# ALO Pan Am desktop/portable headphone amp/DAC: Impressions and Reviews



## shigzeo

Full review is up at TouchMyApps now. Full benchmarks for performance will be posted tomorrow. 
   
  I assume that Pan Am users will start to blossom out of this forum soon enough. I've been using one ahead of schedule (thank you ALO) for about two weeks now and wrote my preliminary impressions at TouchMyApps. They haven't changed. This is a great all-in-one desktop AND portable system for users who are not satisfied using portable-only systems near their desks or in their HiFi systems. 
   
  Reviews are few and far between so far. My official one will be up and out I hope within the next week. For now, make do with TouchMyApps' short impressions. 
   
*Likes:*
  Modularity
  Portability
  Power
  Low noise
  Customisability 
   
*Wants:*
  Coaxial input either 3,5 or RCA
  Slightly lower gain (for earphone usage)
   
  That said, earphones are almost no problem at all because gain isn't aggressive at all. It mimics ALO's portable amplifiers such as the National, making usage with say, FitEar To Go! 334 a breeze. But, it gets my favourite headphones up to where they don't need to go in terms of volume whilst being distortion free. 
   
  People who know me, know that I listen at reasonable volumes, but when I test amps, I stress them, make sure they push a headphone until clipping/phase errors strain the signal and measure how far the volume pot and gain mode sets against the amp. The Pan Am has far more than enough for my DT880 600Ω (admittedly an easy to drive headphone), sliding nearly into the position occupied by the larger Graham Slee Ultra Linear Diamond. Power is no problem. 
   
  I'm still not done testing all my headphones (takes too long for me to do this, I admit) but I'm impressed. The sound is more The National than it is The Continental, which fits my tastes. The valves aren't bottom heavy nor are they dulling. I think this system is very very well thought out. 
   
  Currently, ALOAudio have the Pan Am up on their home page: http://www.aloaudio.com
   
*Specs are: *
   
 Optional Accessory: The PassPort

 Dimensions:​124mm (L) x 98mm (W) x (36)mm (H)

 Battery Play Time:​10 hours

 Battery Recharge Time:​5-6 hours

 Frequency Response :​+/- 1 dB:40 Hz - 30kHz

 Input Impedance:​10KOhms

 Channel Tracking:​< +/- 0.2dB

 THD+N:​1%

   
  So far, I've found these reviews:
TouchMyApps
AudioHead


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## wes008

Thanks for linking! I really want it, but it's a little out of my price range right now  Any added details are appreciated


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## shigzeo

Well, my review will be up early next week. It is a fine amp - particularly that it travels so well is interesting. I've now used it in the same day at home, at my office, and whilst doing dishes (I don't recommend this at all). 
   
  Again, noise level is low, and if you use USB, you can lower the volume of the computer so that you get 100% balanced volume (despite a pretty spot on volume pot) at low volume levels. 
   
  A few things I've noticed: If you plug a headphone into the 3,5mm jack, the larger 6,3mm jack will not work. Similarly if you plug into the 6,3mm, the 3,5mm will not work. In other words, they don't run concurrently and obviously sport some sort of sensor that preempts the other jack.


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## palchiu

Cool stuff!
   
  Thanks!


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## Rossliew

How much power does it output? Would be great if it can power my HE-5LE and being a portable, that is the attractiveness to me. Thanks for the heads-up review


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## shigzeo

It can power the HE-5LE, however, I don't know your listening or 'comfort' requirements. I consider anything over 90dB off limits and hardly ever listen above 80dB. I tested the HE5-LE and the LCD-3 last week. The HE5-LE had less volume at high gain and high volume, but I think that as long as you listen to safe volume levels, you may enjoy the Pan Am with it. That said, there are probably better amps for low-sensitivity electroplanar headphones. The LCD-3, however, is bulldozed by this amp. No problems with power here.


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## Rossliew

I don't listen loudly but prefered genres are metal and metal. So, wondering if the amps will have sufficient grip for the dynamics and bass reproduction of metal. Thanks.


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## shigzeo

I was in a store, so I couldn't test how many decibels the HE5LE went to and if I had to hazard a guess, it would be somewhere about 80-85 that I had them up to to hear over the store. I could be wrong. But I was in a store so I heard things in not the best way to determine what's good and what is bad.


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## PLUSSOUND

Looking forward to more reviews. This is one amp I am eyeing on.


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## Rossliew

Looking forward to more detailed reviews. Something worth considering..And thanks for the feedback, Shigzeo


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## shigzeo

I may NOT be able to finish the review this week. Reviews take soooooo much time to complete and this week I have some court action to import stuff from Canada. I may have to push back a week. If you read TMA, you know that my reviews are constantly sort of delayed. I make mistakes, but try to be as thorough as possible without getting too windy. So, I apologise that I may have to delay for one more week, but I can only do so much.
   
  Anyway, this is an impressive amp for sure.


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## palchiu

Just arrived.


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## PLUSSOUND

Quote: 





palchiu said:


> Just arrived.


 
  Nice! Would like to hear first impression.


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## palchiu

Quote: 





plussound said:


> Nice! Would like to hear first impression.


 
   

   
  No power question with LCD2


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## shigzeo

What current pictures don't show is just how small this amp is. Its entire component set probably takes up less space than a DACmini does, and maybe less than Graham Slee's Ultra Linear. Very very small. And discreet.


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## palchiu

Pan-Am in box, the JJ's tube is 12AU7


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## s3er0i9ng

Have my eye on this one. Will be using with LCD3's mainly, hoping to get more impresions of this setup before pulling the trigger. Looks good so far though


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## shigzeo

In the portable section, someone also mentioned that it worked just fine for the LCD-3. The LCD2 I have no idea about, the the LCD-3 are no problem.


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## richbass

Looks tempting !
  Which Wolfson dac chip is inside it?


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## MrMobius

Am i the only guy in the world getting it in silver?  All the pics i see posted are black.


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## shigzeo

We need to see it in Silver. Please!


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## PanamaHat

Does it come with the USB interconnect already included or do you have to buy it separately?


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## tcp56

Not included


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## palchiu

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> We need to see it in Silver. Please!


 
   
  I want the silver one to match my macbook, but I've saw silver's high resolution pics I still go black.
   
http://www.aloaudio.com/images/thumbnails/3/900/900/DoubleStackSilver1.jpg


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## evolutionx

just receive my pan am. these things are small......


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## JadeIceGreen

Has anyone tested to see if it works with the iPad via the camera connection kit?


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## Grev

This thread interests me.


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## palchiu

Someone send this to me


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## shigzeo

Interesting. Those are the same package as the Pan Am's valves?


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## KB

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> Interesting. Those are the same package as the Pan Am's valves?


 
   
  Hey Shigzeo,
   
  The stock tubes as you know are a Chinese 6AK5, we have some NOS Siemens and the military Russian NOS 6J1P-EV tubes as well. However I also scored 100 or so of the exact NOS Telefunken tubes in that photo above also 6AK5s, they are out favorite in our shop test. I would be selling them now but we have not cryoed them yet. I have a cryo run commencing on Friday. The Telefunken tubes have a bit more gain and more resolution over all. I still like the Siemens as they are a little more laid back with really nice chewy low bass. 
   
  Looking forward to the touchappz read.
   
  Ken


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## shigzeo

Thank you for the explanation, Ken. I am almost done piecing the review together, so it is possible to expect it by Friday or the weekend. 
   
  Everyone: having a battery module for a desktop-class amp is really the killer item here. You can use it out and about, yes, but the coolest factor is, that like Red Wine Audio's battery-powered DAC's and amps, you get cleaner power (and still discreet) into your box. 
   
  ALO, very very cool idea.


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## shigzeo

Anyone else see a little Futurama in the ALO Audio Pan Am?


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## palchiu

lol
   
  I didn't use the tube cover... want to get some HALO for Pan-Am


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## shinex64

They say this amp is build for the LCD-2, I', thinking on getting it or the RXMK3. don't know how it will perform with my HE-400


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## shigzeo

The Pan Am is more powerful than the RX3 is for full size headphones. For earphones, it is the opposite. However, both are gifted with very strong outputs. You might check them out at a store. The Pan Am turns my DT880 into speakers. My Centrance DACmini cannot do that, and neither can any amp I've tried them with apart from a machine the size of a desk that I used at a Toronto meet.
   
  By the way, my full review is up.


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## palchiu

Hi shigzeo,
   
  Pan-Am USB cable looks great!
   
  Did you compare to other USB cables?


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## shigzeo

The new cables really are very nice: firm, long enough for almost any system, and sure to last a very long time. I have a slew of 'audiophile' USB cables, and to tell you the truth, I can't tell the difference in sound. The ALO ones are made very well and from what I can see, are shielded, so technically, they are quite good. Also, if you are keen on accessorising (I am), this kit is pretty nice.


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## palchiu

Hi shigzeo, thanks! Maybe try it later.
   
  Anyone has used Pan-Am w/HD800?


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## rudi0504

4 weeks ago ii have heard alo Pan Am in our local store Jakarta indonesia.

The First Time i have heard Pan Am was not so impressed 

I heard With Direct Iphone 4 S With Pan Am and LCD 2 rev 3 , at 15 o clock was clipping 

Yesterday i have heard again Alo Pan Am With Tube upgrade Siemens , was so impressed Me 

The Sound Quality so different compare what i heard 4 weeks a go


Source : Iphone 4 S

Dac : Alo Class 

Amplifier : Pan Am + Pass Port external Baterei Power 

 Alo continemtal dan Alo Rx 3 B

Cable : mini to mini solid core Silver 18 AWG DIY 
 Lod to USB Silver 8 braid DIY 

Headphone : LCD 2 rev 3 With Angle Jack 

High : more detail and Clear compare 4 weeks ago 
 High has Better detail than My Alo Continental 

Mid : Now very sweet and Lush Tube Sound like , not like what i heard 4 weeks a go
 Mid Quality is Better than My Alo Continental and My Rx 3 B

Bass : Deep and very clean detail bass compare 4 weeks a go 
 My Alo Rx 3 B has The best bass impact and Fastest Speed compare these Two Alo 
 Continental and Pan Am

Overall : Pan Am is very good portable Tube amp , SQ is Better With Alo suggestion Tube upgrade From Siemens .


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## KB

Quote: 





rudi0504 said:


> 4 weeks ago ii have heard alo Pan Am in our local store in kocak Store In Jakarta indonesia.
> The First Time i have heard Pan Am was not so impressed
> I heard With Direct Iphone 4 S With Pan Am and LCD 2 rev 3 , at 15 o clock was clipping
> Yesterday i have heard again Alo Pan Am With Tube upgrade Siemens , was so impressed Me
> ...


 
   
   
  The burn in is pretty significant, especially with the Siemens tubes which I found to be rather bright out of the box but really softened and toned up nicely after a few days of continuous playing. But yes generally we have found the burn in of the Pan Am is fairly significant so let em run gentlemen!
   
  Just got back from RMAF had a great show it was great to talk so much audio for 2 full days, awesome. I want to acknowledge the comprehensive coverage that Tyll Hertsens over at *www.innerfidelity.com  *did* *at RMAF in the CanJam room. There is a lot of press at RMAF but our CanJam hall is in my opinion not covered enough, Tyll was everywhere as well as talking to many people. Nice work.
   
  Ken


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## rudi0504

kb said:


> The burn in is pretty significant, especially with the Siemens tubes which I found to be rather bright out of the box but really softened and toned up nicely after a few days of continuous playing. But yes generally we have found the burn in of the Pan Am is fairly significant so let em run gentlemen!
> 
> Just got back from RMAF had a great show it was great to talk so much audio for 2 full days, awesome. I want to acknowledge the comprehensive coverage that Tyll Hertsens over at *www.innerfidelity.com  *did* *at RMAF in the CanJam room. There is a lot of press at RMAF but our CanJam hall is in my opinion not covered enough, Tyll was everywhere as well as talking to many people. Nice work.
> 
> Ken




Thank you Kent for your explanation 

After the audition my friend sold his continental v2 and directly bought your Pan Am

Because your simens tubes are not available yet , he bought follow your suggestion telefunken 

He is very happy now with his telefunken tubes upgrade on his Pan Am to drive his LCD 2 rev 1


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## Ronald Lee

do this amp have a option to switch the voltage to 230V? Can it be safety use in Singapore? Interested to get one set.


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## evolutionx

Quote: 





ronald lee said:


> do this amp have a option to switch the voltage to 230V? Can it be safety use in Singapore? Interested to get one set.


 
   
  Portable charger is AC 100V - 240V so no issue.


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## Ronald Lee

what abt the gateway? I want to get the combo for gateway and the amp.


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## seraphkz

I mainly listen to Jazz. Will the Pan Am work wonders with Grado PS500?


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## KB

*Cnet Review of the Pan Am is up!!*


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## GarySaville

Has anyone compared the Pan Am to the Continental? I generally only use IEMs. I have Westone um3x/4 and I've recently ordered an Heir 8.A. I'm looking for an amp that is warm, but can handle output well at low volumes (<31ohm iems). I have a headphonia Headstage, which I love because of the bass boost. Any thoughts on the bass representation of the Pan Am or Continental?


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## GarySaville

Quote: 





kb said:


> Hey Shigzeo,
> 
> The stock tubes as you know are a Chinese 6AK5, we have some NOS Siemens and the military Russian NOS 6J1P-EV tubes as well. However I also scored 100 or so of the exact NOS Telefunken tubes in that photo above also 6AK5s, they are out favorite in our shop test. I would be selling them now but we have not cryoed them yet. I have a cryo run commencing on Friday. The Telefunken tubes have a bit more gain and more resolution over all. I still like the Siemens as they are a little more laid back with really nice chewy low bass.
> 
> ...


 
  Chewy? 
  Which tubes give the 'fullest' bass?


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## seeteeyou

.


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## Errymoose

Quote: 





seraphkz said:


> I mainly listen to Jazz. Will the Pan Am work wonders with Grado PS500?


 
  I read one review that says it can be a bit noisy with low impedance headphones.... 
   
  Anyone else try this?  Is it just some tubes, or does it not work the best with low impedance?  Maybe if you use a 1/8" adaptor and plug a grado into the IEM socket...


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## FatmanSize48

I just ordered my Pan Am on Sunday, really looking forward to it. I've had my K702s on the market, all boxed up and ready to go, but I guess I'll have to swap the pads (new ones for the customer) and take a listen. I will compare the Pan Am with the Arcam rPAC and tell y'all what I think.


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## swmtnbiker

I bit on the sale price as well. Threw in a pair of Siemens tubes to mix things up. I'm very interested in hearing what this little guy has to offer. Should be on my doorstep by Thursday.


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## GarySaville

Quote: 





errymoose said:


> I read one review that says it can be a bit noisy with low impedance headphones....
> 
> Anyone else try this?  Is it just some tubes, or does it not work the best with low impedance?  Maybe if you use a 1/8" adaptor and plug a grado into the IEM socket...


 
  I received the Pan Am today. I'm currently using it with the Westone 4 until my Heir 8.A arrive, and there is no noise at all unless I crank the volume up past the halfway point, but listening level with the 31ohm W4 would not go much past 1/4. What is slightly more problematic is interference from computers. I am using an audioquest dragonfly DAC, and I have to stretch the 1/8 inch interconnect (2 feet)  as far as it will go to avoid cycle hum from the computer. I'll need to get a longer 1/8 cable for sure. The Pam Am also picks up ambient noise if it is touched, so it seems best to place it on a separate table or on a small peice of foam/dampening in order to avoid environmental sounds such as the vibrations from smacking my keyboard. I've only noticed these sounds when I'm not playing music. Once music is playing, the ambient noises are too quiet for me to hear, but I'd still like to avoid the vibrations.
   
  I'm using the telefunken tubes, and right out of the box they sound fantastic. Bass has great impact and feels deep. I've never heard highs so well balanced on my W4s. They are a middy IEM, but feel much more extended with the Pan Am compared to the Headstage V3. I understand that tubes need time to burn in, but I'm in no way unsatisfied with the sound out of the box.


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## FatmanSize48

swmtnbiker said:


> I bit on the sale price as well. Threw in a pair of Siemens tubes to mix things up. I'm very interested in hearing what this little guy has to offer. Should be on my doorstep by Thursday.



Siemens for me too 
Mine are coming Wednesday though.


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## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Siemens for me too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Please post your impressions if you're able.


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## max pl

I got my Pan Am + Gateway yesterday and spent the day playing with it. Cant give too many impressions as my 650s still havent arrived, so all I used it for was to drive my RE0s.

I dont have any experience with amps so I wont go into detail, but it definitely made the music louder, with possibly a touch of extra bass.
Again, I didnt use it with great headphones so I'll give my impressions once I get my 650s. I'll try to describe the sound with the Pan Am and without it. 

This little thing is definitely the perfect fit for my setup next to my bed. If I primarily listed at a desk I possibly would have went with something larger, but for this particular setup, this thing is basically perfect.

It definitely does move around a bit since its so light, with the Cryo power cord included with the Gateway that is. Using the cheapo cable its possible that it'd move less. Not a huge deal as I have it set on a soft surface. And unless I deliberately move the cable, the amp doesnt move.

So yeh, I'll try to post impressions in a few days. I get my 650s tomorrow.


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## FatmanSize48

I received my Pan Am today in the mail. Nothing better coming home from a long day at school and practice than a big package for you. In this case, it wasn't an especially large package at all. In fact, it was quite underwhelming. After clawing my way through FedEx's packaging material (the best, in my opinion), I saw two black boxes. One was labeled "The Pan Am," the other one "The Accessory." Included in my Accessory box were a pair of Siemens tubes. I had never used tubes before, so putting them into the Pan Am was a new experience for me. They look so awesome 
   
  Next, build quality. I'm a stereo guy and have most of my audio budget directed towards it. So I'm used to extremely solid builds that look great (in my collection, at least). The Pan Am was a bit lighter than expected, yet still a very solid piece of equipment. I don't have the issue with the Pan Am sliding around my desk because of cables. This may be because I do not believe in using $400 heated and silver plated USB cables, but that's just me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  My previous amps are the Fiio E11, Arcam rPAC, and the amp built in to my Pioneer Elite receiver. My "audiophile" full sized headphone inventory is limited to the AKG K702, though I have spent much time with the HD600s. I _had _a pair of RE-262s, but I think I may have lost those (left em on the school bus...crap). I've had the opportunity to briefly test out other amps too, and this is possibly the best I've heard my AKGs. Their often criticized anemic bass of the K702s was suddenly transformed into the deep, fast, and almost punchy bass I'm enjoying right now. The treble has lost a great deal of its graininess and harshness, and seems to have been tamed. Really, much like the HD560 (with which I am replacing the K702s), the K702s' main criticisms are easily solved by great amping. I personally was a non-believer, but now...I've seen the light. 
   
  I'd really like to share more, but I have to cram for a chemistry and history test tomorrow. Thanks for reading-I'll definitely have more detailed impressions up soonish.


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## GarySaville

Quote: 





max pl said:


> I got my Pan Am + Gateway yesterday and spent the day playing with it. Cant give too many impressions as my 650s still havent arrived, so all I used it for was to drive my RE0s.
> I dont have any experience with amps so I wont go into detail, but it definitely made the music louder, with possibly a touch of extra bass.
> Again, I didnt use it with great headphones so I'll give my impressions once I get my 650s. I'll try to describe the sound with the Pan Am and without it.
> This little thing is definitely the perfect fit for my setup next to my bed. If I primarily listed at a desk I possibly would have went with something larger, but for this particular setup, this thing is basically perfect.
> ...


 
  You notice extra bass? Which tubes are you using? I find a substantial drop in bass overall with both the Telefunken & Stock tubes. The Pan Am is well balanced, but on A/B tests between the Pan Am and the Dragonfly DAC, bass has far less punch with the Pan Am.


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## FatmanSize48

garysaville said:


> You notice extra bass? Which tubes are you using? I find a substantial drop in bass overall with both the Telefunken & Stock tubes. The Pan Am is well balanced, but on A/B tests between the Pan Am and the Dragonfly DAC, bass has far less punch with the Pan Am.



Really? I just had the opportunity to try out my friend's Dragonfly and I thought there to be better bass impact with the Pan Am-but this may be because of my tubes (I used the Siemens ones you can order as an option from ALO. I think for the size and price, the Dragonfly IS better. But as for overall audio quality, the Pan Am was clearly better. And it's not THAT big.


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## jacobgolden

Are you guys talking about the dragonfly dac/amp by itself or just the dac section of the dragonfly feeding another amp?


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## GarySaville

I have been feeding my dragonfly DAC into the Pan Am. That way, I can do quick A/B tests by simply unplugging the 1/8 inch and plugging in my IEMs into the dragonfly. I did also try AB testing between the Pan Am DAC and the Dragonfly. In both instances, the Pan Am has little or no impact in the bass, while the dragonfly punches substantially. The difference is dramatic. The Pan Am sounds nice across the spectrum, but very weak in the bass. I allowed the Telefunken tubes  to burn in for around 20 hours before doing the A/B tests. The stock tubes have had little or no burn in, but with both tubes, the bass is quite disappointing.


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## seeteeyou

.


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## FatmanSize48

What's the impedance of your IEMs?


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## GarySaville

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> What's the impedance of your IEMs?


 
  I've been using Westone 4 and UM3X IEMs with the Pan Am which are 31/56 ohms respectively.


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## FatmanSize48

Shizgeo in his (amazing!) interview stated that the Pan Am worked best with 50-600 ohms. Most other reviews I've read seem to back up this point, and said that the Pan Am underperformed with lower impedance headphones. Do you have any other headphones to use with them？


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## GarySaville

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Shizgeo in his (amazing!) interview stated that the Pan Am worked best with 50-600 ohms. Most other reviews I've read seem to back up this point, and said that the Pan Am underperformed with lower impedance headphones. Do you have any other headphones to use with them？


 
  not currently. But I do plan on getting the LCD-2 sometime next year. I currently live in an apartment with uni students, so open ear cans are useless. I've ordered an Heir Audio 8.A, but that is not above 50ohms. 
  If the bass response of the Pan Am is not better with the 8.A, I the amp will have to work hard as a (pretty cool looking) desk ornament until I get my own place in Vancouver and the Audeze cans next year. 
   
  I noticed the specs of the Pan Am were a little odd when I checked them out the other day: 40hz-30khz. Does anyone know why ALO would choose to drop the last 20hz or the audio spectrum? I thought it had something to do with the tubes, but I checked other tube amps such as the woo-audio tube amps, and many of them go far below 20hz.


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## FatmanSize48

That's really wierd. I wonder where that last 20hz went. So yeah, with IEMs, the Pan Am is not at its best. Maybe Santa will drop you a pair of HD650s or LCD-2s


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## shigzeo

If ind that no mains-powered or mains-based amps are that good for IEMs. The DACmini 1Ω mod is good, but still, portable earphones do best with portable amps. That said, the Pan Am is spice... wonderful spice for every flavour of portable headphone, high Ω earphone, and proper headphone. Again, it is powerful, can be rolled, and just works. Christmas presents: get the Pan Am for your new phones. 
   
  My favourite match still is the LCD3 and the DT880, though I find the ESW11LTD to be pretty good too! BTW, Palchiu sent me a set of Telefunken (or OEM clones), and I'm enjoying them heaps. This little amp really has a lot going for it. A lot.


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## PooJou

After much umming and ahhing I had to search high and low for a setup that matched the musical leanings of my home hifi (that I will sadly have to leave behind as I move halfway across the world )
   
  Impressions with the DT770 Pro are:
   
  - Tighter bass amped than un-amped
  - Even larger soundstage
  - Super compact, plays nicely with Windows 8


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## bsn

Quote: 





garysaville said:


> I noticed the specs of the Pan Am were a little odd when I checked them out the other day: 40hz-30khz. Does anyone know why ALO would choose to drop the last 20hz or the audio spectrum? I thought it had something to do with the tubes, but I checked other tube amps such as the woo-audio tube amps, and many of them go far below 20hz.


 
  Many other amp makers list their specs as +/- 3dB or -3dB.  The ALO Pan Am is listed as +/-1 dB.  So, unless you can see the frequency responses plotted out on a graph, you cannot totally understand the differences.   Keep in mind that a 3 dB drop in audio is half the sound energy being output. So, ALO is listing the spec where the amp is essentially ruler flat or down by not more than one third. That does not mean that the Pan Am cannot output 20Hz, it just means its rolled off a bit, which is not unheard of for a tube amp.  The Pan Am may very well measure similar to an amp rated on a 3dB slope 20-30KHz at +/-3 dB the other amp could be down by half power at 20Hz.


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## max pl

anyones pan am have the left socket too close to the inner socket cutout in the housing causing the tube to lean up against the cutout in the housing?  if you put the tube cover on it forces the tube to sit in crooked, and it doesnt just sit in, but snaps in, unlike the right tube.
   
  kinda poor machining for a $600 device.
   
  was planning to complain but dont know if i should.


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## GarySaville

Quote: 





max pl said:


> anyones pan am have the left socket too close to the inner socket cutout in the housing causing the tube to lean up against the cutout in the housing?  if you put the tube cover on it forces the tube to sit in crooked, and it doesnt just sit in, but snaps in, unlike the right tube.
> 
> kinda poor machining for a $600 device.
> 
> was planning to complain but dont know if i should.


 
  Yes, mine is the same. The circuit board is skew and as a result, the tube on the left hand side of the unit touches the chassis.


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## shigzeo

Mine has no problems with either valve slot. The only problem I have is using the batteries up sooo damn fast as I love the Pan Am for music, movies, and for when brainstorming, which is like all day.


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## FatmanSize48

Quote: 





garysaville said:


> Yes, mine is the same. The circuit board is skew and as a result, the tube on the left hand side of the unit touches the chassis.


 
  Hmm...me too. I considered sending it back, but....it's just too darn enjoyable. It doesn't detract from listening at all, so I guess it doesn't really matter much to me.


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## GarySaville

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Hmm...me too. I considered sending it back, but....it's just too darn enjoyable. It doesn't detract from listening at all, so I guess it doesn't really matter much to me.


 
  I won't be parting with mine either, though it is getting sidelined for while since I only have IEMs and I do not think the Pan Am is suitable for IEMs. I plan on buying the Audeze LCD2 or 3. Several reviews I've read have praised the match, so I'm going to hold-on to the Pan Am.


----------



## pabloaugustus

Quote: 





seeteeyou said:


> Did anyone try installing ASIO driver like this one? Available for both Windows and Mac users
> 
> http://www.usb-audio.com/download.html


 

 EVERYONE on this site should be using ASIO drivers.  Its mandatory for audio workstations so I think that you audiophiles would also benefit from an asio driver....I assumed you were all running them.  
   
  There a great free program ASIO for all....supports all sounds cards I think.  By default windows uses MME/DirectX to process your sound so instead of letting that driver mangle your sound you all should be using a transparent low latency ASIO driver.  Maybe you all know this but this is the first I've seen it mentioned.
   
  I want to buy this amp as well...it looks great and I love tubes.  Anything that gives a singer better sound in their cans will make them sing better so I'm wondering if I could use this as an amp only w/out DAC features.  I'll check out the specs dumb questions but this is the first AMP I've seen thats gotten my blood up.
   
  -augustusP


----------



## palchiu

Headfonia posted a Pan-Am tube rolling http://www.headfonia.com/high-octane-fuel-for-the-pan-am-a-tube-rollers-notes/
  
  I'll get some Mullard CV4010


----------



## GarySaville

Quote: 





palchiu said:


> Headfonia posted a Pan-Am tube rolling http://www.headfonia.com/high-octane-fuel-for-the-pan-am-a-tube-rollers-notes/
> 
> I'll get some Mullard CV4010


 
  Where did you pick up the Mullard 4010? 
  I almost ordered the Russian tubes from ALO but they wanted $30 to ship to Canada. I'll try some other retailers first.


----------



## palchiu

PM sent


----------



## noxway

Quote: 





palchiu said:


> Headfonia posted a Pan-Am tube rolling http://www.headfonia.com/high-octane-fuel-for-the-pan-am-a-tube-rollers-notes/
> 
> I'll get some Mullard CV4010


 
  Thank you so much for sharing!!! Really appreciate it


----------



## FatmanSize48

So I received the Passport a few days ago, but only opened it today. After charging it for a few hours (I think 3 hours), I plugged it in to the Pan Am. When I flipped the Pan Am on, I heard a quick crackling sound and I started to smell what seemed to be like burning plastic. I immediately turned the Pan Am off and disconnected all of the cables. I know that I am (barely) within my 30 days warranty period, so I immediately sent in an email to ALO and an RMA request. I'm sure that this is an isolated incident that easily can be resolved, as I have seen NO issues at all from anyone else.


----------



## palchiu

Quote: 





noxway said:


> Thank you so much for sharing!!! Really appreciate it


 
  You're welcome. I hope everyone can have best sound with Pan-Am. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> So I received the Passport a few days ago, but only opened it today. After charging it for a few hours (I think 3 hours), I plugged it in to the Pan Am. When I flipped the Pan Am on, I heard a quick crackling sound and I started to smell what seemed to be like burning plastic. I immediately turned the Pan Am off and disconnected all of the cables. I know that I am (barely) within my 30 days warranty period, so I immediately sent in an email to ALO and an RMA request. I'm sure that this is an isolated incident that easily can be resolved, as I have seen NO issues at all from anyone else.


 
   
  Hope ALO send back to you soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
   
  What's these?
   

   
  Must be Santa Claus! I found them in my Santa Sock.


----------



## noxway

tell us more about the french CIFTE tubes...


----------



## palchiu

Quote: 





noxway said:


> tell us more about the french CIFTE tubes...


 
   
  I just know they're made in France 1963 and malitary spec. (printed five stars on tube)
   
  I'll comments them later.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Those tubes look awesome! I hope I get my Pan Am back in working order soon so I can get back to tube rolling fun


----------



## ariesq

Is Alo Audio closed over the holidays? I sent them a few emails a few days ago in regards to the Pan Am and never got a reply. 

Btw Palchiu, can you PM me where you got the Mullard tubes? 

Much appreciated


----------



## FatmanSize48

ALO was closed over the holidays, but they're open now. As long as you email them on a business day, they are VERY good with responding to emails-though it  says emails may take two business days to be responded two, I've always had same day responses. So be patient, as I'm sure you will get a reply soon. 
   
  Palchiu, could you also PM me where to get the Mullard tubes? I'd really appreciate it


----------



## trickztastic

hello amigos,
   
  i'm just curious, exactly how long do you have to charge the passport battery pack?  there isn't any light indicator that'll state if the battery is done charging.
   
  also, on the headfonia review, he said that the pan am came with some usb cable, ipod cable etc, but i didn't get any of those when i bought the amp.
   
  did any of youse get any cables besides the wall plug?
   
  alrighty, take it easy y'all.


----------



## palchiu

Quote: 





trickztastic said:


> hello amigos,
> 
> i'm just curious, exactly how long do you have to charge the passport battery pack?  there isn't any light indicator that'll state if the battery is done charging.
> 
> ...


 

 Battery charger will stop charging when it's full, and will become green lights on.
   
  USB & ipod cables are options.


----------



## bjast

Does anyone know if the Pan-Am will work with the iPad Camera Connection kit to get 24 bit? Thanks


----------



## ariesq

I believe Mikes review on Headfonia confirmed that the iPad camera kit does not work with the Pan Am


----------



## FatmanSize48

Just ordered a pair of LCD2s for the Pan Am...


----------



## FatmanSize48

Oh, and has anyone used this with a set of HD800s?

I'm starting to feel sorry for my wallet...


----------



## noxway

Pan Am + Passport unit ordered!! My LCD-2 can't wait!


----------



## dmcs414

noxway said:


> Pan Am + Passport unit ordered!! My LCD-2 can't wait!




Same here! Mine comes in Monday morning, and the LCD2 rev2s are ready and waiting. Also ordered the Russian tubes and a pair of Mallard M8100s that the headfonia guys liked so much. Trying to decide on some additional tubes to roll also. Considering Raytheon, Motorola and RCA 6AK5s. Suggestions?


----------



## GarySaville

Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


> Same here! Mine comes in Monday morning, and the LCD2 rev2s are ready and waiting. Also ordered the Russian tubes and a pair of Mallard M8100s that the headfonia guys liked so much. Trying to decide on some additional tubes to roll also. Considering Raytheon, Motorola and RCA 6AK5s. Suggestions?


 
  I've also ordered a pair of Mullard CV4010. However, they were from a random-ish ebay seller, so I'm hoping they are the real deal, and well stored/quality.


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





noxway said:


> Pan Am + Passport unit ordered!! My LCD-2 can't wait!


 
  Very very sweet setup. Can't wait to hear what you think. I've just gotten back from holiday (and recovered from bad fever) so I'm finally back to this thread!


----------



## ValentinHogea

Quote: 





garysaville said:


> I've also ordered a pair of Mullard CV4010. However, they were from a random-ish ebay seller, so I'm hoping they are the real deal, and well stored/quality.


 
   
  The sweet-sweet Mullards. You guys are in for a treat!


----------



## dmcs414

Well, so my Pan Am came in yesterday and I got it all nice and settled in on my desk with the Voshkod tubes warming up.. and I'm listening to it brand new, immediately out of the box - never had that experience before, I realized after. Every desktop headphone amp I've owned up till now I purchased used, from here. Add to that the fact that I'm also listening to my LCD-2s for the first time! (although I have heard others before and mine are burned in already) 

So, long story short, I am now a believer - - nay! a devout believer - that an amp has simply GOT to burn in before it will sound right. Because mine did not at all sound right. It's amazing to experience that phenomenon first hand finally. Took me a while of listening before I was finally ready to conclude that must be the problem. It seemed so strange to me that parts of the frequency would sound normal, good even, and others just seemed odd in the extreme. Sterile, brittle, lacking body, and some parts of a song drastically over emphasized above others. 

So anyway, my dear comrades, my rig is now happily burning away while I toil at the office and count the minutes until it will be ready to sing.

 The vital question for me then, is how long does that burn-in process take, assuming I care not a fig for the last 10%?
Thanks for indulging my rather sleep-deprived and whimsical mood Head-fi. 
Best, 
Dave


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


> Well, so my Pan Am came in yesterday and I got it all nice and settled in on my desk with the Voshkod tubes warming up.. and I'm listening to it brand new, immediately out of the box - never had that experience before, I realized after. Every desktop headphone amp I've owned up till now I purchased used, from here. Add to that the fact that I'm also listening to my LCD-2s for the first time! (although I have heard others before and mine are burned in already)
> So, long story short, I am now a believer - - nay! a devout believer - that an amp has simply GOT to burn in before it will sound right. Because mine did not at all sound right. It's amazing to experience that phenomenon first hand finally. Took me a while of listening before I was finally ready to conclude that must be the problem. It seemed so strange to me that parts of the frequency would sound normal, good even, and others just seemed odd in the extreme. Sterile, brittle, lacking body, and some parts of a song drastically over emphasized above others.
> So anyway, my dear comrades, my rig is now happily burning away while I toil at the office and count the minutes until it will be ready to sing.
> The vital question for me then, is how long does that burn-in process take, assuming I care not a fig for the last 10%?
> ...


 
  New tubes tend to settle in after about 30-40 hours. Just don't leave them on forever after a 40-hour break in, I would turn the amp off when not in use. Tubes last about 5,500 hours, so if left on 7x24 they will fail in less than 1-year.
   
  It could be the Voshkod tubes sound signature that you are not used to. The Voshkods have a bit of a forward dynamic sound to my ears.  Its not a bad sound, but its a bit different sort of vibrant to my ears. I personally like the 1950 era Raytheon 6AK5W a lot in my amp. The GE 5-star white label are nice too.  The RCA Radiotrons have a warm, tubey sound if you are into that and the Telefunkens from ALO sound very neutral to me.  I should also qualify that I am using AKG K702 cans, so your results may be different from mine.  The point being if you don't like the sound you might want to try a different set of tubes.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Just wondering-how do you know when a tube is towards "the end."


----------



## cutie

I listened to my PanAms with the Gateway thru' my JH16s with its USB input.
  Absolutely amazing. As silent as the graveyard when no music is playing.
  With music thru the USB, it is really very transparent.
  The rest of the inputs are average. Even paired with AMR CD77 thru Audioquest Diamonds interconnect, the sound from the direct USB input is alot better. I don't think this is a fault of the CD or interconnect, but more of the way the RCA inputs are implemented.
  But this only goes to show just how good is the USB input.
  ALO doesn't say much about the Wolfson 24/94 DAC used.
  No Asynchronous USB. No 24/192. No ASIO drivers.
  But all these doesn't matter. It just sounds better than the Dragonfly even with the iFi Audio iUSB connected.
  Worth every single penny.


----------



## dmcs414

Quote: 





bsn said:


> New tubes tend to settle in after about 30-40 hours. Just don't leave them on forever after a 40-hour break in, I would turn the amp off when not in use. Tubes last about 5,500 hours, so if left on 7x24 they will fail in less than 1-year.


 
   
  I was under the impression the burn-in the amp needed was about more than just the tubes...was I wrong in that?  
   
  Put the headphones back on my head for a few moments this morning before work.  Still doesn't sound as amazing as I'd expected.  Bass is light, highs are harsh, grating.  I'm starting to get nervous.  Little did I suspect when I went from a EF5/HE-500 rig to a ALO PanAm/LCD-2.2 rig I would be disappointed, but I am so far.  I really hope it's the burn-in thing.  The previous owner of these headphones said they had about 150 hours on them - perhaps they too are still burning in?  I just don't know...reassure me folks?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So for clarity my source is a PC running J River, (no DSPs enabled or any EQ) using the Pan Am's DAC, and the amp is connected to the Passport.  I'm on the high gain setting, and have been playing around with adjusting amp volume vs J River volume, but that's the only tweaking I'm doing.  Have been burning in for perhaps 10 hours, give or take.


----------



## GarySaville

I installed a pair of the Mullard 4010 into the PanAm a few days ago and find the sound better than with the either the stock or Telefunken tubes. The bass is more substantial than the Telefunken, and there is more clarity than the stock tubes offered.
  While I find it quite hard to compare, I lean towards using the dragonfly into the 1/8 inch input over the PanAm's internal DAC. 
  While the Bass with the Mullard tubes improves over the Telefunken and stock tubes, it is still heavily rolled off in comparison to listening directly out of the dragonfly.


----------



## liamstrain

Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


> I was under the impression the burn-in the amp needed was about more than just the tubes...was I wrong in that?


 
   
  To date, this has not been demonstrated objectively. Tubes yes. Wires and internal solid state components, no.


----------



## noxway

Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


> I was under the impression the burn-in the amp needed was about more than just the tubes...was I wrong in that?
> 
> Put the headphones back on my head for a few moments this morning before work.  Still doesn't sound as amazing as I'd expected.  Bass is light, highs are harsh, grating.  I'm starting to get nervous.  Little did I suspect when I went from a EF5/HE-500 rig to a ALO PanAm/LCD-2.2 rig I would be disappointed, but I am so far.  I really hope it's the burn-in thing.  The previous owner of these headphones said they had about 150 hours on them - perhaps they too are still burning in?  I just don't know...reassure me folks?
> 
> ...


 
  Burning process is making the SQ even better but from the start you should already have a good quality... maybe you got some issues regarding your usb cable or usb port??


----------



## dmcs414

Quote: 





noxway said:


> Burning process is making the SQ even better but from the start you should already have a good quality... maybe you got some issues regarding your usb cable or usb port??


 
  I just purchased a brand new USB cable for this purpose.  Not an audiophile cable, just a decent Belkin USB 2.0 from Fry's.  
   
  What I plan to do when I get home is compare the sound using the Pan Am's DAC against my FiiO E17 as the DAC.  Perhaps I'll notice some differences and can at least rule out something in my rig from potentially causing a problem.  
   
  Should I expect that the FiiO will sound considerably worse than using the onboard DAC in the Pan Am?  I'll need to use the E17's headphone out to feed the Pan Am, but I've done so before with my last rig (Hifiman EF5/HE-500) without ill effects.


----------



## Foxjam

I plan on getting the HE-400 soon and have been debating between the Pan Am and Asgard/Bifrost combo.  Could anyone offer their take on what would be the better combination?  Not really concerned about size or portability.  Main concerns are soundstage and bass.  Also any impressions on the Gateway power supply?  How noticable is the difference?  Any advice is appreciated!


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Just wondering-how do you know when a tube is towards "the end."


 
  It's the coughing, the sunken eyes, the sudden uptick of lethargy.


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





foxjam said:


> I plan on getting the HE-400 soon and have been debating between the Pan Am and Asgard/Bifrost combo.  Could anyone offer their take on what would be the better combination?  Not really concerned about size or portability.  Main concerns are soundstage and bass.  Also any impressions on the Gateway power supply?  How noticable is the difference?  Any advice is appreciated!


 
  The GateWay is a nice accessory to be sure, but the absolute killer accessory is the Passport. I simply can't recommend it enough. When you can take a desktop amp around with you (though it is smaller than most), plug into your netbook or your favourite portable system and enjoy massive headphones or smaller earphones from valves - on the go... you have something special. If you had to decide between one or the other, get the passport. Battery power is always cleaner than mains power. And you get 8-10 hours from the pack. It's essential.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> It's the coughing, the sunken eyes, the sudden uptick of lethargy.


 
  Oh dear.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Just wondering-how do you know when a tube is towards "the end."


 
  Lower sound output, muddy sound, loss of dynamics and punch, strange noises on quite passages are some tell tale signs.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


> I was under the impression the burn-in the amp needed was about more than just the tubes...was I wrong in that?
> 
> Put the headphones back on my head for a few moments this morning before work.  Still doesn't sound as amazing as I'd expected.  Bass is light, highs are harsh, grating.  I'm starting to get nervous.  Little did I suspect when I went from a EF5/HE-500 rig to a ALO PanAm/LCD-2.2 rig I would be disappointed, but I am so far.  I really hope it's the burn-in thing.  The previous owner of these headphones said they had about 150 hours on them - perhaps they too are still burning in?  I just don't know...reassure me folks?
> 
> ...


 
   
  My Pan Am sounded good out of the box, but I'm feeding mine from a stand alone DAC, so changing the DAC up might be worth a try.
   
  It sounds like you want less treble and more bass. If it were me, I would try a different set of tubes before you give up on the amp, but that is a choice that only you can make. Unless there is something horribly wrong with your amp, it should sound very good and a tube change will change can change up the amps sound palate quite noticeably. 
   
  For example, my 1980's Voshkods are sitting in their boxes. I'm not bashing the Voshkods a lot of people love them and if someone does, then great, but they are not my cup of tea. The highs are too forward for me, but my 1980's set has taught bass, but it was not the deepest. You can find some good tube deals on e-bay or give Brent Jessie a call and have him hook you up with a tested NOS set. 
   
  You could also call ALO on the phone either Caleb or Josh might have some suggestions to tweak the setup with JRIVER. Also, ALO has the Siemens tubes which i have read sound bright out of the box, but most say get really good after 40-hours. They might swap them for you if you don't like the Voshkods.
   
  Good Luck


----------



## noxway

Speaking of the Pan Am, CNet from Steve Guttenberg:
 " _When I had started listening with my computer I was using the [size=inherit]AudioQuest Dragonfly​[/size] USB digital-to-analog converter feeding the Pan Am's analog input. The sound was wonderful, but when I switched over to the amp's internal DAC, the sound was significantly more transparent and pure. That surprised me; the Dragonfly is exceptional, so it's nice to know there's no need to spring for a separate DAC with the Pan Am. Spurred on, I plugged in my hard-to-drive Hifiman HE-500 [size=inherit]planar magnetic​[/size] headphones, and the Pan Am obliged again, and delivered even better sound."_
   
  one comment: "_I LOVE the pairing w/ my Audeze LCD3's! I especially enjoy the Pan Am when using the Passport battery pack (such a low noisefloor its phenomenal). I've heard multi-thousand dollar head-amp/DACs that don't draw me into the music like the Pan Am does_."
   
  So I imagine the DAC isn't this bad...


----------



## liamstrain

Quote: 





bsn said:


> Lower sound output, muddy sound, loss of dynamics and punch, strange noises on quite passages are some tell tale signs.


 
   
  And depending on the tube and the amp architecture, increased channel imbalances.


----------



## dmcs414

I appreciate all the feedback everyone!  Some bits of good news to report --  trying the rig out with the FiiO E17 as the DAC only degraded the sound quality - rather horribly I might add.  That experience also lent additional weight to my other theory, that to a certain extent I'm succumbing (and against my better nature) to expectation bias in the worst way.  But we'll see; still some more experimentation to do. 
   
  On the topic of tubes, I did roll in the stock tubes last night to see if I noticed any meaningful difference between them and the Voshkods; none I could observe.  I also spent probably way too much time fiddling with a fresh foobar installation to compare with my standard J River, but no meaningful conclusions drawn as of yet.  Also scouring eBay for Mullards & other rolling candidates.  If anyone has suggestions on that front, I'm all ears!
   
  All that said, as I sit here listening to Grimes and typing this, I'm noticing _only_ things that impress me about the sound, as opposed to the opposite like I had experienced those first 24 hours after getting everything.  Maybe it was just these tubes needing to burn in after all.  Without any EQ or DSP enabled of any kind in foobar, I'm hearing what to my ears is an exceedingly neutral and delightfully fleshed out presentation across the range.  The bass in particular is not remotely anemic sounding like it was before.  It's not at the level of the other LCD-2 I heard either, but it's most definitely there and I'm liking it.  
   
  One last note-  this weekend I'll be getting together with a local Head-fi'er friend for some listening and rig tweaking and whatnot.  (He owns my old Hifiman HE-500s and EF5 as it happens)  So, I'll have a rig to A/B against that I know intimately, should I still require more evidence.  And a proper external DAC to try out to boot, (he bought a Mogi recently) -- but, really at this point I don't think it's necessary.  I'll report back again after the weekend.  Thanks again!


----------



## GarySaville

Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


> I appreciate all the feedback everyone!  Some bits of good news to report --  trying the rig out with the FiiO E17 as the DAC only degraded the sound quality - rather horribly I might add.  That experience also lent additional weight to my other theory, that to a certain extent I'm succumbing (and against my better nature) to expectation bias in the worst way.  But we'll see; still some more experimentation to do.
> 
> On the topic of tubes, I did roll in the stock tubes last night to see if I noticed any meaningful difference between them and the Voshkods; none I could observe.  I also spent probably way too much time fiddling with a fresh foobar installation to compare with my standard J River, but no meaningful conclusions drawn as of yet.  Also scouring eBay for Mullards & other rolling candidates.  If anyone has suggestions on that front, I'm all ears!
> 
> ...


 
  I bought a pair of Mullard CV4010 from vintage_audio_lab on eBay. They are based out of Taiwan. The shipping to Canada was quick and the tubes arrived in Canada in about a week. The bass reponse of the Mullard tubes is better than other tubes I've tried. Worth checking out if you feel your PanAm lacks bass.


----------



## GrumbleFish

Has anyone tried the Pan Am with custom IEMs? I have a pair of JH5s and HE400s. I'm slightly afraid they are too low impedance for the Pan Am...


----------



## shigzeo

I've tried them with FitEar 333, Sleek Audio CT7 and the universal version of the FitEar MH334, the ToGo! 334. The CT7 is probably the best of that bunch. Still, a higher Ω earphone is recommended.


----------



## ValentinHogea

Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> Has anyone tried the Pan Am with custom IEMs? I have a pair of JH5s and HE400s. I'm slightly afraid they are too low impedance for the Pan Am...


 

 I also have tried the Pan Am with UM Merlins, great sound. But they sound much faster cleaner from my VorzAMP.
   
  Is the built-in-DAC very important? Because the HE400 is quite easy to drive, and maybe there are better solutions for you to be both portable (if needed) + better driving of your JH5's.


----------



## FatmanSize48

valentinhogea said:


> I also have tried the Pan Am with UM Merlins, great sound. But they sound much faster cleaner from my VorzAMP.
> 
> Is the built-in-DAC very important? Because the HE400 is quite easy to drive, and maybe there are better solutions for you to be both portable (if needed) + better driving of your JH5's.




I'm thinking he'll probably upgrade to a nicer set of orthos if he's getting the Pan Am. As for the DAC, I think it's great! I'm waiting for my Pan Am to get back from ALO before I go and say it sounds "better" than my ODAC


----------



## GrumbleFish

fatmansize48 said:


> I'm thinking he'll probably upgrade to a nicer set of orthos if he's getting the Pan Am. As for the DAC, I think it's great! I'm waiting for my Pan Am to get back from ALO before I go and say it sounds "better" than my ODAC




This is actually exactly what I am hoping to do. Looking to get a pair of HE500s or maybe even some LCD-2s by the beginning of summer or so.


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> This is actually exactly what I am hoping to do. Looking to get a pair of HE500s or maybe even some LCD-2s by the beginning of summer or so.


 
  Do it, you won't be disappointed.


----------



## FatmanSize48

shigzeo, I just have a quick question for you, having read many of your (great!!) reviews on touchmyapps.com: What is the rating scale you use? Is "kiss it" better than "grab it"?


----------



## shigzeo

That will be fixed soon. I'm designing a new graphic set that will be easier to decipher. Kiss it is sort of the holy grail, though recently, a number of amps have made it that far. Overall, GRAB it describes a device that does things nearly flawlessly, but has one or two errors that make conferring a KISS difficult. 
   
  I hope the new graphic set will work better for everyone not intimately (you know who you are you dirty doilies) involved.


----------



## palchiu

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> Do it, you won't be disappointed.


 

 shigzeo, needs some Mullards?


----------



## shigzeo

Oh, Gee, Palchiu, you have hooked me up well enough already. I'm pretty happy with the telefunken clones and the Russians, Siemens, and Chinese ones. You're a hooker upper, eh?


----------



## ariesq

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> Oh, Gee, Palchiu, you have hooked me up well enough already. I'm pretty happy with the telefunken clones and the Russians, Siemens, and Chinese ones. You're a hooker upper, eh?


 
  I"m currently burning in a set of Mullard CV4010. Haven't had a real chance to listen to them, but first impressions are that I do enjoy them more than the Russian tubes.


----------



## Foxjam

Just ordered the Pan Am with the Gateway.  I called ALO about deciding between the Gateway and the Passport because it would be plugged in on my desk 95% of the time (if not more).  Whoever I spoke with said I probably wouldn't want to leave the battery plugged in all of the time and that for my use the Gateway would probably be best.  I didn't really want to mess around with any possibly battery degradation over the long haul.  Either way really looking forward to it.


