# Official Schiit Vali 2 Thread



## inseconds99

*Schiit Vali 2 Released*
  
  
 From Schiit's website.
  
"*The Most Serious Tube Design—Far Beyond its Price*
Some inexpensive (and not-so-inexpensive) tube amps don’t use tubes to their full potential, “starving” them with low plate voltages or using op-amp buffers for output. Not Vali 2. Vali 2 uses a unique, class-leading power supply that gives us 60V on the plate. Combined with a fully discrete, current-mode noninverting hybrid topology, Vali 2 redefines what you can expect from an affordable tube amp, even at 2x its price. 
 
*Roll Your Own Sound*
Vali 2 is supplied with a single NOS RCA 6BZ7 tube, which can be swapped for the same tubes we use in Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2—feel free to use virtually any ECC88, 6922, 6DJ8, 2492, etc to “roll” the sound to your own preference. Plus, you only need a single tube, so rolling is easy and more affordable!
 
*Serious Power, Gain Switching, Preamp Outputs*
Vali delivers 1W into 32 ohms for hard-to-drive headphones—and, at the same time, offers a low gain mode for low-noise performance with sensitive headphones. You can also use the preamp outputs to add a tube preamp to your power amp or powered monitors. "
  
 http://schiit.com/products/vali-2


----------



## mysticstryk

Looking forward to impressions. Looks like another slick looking piece of good schiit!


----------



## Badfish5446

This update has put the Vali on my radar for a spare room, the ability to use spare 6922's from my Lyr setup is cool, as are the pre-outs and selectable gain.


----------



## fjrabon

> Some inexpensive (and not-so-inexpensive) tube amps don’t use tubes to their full potential, “starving” them with low plate voltages or using op-amp buffers for output. Not Vali 2.


 
 Dang, lol, was that shade they threw at the Starving Student really necessary?


----------



## sling5s

mysticstryk said:


> Looking forward to impressions.


 

 1+
 So this mean you never have to worry about "matched pair" since your only using a singe tube?
 This could make buy tubes so easy and inexpensive.


----------



## mysticstryk

sling5s said:


> 1+
> So this mean you never have to worry about "matched pair" since your only using a singe tube?
> This could make buy tubes so easy and inexpensive.




Garage1217 does the same thing with their amps. Now we've got 2 quality tube amps under $200.

Certainly makes for cheaper tube rolling.


----------



## sling5s

So this also mean no more microphonic and noise on low impedance sensitive headphones? 
 I'm also hoping that it doesn't have that little upper mid edginess. Vali 1 was great for warm or dark headphones but I found it didn't work so well with Grados or headphones with upper mid peaks for that reason.


----------



## mysticstryk

It's always entertaining to read through a new schiit FAQ list.


----------



## fjrabon

sling5s said:


> So this also mean no more microphonic and noise on low impedance sensitive headphones?
> I'm also hoping that it doesn't have that little upper mid edginess. Vali 1 was great for warm or dark headphones but I found it didn't work so well with Grados or headphones with upper mid peaks for that reason.


 

 yeah, I thought it was more or less a worst case pairing the with THX00.  Tubby bass, but also had that upper mids peak edginess too.  Plus no low gain, so bad dampening factor on low ohm headphones.  To me, this is a 1000X better product, at least on paper.


----------



## Badfish5446

sling5s said:


> 1+
> So this mean you never have to worry about "matched pair" since your only using a singe tube?
> This could make buy tubes so easy and inexpensive.


 
 Yeah but using a single tube for both channels could be problematic if the triodes aren't in balance, something to take into consideration.  Schiit's topology may make this a moot point but we won't know until someone more familiar with electrical engineering chimes in


----------



## fjrabon

badfish5446 said:


> Yeah but using a single tube for both channels could be problematic if the triodes aren't in balance, something to take into consideration.  Schiit's topology may make this a moot point but we won't know until someone more familiar with electrical engineering chimes in


 

 Schiit says it's an issue and they have to have a highly internally matched dual triode tube to address this issue.


----------



## inseconds99

fjrabon said:


> yeah, I thought it was more or less a worst case pairing the with THX00.  Tubby bass, but also had that upper mids peak edginess too.  Plus no low gain, so bad dampening factor on low ohm headphones.  To me, this is a 1000X better product, at least on paper.


 
 This could be a very interesting paring with the TH-X00's on low gain, I am curious to hear this amp myself. Might order one for my Christmas gift to myself very soon.


----------



## sling5s

I remember the hype when the Vali just came out: "sounds like a $1600 amp" or "think mini Current Eddie".
 Is the micro dynamics of the Vali 2 still there in spades like the Vali 1 or is it now just a really good $200 amp.
 Impressions...


----------



## mysticstryk

sling5s said:


> I remember the hype when the Vali just came out: "sounds like a $1600 amp" or "think mini Current Eddie".
> Is the micro dynamics of the Vali 2 still there in spades like the Vali 1 or is it now just a really good $200 amp.
> Impressions...




Hype can be a terrible drug...


----------



## Vader2k

fjrabon said:


> yeah, I thought it was more or less a worst case pairing the with THX00.  Tubby bass, but also had that upper mids peak edginess too.  Plus no low gain, so bad dampening factor on low ohm headphones.  To me, this is a 1000X better product, at least on paper.


 
  
 Your impressions on the Vali/TH-X00 pairing made me not even bother to plug the TH-X00 into it and I instead use the Magni.  I always run my K7XX on the Vali, though and really like the tube sound.  The Fidelio X1 is decent off it, though it doesn't do the already loose bass of the X1s any favors.
  
 This looks like it just might solve my problems and allow me to use one affordable tube amp for all my cans!


----------



## Nick-s-f

Argh. Was just about to hit the buy button on the valhalla 2.
  
 Was flipping through the schiit website and randomly the Vali 2 pops up.

 Thought I was seeing schiit :]

 I hate this hobby..so many decisions.


----------



## lvince95

I was already set on buying the magni 2 uber for christmas and then I saw the schiit vali 2 today...
  
 Argh. Gotta wait for impressions dammit


----------



## inseconds99

lvince95 said:


> I was already set on buying the magni 2 uber for christmas and then I saw the schiit vali 2 today...
> 
> Argh. Gotta wait for impressions dammit


 
 Was about to buy a M2/M2 Uber stack, in fact earlier today I was asking about how it sounded compared to my X7 that I currently have. Then I saw the release of this with a gain switch for sensitive headphones such as my  TH-X00's. Now I think I might place an order for the Vali 2 and Modi 2.


----------



## lvince95

inseconds99 said:


> Was about to buy a M2/M2 Uber stack, in fact earlier today I was asking about how it sounded compared to my X7 that I currently have. Then I saw the release of this with a gain switch for sensitive headphones such as my  TH-X00's. Now I think I might place an order for the Vali 2 and Modi 2.


 
 Exactly. The gain switch for low impedance cans was the deal breaker. An affordable tube amp, which can be used for both low and high impedance headphones? For only $20 more than the magni 2 uber? Count me in! But it seems to good to be true... there must be some drawbacks that we do not know of until people test it out.


----------



## notfitforpublic

I really enjoyed the Vali for higher Z phones when I had it. Really musical and sounded fantastic. The v2 looks like it takes care of all the issues people had with the v1 and more. Not gonna bite however, Valhalla 2 replaced the Vali for me. If I was looking, however, don't think I'd hesitate. Nicely done Schiit. Looking forward to some review and impressions!


----------



## YtseJamer

Just pulled the trigger!


----------



## Badfish5446

ytsejamer said:


> Just pulled the trigger!


 
 This type of abusive peer pressure is not appreciated by my wallet


----------



## YtseJamer

badfish5446 said:


> This type of abusive peer pressure is not appreciated by my wallet


 
  
 lol


----------



## fjrabon

The real winners here are the Grado people.  This looks like a just about perfect amp for them.  My previous perfect Grado amp was the Lyr on low gain with tubes, but to be totally honest the Lyr was always a bit overkill, there just wasn't a great low impedance tube amp that matched Grados all that well.  If I was still heavy into Grado, I'd have already ordered this.


----------



## sling5s

from thread: "not a warm amp"
 I guess one could tube roll.
 But I don't like getting a bright and aggressive amp and than tube rolling to compensate. Doesn't make much sense to me.
 I guess I'm out.  All my headphones are on the bright side.


----------



## Badfish5446

sling5s said:


> from thread: "not a warm amp"
> I guess one could tube roll.
> But I don't like getting a bright and aggressive amp and than tube rolling to compensate. Doesn't make much sense to me.
> I guess I'm out.  All my headphones are on the bright side.


 
  
 A cheap "warm" option would be the Amperex Japan (Matsush1ta) 6dj8's... run 30 to 40 bucks... tube monger or tube depot usually have them in stock.  I have a couple sets for my Lyr 1


----------



## sling5s

badfish5446 said:


> A cheap "warm" option would be the Amperex Japan (Matsush1ta) 6dj8's... run 30 to 40 bucks... tube monger or tube depot usually have them in stock.  I have a couple sets for my Lyr 1


 

 Thanks for the suggestion.
 I did the whole tube rolling with Lyr 2 and didn't like it.  Purchased top of the line tubes. 
 I found the Lyr 2 warm and aggressive at the same time. Odd combination. It's warm because of the sub-bass characteristics and yet a little harsh because it's a very forward and aggressive nature.


----------



## Badfish5446

sling5s said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.
> I did the whole tube rolling with Lyr 2 and didn't like it.  Purchased top of the line tubes.
> I found the Lyr 2 warm and aggressive at the same time. Odd combination. It's warm because of the sub-bass characteristics and yet a little harsh because it's a very forward and aggressive nature.


 
 I haven't rolled too much... got lucky with the Phillips MiniWatt SQ 6922's from Tube Depot... love these tubes.... they've gone up $100 a pair since I bought mine so they are now about the same as the vast majority of 60's/70's tubes out of the Amperex Heerlan plant.  They used to be a pretty good "low cost" way of getting some glass from the oh so famous tube manufacturer.  Absolutely dead quiet with a soundstage that rivals anything I've heard.


----------



## FraGGleR

sling5s said:


> from thread: "not a warm amp"
> I guess one could tube roll.
> But I don't like getting a bright and aggressive amp and than tube rolling to compensate. Doesn't make much sense to me.
> I guess I'm out.  All my headphones are on the bright side.


 
 How does it not being warm mean it will be bright and aggressive?


----------



## sling5s

fraggler said:


> How does it not being warm mean it will be bright and aggressive?


 

 Mostly from my experience with Schiit House Sound and Purrin's preference. 
 I hope it's neutral and does not have the upper mid forwardness but my experience with Schiit gear tells me otherwise.


----------



## Robun

nick-s-f said:


> Argh. Was just about to hit the buy button on the valhalla 2.
> 
> Was flipping through the schiit website and randomly the Vali 2 pops up.
> 
> ...


 
 Same exact boat. I want the 650s to shine and I don't know what to do now. Just gonna wait it out and listen to what everyone else thinks.


----------



## betula

I really loved Vali1. It does have unique clarity and space. Although, it felt weak and thin sometimes compared to iFi Micro for example (or other more expensive amps). It wasn't good with bright headphones, but with warmer sounding high impedance headphones it was a wonderful pairing. Even though I have tried and own more expensive and advanced amps now, this Vali2 made me really curious.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

betula said:


> I really loved Vali1. It does have unique clarity and space. Although, it felt weak and thin sometimes compared to iFi Micro for example (or other more expensive amps). It wasn't good with bright headphones, but with warmer sounding high impedance headphones it was a wonderful pairing. Even though I have tried and own more expensive and advanced amps now, this Vali2 made me really curious.


 

  Beautiful description of the synergy between a Vali1 and HD600 / HD650 cans.  I recently went for a Vali beacuse of such praise by so many.  But I do admit to being curious about this new design


----------



## aamefford

Bought one at lunchtime today. Figured it would be fun to try out.


----------



## Aplle

I wonder how this compares with the comparably priced Project Starlight.
  
http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_007.htm


----------



## mysticstryk

aplle said:


> I wonder how this compares with the comparably priced Project Starlight.
> 
> http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_007.htm




Me too. I was looking to buy a garage1217 amp soon, but will wait for some impressions of these.


----------



## Jane Levi

How about: Vali 2 vs Little Dot Mk2 tube amp 149$ or Vali 2 vs Valhalla 2 OTL tube amp 349$ ???


----------



## mysticstryk

jane levi said:


> How about: Vali 2 vs Little Dot Mk2 tube amp 149$ or Vali 2 vs Valhalla 2 OTL tube amp 349$ ???




Vali and Valhalla seem to be designed for different purposes.


----------



## Tuneslover

mysticstryk said:


> Me too. I was looking to buy a garage1217 amp soon, but will wait for some impressions of these.


 
 I was planning on getting a Project Ember (which I realize is a healthy upgrade to the just released Vali 2) this spring.  I contacted Schiit for their comments on the Vali 2 being able to drive HD650's and HE500's.  They replied saying that it has plenty of power to drive both devices.
  
 I have time so I will be interested in peoples impressions between now and the spring to make a decision.


----------



## mysticstryk

tuneslover said:


> I was planning on getting a Project Ember (which I realize is a healthy upgrade to the just released Vali 2) this spring.  I contacted Schiit for their comments on the Vali 2 being able to drive HD650's and HE500's.  They replied saying that it has plenty of power to drive both devices.
> 
> I have time so I will be interested in peoples impressions between now and the spring to make a decision.



I was also considering an Ember. Although if this reviews and pairs well with the hd650, I may get this and get the Project Polaris instead.


----------



## Tuneslover

mysticstryk said:


> I was also considering an Ember. Although if this reviews and pairs well with the hd650, I may get this and get the Project Polaris instead.


 
 Cool.  I already have plenty of solid state headphone amplifiers (Magni, Magni 2U, Lake People G109S, Arcam integrated amplifier, NAD integrated amplifer, Pioneer Home Theater receiver) but am interested in a tube amp.  I don't want to spend a fortune but I want something versatile which is why I was very interested in the Project Ember.  However the Vali 2 has me pretty interested, especially at this price point.  The Vali 2 isn't as powerful or versatile as the Ember (variable output resistance settings), but I will be keeping a close eye on head-fi'ers comments and impressions.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Hm, I have a Vali 1, definitely curious how the 2 differs.


----------



## monkuboy

I have a Vali, which I really like. Recently got a Valhalla 2 which I really like.  And even with these two I'm still planning on buying a Vali 2. I can't resist. But next year... already spent too much money this year.


----------



## jaywillin

aamefford said:


> Bought one at lunchtime today. Figured it would be fun to try out.


 
 i came very close to ordering myself one today too, i'm trying to hold off until after christmas, i'd have to think up a whopper of a lie to be buying something for myself right now ! lol
 can't wait to hear what you think of it


----------



## Pings

I was just about to buy the Magni 2 Uber then I seen this. I have the AKG M220, AKG K553, AKG K7XX, Audio Technica ATH-AD900X. I got the Sennheiser HD 598 SE, and the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250 LE are under the tree x-miss. Should I go with a flat sound signature like the Magni 2 because I have so many headphones or go with the Vali 2? I plan to buy more next year too.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

Hey everyone.Glad to see this thread pop up.I just could not live with the ringing the Vali 1 I had exhibited so it was returned.Pulled the trigger on the Vali 2 last night.Should be here by Thursday.Although the price is quite a bit more than similar competition my feeling is the attention to tube drive voltage & build quality makes it worth the extra $. My HE-400i's can't wait.


----------



## mysticstryk

e8armydiver said:


> Hey everyone.Glad to see this thread pop up.I just could not live with the ringing the Vali 1 I had exhibited so it was returned.Pulled the trigger on the Vali 2 last night.Should be here by Thursday.My HE-400i's can't wait.




I've got the 400i as well, looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## rgmffn

e8armydiver said:


> Hey everyone.Glad to see this thread pop up.I just could not live with the ringing the Vali 1 I had exhibited so it was returned.Pulled the trigger on the Vali 2 last night.Should be here by Thursday.My HE-400i's can't wait.


 

 Great!  Waiting to hear some impressions.
  
 I have the Vali *1* and it is my favorite amp.  That's really all I'll use unless I'm experimenting with something. 
 Actually, I doubt that the 2 could sound any better, but it will be fun to play with.
  
 I'm sure I'll get one of these soon, but I'll hold back as long as I can. lol


----------



## zachawry

This will be able to drive orthos like Alpha Primes, right? 
  
 I am really tempted to buy one to hold me over until I can afford a Mjolnir 2 (or maybe a Woo WA22). But I am wondering how serious of a competition it would be for my Liquid Carbon or Hugo. Don't want to spend the money just to have it sit there.


----------



## Jane Levi

zachawry said:


> This will be able to drive orthos like Alpha Primes, right?
> 
> I am really tempted to buy one to hold me over until I can afford a Mjolnir 2 (or maybe a Woo WA22). But I am wondering how serious of a competition it would be for my Liquid Carbon or Hugo. Don't want to spend the money just to have it sit there.


 

 Your amps are not Tube. So if you want tube, just go with Vali 2.
 You dont have HE6, so dont worry coz on Schiit site wrote:
  
 "*And this thing is powerful enough for inefficient headphones and quiet enough for IEMs, as in, I can use it with pretty much all of my headphones?*
 Yes. Pretty much. It may not be ideal, say, for HiFiMan HE-6s, which are very, very hard to drive. Beyond that, yep, it’s a great little tube amp that you can use with almost anything."


----------



## fjrabon

jane levi said:


> Your amps are not Tube. So if you want tube, just go with Vali 2.
> You dont have HE6, so dont worry coz on Schiit site wrote:
> 
> "*And this thing is powerful enough for inefficient headphones and quiet enough for IEMs, as in, I can use it with pretty much all of my headphones?*
> Yes. Pretty much. It may not be ideal, say, for HiFiMan HE-6s, which are very, very hard to drive. Beyond that, yep, it’s a great little tube amp that you can use with almost anything."


 

 To be fair, almost every amp maker says that all of their amps can drive everything but a HE-6.  It's like you have to put that in there to be able to sell a medium power amp in 2015.


----------



## XERO1




----------



## disastermouse

tuneslover said:


> I was planning on getting a Project Ember (which I realize is a healthy upgrade to the just released Vali 2) this spring.  I contacted Schiit for their comments on the Vali 2 being able to drive HD650's and HE500's.  They replied saying that it has plenty of power to drive both devices.
> 
> I have time so I will be interested in peoples impressions between now and the spring to make a decision.



Wow, those are my two main home headphones. I was worried about whether there was enough power for the HE-500.


----------



## painted klown

I just pulled the trigger on the Vali 2.
  
 I am super stoked, as not only will this be my first piece of Schiit, it will also be my first piece of tube gear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am really excited to hear it. I just bought a pair of Senn HD-650's that I LOVE, so I am hoping it not only pairs well with those, but also my easy to drive 'phones (Grado SR80i, Beats Solo2, Senn HD-598, AT ATH-M50X, etc).
  
 I will be using an Emotiva DC-1 as a DAC in front of it for my head-fi listening and also want to try it as a preamp in my full size system, to see how tubes sound in there. Should be a lot of fun.
  
 Additionally, I posted this next part in the 650 thread, but it's geared more toward those headphones, so I figured I would cross post it here as well.
  
 I stayed up into the wee hours of the morning last night, trying to learn as much about tubes as I could in one night. LOL!
  
 Anyway, it appears to me that all of the tubes that can be used in the Vali 2 seem to be in the same "family" so-to-speak. It also looks like they are considered to be pre-amp tubes (makes perfect sense, given the application) and if I am not mistaken, any tube in this same family can be swapped for any other tube within the family (not sure what the actual term is, but that's how I understand it).
  
 What I mean by this is that when I search on tube sales websites, the tubes listed on the Schiit website (6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 2492) all seem to be pretty much clumped together. This is what lead me to think they are in a family together, and why I concluded that they can all be swapped out for one another. Most websites even have 2 or more of these designations listed for a single tube.
  
 Do I have that correct?


----------



## lvince95

deleted


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

Painted Klown:Yes you are correct BUT ONLY those tubes designated in that family.Other tubes may have similar pin layout but voltages will be different.Congrats on your first tube component.Music will never sound the same.....Schiit says the Vali 2 can use "many other types of tubes",anyone know if 12AX7 will work?


----------



## tommo21

e8armydiver said:


> Painted Klown:Yes you are correct BUT ONLY those tubes designated in that family.Other tubes may have similar pin layout but voltages will be different.Congrats on your first tube component.Music will never sound the same.....Schiit says the Vali 2 can use "many other types of tubes",anyone know if 12AX7 will work?


 
 I have my doubt that 12v tubes like 12au7, 12at7, 5751, ECC82, ECC83 and 12AX7 will work, Think you need to use 6v tubes like 6dj8, ECC88, E88CC and 6922 and others in the same family.
  
 I believe some of the Project/Garage 1217 amps would be a better choice if you want to roll larger variety of tubes.


----------



## KC33

Hi guys, nice to see this thread up and running. I'm just waiting for the holidays to end to order the Vali 2. If someone here is familiar with tubes, do you think the Mullard Amperex 12AU7A ECC82 tube valve Blackburn would be a good fit.?


----------



## Tuneslover

painted klown said:


> I just pulled the trigger on the Vali 2.
> 
> I am super stoked, as not only will this be my first piece of Schiit, it will also be my first piece of tube gear.
> 
> ...




Congrats on getting the Vali 2! I would really love to hear your impressions how it sounds with your HD650's, HD598's and Grado SR80's once you have had adequate time to allow for equipment and brain burn-in.


----------



## Astral Abyss

kc33 said:


> Hi guys, nice to see this thread up and running. I'm just waiting for the holidays to end to order the Vali 2. If someone here is familiar with tubes, do you think the Mullard Amperex 12AU7A ECC82 tube valve Blackburn would be a good fit.?


 
  
 You can't use 12v tubes in the Vali 2, or any other Schiit tube amp.


----------



## Nick-s-f

robun said:


> Same exact boat. I want the 650s to shine and I don't know what to do now. Just gonna wait it out and listen to what everyone else thinks.


 

 I decided on the Valhalla 2, it arrived this morning(express shipping). Its been in use with my HD600 for about an hour.

 I know this is a Vali 2 thread, sorry guys >.<, just wanted to update.

 If you have any curiosities, Robun, feel free to ask.


----------



## painted klown

e8armydiver said:


> Painted Klown:Yes you are correct BUT ONLY those tubes designated in that family.Other tubes may have similar pin layout but voltages will be different.Congrats on your first tube component.Music will never sound the same.....Schiit says the Vali 2 can use "many other types of tubes",anyone know if 12AX7 will work?


 
  
 Thanks! I was hoping that I had somewhat of an idea of what I was talking about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






tommo21 said:


> I have my doubt that 12v tubes like 12au7, 12at7, 5751, ECC82, ECC83 and 12AX7 will work, Think you need to use 6v tubes like 6dj8, ECC88, E88CC and 6922 and others in the same family.
> 
> I believe some of the Project/Garage 1217 amps would be a better choice if you want to roll larger variety of tubes.


 
  
 Thank you for the clarification. This was my thought as well, from the reading I had done, but I am literally just starting to learn about tubes.


tuneslover said:


> Congrats on getting the Vali 2! I would really love to hear your impressions how it sounds with your HD650's, HD598's and Grado SR80's once you have had adequate time to allow for equipment and brain burn-in.


 
 Thanks. I plan to post my thoughts after I have had time to digest the sound of the Vali 2. I like to listen to gear for at least a week, to be sure that I have a decent grasp on it.


----------



## KC33

astral abyss said:


> kc33 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys, nice to see this thread up and running. I'm just waiting for the holidays to end to order the Vali 2. If someone here is familiar with tubes, do you think the Mullard Amperex 12AU7A ECC82 tube valve Blackburn would be a good fit.?
> ...


 
 Thanks for that.


----------



## bboris77

I received mine today in Canada! I loved the original Vali so I was not sure how much improvement to expect. I was simply blown away! First of all, the hiss is completely gone on both the low and high gain modes. I have the AKG Q701, Fostex T50RPmk3 and Grado SR60e and even the Grados are completely hiss-free. On the original Vali, the SR60e had an audible hiss. However, what truly surprised me was how much more black the background was on the Q701 and T50RPmk3. I guess I had gotten used to a very mild hiss on the original Vali even on less sensitive headphones.
  
 As for the sound itself, I do not speak the audiophile lingo yet, so please bear with me. Keep in mind that I am comparing it to the original Vali only since it's the only other proper amp that I own. I would describe the sound on Vali 2 as much more robust in a good way compared to Vali 1. The original Vali had a degree of lushness that was very enticing but it left its imprint on all the music that you would listen to. Vali 2 is more neutral (at least with the stock tubes), but still has a great full sounding tube sound. It definitely sounds more natural and fuller then the original Vali. It also sounds more stable and competent - maybe it has to do with the fact that it has less distortion.
  
 I have not done any scientific testing, but I feel that Vali 2 has a much more well defined and grounded low end. The drums and bass sound spectacular. It pairs extremely well with the T50RPmk3. The Q701 also sounds great. I will test it later with the Grados.
  
 As for the ringing and microphonics, there are none. Does not matter if you plug in the headphones, or flip the low/high gain switch, nothing.
  
 In conclusion, Vali 2 is a big improvement over the original in both the sound and functionality. It is also a great value even taking into consideration how bad the Canadian dollar is right now.
  
 If anyone has any questions, I will be happy to try and answer them.


----------



## poocaso

Thanks for your take on the Vali 2, bboris77! I have the original Vali and am seriously considering the Vali 2, so I'm glad to read your comparison between them.


----------



## zachawry

I have the feeling that if I get the Vali 2, it's going to end up costing me a lot more than $169. I bet it's like a gateway drug for tube amps!


----------



## masterfuu

robun said:


> Same exact boat. I want the 650s to shine and I don't know what to do now. Just gonna wait it out and listen to what everyone else thinks.



Looking forward to hd650+ vali2 impressions.


----------



## Tuneslover

masterfuu said:


> Looking forward to hd650+ vali2 impressions.



+1


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Very curious to try this with the EL-8. I know they don't technically need an amp, but they sing with the Vali 1...


----------



## lvince95

bboris77 said:


> I received mine today in Canada! I loved the original Vali so I was not sure how much improvement to expect. I was simply blown away! First of all, the hiss is completely gone on both the low and high gain modes. I have the AKG Q701, Fostex T50RPmk3 and Grado SR60e and even the Grados are completely hiss-free. On the original Vali, the SR60e had an audible hiss. However, what truly surprised me was how much more black the background was on the Q701 and T50RPmk3. I guess I had gotten used to a very mild hiss on the original Vali even on less sensitive headphones.
> 
> As for the sound itself, I do not speak the audiophile lingo yet, so please bear with me. Keep in mind that I am comparing it to the original Vali only since it's the only other proper amp that I own. I would describe the sound on Vali 2 as much more robust in a good way compared to Vali 1. The original Vali had a degree of lushness that was very enticing but it left its imprint on all the music that you would listen to. Vali 2 is more neutral (at least with the stock tubes), but still has a great full sounding tube sound. It definitely sounds more natural and fuller then the original Vali. It also sounds more stable and competent - maybe it has to do with the fact that it has less distortion.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks very much for your impression!
  
 I have just one question. How would you describe the sound signature? For example, the Modi 2 Uber + Magni 2 Uber is often described as a bright sounding combo. What about the Vali 2? Would you describe the sound as still 'warm and lush', but less than the Vali? Or is it completely different now and it's very neutral or slightly bright?


----------



## bboris77

lvince95 said:


> Thanks very much for your impression!
> 
> I have just one question. How would you describe the sound signature? For example, the Modi 2 Uber + Magni 2 Uber is often described as a bright sounding combo. What about the Vali 2? Would you describe the sound as still 'warm and lush', but less than the Vali? Or is it completely different now and it's very neutral or slightly bright?


 
 I can't compare it to the Magni 2 Uber since I have never heard it in action. I think that the big advantage that the Vali 2 has over the original is that it simply resolves much more detail from the same source material.It is also more neutral overall. The original Vali sounds very syrupy in the treble (and the upper mids) to the point of where one can argue it distorts the original material. It also sounds a bit thinner overall. The Vali 2 is more balanced and sounds very rich in the lows and the mids. Keep in mind, I have done most of my listening with the T50RPmk3 which has a very nice planar bass. I also use the high gain mode on the Vali 2.
  
 In conclusion, I would say that the Vali 2 is a very significant upgrade to the original. I did not expect it would be because I loved the Vali, but the Vali 2 is in a completely different league.


----------



## lvince95

bboris77 said:


> I can't compare it to the Magni 2 Uber since I have never heard it in action. I think that the big advantage that the Vali 2 has over the original is that it simply resolves much more detail from the same source material.It is also more neutral overall. The original Vali sounds very syrupy in the treble (and the upper mids) to the point of where one can argue it distorts the original material. It also sounds a bit thinner overall. The Vali 2 is more balanced and sounds very rich in the lows and the mids. Keep in mind, I have done most of my listening with the T50RPmk3 which has a very nice planar bass. I also use the high gain mode on the Vali 2.
> 
> In conclusion, I would say that the Vali 2 is a very significant upgrade to the original. I did not expect it would be because I loved the Vali, but the Vali 2 is in a completely different league.


 
 Thanks, I think I have a better sense of how the Vali 2 sounds like now.
  
 I will likely be getting this and pairing it with the Fidelio X2. Yes, the X2's are easy to drive, but I feel they come alive when paired with the vali compared to solid state amps like the magni 2  or onboard audio. The Vali enhanced my musical listening experience significantly with the X2. I had slight problems with the Vali, such as the noise floor (drown out once I start playing music though) and also microphonics.
  
 I'm so excited to see that there it only has a 1.2ohm output impedance with the low gain switch. I shouldn't hear any background noise now with my X2 in theory. And the only doubt I have is about the sound signature of the Vali 2. I initially feared it would be even brighter than the magni 2, and it has apparently less or worse bass. I listen to EDM a lot so the low end is important to me, whcih was never a problem with the original Vali.

 It seems that the Vali 2 is even better in the low and mid end based on your experiences. I'm actually really glad to hear this, and I'm now one step closer to pulling the trigger. Once more impressions come in, I'll most likely get them too if they are similar to your impressions.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## volly

lvince95 said:


> Thanks, I think I have a better sense of how the Vali 2 sounds like now.
> 
> I will likely be getting this and pairing it with the Fidelio X2. Yes, the X2's are easy to drive, but I feel they come alive when paired with the vali compared to solid state amps like the magni 2  or onboard audio. The Vali enhanced my musical listening experience significantly with the X2. I had slight problems with the Vali, such as the noise floor (drown out once I start playing music though) and also microphonics.
> 
> ...


 
 I've got my X2's paired with an Asgard 2, which is solid. Should have the Vali 2 at the end of this week but won't be open to Christmas (gasp).
  
 I'm looking forward to the comparison though.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

In all the hub bub with the new cans & the Vali 1 amp I forgot I ordered this about a month ago.It came in last night & I used it about 7 hours.Really nice & musical.Dead quite,really drives the HE-400i's.Swapped out the Chinese 6J1's for a perfectly matched pair of 1953 White Westinghouse 6AK5's, HUGE difference in soundstage & tonal colors.I put it up for sale but as long as I have it I will compare to the Vali 2...


----------



## painted klown

masterfuu said:


> Looking forward to hd650+ vali2 impressions.


 
  
  


tuneslover said:


> +1


 
 I will post my impression as soon as I can. Mine too is a bit of a Christmas present, so I am not 100% sure if my GF will let me play with it until Christmas eve...We'll see. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Has anybody else already started looking at tubes for this thing? I don't even have mine in hand yet, and already I have developed "tube lust" from reading and looking around. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
A Telefunken E88CC / 6922 has got me drooling!!! 






  
 That tube costs as much as this amp does tough, so it may be hard to justify, especially on my budget. However, I am curious to see how well the Vali 2 takes to rolling. From my understanding, there are some pieces that will have dramatically altered sound when rolling tubes (like a completely different amp), while others have just a slight/subtle change from tube rolling.
  
*bboris77: *Thanks for the early review (the 1st for this amp?). Nice comparison to the original Vali as well, I am sure many here were looking for that exact comparison.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

TBH I can't imagine the point of tube-rolling a $160 amp haha. You'd end up spending half that just on a single vintage (if not more), if you're gonna drop that kinda dosh might as well at least snag a Lyr or something.


----------



## painted klown

someguydude said:


> TBH I can't imagine the point of tube-rolling a $160 amp haha. You'd end up spending half that just on a single vintage (if not more), if you're gonna drop that kinda dosh might as well at least snag a Lyr or something.


 
 Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, but still...I'll probably try some lower cost tubes to start with. Not sure about dropping $180+shipping for a single tube, just to see what it's like. LOL!
  
 When reading the reviews for this tube, it seems many users are putting it in a Lyr 2 and loving it. I'm just overly excited to finally get a piece of tube gear.


----------



## Astral Abyss

I wouldn't base the price of the amp on how much I was willing to spend on tubes.  For one, tubes are transitive, they can move beyond your current amp and take that sound you love with you to another tube amp and last you for a long time.  (Assuming you don't end up wearing them out)  They can transform something pedestrian into something extraordinary.  It's fun to do and fun to collect, as long as you don't get carried away.  You can always sell or trade them with other people with different tastes than yours if you don't like the ones you have.  
  
 I have a Vali 1 and and Lyr 2.  I love the tube sound and I love collecting tubes.  I don't have a huge collection, but the ones I do have are easily worth over the price of both amps combined.  BUT... You don't have to spend a fortune either to get a nice collection of different sounding tubes.  There's still inexpensive NOS tubes out there, as well as current and reproduction tubes that sound pretty good.  Some of my cheapest purchases have the most fun sounds (my 1970s Amperex A-Frame 6DJ8 Orange Globes come to mind, as do my 70s Sylvania JAN 6922s as well, or pick up some cheap Russian Voskhod Rockets from @rb2013)
  
 What you'll eventually find is a few tubes that you like best, and the rest just kind of sit around.  That's when you sell off the ones you don't like to either try some new ones or put some cash back in your pocket for other things you want.
  
 Some people will tell you to just go for the expensive tubes first or you'll just waste a lot of time and money and end up there anyway.  Well, that's like skipping the whole story and just reading the last page.  It's how I got to where I'm at that gives me enjoyment.  And how would I even appreciate an "end game" tube if I haven't tried anything else?
  
 And if you don't remember anything else, remember this: do some research first before buying any NOS tubes.  I wasted some money on junk a couple times on ebay when I was getting started because I thought I knew what I was doing, but I really didn't.  Doing the research is half the fun of collecting and doesn't cost a thing.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

> Some people will tell you to just go for the expensive tubes first or you'll just waste a lot of time and money and end up there anyway.  Well, that's like skipping the whole story and just reading the last page.  It's how I got to where I'm at that gives me enjoyment.  And how would I even appreciate an "end game" tube if I haven't tried anything else?


 
  
 I dunno, I find this dubious. The goal of buying this stuff is to get what you like. The goal of a story isn't the last page, it's the entire thing. You might as well tell someone not to buy good headphones but instead amass everything they can find. Tell them to buy dozens and dozens of amps before buying that "end game" one.
  
 What gives me enjoyment is hearing music, not listening to tubes. The tubes/headphones/amps/etc are just a way to get music into my earholes. I won't appreciate the music any more just because I bought fifty things before my current setup as opposed to two. If anything, all that did was get in the way of me hearing my music the way I want to, hours and hours spent with gear that's not what I'm looking for.
  
 If your journey through audiophilia is about listening to and appreciating the hardware, then I can agree. You're sampling all the various wares and hearing as many different setups as you can. If your journey is like mine, that what we purchase is merely a conduit to get music into our ears, then it absolutely is a waste of time and money to do anything but gun straight for what you believe will meet your desires.


----------



## lvince95

someguydude said:


> I dunno, I find this dubious. The goal of buying this stuff is to get what you like. The goal of a story isn't the last page, it's the entire thing. You might as well tell someone not to buy good headphones but instead amass everything they can find. Tell them to buy dozens and dozens of amps before buying that "end game" one.
> 
> What gives me enjoyment is hearing music, not listening to tubes. The tubes/headphones/amps/etc are just a way to get music into my earholes. I won't appreciate the music any more just because I bought fifty things before my current setup as opposed to two. If anything, all that did was get in the way of me hearing my music the way I want to, hours and hours spent with gear that's not what I'm looking for.
> 
> If your journey through audiophilia is about listening to and appreciating the hardware, then I can agree. You're sampling all the various wares and hearing as many different setups as you can. If your journey is like mine, that what we purchase is merely a conduit to get music into our ears, then it absolutely is a waste of time and money to do anything but gun straight for what you believe will meet your desires.


 
 Unless a person has disposable income, I totally agree with you.
  
 So far, it's been hard to find affordable dac/amps that can power low impedance headphones and IEMs well with a neutral to warm sound signature. Most of the affordable ones (M/M 2U, O2+ODAC, Aune X1S, etc.) are supposed to be neutral, but almost all of them actually make the sound brighter than what it is.
  
 The Vali was  something I eyed, but the high output impedance did not work out for me. And with the Vali 2, it seems like I can tune the ound to get 'what I like' without breaking the bank. I definitely won't tube roll with a telefunken etc. Just cheaper tubes like matsu****a, or the current production 6922s. I've already done my research, and can't wait to hear some more impressions!
  
 EDIT: matsu-shi-ta


----------



## Astral Abyss

someguydude said:


> I dunno, I find this dubious. The goal of buying this stuff is to get what you like. The goal of a story isn't the last page, it's the entire thing. You might as well tell someone not to buy good headphones but instead amass everything they can find. Tell them to buy dozens and dozens of amps before buying that "end game" one.


 
  
 Most people do amass a bunch of headphones, so nothing needs to be said there.  I was suggesting buying tubes as a cheaper alternative to buying a new amp or dac to get a different sound. You can go straight to the "end game" tubes and still not find what you like and end up wasting a ton of money.  Or you can leave the stock tube in there and just enjoy what you have.  Some do, some don't.  I was merely offering a path to folks who might want to try some different tubes and not have an idea where to start or where they might end up.
  
 Your enjoyment isn't my enjoyment.  I like collecting tubes and so do a lot of other people, just as much as I like listening to my music.  To some of us, collecting and finding something new is more fun than "end game".  It seems presumptuous to claim its all about the music while arguing semantics on an audiophile website in the equipment forums.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

astral abyss said:


> Most people do amass a bunch of headphones, so nothing needs to be said there.  I was suggesting buying tubes as a cheaper alternative to buying a new amp or dac to get a different sound. You can go straight to the "end game" tubes and still not find what you like and end up wasting a ton of money.  Or you can leave the stock tube in there and just enjoy what you have.  Some do, some don't.  I was merely offering a path to folks who might want to try some different tubes and not have an idea where to start or where they might end up.
> 
> Your enjoyment isn't my enjoyment.  I like collecting tubes and so do a lot of other people, just as much as I like listening to my music.  To some of us, collecting and finding something new is more fun than "end game".  It seems presumptuous to claim its all about the music while arguing semantics on an audiophile website in the equipment forums.


 
  
 I didn't say that even remotely. I said there are different ways to do it and you were the one saying that someone "should" do it your way. The "journey" isn't the fun part for everyone, it's not like "skipping to the end of the book" for all of us.
  
 Think of it like a vacation. Some people love the road trip and they'll happily pile in the car and drive for four days cross country, enjoying the sights en route. Some buy a plane ticket because they want as much time on the beach as possible. Same principle. Neither is wrong.
  
 Also, protip: if you don't like them, they're not "end game". That's... kinda not how that phrase works.


----------



## Makiah S

fjrabon said:


> Dang, lol, was that shade they threw at the Starving Student really necessary?


 
 hehe, I can happily say I owned a Millet Starving Student design! An my First Vali sounded better than it did, but it was a LOT of fun to own an roll tubes into 
  


mysticstryk said:


> Garage1217 does the same thing with their amps. Now we've got 2 quality tube amps under $200.
> 
> Certainly makes for cheaper tube rolling.


 
 Yeap, an I'm going to be comparing BOTH of them here in the next few days. I was able to grab a Demo from Both Schiit an Garage 1217! I'm looking forward to seeing how they differ my self!


----------



## Deftone

Im going to make a caomparison with the Vali 1 and then again for the Vali 2 without tube roll and then with (genalex gold lion)


----------



## Makiah S

deftone said:


> Im going to make a caomparison with the Vali 1 and then again for the Vali 2 without tube roll and then with (genalex gold lion)


 
 A Vali 1 vs vali1 would also be very cool, looking forward to it


----------



## SomeGuyDude

If anyone wants to donate a Vali 2 I'll happily give A/B impressions with EL-8's. XD
  
 Just don't got the cash lately. But maaaaaan.


----------



## Tuneslover

Interesting views and comments regarding tube amps and tube rolling (not to mention tube costs).  I have never owned any tube equipment (or really listened to any for that matter) but have always been curious and interested about introducing one to my audio collection.  The only thing that has held me back from purchasing one is the whole tube rolling "rabbit hole".  I really don't want to spend tons of money in search of the "right" tube.  Instead, I would like to think the stock tube that the amp comes with should be a satisfying representation of how the amp designer intended the unit to sound.  That being the case, I ask myself why roll tubes at all?  Maybe I'm stuck in a SS mentality, I don't know.  Granted, a tube amp DOES give one the option to experiment with "adjusting" the amps sound where that flexibility doesn't really exist with a SS amp.
  
 In any event, the reasonably priced Vali2 has me intrigued.  But first I would like to hear Vali2 owners views and thoughts once they have had enough time with their units.


----------



## Astral Abyss

tuneslover said:


> Interesting views and comments regarding tube amps and tube rolling (not to mention tube costs).  I have never owned any tube equipment (or really listened to any for that matter) but have always been curious and interested about introducing one to my audio collection.  The only thing that has held me back from purchasing one is the whole tube rolling "rabbit hole".  I really don't want to spend tons of money in search of the "right" tube.  Instead, I would like to think the stock tube that the amp comes with should be a satisfying representation of how the amp designer intended the unit to sound.  That being the case, I ask myself why roll tubes at all?  Maybe I'm stuck in a SS mentality, I don't know.  Granted, a tube amp DOES give one the option to experiment with "adjusting" the amps sound where that flexibility doesn't really exist with a SS amp.
> 
> In any event, the reasonably priced Vali2 has me intrigued.  But first I would like to hear Vali2 owners views and thoughts once they have had enough time with their units.


 
  
 The stock 6BZ7 tube that the Vali 2 comes with is a good, fun tube.  It has a satisfying tube sound.  I would imagine that the reason they use that tube is that it's an easy to find NOS tube that doesn't cost much.  You can pick them up on ebay for $5-10, sometimes less as a quad.  Since Schiit needs access to a reliable source of 100s of the same tube and want to keep the costs of the amp down, that's a good way to do it.  They use the same stock tubes in the Lyr and Gungnir.


----------



## sheldaze

someguydude said:


> If anyone wants to donate a Vali 2 I'll happily give A/B impressions with EL-8's. XD
> 
> Just don't got the cash lately. But maaaaaan.


 

 I've heard the EL-8 is greatly assisted by tubes, so that will be one of the first headphones I try tomorrow (assuming Vali 2 arrives per USPS projected schedule).


----------



## lvince95

Looking forward to your impressions! I'm either gonna blow my cash on a Modi2U/Vali2 stack, or wait for the next Grace m9xx drop depending on how impressions go. For my low impedance cans I'm looking for a neutral-warm sound signature that is detailed but also doesn't sacrifice the bass (I listen to EDM only), but unfortunately there are not many within my budget based on what I've read (~$400-500 total for new DAC+AMP). Most SS amps seem to be neutral-bright and lean on the bass like the Modi/Magni2U or Aune X1s. On the other hand, most tube amps won't go well with the low impedance cans I have (Philips X2, Fostex TH-X00 etc).
  
 The Grace m9xx is appealing for sure, but I've read that some are disappointed with the bass extension. Wondering if the Vali 2 will deliver, without overpriced tubes.


----------



## sheldaze

lvince95 said:


> The Grace m9xx is appealing for sure, but I've read that some are disappointed with the bass extension. Wondering if the Vali 2 will deliver, without overpriced tubes.


 
 m9xx is lean - intentionally so. It is not under-powered (IMHO), however when listening to it at a mini-meet this past weekend, people preferred the bass on Meier Audio Corda Rock.
  
 At the meet, I fed the Corda Rock input from my m9xx. And I'll be using m9xx the same as the DAC for my Vali 2, to see if I get similar or even more warmth from the tubes.


----------



## Makiah S

lvince95 said:


> Looking forward to your impressions! I'm either gonna blow my cash on a Modi2U/Vali2 stack, or wait for the next Grace m9xx drop depending on how impressions go. For my low impedance cans I'm looking for a neutral-warm sound signature that is detailed but also doesn't sacrifice the bass (I listen to EDM only), but unfortunately there are not many within my budget based on what I've read (~$400-500 total for new DAC+AMP). Most SS amps seem to be neutral-bright and lean on the bass like the Modi/Magni2U or Aune X1s. On the other hand, most tube amps won't go well with the low impedance cans I have (Philips X2, Fostex TH-X00 etc).
> 
> The Grace m9xx is appealing for sure, but I've read that some are disappointed with the bass extension. Wondering if the Vali 2 will deliver, without overpriced tubes.


 
 The old Magni Vali 1/1 combo was great for like $250ish dollars [with shipping] with the Magni 2 an Vali 2 at around $350 ish [with shipping] it'll be nice to see what the newer generation brings  
  


sheldaze said:


> m9xx is lean - intentionally so. It is not under-powered (IMHO), however when listening to it at a mini-meet this past weekend, people preferred the bass on Meier Audio Corda Rock.
> 
> At the meet, I fed the Corda Rock input from my m9xx. And I'll be using m9xx the same as the DAC for my Vali 2, to see if I get similar or even more warmth from the tubes.


 
 Nice I'll be looking to hear your impressions!


----------



## lvince95

sheldaze said:


> m9xx is lean - intentionally so. It is not under-powered (IMHO), however when listening to it at a mini-meet this past weekend, people preferred the bass on Meier Audio Corda Rock.
> 
> At the meet, I fed the Corda Rock input from my m9xx. And I'll be using m9xx the same as the DAC for my Vali 2, to see if I get similar or even more warmth from the tubes.


 
 Looking forward to it! I'll be researching about the corda rock in the meantime, thanks for widening my options.
  
 Quote:


mshenay said:


> The old Magni Vali 1/1 combo was great for like $250ish dollars [with shipping] with the Magni 2 an Vali 2 at around $350 ish [with shipping] it'll be nice to see what the newer generation brings


 
 Yup, they are a great deal for sure! But the Vali 1 was too noisy when I tried it with my cans, and magni 2 Uber was too bright for my preferences. I'm mainly looking for an amp that is more neutral-warmish and good bass without breaking the bank. The Vali 2 might just be ideal for me.


----------



## Makiah S

lvince95 said:


> Yup, they are a great deal for sure! But the Vali 1 was too noisy when I tried it with my cans, and magni 2 Uber was too bright for my preferences. I'm mainly looking for an amp that is more neutral-warmish and good bass without breaking the bank. The Vali 2 might just be ideal for me.


 
 yea the Vali 1 was finnicky, anything that was 250 ohms or higher sounded nice with it, assuming you didn't bump into it. 
  
 The 2 is speced for a wider range of headphones


----------



## painted klown

Vali 2 has arrived!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I took some quick pics and am now listening.


----------



## lvince95

painted klown said:


> Vali 2 has arrived!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow that wallwart is huge


----------



## Makiah S

painted klown said:


> Vali 2 has arrived!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 awwwwwwwww snap


----------



## disastermouse

mshenay said:


> awwwwwwwww snap


 

 But....
 What.does.it.sound.like??


----------



## lvince95

disastermouse said:


> But....
> What.does.it.sound.like??


 

 Give him time to listen and to properly formulate a response!


----------



## painted klown

Hey all, I wanted to post a pic of the Vali 2 in action with my Sennheiser HD-650.
  
  

  
 Ok, some quick initial thoughts, as I listen to NIrvana "Nevermind" (MFSL CD pressing ripped to ALAC)
  
 I am running Foobar2k, wasapi out USB (generic cable) to an Emotiva DC-1 (DAC), then from the DC-1 line out I am using Monoprice RCA cables to the Vali 2. Senn HD-650 is hooked up via the stock cable.
  
 First thing I noticed, and something I must mention, is that I am pleasantly surprised with the build quality of the Vali 2. Everything seems super solid on it. No wobbling knobs, weak feeling RCA jacks, etc. Only the headphone input has a slight bit of wiggle. Expected at this price point, however, so no complaints.
  
 There are no tracking issues, noise, scratches, or odd sounds when turning the volume pot. The only thing is that it's not 100% "squared up", so it's a little off kilter when turned. Same with the headphone out jack. It sits in the Vali at a slight angle, but nothing that's a deal breaker for the price paid.
  
 I am not sure what I was expecting, but I assumed from reading around that there would have been for fit & finish issues. Other than the two off kilter items mentioned, there is nothing at all that would cause my OCD audiophile nervosa to flare up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Before moving on, I want to mention the weight. Due to the small size of the amp, I was a bit worried about the amp being easily slid around my desk by the cabling dangling from it. It is heavier than I expected, but not heavy enough to belie its size. However, with the feet attached, this amp has a very solid footing on my desk that would take a fairly hefty tug to cause it to move (such as plugging/unpluggging headphones).
  
 Upon opening the box, I was a bit surprised to see that the tube was not installed. I guess I should have known better, but that meant I immediately HAD to learn how to install a tube!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The tube itself is smaller and MUCH lighter than I imagined it would be. I guess, in my mind, I imagined tubes to weigh more. Light as a feather, darn near as light as the bubble wrap & box it came in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, and I feel I must make note of this, the tube looks old and dirty IMO. I am sure it's NOS as Schiit states, but it looks used to me. Perhaps all NOS tubes look that way, I have no clue...
  
 Anyway, back to my tube installation. Happily, the design of the pins on the tube do not allow you to incorrectly insert it, so that was a definite plus for me. On the downside, I was not sure how hard I could push down on the tube without accidentally damaging it or my new amp. I pushed down very slowly, and just a hair at a time. To tell you the truth, I am not 100% sure I have it seated in there as far as it should be, but when I nervously fired it up, it came right on and started glowing with no issue. For now, I think I will leave it alone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I will do another post for initial listening impressions...getting tired of typing and want to listen more attentively now that it should be warmed up.
  
 More to come...


----------



## Deftone

if i remember correctly your vali 2 should have already been burned in for a couple days.


----------



## Makiah S

Oh nice, good to see a picture of it!
  
 An with regards to everything not being 100% squared, I can't remember what the vali was like


----------



## Billheiser

painted klown said:


> Hey all, I wanted to post a pic of the Vali 2 in action with my Sennheiser HD-650.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Tubes are meant to be firmly seated. So push pretty hard. They have survived for a long time with Russian mechanics whacking them into spaceships.


----------



## bretemm

Have you listened to the Valhalla2? When you post more details, are you able to compare to that? 

Thanks 





painted klown said:


> Hey all, I wanted to post a pic of the Vali 2 in action with my Sennheiser HD-650.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## FraGGleR

sling5s said:


> from thread: "not a warm amp"
> I guess one could tube roll.
> But I don't like getting a bright and aggressive amp and than tube rolling to compensate. Doesn't make much sense to me.
> I guess I'm out.  All my headphones are on the bright side.


 
 Got mine today.  I would not call it a bright and aggressive amp.  Clean and clear comes to mind.  I am using the HD650s and the GOV2 Infinity, which is apparently a touch warmer than neutral.


----------



## Tuneslover

painted klown said:


> Hey all, I wanted to post a pic of the Vali 2 in action with my Sennheiser HD-650.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cool pics!

I know what you mean by things being a little off. The volume knob on my SYS and Magni2U were slightly off too. I just gently urged the knob over to center it properly. That worked nicely and looked just fine thereafter.


----------



## painted klown

Ok, now for some initial listening impressions (as I know that's what all of you really want to read anyway) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 When I first plugged it in, I didn't know what to expect, and was a bit taken aback at how much different it sounded from my Emotiva DC-1's headphone amp. It was immediately a very noticeable change. As noted, I played Nirvana's "Nevermind" (at varying volume levels) all the way through to, to give the amp a bit to warm up.
  
 I then started flipping through some of my favorite test tracks, to see what I would hear. It was sounding like it did with Nevermind. Offering up a sound that was not offensive and pretty good, but it wasn't "blowing me away" either. I then decided to test it out with some easy to drive headphones, and snagged my ATX-M50X and Grado SR80i off my headphone hook. Here's when something happened...I stood up and realized that I had forgot all about this amp having a selectable gain switch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Anyway, I was still curious to see how well it did with easy to drive cans, and hooked them up for very brief listens. The ATH-M50X was the first I tried. Holy mother of pearl inlays!!!! Let me just say musical, VERY musical in fact. I immediately found myself sucked into the playing Alice in Chains and had a difficult time unplugging to try the Grados. LOL! The Grados have a bit of a bright sound signature to me. In fact, I have never liked them on any of my portable devices, but enjoyed them quite a bit on the DC-1's headphone amp.  Through the Vali 2, that enjoyable Grado sound continued and didn't leave me wincing or cringing, even at high volume levels. Nice!
  
 While I had low impedance cans in mind, I decided to do a bit of a quick noise test. I plugged in my Skullcandy earbuds and paused the music. I cranked the Volume of the Vali 2 in low gain mode and listened for noise. If there was any noise there, it was below the threshold of my ears, and/or quieter than the noise floor was here in my living room. As quiet as anyone could wish for. Leaving the earbuds in, I flipped to high gain and cranked the volume again. This time there was an audible hiss, but it was still quieter than my DC-1 (a SS amp). Very respectable, to say the least and MUCH quieter than I had expected for tubes. Plugging the 650 back in and doing the same test on high gain revealed NO noise that I could detect. This amp is quiet. Quieter than my DC-1, or any of my portable sources, to be sure.
  
 With the amp left in high gain mode, and the 650 still on my ears, I decided to do more listening with some favorite test tracks. NOW we are singing! The gain switch not only seemed to make the amp go louder, it also seemed to help fill in the sound and to a VERY noticeable degree. If you had read any of my posts in the 650 impressions thread, you will note that I had mentioned the bass not being as full and robust as I had expected it. The posters in that thread said it was because the 650s needs an amp that pushes current to them, in order to really open them up. Well the Vali 2 (in high gain mode) must be pushing some serious current then! LOL! I have never heard my 650s sound this good. Period. I mean this amp is blowing my mind!
  
 The Vali 2 pushing the 650's is darn near a revelation to my ears. The 650 has BASS!!! And when I say that, I mean real bass. Not bloated sounding/takes everything over type of bass, but actual musical bass. It's more present and deeper than my DC-1's bass, but admittedly, it isn't as delineated as the solid state bass that I am used to from the DC-1. Weather this is a product of tubes in general, the installed stock tube, or the just the way the Vali 2 sounds, I am not sure. Having said that, the sound of the bass from the Vali 2 has a "fun factor" that just isn't present with the DC-1. It's "wow'ing" me, to be sure.
  
 Next I will move on to mids. The mids, as I expected from tubes, are excellent. Even the low cost stock tubes do just fine at making Norah Jones sing in my ears. The Vali 2 has a nice way of enveloping you in the music (a great quality of the 650 in general IMO), making you turn it up and "feeling it" for a bit. Playing Jack Johnson for some male vocal is equally nice, and better than on my DC-1. Sleep Through the Static has a production that I simply love. It sounds intimate, and a bit warm (bit of a bass hump) on just about any gear that can reproduce it well. When his vocal track comes in on the opening track, it is a wonderful experience with the right setup, and I often use this track to see if gear can accurately reproduce not only the timbre of his voice, but the emotion that comes pouring out at the same time. To me, the Vali 2 excels in this area, and is a clear and definite improvement over my DC-1 for this particular moment, as well as the rest of the record as I let it play. Beautiful!
  
 Now for the highs...the highs on this amp are very nice indeed, I have always been under the (false) impression that tubes rolled off the highs. With the stock tube in the Vali 2, I do not find this to be true at all. The highs are all nicely present and command their own space in the sonic soundscape, while never drawing undo attention to themselves by becoming bright or fatiguing in any way. This is also a strong point of the 650, so further listening with other 'phones may reveal more to me, but for the purposes of this write up, I am using the 650 exclusively.
  
 Ok, now for some general thoughts on the amp. This thing has power. It has insane power for the headphones I own, in fact. Once I had it in high gain mode, the 650s really opened up. I turn the volume to PAINFUL levels without a hint of harshness, sibilance, or distortion. What I mean to say is that his amp can go VERY loud without breaking a sweat. Turning the volume knob gave me more volume than I could handle (I couldn't turn it all the way up in high gain mode as my pain threshold was hit too soon) and sounded great while doing it. Loud, clean, and clear, to be sure. It reminded me of my full size system in that respect, and I was shocked at what this little amp was capable of. It always sounded nice and relaxed, no sounds of the amp straining at all. I haven't heard that outside of my full size system, ever!
  
 Seriously, I am in shock over here all. I honestly do not know what to say. I have never heard any tube gear prior to this, nor had I heard any Schiit product, however I must say that the Vali 2 has FAR surpassed the high expectations I had for it when I ordered it up. Simply put, this amp is killer, and at the price point Schiit has it at, it's also a steal!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 All of this was IMO, and to my ears only. Bear in mind that I am a relative noob to headphone audio, and a complete noob to tubes and Schiit gear. I hope this review helps anyone that reads it.
  
 Thanks,
  
 -Dave


----------



## painted klown

disastermouse said:


> But....
> What.does.it.sound.like??


 
  
 Initial impressions have been posted.


billheiser said:


> Tubes are meant to be firmly seated. So push pretty hard. They have survived for a long time with Russian mechanics whacking them into spaceships.


 
 Thanks for the info. I will try to push them in a bit more tomorrow after work.
  


bretemm said:


> Have you listened to the Valhalla2? When you post more details, are you able to compare to that?
> 
> Thanks


 
 I have not heard the Valhalla 2, nor any other tube gear, sorry.


----------



## Deftone

Nice to know your enjoying it dave, from my experiences tubes sound fantastic with rock/metal it really gives guitars that edge you cant get with solid state.


----------



## bretemm

Ok thanks, if I get it, I might get the modi2 Uber, but, I think I'll first just use the Vali2 input with my fiio headphone line out. I'm looking for a smaller more, I guess simple, setup. I have the Schiit Bifrost DS and Valhalla2. 





painted klown said:


> Initial impressions have been posted.
> Thanks for the info. I will try to push them in a bit more tomorrow after work.
> 
> I have not heard the Valhalla 2, nor any other tube gear, sorry.


----------



## Makiah S

deftone said:


> Nice to know your enjoying it dave, from my experiences tubes sound fantastic with rock/metal it really gives guitars that edge you cant get with solid state.


 
 Like wise! I enjoyed the first Vali very much with my higher ohm'd cans, I'm REALLY excited to hear the W1000X with it though  it does well with tubes but is VERY sensitive so if there's noise I'll find it ;3


----------



## disastermouse

Has anyone tried these with HE-500 yet? I'm wondering if the tubes would make them just a bit more intimate sounding.


----------



## Makiah S

disastermouse said:


> Has anyone tried these with HE-500 yet? I'm wondering if the tubes would make them just a bit more intimate sounding.


 
 Well, I'll give it a shot with my HE 4, if it drives that it'll do the HE 500 no problem


----------



## sheldaze

Postman delivered mine early too...I think I'm enjoying toys too much these days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I did not plan to listen today - worked late and stayed out late, expecting to take off and play with this tomorrow. It's warming up the sound nicely on my AKG K7XX right now, fed from m9XX DAC. Really good, but will listen and post tomorrow.


----------



## lvince95

painted klown said:


> Ok, now for some initial listening impressions (as I know that's what all of you really want to read anyway)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Very nice write-up, appreciate it alot. Thanks man!


----------



## Capt369

I already have the Asgard 2 and love it, but... well... you... know.


----------



## sheldaze

Did the pots get better?
  
 My previous experiences with the volume knobs on the smaller Schiit devices (Magni 2, Vali) was not as satisfying as this is! Small incremental volume adjustments are doing exactly what I would expect. This truly feels like a better box than the previous generation. I've not had much chance to play with Magni 2 Uber and am curious if this is the same pot.
  
 ::
  
 Compared with my previous Vali, the version 2 has much, much more detail and articulation. The first generation seemed more laid back and smoothed over to my ears. Details are sharp, clear, located precisely with Vali 2. This does not take a back seat to my solid-state stable of amplifiers in that regard.
  
 I'm running through a few of my low-impedance cans this morning:
  

Audeze EL-8C
Fostex TH-X00
Grado SR60i
  
 I've listened in past to tubes, through my Vali and Valhalla, but I am new to the experience of listening to a tube through low impedance headphones. There are no noise or impedance mismatch issues, as there were with my two previous tube amps. But I'm still finding the adjustments - well, interesting. My favorite match, when I had the Vali, was with my (now also sold) AKG Q701. And as I posted yesterday, my (current) AKG K7XX and the Vali 2 are just a match made from the great hall of "Valhalla" - really good stuff!
  
 With each of the low impedance cans, I can hear the change, going from just m9XX as AMP/DAC to m9xx (DAC) > Vali 2 (AMP). The difference is more subtle on the three cans listed, and not always my personal preferred direction. TH-X00 was already a warm sounding headphone, and needs no further tube distortion to sound its best - it sounds good as-is from pretty much any low impedance solid state source. But I must reiterate I noticed no bloat issues from an impedance mismatch - I just personally like how it sounds already on a plain solid state. I bought my EL-8C mostly for comfort in a closed headphone, and I'm a much less partial to its forward treble. I prefer its sound with my slightly warmer systems - Mojo for example. The Vali 2 is not adding or taking away from any specific frequency. The Grado paired with the Vali 2 is a definite yes! This is a pairing I could not have heard before, and it is quite nice.
  
 I guess what I'm trying to summarize for you is the Vali 2 imparts the tube sound quality, and can now do so on low impedance headphones - then it gets out of the way in terms of typical tube warmth and loss of clarity, at least compared to what I heard on the previous Vali. The new Vali 2 is truly a great balancing act between tube signature and solid-state clarity.
  
 I'll be trying my HD650 and HE-1000 shortly...just need to listen to my Grado a little longer


----------



## lvince95

sheldaze said:


> Did the pots get better?
> 
> My previous experiences with the volume knobs on the smaller Schiit devices (Magni 2, Vali) was not as satisfying as this is! Small incremental volume adjustments are doing exactly what I would expect. This truly feels like a better box than the previous generation. I've not had much chance to play with Magni 2 Uber and am curious if this is the same pot.
> 
> ...


 
 The general consensus seems to be that it is much detailed and clear compared to the original Vali, as you clearly noted. What about the differences in bass quantities, extension, speed etc.? Not much has been said about the bass so far.


----------



## Makiah S

sheldaze said:


> Did the pots get better?
> 
> My previous experiences with the volume knobs on the smaller Schiit devices (Magni 2, Vali) was not as satisfying as this is! Small incremental volume adjustments are doing exactly what I would expect. This truly feels like a better box than the previous generation. I've not had much chance to play with Magni 2 Uber and am curious if this is the same pot.
> 
> ...


 
 good to hear  I would imagine my Senn Grado is going to sound really nice through the Vali 2 along with my W1000X
  
 Mine shuld be arriving today or tommorow


----------



## sheldaze

lvince95 said:


> The general consensus seems to be that it is much detailed and clear compared to the original Vali, as you clearly noted. What about the differences in bass quantities, extension, speed etc.? Not much has been said about the bass so far.


 
 Bass versus the original Vali would be hard to compare without the original Vali in hand. I will be asking/requesting/reminding, daily if need be, for our local head-fier to bring his original Vali to our Februrary meet. (Of course the original question was how does HD800 do on the new and old versions of the Vali). I sold my Q701 and the K7XX is use today have a lot more bass. Just popped my HD650 on (I like these headphones a lot too through the Vali 2) and still have to say, first thing that I hear is the clarity of the highs and soundstage depth. The Vali 2 is certainly not lacking bass energy, but I would call the sound balanced overall - for a bass-head, perhaps even a little light with respect to bass. I'm certainly not hearing the thump that I've heard at meets when listening on the Bottlehead Crack or Woo Audio WA3 (internally modified for more power). That WA3 was just craziness - you could enjoy the HD650 while standing next to the person listening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Not sure how to characterize the bass though in the Vali 2, without having a Vali next to me


----------



## bboris77

Hi everyone,
  
 I have had a few more days to play with the Vali 2 and I am still blown away by it. With my T50RP MK III and Q701, it is spectacular. I also have an update regarding how it pairs with my Grado SR60e. Basically, it sounds great and the hiss that the original Vali had is completely gone at the low gain setting (at any volume) and the high gain setting up to about 2 o'clock on the volume pot. After that, I can hear some mild hiss but nobody sane would ever run this headphone at that volume anyway.
  
 I do have a question considering some very mild 60hz hum that I am experiencing with low-impedance high-sensitivity headphones such as the Grados or the PX100. Basically, on these type of phones, there is a low level hum present at any volume setting in the high gain mode. It is very mild and can only be heard when no music is playing. On my PX100 it was present in the low gain mode as well, but it was extremely quiet to the point that you would have to have absolute silence in the room and really concentrate on it to hear it. While I could use the low gain mode for these phones, I prefer the high gain mode since it appears to open up the sound a bit. I only noticed this last night and I did not have the time to let the amp warm up to see if the noise would subside after the tube was up to its optimal temperature. I would really appreciate it if someone can check if their Vali 2 exhibits this kind of behaviour. I read on the Lyr threads that both Lyr and Lyr 2 do this under certain circumstances. I do have a spare stock tube and it too exhibits the same behaviour. I also tried the usual troubleshooting - unplugging everything, moving the amp, trying different outlets and so on.
  
 Second thing that I noticed is that compared to the original Vali, the muting relay allows for a slightly louder pop when the amp is first turned on, especially if you are using the high-gain mode. Not to the point that it is uncomfortable, even on sensitive headphones, but it is something that is different compared to the original which had a mild pop and the famous ringing. The funny thing is that the actual mechanical relay click sound is much softer on the Vali 2 - looking at the board pictures, it is obvious that it is using a much smaller NEC relay, so I guess it is normal that it is behaving quite differently.
  
 Just for the fun of it, I plugged in the original Vali last night to compare and wow, it is so easy to forget the microphonic nature of those micro tubes. With my PX100 there was mild but constant background hiss and adjusting the volume would produce mild ringing for a few seconds. No 60hz hum though at all. Sounds good, but not in the same league as its younger brother.


----------



## bboris77

sheldaze said:


> Bass versus the original Vali would be hard to compare without the original Vali in hand. I will be asking/requesting/reminding, daily if need be, for our local head-fier to bring his original Vali to our Februrary meet. (Of course the original question was how does HD800 do on the new and old versions of the Vali). I sold my Q701 and the K7XX is use today have a lot more bass. Just popped my HD650 on (I like these headphones a lot too through the Vali 2) and still have to say, first thing that I hear is the clarity of the highs and soundstage depth. The Vali 2 is certainly not lacking bass energy, but I would call the sound balanced overall - for a bass-head, perhaps even a little light with respect to bass. I'm certainly not hearing the thump that I've heard at meets when listening on the Bottlehead Crack or Woo Audio WA3 (internally modified for more power). That WA3 was just craziness - you could enjoy the HD650 while standing next to the person listening
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 I have both the Vali and Vali 2. While I did not do any A/B testing as I do not have the proper equipment for that, I can say with full confidence that the bass is much better on the Vali 2 in all aspects. Much better defined, extends lower but it's not bloated or overpowered. It seems faster as well, but it could simply be that the Vali 2 is just getting the best out of my T50RP mk3 planars. I have to say that a much superior bass performance was the first thing I noticed once I switched to the Vali 2 and I have the original Vali sound signature imprinted in my mind as I have been listening to it every day since I got it this summer.


----------



## sheldaze

bboris77 said:


> I do have a question considering some very mild 60hz hum that I am experiencing with low-impedance high-sensitivity headphones such as the Grados or the PX100. Basically, on these type of phones, there is a low level hum present at any volume setting in the high gain mode. It is very mild and can only be heard when no music is playing. On my PX100 it was present in the low gain mode as well, but it was extremely quiet to the point that you would have to have absolute silence in the room and really concentrate on it to hear it. While I could use the low gain mode for these phones, I prefer the high gain mode since it appears to open up the sound a bit. I only noticed this last night and I did not have the time to let the amp warm up to see if the noise would subside after the tube was up to its optimal temperature. I would really appreciate it if someone can check if their Vali 2 exhibits this kind of behaviour. I read on the Lyr threads that both Lyr and Lyr 2 do this under certain circumstances. I do have a spare stock tube and it too exhibits the same behaviour. I also tried the usual troubleshooting - unplugging everything, moving the amp, trying different outlets and so on.
> 
> Second thing that I noticed is that compared to the original Vali, the muting relay allows for a slightly louder pop when the amp is first turned on, especially if you are using the high-gain mode. Not to the point that it is uncomfortable, even on sensitive headphones, but it is something that is different compared to the original which had a mild pop and the famous ringing. The funny thing is that the actual mechanical relay click sound is much softer on the Vali 2 - looking at the board pictures, it is obvious that it is using a much smaller NEC relay, so I guess it is normal that it is behaving quite differently.


 
 Hum is probably due to low-impedance headphone with high-impedance output setting you've selected. Are you sure you cannot just turn up the volume and get the same "open" sound from the low setting? I'm rather attached to the sound (currently listening to a few tracks on my HD650), so I'll have to reconnect my Grado in a short while. Oh, what the hay - just hit pause while I'm typing this - no hum. There is something, very quiet and electrical, but I would not call it a hum. And it is more present on the Grado (while in high setting).
  
 Yes, with regards to the pop. I don't think I'll leave my headphones plugged in as it turns on. I only recall a nice, quiet microphonic "ding" from the original Vali, once the mute switched off. The pop was a little disconcerting - I'll need to read the manual to see what they suggest. But I will just plug in after power on for now.


----------



## Makiah S

sheldaze said:


> Bass versus the original Vali would be hard to compare without the original Vali in hand. I will be asking/requesting/reminding, daily if need be, for our local head-fier to bring his original Vali to our Februrary meet. (Of course the original question was how does HD800 do on the new and old versions of the Vali). I sold my Q701 and the K7XX is use today have a lot more bass. Just popped my HD650 on (I like these headphones a lot too through the Vali 2) and still have to say, first thing that I hear is the clarity of the highs and soundstage depth. The Vali 2 is certainly not lacking bass energy, but I would call the sound balanced overall - for a bass-head, perhaps even a little light with respect to bass. I'm certainly not hearing the thump that I've heard at meets when listening on the Bottlehead Crack or Woo Audio WA3 (internally modified for more power). That WA3 was just craziness - you could enjoy the HD650 while standing next to the person listening
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


sheldaze said:


> Hum is probably due to low-impedance headphone with high-impedance output setting you've selected. Are you sure you cannot just turn up the volume and get the same "open" sound from the low setting? I'm rather attached to the sound (currently listening to a few tracks on my HD650), so I'll have to reconnect my Grado in a short while. Oh, what the hay - just hit pause while I'm typing this - no hum. There is something, very quiet and electrical, but I would not call it a hum. And it is more present on the Grado (while in high setting).
> 
> Yes, with regards to the pop. I don't think I'll leave my headphones plugged in as it turns on. I only recall a nice, quiet microphonic "ding" from the original Vali, once the mute switched off. The pop was a little disconcerting - I'll need to read the manual to see what they suggest. But I will just plug in after power on for now.


