# minimalistic high end mm phono preamp diy ?



## miziq

Is there any minimalistic diy mm phono preamp schematics. Something on the size of benz micro phono preamp..

 Thanks in advance...


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## peranders

I have pcb's for "maximalistic" phono amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 QSXM3 is quite cool with chopper stabilized DC-servo! Overkill? Sure but it's cool!

qsxm2
qsxm3


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## miziq

thisis mm right ?

 hmm what is the cost of material..


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## peranders

Both MM and MC, even low level MC.


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## rickcr42

A good thread , very minimalistic :


http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...194#post109194


 About this :

http://www.users.nac.net/markowitzgd/phonopre.html


 interesting but no clue as to the sound :

http://www.linear.com/prod/datasheet.html?datasheet=202

 I built the one in this data sheet a while back,simple and not too shabby :

http://www.linear.com/prod/datasheet.html?datasheet=165







 a novel way to build it "dead bug" style from lidstrom :






 on these pages :

http://www.tanker.se/lidstrom/eng/


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## rickcr42

Discrete stage (i use one similiar at this time ):

http://diyaudio.com/forums/showthrea...threadid=28223


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## lini

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rickcr42* 
_I built the one in this data sheet a while back,simple and not too shabby :

http://www.linear.com/prod/datasheet.html?datasheet=165




_

 

That looks good to me - more or less a version of the simple Lip****z circuit, if I'm not mistaken. Should work fine with the LT1028...

 Greetings from Hannover!

 Manfred / lini


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## KTpG

I am also in the same boat as you... and have ordered parts for Thorsten's El Cheapo preamp, though I changed it a little. I left the parts the same, mostly, but I am only using one opamp socket instead of two. I plan on using dual opamps and my single opamps on an adapter to test to see which I like better. I am not using his recommended parts... I couldn't find them for my price level. I am using Wima FKP-2 caps in the RIAA filter, Solen output caps (no electrolytics here, either), and Elna Cerafine power caps bypassed with Solen and Wima. If I went with the dual socket, I only had to buy enough caps for two rails instead of 4... also a plus cost-wise. Total was just over $30 shipped... and I think it will probably sound really good.

 I was going to build RJM's, but it is fairly untested and unproved. He is the only one to build it... and he is the author... so it might sound better to him than it should... Thorsten's has been tested, is affordable, and pretty simple. I recommend it... but we'll have to see how firmly I recommend it later when everything comes in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perander's projects are quite nifty... heh but a little complex/expensive for me right now. (Thanks Peranders for your email informing me of them, though- I hadn't checked them out before... and in case you are wondering, I am needtubes from DIYAudio). Perhaps in a little while I'll order one of your PCB's for a phono stage and build it.


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## miziq

i found lt1028 on buerklin.com

 but is this the same chip LT1028ACN8 PDIP8 ? it is round 6 $.

 thanks


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## KTpG

I am not sure if it matters at this point... but I finished my Analog Addicts Phono Pre (by Thorsten) yesterday morning and cannot stop listening to it. I ordered all of the parts last Tuesday from Welborne Labs for $35 shipped. It was really cheap, considering what I got in it. It is warm, clean, clear, lyrics are absolutely perfectly clear. I set the pre up for dual opamps, and I could then swap in two singles on a Brown Dog if I needed. Using the OPA2604, it sounds just great. I am not trying to change your mind really... but just wanted to comment on it. This preamp with vinyl sounds BETTER than all of my CD's combined. They sound thin and a little harsh in comparison.


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## miziq

Can you post the link again to the preamp. What parts did you use ?


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## KTpG

Thorsten's circuit can be found here.

 I already had the opamp (I used an OPA2604 since I set the amp up to run dual channel opamps, and if I ever decide to run two singles, I can use an adapter), gold opamp socket, and teflon coated silver-plated copper wire. Of course... the gold on the socket and silver plated wire is not necessary, really...

 I ordered all of the other parts from Welborne Labs. I used Wima FKP2 small value caps, Solen for larger values, Elna Cerafine in the power supply, Vishay/Dale resistors all around except for the 681k resistor, which I used Holco for. You can see a picture here. It is about 75k... if you are wondering about the parts, I can point them out. Or if you want the exact parts list, I can write it out. I just had a bad experience on the DIYAudio forums... so I am going to go calm down with some music.


