said:


> Just got my E12A today too! My first FiiO product actually. Really looking forward to testing it. It´s charging now...


 
 I just played mine out of the box.


----------



## Dobrescu George

bavinck said:


> I just played mine out of the box.


 
 Fiio products must be recharget before usage, as any other new products, the battery leaves factory in a 80% state, and using it right after a long period of time might degrade it.


----------



## bavinck

dobrescu george said:


> Fiio products must be recharget before usage, as any other new products, the battery leaves factory in a 80% state, and using it right after a long period of time might degrade it.


 
 Completely depleting these batteries at any time would be harmful to the battery, doesn't matter if it is new. Good rule of thumb for battery life is to keep it over 50% all the time. Hard to do with the e12a though, as there is no indicator except when very low.


----------



## Dobrescu George

bavinck said:


> Completely depleting these batteries at any time would be harmful to the battery, doesn't matter if it is new. Good rule of thumb for battery life is to keep it over 50% all the time. Hard to do with the e12a though, as there is no indicator except when very low.


 
 Well, as a rule of thumb, after listening an entire day, charge.. it is simple this way. it charges amazingly fast...
  
  
  
  
  
 Is my purse for x5+e12a stack too unproper?


----------



## cvbcbcmv (Oct 7, 2020)

deleted


----------



## riodgarp

dobrescu george said:


> Well, as a rule of thumb, after listening an entire day, charge.. it is simple this way. it charges amazingly fast...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 you charge your e12a with what charger? I used a 5 V / 750 mAh output nokia charger take a long way about 8 hours


----------



## Dobrescu George

riodgarp said:


> you charge your e12a with what charger? I used a 5 V / 750 mAh output nokia charger take a long way about 8 hours


 
 I charged mine with the charger that came with mobile phone, 1,5A.
  
 You can fiind 1,5A-2A chargers that are small and pretty inexpensive ~10$ at mobile phone shops
  
 for me, even with usb from laptop it charges pretty fast, but i seem to never deplete the battery, as i preffer to charge at the end of the day,
  
 EDIT: i am looking to buy a stacking kit hs6. it is impossible to fiind, and i do not know what to do, because if i buy from outside of romania i have to travel 200KM to pick it up from delivery, things deliver at a security center...
  
 IS there anyone who lives near Romania, and can send differently? or anyone from Romania who lives very close to the "posta vamala" and can help me buy one?


----------



## Paulus XII

cvbcbcmv said:


> I just wanted to comment on the E12a vs. JDS Labs C5. I've had the E12a for a little while and just got my C5 (listening on an X3ii). What I'm getting is neither is necessarily "better," as it depends on what you like. The sound signature is VERY different. Like it doesn't take an analytical audiophile to hear it, it's noticeable immediately. The C5 is much brighter, has a wider soundstage in my opinion, and the sound is much more forward overall. Things just seems less distant than they do with the e12a. With the bass boost adjustments, it's possible to get a lot more bass from it too if you're someone who likes a lot of bass. I'm still not totally sure what I want to do yet (I'm only going to keep one), but I think I'm going to keep the C5. I love love love the e12a, let me be clear, I just think the sound sig of the C5 fits me better. The e12a definitely fits Fiio's kind of "house sound" as you guys have referred to it of being a warmer amp, but not really with too much emphasis in the low end. That kind of sounds contradictory, hopefully it makes sense. It's a warmer amp, but the bass doesn't really have a kick to it.


 
  
 This is 100% accurate. The only thing that makes all the difference to me is the much better E12A treble.


----------



## Dobrescu George

cvbcbcmv said:


> I just wanted to comment on the E12a vs. JDS Labs C5. I've had the E12a for a little while and just got my C5 (listening on an X3ii). What I'm getting is neither is necessarily "better," as it depends on what you like. The sound signature is VERY different. Like it doesn't take an analytical audiophile to hear it, it's noticeable immediately. The C5 is much brighter, has a wider soundstage in my opinion, and the sound is much more forward overall. Things just seems less distant than they do with the e12a. With the bass boost adjustments, it's possible to get a lot more bass from it too if you're someone who likes a lot of bass. I'm still not totally sure what I want to do yet (I'm only going to keep one), but I think I'm going to keep the C5. I love love love the e12a, let me be clear, I just think the sound sig of the C5 fits me better. The e12a definitely fits Fiio's kind of "house sound" as you guys have referred to it of being a warmer amp, but not really with too much emphasis in the low end. That kind of sounds contradictory, hopefully it makes sense. It's a warmer amp, but the bass doesn't really have a kick to it.


 
 I am not able to understand what you are trying to say. so c5 is warmer but has less soundstage? i do not get it how it can be forward and have big soundstage... e12a kind of sounded like hd800 in my view, distant, amazing soundstage, and pretty neutral, with a total black soundstage, compared to x5 alone and e12, and other amps i tried, but i am trying to understand how exactly c5 sounds, and i am unable.
  
 Also, does c5 have exactly the same total black background?
  
 Or by forward you mean that the background is not black, which is the best feature of e12a?


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## cvbcbcmv (Oct 7, 2020)

deleted


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## Dobrescu George

cvbcbcmv said:


> Interesting, I find the treble better on the C5. I think the highs are just so much more detailed and prevalent, but not in a fatiguing way.
> I think you got confused which amp I was talking about. I find the e12a the warmer amp, and I think the soundstage isn't as wide as the C5. I just think things are less distant with the C5. Even though the C5 has a bigger soundstage, the things that should be right in your face are. I find everything a little too distant with the e12a. The C5 in my opinion is clearer, more detailed, and everything is more in your face, yet not fatiguing. I actually find the e12a fatiguing me more than the c5 because I need to make it louder to get the clarity in the highs that I like.
> 
> On low gain, the c5 has a total black background. A tiny bit of hiss on high gain, silent on low gain. (I assume by that you're talking about things like hiss)


 
 interesting. I might be interested, if i will ever be able to listen before buying.


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## Paulus XII

cvbcbcmv said:


> Interesting, I find the treble better on the C5. I think the highs are just so much more detailed and prevalent, but not in a fatiguing way.
> I think you got confused which amp I was talking about. I find the e12a the warmer amp, and I think the soundstage isn't as wide as the C5. I just think things are less distant with the C5. Even though the C5 has a bigger soundstage, the things that should be right in your face are. I find everything a little too distant with the e12a. The C5 in my opinion is clearer, more detailed, and everything is more in your face, yet not fatiguing. I actually find the e12a fatiguing me more than the c5 because I need to make it louder to get the clarity in the highs that I like.
> 
> On low gain, the c5 has a total black background. A tiny bit of hiss on high gain, silent on low gain. (I assume by that you're talking about things like hiss)


 
  
 Sorry man, my bad. I was referring to JDSLabs C5.


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## Tuneslover

tuneslover said:


> I bought my E12a a Fiio X3ii today. My iPod Classic will be relegated to the gym. I'll post my impressions of the X3ii once I have had an opportunity to spend some time with it.




FYI, I just posted my early impressions of the X3ii with the E12a on the FiiO X3ii thread.


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## cvbcbcmv (Oct 7, 2020)

deleted


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## Paulus XII

cvbcbcmv said:


> Just to clarify, when you said you prefer the much better treble on ____, you were referring to the JDS Labs C5? So you prefer the treble of the C5 over the e12a?
> 
> I've been swapping back and forth with my e12a and my c5 like a madman all day
> 
> ...


 
  
 I wouldn't like to put it this way, but frankly, JDSLabs C5 treble is really bad comparable to E12A. Everything else is excelent.
  
 Very curious about the Cayin C5 now. I love treble and bass ; )


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## cvbcbcmv (Oct 7, 2020)

deleted


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## Paulus XII

So you love JDS treble? lol.


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## cvbcbcmv (Oct 7, 2020)

deleted


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## Paulus XII

cvbcbcmv said:


> I do. What do you dislike about it? To me it seems very clear and detailed on the C5, and distant on the e12a.


 
  
 Everything


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## cvbcbcmv (Oct 7, 2020)

deleted


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## riodgarp

why wondering? every person has its own hearing


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## Paulus XII

cvbcbcmv said:


> Are you sure you weren't listening on a defective unit? I mean I get if the highs aren't your cup of tea, but I'm shocked that you could love the treble of the e12a and hate it on the C5.


 
  
 I'm sure. I've tried another unit. Treble was so dry and raw and lifeless. Even X3 treble was better.
  
 I'm talking about C5, not C5D, NOT SURE IF IT IMPROVED.


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## cvbcbcmv (Oct 7, 2020)

deleted


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## Paulus XII

More like different tastes, maybe : )


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## cvbcbcmv (Oct 7, 2020)

deleted


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## Paulus XII

cvbcbcmv said:


> Definitely. It's somewhat a wonderful thing that this hobby isn't so popular, but it's also a bad thing since often times expensive choices have to be made based on the tastes of others, when as proven here, they can vary so much from person to person.


 
  
 That's true. Sony EX1000 fiasco was the greatest example to me personally.


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## Dobrescu George

I still want much more treble... c5 would be great if it would have more, but i also love how e12a does the treble, so full of love, not forward, nor recessed, making them not lacking nor too much, everything is just so amazing, but i must accept that it is the only portable amp besides e12 in the cheap range that i heared. besides it i only heared chord hugo and ifi idsd as a portable amp...


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## Paulus XII

Could have more bass like JDS C5 (thunderous). But treble is indeed very good as well as mids.


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## Dobrescu George

Anyone knows which one of apple 2A charger or Belkin 2A charger adds less noise?
  
 My zte charger that came with the phone adds no noise at all, but neither does laptop if i use while charging, but i need a 2A charger, and i have to chose between an apple one at 20$ and a belkin at 15$.


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## imackler

If anyone has an experience in comparing the following, do you prefer the E12, E12 DIY (Stock) or E12A w/ the HD600 or HD650? Fiio rates all of them up to 300ohms, but I see their power output varies a bit. Thanks! (I'll ask on the other threads as well.)


----------



## Dobrescu George

imackler said:


> If anyone has an experience in comparing the following, do you prefer the E12, E12 DIY (Stock) or E12A w/ the HD600 or HD650? Fiio rates all of them up to 300ohms, but I see their power output varies a bit. Thanks! (I'll ask on the other threads as well.)


 
 I had in my hand for a period of time, both e12 and e12a.
  
 To keep it short, for hd600 and hd650, you have to test.
 e12a is totally able to power them and sounded better to my ears.
 E12a had better soundstage, separation, blacker background and was better in general.


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## bavinck

I just found out the e12a sounds terrible, very bright, just before it runs out of juice. I could not figure out what was going on, then all the music stopped lol.


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## Dobrescu George

bavinck said:


> I just found out the e12a sounds terrible, very bright, just before it runs out of juice. I could not figure out what was going on, then all the music stopped lol.


 
 I am yet to completley discharge it, but i will post about if something like this will happen.
  
 Does anyone have pretty tight/hard to rotate knob, or e12a runs pretty warm?


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## bavinck

The e12 had a vol pot even tighter to prevent unwanted volume increases in pockets, the e12a is perfect imo. It runs a very tad warm, maybe 25 C.


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## bavinck

dobrescu george said:


> I am yet to completley discharge it, but i will post about if something like this will happen.
> 
> Does anyone have pretty tight/hard to rotate knob, or e12a runs pretty warm?


 
 I left the amp on all night by accident, and hadn't charged it the night before that. All things considered I am very surprised it lasted as long as it did!


----------



## Dobrescu George

bavinck said:


> I left the amp on all night by accident, and hadn't charged it the night before that. All things considered I am very surprised it lasted as long as it did!


 
 that is quite the battery life. normally, after a day i am charging, with 1.5A, it charges in ~30-80 minutes.
  
 I was contemplating the fact that it became very warm today, as i have been keeping my stack inside my sidebag, and wanted to know if it is normal, or it could damage it.


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## riodgarp

dobrescu george said:


> that is quite the battery life. normally, after a day i am charging, with 1.5A, it charges in ~30-80 minutes.
> 
> I was contemplating the fact that it became very warm today, as i have been keeping my stack inside my sidebag, and wanted to know if it is normal, or it could damage it.


 
 how long it's exactly do you use your e12a before charging it?


----------



## Dobrescu George

riodgarp said:


> how long it's exactly do you use your e12a before charging it?


 
 6-8 Hours average.


----------



## bzippy

imackler said:


> If anyone has an experience in comparing the following, do you prefer the E12, E12 DIY (Stock) or E12A w/ the HD600 or HD650? Fiio rates all of them up to 300ohms, but I see their power output varies a bit. Thanks! (I'll ask on the other threads as well.)


 
  
  
 With my HD600 i preferred the overall sound of the E12 to the E12A. It was more alive and separated. I did prefer the E12A bass boost though, but chose the E12 despite this. I'm pretty sure FiiO recommends the E12A only up to 150ohm, no? To me that seems like a pretty clear sign that they are not recommending it for the famously 300ohm Senns.
  
 edit:
 i was wrong. the FiiO site does says 300ohm for the E12A. but they do call it the "IEM" model for some reason, even though i've never heard of a 300ohm iem. oh well, whatever.


----------



## Dobrescu George

bzippy said:


> With my HD600 i preferred the overall sound of the E12 to the E12A. It was more alive and separated. I did prefer the E12A bass boost though, but chose the E12 despite this. I'm pretty sure FiiO recommends the E12A only up to 150ohm, no? To me that seems like a pretty clear sign that they are not recommending it for the famously 300ohm Senns.


 
 actually, on it's page it is recommended to up to 300 ohm. I think that it is up to everybody to decide if they want to pair 300OHM headphones with e12a or e12. 
  
 on the other hand, there are people using hd800 with e12, and feeling that they have enough, i think that YMMV is the best thing to say about this,


----------



## bzippy

dobrescu george said:


> actually, on it's page it is recommended to up to 300 ohm. I think that it is up to everybody to decide if they want to pair 300OHM headphones with e12a or e12.
> 
> on the other hand, there are people using hd800 with e12, and feeling that they have enough, i think that YMMV is the best thing to say about this,


 

 oops, sorry. i was wrong. post edited.


----------



## Dobrescu George

bzippy said:


> oops, sorry. i was wrong. post edited.


 
 no problem. 
  
 It seems that i also have been wrong, it takes around two hours for me to recharge with 1.5A after suing it 8 hours a day.


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## riodgarp

dobrescu george said:


> 6-8 Hours average.


 
 did you experience any problem with your daily routine (use-charge-use again) your e12a ? the battery ?


----------



## Dobrescu George

riodgarp said:


> did you experience any problem with your daily routine (use-charge-use again) your e12a ? the battery ?


 
 what kind of problems are you looking for?
  
 nothing special, it charges, i use, it charges again. works like it should, if you ask me


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## riodgarp

dobrescu george said:


> what kind of problems are you looking for?
> 
> nothing special, it charges, i use, it charges again. works like it should, if you ask me



like drowning battery or something else ?


----------



## Dobrescu George

riodgarp said:


> like drowning battery or something else ?


 
 i had not depleted completley the battery yet. 8 hours a day max without recharge. 2 hours max for recharge.
  
 It is pretty nice.


----------



## eadomin

Hello, I am a starting member.  I own a Rock-It R50 and just acquired the ATH-M50X. I am using my old Ipod Classic, my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 and the Samsung Galaxy Note Pro 8.4 as music sources. I need assistance on how can I improve the sound for my IEM and headphone.
 I have been reading and learning the benefits of the Fiio E12A for IEM's as well as headphones. Would I be wasting my money buying this class of amplifier? Are there better recommendations for my gear? I want to listen to my phones with quality and better listening volume levels. Also want to get the most of my sources.


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## bavinck

@eadomin what kind of source files are you using? Mp3 or flac? What music player are you using? Are you finding the volume out of your note 4 sufficient?


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## riodgarp

eadomin said:


> Hello, I am a starting member.  I own a Rock-It R50 and just acquired the ATH-M50X. I am using my old Ipod Classic, my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 and the Samsung Galaxy Note Pro 8.4 as music sources. I need assistance on how can I improve the sound for my IEM and headphone.
> I have been reading and learning the benefits of the Fiio E12A for IEM's as well as headphones. Would I be wasting my money buying this class of amplifier? Are there better recommendations for my gear? I want to listen to my phones with quality and better listening volume levels. Also want to get the most of my sources.


 
  
 I would use ipod classic via LOD with Fiio e12 for example


----------



## bavinck

riodgarp said:


> I would use ipod classic via LOD with Fiio e12 for example




Not sure that is the best course of action for iems though. The e12 is known to be noisy with them. Most people recommend the e12a with iems. That being said, I am not sure my immediate recommend would be an amp unless he finds the note 4 cannot power his headphones. In my experience, dacs and music sources make the most difference to sound quality next to the headphone itself. If he wants to switch from his note 4 I would recommend considering an entry level dap before an ipod, like the Fiio x3ii. However, before we make recommendations we need more information from him about his sources files and exactly what he wants to improve on sq wise.


----------



## eadomin

Thank you all for your support, my music has a combination of mp3 (recorded with variable bit rates) and AAIFF files. The volume I get from my Galaxy Note 4 using the ATH M50X is not enough for my listening needs. The Ipod Classic has a better volume output but also falls short. With an amp in my configuration I can use a LOD cable to connect my Ipod and was thinking on also buying an HifimeDiy Sabre Android DAC to connect to my Galaxy Note 4 and bypass its internal DAC. I would probably go in the future for a better music source, so whatever I buy at this time should be also usable with better resolution players.


----------



## bavinck

eadomin said:


> Thank you all for your support, my music has a combination of mp3 (recorded with variable bit rates) and AAIFF files. The volume I get from my Galaxy Note 4 using the ATH M50X is not enough for my listening needs. The Ipod Classic has a better volume output but also falls short. With an amp in my configuration I can use a LOD cable to connect my Ipod and was thinking on also buying an HifimeDiy Sabre Android DAC to connect to my Galaxy Note 4 and bypass its internal DAC. I would probably go in the future for a better music source, so whatever I buy at this time should be also usable with better resolution players.



I have used the sabre dac you mentioned with my note 3, sounds great and I get enough volume for my needs. That would be a good price point to enter a better sound. If the volume is still insufficient for you then you can look at adding an amp, but it should be fine especially for your iems.


----------



## eadomin

Thank you bavinck, do you have a recommendation for an amp besides the e12A (in case I want to use my actual musical sources)? Fiio X3K (2nd generation) or Ibasso DX-50? Do you know if I can connect my Galaxy Note 4 to the DAP's with a OTG cable?


----------



## Dobrescu George

eadomin said:


> Thank you bavinck, do you have a recommendation for an amp besides the e12A (in case I want to use my actual musical sources)? Fiio X3K (2nd generation) or Ibasso DX-50? Do you know if I can connect my Galaxy Note 4 to the DAP's with a OTG cable?


 
 you can connect if it has android 5.0 if i remember good.
  
 E12a is better price/performance ratio, if you will have an extrenal DAC.


----------



## bavinck

eadomin said:


> Thank you bavinck, do you have a recommendation for an amp besides the e12A (in case I want to use my actual musical sources)? Fiio X3K (2nd generation) or Ibasso DX-50? Do you know if I can connect my Galaxy Note 4 to the DAP's with a OTG cable?


 
 The Fiio and Ibasso DAPs (digital audio player) has a nice dac and amp built in. Your Note 4 has a moderately suckie dac and amp built in. My suggestion is try the Sabre dac with your phone first, as it is easy and cheap to try bypassing your note 4 dac with OTG. I bet it will have more than enough volume for you. Like skerry wrote, the e12a is an excellent amp, but is $200. If you really want to try the e12a out, pm me as I have once in excellent condition I am considering selling.


----------



## eadomin

I am also evaluating going for a DAP. Fiio X3 2nd generation or the Hidizs AP100. Someone has a recommendation?


----------



## Paulus XII

eadomin said:


> I am also evaluating going for a DAP. Fiio X3 2nd generation or the Hidizs AP100. Someone has a recommendation?


 

  AP100. Better SQ, Hardware EQ.


----------



## nmatheis

paulus xii said:


> AP100. Better SQ, Hardware EQ.




Yeah, the AP100 has me curious!


----------



## riodgarp

but bad sofware


----------



## nmatheis

I've heard it's UI has improved with a recent FW update...

But man are we straying off topic for a Fiio amp thread. Should get back on track...


----------



## Dobrescu George

eadomin said:


> I am also evaluating going for a DAP. Fiio X3 2nd generation or the Hidizs AP100. Someone has a recommendation?


 
  Hidizs AP100 seems like it is having great hardware behind.
  
 still i cannot see if it can be used as a USB DAC, or it has the connectivity options of x3II.
  
 I would still advice for x3II, but considering the price of the other, the only option to know for sure is to go and listen personally.
  
 I can only say with a certain face, that you would not be dissapointed by the SQ of x3II, and not with the firmware wither.


----------



## fxim

Ap100 with e12a is a good balanced combo where e12a fixes where ap100 was deficiency and strengthens the mids and sub bass

My spiel: http://www.head-fi.org/t/721487/review-of-hidizs-ap100-portable-hifi-music-player/450#post_11523702


----------



## Dobrescu George

fxim said:


> Ap100 with e12a is a good balanced combo where e12a fixes where ap100 was deficiency and strengthens the mids and sub bass
> 
> My spiel: http://www.head-fi.org/t/721487/review-of-hidizs-ap100-portable-hifi-music-player/450#post_11523702


 
 it seems like a great deal!
  
 I would like to hear one in person.
  
  
 If anyone in here is interested in a new software for audio playback, and helping me build it, i am helped if you view and vote ^_^ thanks.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/764517/new-application-that-does-high-resolution-resampling-with-lanczos-algorithm-new-user-interface-all-operating-systems


----------



## DMB197641

Having read a lot of topics/reviews I still can't make up my mind ...
  
 Situation:
 I am using a DX50 --> D-ZERO MK2 --> Soundmagic HP200
 Quite happy, but I feel the D-ZERO doesn't make that much of a difference (or I have the feeling there is something out there that is much better  ), and since I hardly use the USB/DAC option (no coaxial input on the D-ZERO)  I want to replace it for either ..
  
 Fiio E12A
 Fiio E12
 Cayin C5
  
 I am a bit concerned about the E12A being labeled as for IEM only/ IEM special edition...
 I have the feeling I am not using it to its full potential... although the HP200 is just a 20 Ohm impedance headphone..
  
 Any tips/suggestions ?
  
 thanks..


----------



## nmatheis

Definitely don't be concerned about E12A being labeled for IEM. It'll drive your HP200 just fine and might help smooth out the top end a bit. I hear the HP200's got some sizzle up there. Still waiting on mine from MassDrop...

Oh yeah, you certainly shouldn't need to amp them with your DAP. I don't think you'll find an amp changes all that much for them. I could always be wrong, though...