 
  
 It's good to hear the general consesus is the Vali 2 is a step above the orignal Vali, I compared the Orignal Vali to the SE out put on my NFB 10E2 which is imo a very poor SE output, an even so the NFB10ES2 had a better sound stage :/ 
  
 point being, I'm hoping an expecting the Vali 2 to be the step forward from the Vali 1, you've all reported 
  
 An I'll know for sure by tommorow!


----------



## bboris77

sheldaze said:


> Hum is probably due to low-impedance headphone with high-impedance output setting you've selected. Are you sure you cannot just turn up the volume and get the same "open" sound from the low setting? I'm rather attached to the sound (currently listening to a few tracks on my HD650), so I'll have to reconnect my Grado in a short while. Oh, what the hay - just hit pause while I'm typing this - no hum. There is something, very quiet and electrical, but I would not call it a hum. And it is more present on the Grado (while in high setting).
> 
> Yes, with regards to the pop. I don't think I'll leave my headphones plugged in as it turns on. I only recall a nice, quiet microphonic "ding" from the original Vali, once the mute switched off. The pop was a little disconcerting - I'll need to read the manual to see what they suggest. But I will just plug in after power on for now.


 

 Thanks! Just to update everyone, someone from Schiit tech support got back to me on both of these items and said that they are normal. I will follow up to ask whether it's safe to leave low-impedance headphones plugged in while powering on in high gain mode. Their manual says that it is but does not hurt asking them to confirm that it is safe under any circumstances.


----------



## rwpritchett

Can someone comment on the light output of the Vali 2? From pictures, it doesn't look like Schiit has LEDs illuminating the tube.

I'm looking into replacing my bedside table headphone amp I listen to at night. Currently, I use a Bravo V1 and I hate the bright LED lights and EMI sensitivity. Since I have a dozen or so tubes already for the V1 that will work with the Vali 2, I'm interested. Is there any tube illumination on the Vali 2? Also, how bright is the white power LED?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

To throw some more fuel on the rolling opportunities, Mike Moffat has told me he likes 6CG7s in the Vali 2. While this tube isn't on the "official" tube list (and it does look extra silly--it's a big tube) it does highlight the fact that you can use tubes up to 600mA heater current with Vali 2.
  
 So, if it has 6DJ8 pinout, 6V heater, and 600mA heater current or under, it's good to go with Vali 2. In addition to the 6CG7s, this opens up the 6N1P as well.
  
 Happy rolling! (And don't go too crazy with it--you can easily eclipse the price of the Vali 2 in tubes.)


----------



## Makiah S

jason stoddard said:


> To throw some more fuel on the rolling opportunities, Mike Moffat has told me he likes 6CG7s in the Vali 2. While this tube isn't on the "official" tube list (and it does look extra silly--it's a big tube) it does highlight the fact that you can use tubes up to 600mA heater current with Vali 2.
> 
> So, if it has 6DJ8 pinout, 6V heater, and 600mA heater current or under, it's good to go with Vali 2. In addition to the 6CG7s, this opens up the 6N1P as well.
> 
> Happy rolling! (And don't go too crazy with it--you can easily eclipse the price of the Vali 2 in tubes.)


 
hmmm an at about $56 dollars it might be worth while to try, I had an RCA 12UA7 Clear top I really liked on my last hybrid am here's a 6CG7 variant from them


----------



## lvince95

jason stoddard said:


> To throw some more fuel on the rolling opportunities, Mike Moffat has told me he likes 6CG7s in the Vali 2. While this tube isn't on the "official" tube list (and it does look extra silly--it's a big tube) it does highlight the fact that you can use tubes up to 600mA heater current with Vali 2.
> 
> So, if it has 6DJ8 pinout, 6V heater, and 600mA heater current or under, it's good to go with Vali 2. In addition to the 6CG7s, this opens up the 6N1P as well.
> 
> Happy rolling! (And don't go too crazy with it--you can easily eclipse the price of the Vali 2 in tubes.)


 
 What about 7DJ8/PCC88 tubes? I have limited experience with tube rolling, but iirc it shoudlw ork fine in 6922 capable amps right?


----------



## Makiah S

jason stoddard said:


> To throw some more fuel on the rolling opportunities, Mike Moffat has told me he likes 6CG7s in the Vali 2. While this tube isn't on the "official" tube list (and it does look extra silly--it's a big tube) it does highlight the fact that you can use tubes up to 600mA heater current with Vali 2.
> 
> So, if it has 6DJ8 pinout, 6V heater, and 600mA heater current or under, it's good to go with Vali 2. In addition to the 6CG7s, this opens up the 6N1P as well.
> 
> Happy rolling! (And don't go too crazy with it--you can easily eclipse the price of the Vali 2 in tubes.)


 
 Also does the 6CG7 need an adapter?


----------



## sheldaze

Came across this gem while listening to my HE-1000 on the Vali 2:

 I like


----------



## bboris77

rwpritchett said:


> Can someone comment on the light output of the Vali 2? From pictures, it doesn't look like Schiit has LEDs illuminating the tube.
> 
> I'm looking into replacing my bedside table headphone amp I listen to at night. Currently, I use a Bravo V1 and I hate the bright LED lights and EMI sensitivity. Since I have a dozen or so tubes already for the V1 that will work with the Vali 2, I'm interested. Is there any tube illumination on the Vali 2? Also, how bright is the white power LED?


 

 I am also sensitive to the bright LED lights and I would say that the LED on the Vali 2 is a bit brighter than the one on the original, but it is still acceptable. In comparison, the LED on my Modi 2 Uber is about 15% dimmer. On the other hand, the LED on my original Modi 2 (non-uber) was blindingly bright. I had to actually put a LightDim on it, and it did the trick.
  
 As for the actual tube, it does light up and it looks awesome. Warm and subtle light. I am attaching a picture taken in the low light environment.
  
 In other news, their tech support confirmed that it should be fine to leave even the low impedance headphones plugged in while turning the amp on or off. They respond so quickly it's not even funny. Pretty impressive.


----------



## bretemm

For the Vali2,
Would using my Bifrost DS be possibly better then the Modi2uber? 
To save (for now) I'm thinking of just getting then the SYS.


----------



## sheldaze

bretemm said:


> For the Vali2,
> Would using my Bifrost DS be possibly better then the Modi2uber?
> To save (for now) I'm thinking of just getting then the SYS.


 
 If you already have a DAC and AMP, just get the SYS and split between the two.
  
 If you are looking for your end-game DAC, the Bifrost will be upgradable. But to me, it's a different topic - a SYS today will let you continue using your existing system and add the Vali 2.


----------



## bigro

Ahh Great. The Vali 2 Has not even arrived yet and now I want to buy tubes to roll.


----------



## sheldaze

At least you're lucky it's just the one tube.
 Reading some other threads on rolling - people have to prioritize when an amp is full of 4 or more of the things.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, thank you, I think latter I'll get the modi2 Uber. But, dosnt the extra rca cables through the SYS interfer a little with sound quality? (Since its passive?) .





sheldaze said:


> If you already have a DAC and AMP, just get the SYS and split between the two.
> 
> If you are looking for your end-game DAC, the Bifrost will be upgradable. But to me, it's a different topic - a SYS today will let you continue using your existing system and add the Vali 2.


----------



## sheldaze

bretemm said:


> Ok, thank you, I think latter I'll get the modi2 Uber. But, dosnt the extra rca cables through the SYS interfer a little with sound quality? (Since its passive?) .


 
 Nope. Nadda. No way!
 The SYS just sounds good, both directions, with volume set to full. Use it to compare two sources or split a source into two


----------



## bretemm

Great, so, I guess I'll soon order the Vali2 and SYS, even more Schiit! i might first just use the vali2 rca in -with a rca to headphone jack with my fiio 





sheldaze said:


> Nope. Nadda. No way!
> The SYS just sounds good, both directions, with volume set to full. Use it to compare two sources or split a source into two


----------



## jfoxvol

My Vali 2 arrived yesterday at my office while I was home sick.  I came in early today and worked through lunch so I could get home early and plug her in.  The Vali 1 has been one of my favorite amps for a long time.  In spite of the noise and microphonics, it just did somethings so well that connected me to the music like no other amp has.  Until now.  The Vali 2 captures the magic of what the original did but much much lower noise and distortion and no ringing.  I currently have hooked up to my Bifrost MB in my living room system.  Damn, I just bought an asgard 2 to get this system going.  Well, it's probably getting sold now.  Maybe.  You can never have too many amps (or guitars).  I will hook up in my main system tomorrow with the Yggy feeding it.  For now, I'm just floored.  So far, just my Oppos PM-3s.  I'll swap out some other cans as I get the time.  Right now I'm just enjoying.  Gee Willikers, Jason.  Knocked this one out of the park, man.  Well done.  I know I've been pounding my fist on the forum for months asking for my Vali 2 after all the other second gen amps came out.  Good things come to those who wait.  I can't wait to hook up my T1s later.


----------



## painted klown

bboris77 said:


> I do have a question considering some very mild 60hz hum that I am experiencing with low-impedance high-sensitivity headphones such as the Grados or the PX100. Basically, on these type of phones, there is a low level hum present at any volume setting in the high gain mode. It is very mild and can only be heard when no music is playing.
> 
> Second thing that I noticed is that compared to the original Vali, the muting relay allows for a slightly louder pop when the amp is first turned on, especially if you are using the high-gain mode. Not to the point that it is uncomfortable, even on sensitive headphones, but it is something that is different compared to the original which had a mild pop and the famous ringing. The funny thing is that the actual mechanical relay click sound is much softer on the Vali 2 - looking at the board pictures, it is obvious that it is using a much smaller NEC relay, so I guess it is normal that it is behaving quite differently.


 
  
 Regarding the hum: I can confirm it does have a low level hum with low Z cans and the gain on high. I didn't notice it yesterday (probably due to my excitement and almost exclusive 650 listening). As you noted, the hum does not change volume up or down. I am guessing it's normal for the amp? Note that I do not hear the hum with the 650's.
  
 I too noticed the relay pop. It happened twice last night, and scared me both times. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oddly, it didn't happen every time I powered on. Either way, I will no longer be powering up with headphones plugged in. It may be safe, but still...I don't want to risk it.
  
 Quote:


bboris77 said:


> Thanks! Just to update everyone, someone from Schiit tech support got back to me on both of these items and said that they are normal. I will follow up to ask whether it's safe to leave low-impedance headphones plugged in while powering on in high gain mode. Their manual says that it is but does not hurt asking them to confirm that it is safe under any circumstances.


 
 Thanks for following up on that. I was worried that my unit had an issue. Glad it's all ok. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


rwpritchett said:


> Can someone comment on the light output of the Vali 2? From pictures, it doesn't look like Schiit has LEDs illuminating the tube.
> 
> I'm looking into replacing my bedside table headphone amp I listen to at night. Currently, I use a Bravo V1 and I hate the bright LED lights and EMI sensitivity. Since I have a dozen or so tubes already for the V1 that will work with the Vali 2, I'm interested. Is there any tube illumination on the Vali 2? Also, how bright is the white power LED?


 
  

  
 Here is a pic of the Vali 2 powered up in a 100% dark room, for reference. Pic was taken with iPhone 6 with no flash engaged.


jason stoddard said:


> To throw some more fuel on the rolling opportunities, Mike Moffat has told me he likes 6CG7s in the Vali 2. While this tube isn't on the "official" tube list (and it does look extra silly--it's a big tube) it does highlight the fact that you can use tubes up to 600mA heater current with Vali 2.
> 
> So, if it has 6DJ8 pinout, 6V heater, and 600mA heater current or under, it's good to go with Vali 2. In addition to the 6CG7s, this opens up the 6N1P as well.
> 
> Happy rolling! (And don't go too crazy with it--you can easily eclipse the price of the Vali 2 in tubes.)


 
 Very cool!
  
 Knowing next to nothing about tubes, especially when it comes to heater voltages and current, is it safe to say that ALL 6CG7, 6N1P, 6DJ8, ECC88, and 6N23P tubes are good to go? Additionally, I often see tubes listed as E88CC. Are these the same thing as ECC88 and are they safe to use as well?
  


bigro said:


> Ahh Great. The Vali 2 Has not even arrived yet and now I want to buy tubes to roll.


 
 LOL! I'm glad I wasn't the only one window shopping for tubes before I had it in hand!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 To be honest, the stock tube sounds wonderful to my ears, so between that (and my crying wallet), I will be happily listening with it bone stock. No tube upgrade required IMO.


----------



## jlangholzj

jason stoddard said:


> To throw some more fuel on the rolling opportunities, Mike Moffat has told me he likes 6CG7s in the Vali 2. While this tube isn't on the "official" tube list (and it does look extra silly--it's a big tube) it does highlight the fact that you can use tubes up to 600mA heater current with Vali 2.
> 
> So, if it has 6DJ8 pinout, 6V heater, and 600mA heater current or under, it's good to go with Vali 2. In addition to the 6CG7s, this opens up the 6N1P as well.
> 
> Happy rolling! (And don't go too crazy with it--you can easily eclipse the price of the Vali 2 in tubes.)


 
  
 This is actually pretty hilarious. I was just talking to Fox about some of the other tubes that might sound great in the amp but was hesitant about the added heater draw. One of which was the 6n1 (I've got a few that run it and love it!). This is great news for the vali2 folks.....there's a couple other hidden diamonds that will fit the profile now.
  
 As always, great work jason and mike


----------



## jfoxvol

jlangholzj said:


> This is actually pretty hilarious. I was just talking to Fox about some of the other tubes that might sound great in the amp but was hesitant about the added heater draw. One of which was the 6n1 (I've got a few that run it and love it!). This is great news for the vali2 folks.....there's a couple other hidden diamonds that will fit the profile now.
> 
> As always, great work jason and mike


 
 Now to find some rusky toobs, dude.  In Soviet Russia, tubes roll you.


----------



## jlangholzj

jfoxvol said:


> Now to find some rusky toobs, dude.  In Soviet Russia, tubes roll you.


 
  
 if it weren't for the 12V heater, the 12au7 might be interesting....without knowing too much about the bias the 5965 *might* work .....and a few others I'm sure. If it weren't for the socket difference there's a few 6SN7 style that could bode well too......Let me dig out some references and see what's what.
  
 I get down to your territory again and I'll bring a slough of tubes and my bias probe. See what works.


----------



## painted klown

A question for those more tech savvy than I.
  
 As the Vali 2 is a hybrid amp, does that mean that the preamp stage is where the tube is inserted, and the amplification stage is solid state?
  
 Apologies for the silly question, but I assume this is the case, especially since the Vali 2 uses preamp tubes.


----------



## jlangholzj

painted klown said:


> Regarding the hum: I can confirm it does have a low level hum with low Z cans and the gain on high. I didn't notice it yesterday (probably due to my excitement and almost exclusive 650 listening). As you noted, the hum does not change volume up or down. I am guessing it's normal for the amp? Note that I do not hear the hum with the 650's.
> 
> I too noticed the relay pop. It happened twice last night, and scared me both times.
> 
> ...


 

  the 6DJ8 is a helluva tube so its no surprise why schiit used it. The 6N1 will draw more heater current and (depending on the filament supply) could cause issues. Why I was talking about it and a few other alternatives with the reserve on heater supply. the 6N23 is a compatible with the ECC88 so it should be okay. NOTE that i don't have a vali2 in my hands (yet) and I'm just rattling off a few ideas with other schiit fanatics on options and I'm *just* and enthusiast . I've got a list of other compatible tubes I'll look at tomorrow and see what may or may not work if it will supply 600ma on the heaters.
  
 In the little time the Vali2 has been out I've been REALLY excited about it, especially after hearing so much praise on the original vali. I think this one might be a game changer in terms of what we (the consumer) have for options!


----------



## jlangholzj

painted klown said:


> A question for those more tech savvy than I.
> 
> As the Vali 2 is a hybrid amp, does that me the preamp stage is where the tube is inserted, and the amplification stage is solid state?
> 
> Apologies for the silly question, but I assume this is the case, especially since the Vali 2 uses preamp tubes.


 

  Not a silly question at all, from what I understood on the original vali....the reason for using a solid state driver stage was....well...multiple reasons. With more traditional valves (like the 12ax7) we've been plagued with the ability to drive output stages due to the nature of the tube. This is why *most* hybrid amps will use a solid state output to address a few of those issues. For those same reasons I'm sure schiit stuck with the same topology and used the tube for a gain stage and the sand for an output. Most of the guys I've talked to will prefer a solid state output for their capability to drive a variety of loads w.r.t the tubes.

 Again...speculation on my part....and holds it worth for what you paid for it


----------



## painted klown

jlangholzj said:


> Not a silly question at all, from what I understood on the original vali....the reason for using a solid state driver stage was....well...multiple reasons. With more traditional valves (like the 12ax7) we've been plagued with the ability to drive output stages due to the nature of the tube. This is why *most* hybrid amps will use a solid state output to address a few of those issues. For those same reasons I'm sure schiit stuck with the same topology and used the tube for a gain stage and the sand for an output. Most of the guys I've talked to will prefer a solid state output for their capability to drive a variety of loads w.r.t the tubes.
> 
> Again...speculation on my part....and holds it worth for what you paid for it


 
 Yeah, in reading the chapter that Jason wrote about this amp, it looked like that was the way he went, due to multiple reasons as you state. Cost was also a factor in this amp, but to my ears, it's much better (in every regard) than I had expected for the price.
  
 To be quite honest, I was thinking I would get it and think it was "ok". Not something crazy good, but a "decent tube 'starter' amp" so-to-speak. A way to test the tube water, to see if I wanted to invest in some "serious" tube gear. I was not prepared for what I actually heard. This amp is no toy IMO. Now I'm sure there are some well seasoned audiophiles out there who may scoff at the hybrid design, or the brand name, or the price, etc, but when you listen to it, you are rewarded with some really nice sounding audio IMO.


----------



## jlangholzj

Fox had the same reaction. I can't wait to get my hands on one.
  
 As an aside even in the world of "pure sand" you can make a FET sound a lot like a tube...quite easily. Truth be told the SS alternatives to tubes will have a lot better z-drive...which...again is just due to their nature of construction. This is the constant 'battle' between the old folks stuck in their ways and us "new kids on the block". In the end through, tubes and sand both have their place in topology. Each does something special and as usual.....mike and jason realized that and hit this one out of the park.
  
 Damnit i just bought some new cans....*i dont need a vali2, i dont need a vali2....i DONT NEED A VALI2*....okay...maybe i do.


----------



## i20bot

Mine came in today but I'm still at work moping around.


----------



## painted klown

i20bot said:


> Mine came in today but I'm still at work moping around.


 

 Congrats on having the longest day at work...ever!  LOL! j/k
  
 Congrats on the new amp. Please give us your impressions once you have had the opportunity to listen.


----------



## i20bot

painted klown said:


> Congrats on having the longest day at work...ever!  LOL! j/k
> 
> Congrats on the new amp. Please give us your impressions once you have had the opportunity to listen.


 

 Spoke too soon.  No one was home to sign for it so I have to go pick it up in the morning.  Now that will be the longest day at work lol.


----------



## Astral Abyss

painted klown said:


> I too noticed the relay pop. It happened twice last night, and scared me both times. :blink: Oddly, it didn't happen every time I powered on. Either way, I will no longer be powering up with headphones plugged in. It may be safe, but still...I don't want to risk it.
> Quote:
> Thanks for following up on that. I was worried that my unit had an issue. Glad it's all ok.




Wanna hear a distressing pop, buy a Lyr 2 and leave your headphones plugged in. In theory, safe. In reality, a bit excessive. Hence why I never leave them plugged in. If there's an acceptable range Schiit allows for, I must be at the top of it


----------



## volly

It's here...


----------



## lvince95

volly said:


> It's here...


 
 That box looks huge! Are you enjoying the Vali 2? Looks like I'm gonna be purchasing it mid-January when I'm done travelling, since impressions so far are all positive.


----------



## volly

Actually, the picture misleads a little...


----------



## volly

I'll be happy to reclaim some desk space, but will miss the Asgard 2 as it's such a work horse! 
  
 I won't have any impressions till Christmas day, oh the agony!!


----------



## bigro

sheldaze said:


> At least you're lucky it's just the one tube.
> Reading some other threads on rolling - people have to prioritize when an amp is full of 4 or more of the things.


 

 I have a Valhalla 2... Been there. The Vali 2 Arrives Today. All of the Reviews thus far are very encouraging.I Will spend some time over the weekend giving it a run through. I was using the Original Vali yesterday and the hiiisssss between tracks and the tiiiiinng when I adjust volume seemed to be amplified now that I have been waiting almost a week from fedex to snail its way of to the other side of the country.


----------



## lvince95

volly said:


> I'll be happy to reclaim some desk space, but will miss the Asgard 2 as it's such a work horse!
> 
> I won't have any impressions till Christmas day, oh the agony!!


 
 Okay it definitely looks smaller now haha.
  
 Are you planning to sell the Asgard 2? Going from Asgard to Vali 2 might be quite different though, and I heard that many people prefer the Philips X2 with SS amps compared to tube. I haven't tested it out yet though. I'm running my X2 without an amp, and will be getting one after Christmas. Still can't really decide between Vali 2 and solid state like Magni 2 Uber/O2.
  
 Seeing that you also have the X2 with a solid state, and now trying tube, I'll probably be basing my decision off your impression as well I reckon. Looking forward to your impressions


----------



## Jane Levi

bigro said:


> I have a Valhalla 2... Been there. The Vali 2 Arrives Today. All of the Reviews thus far are very encouraging.I Will spend some time over the weekend giving it a run through. I was using the Original Vali yesterday and the hiiisssss between tracks and the tiiiiinng when I adjust volume seemed to be amplified now that I have been waiting almost a week from fedex to snail its way of to the other side of the country.


 

 Waiting for Vali 2 vs Valhalla 2 !


----------



## volly

lvince95 said:


> Okay it definitely looks smaller now haha.
> 
> Are you planning to sell the Asgard 2? Going from Asgard to Vali 2 might be quite different though, and I heard that many people prefer the Philips X2 with SS amps compared to tube. I haven't tested it out yet though. I'm running my X2 without an amp, and will be getting one after Christmas. Still can't really decide between Vali 2 and solid state like Magni 2 Uber/O2.
> 
> Seeing that you also have the X2 with a solid state, and now trying tube, I'll probably be basing my decision off your impression as well I reckon. Looking forward to your impressions


 
 I'll be keeping the Asgard2 for now as it is a solid amp. I have a good feeling that the Vali 2 hybrid will be a great match for the X2's so I can't wait to try it out!
  
 I've used the Asgard2 for a few years now and I know the sound quite well, I'll definately give my impressions on the Vali2 as soon as the time comes!


----------



## bigro

jane levi said:


> Waiting for Vali 2 vs Valhalla 2 !


 
 There is also a SYS accompanying the Vali 2 to help with this. Ill will hopefully get to do some comparisons over the weekend. Fair warning,  I Probably will not be doing the comparison with Headphones. The Valhalla 2 is strictly a preamp for a 2 channel speaker setup and that's where I am most familiar with it. Because Tubes Can change the way the amp sounds I plan to swap out the rolled tubes back to the Original Valhalla tube set. 
  
 The Only Pair of cans that has ever been plugged into that Valhalla was by rmoody with his Shure 1540's. He will have the Vali 2 Next weekend to demo.


----------



## i20bot

Just went to pick her up this morning at the Post Office.  But I had to head straight to work after that.  Now the long wait, lol.  That thing is a little smaller than I had expected.  Gave me a chuckle when I opened the box up.  It's pretty hefty for it's size though.  Now that I think about it though.  My Polaris is almost as small as the Vali 2.


----------



## bigro

Looking at the the pictures the tubes looks a lot bigger than they really are because of it's size. For some reason My tube is bigger than yours jokes come to mind.


----------



## Badfish5446

painted klown said:


> Very cool!
> 
> Knowing next to nothing about tubes, especially when it comes to heater voltages and current, is it safe to say that ALL 6CG7, 6N1P, 6DJ8, ECC88, and 6N23P tubes are good to go? Additionally, I often see tubes listed as E88CC. Are these the same thing as ECC88 and are they safe to use as well?
> 
> ...


 
  
 E88CC = 6922,  ECC88 = 6DJ8, all work in the "rollable" schiit products.  E88CC/6922 work in 6DJ8 systems but not necessarily the other way round depending on design of the amp.


----------



## painted klown

badfish5446 said:


> E88CC = 6922,  ECC88 = 6DJ8, all work in the "rollable" schiit products.  E88CC/6922 work in 6DJ8 systems but not necessarily the other way round depending on design of the amp.


 

 Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate the help.


----------



## lvince95

painted klown said:


> Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate the help.


 
 Yup, what Badfish says about the tube compatibility is accurate.
  
 Tube rolling won't be very effective with the Vali 2, when compared to proper tube amps. Keep in mind that Vali 2 is still considered a 'hybrid tube amp' by Schiit. IMO it's better to save money and upgrade in the future, than to invest in expensive NOS tubes for the Vali 2. Basically, Good tube amp + decent tubes > Budget/hybrid tube amp + expensive tubes.
  
 Even if you do want to tube-roll, you can always opt for current production tubes, like the Electro-Harmonix 6922 tubes. They are generally well received, and some people even prefer them to expensive NOS tubes in their expensive amps like the Lyr. And the Electro Harmonix only costs ~$20-30 for 1 tube, so it might be worthwhile to buy one and test it out compared to the stock tubes if you are ever so curious.
  
 Here's a short summary of some of the current production tubes, compiled by IndySpeed.


----------



## lvince95

Also, the tubes listed are 6922 tubes, which will work with the Vali 2. If you ever want to tube roll, start out with the cheaper current production ones and see if you can tell a difference. Don't start by splurging on expensive tubes, since you generally can't return tubes and you might find you wasted $100++ when you can't really hear a significant difference worth the money using the Vali 2.
  
 Most people who review tubes or give impressions are using top of the line tube amps, so you might not hear what they hear with the Vali 2.


----------



## painted klown

lvince95 said:


> Yup, what Badfish says about the tube compatibility is accurate.
> 
> Tube rolling won't be very effective with the Vali 2, when compared to proper tube amps. Keep in mind that Vali 2 is still considered a 'hybrid tube amp' by Schiit. IMO it's better to save money and upgrade in the future, than to invest in expensive NOS tubes for the Vali 2. Basically, Good tube amp + decent tubes > Budget/hybrid tube amp + expensive tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


lvince95 said:


> Also, the tubes listed are 6922 tubes, which will work with the Vali 2. If you ever want to tube roll, start out with the cheaper current production ones and see if you can tell a difference. Don't start by splurging on expensive tubes, since you generally can't return tubes and you might find you wasted $100++ when you can't really hear a significant difference worth the money using the Vali 2.
> 
> Most people who review tubes or give impressions are using top of the line tube amps, so you might not hear what they hear with the Vali 2.


 
 Thanks, good advice indeed. It seems hard (well, to me anyway) to find/figure out what tubes are actually in production currently. I actually tried looking at web sites that sell tube guitar amps (Sweetwater, etc) as they have tubes on there (and wouldn't have NOS) but none of the tubes I saw listed would work in the Vali 2.
  
 I do like the idea of starting with a low cost current production tube, to see how audible any differences may (or may not) be. Maybe go with a tube that has sonic characteristics that are generally considered to be different than the stock one, so I can't just chalk it up to "this tube just sounds like the stock one, maybe I should get a really expensive one to try". If that makes sense. I can see getting into a bit of a money trap seeking out NOS tubes (that may sound vastly different than the stock one in a different amp), only to put them in the Vali 2 and thinking the change was definitely not worth it. (I hope that rambling made sense) LOL!


----------



## lvince95

painted klown said:


> Thanks, good advice indeed. It seems hard (well, to me anyway) to find/figure out what tubes are actually in production currently. I do like the idea of starting with a low cost current production tube, to see how audible any differences may (or may not) be. Maybe go with a tube that has sonic characteristics that are generally considered to be different than the stock one, so I can't just chalk it up to "this tube just sounds like the stock one, maybe I should get a really expensive one to try". If that makes sense. I can see getting into a bit of a money trap seeking out NOS tubes (that may sound vastly different than the stock one in a different amp), only to put them in the Vali 2 and thinking the change was definitely not worth it. (I hope that rambling made sense) LOL!


 
 NOS means new old stock, and basically all of them are made in the 20th century or maybe even older, but don't quote me on that I don't know much about NOS. Regardless, it is usually stated if the tubes are NOS. My advice? You only really need to consider 3 tubes for now: the electro harmonix, jj, and genalex gold lion. These 3 are fairly popular current production tubes and won't cost you an arm and a leg.
  
 They will probably be better than the stock tubes, since Schiit has to buy cheaper ones in bulk to save some money and also keep the cost of the amp down and make it affordable for us. IF you hear and like the difference, SAVE UP for a dedicated tube amp to pair with more expensive tubes in the future.
  
 But my ultimate advice for you if you like the difference:
  
 Bring your vali 2 and other equipment to a head-fi meet, and test an expensive tube you are interested in. After all, the whole audiophile hobby is a purely subjective and preference-based hobby. Only your ears will know what you like. For now, just enjoy the Vali 2 and try out the electro-harmonix if you are interested. Plan to attend a head-fi/hifi meet in your area in the future. I cannot stress enough how beneficial these meets are: you get to hear for yourself what your dream setup sounds like, and if it's not what you hoped for it to sound like, you don't waste any money.
  
 EDIT: I was pretty shy and skeptical about hifi meets too, since I only had entry-mid level gear. But I must say, everyone at the meet I attended was really friendly and nice to me, and let me try out all sorts of setups. I left the meet with tons of new knowledge and also revised my shopping list after.


----------



## painted klown

lvince95 said:


> NOS means new old stock, and basically all of them are made in the 20th century or maybe even older, but don't quote me on that I don't know much about NOS. Regardless, it is usually stated if the tubes are NOS. My advice? You only really need to consider 3 tubes for now: the electro harmonix, jj, and genalex gold lion. These 3 are fairly popular current production tubes and won't cost you an arm and a leg.
> 
> They will probably be better than the stock tubes, since Schiit has to buy cheaper ones in bulk to save some money and also keep the cost of the amp down and make it affordable for us. IF you hear and like the difference, SAVE UP for a dedicated tube amp to pair with more expensive tubes in the future.
> 
> ...


 

 I would love to go to a meet some time, but I live in northwest Iowa, so there aren't ever any meets that are local to me. Even if it was a small meet up between 3-5 head-fi'ers, I'd be down to go. Not only to hear some different gear, but to spend time hanging out with people who actually like ot geek out on this stuff!


----------



## bigro

Ladies and Gentleman The Vali Has Finally Arrived. Yes, it was delivered but that is not what I mean. The Vali 2 Is a Lightweight that is hitting above it's class.  No background hiss. No tiiiiiiiiing. and it matches the Modi 2 Uber. I'm not going to give details yet, so just Initial thoughts. It needs a few hours to start to settle in, After about 3 hours it started to settle in and open up. If you liked the original Vali I think you really are going to like the deuce. There is very good detail and its tonal balance is very good.
  
 I don't know where the thought that changing tube will not have little effect on the way the Vali 2 Sounds. Mike Moffat is running an entirely different tube that's not even on the approved tube list as stated earlier. It would make no sense for him to change the tube if it had no affect on the sound. With that said while hard to wait, I would say hold of on ordering tubes to roll until you hear the amp and get an idea for what stock setup sounds like. It is very very good.
  
 On the NOS Tubes You can find some that are cheaper or similar prices to new ones that are matched,  you just need to look. In my Valhalla I actually like early 70's NOS Vokshod rocket Tubes gold grids over the new JJ tubes. Electo harmonix is on the list to try.
  
 Ill get some comparisons done over the next few days. With some tube swaps as well and get back


----------



## Makiah S

I've got my Vali 2 in as well, an YES YES it's very nice sounding  an it drives my HE 4 [high gain Output from my Dac an High Gain on the Amp]


----------



## painted klown

bigro said:


> Ladies and Gentleman The Vali Has Finally Arrived. Yes, it was delivered but that is not what I mean. The Vali 2 Is a Lightweight that is hitting above it's class.  No background hiss. No tiiiiiiiiing. and it matches the Modi 2 Uber. I'm not going to give details yet, so just Initial thoughts. It needs a few hours to start to settle in, After about 3 hours it started to settle in and open up. If you liked the original Vali I think you really are going to like the deuce. There is very good detail and its tonal balance is very good.
> 
> I don't know where the thought that changing tube will not have little effect on the way the Vali 2 Sounds. Mike Moffat is running an entirely different tube that's not even on the approved tube list as stated earlier. It would make no sense for him to change the tube if it had no affect on the sound. With that said while hard to wait, I would say hold of on ordering tubes to roll until you hear the amp and get an idea for what stock setup sounds like. It is very very good.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the initial impressions. Please, do some tube rolling and let us know how it goes. I am super curius to see how the Vali 2 takes to rolling.
  
 Congrats on the new amp, glad you are enjoying it thus far...and YES, the stock tube IS very very good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





mshenay said:


> I've got my Vali 2 in as well, an YES YES it's very nice sounding  an it drives my HE 4 [high gain Output from my Dac an High Gain on the Amp]


 
 Congrats to you as well.
  
 I am happy to see more new owners reporting in. Please share your thoughts with us when you have some time.


----------



## Capt369

I have and love the asgard 2, I'm just wondering what kind of different flavor I'd get with the vali 2.
  
 Any ideas?
  
 TH XOO...HE400S...Fidelio X2 cans in the inventory.


----------



## aamefford

I'm enjoying the heck out of mine.  Head and shoulders above the original Vali.  I received my Liquid Carbon on Wednesday, and the Vali2 on Thursday (ordered the Vali2 last Friday, the LC last April....).  I've been switching back and forth.  They are different sounding, of course. The Vali2 holds its own quite well.  I'm using Oppo PM-1's at the moment which are very efficient.  I had a bit of hum at first.  I did a bit of rearranging, and the hum is gone.  I think it was sitting just above the power supply from my LC, which was right above the power supply from my Dac-19, and right near a cheap desk lamp.  All is good now.
  
 Signature is detailed and slightly treble emphasized compared to the Cavalli (but with good bass).  I'll let them both run in for another couple of days.  I'll be looking for an ever so slightly more lush tube.  I'll probably wait for reports from others on like tubes.
  
 Bottom line?  The Vali was a shade under $200 (California tax and a 10-spot for shipping) and worth every penny and then some.  It sounds great, it's little, you can roll tubes.  Highly recommended way to spend $200!


----------



## painted klown

aamefford said:


> I'm enjoying the heck out of mine.  Head and shoulders above the original Vali.  I received my Liquid Carbon on Wednesday, and the Vali2 on Thursday (ordered the Vali2 last Friday, the LC last April....).  I've been switching back and forth.  They are different sounding, of course. The Vali2 holds its own quite well.  I'm using Oppo PM-1's at the moment which are very efficient.  I had a bit of hum at first.  I did a bit of rearranging, and the hum is gone.  I think it was sitting just above the power supply from my LC, which was right above the power supply from my Dac-19, and right near a cheap desk lamp.  All is good now.
> 
> Signature is detailed and slightly treble emphasized compared to the Cavalli (but with good bass).  I'll let them both run in for another couple of days.  I'll be looking for an ever so slightly more lush tube.  I'll probably wait for reports from others on like tubes.
> 
> Bottom line?  The Vali was a shade under $200 (California tax and a 10-spot for shipping) and worth every penny and then some.  It sounds great, it's little, you can roll tubes.  Highly recommended way to spend $200!


 

 Thanks for the initial impressions. It's cool to see the Vali 2 being compared to a crazy high end amp like the LC. LOL! I was actually drooling over that amp myself, but just didn't have the scratch for it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Interesting you find the Vali 2 to be brighter than the LC. Being that this is my first tube product (of any kind), I was under the false assumption that all tubes had somewhat rolled off treble, however I quickly learned that this is NOT the case at all, at least with the Vali 2 and stock tube. May I ask what your DAC is, just for reference? How are you liking the LC? On paper, that is one SWEET amp!!! Congrats on both of them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Please keep us updated with your thoughts and comparisons.


----------



## aamefford

Schiit thread, so check my profile for my Dac, and I'll keep my comments on the LC brief - it was worth the wait. I'll repeat for the record - the Vali2 is one cool little amp!


----------



## lvince95

bigro said:


> Ladies and Gentleman The Vali Has Finally Arrived. Yes, it was delivered but that is not what I mean. The Vali 2 Is a Lightweight that is hitting above it's class.  No background hiss. No tiiiiiiiiing. and it matches the Modi 2 Uber. I'm not going to give details yet, so just Initial thoughts. It needs a few hours to start to settle in, After about 3 hours it started to settle in and open up. If you liked the original Vali I think you really are going to like the deuce. There is very good detail and its tonal balance is very good.
> 
> I don't know where the thought that changing tube will not have little effect on the way the Vali 2 Sounds. Mike Moffat is running an entirely different tube that's not even on the approved tube list as stated earlier. It would make no sense for him to change the tube if it had no affect on the sound. With that said while hard to wait, I would say hold of on ordering tubes to roll until you hear the amp and get an idea for what stock setup sounds like. It is very very good.
> 
> ...




I meant the effect probably wont be as pronounced as compared to a dedicated tube amp like the Lyr, which utilises different circuitry and multiple tubes. Of course, changing tubes willl definitely change the way how the Vali 2 sounds!

Looking forward to your impressions. I'll probably be getting my Vali 2 in January and can't wait to try it out as well.


----------



## Capt369

I have and love the Asgard 2. I'm just wondering if it's worth it to grab the vali2 as well for a little flavor change. All my cans are low impedence. Thoughts?


----------



## painted klown

capt369 said:


> I have and love the Asgard 2. I'm just wondering if it's worth it to grab the vali2 as well for a little flavor change. All my cans are low impedence. Thoughts?


 
 I cannot compare the Vali 2 to the Asgard 2, as I have never heard the Asgard 2, so maybe someone else can chime in on that.
  
 In regards to low Z cans, I can confirm that the Vali 2 does an excellent job with them. All of my 'phones (aside from the HD-650) are also low Z and the Vali 2 has no problems with them.
  
 As noted earlier ITT, when using low Z cans on high gain mode, there is a slight low level hum that can be heard. To my ears, the hum sounds more like an electrical/60 second cycle type of hum, than what I would consider amp noise, if that makes sense.
  
 The hum does not change volume with the amp. It remains at the same low level no matter the volume setting (even completely turned down). I am not sure of the hum in inherent in the tube, amp design, or possibly even something that power conditioning could take care of. Having said that, I didn't even notice the hum until it was mentioned by another user, and I went back to listen for it. It really is a non-issue IMO, especially because it disappears completely when in low gain mode (which you would be using for low Z 'phones anyway) and I cannot hear it at all (with either gain setting) on my 650.
  
 Specs according to the Schiit website are as follows:
   
*Frequency Response: *20Hz-20Khz, -0.2db, 5Hz-150KHz, -3dB
*Maximum Power, 16 ohms: *1300mW RMS per channel
*Maximum Power, 32 ohms: *1000mW RMS per channel
*Maximum Power, 50 ohms: *650mW RMS per channel
*Maximum Power, 300 ohms:* 270mW RMS per channel
*Maximum Power, 600 ohms: *140mW RMS per channel
*THD: *<0.03%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS, low gain 
*IMD: *<0.05%, CCIR, low gain
*SNR: *>99db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS, low gain
*Crosstalk:* -68dB, 20Hz-20KHz
  
*Output Impedance:* 1.2 ohms in low gain mode, 5.8 ohms in high gain mode
*Gain: *5 (14dB) or 1.25 (2dB)
  
*Topology: *Tube voltage gain with convolved bipolar current mode inverter and discrete bipolar class AB output stage
*Protection: *delayed start and fast shut-down with muting relay
*Power Supply: *wall wart with 24VAC and 6VAC outputs, regulated HV and LV rails for tube and bipolar components, 6V AC heater 
*Power Consumption: *9W
  
*Size:* 5 x 3.5 x 2.75”
*Weight: *1 lb

  
 Hope that helps! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 -Dave


----------



## Capt369

painted klown said:


> I cannot compare the Vali 2 to the Asgard 2, as I have never heard the Asgard 2, so maybe someone else can chime in on that.
> 
> In regards to low Z cans, I can confirm that the Vali 2 does an excellent job with them. All of my 'phones (aside from the HD-650) are also low Z and the Vali 2 has no problems with them.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, thanks for your input. I may just order one, they give you a couple weeks to listen to it and then can be sent back if it doesn`t better the asgard in some respect. I emailed Nick at schiit to get his input.


----------



## rgmffn

capt369 said:


> Yes, thanks for your input. I may just order one, they give you a couple weeks to listen to it and then can be sent back if it doesn`t better the asgard in some respect. I emailed Nick at schiit to get his input.


 

 I'm not sure anyone can tell you accurately what experiences you can expect.  So much depends on your equipment, your preferred style of music, and what sound signature you like.  To be sure, me thinks you're gonna have to try it for yourself.  Just think of it this way, just think of all the fun you'll have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I don't have the Vali 2... yet, but I do have the org Vali and the Asgard 2, at the moment.  Can you let us know what Nick has to say, if possible. You can paraphrase.  I, as well as others I'm sure, would be interested.


----------



## dmallen

Hi all, got the Vali 2 yesterday. Setup is MAC mini, toslink to Brifrost DAC and Vali 2. First impressions this little tube amp is awesome. I have listened with Hifiman HE-400s and HD650's. Got a few IEM's (Westone 4R and Shure SE535) to try out soon, but enjoying the open cans too much at the moment. I took some pics but as a new starter to this site not allow to post them yet. As for distortion... none.
  
 Like to also give 10/10 to Schiit for there service. Very helpful, emails get quick replies and even with a small change in my order, done... no problems.


----------



## Capt369

rgmffn said:


> I'm not sure anyone can tell you accurately what experiences you can expect.  So much depends on your equipment, your preferred style of music, and what sound signature you like.  To be sure, me thinks you're gonna have to try it for yourself.  Just think of it this way, just think of all the fun you'll have.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I will.


----------



## bigro

lvince95 said:


> I meant the effect probably wont be as pronounced as compared to a dedicated tube amp like the Lyr, which utilises different circuitry and multiple tubes. Of course, changing tubes willl definitely change the way how the Vali 2 sounds!
> 
> Looking forward to your impressions. I'll probably be getting my Vali 2 in January and can't wait to try it out as well.


 

 The Lyr 2 Is a Tube Hybrid, Just as the Vali 2 is. Tubes on the input side and solid state on the output side.The Valhalla is an all tube amplifier. The Lyr 2 Has Monster Power Compared to the Vali 2. That is one Amp I would like to try.
  


capt369 said:


> I have and love the Asgard 2. I'm just wondering if it's worth it to grab the vali2 as well for a little flavor change. All my cans are low impedence. Thoughts?


 
 The Asgard 2 is a gem of an amp. My buddy rmoody has one and it is very impressive. At this Point I do not have the need for an Asgard 2 but I sure as hell would love to have one.  The Vali 2 for a change of pace, sure. It s a pretty inexpensive way to get some of that tube goodness and it's not like taking a step down in quality. Be aware you will more than likely disturb you inner peace as you try to figure you which one you like better.


----------



## Capt369

bigro said:


> The Lyr 2 Is a Tube Hybrid, Just as the Vali 2 is. Tubes on the input side and solid state on the output side.The Valhalla is an all tube amplifier. The Lyr 2 Has Monster Power Compared to the Vali 2. That is one Amp I would like to try.
> 
> The Asgard 2 is a gem of an amp. My buddy rmoody has one and it is very impressive. At this Point I do not have the need for an Asgard 2 but I sure as hell would love to have one.  The Vali 2 for a change of pace, sure. It s a pretty inexpensive way to get some of that tube goodness and it's not like taking a step down in quality. Be aware you will more than likely disturb you inner peace as you try to figure you which one you like better.


 

 I had a Cary SLI-80 on my big rig before I had to sell it so I know the tube sound in a big way and I love it'


----------



## sheldaze

capt369 said:


> I have and love the Asgard 2, I'm just wondering what kind of different flavor I'd get with the Vali 2.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> TH XOO...HE400S...Fidelio X2 cans in the inventory.


 


capt369 said:


> I have and love the Asgard 2. I'm just wondering if it's worth it to grab the Vali 2 as well for a little flavor change. All my cans are low impedance. Thoughts?


 
 I agree with what others have had to say - it will be hard to tell, your tastes and if you will like the tube sound from the Vali 2. However:
  

Vali 2 will have zero issues with the cans you have listed - no impedance mismatch problems. My Grado headphones are low impedance, and I really dug the sound: m9XX > Vali 2 > SR60i
I would not recommend the Vali 2 (or any tube amplifier) for use with the Fostex TH-X00. This is such a lush sounding headphone, by its nature, such that no additives are necessary or in my opinion helpful. This is quite different from an impedance mismatch issue, or a softening of the treble or bass - the Vali 2 does not do those things. But it is still a tube. The TH-X00 sounds great from a sharp, solid-state, low impedance source. Your Asgard 2 likely sounds fantastic with this headphone. I'm currently using it straight from my Grace Design m9XX into the TH-X00 cans.


----------



## Capt369

sheldaze said:


> I agree with what others have had to say - it will be hard to tell, your tastes and if you will like the tube sound from the Vali 2. However:
> 
> 
> Vali 2 will have zero issues with the cans you have listed - no impedance mismatch problems. My Grado headphones are low impedance, and I really dug the sound: m9XX > Vali 2 > SR60i
> I would not recommend the Vali 2 (or any tube amplifier) for use with the Fostex TH-X00. This is such a lush sounding headphone, by its nature, such that no additives are necessary or in my opinion helpful. This is quite different from an impedance mismatch issue, or a softening of the treble or bass - the Vali 2 does not do those things. But it is still a tube. The TH-X00 sounds great from a sharp, solid-state, low impedance source. Your Asgard 2 likely sounds fantastic with this headphone. I'm currently using it straight from my Grace Design m9XX into the TH-X00 cans.


 

 Right, I probably wouldn't use it with th xoo or the x2 but I would be curious as to how it pairs with he400s.


----------



## sheldaze

capt369 said:


> Right, I probably wouldn't use it with th xoo or the x2 but I would be curious as to how it pairs with he400s.


 
 Just plugged mine in - no problems 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Definitely the HE-400S are one of the pairs of headphones you should try to see if you like the tube sound! Subtle though, like when I tried it with my HE-1000.


----------



## Capt369

sheldaze said:


> Just plugged mine in - no problems
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Before I buy the vali 2, I'll wait to see if someone has both the asgard2 and the valid 2 to get their impressions.


----------



## bboris77

jason stoddard said:


> To throw some more fuel on the rolling opportunities, Mike Moffat has told me he likes 6CG7s in the Vali 2. While this tube isn't on the "official" tube list (and it does look extra silly--it's a big tube) it does highlight the fact that you can use tubes up to 600mA heater current with Vali 2.
> 
> So, if it has 6DJ8 pinout, 6V heater, and 600mA heater current or under, it's good to go with Vali 2. In addition to the 6CG7s, this opens up the 6N1P as well.
> 
> Happy rolling! (And don't go too crazy with it--you can easily eclipse the price of the Vali 2 in tubes.)


 
 Hi Jason,
  
 You guys did a really good job with the Vali 2. I am absolutely blown away with the sound quality even with the stock tubes, especially when used in combination with planar headphones (T50RPmkIII). I know this tube rolling is a slippery slope, so I wonder what kind of improvement or changes to the sound signature one can expect with the 6CG7 tubes. Would you be able to tell us which specific tube Mike has been using? I was planning to order the new production Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 Golds. Honestly though, it's hard to imagine that one can further improve the sound signature of the Vali 2. I guess it's a matter of personal taste at that point.


----------



## lvince95

sheldaze said:


> I agree with what others have had to say - it will be hard to tell, your tastes and if you will like the tube sound from the Vali 2. However:
> 
> 
> Vali 2 will have zero issues with the cans you have listed - no impedance mismatch problems. My Grado headphones are low impedance, and I really dug the sound: m9XX > Vali 2 > SR60i
> I would not recommend the Vali 2 (or any tube amplifier) for use with the Fostex TH-X00. This is such a lush sounding headphone, by its nature, such that no additives are necessary or in my opinion helpful. This is quite different from an impedance mismatch issue, or a softening of the treble or bass - the Vali 2 does not do those things. But it is still a tube. The TH-X00 sounds great from a sharp, solid-state, low impedance source. Your Asgard 2 likely sounds fantastic with this headphone. I'm currently using it straight from my Grace Design m9XX into the TH-X00 cans.


 
 If you don't mind me asking, what changes does the Vali 2 bring with the Fostex? Was the bass boomy, or maybe treble too rolled off or mids too lush?


----------



## sheldaze

lvince95 said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what changes does the Vali 2 bring with the Fostex? Was the bass boomy, or maybe treble too rolled off or mids too lush?


 
 Nope.
  
 The Vali 2 has none of the adverse reactions that would come from an impedance mismatch (boom), or a "lush" usage of tubes (rolled off) - you can add lush tubes and roll on your own. With the stock tube, I'm finding sound to be quite clear across the entire frequency spectrum. Nothing truly added or taken away, but it is still a tube - hard to explain until you hear it. The tube character just adds nothing to the signature of the TH-X00, which is already very nice and enjoyable. I think you'll find a few more impressions in the Fostex thread:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/791071/the-official-massdrop-fostex-th-x00-owners-impressions-and-discussions-thread/30#post_12175231
  
 You may need to scroll up a few posts from the link above...


----------



## MrPanda

Would the Electro-Harmonix 6CG7  work in a Vali 2? Thanks


----------



## lvince95

sheldaze said:


> Nope.
> 
> The Vali 2 has none of the adverse reactions that would come from an impedance mismatch (boom), or a "lush" usage of tubes (rolled off) - you can add lush tubes and roll on your own. With the stock tube, I'm finding sound to be quite clear across the entire frequency spectrum. Nothing truly added or taken away, but it is still a tube - hard to explain until you hear it. The tube character just adds nothing to the signature of the TH-X00, which is already very nice and enjoyable. I think you'll find a few more impressions in the Fostex thread:
> 
> ...


 
 I see. I am currently running my Philips X2 without a dac and amp as of today, and will probably get the modi 2 uber and vali stack come January when I'm done with vacation. The thing is I also plan to get in on the next Fostex TH-X00 drop, which kinda makes me have to plan ahead. I listen to EDM only so maybe my taste preference will be different, and I MIGHT liek the tube sound with the Fostex next time, I dont know yet of course.
  
 When the time comes, I think I'll try the Fostex with the Vali 2 first, and if the sound is too tubby for me I'll just add a budget SS amp like an O2 to my setup.
  
 I guess I'll be posting my impressions with the Vali 2 here sometime in January.


----------



## bigro

capt369 said:


> I had a Cary SLI-80 on my big rig before I had to sell it so I know the tube sound in a big way and I love it'


 

 Then I am sure you will impressed with what his little package has to offer. This reminds me of when the Modi 2U was released. It was a big step step above the original Modi and closed the Gap between the Modi line and the Bifrost Line. That is Until the MB version was released. I am really enjoying the Vali 2 U and can't wait to get it to it's final home on my work desk with the Modi 2 U. now what to do with the original Vali?
  
 I am Listening to the Vali 2 with a 60's Tesla ECC88 Tube. The Stock Valhalla 2 6N1P is Next. Then I am Pulling the early 70's 6N1P-EV Vokshod Rocket's that I currently run in the Valhalla 2
  
 Random Side Note of no importance.
 The Stock the 6BZ7 Glows a lot brighter than the ECC88


----------



## painted klown

Hey all,
  
 I have noticed something that has piqued my interest. Schiit states on their website that the Vali 2 comes with a NOS RCA 6BZ7 tube and the stock photo on the Schiit site clearly shows a General Electric tube.  However, when my Vali 2 arrived, it comes with a tube that is stamped with a Magnavox logo and looks old & dirty.
  
 Additionally, I see from the photo that bboris77 posted, it says XXXonic (I can't quite make it out from the pic) and the tube looks shiny and new.
  
 So, what stock tube did your vali 2 come with all?
  
 I think it would be fun to keep a tally. of sorts, if anyone else is interested.
  
 Painted Klown = Magnavox


----------



## a44100Hz

I've always been curious about tubes and this tech looks like the best way to get into it. Ordered one. Will compare it to the Magni 2 at some point.


----------



## sheldaze

painted klown said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I have noticed something that has piqued my interest. Schiit states on their website that the Vali 2 comes with a NOS RCA 6BZ7 tube and the stock photo on the Schiit site clearly shows a General Electric tube.  However, when my Vali 2 arrived, it comes with a tube that is stamped with a Magnavox logo and looks old & dirty.
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry for crappy picture, but my iPhone is still charging:

 But the words on my tube read as Electra-something, not what looks like Magnavox on your tube. They both say MADE IN USA.
  
 I have zero tube knowledge


----------



## bboris77

painted klown said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I have noticed something that has piqued my interest. Schiit states on their website that the Vali 2 comes with a NOS RCA 6BZ7 tube and the stock photo on the Schiit site clearly shows a General Electric tube.  However, when my Vali 2 arrived, it comes with a tube that is stamped with a Magnavox logo and looks old & dirty.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I got 2 stock tubes with my Vali 2 (ordered one extra). They are both NOS General Electric 6BZ7 tubes. One of them says Made in USA and the other one says CM which presumably means Canadian-made. They are both obviously NOS but I would not describe them as dirty. Just old


----------



## aamefford

GE 6BZ7 stock tube on mine. Sounds nice, would like something equally detailed, a bit more lush or less treble tilt, same or better bass, price in line with a sub-$200 amp. 

Anyone open a Vali 2 tube rolling thread yet?


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

Well my Vali2 arrived late yesterday.When I finally got around to setting it up it was pretty late.First listen was horrible.SSSibilance up the wazoo,cold & WAYYY to bright.Pulled up a song from computer,set it too continuous reply & went to bed.By the time I got around to listening this mourning the amp had around 15 hours on it.HOLY CRAP,this definitely ain't the Vali1.As already stated the amp is ABSOLUTELY dead quiet.First thing I did was suss out the Hi/Low Gain switch.I couldn't believe how closely the Vali2 High/Low switch mirrored my experiences with the UL/Triode Modes on my EL34 driven Integrated Amp.With my 400i's the High Gain was BIG & BOLD with a shallow sound stage.Tonal color was just ok & the sound had a forced feeling to it.Switching to Low Gain the sound stage was just as wide but gained a HUGE amount of depth.Tonal colors seemed more saturated.Instruments that sounded cold or clinical now had an organic feeling,where I had been simply hearing a violin or cello I could now feel the instruments wooden construction & resonance.The presentation was now more relaxed,music seemed to flow without effort.Speaking on tone,this is NOT a syrupy,rolled off,sloppy bass amp.I would say this thing is about as neutral an amp as you could want.With the stock GE tube & the HE-400i's the sound is almost too much.RAZOR sharp,like looking out a clean window at a snow covered field with a crystal clear blue sky above! This type of sound does have a  few perks.Brass has real bite,like the real thing.Cymbal decay is clearly  heard & brushwork is sublime.Stiil I need a bit of warmth so I'm off to look for a couple of tubes to roll in.


----------



## TRapz

Does anyone know if the Vali 2 will be available on Amazon any time soon? I'm looking into one, and will be getting an Amazon gift card for Christmas.


----------



## Headphone4Life

My original Vali has a channel imbalance and I've contacted Schiit to have it fixed.  Now that they have a Vali 2 that actually has a tube you can roll with I'm going to see if I can just pay the $50 difference and get one of those, but if not I'll be happy with a fixed original, for now at least.


----------



## jfoxvol

My current favorite setup with this amp is as follows
  
 Mac (audirvana) -> wyrd -> Bimby -> Vali 2 -> Ether-C / HD-600
  
 The stock tube is really great.  This is a real step up from the original Vali.  The original I still love and it is still magical.  I plan to do some rolling but the above setup is absolutely stellar.  Very musical.  The Ether C looooooves this amp.


----------



## tommo21

Just a few comments regarding tubes. Tubes usually need burn-in at minimum 10-15 hours before they sound their best(NOS/NEW). Some upwards to 50 hours. At each start-up they also usually need 15-30 minutes before they reach good working temperature.
  
 Also, as my experience tell me with especially 9 pin 6 volt tubes is that the nuances in sound between the different manufacturers and types usually are very small. Don't expect night and day differences between tubes. Then you will be very disappointed.
  
 I've got plenty off different variants from the most expensive to new production tubes. If you can't afford the most expensive tubes, don't feel bad. You can get 95% of the sound from several of the tubes produced today, and less sought after NOS ones. The last 5% is way to expensive and pointless to go after for an entry level amp like this. Especially since it's just the pre-amp part that's passing the signal through the tube.
  
 This gives you only 1/3 of the "real" tube sound(Hybrid amp). To get more tube sound you need amps with driver tubes as well, and that's not so cheap.
  
 If I shall recommend a tube, it could be a new production Russian type(Tung Sol/Gold Lion), or also NOS 6N23P in  their different variants. Russian NOS/NEW tubes are ones that benefit of more burn-in time of up to 50 hours. But beware...the Russian tubes are starting to get fewer and more expensive as well. At one point you could buy them in the 100's for $30-50, now they start to cost that a piece.
  
 I felt the need to write this, because there's been a few disappointments along the way for me as well in this tube-mad world.
  
 I've not bought the Vali 2 or might not even do it, since I have a Project Ember, which it's also a tube hybrid amp. It's tempting though.


----------



## mithrandir38

bboris77 said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> You guys did a really good job with the Vali 2. I am absolutely blown away with the sound quality even with the stock tubes, especially when used in combination with planar headphones (T50RPmkIII). I know this tube rolling is a slippery slope, so I wonder what kind of improvement or changes to the sound signature one can expect with the 6CG7 tubes. Would you be able to tell us which specific tube Mike has been using? I was planning to order the new production Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 Golds. Honestly though, it's hard to imagine that one can further improve the sound signature of the Vali 2. I guess it's a matter of personal taste at that point.



I recommend taking a look at some nos tubes on EBay. They will likely sound superior to virtually any new issue tube, and they're not expensive. I personally hate the new EH tubes. My two cents. Matsu****a, Sylvania, and Rca is where it's at!


----------



## Tuneslover

tommo21 said:


> Just a few comments regarding tubes. Tubes usually need burn-in at minimum 10-15 hours before they sound their best(NOS/NEW). Some upwards to 50 hours. At each start-up they also usually need 15-30 minutes before they reach good working temperature.
> 
> Also, as my experience tell me with especially 9 pin 6 volt tubes is that the nuances in sound between the different manufacturers and types usually are very small. Don't expect night and day differences between tubes. Then you will be very disappointed.
> 
> ...




You have an Ember and you're thinking of getting a Vali2? I am contemplating a tube amp and thought I would go the Ember route. It would be interesting to hear comparisons between those 2 amps especially with HD650's though.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

One quick comment on the difference between Vali 1&2.I spent just enough time w/Vali 1 to say IMO the Vali 1 is SWEETER in tone & has MORE tube sound(including microphonic ringing & tube rush) than the Vali 2(w/stock tube).I think people buying the Vali2 hoping to hear that tube thing will be disappointed.


----------



## rgmffn

e8armydiver said:


> One quick comment on the difference between Vali 1&2.I spent just enough time w/Vali 1 to say IMO the Vali 1 is SWEETER in tone & has MORE tube sound(including microphonic ringing & tube rush) than the Vali 2(w/stock tube).I think people buying the Vali2 hoping to hear that tube thing will be disappointed.


 

 I have 2 of the org Vali and just LOVE them.  When listening to them (especially since the 2 came out), I keep thinking, how could it sound any better.  While listening, I try to imagine what I would change in the sound.  I can't come up with much.  But..he he, I don't think it's gonna keep me from getting a 2.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Edit to Add:  I have no problems with microphonics.  One of my org Vali I can't hardly even get it to ring.  And reason or not, it sounds slightly better.


----------



## sheldaze

e8armydiver said:


> One quick comment on the difference between Vali 1&2.I spent just enough time w/Vali 1 to say IMO the Vali 1 is SWEETER in tone & has MORE tube sound(including microphonic ringing & tube rush) than the Vali 2(w/stock tube).I think people buying the Vali2 hoping to hear that tube thing will be disappointed.


 
 Fair enough...
  
 I went back to a post I made, a few days ago, before I had the Vali 2 - I could almost summarize by stating that all I truly wanted was a low-impedance Vali, and I got that. I would never have been able to use the original Vali happily with my Grado cans.
  
 However, here's the full wish list from my post:
  

low impedance
a hair more clarity through the amplifier, versus what sounded a little warm, to my ears, on my original Vali
option to roll
lack microphonics
  
 And that's exactly cut-and-paste what I wrote. I am a happy camper - your mileage may vary


----------



## a44100Hz

Can someone tell me what keywords to search for to find relatively inexpensive tubes to play with?


----------



## Astral Abyss

a44100hz said:


> Can someone tell me what keywords to search for to find relatively inexpensive tubes to play with?


 
 "sylvania 6dj8" or "sylvania 6922"  the JAN tubes are great choices.  Sometimes the 7308's can be found for a low price, never hurts to look.
  
 "amperex 6dj8"  that will turn up orange globes, bugle boys, and others.  The A-frames are a great choice, and you can find lots of deals on used bugle boys.
  
 "amperex 6922" will get you into the "PQ" range of tubes, they start getting spendy, but the used ones are sometimes a good deal.


----------



## painted klown

sheldaze said:


> Sorry for crappy picture, but my iPhone is still charging:
> 
> But the words on my tube read as Electra-something, not what looks like Magnavox on your tube. They both say MADE IN USA.
> 
> I have zero tube knowledge


 
  
 Thanks for the info and don't feel bad, I have zero tube knowledge as well, but that's what we're here for, to learn and share in our hobby together! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





bboris77 said:


> I got 2 stock tubes with my Vali 2 (ordered one extra). They are both NOS General Electric 6BZ7 tubes. One of them says Made in USA and the other one says CM which presumably means Canadian-made. They are both obviously NOS but I would not describe them as dirty. Just old


 
 Thank you as well. So shiny and beautiful....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


aamefford said:


> GE 6BZ7 stock tube on mine. Sounds nice, would like something equally detailed, a bit more lush or less treble tilt, same or better bass, price in line with a sub-$200 amp.
> 
> Anyone open a Vali 2 tube rolling thread yet?


 
 And thank you also. I am not sure if anyone has opened an Vali 2 tube rolling thread, but if there is one, please point us in the right direction. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It looks like the GE tube is the most widely used one (for our VERY small batch of people reporting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and I am the odd man out with the Magnavox, that I swear looks dirty and used. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I pulled it out of the amp and took a couple close up pics for everyone to see what I am talking about.
  

 Front looks pretty crappy IMO. Not sure if there is a safe way to try to clean it, or if it's even worth bothering..
  

 The side of it, however, looks great!
  
 And yes, I am wearing rubber gloves to handle the tube. I did the same when I installed it. I heard that if you touch tubes with your bare fingers, then the oils from your skin will lower the life span of the tube. I don't know if there is any truth to that, but I bought the gloves for using during vinyl record cleaning sessions, so I had them laying around anyway. Better safe than sorry I guess...
  
 I am also happy to see more new owners chiming in. Very cool. Please keep all of us updated with your thoughts on this amp! If you will, also please report what your stock tube is, I am just curious to see what everyone received.


----------



## lvince95

a44100hz said:


> Can someone tell me what keywords to search for to find relatively inexpensive tubes to play with?


 
 It depends on how you define inexpensive. For above $50ish per tube go with what abyss mentioned, amperex tubes are well regarded.
  
 For <$50 per tube, look at the current production ones like Electro-Harmonix 6922, JJ 6922, Genalex Gold Lion 6922
  
 Other options, which may not be current production, include Tesla 6922, Matsu-shi-ta PCC88/7DJ8 (7DJ8 should work in 6922 systems as well).


----------



## volly

Let's wet those taste buds...

 Had these for a long time, know I will finally get a chance to use them with the Vali 2 very soon!
  
 Tube heads unite!


----------



## painted klown

volly said:


> Let's wet those taste buds...
> 
> Had these for a long time, know I will finally get a chance to use them with the Vali 2 very soon!
> 
> Tube heads unite!


 
 Very cool! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Please let us know how the Vali 2 takes to rolling. Does rolling significantly alter the sound, or are the changes more subtle?
  
 Inquiring minds want to know!


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

volly said:


> Let's wet those taste buds...
> 
> Had these for a long time, know I will finally get a chance to use them with the Vali 2 very soon!
> 
> Tube heads unite!


 
 12AU7/12AX7/12AT7 will NOT work!


----------



## tommo21

e8armydiver said:


> 12AU7/12AX7/12AT7 will NOT work!


 

 These tubes are 12V tubes. The Vali 2 uses 6V tubes. These will most likely try to draw too much current from your Vali and break it.
  
 All tubes that start with 12 in the name are 12v tubes and don't work in the Vali 2. This also apply for ECC81, ECC82, and ECC83 tubes. DO NOT USE!!!
  
 Bear in mind....all 9-pin tubes are not equivalent. It's much difference in voltage and heater current draw. Also the pins might be wired differently.


----------



## volly

Thanks lads!


----------



## Tunkejazz

tommo21 said:


> These tubes are 12V tubes. The Vali 2 uses 6V tubes. These will most likely try to draw too much current from your Vali and break it.
> 
> All tubes that start with 12 in the name are 12v tubes and don't work in the Vali 2. This also apply for ECC81, ECC82, and ECC83 tubes. DO NOT USE!!!
> 
> Bear in mind....all 9-pin tubes are not equivalent. It's much difference in voltage and heater current draw. Also the pins might be wired differently.



I think there is one of the Russian alternatives (6n2p?) that is similar to the ECC83 but in 6V.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

Frak,never mind!


----------



## lvince95

e8armydiver said:


> Frak,never mind!


 
 It's a good thing that you posted your intentions here before doing it on your own haha


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

Quick Night 2 Update.Amp now has around 25 hours on it.A VERY small bit of the sharpness has disappeared,like the sun is setting low over that snow covered field with bright blue sky overhead I mentioned.Quick trip to the Bay yielded a beautiful,Made in Merica, Matched & Balanced(2350/2350 2400/2400) pair of late 60's 6CG7's for $40.00 delivered!Even with Priority mail shipping I don't expect them for 2 weeks thanks to the holidays.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

Can anyone tell me if the 6EU7 Tube will work?


----------



## SHFT

Would this new Vali 2 pair nice with a Hifiman HE-300? The cans sound already warm would the Vali be 'too much'?
 It would be my first tube amp.


----------



## tomb

a44100hz said:


> Can someone tell me what keywords to search for to find *relatively inexpensive* tubes to play with?


 
  
 The key is those two words above.  You want to keep things in context regarding the cost of this amp and rolling tubes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 A good place to start is Duncan's Tube Data Sheet Locator: http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/.
  
Take a look back at the first post in this thread, or refer to Schiit's data.  The tubes that were mentioned are the following:

6BZ7
ECC88
6922
6DJ8
2492
  
 If you click on "Tube data" under the "Menu" on the link above, you'll get a Query input box.  When you get the "Search results," click on the link under "Designator."  You get the following when you input those numbers above:
  

6BZ7 - Nothing but "Different filament voltage"  (DO NOT USE)
ECC88 - 6DJ8, 6N23P*, CV5358 (Close or identical), 6922, 6922WA, CCA, CV10320, CV2492, CV2493, CV8065, E88CC, E88CC01, ECC868 (Different rating or performance) - You can try all of these.
6922 - 6922WA, CCA, CV10320, CV2492, CV2493, CV8065, E88CC, E88CC01, ECC868 (Close or identical), 6DJ8, 6N23P*, CV5358, ECC88 (Different rating or performance) - You can try all of these.
6DJ8 - ECC88 (Close or identical), 6922, 6922WA, CCA, CV10320, CV2492, CV2493, CV8065, E88CC, E88CC01, ECC868 (Different rating or performance) - You can try all of these.
2492 - This is actually CV2492 and will not work in the search criteria unless you use the "CV." 6922, 6922WA, CCA, CV10320, CV2493, CV8065, E88CC, E88CC01, ECC868 (Close or identical), 6DJ8, 6N23P*, CV5358, ECC88 (Different rating or performance)
  
 Some of this is circular, of course.  You can click on all of those and get the same answers for the others.  TDSL is really a clearinghouse for tube data sheets.  Still, it gives you a pretty good list.  Take one of those numbers and try "6DJ8 tube" for example, as a search string on ebay and see what you get.  I usually append "tube" to the number to keep from getting some weird stuff back.  Some tube listings will be terribly expensive, others will not.  Pretty soon, you should be able to tell what's available and the going rate.  Also search on vacuumtubes.net, vacuumtubesinc.com, thetubecenter.com, and tubedepot.com.  These guys are excellently priced tube dealers and you can get a great idea of the going rate for a particular tube type and brand.  Tube Depot may be a bit more esoteric than the others, but they generally follow the going rate.
  
 Finally, if you want some history of the tubes and their variants, it's hard to beat Brent Jesse Recording & Supply, Inc: audiotubes.com.  Scroll down to his yellow table (with red font) and select, "6DJ8/6922/7308."  Note that 7308 is a new number not included in the list above.  Anyway, you'll get several pages describing each tube in detail, how it sounds, what are the best brands, etc., etc.  He even includes some explanation of the counterfeit Amperex and Bugle Boy tubes and how to tell the difference: 
 Quote from Brent Jesse Recording: 





> 6DJ8: This is the standard incarnation of this tube. It was made both in the USA and in Western Europe. GE and Sylvania both made USA versions, and are fairly good quality. The GE tubes have an RF shield sprayed on inside the glass, making the inside look dark. This is NOT an indication of a burned out or used tube. RCA tubes were often made by either Mullard or Amperex in Britain or Holland. The most popular NOS vintage tubes are those made by Telefunken, Amperex, Siemens or Mullard, and are usually also labelled ECC88. See the next paragraph for this description.
> ECC88:  This is the European designation for the 6DJ8 type tube. It is the same tube as a 6DJ8 and often the tube has both type numbers on it. The popular vintage tubes here are those by Telefunken, Amperex, or Mullard. The Telefunken are said to sound the best, and are the most difficult to find of all of these brands. All Telefunken tubes have a tiny diamond shape molded into the glass on the bottom, and have a very chalky ink on the surface which often is partially wiped off. Beware! These tubes are being reproduced in China, and look like the real thing, complete with diamond mark. The tipoff is the label: the fake labels will not wipe off. The Amperex can be found with a white label and the treble clef logo (rare), the Bugle Boy cartoon tube logo, Amperex in white ink, and the orange world logo. The orange world logo is the newest, and can be found in both standard "L" bracket top getter, and the rarer (and said to sound better) "A" frame top getter. The A-frame looks like a little metal "A" holding up the getter element on the top of the tube internal structure. I have also seen the A frame getter on some Mullard and Genalex (G.E.C.) tubes. The Bugle Boy is the most popular, almost to being a "designer" label, which has driven the price up and supplies down. See note below about Bugle Boy 6DJ8 tubes. I believe any of the Amperex / Philips Holland 1960s and 1970s 6DJ8 tubes are excellent, no matter which one you use. The tubes made with the plain white label (Amperex, DuMont, Hewlett-Packard, Beckman and others but all labelled "Holland") were made in the same factory as the Bugle Boy tubes and sound the same, but are often bargain priced due to low demand. Beware! The Bugle Boy tubes are being reproduced today! The box of the new tubes is even an identical green-and-yellow like the original, but it says "Bugle Boy" on it, and some even show the cartoon tube on the box. Original Amperex tubes NEVER had the words "Bugle Boy", or the cartoon tube, on the box. The Bugle Boy moniker is a slang name that audiophiles coined for the the little cartoon tube on the tube's label. The new tubes have fooled even some seasoned audiophiles! These are junky Chinese made tubes with the old label. The company vending them says they have the original burn-in racks from the old Holland factory. Big deal!! The old burn-in racks are not going to help a crappy tube. Stick with the vintage tubes while you still can!
> Mullard 6DJ8 tubes are excellent as well, but are more difficult to find. They often made 6DJ8 tubes for other labels, like RCA, Zenith, and other USA brands. They have several seams molded into the top of the tube.
> 
> ...


