# Gustard U18



## JaMo (Nov 17, 2021)

Hi,
I took a quick decision and ordered the new Gustard DCC or USB interface when I heard it was out. I am a fortunate owner of two well working U16's which I find a very-good-value-for-money-performer and not to forget, with the possibility to use with external XO. The U16 uses the regular but very good Accusilicon XO's AS318B and as said, with the possibility to use an external better clock if You have, or are planning to get one. The new U18 uses selected higher spec XO's from the same (Accusilicon) brand and also have a reworked clock synthesizer for the external XO. The U18 also has a well thought through internal galvanic isolation, high performing USB receiver chip XMOS216. So based on my earlier very good experiences I "snatched" one of the very first U18's, I guess. Ordered the 12'th of november and living quite far from China I was almost shocked when the box from China arrived today.

As usual they pack with good protection. I have it put into work, warming up and for burning in for a period of at least two weeks. It is now running on internal XO's and it sounds very good already.

I am using the U18 for the moment replacing my Audio-gd DI20HE, feeding the Audio-gd R7HE Mk2 into my main rig HE7, Master 3 and Master 2's, Quad ESL63+Gradient SW63's. It is a brutal, neutral, revealing rig so it is easy to spot what's going on. Here is a few pictures. To be continued...
/Jan


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## JaMo

Well, three hours later this little box has started to give glimts of what it can do. First hour was lacking of bass but now there is a nice balance. The depth isn't that good yet but hey, It's way too early to say how this unit will mature but it is already up to and beyond the U16 performance-wise. I switched over to 10MHz ext XO (Mutec Ref10 SE). Locked on good and works fine. I went back to internal to follow those XO's maturing along with the electronics.

I am absolutely sure this unit will be as good value for the money as the U16 was even if it is about double the money. I also think the USB chip of choice XMOS216 is a much more rigid solution. To be continued..
/Jan


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## mantraone

t's a good interface I'm using with Rockna Wavelight DAC via I2S interface and as roon endpoint the SOtM sMS200 Ultra and trought USB to the U18.

2 question for me, did you tried with external MasterClock like C18 o new C18? I verified that for the best performance you need a good I2s cable, the commercial 8K HDMI 2.1 are not enought. I friend give me to test a Wireworld Silver starlight 7 and play very smooth and fluids with a great sense of analogical taste. 

Wich cable are you using?


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## JaMo (Nov 17, 2021)

I am using this cable: "Plan 4 for DSD - 0,5 m" https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4000255873784.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3e274c4duMUWGC . This is a very nice cable, smooth and easy flowing sound.

I am feeding with a piCorePlayer (sw ver.8.0 on RPi4B, inside the Simple Best PSU)(Linux, ALSA)

Yes I have tested the external XO with my REF10 SE120. It works very well but the U18 isn't ready to benefit from it yet. The burn in of all the electronics/XO's got to have its two weeks at least
/Jan


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## JaMo (Nov 17, 2021)

New discoveries.
The display fades when playing and only lights up fully when changing sample rate or when You push the buttons. This is good to save burn hours and degrading the display. By the way, I have replaced the display boards on both my U16's. Another, less good thing is that popping sounds or "pops" is introduced with this U18 with present firmware. The phenomena isn't new at all in this area but I never had any with my U16's. The pops appears sometimes when You go between PCM to DSD and back and occasionally between DSD sample rates. The pops aren't destructive at all but noticeable. I am sure Gustard will address this very soon.
/Jan


Edit. Correction! (13h) The pops appears now only when switching between DSD rates 64,128, 256. No disturbance with changing between PCM-DSD-PCM. We will see if it is a maturing matter or a programming needed. To be continued..
/J


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## jimmychan

How is it compared with your DI-20HE?


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## JaMo

jimmychan said:


> How is it compared with your DI-20HE?


It is way too early to do that comparison. For the moment around after ~24 h of burn in, the bass is a little over-accentuated and a tiny bit boomy. This will go back and forth and this is normal with this abnormal fluctuation in the first hour/days of the maturing process. However the mid and top is silk smooth and very nice. Right now I am on ext XO (Ref10SE120).

I think the U18 may be a serious contender to other DDC's out there. Also to the DI20HE. The U18 only have USB input for sound when the DI20/HE also has the S/PDIF.
If this XMOS216 input behaves better than what the ESS chip did in the U16, leaving us users/customers with a better experience along with high grade of performance they have got a home run I think. I haven't had any problems with my U16's but I do know people hating it for the instability and giving up, with a: "-Never a Gustard gear again!".
For those, I think it should be wise to reconsider. This unit may look dull but it have already showed me enough to understand that is a serious upgrade from the U16... in almost all parts of the design.

I will continue to report my findings..

/Jan


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## jimmychan

This will be a tempting for those owned DI-20HE like me.


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## JaMo (Nov 19, 2021)

jimmychan said:


> This will be a tempting for those owned DI-20HE like me.


Yes, it could be but in theory the HE part (regenerated power supply) in the DI20HE will be hard to compete with. I like over-engineered gears without compromises like in Kingwa's higher gears. Even so, I want to be aware of how good other designer-paths can take the performance.

The U18 is refined in many ways compared to the U16 except chassi, transformer and has much better regulators, more accurate XO's, optimized design based on better components and it is already paying off even if I am only on ~40 hours by now. I am using a filter on the power line (Simple Best Filter, European version, http://www.simplebest-gd.com/lbdypc )

The Sound this morning: - Wider and deeper scene, also placing and separation of instruments was better defined, lower frequencies better defined/focused, and better balanced. The "boomyness" is gone. I still miss some air. Mid is nice but higher frequencies varies from hour to hour with a fluctuation.
I fed it with high quality recordings yesterday and it did an excellent job then (~30hrs).

For the money, I can already recommend it based on what I experienced up to now with it. It is definitely a good step up from the U16. Excellent value for <USD500

I will listen much more this weekend
/Jan


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## sanvara (Nov 19, 2021)

Do you know if it uses the same fuse values as the U16? Just wondering if I bought one if I could use the same the same "audiophile" fuse. It definately made a good difference in sound quality when I swapped fuses.


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## JaMo

More than 50 hours now.

Better upper register with some air but now also a little recessed bass. The width and depth, separation is still very good for being these first days. The sound is clear and easy to the ears and shows (flashes) its capabilities now and then. I look very much forward to when the U18 have stabilized and hopefully come to "a blossom" where it can involve me more to the music in a more emotional aspect. It is doing much better than I could expect or hope for, this early in the burn in cycle. A set back-period shouldn't be too surprising. I am playing all kinds of quality music recordings in different formats on this box and it is already very enjoyable and is already also showing high end qualities. This piece of gear show already it has a very high performance standard both on internal and on external XO's.

This may very well be a best buy and a bestseller in its price range. I can absolutely recommend it. If it will reach the highest levels.... -I don't know. Anyway it's a bargain, If You have the need for a quality-DDC and have the budget, go for it.
/Jan


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## JaMo

sanvara said:


> Do you know if it uses the same fuse values as the U16? Just wondering if I bought one if I could use the same the same "audiophile" fuse. It definately made a good difference in sound quality when I swapped fuses.


I am using this U18 stock equipped to have a fair and relevant judgement on/for it. I think the chassis are the same=identical and Your fuses should work fine.

PM me. I can guide You some more./J


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## cglin222

So singxer su6 or topping u90 or gustard u18? Any takes or suggestion


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## JaMo (Nov 20, 2021)

I have never heard the SU6 or Topping U90 but the Gustard U18 has "sharper" electronics with unarguable choices of parts to design/build with. Better XO's, EXT XO ability working like a charm with the K2 synthesizer, top notch regulators, 16 core USB receiver chip...  I will compare it to Mutec MC3+USB with LPS, DI20HE, and Gustard U16's set to 90/98Mhz which I am very familiar with.

So far function is rock solid on all formats, performance is very good already and the SU6 and the U90 seem to add USD100 to the price. Go for the U18, it's a gem, no doubt.
/Jan


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## cglin222

JaMo said:


> I have never heard the SU6 or Topping U90 but the Gustard U18 has "sharper" electronics with unarguable choices of parts to design/build with. Better XO's, EXT XO ability working like a charm with the K2 synthesizer, top notch regulators, 16 core USB receiver chip...  I will compare it to Mutec MC3+USB with LPS, DI20HE, and Gustard U16's set to 90/98Mhz which I am very familiar with.
> 
> So far function is rock solid on all formats, performance is very good already and the SU6 and the U90 seem to add USD100 to the price. Go for the U18, it's a gem, no doubt.
> /Jan


What do you think about c18, would it improve sound or maybe c16 ? On top of u18 that is


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## JaMo (Nov 22, 2021)

The U18 is very good as it comes with those selected higher spec Accusilicon AS338's. I recommend You to start with it as is. It sounds really good.
To really benefit from a quality Ext XO You need to have the rest of the rig on a high level and in shape and in the best of cases also use the same time pulse (Master clock) also with the dac. The fact that U18 have this, now with an even more sophisticated synthesizer for the Ext XO is a big argument to chose this DDC.

If the C16 or the C18 will push the performance further..? I don't know. Good clocks are expensive and You should aim on -118 dBc/1Hz or better. I think the C18 has -110dBc/1Hz and it will help a bit but I think You can get a better clock for decent money from AfterDark. @FredA is a good guy to ask about this.
/Jan


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## mantraone

JaMo said:


> The U18 is very good as it comes with those selected higher spec Accusilicon AS338's. I recommend You to start with it as is. It sounds really good.
> To really benefit from a quality Ext XO You need to have the rest of the rig on a high level and in shape and in the best of cases also use the same time pulse (Master clock) also with the dac. The fact that U18 have this, now with an even more sophisticated synthesizer for the Ext XO is a big argument to chose this DDC.
> 
> If the C16 or the C18 will push the performance further..? I don't know. Good clocks are expensive and You should aim on -118 dBc/1Hz or better. I think the C18 has -110dBc/1Hz and it will help a bit but I think You can get a better clock for decent money from AfterDark. @FredA is a good guy to ask about this.
> /Jan


I'm iterested to develop the performance with external master clock, the natural one could be the Gustard C18 that is less expansive of your Mutec Ref 10 SE120 and probably the result better than use the old C16.

Why do you jumped direct on Mutec and do not consider the C18?


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## JaMo

mantraone said:


> I'm iterested to develop the performance with external master clock, the natural one could be the Gustard C18 that is less expansive of your Mutec Ref 10 SE120 and probably the result better than use the old C16.
> 
> Why do you jumped direct on Mutec and do not consider the C18?


A very relevant question. I started to test with cheaper clocks to get some performance lift and to learn from it. I tested with a few USD50 of different brands. I have a very revealing rig of high quality and the ext XO added gave definitely positive results. I had an internal struggle with myself. I know myself all too well and small step upgrades will be big money in the end and the shelf will be filled with too many unused XO's....So I decided to go to a "Shut up"-solution and contacted Mutec and ended up with the REF10 SE120. In my case I knew/know I will enjoy it even if it is crazy money for normal people. A good investment really. For me music and the evolution of high end gears is essential and great importance in my life. 
So there You have it. 
/Jan


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## mantraone

JaMo said:


> A very relevant question. I started to test with cheaper clocks to get some performance lift and to learn from it. I tested with a few USD50 of different brands. I have a very revealing rig of high quality and the ext XO added gave definitely positive results. I had an internal struggle with myself. I know myself all too well and small step upgrades will be big money in the end and the shelf will be filled with too many unused XO's....So I decided to go to a "Shut up"-solution and contacted Mutec and ended up with the REF10 SE120. In my case I knew/know I will enjoy it even if it is crazy money for normal people. A good investment really. For me music and the evolution of high end gears is essential and great importance in my life.
> So there You have it.
> /Jan


ehehe ok, and in your experience the price difference from Mutec Ref 10 and Gustard C18 could be "proportional or just a small step from C16? wich Digital converter do you use?


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## cglin222

JaMo said:


> A very relevant question. I started to test with cheaper clocks to get some performance lift and to learn from it. I tested with a few USD50 of different brands. I have a very revealing rig of high quality and the ext XO added gave definitely positive results. I had an internal struggle with myself. I know myself all too well and small step upgrades will be big money in the end and the shelf will be filled with too many unused XO's....So I decided to go to a "Shut up"-solution and contacted Mutec and ended up with the REF10 SE120. In my case I knew/know I will enjoy it even if it is crazy money for normal people. A good investment really. For me music and the evolution of high end gears is essential and great importance in my life.
> So there You have it.
> /Jan


Wonder if ref10 is 6x better than c18
I think the ref10 is 8000 and c18 is 1500 and having 15% off right now


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## DACLadder

Mutec has raised prices twice in the past few years.  I have a Ref 10 and performs great but there are other high end clocks.  The Gustard C18 clock has great specs.  15% off is a bargain.

But the U18 has better Accusilicons XO so no sense rushing to buy a 10M clock.  May or may not make your system sound any better.  But 10M can sound excellent - especially on a 10M DAC.


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## cglin222

DACLadder said:


> Mutec has raised prices twice in the past few years.  I have a Ref 10 and performs great but there are other high end clocks.  The Gustard C18 clock has great specs.  15% off is a bargain.
> 
> But the U18 has better Accusilicons XO so no sense rushing to buy a 10M clock.  May or may not make your system sound any better.  But 10M can sound excellent - especially on a 10M DAC.


Sorry for noob question a 10m dac is a dac that doesn’t use your typical 45/49 clock but a10m only? Like gustard x26 pro?


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## DACLadder

cglin222 said:


> Sorry for noob question a 10m dac is a dac that doesn’t use your typical 45/49 clock but a10m only? Like gustard x26 pro?


Yes, looks the x26 pro uses the same K2 clock synthesizer.  Connect a 10Mhz clock and the K2 circuit generates 45/49 clocks.  Much debate why it sounds as good as it does. 

Is the x26 pro 10M only?  I did not see XOs in the description.


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## JaMo

The X26Pro is a dual ESS ES9038 Pro chip based dac. I has most likely at least one 100MHz TCXO inside. Here is a quote: "X26 PRO uses a custom built high-quality femto-second clock generator which is integrated into a jitter reduction architecture." from this review : https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/gustard-x26-pro-dac-review/. Read under "*Tech Inside X26 PRO"*


cglin222 said:


> Wonder if ref10 is 6x better than c18



No. Clocks aren't linear priced to their performance, it is more of an logarithmic scale. You almost always have to pay a lot to get the upper levels
/Jan


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## JaMo

Go with the C18, I agree with @DACLadder, 15% off is a bargain. The C18 has four outputs, two w sinewave and two square wave outputs.


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## cglin222 (Nov 22, 2021)

JaMo said:


> Go with the C18, I agree with @DACLadder, 15% off is a bargain. The C18 has four outputs, two w sinewave and two square wave outputs.


Actually c18 is 1599 and 1359 with 15% off
I think this is still a good deal
 So what does the sine and square wave do to the sound? In theory


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## cglin222

And what’s the take on the denafrips Terra clock that don’t use 10 mhz
What clock is consider audio clock 10, 22/24, 45/49?


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## JaMo (Nov 23, 2021)

cglin222 said:


> Actually c18 is 1599 and 1359 with 15% off
> I think this is still a good deal
> So what does the sine and square wave do to the sound? In theory


It is a good deal.

Sine wave will be transformed/reshaped to square wave inside the dac's circuits. A high quality square wave can give a better result especially in lower/mid level gears. High end gears usually have a well thought trough conversion and both are equally performance-wise.

As Master clock 10MHz is studio standard.

In normal gears (dac's..) You normally derive useful clock signals from 22/24 or 45/49 and in some cases 90/98 Mhz oscillators. This to be able to play the following sample rates: 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 196, 352.8 and 384 kHz on PCM and DSD64, 128, 256, 512... ESS chips often uses 100MHz. The reason for going to higher frequency XO's is to get the phase noise down. (-dBc/1Hz).

A good clock function give more air, more detailed and laid back presentation to say it very short.

/Jan


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## MAURO16164

Has anyone ever used the Neutron Star3 clocks from NewClassAudio? What do you think? https://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=200


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## FredA (Nov 23, 2021)

Agreed with the recommendation of the Gustard c18 made by headfiers on this thread. I have no experience with it but its little brother (c16) has good comments and on paper, it is the best bang for the the buck, especially if you need multiple outputs. It is well worth a try. It looks like a high-quality device.

As for single output units, Afterdark is well worth checking too. The 3-ouput units like the one i own are still very good values, but not as much as the c18, on paper at least. Their top 3-output is around 4k. I am happy with mine.

An important note: never turn off your OCXO. They take days to stabilize and reach max performance.

Don't shop for frequency accuracy, like the atomic and GPSDO clocks offer. What matters is having ultra-low phase noise.


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## DACLadder

Fred is correct.  For 10M audio it is all about the oscillator's phase noise especially at 1Hz and 10Hz.  Atomic clocks are great at frequency stability but an OCXO can have better phase noise


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## hakunamakaka

I'm really interested in comparison between DI-20HE and this Gustard U18. I need just an usb Input as I'll be using it with my macbook for the start and maybe Digione player in future.
If these two come close U18 is a cheaper option for my desktop setup with utopias. Can someone shine some light regards "external XO" ? what are these and can this impact SQ in a noticeable way ?


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## JaMo (Nov 23, 2021)

hakunamakaka said:


> I'm really interested in comparison between DI-20HE and this Gustard U18


You will get my view on it in a couple of weeks when my U18 has got its "full" burn in period. (I wrote in "" because 2 weeks is when it has stabilized but it will most likely continue to better up a bit even after these 2 weeks

Please keep questions back to this threads subject, *Gustard U18*.

Enough light about External XO's has been discussed here. You can pick the importance in earlier posts here in this thread. There is a lot to find on the Internet to read, if You want to go deeper. There may also be threads here on the Head-fi forum to find good info in.
/Jan


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## JaMo (Nov 25, 2021)

Today 8 days. (192hrs)
It has been a journey with ups and downs and right now mid and high is in good balance. Bass is a little recessed for the moment when playing "standard" mixed recordings. imaging and separation also have sort of a set back right now. Has been better and will be again, I am sure. Well, we are only 8 days into the burn in period.

Anyway this DDC is well worth its money, that's a fact. Function is still rock solid on any formats and the sound is very good on both internal XO's and it benefits very well on the external XO. That said is that the PLL electronics in the K2 module works really good.

There is a lot to like with this little box. First, a very good value for the money. Smart fading display. Very stable. As said rock solid functions. I haven't had any glitch of any sort so far using linux player (piCorePlayer sw ver. 8.0 (on output setting= iec958:CARD=G20,DEV=0) for the XMOS chip.
The box is solid and pretty heavy in itself like also the U16 was. It will stay where You put it. You can push the buttons without any movement. Good. It has no "bling" it just does its job like a much more expensive pro-gear.

-If it can compete with the DI20HE from Audio-gd...? I still can't say. Lets give us one more week
/Jan


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## jimmychan

" -If it can compete with the DI20HE from Audio-gd...? I still can't say. Lets give us one more week
/Jan "

This will be the most interesting thing for the owners of DI-20HE.


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## Ludique

Let’s not forget U18 is at least half the size of DI-20. Space is money. Stacking is never a good thing.


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## JaMo

I think You should consider the deal tonight: https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/...oise-clock-synthesizer-dsd512-pcm768khz-xu216
Black friday Price: $474.99 with free global shipping
It is a bargin!
/Jan


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## cglin222

JaMo said:


> I think You should consider the deal tonight: https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/...oise-clock-synthesizer-dsd512-pcm768khz-xu216
> Black friday Price: $474.99 with free global shipping
> It is a bargin!
> /Jan


I think it was still 499 yesterday
But anyhow I ordered it today and using my 50 reward to bring it down to 424 
Going to connect to my x16 hope I get improved sound and still tempting to get c18 since it’s 15% off too


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## sanvara (Nov 27, 2021)

JaMo said:


> Today 8 days. (192hrs)
> It has been a journey with ups and downs and right now mid and high is in good balance. Bass is a little recessed for the moment when playing "standard" mixed recordings. imaging and separation also have sort of a set back right now. Has been better and will be again, I am sure. Well, we are only 8 days into the burn in period.
> 
> Anyway this DDC is well worth its money, that's a fact. Function is still rock solid on any formats and the sound is very good on both internal XO's and it benefits very well on the external XO. That said is that the PLL electronics in the K2 module works really good.
> ...


Have you tried using it connected to a windows machine or just linux? Hoping there won't be audio glitches like with U16 when it was releaed.


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## JaMo

sanvara said:


> Have you tried using it connected to a windows machine or just linux? Hoping there won't be audio glitches like with U16 when it was releaed.


No, I have not had it connected to any Windows computer. I think the risk of glitches like in the U16 is minimal. The XMOS USB receiver platform/chip is well known. 
/Jan


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## kvad

@JaMo Any chance of one last (almost final) impression before the Aliexpress sale ends tomorrow? Had been eyeing the DI20HE, but the price has made me kick the bucket, so if this is in the same ballpark that would be fabulous.


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## JaMo (Dec 2, 2021)

kvad said:


> @JaMo Any chance of one last (almost final) impression before the Aliexpress sale ends tomorrow? Had been eyeing the DI20HE, but the price has made me kick the bucket, so if this is in the same ballpark that would be fabulous.


Yes, I understand. The U18 does a great job, significantly higher than the U16. It has all the good things in terms of air, micro defined details with separation. My box has stabilized the bass now and the overall balance is good. But It is not really up on the level of the DI20HE (fully burned in and tuned by excellent firmwares and continuing evolution of them..).
The U18 is very good on what it does and acts as Pro gear. The DI20HE is a re-clocker for both USB- and SPDIF signals in. The DI20HE also benefit its regenerated power supply and the background is dead black.
I have the U18 behind a -70dB filter on the powerline and it is also very is silent, but not really in the same league as the DI20HE.
Don't get scared by the verdict so far.

Go for the DI20HE If You have a plan to upgrade towards high end, and have the funds and the volume/space for it and maybe the need for SPDIF reclocking. The DI20HE is a step up in size, performance and money.
The U18 comes close but not all the way. That said..The U18 is a very competent DDC and an excellent piece of gear for the price. I definitely recommend the U18. It is crazy good for the money asked.

This is what I can say at this state in the burn in period
/Jan


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## kvad

@JaMo That's very helpful, thank you for this and your impressions along the way! Think I might just go for it. With all the rebates/coupons/ali coins one of the sellers has it down to USD 436. Would love to get the DI20HE, but haven't acclimatized to paying USD 1k for a DDC yet (does not surprise me if that day comes, this is already twice the price of my previous DDC : )


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## sanvara (Nov 28, 2021)

kvad said:


> @JaMo That's very helpful, thank you for this and your impressions along the way! Think I might just go for it. With all the rebates/coupons/ali coins one of the sellers has it down to USD 436. Would love to get the DI20HE, but haven't acclimatized to paying USD 1k for a DDC yet (does not surprise me if that day comes, this is already twice the price of my previous DDC : )


I do the same. I think most people make incremental upgrades. Good deal to buy one now with the discount. Was able to get one down to $415 using various discounts and credit card cash back rebate. Pretty inexpensive upgrade once I sell the U16. I also bought an upgraded I2S cable.

Thanks Jan for giving some confidence that it's a good product.


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## cglin222

DACLadder said:


> Yes, looks the x26 pro uses the same K2 clock synthesizer.  Connect a 10Mhz clock and the K2 circuit generates 45/49 clocks.  Much debate why it sounds as good as it does.
> 
> Is the x26 pro 10M only?  I did not see XOs in the description.


Oh so you mean that instead of the 45/49 as318b clock connect 10m clock and let it generate 45/49 sounded better than using the internal of the 45/49


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## DACLadder

cglin222 said:


> Oh so you mean that instead of the 45/49 as318b clock connect 10m clock and let it generate 45/49 sounded better than using the internal of the 45/49



Yes, connect a 10Mhz clock and the synthesizer chip will generate the audio clocks.  The XOs can be turned off essentially.  Does not seem possible synthesized clocks can beat a crystal XO but it does in many cases.  Takes a very expensive 10M clock to get better performance.  YMMV of course.


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## DACLadder

Anyone using the U18 with a Linux source?  Just wondering about performance and stability compared to the U16 in my system.


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## jimmychan

DACLadder said:


> Anyone using the U18 with a Linux source?  Just wondering about performance and stability compared to the U16 in my system.


I am using the Raspberry Pi4 and Ropieee Roon Bridge. The result is very good in all aspects compared to the U16. I think Gustard learned from the U16 that all the shortfalls are gone with U18.

However I will return the U18 back to the dealer. It still has a distance with my DI-20HE.


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## DACLadder

jimmychan said:


> I am using the Raspberry Pi4 and Ropieee Roon Bridge. The result is very good in all aspects compared to the U16. I think Gustard learned from the U16 that all the shortfalls are gone with U18.
> 
> However I will return the U18 back to the dealer. It still has a distance with my DI-20HE.


Interesting and thanks for the report.  One thing Kingwa does on the DI20HE is use higher frequency oscillators (90/98M).  Plus HE power supplies, parallel data processing, and a lot of firmware flavors to customize sound tweaks for your system.


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## jimmychan (Dec 1, 2021)

U18 is a best buy in the 4xx price range. If you owned U16 or Singxer SU 1, 2 or 6, this is a very good upgrade.
DI-20HE is another class that won’t disappoint you, if you go straight to the top league.


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## cglin222

jimmychan said:


> U18 is a best buy in the 4xx price range. If you owned U16 or Singxer SU 1, 2 or 6, this is a very good upgrade.
> DI-20HE is another class that won’t disappoint you, if you go straight to the top league.


Su6 is like 650 msrp and have a super capacitor in it, can the u18 compete? Or surpass?


----------



## jimmychan

cglin222 said:


> Su6 is like 650 msrp and have a super capacitor in it, can the u18 compete? Or surpass?


I have owned SU1, SU6, U16 and U18, that is also my upgraded path. Personally I found U16 already beat SU6 in transparency, so in no doubt U18 beats SU6.


----------



## System54 (Dec 3, 2021)

Which connection do you use with the u18
and which was the best?


----------



## Matthew Willims (Dec 3, 2021)

Out of interest, have you had a chance to compare the U18 with a Mutec MC3+USB…. In particular one modded to be powered by a linear power supply?

I ask as I just sold my Farad Super3 powered MC3+USB and plan to replace with a U18 to use with an Afterdark Emperor Double Crown clock + a new Musician Aquarius R2R DAC. Planning to use I2S.


----------



## JaMo

Matthew Willims said:


> Out of interest, have you had a chance to compare the U18 with a Mutec MC3+USB…. In particular one modded to be powered by a linear power supply?
> 
> I ask as I just sold my Farad Super3 powered MC3+USB and plan to replace with a U18 to use with an Afterdark Emperor Double Crown clock + a new Musician Aquarius R2R DAC. Planning to use I2S.


Hi Mattew, I will do these testing's this weekend.  A question: -Did You use the MC3+USB with Ext XO master clock? ...at all?


----------



## jimmychan

System54 said:


> Which connection do you use with the u18
> and which was the best?


I have only tested the i2s connection. This is the best way connect to a DAC if it is equipped with i2s in.


----------



## Matthew Willims

I used the Mutec with a Farad Super3 powered Afterdark Emperor Double Crown. Incredible results.


----------



## mantraone

jimmychan said:


> I have only tested the i2s connection. This is the best way connect to a DAC if it is equipped with i2s in.


In my system, yes, Rockna Wavelight and SOtM sMS200 Ultra as roon end point, but for the best result the I2S cable I used the Wireworld starlight silver 7, very smooth, dynamics, fatigue listening.


----------



## Matthew Willims

Yes I’ve a Wireworld Starlight 7 on order for the I2S….. For the USB the best I’ve used is Gothic Audio Semperfi “The Outsider” pure silver….. Noticeably better than the Curious Evolved.


----------



## mantraone

Matthew Willims said:


> Yes I’ve a Wireworld Starlight 7 on order for the I2S….. For the USB the best I’ve used is Gothic Audio Semperfi “The Outsider” pure silver….. Noticeably better than the Curious Evolved.


I tested the Curious USB like 2 years ago and sounded nothing special, I really enjoy with the Wireworld Platinum 7 USB. Did you tested and Gothics better again?


----------



## Matthew Willims

Never tried the WW USB though someone who’s opinion I trust (another cable maker) tried the WW, Curious and Gothic and decided they wouldn’t bother with their own USB line after trying the Gothic. Says a lot.


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## JaMo (Dec 4, 2021)

Matthew Willims said:


> Out of interest, have you had a chance to compare the U18 with a Mutec MC3+USB…. In particular one modded to be powered by a linear power supply?


I have done some testing now.
All testing (almost) is done with the master clock (REF10 SE120) connected and active on the dac (Audio-gd R7HE Mk2) MC3+ USB and the U18.
U18 is connected to the dac with I2s (hdmi  https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4000255873784.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.5b266c37XEDRgK  Version 0,5m Plan 4 for DSD") .
The MC3+ USB is connected to the same dac with a good AES/EBU cable (1,0m DH LABS 110 Silver Sonic AES/EBU)
All cables and the rig itself is well burned in so the result is valid.

The U18 has matured now and sings very good that it competes and are equally good as the MC3+ USB with LPS. In fact the U18 is a tad more spacious already, this after two weeks with power on and playing music. The silence "black background" has gone to blacker and is now equal to the MC3+ USB. I also get a more precise separation of the instruments with the U18.

I have to higher my judgement on the U18 a bit more at this time. I have also tested the U18 on its internal XO's and Yes they do the job fine but with a good master clock (EXT XO) this little box really shines. So this new K2 clock synthesizer works very well.

So to wrap it up... The U18 connected with HDMI out and with a good master clock it wins over the MC3+ USB AES/EBU and BNC out on the same master clock. The MC3+ USB converts DSD to PCM. The conversion is very good so nothing to complain about. The U18 plays DSD material natively with excellence.

The MC3+ USB is a Pro gear (~USD1300), the U18 (USD499) isn't but it behaves like it. I have nothing on the negative side to say about this new DDC from Gustard. I like this box a lot. Buy it and let it burn in fully and connect it to a good master clock.. The R7HE Mk2 dac is a very good dac to use for this testing and to play all formats (PCM, DSD) beautifully on. And if You like me and a few more guys here, have the option to connect the dac to the same master clock, You are spoiled.

Later I will test AES/EBU and RCA outputs on the U18, but it it will be done next weekend.  Now it's music time in my home.
Have a nice evening.
/Jan


----------



## mantraone

Matthew Willims said:


> Never tried the WW USB though someone who’s opinion I trust (another cable maker) tried the WW, Curious and Gothic and decided they wouldn’t bother with their own USB line after trying the Gothic. Says a lot.


yes sound interesting, but depends in wich way the Gothic sound better then other because in my experience sometimes is difficoult speak in absolute value really depends in which system we go to test the cable. As example with solid state amplification is better if the cable make sound more "analogical" and flud but the same cable in a system with tubes amplification could be too smooth. And the same appens in my system the WW sound better than the Audioquest Diamond USB, by I fully agree with my friends with solid state amplification (Gryphon) prefer the Audioquest... So, it's importand undertand why one cable is better than anoter and not just "better".


----------



## Matthew Willims

mantraone said:


> yes sound interesting, but depends in wich way the Gothic sound better then other because in my experience sometimes is difficoult speak in absolute value really depends in which system we go to test the cable. As example with solid state amplification is better if the cable make sound more "analogical" and flud but the same cable in a system with tubes amplification could be too smooth. And the same appens in my system the WW sound better than the Audioquest Diamond USB, by I fully agree with my friends with solid state amplification (Gryphon) prefer the Audioquest... So, it's importand undertand why one cable is better than anoter and not just "better".


Aye, I’ve plenty of experience in this with speaker cables, RCA’s and USB cables between my two systems. I’ve not run I2S before so that will be interesting. I ran a Duelund pure silver coax cable with my previous Mutec with fantastic results.

For whatever reason my system seems to respond well to silver digital cables, though copper for analog.


----------



## cglin222

I took the plunge and got the u18 and c18 with it’s on sale last week and used some coupons
Though immediately I can tell that u18 is at least equal or better than singxer su6 (after 2 days)
I hooked up the c18 also and while I let both device turn on so far, I can tell a bit difference when using internal vs external clock
Since I can press the ref button to switch
With the c18 I do feel more organic voice and more life like with more instrument separation but it’s subtle but I am not sure if it’s placebo 
I’ll need my wife to do the button press and do a blind test on me
But u18 is definitely a keeper for me, probably will sell my su6…
Just hope c18 gets better


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## Matthew Willims (Dec 8, 2021)

cglin222 said:


> I took the plunge and got the u18 and c18 with it’s on sale last week and used some coupons
> Though immediately I can tell that u18 is at least equal or better than singxer su6 (after 2 days)
> I hooked up the c18 also and while I let both device turn on so far, I can tell a bit difference when using internal vs external clock
> Since I can press the ref button to switch
> ...


It will. OCXO clocks all need a certain amount of time to warm up and stabilize..... Likewise if you physically disturb it, takes time to stabilize. My AfterDark Emperor Double Crown takes about a month to stabilize after initial power on for example. It's about even with the Cybershaft OP20 though performance may in fact be better with a Farad Super3 LPS powering it.  

I'm super keen to receive my Gustard U18 and get it into use. It hasn't left China yet. Also waiting on a new Gothic Audio Semperfi "The Outsider" USB cable and a secondhand WireWorld Silver Starlight 5-2 for I2S


----------



## mantraone

cglin222 said:


> I took the plunge and got the u18 and c18 with it’s on sale last week and used some coupons
> Though immediately I can tell that u18 is at least equal or better than singxer su6 (after 2 days)
> I hooked up the c18 also and while I let both device turn on so far, I can tell a bit difference when using internal vs external clock
> Since I can press the ref button to switch
> ...


interesting but just one comment: if you switch from internal to external clock during the riproduction the uman brain will try to cancel the differences, my suggestion is listen first 20 sec of a track or segment of similar time, stop riproduction, mote setting to external master clock and start again the same 20 sec of a track. Repeat the comparison also from external to internal and understand if the difference are the same in the reversed sequence


----------



## mantraone

Matthew Willims said:


> It will. OCXO clocks all need a certain amount of time to warm up and stabilize..... Likewise if you physically disturb it, takes time to stabilize. My AfterDark Emperor Double Crown takes about a month to stabilize after initial power on for example. It's about even with the Cybershaft OP20 though performance may in fact be better with a Farad Super3 LPS powering it.
> 
> I'm super keen to receive my Gustard U18 and get it into use. It hasn't left China yet. Also waiting on a new Gothic Audio Semperfi "The Outsider" USB cable and a secondhand WireWorld Silver Starlight 5-2 for I2S


In my test only the Wireworld silver starlight 7 it's a big step with my DAC Rockna Wavelight and Gustard C18 interface, zero noise, dinamic and fluidity like no other cable.


----------



## Matthew Willims

mantraone said:


> In my test only the Wireworld silver starlight 7 it's a big step with my DAC Rockna Wavelight and Gustard C18 interface, zero noise, dinamic and fluidity like no other cable.



I might be able to afford the latest Wireworld, though not the prior Silver Starlight 7. That was about 4x the cost.


----------



## mantraone

you mean the "Silver Sphere HDMI"? I never compared in my system, but I read that the I2S performance is the same of Silver 7.0


----------



## Matthew Willims (Dec 8, 2021)

mantraone said:


> you mean the "Silver Sphere HDMI"? I never compared in my system, but I read that the I2S performance is the same of Silver 7.0


Cheaper though I believe



JaMo said:


> I have done some testing now.
> All testing (almost) is done with the master clock (REF10 SE120) connected and active on the dac (Audio-gd R7HE Mk2) MC3+ USB and the U18.
> U18 is connected to the dac with I2s (hdmi  https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4000255873784.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.5b266c37XEDRgK  Version 0,5m Plan 4 for DSD") .
> The MC3+ USB is connected to the same dac with a good AES/EBU cable (1,0m DH LABS 110 Silver Sonic AES/EBU)
> ...



So, it sounds like the U18 has ended up a touch better than the modified Mutec which is an excellent result.... How close do you judge it is now coming to the AudioGD Di20HE? I recall you saying previously is was close but no cigar?


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## JaMo (Dec 8, 2021)

Matthew Willims said:


> So, it sounds like the U18 has ended up a touch better than the modified Mutec which is an excellent result.... How close do you judge it is now coming to the AudioGD Di20HE? I recall you saying previously is was close but no cigar?


I have to come back on this, the coming weekend. And yes, You've read me right


----------



## hontored

To JaMo,

did you by chance hear the matrix X-spdif 2 ? Do you think the U18 would be an improvement ?


----------



## JaMo

hontored said:


> To JaMo,
> 
> did you by chance hear the matrix X-spdif 2 ? Do you think the U18 would be an improvement ?


Hi, No I haven't had a chance to listen to Matrix X-SPDIF 2, so I cannot comment on it. 

By the way.. I haven't been too well this weekend, with a cold, not worse than that but it have had a negative impact on my hearing so my plans to listen and test different outputs and doing a full comparison U18<->DI20HE, was sort of ruined and I have to give it a new try when I am fully cured.


----------



## hontored

JaMo said:


> Hi, No I haven't had a chance to listen to Matrix X-SPDIF 2, so I cannot comment on it.
> 
> By the way.. I haven't been too well this weekend, with a cold, not worse than that but it have had a negative impact on my hearing so my plans to listen and test different outputs and doing a full comparison U18<->DI20HE, was sort of ruined and I have to give it a new try when I am fully cured.


I wish you a rapid recovery.


----------



## JaMo

hontored said:


> I wish you a rapid recovery.


Thanks./J


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## Matthew Willims (Dec 15, 2021)

Nice, my U18 is in Brisbane. If I’m lucky it will be delivered this week.


----------



## norbert2nd

Has anybody of you guys noticed that the U18 does MQA-decoding? It is nowhere mentioned in any marketing material or document I have seen. No clue which "unfolding" stage is implemented. If you play an MQA encoded 44.1kHz FLAC-file to the U18 it displays 88.1kHz. For example from this album: "David Elias - MQA Track Sampler (any player works)".


----------



## Matthew Willims

No I hadn’t noticed. I switched from Tidal to Qobuz to get away from MQA. It’s a lossy format.


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## soumya.banerjee

Been using U18 since about couple of days. Coming from U16 to which I made several modifications in PSU section.
My main intent was to get a DDC that works out nice with CoreAudio / ALSA where U16 had issues once in a while even with 1.61 NFB. Wasn't expecting a significant sound quality jump. But I am surprised. That K2 DPLL synthesizer is doing some serious work. I am happy I didn't go with sheer _better_ jitter specs of Topping U90 and instead opted for U18.
With up-sampled PCM , it sounds so much more nicer.

Overall a happy customer here


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## soumya.banerjee

norbert2nd said:


> Has anybody of you guys noticed that the U18 does MQA-decoding? It is nowhere mentioned in any marketing material or document I have seen. No clue which "unfolding" stage is implemented. If you play an MQA encoded 44.1kHz FLAC-file to the U18 it displays 88.1kHz. For example from this album: "David Elias - MQA Track Sampler (any player works)".


You are right!
At first I was playing from UAPP. So I assumed the first level unfolding is happening within the app itself and the second level unfolding (Minimum phase upsampling) within an MQA renderer (case in point Gustard X16).

But then I played MQA directly from my Linux system, using flac decoder in to aplay. And Gustard U18 did the first level unfolding by itself and let the DAC do the remaining stuff.


----------



## soumya.banerjee




----------



## Matthew Willims

Installed my U18 this afternoon. A big step backwards than the Musician Aquarius built in USB implementation initially though I know that will change over the next few weeks. About 3 weeks for it to get to its best. I popped in a Gustard 630ma fuse I had on hand and have ordered a pair of 500ma single crystal silver fuses for it as that's what it really should have in it.


----------



## Matthew Willims

Ok, after 3 days use I judge the Gustard U18 roughly even with the built in USB interface in the Musician Aquarius so I’ve switched to using it for listening now.


----------



## JaMo

Matthew Willims said:


> Ok, after 3 days use I judge the Gustard U18 roughly even with the built in USB interface in the Musician Aquarius so I’ve switched to using it for listening now.


Are You using the EXT XO on it yet?


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## Matthew Willims

JaMo said:


> Are You using the EXT XO on it yet?



Yep. AfterDark Emperor Double Crown OCXO clock powered by a Farad Super3 LPS.


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## JaMo

Matthew Willims said:


> Yep. AfterDark Emperor Double Crown OCXO clock powered by a Farad Super3 LPS.


Good. Expect at least 2 weeks of power on and music playing before You get full performance from the U18. I have now done the final U18<->DI20HE testing and the DI is a "thin notch" better. But still the U18 is a very very good piece of gear for less than USD500 delivery included.


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## Matthew Willims

JaMo said:


> Good. Expect at least 2 weeks of power on and music playing before You get full performance from the U18. I have now done the final U18<->DI20HE testing and the DI is a "thin notch" better. But still the U18 is a very very good piece of gear for less than USD500 delivery included.



I’m very happy to  hear that. A bit of a bargain really.


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## volikovvv

Hello everyone, tell me the owners of the 18th, with the 16th in the chain I had problems synchronizing video and audio. Does the 18th have the same problems? Or was it fixed? We are talking, for example, about watching videos on YouTube and the Windows 10 operating system.


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## Matthew Willims (Dec 19, 2021)

I’m having no issues with YouTube or NetFlix from my Windows 11 media PC. Using the I2S output into a Musician Aquarius DAC. No lag/sync issues at all.


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## soumya.banerjee (Dec 19, 2021)

volikovvv said:


> Hello everyone, tell me the owners of the 18th, with the 16th in the chain I had problems synchronizing video and audio. Does the 18th have the same problems? Or was it fixed? We are talking, for example, about watching videos on YouTube and the Windows 10 operating system.


Gustard U16 had 128 MB SD RAM onboard of which a significant portion was used to buffer samples before sending them to CPLDs for any further processing. This introduced further latency (lag while watching videos).

U18 won't have such issues. Other than the driver buffer (ASIO, Core or ALSA) size which is typically 256 - 512 samples for 44.1 / 48 kHz sampling rates, XMOS by itself has a very tiny ring buffer which will not introduce any perceptible latency


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## Matthew Willims (Dec 20, 2021)

I've ended up ordering one of those custom pure silver I2S cables from Aliexpress also. In theory being pure silver and leaving out the additional wires normally used for video should give better results. It will be interesting to compare with the Wireworld Silver Starlight 5-2. Given the time for cables to ship from the US to Australia I imagine this custom cable will probably arrive first


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## Rantenti (Dec 23, 2021)

Hello, I'm using the Gustard X26 Pro connected to my computer via the Matrix Element H (which gave only very marginal improvement or maybe it's my illusion only, since purchasing a new computer with very quiet onboard USB ports). Currently I have no audible problems to solve but things can always be better, so I'm thinking of upgrading something for my basic setup, like swapping my Matrix Element H for a clock or USB interface.

I'm completely new to USB interfaces and clocks and have no idea how much improvement each could make to my Gustard X26 Pro. Should I buy a U18 or a C18 first if I only have the funds to buy one? And how does the Grimm cc2 clock compare to the Gustard one? Thanks.


----------



## Matthew Willims

Rantenti said:


> Hello, I'm using the Gustard X26 Pro connected to my computer via the Matrix Element H (which gave only very marginal improvement or maybe it's my illusion only, since purchasing a new computer with very quiet onboard USB ports). Currently I have no audible problems to solve but things can always be better, so I'm thinking of upgrading something for my basic setup, like swapping my Matrix Element H for a clock or USB interface.
> 
> I'm completely new to USB interfaces and clocks and have no idea how much improvement each could make to my Gustard X26 Pro. Should I buy a U18 or a C18 first if I only have the funds to buy one? And how does the Grimm cc2 clock compare to the Gustard one? Thanks.


The U18 for certain as you’ll likely see immediate benefit. You won’t be able to use the C18 unless your gear has clock inputs. I’m seeing significant improvement with a Gustard U18 and an AfterDark Emperor Double Crown OCXO clock. Course what is a major improvement to one person can be barely audible to another so your mileage can vary.


----------



## Rantenti

Matthew Willims said:


> The U18 for certain as you’ll likely see immediate benefit. You won’t be able to use the C18 unless your gear has clock inputs. I’m seeing significant improvement with a Gustard U18 and an AfterDark Emperor Double Crown OCXO clock. Course what is a major improvement to one person can be barely audible to another so your mileage can vary.


Thanks.

If the C18 clock is mainly for the DAC, my Gustard flapship X26 Pro DAC does have clock input, but it already has the K2 clock which is said to be excellent. Due to a lack of experience, I dont know whether the clock in the C18 (or the lesser C16) is a major step up from the K2 in the DAC. I have trained and sensitive ears but the C18 is really not cheap for me. I might consider the U18 if there is likely more cost-benefit to it.

If I buy the U18 USB interface, does it replace the my Matrix Element H PCIe USB card or do I keep the Matrix USB card in place? Thanks.


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## Matthew Willims (Dec 23, 2021)

It would replace it yes. Seeing as you already have the Matrix, the C18 might make more sense


----------



## motberg

Rantenti said:


> Thanks.
> 
> If the C18 clock is mainly for the DAC, my Gustard flapship X26 Pro DAC does have clock input, but it already has the K2 clock which is said to be excellent. Due to a lack of experience, I dont know whether the clock in the C18 (or the lesser C16) is a major step up from the K2 in the DAC. I have trained and sensitive ears but the C18 is really not cheap for me. I might consider the U18 if there is likely more cost-benefit to it.
> 
> If I buy the U18 USB interface, does it replace the my Matrix Element H PCIe USB card or do I keep the Matrix USB card in place? Thanks.


Have you tried a good external power supply for the Matrix Element H ? I have one of these, and with a LT3045 regulated linear power supply, offered a marked improvement over my PC USB ports, and every bit as good as my J-CAT card.


----------



## JaMo

Hi guys, 

I'm finally home for X-mas and new years eve- holiday. Today I corrected the only "Fault" with Gustard's USB interfaces (U16 and U18). They are both electronically built for 50 Ohm time pulse signal but are equipped with a 75 Ohm connectors. This is rather strange and could give an impedance mismatch. As an example the dac X26 Pro is equipped with a correct 50 Ohm chassi connector. I had to use my lens lamp to spot the very tiny R6 resistor on the board. I measured it and yes it was almost exact 50 Ohm. I removed it and replaced it with an pretty exact valued 75 Ohm resistor. When I was at it I added a black gate electrolytic capacitor to the present Nichicon. I have the Mutec Ref10 with 2 x 50 Ohm and 6 x 75 Ohm outputs so for me it makes sense to make a true 75 Ohm connection and to free up one 50 ohm channel for Audio-gd gears.

You may ask if there is any difference after the changes? Yes, I think so, it sounds damn good now, but I have also now changed coax cable to a Mutec's 60cm fat and true BNC cable.

Merry X-mas/Jan


----------



## Rantenti (Dec 23, 2021)

motberg said:


> Have you tried a good external power supply for the Matrix Element H ? I have one of these, and with a LT3045 regulated linear power supply, offered a marked improvement over my PC USB ports, and every bit as good as my J-CAT card.


Thanks.

I had the idea that the external power supply was for supplying clean power into the USB output to DAC but not for the operation of tbe PCIe card itself, so I would not need an LPS if I actually switched off the power output to USB (as in the case with the Gustard X26 pro which does not require electrical "handshake" connection via the USB cable). Do let me know if I am in error. I've heard a lot of fanatastic things about JCAT USB cards and cables, might try one some day!


----------



## sanvara

Matthew Willims said:


> Installed my U18 this afternoon. A big step backwards than the Musician Aquarius built in USB implementation initially though I know that will change over the next few weeks. About 3 weeks for it to get to its best. I popped in a Gustard 630ma fuse I had on hand and have ordered a pair of 500ma single crystal silver fuses for it as that's what it really should have in it.


Which fuses did you buy? Does the U18 require more than one fuse?


----------



## Matthew Willims (Dec 24, 2021)

sanvara said:


> Which fuses did you buy? Does the U18 require more than one fuse?


One for 220-240V regions or two for 110V regions. I used a Synergistic Research Purple fuse.

On another note, slightly over a weeks use through the Gustard U18 and the C Aquarius has reached mind blowing levels of performance. I’ve never heard better and the soundstage is phenomenal


----------



## PierPP

I can hear an improvement after some days too.. I can't agree more ... snake oil?


----------



## Matthew Willims

Things are often described as snake oil by those who either can’t explain why there’sa difference or those who are unable to hear a difference….. It doesn’t make them right, but it doesn’t make them wrong either.


----------



## doitttt

accusilicon as338 110db 10hz  
it should sound accusilicon as338 110db 10hz 
clock is very important even 10mhz clock, the difference is very small at accusilicon as338 
gustard u18, is the first serious usb interface that works. with jitter with -175db
 even dac over25 000dollars, does not have as good, usb interface 
i have tried singxer su6, su2, and su1 as well as sotm dX-USB HD with sCLK-2224 clock 
as well as gustard u18 on gustard a22, 
interface it has real depth. and 3d can hear all the details .on the neuman 310a studio monitor


----------



## JaMo

doitttt said:


> accusilicon as338 110db 10hz
> it should sound accusilicon as338 110db 10hz
> clock is very important even 10mhz clock, the difference is very small at accusilicon as338
> gustard u18, is the first serious usb interface that works. with jitter with -175db
> ...



The U18 is a brilliant piece for the money as it comes, I agree on that but in my very resolving rig, I can add that the U18 really shines with a great master clock connected. This points out that the K2 clock synthesizer clearly benefits and can work very well with a high end EXT XO w. extreme low phase noise and jitter. The guys at Gustard have succeeded with this interface. No doubt./J


----------



## Matthew Willims

JaMo said:


> The U18 is a brilliant piece for the money as it comes, I agree on that but in my very resolving rig, I can add that the U18 really shines with a great master clock connected. This points out that the K2 clock synthesizer clearly benefits and can work very well with a high end EXT XO w. extreme low phase noise and jitter. The guys at Gustard have succeeded with this interface. No doubt./J


The benefits of a great external master clock is plainly audible in my system also. It’s not a small difference either.


----------



## amele

merry christmas, i have one noob question, i have a plan to buy an ifi steamer and i am wondering if gustard u18 comes into play then. How then goes the U18 connection and the streamer
tnx


----------



## Matthew Willims

amele said:


> merry christmas, i have one noob question, i have a plan to buy an ifi steamer and i am wondering if gustard u18 comes into play then. How then goes the U18 connection and the streamer
> tnx



Unless the streamer has USB out…. It won’t work.


----------



## amele

sreamer has 2 usb ports, I mean if it makes sense to use DDC if you have a streamer?


----------



## Matthew Willims

amele said:


> sreamer has 2 usb ports, I mean if it makes sense to use DDC if you have a streamer?


Im the only way to answer that question will be to try it unfortunately


----------



## JaMo

@Matthew Willims
I went by Your USB cable advice and ordered a "Semperfi The Outsider Pure Silver USB Cable". It came in the mail today. I have already put it to work. It will be very interesting to see where this goes.. Another thing. Yesterday I added a "silver fuse" and it made a softer and fuller sound. A bit bleeding bass at first but much better already.
/Jan


----------



## Matthew Willims

JaMo said:


> @Matthew Willims
> I went by Your USB cable advice and ordered a "Semperfi The Outsider Pure Silver USB Cable". It came in the mail today. I have already put it to work. It will be very interesting to see where this goes.. Another thing. Yesterday I added a "silver fuse" and it made a softer and fuller sound. A bit bleeding bass at first but much better already.
> /Jan



Do keep me up to date with how this works out. A very nice improvement in my system though many will say neither can make a difference. I’d rather try and find out for myself though.


----------



## Ludique

Why do they call Nichicon Fine Gold caps ”Gold June”?


----------



## JaMo

T


Ludique said:


> Why do they call Nichicon Fine Gold caps ”Gold June”?


That's what happens now and then... Lost in translation... or maybe it's a flirt with the higher spec KG Gold Tune


----------



## Matthew Willims

Does anyone know the directionality of the fuse for the Gustard U18? Is it towards the top or bottom of the unit?


----------



## JaMo

No. Sorry. You can easily spot the direction by removing the fuse and holder. Connect the power cable, push power on and locate the "incoming" side of the fuse clamps. A phase indicator pen or a multimeter will work fine.


----------



## doitttt

to squeeze, the last drops out, of gustard u18
I have with a defender and ifipower x.
disconnected the power from the laptop, used the idefender power from there as well as ifipower
they will say come down to 1uv, very clean current
uses Supra Excalibur USB, very neutral usb, especially high
isolator 200 mbps, takes the rest of the jitter from the laptop
Accusilicon as338clock, enters image
presses jitter down 175db
second measurement 145ps is very good
thd + n 146 db
all in all gives crystal clear sound, as well as 3d, compared to gustard a22 usbcard there is a lot of difference, gustard u18 sound comes out
it gives my studio monitor, the neumann 310a which, reveals everything in the sound


----------



## doitttt

sorry my bad english 
google translate


----------



## zima500

Matthew Willims said:


> Installed my U18 this afternoon. A big step backwards than the Musician Aquarius built in USB implementation initially though I know that will change over the next few weeks. About 3 weeks for it to get to its best. I popped in a Gustard 630ma fuse I had on hand and have ordered a pair of 500ma single crystal silver fuses for it as that's what it really should have in it.


What were the 500ma single crystal silver fuses? I see three types from Aucharm on Aliexpress. The U18 needs two?

One of these?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...9;-1;USD+2.95@salePrice;USD;search-mainSearch


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## Matthew Willims (Dec 30, 2021)

@zima500  Only one needed but there’s space for a spare. Interestingly I’ve found the Gustard branded fuses sound far better in the U18. The ones with a gold contract at one end and a silver at the other. Seeing how sensitive the U18 seems to be to fuse quality I’ve ordered a Synergistic Research Purple fuse for it instead.

I run a Musical Paradise 3500W MP-T1 Balanced Isolation transformer for everything in my system with a custom power cable from the wall to the BIT, and the fake Accuphase 40th Anniversary power cables from that to all of the main components in my system. Non critical components are connected to a power board which is on one of the non balanced outlets. Makes a real improvement in my system.


----------



## mete (Dec 31, 2021)

I just got a U18 and there were glitches or very short stops/skips during playback. After trying to isolate the problem, I realized it is because of the DPLL setting of SMSL SU-9n (ESS9038PRO). At MIN setting, it happens quite often (at least once in a song). At 2, it happens rarely. Do you think this is a problem of my U18, or SU-9n, or this can happen ? I tried connecting U18 to a computer audio interface (Clarett+) and the problem never happens.

Another question, if I2S output is used with a DAC like SMSL M400 or Gustard X26, is the internal clock of the DAC still used or the clock in I2S signal is used directly ? So if a DAC has I2S and assuming I2S clock is good, that is even better than having an external clock input in the DAC ?


----------



## Shakarone

mete said:


> I just got a U18 and there were glitches or very short stops/skips during playback. After trying to isolate the problem, I realized it is because of the DPLL setting of SMSL SU-9n (ESS9038PRO). At MIN setting, it happens quite often (at least once in a song). At 2, it happens rarely. Do you think this is a problem of my U18, or SU-9n, or this can happen ? I tried connecting U18 to a computer audio interface (Clarett+) and the problem never happens.
> 
> Another question, if I2S output is used with a DAC like SMSL M400 or Gustard X26, is the internal clock of the DAC still used or the clock in I2S signal is used directly ? So if a DAC has I2S and assuming I2S clock is good, that is even better than having an external clock input in the DAC ?


Have you tried connecting your dac to pc with just usb? i have had the same problems with other ess dacs before without using a ddc


----------



## mclement1964

cglin222 said:


> So singxer su6 or topping u90 or gustard u18? Any takes or suggestion


Those you mentioned are also in my interest, as well as the Denafrips IRIS. I love Topping products, but the promo literature really is vague about the tech inside, and what the noise and jitter specs are from USB to IIS or anything else- for that matter. I have a gut feeling the U90 is not in the top half of his tier, but all the digital outputs it offers does get my attention.


----------



## mete

Shakarone said:


> Have you tried connecting your dac to pc with just usb? i have had the same problems with other ess dacs before without using a ddc



Yes, that is what I tried with Clarett+, and no problems. So this makes me think there is no problem with U18. But I thought DPLL setting can be decreased if signal has low jitter, and I assume U18 output has low jitter, but I experience this problem. So either there is a problem with U18, or with SU-9n, or minimum DPLL settings are extreme.

I havent seen any problem like this using SU-9n with usb connection, or with any other ESS based DACs (9028, 9018) from different vendors.


----------



## mclement1964

jimmychan said:


> U18 is a best buy in the 4xx price range. If you owned U16 or Singxer SU 1, 2 or 6, this is a very good upgrade.
> DI-20HE is another class that won’t disappoint you, if you go straight to the top league.


Im new to the idea of DDC's. Denafrips Iris. Singxer SU6, Gustard U18, and Topping U90 are on my purchase radar. The Gustard and Singxer are at the top of my list. Admittedly, Im very ignorant on this topic. I was surprised you stated that the U18 is an upgrade over the SU6. How so? Im interested in buying 1 of those 4, especially those 2. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate. I'd hate to buy a DDC and have $500+ of buyers remorse shortly afterwards.


----------



## JaMo

You will not go wrong with the Gustard U18. Here is a good review: 
The guy reviewing is using the U18 on internal XO's and he finds it enhancing as is. I can assure You that with a good EXT 10MHz XO connected it is brilliant.
/Jan


----------



## Matthew Willims (Jan 2, 2022)

JaMo said:


> You will not go wrong with the Gustard U18. Here is a good review:
> The guy reviewing is using the U18 on internal XO's and he finds it enhancing as is. I can assure You that with a good EXT 10MHz XO connected it is brilliant.
> /Jan




External clock is _way_ better with it. Running a Farad Super3 powered AfterDark Emperor Double Crown OCXO clock with mine. Choice of clock cable also plays a major part.


----------



## Highfive99

Hello. First post here. Great forum! Based on posts here I upgraded from the U16 to the U18 and could not be happier. The U18 made an immediate noticeable improvement from the U16 into my X26pro.  Started with the just X26pro and then found a used U16 which was an improvement.  But the U18 made a great DAC even better than the U16 did. Purchased both X26pro and U18 from Aoshida Hi-Fi and all I can say is that they are excellent to deal with it. They stocked X26pro in USA and had it 4 days.  U18 shipped from China FedEx International for free to USA and had it 15days after ordering. Great customer service follow up and always respond to any inquires sent to them.  Not sure at this point I can cost justify and external clock as I am so satisfied with the internal K2.

And thank you JaMo for posting the Youtube review. I agree with everything reviewer said! Love Gustard products!


----------



## JaMo (Jan 3, 2022)

Highfive99 said:


> Not sure at this point I can cost justify and external clock as I am so satisfied with the internal K2.


Hi, Here comes an advice. If You are going to add an External XO be prepared to pick a really good one. I should say with a phase noise measurement from -117dB/1Hz or better (=towards lower value: -118dB/1Hz...). They are pricy but After dark list them for decent money. In Your case I should also recommend You to pick one with three outputs so You can feed the both the U18 and the X26pro and maybe a later gear for You with the same refined time pulse.

But if You are on a stricter budget enjoy Your present rig and save up to a good external OCXO. I am seeing the very good but expensive master clock as a long term investment that will help to rise the level of my present and possible coming gears. In my case I chose the Mutec Ref10 for the square wave outputs and the many outputs (2x 50Ohm and 6x 75Ohm) knowing I will add gears in the future that can handle the 10MHz master clock signal and benefit with excellence from it.

The gears You have are good as they are but they are both are holding the potential to really blossom with a great master clock. Best for You should be to lend a good master clock from a store or a friend to test with and experience what You will get. The problem is that You will not give it back ; )

Finally. Don't get sneaky on the choice of the Master clock. It must be -117dB/1Hz or better to be meaningful. The clocks with the K2 synthesizer's inside both Your present gears are good. It maybe strange to pay a bit more for a Master clock than You did for the both the U18 and the X26pro but it is absolutely worth it. If You will go down that path the BNC cables for this use are relevant to get out the most as @Matthiew Willims here pointed out. We will help You with those choices if You want.

Good luck/Jan


----------



## doitttt

mutec clock costs the box $ 4300, to get 5-10% better sound
now let's stick to, gustard u18 internal clock
ACCUSILICON AS338 clock, provides at 10 hz 110db.
fft 48khz -185db much better. gustard x26 pro fft -170db
jitter phase is really good.
first serious dcc .on market gustard u18.


----------



## JaMo (Jan 3, 2022)

doitttt said:


> mutec clock costs the box $ 4300, to get 5-10% better sound
> now let's stick to, gustard u18 internal clock
> ACCUSILICON AS338 clock, provides at 10 hz 110db.
> fft 48khz -185db much better. gustard x26 pro fft -170db
> ...


You have a point. Mutec are pricy. AfterDark not so much: https://www.adark.co/products/after...udiophilestyle-edition?variant=32208685531254
Please find and read the table further down the page in the link and spot the values in the right column for the 1Hz. The announced value of -110dB/10 Hz will give a 1Hz-value of -100 to -105dB at best.  The C18 has -110dB/1Hz... But for the same money (USD1499) You will almost get a AfterDark Emperor Double Crown now with 10% discount. It has a -117dB/1Hz value and it is a huge difference in performance to -110dB/1Hz.

The difference with and without the master clock on the U18 are "different animals" in level of performance. Read it like this. The U18 is very good as it comes but has a potential to perform as real high end gears used with great external clocks
/Jan


----------



## mclement1964

System54 said:


> Which connection do you use with the u18
> and which was the best?


The IIS will always be the best connection since the timing and data signals aren't multiplexed together.  Whether your ears or system are resolving enough to detect the difference is another matter altogether.


----------



## Dreamer79

Hi,

I had a Gustard X26 with a U16 but last year was replaced for a AudioGD DAC R8 MK2. I'm waiting to purchase a DDC like Audio-GD – DI20HE but now for read this thread and for half price of DI20HE I'm very interessed on Gustard U18.

I'm using too AD-GH Master 1 PreAmp, recommend U18 over DI20HE? About external clock U18 have a 50ohm input impedance and accept sine wave or square wave sine form? Never had an external clock, read here about AfterDark External Clock's, their clocks have only one output right? Because I'm wondering use same external clock for U18 and my DAC, it's recommend these option?

Regards


----------



## JaMo (Jan 4, 2022)

Dreamer79 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I had a Gustard X26 with a U16 but last year was replaced for a AudioGD DAC R8 MK2. I'm waiting to purchase a DDC like Audio-GD – DI20HE but now for read this thread and for half price of DI20HE I'm very interessed on Gustard U18.
> 
> ...


Hi,
No, I can not recommend the U18 over the DI20HE. The Di20HE is a notch better and continues to get better firmwares over time. It also is a very competent re-clocker for SPDIF signals. The regeneration of the power makes it dead silent... So DI20HE plays in another, higher league.

But I recommend the U18 for what it is "every day of the week". A very good DDC, a bargain for less than USD500

The U18 accepts both sine and square wave.

About clocks. After dark has three output versions. https://www.adark.co/collections/pr...e-integrals-integrated?variant=32223822839926
/Jan


----------



## doitttt

at 48khz the jitter is down at -185db
ACCUSILICON AS338 110db at 10hz
where the ACCUSILICON AS318, is down 99db at 10hz
clock is important .what gives the sound.
crystal clear sound, all details are included, as well as 3d sound.
on the neumann 310a studio monitor, one of the best, studio monitor in the world.
best dcc i have to date.
have tried singxer su1 -su2- su6 as well as sotm dX-USB HD.
but dcc gustard u18 beats them all.
and only driven 20hours gustard u18.
gets better at 50hours,
one thing I noticed ,in a soft treble,
as my studio monitor 310a, in treble they ,can be hard in sound.
but reveal in sounds.


----------



## panhead

Hello!   Is the Gustard U18 IIS  compatible with PS Audio standard?

Thanks


----------



## mantraone

panhead said:


> Hello!   Is the Gustard U18 IIS  compatible with PS Audio standard?
> 
> Thanks


I think yes, you can check the pinout here: http://www.gustard.cn/qfy-content/uploads/2021/12/d89d3797c02c8fb14896cd566739a831.pdf


----------



## Highfive99 (Jan 4, 2022)

panhead said:


> Hello!   Is the Gustard U18 IIS  compatible with PS Audio standard?
> 
> Thanks


In all likelyhood yes. The U18 has 4 modes of I²S pin configurations. If you can determine the PS Audio standard, which I'm sure you can call their customer service which is outstanding and get that information you can compare it with these which are the modes the U18 offers.


----------



## Highfive99

I see that Gustard makes higher quality fuses. Has anyone replaced the stock fuses with the replacements and heard a significant difference? I am rather puzzled that Gustard does not simply include these in their products from the factory.


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## JaMo (Jan 4, 2022)

panhead said:


> Hello!   Is the Gustard U18 IIS  compatible with PS Audio standard?
> 
> Thanks



The U18 works perfectly in "mode 4" with PS Audio config for HDMI. I2S guide: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h5PMUBkldkpt1rCnAR4ZHYGZNeCe-vwIFyKWYMZWsX0/htmlview#



Highfive99 said:


> I see that Gustard makes higher quality fuses. Has anyone replaced the stock fuses with the replacements and heard a significant difference? I am rather puzzled that Gustard does not simply include these in their products from the factory.



They cut costs and get good profit on the small fuses. There are other good brands of these kind of fuses out there. Example: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000055907684.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.757d4876PE9PuU&algo_pvid=8a285a11-b6d3-4231-9355-3fd4959b2148&algo_exp_id=8a285a11-b6d3-4231-9355-3fd4959b2148-1&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"10000000124542418"}&pdp_pi=-1;212.3;-1;-1@salePrice;SEK;search-mainSearch


----------



## mantraone

Now a question from my side, anybody have issue with U18 reset "ramdomly"? Looks like happens only when change the sample rate ex from 96/24 to 44,1/16 the firmware reboot, nothing terrible only at the beginning of a track but sometime during a playlist repruduction is terrible. Firmware upgreade?

Now using the GU16V1_61_NFB.rom 

Thanks in advance
ps... my configuration is as roon endpoint => SOtM sMS200Ultra=>Gustard U16=>I2s =>Rockna Wavelight


----------



## Matthew Willims

@JaMo did you notice significant change with your silver I2S cable with burn in? I ask as out of the box it seems to emphasise treble with no real body to the sound. Then again my red WireWorld Starlight 7 has plenty of burn in on it so not really a fair comparison.


----------



## JaMo (Jan 5, 2022)

mantraone said:


> Now a question from my side, anybody have issue with U18 reset "ramdomly"? Looks like happens only when change the sample rate ex from 96/24 to 44,1/16 the firmware reboot, nothing terrible only at the beginning of a track but sometime during a playlist repruduction is terrible. Firmware upgreade?
> 
> Now using the GU16V1_61_NFB.rom
> 
> ...



U18. No such issues at all with the U18 (for me). The U18 continues to act as a Pro gear. Rock solid and very good sounding.

U16. The U16 You have are running on the best firmware IMO. The problem You describe with the U16 gave Gustard a bit bad reputation. I have never had any of those problems but many users more or less, have gave up on Gustard gears. I have been using piCorePlayers (Linux ALSA) all the time and have never had any of those "glitches". I guess it is related to the ESS chip receiver chip-firmware in combination with certain players softwares... but I have no proof or statistic on it, Anyway. It was "unlucky" for Gustard to spread this problem around...
But I think they have learned the lesson and the U18 will be a good recover on the market for them rebuilding their reputation and the confidence for the users to gather the guts to try Gustard gear again.
I can not help it but I like that the Gustard guys sort of "take no prisoners" and takes their own paths in the evolution of their gears. For us without any problems with the U16's, we got glimts of what they can achieve. Very good performance for bargain money.



Matthew Willims said:


> @JaMo did you notice significant change with your silver I2S cable with burn in? I ask as out of the box it seems to emphasise treble with no real body to the sound. Then again my red WireWorld Starlight 7 has plenty of burn in on it so not really a fair comparison.



I am in the middle of the burn in cycle. Yesterday morning the sound was strange with a emphased, boomy, blurry bass without much focus, the top end recessed or missing but it was better later in the day. So I have to come back on this. The Semperfi Outsider is a very good USB cable. It shows its qualities now and then already. I am just waiting for it to settle.

/Jan


----------



## Matthew Willims

JaMo said:


> U18. No such issues at all with the U18 (for me). The U18 continues to act as a Pro gear. Rock solid and very good sounding.
> 
> U16. The U16 You have are running on the best firmware IMO. The problem You describe with the U16 gave Gustard a bit bad reputation. I have never had any of those problem but many users more or less, have gave up on Gustard gears. I have been using piCorePlayers (Linux ALSA) all the time and have never had any of those "glitches". I guess it is related to the ESS chip receiver chip-firmware in combination with certain players softwares... but I have no proof or statistic on it, Anyway. It was "unlucky" for Gustard to spread this problem around...
> But I think they have learned the lesson and the U18 will be a good recover on the market for them rebuilding their reputation in the market and the confidence for the users to gather the guts to try Gustard gear again.
> ...



Yes, the Gothic is easily the best USB I’ve used. I may wait for your feedback on the custom I2S cable to see if the pain of burn in is worth the effort. The red WireWorld Starlight 7 is rather excellent


----------



## mantraone

Matthew Willims said:


> @JaMo did you notice significant change with your silver I2S cable with burn in? I ask as out of the box it seems to emphasise treble with no real body to the sound. Then again my red WireWorld Starlight 7 has plenty of burn in on it so not really a fair comparison.


I my sistem the wireworld silver 7.0 is the best one for sure but I use tubes amplificaton and soft tweeter, I can confirm that in a solid state system sound "aggressive" in the high freq.


----------



## Matthew Willims (Jan 5, 2022)

mantraone said:


> I my sistem the wireworld silver 7.0 is the best one for sure but I use tubes amplificaton and soft tweeter, I can confirm that in a solid state system sound "aggressive" in the high freq.



I don’t find it aggressive at all, though some have described the top end of the Pass Aleph-M as soft or rolled off. I don’t find it so though. Just natural


----------



## JaMo

We all know it is a balancing act. I think we all are testing cables, parts, setting to achieve a performance matching our preferences.
I think Mr Willims soften/neutralize his sound character quite a bit with the AfterDark OCXO on top ; )


----------



## Matthew Willims

JaMo said:


> We all know it is a balancing act. I think we all are testing cables, parts, setting to achieve a performance matching our preferences.
> I think Mr Willims soften/neutralize his sound character quite a bit with the AfterDark OCXO on top ; )


Yes, my system walks a fine line between too much silver or just the right amount. The right amount in my system provides added detail and insight deep into the mix. Too much and you lose the sense of depth and body with the sound becoming flat and hi-fi’ish.

I’m generally one cable or fuse away from too much silver. Balanced right on a knifes edge.


----------



## JaMo

Exactly!! Well explained!


----------



## mantraone

Matthew Willims said:


> Yes, my system walks a fine line between too much silver or just the right amount. The right amount in my system provides added detail and insight deep into the mix. Too much and you lose the sense of depth and body with the sound becoming flat and hi-fi’ish.
> 
> I’m generally one cable or fuse away from too much silver. Balanced right on a knifes edge.


Clear, and also in my system I found a similar balancing, but let me say  that the same cabling in other system can be too fatiguing and not so elegant in the high freq this is why I have a friends that made a different choice and found similar result at the end.


----------



## Matthew Willims

mantraone said:


> Clear, and also in my system I found a similar balancing, but let me say  that the same cabling in other system can be too fatiguing and not so elegant in the high freq this is why I have a friends that made a different choice and found similar result at the end.



I’m in complete agreement there. Running a different mix in my second system. That system is a completely different beast to my main running a few vintage components like a VTL Reference D/A Converter and B&W DM-16 speakers. Those speakers want a lot of current to perform well due to their overly complex 4th order crossovers. My main runs 99db efficient speakers so they’re entirely different animals.


----------



## JaMo

I had to balance back a bit. Re-swapped the two silver fuses to the originals. (in the U18 and in the LPS supplying the player). I lost too much focus in the bass, depth and space.. And together with the Semperfi Outsider maturing it was just too much silver in the mix. Now it is back to well known territory and now I can follow the Semperfi behavior.


----------



## Matthew Willims

I found the Gustard branded fuses are actually pretty fantastic in the U18. Great body and depth. I’ve no idea what material is used in them. That said I’ve a Synergistic Research Purple fuse on the way to replace that.


----------



## Rantenti

Matthew Willims said:


> I found the Gustard branded fuses are actually pretty fantastic in the U18. Great body and depth. I’ve no idea what material is used in them. That said I’ve a Synergistic Research Purple fuse on the way to replace that.


I have also tried a few fuses in the Gustard X26 pro, the Gustard fuse was best as it simply disappears and no "character" is heard but that the whole sound became more natural. It was apparent when I switched back to other fuses.

BTW, just skipping out of topic for a sec, anybody noticed that the X26 pro stock fuse was a T2.5A but Gustard recommended their T3.15A to replace it. Is it simply because the Gustard fuse lineup doesn't have a 2.5A option? Otherwise they would have put a generic T3.15A in it instead of a T2.5A.


----------



## Highfive99

Rantenti said:


> BTW, just skipping out of topic for a sec, anybody noticed that the X26 pro stock fuse was a T2.5A but Gustard recommended their T3.15A to replace it. Is it simply because the Gustard fuse lineup doesn't have a 2.5A option? Otherwise they would have put a generic T3.15A in it instead of a T2.5A.


Same situation for the U18 fuse. Comes with a 500mA fuse but Gustard high end fuse is 630mA.  Very strange the manufacturer doesn't supply replacement fuses of the same ratings for its products. I suspect they can only source stock fuses close but with lower ratings so they have a built in level of safety. But it is odd nonetheless.


----------



## Shakarone

I previously owned a gustard x26 pro but i had to return it due to constant audio drop outs/ skips when connected directly to my pc so i was pretty doubtful about purchasing another gustard product but i can confirm after receiving my u18 it doesnt share this problem thankfuly and works completely fine with no software isssues


----------



## doitttt

I have had 2 gustard x26 pro with dropout
the worst product gustard has made


----------



## JaMo

I have just received a X26 Pro and no issues so far. I am using LINUX based players (piCorePlayer 8.1.0 64 bit). These Linux players have worked flawlessly for me on Amanero Combo384 (Audio-gd), XMOS216 (U18+ X26Pro) and the ES8620 (U16). 

I don't use Windows OS for audio because of the "million reasons" for struggles with settings and drivers. It seems that too many users are "unlucky" using Windows..


----------



## Highfive99

I am running Win 10 with Qobuz/Roon and never a dropout.  Also no struggles with driver supplied by Gustard. I have Roon upsampling/converting to DSD and it sounds simply wonderful.  I could not be happier. A friend of mine also has no dropouts or driver issue with X26pro running Win 10 OS.  Guess we are 2 "lucky" ones??  lol  Or perhaps people with issues have underlying issues within their OS???


----------



## JaMo

Highfive99 said:


> I am running Win 10 with Qobuz/Roon and never a dropout.  Also no struggles with driver supplied by Gustard. I have Roon upsampling/converting to DSD and it sounds simply wonderful.  I could not be happier. A friend of mine also has no dropouts or driver issue with X26pro running Win 10 OS.  Guess we are 2 "lucky" ones??  lol  Or perhaps people with issues have underlying issues within their OS???


That is good to hear. Yes we are lucky. The U18 and X26 pro both sounds beyond their price tags, I think


----------



## Matthew Willims

@JaMo  any update on your silver I2S cable? How’s it sound with more burn in?


----------



## JaMo

Matthew Willims said:


> @JaMo  any update on your silver I2S cable? How’s it sound with more burn in?


First. The "Outsider" is a very nice USB-cable. I find it very balanced and true sounding in my rig. I have to admit I have also done other changes in my rig lately but still the USB cable is a keeper for me and "stays where it is".

The "Silver plan 4 for DSD" I2S cable is the best HDMI cable I have tested/used yet. I think You should try it out.


----------



## Matthew Willims

JaMo said:


> First. The "Outsider" is a very nice USB-cable. I find it very balanced and true sounding in my rig. I have to admit I have also done other changes in my rig lately but still the USB cable is a keeper for me and "stays where it is".
> 
> The "Silver plan 4 for DSD" I2S cable is the best HDMI cable I have tested/used yet. I think You should try it out.



Awesome, I’ll get my “Silver Plan 2” I2S cable installed again today for some burn in time. Thankyou for your feedback on this. 

Yes “The Outsider” is easily the best sounding USB cable I’ve run.


----------



## Matthew Willims (Jan 15, 2022)

JaMo said:


> First. The "Outsider" is a very nice USB-cable. I find it very balanced and true sounding in my rig. I have to admit I have also done other changes in my rig lately but still the USB cable is a keeper for me and "stays where it is".
> 
> The "Silver plan 4 for DSD" I2S cable is the best HDMI cable I have tested/used yet. I think You should try it out.



After just 2 days use I’m finding my “Silver plan 2” I2S cable is pretty much matching my previous red WireWorld Starlight 7. Seeing as you’ve said up to 200 hours burn in I’m a happy camper.


----------



## JaMo

I am happy You are pleased with it so far.


----------



## goud

Does the quality of a power cord makes any difference?


----------



## JaMo

goud said:


> Does the quality of a power cord makes any difference?


Yes it does. I have tried both a "standard" power cable and compared it to a 9 AWG, shielded one and the result is significant.
The quality of the sound improves quite a lot and the last thing to add is a good fuse to make the best of it. 
/Jan


----------



## goud

JaMo said:


> Yes it does. I have tried both a "standard" power cable and compared it to a 9 AWG, shielded one and the result is significant.
> The quality of the sound improves quite a lot and the last thing to add is a good fuse to make the best of it.
> /Jan


Thanks! Is the fuse a T500? Can it be replaced bij a Gustard Nano fuse T630ma?


----------



## JaMo

goud said:


> Thanks! Is the fuse a T500? Can it be replaced bij a Gustard Nano fuse T630ma?


Yes, it is the recommended value for the nano fuse from Gustard for the U18.


----------



## mantraone

Who is using the Gustard U18 with Rockna Wavelight via I2S connection? sound great but issue to play audio files with Sample rate 96/24 and 192/24 using Gustard I2s Pinout and PsAudio Pinout. same issue.

Any idea how to fix?


----------



## wein07

Should I connect the U18 to a USB 2.0 or 3.x port on the PC?


----------



## mantraone

wein07 said:


> Should I connect the U18 to a USB 2.0 or 3.x port on the PC?


I use the SOtM sMS200 Ultra =>Gustard U18 =>I2S=>Rockna Wavelight.  The Interface receive the correct sample rate but looks like he lost connection after half second on I2s connection.


----------



## Highfive99

wein07 said:


> Should I connect the U18 to a USB 2.0 or 3.x port on the PC?


USB 2.0 is fine. Plenty of throughput for streaming audio. What is of more importance is to use the best quality USB cable within your budget.


----------



## wein07

JaMo said:


> Yes it does. I have tried both a "standard" power cable and compared it to a 9 AWG, shielded one and the result is significant.
> The quality of the sound improves quite a lot and the last thing to add is a good fuse to make the best of it.
> /Jan


I'm sorry but what do u mean by adding a good fuse? I need to open the case and solder something in?