----------



## KLJTech

I've used the combo of the X5 & E12A to drive my B&W P7's and HE-400 & 500's without any issues. If I were going to only use planar headphones I would probably opt for the E12 but in my opinion the E12A sounds better with most (not all) headphones and IEM's.


----------



## DMB197641

nmatheis said:


> Oh yeah, you certainly shouldn't need to amp them with your DAP. I don't think you'll find an amp changes all that much for them. I could always be wrong, though...


 
 Thanks for your reply.
 I agree that it's probably not totally necessary to use a separate amp besides the DX50, but I read many people are combining X3/X5 with the E12A on here, even if it's just to change the sound signature...
 Too many options and choices...


----------



## Kerouac

dmb197641 said:


> I agree that it's probably not totally necessary to use a separate amp besides the DX50, but I read many people are combining X3/X5 with the E12A on here, even if it's just to change the sound signature...
> Too many options and choices...


 
 Yep, adding an amp imo mostly changes the sound signature in the end. When I had the DX50 I used a Pico Power to drive my Beyer DT880 (250 ohm) and later on LCD-2, but that headphones really needed the extra power. With my X5 I use a Cayin C5 at the moment and I like the combination, but I'm also still interested in the E12A because I've read that they complement each other pretty well...I also have the E12 and though it drives my headphones very nice, it has way too much hiss when used with iems.
  
 There are many options and choices out there indeed, depending on your budget and sound preference...good luck with finding the right one!
  
_Btw, DMB is echt een geweldige live band_


----------



## KLJTech

dmb197641 said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> I agree that it's probably not totally necessary to use a separate amp besides the DX50, but I read many people are combining X3/X5 with the E12A on here, even if it's just to change the sound signature...
> Too many options and choices...


 
  
 Sorry, you mentioned being concerned that the E12A was meant for IEM's and I was simply was letting you know that it will drive "most" (not all) full-size headphones as well and sound cleaner than most sub-$500 DAP's in doing so. 
 Most any good DAP will have enough juice to power your IEM's or headphones but often times the DAP's DAC section is held back a bit by the amp section. Does that mean you have to use a separate amp? No. 
  
 A lot of us use/used a separate DAC with our home CD players, even though the CD player has a DAC built into it and I don't see this situation being much different. I really like the feel of the X5 in hand without an amp and with the nice black leather Dignis case, but "to me" it sounds better via its line out feeding the E12A. Do you need an amp with the X5? No, but with good recordings and good IEM's or headphones I think you'll find that E12A allows the X5's DAC to sound even more impressive.
  
 Whatever DAP I bought I'd certainly want to hear it by itself for a month or so before trying an amp with it. I'd want to give myself more than enough time to get accustomed to the sound of the DAP on its own and you may end up preferring it that way.


----------



## kino lau

EVERYTHING is about changing sound signature. Listening to HD files is a change in sound signature. Choosing between HO / LO / Coax out is a change in sound signature. Different headphones are a change in sound signature. Cable choice is a change in sound signature. IEM tips change sound signature. The only thing that wouldn't be changing the sound signature would be case that you choose to carry your equipment. Even that could be questionable, due to the emotional factor. In my case, using the stock silicone case that came with my X5, or the black leather Dignis case that I purchased and have used since day one.


----------



## Dobrescu George

kino lau said:


> EVERYTHING is about changing sound signature. Listening to HD files is a change in sound signature. Choosing between HO / LO / Coax out is a change in sound signature. Different headphones are a change in sound signature. Cable choice is a change in sound signature. IEM tips change sound signature. The only thing that wouldn't be changing the sound signature would be case that you choose to carry your equipment. Even that could be questionable, due to the emotional factor. In my case, using the stock silicone case that came with my X5, or the black leather Dignis case that I purchased and have used since day one.


 
 I would beg to differ. besides signature itself, detail retrieval and other things can be changed. for example, when going from ie8 to ie800, not only signature is different, but details are much better.
  
 Similarly, when adding e12a to most portable sources, detail retrieval is much better. I really considered e12a pretty neutral, it does not colour the sound, but makes details a little more forward, as it pushes all background noise out of the sound.\\
  
 Or maybe we call signature different things, this can also be why i posted, understanding the translation of the word in different languaces might cause an incoherence of definition.


----------



## Paulus XII

E12a does wonders for jazz. Separation is superior amped than unamped with FiiO X3. For other genres difference is almost unexistant.


----------



## kino lau

dobrescu george said:


> Or maybe we call signature different things, this can also be why i posted, understanding the translation of the word in different languaces might cause an incoherence of definition.


 
 I consider signature, SQ, details, loss of details, warmer, cooler, etc...to all be the same. I'm old and stupid. I use as few different words as possible, since it really is just one persons interpretation verses another of the same word.


----------



## Dobrescu George

kino lau said:


> I consider signature, SQ, details, loss of details, warmer, cooler, etc...to all be the same. I'm old and stupid. I use as few different words as possible, since it really is just one persons interpretation verses another of the same word.


 
 i agree with you in totality. it is mostly about languace translation too. For example, in English, all there words can hold little difference, or a difference of nuance,  while in Romanian, my languace, they can hold very different meanings, some of them meaning completley different things.
  
 It is totally fine for you to do things this way, it makes your life much more beautifull not having to worry as much.
  
  


paulus xii said:


> E12a does wonders for jazz. Separation is superior amped than unamped with FiiO X3. For other genres difference is almost unexistant.


 
 ... i guess that we do not listen to the same bands, or do not use the same headphones,..
  
 For me, all generas sound better, including extremely dynamically compressed metal, like metallica, or such. I consider that e12a improoves all, even bad recorded music, like... painted in exile.


----------



## ceemsc

dmb197641 said:


> Having read a lot of topics/reviews I still can't make up my mind ...
> 
> Situation:
> I am using a DX50 --> D-ZERO MK2 --> Soundmagic HP200
> ...




FWIW I've chained my E12 to the Line-Out of my DX50.

I'm tempted to upgrade the E12 to the E12a to take advantage of the MUSES02 OPAMP but I use my rig also with the car audio & a sound desk.


----------



## Paulus XII

dobrescu george said:


> ... i guess that we do not listen to the same bands, or do not use the same headphones,..
> 
> For me, all generas sound better, including extremely dynamically compressed metal, like metallica, or such. I consider that e12a improoves all, even bad recorded music, like... painted in exile.


 
  
  
 Probably because Westone W40 has such a separation and detail that you don't notice any difference in genres like Metal, etc. Just on jazz I can hear certain instruments better and it's very ocasionally. But for me this is sufficient to make all the difference (when I listen to jazz, otherwise I don't use it).


----------



## Dobrescu George

paulus xii said:


> Probably because Westone W40 has such a separation and detail that you don't notice any difference in genres like Metal, etc. Just on jazz I can hear certain instruments better and it's very ocasionally. But for me this is sufficient to make all the difference (when I listen to jazz, otherwise I don't use it).


 
 Very interesting. With ie8, i usually need to use EQ to accept them, with e12a i do not need anymore.
  
 it seems like i should give westone a try when i will be able to. they seem nice.unfortunately they are nowhere to be tested before buying.


----------



## Paulus XII

Yes, I'm pretty shure you would love W40 or if you like basshead levels and same or even more details, UM PRO 50. I'm getting the UM PRO 50 this week, I hope : )
  
 But W40 is so supremely detailed, it extracts almost everything out a of a X3. Can't imagine it with a better source, like AP100 or so (my next purchase).


----------



## Dobrescu George

paulus xii said:


> Yes, I'm pretty shure you would love W40 or if you like basshead levels and same or even more details, UM PRO 50. I'm getting the UM PRO 50 this week, I hope : )
> 
> But W40 is so supremely detailed, it extracts almost everything out a of a X3. Can't imagine it with a better source, like AP100 or so (my next purchase).


 
 are you not waiting for fiio x5II or x7? they might be killer quality for price.
  
 But considering that ap100 is already cheap, i am curious of what you will think of it's SQ compared to x3.


----------



## Paulus XII

No longer interested due to the lack of hardware EQ : )
  
 I PM you when I get the AP100. Just don't know when after the UM PRO 50 purchase... 650€ :S


----------



## TeediuS

Just got this a couple of days ago, and if there's any concern on driving headphones as opposed to iems, shouldnt be overly concerned.  i've been using it (from a dx90) changing between ety hf5, shure 846 (blue modded filters), b&w 7, and oppo pm-1 and all sound fantastic.  certainly the sound via hugo or a ha-1 ( balanced cable) can and will sound better, for portability and price-value, i'm astounded with the quality of this wee thing.
  
 when using the p7 or oppo, 255 on dx90 line out, high-gain on the e12a, and dial around 10-11 and more than enough sound (even low-gain, wouldnt put past 1).  on the iems, usually have dx90 at 215, low gain on e12a, and similar 10-11 setting.  
  
 i have a e18, which i hardly used.  i'm not sure if it was my phone or my e18, but the usb otg connection was very very flaky, and this was before i got a dx90.  i had been using the e18 along with the dx90 recently while waiting on the e12a arriving, and there was a slight benefit, but with the e12a, it's a noticeable difference through all of these headphones.  as mentioned in many previous threads, the bass boost on this is very good, and I generally leave it on (while fighting against the internal conflict of not hearing the music as intended, but adding some extra oomph ))
  
 highly recommended.


----------



## TripBitShooter

Don't we all sometimes want bass boost but feel so bad for 'tainting' the music?  

And this thread which I made is going strong! Nearly a thousand posts! Keep up the good discussion!


----------



## Judge Buff

I just bought an E12a for my ie80s and X1 combo. Anyone have experience with this particular combination of equipment? Coming from an E11 & Mini^3, I'm pretty stoked for a new amp. I also have KC06As and VSD3S's... The latter being harder to drive than an everyday iem should be.


----------



## mdiogofs

Anyone used it with an Earsonics SM64?


----------



## Mcgeggy

judge buff said:


> I just bought an E12a for my ie80s and X1 combo. Anyone have experience with this particular combination of equipment? Coming from an E11 & Mini^3, I'm pretty stoked for a new amp. I also have KC06As and VSD3S's... The latter being harder to drive than an everyday iem should be.


 
 I just got my E12A yesterday! Ordered from a place called AC Gears, after a week of "Order Processing" I find out that it was a drop ship order supposed to come from Fiio, who apparently did not have any to ship... Cancelled and reordered from Amazon, then a few hours later I see an E12A in the classifieds here for $90! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Cancelled the Amazon order and bought that one and saved $70. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Listened to some flac Taproot last night during an hour walk, via my Sony A17 and *VSD3S*, and I have to say I was very impressed with the sound. Low gain, volume I think about halfway (loud), bass boost on. (I also have the upgraded cable on the VSD3S).


----------



## Judge Buff

mcgeggy said:


> I just got my E12A yesterday! Ordered from a place called AC Gears, after a week of "Order Processing" I find out that it was a drop ship order supposed to come from Fiio, who apparently did not have any to ship... Cancelled and reordered from Amazon, then a few hours later I see an E12A in the classifieds here for $90!  Cancelled the Amazon order and bought that one and saved $70. :happy_face1:
> 
> Listened to some flac Taproot last night during an hour walk, via my Sony A17 and *VSD3S*, and I have to say I was very impressed with the sound. Low gain, volume I think about halfway (loud), bass boost on. (I also have the upgraded cable on the VSD3S).




Great deal! I only paid $140 for mine new inc shipping, but if yours is pristine, that's a great price!


----------



## Mcgeggy

judge buff said:


> Great deal! I only paid $140 for mine new inc shipping, but if yours is pristine, that's a great price!




Yeah, it looked like the previous owner did nothing more than open the box, although I'm sure he used it. Reminds me I need to go leave some positive feedback...


----------



## riodgarp

tripbitshooter said:


> Don't we all sometimes want bass boost but feel so bad for 'tainting' the music?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I sometime use bass boost with my old e12 if only my cans is not satisfying my taste


----------



## nmatheis

By these definitions, most of our HP/IEM "taint" our music by not being strictly neutral. Personally, I prefer my music "tainted"


----------



## Judge Buff

nmatheis said:


> By these definitions, most of our HP/IEM "taint" our music by not being strictly neutral. Personally, I prefer my music "tainted"


 
 Taint that the truth?!?


----------



## Dobrescu George

there is no such thing as tainted music. 
  
 there are people who would swear that music using electronic instruments is tainted because, well, it is electronic, it was never analog.
  
 Music is best as you love it best. There are days when i simply cannot do without that bass slider on, and there are days when the bass is too much for me, and i want to have less of it. 
  
 The most important aspect is enjoyment, music is best served as you like it. 
  
 On the other hand, headphones that are not resolving enough could be called that they taint the music by not revealing the important aspects. In this aspects, fiio e12a is wonderfull!


----------



## Sound Eq

was wondering is there a big differnece between using fiio x5 and fiio e12a than using fiio x1 and fiio e12a with my shure 846
  
 which has a warmer sound combo and better bass
  
 is the bass boost on fiio e12a a good implemenation


----------



## Dobrescu George

sound eq said:


> was wondering is there a big differnece between using fiio x5 and fiio e12a than using fiio x1 and fiio e12a with my shure 846
> 
> which has a warmer sound combo and better bass
> 
> is the bass boost on fiio e12a a good implemenation


 
 You are asking?...
  
 bass boost on e12a is very good, it never distorts and adds exactly what one would want.
  
 I cannot talk about the comparation, i only own and use x5, it sounds amazing!


----------



## Sound Eq

dobrescu george said:


> You are asking?...
> 
> bass boost on e12a is very good, it never distorts and adds exactly what one would want.
> 
> I cannot talk about the comparation, i only own and use x5, it sounds amazing!


 
 just a quick can the e12a also drive audeze lcd2 headphones
  
 which has more bass boost the e12 or e12a and what is the difference between both


----------



## imackler

sound eq said:


> just a quick can the e12a also drive audeze lcd2 headphones
> 
> which has more bass boost the e12 or e12a and what is the difference between both


 
 http://www.fiio.net/en/products/33/comparisons
  
 The E12a has 4db, the E12 has 5db. 
  
 Can't answer your question about the lcd2 without doing some work though!


----------



## Dobrescu George

sound eq said:


> just a quick can the e12a also drive audeze lcd2 headphones
> 
> which has more bass boost the e12 or e12a and what is the difference between both


 
 shortly,e12 will drive them better, because it has more power. 
  
 I would get something stronger for LCD2, but i was impressed with how well they were driven by e12. 
  
 bass boost option,i liked it better on e12a, but you have to hear it to see what you like. 
  
 about LCD2 headphones, they are planar, e12 and e12a will drive hd800 just fine, if you push them to their limits, but you should try with LCD2, some people consider they need more power. YMMV


----------



## mdiogofs

Tried E12 and E12A with HD650 last week. E12A is more detailed and refined, and with better timbre. But it sounded a little too thin, E12 add much more note weight and overall body. I preferred the E12 with HD650, E12A lacks power attack to the cans.


----------



## Dobrescu George

mdiogofs said:


> Tried E12 and E12A with HD650 last week. E12A is more detailed and refined, and with better timbre. But it sounded a little too thin, E12 add much more note weight and overall body. I preferred the E12 with HD650, E12A lacks power attack to the cans.


 
 this was my experience too. Kind of.
  
 I could live with a hd800 driven by e12a, it sounds even better driven by e12, and with something like matrix mstage hpa2, it is really up to what i actually expect out of it. (using x5 as a DAC in all of the above situations.)


----------



## bms44974

dobrescu george said:


> I could live with a hd800 driven by e12a, it sounds even better driven by e12, and with something like matrix mstage hpa2, it is really up to what i actually expect out of it. (using x5 as a DAC in all of the above situations.)


 

 I could live with hd800 under almost any circumstances
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 (except when there is nothing to plug them into)


----------



## ShreyasMax

@hakushondaimao ; How do you like your B3 Pro 1 with E12A? I'm liking my pair through X3 (1st gen) already, and have just ordered E12A. I also like that you mentioned  they sound brilliant with HD598, and someone else had said they sound great with Fidelio X2, as I have the HD558, and intend to get the Fidelio X2 later this year.
  
 Sorry if you've already described the combination earlier in the thread, may my impatience please be forgiven. 
  
 Thanks & cheers


----------



## bavinck

Has anyone tried placing the e12a between headphones and the headphone jack of an AV receiver? I would like to use the bass boost of the e12a when watching movies out of my Yamaha receiver. I am going to give it a try, see what happens. I assume a volume of the receiver of 0db would mimic a (sort of) line out.


----------



## KLJTech

The headphone jack of the receiver will be powered by its own amp even if it's turned down (probably not the highest quality) so, you'll be running the signal through two amps. If you have to use your receiver you may get better results (not sure) by using the preamp outputs, if there are any, and running that to your E12A. Good luck.


----------



## bavinck

kljtech said:


> The headphone jack of the receiver will be powered by its own amp even if it's turned down (probably not the highest quality) so, you'll be running the signal through two amps. If you have to use your receiver you may get better results (not sure) by using the preamp outputs, if there are any, and running that to your E12A. Good luck.


 
 That's a good idea, but I want to try using the Silent Cinema feature of the headphone out (simulated surround for headphones).


----------



## Dobrescu George

bavinck said:


> That's a good idea, but I want to try using the Silent Cinema feature of the headphone out (simulated surround for headphones).


 
 Remember to tell us how did it go!
  
 You made me curious about how does this sound like!


----------



## bavinck

dobrescu george said:


> Remember to tell us how did it go!
> 
> You made me curious about how does this sound like!



Will do.


----------



## bavinck

So, I am pretty stunned at how well this experiment connecting my av reciever and e12a worked. Using my he500s, on low gain with the dial around 10 I am getting excellent sound. No distortion, and it sounds like the e12a is handling the planar drivers very well. Without bass boost it has a much more commanding and intense sound than the reciever ho alone, the bass boost brings in an appropriate amount of rumble that I can hear and feel spring explosions. The bb does not have any affect during scenes of talking, which means the Fiio bb is doing exactly what I wanted. I am really happy with this setup and am looking G forward to getting the kids in bed so I can mess around with some movies!


----------



## nmatheis

Yes, Fiio did a great job limiting bass boost to lower bass, so it doesn't affect the rest of the spectrum. Thumbs way up!!!


----------



## Shawn71

bavinck said:


> So, I am pretty stunned at how well this experiment connecting my av reciever and e12a worked. Using my he500s, on low gain with the dial around 10 I am getting excellent sound. No distortion, and it sounds like the e12a is handling the planar drivers very well. Without bass boost it has a much more commanding and intense sound than the reciever ho alone, the bass boost brings in an appropriate amount of rumble that I can hear and feel spring explosions. The bb does not have any affect during scenes of talking, which means the Fiio bb is doing exactly what I wanted. I am really happy with this setup and am looking G forward to getting the kids in bed so I can mess around with some movies!


 

 Ok, so you used a 6.3mm (front-receiver end) to 3.5mm (fiio end) cable? or the LO (RCA) to fiio?.....Yes the BB clearly targets the Low Freq Effect.....


----------



## Shawn71

nmatheis said:


> Yes, Fiio did a great job limiting bass boost to lower bass, so it doesn't affect the rest of the spectrum. Thumbs way up!!!


 

 True!....


----------



## nmatheis

The super clean bass boost was one of the deciding factors in keeping E12A over Cayin C5, which has a much warmer bass boost.


----------



## bavinck

shawn71 said:


> Ok, so you used a 6.3mm (front-receiver end) to 3.5mm (fiio end) cable? or the LO (RCA) to fiio?.....Yes the BB clearly targets the Low Freq Effect.....



6.3mm ho on reciever to 3.5mm line in on e12a. Works great. The Yamaha reciever is doing a bunch of surround sound processing so I set the reciever to - 3db to avoid any clipping from processing. Truly sounds wonderful. The he500s were literally shaking on my head during some explosions last night in star trek into darkness.


----------



## Shawn71

bavinck said:


> 6.3mm ho on reciever to 3.5mm line in on e12a. Works great. The Yamaha reciever is doing a bunch of surround sound processing so I set the reciever to - 3db to avoid any clipping from processing. Truly sounds wonderful. The he500s were literally shaking on my head during some explosions last night in star trek into darkness.


 

 Yeah the Yamaha AV receiver's different modes of DSP is truly enjoyable.....And I do like the HK's Logic7 too.


----------



## Tuneslover

I had trouble finding one in Canada so I ended up having one shipped from Japan ($20 Cdn) and 1 month delivery.  You are right my E12a/X3ii stack fits perfectly in a nice compact pouch, although I do need to disconnect the LO cable from the E12a if I want to zip it shut all the way (no biggie).  The side zipped compartment is perfect for the microSD's.  Thanks for sharing! 





> Originally Posted by *KLJTech* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I found the a great soft case yesterday at Best Buy, the *Lowepro Newport 30 *and it has the loop on the back so it can be carried on your belt/hip. It's pretty much a perfect fit and as small as you can possibly go with the two stacked together. I've ordered a few different camera bags from Amazon but never one that fit this well. My goal was to go as small as I could but still have plenty of room for the X5 and E12A...plus it has a hidden zippered flat pocket in front that you could use to store your IEM's. The Lowepro Newport 30 was $10.
> 
> If I can find the time I'll post a pic of the bag next to the stack and then with them in the bag.


----------



## KLJTech

I'm glad you like the bag, I use mine just about every day. I only carry it on my belt when I'm going to use my X5 & E12A so I simply leave the very top open/unzipped so I can plug in my IEM's yet there's no way for the stack to fall out. If I recall correctly you can zip it closed if you're using the L17 right angle line-out cable but I've been trying several different cables lately and almost all of them require me to leave the top open. Enjoy it, it makes carrying your DAP and amp stack a lot easier.


----------



## IronPaul

judge buff said:


> I just bought an E12a for my ie80s and X1 combo. Anyone have experience with this particular combination of equipment? Coming from an E11 & Mini^3, I'm pretty stoked for a new amp. I also have KC06As and VSD3S's... The latter being harder to drive than an everyday iem should be.


 
 How was the leap from e11k to e12a using your ie80 and x1? im looking for an AMP and been thinking about E12A.


----------



## imackler

Anyone interested in trading a 1st Gen X3 for a Fiii e12a? Pm me.


----------



## Dobrescu George

ironpaul said:


> How was the leap from e11k to e12a using your ie80 and x1? im looking for an AMP and been thinking about E12A.


 
 ...Big...
  
 I think that it is a little unfair comparation, e12a has the muses op-amps, which are by far some of the best opamps possible, it is hard to match them.
  
 Also, if you have x1, you could try to sell your x1 and get an x5, you could get better SQ, based on what you are looking for.
  
 For example, even though e12a is for iems i use it more with big headphones than with my ie8s, because ie8s are my portable setup. I take them with me when i go out, it is a little unconvenient to take a stack in some situations YMMV.
  
 The difference in SQ is big, e12a is unique in it's nature, it makes the background black. You hear only what is in the recording. You get better soundstage, a smooth treble and very good mids. I had written a review for it. Comparing it to e11k is a bit unfair, as they have different uses.