 
  
 There's also some good info at SND Tube Sales - http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6dj8.html.  That's the link for the 6DJ8 tube.  Again, not as much as Brent Jesse's info, but a lot of descriptions of brands, differences between the variants, etc.
  
 Hope that helps.  There's actually even more info out there if you really look.


----------



## Capt369

tomb said:


> The key is those two words above.  You want to keep things in context regarding the cost of this amp and rolling tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 WOW, best post on this website. Thanks tomb


----------



## a44100Hz

Alright, eBay'd some inexpensive 6CG7, ECC88 and CV2454 to play with. I'm sure they'll arrive sometime in 2016


----------



## lvince95

a44100hz said:


> Alright, eBay'd some inexpensive 6CG7, ECC88 and CV2454 to play with. I'm sure they'll arrive sometime in 2016


 
 You might wanna look at trusted retailers (like Kevin from upscale audio for example) or other tube stores. A lot of the tubes sold on Ebay are usually those that don't pass the standards set by the stores and get passed onto Ebay sellers. If you still wanna buy from Ebay, then buy from the highly rated sellers to minimize your chances of getting lesser quality tubes.


----------



## a44100Hz

lvince95 said:


> You might wanna look at trusted retailers (like Kevin from upscale audio for example) or other tube stores. A lot of the tubes sold on Ebay are usually those that don't pass the standards set by the stores and get passed onto Ebay sellers. If you still wanna buy from Ebay, then buy from the highly rated sellers to minimize your chances of getting lesser quality tubes.




Thanks for the info. The tubes I purchased are all <$15 so I'm buying them for the learning experience more than anything else. I'll branch out later once I've toyed with rolling and read more about it.


----------



## jaywillin

i've bought a ton of tubes from Mercedesman
 http://stores.ebay.com/TUBEHUNTER?_trksid=p2047675.l2563


----------



## painted klown

A* LOT* of really good info being shared ITT.
 Thank you to ALL who are chiming in with advice and information. It really is appreciated, and helps us new tube users out tremendously. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have been enjoying my Vali 2 a lot this weekend. I have been on a classical music kick all weekend and am amazed at the this little amps ability to draw me into the music, and connect me on an emotional level.
  
 I have discovered that listening to something great gives me a a pattern of getting sucked in, then stopping just to revel in the music, reaching to turn it up, getting even more sucked in, turning up some more, etc. I have noticed this pattern for years with myself, with all types of music and gear. "Feeling" the music is what it's all about for me, and this amp allows me to do just that. The Vali 2 and HD-650 has me in this pattern all the time. It's a good sign to me.


----------



## Astral Abyss

lvince95 said:


> It depends on how you define inexpensive. For above $50ish per tube go with what abyss mentioned, amperex tubes are well regarded.
> 
> For <$50 per tube, look at the current production ones like Electro-Harmonix 6922, JJ 6922, Genalex Gold Lion 6922
> 
> Other options, which may not be current production, include Tesla 6922, Matsu-shi-ta PCC88/7DJ8 (7DJ8 should work in 6922 systems as well).


 
  
 Just to be clear, the tube searches I mentioned, when done on ebay, will turn up tons of tubes in different conditions, singles/doubles, NOS/used, etc.  You can spend less than $50, or less than $25 of some of them, if you look around and make a few bids.  It's not difficult at all.  The tube may not be NOS, but it doesn't really matter.  All that should really matter is that the output levels are fairly well matched and that the outputs are well above the minimums.  I don't recommend ever buying a tube that doesn't list the measured output levels and the minimum good number ratings for that tester, and preferably the the tester type used.
  
 Just remember to stick to your maximum price you're willing to pay when bidding.  Alternatively, you can go for the buy it now sellers.
  
 Here's some listings to give you an idea what I'm talking about:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ECC88-HOLLAND-6DJ8-TIGHT-MATCH-PAIR-A-FRAME-DIMPLE-GETR-TEST-NOS-/231789158032?hash=item35f7b5de90:g:zN8AAOSwT5tWPVqS
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-Dimpled-Disc-Getter-VACUUM-TUBES-HOLLAND-5-906-/231704366048?hash=item35f2a80be0:g:T4sAAOSw4HVWCfKK
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Bugle-Boy-6DJ8-ECC-88-Holland-/272078422910?hash=item3f5923437e:g:66EAAOSw~otWcMgv
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Bugle-Boy-6DJ8-ECC88-tube-Holland-Test-NOS-/201480201372?hash=item2ee927e49c:g:0kAAAOSwAKxWZNGt
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sylvania-6DJ8-ECC88-Tube-Very-Strong-Balanced-Results-12-600-11-900-/181951724731?hash=item2a5d2afcbb:g:G74AAOSwqu9VTDHO
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-JHS-6922-E88CC-6DJ8-TRIPLE-MICA-TUBES-AMPLITREX-TESTED-1960s-3-MICA-/231722743645?hash=item35f3c0775d:g:4XUAAOSw5ZBWITAN
  
 That took me around 10 minutes and there's 100's more at those prices.


----------



## painted klown

Astral Abyss, 
  
 Thanks for the help and tips for tube shopping. My biggest fear with e-bay is the possibility of getting fake/bootleg tubes. Do you find this to be an issue when shopping on there?
  
 The reason I mention it is because I have seen some websites claim "Buy from us so you know you're getting the real deal" type stuff. I know fakes exist with every product, and the seller may not even know they have a fake, so it makes it very difficult to know, unless one is well versed in spotting knock offs. 
  
 I used to collect Criterion DVD & BD discs. Over the years, I became VERY good at spotting bootleg discs from just looking at them. When I sold off my collection, I was actually helping others (who ere building their collections) to learn what to look for, and how to spot fakes on the web. 
  
 In fact, I had one seller who initially became angry with me when I advised him that his copy of John Woo's "The Killer" was indeed a fake (I had contacted him about purchasing it to begin with, due to the price). I told him what to look for, he then went and researched it, got back to me, and apologized as he didn't even know he was selling a bootleg copy. Sometimes (but not always) there are sellers who "know" their product is legit, but in all actuality, they just don't know any better...
  
 As I am not adept at spotting fake tubes, I worry about getting ripped off. Either intentionally, or simply because the seller doesn't know the difference any more than I do.


----------



## jaywillin

painted klown said:


> Astral Abyss,
> 
> Thanks for the help and tips for tube shopping. My biggest fear with e-bay is the possibility of* getting fake/bootleg* tubes. Do you find this to be an issue when shopping on there?
> 
> ...


 
 i stick with sellers with good feedback really, and i'd be wary of a "price too good to be true"  they usually are you know
 message with the sellers, ask questions, most are eager to share knowledge , give advice, as far as the vali 2 goes, being it uses the same tube as the lyr, check the lyr tube rolling thread, great info there, the guys are super there


----------



## Astral Abyss

painted klown said:


> Astral Abyss,
> 
> Thanks for the help and tips for tube shopping. My biggest fear with e-bay is the possibility of getting fake/bootleg tubes. Do you find this to be an issue when shopping on there?
> 
> ...


 
  
 There are fakes out there, definitely.  Also plenty of people who don't know how to check tubes properly.  You can buy from the known vendors on ebay if you want to be safe about it.  Nothing wrong with that.  I linked to a couple. (tubemuseum and tubestore) Their prices are fair and you will know you're getting a legit tube, and they usually offer satisfation guarantees.  I'm always leery of anyone who won't take a tube back that you're not happy with.  Unless the price is low and I just feel like taking a chance.
  
 Eventually, just like with your disc collection, you will be able to more easily spot fakes and questionable tubes.  Also, if you see an auction you're interested in, PM for advice on it.  We'll be glad to help.
  
 I post on the Lyr tube rollers thread as well and there is some very good info to be had there.  Worth reading.  A lot of those guys are into the expensive tubes, but they have tons of great info and knowledge.  They've helped me greatly.


----------



## Makiah S

sheldaze said:


> I agree with what others have had to say - it will be hard to tell, your tastes and if you will like the tube sound from the Vali 2. However:
> 
> 
> Vali 2 will have zero issues with the cans you have listed - no impedance mismatch problems. My Grado headphones are low impedance, and I really dug the sound: m9XX > Vali 2 > SR60i
> I would not recommend the Vali 2 (or any tube amplifier) for use with the Fostex TH-X00. This is such a lush sounding headphone, by its nature, such that no additives are necessary or in my opinion helpful. This is quite different from an impedance mismatch issue, or a softening of the treble or bass - the Vali 2 does not do those things. But it is still a tube. The TH-X00 sounds great from a sharp, solid-state, low impedance source. Your Asgard 2 likely sounds fantastic with this headphone. I'm currently using it straight from my Grace Design m9XX into the TH-X00 cans.


 
 Honestly, I kinda like the sound of the TH X00 with the Vali 2, though I have Alpha Pads which give the TH X00 a drier sound than staock pads


----------



## crossfire

i wonder if anyone have any comparisons between the garage1217 amps vs the vali2?


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

mshenay said:


> Honestly, I kinda like the sound of the TH X00 with the Vali 2, though I have Alpha Pads which give the TH X00 a drier sound than staock pads


 
 I have to agree with your assessment.Read my comments farther back.This is NOT a syrupy,rolled off amp.I would be willing to bet Pinks this amp would sound KILLER with Senn 650's or other "lush"sounding cans!


----------



## Tuneslover

crossfire said:


> i wonder if anyone have any comparisons between the garage1217 amps vs the vali2?



Indeed, I too would be interested in hearing people's comparisons of these two excellent designers and manufacturers products.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I dunno who says tubes can't work with warmer, lusher headphones. My old Lyr + LCD-2 (pre-fazor) was absolutely godlike. I"m wondering if an EL-8 + Vali 2 will be kind of a mini version of that.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

someguydude said:


> I dunno who says tubes can't work with warmer, lusher headphones. My old Lyr + LCD-2 (pre-fazor) was absolutely godlike. I"m wondering if an EL-8 + Vali 2 will be kind of a mini version of that.


 
 The problem is many cheap tube amps do sound syrupy & rolled off which is a REAL bad match with lush sounding cans.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

e8armydiver said:


> The problem is many cheap tube amps do sound syrupy & rolled off which is a REAL bad match with lush sounding cans.


 
  
 Fair point. I admit all I've heard is the Schiit line as far as tubes go.


----------



## Makiah S

crossfire said:


> i wonder if anyone have any comparisons between the garage1217 amps vs the vali2?


 
  
 Ehm I can help you with that! I have the Starlight from 1217 an the Vali 2, an
  
 the Starlight is POWERFUL, with stock tubes it adds a nice HEFT of sub bass, very SOLID low end the kind that REALLY makes the drums KICK, aside from that really powerful bass the mids an treble are fairly clean
  
 The Vali 2 is a little different, it's got a nice touch of warmth to the mid range, which dips into the mid bass just a touch, so you get thicker vocals an guitars an a very beautiful upper mid range as well! 
  
 Build quality though is better on the Starlight, in addition the starlight is also a blacker with a finer volume adjustment [oh an the Vali 2 TINKS when u plug ur headphones in] 
  
 both have good sound stage, with adequate depth, good layering an width how ever, I do find the Vali 2 to have a quick dynamic shift 
  
 So really :/ it's a tough call they are both excellent amps 
  
 Oh I will say there is SOME EDM that does NOT play well with the Starlight an the Th X00 xD bass get's like WHOA that's A LOT to quick 
  


e8armydiver said:


> I have to agree with your assessment.Read my comments farther back.This is NOT a syrupy,rolled off amp.I would be willing to bet Pinks this amp would sound KILLER with Senn 650's or other "lush"sounding cans!


 
  
  


e8armydiver said:


> The problem is many cheap tube amps do sound syrupy & rolled off which is a REAL bad match with lush sounding cans.


 
 yea, though now a days it seems there's less an less of those.


----------



## mysticstryk

mshenay said:


> Ehm I can help you with that! I have the Starlight from 1217 an the Vali 2, an
> 
> the Starlight is POWERFUL, with stock tubes it adds a nice HEFT of sub bass, very SOLID low end the kind that REALLY makes the drums KICK, aside from that really powerful bass the mids an treble are fairly clean
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you heard either of these amps with the hd650?  I'm trying to decide between the Starlight and Vali 2 myself.  I believe the Starlight has more tube rolling options though too, if I'm correct?


----------



## Makiah S

mysticstryk said:


> Have you heard either of these amps with the hd650?  I'm trying to decide between the Starlight and Vali 2 myself.  I believe the Starlight has more tube rolling options though too, if I'm correct?


 
 No sadly I've not, :/
  
 I'll put it to you this way
  
 If you've owned a tube amp an your into the "tube" hobby grab the Starlight, an be ready to adjust your bais daily, an try at least like 10 tubes in a week to find the right one! Oh an don't forget about rolling the Op Amps to  you'll need to customize that to once you find the right tube!
  
 If you  have not owned a tube amp, an you've never rolled tubes or op amps an your not crazy about having a small collection of tubes, go with the Vali 2 
  
 Really in all honesty the Schiit Vali 2 is to Hybrid Tubes what the iPhone is to Smart phones, an the Starlight 2 would be the LG V10 
  
 With one, you NEED to customize it to get the VERY BEST out of it, an it's a heck of a great amp to tinker with! The other, if you NEVER changed a thing it would still be an awesome value 
  
 The Starlight demands that you customize an tinker with it to reach it's best,
 the Vali 2 has options to build on an already established base 
  
 That said, if your willing to put in the time an money needed to find the right combination of tubes op Amps an gain settings,  the Starlight will out shine the Vali 2,
 if how ever you lack time, or just want a simpler amp to own an operate than the Vali 2 will suit you better 
  
 These are like legit an apple vs android kind of face off imo


----------



## mysticstryk

mshenay said:


> No sadly I've not, :/
> 
> I'll put it to you this way
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks!  I already have a "it just works" amp in the Magni 2 Uber.  Though I've never owned a tube amp so that does seem like a daunting procedure for the Starlight.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

Let me ask you guys this.I have enough experience with tubes to doubt that tube rolling is going to warm the Vali 2 up enough for my taste.Is there an ALL Tube(will except SS Rectification)that would be satisfy my needs between the price of the Vali 2 & Valahalla 2?I've been looking at this    
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





      $225.00 amp all night but there's ZERO intel on it's build quality or sound.One thing I do know is I have on hand a 1953 Mullard/Blackburn 12AX7 with Long Ribbed Plates & perfectly balanced Triodes along with a Perfectly Matched & Balanced pair of Mullard Brimar/Blackburn 6v6GT's from an old amp & buddy those tubes were made on Mt.Olympus & would plug right in to it.Maybe I should keep the Vali2 & upgrade my cans to LCD-2's or HE-560's?AHHHHHHHHHH!


----------



## Makiah S

mysticstryk said:


> Thanks!  I already have a "it just works" amp in the Magni 2 Uber.  Though I've never owned a tube amp so that does seem like a daunting procedure for the Starlight.


 
 It's really not actually, you'll need a set of Jewelers screws to adjust the bais, an it actually has a LED indicator to let you know when the Bias is right for each side! With my first Hybrid tube I had to use a multi meter to balance the Bias xD I stayed up all night trying to get the dang thing workin 
  
 an the Tubes just slip into their socket, the same with the Op Amps


----------



## Makiah S

e8armydiver said:


> Let me ask you guys this.I have enough experience with tubes to doubt that tube rolling is going to warm the Vali 2 up enough for my taste.Is there an ALL Tube(will except SS Rectification)that would be satisfy my needs between the price of the Vali 2 & Valahalla 2?I've been looking at this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hifimans not really a "warm" sounding can any more imo, the HE 500 or LCD 2 would be the warmer cans to go with
  
 additionally, the Vali 2 should be able to take a 12AX7 Mullard, I've had the pleasure of listening to them an they are really very sweet an warm! Imo


----------



## mysticstryk

mshenay said:


> It's really not actually, you'll need a set of Jewelers screws to adjust the bais, an it actually has a LED indicator to let you know when the Bias is right for each side! With my first Hybrid tube I had to use a multi meter to balance the Bias xD I stayed up all night trying to get the dang thing workin
> 
> an the Tubes just slip into their socket, the same with the Op Amps


 
  
 Oh, well if it is really that easy, I don't mind the little bit of extra work.  How much power does the Starlight feed into a 300ohm headphone versus the Vali 2?


----------



## Makiah S

mysticstryk said:


> Oh, well if it is really that easy, I don't mind the little bit of extra work.  How much power does the Starlight feed into a 300ohm headphone versus the Vali 2?


 
 Roughly 125 mW, 
  
 Vali 2 does about 250
  
 Power is a tricky spot, the Starlight 2 has more output around 64ohms than the Vali 2, otherwise the Vali 2 has more power on tap
  
 so it seems in terms of power  the Vali 2 is going to do a little better with High Impedance Cans an Orthos than the Starlight, how ever with Low Impedance headphones the Starlight is much blacker an does a better job


----------



## mysticstryk

mshenay said:


> Roughly 125 mW,
> 
> Vali 2 does about 250
> 
> ...


 
  
 How can I tell what the Garage1217 amps power in mW is?  Their website has it all listed as vrms, which I'm not familiar with.


----------



## Capt369

I have an Asgard 2 and an considering getting the valid 2 as a complimentary amp. Does anyone have both and can give an opinion on the sound difference? If adding the valid would be a sideways move, I'll just save toward another set of hp's.
  
 Current cans,,,th-xoo...x2...he400s...m50.


----------



## Makiah S

mysticstryk said:


> How can I tell what the Garage1217 amps power in mW is?  Their website has it all listed as vrms, which I'm not familiar with.


 
 I got a User Manual with mine that had them listed depending on the Restiance, you have set 
  
 I assure you I pulled those numbers right from the user Manual, you guys can also shoot Jeremy an Email right from their web site, he's very nice an he'd be happy to either answer direct questions about power or share the Manuals with u
  
 For teh Garage 1217 amps, it seems their Project Ember has the best Power Output, though it's around $300 
  
 Though for Under $200, I'm going to say the Vali 2 does a better job with hard to drive cans, like my HE 4


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

mshenay said:


> the Vali 2 should be able to take a 12AX7 Mullard


 
 The guys in the know here say 12AX7 is a 12v Tube & will NOT work in the Vali which uses 6v tubes.


----------



## mysticstryk

mshenay said:


> I got a User Manual with mine that had them listed depending on the Restiance, you have set
> 
> I assure you I pulled those numbers right from the user Manual, you guys can also shoot Jeremy an Email right from their web site, he's very nice an he'd be happy to either answer direct questions about power or share the Manuals with u
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for all your help, I'll shoot Jeremy an email if I can't find their manuals online.


----------



## Makiah S

e8armydiver said:


> The guys in the know here say 12AX7 is a 12v Tube & will NOT work in the Vali which uses 6v tubes.


 
 Oh... well shame on me 
  
 schiit that's good to know


----------



## i20bot

mysticstryk said:


> Thanks for all your help, I'll shoot Jeremy an email if I can't find their manuals online.


 
 I'd just go for the Ember II.  Delivers way more power at 300ohms at up to 725mw.  Plus it has auto bias so you don't have to tinker with that like the Starlight.  Just plop tubes in.  Also Ember II can't roll opamp so you don't have to worry about that either, unless you want to.  If you don't want to spend that much or rather want more things to tinker with then I'd go for Ember II.  Was thinking I should have gone for an Ember II instead because I have the Project Polaris and now the Vali 2.  Maybe I should have combined them both into Ember II lol.  But then I kinda rather just have a simple clean looking setup in the Schiit stack and be done.  Then just roll couple tubes.  This stuff is getting out of hand!  Then at times I just want an all in one amp, dac and speaker amp all in one.  Ahhhh.


----------



## mysticstryk

i20bot said:


> I'd just go for the Ember II.  Delivers way more power at 300ohms at up to 725mw.  Plus it has auto bias so you don't have to tinker with that like the Starlight.  Just plop tubes in.  Also Ember II can't roll opamp so you don't have to worry about that either, unless you want to.  If you don't want to spend that much or rather want more things to tinker with then I'd go for Ember II.  Was thinking I should have gone for an Ember II instead because I have the Project Polaris and now the Vali 2.  Maybe I should have combined them both into Ember II lol.  But then I kinda rather just have a simple clean looking setup in the Schiit stack and be done.  Then just roll couple tubes.  This stuff is getting out of hand!  Then at times I just want an all in one amp, dac and speaker amp all in one.  Ahhhh.


 
  
 Lol, I feel your pain.  The thing is I've never owned a tube amp, so spending $350 on an unknown entity is hard to swallow.  Whereas the $170 of the Vali 2 is perfect, but it doesn't have the options that Garage1217 amps have in terms of tube rolling.  Between the Starlight and the Vali 2, it seems that for hard to drive headphones, the Vali 2 is the clear winner.


----------



## sheldaze

mshenay said:


> Honestly, I kinda like the sound of the TH X00 with the Vali 2, though I have Alpha Pads which give the TH X00 a drier sound than staock pads


 


e8armydiver said:


> I have to agree with your assessment.Read my comments farther back.This is NOT a syrupy,rolled off amp.I would be willing to bet Pinks this amp would sound KILLER with Senn 650's or other "lush"sounding cans!


 


someguydude said:


> I dunno who says tubes can't work with warmer, lusher headphones. My old Lyr + LCD-2 (pre-fazor) was absolutely godlike. I"m wondering if an EL-8 + Vali 2 will be kind of a mini version of that.


 
 Yeah, I can only (re)post what I heard:
  

Between m9xx and m9xx > Vali 2, I preferred just the m9xx with my stock *Fostex TH-X00*. I feel no need to add anything to these headphones - just love em'.
However, I loved the Vali 2 on my *Sennheiser HD650* headphones. I also loved it on my AKG K7XX and Grado SR60i.
The Vali 2 is _not_ syrupy, and for me this is an issue on my *Audeze EL-8C* headphones. I like something a little syrupy or just extremely powerful to help the bass compensate for the forward nature of these headphones, which I do not like. Due to my personal pickiness, I've only been running my EL-8C on Chord Mojo, Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon, and Schiit Ragnarok.
  
 I will be following this thread though, and hoping to find a super sloppy, syrupy tube, to give the EL-8C a retry.


----------



## tommo21

sheldaze said:


> Yeah, I can only (re)post what I heard:
> 
> 
> Between m9xx and m9xx > Vali 2, I preferred just the m9xx with my stock *Fostex TH-X00*. I feel no need to add anything to these headphones - just love em'.
> ...


 
 Go for a Mullard or Brimar:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC88-MULLARD-UK-6DJ8-NEW-OLD-STOCK-VALVE-TUBE-O15-/391282609633?hash=item5b1a42cde1:g:ZxUAAOSwdvpWD75K
  
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC88-CV5358-BRIMAR-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-/310087990709?hash=item4832af3db5:gcoAAOSwDNdV5rdt


----------



## bigro

I have had the Vali 2 for a few days now and some have asked for a Valhalla 2 and Vali 2 comparison. I have been using it in my 2 channel setup in place of the Valhalla 2 as a pre amp. It is an incredible little amp. Being that I am running different tubes on the Valhalla It is hard to compare the little details so I will try to keep to the broader strokes if you will. Keep In Mind no HP's here, 2 Channel Speakers is my weapon of choice
  
 The Vali 2 Is the little amp that could. Once the tubes have had about 20 hours on them start to take on the form of its big brother the Valhalla 2. Make no mistake I am not saying it is a Valhalla replacement. The Valhalla Is Happily reconnected to the Bimby. I only had time to do a Few tube rolls. The Vali 2 Is really good and it is apparent the same mad scientists that brought us the Valhalla put the Vali 2 together. I Will try to keep this brief.
  
 Did I have to double check to see which amp was plugged in? No. I have been running he Valhalla in its current config for a while and I am very familiar with the way it sounds. With that being said The Vali 2 is no slouch so do not take this as it is inferior. The Vali 2 is less than half the price of the Valhalla2 but it is no way half the amp. The Vali 2 Has a slightly smaller sound stage and to me the phantom image was a bit more forward than in the Valhalla 2 .Is the Phantom image being forward bad? not to me but in reality could probably changed by speaker adjustments. Welcome to 2 channel. I found that the Bass Impact was there just not that of the Valhalla 2. One more difference is that the placement of instruments was slightly less discernable than with the Valhalla.
  
  "The all-new Vali 2 is a great way to get started with tube sound, without needing a second mortgage! " That is in the Description of the Vali 2 on the schiit website and it is spot on. It sounds remarkably close to the Valhalla which is an accomplishment in itself. If you were hoping this is a cheap Valhalla, I would say it is. But size and design differences as well as cost means, as expected it is no replacement. There I said it. A Valhalla Replacement it is not. Schiit did not set that Expectation and I concur. that does not mean I hate it. Just like the Modi 2 U being a like a Mini Bifrost, this is like a Mini Valhalla. I am super excited , I am on vacation today and want go work and set it up in its' final home replacing the Vali 1 and even get work done just to listen to it more. This is Money well spent. Sure we can argue that other entry level amps have more options and may sound better. But when you start stepping up into the $300 mark for an amp its not a fair comparison to the Vali 2 that is sub $ 200.
  
  
 Edit.
  
 The setup.
 Foobar 2k--> Win 7 laptop--> Wyrd--> Bifrost Multibit--> Vali2/Valhalla2 --> Emotiva Fusion Flex Amplifier --> Elac B6 and a PSB 8" Subwoofer. (Sub level not adjusted through out the comparison)


----------



## Astral Abyss

capt369 said:


> I have an Asgard 2 and an considering getting the valid 2 as a complimentary amp. Does anyone have both and can give an opinion on the sound difference? If adding the valid would be a sideways move, I'll just save toward another set of hp's.
> 
> Current cans,,,th-xoo...x2...he400s...m50.


 
  
 You could always use the Vali 2 as a preamp into your Asgard.


----------



## Makiah S

i20bot said:


> I'd just go for the Ember II.  Delivers way more power at 300ohms at up to 725mw.  Plus it has auto bias so you don't have to tinker with that like the Starlight.  Just plop tubes in.  Also Ember II can't roll opamp so you don't have to worry about that either, unless you want to.  If you don't want to spend that much or rather want more things to tinker with then I'd go for Ember II.  Was thinking I should have gone for an Ember II instead because I have the Project Polaris and now the Vali 2.  Maybe I should have combined them both into Ember II lol.  But then I kinda rather just have a simple clean looking setup in the Schiit stack and be done.  Then just roll couple tubes.  This stuff is getting out of hand!  Then at times I just want an all in one amp, dac and speaker amp all in one.  Ahhhh.


 
  
  


mysticstryk said:


> Lol, I feel your pain.  The thing is I've never owned a tube amp, so spending $350 on an unknown entity is hard to swallow.  Whereas the $170 of the Vali 2 is perfect, but it doesn't have the options that Garage1217 amps have in terms of tube rolling.  Between the Starlight and the Vali 2, it seems that for hard to drive headphones, the Vali 2 is the clear winner.


 
 Yea as great as the Ember II is, it's not in the same price class as the Vali 2 or the Starlight, an imo it would make a great upgrade to either the Starlight or the Vali 2, as it out powers both an offers the same level of tube exploration as the Starlight with the Auto Features of the Vali 2 [an a tad more power]
  


tommo21 said:


> Go for a Mullard or Brimar:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC88-MULLARD-UK-6DJ8-NEW-OLD-STOCK-VALVE-TUBE-O15-/391282609633?hash=item5b1a42cde1:g:ZxUAAOSwdvpWD75K
> 
> ...


 
 Yea Mullards for sure, I owned a SET TWO of them thank you xD with my Millet Hybrid Tube, they were SUPER warm an LUSH 
  
 I think that would get you the sound your wanting, I enjoyed the Mullards with my DT 990 for a time


----------



## Makiah S

bigro said:


> I have had the Vali 2 for a few days now and some have asked for a Valhalla 2 and Vali 2 comparison. I have been using it in my 2 channel setup in place of the Valhalla 2 as a pre amp. It is an incredible little amp. Being that I am running different tubes on the Valhalla It is hard to compare the little details so I will try to keep to the broader strokes if you will. Keep In Mind no HP's here, 2 Channel Speakers is my weapon of choice
> 
> Channel. I found that the Bass Impact was there just not that of the Valhalla 2. One more difference is that the placement of instruments was slightly less discernable than with the Valhalla.
> . This is Money well spent. Sure we can argue that other entry level amps have more options and may sound better. But when you start stepping up into the $300 mark for an amp its not a fair comparison to the Vali 2 that is sub $ 200.


 
 Oh nice, it's good to hear a speaker review for this tube! 
  
 An I agree, the Vali 2 is a great way to get into tubes, though once you start rolling you might need some extra cash lol


----------



## i20bot

mysticstryk said:


> Lol, I feel your pain.  The thing is I've never owned a tube amp, so spending $350 on an unknown entity is hard to swallow.  Whereas the $170 of the Vali 2 is perfect, but it doesn't have the options that Garage1217 amps have in terms of tube rolling.  Between the Starlight and the Vali 2, it seems that for hard to drive headphones, the Vali 2 is the clear winner.


 
 Yeah, but once after you get the Vali 2 you're like, hmmmm maybe I should have gotten the other amp instead, lol.  But yeah, Vali 2 has good power to drive a lot of headphones at a nice price.


----------



## jlangholzj

bigro said:


> A Valhalla Replacement it is not.


----------



## Makiah S

i20bot said:


> Yeah, but once after you get the Vali 2 you're like, hmmmm maybe I should have gotten the other amp instead, lol.  But yeah, Vali 2 has good power to drive a lot of headphones at a nice price.


 
 yea for higher ohm'd headphones an ortho's the Vali 2 would be a better option for amping, though for low impedance cans, like Grado, ATH or Fostex the Starlight is the way to go


----------



## bigro

jlangholzj said:


>


 
  
   
 

  
  
 HA. I almost fell off the couch I was laughing so hard..


----------



## Makiah S

hehehe nicely done man


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

Ladies & gentleman 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.....Announcing the fight of the year.In this corner the Schiit Audio Vali 2. The contender I have found is designed & built by the genius behind the MiniWatt Tube amplifier that has taken the SET Home Stereo crowd by storm!The APPJ Audio PA1502A amp is a SS Rectified(if you've ever lost an amp to a bad rec.tube you'll be glad as I am for this),Auto Biasing,Class A Single Ended Triode(12AX7)front end driving a pair of Triode Strapped,6v6 Power Tubes!The amp is TRANSFORMER COUPLED with NO offset DC & NO caps in the output path!Power Transformers are Japanese Z-11 Steel & have a quoted power outout of 18v PtP.!We are talking the same HEAVY DUTY transformers like I have in my EL34 driven Integrated Amp!This little sucker is also a heavyweight compared to the 1lb.Vali2 weighing in at a whopping 4lbs.6ozs!Since this is a Transformer Coupled Amp it should have no problem driving low impedance cans & is rated to drive an 8-600 ohm load!.Priced at $221.00 Including DHL Shipping it is a bit more than the Schiit.which is $183.00 Delivered.Actual Fight Date TBA.A few stolen pics to wet your appetite.


----------



## mithrandir38

mshenay said:


> yea for higher ohm'd headphones an ortho's the Vali 2 would be a better option for amping, though for low impedance cans, like Grado, ATH or Fostex the Starlight is the way to go


 Although the starlight has adjustable output impedance, likely making it a better fit for high impedance cans like the hd650, etc.


----------



## bigro

mshenay said:


> yea for higher ohm'd headphones an ortho's the Vali 2 would be a better option for amping, though for low impedance cans, like Grado, ATH or Fostex the Starlight is the way to go


 
 I am curious as to why this is the case? The PSB M4U1 is 32 Ohms and on low Gain and with the Volume turned all the way up the Vali 2 is dead silent.


----------



## bigro

I am back at work and had a little time to compare the Vali1 vs. Vali 2.
  
 I listened to the Vali 2 for most of the morning. Then got the Vali 1 all warmed up and switched back and forth. and here is my opinion.
 The Vali 2 sounds more open. There is more texture overall and Vocals have more impact and body. Overall the Vali 2 brings out more definition and detail. Instrument separation is better and even guitar string pluck seemed more discernible. The Vali 1 sounded a little flat compared to the the Vali 2.  Tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing. Even though I powered the Amps Down before switching cables. That Vali1 whined a little.Tiiiiiiiiiiing.  I have yet to hear any microphonics from the Vali 2.
  
 I still like the Vali 1, But so is the case with upgrades. Just because there is a New Corvette does not mean the old one is now defective or inferior. I am just Happy that the Vali is not corvette priced.
  
 Vali 1 will probably be re purposed to a wireless set of senns I use at home so I can catch up on the world news and watching some tv shows on the weekend without waking the wife up at 4:30 in the morning. Or My Buddy that inherited My Original Modi may get a present.


----------



## jfoxvol

Yeah. The Vali is like that crazy ex gf. Yeah she is microphonic and she is noisy. But she did things other girlfriends didn't. So you stuck around. Then Vali 2 rolls around. She's got a job and her own place. She's responsible. And none of the problems. Sometimes tho. Ya still miss the fun of the last one. I know this is a ridiculous analogy. I absolutely adore the Vali 2 and am listening through it now. It is a marked improvement. I think the stock tube is fantastic. I do still ever so slightly yearn for the tonality of the Vali 1. Not much. But some. Perhaps now rolling some tubes will give me more options. I see an RCA 6CG7 in my near future.


----------



## bigro

jfoxvol said:


> Yeah. The Vali is like that crazy ex gf. Yeah she is microphonic and she is noisy. But she did things other girlfriends didn't. So you stuck around. Then Vali 2 rolls around. She's got a job and her own place. She's responsible. And none of the problems. Sometimes tho. Ya still miss the fun of the last one. I know this is a ridiculous analogy. I absolutely adore the Vali 2 and am listening through it now. It is a marked improvement. I think the stock tube is fantastic. I do still ever so slightly yearn for the tonality of the Vali 1. Not much. But some. Perhaps now rolling some tubes will give me more options. I see an RCA 6CG7 in my near future.


 
 Hmm Let me get this straight
  
 Vali 1= Crazy Ex that was a sometimes outspoken a little frumpy and may scare the timid a little, but always up for a good time.
 Vali 2= Current affiliation. Soft spoken and clearly well mannered. Well put together and you can take her home to mom.
  
 So now your mission is to take the Vali 2 and ditch the glasses and wine,  Put a beer in her hand and see what happens?


----------



## jfoxvol

I was thinking maybe an old single malt.


----------



## bigro




----------



## jlangholzj

bigro said:


> Hmm Let me get this straight
> 
> Vali 1= Crazy Ex that was a sometimes outspoken a little frumpy and may scare the timid a little, but always up for a good time.
> Vali 2= Current affiliation. Soft spoken and clearly well mannered. Well put together and you can take her home to mom.
> ...


 

  The difference between "good girls" and "bad girls" is that good girls choose who they're bad with......
  
 On that note, I did in fact scrounge together a list of possible candidates. Some of which I'm not 100% on. This is just kind of a random musing from my end of things that might be worth checking into for any of you folks that may have multiple tubes laying around. I thought that it was said somewhere that mr. moffat was using the 6n1p and rather liked it. I think fox tried that and found it to run a bit hot. With that in mind I think the 6n6p probably draws over what would be comfortable with heater current but i had it on the list as a "maybe". Same goes for the 7au7, much in performance to the 12au7 but works off of 7v heaters....which a 6.3v heater is within the usual 10% figure I've seen thrown around.
  
 Again, this is by NO MEANS a list of things you can do but there's a few of you here that are interested in rolling (and a few that are probably a slight bit more knowledgeable) and I wouldn't mind stirring up a bit on conversation on possible candidates.


----------



## jfoxvol

jlangholzj said:


> The difference between "good girls" and "bad girls" is that good girls choose who they're bad with......
> 
> On that note, I did in fact scrounge together a list of possible candidates. Some of which I'm not 100% on. This is just kind of a random musing from my end of things that might be worth checking into for any of you folks that may have multiple tubes laying around. I thought that it was said somewhere that mr. moffat was using the 6n1p and rather liked it. I think fox tried that and found it to run a bit hot. With that in mind I think the 6n6p probably draws over what would be comfortable with heater current but i had it on the list as a "maybe". Same goes for the 7au7, much in performance to the 12au7 but works off of 7v heaters....which a 6.3v heater is within the usual 10% figure I've seen thrown around.
> 
> Again, this is by NO MEANS a list of things you can do but there's a few of you here that are interested in rolling (and a few that are probably a slight bit more knowledgeable) and I wouldn't mind stirring up a bit on conversation on possible candidates.


 
 Mike liked the 6CG7.  Jason said that 6n1P would work.  I tried the latter.  Mehhh.  Much thinner sounding.  Noisier.  And like a 6N1P, hot to the touch like the business end of a crack pipe.  I plan to grab an Electroharmonix 6CG7 repro first.  Also a 6922.  Maybe a JJ.  Rolling is easier and way cheaper with A tube


----------



## Makiah S

mithrandir38 said:


> Although the starlight has adjustable output impedance, likely making it a better fit for high impedance cans like the hd650, etc.


 
 Well the starlight maxs out at around 600mW into like 60 ohms, at 300 ohms the Vali 2 still has more power on tap 
  


jlangholzj said:


> The difference between "good girls" and "bad girls" is that good girls choose who they're bad with......
> 
> On that note, I did in fact scrounge together a list of possible candidates. Some of which I'm not 100% on. This is just kind of a random musing from my end of things that might be worth checking into for any of you folks that may have multiple tubes laying around. I thought that it was said somewhere that mr. moffat was using the 6n1p and rather liked it. I think fox tried that and found it to run a bit hot. With that in mind I think the 6n6p probably draws over what would be comfortable with heater current but i had it on the list as a "maybe". Same goes for the 7au7, much in performance to the 12au7 but works off of 7v heaters....which a 6.3v heater is within the usual 10% figure I've seen thrown around.
> 
> Again, this is by NO MEANS a list of things you can do but there's a few of you here that are interested in rolling (and a few that are probably a slight bit more knowledgeable) and I wouldn't mind stirring up a bit on conversation on possible candidates.


 
 Nice list 
  
 an as to why I heard noise an others didn't it boils down to my rig, though I will say I do high gain output on my dac so that might be why Im grabbing some noise with the vali


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

So I get to spend several hours listening last night.At that point amp & cans now had around 45hours on them.In my first impressions post I likened the sound to looking out a squeaky clean window to see a snow covered field with bright blue sky overhead.The amp & cans both seem to have relaxed considerably,like the sun is sinking low & the blue sky is turning reddish/orange,just a tiny hint of sweetness.Transients are still razor sharp(Planar Cans?).Here are a few notes I made.
 Muddy Waters "Can't Lose W.Y.N.H."If you've ever played around with an electric guitar then you have heard & know well the plastic sound of a pick when bending into a note strike & releasing.This plasticy tone is clearly heard from the rhythm guitar at stage left.
 The Cars"Dangerous Type"WOW,the imaging & sound stage here is excellent,especially the drum kit!The recording engineer really knew how to mic.Drums are NOT wall to wall but compact,like a small kit should be.Clear space between musicians.
 Led Zep"Hey Hey"Still hearing a bit of sibilance on Roberts vocals.Mandolin sounds soooo sweet.Drums don't sound right.No organics to them.
 GoGo's"Vacation"This track was very rhythmic & musical,really a pleasure to hear.Bass has excellent definition.Tight,NO slop.Belindas vocals BORDERLINE too sharp.Background vocals very clear.
 Ziggy Marley"Is This Love Live"WOW,real depth to sound stage!Excellent low level detail,tambourines very clear & at back of band.The missing organics from the drums in Led Zep are NOT evident here.Wonderful tone from all instruments.
 Tab Benoit"Spell on you"Sibilance confirmed here big time.
 Billy Idol"White Wedding"Billies vocals are great here,you can actually see his sneer in the tone of his vocal changes!
 Clapton"Early In The Mourning"Hammond B3 sounds AMAZING here,beautiful tone.Again bass has excellent definition.
 To summarize my session.This is a wonderfuly musical amp.It doesn't draw attention to itself but allows the recording to do that.I think at this point another 50hours on the amp & cans along with a tube change & it could be a keeper.We'll see how it does against the all tube APPJ amp incoming.


----------



## moshen

I've been listening to my Vali 2 for a few days. Very nice with my HD800 & HE1000, I don't find much lacking with the sound given its price & tubes. Build quality was exceptional and it looks much nicer than the photos. Only complaint is the white LED on the front is a bit too bright and distracts from the nice warm glow.
 
After a couple of days of listening I was able to hook it up to my switch box and compare with the O2 amp after very careful volume matching. Both amps sound very close with the HE1000 however the Vali 2 might have had the appearance of a bit less detail, and the edges were a bit rounded off making it a bit smoother in tone but with a slight 'haze' over the sound. The O2 was cleaner and sharper. Pretty much typical given SS vs. tubes. I was able to pick out the Vali2 14/20 times blind.
 
Overall, great little unit. I'm really happy with it.


----------



## sheldaze

e8armydiver said:


> So I get to spend several hours listening last night.At that point amp & cans now had around 45hours on them.In my first impressions post I likened the sound to looking out a squeaky clean window to see a snow covered field with bright blue sky overhead.The amp & cans both seem to have relaxed considerably,like the sun is sinking low & the blue sky is turning reddish/orange,just a tiny hint of sweetness.Transients are still razor sharp(Planar Cans?).Here are a few notes I made.
> Muddy Waters "Can't Lose W.Y.N.H."If you've ever played around with an electric guitar then you have heard & know well the plastic sound of a pick when bending into a note strike & releasing.This plasticy tone is clearly heard from the rhythm guitar at stage left.
> The Cars"Dangerous Type"WOW,the imaging & sound stage here is excellent,especially the drum kit!The recording engineer really knew how to mic.Drums are NOT wall to wall but compact,like a small kit should be.Clear space between musicians.
> Led Zep"Hey Hey"Still hearing a bit of sibilance on Roberts vocals.Mandolin sounds soooo sweet.Drums don't sound right.No organics to them.
> ...


 
 Wow - a lot of imagery there!
 Not sure what planar cans you're using. My first were Oppo PM-3, through their loaner program. It took me a couple of hours to adjust to the speed of the things. And I don't think the Vali 2 will hold back the speed.
  


moshen said:


> I've been listening to my Vali 2 for a few days. Very nice with my HD800 & HE1000, I don't find much lacking with the sound given its price & tubes. Build quality was exceptional and it looks much nicer than the photos. Only complaint is the white LED on the front is a bit too bright and distracts from the nice warm glow.
> 
> After a couple of days of listening I was able to hook it up to my switch box and compare with the O2 amp after very careful volume matching. Both amps sound very close with the HE1000 however the Vali 2 might have had the appearance of a bit less detail, and the edges were a bit rounded off making it a bit smoother in tone but with a slight 'haze' over the sound. The O2 was cleaner and sharper. Pretty much typical given SS vs. tubes. I was able to pick out the Vali2 14/20 times blind.
> 
> Overall, great little unit. I'm really happy with it.


 
 Very interesting. I have the HE-1000, and am thinking of purchase of an HD800 or HD800S. I am curious if you have heard the original Vali? At a meet, planned for February, I'm hoping to listen to the HD800 on a number of systems, including a Vali and my Vali 2.


----------



## moshen

sheldaze said:


> Wow - a lot of imagery there!
> Not sure what planar cans you're using. My first were Oppo PM-3, through their loaner program. It took me a couple of hours to adjust to the speed of the things. And I don't think the Vali 2 will hold back the speed.
> 
> Very interesting. I have the HE-1000, and am thinking of purchase of an HD800 or HD800S. I am curious if you have heard the original Vali? At a meet, planned for February, I'm hoping to listen to the HD800 on a number of systems, including a Vali and my Vali 2.


 

 Sorry, not heard the original Vali. I may sell the HD800, it's pretty much brand new. I got it after the HE1000 but almost never listen to it with the HE1000 around.


----------



## painted klown

There's been a lot of good tube rolling info popping in in here the past few days. Thanks to all who have contributed. A little info goes a long way in helping those new to tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Also, it's nice to see some more reviews of the amp coming in. I really enjoy the comparisons to other amps, as I have not heard any HP amps other than my DC-1 and Vali 2. Thanks for the reports all.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It looks like the Starlight may be a great "contender" for the Vali 2. I'd love to do a head to head comparison myself. Would be a lot of fun IMO.
  
 Quote:


moshen said:


> Sorry, not heard the original Vali. I may sell the HD800, it's pretty much brand new. I got it after the HE1000 but almost never listen to it with the HE1000 around.


 
 If you don't mind me asking, how did the Vali 2 fare with the HD-800? From all reports, the HD-800 is ultra revealing and can be picky about upstream components. It would be interesting to know how these 2 products, at opposite ends of the cost scale, play together.


----------



## HOWIE13

moshen said:


> I've been listening to my Vali 2 for a few days. Very nice with my HD800 & HE1000, I don't find much lacking with the sound given its price & tubes. Build quality was exceptional and it looks much nicer than the photos. Only complaint is the white LED on the front is a bit too bright and distracts from the nice warm glow.
> 
> After a couple of days of listening I was able to hook it up to my switch box and compare with the O2 amp after very careful volume matching. Both amps sound very close with the HE1000 however the Vali 2 might have had the appearance of a bit less detail, and the edges were a bit rounded off making it a bit smoother in tone but with a slight 'haze' over the sound. The O2 was cleaner and sharper. Pretty much typical given SS vs. tubes. I was able to pick out the Vali2 14/20 times blind.
> 
> Overall, great little unit. I'm really happy with it.


 
 Thanks for that very useful comparison. I don't have the Vali 2 but I was comparing the O2 to my Starlight, with a GE 12BH7A tube, using DT1770 cans.
 The O2 is very transparent and detailed, as is well acknowledged, but Starlight was equally so with this tube and, in addition, had more warmth, a more holographic sound stage and better dynamics.
 Of course the O2 amp is very good and great value for money, but from what I've read about Vali 2, I'm sure, with judicious tube rolling to synergise with the source, recording and cans, the Vali 2 could be tweaked to sound equally as good in all areas, if not even better.


----------



## moshen

painted klown said:


> If you don't mind me asking, how did the Vali 2 fare with the HD-800? From all reports, the HD-800 is ultra revealing and can be picky about upstream components. It would be interesting to know how these 2 products, at opposite ends of the cost scale, play together.


 

 The HD800 sounds great from the Vali 2. I don't really buy into the HD800 being picky with amps at all. I've heard my HD800 from numerous amps. The HD800 does best IMO with higher impedance outputs to give it more warmth (such as OTL tube amps) and the Vali 2 is rather low impedance (8 ohms) out, but other than that no issues. The tube gives it a slightly softer edge which is nice.


----------



## volly

Only one more sleep till I get to listen to the Vali 2, very excited! Mwahahhaha!!!


----------



## SpecChum

Tempted. 

Any idea how this would go with a xonar dx as the dac paired with dt990 and soundmagic hp200 headphones?


----------



## volly

Merry Christmas all!


----------



## i20bot

e8armydiver said:


> Ladies & gentleman ....Announcing the fight of the year.In this corner the Schiit Audio Vali 2. The contender I have found is designed & built by the genius behind the MiniWatt Tube amplifier that has taken the SET Home Stereo crowd by storm!The APPJ Audio PA1502A amp is a SS Rectified(if you've ever lost an amp to a bad rec.tube you'll be glad as I am for this),Auto Biasing,Class A Single Ended Triode(12AX7)front end driving a pair of Triode Strapped,6v6 Power Tubes!The amp is TRANSFORMER COUPLED with NO offset DC & NO caps in the output path!Power Transformers are Japanese Z-11 Steel & have a quoted power outout of 18v PtP.!We are talking the same HEAVY DUTY transformers like I have in my EL34 driven Integrated Amp!This little sucker is also a heavyweight compared to the 1lb.Vali2 weighing in at a whopping 4lbs.6ozs!Since this is a Transformer Coupled Amp it should have no problem driving low impedance cans & is rated to drive an 8-600 ohm load!.Priced at $221.00 Including DHL Shipping it is a bit more than the Schiit.which is $183.00 Delivered.Actual Fight Date TBA.A few stolen pics to wet your appetite.


 
 So how'd your comparison go?  This amp is back up on Massdrop.  Was thinking of trying it out.


----------



## h2rulz

^ Beautiful! 
Can't wait till I get min next Wednesday!


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

i20bot said:


> So how'd your comparison go?  This amp is back up on Massdrop.  Was thinking of trying it out.


 
 Won't be here until Monday.That's why fight date was TBA.


----------



## disastermouse

mysticstryk said:


> Lol, I feel your pain.  The thing is I've never owned a tube amp, so spending $350 on an unknown entity is hard to swallow.  Whereas the $170 of the Vali 2 is perfect, but it doesn't have the options that Garage1217 amps have in terms of tube rolling.  Between the Starlight and the Vali 2, it seems that for hard to drive headphones, the Vali 2 is the clear winner.


 

 The fewer tubes you can roll, the more your wallet would thank you, I'd think.


----------



## RedBull

The fewer tubes can roll the more you have to roll the amp.


----------



## OldRoadToad

Hello the house!
  
 And Helloooooo Betty! 
  
 I am, as was said by Alice, curiouser and curiouser.  I should very much like to see this one in the dark surrounded by a soft glow of its own making. 
  
 In truth the only thing I can (currently) think of that would improve its look is a set of VU Meters up front.  Looks matter.  How it sounds matters little to me as I am hoping that it will not "sound" at all.  I fully expect to hear music, not equipment.  And that my friends should be music to any enthusiast's ears.
  
 I have the money now all that remains is to gird my loins and find the testicular fortitude for the budgetary battle that the Mistress of Moolah is likely to put up against this purchase.   As spoken by the immortal Julio of "Easy Money" fame..."Al-eesan.  I'm the MAN!"
  
 The Toad


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

oldroadtoad said:


> I should very much like to see this one in the dark surrounded by a soft glow of its own making.
> 
> The Toad


 
 Here you go::


----------



## Currawong

Look what arrived in time for Xmas:
  

  
 Now I just await more tubes...


----------



## Tuneslover

currawong said:


> Look what arrived in time for Xmas:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




A Vali (2) Christmas!!


----------



## i20bot

e8armydiver said:


> Won't be here until Monday.That's why fight date was TBA.


 

 Ah ok.  I got my pay per view ready for this fight.


----------



## volly

currawong said:


> Look what arrived in time for Xmas:
> 
> 
> 
> Now I just await more tubes...


 
 Good times my friend!
  
 I've only got to have a little listen to the new amp due to Christmas day gatherings and such.
  
 I will note early that this amp is clear and detailed like the Asgard 2 and perhaps a tad more dynamic. A little bit of warmth but not too much and very enveloping. 
  
 Asgard 2 is in cyro-status as of right now and it might remain that way for a long time!
  
 More to come...


----------



## Currawong

After being left on for a day, it is doing quite well. A bit of harshness in the sound sig and a bit of blur compared to my other amps, but is quite an exciting listen. Surprisingly it even does quite well with the HE1000s.


----------



## TinearedOne

Another happy Vali 2 owner.  What a lovely Christmas present.  My first foray into the world of tubes, and I have to say it has had the effect every good change to my audio system has had; I am working my way through my entire record and CD collection re-discovering a bunch of music.
  
 I don't have as many things to compare my experience to as most on this board, so I'll keep it simple.  I mostly listen to two channel through my amp and speakers, and have been using a Schiit Sys for the last year or so.  While I like the Sys, it has been pretty revealing, and given that it's a straight pass-through, it isn't the most forgiving with potentially annoying source material.  I wanted the Vali 2 to take out perceived harshness in bass response, and also at the top end.  The bottom is smoother without being less precise.  The top is smoother.  Does that mean it's rolled off?  I don't know.  I do know that I can listen to cymbals and other high pitched sounds, and have been testing out songs with those kinds of sounds, while they were in many cases unlistenable through my amp and source material at even reasonable volumes without the Vali 2 in the chain.
  
 On to headphones.  I've had my eye the AKG K612 Pros or Q701s for quite some time now and finally have an amp that should work well with them...
  
 Very excited that Schiit made getting into tube audio so easy. I don't think I'll be rolling for some time.  The sound with the stock tube is quite pleasing.


----------



## OldRoadToad

e8armydiver said:


> Here you go::


 
 Very nice, indeed.  A beautiful, albeit humble glow, worthy of the season...
  
 Thank you!
  
 Thee Toade


----------



## jfoxvol

tinearedone said:


> Another happy Vali 2 owner.  What a lovely Christmas present.  My first foray into the world of tubes, and I have to say it has had the effect every good change to my audio system has had; I am working my way through my entire record and CD collection re-discovering a bunch of music.
> 
> I don't have as many things to compare my experience to as most on this board, so I'll keep it simple.  I mostly listen to two channel through my amp and speakers, and have been using a Schiit Sys for the last year or so.  While I like the Sys, it has been pretty revealing, and given that it's a straight pass-through, it isn't the most forgiving with potentially annoying source material.  I wanted the Vali 2 to take out perceived harshness in bass response, and also at the top end.  The bottom is smoother without being less precise.  The top is smoother.  Does that mean it's rolled off?  I don't know.  I do know that I can listen to cymbals and other high pitched sounds, and have been testing out songs with those kinds of sounds, while they were in many cases unlistenable through my amp and source material at even reasonable volumes without the Vali 2 in the chain.
> 
> ...




Brilliant, innit.


----------



## bigro

I agree the stock tube really does sound good. It gets better as the tube gets a few hours on it. I may explore some more but for now but I really enjoy the Vali 2 as is.


----------



## Deftone

for people that are not too keen on the brightness of the white leds there are some stickers you can use called LightDims
  
 i have ordered some so it should be with me soon, i have 4 white leds in total in my stack so i need to tone them down lol.


----------



## bigro

deftone said:


> for people that are not too keen on the brightness of the white leds there are some stickers you can use called LightDims
> 
> i have ordered some so it should be with me soon, i have 4 white leds in total in my stack so i need to tone them down lol.


 

 Most of My Schiit is in the Living room. I do not need night lights and it acts like a beacon to wonderful sound.


----------



## Ghost Pack

Anyone know if it's possible to buy a Vali 2 without the stock GE tube? I have plenty of leftovers from forays with the Lyr. 
.


----------



## bigro

ghost pack said:


> Anyone know if it's possible to buy a Vali 2 without the stock GE tube? I have plenty of leftovers from forays with the Lyr.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Email schiit support. There is no option on the website so that's your best bet


----------



## volly

More impressions: 
  
 The stock tube clean, clear and dynamic! Very good balance top to bottom, would like to see with about a week of full use! 
  
 The amp is very capable and I'm enjoying what I'm hearing, compared to the Asgard 2 I am sold on a tube hybrid amp as my daily. 
  
 With the ability to choose High/Low gain is very handy, I use low gain with the X2's as I do hear the noise floor on high gain mode. 
  
 My personal thoughts is, they'll have to do something with the Asgard 2 to make it stand up to the rest of the line up, I feel it really is in danger here!
  
 The Asgard 2 has been a very very capable amp, just a solid performance for the price but the cost/performance of the Vali 2 is really very impressive!
  
 I'll probably start tube rolling in a few months as I'd like to get use to the sound currently. I'll be giving the X2's a break soon (but not too soon!) and swapping in my HD600's.
  
 Looking foward to hearing my HD600's through the Vali 2 as I didn't like the sound coming from the Asgard 2 to be honest!
  
 Strange question for Schiit but I'll ask it, will the Lisst tube work with the Vali 2?!


----------



## lvince95

volly said:


> More impressions:
> 
> The stock tube clean, clear and dynamic! Very good balance top to bottom, would like to see with about a week of full use!
> 
> ...


 

 Yup, LISST works. But you honestly should only look at LISST if you are selling your Asgard.


----------



## volly

Cheers man, if that's the case. The Vali 2 is a pretty damn versatile amp!


----------



## derbigpr

I'd like to hear more impressions about the Vali 2 vs. Asgard 2, particularly with higher impedance headphones, HD600's, HD650's, T1's, etc.
  
 Since I got an Asus Essence One Mk2 Muses, Asgard 2 has been picking up dust since the amp section of the E1 is superior, so I was thinking about going the tube way once again and replace the Asgard 2 with the Vali 2. Would that be a good choice? Is Vali 2 up to the technical ability of the Asgard 2? Also, does Vali 2 suffer from ANY sort of channel imbalance or ANY sort of background hissing? I'm talking about ANY, 0,5 db imbalance at anything but the lowest settings on the knob is enough for me to take my hammer and bye bye Vali 2, I'm very sensitive to channel imbalance and have zero tolerance for it. Asgard 2 is perfect in those regards, less than 0,1 db precision.


----------



## TinearedOne

Another quick comment.  I don't know if the pot on this is different from the one on my Sys, but it is _perfectly _balanced from 0-100, so I'm guessing Schiit's supplier is giving them higher quality stuff.  Loving that I can keep the volume low.


----------



## sheldaze

tinearedone said:


> Another quick comment.  I don't know if the pot on this is different from the one on my Sys, but it is _perfectly _balanced from 0-100, so I'm guessing Schiit's supplier is giving them higher quality stuff.  Loving that I can keep the volume low.


 
 I had a similar question - more so, when did they change the pot? Did it first come on a Magni 2 Uber?
 I owned the Magni 2 and Vali (and still own the SYS), and I'm finding the pot on the Vali 2 much more to my liking!


----------



## aamefford

derbigpr said:


> I'd like to hear more impressions about the Vali 2 vs. Asgard 2, particularly with higher impedance headphones, HD600's, HD650's, T1's, etc.
> 
> Since I got an Asus Essence One Mk2 Muses, Asgard 2 has been picking up dust since the amp section of the E1 is superior, so I was thinking about going the tube way once again and replace the Asgard 2 with the Vali 2. Would that be a good choice? Is Vali 2 up to the technical ability of the Asgard 2? Also, does Vali 2 suffer from ANY sort of channel imbalance or ANY sort of background hissing? I'm talking about ANY, 0,5 db imbalance at anything but the lowest settings on the knob is enough for me to take my hammer and bye bye Vali 2, I'm very sensitive to channel imbalance and have zero tolerance for it. Asgard 2 is perfect in those regards, less than 0,1 db precision.


 
  
  


tinearedone said:


> Another quick comment.  I don't know if the pot on this is different from the one on my Sys, but it is _perfectly _balanced from 0-100, so I'm guessing Schiit's supplier is giving them higher quality stuff.  Loving that I can keep the volume low.


 
  
  


sheldaze said:


> I had a similar question - more so, when did they change the pot? Did it first come on a Magni 2 Uber?
> I owned the Magni 2 and Vali (and still own the SYS), and I'm finding the pot on the Vali 2 much more to my liking!


 
  
 Ditto this on the volume pot. Seriously excellent channel balance from this volume pot.  If I listen (very, very) carefully I can detect the slightest imbalance that is overcome immediately at just past initial rotation on mine.  I mean seriously below where one would ever consider listening.  Down in the noise and very faint music one hears with very efficient headphones at dead zero volume.  Vali2 is a fun, fun amp, and a serious bargain.


----------



## painted klown

aamefford said:


> Ditto this on the volume pot. Seriously excellent channel balance from this volume pot.  If I listen (very, very) carefully I can detect the slightest imbalance that is overcome immediately at just past initial rotation on mine.  I mean seriously below where one would ever consider listening.  Down in the noise and very faint music one hears with very efficient headphones at dead zero volume.  Vali2 is a fun, fun amp, and a serious bargain.


 
 I too noticed that at the lowest level, the right channel comes on just a bit before the left channel comes in. Once the left channel comes in, all is well though. I am talking about just _barely_ turning the volume knob though.
  
 Agreed the Vali 2 is a fun little amp. I am still enjoying mine greatly and remain equally impressed with its ability to drive my 650's. Amazing IMO.


----------



## jfoxvol

So this is happening


----------



## sheldaze

jfoxvol said:


> So this is happening


 
 I was just about to say, it is so much less intimidating to roll a single tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I ordered a Mullard first, but apparently my 6CG7 just wanted to get here first. So I'm having a listen to it now


----------



## bretemm

Is anyone using the Vali2 by itself? with a iPod or DAP? what's the diffrence between that way or by using a Schiit DAC insted? I have the Bifrost DS and I'm wondering if I should get the SYS as well to switch or- if just using the vali2 by itself is good enough?
Thanks


----------



## TinearedOne

I'm using my Vali 2 in a setup that includes the Sys and Modi 2 Uber, and I use three inputs (computer, CD transport, turntable).  The Sys is totally transparent in the system, and in fact the addition of the Vali 2 has tightened up the imaging while retaining all the detail.  Questions?


----------



## bretemm

Great, so, do you think it would work ok with a DAP? Fiio x1 by rca headphone jack to vali2 rca inputs? I'm needing more power for my 50 ohm iems, I don't really want to order a fiio amp. 





tinearedone said:


> I'm using my Vali 2 in a setup that includes the Sys and Modi 2 Uber, and I use three inputs (computer, CD transport, turntable).  The Sys is totally transparent in the system, and in fact the addition of the Vali 2 has tightened up the imaging while retaining all the detail.  Questions?


----------



## derbigpr

aamefford said:


> Ditto this on the volume pot. Seriously excellent channel balance from this volume pot.  If I listen (very, very) carefully I can detect the slightest imbalance that is overcome immediately at just past initial rotation on mine.  I mean seriously below where one would ever consider listening.  Down in the noise and very faint music one hears with very efficient headphones at dead zero volume.  Vali2 is a fun, fun amp, and a serious bargain.


 
  
  
 Sweet, I'm glad to  hear that Schiit is taking it seriously and nailing the basics. There's so many amplifiers out there that suffer from channel imbalance, it's as if the designers and manufacturers don't understand that perfect channel balance is crucial to good sound on headphones and without it, you can say goodbye to proper imaging and  therefore, music enjoyment as well. Nothing worse than having a singer singing from the left side when he should be straight ahead of you.


----------



## TinearedOne

bretemm said:


> Great, so, do you think it would work ok with a DAP? Fiio x1 by rca headphone jack to vali2 rca inputs? I'm needing more power for my 50 ohm iems, I don't really want to order a fiio amp.


 
 I am running my headphone preamp and Modi into they Sys, and the Sys out into the Vali 2, so if you're talking about doing something similar I can't see how it wouldn't work.


----------



## sheldaze

bretemm said:


> Great, so, do you think it would work ok with a DAP? Fiio x1 by rca headphone jack to vali2 rca inputs? I'm needing more power for my 50 ohm iems, I don't really want to order a fiio amp.


 
 I do not own the FiiO X1, but I read that it does have a line out function (using the same 3.5mm jack for headphone). Use that mode, and plug directly into the Vali 2. You will need a 3.5mm to RCA conversion cable.


----------



## jfoxvol

sheldaze said:


> I was just about to say, it is so much less intimidating to roll a single tube :rolleyes:
> 
> I ordered a Mullard first, but apparently my 6CG7 just wanted to get here first. So I'm having a listen to it now




Nice. I'm hoping the 6cg7 clone works. If so, I'll spring for an actual RCA. I couldn't say no to the other ones. Price was right and if I don't like them, I can certainly use in some other project amps. I'm super excited about the JAN Phillips as well.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you 





sheldaze said:


> I do not own the FiiO X1, but I read that it does have a line out function (using the same 3.5mm jack for headphone). Use that mode, and plug directly into the Vali 2. You will need a 3.5mm to RCA conversion cable.


----------



## bigro

What Sheldaze said.. I had an X1. It is the same jack as the headphone jack you have to go to settings and change it to line out. Remember to change it back before your plug headphones back in.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, I kinda matched my ipod signature with the eq settings on it. I may wait to place my order under after new years 





bigro said:


> What Sheldaze said.. I had an X1. It is the same jack as the headphone jack you have to go to settings and change it to line out. Remember to change it back before your plug headphones back in.


----------



## mysticstryk

I'm really interested in seeing some comparisons to the Project Sunrise and Solstice from Garage1217. Single tube hybrid amps that are close to the Vali 2 price.


----------



## MrPanda

derbigpr said:


> I'd like to hear more impressions about the Vali 2 vs. Asgard 2, particularly with higher impedance headphones, HD600's, HD650's, T1's, etc.
> 
> Since I got an Asus Essence One Mk2 Muses, Asgard 2 has been picking up dust since the amp section of the E1 is superior, so I was thinking about going the tube way once again and replace the Asgard 2 with the Vali 2. Would that be a good choice? Is Vali 2 up to the technical ability of the Asgard 2? Also, does Vali 2 suffer from ANY sort of channel imbalance or ANY sort of background hissing? I'm talking about ANY, 0,5 db imbalance at anything but the lowest settings on the knob is enough for me to take my hammer and bye bye Vali 2, I'm very sensitive to channel imbalance and have zero tolerance for it. Asgard 2 is perfect in those regards, less than 0,1 db precision.


 

 I've got both.  I haven't had a lot of time yet with the Vali 2 yet, but it makes a nice second rig.  I've used the stock RCA tube with it, and an Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 for starters. First impression is that it puts out a lot more power, and a lot less noise than you might think.  It can power my AKG K340's which are a complex load without issue - it's also fine with the Q710, K712 and Beyer DT770.  It shines with the Phillips Fidelio 2's, for me, that's the best match - the soundstage and warm clarity of the amp are just terrific. The Fidelio's top end is a great match for the amp, nice and smooth, more so than with the Asgard 2. With HiFiMan 400i, the differences in the amps really start to show in a bigger way.  The Asgard 2 has more clarity, and a lot more soundstage. Maybe the sound is a little clinical, and maybe a little bright with that combo, but complex and loud passages are pretty much effortless with that combo. Over all, I'd say the Asgard 2 is the better amp with a more revealing headphone, but the Vali 2 is downright impressive.   I'm still breaking it in, and will comment after I get some more hours on it.


----------



## Tuneslover

mysticstryk said:


> I'm really interested in seeing some comparisons to the Project Sunrise and Solstice from Garage1217. Single tube hybrid amps that are close to the Vali 2 price.




Agreed as I am quite interested with both of these company's offerings.


----------



## lvince95

tuneslover said:


> Agreed as I am quite interested with both of these company's offerings.


 

 I had the Project Polaris and Jeremy from Garage1217 was a pleasure to deal with. He really goes above and beyond to make his customers happy.
  
 Schiit is great too, but I feel their CS can be tough to deal with at times.


----------



## shinbojan

mrpanda said:


> It shines with the Phillips Fidelio 2's, for me, that's the best match - the soundstage and warm clarity of the amp are just terrific. The Fidelio's top end is a great match for the amp, nice and smooth, more so than with the Asgard 2. With HiFiMan 400i, the differences in the amps really start to show in a bigger way.


 
  
 I am currently using uber2 stack with my X2. Do you think that Fidelio would sound nicer with Vali2?


----------



## aamefford

Mine is up for grabs.  I love the little guy, but I fell victim to something else shiny.


----------



## mysticstryk

aamefford said:


> Mine is up for grabs.  I love the little guy, but* I fell victim to something else shiny*.


 
  
 The curse of Head-fi in a nutshell


----------



## MrPanda

shinbojan said:


> I am currently using uber2 stack with my X2. Do you think that Fidelio would sound nicer with Vali2?


 

 I was using a BiFrost multibit as the DAC, haven't heard the other Uber pieces.   But I think the Fidelio 2 has great synergy with the Vali 2.  It's a really pleasing sound, can't say if it's better, but it's addictive listening to that combo in my second setup with the Fidelio 2.  I think it's definitely more engaging than the Fidelio/Asgard combo.  HE400i/Vali 2, not so much.


----------



## aamefford

aamefford said:


> Mine is up for grabs.  I love the little guy, but I fell victim to something else shiny.


 
  
  


mysticstryk said:


> The curse of Head-fi in a nutshell


 

 LOL, for sure!  Cheaper than dirt bikes or cars though.


----------



## mysticstryk

aamefford said:


> LOL, for sure!  Cheaper than dirt bikes or cars though.


 
  
  
 Idk about that!  I spent more on my audio gear in the last three months than my buddy spent on his new motorcycle.  (granted, it needs some work, haha!)


----------



## Letmebefrank

Is the level of the RCA out changed by the volume knob or is it just a pass through of the RCA input? I'm trying to decide if I can put this between my modi 2U and my magni 2 without effecting the sound.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

letmebefrank said:


> Is the level of the RCA out changed by the volume knob or is it just a pass through of the RCA input? I'm trying to decide if I can put this between my modi 2U and my magni 2 without effecting the sound.


 
 It's listed as a PreAmp so output will be controlled by volume pot.


----------



## Letmebefrank

e8armydiver said:


> It's listed as a PreAmp so output will be controlled by volume pot.



Thanks for the info! Too bad about the output volume.


----------



## Billheiser

letmebefrank said:


> Thanks for the info! Too bad about the output volume.



It's "too bad" only in the very unusual case you propose of running a headphone amp into another headphone amp. Which you could do - but there's no good reason to.


----------



## bigro

letmebefrank said:


> Is the level of the RCA out changed by the volume knob or is it just a pass through of the RCA input? I'm trying to decide if I can put this between my modi 2U and my magni 2 without effecting the sound.


 

 I am trying to figure out why one would do this. An amplifier into an amplifier?


----------



## TinearedOne

bigro said:


> I am trying to figure out why one would do this. An amplifier into an amplifier?


 
 Me too...  scratching head...


----------



## Letmebefrank

billheiser said:


> It's "too bad" only in the very unusual case you propose of running a headphone amp into another headphone amp. Which you could do - but there's no good reason to.






bigro said:


> I am trying to figure out why one would do this. An amplifier into an amplifier?






tinearedone said:


> Me too...  scratching head...




If it was a pass through then I wouldn't have to use y cables and degrade the sound, or buy another switch to run it off the same source. I suppose I could just swap cables whenever I wanted to listen to a different headphone amp, but that would cause unnecessary wear and tear on the plugs.

As it is not a pass through, I wouldn't use it that way because it wouldn't make sense.


----------



## Defiant00

letmebefrank said:


> If it was a pass through then I wouldn't have to use y cables and degrade the sound, or buy another switch to run it off the same source. I suppose I could just swap cables whenever I wanted to listen to a different headphone amp, but that would cause unnecessary wear and tear on the plugs.
> 
> As it is not a pass through, I wouldn't use it that way because it wouldn't make sense.


 
  
 Just use y cables from the DAC to both amps, in my tests (and according to Schiit) it won't affect the sound.


