# Best RCA cables for the money



## Nigel79

I was wondering peoples opinion for the best quality RCA cables for hooking up my Audio-Gd DAC 19Mk3 to my Audio-Gd-C2C amp for the money?


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## Scott_Tarlow

Don't know about RCA cables, but Rick at Fidelity Audio makes a mighty nice Mini to Mini. I assume that his RCA's would be the same, as he uses the same cable in all his cables, depending on which series you get.


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## Mehve

Blue Jeans Cable

 Very solid work, very open and upfront about their product, and no international concerns for you.


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## Uncle Erik

Either Blue Jeans or the less expensive Vampire cables.


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## MatsudaMan

Kimber Kables Timbre or PBJ.....maybe Tonik. As you can see I love Kimber. Timbre.


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## LingLing1337

Blue Jeans is usually recommended for having really nice cables at a sensible price.


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## iriverdude

Do you mean reasonbly priced but decent quality, or decent quality with stupidly high price tag?


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## nick_charles

Having tested cables ranging from 77c to $139 for noise and FR I suggest either Monoprice or Tartan cables, the Tartan are a bit pricier $5 vs $2.39 but they are a bit easier to work with (less stiff), functionally and audibly they are indistinguishable. None of the more expensive cables I tested were notably different on noise or FR apart from some silver cables which had a small noise spike at 8k.

 If you really have to spend more money the Blue jeans cables tested equivalently to the Tartan and Monoprice.

 If you would like to hear the (non) differences between the cables I tested I have posted some samples on the "my Cable test enterprise" thread. 

 To date nobody has been able to reliably identify the differences between the cables used. 

 Remember, the laws of physics are indifferent to how much money you spend and how much you like the physical appearance of cables.


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## deltaspirit

I would recommend cables from a member here skyline889, they're fairly cheap use quality parts and look amazing.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean reasonbly priced but decent quality, or decent quality with stupidly high price tag?_

 

Ah, yes. That magical price tag, that in itself imbues a cable with equally miraculous sonics.

 However some years ago some enterprising folks figured out a way for you to get all the benefits of the high price tag without paying the high price.

 Here's their ad copy from back in 2002:

 It's the same old story.

 You've sacrificed, pinched your pennies and saved up for months. But it's been worth it and the time has finally come. You rush down to your local Radio Shack and moments later emerge the proud owner their best Gold Series interconnects.

 You break a dozen traffic laws racing home. You hook 'em up, turn on the power, cue up your favorite recording, and with your hands still dripping with the sweat of anticipation, your heart sinks.

 It's like listening to music through a pillow. Big, warm, fuzzy sound. ZERO clarity!

 You give Radio Shack a call to see if they can offer some assistance but the guy just started working there and his last job was selling orthopedic shoes.

 So you hop on the Internet and start poking around. Eventually you come across a lively discussion group bristling with experienced audiophiles. So you post a message detailing your plight, desparately pleading for help.

 Soon you get a reply. It reads: 

_Until you break the $300 per pair barrier, you probably will still have haze etc... The performance improves dramatically above this price point._

 Your heart sinks still lower.

 We know.

 You'd love nothing more than to own a much higher priced pair of interconnects but let's face it, not all of us have the deep pockets to spend even dozens let alone hundreds of dollars on cables.

 And with the uncertainty of war in the Middle East and major corporate scandals breaking every week turning the stock market inside out on top of a looming recession, it's not likely that a pay raise is in your future.

 We hear ya, bro.

 That's why the dedicated folks at Kludge Research, Inc. have spared no expense and invested countless hours in research and development to bring you what promises to be the most revolutionary audio product of the past century. And bring it to you at a price that even you can afford!

 Introducing, the Audiophile Pricetag!







 The Audiophile Pricetag will literally transform your cheap or giveaway interconnects into sonic marvels costing thousands of times more!

 The Audiophile Pricetag is no ordinary pricetag. It's hand-crafted from the finest materials available.

 The heavy-gauge, 99.9999% pure cotton string utilizes a proprietary twisting method which provides a superior connection to your existing cable.

 The manila card stock is made custom to our specifications from virgin stands of Douglas fir from the pacific northwest and is hand cut in our factory using techniques hundreds of years old with the price hand-written by one of our many craftspersons, signed and dated on the back of the tag.

 Our patented hole reinforcement technology assures that your Audiophile Pricetag will last a lifetime, even under continuous use.

 Best of all, the Audiophile Pricetag is being offered at the special introductory price of just $29.95!

 Imagine getting the performance of a $5,000 cable for less than pennies on the dollar!

 A bit tight on cash? No problem! Kludge Research, Inc. offers zero interest, six month financing. And if you act now, we'll defer your payments until January 2003!

 And for the Do-It-Yourselfer, the Audiophile Pricetag is also available in kit form at the substantially reduced price of just $19.95!

 Each kit comes with a pre-cut tag, hole reinforcer, string and a tube of glue. The 23 page instruction manual is clearly written and includes more than a dozen illustrations walking you step-by-step from preparation to installation.

 Let's hear what just one of our many satisfied customers has to say about this revolutionary new technology: 

_ I was skeptical at first. But that ended just a few measures into the first song when I realized that I'd soiled my pants! You should offer a diaper with this thing! It's THAT good! And if you don't believe me, just moments later my wife who has no interest at all in this audiophile stuff telephoned me from the neighbor's house three doors down and asked me if I'd changed something in my system!

 You guys are great!

 Baskin Ennison
 Runamok, South Dakota_

 It really is THAT good. In our own tests, we've even used the Audiophile Pricetag with interconnects made from coat hangers and bailing wire with the same result!

 Of course all great innovations have had their detractors and the Audiophile Pricetag is no exception. There have been a number of critics who have claimed that any two reasonably well designed pricetags will sound the same.

 We disagree. But who are we to say? Try it for yourself risk-free for 30 days. If you don't agree that it transforms even the cheapest interconnect into an interconnect costing $5,000, return it for a full refund.

 The Auidiophile Pricetag: You owe it to yourself.

 The Audiophile Pricetag is a registered trademark of Kludge Research, Inc. Copyright 2002 Kludge Research, Inc., all rights reserved. 






 k


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## iriverdude

See this thread

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/bu...cables-444246/


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## userlander

monoprice "premium." Can't get better for the money. They're often literally just pennies a cable, v. high quality.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See this thread_

 






 Jeebus! FOURTEEN power cords?

 What, are you running active speakers or something?

 And I don't think you ordered enough Ultra Purifiers. What were you going to plug the remaining two power cords into? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 k


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## iriverdude

Would be 15 once I get a BD player. No don't run active speakers, two pre-power systems, biamping, multiple poweramps. Wouldn't mind couple of subwoofer EQ units...that's two more IEC's, and RCA cables.


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## mrarroyo

Monoprice or Blue Jean Cable are very nice and fairly cheap.


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## Nigel79

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean reasonbly priced but decent quality, or decent quality with stupidly high price tag?_

 

reasonbly priced


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## TheMarchingMule

I have a BCJ at home. It's nice, but the cable is so incredibly stiff for its diameter, that it's a pain to try and shape between its connection points.

 I either go with RadioShack or now maybe monoprice.com from now on.


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## Nigel79

Well I just ordered a set of 1 Foot blue jeans with tech flex. Thanks for the advice guys!


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## koven

Blue jeans.


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## cafe zeenuts

Learn to DIY one, its really simple and its the best value for money cable you can have...


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## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cafe zeenuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Learn to DIY one, its really simple and its the best value for money cable you can have..._

 

x2

 Or find some one else to DIY for you. I used to buy from other DIYers before I started building my own. Much better price to performance than any big corporate entity.


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## nick_charles

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cafe zeenuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Learn to DIY one, its really simple and its the best value for money cable you can have..._

 

When you can get a Monoprice cable for $0.73, or $2.11 for a "premium" it is hard to see how a hobbyist could beat that, unless they do not cost their time of course....okay there is shipping as well that adds $1.73, so the total would be $3.84 for a premium cable. Could you even buy the parts for that , let alone the soldering iron and solder


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## Nebby

The better customization options, part quality, and self-satisfaction of a DIY cable could be factored into that "value". In terms of absolute price then yes the monoprice are cheaper but value is always subjective


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## nick_charles

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nebby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The better customization options, part quality, and self-satisfaction of a DIY cable could be factored into that "value". In terms of absolute price then yes the monoprice are cheaper but value is always subjective 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I agree that the satisfacton of doing it yourself is hard to quantify and that may be worth a great deal. 

 The ability to make something to your exact spec also agreed. 

 Where I have misgivings is over the whole part quality thing and how relevant it is wrt cables. 

 Sure some parts will last longer than others being better made and it is iritating to have to chuck out broken cables regardless of how cheap they were.

 However, assuming both make a good electrical contact will these better quality parts be audibly different from bog-standard parts?

 My own tests (measurements and blind tests) have not produced evidence to support this assertion for the samples I used, thus I have sold all my expensive cables and happily live with the cheap ones.


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## Nebby

I believe you have mistaken the point of my post. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Audibility of part quality has never really been a factor into my DIY cables. In the past I moved often, so cables with cheap connectors tended to fail quite quickly. I moved to building DIY cables with high quality jacks and tough inner construction (sealing connectors with epoxy or rubber sealant). Neutrik Pro-fi's or Canare connectors have yet to fail on me after multiple moves and some very rough treatment.

 Mind you, since I build my own cables an "expensive" DIY cable runs on the order of ~$10-$20 for parts depending on parts selected (generally stay away from the "audiophile" coatings/cryo treatments). For my DIY speaker I chose the Neutrik Speak-On connectors and they are seriously tough.


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## Valens7

I definitely like Enigma Audio. I'd also advise you check out YACCo. cables. They both do good work at affordable prices.


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## Adu

To choose a cable it's a difficult task, because we have different tast. In my case, sometimes I prefer a smoth, warm sound; in this case solid cooper cables are my favourite. 
 In the second case, if I want an aggressive sound, with an accent on highs, I prefer silver cables or cooper plated.
 Another issue are the components, the source we use.