Thank you.


----------



## JaMo

wein07 said:


> I'm sorry but what do u mean by adding a good fuse? I need to open the case and solder something in?
> 
> Thank you.


High quality gears are usually very sensitive to the choice of fuse. The U18 responds very well to silver based fuses. It is all about to balance the sound to Your preferences.
If You are pleased with what You have. Don't change anything.

The fuse is located in the power cable input. It is a 5x20mm fuse. You can pull out the fuse holder with a small screwdriver (slits marked red)
/Jan


----------



## wein07

JaMo said:


> High quality gears are usually very sensitive to the choice of fuse. The U18 responds very well to silver based fuses. It is all about to balance the sound to Your preferences.
> If You are pleased with what You have. Don't change anything.
> 
> The fuse is located in the power cable input. It is a 5x20mm fuse. You can pull out the fuse holder with a small screwdriver (slits marked red)
> /Jan


VERY Coold stuff. Seems like a easy tweak. Any chance u can share which are the silver fuses u tried that are good?


----------



## JaMo (Jan 20, 2022)

There are relatively cheap Aucharm fuses on Ali-express You can try.

Link didn't work. Just search for Aucharm Fuses


----------



## wein07

What's the Ampere of the the fuse that should be tried for U18?


----------



## Matthew Willims

500ma or 630ma. Currently I prefer the Gustard branded fuses as I’ve a little too much silver in my system already. I’ve Hi-Fi Tuning Silver & Gold + Synergistic Research Purple fuses on the way to try in mine though


----------



## JaMo

wein07 said:


> What's the Ampere of the the fuse that should be tried for U18?


Original fuse is 500mA/250V and Gustard recommend their own silver fuse on 630mA/250V. You may choose 500mA/250V or 1A/250V. Both will do the job but 500mA/250 is the safest choice for the protection of the electronics.


----------



## zima500 (Jan 24, 2022)

Anyone with a Musician DAC notice that the vocals are more forward in Gustard mode?

Edit: nvm, had the pinout config wrong.


----------



## mantraone (Jan 21, 2022)

zima500 said:


> Anyone with a Musician DAC notice that the vocals are more forward in Gustard mode?
> 
> I am preferring the Mode 3 sound as the instruments are more audible.


It's very strange, mode 3 is the LKS pinout correct?
I tested in mode 2=PsAudio and Mode 1=Gustard but sonic result for me the same. Which model? Pegasus? Make attention if changing mode the L and R are reversed.


----------



## Matthew Willims

zima500 said:


> Anyone with a Musician DAC notice that the vocals are more forward in Gustard mode?
> 
> I am preferring the Mode 3 sound as the instruments are more audible.


Pretty sure I’m using mode 2 hey. Sounds good to me. Running an Aquarius with mine.


----------



## doitttt (Jan 23, 2022)

hiend fuse is only a waste to gustard u18
due to current regulator LT3045 when you are down to 0.8 uvrms
20 times smaller than audiophile power supply
where do you hear the difference
but in my dac, i will put highend fuses where one can hear the difference.


----------



## JaMo

doitttt said:


> hiend fuse is only a waste to gustard u18
> due to current regulator LT3045 when you are down to 0.8 uvrms
> 20 times smaller than audiophile power supply
> where do you hear the difference
> but in my dac, i will put highend fuses where one can hear the difference.


I disagree. I get a "night/day" difference when switching fuses (standard-silverbased) in the U18. -What fuses have You tested with in the U18?


----------



## Matthew Willims

JaMo said:


> I disagree. I get a "night/day" difference when switching fuses (standard-silverbased) in the U18. -What fuses have You tested with in the U18?



Changed the fuse for an SR Purple this evening and got an immediate enormous overall improvement from the 630ma Gustard fuse I previously had in there. Blown away by the improvement actually and that’s without any burn in!


----------



## Rantenti (Jan 24, 2022)

would users of Gustard's own fuses share how Gustard fuses compare with others like Aucharm, SIBA, ESKA, Hifi tuning?

My own comparison of Gustard's 3.15A fuse in the X26 Pro vs its original glass T2.5A fuse was that the Gustard fuse has a deeper soundstage, slightly better dynamics and attacks are less sharp. But it's hard to say if it is caused by the difference in their ratings.

Comparing the Gustard 3.15A with a cryoed Schurter 3.15A fuse finds that the Schurter has a more relaxed but rougher sound, and a more pronounced mid range.

Users of UK plugs need to consider two fuses in the chain, one in the plug, one in the Gustard, a real headache IMHO


----------



## Matthew Willims

The Aucharm silver fuses actually sounded thin and bright in mine and a bit 2D, likely because I’ve too much silver elsewhere in my system for it to work out. The Gustard fuse was warm and very solid sounding. A little too warm for me though is the second best of the 3 I’ve tried. The SR Purple on the other hand just has no weaknesses: full sounding and incredibly detailed and natural sounding at the same time. It’s neither warm nor bright. Gives a wide, open and liquid sound stage. I can’t think of another that comes remotely close. Basically like a window into the recording studio as clichéd as that may be….

The difference was more pronounced than in my Musician Aquarius DAC or Pass Aleph-M power amp though that may just be because it’s earlier in the signal path? Perhaps the difference wouldn’t be as great if I hadn’t already changed the fuses in those?

Makes me wonder if it’s worthwhile getting another for the fuse for the Linear Power Supply that powers my Tortuga LDR300x V3 Active pre. I’ve a silver & gold filament in mineral oil fuse there currently. Might have to get another at some point I guess.


----------



## zima500 (Jan 24, 2022)

Matthew Willims said:


> Changed the fuse for an SR Purple this evening and got an immediate enormous overall improvement from the 630ma Gustard fuse I previously had in there. Blown away by the improvement actually and that’s without any burn in!


The specs for the SR purple are 630ma 5x20mm slo-blow for the U18?
I just ordered 2 SR purple fuses for the Aquarius, due to the 110v requirement. Will return if I cannot notice anything. Maybe the Gustard fuse is too warm in my setup. Sounds congested. Or could be lack of burn in.

And what are your exact settings for the U18 and Aquarius? Have the same DAC and find these pin configurations confusing.


----------



## Matthew Willims (Jan 24, 2022)

zima500 said:


> The specs for the SR purple are 630ma 5x20mm slo-blow for the U18?
> I just ordered 2 SR purple fuses for the Aquarius, due to the 110v requirement. Will return if I cannot notice anything. Maybe the Gustard fuse is too warm in my setup. Sounds congested. Or could be lack of burn in.
> 
> And what are your exact settings for the U18 and Aquarius? Have the same DAC and find these pin configurations confusing.



I’m using a 500ma SR Purple in the U18. The same value as the original fuse it came with. I initially liked the Gustard fuse but over a month or so found there was just something I didn’t like about it. It seemed to boost bass but diminish both treble and mids. Significantly less coherent than the Purple. The main thing that was annoying me was how the Gustard fuse seemed to diminish or recess the midrange. That was unforgivable for me.

I’m running setting 2 on the U18 and just cycled through settings on the Aquarius till it worked distortion free, and left/right channels not mixed up. The setting is different for different cables. I bought the custom AVPlay HD300 “Plan 2” pure silver I2S cable. It sounded appalling initially but improved significantly with use.


----------



## zima500 (Jan 25, 2022)

JaMo said:


> Original fuse is 500mA/250V and Gustard recommend their own silver fuse on 630mA/250V. You may choose 500mA/250V or 1A/250V. Both will do the job but 500mA/250 is the safest choice for the protection of the electronics.


I just placed an order for an SR 630ma fuse. Should I cancel and reorder at 500ma?


----------



## Matthew Willims

zima500 said:


> I just placed an order for an SR 630ma fuse. Should I cancel and reorder at 500ma?


Depends on whether you want it to blow if it needs to. Best to use original values where possible. Better for a fuse to die than the gear itself.


----------



## Rantenti

I have ground loop +/- EMI noises with my computer USB feeding the Gustard X26 pro. It happens when outputting via RCA but not audible via XLR. So I mainly use XLR without problems.

I am considering adding a Gustard U18 to seek further improvement but I'm a bit hesitant since I need to take the time and money to find a well-matching I2S cable by trial and error for the U18 to DAC.

I believe the U18 will only break ground loop issues but not EMI/ RFI picked up by RCA cables/ IEM cables in the subsequent audio chain?


----------



## rettib2001

I’m just about to order an avplay hdmi i2s cable which will go between the U18 and a Musician Pegasus.

I thought I knew which ‘Plan’ to choose but now I’m not sure, given the 7 phase options the Pegasus has and the the 4 modes of the U18.

The U18 is set to mode 4 which seems to correspond to the pin layout of the Pegasus. 

For those of you using this cable with a Musician DAC which cable version did you buy? The seller suggested ‘plan 3’.

Cheers


----------



## Matthew Willims

Pretty sure they suggested plan 2 for the U18 and my Aquarius. Works well.


----------



## rettib2001

Matthew Willims said:


> Pretty sure they suggested plan 2 for the U18 and my Aquarius. Works well.


That’s what I remember you saying, which is why I’m a bit thrown by their suggestion of plan 3.

Plan 2 it is then.


----------



## T 1000 (Jan 29, 2022)

rettib2001 said:


> That’s what I remember you saying, which is why I’m a bit thrown by their suggestion of plan 3.
> 
> Plan 2 it is then.


Hello everyone
And I need to configure U18 and Pegasus, you are a scout, while I wait for the cable, which by the way I have not even chosen.
@ rettib2001-your experience will be of great help to me


----------



## T 1000

Matthew Willims said:


> Pretty sure they suggested plan 2 for the U18 and my Aquarius. Works well.


Does it work the same on Aquarius and Pegasus?


----------



## DeafSound (Jan 29, 2022)

@Matthew Willims Any issues with the SR Purple Fuse?  I've come across a few posts where users who had their SR Fuses blown and that some of the recommendations were to purchase fuse above the actual rating for the SR Fuses.

Have you had any issues with your SR Purple Fuse at all?

Just purchased the Gustard U18 with the Gustard Fuse.  I am interested in trying out the SR Purple Fuse.

Thanks!

Edited: Reread some of the posts and the fuses used were SR Orange Fuses.


----------



## T 1000 (Jan 30, 2022)

In the starting setup in U18 I will put the already tested Hifi Tuning Supreme "T" fuse, which I installed in Pegasus, I will probably upgrade to Purple later.


----------



## mantraone

rettib2001 said:


> I’m just about to order an avplay hdmi i2s cable which will go between the U18 and a Musician Pegasus.
> 
> I thought I knew which ‘Plan’ to choose but now I’m not sure, given the 7 phase options the Pegasus has and the the 4 modes of the U18.
> 
> ...


Mode 4 on U18 it's the Holo pinout? Correct?


----------



## Matthew Willims

DeafSound said:


> @Matthew Willims Any issues with the SR Purple Fuse?  I've come across a few posts where users who had their SR Fuses blown and that some of the recommendations were to purchase fuse above the actual rating for the SR Fuses.
> 
> Have you had any issues with your SR Purple Fuse at all?
> 
> ...



No issues at all no. I simply replaced the original with same value Purple. I’ve one in the Gustard U18, another in my Musician Aquarius DAC and another in in my Pass Aleph Mini power amp. I may get yet another for my Tortuga LDR300x V3 Active pre yet.

Regards

Matt


----------



## DeafSound

Matthew Willims said:


> I’m using a 500ma SR Purple in the U18. The same value as the original fuse it came with. I initially liked the Gustard fuse but over a month or so found there was just something I didn’t like about it. It seemed to boost bass but diminish both treble and mids. Significantly less coherent than the Purple. The main thing that was annoying me was how the Gustard fuse seemed to diminish or recess the midrange. That was unforgivable for me.
> 
> I’m running setting 2 on the U18 and just cycled through settings on the Aquarius till it worked distortion free, and left/right channels not mixed up. The setting is different for different cables. I bought the custom AVPlay HD300 “Plan 2” pure silver I2S cable. It sounded appalling initially but improved significantly with use.


Your observation of the Gustard Fuse on bass boost mirrors mine.  Im not sure if I notice anything with the mids and highs yet but I have only spent about 30 minutes with it.


----------



## rettib2001

T 1000 said:


> Hello everyone
> And I need to configure U18 and Pegasus, you are a scout, while I wait for the cable, which by the way I have not even chosen.
> @ rettib2001-your experience will be of great help to me


The good news is that the two work together automatically with just a standard hdmi cable.

You can select the ‘mode’ on the U18 which does effect the sound and you have to check speaker phase. 

When you look at the the ‘mode’ diagram for the pin out of the U18 and compare it to the one on the Musician site for the Pegasus, the mode that matches is mode 4… from what I can work out anyway.


----------



## T 1000 (Jan 30, 2022)

rettib2001 said:


> The good news is that the two work together automatically with just a standard hdmi cable.
> 
> You can select the ‘mode’ on the U18 which does effect the sound and you have to check speaker phase.
> 
> When you look at the the ‘mode’ diagram for the pin out of the U18 and compare it to the one on the Musician site for the Pegasus, the mode that matches is mode 4… from what I can work out anyway.


Thanks, I can now go into configuration more freely. What is still uncertain is whether my Pegas has the correct I2s, since it is from the first series and many complained. If it doesn't work, I think AES is a tolerable alternative, but also more expensive, so as to compensate for the poorer type of connection.
I am currently looking for a quality and not too expensive power cable, which in addition to fuses becomes an indispensable inventory of every quality hi-fi component


----------



## T 1000

rettib2001 said:


> The good news is that the two work together automatically with just a standard hdmi cable.
> 
> You can select the ‘mode’ on the U18 which does effect the sound and you have to check speaker phase.
> 
> When you look at the the ‘mode’ diagram for the pin out of the U18 and compare it to the one on the Musician site for the Pegasus, the mode that matches is mode 4… from what I can work out anyway.


Now I'm really confused. If, as you claim, "The good news is that the two work together automatically with just a standard hdmi cable", why do you need Plan 2?
I am completely uneducated about HDMI


----------



## Matthew Willims (Jan 30, 2022)

T 1000 said:


> Now I'm really confused. If, as you claim, "The good news is that the two work together automatically with just a standard hdmi cable", why do you need Plan 2?
> I am completely uneducated about HDMI


It’s a dedicated I2S cable which can be used for I2S only. It is not HDMI.  It should sound better than using a standard HDMI cable. Not to mention the AVPlay HDMI cable costs more due to more silver strands of wire used.


----------



## T 1000 (Jan 30, 2022)

Matthew Willims said:


> It’s a dedicated I2S cable which can be used for I2S only. It is not HDMI.  It should sound better than using a standard HDMI cable. Not to mention the AVPlay HDMI cable costs more due to more silver strands of wire used.


Thanks for the lighting
Are the Purple Fuses you mention the $ 200 ones?


----------



## Matthew Willims

$330 Australian


----------



## Musikfan

mantraone said:


> Mode 4 on U18 it's the Holo pinout? Correct?


Hi, my understanding is that mode 4 is for the holo pinout.  I compared the gustard diagram with the holo may manual.  Please let us know when you've set it up whether mode 4 works.  Tha ks!


----------



## kumar402

mete said:


> I just got a U18 and there were glitches or very short stops/skips during playback. After trying to isolate the problem, I realized it is because of the DPLL setting of SMSL SU-9n (ESS9038PRO). At MIN setting, it happens quite often (at least once in a song). At 2, it happens rarely. Do you think this is a problem of my U18, or SU-9n, or this can happen ? I tried connecting U18 to a computer audio interface (Clarett+) and the problem never happens.
> 
> Another question, if I2S output is used with a DAC like SMSL M400 or Gustard X26, is the internal clock of the DAC still used or the clock in I2S signal is used directly ? So if a DAC has I2S and assuming I2S clock is good, that is even better than having an external clock input in the DAC ?


In I2S signal, it’s the clock information from the DDC that will be used so better the DDC better the music


----------



## doitttt

if windows10 you are using
and using jriver you need to use asio
WASAPI can make holes in the music
try this


----------



## T 1000

My Pegasus (first series) on I2s only hears in the left channel. I still have the AES option


----------



## T 1000 (Feb 5, 2022)

Connected U18 - (cheap) supra AES-Pegasus. I don't know what I2S does, but Gustard sounds very satisfying in the first hour of listening, he improved the sound in all aspects.
The next upgrade is the reference AES cable and purple


----------



## kumar402 (Feb 5, 2022)

T 1000 said:


> Connected U18 - (cheap) supra AES-Pegasus. I don't know what I2S does, but Gustard sounds very satisfying in the first hour of listening, he improved the sound in all aspects.
> The next upgrade is the reference AES cable and purple


Supra makes great cable for price. I use their USB and Ethernet cable for I2S. Bang for buck cable.
Cable quality must be good for I2S as the clock information travels separately and is used As-Is and Supra doesn’t disappoint


----------



## T 1000

kumar402 said:


> Supra makes great cable for price. I use their USB and Ethernet cable for I2S. Bang for buck cable.
> Cable quality must be good for I2S as the clock information travels separately and is used As-Is and Supra doesn’t disappoint


My Supra is an AES / EBU of 69 euros. Yes, I read a lot about Supra cables, and although the sound is great, it will most likely be replaced by a HIDiamond reference AES cable.
I am very satisfied with U18, I listen to music that I play regularly, and everything is ... much better


----------



## NoNameNPC

cglin222 said:


> I took the plunge and got the u18 and c18 with it’s on sale last week and used some coupons
> Though immediately I can tell that u18 is at least equal or better than singxer su6 (after 2 days)
> I hooked up the c18 also and while I let both device turn on so far, I can tell a bit difference when using internal vs external clock
> Since I can press the ref button to switch
> ...


I think external clock affect horizontal sample accuracy.
Better clock - better wave.


----------



## mantraone (Feb 8, 2022)

NoNameNPC said:


> I think external clock affect horizontal sample accuracy.
> Better clock - better wave.


How do you mean "horizontal sample accuracy"?
I think that the U18 but help a lot focalization and deep separation of sound layers, the result is the 3D holographic soundstage in a black acoustics background. The internal clock is already very good, in my system sound little better the SOtM sMS200 Ultra + SOtM xTUSB Ultra and external Master-clock Mutec Ref10 and archive a stunning musical result.


----------



## NoNameNPC

I mean first 16 bits converted to one sample than other 16.
And form of wave depends on accuracy of clock.


----------



## T 1000 (Feb 10, 2022)

What is the direction of the fuse?


----------



## mantraone

kumar402 said:


> Supra makes great cable for price. I use their USB and Ethernet cable for I2S. Bang for buck cable.
> Cable quality must be good for I2S as the clock information travels separately and is used As-Is and Supra doesn’t disappoint


Now I got the Gustard IIs Cable and let me tell you that sound great, in my system better then the 5 times expensive Wireworld starlight silver 7.0. The Gustard is more open on top, very detailed and super silent, for me a best buy as I2s cable.


----------



## doitttt

i use 
Lindy 2.0 HDR - Gold Line - High Speed HDMI​with 24awg very big 8,5mm and 3x shield
sound good


----------



## mantraone

doitttt said:


> i use
> Lindy 2.0 HDR - Gold Line - High Speed HDMI​with 24awg very big 8,5mm and 3x shield
> sound good


Really? Did you compare with other audiophile brend cables like Audioquest or Wireworld??


----------



## doitttt

why it with, compare hdmi.
24awg wire, in all wires in hdmi cable, very strong cable 8.5mm in diameter where others run 28 to 30awg in hdmi cable
it invites to good sound
also look at dac, how good the hdmi chip is in dac, there is a lot of difference in the sound,


----------



## T 1000 (Feb 16, 2022)

My purple one arrived and was installed immediately. It's good that there is no direction on it.
Right out of the box ..., I had no idea that a fuse could affect the sound so much. Great investment
HIDiamond Reference is on its way to replace the excellent Supra AES


----------



## mantraone

doitttt said:


> why it with, compare hdmi.
> 24awg wire, in all wires in hdmi cable, very strong cable 8.5mm in diameter where others run 28 to 30awg in hdmi cable
> it invites to good sound
> also look at dac, how good the hdmi chip is in dac, there is a lot of difference in the sound,


Because "good sound" is too generic, with comparison could be possible understand the difference in terms of sound quality, ex: more trasparent, more bass articulation, high frequency in evidence... something like that.


----------



## doitttt

depending on the material you play on gustard u18, it's mp3 or flac and wav, not to forget sacd.
it takes a lot before hdmi cables get better in sound.
a good quality cable with, core 24 awg is good,
my hdmicable sounds better, with treble and more 3d
and good midrange.
think the same with, gustard hdmikabel.
if need have better, hdmicable is 20awg, core in silver
saw it from 400dollars and up in price for 1 meter.


----------



## System54

mantraone said:


> Now I got the Gustard IIs Cable and let me tell you that sound great, in my system better then the 5 times expensive Wireworld starlight silver 7.0. The Gustard is more open on top, very detailed and super silent, for me a best buy as I2s cable.


That would be good. In what way does the cable sound better and which lenghs do you use?


----------



## mantraone

System54 said:


> That would be good. In what way does the cable sound better and which lenghs do you use?


standard 1,5 mt but balanced HDMI isn't so critical about leght like RJ-45 unbalanced that "shorter" is better


----------



## JaMo

mantraone said:


> standard 1,5 mt but balanced HDMI isn't so critical about leght like RJ-45 unbalanced that "shorter" is better


HDMI cable for I2S data transfer should be as short as possible and very well shielded. The I2S transfer is an "inside chassi" design and it is very sensitive for electromagnetic interferences.


----------



## mantraone

JaMo said:


> HDMI cable for I2S data transfer should be as short as possible and very well shielded. The I2S transfer is an "inside chassi" design and it is very sensitive for electromagnetic interferences.


yes, pin to pin flat internally, but HDMI used now for the external is balanced and so less  disturbed by electromanetics fields. 
You made some test with same cable different leght and Sound Quality much better if shorter? My experience is that from 1m to 2m no difference audible.


----------



## mantraone

doitttt said:


> i use
> Lindy 2.0 HDR - Gold Line - High Speed HDMI​with 24awg very big 8,5mm and 3x shield
> sound good


Sorry I can't find this cable could you send the link to producer website?


I found this but it looks different

https://www.lindy.co.uk/cables-adap...-ultra-high-speed-hdmi-cable-gold-line-p13318


----------



## doitttt

https://www.lindy.co.uk/2m-high-speed-hdmi-cable-gold-line-p10429 
but buy  in a shop


----------



## doitttt

https://www.lindy.co.uk/1m-high-speed-hdmi-cable-gold-line-p10428


----------



## kumar402

Anyone using it with Sonnet or Metrum DAC. Is it a better but then say Metrum Ambre or Sonnet Hermes? Considering the clock it is using etc


----------



## mantraone

kumar402 said:


> Anyone using it with Sonnet or Metrum DAC. Is it a better but then say Metrum Ambre or Sonnet Hermes? Considering the clock it is using etc


I think that main issue cold be the I2s connection, Metrum and Sonnet use the RJ45, probably could be possible create a HDMI (U18 side) and RJ45 (Metrum) 

oh... wait I found an adapter here: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/4001249889215.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2ita


----------



## kumar402

mantraone said:


> I think that main issue cold be the I2s connection, Metrum and Sonnet use the RJ45, probably could be possible create a HDMI (U18 side) and RJ45 (Metrum)
> 
> oh... wait I found an adapter here: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/4001249889215.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2ita


I don’t think it has buffered I2S needed for Metrum and Sonnet DACs but would be interested if someone has got a chance to compare AES out etc on both


----------



## T 1000

HIDiamond Reference in the initial listening brings a shade more transparent sound compared to Supra, but from experience I know that burning the cable brings the most noticeable change.
Supra AES cable is in any case a cable with a warm recommendation and an excellent price.
The star of the sound upgrade is certainly the Purple Fuse, which greatly affects the sound, and is therefore the most cost-effective upgrade.
Another Purple is on the way to Pegasus


----------



## doitttt

Supra AES cable  1m i use
gives more 3 d in the sound and better treble and midrange
i also use 192khz and 24bit wav files, to play from my laptop


----------



## T 1000

doitttt said:


> Supra AES cable  1m i use
> gives more 3 d in the sound and better treble and midrange


In relation to what?


----------



## doitttt

hdmi found it listening to, neumann 310a studio monitor then used reference what is best in sound reveals everything in the sound.
came by I own
sotm dX-USB HD, which very live in the sound, a saxophone sounds
very live, on sotm dX-USB HD,
but gustard u18, sounds much better.
as there is no difference, on hdmi and aes in jitter.
also has a Mogami 3080 AES / EBU which is really good in sound


----------



## doitttt

i use AES / EBU

finds the sound is most correct with AES / EBU
my sotm dX-USB HD with sCLK-2224 clock ,sounded good
who found out gustard u18 sounds much better


----------



## T 1000

Before I got the AES cable, I was a little disappointed with the inability to use HDMI transmission. Supra made me happy with the jump in sound quality, because I finally heard U18 and had no complaints.
My current HIDiamond Reference is a bit more transparent and brighter in the first hours, just like the Cardas in the beginning. This still shows the exceptionality of the Supra cable because the HIDiamond Reference is almost 10 times more expensive.


----------



## T 1000

For me, the biggest discoveries are certainly the power line, cable and fuse and their great impact on sound


----------



## doitttt

Accusilicon 338 has 38 fs.
Accusilicon 318 has 98fs.
what does that mean for the sound.
the sound becomes more transparent or clear, on gustard u18 with Accusilicon 338
then phase jitter is at 145ps rms, ok from 400hz 2ps on gustard u18
2.6 ps RMS phase jitter, 10 Hz to 100 kHz, from Audiophilleo as the best usb addon, on the market.
what does it mean then.
maybe more jitter but can not be heard below -150db.
since gustard u18 is below -170db,
since grounding isolation at 200mbps also does something.
whether preferring hdmi or aes / ebu, is up to oneself,
my link from laptop, to gustard u18,
I turn off the power, the USB port on the laptop.
and uses idefender and xpower power supply 5volt.
so clean power to usb.
as the usb port is noisy, much with power.
so for usb cables.
  it is not needed, very expensive usb cables.
but good quality usb cables.
i am using Supra Excalibur usb, sounds good.
all this, improved my sound significantly.


----------



## DeafSound

Silly question but does anyone just leave there Gustard U18 on all the time?  With the power being in the back, its a bit of an inconvenience to turn it on and off.  I normally just turn it on in the morning and turn it off at night but was thinking about just leaving it on all the time.  Not sure if this is a good or bad idea.

Any thoughts appreciated, thanks!


----------



## JaMo

DeafSound said:


> Silly question but does anyone just leave there Gustard U18 on all the time?  With the power being in the back, its a bit of an inconvenience to turn it on and off.  I normally just turn it on in the morning and turn it off at night but was thinking about just leaving it on all the time.  Not sure if this is a good or bad idea.
> 
> Any thoughts appreciated, thanks!


I am keeping the U18 on 24/7. With the new smart dimmed display it is safe to do so. With the U16 the display burned and faded. I have replaced two.
Sound wise the most important thing is a long enough burn in period. Lets say a month. Internal XO's needs at least two weeks to stabilize and the electronics the full month.
If You choose to power it off over night, after the burn in period(!), a warm up of 20-30 minutes before serious music listening will give You the full performance.
But.. I say it again..This little box really shines with a good external XO
/Jan


----------



## T 1000 (Feb 20, 2022)

JaMo said:


> This little box really shines with a good external XO


Yes, an external clock is a logical step to heaven


----------



## mantraone

T 1000 said:


> Yes, an external clock is a logical step to heaven


In my experience the old Gustard Masterclock C16 it's just a little step in sound quality but the new one the C18 could be closer to the "king" Mutec Ref10, any direct comparison here and could be an affordable upgrade.


----------



## T 1000

mantraone said:


> In my experience the old Gustard Masterclock C16 it's just a little step in sound quality but the new one the C18 could be closer to the "king" Mutec Ref10, any direct comparison here and could be an affordable upgrade.


Thanks for the recommendation. I'm still researching and trying to determine the desired devices with the elimination system.
The price is at the level of a double crown, does anyone have any suggestions


----------



## T 1000 (Feb 20, 2022)

How to connect the external clock? (I see only the outputs) in the case of C18 the quality of the power cable makes a difference?, which cables are needed to connect the clock?
This is a completely new component for me, although I am aware of its benefits (in theory)


----------



## JaMo

T 1000 said:


> How to connect the external clock? (I see only the outputs) in the case of C18 the quality of the power cable makes a difference?, which cables are needed to connect the clock?
> This is a completely new component for me, although I am aware of its benefits (in theory)


You connect with a BNC cable of 50 Ohm


----------



## T 1000 (Feb 20, 2022)

JaMo said:


> You connect with a BNC cable of 50 Ohm


Thanks


----------



## T 1000 (Feb 20, 2022)

I will give myself enough time for education. Currently ,U18, fuse and AES cable are on burning, and I enjoy a completely different presentation of my music
My Senn. they never sounded better


----------



## mantraone

At the end I made a test with fuse on my U18, HiFi Tunning Supreme 3. I didn't espect so much improuvement. 

I fully agree with this comment found on analogueseduction.net: =>"Allows much greater clarity without being sharp in the upper frequencies as is the silver gold fuse 
occasionally. Has an amazing effect on the soundstage with much greater definition of images and added solidity to the image unlike again the the silver gold fuse which often sounds much thinner and sharper in comparison. I'm using them with high-end Rega products and have found them to be very beneficial indeed reducing noise is also another benefit, they are an incredibly clever product indeed and worth at least experimenting with on your equipment if you require greater clarity more defined and broader soundstage and excellence in all areas to be quite honest highly recommended."... 

A tested other similar but Superme 3... wow.


----------



## T 1000 (Feb 21, 2022)

mantraone said:


> At the end I made a test with fuse on my U18, HiFi Tunning Supreme 3. I didn't espect so much improuvement.
> 
> I fully agree with this comment found on analogueseduction.net: =>"Allows much greater clarity without being sharp in the upper frequencies as is the silver gold fuse
> occasionally. Has an amazing effect on the soundstage with much greater definition of images and added solidity to the image unlike again the the silver gold fuse which often sounds much thinner and sharper in comparison. I'm using them with high-end Rega products and have found them to be very beneficial indeed reducing noise is also another benefit, they are an incredibly clever product indeed and worth at least experimenting with on your equipment if you require greater clarity more defined and broader soundstage and excellence in all areas to be quite honest highly recommended."...
> ...


I have a HiFi Tuning Supreme 3 in Pegasus, and it has improved the sound, but it will be replaced by purple, because the change that purple brings, simply shocks you.
Warm extended sound stage, massive sound, that's what strikes you first
The secondary effect is that you can't stop listening to your music


----------



## T 1000 (Feb 21, 2022)

Initially, my new AES cable with its brightness nullified the massiveness that purple brought in, but as time passes, the mass returns, and the shine gradually turns into transparency, bringing more and more details and better  sound dissipation .
I am excited about the upcoming insertion of the outer clock


----------



## roiosdona

Matthew Willims said:


> Depends on whether you want it to blow if it needs to. Best to use original values where possible. Better for a fuse to die than the gear itself.


Hi! So, the recommended fuse is
Synergistic Research PURPLE Quantum 5*20mm​slow blow 500mA?


----------



## Matthew Willims

roiosdona said:


> Hi! So, the recommended fuse is
> Synergistic Research PURPLE Quantum 5*20mm​slow blow 500mA?


Yep.


----------



## Nicholas Seltzer

Matthew Willims said:


> No I hadn’t noticed. I switched from Tidal to Qobuz to get away from MQA. It’s a lossy format.


This is so ignorant. It's not lossy in any way that matters. Stop having a panic over the l-word. It isn't MP3.


----------



## Matthew Willims (Feb 25, 2022)

Nicholas Seltzer said:


> This is so ignorant. It's not lossy in any way that matters. Stop having a panic over the l-word. It isn't MP3.



Maybe not though Qobuz sounds noticeably better to me, so I’ll continue to ignorantly listen to that and pocket the difference vs the Tidal subscription.

Beyond that, recent findings are that MQA consistently adds distortion to the file. Some people may prefer it though I do not. It is not in any way lossless. FLAC from Qobuz is in fact lossless so I’ll stick with that thanks. It seems to me that you’re arguing from a position of ignorance. Either way it’s off topic. Please start another thread if you wish to discuss


----------



## FOUNDERZERO (Feb 26, 2022)

Considering the U18 as an upgrade from the Singxer SU-6. Any latency issues for gaming that I should be aware of with this DDC? Also... I use an older DAC that won't be able to take advantage of the IIS connection, so I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile since I'm only planning on using the coaxial connection.


----------



## 801evan

Matthew Willims said:


> Maybe not though Qobuz sounds noticeably better to me, so I’ll continue to ignorantly listen to that and pocket the difference vs the Tidal subscription.
> 
> Beyond that, recent findings are that MQA consistently adds distortion to the file. Some people may prefer it though I do not. It is not in any way lossless. FLAC from Qobuz is in fact lossless so I’ll stick with that thanks. It seems to me that you’re arguing from a position of ignorance. Either way it’s off topic. Please start another thread if you wish to discuss


MQA is actually lower distortion. Which makes the noiser component in the chain stand out and why it can sound worse sometimes over Hi-Res. Hi-Res sounds better on my lower quality signal chains vs MQA, but MQA is way ahead over Hi-Res on my better transport chain. 

What's more concerning and more audible is that Qobuz actually streams louder than Tidal. And as we know, the louder one will seemingly sound better.


----------



## Matthew Willims (Feb 26, 2022)

Nough said: 

Part 2:


----------



## 801evan (Feb 26, 2022)

Matthew Willims said:


> Nough said:
> 
> Part 2:








Been debunked, and biased. He's also the founder and admin of Holo audio owners in FB groups.😉 The whole platform is just measuring competitor DACs and showing how seemingly bad it is but hasn't even posted the May DAC measurements. Then ironically posts that you can't trust measurements.





https://www.facebook.com/groups/666904327315858/?ref=share

Meanwhile, Qobuz has been streaming 4dB louder than Tidal. Top statistics is Qobuz. Lower is Tidal.


----------



## Matthew Willims

Have checked things with a portable SB better which I keep handy. It was level matched. Qobuz remains the better sounding solution to my ears.


----------



## 801evan

Matthew Willims said:


> Have checked things with a portable SB better which I keep handy. It was level matched. Qobuz remains the better sounding solution to my ears.


Are you using Roon?


----------



## Matthew Willims

801evan said:


> Are you using Roon?


Yes


----------



## 801evan

Matthew Willims said:


> Yes


Two things:

1. I've always had issues with MQA quality when played back on Roon. And it may be due to reason #2.

2. Roon isn't that transparent. It's been an issue. I personally use bubbleupnp (for mqa dacs)and mconnect (for non-mqa dacs) to the Zen Stream. Others have used Euphony and others have even used the humble Squeezelite and found it having better SQ.





Even with an hdplex + lps 1.2 feeding an Xspdif2, it wasn't enough to fix the issue. My shortlist is down to this u18 vs ifi zen one sig once I'm done breaking in some components.


----------



## Matthew Willims

Might be it then. I certainly find Qobuz noticeably better. Tidal seemed to have distortion in the treble which really irritated me. I find Roon about on par with JRiver, but behind Audirvana in terms of sound quality. It’s ease of use though made it a must have for me.


----------



## 801evan (Feb 26, 2022)

Matthew Willims said:


> Might be it then. I certainly find Qobuz noticeably better. Tidal seemed to have distortion in the treble which really irritated me. I find Roon about on par with JRiver, but behind Audirvana in terms of sound quality. It’s ease of use though made it a must have for me.


Mqa versions on Roon has a weird bump on upper mids and dirty on mid bass DESPITE being bit perfect. Not sure if this has been resolved and I was using the Hugo 2 at that time. Audirvana isn't exactly a solution either from what I'm reading. For now I lucked out on 'dumb' players over Android that has less layers and has the ability to connect to Qobuz and Tidal.

The time I heard distortions on the treble on MQA  was because MQA has less ringing and sits the presentation lower, which made the lower quality components in my chain stand out more. It is difficult to diagnose. It was only after upgrading the cables and transport quality that made me realize the source of the treble distortion.


----------



## MartinWT (Feb 27, 2022)

Matthew Willims said:


> Out of interest, have you had a chance to compare the U18 with a Mutec MC3+USB…. In particular one modded to be powered by a linear power supply?



I just did this yesterday.  As a long time user of a fully modded Mutec MC-3+ USB with 5V supercap power supply, I was curious as to how the U18 would sound.  This is an almost new unit, not yet fully burned in.

At first, with the U18 receiving USB from my ultraRendu, output to AES, and using its internal clock, it did not match the Mutec.  It sounded a little flat by comparison.  Then I added my AfterDark King external clock (I use an AfterDark Emperor Triple Crown into my X26 Pro).  That really lifted the performance, much to my surprise.  It is the best jump in using an external clock I have yet heard.  In this configuration, it was already matching the Mutec.  An impressive result.

Finally, I switched it to output I2S into the X26 Pro, using a Blue Jeans FE HDMI cable.  Wow, this was a new level of performance I had never heard from my system.  Incredible presentation with the soundstage coming forward but also greater depth.  More vivid and dynamic, finer detail, but no harshness at all.  Complex music was less congested and easier to hear into.

I ordered a U18 last night.  There is no going back.


----------



## Ludique (Feb 27, 2022)

So MQA fanboys actually exist. Now I have seen everything.


----------



## Highfive99

Ludique said:


> So MQA fanboys actually exist. Now I have seen everything.


+1   I don't get the hype over an expensive lossy format.  And, yes, MQA is lossy.  Look it up. Tidal is too expensive compared other lossless format providers.


----------



## jimmychan

Hi res are better than MQA. It will be faded out just like MP3.


----------



## 801evan

Hi-Res can't even beat 44.1 on CDT in all my tests. Hi-Res will sound good on systems with a higher noise floor. Distortion likes distortion.


----------



## MartinWT

801evan said:


> Hi-Res can't even beat 44.1 on CDT in all my tests. Hi-Res will sound good on systems with a higher noise floor. Distortion likes distortion.



Then your test equipment is flawed.  Proper hi-res (from Qobuz, not Tidal) is superb in my system with a very low noise floor.  Even Red Book 44.1 sounds better than from a CD player, because of the attention to eliminating noise, and when you get up into 24/96 or 24/192 territory, there is no contest.


----------



## mantraone

MartinWT said:


> I just did this yesterday.  As a long time user of a fully modded Mutec MC-3+ USB with 5V supercap power supply, I was curious as to how the U18 would sound.  This is an almost new unit, not yet fully burned in.
> 
> At first, with the U18 receiving USB from my ultraRendu, output to AES, and using its internal clock, it did not match the Mutec.  It sounded a little flat by comparison.  Then I added my AfterDark King external clock (I use an AfterDark Emperor Triple Crown into my X26 Pro).  That really lifted the performance, much to my surprise.  It is the best jump in using an external clock I have yet heard.  In this configuration, it was already matching the Mutec.  An impressive result.
> 
> ...


I agree, the external Clock but also the I2s connection with internal clock of U18 can offer a great sound quality level, also my system is now able to have a full layer separation of the holographics soundstage with very fluid and natural presentation.

Let me suggest to try a R2R DAC, I compared my Rockna wavelight with a Gustard X26pro and if you like the acustics music is the best DAC tecnology to enjoy the music. A good option could be also the Holo Spring 3 ot Denafrips too....


----------



## 801evan

MartinWT said:


> Then your test equipment is flawed.  Proper hi-res (from Qobuz, not Tidal) is superb in my system with a very low noise floor.  Even Red Book 44.1 sounds better than from a CD player, because of the attention to eliminating noise, and when you get up into 24/96 or 24/192 territory, there is no contest.


Seeing that you have a Gustard, most chi-fi DACs doesn't do MQA well. Has nothing to do with MQA, but is more of a DAC implementation. With such DAC's, MQA will seemingly sound worse.


----------



## MartinWT

801evan said:


> Seeing that you have a Gustard, most chi-fi DACs doesn't do MQA well. Has nothing to do with MQA, but is more of a DAC implementation. With such DAC's, MQA will seemingly sound worse.



I don't want MQA. I want proper hi-res without lossy compression which Qobuz gives me.


----------



## jimmychan

MQA does all decoding in software, the DAC decoding is same as normal files.


----------



## Matthew Willims

I’ve not found anywhere showing that the investigation into MQA is debunked at all…. Plenty of info about it being a lossy format though. Irrespective, Qobuz sounds noticeably better on my system so I’ll stick with that.


----------



## 801evan

Matthew Willims said:


> I’ve not found anywhere showing that the investigation into MQA is debunked at all…. Plenty of info about it being a lossy format though. Irrespective, Qobuz sounds noticeably better on my system so I’ll stick with that.


It's all easy to Google... But goes to show the propaganda of anti-MQA being shoved down our throats.


----------



## Matthew Willims

801evan said:


> It's all easy to Google... But goes to show the propaganda of anti-MQA being shoved down our throats.


Already looked for it. Seemed to be no actual evidence to the contrary. Plenty of opinion though


----------



## kumar402

Let's get back to Gustard U18, I'm sure there must be a thread to discuss the pro and cons of MQA but this thread is for sure not.


----------



## System54




----------



## funkur

New U18 owner here.  After burning it in for 3 weeks while on vacation, this thing is legit!  My I2S DDC experiences thus far have been with the Matrix XSPDIF2 and the Douk U2 pro TCXO version (both were powered by LPS).

I've been using the U18 with my Auralic ARIES G1 streamer but will be testing it with the old Aries Femto next to see if I can free up the $ I have in the G1.


----------



## T 1000 (Feb 28, 2022)

funkur said:


> New U18 owner here.  After burning it in for 3 weeks while on vacation, this thing is legit!  My I2S DDC experiences thus far have been with the Matrix XSPDIF2 and the Douk U2 pro TCXO version (both were powered by LPS).
> 
> I've been using the U18 with my Auralic ARIES G1 streamer but will be testing it with the old Aries Femto next to see if I can free up the $ I have in the G1.


Welcome. Insert purple in U18


----------



## jimmychan

funkur said:


> New U18 owner here.  After burning it in for 3 weeks while on vacation, this thing is legit!  My I2S DDC experiences thus far have been with the Matrix XSPDIF2 and the Douk U2 pro TCXO version (both were powered by LPS).
> 
> I've been using the U18 with my Auralic ARIES G1 streamer but will be testing it with the old Aries Femto next to see if I can free up the $ I have in the G1.


You could get a Raspberry pi to replace the Auralic and free up the money.


----------



## MartinWT

jimmychan said:


> You could get a Raspberry pi to replace the Auralic and free up the money.



Don't.  I've tried two Raspberry Pis and an Asus Tinker Board.  The Asus was best but they are all too noisy on the USB output, losing detail and soundstage.

You'd be far better off with a Sonore microRendu or ultraRendu (which is what I use).


----------



## kumar402

MartinWT said:


> Don't.  I've tried two Raspberry Pis and an Asus Tinker Board.  The Asus was best but they are all too noisy on the USB output, losing detail and soundstage.
> 
> You'd be far better off with a Sonore microRendu or ultraRendu (which is what I use).


Isn’t U18 USB input galvanically isolated to be used with sub optimal USB source?


----------



## mantraone

T 1000 said:


> I have a HiFi Tuning Supreme 3 in Pegasus, and it has improved the sound, but it will be replaced by purple, because the change that purple brings, simply shocks you.
> Warm extended sound stage, massive sound, that's what strikes you first
> The secondary effect is that you can't stop listening to your music


What's about harmonics richness of sound with Synergistic Research Purple Fuse on U18? With the HFT Supreme 3 sound very precizie, wide and deep sound stage but less armonics then the standard Gustard fuse.


----------



## jimmychan

MartinWT said:


> Don't.  I've tried two Raspberry Pis and an Asus Tinker Board.  The Asus was best but they are all too noisy on the USB output, losing detail and soundstage.
> 
> You'd be far better off with a Sonore microRendu or ultraRendu (which is what I use).


You need LPS for the Rpi. The purpose of U18 is to take away the noise, USB isolation and reclock the signal.


----------



## MartinWT

kumar402 said:


> Isn’t U18 USB input galvanically isolated to be used with sub optimal USB source?



It is, and so is the Mutec. Even so, I could hear when I swapped different sources, ending up with the ultraRendu.

Every step of the digital chain should be given attention for the lowest noise possible. That's how you achieve incredible sound quality.


----------



## kumar402

MartinWT said:


> It is, and so is the Mutec. Even so, I could hear when I swapped different sources, ending up with the ultraRendu.
> 
> Every step of the digital chain should be given attention for the lowest noise possible. That's how you achieve incredible sound quality.


But the whole purpose of having a DDC is to remove those noise via galvanic isolation and then reclock it with better clock and pass it again as better digital out, isn’t it ? If we use the best possible USB input then I would rather use it directly with DAC that has decent USB implementation


----------



## MartinWT (Mar 1, 2022)

kumar402 said:


> But the whole purpose of having a DDC is to remove those noise via galvanic isolation and then reclock it with better clock and pass it again as better digital out, isn’t it ? If we use the best possible USB input then I would rather use it directly with DAC that has decent USB implementation



EVERY stage in the digital playback chain matters and every stage of noise removal makes a difference.  The objective is to get the data as noise-free as possible when it finally reaches the conversion stage in the DAC.

I have two stages of galvanic isolation in my system: an EtherREGEN and a Mutec.  Even as far upstream as the EtherREGEN, I can hear very clearly the effect of adding an external clock to it.  Why should that be?  Because even removing noise at that stage counts.  I use three clocks, into the ER, the Mutec and the DAC itself.  All make a difference.  When I tried the U18 in the same position as the Mutec (but with I2S output rather than AES), it outperformed it, which is why I have a U18 on order.

Some people have series EtherREGENs or series Mutecs, all to reduce noise further.


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 1, 2022)

mantraone said:


> What's about harmonics richness of sound with Synergistic Research Purple Fuse on U18? With the HFT Supreme 3 sound very precizie, wide and deep sound stage but less armonics then the standard Gustard fuse.


I can only compare purple  to ordinary fuse. The tone is fuller and clearer, the sound has a density as if made of lead, the sound scene is homogeneous, with details that are clearer and more prominent than with ordinary fuse, low frequencies are fuller and better defined , the highs are smooth and clear. The musical composition is richer in its performance.
I couldn't even guess that a fuse could do with sound what a good power cord does.
I don't know if you can extract what interests you from my review.
The moment I replaced the HIFI-Tuning Supreme 3 in Pegasus with purple, the brightness I had by inserting the AES cable became full again
In the meantime, everything was in the process of burning, everything went well, and in the end I bathed all the contacts with Deoxit gold.
The result is Arya who was completely inferior and neglected by my reference Senn. became so interesting and powerful, that it is a pleasure to listen to her
These are impressions on my system and may be different from yours. I'm not very good at realistic descriptions, so that's it


MartinWT said:


> Every step of the digital chain should be given attention for the lowest noise possible. That's how you achieve incredible sound quality.


I agree with you, I got big changes by inserting better power cables ,and with U 18.
I don't know if iDefender with LPS would contribute to my further improvement


----------



## MartinWT (Mar 2, 2022)

I just want to expand on the digital noise issue as it's so important.  My digital chain looks like this:

TP-Link MR-6400 router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore ultraRendu streamer > Mutec MC-3+ USB reclocker* > Gustard X26 Pro DAC

In the above stages...

Every stage has a linear power supply, getting progressively better with ultracap and then supercap PSUs
Every stage has its own grounding box
Every stage, PSU and grounding box has footers and a weight on top
ER, Mutec and Gustard have their own external clocks
TP-Link, ER and Mutec have galvanic isolation (the one few people consider: the router is a 4G router so even that is galvanically isolated)
Every stage adds a little noise but removes more
In fact, a friend of mine in the trade was so impressed with the 4G router that he bought one and uses it for his demonstrations.

* to be replaced as soon as the U18 arrives


----------



## MartinWT

My U18 is shipping now. Looking forward to getting the burn-in period done.


----------



## Hoshi

I've had my U18 playing for 24 hours and it sounds very good so far.  My DAC is the Denafrips Pontus II and I have a MicroRendu as a network bridge.  I do have an annoying issue with a very faint single tick only noticeable on quiet tracks or passages.  The ticks occur randomly since inserting the U18.  I've tried just about every possible configuration setting on both DAC and DDC.  I can play an entire track and not hear this tick but then on the next passage, I can notice the tick two to three times on the track.  This tick is so faint that on louder tracks it is not even audible.  

I've tried plugging the SU18 directly into my dedicated audio circuit as well as into a power conditioner.  My next step would be to try removing the mR but that requires me to tear apart my rack again which I really don't want to do.  Has anyone else experienced this anomaly?  Maybe more run in will eliminate the issue but I'm not confident that it will.  I do have a new HDMI cable on the way.  

Any feedback would be appreciated.


----------



## MartinWT

I'm running an ultraRendu (with latest SonicOrbiter 2.8 and updates) and I didn't notice any tick while testing out my friend's U18.  Admittedly, this was only for 5 hours or so.

What streaming protocol are you running?  I'm using DLNA with BubbleUPnP and Qobuz.

I'll soon have my own U18 to corroborate this.


----------



## Hoshi

MartinWT said:


> I'm running an ultraRendu (with latest SonicOrbiter 2.8 and updates) and I didn't notice any tick while testing out my friend's U18.  Admittedly, this was only for 5 hours or so.
> 
> What streaming protocol are you running?  I'm using DLNA with BubbleUPnP and Qobuz.
> 
> I'll soon have my own U18 to corroborate this.


I'm using HQPlayer through Roon and Qobuz as well as locally stored AIFF files.  It did just occur to me that Roon pushed an update that effected HQPlayer.  I've been trying different versions of HQPlayer with no success regarding eliminating the ticks.  You got me thinking that I should try straight Roon or the HQPlayer Client to see if either solftware may be the issue.


----------



## kumar402

Hoshi said:


> I'm using HQPlayer through Roon and Qobuz as well as locally stored AIFF files.  It did just occur to me that Roon pushed an update that effected HQPlayer.  I've been trying different versions of HQPlayer with no success regarding eliminating the ticks.  You got me thinking that I should try straight Roon or the HQPlayer Client to see if either solftware may be the issue.


Try to play without upsampling and see if it works. May be the filter that you are using is pushing CPU to limit.  I have heard pop with USB due to drop in data packets not sure about tick.


----------



## FOUNDERZERO

Ordered the U18 today and received the SR Purple fuse in advance.



T 1000 said:


> Welcome. Insert purple in U18


Did you test the fuse in both directions? Any recommendation for its orientation?


----------



## T 1000

FOUNDERZERO said:


> Ordered the U18 today and received the SR Purple fuse in advance.
> 
> 
> Did you test the fuse in both directions? Any recommendation for its orientation?


There are no direction signs on the fuse, no worries, you can't go wrong


----------



## Hoshi

Hoshi said:


> I've had my U18 playing for 24 hours and it sounds very good so far.  My DAC is the Denafrips Pontus II and I have a MicroRendu as a network bridge.  I do have an annoying issue with a very faint single tick only noticeable on quiet tracks or passages.  The ticks occur randomly since inserting the U18.  I've tried just about every possible configuration setting on both DAC and DDC.  I can play an entire track and not hear this tick but then on the next passage, I can notice the tick two to three times on the track.  This tick is so faint that on louder tracks it is not even audible.
> 
> I've tried plugging the SU18 directly into my dedicated audio circuit as well as into a power conditioner.  My next step would be to try removing the mR but that requires me to tear apart my rack again which I really don't want to do.  Has anyone else experienced this anomaly?  Maybe more run in will eliminate the issue but I'm not confident that it will.  I do have a new HDMI cable on the way.
> 
> Any feedback would be appreciate





Hoshi said:


> I've had my U18 playing for 24 hours and it sounds very good so far.  My DAC is the Denafrips Pontus II and I have a MicroRendu as a network bridge.  I do have an annoying issue with a very faint single tick only noticeable on quiet tracks or passages.  The ticks occur randomly since inserting the U18.  I've tried just about every possible configuration setting on both DAC and DDC.  I can play an entire track and not hear this tick but then on the next passage, I can notice the tick two to three times on the track.  This tick is so faint that on louder tracks it is not even audible.
> 
> I've tried plugging the SU18 directly into my dedicated audio circuit as well as into a power conditioner.  My next step would be to try removing the mR but that requires me to tear apart my rack again which I really don't want to do.  Has anyone else experienced this anomaly?  Maybe more run in will eliminate the issue but I'm not confident that it will.  I do have a new HDMI cable on the way.
> 
> Any feedback would be appreciated.


After another 15 hours the ticks are still present.  I've eliminated both Roon and HQPlayer as the culprits as I've listened to both players by themselves and the ticks still persists.  I've tried listening to both DSD and PCM as well as different sampling rates.  I've tried different HDMI cables as well.  I've got an email into Gustard and the dealer.  If anyone is using a Denafrips DAC with the SU6, or has an idea as to what may be causing my issue, please let me know.  I love the sound of this DDC but can't live with this annoyance.


----------



## kumar402

Hoshi said:


> After another 15 hours the ticks are still present.  I've eliminated both Roon and HQPlayer as the culprits as I've listened to both players by themselves and the ticks still persists.  I've tried listening to both DSD and PCM as well as different sampling rates.  I've tried different HDMI cables as well.  I've got an email into Gustard and the dealer.  If anyone is using a Denafrips DAC with the SU6, or has an idea as to what may be causing my issue, please let me know.  I love the sound of this DDC but can't live with this annoyance.


Exchange the unit with new one and check or try laptop directly with U18


----------



## Rantenti

Matthew Willims said:


> The benefits of a great external master clock is plainly audible in my system also. It’s not a small difference either.


Is the benefit of the U18/ C18 audible if I mainly listen to Tidal and some mp3?


----------



## MartinWT

Rantenti said:


> Is the benefit of the U18/ C18 audible if I mainly listen to Tidal and some mp3?


You'd be wasting your time listening to mp3 with that setup.

Between Tidal and Qobuz, go for Qobuz if you want to hear real hi-res and what it can do. Sounds superb on my system. You will definitely hear the effect of an external clock.


----------



## Musikfan

Hi, is anyone using their Gustard  U18 with a Holo Audio May DAC and can t3ll us their impressions?  Thanks!


----------



## mantraone (Mar 7, 2022)

Musikfan said:


> Hi, is anyone using their Gustard  U18 with a Holo Audio May DAC and can t3ll us their impressions?  Thanks!


Ony a test with the May of friend, and sounds great, soundstage 3D positioning of instruments, deep and wide. Gustard HDMI I2s cable and Hi Fi Tuning supreme 3 fuse.

This surprise me because the USB interfece of Holo May (Titan on KTE version) is weel know as "state of the art" of this kind of interfece, but with the Gustard U18 you have an addistional step in terms of sound quality.


----------



## 801evan

mantraone said:


> Ony a test with the May of friend, and sounds great, soundstage 3D positioning of instruments, deep and wide. Gustard HDMI I2s cable and Hi Fi Tuning supreme 3 fuse.
> 
> This surprise me because the USB interfece of Holo May (Titan on KTE version) is week know as "state of the art" of this kind of interfece, but with the Gustard U18 you have and addistional step in terms of sound quality.


This is expected. Any claims of the May being impervious to the chain before it is a misnomer and overly hyped.


----------



## Musikfan

mantraone said:


> Ony a test with the May of friend, and sounds great, soundstage 3D positioning of instruments, deep and wide. Gustard HDMI I2s cable and Hi Fi Tuning supreme 3 fuse.
> 
> This surprise me because the USB interfece of Holo May (Titan on KTE version) is weel know as "state of the art" of this kind of interfece, but with the Gustard U18 you have an addistional step in terms of sound quality.


Hi Mantraone, Thanks very much for your response.  Would you know what i2s setting on the Gustard your friend is using?  From the manual it looks like it should be setting #4, but I'd like to confirm.   Thanks again!


----------



## mantraone

Musikfan said:


> Hi Mantraone, Thanks very much for your response.  Would you know what i2s setting on the Gustard your friend is using?  From the manual it looks like it should be setting #4, but I'd like to confirm.   Thanks again!


I confirm setting of Gustard U18 is the #4 as Holo I2s Pinout and works fine also the DSD.


----------



## Musikfan

mantraone said:


> I confirm setting of Gustard U18 is the #4 as Holo I2s Pinout and works fine also the DSD.


Thanks!  I think I'll order one.  Have a great rest of the day.


----------



## Musikfan

kumar402 said:


> Exchange the unit with new one and check or try laptop directly with U18


Hi, I'm not very knowledgeable,  but I was using a Musica Pristina streamer with Holo May DAC and was getting random pops and clicks.  I had to increase the Audio Buffer setting in the Device Configuration page.  Maybe you have a similar problem?  Just trying to come up with some ideas.  I hope you resolve your issue.


----------



## kumar402

Musikfan said:


> Hi, I'm not very knowledgeable,  but I was using a Musica Pristina streamer with Holo May DAC and was getting random pops and clicks.  I had to increase the Audio Buffer setting in the Device Configuration page.  Maybe you have a similar problem?  Just trying to come up with some ideas.  I hope you resolve your issue.


Pops and clicks are mostly drop in packets via USB and hence buffer size helps


----------



## mantraone

Musikfan said:


> Hi, I'm not very knowledgeable,  but I was using a Musica Pristina streamer with Holo May DAC and was getting random pops and clicks.  I had to increase the Audio Buffer setting in the Device Configuration page.  Maybe you have a similar problem?  Just trying to come up with some ideas.  I hope you resolve your issue.


Are you speaking about A Cappella III with I2s output to Holo May? wich I2s Pinout is in use
?


----------



## Musikfan

mantraone said:


> Are you speaking about A Cappella III with I2s output to Holo May? wich I2s Pinout is in use
> ?


Yes, the A Cappella III streamer....I didn't touch the i2s pinouts on the holo may....I guess it's the PS Audio one...I did have problems at first with pops/clicks but those were resolved by the Musica Pristina owner who was great to work with.


----------



## Hoshi

Musikfan said:


> Hi, I'm not very knowledgeable,  but I was using a Musica Pristina streamer with Holo May DAC and was getting random pops and clicks.  I had to increase the Audio Buffer setting in the Device Configuration page.  Maybe you have a similar problem?  Just trying to come up with some ideas.  I hope you resolve your issue.


Thanks so much for the suggestion.  I did try various buffer settings in HQPlayer but with no success.  Can you clarify what configuration page you are referring to?


----------



## Musikfan

Hoshi said:


> Thanks so much for the suggestion.  I did try various buffer settings in HQPlayer but with no success.  Can you clarify what configuration page you are referring  you're still ha





Hoshi said:


> Thanks so much for the suggestion.  I did try various buffer settings in HQPlayer but with no success.  Can you clarify what configuration page you are referring to?


It's too bad you're still having issues...I'm using the A Cappella III streamer...I was referring to its configuration page....I thought maybe the pops and clicks you're experiencing might have to do with buffering...


----------



## kumar402

Well I have joined the club and will get it by this weekend.
Will use AES out to my Sonnet Morpheus and COAX to Schiit Bifrost2. 
Have Pi2AES and Digione Signature to compare with. 
Too bad it doesn't have buffered I2S for Sonnet DAC like Singxer SU6 or Denafrips but specs look good and hence AES should do it for me.


----------



## EMINENT

I want to try the U18 someday with my X26 Pro that I have had no problems with. Currently using Supra Excalibur USB from Windows 10 pc to X26 Pro.

What's a good iis cable and which mode would I use with it?


----------



## MartinWT

I received my U18 yesterday and it sounds every bit as good as the one I loaned, which is amazing considering it has had no burn-in yet.

I discovered something interesting when configuring it for I2S into my Gustard X26 Pro.  The DAC uses the clock coming via I2S and ignores its external clock.  I tested this by pulling the clock cable and the music kept playing.  I also switched between Int/Ext clock and heard no difference.  This is great news as I could then move my best clock (AfterDark Emperor Triple Crown) to the U18 and my next best clock (AfterDark King) to the EtherREGEN.  All in all, everything sounds wonderful and I need to give the U18 and my Blue Jeans FE cable some time to fully burn in.


----------



## EMINENT (Mar 10, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> I received my U18 yesterday and it sounds every bit as good as the one I loaned, which is amazing considering it has had no burn-in yet.
> 
> I discovered something interesting when configuring it for I2S into my Gustard X26 Pro.  The DAC uses the clock coming via I2S and ignores its external clock.  I tested this by pulling the clock cable and the music kept playing.  I also switched between Int/Ext clock and heard no difference.  This is great news as I could then move my best clock (AfterDark Emperor Triple Crown) to the U18 and my next best clock (AfterDark King) to the EtherREGEN.  All in all, everything sounds wonderful and I need to give the U18 and my Blue Jeans FE cable some time to fully burn in.


Is this the same cable?

https://www.amazon.com/Bonded-Pair-High-Speed-Cable-Ethernet-Black/dp/B0026NX3Z8

What kind of difference could I expect with standard clocks adding the U18 to my X26 Pro?


----------



## MartinWT

Yes, that's the cable.  I ordered it straight from:
http://www.bluejeanscable.co.uk/store/hdmi-cables/index.htm

The external clock makes a difference, but not as big as using I2S.  All the usual clock things (lower noise floor, finer detail, precise timing, note decay etc.)


----------



## Glokta

MartinWT said:


> Yes, that's the cable.  I ordered it straight from:
> http://www.bluejeanscable.co.uk/store/hdmi-cables/index.htm



Considering the price is fairly low are these on par with the usual suspects, Kimber, Audioquest, etc?


----------



## kumar402

Got delivery a day in advance. Hopefully will get time to have a listen. How long do they take to stabalize? Also do we need to keep it ON all the time like those OCXO clocks?


----------



## MartinWT

Glokta said:


> Considering the price is fairly low are these on par with the usual suspects, Kimber, Audioquest, etc?



With digital cables that are difficult to meet full specifications, you cannot apply standard price scales.  The Blue Jeans FE uses Belden YR52550 which is a very high performance cable.  To my ears, it sounds excellent.  However, I will receive an AVplay I2S cable, which is popular here, shortly and will report back on my comparative findings.


----------



## kumar402

I plugged it in and it was working fine but I noticed my wife used a hand blender in the nearby socket in the same room and it triggered a restart. Is it issue with my Unit or gustard in general. Not a big issue for me as this won't be common occurence. I remember reading something similar in U16 thread where a better capacitor resolved the issue.


----------



## MartinWT

A large power spike can do that.


----------



## Glokta

kumar402 said:


> I plugged it in and it was working fine but I noticed my wife used a hand blender in the nearby socket in the same room and it triggered a restart. Is it issue with my Unit or gustard in general. Not a big issue for me as this won't be common occurence. I remember reading something similar in U16 thread where a better capacitor resolved the issue.



So you're saying that blenders don't mix well with ddc's?


----------



## FredA

Glokta said:


> So you're saying that blenders don't mix well with ddc's?


I would say they don't blend well.


----------



## mantraone (Mar 11, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> With digital cables that are difficult to meet full specifications, you cannot apply standard price scales.  The Blue Jeans FE uses Belden YR52550 which is a very high performance cable.  To my ears, it sounds excellent.  However, I will receive an AVplay I2S cable, which is popular here, shortly and will report back on my comparative findings.


try the I2S Gustard Cable, very good price and great performance, extended, clean and silent. better the WireWorld Silver 7.0 in my system.


----------



## Glokta

I actually have it in my basket on shenzenaudio together with some of their fuses to test them out but unfortunately they only have the longest one in stock for quite some time...


----------



## Highfive99

Glokta said:


> I actually have it in my basket on shenzenaudio together with some of their fuses to test them out but unfortunately they only have the longest one in stock for quite some time...


Honestly, I would forget the Gustard fuses and go with SR Purple fuses if you want to squeeze out the best sound you can get. I had Gustard fuses in both my U18 and X26Pro and recently switched to the Purple fuses and they made a difference. Gustard fuses sound better than the stock fuses but the Purples are in another league over the Gustards but they are pricey when compared to the cost of the Gustard fuses.


----------



## MartinWT

I use SR Purples in my X26 Pro, both rear panel and plug fuse.  It is an extraordinary fuse.

However, the one Gustard fuse I tried so far, in the PSU powering my EtherREGEN, is also working very well.  I don't want to overcook the Purple pudding, so I have another Gustard fuse on order for the U18, which currently has a stock fuse.


----------



## kumar402 (Mar 12, 2022)

Wow...it's 2nd day for me and this thing has impressed me a lot. It's not like I was using some bad source but have used good source like Pi2AES, Digione signature with LPS and Metrum Ambre, although its been long time since I used Ambre, but I can still hear improvement primarily in tight bass and wide headstage. I'm using my macbook pro 2013 as source. I find the usb out of 2013 macbook pro very good on its own.
Unfortunately I can't use I2S as Sonnet DAC only takes buffered I2S but even AES INPUT is great in Sonnet and I'm using that


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 12, 2022)

kumar402 said:


> Unfortunately I can't use I2S as Sonnet DAC only takes buffered I2S but even AES INPUT is great in Sonnet and I'm using that


Supra DAC- is  excellent AES cable


----------



## kumar402

T 1000 said:


> Supra DAC- is  excellent AES cable


I amlong time user of Supra USB cable so will look into their AES offering as well.


----------



## T 1000

kumar402 said:


> I amlong time user of Supra USB cable so will look into their AES offering as well.


The cleanliness of the transmission is impressive for the money


----------



## Highfive99

MartinWT said:


> I use SR Purples in my X26 Pro, both rear panel and plug fuse.  It is an extraordinary fuse.
> 
> However, the one Gustard fuse I tried so far, in the PSU powering my EtherREGEN, is also working very well.  I don't want to overcook the Purple pudding, so I have another Gustard fuse on order for the U18, which currently has a stock fuse.


By plug fuse, do mean the one under the IEC connector? If so, where is the second rear panel fuse you speak of? Is it internal? I wasn't aware the X26Pro had 2 fuses. 

 Also how can you overcook the Purple pudding? I also have one in my amp and each time added a Purple to my system(installed them 1 at a time) it only sounded better.  IMHO unless you're cash constrained,  I now consider a Gustard fuse in a U18 not money well spent after installing the Purple in it. Only reason I bought the Gustard fuses was that they were my first hi-fi fuse purchase and I was skeptical of the difference a fuse could make. After hearing the improvement they made I decided to go with the Purples after much reading on the subject. So glad I did as I am now a believer that these SR Purples help bring out the best in whatever they are installed in.


----------



## MartinWT

Highfive99 said:


> By plug fuse, do mean the one under the IEC connector? If so, where is the second rear panel fuse you speak of? Is it internal? I wasn't aware the X26Pro had 2 fuses.


I'm in the UK, there is a fuse in every power cable plug.  The X26 Pro has just the rear panel fuse.

I have carefully balanced the fuses in my system: SR Reds for most components, SR Oranges for my two regenerators, SR Purple for the DAC.  Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme for internal power supply DC fuses as they sound good for this purpose.  You can get it wrong, for instance I had two SR Blues at one time and I really don't like the edge softening they do to the music.  Pipe and slippers fuses.


----------



## milkdudd (Mar 12, 2022)

Greetings. Can anyone tell me if this would be a worthy addition between my Android OTG device and my Gustard A22 dac? I understand how it kills noise and jitter when using a computer as a source. I've had a hard time getting an answer if using an Android source has the same noise and jitter problems. My device is a never activated Moto G stylus. I've tried to eliminate apps running in the background. Also I keep it in airplane mode. I use it with Wi-Fi much like an iPod would be used. For the record I'm really pleased with the sound I'm already getting but if the U18 would take it up another level I will cough up the $500 or so. Thanks in advance


----------



## kumar402

milkdudd said:


> Greetings. Can anyone tell me if this would be a worthy addition between my Android OTG device and my Gustard A22 dac? I understand how it kills noise and jitter when using a computer as a source. I've had a hard time getting an answer if using an Android source has the same noise and jitter problems. My device is a never activated Moto G stylus. I've tried to eliminate apps running in the background. Also I keep it in airplane mode. I use it with Wi-Fi much like an iPod would be used. For the record I'm really pleased with the sound I'm already getting but if the U18 would take it up another level I will cough up the $500 or so. Thanks in advance


Yes, it’s DDC so it will reclock the USB in and send output via SPDIF/I2S. Any kind of USB streamer will benefit from it as not only it removes noise but also reclocks the signal with better clock that it has and in future you can add external clock to it as well if you wish.


----------



## MartinWT

milkdudd said:


> Can anyone tell me if this would be a worthy addition between my Android OTG device and my Gustard A22 dac


Yes, the reclocking of the signal against a far better clock reference than inside the Android device will remove jitter (time domain) and phase (frequency domain) noise and should give you better sound quality from the DAC.


----------



## milkdudd

Thanks guys you just made me $500 poorer. Actually that will happen when my credit card starts a new billing cycle in a few days 🙄


----------



## doitttt

i understand it with fuse, should give better sound, on gustard u18
but it is not ,something understand, with power.
there pure power, for dac and gustard u18 as well as amplifier
I use IsoTek EVO3 Polaris
Central clean power network removes Common and Differential Mode mains noise
6 independent outlets stop Differential Mode cross contamination
EVO3 INITIUM
6pcs powercable
it really gives much better sound
da power in the net are very dirty


----------



## Musikfan

Hi, I'm in the USA and I'd like to know who you recommend to purchase the Gustard U18 from and why.  I'm particularly interested in hearing opinions about shipping and customer service experience.  Thanks,


----------



## T 1000

doitttt said:


> i understand it with fuse, should give better sound, on gustard u18
> but it is not ,something understand, with power.
> there pure power, for dac and gustard u18 as well as amplifier
> I use IsoTek EVO3 Polaris
> ...


Its (fuse) effect on sound is so significant that I don't understand why it isn't. Can you return it to the seller and have another fuse sent to you? The only thing I can think of is a faulty fuse


----------



## MartinWT

doitttt said:


> I use IsoTek EVO3 Polaris
> Central clean power network removes Common and Differential Mode mains noise



I use two regenerators, a PS Audio P3 for all the digital electronics and a P10 for the power amp.
Clean power makes a big difference, however good power cables and fuses still make additional differences.


----------



## T 1000

@ MartinWT- Do you recommend using the Black Ravioli Black Hole Signal Module, and is it currently in your system


----------



## MartinWT

T 1000 said:


> @ MartinWT- Do you recommend using the Black Ravioli Black Hole Signal Module, and is it currently in your system


No, I have taken them all out. The Quartz Acoustic Premium (from Singapore) are far better, also the Aucharm XL.

However, the Black Ravioli footers are the absolute best.


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 13, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> However, the Black Ravioli footers are the absolute best.


I read a lot of praise about them. Do you use them only for regenerators  or also for other components?
Somehow I've always doubted that footers under components can affect sound, but as I was until recently mistaken that good sound only needed a good source, DAC, amplifier and speakers or headphones, and then I started to discover the role of cables, and the importance of purification signals, so I hope to have enlightenment with footers as well.


----------



## MartinWT

T 1000 said:


> Do you use them only for regenerators  or also for other components?



I use Black Ravioli Big Pads under every major component and Black Ravioli Pads under every small component, including the grounding boxes.

The main system has two levels of isolation as my system rack is on RDC Cones and the sensitive digital components are on three levels: two Electric beach S1NX shelves, each also on RDC Cones.


----------



## T 1000

MartinWT said:


> I use Black Ravioli Big Pads under every major component and Black Ravioli Pads under every small component, including the grounding boxes.
> 
> The main system has two levels of isolation as my system rack is on RDC Cones and the sensitive digital components are on three levels: two Electric beach S1NX shelves, each also on RDC Cones.


Thanks for sharing
Enjoy the day


----------



## Highfive99

Musikfan said:


> Hi, I'm in the USA and I'd like to know who you recommend to purchase the Gustard U18 from and why.  I'm particularly interested in hearing opinions about shipping and customer service experience.  Thanks,


I got my U18 and X26pro from Aoshida-HiFi-US through Amazon. I ordered the X26Pro on a Sunday evening and got it 4 days later.  The U18 took 13 days FedEx shipping from China at no cost. And Aoshida has great customer service with follow up emails to make sure their customers are happy. I replied there was no user manual for X26pro and they emailed me the PDF for it the same day.  Between quick shipping, excellent customer service and purchase follow up, I can't recommend them enough


----------



## doitttt

clean power are 
are keywords here
just to make sine curves more perfect
by using power boxes
I use IsoTek EVO3 Polaris it is cheap 450dollars
the network to power are very dirty
IsoTek EVO3 Polaris is widely used for high-end equipment that costs 10000dollars and more
neon tubes, LED lights, refrigerator, washing machine, and small powersupply
then there is emi radiation
all that and more sine curves are no longer sine curves
then filtered off
it has nothing to do with fuses


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 13, 2022)

doitttt said:


> clean power are
> are keywords here
> just to make sine curves more perfect
> by using power boxes
> ...


In my power line to the amplifier I have IsoTek EVO3 gemini, which is the same as the Polaris with only two sockets, and the Initium cable to the wall socket. From Gemini to Bryston is Audioquest. In addition to the mentioned line, the fuse had a much bigger impact on sound than the whole power line to the amplifier. I was disappointed with my investment in that power line, and tried Telurium Q Black instead of Initium, and he made a change  .
I'm sure you got a faulty fuse


----------



## milkdudd

Highfive99 said:


> I got my U18 and X26pro from Aoshida-HiFi-US through Amazon. I ordered the X26Pro on a Sunday evening and got it 4 days later.  The U18 took 13 days FedEx shipping from China at no cost. And Aoshida has great customer service with follow up emails to make sure their customers are happy. I replied there was no user manual for X26pro and they emailed me the PDF for it the same day.  Between quick shipping, excellent customer service and purchase follow up, I can't recommend them enough


You have convinced me and I will place my order with them on Tuesday for a black one. I know there's a lot of posts about what would be a good cable to use. However a lot of them don't mention price. Can anyone suggest one under $100? I could go more but only if I'll really hear a noticeable difference. Is length crucial like it seems to be on coax digital and USB? Thanks again, I'd be lost without this forum. Many would argue I'm lost even with it 🥴


----------



## MartinWT

Do you mean the I2S cable?  Yes, I can recommend the Blue Jeans HDMI FE cable, as short as you can make it.  It will cost a lot less than $100.  There are others and I have an AVplay coming from AliExpress which cost only about $60.


----------



## kumar402

Does U18 have MQA decoder as well?


----------



## doitttt

no bad fuse 
sound better with IsoTek EVO3 Polaris
are keywords here
just to make sine wave more perfect
the network to power are very dirty
neon tubes, LED lights, refrigerator, washing machine, and small powersupply
forgot to say industry if it is proximity to where one lives
very dirty power
sine wave are no longer sine wave
then filtered off
so one also dcblocker on
can correct sinus wave
very dirty power are up 90% noise  in power
where I live in denmark
there is power 19% in noise
it has been measured for


----------



## Rantenti (Mar 14, 2022)

Matthew Willims said:


> Never tried the WW USB though someone who’s opinion I trust (another cable maker) tried the WW, Curious and Gothic and decided they wouldn’t bother with their own USB line after trying the Gothic. Says a lot.


I'm loving my OCC silver Neotech NEUB-1020, but definitely interested in trying the Gothic. Not a lot of reviews but those who've tried seemed to like their cables very much.


----------



## Rantenti

milkdudd said:


> You have convinced me and I will place my order with them on Tuesday for a black one. I know there's a lot of posts about what would be a good cable to use. However a lot of them don't mention price. Can anyone suggest one under $100? I could go more but only if I'll really hear a noticeable difference. Is length crucial like it seems to be on coax digital and USB? Thanks again, I'd be lost without this forum. Many would argue I'm lost even with it 🥴


Try Gotham 86215 with Furutech Fi-11M Cu (unplated) and Fi-C15 NCF. Even at a few times its price I couldn't find a cable with such a neutral balance, extreme transparency and accuracy of articulation. It is insanely shielded (six layers of shielding), and has a blacker background than any cable I've heard (not that I've heard a lot!). I had been worried such a crazily shielded cable would sound constricted, but surprisingly it has a very wide open soundstage and is highly dynamic. The unplated copper male plug and the Rh plated NCF IEC combination balances well too, resulting in a very detailed yet smooth and pleasant, slightly warm sound.


----------



## soumya.banerjee

kumar402 said:


> Does U18 have MQA decoder as well?



Yes it does. An undocumented hidden Easter egg.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gustard-u18.960682/page-6#post-16714046


----------



## Nicholas Seltzer

Matthew Willims said:


> Maybe not though Qobuz sounds noticeably better to me, so I’ll continue to ignorantly listen to that and pocket the difference vs the Tidal subscription.
> 
> Beyond that, recent findings are that MQA consistently adds distortion to the file. Some people may prefer it though I do not. It is not in any way lossless. FLAC from Qobuz is in fact lossless so I’ll stick with that thanks. It seems to me that you’re arguing from a position of ignorance. Either way it’s off topic. Please start another thread if you wish to discuss


I get it. You watched GoldenOne's video. Except his tests were invalid. None of his recordings were converted properly. He even admits that the encoder warnings, but glosses over that fact. I'm afraid it's you who are "arguing from ignorance". The data in an MQA file are changed from a digital master because a correction is applied that compensates for temporal errors introduced by the A/D process. You can't just compare the data from an MQA file and a conventional high res file say, use the high res file as a base of reference, then conclude that the MQA is distorted because it's different. On the contrary, the conventional file is distorted relative to the original analog. That is fidelity which is *lost* with conventional PCM, but preserved with MQA. Conventional FLAC is only "lossless" in the sense that what's put into the FLAC encoder is what comes out of the FLAC encoder. Note that MQA is also encoded in FLAC, and is lossless in the same way. The only sense that MQA isn't lossless is that some of the least significant bits, well below the noise floor are used to store high frequency data, shaped as random noise. In other words, some _random _noise is replaced with _pseudo-random _noise. Yet the signal itself is preserved as near to perfect as is currently possible with digital audio. You can analyze spectral graphs all day long if you want. Nothing of value is lost.

Most likely what you're hearing is Placebo Effect. Like so many, you got hung up on the word "lossy" and conclude the MQA is like MP3. But it isn't. It's a totally different beast. While not being truly reversible as a data process--which you might call "lossy" in a sense--it loses less of what matters than conventional PCM. In terms of timing accuracy, it performs on par with or even exceeding DSD.

Don't think it's Placebo? Perform a set of blind trials. MQA DAC or not. Fire up both Qobuz and Tidal in Roon. Find a few recent high res releases that were released simultaneously in conventional high res and MQA. Add them to a playlist. Use your iPad, phone, or whatever, to scramble them. Use a cloth or something to cover up anything indicating which is which. Now listen blind. Choose which one you like best. Do this 6 or more times. See what happens.

And don't give me that "off topic" cop out. I was responding to your comment about MQA.


----------



## T 1000

doitttt said:


> no bad fuse
> sound better with IsoTek EVO3 Polaris
> are keywords here
> just to make sine wave more perfect
> ...