----------



## sheldaze

I use the SYS because I have yet to hear Y-cables that do not degrade the sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 There was also something I read where having one of the two outputs (amplifiers) turned off could somehow affect the sound of the sound fed through to the amplifier that was still turned on.


----------



## Letmebefrank

defiant00 said:


> Just use y cables from the DAC to both amps, in my tests (and according to Schiit) it won't affect the sound.







sheldaze said:


> I use the SYS because I have yet to hear Y-cables that do not degrade the sound
> 
> There was also something I read where having one of the two outputs (amplifiers) turned off could somehow affect the sound of the sound fed through to the amplifier that was still turned on.




My experience with Y cables is that if both amps are on (in this case it would be to listen to the Magni 2 until the Vali 2 warms up) the signal will sound squished. I already had this problem with my speaker amp and the Magni 2, which is why I now use the SYS in reverse for those two.


----------



## Defiant00

letmebefrank said:


> My experience with Y cables is that if both amps are on (in this case it would be to listen to the Magni 2 until the Vali 2 warms up) the signal will sound squished. I already had this problem with my speaker amp and the Magni 2, which is why I now use the SYS in reverse for those two.




I think I had both amps on a number of times when I was using the splitters and never noticed a difference, but who knows. Still, whatever works for you


----------



## mysticstryk

I wasn't aware that we could use Y-cables in that way.  So the single end would go in whichever end on the modi?  I didn't know it could take a single left or right channel, and make it for both at the end of the Y-cable.


----------



## rgmffn

mysticstryk said:


> I wasn't aware that we could use Y-cables in that way.  So the single end would go in whichever end on the modi?  I didn't know it could take a single left or right channel, and make it for both at the end of the Y-cable.


 

 Well, now you know.  But I still prefer using a Sys.


----------



## Currawong

I've rolled a few tubes through today: The stock 6B7Z, a Matsus*ita 6FQ7, 6AQ8 and an Amperex 6922 PQ and honestly there's not much in it. The 6FQ7 is a bit darker-sounding and the stock tube a tiny bit harsher in the treble than the others.
  
 The amp is a bit loose-sounding, in an entertaining way. It's like being slightly tipsy. It doesn't hold the most control over the music, it's a fun listen.


----------



## CarpeDijon

Among the heaps of praise on the original Vali, there was Jude saying it was a surprisingly nice match with the HD800. Would you say (or has anyone said) the same of Vali2 and HD800? Can you recommend any tubes for this pairing?





currawong said:


> I've rolled a few tubes through today: The stock 6B7Z, a Matsus*ita 6FQ7, 6AQ8 and an Amperex 6922 PQ and honestly there's not much in it. The 6FQ7 is a bit darker-sounding and the stock tube a tiny bit harsher in the treble than the others.
> 
> The amp is a bit loose-sounding, in an entertaining way. It's like being slightly tipsy. It doesn't hold the most control over the music, it's a fun listen.


----------



## sheldaze

currawong said:


> I've rolled a few tubes through today: The stock 6B7Z, a Matsus*ita 6FQ7, 6AQ8 and an Amperex 6922 PQ and honestly there's not much in it. The 6FQ7 is a bit darker-sounding and the stock tube a tiny bit harsher in the treble than the others.
> 
> The amp is a bit loose-sounding, in an entertaining way. It's like being slightly tipsy. It doesn't hold the most control over the music, it's a fun listen.


 
 Good to hear - what's working and what's not. And what's just entertaining 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I went pretty cheap with my 6CG7, so the results were a little underwhelming. I'll post more comments when I get my Mullard. Then I'll at least have a few points of reference.
  


carpedijon said:


> Among the heaps of praise on the original Vali, there was Jude saying it was a surprisingly nice match with the HD800. Would you say (or has anyone said) the same of Vali2 and HD800? Can you recommend any tubes for this pairing?


 
 HD800 is also inbound. I'll probably listen to the stock and Mullard tubes. But I won't be able to directly compare against the original Vali until a February meet. But you know the Vali is only $99


----------



## joeexp

Get a SOVTEC 6922 USSR valve. Works really nicely with the Sennheiser HD 650!
 Best £12 spent ever.
 Not loose sounding anymore!


----------



## jlangholzj

With you guys that are rolling, how long are you letting tubes settle in if they're brand new? I've found that in the first two days (cum. 24 hrs or so) of listening that your sound will change and that the tubes will take a bit to settle in. I can't say this is true on a vali per-say but the rest of my tube gear has all exhibited this. Nothing super dramatic like "omg this is the best toob evar" or "god it sounds like ***** now" but there will be an audible difference. A few designs that I've done I really didn't like at first but really came around after I gave it some time to work in. Not sure how familiar some of your are with tubes (and hell I'm still learning into them everyday) but its something to consider since this may be some of yours first venture into triode land.


----------



## sheldaze

jlangholzj said:


> With you guys that are rolling, how long are you letting tubes settle in if they're brand new? I've found that in the first two days (cum. 24 hrs or so) of listening that your sound will change and that the tubes will take a bit to settle in. I can't say this is true on a vali per-say but the rest of my tube gear has all exhibited this. Nothing super dramatic like "omg this is the best toob evar" or "god it sounds like ***** now" but there will be an audible difference. A few designs that I've done I really didn't like at first but really came around after I gave it some time to work in. Not sure how familiar some of your are with tubes (and hell I'm still learning into them everyday) but its something to consider since this may be some of yours first venture into triode land.


 
 And when you say "letting tubes settle in" do you mean while playing music and with headphones connected? Just powered on?
 Sorry if it is a silly question - I'm coming from the Cavalli Liquid Carbon thread, where the amplifier could be burned in with no headphones - just music. So, I ask!


----------



## joeexp

Best if you have the headphones connected -  roughly 8 hours will get you there. [YMMV]
 The Vali 2 kind of sounds off the first few hours. But once settled in, can quite easily compete with the Liquid Carbon.
 Although they are quiet different beasts….


----------



## jlangholzj

sheldaze said:


> And when you say "letting tubes settle in" do you mean while playing music and with headphones connected? Just powered on?
> Sorry if it is a silly question - I'm coming from the Cavalli Liquid Carbon thread, where the amplifier could be burned in with no headphones - just music. So, I ask!


 
  
 The big thing is that you have a source connected. Make that voltage swing. The process just kind of cleans off the plates and gets its bias point to settle in well. The theory is that by applying a source and getting it to swing through its max range of output, you're just covering more of that spectrum. I'm assuming that the LC wants you to crank the volume and give it a source? If so you're doing just that, making those tubes swing to their maximum designed ends. Its kind of like....if you start a project and just clean off a small portion of your bench. Once the project gets bigger (more voltage swing) you'll need to clean off extra bench space to work optimally VS if you clean the whole bench off right away, you'll have no problems no matter how big the project is, so long as it stays on the bench (max designed inputs)!
  
 HOWEVER. Some designs work off of the fact that you've got the tube loaded with something and need you to have that output connected. As such it might be a bit...erm...loud to have phones/speakers connected and follow the whole "max swing burn in" theory. I've done it both ways (connected vs unconnected) and I guess in my limited experience haven't noticed too much of a sonic difference outside of the fact that they just need time to settle in.
  
  


joeexp said:


> Best if you have the headphones connected -  roughly 8 hours will get you there. [YMMV]
> The Vali 2 kind of sounds off the first few hours.


 
 ^^ this. I've had some stabilize within 3-4 hours and others take a good day or so. The biggest change I'll normally notice is in the first half day of listening or so.


----------



## sheldaze

joeexp said:


>


 
  


jlangholzj said:


>


 
 All really great insights - truly appreciated!
 And...my second tube arrived today, so I will be trying it out shortly! Looks like my HD800 are stuck down the street though, so...


----------



## painted klown

currawong said:


> I've rolled a few tubes through today: The stock 6B7Z, a Matsus*ita 6FQ7, 6AQ8 and an Amperex 6922 PQ and honestly there's not much in it. The 6FQ7 is a bit darker-sounding and the stock tube a tiny bit harsher in the treble than the others.


 
  
 May I ask what you mean by "there's not much in it"?
  
 As in these tubes aren't the best for the Vali 2, or that they make little difference?


sheldaze said:


> Good to hear - what's working and what's not. And what's just entertaining
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "the results were a little underwhelming."?
  
 Underwhelming as in you didn't like the sound of the tube, or underwhelming as in, there was little change to the sound?
  


joeexp said:


> Get a SOVTEC 6922 USSR valve. Works really nicely with the Sennheiser HD 650!
> Best £12 spent ever.
> Not loose sounding anymore!


 
 Just to clarify, are you using this tube in a Vali 2, or another amp?
  
 If in the Vali 2, have you tried rolling other tubes into it as well?


----------



## Currawong

painted klown said:


> As in these tubes aren't the best for the Vali 2, or that they make little difference?


 
  
 They don't seem to make a lot of difference. I had a bit of a wiring screw-up in my system, so I'm rolling them all again to check it wasn't affecting things, but with the HD800s and an Yggdrasil here are my rough impressions. Note that the differences are not dramatic.
  
 Stock tube: Lively and forward. Treble can be a bit fatiguing. Would suit darker headphones better. 
 Amperex 6922 PQ: More spacious and relaxed than the stock tube, but still keeping the precision of the music there.
 Matsus?ita 6AQ8: Same deal as the Amperex, but possibly a hair's width more relaxed still.
 Matsus?ita 6FQ7: More bass and rolled-off treble less dynamic/more flat-sounding. 
  
 My thoughts are that nobody should feel that the stock tube isn't good, as the Amperex costs close to half what the amp sells for, and I'm using a DAC that is vastly better than intended for it.


----------



## joeexp

painted klown said:


> Just to clarify, are you using this tube in a Vali 2, or another amp?
> 
> If in the Vali 2, have you tried rolling other tubes into it as well?


 
  
 Yes - in the Vali. I have tried rolling other tubes as well - like the AMPEREX 6DJ8 (A-Frame) - which makes the Vali sound a little warmer.
 The Stock Tube is not bad at all. Depends what you are looking for.


----------



## sheldaze

painted klown said:


> Underwhelming as in you didn't like the sound of the tube, or underwhelming as in, there was little change to the sound?


 
 Yes, I preferred the sound of the original tube.
  
 This is my first experience at tube rolling - definitely do not read anything I've written in that regard as gospel. I read just yesterday that I should also give the tubes more time. And I now have 2 tubes, in addition to the original tube. Perhaps I got a bad tube? Perhaps I got a cheap tube? Perhaps I simply did not like the tube that Moffat prefers? I certainly would not concern myself with a single tube experiment. I am looking forward to the next tube roll, and looking at more insights from people with more tube experience


----------



## Deftone

does anyone know the biggest differences between Vali/Vali2 and Valhalla 2 ?


----------



## mithrandir38

deftone said:


> does anyone know the biggest differences between Vali/Vali2 and Valhalla 2 ?


 The vali is a tube/solid state hybrid amp. The Valhalla is a pure tube, output transformer- less amp designed for high impedance headphones, though the 2nd gen version is a little more versatile


----------



## Deftone

sorry i was not clear enough with my question, i meant for the sound quality. A Vali 2 somehow doesnt seem right to pair with a Gumby.
 i only have 300ohm phones anyway so  having low gain options are not a requirement.
  
 just trying to decide if theres a better choice than Gumby>Vallhalla 2


----------



## jfoxvol

deftone said:


> sorry i was not clear enough with my question, i meant for the sound quality. A Vali 2 somehow doesnt seem right to pair with a Gumby.
> i only have 300ohm phones anyway so  having low gain options are not a requirement.
> 
> just trying to decide if theres a better choice than Gumby>Vallhalla 2


 
 I have a Vali 2 and a Valhalla 2.  They both sound excellent with my Gumby.  The Vali 2 will work better with wider range of headphones but I've played my HD600s into both and they both sound fantastic.  The Vali 2 (if my memory serves me correct - lots of system changes lately) sounded a tad warmer than the Valhalla 2 in that setup.  Don't quote me on that but I do recall checking to make sure I hadn't accidentally picked up my HD650s.
  
 Edit: If tubes are not a must, seriously consider an Asgard 2.  It's amazing and a tremendous price and probably the most versatile amp in their line for the money.


----------



## Deftone

ok cool, thanks. 
  
 i get worried i might choose soemthing that will hold the gumby back.


----------



## jfoxvol

deftone said:


> ok cool, thanks.
> 
> i get worried i might choose soemthing that will hold the gumby back.


 
 If you get the vali 2, give the stock tube some time (1-2 days) of playback before making any decisions.  I'm in the middle of tube rolling now with it.  The stock tube is really great.  I'll post impressions here once I have some time to play around with some different types.


----------



## Badfish5446

jfoxvol said:


> If you get the vali 2, give the stock tube some time (1-2 days) of playback before making any decisions.  I'm in the middle of tube rolling now with it.  The stock tube is really great.  I'll post impressions here once I have some time to play around with some different types.


 
 I would say even longer on the tubes... this is the one area where I feel burn-in is indisputable. Every tube I've owned sounded different at 100 hrs vs new, some changes I liked, others I didn't.


----------



## jfoxvol

badfish5446 said:


> I would say even longer on the tubes... this is the one area where I feel burn-in is indisputable. Every tube I've owned sounded different at 100 hrs vs new, some changes I liked, others I didn't.


 
 Fair enough.  Good catch.  4 days for a new tube (or NOS).  I've been using tubes for 20 years in amps for hifi and guitar.  Should have been more accurate.  Only reason I said 1-2 days is they spend time in the shop testing and burning in before it ships.


----------



## painted klown

currawong said:


> They don't seem to make a lot of difference. I had a bit of a wiring screw-up in my system, so I'm rolling them all again to check it wasn't affecting things, but with the HD800s and an Yggdrasil here are my rough impressions. Note that the differences are not dramatic.
> 
> Stock tube: Lively and forward. Treble can be a bit fatiguing. Would suit darker headphones better.
> Amperex 6922 PQ: More spacious and relaxed than the stock tube, but still keeping the precision of the music there.
> ...


 
 Thank you for the clarification and additional info. If you have the opportunity to get your system re-wired and have some more impressions, I am sure everybody will be curious to know what you think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


sheldaze said:


> Yes, I preferred the sound of the original tube.
> 
> This is my first experience at tube rolling - definitely do not read anything I've written in that regard as gospel. I read just yesterday that I should also give the tubes more time. And I now have 2 tubes, in addition to the original tube. Perhaps I got a bad tube? Perhaps I got a cheap tube? Perhaps I simply did not like the tube that Moffat prefers? I certainly would not concern myself with a single tube experiment. I am looking forward to the next tube roll, and looking at more insights from people with more tube experience


 
 Thank you for the info. Glad you got your other tube in as well. When you have had some more time to roll between them, I will be looking forward to your additional thoughts. I am especially curious to know about the stock tube vs the one Mike liked. How they differ and so forth. No worries about being new to tubes. This is my first tube amp as well, and I have not yet had the opportunity to purchase any additional tubes for it, but knowing what works well is always nice to know when ordering up something to roll in there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Regarding tube burn in: The general consensus (at least in this thread) seems to be that tube burn in is real. What I find interesting is that some of you are saying that you did not like a certain tube after burn in. Generally, everything reportedly gets better...something I have always found odd...LOL!


----------



## hagenhays

Hi newbie here, 1st time poster. How does tube rolling work when your only swapping the one? From what I read each tube has dual triodes-- are some tubes dual vs single? Was originally debating between the Asgard 2 and the vali 1, until the vali 2 popped up. Mine doesn't even arrive until thurs and I'm already chomping at the bit. From what I can gather the stock tube is supposed to be fairly decent??

Would love to pick up a couple vintage tubes at the $25-50 range--might be too low for this forum (don't know lol)

If anyone at a later date has some vintage tube brands they feel sound good with the vali 2, or a reputable seller let me know.

Thanks room.

Equip:
All vintage
marantz 2020
Pioneer tt pl 510
Fisher XP speakers
Sennheiser 598's [obv not vintg]lol
Modi 1 and 2 dac


----------



## painted klown

hagenhays said:


> Hi newbie here, 1st time poster. How does tube rolling work when your only swapping the one? From what I read each tube has dual triodes-- are some tubes dual vs single? Was originally debating between the Asgard 2 and the vali 1, until the vali 2 popped up. Mine doesn't even arrive until thurs and I'm already chomping at the bit. From what I can gather the stock tube is supposed to be fairly decent??
> 
> Would love to pick up a couple vintage tubes at the $25-50 range--might be too low for this forum (don't know lol)
> 
> ...


 

 First off, Welcome to Head-Fi...sorry about your wallet! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 The Vali 2 only uses a single tube to run both channels, so when you order tubes, try to get tubes that are "triode matched" to avoid channel imbalance. The stock tube does indeed sound just fine. While waiting for my Vali 2 to arrive, I was scouring sites that sell tubes so I could take a look at what's out there, as well as find a suitable replacement/upgrade.
  
 Once I received my Vali 2, I realized quickly that the stock tube doesn't actually need replacing at all. It's great IMO.
  
 As far as other tube options, please read through this thread ,as well as ask any questions you may have in regards to compatibility or sound quality. I am sure you will get more helpful replies than this one, as I have no rolling experience personally. 
  
 Congrats on the new amp and good luck!


----------



## jfoxvol

hagenhays said:


> Hi newbie here, 1st time poster. How does tube rolling work when your only swapping the one? From what I read each tube has dual triodes-- are some tubes dual vs single? Was originally debating between the Asgard 2 and the vali 1, until the vali 2 popped up. Mine doesn't even arrive until thurs and I'm already chomping at the bit. From what I can gather the stock tube is supposed to be fairly decent??
> 
> Would love to pick up a couple vintage tubes at the $25-50 range--might be too low for this forum (don't know lol)
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome aboard, mate.  I own a Vali 2 and have a handful of NOS tube  of various types on their way.  I can say that the stock tube is absolutely great.  It will be several weeks before I can attest to any further modifications.  Feel free to PM me with any questions on rolling.  For now, just enjoy your new amp.  Cheers.


----------



## RyanRoloYo

Currently using the Vali 2 with Audioquest Nighthawks.  Some first impressions comparing against the line out from my Macbook.  
  
 The bass seems to have more extension and is more textured.  The highs seem to have more extension as well, although they are more 'chunky' and perhaps just slightly more sibilant.  The soundstage has definitely widened up a bit and the imaging has improved.  The sound in general is also more in our face compared to the naturally laid back nature of the Nighthawks which is not good or bad, just different 
  
 I tested it briefly with the Fidue A83s but didn't hear that much difference right away.  I'm gonna come back to those in a little bit and listen a bit more closely.  
  
 So far I'm happy with it!  Gonna do some more listening and see how the tube burns in.


----------



## hagenhays

I'm hoping the stock tube will serve its purpose (I'm not really looking to get in a cash free-fall with tubes, but curious to hear what the fuss is about). This will be my first headphone amp. My main set up is very analog and warm sounding. Hoping this will do the trick for my senn598s. I actually prefer speakers over headphones, but at some point in the day you have to be considerate to the family, lol.


----------



## jfoxvol

hagenhays said:


> I'm hoping the stock tube will serve its purpose. This will be my first headphone amp. My main set up is very analog and warm sounding. Hoping this will do the trick for my senn598s. I actually prefer speakers over headphones, but at some point in the day you have to be considerate to the family, lol.


 

 I play with my hd600s which are very similar.  Very good pairing.  I hope you enjoy.  As said earlier, give the tubes several day of playing (~100 hours) and they should be good and happy.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

APPJ Audio amp came in last night.Set up & ran for 10 hours before listening.With stock Chinese tubes pretty much a dead ringer tonally for the Vali 2 with a bit wider SS & NONE of the sibilance exhibited by the V2.Rolled in 3 perfectly matched & balanced Mullard Tubes(1953 & 1959) & the amp became a MONSTER!EVERYTHING I could have dreamed of & it's only got a few hours on the new tubes!ABSOLUTE Heaven!


----------



## i20bot

mrpanda said:


> I was using a BiFrost multibit as the DAC, haven't heard the other Uber pieces.   But I think the Fidelio 2 has great synergy with the Vali 2.  It's a really pleasing sound, can't say if it's better, but it's addictive listening to that combo in my second setup with the Fidelio 2.  I think it's definitely more engaging than the Fidelio/Asgard combo.  HE400i/Vali 2, not so much.


 
 That's odd.  I didn't like the X2 with Vali 2 and I liked the 400i with it.
  


e8armydiver said:


> APPJ Audio amp came in last night.Set up & ran for 10 hours before listening.With stock Chinese tubes pretty much a dead ringer tonally for the Vali 2 with a bit wider SS & NONE of the sibilance exhibited by the V2.Rolled in 3 perfectly matched & balanced Mullard Tubes(1953 & 1959) & the amp became a MONSTER!EVERYTHING I could have dreamed of & it's only got a few hours on the new tubes!ABSOLUTE Heaven!


 
 Oh man, you're making me want to get one too now.  Is that 400i in the background?  Is that what you were running with that amp?


----------



## rgmffn

mrpanda said:


> I was using a BiFrost multibit as the DAC, haven't heard the other Uber pieces.   But I think the Fidelio 2 has great synergy with the Vali 2.  It's a really pleasing sound, can't say if it's better, but it's addictive listening to that combo in my second setup with the Fidelio 2.  I think it's definitely more engaging than the Fidelio/Asgard combo.  HE400i/Vali 2, not so much.


 
  
  


i20bot said:


> That's odd.  I didn't like the X2 with Vali 2 and I liked the 400i with it.


 
  
 That's why we play the game.


----------



## Currawong

hagenhays said:


> I'm hoping the stock tube will serve its purpose (I'm not really looking to get in a cash free-fall with tubes, but curious to hear what the fuss is about). This will be my first headphone amp. My main set up is very analog and warm sounding. Hoping this will do the trick for my senn598s. I actually prefer speakers over headphones, but at some point in the day you have to be considerate to the family, lol.


 
  
 Absolutely it will, going by what I've experienced so far. There are a bunch of people here who own multiple Schiit Audio amps, purely for the fun of it, and the tube rolling is for the same reason -- part of the hobby for some of us and nothing to do with necessity at all.


----------



## bigro

currawong said:


> Absolutely it will, going by what I've experienced so far. There are a bunch of people here who own multiple Schiit Audio amps, purely for the fun of it, and the tube rolling is for the same reason -- part of the hobby for some of us and nothing to do with necessity at all.


 

 +1


----------



## Tuneslover

hagenhays said:


> I'm hoping the stock tube will serve its purpose (I'm not really looking to get in a cash free-fall with tubes, but curious to hear what the fuss is about). This will be my first headphone amp. My main set up is very analog and warm sounding. Hoping this will do the trick for my senn598s. I actually prefer speakers over headphones, but at some point in the day you have to be considerate to the family, lol.




I have the 598SE and to my ears it sounds very good with my Modi and Magni 2U on my iMac (iTunes 16/44.1). However I'm wondering how (better, different or same) it would sound with a Vali2. I worry if I can only live with the stock tube as I don't want to spend more on a couple of tubes than the Vali2 itself but many have reported that the stock tube is very good with the Vali2.


----------



## a44100Hz

i20bot said:


> Oh man, you're making me want to get one too now.  Is that 400i in the background?  Is that what you were running with that amp?




Hah. I just ordered it on massdrop after seeing those photos. Looks like fun and the price is right XD


----------



## DeeKay10

Any opinions on this with IEMs? Shure SE535 in particular.


----------



## jlangholzj

hagenhays said:


> Hi newbie here, 1st time poster. How does tube rolling work when your only swapping the one? From what I read each tube has dual triodes-- are some tubes dual vs single? Was originally debating between the Asgard 2 and the vali 1, until the vali 2 popped up. Mine doesn't even arrive until thurs and I'm already chomping at the bit. From what I can gather the stock tube is supposed to be fairly decent??


 
  
  
 Can't say anything on stock tube vs otherwise but as far as rolling goes.....it gets dangerous 
  
 You are correct that the noval (9-pin) tube that works in the vali2 is a twin triode (not a dual, those can be different triodes in the same tube). So now where the "difference" comes in is which tube is placed in the socket (I'm using quotes on that because some designs have more of an impact to rolling than others). Its basically like how when you walk into a furniture store and they've got an entire FLOOR or recliners. Now some of these don't fit your bum, so those get tossed out (design considerations). The ones that do fit your bum, some let you sink in more than others. Some are a bit more upright. Some are rigid, some are rockers. The big plush one that you get absorbed into might be MY favorite but not yours. Same thing with tube rolling. All of them serve the same purpose and function the same (parking your bum) but personal preferences will dictate if you want one vs the other. This analogy applies for twin triodes (loveseats) or recliners (power tubes like pentodes, tetrodes, etc).


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

i20bot said:


> That's odd.  I didn't like the X2 with Vali 2 and I liked the 400i with it.
> 
> Oh man, you're making me want to get one too now.  Is that 400i in the background?  Is that what you were running with that amp?


 
 Yes,HE400i's.Finally getting the sound I was looking for when I started upgrading.


----------



## TinearedOne

I can confirm that the Vali 2 pairs well with the AKG K612 Pro in high gain mode.


----------



## Tuneslover

tuneslover said:


> I have the 598SE and to my ears it sounds very good with my Modi and Magni 2U on my iMac (iTunes 16/44.1). However I'm wondering how (better, different or same) it would sound with a Vali2. I worry if I can only live with the stock tube as I don't want to spend more on a couple of tubes than the Vali2 itself but many have reported that the stock tube is very good with the Vali2.


 
 Screw the wondering...I just ordered a Vali 2.


----------



## hagenhays

Last I checked...mine went from Cali to Michg. Problem is I live in MT. That's the post office for you. I hope it gets here by Sat so I have a few hrs to play around with it. 

I have a q for you guys. Does anyone still listen to cds on here? I'm too lazy to rip them. Was wondering if a blu Ray thru a Schiit modi will do just as good as a dedicated CD player.
Any feedback on that would be great.

The wait is killing me.


----------



## sheldaze

Thanks @tommo21 for the Mullard suggestion - this tube is most generous with its syrupy sweetness.
 I could literally listen to the original tube on HD800 for a while, a then pop this in and feel like I've switched to a new headphone or amplifier


----------



## bretemm

I'm wondering about IEMs as well, I'm deciding between sennheiser, shure 435, 545, klipsch, westone or RHA. 





deekay10 said:


> Any opinions on this with IEMs? Shure SE535 in particular.


----------



## Currawong

deekay10 said:


> Any opinions on this with IEMs? Shure SE535 in particular.


 

 I was using it with Roxannes. Not the best control, but a heck of a fun listen!


----------



## sheldaze

And now back to the cheap 6CG7 tube, but this time with HD800 (was originally using K7XX when I was underwhelmed). This is...uhhh...good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That is, there is certainly something sonically happening, quite noticeable through the HD800, and nothing I would object to. I guess I'm just too new to tubes to be really seeking any particular sound. But I'm currently listening to some Dave Matthews Band (often my goto) and liking how the vocals are nicely enunciated, but the music is still there pleasant/present softly in the background. I could certainly listen to this and say - good enough! No need to roll another!
  
 In short, I found myself not liking the original tube (preferring straight m9XX > HD800 versus m9XX > Vali 2 > HD800). But with this tube, I'm liking the sound through the Vali 2.


----------



## h2rulz

Gotta agree, 6CG7 might just be it for me. The stock tubes although very nice was a bit too intimate, despite the relatively improved soundstage and lower end over the first Vali. However, the 6CG7, I can listen to this for long sessions with joy!


----------



## hagenhays

I saw they have this 6cg7 tube at tube depot with options to match the triodes ($2) high gain ($2 )and low noise microphonics ( $4).

What are your guys thought on these 2 upgrades? I assume the balancing triodes is a must for equal stereo distribution, but what about the other 2 upgrades--do you think they are worth it.

Definitely thinking about picking up a pair. (Keeping one as a spare)


----------



## h2rulz

I didn't go for any of those options, and it is sounding just fine. 
Although YMMV.

But really this is better left for the experienced tube rollers to answer, which I am definitely not.


----------



## jfoxvol

I went for matched triodes and low noise/microphonic. First option ensures better channel matching. Mine should be delivered today along with a few other treats. I got an EH clone. If I like it as much as I think, I'll then spring for an NOS RCA.

Low noise and microphonics is generally a good option for your voltage gain stage. If it's noisy, the rest of the circuit can be fine but you'll get noise. Not required but always a good option if available.


----------



## hagenhays

Thanks. I will probably go for all 3 options and buy a pair. That should put them at $21 a piece (does that sound right?), which is more than enough. Do these tubes rate at the standard 5000 hr/life, or are they a lot less?

I'm just of the belief of your parts shouldn't be more than half of the total cost. I don't want to spend $100 on tubes for an amp costing $169--doesn't make sense to me, but TEHO. I was going to go with the Valhalla or lyr, but got steered to this by the Schiit reps. I'm sure I will be happy either way. I love my modi 2 dac, imo it really cleans up the 300kbs spotify.

For those loving the 6cg7 tubes sing your praises....would love to be convinced that I Dont have to get caught Up in the "rolling" aspect of the hobby, but just enjoying the vintage tubey sound. I appreciate all of the feedback on these tubes.


----------



## Homeyjojo

Just got this today!
  
 I have a modi 2, Magnus 2 and Beyer t90's, and Th-x00 if anyone is looking for impressions with these.


----------



## RyanRoloYo

Does anyone else have volume imbalance between the left and right channel at low volumes?  I notice it with both over ear headphones and IEMs.  It's definitely noticeable up to a low-moderate volume level.


----------



## Homeyjojo

When you bring it up from 0, the right ear comes up first.
  
@RyanRoloYo


----------



## Homeyjojo

Pairing with the TH-X00:
  
 Its an interesting pairing to be sure. These cans with the original Vali were too warm I would say. As it has been said before, the Vali 2 is a bit more neutral, making it a better pairing with the Th-X00. 
  
 Holy bass. Loud, deep, clear. This extends up through the mids - giving artists such as Ed Sheeran the clarity they deserve, while also delivering a kick on the lower end. (Runaway is a great song for this). At the top end things start to get a bit lost. The X00 isn't as critical as my T90's, which with this amp provides a slightly warm analytical sound. However getting into treble and bass range the X00 surpasses the T90. 
  
 Flipping between hi and lo gain, the high gain fills out the X00 immediately, and gives you that kick down low. I prefer keeping it at low for the X00 - Cranking it up still gives that full bass and sound very quickly, while reducing a bit of a fuzz/muddied sound you get with high gain on these 25 ohm cans.
  
 Written for @MrPanda
  
 Anyone feel free to ask questions or call out my vocabulary. I'm new.


----------



## TinearedOne

ryanroloyo said:


> Does anyone else have volume imbalance between the left and right channel at low volumes?  I notice it with both over ear headphones and IEMs.  It's definitely noticeable up to a low-moderate volume level.


 
 Nope.  Mine is perfect.  I can't say the same for my Sys, which doesn't want to balance until just short of 9 on the clock.  Maybe Schiit still has an issue here and I got lucky.  Sorry to hear you didn't.


----------



## RickB

Vali 2 ordered and shipped. Now to wait til Tuesday. It's interesting how Fedex calculates "two day shipping."


----------



## poocaso

rickb said:


> Vali 2 ordered and shipped. Now to wait til Tuesday. It's interesting how Fedex calculates "two day shipping."




I feel the pain, my fellow Floridian! Mine was supposed to be delivered today but only made it as far as the Orlando hub. So now it's supposed to be delivered on Saturday instead... In an ideal world, we would get a partial credit back on the shipping charges when delays like this happen!


----------



## RickB

poocaso said:


> I feel the pain, my fellow Floridian! Mine was supposed to be delivered today but only made it as far as the Orlando hub. So now it's supposed to be delivered on Saturday instead... In an ideal world, we would get a partial credit back on the shipping charges when delays like this happen!


 
  
 Yeah, it sucks being on the opposite coast from Schiit Audio. And if you use Amazon Prime at all, it spoils you...


----------



## Designer79

Hello Head-Fi community,
  
 It's my first post here, so to everyone participating in this valuable and informative community a big thank you first! I am just getting my toes wet in this wonderful world of quality audio gear. Although having dreamt a long time of a nice loudspeaker and reciever setup, I am starting first with a decent setup for my recently aquired Beyerdynamic T90 headphones. I am living in Switzerland, which is a relatively small country but we have the luxury of access to a wide range of very very good products reaching the summit-fi of audio gear. But and that is a BIG but, no access to any of the Schiit products, because they do direct selling (what I admire), so nobody here has these products available (yet).
 I usually listen to gear first before i buy, but this was not possible in that case. But anyway the Vali 2 got ordered together with the Modi 2 Uber, because who can resist a real tube-amp and worldclass DAC for that price? So as you *Homeyjojo* have this exact setup with Vali 2 and T90 I was wondering how well they pair together. Warm and analytical you said, which is very good regarding the bright analytical nature of the Beyer. I am no basshead so I don't mind the amp not overly improving the bass of the Beyers. But what exactly is happening with the treble range? Does the Vali 2 recess the highs? Some people think the T90's sibilance is too much, so if the Amp would actually bring this down a notch, that wouldn't be too bad either. I guess you are running the amp in high gain with the T90. Could you tell a bit more about your impressions with the Beyers, please?
  
 A happy new year to everybody!
  
 Quote:


homeyjojo said:


> Pairing with the TH-X00:
> 
> Its an interesting pairing to be sure. These cans with the original Vali were too warm I would say. As it has been said before, the Vali 2 is a bit more neutral, making it a better pairing with the Th-X00.
> 
> ...


----------



## hagenhays

Sitting in a similar situation. Mine was supposed to be here today. Looks like it will only make it to the post, so not out for delivery until Sat. Ughh. Oh well. Lesson on patience. It will be what it will be.


----------



## Homeyjojo

@Designer79
  
 I've been using high gain with it yes. I might consider using it on low actually. The amp has more than enough power on low, and I've noticed a couple thing on high. There's a slight fuzz/static on high, a character of tube amps, but i don't hear it on low gain. Also on high gain the snares and drum beats are a bit too sharp.
  
 The amp definitely adds some character to the T90, rounding it off nicely. You'll have to play around for yourself however, I have experience with only my limited gear, so I can't really point you in any directions. I would't worry - The paring is good - keeping the crisp sound of the T90 and adding some warmth.


----------



## dmallen

Hi all, loving my Schiit setup, Bifrost and Vali 2 with HE-400s and HD-650's. Have a JJ gold pin tube coming soon to roll and see how the sound changes, however the stock tube sounds great. Running on the low gain with 3/4 volume and powers more then enough. Hopefully soon can post a picture or two.


----------



## mysticstryk

dmallen said:


> Hi all, loving my Schiit setup, Bifrost and Vali 2 with HE-400s and HD-650's. Have a JJ gold pin tube coming soon to roll and see how the sound changes, however the stock tube sounds great. Running on the low gain with 3/4 volume and powers more then enough. Hopefully soon can post a picture or two.




How is it treating your 650 with the stock tube?


----------



## dmallen

To be honest it was the first time I had the 650's on decent DAC and AMP and i am impressed. I have only rolled the tubes once on my Glow Audio Amp one and that was going from cheaper Chinese tubes to better NOS. For this was a noticeable difference. I dont have allot of experience rolling tubes but the stock tube on the Vali 2 sounds great. I doubt the lads from Schitt would deliver a tube that was not up to scratch. Once i get the JJ Gold pin i can give a better opinion.


----------



## MrPanda

tuneslover said:


> I have the 598SE and to my ears it sounds very good with my Modi and Magni 2U on my iMac (iTunes 16/44.1). However I'm wondering how (better, different or same) it would sound with a Vali2. I worry if I can only live with the stock tube as I don't want to spend more on a couple of tubes than the Vali2 itself but many have reported that the stock tube is very good with the Vali2.


 

 There's some sibilence with the 400i that I was hoping to tame with the tubes that hasn't happened with the two tubes I've tried.  (I listen to a lot of choral music, and extra sibilance in a big reverberant room can sound like a chipmunk convention).  That's not so much a problem with the X2 in general.  Bass is really good with the Vali 2, aa are overall dynamics with both phones, but I was looking for something to smooth out that trouble range in the 400i...


----------



## MrPanda

h2rulz said:


> Gotta agree, 6CG7 might just be it for me. The stock tubes although very nice was a bit too intimate, despite the relatively improved soundstage and lower end over the first Vali. However, the 6CG7, I can listen to this for long sessions with joy!


 

 I've got the matched one from Electro-harmonix, and haven't taken it out of my Vali 2 since.


----------



## MrPanda

homeyjojo said:


> Pairing with the TH-X00:
> 
> Its an interesting pairing to be sure. These cans with the original Vali were too warm I would say. As it has been said before, the Vali 2 is a bit more neutral, making it a better pairing with the Th-X00.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the review!  I just put myself on the waiting list for the next Massdrop.  Hope it's not too long for it to come back..


----------



## Designer79

It took FedEx only two days to ship the Vali 2 / Modi 2 U combo from California to Paris. That's less than 48 hours, since I clicked on that checkout button on Shiits online store. Well, color me impressed! It's new years day though so I guess no further shipping over the weekend. The wait is killing me ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Gonna report on first impressions paired with the Beyerdynamic T90's after receiving the V2 / M2U stack early next week. Cheers!
  
 btw, there were reports on the FedEx tracking site, about a massive snowstorm in the southwest of the US. I guess that's why you guys living at the east coast had to experience some delay with shipping, maybe.


----------



## OldRoadToad

Hail and well met!
  
 In keeping with the spirit of their ad campaign (Pull Quote Alert!) ..."for the music you have, not the music you have to buy", I will be using any new amp (and this one is in serious contention) for listening to records and perhaps to internet radio (no digital output on my source so RCA out to the amp it shall be).  The other amp I am considering is their more upscale Valhalla 2 (four times the glow for just over twice the dough).
  
 Both the Vali 2 and Valhalla 2 feed the romantic in me.  The fourteen year old Toad used to babysit for a young couple back in Hawaii over 40 years ago and they would always, _always _have George Harrison's magnum opus, "All Things Must Pass" ready for my listening pleasure on a Teac 10" reel to reel (VU meters rule !) and when home it was ever at the ready on my GE Wildcat portable stereo phonograph.  I would turn out all the lights and bask in the music and soft glow of said VU meters as well as the lights from the attendant equipment.  I  would listen and dream of what the future might hold.
  
 Well, the future for that 14 year old is here.  And I want a taste of the past to make it all the more palatable, so ...
  
 I am slowly becoming an enthusiast of the medium of vinyl again as I like to have a hard copy of music that I truly enjoy and having grown up with records I have begun to purchase them again but only titles I really want. 
  
 Perhaps an addendum to the aforementioned ad could read *..."and the music you want to own.  Again." *?
  
 This jewel of an amplifier is something of a WayBack Machine that Mr. Peabody would be proud to own and use. Call me Sherman.


----------



## BenWaB3

e8armydiver said:


> APPJ Audio amp came in last night.Set up & ran for 10 hours before listening.With stock Chinese tubes pretty much a dead ringer tonally for the Vali 2 with a bit wider SS & NONE of the sibilance exhibited by the V2.Rolled in 3 perfectly matched & balanced Mullard Tubes(1953 & 1959) & the amp became a MONSTER!EVERYTHING I could have dreamed of & it's only got a few hours on the new tubes!ABSOLUTE Heaven!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## painted klown

homeyjojo said:


> When you bring it up from 0, the right ear comes up first.
> 
> @RyanRoloYo


 
  
 This.
  
 However, one the left channel comes in, there is no further imbalance, and the turn on the knob to get the left channel to come in, is very, very slight,


tuneslover said:


> I have the 598SE and to my ears it sounds very good with my Modi and Magni 2U on my iMac (iTunes 16/44.1). However I'm wondering how (better, different or same) it would sound with a Vali2. I worry if I can only live with the stock tube as I don't want to spend more on a couple of tubes than the Vali2 itself but many have reported that the stock tube is very good with the Vali2.


 
 I have the original 598 and they sound great on the Vali 2. Using them now actually, to listen to some Bach. The great thing about this pairing is that the Vali 2 keeps the 598's pretty "even keeled" sounding and helps to fill in the bass a bit when compared to my Emotiva DC-1's HP amp. From what I have read on the 598SE thread, the differences in sound between the beige 598 and the black SE version are pretty much accounted for in manufacturing tolerances. I think you will be quite pleased with this pairing. For the record, I use the 598 on the low gain setting.
   
Quote:



homeyjojo said:


> Pairing with the TH-X00:
> 
> Its an interesting pairing to be sure. These cans with the original Vali were too warm I would say. As it has been said before, the Vali 2 is a bit more neutral, making it a better pairing with the Th-X00.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for your review.
  
 I agree about the gain switch filling out bass on various headphones. I am tempted to put it in high gain mode and just leave it there, but the only headphones I have the really need it are my HD-650's, so I find myself flipping the switch when I listen to another pair of cans.


----------



## volly

Well, I've been listening to the Vali 2 since Christmas and I've still enjoying the heck out this little guy!
  
 I've also been keeping tabs on this forum and it's post, it's interesting to read "some" of members thoughts.
  
 I haven't been to hasty to impart my "final thoughts" of the Vali 2 but rather keeping in the spirit of this thread, being that it really is an "Official Schiit Vali 2" thread and really nothing more or less?!
  
 Anyways, I've had a chance to give this amp a solid run and it's integrated quite well in to my setup, currently running Halide Devilsound\Vali 2 (Stock tube)\Philips X2. 
  
 I originally ran the amp in Low gain mode and enjoyed very low noise floor whilst breaking in the new amp/tube.
  
 I've later switched over to High gain and don't mind a very low but detectable hum. 
  
 I feel, when in low gain, the X2's sound fantastic and polite. With the volume knob at a comfortable 11 o'clock position. Switched over to High gain after about a week, and I just prefer it more now! 
  
 The music is more fleshed out and more dynamic, certain passages in songs go from soft lulls or trickling water to crescendos of raging torrents while watching (metaphorically) through a clear glass window. It's simple time stopping as I get lost in the music!
  
 Certain members say they have experienced sibilance, I have not. Perhaps when the Vali 2 was first ever turned on and tube still in the process breaking in but nothing since. Granted my setup is also tilted towards a Dark/Warm sound compared to others.
  
 Now on to the stock tube, I first stated I'll be listening to the stock tube for a while before changing over. However I do have a tube on it's way but I will say this stock tube is very capable as others have stated. The sounds is clear, dynamic and musical with a very good level of detail!
  
 Compared to my Asgard 2 that I've had with me for many years, the Vali 2 does not take a backwards step in sound. To my ears it still delivers all what the Asgard 2 had to offer but there is an emotional connection to the music now more so than before (Perhaps psycho-acoustics maybe?!) but never the less more musical and less clinical I suppose. 
  
 I was really worried that the Vali 2 would be more a side-grade but I'm really glad that I have it now more than in the beginning, I won't be going back to the Old Asgard 2 for the foreseeable future. Also, it's summer down here in Adelaide (Australia) so I don't miss that big Class A amp-beast-mode Asgard, man does that thing pump out some heat! The smaller foot print is actually a great thing giving me back more desktop space! 
  
 I've actually got to do some head time with the HD600's with the Vali 2 and can say that it definitely sounds better through the Vali 2, but more on that later as the X2's just keep hogging up my time!
  
 BBL.


----------



## bigro

Hmm Now that I have a few weeks on the Vali 2 Im going to have to switch to High Gain Now. Interesting Findings. Thanks for the Info, I am using PSB M4U1's with the Vali 2. I am Curious if I will find the same outcome.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

Hey fellas.I'm sorry I didn't realize anyone was still following me in this thread.The Vali2 is heading back to Schiit as it developed not only a channel inbalance at low level but the 1/4" jack also started shorting out.As for the APPJ,it now has about 40 hours on the NOS Mullard Tubes(1953 12AX7 & 1959 6V6GTY) & my ears are in heaven.I'm going to start a Thread for it in the Amp Forum as I have a feeling it's going to start getting a lot of attention(rightly deserved).I'm really looking forward to making the next Meet in my area so the guys with the real knowledge can give it a listen.


----------



## OldRoadToad

mrpanda said:


> There's some sibilence with the 400i that I was hoping to tame with the tubes that hasn't happened with the two tubes I've tried.  (I listen to a lot of choral music, and extra sibilance in a big reverberant room can sound like a chipmunk convention).  That's not so much a problem with the X2 in general.  Bass is really good with the Vali 2, aa are overall dynamics with both phones, but I was looking for something to smooth out that trouble range in the 400i...


 

 Sibilance is something that I can not abide and hopefully it is confined to the model headphone you mentioned above.  My choice in headphones is rather pedestrian running the gamut from my favorite Superlux 668B to Grado SR225s and the Audio-Technica ATH AD700.  I generally listen at rather low levels but no discernable hiss via to date.   I had been hoping to one day purchase a nice pair of entry level Planars.  Is this anomaly attributable to tube powered amps or just something that sometimes occurs regardless of amplification?
  
 I primarily listen to traditional Jazz and Pop vocals with some Classic Rock thrown in when the mood strikes me.
  
 I know of the potential for "ringing" that is a tube trait but expect no such problem for myself but would appreciate any guidance on the matter.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

oldroadtoad said:


> Sibilance is something that I can not abide and hopefully it is confined to the model headphone you mentioned above.  My choice in headphones is rather pedestrian running the gamut from my favorite Superlux 668B to Grado SR225s and the Audio-Technica ATH AD700.  I generally listen at rather low levels but no discernable hiss via to date.   I had been hoping to one day purchase a nice pair of entry level Planars.  Is this anomaly attributable to tube powered amps or just something that sometimes occurs regardless of amplification?
> 
> I primarily listen to traditional Jazz and Pop vocals with some Classic Rock thrown in when the mood strikes me.
> 
> I know of the potential for "ringing" that is a tube trait but expect no such problem for myself but would appreciate any guidance on the matter.


 
 NO ABSOLUTELY NOT the HE-400i's! Go back  look at all my posts on the Vali2,SIBILANCE was noted in all  my notes.Now with the all tube APPJ amp the 400i's are simply glorious!


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

mrpanda said:


> There's some sibilence with the 400i that I was hoping to tame with the tubes that hasn't happened with the two tubes I've tried.  (I listen to a lot of choral music, and extra sibilance in a big reverberant room can sound like a chipmunk convention).  That's not so much a problem with the X2 in general.  Bass is really good with the Vali 2, aa are overall dynamics with both phones, but I was looking for something to smooth out that trouble range in the 400i...


 
 There is NO trouble range,it's the amp.


----------



## mysticstryk

mrpanda said:


> There's some sibilence with the 400i that I was hoping to tame with the tubes that hasn't happened with the two tubes I've tried.  (I listen to a lot of choral music, and extra sibilance in a big reverberant room can sound like a chipmunk convention).  That's not so much a problem with the X2 in general.  Bass is really good with the Vali 2, aa are overall dynamics with both phones, but I was looking for something to smooth out that trouble range in the 400i...




Probably the spike at 8khz. EQ that down a few db, should take care of that spike.


----------



## HOWIE13

If it's any help, I found sibilance a fairly regular feature of many 6DJ8 tubes, using amps other than Schiit's, which I haven't yet tried.
 When I switched to the lower amplification (though still amply loud) Russian 6n6p tubes there was no sibilance problem. These tubes are warmer, though slightly less detailed, than some 6DJ8's in my experience, but to my ears suit choral music very well. I think you can use them with Vali 2, though best to check with Schiit first. 
 Incidently, I would like to purchase a Vali 2 (or Valhalla) but there are none yet being shipped to the official UK seller and he is out of stock of Valhallas too.
 I find that very annoying.


----------



## Designer79

@HOWIE13, You don't necessarily need to order through the official UK seller. If you don't mind paying 50 USD for shipping (FedEx International), you can also order directly from Schiit in California. I had to do so as well, because the official European distributor neither accepted payment through PayPal nor a wire transfer. Of course in case of any return or a technical issue You'd need to send the gear back to the US. Funny, even with shipping and the expected vat the order directly from Schiit turns out to be cheaper than through the European distributor. Cheers.


----------



## HOWIE13

designer79 said:


> @HOWIE13, You don't necessarily need to order through the official UK seller. If you don't mind paying 50 USD for shipping (FedEx International), you can also order directly from Schiit in California. I had to do so as well, because the official European distributor neither accepted payment through PayPal nor a wire transfer. Of course in case of any return or a technical issue You'd need to send the gear back to the US. Funny, even with shipping and the expected vat the order directly from Schiit turns out to be cheaper than through the European distributor. Cheers.


 
 Thanks for your help Designer79
 I did some maths this afternoon and the US price plus UK VAT/Royal Mail processing fee comes to around the same as the total UK price plus shipping. Unfortunately, then I need to add shipping from the US which is $38 for tracked/insured delivery.
 It just annoys and bothers me that a company as universal as Schiit can't get their sales outlets stocked in a timely manner. 
 In addition it's so frustrating reading how you are all having so much fun!


----------



## valarking

So my parents asked me what I wanted for Christmas and I said the Vali. I wanted to try it out again my Magni 2U and use one at work and one at home. 

Just my luck (and probably several others'), after they got it, Schiit added Vali 2 to their product list. I just got the Vali itself from my parents and was thinking of calling Schiit and asking if it's ok to pay the price difference + shipping and swap it for the new one.

Assuming they will do this, is it a strict upgrade that's worth the time and hassle or is it more of a sidegrade like the Magni 2U to Vali 1 was? This would be into HD600s.


----------



## Currawong

The sibilance thing is interesting. I guess with different headphones, that is similar to what I was experiencing when I felt the stock tube is forward and a bit aggressive. I'm glad to get a difference perspective on that. Funnily enough I was scratching my head about the tube complement in my Studio Six and found, of all things, a Russian metal-base 6N8S solved a similar issue when I swapped it in. At least the Vali 2 only has one tube. 6 can be a PITA to synergise!
  
 Quote:


valarking said:


> So my parents asked me what I wanted for Christmas and I said the Vali. I wanted to try it out again my Magni 2U and use one at work and one at home.
> 
> Just my luck (and probably several others'), after they got it, Schiit added Vali 2 to their product list. I just got the Vali itself from my parents and was thinking of calling Schiit and asking if it's ok to pay the price difference + shipping and swap it for the new one.
> 
> Assuming they will do this, is it a strict upgrade that's worth the time and hassle or is it more of a sidegrade like the Magni 2U to Vali 1 was? This would be into HD600s.


 

 They have a re-stocking fee, but if it is within two weeks of purchase they'll do it AFAIK.


----------



## h2rulz

valarking said:


> So my parents asked me what I wanted for Christmas and I said the Vali. I wanted to try it out again my Magni 2U and use one at work and one at home.
> 
> Just my luck (and probably several others'), after they got it, Schiit added Vali 2 to their product list. I just got the Vali itself from my parents and was thinking of calling Schiit and asking if it's ok to pay the price difference + shipping and swap it for the new one.
> 
> Assuming they will do this, is it a strict upgrade that's worth the time and hassle or is it more of a sidegrade like the Magni 2U to Vali 1 was? This would be into HD600s.


 

 Was in the same position and had my Vali exchanged for the Vali 2. Only had to pay for shipping the Vali back to Schiit. You don't pay the restocking fee since you're getting another one of their products. Just fill out the form online and you'll get an email with instructions for return.
 Just let them know when you're filling out the return form that you'll be getting the Vali 2.
  
 As for wether it is an upgrade,
 Personally, the elimination of ringing, gain switch, matching brushed metal finish with the uber series, and the ability to roll tubes are enough to be considered an upgrade.
 I also find them an upgrade in sound (although the stock tubes are forward and a bit aggressive as Currawong stated above, despite the improved soundstage and low end.).
 And you do have the ability to customize the sound with the right tubes.


----------



## hagenhays

I see what all of the fuss is about. I'm hearing details in cds that I've never heard before. And there's finally some bass present in my Senny. 598s. I don't think I could tell the difference between swapping tubes at this point, but it sure sounds crystal clear. For giggles I streamed some 320mp3s and they sounded horrible in comparison. 

What are people's opinions of CD vs flac rips? Just wonder if it's ever worth my time to rip my top cds at some point to flac and put them on a drive?

Sorry to get off track.


----------



## NewEinstein

I just received my Vali 2 today ... also my first piece of Schiit equipment

running a chain like this right now: Foobar (FLAC) - USB WASAPI output - Audioengine D1 DAC - RCA pre-out - Schiit Vali 2 with stock tube - Senn HD 650

I guess I will stay with the stock tube for a few weeks until it is fully burned in. I want to get a feeling for the sound first to know what direction I want to go with another tube.

---

I dont have much to compare it to. I can just say that it sounds better than directly out of the D1 ... not really surprising though as it also has a lot more power to control the 650s. Will be interesting how much it improves further during the burn in (especially for the tube)

I will soon meet up with some friends ... then I should be able to give a better comparison with other amps (and we can maybe test other headphones on it as well)

I have seen that someone wants to bring the Garage1217 Solstice to the HeadFi meet here in Boulder in three weeks. Will try to compare those as some people requested that.


----------



## painted klown

hagenhays said:


> I see what all of the fuss is about. I'm hearing details in cds that I've never heard before. And there's finally some bass present in my Senny. 598s. I don't think I could tell the difference between swapping tubes at this point, but it sure sounds crystal clear. For giggles I streamed some 320mp3s and they sounded horrible in comparison.
> 
> What are people's opinions of CD vs flac rips? Just wonder if it's ever worth my time to rip my top cds at some point to flac and put them on a drive?
> 
> Sorry to get off track.


 
  
 Congrats on the new amp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To answer your question RE: Ripping your CDs.
  
 IMO, yes, it is worth the time to rip your CDs to a drive and have them all conveniently located on your computer. If you play your CD player and PC/Mac though the same DAC, you should hear zero differences, at least not enough to be able to tell them apart in a blind listening test. FLAC, ALAC, WAV, WMA Lossless, etc are all good to use, depending on your needs and sources. If you decide to rip your CDs to your drive, just be sure to use a lossless format (such as FLAC that you asked about).
  
 A great (free) tool to us is Exact Audio Copy, if you want to rip to FLAC. It can be downloaded here: http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/en/index.php/resources/download/
  
 Alternately, if you are using Apple devices, you can simply download the latest version of iTunes and set it to import lossless as ALAC. You can also tick the box to do error correction while ripping. It takes longer, but IMO, the peace of mind is worth it. This is what I do as I have an iPhone 6.
  
 If you do not want to hassle with downloading new software (and your on a Windows PC), you can simply use Windows Media Center to rip to lossless WMA files.
  
 Any of these will essentially be a "bit perfect" copy of your physical discs and will sound exactly the same as spinning the silver circle.
  
 Once your music is all ripped to your computer, you can use Foobar 2000 (it's free and great) as your playback software. It seems to play just about everything under the sun (audio files) and with wasapi out, you have a perfect bit stream to send to your DAC for decoding.
  
 Good luck, and if you have any additional questions, please feel free to ask. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Quote:


neweinstein said:


> I just received my Vali 2 today ... also my first piece of Schiit equipment
> 
> running a chain like this right now: Foobar (FLAC) - USB WASAPI output - Audioengine D1 DAC - RCA pre-out - Schiit Vali 2 with stock tube - Senn HD 650
> 
> ...


 
 Our systems are nearly identical. The only difference is our DACs. In my case, I am using an Emotiva DC-1. I imagine there is very little (to no) differences in the way our systems sound.  This is a great sounding chain IMO. The 650's seem to do VERY well with the Vali 2. Better than I have heard them before (from my portable devices and Emotiva's headphone amp), and the smooth and forgiving nature of the 650's allow you to play VERY loud with no stridency issues at all.
  
 A match made in heaven IMO!. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Congrats on the new amp! Please keep us updated with your thoughts as you put it through its paces.


----------



## valarking

hagenhays said:


> I see what all of the fuss is about. I'm hearing details in cds that I've never heard before. And there's finally some bass present in my Senny. 598s. I don't think I could tell the difference between swapping tubes at this point, but it sure sounds crystal clear. For giggles I streamed some 320mp3s and they sounded horrible in comparison.
> 
> What are people's opinions of CD vs flac rips? Just wonder if it's ever worth my time to rip my top cds at some point to flac and put them on a drive?
> 
> Sorry to get off track.




If the difference between CDs and 320 is horrible on your setup, then rolling tubes should be a night-and-day change in comparison.


----------



## Designer79

Wanna test if your headphone - amp combo is prone to sibilance? There is Pharell Williams' "Happy" (Despicable Me 2 OST) ... If ever there was a treble happy soundengineer mastering songs, he worked on this track. Listening to it right now on Tidal Hifi, it's definitely a good test recording for male vocal sibilance. I still haven't received the Vali 2 / Modi 2 U combo yet, so listening to the song directly through my current chain (HTPC running Tidal HiFi --> Direct Out --> Logitech Z 5000 internal DAC --> Beyerdynamic T90). Far from a good sounding setup yet, I know ... But definitely a very revealing headphone!


----------



## Currawong

Big and small, just for fun:


----------



## jaywillin

currawong said:


> Big and small, just for fun:


 
 this could be a "caption contest" 
  
 "giant killer" 
 "and the effect of the tube dampeners brought the vali 2 dangerously close to that of the alo"


----------



## hagenhays

At some point...like this summer when I have the time I will try ripping my cds to flac...I have around 450, so it will take a good while. It would be nice to have a digital copy of all my musi for backup. 

In the meantime...does anyone have any good recommendations for a sub $300 CD player? Or am I just better off using my cheap blu Ray through my modi (which I'm currently doing.) I'm sort of under the impression that digital out is digital out and your dac won't know the difference between blu Ray or CD? 

Guess I just need to roll up my sleeves and convert them all to flac. I need someone here with common sense to make the decision for me. I think the 320 stream sounded scrappy because it was spitify from iPod streamed over airplay to Apple tv to dac...just a hunch !!

Painted klown please help me out.


----------



## Tunkejazz

If you have a dedicated dac with spdif input, almost any bluray/dvd/cd could be used as a transport.

I have no experience with blurays, I like the pro-ject cd box S. Very small footprint, it can be used as a transport and I believe it has a decent dac built-in...for that price.

Good luck!

EDIT: I strongly recommend to rip to a lossless format: flac, alac, ape...you can always create mp3s or m4a from those very easily.

For macs a good ripping software is XLD (free).


----------



## Letmebefrank

currawong said:


> Big and small, just for fun:




What are the metal clips you have on some of the tubes and the headphone cable end?


----------



## Capt369

hagenhays said:


> At some point...like this summer when I have the time I will try ripping my cds to flac...I have around 450, so it will take a good while. It would be nice to have a digital copy of all my musi for backup.
> 
> In the meantime...does anyone have any good recommendations for a sub $300 CD player? Or am I just better off using my cheap blu Ray through my modi (which I'm currently doing.) I'm sort of under the impression that digital out is digital out and your dac won't know the difference between blu Ray or CD?
> 
> ...


 
 Onkyo c-7030...check it out on Amazon. Great reviews. I have it and love it. Great onboard Wolfson dac. About $180.


----------



## hagenhays

I'm attempting some lossless rips right now. But my ancient CD/DVD drive doesn't eject very well.

Anyone got advice for a portable usb input CD burner for computer.


Sorry. I'm probably derailing this thread..... Will listen to my wma lossless in a bit. Hoping I can't tell a difference with CD.

I really appreciate the helpful feedback. I would have never in a million year's thought to rip music. Not that I'm that behind the times, but mp3s always sounded like crap to me. I'm used to 128 crap quality. This totally changes my game plan altogether.


----------



## Letmebefrank

hagenhays said:


> I'm attempting some lossless rips right now. But my ancient CD/DVD drive doesn't eject very well.
> 
> Anyone got advice for a portable CD burner for computer.
> 
> Sorry. I'm probably derailing this thread..... Will listen to my wma lossless in a bit. Hoping I can't tell a difference with CD.




I use dbPoweramp to rip cds to flac/alac. Not sure how good lossless wma sounds as I have never used it.
Here's a link to a decent drive for cheap.


----------



## hagenhays

I tried Windows media lossless. Got a few put on the computer, put them on a flash, and plugged into my cheaply made blu Ray player.....I'm sure you know where I'm going with this....my blu Ray wouldn't read it. But at least I get the gist.

Here's my question....what can I use to store and play flac files through my modi besides my computer....or do you have to do that? I would like to have a portable drive for the music but am wondering if there's a way to run that to a dac without the use of the computer?
I read squeezebox..but from 2012. I need to get with the times!!!!


----------



## OldRoadToad

capt369 said:


> Onkyo c-7030...check it out on Amazon. Great reviews. I have it and love it. Great onboard Wolfson dac. About $180.


 

 Thanks for the recommendation.  I will look into this one as I am already an Onkyo fan.  A friend needs a new CD player for home use with a smaller footprint than this and digital outputs so any thoughts from all here would be welcome.
  
 The Toad


----------



## Currawong

letmebefrank said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > Big and small, just for fun:
> ...


 
  
 Herbies Tube Dampers. They have cable dampers as well, which I was trying experimentally. Since I still had them, i just put them on the HP cables, though they are more useful at the moment stopping the cable rolling off my desk when unplugged!  I also only have two dampers on the right-hand tube because I was too lazy to put the second one back in my drawer.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

Herbie makes great stuff as shown above.  Highly recommended.  They're just not needed for my submini 6088s in my Vali 
  
  
 BTW there's even Herbie's AudioLab HAL-O Jr damper for tonearms (shown here on my table):


----------



## Letmebefrank

bob a (sd) said:


> Herbie makes great stuff as shown above.  Highly recommended.  They're just not needed for my submini 6088s in my Vali
> 
> 
> BTW there's even Herbie's AudioLab HAL-O Jr damper for tonearms (shown here on my table):




I'm guessing the dampers help reduce microphonics?


----------



## Bob A (SD)

Yup


----------



## volly

Back on track...
  

  
 What can't it do, low gain and no discernible noise floor! 
  
 Surprisingly good pairing!
  
 Note: After a few weeks, I feel the amp/tube is still opening up.
  
 Without using too much "audiophile" terms, the music is flowing much more effortlessly while still showing an admirable amount of technical prowess!
  
 Like a fine wine!


----------



## jfoxvol

Happy day. Don't worry, the 12ax7 on top is not for this amp. It's for a noisy guitar amp in need of a Tung Sol at V1.


----------



## jfoxvol

Note the ridiculous size of the 6CG7.  Most impressive.  The 5670W JAN tubes are quite tiny.  I imagine that removing with having a socket saver in place might be an exercise in patience.  I've listened to the new 6CG7 EH right out of the box with a little warm up and it sounds good.  Won't say more until I let it burn in this week.  So far so good.


----------



## Astral Abyss

jfoxvol said:


> Note the ridiculous size of the 6CG7.  Most impressive.  The 5670W JAN tubes are quite tiny.  I imagine that removing with having a socket saver in place might be an exercise in patience.  I've listened to the new 6CG7 EH right out of the box with a little warm up and it sounds good.  Won't say more until I let it burn in this week.  So far so good.


 
  
 Doesn't the 5670 have different pinouts?  It's my understanding you need an adapter to run them.  Be careful.


----------



## Soepkip

I want to start investigating tubes and the Vali 2 is on top of my wishlist.
 Since I mostly own IEMs, is the Vali 2 usable with IEMs?


----------



## jfoxvol

astral abyss said:


> Doesn't the 5670 have different pinouts?  It's my understanding you need an adapter to run them.  Be careful.


 
 Yeah wasn't sure.  I grabbed a few for five bucks a pop.  I wasn't sure whether it had different pin out or not.  Thanks for the heads up.  I have never used this type before.


----------



## jfoxvol

soepkip said:


> I want to start investigating tubes and the Vali 2 is on top of my wishlist.
> Since I mostly own IEMs, is the Vali 2 usable with IEMs?


 
 It should be.  The noise in low gain is quite low and Schiit recommends this amp from IEMs up to most planar headphones.  I don't use IEMs but have several efficient headphones and have had no issues with noise.


----------



## Soepkip

Good to hear that is has low noise level. According to Schiit the noise on the first Vali was too high for IEMs. Apparently that was fixed for the second iteration of the Vali.
  
 Now I have to really think hard and count my pennies.
 Buy a new Vali 2.
 Or opt for a good 2nd hand Lyr 2 at 1.5 the Vali price.
 Or a new Vali 2 and Modi 2 Uber.
 Or...etc
  
 Life is full of difficult choices and luxury problems.


----------



## jfoxvol

soepkip said:


> Good to hear that is has low noise level. According to Schiit the noise on the first Vali was too high for IEMs. Apparently that was fixed for the second iteration of the Vali.
> 
> Now I have to really think hard and count my pennies.
> Buy a new Vali 2.
> ...




Go check out the faq on the site. The Vali 2 is now quite feature laden. Jason has a chapter on it as well. It sounds great.


----------



## painted klown

hagenhays said:


> I tried Windows media lossless. Got a few put on the computer, put them on a flash, and plugged into my cheaply made blu Ray player.....I'm sure you know where I'm going with this....my blu Ray wouldn't read it. But at least I get the gist.
> 
> Here's my question....what can I use to store and play flac files through my modi besides my computer....or do you have to do that? I would like to have a portable drive for the music but am wondering if there's a way to run that to a dac without the use of the computer?
> I read squeezebox..but from 2012. I need to get with the times!!!!


 
  
 I replied to your PM.
 Can you please tell us the model of stand along blu-ray player you have? Then we can give you specific answers that will get you up an running. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


jfoxvol said:


> It should be.  The noise in low gain is quite low and Schiit recommends this amp from IEMs up to most planar headphones.  I don't use IEMs but have several efficient headphones and have had no issues with noise.


 
  
 +1
  
 You should be good to go. IMO the low gain mode is nice and quiet, however I do not have any iems. With earbuds, though, it's quiet. Similar application albeit not exactly the same thing.
  
 Quote:


soepkip said:


> Good to hear that is has low noise level. According to Schiit the noise on the first Vali was too high for IEMs. Apparently that was fixed for the second iteration of the Vali.
> 
> Now I have to really think hard and count my pennies.
> Buy a new Vali 2.
> ...


 
 First world problems...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Personally, I like buying new gear, but if your not opposed to buying used, find a killer deal on a Lyr 2, and it fits your budget, then I see no reason to not jump in.
  
 Having said that, I LOVE my Vali 2. It's a killer little amp, and the price is right! Please note that I have not heard a Lyr 2 to compare it to, however.
  
 Good luck with whatever you choose!


----------



## Capt369

painted klown said:


> I replied to your PM.
> Can you please tell us the model of stand along blu-ray player you have? Then we can give you specific answers that will get you up an running.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The only problem with buying used schiit gear is that it negates the 5 year warranty.


----------



## painted klown

capt369 said:


> The only problem with buying used schiit gear is that it negates the 5 year warranty.


 
 And this is exactly the reason I like to buy my gear new. I don't want to sacrifice a warranty for a few bucks off, especially when you get into some more expensive gear. The risk is just not worth it IMO.
  
 Heck, I once got burned on a used pair of Magnepan MMGs!!! Those are only $600 new and some jerk felt it was a good idea to try to rip me off...it's a sad world out there. PayPal made right on my claim, but I was still out shipping costs (about $60) to send the Maggies back to the seller.
  
 Now I always buy new and from authorizes sellers only. Anything else is too risky IMO.


----------



## lvince95

painted klown said:


> And this is exactly the reason I like to buy my gear new. I don't want to sacrifice a warranty for a few bucks off, especially when you get into some more expensive gear. The risk is just not worth it IMO.
> 
> Heck, I once got burned on a used pair of Magnepan MMGs!!! Those are only $600 new and some jerk felt it was a good idea to try to rip me off...it's a sad world out there. PayPal made right on my claim, but I was still out shipping costs (about $60) to send the Maggies back to the seller.
> 
> Now I always buy new and from authorizes sellers only. Anything else is too risky IMO.


 

 For me, I just like my new gear clean, shiny and oil-free. Not spotted with dandruff and covered with oil.


----------



## painted klown

lvince95 said:


> For me, I just like my new gear clean, shiny and oil-free. Not spotted with dandruff and covered with oil.


 

 LOL! Good point.
  
 I just worry about how well the gear was treated prior to me owning it. I know how I take care of my gear, but not how well others do. I love my gear, so I treat it with love.
  
 Color me paranoid!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  


jfoxvol said:


> Happy day. Don't worry, the 12ax7 on top is not for this amp. It's for a noisy guitar amp in need of a Tung Sol at V1.


 
  
  

 Very nice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It looks like you have some good times in your immediate future. Please let us know how the tube rolling goes. I am far too broke to do it right now, so I have to live vicariously through the rest of you.


----------



## MrPanda

What do you think of the 6CG7 with the Vali 2?  I have a matched Electroharmonix one


----------



## jfoxvol

mrpanda said:


> What do you think of the 6CG7 with the Vali 2?  I have a matched Electroharmonix one


 
 I have the same type.  It's only been in for a few hours but so far it sounds quite good.  I'll hold off detailed comments until it has had a good 100 hours.  I can say for sure it was a good purchase.


----------



## jfoxvol

painted klown said:


> Very nice!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The stock tube is absolutely great.  I've got 70 or so hours on it now and I'm a big fan.  Jason and Mike picked it for a reason.  I can say that I am really liking the 6CG7.  A new one runs less than 20 bucks.  I'd start there.  You'll probably end there.  I got the others to use with this and some other projects I plan on building.


----------



## hagenhays

Samsung 5700

But I think I found a solution. I have an android gbox mini drive that was put away. A streamer like android Apple-type streamer drive. I downloaded the vlc mp3 decoder. Plugged in a flash...bingo, jackpot I'm on board. Still need to 're rip files however cause I used Windows media lossless and they are huge.

Is the reason flac is popular because the data size per song is a lot lower but still high quality. My rips now arefreaking huge..like 40 mb a song!!
What's flac average size?

And can someone recommend me some flac ripping software. Is there an app from the Google store or something?

*Edit* Android gbox has hdmi to tv, but it down streams the audio according to specs.

Suggestions for blu Ray player that supports usb lossless formats like flac?

Thanks.
Cheers!!


----------



## volly

Tube Enthusiast, come at me!

  

  

  

  
 I've read around and supposedly 7DJ8's is an alternative replacement to the 6DJ8 / 6922. 
  
Will this tube play nicely with the Vali 2?
  
Open to feedback Tube guys!


----------



## jaywillin

volly said:


> Tube Enthusiast, come at me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 yes, it'll work


----------



## volly

Thanks for the reply mate, got on to Schiit via email and they seem to be not so keen on the tube series and just keep what they recommend on the site.
  
 I quoate:
  
"We recommend sticking with the 6DJ8 and other compatible tube listed on the product page for proper operation."
  Nick T
 Schiit Tech

  
 Hrmmmm...not sure on this now!


----------



## lvince95

volly said:


> Thanks for the reply mate, got on to Schiit via email and they seem to be not so keen on the tube series and just keep what they recommend on the site.
> 
> I quoate:
> 
> ...


----------



## volly

ROFL, can of worms we have uncovered!!
  
 Cheers Vince!


----------



## Tuneslover

jfoxvol said:


>


 
 My Vali2 arrived yesterday.  First I will burn it and the stock tube in for 2 straight days.  Then I'll insert it into my main 2 channel rig, which includes the Bifrost Uber to see how the Vali2 sounds.  Very early impressions on my alternate rig are...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My 4490 upgrade board for the Bifrost should be arriving today or tomorrow but I'll hold off with the installation until I have had ample time to hear the Vali2/Bifrost Uber combo against my current headphone amp, the Lake People G109S/Bifrost Uber combo.