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## Mediahound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_monoprice "premium." Can't get better for the money. They're often literally just pennies a cable, v. high quality._

 

I used to like these but I received a few that were defective out of the box so don't like them any more. Also, their 'premium' RCAs used to have all metal connectors (like Tartans) and now they are mostly plastic. Sometime in the last couple of years they changed 'em. I still have some of the older ones and they are good but the newer ones are not as good quality IMO and the current ones are the ones I received that were defective.

 For short RCAs, they are probably okay (just make sure you check them to make sure they work when you receive them). I actually have some Blue Jeans RCAs for longer runs and really like them even though they were *a lot* more expensive. The connectors on them are tops though as is the cable itself.


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## krmathis

Signal Cable get my vote.
 Nicely built and sounding cables, especially for the money.


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## roadcykler

With all the posts about BJC and other reasonably priced interconnects, how does a company like Nordhost stay in business? Their Tyr interconnects are $2000 for a pair that is all of a metre long. Sure they come in a fancy box but still.

 Then again, the profit margin on a pair of those is likely in the thousands of percent so selling even one pair would add to the bottom line quite effectively.


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## RicHSAD

I've been getting some of my cables from Infinite Cables. They basically sell Phantom Cables. They are Canadian based, but they ship to the US. Not sure for how much though.


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## Faxman

JPS Labs Aluminata interconnect..any time.


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## sonq

I've tried over a doz ICs and settled on the Anti-IC with bullet plug. All cables have a hosts of pros/cons and this one is not severely lacking in any one area. Tonally well balanced and able to reveal complex harmonics without overemphasizing treble.


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## Thaddy

Blue Jean Cables are the best if you're on a tight budget and want quality cables.  If you want to spend a bit more for similar quality with a bit more bling, go with Signal Cable.


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## Kiatchai

I have seen the ad  about the out of this world audio solar mkII interconnect .
  I wonder how can I purchase that,   any body has the link to get the cable
  thanks,
  Kiertijai


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## kboe

ALO SXC cables are bloody brilliant for the price. Every positive aspect in a cable one could look for, and the price is great for midfi components like yours and mine. My other recommendation would be something from Cardas, Im using the Quadlink in my system and am loving the sound.


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## cathare34

I have tried many cables and different prices on my Rotel system and the last year i have bought BLUE JEANS CABLES LC-1 with Techflex for my sytem and i am very happy with them they are quality and also cheap!!!!!!!


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## Heidegger

Did you actually listen to all the cables you tested?
  
  Quote: 





nick_charles said:


> Having tested cables ranging from 77c to $139 for noise and FR I suggest either Monoprice or Tartan cables, the Tartan are a bit pricier $5 vs $2.39 but they are a bit easier to work with (less stiff), functionally and audibly they are indistinguishable. None of the more expensive cables I tested were notably different on noise or FR apart from some silver cables which had a small noise spike at 8k.
> 
> If you really have to spend more money the Blue jeans cables tested equivalently to the Tartan and Monoprice.
> 
> ...


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## nick_charles

Quote: 





heidegger said:


> Did you actually listen to all the cables you tested?
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

 I did do listening tests on some of them I cannot recall all that I listened to, I certainly auditioned spc and solid copper audioquest cables. But this is a pointless distinction as they all measured extremely similarly - seldom differing by more than 0.05db. Funny both your posts so far are attacking me, with an almost Nazi like fervour , quite in keeping with your online name - coincidentally I bought one of my Ph.D. Professors a custom-designed  "Heidegger was a Nazi" T-Shirt as he would not accept payment for doing one of my experiments, I could never persuade him to wear it at the University though.
   
  Seriously though, the evidence for notable differences in standard analog audio cables is stunningly lacking. I've trawled for anything resembling a decent well-proctored statistically competent set of tests - nada , nowt , zip, zilch,bog-all. It does not mean it is impossible but it seems highly unlikley, certainly there is nothing in AES, ISO and IEEE archives to hint at this...


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## Heidegger

I think it's a smart thing to keep Nazis out of this, especially considering that what we are discussing (cables) is so relatively trivial. But since you mentioned it: Heidegger did become a National Socialist in order to become Rector of the University of Freiburg. At the time, nobody could run a German university without joining the party. However, it should be recognized that Heidegger fell out with the party very quickly, resigned his post at the univeristy within a year, and started attacking the Nazis in his lectures, even making fun of them for always wearing uniforms. Heidegger and the Nazis did not see eye to eye. He particularly disagreed with their biologically based racism. The Nazis for their part did not like Heidegger and put him under surveillance of the Gestapo. They did not consider him one of them. If he didn't renounce his party membership, it is my belief that that was because it would have put him and his family in even greater jeopardy than they already were. It's really asking a lot to say he should have resigned the party considering what he was going through with them at the time.
   
  Anyhow, no -- I am not attacking you with Nazi-like fervor. I just think one should always use one's ears. I do not even dispute your findings regarding the cables. I took your advice and went for the $6 pair.


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## Uncle Erik

Heidigger, what on Earth makes you think that human ears are reliable?

There's an inverse relationship between the amount of evidence for cables and the amount of evidence demonstrating human fallibility.

If you're trying to be open-minded, how about considering that you might be experiencing something that doesn't actually exist? Certainly well within the realm of possibility.

How about you demonstrate that humans _aren't_ affected by placebo and expectation? If you could do that, maybe I'd take testimonial evidence seriously.

Until you rule those out, the "differences" you think exist are possibly imagined. An open mind means that you have to consider all of the possibilities. You cannot pick and choose what you are going to test. You have to test everything. If you refuse to rule out imagined differences, you're being intellectually dishonest.


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## ThumperSD

Does it matter what type of RCA cables you use? I purchased a $4 RCA cable from Amazon for my KRK Rokits. Will I benefit from a better quality RCA cable?


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## Adu

*DNM Reson* -I believe that this cable is the best value for the money in the price range (around 100Euro); this cable have a warm sound (not edgy sound) a sweet midrange and good, deep bass. On the negative side, DNM have a little bit small soundstage than the rivals and maybe not so dynamic.
  I have try many cables in this price range and near (Profigold pga3000, Qed gunex3, Qed qunex silver spiral) but believe me, none of this cables have more natural sound signature than DNM.


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## googleborg

that dnm cable looks an awful lot like a coloured FM aeriel cable that i'm holding here...
   
   
  of course, i'm sure it's not.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  edit: actually i wonder how fm aerial cable would fare as interconnect wire?  the stuff is _incredibly _cheap.  you could print your own name on the middle bit and colour the sides and err...uh...yeah.


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## debitsohn

Quote: 





adu said:


> *DNM Reson* -I believe that this cable is the best value for the money in the price range (around 100Euro); this cable have a warm sound (not edgy sound) a sweet midrange and good, deep bass. On the negative side, DNM have a little bit small soundstage than the rivals and maybe not so dynamic.
> I have try many cables in this price range and near (Profigold pga3000, Qed gunex3, Qed qunex silver spiral) but believe me, none of this cables have more natural sound signature than DNM.


 


  when you say neutral sound (for a interconnect), and i know its different for headphones, but essentially what you mean by neutral with ICs is that it doesnt add any color to the setup right? couldnt that mean that it just doesnt change anything? ICs  confuse me.


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## JRG1990

I like these http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/dynamic/eshop_products.set/ref/2881/fisual-havana-audio-stereo-phono-cable/display.html , look nice and very flexiable for a thick cable, these are also
  good http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=43_1&products_id=1 , like the blue jeans just a piece of canare LV61S with a canare rca connecter crimped on the end can't go wrong with them.


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## Heidegger

Quote: 





uncle erik said:


> Heidigger, what on Earth makes you think that human ears are reliable?
> 
> There's an inverse relationship between the amount of evidence for cables and the amount of evidence demonstrating human fallibility.
> 
> ...


 


 Heidigger, what on Earth makes you think that human ears are reliable? <<<<<<<<< The fact that they helped keep our ancestors safe in the wilderness for so many millions of years, and continue to be successfully used by animals to this day. Obviously or hearing and our other senses can deceive us _sometimes_, but your argument seems to be that they deceive us _all_ the time, and that I cannot accept. So you see, I don't rule out that perceived differences could be imaged. The question is whether _you_ rule out the possiblity that our hearing could ever be accurate. Now if you are referring to the difference I perceive between the stock Sennheiser cable and the Cardas, everone who has listened to both has told me the same thing: clear difference. What I do think is closed minded is for people to determine that there is no difference between them when they haven't even listened with their own ears. They make up their mind that there simply _can't_ be a difference and therefore they won't even listen to them because of course if they did hear a difference it would just be the placebo effect so why even bother. Now _that_'_s_ being closed minded. The main difference I perceive between my stock and Cardas headphone cables is a sparkle in the sound. Now how do you go about measuring that?


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## Adu

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Any IC's add's some "colours" to the sound, it doesn't exist the perfect cable. DNM cables are (in my humble opinion) the perfect value for the money. Of course, some cables  are more detailed  or have much more soundstage than this, but in this price range and above I believe that DNM rules.
   


  Quote: 





googleborg said:


> that dnm cable looks an awful lot like a coloured FM aeriel cable that i'm holding here...
> 
> 
> of course, i'm sure it's not.
> ...


 
  For me it doesn't counts the looks, it's important the sound. Of course, DNM looks cheap but the sound of it it's GREAT (in my opinion).


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## googleborg

heidegger, our hearing is not just about our ears, the brain can do all sorts of magic - our ears, or rather our _hearing_, like all our other senses continuously adjust to the environment and to what they hear.
   
  in short, what you _hear _has little to do with what is _there_.  All our senses do this, for example our sight (not our eyeballs) literally makes things up!  This is why when i listen to music at night looking at a starry sky, it sounds so much better.  It's the same music, only_ i _have changed.
   
  it's pretty funny when people suggest our hearing is a reliably consistent measuring tool that, absurdly, can detect hitherto unmeasurable factors that not even cable designers know how to implement (apart from price, they know how to implement that).
   
  @Adu, indeed, my ICs are all out of view so i don't care much for looks either


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## Heidegger

Quote: 





googleborg said:


> 1. in short, what you _hear _has little to do with what is _there_.
> 
> 2. All our senses do this, for example our sight (not our eyeballs) literally makes things up!
> 
> 3. it's pretty funny when people suggest our hearing is a reliably consistent measuring tool that, absurdly, can detect hitherto unmeasurable factors that not even cable designers know how to implement (apart from price, they know how to implement that).