----------



## IronPaul

dobrescu george said:


> ...Big...
> 
> I think that it is a little unfair comparation, e12a has the muses op-amps, which are by far some of the best opamps possible, it is hard to match them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for the very good input!


----------



## hakushondaimao

ironpaul said:


> How was the leap from e11k to e12a using your ie80 and x1? im looking for an AMP and been thinking about E12A.


 

 I had the E11K when I first bought my X3 1st gen. The E11K did add volume to the X3, but did nothing for sound quality or sound stage (other than adding some bass). I traded up to the E12A and... Wow! Big improvement in clarity and space, and amazing implementation of bass boost (focused on sub-bass rather than mid-bass, and hence not bleeding into other frequencies. Superb with IEMs.
  
 Now I've just picked up the Audio Technica ATH-R70x, which are open headphones rated at 470 ohms. Was worried about whether the E12A would drive them okay, and am VERY impressed with the sonic quality (high gain, volume at 6/10). I am more and more convinced that the E12A is a very solid all-rounder, and not JUST an IEM amp!


----------



## nmatheis

E12A is a great amp for the price if you're looking for something smooth and musical hakushondaimao. It's not what I'd call an "energetic" amp, so I find it pairs well with pretty much whatever you throw at them and enables an engaging, satisfying and relaxed listening experience.


----------



## IronPaul

hakushondaimao said:


> I had the E11K when I first bought my X3 1st gen. The E11K did add volume to the X3, but did nothing for sound quality or sound stage (other than adding some bass). I traded up to the E12A and... Wow! Big improvement in clarity and space, and amazing implementation of bass boost (focused on sub-bass rather than mid-bass, and hence not bleeding into other frequencies. Superb with IEMs.
> 
> Now I've just picked up the Audio Technica ATH-R70x, which are open headphones rated at 470 ohms. Was worried about whether the E12A would drive them okay, and am VERY impressed with the sonic quality (high gain, volume at 6/10). I am more and more convinced that the E12A is a very solid all-rounder, and not JUST an IEM amp!


 
 Need to save up for E12A! Thanks


----------



## ReizeiMako

ironpaul said:


> Need to save up for E12A! Thanks


 

 You won't regret. A really good amp indeed, especially for IEMs


----------



## Dobrescu George

reizeimako said:


> You won't regret. A really good amp indeed, especially for IEMs


 
 I would even say that it is one of the best portable amps regardless of price or of the type of headphones/iems. I love it's sound with my full headphones too!
  
 (though i must accept that i do not have anything at 300Ohm or above)


----------



## mdiogofs

nmatheis said:


> E12A is a great amp for the price if you're looking for something smooth and musical @hakushondaimao. It's not what I'd call an "energetic" amp, so I find it pairs well with pretty much whatever you throw at them and enables an engaging, satisfying and relaxed listening experience.


 
 Can you tell me one that can be considered energetic (<500$)?


----------



## nmatheis

mdiogofs said:


> Can you tell me one that can be considered energetic (<500$)?




I found the Cayin C5 more energetic in comparison to the E12A.


----------



## Dobrescu George

nmatheis said:


> I found the Cayin C5 more energetic in comparison to the E12A.


 
 I think that i need to ask what you call energetic? I do not have access to C5 so i cannot know how to put it in my mind.
  
 Like ifi idsd? like Hugo?
  
 Bright? Powerfull? like e12 driving low impedance headphones? 
  
 Do not get me wrong, i want to understand your point of view, but i cannot as i am right now.


----------



## nmatheis

More energy/sparkle up top and more 3D soundstage compared to E12A. 

Haven't heard iDSD or Hugo and can't comment on those.


----------



## Dobrescu George

nmatheis said:


> More energy/sparkle up top and more 3D soundstage compared to E12A.
> 
> Haven't heard iDSD or Hugo and can't comment on those.


 
 Ah. I think i would had loved getting those amps too then. 
  
 E12A has enough treble spark for Ie800 for example, but more soundstage?.. I would be all over an amp that can do even more than E12A. Compared to x5, e12a, is an open world, a world of pleasure. If i can get even more soundstage, that is my next purchase
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Nor iDsd or Hugo adds soundstage. Instead, they are more precise and clear. 
  
 I think that all three devices sound amazing on each's own.


----------



## WitzyZed

Super happy to hear the R70x + E12A fairs well together, they were 2 wishlist items I was afraid wouldn't comply with each other..


----------



## nmatheis

The Cayin C5 sounds really nice Dobrescu George, but it's downside for me was twofold. 

1. It's low gain was too high for sensitive IEM. This made a comfortable listening level just after the point where channel imbalance stops. And it gets really loud really quickly. 

2. It's bass boost was too broad spectrum, adding warmth instead of just adding low bass thump. 

If the Cayin C5 had lower output with low gain and more surgical bass boost implementation, I would've kept it. As it is, I'm happy with E12A for an easy grab n go amp and E12 DIY when I want to take the time to tweak or need something more powerful.


----------



## snellemin

The JDSlabs Ultrashort cable is really short.  Saves a lot of space for sure.  I just think it looks cool with the E12A and Iphone 4S.


----------



## Dobrescu George

snellemin said:


> The JDSlabs Ultrashort cable is really short.  Saves a lot of space for sure.  I just think it looks cool with the E12A and Iphone 4S.


 
 I wonder if it makes any difference in SQ.
  
 It seems shorter than i would want it, sometimes there is more distance between the jacks, it would not work for all devices out there.


----------



## snellemin

dobrescu george said:


> I wonder if it makes any difference in SQ.
> 
> It seems shorter than i would want it, sometimes there is more distance between the jacks, it would not work for all devices out there.


 
  
 It did make a small difference in SQ.  But it's not a nite and day difference.  After a minute you forget what the old cable sounds like.
  
 The cable is longer than it looks.


----------



## ShreyasMax

snellemin said:


> It did make a small difference in SQ.  But it's not a nite and day difference.  After a minute you forget what the old cable sounds like.
> 
> The cable is longer than it looks.




Say, aren't you double-amping in this case? Why not use the LOD out of the iPhone to the amp? I know that the iPhone 4 sounds good by itself, but I'm sure the audio output through the lod to the amp will sound noticeably better. I use the fiio L9 for this purpose, connected to my old iPod classic.


----------



## snellemin

I can barely tell a difference with the L9, even playing bass heavy Flac.  I like the L11 with my own cables better, but it's not as compact.


----------



## EriCCirE

Hey guys, I have the E12 here as well. I use it to amplify the signal of my ipod before the fm modulator. Is it detrimental to leave the power always hooked up? The 12V output from my truck is always on (even with the truck off) so basically the unit is plugged in 24/7. Am I doing damage to the amp?


----------



## bavinck

ericcire said:


> Hey guys, I have the E12 here as well. I use it to amplify the signal of my ipod before the fm modulator. Is it detrimental to leave the power always hooked up? The 12V output from my truck is always on (even with the truck off) so basically the unit is plugged in 24/7. Am I doing damage to the amp?


 
 Shouldnt hurt the battery, but it will impart noise into the sound.


----------



## EriCCirE

bavinck said:


> Shouldnt hurt the battery, but it will impart noise into the sound.


 
 Wow, thanks for the lightning fast response!
  
 My truck has stock speakers, with the addition of a LOC going to an amplifier powering a sub. I do not notice any added noise when power is plugged in so thank you for giving me peace of mind!


----------



## bavinck

ericcire said:


> Wow, thanks for the lightning fast response!
> 
> My truck has stock speakers, with the addition of a LOC going to an amplifier powering a sub. I do not notice any added noise when power is plugged in so thank you for giving me peace of mind!


 
 I would recommend draining the battery once in a while (like a month), just to make sure it is being used. Pretty sure Fiio recommends that.


----------



## EriCCirE

bavinck said:


> I would recommend draining the battery once in a while (like a month), just to make sure it is being used. Pretty sure Fiio recommends that.


 
 Roger, typically I forget to plug the amp back in after using my phone charger or other charger weekly so this doesn't seem to be an issue. Thanks again!


----------



## bavinck

Np, enjoy the amp!


----------



## snellemin

Been using the E12A with an Hifiman 400i and it plays it loud enough.  Sound volume is at near max on hi-gain.  Amazing little amp.


----------



## iwing88

hi all, i just got myself a E12A. btw what cable do you recommend from iphone 6 to E12A?
 is the stock cable good enough?
  
 thanks


----------



## Dobrescu George

iwing88 said:


> hi all, i just got myself a E12A. btw what cable do you recommend from iphone 6 to E12A?
> is the stock cable good enough?
> 
> thanks


 
 You would need a line out cable. Someone who has experience with iphone 6 should advice further, as I really do not know how it works, and what cables come with it, and how or if you have line out with iphones.


----------



## iwing88

dobrescu george said:


> You would need a line out cable. Someone who has experience with iphone 6 should advice further, as I really do not know how it works, and what cables come with it, and how or if you have line out with iphones.


 
 hi 
 iphone line out by 3.5mm to e12a 3.5mm
 just like other smart phones and DAP
 thanks


----------



## iwing88

hi is the fiio L16 / L17 good enough? or you have better recommendation .
  
thanks


----------



## Dobrescu George

iwing88 said:


> hi is the fiio L16 / L17 good enough? or you have better recommendation .
> 
> thanks


 
 I think that you are using headphone out of the iphone that way. 
  
 As I said, I really think that you should ask an iphone owner these things, as Iphones work differently from other DAPs, when you connect an amp.
  
 If the 3.5 mm can be used as a line out, not headphone out, the cable that came with E12A should be more than enough.


----------



## iwing88

hi 
 thanks. yup i am using headphone out for now. not sure is there any different if i use the lightning out to 3.5mm E12A. need to find out from the iphone user.
  
 Thanks for the advice again.


----------



## WitzyZed

iwing88 said:


> hi
> thanks. yup i am using headphone out for now. not sure is there any different if i use the lightning out to 3.5mm E12A. need to find out from the iphone user.
> 
> Thanks for the advice again.



It's not as convenient in a stacked config, but the lightning to 30 pin apple sells would work with any fiio 30pin to 3.5mm. Do wish they made in the nice L16/L17 style, though.
Also you'd be using the DAC chip in the adapter, some wolfson 85xx something something chip. There's a thread on it.


----------



## iwing88

Thanks again. Btw can I just get the after market lightning to 30pin adapter ? Can I just bypass the amp only. Thanks


----------



## snellemin

iwing88 said:


> hi is the fiio L16 / L17 good enough? or you have better recommendation .
> 
> thanks


 
  
 The L16 and L17 cables will work for you.  They sound a bit different than black cables from FIIO.  You can also get the really short cable from JDSlabs.


----------



## WitzyZed

iwing88 said:


> Thanks again. Btw can I just get the after market lightning to 30pin adapter ? Can I just bypass the amp only. Thanks



well any aftermarket lightning to 30pin has to have something that converts the digital signal to an analog one, otherwise all it does is provide power, no audio.
so if you're trying to go cheaper than apple's $29 or $39 adapters i can't say what results you'll get. If you're trying to go more expensive, I'll still say the same.
(Edit)
Just PM me if you have any questions, I don't want to derail the thread.


----------



## palermo

Got E12A for couple months but still have no DAP, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thinking about Fiio's lineup but not decide yet. I tried X3ii + E12A at local store but this combination defeated by lotoo paw 5000 in all aspect of SQ


----------



## iwing88

Hmm may be I just get a x5 with e12a. I have try iphone headphone out . It sound a bit diff. Better bass with the bass boost on. I am using ck100 pro.

I would rather use the phone dac rather than the 30 pin adapter. 30pin will not sound better than the iPhone itself. Just my opinion.

Thanks


----------



## snellemin

I use an older Iphone 4s with my E12A.  I can barely tell a difference between the headphone out and the 30 pin adapter.  
  
 Here's a pic of what the E12A is driving today.  I have the bass boost on, bass mode and SS surround on in the Kaisertone app.  Notice that I'm using the small JDSlabs cable.


----------



## iwing88

Hi guys
Thanks for feedback. It is very useful. Ok I think I will go headphone out from my i6 . Less headache for now. Until I get a dap later. Not sure which dap to get x5 or x3k


----------



## Dobrescu George

iwing88 said:


> Hi guys
> Thanks for feedback. It is very useful. Ok I think I will go headphone out from my i6 . Less headache for now. Until I get a dap later. Not sure which dap to get x5 or x3k


 
 If you need more storage space, get X5, you get 2Xmicrosds, and line out sounds a little better than x3K. They use different DACs. But mainly for storage you should get x5


----------



## iwing88

dobrescu george said:


> If you need more storage space, get X5, you get 2Xmicrosds, and line out sounds a little better than x3K. They use different DACs. But mainly for storage you should get x5


 
 ok thanks again.
  
 I had done some experiments on the E12A with my xonar sound card.
 RCA out from xonar >E12A>headphone.
 sound good compare direct out from xonar headphone jack.
 not sure if anyone have done that.
  
 cheers


----------



## Dobrescu George

iwing88 said:


> ok thanks again.
> 
> I had done some experiments on the E12A with my xonar sound card.
> RCA out from xonar >E12A>headphone.
> ...


 
 I think that you bypassed the internal headphone amplifier found in your Xonar. E12a will sound better this way, double amping introduces distortions. 
  
 I hope that you will fiind your perfect sound! For me, E12a was the best addition possible to an already great X5.


----------



## justrest

Anyone can compare Vorzüge Pure II vs E12A?


----------



## opeth bodom

My e12a just arrived today. When I use it do I set my iPhone volume at 100% and adjust my volume off of the fiio?


----------



## bavinck

opeth bodom said:


> My e12a just arrived today. When I use it do I set my iPhone volume at 100% and adjust my volume off of the fiio?




That's right, you got the idea.


----------



## opeth bodom

bavinck said:


> That's right, you got the idea.




And low gain correct?


----------



## bavinck

Depends on the headphones, adjust gain as required for volume. I would start with low gain, if need be move to high.


----------



## nmatheis

opeth bodom said:


> My e12a just arrived today. When I use it do I set my iPhone volume at 100% and adjust my volume off of the fiio?




I'd actually go to 100% on your iPhone and then back off 2 clicks.


----------



## hakushondaimao

nmatheis said:


> I'd actually go to 100% on your iPhone and then back off 2 clicks.


 

 Ditto @nmatheis.


----------



## opeth bodom

bavinck said:


> Depends on the headphones, adjust gain as required for volume. I would start with low gain, if need be move to high.




Grado 325is


----------



## iwing88

Ya same here. Btw u connected via heaohphone or 30pin adapter?


----------



## opeth bodom

Headphone. Couldn't find adapter for iPhone 6 plus.


----------



## iwing88

opeth bodom said:


> Headphone. Couldn't find adapter for iPhone 6 plus.


 
 u need to buy a lightning to 30pin adapter and fiio L9 to connect the 30 pin adapter.
 but i only out from iphone 6 headphone. no prob at all. too many connection on the 30pin and it suppose to by pass the convert digital to analog. but iphone itself do better job then that small piece of adapter.
  
 best result still get a dap then you can connect the e12a with it.


----------



## nmatheis

iwing88 said:


> u need to buy a lightning to 30pin adapter and fiio L9 to connect the 30 pin adapter.
> but i only out from iphone 6 headphone. no prob at all. too many connection on the 30pin and it suppose to by pass the convert digital to analog. but iphone itself do better job then that small piece of adapter.
> 
> best result still get a dap then you can connect the e12a with it.




Most reports I've read indicate minimal SQ increase when using iPhone's LO vs HO, so it might not be worth the extra hassle of all the cables. 

Now if you were to get an AMP/DAC, I could see it being worth the hassle...


----------



## bavinck

You guys worried about clipping out of the iPhone? Never had a problem with that on my note 3.


----------



## nmatheis

bavinck said:


> You guys worried about clipping out of the iPhone? Never had a problem with that on my note 3.




Maybe a little bit of "just in case" + a touch less volume out = more usable pot for IEM.


----------



## opeth bodom

You'll have to excuse me but the last couple posts have gone over my head. What would be the best course of action here to improve my setup?


----------



## iwing88

Just out from the iphone Ho. Simple. I have no clipping sound. Also u can try out those dap they sound really good compare to smart phones in the market.


----------



## nmatheis

Yes, iPhone headphone jack at nearly full (or full) volume -> E12A is just fine.

How're you liking it with your Grados? I've never tried any Grados before.


----------



## opeth bodom

I'm loving it with the Grados. Just adds a simple little punch to the sound making it a little fuller adding some bass. 

I was lost when you guys were talking lightning to 30 pin to fiio.


----------



## nmatheis

opeth bodom said:


> I'm loving it with the Grados. Just adds a simple little punch to the sound making it a little fuller adding some bass.
> 
> I was lost when you guys were talking lightning to 30 pin to fiio.




Glad you're enjoying it. E12A is a great little amp!


----------



## bavinck

Probably these guys are right and put your iPhone to max, then back off one or two clicks.


----------



## nmatheis

bavinck said:


> Probably these guys are right and put your iPhone to max, then back off one or two clicks.


----------



## WitzyZed

V Photo Bump V


I'm actively participating in this burn-in process, can't help myself!


----------



## iwing88

cool!


----------



## meraias

iwing88 said:


> ok thanks again.
> 
> I had done some experiments on the E12A with my xonar sound card.
> RCA out from xonar >E12A>headphone.
> ...


 

 Elo iwing88,
 You will be surprised when I say this, but I own the AK240 and I still like my SE846 better through the E12A than directly through the AK240. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Not that its more detail than the original output of the AK240, in fact its less detailed, sounds less extended, and the sound stage is narrower, but you know, my taste for the synergy between the 846 and E12A ruled out these positive attributes i mentioned earlier. The relatively warmer, smoother, richer and better body sounding E12A, to my preference makes my 846 much more musically expressive and enjoyable. It sucks me into the music especially vocal mids more with the E12A. This is after few months of using it, and my impression had not change ever since.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 to answer the cable quality, I believe you will find the fiio cable better in every way than the stock cable, be it resolution, stage, or low frequency response. This I can say as much since I compared it long time ago. Although saying that, the cable will enrich the warmness of sound, so if adding warmness is not something you think you will appreciate, I suggest trying the RHA 3.5-3.5 interconnect. It sounds quite the opposite of the Fiio cable, and at a very affordable price. If adding more detail, transparency, and sound stage is your aim instead of adding better lower frequency response and better body and a smoother texture, get the RHA. The fact that Fiio cable conforms more to the Fiio house sound as a whole remains true.


----------



## iwing88

meraias said:


> Elo iwing88,
> You will be surprised when I say this, but I own the AK240 and I still like my SE846 better through the E12A than directly through the AK240.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 ah ok thanks again. ok i will try it. great feedback.


----------



## meraias

iwing88 said:


> ah ok thanks again. ok i will try it. great feedback.


 
  
 Welcome!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 enjoy your E12A and be happy using it with your Iphone for as long as you own them. E12A is a great little amp that fits in your palm.
 I wasn't sure if the line out and the headphone out really affects too much of its characteristics, personally I wouldn't care, most of the time I use my E12A with the headphone out of my DAP since the gain is still too high for me with the 846, so to lower the volume further below the channel balance point of the E12A knob, I had to resort to the headphone out of my DAP. Does it degrade sound quality? I dont know, not too noticeable I guess, I think the cables would make more of a difference. So really, just enjoy the music with the amp iwing : )


----------



## mrmonday

Would this amp be able to power HE-400s and SRH1540 properly or would the E12 be a better option? I was leaning toward the E12A because SQ is supposedly better and it would work better with my IEMs.


----------



## snellemin

I use the E12A to power the 400i model and it's enough clean power for work. Plenty loud for that little amp.  If you like subbass heavy stuff like I do at times, then even a E12 is not going to be enough to get the most out of those nice planars.


----------



## cnumb3033

Hey man, saw this thread- just picked up my FiiO E12A, and I am desperate to make it portable (considering a few DIY options if it comes to that, but really don't want to go down that road. Any chance you could point me in the right direction? It would be extremely appreciated!! Thank you for your time!


----------



## nmatheis

cnumb3033 said:


> Hey man, saw this thread- just picked up my FiiO E12A, and I am desperate to make it portable (considering a few DIY options if it comes to that, but really don't want to go down that road. Any chance you could point me in the right direction? It would be extremely appreciated!! Thank you for your time!


----------



## Mr Trev

I read back in the ipod ssd thread (I think) where somebody put an e6 into the ipod housing. Granted the e12a is much bigger…


----------



## nmatheis

E6 is pretty small. Seems like iPod case would be bigger (by iPod I'm assuming iPod Classic).

Sheesh, just get a man-bag like me, and it's all good


----------



## Mr Trev

Thinking back, it was an imod. The guy took the output from the caps and fed it straight into the e6 - which was unclothed and placed into the ipod housing making an all in one unit.
  
 I've often wondered what it would be like to take my x3 & e12a and fuse them into a single housing with a unified battery.


----------



## ozrayyau

I do feel it's a very good for my AKG3003i


----------



## cnumb3033

Hahaha, okay, thank you; so no, there is no case currently in production for the FiiOE12A?
  
 Thank you gentleman


----------



## KLJTech

cnumb3033 said:


> Hahaha, okay, thank you; so no, there is no case currently in production for the FiiOE12A?
> 
> Thank you gentleman


 
  
*If *a soft zippered camera case that will hold not only the X5/X5 II and the E12A/E12 while stacked works for you, then I would recommend Lowepro Newport 30. The Lowepro has a loop on the back that allows you to carry it on your belt or you could clip it to a belt loop. You simply unzip the top to allow access to the volume control or if you need to lift out the player for whatever reason. Even when it's open at the top your stack is held safe on both sides and the bottom...I use it every day for my X5 II and did use it for the X5 and E12A and it works great...beats trying to fit the gear into your pants pocket. The Lowepro also has a small zippered pocket in the front that can hold your IEM's or MicroSD cards.  Hope this helps....good luck!
  
  
 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lowepro-newport-30-camera-case-black-slate-gray/6314939.p?id=1218727578763&skuId=6314939


----------



## cnumb3033

Awesome, thanks very much for the detailed info!


----------



## KLJTech

No problem at all.
  
 I posted a pic of the case with the FiiO stack inside it here on one of the threads, there's only about 1/2"-3/4" free space at the top once you put the stack inside. I was looking for a case that didn't have a lot of extra space, so with some line-out cables you may need to unplug one end or leave the bag unzipped at the top for extra room. I know that the JDS Labs Ultra Short cable fits with the bag zipped closed. It's never been an issue for me, but I did want to give you guys the heads up. If I'm using one fo the FiiO L16 PCOCC-A cables I need to unplug one side. 
  
 When I'm on the go I leave the top open anyway so that my headphones/IEM's can stay plugged in or for adjusting the volume. I hope it works out well for you.