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## rickcr42

Quote:


 This preamp with vinyl sounds BETTER than all of my CD's combined. They sound thin and a little harsh in comparison. 
 

Told ya vinyl rules guys ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now it is time to get that sound with digital by going to a minimalist DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 I just had a bad experience on the DIYAudio forums... so I am going to go calm down with some music.


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## KTpG

Sometimes some people on the DIYAudio forums can be a little short... you know how it is. They get a little irritable... or something... and if you say something wrong they pounce. So, I said something wrong that I had heard and read before... and one guy attacked... or maybe I am off my hinges, I don't know. Anyway... I am calm now... no harm...


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## rickcr42

It is the nature of audio forums that "experts" sometimes step on toes or take a holier than thou attitude .Does not make it right but it is something i understand .

 i personally have been a registered member of the DIYaudio forium since its inception ,back when there was a toally different format and answers would go unanswered for weeks . Once the new forum was set up it grew at a rapid pace and now there is some information to be found there that is available no where else on the entire internet.

 But yet my post count for being a member all these years is still in the double digits at best . I see no reason to say anything unless i have something to add and avaoiding trouble is also good in my case because i do not handle adversity well and attack as a defense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am glad the phono stage worked out but you _really_ need to try it with the OPA637 at some point .It will bring the project to a new level man.


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## KTpG

I sometimes attack as a defense, as well... but usually I am asking questions and get treated as though I am totally wrong... which kind of puts me out of the mood to build anything to start with. Which is why I don't have a tube amp yet... tube people treat it like a religion and if what you want doesn't agree with what they think, they won't help you.

 I suppose you are right about the 637's... I have a BrownDog on order from Tangent... so I might try them out when it comes in. I do happen to have some 637's here. I just don't know if I can get the adapter in there... the resistors standing up on the board might block its use. oops on my part. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 For all intents and purposes, though.... this sounds really good. It needs a case really bad, though... shielding is somewhat of an issue... I am assuming because of the high gain in the circuit.


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## rickcr42

Quote:


 Which is why I don't have a tube amp yet... tube people treat it like a religion and if what you want doesn't agree with what they think, they won't help you. 
 

Headphone or speaker amp ? 

 it really is more than a religeon and opinions vary but but one thing all agree on is : if you don't know what you are doing it could actually kill you !

 The worst an opamp circuit can do is not work and you do not put your life at risk by building a cmoy or meta or break the bank .But get careless with a tube ampo and it can be "see you later , like when I pass from this earth".

 If you seriously want to get started in tubes you need to do one of the proven internet designs that have many builders so you can read more than one source of information amd get a feel for the project-how others crossed hurdles and in the end won out.

 an obscure or new project is a road to nowhere for the beginner unless someone is willing to take you under their wing and nurse you along .
 And there are also many tube headphone designs being built (no i will not point fingers) that are just not sound designs (yes i meant the .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) !
 Wrong ! All wrong ! but being copied and if it makes those buiding the amps happy who am i to say what is not correct ?

 They also would do better following either an established design and tweaking it or buying a kit for all the money spent.And that is another part of doing DIY tube amps-cheap it is not !

 Good iron is expensive and even cheap iron cossts more than a simple opamp with pc board.Add the cost of the chassis ,the hassle or machining the holes ,the enevitable hum you will get when you first power it up and then must re-route wires ,the heat,the electricity used..........

 then the tube rolling ......

 no ,not something to wade into half way at all so the guys that do this and understand the consequences of changing a single part will offer you no help until you _actually build something_ !

 Produce even a non functional amp and folks will line up to help you get that baby working but just ask theoretical questions and never build anything and not only will you mostly be ignored ,and answers will be the "go learn elkectronics" type.

 So a first amp should be A-simple and B-well documented on the net and C-cheap
 The next part is surviving the build (not electrocuting yourself) then streamlining it so it actually plays music and not just makes noise which to be honest most early attempts are.

 "noisy hum machines"


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## KTpG

Very true... I don't plan on getting zapped, though. heh

 I would really love to actually build something this time... a simple SET with 6AS7 on the output. Would give about 2.5W... which is plenty for me, I'd guess. I found a kit on the internet, but I am not going to go with that... I'll buy my own iron and such... and I have enough tube theory behind me from reading threads everywhere that I should be mostly ok building one. I might run into hum... but who doesn't. heh I just want a tiny little tube power amp to light up the corner of my home theater where my turn table is now. Since I now have the vintage connection through vinyl... I need vintage power as well. 