 

 1. What we hear has _little_ to do with what is there? Surely that is a bit of an exageration on your part.
   
  2. Our sight _can_ deceive us _sometimes, _but most of the time it serves us quite well. It is nothing short of absurd to claim that we perpetually go about in a fantasy world created by our senses.
   
  3. That _is_ pretty funny. Unfortunately, I never stated such a thing nor do I hold that position. My position is, contrary to the view of seemingly the majority of people on this forum, that our senses are not deceiving us _all_ the time. Sometimes and very often in fact they do reveal phenomena that are not chimerical. But I've never held that "hearing is a reliably consistent measuring tool," which are of course your words not mine.
   
  Finally, if you have not personally compared the stock Sennheiser cable with the Cardas, hold your peace as you know not of what you speak. The difference is _obvious. _The Cardas noticeably _brightens_ the sound. Anybody with even below average hearing can spot the difference a mile a way. Literally _everyone_ who has listened to both cables here has heard it. When you change back to the stock cable much of the luster and sparkle is gone. That is a _fact_. Sorry if it so inconveniences your preconceived notions about things of which you are in no position to judge.


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## googleborg

oddly enough i almost had to replace my hd555's cable just 'cos my iron nearly melted through it >_<
   
  1) yes, i did exaggerate a bit  but hearing is a sense that happens inside the brain, and is affected (thankfully, else it would be useless to us) by tons of other things, probably even the colour of the walls...it is emotion afterall...
   
  2) no really, whenever you look at something, you see a pinpoint bit in actual full detail, the rest of your vision will be unfocused - your brain is just 'filling it in' with what you expect to be there coupled with what the eyeball 'reports', only focusing on movement (again, this is very useful to us, making the most out of our eyeballs, sensitivity and full detail where needed)
   
  3) never said you did, but you made out like hearing was some amazing thing that has served us for millions of years...indeed it has, but nothing to do with hearing differences (hearing, is to do with the brain, not just the ear...) in cables, that's not what it's for nor remotely capable at.
   
  so barring stray soldering irons and my lax attention, why would i replace my headphones cable when nobody can tell me why or how the cables affect the sound....i'd have to be quite gullible to 'buy them to see for myself' (i would only trust ABX as i am fallible like everyone else) considering i've ran a battery of my own tests on seeing how bad i can make a cable before i hear a change (it took a single tiny thread of grubby copper wire as an interconnect before things sounded kinda 'off', and digital cables either worked or didn't.....)
   
   
  perhaps the cardas does brighten the sound, such would be easily measurable by a machine.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> The fact that they helped keep our ancestors safe in the wilderness for so many millions of years, and continue to be successfully used by animals to this day.


 
   
  A rather bad example which actually defeats your argument.
   
  Evolution gave humans brains which are actually wired to _overdetect_. Better that you should run from the predator you_ thought_ you heard than be eaten by the one you didn't.
   
  In other words, mother nature erred on the side of caution.
   
  A great tool for surviving in the wild. Not so great when it comes to the reliability of our senses.
   
  Quote: 





> Obviously or hearing and our other senses can deceive us _sometimes_, but your argument seems to be that they deceive us _all_ the time, and that I cannot accept.


 
   
  The argument is that until you adequately control for the fallibility of human subjective perception (beyond ego, vanity and blind faith), you don't know whether you're being fooled or not.
   
  Quote: 





> So you see, I don't rule out that perceived differences could be imaged. The question is whether _you_ rule out the possiblity that our hearing could ever be accurate.


 
   
  The possibility can't be unequivocally ruled out. But it's rather moot until such time as someone can convincingly show that it is.
   
  Quote: 





> Now if you are referring to the difference I perceive between the stock Sennheiser cable and the Cardas, everone who has listened to both has told me the same thing: clear difference.


 
   
  Which does not, in and of itself, prove anything.
   
  Quote: 





> What I do think is closed minded is for people to determine that there is no difference between them when they haven't even listened with their own ears.


 
   
  And how exactly does that change anything? Their listening with their own ears proves nothing more than your listening with your own ears.
   
  So what's your point?
   
  Quote: 





> The main difference I perceive between my stock and Cardas headphone cables is a sparkle in the sound. Now how do you go about measuring that?


 
   
  You don't.
   
  You've got your cart before your horse.
   
  First you establish that there is in fact an actual audible difference. Then you know you've got something to actually look for. Otherwise, you can waste a lot of time chasing a phantom.
   
  se


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## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





adu said:


> Any IC's add's some "colours" to the sound, it doesn't exist the perfect cable.


 
   
  The perfect cable doesn't have to exist as our hearing itself is hardly perfect.
   
  In order for a cable to effectively be "perfect," all it has to do is keep from altering the signal to such a degree that our limited sense of hearing is able to detect it.
   
  And the evidence so far (or perhaps more to the point the lack of any convincing evidence) indicates that this is rather trivially easy to do.
   
  se


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





> Finally, if you have not personally compared the stock Sennheiser cable with the Cardas, hold your peace as you know not of what you speak. The difference is _obvious. _The Cardas noticeably _brightens_ the sound. Anybody with even below average hearing can spot the difference a mile a way. Literally _everyone_ who has listened to both cables here has heard it. When you change back to the stock cable much of the luster and sparkle is gone. That is a _fact_.


 

 I'm sure it's a fact that that's what you subjectively perceive. But that doesn't establish as fact that there's necessarily any actual audible difference between the two cables. However if it's truly a "mile away" difference, then it should be trivially easy to demonstrate its audibility.
   
  se


----------



## Adu

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, what you say is right.


----------



## Heidegger

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


>


 


 1. "Evolution gave humans brains which are actually wired to _overdetect_. Better that you should run from the predator you_ thought_ you heard than be eaten by the one you didn't." 
   
  You're only looking at one side of it. Hearing is adequately used in hunting and other applications to an almost unbelievable degree of exactness and precision.
   
  2. "Which does not, in and of itself, prove anything."
   
  That implies that my intention was to prove something. "Proof" implies a totally different context of scientific rigor and exactness that is meant for the laboratory or for logical argumentation. I was discussing my personal subjective experience with the two cables. You can take it with a grain of salt or wipe your tush with it, it makes no difference to me. I do know that you will be missing out on a big improvement in sound, but that is your problem and your loss, not mine.
   
  3. "First you establish that there is in fact an actual audible difference." 
  
  That is established first _of itself _since I have actually heard the cables.  The difference in sound jumps out at you. It's not a borderline difference _maybe I hear it, maybe I don't, I'm not too sure _kind of situation_.  _But of course, I've actually heard the two cables and know of what I speak. Obviously you have never heard them and therefore cannot know what is _actually_ the case. You're just speaking theoretically and in general. In fact, you might as well be telling me that I don't _really _see this computer monitor that's in front of me because our senses are notoriously untrustworthy. My reply to which is _bollocks._ You have no idea how absurd your statements are in the face of the shining, self-evident situation. But of course it is not self-evident to you because you have never actually heard the Cardas headphone cable in comparison with the Sennheiser. Since you really have no idea what you are talking about you can only offer theoretical truisms about what _should_ be the case, not what is in fact _actually_ the case. You are the one who is putting the cart in front of the horse by putting theory before reality.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





heidegger said:


> You're only looking at one side of it. Hearing is adequately used in hunting and other applications to an almost unbelievable degree of exactness and precision.


 

 I was looking at the side that's germane to this discussion.
   
  Quote: 





> That implies that my intention was to prove something. "Proof" implies a totally different context of scientific rigor and exactness that is meant for the laboratory or for logical argumentation. I was discussing my personal subjective experience with the two cables.


 
   
  No, you weren't simply discussing your personal subjective experience. You went well beyond that. To wit:
   
_The difference is obvious. The Cardas noticeably brightens the sound. Anybody with even below average hearing can spot the difference a mile a way._
   
  Here you're making the decidedly _objective_ claim of actual audibility. And claims such as this come with the burden of proof.
   
  Quote: 





> That is established first _of itself _since I have actually heard the cables.


 
   
  I'm sorry, but your subjective experience in and of itself does not establish actual audibility.
   
  Quote: 





> The difference in sound jumps out at you. It's not a borderline difference _maybe I hear it, maybe I don't, I'm not too sure _kind of situation_._


 
   
  So? People have said much the same thing about all sorts of silly things such as photographs in their freezers, magic crystals on their speaker terminals, etc.
   
  Quote: 





> But of course, I've actually heard the two cables and know of what I speak.


 
   
  All you know of is your own subjective experience. Which we know isn't always the unerring reflection of reality that we'd like to believe.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Obviously you have never heard them and therefore cannot know what is _actually_ the case.


 
   
  I never made any claim to know what is_ actually_ the case. You are the one who has done that. All I have claimed is that your subjective experience alone does not establish actual audibility as per your claim.
   
  Quote: 





> You are the one who is putting the cart in front of the horse by putting theory before reality.


 
   
  What I speak of is reality. The reality that human beings are prone to subjectively perceiving differences even when there are no actual physical differences. The reality that subjective experience alone does not establish actual audibility.
   
  That's the reality. And until it is adequately controlled for beyond ego, vanity and denial, you are left with ambiguity. And as long as there is ambiguity, you can't come to any firm conclusions one way or the other.
   
  se


----------



## Uncle Erik

I've owned the Cardas Sennheiser cable. There was no difference. I left it on for a couple of years to make sure.

The standard reply is that there's something wrong with my hearing. I doubt it. I've spent a few thousand hours playing music and have very good relative pitch. I can tell when my instrument goes sharp or flat and can tune myself nicely compared to electronic tuners.

But the cables did nothing. My oscilloscope and DMM agreed.

Are you saying that you're completely immune to things like optical illusions? They get me every time. Seem to fool everyone else, as well. What you think you're hearing is the result of expectation and placebo. This is well-illustrated by numerous tests of wine. People taste what they expect to taste. Tell them that it is an expensive wine and they think they're tasting an expensive wine. This is a normal human reaction. You're not a bad person and there's nothing wrong with you. You're simply hearing what you expect to hear.