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





foxjam said:


> Just ordered the Pan Am with the Gateway.  I called ALO about deciding between the Gateway and the Passport because it would be plugged in on my desk 95% of the time (if not more).  Whoever I spoke with said I probably wouldn't want to leave the battery plugged in all of the time and that for my use the Gateway would probably be best.  I didn't really want to mess around with any possibly battery degradation over the long haul.  Either way really looking forward to it.


 
  Can't wait to hear your impressions. Lotsa love from this OB.


----------



## Currawong

A review unit is in the house. Stock tubes sound a bit boomy and the Siemens are a bit bright. I guess they'll both need some hours before they start behaving.  Extremely listenable sound out of the box though.


----------



## Rossliew

I find the Mullards to be the best sounding, overall. Even the Voshkods couldn't produce quality bass like the Mullards. Haven't tried any Siemens though,.


----------



## noxway

After a long wait, I finally put my hands on the precious... 
Actually I agree to say it is so small!! You can't figure out how a so small unit can be able to deliver so much power!! 
The build is ok, looks strong: no apparent problem: tubes are little bit left sided into their places but aren't in contact with the unit. The stack (with PassPort) is stable IMO.
I used to listen to my LCD2 via an O2 which was good honestly (regarding price) but via the Pan Am: damn perfect!! Every sound is at its right place, basses are present but not heavy, better spacialization; plus the volume is only at quarter...: means a lot about the power of this amp.
For the moment only russian tubes burnt in: really happy about vocals and bass rendering; I still got french R.T.C tubes to try and of course I'll purchase some famous Mullard to make my opinion. The Integrated DAC is making the job pretty well; would be great to compare with a Cypherlabs Class... 
I connect my mac mini via a regular LaCie USB cable.
Yes Pan Am is expansive, but worth it if you own LCD2 ( or LCD3 I guess): they make themselves favors 
My pleasure of listening to music or enjoying already known albums has never been so big!!
The only issue I found are the interferences you can hear in the headphones when your hands are near the tubes (or manipulating the volume button) when no music is playing otherwise I'm not able to hear some.
My only wish now is to compare with a WA7 Woo Audio unit which seems to be very promising even if I cannot imagine how it can be better ^^

PS: we could maybe open a new thread about the Pan Am tubes relating the Valentin's headfonia article and each headfier minds, notifying the name/country/year/type plus his musical feelings about it?
PS2: editing this rediscovering for the 45th time the Postal Service chef d'oeuvre: thank you Alo Audio, thank you Audeze!


----------



## palchiu

I order two pairs different French tubes.
   
  Neotron, 60s

   
  RTC Military, 70s or early 80s. Dirty cheap, $5 each.

   
  Pics from seller, update when I received.
  
  Mullards has best soundstage, but bass is a little bit much for me.
   
  I found Cifte is better smooth and high if compare with Mullard, but smaller soundstage and less bass. But nice with female vocal, sweet!


----------



## Currawong

I wouldn't say that the PanAm really has enough power for my LCD-3s, as it distorts at high volume on high gain, but that is way louder than I'd ever listen with it.
   
  I've ordered some tubes off of eBay (good timing, as one seller had tubes for another amp I wanted which will save me considerably on shipping and having to buy locally at crazily inflated prices). However, the amp has just that bit of tube warmth to it that makes me feel it is only tube selection away from being a good all-rounder with more sensitive and less demanding cans. It also seems to be pretty good with IEMs with only a minimal amount of hiss on low gain with the volume knob turned right up.


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I wouldn't say that the PanAm really has enough power for my LCD-3s, as it distorts at high volume on high gain, but that is way louder than I'd ever listen with it.
> 
> I've ordered some tubes off of eBay (good timing, as one seller had tubes for another amp I wanted which will save me considerably on shipping and having to buy locally at crazily inflated prices). However, the amp has just that bit of tube warmth to it that makes me feel it is only tube selection away from being a good all-rounder with more sensitive and less demanding cans. It also seems to be pretty good with IEMs with only a minimal amount of hiss on low gain with the volume knob turned right up.


 
  You wouldn't say that it has enough power despite the fact that at HIGH gain at volumes you'd never listen to, it distorts. What is this world coming to? In a desktop-cum-portable amp, and even beyond, to fully desktop amps, I've yet to discover a single amp in the size and or price bracket that puts out as much power as the Pan Am does.


----------



## Rossliew

Quote: 





noxway said:


> The Integrated DAC is making the job pretty well; would be great to compare with a Cypherlabs Class...


 
   
  I find the CLAS superior - better bass with fuller bodied sound. I could be wrong but the internal DAC is just something of a convenience if you want to listen straight off the laptop without the need for a separate DAC and extra cables. But then, you could get the upgraded CLAS -dB...now that would be awesome with the Pan Am.


----------



## ValentinHogea

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> You wouldn't say that it has enough power despite the fact that at HIGH gain at volumes you'd never listen to, it distorts. What is this world coming to? In a desktop-cum-portable amp, and even beyond, to fully desktop amps, I've yet to discover a single amp in the size and or price bracket that puts out as much power as the Pan Am does.


 

 Triad Audio L3 and Rx MkIII handle hard-to-drive headphones better from the "non-distortion"-POV. However, Pan Am gives a much better sound stage and clarity.
  So I'm a +1 on that point. Never understood why some amps have plenty of head-room on the volume control, however they start distorting pretty heavily. Better take it easy on the gain in the amp and make it useable.
   
  Who knows, in the the future, maybe we'll have both somehow in a small portable package.
   
  /V


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, power isn't just about loudness. Enough power means that it isn't going to distort, at all, when the music gets complex or has sudden loudness peaks. With the LCD-3s (which I wouldn't expect any low-power or battery-powered amp to drive _very_ well) it sounds a little compressed even on some jazz when that starts to get busy. Note that this is in comparison to a rack of gear costing far more than the PanAm which can output full power at headphone-destroying levels without distortion.** It's not a criticism, just observations of its performance. Considering it is designed to run off battery power, I think it is a kick-ass transportable unit and I'm not expecting it to in any way have the kind of grunt a full-size amp or system. But I believe knowing it's limits is important I reckon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It has the kind of performance, possibly better in some respects, than the HP-P1/L3 combo I used to use as a transportable rig (though I didn't try the LCD-3s much with the L3 and I never owned the wall-powered PSU for the L3 which is supposed to improve it considerably). I don't have the L3 any more to compare, unfortunately, but the PanAm is considerably cheaper than that rig, even if everything is included. It's very probably quite a bit behind a CLAS/RX3 rig, as that sounded much closer to my full-size rig, but that too, especially after cables are considered is way more expensive as well.
   
  Something that comes to mind is, when I started here, something like the PanAm, with tubes and a built-in DAC would have sounded awful, because the options for building USB-connected DACs were relatively few and those were pretty awful. Now I reckon that being able to have a unit like the PanAm with a good built-in DAC, at this size with a reasonable amount of power is great.  I suspect it might be a good match with the new Audio Technicas.
   
**I might add here some of my background comes from hi-fi systems were one had to be careful not to select under-powered amps for speakers, as overwhelming an amp to the point of distortion is bad for the speakers.


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> I find the CLAS superior - better bass with fuller bodied sound. I could be wrong but the internal DAC is just something of a convenience if you want to listen straight off the laptop without the need for a separate DAC and extra cables. But then, you could get the upgraded CLAS -dB...now that would be awesome with the Pan Am.


 
  Yes, the CLAS is superior in every single way. The Pan Am DAC makes a good show, but hands-down, the CLAS is the star. Exactly as it is recorded is how the CLAS will spit it. Full stop.
   
  @Curra - indeed, distortion is one of the kings among the final output. I am in full agreement. I discovered no compression issues at all at moderate to very loud volumes with any headphone, even the LCD-3/2 headphones. At insane volumes, of course, it is there in full effect. But, even the signal strained less at high volumes at low-medium gain. High had its issues, but it always does. I'm not as keen on the DAC portion of the Pan Am, but the amp stage for every full-size headphone I've thrown at it for any decent amount of time, is excellent. 
   
  Will you be trekking your Pan Am to the coming meet?


----------



## Foxjam

Can anyone tell me approximately how long the stock tubes take to settle in?  I think I've got about 15 hours on it and I'm not sure I'm happy with it yet.  I'm using it with my HE-400.  I have a hard time articulating my impressions but versus my iBasso D7 I don't feel that the bass is as good and digs as deep.  The texture isn't quite there.  I'm hopeful that I can just attribute this to it being so new.


----------



## ValentinHogea

Quote: 





foxjam said:


> Can anyone tell me approximately how long the stock tubes take to settle in?  I think I've got about 15 hours on it and I'm not sure I'm happy with it yet.  I'm using it with my HE-400.  I have a hard time articulating my impressions but versus my iBasso D7 I don't feel that the bass is as good and digs as deep.  The texture isn't quite there.  I'm hopeful that I can just attribute this to it being so new.


 

 Somewhere between 25-100 hs. More on the lower part of the spectrum usually.
   
  Don't expect too much magic from the stock tubes though. Pick up a pair of Voshkods or Mullards.
   
  /V


----------



## Foxjam

I've been planning to try some new tubes once I get the stocks ones burned in.  This is probably a question for another thread but I couldn't find anything anywhere but can I leave it running all day or night (like 9 or 10 hours) to get the tubes to where they should be?  I'd like to leave it running over night or while I'm at work but am afraid if something were to happen I wouldn't be there to turn it off.


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





foxjam said:


> I've been planning to try some new tubes once I get the stocks ones burned in.  This is probably a question for another thread but I couldn't find anything anywhere but can I leave it running all day or night (like 9 or 10 hours) to get the tubes to where they should be?  I'd like to leave it running over night or while I'm at work but am afraid if something were to happen I wouldn't be there to turn it off.


 
  Bring it with you. You _did_ get the Passport, right?! Haha.


----------



## Foxjam

I decided against the Passport and got the Gateway at the advice of the folks at ALO.  Not really allowed to be on headphones at work anyway (espiecially the open HE-400) and wanted to just let it run while I sleep or am away at work.  Since it's my most expensive piece of gear in my headphone set up I didn't want to take any chances.


----------



## shigzeo

The Gateway is pretty sweet, but... the battery module is my favourite as it allows amazing clarity from battery power (as long as the battery is up to 80% charged). The last 20% is a bit rougher of course.


----------



## Foxjam

I would have gotten the Passport except that it will be plugged in on my desk almost 100% of the time and didn't want to worry about remembering to unplug it and use it until the battery runs down to preserve battery longevity.  It was tempting though!


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> Will you be trekking your Pan Am to the coming meet?


 
   
  In May? Definitely. Are there any meets before that?


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





currawong said:


>


 
  There is a small one in February in Tokyo. I think the May one may be better for us to bump Pan Ams. February I'll be going to see if anything new is on the horizon. Doubt it will be shown yet.


----------



## Foxjam

Got the Russian tubes today.  They sound great out of the box!  Can't wait to hear them once they get settled in.


----------



## shigzeo

Glad to see more fans of the Russians. They are my favourites.


----------



## Currawong

Russian tubes arrived. They win. Nicer than the Mullards. Totally spot-on.
   
  The only downside is that it wasn't happy with my Sony XBA-3s and their wacky impedance curve.


----------



## Foxjam

It is pretty remarkable how much better the Russian tubes sound right out of the box.  Well worth the price.  I was surprised how much of an improvement they made over the stock tubes.  _Everything _sounded better.  Definitely makes the Pan Am that much more fun to listen to.


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Russian tubes arrived. They win. Nicer than the Mullards. Totally spot-on.
> 
> The only downside is that it wasn't happy with my Sony XBA-3s and their wacky impedance curve.


 
  Yes, very lowΩ BA earphones do cause some small headaches. At least there is plenty of balance to play with via the Pan Am, and thanks to software volume limits, there is pretty much infinite control to be had on the volume pot. Enjoy the Russians.


----------



## Flea Bag

I've tried searching all over the net but can't find pictures of what the unit looks like opened-up. Anyone so kind as to provide some Pan Am & Passport po*n?


----------



## varyV

So, could anyone comment on what the HE-500 sounds like on the Pan Am?


----------



## shigzeo

I need to update my impressions here: the Last 20% of the battery is fine at normal to semi-loud listening volumes. When you stretch it up to very loud reach, the battery can force audible artefacts, but I've not had that problem at normal listening volumes with any of MY headphones.


----------



## Foxjam

Quote: 





flea bag said:


> I've tried searching all over the net but can't find pictures of what the unit looks like opened-up. Anyone so kind as to provide some Pan Am & Passport po*n?


 
  I second that. I'd love to see what it looks like on the inside.


----------



## velvetx

Just picked up this AMP and I am currently using the stock tubes.  I also picked up the Russian tubes and I have the Mullard tubes coming as well.  Based on what others have said I think I will test each tube for 30-50 hours and pick the best one.  The Amp itself though is awesome.


----------



## NZheadcase

I'm using the Siemens tubes. Very impressed. I also have the Russians but I have not tried them.


----------



## NZheadcase

I have just tested the pan am with the T1. I actually had low expectations, but wow! Wait, that's actually incorrect. WOW!


----------



## zilch0md

A couple of questions for anyone who knows...
   
  On the Passport, what is the difference between the jack labeled "Output" and the jack labeled "12V"?
   
  What kind of battery pack does the Passport use (voltage, amps, mAh specs would be nice, but I can't find specs for it at ALO)?
   
  Thanks in advance!
   
  Mike


----------



## WSH33

Does anyone else hear a buzzing noise when the Pan Am is plugged in to the wall wart?


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





wsh33 said:


> Does anyone else hear a buzzing noise when the Pan Am is plugged in to the wall wart?


 
   
  You might try a different AC outlet in your home, an AC outlet at a neighbor's house, or an AC outlet at work - to see if the noise problem goes away.
   
   
  The owner of an Emotiva amp is having a similar problem, for which I've recommended an inexpensive power conditioner:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/629352/hifiman-he-500-on-a-speaker-amp-emotiva-mini-x-a-100-project/720#post_9176272
   
  Mike


----------



## GarySaville

Quote: 





wsh33 said:


> Does anyone else hear a buzzing noise when the Pan Am is plugged in to the wall wart?


 
  Do you have the metal covers on the tubes? I keep my Pan Am close to my computer, and I find that I have to have the covers on to prevent humming. I do not get any hum from power, but I am plugged from the Passport into a NTS1600 Powerstation.


----------



## Drsparis

Has anyone been able to try this Amp/Dac combo with some Fa-011's ? just got them and I will be looking to buy (eventually) a better amp/Dac to get me going until im a millionaire


----------



## vincentc

Quote: 





palchiu said:


> What's these?
> 
> 
> 
> Must be Santa Claus! I found them in my Santa Sock.


 
   
  Thank you for showing us these great tubes! I am looking on eBay right now but I am not quite sure if I have got the right one. Palchiu could you please PM me where your got these two sets of tubes?


----------



## seeteeyou

.


----------



## Solitary1

Well, welcome me to the club. Got my PanAm today with Russians and Siemens tubes, starting out with Russian tubes , I'll put the Siemens in tomorrow. I guess I'm going to get LCD-2, but nobody told me how good this sounds with HD650's! I have even put K702 in, because the 650 sounds so good! Using Mac Mini w/ Audirvana + mosts test with 24/96 Apple Lossless files, I must say I'm surprised with the DAC, made the right choice over the EF-5. Definite a border-line hi-end headphone amp.


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





solitary1 said:


> Well, welcome me to the club. Got my PanAm today with Russians and Siemens tubes, starting out with Russian tubes , I'll put the Siemens in tomorrow. I guess I'm going to get LCD-2, but nobody told me how good this sounds with HD650's! I have even put K702 in, because the 650 sounds so good! Using Mac Mini w/ Audirvana + mosts test with 24/96 Apple Lossless files, I must say I'm surprised with the DAC, made the right choice over the EF-5. Definite a border-line hi-end headphone amp.


 
   
  Would love more impressions with the HD650 as you! I haven't heard of anyone really commenting on the combo yet...


----------



## R Scott Ireland

imackler said:


> Would love more impressions with the HD650 as you! I haven't heard of anyone really commenting on the combo yet...




My HD-650's sound excellent on the Pan Am with both stock Russian tubes and Mullards. The Beyer DT880's (600 ohm) are perhaps my favorite cans with the Pan Am and Mullards. The soundstage and response at all frequencies is just superb.


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





imackler said:


> Would love more impressions with the HD650 as you! I haven't heard of anyone really commenting on the combo yet...


 
   
   
  With the Rrussians tubes very smooth and velvety, vocals are the best, listening to 24 bit/96kHz HD Tracks of  Herbie Hancock's "River: The Joni Letters", the first rack "Court and Spark", Norah Jones closed-mike is best I have from her. On the 24bit/96kHz SACD rip of MoFi's Patricia Barber's "Modern Cool" on the track "You and the Night and the Music" the bass is just amazing.  Elton John's "Madman Across the Water" (also 24/96 HD Tracks), the title track show the abilities of the dynamic range of this amp. While the orchestra explodes from the background surrounds Elton and the piano you still the acoustic guitar in the left channel quietened underscores the song. With the Siemens tubes, more detail, not as much bass, gorgeous midrange. On 24bit/192k HD Tracks of Roberta Flack & Donny Hathaway debut, the track "Where Is the Love?" the interplay of the two singers voices are defined by the Siemens.   Note: this only 96 hours in burn-in, right now I prefer the Voshkod's, after burn-in this might change. My Mullards are on the way. This DAC/amp have taken the Sennheiser's to the place only achieved before by the Musical Fidelity X-Can v8/V-DAC in my setup, possibly passing that setup.


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





solitary1 said:


> With the Rrussians tubes very smooth and velvety, vocals are the best, listening to 24 bit/96kHz HD Tracks of  Herbie Hancock's "River: The Joni Letters", the first rack "Court and Spark", Norah Jones closed-mike is best I have from her. On the 24bit/96kHz SACD rip of MoFi's Patricia Barber's "Modern Cool" on the track "You and the Night and the Music" the bass is just amazing.  Elton John's "Madman Across the Water" (also 24/96 HD Tracks), the title track show the abilities of the dynamic range of this amp. While the orchestra explodes from the background surrounds Elton and the piano you still the acoustic guitar in the left channel quietened underscores the song. With the Siemens tubes, more detail, not as much bass, gorgeous midrange. On 24bit/192k HD Tracks of Roberta Flack & Donny Hathaway debut, the track "Where Is the Love?" the interplay of the two singers voices are defined by the Siemens.   Note: this only 96 hours in burn-in, right now I prefer the Voshkod's, after burn-in this might change. My Mullards are on the way. This DAC/amp have taken the Sennheiser's to the place only achieved before by the Musical Fidelity X-Can v8/V-DAC in my setup, possibly passing that setup.


 
   
  Those impressions are thrilling...I can hear your enthusiasm. You haven't by any chance heard the Bottlehead Crack? I'm not a DIYer so the ALO Pan Am is sooo tempting...


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





vincentc said:


> Thank you for showing us these great tubes! I am looking on eBay right now but I am not quite sure if I have got the right one. Palchiu could you please PM me where your got these two sets of tubes?


 
   
  Wow, just received these Cifte tubes last night and they sound really nice. Warm, lush - similar to the Mullards, and that with no break-in time.  Listening with Beyer DT880's. Here's the link for anyone interested in the Cifte's
   
http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1068
   
  I had purchased 4 of these and I liked them so much I just ordered 8 more!  Looks like they have plenty of them (listed 100). They are pretty low-priced too.
   
  I can't believe how good the Pan Am sounds with virtually all of the tubes I try in it, and how inexpensive they are - Russians, Siemens, Mullards and now Cifte's.  Compared to the 6DJ8 and Octal tubes for my bigger amps, all of these are ultra-inexpensive.


----------



## ninewalker

I've had my Pan Am for about 2 months now. I simply just love it. This is my first experience with a tubes coming from a Headroom Micro stack. It's pretty eye opening (ear opening? lol). 

I have a DT880 and an HD600 and was looking at the Bottlehead Crack. But with nary a DIY bone in my body I didn't want to get something I could majorly screw up building. Having very little desk space was also something I had to consider. Ultimately it was Shigzeo's great review that made me decide on the Pan Am. I wanted a Bender to call my own.

What really jumped out to me on first listen was the bass (I put in the Russians first and didn't even bother with the stock tubes). On both my headphones with my previous setup, bass was present, it was well done and I couldn't complain having not heard it presented any other way (I wish I could go to meets). But with the Pan Am, the detail, the quality was something I had yet to experience and I found myself saying, 'wow, I have been missing out.' I was enjoying the bass so much that it was quite a while before I could appreciate all the other things this amp does so well e.g. it really did help taming the highs on the DT880 and just did wonders with the HD600's already lovely mids.

I have since gotten the Mullards to go along with the Russians. I can't say which ones I like better yet. But whenever either is being used I find it hard to switch to the other, so go figure. The Mullards are smoooooooth as silk whereas the Russians are a tad aggressive.

Sorry for the long winded post.

tl;dr I love my Pan Am


----------



## Fonksta

Just received my Pan Am and got it running! This is my first setup above the computer headphone jack...and glad to say I'm impressed! I have the Russian tubes but will roll them in after getting familiar with the stock sound.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

fonksta said:


> Just received my Pan Am and got it running! This is my first setup above the computer headphone jack...and glad to say I'm impressed! I have the Russian tubes but will roll them in after getting familiar with the stock sound.




Congratulations on your new Pam Am! I'm sure you will love it. I have "bigger/badder" amps, but the Pan Am is still just amazing. And 6AK5 tubes are very reasonable - most of the ones I've tried sound great.


----------



## Fonksta

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Congratulations on your new Pam Am! I'm sure you will love it. I have "bigger/badder" amps, but the Pan Am is still just amazing. And 6AK5 tubes are very reasonable - most of the ones I've tried sound great.


 

 Thanks.

 I feel the Pan Am with 250 ohm Beyers are an excellent match using the stock tubes with about 10 hours of burn in. This is my first headfi setup and feel a little lucky getting it right the first time! Couldn't have been possible without extensive reading throughout these forums.
   
  Thank you headfi....and ALO!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

fonksta said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 
> I feel the Pan Am with 250 ohm Beyers are an excellent match using the stock tubes with about 10 hours of burn in. This is my first headfi setup and feel a little lucky getting it right the first time! Couldn't have been possible without extensive reading throughout these forums.
> ...




Good choice - the DT880's are my current favorite cans with the Pam Am.


----------



## NZheadcase

Quote: 





fonksta said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I feel the Pan Am with 250 ohm Beyers are an excellent match using the stock tubes with about 10 hours of burn in. This is my first headfi setup and feel a little lucky getting it right the first time! Couldn't have been possible without extensive reading throughout these forums.
> 
> Thank you headfi....and ALO!


 
   
  Congrats! The Pan Am is really a great little kit. The T1s and LCD sound great out of the Pan Am as well. 
   
  Try the Siemens tubes and the Russian tubes. Those two may give give you a slightly different, but overall more pleasing sound. They have for me. The stocks had their run, but they're bested by these two. Of all the three pairs Alo offers, the Siemens are my fav .
   
  regards, 
   
  Glenn


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Try some Mullards (CV 4010) also. Very warm and engaging tubes.


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





imackler said:


> Those impressions are thrilling...I can hear your enthusiasm. You haven't by any chance heard the Bottlehead Crack? I'm not a DIYer so the ALO Pan Am is sooo tempting...


 
  No, have not heard the Crack, it was on my list of tube amps  (which included the Woo WA6 and EF-5 also). Have heard nothing but good things about the Crack.


----------



## Dashie

Hi guys, i'm currently using an Aune T1 tube dac with ss amp, paired to my samson sr850 monitors and an Asus n56VZ laptop (with what i believe contains a Creative Audigy HD soundcard) with MAxxAudio Equalizer pre-installed. I use foobar/spotify as my main audio player for all kinds of songs (mp3/ flac 16/44)  Problem is, i['m finding there to be a troubling lack of tubey sound coming out from my current dac even though i've done some tube-rolling with it. It appears as if the dac in the Aune T1 just isn't miles better than the soundcard in the Asus laptop  As you can probably tell, i'm still a newbie who hasn't yet ventured into high-end audio, though i am totally tempted to do so some time soon 

 Can I get any feedback as to whether there are any Aune T1 users, and even if not, whether upgrading my dac to the pan am will engender significant improvements in overall sound (esp the tubey stuff)? I might eventually change/upgrade my headphones to something like a hifiman he400 so any inputs as to pairing is also appreciated. 

 My above concern is in regards to improving my desktop rig, but if there are any recommendations for a small home audio system set-up (cd-player and all that will be great!)


----------



## ninewalker

I think you should first think about getting the best pair of headphones you can get. Then think about amplification. Unless of course you are really in love with your current pair. I think asking about an amp and then saying you'll get headphones for it later is counter intuitive. Just my two cents


----------



## Dashie

Hi ! 
         I do love my headphones If it's somehow possible to maximize the sound of my current set-up, i'd prefer not to change my headphones. One reason i'm so into amp/dacs is because i've heard amazing things coming out from pretty standard headphones (akg 240 for e.g.) at audio stores and it is my believe that the amazing sound is probably due to whatever hi-fi set up they used in-store. My sr850 has similar, if not (subjectively) better qualities than that of the akgs, which is why i tend towards building upon the other components of my audio-setup...

 Of course, another thing is whether computer audio + good amp/dac can compare to a hifi-cd player kinda set up, given the technical complications and factors involved in achieving the best configuration for computer audio.  I personally haven't got a chance to compare and try out the difference since i'm only just beginning with little opportunities to visit a store selling all kinds of dac/amps/hi-fi equipment and catering to auditions.

 But thanks for your input anyway It's just that i'd prefer saving up money for a better system since I already have a decent- to me - headphone at hand


----------



## Greg121986

Has anyone tried the Pan Am with (unmodified) Fostex T50RP? My work setup is Audio-GD NFB12 and Fostex T50RP without mod. I'm looking to replace the NFB-12 and I think the Pan Am might be a good solution. I would like to hear thoughts from someone if they've tried this combination. 
   
  *EDIT* Before recommendations to replace or mod my T50RP come swarming in, I want to say that the T50RP is perfect for my current needs. It sounds great, it's cheap, and I do not mind leaving it at my office. It is also semi-closed so I do not get any complaints about noise leakage and it reasonably blocks out everyone around me so I can ignore them when they try to talk to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I haven't found a semi or closed back headphone that seems like a better fit to me for office use. I leave my NFB-12 at my office as well, but I will likely take the Pan Am back and forth between home and office because of its size and its cost. It's a bit too expensive to be worry free about theft.


----------



## wgkwgk

+1


----------



## NZheadcase

Hey all you Pan Am fans - just sharin some Pan Am love from work.


----------



## FatmanSize48

:O
I wish I had the guts to bring my Pan Am where I spend the day.


----------



## NZheadcase

You should. If transporting them and potentially breaking them is a fear of yours, just buy one of those dslr carry kits. You'll find one that fits nicely, i'm sure. Or if you really want protection, get a pelican 1400 or pelican 1500. You fit the pan am, a full sized headphone, cables and then some.


----------



## borgoise

Hey everyone! I wonder if anyone have tried these with Grados? Any impressions? I have the 325is, by the way.


----------



## Currawong

I have Symphones Magnums, which are modified Grados with a similar type of driver. I am pretty happy with the combination.


----------



## mentt

[size=11.5pt]To me default Chines tubes sounds better than upgraded Siemens tubes. What are your thoughts on Siemens tubes vs default ones vs Russian ones?[/size]


----------



## R Scott Ireland

mentt said:


> [COLOR=333333][SIZE=11.5pt]To me default Chines tubes sounds better than upgraded Siemens tubes. What are your thoughts on Siemens tubes vs default ones vs Russian ones?[/SIZE][/COLOR]




My favorites are the Voshkods, Mullards and Cifte's, and not in any particular order. Each sounds best matched to particular headphones. I love the Cite tubes with DT880's; the Mullards with various Senns and the Russian tubes with LCD-3's and D2000's


----------



## R Scott Ireland

r scott ireland said:


> My favorites are the Voshkods, Mullards and Cifte's, and not in any particular order. Each sounds best matched to particular headphones. I love the Cite tubes with DT880's; the Mullards with various Senns and the Russian tubes with LCD-3's and D2000's




PS - the Siemens sound good with most phones, but I don't get any special synergy like the other tubes mentioned.


----------



## Twinster

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> My favorites are the Voshkods, Mullards and Cifte's, and not in any particular order. Each sounds best matched to particular headphones. I love the Cite tubes with DT880's; the Mullards with various Senns and the Russian tubes with LCD-3's and D2000's


 
   
  When you say "D2000" are we talking about the Denon?  Because I'm expecting my Pan Am tomorrow and I have the D7000 to try with it. My main headphone for the Pan Am will be the AKG K702 for now. I also have an old SR325 Grado.
   
  Cheer!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

twinster said:


> When you say "D2000" are we talking about the Denon?  Because I'm expecting my Pan Am tomorrow and I have the D7000 to try with it. My main headphone for the Pan Am will be the AKG K702 for now. I also have an old SR325 Grado.
> 
> Cheer!




Yes, Denon D2000's with MarkL pads and a cable upgrade. I think you will be pleased with your D7000's on the Pan Am.


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> PS - the Siemens sound good with most phones, but I don't get any special synergy like the other tubes mentioned.


 
   
  I think the Voshkods better than Mullards on HD650, and the Mullards better than Siemens on the AKG K701. I  have never even removed the Chinese tubes from the box that came with the Pan Am. I got to get me some them French tubes.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





solitary1 said:


> I think the Voshkods better than Mullards on HD650, and the Mullards better than Siemens on the AKG K701. I  have never even removed the Chinese tubes from the box that came with the Pan Am. I got to get me some them French tubes.


 
   
  Here's the link for the Cifte tubes:
   
http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1068
   
  The good news is it won't murder your wallet


----------



## Twinster

solitary1 said:


> I think the Voshkods better than Mullards on HD650, and the Mullards better than Siemens on the AKG K701. I  have never even removed the Chinese tubes from the box that came with the Pan Am. I got to get me some them French tubes.





So Mullard is the preferred tube for K70x?


----------



## mentt

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> My favorites are the Voshkods, Mullards and Cifte's, and not in any particular order. Each sounds best matched to particular headphones. I love the Cite tubes with DT880's; the Mullards with various Senns and the Russian tubes with LCD-3's and D2000's


 
Are Voshkods tubes the ones that ALO sells as option "Russian Military Tubes"along side of Pan Am AMP it self?


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





twinster said:


> So Mullard is the preferred tube for K70x?


 
   
  Yes, made a typo, mine are 702. But, the 702 sound very good with the Mullards. Also, I will say the HD650's are the better match for the Pan Am as a whole.


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Here's the link for the Cifte tubes:
> 
> http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1068
> 
> The good news is it won't murder your wallet


 
  Thanks for the link.


----------



## FatmanSize48

I just ordered a pair of T70s ($320 from Amazon Warehouse in LN condition) and hope to play em with the Pan Am soon. As for the K702 tubes, I preferred the Russian (Voshkod?) tubes for their heightened bass response.


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> I just ordered a pair of T70s ($320 from Amazon Warehouse in LN condition) and hope to play em with the Pan Am soon. As for the K702 tubes, I preferred the Russian (Voshkod?) tubes for their heightened bass response.


 
   
  Please share your impressions of T70 and Pan Am. And I can see your view about the 702 and the Voshkod.


----------



## Twinster

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Here's the link for the Cifte tubes:
> 
> http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1068
> 
> The good news is it won't murder your wallet


 
   
   
  Thank here too!  Just ordered the Cifte & Mullard from them. Excellent price.
   
  Now I should be set for awhile: China stock, Russian, Siemens and now Cifte & Mullard.
   
  I can't wait


----------



## Twinster

Quote: 





solitary1 said:


> Yes, made a typo, mine are 702. But, the 702 sound very good with the Mullards. Also, I will say the HD650's are the better match for the Pan Am as a whole.


 
   
  Going from the K702 to the HD650 don't you miss some of the top frequencies?  I owned the HD650 twice (old & new drivers) and liked them and I'm debating on trying them again or the HD600.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





mentt said:


> Are Voshkods tubes the ones that ALO sells as option "Russian Military Tubes"along side of Pan Am AMP it self?


 
   
  Yes, those are the ones.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





solitary1 said:


> Thanks for the link.


 
   
  My pleasure, hope you guys enjoy them.  I love them with the Beyer DT880's particularly.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Wi





solitary1 said:


> Please share your impressions of T70 and Pan Am. And I can see your view about the 702 and the Voshkod.



Will do. I've really missed the treble on my K702s, as that is what I find most lacking with my LCD-2s. I really hope the T70s deliver in that regard,


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





twinster said:


> Going from the K702 to the HD650 don't you miss some of the top frequencies?  I owned the HD650 twice (old & new drivers) and liked them and I'm debating on trying them again or the HD600.


 
   
  Well, all I can say, it is a acquired taste (you will find more threads on the Sennheiser sound), some love it (like I do), some hate it. All in the preferably sound you like.


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Wi
> Will do. I've really missed the treble on my K702s, as that is what I find most lacking with my LCD-2s. I really hope the T70s deliver in that regard,


 
   
  I have heard that the LCD-2 is a much improved version of HD650. They are my next set of cans. The K702 is very good alternate of the Sennheisers, my HD650 with tubes just LOVES jazz. The AKG is a all-around for just about anything else.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Just received my T70 (250 ohm) today from Amazon. These are very efficient headphones and require very little in terms of power from the Pan Am. As we all know, the Pan Am has pretty high output impedance; perfect for cans like these. The T70s have polarized many reviewers, with some calling them downright terrible, and others proclaiming them the worthy heir to the DT770s. The two biggest issues described of the T70s are the bass and headband. If I remember correctly, Malveaux painted a picture of a headphone with overly hot treble and essentially nonexistent bass. I find this not to be the case. The bass is deep and feels quite natural to me. This is coming from someone who was satisfied with and spent a great deal of time with both the K702s and LCD2. The headband, which some called cheap and uncomfortable...well...I can't say it's uncomfortable. These are comfy cans. But yes, the headband has this band of cheap plastic running down the whole center of it. It just doesn't feel right on a headphone with a street price of 559 bucks. I really see no reason why Beyerdynamic could have decided to cover the entire headband with the micro velour. Little as I know of the manufacturing process, it does not at all seem like a major cost. Really. Sorry for the rant on the headband, but I felt that I just had to let that out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. The Siemens tubes I'm running them with right now add a greatly appreciated boost to the low end while widening the already wide soundstage. I'm sorry for the rushed impressions--I am fairly busy today and don't have time to proofread or spellcheck (pfft...that's for losers), so just send me a PM if you find anything dramatically wrong. More detailed impressions will follow.


----------



## Twinster

Just received the Pan Am today and was socked by is tinny size. I guest I was tricked by the smaller size of the 6J1 tube. I'm use to the 12AU7 family. Anyway so far I have tried the Pan Am with my Hifiman RE-262 (150 Ohm IEM) and liked the sound. I'm using the Siemens tube for now and they are pretty good. I'm currently listening with the K702 and again it's very nice. The Bass get better presence for sure.
   
I also just ordered this external battery pack from Anker (Model Astro Pro 14400 mAh) for $69 (Beats the Passport at $200). I'll report back with the result.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Yeah-the Pan Am really does a great job with the K702s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I know this is a dumb question, but I guess I'll just go ahead anyway: What's the battery pack for?


----------



## Twinster

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Yeah-the Pan Am really does a great job with the K702s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Based on the reviews I've read they all recommend the Pan Am with the optional Passport battery unit. I found that $200 was to much. I decided to try the Anker Battery Pack that provide at 12 Volt with up to 2Amp. I have emailed ALO Audio requesting the specification of their Passport but have not received a reply yet (3 days). I pretty sure that 14400 mAh should be enough to allow some decent time on battery only.
   
  I'm planning on using this setup outside with my iPad and the Anker will also power my powered USB hub to allow connection of the iPad with the Camera kit on the Pan Am USB in.


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Just received my T70 (250 ohm) today from Amazon. These are very efficient headphones and require very little in terms of power from the Pan Am. As we all know, the Pan Am has pretty high output impedance; perfect for cans like these. The T70s have polarized many reviewers, with some calling them downright terrible, and others proclaiming them the worthy heir to the DT770s. The two biggest issues described of the T70s are the bass and headband. If I remember correctly, Malveaux painted a picture of a headphone with overly hot treble and essentially nonexistent bass. I find this not to be the case. The bass is deep and feels quite natural to me. This is coming from someone who was satisfied with and spent a great deal of time with both the K702s and LCD2. The headband, which some called cheap and uncomfortable...well...I can't say it's uncomfortable. These are comfy cans. But yes, the headband has this band of cheap plastic running down the whole center of it. It just doesn't feel right on a headphone with a street price of 559 bucks. I really see no reason why Beyerdynamic could have decided to cover the entire headband with the micro velour. Little as I know of the manufacturing process, it does not at all seem like a major cost. Really. Sorry for the rant on the headband, but I felt that I just had to let that out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for your impressions on T70's. At this time would prefer the T70 over K702?


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





twinster said:


> Just received the Pan Am today and was socked by is tinny size. I guest I was tricked by the smaller size of the 6J1 tube. I'm use to the 12AU7 family. Anyway so far I have tried the Pan Am with my Hifiman RE-262 (150 Ohm IEM) and liked the sound. I'm using the Siemens tube for now and they are pretty good. I'm currently listening with the K702 and again it's very nice. The Bass get better presence for sure.
> 
> I also just ordered this external battery pack from Anker (Model Astro Pro 14400 mAh) for $69 (Beats the Passport at $200). I'll report back with the result.


 
   
  Congrats! I think you will enjoy the Pan Am with the 702.


----------



## Twinster

Quote: 





solitary1 said:


> Congrats! I think you will enjoy the Pan Am with the 702.


 
   
  Thank you! So far so good. This thing is so small it will be the perfect bedside night table. Even the wife will find it cute


----------



## mediumraresteak

I was about to purchase this until I read the debate between the Passport and Gateway.  If I'm going to use this amp primarily in a desktop setting, won't my constant charging degrade the Passport significantly and lower its lifespan?  But at the same time, I wouldn't want to sacrifice sound quality... decisions decisions..


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





mediumraresteak said:


> I was about to purchase this until I read the debate between the Passport and Gateway.  If I'm going to use this amp primarily in a desktop setting, won't my constant charging degrade the Passport significantly and lower its lifespan?  But at the same time, I wouldn't want to sacrifice sound quality... decisions decisions..


 
  That is a good question. I went with the Passport over the Gateway even though I will use the Pan Am on my desktop, not on go. I just wanted the best sound out of the amp. Has anybody ask ALO about the life expectancy of the Passport? I should have.


----------



## mediumraresteak

Quote: 





solitary1 said:


> That is a good question. I went with the Passport over the Gateway even though I will use the Pan Am on my desktop, not on go. I just wanted the best sound out of the amp. Has anybody ask ALO about the life expectancy of the Passport? I should have.


 
   
  I emailed ALO about it and if helpful, will post their response.  I just wasn't able to find any technical specs on the Passport and if it's simply lithium-ion based, I know it won't last too long at the rate I'll be using and recharging.


----------



## Foxjam

Just got my LCD-2s yesterday.  I thought the HE-400 sounded amazing with the Pan Am but I can't wait to hear what it sounds like once the LCD-2s are burned in.  One step closer to true high end audio!


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





foxjam said:


> Just got my LCD-2s yesterday.  I thought the HE-400 sounded amazing with the Pan Am but I can't wait to hear what it sounds like once the LCD-2s are burned in.  One step closer to true high end audio!


 
  Jealous.


----------



## FatmanSize48

solitary1 said:


> Jealous.



+1. I just shipped out mine back to Audez'e and I miss them already.


----------



## Foxjam

Quote: 





solitary1 said:


> Jealous.


 
  To be honest I never thought I'd ever have something like the Pan Am and LCD-2.  Since I've gotten into headphones I've learned to live very modestly so that I could devote more to headphones.  I gotta say I'm pretty happy with that decision.  Can't wait until the new headphones get settled in!


----------



## Twinster

mediumraresteak said:


> I emailed ALO about it and if helpful, will post their response.  I just wasn't able to find any technical specs on the Passport and if it's simply lithium-ion based, I know it won't last too long at the rate I'll be using and recharging.




I emailed ALO twice and just received an answer. I was asking the capacity of the battery in the Passport in mAh but the answer was that they didn't know and that the only available specification was the 10 hours playtime. They didn't answer my question regarding the possible replacement of the battery pack in the Passport.

I've asked again.


----------



## mediumraresteak

Quote: 





twinster said:


> I emailed ALO twice and just received an answer. I was asking the capacity of the battery in the Passport in mAh but the answer was that they didn't know and that the only available specification was the 10 hours playtime. They didn't answer my question regarding the possible replacement of the battery pack in the Passport.
> 
> I've asked again.


 
... thanks for the update.  I wish I could test it at a local store but majority of reviews I've read agree that Passport is a must for the "best" sound.


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





foxjam said:


> To be honest I never thought I'd ever have something like the Pan Am and LCD-2.  Since I've gotten into headphones I've learned to live very modestly so that I could devote more to headphones.  I gotta say I'm pretty happy with that decision.  Can't wait until the new headphones get settled in!


 
  Hey, not mad at you, congrats! Mine will be here in a couple months.


----------



## Twinster

Here's the last reply from ALO regarding my request of specification on the Passport:
   
 "_When using the Pan Am plugged in it's best to use The Gateway and for travel The Passport is great. If you are going to keep The Passport plugged in, it's best to allow the battery to drain on regular basis as this will allow the battery to remain functional much longer. The Passport battery should last for many years when taken care of properly._
  
 _I will see what I can do about finding out the battery info. "_
  
 Pretty much normal practice on the Passport.
  
 Does anyone has the Gateway and can you please let me know if you notice a difference from the basic 12 volts adapter?


----------



## mentt

Do you find Pan Am with gateway more energetic than with Passport? What are your sound preferences regarding Gateway vs Passport duel?


----------



## Twinster

mentt said:


> Do you find Pan Am with gateway more energetic than with Passport? What are your sound preferences regarding Gateway vs Passport duel?



Not sure if you are asking me but I only have the Pan Am without any additional power upgrade. I'm waiting for my external battery pack to simulate the Passport.


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





twinster said:


> Here's the last reply from ALO regarding my request of specification on the Passport:
> 
> "_When using the Pan Am plugged in it's best to use The Gateway and for travel The Passport is great. If you are going to keep The Passport plugged in, it's best to allow the battery to drain on regular basis as this will allow the battery to remain functional much longer. The Passport battery should last for many years when taken care of properly._
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for the update from ALO,now I know how I can use the Passport at it max potential.


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





mentt said:


> Do you find Pan Am with gateway more energetic than with Passport? What are your sound preferences regarding Gateway vs Passport duel?


 
  I know there is a BIG difference from the wall wart  to the Passport, but, I guess that is a given. Much lower noise floor.


----------



## FatmanSize48

lol I hear no difference. Maybe it's because I'm plugging the wall wart into a decent ($50) power strip or I just don't have the golden ears...


----------



## FatmanSize48

Also, has anyone heard this with the HD800s? I love my T70s so much I might be trading in the LCD2s for HD800s.


----------



## Twinster

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Also, has anyone heard this with the HD800s? I love my T70s so much I might be trading in the LCD2s for HD800s.


 
   
  If you like the T70 so much why not go for the big brother. The Beyerdynamic T1 are very good headphone.


----------



## FatmanSize48

From the few reviews I have now read after receiving the headphones (I purchased them on a whim from Amazon--I saw a deal I couldn't afford NOT to pass up), the T70s are purported to be more of a little, closed brother to the HD800s than T1s. Based upon this, their comfort, and their excellent ability to render classical music, the HD800s see to be the choice for me. Also, I have had the chance to listen to the HD800 in person, while the T1 remains untested. Anyhow, either SHOULD work well with the Pan Am as it seems to love high impedance cans.


----------



## palchiu

I received my new Pan-Am from ALO for RMA.
   
  I found they're different performance between old and new Pan-Am.
   
  New one is smaller soundstage and bigger body with heavier bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, the new one also run hotter. But SQ sounds slighty better.
   
  Still burning it.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

fatmansize48 said:


> Also, has anyone heard this with the HD800s? I love my T70s so much I might be trading in the LCD2s for HD800s.




The HD800 does very well with the Pan Am. I am listening to this combo now (with Cifte tubes) and the sound is lush, warm, detailed and thoroughly engaging. Recommended!!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

r scott ireland said:


> The HD800 does very well with the Pan Am. I am listening to this combo now (with Cifte tubes) and the sound is lush, warm, detailed and thoroughly engaging. Recommended!!




Also, the volume is on 10 o'clock (high gain setting) for full volume. Plenty of power to spare.


----------



## FatmanSize48

r scott ireland said:


> Also, the volume is on 10 o'clock (high gain setting) for full volume. Plenty of power to spare.


Great to hear! I see you have a pair of LCD-2s as well--does the Pan Am the HD800 as well as it does the LCD-2?


----------



## Twinster

I received the external battery pack from Anker (Model Astro Pro 14400 mAh) and I'm confirming that it's powering the PanAm quite well. I've only listened for 20 minutes so it's too early to report any differences.


----------



## mediumraresteak

Quote: 





twinster said:


> I received the external battery pack from Anker (Model Astro Pro 14400 mAh) and I'm confirming that it's powering the PanAm quite well. I've only listened for 20 minutes so it's too early to report any differences.


 
  Oooo please post updates when you can.  I see it's on sale for $60 from Amazon and would pick this up over the Passport/Gateway if possible.


----------



## Currawong

I noticed that the tubes don't glow as brightly with the Passport as they do the Gateway, so I would guess less power is being supplied.
   
  We had a mini-meet on the weekend and the surprise match was the Passport (with Mullard tubes) and the Shure SH-1840. Plenty of comments on how good the DAC is in it.


----------



## mentt

[size=9.5pt]I find Pan Am with Gateway more powerful than with passport, sound is more energetic.  [/size]


----------



## R Scott Ireland

fatmansize48 said:


> Great to hear! I see you have a pair of LCD-2s as well--does the Pan Am the HD800 as well as it does the LCD-2?




I have an LCD-3, but no LCD-2. I actually prefer the HD800 with the Pan Am, although the LCD-3 does well with it too.


----------



## ninewalker

I have a Pan Am with the gateway. I've been on the fence about the passport ever since I even first contemplated about getting the Pan Am. 200 for a battery is a bit steep and the Pan Am was staying on my desktop. But since getting the amp and using it I've always wondered whether I was missing out on sound quality. I mean, I'm perfectly happy with it right now. I just can't help but wonder.


----------



## mentt

Quote: 





ninewalker said:


> I have a Pan Am with the gateway. I've been on the fence about the passport ever since I even first contemplated about getting the Pan Am. 200 for a battery is a bit steep and the Pan Am was staying on my desktop. But since getting the amp and using it I've always wondered whether I was missing out on sound quality. I mean, I'm perfectly happy with it right now. I just can't help but wonder.


 
[size=10pt]I actually think that Gateway is better with LCD2s than Pan Am/Password or at least at the same level... [/size]


----------



## mediumraresteak

ALO's Josh just responded back to me with this:

 "If you are not planning on using the portable capabilities of The Passport, The Gateway is really a great option and it sounds quite good. The Passport will sound better if you have noisy AC in your place, but if the AC is fairly clean you'll get a nice, quiet experience out of your Pan Am with The Gateway. I mainly use the Gateway as I use my Pan Am here at my desk and it works very well for me. 
  
 At this time we do not have a replacement program for The Passport, we haven't had any trouble with the batteries so far  
  
 Let me know if you have further questions, I'm happy to help."
  
 Guess I'll go for the Passport since my house is a bit old and I'm sure AC source isn't clean.  Or I'll get the Model Astro Pro 14400 mAh as twinster posted earlier.


----------



## FatmanSize48

r scott ireland said:


> I have an LCD-3, but no LCD-2. I actually prefer the HD800 with the Pan Am, although the LCD-3 does well with it too.


Very interesting! I just assumed LCD-2 from the tiny, pixelated avatar pic on my iPhone.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

r scott ireland said:


> I have an LCD-3, but no LCD-2. I actually prefer the HD800 with the Pan Am, although the LCD-3 does well with it too.




I must revise this a bit. Today I listened to the LCD-3 with the Cifte tubes, and it was just as nice as it was with the HD800. Different, but equally enjoyable. The LCD-3 bass is stronger but still very detailed. Overall, the LCD-3 has a warmer, smoother presentation, but all of the detail is there, and the soundstage is similar to the HD800 (medium-wide for lack of a better description). Both headphones are very good with the Pan Am, certainly with these tubes.


----------



## FatmanSize48

r scott ireland said:


> I must revise this a bit. Today I listened to the LCD-3 with the Cifte tubes, and it was just as nice as it was with the HD800. Different, but equally enjoyable. The LCD-3 bass is stronger but still very detailed. Overall, the LCD-3 has a warmer, smoother presentation, but all of the detail is there, and the soundstage is similar to the HD800 (medium-wide for lack of a better description). Both headphones are very good with the Pan Am, certainly with these tubes.



Thanks for the updated impressions. As much as a fan of Audez'e I once was, I now prefer the sound signature of the HD800s.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

fatmansize48 said:


> Thanks for the updated impressions. As much as a fan of Audez'e I once was, I now prefer the sound signature of the HD800s.




You can't go wrong with HD800's!

What's remarkable is how well the diminutive Pan Am handles all of these different headphones so well.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Went out and listened to the HD700s yesterday. Let's just say I was disappointed.


----------



## FatmanSize48

^ This was with the Pan Am.


----------



## Solitary1

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Went out and listened to the HD700s yesterday. Let's just say I was disappointed.


 
  Really? What did you not like about them, just curious, have not heard the 700's?


----------



## FatmanSize48

How's this: while the HD700s are not bad headphones per se, their aggressive voicing (a la Grado) and relative performance to the HD600/650 put them at a competitive disadvantage to really any headphones in the price range.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Remember that this is coming from an LCD-2 owner wishing to transition to the HD800s. I think the LCD-2s perform really, uh, better than any other headphone I've heard (not including the T1, unfortunately) for rock and small ensemble classical. This explains my urge to switch over to the HD800s, as they excel at the large ensemble classical and opera that has grown to dominate my current listening habits.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Lastly, the LCD-2 (and the HE-500, which I also have not heard) easily beats the HD700 in technicalities. The only advantage that lies with the HD700s is comfort, a trait reminiscent of its larger sibling, the HD809.