 It should be cheap... the most expensive part will be output and power transformers... but OPT's are only going to be around $20 each and the power tranny will be about $30. I think I could easily do the whole thing for under $100... well... maybe not including tubes... but close enough.

 If all else fails, I will at very least buy the 11MS8 tube kit amp that everyone is oh so familiar with.


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## rickcr42

oh simple ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	














 Couple of threads i have been following with interest .Not anything i need so a build is probably out but still cool for the simplicity (if i did build one it would be the simple 84) :

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/ma...sages/426.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/ma...sages/318.html

 Low power , cheap and simple . that fills most of the bill from above except for the "established" part but the threads are full of info and you can be sure a few are being built so the results will be out . 

 more ambitous but _serious_ amps are from the Angela site.
 The "Simple 45/2A3" is gone (still available from the JE Labs site) but in its place is the "JE Labs Stereo SE 2A3 2001 Edition Amp" .

 For more power the WE-91 and JE Labs SE 300B Amps . Both very nice but not cheap by any means with the iron and tube being costly .

 These are world class man .Not the ultimate but not too shabby either . I will dig into my personal "stash" of schematics and see what i can turn up on the 6AS7 (I know i have a good 6AS7 line stage schema with the EL-34 as the current source in a Mu stage !)

 I have the WE-91 and the JE Labs simple 2A3 but i need more power so i am looking at the Lyn Olsen Designs and am considering the PP300B . ( balanced PP all the way through but man ,the iron !the cost !)).
 But all recdent research is convincing me to go all PP through the signal chain and that means a total revamp and that is not an overnight thing for me.


 ***Edit****

 Man i must be tired.Right in with my other amp files mentioned above.The link :

http://www.angela.com/catalog/how-to/SE.EL34.html


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## rickcr42

http://www.angela.com/catalog/how-to/model.91.html

http://www.angela.com/catalog/how-to/SE.2A3.html

http://www.angela.com/catalog/how-to/300B.SE.html


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## KTpG

Nice little projects... I would love to go 2A3... but don't think I want to try that for a first time project. I like the SE EL34 amp that has changeable output tubes... that is cool and very helpful since I do have plenty of EL34 sitting around, as well as two 6550's. But, some of the iron in there might cost more than I was hoping for... I was really hoping to spend $100 or less... and I realize that this is very constricting, but when I am only using two tubes for stereo, it seems possible. However, I suppose since I have the output tubes, I could save money there and spend it on the iron... I'll compare later.

 I have a vinyl question, though... I built the Audio Addicts preamp, as you know... and it is not cased up, yet... so I understand having a little bit of hum, but the hum is not what I am concerned about. When I put the stylus on a record, I get this hum... and it isn't really a bad hum... so it is tolerable. What really bothers me is when the speaker cones jump so much while the stylus is on a record. I had my grills off for fun... and the woofers were jumping a LOT, though I couldn't really hear any sound other than the crackle of vinyl. What could be causing this, and what might I be able to do about it? Thanks


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## rickcr42

Sounds like your speakers are bass reflex/ported systems


 First you need to ground your turntable ground wire to the preamp common ground point to get rid of the overall hum level.this is an essential connection for a VPS (vinyl playback system)

 Then if you still have the "woofer dance" ,which can permanantly damge your speakers add a high pass filter to the preamp !

 A passive single pole high pass filter with an f3 of 15 to 25 hz will have little or no impact on your sound but can save you a speaker rebuild .

 The amps :

 Try the hammond iron or if you are really strapped for cash look at the edcor offerings .what you get with the better iron is obviously better sound but also you gain the frequency extrems-the bass and treble notes -instead of a rolloff at the ends.

 You can still enjoy the music with el cheapo iron and later when funds are available just upograde.

 good luck with both

 (if the pghono problem persists post again and we will fix it)


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## rickcr42

check out this layout for an EL34 SE amp


http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/ma...sages/335.html


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## KTpG

I suppose my turntable is in less than stellar shape...