This is why cable "differences" vanish when a person doesn't know what cable they're listening to. Take away the expectation and the difference disappears. You'll probably launch into a complicated explanation of why the listening tests are "invalid," but the simple truth is that they negate expectation and placebo biases. Without those, cables all sound the same. This has been demonstrated time and time again.

And if your ears are so golden, please tell us about the channel imbalances in your gear. If you've ever worked with electronics, you'll know that there is a tolerance in every cap and resistor. Usually 10% or so, but the very best can be 1%. I strongly doubt your equipment is at 1% or better. That takes buying a quantity of each component and carefully matching them between channels. That's very expensive and I don't know of any manufacturer that precisely matches channels. Meaning that there is probably a 10% or so difference between the left and right channels in your gear.

Can you tell me which channel is stronger than the other in your rig?

Now, it'd be a simple matter to take a DMM and measure the difference between R1, etc. in your left and right channels. This could be done with a wide variety of test gear, all producing the same numbers. And there will be differences between channels in 20-40 components in your gear.

How can you hear _unmeasurable_ differences in cables when you cannot hear the _measurable_ differences between left and right? If your ears are that sensitive, then you should be hopping mad that your left and right channels don't sound precisely the same. It'd be quite easy to prove, without question, that your left and right channels have different output.

So which channel is stronger than the other in your amp?


----------



## Happy Camper

Spoken like a professional lawyer.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Spoken like a professional lawyer? Then there's some profit in it somewhere! Why else be a lawyer?


----------



## Heidegger

Quote: 





uncle erik said:


> I've owned the Cardas Sennheiser cable. There was no difference. I left it on for a couple of years to make sure.
> 
> The standard reply is that there's something wrong with my hearing. I doubt it. I've spent a few thousand hours playing music and have very good relative pitch. I can tell when my instrument goes sharp or flat and can tune myself nicely compared to electronic tuners.
> 
> ...


 

 I won't even begin to go there regarding the channel imbalance since whatever imbalance I do perceive might be due to slightly less sensitive hearing in one ear than the other or to the recording or to other factors such as the one you mention. You are so persuasive that I actually took my stock cable out and started using it to see if I noticed any difference. Maybe I was imagining it. Nope. Immediate perceptible difference.  I will say you are the very _first_ person who has actually listened to both cables and didn't hear a difference. Congratulations on that. I won't criticize your hearing.  I'll just stick to the Cardas. It's no skin off anyone's back which cable I listen to.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

It normally doesn't take two years to hear a difference...


----------



## Uncle Erik

No, you hear a difference immediately if you think you're going to hear a difference.

But if you don't know what you're listening to, no one ever hears a difference. Take expectation out of the equation and no one can tell.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Nice rationalization UE...


----------



## 9pintube

To Each Their Own!!!! We have Believers and the Non-Believers, that's what makes the world go round!!! Or is it?


----------



## scottiebabie

yo who cares if its just illusions or if its just memorex so long as its good. didnt some sage once said "lifes but an illusion" so whether thats truth or not, if a person hears a difference then that what counts. no point trying to debunk something someone else spending their money on. afterall its their money so its all good. 
   
  & yes i now believe cos i hear a diff. mite make me a fool but hey so long as im a happy fool, i glad to be one


----------



## matthewh133

What do you guys reckon about these? Are they a good budget minded cable?
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300309749544&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## constajadis

I have a few Nordost RCAs Cables (SPM and quatrofilm) and I very happy  with them


----------



## mukumi

Hi here, i'm new to this forum! I'm actually a noob audiophile (even dwarves start from the bottom) and i was wondering if a change of cables could enhance my experience of sound. I'm actually using a X-Fi HD usb with M-Audio AV40 connected via RCA but i bought the cheapest RCA ones since i didn't know if it changes anything. So if anyone could give me any idea about this, i would really appreciate it


----------



## tmars78

mukumi said:


> Hi here, i'm new to this forum! I'm actually a noob audiophile (even dwarves start from the bottom) and i was wondering if a change of cables could enhance my experience of sound. I'm actually using a X-Fi HD usb with M-Audio AV40 connected via RCA but i bought the cheapest RCA ones since i didn't know if it changes anything. So if anyone could give me any idea about this, i would really appreciate it




You are opening a HUGE can of worms. There are some here that will say as long as it is built decent that is all that you need when it comes to a cable. There are others that will tell you that you need to spend $$$$$$$$ for one, as it really helps. And then those same people will tell you that if you bought a super expensive cable, but still cannot hear a difference, all of your equipment sucks. My opinion is, as long as its decently built, you're fine. Your money would be better spent elsewhere, where there are known and audible improvements.


----------



## Lenni

mukumi, I wouldn't worry much about cables at the moment if I were you; instead I'll look to upgrade the speakers, if possible. one choice of powered monitors would be the KRK's. lot's of advice to be found here about active speakers. find a local guitar store, they usually carry powered monitors, try to audition speakers just to get an idea of different sound. but most important don't buy something because it says "it's best", learn to trust your ears... welcome to the madness


----------



## Lenni

there's no can of worms to be opened, not even a tiny one - doesn't exist. It's all a lack of prospective. I guess this usually happen when people talk about something they don't have experience with. it's pretty obvious recommending expensive cables in this case would be totally senseless and needless. was he using $2k speakers with other associated components then I'd definitely recommend him to try better cables. and you know why? because I've actually tried the damn thing, it's personal experience; unlike most of you naysayers who only speak out of some improvised theories. please, get your facts straight.
   
  Quote: 





tmars78 said:


> You are opening a HUGE can of worms. There are some here that will say as long as it is built decent that is all that you need when it comes to a cable. There are others that will tell you that you need to spend $$$$$$$$ for one, as it really helps. And then those same people will tell you that if you bought a super expensive cable, but still cannot hear a difference, all of your equipment sucks. My opinion is, as long as its decently built, you're fine. Your money would be better spent elsewhere, where there are known and audible improvements.


----------



## tmars78

lenni said:


> there's no can of worms to be opened, not even a tiny one - doesn't exist. It's all a lack of prospective. I guess this usually happen when people talk about something they don't have experience with. it's pretty obvious recommending expensive cables in this case would be totally senseless and needless. was he using $2k speakers with other associated components then I'd definitely recommend him to try better cables. and you know why? because I've actually tried the damn thing, it's personal experience; unlike most of you naysayers who only speak out of some improvised theories. please, get your facts straight.




Aaaaaaand, you ripped the lid off of the can of worms I was referring to. And get our facts straight? All the naysayers do is provide facts. And that is all I have to say. I knew this would open a can of worms, and it did.


----------



## Lenni

mmm... perhaps I should be more considerate about how I express thoughts. the comment does seem confrontational, but that's really not my prime intention (more like lost in translation) . I'm just trying to make a point across. I do apologise if it's the case.
   
  well, it's open now...


----------



## Mkubota1

Quote: 





uncle erik said:


> How can you hear _unmeasurable_ differences in cables when you cannot hear the _measurable_ differences between left and right? If your ears are that sensitive, then you should be hopping mad that your left and right channels don't sound precisely the same. It'd be quite easy to prove, without question, that your left and right channels have different output.


 

 There you go again with logic and consistency.
   
  Quote: 





heidegger said:


> I will say you are the very _first_ person who has actually listened to both cables and didn't hear a difference. Congratulations on that. I won't criticize your hearing.


 

 Damn... that makes me the second person.
   
  To each his own- absolutely.  The problem is when someone asks for purchasing advice.  While I don't doubt that there are many subtle differences among certain components and combinations within, I think the danger comes when those differences are over-stated.  I get a little tired of these huge day-and-night differences that can't be picked out of a simple (blind and impartial) line-up.


----------



## cswann1

Quote: 





heidegger said:


> *I will say you are the very first person who has actually listened to both cables and didn't hear a difference*.


 


  OMG......Heidegger knows whether every person on Earth has tested these cables AND that they did or did not detect a difference.
   
   
  Are you God?  And if you are, could you please tell your Catholic child molesters to knock it off?  Thank you.


----------



## fatcat28037

I have to go along with a bunch of others who posted and recommend Bluejeans Cables. Custom made, high quality, very reasonably priced and shipped super fast.


----------



## Heidegger

Quote: 





cswann1 said:


> OMG......Heidegger knows whether every person on Earth has tested these cables AND that they did or did not detect a difference.
> 
> 
> Are you God?  And if you are, could you please tell your Catholic child molesters to knock it off?  Thank you.


 


 Obviously -- or perhaps not so obviously -- I meant anybody I know. Not that I know Uncle E, but he was literally the first person I know of who didn't hear a difference between the stock Senn cable and the Cardas.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


heidegger said:


> Obviously -- or perhaps not so obviously -- I meant anybody I know. Not that I know Uncle E, but he was literally the first person I know of who didn't hear a difference between the stock Senn cable and the Cardas.


 

 I like that it took you a month to post a response, and yet you still did.  That dude's probably long forgotten about this thread by this point.


----------



## Lenni

Quote: 





cswann1 said:


> Are you God?  And if you are, could you please tell your Catholic child molesters to knock it off?  Thank you.


 



   
   
   
_sorry but could not resist_


----------



## Vince325

Quote: 





deltaspirit said:


> I would recommend cables from a member here skyline889, they're fairly cheap use quality parts and look amazing.


 


  Delta I've tried to figure out how to contact skyline889 but cant figure it out. Any help would be greatly appreciated I could use a few quality cables.


----------



## Prog Rock Man

I recommend ThatCable for all of your cabling needs. The reason being build quality and price.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Cardas, Kimber, AudioQuest, Radio Shack, Blue Jeans,Jenna, et al. all make well made cables and they all work.


----------



## Maverickmonk

I can't help but point out that the effects of Godwin's law have been demonstrated here, and it's only page 3. Perhaps the validity of boutique audio cables have a higher coefficient of Nuremberg-probability than less hotly contested topics such as religion and the assassination of JFK.
  