----------



## jlangholzj

astral abyss said:


> Doesn't the 5670 have different pinouts?  It's my understanding you need an adapter to run them.  Be careful.


 
  
 Tis true. In my initial flury of head-scratching about tubes that could work I overlooked that fact. Still looks like a fun little preamp tube for the $5 you find em for, I'll just buy the poor sod a case of beer and use the 5670's somewhere along the way.


----------



## sheldaze

tuneslover said:


> My Vali2 arrived yesterday.  First I will burn it and the stock tube in for 2 straight days.  Then I'll insert it into my main 2 channel rig, which includes the Bifrost Uber to see how the Vali2 sounds.  Very early impressions on my alternate rig are...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm very curious what you think, once you upgrade to the 4490.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



It's been difficult to locate someone who has heard both the Uber and 4490.
 I upgraded from Uber to Bifrost, and so did everyone else I know locally.
 But I suspect, from having heard the 4490 in other implementations, it is a significant upgrade too.
  


 I'm not using the Bifrost, but I am using a 4490 chip from m9xx into my Vali 2.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

I just ordered one of these. It'll be my first piece of Schiit gear. I'm looking forward to trying out a few different tubes, although for the moment I'll just use the stock and see how I like it.
  
 I'm planning on getting a Gumby in May, I heard that's very resolving, sometimes to a fault, so I figured a tube amp like this might help smooth things out just a bit.
  
 Either way, I'm looking forward to playing with it, especially with my Grado 225e!


----------



## Makiah S

well I'm going to open up a can of worms here 
  
 how many of you guys have purchased the Vali 2, as your first Hybrid Tube?


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

I have a tube pre-amp in my analog vinyl chain, but this is my first tube hybrid headphone amp.


----------



## Tuneslover

mshenay said:


> well I'm going to open up a can of worms here
> 
> how many of you guys have purchased the Vali 2, as your first Hybrid Tube?




I did.
Originally I was going for the Project Ember but decided to go with the Vali2, however may still get the Ember at a later date. The Vali2 was a relatively inexpensive way to introduce myself to a tube hybrid amp.


----------



## Makiah S

merrick said:


> I have a tube pre-amp in my analog vinyl chain, but this is my first tube hybrid headphone amp.


 
 I doubt I'll get a bunch of people to answer
  
 non the less, my point  I've had both the Schiit Vali 2 an Garage 1217 Starlight II [there's a mouthful lol] an after a few weeks with them both, I really preffering the Starlight II in terms of sound quality
  
 though what I've found with that particullar amp is... it's very finnicky, while one it hand yes it sounds better than the Vali, on the other hand if you didn't set the bias right or you have the output impedance incorrect then it sounds rather poor
  
 That said, I'm starting to see the Vali 2 as a very good option for your first tube! It's powerful, inexpensive, has both input an outputs in case you'd like to use it with like speakers, an gives you teh chance to roll tubes!
  
 Though compared to another Hybrid in the same price range, while it falls short on overall sound quality. It makes up for simply because it's 100% plug an play! Yea it sounds better after it warms up, but it's a very easy amp to own! Where as my StarLight II... ugh I spent like an hour fine tuning the bias [twice] an another figuring out which OutPut resistance sounded best with my Dac/Headphones xD 
  
 Either way, I think for those of you who've purchased the Vali 2 as your first hybrid tube. Your In for a treat an you made a very smart move!


----------



## volly

This one is my second. My first was a hybrid tube amp made by a member of headfi a while back, which I don't think is around any more!


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

mshenay said:


> I doubt I'll get a bunch of people to answer
> 
> non the less, my point  I've had both the Schiit Vali 2 an Garage 1217 Starlight II [there's a mouthful lol] an after a few weeks with them both, I really preffering the Starlight II in terms of sound quality
> 
> ...


 
  
 Awesome! I definitely don't want something finicky to start out. Really looking forward to putting the Vali 2 through its paces.


----------



## Makiah S

volly said:


> This one is my second. My first was a hybrid tube amp made by a member of headfi a while back, which I don't think is around any more!


 
  
  


tuneslover said:


> I did.
> Originally I was going for the Project Ember but decided to go with the Vali2, however may still get the Ember at a later date. The Vali2 was a relatively inexpensive way to introduce myself to a tube hybrid amp.


 
  
 Given the price an the ease of ownership, I think the Vali 2 is a great way to start. Though if you'r looking to upgrade the Ember 2 would be the way to go imo
  


merrick said:


> Awesome! I definitely don't want something finicky to start out. Really looking forward to putting the Vali 2 through its paces.


 
 Hahaha, honestly I... had to SOLVE the puzzle that was tube amps. I must have bought like 3 multi meters the first time I tried to "roll" a tube into my little Indeed G3 back in the day
  
 Ahh but yea, the Vali 2 is a VERY easy way to get into tubes 
  
 But amps like the Garage 1217 [Also the LEGENDARY Blue Hawaii Tube also needs manual Bias Adjustments] an other finicky tube amps are WELL worth the time an attention they require, though you need to like how tubes sound in general before you can really enjoy devoting the time an energy needed owning an rolling them


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

mshenay said:


> Hahaha, honestly I... had to SOLVE the puzzle that was tube amps. I must have bought like 3 multi meters the first time I tried to "roll" a tube into my little Indeed G3 back in the day
> 
> Ahh but yea, the Vali 2 is a VERY easy way to get into tubes
> 
> But amps like the Garage 1217 [Also the LEGENDARY Blue Hawaii Tube also needs manual Bias Adjustments] an other finicky tube amps are WELL worth the time an attention they require, though you need to like how tubes sound in general before you can really enjoy devoting the time an energy needed owning an rolling them


 
  
 It sounds like if anything is going to get me into tubes, it'll be the Vali. Then I can decide if it's worth it to try my hand at some of the more finicky amps.
  
 Is the Mjolnir 2 more and less plug and play as well? I know it's higher end, but I haven't heard much about it being tough to handle.


----------



## Makiah S

merrick said:


> It sounds like if anything is going to get me into tubes, it'll be the Vali. Then I can decide if it's worth it to try my hand at some of the more finicky amps.
> 
> Is the Mjolnir 2 more and less plug and play as well? I know it's higher end, but I haven't heard much about it being tough to handle.


 
 Oh crap... there's a Hybrid Tube Variant out now :O 
  
 yea I've no idea about that one! But I'm very happy you mentioned it! I've been looking for a Balanced Tube, well I've been looking for a FULLY balanced Tube amp [the kind with like 6 tubes] But  Honestly it might be something to try for sure!


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Unless something else more interesting comes out in the interim, I'll probably get the Mjolnir 2 in 2017. I also prefer balanced playback, and I wouldn't even have bothered with a single-ended amp except that I wanted to try tube rolling to make sure it's for me without making a huge cash outlay, and also because I love Grados and want to try tubes with mine (and since none of those are balanced without paying money for an expensive mod, or learning how to mod them myself, all I need for that is single-ended). The money I spent on the Vali wouldn't have gotten me the Mjolnir any faster, so it'll be a nice stepping stone for this year into next year. I will be getting a Gumby this year, again unless a more interesting balanced multibit/R2R/ladder DAC is released before I'm done saving up for the Gumby.


----------



## volly

I can't give a comparison on garage but I can however compare the Vali 2 to my other amps.
  
 I have (currently) sitting in my draw:
  
 - Asgard 2 
 - Graham Slee Novo
 - Fiio E9
 - 2 x Cmoy amp's by FredFred (Tube/Solid State)
  
 Out of all the above, I have found what I was looking for in the Vali 2. It's a very flexible, well-built, alluring sounding amp with added option of tube rolling.
  
 The Old Asgard 2 was in my chain for a very long time as it did it's job solidly and it would perhaps be an excellent candidate for a beginner or end game amp! (my opinion).
  
 However, I wanted something more from the Asgard 2 that I now have from Vali 2. I have mentioned before that my setup is tilted towards a dark but detailed, warm setup.
  
 It's a kin to my yearning of headphones, I love my HD600's but I'm more drawn to my X2's! 
  
 But for me, the other important link in the chain is my Dac, my Devilsound has also stayed in my setup for a long time too and for good reason! I simply love it! My best sounding Dac out of my collection!
  
 I personally feel that the amp will magnify the characteristics of the Dac but that's another entire conversation for another thread!
  
 I believe, I've found my synergy here folks and this time I ain't afraid to announce it! 
  
 For the record, my sound setup: Halide Devilsound\Vali 2\Philips X2's.


----------



## disastermouse

mshenay said:


> Given the price an the ease of ownership, I think the Vali 2 is a great way to start. Though if you'r looking to upgrade the Ember 2 would be the way to go imo
> 
> Hahaha, honestly I... had to SOLVE the puzzle that was tube amps. I must have bought like 3 multi meters the first time I tried to "roll" a tube into my little Indeed G3 back in the day
> 
> ...



Doesn't the Ember auto-set the bias?


----------



## i20bot

disastermouse said:


> Doesn't the Ember auto-set the bias?


 
 Yeah, Ember does auto bias.


----------



## Tunkejazz

...and Solstice has auto-bias too.


----------



## jaywillin

mshenay said:


> Given the price an the ease of ownership, I think the Vali 2 is a great way to start. Though if you'r looking to upgrade the Ember 2 would be the way to go imo
> 
> Hahaha, honestly I... had to SOLVE the puzzle that was tube amps. I must have bought like 3 multi meters the first time I tried to "roll" a tube into *my little Indeed G3* back in the day
> 
> ...


 
 i wonder where that little g3 is now ?? 
 my first hybrid was a bravo, that started the ball rolling 
  
 i'm going to get another little hybrid now, to get some tubes back in the system, i'm a tube junkie, the gustard h10 i have is awesome, but it doesn't glow ! lol
 i'm just having a hard time deciding between the vali 2, or one of the garage1217 amps, or maybe another ld mk 1+


----------



## disastermouse

jaywillin said:


> i wonder where that little g3 is now ??
> my first hybrid was a bravo, that started the ball rolling
> 
> i'm going to get another little hybrid now, to get some tubes back in the system, i'm a tube junkie, the gustard h10 i have is awesome, but it doesn't glow ! lol
> i'm just having a hard time deciding between the vali 2, or one of the garage1217 amps, or maybe another ld mk 1+



I have a Polaris. I was tempted by the Ember, but I was just afraid that I'd keep futzing with tubes and stop actually listening to the music. Heck, the temptation was there with the Polaris, as it's got eleventy-billion jumper settings to play with.


----------



## jaywillin

disastermouse said:


> I have a Polaris. I was tempted by the Ember, but I was just afraid that I'd keep futzing with tubes and stop actually listening to the music. Heck, the temptation was there with the Polaris, as it's got eleventy-billion jumper settings to play with.


 
 tube rolling can be a expensive, but it doesn't have to be. 
 and it's using cheaper than changing amps


----------



## sheldaze

mshenay said:


> well I'm going to open up a can of worms here
> 
> how many of you guys have purchased the Vali 2, as your first Hybrid Tube?


 
 I believe Vali would have been my first hybrid. But it was much more limited, with a single tube and high output impedance.
  
 So this is the first I've been excited about in a much more general sense of multipurpose usage. With default tube, I can use my Grado. With the right tube, I can still use my HD800 (as was reported to be great with the original Vali).


----------



## BenWaB3

mshenay said:


> well I'm going to open up a can of worms here
> 
> how many of you guys have purchased the Vali 2, as your first Hybrid Tube?


 
  
 My first was the AUNE T1 although I don't know if that qualifies since  it's a DAC/headphone combo.


----------



## rgmffn

sheldaze said:


> I believe Vali would have been my first hybrid. But it was much more limited, with a single tube and high output impedance.
> 
> So this is the first I've been excited about in a much more general sense of multipurpose usage. With default tube, I can use my Grado. With the right tube, I can still use my HD800 (as was reported to be great with the original Vali).


 
 Actually, it had two tubes. Just a correction, carry on.


----------



## sheldaze

rgmffn said:


> Actually, it had two tubes. Just a correction, carry on.


 
 Really?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Interesting...but you get the point. It wasn't a changeable tube. Single tube _option_...


----------



## rgmffn

I got mine...
  

  
 Mine came with an ITT 6BQ7A (Japan)  I haven't seen anyone else mention getting one of these with theirs.
  
 I really tried to like it (the tube that is). I gave it a good 10+ hrs of listening time after about 5 hrs of unattended break-in.  All my comparisons was with the org Vali which I have loved for the last 6 months or more. 
  
 This tube is a bit aggressive. Edgy  It alters the tone of the music also, especially the vocals.  Bass is good tho.  When I then tried it on the high gain setting, it was like, Holy Cow!  Actually, some content sounded incredible!  I listened to a certain 4 or 5 tracks on Dido's - No Angel album 4 times in a row.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But no, you can't run it on high gain.  Not this tube. Not with my setup anyway. It's just too fatiguing. Actually, even on low gain too.  I'm not real happy with it.
  
 So, this is my current chain..
 Emotiva ERC-3 (CD Player) > Emotiva Control Freak > SYS > Vali/Vali2 > Oyaide cable > Fidelio X2s (WOOX Edition)
 Patch cords are all of higher quality - a couple diff brands.
  
 I could tell though, that this thing had potential. There _were_ things I was hearing that I liked over the org Vali.
  
  
 Enter the Electro-Harmonix 6922 EH (Russia)
  

  
 This guy sounds sa_weet!  Nice soundstage & air. (a noticeable improvement) The clarity is ever apparent. Vocal's really stand out. And the bass, oh the bass!  It sounds like it stays flatter, deeper. Nice and tight, and punchy when called for. I'm using it on the low gain setting of course and it's all dead silent between tracks.  It's a fabulous sounding tube to me, especially when compared to the stock one I received with mine. The "tone" is correct with this one too.  Natural sounding and what I'm used to hearing.  Warmer than the ITT fer sure.
  
 This would be a good one to try for those still wanting to do some tube rolling and maybe haven't, and it's not that expensive.
  
 I also have an Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 headed my way.  It should be a great battle.


----------



## Makiah S

merrick said:


> Unless something else more interesting comes out in the interim, I'll probably get the Mjolnir 2 in 2017. I also prefer balanced playback, and I wouldn't even have bothered with a single-ended amp except that I wanted to try tube rolling to make sure it's for me without making a huge cash outlay, and also because I love Grados and want to try tubes with mine (and since none of those are balanced without paying money for an expensive mod, or learning how to mod them myself, all I need for that is single-ended). The money I spent on the Vali wouldn't have gotten me the Mjolnir any faster, so it'll be a nice stepping stone for this year into next year. I will be getting a Gumby this year, again unless a more interesting balanced multibit/R2R/ladder DAC is released before I'm done saving up for the Gumby.


 
 I want to try the Mjolnir my self as well, purely in terms of Price to Performance, the Vali 2 is really stunning, while I think the more Starlight II is better sounding, it lacks the power. My point being, given the price point an the fact that is has tubes... it would be a nice option for powering all my balanced low impedance headphones 
  


disastermouse said:


> I have a Polaris. I was tempted by the Ember, but I was just afraid that I'd keep futzing with tubes and stop actually listening to the music. Heck, the temptation was there with the Polaris, as it's got eleventy-billion jumper settings to play with.


 
  
  
 yea that is true, the Higher End G1217 Tubes auto set bias lol honestly that's a major relief though I'm kinda in the same boat. I like... rather crazily adjust my settings on the G1217 for like 2 hours after I got it xD


----------



## rovopio

Anybody owns both Magni 2 and Vali 2? How does it compared?


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Does anyone know if the Electro-Harmonix 12BH7 tube will work with the Vali? I've heard it's a very solid tube and it's inexpensive as well.


----------



## rgmffn

merrick said:


> Does anyone know if the Electro-Harmonix 12BH7 tube will work with the Vali? I've heard it's a very solid tube and it's inexpensive as well.


 
 It will not work.  That is a 12v tube.  The Vali runs on 6v only.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Got it, thanks!
  
 I'm totally new to tube rolling, so a lot of this is like Greek to me. I guess the 12 in the name should have been a hint for me there.


----------



## volly

Was mentioned earlier in the thread, I asked the same question.

Go on the schiit website for the vali2 and it will you a list of which tubes are compatible. 

Good luck.


----------



## RickB

This is an amazing amp. I like it better than my Asgard 2. The smaller footprint is nice, too.
  
 They might think about doing something to improve the Asgard, as they now have a more inexpensive amp that sounds better, IMO.


----------



## a44100Hz

rovopio said:


> Anybody owns both Magni 2 and Vali 2? How does it compared?




I will compare these for you tonight.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

My Vali 2 is out for delivery today!
  
 How long are you guys letting this burn in before giving it a listen?


----------



## a44100Hz

merrick said:


> My Vali 2 is out for delivery today!
> 
> How long are you guys letting this burn in before giving it a listen?




Only needs a few minutes to warm up IME. Sounded good right out of the box with stock tube.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Awesome! I will post some impressions later today then.


----------



## jfoxvol

merrick said:


> My Vali 2 is out for delivery today!
> 
> How long are you guys letting this burn in before giving it a listen?


 
 Any new tube needs a good 100 hours of voltage swing to get fully happy.  As far as for each use, a few minutes of warm up.  Right out of the box, the stock tube was great.  The most changes will come in the first 6-8 hours but will vary by tube (different structures and heater voltages and so forth).


----------



## bigro

jfoxvol said:


> Any new tube needs a good 100 hours of voltage swing to get fully happy.  As far as for each use, a few minutes of warm up.  Right out of the box, the stock tube was great.  The most changes will come in the first 6-8 hours but will vary by tube (different structures and heater voltages and so forth).


 
 Agreed, It's great out of the box but it gets better when you have clocked a few hours on it.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Ordered my Vali 2 today around 5am, they had it shipped by the afternoon. Very excited for my first tube amp. Also ordered an electro harmonix 6cg7 with balanced triodes and low noise/microphonics from tubedepot. Both should be here early next week!


----------



## varzyl

A couple questions:
  
 Is there anyone that could do a comparison\mini review to a Lake People G103-S (or similarly sounding Violectric amps)?
  
 How do you think Vali 2 pairs better to as DACs: R2R NOS, or Sigma Deltas?


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Well, USPS didn't leave the package, so now I have to go pick it up from the post office tomorrow. The funny thing is I live 30 minutes from Schiit, I could have gone and picked it up myself if they'd let me. Would have saved me the cost of shipping too.


----------



## Keevs

Has anyone tried the Vali 2 with the Shure 846 IEM? Is it a good match? I'm thinking of it in my work setup.


----------



## poocaso

letmebefrank said:


> Ordered my Vali 2 today around 5am, they had it shipped by the afternoon. Very excited for my first tube amp. Also ordered an electro harmonix 6cg7 with balanced triodes and low noise/microphonics from tubedepot. Both should be here early next week!


 

 I've had the Vali 2 for about a week and have been really enjoying it with the stock tube. Today I received my Electro Harmonix 6CG7 with the same configuration as yours, also from TubeDepot. Initial impressions are very positive! I think you will be very happy next week with your new setup!


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Sounds like I might need to grab me one of those Electro Harmonix tubes before y'all snatch them up!


----------



## a44100Hz

I highly recommend getting a NOS Amperex Bugle Boy for the Vali 2. I have two, both from Holland; both sound good but one of them is blowing my mind with the TH-X00. They're a beautiful match.


----------



## a44100Hz

rovopio said:


> Anybody owns both Magni 2 and Vali 2? How does it compared?


 

 Both sound good. With the stock tube, the Vali 2 sounds similar to the Magni 2 but maybe a touch more musical. After using some NOS tubes I heard more differences, more of that warm filled-in tubey sound, slower decay, more echoes, more soundstage. More fun to listen to overall, feels more immersive.

 One way I can try to explain it is that with the Magni 2 the sound feels like it's clipped a little in both the left and right directions, or like it's smaller. With tubes that goes away and the sound feels more wide and full. I think this is a commonly noted difference between solid state and tubes? And it's the kind of thing your ears would have to adapt to, I think. It's not night and day, but when you're listening for it, it's pretty apparent and the tube sound is more fulfilling for me it seems.


----------



## Capt369

Does anyone know how the valid 2 compares with the Valhalla 2? I'd rather just roll one tube as opposed to four.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Alright, the Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 is ordered from Tube Depot! Balanced and low microphonics.


----------



## rgmffn

merrick said:


> Alright, the Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 is ordered from Tube Depot! Balanced and low microphonics.


 

 I hope you'll let us know how you like it.  My 6CG7 is to arrive tomorrow.  I'll be comparing it to my Electro-Harmonix 6629 EH. That sounds Great!


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Will do! I'll pick my amp up from the post office in the morning and try it out tomorrow with the stock amp to get a feel for it, then I'll swap it for the second tube some time after it arrives so I can compare them.


----------



## Capt369

For those interested, I started a vali 2 tube rolling thread for individual tube impressions with this amp.


----------



## rovopio

a44100hz said:


> Both sound good. With the stock tube, the Vali 2 sounds similar to the Magni 2 but maybe a touch more musical. After using some NOS tubes I heard more differences, more of that warm filled-in tubey sound, slower decay, more echoes, more soundstage. More fun to listen to overall, feels more immersive.
> 
> One way I can try to explain it is that with the Magni 2 the sound feels like it's clipped a little in both the left and right directions, or like it's smaller. With tubes that goes away and the sound feels more wide and full. I think this is a commonly noted difference between solid state and tubes? And it's the kind of thing your ears would have to adapt to, I think. It's not night and day, but when you're listening for it, it's pretty apparent and the tube sound is more fulfilling for me it seems.


 
  
 Thank you very much! That helps makes my decision way easier!


----------



## Badfish5446

I'm not following the thread with hyper precision so this may have been mentioned... but with my Lyr Tube rolling I found the Matsush1ta tubes to be an outstanding value ($30-40 a tube) if someone is wanting a warmer NOS option.  Can't say exactly how they would sound with the Vali 2 but I love them with my Lyr and brighter cans.  These tubes are often listed as Mullard, Phillips or Amperex (Japan).  A niece alternative to paying the $100+ per tube for their Holland based counterparts.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

badfish5446 said:


> I'm not following the thread with hyper precision so this may have been mentioned... but with my Lyr Tube rolling I found the Matsush1ta tubes to be an outstanding value ($30-40 a tube) if someone is wanting a warmer NOS option.  Can't say exactly how they would sound with the Vali 2 but I love them with my Lyr and brighter cans.  These tubes are often listed as Mullard, Phillips or Amperex (Japan).  A niece alternative to paying the $100+ per tube for their Holland based counterparts.


 

 I noticed some of those on Tube Monger ($30/tube and $40/tube), and both were listed as "best buys".


----------



## nordkapp

Hey guys, I don't have time to read this entire thread so please excuse me. I own the original Vali. How does the model 2 compare? I am considering possibly grabbing one. Thanks.


----------



## varzyl

nordkapp said:


> Hey guys, I don't have time to read this entire thread so please excuse me. I own the original Vali. How does the model 2 compare? I am considering possibly grabbing one. Thanks.


 
  
 Here you go
 PS: it was a 30 second search, BTW
  
 Quote:


bboris77 said:


> I received mine today in Canada! I loved the original Vali so I was not sure how much improvement to expect. I was simply blown away! First of all, the hiss is completely gone on both the low and high gain modes. I have the AKG Q701, Fostex T50RPmk3 and Grado SR60e and even the Grados are completely hiss-free. On the original Vali, the SR60e had an audible hiss. However, what truly surprised me was how much more black the background was on the Q701 and T50RPmk3. I guess I had gotten used to a very mild hiss on the original Vali even on less sensitive headphones.
> 
> As for the sound itself, I do not speak the audiophile lingo yet, so please bear with me. Keep in mind that I am comparing it to the original Vali only since it's the only other proper amp that I own. I would describe the sound on Vali 2 as much more robust in a good way compared to Vali 1. The original Vali had a degree of lushness that was very enticing but it left its imprint on all the music that you would listen to. Vali 2 is more neutral (at least with the stock tubes), but still has a great full sounding tube sound. It definitely sounds more natural and fuller then the original Vali. It also sounds more stable and competent - maybe it has to do with the fact that it has less distortion.
> 
> ...


----------



## nordkapp

Thanks. Buying one. Pretty much what I had suspected.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Got mine today. Using the Geek Out V2 as my DAC, and comparing it against the built-in amps on the GOV2.

 It's not a night and day difference, but with my Grado 225e, the Vali 2 edges out the GOV2 a bit on detail, instrument separation, and clarity. It does this at a slight loss of the energy that makes Grados so fun, but the other positive trade-off is that songs that felt peaky with the GOV2 SE out play much more nicely out of the Vali 2. Overall, for the Grados I think it's a good match and gives me a more refined and cohesive sound than the GOV2.

 Comparing the Vali 2, which is single-ended only, to the GOV2 In balanced mode with my HE-400S is a lot closer, which isn't surprising. The GOV2 is great in balanced mode. The thing that's getting me with the Vali 2 though is that it's more euphonic than the GO. I'm feeling more connected to the music through the Vali 2. It's not something measurable, just my natural reaction to the two amps. It could be the difference between tube and SS. Whatever it is, to me, that euphonic quality says this is a keeper. It also makes me wonder if I should bother with a balanced amp when it's time to upgrade. I'd certainly have more options if I stayed single-ended. But that's a question for another time.

 I'm actually liking the stock tube more than I thought, considering I had heard some negative things. I did order an Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 from Tube Depot and am eyeing a Jan Philips NOS and Matsu****a NOS for down the road. I won't pull the trigger on those yet though, I don't want a huge collection of tubes sitting around.

 This amp is really making the HE-400S shine, by the way. These are such pleasant headphones to listen to. I've got side two of Abbey Road on now and I'm floating away on it. I listened to the new Bowie on Spotify last night, but now I've got some lossless files and I'm excited to hear that through the Vali 2 as well.

 Eventually I'll upgrade my DAC and amp and this will become my work rig. As it is, I think this is a very solid mid-fi setup and is a wonderful way to enjoy music.

 Last random thought, I think one of the biggest differences is that the Vali has a more pronounced bottom end than the GOV2. Not that it's overbearing the mids or highs in any way. I'm just feeling more bass than with the GO alone.


----------



## Currawong

varzyl said:


> How do you think Vali 2 pairs better to as DACs: R2R NOS, or Sigma Deltas?


 
  
 It pairs best with the best DAC that you can afford. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


capt369 said:


> Does anyone know how the valid 2 compares with the Valhalla 2? I'd rather just roll one tube as opposed to four.


 
  
 Primarily, it's way more versatile in what headphones it'll work well with. I think you answered your own question though.
  


badfish5446 said:


> I'm not following the thread with hyper precision so this may have been mentioned... but with my Lyr Tube rolling I found the Matsush1ta tubes to be an outstanding value ($30-40 a tube) if someone is wanting a warmer NOS option.  Can't say exactly how they would sound with the Vali 2 but I love them with my Lyr and brighter cans.  These tubes are often listed as Mullard, Phillips or Amperex (Japan).  A niece alternative to paying the $100+ per tube for their Holland based counterparts.


 
  
 Agreed. The ?????????? tube I have is pretty close to the Amperex PQ, but a heck of a lot cheaper. That EH tube seems to be the go though going by impressions. EH can be luck of the draw but at least when they make a good tube, it's not expensive.


----------



## bigro

capt369 said:


> Does anyone know how the valid 2 compares with the Valhalla 2? I'd rather just roll one tube as opposed to four.


 

 I have both, The Valhalla 2 has a wider wider sound stage which is pretty noticeable when using speakers. And I find the valhalla 2 it to have better detail and layering. I don't want to comment on the mid's and highs etc because tubes can change that. The Vali 2 was not meant as a Valhalla replacement and it is not. But it sure as hell gets close. The Vali 2 is no slouch. I really enjoy the Vali 2. I mean a lot. I lent it to rmoody who has an Asgard 2 in his main setup with some shiny new Ether C's and he did not want to give the Vali 2 back. I think that speaks volumes.
  
 The one tube thing, be careful. its like a gateway drug. Its only one tube to roll now.  the next thing you know you have 8 different ones on your list to try.


----------



## rovopio

bigro said:


> I have both, The Valhalla 2 has a wider wider sound stage which is pretty noticeable when using speakers. And I find the valhalla 2 it to have better detail and layering. I don't want to comment on the mid's and highs etc because tubes can change that. The Vali 2 was not meant as a Valhalla replacement and it is not. But it sure as hell gets close. The Vali 2 is no slouch. I really enjoy the Vali 2. I mean a lot. I lent it to rmoody who has an Asgard 2 in his main setup with some shiny new Ether C's and he did not want to give the Vali 2 back. I think that speaks volumes.
> 
> The one tube thing, be careful. its like a gateway drug. Its only one tube to roll now.  the next thing you know you have 8 different ones on your list to try.


 
  
 Does the Vali 2 can be turned on 24 hours (hypothetically) like a Magni 2?
 I'm asking this just because a Little Dot I+ has an instruction in it's manual to not turn it on for more than 6 hours. I'm wondering if Vali has similar restrictions....


----------



## Currawong

I don't see a problem. You will wear out the tube faster, but that's about it. I don't think it needs long to warm up, as there isn't much in the way of electronics that has to get warm.


----------



## Capt369

bigro said:


> I have both, The Valhalla 2 has a wider wider sound stage which is pretty noticeable when using speakers. And I find the valhalla 2 it to have better detail and layering. I don't want to comment on the mid's and highs etc because tubes can change that. The Vali 2 was not meant as a Valhalla replacement and it is not. But it sure as hell gets close. The Vali 2 is no slouch. I really enjoy the Vali 2. I mean a lot. I lent it to rmoody who has an Asgard 2 in his main setup with some shiny new Ether C's and he did not want to give the Vali 2 back. I think that speaks volumes.
> 
> The one tube thing, be careful. its like a gateway drug. Its only one tube to roll now.  the next thing you know you have 8 different ones on your list to try.


 

 Thanks for the input. Oh, I know about tubes, I used to have a Cary SLI-80 in my big rig when I had it. Wonderful amp. (had 10 tubes).lol


----------



## rgmffn

rovopio said:


> Does the Vali 2 can be turned on 24 hours (hypothetically) like a Magni 2?
> I'm asking this just because a Little Dot I+ has an instruction in it's manual to not turn it on for more than 6 hours. I'm wondering if Vali has similar restrictions....


 
 I would turn it on when you are going to listen to it, and leave it on if you plan on listening later in the day/night, and turn it off before going to bed.


----------



## sarora

Hey all,

I left a long and hopefully comprehensive video review after a month owning this amplifier, it's 40 minutes long and the Vali 2 content starts about 15 minutes in. I talk a bit about another tube amp and compare the two, then review and teardown everything as well as some general commentary. Really loving this amplifier. 

I didn't go into any hard technicalities like oscilloscope data, but I can in the future if there's interest.

If anyone wants to check out the video, I encourage you to do so  

Any feedback is appreciated as well - 

[VIDEO]https://youtube.com/watch?v=MiHqH_2XGwc[/VIDEO]


----------



## bigro

currawong said:


> I don't see a problem. You will wear out the tube faster, but that's about it. I don't think it needs long to warm up, as there isn't much in the way of electronics that has to get warm.


 

 Yep. I turn My Vali 2 ad valhalla on and let it warm up for 5 - 10 minutes before I use it. I run My vali for 8- 10 hours a day a work then turn it off when I go home.


capt369 said:


> Thanks for the input. Oh, I know about tubes, I used to have a Cary SLI-80 in my big rig when I had it. Wonderful amp. (had 10 tubes).lol


 
 My wallet got lucky, I stopped on the 3rd set.


----------



## RickB

If you want an album to demo the Vali 2 to somebody (or just for yourself), I recommend *Mazzy Star's* _So Tonight That I Might See_.


----------



## lenroot77

Just ordered the Vali 2 last night... Very excited to check out my q701's and 400i's on it as its my first tube amp!

Great thread here folk!


----------



## Jane Levi

bigro said:


> ... I lent it to rmoody who has an Asgard 2 in his main setup with some shiny new Ether C's and he did not want to give the Vali 2 back...


 
 =)) Its time for new Asgard 3 !


----------



## varzyl

Can anyone compare the Vali 2 to a Little Dot 1+?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## bigro

jane levi said:


> =)) Its time for new Asgard 3 !


 

 HA, There is nothing wrong with the A2 I actually like it a lot and I know he does too. I was really just stating that even with some premium headphones the vali 2 can hold its own against larger more powerful solid state amps.


----------



## Letmebefrank

My Vali 2 came in the mail today! Super fast shipping from Schiit! I've been listening for about an hour now, and WOW this thing sounds insanely good. The stock tube is still in it right now, going to give that a day or two then try the Electro Harmonix 6cg7.
  
 Listening with my hd 598s this thing sounds insane for every music genre I've thrown at it, from death metal to classic prog to electronic to pop.


----------



## OldRoadToad

Hmmm... I just want to hear music, not equipment.   If the Vali 2 does this while allowing me to satisfyingly listen to the music of the past with high hopes for songs yet to come, then it's worthy of not just my money, but my time.
  
 The Toad


----------



## Tuneslover

oldroadtoad said:


> Hmmm... I just want to hear music, not equipment.   If the Vali 2 does this while allowing me to satisfyingly listen to the music of the past with high hopes for songs yet to come, then it's worthy of not just my money, but my time.
> 
> The Toad




If your ears are anything like mine then I think you will enjoy many years of music listening pleasure with this awesome little amp.


----------



## rovopio

bigro said:


> Yep. I turn My Vali 2 ad valhalla on and let it warm up for 5 - 10 minutes before I use it. I run My vali for 8- 10 hours a day a work then turn it off when I go home.


 
  
 Yeah I was imagining something like this. Though in my case, it's probably closer to 12 hours, living in Asia and everything. Can Vali 2 take the LISST tube?
 Read Schiit website, and on LISST product page, vali 2 is not listed, so I take it Vali 2 can't take LISST?


----------



## Billheiser

sarora said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I left a long and hopefully comprehensive video review after a month owning this amplifier, it's 40 minutes long and the Vali 2 content starts about 15 minutes in. I talk a bit about another tube amp and compare the two, then review and teardown everything as well as some general commentary. Really loving this amplifier.
> 
> ...


 
 A 43 minute video, you're kidding me, right?
  
 TL; DR:  No thanks.


----------



## volly

sarora said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I left a long and hopefully comprehensive video review after a month owning this amplifier, it's 40 minutes long and the Vali 2 content starts about 15 minutes in. I talk a bit about another tube amp and compare the two, then review and teardown everything as well as some general commentary. Really loving this amplifier.
> 
> ...




Cheers for the video mate, very informative with a great break down. Keep up the good work.


----------



## MrPanda

sarora said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I left a long and hopefully comprehensive video review after a month owning this amplifier, it's 40 minutes long and the Vali 2 content starts about 15 minutes in. I talk a bit about another tube amp and compare the two, then review and teardown everything as well as some general commentary. Really loving this amplifier.
> 
> ...


 

 Great video, really adds to the understanding and appreciation of the amp!  Thank you for posting!


----------



## Capt369

volly said:


> Cheers for the video mate, very informative with a great break down. Keep up the good work.


 

 Agreed, informative and very well done.Thanks sarora.


----------



## moshen

Very well done review. Looking forward to more technical reviews from you.
  
 Quote:


sarora said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I left a long and hopefully comprehensive video review after a month owning this amplifier, it's 40 minutes long and the Vali 2 content starts about 15 minutes in. I talk a bit about another tube amp and compare the two, then review and teardown everything as well as some general commentary. Really loving this amplifier.
> 
> ...


----------



## lvince95

Quote:


billheiser said:


> A 43 minute video, you're kidding me, right?
> 
> TL; DR:  No thanks.


 
 Well, apparently you don't like knowledge. Good to know.
  
  
 Quote:


sarora said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I left a long and hopefully comprehensive video review after a month owning this amplifier, it's 40 minutes long and the Vali 2 content starts about 15 minutes in. I talk a bit about another tube amp and compare the two, then review and teardown everything as well as some general commentary. Really loving this amplifier.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the in-depth and informative video, learned a lot from it. Appreciate the effort!


----------



## Tuneslover

Nicely done!
  
 I would be interested in seeing you do a similar review of the Project Ember II (on their thread of course).
  
  


sarora said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I left a long and hopefully comprehensive video review after a month owning this amplifier, it's 40 minutes long and the Vali 2 content starts about 15 minutes in. I talk a bit about another tube amp and compare the two, then review and teardown everything as well as some general commentary. Really loving this amplifier.
> 
> ...


----------



## Defiant00

rovopio said:


> Yeah I was imagining something like this. Though in my case, it's probably closer to 12 hours, living in Asia and everything. Can Vali 2 take the LISST tube?
> Read Schiit website, and on LISST product page, vali 2 is not listed, so I take it Vali 2 can't take LISST?




Yes, LISST works with the Vali 2 according to the Vali 2 FAQ, although if you don't plan to use actual tubes they just recommend getting the Magni instead.


----------



## Deftone

Anyone tried it with a Siemens E288CC?


----------



## nwavesailor

Has anyone tried the Vali 2, fed by a modest 7th gen iPod Nano (w/o an outboard DAC) using a HE400S?
  
 I have lots of 6DJ8, 6922, 7308 to roll and the price of entry is temping!


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

I didn't use an iPod, I used a Pono in line out mode, but I can tell you that the HE-400S is a truly terrific match with the Vali 2. Addictive is the word I'd use for the combination.


----------



## Letmebefrank

The vali 2 sounds so good it makes you want to skip work and listen all day.


----------



## Makiah S

currawong said:


> *It pairs best with the best DAC that you can afford.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeaper, that sounds about right
  
 I've spent a couple of weeks with the Vali 2 an the Starlight. I'm going to buy the Starlight as I wasn't hugely impressed with the Vali 2, though given the price differance between the two an the increased power output on the Vali  2 I'd say it's the 'better" value for your first tube amp! 
  
  still though, I had a chance to source it from my Bernhinger UAC 202 [$30 dac] an I enjoyed it there as much as I did with my NFB2ES10s output


----------



## nwavesailor

merrick said:


> I didn't use an iPod, I used a Pono in line out mode, but I can tell you that the HE-400S is a truly terrific match with the Vali 2. Addictive is the word I'd use for the combination.


 

 Thanks, Merrick!
  
 I have been following your posts and impressions on the HE400S and it was you that got me heading down (or at least peeking into) this Vali 2 rabbit hole..........
  
 At $169 and lots of tube rolling options, I may have to give the Vali 2 a try with the HE400S!
 I may start w/o a standalone DAC and see how it compares to using just the iPod alone and then the iPod + Vali 2.
  
 The Garage 1217 offerings look interesting as well, but I know me, and I'd be constantly doing upgrades, opamp swaps, and tube rolling like crazy!


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks, Merrick!
> 
> I have been following your posts and impressions on the HE400S and it was you that got me heading down (or at least peeking into) this Vali 2 rabbit hole..........
> 
> ...




My pleasure, happy to help! I will say that despite having balanced cables for my 400S, I prefer listening to them through the Vali vs balanced on the GOV2 by my itself or balanced through my Pono. It really benefits from the additional amplification. Without the Vali 2, I prefer my Grado 225e. With the Vali 2, the qualities of the 400S really shine. IMO of course.


----------



## disastermouse

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks, Merrick!
> 
> I have been following your posts and impressions on the HE400S and it was you that got me heading down (or at least peeking into) this Vali 2 rabbit hole..........
> 
> ...



Yeah, tube amps intimidate me a bit. I opted for a Garage 1217 Project Polaris for that very reason. I wanted to jump up and wasn't sure if Vali 2 would be a significant enough upgrade from my original Magni and I couldn't quite afford (at the time) the jump to Lyr 2 (plus, it's a tube hybrid) or Mjolnir.

That said, I JUST ordered a Bifrost Multibit to replace my HRT MusicStreamer II+.


----------



## SpecChum

Just wondering if this would be an upgrade or a side grade from my Little Dot MkII (stock tubes)?


----------



## nwavesailor

nwavesailor said:


> At $169 and lots of tube rolling options, I may have to give the Vali 2 a try with the HE400S!
> 
> I may start w/o a standalone DAC and see how it compares to using just the iPod alone and then the iPod + Vali 2


 
_DOAH!!!!!!!!_
  
_I wasn't thinking about not having a digital out on the iPod Nano to use a standalone DAC............... so I'll be using the Vali 2 amp alone!_
  
_I put my order in today and will look at all my existing stock of 6DJ8, 6922, 7308 tubes and test the 2 sections to be sure they are close._


----------



## Letmebefrank

My updated Schiit stack, now with extra stackyness.


----------



## Supa Mint

letmebefrank said:


> My updated Schiit stack, now with extra stackyness.


 
  
 Nice!  Is that a SYS?  If so, what do you use that for?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Tuneslover

I have been experimenting with my Vali2 and various headphones for a week now. A few days ago I connected my FiiO X5ii's line out to the Vali. The HD650'S sounded very nice indeed. Today I moved the X5ii/Vali2/HD650 to my main system. This time coaxial out from X5ii into Bifrost 4490. Holy cow! Massive improvement.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

nwavesailor said:


> _DOAH!!!!!!!!_
> 
> _I wasn't thinking about not having a digital out on the iPod Nano to use a standalone DAC............... so I'll be using the Vali 2 amp alone!_
> 
> _I put my order in today and will look at all my existing stock of 6DJ8, 6922, 7308 tubes and test the 2 sections to be sure they are close._




Clearly it's time to order a Modi2Uber...


----------



## gibby

My Vali 2 arrived today. Unfortunatly, there's a short or something and with the volume knob all the way down it is full blast. I can torque the knob a bit to get it to work, but touching the knob to turn up or down it goes full volume. Bad knob or solder job. Obviously this was not tested at all.


----------



## nwavesailor

gibby said:


> My Vali 2 arrived today. Unfortunatly, there's a short or something and with the volume knob all the way down it is full blast. I can torque the knob a bit to get it to work, but touching the knob to turn up or down it goes full volume. Bad knob or solder job. Obviously this was not tested at all.


 
  


merrick said:


> Clearly it's time to order a Modi2Uber...


 

 After reading a bit and emailing Schiit, I don't think I can put a DAC in the chain using the iPod Nano. I can add a DAC to my main system, but the Vali 2 is for the 400S / iPod!


----------



## sheldaze

nwavesailor said:


> After reading a bit and emailing Schiit, I don't think I can put a DAC in the chain using the iPod Nano. I can add a DAC to my main system, but the Vali 2 is for the 400S / iPod!


 
 I have the 4th generation iPod Nano - I use Pure i-20 to send Toslink and COAX output from my iPod into my Gungnir DAC.
 Sorry, I missed your first posts. What generation - or better, you can check with Pure to see if something like it will work. I believe it was Schiit who sent me to the Pure website.


----------



## rgmffn

gibby said:


> My Vali 2 arrived today. Unfortunatly, there's a short or something and with the volume knob all the way down it is full blast. I can torque the knob a bit to get it to work, but touching the knob to turn up or down it goes full volume. Bad knob or solder job. Obviously this was not tested at all.


 
  
 That is unfortunate indeed.  Sorry to hear that.  I know they are tested before shipment, probably more than once.  They'll make it right, it'll just cost you some time.


----------



## Letmebefrank

supa mint said:


> Nice!  Is that a SYS?  If so, what do you use that for?
> 
> Thanks.




It is a SYS and it rocks! I use it in reverse as a switch between my headphone amps and my desktop speakers. I use audioquest hard splitters from one output to 2 headphone amps (magni 2 and vali 2) then the other output to my smsl sa-50 speaker amp.


----------



## i20bot

letmebefrank said:


> My updated Schiit stack, now with extra stackyness.


 
  
 Should get a Wyrd too so you'll be five high.


----------



## Letmebefrank

i20bot said:


> Should get a Wyrd too so you'll be five high.



That would be funny. I don't use USB for the modi, and my motherboard doesn't have noisy outputs anyway. I use toslink.


----------



## nwavesailor

sheldaze said:


> I have the 4th generation iPod Nano - I use Pure i-20 to send Toslink and COAX output from my iPod into my Gungnir DAC.
> Sorry, I missed your first posts. What generation - or better, you can check with Pure to see if something like it will work. I believe it was Schiit who sent me to the Pure website.


 

 Yep, I have read that you can do that with the earlier gen iPods. I have the 7th gen Nano and the Lightning connector. I don't think I can get a digital out from the Lightning / USB connector where you could from the old 20 pin connector. If there is an option for a standalone DAC, I haven't figured it out or found a reasonable work around.


----------



## rgmffn

letmebefrank said:


> My updated Schiit stack, now with extra stackyness.


 
  
 I don't have a Stack a... I've got a Line a Schiit!


----------



## dmallen

Vali 2 and Bifrost DAC... stock tube. Running HE-400s and HD-650's headphones. Rolled a JJ gold pin and first impressions is sounds a bit muddy, but like to give this tube some allot more time to comment. Put back the stock... and like i thought the Schiit peeps would not give us sublime.
  
 Put my IEMs through the mix, Westone 4R, Shure 535 SE on low gain... ****... wow...


----------



## jfoxvol

dmallen said:


> Vali 2 and Bifrost DAC... stock tube. Running HE-400s and HD-650's headphones. Rolled a JJ gold pin and first impressions is sounds a bit muddy, but like to give this tube some allot more time to comment. Put back the stock... and like i thought the Schiit peeps would not give us sublime.
> 
> Put my IEMs through the mix, Westone 4R, Shure 535 SE on low gain... ****... wow...


 
 JJs can be a lot "warmer".  I loved the stock tube.  I just got an Electro Harmonix 6CG7 burned in for the last several days and I absolutely love it.  It sounds more natural than the stock tube.  Microdynamics seem way way better.  I guess longer plates are better after all.  I have a NOS Jan Philips 6922 burning in now.  It is somehow even quieter but with more forward mids (still not burned in all the way).


----------



## Tuneslover

I am using HD650's with my Vali2. My source is an X5ii (line out). The X5ii DAC doesn't sound too bad but I'm thinking about getting a dedicated DAC for the Vali2. My initial thought was a Modi2U. But then perhaps a Bifrost? Or would that be over kill?


----------



## Letmebefrank

I use the modi 2 Uber with my vali 2. In my opinion it sounds incredible, however I have never heard anything more expensive than the modi 2U.


----------



## jfoxvol

tuneslover said:


> I am using HD650's with my Vali2. My source is an X5ii (line out). The X5ii DAC doesn't sound too bad but I'm thinking about getting a dedicated DAC for the Vali2. My initial thought was a Modi2U. But then perhaps a Bifrost? Or would that be over kill?


 
 I, along with many others, use a Bifrost multibit with my Vali 2.  It sounds fantastic.  It's not overkill at all.  I use the DAC with a few other amps and it just makes things sound incredibly natural.  The digital filter and nature of the implementation give much better time domain accuracy so position information, soundstage and the overall timbre of vocals and instruments sounds more real.
  
 Edit - That being said, the modi2u is a fantastic value and performs quite well.  If you have the coin though, think about upgrading to Bifrost MB.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

tuneslover said:


> I am using HD650's with my Vali2. My source is an X5ii (line out). The X5ii DAC doesn't sound too bad but I'm thinking about getting a dedicated DAC for the Vali2. My initial thought was a Modi2U. But then perhaps a Bifrost? Or would that be over kill?


 

 It's absolutely not overkill. The 650 will scale well beyond even the Bimby.


----------



## tdonnellyem

It is a SYS and it rocks! I use it in reverse as a bswitch between my headphone amps and my desktop speakers. I use audioquest hard splitters from one output to 2 headphone amps (magni 2 and vali 2) then the other output to my smsl sa-50 speaker amp.


I thought the SYS only had one output. How do you use it in reverse?


----------



## Letmebefrank

tdonnellyem said:


> It is a SYS and it rocks! I use it in reverse as a bswitch between my headphone amps and my desktop speakers. I use audioquest hard splitters from one output to 2 headphone amps (magni 2 and vali 2) then the other output to my smsl sa-50 speaker amp.
> 
> 
> I thought the SYS only had one output. How do you use it in reverse?




Its passive, so you can use the output as an input and then the inputs as outs and it works just fine as long as the SYS volume knob is at max.


----------



## bigro

+1 - I used a SYS like this for a while


----------



## tdonnellyem

letmebefrank said:


> Its passive, so you can use the output as an input and then the inputs as outs and it works just fine as long as the SYS volume knob is at max.


 

 thanks for tine info/knowledge.  guess  i will be ordering one friday!  i have too many amps (home system/bottlehead crack/asgard 2) and only one dac (bifrost mb).  using an old niles tape deck switching device.  has no volumes just switches, but i get a lot of bleed through from it.  if my home system is on i can hear sound from them even though i am switched to one of the headphone amps.  i was using Y cables and remembered i had the switch box and decided to give it a try.  from what i have read the SYS is quiet so hoping there is no bleed through to the next output.
  
 i use my vali 2 with a modi...sounds great with the stock tube.  i thought i saw on the thread a list of the stock tubes schiit is sending with the vali 2.  mine is a packard bell.  plan on rolling down the road but am very pleased with the sound of the stock tube
  
 tim


----------



## painted klown

jfoxvol said:


> I, along with many others, use a Bifrost multibit with my Vali 2.  It sounds fantastic.  It's not overkill at all.  I use the DAC with a few other amps and it just makes things sound incredibly natural.  The digital filter and nature of the implementation give much better time domain accuracy so position information, soundstage and the overall timbre of vocals and instruments sounds more real.
> 
> Edit - That being said, the modi2u is a fantastic value and performs quite well.  If you have the coin though, think about upgrading to Bifrost MB.


 
 Do you feel the Vali 2 has enough resolution to keep up with the Bifrost multibit? In other words, do you feel the Vali 2 loses or masks any of the resolution that (everyone seems to think) the Bimby is capable of? 
  
 Most of my listening is done with Senn HD-650's.
  
 I hope that question makes sense.


----------



## jfoxvol

painted klown said:


> Do you feel the Vali 2 has enough resolution to keep up with the Bifrost multibit? In other words, do you feel the Vali 2 loses or masks any of the resolution that (everyone seems to think) the Bimby is capable of?
> 
> Most of my listening is done with Senn HD-650's.
> 
> I hope that question makes sense.




Without a doubt. I've not run my 650s into the setup yet. I've been running with my Ether Cs mostly. It has ample clarity (maybe not with JJ tube). It's a great overall pairing. I'll give the 650s a go and get back to you.


----------



## jimdandy

I already have the Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber. But,I'm going to upgrade to the Bifrost Multibit for my computer and use the Modi 2 for my DVR to my speakers. I'll get the Vali 2 to go along with the Magni 2 Uber so I can have the best of both worlds. The Wyrd will be in the new stack too. Can't wait for Income Tax refund to arrive. Sad I have it already spent and it is a month away. LOL. The guys at Schiit Audio are going to love me this year I think. LOL. I have to say awesome products. Can't say enough about them. 2years on my Modi and Magni and no problems at all. They still sing like the day I bought them. I would not have anything else plugged into my computer. I hope the Vali 2 sounds good with my HE-400i I just got. Schiit is awesome.


----------



## HOWIE13

painted klown said:


> Do you feel the Vali 2 has enough resolution to keep up with the Bifrost multibit? In other words, do you feel the Vali 2 loses or masks any of the resolution that (everyone seems to think) the Bimby is capable of?
> 
> Most of my listening is done with Senn HD-650's.
> 
> I hope that question makes sense.


 
 I don't personally find the HD650's particularly highly resolving headphones, good though they are in many other respects. They may be the limiting factor for clarity rather than the sources you are considering.


----------



## joeexp

howie13 said:


> I don't personally find the HD650's particularly highly resolving headphones, good though they are in many other respects. They may be the limiting factor for clarity rather than the sources you are considering.


 
  
 The HD650s scale very well and are resolving enough for most of the gear out there and definitely resolving enough for the Vali 2.


----------



## HOWIE13

joeexp said:


> The HD650s scale very well and are resolving enough for most of the gear out there and definitely resolving enough for the Vali 2.


 
 I don't have the Vali 2 yet, but one is on it's way. It will be interesting to hear how resolving it sounds with the Vali compared to my other cans because I've never associated the HD 650 with great clarity, more with warmth and euphony.


----------



## painted klown

jfoxvol said:


> Without a doubt. I've not run my 650s into the setup yet. I've been running with my Ether Cs mostly. It has ample clarity (maybe not with JJ tube). It's a great overall pairing. I'll give the 650s a go and get back to you.


 
 Good to hear. I figured it was up to the task (so-to-speak) but wanted to hear from an actual user. Thanks for the info.
  
   


joeexp said:


> The HD650s scale very well and are resolving enough for most of the gear out there and definitely resolving enough for the Vali 2.


 

 Thanks for the info.
  
 I have read that the 650's scale very well, but have only heard them with 1 DAC/AMP combo and that same DAC (Emotiva DC-1) into the Vali 2 (unless you count portable sources).
  
 Really though, I was curious about the Vali 2 being able to pass the resolution of the Bimby on to my 650's. *jfoxvol *has answered my question however. I am considering maybe getting a Bimby in the future, until I can afford a Yggy. Still debating it though, to be honest. I feel like if I got both, then I am just taking $600 away from my Yggy savings, and will have an extra DAC I don't need, when all id said & done. Obviously, I waffle back and forth in my thinking from minute to minute! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










  
 I am just SUPER curious to hear what all the multibit hype is all about!


----------



## Makiah S

So I've been RAVING about how GREAT my new Starlight is, an I've not really spent any time with my Vali 2 Demo as I was NOT impressed with it on my Dynamic headphones... AT ALL
  
 How ever... it's really nice with my HE 4  which is saying a LOT given hard power hungry the HE 4 is, 
  
 I think I was going at the Vali 2 from the wrong angle testing it on my Low Impedance Dynamics, [yea the HE 4 is low "impedance" but the sensitivity is low to] 
  
 So... yea  
  
  
 WOOOOOO guess WHAT
  
 the Stock tube in the Vali 2 is TERRIBLE, I swapped my Reflektor 6N23P an... well the Vali 2 suddnely sounded better


----------



## SpecChum

I can see this seems to pair well with the HD650 at their 300ohms but has anyone tried with the soundmagic HP200 at all? Their impedance is much less at 20ohms.

The output impedance of the amp itself seems low enough?


----------



## joeexp

specchum said:


> I can see this seems to pair well with the HD650 at their 300ohms but has anyone tried with the soundmagic HP200 at all? Their impedance is much less at 20ohms.
> 
> The output impedance of the amp itself seems low enough?


 
  
 Output Impedance: 1.2 ohms in low gain mode, 5.8 ohms in high gain mode
 Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 1300mW RMS per channel
  
 Plenty of Power!


----------



## SpecChum

Cool, plenty of current on tap then.

Think I may have found my new amp


----------



## sarora

specchum said:


> I can see this seems to pair well with the HD650 at their 300ohms but has anyone tried with the soundmagic HP200 at all? Their impedance is much less at 20ohms.
> 
> The output impedance of the amp itself seems low enough?




You will be fine, I use these with TH900's with 25 Ohm. Just use low power and you have plenty of power as stated above, and it's not too noisy at all - only at the highest setting is it a bit noisy but you'll kill your ears anyways and never need that high volume.


----------



## Makiah S

sarora said:


> You will be fine, I use these with TH900's with 25 Ohm. Just use low power and you have plenty of power as stated above, and it's not too noisy at all - only at the highest setting is it a bit noisy but you'll kill your ears anyways and never need that high volume.


 
 I know for me, with a lot of my older Jazz an some of my classical [which is rather quiet] the vali 2 got a little to noisy for my tastes with my Dynamic Headphones, granted swapping the stock tube OUT helped to remove a lot of noise
  
 speaking of, what was the tube Moffat recommended


----------



## jfoxvol

mshenay said:


> I know for me, with a lot of my older Jazz an some of my classical [which is rather quiet] the vali 2 got a little to noisy for my tastes with my Dynamic Headphones, granted swapping the stock tube OUT helped to remove a lot of noise
> 
> speaking of, what was the tube Moffat recommended


 
 6CG7.  I've had in mine for two weeks and marked improvement


----------



## Makiah S

jfoxvol said:


> 6CG7.  I've had in mine for two weeks and marked improvement


 
 What brand, I see an RCA Clear Top of that family, for around $50ish 
  
 I'd like to know why though Mike didn't voice the amp using a tube he liked :/ I get that they wanted a low price amp, but that stock tube is terrible.


----------



## nordkapp

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts of the Genalex Gold Lion 6922. I currently use the EH 6922. Not sure if it's worth putting $50 of glass into an $160 amp.


----------



## jfoxvol

mshenay said:


> What brand, I see an RCA Clear Top of that family, for around $50ish
> 
> I'd like to know why though Mike didn't voice the amp using a tube he liked :/ I get that they wanted a low price amp, but that stock tube is terrible.




Electroharmonix makes a repro. It is on tube depot for about 20 if you add matched triode and low noise options. I think you've made your point about your distaste for the stock tube. Personally, I think it's great.


----------



## Makiah S

jfoxvol said:


> Electroharmonix makes a repro. It is on tube depot for about 20 if you add matched triode and low noise options. I think you've made your point about your distaste for the stock tube. Personally, I think it's great.


 
 maybe that's it, I just might not like the sound of it
  
 either way, I wasn't a huge fan of this amp. I'll post my comparison video here an take my leave ^^ here's to hoping if they do a Vali 3, it's a hit for me like the Vali 1 was


----------



## SneakyDomo

Hello all I'm new to the forum and jut got the Vali 2 yesterday.  Its my first experience with a tube amp and I'm enjoying the different sound from the Fiio E-10k that I am used to with my 400i's.  That said I think the tube choice is pretty bad, I'd rather have a really mediocre new production tube than what I received.  Already intermittent popping in one channel.  I have ordered an Electro Harmonix 6922 and JJ E88CC and they should arrive next week and I'm excited to see how they sound.  Can someone tell me if the white residue at the top of my tube is evidence that the tube vacuum has been compromised or is that normal?


----------



## Makiah S

sneakydomo said:


> Hello all I'm new to the forum and jut got the Vali 2 yesterday.  Its my first experience with a tube amp and I'm enjoying the different sound from the Fiio E-10k that I am used to with my 400i's.  *That said I think the tube choice is pretty bad, I'd rather have a really mediocre new production tube than what I received.*  Already intermittent popping in one channel.  I have ordered an Electro Harmonix 6922 and JJ E88CC and they should arrive next week and I'm excited to see how they sound.  Can someone tell me if the white residue at the top of my tube is evidence that the tube vacuum has been compromised or is that normal?


 
 White residue.. that's not good <.< an yea it shouldn't pop either
  
 ehm, but yea grats on the new Tubes! for the price, I like how the JJ series tubes sound, let us know how you like the Electro Harmonix


----------



## Defiant00

sneakydomo said:


> Hello all I'm new to the forum and jut got the Vali 2 yesterday.  Its my first experience with a tube amp and I'm enjoying the different sound from the Fiio E-10k that I am used to with my 400i's.  That said I think the tube choice is pretty bad, I'd rather have a really mediocre new production tube than what I received.  Already intermittent popping in one channel.  I have ordered an Electro Harmonix 6922 and JJ E88CC and they should arrive next week and I'm excited to see how they sound.  Can someone tell me if the white residue at the top of my tube is evidence that the tube vacuum has been compromised or is that normal?




While I'm not sure if the residue is normal (I have no tube gear), you should contact Schiit about the popping, as that definitely isn't normal. I'd be quite surprised if they don't send you a good new tube, they're typically really good about taking care of customers.


----------



## Makiah S

defiant00 said:


> While I'm not sure if the residue is normal (I have no tube gear), you should contact Schiit about the popping, as that definitely isn't normal. I'd be quite surprised if they don't send you a good new tube, they're typically *really good about taking care of customers.*


 
 that they are


----------



## Tuneslover

mshenay said:


> White residue.. that's not good <.< an yea it shouldn't pop either
> 
> ehm, but yea grats on the new Tubes! for the price, I like how the JJ series tubes sound, let us know how you like the Electro Harmonix


 
 I'm thinking that the quality of the source and of course the headphone selection have quite a bit to do with one's assessment on how the Vali 2 sounds.  The Vali 2 is my first foray into tube amplification so I'm still trying to bend my mind around the different sound signature from my tried and tested solid state amps.  I'm pretty open minded and forgiving so I have no issues with the Vali 2 so far, in fact I'm kinda groovin' to this tube thingee.
  
 I must say that with my setup I'm finding the stock tubes (I ordered an extra one when I purchased my Vali) pretty darn good sounding.  I think it's pretty nicely balanced.  Last week I picked up a JJ tube because I was looking for just a bit more "sparkle" in the high frequencies.  On the "out of the box" play of the JJ tube I thought I had exactly what I was looking (listening) for but after 24 hours of continuous play (burn-in) I ended up liking the JJ tube less than the stock tube (the stock tubes also got 24 hours of continuous play, or burn-in).  Next week I'm going to pick up the Electro-Harmonix 6922EH that other posters have commented favourably on.  But that's it for my tube rolling exploits, at least for the time being.
  
 Next week I should be receiving my Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC which will end up in my main 2 channel system.  That's great because the current main system DAC (Schiit Bifrost 4490) will be re-located to my night table system which just happens to be where the Vali 2 is.  I have already sampled the Vali with the Bifrost 4490 and it sound pretty damn good.  In fact that intoxicating sound of the Vali 2 and Schiit Bifrost 4490 combo is what convinced me that they need to have a permanent relationship, which course justified the need to get a replacement DAC for my main system.  Oh the mind games we play to feed that quality music reproduction NEED.


----------



## Makiah S

tuneslover said:


> I'm thinking that the quality of the source and of course the headphone selection have quite a bit to do with one's assessment on how the Vali 2 sounds.  The Vali 2 is my first foray into tube amplification so I'm still trying to bend my mind around the different sound signature from my tried and tested solid state amps.  I'm pretty open minded and forgiving so I have no issues with the Vali 2 so far, in fact I'm kinda groovin' to this tube thingee.
> 
> I must say that with my setup I'm finding the stock tubes (I ordered an extra one when I purchased my Vali) pretty darn good sounding.  I think it's pretty nicely balanced.  Last week I picked up a JJ tube because I was looking for just a bit more "sparkle" in the high frequencies.  On the "out of the box" play of the JJ tube I thought I had exactly what I was looking (listening) for but after 24 hours of continuous play (burn-in) I ended up liking the JJ tube less than the stock tube (the stock tubes also got 24 hours of continuous play, or burn-in).  Next week I'm going to pick up the Electro-Harmonix 6922EH that other posters have commented favourably on.  But that's it for my tube rolling exploits, at least for the time being.
> 
> Next week I should be receiving my Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC which will end up in my main 2 channel system.  That's great because the current main system DAC (Schiit Bifrost 4490) will be re-located to my night table system which just happens to be where the Vali 2 is.  I have already sampled the Vali with the Bifrost 4490 and it sound pretty damn good.  In fact that intoxicating sound of the Vali 2 and Schiit Bifrost 4490 combo is what convinced me that they need to have a permanent relationship, which course justified the need to get a replacement DAC for my main system.  Oh the mind games we play to feed that quality music reproduction NEED.


 
 Frankly, my NFB10ES2 Dac output is pretty resolving, as is the output on my HM901 :/ [they use the same Dac Chip different circuits of course]  an that said, even with my HE 4 I wasn't impressed with it compare to the Project Starlight I had beside of me, how ever when I rolled another tube into the Vali 2 I found it to be a great improvement over stock. To my ears, the stock tube had a very smeared sound stage, moderate left an right with no real center.


----------



## Tuneslover

mshenay said:


> Frankly, my NFB10ES2 Dac output is pretty resolving, as is the output on my HM901 :/ [they use the same Dac Chip different circuits of course]  an that said, even with my HE 4 I wasn't impressed with it compare to the Project Starlight I had beside of me, how ever when I rolled another tube into the Vali 2 I found it to be a great improvement over stock. To my ears, the stock tube had a very smeared sound stage, moderate left an right with no real center.


 
 Which tube was that then?  Funny, I think the stock tube sounds awfully balanced.  I don't understand smeared, do you mean unclear?
  
 I was originally planning on getting the Project Ember II but I already have a terrific amp (solid state, Lake People G109S) that makes my HD650's and HE500's sing to their potential.  So I thought, I don't know do I want to throw more cash at more amplification?  I'm from Canada so the Ember was going to cost me a friggin ridiculous amount of dough so I thought, nah.  But I wanted to experience a tube amp and the Vali2 was priced too well to pass on.  It does sound pretty damn sweet though, especially for the money.  If there's a tube that makes it ridiculously awesome, then do tell.


----------



## Makiah S

tuneslover said:


> Which tube was that then?  Funny, I think the stock tube sounds awfully balanced.  I don't understand smeared, do you mean unclear?
> 
> I was originally planning on getting the Project Ember II but I already have a terrific amp (solid state, Lake People G109S) that makes my HD650's and HE500's sing to their potential.  So I thought, I don't know do I want to throw more cash at more amplification?  I'm from Canada so the Ember was going to cost me a friggin ridiculous amount of dough so I thought, nah.  But I wanted to experience a tube amp and the Vali2 was priced too well to pass on.  It does sound pretty damn sweet though, especially for the money.  If there's a tube that makes it ridiculously awesome, then do tell.


 
 I used a Reflektor 6N23P, an I really enjoyed the more open an cohesive sound, the Stock GE tube isn't all that impressive imo


----------



## jimdandy

I have a question that I hope someone can help me with. I have discovered that I lost my CD case with most of my CDs when I moved. Instead of buying back the CDs I'm thinking about getting back into vinyls. I'm thinking about getting TEAC TN-300 turntable and connecting it to the Vali 2 to run my 400i headphones. Has anyone done anything like this? And if so did it sound good? Or is there a better way of using the Vali 2 with vinyl and achieve a better out come? I don't have a lot of money. About a 1000 is the budget I have because I have other things I need to do. Thank You.


----------



## Supa Mint

fjrabon said:


> The real winners here are the Grado people.  This looks like a just about perfect amp for them.  My previous perfect Grado amp was the Lyr on low gain with tubes, but to be totally honest the Lyr was always a bit overkill, there just wasn't a great low impedance tube amp that matched Grados all that well.  If I was still heavy into Grado, I'd have already ordered this.


 
  
 Based on your experience with the Lyr, I wonder if you have any suggestions for tubes for the Vali 2 that would pair well with Grados.  I have no experience with tube rolling, so I'm only imagining what changes to the sound are possible with different tubes.  I have an 80e that I love for listening to guitar rock.  Are there tubes that take that signature Grado sound to the next level?  And hopefully without adding any additional brightness...  thanks!


----------



## Makiah S

supa mint said:


> Based on your experience with the Lyr, I wonder if you have any suggestions for tubes for the Vali 2 that would pair well with Grados.  I have no experience with tube rolling, so I'm only imagining what changes to the sound are possible with different tubes.  I have an 80e that I love for listening to guitar rock.  Are there tubes that take that signature Grado sound to the next level?  And hopefully without adding any additional brightness...  thanks!


 
 I really like my 6n23P with my Grados, I also liked how that tube sounded with the Vali 2 in general oh but AVOID AVOID AVOID clear tops if your a grado fan


----------



## nwavesailor

I was looking forward to this little amp as I had a nice assortment of 6DJ8, 6922 and 7308 to try.
  
 Started with the stock Sylvania tube, then onto Amperex orange globe 6DJ8, Amperex gold pin 6922, and Amperex USN, CEP 7308 as well as a Mullard 6DJ8. They all sounded good, but when going back to just the lowly iPod Nano, I heard way more detail then with the amp.
  
 I will be trying a Tungsram 7DJ8 tomorrow and perhaps I will find the detail that sounds like it is being rolled off. I really want to like and keep this little amp, but I threw some pretty nice tubes at it and it fell short, IMO, in detail.
  
_(edit) I also have some EH 6922 & EH Gold 6922's to try. Some have found good detail in these current production tubes. That would be nice!......also a RCA 6CG7_


----------



## Capt369

nwavesailor said:


> I was looking forward to this little amp as I had a nice assortment of 6DJ8, 6922 and 7308 to try.
> 
> Started with the stock Sylvania tube, then onto Amperex orange globe 6DJ8, Amperex gold pin 6922, and Amperex USN, CEP 7308 as well as a Mullard 6DJ8. They all sounded good, but when going back to just the lowly iPod Nano, I heard way more detail then with the amp.
> 
> I will be trying a Tungsgram 7DJ8 tomorrow and perhaps I will find the detail that sounds like it is being rolled off. I really want to like and keep this little amp, but I threw some pretty nice tubes at it and it fell short, IMO, in detail.


 

 Maybe a Siemens will give you what you are looking for.


----------



## Designer79

nwavesailor said:


> I was looking forward to this little amp as I had a nice assortment of 6DJ8, 6922 and 7308 to try.
> 
> Started with the stock Sylvania tube, then onto Amperex orange globe 6DJ8, Amperex gold pin 6922, and Amperex USN, CEP 7308 as well as a Mullard 6DJ8. They all sounded good, but when going back to just the lowly iPod Nano, I heard way more detail then with the amp.
> 
> I will be trying a Tungsgram 7DJ8 tomorrow and perhaps I will find the detail that sounds like it is being rolled off. I really want to like and keep this little amp, but I threw some pretty nice tubes at it and it fell short, IMO, in detail.


 

 After reading this post I got curious if I could hear a similar difference between my main setup with PC running Tidal HiFi (FLAC 1411 kb/s) --> Modi 2 U --> Vali 2 w/ stock tube Sylvania "made in USA" --> Beyerdynamic T90 and my trusted iPad 2 also running Tidal HiFi --> internal DAC --> headphone jack --> Beyerdynamic T90. I definitely can't say that the iPad resolved more detail:
  
 Tested tracks: Norah Jones' "In the Morning" and Macklemore & Ryan Lewis' "Wing$"
  
 "In The Morning": With my Schiit set up there is a definitely wider soundstage. The guitar playing the main melody on the outer left side of the soundstage and the rhythm guitar on the outer right side seem to be an estimated 40% wider apart, than while listening on the iPad 2. Also when the accoustic bass sets in, the seperation in the center of the stage between Norah's voice, the bass and the little bits of organ is definitely clearer.
 The better resolution of detail becomes obvious during the guitar solo. Always well seperated at the right end of the soundstage one can hear the rhythm guitar playing a muted stroke pattern. The details of the stroke pattern, the strength and emphasis put in the strumming are definitely better rendered through the Modi 2 U /  Vali 2 combo. The only detail the Schiit stack falls short a bit is in the center soundstage where in the background a little egg-shaker is heard. I am under the impression this shaker is better rendered while listening on the iPad 2. Maybe a hint that my stock tube is a tad warmer than neutral.
  
 "Wing$":This bit of warmness helps the Macklemore song. While "The Heist" being an expertly mastered album, despite the fact it's modern Rap, it suffers a bit from sibilence. But also here the resolving of detail and more width in soundstage is improved through the use of the amp. In "Wing$" the amp helps the rendering of the bass, it's tighter and punchier for sure. One detail I like is at the beginning of the track, the drummer uses a single drumstick on the rim for the count in. Definitely detail-improved vs. iPad 2. Also there is the crowd clapping, while on the iPad it sounds quite 1-dimensional, through the Vali 2 you can clearly hear the panning from left to right, wider soundstage ...
  
 I like this little amp a lot! Still trying to find the best fit of tube with my T90's though. I definitely think a warmer tube would be better for the Beyerdynamic, but I wouldn't want to lose too much detail in the center soundstage. Any hint would be appreciated!