 It does not have a base... I only have the chassis itself. The start/stop switch doesn't really start or stop the table. heh Well, it can start it, but it won't stop it. Anyway... it is being temperamental now. I tried to repair the switch... and nothing came of it. I just hope it is not worse off now...

 Anyway, I need a base. If only I had some thin boards.... I'll have to make a run to Lowe's or something. So, seeing as it doesn't have a base, it also does not have RCA connector wires as you normally see. Instead, it has RCA connections on the back underside. It also has no ground wire...

 What does the ground wire generally connect? Motor, chassis, what? Thanks... maybe this will help the hum and speaker dance. heh


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## rickcr42

no base ?

 no ground wire ?

_and still your turntable whips the old cdp ?_






 When you touch the tonearm does the sound of the hum change in pitch ?


 and look here for turntable base ideas :

http://members.myactv.net/~je2a3/turntables.htm

 This for set amp tranny info :

http://members.myactv.net/~je2a3/125ESE.htm


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## KTpG

Well, there is a mild hum always... and usually when I touch the tonearm, the hum does not change. However, sometimes it just becomes a LOT louder. It doesn't change in pitch. I would guess it to be a 50-60Hz hum... most likely from the motor.

 I do need to get the TT off of the motor and such... that probably would help somewhat. The speaker cones moving a lot, though is not related to the hum. I don't really know what it is... but it only happens when the tonearm is on a record.

 edit: I have noticed you PWK tag several times... and just remembered I wanted to ask about that... are you a Klipsch fan? I am too. heh I started with the PM5.1's and have grown to make my entire home theater out of Klipsch. And I am always wanting to buy more.... heh


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## rickcr42

Quote:


 are you a Klipsch fan ? 
 

only the vinatage stuff .I am running Heresy's right now and do not have the room for my sub that they really need for balanced sound so i am forced to use a bass control to compensate.I am thinking about a K-horn for a sub that even though it is big will tuck into a corner so seem smaller.

 but for dynamics and clarity , note separation-I am totally happy ! 

  Quote:


 Well, there is a mild hum always... and usually when I touch the tonearm, the hum does not change. However, sometimes it just becomes a LOT louder. It doesn't change in pitch. I would guess it to be a 50-60Hz hum... most likely from the motor. 
 

you need to get that sucker into a base asap and then tidy up the ground .You _should_ have a ground wire coming from the chassis that would normally connect to the ground lug of the phono stage (you did add a ground post right ?).If it is not there see if you can download the manual for your TT (google search) and put it right.

  Quote:


 The speaker cones moving a lot, though is not related to the hum. I don't really know what it is... but it only happens when the tonearm is on a record. 
 

i can tell you EXACTLY what it is and that something is _no base/suspension !_ 

 all turnatable are tuned by the base or suspension ,depending on type to , reject frequencies in certain areas-one of them subsonics.
 since you have no base OR suspension you are as far out of tune as you can get and anything will set the table off into a vibration mode . This is like really severe rumble and must be addressed if you are to enjoy your records.


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## KTpG

I just keep feeling worse and worse about this turntable...

 It sounds good... but the speaker jump thing is driving me crazy. I agree... it is because of lack of base. I made a makeshift base, though... with the thing on its spring feet... no matter. Didn't do a thing.

 To be honest... I don't feel like building a base for this thing... I'd rather buy a new TT with its own base... cause my base will never be what it needs. I am a horrible carpenter.

 I actually have the manual, too... but, really... it was no help to me. It shows dimensions for a base... but golly i am not that good of a carpenter. It requires round edges and such... no way that is gonna happen from me. I wish I could just sell this thing off... and recoup my loss... then buy one in better shape... but it came from Canada. The seller said shipping would be CHEAP to the US. Well, he lied. It cost me nearly $40 to ship that thing here... and it was not exactly what I expected from the pictures. Seeing as how it gives me such fits... I'd just rather get rid of it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I do opt to do this, do you have any recommendations on a sub $50 TT? (Maybe I'll push it so sub $100...) I don't know exactly what I am going to do..


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## rickcr42

contact me offline with the make and model of the TT and we will see if i can help you out on this without getting too banged up financially . I will be kinda busy with a project for the next couple of days but i _will_ get to you .

 Good vinyl playback is something not to be missed ,especially if you grew up only knowing digital


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