----------



## Morales

Sorry for the question but Is the Fiio e12 "Mont Blanc" a DAC and a amplificator for headphones?  or is only a headphone amplificator? I have the Fiio x3 with terrifics sony headphones, I´m buying the HD 650 Sennheiser and I will like to get the fiio e12 to use it like a DAC for my fiio x3, I know fiio x3 have a DAC chip inside but for computers. Please some help. Thanks for your time.


----------



## Dobrescu George

morales said:


> Sorry for the question but Is the Fiio e12 "Mont Blanc" a DAC and a amplificator for headphones?  or is only a headphone amplificator? I have the Fiio x3 with terrifics sony headphones, I´m buying the HD 650 Sennheiser and I will like to get the fiio e12 to use it like a DAC for my fiio x3, I know fiio x3 have a DAC chip inside but for computers. Please some help. Thanks for your time.


 
 X3 has a DAC and an AMP.
  
 E12A is an amp. IT only amplifies the signal coming out of X3's DAC.
  
 It works nice with Hd650 or most headphones, but you might want to test if you like the sound, as some want more power with hd650 in particular.


----------



## KLJTech

morales said:


> Sorry for the question but Is the Fiio e12 "Mont Blanc" a DAC and a amplificator for headphones?  or is only a headphone amplificator? I have the Fiio x3 with terrifics sony headphones, I´m buying the HD 650 Sennheiser and I will like to get the fiio e12 to use it like a DAC for my fiio x3, I know fiio x3 have a DAC chip inside but for computers. Please some help. Thanks for your time.


 
  
 The E12 is more powerful than the E12A, but I've found the E12A to be the better sounding amp. If you ever plan to use IEM's as well you make want to consider the E12A as it has a lower noise floor and a more open sound. If not, the E12 will work well for you.  
  
 I can tell you that the E12A is a very nice upgrade for the X3 as it allows you to hear the DAC section of the X3 with a better amp, and this makes it a more neutral and spacious sounding setup. I thought the E12A improved the X3 more than FiiO's other DAP's, yet it still has the ability to help the newer version DAP's as well. The E12A is marketed as an IEM amp, but it will drive most (not all) headphones very well and sound better than the onboard amp of the X3 while doing so. I think the amp section of the X3 while powerful, holds the X3 back from sounding it's best. Good luck!


----------



## Morales

Thanks. Now I understand Fiio x3 has a AMP DAC already. Thanks again.


----------



## Morales

So the Fiio E12A and Fiio E12 are not DAC´S, is it ok? They are only amplifiers. Am I right?


----------



## nmatheis

morales said:


> So the Fiio E12A and Fiio E12 are not DAC´S, is it ok? They are only amplifiers. Am I right?




Yup, only amps


----------



## KLJTech

morales said:


> So the Fiio E12A and Fiio E12 are not DAC´S, is it ok? They are only amplifiers. Am I right?


 
  
 Yes, amps that you can use with your X3 via its Line-Out and that way you're using the E12A or E12 for amplification rather than the amp built into the X3. The Line-Out bypasses the amp built into the DAP.


----------



## KLJTech

I'm sorry nmatheis, I had the reply open and didn't know that you had already answered his question.


----------



## nmatheis

Absolutely no problem KLJTech!


----------



## WitzyZed

Bye-Bye straps!
The bumpers kept moving around on me.
I know newer e12A shipments started coming with a larger silicon bumper/pad/thing, but this does the job so nicely.


----------



## chefboyarlee

I have a B&W P7 with a iPod classic 7gen coming. I also have a cayin c5 coming? Has anyone used both the e12a and the cayin c5 ? Preferences?


----------



## nmatheis

chefboyarlee said:


> I have a B&W P7 with a iPod classic 7gen coming. I also have a cayin c5 coming? Has anyone used both the e12a and the cayin c5 ? Preferences?




Yes, I've used / owned both. 

I still own the E12A but no longer own the C5. This was because I like to use an amp with IEM sometimes, and the C5's low gain setting is ridiculously powerful. I could only use the volume knob between 2 and 3. Any quieter and I couldn't hear the music properly. Any louder, and I was afraid for my ears. 

I'm also not a big fan of the C5's bass boost. To my ears, it really warms up the sound, bleeding into the mids. Makes the bass sound slower. Makes make vocals sound different than I'm expecting. Not my cup of tea. It can be okay with colder, bass-light HP / IEM, though. 

All that said, I think the C5's default sound is fantastic and I now regret selling mine, as I could've kept it for use with more demanding HP and just been really carefu when using with IEM. 

I know we're in the E12A thread and all, but I recently had another chance to listen to the C5. It was just as good as I remembered and confirmed my regrets selling it. 

What you get with the C5: more bass (with a bit of mid-bass focus) and treble energy and larger soundstage and massive driving power

What you get with E12A: more linear, smoother sound with more intimate soundstage and a lot less (but still adequate) driving power


----------



## AudiophileTL

So I am sure that this question has been answered in here, but unfortunately I do not have the time to look through the whole thread. I am wondering f I should get the E12 or E12A. I am currently using a Luxury & Precision L5, with various IEMs and a set of cans. The L5 powers my IEMs pretty well but not the cans. If I plan on using mostly IEMs, but don't really feel like I will need the amp for the IEMs (maybe sometimes) which one should I get?


----------



## nmatheis

audiophiletl said:


> So I am sure that this question has been answered in here, but unfortunately I do not have the time to look through the whole thread. I am wondering f I should get the E12 or E12A. I am currently using a Luxury & Precision L5, with various IEMs and a set of cans. The L5 powers my IEMs pretty well but not the cans. If I plan on using mostly IEMs, but don't really feel like I will need the amp for the IEMs (maybe sometimes) which one should I get?


 

 The L5 looks pretty sexy, but I've read up on it and it does seem underpowered.
  
 It might help us help you better if you let us know what cans you want to drive and what sound signature and features you're after.


----------



## AudiophileTL

Ok don't laugh but the cans I have right now are the WeSc RZA premium headphones I bought when they first came out (huge Wu-Tang/RZA fan) and I liked them better than the AudioTechnica ATH-M50 I had at the time. They are pretty warm sounding headphones, giving a more comprehensive and analogue sound compared to the more detailed ATHs. I listen to a lot of classic rock and Hip-Hop, so while I like the more warm analogue sound for classic rock the more detailed and clear sound might be better for the electro-hip-hop/EDM sound I also listen to a lot. Bass is also huge for me but I don't like it to bleed or over-power everything else, I guess I like U shaped sound signature more than anything. 

Also the IEMs I will be using will be the Sont MH1c and the Vusonic GR07 Bass Edition, when I get them that is. But I am more worried about powering the cans


----------



## riodgarp

audiophiletl said:


> Ok don't laugh but the cans I have right now are the WeSc RZA premium headphones I bought when they first came out (huge Wu-Tang/RZA fan) and I liked them better than the AudioTechnica ATH-M50 I had at the time. They are pretty warm sounding headphones, giving a more comprehensive and analogue sound compared to the more detailed ATHs. I listen to a lot of classic rock and Hip-Hop, so while I like the more warm analogue sound for classic rock the more detailed and clear sound might be better for the electro-hip-hop/EDM sound I also listen to a lot. Bass is also huge for me but I don't like it to bleed or over-power everything else, I guess I like U shaped sound signature more than anything.
> 
> Also the IEMs I will be using will be the Sont MH1c and the Vusonic GR07 Bass Edition, when I get them that is. But I am more worried about powering the cans


 
 why must laugh, audio is personal taste,  if your ears not super sensitive for hiss then e12  can give you power


----------



## nmatheis

audiophiletl said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Just looked up the specs for those headphones. You don't really need an amp for them. They look pretty easy to drive for ful size cans. Those specs look like they're meant to be driven by a smartphone, honestly. 

That doesn't mean you won't prefer an amp with them, but you shouldn't need one with the L5 to drive them properly. 

Just my two cents...


----------



## AudiophileTL

nmatheis said:


> Just looked up the specs for those headphones. You don't really need an amp for them. They look pretty easy to drive for ful size cans. Those specs look like they're meant to be driven by a smartphone, honestly.
> 
> That doesn't mean you won't prefer an amp with them, but you shouldn't need one with the L5 to drive them properly.
> 
> Just my two cents...


 
 I can definitely see that, I was actually surprised when I put them on and felt like they needed considerably more power, maybe its just because I have been using a FiiO E07K amp/DAC which gets pretty loud and is full bodied. By the way, since that has a DAC I can't use it as just an amp can I?
  
 Also, I remember seeing a couple of threads on here mocking the RZA headphones so I guess I just assumed headphones created by "rappers" were a faux pas on here, thanks for proving me wrong.


----------



## Fadem

audiophiletl said:


> I can definitely see that, I was actually surprised when I put them on and felt like they needed considerably more power, maybe its just because I have been using a FiiO E07K amp/DAC which gets pretty loud and is full bodied. By the way, since that has a DAC I can't use it as just an amp can I?
> 
> Also, I remember seeing a couple of threads on here mocking the RZA headphones so I guess I just assumed headphones created by "rappers" were a faux pas on here, thanks for proving me wrong.


 

 The E07K has a line-in (next to the USB input) so you can use it as an amplifier only.


----------



## nmatheis

fadem said:


> The E07K has a line-in (next to the USB input) so you can use it as an amplifier only.




But seriously AudiophileTL, the L5 can't drive those cans properly? Seems like it should be fine on low gain. If not, then surely high gain would get them pumpin'! Or is the L5 that underpowered???


----------



## AudiophileTL

nmatheis said:


> But seriously AudiophileTL, the L5 can't drive those cans properly? Seems like it should be fine on low gain. If not, then surely high gain would get them pumpin'! Or is the L5 that underpowered???




Admittedly, I do not have much experience with the portable end of hi-fi audio but going from listening to those cans with the Fiio E07K and even Fiio E6 with a tablet and those headphones to just the L5 they sound considerably underpowered. I also almost never turned to Fiio up to full volume and have the gain on the middle setting (0 db I believe). This was a complete surprise to me as I had read the entire L5 thread and hardly anyone mentioned using an Amp with it. 

I am going to try to use the Fiio E07K as just an amp with it and see how that sounds, which is a shame because I assume the amp in the L5 would be higher quality.


----------



## ShreyasMax

audiophiletl said:


> Admittedly, I do not have much experience with the portable end of hi-fi audio but going from listening to those cans with the Fiio E07K and even Fiio E6 with a tablet and those headphones to just the L5 they sound considerably underpowered. I also almost never turned to Fiio up to full volume and have the gain on the middle setting (0 db I believe). This was a complete surprise to me as I had read the entire L5 thread and hardly anyone mentioned using an Amp with it.
> 
> I am going to try to use the Fiio E07K as just an amp with it and see how that sounds, which is a shame because I assume the amp in the L5 would be higher quality.




Hi there, just to be clear, from the previous posts, you're using the Line Out from your L5 to connect to either amp, correct?


----------



## AudiophileTL

shreyasmax said:


> Hi there, just to be clear, from the previous posts, you're using the Line Out from your L5 to connect to either amp, correct?




Correct, and if I plug it into the "AUX" in of the Fiio I wont be using the DAC of the Fiio correct?


----------



## ShreyasMax

audiophiletl said:


> Correct, and if I plug it into the "AUX" in of the Fiio I wont be using the DAC of the Fiio correct?



 


Yes that's correct.


----------



## Marat Sar

Okay, just got an E12A, stacked with my old school x3.
  
 1) Stack looks beautiful. E12A unit in general - what a looker. Stunning.
  
 2) Sound is very musical. Warm, autumnal, dynamic. Superior in every way to the x3 alone. Superior in tonality to the Cayin c5, but soundstage is narrower and more shallow. No biggie. In a way it incorporates the music better, makes it more cohesive. The muses 02 has a lot of soul.
  
 3) Just one minus though. Less detailed than the c5, less texture too. Maybe this is a burn in issue?
  
 And now a question - does the E12A benefit from burn in? I could definitely go for more tighter bass on my Sennheiser IE800s. And the Cayin had more detail on both the IE800 and the Shure 535.


----------



## Dobrescu George

marat sar said:


> Okay, just got an E12A, stacked with my old school x3.
> 
> 1) Stack looks beautiful. E12A unit in general - what a looker. Stunning.
> 
> ...


 
 IT does not gwet more details with burn in. 
  
 I am using Ie800 at the moment, and because of it's nature, X5II has more details and clarity, and soundstage, but the treble is a tad harsher.


----------



## WitzyZed

There was a bit of discussion back aways about if the muses amp benefitted from "warm-up". So not permanent burn-in but just some characteristics that change from some period of time after a cold start.

How you test or confirm this? No idea.


----------



## Dobrescu George

witzyzed said:


> There was a bit of discussion back aways about if the muses amp benefitted from "warm-up". So not permanent burn-in but just some characteristics that change from some period of time after a cold start.
> 
> How you test or confirm this? No idea.


 
 Turn it on, listen to a song. 
  
 Let it sit for 1 hour, listen again. sounds different. enough different, still rolled-off treble.


----------



## snellemin

If you want brighter treble, swap in a Muses01 if you don't mind soldering.


----------



## Dobrescu George

snellemin said:


> If you want brighter treble, swap in a Muses01 if you don't mind soldering.


 
 dude...
  
 Soldering is way too hardcore for me. I am very afraid of affecting phase of current or change the reactive impedance because of the materials used for soldering.
  
 But this would be a great Ideea for Fiio. they could build a version of E12A with more soundstage, and more treble, and more clarity, Like x5II has.


----------



## nmatheis

Just get E12 DIY + a handful of opamps


----------



## pwoznic

Hi all, I have the E11 that I use with my ipod classic + L9 adapter into Klipsch X10s. I love the sound I get (I mostly listen to metal) with the gain set to high and the bass boost at either position (depends on track), but I hate that I can't use/charge the E11 at the same time (can the E12A do that?). I have another battery on order, but I am also looking into other headphone amps.
  
 Portability is preferred, so I am looking at the E12A, but I also saw that the iFi nano iCan is around the same price (maybe $20 more) and the C5 or JDS. For a little bit more some phil jones bass bighead. I guess the bass boost is important to me and I like a big bold sound with my X10s, so I am wondering if anyone could recommend which is better for my needs?
  
 I would mostly prefer good battery life but I do like the idea of playing/charging at the same time in my cubicle.. the iFi nano iCan says 70 hours of battery which is a ton more than the other options.


----------



## nmatheis

Hey pwoznic: While you can simultaneously use and charge the E12A, the bass boost is pretty subtle. I don't think it's for you. I have no experience with iFi products, so I can't comment on that. 

If you haven't done so yet, take a look at the new Fiio Q1 DAC/Amp. It's got the same amp section and bass boost as the E11k and has a DAC feature, as well, if you'd like to use that.


----------



## WitzyZed

pwoznic said:


> Hi all, I have the E11 that I use with my ipod classic + L9 adapter into Klipsch X10s. I love the sound I get (I mostly listen to metal) with the gain set to high and the bass boost at either position (depends on track), but I hate that I can't use/charge the E11 at the same time (can the E12A do that?). I have another battery on order, but I am also looking into other headphone amps.
> 
> Portability is preferred, so I am looking at the E12A, but I also saw that the iFi nano iCan is around the same price (maybe $20 more) and the C5 or JDS. For a little bit more some phil jones bass bighead. I guess the bass boost is important to me and I like a big bold sound with my X10s, so I am wondering if anyone could recommend which is better for my needs?
> 
> I would mostly prefer good battery life but I do like the idea of playing/charging at the same time in my cubicle.. the iFi nano iCan says 70 hours of battery which is a ton more than the other options.




I’ve only owned an E12 & E12A so I can’t comment on the other amps you’ve mentioned.

The bass boost on the E12A is centered pretty low compared to the basic E12 & also the C5. But it isn't weak by any means, you know it's ON.

I think the E12A has some awesome battery life, if getting 3 days of listening 6-8 hours each is any indication. 

You can listen while charging. I don’t do this that often but I've never noticed any significant interference because of it.
(your mileage my vary with that)


----------



## xaddictionx

pwoznic said:


> Hi all, I have the E11 that I use with my ipod classic + L9 adapter into Klipsch X10s. I love the sound I get (I mostly listen to metal) with the gain set to high and the bass boost at either position (depends on track), but I hate that I can't use/charge the E11 at the same time (can the E12A do that?). I have another battery on order, but I am also looking into other headphone amps.
> 
> Portability is preferred, so I am looking at the E12A, but I also saw that the iFi nano iCan is around the same price (maybe $20 more) and the C5 or JDS. For a little bit more some phil jones bass bighead. I guess the bass boost is important to me and I like a big bold sound with my X10s, so I am wondering if anyone could recommend which is better for my needs?
> 
> I would mostly prefer good battery life but I do like the idea of playing/charging at the same time in my cubicle.. the iFi nano iCan says 70 hours of battery which is a ton more than the other options.



I have the E11K, E12A and JDS C5. E12A sounds cleaner with a larger soundstage, more details and separation than the E11K. The E12A has a slight mid centric sound making the treble seemed laid back at times. The bass boost of E12A as mentioned is more subtle but emphasized in the sub bass region with a gentle touch. E11K bass boost is more prominent. JDS C5 has a more balanced sound with better clarity, details and separation. The bass boost is also more terrifying compared to E11K and E12A. If bass boost is what you're looking for then JDS C5 will be the better option.


----------



## fnb1

Hello
  
 Does anyone know if I connect the E12A to the line-out on my X3 if it then will be "double amped" ? Does the Line-out on the X3 go through the Amp of the X3?


----------



## Mr Trev

The LO of the X3 will totally bypass the amp stage. It's the way to go. I love my combo…


----------



## FiiO-Shadow

fnb1 said:


> Hello
> 
> Does anyone know if I connect the E12A to the line-out on my X3 if it then will be "double amped" ? Does the Line-out on the X3 go through the Amp of the X3?


 
  
 Hi, as the user Mr trev said, "the LO of the X3 will totally bypass the amp stage", so it will NOT be "double amped" when the E12A is connected with the X3's Line-out.


----------



## fnb1

Thanks a lot  Looking forward to hearing this combination, im hoping to get a E12A soon


----------



## Cathcart

It says it's for IEMs. If I get this I'll probably use it with my Lear AE1d, but if in the future I get, say, an HE400s or a Fidelio X1/2, will this be sufficient? Or would I be better off with the regular E12? Thanks.


----------



## Dobrescu George

cathcart said:


> It says it's for IEMs. If I get this I'll probably use it with my Lear AE1d, but if in the future I get, say, an HE400s or a Fidelio X1/2, will this be sufficient? Or would I be better off with the regular E12? Thanks.


 
 Better with e12A. 
  
 No matter what you do, the E12A sounds much better, except for HD800, and maybe for HD650, but he400 and fidelio x2 should be driven better by E12A, considering the particular signature E12A has. 
  
 I managed to be content with E12A and HD800 to be sincere, but this is something not everyone would be 100% content with.


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

If anyone here is in the market for a used E12A, pm me


----------



## jrhunkler

Has anyone tired the Fiio E12A with Fostex TH600's? Says theyre for IEM's just wondering...


----------



## BoonIEMRay

Hi guys, how does the e12a match up with the new alo rx for iems?


----------



## nobody7284

vilhelm44 said:


> Got my E12A yesterday and wow! You can definitely hear a difference in the sound. I'm running it with my Sony NWZ-ZX1 and JH13 Pros and everything is a lot cleaner with tight bass and slightly more clarity/detail. The bass boost is subtle but does make a nice difference adding a little weight to the sound. There is absolutely no hiss either, which is a major step up.
> 
> I'll be selling my regular E12 now as it's been surpassed in a big way for me by the IEM version. It's like discovering my music all over again!


 
 Hi ,
  
 You using LOD cable from Sony Zx1 to E12A? 
  
 Thanks
 Nobody


----------



## nobody7284

I using Sony ZX1 with Umpro30. So E12A best choice as compare to E12?


----------



## vilhelm44

nobody7284 said:


> Hi ,
> 
> You using LOD cable from Sony Zx1 to E12A?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was yes but these days I just use my ZX2 with no other amp.


----------



## nobody7284

vilhelm44 said:


> I was yes but these days I just use my ZX2 with no other amp.


 
 ZX2 better? Without the need of a amp ?


----------



## vilhelm44

nobody7284 said:


> ZX2 better? Without the need of a amp ?


 
  
 For me, it's fine but it all depends what earphones/headphones you're using as they need to be easy to drive.


----------



## nobody7284

vilhelm44 said:


> For me, it's fine but it all depends what earphones/headphones you're using as they need to be easy to drive.


 
 ic..


----------



## nobody7284

If I hook up  Sony Zx1 with PHA-2 then Pha-2 line out to E12A.... How is the result? Or should i not buy PHA-2 use the money buy the Ibasso DX-80 and E12a?


----------



## riodgarp

nobody7284 said:


> If I hook up  Sony Zx1 with PHA-2 then Pha-2 line out to E12A.... How is the result? Or should i not buy PHA-2 use the money buy the Ibasso DX-80 and E12a?


 
 result also variable for user's hearing


----------



## Burakk

You are totally right. If you use a headphone which is easy to drive, zx2 is much more better in many case.


----------



## oreitan13

How is the combination of fiio x5 2nd+E12A+shure se846? 
Or should I pass the amp and connect directly to the x5?


----------



## Dobrescu George

oreitan13 said:


> How is the combination of fiio x5 2nd+E12A+shure se846?
> Or should I pass the amp and connect directly to the x5?


 
 Depends on the taste. 
  
 I was a strong beliver in E12A at the begging but I ended up selling it in favour of using X5II alone, for more treble. 
  
 Well, E12A will make the sound warmer, thicker, more analogue-like, while X5II alone will sound more neutral, less bass, more transparent.


----------



## Marco Angel

dobrescu george said:


> Depends on the taste.
> 
> I was a strong beliver in E12A at the begging but I ended up selling it in favour of using X5II alone, for more treble.
> 
> Well, E12A will make the sound warmer, thicker, more analogue-like, while X5II alone will sound more neutral, less bass, more transparent.


 
 This is why i like the e12a, neutral with a hint of warm.


----------



## imackler

Anyone know if there is any hiss w the ath-im02? That thing is so hissy with the E07K.


----------



## Dobrescu George

imackler said:


> Anyone know if there is any hiss w the ath-im02? That thing is so hissy with the E07K.


 
 Using E12A no hiss at all with anything, as far as i remember. 
  
 Ie8 from senn is hissy with lots of sources, dead silent with e12a


----------



## KLJTech

I've used the E12A with several Klipsch IEM's, the S2's, X5, X7 and X10's and a couple pair of Westone's and have never heard any hiss at all from the E12A. FiiO did a very nice job with that amp and it's my favorite at that price point. Good luck!