----------



## Makiah S

designer79 said:


> After reading this post I got curious if I could hear a similar difference between my main setup with PC running Tidal HiFi (FLAC 1411 kb/s) --> Modi 2 U --> Vali 2 w/ stock tube Sylvania "made in USA" --> Beyerdynamic T90 and my trusted iPad 2 also running Tidal HiFi --> internal DAC --> headphone jack --> Beyerdynamic T90. I definitely can't say that the iPad resolved more detail:
> 
> Tested tracks: Norah Jones' "In the Morning" and Macklemore & Ryan Lewis' "Wing$"
> 
> ...


 
 well I liked Clear Tops when I had the DT 990 an my old Indeed G3, though when I tried a Clear Top in my Starlight with my Denons I wasn't a fan

 still I found the Clear Top keeps the nice energy of the T90 while adding some warmth, not sure if there is a 6v series


----------



## nwavesailor

Trying more tubes.........
  
 RCA 6CG7: still lacking the detail that is there with just the iPod (no Vali 2)
  
 EH 6922 Gold: best tube so far, but still not as good as iPod alone (will try the non gold version of the EH 6922 later)
  
 This little amp does sound very nice......................until I plug the iPod back in and then I realize there is a lot more going on that I am not hearing with the Vali 2. The soundstage may indeed be bigger with the Vali 2 and if the detail was there it would be a sweet combo for me!
  
 Later today I will snag the 'regular' EH 6922 and the Tungsram 7DJ8.............then I'm out of tubes to try.


----------



## joeexp

What DAC are you using at the moment?


----------



## nwavesailor

No standalone DAC, so it is the DAC that is in the iPod. My 7th Gen has no digital out and hard, if not impossible, to add one w/o a lot of adapters cables etc.
  
 The point of the Vali 2, at least for me, was using my simple iPod with lots of music and adding a small amp to perhaps get better sound. The detail is there when using the iPod alone and very veiled with the Vali 2.
  
 I'll give it some more time and try a couple of more tubes.


----------



## Designer79

It's interesting that the internal DAC of the iPod Nano does such a good job of retrieving detail in the music, I wonder what chip they use, hard to find any info on it on the web. The Vali 2 definitely helps widening the sound stage though, as described before clearly audible during my short test-listening. I value 3-dimensionality and a wide sound stage over detail, but pair a nicely resolving / retrieving headphone like the mid- to hifi Beyerdynamics with the Vali 2 and it's the complete package.
 I wonder if someone has any experience with the Tesla E88CC gold pins seems like they might be my first step up from the stock tube.


> Originally Posted by *Mshenay*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I hope the Tesla E88CC does exactly this, adding some warmth but keeping the energy. I checked, the Clear Top do not have a 6V series, unfortunately.


----------



## nwavesailor

I am not giving up this early in the Vali 2 game, just trying more tube options!
  
 I agree that there may be a wider sound stage and more 3 D imaging with the Vali 2, but I need a bit more detail...........not the (IMO) Grado bright, ultra detail, just what detail is there before going into this amp...............with more detail AND the better sound stage, these would be killer!


----------



## joeexp

nwavesailor said:


> I am not giving up this early in the Vali 2 game, just trying more tube options!
> 
> I agree that there may be a wider sound stage and more 3 D imaging with the Vali 2, but I need a bit more detail...........not the (IMO) Grado bright, ultra detail, just what detail is there before going into this amp...............with more detail AND the better sound stage, these would be killer!


 

 Why don't you get a proper DAC first before investing copious amounts in tubes...
 Even the stock tubes are very good with plenty of detail if you let them burn in a little.
 The "problem" in your setup is not the Vali 2 or the tubes you are using,  but the iPod as source IMHO…..
 You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear! LOL


----------



## nwavesailor

joeexp said:


> Why don't you get a proper DAC first before investing copious amounts in tubes...
> Even the stock tubes are very good with plenty of detail if you let them burn in a little.
> The "problem" in your setup is not the Vali 2 or the tubes you are using,  but the iPod as source IMHO…..
> You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear! LOL


 

 No new $$$ investment in tubes, I already have these tubes from other gear. The iPod is being used in a small convenient secondary system and that is why I went with the Vali 2. Small, inexpensive plus I have a good stock of some pretty nice tubes.
  
 I understand that the DAC in the iPod is solid state and I'm sending the signal through a vacuum tube which adds a degree of warmth. I'm just trying to get close to as much detail as I have from using the iPod alone.


----------



## varzyl

nwavesailor said:


> No standalone DAC, so it is the DAC that is in the iPod. My 7th Gen has no digital out and hard, if not impossible, to add one w/o a lot of adapters cables etc.


 
  
 Aren't you double-amping then? Isn't it possible that the loss of detail is caused by that?


----------



## joeexp

See that's where you are wrong! The Vali 2 is not a warm sounding amp per se and is able to give yo plenty of detail.
 It can be warm sounding if you change the tube accordingly.
 I have been feeding the Vali 2 with some pretty good DACS (Schiit Bifrost MB and Schiit Gungnir MB) and I am getting very good results.
 I don't have any noise issues either - in fact my Vali 2 is very quiet.
 Again YMMV …..
  
 Perhaps you are used to listening to the strident iPod sound and are confusing the treble high with detail ..
 Just a thought.


----------



## Makiah S

joeexp said:


> See that's where you are wrong! The Vali 2 is not a warm sounding amp per se and is able to give yo plenty of detail.
> It can be warm sounding if you change the tube accordingly.
> I have been feeding the Vali 2 with some pretty good DACS (Schiit Bifrost MB and Schiit Gungnir MB) and I am getting very good results.
> I don't have any noise issues either - in fact my Vali 2 is very quiet.
> ...


 
 I wouldn't call the Wolfson dac in an iPod "strident"
  


varzyl said:


> Aren't you double-amping then? Isn't it possible that the loss of detail is caused by that?


 
 but ths issue is he is double amping :/ you need to use a Line Out Cable for your iPod not the headphone out


----------



## nwavesailor

Joeexp:
 I do agree that is is a very quiet amp and that is hard to do in tube gear.
  
 No, I am not confusing 'treble high with detail'.
  
 I detest ultra bright sibilant sounding audio!!!


----------



## Tuneslover

Yes I agree with @joeexp that you might want to try something other than an ipod. I used to use my ipod Classic 160 GB unit and found when I introduced an external amp that the quality of music became less satisfying. I ended up with a FiiO X3ii and everything sound wise aligned beautifully. My ipod has been relugated to gym usage now. Upgrade-itis has set in since then as I upgraded to to the slightly better sounding X5ii with its 2 microSD slots.


----------



## Makiah S

tuneslover said:


> Yes I agree with @joeexp that you might want to try something other than an ipod. I used to use my ipod Classic 160 GB unit and found when I introduced an external amp that the quality of music became less satisfying. I ended up with a FiiO X3ii and everything sound wise aligned beautifully. My ipod has been relugated to gym usage now. Upgrade-itis has set in since then as I upgraded to to the slightly better sounding X5ii with its 2 microSD slots.


 
 yea my iPod is also on Gym Duty, my HM 601 is now on Speaker Duty for when I clean or I'm driving an the 901 has remained my headphone portable still ^^ 
  


nwavesailor said:


> Joeexp:
> I do agree that is is a very quiet amp and that is hard to do in tube gear.
> 
> No, I am not confusing 'treble high with detail'.
> ...


 
 Seriosuly, make sure you are using a Line Out Cable, other wise you end up with noise an a poor quality of sound


----------



## Letmebefrank

Just tested my ipod touch 4g feeding directly into my vali 2 with a nice audioquest 3.5mm to RCA cable. Using the same files on the ipod as my Pc (ALAC) there is a noticeable lack of clarity and the center seems scooped out as opposed to the full spectrum clarity of my pc>toslink>modi2u>vali2.


----------



## Designer79

mshenay said:


> yea my iPod is also on Gym Duty, my HM 601 is now on Speaker Duty for when I clean or I'm driving an the 901 has remained my headphone portable still ^^
> 
> Seriosuly, make sure you are using a Line Out Cable, other wise you end up with noise an a poor quality of sound


 

 +1
  
 Problem solved. Running the iPod Nano via headphone jack into the Vali, not such a good idea ... There are adapters for using the lightning port to have line out. There's another thread on Head-Fi, covering exactly this topic here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/635800/impression-apple-nano-7g-lightning-to-30pin-


----------



## Makiah S

designer79 said:


> +1
> 
> Problem solved. Running the iPod Nano via headphone jack into the Vali, not such a good idea ... There are adapters for using the lightning port to have line out. There's another thread on Head-Fi, covering exactly this topic here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/635800/impression-apple-nano-7g-lightning-to-30pin-


 
 thank you for the link man!


----------



## Tuneslover

I believe I have the same cable (Evergreen or something like that) but use it from the Line Out from my X5ii. I'm not familiar with the ipod Touch so are you using a line out as well or are you going from the headphone out? If you're using the headphone out you will definitely get a poorer sound going to the Vali.


----------



## Designer79

letmebefrank said:


> Just tested my ipod touch 4g feeding directly into my vali 2 with a nice audioquest 3.5mm to RCA cable. Using the same files on the ipod as my Pc (ALAC) there is a noticeable lack of clarity and the center seems scooped out as opposed to the full spectrum clarity of my pc>toslink>modi2u>vali2.


 

 Repeated @Letmebefrank's experiment. I can confirm his findings: massive loss of clarity. I listened to the same Norah Jones track on Tidal HiFi again first over PC - Toslink - Modi 2 U - Vali 2. Then through iPhone 5S - headphone jack - good profigold 3.5 mm to RCA cable - Vali 2, and damn, the left and right end of the sound stage almost disappear! The mids / central sound stage therefor overbear everything else. I wouldn't have guessed such a dramatic difference, but seriously, amping out of a headphone jack is not a good idea ...


----------



## nwavesailor

letmebefrank said:


> Just tested my ipod touch 4g feeding directly into my vali 2 with a nice audioquest 3.5mm to RCA cable. Using the same files on the ipod as my Pc (ALAC) there is a noticeable lack of clarity and the center seems scooped out as opposed to the full spectrum clarity of my pc>toslink>modi2u>vali2.


 

 Ah, Grasshopper............I now see that how I am connected is likely the reason why I am indeed losing detail................... not the Vali 2, tubes or the iPod!
  
 So I need a line out cable(s) from the gen 7 iPod into the Vali 2. (I'll double check to connectors at the iPod thread)
  
 I really do love the Vali 2's small footprint, cost and use of 1 tube. If this solves my lack of detail issue I will be thrilled!
  
 Sorry I hijacked the Vali 2 thread into an iPod connection thread


----------



## Tuneslover

I'm not sure what connections are required for your setup but it's pretty clear that you should be going for a LINE OUT connection from your music device, assuming it has one.


----------



## Makiah S

nwavesailor said:


> Ah, Grasshopper............I now see that how I am connected is likely the reason why I am indeed losing detail................... not the Vali 2, tubes or the iPod!
> 
> So I need a line out cable(s) from the gen 7 iPod into the Vali 2. (I'll double check to connectors at the iPod thread)
> 
> ...


 
  
  


tuneslover said:


> I'm not sure what connections are required for your setup but it's pretty clear that you should be going for a LINE OUT connection from your music device, assuming it has one.


 
 You didn't entirely hiJack it, this really makes a good point for any an all amps
  
 use a line out, there should be one for your iPod 
  
 any ways, I'm giving some of the 6V tubes a listen in my Starlight, it's a shame the Vali 2 won't take 6NS7 tubes  they sound pretty good


----------



## CPhoenix

This is funny; I have a 3+ year old original Magni amp (my only amp) that I use with an equally old odac and a pair of He-400's (not He-400s mind you, just the plain old HE-400). Should be an obvious question but anyone think upgrading to the Vali 2 would be a good match for these phones because before coming across this thread I was seriously considering the Asgard 2. I ask because I've been happy with the sound I've been getting these past couple of years until I finally started buying lossless tracks online, then I started REALLY noticing sibilance with certain tracks... which I find I'm not too fond of...


----------



## Makiah S

cphoenix said:


> This is funny; I have a 3+ year old original Magni amp (my only amp) that I use with an equally old odac and a pair of He-400's (not He-400s mind you, just the plain old HE-400). Should be an obvious question but anyone think upgrading to the Vali 2 would be a good match for these phones because before coming across this thread I was seriously considering the Asgard 2. I ask because I've been happy with the sound I've been getting these past couple of years until I finally started buying lossless tracks online, then I started REALLY noticing sibilance with certain tracks... which I find I'm not too fond of...


 
 I think'd you enjoy the pairing, I liked my HE 400 back in the day with J$money Pads which were fairly dark, additionally I found the HE 400 to be very simmilar to the DT 990 I had [in terms of sound signiture] an I enjoyed the DT 990 very much with tubes!


----------



## CPhoenix

Nice. Thanks for the info. I think anything would be an upgrade from the Magni at this point; after buying it doing more research on it revealed it might have not been the best choice for the HE-400. Although there's so many new options just from Schiit alone that it's hard not to be curious about every shiny new thing I see.


----------



## Makiah S

cphoenix said:


> Nice. Thanks for the info. I think anything would be an upgrade from the Magni at this point; after buying it doing more research on it revealed it might have not been the best choice for the HE-400. Although there's so many new options just from Schiit alone that it's hard not to be curious about every shiny new thing I see.


 
 honestly I really liked the HE 4 with the Vali 2 and a 6n23p tube


----------



## jfoxvol

painted klown said:


> Do you feel the Vali 2 has enough resolution to keep up with the Bifrost multibit? In other words, do you feel the Vali 2 loses or masks any of the resolution that (everyone seems to think) the Bimby is capable of?
> 
> Most of my listening is done with Senn HD-650's.
> 
> I hope that question makes sense.


 

 I spent some time this weekend with Vali 2, HD650, Bifrost MB.  It sounds very good.  I'm using a 6CG7 tube versus the stock tube.  I did a whole lot of tube and headphone swapping so I don't have very detailed notes.  However, I can say that the HD650 had plenty of detail.  It's never been accused of being bright but it scales really well and this amp/dac combination work well together with the HD650s.  I also used an Ether C and Denon AHD7000.  The latter not as much.  That's mostly the headphone's fault.


----------



## gibby

jfoxvol said:


> I spent some time this weekend with Vali 2, HD650, Bifrost MB.  It sounds very good.  I'm using a 6CG7 tube versus the stock tube.  I did a whole lot of tube and headphone swapping so I don't have very detailed notes.  However, I can say that the HD650 had plenty of detail.  It's never been accused of being bright but it scales really well and this amp/dac combination work well together with the HD650s.  I also used an Ether C and Denon AHD7000.  The latter not as much.  That's mostly the headphone's fault.


 
 Did you use hi or low gain?  I can't wait to try the HD600 tomorrow.  The X2 sounds pretty dang good.  I just have my X5 lineout to the Vali 2.  I'm researching streaming boxes...Sonos?


----------



## jfoxvol

gibby said:


> Did you use hi or low gain?  I can't wait to try the HD600 tomorrow.  The X2 sounds pretty dang good.  I just have my X5 lineout to the Vali 2.  I'm researching streaming boxes...Sonos?


 

 Hi gain.  I figured at 300 ohms they'd need voltage.  HD600 also sounds great.  I've swapped a few tubes out and my ears keep coming back to the 6CG7.  The 6922 I have is a NOS Jan Philips and wasn't cheap.  It's a close second.  Fuller overall sounding than the 6CG7 but not as much micro dynamics (barely) and less bottom end (again, slightly).  The stock tube is fine.  Stock tubes are just that.  Stock.  They're good.  But the guys are limited in what they can put as stock tube in high quantities.  That's part of the fun of tubes.  You get to experiment.


----------



## gibby

jfoxvol said:


> Hi gain.  I figured at 300 ohms they'd need voltage.  HD600 also sounds great.  I've swapped a few tubes out and my ears keep coming back to the 6CG7.  The 6922 I have is a NOS Jan Philips and wasn't cheap.  It's a close second.  Fuller overall sounding than the 6CG7 but not as much micro dynamics (barely) and less bottom end (again, slightly).  The stock tube is fine.  Stock tubes are just that.  Stock.  They're good.  But the guys are limited in what they can put as stock tube in high quantities.  That's part of the fun of tubes.  You get to experiment.


 
 I have the 6FQ7 / 6CG7 RCA clear top.  It does sound pretty great.  Thank you for the quick reply.


----------



## jfoxvol

gibby said:


> I have the 6FQ7 / 6CG7 RCA clear top.  It does sound pretty great.  Thank you for the quick reply.


 

 Sure thing.  That particular one I planned on getting.  I dropped 20 bucks to get the EH repro as a test first.  So far so good.  May grab one down the road.


----------



## Makiah S

gibby said:


> I have the 6FQ7 / 6CG7 RCA clear top.  It does sound pretty great.  Thank you for the quick reply.


 
 Nice! While the Vali won't support it, I have a GE 6SN7 GTB with a clear top, getter on the sides that I like


----------



## Currawong

Those of you connecting an iPod to the Vali, are you setting the volume at maximum on the iPod?


----------



## gibby

currawong said:


> Those of you connecting an iPod to the Vali, are you setting the volume at maximum on the iPod?


 
 I would try to get line out from your iPod if possible.  I know the older ones could get line out from the dock connector using an adapter.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/615499/line-out-dock-vs-headphone-out/30
  
 Of course, if it sounds okay to you, who cares.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

I've recently gained a modded HD600. Still using the stock tube, I can say it really sounds terrific with the Vali 2. Very full bodied and easy to listen to.


----------



## Currawong

gibby said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > Those of you connecting an iPod to the Vali, are you setting the volume at maximum on the iPod?
> ...


 

 The point is, if you are using the volume on an iDevice, which is digital, you are truncating the digital data (as far as I know) and reducing the sound quality. That being said, I have trouble noticing significant differences from my iPhone 6 as the source using either volume, though using the digital volume, so I could be asking the wrong question.


----------



## HOWIE13

mshenay said:


> You didn't entirely hiJack it, this really makes a good point for any an all amps
> 
> use a line out, there should be one for your iPod
> 
> any ways, I'm giving some of the 6V tubes a listen in my Starlight, it's a shame the Vali 2 won't take 6NS7 tubes  they sound pretty good


 
  
 The Vali 2 does take 6SN7 tubes but as well as a 6SN7 to ECC88 adapter you need a Noval 9 pin socket saver/extender too.


----------



## HOWIE13

cphoenix said:


> This is funny; I have a 3+ year old original Magni amp (my only amp) that I use with an equally old odac and a pair of He-400's (not He-400s mind you, just the plain old HE-400). Should be an obvious question but anyone think upgrading to the Vali 2 would be a good match for these phones because before coming across this thread I was seriously considering the Asgard 2. I ask because I've been happy with the sound I've been getting these past couple of years until I finally started buying lossless tracks online, then I started REALLY noticing sibilance with certain tracks... which I find I'm not too fond of...
> .


 
 I'm very sensitive to sibilance but a big advantage of tube over SS amps is you can usually fine-tune with judicious tube rolling to achieve the sound you want.
 It should be possible to find a tube that reduces the sibilance, though if it's a strongly sibilant recording it may be difficult to remove completely without equalising.


----------



## jfoxvol

howie13 said:


> The Vali 2 does take 6SN7 tubes but as well as a 6SN7 to ECC88 adapter you need a Noval 9 pin socket saver/extender too.


 
 Hahaha!  This is amazing.  I can't act like I'm not impressed.


----------



## Tuneslover

I'm glad that the Bifrost MB and Vali2 pairs well with the HD650's. I prefer the Vali2 to run in Hi gain with my650's. I've been listening to my HE500's on the Vali as well and if you want some good bass Hi gain is also required for those cans.


----------



## Makiah S

howie13 said:


> The Vali 2 does take 6SN7 tubes but as well as a 6SN7 to ECC88 adapter you need a Noval 9 pin socket saver/extender too.




oh snap that's very cool. What's the tube your running there man


----------



## HOWIE13

mshenay said:


> oh snap that's very cool. What's the tube your running there man


 
 The top photo is with a Sylvania 6SN7 'Bad Boy' and the lower photo with a Shuguang CV181-Z


----------



## Makiah S

howie13 said:


> The top photo is with a Sylvania 6SN7 'Bad Boy' and the lower photo with a Shuguang CV181-Z


 
 Hows that Shuguang sound


----------



## HOWIE13

mshenay said:


> Hows that Shuguang sound


 
 I bought the Vali for my daughter and I'm just having some fun with it really.
 The Shuguang is a very nice neutral tube- it has a smooth warmth, but enough dynamic to keep things interesting. Good all rounder, especially good for vocals and piano but would probably suit most genres. It's expensive though.


----------



## Makiah S

howie13 said:


> I bought the Vali for my daughter and I'm just having some fun with it really.
> The Shuguang is a very nice neutral tube- it has a smooth warmth, but enough dynamic to keep things interesting. Good all rounder, especially good for vocals and piano but would probably suit most genres. It's expensive though.


 
 $68s not to bad if it's the right tube, I've already spent $80 this month on a couple, including around $45 on a 1975 Vokshod Rocket [Single Wire Grey Shield] is it NOS or new production


----------



## HOWIE13

mshenay said:


> $68s not to bad if it's the right tube, I've already spent $80 this month on a couple, including around $45 on a 1975 Vokshod Rocket [Single Wire Grey Shield] is it NOS or new production


 
 New- here's the link which gives some info about the tube too. There are several versions of Shuguang tubes, but this is the only one I've heard.
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Latest-Shuguang-Treasure-Series-CV181-Z-Audio-Vacuum-Tube-for-amplifier-1PCS-/261595519004?hash=item3ce84ed81c:g:ORoAAOSw0HVWBCaP


----------



## Makiah S

ooh neat yea I eBay searched them


----------



## HOWIE13

mshenay said:


> ooh neat yea I eBay searched them


 
 Before you purchase remember my musical tastes and ears won't be identical to your own so best to read up a bit more about them.
 The Vokshod's are quite different- more  dynamic and exciting, less warm to my ears.


----------



## Makiah S

howie13 said:


> Before you purchase remember my musical tastes and ears won't be identical to your own so best to read up a bit more about them.
> The Vokshod's are quite different- more  dynamic and exciting, less warm to my ears.


 
 Oh I didn't purchase one, I was just curiously exploring the options as a whole, I'm hoping the VokShod I grab sounds really amazing! It'll be here in about 10 or so days :3 
  
 Though I might have a Video review up comparing the Schiit Vali 2 [running the same 6n23P tubes I'm using in my Starlight] here tonight


----------



## HOWIE13

mshenay said:


> Oh I didn't purchase one, I was just curiously exploring the options as a whole, I'm hoping the VokShod I grab sounds really amazing! It'll be here in about 10 or so days :3
> 
> Though I might have a Video review up comparing the Schiit Vali 2 [running the same 6n23P tubes I'm using in my Starlight] here tonight


 
 I've been following your comparisons so far between the two amps and found them very interesting.
 Although I'm only 'playing' with the Vali as it's for my daughter it strikes me as very good value.
 However, I also hear a quiet background hum with several cans, including the ubiquitous HD650, and several tubes (not all though), on high gain, which I need for the wide dynamics of Classical stuff. It's not intrusive unless the music is very soft. It may be to do with my mains grounding rather than to do with the amp.
 Low gain is impressively quiet though and suits low impedance cans really well.
 I look forward to your video..


----------



## Makiah S

howie13 said:


> I've been following your comparisons so far between the two amps and found them very interesting.
> Although I'm only 'playing' with the Vali as it's for my daughter it strikes me as very good value.
> However, *I also hear a quiet background hum with several cans, including the ubiquitous HD650, and several tubes (not all though), on high gain, which I need for the wide dynamics of Classical stuff.* It's not intrusive unless the music is very soft. It may be to do with my mains grounding rather than to do with the amp.
> Low gain is impressively quiet though and suits low impedance cans really well.
> I look forward to your video..


 
 well it's the amp, I have a Ferman Power Conditioner that I've been using for years, I grabbed it back when I had my first hybrid tube, thinking the tubes I got had more noise than was normal as well 
  
 but non the less, It should be up tonight! an it'll be my first video with my new Zoom Q4 Camera! Hoping to get a better video quality than what I've been using <.<


----------



## Currawong

This is hilarious, as much sound-wise as visually.  Tube is a GE-5692.


----------



## Letmebefrank

currawong said:


> This is hilarious, as much sound-wise as visually.  Tube is a GE-5692.


 
 Wow that is awesome! How does it sound? Which tube is it?


----------



## Makiah S

currawong said:


> This is hilarious, as much sound-wise as visually.  Tube is a GE-5692.


 
 awww Curraw get your self a Socket Save [a long one lol] but still it's nice to see the PCB


----------



## Currawong

letmebefrank said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > This is hilarious, as much sound-wise as visually.  Tube is a GE-5692.
> ...


 

 As written above, the 5692 (6SN7). It's a bit lively, maybe too much. I had it in the Studio Six for a while.  I put a Tung Sol in there just now, which is a bit smoother. I did look briefly at socket savers but the ones on eBay look a bit dodgy. Now if Jason were to order a few top plates with larger holes for the tubes.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Funnily enough, now I have a collection of tubes for the Vali 2, I've ordered an adaptor so I try a couple in the Studio Six.


----------



## HOWIE13

currawong said:


> As written above, the 5692 (6SN7). It's a bit lively, maybe too much. I had it in the Studio Six for a while.  I put a Tung Sol in there just now, which is a bit smoother. I did look briefly at socket savers but the ones on eBay look a bit dodgy. Now if Jason were to order a few top plates with larger holes for the tubes....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My socket saver sounds alright here, just an eBay Chinese cheapo, does the job. 
  

  
  
 Come to think of it Garage 1217 can provide top plates with both small and large holes for their amps so you can use Octals.
 Schiit should consider doing the same since using multiple adapters will most likely degrade the sound and maybe add microphonics.


----------



## Makiah S

howie13 said:


> Come to think of it Garage 1217 can provide top plates with both small and large holes for their amps so you can use Octals.
> Schiit should consider doing the same since using multiple adapters will most likely degrade the sound and maybe add microphonics.


 
 well the Vali 2 already has more noise in the circuit it self than the Starlight does, an while I'd love to see both a 12v an 6v support including octals, I have my doubts given the price point. Still though, the Vali 2 unlike the Starlight has considerably more power output! Given it's price an I can Schiit really did find a pretty good happy medium, while I love the customization of my Starlight it is limited to >300 ohm Under Dynamics... which is roughly 8/9 of what I own atm so for me it's perfect! 
  
 Though I'd love to see a balanced design based off the Valhalla2 with more power


----------



## JennifersYummie

Does anyone think those really tall tubes tend to produce more "airy" music?


----------



## Makiah S

jennifersyummie said:


> Does anyone think those really tall tubes tend to produce more "airy" music?


 
 Hmm that's a good question
  
 I do know I have a BIG GE 6sn7 GTB that's really airy


----------



## jlangholzj

jennifersyummie said:


> Does anyone think those really tall tubes tend to produce more "airy" music?


 
  
 Some guys say that yes, longer plates will give you more treble and a bit more "airy" sound along with a little more presence. I've not done an A-B myself so I can't say with 100% certainty but I've heard it around a few watercoolers.


----------



## jfoxvol

jlangholzj said:


> Some guys say that yes, longer plates will give you more treble and a bit more "airy" sound along with a little more presence. I've not done an A-B myself so I can't say with 100% certainty but I've heard it around a few watercoolers.


 

 I experienced that myself.  I'm sure physics has an answer for why.  I've noticed vastly increased micro dynamics and openness with tubes that have longer plates all else being equal.


----------



## Makiah S

jfoxvol said:


> I experienced that myself.  I'm sure physics has an answer for why.  I've noticed vastly increased micro dynamics and openness with tubes that have longer plates all else being equal.


 
 hmm I'll have to look into some long plate tubes, what familys are well know or is it just a manufactoring glitch


----------



## jlangholzj

mshenay said:


> hmm I'll have to look into some long plate tubes, what familys are well know or is it just a manufactoring glitch


 
  
 It's quite literally just finding iterations of the same family of tube that were manufacture with...well...longer plates. Some examples.


----------



## Makiah S

jlangholzj said:


> It's quite literally just finding iterations of the same family of tube that were manufacture with...well...longer plates. Some examples.


 
 ugh an here I just spent a ton on some short plates xD great
  
 well the good ish news is it seems, there are not to many "long" plate variants of the tubes I got  [well I found none]


----------



## HOWIE13

mshenay said:


> well the Vali 2 already has more noise in the circuit it self than the Starlight does, an while I'd love to see both a 12v an 6v support including octals, I have my doubts given the price point. Still though, the Vali 2 unlike the Starlight has considerably more power output! Given it's price an I can Schiit really did find a pretty good happy medium, while I love the customization of my Starlight it is limited to >300 ohm Under Dynamics... which is roughly 8/9 of what I own atm so for me it's perfect!
> 
> Though I'd love to see a balanced design based off the Valhalla2 with more power


 
 If you have the hum/noise too with the Vali2 then I presume it's inherent to the design, rather than me having a faulty unit, which is what I was beginning to think since nobody else on the Schiit Forums mentions the hum..
 This is a problem with, for instance, my HD650 as the hum is audible in quiet musical passages. So although the Vali2 has greater output power it come at the cost of noise, whereas the Starlight is absolutely silent. In any event the Starlight has ample power for my needs also. I can achieve 100 dB from my HE400's at the 11-12 o'clock position on the Starlight's vol pot.


----------



## joeexp

I don't have any hum or noise with my Vali 2.  Completely silent.


----------



## RickB

joeexp said:


> I don't have any hum or noise with my Vali 2.  Completely silent.


 
  
 Same here, with HD600.


----------



## Makiah S

howie13 said:


> If you have the hum/noise too with the Vali2 then I presume it's inherent to the design, rather than me having a faulty unit, which is what I was beginning to think since nobody else on the Schiit Forums mentions the hum..
> This is a problem with, for instance, my HD650 as the hum is audible in quiet musical passages. So although the Vali2 has greater output power it come at the cost of noise, whereas the Starlight is absolutely silent. In any event the Starlight has ample power for my needs also. I can achieve 100 dB from my HE400's at the 11-12 o'clock position on the Starlight's vol pot.


 
  
  


joeexp said:


> I don't have any hum or noise with my Vali 2.  Completely silent.


 
  
  


rickb said:


> Same here, with HD600.


 
 Both my HE 4 an my W1000X have a very aggressive top end an are pretty sensitive to hum an noise. That an the 300 Ohm on the HD 600 does a great job at reducing that noise passively, I found that my 600 ohm Dt 880 was dead silent on the orignal vali, were as my w1000X was again noisy! Still with my all of my low impedance headphones it was audible, granted it's a HUGE step up from the Vali 1, but given the price there are quiter options for low impedance headphones 
  
 though, the Vali 2 in High gain offered me a much better quality of sound with my HE 4, than the Starlight. Simply because the Vali just had more power on tap to drive the rather insensitive HE 4, though the HE 400 isn't nearly as hard to drive as it's single sided brother


----------



## RickB

mshenay said:


> Both my HE 4 an my W1000X have a very aggressive top end an are pretty sensitive to hum an noise. That an the 300 Ohm on the HD 600 does a great job at reducing that noise passively, I found that my 600 ohm Dt 880 was dead silent on the orignal vali, were as my w1000X was again noisy! Still with my all of my low impedance headphones it was audible, granted it's a HUGE step up from the Vali 1, but given the price there are quiter options for low impedance headphones
> 
> though, the Vali 2 in High gain offered me a much better quality of sound with my HE 4, than the Starlight. Simply because the Vali just had more power on tap to drive the rather insensitive HE 4, though the HE 400 isn't nearly as hard to drive as it's single sided brother


 
  
 Maybe you got a bad tube?


----------



## Makiah S

rickb said:


> Maybe you got a bad tube?


 
 Well this was using the same 6n23p in the Vali 2 that I use with my Starlight, 
  
 in the starlight there was very little audible noise, in the Vali 2 the same tube was much noiser, the same applied to the stock tube in the Vali 2 as well. Just as a hole I found the amp to not have the same black background as the Starlight did


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

No hum on mine with the HD600, HE-400S, or Grado 225e.


----------



## Makiah S

merrick said:


> No hum on mine with the HD600, HE-400S, or Grado 225e.


 
 well that's good to know :3 how ever in my rig I didn't find the background to be entirely black 
  
 anyways, I'll have a full comparison review in both written an video form, I reshooting everything now 
  
 Frankly, in terms of sound quality, I found the Vali to be lacking overall, how ever it does have a lot of power on tap an it is very easy to operate. Where as with the Starlight you really need to experiment with the different jumper settings to get the best quality of sound. So to me each amp is really targeted at a different audiance, Schiit is like the Apple iOS. They sell an ecosystem of high quality an easy to own equipment, with Garage 1217 an the Starlight more like Android, better over all but only if you work to draw out the latent potential, or "experiment" a little 
  
 So obviously, the Starlight is not for every one. Some people will get frustrated with having to experiment, as they may already have busy lives an simply want a "plug an play" amp that just sounds good! For that market the Schiit Vali 2 is clearly the better purchase, an of course the reverse is also true. Others may be willing to spend the time need to get the better overall quality from the Starlight in their systems, as opposed to having to "settle" with the some what limited options the Vali 2 offers


----------



## HOWIE13

Sounds like some Vali2's hum and some don't. Maybe it's a power supply issue. I wonder how good the QC is in China?
 Mine can be most easily appreciated when I stop the music and switch from low to high gain. The background hum is then obvious as on low gain the amp is silent.


----------



## HOWIE13

mshenay said:


> well that's good to know :3 how ever in my rig I didn't find the background to be entirely black
> 
> anyways, I'll have a full comparison review in both written an video form, I reshooting everything now
> 
> ...


 
 I think that's a very good assessment.


----------



## bboris77

howie13 said:


> Sounds like some Vali2's hum and some don't. Maybe it's a power supply issue. I wonder how good the QC is in China?
> Mine can be most easily appreciated when I stop the music and switch from low to high gain. The background hum is then obvious as on low gain the amp is silent.


 

 It is also possible that some people are more sensitive to this type of noise than others. I am fairly confident that this is simply an inherent characteristic of the Vali 2 design considering that there are at least 3 people on this thread alone (including myself) that notice a very low level hum in the high gain mode when using very sensitive low-impedance headphones. I also did get an email back from their tech support confirming that this is normal behaviour for the Vali 2. It has to be underlined that this hum can only be heard when there is absolutely no music being played and your room has to be very quiet if you are using open-type headphones. Even a computer running a couple of fans in the same room would mask this hum. Basically, it is not an issue at all.


----------



## HOWIE13

bboris77 said:


> It is also possible that some people are more sensitive to this type of noise than others. I am fairly confident that this is simply an inherent characteristic of the Vali 2 design considering that there are at least 3 people on this thread alone (including myself) that notice a very low level hum in the high gain mode when using very sensitive low-impedance headphones. I also did get an email back from their tech support confirming that this is normal behaviour for the Vali 2. It has to be underlined that this hum can only be heard when there is absolutely no music being played and your room has to be very quiet if you are using open-type headphones. Even a computer running a couple of fans in the same room would mask this hum. Basically, it is not an issue at all.


 
 Yes I agree-the only problem for me is I listen mainly to Classical and there are often very quiet passages and gaps in the music. I can also hear it with my HD650's. It's also worth mentioning it's more obvious with certain tubes than others.
 I can accept it's not a fault, but I think it's worth mentioning when comparing with the completely silent background of Starlight.


----------



## bboris77

howie13 said:


> Yes I agree-the only problem for me is I listen mainly to Classical and there are often very quiet passages and gaps in the music. I can also hear it with my HD650's.
> I can accept it's not a fault, but I think it's worth mentioning when comparing with the completely silent background of Starlight.


 

 I understand completely and perhaps there are some minor variances in the level of hum on each unit, or maybe it has to do with the tube itself. I have the stock GE tube. By the way, do you find it that the HD650 sounds better/different in the high gain mode? I thought that my Q701 sounded a little more open and dynamic in the high gain mode, but I keep it in the low gain mode because it is supposed to have much lower distortion (at least in theory).


----------



## HOWIE13

bboris77 said:


> I understand completely and perhaps there are some minor variances in the level of hum on each unit, or maybe it has to do with the tube itself. I have the stock GE tube. By the way, do you find it that the HD650 sounds better/different in the high gain mode? I thought that my Q701 sounded a little more open and dynamic in the high gain mode, but I keep it in the low gain mode because it is supposed to have much lower distortion (at least in theory).


 
 I thought the same about theoretically expecting more distortion with high gain but, like you, I  find the HD650 is clearer and more articulate and dynamic on high gain, especially the mids and highs. I keep mine on high for this reason.


----------



## jlangholzj

bboris77 said:


> It is also possible that some people are more sensitive to this type of noise than others. I am fairly confident that this is simply an inherent characteristic of the Vali 2 design considering that there are at least 3 people on this thread alone (including myself) that notice a very low level hum in the high gain mode when using very sensitive low-impedance headphones. I also did get an email back from their tech support confirming that this is normal behaviour for the Vali 2. It has to be underlined that this hum can only be heard when there is absolutely no music being played and your room has to be very quiet if you are using open-type headphones. Even a computer running a couple of fans in the same room would mask this hum. Basically, it is not an issue at all.


 
  
  
 Absolutely some tubes are going to be more susceptible to noise than others. Even in the world of noisy 12ax7's there's several 'LPS' versions that have a lower noise floor than others.
  
 Additionally, I'd expect high-gain mode on low-Z cans to reveal some noise. I'm (obviously) not 100% sure how jason/mike decided to implement it but I've done an adjustable NFB loop to implement a low/hi gain mode in one of my previous designs. The low-Z and high-efficiency cans are going to inherently have a higher noise floor, so adding more NFB in basically killed two birds with one stone for me (it was an OTL design so I got better drive from a lower Z-out with low-Z cans along with some noise canceling). I bring this up because it very well could be how the vali2 implements it's low/high gain mode (with a NFB loop).
  
 If anyone who's experiencing hum puts the amp in low-gain with the lower Z cans, is the noise still prevalent? I'm curious to know.
  
 EDIT: I did notice that after all this rambling that boris noted the same thing in #708....whoops..


----------



## HOWIE13

jlangholzj said:


> Absolutely some tubes are going to be more susceptible to noise than others. Even in the world of noisy 12ax7's there's several 'LPS' versions that have a lower noise floor than others.
> 
> Additionally, I'd expect high-gain mode on low-Z cans to reveal some noise. I'm (obviously) not 100% sure how jason/mike decided to implement it but I've done an adjustable NFB loop to implement a low/hi gain mode in one of my previous designs. The low-Z and high-efficiency cans are going to inherently have a higher noise floor, so adding more NFB in basically killed two birds with one stone for me (it was an OTL design so I got better drive from a lower Z-out with low-Z cans along with some noise canceling). I bring this up because it very well could be how the vali2 implements it's low/high gain mode (with a NFB loop).
> 
> ...


 
 I don't get any noise with low impedance cans, like HP100/200, P5, E10, HE400.
 I guess it also speaks well for the design of the Vali 2 that I hear no audible distortion on high gain either, at reasonable/safe volumes, of course.
 As to the hum it's also probable different ears and brains are more or less sensitive. I know that once I think I've heard a hum (or any noise) I come to anticipate it, and that's not a good thing.


----------



## jlangholzj

howie13 said:


> I don't get any noise with low impedance cans, like HP100/200, P5, E10, HE400.
> I guess it also speaks well for the design of the Vali 2 that I hear no audible distortion on high gain either, at reasonable/safe volumes, of course.
> As to the hum it's also probable different ears and brains are more or less sensitive. I know that once I think I've heard a hum (or any noise) I come to anticipate it, and that's not a good thing.


 

 The stuck pixel that cannot be "unseen" on the monitor.....I know the feeling.
  
 As an aside I'd not expect any distortion from any amplifier so long as you've got a quality set of cans. Usually this (distortion/clipping/whathaveyou) comes from overdriving a gain stage somewhere *or* you've got a wonky bias point. The REAL bonus nachos is having a dynamic, well rounded signal at lower volumes. This is going to be minimized quite a lot by having the solid output stage as it's drive capability is CONSIDERABLY better than straight tubes. I digress however.....
  
 You said you've been leaving it in low-gain mode. If you switch over do you experience any hum/noise? Also I'd expect your observations to be pretty accurate (hooray!). If they are in fact doing a NFB loop, I'd expect it to be fed back into the input so any noise generated from the tube stage is eliminated as well. While not always the case, I've noted that several high efficiency cans tend to be a bit more...sparkly? So there could be some very slight passive filtering going on in "low gain" to help flatten the curve a bit. This of course varies infinitely for different cans...so YMMV. (again, a tactic I've employed on my OTL amp to help my 50 ohm cans...I've yet to get my hands on some 300+ ohms to test how they sound however so I'm not 100% set on this one yet).


----------



## Makiah S

howie13 said:


> I think that's a very good assessment.


 
  
  


howie13 said:


> Yes I agree-the only problem for me is I listen mainly to Classical and there are often very quiet passages and gaps in the music. I can also hear it with my HD650's. It's also worth mentioning it's more obvious with certain tubes than others.
> I can accept it's not a fault, but I think it's worth mentioning when comparing with the completely silent background of Starlight.


 
 I appreciate your feed back with me here, Howie13
  
 Really in terms of Value both amps are fantastic! An really excel with a different set of cans. As the Starlight can NOT drive my HE 4, but the Vali 2 can. Where as on the flip side the Vali 2 sounds noisy with my LA D5k, compared to the Starlight.


----------



## HOWIE13

jlangholzj said:


> The stuck pixel that cannot be "unseen" on the monitor.....I know the feeling.
> 
> As an aside I'd not expect any distortion from any amplifier so long as you've got a quality set of cans. Usually this (distortion/clipping/whathaveyou) comes from overdriving a gain stage somewhere *or* you've got a wonky bias point. The REAL bonus nachos is having a dynamic, well rounded signal at lower volumes. This is going to be minimized quite a lot by having the solid output stage as it's drive capability is CONSIDERABLY better than straight tubes. I digress however.....
> 
> You said you've been leaving it in low-gain mode. If you switch over do you experience any hum/noise? Also I'd expect your observations to be pretty accurate (hooray!). If they are in fact doing a NFB loop, I'd expect it to be fed back into the input so any noise generated from the tube stage is eliminated as well. While not always the case, I've noted that several high efficiency cans tend to be a bit more...sparkly? So there could be some very slight passive filtering going on in "low gain" to help flatten the curve a bit. This of course varies infinitely for different cans...so YMMV. (again, a tactic I've employed on my OTL amp to help my 50 ohm cans...I've yet to get my hands on some 300+ ohms to test how they sound however so I'm not 100% set on this one yet).


 
 It's good when theory and practice are in concordance. Actually I use high gain when needed and usually manage to ignore any hum. When a song ends I whistle or something to avoid hearing the hum (joking).


----------



## HOWIE13

mshenay said:


> I appreciate your feed back with me here, Howie13
> 
> Really in terms of Value both amps are fantastic! An really excel with a different set of cans. As the Starlight can NOT drive my HE 4, but the Vali 2 can. Where as on the flip side the Vali 2 sounds noisy with my LA D5k, compared to the Starlight.


 
 Yes, the Vali2 is very good. Having auto bias is a big plus too.
 I've rolled all sorts of exotic stuff in them, some of which I've posted, and it copes very well. 
 It's actually for my daughter so I don't want to play with it too much or she will think I bought it second hand.
 I prefer the Starlight because ultimately it can be fined tuned to accommodate more genres, but for ease of use and good sound the Vali2 is excellent value.


----------



## Tuneslover

My Vali exhibits no hum on lo or hi gain with both Sylvania stock tubes (I ordered an extra one) when listening with HE500 and HD650. However I do hear a subtle hum on hi gain with my JJ and EH tubes.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

tuneslover said:


> My Vali exhibits no hum on lo or hi gain with both stock tubes (I ordered an extra one). However I do hear a subtle hum on hi gain with my JJ and EH tubes.


 

 Different tubes have different heater geometry (and there are variances in production of any single tube type/manufacturer), so some will have higher or lower noise levels.


----------



## Tuneslover

I was listening to Black Sabbath's Snowblind the other evening in lo gain with HE500 and wondered why there was no bass. I switched to hi gain (volume matched) and the missing bass appeared.


----------



## roamling

howie13 said:


> Yes I agree-the only problem for me is I listen mainly to Classical and there are often very quiet passages and gaps in the music. I can also hear it with my HD650's. It's also worth mentioning it's more obvious with certain tubes than others.
> I can accept it's not a fault, but I think it's worth mentioning when comparing with the completely silent background of Starlight.


 
 I have the same issue, I can hear a hum when others cant. But interestingly you mentioned the Starlight. I had a Sunrise 2 but could hear a hum, so wondering if the Starlight has less hum?
 But the Vali might not be for me, after reading through this thread. But just in case somebody has the Vali 2 AND some of the Garage 1217 amps, how do they rank in regards to noise?


----------



## Makiah S

roamling said:


> I have the same issue, I can hear a hum when others cant. But interestingly you mentioned the Starlight. I had a Sunrise 2 but could hear a hum, so wondering if the Starlight has less hum?
> But the Vali might not be for me, after reading through this thread. *But just in case somebody has the Vali 2 AND some of the Garage 1217 amps, how do they rank in regards to noise?*


 
 I have both with me, an I'm working furiosuly on a comparison of the two. 
  
 For starters, give then Price the Starlight an Vali are equally good amps. How ever the Vali 2 does better with High Impedance Low Efficiany Headphones, where as the Starlight does best with Low Impedance and/or high sensitivity headphones 
  
 frankly, with the same tube an the same headphone [my LA D5k and a 6n23p] I found the Vali 2 to be far noisy than the Starlight 
  
 ofc if your looking to drive a pair of old school planar magnetics [Hifiman HE 4/400/5/500 or Audeze LCD 2/3 or Mr Speakers XXX Dog or ZMF XXX] than the Vali 2 has more power an handles those headphones better, giving them a better defined sound stage and fuller sound overall 
  
 with low impedance dynamics like AKG, Beyer [>250 models] Sennhesier [>300 models] Denons, Audio Technicas, Grados or any of Hifimans new planars like the HE X than the Starlight is by FAR quieter, with a very black background and a more 3D sound stage
  
 the Starlight is quiet an weak with "old school planars" an the Vali 2 is noisy and unfocused with "low impedance dynamics" to my ears


----------



## jlangholzj

I've not (yet) had a chance to listen to a Vali2 (due to lack of funds on my part) but there's some food for thought here.
  
 Since a bunch of you have a seeming hard-on for the starlight I decided to look it up.
  
 1) Its ugly. Even their aluminum "chassis" is just a couple plates on stand-offs. *shrug* I mean hey even ugly girls need loving too so if it still gets the job done then I'll not hold it against it. Just was my first impression is all...
  
 2) COMPLETELY different tube. Several of us have already pointed out that even within tubes you've got a *huge* range of variation. They *are* tubes after all. The ECC82/12AU7 has a significantly lower gain than the ECC88/6922 does. That in itself can cause more/less microphonics or more/less noise.
  
 Well okay, so you can run different tubes in both. What if I put the same tube in both? Same tube in different circuits are not created equal. Heck just recently I was flip-flopping phono tubes around in my system between channels because one chan was a slight bit brighter than the other. I was afraid after re-capping and re-resistoring the input stage that something was wrong....especially because the symptom didn't follow the tube. Nope, just random interaction between the same circuits (scold me if you want for not getting a matching pair....that's going to change here soon). Also with swapping tubes while it *shouldn't* matter too much keep in mind that if its burned in at one Q-point on one amp......that may not translate over to a great q-point on the other one.
  
 Moving beyond comparing to another amp or tube or proper cabling, are all of you that are experiencing noise sure its not in your source? Several of you have noted that it shows up in classical music during the quiet parts. I mean...that's getting pretty damn picky AND its a medium that's extremely hard to get right. Even the last round of the Led Zep remasters which were taken from reel-to-reel sources have noise in them when you listen to it that just was from the original recording techniques. Are you sure that one amplifier isn't just more revealing and is picking up more noise in the source?
  
 Is everyone letting their tubes warm up for a good 5-10 mins before using them? How many listening hours do you have on it (the tube)? That was already an issue of concern in the thread that's been addressed but very few that said "out of the box it sounds like blah blah blah" came back and gave any more input after letting the tubes burn in. Same goes for anyone that's said "the stock tube is absolute trash". C'mon guys, they're all in the same family. Each one can have little differences here and there but I'm going to be VERY IMPRESSED if you can magically make a previously trashy sounding amp a golden child by switching to a tube in the same family.....
  
 Lastly yeah i know it sounds like I'm stroking schiit's ego here and I'm not. It's very possible that there might be some noise but there's just so many variables pointing to many different sources of issues to definitively say...yes...this schiit is...well....schiity....and not in a good way. So far I've not seen a repeatable occurrence of "here's the problem". Additionally.....there is the whole perceived notion. I'm perfectly happy thrashing around my 911 but recently had someone comment that the ride was too rough....I mean...really? It's not a damn towncar...what did you expect?!


----------



## Makiah S

jlangholzj said:


> I've not (yet) had a chance to listen to a Vali2 (due to lack of funds on my part) but there's some food for thought here.
> 
> Since a bunch of you have a seeming hard-on for the starlight I decided to look it up.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The two amps are not created equal, the Starlight is a serious PITA amp to own. You manually adjust the bias every time you roll it, an you need to fine tune the Output Resistance to get an ideal sound from it 
  
 So with the Exact same tube in each amp, both warmed up for about 15mins an both sourced from the Same NFB10ES2 Fixed line out, running Kernal Streaming out of Windows 7 an Foo Bar [no eq] I'm finding it to be noisy, with classical for starters but also with Jazz. Anything with a quiet mix has more audible noise in it on the Vali 2 vs the Starlight 
  
 Now, you plug a Higher ohm headphone into the Vali 2 an there is little to no noise at all, an if you get above 600 ohms on the starlight... you may run out of headroom. But apples for Apples, same headphone, same source, same song, same tube, same amount of time burned in  there is a differance 
  
 now how does one get the improved or blacker background on the Starlight? You have to open it up an fiddle around with it's output jumper settings. You also need to make sure your tube is biased about every 2-3 days. If you do that the extra $20 you spend get's you imo a better sounding amp
  
 but guess what... does EVERY one want to spend more money and more time for better sound? Not always, an hence is the differance between the two amps. The Starlight requires you spend time with it, tuning it, experimenting with it to get the best sound. An if your willing to tolerate it's "ugly" chasis and play with it. You'll get a better quality of sound, though that's ONLY with Low Impedance Dynamic Headphones
  
 Where as the Vali 2... is SO MUCH simpler to own! LITERALLY PLUG in and enjoy. The most you might need to do is flip the gain switch, other wise your set! Did I think schiit make a "schiity" sounding amp? No, given the price an the amazing flexability an ease of ownership it sounds fantastic! Do I think you can get a better amp in the same price Category, yes, does that amp have the same level of flexability and simplicity... not really. So there's the differance, 
  
 Schiit has done an excellent job creating an eco system for them selvs! Kinda like Apple Products, if some one posts in the intro Boards that they've NEVER owned a headphone amp or dac before, an they are curious about tube amps... 9/10 I'm going to point to the Schiit Vali 2 Modi Stack. because for that consumer, she/he is going to have a great product that is simple to enjoy
  
 In terms of Sound an Build, despite it's open chasis I found the Starlight to be better, but that improvement in quality comes at the expense of simplicity and overall ease of owner ship.
  
  
  
 I an others have derailed this thread long enough, I've made a new thread to countinue this discussion 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/793686/the-new-generation-of-entry-level-hybrid-tubes


----------



## lvince95

> Originally Posted by *jlangholzj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 1) Its ugly. Even their aluminum "chassis" is just a couple plates on stand-offs. *shrug* I mean hey even ugly girls need loving too so if it still gets the job done then I'll not hold it against it. Just was my first impression is all...
> 
> *Lastly yeah i know it sounds like I'm stroking schiit's ego here and I'm not.*


 
 I think you are. Whether it's ugly or not, we're talking about performance here. He has both and has compared them, whereas you're just purely speculating.
  
 You should properly read up on the Asgard incident and maybe then your Schiit bias will be gone, but seeing as how biased you are it'll probably not go away. It can't be helped I guess.


----------



## Makiah S

lvince95 said:


> I think you are. Whether it's ugly or not, *we're talking about performance here*. *He has both and has compared them, whereas you're just purely speculating.*
> 
> You should properly read up on the Asgard incident and maybe then your Schiit bias will be gone, but seeing as how biased you are it'll probably not go away. It can't be helped I guess.


 
*mmhm, and again I've got a new thread for us to continue this discussion on *
* *It might be best for us to move so we have a more concise place to discuss this, as well as reference people back to.


----------



## jfoxvol

@jlangholzj it sounded like a solid cogent argument to me.  Experience with one specific situation does not mean someone cannot have knowledge about a topic.  I believe the impetus behind the statement was similar to a few of my previous.  Basically, if you don't like it, send it back.  I like mine.  There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, but derailing a thread I've already become tiresome of is just a waste.


----------



## jlangholzj

lvince95 said:


> I think you are. Whether it's ugly or not, we're talking about performance here. He has both and has compared them, whereas you're just purely speculating.
> 
> You should properly read up on the Asgard incident and maybe then your Schiit bias will be gone, but seeing as how biased you are it'll probably not go away. It can't be helped I guess.


 
  
 I'm familiar with the "asgard incident". Also I've no particular bias one way or another, my Fulla has a noisy pot on it for whatever reason but I don't adjust my volume at all so I just deal with it. My point was that up until post #772 not a one had said for conditions X,Y, and Z being equal these are the things that I'm observing. And while the two of us (me and Mshenay) might have differing opinions at times he's the ONLY one who when called to the carpet, put up and I'll honor that.
  
 We've had folks not warming their tubes up and folks doing silly things, which isn't bad in itself because holy hell we all make mistakes! My point (that may or may not have been glossed over) is  that I have issues with high-variable, low-data cutsets that present non-repeatable information. AKA, I was simply pointing out that there's LOTS of other things that could be the issue and maybe for some of these guys that have been having issues could do something different to remedy the situation. I'm not in the business of promoting schiit, I'll leave that to Jason. I'm sticking around because I'm going to plan on getting one here in the next year and am around for who's getting what for tubes so I buy only one or two (cause *******it I spent enough on a matched quad of 7355's for my other stuff).


----------



## HOWIE13

roamling said:


> I have the same issue, I can hear a hum when others cant. But interestingly you mentioned the Starlight. I had a Sunrise 2 but could hear a hum, so wondering if the Starlight has less hum?
> But the Vali might not be for me, after reading through this thread. But just in case somebody has the Vali 2 AND some of the Garage 1217 amps, how do they rank in regards to noise?


 
 Starlight, Horizon3, Ember and Polaris are in my system humless. However, you can still get other types of noises from tubes in any tube amp and Garage amps are no exception to this. That's the nature of tube amps.
 To be fair the hum I hear on Vali2 is usually not bothersome unless the music is very quiet so I still enjoy using Vali2. It's a good amp.
 It is also totally silent on low gain, which suffices for a lot of cans I use anyway.


----------



## Makiah S

jlangholzj said:


> We've had folks not warming their tubes up and folks doing silly things, which isn't bad in itself because holy hell we all make mistakes! My point (that may or may not have been glossed over) is  that I have issues with high-variable, low-data cutsets that present non-repeatable information. AKA, I was simply pointing out that there's LOTS of other things that could be the issue and maybe for some of these guys that have been having issues could do something different to remedy the situation. I'm not in the business of promoting schiit, I'll leave that to Jason. I'm sticking around because I'm going to plan on getting one here in the next year and am around for who's getting what for tubes so I buy only one or two (cause *******it I spent enough on a matched quad of 7355's for my other stuff).


 
 I'm actually getting an octal 9pin Socket Saver and a new Tube tommorow, I might try that one and see how it sounds with the Vali 2 before I ship it back monday
  
 I've getting 2 GE 6SN7 GTAs, in the Starlight I really enjoyed the sound stage of the GE 6SN7 GTB, my only issue with it was the edgy highs and the bloom in the bass, I've heard many times over the GTA variants have a tighter bass an smoother highs, without any loss in the sound stage


----------



## roamling

mshenay said:


> I have both with me, an I'm working furiosuly on a comparison of the two.
> 
> For starters, give then Price the Starlight an Vali are equally good amps. How ever the Vali 2 does better with High Impedance Low Efficiany Headphones, where as the Starlight does best with Low Impedance and/or high sensitivity headphones
> 
> ...


 
  
 wow, great feedback. Thanks!


----------



## jfoxvol

mshenay said:


> I'm actually getting an octal 9pin Socket Saver and a new Tube tommorow, I might try that one and see how it sounds with the Vali 2 before I ship it back monday
> 
> I've getting 2 GE 6SN7 GTAs, in the Starlight I really enjoyed the sound stage of the GE 6SN7 GTB, my only issue with it was the edgy highs and the bloom in the bass, I've heard many times over the GTA variants have a tighter bass an smoother highs, without any loss in the sound stage


 
 I'll have mine at the show in March.  I've got a nice NOS Jan Philips 6922 that sounds great.  I spec'd extra low noise and microphonics.  It works quite well.  It's no Ragnarok, but it's fun.  And it's cheap.


----------



## roamling

howie13 said:


> Starlight, Horizon3, Ember and Polaris are in my system humless. However, you can still get other types of noises from tubes in any tube amp and Garage amps are no exception to this. That's the nature of tube amps.
> To be fair the hum I hear on Vali2 is usually not bothersome unless the music is very quiet so I still enjoy using Vali2. It's a good amp.
> It is also totally silent on low gain, which suffices for a lot of cans I use anyway.


 
  
 I owned a Sunrise 2 for a year and it was fine with my Sennheiser HD650. Then some months ago I changed headphones to a Beyerdynamic T90 and I could hear hum all of a sudden, to such a level that the amp became an issue. So yes, I guess it seems there is some inherent issue with the tube design and hum but then this can be multiplied depending on what gear you are using. I listen to a lot of classical music and then i pick on hum in quiet passages. I eventually sold my Sunrise and the new owner has no issues at all.
  
 I think i might not be the perfect candidate for tube amps, the Vali2 seemed ticked a lot of boxes for me, the design and power... but i guess i stick with solid state at the moment


----------



## painted klown

jfoxvol said:


> I spent some time this weekend with Vali 2, HD650, Bifrost MB.  It sounds very good.  I'm using a 6CG7 tube versus the stock tube.  I did a whole lot of tube and headphone swapping so I don't have very detailed notes.  However, I can say that the HD650 had plenty of detail.  It's never been accused of being bright but it scales really well and this amp/dac combination work well together with the HD650s.  I also used an Ether C and Denon AHD7000.  The latter not as much.  That's mostly the headphone's fault.


 
 Thank you for the follow up and additional info. Nice to see the Bimby + Vali 2+ HD-650 make a great team. Been drooling over the Schiit multibits for a while now.
  
 Re: The Vali 2 and hum/noise.
  
 My Vali 2 does have a hum when you use low z 'phones and have the gain on high. For example my Grado SR80i will have a hum when on high gain mode. IMO, this hum sounds like an electrical hum of sorts. It does not change volume with the amp and disappears completely in low gain mode. Additionally, with my HD-650, I cannot hear the hum with either gain mode.
  
 The hum is hardly noticeable to me, and I actually didn't notice it at all until another forum member pointed it out and I went back to listen for it. Sure enough, it's there, but it's far from a deal breaker, and if it really annoys you, you can always use the low gain mode.
  
 Like some others here, I too feel there is a better bass presence and more dynamics when in high gain mode. Almost all of my listening is through my 650 though, so no hum at all when using them. YMMV...
  
 All of my listening has been exclusively with the stock tube as I have no others to roll at the moment. Sounds fine IMO, and I love the power this amp has on tap. I think Schiit created  a winner here folks. I was wondering if the hybrid design would give me enough "tube flavor" to be happy. I can say that it absolutely does. It definitely sounds different than my SS Emotiva DC-1's HP amp, but there's no distortion (even at high volume levels) like I had expected there to be. My expectations were exceeded, to be honest.
  
 I do really want to try some rolling, and will as soon as my budget allows. For now though, I am enjoying the schiit out of this amp!


----------



## jfoxvol

painted klown said:


> Thank you for the follow up and additional info. Nice to see the Bimby + Vali 2+ HD-650 make a great team. Been drooling over the Schiit multibits for a while now.
> 
> Re: The Vali 2 and hum/noise.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm still listening to that setup.  I've swapped back to the JAN Philips 6922.  I spec'd my tube to be low noise and microphonics.  With regards to the noise, that's why there's a gain switch.  I have some low z that are reasonably efficient that work well in both settings.  I agree that high gain has more authority to it but it is an evolution of an amp that was quite noise and this now has tremendously lower (and two gain modes plus other features).  The noise in the Vali 1 never bothered me a bit.  I still have it and still enjoy playing it.  The Vali 1 is like a lap dancer with a master's degree and the Vali 2 is more like a dirty librarian (I watch too much Top Gear).  Glad you're enjoying.  I'd highly highly recommend a Jan Philips 6922 (~40 bucks but worth it) or a 6CG7 (either 50 for NOS RCA or 20 for Repro from EH, the latter I have and love it).  Until then, just keep enjoying the stock tube.


----------



## OldRoadToad

I have the money but reading much of this thread has caused me to lose the fever. 
  
 I want VU meters on the front.  Functioning VU meters, that is.   That should do it for me.  A single tube is enough and the power output is adequate for any sane person that wants to keep hearing the world around them.  As for tube rolling?  I don't wanna roll schiit.  I listen to music, not equipment.  I look at the equipment while I am listening to it and I can tell ya that a pair of VU meters strategically placed beneath the priapic tower of that lone tube would make it sweet.
  
 I ask only that a pair of appropriately sized VU meters be placed on the front of the Vali 2.  This would necessitate a new name.  In keeping with the Schiit Theme it could be called the....*ToadStool*. 
  
 Not very Nordic I know but when you get right down to it, "stool" is just schiit with different letters.   One could just insert some runish looking graphics somewhere and by Grabthar's hammer there 'tis.
  
 Or not.  How about *Vali of thee Toad*?  No?  Ok.  Vali 2.1 or Vali 3.
  
 But I still think VU meters would make it so boss, so gear, so bitchin', so toes on the nose, so fab...  In closing I would like to point out that I am not just shooting the schiit here.  To paraphrase a line from a film that many of us saw more years ago than some might care to admit to, you want to give us all an eargasm, then build it  and yup, we will come. 
  
 Yes, I know.  I spelled it in the non-porn way but doubtless you get the tie-in.
  
 Damn but I am in a mood this dark and not so stormy night.  Besides, "Vali of thee Toad" sounds bitchin'.
  
 Thee Toad


----------



## jlangholzj

painted klown said:


> Thank you for the follow up and additional info. Nice to see the Bimby + Vali 2+ HD-650 make a great team. Been drooling over the Schiit multibits for a while now.
> 
> Re: The Vali 2 and hum/noise.
> 
> ...


 

 You can make sand sound like tubes, actually quite easily. The drive and authority is going to come from the output stage and I doubt I'll ever know the answer to this one but if they (schiit) are using a global NFB loop it stands to reason that's why you're loosing a bit of the punch and dynamics along with eliminating noise noise in low Z mode. It's kind of one of those "can't have your cake and eat it too" moments.

 As with most audio equipment the first few stages (tube) are going to dictate more of the tonal shaping than the output. Note i I said *more* not all....OTL tube is a whole nother bear in itself but you'll notice there's not a whole many of them around....for a reason...they (tube) have relatively horrible drive capability. That's why the hybrid design is so rad, I'm part-way through a hybrid design of my own with some mini novals that will be pretty cool to see how it turns out.


----------



## Makiah S

roamling said:


> I owned a Sunrise 2 for a year and it was fine with my Sennheiser HD650. Then some months ago I changed headphones to a Beyerdynamic T90 and I could hear hum all of a sudden, to such a level that the amp became an issue. So yes, I guess it seems there is some inherent issue with the tube design and hum but then this can be multiplied depending on what gear you are using. I listen to a lot of classical music and then i pick on hum in quiet passages. I eventually sold my Sunrise and the new owner has no issues at all.
> 
> I think i might not be the perfect candidate for tube amps, the Vali2 seemed ticked a lot of boxes for me, the design and power... but i guess i stick with solid state at the moment


 
 It's funny you mention the T90, most of my headphones have a very energetic top end, an those brighter headphones seem to just draw the noise into them
  
 I still find the Starlight to be very quite, even with my brighter headphones 
  
 but ofc it lacks the power of the Vali 2, an hoenstly with stuff like the HD 650 [Higher Z] the Z will just negate teh noise any how 
  
 going to the Vali 1, my DT 880 600 ohm was a DREAM on that amp!


----------



## Skarecrow77

Got a pair of NAD HP50s and a Schiit Modi 2 DAC for christmas... just in time for my 12 year old Perreaux SHX-1 to decide to develop a horrendous noise filtering issue three weeks later. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've had solid state for 12 years and liked it, but got the chance to listen to my NADs on a co-worker's Woo WA7 and it was... well it was a revelation. I've read reviews that say that the HP50s don't benefit much from amplification and those reviewers are dirty stinking liars. I got misty-eye'd there a few times with that WA7... The HP50s sung to me like never before. Anyway, I digress... suffice to say that my new amp has to have tubes.
  
 I was tossing the idea of a Valhalla 2, when I realized that my budget is essentially nil at the moment, then I found out about the Vali 2. It sounds like it's the perfect solution to my problems. Worst case scenario, I could always ship it back to schiit and step up to the asgard 2 or valhalla 2 (gonna be rough talking the wife into that though, lol).
  
 Does anybody have any experience with the the Vali 2 on the HP50s (or their sister cans, the PSB M4Us)? I'd love to know what you thought of the pairing.


----------



## bigro

I am Using the PSB M4U1 which is 32 ohms. I do not get a Hum. I also Tried it with the ATH m50x. No Hum either I the Vali 2 On High Gain because as some noted there seems to be a better low end punch. I use power conditioners and power strips with power filters and got rid of crap cables. I had terrible hum with previous systems until I ditched the crappy surge protectors and cheap cables. Point of the story, Audio hum is usually not caused by the amp, but said amp will accept any interference. either from the outlet or from nearby cables.


----------



## nordkapp

With an 
  
 Electro-Harmonix 6922.


----------



## Makiah S

bigro said:


> I am Using the PSB M4U1 which is 32 ohms. I do not get a Hum. I also Tried it with the ATH m50x. No Hum either I the Vali 2 On High Gain because as some noted there seems to be a better low end punch. I use power conditioners and power strips with power filters and got rid of crap cables. I had terrible hum with previous systems until I ditched the crappy surge protectors and cheap cables. Point of the story, Audio hum is usually not caused by the amp, but said amp will accept any interference. either from the outlet or from nearby cables.


 
 Hmm I also have a Furman Power Conditioner as well, but I'm still using some pretty low end cables. Still, if I have to purchase after market cables to get rid of the hum, I might as well take that extra investment an buy a better amp right? Either way, imo the Vali 2 is a great entry level Amp to drive High Impedance or Low Sensitivity headphones, and with that class of cans it's rather quiet 
  
 But I am hopeing to invest in a set of 3pin XLR to RCA interconnectors for my Dac, as SE outputs my dac could be quieter 
  
 I got my matched pair of GE 6SN7 GTA octals today an my Socket Saver so I'll fire up the Vali 2 again with the newer an hopefully cleaner tubes and see how it sounds 
  
 I also used Low Gain mode with my low gain headphones due to the noise,


----------



## masterwu

been listening to the Vali 2 on Modi Uber DAC - no noise or hum - headphones m50s, Ath-WS1100, and dt-880 pro 250O.  very quiet - stock tube, crappy cables and belkin power surge protector.


on low gain.


----------



## Makiah S

masterwu said:


> been listening to the Vali 2 on Modi Uber DAC - no noise or hum - headphones m50s, Ath-WS1100, and dt-880 pro 250O.  very quiet - stock tube, crappy cables and belkin power surge protector.
> 
> 
> on low gain.


 
 I should mention there is a "hiss" that I hear not so much a hum


----------



## Tuneslover

I currently have the Electro Harmonix 6922EH in my Vali 2 as well, which is being fed by the Bifrost 4490. A terrific sounding rig for my bed side table listening sanctuary. Really makes my HE500's sing, in fact the best bass I've heard out of them.


----------



## Makiah S

tuneslover said:


> I currently have the Electro Harmonix 6922EH in my Vali 2 as well, which is being fed by the Bifrost 4490. A terrific sounding rig for my bed side table listening sanctuary. *Really makes my HE500's sing*, in fact the best bass I've heard out of them.


 
 That's good to hear! I'm very impressed how well this little guy does with old skool Hifimans :3 my HE 4 included


----------



## SneakyDomo

tuneslover said:


> I currently have the Electro Harmonix 6922EH in my Vali 2 as well, which is being fed by the Bifrost 4490. A terrific sounding rig for my bed side table listening sanctuary. Really makes my HE500's sing, in fact the best bass I've heard out of them.


 

 I have to agree, I received ​a 6922EH and JJ EE88CC this week and the Electro Harmonix is head and shoulders above the JJ and stock 6BQ7 for the music I listen to.  Until the 6922EH I was worried I had pretty much thrown away $169 because the Vali 2 with stock tube while smoother than my Fiio E10k driving HE-400i's, it was a giant detail eraser with mediocre bass.  With the EH its still smooth but the details are more present and the bass is just perfect.


----------



## Makiah S

sneakydomo said:


> I have to agree, I received ​a 6922EH and JJ EE88CC this week and the Electro Harmonix is head and shoulders above the JJ and stock 6BQ7 for the music I listen to.  Until the 6922EH I was worried I had pretty much thrown away $169 because the Vali 2 with stock tube while smoother than my Fiio E10k driving HE-400i's,* it was a giant detail eraser with mediocre bass.  *With the EH its still smooth but the details are more present and the bass is just perfect.


 
 yeap, I might have to try the Electro Harmonix 6922
  
 but the JJ EC 88 is a 12v is it not? Either way, I'm enjoying the Octal 6sn7 GE GTA


----------



## Skarecrow77

bigro said:


> I am Using the PSB M4U1 which is 32 ohms. I do not get a Hum. I also Tried it with the ATH m50x. No Hum either I the Vali 2 On High Gain because as some noted there seems to be a better low end punch. I use power conditioners and power strips with power filters and got rid of crap cables. I had terrible hum with previous systems until I ditched the crappy surge protectors and cheap cables. Point of the story, Audio hum is usually not caused by the amp, but said amp will accept any interference. either from the outlet or from nearby cables.


 
  
 No Hum on the M4U1 even in high gain mode? Very promising. Is that with the stock tube? If not, what do you have in there?
  
 How do the M4U1 sound with the vali 2, is it a good paring?


----------



## nwavesailor

sneakydomo said:


> I have to agree, I received ​a 6922EH and JJ EE88CC this week and the Electro Harmonix is head and shoulders above the JJ and stock 6BQ7 for the music I listen to.  Until the 6922EH I was worried I had pretty much thrown away $169 because the Vali 2 with stock tube while smoother than my Fiio E10k driving HE-400i's, it was a giant detail eraser with mediocre bass.  With the EH its still smooth but the details are more present and the bass is just perfect.