----------



## Solitary1

Yeah, I have heard lots negatives about the HD700 in comparing to the other high-end headphones in the last few years. Me, being an acknowledged fanboy of HD580-6xx series was sorry that Sennheiser dropped the ball on these.


----------



## McKajVah

How is the Pan Am compared to the Project Sunrise II or Ember?

I have a He-500 and need an amplifier to use when I stay 12 days on a hotel every month. Today I use an Aune T1, and feel it's not up for the job completely.


----------



## Zakin

Quote: 





mckajvah said:


> How is the Pan Am compared to the Project Sunrise II or Ember?
> 
> I have a He-500 and need an amplifier to use when I stay 12 days on a hotel every month. Today I use an Aune T1, and feel it's not up for the job completely.


 
  I would also definitely like to know if anyone has been able to compare these, been looking at trying an Ember out myself.


----------



## mentt

I have Pan Am and LCD2. As HD650 is also excellent match for Pan Am, do you think that it is worth to buy also HD650 to complement LCD2?


----------



## FatmanSize48

I wouldn't say so, but it depends on what you would use the HD650 for. The LCD-2 is a lot line a big brother to the HD650s, so all you would gain from having them is the wider soundstage, which might be useful for larger ensemble classical.


----------



## mentt

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> I wouldn't say so, but it depends on what you would use the HD650 for. The LCD-2 is a lot line a big brother to the HD650s, so all you would gain from having them is the wider soundstage, which might be useful for larger ensemble classical.


 
  I only listen to indie and alternativ music.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Then I don't see where you'd gain anything from the 650s. You're better off saving for LCD-3s.


----------



## mentt

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Then I don't see where you'd gain anything from the 650s. You're better off saving for LCD-3s.


 
  LCD-3s would be nice, but I don't know if the price is justifiable. What about  Denon AH-D600? You can get them for £229.99 on Amazon.


----------



## FatmanSize48

If I were you, I'd look into getting a closed headphone that complements the LCD-2s. The Denons (I've only heard the old DX000 line, and by all accounts the current crop is a big downgrade in all aspects) are just another bassy headphone, more so than the LCD-2s. You would never use them because they don't sound different enough and offer such poor isolation that one starts to wonder why a closed design was used in the first place. I went with a pair of T70s for their comfort and dramatically different sound. I find myself appreciating my LCD-2s more for the genres I bought them for: classic rock and alternative (pre TKoL Radiohead, Muse, pre Viva la Vida Coldplay). If indie and alt is what you listen to, it seems you just need a closed, comfortable alternative. For varying amounts of bass, I'd check out the DT770 line. They are quite comfy and isolate well enough to be used on the go. The next level would be Momentums. Which look beautiful, if I may add. Lastly, I would say the T70s are a great buy, but at their common street price of $569, they're not worth it. But if you can get them for less than $500, feel free to give em a go. Amazon Warehouse deals are your best friend: I paid $330 or so for a LNIB pair, and I think they're worth far more than that.


----------



## mediumraresteak

Did the new ALO site get rid of the "Buy Together" option?


----------



## FatmanSize48

I hope not. Otherwise it would be hard to rationalize buying the Passport for $200.


----------



## seeteeyou

.


----------



## mentt

I can't help my self but I prefer default Chines tubes over Siemens, Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV  and Mullard CV4010. With those tubes Pan Am/LCD2 magic is gone...


----------



## DizzyD

Hi Friends
   
  Have anyone tried using a power USB hub to power the Pan Am? I am thinking of getting iUSB and using one power only out to power the Pan AM.
  I have read that Pan Am will not power up with the USB port of a laptop or Mac hence the question.
   
  Thx for reading!


----------



## mentt

Which tubes do you prefer with Beyerdynamic T1?
  Also in case of T1 I think default tubes sound best. On second place I would place Mullard CV4010. Siemens tubes are not very good match and Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV are almost not listenable.


----------



## GarySaville

@Dizzyd
  The Pan Am needs to be plugged in, either with the provided wallwart, or with the optional Passport battery pack or Gateway power module. I have the ifi iUSB, but its only function is to limit cycle hum and clean usb power. It sounds like what you need is the Pan Am and the Passport battery pack.


----------



## DizzyD

Thanks
   
  Besides Gateway, does anymore bought a different make external PSU to match with Pan Am? Am thinking about the KingRex 12v PSU. 
   
  Regards


----------



## NZheadcase

In case anyone was wondering if the PanAm works with Android devices, I can confirm that it works with the Sony Tablet Z and Z phone at least. Sorry for the bad quality photo. This is straight from USB OTG>Pan Am USB Cable>Pan Am USB Input>LCD 2.2. The Walkman app plays FLAC files direct but I'm sure there will be other apps that can play FLAC.


----------



## Twinster

nzheadcase said:


> In case anyone was wondering if the PanAm works with Android devices, I can confirm that it works with the Sony Tablet Z and Z phone at least. Sorry for the bad quality photo. This is straight from USB OTG>Pan Am USB Cable>Pan Am USB Input>LCD 2.2. The Walkman app plays FLAC files direct but I'm sure there will be other apps that can play FLAC.



I'm also using my Pan Am with my Samsung SIII as a portable in the house.


----------



## DTKZ

I can't get it to work as a usb dac with my Galaxy Note II. Any suggestions?


----------



## Twinster

dtkz said:


> I can't get it to work as a usb dac with my Galaxy Note II. Any suggestions?




Have you tried enabling the USB debugging under Developer options? Also I'm assuming that you are using an OTG cable.


----------



## DTKZ

Yup on both counts. I saw in the USB android DACs thread that the Pan Am would function with the SIII with USB debugging on, but in my case, the DAC seems to be detected but no sound is produced and the track plays at a faster speed. I thought it should work since I thought that whatever worked on an SIII would work with the Note II. Maybe your SIII is using a different SOC and that's the cause of the difference? Is your SIII the Snapdragon variant? My Note II uses the Exynos.
   
  As an aside, Twinster, what kind of battery life are you getting from your Anker Astro Pro with the Pan Am? I was thinking getting the Astro Pro2 since it costs roughly half what the passport costs? Also, any comments on the sound quality?


----------



## Twinster

dtkz said:


> Yup on both counts. I saw in the USB android DACs thread that the Pan Am would function with the SIII with USB debugging on, but in my case, the DAC seems to be detected but no sound is produced and the track plays at a faster speed. I thought it should work since I thought that whatever worked on an SIII would work with the Note II. Maybe your SIII is using a different SOC and that's the cause of the difference? Is your SIII the Snapdragon variant? My Note II uses the Exynos.
> 
> As an aside, Twinster, what kind of battery life are you getting from your Anker Astro Pro with the Pan Am? I was thinking getting the Astro Pro2 since it costs roughly half what the passport costs? Also, any comments on the sound quality?




Mine is a Snapdragon version. Have you tried the Recorder pro application? I'm getting very good battery life tat I never ran out. I can go for at least 12 hours on one full charge. That is my guesstimate.

Sound quality is very good to my ears. I have 4 sets of various tubes and haven't try them all yet. I'm using the French tube now and like them. I still want to do a proper structure review but every time I start listening I just continue enjoying the music and forget the review notes.


----------



## DTKZ

Thanks Twinster. Tried UARP and it works. Too bad space is at too much of a premium for me to load my phone with hi-res files. Fortunately, I bought the Pan Am more as a transportable amp than as a DAC so it's not too disappointing. The Pan Am used as just an amp is certainly very far from disappointing.


----------



## Twinster

Quote: 





dtkz said:


> Thanks Twinster. Tried UARP and it works. Too bad space is at too much of a premium for me to load my phone with hi-res files. Fortunately, I bought the Pan Am more as a transportable amp than as a DAC so it's not too disappointing. The Pan Am used as just an amp is certainly very far from disappointing.


 
   
  Glad it work for you. But I would have thought that the USB Debugging Mode have worked on the Note II. And yes the Pan Am is a great piece of Gear.


----------



## campj

I searched this thread for Grado and see that a few people have posted questions about how the PanAm couples with Grados, but I haven't seen any definitive answers yet. I also am curious about how the amp does with SR325is. I know it's recommended to use headphones with impedance above 50ohms, but is the sound really that bad out of the 32ohm 325is?
   
  Also, how would the sound of this amp be described when listening to Senn HD600? I listen to lots of very complex, fast music and I'm looking for a neutral pair of phones. I'm curious if this would be a good pairing for my interests.
   
  Any help will be greatly appreciated!


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





campj said:


> I searched this thread for Grado and see that a few people have posted questions about how the PanAm couples with Grados, but I haven't seen any definitive answers yet. I also am curious about how the amp does with SR325is. I know it's recommended to use headphones with impedance above 50ohms, but is the sound really that bad out of the 32ohm 325is?
> 
> Also, how would the sound of this amp be described when listening to Senn HD600? I listen to lots of very complex, fast music and I'm looking for a neutral pair of phones. I'm curious if this would be a good pairing for my interests.
> 
> Any help will be greatly appreciated!


 
   
  I have the PS-500 and the SR-125 and they both work just fine with the Pan Am, though to my ears they tend to sound better with a warmer tube like the Raytheon or Tung-Sol.


----------



## Johbremat

Just joined the club.  The Russian tubes are still on backorder so only using the supplied Seimens.
   
  Not entirely familiar with this world, having only used a Sony PHA-1 with the headphones I've got lying around, but DAMN.  If my tunes can sound this good out the box, what is it going to sound like once all my kit's burned in?
   
  Using a Sony NW-F807 as the source with RCA LOD, and typing this while listening to Thom Yorke's 'The Eraser' through Sony MDR-SA5000.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





johbremat said:


> Just joined the club.  The Russian tubes are still on backorder so only using the supplied Seimens.
> 
> Not entirely familiar with this world, having only used a Sony PHA-1 with the headphones I've got lying around, but DAMN.  If my tunes can sound this good out the box, what is it going to sound like once all my kit's burned in?
> 
> Using a Sony NW-F807 as the source with RCA LOD, and typing this while listening to Thom Yorke's 'The Eraser' through Sony MDR-SA5000.


 
   
  Welcome aboard!
   
  The Pan Am is an amazing little amp.  It sounds really good with most tubes. My favorites are Cifte's, Mullards and Voskhods.
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## campj

Quote: 





bsn said:


> I have the PS-500 and the SR-125 and they both work just fine with the Pan Am, though to my ears they tend to sound better with a warmer tube like the Raytheon or Tung-Sol.


 
  Thanks BSN. I love me some 325is!
   
  I have a couple more questions that I haven't seen answered or addressed in this thread: does anyone have any experience with HE-500 on the PanAm? Is the amp/DAC appropriate for very fast music (death metal, psytrance, etc)?
   
  I'm thinking this may be the one to get.


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





campj said:


> Thanks BSN. I love me some 325is!
> 
> I have a couple more questions that I haven't seen answered or addressed in this thread: does anyone have any experience with HE-500 on the PanAm? Is the amp/DAC appropriate for very fast music (death metal, psytrance, etc)?
> 
> I'm thinking this may be the one to get.


 
  The Pan Am DAC is not bad by any means, but to my ears the Pan Am amp has great detail and sounds even better being fed from a more upscale DAC. That being said, it would probably be fine for most types of music including metal.   You can always get an upgraded DAC later on if for some reason you are not happy with the on-board DAC.


----------



## DizzyD

Hi Friends
   
  My Pam Am comes with the 6X1Π-EB tubes. Are these the same as the Voshkod *6ZH1P-EV ? *
   I would like to try to Voshkods.
   
*Thx for replying.*


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





campj said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I only had a problem with fast music becoming a bit blurry with the LCD-3s, which demand a lot of current.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Quote: 





bsn said:


> The Pan Am DAC is not bad by any means, but to my ears the Pan Am amp has great detail and sounds even better being fed from a more upscale DAC. That being said, it would probably be fine for most types of music including metal.   You can always get an upgraded DAC later on if for some reason you are not happy with the on-board DAC.


 
  Agreed. For some reason, I prefer listening to my ODAC feeding the Pan Am; separation "blackness," and dynamic range all seem a bit more defined. Of course, this may be due to a higher gain applied by the ODAC, placebo, or expectation bias. I'm looking to soon conduct a "test-that-shalt-not-be-named" with matched volume to see which DAC is truly better.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Agreed. For some reason, I prefer listening to my ODAC feeding the Pan Am; separation "blackness," and dynamic range all seem a bit more defined. Of course, this may be due to a higher gain applied by the ODAC, placebo, or expectation bias. I'm looking to soon conduct a "test-that-shalt-not-be-named" with matched volume to see which DAC is truly better.


 
   
  My Pan Am sounds fantastic just being driven by the DAC's inside the HiFiMan HM-801 and the iBasso DX100 (using line out from both). In most cases it sounds as good as my Lyr/Bifrost Uber (better in some cases), and even the Liquid Glass.  It is certainly the easiest to match up good sound with particular headphones/tubes.


----------



## FatmanSize48

r scott ireland said:


> My Pan Am sounds fantastic just being driven by the DAC's inside the HiFiMan HM-801 and the iBasso DX100 (using line out from both). In most cases it sounds as good as my Lyr/Bifrost Uber (better in some cases), and even the Liquid Glass.  It is certainly the easiest to match up good sound with particular headphones/tubes.



Would you consider the Pan Am mid-fi or hi-fi? From what I know, it really is fairly easy to drive the HD800 "pretty well." How would you say the Pan Am compares to your Liquid Glass?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

fatmansize48 said:


> Would you consider the Pan Am mid-fi or hi-fi? From what I know, it really is fairly easy to drive the HD800 "pretty well." How would you say the Pan Am compares to your Liquid Glass?




I consider the Pan Am somewhere between mid-fi and hi-fi, but much closer to hi-fi. The LG drives the HD800 with more authority, but not THAT much more. I think the biggest difference is the incredible number of choices you have with tubes for the LG. Much more than with the Pan Am. You can find that magic glass that really brings out the best in a particular headphone (if your wallet can survive). That said, with the Pan Am almost all of the tubes I've tried sound great with various phones, and the 6AK5 tubes are cheap, really cheap, compared to the best 6DJ8 or 6SN7 glass. Certain phones, like the Denon D7000 and the Audio Technica AD2000, sound so good with the Pan Am that I have stopped trying to find better sound/better tubes with the LG. With the ones I've tried so far, the Pan Am wins. 

With the LCD-3 and HD800, I do better with the LG (and the Lyr/Bifrost-Uber too), when using the best Amperex, Siemens, Telefunken Noval tubes, and good Octal tubes in the LG.


----------



## Twinster

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> I consider the Pan Am somewhere between mid-fi and hi-fi, but much closer to hi-fi. The LG drives the HD800 with more authority, but not THAT much more. I think the biggest difference is the incredible number of choices you have with tubes for the LG. Much more than with the Pan Am. You can find that magic glass that really brings out the best in a particular headphone (if your wallet can survive). That said, with the Pan Am almost all of the tubes I've tried sound great with various phones, and the 6AK5 tubes are cheap, really cheap, compared to the best 6DJ8 or 6SN7 glass. Certain phones, like the Denon D7000 and the Audio Technica AD2000, sound so good with the Pan Am that I have stopped trying to find better sound/better tubes with the LG. With the ones I've tried so far, the Pan Am wins.
> 
> With the LCD-3 and HD800, I do better with the LG (and the Lyr/Bifrost-Uber too), when using the best Amperex, Siemens, Telefunken Noval tubes, and good Octal tubes in the LG.


 
   
   
  Now I have to try my D7000 with my PanAm. What tube are you using for the Denon? if you don't mine me asking.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

twinster said:


> Now I have to try my D7000 with my PanAm. What tube are you using for the Denon? if you don't mine me asking.




The D7000 sounds great with both the Cifte tubes and the Russian 6J1P-EV tubes.


----------



## Twinster

r scott ireland said:


> The D7000 sounds great with both the Cifte tubes and the Russian 6J1P-EV tubes.




Thank you. I was listening to the Cifte tubes with HD580 yesterday and swap them for the Mullard Cv4010 and preferred the later. They have great mid's and so smooth. I still haven't tried all my tube option. Very a fun piece of kit this PanAm


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





twinster said:


> Thank you. I was listening to the Cifte tubes with HD580 yesterday and swap them for the Mullard Cv4010 and preferred the later. They have great mid's and so smooth. I still haven't tried all my tube option. Very a fun piece of kit this PanAm


 
   
  Interestingly, although I love the Mullards with most phones, with the D7000's I preferred both the Cifte's and the plain, vanilla Russian tubes that you can get from ALO (I even preferred these to the Voskhod Rockets).  I think perhaps it's due to the "warmness" of the D7000's.  The Mullards are also warm and I think that the other tubes just managed to find that special synergy and perfectly balance with the D7000, at least to my ears.


----------



## Twinster

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Interestingly, although I love the Mullards with most phones, with the D7000's I preferred both the Cifte's and the plain, vanilla Russian tubes that you can get from ALO (I even preferred these to the Voskhod Rockets).  I think perhaps it's due to the "warmness" of the D7000's.  The Mullards are also warm and I think that the other tubes just managed to find that special synergy and perfectly balance with the D7000, at least to my ears.


 
   
  I have not tried my D7000 with the PanAm yet. But I will and will try the Cifte and the Russian tube too.


----------



## voteforpedro

Gosh, my head is spinning with all of the tube model numbers out there. I am about to place an order with tubes.tw, and I am not sure which Mullard tubes I need to buy for my PanAm.
   
  Anybody have specific model number(s)? Thanks so much!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

voteforpedro said:


> Gosh, my head is spinning with all of the tube model numbers out there. I am about to place an order with tubes.tw, and I am not sure which Mullard tubes I need to buy for my PanAm.
> 
> Anybody have specific model number(s)? Thanks so much!




You want Mullard CV4010 tubes.

Here's the link:

http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?products_id=271

While you're there, I highly recommend you pick up some Cifte tubes also:

http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1068

Both the Mullards and the Cifte's are wonderful tubes for the Pan Am.


----------



## Twinster

r scott ireland said:


> You want Mullard CV4010 tubes.
> 
> Here's the link:
> 
> ...


+1 ^


----------



## voteforpedro

awesome. Thanks so so much! All of these tube numbers make my head sping around like the exorcist, I tell ya. I just ordered 2 pairs of each, plus the Russian ones on ALO's web site. Sheesh, I am set for a while!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

voteforpedro said:


> awesome. Thanks so so much! All of these tube numbers make my head sping around like the exorcist, I tell ya. I just ordered 2 pairs of each, plus the Russian ones on ALO's web site. Sheesh, I am set for a while!




Those are 3 sets of tubes that are all excellent with the Pan Am and should cover your needs very well. Enjoy, and be sure to let us know how you like them!


----------



## voteforpedro

I think my biggest challenge is going to be the burn-in time for each of the 4 sets of tubes. It's like Christmas in September, I tell ya. It's awesome. I haven't gotten this excited about audio since I had my Dahlquist DQ10's back in the 80's. Well, maybe since the 90's when I had a pair of Martin Logans, but still that's a long way back.


----------



## Wil

Back in the game after a LONGGGGGG Hiatus.
  
 Got my hands on a used Pan Am with Passport to power my LCD-2 (Rev 2s)
  
 Everything sounds super dandy ( I've bypassed the DAC on the Pan Am and am running it via my Eastern Electric Minimax, connected to Foobar via a Halide Design SPDIF bridge.
  
 Just a very quick question....The wallwart charging the Passport, i presumes it changes color from red to green once the Passport is fully charged?
  
 : D so excited!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

wil said:


> Back in the game after a LONGGGGGG Hiatus.
> 
> Got my hands on a used Pan Am with Passport to power my LCD-2 (Rev 2s)
> 
> ...


 
 Yes.  Red to Green and it's charged.
  
 Enjoy your new Pan Am.  I love mine!


----------



## Wil

r scott ireland said:


> Yes.  Red to Green and it's charged.
> 
> Enjoy your new Pan Am.  I love mine!


 
  
 Thanks! Indeed i will. If my memory serves me correctly, the Pan Am sounds more engaging than what i remember the Lyr / LCD-2 combo to be..merely initial impressions but they do sound seriously good.


----------



## Annafrancesca

Hi there,
  
 I recently bought a PanAm and Passport. I plan to take it with me on a flight and I was just wondering, now with strict regulations around batteries in both checked-in and carry-on baggages on planes. I just want to know if taking the passport with me will cause any issues with the Airlines.
  
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## NZheadcase

Best consult your Airline of choice. I plan on traveling with the PanAm too. Found this on Quantas website:
  
 http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/dangerous-goods/global/en
  
 You can email ALO about the ratings of the battery in the passport.  I'm sure it has been mentioned here in the thread but I have been unable to pinpoint it.


----------



## NZheadcase

Tried the TH900 with the PanAm for the first time today. I was not very optimistic as I read people were not overly enthusiastic with pairing the PanAm with lower impedance phones (under 50 Ohms). 
  
 But the TH900 - all 25Ohms - and PanAm have been excellent so far. I've had them on playing a variety of music for the past 3 hours and 95% of the time with enjoyable result. Much has been said about how the PanAm pairs well with the LCD 2. This pairing is right there in terms of synergy. I need to spend more time with the pair, and hopefully give a more detailed account sometime down the line. 
  
 Sorry for the short post. Suffice to say for now that the pairing is so good, I just felt compelled to let people know.


----------



## shigzeo

Keep 'em coming! Thanks for the update. The TH900 are sweet and pair well with valve amps. I've not spent enough time with the pair to add much to this conversation.


----------



## voteforpedro

I just received my Clifté and Mullard tubes yesterday, and am listening to the PanAm w/Mullard tubes / Audeze LCD2 combo right now. I know it will take some burning in to get the tubes to reveal their beauty, so I am not going to pass judgement too soon.


----------



## Annafrancesca

nzheadcase said:


> Best consult your Airline of choice. I plan on traveling with the PanAm too. Found this on Quantas website:
> 
> http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/dangerous-goods/global/en
> 
> You can email ALO about the ratings of the battery in the passport.  I'm sure it has been mentioned here in the thread but I have been unable to pinpoint it.


 
  
 Thanks,
  
 I am traveling via Qantas too. I checked the link and it is really helpful. The literature on the Passport Box says 11.2V 3000mAH/33.3WH which is below the 100Whr aircraft restriction. I also got an email from Ken saying that he has never heard of issues about bringing the passport in your carry-on. 
  
 It would be best to bring the literature that came with the Passport and present it to the security personnel if asked.
  
 Now, I won't be worrying about leaving the passport behind 
  
 Thank you


----------



## shigzeo

A few years ago, I carried a WA3+ on an airline. It took forever to get through security, but it worked.


----------



## NZheadcase

annafrancesca said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I am traveling via Qantas too. I checked the link and it is really helpful. The literature on the Passport Box says 11.2V 3000mAH/33.3WH which is below the 100Whr aircraft restriction. I also got an email from Ken saying that he has never heard of issues about bringing the passport in your carry-on.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I forgot to post that I was able to take the passport on a domestic flight.  Only issue is, it's quite bulky if you are on in the economy section. The upside is, you get first-class audio.


----------



## papahommer

Hi guys, just wondering if anybody has any issue with the DAC? I tried to plug in to my Mac, it can pick up the PanAm, but I can't seems to get it to work? I have got no sound and the master slider bar shows as fully 0... 

Any advice? Other then this, it's beautiful!!!


----------



## mentt

papahommer said:


> Hi guys, just wondering if anybody has any issue with the DAC? I tried to plug in to my Mac, it can pick up the PanAm, but I can't seems to get it to work? I have got no sound and the master slider bar shows as fully 0...
> 
> Any advice? Other then this, it's beautiful!!!


 
  
 Try switch on the back and choose correct source.


----------



## papahommer

mentt said:


> Try switch on the back and choose correct source.




I did... I used the RCA input from my iDAC, it work beautifully. So I am wondering if I have gotten a defective set or something...


----------



## NZheadcase

Are you certain you selected the pan am as the output device? You could post a screenshot of the settings on the mac so that we can see. Sucks if it is faulty.


----------



## NZheadcase

I just remembered i had the same issue using the pan am usb. Grab the usb and make sure it goes all in to the usb port on the mac. If it is a little loose, you wont get sound. Maybe give that a try?


----------



## shigzeo

I am interested, too. Pan Am is plug'n play on every single device I have tried.


----------



## papahommer

nzheadcase said:


> Are you certain you selected the pan am as the output device? You could post a screenshot of the settings on the mac so that we can see. Sucks if it is faulty.


 
  
  


nzheadcase said:


> I just remembered i had the same issue using the pan am usb. Grab the usb and make sure it goes all in to the usb port on the mac. If it is a little loose, you wont get sound. Maybe give that a try?


 
  
 Hi thanks for the info... I did make sure that I plug in all the way... 
 I also tried another USB cable, just in case, but the master volume slider bar just did not allow me to slide it all the way... 
  
 But I just love it too much now to send it back... TeeHeeHee... I just have to learn to live with using the iDAC with my laptop for now.
  
 But thanks anyway, I just wondering if anybody has the same issue, or it seems it's just me...


----------



## papahommer

shigzeo said:


> I am interested, too. Pan Am is plug'n play on every single device I have tried.


 
  
 Hi Shigzeo, 
  
 To be honest, I have not try it in Windows, so I cannot comment much...


----------



## R Scott Ireland

papahommer said:


> Hi thanks for the info... I did make sure that I plug in all the way...
> I also tried another USB cable, just in case, but the master volume slider bar just did not allow me to slide it all the way...
> 
> But I just love it too much now to send it back... TeeHeeHee... I just have to learn to live with using the iDAC with my laptop for now.
> ...


 
  
  
 Sorry, I've never tried using it as a DAC. I feed it line out from a DX100 and it sounds great.


----------



## badgerbimmer

Hi everyone. New to the Pan Am, in fact have not yet received it. Ordered the Pan Am, Gateway and the additional 2 sets of tubes. I have a question that I can not seem to find a clear answer to on the ALO website. For portable I run  IPOD classic => Algorythm Solo=> Portaphile 627x. The algorythm of course takes the digital feed from the IPOD. It was my understanding that like the IPOD etc a specific device was necessary to pull the digital feed from a Macbook. Consequently unless the Pan Am has this technology built into it you can not pull the digital feed from the Macbook to the Pan Am's DAC. Is this correct?
  
 I will likely run it from the Algorythm in any event as that would be the superior DAC. Just wondering if direct hook up with a Macbook would work in the digital realm.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Twinster

badgerbimmer said:


> Hi everyone. New to the Pan Am, in fact have not yet received it. Ordered the Pan Am, Gateway and the additional 2 sets of tubes. I have a question that I can not seem to find a clear answer to on the ALO website. For portable I run  IPOD classic => Algorythm Solo=> Portaphile 627x. The algorythm of course takes the digital feed from the IPOD. It was my understanding that like the IPOD etc a specific device was necessary to pull the digital feed from a Macbook. Consequently unless the Pan Am has this technology built into it you can not pull the digital feed from the Macbook to the Pan Am's DAC. Is this correct?
> 
> I will likely run it from the Algorythm in any event as that would be the superior DAC. Just wondering if direct hook up with a Macbook would work in the digital realm.
> 
> Thanks




Yes of course. You just need to connect via the USB port to your MacBook. This will send digital signal to PanAm.


----------



## badgerbimmer

received the Pan Am. Sounds great feed by the Algorthym Solo, not so good the MacBook Pro. I go into system preferences go into sounds select the ALO via usb as the output. I suspect this is an analog feed not a digital as the volume can be controlled on the MacBook. How do i get a digital feed to the Pan Am?


----------



## Kiont

badgerbimmer said:


> received the Pan Am. Sounds great feed by the Algorthym Solo, not so good the MacBook Pro. I go into system preferences go into sounds select the ALO via usb as the output. I suspect this is an analog feed not a digital as the volume can be controlled on the MacBook. How do i get a digital feed to the Pan Am?




USB is digital, so you are good there...

Make sure your mac is not altering the feed in any way ( EQ, special effects, etc) also check for proper output sampling rate.
Max out the volume on the laptop and control it from the Pan Am


----------



## shigzeo

Oftentimes, analogue input resolves details better than USB input does. Why? Could be controller issues, could be computer noise. I would suggest using the Pan Am via battery and fed by analogue sources for best possible sound quality.


----------



## Currawong

I recommend setting the volume control on iTunes to maximum to ensure you aren't potentially degrading the digital information.


----------



## papahommer

Just got my CIFTE 5654 tubes in the mail today, MAN!!! Do they sound nice!!!
  
 I think I am done tube rolling with the PanAm, I think these are the tubes for me!!!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

papahommer said:


> Just got my CIFTE 5654 tubes in the mail today, MAN!!! Do they sound nice!!!
> 
> I think I am done tube rolling with the PanAm, I think these are the tubes for me!!!


 
  
  
 Nawwww . . got to have some Mullard CV4010's and Russian tubes too!!
  
 The Cifte's are great sounding tubes (I've had mine rolled in for awhile now).
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## GarySaville

papahommer said:


> Just got my CIFTE 5654 tubes in the mail today, MAN!!! Do they sound nice!!!
> 
> I think I am done tube rolling with the PanAm, I think these are the tubes for me!!!


 
  
 What are the sound characteristics of the CIFTE 5654?
 I have settled on the Mullards, and really love them. There is something sweet and open in the mids that makes the sound very expansive. But, the bass is not as punchy as the Centrance Hi-Fi m8. While I am very happy with the Pan-Am/Mullards, (it edges out the HiFi M8 in overall quality), I would like to find tubes with a bit more punch if that is possible from the amp.


----------



## badgerbimmer

kiont said:


> USB is digital, so you are good there...
> 
> Make sure your mac is not altering the feed in any way ( EQ, special effects, etc) also check for proper output sampling rate.
> Max out the volume on the laptop and control it from the Pan Am


 
  
 went into audio/midi changed sample rate to 24/96. Thanks for the heads up much improved!
  
 thanks


----------



## badgerbimmer

it is amazing how mych better the $9 Russian tubes sound than the "stock" tubes! I have yet to roll in the Siemens.


----------



## badgerbimmer

Just rolled in the Siemens. A bit bright as has been noted. however easy to tell that these will be the best of the 3 available from ALO.


----------



## ahhui90

anyone else tried using anker astro pro with the pan am? it says output at 2A. isn't it twice of the walwart?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

ahhui90 said:


> anyone else tried using anker astro pro with the pan am? it says output at 2A. isn't it twice of the walwart?


 
  
 I've tried the Astro Pro 10,000 (for short periods) with no apparent ill effects.  However, I mainly use the Passport battery.  The Anker is back-up power for various devices, including the Pan Am, DX100, etc.


----------



## zilch0md

ahhui90 said:


> anyone else tried using anker astro pro with the pan am? it says output at 2A. isn't it twice of the walwart?


 
  
 It's OK to use a power supply that offers more Amps than what the load requires. 
  
It's not OK to use a power supply that offers a different voltage (or a voltage that's not polarized correctly at the connector).
  
 Mike


----------



## Ricky2u

Hello all just need some advice on my new Pan Am I got today. I have the Passport and Gateway connected correctly and I have a USB connection running at 96/24 in Windows 8.
  
 Now my issue which I think is due to needing burn in time on the stock tubes, is that on the LCD-2 I notice that on songs with a lot of instruments/background music start to get slightly distorted. I understand that the Pan Am should have enough power to drive the LCD-2 at High Gian Volume on medium level.
  
 I have a Schiit Lyr as well and the LCD-2 don't occur the same symptoms. Do you believe running pink noise for a certain amount of hours will resolve this?
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Ricky2u

Just a update, bit more burn in and its better. What I also found out is that I'm used to the amount of watts the Lyr outputs and treating the Pan Am that it can pump out that much juice. Putting the volume just below medium sounds fine for now.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Just curious.  Has any PanAm owners tried to feed the DAC with an iDevice using Apple's Camera Connection Kit (CCK)?  I know it works on ALO's International and was wondering if this amp does the same...


----------



## shigzeo

It works from the iPad. If you have a jailbreaked iPhone/iPod touch it works, too. The DAC draws a very little amount of electricity so plug and play.


----------



## NZheadcase

Thanks for that Shigzeo. I can't believe I've owned it this long and not tried it with a CCK. hahahaha!
  
 I usually have it hooked up to a MAC. Time to buy a CCK i guess.


----------



## shigzeo

It is one of the coolest things about the Pan Am. If you have the battery pack, it really is a fully operational portable amp!


----------



## NZheadcase

I know it works directly with the Sony Xperia Z tablet as I occasionally use them together (see photo in the recent photo of this thread). I guess because I never use my iPad 2 for audio playback, I never really put much thought into it. I actually thought it would not work so I never tried. 
  
 But now I want to try it.  There's 40 Gigs on it remaining that is screaming to be filled with FLAC files.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

That's good news.  With IOS7, the CCK trick should then work with all iDevices now (if they can run IOS7 that is)......
  
 I'm a bit surprised ALO doesn't mention this, like they did with the International.


----------



## NZheadcase

Just sharing some thoughts and experiences on headphone pairings guys. Take this with the usual grain of salt.
  
 The PanAm is not a good match for the HE500. (yes, yes, I know I should have known that even before I tried, but hey experiencing something for one's self is the best teacher, no?)
  
 After many, many, manyyyyyy hours of listening and tube rolling, I have come to this sad conclusion. The pairing simply does not yield good enough results. This is when using the PanAm as both DAC and amp, though I highly doubt changing DACs will affect the outcome. 
  
 The HE500 comes out as shrill, piercing even. Bass is there, but in such a small quantity. Disappointing.
  
 Considering what others are driving the HE500 with, this comes as a foregone conclusion to some, but I had my "I can dream" hat on when pairing these two especially for on the go. Sadly, the PanAm could not give the HE500 what it needs to shine. At least it does very well with the other cans I have tried. 
  
 Time to resume the search for a mobile solution for the HE500.


----------



## Solitary1

nzheadcase said:


> Just sharing some thoughts and experiences on headphone pairings guys. Take this with the usual grain of salt.
> 
> The PanAm is not a good match for the HE500. (yes, yes, I know I should have known that even before I tried, but hey experiencing something for one's self is the best teacher, no?)
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, you're not the first heard complaining about the Pan Am not pairing well with HE500. I've heard the Burson and audio-gd amps paired well  with HE500.


----------



## NZheadcase

Yeah the Soloist does work very very well with the HE500s.


----------



## ahhui90

A little off topic but does anyone know how to get started with playing audio files on a tablet that feeds into the Pan Am via OTG/USB?
 Tried using Poweramp but it doesn't work.
  
 edit: android tablet btw


----------



## shigzeo

I've only used iPad and the stock music app. I've not used an Android tablet but there are heaps here who have. I assume you'll get some good advice soon.


----------



## jscivias

nzheadcase said:


> Just sharing some thoughts and experiences on headphone pairings guys. Take this with the usual grain of salt.
> 
> The PanAm is not a good match for the HE500. (yes, yes, I know I should have known that even before I tried, but hey experiencing something for one's self is the best teacher, no?)
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am having the same issue.. I have tried the russians, mullards, and siemens, and to my newbie audiophile ears they all sound a bit too harsh with my DT880s.. it reminds me of when I tried out DT990 pro and decided against those because of the offensive highs. others on this thread said the panam goes well with dt880s, so not sure if it's just me... I got the PanAm after trying out a friend's International with my DT880s and they sounded amazing..


----------



## badgerbimmer

have you properly burned in the tubes. i have all three of those tube sets and the each took a good 20 to 30 hours of burn-in before the mellowed out on the top end. I pair with the with LCD-2.


----------



## NZheadcase

jscivias said:


> I am having the same issue.. I have tried the russians, mullards, and siemens, and to my newbie audiophile ears they all sound a bit too harsh with my DT880s.. it reminds me of when I tried out DT990 pro and decided against those because of the offensive highs. others on this thread said the panam goes well with dt880s, so not sure if it's just me... I got the PanAm after trying out a friend's International with my DT880s and they sounded amazing..




I've not tried the DT series, so I cannot really comment. However I find the T1 to be very well driven by the PanAm using the Siemens tubes. That is currently my go to transportable pairing even more so than the LCD 2 PanAm pair. More because I really loathe taking the LCDs out of the house for obvious reasons. 

Try giving them a bit more time and let YOURself adjust to the pair. If by a week you've not found the best music for the pair and have not grasped the signature, then move on. However, with more time I bet you'd be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

jscivias said:


> I am having the same issue.. I have tried the russians, mullards, and siemens, and to my newbie audiophile ears they all sound a bit too harsh with my DT880s.. it reminds me of when I tried out DT990 pro and decided against those because of the offensive highs. others on this thread said the panam goes well with dt880s, so not sure if it's just me... I got the PanAm after trying out a friend's International with my DT880s and they sounded amazing..




So much depends on individual preference and type of music. I have the Voskhod Rockets loaded into the Pan Am at the moment and plugged in the DT880's. I'm listening to classical chamber music and baroque opera, and the highs are crisp, clean and detailed; the voices are very natural; not over-bright to my ears. While I prefer the warmer Mullards with these phones, the sound is quite good - again, to my ears. I am also using a slightly warm source - the HiFiMan HM-801, which may tone it down a little. That said, the DT880's are "bright-leaning" cans. Many people prefer "warm-leaning" headphones (like the LCD-2 or 3; Denons; Fostex; etc.). I like both presentations, but since I listen almost exclusively to classical, I tend to prefer the "brighter" headphones. I listen to both the Senn HD800's and the Audeze LCD-3's and love them both, but if I were forced to pick one, it would be the HD800.

Just as many people (if not more people) prefer a "warmer-leaning" presentation, and there's nothing at all wrong with that. If you're one of these folks, perhaps the DT880's may not be your endgame headphone.


----------



## jscivias

Thanks guys for the feedback. I tried using my iPod as an input rather than my laptop/USB, and I find the sound to be less harsh.. did I bypass the PanAm DAC by using the iPod?
  
 also, I'm currently using a cheap USB cable to connect my laptop to the PanAm, do you think that using higher end cables makes any difference? I thought that a USB cable is digital so it shouldn't really matter much.. eh, I don't know. 
  
 p.s.  I've also tried Westone 4 with the PanAm and I prefer this pairing more than the DT880, I guess my ears are just partial to the warmer sound.. although I really bought this to drive DT880. it's growing on me though, I like it much better than my first listen.


----------



## palchiu

My PassPort is near death, any suggest?
  
 Replace battery in PassPort or external power-pack.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## ahhui90

how long have you been using it?


----------



## palchiu

ahhui90 said:


> how long have you been using it?


 
  
 It since Sep. Last year, atleast used them five days a week.


----------



## ahhui90

palchiu said:


> It since Sep. Last year, atleast used them five days a week.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/626204/alo-pan-am-desktop-portable-headphone-amp-dac-impressions-and-reviews/270#post_9612036
  
 I might want to try this out.


----------



## palchiu

The battery is complete dead and removed, I'm looking for similar size can fit in the PassPort.
  
 Here's some pics if someone interested.
  

  

  

  
 PS: Battery still good. Only dead the battery protect board.


----------



## ahhui90

Wow that's interesting. I see 3 silver stacks of cells, so total capacity is 9000mAh I guess.
 Just for your info, I have bought and currently using anker battery pack I mentioned a few posts back, it works at a fraction of the price of Passport.
 Gonna try to make a short DC power supply interconnect, somewhat like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Short-DC-4-0x1-7-Male-Plug-Right-Angle-Cord-to-5-5x2-1-Male-Conversion-Cable/291020367884?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D19219%26meid%3D2899083644830518240%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D8681%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D300995072674%26


----------



## palchiu

It's series connecting config, 3X3.7V to 11.1V(3000mAh)
  
 506085 3.7V
  
 Maybe Optima Batteries will be a good option for PanAm.


----------



## NZheadcase

palchiu said:


> The battery is complete dead and removed, I'm looking for similar size can fit in the PassPort.
> 
> Here's some pics if someone interested.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you hit up Alo about a replacement protect board? I mean if the batteries are still good, it might pay to send an email their way.


----------



## palchiu

nzheadcase said:


> Have you hit up Alo about a replacement protect board? I mean if the batteries are still good, it might pay to send an email their way.


 

 They're out of warranty already. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'm not in US, shipment may let me get many boards to replace...


----------



## supersonic13

Hi Pan Am owners, I'm looking to get some feedback on a problem I've encountered. I picked up a Pan Am (with Passport battery) and some Sennheiser HD650s during Black Friday as my first real setup, but I've only gotten around to playing around with the two for an extended period of time tonight. The sound is amazing, but I've noticed an odd noise that occasionally occurs and I believe that it is caused by the Pan Am. My current setup is computer->USB->Pan Am->HD650s.
  
 Every once in awhile I hear an odd distortion/interference type noise, the best way I can describe it is usually a high pitched electronic sound (played through the headphone). The sound is not constant and the tone can vary slightly as it is occurring, it can also vary in volume and in duration. It happens intermittently and I have been unable to find anything in particular that causes it to happen, position of the volume knob seems to have no influence on it. I first noticed the noise when I had the HD650's on my head with the Pan Am on, but I wasn't playing any music at the time. Having heard that, I started paying closer attention as I was listening and found that it could also occur while a song is on. I think that the problem is coming from the Pan Am, as one time I was quick enough to take the USB cable out of the Pan Am while I heard the sound, yet the sound persisted for another 2-3 seconds without any connection to a source.
  
 I have plugged the HD650's directly into my computer, which can drive them to an extent (albeit poorly), and have never heard the same noise so I do not think that they are the problem. I do not sense any problems (a blown driver, etc.) while listening to music normally through the Pan Am when this sound is not being produced. The problem persists with both the stock tubes and the extra pair I purchased to mess around with and have tried switching both sets multiple times with no luck. Initially I thought it might be interference caused by my computer as they were very close together, so I moved them about a foot apart and still have the same problem. Should I attempt to space them out even further? Has anyone had problems with a Pan Am and electronic interference? Has anyone had any kind of similar problem or have an idea what might be the cause? I would appreciate any help, thanks in advance.
  
 Edit: The same problem occurred when I experimented with my HD25's and the Pan Am, so I'd say that completely eliminates the HD650's as the problem.


----------



## GarySaville

Do you have the caps covering the tubes? I suggest you use them. With my setup, the PanAm is quite susceptible to EMI fields since it is close to my computer and various electronics on my desk. However, unplugging it during use and leaving the covers over the tubes helps reduce, if not completely eliminate, buzzing EMI type interference.


----------



## supersonic13

garysaville said:


> Do you have the caps covering the tubes? I suggest you use them. With my setup, the PanAm is quite susceptible to EMI fields since it is close to my computer and various electronics on my desk. However, unplugging it during use and leaving the covers over the tubes helps reduce, if not completely eliminate, buzzing EMI type interference.


 

 Good call, I was not using the tube covers earlier. I now have the covers on the Pan Am, but unfortunately the problem persists. This seems to have reduced the frequency of the distortion/interference a little bit, but it still happens approximately once every 15 minutes or so. It was a good idea though and I think it has likely narrowed down the issue to electronic interference. Out of curiosity, do you happen to know if EMI has a greater effect on tube amps than solid states?
  
 I may attempt to rearrange my desk tomorrow in the hopes that adding a little more distance between the Pan Am and my computer will further mitigate the problem, but the distance will probably only be about 2 feet max and I'm not sure that will be enough to eliminate the problem. Did you end up trying anything else to help reduce your own problem? Any other ideas on things I can do to mitigate the problem? Again, I really appreciate the help.


----------



## GarySaville

supersonic13 said:


> Good call, I was not using the tube covers earlier. I now have the covers on the Pan Am, but unfortunately the problem persists. This seems to have reduced the frequency of the distortion/interference a little bit, but it still happens approximately once every 15 minutes or so. It was a good idea though and I think it has likely narrowed down the issue to electronic interference. Out of curiosity, do you happen to know if EMI has a greater effect on tube amps than solid states?
> 
> I may attempt to rearrange my desk tomorrow in the hopes that adding a little more distance between the Pan Am and my computer will further mitigate the problem, but the distance will probably only be about 2 feet max and I'm not sure that will be enough to eliminate the problem. Did you end up trying anything else to help reduce your own problem? Any other ideas on things I can do to mitigate the problem? Again, I really appreciate the help.


 
 When I first got the PanAm, I did have issues with interference. But, now I do not, and I'm not sure what exactly fixed my issues since my desk is a complete disaster. I have DJ equipment, studio monitors, iPads, an iPod, iPhone, and midi gear surrounding me which all likely contribute to noise. What I have changed, is adding an iFi iUSB, as well as higher quality (more shielded) USB cables throughout my rig, and I shifted gear around until I found a sweet-spot for the PanAm. I also used to have a wireless router on my desk, and I switched to a wired router. 
 Unfortunately, most of these changes happened slowly over the past year or so, and I'm not sure exactly when the interference disappeared. The same noise would also warble out of my KRK V4 studio monitors, but it does not occur anymore.
 I would guess that wireless tech would be the most likely culprit, so the heavy data-flow from wireless internet would be the first thing I would look into. Then check out beefier USB cables. I'm not recommending ridiculously expensive audiophile USB cables, just cables with heavier insulation.


----------



## NZheadcase

supersonic13 said:


> Hi Pan Am owners, I'm looking to get some feedback on a problem I've encountered. I picked up a Pan Am (with Passport battery) and some Sennheiser HD650s during Black Friday as my first real setup, but I've only gotten around to playing around with the two for an extended period of time tonight. The sound is amazing, but I've noticed an odd noise that occasionally occurs and I believe that it is caused by the Pan Am. My current setup is computer->USB->Pan Am->HD650s.
> 
> Every once in awhile I hear an odd distortion/interference type noise, the best way I can describe it is *usually a high pitched electronic sound* (played through the headphone). The sound is not constant and the tone can vary slightly as it is occurring, it can also vary in volume and in duration. It happens intermittently and I have been unable to find anything in particular that causes it to happen, position of the volume knob seems to have no influence on it.


 
  
 This happens to me occasionally on the Macbook when using the PanAm USB cable that shipped with the PanAm. I replaced it with a cheapie USB and away it went. When using my Sony VAIO PC though, the PanAm USB cable has never made that noise. I also found that the PanAm sometimes won't get recognized by the Mac when using the PanAm USB cable. Weird, I know, but try swapping the cable.
  
 Also, please try the following: 
  
 1. Check to see if any of the other inputs give you the same issue. 
 2. If you use the wall wart, try a different wall socket.
 3. If you have either the Passport try it on battery power only, and not plugged into the wall wart.
 4. Try a different set of tubes. 
  
 Good luck on the troubleshooting.


----------



## supersonic13

I really appreciate the ideas guys, I did the following today:
  
 1. Rearranged my desk and moved the Pan Am about 2 feet from my computer
 2. Took extra care to route my USB cable away from other electronics and their power supplies
 3. Switched USB ports on my computer
 4. Added the tube covers
 5. Unplugged the Passport from charging while in use (I feel like I had tried this earlier, so I'm not sure if this is actually helping)
  
 Some combination of the above seems to have significantly reduced the problem, unfortunately I did all of the above at once so I can't say which of them helped the most. I think I may have heard the sound once today thus far (again with no music playing), but it was much lower in volume and pitch and also much shorter in duration. It is definitely a large improvement over last night, when it was much louder and occurred frequently, so I think I can live with things as they are now. All I can say is I've learned an important lesson: Never underestimate the impact of electronic interference from other devices.
  
 Now time to relax and really enjoy the HD650's.


----------



## koolas

A question: Is there any benefit of having Gateway if you have Passport? Will Passport charge quicker? If Passport is plugged to kit charger (small one) do you hear anything worrying in sound?


----------



## koolas

I have created my own USB cable. It's four twisted stranded wires each in isolation. It has around 20cm length. Before I used cable from Lexmark (printer) and with my custom cable I see significant improvement of SQ. Probably jitter was significantly reduced. 



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



So if you are brave enough and you are not afraid of burning your laptop, I would encourage you to build your own USB cable. However be aware that by doing so you may destroy your laptop and if that happens I am not responsible for that 

If you're still interested then what you need is four wires in four colors and two plugs one of type A and one of type B, and to connect their pins. To see which pins see this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Pinouts. You will also need good soldering skills, because you must ensure there is no short between pins.


----------



## Currawong

palchiu said:


> My PassPort is near death, any suggest?
> 
> Replace battery in PassPort or external power-pack.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 Have you tried contacting ALO to see if they can't do something for you?


----------



## BoxerOrBag

I just got the Pan Am with Passport last night, nifty little toy
  
 Quote:


koolas said:


> I have created my own USB cable. It's four twisted stranded wires each in isolation. It has around 20cm length. Before I used cable from Lexmark (printer) and with my custom cable I see significant improvement of SQ. Probably jitter was significantly reduced.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 1) in all my years of using USB to transfer data, not one byte was ever lost
 2) in most modern DACs, the USB transfer is async, afaik, that means the timing is control by the DAC
  
 base on the above points, where no information is lost and timing doesnt matter, I'm wondering how there could be sonic differences in functional USB cables.
  
  


koolas said:


> A question: Is there any benefit of having Gateway if you have Passport? Will Passport charge quicker? If Passport is plugged to kit charger (small one) do you hear anything worrying in sound?


 
  
 why don't you try using the 1) Pan Am with wall wart, 2) Pan Am with just the Passport and no wall wart attached, 3) Pan Am with Passport and wall wart attached. And draw your own conclusions. I regret not getting a Gateway myself


----------



## R Scott Ireland

koolas said:


> A question: Is there any benefit of having Gateway if you have Passport? Will Passport charge quicker? If Passport is plugged to kit charger (small one) do you hear anything worrying in sound?




I often recharge the Passport with the wall charger while still playing music, and I've not had any issues with the sound.


----------



## BattousaiX26

Anyone with experience on RCA 6ak5w with pan am?


----------



## NZheadcase

Got my hands on an Apple 30-pin CCK with an iPad two. Testing out if it can hook up directly with the PanAm.
  
 So far no go. Running the latest firmware; tried the passport and the gateway. Both no go. iPad is saying the PanAm user too much power. I seem to remember someone saying it works. Has anyone been successful at doing this? Is a jailbreak necessary as well as a specific app? 
  