----------



## TimmyLangley

Wrong thread, sorry


----------



## doniethegreat

snellemin said:


> I use an older Iphone 4s with my E12A.  I can barely tell a difference between the headphone out and the 30 pin adapter.
> 
> Here's a pic of what the E12A is driving today.  I have the bass boost on, bass mode and SS surround on in the Kaisertone app.  Notice that I'm using the small JDSlabs cable.






Did you notice improvement in sq( sound stage, separation, details, background noise if any) when using E12A with iphone 4s? I'm planning to buy one today


----------



## snellemin

doniethegreat said:


> Did you notice improvement in sq( sound stage, separation, details, background noise if any) when using E12A with iphone 4s? I'm planning to buy one today


 
 Zero noise.  The quality of the output depends what music app I'm using and what I'm listening too.


----------



## doniethegreat

snellemin said:


> Zero noise.  The quality of the output depends what music app I'm using and what I'm listening too.




Really? What music app are you using? I'm using the stock apple music app for my daiy use. I'm on ios 9.1 right now


----------



## snellemin

doniethegreat said:


> Really? What music app are you using? I'm using the stock apple music app for my daiy use. I'm on ios 9.1 right now


 
 I'm using BBE, Kaisertone, Accudio Pro, Neutron and Denon.  Accudio being my favorite.  I can get so many sound signatures with Accudio, that I have yet to get bored of my currenty headphones and earphonens.


----------



## Mr Trev

Does anybody know if leaving the amp on will be a considerable drain the battery??
  
 I've noticed in the past little month or so, that the battery doesn't seem to last all that long anymore (usually, I have to charge it more often than my x3). I also noticed that I also have a tendency to forget to turn the amp off. I'm wondering if that is having an effect.


----------



## Dobrescu George

mr trev said:


> Does anybody know if leaving the amp on will be a considerable drain the battery??
> 
> I've noticed in the past little month or so, that the battery doesn't seem to last all that long anymore (usually, I have to charge it more often than my x3). I also noticed that I also have a tendency to forget to turn the amp off. I'm wondering if that is having an effect.


 
 If you do not turn it off, it is still working, it should completely discharge in 20 hours or so even if there is no music playing.
  
 Just turn that knob when you plug the headphones out, and the battery will last a lot.


----------



## Mr Trev

dobrescu george said:


> If you do not turn it off, it is still working, it should completely discharge in 20 hours or so even if there is no music playing.
> 
> Just turn that knob when you plug the headphones out, and the battery will last a lot.


 
 Good to know. Thanks, I won't rush out to get a new battery.


----------



## Marco Angel

mr trev said:


> Good to know. Thanks, I won't rush out to get a new battery.



Anyway, fiio gladly will sell a new battery if you ask them for it


----------



## Auriqe

Hi guys,
  
 After reading through all these posts, I have decided to buy this beautiful thing, and it is amazing how good the sound and quality is! (I am using with Dunu DN2000j and sansa clip rockbox).
  
 But could you please inform me if this is normal and it is like it should be that when turning the volume knob from off to power on (volume up) it produces some clicking/popping sound inside the device (only once while powering on) ? Same mechanical sound can be heard inside when turning knob down to power it off, is it normal? Could someone test it in silence so you could hear it?


----------



## TheoS53

auriqe said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> After reading through all these posts, I have decided to buy this beautiful thing, and it is amazing how good the sound and quality is! (I am using with Dunu DN2000j and sansa clip rockbox).
> 
> But could you please inform me if this is normal and it is like it should be that when turning the volume knob from off to power on (volume up) it produces some clicking/popping sound inside the device (only once while powering on) ? Same mechanical sound can be heard inside when turning knob down to power it off, is it normal? Could someone test it in silence so you could hear it?



Perfectly normal


----------



## Auriqe

Thanks for quick reply!
  
 So you could hear similar sound too while turning on/off? It's like a crack while powering on/off and one more small 'tick' appears with delay after, if I turn volume up/down volume knob after that - no more 'ticks or cracks'.
  
 Sorry, I just wanna make sure everything is ok with it


----------



## TheoS53

auriqe said:


> Thanks for quick reply!
> 
> So you could hear similar sound too while turning on/off? It's like a crack while powering on/off and one more small 'tick' appears with delay after, if I turn volume up/down volume knob after that - no more 'ticks or cracks'.
> 
> Sorry, I just wanna make sure everything is ok with it



yup that's perfectly normal... If memory serves me, it's the relay making that sound. My E12 did it, the E18 does it.. Very common and nothing to be concerned about


----------



## Mr Trev

Yes, it's just relays. They protect your phones from being thumped to hell. It'll also happen when you plug/unplug your earphones.


----------



## Auriqe

Thanks everyone for replies, now I am relieved that everything looks fine in that case. The problem was that, when I have received E12a it was pre-charged already in the sealed box, and I believe that there was no sound from it, but when I tried to charge it for the first time, I heard that click sound..it could be that my memory play tricks or could it be that relay began to function like it should only when it "felt" power from the charger for the first time?


----------



## Vergil

Probably everyone already has a strong image / opinion about the E12 / E12A (didn't read all the 76 pages), but to anyone still wondering whether the E12/E12A is worth it for the X5:

 First of all I have the X5 first gen, which is not far behind the second gen when it comes to sound as far as I know, so it should be valid for all FiiO players as long as the X7 doesn't hit the shelves.
  
 Please note that I do not own the E12, only the E12A. I tried both in a store and ended up buying the E12A.
  
 A few things I noticed, that should be interesting for people considering any of these:
  
 The E12 (non-A) is very similar to the internal AMP of the X5. More power, crippled soundstage, more energetic bass and a little bit more detail. The music experience is overall a bit different, but still similar. Not even an obvious improvement imo. I'd only buy it for high-impedance headphones, where even the E12A is not enough.
  
 The E12A is a *massive* improvement over both the internal *and the E12*. My AKG K551s plugged into a laptop feels like I'm locked in the closet with the band. The X5 already has a pretty good soundstage, most of the time it feels like being in a huge concert hall, where I can close my eyes and still know what sound comes from where. The E12A takes the experience even further, I do not even feel like I'm sitting on a chair in a building. It's more like flying in the open and hearing stuff during the activity. The vocalist is no longer whispering in my ears, rather standing near me, with an army of instruments behind him/her. It feels like I'm outdoors, because I do not see where that "army" ends (no walls to speak of), they just disappear far away on the horizon. With better phones you can probably hear the limitations of the AMP, but still, it's a night and day improvement over the X5 (which was already very good).
  
 Micro-detail is also improved. Without the AMP I could hear pretty much all of these already, but it felt like they were little kids in school who - in fear of not giving the right answer - were speaking with a shaky voice. If I were to oversimplify the situation, I'd say with a laptop I have so-so sound and no fine texture whatsoever, with the X5 I have rock solid sound with detailed, but a bit "unconfident" additional layer of fine detail and with the X5 + E12A I have only one layer, composed of rock solid sound and rock solid fine detail. They pretty much blend together, I no longer have to focus my brain to catch those little bastards hiding behind the loud, more robust sounds.
  
 It greatly depends on the headphones I guess, but my K551s sounded a bit lifeless and "digital" on both the X5 and the E12. On the E12A however it was as natural as the all-analogue system one of my digital-racist friend uses. With pop / rock it wasn't very noticeable, but songs with big orchestras (e.g. Flying Snow from Two Steps From Hell or Mozart's Lacrymosa) benefited quite a lot and by that I mean they turned from dull to emotionally overwhelming. On more complex pop songs (e.g. E.T. from Katy Perry) I noticed the improvement, but it was far from the transformation that some intense orchestral pieces went through.
  
 Conclusion: I'm sure if you have the K712s, similar or even better you can buy an AMP for 1000+ $ and get even better sound. However, the question is: can you have such a big jump in SQ with other AMPs and without spending more than 5 times the amount FiiO is asking for the E12A? Call me ignorant, but I don't think you can.


----------



## violencer

Original X5 HO is U-shaped with smooth and dark mids.
 X5+E12A is more neutral with more linear bass and little more extended mid-bass response.
 I like E12A for its musicality, it's one of the best FiiO's product.


----------



## Dobrescu George

With X5II, I liked the X5II presentation more than X5II+E12A, but with the original X5, E12A was a huge improvement.


----------



## jrhunkler

doniethegreat said:


> Really? What music app are you using? I'm using the stock apple music app for my daiy use. I'm on ios 9.1 right now




Spotify has an awesome EQ app.


----------



## TRapz

I just bought the E12 off of Amazon for, at the moment, my Grado SR80i, Shure SRH440, and Shure SE215. The only reason I bought the E12 was because I plan on buying something like the HE400i or something harder to drive this spring. I'm wondering now, after reading a bit about the E12A, whether I should cancel my order and go with the E12A instead. Can this amp power stuff like the HE400i well? Will the E12 be okay with my SE215 (no hiss)? 
  
 Edit: After reading a bit more, I've canceled my order of the E12 and instead gone with the E12A; thanks for the help, can't wait to get the amp.


----------



## jrhunkler

trapz said:


> I just bought the E12 off of Amazon for, at the moment, my Grado SR80i, Shure SRH440, and Shure SE215. The only reason I bought the E12 was because I plan on buying something like the HE400i or something harder to drive this spring. I'm wondering now, after reading a bit about the E12A, whether I should cancel my order and go with the E12A instead. Can this amp power stuff like the HE400i well? Will the E12 be okay with my SE215 (no hiss)?




I use the E12A with my Fostex TH600's and they tickle my ear drums.


----------



## Vergil

The E12A can pump out almost 400 mW at 35Ω, so it's not gonna be a problem.
  
 just for fun:

 The SRH440 is 44Ω and 105dB/mW. The FiiO X1's output at 44Ω is ~50mW, so it's ~121dB at max volume.
The HE400i is 35Ω and 93dB/mW. The E12A's output at 35Ω is ~370mW, so it's ~119dB at max volume.
Conclusion: The amped Hifiman is not only almost as loud, but you can still blow your eardrums if you happen to be in the mood for it.


----------



## Dobrescu George

E12A should be enough for 400i, but not for something harder to drive. It was not enough for HD650 if memory serves me well.


----------



## cmacsocial

I own the E12A; it's running a X5II and Oppo's PM-3 headphones. Does anyone have experience comparing the E12A to Oppo's HA-2 amp?


----------



## TRapz

vergil said:


> The E12A can pump out almost 400 mW at 35Ω, so it's not gonna be a problem.
> just for fun:
> The SRH440 is 44Ω and 105dB/mW. The FiiO X1's output at 44Ω is ~50mW, so it's ~121dB at max volume.
> The HE400i is 35Ω and 93dB/mW. The E12A's output at 35Ω is ~370mW, so it's ~119dB at max volume.
> Conclusion: The amped Hifiman is not only almost as loud, but you can still blow your eardrums if you happen to be in the mood for it.


 
 Thanks for your help. I received the E12A today and I'm loving it, especially with my Grado. Can I ask how you did those calculations? I'd like to do some for a few other headphones.


----------



## nobody7284

trapz said:


> Thanks for your help. I received the E12A today and I'm loving it, especially with my Grado. Can I ask how you did those calculations? I'd like to do some for a few other headphones.


 
 Ya same here. What about  Westone UMPro30 at 56 ohmn? Is E12A able to drive it efficiently? Thanks


----------



## KLJTech

I haven't tried the E12A with the UMPro30's, but I can tell you that it does a great job with the Westone W40's. Dead silent background and very spacious sounding.


----------



## nobody7284

kljtech said:


> I haven't tried the E12A with the UMPro30's, but I can tell you that it does a great job with the Westone W40's. Dead silent background and very spacious sounding.


 
 OK hopefully it will par well with pro30. alot of discussion about ouptut power at 32ohm with how many watt and so on but nvr on 56ohms at how many power output ... pro30 has a very weird impedance...


----------



## KLJTech

I've used the E12A on several of my full-size headphones around the house (including planar's) so I think you'll be good to go with the UM's. Good luck!


----------



## nobody7284

kljtech said:


> I've used the E12A on several of my full-size headphones around the house (including planar's) so I think you'll be good to go with the UM's. Good luck!


 
 Hopefully as i gonna hook up to Pioneer XDP-100R....


----------



## Vergil

trapz said:


> Thanks for your help. I received the E12A today and I'm loving it, especially with my Grado. Can I ask how you did those calculations? I'd like to do some for a few other headphones.


 
*How Bel works*
  
 With full names:
 1 liter = 10 deciliter = 100 centiliter = 1000 milliliter
  
 With shorter names:
 1 l = 10 dl = 100 cl = 1000 ml
  
 Works the same way with Bels and Watts:
 1 dB = 0.1 B and 1 mW = 0.001 W
  
 Watt is linear meaning 10 * 50 W = 500 W = 500 000 mW and 10 * 50 mW = 500 mW
 Bel is exponential (10x) meaning 10 * 50 B = 51 B = 510 dB and 3 * 100 dB = log10(3) B + 100 dB = 10log10(3) dB + 100 dB = ~104.7 dB
  
 The lazy (not 100% accurate) version without logarithm:
 2x is +3dB (because 2 * X dB = 10log10(2) dB + X dB = ~ X+3 dB)
 10x is +10dB (because 10 * X dB = 10log10(10) dB + X dB = ~ X+10 dB)
  
 Example:
 370 * 93 dB = ?
 10 * 10 * 2 * 2 = 400 = ~370
 93 + 10 + 10 + 3 + 3 dB = 119 dB
  
 The proper way: 10log10(370) dB + 93 dB = ~ 118.68 dB
  
  
*Headphones and amps*
  
 Given info (specs of the products):
 HE400 has an impedance (= overall resistance) of 35Ω and a sensitivity of 93 dB / mW
The FiiO E12A has an output of 480 mW at 16 Ω, 400 at 32 Ω and 60 mW at 300Ω
  
Output in watts and resistance in ohms is supposed to be linear (60 mW at 300Ω ⇒ 60*(300/32) = 560 mW at 32Ω), but voltage changes a little bit, so you should always use the data that is nearest to your headphones. In this case "400 at 32 Ω" is usable. Voltage at 32 Ω and 35 Ω should be pretty much the same, so 400 * (32/35) = ~366 mW at 35 Ω.
  
A sensitivity of 93 dB / mW means at 1 mW the headphones are 93 dB loud. We have 366 mW instead of 1 mW, so it should be 366 * 93 dB = ~119 dB loud.


----------



## Tuneslover

nobody7284 said:


> Ya same here. What about  Westone UMPro30 at 56 ohmn? Is E12A able to drive it efficiently? Thanks




That's what I use as my on-the-go IEM and on LOW gain they are driven with ease.


----------



## MBalfour

Hi all and happy new year.
  
 Do you think the E12a would work with the Akg k612 (120 ohm)? I've tried and dismally failed to calculate this myself following the helpful advice posted previously. 
  
 The specs for the E12a go up to 150 ohm and I found this link which suggests it would be okay - http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/akg/k-612-pro/with/fiio/mont-blanc-e12a . I don't tend to listen to music very loud if that makes a difference.
  
 Any help would be gratefully appreciated thanks!


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

I wanted to ask if anyone can tell me if the Fiio e12a matches up to the jds labs c5 amp. I have read in here that the c5 has better balance. But was hoping someone has done some comparisons. I am on the verge of a purchase and I am up in the air between E12a, JDS C5, and a used oppo ha2 for the potential use with my phone(normally use dx90 with fidue a83s and earsonics sm64v2)


----------



## WitzyZed

whiskeyjacks said:


> I wanted to ask if anyone can tell me if the Fiio e12a matches up to the jds labs c5 amp. I have read in here that the c5 has better balance. But was hoping someone has done some comparisons. I am on the verge of a purchase and I am up in the air between E12a, JDS C5, and a used oppo ha2 for the potential use with my phone(normally use dx90 with fidue a83s and earsonics sm64v2)



Is your question about balance regarding low/mid/hi response or channel balance?


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

I am going to say balance and sound quality of the lows, mids, highs


----------



## ShreyasMax

whiskeyjacks said:


> I am going to say balance and sound quality of the lows, mids, highs


 
 For using with your phone I would suggest to go for a DAC/ amp solution if possible rather than just the amp (assuming the phone is not running Windows), as it would not be possible to get a line output from the phone to either the E12A or the JDS C5. The C5D is also an option, although I've never tried the C5/ C5D. If you get a decent line out from a DAP or DAC, the E12A is a true value-for-money solution.
  
 So if you're going to directly use the device from the phone, as a 2-device stack, I would suggest to go for the HA2, especially if available at a significant discount.


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

shreyasmax said:


> For using with your phone I would suggest to go for a DAC/ amp solution if possible rather than just the amp (assuming the phone is not running Windows), as it would not be possible to get a line output from the phone to either the E12A or the JDS C5. The C5D is also an option, although I've never tried the C5/ C5D. If you get a decent line out from a DAP or DAC, the E12A is a true value-for-money solution.
> 
> So if you're going to directly use the device from the phone, as a 2-device stack, I would suggest to go for the HA2, especially if available at a significant discount.


 
 This amp would be paired with the DX90(lurker f.w.) Earsonics SM64v2( great ba iem), Fidue A83(great hybrid IEM), and the HP150 from Sound magic(easy to drive full size headphone, the hp100 was a great buy in performance for dollar). I would like the Oppo ha-2 just to have the option to have my phone stacked and beingf able to listen to high quality flac without having to bring the dx90 along all the time. But I also dont know if I will have the 240$ for it, but can more likely get the 125$ for the Fiio E12a. I was told from ClieOS the E12a is a very good amp amp on par with the HA-2's amp with just a different signature and more of a balance between transparency and musicality. So I Am in rut, lol I WANT BOTH! lol


----------



## ShreyasMax

whiskeyjacks said:


> This amp would be paired with the DX90(lurker f.w.) Earsonics SM64v2( great ba iem), Fidue A83(great hybrid IEM), and the HP150 from Sound magic(easy to drive full size headphone, the hp100 was a great buy in performance for dollar). I would like the Oppo ha-2 just to have the option to have my phone stacked and beingf able to listen to high quality flac without having to bring the dx90 along all the time. But I also dont know if I will have the 240$ for it, but can more likely get the 125$ for the Fiio E12a. I was told from ClieOS the E12a is a very good amp amp on par with the HA-2's amp with just a different signature and more of a balance between transparency and musicality. So I Am in rut, lol I WANT BOTH! lol




Haha, seems like you know exactly what you want!


----------



## TRapz

I received my E12A earlier this week and strapped it to my FiiO X1; it sounds incredible, especially with my SR80i. I've also tried it with a friend's Mad Dog, and it had plenty of power to spare. I'm considering a few headphones for an upgrade this spring, and a higher-end Grado is looking good, based on how well the E12A pairs with my SR80i. Thanks for everyone's help here, I'm very happy with the amp.


----------



## FiiO

trapz said:


> I received my E12A earlier this week and strapped it to my FiiO X1; it sounds incredible, especially with my SR80i. I've also tried it with a friend's Mad Dog, and it had plenty of power to spare. I'm considering a few headphones for an upgrade this spring, and a higher-end Grado is looking good, based on how well the E12A pairs with my SR80i. Thanks for everyone's help here, I'm very happy with the amp.


 
  
 Hi, TRapz. Glad to know that you are enjoying this amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 And hanks for your appreciation to FiiO.


----------



## pacman46

I am loving this amp. But is anyone experiencing that the red led charging light does not go out when the amp is charged? When the charger is still connected I should add. Probably not a big deal but the e11 I owned years ago did so was just curious.


----------



## Dobrescu George

pacman46 said:


> I am loving this amp. But is anyone experiencing that the red led charging light does not go out when the amp is charged? When the charger is still connected I should add. Probably not a big deal but the e11 I owned years ago did so was just curious.


 
 How much time did you charge, so you know that it is charged?
  
 To get into a 100% fully charged, it might take a very long while (even 8-9hours), especially if you are using a 2.0 usb port or weak power adapter.


----------



## pacman46

dobrescu george said:


> How much time did you charge, so you know that it is charged?
> 
> To get into a 100% fully charged, it might take a very long while (even 8-9hours), especially if you are using a 2.0 usb port or weak power adapter.


I'm charging from the wall. And charging over night so ya probably around 6-8 hours maybe? I'm going to plug. It in a longer tonight and see what happens. I didn't think it took that long but maybe. Thanks buddy


----------



## Mr Trev

Isn't is suppose to stay lit when its fully charged?. I think mine always has, it just stops blinking when its fully charged.


----------



## pacman46

mr trev said:


> Isn't is suppose to stay lit when its fully charged?. I think mine always has, it just stops blinking when its fully charged.


mine won't blink it will just stay lit. Think I'm going run the amp till it is completely out of power then keep it plugged in for longer then I normally do and see if that works. If that don't work I will try resetting the amp.


----------



## Mr Trev

It should blink while charging (or almost dead) - speed depends on the charger.


----------



## Vergil

mbalfour said:


> Hi all and happy new year.
> 
> Do you think the E12a would work with the Akg k612 (120 ohm)? I've tried and dismally failed to calculate this myself following the helpful advice posted previously.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not sure if I'm late for this (you already bought something or not), but based on specs alone the E12A is fine. If you do not want to mess with the calculations,
 I just found this site: AKG K612 Pro + FiiO E12A
  
 A quick search on Head-Fi revealed the followings (further proof that the E12A is fine):
 - Someone is using these headphones with the E10K (max volume: E10K < E12A < E12).
 - Someone with the E12 never turns the volume higher than 60% (meaning you do *not* need the extra omph you would get by getting the E12 insted of the E12A).


----------



## Vergil

pacman46 said:


> mine won't blink it will just stay lit. Think I'm going run the amp till it is completely out of power then keep it plugged in for longer then I normally do and see if that works. If that don't work I will try resetting the amp.


 
  
 Mr Trev already gave an explanation, but anyway, here's how the red light works:
  

*Red light*​*Power*​*Battery level*​Fast blinking​Battery​Low​Slow blinking​Cable​Not fully charged​Stays lit​Cable​Fully charged​
  
 Note: I think the blinking speed is not the same ("Low battery" warning vs "I'm charging" message), but I'm not sure, will check it out next time.


----------



## pacman46

vergil said:


> Mr Trev already gave an explanation, but anyway, here's how the red light works:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oh excellent thank you. I'm letting it completely die before charging it again I have about eight hours into it so still aways to go.


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

So. I recently received this amplifier and was happy to say it sounds very good at it's price point. Now, to be fair to this amp I am comparing it to some of the better portable amps that have come out in the past few years. I paired the E12a with the Sound Magic HP150, the Fidue A83 hybrid iems, and the Earsonics SM64v2. This was all stemming from the DX90( Lurker F.W.) with no audio files under 44.1khz/16bit. The Fiio e12a in my opinion is better sounding then both the E12, Cayin C5, Go vibe 6, And I preferred it to the DX90's internal amp. Does a very good job at a few things: Being quiet and giving a black backround, transparency and detail retrieval is very good at this price point especially with out sounding too analytical, it does seem to have slight warmth and thicker note presentation in comparison to the iBasso PB2(single end hp out, with the LM49990 opa and dummy buffers). Which is not  a bad thing, it comes down to preference, I can go either way the slight warmth and thicker sound can make it is easier to listen to for many people. It also keeps a good amount of clarity and detail, and so far it has done a great job with the three headphones/IEMs that I mentioned above. This is just my impressions from this week and I will be writing a full review and at some point this the review a comparison between the E12a, iBasso PB2, Corda 2move(amp only), and the Meier 2stepdance. 
  