 
 I have 25-30 used and NOS mostly 6DJ8, some 6922, and a few 7308. The Orange Globe, Holland production, 6DJ8 is really nice in the Vali 2 BUT............it pains me to say this........the current production EH 6922 are pretty sweet! Nice detail and highs as well as good bass. The regular EH 6922 sound (to me, YMMV) better than the EH 6922 GOLD.
  
 Side note to Mshenay:
  
 Thanks for talking me down off the ledge!
  
 I got the Apple conversion cables and, other than being a little fluky with some Apple dialog boxes, the 'line out' of the iPod is FAR superior to the headphone out! I can actually hear mo' betta sound out of the Vali 2 now than last weekend when the iPod alone sounded better.
  
 As long as the cables don't give me fits (and lose signal) this weekend in testing, I may actually end up keeping this Schiity little Vali 2 amp and see if I really use it with my hp. If so, I may snag the Ember ll............. if not I haven't spent more $$$ to have a piece of gear sit there unused. Time will tell.
  
 More tube rolling this weekend....................


----------



## rgmffn

nordkapp said:


> With an
> 
> Electro-Harmonix 6922.


 
  
  


tuneslover said:


> I currently have the *Electro Harmonix 6922EH* in my Vali 2 as well, which is being fed by the Bifrost 4490. A terrific sounding rig for my bed side table listening sanctuary. Really makes my HE500's sing, in fact *the best bass I've heard out of them.*


 
  
  


sneakydomo said:


> I have to agree, *I received ​a 6922EH and JJ EE88CC this week and the Electro Harmonix is head and shoulders above the JJ and stock 6BQ7* for the music I listen to.  Until the 6922EH I was worried I had pretty much thrown away $169 because the Vali 2 with stock tube while smoother than my Fiio E10k driving HE-400i's, it was a giant detail eraser with mediocre bass.  With the EH its still smooth but *the details are more present and the bass is just perfect. *


 
  
  


nwavesailor said:


> I have 25-30 used and NOS mostly 6DJ8, some 6922, and a few 7308. The Orange Globe, Holland production, 6DJ8 is really nice in the Vali 2 BUT............it pains me to say this........the *current production EH 6922 are pretty sweet!* Nice detail and highs as well as good bass. *The regular EH 6922 sound (to me, YMMV) better than the EH 6922 GOLD.*


 
  
 It's nice to finally hear some feedback concurring my earlier recommendation and praise for the EH 6922.  Thanks for sharing!
  
 I did feel like playing some recently, so I went back and tried the 6CG7 that I have again, __ it wasn't in there very long.


----------



## bigro

skarecrow77 said:


> No Hum on the M4U1 even in high gain mode? Very promising. Is that with the stock tube? If not, what do you have in there?
> 
> How do the M4U1 sound with the vali 2, is it a good paring?


 

 Yup Stock tube, However I have been monitoring the praises of the Electro Harmonix 6922EH so that May change very soon. Yes there is a Faint hiss if you turn the volume up with no music playing but I do not know an amp that does not do that, But No hum. Just about Every time I run into a Hum issue it was not the amp, crap power or interference was the cause.


----------



## masterwu

mshenay said:


> I should mention there is a "hiss" that I hear not so much a hum




No hiss either. 

Expecting other tubes to roll and I'll see about those but so far pretty quiet.


----------



## rudyae86

Wow, reading in this thread really makes me want to buy a Vali 2. It would be my first tube amp as well. Tempting

I'm running a Modi 2 Uber with a cayin c5 portable amp and either HD598, X2 or K7XX as my headphones. 

I really do wonder how different they will sound with the vali 2..


----------



## enoha

Hi,
  
 I'm very interested in the Vali 2 + Modi 2 Uber. I have a few questions before ordering. What's in the boxes? Only the devices? Then I need 2 short RCA cables + 1 USB cable. Is that correct?
  
 I guess there's a tube included with the Vali 2. Do you recommend to get a better tube?
  
 And last question (even if I've already made research) : Are those two doing well with a Sennheiser HD600/650?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## masterwu

enoha said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm very interested in the Vali 2 + Modi 2 Uber. I have a few questions before ordering. What's in the boxes? Only the devices? Then I need 2 short RCA cables + 1 USB cable. Is that correct?
> 
> ...


 
  
 there is a tube with the Vali 2 - stock tube sounds pretty good to me  - but i think people get the tube amp to experiment with other tubes i.e. tube rolling --  i have 3 tubes coming - this is my first hybrid/tube amp.  i guess that's the fun of it.. is the tube rolling and what kind of sound you might get with different tubes.
  
 in the box for the Vali 2 is a tube and wall wart  and of course the vali 2 and manual - no cables -
  
 Modi 2 uber is just the Modi 2 with a wall wart and manual no cables
  
 i don't own those headphones so i can't give u that answer - hope this helps


----------



## enoha

Thank you!! Yes, it helps.


----------



## RickB

The HD600 sounds terrific with the Vali 2. I had been thinking for a while to get an HD650, since I'm kind of sensitive to treble and the 650 is smoother. The Vali 2 made me change my mind. Very happy with the sound I'm getting now.


----------



## nordkapp

rudyae86 said:


> Wow, reading in this thread really makes me want to buy a Vali 2. It would be my first tube amp as well. Tempting
> 
> I'm running a Modi 2 Uber with a cayin c5 portable amp and either HD598, X2 or K7XX as my headphones.
> 
> I really do wonder how different they will sound with the vali 2..


For the $170 it's a no brainer. This thing is unreal.


----------



## nordkapp

rudyae86 said:


> Wow, reading in this thread really makes me want to buy a Vali 2. It would be my first tube amp as well. Tempting
> 
> I'm running a Modi 2 Uber with a cayin c5 portable amp and either HD598, X2 or K7XX as my headphones.
> 
> I really do wonder how different they will sound with the vali 2..


I owned the original Vali and I have to say given the 2's features and sound I dumped it immediately. No contest between the two imho.


----------



## rudyae86

nordkapp said:


> I owned the original Vali and I have to say given the 2's features and sound I dumped it immediately. No contest between the two imho.


 
 Dam I was hoping my set up would be enough lol
  
 My wallet does not thank you


----------



## Skarecrow77

rudyae86 said:


> Wow, reading in this thread really makes me want to buy a Vali 2. It would be my first tube amp as well. Tempting
> 
> I'm running a Modi 2 Uber with a cayin c5 portable amp and either HD598, X2 or K7XX as my headphones.
> 
> I really do wonder how different they will sound with the vali 2..


 
  
 I'm in the exact same boat. I've never had a tube amp, and it'll be a couple weeks before I can pull the trigger on the vali 2, but I've already got my eye on two tubes to immediately try with it. the Electro Harmonix 6922EH and the Matsu****a/National PCC88/7DJ8... 
  
 I had forgotten how bad this place was for my wallet.


----------



## lenroot77

skarecrow77 said:


> I'm in the exact same boat. I've never had a tube amp, and it'll be a couple weeks before I can pull the trigger on the vali 2, but I've already got my eye on two tubes to immediately try with it. the Electro Harmonix 6922EH and the Matsu****a/National PCC88/7DJ8...
> 
> I had forgotten how bad this place was for my wallet.




Just got the Vali 2 last week and it's my first "tube" amp and I gotta say it's fabulous. Really an excellent amp for the money. Couldn't be happier!


----------



## masterwu

i've got JJ-E88CC, Electro-Harmonix 6922 and Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 on the way --
  
 the stock tube is a sylvania


----------



## nordkapp

rudyae86 said:


> Dam I was hoping my set up would be enough lol
> 
> My wallet does not thank you


Tiime to sell something off.........


----------



## MadMertz

I have the Vali2/Modi2 Uber combo and have tried both the Electro Harmonix 6922EH and the Matsu****a/National PCC88/7DJ8. also a Philips JAN 6922 / 6DJ8 not to mention the stock tube. Currently going with the National but honestly I like them all just like the National a little bit more.


----------



## Tov1

I replaced the stock tube in my Vali 2 with a Genalex/Gold Lion 6922. Does anybody know how it compares to the EH6922?


----------



## Designer79

sneakydomo said:


> I have to agree, I received ​a 6922EH and JJ EE88CC this week and the Electro Harmonix is head and shoulders above the JJ and stock 6BQ7 for the music I listen to.  Until the 6922EH I was worried I had pretty much thrown away $169 because the Vali 2 with stock tube while smoother than my Fiio E10k driving HE-400i's, it was a giant detail eraser with mediocre bass.  With the EH its still smooth but the details are more present and the bass is just perfect.


 
  
 There is a thread for the Vali 2 tube rolling here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/793982/vali-2-tube-rolling
  
 Your impressions and comparison of these 2 tubes would be valuable information over there!


----------



## Designer79

masterwu said:


> i've got JJ-E88CC, Electro-Harmonix 6922 and Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 on the way --
> 
> the stock tube is a sylvania


 

 Would you mind posting your impressions of the JJ and the two Electro-Harmonix over in the Vali 2 tube rolling thread? http://www.head-fi.org/t/793982/vali-2-tube-rolling I'm sure people here would be very interested how they compare to the stock tube.
  
 I got a "Made in the USA" Sylvania as stock tube as well, replaced it two days ago with a Tesla E88CC. These 6922 / E88CC tubes are a major step up in sound quality over the 6DJ8 (stock) ones imho.


----------



## masterwu

designer79 said:


> Would you mind posting your impressions of the JJ and the two Electro-Harmonix over in the Vali 2 tube rolling thread? http://www.head-fi.org/t/793982/vali-2-tube-rolling I'm sure people here would be very interested how they compare to the stock tube.
> 
> 
> I got a "Made in the USA" Sylvania as stock tube as well, replaced it two days ago with a Tesla E88CC. These 6922 / E88CC tubes are a major step up in sound quality over the 6DJ8 (stock) ones imho.




Sure I will try to


----------



## Tuneslover

masterwu said:


> i've got JJ-E88CC, Electro-Harmonix 6922 and Electro-Harmonix 6CG7 on the way --
> 
> the stock tube is a sylvania




I have the same tubes except for the last EH you listed. They all sound really good. My JJ does have some hum when the Vali2 is switched to hi gain though. All other tubes are quiet.


----------



## Tuneslover

Initially when I got my Vali2 I fed it from an X5ii line out and I was aware of hearing slight, not huge differences between tubes. Incidentally every tube I have was run in for 25 straight hours before I used them for serious listening.

Then I introduced a Bifrost 4490 into the chain, switching to the coaxial output of the X5ii. First off, the sound quality improvement was pretty substantial. Second, I'm not hearing that big of a difference between the stock Sylvania, JJE88CC or Electro-Harmonix 6922 tubes, subtle at most. For me the biggest change was introducing a much better DAC into the setup.


----------



## masterwu

tuneslover said:


> Initially when I got my Vali2 I fed it from an X5ii line out and I was aware of hearing slight, not huge differences between tubes. Incidentally every tube I have was run in for 25 straight hours before I used them for serious listening.
> 
> Then I introduced a Bifrost 4490 into the chain, switching to the coaxial output of the X5ii. First off, the sound quality improvement was pretty substantial. Second, I'm not hearing that big of a difference between the stock Sylvania, JJE88CC or Electro-Harmonix 6922 tubes, subtle at most. For me the biggest change was introducing a much better DAC into the setup.


 
  
 i'm running a modi 2 uber with the Vali 2 - i have the first magni and modi also - i haven't done an A/B comparison - but i'm not sure i hear a difference between the vali 2 or the magni - which may or may not be "bad"  -- just my ears - i may have burned the stock tube in about 8-9 hours perhaps.  or maybe it's my headphones.
  
 i'm not running any lossless files just mp3s ranging from 128kbps - 320kbps - of course source material is important.
  
 was just "tube-curious" - i dont' expect to go beyond the cost of a Vali 2 - and some tubes.
  
 just a neat "toy"


----------



## enoha

Anyone could tell me more about the combo Vali 2 + Modi 2 running with a HD600 or HD650? I still have to decide what I choose between those two Sennheiser.
  
 Which one would you recommend the most?


----------



## masterwu

enoha said:


> Anyone could tell me more about the combo Vali 2 + Modi 2 running with a HD600 or HD650? I still have to decide what I choose between those two Sennheiser.
> 
> Which one would you recommend the most?


 
 have you at least auditioned the headphones?


----------



## rudyae86

nordkapp said:


> Tiime to sell something off.........


 

 You got that right lol


----------



## Jane Levi

enoha said:


> Anyone could tell me more about the combo Vali 2 + Modi 2 running with a HD600 or HD650? I still have to decide what I choose between those two Sennheiser.
> 
> Which one would you recommend the most?


 
 I own both of them (i also have modi 2 uber but i've sold it after I have Bifrost Multibit) . HD600 and HD650's sound sonic are similar, both of them have warm, smoothness laid back sound. The HD600 is more neutral and flat, while the HD650 is a bit warmer, more bass, smoothness laid back and soundstage. The HD650 is better for my taste.
  
 I have listened Vali 2 (pair with Modi 2 uber) which borrow from my friend about a week. It especially drives my HD600 and HD650 better than my Magni2 Uber (Not much but still better). It adds a bit more warm natural sound from tube, clarity, a bit bass impact and soundstage.
  
 If you really want to drive the HD600 and HD650 up to their potential, my advice is try them with OTL tube amp. With OTL tube amp those Sens cans will truly SHINE. My Valhalla 2 is out perform the Vali 2 when listening with HD650, HD650, HD800 and also with my Beyer T1. And if you have Bifrost Multibit to pair with Valhalla 2 for those Sens cans, you'll never look back to Magni2, Vali2, Asgard2 or even the Lyr2 (yeah for my taste).


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone have any direct comparisons between the Vali 2 and Modi 2 and uber? Most comparisons on the web are between the Modi 2 uber and original Vali. In reading these comparisons it's sounds as there isn't a big difference.


----------



## bigro

lenroot77 said:


> Anyone have any direct comparisons between the Vali 2 and Modi 2 and uber? Most comparisons on the web are between the Modi 2 uber and original Vali. In reading these comparisons it's sounds as there isn't a big difference.


 
 Are You asking if any has Compared the  Vali 2 / Modi 2 Uber Vs. the Original Vali / Modi 2 Uber


----------



## lenroot77

bigro said:


> Are You asking if any has Compared the  Vali 2 / Modi 2 Uber Vs. the Original Vali / Magni 2 Uber




Just Vali 2 v's Magni 2 uber


----------



## RickB

lenroot77 said:


> Just Vali 2 v's Modi 2 uber


 

 The Vali 2 is an amp. The Modi 2 Uber is a DAC.


----------



## lenroot77

rickb said:


> The Vali 2 is an amp. The Modi 2 Uber is a DAC.




Yes yes... My bad... I see what I did there.


----------



## Capt369

lenroot77 said:


> Yes yes... My bad... I see what I did there.


 

 So now you've got your schiit together.


----------



## Letmebefrank

lenroot77 said:


> Yes yes... My bad... I see what I did there.




Once I get my Magni 2 back from schiit (again. This time it was damaged when they shipped it back to me) I'll be able to compare the two of them and let you know. It's not an Uber but the sound signature should be the same.


----------



## lenroot77

letmebefrank said:


> Once I get my Magni 2 back from schiit (again. This time it was damaged when they shipped it back to me) I'll be able to compare the two of them and let you know. It's not an Uber but the sound signature should be the same.




I have a Vali 2 and magni 2 uber coming in the mail (part of a deal) just trying to figure out if I should keep both. I'm not opposed to keeping both with a sys... But that becomes a mess of cables along with the Modi 2 uber and I like my little space "neat". Guess I'll just have to figure it out later this week when it arrives.


----------



## bigro

I have the Vali 2 and the Magni 2 Uber. The Magni 2 U is a Solid State amp that is very neutral a very clean sound. There is a little warmth as expected with a tube amp . The Thing is tubes can change the sound of the amp so keep that in mind. I have not tried to drive high Impedance headphones so no input there. I would not say one is better than the other it depends on your preference. If you Like Clean and Analytical Go with the Magni 2 U. If you like a little tube warmth well the Vali 2. 
  
 A note on the Magni 2 and the Magni 2 Uber. The Uber is more powerful and has a different/upgraded gain stage so I would expect there to be some difference in the way they sound.


----------



## Makiah S

I'm finding a lot of Success with inexpensive Octals, in particular the GE 6SN7 GTA, I'm liking it the most so far, even more than my Telefunken


----------



## AviP

Sorry for the noob question, is the vali 2 an OTL amp?


----------



## RickB

avip said:


> Sorry for the noob question, is the vali 2 an OTL amp?


 

 No, it's hybrid with solid state output.


----------



## AviP

rickb said:


> No, it's hybrid with solid state output.



Thanks.
Would this amp be a good match for beyerdynamic dt770 pro 250Ohms?


----------



## RickB

avip said:


> Thanks.
> Would this amp be a good match for beyerdynamic dt770 pro 250Ohms?


 
 I've never used those phones, but it makes my DT990 Pro 250Ohm sound very good.


----------



## AviP

rickb said:


> I've never used those phones, but it makes my DT990 Pro 250Ohm sound very good.



Thanks!


----------



## Tuneslover

The Vali2 is my first tube (hybrid) amp. I also have a Magni 2U. I wasn't sure how I expected a tube amp to sound but I do really like and prefer the Vali's warm sound signature and I'm quite pleased that there is a good level of clarity and detail too. Really in my opinion I find that both of these amps sound more similar than different. Both amps sound very good, especially paired with decent DACS. In that regard the Bifrost 4490 is for sure helping with Vali sound at my bed side setup but the Magni 2U and Modi sound just as satisfying on my iMac.


----------



## Designer79

avip said:


> Thanks.
> Would this amp be a good match for beyerdynamic dt770 pro 250Ohms?


 

 The Vali 2 pairs very well with my Beyerdynamic T90 250Ohms as well. Being a headphone designed for studio / monitoring use, I'd expect the DT770 to have a very neutral, uncolored sound signature? If so, you'll have a lot of fun with the tube rolling, enjoying different sound characteristics out of different tubes.


----------



## nordkapp

avip said:


> Thanks.
> Would this amp be a good match for beyerdynamic dt770 pro 250Ohms?


Up to this point I have run my vali 2 with my Beyer T1.2s to excellent effect. I hope to try it soon with my new DT1770s. It really shines with my T1.2s. Amazing little $170 wonder.


----------



## cherrypepsi

Does anyone pair the Vali 2 with the K701? Is it a good match?


----------



## sheldaze

cherrypepsi said:


> Does anyone pair the Vali 2 with the K701? Is it a good match?


 
 I'll second the K7XX match is good (see post #15).
 For me, it's been a few months since I heard the K702 or Q701, both similar to what you own. At least it should be well matched per the impedance to the Vali 2.


----------



## lenroot77

cherrypepsi said:


> Does anyone pair the Vali 2 with the K701? Is it a good match?




I enjoy my Q701's on my Vali 2. Warms them up just right.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

tuneslover said:


> The Vali2 is my first tube (hybrid) amp. I also have a Magni 2U. I wasn't sure how I expected a tube amp to sound but I do really like and prefer the Vali's warm sound signature and I'm quite pleased that there is a good level of clarity and detail too. Really in my opinion I find that both of these amps sound more similar than different. Both amps sound very good, especially paired with decent DACS. In that regard the Bifrost 4490 is for sure helping with Vali sound at my bed side setup but the Magni 2U and Modi sound just as satisfying on my iMac.


 
 Which headphones are you using, and is there a headphone you prefer out of a specific amp? I'm currently considering one of these, along with another amp in the price range, for an office setup.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

sheldaze said:


> I'll second the K7XX match is good (see post #15).
> For me, it's been a few months since I heard the K702 or Q701, both similar to what you own. At least it should be well matched per the impedance to the Vali 2.


 
 I see that you own/have owned the Asgard 2 and Meier Corda Rock. How would you compare the sound of the K7XX, or other headphones in your stable, out of the Vali 2, to your other amps? Would you recommend the Vali 2 over the two solid states? Thanks!


----------



## sheldaze

liu junyuan said:


> I see that you own/have owned the Asgard 2 and Meier Corda Rock. How would you compare the sound of the K7XX, or other headphones in your stable, out of the Vali 2, to your other amps? Would you recommend the Vali 2 over the two solid states? Thanks!


 
 My ADHD tendencies are having trouble answering your question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I got the Asgard 2 recently because no one could answer that very question - how does it compare against competent amplifiers such as the Meier Audio Corda Rock. And to be truthful, it is quite dependent on the headphone. I just sold my m9XX (excellent amplifier and DAC) and TH-X00 (paired very well with the m9XX and Corda Rock - but to my ears, did not pair well with the Asgard 2 or Vali 2) to subsidize my listening experiment. So TH-X00 for me was one point of delta between the Asgard 2 and Corda Rock. The 4490 board just arrived today. I'll be moving from Grace Design 4490 to Schiit 4490.
  
 My listening experiment will be using Bifrost 4490 for source, feeding Asgard 2, Vali 2, and Corda Rock for amplifiers, and playing through an assortment of headphones (Grado SR60i, AKG K7XX, HiFiMan HE-400i, Sennheiser HD650, Sennheiser HD800, HiFiMan HE-1000).
  
 TL;DR - If asked for quick summary so far, any of the three amplifiers with any of the first 4 headphones sounds fine. It gets much more tricky when moving to the TOTL headphones. To my ears, Vali 2 with default tube didn't cut it for the HD800. But I already rolled 2 tubes and liked one of them w/ HD800 - and plan more rolling a different brand to confirm. Asgard 2 is the only amplifier with enough juice to feed the HE1K. So there's another delta between the Asgard 2 and Corda Rock in how they play through the HE1K.
  
 TL;DR - take 2. It is an experiment I plan to observe over the next few weeks, and then bring to a meet at the end of February 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 TL;DR - take 3. Vali 2 sounds great with any of the 4 lower-tier headphones. I prefer the tube sound versus the Asgard 2. However the default tube does not mate well with the HD800, and the Asgard 2 is absolutely required to drive the HE1K.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

sheldaze said:


> My ADHD tendencies are having trouble answering your question
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Very helpful. And I know it's a tough question. Your observation regarding the pairing between the Vali 2 and the Fostex is quite relevant, since that is one headphone I am looking to drive. Why didn't you like it? Interesting that you didn't like the Asgard 2 and Fostex pairing; I would think it would be a nice match. Perhaps it's too warm? But isn't the HEK also slightly warm? The Meier looks like a really nice amp, too, and it makes sense both why it would pair well with the Fostex and not so well with the HEK. 
  
 I look forward to your impressions should you come up with more in the coming weeks.


----------



## sheldaze

liu junyuan said:


> Very helpful. And I know it's a tough question. Your observation regarding the pairing between the Vali 2 and the Fostex is quite relevant, since that is one headphone I am looking to drive. Why didn't you like it? Interesting that you didn't like the Asgard 2 and Fostex pairing; I would think it would be a nice match. Perhaps it's too warm? But isn't the HEK also slightly warm? The Meier looks like a really nice amp, too, and it makes sense both why it would pair well with the Fostex and not so well with the HEK.
> 
> I look forward to your impressions should you come up with more in the coming weeks.


 
 I'm not a bass-head, and to be truthful I don't think there's anything wrong with the bass on the Fostex. But somehow the sound went a little over for me with the Asgard 2. I had a similar problem with a Denon AH-D2000 and a Schiit Fulla a while ago. It could just be me, but something goes a little awry to my ears with the Denon/Fostex and the standard (Fulla - Asgard 2) Schiit amplifiers, in the bass region. The Vali 2 was a different issue - it is a tube amplifier. It's not a gooey sound, but it still adds something - I prefer the original Fostex sound, nothing added.
  
 Not sure the HE1K is warm - to me it can get thin pretty quickly, especially if there's not a lot of juice to drive them. A supporting example, I had a Mjolnir a while back. I would generally consider it to be a thin, almost treble emphasis amplifier. But it sounded okay (not excellent, okay) on the HE1K and I think in large part due to the power reserves. I could not stand the amplifier though for very long on a warm headphone, the HD650. It just seemed shouty, while those headphones are supposed to be a little relaxed.
  
 I'll definitely post, particularly as it relates to Vali 2 comparisons.


----------



## Tuneslover

liu junyuan said:


> Which headphones are you using, and is there a headphone you prefer out of a specific amp? I'm currently considering one of these, along with another amp in the price range, for an office setup.


 
 With the Bifrost 4490 and Vali 2 I alternate between HD650 and HE500.  I don't have a preferred headphone as both phones sound very good.
  
 With the Modi and Magni 2U I preferred the HD650 over the HE500 but since getting the HD598SE (Black Friday) I just keep the HD598SE's there.


----------



## Capt369

sheldaze said:


> I'm not a bass-head, and to be truthful I don't think there's anything wrong with the bass on the Fostex. But somehow the sound went a little over for me with the Asgard 2. I had a similar problem with a Denon AH-D2000 and a Schiit Fulla a while ago. It could just be me, but something goes a little awry to my ears with the Denon/Fostex and the standard (Fulla - Asgard 2) Schiit amplifiers, in the bass region. The Vali 2 was a different issue - it is a tube amplifier. It's not a gooey sound, but it still adds something - I prefer the original Fostex sound, nothing added.
> 
> Not sure the HE1K is warm - to me it can get thin pretty quickly, especially if there's not a lot of juice to drive them. A supporting example, I had a Mjolnir a while back. I would generally consider it to be a thin, almost treble emphasis amplifier. But it sounded okay (not excellent, okay) on the HE1K and I think in large part due to the power reserves. I could not stand the amplifier though for very long on a warm headphone, the HD650. It just seemed shouty, while those headphones are supposed to be a little relaxed.
> 
> I'll definitely post, particularly as it relates to Vali 2 comparisons.


 

 I like a balanced full range sound and, to me, that was achieved with the TH X00 and the Asgard 2 after a 100+ hour burn in with the XOO. Quite happy with this combo. The A2 is the only amp I have so TIFW.


----------



## sheldaze

capt369 said:


> I like a balanced full range sound and, to me, that was achieved with the TH X00 and the Asgard 2 after a 100+ hour burn in with the XOO. Quite happy with this combo. The A2 is the only amp I have so TIFW.


 
 I am very, very, very sensitive to bass. To put it in perspective, once I found out about servo-driven subwoofers and their low distortion characteristics, I never went back to another brand. Last night, I was listening to HD800 (I believe the bass is considered tight on it) and Valhalla 2 - as the tubes were warming up, I was on the edge of nausea due to the bass. Once warmed up, it was glorious.
  
 I love the Asgard 2 and the Vali 2. But when these did not work, for my ears, on the TH-X00, that headphone had to go. There is nothing wrong with those amplifiers - kudos to Jason and the excellent job he's done with both! Just my ears couldn't take something - so I kept the other headphones which sound perfectly fine out of both amplifiers. I personally blame the headphone and not the amp, especially when better headphones bloom nicely with the Asgard 2.


----------



## bigro

The people that peer pressured me into trying the Electro-Harmonix 6922EH with the Vali 2 Were Spot on. It is a really really good combo. Using the PSB M4U1.


----------



## bboris77

bigro said:


> The people that peer pressured me into trying the Electro-Harmonix 6922EH with the Vali 2 Were Spot on. It is a really really good combo. Using the PSB M4U1.


 

 I am receiving my EH 6922 tomorrow alongside the NOS Tesla E88CC. I am really looking forward to testing and comparing these two to the stock tube. I am very satisfied with the stock tube, so I am very intrigued about the potential improvement that everyone seems to be experiencing. I will be posting my comments this weekend.

 Also wanted to mention that I tested the Vali 2 with the Beyerdynamic DT-150 and it sounds absolutely amazing. This headphone is a true dark horse and it pairs really well with the Vali 2. It is full-bodied, rich and meaty with wonderful mids and treble and strong but not overpowering bass. Various instruments and voices sound very natural and organic using this combo, arguably more so than with my AKG Q701. While the AKG has an advantage when it comes to the soundstage, it is surprisingly a very marginal difference as the DT-150 has a very wide soundstage for a closed headphone.


----------



## HOWIE13

bboris77 said:


> I am receiving my EH 6922 tomorrow alongside the NOS Tesla E88CC. I am really looking forward to testing and comparing these two to the stock tube. I am very satisfied with the stock tube, so I am very intrigued about the potential improvement that everyone seems to be experiencing. I will be posting my comments this weekend.
> 
> Also wanted to mention that I tested the Vali 2 with the Beyerdynamic DT-150 and it sounds absolutely amazing. This headphone is a true dark horse and it pairs really well with the Vali 2. It is full-bodied, rich and meaty with wonderful mids and treble and strong but not overpowering bass. Various instruments and voices sound very natural and organic using this combo, arguably more so than with my AKG Q701. While the AKG has an advantage when it comes to the soundstage, it is surprisingly a very marginal difference as the DT-150 has a very wide soundstage for a closed headphone.


 
 Two very contrasting and, in their own ways, good tubes. Will look forward to your comparison.
 I usually give NOS tubes at least 3 hours of 'warm up' before serious assessment.
  
 I can well believe what you say about the DT150 because the even darker horse, the 400 ohm DT100 also sounds great with the Vali2


----------



## Letmebefrank

Received my 6922EH today... WOW this is the tube sound I've been looking for! The bass extension is just amazing! Unbelievably smooth highs. Mids are present and clear as well. Sound stage is also very good. Much wider than the other two tubes I have. Its like a night and day difference between this tube and the 6CG7EH.


----------



## jfoxvol

letmebefrank said:


> Received my 6922EH today... WOW this is the tube sound I've been looking for! The bass extension is just amazing! Unbelievably smooth highs. Mids are present and clear as well. Sound stage is also very good. Much wider than the other two tubes I have. Its like a night and day difference between this tube and the 6CG7EH.


 
 Good to know.  Give it a good 10-150 hours break in before final decision.  It'll change the most as you play for the first 8-10 hours but will steadily but slowly settle in after about 100 of play time.  Generally, the sound quality will improve over time.  So, don't worry.


----------



## nwavesailor

jfoxvol said:


> Good to know.  Give it a good 10-150 hours break in before final decision.  It'll change the most as you play for the first 8-10 hours but will steadily but slowly settle in after about 100 of play time.  Generally, the sound quality will improve over time.  So, don't worry.


 

 Gotta say these are quite a nice tube for very little $$$..........do I have tubes I like more, yep..............but if I had a tight budget (and didn't already own a lot of these tubes) this EH 6922 would work for me at less than $20!


----------



## mysticstryk

Gonna be picking this up with a 4490 Bifrost soon I think. I've never had a tube amp before. When burning I'm the tube, do I need to be playing music or just leave the amp on for a few days?


----------



## nordkapp

mysticstryk said:


> Gonna be picking this up with a 4490 Bifrost soon I think. I've never had a tube amp before. When burning I'm the tube, do I need to be playing music or just leave the amp on for a few days?


 
 Play music and turn the volume knob up 2/3rds to 1/2 output. 12 hours or so will get you past that critical point. Don't overdue your burn in. Remember, tubes are always either getting better or worse sounding.


----------



## mysticstryk

nordkapp said:


> Play music and turn the volume knob up 2/3rds to 1/2 output. 12 hours or so will get you past that critical point. Don't overdue your burn in. Remember, tubes are always either getting better or worse sounding.




I guess it doesn't matter what headphones I use for this, so I guess I'll use my iems and stick them in my desk drawer while playing so I don't have music blasting in my living room all day.


----------



## nordkapp

mysticstryk said:


> I guess it doesn't matter what headphones I use for this, so I guess I'll use my iems and stick them in my desk drawer while playing so I don't have music blasting in my living room all day.


 
 Try to use the highest impedance phones you own.


----------



## nordkapp

Does anyone here have any experience with the Genalex Gold Lion 6922? It's a bit pricey for a $170 amp. I have read/heard differing opinions.


----------



## mysticstryk

nordkapp said:


> Try to use the highest impedance phones you own.




That would be my hd650. Any particular reason why?


----------



## nordkapp

mysticstryk said:


> That would be my hd650. Any particular reason why?


Yes. Stress the tubes. Typically if a tube is going to fail, it will do so fairly early on.


----------



## mysticstryk

nordkapp said:


> Yes. Stress the tubes. Typically if a tube is going to fail, it will do so fairly early on.




Alright, thanks.


----------



## Currawong

nordkapp said:


> mysticstryk said:
> 
> 
> > I guess it doesn't matter what headphones I use for this, so I guess I'll use my iems and stick them in my desk drawer while playing so I don't have music blasting in my living room all day.
> ...


 
  
 It's a hybrid amp, so this will have zero effect.


----------



## mysticstryk

currawong said:


> It's a hybrid amp, so this will have zero effect.




So using my quieter iems is okay?


----------



## Currawong

mysticstryk said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > It's a hybrid amp, so this will have zero effect.
> ...


 

 In my experience, just leaving it switched on should be fine.


----------



## mysticstryk

currawong said:


> In my experience, just leaving it switched on should be fine.




So no headphones needed? Thats great, then I won't have to leave my computer on all day and night either.


----------



## HOWIE13

nordkapp said:


> Does anyone here have any experience with the Genalex Gold Lion 6922? It's a bit pricey for a $170 amp. I have read/heard differing opinions.


 
 My Genalex Gold Lion, bought about 2 years ago, looks pretty much identical to my EH 6922 gold pins and sounds the same.


----------



## nordkapp

howie13 said:


> My Genalex Gold Lion, bought about 2 years ago, looks pretty much identical to my EH 6922 gold pins and sounds the same.


 
 Thanks, you just saved me $60.


----------



## q2klepto

bboris77 said:


> I received mine today in Canada!
> 
> ....
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do you remember what shipping/duty was when you imported?


----------



## bboris77

q2klepto said:


> Do you remember what shipping/duty was when you imported?


 

 Sure, I paid for Fedex International Shipping which was $35 USD ($50CDN) but it arrived within 2 days. Import fees/taxes as well as clearance fees were another $40 CDN. In total, it was about $90 CDN. In total, I paid about $325 CDN for the Vali 2 including an extra tube. Without it, it would have been $310. Keep in mind, our exchange rate is slightly worse now.


----------



## Tuneslover

q2klepto said:


> Do you remember what shipping/duty was when you imported?



My Vali 2 plus 1 additional stock tube cost me $345 Canadian ALL IN.


----------



## Tov1

I live near the border next to WashingtonState and I just cross over to pick it up. No import duty/tax/clearance although that can be a hit or miss depending on how busy Customs Officers are at the crossing. Better to declare everything than having your toy confiscated.


----------



## nwavesailor

tuneslover said:


> My Vali 2 plus 1 additional stock tube cost me $345 Canadian ALL IN.


 

 Holy Moly...........I'm used to the US / CA dollar being more or less on par with each other. The strong US dollar and import duties are brutal for Canadian (and I imagine other destination) buyers!


----------



## JennifersYummie

*Death to the Evil LED!*

I have just recently entered the realm of tubes. Sorry, _Tubes_, it's more reverant that way. For the life of me I can't tell the difference between _Tube_ sound and SS sound. Not yet anyway. Not being one to slowly buy $ _Tubes_ and work my way up to $$$$$ _Tubes_, I'm jumping into the deep end of the pool (nose plugged) and ordered this little guy: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/

It's got great, nay, outstanding reviews. It's more than the Vali 2 (sorry, _Vali 2_) itself. So if I'm ever going to hear a difference between _Tubes_ and/or SS this should be the one. And last but not least in has the word "fun" in it.

Now *if* it turns out my ears (outfitted with HE400i's (sigh, _HE400i's_)) and using FLAC files on a Fiio X1 still can't tell the difference it will be sad. But at least I can still enjoy the _Tube's_ light.

Well sort of.

They give off a beautiful comforting glow. Both ears *and* eyes are getting something out of this. But the eyes less so because as I gaze into the _Tube_ glowing with an inner light I'm blinded with the Lighthouse LED announcing the power is flowing. Worse yet the light escapes through the vent holes - there's just no winning.

So, can I just snip the equivalent of the Evil Lighthouse LED's power-supplying artery? I think it will be much improved. Ohh ohh ohh, one more thing: if they're (I mean you, Schiit) going to bung an LED in there why not make it an orange one? Synergy that way, what?


----------



## RickB

jennifersyummie said:


> *Death to the Evil LED!*
> 
> I have just recently entered the realm of tubes. Sorry, _Tubes_, it's more reverant that way. For the life of me I can't tell the difference between _Tube_ sound and SS sound. Not yet anyway. Not being one to slowly buy $ _Tubes_ and work my way up to $$$$$ _Tubes_, I'm jumping into the deep end of the pool (nose plugged) and ordered this little guy: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
> 
> ...


 
  
 Instead of doing a permanent hardware mod, search for "LightDims" on Amazon. They're $6 and are stick-on covers for LEDs to reduce the brightness.


----------



## nwavesailor

jennifersyummie said:


> *Death to the Evil LED!*
> 
> I have just recently entered the realm of tubes. Sorry, _Tubes_, it's more reverant that way. For the life of me I can't tell the difference between _Tube_ sound and SS sound. Not yet anyway. Not being one to slowly buy $ _Tubes_ and work my way up to $$$$$ _Tubes_, I'm jumping into the deep end of the pool (nose plugged) and ordered this little guy: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
> 
> ...


 

 Man............taking about going *ALL IN *on your first big $$$ tube...........I think ya did it!!!
  
 At least with Kevin Deal you likely have a real Tele, not some relabeled POS tube.
  
 If you can solder and want another LED color, that's an option or just snip it. You could also add a resistor in series on the positive leg of the LED to pad down the brightness. It would likely void your warranty but if your buying a single tube at the same cost as the V 2, perhaps for you it's ..........."Warranty, WARRANTY........we don't need no stinkin Warranty!"


----------



## Tuneslover

nwavesailor said:


> Holy Moly...........I'm used to the US / CA dollar being more or less on par with each other. The strong US dollar and import duties are brutal for Canadian (and I imagine other destination) buyers!



No Schiit.


----------



## nwavesailor

tuneslover said:


> No Schiit.


 

 No that's a LOT of Schitt!
  
 Heck, the V 2 is a relative steal in the US and still a pretty good value to our neighbors up North............


----------



## dndliohm

So this has a wall wart?   But a "unique" one?
  
 If they made it slightly bigger and put everything inside it'd be better,  not that it's super important.  I know it's probably to match the Modi  profile.


----------



## Defiant00

dndliohm said:


> So this has a wall wart?   But a "unique" one?
> 
> If they made it slightly bigger and put everything inside it'd be better,  not that it's super important.  I know it's probably to match the Modi  profile.




And then yeah, it'd need a larger, more expensive case, and the whole thing would probably cost at least 50% more.


----------



## dndliohm

defiant00 said:


> And then yeah, it'd need a larger, more expensive case, and the whole thing would probably cost at least 50% more.


 

 Like a $250 mini-Valhalla with 1-2 tubes  would be sick.  But a small  rollable tube amp by Schiit?   Vali 2 is awesome regardless.


----------



## bixby

mshenay said:


> I'm finding a lot of Success with inexpensive Octals, in particular the GE 6SN7 GTA, I'm liking it the most so far, even more than my Telefunken


 
 how are you exactly adapting the 9 pin socket to 8 pin 6sn7 tubes?


----------



## Skarecrow77

Just placed an order for my Vali 2 and a Philips PCC88/7DJ8. I've heard lots of good things about the Philips PCC88 in the Vali 2. 
  
 Out with the old (12 year old solid state with a busted noise filter) and in with the new!
  
 I'll report back the results with with my NAD HP50s and my wife's Beyer DT880s once the combo is broken in.


----------



## nwavesailor

bixby said:


> how are you exactly adapting the 9 pin socket to 8 pin 6sn7 tubes?


 

 With the Vali 2, using a 9 pin socket saver clears the chassis lid then a 9 pin (6922 etc.) to 8 pin octal (6SN7) adapter (actually they call it a 6SN7 to 6922) and you're in biz! If you only want to use a single adapter, you could go 'full monty', remove the chassis lid and just go from the stock 9 pin (6922 and similar pin out) to the 6SN7 octal socket using a single adapter. Garage 1217 makes a nice one as well as lots of options on E-Bay. Another option is punching a larger hole in the chassis lid using a hole punch.
  
 The 6SN7 draws .6 amp current and that is right at the max according to Nick at Schitt.


----------



## HOWIE13

bixby said:


> how are you exactly adapting the 9 pin socket to 8 pin 6sn7 tubes?


 
 see  #668 p45 of this thread for the answer to your question.


----------



## bixby

nwavesailor said:


> With the Vali 2, using a 9 pin socket saver clears the chassis lid then a 9 pin (6922 etc.) to 8 pin octal (6SN7) adapter (actually they call it a 6SN7 to 6922) and you're in biz! If you only want to use a single adapter, you could go 'full monty', remove the chassis lid and just go from the stock 9 pin (6922 and similar pin out) to the 6SN7 octal socket using a single adapter. Garage 1217 makes a nice one as well as lots of options on E-Bay. Another option is punching a larger hole in the chassis lid using a hole punch.
> 
> The 6SN7 draws .6 amp current and that is right at the max according to Nick at Schitt.


 
 thanks I did not know you could do that.  What do these parts cost?  Any chance of mucking anything up electrically with this setup?
  
 I have a dozen good 6sn7s I might be able to try.


----------



## Currawong

bixby said:


> mshenay said:
> 
> 
> > I'm finding a lot of Success with inexpensive Octals, in particular the GE 6SN7 GTA, I'm liking it the most so far, even more than my Telefunken
> ...


 
  
  


bixby said:


> What do these parts cost?  Any chance of mucking anything up electrically with this setup?
> 
> I have a dozen good 6sn7s I might be able to try.


 
  
 Not much. It's just a straight-through wired socket converter for 6CG7/6FQ7 to 6SN7 like the Stacker used to use if you ever encountered one.


----------



## bixby

howie13 said:


> see  #668 p45 of this thread for the answer to your question.


 

 thank you Howie


----------



## HOWIE13

bixby said:


> thank you Howie


 
 You're most welcome.
 Good luck, I've had no problems using all manner of Octals in Vali2 with great success, soundwise.


----------



## nwavesailor

howie13 said:


> You're most welcome.
> Good luck, I've had no problems using all manner of Octals in Vali2 with great success, soundwise.


 

 SWEET!!! That's good to hear Howie 13! I was a bit concerned about running right at the power supply limit of 600 mA using the 6SN7's.
  
 I will be rolling RCA,  Ken Rad, Tung Sol, GE, Raytheon and a few other 6SN7's as soon as my adapter arrive.
  
 Then a pair of 6J5G's....could be interesting.


----------



## HOWIE13

nwavesailor said:


> SWEET!!! That's good to hear Howie 13! I was a bit concerned about running right at the power supply limit of 600 mA using the 6SN7's.
> 
> I will be rolling RCA,  Ken Rad, Tung Sol, GE, Raytheon and a few other 6SN7's as soon as my adapter arrive.
> 
> Then a pair of 6J5G's....could be interesting.


 
 Once I started rolling Octals I realised how fine the Vali2 can sound.
 It was good with 9 pins but achieves a different level with Octals.
 I hope you have the same experience.


----------



## volly

howie13 said:


> Once I started rolling Octals I realised how fine the Vali2 can sound.
> It was good with 9 pins but achieves a different level with Octals.
> I hope you have the same experience.


 
 Damn Howie, you got any picks of your Vali 2 with these Octals!
  
 You got me even further down the rabbit hole... :O


----------



## HOWIE13

volly said:


> Damn Howie, you got any picks of your Vali 2 with these Octals!
> 
> You got me even further down the rabbit hole... :O


 
 The key is to take your time descending into the depths of ecstasy. That way you can appreciate the improvements and your tastes will likely be different from mine, anyway.
 The Octal makers you mention all made good tubes-I would only add one other, the Sylvania 'Bad Boy'.
 There's loads of info on the Project Ember Tube Rolling Thread where we have been living with these same experiences for several months now. 
 Just be careful that the total heater current doesn't exceed 600mA. for Vali2. Standard Octals are generally at or below this level.


----------



## bixby

Folks that want to learn more about the 6sn7 octals and one mans opionion of sound characteristic might visit my comparison articles on several:
  
http://digitalaudiodirections.blogspot.com/2012/03/tube-rolling-getting-closer-to-sound.html
  
http://digitalaudiodirections.blogspot.com/2012/06/6sn7-tube-comparison-part-1.html
  
http://digitalaudiodirections.blogspot.com/2012/06/6sn7-tube-comparison-part-2.html
  
 Obviously different equipment and one opinion, but might be helpful overall in narrowing down what to try.
  
 also I do have some used vintage 6sn7s that I can sell, all have decent life left and would sell between $10-$15 so a low cost way to try some different flavors.
  
 I'll put a list together over the next day or two.
  
 PM me for a list.


----------



## mysticstryk

Just got my Vali 2.  Listening to my hd650 through it right now, will move onto my 400i shortly.


----------



## NoOneLt

Hi, just got my Vali 2, will need some time to play with to get some impressions.
  
 But first thing i noticed that at lowest volume setting there is big imbalance between L/R, at bit higher levels it disappears. Is it "normal" or i should contact distributor?
  
 And another thing, on the included tube i hardly see any markering written in yellow paints, just some beginnings like "PHI....." and "made......"
  
 BR.


----------



## Defiant00

noonelt said:


> Hi, just got my Vali 2, will need some time to play with to get some impressions.
> 
> But first thing i noticed that at lowest volume setting there is big imbalance between L/R, at bit higher levels it disappears. Is it "normal" or i should contact distributor?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yup, that's entirely normal with small analog volume controls like the one in the Vali 2.


----------



## bigro

Yes. A Vali 2 With a LISST.
  
  
 No I did not buy a Pair. rmoody allowed me to borrow them from his Mjolnir 2.  I was Super Curious. How do they Sound you ask?
  
 When Jason Says this on the Vali 2 FAQ Page
  
*   *   "Hey, can you use LISST in this?
       Sure you can, but why? Magni 2 Uber is a better, more powerful, and less expensive choice for a solid-state amp."
  
 He Means It. If you really Want a Solid State amp go with the Magni 2 U. Compared to the Electro-HArmonix 6922EH There was no Added Noise (Using the PSB M4U1), the Lisst Ran very cool but the Sound from the Vali seemed to lose some of the Dynamics. To My Normal ears and not to fancy Cans. The low end seemed to lose a some impact and Some of the Details from things like cymbals seemed to lose their "sparkle". It lasted about an Hour in the Vali 2 Before the Electro- Harmonix Tube found its way back in. I hope I scratched any ones itch who was curious.


----------



## c61746961

Appreciated, thanks.


----------



## HOWIE13

volly said:


> Damn Howie, you got any picks of your Vali 2 with these Octals!
> 
> You got me even further down the rabbit hole... :O


 
 See #668 p45 of this thread for pictures.


----------



## YtseJamer

mysticstryk said:


> Just got my Vali 2.  Listening to my hd650 through it right now, will move onto my 400i shortly.


 
  
 Congratulations.
  
 The Vali 2 is a good match with the HD650.


----------



## cherrypepsi

bigro said:


> I have both, The Valhalla 2 has a wider wider sound stage which is pretty noticeable when using speakers. And I find the valhalla 2 it to have better detail and layering. I don't want to comment on the mid's and highs etc because tubes can change that. The Vali 2 was not meant as a Valhalla replacement and it is not. But it sure as hell gets close. The Vali 2 is no slouch. I really enjoy the Vali 2. I mean a lot. I lent it to rmoody who has an Asgard 2 in his main setup with some shiny new Ether C's and he did not want to give the Vali 2 back. I think that speaks volumes.
> 
> The one tube thing, be careful. its like a gateway drug. Its only one tube to roll now.  the next thing you know you have 8 different ones on your list to try.


 
  
 So even you use pre-amp outputs of both amps, there are still noticeable differences?  I am using bimby that connects directly to power monitors right now. I am planning to get a pair of headphones and an amp. If I use Vali 2 as an headphone amp / pre-amp for speakers, will it make my speakers setup sound stage narrower and mask some detail? Just curious.


----------



## pieman3141

So, I received the Vali 2 yesterday, and it worked wonderfully. Smoothed out a lot of the harshness in songs that needed it, but didn't really touch the songs that didn't need smoothening out. After turning it off, I tried to turn it on again today. No luck. The tube stopped warming up, but the front LED still powered on. No audio was coming through. I checked all the connections and checked my DAC's headphone-out as well. Everything else was working. Did I somehow burn out the tube? I noticed that the tube wasn't really secure in its socket yesterday, no matter how much I tried to secure it. Is this another possibility as to what's wrong? I don't know a whole lot about tube amps in general, so I thought that it might've been just a thing with tube amps in general.

Edit: I think it was the seating. I pressed down harder just now and the tube lit up.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

I've found that some tubes don't seat too easily with the Vali 2, whereas others click in with a satisfying "chunk".


----------



## pieman3141

Yeah, I've never owned a tube amp before, so I had no idea how much pressure I needed to get the tube in. Turns out, the Sylvania 6BZ7 needs quite a bit.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

The Vali 2 is also my first tube amp, and at first I was babying the tubes. I'm still careful with them, but I'm not as scared to handle them anymore.
  
 I also got a socket saver from Tube Monger, which seats very nicely into the original socket and makes changing tubes much, much easier.


----------



## HOWIE13

merrick said:


> The Vali 2 is also my first tube amp, and at first I was babying the tubes. I'm still careful with them, but I'm not as scared to handle them anymore.
> 
> I also got a socket saver from Tube Monger, which seats very nicely into the original socket and makes changing tubes much, much easier.


 
 I was told that the reason the Russian and Chinese military preferred tubes in their equipment is because they are strong enough to withstand a nuclear bomb!


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Well, that settles it, I'm building my next nuclear shelter out of vacuum tubes!


----------



## mysticstryk

ytsejamer said:


> Congratulations.
> 
> The Vali 2 is a good match with the HD650.


 
  
 HD650 pairs very well with my new Vali 2.  Probably better than my Magni 2 Uber did, though I no longer have that amp to do a direct A/B test.  I'm still deciding on if my 400i pairs as well as it did with my Magni.


----------



## HOWIE13

merrick said:


> Well, that settles it, I'm building my next nuclear shelter out of vacuum tubes!


 
 LOL!


----------



## Capt369

howie13 said:


> LOL!


 

 +1 LOL


----------



## bigro

howie13 said:


> I was told that the reason the Russian and Chinese military preferred tubes in their equipment is because they are strong enough to withstand a nuclear bomb!


 

 The world will be in complete Chaos. Governments will fall but who cares. My Valhalla will still work.


----------



## AviP

howie13 said:


> I was told that the reason the Russian and Chinese military preferred tubes in their equipment is because they are strong enough to withstand a nuclear bomb!


 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse#Vacuum_tube_versus_solid_state_electronics
 Soviet Cold War–era military aircraft often had avionics based on vacuum tubes due to limited solid-state capabilities and a belief that the vacuum-tube gear would be more likely to survive


----------



## HOWIE13

The greatest irony is that on some boxes of Russian made tubes, in small print amongst all the Russian letters, it says _'Made in USSR_'.
 I was told that's because during the Cold War the West was buying tubes from the Russians for their own military equipment.


----------



## bigro

cherrypepsi said:


> So even you use pre-amp outputs of both amps, there are still noticeable differences?  I am using bimby that connects directly to power monitors right now. I am planning to get a pair of headphones and an amp. If I use Vali 2 as an headphone amp / pre-amp for speakers, will it make my speakers setup sound stage narrower and mask some detail? Just curious.


 
 Hmm I have not exactly compared the Bifrost with or with out the use of a pre amp. I use it  Directly to an Emotiva Amplfier when I am listening to talk shows or watching movies I Bypass the Valhalla unless I am listening to music. So I cannot Give you a direct comparison right now. In a Few Days I probably can so long as work and life does not ruin anything. The Amplifier should not mask detail and I did not find that to be the case with the Vali 2 or the Valhalla. The topology of the Valhalla and the Vali 2 Is different and some people where asking for a comparison. I find the Vali 2 to be every bit as enjoyable as the Valhalla. Also tubes make a difference I am not using the Stock tubes in the Valhalla and at that time I had the stock tube in the Vali 2.


----------



## AviP

bigro said:


> Hmm I have not exactly compared the Bifrost with or with out the use of a pre amp. I use it  Directly to an Emotiva Amplfier when I am listening to talk shows or watching movies I Bypass the Valhalla unless I am listening to music. So I cannot Give you a direct comparison right now. In a Few Days I probably can so long as work and life does not ruin anything. The Amplifier should not mask detail and I did not find that to be the case with the Vali 2 or the Valhalla. The topology of the Valhalla and the Vali 2 Is different and some people where asking for a comparison. I find the Vali 2 to be every bit as enjoyable as the Valhalla. Also tubes make a difference I am not using the Stock tubes in the Valhalla and at that time I had the stock tube in the Vali 2.



Wow!
You have a lot of Schiit


----------



## Baldr

Please pardon this shameless deviation from topic for a moment:
  
 The tube electronics will survive the EMP, but of course, not a hit by the nuclear bomb blast.


----------



## bigro

avip said:


> Wow!
> You have a lot of Schiit


 

 Yeah. For years many many years I have lived in the realm of second hand gear trying to get good sound on a budget. I started with an original Modi that blew everything I had out of the water.. I look at schiit products before I consider anything else at this point because the Quality to price ratio is second to none and many times a new Schiit product which is probably better quality than many of the second hand gear i come across is similar price. Fan boy? if you say so. I like their products, philosophy and service. It is the closest thing to a local store you can get for being hidden away Cali. I do Like some other companies, Emotiva seems to be a good one to deal with and as of late Andrew Jones Joining elac seems to really bring to light how good some "budget" speakers can be. I am that guy that is loyal to companies that I like and being able to have dialogue with the people designing the gear is a plus.


----------



## bigro

baldr said:


> Please pardon this shameless deviation from topic for a moment:
> 
> The tube electronics will survive the EMP, but of course, not a hit by the nuclear bomb blast.


 

 I was thinking the EMP that would be a result of the Nuclear Bomb..We need Faraday cages for our Multibit Dacs now..


----------



## vcmusik

Thank you, Bigro for posting your results of using that Lisst tube. I'm saving up for a Vali 2, but I also want a solid state option, so my original thought was to get the Vali 2 and a LISST tube so I could switch at will. I guess it would be better doing a triple Schiit stack to get the best of both worlds, huh?


----------



## Skarecrow77

Vali 2 _finally_ here. Stock tube burning in now. gonna try and give it at least an hour (I know 10+ is more appropriate, but I doubt I can wait that long). Impressions later tonight. I did put the headphones on long enough to try high gain mode on my NAD HP50s (since most people seem to like hi gain better, even with low impedance / high sensitivity cans), not a hint of hiss or hum with the stock tube.
  
 Got a NOS "Philips" (Really an Ei) PCC88 waiting in the wings once I've got a good handle on what the stock tube sounds like.


----------



## Skarecrow77

Comparison is vs my old Perreaux SHX-1. 12 years on it and I know it pretty well.

 Source is Modi 2.
 Cans are NAD VISO HP50s 
 Vali 2 is on low gain. Pot is at about 2 o'clock.
 Stock tube has 2 hours on it. I know that's not a fair deal but... eh.. I'm underwhelmed.
  
 Bass is like, ghosty. It's there, it's present, but it has no slam. no presence. no force.
  
 Treble is a bit sharp for my tastes. It's cutting through the music.
  
 Midrange is overemphasized, but not very sweet. A couple songs where the guitars should be tickling me... they just aren't. 
  
 Separation is good at least. 
  
 Soundstage is ok, not great.

 Overall, the toe-tapping, warm-hug, sound I was looking for isn't there.

 I know I should give the stock tube more time, but I've got the Philips PCC88 sitting right here looking at me. I'll give it a chance.


 edit:
  
 45 minutes on the Philips PCC88, and it's a pretty big difference. Biggest change is that _instantly _the harshness of the stock tube is gone.

 Sharp Treble is reined in, without much, if any, loss of detail. Maybe it's my imagination, but I think there's some sparkle in there now where there was harshness before. Still not perfect, but much improved.

 Midrange is sweeter for sure. It's still not quite what I was looking for, but way better than stock. It seems more controlled and less "bloaty" (which isn't something I normally think of as characteristic of midrange). I already notice a bit of a difference even from when I first started listening, so maybe it's going to get even better. Both Female and Male vocals are more pleasing than before. 

 Separation and Soundstage... wow. just wow. There are instruments fully out of my head now. This is as good as I've ever heard the Soundstage on these cans, and I've listened to them on a WA-7. This is so trippy. I could get used to this.

 The Bass is, well, it's still less than what I know these cans can do, but it's getting better. It's certainly more controlled than the stock tube, but not much more presence/slam. Have to see what it sounds like at around the 40 hour range or so.


 I know I should give the stock tube its fair chance, with a long burn-in and all, but it's going to be damn hard for me to convince myself to pry the PCC88 out to do so.

 Last quick edit before bed: 
 I have indeed caught myself toe-tapping and head bobbing several times now with the PCC88.
 Bass is fleshing out a bit. Mid-bass is superb, really natural and present. Bass Guitars sound so so good. The Vali2/PCC88/HP50 combo rips through classic Rock. Eagles, Floyd, Who, Aerosmith, AC/DC, etc sound like I'm stage with the band.


----------



## bigro

vcmusik said:


> Thank you, Bigro for posting your results of using that Lisst tube. I'm saving up for a Vali 2, but I also want a solid state option, so my original thought was to get the Vali 2 and a LISST tube so I could switch at will. I guess it would be better doing a triple Schiit stack to get the best of both worlds, huh?


 

 I used a SYS in reverse and switched between a Magni2 U and the Original Vali. Worked great.


----------



## NoOneLt

Does every Vali do pretty loud "pop" when it warms up after power on?


----------



## bboris77

noonelt said:


> Does every Vali do pretty loud "pop" when it warms up after power on?


 
 Yes, it's perfectly normal.


----------



## nwavesailor

noonelt said:


> Does every Vali do pretty loud "pop" when it warms up after power on?


 

 Is this 'pop' through your headphones or audible in the room from the amp itself?


----------



## NoOneLt

Pop in headphone, and also some from the amp itself.


----------



## HOWIE13

noonelt said:


> Pop in headphone, and also some from the amp itself.


 
 I get the same noise-not every time though.
  
 My Garage amps make a similar sound- I assume it's normal and due to a safety or warm up circuit switch.


----------



## jaywillin

noonelt said:


> Pop in headphone, and also some from the amp itself.


 
  
  


howie13 said:


> I get the same noise-not every time though.
> 
> My Garage amps make a similar sound- I assume it's* normal and due to a safety or warm up circuit switch.*


 
 it is


----------



## nwavesailor

howie13 said:


> I get the same noise-not every time though.
> 
> My Garage amps make a similar sound- I assume it's normal and due to a safety or warm up circuit switch.


 

 I own 2 other pieces of audio gear with a timing circuit that has a delay for 30-45 seconds to let the tube stabilize. This is more of a very low level 'ping' sound when a relay opens. Is this a relay you are hearing?


----------



## HOWIE13

nwavesailor said:


> I own 2 other pieces of audio gear with a timing circuit that has a delay for 30-45 seconds to let the tube stabilize. This is more of a very low level 'ping' sound when a relay opens. Is this a relay you are hearing?


 
 I think so.
 It's interesting that Ember takes about 10-15 seconds longer than Horizon and Starlight to 'ping' and that probably represents the extra time it takes for Ember to auto bias the tube.


----------



## nwavesailor

howie13 said:


> I think so.
> It's interesting that Ember takes about 10-15 seconds longer than Horizon and Starlight to 'ping' and that probably represents the extra time it takes for Ember to auto bias the tube.


 

 Thanks, Howie.
 I figured it was a relay opening.


----------



## Tuneslover

Now I'm certainly not a tube amplifier expert or tube rolling expert but I must say that the stock Sylvania tube is a pretty good sounding tube. Shortly after receiving my V2 and reading about the enthusiastic remarks about the JJ and EH tubes I dashed out and purchased them. Initial impressions were good but a bit muddy sounding (especially the EH) but terrific warm bass. Something sounded just a bit off as I rolled between the JJ and EH so I decided to roll the stock tube back in and I was rewarded with a very nice 3 dimensional sound with terrific instrument separation. The bass was tight and deep. Definitely not as warm sounding as the other 2 tubes but the Sylvania was much more balanced sounding and to me a personally engaging and satisfying sound. I don't understand how others have considered it as boring sounding, quite the opposite to my aging (dare I say it, experienced) ears. Good choice Schiit!


----------



## HOWIE13

tuneslover said:


> Now I'm certainly not a tube amplifier expert or tube rolling expert but I must say that the stock Sylvania tube is a pretty good sounding tube. Shortly after receiving my V2 and reading about the enthusiastic remarks about the JJ and EH tubes I dashed out and purchased them. Initial impressions were good but a bit muddy sounding (especially the EH) but terrific warm bass. Something sounded just a bit off as I rolled between the JJ and EH so I decided to roll the stock tube back in and I was rewarded with a very nice 3 dimensional sound with terrific instrument separation. The bass was tight and deep. Definitely not as warm sounding as the other 2 tubes but the Sylvania was much more balanced sounding and to me a personally engaging and satisfying sound. I don't understand how others have considered it as boring sounding, quite the opposite to my aging (dare I say it, experienced) ears. Good choice Schiit!


 
 Mine is made in Italy and that's all it says. It's quite good.
 I was initially surprised that Schiit was putting different stock tubes into the Vali2 but it has certainly stimulated tube rolling discussion and that's a good thing.


----------



## Skarecrow77

My stock tube says:
  
 Sylvania jh
 Made in USA   ABL
  
 It also has the Sylvania "shield with an S and a lightning bolt" logo on it.
  
 I thought it sounded pretty bad actually, worse than my cans straight out of my iphone, certainly worse than other amps.
  
 Seems like there might be a lot of variation in the stock-supplied tubes.


----------



## Designer79

skarecrow77 said:


> My stock tube says:
> 
> Sylvania jh
> Made in USA   ABL
> ...


 

 +1
  
 I got the same stock tube. It was rather dissappointing, to say the least ...


----------



## Tuneslover

skarecrow77 said:


> My stock tube says:
> 
> Sylvania jh
> Made in USA   ABL
> ...




My stock tube has Sylvania 6BQ7A, Made in U.S.A. and no logo on it.

Incidentally, I burned in each of my tubes for a straight 25 hours of music playing before rolling them in for regular listening enjoyment. I estimate that I have at least 50 total hours on each tube by now.


----------



## enoha

Just got my Modi 2 Uber and my Vali 2 and burning right now the stock tube with my HD600.
  
 I have a (maybe stupid) question. When turning on my setup which one of the DAC or the amp should I turn on first? Maybe it doesn't matter at all...
  
 Second question: I used to have a Aune T1 and the light in the tube became white 15-20 seconds after turning the device on. Here with Vali 2 the light remains orange. Is it the same with yours? Thanks for the help again!


----------



## Tuneslover

enoha said:


> Just got my Modi 2 Uber and my Vali 2 and burning right now the stock tube with my HD600.
> 
> I have a (maybe stupid) question. When turning on my setup which one of the DAC or the amp should I turn on first? Maybe it doesn't matter at all...
> 
> Second question: I used to have a Aune T1 and the light in the tube became white 15-20 seconds after turning the device on. Here with Vali 2 the light remains orange. Is it the same with yours? Thanks for the help again!


 
 After I bought my DACs and AMPs I contacted Schiit support about whether I should turn off the DAC (as I would with the amp) or if it's ok to leave it on.  They said it won't hurt the DAC if it's just left on all the time.


----------



## FoxyGrandpa

Can anyone compare this to the little dot 1+ or mk2


----------



## tdonnellyem

Second question: I used to have a Aune T1 and the light in the tube became white 15-20 seconds after turning the device on. Here with Vali 2 the light remains orange.

Every tube I've ever seen glows orange. I have seen some companies put LED's under a tube and you can see the LED through it. If your tube is glowing white, as in white hot, then you could have an issue with the amp or tube


----------



## HOWIE13

foxygrandpa said:


> Can anyone compare this to the little dot 1+ or mk2


 
 I find both can be very good, the sound depending on the tubes chosen but they have different adjustments and tweaks. The LD has a totally quiet background with no hum but does require two tubes to change each time you roll. It's also heavy and takes up more space. The tweaks involve removing the bottom plate so are not so readily accessible, but there are more of them.
 The LD is great value but if you have a problem in the UK it has to go back to China.
 Both are great introductions to the world of tube amps.


----------



## FoxyGrandpa

howie13 said:


> I find both can be very good, the sound depending on the tubes chosen but they have different adjustments and tweaks. The LD has a totally quiet background with no hum but does require two tubes to change each time you roll. It's also heavy and takes up more space. The tweaks involve removing the bottom plate so are not so readily accessible, but there are more of them.
> The LD is great value but if you have a problem in the UK it has to go back to China.
> Both are great introductions to the world of tube amps.


What would you recommend ? Both little dots are $140 . I have Phillips fidelio x2s. I listen to hip hop and alternative. What would recommend for me?


----------



## HOWIE13

foxygrandpa said:


> What would you recommend ? Both little dots are $140 . I have Phillips fidelio x2s. I listen to hip hop and alternative. What would recommend for me?


 
 Unfortunately I mainly listen to Classical and Jazz!
 I do have the X2. It works well with both amps, though on high gain with the Vali2, with some tubes I hear that hum.
 I am uncomfortable giving you a firm recommendation because we don't share the same musical tastes. 
 You could try and audition. I think Schiit offer a 14 day return policy.
 Maybe someone else could chip in here to help.


----------



## Skarecrow77

Day 5 and about 35 hours of listening now on the Vali 2 / Philips (EI) PCC88 combo.
  
 Short version: This is the best my music has ever sounded, by far. Not even close.

 Long version: I have a nagging suspicion at the back of my mind that this isn't quite kosher... because it makes even bad recordings sound awesome. The soundstage! The separation! The sheer musicality! I don't know, I feel like it's working some sort of black distortion magic on my flacs..
  
 Know what? I don't care. If this is wrong, I don't want to be right.
  
 How can this thing only cost $170?!
  
 I know my HP50 cans, I know what they "normally" sound like. I know my Modi 2, I know what it sounds like. I know my music, some of it I've been listening to for 3 decades now... and this is just constant "am I dreaming? am I high? am I in heaven?" wonderment... except every time I put my headphones on, it's all STILL THERE.
  
 Maybe it's just some really stupid blind luck synergy between the modi 2, vali 2, philips PCC88, and the NAD HP50s. It isn't quite this good when I listen using my PB M4U1s or my wife's Beyer DT880s. It isn't nearly this good with the stock tube. It isn't nearly this good with my old solid state amp. I got to thinking that I may be the only person on earth with this -particular- combo of dac, amp, tube, and cans... and that's kinda sad. I really hope somebody else out there is only missing one or two of these pieces and can replicate this setup to see if they hear what I hear after reading this.

 Anyway, in hour 8 of today's listening session and my toes are tapping and head is bobbing like I was a teenager again.


----------



## Designer79

Yeah, there is something special about those Philips PCC88's. They are totally lush in tonality, super mellow, but not overly colouring the sound. Sounds like a contradiction, but it's not, and it's really hard to describe. There's a fierce battle going on here right now between Tesla and Philips for personal no.1 tube in the Vali 2. I do believe I lose minor detailing and a bit of soundstage with the Philips, while instrument seperation is great. The Teslas are a bit more sparkly, and super reveiling down to fine instrumental timbre, with wider sound stage, theoretically a perfect match with the Beyer's. But there is something utterly addictive to the sound of the Philips. If the "higher grade" E88CC's or E188CC's keep that Philips lushness while offering even better detailing and soundstage, now that would be 100% musical bliss ...


----------



## a44100Hz

Are these Ei tubes new or NOS? Could someone PM me a link to vendors so I can check them out? Thanks.


----------



## a44100Hz

designer79 said:


> Yeah, there is something special about those Philips PCC88's. They are totally lush in tonality, super mellow, but not overly colouring the sound. Sounds like a contradiction, but it's not, and it's really hard to describe. There's a fierce battle going on here right now between Tesla and Philips for personal no.1 tube in the Vali 2. I do believe I lose minor detailing and a bit of soundstage with the Philips, while instrument seperation is great. The Teslas are a bit more sparkly, and super reveiling down to fine instrumental timbre, with wider sound stage, theoretically a perfect match with the Beyer's. But there is something utterly addictive to the sound of the Philips. If the "higher grade" E88CC's or E188CC's keep that Philips lushness while offering even better detailing and soundstage, now that would be 100% musical bliss ...


 

 Which Tesla do you have? I'm using a new JJ 6922 Gold Pin that may be my favorite current production tube [that I've tried] with the Vali 2. When I want something to sound "tight" I reach for that JJ tube. For more mellow I like the Bugle Boys.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

skarecrow77 said:


> Maybe it's just some really stupid blind luck synergy between the modi 2, vali 2, philips PCC88, and the NAD HP50s. It isn't quite this good when I listen using my PB M4U1s or my wife's Beyer DT880s. It isn't nearly this good with the stock tube. It isn't nearly this good with my old solid state amp.


 
  
 You hit the nail on the head right there. Synergy is the name of the game. It's about finding the right pieces and putting them all together. That's why, when auditioning new gear, it's important to use as much of your existing gear as you can, so you can know if the synergy is right.
  
 Really glad to hear you're enjoying your music so much. That's what good gear should do, regardless of price: Let us enjoy the music.


----------



## Skarecrow77

a44100hz said:


> Are these Ei tubes new or NOS? Could someone PM me a link to vendors so I can check them out? Thanks.


 
  
 I got mine from upscale audio. price is a bit high ($45 plus shipping for the "platinum" grade, the only grade I'd consider for the vali 2 due to needing tightly matched triodes) compared to the rest of the web, but I'll pay a bit more for knowing exactly what I'm getting and generally not having to deal with ebay.
  
 There are, of course a few up on the bay, and there are a few other shops on the web that seem to be sold out of them. 

 I believe that for a little bit more, you can pick up the "miniwatt" version made in Heerlen, Netherlands, which I assume sounds at least as good, but can't confirm as I don't have one.


----------



## rgmffn

designer79 said:


> Yeah, there is something special about those Philips PCC88's. They are totally lush in tonality, super mellow, but not overly colouring the sound. Sounds like a contradiction, but it's not, and it's really hard to describe. There's a fierce battle going on here right now between Tesla and Philips for personal no.1 tube in the Vali 2. I do believe I lose minor detailing and a bit of soundstage with the Philips, while instrument seperation is great. The Teslas are a bit more sparkly, and super reveiling down to fine instrumental timbre, with wider sound stage, theoretically a perfect match with the Beyer's. But there is something utterly addictive to the sound of the Philips. If the "higher grade" E88CC's or E188CC's keep that Philips lushness while offering even better detailing and soundstage, now that would be 100% musical bliss ...


 
  
 I just acquired one of these from Upscale Audio.  This might fit the bill for the.. ""higher grade" E88CC's or E188CC's keep that Philips lushness while offering even better detailing and soundstage, now that would be 100% musical bliss ..."   It has all those things.  I've never heard detail like this before. I swear I heard a violin bow string fray. Haha. Instruments all have air about them. Vocals have never had this much presence, clarity and size. Nice soundstage. ..and did I mention detail! (I'm using HE400i's for these recent comparisons)
  
 I haven't written anything about it yet in the tube rolling thread.  It is said to be of the Philips SQ design. But made in India in the 60's, with all the same parts and tooling.  Exact same as those manufactured in the Heerlen plant, and said to sound the same, but at around half the price. Kevin at Upscale has a video on it, but do you think I can find it?  No!
  