 I got it to work with no problems on a Sony Xperia Z Tablet. Sucks if there's no way to do it on an iPad though.


----------



## NZheadcase

Bummed that it's not working. I thought with that latest update, that the compatibility would be better. The PanAm is self-powered, so I don't know why it's not working. The Bifrost works just fine. Oh well, you live, you learn.


----------



## koolas

I was able to feed Pan Am USB from Nokia N900 using OTG adapter and H-E-N package. Must say this combo gave best SQ compared with USB in my laptop, and my desktop and desktop in the office. Probably because N900 is powered by battery, it runs on ARM A8 and OS is more real time. I thought connecting iPad or iPhone would be a piece of cake though... BTW N900 sells ~$200 and has 32GB memory, and works perfectly without SIM.


----------



## NZheadcase

Good on yah koolas.
  
 Yeah I thought it would be straightforward as well. Shigzeo mentioned he has an iPad first gen and it works for him. 
  
 I can use the iPhone and iPad with the 3.5mm line in on the PanAm, and it works ok. I just wanted to use the USB to squeeze the last bit of performance from the iOS > PanAm chain. It's back to the 'ol drawing board for me for now.


----------



## shigzeo

nzheadcase said:


> Bummed that it's not working. I thought with that latest update, that the compatibility would be better. The PanAm is self-powered, so I don't know why it's not working. The Bifrost works just fine. Oh well, you live, you learn.


 
 It's not the self-powered bit that matters, it's how much electricity it takes to run its DAC. I have used a LOT of battery-powered DACs, even from very small amp/DAC units that simply won't work from iPads. Then, there is the Pan Am, which works from an iPad 1 and iOS 5 or 6. It would be great if the USB port would get more power again with a firmware update. That is possible. But if Apple aren't made aware of it, the hope will fall on deaf ears.


----------



## NZheadcase

shigzeo said:


> It's not the self-powered bit that matters, it's how much electricity it takes to run its DAC. I have used a LOT of battery-powered DACs, even from very small amp/DAC units that simply won't work from iPads. Then, there is the Pan Am, which works from an iPad 1 and iOS 5 or 6. It would be great if the USB port would get more power again with a firmware update. That is possible. But if Apple aren't made aware of it, the hope will fall on deaf ears.



 


Yeah, I realised as much. Lesson learnt. Focusing on finding an alternative solution now. I really don't want my solution to be - sell the PanAm and get something else. I like this amp. 

Will try a powered USB hub. Failing that, I might try that new iFi dac/amp or a microstreamer.


----------



## NZheadcase

Two cans I like on the PanAm. Very satisfying.


----------



## BattousaiX26

nzheadcase said:


> Two cans I like on the PanAm. Very satisfying.


 
 Wow! I want that beyer too! Btw did pan am tame highs of T1? Do you think it has less sibilance now?


----------



## NZheadcase

The voshkods did, a little bit. The T1 also sufferred a bit of loss in detail and soundstage, but as it has lots of that already, losing a bit on a mobile setup is not a bad compromise. 

I don't really mind a bit of sibilance. It does not bother me with majority of the music I listen to. If I encounter bothersome levels of sibilance in the vocals of, say a female vocalist, I just grab the HE500. Best damn can for vocals that I've heard.


----------



## BoxerOrBag

just got a bunch of tubes in today, just like to reiterate that the mullards are really nice (without burn in). out of the 3 tubes I've tried: stock, siemens and these mullards. Mullards are definitely my fav.
  
 the siemens took a loooong time to burn in. In order to make sure that it wasnt my brain that was burned in, I checked at 0 hr, 1, 2, 5, 10, 20+. and it wasnt until the last check that I was comfortable with the tubes. But they are an upgrade over stock tubes.
  
 this is a fun toy.


----------



## koolas

boxerorbag said:


> just got a bunch of tubes in today, just like to reiterate that the mullards are really nice (without burn in). out of the 3 tubes I've tried: stock, siemens and these mullards. Mullards are definitely my fav.
> 
> the siemens took a loooong time to burn in. In order to make sure that it wasnt my brain that was burned in, I checked at 0 hr, 1, 2, 5, 10, 20+. and it wasnt until the last check that I was comfortable with the tubes. But they are an upgrade over stock tubes.
> 
> this is a fun toy.




Which model of Mullards exactly?


----------



## koolas

I have a question. Since DAC in Pan Am is rather average at least when compared to my NAD, I would like to find some DAC that would be about the size of Pan Am, and possibly not more expensive, but way more detailed and way more analog, because DAC in Pan Am sounds digital to me. I was thinking about either Dragonfly or one of the HRT streamers, but to be honest I wouldn't know which to choose. Basically I'm looking for something less than $500. Also would be cool if it was powered from battery, and even better if it could be powered from Passport - Is that possible? So I'm waiting for your suggestions guys.


----------



## BoxerOrBag

koolas said:


> Which model of Mullards exactly?


 
  
 the box they came in is blank, how can I tell? thanks!! (still buying tubes even though I'm going to get another tube amp, never getting rid of this toy)
  
  


koolas said:


> I have a question. Since DAC in Pan Am is rather average at least when compared to my NAD, I would like to find some DAC that would be about the size of Pan Am, and possibly not more expensive, but way more detailed and way more analog, because DAC in Pan Am sounds digital to me. I was thinking about either Dragonfly or one of the HRT streamers, but to be honest I wouldn't know which to choose. Basically I'm looking for something less than $500. Also would be cool if it was powered from battery, and even better if it could be powered from Passport - Is that possible? So I'm waiting for your suggestions guys.


 
  
 I am not a DAC expert (I didnt even try the DAC in Pan Am), but if you want something portable, at around 350 there is the Resonessence Herus. I really enjoy using that DAC and it is a clear upgrade over the Dragonfly, plus other than 384, it plays all the bit rate including DSD. But that is a really competitive category and I'm in no position to recommend any products because I simply have not sample a large enough range of products at this category to comment. This DAC can be used from an iphone or ipad through the CCK though I dont recommend it due to the fact that it drains my iphone 5's battery at a rate of 1% every 3 minutes or so. This is not really a recommendation, but if you want to consider this product, go check out the Herus thread.


----------



## koolas

I first hear about Herus Since you use it how would you describe it's sound?


----------



## BoxerOrBag

koolas said:


> I first hear about Herus Since you use it how would you describe it's sound?


 

 describing the sound of a DAC is a challenge for me. So all I can do is offer some comparisons. The most neutral DACs I've heard are the Fostex DACs: HP-A8 and HP-P1, compare to them, I would say the Herus have a slight touch of warmth to it. In my brief time comparing my Dragonfly to the Herus, the Herus is more detailed and "comfortable" (I get tired listening to the Dragonfly after a while). The main DAC that I use is a Concero HD, and the Herus sound really similar to that (I'm guessing that's the Resonessence house tuning). All I can say is, if you are considering this DAC, go through the Invicta, Concero and Herus thread, you'll get an idea of the Resonessence house sound and how people feel about it. If you want more info, Innerfidelity did put this product on its holiday gift guide, and you can always ask the writer (project86 on this forum) how he feels about the DAC.
  
 Again, not a recommendation, I'm totally not qualified.


----------



## NZheadcase

Currently enjoying the PanAm with the T1 here at work. Makes working a Saturday shift bearable. 
  
 I've also taken the plunge for a Centrance HiFi M8. They have a crazy 30% discount on all products at the moment. Check out their Facebook page for details. Going to make a comparison between M8 and PanAm once received. Won't be until next year though.


----------



## koolas

boxerorbag said:


> describing the sound of a DAC is a challenge for me. So all I can do is offer some comparisons. The most neutral DACs I've heard are the Fostex DACs: HP-A8 and HP-P1, compare to them, I would say the Herus have a slight touch of warmth to it. In my brief time comparing my Dragonfly to the Herus, the Herus is more detailed and "comfortable" (I get tired listening to the Dragonfly after a while). The main DAC that I use is a Concero HD, and the Herus sound really similar to that (I'm guessing that's the Resonessence house tuning). All I can say is, if you are considering this DAC, go through the Invicta, Concero and Herus thread, you'll get an idea of the Resonessence house sound and how people feel about it. If you want more info, Innerfidelity did put this product on its holiday gift guide, and you can always ask the writer (project86 on this forum) how he feels about the DAC.
> 
> Again, not a recommendation, I'm totally not qualified.




Yeah, I was thinking about Concero HD a while ago. The website says it uses Sabre DAC  Did you try it with Pan Am? If so how would you describe what you hear?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

koolas said:


> Yeah, I was thinking about Concero HD a while ago. The website says it uses Sabre DAC  Did you try it with Pan Am? If so how would you describe what you hear?




I can't speak to the standalone DAC's, but I feed the line out from my DX100 (SABRE ES9018) into the Pan Am regularly, and it sounds excellent.


----------



## DMOS

I've got the Pan Am working with all my iDevices now.  Pretty neat transportable setup to take with me on the road (once my passport arrives).  Now I don't even really need to bring my laptop if I can smartly add the right selection of tracks prior to departure.  
  
 iPad/iPhone -> Lightning CCK -> SIIG 4 port USB Hub -> Pan Am DAC -> Alessandro MS1 / Etymotic HF3
  
 After burning in over a day, the stock tubes have settled nicely (no more pain on cymbals or "s" or "ch" vocals).  Really enjoying all of my music again!


----------



## DMOS

boxerorbag said:


> just got a bunch of tubes in today, just like to reiterate that the mullards are really nice (without burn in). out of the 3 tubes I've tried: stock, siemens and these mullards. Mullards are definitely my fav.


 
 Once I find a set that I like, should I buy a bunch and hoard them?  Or are you feeling comfortable that you'll be able to replace them when needed every few years through the wonders of the internet?  Mullards should arrive here early in the new year.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

dmos said:


> Once I find a set that I like, should I buy a bunch and hoard them?  Or are you feeling comfortable that you'll be able to replace them when needed every few years through the wonders of the internet?  Mullards should arrive here early in the new year.




I bought a bunch of the Mullards and hoarded them 

It's not like they will go bad or anything, and the pricing was good.


----------



## BoxerOrBag

> Yeah, I was thinking about Concero HD a while ago. The website says it uses Sabre DAC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Most of the time, I use the Pan Am with my HP-P1 for convenience, but whenever I hook it up to the Concero HD with my ATH-3000anv headphone, I feel like I'm in heaven (I have other amps, an HP-A8 and a Pico slim, I love them and they are both technically superior to the Pan Am, but for the last while, all I've been doing is using the Pan Am). Keep in mind, I think taste is personal, and you may not like what I like.


----------



## BoxerOrBag

dmos said:


> Once I find a set that I like, should I buy a bunch and hoard them?  Or are you feeling comfortable that you'll be able to replace them when needed every few years through the wonders of the internet?  Mullards should arrive here early in the new year.


 
  
 I was told by an electronics store that I went to that none of these tubes are being manufactured. I have no idea how much stock anyone have left. But keep in mind that ALO ran out of stock of some of the tubes they use to stock already. hope this helps


----------



## BoxerOrBag

some notes on a few tubes (I only got a few hours each on these):
  
 -I got these tubes labeled AEG, but the seller says it's *Telefunken*. I guess they must be real cause they are awesome. great general all round tube, highlights are the soundstage and the treble. If you get more than 1 set of tubes, these should be on your list
  
 - JAN Phillips and JAN GE, in a brief audition, they sound similar, and for a less tubey sound, these are great general tubes. Nice contrast to the tubey Mullards.
  
 - Raytheon, great vocals, I really didnt like these otherwise.
  
 -I also got some no label GE 6AK5 tubes from a local electronics stores. they sounded crazy (bad) and when I tried to remove them from the amp, my fingers were slightly burned...
  
 other than that, I'm still awaiting the Russians, Sylvania, and Tung sol. Unless they are spectacular, I think thats about all im going to say about this. happy rolling...


----------



## BoxerOrBag

just got these Sylvania JAN tubes in, burned them in for a few hours, and been listening for a little while. Very sweet sounding without being slow, very punchy bass (I hate heavy bass but these are great). Great for rock music. Definitely in my top three. Highly recommended. I just failed to get more from the same seller, there are only a few options left on ebay, best of luck.


----------



## viggen

I am teetering between the battery and AC psu.  I read the consensus is the battery psu sounds better.
  
 Just wondering two things:
  
 1) For those with the Gateway, any experience "rolling" power cords? 
  
 2) Any one thought about upgrading PSU with third party alternative such as Paul Hynes or whoever else made psu such as from those vendors who offered "wall wart killers" for Squeezebox?
  
 I am just trying to get the best sound quality but want to avoid the battery.


----------



## koolas

The battery serves as extremely huge capacitor, so you can plug charger to it, and any noise from it won't get through battery to amp. I know that it is not 100% true, but I haven't heard much difference between w/ and w/o charger, so maybe like 99% true? I've read review where guy was saying that Pan Am sounds great with Gateway, but he then said when he switched to Passport sound became even better.


----------



## viggen

koolas said:


> The battery serves as extremely huge capacitor, so you can plug charger to it, and any noise from it won't get through battery to amp. I know that it is not 100% true, but I haven't heard much difference between w/ and w/o charger, so maybe like 99% true? I've read review where guy was saying that Pan Am sounds great with Gateway, but he then said when he switched to Passport sound became even better.


 
 I am just wondering whether people are comparing their gateways with (regular ole) PC power cord plugged into the gateway's iec inlet when comparing it to passport. 
  
 Well, I pulled the trigger on the pan am with gateway.  I won't have a passport to compare with though.


----------



## BattousaiX26

Hi guys! Did anyone of you tried connecting gateway into passport and if you did is there any improvement in sound? Thanks in advance


----------



## NZheadcase

battousaix26 said:


> Hi guys! Did anyone of you tried connecting gateway into passport and if you did is there any improvement in sound? Thanks in advance


 
  
 Personally I detected no change whatsoever. If you plug the Gateway-->Passport-->PanAm, it is exactly like plugging Wallwart-->passport-->PanAm. The PanAm is essentially still running out of the Passport. 
  
 The main difference - where it is sonically relevant - is wallwart-->PanAm vs Gateway-->PanAm. The Gateway definitely is a step up over the wallwart. You get a blacker background, no hum (i hear a slight hum with the wallwart), an an overall more lively sq. 
  
 I hear no difference when using either Passport or Gateway as the power source. Of course others may have a different experience. I think the case for buying the Gateway will be if you:
  
 1. Want to run the PanAm for more than a few hours at a time
 2. Use the PanAm as a predominantly desktop-based amp
 3. Extend the life of your Passport by using the Gateway as much as possible
  
 BTW, the three stack looks uber cool. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hope this helps.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

nzheadcase said:


> Personally I detected no change whatsoever. If you plug the Gateway-->Passport-->PanAm, it is exactly like plugging Wallwart-->passport-->PanAm. The PanAm is essentially still running out of the Passport.
> 
> The main difference - where it is sonically relevant - is wallwart-->PanAm vs Gateway-->PanAm. The Gateway definitely is a step up over the wallwart. You get a blacker background, no hum (i hear a slight hum with the wallwart), an an overall more lively sq.
> 
> ...




I use the Passport, and if it runs low, it is no problem continuing to listen with the Wallwart plugged into the Passport. I don't detect any difference in sound.


----------



## NZheadcase

r scott ireland said:


> I use the Passport, and if it runs low, it is no problem continuing to listen with the Wallwart plugged into the Passport. I don't detect any difference in sound.


 
  
 Yeah same. I only hear a difference when plugging the wallwart straight to the PanAm. To qualify that, I can only hear the slight hum on IEMs and the T1. I cannot hear it on planars.


----------



## BattousaiX26

nzheadcase said:


> Personally I detected no change whatsoever. If you plug the Gateway-->Passport-->PanAm, it is exactly like plugging Wallwart-->passport-->PanAm. The PanAm is essentially still running out of the Passport.
> 
> The main difference - where it is sonically relevant - is wallwart-->PanAm vs Gateway-->PanAm. The Gateway definitely is a step up over the wallwart. You get a blacker background, no hum (i hear a slight hum with the wallwart), an an overall more lively sq.
> 
> ...


 
  


nzheadcase said:


> Personally I detected no change whatsoever. If you plug the Gateway-->Passport-->PanAm, it is exactly like plugging Wallwart-->passport-->PanAm. The PanAm is essentially still running out of the Passport.
> 
> The main difference - where it is sonically relevant - is wallwart-->PanAm vs Gateway-->PanAm. The Gateway definitely is a step up over the wallwart. You get a blacker background, no hum (i hear a slight hum with the wallwart), an an overall more lively sq.
> 
> ...


 
 I see... Thank you very much sir this had helped me save my wallet )


----------



## BattousaiX26

r scott ireland said:


> I use the Passport, and if it runs low, it is no problem continuing to listen with the Wallwart plugged into the Passport. I don't detect any difference in sound.


 
 Thanks for the input sir!


----------



## viggen

For those with gateways, you hear any difference with different powercords?
  
 Also, how many of you are bypassing the internal dac?  Just wondering what your experiences are. what dac you are using instead, and what the improvements are over the internal dac. 
  
 I've been thinking about upgrading my dac but wonder whether it's necessary.  Cuinas and Young looks good.  Cuinas seems to be the flavor of the year though.


----------



## BattousaiX26

viggen said:


> For those with gateways, you hear any difference with different powercords?
> 
> Also, how many of you are bypassing the internal dac?  Just wondering what your experiences are. what dac you are using instead, and what the improvements are over the internal dac.
> 
> I've been thinking about upgrading my dac but wonder whether it's necessary.  Cuinas and Young looks good.  Cuinas seems to be the flavor of the year though.


 
 I am also interested in this as well. I have been planning on getting CLAS DB sa DAC but not sure if it is worth upgrading


----------



## BattousaiX26

Btw just want to ask guys here with experience on both beyer t1 and senn hd800 with the pan am, do pan am able to tame treble of those cans?


----------



## 62ohm

battousaix26 said:


> Btw just want to ask guys here with experience on both beyer t1 and senn hd800 with the pan am, do pan am able to tame treble of those cans?


 
  
 +1 on this, just about to ask the same thing. How does the Pan Am compares to say, Graham Slee Solo SRG-II on driving HD800 / T1?


----------



## mentt

62ohm said:


> +1 on this, just about to ask the same thing. How does the Pan Am compares to say, Graham Slee Solo SRG-II on driving HD800 / T1?


 
 unfortunately no, Pan Am is not good match for T1, tried 4 different tubes but still not satisfying sound. End up buying CORDA CLASSIC for T1. For my surprise CLASSIC was also better match for LCD2.


----------



## NZheadcase

I have not heard the Corda Classic or Graham Slee Solo, but really I have no complaints with the PanAm driving the T1, TH900, and LCD 2.2. Hopefully I can broaden my horizons when it comes to amp pairing with these cans. 
  
 In saying that, they are satisfying enough for me when I move down from my main rigs to the PanAm with all the cans mentioned above. I actually prefer (maybe more a matter of musical tastes and sound sig preference?) the PanAm>T1, PanAm>TH900 to the Lyr. The Lyr I prefer on the Planars more. 
  
 With the *T1 PanAm combination vs the NAD M51>Soloist>T1 combination*, here are the pros and cons as I perceive them:
  
*PROS:*
 - Transportable
 - Sufficient power compared to direct from iDevice/Android as DAP
 - Can change sound sig using tubes.
 - Very good sound quality
 - Multiple inputs allow for flexibility
 - Sounds good even with just iDevice as input (Line level output)
  
*CONS:*
 - Less soundstage compared to full desktop setup. It does not sound closed-in but it's not as wide either.
 - Less detail
 - Bass loses a bit of oomph
 - Bass quality degrades just a tad
  
*Other points to consider:*
 - With a better DAC, the sound improves noticeably. This is not a leaps-and-bounds increase, but it is noticeable. If you have a better DAC already, hook it up via the RCA in. If you don't have a better DAC already lying around, I don't think you should spring for a better one. Save up for a better system overall. 
 - The battery could have been a bit better for the price. Mine is a year old, and already the battery life is noticeably degrading. 
  
 Some time next year, I will do a head-to-head comparison with the CEntrance HiFi-M8. Not sure when I'll get it, but they are supposed to ship in early march. The M8 was my main target last year, but decided to wait until it was actually in product. I got the PanAm instead. I have now ordered the M8. A head to head should be interesting.


----------



## BattousaiX26

nzheadcase said:


> I have not heard the Corda Classic or Graham Slee Solo, but really I have no complaints with the PanAm driving the T1, TH900, and LCD 2.2. Hopefully I can broaden my horizons when it comes to amp pairing with these cans.
> 
> In saying that, they are satisfying enough for me when I move down from my main rigs to the PanAm with all the cans mentioned above. I actually prefer (maybe more a matter of musical tastes and sound sig preference?) the PanAm>T1, PanAm>TH900 to the Lyr. The Lyr I prefer on the Planars more.
> 
> ...


 
 Have you tried mullard tubes with the pan and t1 or what tube have you tried that tame the t1's treble?


----------



## BattousaiX26

mentt said:


> unfortunately no, Pan Am is not good match for T1, tried 4 different tubes but still not satisfying sound. End up buying CORDA CLASSIC for T1. For my surprise CLASSIC was also better match for LCD2.


 
 what tubes have you tried with it sir?


----------



## NZheadcase

battousaix26 said:


> Have you tried mullard tubes with the pan and t1 or what tube have you tried that tame the t1's treble?




I've tried the stock, the russian tubes, and the siemens tubes from alo direct.

The Siemens are hands down my favourite for the TH900 and T1. The russian tubes (voshkods, if I recall correctly) are nice with the T1 too. I have not tried any other tubes, unfortunately. 

To be honest I'm not bothered by the T1's treble. I quite enjoy the T1's signature, top to bottom.


----------



## mentt

battousaix26 said:


> what tubes have you tried with it sir?


 
 Voshkods=harsh , Mullards=harsh but not as much as Voshkods, Stock Chines= almost like Voshkods, but less soundstage and less resolution, Siemens= not as harsh as other tubes, but bass is not as present and there for sound is not as musical.   Beyerdynamic A20 and CORDA CLASSIC AMPs are better match. These I can recommend .


----------



## R Scott Ireland

battousaix26 said:


> Btw just want to ask guys here with experience on both beyer t1 and senn hd800 with the pan am, do pan am able to tame treble of those cans?




I am very happy with the HD800 on the Pan Am. I'm currently using it with Telefunken 6AK5W tubes, and it sounds excellent. It was also terrific with Russian 6J1P-EV tubes. Can't speak to the T1's, but DT880's sound good with Mullards, Cifte's and the Russian tubes.


----------



## koolas

r scott ireland said:


> I use the Passport, and if it runs low, it is no problem continuing to listen with the Wallwart plugged into the Passport. I don't detect any difference in sound.




Mainly I do the same however I know that the lower the battery the lower the max output level before distortion.
That mean when Passport is full you can amp Alpha Dogs to deafening levels before you hear any distortion, but once battery gets low you hear distortion even at comfortable listening levels.
The Passport acts are huge capacitor, so this also means that there is some minimal portion of interference if you connect wallwart to it, and maybe with sensitive headphones you can hear it.
I personally never heard anything, but it is possible in theory. 

To avoid distortion you need to ensure that Passport always charged at high level. You can use wallwart, but it gets warm very quickly, so it's probably not very efficient transformer.
Also when you listen at louder volumes Passport may get discharged faster than charged when wallwart is being used as its charger. I wonder what is Gateway's performance though.
Should I assume that Gateway is much more efficient transformer and more powerful?


----------



## BattousaiX26

r scott ireland said:


> I am very happy with the HD800 on the Pan Am. I'm currently using it with Telefunken 6AK5W tubes, and it sounds excellent. It was also terrific with Russian 6J1P-EV tubes. Can't speak to the T1's, but DT880's sound good with Mullards, Cifte's and the Russian tubes.


 
 How does the telefunken sounds with hd800 and also what is the nature of telefunken tubes?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

koolas said:


> Mainly I do the same however I know that the lower the battery the lower the max output level before distortion.
> That mean when Passport is full you can amp Alpha Dogs to deafening levels before you hear any distortion, but once battery gets low you hear distortion even at comfortable listening levels.
> The Passport acts are huge capacitor, so this also means that there is some minimal portion of interference if you connect wallwart to it, and maybe with sensitive headphones you can hear it.
> I personally never heard anything, but it is possible in theory.
> ...




That's interesting. However, I've never experienced distortion when the Passport runs down. Just about 3 seconds of gentle volume reduction to 0. This is with HD800, LCD-3 and various other phones.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

battousaix26 said:


> How does the telefunken sounds with hd800 and also what is the nature of telefunken tubes?




For lack of a better term, I find the Telefunkens to be "neutral" across all frequencies. They are not for bass-heads - the lows are there, but not in abundance.
I like treble presence/brightness (I listen to Classical). But the Telefunkens deliver very smooth/even mids and highs. The LCD-3 sounds as good with these as just about any other combo I've tried - on any amp. I find the LCD-3 to be very amp/tube picky; they sound wonderful on the Pan Am with these tubes. The HD800's also sound very good, although there are other amp/tube combos that I prefer, mostly due to a slightly larger soundstage (not huge with the Telefunkens, although quite good).


----------



## NZheadcase

r scott ireland said:


> That's interesting. However, I've never experienced distortion when the Passport runs down. Just about 3 seconds of gentle volume reduction to 0. This is with HD800, LCD-3 and various other phones.




My experience mirrors yours, scott.

No noticeable distortion even with the T1 or TH900. I listen with quite a low volume too. With the PanAm, you need a gentle touch on the pot as moving it just a tad increases the volume drastically.

The amp does get hotter with the gateway, but not Lyr hot. Whether that means its more powerful than passport, I don't know. Have not noticed a difference, sonically betrween the two.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

nzheadcase said:


> The amp does get hotter with the gateway, but not Lyr hot. Whether that means its more powerful than passport, I don't know. Have not noticed a difference, sonically betrween the two.




Good to know NZ. I was thinking of getting a Gateway, but when the Passport runs low, I just plug it in and keep listening - no change in sound quality. I always use it semi-portably (AC always available however); I guess the Passport is all I really need.


----------



## koolas

On most records there is more distortion on the track than added by Pan Am, so it's hard to judge where the distortion come from. I can hear distortion even on some well mastered tracks from HDTracks.


----------



## viggen

Just received it today.  So much smaller than my Greatech muVac. 
  
 Can't wait to listen to it.  Now trying to get the computer to recognize the USB connection.  It's supposed to be plug and play, right?
  

  
 Got it working.  Got a different USB cord and plugging it into my win8 tablet now and sounds great.  I think I might have damaged the first USB cord when trying to plug it into the Pan Am.  The fit is a bit tight.


----------



## BattousaiX26

viggen said:


> Just received it today.  So much smaller than my Greatech muVac.
> 
> Can't wait to listen to it.  Now trying to get the computer to recognize the USB connection.  It's supposed to be plug and play, right?
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats! Nice headphones too!


----------



## viggen

battousaix26 said:


> Congrats! Nice headphones too!


 
 Thanks!  Just to answer my own question earlier, the dac on the pan am seems to be the unit's bottleneck.  But, that's with only 24 hours of burn in.  My ancient Audio Sector dac and my newish Audioengine D3 both made the Pan am sound better when using analog inputs into the pan than when using the USB input. 
  
 Pan Am is connected to Gateway with Moon Audio Blue Dragon powercord hooked into it.  Currently, even when using analog inputs, pan am is still not as good as the muVac.  Might have to invest in some tubes suggested on this thread in order to get the most of out of the amp.


----------



## themad

viggen said:


> Thanks!  Just to answer my own question earlier, the dac on the pan am seems to be the unit's bottleneck.  But, that's with only 24 hours of burn in.  My ancient Audio Sector dac and my newish Audioengine D3 both made the Pan am sound better when using analog inputs into the pan than when using the USB input.
> 
> Pan Am is connected to Gateway with Moon Audio Blue Dragon powercord hooked into it.  Currently, even when using analog inputs, pan am is still not as good as the muVac.  Might have to invest in some tubes suggested on this thread in order to get the most of out of the amp.




I am still waiting for my PanAm+Passport to arrive but I'm already interested in tube rolling.

So, here, let me help you with 2 articles you might be interested. If you haven't checked them out yet...

http://headfonics.com/2012/10/alo-audio-the-pan-am/
http://www.headfonia.com/high-octane-fuel-for-the-pan-am-a-tube-rollers-notes/

Let us know your impressions afterwards


----------



## BattousaiX26

themad said:


> I am still waiting for my PanAm+Passport to arrive but I'm already interested in tube rolling.
> 
> So, here, let me help you with 2 articles you might be interested. If you haven't checked them out yet...
> 
> ...


 
 I currently have mullards on the way and waiting for the local store to stock siemens and russian from alo  I'll post impression when they arrive


----------



## BattousaiX26

viggen said:


> Thanks!  Just to answer my own question earlier, the dac on the pan am seems to be the unit's bottleneck.  But, that's with only 24 hours of burn in.  My ancient Audio Sector dac and my newish Audioengine D3 both made the Pan am sound better when using analog inputs into the pan than when using the USB input.
> 
> Pan Am is connected to Gateway with Moon Audio Blue Dragon powercord hooked into it.  Currently, even when using analog inputs, pan am is still not as good as the muVac.  Might have to invest in some tubes suggested on this thread in order to get the most of out of the amp.


 
 This made me want to upgrade the DAC section more


----------



## NZheadcase

I use the Bifrost as DAC when I use the PanAm as a desktop amp. When travelling though, I don't feel the PanAm lacks - for a portable that is. Still a step up in my books. 
  
BattousaiX26, how do you plan on using the PanAm, majority of the time, if I may ask?


----------



## viggen

themad said:


> I am still waiting for my PanAm+Passport to arrive but I'm already interested in tube rolling.
> 
> So, here, let me help you with 2 articles you might be interested. If you haven't checked them out yet...
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks!  I read the headphonia one already and based on that and other posts on this thread, I already ordered a pair of Mullards and a pair of Cifte from the tube seller in Taiwan that is linked on page 12 of this thread.


----------



## viggen

battousaix26 said:


> This made me want to upgrade the DAC section more


 
 At the 48hr mark. the Pan Am sounds much better even with USB input. 
  
 My theory is the PSU's caps are "charged up" now and is supplying the DAC with better power. 
  
 Quick comparison between internal/external dac, external dac sounds smoother/more intelligible with vocals, more body, detail's more palatable.  Less shimmer/glare with instruments. 
  
 But, it's much much closer between the two dacs compared to 24 hrs ago.


----------



## viggen

nzheadcase said:


> I use the Bifrost as DAC when I use the PanAm as a desktop amp. When travelling though, I don't feel the PanAm lacks - for a portable that is. Still a step up in my books.
> 
> BattousaiX26, how do you plan on using the PanAm, majority of the time, if I may ask?


 
 How would you compare the two dacs?  What's the rest of your setup?


----------



## NZheadcase

viggen said:


> How would you compare the two dacs?  What's the rest of your setup?


 
  
 Comparing the built-in DAC to the Bifrost using just the PanAm as the amp (of course this is the logical way to compare) I would summarize my experience this way:
  
 The biggest difference I have found is soundstage:
  
 The Bifrost (non-uber) has the bigger soundstage. Instruments can be better picked out and it feels to me like the instruments are more spaced out width-wise. Sound feels to be coming from distinct sections on a platform/plane. You may imagine this as you sitting two rows in front of the musicians, or sitting with the musicians facing on the stage - depending on the track of course. 
  
 The PanAm gives a more enveloping sound, instead of giving you a sense of space. One friend described it as a cocoon of sound. The stereo image is very good in the sense that you can pick out the direction where the sound is coming from, but you can't pinpoint the specific location of a given instrument. Sound feels like it is originating from around your head, instead of laid out on a specific point. It is not an in-your-head sound though. 
  
 For everything else, my personal estimation is subtract 10% (give or take a few percentage points) quality from the PanAm built-in DAC from the performance of the Bifrost (non-uber) running via USB. 
  
 The rest of my chain, please check my community profile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hope this helps. You can always PM me for more detailed impressions if you wish.


----------



## BattousaiX26




----------



## BattousaiX26

nzheadcase said:


> I use the Bifrost as DAC when I use the PanAm as a desktop amp. When travelling though, I don't feel the PanAm lacks - for a portable that is. Still a step up in my books.
> 
> BattousaiX26, how do you plan on using the PanAm, majority of the time, if I may ask?


 
 Yes, I use pan am majority of the time because I didn't have other good amplifier/dac.  I also dont have big desk so the size of the pan am really helps


----------



## BattousaiX26

BTW anyone of you have an experience driving a headphone 16 ohms on pan am?


----------



## koolas

Momentum are 18 ohm, and they sound really nice with Pan Am. Though, they are not good enough to pick the differences between DAC's (Pan Am vs. NAD pre-outs connected to Pan Am). But if I use Alpha Dogs (50 ohm) then I would say Pan Am sounds digital (fuzzy, glaring as you mentioned) while NAD sounds analog (smooth, clean and very precise). On the go I am quite happy with what Pan Am has to offer, however I still kinda want to have my NAD with me, but in Pan Am sized package and obviously weighing grams and not kilograms. And it would be super cool if it could be powered from something like Passport. I was always curious what DAC sits in this NAD. Some day I'm going to open it up and see :>

BTW Just ordered from ebay some NOS (what is that?) matched Mullards, hope they'll be fine. Can't wait to hear the difference


----------



## BattousaiX26

koolas said:


> Momentum are 18 ohm, and they sound really nice with Pan Am. Though, they are not good enough to pick the differences between DAC's (Pan Am vs. NAD pre-outs connected to Pan Am). But if I use Alpha Dogs (50 ohm) then I would say Pan Am sounds digital (fuzzy, glaring as you mentioned) while NAD sounds analog (smooth, clean and very precise). On the go I am quite happy with what Pan Am has to offer, however I still kinda want to have my NAD with me, but in Pan Am sized package and obviously weighing grams and not kilograms. And it would be super cool if it could be powered from something like Passport. I was always curious what DAC sits in this NAD. Some day I'm going to open it up and see :>
> 
> BTW Just ordered from ebay some NOS (what is that?) matched Mullards, hope they'll be fine. Can't wait to hear the difference


 
 Hey thanks for the input! I currently have my eyes on the momentum so your input is a great help! I too ordered some mullards and waiting for them to arrive! I am excited also.


----------



## viggen

Well the Pan Am has been with me for 2 weeks now.  I never warmed up to it.  I canceled my order for the NOS tubes because I doubt I will keep the amp.  The DAC is not worth the while and the amp is "pretty good" but not as good as the muVac I already have.  With the muVac, I can listen to music to way to late into the night.  With the Pam Am, I just don't get into the music.  Then, I found a demo RWA HPA Pro on audiogon and decided to give it a shot.  Just received it today.  Will be packing up the Pan Am tomorrow.


----------



## koolas

Just received my Mullards, and quickly placed them in PanAm, and kicked Soundgarden (LG -> NAD -> PanAm). There first impression after 5 seconds of music was HOLLY ******  Why didn't you tell that Mullards change so much!


----------



## koolas

BTW, any other recommendations for tubes that I should definitely hear besides Mullards? What about these Simens that Alo sells on their site?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

koolas said:


> BTW, any other recommendations for tubes that I should definitely hear besides Mullards? What about these Simens that Alo sells on their site?




Telefunken; Cifte; Russian Military/Voskhod Rockets; Siemens


----------



## BattousaiX26

koolas said:


> Just received my Mullards, and quickly placed them in PanAm, and kicked Soundgarden (LG -> NAD -> PanAm). There first impression after 5 seconds of music was HOLLY ******
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats! I am still waiting for mullards and this made me more excited! Anyway I was able to get my hands on Siemens tube and I was also amazed how the sound improved, very expansive soundstage and thick midrange. Now I appreciate Pan Am more and hoping to get more tubes to roll with it


----------



## BattousaiX26

r scott ireland said:


> Telefunken; Cifte; Russian Military/Voskhod Rockets; Siemens


 
@R Scott Ireland sir if you dont mind can you post impression about the difference of those tubes?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

battousaix26 said:


> @R Scott Ireland
> sir if you dont mind can you post impression about the difference of those tubes?




I am traveling right now and don't have my notes, but I will when I return tomorrow!


----------



## seeteeyou

.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

battousaix26 said:


> @R Scott Ireland sir if you dont mind can you post impression about the difference of those tubes?


 
 OK, here goes:

  
 1. Telefunken - To my ears, these tubes render a balanced and accurate representation across all frequencies. They are definitely NOT bass heavy, but accurate (to me), and I love them for classical music. They made my LCD-3's sound better than any other tubes I've tried with the Pan Am and they were equally good with the HD 800's.  
  

 Summary - very accurate; a beautiful tube but not for bass-heads.

  

 2. Cifte - Here are my listening notes with both the LCD-3 and HD 800 - "beautiful, lush (very lush and strong, detailed bass with the LCD-3's), warm overall sound; medium-wide soundstage"; 

  

 They also did very well with Denon D7000's, although these phones are so dark anyway that the highs sometimes felt like they were missing a little when compared to the HD 800 and LCD-3 - this was subtle; the overall sound was excellent.

  

 They did not do as well with the Beyer DT880's; for some reason the bass and mids were not balanced and the highs were overdone.

  

 Audio-Technica phones are a perpetual mystery to me; sometimes they sounded very good with the Cifte's; other times not, and I have no explanation (must be me!). This also happens with other tubes and solid state amps.  This is with AD900X, AD2000 and AD2000X.

  

 Summary - very slightly warm; very euphonic and pleasing; need to pay attention to synergy with particular headphones (and sources too).

  

 3. Russian tubes/Voskhods - These tubes have always, to me, added treble into the equation. They are not "tizzy", but they do emphasize the highs at the expense of the mids and lows, and sometimes they can seem a little harsh because of this. That said, I love them with certain setups. They work great with cans like the Denon D7000's which are dark by nature. The DT880's did better with these tubes and the Audio-Technica's did very well too.

  

 Summary - Tubes with treble on steroids; can be fabulous with the right phones, but unbalanced with others.

  

 4. Siemens - I actually can't find my notes for these, and I haven't listened to them in a long time, so I can't say too much, other than that I remember them as being pretty neutral, along the lines of the Telefunkens, but not as refined.

  

 5. Mullards - I also listen to Mullards a good bit and they tend to be on the warmer side, but are very euphonic and lush with the right phones.  The DT880's (600 ohm) came alive with these; here are my notes - " An interesting and unique soundscape, different from all other phones; not as much bass as I expected with the Mullards, but the mids are incredible; enough reason to keep these headphones even if they sounded lousy with everything else."

  

 Strangely, the Audio-Technica's often sounded good with the Mullards as well. It's unusual that a dark tube (Mullard) and a bright tube (Russians) both make a headphone sound good. I'll chalk it off to the quirkiness of the AT phones that I have yet to figure out (as I said earlier).

  

 Summary - Warm, lush tubes that helped to give the term "tube sound" its name. A must-have tube.


----------



## BattousaiX26

r scott ireland said:


> OK, here goes:
> 
> 
> 1. Telefunken - To my ears, these tubes render a balanced and accurate representation across all frequencies. They are definitely NOT bass heavy, but accurate (to me), and I love them for classical music. They made my LCD-3's sound better than any other tubes I've tried with the Pan Am and they were equally good with the HD 800's.
> ...


 
 Wow! Thank you very much sir for the very informative input! BTW sir do you think that the mullards can tame hd800 treble if I find it bright?
 I ordered mullard tubes and very interested in getting an HD800 after auditioning it with my pan am using siemens but I am worried because the siemens although smoothen the treble a bit is still bright that I might have a listening fatigue overtime and also are those tubes sir all 6ak5w?


----------



## ahhui90

I don't see the need for AA batteries, try using Astro external battery packs which outputs 12 volts.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

battousaix26 said:


> Wow! Thank you very much sir for the very informative input! BTW sir do you think that the mullards can tame hd800 treble if I find it bright?
> I ordered mullard tubes and very interested in getting an HD800 after auditioning it with my pan am using siemens but I am worried because the siemens although smoothen the treble a bit is still bright that I might have a listening fatigue overtime and also are those tubes sir all 6ak5w?


 
  
 My pleasure!
  
 All of the tubes are 6AK5's or 6AK5W's.  Strangely, I  don't recall listening to the Mullards with my HD 800's, but I suspect that they would do very well with them. They sounded excellent with the Telefunkens and even with the Russian tubes, which is odd since the Russians seem so bright with other phones.


----------



## BattousaiX26

r scott ireland said:


> My pleasure!
> 
> All of the tubes are 6AK5's or 6AK5W's.  Strangely, I  don't recall listening to the Mullards with my HD 800's, but I suspect that they would do very well with them. They sounded excellent with the Telefunkens and even with the Russian tubes, which is odd since the Russians seem so bright with other phones.


 
 I see. Btw which has warmer sound: the cifte or mullards?


----------



## BattousaiX26

Anyway my mullards finally arrived yesterday. Compared to siemens, the bass has more impact and it provides better dynamics although I think that siemens is slightly more spacious and smoother than mullards. With the ad2kx both tube sounds good but with the dt990 mullard is clearly the better tube for it. With the siemens, the dt900 somehow lose the attack that makes in fun to listen but with the mullards, the midrange has been brought up while still retaining the attack.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

battousaix26 said:


> I see. Btw which has warmer sound: the cifte or mullards?




Mullards.


----------



## koolas

r scott ireland said:


> 5. Mullards - I also listen to Mullards a good bit and they tend to be on the warmer side, but are very euphonic and lush with the right phones.  The DT880's (600 ohm) came alive with these; here are my notes - " An interesting and unique soundscape, different from all other phones; not as much bass as I expected with the Mullards, but the *mids are incredible*; enough reason to keep these headphones even if they sounded lousy with everything else."




That is absolutely true! I think I might be a "mids-head" 

I think also that Mullards distort sound in that nice tubey way, that gives adds that analogue feeling to Pan Am's DAC, which otherwise sound very "digital". I just love how Pan Am sounds with Mullards whether I listen to classical, trance or pop - it's a pure joy especially on very well resolving orthos


----------



## NZheadcase

Using the PanAm to drive the Alpha Dogs at the office. Siemens tubes, high gain. Just have several hours on the pairing right now, but wow! Of all the closed headphones that I've used here at work, this is the pair that currently holds the top spot. Great isolation, great sound quality.
  
 The TH900 sounds better on the PanAm overall, especially in the bass, but the isolation is not up to par on the Alpha Dogs. Isolation and comfort-wise this PanAm>Alpha Dog is the best office pairing I have experienced.
  
 I've yet to try these cans on other gear as I've packed all those up. Moving house this week. Also waiting on the HiFi M8. Hopefully the PanAm vs M8 will provide a fun comparison. But right now, the PanAm satisfies.


----------



## koolas

nzheadcase said:


> The TH900 sounds better on the PanAm overall, especially in the bass, but the isolation is not up to par on the Alpha Dogs. Isolation and comfort-wise this *PanAm>Alpha Dog is the best office pairing I have experienced*.




Couldn't agree with you more  Did you get any interesting comments from colleagues in the office?



nzheadcase said:


> I've yet to try these cans on other gear as I've packed all those up. Moving house this week. Also waiting on the HiFi M8. Hopefully the PanAm vs M8 will provide a fun comparison. But right now, the PanAm satisfies.




So once you get M8, will you try it as DAC with Pan Am as amp maybe?


----------



## NZheadcase

koolas said:


> Couldn't agree with you more
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 They're pretty much used to seeing me with "weird" headphones, so no out there comments about the alpha dogs. hehehe. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I will probably try a couple of things, however, head to head as a DAC/Amp from USB seems the most appropriate comparison. I may try to compare them as portable setups with android as source (the PanAm won't work straight up via USB on any of my iOS devices) as well.


----------



## NZheadcase

Here's some Alpha Dogs + PanAm + Carlsberg + Head-fi action for you.


----------



## BattousaiX26

nzheadcase said:


> Here's some Alpha Dogs + PanAm + Carlsberg + Head-fi action for you.


 
 nice desk!


----------



## koolas

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






nzheadcase said:


> Here's some Alpha Dogs + PanAm + Carlsberg + Head-fi action for you.






All in place


----------



## desertstrike

hi guys, i just got my pan am, all is great but i notice there is a hissing or static interference noise, is this normal?
  
 my setup is the panam + passport + hd600
  
 thanks!


----------



## themad

No, it is not normal. I don't notice any kind of noise or hiss on mine, even if I turn the volume all the way up.
  
 Try changing the place you put it. Maybe it is interference from your monitor or even cell phone? What input are you using? Did you try changing cables as well? There are a couple of tests you could do to identify the source of this.


----------



## desertstrike

i tried changing the power cable, and even remove the usb cable... to no avail...
  
 brought it back to the shop, the shop owner ask me how long have i been using it, i said 4 hours,
 he said it is normal and ask me to run in for 24 hours...
  
 the power cord can be any power cord or even those used for LCD or desktop?


----------



## ahhui90

just curious are you from SG?


----------



## themad

desertstrike said:


> i tried changing the power cable, and even remove the usb cable... to no avail...
> 
> brought it back to the shop, the shop owner ask me how long have i been using it, i said 4 hours,
> he said it is normal and ask me to run in for 24 hours...
> ...


 
  
 What power cord is that?
 My Passport came with a wall wart to recharge it. And then I connect the Passport to the PanAm using one of the connecting cables provided (3 different sizes).


----------



## koolas

desertstrike said:


> hi guys, i just got my pan am, all is great but i notice there is a hissing or static interference noise, is this normal?
> 
> my setup is the panam + passport + hd600
> 
> thanks!




I also hear that when I connect Pan Am to my laptop. I think hear it only on more sensitive headphones like CX300II and RH-A30. I don't remember hearing it on Alpha Dogs or HD570.


----------



## koolas

Going back to my question from some time ago, i.e. "What DAC will improve Pan Am SQ?" 

Back then I found that DAC in Pan Am is not as good as DAC in my huge NAD T744. I was wondering if there is any standalone DAC for reasonable price that would out-do Pan Am's DAC and if it would perform as good as DAC in T744. I can imagine there is a huge gap between Pan Am and the T744. So while finding a DAC better than one in Pan Am is probably not a big problem, finding low priced and yet still portable DAC that will sound better than huge (over 10kg) AVR (especially if it's made by NAD) is a proper challenge.

So what did I found? I found iDSD. At the first glance I was calculating, Pan Am is at EUR600 level and iDSD is EUR180 level, so I concluded it is a bet. I never heard iDSD before, but I have read good reviews. I couldn't stand curiosity and ordered it on almighty ebay. When I received it I found it not working properly with my laptop, but it worked with my desktop, so I tried it with that. I have tried its headphone out for a very short while, and switched RCA outs connected to Pan Am.

Wow! When I heard that sound I was in heaven! So much f...n detail! And the background is so black, instruments so sharp! Then I wanted to see how it does with DSD format and so I downloaded some sample songs in DSD128 format. When I heard iDSD playing them I was in total shock. The sound I was hearing I wouldn't qualify as amazing, but I would qualify it as life like. It gave me the feel of full presence. It was no longer about sound quality, but all about the artists who play and how they play, like Hi-Fi equipment was not there anymore.

Being in such a shock, I figured out that if some DAC for EUR180 can make me feel this way, what else can be done by let's say Invicta? Maybe some day I will have chance to see my self and maybe iDSD will be not as good as Invicta, but at present moment I can't even imagine that! It is far beyond my imagination.

So, conclusion

Laptop -> iDSD => Pan Am -> Alpha Dog 

This is the rig from StartTrek - turn it on and it will teleport you to a different place.


----------



## desertstrike

ahhui90 said:


> just curious are you from SG?


 
  
 yea. got the dx 50 casing from u, remember? lol...
  
 anyway, where do u get the mullard tube?


----------



## desertstrike

themad said:


> What power cord is that?
> My Passport came with a wall wart to recharge it. And then I connect the Passport to the PanAm using one of the connecting cables provided (3 different sizes).


 
  
 i tried using the power cord that came in the accessory box and those power cord that is use to connect the wall socket to the computer power supply unit
  
 can those be used?
  
 also, why do u get the passport instead of the gateway?


----------



## desertstrike

koolas said:


> I also hear that when I connect Pan Am to my laptop. I think hear it only on more sensitive headphones like CX300II and RH-A30. I don't remember hearing it on Alpha Dogs or HD570.


 
  
 are u connecting to the wall socket directly or through the passport/gateway?


----------



## desertstrike

Guys, is it safe to leave the tube cover on when the unit powered on?


----------



## themad

desertstrike said:


> i tried using the power cord that came in the accessory box and those power cord that is use to connect the wall socket to the computer power supply unit
> 
> can those be used?
> 
> also, why do u get the passport instead of the gateway?


 
  
 If you are using the power cord that came with it, there's no reason you shouldn't.
  
 I got the Passport for a little portability, since it is an external battery.
 I understand you have the Passport too. If you use the Passport instead of the power cord to power the PanAm you don't have any kind of noise, do you?


----------



## ahhui90

desertstrike said:


> yea. got the dx 50 casing from u, remember? lol...
> 
> anyway, where do u get the mullard tube?


 
 http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=14&products_id=521
 but they are closed till june
  
 try keeping the tube covers on and use stereo input instead of usb, see if it helps


----------



## desertstrike

ahhui90 said:


> http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=14&products_id=521
> but they are closed till june
> 
> try keeping the tube covers on and use stereo input instead of usb, see if it helps


 
  
 thanks!


----------



## desertstrike

themad said:


> If you are using the power cord that came with it, there's no reason you shouldn't.
> 
> I got the Passport for a little portability, since it is an external battery.
> I understand you have the Passport too. If you use the Passport instead of the power cord to power the PanAm you don't have any kind of noise, do you?


 
  
 Guys, i found the root of the problem! 
  
 It is my wifi adapter interfering with the tube!
  
 after removing the adapter, it is completely quiet!


----------



## koolas

desertstrike said:


> Guys, is it safe to leave the tube cover on when the unit powered on?




I was using Pan Am this way for few months and nothing bad happened. I think these tube covers shield from EMI, but I think they shorten life of tubes. I found Mullards started distorting sound after some time. I think the heat might heave affected them.

I got Mullarrds from British ebay.


----------



## koolas

desertstrike said:


> are u connecting to the wall socket directly or through the passport/gateway?