  References: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law (Yeah I referenced wikipedia, there are limits to my scholarly talent)
   
  I'm terribly sorry, but I've been waiting for an excuse to invoke Godwin's law ever since I witnessed my first epic cable debate here on head-fi. Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





heidegger said:


> I think it's a smart thing to keep Nazis out of this,


----------



## Heidegger

Here's a quotation from my amp's User Manual that should get everybody's hackles up: "The Linear USB offers superb sonic quality. To ensure best possible results, you should use the best quality connecting cables that you can afford. Regular maintenance involves keeping all connections clean using a quality contact cleaner."-- page 2


----------



## Uncle Erik

Heidigger, what does the manual's author base that on? Just because they wrote it doesn't mean a thing. I can write a manual that says that cables and cleaners mean nothing. Would my manual have the same weight as your manual? If so, how would you reconcile the contradiction? Also, appeal to authority is one of the classic logical fallacies.

If you want to appeal to testimonials, then I assert that that cables mean nothing. I've listened to several and they're all the same. I've also had quite a few audio devices from the 1940s through the 1960s. I've never noticed a difference with the old contacts/connectors. Even a good bit of corrosion doesn't matter.

Sure, that conflicts with popular cable mythology. But I've never seen any evidence to the contrary. If you have some, please post it.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Gee UE, I think we should start another DBT thread, on manuals...  
   
  I think you should start a trend using DIY coat hanger IC's, include published frequency response curves, distortion and FFT graphs, including manuals for break-in and direction, sell 'em cheap!
   
  Speaking from authority? Isn't that what you're doing by citing your own personal opinions and experience? It's just your opinion, "I've never noticed a difference..." Why should we take your opinion over anyone else's? Because you never noticed a difference? Who cares what you have and haven't noticed? 
   
  You're mixing your own personal experience and testimonials with "evidence." Which is it going to be?


----------



## Happy Camper

How about letting people believe what they want?


----------



## RexAeterna

if you don't mind DIY you can make cheap high qaulity rca jacks with 16 gauge or thicker. not very hard. just need to know what's the ground and hot terminals. you can google it to find out. i mean most rca jacks are fine especially if about 12ft or under be fine. i like to use monoprice as well sometimes. they offer nice prices for cables.


----------



## RexAeterna

cables really don't matter or price. it depends on the measurement and gauge for that measurement use. most rca jacks be more then fine and if you need to clean some contacts then some radioshack cleaner work great for lubercating and deoxidizing the contacts if needed.
  
  Quote: 





heidegger said:


> Here's a quotation from my amp's User Manual that should get everybody's hackles up: "The Linear USB offers superb sonic quality. To ensure best possible results, you should use the best quality connecting cables that you can afford. Regular maintenance involves keeping all connections clean using a quality contact cleaner."-- page 2


----------



## Prog Rock Man

Quote: 





happy camper said:


> How about letting people believe what they want?


 

 Depends how they gained their beliefs. If someone was perpetuating a myth as a belief and misinforming and making unfounded claims, should that not be challenged?


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


prog rock man said:


> If someone was perpetuating a myth as a belief and misinforming and making unfounded claims, should that not be challenged?


 
   
  You mean like organized religion?


----------



## Prog Rock Man

No I am thinking more along the lines of consumer protection against misselling.


----------



## Heidegger

UE, I wasn't offering it as any sort of evidence. Personally, I've never cleaned a contact in my life, much less with a "high quality cleaner." I just plug in my rca cables and they pretty much stay plugged in forever unless I change gear or move it around.
  Quote: 





uncle erik said:


> Heidigger, what does the manual's author base that on? Just because they wrote it doesn't mean a thing. I can write a manual that says that cables and cleaners mean nothing. Would my manual have the same weight as your manual? If so, how would you reconcile the contradiction? Also, appeal to authority is one of the classic logical fallacies.
> 
> If you want to appeal to testimonials, then I assert that that cables mean nothing. I've listened to several and they're all the same. I've also had quite a few audio devices from the 1940s through the 1960s. I've never noticed a difference with the old contacts/connectors. Even a good bit of corrosion doesn't matter.
> 
> Sure, that conflicts with popular cable mythology. But I've never seen any evidence to the contrary. If you have some, please post it.


----------



## El_Doug

yes, exactly like organized religion
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> You mean like organized religion?


----------



## JRG1990

I have tried this http://www.bluehorizonideas.com/cleanit.html , I cleaned every contact in my system with it, including the fuses, fuse holders, mains plugs / connectors, rca pins it does clean the contacts really well removes all dirt and they come up really shiny but there is no audible difference.


----------



## Prog Rock Man

Quote: 





el_doug said:


> yes, exactly like organized religion


 

 So the banks are organised religions? They have mis-sold credit, debt, insurance, mortgages etc etc. Then there are companies who have been found to be mis-selling diet pills and bogus medical cures. I am talking about consumer protection from companies and individuals who make bogus claims. Start off with Ben Goldacre's Bad Science if you really want to start to understand the impact of making bogus claims for products. You are barking up the wrong tree with religion.


----------



## Lenni

Quote:  





>





> You mean like organized religion?


 

  
  yeah like the religion of science.


----------



## Prog Rock Man

I know you guys like to use appeals to religion to try and dismiss arguments you do not like. I notice how none of you are able to directly challenge what I am talking about, which is using bogus claims to sell products.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/533881/russ-andrews-forced-to-withdraw-a-claim-about-power-cables
   
  The more expensive a cable, the more likely it needs pseudoscience claims, which are usually bogus to try and justify the price. Cheaper cables, especially those used in the pro audio world, cannot use such psuedoscience to sell as it does not work on those who know about what they are buying.
   
  Other reasons not to buy high end audiophile cables are
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/461656/warren-audio-s-broken-hd800-cables
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/551156/whiplash-twag-cables-turning-green-split-from-jh13-appreciation-thread
   
  where smaller makers do not have the quality control the larger makers have.
   
  All of the above is very useful information when helping people to decide on the best cables for the money.


----------



## El_Doug

Banks are not organized religions, that is a really stupid comment that you know is not true, and using it to dismiss my statement is rather insulting.  You know as well as anyone that as far as banks go, there is still proof that they (1) exist, and (2) their products are based in reality, bound by contract law.  As for the people who buy these products, when their house is foreclosed on, they damned sure blame the bank, and do not make any statement such as, "sure I lost my house, but it wasnt because my mortgage was taken away... it was because of some immeasurable force that you are simply too ignorant to try to understand, and have not experienced because you still have your house." 
   
  On the other hand, cable companies are exactly LIKE organized religion, in that they make completely baseless claims about miraculous levels of effect without a single shred of measurable change, while managing to charge a lot of money.  Their customers, who come to their defense, do so with levels of zeal that would impress the crusaders, based on pure blind faith alone. 
  
  Quote: 





prog rock man said:


> So the banks are organised religions? They have mis-sold credit, debt, insurance, mortgages etc etc. Then there are companies who have been found to be mis-selling diet pills and bogus medical cures. I am talking about consumer protection from companies and individuals who make bogus claims. Start off with Ben Goldacre's Bad Science if you really want to start to understand the impact of making bogus claims for products. You are barking up the wrong tree with religion.


 

  
  edit:  removed bank debate, focused more on difference between banks and cable companies


----------



## Prog Rock Man

I love the way you describe my comment as stupid and then complain about being insulted. One rule for you and another for the rest?
   
  Anyway, there has been a mix up here as I believed sridhar3 and then yourself were comparing what I had to say with challenging religion. It is not, it is about challenging claims made by industry to sell things, in this case cable companies. I used banks as an example as they have repeatedly mis-sold all sorts of products for years now. As far as I am concerned, the hifi industry is also guilty of wholesale mis-selling, particularly with cables.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Touché... 
  
  Quote: 





lenni said:


> yeah like the religion of science.


----------



## Permagrin

Since this debate has never been settled I submit that as proof that cables actually may affect the signal. Thank you.


----------



## El_Doug

So many passive aggressive personal attacks :/  Can't give it a rest, eh? 
   
  My initial comment had nothing to do with what you said, I was expressing my own, separate opinion about cables/religion - I did not mean to suggest that I was interpreting your post.  If it did seem so, I apologize.  However, I WAS in fact comparing cable companies with religion   Whether anyone wants to challenge either is up to them.  While you took the angle of false sales tactics, I am taking the angle of blind faith in spite of zero evidence.  I hope this clears it up for you
  
  Quote: 





prog rock man said:


> I love the way you describe my comment as stupid and then complain about being insulted. One rule for you and another for the rest?
> 
> Anyway, there has been a mix up here as I believed sridhar3 and then yourself were comparing what I had to say with challenging religion. It is not, it is about challenging claims made by industry to sell things, in this case cable companies. I used banks as an example as they have repeatedly mis-sold all sorts of products for years now. As far as I am concerned, the hifi industry is also guilty of wholesale mis-selling, particularly with cables.


----------



## Prog Rock Man

Quote: 





permagrin said:


> Since this debate has never been settled I submit that as proof that cables actually may affect the signal. Thank you.


 

 There is proof in the Sound Science part of this forum and for further reading google audiophile cables and then you have to sift through a mountain of bunk, flame wars and trolling. I agree the debate has never been settled, but I do think that the evidence for and against cables affecting signals, how audible the effects are and whethercable companies can justify their claims is pretty settled.


----------



## Permagrin

prog rock man said:


> There is proof in the Sound Science part of this forum and for further reading google audiophile cables and then you have to sift through a mountain of bunk, flame wars and trolling. I agree the debate has never been settled, but I do think that the evidence for and against cables affecting signals, how audible the effects are and whethercable companies can justify their claims is pretty settled.




I know I know, just being silly. I've read some (too much) already and participated in some (unfortunately). I see how both sides are right in what they say but yeah unfortunately it gets way too heated.


----------



## Prog Rock Man

Advice on surviving cable threads
   
  - use the block member option for those who bring nothing new, troll or flame
   
   - grow some new skin............


----------



## Permagrin

Yeah, I just don't care about it anymore. Thick skin? Whatever. I was just amazed to find that there are people on these forums who I would consider the "crusaders" of the snake oil, cables.

"We must save those who are so rich that they will throw their money away on something that doesn't add 5% to their system because we have scientific proof that under clinical conditions some people couldn't tell the difference!"

That's when I turned around and walked away.

Cheers!