Your environment is quite undesirable. 
For good sound, you need significant investments in the power line, including good power cables for additional filtration
With the components we have and with cheap cables and which we think are the best, then upgrades with better cables and various accessories mentioned here, the sound improves to unimaginable qualities.
This hobby has its disappointments, because we buy things blindly, and on the recommendation of others, and then it simply does not have the expected effect in our system. On the other hand, many times we get more than we expected.
If you listen to headphones, have you thought about DAP


----------



## milkdudd

I purchased the U18 from the Aoshida HiFi-US Amazon website late last night. It was the last black one they had for delivery this week. Also ordered the blue jeans one foot HDMI cable. Both scheduled for Wednesday delivery. Can't wait to hook these up to my A22 dac, which I am already thrilled with. Thanks to all those here that helped me decide


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 14, 2022)

And yet we are not all robots with the same devices to hear certain sounds in the same way. Some like one while the and others don't like it. Our visualization plays an important role in experiencing musical performance, as well as ear canal hygiene.
I just want to say that we cannot be exclusive in claiming that something is what seems to us ,to be the absolute truth.


----------



## milkdudd

T 1000 said:


> And yet we are not all robots with the same devices to hear certain sounds in the same way. Some like one while the other does not like the other. Our visualization plays an important role in experiencing musical performance, as well as ear canal hygiene.
> I just want to say that we cannot be exclusive in claiming that something is what seems to us to be the absolute truth.


I agree with you. I would also add that while reviews and opinions on equipment are extremely helpful, unless the reviewer lists all of the other devices being used, the results can't really be relied upon. For instance when someone reviews a dac and doesn't mention if they used it in dac only mode or with the built-in preamp if it has one. Topping D90 was an example for me where that made a night and day difference. All this is before we even consider personal preferences in sound


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 14, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> I agree with you. I would also add that while reviews and opinions on equipment are extremely helpful, unless the reviewer lists all of the other devices being used, the results can't really be relied upon. For instance when someone reviews a dac and doesn't mention if they used it in dac only mode or with the built-in preamp if it has one. Topping D90 was an example for me where that made a night and day difference. All this is before we even consider personal preferences in sound


Just so


----------



## T 1000

The Pink Panther Theme (McFerrin version)
for a good mood


----------



## MartinWT

Nicholas Seltzer said:


> While not being truly reversible as a data process--which you might call "lossy" in a sense--it loses less of what matters than conventional PCM.



You can't have it both ways. It isn't reversible so it IS lossy (not just "in a sense"), which a few of us have been saying. So how, then, can it lose less of what matters than hi-res PCM?

I'm sure it was created to conserve bandwidth and it probably achieves that very well, but why does it still exist? When I can have absolutely gorgeous sounding Qobuz at up to 24/192 why should I want Tidal with MQA that sounds worse?

I think its you who has fallen for the marketing.


----------



## MartinWT

milkdudd said:


> I purchased the U18 from the Aoshida HiFi-US Amazon website late last night. It was the last black one they had for delivery this week. Also ordered the blue jeans one foot HDMI cable. Both scheduled for Wednesday delivery. Can't wait to hook these up to my A22 dac, which I am already thrilled with. Thanks to all those here that helped me decide



I had a friends A22 in my system and it is a terrific DAC. I ordered the X26 Pro right afterwards - because I loved the A22 but also love what the ES9038 chipset does.

Oh, and mine and the U18 are silver.  The Blue Jeans cable is black, though!


----------



## milkdudd

MartinWT said:


> I had a friends A22 in my system and it is a terrific DAC. I ordered the X26 Pro right afterwards - because I loved the A22 but also love what the ES9038 chipset does.
> 
> Oh, and mine and the U18 are silver.  The Blue Jeans cable is black, though!


I have considered the X26 Pro but I need to know if it's enough of an upgrade. Do you think it is? Do you use it as a dac only or a as a dac/preamp? My A22 is the only dac I've used where the preamp is noticeably better than using my Violetric V281 as a preamp. I only use the balanced XLR connections by the way


----------



## Highfive99

milkdudd said:


> I purchased the U18 from the Aoshida HiFi-US Amazon website late last night. It was the last black one they had for delivery this week. Also ordered the blue jeans one foot HDMI cable. Both scheduled for Wednesday delivery. Can't wait to hook these up to my A22 dac, which I am already thrilled with. Thanks to all those here that helped me decide


To get the best out of the U18, give it a good burn-in and without a doubt get a better fuse for it.  The Gustard branded fuse at about $25 makes for a nice difference over the stock fuse and isn't too pricey. Another good one is the ACME Cryo CFC coated fuses at $20. Probably the best bang for the buck. Or if you want about the best get an SR Purple but not cheap at $200.


----------



## Highfive99

milkdudd said:


> I have considered the X26 Pro but I need to know if it's enough of an upgrade. Do you think it is? Do you use it as a dac only or a as a dac/preamp? My A22 is the only dac I've used where the preamp is noticeably better than using my Violetric V281 as a preamp. I only use the balanced XLR connections by the way


Use a good power cable with an X26Pro, put an SR Purple fuse in and feed it from a good DDC like a U18 and you'll be quite impressed.


----------



## milkdudd

Highfive99 said:


> Use a good power cable with an X26Pro, put an SR Purple fuse in and feed it from a good DDC like a U18 and you'll be quite impressed.


I'm sure what you're saying is 100% correct. The thing is I already have the A22. In my case I would need to know if it's worth all the hassle of selling that and adding quite a bit of money to get the X26 Pro. Does the U18 give a bigger improvement to the A22 than it does to the X26 Pro? Also it sounds like both the DDC and the Dac will benefit from the fuse upgrade. I'm guessing one fuse needed for each? Can someone help me select the right ones. Different sizes, amperage ratings, slow blow and fast blow, different materials they're are built from, etc. confuse me plenty


----------



## T 1000

milkdudd said:


> I'm sure what you're saying is 100% correct. The thing is I already have the A22. In my case I would need to know if it's worth all the hassle of selling that and adding quite a bit of money to get the X26 Pro. Does the U18 give a bigger improvement to the A22 than it does to the X26 Pro? Also it sounds like both the DDC and the Dac will benefit from the fuse upgrade. I'm guessing one fuse needed for each? Can someone help me select the right ones. Different sizes, amperage ratings, slow blow and fast blow, different materials they're are built from, etc. confuse me plenty


For U18 you need 5 × 20, 500 mA (although I inserted 680 mA), slow blow


----------



## milkdudd

T 1000 said:


> For U18 you need 5 × 20, 500 mA (although I inserted 680 mA), slow blow


Okay thank you that covers me for the U18. Do you happen to know what the A22 would use. It seems to make sense I would upgrade both


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## T 1000 (Mar 15, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> Okay thank you that covers me for the U18. Do you happen to know what the A22 would use. It seems to make sense I would upgrade both


I benefited from inserting fuses in both ,the U18 and the DAC(in DAC I replaced HiFi Tuning Supreme with Purple).
For the A22 you have to see in the specifications


----------



## MartinWT

milkdudd said:


> In my case I would need to know if it's worth all the hassle of selling that and adding quite a bit of money to get the X26 Pro.



As I said before, I've had a friend's A22 in my system and then I bought the X26 Pro.  The latter is a better DAC but you're asking about the size of the differences, which I can understand.  They both do musical communication very well, the A22 has a fluid midrange and its delivery is very easy on the ear.  Where the differences are clear to me are in the frequency extremes where the X26 Pro has a more structural and punchy bass end with extreme extension (which my big Ushers love), and a filigree treble with lots of micro-detail that is a specialism of the ES9038 Pro chipset.  Finally, the dynamics of my X26 Pro are on another level, although the U18 has really helped in that regard, too.  It's your choice: for me, I'm glad I ordered the X26 Pro.

One final point: the A22 is in high demand (and is now unobtainable) because of the shortage of the AKM chipset, so you might be able to secure a good sale price on it.


----------



## milkdudd

MartinWT said:


> As I said before, I've had a friend's A22 in my system and then I bought the X26 Pro.  The latter is a better DAC but you're asking about the size of the differences, which I can understand.  They both do musical communication very well, the A22 has a fluid midrange and its delivery is very easy on the ear.  Where the differences are clear to me are in the frequency extremes where the X26 Pro has a more structural and punchy bass end with extreme extension (which my big Ushers love), and a filigree treble with lots of micro-detail that is a specialism of the ES9038 Pro chipset.  Finally, the dynamics of my X26 Pro are on another level, although the U18 has really helped in that regard, too.  It's your choice: for me, I'm glad I ordered the X26 Pro.
> 
> One final point: the A22 is in high demand (and is now unobtainable) because of the shortage of the AKM chipset, so you might be able to secure a good sale price on it.


Thanks. It's ironic you posted now because within the last 5 minutes I figured out that the fuses are easy to get in and out through that little access door by the power cord connector. I was thinking whether the U18 or the A22/X26 Pro I was going to have to take them all apart and then carefully get the fuse replaced without damaging or touching any of the delicate or high voltage stuff. I'm very happy with this development


----------



## Highfive99

milkdudd said:


> Thanks. It's ironic you posted now because within the last 5 minutes I figured out that the fuses are easy to get in and out through that little access door by the power cord connector. I was thinking whether the U18 or the A22/X26 Pro I was going to have to take them all apart and then carefully get the fuse replaced without damaging or touching any of the delicate or high voltage stuff. I'm very happy with this development


As MartinWT stated the great dynamics and especially the deep, defined, clean, tight punchy bass is what you'll get with the X26Pro with a good fuse and chord. Voices are so incredibly precisely placed and accurate. Recently I was thinking of going to a Holo Spring 3 KTE DAC (over $3k USD) but after installing the Purple fuses in the U18 and X26Pro I have no desire to go with a Holo anymore. IMHO spending double the cost of the X26pro will not get me double the fidelity.
Only thing with the fuses to be aware of is they are directional. Which direction you install them in the holders makes a difference. This past weekend I flipped the fuse around in the U18 and I could hear a noticeable improvement immediately.


----------



## milkdudd

Highfive99 said:


> As MartinWT stated the great dynamics and especially the deep, defined, clean, tight punchy bass is what you'll get with the X26Pro with a good fuse and chord. Voices are so incredibly precisely placed and accurate. Recently I was thinking of going to a Holo Spring 3 KTE DAC (over $3k USD) but after installing the Purple fuses in the U18 and X26Pro I have no desire to go with a Holo anymore. IMHO spending double the cost of the X26pro will not get me double the fidelity.
> Only thing with the fuses to be aware of is they are directional. Which direction you install them in the holders makes a difference. This past weekend I flipped the fuse around in the U18 and I could hear a noticeable improvement immediately.


Thanks so much for all the input. T1000 has kindly told me which fuse I will need for the U18. Can you tell me which fuse I will need for the Dac? As long as the A22 and the X26 Pro use the same fuse I'll put it in the A22 for now. I'll switch it over if (more likely when) I move up to the X26 Pro


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## T 1000 (Mar 15, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> Thanks so much for all the input. T1000 has kindly told me which fuse I will need for the U18. Can you tell me which fuse I will need for the Dac? As long as the A22 and the X26 Pro use the same fuse I'll put it in the A22 for now. I'll switch it over if (more likely when) I move up to the X26 Pro


I also want to warn you (if it's not too late), there are a lot of users who do not hear any changes by replacing fuses, maybe it is safer to go with Gustad fuses.
I took a risk with purple, and that is the biggest gain for me, for the investment
Maybe it's better to go with less investments


----------



## kumar402 (Mar 15, 2022)

I have a NUC running Roon Core with generic power supply or can get Pi4 with Allo Shanti LPS. Which will be better to use with Gustard U18? Anyone tried similar setup ?


----------



## Highfive99

milkdudd said:


> Thanks so much for all the input. T1000 has kindly told me which fuse I will need for the U18. Can you tell me which fuse I will need for the Dac? As long as the A22 and the X26 Pro use the same fuse I'll put it in the A22 for now. I'll switch it over if (more likely when) I move up to the X26 Pro


The X26pro uses a 3.15 amp slow blow fuse. The A22 is also a dual DAC chip unit so I would suspect it uses the same rating fuse. Can always pop yours out and check the rating.

And to T1000's point about some people not hearing the difference, either their systems weren't resolving enough to hear a differencew or they are fuse deniers to begin with. In my due diligence of researching the validity of spending what I would consider stupid money for a fuse I would say over 98-99% of people who replaced fuses found a definite noticeable improvement. Most of the negative responses I came across were from people who didn't believe a fuse could make a difference to begin with. I was very skeptical too until I tried  them.  SR Purples, while  expensive, can be returned up to 30 days so what's to lose? Get them, burn them in and listen. Not worth it to you then just return them. I'm keeping mine!


----------



## FOUNDERZERO

Highfive99 said:


> As MartinWT stated the great dynamics and especially the deep, defined, clean, tight punchy bass is what you'll get with the X26Pro with a good fuse and chord. Voices are so incredibly precisely placed and accurate. Recently I was thinking of going to a Holo Spring 3 KTE DAC (over $3k USD) but after installing the Purple fuses in the U18 and X26Pro I have no desire to go with a Holo anymore. IMHO spending double the cost of the X26pro will not get me double the fidelity.
> Only thing with the fuses to be aware of is they are directional. Which direction you install them in the holders makes a difference. This past weekend I flipped the fuse around in the U18 and I could hear a noticeable improvement immediately.


Just curious... is your fuse's orientation similar to the following graphic provided by Gustard? This is the direction I have my SR Purple in and I'm quite pleased.


----------



## T 1000

FOUNDERZERO said:


> Just curious... is your fuse's orientation similar to the following graphic provided by Gustard? This is the direction I have my SR Purple in and I'm quite pleased.


I didn't see any direction on my purple. If there is a direction, would you tell me where it is on the fuse.


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## T 1000

Highfive99 said:


> The X26pro uses a 3.15 amp slow blow fuse. The A22 is also a dual DAC chip unit so I would suspect it uses the same rating fuse. Can always pop yours out and check the rating.
> 
> And to T1000's point about some people not hearing the difference, either their systems weren't resolving enough to hear a differencew or they are fuse deniers to begin with. In my due diligence of researching the validity of spending what I would consider stupid money for a fuse I would say over 98-99% of people who replaced fuses found a definite noticeable improvement. Most of the negative responses I came across were from people who didn't believe a fuse could make a difference to begin with. I was very skeptical too until I tried  them.  SR Purples, while  expensive, can be returned up to 30 days so what's to lose? Get them, burn them in and listen. Not worth it to you then just return them. I'm keeping mine!


@doitttt- is in those 1%


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## Highfive99

T 1000 said:


> I didn't see any direction on my purple. If there is a direction, would you tell me where it is on the fuse.


Yes that's the correct orientation. For the Purple I have read the direction is left to right when reading the label on the fuse.


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## MartinWT (Mar 16, 2022)

If in doubt about fuse direction, use a test meter in beep mode and touch the Live (Hot) pin of the chassis socket with one probe and try both fuse connectors (with the fuse removed) with the other probe.  The one that beeps is the input to the fuse.  Now ensure the fuse is oriented with arrow from the input or the writing can be read so that input is on the left.


----------



## Highfive99

MartinWT said:


> If in doubt about fuse direction, use a test meter in beep mode and touch the Live (Hot) pin of the chassis socket with one probe and try both fuse connectors (with the fuse removed) with the other probe.  The one that beeps is the input to the fuse.  Now ensure the fuse is oriented with arrow from the input or the writing can be read so that input is on the left.


If a tester isn't available, simply listening also works as I found this past weekend when I flipped the fuse around in my U18 and heard an improvement. Apparently I installed it wrong initially as the difference was clearly audible.


----------



## T 1000

Both times I hit blindly. Thinking about investing in games of chance


----------



## milkdudd

Mine is on the delivery truck. Excitement building. Trying to remember how long you guys said it should run before expecting the good sound


----------



## kumar402

milkdudd said:


> Mine is on the delivery truck. Excitement building. Trying to remember how long you guys said it should run before expecting the good sound


Well it’s 2 weeks but you will hear good sound right out of box.


----------



## T 1000

Highfive99 said:


> ,...can be returned up to 30 days ...


Good advice, I would just like to add that not all dealers give that option, so be careful when you buy


----------



## milkdudd (Mar 16, 2022)

If I do pay $200 each for a couple of fuses, I'm going to keep that information to myself. The crowd I hang with wouldn't get it. Would probably ask if I got any magic beans with them. Once I started telling my cousin about my stereo room. Was a listing all of the different components in it. About 30 seconds in he interrupted. Said why don't you just get Bose and be done with it. He's a totally lovable guy and wasn't trying to be a smart-a**. He was trying to be helpful. I think I told him if I was going with home theater that's what I would do. I haven't brought up high end audio since


----------



## Highfive99

milkdudd said:


> Mine is on the delivery truck. Excitement building. Trying to remember how long you guys said it should run before expecting the good sound


As Kumar says right out of the box. But it gets better with more time.


----------



## Highfive99

T 1000 said:


> Good advice, I would just like to add that not all dealers give that option, so be careful when you buy


This dealer does and they're in PA.  https://www.thecableco.com/


----------



## MartinWT

It starts off well and gets better. The power cable and fuse are likely to take longer to burn in. I've just put a new Coherent 6D cable on it with SR Red plug fuse and Gustard fuse in the rear panel.


----------



## MartinWT

The AVplay HD-300 cable arrived yesterday and is on constant internet music to burn-in.  Like all silver cables I've ever used, it sounds 'clanky' from new but is starting to settle down.  I can hear tremendous detail in there and I'll comment more when it has at least 100 hours on it.


----------



## T 1000

I love when my new cables have a pronounced shine, I know I made a good choice, after 100-200 hours they will be completely transparent and neutral


----------



## T 1000

I just plugged in, Isotek Initium-Ifi Ipower Elite-Idefender 3.0.
I don't hear any improvement, maybe it's too early ...


----------



## kumar402 (Mar 17, 2022)

T 1000 said:


> I just plugged in, Isotek Initium-Ifi Ipower Elite-Idefender 3.0.
> I don't hear any improvement, maybe it's too early ...


Well Gustard U18 already has good system in place to isolate noise from USB and avoid ground loops, I’m not sure what extra Ifi idefender will bring in.

I mean, I’m all in for maximizing the output of device by upgrading power cable, fuse and what not but the whole purpose of DDC is to break ground loop, clear noise and reclock to remove jitter produced by isolator, so introducing another device for breaking ground loop etc is just like a futile activity.


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 17, 2022)

kumar402 said:


> Well Gustard U18 already has good system in place to isolate noise from USB and avoid ground loops, I’m not sure what extra Ifi idefender will bring in.
> 
> I mean, I’m all in for maximizing the output of device by upgrading power cable, fuse and what not but the whole purpose of DDC is to break ground loop, clear noise and reclock to remove jitter produced by isolator, so introducing another device for breaking ground loop etc is just like a futile activity.


The second hour of listening - there is a change, it is too early to judge, but it seems to me that it adds shine and airiness and an additional level of clarity in the details.
For the sound of the level as it was before the addition of the IFI, even a small shift is welcome and commendable
I'm not sure, maybe I imagined ... I'll see in the future


----------



## milkdudd

T 1000 said:


> The second hour of listening - there is a change, it is too early to judge, but it seems to me that it adds shine and airiness and an additional level of clarity in the details.
> For the sound of the level as it was before the addition of the IFI, even a small shift is welcome and commendable
> I'm not sure, maybe I imagined ... I'll see in the future


So many variables make it hard to determine cause and effect of the changes we make. For instance I do most of my critical listening after midnight. I'm a night owl anyway. For years I thought maybe it was my imagination that my system sounded it's best way after midnight. Then a high-end audio dealer told me the demand on the power grid is far less at that time and the incoming electricity is much cleaner.


----------



## T 1000

milkdudd said:


> So many variables make it hard to determine cause and effect of the changes we make. For instance I do most of my critical listening after midnight. I'm a night owl anyway. For years I thought maybe it was my imagination that my system sounded it's best way after midnight. Then a high-end audio dealer told me the demand on the power grid is far less at that time and the incoming electricity is much cleaner.


Yes, that was my dilemma a long time ago, and I came to the same conclusion. As for Elite power, it definitely raises the level of cleanliness, making the fun even more fascinating.


----------



## milkdudd

T 1000 said:


> Yes, that was my dilemma a long time ago, and I came to the same conclusion. As for Elite power, it definitely raises the level of cleanliness, making the fun even more fascinating.


Yep, some of us are the fortunate ones that can stay up real late, in my case after working several decades of starting at 7 or 8 in the morning, 6 and 7 days a week. The way I look at it now if I can listen when the power grid is less stressed, and use power conditioning and real good cables, that's about as good as it gets. That and a Gustard U18, so far I'm loving this thing


----------



## T 1000

As I listen to Granite-Pendulum, everything is clear and the energy coming in waves


----------



## SKR987

Hi I am new to this site as a member. But I have been following this thread for some time now. After reading favourable comments about Gustard U18, I decided to buy one. Also got Gustard I2s cable from Shenzhen audio. I think both U18 and the I2s cable are fantastic products and improvements can be observed right away.
My system Roon Nucleus, SOTM streamer, U18 and HQPlayer on Mac mini. Waiting for U18 and I2s cable to complete about 200/250 hours to reach its optimum performance.
Will be looking forward to add Purple fuses in future, which have been recommended by many on this thread.


----------



## EMINENT

SKR987 said:


> Hi I am new to this site as a member. But I have been following this thread for some time now. After reading favourable comments about Gustard U18, I decided to buy one. Also got Gustard I2s cable from Shenzhen audio. I think both U18 and the I2s cable are fantastic products and improvements can be observed right away.
> My system Roon Nucleus, SOTM streamer, U18 and HQPlayer on Mac mini. Waiting for U18 and I2s cable to complete about 200/250 hours to reach its optimum performance.
> Will be looking forward to add Purple fuses in future, which have been recommended by many on this thread.


Looking forward to your thoughts with before and after purple fuses.


----------



## T 1000

The C18 is extremely unpopular, neither review nor user experience on the network


----------



## T 1000

Why?


----------



## Musikfan

Highfive99 said:


> I got my U18 and X26pro from Aoshida-HiFi-US through Amazon. I ordered the X26Pro on a Sunday evening and got it 4 days later.  The U18 took 13 days FedEx shipping from China at no cost. And Aoshida has great customer service with follow up emails to make sure their customers are happy. I replied there was no user manual for X26pro and they emailed me the PDF for it the same day.  Between quick shipping, excellent customer service and purchase follow up, I can't recommend them enough





Highfive99 said:


> I got my U18 and X26pro from Aoshida-HiFi-US through Amazon. I ordered the X26Pro on a Sunday evening and got it 4 days later.  The U18 took 13 days FedEx shipping from China at no cost. And Aoshida has great customer service with follow up emails to make sure their customers are happy. I replied there was no user manual for X26pro and they emailed me the PDF for it the same day.  Between quick shipping, excellent customer service and purchase follow up, I can't recommend them enough





Highfive99 said:


> I got my U18 and X26pro from Aoshida-HiFi-US through Amazon. I ordered the X26Pro on a Sunday evening and got it 4 days later.  The U18 took 13 days FedEx shipping from China at no cost. And Aoshida has great customer service with follow up emails to make sure their customers are happy. I replied there was no user manual for X26pro and they emailed me the PDF for it the same day.  Between quick shipping, excellent customer service and purchase follow up, I can't recommend them enough


Thanks for the recommendation...much appreciated


----------



## milkdudd (Mar 18, 2022)

T 1000 said:


> The C18 is extremely unpopular, neither review nor user experience on the network


An external clock would be the last piece of the puzzle for me. If the C18 is disappointing is there one you have heard good things about? Also considering my U18/A22 current setup, is an external clock really worth it or are we looking at diminishing returns. I will certainly be doing fuse upgrades. Likely an I2s cable upgrade. And possibly move up to the X26 Pro. I use a Cullen Crossover power cable which seems fine to me but I haven't compared others. So upgrading there is also a possibility. Just wondering which upgrades are most cost-effective at this point. I'm kind of trying to limit to one significant purchase each month. Also if I did upgrade to the X26 Pro it has its own clock input. I assume however I would hook up the clock to the U18. Make sense?


----------



## funkur

After comparing the U18 on the Auralic Aries G1 and old Aries Femto, the G1 is still superior.  The U18 is an awesome piece of gear, but a great source is still a great source.  (Full disclosure- I sold the G1 to free up funds, but am hoping my ears stop missing it)

To the folks who recommended a RPi or similar, not my bag personally - I hate the software available and don’t want to run Roon.


----------



## kumar402

funkur said:


> After comparing the U18 on the Auralic Aries G1 and old Aries Femto, the G1 is still superior.  The U18 is an awesome piece of gear, but a great source is still a great source.  (Full disclosure- I sold the G1 to free up funds, but am hoping my ears stop missing it)
> 
> To the folks who recommended a RPi or similar, not my bag personally - I hate the software available and don’t want to run Roon.


Yes, pi requires some fiddling with software and little experiment with software for user’s specific need. For Roon, Spotify connect, UPnP, Airplay - RopieeXL is good place to start with. In case you are worried about noise etc then you can power off lot of functionalities of Pi and power it with LPS for a silent source but ya it will need some trial and error and internet search if you are doing for first time.


----------



## MartinWT

For a USB output streamer to match the U18, I can recommend the ultraRendu. It has lower noise performance than the Raspberry Pi or Asus Tinkerboard, both of which I've used, and supports DLNA as well as Roon. I use it in DLNA mode with BubbleUPnP for Android, which is nice streaming control software, and Qobuz. It can also be a Spotify Device.

The whole thing is stable and reliable. I come in from work, turn the power amp on, select music and play. No hiccups, no drama. Just outstanding music.


----------



## wstam

Hi, I am new to DDC, started knowing them more on this forum. My DAC doesn't have I2S interface. So is it still worth the money and efforts in U18 for the AES interface. And will AES interface further benefit from adding an external clock to U18? I know I have read some of you guys here also not using I2S and like the . I just wonder if the benefits is worth the cost, including the dealing with additional two devices plus their PS....

Thanks in advance...


----------



## kumar402

wstam said:


> Hi, I am new to DDC, started knowing them more on this forum. My DAC doesn't have I2S interface. So is it still worth the money and efforts in U18 for the AES interface. And will AES interface further benefit from adding an external clock to U18? I know I have read some of you guys here also not using I2S and like the . I just wonder if the benefits is worth the cost, including the dealing with additional two devices plus their PS....
> 
> Thanks in advance...


Yes, better clock has positive impact on digital out like SPDIF. Only with SPDIF the clock information is with data so your dac has to recover it but it’s such a rudimentary thing that any good dac will do it without any issue and hence DDC will surely help you. Don’t have any second doubt about it. Also AES is balanced so it helps in removing any kind of ground loop or noise which no other digital output can do. So use AES without any 2nd thought


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 19, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> Спољни сат би за мене био последњи део слагалице. Ако је Ц18 разочаравајући, постоји ли неко о коме сте чули добре ствари? Такође, с обзиром на моје тренутне поставке за У18/А22, да ли је екстерни сат заиста вредан тога или гледамо на све мањи принос. Сигурно ћу радити надоградњу осигурача. Вероватно надоградња И2с кабла. И можда прећи на Кс26 Про. Користим Цуллен Цроссовер кабл за напајање који ми се чини у реду, али нисам поредио друге. Дакле, постоји и могућност надоградње. Питам се само које су надоградње у овом тренутку најисплативије. Покушавам да ограничим на једну значајну куповину сваког месеца. Такође, ако сам надоградио на Кс26 Про, он има свој улаз за сат. Међутим, претпостављам да бих спојио сат на У18. Има смисла?


The most frequent show here is After Dark ocxo and everyone is happy with it.
About power cords, they are a necessary investment, do not hesitate to spend a little more on them and on the used market, they have a great impact on sound.


wstam said:


> Hi, I am new to DDC, started knowing them more on this forum. My DAC doesn't have I2S interface. So is it still worth the money and efforts in U18 for the AES interface. And will AES interface further benefit from adding an external clock to U18? I know I have read some of you guys here also not using I2S and like the . I just wonder if the benefits is worth the cost, including the dealing with additional two devices plus their PS....
> 
> Thanks in advance...


I have only tried Supra DAC -AES and HiDiamond Digital References and I can recommend both


I compared the benefits with Idefender-Ifi power Elite and without, there are changes, but they are very nuanced and unprofitable upgrade. I will continue to use them .


----------



## wstam

kumar402 said:


> Yes, better clock has positive impact on digital out like SPDIF. Only with SPDIF the clock information is with data so your dac has to recover it but it’s such a rudimentary thing that any good dac will do it without any issue and hence DDC will surely help you. Don’t have any second doubt about it. Also AES is balanced so it helps in removing any kind of ground loop or noise which no other digital output can do. So use AES without any 2nd thought



Good to know. Thanks.


----------



## wstam

T 1000 said:


> I have only tried Supra DAC -AES and HiDiamond Digital References and I can recommend both
> 
> I compared the benefits with Idefender-Ifi power Elite and without, there are changes, but they are very nuanced and unprofitable upgrade. I will continue to use them .



Thanks for replying, but I am not sure what are you comparing here with regard to my question on the benefit of DCC for AES. Sorry may be because I am new to DDC.


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 19, 2022)

wstam said:


> Thanks for replying, but I am not sure what are you comparing here with regard to my question on the benefit of DCC for AES. Sorry may be because I am new to DDC.


Ha Ha, I only recommended those two cables to you
The comparison has nothing to do with you, just my impression of the components I bought because I read somewhere that it contributes to the system I have, and about which I have previously expressed my impressions


----------



## wstam

T 1000 said:


> Ha Ha, I only recommended those two cables to you
> The comparison has nothing to do with you, just my impression of the components I bought because I read somewhere that it contributes to the system I have, and about which I have previously expressed my impressions


Oh. Got it.  Will take note. Thanks


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 19, 2022)

wstam said:


> Oh. Got it.  Will take note. Thanks


My impression is that Supra has a slightly warmer scene, while HiDiamond is neutral with more detail 
I really can't imagine I2s being better than my HiDiamond


----------



## Matthew Willims (Mar 20, 2022)

Ok, I’m done with any further changes in my system. The Gustard U18 is a fantastic bit of kit. I’ve found the SR Purple made an incredible difference (as it did in my DAC and power amp) though also Audiolund Signature power cable for my amp and Audiolund Reference power cables for my Musician Aquarius DAC and Gustard U18. The Farad Super3 that powers my AfterDark Emperor Double Crown OCXO clock has a Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme3 Silver/Gold fuse and fake Accuphase power cable. Everything goes through a Musical Paradise MP-T1 balanced isolation transformer. There’s a double shielded Duelund silver clock cable between the Gustard and AfterDark

I also moved from the AVPlay HD300 I2S cable to an Audiolund XTreme I2S cable which I found significantly more natural sounding in my system.

Really the weakest link in my system would be my passively cooled, LPS powered media PC. A Sonore UltraRendu would no doubt give better results but a my wife will not learn how to use the system so I’m limited to a single source and a media PC brings the greatest flexibility. The Eno-Ag filter does make a difference.

Things sound just so full and real sounding it’s incredible. I must agree with others. Wherever used the SR Purple improves sound. It’s not lacking in certain areas like previous SR fuses were. The Orange for example seemed a bit lean in terms of bass.


----------



## MartinWT

Interesting. I'm just beginning to perceive a preference for the Blue Jeans FE over the AVplay HD-300 cable. It's calmer while still carrying tremendous detail. 

I'll listen some more to both before delivering a verdict.


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 20, 2022)

Matthew Willims said:


> There’s a double shielded Duelund silver clock cable between the Gustard and AfterDark


Nice system
Can you refer me to that cable, and is that connection between U18 and the Double Crown 75 ohm?


----------



## milkdudd

Due to cost I'll probably buy one purple fuse a month for the next few months. Would you guys first put one in the U18 or the A22 dac if you had to choose? I'm going to check and see if they offer one for my ATC P1 Pro power amp and Violectric V281 headphone amp also


----------



## kumar402

Is this the fuse and I hope we need 1 for this DDC for 220v?


----------



## T 1000

kumar402 said:


> Is this the fuse and I hope we need 1 for this DDC for 220v?


Yes, just one


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 20, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> Due to cost I'll probably buy one purple fuse a month for the next few months. Would you guys first put one in the U18 or the A22 dac if you had to choose? I'm going to check and see if they offer one for my ATC P1 Pro power amp and Violectric V281 headphone amp also


Once you get it, you can change its location to your liking. Start with U18, because it's really easy to put
Disconnect the power cord from the U18 when installing the fuse
Sorry for the remarks


----------



## milkdudd

T 1000 said:


> Once you get it, you can change its location to your liking. Start with U18, because it's really easy to put
> Disconnect the power cord from the U18 when installing the fuse
> Sorry for the remarks


Okay I will start with the U18 but when it comes to the dac doesn't that need one with a different amp rating? 3.15 amp or something like that compared to 500ma?


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 20, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> Okay I will start with the U18 but when it comes to the dac doesn't that need one with a different amp rating? 3.15 amp or something like that compared to 500ma?


Of course, my mistake
I put in the U18 first and was thrilled, so feel free to take the U18 first


----------



## MartinWT

milkdudd said:


> Due to cost I'll probably buy one purple fuse a month for the next few months. Would you guys first put one in the U18 or the A22 dac if you had to choose?



The DAC for me is where an SR Purple made the greatest impact.


----------



## T 1000

MartinWT said:


> The DAC for me is where an SR Purple made the greatest impact.


For me, that impact was masked by a new AES cable that was full of glare


----------



## milkdudd

MartinWT said:


> The DAC for me is where an SR Purple made the greatest impact.


I'm so confused, my head is all aflutter. But in a good way. I'll probably just by both fuses together. If I do the same for my amps, those will have to wait. Thanks


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 20, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> I'm so confused, my head is all aflutter. But in a good way. I'll probably just by both fuses together. If I do the same for my amps, those will have to wait. Thanks



wherever  put it you will not be disappointed


----------



## Matthew Willims

T 1000 said:


> Nice system
> Can you refer me to that cable, and is that connection between U18 and the Double Crown 75 ohm?


That was custom made for me by Geoff of Aurealis Audio. Perhaps if you contacted him he could advise of a cost?

https://www.aurealisaudio.com.au/

Keep in mind that Aurealis is a 1 man show  so when emailing there will be 24 hours or so for a reply. Ask about the 75ohm silver Duelund clock cable Matt had made up.


----------



## milkdudd

T 1000 said:


> wherever  put it you will not be disappointed


I'm not the type to make cliche comments like "That's what she said" but if I was........


----------



## Matthew Willims

milkdudd said:


> I'm not the type to make cliche comments like "That's what she said" but if I was........



I’ve not upgraded the fuse in the LPS for my media PC. I can’t really believe it would make difference there.


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 20, 2022)

Matthew Willims said:


> That was custom made for me by Geoff of Aurealis Audio. Perhaps if you contacted him he could advise of a cost?
> 
> https://www.aurealisaudio.com.au/
> 
> Keep in mind that Aurealis is a 1 man show  so when emailing there will be 24 hours or so for a reply. Ask about the 75ohm silver Duelund clock cable Matt had made up.


Thanks, I read your impressions of that cable on another forum, and I would love to have such a connection in my system


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 21, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> I'm not the type to make cliche comments like "That's what she said" but if I was........


It's nice to start the day with a joke


----------



## Matthew Willims

T 1000 said:


> Thanks, I read your impressions of that cable on another forum, and I would love to have such a connection in my system




Aye, it’s a really fantastic cable. One of only two pure silver cables run in my system (also the Gothic Audio Semperfi USB). Most other interconnects in my system use Duelund copper or tinned copper mixed with either Neotech copper or in the case of speaker cables some silver. The Audiolund I2S cable unusually uses tinned copper which shouldn’t work well at all but rather sounds very natural. Typical Duelund sound signature. Basically I’ve come to find silver needs to be used very sparingly or the benefits it brings in terms of insight into the mix becomes a negative.

That said my Pass Mini Aleph amp runs gold plated silver Neotech between the RCA connectors and circuit boards. Brings a little mellowness and warmth to things.

But the Duelund silver seems odd in that if anything it sounds warm with none of the brightness or leanness that can often be attributed to silver yet it still brings insight. Certainly the best silver wire I’ve come across bar none.


----------



## MartinWT

After a long listen to my system back with the Blue Jeans FE cable last night, I tend to agree with you. The AVplay runs too hot and I don't think is going to calm down sufficiently for me where the Usher beryllium drivers reveal absolutely everything. The BJ FE is a highly specified copper HDMI cable and sounds wonderfully natural for I2S.


----------



## Matthew Willims

MartinWT said:


> After a long listen to my system back with the Blue Jeans FE cable last night, I tend to agree with you. The AVplay runs too hot and I don't think is going to calm down sufficiently for me where the Usher beryllium drivers reveal absolutely everything. The BJ FE is a highly specified copper HDMI cable and sounds wonderfully natural for I2S.



I think it might be quite good in a mellow and full sounding system but those that tend towards transparency already it just a bit much.


----------



## kumar402

milkdudd said:


> I'm so confused, my head is all aflutter. But in a good way. I'll probably just by both fuses together. If I do the same for my amps, those will have to wait. Thanks


Relax and listen to U18 in vanilla and don’t worry about fuse and power cable. Only after a month or 2 if you feel like improving upon something that you go for upgrade in component. 
There is no limit to what all you can upgrade so just relax and enjoy music.


----------



## Matthew Willims (Mar 21, 2022)

Aye, that way you’ll know how it sounds stock and the improvement each change makes. 

Less painful financially also. Upgrade fuses before power cables though as the fuse change will make the power cable change more audible.


----------



## kumar402 (Mar 21, 2022)

So I replaced the MacBook Pro with Pi4 powered by Uptone UltraCaps LPS 1.2 and I feel Pi4 with good LPS is a fantastic source for U18. Although UltraCaps is limited by 1.1A but I checked with multimeter and just using Pi4 as Roon bridge hardly takes more then 600mA but keep in mind I have disabled all the LEDs, HDMI, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi etc on Pi4 to conserve as much energy as possible.

I am using Sonnet Morpheus via AES with ZMF Verite Closed and ECP Ravenswood amp. This combo is giving fantastic out of head experience. The stage is wide and deep with superb layering. I hope this thing keeps improving as I’m still only a week + few days into U18.

I do have Allo Shanti LPS which I will eventually use with Pi4 but Ultracaps do have some magic and makes everything sound good.


----------



## milkdudd

Matthew Willims said:


> Aye, that way you’ll know how it sounds stock and the improvement each change makes.
> 
> Less painful financially also. Upgrade fuses before power cables though as the fuse change will make the power cable change more audible.


All great advice and much appreciated. However I already had extra power cables that are already fully broken in so I've been using them all along. They are Cullen Cable crossover series. I use one each for the U18 and the A22. I'm not sure how well known they are but seem great for the price. Not sure but I think they are now partnered with Wyred for Sound so they might get more notoriety soon. I do agree on waiting a bit for the fuse change so I can make a good comparison


----------



## Matthew Willims

mantraone said:


> Now a question from my side, anybody have issue with U18 reset "ramdomly"? Looks like happens only when change the sample rate ex from 96/24 to 44,1/16 the firmware reboot, nothing terrible only at the beginning of a track but sometime during a playlist repruduction is terrible. Firmware upgreade?
> 
> Now using the GU16V1_61_NFB.rom
> 
> ...



Mmmm, I hope I don’t experience this issue. I’ve an Accurate Audio DAC D1000 on order. Been curious about it for over a year and want to see how it compares with my Musician Aquarius.


----------



## kumar402

mantraone said:


> Now a question from my side, anybody have issue with U18 reset "ramdomly"? Looks like happens only when change the sample rate ex from 96/24 to 44,1/16 the firmware reboot, nothing terrible only at the beginning of a track but sometime during a playlist repruduction is terrible. Firmware upgreade?
> 
> Now using the GU16V1_61_NFB.rom
> 
> ...


What do you mean with reset, the music stops altogether ? Or just a pause and plays again by itself ?


----------



## mantraone

kumar402 said:


> What do you mean with reset, the music stops altogether ? Or just a pause and plays again by itself ?


So, with the Gustard U16 the old model, was like power off/on but very randomly and no very often, with the New Gustard U18 I see in the Rockna Wavelight (mode Gustard Pinout setting) just like no connection all the times that I try to play track at sample rate 48/24, 96/54, 192/24. As I wrote before by roon you can create a sort of workaround with the upsample to 384/24 only for this 3 kinds of samples rate.


----------



## MartinWT

mantraone said:


> So, with the Gustard U16 the old model, was like power off/on but very randomly and no very often, with the New Gustard U18 I see in the Rockna Wavelight (mode Gustard Pinout setting) just like no connection all the times that I try to play track at sample rate 48/24, 96/54, 192/24. As I wrote before by roon you can create a sort of workaround with the upsample to 384/24 only for this 3 kinds of samples rate.


I've never seen the U18 reset at all and it's been on for three weeks now. Many different resolutions from Qobuz, all behaving themselves perfectly.


----------



## kumar402

mantraone said:


> So, with the Gustard U16 the old model, was like power off/on but very randomly and no very often, with the New Gustard U18 I see in the Rockna Wavelight (mode Gustard Pinout setting) just like no connection all the times that I try to play track at sample rate 48/24, 96/54, 192/24. As I wrote before by roon you can create a sort of workaround with the upsample to 384/24 only for this 3 kinds of samples rate.


Roon is notorious for such issues and new builds have one issue or another and I would try other player as well.


----------



## mantraone

kumar402 said:


> Roon is notorious for such issues and new builds have one issue or another and I would try other player as well.


This is not a problem of roon builds, looks a Gustard U18 issue, because other DDC like Singxer SU-6 works well from the point of view of functionallity with my DAC Rockna Wavelight, roon normally is very stable software if you dedicate a Fanless PC with Roon Rock server. Also the U16 works better then the U18. I hope they can fix this  with new firmware version.


----------



## Matthew Willims

mantraone said:


> This is not a problem of roon builds, looks a Gustard U18 issue, because other DDC like Singxer SU-6 works well from the point of view of functionallity with my DAC Rockna Wavelight, roon normally is very stable software if you dedicate a Fanless PC with Roon Rock server. Also the U16 works better then the U18. I hope they can fix this  with new firmware version.



Works fantastically with a Synology DS1621+ NAS as server also and the cables PC as end point.


----------



## soumya.banerjee

mantraone said:


> So, with the Gustard U16 the old model, was like power off/on but very randomly and no very often, with the New Gustard U18 I see in the Rockna Wavelight (mode Gustard Pinout setting) just like no connection all the times that I try to play track at sample rate 48/24, 96/54, 192/24. As I wrote before by roon you can create a sort of workaround with the upsample to 384/24 only for this 3 kinds of samples rate.


Not sure I completely follow your issue - Rockna DACs do internal 8x oversampling. 
So you are saying for 48kHz family - except 384kHz, the DAC takes a long time to lock to the signal via IIS ?

PS: I have had no issues with U-18 feeding IIS to Holo Spring, Gustard X16 and Gustard X18. The DDC firmware is rock solid.
It sounds like some weird PLL issue with Rockna (though not entirely sure). Will be great if you can succinctly explain the nature of the issue. May be a short video or some pictures?


----------



## doitttt

new driver to gustard u18 
v.5.30
http://www.gustard.cn/?page_id=8956


----------



## Highfive99

doitttt said:


> new driver to gustard u18
> v.5.30
> http://www.gustard.cn/?page_id=8956


Kind of strange they go from 5.0.0 to 5.30.0  with nothing in between.


----------



## soumya.banerjee

Windows drivers are published by Thesycon. OEMs like Gustard et al only license their VID and PIDs with Thesycon for a given USB Audio Receiver like XMOS.
Consequently it's not Gustard who dictates the driver version


----------



## mantraone

soumya.banerjee said:


> Not sure I completely follow your issue - Rockna DACs do internal 8x oversampling.
> So you are saying for 48kHz family - except 384kHz, the DAC takes a long time to lock to the signal via IIS ?
> 
> PS: I have had no issues with U-18 feeding IIS to Holo Spring, Gustard X16 and Gustard X18. The DDC firmware is rock solid.
> It sounds like some weird PLL issue with Rockna (though not entirely sure). Will be great if you can succinctly explain the nature of the issue. May be a short video or some pictures?


Wrote a couple of email to Gustard customer service and also to Rockna, but no solution, only Rockna support suggested to upgrade the DAC firmware with the last one...nothing changes.

I also tried to replace I2S cable with others, change the parameters in SOtM sMS like buffers size and delays...


----------



## Researcher

just curious if U18 is compatible with topping D70s pinout. The below pictures show signal positions. If you can help me out in this manner and say which set-ups of both devices are matching,  I would be glad. 

U18:





D70s:


----------



## soumya.banerjee

Researcher said:


> just curious if U18 is compatible with topping D70s pinout. The below pictures show signal positions. If you can help me out in this manner and say which set-ups of both devices are matching,  I would be glad.
> 
> U18:
> 
> ...


From the pics, Topping default settings for IIS Phase, DSD R and DSD Flag are pin compatible with U18 Gustard setting. Leave both devices on defaults, you should be good.


----------



## Flm09

As per YouTube video by Thrambar. If you have Musician Draco is it plug and play with the Gustard u18 DDC? For example of which mode would you use for I2S?


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 29, 2022)

Instead of the ordinary  I set Inakustik Referenz netzwerkkabel cat7 .This I started the future configuration to clear the net connection.
I did not expect significant sound changes by installing that cable, but I experienced a shock level of purple fuse.
Fantastic experience (cable)


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 30, 2022)

Fuses, LAN cable... affect the sound !?
Many have a reaction that it is a scam, many of them will be aggressive in denying it.
Again, on the other hand, there are users who really don't hear the difference.
To the first, I know the answer, while to the latter I do not.


----------



## MartinWT

My personal findings are that everything affects sound quality.  Certainly cables, fuses, grounding boxes, vibration control, power supplies.


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 31, 2022)

Of course, until recently, I watched the comments about different LAN cables and their impact with mild disbelief.
I think that well-chosen cables (I mean all types of connections) affect the sound quality more than  I invested that money in better components instead of the existing ones, and that I connect all these new components with cheap cables that come with them.
I am sorry that there are so many loud opponents who influence the observers with their logical thinking, and many are stay blinded forever.
This primitivism goes even to the extent that the quality of amplifiers is considered a hoax for profit.
To me, this forum and this thread are a beacon for my future upgrades.
Faith is rewarded
My music is more exciting


----------



## milkdudd

T 1000 said:


> Of course, until recently, I watched the comments about different LAN cables and their impact with mild disbelief.
> I think that well-chosen cables (I mean all types of connections) affect the sound quality more than  I invested that money in better components instead of the existing ones, and that I connect all these new components with cheap cables that come with them.
> I am sorry that there are so many loud opponents who influence the observers with their logical thinking, and many are stay blinded forever.
> This primitivism goes even to the extent that the quality of amplifiers is considered a hoax for profit.
> ...


For a few years I used to believe people that made bold statements like "No blind test in history has ever shown a detectable difference between the cheapest cables and the most expensive cables" Then I arranged with a speaker cable manufacturer to send me a set of demos to evaluate. He told me there would be a couple of weeks wait. While waiting I kept reading more opinions on the subject and convinced myself expensive cables were indeed snake oil. So I called the cable builder to tell him to cancel my demos. Before I could make that point he told me they were in the mail to me. To make a long story even longer, after listening I ordered a set from him. First I upgraded speaker cables, then interconnects, USB and power cables. Had I not "accidentally" received those demos I might still be using off the spool wire for my speakers and Amazon cables everywhere else. And yes I even believe in power conditioning. A few times I have responded to the deniers to politely say you either don't have the equipment or the ears required to hear the difference


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 31, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> For a few years I used to believe people that made bold statements like "No blind test in history has ever shown a detectable difference between the cheapest cables and the most expensive cables" Then I arranged with a speaker cable manufacturer to send me a set of demos to evaluate. He told me there would be a couple of weeks wait. While waiting I kept reading more opinions on the subject and convinced myself expensive cables were indeed snake oil. So I called the cable builder to tell him to cancel my demos. Before I could make that point he told me they were in the mail to me. To make a long story even longer, after listening I ordered a set from him. First I upgraded speaker cables, then interconnects, USB and power cables. Had I not "accidentally" received those demos I might still be using off the spool wire for my speakers and Amazon cables everywhere else. And yes I even believe in power conditioning. A few times I have responded to the deniers to politely say you either don't have the equipment or the ears required to hear the difference


You were lucky
When components are insufficiently accepted in public opinion, curious audiophiles should buy with the possibility of return. For gamblers, the exciting anticipation is rewarded with greater intensity or the disappointment is greater.
 I belong to this last group


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 31, 2022)

My next upgrade will be the cheap Nuprime Omnia SW-8,powered by  ifi power elite who is currently unemployed


----------



## MartinWT

I have heard the difference power cables can make and tried my first, a Russ Andrews cable made from Kimber, very many years ago. Since then, I have upgraded several times but have now stopped since I have never heard a better one and all my power cables are the same brand.


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 31, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> I have heard the difference power cables can make and tried my first, a Russ Andrews cable made from Kimber, very many years ago. Since then, I have upgraded several times but have now stopped since I have never heard a better one and all my power cables are the same brand.


I fully understand your commitment to one cable.
For me, these are the cables for all my headphones - Cardas Clear Light


----------



## T 1000 (Mar 31, 2022)

And of course, I also had bad luck with power cords, for example Audioquest Z3, I didn't hear any change. While the Swiss entry-level power cord has brought great fullness and more detail, like my last -Tellurium Q Black


----------



## MartinWT

For me, it's Coherent 6D. All my power cables, DC cables, interconnects and speaker cables are from the same stable.


----------



## denti

How is this compared to the U16? I have an offer to get a used U16 for under $250 (still close to original sales price), but am wondering if it’s worth saving up for the U18. I have a Gustard X20 DAC That I’ll be using with it.


----------



## JaMo (Apr 1, 2022)

Save up and go for the U18. It performs on a much higher level. I have ordered my second U18 a day ago to upgrade from U16.

The U18 uses Accusilicon AS 338 Oscillators and the unit on its own is very good. If You add an external high quality 10 MHz  oscillator it is High End! Shenzhen Audio sell them now delivery included for USD449 and it is a bargain!


----------



## milkdudd

I noticed on another forum that the purple fuse is on sale. The "April sale" they call it. Buy two and get one free. On another note has anyone tried the U18 with the Topping D90? The original non mqa with a AKM chip. I have mine packaged up to sell but I might reconsider if the U18 breathes new life into it. I'd use it in a second system if I did


----------



## kingoftown1

@milkdudd I can't speak directly for the u18, but having experience with the same d90 + su6, there was a subtle but (imo) worthwhile improvement.  I'd imagine the u18 would be similar.  As to purple fuses, they're the real deal, though I couldn't speak to their particular effectiveness in the d90 or u18.


----------



## EMINENT

Are the fuses for U18 & X26


milkdudd said:


> I noticed on another forum that the purple fuse is on sale. The "April sale" they call it. Buy two and get one free. On another note has anyone tried the U18 with the Topping D90? The original non mqa with a AKM chip. I have mine packaged up to sell but I might reconsider if the U18 breathes new life into it. I'd use it in a second system if I did



Damn you. That is too good of a deal to pass up.


----------



## milkdudd (Apr 1, 2022)

EMINENT said:


> Are the fuses for U18 & X26
> 
> 
> Damn you. That is too good of a deal to pass up.


It's about time I cost you guys some money instead of the other way around 🥴. I was happy as a clam with my A22 dac before I knew the U18 even existed. Then I came here and the next thing you know I'm $530 poorer. $750 or so after I get the fuses. At least my unhappy bank account resulted in happy ears

As for which fuses are on sale it looked like a company-wide type of thing but I didn't have time to check yet


----------



## Flm09

I ordered a fuse from Aoshida Audio. Gold Nano. Worth a try for $25!😄


----------



## milkdudd

Flm09 said:


> I ordered a fuse from Aoshida Audio. Gold Nano. Worth a try for $25!😄


When you get it please let us know if you're happy with it


----------



## T 1000 (Apr 2, 2022)

Gustard fuse is praised on this thread with a noticeable change in sound, some prefer it to purple
But it is good to have more choices


----------



## Flm09

milkdudd said:


> When you get it please let us know if you're happy with it


Will do!


----------



## milkdudd

I know this is a U18 thread but I'm curious if any of you have listened to both the A22 dac and X26 Pro dac. As I have mentioned here a few times I have the A22 and only want to upgrade to the X26 Pro if it will be a noticeable improvement. Another consideration is with spring here I tend to shift a bit to some of my outdoor hobbies. I think I'll stick with Gustard but I'm thinking there might be new dac products from them by the fall. Anyone heard any rumors to that effect?


----------



## mantraone

Today I tested the U18 and the C18 master clock. Great combination for sure. Clearly the best result is the square wave. Soundstage amazing and into the back to speakers, very deep and stable, I changed the loadspeaker positionig with less "taoin" in order have also a wide orizontal dimension because it was too extended in depth. Great controll also on bass and high freq, no discussion. In general I think it could be a "final step", but need a final tuning to be 100% in my sound feeling, because looks like too perfect and need some warming taste. I don't know, probably using a different BNC cable? or... nobody have a similar impression implementig a masterclock?


----------



## MartinWT

For me, the master clock gives two very noticeable attributes: an enormous sense of space and the acoustic of the venue (if a live recording) with great front-to-back depth, as well as effects such as reverb; and whipcrack timing and dynamics, noticeable on both the macro chest-thumping level and also in tiny details everywhere.


----------



## EMINENT

So, I pulled the trigger on the U18 and Blue Jeans hdmi/i2s cable. Can someone tell me what pin out is needed for U18-X26 Pro?


----------



## JaMo

milkdudd said:


> I know this is a U18 thread but I'm curious if any of you have listened to both the A22 dac and X26 Pro dac. As I have mentioned here a few times I have the A22 and only want to upgrade to the X26 Pro if it will be a noticeable improvement. Another consideration is with spring here I tend to shift a bit to some of my outdoor hobbies. I think I'll stick with Gustard but I'm thinking there might be new dac products from them by the fall. Anyone heard any rumors to that effect?


I was stunned by the K2 synthesizer in the U18 used with my Mutec REF10 SE120 master clock. I couldn't resist to also go for the X26Pro that also uses the K2. The combo X26Pro + U18 is one of the best buys out there. And yes the X26Pro is a clear upgrade from A22. Please see Soundnews review:


----------



## T 1000

T 1000 said:


> My next upgrade will be the cheap Nuprime Omnia SW-8,powered by  ifi power elite who is currently unemployed


No, Nuprime omnia-8 is a bad idea. I have to look for another solution


----------



## PierPP

If anyone is interested I'm selling my U18


----------



## Highfive99

EMINENT said:


> So, I pulled the trigger on the U18 and Blue Jeans hdmi/i2s cable. Can someone tell me what pin out is needed for U18-X26 Pro?





EMINENT said:


> So, I pulled the trigger on the U18 and Blue Jeans hdmi/i2s cable. Can someone tell me what pin out is needed for U18-X26 Pro?


Since you are connecting two Gustard products no pin out selection is required. Just connect them with  your BJ cable and enjoy!


----------



## MartinWT

EMINENT said:


> So, I pulled the trigger on the U18 and Blue Jeans hdmi/i2s cable. Can someone tell me what pin out is needed for U18-X26 Pro?



Just the standard BJ cable and select 'Gustard' in the U18.


----------



## EMINENT

Highfive99 said:


> Since you are connecting two Gustard products no pin out selection is required. Just connect them with  your BJ cable and enjoy!





MartinWT said:


> Just the standard BJ cable and select 'Gustard' in the U18.


Thank you both!


----------



## milkdudd (Apr 3, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> For a few years I used to believe people that made bold statements like "No blind test in history has ever shown a detectable difference between the cheapest cables and the most expensive cables" Then I arranged with a speaker cable manufacturer to send me a set of demos to evaluate. He told me there would be a couple of weeks wait. While waiting I kept reading more opinions on the subject and convinced myself expensive cables were indeed snake oil. So I called the cable builder to tell him to cancel my demos. Before I could make that point he told me they were in the mail to me. To make a long story even longer, after listening I ordered a set from him. First I upgraded speaker cables, then interconnects, USB and power cables. Had I not "accidentally" received those demos I might still be using off the spool wire for my speakers and Amazon cables everywhere else. And yes I even believe in power conditioning. A few times I have responded to the deniers to politely say you either don't have the equipment or the ears required to hear the difference


Ironically only a few days after it was discussed here I came across the mother of all cable deniers. This is just one of many, many posts he made in response to a positive review for some Wireworld Eclipse 7 speaker cables:

"Here we go again with the wires that open up the sound stage and all sorts of other vague impressions. As I commented on the preview, Copper wire of the same AWG will all perform the same. There is no magic wire. There is no magic insulation that will improve the sound. Taking .0001% of oxygen out of the wire does nothing at room temperature. There is no special way to wrap the multi strand wire that will do anything. Oh wait, maybe if you wrap the wire around Shakti stones.... Wire is wire. If you want better sound, as I said before, buy better speakers. Add $1550 to the price of whatever speakers you own and I'll bet you'll get a heck of a lot better return on your investment. Better return, in this context, means you'll actually get something"

Following this statement there was a back and forth argument that went on seemingly forever. I've never seen anything quite like it. Here is a link to that "discussion"

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/audio-cables/wireworld-eclipse-7-speaker-cables-review/


----------



## MartinWT

The problem with these objective measurements people is that they won't accept the basic reality that scientists know too well: if it sounds different but it measures the same, you're making the wrong measurements.


----------



## JaMo

OT guys.
This thread is for the Gustard U18.

Start a new or find a present "wire thread"
/Jan


----------



## T 1000 (Apr 4, 2022)

mantraone said:


> Today I tested the U18 and the C18 master clock. Great combination for sure. Clearly the best result is the square wave. Soundstage amazing and into the back to speakers, very deep and stable, I changed the loadspeaker positionig with less "taoin" in order have also a wide orizontal dimension because it was too extended in depth. Great controll also on bass and high freq, no discussion. In general I think it could be a "final step", but need a final tuning to be 100% in my sound feeling, because looks like too perfect and need some warming taste. I don't know, probably using a different BNC cable? or... nobody have a similar impression implementig a masterclock?


First review of the C18 with positive impressions.
For now, the Double Crown and C18 are equally positive, from my POV.
Exciting


----------



## milkdudd

T 1000 said:


> First review of the C18 with positive impressions.
> For now, the Double Crown and C18 are equally positive, from my POV.
> Exciting


Being that my starting point for now is U18 with A22 dac, does the Gustard C18 seem to be the sweet spot more or less for a good balance of performance/cost? Does it make sense that all three of these devices be made by the same manufacturer, Gustard in this case? Being that the A22 doesn't have a master clock input, my only choice would be to connect C18 to the U18. What is the correct hook up method when both the DDC and the dac both have such inputs? If the clock has two outputs would you run a cable to both devices? Thanks in advance


----------



## MartinWT

milkdudd said:


> Being that my starting point for now is U18 with A22 dac, does the Gustard C18 seem to be the sweet spot more or less for a good balance of performance/cost? Does it make sense that all three of these devices be made by the same manufacturer, Gustard in this case? Being that the A22 doesn't have a master clock input, my only choice would be to connect C18 to the U18. What is the correct hook up method when both the DDC and the dac both have such inputs? If the clock has two outputs would you run a cable to both devices? Thanks in advance


Connect the clock to the U18 and the U18 to DAC via I2S cable. That way, I2S will pass through the clock to the DAC.


----------



## T 1000 (Apr 4, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> Connect the clock to the U18 and the U18 to DAC via I2S cable. That way, I2S will pass through the clock to the DAC.


It also works with AES?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

T 1000 said:


> It also works with AES?


The best way is to run a master clock into all devices in the chain.


----------



## kumar402 (Apr 4, 2022)

Well I finally got SR purple fuse all the way from UK to India. I tried my level best to keep the direction correct with S from “SR” towards the hot side and R towards the neutral side of plug. Not sure if it’s correct direction or not but there is no collapse in soundstage so I feel direction is correct.

I guess I have reached to the limit of my headphone setup.  On first listen I do feel Background instruments in mix to be louder with purple fuse. It’s interesting how a fuse of DDC can make this possible. I already had this big soundstage from my setup before changing the fuse and not sure if SR purple can add more there. I will keep listening for few more days before commenting on same. However I don’t think I would remember how U18 sounded with original fuse after 10 days.


----------



## T 1000

kumar402 said:


> Well I finally got SR purple fuse all the way from UK to India. I tried my level best to keep the direction correct with S from “SR” towards the hot side and R towards the neutral side of plug. Not sure if it’s correct direction or not but there is no collapse in soundstage so I feel direction is correct.
> 
> I guess I have reached to the limit of my headphone setup.  On first listen I do feel Background instruments in mix to be louder with purple fuse. It’s interesting how a fuse of DDC can make this possible. I already had this big soundstage from my setup before changing the fuse and not sure if SR purple can add more there. I will keep listening for few more days before commenting on same. However I don’t think I would remember how U18 sounded with original fuse after 10 days.


Yes
 from system to system and from ear to ear.
 Purple hit me with full force


----------



## kumar402

T 1000 said:


> Yes
> from system to system and from ear to ear.
> Purple hit me with full force


Yes, I have just installed the fuse and in 2 songs that I have heard the details or background instruments in the mix are popping out and hence easier to discern in the mix.


----------



## mantraone

PierPP said:


> If anyone is interested I'm selling my U18


Do not works fine with your Venus II ?


----------



## PierPP

mantraone said:


> Do not works fine with your Venus II ?



Yes it did but I am planning to buy a new dac

Loved u18 with the Venus !


----------



## milkdudd

gimmeheadroom said:


> The best way is to run a master clock into all devices in the chain.


Okay thanks. To me it seems even more of a reason to upgrade my A22 dac that doesn't have a clock input to the G26 Pro that has the clock input. A few days ago there was a 5% off sale online but I missed it. Not a big deal but 75 bucks is 75 bucks


----------



## MartinWT

T 1000 said:


> It also works with AES?


No, only I2S passes through the clock as a separate signal.


----------



## kumar402

MartinWT said:


> No, only I2S passes through the clock as a separate signal.


AES will also have the clock info but embedded with data signal and DAC has to recover it, in I2S it is carried in a separate  wire and need not be recovered but that doesn’t mean AES doesn’t carry clock info.


----------



## MartinWT

kumar402 said:


> AES will also have the clock info but embedded with data signal and DAC has to recover it, in I2S it is carried in a separate  wire and need not be recovered but that doesn’t mean AES doesn’t carry clock info.


Which is why I said quite carefully "as a separate signal".

Good as the AES input is on my X26 Pro, it is not nearly as good sounding as I2S.


----------



## kumar402

MartinWT said:


> Which is why I said quite carefully "as a separate signal".
> 
> Good as the AES input is on my X26 Pro, it is not nearly as good sounding as I2S.


My mistake…I missed that part


----------



## milkdudd (Apr 4, 2022)

Okay I'm convinced within the next month or two I will have C18/U18/X26 Pro in my system. I will buy the clock and the dac a month or two apart to ease the shock on my bank account. With that said would you guys first get the C18 to use with the U18 and A22, or get the X26 Pro to use with the U18 without the clock initially? A simpler question, will the biggest improvement come from the clock or the dac?


----------



## T 1000 (Apr 4, 2022)

Ouch
Financially, everything got complicated.
 I have to jump to a better DAC with I2S, while all the mandatory upgrades still have to be added
... and holidays in Greece are coming


----------



## MartinWT

milkdudd said:


> Okay I'm convinced within the next month or two I will have C18/U18/X26 Pro in my system. I will buy the clock and the dac a month or two apart to ease the shock on my bank account. With that said would you guys first get the C18 to use with the U18 and A22, or get the X26 Pro to use with the U18 without the clock initially? A simpler question, will the biggest improvement come from the clock or the dac?


Just my suggestion - why not get the U18 to start with, and a Blue Jeans HDMI cable.  Run the A22 in I2S mode and see how you like that.  This will give you a big bang for your money.  Then you can decide whether to go with the C18 clock next.  X26 Pro can be the final step, but you may prefer to keep the A22.


----------



## milkdudd

MartinWT said:


> Just my suggestion - why not get the U18 to start with, and a Blue Jeans HDMI cable.  Run the A22 in I2S mode and see how you like that.  This will give you a big bang for your money.  Then you can decide whether to go with the C18 clock next.  X26 Pro can be the final step, but you may prefer to keep the A22.


Actually what you suggest is exactly what I am currently doing. U18 into A22 using I2S connection with blue jeans cable. My question was whether I would see the biggest improvement by adding the C18 to what I'm using now or replacing the A22 with the X26 Pro, and waiting to get the C18. I'm starting to think getting the C18 first makes more sense


----------



## EMINENT

This better sound like sweet, hot, love in my ear holes.


----------



## milkdudd

EMINENT said:


> This better sound like sweet, hot, love in my ear holes.


If it doesn't, you need an ear hole transplant. I'd donate mine but I still use them


----------



## Thaddy

I'm assuming the X16 would pair nicely with the U18?  I currently have a Benchmark DAC3B but have been looking at newer options (a bit of upgraditis).  $1,000 seems cheap for a DDC/DAC combination and I'm trying to determine if it could be worth trying out.


----------



## Highfive99

IMHO best bang for the Gustard buck is U18+X26pro and both with good power cords and SR purple fuses. This combo when well burned in sounds simply incredible. C18 is more costly than the X26pro and while it will improve it and the U18, the cost of it renders it not quite the best money spent for its improvement over being without it. Get the best DAC and DDC then the clock when the funds allow.  I am so happy with U18+X26pro that I'm in no hurry to drop $1600USD for a C18. Maybe someday. I'd love to borrow one for a spell. Too bad not like PS Audio where you can try it for month and send it back if not happy.  

Anyways, here's a new review of the X18 + U18


----------



## EMINENT

Highfive99 said:


> Too bad not like PS Audio where you can try it for month and send it back if not happy.



You never heard of Amazon?


----------



## milkdudd (Apr 4, 2022)

Thaddy said:


> I'm assuming the X16 would pair nicely with the U18?  I currently have a Benchmark DAC3B but have been looking at newer options (a bit of upgraditis).  $1,000 seems cheap for a DDC/DAC combination and I'm trying to determine if it could be worth trying out.


Not exactly what you're looking for but it's close and will probably be worth watching. I haven't watched it yet but it might motivate you to move up to the X18 to use with the U18

https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/a-dream-team-gustard-x18-u18-review/

After I posted this I saw someone beat me to it


----------



## milkdudd

Having now watched that video review of the U18 with the X18 it seems clear at least to the reviewer that the X18 is easily worth the extra $250 over the X16. Depending what other components/headphones/speakers and cables you're using, spending more than $750 that the X18 cost might find diminishing returns for your investment. In my case my A22 dac (even before the U18) sounded far better than the Topping D90 (and for that matter the Bel Canto DAC 2.7) that I was using making the extra money well worth it


----------



## MartinWT

milkdudd said:


> I'm starting to think getting the C18 first makes more sense


Agreed, that makes more sense to me, too.


----------



## T 1000

T 1000 said:


> Ouch
> Financially, everything got complicated.
> I have to jump to a better DAC with I2S, while all the mandatory upgrades still have to be added
> ... and holidays in Greece are coming


I'm actually ungrateful
I have not reached the maximum with the current DAC, it is not yet time to change the main components


----------



## Roasty

i've had the U18 for several days now, hooked up to a Dave via aes/ebu and damn the U18 is really good.
bass hits like a mule and really sweet highs and vocals. definitely nicer than direct usb into Dave.
will use it at work for another week or so before bringing it home to try against the SU-6.


----------



## kumar402

Roasty said:


> i've had the U18 for several days now, hooked up to a Dave via aes/ebu and damn the U18 is really good.
> bass hits like a mule and really sweet highs and vocals. definitely nicer than direct usb into Dave.
> will use it at work for another week or so before bringing it home to try against the SU-6.


SU-6 was a good DDC when it was launched but U18 objectively is ahead of it and it will show in subjective results as well. 
looking forward to your view on it.


----------



## kingoftown1

kumar402 said:


> SU-6 was a good DDC when it was launched but U18 objectively is ahead of it and it will show in subjective results as well.
> looking forward to your view on it.


Interesting, so you've directly compared the two?  I've been keeping an eye out for u18 impressions, since I'm trying to figure out how it would stack up against a su6+hypsos+sr purple combo.


----------



## spw1880

Hi

I'm just considering buying u18. I have never used a ddc before. I would like to learn abit more from u18 owners. Would like to ask if anyone has matched the gustard u18 to the topping d90se. Any issues with compatibility or i2s connection? And also is the fuse change to SR purple a very big difference to the sound.

Many thanks


----------



## FOUNDERZERO

kingoftown1 said:


> Interesting, so you've directly compared the two?  I've been keeping an eye out for u18 impressions, since I'm trying to figure out how it would stack up against a su6+hypsos+sr purple combo.


I used an SU-6 for about five months prior to purchasing the U18. The latter is an upgrade in all aspects, IMO. For me, the most striking difference between the two is the clarity that the U18 provides. For example... violin strings had a sort of fuzziness to them on the SU-6, but the U18 makes them crisp and clear. Resolution and imaging improved a great deal, which brings an older and more 'laid-back' DAC like mine a little forward and more 'modern' sounding. Don't get me wrong, my upgraded SFD-2 MKII sounded great with the SU-6, but the U18 as its source truly allows it to trade punches with today's high-end DACs without breaking a sweat.


----------



## kumar402 (Apr 6, 2022)

kingoftown1 said:


> Interesting, so you've directly compared the two?  I've been keeping an eye out for u18 impressions, since I'm trying to figure out how it would stack up against a su6+hypsos+sr purple combo.


SU-6 uses Crystek clock I suppose ? and U18 uses AS338. Crystek is more analytical sounding clock as compared to AS338 which is more organic and natural sounding. Galvanic Isolation of U18 is better compared to SU-6. Also I don't want SMPS anywhere near my desktop setup, eventhough SU-6 will filter out noise but these SMPS are notorious for polluting the power line for other devices.


----------



## kumar402

——duplicate post


----------



## Researcher (Apr 6, 2022)

kumar402 said:


> SU-6 uses Crystek clock I suppose ? and U18 uses AS338. Crystek is more analytical sounding clock as compared to AS338 which is more organic and natural sounding. Galvanic Isolation of U18 is better compared to SU-6. Also I don't want SMPS anywhere near my desktop setup, eventhough SU-6 will filter out noise but these SMPS are notorious for polluting the power line for other devices.


How on earth can you know of a better implementation?

The Gustard’s test results show U18 is much noisier than SU-6. Yet I will be waiting for a proper test by @GoldenOne to buy.


----------



## kingoftown1

Thanks for your impressions @FOUNDERZERO.  Looking forward to that @Roasty comparison too


----------



## GoldenOne

Researcher said:


> How on earth can you know of a better implementation?
> 
> The Gustard’s test results show U18 is much noisier than SU-6. Yet I will be waiting for a proper test by @GoldenOne to buy.


I have one here currently.

Subjectively I think it's fine but not as good as something like DI20HE/SU6. Handy that it can do 768khz though

I'll do measurements tomorrow and see how it performs objectively.


----------



## kumar402

GoldenOne said:


> I have one here currently.
> 
> Subjectively I think it's fine but not as good as something like DI20HE/SU6. Handy that it can do 768khz though
> 
> I'll do measurements tomorrow and see how it performs objectively.


Thats interesting. I havent heard DI20HE and it can do power regeneration etc but I have compared it against SU-6 and I found Gustard to he an upgrade over it. Infact i wanted SU-6 to perform better then U-18 as it can do buffered I2S that I needed for my Sonnet and Metrum DAC. 
But ya we all look for different things in music so such contradiction can happen.


----------



## Flm09

Guys I need help. I have the Draco and someone told me to leave U18 in Gustard mode and toggle the Draco. Would it be mode 7 which will be compatible? Do we have to worry about Pin 19 on the Draco +5 volts? Thanks!


----------



## JaMo

Flm09 said:


> Guys I need help. I have the Draco and someone told me to leave U18 in Gustard mode and toggle the Draco. Would it be mode 7 which will be compatible? Do we have to worry about Pin 19 on the Draco +5 volts? Thanks!


I think it is pin 18 carrying 5V in the Draco. I think You should ask Shenzhenaudio: https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/...oise-clock-synthesizer-dsd512-pcm768khz-xu216


----------



## GoldenOne

Got the measurements done this morning.
The U18 does 'fine' but is beaten in both noise and jitter performance by most other DDCs I've tested including the Pi2AES, KTE SU2, SU6, DI20HE and Gaia

The X18 itself seems to have a slightly bottlenecked I2S input but even so, using a lower jitter DDC such as the KTE SU2 demonstrably reduces jitter in comparison to the U18

https://goldensound.audio/2022/04/07/gustard-u18-ddc-measurements/


----------



## kumar402

GoldenOne said:


> Got the measurements done this morning.
> The U18 does 'fine' but is beaten in both noise and jitter performance by most other DDCs I've tested including the Pi2AES, KTE SU2, SU6, DI20HE and Gaia
> 
> The X18 itself seems to have a slightly bottlenecked I2S input but even so, using a lower jitter DDC such as the KTE SU2 demonstrably reduces jitter in comparison to the U18
> ...


Thanks for all the effort you have put in to measure all the well known DDC.


----------



## Highfive99

GoldenOne said:


> Got the measurements done this morning.
> The U18 does 'fine' but is beaten in both noise and jitter performance by most other DDCs I've tested including the Pi2AES, KTE SU2, SU6, DI20HE and Gaia


 Thanks for the efforts. Much appreciated. But is it any surprise that units costing 2 and 3 times the price beat the U18 in numbers testing?  Are those better numbers audible in the real world? Do those units give 2 and 3 times the improvement in sound quality over the U18?  Sure U18 is bested in numbers but how does it sound in comparison to those much pricier DDC's? Without the privilege of being able to audition the other DDC's, I'd venture to say the U18 is most likely the best value for price.  All I know is that it sounds incredible with my X26pro without having to have spent on the higher end for a DDC.


----------



## GoldenOne

Highfive99 said:


> Thanks for the efforts. Much appreciated. But is it any surprise that units costing 2 and 3 times the price beat the U18 in numbers testing?  Are those better numbers audible in the real world? Do those units give 2 and 3 times the improvement in sound quality over the U18?  Sure U18 is bested in numbers but how does it sound in comparison to those much pricier DDC's? Without the privilege of being able to audition the other DDC's, I'd venture to say the U18 is most likely the best value for price.  All I know is that it sounds incredible with my X26pro without having to have spent on the higher end for a DDC.


It's not just much pricier DDCs.
Cheaper products like the Pi2AES beat it too

The U18 is a good product. I'm not at all saying it's bad, it isn't.


----------



## kumar402

I have Pi2AES that I can compare with U18. But can only do it on Sunday or later. Pi2AES will be powered by Uptone Ultracaps 1.2 and pi board with Allo Shanti.


----------



## GoldenOne

kumar402 said:


> I have Pi2AES that I can compare with U18. But can only do it on Sunday or later. Pi2AES will be powered by Uptone Ultracaps 1.2 and pi board with Allo Shanti.


One thing that's worth doing with the pi2aes if you're able to is connecting a 5v PSU directly to the 5v pins on the board instead of connecting a 24v supply to the DC input.

This bypasses the onboard switcher and demonstrably improves performance


----------



## T 1000 (Apr 7, 2022)

GoldenOne said:


> Got the measurements done this morning.
> The U18 does 'fine' but is beaten in both noise and jitter performance by most other DDCs I've tested including the Pi2AES, KTE SU2, SU6, DI20HE and Gaia
> 
> The X18 itself seems to have a slightly bottlenecked I2S input but even so, using a lower jitter DDC such as the KTE SU2 demonstrably reduces jitter in comparison to the U18
> ...


Thanks for the review.
I appreciate showing flaws, more than constant praise


----------



## mantraone

GoldenOne said:


> One thing that's worth doing with the pi2aes if you're able to is connecting a 5v PSU directly to the 5v pins on the board instead of connecting a 24v supply to the DC input.
> 
> This bypasses the onboard switcher and demonstrably improves performance



wich is the best DCC with Rockna Wavelight via I2s interface? Did you tested the U18? How do you think about this combination?


----------



## GoldenOne

mantraone said:


> wich is the best DCC with Rockna Wavelight via I2s interface? Did you tested the U18? How do you think about this combination?


Have a look at this post: https://www.head-fi.org/posts/16904300/

I've posted all the DDCs I've tested there including prices


----------



## Highfive99

GoldenOne said:


> It's not just much pricier DDCs.
> Cheaper products like the Pi2AES beat it too
> 
> The U18 is a good product. I'm not at all saying it's bad, it isn't.


What I found interesting is on the website that you credit for the pic of the U18 internals, there's a user reviewer who states he likes the U18 more than some of the other units you tested and he has owned with better numbers. I think reviews/comparisons like yours should be a combination of objective numbers testing and subjective listening comparisons.  I think too many people base product like/dislike decisions based on numbers alone.  Personally I think the U18 would be hard to beat in terms sound quality per cost. Thanks again for the time spent on this. 2 thumbs up!


----------



## Researcher

Highfive99 said:


> What I found interesting is on the website that you credit for the pic of the U18 internals, there's a user reviewer who states he likes the U18 more than some of the other units you tested and he has owned with better numbers. I think reviews/comparisons like yours should be a combination of objective numbers testing and subjective listening comparisons.  I think too many people base product like/dislike decisions based on numbers alone.  Personally I think the U18 would be hard to beat in terms sound quality per cost. Thanks again for the time spent on this. 2 thumbs up!


What a proper DDC does is the reduction of noise and jitter. It is clearly seen through measurements that U18 fails at both.


----------



## GoldenOne (Apr 8, 2022)

Highfive99 said:


> What I found interesting is on the website that you credit for the pic of the U18 internals, there's a user reviewer who states he likes the U18 more than some of the other units you tested and he has owned with better numbers. I think reviews/comparisons like yours should be a combination of objective numbers testing and subjective listening comparisons.  I think too many people base product like/dislike decisions based on numbers alone.  Personally I think the U18 would be hard to beat in terms sound quality per cost. Thanks again for the time spent on this. 2 thumbs up!


I deliberately keep my objective testing and subjective thoughts separate, as I don't want people to think that I'm Amir 2.0 or something where higher number always is better.
I feel measurements are a way to explain trends or subjective findings, not a way to give a definitive better/worse ranking.

I'll sometimes put a bit of subjective description into objective testing if I think something is explicitly relevant to or could explain a subjective characteristic, but other than that I try to keep it as separate as I can.
Subjective reviews are posted either in video form on https://youtube.com/goldensound or in a separate website post.

I did post in a couple places and in discord etc about my subjective findings with the U18. It seemed to make things a little bit more crystalline/incisive but also actually hurt precision of imaging a bit.
I can totally see why people like it, but personally I felt other DDCs like a Singxer SU6 did a better job without the drawbacks.


In regards to objective 'rankings', generally I feel there are simply too many factors to consider and there is no single number that can determine the overall quality of a product. If that were the case Tube amps wouldn't exist.
This is more the case with DACs/Amps where there are countless factors to consider.