 Further note, if some of you perhaps newer head-fiers or head-fiers that are switch gear are on the fence about a good portable amplifier and are checking this amp out. Then let me tell you that at 160( which I saw it on sale on amazon) this is a very good product, not to mention it drives my 100ohm IEMs with ease on lower gain, and I think for IEMs and low sensitivity headphones this is ideal.


----------



## Pacman123

I recently purchased the E12A and I have to say it is a great amp. 

 I enjoy the bass boost switch and keep it constantly on. 

 I have an Arrow 5tx ordered but decided to get the E12A to hold me over. 

 Happy with my decision.


----------



## DrSHP

Fiio X3ii + E12a + ex1
great combo


----------



## ShreyasMax

drshp said:


> Fiio X3ii + E12a + ex1
> great combo


 
  
 Nice, enjoy your E12A.


----------



## majo123

joe bloggs said:


> I've listened to the E12 and the E12A side by side and I must say the E12A definitely fits the bill as an improved model for driving IEMs. The E12 hissed and sounded a bit muddy with my CIEMs while the E12A had a black background as advertised and sounded more detailed. The E12A still has a high gain option and drove the HD650 handily in that setting. The E12 could drive the HE5 in a pinch though...


 
 hi i know this is a very old thread but i have an e12a mont blanc and had read else where that it couldnt drive senn HD650????? i was looking at buying HD650 or 600 to use on portable setup


----------



## Tuneslover

majo123 said:


> hi i know this is a very old thread but i have an e12a mont blanc and had read else where that it couldnt drive senn HD650????? i was looking at buying HD650 or 600 to use on portable setup


 
 While yes the E12a will drive the HD650's reasonably well a much better amp will get you where you want to drive the HD650's to their potential.


----------



## Dobrescu George

tuneslover said:


> While yes the E12a will drive the HD650's reasonably well a much better amp will get you where you want to drive the HD650's to their potential.


 
  


majo123 said:


> hi i know this is a very old thread but i have an e12a mont blanc and had read else where that it couldnt drive senn HD650????? i was looking at buying HD650 or 600 to use on portable setup


 
  
 I think that adding a smooth amp to a smooth headphone is only going to make everything even smoother. So E12a-smooth + HD650 -smooth will result in a super smooth sound. 
  
 But I do think that for it's price, e12A drives hd650 much better than competition. Well, it would be normal that an ifi idsd or a chord mojo could drive hd650 better, but they cost 4X the price of e12a.


----------



## majo123

thanks for that ...i have a fiio x7 and a fiio x5 which i had paired with e12a , was looking at the philips fidelio x2 and l2 both easy to power......x2s have some serious quality issues going on apparently and l2s have good reviews , so was looking at the senns 600s and 650s ..im currently using akg k702 but just looking at alternatives but the senns need a lot of power...also would like to run what i but with the new medium power module for x7.


----------



## Dobrescu George

majo123 said:


> thanks for that ...i have a fiio x7 and a fiio x5 which i had paired with e12a , was looking at the philips fidelio x2 and l2 both easy to power......x2s have some serious quality issues going on apparently and l2s have good reviews , so was looking at the senns 600s and 650s ..im currently using akg k702 but just looking at alternatives but the senns need a lot of power...also would like to run what i but with the new medium power module for x7.


 
  
 If you can drive k702, you should be able to drive more than enough hd650. Also, X7 does a great job driving hd650, so you should not worry. 
  
 But you should worry about signature. K702 is (from memory) pretty cold, pretty much treble, clear and bright, where hd650 is pretty dark, pretty much amazing mids and bass, but not enough treble for some (me for example). I did love those mids though, and would get hd650 and EQ it.


----------



## majo123

i agree ..i do like akg sig to a degree very open stage ...but yep can be bright and harsh at times so been looking at the senns for that exact reason...just a choice of 600 or 650s now .


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

majo123 said:


> i agree ..i do like akg sig to a degree very open stage ...but yep can be bright and harsh at times so been looking at the senns for that exact reason...just a choice of 600 or 650s now .


 
 Both are laid back and have nice detail and midrange, if you have a good performing amp the HD650 scales well a bit better from my experience than the HD600s(the HD600s sounded very good with solid state or tube)


----------



## majo123

Thanks il probably get 650s heard there pretty good. Will probably use them with fiio x7 and k5 ( need to get k5)


----------



## ShreyasMax

majo123 said:


> Thanks il probably get 650s heard there pretty good. Will probably use them with fiio x7 and k5 ( need to get k5)




Now that should be a very good combination. I liked the X7 directly out of the HO with my Fidelio X2, slightly better than when adding E12A to the mix. With K5, the X7 should definitely make the HD650 a force to be reckoned with. 

Enjoy the music, cheers.


----------



## majo123

Thanks...I wanted fidelio x2 but the quality on the Gibson version is awful heard nothing but bad about there version.. Woox version supposed to be OK but not easy to get and Philips have done nothing about it.... So HD 650 instead


----------



## ShreyasMax

majo123 said:


> Thanks...I wanted fidelio x2 but the quality on the Gibson version is awful heard nothing but bad about there version.. Woox version supposed to be OK but not easy to get and Philips have done nothing about it.... So HD 650 instead




Well I wouldn't think the newer batch is inferior in any way, although I myself have WOOX version. Do watch Z reviews on YouTube for additional observations on the newer batch issues, which, apart from non removable ear pads, are non issues as far as I know.

I don't think that quality should be an issue with the X2. 

Cheers


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

majo123 said:


> Thanks...I wanted fidelio x2 but the quality on the Gibson version is awful heard nothing but bad about there version.. Woox version supposed to be OK but not easy to get and Philips have done nothing about it.... So HD 650 instead


 
 Part of why amazon put the X2 under investigation, the ones they were selling anyways( which Had tons of complaints and returns)


----------



## majo123

whiskeyjacks said:


> Part of why amazon put the X2 under investigation, the ones they were selling anyways( which Had tons of complaints and returns)


----------



## AndroidVageta

Sooo I just got a X5 recently (Japanese Limited Edition...very nice) and I have to say that I very much enjoy the sound. More so than the X1, X3K, and DX90 before it!
  
 Problem is that the sound stage...well...it's pretty narrow. Very narrow. Using my AudioTrak ImAmp is like opening all the windows in the house by comparison!
  
 So I was thinking of pairing with a E12A as I've heard it's better in this regard and was just wondering if anyone had any comparisons of sound quality between the two. Primarily sound stage but all the other stuff too, if you wouldn't mind.
  
 Basically, what would I be gaining (or losing) by pairing the X5 with the E12A? Mainly looking at the E12A as well because of it's features (like the bass boost) and the fact that, visually, it's a very nice match with the X5. I know that's a bit petty but I'm a little OCD like that I suppose! Think it would look nice with the stacking kit!
  
 Yeah, any help would be appreciated! Thanks guys and gals!


----------



## Vergil

androidvageta said:


> Sooo I just got a X5 recently (Japanese Limited Edition...very nice) and I have to say that I very much enjoy the sound. More so than the X1, X3K, and DX90 before it!
> 
> Problem is that the sound stage...well...it's pretty narrow. Very narrow. Using my AudioTrak ImAmp is like opening all the windows in the house by comparison!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Bigger soundstage and smoother sound were the first two things I noticed when pairing the E12A with the X5. I wrote a mini-review about the E12A a few pages earlier. I hope mods don't mind if I re-post it here. Please note that the E12A fixed almost everything I hated about the X5 + AKG K551 combo, so that's why I wrote it with such enthusiasm. With different phones and preferences maybe you won't like the way it changes the sound as much as I do. It defo should be on the top of your buy list, just try it out before buying if you can, because buying amps are like buying headphones. Just because other people like it doesn't mean you will too.
  


vergil said:


> Probably everyone already has a strong image / opinion about the E12 / E12A (didn't read all the 76 pages), but to anyone still wondering whether the E12/E12A is worth it for the X5:
> 
> First of all I have the X5 first gen, which is not far behind the second gen when it comes to sound as far as I know, so it should be valid for all FiiO players as long as the X7 doesn't hit the shelves.
> 
> ...


----------



## AndroidVageta

vergil said:


> Bigger soundstage and smoother sound were the first two things I noticed when pairing the E12A with the X5. I wrote a mini-review about the E12A a few pages earlier. I hope mods don't mind if I re-post it here. Please note that the E12A fixed almost everything I hated about the X5 + AKG K551 combo, so that's why I wrote it with such enthusiasm. With different phones and preferences maybe you won't like the way it changes the sound as much as I do. It defo should be on the top of your buy list, just try it out before buying if you can, because buying amps are like buying headphones. Just because other people like it doesn't mean you will too.


 
 OK so sound stage is better. Cool. But you say it's "smoother"...what exactly do you mean by this? I'm a detail whore and love my clear and crisp mids and highs which the X5 does a decent job of with some EQ'ing. Will the E12A bring this down some? Is it more detailed?


----------



## Dobrescu George

androidvageta said:


> OK so sound stage is better. Cool. But you say it's "smoother"...what exactly do you mean by this? I'm a detail whore and love my clear and crisp mids and highs which the X5 does a decent job of with some EQ'ing. Will the E12A bring this down some? Is it more detailed?


 
  
 E12A has a smoother top end. To put it nicely. 
  
 IF you want to be more specific, the treble is not loud enough. This is why I do not use E12A anymore. It is clear, has great bass, very great mids, amazing soundstage, and very nice build and features. But if it comes to treble, it is less than X5 or X5II, and it did not satisfy me for metal music. With metal I need to crank those cymbals, to feel that pure power and energy behind the music. On the other hand, I would strongly recommend E12A with everything that is not metal and electronic, and even with some electronic music. 
  
 Treble is Smooth, is like silk, like very friendly, it will not tire you, it will make you feel like listening to it all day long, and still want more. Most people want this.


----------



## Skullbox

androidvageta said:


> OK so sound stage is better. Cool. But you say it's "smoother"...what exactly do you mean by this? I'm a detail whore and love my clear and crisp mids and highs which the X5 does a decent job of with some EQ'ing. Will the E12A bring this down some? Is it more detailed?




Talking alot here about X5... knowing that this is E12a thread,.. What about E12a pairing with X3II + Westone W4r now ?

Thx!


----------



## Dobrescu George

skullbox said:


> Talking alot here about X5... knowing that this is E12a thread,.. What about E12a pairing with X3II now ?
> 
> Thx!


 
  
 Differences between pairing X5 and X3II with E12A are pretty small. You get about the same final sound, with the exception that X5 will be slightly more detailed, slightly more soundstage, slightly better treble, slightly better dynamics when paired with E12A than X3II paired with E12A.


----------



## Vergil

dobrescu george said:


> androidvageta said:
> 
> 
> > OK so sound stage is better. Cool. But you say it's "smoother"...what exactly do you mean by this? I'm a detail whore and love my clear and crisp mids and highs which the X5 does a decent job of with some EQ'ing. Will the E12A bring this down some? Is it more detailed?
> ...


 


 Same experience here, except I found the highs on my K551s too harsh. For me it didn't kill the sound, it tamed it.


----------



## AndroidVageta

dobrescu george said:


> E12A has a smoother top end. To put it nicely.
> 
> IF you want to be more specific, the treble is not loud enough. This is why I do not use E12A anymore. It is clear, has great bass, very great mids, amazing soundstage, and very nice build and features. But if it comes to treble, it is less than X5 or X5II, and it did not satisfy me for metal music. With metal I need to crank those cymbals, to feel that pure power and energy behind the music. On the other hand, I would strongly recommend E12A with everything that is not metal and electronic, and even with some electronic music.
> 
> Treble is Smooth, is like silk, like very friendly, it will not tire you, it will make you feel like listening to it all day long, and still want more. Most people want this.


 
  
 Hmmmm...might have to crank the 16khz and 8khz sliders on the X5 a tad but I don't mind it being a little smoother I suppose, especially if it results in wider sound stage. Sound stage is very important to me and the X5 lacks this ONE thing in my opinion as I find the rest of the sound pretty dang good!


----------



## Vergil

androidvageta said:


> Hmmmm...might have to crank the 16khz and 8khz sliders on the X5 a tad but I don't mind it being a little smoother I suppose, especially if it results in wider sound stage. Sound stage is very important to me and the X5 lacks this ONE thing in my opinion as I find the rest of the sound pretty dang good!


 


 I've been saying all this time that buying complicated electronic devices are like marriage. You will never find a perfect one, but you will find the one that only has shortcomings you can live with. We can talk about them, we can form opinions about them, give recommendation about what to do and not to do, but at the end of the day you still have to arrange a meeting before you can say you're in love.

 Long story short, the next step should be to visit a local audio store and try it out with your own equipment and own music. Based on the comments there's a big chance you will like it.


----------



## AndroidVageta

vergil said:


> snip




I have no where I could even think of that would have a E12A to test. So unfortunately that's not a possibilty.

But yeah, if it's just smoother treble and pretty much better everything else then I'm down. X5 has plenty of high end left in the EQ to regain some sparkle!

Thanks for the info guys! Definitely seems like a nice pairing.


----------



## Dobrescu George

vergil said:


> Same experience here, except I found the highs on my K551s too harsh. For me it didn't kill the sound, it tamed it.


 
  
 The treble spike on K551 is not in 16Khz region, but rather around in 8-10Khz region. E12A is a bit too smooth for me, but it works very well taming those headphones that are naturally like this. For example it will also help with HD700 and HD800 from sennheiser, but the presentation will be  king butter smooth with hd650.


----------



## Dobrescu George

androidvageta said:


> I have no where I could even think of that would have a E12A to test. So unfortunately that's not a possibilty.
> 
> But yeah, if it's just smoother treble and pretty much better everything else then I'm down. X5 has plenty of high end left in the EQ to regain some sparkle!
> 
> Thanks for the info guys! Definitely seems like a nice pairing.


 
  
 Playing with EQ on X5 will not alleviate the problem completely. At least it did not for me, and I would like to warn about this. Some recordings have a high pitched, top end hiss recorded there, like an air. That is lost with E12A, and the backgroud becomes very dark. Compared to X5 which has a bit of hiss by itself, the soundstage is much bigger and detail retrieval is much better because you will hear no noise at all. But that top end air might not be recovered regardless of how much you tweak it. 
  
 On the other hand, most people do not even hear that in the first place, nor feel it missing. It will not affect soundstage or anything, but for metal music, it takes away harshness, and energy and power with it.
  
 Lean metal is like a car that can push 200Km/h but is electronically limited to 100Km/h. taking away the harshness takes away the rush.


----------



## AndroidVageta

dobrescu george said:


> Playing with EQ on X5 will not alleviate the problem completely. At least it did not for me, and I would like to warn about this. Some recordings have a high pitched, top end hiss recorded there, like an air. That is lost with E12A, and the backgroud becomes very dark. Compared to X5 which has a bit of hiss by itself, the soundstage is much bigger and detail retrieval is much better because you will hear no noise at all. But that top end air might not be recovered regardless of how much you tweak it.
> 
> On the other hand, most people do not even hear that in the first place, nor feel it missing. It will not affect soundstage or anything, but for metal music, it takes away harshness, and energy and power with it.
> 
> Lean metal is like a car that can push 200Km/h but is electronically limited to 100Km/h. taking away the harshness takes away the rush.


 
 Well while I understand what you're talking about, my only option is to just buy and try! I played around with the E1 on the X5 and there's PLENTY of high-end left that it can produce through EQ so even if the E12A is missing that certain "hiss" I'm HOPING that it won't be incredibly noticeable.
  
 And again, I'm willing to give up a certain level of sparkle for a better sound stage. Sucks that the X5 doesn't have a more open sound because that's really the only thing holding it back. Certainly sounds a LOT better than the X1 and X3K (which I personally, for some reason, just could not stand). DX90 had excellent sound stage but the sound was more dark and not as detailed. 
  
 So yeah, just gotta try it and see but so far it sounds like it's a very nice amp! Better bass/bass boost is awesome, better mids is MORE than welcomed, and wider sound stage sounds fantastic.


----------



## Dobrescu George

androidvageta said:


> Well while I understand what you're talking about, my only option is to just buy and try! I played around with the E1 on the X5 and there's PLENTY of high-end left that it can produce through EQ so even if the E12A is missing that certain "hiss" I'm HOPING that it won't be incredibly noticeable.
> 
> And again, I'm willing to give up a certain level of sparkle for a better sound stage. Sucks that the X5 doesn't have a more open sound because that's really the only thing holding it back. Certainly sounds a LOT better than the X1 and X3K (which I personally, for some reason, just could not stand). DX90 had excellent sound stage but the sound was more dark and not as detailed.
> 
> So yeah, just gotta try it and see but so far it sounds like it's a very nice amp! Better bass/bass boost is awesome, better mids is MORE than welcomed, and wider sound stage sounds fantastic.


 
  
 These surely come in handy. 
  
 Another option for you might be upgrading to X5II. I sold E12A AFTER getting X5II, because I fiind X5II signature more to my liking, but with X5 alone, E12A really made things better. Especially soundstage, because, like you, I was pursuing soundstage with an un-imaginable passion.


----------



## jithu215

I am looking to buy an amp.my choices are e12a and jds lab c5.my dap is x5 and ex1(titan1)iem.I am a very low volume listener,do both of these have channel imbalance problem? I heard both of them are very good sounding amps.which one is better for channel balance?


----------



## Dobrescu George

jithu215 said:


> I am looking to buy an amp.my choices are e12a and jds lab c5.my dap is x5 and ex1(titan1)iem.I am a very low volume listener,do both of these have channel imbalance problem? I heard both of them are very good sounding amps.which one is better for channel balance?


 
  
 E12A has no channel imbalance at low volumes, depends how low volume you listen. But E12A at very low volumes has no channel imbalance. About from 9 AM there is no channel imbalance, and I don't think you would listen at lower volumes than 9 AM. 
 Did you consider upgrading your IEMs?


----------



## jithu215

dobrescu george said:


> E12A has no channel imbalance at low volumes, depends how low volume you listen. But E12A at very low volumes has no channel imbalance. About from 9 AM there is no channel imbalance, and I don't think you would listen at lower volumes than 9 AM.
> Did you consider upgrading your IEMs?


with x5 and ex1 I never crossed 30/120,with cowon c2 and minimal eq I usually listen below 10/40.I am looking forward to buy a73 or yet to be released ath e40.but one thing,I am really happy enjoying my music in low volumes,dont know why above that volume I will get strange headaches and discomfort.


----------



## Dobrescu George

jithu215 said:


> with x5 and ex1 I never crossed 30/120,with cowon c2 and minimal eq I usually listen below 10/40.I am looking forward to buy a73 or yet to be released ath e40.but one thing,I am really happy enjoying my music in low volumes,dont know why above that volume I will get strange headaches and discomfort.


 
  
 There are two or three conditions in medicine about sensitivity to loud sounds. 
  
 But, at that volume even normal talking is audible if someone talks near you, and the noise of the street will be louder when you go outside. 
  
 I listen metal music, which is loud by nature, and I want it louder. It pumps my blood, and gives me a rush. For a reference, I would use 63-84 with ie800 on X5. That would be about the same as using 56-70 with EX1 (If I remember their volume correctly). 
  
 I am not sure if you will get channel imbalance, if you listen that quiet. E12A is very strong, and X5 does not have variable line out volume, and at 9 oclock, when channel imbalance disappears, E12A and C5 will be louder than X5 at 30/120 volume.


----------



## jithu215

dobrescu george said:


> There are two or three conditions in medicine about sensitivity to loud sounds.
> 
> But, at that volume even normal talking is audible if someone talks near you, and the noise of the street will be louder when you go outside.
> 
> ...


so I should stick with my current setup.x5 is a good player on its own,oh but except that soundstage...I thought pairing an amp will benefit.thanx for the information


----------



## Mr Trev

jithu215 said:


> I am looking to buy an amp.my choices are e12a and jds lab c5.my dap is x5 and ex1(titan1)iem.I am a very low volume listener,do both of these have channel imbalance problem? I heard both of them are very good sounding amps.which one is better for channel balance?


 

 Any amp that uses an analogue pot will have an imbalance at low volumes. Don't have a X5, but with my 1st gen X3 the imbalance happens at a volume lower than I typically listen - fighting with ambient background noise when I'm using an iem without strong isolation.


----------



## riodgarp

I believe E12A can produce a nice sound at low volume, I was use my ipod with E12 at 10 o clock volume pot


----------



## jithu215

mr trev said:


> Any amp that uses an analogue pot will have an imbalance at low volumes. Don't have a X5, but with my 1st gen X3 the imbalance happens at a volume lower than I typically listen - fighting with ambient background noise when I'm using an iem without strong isolation.


jds lab c5 has digital volume,so there should be no channel imbalance


----------



## elano68

Hi ,Could you compare e18 kunlun vs e12a
As soundstage,treble especially bass?
I will use 16 ohm iem.


----------



## Dobrescu George

elano68 said:


> Hi ,Could you compare e18 kunlun vs e12a
> As soundstage,treble especially bass?
> I will use 16 ohm iem.


 
  
 Treble is more on E18, smoother on e12a, 
  
 Bass is more on e12a, more organic
  
 soundstage is a bit larger on e18, because of more treble. 
  
 Both have headphones and iems with which they work better.


----------



## elano68

Thank you.Is there small difference at bass?


----------



## Dobrescu George

elano68 said:


> Thank you.Is there small difference at bass?


 
  
 Bass is deeper, goes more low with more power on E12A. Usually.


----------



## Skullbox

dobrescu george said:


> Treble is more on E18, smoother on e12a,
> 
> Bass is more on e12a, more organic
> 
> ...




Could you compare E12a vs E17k
As soundstage, treble, bass ?

I use 31 ohm iem. (Westone 4r) w/ FiiO X3ii DAP.


----------



## Tuneslover

dobrescu george said:


> Bass is deeper, goes more low with more power on E12A. Usually.



Not sure about the E18 but the E12a has a bass boost that works really well in the sub bass region and by not imposing the upper bass.


----------



## riodgarp

Is E12A more warm than E12?


----------



## Skullbox

riodgarp said:


> Is E12A more warm than E12?




Realy dont know which of them is more or less warm. Both amp have Bass Boost option, but with different versions (v.1 v.2) 

Personaly, I will go with the E12a. or E17a

I can suggest reading this forum from the start to know more about them.