I just checked with and without wall-wart. I heard nothing on Mullards, and on stock tubes I heard hum when Pan Am got input from unconnected RCAs and I touched Pan Ams chassis with my finger. I'm pretty sure I have heard some interference from laptop some time ago, but I can't hear it now.

Try Mullards, and see if that helps  You can get them on ebay.


----------



## Crashem

Just did short listen of my friend's new pan am with his hd650. Wow it was surprisingly good and better than I would have thought. I like it better than with my lcdx with the pan am.


----------



## desertstrike

Guys, is the sound quality better using the passport instead of the gateway?


----------



## NZheadcase

desertstrike said:


> Guys, is the sound quality better using the passport instead of the gateway?


 
  
 From my experience, no. The quality is the same. However, if you have issues with wiring in your house - for example, turning on a light would cause audible hum in your PanAm - then you are better off using the Passport to isolate your amp. If you have no wiring issues, the quality will be the same to these ears of mine at least. 
  
 I do notice that the tubes and the amp run a little bit warmer when on the Gateway.


----------



## koolas

Some reviews say Pan Am from Passport has exceptionally black background, while from Gateway it's only almost black. If you connect Gateway through Passport (like it's suggested), then you would probably get same black background, but if you run straight from Gateway it might not be the case. I can't say my-self about Gateway, since I don't have one, but when I connect wall-wart to Passport I don't hear any change. I never tried to run Pan Am straight from wall-wart. I think the benefit of having Gateway is that it probably is more efficient than wall-wart, so you would pay less for electricity you consume to charge Passport.


----------



## desertstrike

anyone knows where to buy mullard tubes?


----------



## koolas

desertstrike said:


> anyone knows where to buy mullard tubes?




On ebay?


----------



## desertstrike

koolas said:


> On ebay?


 
Okie, there are a lot of choice, how do we know which one fits panam?


----------



## desertstrike

Also, what is meant by "tube matching service"?


----------



## koolas

I guess it's to ensure that both tubes you get are very close in measurements, so left and right channel would sound the same.

I bought these: M8100/CV4010/6AK5W MULLARD NOS MATCHED PAIR


----------



## BattousaiX26

Anyone tried which Mullards is better: The one labeled as valve electronic cv4010 6ak5w or the one with the label mullards m8100 ef95?


----------



## koolas

Are these not the same thing?


----------



## Fishwater

Ok, I just read all 34 pages of the thread & surprised that I didn't see the AKG Q701 mentioned. I'm interested Ina tube amp for my 701's , I listen to classic rock exclusively in high resolution. In my main system I have owned BAT, Rogue & Quicksilver tube amps so I like the ability to roll tubes as well as inherent live sound quality I feel only tubes emulate. The Pan Am is extremely appealing because I like the ability to bring it on the road with me. How do you guys think it will sound with the 701's?


----------



## BattousaiX26

koolas said:


> Are these not the same thing?


 
 Well they have different looks so I am kind of wondering. The one has a blue box and the other one has a white box


----------



## BattousaiX26

fishwater said:


> Ok, I just read all 34 pages of the thread & surprised that I didn't see the AKG Q701 mentioned. I'm interested Ina tube amp for my 701's , I listen to classic rock exclusively in high resolution. In my main system I have owned BAT, Rogue & Quicksilver tube amps so I like the ability to roll tubes as well as inherent live sound quality I feel only tubes emulate. The Pan Am is extremely appealing because I like the ability to bring it on the road with me. How do you guys think it will sound with the 701's?


 
 I have tried Pan Am using Siemens tube with the q701 on the headphone store. It made the q701 much more musical and smoother on the treble. On the bass side, I think there is only a little bit of added impact but is enough.Maybe mullards tube will be a better pair for them if you want more bass.


----------



## Veetastic

battousaix26 said:


> Anyone tried which Mullards is better: The one labeled as valve electronic cv4010 6ak5w or the one with the label mullards m8100 ef95?


 
  


battousaix26 said:


> Well they have different looks so I am kind of wondering. The one has a blue box and the other one has a white box


 
  
 From what I understand about tubes is that those numbers all correspond to the same socket type. However, the difference in labels such as cv4010 vs m8100 is that one is of consumer grade and the other of military grade respectively.


----------



## BattousaiX26

veetastic said:


> From what I understand about tubes is that those numbers all correspond to the same socket type. However, the difference in labels such as cv4010 vs m8100 is that one is of consumer grade and the other of military grade respectively.


 
 I see so what is the difference between consumer and military grade?


----------



## Veetastic

battousaix26 said:


> I see so what is the difference between consumer and military grade?


 
 I don't exactly know. I'm no expert but I would assume that military grade tubes are "built to last" whatever that really means. My dad once told me that consumer grade tubes were produced to be used in your everyday radios and whatnot. Military tubes would be used in military devices such as communication devices etcetera. They also usually have a higher price point. 
  
 The thing is if the materials used to produce the tubes are different, wouldn't they have a different sound? What does "built to last" in this case mean? I can't really tell you. I don't know. I can tell you that as a believer of such nonsense I would opt to buy the military grade tubes over the consumer type tubes.


----------



## desertstrike

Anyone using alo USB cable for this amp?


----------



## BattousaiX26

desertstrike said:


> Anyone using alo USB cable for this amp?


 
 I do not own the cable but my friend lent me his alo cable,the green one. I could not detect difference in sound using the alo usb cable vs cheap usb cable.


----------



## BattousaiX26

veetastic said:


> I don't exactly know. I'm no expert but I would assume that military grade tubes are "built to last" whatever that really means. My dad once told me that consumer grade tubes were produced to be used in your everyday radios and whatnot. Military tubes would be used in military devices such as communication devices etcetera. They also usually have a higher price point.
> 
> The thing is if the materials used to produce the tubes are different, wouldn't they have a different sound? What does "built to last" in this case mean? I can't really tell you. I don't know. I can tell you that as a believer of such nonsense I would opt to buy the military grade tubes over the consumer type tubes.


 
 I see... Anyway thanks for the input!


----------



## NZheadcase

desertstrike said:


> Anyone using alo USB cable for this amp?


 
  
 I have the ALO Pan Am cable. Got it with the amp. Works as well as any normal USB cable I've tried.
  
 It's prettier though.


----------



## desertstrike

Thanks for the info, Nz and batt.


----------



## BattousaiX26

Anyone tried Radiotechnique tube? Alo is selling them on site.


----------



## NZheadcase

battousaix26 said:


> Anyone tried Radiotechnique tube? Alo is selling them on site.


 
  
 New stock of NOS tubes from ALO? Interesting. Might get them and have them shipped here when my Hifi M8 is ready to go. Won't be for a while though. 
  
 How are you getting along with your current tubes?


----------



## BattousaiX26

nzheadcase said:


> New stock of NOS tubes from ALO? Interesting. Might get them and have them shipped here when my Hifi M8 is ready to go. Won't be for a while though.
> 
> How are you getting along with your current tubes?


 
 Please post impressions if ever you will be getting them because I am also interested in getting them. I only have mullards and siemens. So far, I like mullards on almost any kind of song and siemens if I feel I like to have a better sense of space and richness although lacking in bass so I think mullards is better all arounder tube than siemens.


----------



## NZheadcase

battousaix26 said:


> Please post impressions if ever you will be getting them because I am also interested in getting them. I only have mullards and siemens. So far, I like mullards on almost any kind of song and siemens if I feel I like to have a better sense of space and richness although lacking in bass so I think mullards is better all arounder tube than siemens.


 
  
 Will do mate. 
  
 Yeah, for the Siemens, I think we share the same impressions. I use the Siemens tubes when running the TH900 on the PanAm. No lack of bass as the headphone is naturally gifted in that area, but the sense of space and detail matches well. The Russian tubes I like on the T1 and Alpha Dog.


----------



## BattousaiX26

nzheadcase said:


> Will do mate.
> 
> Yeah, for the Siemens, I think we share the same impressions. I use the Siemens tubes when running the TH900 on the PanAm. No lack of bass as the headphone is naturally gifted in that area, but the sense of space and detail matches well. The Russian tubes I like on the T1 and Alpha Dog.


 
 Wish I would experience pan am with those gears too... Between T1 and Th900 which do you think has better synergy with the pan am?


----------



## NZheadcase

battousaix26 said:


> Wish I would experience pan am with those gears too... Between T1 and Th900 which do you think has better synergy with the pan am?


 
  
 Right now, the T1 and the AD. The TH900 is good, but trumped by the T1 in terms of pure enjoyment for me.  
  
 I might come home to Manila in a year's time. I'll bring some cans.


----------



## desertstrike

hi guys, when i search for mullard ef95 cv4010 tube, i notice there a lot of variation, britian, germany, bei jing etc.... which one should i get?


----------



## koolas

I just ordered these. Should I expect anything good from them?


----------



## BattousaiX26

nzheadcase said:


> Right now, the T1 and the AD. The TH900 is good, but trumped by the T1 in terms of pure enjoyment for me.
> 
> I might come home to Manila in a year's time. I'll bring some cans.


 
 Wow nice! So you are a filipino too?


----------



## BattousaiX26

desertstrike said:


> hi guys, when i search for mullard ef95 cv4010 tube, i notice there a lot of variation, britian, germany, bei jing etc.... which one should i get?


 
 I think I have the britain ver(white box) and the review on headfonia has the white box also so I think you should get the one with the white box...


----------



## BattousaiX26

koolas said:


> I just ordered these. Should I expect anything good from them?


 
 Pls post impressions when you got them...


----------



## NZheadcase

battousaix26 said:


> Wow nice! So you are a filipino too?


 
  
 Yes po. Batang UP Diliman. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (TRANSLATION FOR THE REST OF YOU: University of the Philippines Diliman Alum)


----------



## BeyerMonster

Just received a new Pan Am and LCD-XC combo (~100 hours time on each so far), and was wondering if anyone else hears differences playing with the gain switch in terms of sonic signature?
  
I tried it just now and it seemed like there were some subtle differences. The high-gain position seems to have relatively more bass/treble and recessed mids in comparison to the low-gain position, but all of this gear is so new to me that I'm not sure if it's just psychoacoustics.
  
 With the switch in low-gain, normal listening levels are around 9-10 o'clock. With the switch in high-gain, normal listening levels in the 8-9 o'clock range. So level matching is almost impossible to do for relevant A/B testing.
  
 For reference, the LCD-XC is supposed to be a 22 ohm resistive load.


----------



## themad

I didn't notice any difference. I actually tried to, but couldn't find anything. Used a few IEMs and a few full size cans.


----------



## koolas

I did notice the difference, but I think it's just because pot is at different position to get same volume level. As I understand the gain setting is not the same as pot, and it is located in feedback loop, while pot is either on the input or output. At low gain setting you should get better SQ as the feedback is reduced. Also with low gain you can put pot almost to the end, and thus signal path through the pot is shorter. Ideally at 100% path is 0, and you get best SQ, but you can also end up being deaf. If your volume is below 50% then I don't think there is any difference between low and high in SQ.


----------



## themad

Interesting idea. I will put Windows volume very low and see if I notice differences between low and high gain while turning the volume pot close to maximum.


----------



## Veetastic

beyermonster said:


> Just received a new Pan Am and LCD-XC combo (~100 hours time on each so far), and was wondering if anyone else hears differences playing with the gain switch in terms of sonic signature?
> 
> I tried it just now and it seemed like there were some subtle differences. The high-gain position seems to have relatively more bass/treble and recessed mids in comparison to the low-gain position, but all of this gear is so new to me that I'm not sure if it's just psychoacoustics.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Having a high gain setting for me just makes the sound stage seem smaller. In a way, to me it sounds like the singer/instruments are brought closer to you at the same volume so everything just becomes super loud and closer to your ear. It goes beyond just the volume of the music because even at lower volumes with the high gain setting, the sound just gets too "loud" and the music becomes noise. There is no noise but the music isn't exactly music anymore. Of course this is from my own observations with the Pan Am + Passport + LCD 2.


----------



## desertstrike

hmm... i just can't find a tube... be it source or not sure which is the correct one... will anybody please point be to a direct source to buy the mullard tube please?


----------



## ahhui90

desertstrike said:


> hmm... i just can't find a tube... be it source or not sure which is the correct one... will anybody please point be to a direct source to buy the mullard tube please?


 
 someone posted before on this thread.
 http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=14&products_id=521
 they are on a break till late june. you can't buy till then. if you want to try it feel free to drop me a PM 
  
 edit: oh wait that someone is me


----------



## ahhui90

Just to share my setup. yeah i know it looks hideous


----------



## desertstrike

ahhui90 said:


> someone posted before on this thread.
> http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=14&products_id=521
> they are on a break till late june. you can't buy till then. if you want to try it feel free to drop me a PM
> 
> edit: oh wait that someone is me




Yup, they are not operation until June...


----------



## desertstrike

ahhui90 said:


> Just to share my setup. yeah i know it looks hideous




Hmm u replacing the passport with that battery?

Anyway, What carrying case u use to transport PanAm?


----------



## ahhui90

desertstrike said:


> Hmm u replacing the passport with that battery?
> 
> Anyway, What carrying case u use to transport PanAm?


 
 yes. its only a quarter of the cost of passport.
 i bought it for fun, no intent of using the pan am outdoors.
 using it as a portable charger for my gadgets.


----------



## BattousaiX26

No one ordered this http://www.aloaudio.com/accessories/vacuum-tubes/the-pan-am-vacuum-tubes/radiotechnique-rtc-ef95-6ak5-5654?


----------



## Fishwater

battousaix26 said:


> No one ordered this http://www.aloaudio.com/accessories/vacuum-tubes/the-pan-am-vacuum-tubes/radiotechnique-rtc-ef95-6ak5-5654?



I sent a message to ALO asking if they felt the Pan Am would drive my Q701's, they felt it would & recommended the French tubes. I don't know if that is their blanket statement overall with this amp or just with my AKG's.


----------



## BattousaiX26

fishwater said:


> I sent a message to ALO asking if they felt the Pan Am would drive my Q701's, they felt it would & recommended the French tubes. I don't know if that is their blanket statement overall with this amp or just with my AKG's.


 
 Hmm I am curious with its sound characteristic. Will you order those french tubes?


----------



## 394216

I would also like to know if the Pan Am can drive my K701 well. I'm currently using a Bravo Ocean which is also a hybrid amp with NOS RCA 12au7. Will upgrading to the Pan Am be a dramatic improvement?


----------



## Solitary1

torpedorag said:


> I would also like to know if the Pan Am can drive my K701 well. I'm currently using a Bravo Ocean which is also a hybrid amp with NOS RCA 12au7. Will upgrading to the Pan Am be a dramatic improvement?


 
 I have K702, and the Pan Am drives them fine. I also used to have Bravo, the Pan Am is in a entirely different league.


----------



## 394216

Thanks! The Bravo sounds good with my K701. But the build quality of the damned thing is so poor. The 1/4" jack loses the right channel so I have to use the 1/8" one. The RCA line in also does not work. Maybe I was just unlucky.
  
 Good to hear that the Pan Am is in another league. I also love the idea of it being transportable using the passport. Well, time to save up I guess.


----------



## nicdub

just got my pan am about two months ago.  really enjoy the sound, but occasionally the usb will produce a really bad static, with the only solution being restarting my MacBook Pro.  Anyone else having issues like this?  it has happened with multiple tubes, so it is not just tube noise.  much too loud to be mistaken for that anyways.


----------



## Solitary1

nicdub said:


> just got my pan am about two months ago.  really enjoy the sound, but occasionally the usb will produce a really bad static, with the only solution being restarting my MacBook Pro.  Anyone else having issues like this?  it has happened with multiple tubes, so it is not just tube noise.  much too loud to be mistaken for that anyways.


 
 Never had that happened on my Mac Mini. What other devices do you have on USB bus?


----------



## nicdub

The only things plugged into my computer are the pan am and an external hard drive.


----------



## GarySaville

nicdub said:


> just got my pan am about two months ago.  really enjoy the sound, but occasionally the usb will produce a really bad static, with the only solution being restarting my MacBook Pro.  Anyone else having issues like this?  it has happened with multiple tubes, so it is not just tube noise.  much too loud to be mistaken for that anyways.


 
 Do you have the tube caps over the tubes? For my setup--sensitive IEMs--the tube caps are essential for limiting interference. I've added an iFi iPower unit as well, and while I get very little interference now, I do still occasionally have to reposition the PanAm due to some sort of interference. Another thing that helps is putting the PanAm on a cloth or some sort of soft surface; the tubes picks up resonances from anything in contact with the unit.


----------



## nicdub

garysaville said:


> Do you have the tube caps over the tubes? For my setup--sensitive IEMs--the tube caps are essential for limiting interference. I've added an iFi iPower unit as well, and while I get very little interference now, I do still occasionally have to reposition the PanAm due to some sort of interference. Another thing that helps is putting the PanAm on a cloth or some sort of soft surface; the tubes picks up resonances from anything in contact with the unit.


 
 yep, have the caps on.  the last time it happened, i used the midi on the macbook to switch the output to the computer speakers to listen to something without using the headphones.  when i switched it back to the pan am, the static was overwhelming.  then i restarted my computer and the static was gone.  weird.


----------



## koolas

I think with the caps tubes are getting hotter and this they distort sound more. I've noticed that on Mullards.


----------



## NZheadcase

nicdub said:


> yep, have the caps on.  the last time it happened, i used the midi on the macbook to switch the output to the computer speakers to listen to something without using the headphones.  when i switched it back to the pan am, the static was overwhelming.  then i restarted my computer and the static was gone.  weird.


 
  
 Slight buzzing sound? Starts off like a tiiiiiny nnnzzzzzzttttt, then progresses and gets louder? Had that before.
  
 If yes, that could mean: 
  
 a.) There are too many programs running at the same time
 b.) You are using the ALO Pan Am Cable (I find I hear occasional static when I use this on a MAC, but not on Windows. Weird, I know.)
 c.) Your MAC just came out of sleep mode
  
 In which case:
  
 a.) More RAM or run less apps concurrently
 b.) Use a different USB Cable. 
 b.) Just restart when this happens. 
  
 YMMV. 
 Just my 2-cents. 
 Etc., etc.


----------



## koolas

Sylvania arrived! Wow! What the sound!






I made "wow!" when I got Mullards. But now I'm saying "wow!" again! Sylvania sounds not from this world. Will I ever "wow!" again?

Quick comparison:
Stock tubes:
- more energy efficient (day)
- sound doesn't get distorted at higher volumes
- they lack power
- bass is weak
- mids are good, but not astonishing

Mullards:
- consume more power (6-7 hours)
- sound gets distorted easily at higher volumes (especially at low end)
- they have plenty of power
- bass is powerful (literally you need to be careful, at loud volumes high pressure of bass at very low end may cause pain)
- mids are wide open, i.e. rock music and vocals shine like super nova

Sylvania:
- consume enormous amount of power (after 3 hours Passport was gone) (*)
- haven't heard any distortion so far - probably because they consume enormous amount of power
- bass goes very low and it's very tight and very powerful
- mids are perfect, i.e. not as exaggerated as on Mullards, but they reveal subtle details of the music
- now I know the reason why Gateway exists... 

Remember, YMMV 

(*) Sylvania might need a bit of burn-in to become more efficient. On the second day I was able to run from Passport for 6-7 hours at 1/3 volume with them.


----------



## themad

Nice! Where did you buy from?


----------



## koolas

themad said:


> Nice! Where did you buy from?




http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171040444372?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## themad

koolas said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171040444372?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649




Thanks for that. Now I just need a pair of headphones to use them...I miss my HE-500s.
But I'm amazed to read they killed the passport in 3 hours!


----------



## koolas

I ran on Sylvania today for 6-7 hours and Passport still isn't empty. Might be that yesterday it was first time these tubes were used since they left factory in 1942, and little burn-in was required. I was running at 1/3 volume though. I also noticed little bit more of high treble (>10k), and maybe small distortion in that spectrum range when played at really loud (unhealthy) volume.

Bottom line is I do love Sylvania with Trance music, and I am not planning to switch them back with Mulalrds (at least not very often), but if I was big fan of Metal I would probably stay with Mullards. Classical music (e.g. Sibelius Violin Concerto) sounds really superb. The detail of violin makes that feel of presence. It's a brilliant tube. A must have IMHO.


----------



## Annafrancesca

nicdub said:


> just got my pan am about two months ago.  really enjoy the sound, but occasionally the usb will produce a really bad static, with the only solution being restarting my MacBook Pro.  Anyone else having issues like this?  it has happened with multiple tubes, so it is not just tube noise.  much too loud to be mistaken for that anyways.


 
  
  
  
 I have noticed this with my 2011 MPB with the regular platter HDD. Then I switched over to the 2013 MBP with SSD and the noise was gone, or so I though....Then I started noticing some static again, thinking, the new MBP's have no moving parts, no spinning hard drives. There shouldn't be any noise. Believe it or not, the tubes are so sensitive, it can detect the electrical current running through the laptop. touch one of the tubes, and I swear, I can hear the static following the sound of my heartbeat. (Or probably because my pulse makes my finger twitch)
  
  
 Anyways, the tube caps help reduce interference and static. Try and move the PanAm away from any electrical, mechanical or moving objects. and I agree with GarySaville, a soft cloth or a piece of foam under the PanAm can help isolate the tubes from any vibrations.
  
 ....Side note, this is my first post since 2013.  Happy new year guys, its good to be back.


----------



## nicdub

annafrancesca said:


> I have noticed this with my 2011 MPB with the regular platter HDD. Then I switched over to the 2013 MBP with SSD and the noise was gone, or so I though....Then I started noticing some static again, thinking, the new MBP's have no moving parts, no spinning hard drives. There shouldn't be any noise. Believe it or not, the tubes are so sensitive, it can detect the electrical current running through the laptop. touch one of the tubes, and I swear, I can hear the static following the sound of my heartbeat. (Or probably because my pulse makes my finger twitch)
> 
> 
> Anyways, the tube caps help reduce interference and static. Try and move the PanAm away from any electrical, mechanical or moving objects. and I agree with GarySaville, a soft cloth or a piece of foam under the PanAm can help isolate the tubes from any vibrations.
> ...




Thanks for the response. I've tried to replicate the issue with both my 2009 MacBook Pro and a 2013 MacBook Air, but haven't been able. Perhaps it was just a ghost in the machine.


----------



## BattousaiX26

Anyone here is using clas db/theorems with pan am?


----------



## TontonJoK

My galaxy note 3 creates noise into the amp unless there is 3 feet minimum between the 2

I have siemens, mullards and voskhod tubes and so far I prefer the Russians


----------



## Fishwater

I received my Pan Am on Saturday, I bought it from a fellow member here with a pair of Siemens & Russian tubes. I had been listening to my AKG Q701's with my Fiio E17 & had expected the Pan Am to blow the Fiio out of the water which quite frankly didn't happen. I spent the weekend listening to the Pan Am rolling the stock tubes, the Russian tubes & the Siemens, overall I am not hearing the warmth & smoothness I expected out of a tube amp so I've ordered the Mullards & French tubes. At this point I am thinking the bottleneck is the AKG's so I'm looking for a new set of cans that sound as detailed & lively as the AKG's with a little less harshness in the treble region. I listen to rock music exclusively & owned a pair of HD598's that I found grainy & dull. So where do I go from here? My budget is around $400 used, as much as I'd love the LCD2 that isn't going to happen just yet, I'd like to enjoy the journey trying a few different cans learning the various sound signatures that are out there. The Hifiman cans look interesting but I can't demo anything locally & there isn't a meet locally for a while. So where do I go from here?
Also if it matters I only have the wall wart for my Pan Am, I do have a portable battery that I can use to power the Pan Am but I don't know if the lack of the Gateway or Passport is my problem?


----------



## BattousaiX26

fishwater said:


> I received my Pan Am on Saturday, I bought it from a fellow member here with a pair of Siemens & Russian tubes. I had been listening to my AKG Q701's with my Fiio E17 & had expected the Pan Am to blow the Fiio out of the water which quite frankly didn't happen. I spent the weekend listening to the Pan Am rolling the stock tubes, the Russian tubes & the Siemens, overall I am not hearing the warmth & smoothness I expected out of a tube amp so I've ordered the Mullards & French tubes. At this point I am thinking the bottleneck is the AKG's so I'm looking for a new set of cans that sound as detailed & lively as the AKG's with a little less harshness in the treble region. I listen to rock music exclusively & owned a pair of HD598's that I found grainy & dull. So where do I go from here? My budget is around $400 used, as much as I'd love the LCD2 that isn't going to happen just yet, I'd like to enjoy the journey trying a few different cans learning the various sound signatures that are out there. The Hifiman cans look interesting but I can't demo anything locally & there isn't a meet locally for a while. So where do I go from here?
> Also if it matters I only have the wall wart for my Pan Am, I do have a portable battery that I can use to power the Pan Am but I don't know if the lack of the Gateway or Passport is my problem?


 
 Tubes need burn in so you might not notice the difference between the sound at short period of time. Anyway you might wanna try HD600


----------



## TontonJoK

yes hd 600 or even hifiman HE 400 would be a good choice in your price limit

The pan am pairs perfectly with the LCd 2 but it's not the same budget


----------



## BeyerMonster

Tube noob here as I've always been a SS guy. Got my Pan Am a few weeks back through Audeze and I'm trying to ID my tubes. It seems like most previous comments mentioned that the stock tubes were of chinese origin and some people thought the $9 russian tubes were a worthwhile upgrade. However, when looking at the tubes I have, they look a lot like the Russian tubes on the ALO website. How do I tell?
  
1 tube has a Triangle with "4 OTK" in it and a diamond with what looks like A 519/10 Pi (symbol, not text).
 The other tubes lettering is much more faint. Not sure if I somehow rubbed it off while plugging/unplugging it, but I've inserted/removed them < 3 times.
  

 Same tubes, different angle.


----------



## Veetastic

These are my russian tubes bought from the ALO website
  

 These are the stock tubes that come with the Pan Am. I cant really make out anything except it has a star symbol at the center.
  
 not sure if this helps at all haha


----------



## TontonJoK

Mine have 6Ж1П-EB printed and a rocket logo


----------



## Fishwater

I'm trying to figure out this amp. So far regardless of the tubes I have used it is brighter than I expected. I realize my Q701's are bright sounding but I don't find it as pronounced with either my E17 or Sansui AU-717 integrated amp. I also find the sound a touch bright with my HE-400's but obviously not as much as the AKG's. So far I have tried the stock tubes, the Russians, the Siemens & GE's. I have a set of Mullards on the way as my last set didn't make it through shipping. I am hoping the Mullards tone it down some & give me the lush sound I am looking for. How does everyone else find the sound signature of the Pan Am overall?


----------



## themad

I don't hear it as bright at all.
  
 Are you using the same source and DAC with all the amps you tried?
 Did you test the PanAm right after you turned it on or you had been listening for some time before testing it?
  
 I've noticed the PanAm seems to provide a smoother/lusher sound after warming up for like 10-15 minutes.


----------



## TontonJoK

The Russian tubes are a little more agressives than the CV 4010 in my set up

The 701's are on the dry side as you already know, not sure you'll change the AKG signature that much


----------



## Fishwater

themad said:


> I don't hear it as bright at all.
> 
> Are you using the same source and DAC with all the amps you tried?
> Did you test the PanAm right after you turned it on or you had been listening for some time before testing it?
> ...



I can't use a different DAC between sources because I'm using the Pan Am for listening or the E17 or my Sansui with my Bell Canto DAC. I did just order the Ifi Nano DSD so I can try that between the source & have at least one item be a constant. I do wait for the Pan Am to warm up before I do any critical listening. 




tontonjok said:


> The Russian tubes are a little more agressives than the CV 4010 in my set up
> 
> The 701's are on the dry side as you already know, not sure you'll change the AKG signature that much



Agreed, AKG's just have that sound, I record concerts as a hobby & have used AKG microphones for years, on another note it's funny how their house sound carries over to all of their products. I was just hoping some warm tubes would dial it back a notch but perhaps I am just hearing something about the Pan Am that I don't like? Any other tube amps I have used in my main system have always been warmer & lusher than the Pan Am.


----------



## TontonJoK

If the pan am pairs well with audeze signature (mediums and lows with dark treble) not sure about the Akg (happy treble)

Might be wrong tho

The 2 headphones are very different


----------



## koolas

fishwater said:


> I did just order the Ifi Nano DSD so I can try that between the source & have at least one item be a constant.




I can tell you straight away - Good choice! iDSD + Pan Am is really descent combo. While the built-in DAC in Pan Am is quite good (better than what you would get in your laptop), by upgrading to iDSD you get really neat sound. iDSD is a beautiful DAC, and it's solid state, then Pan Am adds this tube niceness and warmth of transistor output stage. You can get different results by setting iDSD volume knob at different levels. I use Sylvania tubes, and I really love them, but when input is 100% volume from iDSD it's slightly too tubey, so I turn Pan Am volume to 100% and I set 40% on iDSD, and I get really nice warm controlled sound. These two guys: Pan Am and iDSD - they seem like they were built for each other. And the Sylvania tubes is the best upgrade I got for my Pan Am. They not only sound great, but also glow beautifully in the dark (See photos I posted before).


----------



## Fishwater

koolas said:


> I can tell you straight away - Good choice! iDSD + Pan Am is really descent combo. While the built-in DAC in Pan Am is quite good (better than what you would get in your laptop), by upgrading to iDSD you get really neat sound. iDSD is a beautiful DAC, and it's solid state, then Pan Am adds this tube niceness and warmth of transistor output stage. You can get different results by setting iDSD volume knob at different levels. I use Sylvania tubes, and I really love them, but when input is 100% volume from iDSD it's slightly too tubey, so I turn Pan Am volume to 100% and I set 40% on iDSD, and I get really nice warm controlled sound. These two guys: Pan Am and iDSD - they seem like they were built for each other. And the Sylvania tubes is the best upgrade I got for my Pan Am. They not only sound great, but also glow beautifully in the dark (See photos I posted before).





koolas said:


> I can tell you straight away - Good choice! iDSD + Pan Am is really descent combo. While the built-in DAC in Pan Am is quite good (better than what you would get in your laptop), by upgrading to iDSD you get really neat sound. iDSD is a beautiful DAC, and it's solid state, then Pan Am adds this tube niceness and warmth of transistor output stage. You can get different results by setting iDSD volume knob at different levels. I use Sylvania tubes, and I really love them, but when input is 100% volume from iDSD it's slightly too tubey, so I turn Pan Am volume to 100% and I set 40% on iDSD, and I get really nice warm controlled sound. These two guys: Pan Am and iDSD - they seem like they were built for each other. And the Sylvania tubes is the best upgrade I got for my Pan Am. They not only sound great, but also glow beautifully in the dark (See photos I posted before).



I read all of your comments in the iDSD thread & it was part of the reason for me choosing the Ifi. I also appreciated the participation from Ifi audio in the thread, they really seem to have a good handle on DSD. I recorded in DSD for a few years so I am excited to hear the Nano. What always impressed me on my recordings in DSD is the natural openness & airy sound quality that I don't get when I record in 24 bit so I am excited to hear my recordings in native DSD over headphones. Which Sylvania tubes do you have? How would you describe them vs other tubes?




tontonjok said:


> If the pan am pairs well with audeze signature (mediums and lows with dark treble) not sure about the Akg (happy treble)
> 
> Might be wrong tho
> 
> The 2 headphones are very different



I agree about the treble on the AKG's which is why I also just picked up a pair of HE-400's. I don't know how they compare to the LCD's but so far I really like them.


----------



## koolas

These Sylvania:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Quad-Sylvania-NOS-NIB-JAN-CHS-6AK5W-6J1-EF95-tubes-1942-Little-Dot-/171040444372

Stock tubes seem to be rough, if compared to Mullards or Sylvania. Mullards do exagerated mids, so they are great for metal. Sylvania are super precise in whole range from lower to upper end, though treble feel gently distorted at times so you get that tubey flavour.


----------



## Fishwater

Thank you, I ordered a pair of the Slyvania's to try although I'm close to spending almost half of what I spent on the amp in tubes. Oh well, that's the fun of the hobby.


----------



## TontonJoK

I'm interested in having your comparison with the Russians tubes


----------



## Fishwater

I felt the Russians were to harsh & bright with the AKG's but have not re listened to them with the HE-400's I found them to be a pretty aggressive sound signature with some peaks that really grated on me but it's possible the HE-400's may smooth them out a bit.


----------



## TontonJoK

I have the russians tubes also and with the lcd2's the slight aggressive presentation pairs well with the phones

The Mullard cv 4010 are good but just a litlle to smooth 
The siemens lack bass slams and low end in general

I'd like to know how the sylvanias sound (treble medium and bass) in comparison 
Thanks


----------



## GarySaville

fishwater said:


> I'm trying to figure out this amp. So far regardless of the tubes I have used it is brighter than I expected. I realize my Q701's are bright sounding but I don't find it as pronounced with either my E17 or Sansui AU-717 integrated amp. I also find the sound a touch bright with my HE-400's but obviously not as much as the AKG's. So far I have tried the stock tubes, the Russians, the Siemens & GE's. I have a set of Mullards on the way as my last set didn't make it through shipping. I am hoping the Mullards tone it down some & give me the lush sound I am looking for. How does everyone else find the sound signature of the Pan Am overall?


 
 I had exactly the same impression at first with my Heir Audio 8.A IEMs. The amp was too bright with the stock tubes. The Mullards changed that. The bass is excellent, clear, and full, while the highs are slightly more subdued, in a pleasing way. If you find the unit too bright, the Mullards may be the remedy you need. It did take a week or two for the tubes to open up. Now, that I've been running them for around 6 months several days a week, I am very satisfied with the PanAm. I find it much more pleasing to listen too than my Hifi-M8.


----------



## TontonJoK

For hifiman he 400 or Akg 701 I would choose Mullards cv 4010 m8100

For audeze lcd 2.2 the Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV


----------



## desertstrike

what about for hd600?


----------



## TontonJoK

depends on what part you want to highlight

I suggest Mullards CV 4010 too for the bass sub bass, silky mediums and smooth highs


----------



## BeyerMonster

Anyone give this a whirl with a self-wired pack of AA's? Curious to see how it sounds since I can probably rustle some up for cheap. Current Passport pricing is WAY higher than my curiosity level.
  
 Quote:


ahhui90 said:


> I don't see the need for AA batteries, try using Astro external battery packs which outputs 12 volts.


 
 Which Astro did you end up using? How long did it last on one full charge? From some minimal browsing it sounded like some Astros won't output power while charging. That seems kinda inconvenient for non-portable usage.


----------



## BattousaiX26

Anyone tried tall tubes on pan am? I saw a post stating that a 6dt6 will run on ef95 mode on pan am.


----------



## BeyerMonster

Looking to pick up Mullard/Voshkods if possible.
Exactly what should I look for in selecting a source for tubes? I've seen a few posts where people have ordered matched tubes only to find that they aren't well matched at all. Definitely don't plan on buying enough tubes to warrant my own matcher.
  
Can anyone recommend a source for matched tubes?  (PM is fine too)
  
 Found this thread right after I posted, of course:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide#post_7625995
  
 *EDIT* Linked Little Dot Rolling Guide.


----------



## TontonJoK

On ebay you can find lots of them

Got mine from Ukraine 3 weeks ago and are perfectly matched and are great

If Ukraine sounds like problems because of what you see on tv mine took less than 2 weeks to get here


----------



## TontonJoK

I paid 20 $ total for the matched tubes + shipping


48 Jul-75 la1 : 6,8 S1 : 5,1
64 Jul-75 la1 : 6,8 S1 : 5,1

were 100% is: Ia = 7.35mA, S = 5.15 mA

Tested on L3-3 tube tester (Un=6.3V, Ua=120V, Uc2= 120V)


----------



## shigzeo

tontonjok said:


> I paid 20 $ total for the matched tubes + shipping
> 
> 
> 48 Jul-75 la1 : 6,8 S1 : 5,1
> ...


 
 PRetty damn good deal.


----------



## pieman3141

Out of curiosity, if I were to use the Gateway and Passport in a chain (ie. Gateway > Passport > Pan Am) would that be OK? Basically, the Passport would be constantly charging (and discharging if in use). I assume that the battery life might suffer a bit over time, but that's not something I really worry about.


----------



## TontonJoK

That's why I only have the passport

Disconnect the gateway with it's on off button when passport is charged ?

The gateway won't be worth having this way tho

When I plug the passport with the wall wart the light turns green when charged, don't know how it will work if the 3 elements are plugged together


----------



## R Scott Ireland

pieman3141 said:


> Out of curiosity, if I were to use the Gateway and Passport in a chain (ie. Gateway > Passport > Pan Am) would that be OK? Basically, the Passport would be constantly charging (and discharging if in use). I assume that the battery life might suffer a bit over time, but that's not something I really worry about.


 
  
 It's probably OK, but I don't think you need the Gateway.  I've plugged the wallwart into the Passport while continuing to use the Pan Am with no problems.


----------



## Rossliew

Hey guys, anyone pairing the Pan Am with the LCD-XC? Wondering if it's powerful enough to drive it well...


----------



## R Scott Ireland

rossliew said:


> Hey guys, anyone pairing the Pan Am with the LCD-XC? Wondering if it's powerful enough to drive it well...


 
  
 Can't speak to the XC's, but the Pan Am drives my LCD-3's beautifully. Plenty of power to spare.
  
 In fact, I just got a Chord Hugo, and while the LCD-3's sound really good directly out of it, they sound better when the Hugo is fed through the Pan Am with it's extra power. That combo sounded wonderful.
  
 To give some comparison, I also fed the Hugo through my beloved Rx-Mk3-B+ and this amp, powerful though it is, added nothing - the sound was better directly from the Hugo amp.


----------



## Rossliew

r scott ireland said:


> Can't speak to the XC's, but the Pan Am drives my LCD-3's beautifully. Plenty of power to spare.
> 
> In fact, I just got a Chord Hugo, and while the LCD-3's sound really good directly out of it, they sound better when the Hugo is fed through the Pan Am with it's extra power. That combo sounded wonderful.
> 
> To give some comparison, I also fed the Hugo through my beloved Rx-Mk3-B+ and this amp, powerful though it is, added nothing - the sound was better directly from the Hugo amp.


 
 As i understand the XCs should be more sensitive than the 3s, hence, theoretically, the Pan Am should be able to drive the XCs well (?)
  
 How would you describe the Hugo's sound?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

rossliew said:


> As i understand the XCs should be more sensitive than the 3s, hence, theoretically, the Pan Am should be able to drive the XCs well (?)
> 
> How would you describe the Hugo's sound?


 
  
 I would assume that the XC's should drive well, just haven't heard them directly myself.
  
 Ah, the Hugo.  Not sure where to begin. Mind you, it's only been a couple of days with a couple of headphones and amp combos (haven't even had time to feed it through the Liquid Glass yet), but it's clear to me that this has upped my sound game to a new level.
  
 I mostly listen to Redbook material (FLAC files ripped from a large CD collection of classical music). With the Hugo, I am now hearing details, air, presence and weight that I have never heard before. The music is, for lack of a better description, more "alive".


----------



## shigzeo

The Pan Am does a wonderful job with the X and XC. In fact, it has great power with the 3, too, as long as you are not bleeding your ears. And, the Hugo is awesome.


----------



## Rossliew

shigzeo said:


> The Pan Am does a wonderful job with the X and XC. In fact, it has great power with the 3, too, as long as you are not bleeding your ears. And, the Hugo is awesome.




I was always under the impression that the Pan Am was more suitable for high impedance cans. Would this pairing be good for metal?


----------



## TontonJoK

Audeze official web site sells the pan am, and it pairs perfectly well with all lcd's
I also heard alo audio was using a lcd 2 during the product development

The pan am has a high and low gain setting


----------



## Rossliew

tontonjok said:


> Audeze official web site sells the pan am, and it pairs perfectly well with all lcd's
> I also heard alo audio was using a lcd 2 during the product development
> 
> The pan am has a high and low gain setting




Fair point. The Pan Am is an affordable amp and won't burn a hole in the pocket


----------



## shigzeo

rossliew said:


> I was always under the impression that the Pan Am was more suitable for high impedance cans. Would this pairing be good for metal?


 
 Its best resolution is with hi-ohm cans, but it pairs nicely with LCD-3 and 2. Loss of signal quality isn't horrible. But the pairing of the stock Pan Am sound with LCD headphones is very nice. What the Pan Am isn't that great at is earphones and balanced armatures. Most headphones it does very well indeed.


----------



## Rossliew

shigzeo said:


> Its best resolution is with hi-ohm cans, but it pairs nicely with LCD-3 and 2. Loss of signal quality isn't horrible. But the pairing of the stock Pan Am sound with LCD headphones is very nice. What the Pan Am isn't that great at is earphones and balanced armatures. Most headphones it does very well indeed.




Many thanks for the note, Shigzeo.


----------



## desertstrike

guys, are these the mullard that your are talking abt?
  
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=35904071499


----------



## TontonJoK

Those tubes are not Mullard's, look like Russian's


----------



## desertstrike

hmmm..... so mullard > russian?


----------



## TontonJoK




----------



## TontonJoK

edited


----------



## TontonJoK

Both are good

I prefer the Voskhod but you might prefer the Mullards 

My Russian tubes have more details than the Mullards and I prefer their treble presentation


----------



## desertstrike

russian == voskhod?


----------



## desertstrike

http://s.taobao.com/search?q=EF95&s_from=newHeader&ssid=s5-e&search_type=item&sourceId=tb.item
  
 bro, how to choose? there are so many....


----------



## TontonJoK

Try to find a matched pair of Mullards or Voskhod 

On ebay it's easy to find 
The russians tubes cost on average 25 $ a matched pair
The Mullards around 40 $

I don't speak Chinese or any Asian language and can't rely on Google traduction to check about your link


----------



## BeyerMonster

FWIW, I've got a pair of matched Voshkods for sale:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/720355/matched-pair-russian-military-tubes-e95f-ef95-ef905-6f32-tesla-6ak7-5654-6096-dp61-pm05-m8100


----------



## desertstrike

Whats the difference between mullards and Voshkods?


----------



## desertstrike

Mullards is british and Voshkods is russian?


----------



## TontonJoK

yes


----------



## BeyerMonster

DesertStrike, you might want to just go read these first. I imagine most of your questions will be answered in one of these(most of mine were):
 http://www.headfonia.com/high-octane-fuel-for-the-pan-am-a-tube-rollers-notes/
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide#post_7625993


----------



## palchiu

desertstrike said:


> http://s.taobao.com/search?q=EF95&s_from=newHeader&ssid=s5-e&search_type=item&sourceId=tb.item
> 
> bro, how to choose? there are so many....


 

 You can try some Philips Military 5654.


----------



## desertstrike

thanks BMonster and palchiu!


----------



## desertstrike

beyermonster said:


> DesertStrike, you might want to just go read these first. I imagine most of your questions will be answered in one of these(most of mine were):
> http://www.headfonia.com/high-octane-fuel-for-the-pan-am-a-tube-rollers-notes/
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide#post_7625993


 
  
 based on ur guide, this should be the mullards: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=36366662088
  
 and this should be the Voshkods: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=1152590163


----------



## koolas

Besides me, anyone using Sylvania? I remember there was someone asking for them and I think he ordered them. I wonder what are his thoughts.


----------



## koolas

rossliew said:


> Hey guys, anyone pairing the Pan Am with the LCD-XC? Wondering if it's powerful enough to drive it well...



I think Pan Am has plenty of power, though with stock tubes sound might get ugly and distorted if more power is required. You may want to get better tubes. People here advise Mullards, and I also think they are great sounding tubes, but they hard clip at very high volumes. Now I use Sylvania and while didn't experience any hard clipping I have noticed some distortion at high end. I use Alpha Dogs, which are 55 Ohm and 98 dB/mW, while LCD-XC are 22 Ohm and 95 dB/mW. So since both have same sensitivity, the difference is in voltage required to drive them at same volume, and since Alpha Dogs are twice the impedance they need twice as high voltage, and they draw half as much current. The question could be if Pan Am can provide twice as much current as it provides to Alpha Dogs.


----------



## BattousaiX26

tontonjok said:


>


 
 What is the difference between the two mullards?


----------



## TontonJoK

Its exactly the same tubes, could be made in different factories in England 
On top they were made for the army with no Mullard logo printed but they are genuine and sound awesome


----------



## desertstrike

I have finally got my Russian tubes! on first trying (without burned in yet), it feels more tube than my default Chinese tubes!
 Instrument separation is much better! bass feels more punch, definitely prefer this over default tube!
 but the problem is, the marking on the tube has faded... how can i be sure that it is Russian tube?


----------



## TontonJoK

show a picture of the tubes and the seller link, 
Don't worry that much It costs nothing to print well a tube so I guess a fake one would show a nice permanent logo


----------



## TontonJoK

And the price you paid in $


----------



## desertstrike




----------



## ahhui90

my russian tubes looks the same as yours, don't worry


----------



## desertstrike

Thanks ah hui! How long do u burned it in?


----------



## desertstrike

This is the chinese tube, they all look so similiar :O


----------



## BattousaiX26

To those guys using an external DAC in pan am, which one do you use and how does it compare to the built in DAC of the pan am?


----------



## ahhui90

i have no idea.. been using it for a long time. btw i bought my russian tubes for only $15


----------



## TontonJoK

Looks like mine too, hard to see the writing just like yours
As long as you get a better sound than the default Chinese tubes, I guess it' all good


----------



## desertstrike

Thats right bro, now i am thinking of getting mullards to try haha


----------



## BattousaiX26

desertstrike said:


> Thats right bro, now i am thinking of getting mullards to try haha


 
 Get mullards you will not be disappointed especially if you really like warm sound


----------



## desertstrike

Yeap, going to order from tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=14&products_id=521 , they are back in business!


----------



## BeyerMonster

Got my Voshkods from the Ukraine off EBay in a matched quad. I was thinking I could sell the other pair and pass on the savings, but nobody seems interested so I guess I've got myself a backup pair.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

battousaix26 said:


> Get mullards you will not be disappointed especially if you really like warm sound


 
  
 +1.  You should try a pair. They are a great complement/counterpoint to the brighter Russian tubes.


----------



## koolas

koolas said:


> Besides me, anyone using Sylvania? I remember there was someone asking for them and I think he ordered them. I wonder what are his thoughts.




No response?


----------



## TontonJoK

I asked to have a quick comparison with Mullards or Voskhod 
Still interested to know their strong points 
but since I'm in love with the sound I get with the Russian tubes, I didn't bother


----------



## koolas

In case anyone wondered, Pan Am pairs very well with NAD PP2 2i. Just listening to some records 

Also it did pair very well with my EQ. Is there anything that Pan Am would not pair well?


----------



## BattousaiX26

koolas said:


> In case anyone wondered, Pan Am pairs very well with NAD PP2 2i. Just listening to some records
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I had demo the HD800 couple of times with the Pan Am. Though it sounds good but its not spectacular unlike the pairing with the LCD-2. Pan Am is not able to tame the highs of the HD 800.


----------



## GarySaville

r scott ireland said:


> +1.  You should try a pair. They are a great complement/counterpoint to the brighter Russian tubes.


 
 I couldn't agree more. A few weeks back I visited a local audiophile shop in Vancouver and tested some headphones out on a PanAm. I didn't like the sound. I A/B'd with my headphones (Heir 8.A) and my headphones sounded weak too!... The odd thing was that the PanAm is my main amp at home. Then I realized they were using stock tubes in the store's PanAm. The difference is huge. The Mullards add a tremendous depth to the bass in comparison to the stock tubes.


----------



## Uniquexme

PanAm match better with LCD-3 or LCD-X? This PanAm will be my 1st tube amp to go with my 1st Audeze. It's really hard to make choices for this hobby. Anyone can give some recommendation?


----------



## koolas

battousaix26 said:


> I had demo the HD800 couple of times with the Pan Am. Though it sounds good but its not spectacular unlike the pairing with the LCD-2. Pan Am is not able to tame the highs of the HD 800.




It might be true, as I read everywhere on head-fi that HD800 are bright-ish. I don't have HD800 (yet..or ever..dunno), however I can say I can feel the difference in sound signature between different tubes. I tried three types, and with my latest choice (Sylvania) Pan Am sounds very strong in HF range, so HD800 would probably lack body if used without EQ. But If you switched to Mullards, then maybe situation would change? They are much darker and they sound very forward. I think best match for Mullards could be some Grados or AKG. But for HD800, I dunno... I would probably stay with Sylvania and EQ in S/W maybe...

What do you think? Maybe there is some other tube (that I haven't tried yet) that would make HD800 sing?


----------



## BattousaiX26

koolas said:


> It might be true, as I read everywhere on head-fi that HD800 are bright-ish. I don't have HD800 (yet..or ever..dunno), however I can say I can feel the difference in sound signature between different tubes. I tried three types, and with my latest choice (Sylvania) Pan Am sounds very strong in HF range, so HD800 would probably lack body if used without EQ. But If you switched to Mullards, then maybe situation would change? They are much darker and they sound very forward. I think best match for Mullards could be some Grados or AKG. But for HD800, I dunno... I would probably stay with Sylvania and EQ in S/W maybe...
> 
> What do you think? Maybe there is some other tube (that I haven't tried yet) that would make HD800 sing?


 
 I used RTC 5654, Mullards CV4010 and Siemens when I had demo the HD800. The siemens a bit smooth in highs but they are still there and lacks dynamics and bass. The RTC is a little too bright for the HD800. The Mullards although warmer than the two, the highs are still edgy. What surprised me also is that even though Mullards has less treble than the Siemens, I find that Siemens is more pleasant with HD 800 and Mullards will be more fatiguing to listen to.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

uniquexme said:


> PanAm match better with LCD-3 or LCD-X? This PanAm will be my 1st tube amp to go with my 1st Audeze. It's really hard to make choices for this hobby. Anyone can give some recommendation?




I have both, and they are each excellent with the Pan Am. The LCD-3 is, characteristically, slightly warmer in sound signature, but the difference is subtle.


----------



## Uniquexme

r scott ireland said:


> I have both, and they are each excellent with the Pan Am. The LCD-3 is, characteristically, slightly warmer in sound signature, but the difference is subtle.




If I listen mainly to vocal, which would u recommend?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

uniquexme said:


> If I listen mainly to vocal, which would u recommend?


 
  
 Both would be very good.  I suggest you try to audition each of them and see which sound signature you prefer. The newer LCD-3 will be different from mine anyway (I have the "classic", non-fazored model).