For example, the Gustard X18 outperforms the Benchmark DAC3B in THD+N/SINAD pretty comfortably. But then it falls on its face in the presence of intersample overs and that causes massive distortion, whereas the DAC3B handles them perfectly. So who is to say whether that extra few dB of SINAD is worth that drawback, or whether the differences in say Jitter performance, IMD, oversampling filters etc are more/less/equally important?

With DDCs though it's (a bit) less the case. They aren't analog devices, and so there are only really three factors to consider:

- Data integrity (so far I've not encountered a DDC that wasn't bitperfect other than the MScaler which ofc changes the data as it is an upsampling device)
- Noise
- Jitter

Level vs spectrum of both noise and jitter is a different debate and two DDCs with similar RMS jitter but very different structures can still sound different, but still, for the most part a DDC will either have overall higher or lower jitter than another.


(Also, there's of course always the issue of expectation bias. If a DDC is a big, expensive behemoth like the DI20HE, people will EXPECT and be more likely to hear a greater improvement compared to a smaller, less expensive but equally or better performing one like an SU6.
Realistically the differences with DDCs are usually very minimal, more minimal than DACs, and so expectation bias and placebo are bigger concerns.)


----------



## T 1000

For me, the U18 has made a shift in sound quality and it’s cheap.
I don't want to falsely support the Device, but the fact that there are users who like the sound more than the SU6 shows that there are other factors at play.
As far as I'm concerned, GD DI 20-HE with its regenerative power supply is attractive to me


----------



## kumar402 (Apr 8, 2022)

Researcher said:


> What a proper DDC does is the reduction of noise and jitter. It is clearly seen through measurements that U18 fails at both.


Well those numbers are down compared to other products but are still below something that can make significant audible difference

I have Pi2AES/ Digione Signature and U18 and since I started using U18, I haven’t heard any degradation in SQ. In fact I liked it a lot and ended up putting purple fuse in it and since getting it I haven’t used other DDCs I have and I have bought all of them with my own money so it’s not like I will gain something out of these claims.


----------



## JaMo

@GoldenOne :
Thanks for the measurements and the work done. It's much appreciated. I wonder if You have the possibility to add a good master clock to the DDC's. The reason I ask is that in my setup I get "a little better than average" with Gustard U18 I2s on its own internal XO's (Accusilicon AS338) but a much better result (Listerning wise) with my Mutec REF10 SE120 producing the clock pulse. Another thing I spotted on the U18 is the fact that it is equipped with a 75Ohm BNC connector input but a 50 Ohm resistor (R6). I removed and replaced the 50 Ohm resistor and soldered in a pretty exact 75 Ohm resistor. I have both 50 and 75 Ohm outputs on the REF10  BNC and I use very good true 75 Ohm BNC cable. When I was at it inside the box I also added a Black Gate Cap after the rectifier in parallell with the Nichicon. That said the difference is more than night -day on internal/external XO modes. It should be very interesting to read of Your findings if it could be tested at some point. 

Measurements are good but I trust my ears and perception, emotions listening to the music and for me the U18 performs great on EXT XO setting. Way above its price. I think it is a bargain. By the way.. I also use the DI20HE I2S and the MC3+USB AES/EBU (on LPS) both (all) on EXT XO (REF10 SE120) As always the cables has to be of high quality and well paired to the signal producing gears. I have put in a lot of work and testing in this but I am not using any extreme priced cables. Just good ones. I use power filter -70 dB on the DDC's, the REF 10, -50 dB's on dacs and Preamp
Values from me: All used with EXT XO
Audio-gd DI20HE I2S - 10/10
MUTEC MC3+USB      - 9,5/10
Gustard U18 I2S         - 9.5/10

/Jan


----------



## MartinWT

Don't forget the overall connectivity of the U18 and how it will typically be used in real life.

I switched from a highly modified (by Coherent) Mutec MC-3+ USB after comparison with the U18.  I started off comparing them in AES mode, as that is the best interface I could use with the Mutec.  In AES with internal clock, the U18 sounded no better than the Mutec, but this alone seemed promising.  Once I added my external AfterDark Emperor Triple Crown clock, it had already pulled ahead.  Switching to I2S with a Blue Jeans HDMI cable was a complete revelation.  It wasn't close, it was a staggering difference in the presentation of the music.

So, using the Mutec in its best configuration versus the U18 in its best configuration was a no-contest.  In view of the Mutec's higher price and its modified form, the U18 gave me a step-change improvement at a lower price than I got back on trading the Mutec in.  Measurements, in my case, were immaterial to my decision.


----------



## T 1000

JaMo said:


> @GoldenOne :
> Thanks for the measurements and the work done. It's much appreciated. I wonder if You have the possibility to add a good master clock to the DDC's. The reason I ask is that in my setup I get "a little better than average" with Gustard U18 I2s on its own internal XO's (Accusilicon AS338) but a much better result (Listerning wise) with my Mutec REF10 SE120 producing the clock pulse. Another thing I spotted on the U18 is the fact that it is equipped with a 75Ohm BNC connector input but a 50 Ohm resistor (R6). I removed and replaced the 50 Ohm resistor and soldered in a pretty exact 75 Ohm resistor. I have both 50 and 75 Ohm outputs on the REF10  BNC and I use very good true 75 Ohm BNC cable. When I was at it inside the box I also added a Black Gate Cap after the rectifier in parallell with the Nichicon. That said the difference is more than night -day on internal/external XO modes. It should be very interesting to read of Your findings if it could be tested at some point.
> 
> Measurements are good but I trust my ears and perception, emotions listening to the music and for me the U18 performs great on EXT XO setting. Way above its price. I think it is a bargain. By the way.. I also use the DI20HE I2S and the MC3+USB AES/EBU (on LPS) both (all) on EXT XO (REF10 SE120) As always the cables has to be of high quality and well paired to the signal producing gears. I have put in a lot of work and testing in this but I am not using any extreme priced cables. Just good ones. I use power filter -70 dB on the DDC's, the REF 10, -50 dB's on dacs and Preamp
> ...


If I understood correctly, without intervention on U18, it is better to use BNC 50 ohms?


----------



## MartinWT

The AfterDark clock is a sinewave which makes impedance matching over short lengths irrelevant, especially with the excellent 30cm Belden 4694R double-shielded clock cable.  I believe this is a factor in the U18's excellent performance, especially with the AD's -142dB @10Hz noise performance.


----------



## JaMo

Yes, It is sold as a 50 Ohm EXT XO input gear. But I have a hard time to accept a 75 Ohm connector installed on it. I don't understand why Gustard do it. It is just wrong. And for a square wave signal it can ruin the time pulse signals's shape and therefore introduce jitter. I don't hesitate to correct these things even if I know it will ruin the warranty. I have the REF 10 and it produces a very clean square wave so it wasn't much to argue about.. 
If You are using 50 Ohm sine wave it should be fine as it comes but with Square wave, I recommend my treat. How the K2 synthesizer works with a slightly damaged signal, I don't know but I took the safe route here. I am very pleased with how the U18 performs. A great buy. I am waiting for my second one. But that one will be untouched, it will be used with a 50 Ohm sine wave EXT XO.
/Jan


----------



## GoldenOne (Apr 8, 2022)

JaMo said:


> Thanks for the measurements and the work done. It's much appreciated. I wonder if You have the possibility to add a good master clock to the DDC's. The reason I ask is that in my setup I get "a little better than average" with Gustard U18 I2s on its own internal XO's (Accusilicon AS338) but a much better result (Listerning wise) with my Mutec REF10 SE120 producing the clock pulse.


A 10mhz clock is something I'd definitely like to get in to test various devices with. Unfortunately I don't know anyone personally whom I could borrow from and am not in a position to be able to afford one myself. So definitely will if the opportunity arises, but I don't know when that might be.

10mhz clocks are something that's likely to vary from device to device though for a few reasons.

Firstly, a LOT of devices won't actually run from the 10mhz clock when in use. They simply adjust their own clock speed slightly to prevent long term clock drift.
And in this situation you'll either get the same jitter performance (cause you're still using your DAC/DDCs own clocks) or potentially slightly worse due to the additional processes required to make this work.

In the situation of devices like the gustard u18 though, where the k2 apparently synthesizes the new clock signal directly from the 10mhz input, then there is much larger potential for the external clock to make a difference. But also now you have additional challenges as you're using a clock that cannot be cleanly divided to 48khz/44.1khz so it'd be interesting to see how it affects performance.

10mhz clocks were intended for use particularly in professional setups where you may have dozens of DACs, ADCs, and digital processors which all need to be aligned and not drift in relation to eachother.
This is particularly important for video where you need audio to be aligned exactly with frame capture.
They weren't ever really intended to provide a jitter performance benefit. But have made their way into the high end audio market regardless. Whether this is valid or not I honestly have no idea but would be keen to try some.




JaMo said:


> Another thing I spotted on the U18 is the fact that it is equipped with a 75Ohm BNC connector input but a 50 Ohm resistor (R6). I removed and replaced the 50 Ohm resistor and soldered in a pretty exact 75 Ohm resistor. I have both 50 and 75 Ohm outputs on the REF10 BNC and I use very good true 75 Ohm BNC cable.


I'm on a train currently so can't look at the PCB, but be aware when you see '75 ohm' when referring to spdif/bnc/coax cables and connectors, that doesn't actually mean 75 ohm DC resistance. In fact a typical 75 ohm bnc cable should have close to 0 ohm DC resistance.

Characteristic impedance is given by the formula Sqrt(L/C).
For example I've got some Wave Storm BNC cables at home at the moment. The parallel (open) capacitance is 71pF and the series (shorted) inductance is 0.4uH.






So they have a characteristic impedance of 75 ohm even though just testing with a multimeter they show near 0ohm DC resistance.

It's possible that 50ohm resistor is not related to the characteristic impedance on the connection. I'd imagine (or at least very much HOPE) that they'd designed it with a proper 75ohm termination 

EDIT: sorry was thinking of the spdif connection. Just realised you were talking about the 10mhz clock which would indeed be 50ohm 
God I need a coffee


----------



## T 1000 (Apr 8, 2022)

I am also interested , why despite the obvious advantages of I2S, this type of connection is not generally accepted in all DACs.


----------



## milkdudd

Researcher said:


> What a proper DDC does is the reduction of noise and jitter. It is clearly seen through measurements that U18 fails at both.


Sorry if this is a dumb question but is there a chance this is where the upgraded fuses help?


----------



## JaMo

milkdudd said:


> Sorry if this is a dumb question but is there a chance this is where the upgraded fuses help?


I don't think You should be afraid at all of the measurements on their own. The fuses are a balancing part equal important as the cables choices to aim for the final result.

A perfect measured gear is very seldom funny to listen to for longer periods of time. They will probably leave You with a listening fatigue. A few guys here will probably comment or argue/differ on this. Trust Your ears. If You find it good even after a time of listening.. It is good! Whatever the measurements says.

Were Your head high and decide for Yourself.. 

I have tried a few solid silver based fuses and they leave me too soft and too diffused sound wise. I am still on original fuses and they works fine for me. 

I am using Gustard HDMI cable I2S between U18-X26pro, 
The Di20HE to the R7HE Mk2 with the silver based HDMI cable. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...1009.64;-1;-1@salePrice;SEK;search-mainSearch

With the modded MC3+USB I use the DH Labs Silver Sonic D-110 with XLR's
/Jan
​


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Apr 8, 2022)

Hello,
I had no Idea the connector on my U18 is 75 Ohm … I’m currently using Gustard C2  (50 Ohm BNC connectors) Clock cable to AD Double Crown Clock (50 Ohm Sine wave) and it seems to be better than the stock clock cable.

I just dbl checked Gustard C18 clock has the same 75 Ohm connectors (2 sq and 2 sine wave) . I guess b/c U 18 was made to use with C18 clock they just decided to use 75 Ohm Connectors with 50 Ohm "Chain"…

A lot of great info on this thread . Thank you all.. Much appreciated !


----------



## GoldenOne

Crypt Keeper said:


> Hello,
> I had no Idea the connector on my U18 is 75 Ohm … I’m currently using Gustard C2 ( $167) Clock cable to AD Double Crown Clock (50 Ohm Sine wave) and it seems to be better than the stock clock cable.
> 
> I just dbl checked Gustard C18 clock has the same 75 Ohm connectors (2 sq and 2 sine wave) . I guess b/c U 18 was made to use with C18 clock they just decided to use 75 Ohm …
> ...


The connector will be 50 ohm.
Apologies. I was thinking of bnc spdif inputs which are usually 75 ohm. Not clock inputs which are usually 50 ohm. Though it'll depend on the specific device


----------



## tamahome77 (Apr 9, 2022)

JaMo said:


> @GoldenOne :
> Thanks for the measurements and the work done. It's much appreciated. I wonder if You have the possibility to add a good master clock to the DDC's. The reason I ask is that in my setup I get "a little better than average" with Gustard U18 I2s on its own internal XO's (Accusilicon AS338) but a much better result (Listerning wise) with my Mutec REF10 SE120 producing the clock pulse. Another thing I spotted on the U18 is the fact that it is equipped with a 75Ohm BNC connector input but a 50 Ohm resistor (R6). I removed and replaced the 50 Ohm resistor and soldered in a pretty exact 75 Ohm resistor. I have both 50 and 75 Ohm outputs on the REF10  BNC and I use very good true 75 Ohm BNC cable. When I was at it inside the box I also added a Black Gate Cap after the rectifier in parallell with the Nichicon. That said the difference is more than night -day on internal/external XO modes. It should be very interesting to read of Your findings if it could be tested at some point.
> 
> Measurements are good but I trust my ears and perception, emotions listening to the music and for me the U18 performs great on EXT XO setting. Way above its price. I think it is a bargain. By the way.. I also use the DI20HE I2S and the MC3+USB AES/EBU (on LPS) both (all) on EXT XO (REF10 SE120) As always the cables has to be of high quality and well paired to the signal producing gears. I have put in a lot of work and testing in this but I am not using any extreme priced cables. Just good ones. I use power filter -70 dB on the DDC's, the REF 10, -50 dB's on dacs and Preamp
> ...


@JaMo Thank you for the impressions on adding an external clock to your DCCs.  It's very helpful!  I'm also very interested in adding an external clock in the future. I've heard a user over at CAM, who had added the Mutec SE120 to their two Mutec MC3+ USB ddc units connected in series and the sound quality improvements for that individual were massive.  He mentioned it was similar to jumping from a low end dac to a high end dac.  He can't stress enough of how important it is to improve one's system clock.  According to your ratings, the DI20HE seems to benefit the most from the Mutec SE120? Just curious, were you using usb or coax input on your DI20HE?  Can you expand a little on the night and day difference of adding the Mutec SE120 to the ddc, especially the Di20HE?  Do you feel there's improvement in timing of music, clarity, imaging, air, & soundstage?


----------



## JaMo (Apr 9, 2022)

tamahome77 said:


> @JaMo Thank you for the impressions on adding an external clock to your DCCs.  It's very helpful!  I'm also very interested in adding an external clock in the future. I've heard a user over at CAM, who had added the Mutec SE120 to their two Mutec MC3+ USB ddc units connected in series and the sound quality improvements for that individual were massive.  He mentioned it was similar to jumping from a low end dac to a high end dac.  He can't stress enough of how important it is to improve one's system clock.  According to your ratings, the DI20HE seems to benefit the most from the Mutec SE120? Just curious, were you using usb or coax input on your DI20HE?  Can you expand a little on the night and day difference of adding the Mutec SE120 to the ddc, especially the Di20HE?  Do you feel there's improvement in timing of music, clarity, imaging, air, & soundstage?


Hi, my values at the end of my writing are how I think they perform compared to each other and to my preferences (of course..)
They all benefit very much on adding the REF10 as a master clock. The MC3+USB uses a switched PSU when You buy it and I removed that instantly and added an Ultra Silent LPS with a "buffer cap-compound" inside it between +5V and Gnd. That made it smoother but like in them all, (DI20HE, U18, MC3+USB) the clarity and laid back, completely effortless presentation, appears when You add the Master clock. You will get a soundscape where You can spot all the details with ease. The scene will be wider, deeper and higher and the precision, in good recordings, where the instruments are located will also be easy to spot. The layering leaves no secrets as well. The presentation well be "calmer and clearer". If You are to buy one go as high as You can afford (AfterDark have good ones for decent money). I think a high quality master clock is a wise investment if You have ambitions to go towards higher end sound reproduction. More and more digital gears will be equipped with master clock inputs. The legacy is from the studio area, where Pro recording equipment have been using them a long time. For us HiFi nerds it is a home run use them.. But You have to go for the better XO's from let say: -116 dB/1Hz and lower, to get the real "performnce lift"

What I have been saying is that the U18 answers very well on the added master clock and with it, it punches well over its pricetag.

The DI20 is on a true high end level and is as Kingwa usually does things, he overengineers without any compromises. I salut him for that. The DI20HE is without any doubt, the best. But I think it is pretty astonishing that the U18 does "9.5" for me. The MC3+USB is also good after my treats. I can without any hesitation recommend the DI20HE and the U18.

Save up to a good master clock.
/Jan


----------



## 801evan

Fortunately measurements has zero correlation to sound quality and performance. Many have posted how the u18 and the di20he is the top two performers.


----------



## tamahome77

@JaMo   Thank you very much for expanding your impressions in describing in detail the benefits of adding an external clock.  It's important to know which areas of sound quality the clock would improve as the higher end ones are pretty expensive. Appreciate the invaluable info and recommendations provided.  This will surely help me decide which clock to get in order to attain worthwhile sound improvement.


----------



## Researcher

All guys here say that measurements do not influence overall sound quality. I wholeheartedly accept this statement for 'digital-analogue products' up to a point. However, this is a digital-to-digital converter. The job of it is simply 'jitter' and 'electrical noise', both of which can be measured. If a DDC fails at those, it should not be recommended. This is because it does not do what is intended to be. U18 does not fail at all but does not compete well with many DDCs out there. No buy from me


----------



## MartinWT

Researcher said:


> All guys here say that measurements do not influence overall sound quality.



Not me. I say we don't measure the right things that correlate with sound quality. 

Shame as the U18 is a great product for sound quality.


----------



## kumar402

Researcher said:


> All guys here say that measurements do not influence overall sound quality. I wholeheartedly accept this statement for 'digital-analogue products' up to a point. However, this is a digital-to-digital converter. The job of it is simply 'jitter' and 'electrical noise', both of which can be measured. If a DDC fails at those, it should not be recommended. This is because it does not do what is intended to be. U18 does not fail at all but does not compete well with many DDCs out there. No buy from me


What according to you is correct jitter and noise value that DDC should at least have ? The absolute value that you see for U18 is it below that recommended value ?
When one amp  has SNR of 120 and one has 105 does it mean 105 is bad or both are good as above certain value it doesn’t matter


----------



## Researcher

kumar402 said:


> What according to you is correct jitter and noise value that DDC should at least have ? The absolute value that you see for U18 is it below that recommended value ?
> When one amp  has SNR of 120 and one has 105 does it mean 105 is bad or both are good as above certain value it doesn’t matter


Amp is analogue. I talked about DDCs which are all about digital. Let's consider; A DDC has a jitter of around 500ps while another one has a jitter of 75ps. This matters, I believe. Moreover,  if You can buy a better DDC for less, or a much better nearly-noise-free DDC for a couple of 100 USD more. I do not think U18 deserves half a thousand USD. On the other hand, It appears that using a single iPhone to DAC as a streamer makes much less electrical noise to the circuit.


----------



## MartinWT

You are not understanding the total jitter and phase noise along the digital chain. You cannot take the U18's figures in isolation: an external clock, grounding boxes and low noise power supplies make a great deal of difference.


----------



## ihyan2

I am expecting delivery of the u18
Plan to use it after the Lumin u1 mini ( usb) and then I2S out to Rockna wavedream.

Which pin out settings can be used for Rockna?

Thanks


----------



## Researcher

MartinWT said:


> You are not understanding the total jitter and phase noise along the digital chain. You cannot take the U18's figures in isolation: an external clock, grounding boxes and low noise power supplies make a great deal of difference.


What I see is u are appeared to fully grasp the meaning of the graphs.  Lol. Good luck with this useless product


----------



## kumar402 (Apr 9, 2022)

U18 works so well with Sonnet DAC. I like it a lot and it has replaced both Pi2AES and Digione signature to secondary setup for time being.


----------



## JaMo

@Researcher 
Don't. Just don't be a troll. This is an "Is there a God" discussion. Go by your numbers and be happy with that. For us who has been around for a while and have tested and started to understand more of these secrets and the fact that measurements are good for theoretic proof but we the humans are more complex than this for HiFi music reproduction. There is more to it. The best performing gears out there doesn't measure ultra good. Because they are tuned for best sound and not for best measurements. If You will be seriously investigating these things over the years, I shouldn't surprised if You had soften up a bit about this. As @MartinWT wrote: "I say we don't measure the right things that correlate with sound quality.". I find this true where I stand today after many years of investigating these "secrets". 

So please don't criticize other people with other insights than Yours. Be happy pass on the very good U18 and get an excellent spec but probably a bit dull and fatiguing DDC instead. I wish You good luck with Your journey.
/Jan


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## kumar402 (Apr 9, 2022)

@Researcher one of the reason I posted above pic is just to show I own 3 DDC right now and also had SU-6 with me for few days. I have Pi2AES since start of 2019 well before it got popular and Digione signature since 2018. Pi2AES is a wonderful product and has buffered I2S for my Metrum DAC.I was using it non stop for 3 years now and will continue using it but when I put U18 in my chain the first thing that I noticed was tactility in bass and wider soundstage. I mean I didn’t A-Bed but it was apparent on first listen itself. Im not sure if 400 vs 70 ps makes any difference but I had positive result in my subjective test out of 400ps jitter


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## 801evan

kumar402 said:


> @Researcher one of the reason I posted above pic is just to show I own 3 DDC right now and also had SU-6 with me for few days. I have Pi2AES since start of 2019 well before it got popular and Digione signature since 2018. Pi2AES is a wonderful product and has buffered I2S for my Metrum DAC.I was using it non stop for 3 years now and will continue using it and when I put U18 in my chain the first thing that I noticed was tactility in bass and wider soundstage. I mean I didn’t A-B but it was apparent on first listen itself. Im not sure if 400 vs 70 ps makes any difference but I had positive result in my subjective test out of 400ps jitter


Very helpful post. Yea, like the Xspdif2 was measured so well by ASR but its own of the worst ddc for me. I even powered it with hdplex + lps1.2


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## JaMo

A thing not mentioned here so far, I think, is the importance of the burn in process. To get fully stabilized internal oscillators You got to have a full two weeks of power on (~340hrs). To get the fully burned in/stabilized electronics, You need 6 to 8 weeks of playing music 24/7 (~1000-1350 hrs).
For many of us, this is sort of normal or standard for digital gears. An extreme example in this aspect is Audio-gd's analog amps, both pre- and poweramps. Half a year is needed (!) to get them to sing out fully. The burn in period is a kind of a "roller coaster" with good days and bad days when You can wonder if this was a good idea buying this lousy bad sounding box and one day, suddenly there is happiness. Beautiful music flowing and wide smile on Your face. You can finally thank Yourself for being patient, waiting for this WOW!-moment. A very rewarding feeling.

To wrap up. In analog gears I doubt it is possible to measure these differences between the "before" and "after" finished burnin process. For digital gears I am sure it is possible find differences in the timing. In digital gears it is in this time domain the most important stabilizing is done. But this includes FPGA/CPLD's, PSU parts, capacitors and buffers (amps), biased material from factory normalizing..

To wrap this up. Never underestimate the need for a full burn in process of serious gears. It is vital for the full function and to unleash the full potential of the gear. Good/serious gear designers often add these recommendations with the delivery but You will get far with these "thumb rules" above in this post.

This is the Gustard U18's thread so I add that these recommendation is also valid for this very nice DDC, the Gustard U18.
Thanks.
/Jan


----------



## Researcher

801evan said:


> Very helpful post. Yea, like the Xspdif2 was measured so well by ASR but its own of the worst ddc for me. I even powered it with hdplex + lps1.2


Neither did Xspdif measure well, nor it was recommended at ASR.


----------



## kumar402

Researcher said:


> Neither did Xspdif measure well, nor it was recommended at ASR.


Well if you really wanna quote ASR then you shouldn’t venture into DDC and just use USB from laptop my friend and be done with. Here is something for you from ASR 
Finally, please note that we are seriously "measurebating here." I have to zoom in so much into performance of these signals that breathing on them may change things. So do not worry about any audibility issues here. Use USB if that comes with your DAC and be done with it. Don't string all these things together thinking you are doing something useful.


----------



## JaMo

ASR is not relevant or even near a role model representative for any objective or near truth HiFi performance writings. They are a community with their own, not necessarily a primarily a HiFi, agenda. Often they shoot down good techniques and praises cheap ones. Some times I wonder if they are in music listening at all... ?! Or just to miscredit the competition..  for earning money..

Choose for Yourself


----------



## Flm09

Wow! Adding U18 DDC makes things more analog sounding. Don't notice a blacker background though! This is just usb to DDC and coax out to Draco. Haven't tried I2S yet!


----------



## Researcher

Guyz please get slow! I know u had already invested in it. 

Someone here claimed Xspdif is well measured on ASR. I just highlighted the truth.


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Apr 9, 2022)

...


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Apr 9, 2022)

Researcher said:


> Guyz please get slow! I know u had already invested in it.
> 
> Someone here claimed Xspdif is well measured on ASR. I just highlighted the truth.


You should try U 18 with good clock, nice PW cable and SR Purple fuse... My unit is also connected to power regenerator and for $ 450 it's just awesome ...


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## kumar402 (Apr 9, 2022)

Researcher said:


> Guyz please get slow! I know u had already invested in it.
> 
> Someone here claimed Xspdif is well measured on ASR. I just highlighted the truth.


It’s just a $450 device and not an “investment “ for anyone. Ppl here pay $450 for cable for chi-fi headphone. No one is defending it because we have “invested” in it but because it genuinely works well and if some ps jitter makes difference to whatever DAC you own then get something with less ps jitter.
Ppl in head-fi have invested in far worse and expensive items and have called out their shortcomings as and when needed. There are some long time member here who don’t think like I have “ invested” on it so let’s praise it.


----------



## 801evan

Nothing is consistent with what is measured and real life usage. External psu is better than usb power on the Xspdif2 but measurement say otherwise. Topping d10 sounds better than the Xspdif2 but is noisier. While the d20 isn't perfect as it has some edge in the sound, it is blacker and less hazy.

Hard to trust this u18 measurement as it's the usual negging  and that Wildism products are better than others. Just search for "su6"  here and most people say the u18 is better and that's more credible.


----------



## T 1000

I do not dispute the importance of measurements, but it is obvious that measurements cannot be an indicator of how something sounds.
This is shown in the example of U18, it measures worse but sounds better.
Recently, a well-known reviewer provided evidence based on measurements that cables (all) do not make any difference in sound, of course, all supported by graphical representations of different measurements.
I believe that engineers, when listening to what they have designed, resort to adjustments (better measurements are not always better) in order to achieve a better final hearing result.
Of course this is just my guess


----------



## MartinWT

The two 'investments' that have been long standing in my system are my Usher speakers (now 14 years old) and my Belles power amp.

All other equipment stays around for as long as it's best within my buying power.  The Sonore UltraRendu, Gustard X26 Pro and (newest) Gustard U18 show every sign of being long-term 'keepers'.  That doesn't mean they'll last forever, but it's always the music that comes first.


----------



## soumya.banerjee

@GoldenOne 
J-Test on APX can be tricky. I recall stereophile's J-Test measurements for Sonnet Morpheus being less than ideal and was called out by Cees
https://www.stereophile.com/content/sonnet-morpheus-da-processor-manufacturers-comment

I didn't expect this much deviation from Gustard's own published measurements. Assuming the unit you evaluated wasn't bad, can you tally your J-Test parameters with Gustard's depicted here in this pic.


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## kumar402 (Apr 10, 2022)

soumya.banerjee said:


> @GoldenOne
> J-Test on APX can be tricky. I recall stereophile's J-Test measurements for Sonnet Morpheus being less than ideal and was called out by Cees
> https://www.stereophile.com/content/sonnet-morpheus-da-processor-manufacturers-comment
> 
> I didn't expect this much deviation from Gustard's own published measurements. Assuming the unit you evaluated wasn't bad, can you tally your J-Test parameters with Gustard's depicted here in this pic.


So as per Cees, if any digital product has “steep digital filter” then these J-test are ok but for product that doesn’t have “Steep Digital filter “ the results are not true indicative of real life jitter. Now I took 2 example
1 . Gustard U18 - this uses below for signal processing
CLPO for signal processing, the isolated IIS signal is reshaped to remove the jitter introduced by the isolator.
2. Singxer SU-6 - “FPGA-based source synchronization technology re-shaping the isolated I2S signal”

Does it mean SU-6 may be using steep digital filter and U18 not and hence J-test may not be correct for U18? Can someone with technical know how help me understand?


----------



## soumya.banerjee

kumar402 said:


> So as per Cees, if any digital product has “steep digital filter” then these J-test are ok but for product that doesn’t have “Steep Digital filter “ the results are not true indicative of real life jitter. Now I took 2 example
> 1 . Gustard U18 - this uses below for signal processing
> CLPO for signal processing, the isolated IIS signal is reshaped to remove the jitter introduced by the isolator.
> 2. Singxer SU-6 - “FPGA-based source synchronization technology re-shaping the isolated I2S signal”
> ...


Generally we talk of filters in context of ADCs (anti-aliasing) or DACs (re-construction) which is what Cees was pointing out.
That said, APx itself has band-pass or notch filters and different windowing + averaging parameters. I am merely curious if any of these affect J-Test drastically.

Also it will be interesting to see if there is a difference in J-Test measurements when measured via a DAC fed by by the DDC.
Again, this is all purely academic ; time-domain measurements are very very tricky and never as straight forward as frequency domain measurements. 
That said, I really like how U-18 sounds - more so with higher sampling rates / up-sampling via IIS.

I don't know if Gustard engage here at head-fi, but it makes sense to check with them to determine the disparity between the published and GoldenOne's measurements.


----------



## GoldenOne (Apr 10, 2022)

soumya.banerjee said:


> J-Test on APX can be tricky. I recall stereophile's J-Test measurements for Sonnet Morpheus being less than ideal and was called out by Cees
> https://www.stereophile.com/content/sonnet-morpheus-da-processor-manufacturers-comment


Sonnet's comment about the J-Test here is completely valid, and you can see it demonstrated on other DACs. The J-Test requires a steep filter to be valid, and so doing it on a NOS dac for example will seem to show very poor jitter even if that isn't the case.

On the Rockna wavedream as an example from a different manufacturer:

J-Test in NOS/'Filter Off':




But with steep filter ('Linear'):




However this is for a J-Test, which is not the test I did on the U18 (or other DDCs).
The J-Test is used to test jitter at the analog output of a DAC, but with a DDC you can simply measure the jitter directly on the digital connection's clock signal itself, which is what my DDC measurements show. And this is not susceptible to the same issue as it is not dependent on reconstruction at all.


soumya.banerjee said:


> I didn't expect this much deviation from Gustard's own published measurements. Assuming the unit you evaluated wasn't bad, can you tally your J-Test parameters with Gustard's depicted here in this pic.



There's a few odd things about Gustard's own published measurements.

1) Not really sure why they're posting a THD+N test. This is a digital device, it's either bitperfect or not. Harmonic distortion could be added in DSP but assuming a DDC is bit-perfect a THD+N test is irrelevant. (The U18 is bit perfect, I've not encountered any DDC which wasn't so far other than the Chord MScaler which is of course intended to alter/upsample audio passed through it)

2) If I use exactly the same settings as they've chosen and play real music through the device (note that they do not show what waveform they were playing), I get the following:




Very very similar so there doesn't seem to be any discrepancy.
The RMS Jitter value though has no context for settings so I can't repeat it.

But, in the full screenshot they do show, there are a couple things to note about how they've configured things:

- They have their filters configured to the 'audible range' between 50hz and 22khz, which is not really what you should be looking at for jitter.
Jitter does not create a 1:1 result, ie: jitter at 1khz does not mean that you'll have unwanted noise at 1khz on the output, it means you'll have unwanted content 1khz either side of the fundamental frequency. So if you were playing a 15khz tone and your source had a lot of 1khz jitter, you'd have unwanted content at 14khz and 16khz.
For this reason, you cannot consider jitter in terms of a straight 'audible range'.
The AES3 standard specifies a corner frequency at 700hz and the APx555 defaults to a High-Pass 700hz and Low-Pass 100khz which is what I personally use for my measurements.
AP has a pretty thorough document on jitter as a subject which may be interesting to some: http://www.audiophilleo.com/zh_hk/docs/Dunn-AP-tn23.pdf

- They are running the U18 at 192khz. This is fine, as some music is going to be at 192khz, but it is not representative of MOST music, and performance at 44.1khz and 192khz is going to be different. Additionally 48khz base rates typically perform better than 44.1khz base rates due to it being easier to clock divide between the 48mhz USB rate and 48khz sample rate than it is to go from 48mhz to 44.1khz.
This occurs on many DACs and DDCs, and is why I include J-Tests for both rates on DACs and jitter tests at both rates for DDCs.
In any case, you cannot compare 192khz performance to redbook performance.

Repeating the above test but at 44.1khz looks like this:


----------



## GoldenOne

kumar402 said:


> So as per Cees, if any digital product has “steep digital filter” then these J-test are ok but for product that doesn’t have “Steep Digital filter “ the results are not true indicative of real life jitter. Now I took 2 example
> 1 . Gustard U18 - this uses below for signal processing
> CLPO for signal processing, the isolated IIS signal is reshaped to remove the jitter introduced by the isolator.
> 2. Singxer SU-6 - “FPGA-based source synchronization technology re-shaping the isolated I2S signal”
> ...


Neither will be using a digital filter.
Digital filter refers to an oversampling filter used in DACs. It doesn't apply to DDCs (unless it's an MScaler)


----------



## milkdudd

Am I correct to believe when listening to my flac files with UAPP from my Android into the U18, it makes sense to upsample everything to 192? I usually run bit perfect but today I have switched it to upsampling. Can't listen until later. When listening to Amazon HD everything is upsampled to 192


----------



## GoldenOne

milkdudd said:


> Am I correct to believe when listening to my flac files with UAPP from my Android into the U18, it makes sense to upsample everything to 192? I usually run bit perfect but today I have switched it to upsampling. Can't listen until later. When listening to Amazon HD everything is upsampled to 192


Whether or not upsampling will be a benefit depends on the quality of the upsampling in your DAC Vs the upsampling you're doing in software.

Afaik UAPP uses a decent SoX config which will be better than akm/ESS chip oversampling but with stuff like chord probably not


----------



## gimmeheadroom

It's a matter of personal preference/belief.


----------



## milkdudd

GoldenOne said:


> Whether or not upsampling will be a benefit depends on the quality of the upsampling in your DAC Vs the upsampling you're doing in software.
> 
> Afaik UAPP uses a decent SoX config which will be better than akm/ESS chip oversampling but with stuff like chord probably not


My dac is the gustard a22. I don't think it offers upsampling. I'll look like quite a stooge if I'm wrong about that


----------



## GoldenOne

milkdudd said:


> My dac is the gustard a22. I don't think it offers upsampling. I'll look like quite a stooge if I'm wrong about that


All delta sigma DACs oversample internally.

Some will have separate DSP chips internally to do higher quality oversampling than what the DAC itself would usually do but even if not the DAC chip itself has to oversample to function


----------



## milkdudd

GoldenOne said:


> All delta sigma DACs oversample internally.
> 
> Some will have separate DSP chips internally to do higher quality oversampling than what the DAC itself would usually do but even if not the DAC chip itself has to oversample to function


Okay I think I get it. What the display on the dac shows only refers to the incoming signal. Thanks


----------



## milkdudd

So only R2R dacs give the option of NOS mode? If that's true it explains why I could never find a setting for that on any of my dacs up till now, all Delta Sigma


----------



## doitttt (Apr 10, 2022)

i have gustard a22 and u18  on aes /ebu
on gustard a22 setting   Jitter Atten MODE2 will try to suppress more jitter.
i have 
to gustard u18 cybershaft platinum  ,purchased for $ 500 by user
i gives very clean sound to my studiomonitor neumann 310a
 I have also ,sotm dX-USB HD with sCKL 2224
jitter ps
clock drift 40ps
on usb signal 25ps
random 6ps
but does not sound, completely crystal clear
as gustard u18.
so that with jitter ps ,one can measure a lot,but not how it sounds.
just jitter ,it holds within 2 nano  ,it may still sound good


----------



## kumar402

GoldenOne said:


> Neither will be using a digital filter.
> Digital filter refers to an oversampling filter used in DACs. It doesn't apply to DDCs (unless it's an MScaler)


Makes sense but I was wondering if they use any kind of digital filter for reconstruction of signal. Good to know it’s not used in any way.


----------



## soumya.banerjee

GoldenOne said:


> - They are running the U18 at 192khz. This is fine, as some music is going to be at 192khz, but it is not representative of MOST music, and performance at 44.1khz and 192khz is going to be different. Additionally 48khz base rates typically perform better than 44.1khz base rates due to it being easier to clock divide between the 48mhz USB rate and 48khz sample rate than it is to go from 48mhz to 44.1khz.
> This occurs on many DACs and DDCs, and is why I include J-Tests for both rates on DACs and jitter tests at both rates for DDCs.
> In any case, you cannot compare 192khz performance to redbook performance.
> 
> Repeating the above test but at 44.1khz looks like this:



I completely missed the tiny sampling rate indicator at the bottom in Gustard's depicted pic. My bad! This completely explains the _discrepancy_ between the measurements. Can't say they are dishonest - just that they cherry picked sampling rate that would make it look pretty. Totally agree Red Book is the dominant format.
I am fairly certain had APx Coax /AES allowed > 192 kHz sampling rates, it would have looked even more prettier (just a hunch, could be woefully mistaken)


GoldenOne said:


> Sonnet's comment about the J-Test here is completely valid, and you can see it demonstrated on other DACs. The J-Test requires a steep filter to be valid, and so doing it on a NOS dac for example will seem to show very poor jitter even if that isn't the case.
> 
> On the Rockna wavedream as an example from a different manufacturer:
> 
> ...





GoldenOne said:


> - They have their filters configured to the 'audible range' between 50hz and 22khz, which is not really what you should be looking at for jitter.
> Jitter does not create a 1:1 result, ie: jitter at 1khz does not mean that you'll have unwanted noise at 1khz on the output, it means you'll have unwanted content 1khz either side of the fundamental frequency. So if you were playing a 15khz tone and your source had a lot of 1khz jitter, you'd have unwanted content at 14khz and 16khz.
> For this reason, you cannot consider jitter in terms of a straight 'audible range'.
> The AES3 standard specifies a corner frequency at 700hz and the APx555 defaults to a High-Pass 700hz and Low-Pass 100khz which is what I personally use for my measurements.



So I was more curious if APx own notch or band-pass filter settings can make a drastic difference in measured Jitter values - regardless of being fed by analog or digital inputs the same way a reconstruction filter of a DAC can ; something a manufacturer can take advantage of. I guess not - which is good.

Thanks for that link on AES Jitter paper - very thorough indeed. Perfect weekend reading material!


----------



## soumya.banerjee

At this point I am little baffled over something that I can't explain yet or should I say I am not able to co-relate to RMS jitter levels. 

There are DACs which have better measured Jitter performance over their built in USB implementation (X16 and X18 that I have currently) ; and yet with U18 they just _sound better _via I2S. 
If I have to describe - it gives a certain leading edge to the tones and makes a wider and deeper sound-stage presentation. There is a certain tactility and precision with U18 in the chain which sounds so reciprocal to the measurements. And this gets much better at higher sampling rates. Thus far, have tested mostly on ESS based DACs. While I am pretty certain these DACs I speak of , have ESS' ASRC disabled so I don't expect that should have any role in these _perceived improvements_.
I need to check out with Holo Spring I2S. 

Also, need to read up a bit more what else goes in waveform shaping that's being done inside these CPLD/FPGAs.


----------



## kumar402 (Apr 11, 2022)

soumya.banerjee said:


> At this point I am little baffled over something that I can't explain yet or should I say I am not able to co-relate to RMS jitter levels.
> 
> There are DACs which have better measured Jitter performance over their built in USB implementation (X16 and X18 that I have currently) ; and yet with U18 they just _sound better _via I2S.
> If I have to describe - it gives a certain leading edge to the tones and makes a wider and deeper sound-stage presentation. There is a certain tactility and precision with U18 in the chain which sounds so reciprocal to the measurements. And this gets much better at higher sampling rates. Thus far, have tested mostly on ESS based DACs. While I am pretty certain these DACs I speak of , have ESS' ASRC disabled so I don't expect that should have any role in these _perceived improvements_.
> ...


This is so akin to my observation. The wider stage and tactility in bass is noticeable out of U18. In fact I prefer it over Pi2AES which has better jitter performance and I’m using it with NOS DAC. However most of my music is upsampled via PGGB to 192Khz.


----------



## GoldenOne

soumya.banerjee said:


> So I was more curious if APx own notch or band-pass filter settings can make a drastic difference in measured Jitter values - regardless of being fed by analog or digital inputs the same way a reconstruction filter of a DAC can ; something a manufacturer can take advantage of. I guess not - which is good.


Analog domain filters like the Notch filter ("High performance sine analyzer" as it's called in the software) are for analog inputs only. 
You can use these for jitter measurements, though it's typically best not to do so as it can affect how accurately sidebands very close to the fundamental are portrayed.
It's intended for THD+N testing to eliminate the ADC's own harmonics and is typically not ideal for other tests with some exceptions.

The digital domain options like bandpass filtering or weighting can be used on anything and will affect the peak/RMS values because anything you choose to filter out does not get factored into the maths. Which is why how they're set can drastically influence the apparent performance of a device.
This is also why you'll so often see manufacturers of DACs/Amps using 'A-Weighted' measurements instead of unweighted, cause it makes the numbers look better


----------



## GoldenOne

Also, U18 with a 10mhz clock input and Ref Ext selected seems to perform in large part similar to without, but with a few areas of increased jitter.





48khz ^^




44.1khz


----------



## doitttt

GoldenOne
have you tried measuring on audiophilleo 1 and2
and see what the result will be


----------



## GoldenOne

doitttt said:


> GoldenOne
> have you tried measuring on audiophilleo 1 and2
> and see what the result will be


I've not tried either unfortunately. I'd happily try one if the opportunity arises though


----------



## JaMo

Hi @GoldenOne ,
May I ask what external Oscillator was used during these measurements? I find it strange, if the EXT XO is better (less phase noise) and with correct BNC connectors and cable, to get a worse result than on internal XO's. The Accusilicon AS338 are quite good compare to a lot of other XO's out there.. But by adding the highest quality master clock as in my case is the REF SE120, the result soundwise is brilliant.
-How can the measurements show these numbers?
/Jan


----------



## GoldenOne (Apr 11, 2022)

JaMo said:


> Hi @GoldenOne ,
> May I ask what external Oscillator was used during these measurements? I find it strange, if the EXT XO is better (less phase noise) and with correct BNC connectors and cable, to get a worse result than on internal XO's. The Accusilicon AS338 are quite good compare to a lot of other XO's out there.. But by adding the highest quality master clock as in my case is the REF SE120, the result soundwise is brilliant.
> -How can the measurements show these numbers?
> /Jan


This is using the APx555's own 10Mhz reference output, with cables I've personally tested to be correct characteristic impedance.

The key thing to remember is that using a 10Mhz reference clock does not really work in the way that people assume. When using a 10Mhz clock, your DAC does not run directly off it. Your DAC uses the external clock as a reference and its own VCO in a PLL to synthesize the output clock signal at the required rate.
Meaning in most cases, you're still using the same clock internally, just with a PLL ensuring that there is no long-term clock drift relative to the 10Mhz reference input. And so you'll get the same or slightly worse jitter performance as we see here.

10Mhz clocks were never intended to improve performance. They are intended to keep many devices in sync and prevent long term clock drift so that in professional situations where you may have dozens of ADCs, processors, DACs etc, you don't end up with sync issues between them.
This is especially important in video applications.

They've made their way into the home audio market because they're big and expensive and therefore people will buy them and expect to hear an improvement. (And therefore companies are also marketing them toward audiophiles) But there is a reason you don't see DAC manufacturers even at the ultra high end using 10Mhz clocks internally.

Using a higher quality clock directly, such as by using an I2S DDC with better quality clocks than the ones in your DAC, can absolutely result in a subjectively obvious and objectively demonstrable improvement in jitter performance. Cause you've pretty much replaced the clock source with a better one.
But with a 10Mhz clock that's not what's happened. They were intended to solve the issue of clock drift/sync between many devices, not to improve performance. And they do not replace the clock source like what happens with an I2S DDC

EDIT: This is a pretty thorough video on the topic for those wanting to know more about the ins and outs of how this works:


----------



## JaMo

Thanks for the informative answer. 
/Jan


----------



## Crypt Keeper

I have tried different power supplies with my AD Double Crown Clock and each time I’m getting impression “my DAC was replaced” and not the clock LPS … The tone is different not just instrument separation and the stage … Most recently I tried iFi iPower Elite and got more bass and highs + more micro details… (AD Double Crown Clock is connected to U18)


----------



## doitttt

hold jitter down
CHAIN1: the laptop it makes a lot of noise, always on usbport.
i have done it to put HoloAudio - Titanis, then idefender with xpower 5volt
  then I disconnect the power, from laptop and user, idefender with clean power
then there is usb cable, must have low jitter.
I use QED Reference usb 3meter, it has very low jitter.
CHAIN2: gustard u18 there is not much to do.
other one uses, hdmicable high quality.
or aes / ebu, I use mogami 3080 aes cable 110ohm.
what about jitter, between hdmi and aes / ebu, it measured to no difference
but there may be the difference, on the sound in hdmi and aes / ebu
i have set external cybershaft 10mhz clock, on gustard u18
must provide lower ps jitter
what i say to get the best result, out of gustard u18, it starts with the laptop


----------



## doitttt (Apr 11, 2022)

with 10mhz clock should look at clock noise
how much fs clock has, and not psjitter
the best clock, is mutec ref10, it is very low
it has 15fs at 1hz and 10hz 3fs
other clocke goes 7 fs to 300fs
it makes the sound become, more clear, in the bass and midrange
and treble , transients flow better


----------



## 801evan (Apr 11, 2022)

Crypt Keeper said:


> I have tried different power supplies with my AD Double Crown Clock and each time I’m getting impression “my DAC was replaced” and not the clock LPS … The tone is different not just instrument separation and the stage … Most recently I tried iFi iPower Elite and got more bass and highs + more micro details… (AD Double Crown Clock is connected to U18)


Good to hear this experiment. Something I'll do down the line. What bnc cable do you use? I experience the same upgrades using a ocxo. It's better than getting a dac upgrade. I have taken out the ferrite on the stock Elite as it gives a hump on the upper mids. Then I use a Oyaide dc plug. It's a great upgrade path. I have since upgraded the dc cable to silver occ for a deeper more extended top and bottom sound.


----------



## 801evan

doitttt said:


> i have done it to put HoloAudio - Titanis, then idefender with xpower 5volt


I've tried the Titanis between the Zen Stream and different DACs fed with line conditioner, silver cables and 24x lt3045 voltage regulators. It has a thin sound. Lacks extension and mid bass. Ifi USb purifier 3 is a much fuller sound with no compromise.



doitttt said:


> the best clock, is mutec ref10



Mutec ref10 may be good but it's performance is restricted by the PSU. I get better performance out of DC powered ocxo and powering it with ifi Elite or in my case, a custom psu with lt3045. I've tried the mutec ref10 and I get better performance with the USB ipurifier 3 method.  You may get better performance on the lower end mutec with a PSU mod so you can use a dc powered psu. 

Eventually you want to upgrade from the laptop as streamer and try a zen stream + elite 15v. It's a much transparent experience.


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Apr 11, 2022)

801evan said:


> Good to hear this experiment. Something I'll do down the line. What bnc cable do you use? I experience the same upgrades using a ocxo. It's better than getting a dac upgrade. I take out the ferrite on the stock Elite as it gives a hump on the upper mids. Then I use a Oyaide dc plug. It's a great upgrade path. I have since upgraded the dc cable to silver occ for a deeper more extended top and bottom sound.


I’m using Gustard C2 clock cable ($167) and it seems to beat the stock cable (AD Red clock cable 1m) I will be ordering Farad Super 3 LPS soon I want to try it with the clock and I have 1 extra SR Purple Fuse available just in time. With the fuse and DC cable upgrades the price is close to $1K it’s a lot for a LPS but I think I’m going to do this…


----------



## 801evan (Apr 11, 2022)

Crypt Keeper said:


> I’m using Gustard C2 clock cable ($167) and it seems to beat the stock cable (AD Red clock cable 1m) I will be ordering Farad Super 3 LPS soon I want to try it with the clock and I have 1 extra SR Purple Fuse available just in time. With the fuse and DC cable upgrades the price is close to $1K it’s a lot for LPS but I think I’m going to do this…


I've tried the super 3. It's a bit deeper (in a less transparent way, but more due to the caps) and slower than the Elite. The Elite beats the Hypsos in all my devices. Hypsos has a haze and is grainy + poor blacks in comparison.

Does that mean you have tried the c16 /c18 vs the AD ocxo with the u18? How's the difference?


----------



## Crypt Keeper

801evan said:


> I've tried the super 3. It's a bit deeper (in a less transparent way, but more due to the caps) and slower than the Elite. The Elite beats the Hypsos in all my devices. Hypsos has a haze and is grainy + poor blacks in comparison.
> 
> Does that mean you have tried the c16 /c18 vs the AD ocxo with the u18? How's the difference?


I'm using “Fanless” cheap mini PC with Linux based Daphile (Real Time Kernel for low jitter) powered with ifi elite at the moment and it’s a huge improvement over always noisy laptop I’ve been using before … Would you say Zen Stream is going to be cleaner due to that  Audio USB port it has ?


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Apr 12, 2022)

801evan said:


> I've tried the super 3. It's a bit deeper (in a less transparent way, but more due to the caps) and slower than the Elite. The Elite beats the Hypsos in all my devices. Hypsos has a haze and is grainy + poor blacks in comparison.
> 
> Does that mean you have tried the c16 /c18 vs the AD ocxo with the u18? How's the difference?


No. I didn’t get a chance to check out Gustard C18 clock with U18 … I went with AD Double crown Clock and then just replaced the clock cable …


----------



## 801evan (Apr 11, 2022)

Crypt Keeper said:


> I'm using “Fanless” cheap mini PC with Linux based Daphile (Real Time Kernel for low jitter) powered with ifi elite at the moment and it’s a huge improvement over always noisy laptop I’ve been using before … Would you say Zen Stream is going to be cleaner due to that  Audio USB port it has ?


In a simple setup, coax sounds better. But I exceed the coax performance by doing
Zen stream > idefender > ipurifier > cosemi optical USB cable > idefender > purifier > dac.
I use diy silver occ couplers where needed and idefender on both upstream and downstream is powered (including zen stream) up to 60x lt3045 + custom psu + line conditioner. And it can beat 15k usd streamers with no sweat.

Part of the magic is making the zen stream tap to my phone's 5ghz hotspot and stream tidal and local files on my phone. It literally doubles the SQ performance and saves a lot of money from Audiophile level modem,router, switches and sfp+ devices.

Previously used a fanless Intel NUC clone as a dedicated streamer running windows server 2012 + audio optimizer + fidelizer + HQplayer powered by HDPLEX with silver dc cables + line conditioner. While this was a huge improvement, zen streamer is much better. Zen stream is also sensitive in a shared wifi environment so the phone trick works out. When my tablet was downloading from Netflix I can hear that interference in my sound playback.

This week I'm doing a zen stream coax vs CDT to test my chain and new custom psu. Both will passthrough a spdif purifier with 100x lt3045. So it'll be interesting to add a u18 in between my USB chain and the spdif purifier and see how that performs.


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Apr 12, 2022)

801evan said:


> In a simple setup, coax sounds better. But I exceed the coax performance by doing
> Zen stream > idefender > ipurifier > cosemi optical USB cable > idefender > purifier > dac.
> I use diy silver occ couplers where needed and idefender on both upstream and downstream is powered (including zen stream) up to 60x lt3045 + custom psu + line conditioner. And it can beat 15k usd streamers with no sweat.
> 
> ...


I have Zen Stream on my list. Thank you.


----------



## EMINENT (Apr 12, 2022)

Cross posting from X26 Pro thread.

"I swapped to the SR Purple fuses last night in both my X26 Pro and U18 and I heard extra airiness or ambiance in the treble but the bass seemed weaker. I know it's too early to make judgements so I will give it 200 hours of burn in and reaccess."


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## milkdudd (Apr 13, 2022)

EMINENT said:


> Cross posting from X26 Pro thread.
> 
> "I swapped to the SR Purple fuses last night in both my X26 Pro and U18 and I heard extra airiness or ambiance in the treble but the bass seemed weaker. I know it's too early to make judgements so I will give it 200 hours of burn in and reaccess."


 Please let us know your findings when that time comes. I'm trying to decide if I want to go with the purple fuses or the upgrade Gustard fuses for $25 each


----------



## Highfive99

milkdudd said:


> Please let us know your findings when that time comes. I'm trying to decide if I want to go with the purple fuses or the upgrade Gustard fuses for $25 each


I had the Gustard fuses in my X26p and U18 and went with purples.  The Gustards are better than the ones they came with but the purples weren't sent back after their 30 day trial period is all I'll say. I'm not one to blow $400 on fuses without very good reason.

Also this retailer has a good deal on them this month if you can use 3 of them.  https://www.thecableco.com/specials/synergistic-research's-new-purple-fuses-buy-2-get-1-free.html


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## Larent

Hi Everybody .My experience with my Gustard DDC U18. I have a pontus 2 denafrips with an exposure 3510 amplifier, on one hand on the other hand, for my headphone listening system, the qutest and a...simple monprice headphone amp 6w, or a tube amplifier for my Abyss tC on basis of 300 B tubes .

I had the singxer su1 previously and it gave me the opportunity to compare . No measurements here, only ears working ...

To make a long story short, the results are astonishing , as i speak not in terms of performances but in terms of musicality . it's only good, more resolving , god damn fine, and i didn't even go to the SR purple fuse .

With my loudspeakers connected to the server roon and the U18 gustard, in goes far better in terms of credibility soundwise speaking, open space ,  the instruments , and the voices , really great .

with the Zen stream, its a bit different,  i don't find back the resolution that i have with my PC as source for roon or audirvana , the last is more musical ( audirvana ) but Roon is more practical for use , that's a choice, i have them both 

Then for the Zen stream i will use the ipurifier and a an external psu in order to optimize , at this stage , it's not bad with the U18 , on the contrary, but comparable with a server, or a nucleus , or an optimized audio PC , they are not playing in the same league 

I think, belonging the denafrips pontus, that a Gaia or a Hermes, should be performing better, but i m not sure of it, and regarding the price, the U18 Gustard goes in terms of musicality, quality and price , for the thrith of the price, in a audiophile world , well ....

that brings without putting questions measurements , us in a consideration which can put us with normally the best of it in measures , jitter etc ...and pardoxally a better sounding unit .

What i have to add, is that synergy , cables , with me personally, played a huge rol in order to get the best of it 

One question for you guys, i m know about to order the SR Purple fuse , the which one do i have to buy the ( 5x20mm ? ) + 500 or 630 ma ? Thanks for the last, i ve read here the both 500 ma or 630 ma , please let me know 

Thanks for all of you  , somethimes our reality is not the same reality for others, that the charm of this passion !


----------



## ihyan2

I received the U18 about a week ago mainly to get I2S to the Rockna Wavedream. Works perfectly with the standard Gustard setting right out of the box.

It's really a big jump in resolution and spatial cues and really shows off what the Wavedream can do. Was using the USB output with the IFI Ipurifier coming from Lumin U1 mini prior to I2S. Now I send usb still with the IFI Ipurifier to u18 then I2S to the Rockna Wavedream.

Am so happy with it that I just ordered the Gustard C18 master clock to clock sync the U18 and my uptone etherregen. Really looking forward to it...


----------



## kumar402

Larent said:


> Hi Everybody .My experience with my Gustard DDC U18. I have a pontus 2 denafrips with an exposure 3510 amplifier, on one hand on the other hand, for my headphone listening system, the qutest and a...simple monprice headphone amp 6w, or a tube amplifier for my Abyss tC on basis of 300 B tubes .
> 
> I had the singxer su1 previously and it gave me the opportunity to compare . No measurements here, only ears working ...
> 
> ...


Fuse Size:  5 x 20mm Fuse Rating:  500mA


----------



## Highfive99

kumar402 said:


> Fuse Size:  5 x 20mm Fuse Rating:  500mA


Also slow blow. Not fast blow


----------



## Highfive99

ihyan2 said:


> I received the U18 about a week ago mainly to get I2S to the Rockna Wavedream. Works perfectly with the standard Gustard setting right out of the box.
> 
> It's really a big jump in resolution and spatial cues and really shows off what the Wavedream can do. Was using the USB output with the IFI Ipurifier coming from Lumin U1 mini prior to I2S. Now I send usb still with the IFI Ipurifier to u18 then I2S to the Rockna Wavedream.
> 
> Am so happy with it that I just ordered the Gustard C18 master clock to clock sync the U18 and my uptone etherregen. Really looking forward to it...


U18 will get even better after some hours.  Please let us know your impressions of the C18 once you get it.


----------



## kumar402

Here is the pic of spec from my order


----------



## Larent

The vendor of these fuse advises me here in Europe , for the 630 ma that it gives better result without any risks . What are asking Gustard or using as standard for their U18 ?


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## kumar402

Default Guatard fuse was 500ma. I'm not sure if the components inside Guatard U18 can withstand 630 ma. May be they can but I went with the Guatard specs on fuse.  
Fuse is to limit the current in case we have surge. Already we are using slow blow not sure if we should use higher current rating. Under normal circumstances there won't be an issue though.


----------



## Highfive99

kumar402 said:


> Default Guatard fuse was 500ma. I'm not sure if the components inside Guatard U18 can withstand 630 ma. May be they can but I went with the Guatard specs on fuse.
> Fuse is to limit the current in case we have surge. Already we are using slow blow not sure if we should use higher current rating. Under normal circumstances there won't be an issue though.


Gustard $25 nano fuse is 630ma so OK to use for U18. If it was an issue I'm sure Gustard would have made a 500ma available for  the U18. But highly doubt that it would sound different or better than a 500ma fuse as Larent was told.


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## Crypt Keeper (Apr 13, 2022)

Highfive99 said:


> I had the Gustard fuses in my X26p and U18 and went with purples.  The Gustards are better than the ones they came with but the purples weren't sent back after their 30 day trial period is all I'll say. I'm not one to blow $400 on fuses without very good reason.
> 
> Also this retailer has a good deal on them this month if you can use 3 of them.  https://www.thecableco.com/specials/synergistic-research's-new-purple-fuses-buy-2-get-1-free.html


I tried Aucharm Red VS SR Purple . Purple was much better  … I need to compare SR Purple to Aucharm Blue Mineral Oil Fuse ($80) , But Purple was so good , I have 4 now…
 SR Purple >Aucharm Red > Gustard Fuse
 Vhaudio has Special through April: Buy 2, get 1 FREE Deal .


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## T 1000

kumar402 said:


> Default Guatard fuse was 500ma. I'm not sure if the components inside Guatard U18 can withstand 630 ma. May be they can but I went with the Guatard specs on fuse.
> Fuse is to limit the current in case we have surge. Already we are using slow blow not sure if we should use higher current rating. Under normal circumstances there won't be an issue though.


No problem with 630 mA


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## Crypt Keeper

Larent said:


> The vendor of these fuse advises me here in Europe , for the 630 ma that it gives better result without any risks . What are asking Gustard or using as standard for their U18 ?


On the fuse it says 250 V, so I think you should be fine with 500 mA… Some manufacturers recommend less Amperage with higher Voltage . This from Farad 3 LPS Manual on fuses: “we recommend using a 800mA slow blow 5x20 for 230Vac versions and a 1.6A slow for 115Vac input versions”


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## Larent

Do you think that adding a ipurifier 3 usb filter to the u18 , that it would be a good idea, it seems to me that it would be a dubble use for the same objective


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## kumar402

Larent said:


> Do you think that adding a ipurifier 3 usb filter to the u18 , that it would be a good idea, it seems to me that it would be a dubble use for the same objective


U18 already has galvanic isolation in place. No need to use it


----------



## 801evan

Anyone


Larent said:


> Do you think that adding a ipurifier 3 usb filter to the u18 , that it would be a good idea, it seems to me that it would be a dubble use for the same objective


Usually always a yes but you will need a idefender and do external power to hear the benefits. Otherwise the purifier will get the power from the laptop or streamer and you will end up with a worse sound. After years of trying devices, 'galvanic isolation' doesn't really mean anything in decoupling/isolation from upstream for better SQ.


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## doitttt (Apr 14, 2022)

idefender +xpower, make clean power,  from laptop ,gives clean sound.
laptop haves, dirty power from usbport
 ipurifier 3  good idea , less distortion, due to dc offset


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## kumar402

I mean we can put these reconstruction devices in series and there is no end to it. Let U18 do its job of removing noise and signal reconstruction. Adding more devices that does the same like signal reconstruction etc will only make it worse.


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## T 1000

After the initial impression that by adding Idefendert + Elite power I got the quality of the resolution, shortly after I removed it from the USB line.
Idefender did bring a shade of better resolution, but it also brought unnecessary brightness to all sounds
Of course, this is in my system and my impressions


----------



## 801evan

T 1000 said:


> After the initial impression that by adding Idefendert + Elite power I got the quality of the resolution, shortly after I removed it from the USB line.
> Idefender did bring a shade of better resolution, but it also brought unnecessary brightness to all sounds
> Of course, this is in my system and my impressions


This is with usb purifier?


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## doitttt

no 
clean power, and remove, dc offset
provides better sound, especially ,in bass and midrange
and high quality usbcable
have tested it 200mhz isolation, is somewhat flat, for laptop without anything
clean power, from the laptop, are key words here
dc offset, also gives something


----------



## soumya.banerjee

doitttt said:


> no
> clean power, and remove, dc offset
> provides better sound, especially ,in bass and midrange
> and high quality usbcable
> ...


Please don't toss around jargons at your whim if you don't understand what they mean.
I have seen you quote "you tested this and that" and you have been called out elsewhere.

You want to quote your subjective impressions - that's fine. Let's not try to co-relate them to some imaginary scientific metric / measurements to justify them.
And no, I do not represent Cargo Cult Science websites like ASR before you jump to that conclusion


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## Larent (Apr 14, 2022)

I ve tried the Ifi  ipurifier 3  on the U18... just curious , well, in my loudspeaker system , it gives a brighter sound , may be too bright , i didn't use the idefender + , because you have to get a power supply or power bank apparently .

On the other hand, on my qutest for my headphone system,  even thoug that the chord qutest has a galvanic isolation, it brought more resolution from my PC.

with the zen stream , it didn't add something special , didn't like the combination though .

Moral of the story, ...it works well with some devices and less good matching with other devices .

Next step the purple SR fuse .... ont the Gustard U18.


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## doitttt

clean power, from the laptop, are key words here.


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## 801evan

Larent said:


> I ve tried the Ifi  ipurifier 3  on the U18... just curious , well, in my loudspeaker system , it gives a brighter sound , may be too bright , i didn't use the idefender + , because you have to get a power supply or power bank apparently .
> 
> On the other hand, on my qutest for my headphone system,  even thoug that the chord qutest has a galvanic isolation, it brought more resolution from my PC.
> 
> ...


Yep precisely shows that u18 and any device that is "galvanic isolated" will still have SQ differences depending on the upstream chain. Also shows how inadequate an APx555 is.


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## Crypt Keeper

My “fanless” laptop always been noisy… Running on battery or PS (Due to Lithium batteries and switching “after-battery” regulators, as far as I know…) but mini-pc with a nice LPS or Ifi Elite 12v was much, much better…


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## Larent

I will receive a LPs 12 v for the zen stream and my switch netgear. I ll add idefender +.  We ll see in both cases ipurifier gustard + denafrips pontus in i2s + zen stream + idefender on one hand .

And with the qutest chord on the other hand with pc not laptop . Here again with occ Cooper USB cable and ipurifier gives already substantial better results.


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## T 1000 (Apr 15, 2022)

801evan said:


> This is with usb purifier?


No, just Idefender+ and Ifi Power Elite 5v


----------



## 801evan

Larent said:


> I will receive a LPs 12 v for the zen stream and my switch netgear. I ll add idefender +.  We ll see in both cases ipurifier gustard + denafrips pontus in i2s + zen stream + idefender on one hand .
> 
> And with the qutest chord on the other hand with pc not laptop . Here again with occ Cooper USB cable and ipurifier gives already substantial better results.


Elite 15v sounds better than 12v for me on the zen stream


----------



## 801evan

T 1000 said:


> No, just Idefender + and Ifi Power Elite 5v that powers it


Yea that may be worse actually. It is better to cut vbus if the u18 doesn't need it.

So your option is to add a purifier in your chain. And if the u18 doesn't need vbus, you can tape the ground  on the usb cable.


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## T 1000 (Apr 15, 2022)

801evan said:


> Yea that may be worse actually. It is better to cut vbus if the u18 doesn't need it.
> 
> So your option is to add a purifier in your chain. And if the u18 doesn't need vbus, you can tape the ground  on the usb cable.


No, that option (with Idefednder) doesn't interest me anymore.
My latest fascination is how much noise removal affects the increase in sound quality, but they come from everywhere.
Not really, I don't want to waste my hopes on Idefender + anymore, with or without power,there are other options on my horizon.
With my Bryston BHA 1 and Pegasus and all the cables and accessories (U18, fuses ...) there is still a lot to add, which will make the sound even more realistic.
The noise is really interesting, when I hear everything super clear, with a big stage, fine details, it turns out that by adding a new power cord or something else, all the sound gets a new dimension rich in new details and sound benefits.


----------



## 801evan

T 1000 said:


> No, that option (with Idefednder) doesn't interest me anymore.
> My latest fascination is how much noise removal affects the increase in sound quality, but they come from everywhere.
> Not really, I don't want to waste my hopes on Idefender + anymore, with or without power.
> With my Bryston BHA 1 and Pegasus and all the cables and accessories (U18, fuses ...) there is still a lot to add, which will make the sound even more realistic.
> The noise is really interesting, when I hear everything super clear, with a big stage, fine details, it turns out that by adding a new power cord or something else, all the sound gets a new dimension rich in new details and sound benefits.


Yet all that I said and the idefender situation is still about noise.


----------



## T 1000

801evan said:


> Yet all that I said and the idefender situation is still about noise.


I plan to get some satisfying streamers soon.


----------



## doitttt

noise in laptop are most comes from power usbport  its very noisey
from idefender and xpower provides clean power
to disconnect laptop usbpower
that's where to start
then you are well on your way to good sounds


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## doitttt

can not see why, one use high end fuses, and yet
https://playbutton.co/do-hi-fi-fuses-make-a-difference/
here is the guide for and against, highend fuses
for my power I use dcblocker
http://www.jenving.com/products/view/dc-blocker-md01-16-eu-3024000378
gives me some better sound


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Sotm sMS-200ultra Neo (with clock input) is the unit I would like to try... But I don’t want/need Roon. I’m positive it’s not going to be problem free on the software side, as usual … I have “almost perfect” Linux based RTK Daphile with play from RAM feature that works perfect with any NAS, but It’s for PC Hardware only … I can not install it on a good streamer…


----------



## T 1000

doitttt said:


> can not see why, one use high end fuses, and yet
> https://playbutton.co/do-hi-fi-fuses-make-a-difference/
> here is the guide for and against, highend fuses
> for my power I use dcblocker
> ...


"Audiophile fuses", what a scam!


----------



## milkdudd

T 1000 said:


> "Audiophile fuses", what a scam!


Trying to figure out if this is sarcasm or serious. For the record I believe it to be sarcasm


----------



## T 1000

milkdudd said:


> Trying to figure out if this is sarcasm or serious. For the record I believe it to be sarcasm


Now a little irony
If we share our experiences here and praise the purple fuse (most often) for its great contribution to the overall sound, then why impose the assumptions of one analyst on the irrelevance of the fuse to improve the sound.
Of course what he states in his claims about fuses is a bunch of nonsense.


----------



## doitttt

take it easy now
i also use hi-fi tuning supreme fuses, think even it gives better sound.
which means
articles and links ,I find online
it not because, I make criticism of fuses.
try reading my link.
https://playbutton.co/do-hi-fi-fuses-make-a-difference/
so can judge for yourself


----------



## doitttt

can not see why, one use high end fuses
incorrect language use
sorry i use google translate


----------



## 801evan

I went for the neutral route and install silver ac inlets with no-fuse.


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## T 1000 (Apr 16, 2022)

doitttt said:


> can not see why, one use high end fuses
> incorrect language use
> sorry i use google translate


I apologize for the hasty reaction.
That Google translate is a problem for me too, and I use it to avoid spelling mistakes, and often without reading the translate I just pass it on.


doitttt said:


> take it easy now
> i also use hi-fi tuning supreme fuses, think even it gives better sound.
> which means
> articles and links ,I find online
> ...


For me, fuses have been a striking experience, I would say with a greater impact than any other component in my system (!). Now, the impact of fuses must be approached with caution, so far I have read many restrained comments about their impact on sound.


801evan said:


> I went for the neutral route and install silver ac inlets with no-fuse.


To know  work with a soldering iron and I would do it that. When a higher quality material is placed on a part of the road (electricity path), it results in improvement. It is interesting to approach sound improvement with such an approach.


----------



## milkdudd

It sounds like nobody has ever had a problem using the 630 ma slow blow fuse with the U18. If that's true, doesn't it make more sense to go that route instead of the 500 ma which would blow easier in a borderline surge? On a separate note I have a topping D90 (AKM version without MQA) that I was planning to sell because I'm not real pleased with it. I'm thinking now if I got a second U18 it might work wonders with that dac. I think I remember some have said the problem with that is it's USB input is flawed. Anyone know for sure?


----------



## kingoftown1

A good DDC will improve the D90 slightly, but it won't transform it into a new dac.


----------



## milkdudd

kingoftown1 said:


> A good DDC will improve the D90 slightly, but it won't transform it into a new dac.


Okay thanks. I should probably sell it and at some point upgrade to the X26 Pro. Of course if I hold off until fall to upgrade there will likely be other options in a similar price range


----------



## doitttt

if the usb input works on gustard u18, then it's not that wrong.
on topping d90 sits ic, lme 49720 at the output.
if you connect gustard u18 yourself, and get some sharp sound
ic lme 49720 measures well, but on some hi-fi systems, it does not sound good.
i have tried with d70, gave very sharp sound, lme 49720 at the end.
gustard a22 I bought then, with discrete components, in the end
class a output step, gustard u18 is very, delicate with dac
gustard x26 pro, also has, discrete components, in the output
class a, it sounds good


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## Ludique (Apr 18, 2022)

Notice that Gustard usually puts the same fuse in equipment meant for Europe (230V) and other continents (110-120V). The European fuse amperage should be lower, but the difference is small and they probably think it's not worth the hassle.


----------



## T 1000

I bought SMS 200 Neo and ISO CAT 6 (I will replace it with ISO CAT 7 later).
I will give my opinion on ISO CAT 6 later when I set it up


----------



## Crypt Keeper

T 1000 said:


> I bought SMS 200 Neo and ISO CAT 6 (I will replace it with ISO CAT 7 later).
> I will give my opinion on ISO CAT 6 later when I set it up



Same here . I have : ifi zen stream VS Sotm SMS 200  Neo... Zen stream was not for me and already going back to Amazon... Awaiting SMS 200 Neo delivery...
​


----------



## T 1000

Crypt Keeper said:


> Same here . I have : ifi zen stream VS Sotm SMS 200  Neo... Zen stream was not for me and already going back to Amazon... Awaiting SMS 200 Neo delivery...
> ​


I have yet to hear if I will have a sound advantage with SOTM over Audirvana Studio on Dell


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## Crypt Keeper (Apr 18, 2022)

T 1000 said:


> I have yet to hear if I will have a sound advantage with SOTM over Audirvana Studio on Dell


If SMS 200  powered with a good LPS  I'm sure you  will ...  My plan is to  run Sotm  with Ifi power elite or even Farad Super3 with rhodium IEC & SR Purple fuse + Good DC cord ...


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## T 1000 (Apr 19, 2022)

Crypt Keeper said:


> If SMS 200  powered with a good LPS  I'm sure you  will ...  My plan is to  run Sotm  with Ifi power elite or even Farad Super3 with rhodium IEC & SR Purple fuse + Good DC cord ...


For start Ifi power ,then very soon SOTM SPS 500


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## T 1000

of course power supply is very important, but i read that -lps- introduces noise so it needs a little research


----------



## Crypt Keeper

T 1000 said:


> of course power supply is very important, but i read that -lps- introduces noise so it needs a little research


Ifi  power elite is very low noise  but  it's  so different from  Farad Super3 or just plain LPS... I learned that by trying different PSUs with my master clock... Sounds like  you  switching DACs ...  Completely different signature...  I guess it's  always more than just  them numbers ...


----------



## 801evan

Crypt Keeper said:


> Same here . I have : ifi zen stream VS Sotm SMS 200  Neo... Zen stream was not for me and already going back to Amazon... Awaiting SMS 200 Neo delivery...
> ​


Sorry to hear you didn't like the zen stream. Were you doing local files or streaming mostly?


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## Crypt Keeper (Apr 18, 2022)

801evan said:


> Sorry to hear you didn't like the zen stream. Were you doing local files or streaming mostly?


Yes. I have storage drive with flacs. I don’t do any streaming except Di.fm premium web radio … Sounds easy ? but I couldn’t do it with Zen stream unfortunately… I think I spent over 8 hours fighting and then just gave up (After Gustard U18 got hang b/c Zen stream just got frozen again) I mean U18 was super stable with no problems whatsoever running strong for like 5 month…

The first Zen I got from Amazon was used , but sold as new (I realized that b/c it was missing the reset sticker) and could not connect wi-fi or ethernet… No connection at all… I returned that one and ordered another, BN unit arrived this time. The second unit was getting frozen (reboot needed) randomly after about 1 hr of web radio playback… I tried enabling/ disabling services and other things, but no luck) The max problem-free playback I got was about 6 hrs straight... I was not using any side software to control the unit. Just simple built in Volumio, nothing else… Flacs were fine, but these hangups from playing simple 320 Kbps CBR MP3 stream weren’t nice at all. I must say that SQ was much better than my fan less mini PC – Ifi Elite 12 V combo. Again, I didn’t do any Roon endpoints or Tidal and I read it runs solid with Roon…

Unfortunately Zen stream was not my cup of tea . But it was great experience ! I decided to try SMS 200 Neo, b/c the next unit I really want to try is Sotm Ultra with clock input.. Hope LMS (Sotm) would be more stable than Volumio…


----------



## 801evan

Crypt Keeper said:


> Again, I didn’t do any Roon endpoints or Tidal and I read it runs solid with Roon…


It officially runs okay on Roon as of today. Lol. But only on AIO mode with usb. Exclusive Roon mode is only spdif



Crypt Keeper said:


> The second unit was getting frozen (reboot needed)


This is common behavior on the factory firmware. A lot have been resolved on later firmware updates. Yea some experience is needed to understand the quirks on the handshaking on the Zen. I initially found it very temperamental but seeing that a friend who is a total noob got it running without crying made me persevere.  And yes, I was burning in the zen stream playing files off a flash drive over night but it kept crapping out every few hours and the only solution is a reboot. I haven't done flash drive non stop playing since after the break in process because the SQ of playing local files over my phone streaming to the zen stream via WiFi is more than 2x the SQ jump. I need a long USB chain to have the local flash drive keep up but it still lags in performance.

The only bugs I notice with zen stream USB out is if the chain have two devices with a hub chip. Sometimes it's a sequence of turning on. The u18 should look like a dac when detected by the zen stream. 🤔🤔 

I have a ocxo clock that can do 45.1mhz 49.1 mhz so when an ifi diablo version has mqa via spdif come out, I'll spring for a sms500 with 45.1 + 49.1 bnc inputs. 😁😁 Wish I'm crafty enough to desolder the u18 internal Femto clocks and tap 45.1 49.1 too.


----------



## Crypt Keeper

801evan said:


> It officially runs okay on Roon as of today. Lol. But only on AIO mode with usb. Exclusive Roon mode is only spdif
> 
> 
> This is common behavior on the factory firmware. A lot have been resolved on later firmware updates. Yea some experience is needed to understand the quirks on the handshaking on the Zen. I initially found it very temperamental but seeing that a friend who is a total noob got it running without crying made me persevere.  And yes, I was burning in the zen stream playing files off a flash drive over night but it kept crapping out every few hours and the only solution is a reboot. I haven't done flash drive non stop playing since after the break in process because the SQ of playing local files over my phone streaming to the zen stream via WiFi is more than 2x the SQ jump. I need a long USB chain to have the local flash drive keep up but it still lags in performance.
> ...


Same here. I did a few Linux installs including Real Time Kernel and  had 0 problems. But just couldn't figure out "user-friendly"  Zen ) Yep the firmware upadate that was #1 thing I did, but still no luck )


----------



## 801evan

Crypt Keeper said:


> Same here. I did a few Linux installs including Real Time Kernel and  had 0 problems. But just couldn't figure out "user-friendly"  Zen ) Yep the firmware upadate that was #1 thing I did, but still no luck )


End of the day, seeing that you rely on local files, the UI of the ZS isn't sexy at all or intuitive enough. I'm testing the aune 8th anniversary streamer and using a 100usd ocxo from AliExpress. The benefit is I don't need to rely on wifi/BT for navigation because it has a remote and this will lower interference. Except my whole chain is down coz I went over .2amps by accident on my psu. 😂


----------



## MartinWT

I've ordered two more SR Purples for the U18.

I also have a Supra HD5 I2S cable coming, in order to compare with the excellent Blue Jeans FE.


----------



## milkdudd

MartinWT said:


> I've ordered two more SR Purples for the U18.
> 
> I also have a Supra HD5 I2S cable coming, in order to compare with the excellent Blue Jeans FE.


I hope you also got the free third fuse that they are offering. If yes and you won't be using it, tell me which one it is in a PM. Maybe I'll buy it from you


----------



## MartinWT

milkdudd said:


> I hope you also got the free third fuse that they are offering. If yes and you won't be using it, tell me which one it is in a PM. Maybe I'll buy it from you



No, because my UK supplier gives me a special price


----------



## milkdudd

MartinWT said:


> No, because my UK supplier gives me a special price


Oh I get it. The old wink and a nod 😉


----------



## SKR987

milkdudd said:


> It sounds like nobody has ever had a problem using the 630 ma slow blow fuse with the U18. If that's true, doesn't it make more sense to go that route instead of the 500 ma which would blow easier in a borderline surge? On a separate note I have a topping D90 (AKM version without MQA) that I was planning to sell because I'm not real pleased with it. I'm thinking now if I got a second U18 it might work wonders with that dac. I think I remember some have said the problem with that is it's USB input is flawed. Anyone know for sure?