"I must caution you though do not expect a totally different sounding amp. The core tonality of the E12 is still there and in some cases you might not initially appreciate the difference on low sensitivity earphones or cans. Do not buy the E12a if you want a different sound, but a different amp if that is your need. Otherwise the tuning down of the bass, the increased sense of space and presence on the mids and vocals as well as the slightly more forward treble performance and extension really suits my listening style and preferences."


" The difference in tonality between the E12 and the E12a is not night and day. In short if you are buying the E12a hoping to get away from the tonal presentation of the E12 then you might be disappointed. That is not to say there are not differences because there is but it’s not a radically different amp in that respect. Both the E12 and the E12a still exhibit a warm to neutral tonality without any peaky spikes and still with a slight bias to the lower mids and bass response only far less so in the E12a. The difference though between the both is in where the emphasis actually is in the frequency response combined with the lower noise levels of the E12a."

Read more: 

http://www.headfonia.com/fiio-e12a-great-budget-iem-amp/

http://headfonics.com/2014/11/the-fiio-e12a-the-iem-amp/



Hope this can help!


----------



## Dobrescu George

riodgarp said:


> Is E12A more warm than E12?


 
  
 I would say yes, because E12 will have hiss on most headphones, and on all IEMs. E12 is clearly made for hard to drive headphones, on which, it sounds great. 
 E12A might sound a bit warmer than E12, but it will be heavily dependent on headphone and IEM matching, not on itself being so. 
  
  


tuneslover said:


> Not sure about the E18 but the E12a has a bass boost that works really well in the sub bass region and by not imposing the upper bass.


 
  
 Oh yeah, totally! 
  
 E12A does not affect mid or upper bass, mostly sub bass and bass, until 100Hz region. 
  
  


skullbox said:


> What about E12a vs E17k ... for using with my X3ii (I know, X3 has already include a good DAC)


 
  
 I *think* that X3II has a better DAC than E17K. 
  
 As Amp goes, E12A is a different beast, I would say a bit better in all departments. Again, it is a matter of taste, and I did not listen extensively to E17k, so I cannot make a detailed comparation.


----------



## 397324

Hi
  
 I'm using a X5ii with Fidue A83 IEM's. I've always used an E12A with the full sized headphones I was using before, but with the Fidue's, I'm not sure I'm not loosing a little detail due to the E12A's warmth?
  
 Anyone have a similar experience?
  
 Regards
  
 Darren


----------



## Skullbox

dobrescu george said:


> I would say yes, because E12 will have hiss on most headphones, and on all IEMs. E12 is clearly made for hard to drive headphones, on which, it sounds great.
> E12A might sound a bit warmer than E12, but it will be heavily dependent on headphone and IEM matching, not on itself being so.
> 
> 
> ...




I "think" BrOOko has a different version on this! He suggesting me E17k over E12a... using with my X3ii. Read his Reviews!


----------



## Dobrescu George

skullbox said:


> I "think" BrOOko has a different version on this! He suggesting me E17k over E12a... using with my X3ii. Read his Reviews!


 
  
 I think I was beaten to it. 
  
 I do not have lots of experience with E17k, just demo'ed it for a short time. 
  
 It is dac + amp, around the same thing as X5, but some people liked E12A more than X5 alone. It is a matter of taste. E17K is closer to neutral and real sound, while E12A is closer to tube amps, or that warm sound.


----------



## DrSHP

i use e12a with fiio x3 ii.the sound is warm and completly silent in background.
i tested audio technica pha100 and pha100 was more detailed but the warmness was close.
in comparison with chord mojo,fiio x7, fiio x5, the e12a has more body in sound and very pleasant for listening,but the formers were more analytical and i was not satisfied with their bass and warmness.
i have not any tube amps ,but with earlier replies i think that can feel tube amp sound.

my writing is awfull,sorry


----------



## blazinblazin

Thanks to the E12A I am able to reduce the Sibilance and enjoy the sound of this IEM.


----------



## Dobrescu George

blazinblazin said:


> Thanks to the E12A I am able to reduce the Sibilance and enjoy the sound of this IEM.


 
  
  
 That is what E12A will do to any IEM. 
  
 But I can't believe there is an IEM that is sibilant after using comply. I need more treble usually, so I am curious on this


----------



## blazinblazin

dobrescu george said:


> That is what E12A will do to any IEM.
> 
> But I can't believe there is an IEM that is sibilant after using comply. I need more treble usually, so I am curious on this




I had already changed to Spinfit tip.
Now I can withstand the Sibilant without comply for most of my music.

It's a Ocharaku Flat4-AKA Type II. An open type IEM.

http://ocharaku.jp/sound/service/


----------



## Skullbox

blazinblazin said:


> Thanks to the E12A I am able to reduce the Sibilance and enjoy the sound of this IEM.




I've see a cap on your X3 Line out jack ... what for, where U get it ?


----------



## notfitforpublic

darren cotter said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm using a X5ii with Fidue A83 IEM's. I've always used an E12A with the full sized headphones I was using before, but with the Fidue's, I'm not sure I'm not loosing a little detail due to the E12A's warmth?
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, experienced something very similar with my Noble 3U's. I got my more preferred sound out of the X3ii on low gain. Still a stellar amp however, the Nobles are just my only IEM.


----------



## Dobrescu George

blazinblazin said:


> I had already changed to Spinfit tip.
> Now I can withstand the Sibilant without comply for most of my music.
> 
> It's a Ocharaku Flat4-AKA Type II. An open type IEM.
> ...


 
  
  
 Between trying to like them blindly and not wanting to argue, the shape seems rather... uncomfortable.


----------



## blazinblazin

skullbox said:


> I've see a cap on your X3 Line out jack ... what for, where U get it ?




That's a X5II audio port. It's just a small dust cover I got last time for my phone. Got it from some China website. 

Since I am not using it, so I think it's good to cover it up.


----------



## blazinblazin

dobrescu george said:


> Between trying to like them blindly and not wanting to argue, the shape seems rather... uncomfortable.




You just plug in all you feel seems to be the tips. Just that you can't sleep on it.


----------



## gEEkzz

Which dap would be good to pair with e12a?
  
 My current setup: iPhone4s + Westone 3 + e12a


----------



## Skullbox

geekzz said:


> Which dap would be good to pair with e12a?
> 
> My current setup: iPhone4s + Westone 3 + e12a




Personaly, I'm using FiiO X3ii DAP, and coupled well with my Westone W4r.

I can recommand rading the FiiO X3 2nd generation forum to get more info...


----------



## Dobrescu George

geekzz said:


> Which dap would be good to pair with e12a?
> 
> My current setup: iPhone4s + Westone 3 + e12a


 
  


skullbox said:


> Personaly, I'm using FiiO X3ii DAP, and coupled well with my Westone W4r.
> 
> I can recommand rading the FiiO X3 2nd generation forum to get more info...


 
  
  
 X3ii, X5ii, both are amazing with E12A.
  
 I can guarantee that for both, you'll be getting a lot of quality for the paid price. Tested both, and I can say that both are great. I would personally go for X5ii, but it's a matter of personal preference.


----------



## Tuneslover

dobrescu george said:


> X3ii, X5ii, both are amazing with E12A.
> 
> I can guarantee that for both, you'll be getting a lot of quality for the paid price. Tested both, and I can say that both are great. I would personally go for X5ii, but it's a matter of personal preference.




I agree, I had the X3ii and then upgraded to the X5ii and both DAP's sound very good with the E12a.


----------



## gEEkzz

Thanks for the recommendations!
  
 Anyone using the E12A for their mobile phones?
  
 I was wondering if I'm limiting the potential of E12A when I connect it to my devices via the headphone out of my mobile devices? (3.5mm)(Double amping)


----------



## Dobrescu George

geekzz said:


> Thanks for the recommendations!
> 
> Anyone using the E12A for their mobile phones?
> 
> I was wondering if I'm limiting the potential of E12A when I connect it to my devices via the headphone out of my mobile devices? (3.5mm)(Double amping)


 
  
 I used it for mobile phone. 
  
 In theory, as long as the volume is at 100% on mobile phone, you should have less signal degradation than if the volume was lower on mobile phone. 
  
 |But double amping will degrade the signal a bit more than if using a line out. How much, is a matter of how much you can hear it, it just is a more or less degraded signal|


----------



## Tayyab Pirzada

I just got my Fiio E12A. It worked for a while but then suddenly it shows the blue light blinking and no sound comes. I pressed reset button with a toothpick and it changes nothing. I charged it fully and still same issue.
  
 Can anyone help?


----------



## FiiO

tayyab pirzada said:


> I just got my Fiio E12A. It worked for a while but then suddenly it shows the blue light blinking and no sound comes. I pressed reset button with a toothpick and it changes nothing. I charged it fully and still same issue.
> 
> Can anyone help?


 
 Tayyab we are so sorry that your E12A may need to be repaired ,please kindly send email to support@fiio.net ,our engineer will help you out, or you can contact the seller .
  
 We are so sorry for this inconvenience.
  
 Best Regards,


----------



## riodgarp

When will fiio to make high end portable amplifier as e12a successor?


----------



## WitzyZed

riodgarp said:


> When will fiio to make high end portable amplifier as e12a successor?




Hard to say when they will release another E12A-like device (amp only).
But they are working on the Q5 a flagship dac/amp. It will probably use 2 akm4490 dac chips, & the amp modules from X7 (AM1, AM2, AM2c, AM3, & AM5). Est cost was $300-400 though, so 2x cost of E12, albeit a wholy new and more functional product.


----------



## FiiO

"Good things",it is worth for waiting


----------



## ShreyasMax

fiio said:


> "Good things",it is worth for waiting:wink_face:




Aha, I like the sound of that!


----------



## Dobrescu George

fiio said:


> "Good things",it is worth for waiting


 
  
 Sure they are! 
  
 I'll be first in line to get one of those DAC + X7 AMP modules ! Since I've got one of those AMOLED phones, I sure need a DAC + AMP solution. And this seems like it's exactly what I need!


----------



## gEEkzz

Just curious, what volume are you guys listening at when driving your high impedance headphones with E12A?
  
 My volume knob is at about 9 o'clock when driving IEMs. (low gain)
  
 When I try to drive my DT770 pro 80ohms, I need to go to about 2-3 o'clock with low gain and about 11 o'clock with high gain.


----------



## Dobrescu George

geekzz said:


> Just curious, what volume are you guys listening at when driving your high impedance headphones with E12A?
> 
> My volume knob is at about 9 o'clock when driving IEMs. (low gain)
> 
> When I try to drive my DT770 pro 80ohms, I need to go to about 2-3 o'clock with low gain and about 11 o'clock with high gain.


 
  
 I haven't tried DT770, so can't comment on it, but with an ultrasone dj one pro, which is rated at 64 OHMs, I tend to listen under 12 o'clock. But they are quite sensitive to volume. Maybe crank it around 13 or 14 o'clock when in need to pump some high volume. 
  
 But for IEMs, somewhere the listening volume was just above the area where the channels were balanced. Like early 9 o'clock. Really low volumes with IEMs.


----------



## blazinblazin

Normally for my IEM I will be listening at 12 o'clock low gain and 10 o'clock high gain when outdoors.


----------



## Namaskar

E12a connected to LO on X5 ... low imp IEMs to max 11 o'clock (that feels close to ear-damaging levels - 12 o'clock would be VERY loud - even for my 50y old ears)
  
 headphones
 Shure 840 up to 1pm on low gain, 11am on high gain
 Senn HD700 up to 3pm lg or 12 on hg
  
 I sometimes wonder how to determine/verify 'safe volume' levels ... thoughts?


----------



## gEEkzz

Thanks for sharing guys.
  
 I just received my HD600 and to my surprise the E12A drives it really well. (Volume wise - HG 10 o'clock） Can't comment on sound quality because this is my first high impedance headphone and first amp as well which is meant for IEM. lol


----------



## FiiO

geekzz said:


> Thanks for sharing guys.
> 
> I just received my HD600 and to my surprise the E12A drives it really well. (Volume wise - HG 10 o'clock） Can't comment on sound quality because this is my first high impedance headphone and first amp as well which is meant for IEM. lol


 
 gEEKzz,
  
 We do hope you enjoy your first high impedance headphone and first Portable AMP.


----------



## alexandros a

do you own a fiio E12A?If yes, do you have any KInd of positive impressions by using it?
Just bought one haven't tested yet with my fiio x3ii and just hoping that this amp can expand the overall soundstage a little more.Thanks Alexandros


----------



## Dobrescu George

alexandros a said:


> do you own a fiio E12A?If yes,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Depends on how you perceive soundstage. 
  
 It expands the soundstage in mids, but has dead black background noise. Depending on your tastes and experience, it will either seriously improve sounstage, or be too clean. Like a slight rolloff in treble. 
  
 all the people who heard it loved it, so no reason to worry. It is an upgrade over X3ii original sound.


----------



## blazinblazin

I use it with X5II.
  
 Depends on the headphones I use, I might or not use it.


----------



## DrSHP

i use fiio e12a with x3 ii.
this amp is brilliant and a huge upgrade to origimal amp of x3ii.
everything goes better and the sound is like tube amp.
very pleasing.


----------



## alexandros a

drshp said:


> i use fiio e12a with x3 ii.
> this amp is brilliant and a huge upgrade to origimal amp of x3ii.
> everything goes better and the sound is like tube amp.
> very pleasing.


 
 Hi there,i have the same combofiio (e12a with x3ii), havent try yet e12a with x3ii, are you suggesting that this amp is an overall upgrade of the original sonics of x3ii(soundstage,imaging,instument separation?)Or is this upgrade depends on what IEMs you use with that combo?For etc, i use mostly Dunu DN2000/Fidue A73, will there be any improve by using E12A as well as far as you know?


----------



## pranavtripathi

Hello, I'm a newbie here so pardon me if I say something naive. 
I have a Fiio X1 and I have been using AKG K240 MKll Headphones with RHA MA600 Earphones. I have previously used the Fiio E11k amplifier as well. Someone earlier said about the current version of Fiio E12 having corrected the problems of hiss noticed in their prior models. Has anyone noticed that? Fiio e12 seems to be within my budget rather than the Fiio E12A. Any inputs will help me out. 
Thank You.


----------



## DrSHP

hi.e12a is completely hiss free.
total black background with hiss sensitive earphones.
a new model is coming : fiio a5


----------



## pranavtripathi

Hi, yes I heard the E12a is hiss free. But the Fiio E12 seems to be within my budget. Hence I wanted to know if the current Fiio E12 has the problem of hiss completely rectified?


----------



## Dobrescu George

pranavtripathi said:


> Hi, yes I heard the E12a is hiss free. But the Fiio E12 seems to be within my budget. Hence I wanted to know if the current Fiio E12 has the problem of hiss completely rectified?



 


E12 normal has hiss with sensitive IEMs as it was made to drive very hard to drive headphones. 

I love it's sound, but the hiss is there.


----------



## Dobrescu George

pranavtripathi said:


> Hi, yes I heard the E12a is hiss free. But the Fiio E12 seems to be within my budget. Hence I wanted to know if the current Fiio E12 has the problem of hiss completely rectified?



 


E12 normal has hiss with sensitive IEMs as it was made to drive very hard to drive headphones. 

I love it's sound, but the hiss is there.


----------



## pranavtripathi

Would you say that using a Fiio X1 ( and I'm playing only FLAC) I will be able to differentiate between Fiio E12 and E12a? Is the hiss present on low gain too? And does it prove to be annoying while the music plays or is it gone?

Thank You.


----------



## DrSHP

hiss depends on what iem or headphone u use.
what are u using?


----------



## alexandros a

Hey there,i bought recently E12A to use it with my fiio x1 & x3ii, i choosed E12A over the E12 due to the fact that i mainly use iems and the hiss issue regarding iem use-only,was mentioned in every review of e12 around the net i read


----------



## pranavtripathi

I'm currently using RHA MA600 as of now along with AKG K240 MKll Headphones with 55ohm impedance. But they need more power. 
From the perspective of a future investment, what would bring the most change in the sound? A newer DAP like Fiio X3 2nd gen? Or a better IEM/Headphone? Please suggest.

Thank You so much.


----------



## alexandros a

Furthermore,you should contact directly Fiio technical support at support@fiio.net i had contacted theme in the past too having some issues,and ask them directly if the new line of e12a is hiss-free for iem users,doubt it though,E12A in order of being able to drive full sized cans of high impedance cant really cope with low sensitivity iems without produsinh hiss.my advise:take your time dont jump quickly to a descicion, E12A worths a little more walting and can drive most of big cans easily i myself havent used it yet once i try E12A in a few days with x1 & x3ii i will let you know about the sound quality ,cheers


----------



## pranavtripathi

Thank You so much. Please do let me know your thoughts once you've tested both the Fiio DAPs. I shall contact the Fiio Support directly then.


----------



## alexandros a

Sorry man didnt see your post there(was typing my 2nd message)well to be honest i firstly purchased x1 and three months later bought the x3ii.Note that x3ii has a compination of 2 crystals oscillators internal & additionaly a potentiometer of 120 steps opposite to x1 100 steps.this means that gives you more power and louder volume control if your issue is power related.furthermore x3 2nd gen is a more neutral source with a more flat-accurate responce across the frequency spectrum,more balanced and refined sound,a step up to X1.Despite all that, lately i have been using more over my x1 over the x3ii,X1 is a warmer more organig sounding dap perfect also in terms of high resolution audio to me, but tends to get a tinny more treble-hot at really high volumes,nevertheless with FidueA73 (which i mostly use)hybrid iems it is a real gem.This is my honest suggestion:leave aside e12 or e12a or even buying x3ii for the time being and spend your money on fidue A73 hybrid iem if your goal is a different upgraded sound signature,overall in terms of soundstage,adoring vocals,extended treble,instrument separation this fidue is a sound masterpiece.I believe it retails for 140$ or so on amazon.just go for it,with your X1 you will be mesmerized!!


----------



## pranavtripathi

Could you suggest some IEMs under 100 dollars then? I'd really save up for Fiio X3 2nd gen. Could do with more power and a better DAC for Studio Headphones I have.


----------



## alexandros a

Yes of course, i can fully recommend fiio EX1 iem,which i own too,EX1 is in fact the famous dunu-titan 1 under fiio's monliker.Dunu, world famous iem label co-operated with Fiio in order to produce their world class iem(dunu titan 1) and the result was fiio EX1.As for the sound quality it is completely transparent sounding, with wide soundstage semi-open design ,suberb treble extension and airy midrange vocals section.There is more than enough space beetwen the instruments ,top clarity. All these done thanks to titanium dynamic drivers inside of it,if you enjoy a wide transparent airy soundstage you will love it,price under 100$


----------



## pranavtripathi

I looked at them, but they offer poor isolation for the kind of design(open) they have. Could you recommend something which would offer more isolation?


----------



## alexandros a

Fidue A71Ti,Fidue A65,SonyMDR650 brass edition & RHA MA750 all these flat sounding allrounders and have a look at the sennheiser momentum in ears if you like a more V shaped sound signature.all under 100$


----------



## alexandros a

I forgot to mention trinity delta iem, a two-way hybrid iem with changeable tuning filters,you can choose which filter adjusts to your sound preferences,it is of high sound quality iems,i myself have bought iems from trinity audio maybe this is the best choise for you check it out,quite cheap despite their high quality.


----------



## pranavtripathi

I will check them out. Thanks! Please do post ypur thoughts on X3 2nd gen vs X1. Will help me greatly.


----------



## alexandros a

Ok man, i' ll give more details tommorow,take care Alexandros. 
PS the company is:trinity audio engineering


----------



## Skullbox

What about using E12a + FiiO X3ii with Senn HD600 (300ohm) !?! Is E17k will b more appropriated ?


----------



## alexandros a

Hey Pravantripathi,have you made a choise about iem upgrade or not yet?


----------



## pranavtripathi

I've searched a bit and found Etymotic HF5 to be a pretty good pair. And I read about Triple 1More. How do they sound?


----------



## pranavtripathi

I





skullbox said:


> What about using E12a + FiiO X3ii with Senn HD600 (300ohm) !?! Is E17k will b more appropriated ?


 

I guess E12a, because it would have more power? If the full potential is to be exploited, many members have suggested the use of Fiio E12 as well. Has more power. Fiio is also releasing an even better Amplifier called Fiio A5. It should be available next month.


----------



## alexandros a

Well check 1 More Triple reviews firstly, i think right now these are the less expensive triple drivers iems in the market and as i can recall they were given quite good ranks by many reviewers,being balanced,accurate with nice imaging and separation.Haven't heard any of those two to be honest but 1 more Triple seems to be highly appreciated lately and quit e low priced for a two balanced armature & one dynamic drivers IEM. Etymotics are in the audio marke tfor quite a while and well known for their clarity/transparency/detail factors but never really drew my interest due to their difficulties as far as isolation goes (double flanges. dont seem to fit and close my ear canals).you have to try those to be completely sure that isolation is not a big issue


----------



## pranavtripathi

I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!!


----------



## pranavtripathi

I





alexandros a said:


> I forgot to mention trinity delta iem, a two-way hybrid iem with changeable tuning filters,you can choose which filter adjusts to your sound preferences,it is of high sound quality iems,i myself have bought iems from trinity audio maybe this is the best choise for you check it out,quite cheap despite their high quality.


 

I looked up Trinity Delta Earphones. Their version2 is out. I have used a sister company product. Rock Jaw Alpha Genus V2. They also had tunable filters and I loved the sound. The Trinity Delta Earphones are not available anywhere. Could you help me find a link?

Thanks!


----------



## kfarndog

pranavtripathi said:


> I've searched a bit and found Etymotic HF5 to be a pretty good pair. And I read about Triple 1More. How do they sound?


 
 The HF5 is a very good IEM with great isolation and an extremely neutral sound to them.  They, and the Final Audio Heaven II, are my recommendations to any one looking for a great value with a $100 budget.  Both the Etymotic HF5 and Final Heaven II are often overlooked.


----------



## alexandros a

pranavtripathi said:


> I
> 
> 
> I looked up Trinity Delta Earphones. Their version2 is out. I have used a sister company product. Rock Jaw Alpha Genus V2. They also had tunable filters and I loved the sound. The Trinity Delta Earphones are not available anywhere. Could you help me find a link?
> ...


 
 Hey, you can preorder their newests models through Trinity Audio Engineering site 1st model is trinity atlas-delta hybrid in ear monitor and the 2nd one is trinity Hyperion a much more cheaper one,check them out.i recently preordered phantom master 4 from the same site,Bob who is the chief production manager there is quite a cool guy,and remember apart from what i mentioned about x3ii sound esque,the real change in sound quality will be provided by a new high end IEM and not from a new upgraded DAP.Daps have little to do with upgrading sound qualtity especially if you already own X1 which is trully exceptional.i will post anyways differences in sound quality beetwen the two fiio daps but dont expect big ones...


----------



## hong

Ok so my E12A just died (kinda). Are there any guides out there on replacing the batteries by myself, and if not, are there any recommendations for similar sounding portable amps? Thanks!