----------



## Prog Rock Man

I don't bother about what cables others want to buy. I wanted to understand why some said they make a difference and others do not, why the differences often contradict each other and what was the science/evidence behind it all.
   
  If it is appropriate I will post such and if people want to spend money on cables once they have both sides to the debate, so be it.
   
  There are after all very good reason why cables can sound better/different from one another.


----------



## kellzey

Just ordered some BJC RCA itnerconnects and a Coax cable.
   
  Seems to be the best value for the quality
   
  Thanks for all of the good input here!
   
  Q


----------



## twylight

monoprice and stop wasting money on this stuff


----------



## kellzey

Started using my Blue Jeans Cable Coax and RCA patch cables.... definitely a noticeable difference.
   
  I tried some Monoprice cables (had some lying around) and they were worse than the standard cheapies that came with my DAC.
   
  Definitely a nice upgrade!


----------



## Townyj

Checkout Zu Cables... They have Sales on Ebay sometimes and you can pick up a pair for a good price usually.


----------



## [OverDrive]

Bought by few the WireWorld Luna 6. Excellent it details, dynamics and transparency. Paid 44 € for 2 meters length. Recommended.


----------



## Greeni

Morrow audio cables, lots of discussion and testimonial over audiogon


----------



## mohinder

I like Harmonic Tech cables.


----------



## rbf1138

I'm going to be hooking up some Epos speakers to a Peachtree Nova. Would appreciate some help on which kind of speaker wire cables would work in that setup...Do banana plugs work with this equipment, or do I want regular speaker wire? I'm probably going to purchase from Amazon or Monoprice.


----------



## Syan25

TO repeat what others seem to say - I totally agree that Blue Jeans RCA interconnects are awesome. I have them attached to various amps and really enjoy their build and sound.


----------



## Somebody007

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/03/audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-between-monster-cable-and/


 I realize this is a really old thread, but I stumbled onto this seeking clarification about cables so I thought this would be a helpful link for people like myself who stumble onto this thread. nk this just bring at least a decent amount of clarity to this topic. That short article alone wouldn't convince me that cables make little to no difference, but the fact that Uncle Erik says is more than enough for me.


----------



## Lenni

well, at least it's all clear to you now.....good for you!


----------



## Uncle Erik

If you want a sobering test of audiophile equipment, read about the Matrix test (http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm).

Not only did they use a cheap RCA cable, they also used a cheap source and amp.

No one could tell the difference. The cable being the least of this.

It confirms what I've long found to be the case. Cables don't matter at all. Digital sources are all about the same. Amplification matters as much as it is adequate, and what's most important is having a good recording and good speakers/headphones.

I do think you can get different sounds from amps. Tubes introduce some character (often pleasing, and that can be backed with measurements) but aren't necessary for great sound.

I like to see people get great sound and enjoy their music at the lowest possible cost. Thankfully, that can be done for very reasonable prices today. Then there are those who want status symbols. That's OK. Some of the expensive stuff is beautiful and works well. Enjoy it if you can afford it. What I really want to see is high-end audio become more mainstream and popular. Everyone should have great headphones and/or speakers without worrying abou the stuff that doesn't matter.


----------



## Lenni

Personally I would question the validity of this test. For starter who are the people taking the test? Are they audiophiles with high-end systems who have tried different audio components, cables and what not? You cannot ask a bunch of people randomly to take these kinds of tests. You cannot be serious!
   
  the test confirms nothing. zero. it's an utter waste of time. what mostly does it creates misinformation for people like our fellow Somebody007 whose had not much experience with this stuff, and has already come to a (wrong) conclusion about it.
   
  While I share the vision to see high-end audio becoming more mainstream (good luck with that) I'm not sure how's your particular stance gonna help that. personally I disagree about what matters in a system. To me everything matters - everything. I've been enjoying my speakers very much, but since upgrading the dac _and_ the cables I've been enjoying them even more. A _lot_ more. But then, I’m addicted to placebo.


----------



## tmars78

Quote: 





lenni said:


> Personally I would question the validity of this test. For starter who are the people taking the test? Are they audiophiles with high-end systems who have tried different audio components, cables and what not? You cannot ask a bunch of people randomly to take these kinds of tests. You cannot be serious!
> 
> the test confirms nothing. zero. it's an utter waste of time. what mostly does it creates misinformation for people like our fellow Somebody007 whose had not much experience with this stuff, and has already come to a (wrong) conclusion about it.
> 
> While I share the vision to see high-end audio becoming more mainstream (good luck with that) I'm not sure how's your particular stance gonna help that. personally I disagree about what matters in a system. To me everything matters - everything. I've been enjoying my speakers very much, but since upgrading the dac _and_ the cables I've been enjoying them even more. A _lot_ more. But then, I’m addicted to placebo.


 

 Apparently you didn't bother to read the page, and automatically dismissed it. It stated clearly, "The human testers were all trained ears and used to extensively listening to high end equipments, a good number of them participated, each with his own conception of the high end world, some totally subjectivists, some completely objectivists, some in between."


----------



## Lenni

yep you're right I missed that. my bad. but it doesn't change anything. I still don't know who these people really were, or what their experience with high-end audio, and that was just the first thing that I'd question about the validity of this test.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  would I personally come to a final conclusion about amps, source, cables, etc.. because of this one test? I don't think so. but thanks for point that out


----------



## Somebody007

Quote: 





lenni said:


> Personally I would question the validity of this test. For starter who are the people taking the test? Are they audiophiles with high-end systems who have tried different audio components, cables and what not? You cannot ask a bunch of people randomly to take these kinds of tests. You cannot be serious!
> 
> the test confirms nothing. zero. it's an utter waste of time. what mostly does it creates misinformation for people like our fellow Somebody007 whose had not much experience with this stuff, and has already come to a (wrong) conclusion about it.
> 
> While I share the vision to see high-end audio becoming more mainstream (good luck with that) I'm not sure how's your particular stance gonna help that. personally I disagree about what matters in a system. To me everything matters - everything. I've been enjoying my speakers very much, but since upgrading the dac _and_ the cables I've been enjoying them even more. A _lot_ more. But then, I’m addicted to placebo.


 


  All the people in those tests were self-proclaimed audiophiles. Whether or not they are to be trusted as real audiophiles or whether the tests are to be trusted for that matter, I think the conclusion remains the same. Even though on paper all those higher-grade components(cables or other products) are better the difference to the listener is so small that even it's existence is disputed. Whether or not the differences are audible/noticeable. The fact remains that if we can't confirm clear differences consistently between different grades of components then whether they are a worthy investment is understandably questionable.

 I just started buying good audio(what I consider good anyways) components. I now have a little dot mk III with rolled driver tubes, hd 650s and an asus d2x sound card. I was told that that sound card would be a serious bottleneck. Now seeing as my audio memory was for from good enough to the allow conventional testing of doing one setup testing it out and then doing another I bought an input selector(with all gold plated rca connections if that makes it better for that matter lol...). I connected both my sound card(100 euros) and an also new 300euro cd player to the input selector and then little dot and hd650s. I played the same songs with the same bitrates(over 1000 kbps and all MJ songs) at the same time and switched between them. The bass was tighter, but only ever so slightly so on the CD player. That difference was barely noticeable. Another far more noticeable difference was that on the sound card the sound seemed to immerse me more as if my head was in the voice whereas on the CD player the voice seemed to be in front of me. Now personally I preferred the CD-player sound in this aspect, but it was still more a difference than an improvement. I would however never notice this difference if there was a delay between me hearing the different setups even if it was a fairly short one. I only found those differences because I had the input selector. Now keep in mind that that CD-player is 3 times the price of the sound card which was said to be "bottlenecking" and still the difference was tiny.

 My point here is that difference are so tiny and so subtle(to me at least) that I can't imagine things like going from a high quality cable to a higher quality cable would provide a noticeable improvement, especially given the amount of time it takes to switch out the cables. I could be wrong in all this, but despite my lack of experience I must side with uncle erik and the "articles" on this matter. don't get me wrong I love all the stuff I bought and never thought of it as a waste, but I do find some people are bringing their own placebos into other peoples lives too much.


----------



## themusic2

Seems like the thread fizzled out. Here it goes again ... "Best RCA cables for the money" = make your own silver wire interconnects and speaker cables ... laventure (http://www.laventure.net/tourist/cables.htm) You don't have to make them from silver though. You can get 1.2 mm diameter copper by stripping down heavy house wiring (25amp) from hardware store. You'll get quite a few solid Cu wires from every metre of it. Silver does have a slightly lower resistance per metre than copper ... but (oh no, here's the arguments coming up again) I wonder if you can hear it.
  If not into DIY, then one of the earliest posts in this thread ... DNM solid core cable. Been around for ages. The designer is hifi designer of note. Been positively reviewed for ages too. Like all cables it has some reviewers saying there are flaws in highs/soundstage reduction. But as a plunge/experiment for someone wanting to go from standard cable, they are an excellent and reasonable start.
  Re the overall argument about hearing differences in cables ... the best rationale behind this is to consider a simple speaker cross over. If this has been mentioned already in this thread, apologies. But I like the analogy. A speaker cross over is a combination of resistor, capacitor and inductor of different values which alter the signal to allow the bass cone to filter off at its higher frequencies, and the mid/high driver to filter off its low frequencies. Every design of cable has a different resistance, capacitance and inductance. And of course the length multiplies this resistance, capacitance and inductance. So electronically speaking, every cable is adding in a resistor, capacitor and inductor into the stereo equipment chain. IE a cross over which has the potential of altering the highs or lows, or tone in general much like a speaker cross-over. But we are talking about small amounts/effect compared to a cross over. But some people have better hearing than others. And some people just like bragging about their cables. If you are happy and enjoy listening to your system without trying different cables ... go for it. If you enjoy DIY'ing cables or even buying them on eBay/brand new and seeing if it hightens your enjoyment of the music and/or the hobby ... go nuts!


----------



## jibzilla

.


----------



## tybritton5

Let me first say the general tone on this thread has been fairly caustic in many instances, and such a tone I feel is counterproductive to an intelligent conversation about the relative value of cables. This is obviously not a conversation about who is in the right or wrong. I think a bit more respect for other user's opinions would go a long way getting somewhere.
  