----------



## tuamtuem

I'm using Vali+Modi with MS2is now. however, I will receive LCD2.2 soon. I like a tiny DAC/AMP as I always move from one place to another place. Is it worth upgrading to Pan am+Gateway? There is a discount on Alo website. 
  
 My original thought is that I would go for LYR2+Bifrost. But if Panam+Gateway can give me the better performance, I will go of it.


----------



## koolas

Some say Lyr has more raw power. I dunno about Lyr, but I know that Pan Am cannot fully power my Alpha Dogs, i.e. at 3 o'clock I start hearing distortions with louder, bassier tunes, while this does not happen when I connect Alphas to Behringer (then I can actually loose hearing, and still no distortion).

I think it might have something to do with the tubes, however with Mullards this problem was bigger and with my current Sylvania it's lesser. The stock tubes were louder, and I am not sure about if they distorted or not. It could be that you can get better tubes for Lyr, and thus better SQ.


----------



## themad

koolas said:


> Some say Lyr has more raw power. I dunno about Lyr, but I know that Pan Am cannot fully power my Alpha Dogs, i.e. at 3 o'clock I start hearing distortions with louder, bassier tunes, while this does not happen when I connect Alphas to Behringer (then I can actually loose hearing, and still no distortion).
> 
> I think it might have something to do with the tubes, however with Mullards this problem was bigger and with my current Sylvania it's lesser. The stock tubes were louder, and I am not sure about if they distorted or not. It could be that you can get better tubes for Lyr, and thus better SQ.


 
  
  Really? That's odd. Does this happen at high gain?
  
  From my experience, the Pan Am has more than enough power to drive both the HiFiMAN HE-500 and the Beyerdynamic T1, for example. And I always used medium gain when driving those headphones.


----------



## koolas

themad said:


> Really? That's odd. Does this happen at high gain?
> 
> From my experience, the Pan Am has more than enough power to drive both the HiFiMAN HE-500 and the Beyerdynamic T1, for example. And I always used medium gain when driving those headphones.




Nope, it happens at low gain, and volume set to 3 o'clock. I EQ lower end, but signal itself is not distorted, it's the Pan Am adding the distortion.

Also, at 3 o'clock Alpha Dogs are very loud, so maybe for some people it is too loud...


----------



## themad

koolas said:


> Nope, it happens at low gain, and volume set to 3 o'clock. I EQ lower end, but signal itself is not distorted, it's the Pan Am adding the distortion.
> 
> Also, at 3 o'clock Alpha Dogs are very loud, so maybe for some people it is too loud...


 
  
  Got it.
  I have never listened to the Pan Am with volume past 3 o'clock. I'll do it and post back in case I notice something weird.
  
  Did you try using medium or high gain and did you notice distortion around the same loudness (before 3 o'clock, of course)? Because maybe it is the pot? I know the RxMK3B+ doesn't seem to go louder after 3 in the pot.
  
  In any case I use an amp where I need to put the volume up to 3 I simply consider it's underpowered and turn the gain switch (if there is one). But that's me and I understand a good amp should be able to put out power from min to max of the volume pot.


----------



## desertstrike

is the pan am a pre-amp?


----------



## koolas

themad said:


> Got it.
> I have never listened to the Pan Am with volume past 3 o'clock. I'll do it and post back in case I notice something weird.
> 
> Did you try using medium or high gain and did you notice distortion around the same loudness (before 3 o'clock, of course)? Because maybe it is the pot? I know the RxMK3B+ doesn't seem to go louder after 3 in the pot.
> ...




If I turn HI gain it starts distorting at 12 o'clock.


----------



## hardbop

I finally pulled the trigger on the Pan Am, since ALO has a sale going on their site.
  
 Got the Pan Am and the Passport for $500 and I can hardly wait to plug my LCD-2's into it next week.


----------



## TontonJoK

Don't forget to change the stock Chinese tubes with others

And enjoy !!

really love this amp


----------



## hardbop

The only tubes that ALO had in stock were the French Radiotechnique.
  
 Is there another source for compatible tubes handy?


----------



## TontonJoK

Ebay is the place to go


----------



## TontonJoK

I sent you a pm with a link, I didn't get mine from this seller, it has a very good reputation on ebay
The tubes are well matched and way better than stock Chinese


----------



## hardbop

Thanks!
  
 I bought a couple others, too. Since this is my first tube rolling experience, might as well roll all the tubes.


----------



## TontonJoK

I saw the link is over now nice choice


----------



## TontonJoK

Sorry I made a mistake with the link I gave :eek:

You need a tube with 7 pins and I see 8 on the link I sent

If you can't cancel the order I will send you for free a pair of matched Mullard CV4010 I have in stock

So confused


----------



## nuss

I currently have Bose Companion 5's (which lets be honest are pretty awful) .  I also have some JH11's with a port rig.   If i buy the pan am for my laptop can i connect my IEMs to the 3.5mm, and by bose companions to the other output (and then line in on the speakers)??
  
 Would there be an improvement in the sound qual of the bose speakers?


----------



## Stormfriend

I've also joined the PanAm owners club!  I saw the sale and decided to risk it even though I've seen mixed reviews with the HD800s.  I got the Passport as well and they should be arriving on Monday.  I originally ordered the black version but apparently that's discontinued, so I ended up getting the silver version.
  
 ALO only had the Radiotechnique tubes available as optional extras, so I've bought those in case they turn out okay (they were cheap enough), but I'll try and source some Mullards too as those work best in my Earmax.


----------



## grizzlybeast

So I think I am in a pickle here. I got the pan am in. I live in Portland so i was able to just go and pick it up. 

Well just like previous comments the thing distorts on the T50 drivers. This doesn't happen on low gain as fast as high gain. I noticed it as soon as I plugged my ZMF x Vibros. Well I want to return it/sell it buttttttt.... This bass is incredibly tight and textured and My Voshkods haven't even arrived yet! Stock sounds really good. I can't recall an amp having better bass than this. It's either keep it and run a line out from the hp out into an emotiva mini on low gain, or just get a lyr 2 now and be stuck without a good dac under 250 to give me rich tight bass.

Man what a freaking bummer. Ideal sound but distorted. I had this issue with the island but even worse.


----------



## BattousaiX26

Anyone here uses iDAC for the pan am? Is iDAC better than pan am built in dac?


----------



## TontonJoK

grizzlybeast said:


> So I think I am in a pickle here. I got the pan am in. I live in Portland so i was able to just go and pick it up.
> 
> Well just like previous comments the thing distorts on the T50 drivers. This doesn't happen on low gain as fast as high gain. I noticed it as soon as I plugged my ZMF x Vibros. Well I want to return it/sell it buttttttt.... This bass is incredibly tight and textured and My Voshkods haven't even arrived yet! Stock sounds really good. I can't recall an amp having better bass than this. It's either keep it and run a line out from the hp out into an emotiva mini on low gain, or just get a lyr 2 now and be stuck without a good dac under 250 to give me rich tight bass.
> 
> Man what a freaking bummer. Ideal sound but distorted. I had this issue with the island but even worse.





If you like the bass with the stock tubes, you'll love them with the Voshkods 

To get the sound distorted you should listen to a very high level ??
I don't get any distortion with my lcd2, my ears are bleeding before


----------



## grizzlybeast

thanks!

It was my source and I have found it loud enough now.


----------



## koolas

battousaix26 said:


> Anyone here uses iDAC for the pan am? Is iDAC better than pan am built in dac?




Could be... But iDSD nano certainly is


----------



## koolas

grizzlybeast said:


> So I think I am in a pickle here. I got the pan am in. I live in Portland so i was able to just go and pick it up.
> 
> Well just like previous comments the thing distorts on the T50 drivers. This doesn't happen on low gain as fast as high gain. I noticed it as soon as I plugged my ZMF x Vibros. Well I want to return it/sell it buttttttt.... This bass is incredibly tight and textured and My Voshkods haven't even arrived yet! Stock sounds really good. I can't recall an amp having better bass than this. It's either keep it and run a line out from the hp out into an emotiva mini on low gain, or just get a lyr 2 now and be stuck without a good dac under 250 to give me rich tight bass.
> 
> Man what a freaking bummer. Ideal sound but distorted. I had this issue with the island but even worse.





I highly recommend get those:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Sylvania-NOS-NIB-JAN-CHS-6AK5W-6J1-EF95-tubes-1942-Little-Dot-/201101819304?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2ed29a3da8

They don't distort that much, you can drive T50 drivers up to really huge amount of bass, and also these tubes extremely improve stability of Pan Am, which results in detailed mids, tight bass, and only slight distortion in high freq. The distortion starts to appear at 3 o'clock when I boost bass to reach almost 0dB, but even then it's still a pleasure to listen (if loosing hearing can be called pleasure) 

BTW I am curious how ZMF x Vibros would compare to Alpha Dogs. They are on Alpha pads, yes?


----------



## grizzlybeast

Thanx I'll look into it!

AD = lean, clean,fast,open
ZMF x VIBRO = lush, warm, punchy


----------



## hardbop

I have my PanAm and about 24 hours of time with the stock tubes (do they have a name?) and they are already a beautiful match with my LCD-2's.
  
  
  
 I was looking into transportation options for it and it's Passport buddy and I didn't realize that the Carry On from ALO's website was for that purpose. The pouches looked too small, but the PanAm was also smaller than I was expecting, even with everyone saying how small it is.
  
 Does anyone have the Carry On? Any other cases for them? I might go the Pelican route and transport them with my Audeze's, but I think I'd rather put the PanAm/Passport/tubes in a case and that case in another bag that I usually carry.


----------



## x RELIC x

Pan Am is being phased out. 

From ALO:

*"Thank you for your e-mail. 

We are phasing out the PanAm, therefore we will not be restocking the PanAm in any colors. 

New development for products are always in the works, however a PanAm replacement is not in the immediate future.

Sorry for the inconvenience. Please let us know if you have any other questions and we'd gladly help. 

Best regards, "*


----------



## hardbop

I wonder why. The amp is great and seems popular enough.
  
 I also wonder what they're cooking up next.


----------



## x RELIC x

hardbop said:


> I wonder why. The amp is great and seems popular enough.
> 
> I also wonder what their cooking up next.




Both very good questions.


----------



## nuss

Any idea why?  I was literally on the way to ordering one until i saw this?  not sure if i should try something else now...?


----------



## x RELIC x

nuss said:


> Any idea why?  I was literally on the way to ordering one until i saw this?  not sure if i should try something else now...?




Dunno why. They've moved on from some of their other portables and replaced with newer versions, but I don't know if this is the case here. 

I would grab one while you can if you want one. It's a great little amp that sounds very nice (especially with Audeze cans).


----------



## koolas

I would think they must have had trouble with this product. I dunno, mine works fine, I have no issues with it. Maybe its production cost made it less profitable. They don't really have any new version or anything that would replace it... They made it easier for one who were thinking of buying one or fireflies, now you have to go with fireflies... which is not such a bad choice, but tubes are more expensive...


----------



## x RELIC x

koolas said:


> I would think they must have had trouble with this product. I dunno, mine works fine, I have no issues with it. Maybe its production cost made it less profitable. They don't really have any new version or anything that would replace it... They made it easier for one who were thinking of buying one or fireflies, now you have to go with fireflies... which is not such a bad choice, but tubes are more expensive...




Not to mention way less options for tubes on the WA7.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

x relic x said:


> Dunno why. They've moved on from some of their other portables and replaced with newer versions, but I don't know if this is the case here.
> 
> I would grab one while you can if you want one. It's a great little amp that sounds very nice (especially with Audeze cans).


 
  
 I already own one, and I like it so much that I've ordered another one, while they're still available, as a backup.


----------



## TontonJoK

Alo pan am for life 

It might become a collector

I don't understand why such a brilliant amp is getting out of the Alo audio line :mad: 

And I'm also very happy to have one


----------



## LFC_SL

The Pan Am was the first modular product for Alo. Any company always learn something from the first xyz concept, whether a success or failure.

That the Pan Am is being discontinued does not invalidate customers who bought in. And neither does it mean Alo have not taken something away from the Pan Am that will not have influenced the future product roadmap, whether the immediate plans or more far off in the years down the line.

Maybe the ideas will not live on in some manner. Perhaps Ken just feels differently now and there is no business or technical rationale.


----------



## Sound Eq

r scott ireland said:


> Can't speak to the XC's, but the Pan Am drives my LCD-3's beautifully. Plenty of power to spare.
> 
> In fact, I just got a Chord Hugo, and while the LCD-3's sound really good directly out of it, they sound better when the Hugo is fed through the Pan Am with it's extra power. That combo sounded wonderful.
> 
> To give some comparison, I also fed the Hugo through my beloved Rx-Mk3-B+ and this amp, powerful though it is, added nothing - the sound was better directly from the Hugo amp.


 
 can u really say the pan am is better for audeze than hugo, what did pan am add to audeze that the hugo didn't


----------



## R Scott Ireland

sound eq said:


> can u really say the pan am is better for audeze than hugo, what did pan am add to audeze that the hugo didn't




No, I can't claim that it is better. At the time I listened to it, it sounded a little better to me through the Pan Am. Maybe it was the tube coloration with the LCD-3's. I currently use the Hugo as a portable setup feeding my LCD-X's directly and I would be hard pressed to claim that anything I have sounds noticeably better. But then again I haven't spent time testing the Hugo with the GS-X mk2 or the Liquid Glass either, so maybe . . .


----------



## Sound Eq

r scott ireland said:


> No, I can't claim that it is better. At the time I listened to it, it sounded a little better to me through the Pan Am. Maybe it was the tube coloration with the LCD-3's. I currently use the Hugo as a portable setup feeding my LCD-X's directly and I would be hard pressed to claim that anything I have sounds noticeably better. But then again I haven't spent time testing the Hugo with the GS-X mk2 or the Liquid Glass either, so maybe . . .


 
 so which sounds better with the hugo lcd 3 or lcd2
  
 again is the pan am worth buying if u have the hugo


----------



## R Scott Ireland

sound eq said:


> so which sounds better with the hugo lcd 3 or lcd2
> 
> again is the pan am worth buying if u have the hugo




I don't have an LCD-2, but both the LCD-3 and LCD-X both sound excellent with the Hugo. I slightly prefer the LCD-X with it since I listen to almost all Classical.

Can't really say about whether you should get a Pan Am or not.


----------



## hardbop

I'm going into my third week with this little amp and I am still blown away by it.
  
 I just rolled in the Mullard tubes and I quite like them. They sound smooth, if a little sibilant and details are the best out of what I've heard so far.
  
 The RTC's were okay. Not enough bass impact and lacking in details. Highs are twinkly and they have pretty good sound staging.
  
 The stock tubes have great bass, warmth and good detail and it only had to sacrifice a little of the sound stage.
  
 I've been using one set each week, to burn them in a little and get a taste of what they can offer. I think I'll do the Voshkods next and I still have the Sylvanias and Telefunkens after that.


----------



## BattousaiX26

hardbop said:


> I'm going into my third week with this little amp and I am still blown away by it.
> 
> I just rolled in the Mullard tubes and I quite like them. They sound smooth, if a little sibilant and details are the best out of what I've heard so far.
> 
> ...


 
 I am surprised that you say RTC lacks bass impact. I think Mullard tubes are just a little bit bassy and RTC has just enough impact. I agree with the sound staging though


----------



## R Scott Ireland

battousaix26 said:


> I am surprised that you say RTC lacks bass impact. I think Mullard tubes are just a little bit bassy and RTC has just enough impact. I agree with the sound staging though


 
  
 I was just comparing the RTC's to the Telefunkens.  I like them both, but the Telefunken's, to my ears, had a bit more bass impact. I too found the RTC's a little light on bass, but otherwise I thought they were quite good.


----------



## BattousaiX26

r scott ireland said:


> I was just comparing the RTC's to the Telefunkens.  I like them both, but the Telefunken's, to my ears, had a bit more bass impact. I too found the RTC's a little light on bass, but otherwise I thought they were quite good.


 
 I see. I still haven't tried Telefunkens, I would like to but quite rare nowadays and a little expensive too. Can I ask where did you got yours?


----------



## TontonJoK

For bass impacts the russians tubes are for me the best 
The highs are also improved compared to mullards


----------



## R Scott Ireland

battousaix26 said:


> I see. I still haven't tried Telefunkens, I would like to but quite rare nowadays and a little expensive too. Can I ask where did you got yours?


 
  
 I bought mine on eBay from tubemuseum, although they don't have a listing for these tubes any longer.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

r scott ireland said:


> I bought mine on eBay from tubemuseum, although they don't have a listing for these tubes any longer.


 
  
 Oops, no eBay listing, but here are the same tubes I have available from the tubemuseum main website:
  
 http://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TFK-6AK5%2F5654


----------



## phren0logy

I was thinking about picking up one of these on sale to go with either the LCD-2 or LCD-X. Getting the PanAm and either one is at the very limit of a potential budget, so I was wondering if with the PamAm there's much difference between the two. I know the LCD-X is the better headphone, but is the PanAm good enough to appreciate the difference?


----------



## BattousaiX26

r scott ireland said:


> Oops, no eBay listing, but here are the same tubes I have available from the tubemuseum main website:
> 
> http://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TFK-6AK5%2F5654


 
 Thanks!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

phren0logy said:


> I was thinking about picking up one of these on sale to go with either the LCD-2 or LCD-X. Getting the PanAm and either one is at the very limit of a potential budget, so I was wondering if with the PamAm there's much difference between the two. I know the LCD-X is the better headphone, but is the PanAm good enough to appreciate the difference?


 
  
 I've never owned the LCD-2's, but the Pan Am is an excellent little amp that easily distinguishes the different characteristics of all of my headphones (including LCD-X; LCD-3; HD800; etc.).


----------



## phren0logy

Thanks very much for your response, it's helpful that you have a few headphones to try it with. If you would indulge me in one more question: does the Passport battery pack really make that much difference?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

phren0logy said:


> Thanks very much for your response, it's helpful that you have a few headphones to try it with. If you would indulge me in one more question: does the Passport battery pack really make that much difference?


 
  
 I'm not really sure.  I have always used it only with a Passport battery.  But since the Pan Am is now being discontinued, I just bought a Gateway unit (along with another Pan Am and Passport - that's how much I like this amp!).
  
 Anyway, I haven't had a chance to try out the Gateway yet.


----------



## Aikanaro

phren0logy said:


> Thanks very much for your response, it's helpful that you have a few headphones to try it with. If you would indulge me in one more question: does the Passport battery pack really make that much difference?


 
 the passport is great if you want to unplug and just lug around that passport around your home/office (or even outside really if you have the bag space for it). adds a bit of weight to the amp but all in all worth it imo.
  
 love how such a small transportable desktop amp brings to life even the top-tier headphones save for the really power-hungry orthos and planars. can anyone recommend tube upgrades please thanks


----------



## TontonJoK

Telefunken 6AK5/5654, Mullard CV 4010 or voshkod 6zh1p-ev


----------



## TontonJoK

Passport is great to get a black background


----------



## phren0logy

Any further updates since your order? If you have a moment to leave a few notes, I'd love to hear a comparison of the PanAm alone (no Passport / Gateway) and Passport vs. Gateway as the power supply.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

phren0logy said:


> Any further updates since your order? If you have a moment to leave a few notes, I'd love to hear a comparison of the PanAm alone (no Passport / Gateway) and Passport vs. Gateway as the power supply.


 
  
 Well . . . I've only had time for one listening/comparison session between the Gateway and the Passport.
  
 Frankly, I did not hear any difference between them.  Again, this is only one listening session.
  
 Others have indicated that the Passport is preferable with blacker background (lower noise floor).  I did not notice this using the LCD-X and Denon D7000 headphones. I fed the Gateway through a Furman power/line conditioner.
  
 By the way, you can't use the Pan Am "alone" - it needs a 12V power supply - so you either need the Gateway, or the Passport, or something else to supply power.


----------



## phren0logy

Thanks for the quick response. I suspect that if there is a difference between the Gateway and Passport I won't be able to hear it either.
  
 I am pretty sure you can plug the wall wart directly into the PanAm (instead of the Passport). ALO will allow you to order it by itself, without a Passport or Gateway. There are reviews that discuss a difference between the Gateway and wall wart, but they describe a difference between the Gateway and Passport, too. I am not sure how much of that is "golden ears" and how much of that is the power of autosuggestion. As an amp, it seems reasonable that there would be a difference, but it's interesting to note that when Audeze was selling the PanAM (before it was discontinued) they did not sell either the Passport or Gateway, just the lone amp/dac unit.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

phren0logy said:


> Thanks for the quick response. I suspect that if there is a difference between the Gateway and Passport I won't be able to hear it either.
> 
> I am pretty sure you can plug the wall wart directly into the PanAm (instead of the Passport). ALO will allow you to order it by itself, without a Passport or Gateway. There are reviews that discuss a difference between the Gateway and wall wart, but they describe a difference between the Gateway and Passport, too. I am not sure how much of that is "golden ears" and how much of that is the power of autosuggestion. As an amp, it seems reasonable that there would be a difference, but it's interesting to note that when Audeze was selling the PanAM (before it was discontinued) they did not sell either the Passport or Gateway, just the lone amp/dac unit.


 
 Ah so!  I never really thought about it before, but that makes sense.  The Pan Am just needs 12V DC, however it gets it. 
  
 Using A/C mains power in the chain generally does create the possibility of various kinds of noise (RFI; switching power supplies, etc.). But in this case I didn't notice any noise.


----------



## TontonJoK

I get some noise if I listen to pan am when charging the passport,
I use EU adaptator for 220 v type of plug
It's not all the time only once in a while like 1 or 2 times a mn

When not charging it's dead silent


----------



## JoeDoe

New toys!


----------



## TontonJoK

Nice !!
I see some Telefunken tubes ??


----------



## JoeDoe

Siemens actually!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

joedoe said:


> New toys!




Congrats!! Enjoy!


----------



## TontonJoK

Siemens are not my favorite, I have a pair too
The Russians tubes have more bass and sparkle imo


----------



## phren0logy

I got my PanAm yesterday, and got the Gateway and the French RTC tubes (the only ones in stock right now). I have some experience with higher-end speakers, but not much with headphones. I had a chance to hear the PanAm with the LCD-2, LCD-3, and LCD-X. Here at home, I am using them with my VModa M-80 and awaiting delivery of the Fidelio X1. Even with the humble M-80, the difference over my laptop's DAC and amp is very apparent (as it should be for the $$). As much as I enjoyed the Audeze sets, I can't really justify the cost right now but it's nice to know that the PanAm has plenty of room to grow with better equipment.
  
 So far, I'm very happy with the purchase. I still want to compare with and without the Gateway, but I didn't bother with the Passport as I don't plan on traveling with it and the comparisons of Passport and Gateway were not sufficiently compelling to get the Passport instead (as using it at a desk all day would be pretty brutal on a battery).
  
 I haven't run the tubes in too much, but for what it's worth, the French tubes do sound better out of the box than the stock tubes.


----------



## muah

I am using this instead of Passport to isolate AC from the DC input for Pan Am.

- See more at: http://www.ianker.com/product/79AN7905-BA#sthash.bjd8i2Io.dpuf>

cheaper and can use to charge other USB items whilst on the go. it is also very flat, easy to fit in a laptop bag.

have fun.


----------



## TontonJoK

Anker company makes some good replacement batteries for galaxy note 3, very impressed with the price

70$ on amazon uk for that battery


----------



## TontonJoK

So what is the best set of tubes for our amp ??

Ok for : Russian tubes, Mullards CV4010, Telefunken 6AK5W (never tried)
Not my taste : Siemens

I'd like to try some new tubes 
Do you know some others really good ???


----------



## JoeDoe

tontonjok said:


> So what is the best set of tubes for our amp ??
> 
> Ok for : Russian tubes, Mullards CV4010, Telefunken 6AK5W (never tried)
> Not my taste : Siemens
> ...


 
 Yugoslavia 6hm5 or Telefunken 6ak5


----------



## TontonJoK

Yugoslavia 6hm5 hard to find !! the tubes look cheap on the bay (at least the family)
For you it's worth trying ??

 I have some Mullard cv 131 from my LD mk2 do you think I can try ?
7 pins + the valve is just taller h34r:


----------



## JoeDoe

I think the Yugo is the best ban for your buck tube of this family there is.


----------



## TontonJoK

With Telefunken 6AK5W do I get the same bass as Russian or Mullard ?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tontonjok said:


> So what is the best set of tubes for our amp ??
> 
> Ok for : Russian tubes, Mullards CV4010, Telefunken 6AK5W (never tried)
> Not my taste : Siemens
> ...


 
  
 I've tried Cifte 6AK5's, and to my ears they are excellent.
  
 Bought them here:
  
 http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1068&osCsid=9d5d2d5712f88ebfffc767742ad42e7a


----------



## TontonJoK

thanks


----------



## JoeDoe

Got some NOS Sylvania 6HM5s in today. So far so good


----------



## TontonJoK

With this family of tube, do you still have around 8 h with the passport ?
The bass are good ??


----------



## TontonJoK

If you had to pick up just one set of tubes it would be ??


----------



## JoeDoe

tontonjok said:


> If you had to pick up just one set of tubes it would be ??


 
 At this point, it would be the Mullards, but I haven't heard the Voskhods (should arrive this weekP) nor the recently received Sylanvias and RTCs.


----------



## TontonJoK

I have Mullards, Siemens and my favorites the Voskhods

You'll like them


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tontonjok said:


> If you had to pick up just one set of tubes it would be ??




At this moment I would say the Telefunkens, but it's a tough choice. Voskhod's and Cifte's have both scored 9.5/10 on my personal rating system. Telefunkens 10/10 through the Hugo to the Pam Am (although I haven't yet tried the Russian tubes or the Cifte's through the Hugo first, so who knows, maybe they will sound just as good). 

I'm listening right now to Mahler 1 through the Cifte's and it's hard to imagine anything sounding significantly better than this. This with LCD-X phones.


----------



## TontonJoK

You are using the dac from Hugo and amplify with the pan am right ?

I'll get some telefunken first, and some yougoslavia to try this family of tall tubes (seem to glow nicely)

I wish I could try an amp such as Hugo but way to expensive for me


----------



## TontonJoK

r scott ireland said:


> At this moment I would say the Telefunkens, but it's a tough choice. Voskhod's and Cifte's have both scored 9.5/10 on my personal rating system. Telefunkens 10/10 .




What sounding quality would make the telefunken 0.5 point better ?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tontonjok said:


> You are using the dac from Hugo and amplify with the pan am right ?
> 
> I'll get some telefunken first, and some yougoslavia to try this family of tall tubes (seem to glow nicely)
> 
> I wish I could try an amp such as Hugo but way to expensive for me


 
 Yes - I feed the Hugo with a digital signal and then output from the Hugo through the Pan Am amplifier. It's actually a bit of double-amplification, but the sound is quite good.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tontonjok said:


> What sounding quality would make the telefunken 0.5 point better ?


 
  
 Not much difference - very subtle.  More like the overall feeling of instrument separation, detail and soundstage just appeals to me a bit more.


----------



## TontonJoK

IMO to output through the Pan Am amplifier is fine to get a very nice signal and tube sound 
To feed the hugo with a cheaper dac and only use the amplification would be something else


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tontonjok said:


> IMO to output through the Pan Am amplifier is fine to get a very nice signal and tube sound
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Hugo is an integrated DAC/Amp - the two functions are not separable.  So, you need to feed it a digital input and then the output is only available through the combined Hugo DAC/Amp.  So, you are "double amplifying" when you feed the Hugo output through another amp.
  
 There is much debate in the Hugo thread about how this degrades the Hugo's sound.  I'm not really sure as I haven't done enough listening with this combo yet.  All I know is that the first time I fed Hugo output to the Pan Am, the sound was glorious - 10/10.  Maybe it was just the newness of the Hugo sound, who knows.
  
 When I return from traveling and have some time, I want to try this again and feed the Hugo to the Pan Am, the GS-X Mk2 and the Liquid Glass and really see if additional amplification adds anything to the Hugo's sonic character.


----------



## TontonJoK

hugo is 56 ohms / 320 mW so with pan am it's perfect and as long as you get the wow feeling


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tontonjok said:


> hugo is 56 ohms / 320 mW so with pan am it's perfect and as long as you get the wow feeling


 
  
 Totally agree!!


----------



## LFC_SL

r scott ireland said:


> There is much debate in the Hugo thread about how this degrades the Hugo's sound.  I'm not really sure as I haven't done enough listening with this combo yet.  All I know is that the first time I fed Hugo output to the Pan Am, the sound was glorious - 10/10.  Maybe it was just the newness of the Hugo sound, who knows.



More nuanced than that. The designer has only said he designed the Hugo for transparency. Adding an amp is adding colouration. Whether you enjoy the colouration i.e. stepping away from that baseline transparency is up to the listener.


----------



## JoeDoe

So far the battle rages on between the Mullards and the Sylvania 6HM5s. The only differene so far is that the Syls are much louder at the same position on the volume pot. Both throw a very similar soundstage and signature. Thick dynamic lows, rich mids, and smooth yet detailed treble. I suppose I'll just be forced to listen to more Miles to help me decide. Oh the horror!


----------



## JoeDoe

Alright formal impression time:
  
  
 This little guy is pretty dang impressive. An excellently-built, functioning desktop solution that is pretty easy on the eyes too! For the record, I've got the whole stack - Pan Am, Passport, and Gateway. Haven't done much comparison between the two power supplies yet.
  
 As for the sound, the presentation is not glaringly tilted towards the bright or dark end of the spectrum. In a word: neutral. Now of course the tubes you pick can change that, but it's nice to know that with a neutral tube like the Yugo 6HM5 or RTC, you're starting pretty close to neutral.
  
 I think that DAC implementation is equal to the ODAC. Very capable and revealing from the 256 MP3s I've tested all the way up to the 24 bit higher res stuff. No complaints here.
  
 Now the amp. Power, power, and more power! Even with the ZMF V1s, high gain yields plenty of authoritative power with a dynamic punchy bass, lush mids, and nicely-detailed-but-never-sibilant treble. I also appreciate the versatility in that the Pan Am still plays well with lower impedance cans like my Grados and D2000s. I'm _very_ impressed with it's synergy with the DT880 Pros as well. The tubes take the edge off their treble. Making them one of my favorites.
  
 Tubes. Woohoo! I've got the Mullards, Siemens, RTCs, Yugo HM5s and Sylvania HM5s with Voskhods en route. So far the Mullards take the cake with the Yugos in at a close second. The Mullards rich lush bass and lower mids are unmatched out of this collection. Now the RTCs do treble better, but for me, I'll sacrifice a little extension for some thump. (In case anyone is interested, I've listed the Sylvanias and Siemens in the FS accessories thread.)
  
 Overall I'm very happy with this little setup. It's versatility, size, form factor, and tube-rolling options make it pretty dang satisfactory. Consider upgrade-itis cured... for now.


----------



## TontonJoK

Very interested to hear your point of view when the Voskhods get home !!

It looks like a grado Rs1 on picture !!! (nice DIY !!!)
Knowing the characteristics of the Russians tubes and after reading the similarity between px 100 and rs1, it may not be the best match (being treble happy) ????

I would say the Mullards should be the best suited for the rs1 euhh the sennheiser PX100 ????

Some Audeze headphones for Christmas ???


----------



## TontonJoK

Very nice Trader Reputation JoeDoe !!!


----------



## desertstrike

whats the best for HD600?


----------



## TontonJoK

What kind of music do you listen the most ??
What part of the spectrum you want to highlight ??


----------



## TontonJoK

I remember you have some Voskhods tubes and was asking about the Mullards

If you don't have the Mullards yet I would say that


----------



## desertstrike

i have 4 russian tubes, yet to get the mullard... some says they are quite about the same... what ur think?


----------



## TontonJoK

Russian tubes add more treble presence letting your hear more micro details


----------



## JoeDoe

For any Pan Am users that are interested, I'm selling a few sets of NOS tubes. P.m. for information.


----------



## TontonJoK

Post here the tubes you have, may be we can trade between pan am owners ??

I have 1 matched pair of Mullards and Siemens to trade


----------



## JoeDoe

I have RTCs, Sylvania 6hm5, and Siemens.


----------



## desertstrike

I have 4 pieces of Russian tube


----------



## Laslen

Is the Pan Am OTL?


----------



## TontonJoK

I read somewhere somebody talking about pan am and OTL no idea tho
It's powerful enough to handle the Audeze line with authority 

If you unplug the usb while powering it you may crash the drivers 

and when doing a/b comparisons I used to plug an unplugged headphones without issues


----------



## Laslen

Is there ever a reason the Pan Am would make one channel (left) louder than the other in stereo when used with HD650s?

 I've swapped the headphones on my head (L to right, and R to left) and it's still the same side that is louder, so it's not my ears.
 I've been panning a test tone and http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php because I was listening to music and could sense that one side was slightly off.

 Could it be the tubes I'm using? I tried both stock and RCA 6AK5's and noticed it.

 I plugged the HD650s into my Schiit Valhalla 2 and they are perfectly L-R balanced in volume.


----------



## TontonJoK

You tried to switch tubes from L to R also I guess
The off side is due to bass only ? 
Find any YT video with the problem to hear if we I have the same issue


----------



## TontonJoK

If you increase the volume is it more or less present ?


----------



## Laslen

Yeah, I swapped the tubes and used different tubes completely.

 It's not really bass only. The whole sound itself is slightly lower.

 For example, it's most evident if I turn the volume down to the point where I can only hear it coming from the Left side (because the volume gets low enough that you can't even hear the Right side at all), but it's noticeable at all volumes -- just not as obvious.

 Quote: 





tontonjok said:


> You tried to switch tubes from L to R also I guess
> The off side is due to bass only ?
> Find any YT video with the problem to hear if we I have the same issue
> 
> ...


----------



## TontonJoK

If it's more obvious at low volume and still off higher and you doubled check with somebody else perception then you could have defective volume potentiometer :mad:

Is the pan am under guarantee ?


----------



## koolas

joedoe said:


> Alright formal impression time:
> ...
> I think that DAC implementation is equal to the ODAC. Very capable and revealing from the 256 MP3s I've tested all the way up to the 24 bit higher res stuff. No complaints here.
> ...
> ...




I wouldn't call the DAC in PanAm very good, I'm surprised you are comparing it to ODAC. I have never heard ODAC, but I'd assume it's same league as iDSD, which I find day and night difference to PanAm.


I'm surprised most of you guys see Mullards as neutral tube. I recently compared TB_EQ setting when using Mullard, Sylvania and Voskhod tubes. The Voskhods are definite V shape at 1kHZ they are over -10dB, the Mullards were at 2.5kHz +6dB, while Sylvanias I would keep at 0dB all band. Could be my ear or it could be my chain. I'm using orthos and iDSD as DAC, and I have no idea how would other headphones sound out of this setup...


----------



## koolas

I have also noticed Voskhods are compressing bass, probably because PanAm does not supply enough power to them. Maybe on Gateway situation would change. I think the difference between wall-wart, Passport and Gateway is not the noise, but power supply for bass and power hungry headphones.


----------



## TontonJoK

With passport the bass with my lcd 2 is full and hit hard


----------



## Laslen

tontonjok said:


> If it's more obvious at low volume and still off higher and you doubled check with somebody else perception then you could have defective volume potentiometer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It is brand new. I literally purchased it, plugged it in, and noticed this. 

 I had my girlfriend listen to it, and she's not as picky as me, but still noticed it.


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

Is the Panam capable still a good buy without having the Gateway? (it would be used for desktop use) And it does come with a 12v wall charger correct? I wanted to know if there was cheaper options out there but that it would sound good without the gateway for now. Also, Has anyone tried the HD600s and the Mad dogs 3.2 with this (hoping both will be driven well with this amp)


----------



## BeyerMonster

muah said:


> I am using this instead of Passport to isolate AC from the DC input for Pan Am.
> 
> - See more at: http://www.ianker.com/product/79AN7905-BA#sthash.bjd8i2Io.dpuf>


 
 Do you have a source for the double ended cable necessary to use this? I'm thinking this kind of thing would be cheap enough that I shouldn't bother wasting my time with the soldering iron.


----------



## muah

I made them myself.


----------



## koolas

whiskeyjacks said:


> Is the Panam capable still a good buy without having the Gateway? (it would be used for desktop use) And it does come with a 12v wall charger correct? I wanted to know if there was cheaper options out there but that it would sound good without the gateway for now. Also, Has anyone tried the HD600s and the Mad dogs 3.2 with this (hoping both will be driven well with this amp)




IMHO Pan Am alone is better buy than iDSD, even though iDSD is way better DAC, what matters when you have neither dedicated DAC nor AMP and you used to power your headphones straight from phone (or even worse an iPhone), is probably good AMP in the first place and then good DAC. Using this logic I started from Pan Am and I was pretty happy it also has DAC built-in. The amount of power it delivers to my Alpha Dogs is astonishing if you look at it's size. Though my Behringer delivers way more power, and no distortion while Pan Am distorts bass at very high volume, and that depends on tubes you use. The iDSD for example has neat AMP section, but it's not enough to power Alpha Dogs, and beyond 3 o'clock bass doesn't get any louder dynamics gets compressed, and mids are more evident. So my verdict is Pan Am is definitely a great buy! Even now if I were to start again I would start from Pan Am  Though you may also look at Lyr or Vali, since Pan Am is not that portable anyways.


----------



## Noobmachine

koolas said:


> IMHO Pan Am alone is better buy than iDSD, even though iDSD is way better DAC, what matters when you have neither dedicated DAC nor AMP and you used to power your headphones straight from phone (or even worse an iPhone), is probably good AMP in the first place and then good DAC. Using this logic I started from Pan Am and I was pretty happy it also has DAC built-in. The amount of power it delivers to my Alpha Dogs is astonishing if you look at it's size. Though my Behringer delivers way more power, and no distortion while Pan Am distorts bass at very high volume, and that depends on tubes you use. The iDSD for example has neat AMP section, but it's not enough to power Alpha Dogs, and beyond 3 o'clock bass doesn't get any louder dynamics gets compressed, and mids are more evident. So my verdict is Pan Am is definitely a great buy! Even now if I were to start again I would start from Pan Am  Though you may also look at Lyr or Vali, since Pan Am is not that portable anyways.




I recently got myself the iDSD micro as a DAC to replace the ALO Key, and tbh the difference in quality is day and night, the Pan Am's DAC cannot keep up at all, and neither could the Key. The Amp on the iDSD nano is rather meh, but the power house on the micro can run pretty much any headphone. Alpha dogs included.


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

You 


koolas said:


> Could be... But iDSD nano certainly is


 
 You saying you prefer the idsd nano's dac to the Panam?


----------



## hentai

I am thinking of setting up a computer desktop rig on a budget and alo pan am is one of my consideration. I listened grado PS500 and AKG712 with it and felt the akg was a better match with pan am than the grado.


----------



## JoeDoe

Any silver pan am users out there interested in trading for black?


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

noobmachine said:


> I recently got myself the iDSD micro as a DAC to replace the ALO Key, and tbh the difference in quality is day and night, the Pan Am's DAC cannot keep up at all, and neither could the Key. The Amp on the iDSD nano is rather meh, but the power house on the micro can run pretty much any headphone. Alpha dogs included.


 
 You saying the Micro is a  better amp/dac?


----------



## TontonJoK

To match with iDSD 

It Looks interesting, really worth to add to pan am that idsd ?


----------



## TontonJoK

It's hard to find some good dsd files in EDM 
Even rock !, wish it gets more popular


----------



## Noobmachine

I am currently running this set up: MacbookPro > iDSD micro > Pan Am with Siemens tubes > JVC DX2000.

In this set up I find an almost end-gane sort of sound, and I only use the Pan Am as an amp, and the iDSD as a DAC, though the amp on the iDSD would easily make do for the more budget conscious. IMO the Pan Am is a far more flexible amp, but inferior in both output current and the built in DAC, and as such I just use the iDSD micro to make up for the weaknesses in the system. If you are considering the iDSD micro as a stand alone DAC/amp combo you won't be disappointed, but the Pan Am to me has a better amp stage, at least to my preferences. 

And if you're just getting the iDSD as a DAC, you're getting some serious bang for your buck, it's an amazing piece of gear that I have to do a write up in soon


----------



## TontonJoK

How about iFi Audio Micro iDAC with sabre 9023 ?


----------



## BattousaiX26

noobmachine said:


> I am currently running this set up: MacbookPro > iDSD micro > Pan Am with Siemens tubes > JVC DX2000.
> 
> In this set up I find an almost end-gane sort of sound, and I only use the Pan Am as an amp, and the iDSD as a DAC, though the amp on the iDSD would easily make do for the more budget conscious. IMO the Pan Am is a far more flexible amp, but inferior in both output current and the built in DAC, and as such I just use the iDSD micro to make up for the weaknesses in the system. If you are considering the iDSD micro as a stand alone DAC/amp combo you won't be disappointed, but the Pan Am to me has a better amp stage, at least to my preferences.
> 
> And if you're just getting the iDSD as a DAC, you're getting some serious bang for your buck, it's an amazing piece of gear that I have to do a write up in soon


 
 I am very interested also in getting one. Hope to hear more impressions from you


----------



## TontonJoK

+1


----------



## palchiu

Pam Am will be discontinue production? I saw on sale on ALO's web, also passport & gateway.


----------



## TonyNewman

palchiu said:


> Pam Am will be discontinue production? I saw on sale on ALO's web, also passport & gateway.


 
  
 Just put my order in for a Panam and a Passport. Glad I didn't wait any longer. Black is no longer available - silver only.
  
 I have an International+ that I use in the office. Sound is extremely detailed and high quality, just missing that tubey warmth that I really like.


----------



## TontonJoK

If someone want a black pan am ask Joedoe for a trade


----------



## koolas

noobmachine said:


> I am currently running this set up: MacbookPro > iDSD micro > Pan Am with Siemens tubes > JVC DX2000.
> 
> In this set up I find an almost end-gane sort of sound, and I only use the Pan Am as an amp, and the iDSD as a DAC, though the amp on the iDSD would easily make do for the more budget conscious. IMO the Pan Am is a far more flexible amp, but inferior in both output current and the built in DAC, and as such I just use the iDSD micro to make up for the weaknesses in the system. If you are considering the iDSD micro as a stand alone DAC/amp combo you won't be disappointed, but the Pan Am to me has a better amp stage, at least to my preferences.
> 
> And if you're just getting the iDSD as a DAC, you're getting some serious bang for your buck, it's an amazing piece of gear that I have to do a write up in soon




I absolutely agree. iDSD is great addition to Pan Am, and Pan Am is great addition to iDSD. While both iDSD and Pan Am are each great deal itself, together they can do amazing things. 

I don't think there isn't any amp below $1000k that can truly compete with Pan Am. There is Lyr and Vali, but they are not portable. Serious competitor could be iCAN, and it's probably great, but AFAIK it's not a tube amp, so no tube rolling and no tube sound...

BTW. You don't buy iDSD for DSD, you buy it for it's DAC


----------



## TontonJoK

idsd nano is well praised and cheaper, could it be a better choice than the built in dac ??


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

Received mine today, and honestly right out of the box I can hear that is a great unit, this is even without the burn in of the tubes that had been ordered on top of the stock at ALOaudio. I was a little worried about losing clarity and some of the nuances that I have heard with my M-stage upgraded with the LME4990x2 in there. Because that is a killer solid state, and I will say even with out some actualy burn in it has some authority. I used both my HD600s and my ER4PT IEMs on low gain, both being dead silent between the music. I am very happy with that. Now I just have to let these NOS french tubes burn in, and then give as go with some tube rolling. I wonder anyone and everyone if you had one pair of tubes that you could use with this unit...what would they be? 
  
 The DAC is quite good I would say on a level with the CDAC+ that I use to have, and loved, and that is a relief honestly. Because some all in one units sacrifice one and or the other DAC and Amp.
 SO  far this seems to have focused on making a great unit all around,and the only real thing for me that I would of added would be RCA output to use a solid state amp if wanted, because I bet this would have been an even bigger hit.
  
 Again anyone and or everyone, one set of tubes you could use with this unit what would it be?


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

Also has anyone used this amp with the Maddogs 3.2?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

whiskeyjacks said:


> Again anyone and or everyone, one set of tubes you could use with this unit what would it be?


 
  
 Telefunkens, but by a small margin over Voskhod and Cifte.


----------



## exsomnis

tontonjok said:


> idsd nano is well praised and cheaper, could it be a better choice than the built in dac ??


 
  
 It's better to my ears - more refinement and substance to the highs, better imaging and a natural sound in comparison.  I find the ODAC to be superior to the onboard dac too.


----------



## TontonJoK

Is it worth to get the nano or micro knowing I won't be using the amp section


----------



## koolas

whiskeyjacks said:


> Received mine today, and honestly right out of the box I can hear that is a great unit, this is even without the burn in of the tubes that had been ordered on top of the stock at ALOaudio. I was a little worried about losing clarity and some of the nuances that I have heard with my M-stage upgraded with the LME4990x2 in there. Because that is a killer solid state, and I will say even with out some actualy burn in it has some authority. I used both my HD600s and my ER4PT IEMs on low gain, both being dead silent between the music. I am very happy with that. Now I just have to let these NOS french tubes burn in, and then give as go with some tube rolling. I wonder anyone and everyone if you had one pair of tubes that you could use with this unit...what would they be?
> 
> The DAC is quite good I would say on a level with the CDAC+ that I use to have, and loved, and that is a relief honestly. Because some all in one units sacrifice one and or the other DAC and Amp.
> SO  far this seems to have focused on making a great unit all around,and the only real thing for me that I would of added would be RCA output to use a solid state amp if wanted, because I bet this would have been an even bigger hit.
> ...




When you buy Pan Am you pay for it being tube amp and not DAC. I don't see any need for RCA outputs from built-in DAC. If you want DAC don't spend $600 on Pan Am, just spend $250 on iDSD and use it with decent AMP like M-Stage. (IMHO) Pan Am builtin DAC is not worth more than $150.

With Pan Am the clarity of sound depends on tubes you use. Stock tubes are lacking detail a lot. The Voskhods (people keep recommending here) are (IMHO) also very undetailed. I agree that Mullards give great detail, but (IMHO) Sylvania is even better, though people keep complaining about low amount of bass. I use Pan Am on Sylvanias with Alpha Dogs (known for neutral sound), and I don't complain on bass (even though I love EDM) - I just boost it a bit (+3dB) with TB_EQ, and effect is great. If you use Mad Dogs I believe you would be very happy without without using EQ. If you are big fan of Rock music then Mullards are bulls-eye. They give this metallic sound to electric guitars and drums.


----------



## koolas

tontonjok said:


> Is it worth to get the nano or micro knowing I won't be using the amp section




If you are interested in portability, then iDSD Nano is a great choice. I grab mine together with Pan Am and Alphas everyday to work. But for that I use shoulder bag, and that limits a bit my flexibility. If I were to just use pocket in my jacket the iDSD would do great, and I wouldn't complain for small power, as I would probably be carrying IEMs and not Alphas anyways. The Pan Am on the other hand can't be placed in the pocket, even if your pocket is very big there are these tubes sticking out. So for carrying Pan Am you definitely need a bag. If you decide to carry a bag, then you can have more good stuff in it, like big headphones and additional DAC.

So, it all depends on your uses. If you are looking for desktop DAC with neat headphone AMP then NAD D1050 is better choice (I have auditioned it and my jaw dropped) than both iDSD and Pan Am, and (I haven't compared to that) even if they work in chain. If you are looking for something pocket-portable then iDSD is nobrainer.


----------



## exsomnis

tontonjok said:


> Is it worth to get the nano or micro knowing I won't be using the amp section


 
  
 I don't miss my nano iDSD amp section.  It doesn't do my LCD 2s justice.  Useful for when I bring just the iDSD along with my IEMs.
  
 I don't know about the micro iDSD's amp section but people are reporting that it's decent with full size cans that are harder to drive.  So you may end up choosing one over the other there.  
  
 If you're on a tight budget an ODAC will do just fine.


----------



## JoeDoe

http://www.head-fi.org/t/734697/alo-audio-pan-am-stack


----------



## MrWong

Perhaps not the forum but I was recommended the Micro iDSD for my Alpha Dogs. But I've also considered the Pan Am. 

Seeing as you have both amps what would you recommend as a all-in-one option? Keeping in mind this is my 'portable' set. Haha


----------



## MrWong

Sorry I tried to tag Noobmachine in my prior post. Clearly wasn't successful!


----------



## TontonJoK

joedoe said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/734697/alo-audio-pan-am-stack




123 traders feedback is not enough


----------



## TontonJoK

mrwong said:


> Perhaps not the forum but I was recommended the Micro iDSD for my Alpha Dogs. But I've also considered the Pan Am.
> 
> Seeing as you have both amps what would you recommend as a all-in-one option? Keeping in mind this is my 'portable' set. Haha




solid state vs tubes

The idsd micro is easier to bring around than pan am

Don't know how sounds the micro idsd but what I can say for sure is the pan am is really sounding great 

The dac from the idsd is better but the amp section from pan am seems even better

 hard choice


----------



## Noobmachine

The iDSD micro is plenty capable of driving the AD, the amp section is very powerful.


----------



## MrWong

noobmachine said:


> The iDSD micro is plenty capable of driving the AD, the amp section is very powerful.


 
 Has anyone compared the iDSD to the Centrance Hifi M8 by any chance?


----------



## koolas

mrwong said:


> Has anyone compared the iDSD to the Centrance Hifi M8 by any chance?




Hifi M8 is way more expensive, so what should we compare. M8 will be better I guess, but it costs arm and leg. If I were to pay 1k I would rather go for AK120. It has two shinny Cirrus Logics and some say it has enough power to drive anything, and it's tiny, and it's All-in-one DAC, Amp and Transport as well - what else could you possibly want! Personally I am fan of CL house sound.


----------



## koolas

tontonjok said:


> solid state vs tubes
> 
> The idsd micro is easier to bring around than pan am
> 
> ...




Normally I use at work Nano iDSD -> Pan Am -> Alpha Dogs, but sometimes Passport runs out of energy, and I have to switch to: iDSD -> Alpha Dogs. The difference is huge. iDSD does not have power to drive bass, so at louder volumes mids get exaggerated. However the problem is not that annoying if you take into account that iDSD is very small box, and Passport just ran out of power...


----------



## Noobmachine

koolas said:


> Normally I use at work Nano iDSD -> Pan Am -> Alpha Dogs, but sometimes Passport runs out of energy, and I have to switch to: iDSD -> Alpha Dogs. The difference is huge. iDSD does not have power to drive bass, so at louder volumes mids get exaggerated. However the problem is not that annoying if you take into account that iDSD is very small box, and Passport just ran out of power...