I am using U18 with Topping D90SE. Some how I didn’t like D90SE on its own because it’s soundstage was much narrower compared to my earlier D90MQA (AKM Version) which I found more musical. But after adding U18 everything changed for good. Now my system is sounding fantastic with much bigger soundstage and musicality. It’s like listening to a different level.
One thing I wanted to know if anyone is using Denafrip Pontus 2 or Ares 2, that is U18 compatible with these two Denafrip DACs via I2S settings.
The sound of D90SE + U18 is extremely good using AES & I2S connections.
I am using Gustard I2S cable which is also very good indeed.


----------



## SKR987

kingoftown1 said:


> A good DDC will improve the D90 slightly, but it won't transform it into a new dac.


My D90SE has been transformed into a new much better DAC after adding U18.
The improvements are not subtle but are huge and visible to anyone who has listened .


----------



## T 1000 (Apr 21, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> I've ordered two more SR Purples for the U18.


It’s kind of scary to me to think, to fuses happen that what they were actually made for


----------



## tedacura1

MartinWT said:


> I've ordered two more SR Purples for the U18.
> 
> I also have a Supra HD5 I2S cable coming, in order to compare with the excellent Blue Jeans FE.


 how many and what size and amp fuse do the U18 take? I have a U18 on order. Thanks.


----------



## MartinWT

The U18 takes one 20mm 630mA slow blow fuse.

In the UK, we have to put one 1" fuse in the plug, too.


----------



## tedacura1

MartinWT said:


> The U18 takes one 20mm 630mA slow blow fuse.
> 
> In the UK, we have to put one 1" fuse in the plug, too.


I am in the USA


----------



## tedacura1

Do I have to install foobar2000 on my computer because I did not get a cd with the U18 and the Gustard download site only has the USB driver


----------



## T 1000

tedacura1 said:


> Do I have to install foobar2000 on my computer because I did not get a cd with the U18 and the Gustard download site only has the USB driver


USB driver is all you need. Download it to your computer, unpack and you're done. Plug the USB cable into your computer (I guess) and U18, and that's it, you can listen to music from You Tube or if you don't have a dedicated player, install Foobar which is a great free audio player


----------



## MartinWT

MartinWT said:


> The U18 takes one 20mm 630mA slow blow fuse.
> 
> In the UK, we have to put one 1" fuse in the plug, too.



I listened last night, replacing an SR Red in the plug and a Gustard in the U18 with 2 x SR Purple.
There is an extra sparkle of vividness, yet a reduction in sibilance.

This is the same magic as when I used a Purple in the X26 Pro.  Superb fuses.


----------



## motberg

The installation instructions require to disconnect and reconnect the USB cable after installation, but that did not work for me. 
I needed to power off/on the U18 for the U18 to ultimately be recognized by the computer.


----------



## T 1000 (Apr 25, 2022)

OK, not for this thread, but I want to share it with you.
Iso CAT 6, after the first warm-cold impression, is a must have filter.
The first impression is a significant expansion of the scene with layers of new insight with firmer bass, but with an irritating reflection. "S" is very uncomfortable, and all tones have a strong reflection.
Fascinating about this small device is the speed of sound maturation. After only a few hours, the glare disappeared and gave way to a constant tide of listening pleasure
Even more intriguing is the thought that the new- Iso CAT 7- is a better filter according to the manufacturers!
ADDED
All this is via computer, sms 200 I have not connected yet
Audirvana Studio still has the best performance, but the difference through the Tidal app has now narrowed


----------



## SKR987

I am thinking of buying Denafrip Ares 2 or Pontus 2. I wanted to know if these two DACs are compatible in Gustard U18 via I2S connection. Anyone using Denafrip DACs may be of help to me.


----------



## ihyan2

Using the Gustard u18 together with the C18 to drive the digital front end of the system. Also clock sync to the Uptone Etherregen (driving various DACs : Denafrips Terminator, Rockna Wavedream, Metrum Pavane). 
Really opens up the sound stage liking it a lot


----------



## mantraone

ihyan2 said:


> Using the Gustard u18 together with the C18 to drive the digital front end of the system. Also clock sync to the Uptone Etherregen (driving various DACs : Denafrips Terminator, Rockna Wavedream, Metrum Pavane).
> Really opens up the sound stage liking it a lot


Just a question about Rockna Wavedream and U18, it's works without issue? do you roon rock?

for me sound strange if wavedream works fine and wavelight have the 3 sample rate issue (48/24 96/24 192/24) and I need to re-samples by roon at 384/24.

wich I2s PINOUT setting do you have on U18?

Thanks for feedback


----------



## ihyan2

mantraone said:


> Just a question about Rockna Wavedream and U18, it's works without issue? do you roon rock?
> 
> for me sound strange if wavedream works fine and wavelight have the 3 sample rate issue (48/24 96/24 192/24) and I need to re-samples by roon at 384/24.
> 
> ...


For me  it works fine for any sample rate I play through it DSD64-128, any PCM sample rate (44/48/96/176) I use Lumin U1 mini streamer and user the lumin app. Tidal MQA  at 192 always gets down sample to 96 though although I think that's the Lumin doing that.

I use Gustard pin out although on the Wavedream I have to invert the phase and the L/R as it gets inverted... But other than that it's fine. 

The YouTube reviewer Goldensound explained that the phase/polarity is inverted when using the Wavedream which has the PS audio PIN out setting on the Gustard I2S pin out.


----------



## Larent

Hi everybody , i have got the purple Sr fuse, one question though, when i ve taken away the previous fuses, i found two fuses one " open " and another one in the " black hole " aside . As i do not have a clue how it works, what do we have to change, i think that they put two fuses the one open is the one which has to be used and the other one as reserve one ? Thanks for your help !


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Larent said:


> Hi everybody , i have got the purple Sr fuse, one question though, when i ve taken away the previous fuses, i found two fuses one " open " and another one in the " black hole " aside . As i do not have a clue how it works, what do we have to change, i think that they put two fuses the one open is the one which has to be used and the other one as reserve one ? Thanks for your help !


Yes,  2 fuses inside. The extra fuse is just a  spare ... 

Q: Are fuses directional?

A: Yes, fuses are directional.  Electricity should flow from the left to the right ( S ---> R)  when you view the fuse.  If you do not know the direction of flow you should listen to the fuse inserted in both directions.  One direction will sound more detailed.  This is the correct way.

Q:  Do fuses have a burn in period?

A: Yes, most products have a settling in period.  The first 200-300 hours of use are the most crucial.


----------



## Larent

Crypt Keeper said:


> Yes,  2 fuses inside. The extra fuse is just a  spare ...
> 
> Q: Are fuses directional?
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot !


----------



## SKR987

Just got two fuses Purple and put them in U18 and X 18.. I could feel the difference immediately even without burn in. Looks like a leap forward in sonic improvements


----------



## milkdudd (May 17, 2022)

Up until now I've been feeding flac files using UAPP and Amazon Ultra as they call it into my U18 via USB. From there I feed the i2s into my Gustard A22 dac. I've been happy overall but don't like the fact that Amazon upsamples everything to 192. Right or wrong, the way I see it is 44.1 doesn't divide into 192. With that said I saw the chance to try out the Tidal free trial. I like how it doesn't upsample automatically. I have downloaded the Android Tidal app so I can use that or UAPP. For the last couple of years I've been hearing people talk about MQA. How this unfolds that, and that unfolds this in a different way and didn't really care. However now I do. Based on the hardware I described above is there a preferred way to listen to Tidal when I'm streaming it via Wi-Fi to my Android? Thanks in advance


----------



## 801evan

milkdudd said:


> Up until now I've been feeding flac files using UAPP and Amazon Ultra as they call it into my U18 via USB. From there I feed the i2s into my Gustard A22 dac. I've been happy overall but don't like the fact that Amazon upsamples everything to 192. Right or wrong, the way I see it is 44.1 doesn't divide into 192. With that said I saw the chance to try out the Tidal free trial. I like how it doesn't upsample automatically. I have downloaded the Android Tidal app so I can use that or UAPP. For the last couple of years I've been hearing people talk about MQA. How this unfolds that, and that unfolds this in a different way and didn't really care. However now I do. Based on the hardware I described above is there a preferred way to listen to Tidal when I'm streaming it via Wi-Fi to my Android? Thanks in advance


Since gustard is a full decoder, best is mconnect as it grabs the master version of the album and doesn't decode. If you purchased the mqa plug in on UAPP like I did, it isn't reversible and will sound worse as any streamer doing first unfold always sounds worse than the dac doing the full decode. Mconnect is sonically cleaner anyways so it works out.


----------



## milkdudd

801evan said:


> Since gustard is a full decoder, best is mconnect as it grabs the master version of the album and doesn't decode. If you purchased the mqa plug in on UAPP like I did, it isn't reversible and will sound worse as any streamer doing first unfold always sounds worse than the dac doing the full decode. Mconnect is sonically cleaner anyways so it works out.


Okay thanks so much I had never heard of Mconnect. I learn something everyday, or at least I try. Now I need to know which app to download to my Android phone. I see there is Mconnect and also an HD version. My only interest is music if that matters. Not concerned about videos although it looks like one app does both. And thanks for warning me about the  UAPP plug in, if I'm describing it correctly. I almost downloaded that, figuring what's $3.99?


----------



## 801evan

milkdudd said:


> Okay thanks so much I had never heard of Mconnect. I learn something everyday, or at least I try. Now I need to know which app to download to my Android phone. I see there is Mconnect and also an HD version. My only interest is music if that matters. Not concerned about videos although it looks like one app does both. And thanks for warning me about the  UAPP plug in, if I'm describing it correctly. I almost downloaded that, figuring what's $3.99?


Well UAPP is good still for mqa full decoders if u haven't bought the plug in. U have the opportunity to compare both. Which I can't. U have to go through the rounds of optimizing UAPP too which can be rewarding. Proper buffer/Cache size always important. 

Also local file playback has been non-functional for me on mconnect. So I only use it for tidal.


----------



## milkdudd (May 17, 2022)

801evan said:


> Well UAPP is good still for mqa full decoders if u haven't bought the plug in. U have the opportunity to compare both. Which I can't. U have to go through the rounds of optimizing UAPP too which can be rewarding. Proper buffer/Cache size always important.
> 
> Also local file playback has been non-functional for me on mconnect. So I only use it for tidal.


Again, thanks for your help it's very much appreciated. And while I will continue to work with UAPP, I am still confused as to which version of Mconnect I would want to download. I guess my choice is between "Player"  and "Player HD" is this correct and which one would you suggest? Thanks again, I'd be lost without this forum and your guys help. Again I should state it's an Android phone not tablet


----------



## 801evan

milkdudd said:


> Again, thanks for your help it's very much appreciated. And while I will continue to work with UAPP, I am still confused as to which version of Mconnect I would want to download. I guess my choice is between "Player"  and "Player HD" is this correct and which one would you suggest? Thanks again, I'd be lost without this forum and your guys help. Again I should state it's an Android phone not tablet


I just bought the upgrade and didn't bother with comparing once I see it was functioning. I have also since moved to using a zen stream and mconnect works with that and since UAPP is not a UPNP, I can't use it anymore. I prefer it over HQplayer/pggb solutions.


----------



## milkdudd

801evan said:


> I just bought the upgrade and didn't bother with comparing once I see it was functioning. I have also since moved to using a zen stream and mconnect works with that and since UAPP is not a UPNP, I can't use it anymore. I prefer it over HQplayer/pggb solutions.


Okay thanks so much for all of your help


----------



## milkdudd (May 18, 2022)

I want to post this update in case anyone else has the same issue. It turns out the A22 can only process MQA through the USB input. I'm a little bummed because now I will have to connect the U18 to the A22 with a USB cable instead of i2s. I think that's still better than not using the U18. Do those of you who know a lot more about this stuff than I do agree with that? If yes, would


 I want to use a 1.5 m long cable to avoid "reflections"? As always, thanks in advance

Edit: I just looked closer at the U18 and I'm a bit shocked to see it doesn't have a USB out.


The attached screenshot is from Aoshida. I see there's an asterisk next to the statement. Anyone know if this could be incorrect and one of the other connections supports MQA?


----------



## 801evan

milkdudd said:


> I want to post this update in case anyone else has the same issue. It turns out the A22 can only process MQA through the USB input. I'm a little bummed because now I will have to connect the U18 to the A22 with a USB cable instead of i2s. I think that's still better than not using the U18. Do those of you who know a lot more about this stuff than I do agree with that? If yes, would I want to use a 1.5 m long cable to avoid "reflections"? As always, thanks in advance
> 
> Edit: I just looked closer at the U18 and I'm a bit shocked to see it doesn't have a USB out.
> The attached screenshot is from Aoshida. I see there's an asterisk next to the statement. Anyone know if this could be incorrect and one of the other connections supports MQA?


Oh that's right. Only the new ess chips takes in mqa via spdif. I don't think the new ones take in on i2s even due to the nature of the format. I love my ifi diablo and I still needed to buy a zen sig one to enjoy mqa via spdif. It's still relatively new where DACs can take in mqa via spdif. I2S, i haven't checked on that yet.


----------



## Rantenti

Matthew Willims said:


> Yes I’ve a Wireworld Starlight 7 on order for the I2S….. For the USB the best I’ve used is Gothic Audio Semperfi “The Outsider” pure silver….. Noticeably better than the Curious Evolved.


Indeed, very often silver cables sound better.
May I ask what other silver USB cables have you tried apart from the Gothic Outsider and what are your impressions?


----------



## Matthew Willims

Rantenti said:


> Indeed, very often silver cables sound better.
> May I ask what other silver USB cables have you tried apart from the Gothic Outsider and what are your impressions?


That’s the only pure silver USB cable I’ve tried. The others have all been coax or I2S cables, also clock cables…. Surprisingly I’ve found for I2S I much prefer Audiolund XTreme…. Tinned copper cables. These should theoretically be appalling for a digital cable but in practice they just add a certain richness and naturalness with improved timbre on human voices.


----------



## Metron

Hi everyone,
Has anyone compared the *Gustard U18* with the *Matrix X-SPDIF 2* and *iFi Micro iUSB*? I'm also particularly interested on their _toslink_ and _coax_ output, not IIS.
Regards,


----------



## doitttt (May 25, 2022)

*Matrix X-SPDIF 2, not so good
iFi Micro iUSB ,is waste of money , does not provide ,anything for usb*

right now I am, by trying topping d10 balance.
it was a surprise how good the sound is
in relation to gustard u18
topping d10 balance has jitter at 10ps measured on ap-x555
almost as good as Audiophilleo
the best of the whole topping d10 balance costs 130dollars
or 123 euro


----------



## Metron

doitttt said:


> *Matrix X-SPDIF 2, not so good
> iFi Micro iUSB ,is waste of money , does not provide ,anything for usb*
> 
> right now I am, by trying topping d10 balance.
> ...


Thanks for your reply. I’ve watched two reviews from established audio YT channels, and D10s was clearly making sound worse, and iFi was making a very marked improvement. My question was in relation to U18.


----------



## iFi audio

Metron said:


> and iFi was making a very marked improvement.



That's the consistent feedback we've been getting. Very few people were unhappy with it micro iUSB3.0, but to clarify, the noisier a USB line is, the more that reclocker/regenerator does.


----------



## doitttt

relation to gustard u18 and between topping d10 balance it is straightforward.
topping d10s in ratio, topping d10 balance
topping d10 balance improved a lot, signal noise ratio, has come up to 121db, 6db improved, as well as jitter come down with 10 db -160db
gustard u18 has an advantage using xmos 216
here are review
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/topping-d10-balanced-review-usb-dac.25094/


----------



## doitttt

to ifi audio 
micro iUSB3.0, are waste of money
I found another solution.
idefender as well as xpower, for the laptop, I use it, now use now.
clean power, are key words here


----------



## Metron

iFi audio said:


> That's the consistent feedback we've been getting. Very few people were unhappy with it micro iUSB3.0, but to clarify, the noisier a USB line is, the more that reclocker/regenerator does.


The problem with iFi is that it is not easy at all to find it. Is it discontinued?


----------



## Matthew Willims

Moved to a Soundaware D300REF recently.... After about 4 days burn in it's already equaling what I was getting with my LPS powered mini PC, Gustard U18 + Afterdark Emperor Double Crown OCXO clock..... Far more expensive though it turns out worth the extra $. I'll be adding an Afterdark 3 output Emperor Double Crown to the mix in the coming weeks as well which should improve things still further.

But yeah, loved my U18 but the D300REF at about 4x the cost is clearly the better performer..... Likely because the Roon Bridge is built in though I find the USB input to be every bit as good also.


----------



## 801evan

Matthew Willims said:


> Moved to a Soundaware D300REF recently.... After about 4 days burn in it's already equaling what I was getting with my LPS powered mini PC, Gustard U18 + Afterdark Emperor Double Crown OCXO clock..... Far more expensive though it turns out worth the extra $. I'll be adding an Afterdark 3 output Emperor Double Crown to the mix in the coming weeks as well which should improve things still further.
> 
> But yeah, loved my U18 but the D300REF at about 4x the cost is clearly the better performer..... Likely because the Roon Bridge is built in though I find the USB input to be every bit as good also.


Nice. I've been close to buying one but it lacks reviews. Some ppl were underwhelmed with the UI. 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Can u add the u18 in the chain?


----------



## Matthew Willims (May 26, 2022)

801evan said:


> Nice. I've been close to buying one but it lacks reviews. Some ppl were underwhelmed with the UI. 🤔🤔🤔🤔
> 
> Can u add the u18 in the chain?


UI almost non-existent. I only got it to switch between Roon streamer for music and USB interface for the media PC for video. This not just does away with Roon taking over the audio interface necessitating a reboot but also seems to give a very nice improvement sonically. The first few days of burn in I was wondering what on earth I was thinking but inside of a week it is matching what I achieved for a similar cost. I imagine it will continue to improve.

It seems integration of the streamer has greater sonic benefits than the Afterdark Emperor Double Crown clock I ran with the U18. Unfortunately the D300REF doesn't use 10MHz clock inputs so a new clock is on order. That _should_ improve things still further.

One thing that has been obvious from the beginning is how much more impact it adds to bass though initially is seems a bit thin and edgy in the treble region, not natural. Thankfully that has now gone away and it's just getting better and better the more I use it.

No point adding the U18 to the chain hey as the Soundaware actually sounds better and also has it's own USB interface


----------



## 801evan

Matthew Willims said:


> UI almost non-existent. I only got it to switch between Roon streamer for music and USB interface for the media PC for video. This not just does away with Roon taking over the audio interface necessitating a reboot but also seems to give a very nice improvement sonically. The first few days of burn in I was wondering what on earth I was thinking but inside of a week it is matching what I achieved for a similar cost. I imagine it will continue to improve.
> 
> It seems integration of the streamer has greater sonic benefits than the Afterdark Emperor Double Crown clock I ran with the U18. Unfortunately the D300REF doesn't use 10MHz clock inputs so a new clock is on order. That _should_ improve things still further.
> 
> One thing that has been obvious from the beginning is how much more impact it adds to bass though initially is seems a bit thin and edgy in the treble region, not natural. Thankfully that has now gone away and it's just getting better and better the more I use it.


Oh wait let's start again, can u clarify if ur using the d300ref as a ddc or as a streamer?


----------



## Matthew Willims

801evan said:


> Oh wait let's start again, can u clarify if ur using the d300ref as a ddc or as a streamer?



I'm using it for both. Roon network streamer for music, and USB input when watching video via the media PC.


----------



## 801evan

And yea. That's the thing...I was interested in the 300ref coz it's compatible with my ocxo. I think my soundwarrior ocxo is better than the after dark since I power it with the ifi elite + dxpwr combo. If future ddc by gustard has that option...omg


----------



## 801evan

Matthew Willims said:


> I'm using it for both. Roon network streamer for music, and USB input when watching video via the media PC.


Right...while not final, can you rank what's best for you? Roon + 300ref, 300ref as streamer, u18, 300ref as streamer + u18.


----------



## Matthew Willims (May 26, 2022)

801evan said:


> And yea. That's the thing...I was interested in the 300ref coz it's compatible with my ocxo. I think my soundwarrior ocxo is better than the after dark since I power it with the ifi elite + dxpwr combo. If future ddc by gustard has that option...omg



Yeah, I was powering mine with the Farad Super3 LPS but the one I have coming has power built in.

Right now with 4 days burn in the Soundaware as streamer is even with U18 + Farad Super3 LPS power Afterdark Emperor Double Crown which is impressive seeing as there's plenty of burn in required still. The U18 took about a month or so to get to its best so I expect this will be no different.


----------



## 801evan

Matthew Willims said:


> Yeah, I was powering mine with the Farad Super3 LPS but the one I have coming has power built in.


Yes. Its the only option they got and I couldn't commit to it. They gave me the specs where I can do custom but the soundwarrior is more convenient as I don't need a dedicated build.


----------



## Matthew Willims (May 26, 2022)

801evan said:


> Yes. Its the only option they got and I couldn't commit to it. They gave me the specs where I can do custom but the soundwarrior is more convenient as I don't need a dedicated build.


Just looked it up. Very good price but description is a bit light on details like phase distortion etc..... No mention of it at all actually. Not right for the Soundaware either was as that required 50ohm inputs.


----------



## 801evan

Matthew Willims said:


> Just looked it up. Very good price but description is a bit light on details like phase distortion etc..... No mention of it at all actually. Not right for the Soundaware either was as that required 50ohm inputs.



Those 50/75ohms stuff don't really hold up in the real world. I've tried on spec cables and my builds are better and it's a twisted pair design. There is no phase but the manual says .001ppm but so better psu can easily trump a unit with better phase noise performance.


----------



## Matthew Willims

801evan said:


> Those 50/75ohms stuff don't really hold up in the real world. I've tried on spec cables and my builds are better and it's a twisted pair design. There is no phase but the manual says .001ppm but so better psu can easily trump a unit with better phase noise performance.


Interesting, will have to try my existing 75ohm Farad Super3 powered Afterdark Emperor Double Crown with the D300REF


----------



## 801evan (May 26, 2022)

Matthew Willims said:


> Interesting, will have to try my existing 75ohm Farad Super3 powered Afterdark Emperor Double Crown with the D300REF


It is bizarre if one follows the philosophy of what's within spec. My design is a 4 core 20awg solid occ silver twisted cable design. A derivative of my digital cable build. I reckon to give it a shot but expected the two core per signal design might muck the accuracy but it didn't.

Plug quality matters too! So do adapters! I used an adapter and it gave the same response as me using an adapter on interconnects or HP to amp. It's this slower thicker sound that's rolled odd. Just on cable that's delivering clock data. It's crazy.

There's also that thing of 1.5m is the minimum to resist reflections but that isn't true in real world usage...shorter is still better.


----------



## vassago

hi all, i ordered a gustard fuse for my u18.  I would like to ask how thefuse should be oriented as it has an arrow.  for the gustard x26pro there is an image, but for the u18 I have not found anything. Thx for the reply


----------



## Highfive99

vassago said:


> hi all, i ordered a gustard fuse for my u18.  I would like to ask how thefuse should be oriented as it has an arrow.  for the gustard x26pro there is an image, but for the u18 I have not found anything. Thx for the reply


I have both U18 and X26p and fuse orientation is the same for both.


----------



## tedacura1

vassago said:


> hi all, i ordered a gustard fuse for my u18.  I would like to ask how thefuse should be oriented as it has an arrow.  for the gustard x26pro there is an image, but for the u18 I have not found anything. Thx for the reply


----------



## T 1000 (May 27, 2022)

tedacura1 said:


>


"S" -down or up ?


----------



## tedacura1

T 1000 said:


> "S" -down or up ?


look @ the first picture and put the fuse in the holder exactly as shown then put the fuse holder back into the equipment the way it fits


----------



## T 1000 (May 27, 2022)

tedacura1 said:


> look @ the first picture and put the fuse in the holder exactly as shown then put the fuse holder back into the equipment the way it fits


Can you make yours description clearer to me.
In the image you use for the manual is not -U18-
The U18 fuse holder is upright and the device in the picture is in a horizontal position. Does this mean that the U18 "S" should be down position?


----------



## Highfive99

T 1000 said:


> Can you make yours description clearer to me.
> In the image you use for the manual is not -U18-
> The U18 fuse holder is upright and the device in the picture is in a horizontal position. Does this mean that the U18 "S" should be down position?


Seriously dude?  The fuse holder only goes in 1 way. Put fuse in the holder as in the pic. Then install fuse holder. It ain't rocket science.


----------



## T 1000 (May 27, 2022)

"dude," my fuse works in full, and I don't want to turn off my U18 to look in the direction.
a question has been asked that needs to be answered clearly.
Read again


vassago said:


> hi all, i ordered a gustard fuse for my u18.  I would like to ask how thefuse should be oriented as it has an arrow.  for the gustard x26pro there is an image, but for the u18 I have not found anything. Thx for the reply


dude
It is obvious from the text that @vassago saw that picture and that it does not help him, and I honestly don't understand you either


----------



## T 1000

My question "S" is down, answer yes or no, and everything is clear to everyone


----------



## vassago

indeed the picture is clear for fitting a gustard fuse with arrow in the dac x26 pro.  if the fuse holder is the same in the u18 I will mount the fuse taking an example from the image and considering the socket vertically and not horizontally.


----------



## T 1000 (May 28, 2022)

vassago said:


> indeed the picture is clear for fitting a gustard fuse with arrow in the dac x26 pro.  if the fuse holder is the same in the u18 I will mount the fuse taking an example from the image and considering the socket vertically and not horizontally.


I hope that such logic works. I don't like the fact that there is too much logic around the direction.
On the box where the fuse was, the only instruction was not to detach the small circle on the fuse, nothing about the "S" input and the "R" output (logic again).
Instead of all that logic, I would use my own, set the fuse anyway and listen to a song you know well, turn the fuse and listen to the song again. Such logic has a better foothold  

Have a great day


----------



## MartinWT

Pull the fuse holder out. Use a test meter and listen for the beep of short circuit between the two fuse contacts and the two IEC connector pins (not the larger ground pin). When you get a beep, that is the live pin connecting to the live input of the fuse. The arrow therefore points away from that fuse contact.

Entirely logical.


----------



## T 1000 (May 28, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> Извуците држач осигурача. Користите тест мерач и слушајте да ли постоји кратки спој између два контакта осигурача и два пина ИЕЦ конектора (не већи пин за уземљење). Када добијете звучни сигнал, то је пин који се повезује са живим улазом осигурача. Стрелица стога показује даље од контакта осигурача.
> 
> Потпуно логично.


logically


----------



## w00ha

vassago said:


> hi all, i ordered a gustard fuse for my u18.  I would like to ask how thefuse should be oriented as it has an arrow.  for the gustard x26pro there is an image, but for the u18 I have not found anything. Thx for the reply


I put a Gustard fuse in my U18 last friday. 
The direction (arrow on fuse) is UP.


----------



## mocarver

T 1000 said:


> There are no direction signs on the fuse, no worries, you can't go wrong


Hi, I recently received The U18 and would like to buy the purple fuse.  Would you indicate the buying information I need to obtain the correct fuse?  Thx in advance..


----------



## T 1000

mocarver said:


> Hi, I recently received The U18 and would like to buy the purple fuse.  Would you indicate the buying information I need to obtain the correct fuse?  Thx in advance..


Hello @mocarver, welcome to the club
Mine is 5-20 mm, T630mA (slow blow), but I came across information that 1.6mA is better for American current, which I cannot confirm with certainty.
I invite other users of Purple fuses from the American continent to give their opinion.
Enjoy the upgrade


----------



## tedacura1

mocarver said:


> Hi, I recently received The U18 and would like to buy the purple fuse.  Would you indicate the buying information I need to obtain the correct fuse?  Thx in advance..




Fuse info for the U18


----------



## mocarver

tedacura1 said:


> Fuse info for the U18


Thx


----------



## SKR987

T 1000 said:


> Hello @mocarver, welcome to the club
> Mine is 5-20 mm, T630mA (slow blow), but I came across information that 1.6mA is better for American current, which I cannot confirm with certainty.
> I invite other users of Purple fuses from the American continent to give their opinion.
> Enjoy the upgrade


A friend from Hongkong said that 1A purple fuse is popularly used there for a Asian 230Vower supply. Again cannot confirm anything. Just an opinion.


----------



## T 1000

SKR987 said:


> A friend from Hongkong said that 1A purple fuse is popularly used there for a Asian 230Vower supply. Again cannot confirm anything. Just an opinion.


I don't have any reliable knowledge, but somewhere in my memory I extracted the data I read


Crypt Keeper said:


> On the fuse it says 250 V, so I think you should be fine with 500 mA… Some manufacturers recommend less Amperage with higher Voltage . This from Farad 3 LPS Manual on fuses: “we recommend using a 800mA slow blow 5x20 for 230Vac versions and a 1.6A slow for 115Vac input versions”


so it is not out of place to check and use the correct amperage


----------



## T 1000 (Jun 2, 2022)

In Pegasus DAC, one fuse is used for European electricity and two fuses for 115V


----------



## Metron

iFi audio said:


> That's the consistent feedback we've been getting. Very few people were unhappy with it micro iUSB3.0, but to clarify, the noisier a USB line is, the more that reclocker/regenerator does.


Can you tell me, please, if there is any sonic difference between the Nano iUSB3.0 and the Nano iGalvanic3.0 USB? The only apparent operating difference is that the former has the option of an external power supply.


----------



## ChJL

So I think about adding a U18 or other DDC/USB interface also because i2s.
What about it, why is it favoured by many?

An i2s cable shouldn´t be longer than max. 30cm because:

*The i2s interface is the UNIVERSAL Internal Interface for all DACs.
Since it is primarily an internal interface, its signals were never desigend to be carried over long lenghts of wire of from one box (transport) to another (DAC). 
Long wire lengths with their inductance & capaciteances will corrupt the digi*_*tal signals*_.

What to do with such a statement?
Thanks!


----------



## LucyWu (Jun 30, 2022)

Whilst this statement is technically correct it is misapplied when discussing the connection between a DDC and DAC over an hdmi formatted link.

This is because the IIS bus is terminated in a LVDS transmitter in the DDC which creates a robust differential signal carried across the hdmi cable (typically though RJ45 cables can also be used) to the LVDS receiver in the DAC where it is recovered to the IIS format for receipt at the input to the doc chip or fpga for processing. Without the LVDS link the signal's integrity would be compromised over a metre or more of wire.

IIS over LVDS is probably more robust than SPDIF.

FYI - I'm listening to a U18 feeding 705.6k data to a X26Pro and it is pretty fantastic (1 week on the U18, 2 on the DAC). No problems with the IIS using a bog-standard HDMI cable.


----------



## ChJL

JaMo said:


> Hi, Here comes an advice. If You are going to add an External XO be prepared to pick a really good one. I should say with a phase noise measurement from -117dB/1Hz or better (=towards lower value: -118dB/1Hz...). They are pricy but After dark list them for decent money. In Your case I should also recommend You to pick one with three outputs so You can feed the both the U18 and the X26pro and maybe a later gear for You with the same refined time pulse.
> 
> But if You are on a stricter budget enjoy Your present rig and save up to a good external OCXO. I am seeing the very good but expensive master clock as a long term investment that will help to rise the level of my present and possible coming gears. In my case I chose the Mutec Ref10 for the square wave outputs and the many outputs (2x 50Ohm and 6x 75Ohm) knowing I will add gears in the future that can handle the 10MHz master clock signal and benefit with excellence from it.
> 
> ...





JaMo said:


> They are pricy but After dark list them for decent money. In Your case I should also recommend You to pick one with three outputs so You can feed the both the U18 and the X26pro and maybe a later gear for You with the same refined time pulse.


I thought when one adds an U18 (with or without an external Clock) the Clock in the DAC doesn't do anything anylonger...?


----------



## ChJL

LucyWu said:


> Whilst this statement is technically correct it is misapplied when discussing the connection between a DDC and DAC over an hdmi formatted link.
> 
> This is because the IIS bus is terminated in a LVDS transmitter in the DDC which creates a robust differential signal carried across the hdmi cable (typically though RJ45 cables can also be used) to the LVDS receiver in the DAC where it is recovered to the IIS format for receipt at the input to the doc chip or fpga for processing. Without the LVDS link the signal's integrity would be compromised over a metre or more of wire.
> 
> ...


Makes sense but in German would be better...
Anyway I also have a X26 pro.
What's a bog-standard HDMI cable? 
I am looking for a good cable when going the U18 route...


----------



## LucyWu

ChJL said:


> Makes sense but in German would be better...
> Anyway I also have a X26 pro.
> What's a bog-standard HDMI cable?
> I am looking for a good cable when going the U18 route...


Sorry - "bog standard" means cheap, basic, common-or-garden variety.
I should indeed be able to tell you this in German - half my team is German.

There are a good cables for this link - Blue Jeans, Wireworld, maybe even the Gustard cable. Shorter is still a better option than longer. I am using a 1m basic cable right now until I decide what better option to buy. Pink Faun make a good but expensive cable, Magna Hifi stock it usually. Depends how much you want to spend.

I hope this helps a little.


----------



## MartinWT

Blue Jeans FE 30cm cable between U18 and X26 Pro here.


----------



## MartinWT

ChJL said:


> I thought when one adds an U18 (with or without an external Clock) the Clock in the DAC doesn't do anything anylonger...?



Yes, that's correct.  You only need a clock into the U18 provided you are using the I2S interface.


----------



## LucyWu

On the subject of clocking, Martin, you have a lot of experience I think. I am looking towards adding a ref clock to my Gustard pairing (U18 & X26Pro). Is the lower level AfterDark version worthwhile or should I go further up the range (or even the Mutec Ref10...). I am liking the sound the Gustard set up is delivering (after only a shortish running in) even though my current main dac is Chord Dave, and from initial cable swaps the U18 seems very able to pick up the slightest change (a USB cable or mains cable swap is clearly discernable). That can be a good thing or bad  - another rabbit hole to disappear into.

Any thoughts on clock options happily received.


----------



## JaMo (Jul 1, 2022)

LucyWu said:


> On the subject of clocking, Martin, you have a lot of experience I think. I am looking towards adding a ref clock to my Gustard pairing (U18 & X26Pro). Is the lower level AfterDark version worthwhile or should I go further up the range (or even the Mutec Ref10...). I am liking the sound the Gustard set up is delivering (after only a shortish running in) even though my current main dac is Chord Dave, and from initial cable swaps the U18 seems very able to pick up the slightest change (a USB cable or mains cable swap is clearly discernable). That can be a good thing or bad  - another rabbit hole to disappear into.
> 
> Any thoughts on clock options happily received.


I jump in on this. I am using U18+X26Pro with Mutec 10 SE120. They both benefit very well on the better external oscillator. I think You should save up and aim for at least a -117dBc/1Hz from After Dark (Emperor DOUBLE CROWN*)* to get a good result. The K2 synthesizer in both U18 and X26Pro is doing a good job as they come and to get a higher performance You must pay up a bit. otherwise the "smaller" money not well spent. I use Gustard's own HDMI cable and it is a good match. I can absolutely recommend it.


----------



## ChJL

LucyWu said:


> Sorry - "bog standard" means cheap, basic, common-or-garden variety.
> I should indeed be able to tell you this in German - half my team is German.
> 
> There are a good cables for this link - Blue Jeans, Wireworld, maybe even the Gustard cable. Shorter is still a better option than longer. I am using a 1m basic cable right now until I decide what better option to buy. Pink Faun make a good but expensive cable, Magna Hifi stock it usually. Depends how much you want to spend.
> ...


Yes it did, the LVDS info! Alright, what's your team for? (Just curious...)
I get the basic info in English no problem!

So would you agree that the USB cable from streamer to the DDC doesn't matter as much  as the i2s from the U18 to one's DAC?

I'm tempted by a silver solid core air insulated Tubulus from the Netherlands... Just have to decide if the cable should be more then half of the U18.


----------



## ChJL

MartinWT said:


> Blue Jeans FE 30cm cable between U18 and X26 Pro here.


Shipping from the US, inconvenient...


----------



## ChJL

MartinWT said:


> Yes, that's correct.  You only need a clock into the U18 provided you are using the I2S interface.


Thanks! Just didn't get why JaMo advise to get a clock with 3 outs to supply U18 AND X26 pro parallel.


----------



## JaMo (Jul 1, 2022)

ChJL said:


> Thanks! Just didn't get why JaMo advise to get a clock with 3 outs to supply U18 AND X26 pro parallel.


Yes, You are right, You can use a single output oscillator for the U18+X26Pro and the time signal will be transferred via I2S If You use (HDMI). To get the X26Pro dac to use a the Master clock pulse when the other inputs are used it need its own BNC-cable from the EXT XO. And...I like to invest in devices with options for further future changes (/expansions). A Master clock is costly so why limit it? I plan to use my Mutec Ref10 SE120 for a long time with many different audio-gears. Today the Mutec Ref10 provides time pulse also to a Audio-gd DI20HE, a R7HE Mk2 and to a Mutec MC3+USB. So 5 outputs used by now out of the eight possible ones.
I hope this explains why I answered as I did.
/Jan


----------



## LucyWu

ChJL said:


> Yes it did, the LVDS info! Alright, what's your team for? (Just curious...)
> I get the basic info in English no problem!
> 
> So would you agree that the USB cable from streamer to the DDC doesn't matter as much  as the i2s from the U18 to one's DAC?
> ...


Hi
USB Cable is still important, but there are many more choices I think for USB cable. I am trying to keep all cables to short lengths where possible. I think it helps.
I admit I am uncomfortable spending as much or more on a cable as a piece of electronics. (So maybe the answer is buy very expensive electronics then cable prices are more in proportion!)

For the IIS link I think you should start with something that at least meets 4k video speed requirements (data rates may not be high for two channels of audio but IIS carries Master Clock and Bit Clock also and now we're well into rf signal territory so good cable specs are a must because if you're controlling the DAC timing from the DDC clock integrity of the masterclock signal is important).

(Since you were curious, I manage an EMEA-wide tech consulting team for datacentre customers of a global networking company. My team are based right across Europe and Middle East.)


----------



## mantraone

LucyWu said:


> Hi
> ....
> 
> For the IIS link I think you should start with something that at least meets 4k video speed requirements (data rates may not be high for two channels of audio but IIS carries Master Clock and Bit Clock also and now we're well into rf signal territory so good cable specs are a must because if you're controlling the DAC timing from the DDC clock integrity of the masterclock signal is important).
> ...


I tried some commecatial HDMI Video 4K and 8K , it works, but as I2s Audio (or IIs) nothing sound better than the Gustard HDMI I2s Cable, for a very good price around 60 Euro.


----------



## MartinWT

LucyWu said:


> On the subject of clocking, Martin, you have a lot of experience I think. I am looking towards adding a ref clock to my Gustard pairing (U18 & X26Pro). Is the lower level AfterDark version worthwhile or should I go further up the range (or even the Mutec Ref10...). I am liking the sound the Gustard set up is delivering (after only a shortish running in) even though my current main dac is Chord Dave, and from initial cable swaps the U18 seems very able to pick up the slightest change (a USB cable or mains cable swap is clearly discernable). That can be a good thing or bad  - another rabbit hole to disappear into.
> 
> Any thoughts on clock options happily received.



I have two clocks, my lesser one is an AfterDark King which runs my EtherREGEN before the optical run. My main clock is the superb AfterDark Emperor Triple Crown, which runs the Gustard U18/X26 Pro combo. It's very important to use a low noise power supply and good clock cable. My Coherent QP-1 12V supercap PSU and Belden 4694R cable really help performance, as well as Black Ravioli footers and a Schramm weight.

Vibration control is essential for the clock so don't skimp on it.

Frankly, it makes mincemeat of the built-in clock, giving a huge soundstage, great note decay and metronomic timing.


----------



## MartinWT

ChJL said:


> So would you agree that the USB cable from streamer to the DDC doesn't matter as much  as the i2s from the U18 to one's DAC?



I think they're both very important cables and I've tried many before settling on my ideals:
Blue Jeans FE I2S cable
Mad Scientist Black Magic USB cable


----------



## JaMo (Jul 1, 2022)

I jump in again. Like @MartinWT said the quality of the power supply for the oscillator is equal important as the oscillator itself. It has to be very silent with the lowest noise possible. Vibrations must be prevented as well. (My REF10 SE120 is standing on a dual soft rubber mat). Another important parameter is the impedance match of the cables and connectors of the BNC cable used for the time pulse. If You like me use a square wave pulse the impedance matching is key. (You can ruin the performance with an impedance miss-match) meaning; - You will not get the most out of Your expensive rig. Sine wave isn't that tricky to use and is more tolerant to less perfect impedance matching.
I use the Semper Fi Outsider USB cable and as said Gustard's own HDMI cable 0.5M. Crazy cheap and an excellent match!


----------



## LucyWu

JaMo & Martin

Thanks for the input. After many years in the networks and telecomms field, I am all too aware of the issues of impedance mismatching and the behaviour of high frequency signallying, but always good to keep these matters in the foreground. I have been using a 50cm run of Artisan Silver Cables USB which has worked well with the Dave/SRC-DX setup, and it as the U18 settles down (it's only got a week's run-in so far) I can hear it's performing OK but given that swapping it out for an old Audioquest jobbie I had lying around, differences are easy to detect. This Gustard pairing are crazy revealing in pure information terms, so a better USB cable is something to plan for when the kit's settled down.

My whole library is upsampled to 16fs using PGGB with a little EQ to match up to my Raal SR1a's, so the data's flying over the I2S link. It's sounding really good tonight, so the thought of further big gains in overall presentation with a good clock is exciting.

Again, your insights are much appreciated.


----------



## MartinWT

ChJL said:


> Shipping from the US, inconvenient...


It took one week.


----------



## doitttt (Jul 3, 2022)

has done listening tests, with the neumann 310a, some of the best studio monitor in the world
I found out, after testing hdmi and aes \ ebu as well as coax
found out spif toslink, sounds best.
SUPRA ZAC TOSLINK OPTICAL 1 meters
hdmi makes some sound surfaces, of the sound, even if one altra max 2
supra zac toslink because it is optical, there is no noise,
better bass and treble and very lifelike.
but the best thing is the 3d sound, gets spread out better sound image.
I use gustard a22 and gustard u18.
i use 10mhz clock from cybershaft.
even Noise floor is down -140 db, the jitter cannot be heard.
so some say hdmi is better, with jitter, it is not.
it is measured on


----------



## ChJL

Highfive99 said:


> IMHO best bang for the Gustard buck is U18+X26pro and both with good power cords and SR purple fuses.


If you would go for/start with only one upgrade... Power or Fuses which would it be?


----------



## T 1000 (Jul 4, 2022)

ChJL said:


> If you would go for/start with only one upgrade... Power or Fuses which would it be?


In my case, the power cord.
I had it before by inserting the violet, I was fascinated by the organic sound with new details which he introduced to violets.
I don't know if it would have the same impact without the power cord.
I later had the same fascination with SOtM Iso-Cat 6 by placing it in a line


----------



## ChJL

Do you users of a U18 or other DDC play from a computer/Laptop or dedicated streamer (Auralic, SotM,...)?
I am debating if a DDC makes "enough" difference when one uses a streamer with an optimised, clean USB out(+good usb cable) vs a computer/Laptop!


----------



## MartinWT

ChJL said:


> Do you users of a U18 or other DDC play from a computer/Laptop or dedicated streamer (Auralic, SotM,...)?



Dedicated streamer - a Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical.  Yes, the U18 still contributes to the excellent sound.  Running USB into the X26 Pro is not quite as good.

As for the streamer itself, it's massively better than using any laptop.  If you're interested in true high-end sound, you need a streamer.


----------



## T 1000

ChJL said:


> Do you users of a U18 or other DDC play from a computer/Laptop or dedicated streamer (Auralic, SotM,...)?
> I am debating if a DDC makes "enough" difference when one uses a streamer with an optimised, clean USB out(+good usb cable) vs a computer/Laptop!


For an entry-level streamer (SMS 200 NEO), Audirvana Studio -INakustik Reference USB 2.0-U18, gives me a richer experience.
When using Audirvana Studio, it uses 10GB-12GB of RAM.


----------



## T 1000

Of course, when you insert a higher-quality streamer into the system, the signal passes through much higher-quality components inside the streamer, and no matter how good the software is, it cannot match that.


----------



## Vinceten91 (Jul 10, 2022)

Hello the Gustard Team, an advice for a power cable with the U18 ?


----------



## doitttt

try this cabel
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...al-cable-olflex-110cy-3x25mm-220m-p-5142.html


----------



## fanteskiller

Hello the Gustard Team, an advice for a coaxial cable with the U18 ?


----------



## JaMo

fanteskiller said:


> Hello the Gustard Team, an advice for a coaxial cable with the U18 ?


I'm not from the Gustard Team but You have to narrow down Your question... -Coax cable for SPDIF (RCA 75 Ohm)? or for Master clock (BNC 50 Ohm)? or for Word Clock ( BNC 75 Ohm)?


----------



## T 1000 (Jul 11, 2022)

Vinceten91 said:


> Hello the Gustard Team, an advice for a power cable with the U18 ?


I'm not from the Gustard team either
I think that buying a power cable that costs less than 300e/m is a waste of money. I would advise you to do a little research on various user experience forums and finally buy a cable that you like on the used market. Be aware that there are Power cables for digital processing and power cables for amplifiers, for example, I bought a Tellurium Q Black and connected it to U18 instead of the Swisscables that had been connected until then, I was disappointed with what I heard, instead of everything sounding better, everything was worse, when I found out that the Black cable is intended for amplifiers and when I replaced the previous cable with Black, the spotlights on the stage shone.
Why I think that a cheap cable is a waste of money, because a good cable must have quality contacts, good protection from external influences as well as good quality of the wire in it, and the lack of any of these components of the cable greatly affects the sound.
The effect of a good power cable on the sound is amazing
When you add a purple fuse to a good power cable, the door to your perception opens wide


----------



## doitttt

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...al-cable-olflex-110cy-3x25mm-220m-p-5142.html
why post money, in very expensive powercable.
the basics of power is how thick the conductor is.
2.5 mm and raw core, are exposed to emi / rfi.
a well shielded 2.5mm core, in powercable
to 40euro for 2 meters
which does the same thing, as a powercable, for 1000dollars
is there point here


----------



## MartinWT

Shielding is not the full story.  A very well EMI and RFI proof power cable is not shielded, it's braided in a particular way.  My cables are expensive but they do sound better than any other cable, and I've tried many.


----------



## T 1000 (Jul 12, 2022)

I don't understand the architecture of the cable, but I know that in my system, of all the cables that changed the sound picture for the better, some more conspicuously, some less conspicuously, the power supplies did it the most.Their impact on fullness of sound, increased resolution and appearance of new details make them a star of influence.


doitttt said:


> https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...al-cable-olflex-110cy-3x25mm-220m-p-5142.html
> why post money, in very expensive powercable.
> the basics of power is how thick the conductor is.
> 2.5 mm and raw core, are exposed to emi / rfi.
> ...


In the offer of many cable workshops, there are power cables of the basic level whose price is, for example, 300e/m and up to dizzying sums, there is a good reason for that. The 300e ones are excellent, while for the very expensive ones I can only fantasize about their influence.
I had a power cable IsoTek (I still have it but I don't use it) from 60e and AudioQuest from 200e which did nothing to my ears.
That's why I follow my philosophy


----------



## JaMo

To annoy You further I made my own high performance cables by using a copper installation cable of 10AWG cable and using 2x 10AWG for Line and 2x10. 'AWG Neutral and 1x 10 AWG for Ground gnd. Braided them and wrapped the braid with alu-foil tape and over it duck tape. A nice sleeve with a nylon braid is nice for the looks. After a burn in time of around 2-3 weeks, it shines over the the full spectrum. Good luck.


----------



## T 1000 (Jul 12, 2022)

Well done, I think you could make some more and make some money for yourself
When you have knowledge and will, then it is the most profitable


----------



## fanteskiller

JaMo said:


> I'm not from the Gustard Team but You have to narrow down Your question... -Coax cable for SPDIF (RCA 75 Ohm)? or for Master clock (BNC 50 Ohm)? or for Word Clock ( BNC 75 Ohm)?


Coax cable for SPDIF (RCA 75 Ohm) any recomandation?


----------



## JaMo

fanteskiller said:


> Coax cable for SPDIF (RCA 75 Ohm) any recomandation?


I have tested many cables and the Japanese Oyade is a champion. I use the BNC version but I am confident this RCA cable of 1.3m is one of the best out there.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/cabl...5-ohm-102ssc-rhodium-plated-13m--p-11409.html

You can go with a shorter cable but it is recommended to have over 1.2m length. Shorter SPDIF cable can get "mirroring" problems and therefore introduce jitter and we don't want that. 
/Jan


----------



## T 1000 (Jul 13, 2022)

JaMo said:


> To annoy You further I made my own high performance cables by using a copper installation cable of 10AWG cable and using 2x 10AWG for Line and 2x10. 'AWG Neutral and 1x 10 AWG for Ground gnd. Braided them and wrapped the braid with alu-foil tape and over it duck tape. A nice sleeve with a nylon braid is nice for the looks. After a burn in time of around 2-3 weeks, it shines over the the full spectrum. Good luck.


@JaMo- did you make all your own power cables? Which power cable would you recommend (to improve the sound) and  be "cheap


----------



## JaMo

T 1000 said:


> @JaMo- did you make all your own power cables? Which power cable would you recommend (to improve the sound) and  be "cheap


Yes, I sure did. I used an installation cable called RK6. It is a normal installation cable for 230V 50Hz (power grid here). It is a Multi-wire single conductor. Looks like this: 
Alu tape and the nylon sleeve.. And a few pics here making them and the final result. The finished cables performs very well and are shielded 6.44 AWG (12 mm2) power cable. These cables are excellent for the amps (pre- and power amps)
/Jan


----------



## T 1000

JaMo said:


> Yes, I sure did. I used an installation cable called RK6. It is a normal installation cable for 230V 50Hz (power grid here). It is a Multi-wire single conductor. Looks like this:
> Alu tape and the nylon sleeve.. And a few pics here making them and the final result. The finished cables performs very well and are shielded 6.44 AWG (12 mm2) power cable. These cables are excellent for the amps (pre- and power amps)
> /Jan


Thank you for your contribution to the audio community, I believe that many who read this post will make one for themselves


----------



## stevel6188

Hi Headfiers,

I've recently joined the ranks of U18 owners and I'm using it to drive my Audio-GD Master 7 (with digital board upgraded) using Mode 2 via I2S.  I am very pleased with the sound, it is warm yet detailed and a definite improvement over the heavily-modded Singxer SU-1 I was using.  As others have mentioned, it isn't a DI-20 but it is close (and great value for what it is).

I have a question, if I may. Is anyone else driving an Audio-GD DAC off a U18 via I2S?  If so, what settings do you use?  Also I notice there are switches on the U18 board.  Does anyone know what these do?

Thanks

Steve


----------



## mantraone

I think than if your DAC is working properly with U18, also in DSD mode you don't need to change settings, the interesting upgrade in sound quality could be the fuse, the power cable and the I2s, or.... the external masterclock.... I tested for a couple of days the Gustard C18 and the upgrade is very interesting, fluidity and silent


----------



## stevel6188

No DSD on my DAC but yes, already upgraded the I2S cable to a good quality silver and it made a difference. The U18 has a Gustard fuse so going to stick with that for now.  I did test with an external clock (owned by a friend) and it definitely made a difference so that is a future upgrade.


----------



## EMINENT

stevel6188 said:


> No DSD on my DAC but yes, already upgraded the I2S cable to a good quality silver and it made a difference. The U18 has a Gustard fuse so going to stick with that for now.  I did test with an external clock (owned by a friend) and it definitely made a difference so that is a future upgrade.



Mind sharing which cable and clock and with what difference you heard?


----------



## mantraone

EMINENT said:


> Mind sharing which cable and clock and with what difference you heard?


Sorry I can't resist.... what's about the new Gustard R26 R2R in comparison of X26??? better? More rich sound harmonics?


----------



## Highfive99

mantraone said:


> Sorry I can't resist.... what's about the new Gustard R26 R2R in comparison of X26??? better? More rich sound harmonics?


He posted about the R26 in the R26 thread.


----------



## MartinWT (Jul 28, 2022)

EMINENT said:


> Mind sharing which cable and clock and with what difference you heard?



I thought I'd answer this too, having tried several of each type:
Best USB cable: Mad Scientist Black Magic (sumptuous presentation, liquid midrange)
Best I2S cable: Blue Jeans FE (most detailed and neutral without becoming bright)
Best clock cable: Belden 4694R (decidedly the best detail and soundstage)


----------



## stevel6188 (Jul 28, 2022)

EMINENT said:


> Mind sharing which cable and clock and with what difference you heard?


Sure.

Cable is this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000255873784.html  0.5m.  Bright at first but settled in nicely and gave more detail and lower noise.

Clock was this one https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/333541364404 on a linear power supply (as mentioned, it was a friend's).  It gave more detail and better imaging.

I'm still wondering about those 3 switches on the U18 board. Anyone?


----------



## EMINENT (Jul 31, 2022)

Would anyone know why incorporating U18 in my chain while upsampling PCM to DSD with HQP is causing Oor/Hypsos to click off and losing sound in one channel and to the point of voltage going up to 30+volts?

I have tried AES and I2S and same issue. When I take it out the chain and just go USB, no probs.

EDIT: I got the Hypsos to shut down when pausing and going to HQP settings to change a filter. Heard click and Hypsos was showing 31 v.


----------



## mrjayviper (Aug 9, 2022)

to those with this device, can you please tell me if  pin 18 of the HDMI port can be configured. If possible, how?

I downloaded the manual (from shenzhenaudio) and cannot see anything related
I looked at the pics on the same site and nothing about able to configure the pin via software or via dipswitches
Basically I want to use the device on an older Gustard DAC (X20 pro) and unsure if it would work. This is the PIN configuration for my device.

Thanks!


----------



## stevel6188

According to the docs in Mode 1 (Gustard mode) pin 18 is 5VDC Output and in the other 3 modes it is 0V.


----------



## mrjayviper

stevel6188 said:


> According to the docs in Mode 1 (Gustard mode) pin 18 is 5VDC Output and in the other 3 modes it is 0V.



thanks! I forgot that this device can be configured using buttons in front!


----------



## Mr Brett (Aug 14, 2022)

Matthew Willims said:


> I found the Gustard branded fuses are actually pretty fantastic in the U18. Great body and depth. I’ve no idea what material is used in them. That said I’ve a Synergistic Research Purple fuse on the way to replace that.



I'm looking to purchase a Gustard U18.
What is the fuse rating* of the U18 (240v)? I have some spare SR Black/Red/Orange fuses.

*Have now read the entire thread.
And the question above has been asked (and answered) many times.
Thanks


----------



## Mr Brett (Aug 14, 2022)

I have an AVplay HD-300 I2S cable 0.5m available if anyone is interested.


----------



## stevel6188

What length?  I've been using a 0.5m one and it is great.


----------



## rsbrsvp

For those who have compared the U10 to the DI-20HE, are you saying he DI-20HE is superior sonically or in terms of features?  Please elaborate.


----------



## doitttt

I want to do an experiment
https://electronics-shop.dk/?id=1038&username=&currency=USD&pollanswer=1
also available in the USA
USB2ISO - Isolated USB 2.0
https://www.saelig.com/UBUSB1/UBUSB1001.htm
it wanted to clean power, isolated from the laptop.
Power Output: Max. 400 mA is fine for gustard u18, as it has its own power supply.
think give it, wanted some clean sound
since also gustard u18, has 200mhz Isolator, jitter.
but play max 96khz, setting in jriver, I set that there then flac and sacd are played
but biggest news, comes along.
analog device adum 4165/4166, which take 480mb high speed on usb 2.
small usbstick adum 4166, with clock, can take most of the jitter.
can really expensive, Galvanic Isolator, be put out the game.


----------



## milkdudd

MartinWT said:


> I thought I'd answer this too, having tried several of each type:
> Best USB cable: Mad Scientist Black Magic (sumptuous presentation, liquid midrange)
> Best I2S cable: Blue Jeans FE (most detailed and neutral without becoming bright)
> Best clock cable: Belden 4694R (decidedly the best detail and soundstage)


Martin, I have the same blue jeans FE i2s cable you mentioned here. I was thinking of upgrading but it sounds like there's no need. Curious if you specifically compared it to the AVplay HD-300? Thanks


----------



## MartinWT (Aug 28, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> Martin, I have the same blue jeans FE i2s cable you mentioned here. I was thinking of upgrading but it sounds like there's no need. Curious if you specifically compared it to the AVplay HD-300? Thanks



Yes, I do have an HD-300 and prefer the BJ FE for sounding richer, fuller and less bright in the upper midrange lower treble.


----------



## milkdudd

I've been using my U18 for a few months and very pleased with it. I intend to add purple fuses to it and my DAC. Unfortunately I missed the sale they ran recently. Perhaps I can make a deal with you guys. If anyone sees them go on sale again please let the rest of us know here. If I notice it first I'll do the same


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Aug 29, 2022)

It’s been over 10 month since I purchased U18… it’s running strong and still very important part of my “Chain”… I have some major upgrades to my system, but at this price point I don’t think I will be upgrading it any time now (Unless I can grab DI-20HE cheap) I have really heavy (35lbs/16 kgs) Grounding box delivered today. It is connected to all front end (SOtm sms ultra, U18, DAC and After Dark dbl crown) It’s been just a few hours for the box but the improvement is HUGE… Before connecting all front end I tested the new box on U18 vs the old (standard 1.5 Kg grounding box that has been connected to U18 only for 5 mo or so) and the jump in SQ was clear…

I have Cybershaft OCXO with higher Phase Noise/Tau on it’s way from Japan… It will be feeding 10 MHz to U18 and SOtm Ultra But I’m sure I'll just confirm what has been said here before: Gustard U18 acts like a true high end gear when connected to a good Master Clock + Fuse, Good power cord and Power regenerator…


----------



## MartinWT

Crypt Keeper said:


> I have really heavy (35lbs/16 kgs) Grounding box delivered today.



As a matter of interest, which grounding box is that?

I have been saying for a long time that grounding boxes are essential for digital equipment.  I have one on each component from the router to the DAC.  They make a big difference.


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Aug 30, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> As a matter of interest, which grounding box is that?
> 
> I have been saying for a long time that grounding boxes are essential for digital equipment.  I have one on each component from the router to the DAC.  They make a big difference.


"4 interface HiFi Audio Ground Box GND Box Amplifier Decoder Speaker Audio Grounding Box Power Purifier Electronic Black Hole"​
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255800390848273.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef1802rqsvCm

Got it for $ 545 + Sales tax . It's  heavy so they only ship via DHL . I got it within 7 business  days. Other sellers  have slow shipping options  but about  $ 40 cheaper...


----------



## MartinWT

Thanks.  My largest one is a Silent Point and I have several Quartz Acoustics, Aucharms and SGS boxes, too.

Silent Point grounding box


----------



## milkdudd

It looks like I will purchase the C18 later today from Shenzhen Audio to go with my U18 and A22. Does anyone know if the C18 comes with a cable? If not, can someone suggest one with a good cost to performance ratio? And what about length? Some have said the shorter the better. I think I would only need a half meter or so if that's the case. Thanks in advance


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Aug 30, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> It looks like I will purchase the C18 later today from Shenzhen Audio to go with my U18 and A22. Does anyone know if the C18 comes with a cable? If not, can someone suggest one with a good cost to performance ratio? And what about length? Some have said the shorter the better. I think I would only need a half meter or so if that's the case. Thanks in advance


Gustard C2 Clock  Cable $150 or SOtm dCBL-BNC $630 are the best price-wise options for 50 ohm ...  The next step up is  Shynyata Sigma  ( around 2K) ... It's  almost impossible to find  good 50 Ohm clock cable below  $600 ...


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Aug 30, 2022)

BTW, I will have my 8 month old (Still under 2 year warranty)  After Dark Double Crown 10 Mhz 50 Ohm Master clock with extras for sale soon. Extras: Matching Cybershaft 50 Ohm splitter (so the clock has 2 - 10 mhz outputs) + Afterdark PSU + 2 Cybershaft 30  Cm clock cables + Solid silver DC cable 0.5 M...
2,000 USD Net / Pls PM me.
​


----------



## T 1000

Crypt Keeper said:


> "4 interface HiFi Audio Ground Box GND Box Amplifier Decoder Speaker Audio Grounding Box Power Purifier Electronic Black Hole"​
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255800390848273.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef1802rqsvCm
> 
> Got it for $ 545 + Sales tax . It's  heavy so they only ship via DHL . I got it within 7 business  days. Other sellers  have slow shipping options  but about  $ 40 cheaper...


What kind of cables are needed for those boxes, is the quality required?


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Aug 30, 2022)

T 1000 said:


> What kind of cables are needed for those boxes, is the quality required?


4 stock banana to banana cables with removable “crocodile clip” are provided with the box. I’m using 1 of them now to ground AD Master clock until I can redo the connector on Solid silver cable I have … as far as I know: Audiocrast Solid silver cables are nice but have limited connector options (RCA and BNC) or you can order “14 or 17 AWG Pure Silver” from the same store ( quality is less than Audiocrast but more options available) . I Have both in in my system now 14 Silver AWG and Audiocrast ...

Audiocrast Silver Grounding cables


----------



## T 1000

Crypt Keeper said:


> 4 stock banana to banana cables with removable “crocodile clip” are provided with the box. I’m using 1 of them now to ground AD Master clock until I can redo the connector on Solid silver cable I have … as far as I know: Audiocrast Solid silver cables are nice but have limited connector options (RCA and BNC) or you can order “14 or 17 AWG Pure Silver” from the same store ( quality is less than Audiocrast but more options available) . I Have both in in my system now 14 Silver AWG and Audiocrast ...
> 
> Audiocrast Silver Grounding cables


Hmm, so the quality of the cable is important for better sound.
On the link you provided I get a blank page
Given that the price is in rubles and due to the country of the shipper, is it possible to deliver to Europe?


----------



## T 1000 (Aug 30, 2022)

the link is now OK
The cable is fine and not expensive


----------



## Crypt Keeper

T 1000 said:


> Hmm, so the quality of the cable is important for better sound.
> On the link you provided I get a blank page
> Given that the price is in rubles and due to the country of the shipper, is it possible to deliver to Europe?


Yeah .... Ali search engine is a mess...  Sometimes I have to spend days to find what was here just a second ago ...
Try this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256801606656922.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.50521802u8EZEi


----------



## MartinWT (Aug 31, 2022)

I have not found a great difference between the basic 11AWG silver plated grounding cable and the 14AWG pure silver cable.


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Aug 31, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> I have not found a great difference between the basic 11AWG silver plated grounding cable and the 14AWG pure silver cable.


Yes, it’s really difficult to tell if solid silver makes any difference on them boxes, but in theory it should “lure in” more of that “noise”… Nordost and Entreq both use just the standard OFC for their wires and I could probably get 2 more boxes for the price tag they have on them )) It’s shielded but still just plain OFC… I think what matters the most is the plug. Original Aucharm 14 AWG silver wires I bought have really cheap connectors on botch sides … I’m not even sure if that 14 AWG silver will make any difference with these connectors, so I bought a lot of different rhodium plated plugs, some shielded pure silver wire and mo’ silver solder. Plan to redo all Aucharms keeping just the wire, also I think I will “convert” that crappy pure silver USB cable that I bought on Ali ages ago to a grounding wire with 3 pure silver cores…Pretty sure will have a lot of fun “Testing n’ comparing” it on the new box ))


----------



## MartinWT

I will say that the standard AliExpress 11AWG silver plated cables are doing a very good job with noise reduction, my soundstage is large and detail is magnificent. 

One point on rhodium. I made the mistake of buying power cables with rhodium plugs when rhodium was all the rage. Nasty, with way too much edge enhancement making them fatiguing after a while. I changed all the plugs from Furutech Rhodium to Furutech Gold and the problem went away. 

The effect with grounding cables may be completely different but I thought you should know.


----------



## Crypt Keeper

MartinWT said:


> I will say that the standard AliExpress 11AWG silver plated cables are doing a very good job with noise reduction, my soundstage is large and detail is magnificent.
> 
> One point on rhodium. I made the mistake of buying power cables with rhodium plugs when rhodium was all the rage. Nasty, with way too much edge enhancement making them fatiguing after a while. I changed all the plugs from Furutech Rhodium to Furutech Gold and the problem went away.
> 
> The effect with grounding cables may be completely different but I thought you should know.


Thanks for  the heads up  on these made in China rhodium Furutech AC plugs  ... I think I  have some on my pw  cords as well... Will  check on them soon...


----------



## kingoftown1

? 
No Furutech products are made in China....


----------



## Crypt Keeper

kingoftown1 said:


> ?
> No Furutech products are made in China....


As far as I know, unless it's around 400-500 USD  per plug they all made in China  for sure...


----------



## kingoftown1

All I'm gonna say is you might want to check your sources, and if you've bought products that say they're MiC, then you've unfortunately got fakes.


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Sep 1, 2022)

Would you really expect a $15 plug to be original Furutech manufactured in Japan/Taiwan ? They all say made in Taiwan ) I think, unless you building something similar in performance to Siltech triple/dbl crown you don’t need $500 plugs… Good plugs – yes, but not the best at this price point…


----------



## MartinWT

A Furutech FI-1363 gold plug is £97 in the UK, not $500.  And yes, I have one on every single power cable in my system.


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Nice, I thought these Furutechs you mentioned were “HK version” since we discussed Aucharms from Ali. And I have FI-50 NCF fakes on one of my cables. The original retail is around 400-500 USD here.


----------



## Louisiana

Hello owners of the Gustard U18 

I have the device since Friday, and I am satisfied with it.
The chain is as follows:
Roon Rock (Intel NUC) -> ASUS Tinker Board (DietPi) -> USB -> U18 -> I2s -> Audio-GD R28.

Now I'm thinking all the time whether I should not rather buy a DI20.

I saw that there are some here who have both a U18 and a DI20, would be great if I could hear some opinions.
On a scale of 1 - 10, where is the U18, and where the DI20?


----------



## kumar402 (Sep 7, 2022)

Louisiana said:


> Hello owners of the Gustard U18
> 
> I have the device since Friday, and I am satisfied with it.
> The chain is as follows:
> ...


There is always a shiny thing. I don’t think you will find a lot of difference going to DI20. U18 is good for your current system.
DI20 may have glowing reviews here but no so much at other website.


----------



## milkdudd

Louisiana said:


> Hello owners of the Gustard U18
> 
> I have the device since Friday, and I am satisfied with it.
> The chain is as follows:
> ...


Did you buy it new or does it already have plenty of hours of use? I was happy with my U18 (purchased new) right away but I think it got a little better in the weeks to follow. I admit that part could be placebo


----------



## milkdudd

kumar402 said:


> There is always a shiny thing. I don’t think you will find a lot of difference going to DI20. U18 is good for you current system.
> It may have glowing reviews here but no so much at other website.


My C18 is expected to arrive this Friday. It will go with my U18/A22. I got it on sale but with cable it's still $1,600. A lot of money for an "enhancement" component. If it doesn't work out I will return it and likely put that money into an X26 Pro. I listen about 95% stereo system, 5% headphones. Almost all my system upgrades have proven worth it over the last couple of years. I think this one could go either way so I'm glad it has a 30-day refund policy


----------



## Crypt Keeper

milkdudd said:


> I've been using my U18 for a few months and very pleased with it. I intend to add purple fuses to it and my DAC. Unfortunately I missed the sale they ran recently. Perhaps I can make a deal with you guys. If anyone sees them go on sale again please let the rest of us know here. If I notice it first I'll do the same


One of the distributors for SR says: “The next promo (Buy 2 fuses get 1 free) probably is going to happen just before Christmas”


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Louisiana said:


> Hello owners of the Gustard U18
> 
> I have the device since Friday, and I am satisfied with it.
> The chain is as follows:
> ...


I have U18 with SR purple fuse inside connected to power regenerator , but will be purchasing DI-20HE with 75 Ohm clock input (So I can get away from crazy expensive 50 Ohm clock cables in my setup) I will post my opinion then…


----------



## milkdudd

Crypt Keeper said:


> One of the distributors for SR says: “The next promo (Buy 2 fuses get 1 free) probably is going to happen just before Christmas”


Thanks, I put a big reminder on my calendar!


----------



## Crypt Keeper

milkdudd said:


> Thanks, I put a big reminder on my calendar!


I need  more purples as well. I think, I will purchase 1 with the Farad @ 165 USD now and wait for the sale to get more. Also I have been using “Aucharm HiFi fever grade single crystal sterling silver nano fuse gold-plated cap audio fuse 5x20mm” (Around $15) in my DACs and LPS with great results... It’s not SR Purple... but very good for this price…


----------



## Highfive99

milkdudd said:


> My C18 is expected to arrive this Friday. It will go with my U18/A22. I got it on sale but with cable it's still $1,600. A lot of money for an "enhancement" component. If it doesn't work out I will return it and likely put that money into an X26 Pro. I listen about 95% stereo system, 5% headphones. Almost all my system upgrades have proven worth it over the last couple of years. I think this one could go either way so I'm glad it has a 30-day refund policy


Personally I would have gone for the X26pro (or R26) before a C18. IMHO an upgraded DAC would have made more in a difference in sound quality than the C18 with the U18/A22 combo. But that's a discussion for another thread.   
I have the X26pro/U18 combo that sounds so good i'm have a hard time cost justifying a C18 which is more costly than the DAC.  Hope the C18 works out for you though.


----------



## Crypt Keeper

IMHO, Gustard C18 only -110 Db / 1 Hz … That is waaay below After Dark Double Crown ( -118 db / 1hz ) or Cybershaft OP17 … 
For $1600 it’s overpriced with such low specs .


----------



## milkdudd

Highfive99 said:


> Personally I would have gone for the X26pro (or R26) before a C18. IMHO an upgraded DAC would have made more in a difference in sound quality than the C18 with the U18/A22 combo. But that's a discussion for another thread.
> I have the X26pro/U18 combo that sounds so good i'm have a hard time cost justifying a C18 which is more costly than the DAC.  Hope the C18 works out for you though.


I think you're correct with everything you said. However if I didn't try a clock now when it was on sale (with return policy) I probably never would have, at least not for a long time. I wouldn't expect as big of an upgrade is a new dac, but if it's a significant improvement I'm hoping it will be the gift that keeps on giving. Maybe stay in my system through dac upgrades I make in the future. Seems like one of those things you'll never know unless you try. Years ago I was convinced cables didn't make a difference because of so many people who don't know what they're talking about stating it as a fact. To think my stereo could still be configured with off the spool wire from my electronics store, and I'd have no idea what I've was missing. I remember someone stating flatly that the A22 dac was inferior to the Topping D90. Well, to me it was night and a better. I bought the C18 from Shenzhen so I know I pay postage if I return it. What I don't know is do I also need to reimburse them for the postage they paid to send it to me. Guess I'll find out if it comes to that


----------



## milkdudd (Sep 7, 2022)

Crypt Keeper said:


> IMHO, Gustard C18 only -110 Db / 1 Hz … That is waaay below After Dark Double Crown ( -118 db / 1hz ) or Cybershaft OP17 …
> For $1600 it’s overpriced with such low specs .


I agree the After Dark has much better specs but the price is the problem. I'm seeing the Emperor Double Crown at -117 Db costing $2,395 US. And wouldn't I need a power supply and cable on top of that? And we have to remember I do most of my listing in a stereo room rather than headphones like most of you guys so the improvement I get with any clock could be much more or much less than you guys see. Of course thanks for all the advice

Edit: I just looked up the After Dark with the -110 Db that matches the C18. That would be the Emperor Signature at $1,047. Once I added the power supply and cable would I not be about in the same place as the C18?


----------



## Crypt Keeper

milkdudd said:


> I agree the After Dark has much better specs but the price is the problem. I'm seeing the Emperor Double Crown at -117 Db costing $2,395 US. And wouldn't I need a power supply and cable on top of that? And we have to remember I do most of my listing in a stereo room rather than headphones like most of you guys so the improvement I get with any clock could be much more or much less than you guys see. Of course thanks for all the advice
> 
> Edit: I just looked up the After Dark with the -110 Db that matches the C18. That would be the Emperor Signature at $1,047. Once I added the power supply and cable would I not be about in the same place as the C18?



Since I purchased Cybershaft clock, I will have my 8 month old (Still under 2 year warranty) After Dark Double Crown 10 Mhz 50 Ohm Master clock with extras for sale soon. Extras: Matching Cybershaft 50 Ohm splitter (so the clock has 2 - 10 mhz outputs) + Afterdark PSU + 2 Cybershaft 30 Cm clock cables + Solid silver DC cable 0.5 M...
All for 2,000 USD...  
Yes ,  After Dark prices  went over Cyber shaft now due to the shortage of the chips,  I would assume...
But again There are really good Cybershaft clocks  and other "used" After  Dark clocks  with -115 - 117/ db Hz available for sale  around  $1,600....  -110 /Hz   just no good ...


----------



## 12kurupt

Purchased a U18 earlier today to pair with my recently received/purchased R26. On the fuse, is it still the 500/630mA recommendation if I'm in the US (110V)? I believe many owners of U18 in this group are not in the US or maybe I'm wrong. Just want to clarify. Will go with Gustard fuse to start and progress to SR purple after burn in. Slow progression and gradual improvement is the path i'll be choosing.


----------



## Crypt Keeper

12kurupt said:


> Purchased a U18 earlier today to pair with my recently received/purchased R26. On the fuse, is it still the 500/630mA recommendation if I'm in the US (110V)? I believe many owners of U18 in this group are not in the US or maybe I'm wrong. Just want to clarify. Will go with Gustard fuse to start and progress to SR purple after burn in. Slow progression and gradual improvement is the path i'll be choosing.


Yes, I ordered 500 mA (US Voltage) for the unit, If I'm not mistaken... It’s been running strong for 8 mo or so… Some manufacturers recommend less Amperage with higher Voltage so you should be fine with both, but the original recommended specs were 500 mA…
Mo' info on how to install the fuse:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gustard-u18.960682/page-48#post-16946033


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## jimmychan (Sep 8, 2022)

Louisiana said:


> Hello owners of the Gustard U18
> 
> I have the device since Friday, and I am satisfied with it.
> The chain is as follows:
> ...


I had both the U18 and DI20HE. Now I only keep the DI20HE, it beats the U18 by a narrow margin.


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## jimmychan (Sep 8, 2022)

deleted


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## Louisiana

jimmychan said:


> Now I only keep the DI20HE, it beats the U18 by a narrow margin.


Ok, thanks for your opinion.
This means that I am basically very well served with the U18, considering the U18 = 499€, DI20-HE = 1100€.


----------



## Louisiana

Crypt Keeper said:


> I have U18 with SR purple fuse inside connected to power regenerator , but will be purchasing DI-20HE with 75 Ohm clock input (So I can get away from crazy expensive 50 Ohm clock cables in my setup) I will post my opinion then…


Is buying a new fuse really worth it?
I'm not stingy, but the fuse recommended here costs almost half of the U18


----------



## MartinWT

Louisiana said:


> Is buying a new fuse really worth it?
> I'm not stingy, but the fuse recommended here costs almost half of the U18


I had to buy four SR Purples, two for the U18 and two for the X26 Pro!  In the UK we have a fuse in the cable plug, too.

Yes, they're worth it.


----------



## Louisiana

MartinWT said:


> I had to buy four SR Purples, two for the U18 and two for the X26 Pro!  In the UK we have a fuse in the cable plug, too.



Thank you.
So for Europe/Germany i need one SR Purple, 5x20, 500mw slow blow, right?


----------



## milkdudd

Louisiana said:


> Ok, thanks for your opinion.
> This means that I am basically very well served with the U18, considering the U18 = 499€, DI20-HE = 1100€.


That's the way I looked at it. And even though I know other brands have adjustable configurations, there's nothing easier than plugging a gustard into a gustard


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Louisiana said:


> Is buying a new fuse really worth it?
> I'm not stingy, but the fuse recommended here costs almost half of the U18


Absolutely...


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Louisiana said:


> Ok, thanks for your opinion.
> This means that I am basically very well served with the U18, considering the U18 = 499€, DI20-HE = 1100€.


If  you have Power regenerators - Yes....  maybe... 
If no power regens - DI20-HE  will beat U18 for sure...


----------



## Larent

Louisiana said:


> Is buying a new fuse really worth it?
> I'm not stingy, but the fuse recommended here costs almost half of the U18


For me it's not a huge difference, but actuallay it s really nice when putting all the chain together . Nice DAC, nice I2S cable, nice usb cable , a good clock, all those things together provide with me in my rig, a very nice and superb listening sessions , especially with my headphone system, but the same goes for the speakers .


----------



## Larent

Crypt Keeper said:


> If  you have Power regenerators - Yes....  maybe...
> If no power regens - DI20-HE  will beat U18 for sure...


Hi there, Power regenerator ...never heard of them, do you have some suggestions ? Thanks .


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Larent said:


> Hi there, Power regenerator ...never heard of them, do you have some suggestions ? Thanks .


The most popular ones would be PS Audio Power Regenerators (All Voltage), really expensive, I guess… But there are other options that I’m aware of (US Voltage)…


----------



## kumar402

Do remember the power regenetarion etc may work for digital component but kills the dynamics of amp.


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## T 1000 (Sep 8, 2022)

Louisiana said:


> Thank you.
> So for Europe/Germany i need one SR Purple, 5x20, 500mw slow blow, right?


Yes
It would be good if you have a quality power cable.
If you're tight on cash right now - check out the AliExpress cables thread under the -
Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories​


----------



## milkdudd

Well I received my C18 clock and cable to go with my U18 DDC and A22 dac. Not the best start. Some customs genius sliced the box end-to-end rather than turn it around and opening it where it says open. It didn't even have a seal, they just didn't bother to look. Spent about 20 minutes reconstructing the box with tape as all of the bonded points were ripped off as well. Next issue, they didn't send me the Gustard C2 one meter cable that I ordered rather a 1/2 meter cable with the markings  "M17/128-RG400 MIL-C-17 27478 HARBOUR INDUSTRIES" a web search has confirmed it's 50 ohm but I don't know how to interpret the rest of the specs. When I ordered the clock and cable they initially said the cable would ship when it came back in stock. And then the same day told me it was being shipped. Anyone know did they screw me or did I actually get a better cable to replace the one they didn't have in stock? If I don't get the cable right, obviously I'll never know how good this could have sounded. Finally, of course no instructions. Not that it's complicated but I'm curious if there's a logical sequence of powering up everything after it's hooked up. I'll power down the DDC and dac before hook up. I can either then power the items on one at a time, or I can turn off at the power strip, turn all three of those little Gustards on, and then turn on the power strip to power up everything simultaneously. Sorry for all the long winded diatribe but I really want to get this right


----------



## Crypt Keeper

milkdudd said:


> Well I received my C18 clock and cable to go with my U18 DDC and A22 dac. Not the best start. Some customs genius sliced the box end-to-end rather than turn it around and opening it where it says open. It didn't even have a seal, they just didn't bother to look. Spent about 20 minutes reconstructing the box with tape as all of the bonded points were ripped off as well. Next issue, they didn't send me the Gustard C2 one meter cable that I ordered rather a 1/2 meter cable with the markings  "M17/128-RG400 MIL-C-17 27478 HARBOUR INDUSTRIES" a web search has confirmed it's 50 ohm but I don't know how to interpret the rest of the specs. When I ordered the clock and cable they initially said the cable would ship when it came back in stock. And then the same day told me it was being shipped. Anyone know did they screw me or did I actually get a better cable to replace the one they didn't have in stock? If I don't get the cable right, obviously I'll never know how good this could have sounded. Finally, of course no instructions. Not that it's complicated but I'm curious if there's a logical sequence of powering up everything after it's hooked up. I'll power down the DDC and dac before hook up. I can either then power the items on one at a time, or I can turn off at the power strip, turn all three of those little Gustards on, and then turn on the power strip to power up everything simultaneously. Sorry for all the long winded diatribe but I really want to get this right


I would suggest: Power up the clock wait a bit for the confirmation it’s running ( If any ) then DAC and U18 (make sure U18 set to external clock input -REF: EXT on the display) … Not sure about the Gustard but with After Dark clock it takes about 72 hrs to get the “oven” running and about at least a week to get stable… Then more improvement about after 2-3 weeks or so … Cyber shaft is little bit faster but still needs at least 72 hrs/a week. Also some burn-in will be required for any clock. With AD recommended “Burn-in” time was at least 35 days, I think…

I ordered my U18 at shenzhenaudio.com and didn’t have any shipping issues. But aoshida-audio decided to completely ignore my multiple return requests once, so if I’m buying from them again it will be @ Amazon … I suggest reporting missing C2 cable and shipping damages right away…Also they may ask for pictures of the cable & the box.