 Secondly, information about the components users are testing their cables and therefore basing their opinions on, is sorely missing. I say sorely because I think one's components are absolutely essential to understanding his/her experience with cables. A Cardas Clear cable  compared to a $15 cable running between $300 components will undoubtedly show little/no difference (e.g. "jet fuel in a lawn mower" !). On a much higher end system, perhaps there will be a notable difference.
  
 I realize placebo probably does play a role in one's listening experience, and as long as he/she is comfortable this is not a bad thing. But I also have a hard time believing that there are not tenable benefits to be gained by investing in a more expensive cable for a higher end system; a $1000 cable "gimmick" seems very implausible to me.
  
 On my system (Musical Fidelity A5 CD Player -> Woo WA6 -> Beyer. T1), I have only ever used a $20 cable - a brand name I can't even recall. I am wondering if anyone has a modest-quality system that is similar to mine, and if they have an opinion as to whether spending, say, $300+ on an Audioquest/Cardas/etc. made a notable difference in driving sound quality. Or would it be more worthwhile (i.e. $$while) to upgrade a different part of my setup?
  
  
 I do think there is some truth to what Uncle E was getting at earlier in posting the study, but I also think that, while very interesting, the particular study is dubious because it does not provide much hard data. However, it certainly seems to warrant further investigation (I would love have such a study done on me!)
  
 I appreciate users responses as to what cables they have been satisfied with - it has been helpful for researching.


----------



## tybritton5

> Originally Posted by Jibzilla
> 
> Just purchased a used keces DA 151 mk2 and woo ges off the for sale forums here and wanted to hear some input on rca cables. Looks like this thread died a long time ago but there might be someone else wondering the same thing as I now. After all of the debate I think I'm sticking with a cable co. I'm familiar with and did not see mentioned. Mogami is a name that has been around a while and has a very good reputation for delivering a solid sound for the money. Proaudiola.com will make you a custom mogami cable for pretty much the same price of mogami. I guess they have a hook up or buy in bulk. I lean toward what UE had to say. The problem I have with the cheap monoprice, hosa, belkin, etc... is that the wire's inside are super thin and the shielding and contectors are flimsy and fragile. To me the mogami cables I own are bulletproof and tough and honestly do sound better. I have also tried more expensive cables and not seen much of a difference. To me it's the perfect combination, 5-10 times the price of the cheap cables but you get 5-10 times thicker wires, shielding and neutrik connectors. Any higher in price in my experience your looking at diminishing returns. The 3ft. proaudiola rca cable will run me $40 shipped.


 
  
 Hey I noticed your pics of your components in your profile - are those the components you listen to with the Mogami cable? I agree about diminished returns, and I'm guessing since you didn't spend $1k on a cable that the difference between the $$ you paid for yours and a much more expensive one wasn't worth it to you?
  
 Thanks,
 T.


----------



## a1uc

I use Audioquest Colorado's and Im very happy with them - also Grover Huffman makes good stuff


----------



## tybritton5

a1uc said:


> I use Audioquest Colorado's and Im very happy with them - also Grover Huffman makes good stuff


 
 Yea I was checking out the Colorado's. I have been a bit hesitant on pulling the trigger on Audioquest b/c of some conflicting reviews about Audioquest. From what I've read, people seem to agree that they are built well and sound great, but perhaps overpriced. I don't know if I believe it - the materials used as you move up the product line seem to justify their price in my opinion. 
  
 However after reading about Grover Huffman's cables, they're exactly what I'm looking for. They seem like a fantastic place to start and a very considerable upgrade from what I have now. I will do some "blind testing" on them and my (cheap) current cable and report back what I hear.
  
 Thank you for the great recommendations a1uc.


----------



## JacobLee89

In an act of revival I would like to ask:
  
 1) If I were to DIY, what sort of "cord" would be good? I'm thinking of making two interconnects rather than have one cable that spits to two RCA's on both ends, I like making stuff look cably..
  
 2) I am struggling to see what differences there are between the Blue Jeans Audio Cable, and the Blue Jeans Subwoofer Cable. Can someone explain, or just tell me which ones to get if I were to connect, lets say a Bifrost to a BH Crack?
  
 3) Are there any other *good quality* RCA interconnects in the sub $100 category? The Blue Jeans cables seems to be the most reasonable so far, but for me anything nearing $90 is borderline silly, unless it's a power cable.
  
 Many thanks in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 *edit'ional question* (Sorry I just love puns ok?)
  
 4) Would I need to worry about checking the interconnects for consistency (multimeter stuff I still have yet to learn) if I were to DIY them?


----------



## screwdriver

what about the morrow cables cheapest offering  morrow ma1
 they are $49  but with the coupon they run around $36  for a 1m pair
  
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue67/morrow_audio.htm


----------



## JacobLee89

screwdriver said:


> what about the morrow cables cheapest offering  morrow ma1
> they are $49  but with the coupon they run around $36  for a 1m pair
> 
> http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue67/morrow_audio.htm


 
 Thanks for adding to the list of stuff I could potentially buy !
  
 On a side note, I have some spare Van Damme Pro patch Cable (silver cable, and shielded) sitting around, would that be of reasonable quality to use in RCA interconnects?


----------



## thathertz

In answer to the OP: Nordost Red Dawn IC's. "A veil was lifted from the music and I witnessed a revelatory experience." Maybe not quite but there was a definite difference between the Nordost cables and the Audioquest I had before. It was a positive difference: more detail, tighter bass. Hmmmm...anyway, no one can prove that God doesn't exist. Likewise, you cannot disprove I hear a difference.
  
 Try the Nordost Red Dawn if you get the chance. You might enjoy them. If you do enjoy them or indeed any other cable you try....who can tell you otherwise?


----------



## JacobLee89

I decided to DIY some, knowing that my 100 feet of wire isn't going to be of much use sitting there. The wires were silver plated copper with PTFE (teflon), the 3.5mm connector is a neutrik (forgot which one), and the RCA connectors were "sturdy looking ones" bought from a local electronics store.
  

  
 I'm probably going to spout amateur blabber, but I've learnt the following:
  
 - Teflon is annoyingly difficult to grip. I resorted to wearing latex gloves
 - 4 part braiding is incredibly easy if you get the hang of the "twist and pass" method, and have something to clamp one end of the bundle.
 - *Sleeves and everything else goes in first before soldering*
*- Sleeves and everything else goes in first before soldering*
*- Sl----*
 - It'd probably wouldn't hurt to plan ahead and figure out an order of how to assemble the thing.
 - Don't be too hasty on the shrink wrap/tube, test before committing!
 - Coloured wire would also be easier....
 - A multimeter would have been useful..


----------



## thundernyc

Hi All.
  
 So, I can't afford any of the really high end equipment, but I do know scientific research very well and this discussion is fascinating.
  
 While the listening experience is subjective, whether a particular person can actually tell the difference between cables is not.  It's a yes or no determination.  It would be cool to set up a double blind test with people who feel that they have good ears (not me) and just see.  This would be easy.  Same high end gear, same listening environment, only variable would be the cable.  The listener can't know which cable is being tested at a given moment (blind) and the tester can't know which cable he or she is plugging in for the listener (double blind).  The cables would have to be covered up and labeled "A" and "B" etc., and the order determined randomly or by someone not administering the test in order to avoid any subtle influence.  If enough trials are done, a fast statistical analysis determines if there is a signifiant difference in perception between the cables.  The whole thing would take maybe 30 minutes.
  
 In the end, either a given listener can tell the difference, or they cannot.  There is nothing subjective about the actual test, and the results would be really interesting.  Either a myth disproved or (more interesting) there really is a difference that can be determined by the subjective listener during a non-subjective test.
  
 It would be daring to do...might end this discussion and create an entirely new one.
  
 DK


----------



## parbaked

thundernyc said:


> It would be daring to do...might end this discussion and create an entirely new one.


 
 Nice first post!
 1. DBT Free Forum means NO DOUBLE BLIND TEST. You have revealed nothing new. You should understand the guardrails before posting.
 2. Sorry but you are not going end any discussion or start any interesting ones
 Welcome to Head-Fi.
 Sorry for your wallet...


----------



## thundernyc

My bad - I should have noticed that.  Enjoy your non-intellectual forum.


----------



## JacobLee89

thundernyc said:


> My bad - I should have noticed that.  Enjoy your non-intellectual forum.


 
 I'm very sure that there already has been multiple documented blind testing events by people such as yourself. I believe there may be a mention to it somewhere in this thread.
  
 The revival of this age old discussion is hard to conclude with a binary answer. The variable factors of ear size, frequency sensitivity, age, and even the individual's memory of sounds can affect whether the changes can even be detected or not.
  
 But as far as I'm concerned with "high quality cables", people can save up a good amount by just sourcing the same materials by themselves and making their own. It's more about durability for me.


----------



## Happy Camper

DK,

IMO,
there is a science forum here for just your approach. If people bring in subjective results, prepare to be challenged by the Audio Templars, and there's nothing wrong with that. We have been around long enough to know contentious topics can cause dysfunction. You are new and haven't the experience of the site yet. The gear threads are allowed open discussion of subjective nature because the "no DBT" guidelines offer new members the opportunity to participate without bogging down the flow of discussion with calibration protocol and documentation. Ours is a world wide collection of individuals from all walks of life that share a common passion and are sharing our experiences as we understand them. 

As for intellectuals, I think you'll find our members are heavy into science and engineering professions, college students, industry insiders, designers, audio professionals, geeks, preformers, headphone lifestyle initiates, doctors, lawyers, self made successful business professionals and members that have been in the hobby for decades. We also have young adults learning about the hobby because of the technical development of portable devices. All ambitious types that will learn with robust enthusiasm because audio is their passion. I've found this site to be very intelligent with some impressive industry resources supporting the information offerings. Head Fi is a rather unique community that offers all sides of a topic because of the resources of it's whole, artistic and analytic. We allow anybody to participate with good manners. 


Please enjoy our forums and share your experiences. 

d HC b


----------



## crazychile

I've run into a lot of people on this forum think that all you need is a cheap Monoprice  or equivalent cable.  Or as long as the cable is of quality construction, you won’t be able to hear a difference. I’d like to share my first experience with upscale  cables that happened to me over 20 years ago.
  