Not the iDSD nano, but the newer micro, the micro has the power the run pretty much any headphone, with 1200mw per channel... I haven't tested but I'm entirely sure they can power the AD, especially since they can power things like the HE-500/HE-6.


----------



## TontonJoK

Yes I read reviews about that transportable amp being capable of handling any headphones with authority


----------



## JoeDoe

What is this the Pan Am thread or the Ifi fan boy conglomerate?!


----------



## TontonJoK

yes pan am !!!


----------



## koolas

Pan Am and not Pan Am


----------



## TontonJoK




----------



## koolas

Just compared again Voskhods with Sylvanias. When I put Sylvania in right channel and Voskhod in left I didn't hear much difference between left and right, so the difference must be in low low and high high where human ear would not distinguish.

Played same song (Tomcraft - Pulsar) again and again and I found again same thing - both tubes are almost the same, where Voskhods are tinny bit louder, and they have stronger low-low and high-high ends, but then Sylvania show much cleaner presentation, it definitely is more detail, but I wouldn't be able to distinguish, the thing I do distinguish, and why I know Sylvania is playing is feeling of "Presence" of the music.

Weird... I thought I would be more on bass-headed side, but surprisingly more detail is something that makes me listen and listen and listen and listen again, sane and same and all over the same song. I guess human hearing self-adjusts and you can get bassy feeling in bright headphones as well, but what brain cannot do is to increase amount of detail. Actually detail makes brain think things are real, while less detail automatically makes your brain know sound is fake. You can't help it - this is your brain


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

I have had a few days to really get to know the PanAm better, and I have to say it does not disappoint, I am only trying to get funds together to get some Mullard tubes for this DAC/Amp unit, and only thing I do not care for so far is not having a RCA out and or preamp option for when I would like to use a Solid state amp, for better pairing with certain headphones. I have been steadily using this unit along with the Gateway psu alongside the HD600's and the ER4PT( I have listened a bit with them being that I am newer to in ear monitors, but they actually pair really well) Both sound great with the amp which is a exceptionally good tube amp. Being that there is a warmth but not overly warm with the tubes so far, to where I am losing out in detail. I would say that the DAC is a fairly good one at that, on par with the ODAC as far as clarity and clean conversion of my flacs and other tracks. The fact that I can use low gain to drive both the HD600s and the Tenore zero IEMs and get no hiss or static that I can hear to my ears really impresses me. I actually find this amp and dac suited to being versatile with many phones and Iems alike. Granted this is subjective, but I think that I am overall happy with the single set up for my desk setup. I am selling the Fournier HTA-2 which in it's own right is fantastic, giving a realism and rare energy to music I have yet to hear done from even more expensive units. In that same thought though I am not upset that I am using the PanAm's amp because it is equally as fantastic, and sounds very accurate with still have some warmth and especially life and musicality. 
  
  
 EDIT: I have a pair of ZMF X Vibro's that I am going to try out on the way should be here by the weekend. And hopefully the T70's that were suppose to arrive but have not been(I swear I will lose it if USPS loses another package) And I will be trying out both of those with the PanAm and let you guys know how I feel about the sound. I am hoping the ZMF will sound good with this, and be able to be drive with authority, from what I have seen and read about phones that are good mates to the Panam give me hope


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

Okay so I feel the T70p come to life in a fantastic way with the PanAm, detail level was already great with the hp, but with the French RTA tubes the air and treble is fantastic for a closed can to feel this spacious kind of blows my mind. It feels like I am listening to a better extended DT880s, with less Brightness but more resolution detail and depth in bass. Fantastic.
  
 Been using the Vibro with it too and I was more concerned with this one, but I am satisfied because taking the Vibro's excellent realism and midrange and just multiplying it with this DAC/Amp is basically what happens. It drives them very well considering they are harder to drive then my HD600s. I am very satisfied in this regard. Only thing I am on the fence with is no ability to use another amp with the unit has me second guessing keeping this unit, not to say the amp is not fantastic, because is. It is spacious, detailed with great power and versatility. I love the sound and clarity it gives for having tubes it is quite impressive. But i also do like solid state amps....


----------



## TontonJoK

I agree
The pan am being so small, on my Pc set up I have 2 amps using Usb
One tubes and the other SS
You just need 2 headphones


----------



## HiFiRobot

Having owned the Pan Am for a few months now. Using the RTC (French) tubes from ALO. Simply loving it with my LCD-2, gets more playtime than my V200. Also very nice pairing with Fidelio X1, brings out the somewhat distant midrange of the X1:s. Highly recommended!


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

I wanted to ask if anyone here has listened to the HE560 or HE400i with the PanAm? And I would definitely Like to hear their impressions, so far the PanAm, with the HD600s, was a very nice mixture of midrange, good bass clarity(more so that with the M-stage) and with the RTC French tubes I feel like the HD600s Treble sounded better extended with more clarity. I was surprised I liked the PanAm with the ZMF X Vibro but not surprised with the T70p. The Vibro already has nice bass impact with lovely and realistic midrange, some of the best I have heard in a headphone yet, but it really brought out the highs and with slight eq i am totally smitten with the headphones via PanAm. The T70p was a headphone I was not certain I would enjoy, and boy I keep plugging it in more and more straight from the rockbox ipod 5.5 I have it actually sounds great, but with the PanAm the detail and openness just catches me off guard for they are closed headphones. I would really like to hear that the PanAm pairs very well with both the HE400i and 560


----------



## gradofans

looks beautiful . And I'm curious about the sound


----------



## TontonJoK

Just received my new Hd 800 and love the sound with it !!!!!!!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tontonjok said:


> Just received my new Hd 800 and love the sound with it !!!!!!!


 
  
 Which tubes?


----------



## TontonJoK

Waiting for some AEG but right now the Russians are very good sounding


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tontonjok said:


> Waiting for some AEG but right now the Russians are very good sounding


 
  
 Outstanding!  Enjoy your new HD 800's and let us know what you think about the Telefunkens after you've listened to them.


----------



## lustandwet

It looks beautiful , and a reasonable price for a portable amp , but , when I sum them up, the total gear seems too expensive for me ...


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

lustandwet said:


> It looks beautiful , and a reasonable price for a portable amp , but , when I sum them up, the total gear seems too expensive for me ...


 
 I understand what you are saying but using this as a desktop unit, which I have been, it beats out my other 500$ pairing imo, making this a very good buy. Granted if you want the full stack it may be a little much, agreed. But if you only need it for a desktop solution this is definitely I nice buy, or if you only need a on the road solution this is definitely a good buy.


----------



## TontonJoK

The product being discontinued I am wondering if it's not clever to get myself a gateway ??????
I have the passport but don't know if the battery will last long ( I recharge it 4 or 5 times a week at least)


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tontonjok said:


> The product being discontinued I am wondering if it's not clever to get myself a gateway ??????
> I have the passport but don't know if the battery will last long ( I recharge it 4 or 5 times a week at least)


 
  
 That's what I did.
  
 And I also bought a second Pan Am and Passport - that's how much I like this amp.


----------



## TontonJoK

someone know how long Alo will provide replacement parts like batteries ???


----------



## TontonJoK

r scott ireland said:


> That's what I did.
> 
> And I also bought a second Pan Am and Passport - that's how much I like this amp.




Yep I've seen that


----------



## TontonJoK

Do you hear a difference between gateway and passport ??


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tontonjok said:


> Do you hear a difference between gateway and passport ??


 
  
 Not really, no.


----------



## TontonJoK

good to know


----------



## TontonJoK

I asked Alo about gateway compatibility with 220 volts, I guess it is (waiting for response) In this case a EU plug adaptor will work 

Little confused, should I get an other passport but silver (my pan am and passport are black) or get a black gateway (still available)

I read somewhere passport brings better mediums AND more bass impacts than gateway...


----------



## HiFiRobot

tontonjok said:


> I asked Alo about gateway compatibility with 220 volts, I guess it is (waiting for response) In this case a EU plug adaptor will work
> 
> Little confused, should I get an other passport but silver (my pan am and passport are black) or get a black gateway (still available)
> 
> I read somewhere passport brings better mediums AND more bass impacts than gateway...




It is 220v compatible. I replaced the included cable for a Supra Lorad. But you can use any Cable with IEC320 C13 (the standard) connector.

EDIT: The Gateway bottom label says 100-240VAC, 50/60Hz. Output: 12V - 1.0A


----------



## TontonJoK

Thanks, now let's decide between a gateway or a 2sd passport :rolleyes:


----------



## HiFiRobot

tontonjok said:


> Thanks, now let's decide between a gateway or a 2sd passport


 
  
 I have both Gateway and Passport. But have not started using the Passport yet. Why do you need a second passport?


----------



## TontonJoK

It's a lithium battery so I guess have a maximum number of re charging cycles before starting to decline


----------



## TontonJoK

I use mine a lot so it won't last forever


----------



## muah

Can I check if when buying the Passport if it comes with a separate wall plug type 12 volt supply to charge the Passport or I have to use the wall plug charger from my Pan Am?

Thanks


----------



## TontonJoK

I think so, I bought mine used but only one power supply


----------



## HiFiRobot

muah said:


> Can I check if when buying the Passport if it comes with a separate wall plug type 12 volt supply to charge the Passport or I have to use the wall plug charger from my Pan Am?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 I bought the Pan Am, Gateway and Passport. Only got one 12V power supply.
 - Pan Am - included 12V power supply
 - Gateway - US power Cable, 3 lengths of 12v cable
 - Passport - 3 lengths of 12v cable
  
 The cardboard box that the Passport is in does not even have room for a power supply.


----------



## TontonJoK

Do you as R Scott Ireland, not perceive any sounding difference between gateway and passport ?


----------



## TontonJoK

I asked a question to Alo about shipping and then will probably order the Gateway from them
and some RTC tubes at the same time :biggrin:

If someone want to sell a gateway to me it's fine too


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

tontonjok said:


> I asked a question to Alo about shipping and then will probably order the Gateway from them
> and some RTC tubes at the same time
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I use the Gateway with the PanAm I notice the difference between the wallwart psu that it comes with normally. I have to say also the RTC French tubes they sell are exceptional in air, space, clarity, and top end detail. I love them. I think having them and set of either Cifte's or Mullards is a great way to go. I am actually on the verge of selling my PanAm only have owned it for a month or so, but been looking at something balanced for the HE-560. It literally was bought in september if anyone is interested in owning one let me know. 

 I just do not know what to get for a desktop unit because the PanAm it sounds great. It is one of the better amps I have heard out there.


----------



## TontonJoK

audio gd or violectric and lots others 

If you want to sell your gateway alone


----------



## WhiskeyJacks

tontonjok said:


> audio gd or violectric and lots others
> 
> If you want to sell your gateway alone


 
 Lol dude I am on the verge of buying a audio gd when I have the money but not sure which I can get, I want a balanced one that I can used with the balanced he560 cables.


----------



## TontonJoK

Nfb 28


----------



## JoeDoe

Anyone else using an aftermarket power cable for their Pan Am? I've never bought into cables being able to improve what I hear, but this little Volex may be changing that... Will get back to you guys.


----------



## koolas

hifirobot said:


> It is 220v compatible. I replaced the included cable for a Supra Lorad. But you can use any Cable with IEC320 C13 (the standard) connector.
> 
> EDIT: The Gateway bottom label says 100-240VAC, 50/60Hz. Output: 12V - 1.0A




Wow, you convinced me! I am pretty sure Passport cannot output 1A, and I'm almost certain this is why it's not sufficient to provide enough power for my Sylvanias to power up Alpha Dogs to their deafening sound level without distortion. 

So, I definitely must try Gateway to see if I will finally go deaf


----------



## HiFiRobot

koolas said:


> Wow, you convinced me! I am pretty sure Passport cannot output 1A, and I'm almost certain this is why it's not sufficient to provide enough power for my Sylvanias to power up Alpha Dogs to their deafening sound level without distortion.
> 
> So, I definitely must try Gateway to see if I will finally go deaf




Go easy man. You'll regret tinnitus everyday for the rest of your life. I have the french tubes but have not experienced any distorsion with my Lcd-2. Maybe the Sylvanias are more power hungry?


----------



## koolas

hifirobot said:


> Go easy man. You'll regret tinnitus everyday for the rest of your life. I have the french tubes but have not experienced any distorsion with my Lcd-2. Maybe the Sylvanias are more power hungry?




Ehh, I already have tinnitus everyday and night  But only after long day of listening to the music loud. Recently I listen only at 11 o'clock, with all this TB chain that put it down by -8dB I think. With Telefunkens I don't hear any distortion - they sound like they were made exactly for Pan Am. Though Sylvanias give better control over bass and treble. Yes, they conduct more current than other tubes, and thus they are more power hungry.

When I got my first Sylvanias they drained Passport in 4hrs on first day, now after burn-in Passport goes after 7-8hrs, and with Telefunkens for comparison it can last even 2 days.


----------



## TontonJoK

11 or 12 o'clock with lcd2 and 10 o'clock with hd 800 and it's loud enough both low gain further same issue


----------



## koolas

tontonjok said:


> 11 or 12 o'clock with lcd2 and 10 o'clock with hd 800 and it's loud enough both low gain further same issue




You say, you get distortion beyond 12 o'clock with lcd2 and hd800?
How would you compare lcd2 vs. hd800 when Pan Am is apming them?


----------



## TontonJoK

Never heard any clipping or distortion with the pan am, just saying if I listen too loud I get tinnitus for an hour or 2

Lcd 2 is fantastic with EDM and Hd 800 for acoustics, great combo


----------



## nicdub

I have been searching for the output power of the Pan Am, but haven't had much luck. Without searching through every page in this thread (or others), could anyone provide that information? I use it with the LCD2's, and find it drives them well, but am curious as to how much power it is actually delivering. Thanks in advance for the knowledge!


----------



## TontonJoK

max output level 22v
max input power 3.5 watt rms
Can't find more informations

This little amp have a lot of juice to spare that's for sure !!


----------



## JoeDoe

Any other Pan Am users rockin HE500s out there?


----------



## nicdub

joedoe said:


> Any other Pan Am users rockin HE500s out there?




I actually don't prefer the Pan Am with the HE-500, and find myself gravitating to the Dacport when I listen to them.


----------



## TontonJoK

I prefer the pan am + hd 800 combo over the lcd2


----------



## BattousaiX26

joedoe said:


> Any other Pan Am users rockin HE500s out there?


 
 For HE500 I like the Pan Am with the mullards tube for more bass body


----------



## TontonJoK

Just a question
Just received the Gateway, do you leave it in standby mode when pan am turned off or do you shut both gears ??


----------



## TontonJoK

When the pan am is off the gateway led turned green, if I leave it like this it shouldn't be a problem , right ???


----------



## nicdub

tontonjok said:


> When the pan am is off the gateway led turned green, if I leave it like this it shouldn't be a problem , right ???




I turn both off but often think it wouldn't matter if I left the gateway in standby mode. Haven't read that it makes a difference either way.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

battousaix26 said:


> For HE500 I like the Pan Am with the mullards tube for more bass body




Many of my headphones do not love the Mullards, but wow, the LCD-X sounds fantastic with them.


----------



## BattousaiX26

r scott ireland said:


> Many of my headphones do not love the Mullards, but wow, the LCD-X sounds fantastic with them.


 
 Now I really want to try the X with the mullards. I have only tried RTC tube with the X which I don't like, too bright and a little bit thin sounding for me.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

battousaix26 said:


> Now I really want to try the X with the mullards. I have only tried RTC tube with the X which I don't like, too bright and a little bit thin sounding for me.




Do try the X's with the Mullards and let us know what you think.

I'm listening to the LCD-3C with the Mullards today, and they also sound very, very good.


----------



## TontonJoK

Rtc's are nice with hd800, I prefer them over Mullards


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tontonjok said:


> Rtc's are nice with hd800, I prefer them over Mullards




+1. I did not like the Mullards with the HD800. I like the RTC's and the Cifte's are also very good. The best of the best (to me) with the HD800 are the Telefunkens.


----------



## a-widodo

How is the soundstage of HD800 with pan am? I've read somewhere before that pan am is not able to show HD800's best potential.


----------



## TontonJoK

A friend of mine have a audio gd master 8 amp + a sugden A21 SE + a dac metrum and a pan am and we compared 

We used both : pan am + metrum dac + hd 800
 Master 8 + metrum + Hd 800
 pan am + ifi micro idac + hd 800
 pan am alone with hd 800
 metrum + sugden speaker tabs + hd 800

We did the same with : Lcd 2 fazor and Lcd2 old pre fazor
 HE 6 + He 400 + denon 7100 + EM 32


The pan am have a very nice sound stage and sound very good with all set up, the difference is more related to the dac section ( timbres and details, decay and less about sound stage )

The built in dac from the pan am is not bad but not the best, the amp section is very nice


----------



## a-widodo

Do you mean that pan am's performance still excellent even when compared to the more expensive one?
 Is the tube able to tame the peaky high?
 Thank you for your response.


----------



## TontonJoK

definitely YES


----------



## TontonJoK

The improvement was more obvious when upgrading the dac section from the pan am, more expensive amps was better but not a lot

I think the P.Am amp section is very very good and the built in dac good 

After upgrading the dac for a ifi micro idac I noticed a good sonic difference from pan am, the metrum was better but the price also :rolleyes:

About highs and HD 800 I did the DIY tweak explained in innerfidelity web site and the result is really worth the hassle


----------



## TontonJoK

For tubes and highs, the Mullards will tame the treble but my favorites are RTC or Telefunken
The Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV was very good but IMO emphasizing trebles (or high medium) more than others


----------



## a-widodo

Lots of people say that with amps that have bad synergy with HD800, the sound will be too dry and lifeless. How is the pan am with HD800?


----------



## TontonJoK

It's not dry at all, lot's of bass and lively, I sold my Lcd2's since I was so impressed by hd 800

With hd 800 get some with serial number after 20000 (more bass and less dry)


----------



## TontonJoK

The hd 800 have sub bass may be a little less than pre fazor lcd 2's but way more than fazor one
The rest is so much better, it is just my opinion and what 2 others friends noticed


----------



## JoeDoe

Just pull the trigger on some NOS Telefunken tubes. Will post impressions by the end of the week!


----------



## TontonJoK

Did the same, I found some printed telefunken on ebay


----------



## JoeDoe

Any Pan-Amsters out there savvy to the Burson Conductor amp? Any comments or comparisons would be very appreciated!


----------



## TontonJoK

I received the 6ak5w telefunken and so far I'm very impressed by the soundstage and how it let you perceive height-width and depth 
The bass is bigger than from RTC and very closed in amount to the russians tube but being more punchy and with more slam 
I need more hours to compare all the tubes I have but those telefunkens are very addictive


----------



## JoeDoe

tontonjok said:


> I received the 6ak5w telefunken and so far I'm very impressed by the soundstage and how it let you perceive height-width and depth
> The bass is bigger than from RTC and very closed in amount to the russians tube but being more punchy and with more slam
> I need more hours to compare all the tubes I have but those telefunkens are very addictive




Your impression seem promising. Still waiting on mine!

Unrelated topic: are any of you Pan Am users using some kind of socket saver? One of my sockets has become a little loose but I want to make sure that I can fit a socket saver in the tube opening before pulling the trigger.


----------



## JoeDoe

They're here! The Telefunkens are getting a workout and so far I'm liking what I'm hearing. They're much closer to the Mullards than the Voskhods or Yugos. 
  
 Will post more impressions later.


----------



## TontonJoK

May be I'm wrong be I feel like there is a bigger soundstage and good bass anyway


----------



## InebriatedGnome

Really interested in picking one of these up; fingers crossed ALO discounts the Pan Am and accessories even further for Black Friday. Is it likely that they're phasing the Pan Am out completely, or could it be replaced with another unit in the same space?


----------



## JoeDoe

New tube impressions:
  
 NOS Telefunkens 6ak5: Bigger space than mullards, but midrange is a little less clear. Congested maybe? Still very fun. 
  
 NOS Amperex 5654: Super dynamic and crisp. Mullard low end with Voskhod upper end. Loving these guys so far!


----------



## SoundApprentice

inebriatedgnome said:


> Really interested in picking one of these up; fingers crossed ALO discounts the Pan Am and accessories even further for Black Friday. Is it likely that they're phasing the Pan Am out completely, or could it be replaced with another unit in the same space?


 

 I spoke with ALO over the weekend, the Pan Am is being discontinued. They will continue to support it, but are not producing more. There's no immediate direct replacement, but I was told they are working on some exciting things for later in 2015. ALO said the Pan Am was more popular than they thought it would be, but since it has been out for a couple of years, they need to start looking at updated options.


----------



## roguepp88

Got some RCA NOS tubes with my Pan Am,
 Just couldn't resist and had to post to tell everyone how amazing they are!
 Just burnt in 10 hours.
 I use AKG K702 65th as my daily HP and also tried with a friend's HD650.
  
 Sounded even better than my Russian and Mullard tubes which I originally enjoyed!!


----------



## BattousaiX26

roguepp88 said:


> Got some RCA NOS tubes with my Pan Am,
> Just couldn't resist and had to post to tell everyone how amazing they are!
> Just burnt in 10 hours.
> I use AKG K702 65th as my daily HP and also tried with a friend's HD650.
> ...


 
 Can you describe its sound signature and how is it better than mullards and russians?


----------



## roguepp88

battousaix26 said:


> Can you describe its sound signature and how is it better than mullards and russians?


 
 Its the RCA square coil 6AK5.
 In the AKG K702 Annies, they bring out more warmth (I like warmer sounds),
 and makes the gave the highs a sparkle that gave it even more musicality (the K702 Annies was know for this already),
 better than the Russian which had a overpowering bass and the Mullards that did not have such a refined high.
  
 The HD650 was similar,
 the bass was not as overpowering on the RCA compared to the Rissian,
 yet it was still relatively tight compared to the Russians and Mullards.
 But the Mullard did have a better mid on HD650,
 but the Mullard sounded a bit too thick on the HD650 overall.
  
 Loving my RCAs!!!!
 What other headphones would you recommend for the Pan Am other than what I have or LCDs and Beyers?
 I am keen to know since I have to return my HD650 soon,
 and want another pair of HP to mix it up with my K702 annies.
  
 I have some French RTC and SYLVANIA's coming in next week as well.
 Will post on here as well if they are anything special.


----------



## TonyNewman

roguepp88 said:


> Got some RCA NOS tubes with my Pan Am,
> Just couldn't resist and had to post to tell everyone how amazing they are!
> Just burnt in 10 hours.
> I use AKG K702 65th as my daily HP and also tried with a friend's HD650.
> ...


 
  
 I have a pair of these on the way via EBarf - if they beat the Mullards they will be very good indeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I would like to try the Telefunkens, but they seem harder to find than albino unicorns.


----------



## roguepp88

tonynewman said:


> I have a pair of these on the way via EBarf - if they beat the Mullards they will be very good indeed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hope you enjoy the RCAs as much as I do!!
 And hopefully you find the perfect HP paring for them too!
  
 I know where to find telefunkens, its just that they are in shops in Hong Kong and they are freaking expensive!!


----------



## TonyNewman

roguepp88 said:


> Hope you enjoy the RCAs as much as I do!!
> And hopefully you find the perfect HP paring for them too!
> 
> I know where to find telefunkens, its just that they are in shops in Hong Kong and they are freaking expensive!!


 
  
 I'm using IEMs (SE535) and find the Mullards a very good match (I like a little darkness in my music).
  
 I might pass on the Telefunkens - I already have a stack of other EF95s to try.
  
 That's the great thing about tube rolling with the PanAm - an "expensive" set of EF95s is (typically) well under $50. Try tube rolling 300Bs and watch your bank account vaporise before your eyes.


----------



## JoeDoe

New toy as of an hour ago!


----------



## TontonJoK

roguepp88 said:


> Hope you enjoy the RCAs as much as I do!!
> And hopefully you find the perfect HP paring for them too!
> 
> I know where to find telefunkens, its just that they are in shops in Hong Kong and they are freaking expensive!!




I probably got them from this ebay seller from HK
Real big nice sound


----------



## HiFiRobot

joedoe said:


> New toy as of an hour ago!




Yep that's the combo.


----------



## JoeDoe

In case anyone is interested, I have two socket savers for the 7 pin tubes than the Pan Am takes for sale. Socket savers for 7 pins are hard to find and for anyone who wants to extend the life of their PA's sockets, this is a no brainer. PM me if you are interested.


----------



## shultzee

soundapprentice said:


> I spoke with ALO over the weekend, the Pan Am is being discontinued. They will continue to support it, but are not producing more. There's no immediate direct replacement, but I was told they are working on some exciting things for later in 2015. ALO said the Pan Am was more popular than they thought it would be, but since it has been out for a couple of years, they need to start looking at updated options.


 

 The Pan Am I am betting will be in demand for years.  What a great unit and I wish I had kept mine.


----------



## TonyNewman

shultzee said:


> The Pan Am I am betting will be in demand for years.  What a great unit and I wish I had kept mine.


 
  
 Looks like ALO have sold out of the PanAm - no longer listed for sale. Glad I got mine - great little unit.


----------



## JoeDoe

Amen!


----------



## TonyNewman

Odd decision from ALO to can it without a replacement. Great little amp+DAC combination. I can't believe it hasn't sold well.


----------



## SoundApprentice

tonynewman said:


> Odd decision from ALO to can it without a replacement. Great little amp+DAC combination. I can't believe it hasn't sold well.


 

 ALO stated to me that is sold very well for them, much better than they ever expected. But they just felt it was time to shutter it and pursue new products for 2015 and beyond.


----------



## TonyNewman

soundapprentice said:


> ALO stated to me that is sold very well for them, much better than they ever expected. But they just felt it was time to shutter it and pursue new products for 2015 and beyond.


 
  
 So a replacement is likely to be in the works - good to know


----------



## TonyNewman

Anyone know of a good transportable source device for the PanAm. I want something that I can plug into the PanAm via USB and have the PanAm happily suck the binary data from the device, using its own DAC for the digital -> analog conversion.
  
 Any ideas?
  
 I am using my work laptop right now in the office, but would prefer to use my own device.


----------



## JoeDoe

tonynewman said:


> Anyone know of a good transportable source device for the PanAm. I want something that I can plug into the PanAm via USB and have the PanAm happily suck the binary data from the device, using its own DAC for the digital -> analog conversion.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> I am using my work laptop right now in the office, but would prefer to use my own device.




X5? DX50/90?


----------



## TonyNewman

joedoe said:


> X5? DX50/90?


 
  
 Have you actually used either of these to feed the PanAm? I want to be sure that it is going to work before I invest in a device (once bitten... etc)


----------



## BattousaiX26

Hi guys I just bought The Gateway and I use it to charge the passport, my question is will the gateway turn its light indicator to green when passport is fully charged?


----------



## TontonJoK

:biggrin:: edit


----------



## BattousaiX26

Ok nevermind it turned green now


----------



## JoeDoe

So the PA has been getting lots of love this holiday season. A few thoughts for you gentlemen:
  
 1. Socket savers/test sockets = a must. The 7-pin miniatures are becoming harder to find, so pick some up wherever you can. 
 2. My HE500s love the PA. I've grill & Fuzzor modded mine and replaced the stock with Focus pads. Excellent combo.
 3. Tube Rankings:

Mullards
Telefunkens
Voskhods
Amperex
Yugos
  
 Just some thoughts to 1. help you out and 2. inject some life into this thread! Happy listening!


----------



## TontonJoK

Could be interested in a pair of socket saver but we live far far away, it looks easy to switch tubes


----------



## R Scott Ireland

I'm sure socket savers are a very good idea, but I can just now barely fit the Pan Am into the ALO zipper case (made for the Pan Am + Passport - I use it portably) with the tubes left in.  With savers, no go.
  
 I'm banking on ALO being able to fix/replace the sockets after I screw them up


----------



## Oliv009

Hi everyone,
  
 thanks to tontonjok I ve bought one of the last panam sold in france and I am very happy with it!!!
  
 It made me sold my audio gd master 8 much biger, maybe more detailed but much more expensive and not sound tuning thank's to tubes.
  
 Now in electro dynamic and ortho I on an he400i i drive with raytheon and I am very happy with it. I have found pair of national electric I drive with happyness my hd600.
  
 I tried on it hd800, lcd2 rev 2 and fazor, lcd3 (soon lcdx), ZMF blackwood he400 and everything is drived very well with a deep image of sound, strongness but smoothness of tubes.
  
 I really love this amp much better than the more modest ember from garage project.
  
 I was surprised to see that they stopped production of the panam. Maybe to do a better product ??
  
 For the price I think i is a very very good amp but the dac is not really good to my ears (I much prefer my hex but not same cost range)
  
 Happy to share my experience and in the same time trie to improve my english...


----------



## TonyNewman

oliv009 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> thanks to tontonjok I ve bought one of the last panam sold in france and I am very happy with it!!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to the PanAm club. Did you purchase a Passport or Gateway power supply to go with the amp unit?
  
 Fot tube rolling it is hard to better the NOS mullards - excellent tubes.


----------



## TontonJoK

Welcome Olivier 

You'll get yourself a Lcd X also ???, you'll finish owning every headphones around


----------



## Oliv009

No I own one allready as you know but indeed it is david sylvain i lend my lcd3f before sell it to flo (all fro tellement nomade ) who let me try the lcdx on the panam.
  
 I'll make you a return on it. I tried allready the lcdx on a audio gd sa31 se and a super7 from EC.
  
 Tonton you know I have found sokets to change tube for cheap if you need one let me know.


----------



## Oliv009

No just the panam. I tried quickly gateway of tontonjok but didńt heard differences.

I got Rca sovteck mullard, raytheon and national electric tubes.
The two last are my favorite and raytheon wins almost all the Times.

Good synergy with hd800 and he400i especialy.

With hd600 i préfér a bit the NE.

I dońt really like other ones.


----------



## TontonJoK

oliv009 said:


> No just the panam. I tried quickly gateway of tontonjok but didńt heard differences.
> 
> I got Rca sovteck mullard, raytheon and national electric tubes.
> The two last are my favorite and raytheon wins almost all the Times.
> ...




It was the passport battery not the gateway, got the gateway later on


----------



## Oliv009

Sorry you are right...


----------



## TonyNewman

oliv009 said:


> The two last are my favorite and raytheon wins almost all the Times.


 
  
 I have not tried the Raytheon's - have to give those a try - thanks.


----------



## Audio Reiner

tonynewman said:


> I have not tried the Raytheon's - have to give those a try - thanks.




I'm loving the Raytheon's too.


----------



## TonyNewman

audio reiner said:


> I'm loving the Raytheon's too.


 
 It's off to Ebay I am a going for some Raytheon EF95 goodness...
  
 If these beat the Mullards they must be stunning - I really like the Mullards.


----------



## DivergeUnify

Is this amp no longer being made?


----------



## TontonJoK

I checked on ebay those Raytheon 6ak5 and I see yellow red and grey ones :rolleyes:


----------



## TonyNewman

divergeunify said:


> Is this amp no longer being made?


 
  
 Correct. ALO recently announced that they are discontinuing the Pan Am.
  
 No replacement announced yet.


----------



## TonyNewman

tontonjok said:


> I checked on ebay those Raytheon 6ak5 and I see yellow red and grey ones


 
 Is there a particular flavour of Raytheon tube I should be looking for?


----------



## DivergeUnify

tonynewman said:


> Correct. ALO recently announced that they are discontinuing the Pan Am.
> 
> No replacement announced yet.


 
 That's disappointing!  I just read the headfonia review, and it's statements on the synergy between the LCD2 and it were really exciting, given the fact that it's less than $500 and a tube amp


----------



## TonyNewman

divergeunify said:


> That's disappointing!  I just read the headfonia review, and it's statements on the synergy between the LCD2 and it were really exciting, given the fact that it's less than $500 and a tube amp


 
 It might still be available from various retailers and/or distributors. There might also be some good deals out there as it is a discontinued product. ALO had a run out sale a few months ago with great deals on the amp + gateway + passport.
  
 I don't pay much attention to reviews from sites like headfonia (thinly disguised marketing shill to my jaded eyes), but that takes nothing away from the Pan Am - superb little unit. Worth your time hunt one down, if you can find it.


----------



## DivergeUnify

tonynewman said:


> It might still be available from various retailers and/or distributors. There might also be some good deals out there as it is a discontinued product. ALO had a run out sale a few months ago with great deals on the amp + gateway + passport.
> 
> I don't pay much attention to reviews from sites like headfonia (thinly disguised marketing shill to my jaded eyes), but that takes nothing away from the Pan Am - superb little unit. Worth your time hunt one down, if you can find it.


 
 Is there any particular quality which makes this amp run well with a low-impendance can like the LCD2, given from what I've read, that tube amps don't jive particularly well with low-impendance headphones?


----------



## TontonJoK

This little amp is really amazing, sounds great with hd600 hd650 hd800 lcd 2 3 X and many more cans and don't take place on a desk
Tubes are cheap and available on ebay, love it


----------



## TonyNewman

tontonjok said:


> This little amp is really amazing, sounds great with hd600 hd650 hd800 lcd 2 3 X and many more cans and don't take place on a desk
> Tubes are cheap and available on ebay, love it


 
  
 +1. I use mine with SE535 IEMs and it works great.


----------



## JoeDoe

If any of you new owners are interested in some tubes on the cheap, shoot me a message. I've got some I could bundle for a steal!


----------



## TontonJoK

Thanks for selling to me your spare socket savers Joe, very hard to find these days'


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tonynewman said:


> Is there a particular flavour of Raytheon tube I should be looking for?


 
  
 I would like to know this too!
  
 There are several options on eBay - Black plates; Gray plates; 1944 Mil-specs (more expensive); etc.


----------



## TonyNewman

r scott ireland said:


> I would like to know this too!
> 
> There are several options on eBay - Black plates; Gray plates; 1944 Mil-specs (more expensive); etc.


 
  
 I ended up buying the JAN 5654 tubes with the red labels (the most expensive ones).


----------



## JoeDoe

tonynewman said:


> I ended up buying the JAN 5654 tubes with the red labels (the most expensive ones).




And I pulled the trigger on some JRP 6ak5s this morning. They're mil spec NOS.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tonynewman said:


> I ended up buying the JAN 5654 tubes with the red labels (the most expensive ones).


 
  
  


joedoe said:


> And I pulled the trigger on some JRP 6ak5s this morning. They're mil spec NOS.


 
  
 Coudn't decide - bought 1 set of each of these


----------



## TonyNewman

r scott ireland said:


> Coudn't decide - bought 1 set of each of these


 
  
 Please let us know which ones are better for you - I'm curious if I went with the 'right' tubes.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tonynewman said:


> Please let us know which ones are better for you - I'm curious if I went with the 'right' tubes.




Will do. I'll roll them in as soon as they arrive and report back.


----------



## BattousaiX26

r scott ireland said:


> Will do. I'll roll them in as soon as they arrive and report back.


 
 Nice! Waiting for impressions here too!


----------



## Oliv009

Concerning raytheon tubes I feel that they offer a very large and deep image but very realistic. Bass impact and deepness is good and it seems to be a bit soft with trebles. 

A perfect match with hd800 and he400i. 

For the hd600 and the lcdx I prefer the National electronic but Ihave not enough hear them to explain why.


----------



## TontonJoK

which one you have Oliv ? Color and date of built if you know ??


----------



## JoeDoe

1944 NOS Raytheons in the house! These things are impressing so far. When I get a little more quiet time, I'll A/B 'em against the Mullards and Telefunkens.


----------



## TontonJoK

Very interested to hear the differences with Telefunken's


----------



## Oliv009

My  Raytheon seems to be from 44 too but the inscriptions are scratched.
  
 Color is orange/red


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Yesterday I received 2 sets of Raytheon tubes:

  

 1. 1967-1970 JAN-5654, Black Plate, Top O (these have Red/Orange silk-screened markings (eBay $36.95 with shipping).

  

 2. 1944 Military Spec JRP 6AK5; Side Getter and Oval Plates; gray/white markings (eBay $73.50 with shipping).

  

 I gave these a quick listen on the LCD-X and also listened to my Telefunkens for a comparison/reference. Both sets of Raytheons were right out of the box NOS - no burn-in.

  

 I did not care much for the 1967-1970's. They sounded mid-centric and were light on bass, but the biggest problem I had with them was the congested rendition and limited sound stage (very left-right and shallow). In full orchestral passages, there was no air and instruments muddled together and became indistinct. They sounded better with string quartets and vocals, but nothing special. Perhaps with adequate burn-in, their midtone emphasis might be nice for vocals or small jazz ensembles, but considering all of the other good tube choices out there, I'm not optimistic that these will ever make the A team.

  

 Different story for the 1944's.  These sounded very nice indeed, even right out of the box. I would say that they were almost comparable to the Telefunkens, and with some burn-in, I believe they may equal them. The soundstage was medium-deep with plenty of air. All frequencies were well rendered. My only nit-pick is that there was a slight edginess to the sound - not sibilant, but a tiny bit harsh. The Telefunkens, by comparison, were smooth as silk at all frequencies.  I believe though that the Raytheons will smooth out as they burn-in and turn these into a superb set of tubes.


----------



## TontonJoK

So Telefunkens remain n°1


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tontonjok said:


> So Telefunkens remain n°1


 
  
 Well, for me at least, yes


----------



## HiFiRobot

Got some Mullards recently. Good stuff. Need to listen more but initital impressions more solid state and less tubey magic midrange sounding than my RTC tubes, Mullard soundstage is niiiiice. Pairing with HE-500 probably better than with the RTC tubes. But LCD-2 and XC are my main headphones for Pan Am and currently Mullards vs RTC is a matter of sound preference. Life is good =)


----------



## Audio Reiner

I've a question: inside the pan am are 2 capacitors with 10 mF an 50 Volts and I guess they are in the signal pass. Has anyone changed them to bigger once, e.g. 22 or 47 mF to get a better signal power in the bass range with iem's with a low impedance like the AKG K3003?


----------



## JoeDoe

Telefunken vs. Raytheon:
  

​Raytheon has a slightly leaner midrange. Sounds cleaner so with complex or thinly-textured music, this is good, but with thickly-textured stuff, the Tele is more fun
The Tele has better treble texture/air. Hi hats on the Raytheon are a little less articulate. 
Bass is very _very_ close. The edge might go to the Raytheon in quantity (by a hair). Neither is bloated or understated. Very nice on both kick drums and uprights.
  
 Just for clarification, the Raytheons are NOS JRP 6AK5 and the Teles are NOS 6AK5Ws


----------



## BattousaiX26

Mullards amazing pairing with the LCD-X! The LCD-X turned into a very musical but still very detailed headphone! Wonderful pairing I wish I had the LCD-X too!


----------



## TonyNewman

battousaix26 said:


> Mullards amazing pairing with the LCD-X! The LCD-X turned into a very musical but still very detailed headphone! Wonderful pairing I wish I had the LCD-X too!


 
  
 I have tried a bunch of tubes and nothing has beaten the Mullards - love em. RTC comes in second for a detailed, but slightly bright, sound.
  
 After a lot searching I have finally found a pair of NOS Telefunkens. $95 for the pair on Ebarf - crazy money for tiny tubes - but they are so hard to find now.


----------



## HiFiRobot

tonynewman said:


> I have tried a bunch of tubes and nothing has beaten the Mullards - love em. RTC comes in second for a detailed, but slightly bright, sound.
> 
> After a lot searching I have finally found a pair of NOS Telefunkens. $95 for the pair on Ebarf - crazy money for tiny tubes - but they are so hard to find now.




Hmm RTC bright... What headphones are you listening with?


----------



## TonyNewman

hifirobot said:


> Hmm RTC bright... What headphones are you listening with?


 
  
 SE535 IEMs.
  
 When I say "bright", I mean "bright compared with the Mullards" - which are slightly dark.
  
 The RTC have a little bit of treble emphasis to my ears, but I am used to gear that rolls off the treble a little.


----------



## JoeDoe

tonynewman said:


> SE535 IEMs.
> 
> When I say "bright", I mean "bright compared with the Mullards" - which are slightly dark.
> 
> The RTC have a little bit of treble emphasis to my ears, but I am used to gear that rolls off the treble a little.




Agreed. RTC would be the solid state sound whereas Mullards and Teles are more tubey.


----------



## BattousaiX26

joedoe said:


> Agreed. RTC would be the solid state sound whereas Mullards and Teles are more tubey.


 
 +1. The RTC sounds like more of a solid state but retaining some magic of tube on the midrange


----------



## TontonJoK

RTC are good that's a fact but the telefunkens's let me hear more variations and details in the music


----------



## RyuDaddy

I got the Panam and Mullard tubes 2 weeks ago. Very happy to pair with AKG K420. 
Just upgrade the can to K701. Very details and widen sounds rage. Now burning it.


----------



## BattousaiX26

ryudaddy said:


> I got the Panam and Mullard tubes 2 weeks ago. Very happy to pair with AKG K420.
> Just upgrade the can to K701. Very details and widen sounds rage. Now burning it.


 
 The Siemens are also good with the K701, bass might be a little light but the air and sound stage fits well with the k701


----------



## BattousaiX26

Has anyone here tried using different 12v connector with the Pan Am?


----------



## JoeDoe

battousaix26 said:


> Has anyone here tried using different 12v connector with the Pan Am?




I use a Volex


----------



## RyuDaddy

battousaix26 said:


> The Siemens are also good with the K701, bass might be a little light but the air and sound stage fits well with the k701



Still enjoy burn the Mullard. 
Also have china tubes that come with standard pack of the Panam but no chance to try it yet. Thank for advice.


----------



## BattousaiX26

ryudaddy said:


> Still enjoy burn the Mullard.
> Also have china tubes that come with standard pack of the Panam but no chance to try it yet. Thank for advice.


 
 The chinese has small soundstage and is harsh better not try it with the analytical k701


----------



## TonyNewman

tontonjok said:


> RTC are good that's a fact but the telefunkens's let me hear more variations and details in the music


 
  
 This is my first day with my NOS 1965 Telefunkens. Great tube. Already ahead of anything else I have heard. Better tonality and bass than the RTC, not overly dark or wooly as the Mullards could sometimes be.
  
 If there is a "just right" tube this might be it (at least for me).
  
 If only they weren't so pricey.


----------



## JoeDoe

If you like the Tele, should pick up a pair of NOS raytheons...

I agree with your findings though.


----------



## TonyNewman

joedoe said:


> If you like the Tele, should pick up a pair of NOS raytheons...
> 
> I agree with your findings though.


 
 Tried the Raytheons - nice, but I preferred the Mullards to them, and the Teles to everything


----------



## TontonJoK

An other advantage in my set up at least with the telefunken's, is that they are less sensitive to electrical noise


----------



## TonyNewman

tontonjok said:


> An other advantage in my set up at least with the telefunken's, is that they are less sensitive to electrical noise


 
  
 After spending a full day at the office listening to the Teles I have to say that the are far and away the best tubes I have tried in the PanAm.
  
 Tonality is spot on. Bass and treble are good. Mids are lovely. Detail is good. Can't really fault them - great all rounders.
  
 Anyone else find the Teles are a step up from everything else?


----------



## TontonJoK

me 

It's right they are the most expensive of the bunch but compared to other amps, I could easily say that they're worth every 50 $ paid

Pan am uses some nice sounding cheap tubes and rolling is really easy


----------



## TonyNewman

tontonjok said:


> me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I paid almost double that - but am not complaining at all - worth every cent of it.
  
 Only amp I own where TOTL tubes are under a hundred bucks


----------



## TontonJoK

If someone is interested with the ebay link shoot me a pm, it's in stock for 56 $
It's from Hong kong what could make people suspicious like I was, but they are real and much better than all my other tubes anyway (mullards, rtc, Russian 6ZH1P-EV)


----------



## TontonJoK

Sorry It's gone, no more Telefunkens for the moment


----------



## TonyNewman

tontonjok said:


> Sorry It's gone, no more Telefunkens for the moment


 
  
 My order has been accepted, so I think I am golden.
  
 Thank you again for sharing this on HeadFi - much appreciated. The PanAm with Telefunkens is quite special.


----------



## TontonJoK

tonynewman said:


> My order has been accepted, so I think I am golden.
> 
> Thank you again for sharing this on HeadFi - much appreciated. The PanAm with Telefunkens is quite special.




You're welcome, I agree those tubes are my best set so far


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tonynewman said:


> Anyone else find the Teles are a step up from everything else?


 
  
 Yup.  See my earlier posts.


----------



## BattousaiX26

Anyone here tried using the Jan Ge5654 tubes on pan am? I ordered a pair and is curious what to expect in its sound.


----------



## HiFiRobot

hifirobot said:


> Got some Mullards recently. Good stuff. Need to listen more but initital impressions more solid state and less tubey magic midrange sounding than my RTC tubes, Mullard soundstage is niiiiice. Pairing with HE-500 probably better than with the RTC tubes. But LCD-2 and XC are my main headphones for Pan Am and currently Mullards vs RTC is a matter of sound preference. Life is good =)


 
  
 Update 2 months later. The Hifiman HE-500 with Mullards is really something. Brings the HE-500 to life unlike any of my other amps. ALO would be crazy not to launch a new version of the Pan Am.


----------



## TontonJoK




----------



## TonyNewman

hifirobot said:


> Update 2 months later. The Hifiman HE-500 with Mullards is really something. Brings the HE-500 to life unlike any of my other amps. ALO would be crazy not to launch a new version of the Pan Am.


 
  
 If you like the Mullards, I can recommend the Telefunkens. Not easy to find, or cheap, but excellent tubes. Extension top and bottom + detail + lovely warm sound - the Telefunkens do just about everything very well.


----------



## TontonJoK

tonynewman said:


> If you like the Mullards, I can recommend the Telefunkens. Not easy to find, or cheap, but excellent tubes. Extension top and bottom + detail + lovely warm sound - the Telefunkens do just about everything very well.




You have received your 2 pair of Telefunken ? Same as your previous ones ?


----------



## TonyNewman

tontonjok said:


> You have received your 2 pair of Telefunken ? Same as your previous ones ?


 
  
 Had a bit of a mix up and I was sent the wrong tubes. The seller was very cool about it and will send me 3 Telefunken EF95s once the the 2 incorrect tubes I have posted back reach them.
  
 These things happen - it's all about how the seller deals with it when it does. These guys have been great.


----------



## TontonJoK

It's a spare set of tubes but frustrating when it happens to you :mad:

3 tubes ? one for free in case...


----------



## HiFiRobot

tonynewman said:


> If you like the Mullards, I can recommend the Telefunkens. Not easy to find, or cheap, but excellent tubes. Extension top and bottom + detail + lovely warm sound - the Telefunkens do just about everything very well.


 
  
 Thanks. I am considering them as well. Which headphones would the Telefunkens work well with you think?


----------



## TonyNewman

hifirobot said:


> Thanks. I am considering them as well. Which headphones would the Telefunkens work well with you think?


 
  
 I use my PanAm with IEMs (SE535s). Any headphone that the PanAm drives well should work fine with them.


----------



## TonyNewman

tontonjok said:


> It's a spare set of tubes but frustrating when it happens to you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah - I wasn't expecting anything extra - great customer service, really.


----------



## a-widodo

I got a pair of telefunken tube a while ago and I use it with LCD-2 rev 2. The result is airy sound and quite large soundstage. However, it is a bit boring and lack toe tapping factor for my taste. So I'm not using it a lot, instead, I'm rotating mullard, rtc and voskhod.
 Yesterday, I tried the telefunken to power my HD800 (low serial number if it is matter and no mod). To my surprise, the sound is just perfect. No harshness in the treble, mid is great, bass is impactful, detail retrieval is great, while maintaining the airy nature. Soundstage and layering is as usual for HD800, great. 
 The tube is not really easy to get and a bit more expensive than the others, but it is worth it for HD800.


----------



## TonyNewman

a-widodo said:


> I got a pair of telefunken tube a while ago and I use it with LCD-2 rev 2. The result is airy sound and quite large soundstage. However, it is a bit boring and lack toe tapping factor for my taste. So I'm not using it a lot, instead, I'm rotating mullard, rtc and voskhod.
> Yesterday, I tried the telefunken to power my HD800 (low serial number if it is matter and no mod). To my surprise, the sound is just perfect. No harshness in the treble, mid is great, bass is impactful, detail retrieval is great, while maintaining the airy nature. Soundstage and layering is as usual for HD800, great.
> The tube is not really easy to get and a bit more expensive than the others, but it is worth it for HD800.


 
  
 Works great with IEMs too - SE535s in my case. Mullards are good and #2 for me, but the Teles are best.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

hifirobot said:


> Thanks. I am considering them as well. Which headphones would the Telefunkens work well with you think?


 
  
 I gave the Tele's a personal "score" of 10 out of 10 with my LCD-3's, LCD-X's and HD800's.  And a 10 score is very rare with me.
  
 Superb sound.  You should probably ask if there are any headphones that they would NOT work with - likely a much shorter list.


----------



## TontonJoK

same for me, loved them with the lcd2's but made the HD 800 my favorite phones after trying that combo


----------



## NZheadcase

Makes me sad that the Pan Am was discontinued. Rocking them with my Alpha Dogs now. The Pan Am is my absolute favourite for the Alpha Dogs. There's some kind of synergy there with the amp, the phones, and my preference in music. 
  
 Anyone hearing any rumours of a Pan Am two?


----------



## TontonJoK

Nop

Every time I bring my pan am to friends and compare with theirs expensive amps, the reaction is the same

What ?? Where can I get that stuff ?? 
Very impressed


----------



## BattousaiX26

Guys you should try Jan Ge 5654w tube! Amazing vocals with the LCD-2f and just enough impact on the lows!


----------



## alpha421

There's a few black Pan Ams ($389.99) and black Gateways ($89.99) on ALO warehouse site:
  
 http://warehousedeals.aloaudio.com/the-panam-black-4870
 http://warehousedeals.aloaudio.com/the-gateway-black-4867


----------



## NZheadcase

alpha421 said:


> There's a few black Pan Ams ($389.99) and black Gateways ($89.99) on ALO warehouse site:
> 
> http://warehousedeals.aloaudio.com/the-panam-black-4870
> http://warehousedeals.aloaudio.com/the-gateway-black-4867


 
  
 My Passport just died. Well, it lasts only 30 minutes now. Much disappoint. 
  
 No passports listed in the warehouse deals. 
  