----------



## milkdudd

Okay thanks. Whatever I do with the cable I will at least hook up the one they sent me and let everything warm up. I assume the best connection is from sine wave 1 output of the C18? Also is there any chance that the cable I received is better than the Gustard cable? Either way I'm going to report everything to Shenzhen as you suggested


----------



## Crypt Keeper

milkdudd said:


> Okay thanks. Whatever I do with the cable I will at least hook up the one they sent me and let everything warm up. I assume the best connection is from sine wave 1 output of the C18? Also is there any chance that the cable I received is better than the Gustard cable? Either way I'm going to report everything to Shenzhen as you suggested


Yes. U18 is Sine wave 50 Ohm.


----------



## milkdudd

Crypt Keeper said:


> Yes. U18 is Sine wave 50 Ohm.


Okay thank you. Do you happen to know if the cable they sent me is a good one or a piece of junk they had laying around? Thanks again


----------



## Crypt Keeper

milkdudd said:


> Okay thanks. Whatever I do with the cable I will at least hook up the one they sent me and let everything warm up. I assume the best connection is from sine wave 1 output of the C18? Also is there any chance that the cable I received is better than the Gustard cable? Either way I'm going to report everything to Shenzhen as you suggested


I've  never tried/seen such cable  befo.... As far as I know for 50 Ohm: Belden/ HUBER+SUHNER (Red 50 Ohm stock on After Dark clocks) < Cybershaft blue 50 Ohm < Gustard C2< SOtm dCBL-BNC 50 Ohm.


----------



## milkdudd

Crypt Keeper said:


> I've  never tried/seen such cable  befo.... As far as I know for 50 Ohm: Belden/ HUBER+SUHNER (Red 50 Ohm stock on After Dark clocks) < Cybershaft blue 50 Ohm < Gustard C2< SOtm dCBL-BNC 50 Ohm.


I was hoping the one they sent me was the top of the line model but I knew that wasn't much of a chance


----------



## Crypt Keeper

milkdudd said:


> I was hoping the one they sent me was the top of the line model but I knew that wasn't much of a chance


It might be "stock cable"  provided with C18, but I have no  experience with that clock... Pretty sure C2 is above that.


----------



## milkdudd

Crypt Keeper said:


> It might be "stock cable"  provided with C18, but I have no  experience with that clock... Pretty sure C2 is above that.





Crypt Keeper said:


> It might be "stock cable"  provided with C18, but I have no  experience with that clock... Pretty sure C2 is above that.


Okay great thinking. I think that's exactly what's happening, that the correct Gustard C2 cable will be coming in a separate package. They seem pretty on the ball. I was surprised they would make such an obvious mistake


----------



## 12kurupt

All this clock/bnc cable talk pushed me to satisfy the itch. However, I'll be trying the LHY OCK-1 Master Clock generator since I've just upgraded my entire system + headphones this month. I've only seen one other person confirm they've purchased it, but no comment back if received or thoughts on the product. I look forward to milkdudd's thoughts after more use with his U18 + C18 to see if perhaps I'll get C18 to replace OCK-1 next year or later on.


----------



## milkdudd

12kurupt said:


> All this clock/bnc cable talk pushed me to satisfy the itch. However, I'll be trying the LHY OCK-1 Master Clock generator since I've just upgraded my entire system + headphones this month. I've only seen one other person confirm they've purchased it, but no comment back if received or thoughts on the product. I look forward to milkdudd's thoughts after more use with his U18 + C18 to see if perhaps I'll get C18 to replace OCK-1 next year or later on.


Well I have it up and running with the supplied cable. From cold it still sounds pretty good. I rarely listen this time of day for a variety of reasons. I live in a highly industrialized area, metro Detroit and I've noticed the best sound quality I get is after midnight. Sometimes well after midnight especially on Sunday nights. When pretty much every factory everywhere is shut down. That said (unless it's placebo) my stereo system seems to sound as good now (roughly dinner time) as it ever has in the middle of the night. The best part is that this is the worst that will ever sound. Can't wait till I have a couple of weeks on it with the correct cable. I'll try to give my honest opinions in the days and weeks to come. Although keep in mind my opinions are based on a stereo room not headphone listening. And again thanks to all you guys that help me out here


----------



## tedacura1

Crypt Keeper said:


> Since I purchased Cybershaft clock, I will have my 8 month old (Still under 2 year warranty) After Dark Double Crown 10 Mhz 50 Ohm Master clock with extras for sale soon. Extras: Matching Cybershaft 50 Ohm splitter (so the clock has 2 - 10 mhz outputs) + Afterdark PSU + 2 Cybershaft 30 Cm clock cables + Solid silver DC cable 0.5 M...
> All for 2,000 USD...
> Yes ,  After Dark prices  went over Cyber shaft now due to the shortage of the chips,  I would assume...
> But again There are really good Cybershaft clocks  and other "used" After  Dark clocks  with -115 - 117/ db Hz available for sale  around  $1,600....  -110 /Hz   just no good ...


Why did you purchase a Cybershaft clock after having an Afterdark clock?


----------



## Crypt Keeper

tedacura1 said:


> Why did you purchase a Cybershaft clock after having an Afterdark clock?


IMHO Cyber shaft is the best.+ I need 4 10 Mhz outputs+ Decided to try higher grade clock ( -Db at 1 Hz/ Tau) and pair it with Farad Super 3 + the purple fuse +Audio Sensibility signature DC cable @ 14 V…


----------



## doitttt

DI20HE or gustard u18 it hip or hap
Matrix USB 24/96 - $59
Musical Fidelity V-Link II - $199
Hegel HD2 - $350 (this primarily an USB DAC but can also be used as standalone USB/SPDIF converter)
Halide Design The Bridge - $399
JK SPDIF Mk3 - $436 (335 EUROS)
Stello U3 - $495
M2Tech HiFace Evo - $499
Audiophilleo 1/2 -$579/$979
M2Tech HiFace Evo + Evo Supply - $990
M2Tech HiFace Evo + Evo Supply + Evo Clock - $1485
Berkeley Alpha USB - $1890
Empirical Audio Off Ramp Turbo 5 - $2249 (as tested, with $700 Dual Turboclock and $250 S/PDIF Hynes regulator options installed)
Soulution 590 - $3000
dCS U-Clock mk1 (24/96) - $4990
Berkeley Alpha USB should be good
check this link
https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=19747
Berkeley Alpha USB is a thing of the past
equipped xmos 208
the new xmos216 accelerate the sound very fast on 16 cores
the sound becomes transparent
DI20HE or gustard u18 is new generation usb dcc
if use 10mhz master clock be -130db 1hz phase
and a noise floor -160db because it sounds good
jittter ps measurement you need up to 10 nanosec before it's audible
and how does your system sound
dac
amplifier
and speakers
all influence on sounds


----------



## Crypt Keeper

"if use 10mhz master clock be -130db 1hz phase"  -  That would be really over my budget ...


----------



## doitttt

yes the correct cybershaft clock with 110db 1hz
but the noise floor goes to 140db
but that's ok too
MUTEC REF10 SE120 goes 160db costs a lot


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## doitttt (Sep 8, 2022)

a good tip
Aircom Premium Low Loss Coax 50ohm
this cable is at height 50ohm cables cost 200 dollars and more
  soldering iron must be used
https://www.dmtonline.dk/pi/Aircom-...031274_200127.aspx?LanguageId=2&CurrencyId=11
and then BNC male clamp Aircom Premium, Ecoflex10 is used
https://www.dmtonline.dk/pi/BNC-male-clamp-Aircom-Premium-Ecoflex10_6031838_200010.aspx
total costs 28.84 euros with danish vat
plus shipping
data assembly
https://www.dmtonline.dk/images/documents/60600_42861.pdf

https://www.dmtonline.dk/images/documents/7401_43065.pdf


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## milkdudd

One more question from the guy with a million questions. When we talk about the C18 needing a couple of weeks to hit its prime, is it relevant how much I listen to music during that time? In other words is there a break-in by playing music with it attached to the U18? I think not but I thought I would ask anyway. Not worried about breaking in the cable. I have verified that the Gustard C2 cable is in route as they shipped it separately


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## T 1000 (Sep 9, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> One more question from the guy with a million questions. When we talk about the C18 needing a couple of weeks to hit its prime, is it relevant how much I listen to music during that time? In other words is there a break-in by playing music with it attached to the U18? I think not but I thought I would ask anyway. Not worried about breaking in the cable. I have verified that the Gustard C2 cable is in route as they shipped it separately


Someone correct me if I'm wrong,
it is best if the signal flows continuously through the U18, while you are not listening to music, play for example pink noise and so on for about 10 days
That way I burn everything  new
But I'm not sure about the time period with U18, maybe he needs longer


----------



## milkdudd

T 1000 said:


> Someone correct me if I'm wrong,
> it is best if the signal flows continuously through the U18, while you are not listening to music, play for example pink noise and so on for about 10 days
> That way I burn everything  new
> But I'm not sure about the time period with U18, maybe he needs longer


Okay thanks. But in my case I've had the U18 for several months, it's only the C18 that I'm adding now


----------



## kumar402

T 1000 said:


> Someone correct me if I'm wrong,
> it is best if the signal flows continuously through the U18, while you are not listening to music, play for example pink noise and so on for about 10 days
> That way I burn everything  new
> But I'm not sure about the time period with U18, maybe he needs longer


There is no harm in playing music thru it for 24hrs everyday for few weeks.


----------



## Crypt Keeper

milkdudd said:


> Okay thanks. But in my case I've had the U18 for several months, it's only the C18 that I'm adding now


Just leave both C18 and U18 with the clock cable attached powered on for 35 Days... Power off both units when you need to unplug your clock cable. Recommended burn-in for  such clocks around 30-35 Days…


----------



## Crypt Keeper

This one is nice for speakers/cables but will not hurt any digital devices ) 
Tara Labs - The CASCADE Noise Burn-In


----------



## milkdudd

Crypt Keeper said:


> Just leave both C18 and U18 with the clock cable attached powered on for 35 Days... Power off both units when you need to unplug your clock cable. Recommended burn-in for  such clocks around 30-35 Days…


Okay thanks. That is how I planned to swap the cable when it comes. Didn't make it today. I think tomorrow it will be here. I'll definitely leave it on for that 30 days that coincides with the return policy. Although I'm liking this already and I don't think I will be returning it. Unless to buy something farther up the food chain


----------



## milkdudd

milkdudd said:


> Okay thanks. That is how I planned to swap the cable when it comes. Didn't make it today. I think tomorrow it will be here. I'll definitely leave it on for that 30 days that coincides with the return policy. Although I'm liking this already and I don't think I will be returning it. Unless to buy something farther up the food chain


Greetings again helpful head-fiers. Almost 3 days now since my C18/U18/A22 combination has been powered on. I did get the new C2 cable installed yesterday. My stereo system has never sounded this good. And to think it will only get better over the next month. Loving this. As always, a question or two. The power company had to shut me off for a half hour or so to work on the lines after a tree fell on my neighbor's garage and took some lines down. Power is back on but this is something I've been wondering about, how fast does the C18 cool off? Knowing that it takes a month or so to hit optimal temperature I wonder if this has been a setback for reaching full temperature of the clock. And actually more importantly I've been wondering what do I do during electrical storms? In the past I've unplugged everything to be safe but sometimes that can be a full day and occasionally even more, or several times during the same week. I'm hoping if I have to do that I'm not looking at a month each time to get back to optimum sound quality. What do you guys think about that? Thanks in advance


----------



## T 1000 (Sep 11, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> Greetings again helpful head-fiers. Almost 3 days now since my C18/U18/A22 combination has been powered on. I did get the new C2 cable installed yesterday. My stereo system has never sounded this good. And to think it will only get better over the next month. Loving this. As always, a question or two. The power company had to shut me off for a half hour or so to work on the lines after a tree fell on my neighbor's garage and took some lines down. Power is back on but this is something I've been wondering about, how fast does the C18 cool off? Knowing that it takes a month or so to hit optimal temperature I wonder if this has been a setback for reaching full temperature of the clock. And actually more importantly I've been wondering what do I do during electrical storms? In the past I've unplugged everything to be safe but sometimes that can be a full day and occasionally even more, or several times during the same week. I'm hoping if I have to do that I'm not looking at a month each time to get back to optimum sound quality. What do you guys think about that? Thanks in advance


Don't worry, it won't affect, it's a short period
Feel free to indulge in the music


----------



## milkdudd

T 1000 said:


> Don't worry, it won't affect, it's a short period
> Feel free to indulge in the music


Yes I certainly will indulge the music as you say. However that won't be until about midnight or so. But just to be clear, when you said it's a short period of time are you referring to the half hour the power was off today or if in the future I unplugged for a full day or so? I use multiple Furman AC-215A power conditioners/surge protectors so maybe unplugging isn't even needed in the future


----------



## T 1000

milkdudd said:


> Yes I certainly will indulge the music as you say. However that won't be until about midnight or so. But just to be clear, when you said it's a short period of time are you referring to the half hour the power was off today or if in the future I unplugged for a full day or so? I use multiple Furman AC-215A power conditioners/surge protectors so maybe unplugging isn't even needed in the future


During the burning period, half an hour (one time) is not a problem
The whole day is an interruption of the process


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Sep 11, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> Greetings again helpful head-fiers. Almost 3 days now since my C18/U18/A22 combination has been powered on. I did get the new C2 cable installed yesterday. My stereo system has never sounded this good. And to think it will only get better over the next month. Loving this. As always, a question or two. The power company had to shut me off for a half hour or so to work on the lines after a tree fell on my neighbor's garage and took some lines down. Power is back on but this is something I've been wondering about, how fast does the C18 cool off? Knowing that it takes a month or so to hit optimal temperature I wonder if this has been a setback for reaching full temperature of the clock. And actually more importantly I've been wondering what do I do during electrical storms? In the past I've unplugged everything to be safe but sometimes that can be a full day and occasionally even more, or several times during the same week. I'm hoping if I have to do that I'm not looking at a month each time to get back to optimum sound quality. What do you guys think about that? Thanks in advance


Once you reach this initial 30-35 days burn-in, even when you power off for some time the burn-in is done… But once power off again the “oven” of C18 will need some time to sound the best again. Gustad U18 is quick (1 hr or so) . But the clock usually needs at least 72 hrs… IMHO, you should get about 80% of your 10 Mhz clock in about 7-10 days, then 100% in about 30 days (After the initial 35 days burn-in is complete)


----------



## milkdudd

Colossal. Thank you


----------



## T 1000 (Sep 11, 2022)

deleted


----------



## milkdudd

I see there was a comment that has been deleted. I hope I didn't misuse the word colossal. To me it has always meant exceptional or excellent. But I went to look it up and it seems it's usually associated with words like failure, monstrosity and boondoggle. Anyway, post #912 was my attempt to thank you for your help which I do here again


----------



## Crypt Keeper

boondoggle


----------



## milkdudd

Crypt Keeper said:


> boondoggle


Now that I think about it, Boondoggle might just become my new nickname. If James Darren could be Moondoggie in the classic surf movie Gidget, I can be Boondoggle! Now back to our regularly scheduled program


----------



## T 1000

milkdudd said:


> I see there was a comment that has been deleted. I hope I didn't misuse the word colossal. To me it has always meant exceptional or excellent. But I went to look it up and it seems it's usually associated with words like failure, monstrosity and boondoggle. Anyway, post #912 was my attempt to thank you for your help which I do here again


Don't look back, I just wrote nonsense with my activities


----------



## MartinWT

kumar402 said:


> Do remember the power regenetarion etc may work for digital component but kills the dynamics of amp.


It certainly does not for me.

I have two regenerators, a PS Audio P3 and P10. Dynamics from my system are knockout. Seriously very good and better than without the regenerators.


----------



## Crypt Keeper

MartinWT said:


> It certainly does not for me.
> 
> I have two regenerators, a PS Audio P3 and P10. Dynamics from my system are knockout. Seriously very good and better than without the regenerators.


That might be the case with cheaper filters only … When I tested my amp with Panamax, it was definitely “chocking” it… But I have no such issues with my Isolation transformers. I do notice wider stage, much better dynamics, more bass and Instruments seem to pop out from a "3D" like background…


----------



## MartinWT

Filters are different and can restrict dynamic current demand.

Balanced transformers and regenerators work completely differently and have no dynamic restrictions in normal operation.


----------



## Miro102

Hello to everybody, I use the Gustard U18 connected to Gustard x26pro with IIS output, when I listen to Tidal Master before I had the written MQA while now I only see the frequency, is this normal? thank you.


----------



## milkdudd

I use the U18 with the gustard A22 dac. While there might be a setting to enable mqa through the U18 I never found it. I didn't look very hard though because removing the U18 to get the mqa to work on the A22 had me losing sound quality. Just to help me understand, is there any advantage of mqa other than the file sizes are smaller to help eliminate dropouts or something like that while streaming? I'm also listening to Tidal Master. Two weeks ago I added the C18 clock to the mix and my listening session last night was epic. I'm listening in my stereo room rather than headphones. What I'm hearing is beyond anything I have up till now, and everyone says the clock hits full stride at about the one month mark. I'm finding at least with the A22 the filter selection does make a noticeable difference. LOW-d SHOT is my preferred filter setting but I'm still experimenting. Miles and miles of smiles 😁


----------



## Miro102

Hello, it's not a big problem don't see on display mqa mode, somebody say mqa sounds worse I don't know, I just wanted to know why, anyway U18 and x26pro sounds super divinely !!


----------



## MartinWT

Subscribe to Qobuz Studio for true high-resolution streams, completely untampered with, and don't bother with Tidal or MQA.


----------



## Miro102

I also have Qobuz from some time and am making comparisons with Tidal, I don't know but they say Qobuz has better quality.


----------



## milkdudd

Miro102 said:


> Hello, it's not a big problem don't see on display mqa mode, somebody say mqa sounds worse I don't know, I just wanted to know why, anyway U18 and x26pro sounds super divinely !!


I'm sure it does sound just as you say. However forum members here who have the exact components you have say if you add the C18 clock to what you already have it will then sound "super-duper divinely!!" or if you go with an After Dark or similar higher spec clock I think it will then sound "ultra super-duper divinely!!"


----------



## Miro102 (Sep 23, 2022)

I will consider it very well for a future purchase, it is always nice to improve.


----------



## mantraone

Miro102 said:


> Hello, it's not a big problem don't see on display mqa mode, somebody say mqa sounds worse I don't know, I just wanted to know why, anyway U18 and x26pro sounds super divinely !!


MQA decoding works only on USB input on the Gustard X26 Pro.


----------



## Miro102

Ok thank you


----------



## Jake2 (Sep 23, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> I'm sure it does sound just as you say. However forum members here who have the exact components you have say if you add the C18 clock to what you already have it will then sound "super-duper divinely!!" or if you go with an After Dark or similar higher spec clock I think it will then sound "ultra super-duper


'Even' the much more affordable LHY OCK-1 (with purportedly the same 1hz phase noise spec as the C18) gives an unsubtle step up over the U18 alone in terms of transients, soundstaging, note definition etc. Only had it a few days, highly recommended.

A DI20HE DDC user reached the same conclusion on that thread. Edit - link.


----------



## Miro102

Interesting, but how much important is cable connecting IIS port ? i am using this ,seems work decently, i would find dedicated cable.
https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B097RC7BCM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


----------



## kumar402

Miro102 said:


> Interesting, but how much important is cable connecting IIS port ? i am using this ,seems work decently, i would find dedicated cable.
> https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B097RC7BCM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


Believe it or not but out of all digital connection, in I2S mode clock information is carried separatly and hence the quality of cable has a say in I2S.


----------



## MartinWT

Miro102 said:


> Interesting, but how much important is cable connecting IIS port ? i am using this ,seems work decently, i would find dedicated cable.
> https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B097RC7BCM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


They do sound different and careful selection will affect overall sound quality.

I've tried half a dozen HDMI cables for I2S and prefer Blue Jeans FE (Belden 28AWG bonded pair) as my favourite.


----------



## mantraone

MartinWT said:


> They do sound different and careful selection will affect overall sound quality.
> 
> I've tried half a dozen HDMI cables for I2S and prefer Blue Jeans FE (Belden 28AWG bonded pair) as my favourite.


Did you tried also the Gustard IIs cable?


----------



## MartinWT

mantraone said:


> Did you tried also the Gustard IIs cable?


No - I had stopped at that point.


----------



## kingoftown1

Belden FE is a good value for sure.


----------



## milkdudd

I'm about halfway through the initial 30-day break in of the C18 clock and C2 BNC cable. In a couple of weeks when everything's fully broken in (I assume it will be by then) I will be able to compare the Blue Jeans and AVplay HD-300 I2S cables that I use between my U18 and A22 dac. I'll give an update here when that time comes


----------



## MartinWT

I'll be interested in your findings. I have both cables.


----------



## Getafix

The excellent Gustards I2s cable has been discontinued and is sold out everywhere except probably one seller in the Netherlands.


----------



## Miro102

Anyone have experience with Supra Blue hdmi cable looks like a good cable.


----------



## MartinWT

Miro102 said:


> Anyone have experience with Supra Blue hdmi cable looks like a good cable.


Yes. It's not as good as Blue Jeans FE. It sounds slightly dull whereas the AVplay is too bright. That's where the FE wins, the balance is just right.


----------



## milkdudd

MartinWT said:


> I'll be interested in your findings. I have both cables.


Greetings Martin. A couple of weeks ago you were kind enough to give me your opinions on these cables. The reason I proceeded with the AVplay cable purchase is that a forum member gave me a great deal on a like new cable. At $45 shipped I didn't think I had anything to lose. Just don't want you to think I ignored your advice, as that would never happen!


----------



## tedacura1

Getafix said:


> The excellent Gustards I2s cable has been discontinued and is sold out everywhere except probably one seller in the Netherlands.


I wonder why it was discontinued? It's a great-sounding cable in my system.


----------



## milkdudd

tedacura1 said:


> I wonder why it was discontinued? It's a great-sounding cable in my system.


Are there other cables that you compared the Gustard cable to? I'm happy with the cables I already have, but as soon as I hear something is discontinued I'm always tempted to buy one while I can


----------



## MartinWT

milkdudd said:


> Just don't want you to think I ignored your advice, as that would never happen!


Please don't worry!  My opinion is just that, not a pronouncement from on high!

I leave other forums to ram such pronouncements down our throats


----------



## milkdudd

MartinWT said:


> Please don't worry!  My opinion is just that, not a pronouncement from on high!
> 
> I leave other forums to ram such pronouncements down our throats


Better to be the Rammer than the Ramee!


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Miro102 said:


> Interesting, but how much important is cable connecting IIS port ? i am using this ,seems work decently, i would find dedicated cable.
> https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B097RC7BCM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


Just my 2 cents on I2S cables:

Moshou 8K Green = Gustard I2S < AV Play Solid Silver < Audiolund True Silver Series HDMI I2S/IIS/AV Cable (OCC Silver)


----------



## Cuthbert 80

@MartinWT could you please recommend a decent power cable for my U18 under £100 from the UK...if that exists?!

Cheers


----------



## MartinWT

Cuthbert 80 said:


> @MartinWT could you please recommend a decent power cable for my U18 under £100 from the UK...if that exists?!



I am using much more expensive power cables, but I do have a lot of respect for the MCRU No. 9 cable, which I think is in your budget.

Ask David Brook of MCRU if he can still make you one.


----------



## Cuthbert 80

MartinWT said:


> I am using much more expensive power cables, but I do have a lot of respect for the MCRU No. 9 cable, which I think is in your budget.
> 
> Ask David Brook of MCRU if he can still make you one.


Excellent, thanks a lot Martin


----------



## SKR987

I am using Gustard I2S cable from my U18 to Topping D90SE DAC. But there are drop outs frequently. Can someone help me selecting the right setting between U18 and Topping D90SE


----------



## Miro102

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005002433638544.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6c187344xZzRs3&algo_pvid=39496d26-2997-4576-a671-ba4d2c859123&aem_p4p_detail=202209300734297802508318346000002800324&algo_exp_id=39496d26-2997-4576-a671-ba4d2c859123-6&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000020639593262"}&pdp_npi=2@dis!EUR!226.63!113.31!!!!!@2100bddf16645484693684706ebeee!12000020639593262!sea&curPageLogUid=3tzqpuaODLml&ad_pvid=202209300734297802508318346000002800324_7


What do you think aout this cable? Someone has tryed it?


----------



## MartinWT

It's a fake Nordost. You'd probably be better off spending the money on a Supra or Blue Jeans USB.


----------



## mantraone

SKR987 said:


> I am using Gustard I2S cable from my U18 to Topping D90SE DAC. But there are drop outs frequently. Can someone help me selecting the right setting between U18 and Topping D90SE


First of all, which I2s pinout are you set on Gustard I2s (Gustard, Mode#2, Mode#3, Mode#4)?


----------



## Crypt Keeper

milkdudd said:


> I've been using my U18 for a few months and very pleased with it. I intend to add purple fuses to it and my DAC. Unfortunately I missed the sale they ran recently. Perhaps I can make a deal with you guys. If anyone sees them go on sale again please let the rest of us know here. If I notice it first I'll do the same



*OCTOBER 2022 Special.* Until October 31st BUY two Purple fuses and get another one  FREE. That's a value of $199.95 absolutely FREE. _(Leave a note at the check-out or email us to let us know what the third fuse should be)_

https://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-purple-quantum-fuses

VH Audio  is so late on the promo ...


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Miro102 said:


> https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005002433638544.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6c187344xZzRs3&algo_pvid=39496d26-2997-4576-a671-ba4d2c859123&aem_p4p_detail=202209300734297802508318346000002800324&algo_exp_id=39496d26-2997-4576-a671-ba4d2c859123-6&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000020639593262"}&pdp_npi=2@dis!EUR!226.63!113.31!!!!!@2100bddf16645484693684706ebeee!12000020639593262!sea&curPageLogUid=3tzqpuaODLml&ad_pvid=202209300734297802508318346000002800324_7
> 
> 
> What do you think aout this cable? Someone has tryed it?



Yes, very good for the price (12  core 0.75 M  was  on sale for around $20 / different vendor )


----------



## milkdudd (Oct 4, 2022)

I did a little experiment yesterday and I'm not sure how to interpret the the results. I listened as normal from my Android OTG (in airplane mode to shut down as much as possible running in the background) using DH labs best USB cable into my A22 dac. I have my C18 clock connected to the U18 with the gustard 50 ohm C2 cable. For now I've gone back to the blue jeans i2S cable between the U18 and A22. Now for the test part. My CD player (Onkyo C-7000R) is connected to the A22 using the aes/xlr connection with what I consider a top tier cable. I put a well recorded CD in the player and then queued up the UAPP Android app playing the flac files ripped from the same CD. It was easy to synchronize both, so once I started listening I could toggle between the i2s input and the AES input on the dac. Bottom line I could not hear any difference, and I really tried. Now you guys that know a lot more about this stuff please feel free to help me interpret these results. Does this mean C18/U18 combination is doing a remarkable job to match the sound quality of the CD player over AES digital? Should one sound better than the other? Sorry for being so long-winded but I didn't know how else to explain this


----------



## Crypt Keeper

milkdudd said:


> I did a little experiment yesterday and I'm not sure how to interpret the the results. I listened as normal from my Android OTG (in airplane mode to shut down as much as possible running in the background) using DH labs best USB cable into my A22 dac. I have my C18 clock connected to the U18 with the gustard 50 ohm C2 cable. For now I've gone back to the blue jeans i2S cable between the U18 and A22. Now for the test part. My CD player (Onkyo C-7000R) is connected to the A22 using the aes/xlr connection with what I consider a top tier cable. I put a well recorded CD in the player and then queued up the UAPP Android app playing the flac files ripped from the same CD. It was easy to synchronize both, so once I started listening I could toggle between the i2s input and the AES input on the dac. Bottom line I could not hear any difference, and I really tried. Now you guys that know a lot more about this stuff please feel free to help me interpret these results. Does this mean C18/U18 combination is doing a remarkable job to match the sound quality of the CD player over AES digital? Should one sound better than the other? Sorry for being so long-winded but I didn't know how else to explain this


That’s lil’ bit confusing , but I think your streamer + DAC + Gustard U18 + Master clock should better the CD player for sure  … Unless you have really..really expensive CD transport… IMHO, I2S connection is the best, but you will need  really short / good I2S cable… I think , the AV play I2S should be fine, but check the pinout on U18/DAC... I had some weird mismatch between my DAC and U18 until I figured out the best setting on both … Was your AV play made for Gustard --> Gustard pinout ? As far as I remember , they have like 4 different “plans” to choose from…


----------



## MartinWT

Was the U18 set to EXT CLK so that it passes the clock through I2S to the DAC?

It could be that the A22 doesn't respond as well to I2S input, but I can tell you that the X26 Pro is considerably superior on I2S compared with AES.


----------



## milkdudd

Thanks for responding guys. It's way late in my time zone but I'm doing one more experiment and listening to it as I post this and getting very positive results. Tomorrow I'll chime in with some more findings. Thanks again


----------



## EMINENT

What is the cause of clicks and pops at the beginning of song using U18>I2S>R26 upsampling PCM-DSD?


----------



## kumar402

EMINENT said:


> What is the cause of clicks and pops at the beginning of song using U18>I2S>R26 upsampling PCM-DSD?


clicks and pops are missing packets in USB transmission.
what is the source to feed U18? Source is the culprit


----------



## milkdudd

milkdudd said:


> Thanks for responding guys. It's way late in my time zone but I'm doing one more experiment and listening to it as I post this and getting very positive results. Tomorrow I'll chime in with some more findings. Thanks again


The experiment I was referring to was substituting a DAP for the Android phone. It's this one in the photo. It does not have a dac, it's purely a digital transport. Connecting it with USB to the A22, with the C18 connected to the U18 with the gustard C2 cable. Then the U18 connected to the A22 with the blue jeans i2s cable. I also have the AV play i2s cable but as of now I'm liking the blue jeans better. I will experiment at least one more time with that AV cable since I've made other changes since I last listened. To be clear I was already thrilled with the sound I was getting out of my stereo system. However ditching the Android phone has seen yet another noticeable improvement. Actually even with the Android as a source it was a slight (very slight) improvement in sound quality compared to the CD player. But to the question of what CD player I have it's the Onkyo reference C-7000R. It's a peach I must say. At least the equal to my Denon DCD-A100 anniversary player, minus the sacd capability. Most of my listening now is streaming Tidal. I see now I need to put a priority on getting the Android out of that chain as well. Can anyone recommend a high quality, not ridiculously expensive streamer for Tidal? Besides sound quality, priority is something relatively plug and play. I see on the R26 thread what an adventure it can be getting the different components to communicate with each other


----------



## milkdudd

Just thought of one more thing. As you can see in that photo my DAP has an AES digital output. It couldn't hurt to try hooking it up that way to my A22. Would I lose the benefits of the C18 and U18 if I hooked it up that way I wonder? One thing I'm still unsure of is whether the clock and DDC only benefit if using the USB input to the dac. Or will other connections such as AES, coax or optical also benefit?


----------



## Crypt Keeper

milkdudd said:


> The experiment I was referring to was substituting a DAP for the Android phone. It's this one in the photo. It does not have a dac, it's purely a digital transport. Connecting it with USB to the A22, with the C18 connected to the U18 with the gustard C2 cable. Then the U18 connected to the A22 with the blue jeans i2s cable. I also have the AV play i2s cable but as of now I'm liking the blue jeans better. I will experiment at least one more time with that AV cable since I've made other changes since I last listened. To be clear I was already thrilled with the sound I was getting out of my stereo system. However ditching the Android phone has seen yet another noticeable improvement. Actually even with the Android as a source it was a slight (very slight) improvement in sound quality compared to the CD player. But to the question of what CD player I have it's the Onkyo reference C-7000R. It's a peach I must say. At least the equal to my Denon DCD-A100 anniversary player, minus the sacd capability. Most of my listening now is streaming Tidal. I see now I need to put a priority on getting the Android out of that chain as well. Can anyone recommend a high quality, not ridiculously expensive streamer for Tidal? Besides sound quality, priority is something relatively plug and play. I see on the R26 thread what an adventure it can be getting the different components to communicate with each other


MQA ? Noooo… I play flacs. I’m using Linux SOtm sMS-200ultra Neo network renderer with 75 Ohm clock input. + Farad Super 3 (12 V) + purple fuse + solid silver Audio Sensibility Signature DC cable… Works great via MPD …


----------



## milkdudd

Crypt Keeper said:


> MQA ? Noooo… I play flacs. I’m using Linux SOtm sMS-200ultra Neo network renderer with 75 Ohm clock input. + Farad Super 3 (12 V) + purple fuse + solid silver Audio Sensibility Signature DC cable… Works great via MPD …


Thanks. I'm in the middle of a few things right now but tonight I will research these components


----------



## SKR987

mantraone said:


> First of all, which I2s pinout are you set on Gustard I2s (Gustard, Mode#2, Mode#3, Mode#4)?


I am on Gustard setting. This setting works fine with DSD when I am using HQPlayer which converts PCM to DSD. But when I am inputting PCM signal to the topping DAC than I get drop outs.


----------



## Miro102

I would like to ask one thing, on the Gustard c18 coupled to the X26pro, the specifications of the C18 speak of -110db at 1hz, what are the specifications of the internal clock of the x26pro to make a comparison?


----------



## FredA (Oct 10, 2022)

Miro102 said:


> I would like to ask one thing, on the Gustard c18 coupled to the X26pro, the specifications of the C18 speak of -110db at 1hz, what are the specifications of the internal clock of the x26pro to make a comparison?


Most likely around - 70dB so not comparable. Hard to tell the exact oscillators used because they are hidden. But it is safe to say there is no built-in ocxo.


----------



## Miro102

But it's a huge difference! , the listening should change quite a bit.


----------



## FredA

Miro102 said:


> But it's a huge difference! , the listening should change quite a bit.


Better staging, more details and firmer bass. A more realistic sound.


----------



## GoldenOne

Miro102 said:


> I would like to ask one thing, on the Gustard c18 coupled to the X26pro, the specifications of the C18 speak of -110db at 1hz, what are the specifications of the internal clock of the x26pro to make a comparison?


It's not quite a simple comparison unfortunately.
That spec refers to phase noise of the clock, but there's a lot of other factors at play.
It doesn't tell you about the quality of the implementation, as various products using identical clocks can have quite different levels of performance depending on design. That spec is purely for the clock alone.
Additionally it doesn't reveal any information about deterministic jitter components. (Though this is more applicable to whole products rather than standalone oscillators)

Furthermore, it's a 10Mhz clock. 10Mhz cannot be evenly divided by 48khz or 44.1khz, and so a fractional PLL must be employed which is inherently not going to be a perfect process and the receiving device is going to play a big part in terms of what level of degradation is seen.

To be honest it'd be better if companies began using native word clocks rather than 10Mhz. 10Mhz was intended for keeping lots of devices in busy production environments in sync long term, not as a means of improving quality. Your DAC is still using an internal clock when a 10Mhz clock is connected.
An upgraded word clock, provided either via a DDC or a standalone clock has a higher performance ceiling as the converter can actually run off it directly and no fractional PLL is required.
Some companies like dCS do this which is nice, but it's a shame more companies don't go that route instead of 10Mhz.


----------



## Miro102

Thanks for the clarification, yes the thing is a little more complex than it seems.


----------



## Getafix (Oct 11, 2022)

What's even more complicated, every internal oscillator or clock can have little better or worse specs than advertised and it's up to luck what you get. Unless you have an external ocxo with certificate of measurement, the only proof is in the listening.


----------



## cglin222

Matthew Willims said:


> Changed the fuse for an SR Purple this evening and got an immediate enormous overall improvement from the 630ma Gustard fuse I previously had in there. Blown away by the improvement actually and that’s without any burn in!


So the sr purple fuse I should pick slow blow, correct?


----------



## cglin222

Matthew Willims said:


> Depends on whether you want it to blow if it needs to. Best to use original values where possible. Better for a fuse to die than the gear itself.


so it seems the default fuse u18 and c18 and x18 all came with 500ma? but the gustard's own upgraded is 630ma (no 500ma available), so does it matter getting 500 vs 630, any sonic differences?


----------



## Highfive99

cglin222 said:


> So the sr purple fuse I should pick slow blow, correct?


Yes.


----------



## Highfive99

cglin222 said:


> so it seems the default fuse u18 and c18 and x18 all came with 500ma? but the gustard's own upgraded is 630ma (no 500ma available), so does it matter getting 500 vs 630, any sonic differences?


No problem using a 630. If it made that much of difference I'm sure Gustard would have a gold 500 available instead the the off-the-shelf 500's they supply with their products. The quality of a fuse can make a sonic difference not it's amperage rating. Go for the purple, they do make a nice difference.


----------



## milkdudd

I know it's been mentioned on a couple of different threads but just in case somebody missed it. All this month they are on sale at highend electronics, buy two get one free. That's what I'm going to do probably today


----------



## cglin222 (Oct 12, 2022)

Highfive99 said:


> No problem using a 630. If it made that much of difference I'm sure Gustard would have a gold 500 available instead the the off-the-shelf 500's they supply with their products. The quality of a fuse can make a sonic difference not it's amperage rating. Go for the purple, they do make a nice difference.


ok, so should i got for 500 or 630 on the U18? Since another poster did mentioned the sale going on, which I am planning to get some, but just not sure what would 630 cause to the gear, or should I stick with 500ma... or I guess 130ma isn't going to blow up my gear, rather than fuse blowing up... but I guess it's always save to use the same default number..


----------



## milkdudd

cglin222 said:


> ok, so should i got for 500 or 630 on the U18? Since another poster did mentioned the sale going on, which I am planning to get some, but just not sure what would 630 cause to the gear, or should I stick with 500ma... or I guess 130ma isn't going to blow up my gear, rather than fuse blowing up... but I guess it's always save to use the same default number..


Many people have stated to get the 5x20 size 630ma slow blow. To ease your mind this is what your options would be if you were to purchase the Gustard brand upgrade fuses


----------



## cglin222

milkdudd said:


> Many people have stated to get the 5x20 size 630ma slow blow. To ease your mind this is what your options would be if you were to purchase the Gustard brand upgrade fuses


by the way, is there a direction on sr purple to insert the fuse.. I know in gustard's own fuse default or gold, there is arrow pointing, how do I know which way to put the SR purple?


----------



## cglin222

Crypt Keeper said:


> Yes,  2 fuses inside. The extra fuse is just a  spare ...
> 
> Q: Are fuses directional?
> 
> ...


so with the latest sr purple I should insert it this way? where the purple line in the SR logo points toward the arrow ->


----------



## cglin222

SKR987 said:


> Just got two fuses Purple and put them in U18 and X 18.. I could feel the difference immediately even without burn in. Looks like a leap forward in sonic improvements


why did you get 500 and 630 and not the same ma for both u18 and x18,


----------



## Highfive99

milkdudd said:


> I know it's been mentioned on a couple of different threads but just in case somebody missed it. All this month they are on sale at highend electronics, buy two get one free. That's what I'm going to do probably today


Not sure all retailers of SR offer this but https://www.thecableco.com/ has a 30 day return policy on the fuses. If you don't think they make a difference in your system....just send them back for a refund. I kept mine!


----------



## Highfive99

cglin222 said:


> so with the latest sr purple I should insert it this way? where the purple line in the SR logo points toward the arrow ->


Yes they are directional. Install it the way you indicated.


----------



## MartinWT

Reading the SR text the right way up, current goes from left to right.


----------



## EMINENT

U18 is for sale.


----------



## cglin222 (Oct 12, 2022)

EMINENT said:


> U18 is for sale.


I see you have r26 why sell u18 also Ferrum stack amp for sale, and you used ican pro sig too, are they not good, what are you using now?


----------



## EMINENT (Oct 12, 2022)

cglin222 said:


> I see you have r26 why sell u18 also Ferrum stack amp for sale, and you used ican pro sig too, are they not good, what are you using now?


I'm experimenting with different sources and gear. Also, consolidating as i'm about to build a new pc for HQP.


----------



## cglin222

EMINENT said:


> I'm experimenting with different sources and gear. Also, consolidating as i'm about to build a new pc for HQP.


So between Ferrum stack vs ican pro sig what are your thoughts which is better or differences in sq
Thinking between the two,


----------



## milkdudd

Highfive99 said:


> Not sure all retailers of SR offer this but https://www.thecableco.com/ has a 30 day return policy on the fuses. If you don't think they make a difference in your system....just send them back for a refund. I kept mine!


It seems all of the online retailers are honoring the sale and also offering 30-day return policy. Of course verify before ordering rather than following the lead of this nincompoop! I'm referring to me not Highfive99


----------



## Crypt Keeper

milkdudd said:


> I know it's been mentioned on a couple of different threads but just in case somebody missed it. All this month they are on sale at highend electronics, buy two get one free. That's what I'm going to do probably today


VH Audio as well  now . He was late on the promo


----------



## Crypt Keeper

cglin222 said:


> so it seems the default fuse u18 and c18 and x18 all came with 500ma? but the gustard's own upgraded is 630ma (no 500ma available), so does it matter getting 500 vs 630, any sonic differences?



I got 500 mA  for U18. B/c  the original fuse is 500 mA... If  you already purchased 630 mA   you should be fine...


----------



## EMINENT

cglin222 said:


> So between Ferrum stack vs ican pro sig what are your thoughts which is better or differences in sq
> Thinking between the two,


Both are very similar in sound. I'd say remote and Xbass are advantages. O/H a little more bass presence, maybe off memory.


----------



## cglin222

milkdudd said:


> Many people have stated to get the 5x20 size 630ma slow blow. To ease your mind this is what your options would be if you were to purchase the Gustard brand upgrade fuses


so gustard customer service also suggested  630 instead of 500, I mentioned that the default came in 500ma should I use default:

hello

U18/C18/X18：630mA
R26:3.15A

Best wishes
Customer Service 03


----------



## Getafix (Oct 16, 2022)

A minor detail: Using the i2s output in mode2 with Pegasus dac reverses absolute phase. In mode4 the absolute phase is "correct".


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Getafix said:


> A minor detail: Using the i2s output in mode2 with Pegasus dac reverses absolute phase. In mode4 the absolute phase is "correct".


Yes, that's that weird mismatch between my Aquarius  and U18 I had ... Been using mode 4   as well...


----------



## marcmccalmont

When my K50 outputs dsd 512/768 it is not converted to 256 for my coax output is there a way to do this?


----------



## marcmccalmont

cglin222 said:


> so gustard customer service also suggested  630 instead of 500, I mentioned that the default came in 500ma should I use default:
> 
> hello
> 
> ...


when I play 768 usb my U18 does not output 356 via coax?


----------



## MartinWT

marcmccalmont said:


> when I play 768 usb my U18 does not output 356 via coax?


I doubt that co-ax can handle that data rate.  You need at least AES and preferably I2S for that bandwidth.


----------



## marcmccalmont (Oct 23, 2022)

It plays dsd 128/pcm  356 no problem but when I play dsd256/pcm 768 there is no output? Shouldn’t it output a down sampled signal?


----------



## Getafix

U18 does not up or downsample.


----------



## marcmccalmont

Getafix said:


> U18 does not up or downsample.


Thanks


----------



## jgwtriode

Has anybody played with how isolation affects the u18.  Have one one the way.  Don't really feeling stacking it on top of the x 26 pro is the ideal way to isolate it.  I have my quite a few layers of isolation uder my X26 pro and it definetly makes a diffrence.   

jgwtriode


----------



## Metron

Has anyone used the U18 via USB to a source (e.g. a Mac) and then via either optical or coax to a DAC? Any sonic improvement?
Also, in such a connection configuration, which clock is it used: the DDC's or the DAC's?


----------



## MartinWT

I use Black Ravioli Big Pads under my X26 Pro and Black Ravioli Pads under the U18, with my master clock just to the right of the U18, both on top of the X26 Pro.  This keeps the I2S and clock cables ideally short.

Further, I have heavy weights on each item.


----------



## jgwtriode (Oct 24, 2022)

Agreed with weights.  I use an old power supply transformes in cast iron sheilded cans as weights.  One on top of my X26 pro and one on top of my computer.  7 layers of isolation under my computer, 11 under my DAC.  I went really nuts on this but I could hear the difference.  Put them together over 4 years of playing this game.   I even use brass, stainless steel and ceramic shims under my cones. I like a mix of brass and ceramic cones best under my shelves.

Final layer under my DAC is Mad Scientist Black pod nano footers, a trio facing up from my Mapleshade 4 inch thick maple block to a carbon fiber shelf and another trio facing down from the DAC.  The block sits on a trio of brass and ceramic cones with shims on my air isolation platform.  4 10" diameter air bladders filled about 1/3, They are sandwiched between 2 ikea lack table shelves.

That sits of a larger trio of brass and ceramic cones with shims on an Ikea birch kitchen table that had casters.  Cut it down and installed 2 lb brass spikes I have from an old pair of speakers.  I am thinking of using lack table legs I haves spiking them to the lack table air platform and then attaching that to a dual bamboo cutting boards sandwiching zirconia oxide bearing and one tungsten carbide in the juice grooves.  Saw that idea on you tube.        "Layers donkey layers!"

With all the things using bearings in their footers these days I am very curious.  And ironically, but not really those are the bearings my Mad Sci's use.   Had more money then sense/cents a few years ago and really went nuts with all the mapleshade stuff.   Did all their big heavy brass footers and then found the Mad Sci's which clobber them for about 1/2 to 2/3 the price.   But I still love what the Ambrosia maples blocks bring to the tables.(LOL)  I also have one of those in a similar set up under my computer without the carbon fiber shelf.   Use a single tungsten carbide Mad Sci under each of my solid state drives to the base of the computer braced to allow them to sit on a single point.  And even my ssd's are weighted with cooper blocks I had from an old gain clone project.  Paul Pang straps his SSD's to aluminum blocks.  Yes ssd's vibrate.  Put my fingers on them to check after reading some Paul Pang stuff.  I had these blocks, from an old gainclone amp project,  which are as long as an SSD's and 2/3's as wide.  Hot Damn.  Can no longer feel any vibration from them.

Have to tread more slowly now due to less income and more medical issues.  Don't get old....LOL!

I know pictures.  Okay system is a bit in flux right now...but I will show you from a year ago.  Basically the same now!


jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT (Oct 24, 2022)

I hear you about isolation and fully agree.  Here are my levels:

- Solid Tech Duo system rack, modified to take large RDC Cones onto a tiled/concrete floor
- Black Ravioli Base isolation shelf
- Electric Beach S1NX isolation platform on large RDC Cones into RDC Combi Bases
- X26 Pro on Black Ravioli Big Pads
- U18 on Black Ravioli Pads, AfterDark Emperor Triple Crown on Black Ravioli Pads
- Schramm weights on both
- Two grounding boxes for U18 and X26 Pro on Black Ravioli Pads with Schramm weights

I don't use spikes anywhere in my system, I find they adversely affect sound quality.


----------



## Highfive99

For anyone looking to upgrade their U18, MartinWT posted a site(https://coherent-systems.co.uk/services-upgrades/)in the X26Pro thread that does an upgrade that he spoke highly of. I contacted the technician, Tony, and got some details. He indicated he removes 18 components but somehow also installs 22 which brings a much lower noise floor, tighter bass and improved detail retrieval. His reply included 18 attachments of screenshots showing the lower noise floor for U18's he's already upgraded.
Being in the USA, the cost is currently $451USD (£400) plus shipping to and from England where he is located.

I am debating on this upgrade as with shipping it effectively doubles the cost of the U18. One of the things I like about the U18 is it's cost/performance ratio. I think it's the best bang for the buck DDC on the market. For me, it's a tough call on spending $500 to upgrade a device I spent $500 to purchase.


----------



## MartinWT

Tony is the proprietor of Coherent Systems.  The work is labour-intensive because of the compact nature of the U18's build.  I have seen the measurements of before and after noise levels and can attest to the 2.5X reduction in noise.  Far more important, it sounds like an upmarket model now with greatly enhanced soundstaging, detail and dynamics.

Is it worth it?  Only you can know.  It certainly was for me.


----------



## EMINENT

jgwtriode said:


> Agreed with weights.  I use an old power supply transformes in cast iron sheilded cans as weights.  One on top of my X26 pro and one on top of my computer.  7 layers of isolation under my computer, 11 under my DAC.  I went really nuts on this but I could hear the difference.  Put them together over 4 years of playing this game.   I even use brass, stainless steel and ceramic shims under my cones. I like a mix of brass and ceramic cones best under my shelves.
> 
> Final layer under my DAC is Mad Scientist Black pod nano footers, a trio facing up from my Mapleshade 4 inch thick maple block to a carbon fiber shelf and another trio facing down from the DAC.  The block sits on a trio of brass and ceramic cones with shims on my air isolation platform.  4 10" diameter air bladders filled about 1/3, They are sandwiched between 2 ikea lack table shelves.
> 
> ...



I love how the toilet is right there for quick access while listening.


----------



## milkdudd

EMINENT said:


> I love how the toilet is right there for quick access while listening.


This shows a person who has their priorities in place. Many people would put all that money into a fancy bathroom remodel, and then poop in silence. But not people like us!


----------



## T 1000 (Oct 24, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> I hear you about isolation and fully agree.  Here are my levels:
> 
> - Solid Tech Duo system rack, modified to take large RDC Cones onto a tiled/concrete floor
> - Black Ravioli Base isolation shelf
> ...


I wonder why you have weights on the grounding?
From so many weights you must have a heavy sound


----------



## MartinWT

Believe it or not, footers and weights on the grounding boxes make a difference.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

EMINENT said:


> I love how the toilet is right there for quick access while listening.



$hitpost


----------



## T 1000 (Oct 24, 2022)

Of course I believe
I didn't believe in many things related to Hi-Fi before, so I was convinced of the opposite.
When we have sensitive headphones or speakers, many things matter


----------



## jgwtriode (Oct 24, 2022)

EMINENT said:


> I love how the toilet is right there for quick access while listening.


Indeed!  Yes priorities.  Life is quite challenging at the moment and finances and career options are not where I would like right now so am renting a basement apartment right now.   Thats where the the bathroom is in the back corner of the room.  Can't complain too much.  Rent is cheap and I am on my own, so I don't have to account to anyone.  Music and audio are where I spend my disposable income.  Far less than it used to be.  Getting by but have to do more than just get by when it comes to listening priority.

On positive side I have direct concrete floor with 2 inch thick travertine tile flooring so I have a solid stucture under my stands.  No room for any thing but my Swan m 200 mk 3+ powered desktop speakers on cinder block stands.  Not seen in that picture.  Surprisingly good.  Otherwise just listening to my ZMF VC's on LOrdGwyn's  5998 OTL.

Happy listening get me through it all,

jgwtriode


----------



## Getafix (Oct 24, 2022)

Original feet of the U18 are quite easy to remove for optimal footer placement. There's a screw under the rubber if turning by hand doesn't loosen them.


----------



## jgwtriode (Oct 24, 2022)

milkdudd said:


> This shows a person who has their priorities in place. Many people would put all that money into a fancy bathroom remodel, and then poop in silence. But not people like us!




Iindeed!  Not myplace just renting the basement!


----------



## Highfive99

As a follow up to the prior post above regarding the U18 upgrade, I've pulled the plug on the idea due to shipping costs.  Per the UPS international shipping site, the cheapest UPS can ship from MA in the US to England in the smallest box I'd be comfortable shipping it in is a whopping $280. So with the addition of return shipping costs and any import fees that puts the upgrade over $800 USD or more depending on the return shipping cost.


----------



## jgwtriode (Oct 25, 2022)

Oh well had to do it after reading all the fuse recommendations and the fact that it would be way to long to wait for the upgrade Gustard fuse.  So saw VH audio is selling SR orange for 30% off with free shipping at that price point.  So there is my first upgrade.   I will wait for the next evolution of SR fuses to upgrade.  Will skip purple at this point.  Just a bit to rich for my wallet.  Spending this much for a fuse even at a discount seems mildly nuts.  But I have spent crazy on other things, so what the hell!



I have a couple of 300 dollar older Zenwave Audio Power Cords. I will throw the better of the two on the u18 and run my computer off the lesser one and go back to regular power cord on the charging switching supply of my Cuinas SuperCap ISO supply which runs my JCAT USB XE and my SSD's.

This thing beat my Uptone LPS 1.2 and puts out over 4Amps of current.  John Kinney is out of business unfortunately,  but will sell me another when I grab my JCAT Network XE around tax time.

I may have to play with how the U18  sounds with a Wywire Platinum Cord plugged in.  Just waiting for a repair to my Wywires Platinum Headphone cable from Alex.  So running thing into my Swan 5" powered 2 ways right nowl.  I have Platinum Power Cords for the DAC and my OTL amp.  Very happy with Wywires.

Will back off my Isolation and just seperate the X26 pro and the U18 with Cones or Isolation pads.  Will play with the tunning. I Have Mapleshade pads, (Glorified 3M air conditioner pads).  Pierre at Mapleshade is a theif on those.  You can buy them from air conditioner supplier of Amazon for any where from 1/4 to 1/10th of the price.  He is charging 36 bucks a set for the cork rubber ones.   Ironically 3M makes a version with a blue foam core that works a bit better....LOL.  I told Pierre about that and he was in shock.  Hahaha.

I also have some golden sound pads and I tend to use a mix of their cones with various brass ones also have some Delrin cones a guy machined for me.  So I will play around.  Discarding the extended upper shelf idea with bamboo cutting boards and ceramic bearings.  I think I will get more out of changing the fuse.

The tweaking never ends.  Limited only by the dollars and to a lesser degree the ear and imagination.

Oh yeah btw:  DHL international express notified me my U18 and After Dark I2S Giseman cable will be hear Thursday!

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## jgwtriode

JaMo said:


> More than 50 hours now.
> 
> Better upper register with some air but now also a little recessed bass. The width and depth, separation is still very good for being these first days. The sound is clear and easy to the ears and shows (flashes) its capabilities now and then. I look very much forward to when the U18 have stabilized and hopefully come to "a blossom" where it can involve me more to the music in a more emotional aspect. It is doing much better than I could expect or hope for, this early in the burn in cycle. A set back-period shouldn't be too surprising. I am playing all kinds of quality music recordings in different formats on this box and it is already very enjoyable and is already also showing high end qualities. This piece of gear show already it has a very high performance standard both on internal and on external XO's.
> 
> ...


Try downloading The Tara Labs Cascade Burn in track.   It's free on their site.  Read their explanation of why it works better.  Best burn in track I have found.

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## T 1000 (Oct 25, 2022)

jgwtriode said:


> Oh well had to do it after reading all the fuse recommendations and the fact that it would be way to long to wait for the upgrade Gustard fuse.  So saw VH audio is selling SR orange for 30% off with free shipping at that price point.  So there is my first upgrade.   I will wait for the next evolution of SR fuses to upgrade.  Will skip purple at this point.  Just a bit to rich for my wallet.  Spending this much for a fuse even at a discount seems mildly nuts.  But I have spent crazy on other things, so what the hell!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would recommend purple because I know what it brings, but I assume you will be satisfied with SR Orange as well.
Fuses are the stars of upgrades, they contribute the most for the invested money.
It will be a lucky investment for you whichever one you decide on


----------



## Highfive99

T 1000 said:


> I would recommend purple because I know what it brings, but I assume you will be satisfied with SR Orange as well.
> Fuses are the stars of upgrades, they contribute the most for the invested money.
> It will be a lucky investment for you whichever one you decide on


When I researched fuses, people on forums that had Orange fuses overwhelmingly liked the Purple more after getting them. Also SR mentioned it took quite a while to improve upon the Orange (or Blue whatever was their best before the Purple) and they weren't even sure they could improve it. So I wouldn't expect them to come out with anything improved over the Purple anytime soon if at all.


----------



## milkdudd

I took the plunge and ordered three SR Purples from VH Audio for my C18/U18/A22 stack. $399.90 shipped. Even though it's a great deal compared to paying full price, I need to keep this a secret from family and friends so they don't have me committed to an institution. Might try to sell me magic beans or a hen that lays golden eggs if they knew, or tell me how they got a whole box of fuses for $6 at AutoZone. With that said, would you guys throw in all three fuses at once or do it one at a time to take note of how much improvement each device realized? And just a reminder, how many hours do they take to hit full stride? I'm guessing that's hours with music flowing through them, not just plugged in? Thanks in advance as always


----------



## T 1000

Highfive99 said:


> When I researched fuses, people on forums that had Orange fuses overwhelmingly liked the Purple more after getting them. Also SR mentioned it took quite a while to improve upon the Orange (or Blue whatever was their best before the Purple) and they weren't even sure they could improve it. So I wouldn't expect them to come out with anything improved over the Purple anytime soon if at all.


And now that I'm not young anymore, I like to fantasize, I imagine how headphones and speakers will sound in 100 years, and it's an exciting adventure that includes the kind of music that will be created.
The desire for advancement will always be in the nature of engineers and consumers.
Some other wire will appear, in a different environment, and until then I am very satisfied with the current one.


----------



## EMINENT

milkdudd said:


> I took the plunge and ordered three SR Purples from VH Audio for my C18/U18/A22 stack. $399.90 shipped. Even though it's a great deal compared to paying full price, I need to keep this a secret from family and friends so they don't have me committed to an institution. Might try to sell me magic beans or a hen that lays golden eggs if they knew, or tell me how they got a whole box of fuses for $6 at AutoZone. With that said, would you guys throw in all three fuses at once or do it one at a time to take note of how much improvement each device realized? And just a reminder, how many hours do they take to hit full stride? I'm guessing that's hours with music flowing through them, not just plugged in? Thanks in advance as always



Three fuses same time!


----------



## MartinWT

One at a time and make note of the kinds of change after each one. Useful, and you get three separate treats!


----------



## milkdudd

EMINENT said:


> Three fuses same time!


Both strategies (put fuses in all at once or one at a time) make sense in different ways. When I see 300 hours break in time I wouldn't want to do that three separate times. So I thought of a third option. Put all three in and get all the break-in hours over with. Then pull them all out and listen with the original fuses for a few hours. Then put the broken-in fuses back in one of the time and take note of the improvements. Am I overthinking this like usual? Also this got me thinking maybe the power amplifier in my stereo room could benefit from an upgrade fuse. So I went to YouTube to watch some videos on that subject and I saw a British fellow who coated both the fuses and the sockets with Deoxit Gold brush on liquid before installing them. If it's certain to not damage anything it could also go on interconnects and speaker cable connections. Opinions?


----------



## T 1000 (Oct 25, 2022)

I occasionally use Deoxit Gold in a spray, and I always hear a change, especially in the highs.
I am waiting for Furutech Liquid Nano to be delivered to me


----------



## jgwtriode

Wish I had the money right now to do the purple fuse offer.  Could throw a couple of SR purples in my OTL and do the freebie in my U18.  But that would require almost 4 times what I spent for the orange.  So I will enjoy the orange at least until taxtime and then we shall see.   Hopefully VH audio will have some perk, but I doubt it.

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## jgwtriode

milkdudd said:


> Both strategies (put fuses in all at once or one at a time) make sense in different ways. When I see 300 hours break in time I wouldn't want to do that three separate times. So I thought of a third option. Put all three in and get all the break-in hours over with. Then pull them all out and listen with the original fuses for a few hours. Then put the broken-in fuses back in one of the time and take note of the improvements. Am I overthinking this like usual? Also this got me thinking maybe the power amplifier in my stereo room could benefit from an upgrade fuse. So I went to YouTube to watch some videos on that subject and I saw a British fellow who coated both the fuses and the sockets with Deoxit Gold brush on liquid before installing them. If it's certain to not damage anything it could also go on interconnects and speaker cable connections. Opinions?


Of course I will treat the fuse with Mad Scientist Graphene Contact Enhancer.  My favorite that I have tried.

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## Crypt Keeper

milkdudd said:


> I took the plunge and ordered three SR Purples from VH Audio for my C18/U18/A22 stack. $399.90 shipped. Even though it's a great deal compared to paying full price, I need to keep this a secret from family and friends so they don't have me committed to an institution. Might try to sell me magic beans or a hen that lays golden eggs if they knew, or tell me how they got a whole box of fuses for $6 at AutoZone. With that said, would you guys throw in all three fuses at once or do it one at a time to take note of how much improvement each device realized? And just a reminder, how many hours do they take to hit full stride? I'm guessing that's hours with music flowing through them, not just plugged in? Thanks in advance as always


2  weeks ...  maybe 3... no less than 300 Hrs ....


----------



## Crypt Keeper

T 1000 said:


> I occasionally use Deoxit Gold in a spray, and I always hear a change, especially in the highs.
> I am waiting for Furutech Liquid Nano to be delivered to me


SR Purple + The nano liquid = Powerful combo … I applied the nano to all fuses I have … There is some burn-in time for the nano as well …


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Oct 25, 2022)

jgwtriode said:


> Wish I had the money right now to do the purple fuse offer.  Could throw a couple of SR purples in my OTL and do the freebie in my U18.  But that would require almost 4 times what I spent for the orange.  So I will enjoy the orange at least until taxtime and then we shall see.   Hopefully VH audio will have some perk, but I doubt it.
> 
> Happy listening,
> 
> jgwtriode


Aucharms “High-end HIFI Gold Silver Nano Oil Immersion Fuse” @ $75 will probably better the SR Orange … Aliexpress item # 3256803140632693

But no fuse I’m aware of, except Cross Point High End Fuse can better the Purple ….


----------



## milkdudd

My stereo room is sounding better than I ever thought it could, and I'm expecting more improvements with the purple fuses and some DH labs Revelation silver XLR interconnects I found pre-owned that are on the way. Now in my mid-60s I just might be approaching my end game audio system (I know we all say that). Seeing four or five different options for contact enhancement liquids I would like to choose one that is more or less permanent. Is there one brand more likely that one application would be all I would ever need? I'd probably coat everything, fuses, interconnects, speaker cables, power cables and maybe even my USB cable but don't want to have to do that repeatedly. Is there one brand likely to suit these needs?


----------



## jgwtriode

milkdudd said:


> My stereo room is sounding better than I ever thought it could, and I'm expecting more improvements with the purple fuses and some DH labs Revelation silver XLR interconnects I found pre-owned that are on the way. Now in my mid-60s I just might be approaching my end game audio system (I know we all say that). Seeing four or five different options for contact enhancement liquids I would like to choose one that is more or less permanent. Is there one brand more likely that one application would be all I would ever need? I'd probably coat everything, fuses, interconnects, speaker cables, power cables and maybe even my USB cable but don't want to have to do that repeatedly. Is there one brand likely to suit these needs?





Crypt Keeper said:


> Aucharms “High-end HIFI Gold Silver Nano Oil Immersion Fuse” @ $75 will probably better the SR Orange … Aliexpress item # 3256803140632693
> 
> But no fuse I’m aware of, except Cross Point High End Fuse can better the Purple ….


https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...r-expensive-products.33833/page-3#post-756041

Okay here is commentary on the QSA fuses from hong kong.  $1500, $5000 and $10,000 fuses and he compares the level of improvement with other significant upgrades suggesting they make bigger diffrences.  Compares them with the SR Orange.

Happy reading and pondering.  Forever out of my wheelhouse.  

jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT

jgwtriode said:


> Of course I will treat the fuse with Mad Scientist Graphene Contact Enhancer.  My favorite that I have tried.



Mine, too. I use it for all of my contacts.


----------



## Jon L

jgwtriode said:


> https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...r-expensive-products.33833/page-3#post-756041
> 
> Okay here is commentary on the QSA fuses from hong kong.  $1500, $5000 and $10,000 fuses and he compares the level of improvement with other significant upgrades suggesting they make bigger diffrences.  Compares them with the SR Orange.


$10,000 In real U.S. dollars for one fuse...  And here I was, thinking Synergistic was taking advantage of audiophiles with the $200 fuse


----------



## MartinWT

For me, reality hits.  I could afford SR Purples for my core digital components and SR Oranges for all others, but I cannot afford these QSA fuses.  I shall have to remain oblivious to their goodness.  I don't feel hard done by.


----------



## Getafix

Lowering of the noise floor is the immediate thing I noticed after inserting the purple fuse. And soon forgot all about it and now thinking how I could tweak my system further. The happiness was short lived.


----------



## MartinWT

Getafix said:


> Lowering of the noise floor is the immediate thing I noticed after inserting the purple fuse. And soon forgot all about it and now thinking how I could tweak my system further. The happiness was short lived.


A grounding box each on the U18 and your DAC will lower the noise floor further.


----------



## Highfive99 (Oct 26, 2022)

Crypt Keeper said:


> SR Purple + The nano liquid = Powerful combo … I applied the nano to all fuses I have … There is some burn-in time for the nano as well …


Here's another plug for the nano juice. I was extremely skeptical of fuses when I was researching them. But with the SR 30 trial period, what's to lose? And I wound up keeping them. I heard an immediate difference that got better with burn in. These are power fuses so the devices just have to be on for burn in. No need for music.  As for the nano juice, well, no 30 trial but I don't believe I read 1 negative post on any forum about the stuff other than from people who deny the validity of these types of tweaks without actually trying them. There will always be deniers. I put the stuff on everything from AC power cords connectionsd through the entire signal chain right on to the banana plugs of my speakers. Next up is pulling the xovers and drivers out and doing those internal connections. The stuff also requires burn in but makes a difference akin to a fuse upgrade at least in my system it did. YMMV.

BTW Nano Particle Solution NPS-Q45T is the juice I got.  They just came out with a new and improved formula earlier this year after it wasn't available for some time. After much due diligence, this stuff was most the highly spoken of by users on forums that I could find. Pricey but you get enough to last at least 5 lifetimes as little of it goes a long way.


----------



## Highfive99 (Oct 26, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> A grounding box each on the U18 and your DAC will lower the noise floor further.


Can 1 box handle both devices or is it just better to ground to separate boxes? Also how are the boxes themselves grounded? I would think they require grounding and are not standalone boxes.


----------



## Highfive99

Jon L said:


> $10,000 In real U.S. dollars for one fuse...  And here I was, thinking Synergistic was taking advantage of audiophiles with the $200 fuse


And given how good the Purple fuses are, I'd bet a doughnut you'd struggle to hear a $9800 difference between the 2.


----------



## MartinWT

Highfive99 said:


> Can 1 box handle both devices or is it just better to ground to separate boxes? Also how are the boxes themselves grounded? I would think they require grounding and are not standalone boxes.


One box per component. 

They are not grounded, they act as the ground.


----------



## jgwtriode (Oct 26, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> For me, reality hits.  I could afford SR Purples for my core digital components and SR Oranges for all others, but I cannot afford these QSA fuses.  I shall have to remain oblivious to their goodness.  I don't feel hard done by.


I have read a couple of peoples comments on the Audio Magic M1 beeswax fuse.  Handmade one at a time.  $300.  They say its a noticeable step up from the Purple.
A bit more in the realm of reality.

How much are the grounding boxes and who make them?

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Oct 26, 2022)

I'm ok with $133 per SR purple (I have 8) and $75 for Aucharms nano silver-gold, but anything above $200 for a fuse is just lil' bit too much for the system I have ATM... Thanks for the info.


----------



## MartinWT

jgwtriode said:


> How much are the grounding boxes and who make them?



I have various ones. The best are the Quartz Acoustics from Singapore. Also good are the Aucharm and Aucharm XL from AliExpress. Prices and the £ have changed so much recently I couldn't tell you what you'd pay in $.


----------



## Highfive99

MartinWT said:


> One box per component.
> 
> They are not grounded, they act as the ground.


I'm puzzled as to how they can act as a ground if they aren't somehow physically grounded to earth.


----------



## MartinWT (Oct 26, 2022)

Highfive99 said:


> I'm puzzled as to how they can act as a ground if they aren't somehow physically grounded to earth.



The Earth itself floats in space, not grounded to anything else.  Think of a grounding box as a micro version, sucking out and absorbing into heat high frequency noise away from noisy ground planes.


----------



## Jon L

Crypt Keeper said:


> I'm ok with $133 per SR purple (I have 8) and $75 for Aucharms nano silver-gold, but anything above $200 for a fuse is just lil' bit too much for the system I have ATM... Thanks for the info.


Is that Aucharm the one in oil? Not as good as Purple?


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Jon L said:


> Is that Aucharm the one in oil? Not as good as Purple?


No. The purple is better, but it beats the orange, IMHO


----------



## Metron

Could anyone clarify this about U18, please: if I connect U18 to a DAC via either coax or optical (the DAC has no IIS) will the U18 employ its advanced clock to sync the audio signal to the DAC, will the DAC do the clocking, or will both devices re-clock? What's the difference in using IIS in this respect?


----------



## jgwtriode (Oct 27, 2022)

Well surprise! My U18 showed at lunchtime, fortunately I work from home.  After Dark shipped it from Hong Kong on Monday and it was here Wednesday.  One day early and they shipped it free for me.  DHL international express.  Impressive.    
It immediately sounds better and with a few hours of playing music continuously it sounds much better than it first.   I am running it with a 350 dollar Zenwave Audio. Neotech flat cottn wrap OCC copper power cable that is pretty good.  But I threw the 1000 dollar Wywires platinum in for a few minutes and definetly cleaner more neutral bigger stage, more dynamic.  But I don't want get to carried away.  That is my Headphone OTL amp cord.  

But once this system burns in and I have my wywires headphone cable back and reburned I will have to see where the better cord makes the biggest diffrence.  Already have the digital version on My X pro 26 with thier Diamond USB going into the u18.  

Burning the After Dark Giseman Mk2 I2S cable.   I liked what they explained about the design comprable with the best DH Labs, the Audioquest in overall approach gauge and metals but has carbon fiber sheilding in it.   The others didn't.  I have heard carbon fiber as a conductor in some Mad Sci prototype cables and as a sheild along with graphene in the Wywires.  I like what does for the sound and the noise floor so dropped some extra over the Dh Labs 2.1 IDS which i seriously considered.   

The sound is much better already, noticeably more relaxed and organic, bigger stage, a bit more detail more air everywhere,, tighter fuller more textured bass.  Sound has more weight and presence.  Images are a bit more fleshed out as well.  PRAT a bit better.  Another 200 hours or so to real see what the fuss is about.   I am impressed.   And After Dark audio was great. 

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT

Metron said:


> Could anyone clarify this about U18, please: if I connect U18 to a DAC via either coax or optical (the DAC has no IIS) will the U18 employ its advanced clock to sync the audio signal to the DAC, will the DAC do the clocking, or will both devices re-clock? What's the difference in using IIS in this respect?


The only way you can sync clocks is by using the I2S connection where the U18 sends the master clock back through to the DAC.

With S/PDIF, the DAC will extract and lock onto the signal clock but it's different from syncing everything to a master clock.


----------



## Metron

MartinWT said:


> The only way you can sync clocks is by using the I2S connection where the U18 sends the master clock back through to the DAC.
> 
> With S/PDIF, the DAC will extract and lock onto the signal clock but it's different from syncing everything to a master clock.



So, will the U18 re-clock the usb signal from a computer before sending it to the DAC?


----------



## MartinWT

Metron said:


> So, will the U18 re-clock the usb signal from a computer before sending it to the DAC?


Yes, using its own internal clock or (better) an external clock.


----------



## Metron

MartinWT said:


> Yes, using its own internal clock or (better) an external clock.


Is it possible that the receiving DAC will also re-clock the signal from the DDC?


----------



## MartinWT

Metron said:


> Is it possible that the receiving DAC will also re-clock the signal from the DDC?



It will apply its own clock, or an external clock, or the clock coming through I2S, to its DAC circuits, yes.

The trick is to re-clock along the digital chain to reduce noise as much as possible.  I use an EtherREGEN and a U18 to accomplish this, as well as an optical link.


----------



## Metron

MartinWT said:


> It will apply its own clock, or an external clock, or the clock coming through I2S, to its DAC circuits, yes.
> 
> The trick is to re-clock along the digital chain to reduce noise as much as possible.  I use an EtherREGEN and a U18 to accomplish this, as well as an optical link.


Would this double re-clocking potentially degrade the audio signal, or is it always a good thing (provided that both DDC and DAC have decent clocking units)?


----------



## MartinWT

Metron said:


> Would this double re-clocking potentially degrade the audio signal, or is it always a good thing (provided that both DDC and DAC have decent clocking units)?



In my experience, it's a good thing.  Each stage reduces noise (both phase noise and jitter) but you want the best reclocker (the DDC) and best clock closest to the DAC.  In other words, quality progressively ramps up towards the DAC.


----------



## Metron

MartinWT said:


> In my experience, it's a good thing.  Each stage reduces noise (both phase noise and jitter) but you want the best reclocker (the DDC) and best clock closest to the DAC.  In other words, quality progressively ramps up towards the DAC.


This was a quite educational and constructive exchange for me, thank you.
On a similar topic, I've searched quite a bit but have not managed to find out whether the previous model (U16) has also an electrically isolated USB port; any ideas?


----------



## MartinWT

Metron said:


> On a similar topic, I've searched quite a bit but have not managed to find out whether the previous model (U16) has also an electrically isolated USB port; any ideas?


Sorry, no idea.


----------



## Metron

MartinWT said:


> Sorry, no idea.


That's OK, hopefully someone else might know.


----------



## richie60

A new toy arrived this morning, as I'm using the Topping D70S for now until I upgrade, would anyone know what mode I'd need to set for i2s?


----------



## Highfive99

Metron said:


> On a similar topic, I've searched quite a bit but have not managed to find out whether the previous model (U16) has also an electrically isolated USB port; any ideas?


I believe not as Gustard's product info for U18 mentions the isolation where it does not for U16. Probably part of why the U16 sold for $200 less than the U18. I picked up a used U16 for $150 before the U18 came out and still have it but it gets blown away by the U18. But it was better than no DDC.


----------



## ProLoL

Does the U18 has pops and clicks like the U16?


----------



## Highfive99

ProLoL said:


> Does the U18 has pops and clicks like the U16?


????

 Neither my U16 nor my U18 ever had any pops or clicks in my system.


----------



## T 1000

jgwtriode said:


> Wish I had the money right now to do the purple fuse offer.  Could throw a couple of SR purples in my OTL and do the freebie in my U18.  But that would require almost 4 times what I spent for the orange.  So I will enjoy the orange at least until taxtime and then we shall see.   Hopefully VH audio will have some perk, but I doubt it.
> 
> Happy listening,
> 
> jgwtriode


User's opinion on another thread
@ Tubewin - " I have the Synergistic orange fuses installed in my pegasus. I've tried the Purple fuses and still have some purple fuses in my linear power supplies and power strips (ps powerplant 3) but the purple thinned out the sound a little too much on my dacs. The mid range seemed to become a little more recessed while the space got bigger. That might be what you're after, but I prefer a more forward mid range, more tangible, more coherent. The orange fuses did that while also adding clarity from the stock fuse."


----------



## jgwtriode

T 1000 said:


> User's opinion on another thread
> @ Tubewin - " I have the Synergistic orange fuses installed in my pegasus. I've tried the Purple fuses and still have some purple fuses in my linear power supplies and power strips (ps powerplant 3) but the purple thinned out the sound a little too much on my dacs. The mid range seemed to become a little more recessed while the space got bigger. That might be what you're after, but I prefer a more forward mid range, more tangible, more coherent. The orange fuses did that while also adding clarity from the stock fuse."


Appreciate that....thanks for the info


----------



## jgwtriode

12 hours in on the burn in of my U18 and the new IDS cable.  Wow!  Half music, half Tara Labs Cascade Burn in Track.   Stage becomes more square, no longer rounded in the back corners.  Detail and space across the back wall, more heigth and more depth.  More solid images and more fleshed out.  Meat on the bone!  Buttery smooth and  Airy.  Dynamics much improved,  noise floor dropped.  Instrument tone, texture and harmonics more vivid and alive, much more like real instruments and voices in the room.  Highs clear and etched without brightness, more pleasing subtle sweetness in the ambiance.   Midrange palpable dense, subtley warm without impinging on the neutrality or integration with other frequencies, actually even more so now.  Bass sounds extended but the Swans I'm playing on are only active 5's.  But more kick, punch texture and size.  You can hear the size of instrument more correctly.     And it will get better.  Unreal!

jgwtriode


----------



## T 1000

The thing with noise is really interesting, when you think you've solved it, with the next upgrade it turns out you haven't, and that's how the sound always becomes more fascinating.
From my components before adding the cables and the U18, to this point, it's a far more refined sound


----------



## Turbo2288

Hi all,
I just received my U18 couple days ago and came across this thread, I have some questions:
1: I just realized U18 does not have a USB output,  and my dac has no AES nor I2S input   , is Coaxial any good at all ?
2: Should I buy a better coaxial cable, or just shop for a better dac?
3: It arrived with no manual or instructions of any kind, is that normal?
I am using a pc & also mac mini to play Tidal & music files.
Any input will be appreciated.
Thank you everyone!


----------



## jgwtriode (Oct 28, 2022)

Turbo2288 said:


> Hi all,
> I just received my U18 couple days ago and came across this thread, I have some questions:
> 1: I just realized U18 does not have a USB output,  and my dac has no AES nor I2S input   , is Coaxial any good at all ?
> 2: Should I buy a better coaxial cable, or just shop for a better dac?
> ...


Just type Gustard U 18 DDC manul  in a browser...it will take you to Shenzen audio where you can download it! 

Drivers are also on that site if you want to download them directly instead of using the disc.  Sadly you only get it's full benefit with the I2S connector because it effectively reclocks your DAC to a much higher standard through the I2S connection! 

Get a used Gustard, plenty on sale with the introduction of their new R2R or just buy it.  Hard pressed to think of a Dac under 3K that will likely be better than that. 

I would get it, but very content with my EVS modded X26 pro and the U18, 


Happy listening.


----------



## Metron

Turbo2288 said:


> Hi all,
> I just received my U18 couple days ago and came across this thread, I have some questions:
> 1: I just realized U18 does not have a USB output,  and my dac has no AES nor I2S input   , is Coaxial any good at all ?
> 2: Should I buy a better coaxial cable, or just shop for a better dac?
> ...