In the early 90’s I was working at a small mid-fi audio equipment store in the Midwest. We sold stuff like Yamaha, Adcom, NAD, Sumo, Klipsch, Kef, and Magnepan. At that time your option for speaker wire in the store was Esoteric Audio in 16, 14 or 12 ga. This was essentially the equivalent to Monster Cable from the same era, but it was a little cheaper. If you really wanted to go upscale we’d put some spades or banana plugs on the wire for you.
  
One day the Audio Alchemy rep came in (the days before AA decided to sell direct and screw their dealers who had built their brand to legend status for them), and said he just picked up a new wire line called Audioquest. We didn’t care and didn’t want to hear it. The sample that he had was a flat solid core wire that was the equivalent of about 17ga if I recall. It retailed for about .80/ foot. We decided to hook it up anyway just to make the rep go away and leave us alone. So we picked a NAD system with Magneplanars where the preamp had a mono switch so we could easily compare the L/R channels. One channel had the Audioquest  on it and the other had the 12ga Esoteric.  We expected the Esoteric to annihilate the Audioquest. After all, the Esoteric was a lot bigger and a little more expensive wire.  So we popped in a CD and listened to one channel in mono and then set the balance to the other and went back and forth a few times. The difference was huge. The Esoteric had bigger bass, but it wasn’t very controlled. The Audioquest had very precise bass, but the real difference was on the mids and highs where they opened way up on the Magneplanars.  The difference was not subtle. Everyone heard it. So we bought the line and rewired the whole store with it.
  
There’s a couple of things to keep in mind here:
1.      1.  We didn’t want to hear a difference. So to suggest that we wished any improvement into reality simply isn’t true.
2.      2.  These were both cheap speaker cables on a pretty modest (~$3000) system, and the differences were very obvious.
  
A couple of years later we had a visit from Bill Low, the founder of Audioquest. He did his famous demo for us where he wired up a $200 JVC boombox with Audioquest, popped in a CD and let it roll for 15-30 seconds, and then swapped in the next higher model of cable and repeated the process on the same tune.  Again there were clearly differences as he went from <$1ft cable up to stupid expensive models. Not that anyone would put multi thousand dollar cables on a boombox, but it showed the improvements with each model.
  
So with both of these demos, speaker cables were used. I really believe the differences are more obvious with speaker cables than with interconnects. At least that’s what I heard. And interconnects are hard to compare. So a year or two after that we got a “comparator” device from Wireworld on loan from one of our reps. This made it possible to A/B interconnects without having to power down and rewire a system before trying another cable. Again we heard differences between the models we tested but you had to listen a little longer to get a feel for what the cable sounded like. It wasn’t as easy as when we compared speaker cables.
  
So here’s what I learned from these experiences and 10 years from selling upscale cabling and audio/video equipment:
  
1.      1. Speaker cables sound different. But not all of them. We could clearly hear the difference between a cheap Audioquest and Esoteric cable, but the difference between the Esoteric models, (say, a 16ga vs. 12ga) was pretty subtle if any.
  
2.      2. We could hear a difference in interconnects but sometimes they were subtle when they were comparably priced. A $30 vs. $500 interconnect from the same company was usually a pretty noticeable difference. In a $30 vs. $50 cable, the difference was sometimes harder to detect.
  
3.       3. Keep it real! It doesn’t make much sense to throw a $200 interconnect on a $250 receiver. But a $30 interconnect on the same receiver could be a noticeable improvement over a generic $2.99 cable.  That brings up another issue. The sweet spot for interconnects from these tests were probably $50-$125. Meaning that the most bang for the buck was in this range, especially if the system had more to it than a cheap A/V receiver. Once you got into expensive cables the refinements were smaller. You can probably get more enjoyment for the $ by buying better gear than spending an extra $500 on a cable.
  
4.       4.The differences in digital cables were subtle. Usually we had to compare cheapest to most expensive to hear more noticeable differences. I tend to believe the biggest differences had more to do with quality of the connectors rather than manufacturer Y used PVC insulation vs. Manufacturer X used Teflon.
  
5.       5.Video cables can be some of the easiest to demo. Not everyone listens for the same stuff when music is involved, but in a high resolution video system, it can be easy to show improvements  if the improvements actually exist.  I think true changes become more objective when it comes to video. Not that we can’t argue what looks more correct, but whether  you see the difference or don’t.
  
That was my experience 20+ years ago. I have no idea if those price points still apply. I’m sure there are exceptions to every rule given different companies views on the preferred wire purity and thickness, insulation material, and configuration. The brands we compared were pretty limited, so it’s possible that other manufactures cables could be more or less difficult to discern differences.


----------



## cel4145

Audioquest, though, is pretty pricey for what you get. Whether or not one believes in price/performance value from better cables, there are better _price/construction & material quality values_ than Audioquest and some of the boutique cable manufacturers. My vote echoes others who have said Blue Jean Cable. Whether or not one hears a difference, you certainly get a much better built cable from Blue Jean Cable than Monoprice, and arguably one not as marked up as Audioquest in price.


----------



## Syan25

Blue Jeans are great! I second that. I've bought lots of cables from them both digital and analog and I am extremely pleased with the build quality. I also recommend Forza Audioworks - for well built cables at a reasonable price.


----------



## crazychile

cel4145 said:


> Audioquest, though, is pretty pricey for what you get. Whether or not one believes in price/performance value from better cables, there are better _price/construction & material quality values_ than Audioquest and some of the boutique cable manufacturers. My vote echoes others who have said Blue Jean Cable. Whether or not one hears a difference, you certainly get a much better built cable from Blue Jean Cable than Monoprice, and arguably one not as marked up as Audioquest in price.


 
  
 That very well may be the case. I haven't personally bought any new cables since 1997 that were more than $20 or so. I'm pretty out of touch regarding what's going on now with cable companies. When I sold Audioquest the line was pretty simple. They made 1 line of interconnects. ( Turquoise, Topaz, Ruby, Emerald...etc) and they may have had some stuff for custom home. Now I can't even attempt to keep their product line straight.
  
 I used Audioquest as an example because that's what I dealt with at the time. They weren't necessarily the best then, or now. Just my attempt to sort through what my experiences were at the time.
  
 I don't have any experience with Blue Jeans Cable. Since they deal direct to the public their margins wouldn't have to be as high as a company that goes through a dealer network. They also appear to use a lot of off the shelf Belden and Canare wire which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I've built a lot of cables with Belden wire. Most of the time your main expenses are the connectors, The wire itself is pretty cheap especially if you're buying multiple spools of 500 or 1000 feet at a time. Assembling other peoples cable would also help minimize R&D costs. I like that you can specify custom lengths. I may try a 1ft cable from them. It's hard to find companies that sell less than .5 meter cables.


----------



## Charleston

I think it is blue jeans, either LC-1 or 89259 they made with canare connectors


----------



## Charleston

Fully agree. Just compared AQ diamondback with BJC's LC-1, I heard almost no difference. But when compare with 89259 made by BJC, I prefer 89259, which is more tight and clear, but not as airy as diamondback.


----------



## crazychile

This is slightly off topic, but if anyone hasn't looked into the CAIG cleaning products you should. Using a cleaner and preservative on the cable ends as well as connection jacks on the equipment can make a pretty noticeable improvement. It's cheap too. $30-40 worth of product is enough to clean all your stuff for several years. I use the Deoxit D-5 and the ProGold. The D-5 is also great for noisy old potentiometers. I've used this stuff for 20 years.


----------



## cel4145

crazychile said:


> This is slightly off topic, but if anyone hasn't looked into the CAIG cleaning products you should. Using a cleaner and preservative on the cable ends as well as connection jacks on the equipment can make a pretty noticeable improvement. It's cheap too. $30-40 worth of product is enough to clean all your stuff for several years. I use the Deoxit D-5 and the ProGold. The D-5 is also great for noisy old potentiometers. I've used this stuff for 20 years.




Good idea. A good contact cleaner is worth having around the house for other electronics.


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## BirdManOfCT

I'm in the market for similar thing, any updates?


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## Shaffer

Has anyone tried the Chinese "silver" ribbon cables from ebay? They're ~$20 and sound far better than they have any right to. I wrote about them a while back....


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## Speedskater

The best RCA analog interconnect cable for the money remains the Blue Jeans LC-1 cable.  While a few other cables equal it, none cost less.  As to equaling it Blue Jeans includes instructions on other possible good cables.


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## Shaffer

speedskater said:


> *The best RCA analog interconnect cable for the money remains the Blue Jeans LC-1 cable.*  While a few other cables equal it, none cost less.  As to equaling it Blue Jeans includes instructions on other possible good cables.




Out of sheer curiosity, how do you know it's "the best?"


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## BirdManOfCT

shaffer said:


> Out of sheer curiosity, how do you know it's "the best?"


 

 It's says it on the packaging?


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## Speedskater

While the 'Blue Jeans LC-1 cable' is not the only best interconnect cable, it is:
  
 Easily obtainable
 Budget priced
 Well documented
  
 ***********************************
 If you read the Blue Jeans pages, you will see other options:
 http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/subwoofer/index.htm
 http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/subwoofer/LC1-design-notes.htm
  
 ************************************
 Much of this only matters with longer interconnect cables (over 10 feet)
 ************************************


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## spykez

I just use Mediabrdige and Kabeldirekt. All affordable and I haven't noticed any issues with any of them.


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## upstateguy

You might want to check out the Mogami cables here.


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## Benphysics

First it's RF for radio frequency interference; not FR. secondly, none of the monoprice are any good in the silent parts of audio reproduction due to their very poor rf rejection. I have tried nearly everyone of their supposed premium interconnects. Once I've switched to the more shielded cables (high end double shielded with 100% strand + foil wrapping types) with low inductance and low capacitance, noise floor dropped significantly.


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## arjuna93

JacobLee89 said:


> 3) Are there any other *good quality* RCA interconnects in the sub $100 category? The Blue Jeans cables seems to be the most reasonable so far, but for me anything nearing $90 is borderline silly, unless it's a power cable.



Audio-Technica Art-Link or Rexat.


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