----------



## FiiO

hong said:


> Ok so my E12A just died (kinda). Are there any guides out there on replacing the batteries by myself, and if not, are there any recommendations for similar sounding portable amps? Thanks!


 
 Hi, hong
  
 It is suggested to checked the baterry life of your E12A first. When using a DC 5V/ 2A USB charging adapter (recommended), a full charge takes about 3 hours. When using computer USB port(not recommended), a full charge takes about 8 hours.
  
 We have instrution about replacing the battery of the E12A: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=8BAEEC4662EA146C!245&authkey=!ANM_SYIsVip_peo&ithint=file%2cpdf
  
 If you need a battery for the E12A, you can send email  to support@fiio.net. We will provide help for you.
  
 If you want a new AMP, maybe the coming A5 will be suitable for you.


----------



## hong

fiio said:


> Hi, hong
> 
> It is suggested to checked the baterry life of your E12A first. When using a DC 5V/ 2A USB charging adapter (recommended), a full charge takes about 3 hours. When using computer USB port(not recommended), a full charge takes about 8 hours.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sweet, thanks for the guide! I've tried charging it couple of times, but both times it died within 3 hours. I'll do a full charge again, and if it doesn't work I'll drop you guys an email regarding a replacement battery.
  
 When will the A5 be available?


----------



## pranavtripathi

hong said:


> Sweet, thanks for the guide! I've tried charging it couple of times, but both times it died within 3 hours. I'll do a full charge again, and if it doesn't work I'll drop you guys an email regarding a replacement battery.
> 
> When will the A5 be available?




According to the Facebook page, it should be around 20th of October. 
@FiiO have the tour units been sent?


----------



## FiiO

pranavtripathi said:


> hong said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet, thanks for the guide! I've tried charging it couple of times, but both times it died within 3 hours. I'll do a full charge again, and if it doesn't work I'll drop you guys an email regarding a replacement battery.
> ...


 
 Hi, pranavtripathi
  
 Do you mean the tour for A5? It hasn't begun now. We will make a post when it begin.


----------



## pranavtripathi

fiio said:


> Hi, pranavtripathi
> 
> Do you mean the tour for A5? It hasn't begun now. We will make a post when it begin.




Thank You. Also, can you confirm any dates for the F1 and F3 IEMs. When are they expected to be released? The flagship Q5?


----------



## hong

pranavtripathi said:


> Thank You. Also, can you confirm any dates for the F1 and F3 IEMs. When are they expected to be released? The flagship Q5?


 
  
 Yeah, I'm also looking forward to the flagship Q5, might end up trying that out as the replacement for the E12A if it dies (which I really hope not)!


----------



## TheoS53

hong said:


> Yeah, I'm also looking forward to the flagship Q5, might end up trying that out as the replacement for the E12A if it dies (which I really hope not)!


 
 Why would you replace the E12A with the Q5? The replacement of the E12A is the A5


----------



## blazinblazin

I think cause it's Fiio top of the line AMP.
 So instead of going for the same AMP he wants an upgrade.


----------



## TheoS53

blazinblazin said:


> I think cause it's Fiio top of the line AMP.
> So instead of going for the same AMP he wants an upgrade.


 
 But the Q5 is not just an AMP, it's also a DAC. The Q5 is the replacement of the E18, not the E12A or E12.

 So the only reason I asked is because I'm not sure how he intends to use the device. If he only needs an AMP, sonically the A5 would *probably* be better than the Q5 (when using only the AMP section of the Q5).......the Q5 would only make sense if he needs the DAC functionality as well


----------



## hong

theos53 said:


> But the Q5 is not just an AMP, it's also a DAC. The Q5 is the replacement of the E18, not the E12A or E12.
> 
> So the only reason I asked is because I'm not sure how he intends to use the device. If he only needs an AMP, sonically the A5 would *probably* be better than the Q5 (when using only the AMP section of the Q5).......the Q5 would only make sense if he needs the DAC functionality as well


 
  
 So I can use it as a DAC with my phone as well?


----------



## TheoS53

hong said:


> So I can use it as a DAC with my phone as well?


 
 the Q5, yes..but not the E12A or the upcoming A5


----------



## hong

theos53 said:


> the Q5, yes..but not the E12A or the upcoming A5


 
  
 For some reason the E12A sounds really ****ty with my phone, so I'm hoping with the Q5 it helps to improve that. At least with the Q5, I guess I'll be able to use it both with the X3 and my phone. Using an Asus Zenfone 3 btw.


----------



## TheoS53

hong said:


> For some reason the E12A sounds really ****ty with my phone, so I'm hoping with the Q5 it helps to improve that. At least with the Q5, I guess I'll be able to use it both with the X3 and my phone. Using an Asus Zenfone 3 btw.


 
 Well, if the phone doesn't have a lineout function, then all your'e doing is double amping the signal with the E12A.


----------



## Skullbox

E12a vs A5 interesting thread!!! 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/819831/the-fiio-a5-thread-an-upgrade-of-e12a-muses02-lme49600-800mw-19vp-p-12-hours


----------



## FiiO

skullbox said:


> E12a vs A5 interesting thread!!!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/819831/the-fiio-a5-thread-an-upgrade-of-e12a-muses02-lme49600-800mw-19vp-p-12-hours


 
 Hi, Skullbox
 Our A5 has already released:
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  http://www.head-fi.org/t/822914/fiio-releases-the-new-amplifier-a5-that-strives-for-perfection


----------



## Dobrescu George

fiio said:


> Hi, Skullbox
> Our A5 has already released:   http://www.head-fi.org/t/822914/fiio-releases-the-new-amplifier-a5-that-strives-for-perfection




Can't wait for it to reach Romania! 

Sounds like an amp thats really going to be sweet. 

Also, can't wait for q5 to be ready, it got many people hyper up by now since the interchangeable amps like those in x7 sound really good.


----------



## snellemin

So since I'm waiting for the FIIO Q5 to hit the market, I decided to swap out the opamp in my FIIO E12A.  Basically made a poor man "FIIO E12A DIY" for IEM's.  Desoldering the Muses02 was a bit of challenge due to the soft legs.   Installed the AD797 that came with the E12DIY kit.  Sounds really nice.


----------



## Tuneslover

I'm on a trip all day today so I grabbed my X5ii, Westone UM Pro30's and E12a as I headed out the door. En route I discovered that I accidentally forgot to shut off the E12a from my last listening session, and yup it's drained. Oh well, no problem the X5ii has its own built in amp. I have always tethered the E12a to the X5ii, preferring the E12a amp sound. Today I'm listening through the X5ii amp, although good sounding I personally miss the E12a's clearer and more detailed sound. I find the E12a much more dynamic sounding. My UMPro30's sound warm (verging on muddy) straight out of the X5ii. I'm glad I decided to keep the E12a after I purchased the X5ii!


----------



## TheoS53

tuneslover said:


> I'm on a trip all day today so I grabbed my X5ii, Westone UM Pro30's and E12a as I headed out the door. En route I discovered that I accidentally forgot to shut off the E12a from my last listening session, and yup it's drained. Oh well, no problem the X5ii has its own built in amp. I have always tethered the E12a to the X5ii, preferring the E12a amp sound. Today I'm listening through the X5ii amp, although good sounding I personally miss the E12a's clearer and more detailed sound. I find the E12a much more dynamic sounding. My UMPro30's sound warm (verging on muddy) straight out of the X5ii. I'm glad I decided to keep the E12a after I purchased the X5ii!




When I stacked the e12a to the new X1 I was pleasantly impressed with how much it improved the sound. So recently I got to review the DX80 and wanted to see how the e12a will improve it. All I can say is HOLY Damn.. The e12a completely ruins its sound. Such a narrow sound stage in comparison. So weird


----------



## Dobrescu George

theos53 said:


> When I stacked the e12a to the new X1 I was pleasantly impressed with how much it improved the sound. So recently I got to review the DX80 and wanted to see how the e12a will improve it. All I can say is HOLY Damn.. The e12a completely ruins its sound. Such a narrow sound stage in comparison. So weird


 
  
 This is how it felt when using E12A with x5ii. 
  
 With x5, e12a made the sound incredibly better. 
  
 with x5ii, it did not. 
  
 Seems the psychoacoustics are strong with this Amp, and the synnergy is extraordinairy important when pairing it with a DAC.


----------



## Tuneslover

dobrescu george said:


> This is how it felt when using E12A with x5ii.
> 
> With x5, e12a made the sound incredibly better.
> 
> ...



That's unfortunate. Myself, I much prefer he X5ii with the E12a.


----------



## alexandros a

Dont know about you guys, but the moment i plugged E12a to X3ii its a conbo permanently,that happened two months ago and i was totally impressed with E12A's ability to enhance X3ii's sound,soundstage and separation got immediatelly better,and i even managed to hear details in most flac recordings i wasnt able to obtain earlier.Totally black background environment with the majority of my iems(fidue A73,dunu DN2000j,Fiio EX1,RHA 750,havent tried though with full sized headphones,but i am absolutely satisfyed with any iem performance on E12A...


----------



## grininja

Hi.
 I was thinking of buying the *FiiO E12A *for using it as a desktop amp for a pair of  *Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250Ohm. *Do you think this is ok? Will it be enough power for the headphones? And will it be ok to leave the amp always connected to the usb power source?


----------



## blazinblazin

Not sure but A5 will be a better choice


----------



## perseffect

Apologies if this is posted in the wrong place, perhaps you could point me in the right direction.  I've been pairing my e12a with an X5ii to great effect this past year or so.  I happened to let the e12a go completely flat (zero battery) and now it won't charge at all, all I get is a rapidly blinking red light.
  
 I've tried different cables, and charging locations but to the same effect.  Pressing reset also does nothing.  Hoping to not have to buy a new one as this one is only about 20 months old.  Any ideas anyone?  Thanks.


----------



## ceemsc

perseffect said:


> Apologies if this is posted in the wrong place, perhaps you could point me in the right direction.  I've been pairing my e12a with an X5ii to great effect this past year or so.  I happened to let the e12a go completely flat (zero battery) and now it won't charge at all, all I get is a rapidly blinking red light.
> 
> I've tried different cables, and charging locations but to the same effect.  Pressing reset also does nothing.  Hoping to not have to buy a new one as this one is only about 20 months old.  Any ideas anyone?  Thanks.




A few thoughts :

- My E12 does the same thing if not enough charging power from a laptop USB so try a mains power plug adapter to USB instead.
- Rechargeable batteries might struggle to get going again ; either you have to re-try several times or accept the battery is dead... Not sure if the battery is replaceable but the E12 apparently uses a Samsung S3 so you might be able to get an equivalent replacement for the E12a.
- 20months while not old is past any budget electronic 12 month guarantee... It may be worth investigating a worthy replacement such as the FiiO A5?


----------



## FiiO

perseffect said:


> Apologies if this is posted in the wrong place, perhaps you could point me in the right direction.  I've been pairing my e12a with an X5ii to great effect this past year or so.  I happened to let the e12a go completely flat (zero battery) and now it won't charge at all, all I get is a rapidly blinking red light.
> 
> I've tried different cables, and charging locations but to the same effect.  Pressing reset also does nothing.  Hoping to not have to buy a new one as this one is only about 20 months old.  Any ideas anyone?  Thanks.


 
 Hi, perseffect
 If you keep charging the E12A, can other functions work normally?


----------



## perseffect

Thanks for the responses.  I cannot get it to work even when plugged into mains source,  the blue light comes on (sometimes blinking, sometimes solid) but no music will play through it when I hook up the X5ii.
  
 Looks like its a dud.


----------



## FiiO

perseffect said:


> Thanks for the responses.  I cannot get it to work even when plugged into mains source,  the blue light comes on (sometimes blinking, sometimes solid) but no music will play through it when I hook up the X5ii.
> 
> Looks like its a dud.


 
 Hi, perseffect
 Sorry to hear about that. Maybe you can try to change the sound source and the cables to see whether the issue happens in E12A only because of the battery. Or you may need to send it back to us for repair.


----------



## Mr Trev

I've never had to use the reset myself, but is a "hold for 10 sec." type thing??


----------



## FiiO

mr trev said:


> I've never had to use the reset myself, but is a "hold for 10 sec." type thing??


 
 Hi, Mr Trev






 The reset may not take 10 seconds. You can just poke the Reset hole with an unfolded paper clip or other slender tools if you need.


----------



## flognarde

Too broke to upgrade my X5II with a better DAP (Cayin, Colorfly...) I purchased a mint condition E12A and my first impressions are rather positive. The improvement is not massive but interesting;
 A little more air, more detailed trebbles bust most important the bass switch ! I hate bloated bass but this switch is remarquable ! It just adds a little sub bass without any leak in the rest of the spectrum. Quite usefull and tastefull with some IEM's like my Shure SE425 and some recordings. 
 It needs more testing but so far so good : Slight improvement, good fit and finish, great battery life, barely heats up.
 By the way an interesting Black Friday (quite rare) at the french site Audiophonics.fr : you can get the last ones for 100€ brand new !


----------



## flognarde

Regarding fit and finish, too things should be improved and might be in its A5 repllacement. Top and bottom parts don't perfectly match the body. And the volume knob, with its great checkering doesn't have a great feel when turned.


----------



## fourrobert13

I picked one of these up from Amazon since the price has come down due to the A5 being released. Didn't really need it, but I wanted to use it with my X5II to get better battery life from it. I did the same thing when I had my X3II. I only use IEMs anymore so this made more sense than getting the A5 IMO.


----------



## fourrobert13

I got my amp yesterday. Works fine and no complaints. I did have lower the line out to -6db on my X5II to accommodate my EX1 otherwise just turning the amp on was almost too loud.


----------



## BoomBap08

Anybody in here tried pairing up the E12A with Benjie S5?


----------



## DrSHP

boombap08 said:


> Anybody in here tried pairing up the E12A with Benjie S5?



Hi.i think that s5 dosn't have line out and headphone out is not good for external amp.
I use e12a with x3 ii and from line out tje sound improves.
But when using amp with headphone amp of my mobile ,the sound is poor in quality.


----------



## Dobrescu George

drshp said:


> Hi.i think that s5 dosn't have line out and headphone out is not good for external amp.
> I use e12a with x3 ii and from line out tje sound improves.
> But when using amp with headphone amp of my mobile ,the sound is poor in quality.


 
  
 Yes, you need a line out to take advantage of an AMP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 E12A + X3ii is a great combination! Also X5ii and X5-3 + E12A are great combos!


----------



## BoomBap08

yep, I know that very well but I've already tried amping the s5 with fiio a1 and a3 and I must say, there's no degradation in sq in any way and truth be told, the sq scales up even when the s5 is hooked up thru the HO. but still, synergy is key.

anyway, the reason I asked this was because I'm contemplating what to get between the topping nx1a and fiio e12a as I'm also planning to pair one of them with a fiio x3ii or 5ii sometime next month.


----------



## lax013

Would the E12A be okay to drive a pair of 12Ω CKR100's from Audio Technica? Not really getting enough power out of my Xperia Z3 and they aren't sounding too great at the moment.


----------



## flognarde

Quite certain it would... You won't even need to swith to high gain.


----------



## DrSHP

lax013 said:


> Would the E12A be okay to drive a pair of 12Ω CKR100's from Audio Technica? Not really getting enough power out of my Xperia Z3 and they aren't sounding too great at the moment.


hi.the e12a is a perfect solution for sensitive and hungry iems,but from headphone out of mobile phones,it performs suboptimal.
I recommend to buy a dedicated dap like x3 ii or x1 ii or something like that.
Or change your mobile phone and buy something like lg v10 or v20 that performe in quality and power near to daps.
Excuse me for suggestions but i have tested e12a with smartphones and not satisfied.


----------



## alexandros a

lax013 said:


> Would the E12A be okay to drive a pair of 12Ω CKR100's from Audio Technica? Not really getting enough power out of my Xperia Z3 and they aren't sounding too great at the moment.



YES IY WILL BE PERFECTLY...
I own E12a for 8 months now i have pretry much tested it with any portable source never had tos switch to high gain with any of my IEMS in low gain the sound is just awesome GO for it...
You aint gonna regret this...Its a top tier quality sound specifically designed for any sensitive iem out thete...Zero background noise...Amazing. smooth top end Wide soundstage....Do not hesitate GOfor it...


----------



## Dobrescu George

alexandros a said:


> YES IY WILL BE PERFECTLY...
> I own E12a for 8 months now i have pretry much tested it with any portable source never had tos switch to high gain with any of my IEMS in low gain the sound is just awesome GO for it...
> You aint gonna regret this...Its a top tier quality sound specifically designed for any sensitive iem out thete...Zero background noise...Amazing. smooth top end Wide soundstage....Do not hesitate GOfor it...


 
  
 If someone likes smooth top end, E12A is probably my favorite AMP of the moment. Still gotta try A5 in depth, but E12A is indeed great!


----------



## meadomakr

New to amps but the E12A is what I chose. So far not too impressed - sorry! Soundstage is flat and bass sort bleeds all over in a muddy way. Volume bass kinda maxed out and meh. Using cable it came with, an iPhone, and 1More e1001 IEMs- which I'm also not thrilled with! I was trying to keep it economical but obv I gotta spend more. Would a diff connector help?I may not have the ideal setup



reihead said:


> Already up on the Fiio Website, very interesting....
> 
> http://www.fiio.net/products/index.aspx?ID=100000060421524&MenuID=105026001
> 
> ...


----------



## docholliday

meadomakr said:


> New to amps but the E12A is what I chose. So far not too impressed - sorry! Soundstage is flat and bass sort bleeds all over in a muddy way. Volume bass kinda maxed out and meh. Using cable it came with, an iPhone, and 1More e1001 IEMs- which I'm also not thrilled with! I was trying to keep it economical but obv I gotta spend more. Would a diff connector help?I may not have the ideal setup


 
 Cables won't help. But, a better source and better IEMs will. I don't have a problem at all with the E12a's soundstage or bass, even without the "boost" turned on. Even with my smallest source, the X1-II, and it's EQ set flat, stage is clear and bass is smooth without any bleed. Also, are your running compressed or lossless files? That can make a huge difference in how bass seems to bleed.
  
 Oh, and those 1More's are hybrids with the dynamic driver... I had heard those before, and they have some of the crappiest, sloppiest bass I'd ever heard. No accuracy at all.


----------



## Dobrescu George

meadomakr said:


> New to amps but the E12A is what I chose. So far not too impressed - sorry! Soundstage is flat and bass sort bleeds all over in a muddy way. Volume bass kinda maxed out and meh. Using cable it came with, an iPhone, and 1More e1001 IEMs- which I'm also not thrilled with! I was trying to keep it economical but obv I gotta spend more. Would a diff connector help?I may not have the ideal setup


 
 Your IEMs are not the best, and you're double amping the signal. You need something with Line Out to feed the signal to E12A to take full advantage of its sound.


----------



## meadomakr

dobrescu george said:


> Your IEMs are not the best, and you're double amping the signal. You need something with Line Out to feed the signal to E12A to take full advantage of its sound.


----------



## meadomakr

Something with line out? Plz explain


----------



## Dobrescu George

meadomakr said:


> Something with line out? Plz explain


 
  
 E12A is an amp, it is supposed to take in Line signal, not headphone out signal.. 
  
 If you're using the headphone jack of any device, you're feeding it headphone signal, which is amped already. Double amping distorts the signal and it will sound worse than the original source - E.G. your phone
  
 The idea is to use an amp with a device that has line out signal . Line out is unamped signal with high voltage, while amped signal has lower voltage but higher power.


----------



## meadomakr

dobrescu george said:


> E12A is an amp, it is supposed to take in Line signal, not headphone out signal..
> thanks for that! So are you talking about using a DAP instead of the iPhone with this setup?
> 
> If you're using the headphone jack of any device, you're feeding it headphone signal, which is amped already. Double amping distorts the signal and it will sound worse than the original source - E.G. your phone
> ...


----------



## fourrobert13

meadomakr said:


> Something with line out? Plz explain



He's suggesting using a dedicated DAP that has a line out rather than using the headphone out of your phone. I agree with George that running your headphone out into your amp is the problem and not the amp. Like he said, double amping is ruining the sound.

ETA: You could look into a DAC to use with your phone. You'd need the lightening connector. Something like an Oppo or E17k and use your digital out instead of the headphone out.


----------



## mrconfuse

I recently got the E12A, the amp sounds nice but i find that even at the lowest volume it's still a bit too loud for me when I'm in a quiet room. (I'm using Westone UM PRO 10). I think I'm going to need something with higher impedance


----------



## fourrobert13

mrconfuse said:


> I recently got the E12A, the amp sounds nice but i find that even at the lowest volume it's still a bit too loud for me when I'm in a quiet room. (I'm using Westone UM PRO 10). I think I'm going to need something with higher impedance



What do you have it paired with? Some DAPs allow you to adjust the line out signal to accommodate this. I know my FiiO X3II and X5II would allow me to do it.


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## Dobrescu George

fourrobert13 said:


> What do you have it paired with? Some DAPs allow you to adjust the line out signal to accommodate this. I know my FiiO X3II and X5II would allow me to do it.


 
  
 Very good advice! 
  
  


mrconfuse said:


> I recently got the E12A, the amp sounds nice but i find that even at the lowest volume it's still a bit too loud for me when I'm in a quiet room. (I'm using Westone UM PRO 10). I think I'm going to need something with higher impedance


 
  
 You can get one of those impedance increasers if you feel the need 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 But yeah, E12A is pretty strong 
  
 Also, make sure your gain is on low.


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## mrconfuse

I'm pairing it with the original AK100 (AK100 had a 22ohm and all my IEMs are low impedance). Without the E12A bass and sub-bass is sorta of anemic. it's like the drums and snares were all moved into another room while the strings and vocals were in one room. I tried one of those impedance adapters but from what i can tell they won't fix impedance mismatch.


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## fourrobert13

mrconfuse said:


> I'm pairing it with the original AK100. Without the E12A bass and sub-bass is sorta of anemic. it's like the drums and snares were all moved into another room while the strings and vocals were in one room.



I have no knowledge regarding the features of that DAP. Perhaps someone else can chime in that does.


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## meadomakr

Thx guys- really appreciate the info!



fourrobert13 said:


> He's suggesting using a dedicated DAP that has a line out rather than using the headphone out of your phone. I agree with George that running your headphone out into your amp is the problem and not the amp. Like he said, double amping is ruining the sound.
> 
> ETA: You could look into a DAC to use with your phone. You'd need the lightening connector. Something like an Oppo or E17k and use your digital out instead of the headphone out.


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## Pilocereus

Good day!Tell me how to take it apart.I can't do it.Interferes with the Bass switch.Thanks.


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## FiiO

Pilocereus said:


> Good day!Tell me how to take it apart.I can't do it.Interferes with the Bass switch.Thanks.


Dear friend,

You may read the instruction for disassembling the E12 to see if it helps: Click here

Best regards


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