IIS is not the only meaningful way to connect U18 to your DAC. Try coax and toslink and see how it sounds; you might be pleasantly surprised. DDC units do not output via USB, it does not make much sense to do so. Also do not spend much on the coax/toslink cable, it’s more than enough US $75, or less.


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Turbo2288 said:


> Hi all,
> I just received my U18 couple days ago and came across this thread, I have some questions:
> 1: I just realized U18 does not have a USB output,  and my dac has no AES nor I2S input   , is Coaxial any good at all ?
> 2: Should I buy a better coaxial cable, or just shop for a better dac?
> ...


Better get a DAC with I2S and get a Good 10 MHZ clock on U18 if you want to unleash it... Good clock and I2S cables will be required as well … Received Tubulus Concentus i2s today…


----------



## T 1000

Metron said:


> IIS is not the only meaningful way to connect U18 to your DAC. Try coax and toslink and see how it sounds; you might be pleasantly surprised. DDC units do not output via USB, it does not make much sense to do so. Also do not spend much on the coax/toslink cable, it’s more than enough US $75, or less.


Without intending to start a cable discussion, why do you think a cheap cable is satisfactory?


----------



## Crypt Keeper

richie60 said:


> A new toy arrived this morning, as I'm using the Topping D70S for now until I upgrade, would anyone know what mode I'd need to set for i2s?


 Try #4...   I used to get some weird mismatch with #2, and #1 (Gustard mode) only good for Gustard gears. If L and R not reversed #3 should be fine as well


----------



## Metron

T 1000 said:


> Without intending to start a cable discussion, why do you think a cheap cable is satisfactory


It’s a misunderstanding. I did not state or imply that I’m in favour of cheap interconnect cables. I think that cables do make a difference within reason but that their cost should be analogous to the overall cost of the components they’re used on. A Gustard U18 costs $500 and it’s likely/expected to be used on $300-$1200 DACs, so a $75 or less (depending on special offers etc) coax/toslink cable is sufficiently good quality for such a system. E.g., an Audioquest Cinnamon coax or a QED Performance Graphite optical are high quality cables, there’s no need to go crazy.


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Oct 28, 2022)

U18 Is very special… I’m not even sure if audio-gd DI-20HE will better it in my setup due to the sine/square wave clock signal req… it needs very good cables . I’m using it with AS Silver signature USB, Tubulus Concentus i2s, SOtm dCBL-BNC 50 and AQ Dragon AC cord clone…


----------



## Jake2

MartinWT said:


> Tony is the proprietor of Coherent Systems.  The work is labour-intensive because of the compact nature of the U18's build.  I have seen the measurements of before and after noise levels and can attest to the 2.5X reduction in noise.  Far more important, it sounds like an upmarket model now with greatly enhanced soundstaging, detail and dynamics.
> 
> Is it worth it?  Only you can know.  It certainly was for me.


Hi Martin,

I recently posted a question on the U18 in the DI20HE thread of all places (have been following an external clocking conversation there), asking questions I realise you may be uniquely well placed to answer:

How much does using a PS Audio Powerplant 3 improve the U18, does it reach or exceed the level of the DI20HE when both are used with a quality external clock? Of course I wouldn’t just used the PP3 for the U18, but let’s start there.
The mods you describe, how much further do they take it? 
My use case is a very recently built up and still evolving system… currently HQplayer on Mac Mini M1 > Ifi Zen Stream > U18 > Gustard R26/SMSL VMV D2 > placeholder amp > Focal Sopras, with the LHY OCK-1 clocking both the DACs & U18. And a few ifi Power X’s in the mix.


----------



## T 1000 (Oct 28, 2022)

Metron said:


> It’s a misunderstanding. I did not state or imply that I’m in favour of cheap interconnect cables. I think that cables do make a difference within reason but that their cost should be analogous to the overall cost of the components they’re used on. A Gustard U18 costs $500 and it’s likely/expected to be used on $300-$1200 DACs, so a $75 or less (depending on special offers etc) coax/toslink cable is sufficiently good quality for such a system. E.g., an Audioquest Cinnamon coax or a QED Performance Graphite optical are high quality cables, there’s no need to go crazy.


Of course, but regardless of the price of the component, everyone will spend as much as they can for a cable (any), and better cables bring more.
The cables in my system (including the power strip) are 2/3 of the total value, and I know that I invested that money in better components, and with worse cables, I wouldn't have the sound quality I have now.
And I still have a lot of investment in eliminating various "junk" that is currently entering my system.
 It's fascinating, how much an ordinary system can sound HI-END

In response to your comment, it's just a view from different perspectives, and we're both right

For cheap deals, Supra, Mogami...are the ones to consider.

Be in a good mood


----------



## Metron (Oct 28, 2022)

T 1000 said:


> Of course, but regardless of the price of the component, everyone will spend as much as they can for a cable (any), and better cables bring more.
> The cables in my system (including the power strip) are 2/3 of the total value, and I know that I invested that money in better components, and with worse cables, I wouldn't have the sound quality I have now.
> And I still have a lot of investment in eliminating various "junk" that is currently entering my system.
> It's fascinating, how much an ordinary system can sound HI-END
> ...


I think we’re both on the same side on this matter.  However, in the scheme of things, cables have the least impact on the chain compared to the rest, so I invest on cables according to the impact the make, around 10%. Spending too much on cables makes little sense when funds can be invested on a better DAC or Amplifier, or even a power supply. I’ve seen people with low mid-tier or entry-level systems spending hundreds of dollars on cables, it’s just inefficient, truly wasted money.
(Now, I think we are way off topic on this thread, so I’d better stop here.)


----------



## MartinWT

Jake2 said:


> How much does using a PS Audio Powerplant 3 improve the U18, does it reach or exceed the level of the DI20HE when both are used with a quality external clock? Of course I wouldn’t just used the PP3 for the U18, but let’s start there.
> The mods you describe, how much further do they take it?


Hi Jake

I can't easily answer that question as the P3 (and P10) have been in my system for a number of years.  Therefore, the U18 is new to the system, not the regenerator.  I will say, generally, that having my system running solely on regenerated power is essential for achieving the calibre of sound I get.  I would never build a system without regenerated power.
The Coherent modifications to the U18 made a fairly significant improvement to an already good DDC.  I have never heard a DI-20HE in my system so cannot comment, but others put a fully burned-in U18 at a similar level so I would expect the Coherent modified U18 to push it hard.


----------



## Jake2

MartinWT said:


> Hi Jake
> 
> I can't easily answer that question as the P3 (and P10) have been in my system for a number of years.  Therefore, the U18 is new to the system, not the regenerator.  I will say, generally, that having my system running solely on regenerated power is essential for achieving the calibre of sound I get.  I would never build a system without regenerated power.
> The Coherent modifications to the U18 made a fairly significant improvement to an already good DDC.  I have never heard a DI-20HE in my system so cannot comment, but others put a fully burned-in U18 at a similar level so I would expect the Coherent modified U18 to push it hard.


Thanks Martin. I find I keep coming back to the idea of regeneration for the front end at least, as I definitely experience the phenomenon of a perceived higher quality, smoother sound late at night, though that may be partly due to the IPA or pinot at hand.


----------



## MartinWT

Jake2 said:


> I find I keep coming back to the idea of regeneration for the front end at least, as I definitely experience the phenomenon of a perceived higher quality, smoother sound late at night, though that may be partly due to the IPA or pinot at hand.



The P3 is a great regenerator for source components and I would say that's where the greatest bang for buck lies.  I use a P10 for my power amp, which is best kept separate anyway.

A good IPA to hand is always an excellent enhancement for the music!


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## jgwtriode (Oct 28, 2022)

Metron said:


> It’s a misunderstanding. I did not state or imply that I’m in favour of cheap interconnect cables. I think that cables do make a difference within reason but that their cost should be analogous to the overall cost of the components they’re used on. A Gustard U18 costs $500 and it’s likely/expected to be used on $300-$1200 DACs, so a $75 or less (depending on special offers etc) coax/toslink cable is sufficiently good quality for such a system. E.g., an Audioquest Cinnamon coax or a QED Performance Graphite optical are high quality cables, there’s no need to go crazy.


Yeah sort of makes sense, but you would tend to find scale of economies and scalibility of audio components do not always correlate.

I run a few crazy things in front of my DAC that are disproportionate to the cost.  I have a JCAT USB XE card with a Wywires Diamond USB Cable. $1700  cable it is much better than their $1000 dollar cable. That goes into my U18.  The I2S cable  is quite good but only $200.00.  And of course the X26 Pro is 1500 with a 500 dollar EVS modification.  I Run $1000 dollar Wywires Platinum power cords into them.  Why?

As Alex, the owner suggests power cords can make a bigger diffrence then your other cables.  I have found that to be surpisingly true.  And here is the kicker.  MY real love is my ZMF VC's with a $2700 OTL headphone amp.  While I am waiting for my headphone cable to be repaired I am listening to this through a $500 pair of desktop Swan m200 Mk3+'s.  These convert analog signal back to digital.  All inputs run their 96k/24bit internal DAC.   Yup and the sound still substanially improved with each of these upgrades.   

I frequently listen to them even when the headphone system is up.   And oh yeah the signal is being fed to them by an 1800 dollar pair of Wywires interconnects.   What's the point.  Crazy how well the swans scale with all this in front of them.  It may not make dollar sense/cents, but it makes sense to my ears.   Sufficiently good can be surprisingly limiting!

Nonsense, it may not make fiscal cents, but it makes audio sense!

Happy listening

jgwtriode


----------



## milkdudd

MartinWT said:


> A good IPA to hand is always an excellent enhancement for the music!


Good advice but if you add a couple shots of tequila you'll find it widens and deepens the sound stage. I'm saying this tongue in cheek but I'm not 100% sure it's not true! 🥴


----------



## jgwtriode (Oct 28, 2022)

No doubt!  Make an audiophile version, some gold and silver dust.  They put it in food and supplements and some graphene, they put that in vaccines now.  And that's  got to be better somehow and of course it will cost significantly more!


----------



## Metron

jgwtriode said:


> Yeah sort of makes sense, but you would tend to find scale of economies and scalibility of audio components do not always correlate.
> 
> I run a few crazy things in front of my DAC that are disproportionate to the cost.  I have a JCAT USB XE card with a Wywires Diamond USB Cable. $1700  cable it is much better than their $1000 dollar cable. That goes into my U18.  The I2S cable  is quite good but only $200.00.  And of course the X26 Pro is 1500 with a 500 dollar EVS modification.  I Run $1000 dollar Wywires Platinum power cords into them.  Why?
> 
> ...


It might sound a bit too technical but whatever floats your boat.


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## jgwtriode (Oct 28, 2022)

Hardly, right now far and away the most musically involving system I have heard in quite awhile.  Although my ZMF's will sound much better when my headphone cable has been repaired.  And yet it does all the technicalities extremely well.  And what exactly is the sound of too technical out of curiosity.  At some point in the process you learn that those allocating percentages to spend on things is all very practical but has nothing to do with how things actually work or sound together.  After 50 years of playing with audio I have learned that above all else.  "Use your ears more importantly trust your ears"; spend what you can, but always try to listen to things better than what you can afford!  So you know what the best sounds like and DIY as much as you can!  Look for maximum value like the Gustard stuff, but don't shortchange what you spend just to save a few bucks or even a lot of bucks!  Occasionally indulge beyond what you probably should just to treat your ears and gain some real perspective about why certain things do justify their cost!

Go back to the 80's and read Julian Hirsch,Stereo Review, "Old Tin Ears" himself. He always spent at least a third of the review harping on his measurements and ranting about Hirsch Houk Labratories test equipment.  Famous for always stating it sounded as we expected!  Doubt he could hear a thing or even bothered to listen.  He already knew how it would sound based on the price and the design and his preconceived notions.  Yet he was a quote "Expert"!

There you go sums that whole concept up quite nicely!

High Fidelity was by far the better magazine back in the day.  At least they tried to subjectively review along with the measurements!


Happy listening


----------



## Mr Brett

jgwtriode said:


> ...it may not make fiscal cents, but it makes audio sense!



I think that rings true for quite a lot of what we do in our hobby!


----------



## ProLoL

Highfive99 said:


> ????
> 
> Neither my U16 nor my U18 ever had any pops or clicks in my system.


The U16 is notorious of pops and clicks via I2S, and from early impressions someone wrote that the U18 didn't fix it. I did love my U16 for the sound but the glitches were unbearable.
Can early U16 users confirm that the U18 is fixed in that regard?


----------



## milkdudd

ProLoL said:


> The U16 is notorious of pops and clicks via I2S, and from early impressions someone wrote that the U18 didn't fix it. I did love my U16 for the sound but the glitches were unbearable.
> Can early U16 users confirm that the U18 is fixed in that regard?


I've had my U18 for several months and have not heard a single click or pop


----------



## motberg

ProLoL said:


> The U16 is notorious of pops and clicks via I2S, and from early impressions someone wrote that the U18 didn't fix it. I did love my U16 for the sound but the glitches were unbearable.
> Can early U16 users confirm that the U18 is fixed in that regard?


I had a couple U16's working i2s with various DAC's (Topping, Gustard and Audio-GD) and my solution to avoid unwanted noises was to set the player at a fixed PCM bit depth and sampling rate. Now using a U18 with Pegasus, working PCM is rock-solid with a JPlay dual PC setup (windows 10 and Windows Server 2019, AO). 
I have only tried PCM, and playlists are always the same sample rate. 
U18 here has absolutely no hiss, clicks, skips, delays, etc. and has been the most stable of the 10 or so DDC's I have used in a similar PC USB source configuration.  
I did not compare side by side, but the U18 seems a bit more analytical to me, compared to the U16.
U18 isolation and clocking accuracy seem to be working as advertised. I have a bunch of USB fixers, and none of that stuff is necessary here. Also tried a LHY OCK-1 with a normal cable (not the famed Gustard C2), and thought the U18 internal clock was similar level (I currently am using a tube amp, so maybe some detail retrieval not available).
My next step with be the DI-20 DDC from Audio-GD, I am using a mains regenerator so should not need the HE version ... 
I think I may be able to squeeze out some additional smoothness and depth from the Pegasus, or at least get an optional presentation and then chose the preferred voicing.


----------



## ProLoL

motberg said:


> I had a couple U16's working i2s with various DAC's (Topping, Gustard and Audio-GD) and my solution to avoid unwanted noises was to set the player at a fixed PCM bit depth and sampling rate. Now using a U18 with Pegasus, working PCM is rock-solid with a JPlay dual PC setup (windows 10 and Windows Server 2019, AO).
> I have only tried PCM, and playlists are always the same sample rate.
> U18 here has absolutely no hiss, clicks, skips, delays, etc. and has been the most stable of the 10 or so DDC's I have used in a similar PC USB source configuration.
> I did not compare side by side, but the U18 seems a bit more analytical to me, compared to the U16.
> ...


Thank you, for the DI20, back in the days I was using it, for smoothness and also my favorite firmware was the V3.93beta2. 
I assume if I loved the DI20 as much, I shouldn't go for the U18? if only 1 to choose.


----------



## MartinWT

My U18 has never made any clicks as described.


----------



## T 1000

.


----------



## tedacura1

Never heard any clicks with my U18


----------



## Jake2 (Oct 29, 2022)

I didn't used to have in the month I've had the U18 but have consistently had a few clicks the last few days on first track startup when switching in HQplayer from 384khz PCM to DSD256 upscaling on a new Mac mini M1 (Roon now on the M1 too) via a Zen Stream to R26.

Coincidentally on receipt of the R26 this week I initially got dangerously / deal breakingly loud clicks and white noise for a few seconds on DSD startup on the R26 direct ethernet streaming HQplayer to the R26's internal NAA streamer. Wierdly it has now switched around. None with the R26 direct on DSD, but some, albeit much quieter, and just clicks, via the U18.

There's a few variables I've changed the last few days which may explain it... lots of messing with HQplayer settings, moving Roon to the M1 as well, moving from wired Zen to wireless.

Will keep experimenting and report back if I can isolate the cause of the U18 clicks in my system.


----------



## Metron

ProLoL said:


> The U16 is notorious of pops and clicks via I2S, and from early impressions someone wrote that the U18 didn't fix it. I did love my U16 for the sound but the glitches were unbearable.
> Can early U16 users confirm that the U18 is fixed in that regard?


So, is this an issue that relates exclusively to switching between different sample rates or encoding types? E.g. has anyone using U16 or U18 experienced any issue while playing PCM red book files?


----------



## Getafix

I do have clicks, but rarely and they are non-irritating. Maybe one click once a day.


----------



## Metron

Getafix said:


> I do have clicks, but rarely and they are non-irritating. Maybe one click once a day.


Is it happening at random, in the middle of a track, while changing resolution or file type?


----------



## ProLoL

Metron said:


> So, is this an issue that relates exclusively to switching between different sample rates or encoding types? E.g. has anyone using U16 or U18 experienced any issue while playing PCM red book files?


Middle of the track, I loved the U16 but it was unbreable, atleast 4-5 clicks per song.


----------



## Metron

ProLoL said:


> Middle of the track, I loved the U16 but it was unbreable, atleast 4-5 clicks per song.


Oh, no, that’s not very reassuring. I assume that you excluded other causes?


----------



## Getafix

Metron said:


> Is it happening at random, in the middle of a track, while changing resolution or file type?



Totally random.


----------



## Metron

Getafix said:


> Totally random.


Do you use a U16 or a U18?


----------



## Highfive99

MartinWT said:


> The Coherent modifications to the U18 made a fairly significant improvement to an already good DDC.  I have never heard a DI-20HE in my system so cannot comment, but others put a fully burned-in U18 at a similar level so I would expect the Coherent modified U18 to push it hard.


In discussions with Tony about the upgrade of my U18, me mentioned to me don't bother with the upgrade as Mutec will be announcing a new DDC around Christmas that will be so far above the U18 even with his upgrade. He mentioned that would be a better bang for the buck than the upgraded U18. He couldn't get into any further details because the product is not yet announced but he is working with Mutec on the product. I'll make my decision whether to upgrade my U18 or go with the Mutec after the release of the product and seeeing at what price point it is at. 
One thing I will mention for anyone from the US considering sending their U18 to Coherent, due to the ridiculous cost to ship from the US to the UK, they will arrange to have the U18 picked up by a carrier as their rates are much less than shipping from the US using UPS, FedEx etc.


----------



## kumar402

Highfive99 said:


> In discussions with Tony about the upgrade of my U18, me mentioned to me don't bother with the upgrade as Mutec will be announcing a new DDC around Christmas that will be so far above the U18 even with his upgrade. He mentioned that would be a better bang for the buck than the upgraded U18. He couldn't get into any further details because the product is not yet announced but he is working with Mutec on the product. I'll make my decision whether to upgrade my U18 or go with the Mutec after the release of the product and seeeing at what price point it is at.
> One thing I will mention for anyone from the US considering sending their U18 to Coherent, due to the ridiculous cost to ship from the US to the UK, they will arrange to have the U18 picked up by a carrier as their rates are much less than shipping from the US using UPS, FedEx etc.


A common marketing statement touting new product as latest and greatest.


----------



## Highfive99

kumar402 said:


> A common marketing statement touting new product as latest and greatest.


As technology betters with time, new products are typically better than what is currently available. So what is your point? 
And if you were familiar Tony's design and engineering background he knows from where he speaks. I don't think he would dissuade a customer of taking  advantage of a service he offers and persuading to wait for a new product unless that product is designed to be a better overall performer and value for the money invested.


----------



## MartinWT

Highfive99 said:


> In discussions with Tony about the upgrade of my U18, me mentioned to me don't bother with the upgrade as Mutec will be announcing a new DDC around Christmas that will be so far above the U18 even with his upgrade.



Great.  It had better be a lot better than the current Mutec MC-3+ USB which I used to own, had modded by Coherent but still fell behind a stock U18 as it doesn't support I2S, only AES.  I2S is mandatory for a symbiotic link between DDC and DAC, especially when used with an external clock, and sounds far better.


----------



## milkdudd

Greetings all. Installed the Purple fuse in my U18 yesterday. Also put them in my C18 and A22. I'll wait a little to give my opinions (I know to expect a long burn in process) but so far I'm impressed. When I went to put the fuse in the U18 (or the C18, not 100% positive which one) I noticed the voltage setting was set at 220V. I'm in the USA so obviously we're 110V so I moved the switch to that setting. I realize I should have checked it before I installed it. What seems odd is it worked fine the whole time it was set that way. The switch is recessed pretty deep so I don't think I switched it accidentally while removing it to put the fuse in. Can someone explain to me how it worked fine when it was set wrong? Thinking as I'm talking, maybe plugging into 110V works fine regardless of where the switch is set and the danger would be if you plugged into 220V while it was set for 110V. Am I making any sense? Don't worry about hurting my feelings if I'm not


----------



## MartinWT

Setting it for 220V but running it on 110V would mean much lower unregulated voltage on the power rails reaching the regulators. Could be lower than that required to actually regulate. The chances are that sufficient voltage reached the main circuit to work, but without any headroom for regulation or noise reduction. It would definitely be running suboptimally.

Better than setting it to 110V and running it on 220V, though.


----------



## milkdudd

Thanks martin. I listened last night with the new fuses and the voltage adjusted. Since I made the changes at the same time I can't be sure which and the better effect but I sure enjoyed my listening! The fuses had about 12 hours powered up by the time I shut things down. Tonight will be 24 hours more so I'm anxious to give another listen


----------



## Jake2 (Oct 31, 2022)

I'm in the process of evaluating streaming via HQplayer to my Zen/U18 combo vs direct to my newly arrived Gustard R26's internal NAA. OCK-1 as ext master clock for both. So far it is pretty close, though I slightly favour the R26 NAA direct at the same sample rate, and then the R26 NAA can do twice as high PCM & DSD rates as the Zen.

But others in the R26 thread with different setups have expressed strong views to the contrary. Possible explanation is OCk-1 + C2 cable is optimizing the R26 NAA streaming for me beyond what those others have heard AND I have a few bottlenecks in the Zen/U18 chain which prevents them performing at their best. Only Zen/U18 tweaks so far are a USD100 Aliexpress usb cable and an Ifi Power X for the Zen.

Sounds like a purple fuse would give the U18 a good boost, but then I ought to do the same for the R26.

How about a modestly priced mains cable upgrade for the U18? (again I ought to do same for R26) Any recommendations?


----------



## jgwtriode (Oct 31, 2022)

Well that's awfully decent of them at Coherent. Any idea how much that is to get an overall sense of the cost including shipping both ways?   It's worth condsidering.  Would you say the improvement is on a par with the improvement that the u18 made by itself in the first place or perhaps even a greater difference after the coherent mod.  Any thoughts @MartinWT?  

Thanks,

jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT

jgwtriode said:


> Any thoughts @MartinWT?


Remembering as best I can, the initial addition of a U18 to replace my previous Mutec MC-3+ USB was a small improvement using AES and a mighty improvement using I2S when using an external clock.  The Coherent modded U18 made a step up somewhere in between the two but closer to the improvement made when switching from AES to I2S.

The sum total is an impressive improvement in soundstaging, bass potency and sheer timing.


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 1, 2022)

Currently--Pegasus DAC--HiDiamond  AES/EBU--U18, I got the idea of replacing the DAC, for X26 and switching to I2s
I don't know if my expectations are too high from those changes
And it's back to D/S


----------



## Crypt Keeper

T 1000 said:


> Currently--Pegasus DAC--HiDiamond  AES/EBU--U18, I got the idea of replacing the DAC, for X26 and switching to I2s
> I don't know if my expectations are too high from those changes
> And it's back to D/S


I had U18 ---> the Pagasus via I2S (AV Play I2S) and it was great with  AD Dbl Crown clock. Not  Sure if X26 (without the clock) will be much better than Pegasus...


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 1, 2022)

Crypt Keeper said:


> I had U18 ---> the Pagasus via I2S (AV Play I2S) and it was great with  AD Dbl Crown clock. Not  Sure if X26 (without the clock) will be much better than Pegasus...


I made a mistake with Pegasus by not sending it for I2s repair, and then I bought an "expensive" AES cable and I read all the time about the advantages of I2s.
Lately I've been bombarded with ads about the superiority of the X26
Thanks for the engagement
I will also consider other options that include I2s

BTW-I don't have a clock


----------



## MartinWT

Is anyone here using a Tubulus Argentus I2S cable?


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Nov 1, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> Is anyone here using a Tubulus Argentus I2S cable?


Aye,  Received the cable a few  days ago...  Doing the burn-in ATM...  Pretty sure it  will beat the Audiolund I2S  I've been using   for a while  now...

Edt: Tubulus concentus


----------



## jgwtriode (Nov 2, 2022)

I have my Wywires Platinum headphone cable back now!  With 6 hours of burn in on that cable, it needs 200.  about 70 on my modded X26pro, 40 on my U18, 20 on my SR orange.  Everything else is pretty well burned.  Sound is far and way the best I have ever heard out of my system, but you can still hear it improving ever few hours.  Figure in about 2 weeks it will be there.

And then I will start doing some more tunning mods I have in mind to refine it that last couple of percentage points.  But even at this point it's more fun than ever, just listening and not being to terribly critical of what I am hearing.  Did a few cable tweaks, I like toilet paper rolls cut to drop cables in and move them away from walls floors and each other.

Where I need tensioning to pull them away I uses old covid mask stretch band tied together which helps me position things more appropriately...these are subtle but noticeable diffrences and of course my crazy DIY layered isolation platforms.   I am quite stunned how much the u18 and SR orange bumped the performance up, which I was using my desktop Swans to listen to. 

But now I can listen to my Airmid OTL running National Union 6J5 GTs and Tungsol 5998's.  Here's the kicker.  The amp is dead silent with no music playing and the volume turned up full.   No tube or trannie noise at all.  You can at that point only tell its on by the light of the amber, orange triodes glowing!   Too much fun!

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## jgwtriode

MartinWT said:


> Is anyone here using a Tubulus Argentus I2S cable?


I would be curious to hear what people have compared that with.  I am pretty happy with the After Dark Clay Giseman I2S cable, wish they had a half meter or less however.

jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT

So far, the best I2S cable I've tried is the Blue Jeans FE, but the rest of my system is ready to push the boat out on the best I2S 0.5m cable I can find for reasonable money.


----------



## Miro102

Today arrived this cable for connect X26PRO with U18 by i2S ports, it seem sound very good!!


----------



## MartinWT

I have an AVPlay HD-300 and didn't like it.


----------



## Miro102

For my ears sound good .


----------



## milkdudd

Miro102 said:


> For my ears sound good .


I agree it sounds very good. Until you compare it to the blue jeans cable. AV nicer to look at. Blue jeans nicer to listen to


----------



## jgwtriode

MartinWT said:


> So far, the best I2S cable I've tried is the Blue Jeans FE, but the rest of my system is ready to push the boat out on the best I2S 0.5m cable I can find for reasonable money.


Which cables have you tried if I may ask?  I found that to be surprisingly true with Blue Jeans network cable as well  Run their Cat 5, sounded better than DH labs best and Mad Scientest Network Cable and it was a substantially longer length to boot!

jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT (Nov 2, 2022)

So far, I've tried AVPlay HD-300, Supra HDMI, Clearer Audio Silver-line and the Blue Jeans FE that I use currently.


----------



## Miro102

https://www.ubuy.co.it/en/product/2...ct_page&utm_campaign=country_navigation_popup

Is this  cable that you mean?


----------



## MartinWT

Miro102 said:


> https://www.ubuy.co.it/en/product/2...ct_page&utm_campaign=country_navigation_popup
> 
> Is this  cable that you mean?


Yes, that's it.

Their own page is here:
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/hdmi-cable.htm


----------



## Getafix

Metron said:


> Do you use a U16 or a U18?


U18


----------



## drspeter

Hi. I am currently using x26pro and topping a90d mostly to drive high to mid tier IEMs. I am interested in adding u18 to this chain but wondering if DDC also benefits my use case as well. I assume it could be a good addition for speaker settings but would it be the same for IEMs?


----------



## Getafix

Mutec MC3+ USB is at the moment more than double the price  of U18, so whatever they announce in December will likely be triple.


----------



## jgwtriode

MartinWT said:


> So far, I've tried AVPlay HD-300, Supra HDMI, Clearer Audio Silver-line and the Blue Jeans FE that I use currently.


Well the BJC is so cheap it's worth doing just to see, if it's better oh well a bit of the emperor's new clothes, if not it cost you almost nothing to find out out just how close it gets.   After dark makes quite a fuss on one thread and on their site about how the Giseman MkII I2S is built.  But the proof is in the pudding/listening.

happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## milkdudd

Before I bought the AV cable, Martin told me the Blue Jeans cable I already had was better. I didn't doubt him but for $45 shipped from a fine forum member here I felt I had nothing to lose (except $45) I have gone back and forth two or three times, trying to love the AV cable more. It's such high quality and so pretty. I know the $12.75 blue jeans couldn't possibly sound better. Except it does. Again, not saying the AV sounds bad, just that the blue jeans sounds better


----------



## Highfive99

Getafix said:


> Mutec MC3+ USB is at the moment more than double the price  of U18, so whatever they announce in December will likely be triple.


That's what I'm thinking too. And I'm not fond of the look of the MC3+ and can imagine the new unit will probably look not too dissimilar. Gotta like the looks of the gear you buy, right? At least I do.  I like the looks of U18 so it's most likely going to be sent out for the Coherent treatment. Good thread about them on Martin's theaudiostandard.net forum BTW.


----------



## Highfive99

drspeter said:


> Hi. I am currently using x26pro and topping a90d mostly to drive high to mid tier IEMs. I am interested in adding u18 to this chain but wondering if DDC also benefits my use case as well. I assume it could be a good addition for speaker settings but would it be the same for IEMs?


If you feed the X26P with primarily USB input, then yes, a U18 will make a nice difference. A good fuse such as an SR Purple will even kick it up another notch. Same with the X26P. It responds very well to a Purple fuse.


----------



## jgwtriode (Nov 5, 2022)

FWIW!   I have a 350 dollar Neotech flat cotton insulated OCC Copper Power Chord built buy Zenwave Audio with Neotech OCC copper gold plated Plugs.  It's quite good, but nowhere near the performance of My Wywires Platinum Cords.  I have one digital version which goes to my modded X26pro which has the xfrmers hardwired to the Furtech power inlet and the other end of those xfrmers goes to the ac rectifiers.  Yup 6 or 7 layers of solder points and a fuse removed.  And I was running the Neotech into the U18 with an SR Orange Fuse, which seemed to work very well.  

I have kept thinking that it might make a bigger difference putting the other Wywires Platimun High Current version into it and switching the Zenwave Neotech to the Airmid OTL Headphone Amp.  

In the end the absolute best choice would be to have another Wywires Platinum Digital Power Cord based on what I discovered.  Sure enought the Platinum HC makes a bigger diffrence in terms of the sound then running it into the amplifier in all respects.   So for now will Run the Zenwave into the Amp and around taxtime order another Wywires Platinum Digital Power Cord from Alex.   I'ts a fairly noticeable diffrence almost as much as the SR orange made over the standard fuse.

Happy listening,
jgwtriode


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 5, 2022)

jgwtriode said:


> FWIW!   I have a 350 dollar Neotech flat cotton insulated OCC Copper Power Chord built buy Zenwave Audio with Neotech OCC copper gold plated Plugs.  It's quite good, but nowhere near the performance of My Wywires Platinum Cords.  I have one digital version which goes to my modded X26pro which has the xfrmers hardwired to the Furtech power inlet and the other end of those xfrmers goes to the ac rectifiers.  Yup 6 or 7 layers of solder points and a fuse removed.  And I was running the Neotech into the U18 with an SR Orange Fuse, which seemed to work very well.
> 
> I have kept thinking that it might make a bigger difference putting the other Wywires Platimun High Current version into it and switching the Zenwave Neotech to the Airmid OTL Headphone Amp.
> 
> ...


At that price level I have Ansuz Mainz P and Tellurium Q Black, if I had to give up one it would be a difficult choice.
All the cables do their job, but the sound was most affected by the addition of the power supply - each individually ( in my system ).

How Orange influenced the sound?


----------



## jgwtriode (Nov 5, 2022)

The orange opened it up, more space and more pace, rythem and timing. tonally might of added just a hint or warmth and liquidity to the tonal balance.  Bass had a bit more oomph and texture, highs a bit more relaxed, but also airier and more detailed.  Not as huge as I might of expected but quite noticeable.  Difference in direction of fuse was not immediately obvious.  Main thing was one way was a bit more integrated and slight more intelligibility  with slightly better prat, maybe a hair less staging depth.

The Power cord change made about 80 to 90 percent of a similar difference, with more improvement in focus and layering as well as dropping the noise floor; then the fuse did!   The Wywires is a much better power cord. Uses primarily an air dielectric with some teflon, carbon fiber and graphene shielding.  It should be better it retails at almost 3 X the price and is a far more sophisticated geometry with a lot more shielding. It also uses Furutech Copper Plugs which are also better.  At the sale price its a bit less than twice as much.

Happy listening,

jgwtriode.


----------



## T 1000

Does anyone have experience with this product or another brand?
Nordost QRT Qv2 Line Harmonizer


----------



## Crypt Keeper

T 1000 said:


> Does anyone have experience with this product or another brand?
> Nordost QRT Qv2 Line Harmonizer


I think, iFi AC iPurifier is very similar design, but much cheaper… Speakin’ of power cords , try the Dragon clone from Aliexpress … It’s like 70-80 % of the original 5 K AQ cable …


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 6, 2022)

Crypt Keeper said:


> I think, iFi AC iPurifier is very similar design, but much cheaper… Speakin’ of power cords , try the Dragon clone from Aliexpress … It’s like 70-80 % of the original 5 K AQ cable …


Thank you for sharing this
 I didn't even know Ifi had that device. At that price, it's worth a blind buy.
Power cord - although the forum is full of positive impressions about cables from Aliexpress, and despite the fact that western brands are too expensive, I somehow feel insecure about buying a cable that costs 10 times less, but that cord seems so tempting to me.
I will try to find on the net a comparison with the original - impedance and DC resistance, as well as the quality of the wire - cleanliness and the manufacturing process
AQ makes two versions of that cable -  high current (Variable) for amplifiers and low current (Constant)for DAC..., is there that option on clone?
According to what I read about the original AQ cable, if the clone works even 50%, it is a good purchase

Are there any impressions about that cable on the thread (AliExpress cables)?


----------



## T 1000

I'm giving up on ifi
On- Audio Bacon- an ifi user with the same power rail ( Supra with DC blocker ) reports humming issues


----------



## MartinWT

I didn't like the ifi AC Purifier much and found it adds noise to the line from its active circuit. 

The Kemp SNS is the best one of about 8 I have tried.


----------



## T 1000

MartinWT said:


> I didn't like the ifi AC Purifier much and found it adds noise to the line from its active circuit.
> 
> The Kemp SNS is the best one of about 8 I have tried.


Interesting - I'm waiting for the delivery of Nano Liquid from Kemp.
Do you still use Kemp SNS, if not, why?


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 6, 2022)

Interesting plug
Have you tried their other devices - QA & SR PLUG?


----------



## Crypt Keeper

T 1000 said:


> Thank you for sharing this
> I didn't even know Ifi had that device. At that price, it's worth a blind buy.
> Power cord - although the forum is full of positive impressions about cables from Aliexpress, and despite the fact that western brands are too expensive, I somehow feel insecure about buying a cable that costs 10 times less, but that cord seems so tempting to me.
> I will try to find on the net a comparison with the original - impedance and DC resistance, as well as the quality of the wire - cleanliness and the manufacturing process
> ...


Yes , they have 2 versions on Ali. But the current is cheaper (Could be purchased under $300 for 1.5 M ATM during the 11.11 sale) . Not too many reviews on the thread for this cable , but plenty on Ali. In some cases it bettered the original Hurricane and Firebird …
I’m not using any “Purifiers” in my system. IMHO, heavy grounding box and Isolator will provide much better results… There is also one from Furutech, not as expensive as Nordost, but should be high quality…


----------



## doitttt (Nov 6, 2022)

I use fuse 600 milliamp wire, in is a bit thicker.
gives better sound, than a 500 milliamp fuse.
I use standard fuse.
otherwise, I use supra power box, and supra dcblocker.
gets squares back, when looking at sine curves.
or do I use ,shielded power cables.
if you use, black licorice cables, put ferrite core on.
all of this sounds great
on gustard u18 and cybershaft 10mhz clock.
and for my gustard a22 uses Lindy 2.0 HDR - Cromo Line - High Speed HDMI. 
all wires in hdmi cable. are 24awg.
very thick cable.
very simple setup.
but gives good sound.
from gustard u18 to gustard a22


----------



## MartinWT (Nov 6, 2022)

T 1000 said:


> Interesting plug
> Have you tried their other devices - QA & SR PLUG?


I have tried the following:


Russ Andrews The Silencer+4.9Tacima SC5723+4.3Isotek Isoplug+3.8Isotek Neoplug+3.5ifi AC Purifier+3.2PS Audio Noise Harvester+2.6VertexAQ Jaya+0.9Harmonix Enacom0Isotek Protek0Kemp SNS-2.0Sercal NoNoise SE-2.2

The numbers are noise reduction in dB.  As you can see, the Kemp and Sercal are the only two that reduced noise, the others add noise. Yes, I still use the Kemp and Sercal.

I also use two regenerators which rebuild the power waveform back to a sinewave, a different function from noise filtering.


----------



## doitttt

that of recreating, the waveform back to a sinewave.
can be very difficult.
when thinking ,from power station to one's home, there 20 miles.
waveform becomes, very distorted and noise.
then build up, to pure sinewave.


----------



## MartinWT

doitttt said:


> that of recreating, the waveform back to a sinewave.
> can be very difficult.


The way that PS Audio do it is ingenious.  They use a tracking amplifier that compares the power input with a locked accurate sinewave generator.  The amplifier senses the difference (error) and adds or subtracts to correct the outgoing waveform.  So, rather than inefficiently generate a power waveform from scratch, it 'repairs' it on the fly.  Much more efficient and only little heat output.


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 6, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> I have tried the following:
> 
> 
> Russ Andrews The Silencer+4.9Tacima SC5723+4.3Isotek Isoplug+3.8Isotek Neoplug+3.5ifi AC Purifier+3.2PS Audio Noise Harvester+2.6VertexAQ Jaya+0.9Harmonix Enacom0Isotek Protek0Kemp SNS-2.0Sercal NoNoise SE-2.2
> ...


If noise reduction is their only purpose, then I've lost interest, because there are better devices in that field.
Every power cable I have reduces far more db, and mine power strips with 40 db each.


Crypt Keeper said:


> Yes , they have 2 versions on Ali. But the current is cheaper (Could be purchased under $300 for 1.5 M ATM during the 11.11 sale) . Not too many reviews on the thread for this cable , but plenty on Ali. In some cases it bettered the original Hurricane and Firebird …
> I’m not using any “Purifiers” in my system. IMHO, heavy grounding box and Isolator will provide much better results… There is also one from Furutech, not as expensive as Nordost, but should be high quality…


I find that cable interesting, but grounding is also mandatory.
I often get lost in priorities during the next upgrade.
Replacing some of the main components is not on my radar, while with each upgrade the sound projection is improved in all aspects.
Add-ons that are not in the focus of the  masses of "audiophiles", transform the sound many times over
I am sorry that it is not universally accepted


----------



## MartinWT

T 1000 said:


> If noise reduction is their only purpose, then I've lost interest, because there are better devices in that field.
> Every power cable I have reduces far more db, and mine power strips with 40 db each.



Firstly, these are measured (by me) noise reduction, not manufacturer claims (obviously, since some of them are worse than nothing).
Secondly, they are plug-in filters that are not in the path.  Filtered power strips can have an adverse effect on the dynamics of a system.

What I will say is that the Kemp and Sercal make a very positive audible contribution to sound quality.


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 6, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> Firstly, these are measured (by me) noise reduction, not manufacturer claims (obviously, since some of them are worse than nothing).
> Secondly, they are plug-in filters that are not in the path.  Filtered power strips can have an adverse effect on the dynamics of a system.
> 
> What I will say is that the Kemp and Sercal make a very positive audible contribution to sound quality.


OK, you convinced me in two words
I think I'll go with all three - SNS, QA and SR, that or Nordost's pair QK1 and Qv2
The report for the Supra power strips is that it kills the dynamics, but removes the veil


----------



## doitttt

take a look
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...io-powerplant-12-review-ac-regenerator.31298/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...evo3-aquarius-power-conditioner-review.30223/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-audio-p12-review-part-2-power-testing.31432/


----------



## T 1000

doitttt said:


> take a look
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...io-powerplant-12-review-ac-regenerator.31298/
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...evo3-aquarius-power-conditioner-review.30223/
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-audio-p12-review-part-2-power-testing.31432/


I'm neither a connoisseur of measurements nor respecter of that reviewer (because of his cable measurements and his views that quality cables are a fallacy).
I would like to follow his intrerview with the producer, then the picture would be clearer


----------



## MartinWT

doitttt said:


> take a look


I'd rather stick needles in my eyes than read that pathetic forum.


----------



## doitttt (Nov 7, 2022)

am shocked by the reviws, amir have bad power where he measures.
i.e. you have to have online ups, for pure sinecurves, but it costs a lot 5000 dollars and up


----------



## Crypt Keeper

doitttt said:


> am shocked by the reviws, amir have bad power where he measures.
> i.e. you have to have online ups, for pure sinecurves, but it costs a lot 5000 dollars and up



Tripp Lite 1500VA Smart Online UPS - Around 800 USD


----------



## Jon L

Crypt Keeper said:


> Tripp Lite 1500VA Smart Online UPS - Around 800 USD


Tripp Lite double-conversion units are probably the most reasonably priced ones available.  
Liebert units are pretty sleek but bit more money.  Either way, I would change the stock fan for something quieter.

https://www.amazon.com/Vertiv-Liebe...fos.765d4786-5719-48b9-b588-eab9385652d5&th=1


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Jon L said:


> Tripp Lite double-conversion units are probably the most reasonably priced ones available.
> Liebert units are pretty sleek but bit more money.  Either way, I would change the stock fan for something quieter.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Vertiv-Liebert-1500VA-Conversion-GXT5-1500LVRT2UXL/dp/B07ST7BFFS/ref=sr_1_13?crid=VFEXLFJX28SZ&keywords=liebert+gxt&qid=1667844314&s=pc&sprefix=liebert+gxt,computers,132&sr=1-13&ufe=app_do:amzn1.fos.765d4786-5719-48b9-b588-eab9385652d5&th=1


Would this unit better Tripp Lite IS1800HG Isolation Transformer ?


----------



## doitttt

online double-conversion ups cost 5000dollars and up
*Line-interactive UPS are cheap  from 300 dollars
Double-conversion UPS gives pure sine curve
see diagram*


----------



## Crypt Keeper (Nov 7, 2022)

doitttt said:


> online double-conversion ups cost 5000dollars and up
> *Line-interactive UPS are cheap  from 300 dollars
> Double-conversion UPS gives pure sine curve
> see diagram*


----------



## Jon L

Crypt Keeper said:


> Would this unit better Tripp Lite IS1800HG Isolation Transformer ?


I've tried multiple isolation transformers, including medical grades ones and Balanced isolation transformer based filters.   They have their place, but for my money and degree of sound quality improvement, I would go with double-conversion units, slightly modified with quiet fans and better quality AC outlets.


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Jon L said:


> I've tried multiple isolation transformers, including medical grades ones and Balanced isolation transformer based filters.   They have their place, but for my money and degree of sound quality improvement, I would go with double-conversion units, slightly modified with quiet fans and better quality AC outlets.


Yep, that's what I did with my Isolators - Replaced  cheap outlets +  Internal wiring and PW  cords.  
Thanks !


----------



## cglin222

just some funny thing, I just bought SR purple fuse which were buy 2 get 1 free last month.
Now that aside, when I went and change my u18 fuse, I notice it was installed reversed... so who ever installed in from the factory did it wrong... and now I question myself if I can really hear the difference between right and wrong fuse installations... or even tell the difference between u18 vs no u18 , so sad...  even if I listen to it now, i think it's placebo effect? haha


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 8, 2022)

If I understand correctly, you cannot hear the difference between the fuse that comes with the U18 and the purple one.
Can you specify your system and what you are listening through, headphones or speakers, it is preferable to specify the cables you have in the system.
All of this is desirable in order to get a picture of the situations where purple influences and where it doesn't.
And maybe the problem will be detected


----------



## cglin222

T 1000 said:


> If I understand correctly, you cannot hear the difference between the fuse that comes with the U18 and the purple one.
> Can you specify your system and what you are listening through, headphones or speakers, it is preferable to specify the cables you have in the system.
> All of this is desirable in order to get a picture of the situations where purple influences and where it doesn't.
> And maybe the problem will be discovered


I mean I do hear difference but just thought it might be placebo cause I know I installed sr purple. But compared to when I was listening it when I got it without knowing it was installed reversed at the time I thought it was good but wasn’t that impressed, thought it was my system that didn’t improved much
Just being sarcastic and doubting myself


----------



## T 1000

cglin222 said:


> I mean I do hear difference but just thought it might be placebo cause I know I installed sr purple. But compared to when I was listening it when I got it without knowing it was installed reversed at the time I thought it was good but wasn’t that impressed, thought it was my system that didn’t improved much
> Just being sarcastic and doubting myself


Your doubt is correct direction vs reverse?
Sorry for the misunderstanding, my translator is bad


----------



## cglin222

T 1000 said:


> Your doubt is correct direction vs reverse?
> Sorry for the misunderstanding, my translator is bad


My doubt is that if I can hear correct vs reverse if I didn’t installed the sr. Because I didn’t bother to install the regular fuse back and compare
But over all I do think it sounds much much better now a bit more depth actually


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 8, 2022)

cglin222 said:


> My doubt is that if I can hear correct vs reverse if I didn’t installed the sr. Because I didn’t bother to install the regular fuse back and compare
> But over all I do think it sounds much much better now a bit more depth actually


I think that doubts only make it difficult for you to make a correct assessment.
 Do a comparison test (the fuse is easy to change).
If you just think the sound is better, then it's not working for you.
In my case the impact was amazing


----------



## T 1000

cglin222 said:


> My doubt is that if I can hear correct vs reverse if I didn’t installed the sr. Because I didn’t bother to install the regular fuse back and compare
> But over all I do think it sounds much much better now a bit more depth actually


Let the music carry you, and the investment will be worthwhile


----------



## shogo33

T 1000 said:


> I think that doubts only make it difficult for you to make a correct assessment.
> Do a comparison test (the fuse is easy to change).
> If you just think the sound is better, then it's not working for you.
> In my case the impact was amazing


Yes.  Get a friend to assist, if time permits to do the tests.


----------



## Crypt Keeper

T 1000 said:


> I think that doubts only make it difficult for you to make a correct assessment.
> Do a comparison test (the fuse is easy to change).
> If you just think the sound is better, then it's not working for you.
> In my case the impact was amazing


Confirmed ...  I ended up buying 8 purples...


----------



## cglin222

shogo33 said:


> Yes.  Get a friend to assist, if time permits to do the tests.


No doubts now, I took time to swap the fuse and immediately I noticed the difference as I was listening to sr purple for a while
Wish I had got more when it was buy 2 get 1


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## T 1000 (Nov 8, 2022)

With cables and other equipment, I detect changes by playing well-known music before installation, then I insert a new component and listen to see if there have been any changes.
I have cables that I paid more for than the purple one that had less of an impact.
I was surprised with the introduction of purple, I did not expect such an impact.
It has the same effect as some of the 1K cables, but I would not be able to calculate the setting so that I would decide to place one and not the other, because even the cable with the least influence needs to be where it is.


----------



## Crypt Keeper

T 1000 said:


> With cables and other equipment, I detect changes by playing well-known music before installation, then I insert a new component and listen to see if there have been any changes.
> I have cables that I paid more for than the purple one that had less of an impact.
> I was surprised with the introduction of purple, I did not expect such an impact.
> It has the same effect as some of the 1K cables, but I would not be able to calculate the setting so that I would decide to place one and not the other, because even the cable with the least influence needs to be where it is.


Yep,  some cables are fakes....  but this fuse  is very real, it's not  cheap  @133 USD,  but any gear would benefit  VS factory from it...


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## Crypt Keeper

I shall call it "Cable porn"


----------



## MartinWT

Some Coherent cable porn, LOL.  The U18 still sounds great (to keep it on topic)!


----------



## jgwtriode

Have some new Mad Scientist Audio footers coming tomorrow.  My favourite feet.  Curious to see how they affect the sound of the U18.  Was going to put them under my OTL but I think they will potentially have more impact under the DDC.  The power cord certainly did!

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT

jgwtriode said:


> Have some new Mad Scientist Audio footers coming tomorrow.  My favourite feet.



I've never tried them.  I wonder how they compare with Black Ravioli Big Pads, my favourite feet?


----------



## jgwtriode (Nov 9, 2022)

Got em!  Quick listen on lunch break.  Sure enough improved sound immediately.  I will tinker a bit more with positioning.  Two are Ceramic ball bearings and one is  Tungsten Carbide into a graphene carbon fiber composition base. Will see where the tungsten carbide sounds best.  Thats the tunning aspect. Also got a 2 foot blue jeans HDMi.  The one mentoined by everyone.

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


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## jgwtriode (Nov 9, 2022)

On my break I yanked  the U18 feet so I could more correctly position th Mad Sci Blackpod Nanos.  Bearings down based on the ceramic carbon graphene plae I have sitting on top of the the X26 Pro.  It's a mad sci prototype platform for Roon Intel Nuc's. 

I didn't like it under my DAC.  Just the Blackpod feet and my crazy diy isolation.  But it cuts noise and interference on top of the X26.  It's made of basically the same type of materials as the Blackpod bases and should be harder than the case of
the U18...so the balls go down. 

Sounds best with the Ceramics on the xformer side and the tungsten carbide individualy forming the tripod on the lighter side of the case.  Can definitety hear the improvement in that arrangement.  its quite surprising how they improve muscality,  harmonics and sense of air and bloom.  Dynamics and PRAT also improve!  Bass has more force, impact and coherence; while being more involving the sound is also more relaxing.   No other feet have done for my system what these have. I use them everywhere.  Under my DAC; double set, my computer and the SSD drives in my computer.

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## Getafix

Seems like you bought the last available footers, they aren’t listed on Mad Scientist website anymore.


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## jgwtriode

I will check, pretty sure Bob is still making them.  He may be out of stock.  I will ask him if they are discontinuing.   That would be sad because I probably want to order another set for my amp next month.  Got to space these purcases out.  Sent him an email.  I will let you know.

jgwtriode


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## jgwtriode (Nov 9, 2022)

Okay BJC HDMI vs Afterdark Giseman Mk II IDS.   BJC is extremely even, nothing wrong with it, sound very good surprisingly spacious but not quite as large as the Giseman. It is extremely neutral without really calling attention to the fact that it is neutral.  Very good PRAT, very good detail.dynamics seem very good.  If I had not heard the Giseman I would be just fine with it.   Crazy good for the money. 

The giseman is quieter, more ambient, more illuminated.  A hint more euphonic, with more organic flow, more analog as they say without any loss of detail.  Actually a hint more!  There is more texture, tone and harmonic.  Transients have a bit more speed and you can hear decay of instruments better part of that air and bloom.  Voices are richer, a hint more more warm, buttery and sweet.  Bass has a bit more realistic weight and impact.   Very pleased with this Afterdark cable.  Does a lot of what I love about the Wywires Platinum series.  They don't have an I2S cable.   I

But this stuff is about $ 220 for 1M.  9 bucks for 2 foot BJC on Amazon with free shipping with prime.  Right now it just sounds so good, can't bear to go back to BJC.   That definetly makes it worth spending extra to get those extra things the BJC just doesn't quite do as well. How much difference does burn in make with it?  I love their CAT 5, my favorite network cable.  Talking to their main guy, can't think of his name, he doesn't seen to think burn in makes a big difference.   But if somebody out there has noticed how much burn in it might take for their HDMI, I am happy to do so and then revisit and compare. 

Let me know,

jgwtriode


----------



## jgwtriode

Getafix said:


> Seems like you bought the last available footers, they aren’t listed on Mad Scientist website anymore.


Yeah Bob is discontinuing them.  I think all those graphene ceramic nano items are a bit of headache.  He is going to be focusing on his contact enhancer and Cables.  Has a whole new lineup coming up of improved cables.  He has been getting quite a positive response on his new speaker cables.

So I think once he sells of his tweak items that's it.   Contact Enhancer and Cable


----------



## Mr Brett

kumar402 said:


> A common marketing statement touting new product as latest and greatest.


I'm guessing you haven't experienced any Coherent mods?


----------



## jgwtriode

jgwtriode said:


> Yeah Bob is discontinuing them.  I think all those graphene ceramic nano items are a bit of headache.  He is going to be focusing on his contact enhancer and Cables.  Has a whole new lineup coming up of improved cables.  He has been getting quite a positive response on his new speaker cables.  He will make continue to make his other items on special order


1


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## drspeter

U18 ordered along with blue jeans iis cable. If I prefer more air comes along with treble extebsion, can avplay hd-300 cable be a better option?


----------



## Crypt Keeper

drspeter said:


> U18 ordered along with blue jeans iis cable. If I prefer more air comes along with treble extebsion, can avplay hd-300 cable be a better option?


It's solid  silver so  - yes, I think so...


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## milkdudd (Nov 10, 2022)

drspeter said:


> U18 ordered along with blue jeans iis cable. If I prefer more air comes along with treble extebsion, can avplay hd-300 cable be a better option?


I've gone back and forth a couple of times between these cables and each time prefer the blue jeans. Of course I'm a detail freak. If you're going to move up above the blue jeans I'd consider going farther up the food chain. Try to purchase with a return policy in case you still like the blue jeans better like I did


----------



## drspeter

milkdudd said:


> I've gone back and forth a couple of times between these cables and each time prefer the blue jeans. Of course I'm a detail freak. If you're going to move up above the blue jeans I'd consider going farther up the food chain. Try to purchase with a return policy in case you still like the blue jeans better like I did


I am also crazy for details. So I will stick to Blue Jeans for now. I have many things to be upgraded, including AC cables, fuses for my x26pro dac, u18 and a90d amp as well as usb cable to connect my macbook and u18. I am debating which change would bring the most noticeable improvement over the stock ones. Thanks for your input!


----------



## milkdudd

drspeter said:


> I am also crazy for details. So I will stick to Blue Jeans for now. I have many things to be upgraded, including AC cables, fuses for my x26pro dac, u18 and a90d amp as well as usb cable to connect my macbook and u18. I am debating which change would bring the most noticeable improvement over the stock ones. Thanks for your input!


When I'm not sure which upgrade to make I try to buy something that will stay in my system for a long time. I'd start with a really good USB cable. I have the DH Labs Mirage and I have no desire to replace it. As long as you're MacBook uses a USB connector. Never did figure out all that lightning connector stuff. I think all of the upgrades you mentioned are good ones but I'm not sure about the headphone a90d amp


----------



## milkdudd

Also don't cut corners on your interconnect cables. Within the last two weeks I've upgraded my balanced interconnects and it has completely transformed my listening experience


----------



## MartinWT

The Mad Scientist Black Magic Ultra USB is a really excellent cable, feeding my U18 from the Signature Rendu SE. Highly detailed, dynamic and rich but with no harshness.


----------



## drspeter

Thanks a lot for all your suggestions. 


milkdudd said:


> Also don't cut corners on your interconnect cables. Within the last two weeks I've upgraded my balanced interconnects and it has completely transformed my listening experience


Do you mind sharing which interconnect cables you are using? Mine is just ~30$ generic one from topping so interested in upgrading if it improves the SQ


----------



## milkdudd (Nov 10, 2022)

drspeter said:


> Thanks a lot for all your suggestions.
> 
> Do you mind sharing which interconnect cables you are using? Mine is just ~30$ generic one from topping so interested in upgrading if it improves the SQ


I bought both sets used recently. One is the Revelation XLR and the other is Pro Studio XLR which is bulk cable that they sell but they'll make anything you want. I'm hoping DH Labs will have a Black Friday sale so I'm going to keep an eye out for that


----------



## Mr Brett

T 1000 said:


> Does anyone have experience with this product or another brand?
> Nordost QRT Qv2 Line Harmonizer


Bill Stierhout sold his QRT technology to Nordost in 2008.

 He now sells under the name ADD-Powr.


----------



## T 1000

Mr Brett said:


> Bill Stierhout sold his QRT technology to Nordost in 2008.
> 
> He now sells under the name ADD-Powr.


Reputable name
 thanks for the guidance


----------



## jgwtriode (Nov 11, 2022)

If your doing digital with aWindows computer setup and do the Process Lasso, Fidelizer, Audiophile Optimizer software combo, you have to try Trusted Controller 2 by Hungry Bear and Excercise Stabilizer 32 through 35 along with them.  You can find the thread on JPlay Forum. http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/3063-pink-hq-minorityclean/page-197.

You can also add Majiority Clean and Lemonade in which ever numerical interation you prefer.  Up to 288 and 50 respectively I believe.  You basically play around with utilizing these 3 Memory Jitter reduction programs to tune your sound.  They were designed by a guy named Orya, who also designed Bughead Emperor and another interesting piece of software called Pink HQ.  He is continuously improving the programs, hence the iteration numbers.  You may prefer an earlier version depending on your equipment.  It's actually surprisingly to load and reload different combinations of the 3 programs  with Hungry Bears' Trusted Controller to load and set them up and also otpimize Process Lasso to work with Trusted Controller.   

They are all quite helpful on that thread. 

I think you will like find an improve that is reasonably comparable with a fuse change when you get it right. 

It is primarily used with Jplay but it does the same things with HQ player I would imagine and just running qobuz straight through, which is where I am at right now works quite nicely.   But I will be loading up Jplay Femto tomorrow night.

Happy Listening.

jgwtriode


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## milkdudd

It's come to my attention that Shenzhen Audio is having a15% off sale. Looks like it goes through Saturday. I think it's on everything but it's definitely on Gustard products


----------



## duas2noites

I have a wireworld hdmi cable, could I use it to connect u18 and my dac via i2s? Or I need a special and not a normal hdmi cable to use with this ddc?


----------



## drspeter

duas2noites said:


> I have a wireworld hdmi cable, could I use it to connect u18 and my dac via i2s? Or I need a special and not a normal hdmi cable to use with this ddc?


As far as I understand, it depends on the dac that you're using. If you are connecting u18 to gustard dac, usual HDMI would work but otherwise, you need to use the right one to make sure your specific combination to work.


----------



## drspeter

Appology if this is a bit off the topic question. When you're connecting your macbook as a source to u18 DDC, do you use usb-c type cable or usb-a cable with adaptor? I am pretty surprised that most of high-end audio USB cables are only made with usb-a termination that connects to usb-b in DACs. I am not sure how much SQ degradation would be made by undesired adaptation (as recent macbooks do not have usb-a port), I am in general hesitant to buy those high-end USB cables if it's good SQ would be somehow influenced by the adaptor. Is there any consensus on this?


----------



## Highfive99

milkdudd said:


> It's come to my attention that Shenzhen Audio is having a15% off sale. Looks like it goes through Saturday. I think it's on everything but it's definitely on Gustard products


This sale has been going for about a week now. Other Chinese resellers have the same sale. Even some sellers on ebay have 15% off.  My fingers crossed for a 20% off Black Friday sale for a C18.


----------



## milkdudd

drspeter said:


> Appology if this is a bit off the topic question. When you're connecting your macbook as a source to u18 DDC, do you use usb-c type cable or usb-a cable with adaptor? I am pretty surprised that most of high-end audio USB cables are only made with usb-a termination that connects to usb-b in DACs. I am not sure how much SQ degradation would be made by undesired adaptation (as recent macbooks do not have usb-a port), I am in general hesitant to buy those high-end USB cables if it's good SQ would be somehow influenced by the adaptor. Is there any consensus on this?


I don't know anything about MacBooks but just in general I have found adapters to be a very bad idea. Much better to get the exact cable required


----------



## milkdudd

Highfive99 said:


> This sale has been going for about a week now. Other Chinese resellers have the same sale. Even some sellers on ebay have 15% off.  My fingers crossed for a 20% off Black Friday sale for a C18.


I just saw this from APOS. I'm posting it mainly because it shows when the sale ends:

Sale starts on Nov 11, 2022 at 12am PT and ends on Nov 12, 2022 at 11:59pm PT


----------



## Crypt Keeper

drspeter said:


> Appology if this is a bit off the topic question. When you're connecting your macbook as a source to u18 DDC, do you use usb-c type cable or usb-a cable with adaptor? I am pretty surprised that most of high-end audio USB cables are only made with usb-a termination that connects to usb-b in DACs. I am not sure how much SQ degradation would be made by undesired adaptation (as recent macbooks do not have usb-a port), I am in general hesitant to buy those high-end USB cables if it's good SQ would be somehow influenced by the adaptor. Is there any consensus on this?


Gothic Audio SEMPERFI PURE SILVER USB CABLE would  be really good choice for the price … It’s on par with The wire world Silver Starlight 8… You can get it with B TO C connectors…
Yes, you can use a good  HDMI, but unless it's carzy expensive solid  silver HDMI,  better get a  good  I2S..


----------



## drspeter

Crypt Keeper said:


> Gothic Audio SEMPERFI PURE SILVER USB CABLE would  be really good choice for the price … It’s on par with The wire world Silver Starlight 8… You can get it with B TO C connectors…
> Yes, you can use a good  HDMI, but unless it's carzy expensive solid  silver HDMI,  better get a  good  I2S..


looks like a great product for me. thanks


----------



## Crypt Keeper

drspeter said:


> looks like a great product for me. thanks


I’m using Tubulus Concentus i2s with my U18 ATM and it bettered already really good audiolund solid silver I2S… So yeah, good i2s will make a difference.


----------



## MartinWT

Crypt Keeper said:


> I’m using Tubulus Concentus i2s with my U18 ATM and it bettered already really good audiolund solid silver I2S… So yeah, good i2s will make a difference.


I have a Tubulus Argentus I2S cable on order, should have it soon.


----------



## milkdudd

MartinWT said:


> I have a Tubulus Argentus I2S cable on order, should have it soon.


Looking forward to your opinions of it. And if (and by how much) it outperforms the ridiculous price/performance ratio of the blue jeans


----------



## drspeter

Aucharm fuses for u18 and x26 pro ordered. I know that (according to everyone who tried both) SR purple will be much better, but just want to experience by myself that fuse can change the sound (hearing is believing!). Who knows... Hearing improvements will make me order SR purple


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 13, 2022)

drspeter said:


> Aucharm fuses for u18 and x26 pro ordered. I know that (according to everyone who tried both) SR purple will be much better, but just want to experience by myself that fuse can change the sound (hearing is believing!). Who knows... Hearing improvements will make me order SR purple


believe it or not, fuses affect the sound stage.
In one system they have more influence than in another.
Again, there are those who don't notice any changes at all, even in expensive systems.
It is best to enter the investment without excessive expectations.
I didn't really encourage you, 
but I support you, because for me it is the most influential investment for the invested money


----------



## T 1000

I coated all the contacts in the system, and those on the fuses.
For Contakt enhancer from Furutech, I have only words of praise


----------



## MartinWT

T 1000 said:


> For Contakt enhancer from Furutech, I have only words of praise


It's quite expensive. I wonder if it's better than Mad Scientist Graphene contact enhancer?


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 15, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> It's quite expensive. I wonder if it's better than Mad Scientist Graphene contact enhancer?


Honestly, I think they are all good, and it would be hard to hear the difference.
Nano Liquid is noticeably better than Deoxit Gold, and that's all I can say with certainty
I just wanted to go for a sure win,  without much research


----------



## milkdudd

I'm convinced contact enhancer is a good idea. I don't know if I would ever want to wipe it off and reapply but it's nice to know I could. I'm nervous about it getting in female contacts like XLR, RCA and power cord duplex sockets. In other words anywhere I could never remove it. I'm closing in on what I think will be my end game configuration in my stereo room so God willing I may listen to what I have for decades. Is there anything I should worry about having that enhancer somewhere I can never remove it? Probably like always I'm overthinking it. Thanks in advance


----------



## T 1000

milkdudd said:


> I'm convinced contact enhancer is a good idea. I don't know if I would ever want to wipe it off and reapply but it's nice to know I could. I'm nervous about it getting in female contacts like XLR, RCA and power cord duplex sockets. In other words anywhere I could never remove it. I'm closing in on what I think will be my end game configuration in my stereo room so God willing I may listen to what I have for decades. Is there anything I should worry about having that enhancer somewhere I can never remove it? Probably like always I'm overthinking it. Thanks in advance


I don't see any reason to remove it


----------



## T 1000

The only thing I'm not sure about is whether it should be applied to rhodium, probably not


----------



## Highfive99

MartinWT said:


> It's quite expensive. I wonder if it's better than Mad Scientist Graphene contact enhancer?


Not as pricey as the nano NPS-Q45T enhancer I bought. Probably the same stuff as the Furutech.


----------



## milkdudd

T 1000 said:


> The only thing I'm not sure about is whether it should be applied to rhodium, probably not


Thanks. That's the kind of things I would need to know in advance. As I have a power cord with rhodium plating


----------



## T 1000

So far my Aryas have been neglected, Senn. gave me a far more exciting listen.
Now I am happy because for the first time Arya offer me exciting listening
Senn. and Arya offer different experiences
 This contact enhancer coating was another hit for me


----------



## Crypt Keeper

T 1000 said:


> The only thing I'm not sure about is whether it should be applied to rhodium, probably not


Yes, It  could be applied to rhodium or  any other connector, including USB ...


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 15, 2022)

Crypt Keeper said:


> Yes, It  could be applied to rhodium or  any other connector, including USB ...


Rhodium is not subject to oxidation ( hence my doubt ), and to sound differently than silver and gold.
I coated the USB B-connector, but I didn't cover the A-side because the pins are very close to each other, so I wouldn't make a connection between them with the coating (just my assumption).


----------



## jgwtriode

MartinWT said:


> It's quite expensive. I wonder if it's better than Mad Scientist Graphene contact enhancer?


I have heard a few people suggest that GCE from Mad Sci sounds better.  I don't know, never tried it.  But I prefer Mad Sci to everything else I have tried!
jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT

jgwtriode said:


> I have heard a few people suggest that GCE from Mad Sci sounds better.  I don't know, never tried it.  But I prefer Mad Sci to everything else I have tried!


It certainly sounds good to my ears.  The only connectors I won't use it on are USB and HDMI as I'm afraid of bridging the contacts with graphene.


----------



## Highfive99

MartinWT said:


> It certainly sounds good to my ears.  The only connectors I won't use it on are USB and HDMI as I'm afraid of bridging the contacts with graphene.


The NPS-Q45T I bought came with a pack of extremely fine brushes for tiny contacts. I also pulled the drivers and Xovers from my ADS speakers did up all the connections. Lots of naysayers on forums about this stuff but to my ear the stuff works.  Only drawback I guess is the stuff is pricey(so is a good fuse) but you get enough to last 5 lifetimes!


----------



## Lukas Luis

mantraone said:


> Who is using the Gustard U18 with Rockna Wavelight via I2S connection? sound great but issue to play audio files with Sample rate 96/24 and 192/24 using Gustard I2s Pinout and PsAudio Pinout. same issue.
> 
> Any idea how to fix?


I use Mode 4 for the Wavedream


----------



## Crypt Keeper

T 1000 said:


> Rhodium is not subject to oxidation ( hence my doubt ), and to sound differently than silver and gold.
> I coated the USB B-connector, but I didn't cover the A-side because the pins are very close to each other, so I wouldn't make a connection between them with the coating (just my assumption).


A lot of info on how to apply the nano is on the “Aliexpress Cables” thread… Thanks to @cdacosta…
The nano could be applied even to RJ45 and it will not short …. For some reason…


----------



## Jake2 (Nov 17, 2022)

So good for BNC connectors for clocks too I guess, theoretically cleaner conduction, further mimimised reflections (assuming already matched cable and device impedances), agree?


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Jake2 said:


> So good for BNC connectors for clocks too I guess, theoretically cleaner conduction, further mimimised reflections (assuming already matched cable and device impedances), agree?


Agreed… Like the Oyaide Db-510 75 Ohm … But what’s even more important is a good filter… Almost all “high end ” clock cables, except The Cross Point have them…


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 17, 2022)

Crypt Keeper said:


> A lot of info on how to apply the nano is on the “Aliexpress Cables” thread… Thanks to @cdacosta…
> The nano could be applied even to RJ45 and it will not short …. For some reason…


Could you point me to the post in which @cdacosta gives the instructions, if it doesn't take too much time.
Thanks
The idea of coating RJ45 without problems is attractive to me, in my case it is four connections point
If it is successful on RJ45, then I could freely coat USB A


----------



## Crypt Keeper

T 1000 said:


> Could you point me to the post in which @cdacosta gives the instructions, if it doesn't take too much time.
> Thanks
> The idea of coating RJ45 without problems is attractive to me, in my case it is four connections point
> If it is successful on RJ45, then I could freely coat USB A



Post #1,293
But it's been more ...I can't  find it  at the moment...


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 17, 2022)

Crypt Keeper said:


> Post #1,293
> But it's been more ...I can't  find it  at the moment...


Thanks

Page 87

I will try, and report back


----------



## T 1000

With Nano, questionable connectors can be freely coated in a thin layer.
I can't see any additional positive effects
Those are my first impressions


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 17, 2022)

I listened to some complex sections, after the last coating I have a clearer insight into the happenings of the micro scene.
Maybe I'm just more focused to a certain area
Coating with contact enhancer brings noticeable changes, although it seems expensive, it makes you satisfied with its effect.
It is essential for quality contacts


----------



## Crypt Keeper

T 1000 said:


> With Nano, questionable connectors can be freely coated in a thin layer.
> I can't see any additional positive effects
> Those are my first impressions


It needs at least 100 Hrs , but  I would  say give it  a week ...


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 17, 2022)

Crypt Keeper said:


> It needs at least 100 Hrs , but  I would  say give it  a week ...


No no, it's noticeable right away.
The problem of noticing additional insight after the last coating is due to the new sound after coating all the contacts.
Nano made the tones even clearer, brought new details and high frequencies.
That's no small upgrade


----------



## T 1000

The stage is so transparent and full, with additional insight in depth, as if the lumen of the lighting has been increased on the already good insight.
While I'm writing this, I'm listening to my playlists, USB and RJ45 should definitely be coated


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 17, 2022)

Crypt Keeper​thank you for encouraging me to take the right action


----------



## T 1000

Powerful liquid


----------



## Crypt Keeper

T 1000 said:


> Powerful liquid


I mean The nano needs  the  "Burin-in" as  well ... It  will open even more  after 100 Hrs ...
  Enjoy !


----------



## MartinWT

milkdudd said:


> Looking forward to your opinions of it. And if (and by how much) it outperforms the ridiculous price/performance ratio of the blue jeans


I gave the Tubulus an hour and a half of burn-in: not nearly enough, especially for silver, but I wanted to have an evening's listen.

You know when a cable sounds right from the off, even before it's settled down? This one sounds so right, and it's not even a subtle difference from my previous best I2S cable, the Blue Jeans FE. There is a lift in quality that is significant and I am really surprised to hear such a gap in performance between the 30cm BJ and the 50cm Tubulus. 

What I hear so far: there is an immediate improvement in focus. I hear no tonality difference but the treble is noticeably sweeter, more extended and less grainy. The decay shimmer on cymbals is improved and the distinct sound of high bells emphasises the clarity of my beryllium tweeters. There is overall a little more midrange clarity, some more insight and edge definition to everything. The plosive sounds of voice makes them even more vivid.

The bass is more surprising although it has been noted in several reviews of this cable. Bass is just better defined, tighter and with amazing power. The pluck of bass strings and strike of drum beats have better definition and more impact.

I could go on but I'll stop at this point and keep listening. There's no denying that it's a step up in class from the valiant BJ. This is a silver cable done right and has none of the brightness/harshness of poor silver cables.


----------



## Jake2

MartinWT said:


> I gave the Tubulus an hour and a half of burn-in: not nearly enough, especially for silver, but I wanted to have an evening's listen.
> 
> You know when a cable sounds right from the off, even before it's settled down? This one sounds so right, and it's not even a subtle difference from my previous best I2S cable, the Blue Jeans FE. There is a lift in quality that is significant and I am really surprised to hear such a gap in performance between the 30cm BJ and the 50cm Tubulus.
> 
> ...


Darn. I also have the BJC FE, a U18, a Gustard DAC (R26), and beryllium tweeters. I can feel another upgrade coming on - gee thanks Martin! But seriously, cheers for sharing your observations, those improvements sound pretty substantial and have some commonalities with some clock cable improvements I've recently experienced.


----------



## Getafix

I think there is a separate subform for tweaks.


----------



## milkdudd

I see that particular cable is right in the middle of the three Tubulus i2S cables they sell. Are you convinced that particular one is the best bang for the buck of those three? The other two cables cost approximately 50% more and 50% less than the one you have


----------



## MartinWT

milkdudd said:


> I see that particular cable is right in the middle of the three Tubulus i2S cables they sell. Are you convinced that particular one is the best bang for the buck of those three? The other two cables cost approximately 50% more and 50% less than the one you have


That's why I chose it. It should represent their best technology without being bleeding edge. Frankly, it was what I was prepared to spend. I'm glad I chose it as it sounds wonderful - or rather, the system does with it in place.


----------



## milkdudd (Nov 18, 2022)

I don't think this is too off topic as I would use them with my C18/U18/A22 components, but are you familiar with Tubulus interconnects? They also have three ranges with the top one costing about double what the middle one is. Their description is the same. Only thing I see different is the color, I'm sure there's more to it though. Also I see a lot of WyWires discussed on this forum with positive reviews. They have 40% off everything until the end of the year. A huge motivator for me!

Edit: I may have confused WyWires with Wireworld as far as being commonly mentioned on this forum


----------



## MartinWT

I've never used Tubulus before, the I2S are my first.


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 19, 2022)

It is somewhat clear to me that the enhancer has such an effect, because it increases the conductivity surface and improves it, but it is not clear to me why the coating on RJ 45 and USB had such a dramatic influence


----------



## ChJL

JaMo said:


> Hi,
> No, I can not recommend the U18 over the DI20HE. The Di20HE is a notch better and continues to get better firmwares over time. It also is a very competent re-clocker for SPDIF signals. The regeneration of the power makes it dead silent... So DI20HE plays in another, higher league.
> 
> But I recommend the U18 for what it is "every day of the week". A very good DDC, a bargain for less than USD500
> ...


So if I would add a DDC I would also need/want decent power plus IIS cables, right?
Then the investment for the U18 is quite a over 500.-, the same for Audio GD...
What I would like to know is at what point is the streamers USB out better/good enough so one doesn't need an extra box? At what point is the DAC (it's clock) better/good enough so one doesn't "need" that extra box? DDC or reclocker?
Especially when master clocks come into play I am wondering why not get source gear that makes that multi box approach obsolete?


----------



## ChJL

MartinWT said:


> I just did this yesterday.  As a long time user of a fully modded Mutec MC-3+ USB with 5V supercap power supply, I was curious as to how the U18 would sound.  This is an almost new unit, not yet fully burned in.
> 
> At first, with the U18 receiving USB from my ultraRendu, output to AES, and using its internal clock, it did not match the Mutec.  It sounded a little flat by comparison.  Then I added my AfterDark King external clock (I use an AfterDark Emperor Triple Crown into my X26 Pro).  That really lifted the performance, much to my surprise.  It is the best jump in using an external clock I have yet heard.  In this configuration, it was already matching the Mutec.  An impressive result.
> 
> ...


So you use two different external clocks one for the U18 the other for the DAC? Why not one for both?


----------



## ChJL

MartinWT said:


> I just want to expand on the digital noise issue as it's so important.  My digital chain looks like this:
> 
> TP-Link MR-6400 router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore ultraRendu streamer > Mutec MC-3+ USB reclocker* > Gustard X26 Pro DAC
> 
> ...


Have you ever considered to put an ADOT media converter in between your router and streamer?


----------



## ChJL

kumar402 said:


> Yes, it’s DDC so it will reclock the USB in and send output via SPDIF/I2S. Any kind of USB streamer will benefit from it as not only it removes noise but also reclocks the signal with better clock that it has and in future you can add external clock to it as well if you wish.


So there are no streamers which have better clocks than the U18? I doubt that...


----------



## MartinWT

ChJL said:


> Have you ever considered to put an ADOT media converter in between your router and streamer?


No, because I already had an EtherREGEN with an SFP cage and a Signature Rendu SE also with an optical cage.


----------



## JaMo

ChJL said:


> So if I would add a DDC I would also need/want decent power plus IIS cables, right?
> Then the investment for the U18 is quite a over 500.-, the same for Audio GD...
> What I would like to know is at what point is the streamers USB out better/good enough so one doesn't need an extra box? At what point is the DAC (it's clock) better/good enough so one doesn't "need" that extra box? DDC or reclocker?
> Especially when master clocks come into play I am wondering why not get source gear that makes that multi box approach obsolete?


Hi @ChJL, 
The idea of adding a high performing external master clock to the chain is to get the most out of  the digital parts of it. To use Audio-gd's gear and in this later generation (U18, X26 Pro, R26) You will get a $$$$ result out of $-gears. Very high value/money spent. To aim for the better gears to be able to eliminate these DDC, Ext XO et.c. You will have to pay up many times more, Example the dCS brand where a network bridge is priced about USD5500, a dac USD35500, a combined network bridge and dac USD20500, a transport (CD) for USD27000... and guess what they also offer master clocks for their gears at the prices of USD12000 and one for the double, USD22500.

So there are no shortcuts to miracles. I use piCorePlayers running on Raspeberry Pi's (4b's and 3B+) with good and silent power supplies and decent priced cables. They feed DI20HE, U18, Mutec MC3+USB and a few players also feed the dac's direct (Amanero- and XMOS inputs. This to be able to compare via DDC and direct.

The Gustard R26 has a streamer option inside prepared for Roon and the dac is accepting a good master clock. I dont use Roon myself at the moment but may try it some time. This R26 dac is the nearest answer on Your question to be able to get rid of extra boxes. You end up with a dac and a masterclock.

Regarding good masterclocks I can recommend You to get the LHY Ock-1, I am running it myself for the moment with U18 and R26 and this with an annoyingly good result. The clock is priced USD350-449. On Aliexpress You can get good BNC cables, ex. LMR400

Good luck
/Jan


----------



## jimmychan

Once I had a dCS Network Bridge before I bought the Rpi4 & DI20HE.
I found the DI20HE combo surpass the SQ of dCS NB. Then I sold the dCS NB and just keep the DI20HE combo.


----------



## ChJL

JaMo said:


> Hi @ChJL,
> The idea of adding a high performing external master clock to the chain is to get the most out of  the digital parts of it. To use Audio-gd's gear and in this later generation (U18, X26 Pro, R26) You will get a $$$$ result out of $-gears. Very high value/money spent. To aim for the better gears to be able to eliminate these DDC, Ext XO et.c. You will have to pay up many times more, Example the dCS brand where a network bridge is priced about USD5500, a dac USD35500, a combined network bridge and dac USD20500, a transport (CD) for USD27000... and guess what they also offer master clocks for their gears at the prices of USD12000 and one for the double, USD22500.
> 
> So there are no shortcuts to miracles. I use piCorePlayers running on Raspeberry Pi's (4b's and 3B+) with good and silent power supplies and decent priced cables. They feed DI20HE, U18, Mutec MC3+USB and a few players also feed the dac's direct (Amanero- and XMOS inputs. This to be able to compare via DDC and direct.
> ...