 Anyone know if the battery in the passport is replaceable guys?


----------



## x RELIC x

nzheadcase said:


> My Passport just died. Well, it lasts only 30 minutes now. Much disappoint.
> 
> No passports listed in the warehouse deals.
> 
> Anyone know if the battery in the passport is replaceable guys?




Not sure if it's replaceable. Have you asked ALO?

Curious, did you have it plugged in all the time?


----------



## NZheadcase

x relic x said:


> Not sure if it's replaceable. Have you asked ALO?
> 
> Curious, did you have it plugged in all the time?


 
  
 Had it since release. Gets major use in the office. On hindsight, I think it held up pretty well. 
  
 No warranty anymore so I might just open it up and experiment with it.


----------



## x RELIC x

nzheadcase said:


> Had it since release. Gets major use in the office. On hindsight, I think it held up pretty well.
> 
> No warranty anymore so I might just open it up and experiment with it.




That's around three years right? Not too bad. I've never picked one up but wish I had. Whether in warranty or not they may still be able to provide a battery replacement service (for a fee outside of warranty).

Also, you never answered my query. I'm curious if it was plugged in all the time, or a significant portion of the time it was in use?


----------



## NZheadcase

x relic x said:


> That's around three years right? Not too bad. I've never picked one up but wish I had. Whether in warranty or not they may still be able to provide a battery replacement service (for a fee outside of warranty).
> 
> Also, you never answered my query. I'm curious if it was plugged in all the time, or a significant portion of the time it was in use?


 
  
 Sorry, I missed that. As much as possible, I was on battery power. The battery was in use about 70% of the time I would say. Battery life dropped about maybe 10% every 3-4 months on average. Now only lasts 30 minutes on lo-gain. When the battery drains, I would turn the Gateway on. 
  
 Don't think it would be feasible for me to send it all the way to ALO. In New Zealand you see.  I plan to just experiment with it. See what I can cobble together and maybe share here - if I ever get the time. hehehe.


----------



## x RELIC x

nzheadcase said:


> Sorry, I missed that. As much as possible, I was on battery power. The battery was in use about 70% of the time I would say. Battery life dropped about maybe 10% every 3-4 months on average. Now only lasts 30 minutes on lo-gain. When the battery drains, I would turn the Gateway on.
> 
> Don't think it would be feasible for me to send it all the way to ALO. In New Zealand you see.  I plan to just experiment with it. See what I can cobble together and maybe share here - if I ever get the time. hehehe.




No worries. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## NZheadcase

Making a day of it with the T1 and Pan Am. 
  
 Damn. I should spend more time with this pair.


----------



## HiFiRobot

nzheadcase said:


> My Passport just died. Well, it lasts only 30 minutes now. Much disappoint.
> 
> No passports listed in the warehouse deals.
> 
> Anyone know if the battery in the passport is replaceable guys?


 
  
 THE PASSPORT-BLACK SKU:WDPPB


$199.00

  $119.99




 http://warehousedeals.aloaudio.com/the-passport-black


----------



## InebriatedGnome

Any news of a successor to this at CanJam? Always wanted one but the price put me off, and now that I'm making enough money it looks like I don't have a chance any more.


----------



## JoeDoe

Just in case anyone has yet to see it, the carryall transport bags for the Pan Am stack are only $10 on the warehouse deals page!


----------



## InebriatedGnome

If only I had a Pan Am for the bags, I'd be gleeful right now!


----------



## JoeDoe

What's up Pan Am-ers! Anybody rolling any fresh tubes these days?


----------



## TontonJoK

Nop I'll try the Sylvania's from 1942 next month to compare with my tubes but it's about it


----------



## Audio Reiner

I've a lot tubes tested. At the end of the day I always come back to the Sylvanias and the AEG (Telefunken). Just now I hear the Telefunken.


----------



## BattousaiX26

joedoe said:


> What's up Pan Am-ers! Anybody rolling any fresh tubes these days?


 
 Try Jan Ge 5654w very good tube for vocals


----------



## Audio Reiner

I have a new pair Telefunken tubes. Original military pieces. They are a little better than my AEG versions. 

I give them 10 from 10 points! The best I ever heard.


----------



## TontonJoK

You mean the regular branded Telefunken 6ak5W's ?? Hard to find around 40 or 50 $$


----------



## Audio Reiner

tontonjok said:


> You mean the regular branded Telefunken 6ak5W's ?? Hard to find around 40 or 50 $$


 
 Yes, this one. I payed $45 for a pair.


----------



## TontonJoK

I'll try the Sylvania from 1942 but I'm pretty sure the Telefunkens will end up in the Pan am for a while again


----------



## Audio Reiner

Yes, i guess! I've such Sylvanias too. They are pretty good for voices or strings but the Telefunken do this job too and they sound stronger, bigger and more powerful. As I wrote, 10 from 10 points. The Sylvania are nearby, I give them 9 from 10 points.


----------



## desertstrike

Guys, anyone still have the link to purchase mullards tube？


----------



## TontonJoK

Check ef95 8100 on the bay 

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/5654-M8100-CV4010-EF95-MULLARD-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-MATCHED-PAIR-LITTLE-DOT-/261382013444?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cdb950204


----------



## koolas

I used to run on those Sylvanias, but recently I switched to my gold and platinum plated Voskhods. I sort of like them, so I didn't switch back for more than month now. I did some comparison with Mullards and Telefunkens, and even my girlfriend (who normally doesn't seem to hear difference) thinks Sylvanias and Voskhods are best (she actually pointed to Voskhods as her favourite, but she said it's about their looks - ya know gold/platinum looks great ). So I decided to give another chance to Voskhods (which I previously considered not that detailed). I dunno, Sylvanias were very good, maybe too good, maybe too clinical. I got a bit bored maybe. Voskhods make me actually want to listen to the music. I tried Telefunken several times, but I got bored just after 1 minute of listening to them, so it's no go for me


----------



## TontonJoK

I tried the Sylvania from 1945, good bottom end, detailed but on the bright side


----------



## koolas

I brought today all my tubes to the office and playing around with them. I was very happy with Voskhods for recent time. Today I first put Telefunkens, and then Mullards, and now... I'm back on Sylvanias (1945)...

The obvious thing that popped up straight after popping them in was superb bass extension and superb treble extension. Amazing EQ-response to bass and treble (on all other tubes EQ-response was much lower).


----------



## koolas

My office setup


----------



## TontonJoK

Smart


----------



## koolas

Thanks. 

I simply had enough of plugging plugs in every time I got to work, and unplugging before leaving office...
I also thought it could be quite portable, though it's quite heavy


----------



## BattousaiX26

koolas said:


> My office setup


 
 Can I copy your idea? (y)


----------



## TontonJoK

And there is still some room for a bud W


----------



## DarktoreS

Hi, I read a long time Head-fi but I never posted any message! I am one of the lucky owners of ALO PANAM, I chose the Concero dac into a wonderful compagon travel!
 I currently have a PM-2 OPPO and LCD-2 Fazor have a killer sound with the Mullard 5654, but I must recognize that with the OPPO PM-2 is the best performance with the Sylvania 6HA5 ! I also ordered Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, the Amperex 6HQ5 electron to a final experiment ! But so far my best choice with the PANAM + Concero 5654 remains the Mullard. For me the 5654 Mullard are much better than the CV4010 appears to be lacking in depth compared to 5654 or Voshtock ...
  
 I use a translator, my English is too bad to write !


----------



## TontonJoK

Hello Darktores 

Welcome to Headfi 

Someone correct myself If I'm wrong but the Mullard's CV 4010 are the same as M8100 The M8100 being for military uses and the CV4010 the regular ones 


6AK5 regulars and 6AK5W military version 
EF95 CV4010 M8100 5654 is all the same no ??

A lot of people prefer the Mullards with Lcd2's and I agree about their sound qualities 

May be the fazored Lcd2's match very well with Mullards and the non fazored with some tubes with a little more highs emphasis (like Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV) 

??


----------



## BattousaiX26

tontonjok said:


> Hello Darktores
> 
> Welcome to Headfi
> 
> ...


 
 I think the Mullards 5654 are actually relabel as RTC 5654 not very sure though. Yes I wholeheartedly agree that the fazor LCD 2 sounds very good with the Mullards and the non-F sounds good with brighter tubes like RTC and JAN Ge


----------



## DarktoreS

I just received my new dac for the PANAM, the Director by Meridian promotion on amazon UK at $ 349! This is a monster dac the soundstage is wide, detailed, felt the voice and violin is beautiful ! It sends a surprising width while remaining full of detail with superb bass. A real discovery that I will not be baught to $ 700 for me a real success without a doubt with the PANAM !!


----------



## TonyNewman

I use my PanAm in the office and pack it up into a plastic lunchbox for transport to and from each day - not very elegant but it works and keeps the PanAm safe.
  
 I have not found another tube that matches the Telefunkens for all around performance. Curious - have other folks found the same thing or is there another allrounder tube out there I don't know about that tops the telefunken?


----------



## BattousaiX26

tonynewman said:


> I use my PanAm in the office and pack it up into a plastic lunchbox for transport to and from each day - not very elegant but it works and keeps the PanAm safe.
> 
> I have not found another tube that matches the Telefunkens for all around performance. Curious - have other folks found the same thing or is there another allrounder tube out there I don't know about that tops the telefunken?


 
 Still dont have Telefunkens but for me Mullards CV4010 and Jan GE 5654w are both good all arounders.


----------



## TonyNewman

battousaix26 said:


> Still dont have Telefunkens but for me Mullards CV4010 and Jan GE 5654w are both good all arounders.


 
  
 I have the Mullards and like them, but they can be a little wooly and heavy in the bass. I have found the Teles the better all around tube compared to the Mullards.
  
 The JAN GEs I have not tried. Have to hunt down a pair. Thanks.


----------



## dmhenley

Hello!
 I've been posting my rolling experience on the other tube rolling thread - 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/657870/alo-the-pan-am-the-tube-rolling-thread/105#post_11756986
  
 I've been through several pair, and my favorites are the Mullard 5654, and the Tung Sol 6AK5 (1949).
  
  
 Gear:
 AKG Q701/ALO Pan Am-Gateway/Parasound Zdac/PC/Fidelizer Pro/Roon-Tidal


----------



## hardbop

I would have to roll my Telefunkens back in to get a good comparison, since I haven't listened to them in a while, but I've been using a couple of Cifte tubes and I like them at least as much as I like the funks.


----------



## Rzkr

I recently picked up a Pan Am and Gateway but currently don't have any cans. What headphones, diregarding price have the best synergy with and are overall the best match for Pan Am?


----------



## JoeDoe

rzkr said:


> I recently picked up a Pan Am and Gateway but currently don't have any cans. What headphones, diregarding price have the best synergy with and are overall the best match for Pan Am?




LCD2s are supposed to pair brilliantly and several including myself very much enjoy the HE500 or HE400.


----------



## TonyNewman

I use my PanAm in an open plan office, so a closed back HP is a must. I am finding the Shure 1540 mates very well with the PanAm. Great sound and comfort.


----------



## Rzkr

I agree the he500, he560 and the X2 are the only headphones I've tried with it and I thought the X2 was very good and he500 was better. The he560 was not a good match which surprised me because I thought that they are supposed to be easier to pair with an amp and drive than the 500's. I'm very tempted to pull the trigger on the lcd 2 but reading about the veiled vocals scares me along with what seems to be the popular notion that if your going Audeze your better off going to the top to the lcd3 or the X. Thats good to know about the Shures, Im looking for an open right now but eventually want to add a closed phone to the mix. Thanks for the replys!


----------



## TontonJoK

get a hd 800 and enjoy 

Very good synergy


----------



## Rzkr

Really? I wouldn't have guessed that was a good pairing. That's very interesting. Ive never heard the hd800 but have always been very curious.I think I might really enjoy them though I've read they are pretty light down low. I was thinking maybe Ether would be a nice happy medium between Audeze and the hd800 butIve read its hard to match and very revealing of upstrem gear. I'm interested to read what Tyll has to say about it as well as the the Dharma.


----------



## TontonJoK

My hd 800 have just a little less bass slams than my non fazor lcd2.2 but a little more than my friend's fazor lcd2

I heard the hd 600 on the pan am and sounded great too for the price


----------



## TontonJoK

If you get a hd 800 find a serial number after 20 000, the drivers sound more bassy than the previous version


----------



## Rzkr

I definitely need to give them a shot. I would love to have that soundstage if it came with some bass.


----------



## TontonJoK

I listen to minimal and electro house as long as epic music and really appreciate that soundstage and don't feel like it's bass lacking (I did a little with the fazored lcd 2.2)


----------



## roguepp88

I have a Fostex TH600, and I find that pairs quite well with the Pan-Am as well, especially when you are looking for a closed back pair of HP.


----------



## Rzkr

I hadn't really considered Fostex. Whats their sound signature like? I was flirting with the idea of possibly picking up a pair or Beyerdynamic T1 or Alpha Dog Prime since there seems to be a number of good deals on those for sale second hand.


----------



## TontonJoK

Heard the T1 nice headphones but imo lacking low ends way more than Audeze or Hd 800


----------



## Rzkr

That's what Ive been reading. That its a thin sound.


----------



## roguepp88

The TH600 is a V-shaped sounding (semi) closed back HP with some of the best low end you will hear in any headphones around.


----------



## JoeDoe

Any of you Pan Am owners use the Fidelio X2 as your primary? I'm thinking about picking one up!


----------



## Rzkr

I auditioned the X2, he 500 and he 560 and I thought the X2 and he 500 performed very well with the pan am. It was a pretty close call between them but I did prefer the he 500. I did not think the pan am played well with the he 560. Maybe it was the particular pair of he 560s that I had but they sounded thin, very bass shy and seemed underpowered. The pan am should have had enough power took handle them,so I don't know what the story was but they were easily my least favorite out of the three with the pan am. To my ears the x2 was the best bang for your buck out of the 3 though the he 500 is dropping in price and is also an excellent value and better headphone though I wouldn't say drastically so. If you're diligent you can find them new for $500 or less and used for less than $400. X2 can be had used on Amazon for $225.


----------



## JoeDoe

Thanks for your thoughts! I've actually got an audition pair coming in next week so maybe I'll drop a few impressions!
  
  
 In other news, I posted a while back about my NOS Raytheon JRP 6AK5s and I'm revisiting them now. I swear people, they are as good if not better than the Teles...


----------



## Rzkr

No problem! Please report back with you're impressions.


----------



## JoeDoe

Eye candy anyone?


----------



## TontonJoK

I may get a HE 500 instead of my HE 400

What do you think of the synergy ???


----------



## TontonJoK

I also tried the new Audeze El8 with it and beside a little improvement compare to solid state amp like the oppo I wasn't that impressed


----------



## JoeDoe

tontonjok said:


> I may get a HE 500 instead of my HE 400
> 
> What do you think of the synergy ???


 
 I think the 500 works beautifully with the Pan. Nice thick but clean low end, rich mids, and crystal upper end. With Russian tubes, this is a killer setup!


----------



## TontonJoK

sounds good, I'll look for a pair around my place


----------



## JoeDoe

rzkr said:


> No problem! Please report back with you're impressions.




Well here are my thoughts:

The x2 is basically a diet he-500. Very similar sound signature. Slightly warm tilt but still very resolving. The x2 is lighter on the head and it's stock pads are softer than the stock 500 pads. 

So I'd recommend the x2 to someone wanting to try that type of sig without spending an arm and a leg.


----------



## JoeDoe

Forgot to add that the x2 sounds way better unamped than the 500.


----------



## Rzkr

I agree! In my A B comparisons I thought they were very, very similar in signature and I was surprised by how close the X2 was to the 500 in sound quality and it is definitely more comfortable. . It really is an amazing value.


----------



## TontonJoK

interesting

Do I get more low end and thickness with the Philips ?? I guess It will have less mediums and details than Sennheiser what is not a issue with Minimal house and electro house,

I'm looking for a pair for listening exclusively E.D.M, I have the 800's for the rest


----------



## TontonJoK

I can find some cheap X1 around X2 are coming closed to 2 hands HE 500


----------



## Rzkr

Can anyone tell me if the RTC 5654 tubes are the same as the Mullard CV4010? Tesla tubes has the RTC tubes listed as the Mullard CV4010.


----------



## BattousaiX26

rzkr said:


> Can anyone tell me if the RTC 5654 tubes are the same as the Mullard CV4010? Tesla tubes has the RTC tubes listed as the Mullard CV4010.


 
 Definitely not. Mullards CV4010 sounds warmer and bass fuller while RTC 5654 sounds thin in the bass department and is brighter.


----------



## Rzkr

I didn't think so but their listing is confusing. Does anyone know where I can find tubes for the Pan Am? I'm not finding the Mullards, Voskods or Telefunkens anywhere but Ebay and those listings seem a bit sketchy.


----------



## BattousaiX26

have you tried tubemuseum?


----------



## TonyNewman

rzkr said:


> I didn't think so but their listing is confusing. Does anyone know where I can find tubes for the Pan Am? I'm not finding the Mullards, Voskods or Telefunkens anywhere but Ebay and those listings seem a bit sketchy.


 
  
 I had good satisfaction ordering Telefunkens from these folks:
  
LINK
  
 I have ordered about 5 pairs of Teles from them and a bunch of other tubes as well. They ship out of HongKong - had one small issue where the wrong tubes were shipped - it was resolved speedily and professionally. Nothing but good things to say about them.


----------



## Rzkr

Thanks guys, I'll give both places a look. I appreciate the help.


----------



## jayl00

Just got a Pan Am & Passport combo. (Just joined the board also and this is the 1st post ...)
  
 Have a question regarding set up of Passport: can I leave the '12v' of Passport connected to the wall wart all the time while the 'output' from Passport is connected to '12v' of Pan Am? Do you see this shortening battery life, or causing any negative effect to the sound quality? I am essentially trying to use Passport in lieu of Gateway.


----------



## hardbop

That's what I do and I've had no issues in the year I've had the PanAm.


----------



## NZheadcase

jayl00 said:


> Just got a Pan Am & Passport combo. (Just joined the board also and this is the 1st post ...)
> 
> Have a question regarding set up of Passport: can I leave the '12v' of Passport connected to the wall wart all the time while the 'output' from Passport is connected to '12v' of Pan Am? Do you see this shortening battery life, or causing any negative effect to the sound quality? I am essentially trying to use Passport in lieu of Gateway.


 
  
 Congrats. The Pan Am is a very good amp. 
  
 I see no problem here, although I would advise you to do a full charge cycle at least once a month. Disconnect it from the wallwart and use until fully out or close to out of juice. Not doing so shortens the lifespan of the batteries in the passport. Especially avoid not using the passport and leaving it to discharge on its own for long periods of time. 
  
 My own passport has, sadly, gone to that great meet in the sky. At least I still have the gateway.


----------



## jayl00

Thanks for the replies. That makes me feel better keeping the configuration.
  
 Quote:


> Have a question regarding set up of Passport: can I leave the '12v' of Passport connected to the wall wart all the time while the 'output' from Passport is connected to '12v' of Pan Am? Do you see this shortening battery life, or causing any negative effect to the sound quality? I am essentially trying to use Passport in lieu of Gateway.


 
  
 However, I have a special favor to ask somebody. The seller of Pan Am/Passport had only the short connecting cable for the power connection between them. In order to connect two in the way mentioned above (Passport 'output' to Pan Am '12v') with the short cable, I cannot stack them up. They must be placed side-by-side. I would need one of the longer cables of the same. I know both Gateway and Passport come with a set of three cables with varying lengths, each. For those of you who have both Gateway and Passport, you probably have some of these cables unused. Would anyone sell or gift me the longer cable? I will probably need the longest one of three to be able to stack up these (which I prefer to do). Please PM me. Thanks.


----------



## jayl00

jayl00 said:


> However, I have a special favor to ask somebody. The seller of Pan Am/Passport had only the short connecting cable for the power connection between them. In order to connect two in the way mentioned above (Passport 'output' to Pan Am '12v') with the short cable, I cannot stack them up. They must be placed side-by-side. I would need one of the longer cables of the same. I know both Gateway and Passport come with a set of three cables with varying lengths, each. For those of you who have both Gateway and Passport, you probably have some of these cables unused. Would anyone sell or gift me the longer cable? I will probably need the longest one of three to be able to stack up these (which I prefer to do). Please PM me. Thanks.


 
 I am good. A kind member of the board is sending me a longer cable. Thanks.


----------



## TonyNewman

Really enjoying the TungSol tubes in my PanAm. Only about 20 hours on them right now, so still not fully burned in, but some initial impressions are that the mids and treble are good, but not quite as good as the Teles, but the bass is wonderful. As deep as the Mullards without going "wooly" - which the Mullards tend to do.
  
 Very good tubes. If the mids and treble continue to improve these tubes might just be right up there with the Teles.


----------



## BattousaiX26

tonynewman said:


> Really enjoying the TungSol tubes in my PanAm. Only about 20 hours on them right now, so still not fully burned in, but some initial impressions are that the mids and treble are good, but not quite as good as the Teles, but the bass is wonderful. As deep as the Mullards without going "wooly" - which the Mullards tend to do.
> 
> Very good tubes. If the mids and treble continue to improve these tubes might just be right up there with the Teles.


 
 What year is your tungsol made and do you mind posting picture with box?


----------



## TonyNewman

battousaix26 said:


> What year is your tungsol made and do you mind posting picture with box?


 
  
 Sure. No date that I can see on the box or tube - I really have no idea on the year of manufacture.


----------



## BattousaiX26

tonynewman said:


> Sure. No date that I can see on the box or tube - I really have no idea on the year of manufacture.


 
 Thanks! So this is more bassy than teles?


----------



## TonyNewman

battousaix26 said:


> Thanks! So this is more bassy than teles?


 
  
 I think so, yes. Deep and controlled bass, whereas the Mullard can go a little "woolly" low down.
  
 Still not decided on the mids / treble - tubes only have about 40 or so hours on them. Want to put a few weeks worth of hours on them and then A/B with the Teles.


----------



## InebriatedGnome

My Pan Am just came in, courtesy of our own Steve Toney. I love this thing. This really is the old audio cliche, but my music has never sounded this good. I love that I can just sling it around in my bag and not worry about something breaking. And the French tubes are phenomenal! It sounds like a different amp with them in. There's almost too much bass for me, actually—but it was such a surprise the change in the sound. It went from being a pretty anaemic-sounded amp in the bass department with the stock tubes to something of a low-end monster—through the HD650, no less. 
  
 I do, however, need a Gateway/Passport for my (black) Pan Am. If anyone's looking to sell theirs, please let me know


----------



## TonyNewman

inebriatedgnome said:


> My Pan Am just came in, courtesy of our own Steve Toney. I love this thing. This really is the old audio cliche, but my music has never sounded this good. I love that I can just sling it around in my bag and not worry about something breaking. And the French tubes are phenomenal! It sounds like a different amp with them in. There's almost too much bass for me, actually—but it was such a surprise the change in the sound. It went from being a pretty anaemic-sounded amp in the bass department with the stock tubes to something of a low-end monster—through the HD650, no less.
> 
> I do, however, need a Gateway/Passport for my (black) Pan Am. If anyone's looking to sell theirs, please let me know


 
  
 I can recommend the Telefunken tubes. A little hard to find, but worth the effort. They beat anything else I have tried (Tung-sol / Mullard / Voshkod(sp?) / RTC / RCA ... etc).
  
 If you want deep and strong bass I recommend the Mullards or the Voshkods - both are strong in the bass. I didn't find the French RTCs strong in bass at all - more pointed at the high end.


----------



## InebriatedGnome

Maybe it's the mix I was listening to, or perhaps my bass tolerance is waaaay lower than I thought it was. I actually got a few tubes with the amp; I don't think I have any Telefunken but I do have the Mullard CV4010 with me right now. I'll have to hunt around for some.
  
 I really wish I had a Passport right now, though; being able to actually use this thing on the go would be ideal. Do you know of any alternative power supplies I might be able to use?


----------



## TonyNewman

inebriatedgnome said:


> Maybe it's the mix I was listening to, or perhaps my bass tolerance is waaaay lower than I thought it was. I actually got a few tubes with the amp; I don't think I have any Telefunken but I do have the Mullard CV4010 with me right now. I'll have to hunt around for some.
> 
> I really wish I had a Passport right now, though; being able to actually use this thing on the go would be ideal. Do you know of any alternative power supplies I might be able to use?


 
  
 I have the passport and gateway in a nice 3 stack. I guess any 12 volt supply might do the job, but I'm no expect in such matters, so please take that with a huge grain of salt.
  
 I view the PanAm as "transportable" rather than "portable". It is just too big and bulky and fragile with the protruding tubes to carry around IMHO. I use mine as a "mini-desktop" unit in the office, taking it to and from each day. Even that has me a little concerned that I might break it - so I am replacing it with a Simaudio 230HAD for the office and will take the PanAm home and use it as a desktop DAC/Amp for my PC. YMMV.


----------



## hardbop

Keep an eye on http://warehousedeals.aloaudio.com/ to see if PassPorts show up again.
  
  
 EDIT: and... tada! 
  
 http://warehousedeals.aloaudio.com/the-passport-silver
  
 You can also get the zippered carrying pouch, too.


----------



## InebriatedGnome

Thank you! I saw that one earlier but wanted to wait for a black one to match my Pan Am. Beggars can't be choosers though, I suppose. I have a carry-on too.
  
 I do think the Pan Am can be a portable amp for bus or library use to be honest—packing the tubes into some narrow cardboard cylinders full of cotton wool and putting those in the Carry On seems like it'll work fine. The trouble is just finding a power supply.


----------



## hardbop

The black versions sold out long before the silver.


----------



## InebriatedGnome

The light on my power supply was orange earlier and is now red. What does this mean?
  
 Edit: when I turn the amp off, the light reverts back to green. Is this just showing that the amp is connected?


----------



## TontonJoK

yes


----------



## JoeDoe

Well gents, I couldn't do it. I sold the Pan Am to recoup funds from the WA7. Then I sold it to free up some cash for the wife's student loans. Now I've gone and traded for another Pan Am so I suppose I'm back in the club! Hopefully the new one will be in by the weekend!


----------



## poweredbyjae

joedoe said:


> Well gents, I couldn't do it. I sold the Pan Am to recoup funds from the WA7. Then I sold it to free up some cash for the wife's student loans. Now I've gone and traded for another Pan Am so I suppose I'm back in the club! Hopefully the new one will be in by the weekend!


 

 Congrats, welcome back to the club.  Have to ask, what tubes are you using and are you using a Gateway, Passport or rolling with the wall wart?


----------



## JoeDoe

poweredbyjae said:


> Congrats, welcome back to the club.  Have to ask, what tubes are you using and are you using a Gateway, Passport or rolling with the wall wart?


 
 Thanks! I've got the Gateway and at the moment using the RTCs, but I've got Mullards as well. Back when I had my first stack, my favorite tube (over the Teles or Mullards) was the Raytheon JRP 6AK5. If I can sell my Voskhods and Tung Sols, I'll pick up a pair of those again!


----------



## jeffu

Hey all, I have a quick question about the ALO Pan Am.  Obviously it's been discontinued, which is sad, it sounds like a great little unit and a good way for me to start exploring Tubes without breaking the bank.  I'd love to get one of the Woo WA7's, but it's a lot of $$ right now.
  
 So I see there's a couple of Pan Am's for sale on the used forum - one comes with the Gateway and a few tubes for $550 - the other is the Pan Am with the Passport, but the battery is pretty much shot according to the posting, that one goes for $350.  While I don't see ever really using this with battery power or needing to be that portable and the lower price is appealing - is there an advantage to getting the model with the Gateway vs. getting the one with the dead battery Passport?  Even though the battery is shot, is it still better to run the power through the Passport?
  
 Just not sure which way to go - thanks for any advice!


----------



## JoeDoe

jeffu said:


> Hey all, I have a quick question about the ALO Pan Am.  Obviously it's been discontinued, which is sad, it sounds like a great little unit and a good way for me to start exploring Tubes without breaking the bank.  I'd love to get one of the Woo WA7's, but it's a lot of $$ right now.
> 
> So I see there's a couple of Pan Am's for sale on the used forum - one comes with the Gateway and a few tubes for $550 - the other is the Pan Am with the Passport, but the battery is pretty much shot according to the posting, that one goes for $350.  While I don't see ever really using this with battery power or needing to be that portable and the lower price is appealing - is there an advantage to getting the model with the Gateway vs. getting the one with the dead battery Passport?  Even though the battery is shot, is it still better to run the power through the Passport?
> 
> Just not sure which way to go - thanks for any advice!


 
 Either of the additional PSU's will show some improvement in sound quality. Supposedly, the Passport is a hair better since it completely isolates from 'dirty' power, but for some (myself included) I didn't hear an appreciable difference between it and the Gateway. If you're going to be taking your PA on the road somewhat regularly, the Passport is the way to go, but if it's mainly going to sit on your desk, I'd go the Gateway route and grab some nice upgrade tubes.


----------



## jeffu

Thanks Joe - anyone have any idea if the battery is replaceable in the Passport?  That's the thing, since the batter is shot, according to the posting, it also makes me lean towards the unit with the Gateway.


----------



## JoeDoe

jeffu said:


> Thanks Joe - anyone have any idea if the battery is replaceable in the Passport?  That's the thing, since the batter is shot, according to the posting, it also makes me lean towards the unit with the Gateway.




I don't remember. A quick email to ALO would tell ya!


----------



## Balinus

Hello!
  
 just bought a used Pan Am with Passport. I'm looking to get the Gateway (i.e. desktop set-up). But I can't find it anywhere... Any idea where I should look?


----------



## hardbop

I haven't seen any PanAm stuff on http://warehousedeals.aloaudio.com/all-products in a while.
  
 I've only ever used the PanAm with the Passport, so I don't see any reason you should have to worry too much about it. I did, however, snag a second Passport the last time it went on sale, though.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Guys I've got these tubes:
 - Mullards CV4010
 - GE JAN 5654W
 - EI Yugos 6hm5
 - Siemens 5654W
 - Voskhod 6zh1p-ev
  
 What other tubes will complement my collection? Telefunkens? Sylvanias or Tung-Sols? I've been looking hard for a while, growing bored with my tubes.


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## JoeDoe

williamleonhart said:


> Guys I've got these tubes:
> - Mullards CV4010
> - GE JAN 5654W
> - EI Yugos 6hm5
> ...


 
 I highly recommend the NOS Raytheon JRC 6AK5. To these ears, they were better than the Telefunkens and the Mullards. And they don't cost an arm and a leg!


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## WilliamLeonhart

joedoe said:


> I highly recommend the NOS Raytheon JRC 6AK5. To these ears, they were better than the Telefunkens and the Mullards. And they don't cost an arm and a leg!


 
 Thanks for the recommendation. Are these the ones?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AK5W-5654-RAYTHEON-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-/262396446387?hash=item3d180c06b3:g:BiQAAOSwIUNXF1vo


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## JoeDoe

williamleonhart said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. Are these the ones?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AK5W-5654-RAYTHEON-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-/262396446387?hash=item3d180c06b3:g:BiQAAOSwIUNXF1vo




Close but not quite! The ones I recommended are these, the military version: 

https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/191697504167


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## Balinus

hardbop said:


> I haven't seen any PanAm stuff on http://warehousedeals.aloaudio.com/all-products in a while.
> 
> I've only ever used the PanAm with the Passport, so I don't see any reason you should have to worry too much about it. I did, however, snag a second Passport the last time it went on sale, though.


 

 Thanks for the link, I'll look there. 
  
 I'm not overly worried about the Passport (only ~20 charging cycle), it's just that I'll use my setup at the office, where the Pan Am would be connected 100% of the time.
  
 I wonder if I'll be able to trade the Passport for the Gateway with someone...


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## WilliamLeonhart

joedoe said:


> Close but not quite! The ones I recommended are these, the military version:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/191697504167


 
 Wonderful. I'm gonna save up for them. Is there any other tubes that you feel complement these well?


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## hardbop

The Telefunken and Cifte tubes are my go-to.


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## exsomnis

williamleonhart said:


> Wonderful. I'm gonna save up for them. Is there any other tubes that you feel complement these well?


 
  
 Have a look through the tube rolling thread - http://www.head-fi.org/t/657870/alo-the-pan-am-the-tube-rolling-thread.


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## WilliamLeonhart

exsomnis said:


> Have a look through the tube rolling thread - http://www.head-fi.org/t/657870/alo-the-pan-am-the-tube-rolling-thread.


 
 I did sub to that thread first, but it doesn't seem to be too active...


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## JoeDoe

williamleonhart said:


> Wonderful. I'm gonna save up for them. Is there any other tubes that you feel complement these well?




 I feel like the Teles might be redundant if you have the Raytheon's. I have not however, heard the Frenchy's


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## Balinus

Just received my Pan Am. Nice sound! Got 3 pairs of tubes : RTC, Siemens and the default one (don't remember the name). So far, with limited listening, I prefer the RTC. The signature is rounder I think.
  
 Not easy to configure Linux with DAC units... :/ Any hints or how-to somewhere?


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## Balinus

What would you recommend for new tubes, considering I have the RTC 5654, Siemens 6AK5 and the stock tubes that came with the unit? I was looking for the Mullards (but there are somewhat "pricey"). What would complement the current set? I prefer warmer sound, but I seems to get that sound with the RTC. Would the Mullard be a step above with respect to "warm" sound ?
  
 Thanks!


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## JoeDoe

balinus said:


> What would you recommend for new tubes, considering I have the RTC 5654, Siemens 6AK5 and the stock tubes that came with the unit? I was looking for the Mullards (but there are somewhat "pricey"). What would complement the current set? I prefer warmer sound, but I seems to get that sound with the RTC. Would the Mullard be a step above with respect to "warm" sound ?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 The Mullards are gonna be a little warmer as would a Telefunken. My highest recommendation goes for the Raytheon JRC 6AK5 though. Those are such an awesome little tube, and they don't cost an arm and a leg!


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## Balinus

joedoe said:


> The Mullards are gonna be a little warmer as would a Telefunken. My highest recommendation goes for the Raytheon JRC 6AK5 though. Those are such an awesome little tube, and they don't cost an arm and a leg!


 

 Thanks!
  
 is the Raytheon JRP the same as JRC? I found some Raytheon JRP 6AK5 from 1952.


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## JoeDoe

balinus said:


> Thanks!
> 
> is the Raytheon JRP the same as JRC? I found some Raytheon JRP 6AK5 from 1952.




My mistake. It should be JRP


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## Balinus

ok, thanks!
  
 I see grey and black plate with the Raytheon JRP. What would be best? I'm guessing black plate.


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## JoeDoe

balinus said:


> ok, thanks!
> 
> I see grey and black plate with the Raytheon JRP. What would be best? I'm guessing black plate.


 
 Sorry, I can't comment on the different plates as I've never had both to compare.


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## BattousaiX26

Anyone tried the pan am with the Hifiman HE-1000?


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## DarktoreS

battousaix26 said:


> Anyone tried the pan am with the Hifiman HE-1000?


 
  
 I search a Alo Panam for my Edition-X...


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## WhiskeyJacks

battousaix26 said:


> Anyone tried the pan am with the Hifiman HE-1000?




I used it with the he 560s for a good while i ended up upgrading to balanced nfb 28 dac and amp woth more power it was still a very good combo


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## vinakro

Hi guys, 

I have a chance of getting a Pan Am + Passport for just under $440usd. Can anyone provide a comparison to a Vali2 and/or Modi 2? I can get a Schiit stack for about $315usd.

I mainly use an Ether C, and am concerned about the low impedance. 

Cheers


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## JoeDoe

vinakro said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have a chance of getting a Pan Am + Passport for just under $440usd. Can anyone provide a comparison to a Vali2 and/or Modi 2? I can get a Schiit stack for about $315usd.
> 
> ...




I loved the PA more than either of the original Vali or Modi. Not to mention the PA is transportable and less expensive to roll tubes! The dac in the PA wasn't astounding, but then again neither was the Modi. My vote is for the ALO stuff over the schiit.


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## Keevs

I get a constant buzz on a 2nd hand Pan Am I bought. I use the tube covers, moves it about a foot from the PC. I don't have a gateway or passport . 

Anyone tried the iFi iPower? Or is it better to get a linear PSU like a Teradek 12v one?


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## hardbop

Mine developed a buzz when I combined it with my turntable , but only after I moved. It didn't matter which outlets I used, the noise floor would be way too high.
  
 I tracked it down to the wall wart and the passport. There's no noise when it runs off battery, but it returns when I plug it back in and fire up an LP.


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## Keevs

Thanks @hardbop. Sounds like the wall wart. Its quite with my HD650 but not with the Shure 846. Which is a bummer. Might need to look for a aftermarket battery or linear PSU.


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## yamsylorenzo

Hi! Would just like to know if pan am is warm or just neutral? Would sound sig upon tube rolling (planning on getting siemen, mullard, and RTC) change? And if someone had tried driving it with HD650s?  How was the sound quality. Thanks!


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## palchiu

Will ALO have Pan Am successor?


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## BattousaiX26

yamsylorenzo said:


> Hi! Would just like to know if pan am is warm or just neutral? Would sound sig upon tube rolling (planning on getting siemen, mullard, and RTC) change? And if someone had tried driving it with HD650s?  How was the sound quality. Thanks!


 
 Pan Am can be warm or neutral depending on the tube you use. For the HD 650, mullards and voshkod tubes are the way to go. The HD 650 has an excellent pairing with the pan am.


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## BattousaiX26

palchiu said:


> Will ALO have Pan Am successor?


 
 I think their CDM is the successor.Honestly, I still think that pan am is better for harder to drive headphones than the CDM.


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## Keevs

My passport battery is now only lasting 45 minutes . Any ideas on how to replace the battery pack within the passport case?


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## WhiskeyJacks

yamsylorenzo said:


> Hi! Would just like to know if pan am is warm or just neutral? Would sound sig upon tube rolling (planning on getting siemen, mullard, and RTC) change? And if someone had tried driving it with HD650s?  How was the sound quality. Thanks!


 
 The Pan Am is a very clean and detailed amp for being a tube amp, I have used it as both a DAC/ Amp and as a dedicated amp to another higher quality DAC. Now with particular tubes it does get a warmer signature, but from the the Mullards I had and if I recall correctly it was neutral with slight warmth, a nice midrange, and detailed but musical. I think it is a great all in one unit if you can find one on sale or used it is definitely worth having, As far as HD650s, I am not a 100% how they sound with them but they sounded very good with my HD600, so it should drive it to adequate levels.


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## yamsylorenzo

whiskeyjacks said:


> The Pan Am is a very clean and detailed amp for being a tube amp, I have used it as both a DAC/ Amp and as a dedicated amp to another higher quality DAC. Now with particular tubes it does get a warmer signature, but from the the Mullards I had and if I recall correctly it was neutral with slight warmth, a nice midrange, and detailed but musical. I think it is a great all in one unit if you can find one on sale or used it is definitely worth having, As far as HD650s, I am not a 100% how they sound with them but they sounded very good with my HD600, so it should drive it to adequate levels.




Thanks! Just got mine for only $290.00. Really satisfied with how well it sounds.  I'm using siemens and RTC. The mullards and voskhods are on its way.


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## WhiskeyJacks

I just received on these again, lol and paired it with my HD6XX I am looking forward to pairing with a DAC once I have the money for it since a lot of my files are past 96khz. But wanted to ask if anyone knew what the interconnects were called that go from power supply to amp dc 12v to dc male 12v? I need the longest one that comes with the panam and have been trying to find a generic one or one to buy from an owner bad, so any help or ideas/knowledge would be grateful


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## Slim1970

A few years late to the party but I just picked this stack up and I'm very impressed with it sound. I was looking for a bedroom setup and decided to go for this tube hybrid. Luckily for me a fellow Head-Fier was selling his and I was able to purchase it in excellent condition. To date, I've tried these tubes and I've listed them in order of my preference for best sound:

Cifte EF95 (5654) [Excellent dynamics and bass. Nice treble extension and clarity with detailed mids. My favorite set of tubes for my Z1R's]
Mullard M8100 (CV4010) [Similar to the Cifte's but with more midrange warmth and a little deeper bass. The treble is detailed and pairs the best with my Utopia's]
Shyguang 6J1-Q (Stock Russian tubes)
Mullard CV4010
RCA 12ax7

I have a set of Voskhod 6ZH19-EV's coming to try but so far the Cifte 5654's and Mullard M8100's are my favorites.


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## WhiskeyJacks

Slim1970 said:


> A few years late to the party but I just picked this stack up and I'm very impressed with it sound. I was looking for a bedroom setup and decided to go for this tube hybrid. Luckily for me a fellow Head-Fier was selling his and I was able to purchase it in excellent condition. To date, I've tried these tubes and I've listed them in order of my preference for best sound:
> 
> Cifte EF95 (5654) [Excellent dynamics and bass. Nice treble extension and clarity with detailed mids. My favorite set of tubes for my Z1R's]
> Mullard M8100 (CV4010) [Similar to the Cifte's but with more midrange warmth and a little deeper bass. The treble is detailed and pairs the best with my Utopia's]
> ...




The voskhod ate very good in comparison to the Mullards giving a different sound that pairs well in contrast. Very nice low end extension and weight.


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## Slim1970

WhiskeyJacks said:


> The voskhod ate very good in comparison to the Mullards giving a different sound that pairs well in contrast. Very nice low end extension and weight.


Nice, I like having this little tube amp. I can tailor the sound to work with just about any headphone. This thing has a little power as well. 

I ordered my Voskhod's from overseas  and they should be here sometime in September. I can't wait to get a listen. I'm looking for a lively tube with good bass impact, a smooth and enveloping midrange, with excellent treble detail. Hoping the Voskhod's will fit the bill. The Cifte 5654's I have are definitely sounding good right now.


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## JD16

I just tried the Pan Am with HE-560 v2 and it did not sound good at all. It was very strange, my HE560 sounds better with the Monoprice DAC/Amp I have. Pan Am should have enough power to handle HE-560. I see a few others had similar experience.


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## exsomnis

JD16 said:


> I just tried the Pan Am with HE-560 v2 and it did not sound good at all. It was very strange, my HE560 sounds better with the Monoprice DAC/Amp I have. Pan Am should have enough power to handle HE-560. I see a few others had similar experience.



I disagree. The Pan Am doesn't output the kind of power needed for magneplanars - it didn't drive my LCD2 (never tried it with my LCD3) well enough, sweet but lacking punch and dynamics. And the built-in DAC is only so so to the point that I always use an external DAC. 

The LCD2 sensitivity is 101dB vs HE560 sensitivity of 90dB and this makes the HE560 even harder to drive. So if the Pan Am wasn't satisfactory for the LCD2, it would be much worse with the HE560.

When I do use my Pan Am, it's with my Sine or IEMs.


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## JD16

exsomnis said:


> I disagree. The Pan Am doesn't output the kind of power needed for magneplanars - it didn't drive my LCD2 (never tried it with my LCD3) well enough, sweet but lacking punch and dynamics. And the built-in DAC is only so so to the point that I always use an external DAC.
> 
> The LCD2 sensitivity is 101dB vs HE560 sensitivity of 90dB and this makes the HE560 even harder to drive. So if the Pan Am wasn't satisfactory for the LCD2, it would be much worse with the HE560.
> 
> When I do use my Pan Am, it's with my Sine or IEMs.



You are right, it did not sound good for me with the LCD 2 I had in the past, but some of my friends liked the combination. The reviews for Pan Am also praise the way it pairs with LCD 2. This lead me to believe it'd have enough power.

Still, it pairs fantastically with the HD600 I have.


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## Slim1970

Quick update. I got the Voskhod 6ZH19-EV in and they are quite the performer. With my Utopia's they give them more body and bass weight. The midrange is full, textured and warm. The highs are tone down but remain very detailed with good clarity. But if I'm being honest the clarity with the Utopia's and Hugo 2 is still better. All in all, the Voskhod 6ZH19-EV are very impressive tubes. They even work well with my Z1R's. I don't feel a need to change out the tubes to something different with the Voskhod 6ZH19-EV's in place.  

I also pickup the LCD-2 closed backs. I tried a majority of my tubes with them and I didn't like the pairing. The Pan AM has the power to drive them but the LCD-2 closed backs just didn't have any synergy with it. They sound's much better driven with my Hugo 2. I'm not sure what's keeping the Pan AM and LCD 2 closed back's from being an ideal pairing.


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## Paulo_Ricardo

Alguém já teve problemas com ruído no som? Eu uso a panela com o LCD-2 e quando faço uma pausa na música ou dou uma parada, percebo que há um ruído de fundo. Na saída para o iem, ao ligar o FLC8s, o ruído é bastante alto e desconfortável. Minha fonte é IFI POWER e não tenho o gateway nem o passaporte.


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## BattousaiX26

Anyone still rocking with their pan am this 2020? Just got an HE-1000 v1 and with the mullards cv4010 tube, the HE-1000 becomes very musical and technical at the same time. Can listen to the pairing all day


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## bogginhead

If anyone has a Pan Am they might be willing to sell or trade please pm me.  Thanks!


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## BattousaiX26

bogginhead said:


> If anyone has a Pan Am they might be willing to sell or trade please pm me.  Thanks!


Hope you can still find one, still a very good amp in 2020.


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## BattousaiX26

bogginhead said:


> If anyone has a Pan Am they might be willing to sell or trade please pm me.  Thanks!


If you ever find one, try it with sylvania gb-5654 tube. The best tube I have ever heard for pan am.


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## bflat (Apr 30, 2020)

Can anyone confirm the DC plug spec for Pan Am? Since the tip color is yellow I assume it's 4 x 1.7mm? I've tried to get an answer from ALO but no response for a week.

Thanks

Edit - rolled the dice on some adapters and DC plug is indeed 4 x 1.7mm. There are cheap adapters that covert the more common 5.5mm to 4mm.


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## DJtheAudiophile

Anyone have a ALO Audio Pan Am for sale?


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## hypersonic (May 1, 2020)

I'm willing to sell mine. It's a black unit + gateway combo, with original boxes. Together with the stock tubes, Siemens 6AK5 and Mullard 5654.
Please pm me if interested.


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## vincentc

Hello everybody, 

Does anybody ran into the dead battery problem for the passport? Any information on where I could find a replacement?


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## bflat

vincentc said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> Does anybody ran into the dead battery problem for the passport? Any information on where I could find a replacement?



Unless you can get a replacement from ALO, at least get them to give you the parts details if it's available elsewhere, Otherwise, you can look for a general purpose 12V battery bank on Amazon if you don't mind the different form factor.


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## elvispreasley (Aug 4, 2020)

Has anyone compared the Pan Am with Alo CDM? I had CDM before and love it a lot, but switched to the wall powered dac/amp and now waiting for Pan Am - to use it as an amplifier.
Also any experience of using Pan Am as a dedicated amplifier with your DAC? What's your impression?


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## elvispreasley

If you have Gateway power conditioner for sale - pls pm me with your offer.


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## BattousaiX26

elvispreasley said:


> Has anyone compared the Pan Am with Alo CDM? I had CDM before and love it a lot, but switched to the wall powered dac/amp and now waiting for Pan Am - to use it as an amplifier.
> Also any experience of using Pan Am as a dedicated amplifier with your DAC? What's your impression?


If I remembered correctly, the pan am has more power than CDM.


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## elvispreasley

BattousaiX26 said:


> If I remembered correctly, the pan am has more power than CDM.



Judging by the type of the tubes, that are using in Pan Am - there is nothing strange if they has more output power then CDM subminiature tubes. 
What can you say about sound signature difference?


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## BattousaiX26

elvispreasley said:


> Judging by the type of the tubes, that are using in Pan Am - there is nothing strange if they has more output power then CDM subminiature tubes.
> What can you say about sound signature difference?


The sound signature depends on the tubes you are using so I don't really bother comparing when I got to try the CDM. Hmm I thought the CDM is using a larger tube though


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## elvispreasley

CDM tubes are significantly smaller then the one are using in Pan Am. Also they need to be soldered on special mounting plate - to be used with CDM.


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## elvispreasley

Can PanAm rock in 2020? Hell yeah! 
Just got it with plans if using as an amplifier for my custom made DAC/AMP. I was thinking to add the warm body and weight to the sound signature of my DAC + add some more juice to low end and with PanAm I was successfully managed to achieve it! I'm currently using Soviet OTK-2 6G1P-EV tubes and extremely happy with the overall performance of my stack! 
With Hifiman HE4xx the amount of power is just way more then I expected! 
So, in general I'm extremely happy with my purchase and have a strong feeling that I will enjoy this great piece of equipment more and more)


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## BattousaiX26

elvispreasley said:


> Can PanAm rock in 2020? Hell yeah!
> Just got it with plans if using as an amplifier for my custom made DAC/AMP. I was thinking to add the warm body and weight to the sound signature of my DAC + add some more juice to low end and with PanAm I was successfully managed to achieve it! I'm currently using Soviet OTK-2 6G1P-EV tubes and extremely happy with the overall performance of my stack!
> With Hifiman HE4xx the amount of power is just way more then I expected!
> So, in general I'm extremely happy with my purchase and have a strong feeling that I will enjoy this great piece of equipment more and more)


Get sylvania gb5654 tube if you can still find one. For me, it is the best tube for pan am.


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## elvispreasley

BattousaiX26 said:


> Get sylvania gb5654 tube if you can still find one. For me, it is the best tube for pan am.



Thank you for advice, but I will stick with this tube for now as:
1. I totally looove - how they're sounds. 
2. Don't want to fall into the "tube madness", as I still have full box of tubes after I sold Alo CDM)


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## elvispreasley (Sep 2, 2020)

Found NOS Sylvania GB5654 and decide to follow your advice) Bought the lot of 5 of this tubes and in a few weeks will be able to try it out, comparing with my current Soviet tubes.


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## BattousaiX26

elvispreasley said:


> Found NOS Sylvania GB5654 and decide to follow your advice) Bought the lot of 5 of this tubes and in a few weeks will be able to try it out, comparing with my current Soviet tubes.


I'm glad you try the tubes. Please give us your impression once it arrived. The print on your tube is a little bit different from mine though, hopefully there is no sound difference


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## Freets (Sep 26, 2020)

Question:  my Pan Am (w passport) flashes at both the unit and plug and no longer functions.  I’ve seen several posts mentioning the issue but no solution response.  Anyone have the same...?

Knew I would regret not purchasing the Gateway...and here we are.


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## DrumSeb

Selling mine ! PM me 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/alo-pan-am.945972/


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