Yeah, dCS no thanks!
But still in case of Gustard why not make something like a R+C+U 26 including all 3 in one? A customer would save on extra power cables, interconnects! One chassis, the best clock of all 3, the best USB card/in out would bring the price down further...


----------



## ChJL

MartinWT said:


> Which is why I said quite carefully "as a separate signal".
> 
> Good as the AES input is on my X26 Pro, it is not nearly as good sounding as I2S.


@MartinWT 
So if considering either U18, Mutec MC3 or DI-20 you would rather not go for the Mutec since it doesn't have the I2S, right?


----------



## JaMo

ChJL said:


> Yeah, dCS no thanks!
> But still in case of Gustard why not make something like a R+C+U 26 including all 3 in one? A customer would save on extra power cables, interconnects! One chassis, the best clock of all 3, the best USB card/in out would bring the price down further...


I can follow Your idea but I don't find it realistic. If You look at the Gustard R26, it is a very well performing device out of the box after a burn in period of minimum 2 weeks. The clock inside it isn't bad at all nor the USB receiver... If You should refine the design with a clock of let say -110 dBc/1Hz and a better USB receiver circuit... We will end up with a much higher price tag. Gustard designs and build gears for the lower-middle price segment and we should all be glad for this. They push other brands/designers to compete in the segment and we the customers can get our hands on competent gears for rather small money. The Gustard K2 clock synthesizer responds very well on high end time pulses and we should be glad also for this. We can add the master clock of our choice or for how much we want or can pay for one. (Good master clocks are usually very pricy, one exeption is the Ock-1). To push the USB interface to a higher perforing level the U18 has galvanic isolation a reclocking process producing a very nice bit stream based on the master clock as well. To keep the option open for connecting a brilliant external master clock makes these gears very attractive in combination.


----------



## ChJL

Roasty said:


> i've had the U18 for several days now, hooked up to a Dave via aes/ebu and damn the U18 is really good.
> bass hits like a mule and really sweet highs and vocals. definitely nicer than direct usb into Dave.
> will use it at work for another week or so before bringing it home to try against the SU-6.


So a DAC like the Dave with it's price tag and what disturbes me even more, from a company which is up there with the "best" when it comes to digital music reproduction profits from a "cheap" DDC? Doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## Highfive99

JaMo said:


> Regarding good masterclocks I can recommend You to get the LHY Ock-1, I am running it myself for the moment with U18 and R26 and this with an annoyingly good result. The clock is priced USD350-449. On Aliexpress You can get good BNC cables, ex. LMR400
> 
> Good luck
> /Jan


Curious how the OCK-1 would compare to the C18?  Pretty much equal in specifications yet the OCK-1 is 1/3 the price. That's a huge difference. The OCK-1 seems like a great deal but almost too good to be true. I see LHY also has the OCK-2 out now that has 6 clock outputs but haven't found the specs for it yet. Product may have just been announced.


----------



## JaMo

Highfive99 said:


> Curious how the OCK-1 would compare to the C18?  Pretty much equal in specifications yet the OCK-1 is 1/3 the price. That's a huge difference. The OCK-1 seems like a great deal but almost too good to be true. I see LHY also has the OCK-2 out now that has 6 clock outputs but haven't found the specs for it yet. Product may have just been announced.


The Lhy Ock-2 is said to hold an OCXO with a phase noise of -115 dBc/1Hz or better for the price of USD749. Half of the price of C18 equal to Ock-1 in spec. The Lhy Ock clocks are no brainers (Value/cost)


----------



## Jake2

JaMo said:


> The Lhy Ock-2 is said to hold an OCXO with a phase noise of -115 dBc/1Hz or better for the price of USD749. Half of the price of C18 equal to Ock-1 in spec. The Lhy Ock clocks are no brainers (Value/cost)


I'd add to this that as <-115dbc/1hz clocks from Cybershaft and Afterdark are > USD2.5K (incl power supplies) so if the OCK-2 specs are accurate, then the OCK-2 should be compared to those clocks, not the C18, making it even better value and LHY quite the market disrupter.


----------



## T 1000

If you had to find a reason (unbiased of course) that justifies the price of Cybershaft and Afterdark over Ock-2, what would it be?


----------



## T 1000

Nothing,-- then Ock-2 is an exceptional value


----------



## jgwtriode

So any objective comparisons of the LHY OCK-2.  If it's as good as the spec suggest that would be pretty darn amazing.  Anyone who has done comparisons with other clocks?

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## Highfive99

jgwtriode said:


> So any objective comparisons of the LHY OCK-2.  If it's as good as the spec suggest that would be pretty darn amazing.  Anyone who has done comparisons with other clocks?
> 
> Happy listening,
> 
> jgwtriode


I believe the OCK-2 is a newly released product that's only been on the market for a couple of weeks.


----------



## Jake2 (Nov 21, 2022)

T 1000 said:


> If you had to find a reason (unbiased of course) that justifies the price of Cybershaft and Afterdark over Ock-2, what would it be?


Long pedigree of AD and CS with making external clocks at various levels, possiby lower phase noise at offset frequencies above 1hz (eg 10hz offset), measurement certificates, use of external power supplies, extensive efforts to dampen vibration in the case of AD which can lose you a lot of the benefit of a low noise oscillator. Question of how LHY measure phase noise. Basically higher confidence that you'll get claimed phase noise performance from AD/CS.

Then again those ~USD2.5k AD/CS models are single output clocks, let alone six switchable impedance, which would make AD/CS more expensive to get more outputs and neither offer 6 IIRC.

So still exceptional value for the LHY but it's unfair to say you get nothing for the extra dosh from AD/CS.

This from a very happy Ock-1 owner.


----------



## milkdudd

Since I received my C18 I've had it connected to my U18 using the sinewave output (with gustard cable). I'm very pleased and all is fine. But in the back of my mind I've wondered what would happen if I connected it using the squarewave output? Would it damage anything or just sound different/worse? I just like tinkering and experimenting, but only if it's safe to do so


----------



## Highfive99

milkdudd said:


> Since I received my C18 I've had it connected to my U18 using the sinewave output (with gustard cable). I'm very pleased and all is fine. But in the back of my mind I've wondered what would happen if I connected it using the squarewave output? Would it damage anything or just sound different/worse? I just like tinkering and experimenting, but only if it's safe to do so


Quite safe to do with the Gustard cable as apparently that cable will work with either 50 or 75 ohms. Square wave is highly dependent on matching impedance of clock, cable and device to be clocked. Sine wave not as dependent. Square wave is said to be technically better than sine but is it a difference that can be heard? I suspect not.


----------



## Highfive99

milkdudd... this link is for you.  
Worth the read.  https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...Swenson_Clock_Considerations.pdf?v=1616799482


----------



## Roasty

ChJL said:


> So a DAC like the Dave with it's price tag and what disturbes me even more, from a company which is up there with the "best" when it comes to digital music reproduction profits from a "cheap" DDC? Doesn't make sense to me.



you must have missed a lot of my other posts and threads. I'm known to exaggerate a lot and think that I can hear differences in all my cables/gear etc. feel free to add me to ignore list. 

out of curiosity, have u tried Dave with a ddc or other connections other than usb in?


----------



## T 1000

Jake2 said:


> Long pedigree of AD and CS with making external clocks at various levels, possiby lower phase noise at offset frequencies above 1hz (eg 10hz offset), measurement certificates, use of external power supplies, extensive efforts to dampen vibration in the case of AD which can lose you a lot of the benefit of a low noise oscillator. Question of how LHY measure phase noise. Basically higher confidence that you'll get claimed phase noise performance from AD/CS.
> 
> Then again those ~USD2.5k AD/CS models are single output clocks, let alone six switchable impedance, which would make AD/CS more expensive to get more outputs and neither offer 6 IIRC.
> 
> ...


In the future, my attention will be directed towards this device.
Thanks


----------



## jgwtriode

Indeed I am hoping for a review from somebody at some point with comparisons to the higher priced spread.

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT

ChJL said:


> @MartinWT
> So if considering either U18, Mutec MC3 or DI-20 you would rather not go for the Mutec since it doesn't have the I2S, right?


I already owned a Mutec MC-3+ USB and sold it for a U18.

The U18 with I2S sounds much better.


----------



## Highfive99

MartinWT said:


> I already owned a Mutec MC-3+ USB and sold it for a U18.
> 
> The U18 with I2S sounds much better.


And I was wondering why you sold the Mutec.


----------



## MartinWT

Highfive99 said:


> And I was wondering why you sold the Mutec.



To clarify, I replaced a Coherent modified MC-3 with a stock U18.  In I2S mode, it beat the MC-3 in AES mode.

Now that my U18 is Coherent modified, it easily outperforms the best sound I had from the modified MC-3.


----------



## Highfive99

MartinWT said:


> To clarify, I replaced a Coherent modified MC-3 with a stock U18.  In I2S mode, it beat the MC-3 in AES mode.
> 
> Now that my U18 is Coherent modified, it easily outperforms the best sound I had from the modified MC-3.


Nice! I ordered a LHY OCK-1 clock yesterday but haven't heard back yet about getting my U18 modded.


----------



## ChJL

MartinWT said:


> I already owned a Mutec MC-3+ USB and sold it for a U18.
> 
> The U18 with I2S sounds much better.


I know and after going through this thread from page 1, the picture of your setup is actually one of the most compelling arguments for the U18.
But your power cable probably great, for sure expensive. Add a grounding box, fed from a PS power regenerator plus the tubulus I2S...
Are we still talking of a 500€ device? How much "better" have you made it?
I'm still debating why not get a streamer and DAC which makes a DDC and primarily a master clock, why stop upgrading with a DDC right?, "unnecessary"...
But reading that @Roasty uses it with a Dave...


----------



## MartinWT

ChJL said:


> Are we still talking of a 500€ device? How much "better" have you made it?



Heh, heh, it's about doing things in stages, too (and having easier upgrade paths).  Each step has improved my system or it doesn't last long.  I have finely honed the digital chain and it's performing very well from Qobuz streaming.

I've heard both the Dave and dCS gear at different times.  Not for me.


----------



## ChJL

Roasty said:


> you must have missed a lot of my other posts and threads. I'm known to exaggerate a lot and think that I can hear differences in all my cables/gear etc. feel free to add me to ignore list.
> 
> out of curiosity, have u tried Dave with a ddc or other connections other than usb in?


Must be the weather near the equator that let's you hear "that stuff".
Well, I typically don't ignore someone who answers when I "talk" to them, maybe at work.

Seriously, right now from a Melco N100 with a decent USB cable to a X26pro. Since many in that thread talk about the U18 I've gone through this thread as well.
Never listened with a Dave but reading that one uses it with a DDC like this triggered my response.
Even that one guy who "works for" T+A for 40 years or so emphasized the importance of adding I2S to the HA 200. Now that info also led me to exploring DDCs. 
So either the one from the same brand for a X26pro seems logical, but DI-20 and the "in the works Mutec" are also tempting...


----------



## Roasty

ChJL said:


> Must be the weather near the equator that let's you hear "that stuff".
> Well, I typically don't ignore someone who answers when I "talk" to them, maybe at work.
> 
> Seriously, right now from a Melco N100 with a decent USB cable to a X26pro. Since many in that thread talk about the U18 I've gone through this thread as well.
> ...



give it a go! the available ddcs in the current market are not too expensive. use any old hdmi cable and/or a plain vanilla aes to begin with. 

for the dacs ive tried, I've almost always preferred aes over i2s (Wavelight, Wavedream). I preferred i2s over aes for the matrix xsabre Pro. the only dacs I liked usb over the other inputs were the Benchmark dac3 and Holo May. 

having said that, honestly, the differences are not massive and I'd safely say one could be completely happy with not experimenting past USB at all.


----------



## jgwtriode

MartinWT said:


> Heh, heh, it's about doing things in stages, too (and having easier upgrade paths).  Each step has improved my system or it doesn't last long.  I have finely honed the digital chain and it's performing very well from Qobuz streaming.
> 
> I've heard both the Dave and dCS gear at different times.  Not for me.


Do you run qobuz with roon and or HQplayer.  Thinking about next year possibly doing Qobuz directly through HQplayer.  Not happy with the way it works with Jplay using BubbleUPN and streaming it through phone app.  For all the fuss they make can't get to sound like Jplay does with stored files.   Running A03, fidelizer, process lasso and Trusted Installer with Majiority Clean 299 and Lemonade Elite 61, may also keep Excercise Stabilizer 37 in the mix of 3 memory jitter reduction software apps running.  Run Jplay Femto with all of that, but also run qobuz directly with all those running.  Sounds much better than streaming it through BubbleUPN over my  OnePlus McClaren.  I also underclock and undervolt my I5 with throttlestop.   Just looking for answers to get more out of qobuz.     

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## Turbo2288 (Nov 23, 2022)

My dac doesn't have I2s input, I am using Coaxial for the time being I have 3 dac in mind: Musician Pegasus DAC, SMSL SU10 (New) and also the Gustard R26 Pro, all have I2s. Of couse the R26 is more expensive.
My question is whether Musician Pegasus DAC goes well with U18 thru I2s ?
Thanks for any input.


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Turbo2288 said:


> My dac doesn't have I2s input, I am using Coaxial for the time being I have 3 dac in mind: Musician Pegasus DAC, SMSL SU10 (New) and also the Gustard R26 Pro, all have I2s. Of couse the R26 is more expensive.
> My question is whether Musician Pegasus DAC goes well with U18 thru I2s ?
> Thanks for any input.


Yes, I had  that  combo  before I upgraded to the Aquarius... Works  very  well with a good I2S  cable.


----------



## MartinWT

jgwtriode said:


> Do you run qobuz with roon and or HQplayer.  Thinking about next year possibly doing Qobuz directly through HQplayer.



No, I use the Signature Rendu SE in DLNA mode, with BubbleUPnP on an Android tablet for control.  The Sonicorbiter software running in the Rendu supports Qobuz directly, and so does BubbleUPnP.  It's a seamless experience and very stable.  The tablet experience is excellent with good search facilities, access to Qobuz playlists, album artwork and useful meta-data about the recording.

I am very happy with the way it works.


----------



## T 1000

jgwtriode said:


> Do you run qobuz with roon and or HQplayer.  Thinking about next year possibly doing Qobuz directly through HQplayer.  Not happy with the way it works with Jplay using BubbleUPN and streaming it through phone app.  For all the fuss they make can't get to sound like Jplay does with stored files.   Running A03, fidelizer, process lasso and Trusted Installer with Majiority Clean 299 and Lemonade Elite 61, may also keep Excercise Stabilizer 37 in the mix of 3 memory jitter reduction software apps running.  Run Jplay Femto with all of that, but also run qobuz directly with all those running.  Sounds much better than streaming it through BubbleUPN over my  OnePlus McClaren.  I also underclock and undervolt my I5 with throttlestop.   Just looking for answers to get more out of qobuz.
> 
> Happy listening,
> 
> jgwtriode


Try it through Audirvana Studio,  have a trial period.
I stream Tidal, and it improves it, I like it more than Roon through SOtM-SMS 200 neo


----------



## T 1000

Turbo2288 said:


> My dac doesn't have I2s input, I am using Coaxial for the time being I have 3 dac in mind: Musician Pegasus DAC, SMSL SU10 (New) and also the Gustard R26 Pro, all have I2s. Of couse the R26 is more expensive.
> My question is whether Musician Pegasus DAC goes well with U18 thru I2s ?
> Thanks for any input.


It's a master, although my Pegasus is from the first series with the I2s problem, I partially alleviated it with an excellent AES cable.
It gets better with every upgrade.
I am very happy with him in the system


----------



## Dandoudou (Nov 24, 2022)

Turbo2288 said:


> My question is whether Musician Pegasus DAC goes well with U18 thru I2s ?


I have Pegasus, and I connect it with I2S to the DI-20HE. I can do the same with my PI2AES.
Pegasus has 8 modes of configurations of pins for I2S, so you can use it with most of the streamers and DDCs.
I believe that one of these modes is compatible with the U18, but try to have a confirmation to be sure.

Pegasus is a good DAC, and I'm  happy with it. But I'm on the point of buying the R26, because I replace all my gear with devices that have a 10 mHz input.


----------



## Turbo2288

T 1000 said:


> It's a master, although my Pegasus is from the first series with the I2s problem, I partially alleviated it with an excellent AES cable.
> It gets better with every upgrade.
> I am very happy with him in the system


What kind of problem with I2s may I ask? There's a Pegasus on the use market I am considering. Thank you.


----------



## mantraone

Dandoudou said:


> I have Pegasus, and I connect it with I2S to the DI-20HE. I can do the same with my PI2AES.
> Pegasus has 8 modes of configurations of pins for I2S, so you can use it with most of the streamers and DDCs.
> I believe that one of these modes is compatible with the U18, but try to have a confirmation to be sure.
> 
> Pegasus is a good DAC, and I'm  happy with it. But I'm on the point of buying the R26, because I replace all my gear with devices that have a 10 mHz input.


And also you can probably sell the DDC DI-20HE, but I'm interested if you test it against the LAN connection that is considered the best interface in terms of SQ for the Gustard R26. The experience of couple of friends with R26 that is better against the Gustard U18 DDC, but your Audio GD digital interface is probably a bit better.


----------



## Dandoudou

mantraone said:


> And also you can probably sell the DDC DI-20HE, but I'm interested if you test it against the LAN connection that is considered the best interface in terms of SQ for the Gustard R26. The experience of couple of friends with R26 that is better against the Gustard U18 DDC, but your Audio GD digital interface is probably a bit better.


I'm curious indeed to see how the R26 will perform with its built-in streamer. I read on the threads that some R26 users get the best sound this way.
I will take the time to test all the options, and I will report about them on the forum.

I bought the R26 this morning.


----------



## T 1000

Turbo2288 said:


> What kind of problem with I2s may I ask? There's a Pegasus on the use market I am considering. Thank you.


From the first series that was put on the market.
That problem was later resolved, and users who had already purchased the device could send Pegasus for repair free of charge.
I don't know how many such devices are in circulation, but you should definitely be careful


----------



## T 1000

Dandoudou said:


> I'm curious indeed to see how the R26 will perform with its built-in streamer. I read on the threads that some R26 users get the best sound this way.
> I will take the time to test all the options, and I will report about them on the forum.
> 
> I bought the R26 this morning.


Share your impressions about the differences between Pegasus and R26


----------



## Dandoudou

T 1000 said:


> Share your impressions about the differences between Pegasus and R26


I will do these A/B tests.
I have a preamp with 2x XLR inputs. I will connect to it the two DACs, and I will stream with Roon the same track to both of them simultaneously.
By switching between them with the output selector of the preamp, I will hear clearly the differences.


----------



## MartinWT

Just to complete my thoughts on the Tubulus Argentus silver I2S cable, I have now put 200 hours of burn-in on my 0.5m link between U18 and X26 Pro and the cable is outstanding.

The cavernous soundstage is larger, deeper and more palpable than I can remember. There is no brightness or glare in the sound, but there is hoardes of natural filigree detail. Bass remains stonking - both deep and tight with tremendous impact.  The overall sound is vivid and exciting, with a fantastic liquid midrange that communicates voice so well.

Sorry to say to those of us who used the Blue Jeans FE to such good effect, this Tubulus is on another plane of performance.  It's worth the cost.


----------



## MartinWT

ChJL said:


> So you use two different external clocks one for the U18 the other for the DAC? Why not one for both?


No, I use one clock (King) with the EtherREGEN and the other (Emperor Triple Crown) with the U18/X26 Pro combo, this feeding the DAC via the I2S connection.


----------



## doitttt

have tried gustard u18 and Mutec MC-3+ USB
thought the Mutec MC-3 sounded better with the right cable
aes/ebu cable mogami 3080, 3 feet, 46pf 1 meter
mogami 3080 in price and performance
beats several thousand dollar cables


----------



## MartinWT

U18 only excels with I2S connection, I wouldn't use it with AES.


----------



## milkdudd

MartinWT said:


> Sorry to say to those of us who used the Blue Jeans FE to such good effect, this Tubulus is on another plane of performance.  It's worth the cost.


Martin, I'm convinced you wake up each day thinking of new ways to send milkdudd to the poor house!


----------



## T 1000

MartinWT said:


> U18 only excels with I2S connection, I wouldn't use it with AES.


Your statements about the I2s connection always make me think about replacing the Pegasus, then I put my reference Senn. on my ears, and I don't think about replacing anymore.


----------



## Highfive99

milkdudd said:


> Martin, I'm convinced you wake up each day thinking of new ways to send milkdudd to the poor house!


Not just milkdudd.....


----------



## jgwtriode

MartinWT said:


> It certainly sounds good to my ears.  The only connectors I won't use it on are USB and HDMI as I'm afraid of bridging the contacts with graphene.


Never had any problem with it on either of those and definetly improves the sound.  Used it on USB first,  when I used to run Mad Scientist Black Magic.  Wywires Platinum and now Diamond smoke it.  But the Black Magic Ultra is supposed to be much better.  Have not tried it, to much money spent on my Diamond.

Happy listening,


----------



## JaMo

Hi all,

I have put a bit of new life into the Master Clock Talk thread. Here is a link to my first post there: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/master-clock-talk.228428/post-17261742

/Jan


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 25, 2022)

jgwtriode said:


> Never had any problem with it on either of those and definetly improves the sound.  Used it on USB first,  when I used to run Mad Scientist Black Magic.  Wywires Platinum and now Diamond smoke it.  But the Black Magic Ultra is supposed to be much better.  Have not tried it, to much money spent on my Diamond.
> 
> Happy listening,


I pulled out the amp.9 from DX 220 and submerged the connectors with Nano, without fear of bridging, and with previous positive experience with RJ45.
Do I have to comment on the significant overall shift?


----------



## jgwtriode

MartinWT said:


> Just to complete my thoughts on the Tubulus Argentus silver I2S cable, I have now put 200 hours of burn-in on my 0.5m link between U18 and X26 Pro and the cable is outstanding.
> 
> The cavernous soundstage is larger, deeper and more palpable than I can remember. There is no brightness or glare in the sound, but there is hoardes of natural filigree detail. Bass remains stonking - both deep and tight with tremendous impact.  The overall sound is vivid and exciting, with a fantastic liquid midrange that communicates voice so well.
> 
> Sorry to say to those of us who used the Blue Jeans FE to such good effect, this Tubulus is on another plane of performance.  It's worth the cost.


I find some of the the same differences in the After Dark Clay Giseman Mk2 I2S vs. BJC HDMI cable, but I don't think it is to as large a degree as what your describing with Argentus, and what of the Concentus at even more?    AD is a bit better in all the respects you describe and beyond that it just sounds more alive and involving.  Better prat yes!  But is a mere $220.00 by comparison to Tubulus at 479 euros I believe.   It may be well worth it.   But not in my budget right now!

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT

jgwtriode said:


> AD is a bit better in all the respects you describe and beyond that it just sounds more alive and involving.  Better prat yes!  But is a mere $220.00 by comparison to Tubulus at 479 euros I believe.   It may be well worth it.   But not in my budget right now!


It's a fair point and I can't guarantee that my findings of the Tubulus beats your findings of the AD!


----------



## MartinWT




----------



## milkdudd

MartinWT said:


> It's a fair point and I can't guarantee that my findings of the Tubulus beats your findings of the AD!


The top of the line Tubulus cable costs far more then yours and I swear the description is exactly word for word. If/when I purchase it will be the same one you have but I can't being curious what the differences are


----------



## MartinWT

I was curious, too, but I often bet that the middle of the range offers the best bang for buck. There may be a small audible advantage to their top of the range model, but I'm betting most of the design effort went into the Argentus, which may be their best selling model. It certainly performs well, with the kind of detail and authority that suggests high end to my ears.


----------



## doitttt

110Ω AES/EBU (XLR) Gotham Audio Cable, GAC-2 Ultra Pro AES, 10666​https://geistnote.com/110-aes-ebu-xlr-gotham-audio-cable-gac-2-ultra-pro-aes-10666/
5x sheilding 
my new cable for mutec MC-3+ Smart Clock USB
and gustard u18
when you only have aes/ebu


----------



## milkdudd

[





MartinWT said:


> I was curious, too, but I often bet that the middle of the range offers the best bang for buck. There may be a small audible advantage to their top of the range model, but I'm betting most of the design effort went into the Argentus, which may be their best selling model. It certainly performs well, with the kind of detail and authority that suggests high end to my ears.


I'm afraid if I ask them what's the difference between the $500 cable and the $900 cable, they will say $400


----------



## jgwtriode

New cheap tweak for anyone wanting to improve their wired streaming.  DX engineering DX iso plus RJ45 filters.  $50 a pair and you need one on either end of your RJ45.  I first saw them mentioned on Steve Hoffmans's Music Forum and then on Audiophile style.  Common mode passive RF filter.  Cheap tweak and it works.  Put a 1 foot BJC belden Cat 5SE on the other side of each filter.  No way I would use the stock half footers that come with them. Lower noise floor, noticeably more transparent. Music has this added resonance and ring that I have not heard before, more lifelike, stage is large and everything is more focused and layered, bass has a bit more sock and texture as well with slightly added weight.  Surprising improvement especially for only $50.00.   Plus 14 for the 2 BJC 1 footers and of course Mad GCEd the connectors.  They are relaxing and getting even a bit better and more musical with a bit of burn in.    Vastly cheaper than the Network Acoustic Muon Filter!

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...thread-for-various-network-cable-experiments/


----------



## MartinWT

jgwtriode said:


> DX engineering DX iso plus RJ45 filters.



I actually have a pair, but took them out when I went with the optical isolation link.

Do you use yours from the router?


----------



## jgwtriode (Nov 29, 2022)

MartinWT said:


> I actually have a pair, but took them out when I went with the optical isolation link.
> 
> Do you use yours from the router?


Yes, makes quite a noticeable difference!  Surprisingly cheap improvement!

jgwtriode


----------



## Turbo2288

T 1000 said:


> Your statements about the I2s connection always make me think about replacing the Pegasus, then I put my reference Senn. on my ears, and I don't think about replacing anymore.


I thought the Pegasus has I2S input? doesn't it works with U18? may be the pins layout won't configure correctly?
Thanks You T1000


----------



## T 1000 (Nov 29, 2022)

Turbo2288 said:


> I thought the Pegasus has I2S input? doesn't it works with U18? may be the pins layout won't configure correctly?
> Thanks You T1000


You did not understand me
Pegasus has an I2s port, but the first ones that were put on the market had problems with the I2s connection(mine is from the first series). That problem was solved very quickly.
I don't know how many of those devices from the first series are currently on sale.
For those Pegasus with correct I2s connection you can contact "Musician" for support and pin configuration for U18


----------



## MartinWT

jgwtriode said:


> Yes, makes quite a noticeable difference!  Surprisingly cheap improvement!



I've put them back in circuit (taking care of their orientation) and will report back.


----------



## jgwtriode

MartinWT said:


> I've put them back in circuit (taking care of their orientation) and will report back.


Very good, will be interesting to see how much difference they make!


jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT

jgwtriode said:


> Very good, will be interesting to see how much difference they make!



The DXE filters make a small but worthwhile improvement to the overall cleaning up of the performance.  I dare say I've reached the limit of effectiveness of improvements via isolation, but they all add up to a very significant contribution to the overall sound:

1. 4G mobile (cellular) data
2. DXE ethernet filters
3. Uptone EtherREGEN with moat
4. Optical link with JD094B-C SFPs and ipolex cable
5. Gustard U18 with moat


----------



## jgwtriode

Very good.  I may explore an Uptone EtherRegen if they ever start building them again. 

jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT

jgwtriode said:


> Very good.  I may explore an Uptone EtherRegen if they ever start building them again.


I believe they're developing the new model.


----------



## T 1000

I use SOtM ISO-CAT6, significant influence on purification. I am planning to buy SOtM ISO-CAT7


----------



## Raduschka

Hi there, 
I could not find any info on this burning issue I have right now with my u18. I bought a new fanless pc and playback crackles and pops as if it were vynil. The pc only has usb3 ports. My old pc plays well over usb2, and all hell breaks loose when I plug the u18 into any of its usb3 ports. Should I get a fanless pc that has at least one usb2 port?? The old pc is a bit noisy, fans and coils etc.  Any experience with usb3 ? Thank you


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Raduschka said:


> Hi there,
> I could not find any info on this burning issue I have right now with my u18. I bought a new fanless pc and playback crackles and pops as if it were vynil. The pc only has usb3 ports. My old pc plays well over usb2, and all hell breaks loose when I plug the u18 into any of its usb3 ports. Should I get a fanless pc that has at least one usb2 port?? The old pc is a bit noisy, fans and coils etc.  Any experience with usb3 ? Thank youI h



Sounds like the “Windows driver” issue…. I had no problem using USB 3 ports on my fanless mini-pc while running Daphile OS (Linux). I wouldn’t even try Windowze …


----------



## Raduschka

Thank you, that's very interesting. I could not get either gustard or shenzhen audio to tell me anything useful. I'm using the gustard usb driver, v 5.0.0, without any success.  Perhaps Icould try jriver on linux. I m new to linux, would that be Ubuntu?


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Raduschka said:


> Thank you, that's very interesting. I could not get either gustard or shenzhen audio to tell me anything useful. I'm using the gustard usb driver, v 5.0.0, without any success.  Perhaps Icould try jriver on linux. I m new to linux, would that be Ubuntu?


I’ve been using https://www.daphile.com/# (Realtime Kernel) with great results .

Daphile is based on the open source Squeezebox Server, Squeezelite and Linux.

Since Daphile is used and configured completely via the web interface the user is not required to have any Linux skills.


----------



## Raduschka

Oh my, that's encouraging news! I'll keep the mini fanless pc a bit longer then and try to install Daphile, hopefully jriver runs on it. Thank you


----------



## Raduschka

I'll start digging deeper in a second, but right now I have a feeling i won't need jriver, daphile seems to be a music player. I suppose it will access my remote library, that's run by jriver.


----------



## jgwtriode

MartinWT said:


> I believe they're developing the new model.


February I believe.  Well my tax return is already burning a hole in my pocket.  So we shall see!

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## Highfive99

jgwtriode said:


> February I believe.  Well my tax return is already burning a hole in my pocket.  So we shall see!
> 
> Happy listening,
> 
> jgwtriode


If you contact Uptone about it they'll add your email address to a list to be notified when it is available. The response I got in Oct was the new version will be better in every  way compared to the original one and at the same price point. That original production version was halted due to chip supply chain issues.


----------



## drspeter

I have recently added U18 to the chain, but I am struggling to understand what is the best setting to make use of its full potential. Currently, I am connecting it to X26 pro through I2S cable. What confuses me is that, does U18 has its own clock that works better than that of X26's? If I switch from "int" to "ext 10 mhz" in the clock setting of X26 pro, I start to hear the music discontinues and starts again every seconds. If I restore the setting back to use X26's internal clock, it works fine. Am I misunderstanding something?


----------



## MartinWT

The U18's clock is marginally better, but the real benefit comes when you use an external clock into the U18, set for Ext. This passes through the I2S to the DAC, giving you double the benefit.


----------



## drspeter

MartinWT said:


> The U18's clock is marginally better, but the real benefit comes when you use an external clock into the U18, set for Ext. This passes through the I2S to the DAC, giving you double the benefit.


thanks Martin. Then there should be no technical issue putting X26's clock setting to 'ext' to utilize U18's internal clock. Should I be worried if setting 'ext' as a clock setting makes the music shuttering badly?


----------



## milkdudd

drspeter said:


> thanks Martin. Then there should be no technical issue putting X26's clock setting to 'ext' to utilize U18's internal clock. Should I be worried if setting 'ext' as a clock setting makes the music shuttering badly?


I'm not the expert here but I'd say the problem is something different, like a bad I2s cable, or a problem with your source


----------



## milkdudd

More I think about it, wouldn't the external clock setting be only if you added something like the C18 or some other 10 MHz Master clock?


----------



## JaMo

drspeter said:


> thanks Martin. Then there should be no technical issue putting X26's clock setting to 'ext' to utilize U18's internal clock. Should I be worried if setting 'ext' as a clock setting makes the music shuttering badly?


Hi @drspeter 
If You don't have a dedicated External Master Clock of 10MHz time pulse You should have Your Gustard's set to "INT". The Internal clocks and the K2 clock synthesizer are doing a terrific job but I advice You to at least get a LHY OCK-1 masterclock. Please read: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/master-clock-talk.228428/page-7#post-17277633

/Jan


----------



## Mihai IOV

drspeter said:


> I have recently added U18 to the chain, but I am struggling to understand what is the best setting to make use of its full potential. Currently, I am connecting it to X26 pro through I2S cable. What confuses me is that, does U18 has its own clock that works better than that of X26's? If I switch from "int" to "ext 10 mhz" in the clock setting of X26 pro, I start to hear the music discontinues and starts again every seconds. If I restore the setting back to use X26's internal clock, it works fine. Am I misunderstanding something?


The "Ext" clock is for a separate external clock on the clock input of the U18. It is normal to experience problems when you set Ext clock and there is none. In your configuration when you have only U18+DAC (and no external clock) the settings should be left on "int".


----------



## MartinWT

drspeter said:


> thanks Martin. Then there should be no technical issue putting X26's clock setting to 'ext' to utilize U18's internal clock. Should I be worried if setting 'ext' as a clock setting makes the music shuttering badly?



No, don't set the X26 Pro's clock to Ext as you're not using an external clock to its 10MHz BNC.  If you try to use Ext clock without a clock connected, you get horrible noise.

Leave it on Int. and it will use the U18's clock when the input is set to I2S.


----------



## doitttt (Dec 5, 2022)

recipe for good sound
first Holo Audio – Titanis in usbport laptop
https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-titanis-active-usb-processor/
thereafter
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dc-p...or-dc-55-21mm-female-power-supply-p-8332.html
as well as ifi xpower 5volt
https://www.av-connection.dk/?PGr=13905
finally puts usb-b-adapter-cable- on usbkabel, to the input gustard u18
it disconnects internal power in usport from laptop
gives much more room in the sound image
as well as 3d
also helps a lot more 10mhz master clock


----------



## jgwtriode (Dec 6, 2022)

Well I am preparing my tax return shopping list.  JCAT network XE card, HQplayer, maybe the LHMY OCK2 and another Cuinas audio Iso Cap Power Supply if I can get John Kinney to build me another.  I prefer it to the uptone LPS 1.2 at half the price. Secret according to John is no regulators on the outputs;  even the best still create switching noise he explained to me and had a white paper on his site about it.

Maybe toss something else in the mix depending on just how much I can safely consider audio disposable.   Oh btw I think I need to add an Ifi power X to the mix for my Tmobile Wireless Modem/Router.  I have to plug it into an outlet box to get it to reach location from the Wall socket.  So I grabbed a 10ft 14 gauge power cord to plug it into the wall and could immediately hear an improvement.  A well spent 15 dollars at Walmart.

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## piguetpolo

Recently got a Gustard U18 and it focuses the sound and improves the clarity nicely especially for the price paid—a great value DDC. When I get some more hours on it, I might explore a good quality master clock.


----------



## Highfive99

piguetpolo said:


> Recently got a Gustard U18 and it focuses the sound and improves the clarity nicely especially for the price paid—a great value DDC. When I get some more hours on it, I might explore a good quality master clock.


Either LHY-OCK-1 or the OCK-2 seem to be the best bang for the buck for clocks. I just received the OCK-1 but waiting for delivery of a BNC cable for it so can't comment on it yet. But from what I've read no one that has either of these has said it wasn't well worth it.


----------



## piguetpolo

Highfive99 said:


> Either LHY-OCK-1 or the OCK-2 seem to be the best bang for the buck for clocks. I just received the OCK-1 but waiting for delivery of a BNC cable for it so can't comment on it yet. But from what I've read no one that has either of these has said it wasn't well worth it.


Thanks for the heads up. Just last night I was reading the Master Clock thread and followed it to the OCK-2.

I was looking at the Mutec Ref10 or Cybershaft level 3K+ level stuff but if the OCK-2 can get it 75% of the way there at under 1K with the LPS integrated, I think the decision becomes quite easy.


----------



## pataburd

Am currently using the ($150) USB Disruptor, ($199) Wyred4Sound Recovery and ($35) Uptone USPCB A-to-B adapter.
Should the MSRP $499 U18 (replacing the MSRP $384 aforementioned products) bring about a significant improvement?


----------



## kumar402

pataburd said:


> Am currently using the ($150) USB Disruptor, ($199) Wyred4Sound Recovery and ($35) Uptone USPCB A-to-B adapter.
> Should the MSRP $499 U18 (replacing the MSRP $384 aforementioned products) bring about a significant improvement?


U18 has no USB out....it is very good source if COAX, I2S is your target input for DAC. It will clean up your USB input so you can replace your chain with it.


----------



## Mr Brett

Have just sent my LHY OCK-1 away for some mods.


----------



## mikeypas

Newbie questions here:

I have the Gustard R26 ordered and awaiting arrival. I was thinking about adding the U18 as well. (i've read that denafrips iris really does help with ares II or pontus II, im wondering if same expectation by adding the U18 to the R26) 

I read that many Gustart R26 users prefer the LAN connection to the USB.

I'm wondering if the U18 + R26 is better or worse than the R26 without U18 but connected via LAN.
I read that Audirvana can connect to the R26 using Upnp (mac)

If indeed the U18 is recommended, since I'm connecting gustard to gustard, which II2S cable could I use?

Thanks all!


----------



## jgwtriode (Jan 1, 2023)

Like all all hobbies, sports and pursuits, you end up hitting plateaus...and you struggle for a while.  If you can't move on you lose interest and shelve it or at least lose interest for a while in frustration.   Last two weeks with work, life choices and the current state of the nation I have been wallowing in that a bit.  Hoping for a better new year.  Even finding my system to just not be quite right, better than ever, but missing musicality and involvement.  Fiddled with filtering options on X26 pro and of course messing with the latest memory jitter reduction software from Orya, Exercise Stabilizer.   Nothing quite doing it.  And then in a moment of New Year's Eve Serendipity!    Go back to basics.
"Rigidity of your isolation structure under your computer."   So after much fiddling settled on my Largest DH cone under my Dual layer DIY air shelf.  Pulled out the third Mapleshad tripoint heavy brass footer.  Shimmed them all with an Aluminum between shelf base and the 3 points.  This has to do with better coupling, impedance matching between materials.  Also placed a quarter above the DH cone, shimming the cone and the small aluminum plate.  Holy smokes!.  Bigger difference than changing stock fuse to
Synergistic orange. I also changed the shims under my DAC's mapleshade block to brass instead of the nickels I was using between it and the brass cones. This slightly improved the tone and harmonics structure; adding a hint more texture to bass and a pleasing sweetness to the upper mids and highs
.
I use two brass and one DH ceramic cone under most all of my multiple shelves, except where I use air bladders!   All have various shimming with either ceramic, brass, aluminum or stainless steel,(single sided razor blades stacked).   I tune with them until it sounds right!)

System came to life,  all the audiophile things got better. But the musicality and involvement took a significant step forward and I realized the problem was proper isolation.  Rant, rave, and scream about new components, cables, and quality of power, but how much attention do you pay to isolation of everything.   I am a maniac about it and have spent years fiddling.   But this last change still amazed me.  Pardon the lighting and work in process state of my setup.  Very DIY!   That last one is my old modded
 Oppo!


Happy listening


----------



## gimmeheadroom

cglin222 said:


> Wonder if ref10 is 6x better than c18



Nothing works that way, does it? The higher you go it's always a small incremental gain.


----------



## piguetpolo

jgwtriode said:


> Like all all hobbies, sports and pursuits, you end up hitting plateaus...and you struggle for a while.  If you can't move on you lose interest and shelve it or at least lose interest for a while in frustration.   Last two weeks with work, life choices and the current state of the nation I have been wallowing in that a bit.  Hoping for a better new year.  Even finding my system to just not be quite right, better than ever, but missing musicality and involvement.  Fiddled with filtering options on X26 pro and of course messing with the latest memory jitter reduction software from Orya, Exercise Stabilizer.   Nothing quite doing it.  And then in a moment of New Year's Eve Serendipity!    Go back to basics.
> "Rigidity of your isolation structure under your computer."   So after much fiddling settled on my Largest DH cone under my Dual layer DIY air shelf.  Pulled out the third Mapleshad tripoint heavy brass footer.  Shimmed them all with an Aluminum between shelf base and the 3 points.  This has to do with better coupling, impedance matching between materials.  Also placed a quarter above the DH cone, shimming the cone and the small aluminum plate.  Holy smokes!.  Bigger difference than changing stock fuse to
> Synergistic orange. I also changed the shims under my DAC's mapleshade block to brass instead of the nickels I was using between it and the brass cones. This slightly improved the tone and harmonics structure; adding a hint more texture to bass and a pleasing sweetness to the upper mids and highs
> .
> ...


I understand isolating turntables from vibrations is essential due the mechanics of the technology… but how does focusing on isolating solid state components circuits helps with sound to the degree you've experienced? It's not an area of improvement that's on my radar.


----------



## MartinWT

My final incremental improvement to the system in 2022 was a result of swapping the Belden 4694R (75 ohm) clock cable out for an LMR-400 (50 ohm) clock cable. The price was peanuts but the sound took a big step up in quality. Very pleasing and cost me next to nothing.


----------



## jgwtriode (Jan 1, 2023)

piguetpolo said:


> I understand isolating turntables from vibrations is essential due the mechanics of the technology… but how does focusing on isolating solid state components circuits helps with sound to the degree you've experienced? It's not an area of improvement that's on my radar.


I didn't used to think so either when I started doing high end audio about 40 years ago.  Started with turntables then speaker stands, preamps and amps.    With digital it became even more noticeable.  Even my solid state drives are isolated from the computer chassis, yes you can hear it.  All I can say is try it!.   I have been doing isolation  very seriously for about 5 years, started taking it seriously about 15 years ago.

Makes a much bigger difference in digital systems.  You also start noticing more of what it does as you fiddle with it.  There are a lot of different things out there.  Some work, some don't, some are absolute hype and some things; like the DH cones and the Mad Scientist Blackpod Nano footers are amazing and relative bargains.  Brass cones are good, but not by themselves.   Sadly DH cones are no longer made and Mad Sci will only be making Blackpods on request.

Air isolation is useful, but not by itself, because it doesn't deal with moving vibration away from the component.  You can build a very effective Air Iso table with Ikea Lack table shelves and wheelbarrow air bladders.  Also strategic  use of weights helps immensely.  I use old project toroids in iron shielding cans.   May not be the best, but I find they work very well.

Some things are remarkable and very expensive. I have played with some of those, and owned a few moderately price ones over the years. The only thing I have left of those is old brass cones, feet, and the Mapleshade Blocks and of course my DH Cones.  Considering all of that I would now simply buy the following.   Mad Scientist Blackpods,  unfinished two inch thick maple blocks and possibly clearance aerospace carbon fiber nomex shelves.  Of course Ikea or mainstay cardboard/laminate composite shelves!   And of course wheelbarrow airbladders.   A mix of those would allow me to build an even better isolation combo than I currently have.  I am trying c to get more Blackpods.  Not easy to get now!   Much of what I am doing now is improvising with what I have!

My current approach clobbers any of the manufactured solutions I played with over the years.  I use layers, and both metal and ceramic shims that I make to tune the cone shelf interface.  I have spent a couple thousand plus  on all the stuff I use, but I have got a lot of mileage out of that by DIYing it!   Also reading everything I can on these forums and talking to designers in the industry.

Been at this for 45 years, since college; on a much more limited budget than I would like to admit.

 I have learned one fundamental truth.  "Everything makes a difference!"   So try everything you can!

Occasionally spend more than you should and do as much yourself as you can.

Listen to the most expensive equipment you can and buy what you can afford.  I had the advantage of working in the industry for about 10 years and met a lot of people and got to try a lot of stuff when I worked for audio stores and a couple of manufacturers.

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## pataburd

In lieu of commercial air bladders (re: Gingko Audio Cloud 9 platforms), I have used racket balls cupped in Vibrapods.  Inexpensive, easy to place and effective.  Wheelbarrow tire innertubes topped with hardwood slabs work well, too.


----------



## ChJL

Highfive99 said:


> In discussions with Tony about the upgrade of my U18, me mentioned to me don't bother with the upgrade as Mutec will be announcing a new DDC around Christmas that will be so far above the U18 even with his upgrade. He mentioned that would be a better bang for the buck than the upgraded U18. He couldn't get into any further details because the product is not yet announced but he is working with Mutec on the product. I'll make my decision whether to upgrade my U18 or go with the Mutec after the release of the product and seeeing at what price point it is at.
> One thing I will mention for anyone from the US considering sending their U18 to Coherent, due to the ridiculous cost to ship from the US to the UK, they will arrange to have the U18 picked up by a carrier as their rates are much less than shipping from the US using UPS, FedEx etc.


Hi @Highfive99, nothing announced yet... Do you actually know if there is something coming up? Does Tony know? Thanks!


----------



## Mr Brett

piguetpolo said:


> I understand isolating turntables from vibrations is essential due the mechanics of the technology… but how does focusing on isolating solid state components circuits helps with sound to the degree you've experienced? It's not an area of improvement that's on my radar.



Many years I bought sorbothane pods, and vibrapods for my equipment. 
Couldn't hear any improvement.

Was sceptical of the effect of placing anything under equipment.

Taking advice, I tried Black Ravioli Pads under my amp and Dac.
What a difference they made; easy to hear the improvement.
Scepticism has disappeared as to their effect and worth.
Have since upgraded to Black Ravioli Big Pads under amp and Dac, with BR Pads under other pieces.

https://www.blackravioli.com/system-ground/pads/


----------



## piguetpolo

@jgwtriode @Mr Brett Thanks for sharing your experience. 

I can't say I'll ever get to exploring isolation... I think I'd need to cross the fuse expanse....And at that point, my audiophilia may have been exhausted/satiated. 

But never say never.


----------



## jgwtriode (Jan 2, 2023)

Mr Brett said:


> Many years I bought sorbothane pods, and vibrapods for my equipment.
> Couldn't hear any improvement.
> 
> Was sceptical of the effect of placing anything under equipment.
> ...


Yeah I never got anything out of sorbo pads or vibrapods.  Isobearings and Navcom pucks worked better for damping and absorption.  Seismic Sinks worked quite nicely but weren't cheap, also played with a few stands.  Best one was a dedicated VPI turntable stand I got for a couple hundred bucks when the store I worked for was clearing inventory.  It was a demo they were getting rid of.  was a 1200 dollar stand with some scratches.  I modified it a bit to hold my pream and amp in the shelf space below the upper level which was designed to seat a lage turntable.

The Sound organization stands were great when I was into Linn and Naim, back in the day!  I replaced most of the standard shelving on the with Aerospace sg grade  fiberglass and aluminun composite shelves I got as scrap from a local manufacturer!  Suprising how wll a simple low mass 4 point square stand can actually work, especially with composite shelves!

DH cones and brass combination worked great for cones, removing vibration from components. 

Then I tried all the Various Mapleshades cones including their biggies and their ambrosia Maple Blocks.  Those worked extremely well!  Better than the Brass, DH cone combo and I went all the way up their 6 lb. small point Brass footers.  Those things are insane you could work out with those instead of those heavy hands things.  Was a bit turned off when I found that their supposedly heavily research and very carefully designed rubber cork feet for under the blocks are 3M air conditioner vibration damper/shims.  And you can buy them in larger sizes and quantity for a lot less, plus the blue foam center version actually works better than the cork ones that Mapleshade rebadges as their own.   In either form they work better than sorbo pador vibrapods! Similar in performance by themselves to Isobearing or Navcom pucks for quite a bit less, especially if you buy them from 3M distributors.  Can even buy them on Amazon!

Speaking of these Herbie's has a few devices of this type that may work reasonably well.    Love their tube dampers.  Use them on my OTL input and output triodes with some mods of my own which look a bit weird.  Stuff to help minimize RF field effects and stray magnetic fields.  Makes them just a bit better.  But it looks very weird!  LOL!

Then the guy who moded my DAC's told me about the Mad Sci Blackpods.   Those have been a revelation.  They work under everything and noticeably better than any Mapleshade combos.  I use them in multiples particularly under My DAC.  I have a carbon fiber nomex shelf in between the bearings facing up and the bearing facing down.  This is a much more effective combo then just one set.  The Idea is the bearing makes contact with the hardest surface.   Two with ceramic ball and one with tungsten carbide is the trio I use.   

Also still found the Mapleshade Blocks quite effective in combination with DIY Air Tables and the Blackpod base, which is carbon fiber ceramic and graphene in some proprietary combination.   That is the best I have tried yet.  Under the DAC there are 11 layers.  Under the Computer 8.  I just added a porcelain kitchen sink splash tile plate to stiffen the base it is shimmed with ceramic squares I made to  couple it at just 4 points.

Been quite an evolution.  Over the last 6 months I discovered shimming wood surfaces with brass, stainless steel or ceramic to further tune the sound.  I would love to try some of these new fangled multi bearing footers, but the prices are nuts!

Happy listening, Happy New Year,

jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT

Black Ravioli works for me - my whole system uses Pads and Big Pads for support and isolation.


----------



## Highfive99

mikeypas said:


> Newbie questions here:
> 
> I have the Gustard R26 ordered and awaiting arrival. I was thinking about adding the U18 as well. (i've read that denafrips iris really does help with ares II or pontus II, im wondering if same expectation by adding the U18 to the R26)
> 
> ...


The U18 is only beneficial if you plan using a USB connection to  your DAC. If you predominately stream then the R26 with the LAN connection is the way to go. This has been covered in depth in the 200+ page R26 thread. If you're mostly playing locally stored music using a USB interface then the U18 with a good fuse makes a nice difference.


----------



## MartinWT

Highfive99 said:


> The U18 is only beneficial if you plan using a USB connection to  your DAC.


I think you mean an I2S connection to the DAC, which makes the DDC / DAC combination perform superbly. 

The U18 then connects to your streamer via USB.


----------



## jgwtriode

MartinWT said:


> Black Ravioli works for me - my whole system uses Pads and Big Pads for support and isolation.


May have to try a set in the near future to compare!

Thanks,

jgwtriode


----------



## Highfive99

MartinWT said:


> I think you mean an I2S connection to the DAC, which makes the DDC / DAC combination perform superbly.
> 
> The U18 then connects to your streamer via USB.


I did mean USB.  For those who plan to or do use a desktop computer or laptop for a music source only have a USB option to connect to a DAC. This is where the U18 comes in. The U18 gives you the ability to use I2S.  All depends on how you read my post above.


----------



## Highfive99

jgwtriode said:


> May have to try a set in the near future to compare!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> jgwtriode


Seems like the smaller Ravioli pads are NLA. I found 12 of them on ebay a couple of months ago but can't seem to find them retailed anywhere. Their site also doesn't show them either. If anyone has a source please LMK.


----------



## MartinWT

Highfive99 said:


> I did mean USB.


Ah, yes I can read it either way. Apologies.

The great thing is that the U18 offers excellent isolation from the noise of a PC, and is further upgradeable with an external clock to benefit both the U18 and DAC at some future point. A good inexpensive investment.


----------



## MartinWT

Highfive99 said:


> Seems like the smaller Ravioli pads are NLA. I found 12 of them on ebay a couple of months ago but can't seem to find them retailed anywhere.



I still buy mine from MCRU here:
https://www.mcru.co.uk/product/black-ravioli-pads-isolation-support-feet/?v=79cba1185463


----------



## jgwtriode

It seems you can also purchase them directly from Black Ravioli on their site.   May grab a few at taxtime when I have some disposable income. Mad Sci footers are now very hard to get.  As in only available on special request.  I have always used combinations of footers. so it may be time to add another type of footer to the mix.   What has been your experience in the difference between the Large Pads and the Regular pads?   The Large are quite a bit more, but they are cheaper than Mad Sci Blackpods....at least the top of line ones, which are the ones I use in my system.

Thanks,

jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT

jgwtriode said:


> What has been your experience in the difference between the Large Pads and the Regular pads?



I use the Big Pads under all the main components: streamer, DAC, power amp, regenerators. They have a bigger weight loading and work best under some compression.

The regular Pads are under everything else: DDC, clocks, EtherREGEN, power supplies, grounding boxes.

To complement them, there is granite and a weight on top of each component. These really help with isolation control.


----------



## Highfive99

MartinWT said:


> I still buy mine from MCRU here:
> https://www.mcru.co.uk/product/black-ravioli-pads-isolation-support-feet/?v=79cba1185463


Cool thanks!  Looks like they changed the design a bit. They don't look like raviolis anymore.


----------



## Highfive99

MartinWT said:


> I still buy mine from MCRU here:
> https://www.mcru.co.uk/product/black-ravioli-pads-isolation-support-feet/?v=79cba1185463


Actually just saw that they don't sell the pads outside of the UK. But wondering if they would ship to the USA?  Also curious as to why BR doesn't show these as available on their site?  Seems they only sell the larger Big pads.


----------



## MartinWT

Highfive99 said:


> Actually just saw that they don't sell the pads outside of the UK. But wondering if they would ship to the USA?



Talk to David Brook, the proprietor.  If he can help, he will.  Tell him I sent you.


----------



## duffer5

Okay, Newbie dumb question.  I, my mistake, pushed the REF button of the U18 while playing music.  I did get an audible pop but nothing severe.  Could I have damaged anything with the R26 or the U18?  All seems to be fine.


----------



## MartinWT

You won't have damaged the U18 or R26. Just make sure your volume is not turned high enough to damage your speakers.


----------



## kumar402

duffer5 said:


> Okay, Newbie dumb question.  I, my mistake, pushed the REF button of the U18 while playing music.  I did get an audible pop but nothing severe.  Could I have damaged anything with the R26 or the U18?  All seems to be fine.


Just check your headphones or speakers


----------



## duffer5

kumar402 said:


> Just check your headphones or speakers


All appears to be good.  Minor pop but it was audible.  Thanks for the reassurance.


----------



## kumar402

duffer5 said:


> All appears to be good.  Minor pop but it was audible.  Thanks for the reassurance.


Ya these pops and all are part of Hifi journey and hence always a good practice to reduce the volume to min before any change


----------



## duffer5 (Jan 4, 2023)

kumar402 said:


> Ya these pops and all are part of Hifi journey and hence always a good practice to reduce the volume to min before any change


Excellent point.  Will do I the future.  On a side note I did hear a decent increase in sound quality running with the U18.  I have the Hifi Rose feeding the u18 via USB and obviously i2s from the U18 to r26.  Audible improvement.


----------



## kumar402

duffer5 said:


> Excellent point.  Will do I the future.  On a side note I see a decent increase in sound quality running with the U18.  I have the Hifi Rose feeding the u18 via USB and obviously i2s from the U18 to r26.  Audible improvement.


Yes, good clocks and noise isolation always help DAC


----------



## duffer5 (Jan 4, 2023)

Happy Wednesday (post your setups) day...

I am offender #1 where I often obsess over the technical details vs listening to the music. Right now I am just going to listen to the music and enjoy. I wish the same for all of you even if it is just for a few moments. (BTW, this is not in response to any individual or any posting) just a reminder to stop and listen to the music when you can.

Cheers!


----------



## Highfive99

duffer5 said:


> Excellent point.  Will do I the future.  On a side note I did hear a decent increase in sound quality running with the U18.  I have the Hifi Rose feeding the u18 via USB and obviously i2s from the U18 to r26.  Audible improvement.


To kick them up another notch, if you haven't already, get SR Purple fuses for the U18 and R26. Not cheap but they make a nice difference. Retailers of them typically will give you 30 days to evaluate them. I didn't need 30 days to decide they're keepers.


----------



## jgwtriode

More fiddling with the Isolation coupling between shelves and footers and directly under my OTL amp.  Had Aluminium Shims in 3 specific spots between shelf and under the amplfier.  Found some more of the brass shims I cut down from a sheet a few months back, had temporarily misplaced them.   Thinner Brass definitely works better.    It is almost immediately obvious when coupling improves.  There is more energy, intelligibility and PRAT. Soundstaging generally gets better as well, but is not always so immediately perceptible.  But those 3 are and you get more fully sucked in to the sound you are hearing.   Always exciting to find an improvement!

Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## ChJL (Jan 5, 2023)

So I'll ask here since the X26pro thread is less attended.
The clock of (a DAC, all?) the X26pro is overridden, slaved by an external one just because one can set the software to external within the menu of the X26pro, right?
Do I have to use I2S or does digital AES work just as good?

Hypothetically speaking, if the clock of a DDC/U18 is better than a masterclock's one, I'll be better off with a DDC, right? (getting an extra benefit of USB isolation f. e. compared to "only" a masterclock upgrade)

Thank you!


----------



## MartinWT

The external clock on the X26 Pro works for all inputs except I2S, by selecting EXT.

With I2S, you connect the clock to the DDC, e.g. the U18, which passes the clock through, by selecting EXT on that.


----------



## Highfive99

MartinWT said:


> With I2S, you connect the clock to the DDC, e.g. the U18, which passes the clock through, by selecting EXT on that.


While this is true and I initially tried this, I have found best SQ was from square wave from clock connected to my X26Pro and sine wave from clock connected to the U18. Shouldn't make a difference but it did my system.


----------



## piguetpolo

Highfive99 said:


> While this is true and I initially tried this, I have found best SQ was from square wave from clock connected to my X26Pro and sine wave from clock connected to the U18. Shouldn't make a difference but it did my system.


My experience was the opposite. When I first installed the OCK-2 clock, the square wave sounded better going into the U18. Sine wave clocking didn't sound as tight and focused.

When the clock and cables are at 1000 hours, I will do another a/b to see if this observation still holds true.


----------



## ChJL

MartinWT said:


> The external clock on the X26 Pro works for all inputs except I2S, by selecting EXT.
> 
> With I2S, you connect the clock to the DDC, e.g. the U18, which passes the clock through, by selecting EXT on that.


Alright I take one question/step at a time... 
1: No masterclock!! 
2: A DDC is connected to the X26pro... does the DDC's clock override the one of the DAC?


----------



## duffer5

Do you all leave your u18 on 24/7 or turn it off at the end of the day. The power switch being on the back of the unit makes it difficult to turn-off easily but I can do without too much of an issue. Thoughts?


----------



## MartinWT

ChJL said:


> 2: A DDC is connected to the X26pro... does the DDC's clock override the one of the DAC?


Yes, via I2S. Not via the other connections.


----------



## MartinWT

duffer5 said:


> Do you all leave your u18 on 24/7 or turn it off at the end of the day.



Yes, anything with a clock should be left on as they take hours or days to settle into their best performance.


----------



## milkdudd (Jan 5, 2023)

duffer5 said:


> the REF button of the U18


For the life of me I can't figure out why this button is called the REF button. Does anybody know? Maybe the full name for a clock is reference clock?


----------



## MartinWT

milkdudd said:


> Maybe the full name for a clock is reference clock?


Yes, it's short for Reference.


----------



## MartinWT

duffer5 said:


> Right now I am just going to listen to the music and enjoy. I wish the same for all of you even if it is just for a few moments.


Absolutely - it's ALL about the music


----------



## duffer5

MartinWT said:


> Absolutely - it's ALL about the music


Wow, great setup.  Can't go wrong there.


----------



## milkdudd

MartinWT said:


> Absolutely - it's ALL about the music


Usher speakers! Once again, proof positive that great minds think alike. Mine are the Dancer Mini-X DMD on beefy sound anchor stands. I've made some relatively easy upgrades to mine, not that they were in desperate need of it. They've gone from great sounding to sublime


----------



## Jake2

MartinWT said:


> Absolutely - it's ALL about the music


Ain't that the truth. Beaut system. Though a glance at it instantly reminds me of how far I could/should work on lifting my power conditioning, grounding and vibration damping game in the new year!


----------



## milkdudd

Martin, that component rack is also very nice. Can you tell me what company makes/sells it?


----------



## MartinWT

milkdudd said:


> Martin, that component rack is also very nice. Can you tell me what company makes/sells it?



Thank you, I've had it for a long time and it has worked very well for me. It's a Solid Tech Radius Duo 3.
https://www.solid-tech.net/radius/


----------



## jgwtriode (Saturday at 1:04 AM)

Okay got to suggest this very strongly.   Dive into this thread...backtrack a bit and check this out.  Software that is FREE! to reduce jitter in computer RAM.   Inceed!  http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/3063-pink-hq-minorityclean/page-210.   Learn, Inhale, Ingest and implement it.  You will not regret it.  This is a Jplay forum and that is how I discovered this.  But you don't need Jplay to implement.  I don't even run Jplay at the moment.  Works with all of your audio software and enhances it.  You must have Process Lasso to properly implement it.  Oh but when you do, you will fall out of your listening chair.  I have been playing with it for months.  But now with Hungry Bears latest trusted Installer to load it and more people discussing it. It is easier than ever to get it running.   I have been running in the loaded default state.  There are 3 specific programs. which you can use seperately or in combination to acheive significant tuning and optimization.  Finally understood how to properly implement CPU priority settings with these programs in Process Lasso and good as it was...and it was.  I fell out of my listening chair when I optimized the CPU priority of each program.   I run all three!  Check it out and I will be happy to share my experience.  But they are very DIY helpful on the site!   Sounds like I upgraded my DAC a few levels and then some.  Somewhere between half to 2/3 level of improvement as throwing the U18 into my system, now that I have it optimized.   And Orya who designed it offers it for free, but he does not support it, so you have to learn and share.

OMG. Gobsmacked!

jgwtriode


----------



## MartinWT

Fascinating, but this is only going to work with PC file-based playback, not streamers like my Signature Rendu SE.


----------



## jgwtriode

That is most likely true.  It does have to be implemented through a PC and windows.   Technically if they use RAM it would probably work but would obviously require completely different software to implement.   I was thinking about going to a seperate streamer.  But it makes more sense at this point to Put a JCAT XE card in to go with JCAT XE USB and then next year do a Farad 450 linear power supply when they come out with it and of course I can afford it.  I think HQ player will significantly improve my results with Qobuz.  


Happy listening,

jgwtriode


----------



## Dandoudou

This solution has
I know Windows geeks


jgwtriode said:


> That is most likely true.  It does have to be implemented through a PC and windows.   Technically if they use RAM it would probably work but would obviously require completely different software to implement.   I was thinking about going to a seperate streamer.  But it makes more sense at this point to Put a JCAT XE card in to go with JCAT XE USB and then next year do a Farad 450 linear power supply when they come out with it and of course I can afford it.  I think HQ player will significantly improve my results with Qobuz.
> 
> 
> Happy listening,
> ...


All these are useful to improve the sound with a Windows PC.
I have friends who are Windows geeks, and they tried everything possible both with JCAT hardware, software tweaks and optimizations to all Windows and Windows Server versions. Something sucks on Windows, and they ended by giving up.

Try booting the same PC on a Linux distribution, in preference an audiophile distribution, and you'll immediately hear the huge improvement of SQ.
It's less time-consuming, and a cheaper solution than what you intend to do.


----------



## MartinWT

Windows is a general purpose Operating System, it was never designed for audio streaming.

Most dedicated streamers have a flavour of Linux as their OS, highly streamlined for a single purpose.
Sonicorbiter in the Sonore Rendu series, for instance, sounds excellent and is very stable.


----------



## Jake2

jgwtriode said:


> Okay got to suggest this very strongly.   Dive into this thread...backtrack a bit and check this out.  Software that is FREE! to reduce jitter in computer RAM.   Inceed!  http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/3063-pink-hq-minorityclean/page-210.   Learn, Inhale, Ingest and implement it.  You will not regret it.  This is a Jplay forum and that is how I discovered this.  But you don't need Jplay to implement.  I don't even run Jplay at the moment.  Works with all of your audio software and enhances it.  You must have Process Lasso to properly implement it.  Oh but when you do, you will fall out of your listening chair.  I have been playing with it for months.  But now with Hungry Bears latest trusted Installer to load it and more people discussing it. It is easier than ever to get it running.   I have been running in the loaded default state.  There are 3 specific programs. which you can use seperately or in combination to acheive significant tuning and optimization.  Finally understood how to properly implement CPU priority settings with these programs in Process Lasso and good as it was...and it was.  I fell out of my listening chair when I optimized the CPU priority of each program.   I run all three!  Check it out and I will be happy to share my experience.  But they are very DIY helpful on the site!   Sounds like I upgraded my DAC a few levels and then some.  Somewhere between half to 2/3 level of improvement as throwing the U18 into my system, now that I have it optimized.   And Orya who designed it offers it for free, but he does not support it, so you have to learn and share.
> 
> OMG. Gobsmacked!
> 
> jgwtriode


This is very interesting thanks.

Do you or anyone else know if there are equivalent programs for Mac OS?


----------



## Dandoudou

Jake2 said:


> This is very interesting thanks.
> 
> Do you or anyone else know if there are equivalent programs for Mac OS?


They do not exist, because they are not necessary for macOS.


----------



## Jake2 (Tuesday at 1:25 PM)

Dandoudou said:


> They do not exist, because they are not necessary for macOS.


I’ll defer to your greater experience here, I’m a Mac newbie, I asked as I’d read a number of comments suggesting that although Macs are better than PCs, they’re still not necessarily as good as optimised higher end music servers. And that there’s some potential improvements like say running Roon on one Mac Mini and HQP on a second Mini (which one poster on another forum swears brought a big improvement - will try to find it FYI) or reducing running services, other apps. Both of which made me wonder if someone had written any audio optimisation software for Mac.

*Edit.* - here’s the guy who did the Mac Mini x 2 experimentation (he has ER + UltraRendu), an interesting read with discussion of switch use too. Conclusion supported by a second poster.


----------



## Dandoudou (Tuesday at 1:37 PM)

Jake2 said:


> I’ll defer to your greater experience here, I’m a Mac newbie, I asked as I’d read a number of comments suggesting that although Macs are better than PCs, they’re still not necessarily as good as optimised higher end music servers. And that there’s some potential improvements like say running Roon on one Mac Mini and HQP on a second Mini (which one poster on another forum swears brought a big improvement - will try to find it FYI) or reducing running services, other apps. Both of which made me wonder if someone had written any audio optimisation software for Mac.


If you look at my signature, you'll see that I'm actually using the Mac as a server on which my players run. It streams to a NUC that is configured as a Host with an audiophile Linux OS. The Host renders the sound, and streams it through the LAN to the streamer with a Japanese protocol named Diretta. There are no renderers on the streamer. The renderers run on the Host.

The sound quality in this configuration is the same as if I was running the players on the Host itself. But I run them on the Mac, because it is a more practical for me this way.
The result is the same, if I stream to the Host from an iOS device or an Android device. There's no drop in sound quality.

However, if I stream to the Host from my Windows PC, with the same version of the players that I use on the Mac (Roon, Audirvana, HQPlayer…), there's automatically a dramatic drop in sound quality. It's due to Windows. Windows geeks could not fix this issue with countless tweaks and optimizations of the OS. They could only improve things.


----------



## Jake2

Dandoudou said:


> If you look at my signature, you'll see that I'm actually using the Mac as a server on which my players run. It streams to a NUC that is configured as a Host with an audiophile Linux OS. The Host renders the sound, and streams it through the LAN to the streamer with a Japanese protocol named Diretta.
> 
> The sound quality in this configuration is the same as if I was running the players on the Host itself. But I run them on the Mac, because it is a more practical for me this way.
> The result is the same, if I stream to the Host from an iOS device or an Android device. There's no drop in sound quality.
> ...


Cheers, yes I’d seen your Diretta & host/renderer refs to which you have referred previously, but had forgotten about. Am not super familiar with Diretta but I think I grasp the basic concepts.

Incidentally I found the post I referred in case it’s of interest… added it to my post but only after you replied:


Jake2 said:


> *Edit.* - here’s the guy who did the Mac Mini x 2 experimentation (he has ER + UltraRendu), an interesting read with discussion of switch use too. Conclusion supported by a second poster.


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## Dandoudou

Jake2 said:


> *Edit.* - here’s the guy who did the Mac Mini x 2 experimentation (he has ER + UltraRendu), an interesting read with discussion of switch use too. Conclusion supported by a second poster.


Sorry, I can not read your link, because I get this message: 

_Oh no ... _
You've reached the limit of pages you can read without becoming a member.

But don't worry, registration is free, easy, and worthwhile!


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## Jake2 (Tuesday at 2:11 PM)

Dandoudou said:


> Sorry, I can not read your link, because I get this message:
> 
> _Oh no ... _
> You've reached the limit of pages you can read without becoming a member.
> ...


Ok, here’s an excerpt from one of the posts from OP Tobes:

_Firstly, let me say that I find it baffling that separating these functions can have an effect. I only do pcm upsampling and it doesn't use that much cpu grunt. _​_An M1 Mini running Roon and HQPlayer with pcm upsampling would typically be using around 5% CPU resources - though a sizeable chunk of memory is in play._​_I'm sure there are plenty of people running Roon+HQP on an M1 who are perfectly happy - I think it sounds fine._​​_That said when comparing Roon+HQP to HQP standalone (with its own minimalist player) some significant differences are apparent. At least to my ears, in my setup._​_HQP without Roon sounds more transparent. The depth and space around sound sources is clearer and there is more focus and texture/timbre to sounds which makes music sound more realistic and present._​_So, IME, HQP sounded better standalone than with Roon - this was true even when I separated HQP onto an M1 Mini and ran Roonserver on the LPS powered i7 Mini (both connected to the Etherregen network switch) and the UltraRendu acting as the endpoint to my usb DAC._​_So it was a surprise to find that Roonserver running on a stock M1 mini with HQP running on a second M1 mini, along with the Roon GUI, didn't show the same deficit. I'm not sure why since resources wasn't an issue with i7 Mini._​​*Edit* - and his conclusion from another post:
​_For perspective, the change from i7 Mini Roonserver to the M1 Mini Roonserver was much bigger and more obvious than the addition of the EtherRegen. But would it have been as obvious if I didn't have the EtherRegen in place first?  Hard to say._​


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## Dandoudou (Tuesday at 2:51 PM)

Jake2 said:


> Ok, here’s an excerpt from one of the posts from OP Tobes:
> 
> _Firstly, let me say that I find it baffling that separating these functions can have an effect. I only do pcm upsampling and it doesn't use that much cpu grunt. _​_An M1 Mini running Roon and HQPlayer with pcm upsampling would typically be using around 5% CPU resources - though a sizeable chunk of memory is in play._​_I'm sure there are plenty of people running Roon+HQP on an M1 who are perfectly happy - I think it sounds fine._​​_That said when comparing Roon+HQP to HQP standalone (with its own minimalist player) some significant differences are apparent. At least to my ears, in my setup._​_HQP without Roon sounds more transparent. The depth and space around sound sources is clearer and there is more focus and texture/timbre to sounds which makes music sound more realistic and present._​_So, IME, HQP sounded better standalone than with Roon - this was true even when I separated HQP onto an M1 Mini and ran Roonserver on the LPS powered i7 Mini (both connected to the Etherregen network switch) and the UltraRendu acting as the endpoint to my usb DAC._​_So it was a surprise to find that Roonserver running on a stock M1 mini with HQP running on a second M1 mini, along with the Roon GUI, didn't show the same deficit. I'm not sure why since resources wasn't an issue with i7 Mini._​​*Edit* - and his conclusion from another post:
> ​_For perspective, the change from i7 Mini Roonserver to the M1 Mini Roonserver was much bigger and more obvious than the addition of the EtherRegen. But would it have been as obvious if I didn't have the EtherRegen in place first?  Hard to say._​


Thank you for posting the excerpts.
The experiment of this guy is interesting, but it relates to a completely different issue.

There's a drop in the sound quality of HQPlayer when you use it in an integrated mode with Roon. (Roon being the library manager for HQPlayer.) The sound is better, if you use HQPlayer alone. I know this problem for a longtime, and it happens both on macOS and Windows. Something in this integrated mode deteriorates the sound.
The same thing happens when Audirvana is used in an integrated mode with Music (iTunes). (Music being the library manager for Audirvana). In this integrated mode too, there's a drop of the SQ when compared to Audirvana playing the files of its own library.

If you post the excerpt that explains how this guy managed to create an integration between Roon and HQPlayer on two different computers, I will try to reproduce it with Roon running on the Mac and HQPlayer running on the NUC (GentooPlayer OS). But the CPU of the NUC is not powerful enough for DSD upsampling by HQPlayer.
I have two M1 Mini, I can also reproduce the experiment with Roon running on one Mini, HQPlayer on another while streaming the sound to the NUC (GentooPlayer).


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## EMINENT

Sorry to interject here but I have noticed no difference in sound quality between Roon or HQP in my setup either when I had U18/R26 or May. I am connected directly to my pc via USB. Of course YMMV and most have different setups going on.


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## Dandoudou

My last A/B comparison is at least one-year-old. 
It's possible that the integrated mode was improved with the release of Roon 2.0. 
I'll do a new A/B comparison to check. 

@Jake2 , 
How old is the experiment of this guy who run Roon and HQP on separate computers? 
What is the date of his post?


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## Jake2

Sep 2022 is the date of his posts.


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## Dandoudou

Jake2 said:


> Sep 2022 is the date of his posts.


Roon 2.0 was released on September 20, 2022. 

I'll make a new A/B comparison.


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## ChJL

MartinWT said:


> Absolutely - it's ALL about the music


That's a P3, right? P10 beneath? 

Let's say you hypothetically would be forced to give up (invest in first, if you had none) either the power plants or your DDC+masterclock "upgrade"... Which would it be? Not considering money, only performance, sound improvement. 

thanks!


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## MartinWT

ChJL said:


> That's a P3, right? P10 beneath?
> 
> Let's say you hypothetically would be forced to give up (invest in first, if you had none) either the power plants or your DDC+masterclock "upgrade"... Which would it be? Not considering money, only performance, sound improvement.



Yes, P3 for the digital electronics, P10 for the power amp.

The hypothesis is a bit flawed as I built up the power side while I designed the digital side since clean power is a part of getting the digital playback chain as noise-free as possible. I wouldn't be without either as I have the system performing really well.

If forced, and I could keep the power cables (which cost as much as the regenerators), I would lose the regenerators and leave the digital chain as-is.


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## Dandoudou

Dandoudou said:


> Roon 2.0 was released on September 20, 2022.
> 
> I'll make a new A/B comparison.


I made an A/B comparison between HQPlayer playing a few files of its library, and playing the same files in integrated mode with Roon. 
I did not hear a drop in sound quality. 

This long-dated issue that existed in earlier versions of Roon was apparently fixed with Roon 2.0.


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## mikeypas

Ordered a U18 to connect with R26. I was told a standard HDMI cable could be used for I2S connection, since both units are Gustard.
I purchased a Audioquest Forest 48 HDMI cable, but I noticed it says its single direction.  
Would that still work  going from U18 -> R26 ?
I'm on iMac , and my understanding is that the computer / software (audirvana) would still recognize the R26 and its capabilities.
Would the single direction affect that, if its going from U18 to R26 ?


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## Dandoudou (Wednesday at 3:48 PM)

mikeypas said:


> Ordered a U18 to connect with R26. I was told a standard HDMI cable could be used for I2S connection, since both units are Gustard.
> I purchased a Audioquest Forest 48 HDMI cable, but I noticed it says its single direction.
> Would that still work  going from U18 -> R26 ?
> I'm on iMac , and my understanding is that the computer / software (audirvana) would still recognize the R26 and its capabilities.
> Would the single direction affect that, if its going from U18 to R26 ?


In this context, Audirvana sees only the specs of the DDC to which the Mac is connected by a USB cable, and not those of the DAC.
And it should be like that, because in this context only the specs of DDC matter, since the sound must pass through the DDC in order to reach the DAC.

EDIT
I said that Audirvana sees the specs of the DDC, but actually it's macOS that sees them, and Audirvana gets this information from macOS.


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## mikeypas

Dandoudou said:


> In this context, Audirvana sees only the specs of the DDC to which the Mac is connected by a USB cable, and not those of the DAC.
> And it should be like that, because in this context only the specs of DDC matter, since the sound must pass through the DDC in order to reach the DAC.
> 
> EDIT
> I said that Audirvana sees the specs of the DDC, but actually it's macOS that sees them, and Audirvana gets this information from macOS.


OK, that makes sense. Therefore in Audirvana, I would input the specifications of the R26 (just like as if it was connected by LAN) - because they won't be detected automatically?
When I select which device to play in Audirvana, would it then say U18 USB or something similar? I'm guessing it wouldn't say R26 USB because macos can't detect the dac


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## Dandoudou (Wednesday at 4:15 PM)

mikeypas said:


> OK, that makes sense. Therefore in Audirvana, I would input the specifications of the R26 (just like as if it was connected by LAN) - because they won't be detected automatically?
> When I select which device to play in Audirvana, would it then say U18 USB or something similar? I'm guessing it wouldn't say R26 USB because macos can't detect the dac


No… You did not understand.
macOS will detect automatically the specs of the DDC. The specs of the DAC are completely irrelevant in this case.

Take this example.
Imagine that the specs of the DAC are 32-768, and those of the DDC are 24-192.
For the Mac, only the specs of the DDC matter, because the streaming path is : Mac > DDC > DAC.
The specs of the DAC are irrelevant, since the DDC does not support 32-768, and the specs of the DDC are the bottleneck. 
Audirvana, and all the other players on the Mac will be automatically limited to an output of 24-192.


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## mikeypas

Dandoudou said:


> No… You did not understand.
> macOS will detect automatically the specs of the DDC. The specs of the DAC are completely irrelevant in this case.
> 
> Take this example.
> ...


Thanks for that, I got it now  Appreciate your responses!


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## jgwtriode

MartinWT said:


> Yes, P3 for the digital electronics, P10 for the power amp.
> 
> The hypothesis is a bit flawed as I built up the power side while I designed the digital side since clean power is a part of getting the digital playback chain as noise-free as possible. I wouldn't be without either as I have the system performing really well.
> 
> If forced, and I could keep the power cables (which cost as much as the regenerators), I would lose the regenerators and leave the digital chain as-is.


I have been amazed what power cords can do.  Stunning that Wywires Platinum Digital Power Cord made almost as much or more diffrence than switching from Platinum to Diamond USB on my older Oppo DAC from my reasonably good to Zenwave Audio  Neotech  Copper.  I switched my other Wywires Power Cord from my Amp to my U18 DDC from the stock cord.  Comparable difference to changing stock fuse to Synegistic Orange.    Power Cords can make surprisingly big differences.

jgwtriode


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## duffer5 (Yesterday at 7:10 PM)

I am sure this has been addressed before but I continue to be a bit confused.  My U18 will display 88.2 and the R26 will display 44.1 MQA / OFS.  In this example the two numbers don't align.  But there are times when they do align for example 96 sample rate for MQA / OFS or non MQA / OFS sample rate of 44.1 or 48.  What causes this?  Is this due to the unfolding of the MQA signal?  What is the correct sample rate, I assume what I hear is what the DAC is processing?  Regardless it sounds great, just curious. BTW the signal from the U18 is being fed into the R26 via i2s if that info helps for an explanation.  Thank you in advance.


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