 Anyway, this tube is like Scarecrow77 says, ..This is the best my music has ever sounded, by far.
  
 And it's really only a little bit more than the Philips PCC88 from Upscale.
  
 I was wondering if anyone else has tried it.
  

  
 And props to Schiit for the Vali 2.  It's incredible what this little thing can reproduce with just a simple tube replacement.


----------



## JK-47

I have had bad tubes and non tightly matched pairs as well as single tube/dual triodes that weren't the grade they claimed from reputable sellers. Even if they are tightly matched, one triode may have noise in it or be microphonic. Unless you have your own tube tester, you are at the mercy of the "reputable sellers". The world of tube sellers is murky at best, and those are the good ones, the bad are straight out scammers/con artist's.


----------



## Skarecrow77

rgmffn said:


> I just acquired one of these from Upscale Audio.  This might fit the bill for the.. ""higher grade" E88CC's or E188CC's keep that Philips lushness while offering even better detailing and soundstage, now that would be 100% musical bliss ..."   It has all those things.  I've never heard detail like this before. I swear I heard a violin bow string fray. Haha. Instruments all have air about them. Vocals have never had this much presence, clarity and size. Nice soundstage. ..and did I mention detail! (I'm using HE400i's for these recent comparisons)
> 
> I haven't written anything about it yet in the tube rolling thread.  It is said to be of the Philips SQ design. But made in India in the 60's, with all the same parts and tooling.  Exact same as those manufactured in the Heerlen plant, and said to sound the same, but at around half the price. Kevin at Upscale has a video on it, but do you think I can find it?  No!


 
  
 Very interesting. I had actually been eyeing the Pope PCC88 / 7DJ8 as a possibility in the future, but the BEL E88CC is nearly the same price, and that's some pretty high praise.


----------



## rgmffn

skarecrow77 said:


> Very interesting. I had actually been eyeing the Pope PCC88 / 7DJ8 as a possibility in the future, but the BEL E88CC is nearly the same price, and that's some pretty high praise.


 
  
 Yes, the BEL E88CC is my end game, for a while anyways.  It sounds that good to me.  I'm sure there's something better out there, but I'd have to throw money all around just to try to top it.  It's not worth it to me right now.
  
 I also grabbed one of these for the heck of it.  A Matsu****a / National PCC88 / 7DJ8. Soundstage is really good. Spacious. But in comparison to the BEL E88CC, was thin sounding and a leaned toward the brighter side. Vocals were subdued somewhat in comparison also.


----------



## Designer79

a44100hz said:


> Which Tesla do you have? I'm using a new JJ 6922 Gold Pin that may be my favorite current production tube [that I've tried] with the Vali 2. When I want something to sound "tight" I reach for that JJ tube. For more mellow I like the Bugle Boys.


 
  
 I am using a 1972 yellow label Tesla E88CC goldpin with factory code "32". I also have a 1975 white label Tesla E88CC goldpin, same factory code. They do sound the same ... JJ took over Tesla's tooling and machinery in the 80's and went on producing tubes to this day.
 Your experience mirrors mine, the Bugle Boys are also from the big "Philips family" with it's mellow characteristics. The Tesla's are very precise and tighten up bass and drums a lot.


----------



## The Lamonster

Couple questions:
  
 -Should I be using lo gain or hi gain with Philips Fidelio X2s?
  
 -Should I bother upgrading my original Vali if I don't plan on using the preamp outputs or swapping out the stock tube?  Is there a significant upgrade to sound quality (keeping in mind I'll be using X2s with this)?


----------



## HOWIE13

the lamonster said:


> Couple questions:
> 
> -Should I be using lo gain or hi gain with Philips Fidelio X2s?
> 
> -Should I bother upgrading my original Vali if I don't plan on using the preamp outputs or swapping out the stock tube?  Is there a significant upgrade to sound quality (keeping in mind I'll be using X2s with this)?


 
 Answer to your first question is very simple-whichever setting sounds better to you.
 Sorry can't answer the second as I don't have the original Vali.


----------



## RickB

the lamonster said:


> Couple questions:
> 
> -Should I be using lo gain or hi gain with Philips Fidelio X2s?
> 
> -Should I bother upgrading my original Vali if I don't plan on using the preamp outputs or swapping out the stock tube?  Is there a significant upgrade to sound quality (keeping in mind I'll be using X2s with this)?


 
  
 To my ears, the Vali 2 is a worthwhile upgrade. However, it is less "tubey" and warm sounding with the stock tube than the Vali 1.  You can tube roll with the Vali 2 to get the sound you want, though.


----------



## batmanwcm

The Vali 2 arrived today.  I now understand what many of you were talking about when you guys said it was cute.  It's very smalll and "cute" was the first word that came out of my wife's mouth when she saw it.  So far, I'm very impressed with the Vali 2 paired with my AKG Q701's and Silverstone EB-01 DAC.  I also have a Modi 2 Uber arriving tomorrow.
  
 I pretty much settled on this setup for the upcoming Fostex TH-X00's that will supposedly ship in May from Massdrop.


----------



## Capt369

batmanwcm said:


> The Vali 2 arrived today.  I now understand what many of you were talking about when you guys said it was cute.  It's very smalll and "cute" was the first word that came out of my wife's mouth when she saw it.  So far, I'm very impressed with the Vali 2 paired with my AKG Q701's and Silverstone EB-01 DAC.  I also have a Modi 2 Uber arriving tomorrow.
> 
> I pretty much settled on this setup for the upcoming Fostex TH-X00's that will supposedly ship in May from Massdrop.


 

 A little off topic but doesn`t that middle lump on the headband bother you? You`ll love the TH-XOO btw but not sure if it pairs well with the Vali though. That`s just from what I`ve read, you might like the combo.


----------



## jellofund

capt369 said:


> You`ll love the TH-XOO btw but not sure if it pairs well with the Vali though. That`s just from what I`ve read, you might like the combo.


 
  
 I've read a few posts along those lines too but they were for the original Vali which has quite a high output impedance (6.5 Ohms). 
  
 I haven't heard the original myself but from a brief listen with my Vali 2 & TH-X00 the pairing sounded pretty good using the low gain setting (a more suitable 1.2 Ohms output impedance). Should add I was using one of my own valves rather than the stock one though.


----------



## batmanwcm

capt369 said:


> A little off topic but doesn`t that middle lump on the headband bother you? You`ll love the TH-XOO btw but not sure if it pairs well with the Vali though. That`s just from what I`ve read, you might like the combo.




I never had a problem with the "lumpy" headband portion of the Q701's. They are actually pretty comfy. However, I've figured out that I'm pretty much bass head so I opted for the TH-X00'S as a replacement.


----------



## vcmusik

Just pulled the trigger on a Vali 2 last night, and got word that it's shipping out today. Can't wait! I'm also interested in getting that Philips tube that was praised earlier in the thread. But I'll wait and see how the stock tube sounds. As my first tube amp, it might just be good enough for my ears.


----------



## Skarecrow77

vcmusik said:


> Just pulled the trigger on a Vali 2 last night, and got word that it's shipping out today. Can't wait! I'm also interested in getting that Philips tube that was praised earlier in the thread. But I'll wait and see how the stock tube sounds. As my first tube amp, it might just be good enough for my ears.


 
  
 The opinions on the stock tube vary a lot. There seem to be several different variations that Schiit is sending out. Some of them have been reviewed pretty well here, others (like mine) were very un-impressive. I will give my stock tube another shot at some point, but I gave it an hour of initial burn-in and then 2 hours of listening and it had very few redeeming qualities.
  
 Yes I know that 3 hours of burn-in is not much time at all, but my upon swapping them, my Philips PCC88 sounded better than the stock tube instantly, a mere minute or two after I plugged it in. By the 3 hour mark it wasn't even close, the PCC88 was leagues ahead in every aspect.

 Here's hoping you get one of the "good" stock tubes, but if you find that you're a bit underwhelmed by your vali2 out of the box (as I was), it may not be the amp's fault. Just saying. Good luck!


----------



## NoOneLt

Hey, any rules on switching gain or headphones on Vali? Should power always be off when changing gain or hp? Or it isnenough to turn volume down?


----------



## vcmusik

Thanks! I might end up getting a Philips PCC88 just to have options, but here's to hoping the stock tube will be satisfying. Plan to pair it with my Sony MDR-1A and an old Yamaha YH-2 that I inherited from my late father. I'll also be receiving a TH-X00 from the latest drop that just ended on Massdrop recently. I'll report back on the results tomorrow!


----------



## rgmffn

noonelt said:


> Hey, any rules on switching gain or headphones on Vali? Should power always be off when changing gain or hp? Or it isnenough to turn volume down?


 
  
 I noticed no one has chimed in on this so I'll voice my opinion.  I've always switched the gain setting while everything is on and HPs plugged in and never had a problem.  I never even turn the volume down either.  Maybe I'm living dangerously I guess.
  
 Edit to add: I should mention that I have nothing playing when doing any of the switching. Lowering the volume before playing after switching to hi gain.
  
 Just some chatter here..  It's sometimes hard to keep track of who said what and who has what on here.  I'm the one that first posted praising the EH 6922.  I recently acquired a BEL E88CC (posted on it earlier above) and have been lovin' it.  I decided to reassess the EH 6922 after a good 20+ hrs listening to the BEL. 
  
 That EH 6922 is a nice sounding tube.. for 20 bucks.  A very well rounded performer.  But yet, it's not in the same league as the BEL. Nope!
  
 So, while I had the BEL out, I decided to do a little clean up on it.  I noticed that when inserting it, it felt like there was an edge or rough spot somewhere on one or more of the pins, and after getting by that spot, it gave, and went the rest of the way down.  I didn't like the way it felt.  Almost like something broke when it did that.
  
 I took it over to the work bench to have a look.  Under a magnifying glass I could see a rough looking spot on the inside of one of the pins about 3/16 of an inch long.  Almost looked like solder.  But rough looking. The pins are gold.  (coated, I guess)
  
 I lightly sanded and scrapped it smooth as best I could, carefully.  Checked the others, they looked ok. 
  
 I then applied some DeOxit to the pins and wiped off the excess. This is the first time I've ever used DeOxit on a tube. Why, I don't know.  I use it on other electrical connections and such - mostly flashlights, believe it or not.
  
 I'm sure after 40-50 yrs the gold on the pins are going to tarnish. Without inspecting it real good, it was hard to see much difference after the application.
  
 I returned it to it's earned and rightful home in the Vali 2, and this time, it slid in without a hitch.
  
 But you know, I really do feel like there is difference in sound quality too. 
  
 Wait for it.....
  
 It sounds cleaner.


----------



## vcmusik

noonelt said:


> Hey, any rules on switching gain or headphones on Vali? Should power always be off when changing gain or hp? Or it isnenough to turn volume down?


 
 Like Rgmffn, I switch the gain setting with the headphone plugged in. I think you can leave the volume up when you change headphones but personally I turn it all the way down just so I don't get any unpleasant surprises. Speaking of such, there is a slight "pop" sound when you first turn it on. If that sort of thing bothers you, you can just wait a few seconds before wearing the headphones. I feel like it's not too bad, but it can be a little uncomfortable if it happens when you're not expecting it. 
  
 Apologies for the delay in reporting my first impressions of my new Vali 2. Aside from some technical difficulties getting started with it (not the fault of the unit itself), I wanted to spend some more time with it in comparison to my stock motherboard audio to make sure my opinions weren't just merely placebo effect. 
  
 First, I must commend Schiit Audio on their packaging. Everything was packaged neatly in the box and shipping was fast. It took only about a day, but then again, I do live in CA. I was surprised at how compact the unit was. I had already seen it in video reviews, but it really was a surprise upon seeing it for the first time. I received a 6BQ7A tube, no other markings on it. For reference, my setup is PC (Gigabyte Z97MX motherboard) -> Radioshack Y-split RCA cable through headphone out -> Vali 2 -> Sony MDR-1A / Yamaha YH-2. 

 The very first time I set everything up, I wasn't getting any sound output into either headphone, but I gave Schiit benefit of the doubt that the unit wasn't faulty / DoA. Turns out it was just a little snafu in the output selection in my motherboard. It was set to Line In, and curiously, there was no Line Out option for me to select, so I switched it to Headphone Out and voila. I almost hate to admit it but the people who said that the Vali (2) is a neutral tube hybrid amp were right. At first, I couldn't detect much of a difference between it and my on-board audio. However, spending a few more hours with it, I realized how good it was after the fact.
  
 With the MDR-1A:
 Mids sound fuller and sweeter, whereas on my mobo audio, they were just kind of "there" and even maybe a bit bloated when I tried to EQ them up. Speaking of which, I turned off all EQing for comparisons and all my music files are FLAC/WAV rips of CDs I own. Treble is slightly rolled, and I was afraid that I wouldn't like it from the reviews I've read, but after hearing it in the context of everything else, I have to say it's not as detrimental to the experience as I feared it might be. With my mobo audio, cymbals and high female vocals were extremely shrill and sibilant.  Now with the Vali 2, I'm definitely giving up some excitement but the trade-off is I can listening longer without it being fatiguing. I knew not to expect much with the bass, but it still sounds balanced in comparison to the mids and highs. Direct through the mobo, I had more of a mid-bass thump, but the Vali 2 seems to mellow that out, and I get more of a sub-bass rumble that I haven't heard before. It wouldn't make a bass-head satisfied, but then again, I don't like too much bass anyway. Overall I would say that it's a good paring with the MDR-1A, as the Sony headphone tends to have kind of a scooped sound signature, and the Vali 2 flattens it. Not much change in soundstage, but slightly better instrument separation, and I can hear little noises that I never did before, like string buzzes and piano pedal changes. 
  
 With the Yamaha YH-2:
 I haven't spent much time with it admittedly, but what little I did spend, wasn't that enjoyable. I'd say it has to do with the headphone. It's extremely old and a magnetic planar (or what Yamaha called Orthodynamic), so I used the High setting. I couldn't compare this with my motherboard audio because it has a 1/4" plug and I don't have an adapter. But with the Vali 2, all I can say is...holy mids. The mids pretty much drowned out everything else. Electric guitars would overpower vocals tremendously, and middle key piano notes would stick out like a sore thumb from the bass and treble notes. I inherited it from my late father and it's in its stock form, so perhaps it could benefit from some modding. Until then I think I'll stick with using the Vali 2 with my MDR-1A until I get my Fostex TH-X00s in May. 
  
 Now the question is whether or not to get a Modi 2 to complete my Schiit stack. I'm not getting any weird electrical noise or anything of that sort from the mobo's internal DAC, so I'm happy with running it straight to the Vali 2 at the moment. Any thoughts on whether or not it'll actually improve the sound quality?


----------



## Skarecrow77

vcmusik said:


> Now the question is whether or not to get a Modi 2 to complete my Schiit stack. I'm not getting any weird electrical noise or anything of that sort from the mobo's internal DAC, so I'm happy with running it straight to the Vali 2 at the moment. Any thoughts on whether or not it'll actually improve the sound quality?


 

 All I can say on that subject is that I notice a significant difference from my modi 2. I don't think it's as big a difference as switching cans or switching amps, but it's certainly an improvement, and I've got pretty decent onboard sound (gigabyte z97MX-gaming5 with ALC1150 dac). A/B ing them isn't subtle.

 Best way to put it is that is $99 well spent in my opinion, and if somebody stole this one, I'd buy another in a heartbeat.
  
 edit: in case you're curious, I'm running foobar -> aiso plugin -> modi2 -> vali2 (philips PCC88 tube) -> NAD VISO HP50s


----------



## vcmusik

skarecrow77 said:


> All I can say on that subject is that I notice a significant difference from my modi 2. I don't think it's as big a difference as switching cans or switching amps, but it's certainly an improvement, and I've got pretty decent onboard sound (gigabyte z97MX-gaming5 with ALC1150 dac). A/B ing them isn't subtle.
> 
> Best way to put it is that is $99 well spent in my opinion, and if somebody stole this one, I'd buy another in a heartbeat.
> 
> edit: in case you're curious, I'm running foobar -> aiso plugin -> modi2 -> vali2 (philips PCC88 tube) -> NAD VISO HP50s


 
 Wow, I have the exact same motherboard. Yay mobo buddies! Lol. Well thanks, that settles it.


----------



## OldRoadToad

Well it's come down to this -
  
 I just want to listen to music. I neither care for nor understand the rolling of tubes.  I just want to hear music.  No (added) distortion.  Nothing taken away, nothing added.  I currently have a 40 year old Sony STR6800SD receiver that has a headphone output.  It works.  I also have (connected to my CD player) an Emotiva Amp/DAC and again it works.  I can hear no difference between the two.  My Onkyo TX-NR 818 has a headphone output and I can not hear a difference between that and the other two units I just mentioned.
  
 And that's fine because what I do hear is music.  Not the supposed effect of different tubes/cables/power conditioners, etc.  Not a grander soundstage nor transparency so transparent one could hear through it all the way to infinity and Beyonce'...  Yeah.  I cannot believe I just said that.  I loathe ol' Be-once and her "singing", but still a rose by any other name still has thorns and she and her hubby are pricks...  Dammit. I am rambling again...
  
 If others hear a difference then that's the difference for them, not me.  If something was engineered so poorly as to allow discernable differences in what I was hearing (e.g., added distortion, tube induced echo when the tubes were not being tapped silly by the owner) I would not waste my money nor my time. 
  
 I do however want to see a difference and with a tubed device I shall.  Nature may abhor a vacuum but it would seem many Headfiers like tubes all the same.   Schiit filled tubes must be something else.   To the folks at Schiit I say this, if you ever make a Vali 3 (or Valhalla 3) put some VU Meters on it and it will be the Vali of the Toad.  Until then, the Vali 2 will, like Babe, have to do.
  
 That'll do pig.  That'll do.
  
 El Toado Verde


----------



## Capt369

oldroadtoad said:


> Well it's come down to this -
> 
> I just want to listen to music. I neither care for nor understand the rolling of tubes.  I just want to hear music.  No (added) distortion.  Nothing taken away, nothing added.  I currently have a 40 year old Sony STR6800SD receiver that has a headphone output.  It works.  I also have (connected to my CD player) an Emotiva Amp/DAC and again it works.  I can hear no difference between the two.  My Onkyo TX-NR 818 has a headphone output and I can not hear a difference between that and the other two units I just mentioned.
> 
> ...


 

 Not quite sure about all that you've said but it sounded pretty cool.


----------



## Capt369

batmanwcm said:


> I never had a problem with the "lumpy" headband portion of the Q701's. They are actually pretty comfy. However, I've figured out that I'm pretty much bass head so I opted for the TH-X00'S as a replacement.


 

 I must have a pointed head, there were times I wanted to take a sledge hammer to 'em. I love the th-xoo and it's probably my end game for closed cup.


----------



## Capt369

jellofund said:


> I've read a few posts along those lines too but they were for the original Vali which has quite a high output impedance (6.5 Ohms).
> 
> I haven't heard the original myself but from a brief listen with my Vali 2 & TH-X00 the pairing sounded pretty good using the low gain setting (a more suitable 1.2 Ohms output impedance). Should add I was using one of my own valves rather than the stock one though.


 

 Sounds like a really good combo. I've got my XOO paired with an Asgard 2 on low gain. Too much congestion on high gain. Enjoy.


----------



## TheRealMVT

Thanks to recommendations here I bought a pair of ECC88. These are my first tubes apart from the Stock one with the Vali2, exciting!
  

  
 Can't wait to listen to my HD600s with this tube!


----------



## tdonnellyem

RealMVT:

Just curious why did you buy two tubes? Do you have a lyr or Valhalla as well as the vali?


----------



## volly

therealmvt said:


> Thanks to recommendations here I bought a pair of ECC88. These are my first tubes apart from the Stock one with the Vali2, exciting!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hope you enjoy the experience mate!


----------



## TheRealMVT

tdonnellyem said:


> RealMVT:
> 
> Just curious why did you buy two tubes? Do you have a lyr or Valhalla as well as the vali?


 

 If you get the opportunity to buy two for the price of one, would you let it slip?


----------



## TheRealMVT

volly said:


> Hope you enjoy the experience mate!


 

 Will do!


----------



## Faber65

therealmvt said:


> tdonnellyem said:
> 
> 
> > RealMVT:
> ...




Where?


----------



## TheRealMVT

faber65 said:


> Where?


 
  
 Got lucky on a craigslist esque website (they are second hand).


----------



## NoOneLt

Beautiful little thing i'd say


----------



## jimdandy

Just got my Vali 2 today. Wow there really is a difference in tube sound over  solid state. Got the Magni 2 Uber too so I'll use the Magni for TV  and movies and save the tube for music. Best of both worlds. Been reading on here and learning and listening. Got to get a few tubes and start down the "Rabbit Hole" as yall put it. Alice here I come. LOL Awesome. Those guys at Schiit Audio are the greatest for Rock. Especially Black Sabbath. Give more of my own impressions later.


----------



## jimdandy

I'm using Hifiman 400i,Modi 2 Uber connected to my computer. Anyone wondering about the computer can look at my profile. I will say I built my own. Stock tube,stock cable and Black Sabbath 13. The rest are coming by UPS. Lost some of my music moving. Everything seems to be mellower. The sss of the instruments are more accurate. I played tenor saxophone from 6th grade until after high school and even played a little for money. Until I got married. So drums being around all the time I naturally know the sound. More natural sounding is what I'm hearing. Wow planar magnetic and tubes really love each other don't they. On Adele 25 wow. Her voice is more natural. More intimate I guess. I can hear the sound of the sticks hitting the drums and cymbals better on Black Sabbath 13. More pronounced. Listening as I type so sorry if I'm jumping around. The sticks don't make such sssss sound. Awesome. If anyone reading this is on the fence about this amp or tubes in general, you owe it to yourself to experience tubes one time. The amp is so worth 169 dollars. A steal for the sound one gets. Now if I had a nice big room and a pair of Klipschhorns and a couple of mono block tube amps, I would be in heaven.


----------



## vcmusik

jimdandy said:


> Just got my Vali 2 today. Wow there really is a difference in tube sound over  solid state. Got the Magni 2 Uber too so I'll use the Magni for TV  and movies and save the tube for music. Best of both worlds. Been reading on here and learning and listening. Got to get a few tubes and start down the "Rabbit Hole" as yall put it. Alice here I come. LOL Awesome. Those guys at Schiit Audio are the greatest for Rock. Especially Black Sabbath. Give more of my own impressions later.


 
  
 Grats and welcome to the club! Which tube did yours come with?


----------



## jimdandy

I'll pull it later and let you know. Curiosity got the best of me LOL. Had to try out my new toy and did not look.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have to go to work so, when I get off in the morning I will look and post. So be looking. Sorry just had to know what I have been missing. I have heard a pair of Klipschhorns through mono blocks. A friends grandpa had some in his garage hooked to a turntable. Wow vinyl,tubes and horns. Heaven absolute heaven. I was 14 never have forgotten that experience. I will post the tube later wish I would have looked now curious myself. Loving the sound of my music. Planars and tubes are heaven also.


----------



## jimdandy

It is a 6BQ7 with a silver top. Went ahead and pulled it. No name just 6BQ7 across the the silver top. The plastic ring or whatever at the bottom seems to be damaged but it still works. I'll be ordering a new tube anyway soon.


----------



## jimdandy

The 6BQ7 looks etched and is grey. I posted a pic.


----------



## jimdandy




----------



## jimdandy




----------



## jimdandy

I just read about Matsu****a / National PCC88/7DJ8  Platinum so I ordered it from Upscale. See what it sounds like when it comes paired with the 400i.


----------



## Skarecrow77

jimdandy said:


> I just read about Matsu****a / National PCC88/7DJ8  Platinum so I ordered it from Upscale. See what it sounds like when it comes paired with the 400i.


 
  
 I almost went with the matsush!ta PCC88, but ended up going with the Philips instead. Still curious what the Matsu sounds like with the Vali. let us know!


----------



## jimdandy

skarecrow77 said:


> jimdandy said:
> 
> 
> > I just read about Matsu****a / National PCC88/7DJ8  Platinum so I ordered it from Upscale. See what it sounds like when it comes paired with the 400i.
> ...



Yes I will.Take me a while just ordered the tubes. Should be here Tuesday or Wednesday. As soon as they come in I'll listen and post. Can't wait to hear what they sound like with the 400i after I read what they said on Upscale about them.


----------



## Designer79

noonelt said:


> Beautiful little thing i'd say


 
  
 I hope you are enjoying the Tesla's sound signature.
  
 Congrats and have fun with the Vali2!


----------



## joeexp

The TESLA  is fantastic - My favourite at the moment!


----------



## HOWIE13

joeexp said:


> The TESLA  is fantastic - My favourite at the moment!


 
 It's great I find for instrumental timbre. Piano is spectacularly realistic. Tungsram E88CC and GE ECC88 'dark glass' are similar sounding excellent tubes too.


----------



## J-Mak

Hello, 
  
 I am new to Head-Fi. This will be my first post. 
  
 I listend to my new Schist Vali 2 for the first time last night. I think it has good potential. I think the NOS tube was fried though. The treble was harsh. I immediately pulled out a gold pin Gold Lion and it knocked my socks off. I played it with three of my favorite pairs of cans. HD650, 598 and my HD800. It sounded good, amazing for the price. Matched triods will be important as their isn't a balance adjustment. My source was iTunes 44.1 files and my dragonfly DAC. Sound was engaging and non fatiguing. I listened for several hours as my wife was watching Annie and other musicals with our baby daughter. 
  
 Will it replace a $1000.00 6080 based headphone tube amp, nope. Will it be a great sounding office headphone amp that I will not worry too much about growing legs, yup. This represents a great value for sure! I tried comparably priced Bravo headphone amps and they were terrible. This amp is the Schiit! 
  
 Enjoy. 
 Justin.


----------



## joeexp

howie13 said:


> It's great I find for instrumental timbre. Piano is spectacularly realistic. Tungsram E88CC and GE ECC88 'dark glass' are similar sounding excellent tubes too.


 

 I just did some tests and I think this tube sounds better in the low gain setting. Clearer, Less Distortion with my HD650s….
 Weird...


----------



## HOWIE13

I was doing that as well. My HD600 and 650 sound better on high gain and my X2 sounds better on low gain, I thought it was probably something to do with higher impedance cans needing more power but don't really know enough about it.


----------



## Tuneslover

howie13 said:


> I was doing that as well. My HD600 and 650 sound better on high gain and my X2 sounds better on low gain, I thought it was probably something to do with higher impedance cans needing more power but don't really know enough about it.




I've played around with the gain settings with my HD650's and I find that there isn't enough high frequency energy in lo gain. Hi gain just brings everything to life.


----------



## Designer79

Regarding the Tesla's detailed timbre ... T90 + Vali 2 w/ Tesla E88CC + Jeff Buckley's "Hallelujah", that's pure musical bliss. The finely articulated guitar is reproduced so well, absolutely fantastic. So far I still prefer the Tesla even over the Heerlen made Philips Miniwatt.


----------



## HOWIE13

tuneslover said:


> I've played around with the gain settings with my HD650's and I find that there isn't enough high frequency energy in lo gain. Hi gain just brings everything to life.


 
 That's a good way of putting it.


----------



## HOWIE13

designer79 said:


> Regarding the Tesla's detailed timbre ... T90 + Vali 2 w/ Tesla E88CC + Jeff Buckley's "Hallelujah", that's pure musical bliss. The finely articulated guitar is reproduced so well, absolutely fantastic. So far I still prefer the Tesla even over the Heerlen made Philips Miniwatt.


 
 Me too


----------



## alazhaarp

Hmm, I still can't find the right place to purchase tubes in europe. Anyone has suggestions? Thanks


----------



## HOWIE13

alazhaarp said:


> Hmm, I still can't find the right place to purchase tubes in europe. Anyone has suggestions? Thanks


 
 I don't know any one individual seller who will obtain all your tubes for you. I prefer to purchase by price, wherever. You need to watch for Customs charges of course but they may be offset by the higher prices European sellers often ask.
 I always make sure the seller has a 14 day return policy.


----------



## alazhaarp

howie13 said:


> I don't know any one individual seller who will obtain all your tubes for you. I prefer to purchase by price, wherever. You need to watch for Customs charges of course but they may be offset by the higher prices European sellers often ask.
> I always make sure the seller has a 14 day return policy.


 

 Yeah I think it's the most convenient way afterall. Find the seller with the most preferred price, reputation, policies, and shipping origin. In my case, ebay is still the best place to look for tubes in germany.
  
 Thanks


----------



## HOWIE13

I sometimes use the German eBay website as there are occasionally tubes there that are not on the UK one. My experience with German sellers is that they are very reliable and dispatch very fast. They tend to be a bit pricey though. Whenever I have had to email them they have always replied speedily, politely and in perfect English


----------



## RollinHard843

I just got a vali 2 this week. After listening to the vali 1 for hours and hours since may, i was excited for the upgrade. I love the vali, but the vali 2 is definitely an upgrade. I would say there's no major change in character between the 2 amps, but theres some improvement in high end definition and soundstage/imaging. 

Got a couple other tubes to try, all current production just to keep costs low. Never compared tubes before, but it was nice to learn how they impact the sound. 

I got a JJ/tesla e88cc and an electro harmonix 6922. The JJ has a slightly larger soundstage and greater treble detail. The EH has a bassier sound, not as much treble definition, but a deeper sound.

Since i listen for drums all the time, i like the JJ for cymbals and the EH for deep toms and bass drums (its great for vocals too).

Using the JJ for now because i gotta have that bright attack, but the EH might be better overall. Not that the stock tube was disappointing or anything, this amp sounds great to me either way. Very happy with this


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

Does Vali 2 go with my Beyer DT880 600Ohm?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

goodguccigoo said:


> Does Vali 2 go with my Beyer DT880 600Ohm?


 
 I haven't tried either (yet), but other users here have reported positive impressions with the T1, which is 600 ohm, and the T90. Similarly, quite a bit of users have had positive experiences with the DT880 600 ohm out of the Vali 1, so I would think the Vali 2 is a solid choice if you don't want to reach for the Valhalla 2.


----------



## TheRealMVT

goodguccigoo said:


> Does Vali 2 go with my Beyer DT880 600Ohm?


 
  
http://schiit.com/products/vali-2 
  
 If you check the specs on the official Schiit website, it looks like it will be good enough. The Vali2 gets for 600 ohms: 140mW RMS per channel

 Then if you'd check it with a Magni 2 for example on the following website:
http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/beyerdynamic/dt-880-edition-600-ohms/with/schiit/magni-2
  
 You'll get a peak SPL of 117.1 dB with a damping factor of 3000.
  
Hope this helps.


----------



## alazhaarp

So my Schiit Vali 2 came few days ago. It has been sitting and used on my desk since. But now I have a serious problem.. My girlfriend won't give it back! Yesterday she listened some of her music with it and now I can't even go near my Schiit.
  
 I'm considering contacting Schiit support for help.
  
 Help..


----------



## AviP

alazhaarp said:


> So my Schiit Vali 2 came few days ago. It has been sitting and used on my desk since. But now I have a serious problem.. My girlfriend won't give it back! Yesterday she listened some of her music with it and now I can't even go near my Schiit.
> 
> I'm considering contacting Schiit support for help.
> 
> Help..


 
 You should contact them, they're bound to have a humorous answer, post it here.


----------



## joeexp

General questions: info@schiit.com (by far, fastest response)


----------



## alazhaarp

avip said:


> You should contact them, they're bound to have a humorous answer, post it here.


 

 They just answered (whoa that was fast), unfortunately it wasn't a humorous answer, but a very friendly one. Nick from Schiit said in the email he can't help me with my "problem".
  
 Oh god Schiit support should get an award.


----------



## Mr Rick

alazhaarp said:


> So my Schiit Vali 2 came few days ago. It has been sitting and used on my desk since. But now I have a serious problem.. My girlfriend won't give it back! Yesterday she listened some of her music with it and now I can't even go near my Schiit.
> 
> I'm considering contacting Schiit support for help.
> 
> Help..


 
 You need to get another Vali 2.................................................or another GF.


----------



## mysticstryk

alazhaarp said:


> They just answered (whoa that was fast), unfortunately it wasn't a humorous answer, but a very friendly one. Nick from Schiit said in the email he can't help me with my "problem".
> 
> Oh god Schiit support should get an award.


 
  
 I have never experienced better customer service in any category of products or services in my life as far as I can remember (via email/internet support that is).  Compels me to keep giving them my business, which is not a bad thing as their products sit pretty high in each of their price brackets.


----------



## alazhaarp

So I told my "problem" to Schiit Europe too. Here's their response:


> Hi,     that is really big Schiit!
> 
> 1: buy a second one
> 2: brake up the relationship
> ...


 
  

 I think I could at least try number 3


----------



## Skarecrow77

goodguccigoo said:


> Does Vali 2 go with my Beyer DT880 600Ohm?


 


 I've got a set of 600ohm DT880s and even on High gain I had to use a significant portion of the volume pot, but it drove them quite well. I only used them for a couple minutes since I prefer the sound signature of my NAD HP50s, but it sounded quite nice on the DT880s.


----------



## Tov1

alazhaarp said:


> They just answered (whoa that was fast), unfortunately it wasn't a humorous answer, but a very friendly one. Nick from Schiit said in the email he can't help me with my "problem".
> 
> Oh god Schiit support should get an award.


 

 I can't say I am very impressed with Nick either...my experience hasn't been that great with their support.


----------



## mysticstryk

tov1 said:


> I can't say I am very impressed with Nick either...




What do you mean by that? Every conversation I've had with Nick has been a pleasant experience. Friendly and straightforward.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

therealmvt said:


> http://schiit.com/products/vali-2
> 
> If you check the specs on the official Schiit website, it looks like it will be good enough. The Vali2 gets for 600 ohms: 140mW RMS per channel
> 
> ...


thanks!


----------



## pieman3141

Interesting. I ordered the JJ E88cc Gold Pins, so I'm glad that I went with the right choice for my preferences.


----------



## Currawong

Review is up, including a video (for the curious). Nothing new if you've been following the thread. Howie13 kindly let me use some of his crazy tube-rolling pics for it.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-audio-vali-2/reviews/15331


----------



## Vigrith

alazhaarp said:


> Hmm, I still can't find the right place to purchase tubes in europe. Anyone has suggestions? Thanks


 
  
 I'd love to know this as well. I live in a country that hardly has much of anything in terms of professional/audiophile gear, I'm assuming ebay (either GER or UK) but I've never been keen on buying from there really, I'd really much rather skip the whole finding reliable sellers with proper shipping terms and return policies and insured trackable packaging etc and buy directly from a (web)store.
  
 I like planar magnetic headphones, I almost exclusively use my H400Ss currently until the H400is I recently ordered arrive - I'm aware the M2U stack is able to drive those but would using a Vali 2 instead of the Magni be a mistake? I've never owned or tried a tube amp and buying this one just to try and see how I like them seems reasonable enough. I listen to all sorts of music, mainly rap/hip-hop rock/metal (to a degree) and jazz in case that at all influences the answer(s)/decision. I'm just wondering whether or not it's completely pointless because either way I go about it it will end up costing me like 240 dollars rather than the 170 it costs in the US.
  
 Additionally in case it is worth me getting it does anyone have any cool tube suggestions? Probably gonna end up being for me to find/import them but either way I'm still interested. Thanks!


----------



## nwavesailor

currawong said:


> Review is up, including a video (for the curious). Nothing new if you've been following the thread. Howie13 kindly let me use some of his crazy tube-rolling pics for it.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-audio-vali-2/reviews/15331


 

 Very well done review!
  
 Thanks, Currawong


----------



## Vigrith

nwavesailor said:


> Very well done review!
> 
> Thanks, Currawong


 
  
 Oh so it does go with planars, thanks so much for quoting that review and congratulations on a job well done to the reviewer himself! I'll just go ahead and order it now.
  
 My question regarding cool/better tube options than the stock still stands, would love to hear opinions.


----------



## Capt369

nwavesailor said:


> Very well done review!
> 
> Thanks, Currawong


 

 Ditto and thank you Currawong.


----------



## joeexp

currawong said:


> Review is up, including a video (for the curious). Nothing new if you've been following the thread. Howie13 kindly let me use some of his crazy tube-rolling pics for it.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-audio-vali-2/reviews/15331


 

 I don't share your view with regards to using the Vali 2 as a preamp. I don't notice the symptoms (narrow presentation) you described with my active Monitors.
 But that obviously depends on what you compare the little Vali with…..


----------



## Letmebefrank

mysticstryk said:


> What do you mean by that? Every conversation I've had with Nick has been a pleasant experience. Friendly and straightforward.


 
  
 I agree, I had to send my Magni 2 back twice (first time from a blown regulator, then it was damaged in shipping back to me so I sent it back to them again lol) and he was always very helpful. Also shout out to Laura and Amy at Schiit for helping with the second repair and getting me prepaid return shipping the second time!


----------



## TheRealMVT

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried the Vali 2 with TOTL headphones? I'm particularly interested in the Sennheiser HD800, since I currently own the HD600, and I feel like the 800 being my next upgrade.


----------



## mysticstryk

therealmvt said:


> Out of curiosity, has anyone tried the Vali 2 with TOTL headphones? I'm particularly interested in the Sennheiser HD800, since I currently own the HD600, and I feel like the 800 being my next upgrade.


 
  
 I know some people liked their hd800 out of the original Vali.  As for the Vali 2, it has enough power, but whether it has good synergy, someone else will have to answer that.


----------



## q2klepto

Anyone compare the Vali 2 to something like the Bottlehead (w/ speedball?) - does it lose badly with the HD800? Damn kinda regretting not jumping on the BH w/ speedball sale last month


----------



## sheldaze

therealmvt said:


> Out of curiosity, has anyone tried the Vali 2 with TOTL headphones? I'm particularly interested in the Sennheiser HD800, since I currently own the HD600, and I feel like the 800 being my next upgrade.


 
 My personal experience (yours may vary) is rolling a tube made the Vali 2 quite suitable for the HD800. I did not like the stock tube w/ my HD800. However, once I changed to a tube for the HD800, I no longer liked the sound with my other headphones: HE400i, K7xx, SR60i
  
 Thus I chose to keep the stock tube and use other amplifiers for HD800.


----------



## TheRealMVT

sheldaze said:


> therealmvt said:
> 
> 
> > Out of curiosity, has anyone tried the Vali 2 with TOTL headphones? I'm particularly interested in the Sennheiser HD800, since I currently own the HD600, and I feel like the 800 being my next upgrade.
> ...




Thanks. What tube did you like with the 800? What stock tube do you have?


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


----------



## mynamesjeff

Hi.
 I currently have a mayflower O2/ODAC rev b combo. I'm looking at the Vali 2 to get started in the tube world. 
 Would it be ok to use the ODAC as the DAC then run the RCA's to the Vali 2? 
  
 Is that an ok combo?
  
 Thanks


----------



## MtnMan307

I just ordered the Vali 2 to go with the AKG K7XX that's supposed to ship March 9. It only took 2 beers to get the order placed for the amp.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

mtnman307 said:


> I just ordered the Vali 2 to go with the AKG K7XX that's supposed to ship March 9. It only took 2 beers to get the order placed for the amp.


 

 Haha I Just ordered my Vali 2 as well!!


----------



## MtnMan307

What cans do you have? I'm thinking it will be nice with my M50x and se215 if I want.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

mtnman307 said:


> What cans do you have? I'm thinking it will be nice with my M50x and se215 if I want.


my precious precious DT880 and um30 pro


----------



## MtnMan307

I don't know anything about the um30, but the DT880 is a good headphone. I'm pretty sure I have listened to that one.


----------



## Valens7

@Currawong: If you'll indulge me, how would you compare the Vali 2 against HeadAmp's pico Power? I'd be curious to get your take. I've (now) heard both, but not at the same time.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

mtnman307 said:


> I don't know anything about the um30, but the DT880 is a good headphone. I'm pretty sure I have listened to that one.


um30's mid is pretty forward that why I love them. Also they do a good job isolating outside noise so they are my go to iems.


----------



## sheldaze

therealmvt said:


> Thanks. What tube did you like with the 800? What stock tube do you have?
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


 
 I followed the advice of Jason Stoddard and Mike Moffat in trying the 6CG7. I got both a cheap RCA and an more expensive Electro-Harmonix with balanced triodes. Both seemed quite good with my HD800.
  
 See post #127.


----------



## Valens7

I'm currently listening to the Aurisonics ASG-1PLUS out of a Vali 2, sourced from a Modi 2 Uber. And... this is, by far, the best I've ever heard this earphone sound!


----------



## Faber65

Ok, you guys have convinced me: I just ordered a Vali 2.
With a little luck, and the help of my colleagues from US, I expect to put my hands on it in China on March 7.
I'm curious to hear how it works compared with my other small and cheap tube amp.


----------



## TheRealMVT

sheldaze said:


> I followed the advice of Jason Stoddard and Mike Moffat in trying the 6CG7. I got both a cheap RCA and an more expensive Electro-Harmonix with balanced triodes. Both seemed quite good with my HD800.
> 
> See post #127.


 

 Thanks for the tip! I will look into them when I get the chance. For now I have the stock tube and a Phillips PCC88 to entertain me.


----------



## jimdandy

I just got the the Matsu****a / National / 7DJ8 Platinum from Upscale Audio. Listening to them with my 400i. I was asked to give my impression and so I thought I would give shout out. It is hard to distinguish the sound of these compared to the stock 6BQ7. Of course they say on Upscale to give them 100 hrs burn in. So might be a little early so for that I apologize ahead of time. The 7DJ8 does seem to be a little more "natural sounding" than the stock tube. Especially drums and cymbals. The cymbals don't seem to have as much "sizzle" as the stock tube and "s" words don't have as much sizzle either. Of course my ears are 53 years old but I have taken pretty good care of them. I bought 2 of the 7DJ8 so I would have one in play when I have to order again. Should not have to order for a while though,I hope. Ordered the platinum grade. 90 dollars including shipping. Must say I like the way they packaged them. Upscale really knows how to ship. They came UPS and no breaks. Perfect condition. Will be ordering from them again for sure. I don't think I'm going over the 40 dollar mark on tubes after comparing. Might go to 45 a piece but that is it. I feel like there would be diminishing returns after that. I could be wrong though. Over all I think they are worth the money. They do seem to add to the sound a little. I like a natural sound not a "edgy" sound. But people are different. Some may not like that. If anyone is curious, when they burn in more I will get back here and report. As far as the 90 dollar price let me say, they were 35 a piece then 20 for shipping. Awesome in that they came in perfect. I will tell anyone looking for a place to buy tubes, and don't know where to go. To look there first. They have tubes that I would really like to try but they are rare and cost as much as the Vali 2. But still to have a rare tube........


----------



## vcmusik

After some burn-in time, it seems like my stock tube is getting just a tad bit on the brighter side. Not that I mind at all. 
  
 On the subject of rolling, has anyone tried a Genalex Gold Lion PCC88?


----------



## Skarecrow77

jimdandy said:


> I just got the the Matsu****a / National / 7DJ8 Platinum from Upscale Audio. Listening to them with my 400i. I was asked to give my impression and so I thought I would give shout out. It is hard to distinguish the sound of these compared to the stock 6BQ7. Of course they say on Upscale to give them 100 hrs burn in. So might be a little early so for that I apologize ahead of time.


 

 It took my "Philips" (really EI) PCC88 around 30-40 hours to get it's final sound (I stopped tallying around hour 40, I guesstimate I'm round hour 80 or 90 now), or so close as makes no odds.
  
 I agree that around $40 to $50 is the sweet spot for my wallet considering the longevity of the tube and the cost of the amp itself. I would happily reload another Philips PCC88 when this one dies, however I am quite tempted by the BEL tubes on upscale slightly above that price range though. Maybe I'll talk myself into one of those.

 I agree that my upscale experience was very easy and straightforward. I'd shop there again.

 Thanks for your opinion on the Matsush!ta. I was very curious about it.


----------



## Axiomatik

Would you guys recommend the Vali 2 as a good starter tube amp? I'm still trying to read up and learn...


----------



## NoOneLt

I would, lot of power, pretty and cheaper tube rolling  Of course it is half tube amp but good starting point!


----------



## mysticstryk

Absolutely a good starter amp. Could even be your only one as it has lots of power on tap for the price.


----------



## jimdandy

axiomatik said:


> Would you guys recommend the Vali 2 as a good starter tube amp? I'm still trying to read up and learn...


 

 YES! I listen to all types of music but not CW. Read my profile. Awesome little amp with just about headphone. You won't be sorry. I have a lot of products from Schiit Audio. Modi 2 Uber, Magni 2 Uber, Vali 2 and just got the Wyrd to make the stacks look even. Yes I'm OCD that way. LOL! The guys at Schiit Audio make awesome products man. I have had my Magni since Nov. 2013or so, no complaints still cranking. Just got the Vali 2 for the same reason you are looking. Got all Schiit cables as will. You will not be sorry. Go ahead you know you want to! The sound really is nice.


----------



## jimdandy

skarecrow77 said:


> jimdandy said:
> 
> 
> > I just got the the Matsu****a / National / 7DJ8 Platinum from Upscale Audio. Listening to them with my 400i. I was asked to give my impression and so I thought I would give shout out. It is hard to distinguish the sound of these compared to the stock 6BQ7. Of course they say on Upscale to give them 100 hrs burn in. So might be a little early so for that I apologize ahead of time.
> ...


 

 Your welcome I try to help all I can but I admit, I don't know a lot. It seems like a pretty good tube like I said. Not a bad tube for 35 bucks.


----------



## Axiomatik

jimdandy said:


> YES! I listen to all types of music but not CW. Read my profile. Awesome little amp with just about headphone. You won't be sorry. I have a lot of products from Schiit Audio. Modi 2 Uber, Magni 2 Uber, Vali 2 and just got the Wyrd to make the stacks look even. Yes I'm OCD that way. LOL! The guys at Schiit Audio make awesome products man. I have had my Magni since Nov. 2013or so, no complaints still cranking. Just got the Vali 2 for the same reason you are looking. Got all Schiit cables as will. You will not be sorry. Go ahead you know you want to! The sound really is nice.


 
  
 I don't have a DAC either, I'm guessing that the Modi 2 would be the best option there as well. Do I need the Uber?


----------



## EmiG310

> On the subject of rolling, has anyone tried a Genalex Gold Lion PCC88?


 
  
 I've tried this tube briefly and it sounded like it had more bass and top-end sparkle than the stock tube. I ended up getting an Amperex JAN 7308 USA for my Vali 2, it sounds great. 
  
 What should my volume knob be at for pre-amp use? I'm thinking about plugging it into my power amp to add some tube warmth to the DAC. I was thinking the volume should be at 80-90%, or is it better to run the vali 2 at 100% volume for pre-amp use? I'm pretty sure you want the hottest clean signal possible going to the power amp.


----------



## MtnMan307

How much was the Amperex? I probably need to get a spare tube.


----------



## EmiG310

mtnman307 said:


> How much was the Amperex? I probably need to get a spare tube.




I got one that tested as new (according to the seller) on eBay for $75. It seems like it opened up the sound stage and added more midrange detail to me. If you do get one on eBay try to find a seller that has high feedback ratings and lots of feedback. From what I've read the 7308 is a "select" 6922, with tighter tolerances. Contrary to some posts I've seen, it is not a 7 volt tube.


----------



## rgmffn

emig310 said:


> What should my volume knob be at for pre-amp use? I'm thinking about plugging it into my power amp to add some tube warmth to the DAC. I was thinking the volume should be at 80-90%, or is it better to run the vali 2 at 100% volume for pre-amp use? I'm pretty sure you want the hottest clean signal possible going to the power amp.


 
  What's your source, a PC, phone or the like?  If it is, for the best sound, you typically run the software volume  @ 100%  and control the volume with the Vali 2.


----------



## EmiG310

rgmffn said:


> What's your source, a PC, phone or the like?  If it is, for the best sound, you typically run the software volume  @ 100%  and control the volume with the Vali 2.


 
  
 Yes I always leave the software volume at 100%, that's not really my question. The DAC has a line-level output going to the Vali 2. The speaker amp that the Vali 2 is connected to has a volume knob, so I wanted to set the Vali 2 to the best volume, and use the final speaker amplifier's volume knob, unless I'm listening to headphones with the speaker amp turned off.


----------



## rgmffn

emig310 said:


> Yes I always leave the software volume at 100%, that's not really my question. The DAC has a line-level output going to the Vali 2. The speaker amp that the Vali 2 is connected to has a volume knob, so I wanted to set the Vali 2 to the best volume, and use the final speaker amplifier's volume knob, unless I'm listening to headphones with the speaker amp turned off.


 

 I never like to run something wide open like this.  What I would do then is, set the volume on the Vali 2 at something reasonable that allows the volume control on the speaker amp to give you a nice variable without being too sensitive or lacking.  It should sound just fine anywhere in this range.   
  
  
 Sp


----------



## EmiG310

rgmffn said:


> I never like to run something wide open like this.  What I would do then is, set the volume on the Vali 2 at something reasonable that allows the volume control on the speaker amp to give you a nice variable without being too sensitive or lacking.  It should sound just fine anywhere in this range.
> 
> 
> Sp


 
  
 Yeah makes sense. I'll play around with it but I'm thinking volume on the Vali 2 set to 75% or something might be a good start.
  
 Thanks


----------



## mysticstryk

axiomatik said:


> I don't have a DAC either, I'm guessing that the Modi 2 would be the best option there as well. Do I need the Uber?




You don't need the Uber unless you want/need the extra inputs. However the Uber will match the Vali 2 chassis better as the regular Modi 2 is painted steel, not aluminum.


----------



## Skarecrow77

mysticstryk said:


> You don't need the Uber unless you want/need the extra inputs. However the Uber will match the Vali 2 chassis better as the regular Modi 2 is painted steel, not aluminum.


 


 I can't find any evidence that there's any difference between the Modi 2 and the Modi 2 uber in the "meat" of the circuits. So far as I can tell, the only differences are the two extra inputs, the switch to change between them, the brushed aluminum chassis cover vs the painted steel chassis cover, and the dedicated power. The dedicated power being necessary for the optical and coax inputs, and possibly beneficial to the usb input depending on whether the power output of your motherboard is dirty.

 I've got my vali 2 about 2 feet from my modi 2 (non-uber) because that way I can tuck them under monitors instead of wasting desk space stacking them. I never even look at the modi 2 so the fact that it's painted steel doesn't even concern me. That said, they look similar enough that I don't think it would have bothered me to stack em.


----------



## mysticstryk

skarecrow77 said:


> I can't find any evidence that there's any difference between the Modi 2 and the Modi 2 uber in the "meat" of the circuits. So far as I can tell, the only differences are the two extra inputs, the switch to change between them, the brushed aluminum chassis cover vs the painted steel chassis cover, and the dedicated power. The dedicated power being necessary for the optical and coax inputs, and possibly beneficial to the usb input depending on whether the power output of your motherboard is dirty.
> 
> 
> I've got my vali 2 about 2 feet from my modi 2 (non-uber) because that way I can tuck them under monitors instead of wasting desk space stacking them. I never even look at the modi 2 so the fact that it's painted steel doesn't even concern me. That said, they look similar enough that I don't think it would have bothered me to stack em.





Yep, if you don't need the extra inputs then the regular Modi 2 will work just as well.


----------



## jimdandy

I have mine setting on my computer desk. They use the same chip so sound SQ should be the same. I got the Uber for the Toslink. Needed it for my DVR.


----------



## Designer79

axiomatik said:


> I don't have a DAC either, I'm guessing that the Modi 2 would be the best option there as well. Do I need the Uber?


 
  
 I have found the Uber's additional inputs to be very useful. I use it in my setup with PC, PS3, TV .. So it's versatile enough to be connected in various scenarios. Also, personally I prefer the sound connected by Toslink to the sound connected by USB.


----------



## montereylastset

First time posting.  Got a Vali 2 for Christmas.  I have a MAC with Roon, to WYRD to Nuforce DAC/Headphone amp/Pre Amp, to VALI2 to Audioengine powered speakers.  Almost always listen to speakers not headphones.  I plan to get a Bitforst Multbit when budget allows
 My question is re gain/volume settings.  I run all software at max volume. But what should gain be on Nuforce and Vali2?  
 I have Nuforce at 50% and Vali at 60-70%
  
 Thanks


----------



## MtnMan307

The amp isn't supposed to arrive until Wednesday but I ordered an Amperex on eBay for $19. I'm really excited to see the amp and compare the two tubes!


----------



## Joel Peterson

montereylastset said:


> First time posting.  Got a Vali 2 for Christmas.  I have a MAC with Roon, to WYRD to Nuforce DAC/Headphone amp/Pre Amp, to VALI2 to Audioengine powered speakers.  Almost always listen to speakers not headphones.  I plan to get a Bitforst Multbit when budget allows
> My question is re gain/volume settings.  I run all software at max volume. But what should gain be on Nuforce and Vali2?
> I have Nuforce at 50% and Vali at 60-70%
> 
> Thanks


 
 Do you mean gain or do you mean the volume knob on the amp. For powered speakers I would have the gain switch on High for the Vali 2 for sure. Does your Nufoce have line out or pre-out connections? I wouldn't recommend bi-amping unless it was entirely necessary, but keep the gain setting on Low for the nuforce in a biamp setup.


----------



## Trojita

Didn't even know these were released. I wonder if this will be the less expensive amp sweet spot I was looking for. It's always hard to find something that will work well with most of all of your equipment.
  
 I've been looking for an AMP or DAC/AMP that will do well with
  
 HD700
 TH-X00
 Fidelio X2
 B&W P7 (This one isn't necessary though)
  
 I'm hoping that this amp will calm the highs of the hd700 and sound well with the TH-X00 and X2's.
  
 The other reason I would enjoy this is that I could use them with my Creative Titanium HD using a RCA out (if that is advisable?). Right now I have a pain in the ass setup where my headphones are connected to the Creative (without amp or a usable volume knob), another headphone set connected to a fiio E17, and powered speakers connected to the realtek jack since the creative. Being able to just unplug headphones easily on my desktop while being able to use a volume knob will be awesome.
  
 Oh, one other question. Using the RCA out on the Vali 2 with powered speakers, is this advisable? I use the Klipsch 2.1 ProMedia's right now which output from only 1 green rca jack. Would have to get a RCA splitter I guess. How do you select between the headphone out and RCA Out or do one of them take priority when plugged in?


----------



## RickB

trojita said:


> Didn't even know these were released. I wonder if this will be the less expensive amp sweet spot I was looking for. It's always hard to find something that will work well with most of all of your equipment.
> 
> I've been looking for an AMP or DAC/AMP that will do well with
> 
> ...


 
 To answer your second question, the preamp out on the Vali 2 is absolutely designed to be used with powered speakers. When you plug in headphones, the preamp output is muted.


----------



## montereylastset

joel peterson said:


> Do you mean gain or do you mean the volume knob on the amp. For powered speakers I would have the gain switch on High for the Vali 2 for sure. Does your Nufoce have line out or pre-out connections? I wouldn't recommend bi-amping unless it was entirely necessary, but keep the gain setting on Low for the nuforce in a biamp setup.


 

 Thanks for your response.
 Unfortunately the NuForce has only pre out connections, not line out.  This is a good reason to buy the Bifrost Multibit DAC sooner rather than later!!


----------



## bookah

I just bought a vali 2 through user i20bot. 
  
 Question - I've read that the stock tube is somewhat aggressive and sibilant. What warm / bassy tubes have you guys enjoyed? For reference this will be driving my he-400.


----------



## mynamesjeff

Just got my Vali 2. Came with a stock Sylvania tube made in the USA.
 Using my X2s and HD600s. 
  
 Just a quick question. Is it normal for me wanting to use Hi gain for the X2's with this amp? I felt that the X2s seemed a little underpowered in the Lo Gain setting as i needed to set it to 2 o'clock to get a adequate listening level.


----------



## RickB

mynamesjeff said:


> Just got my Vali 2. Came with a stock Sylvania tube made in the USA.
> Using my X2s and HD600s.
> 
> Just a quick question. Is it normal for me wanting to use Hi gain for the X2's with this amp? I felt that the X2s seemed a little underpowered in the Lo Gain setting as i needed to set it to 2 o'clock to get a adequate listening level.


 
  
 Is your source output low? I use a Bifrost 4490 with the digital volume set to 100% in JRiver on my PC. I have the Vali 2 in low gain with my 300ohm HD600s and I never go beyond 10 o'clock.


----------



## mynamesjeff

rickb said:


> Is your source output low? I use a Bifrost 4490 with the digital volume set to 100% in JRiver on my PC. I have the Vali 2 in low gain with my 300ohm HD600s and I never go beyond 10 o'clock.


 

 I'm running Mac > ODAC > Vali 2.
  
 Using Apple Music


----------



## RickB

mynamesjeff said:


> I'm running Mac > ODAC > Vali 2.
> 
> Using Apple Music


 
  
 Don't know about Macs, but make sure the digital volume in your audio player is maxed out.
  
 Also, is the tube fully seated in the amp?


----------



## mynamesjeff

rickb said:


> Don't know about Macs, but make sure the digital volume in your audio player is maxed out.
> 
> Also, is the tube fully seated in the amp?


 

 Hi
  
 Yep, Mac source is maxed.
 re installed the tube. HD600s on lo gain need to be at 2:30 for
 X2's at 2 to be listenable


----------



## RickB

mynamesjeff said:


> Hi
> 
> Yep, Mac source is maxed.
> re installed the tube. HD600s on lo gain need to be at 2:30 for
> X2's at 2 to be listenable


 
  
 Then I would contact Schiit. Email  tech@schiit.com.


----------



## Superfrag

mynamesjeff said:


> Hi
> 
> Yep, Mac source is maxed.
> re installed the tube. HD600s on lo gain need to be at 2:30 for
> X2's at 2 to be listenable


 
  
  


rickb said:


> Then I would contact Schiit. Email  tech@schiit.com.


 
  
 It's the same for me.
 Apple Music in iTunes --> Modi 2 U --> Vali 2 --> X2s, low gain, volume pot is at roughly 1-2pm. It's loud enough at 2pm. If I want it to be low/soft, it's at 11-12pm.  But normally it's at 2pm.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

I run my HD600s on high gain, on some recordings I can max the volume pot on low gain and still need more power.


----------



## Tuneslover

rickb said:


> Is your source output low? I use a Bifrost 4490 with the digital volume set to 100% in JRiver on my PC. I have the Vali 2 in low gain with my 300ohm HD600s and I never go beyond 10 o'clock.




I run coaxial out from my FiiO X5ii into Bifrost 4490 to V2 in hi gain with volume knob set at 10 o'clock using HD650. If I switch the Vali to lo gain I need to crank volume knob to 2 o'clock. I hear no hum with the stock Sylvania tube or the Electro Harmonix 6922 tube in hi gain, however I do do hear a very faint hum with the JJ EC88CC tube. I find music is more dynamic sounding in hi gain.


----------



## q2klepto

superfrag said:


> It's the same for me.
> Apple Music in iTunes --> Modi 2 U --> Vali 2 --> X2s, low gain, volume pot is at roughly 1-2pm. It's loud enough at 2pm. If I want it to be low/soft, it's at 11-12pm.  But normally it's at 2pm.


 
  
 Man...X2 is rated at 100db sensitivity and 30Ohm....thats pretty damned sensitive with low impedance...V2 doesnt seem like itll push enough power to my HD800s
  
 Anyone running HD800 with this amp?


----------



## mynamesjeff

Awesome. Thanks good to know! Going from ODAC/O2 i was just a bit surprised i needed to really pump the X2s and HD600s on this. 
  
 Hi Gain on the Vali 2 is great anyways


superfrag said:


> It's the same for me.
> Apple Music in iTunes --> Modi 2 U --> Vali 2 --> X2s, low gain, volume pot is at roughly 1-2pm. It's loud enough at 2pm. If I want it to be low/soft, it's at 11-12pm.  But normally it's at 2pm.


 

 Awesome. Thanks good to know! Going from ODAC/O2 i was just a bit surprised i needed to really pump the X2s and HD600s on this. 
  
 Hi Gain on the Vali 2 is great anyways


----------



## RickB

The only thing I can say, y'all must be half-deaf by now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 j/k.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

I just got my Vali 2! Using it to power my DT880/600ohms, but should I set my Vali2 to high gain or low gain?


----------



## Superfrag

goodguccigoo said:


> I just got my Vali 2! Using it to power my DT880/600ohms, but should I set my Vali2 to high gain or low gain?


 

 Definitely high.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

superfrag said:


> Definitely high.


 
 Really? What's the difference though? I can still hear quite a bit music from low gain


----------



## Faber65

goodguccigoo said:


> superfrag said:
> 
> 
> > Definitely high.
> ...





I'm not an expert, but I would rather say that with the highest gain you should have more power reserve to manage the transients in a more appropriate way.
Especially if you listen to music with high dynamic range.
But again, I'm not an expert and at the end of the day the only final judge are your ears.


----------



## Faber65

By the way, I must say thank you the Schiit team for having processed my order in few hours.
The Vali 2 arrived to my company's office in Iowa in two days: awesome customer service.
Commendable!
Now my boss is bringing it to me in China and I am looking forward to seeing it sitting on my desk next Monday.


----------



## Currawong

Gain != power. 
  
 From the Vali 2 specs on schiit.com:
  


> *Output Impedance:* 1.2 ohms in low gain mode, 5.8 ohms in high gain mode
> *Gain:* 5 (14dB) or 1.25 (2dB)


 
  
 Firstly, with the output impedances listed, unless your headphones are below about 40-50 Ohms, high gain mode will probably be fine*. The low gain setting might have less hiss or noise.
 Secondly, gain is a multiplier of the input voltage (very roughly speaking) to the output voltage. Aside from the two issues mentioned above, it should probably be chosen to allow for ideal volume control for your listening preferences. 
  
*The usual arguments about ideal output impedance I don't think matter much with an amp this cheap.


----------



## Skarecrow77

I run my NAD HP50 and PSB M4U1 on low gain around 12 o'clock.
  
 I run my wife's 600ohm DT880s on high gain around 3 'clock. 
  
 The DT880s are pretty power hungry, but the vali 2 can do it.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

currawong said:


> Gain != power.
> 
> From the Vali 2 specs on schiit.com:
> 
> ...


So I guess the only difference is your volume?


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

skarecrow77 said:


> I run my NAD HP50 and PSB M4U1 on low gain around 12 o'clock.
> 
> I run my wife's 600ohm DT880s on high gain around 3 'clock.
> 
> The DT880s are pretty power hungry, but the vali 2 can do it.


It feels like 3 o'clock on high gain is producing same amount of volume at 6 o'clock on low gain for me


----------



## mynamesjeff

As this is my first venture with Tube amps, when you turn it on for the first time you have to wait about 15-20 seconds till you hear a pop from the headphones. The pop seems a bit vicious. Would it potentially damage the headphones and Should i just not plug in my headphones till after about 20 seconds to avoid it?


----------



## Superfrag

goodguccigoo said:


> It feels like 3 o'clock on high gain is producing same amount of volume at 6 o'clock on low gain for me


 
  
 Err 6 o'clock? My Vali 2 volume pot doesn't even reach 6 o' clock. It stops at 5 o'clock. In fact it only goes from 7 o'clock to 5 o'clock. :|


----------



## Faber65

superfrag said:


> goodguccigoo said:
> 
> 
> > It feels like 3 o'clock on high gain is producing same amount of volume at 6 o'clock on low gain for me
> ...




Different world time zone, maybe...


----------



## MtnMan307

My Vali 2 is at the local FedEx facility now. Tomorrow should be a learning experience for sure.


----------



## Tuneslover

goodguccigoo said:


> Really? What's the difference though? I can still hear quite a bit music from low gain




My HE500 which is a completely different headphone, I know sounded okay on lo gain except the bass on a familiar track was seriously lacking so I lowered the volume and switched to hi gain. The bass that I knew should have been there was back.


----------



## rgmffn

mynamesjeff said:


> As this is my first venture with Tube amps, when you turn it on for the first time you have to wait about 15-20 seconds till you hear a pop from the headphones. The pop seems a bit vicious. Would it potentially damage the headphones and Should i just not plug in my headphones till after about 20 seconds to avoid it?


 

 I'm not sure if others experience this issue, but when powering up my Vali 2, there is no noise in the HPs when the amp has reached its ready state. I also can't hear anything coming from the amp itself either. 
  
 Edit it to add:  It does pop.  See post below.
  
 I do do have an older org Magni and it does have a click coming from the amp, and a soft pop in the HPs when reaching the ready state. Nothing harmful though.
  
 This is may be a sample to sample issue, I don't know. Others would have to chime in to get a better idea.


----------



## Letmebefrank

mynamesjeff said:


> As this is my first venture with Tube amps, when you turn it on for the first time you have to wait about 15-20 seconds till you hear a pop from the headphones. The pop seems a bit vicious. Would it potentially damage the headphones and Should i just not plug in my headphones till after about 20 seconds to avoid it?


 
  


rgmffn said:


> I'm not sure if others experience this issue, but when powering up my Vali 2, there is no noise in the HPs when the amp has reached its ready state. I also can't hear anything coming from the amp itself either.
> 
> I do do have an older org Magni and it does have a click coming from the amp, and a soft pop in the HPs when reaching the ready state. Nothing harmful though.
> 
> This is may be a sample to sample issue, I don't know. Others would have to chime in to get a better idea.


 
  
 My Vali 2 does a very loud pop about 5-10 seconds after I turn it on, it almost hurts my ears if I have the headphones on my head when it happens. I leave my HD598s plugged in and I didnt really think about it damaging the headphones but now that you say something I'm a bit worried, I'll probably unplug them before I turn it on now.


----------



## rgmffn

letmebefrank said:


> My Vali 2 does a very loud pop about 5-10 seconds after I turn it on, it almost hurts my ears if I have the headphones on my head when it happens. I leave my HD598s plugged in and I didnt really think about it damaging the headphones but now that you say something I'm a bit worried, I'll probably unplug them before I turn it on now.


 
  
 After reading your post , I went back and checked mine again. It does pop!  I would have sworn that I checked it when new and didn't hear anything. Since, I have never paid any attention. Maybe it only started doing it later?  Will never know I guess.


----------



## Superfrag

I think it's pretty standard, mine has that pop as well, and only after the pop will sound come through from the computer. 
  
 Also from Schiit's website, the Vali 2 FAQ.

  


> So you probably cheaped out and left the protection off this amp, or something stupid like that, right?
> No. Vali 2 has a relay mute for delayed startup and fast shut-down. You can leave your headphones plugged in all the time.


----------



## Skarecrow77

Pretty sure the "pop" is normal and everybody's does it.
  
 I've only heard it twice (usually don't have my cans on when I power on the vali 2), but while it was jarring, it wasn't equipment-destroying loud. Personally I assume that it sounds especially loud because it's on a flat black background soundwise. I bet if you took a dbl meter to it, it's not much louder than "enthusiastic" listening volume.


----------



## JohnBal

This is the same as in almost all Schiit amps. It is a relay that is designed to protect the attached headphones from damage upon start-up. Jason has stated several times this is normal and that if it bothers you, simply disconnect the phones before you turn the amp on, and reconnect them after the relay has done it's thing 10 seconds after turn on.


----------



## Trojita

Was about to order the Vali 2 but just saw it's light output in a dark room. Do most people leave the device on or do you guys hit the switch in the back? Does that turn off the light?


----------



## RickB

trojita said:


> Was about to order the Vali 2 but just saw it's light output in a dark room. Do most people leave the device on or do you guys hit the switch in the back? Does that turn off the light?


 
  
 Since it's a tube amp, in order to preserve tube life you would turn it off when not using.


----------



## vcmusik

trojita said:


> Was about to order the Vali 2 but just saw it's light output in a dark room. Do most people leave the device on or do you guys hit the switch in the back? Does that turn off the light?


 
 Not sure if you're referring to the light of the tube or the white LED from the unit itself, but I'm assuming the latter. I was afraid of it too, but it's hardly noticeable, even in a dark room. Then again, it's pretty low in my peripheral vision because of how tall I am. The light of the tube is very faint in comparison to the white LED. I do turn it off when not in use because, well, to save electricity and tube life, so that turns off both lights. It's either both lights or no lights.


----------



## Superfrag

vcmusik said:


> Not sure if you're referring to the light of the tube or the white LED from the unit itself, but I'm assuming the latter. I was afraid of it too, but it's hardly noticeable, even in a dark room. Then again, it's pretty low in my peripheral vision because of how tall I am. The light of the tube is very faint in comparison to the white LED. I do turn it off when not in use because, well, to save electricity and tube life, so that turns off both lights. It's either both lights or no lights.


 
  
 Yeah, the white light is really bright, but Schiit sends a pack of black stickers you can put on top of the white LED light in order to mute it.


----------



## vcmusik

superfrag said:


> Yeah, the white light is really bright, but Schiit sends a pack of black stickers you can put on top of the white LED light in order to mute it.


 
 Uh...hmm. Mine didn't come with said stickers. Unless you're mistaking the rubber feet that are supposed to go on the bottom for them. Which did come on an adhesive backing and you have to put on manually.


----------



## rgmffn

trojita said:


> Was about to order the Vali 2 but just saw it's light output in a dark room. Do most people leave the device on or do you guys hit the switch in the back? Does that turn off the light?


 

 Yeah, Amazon has dimming stickers.  That's what I use.
 http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_16?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=dimming+stickers&sprefix=dimming+stickers%2Caps%2C167


----------



## Superfrag

vcmusik said:


> Uh...hmm. Mine didn't come with said stickers. Unless you're mistaking the rubber feet that are supposed to go on the bottom for them. Which did come on an adhesive backing and you have to put on manually.


 
 Holy crap, those are rubber feet? I thought they were light dimmers.


----------



## Skarecrow77

superfrag said:


> Holy crap, those are rubber feet? I thought they were light dimmers.


 
  
 Well, you know, they could be, if that's what you want them to be I guess. it's your money that paid for them.


----------



## Tuneslover

rgmffn said:


> Yeah, Amazon has dimming stickers.  That's what I use.
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_16?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=dimming+stickers&sprefix=dimming+stickers%2Caps%2C167




Yup I bought these and they do a good job of DIMMING the LED light. I have a Bifrost 4490 and Vali 2 in my bedside setup and these components really lit up our dark bedroom. These dimming stickers do a really good job of blocking out the extreme brightness while still keeping a small amount of soft glow to show which input the 4490 is set at and that the Vali2 is powered on...well I guess the tube does that too. Anyway I recommended these dimming stickers very highly.


----------



## nwavesailor

trojita said:


> Was about to order the Vali 2 but just saw it's light output in a dark room. Do most people leave the device on or do you guys hit the switch in the back? Does that turn off the light?


 

 Yeah, I have no idea why they used such a bright LED. There are so many LED colors available these days as well as padding down the light output using resistors.
  
 You could always de-solder the LED, cut one leg of the LED or cover it with a piece of tape. The first 2 would likely void any claims with Schiit if you had a problem!


----------



## Trojita

rickb said:


> Since it's a tube amp, in order to preserve tube life you would turn it off when not using.


 
 Aah okay so it would be turned off anyway. I assume that turning the switch off in the back turns off the white LED?
  
 Wasn't sure if blocking the white led would work because a picture I saw here showed the light coming out the top of the holes, which you absolutely would not want to cover up because of heat dissipation. I just need something to have in my bedroom that won't act like a sun illuminating my room. I abhor LED's on devices now especially things on the Blue side of the light spectrum.


----------



## RickB

trojita said:


> Aah okay so it would be turned off anyway. I assume that turning the switch off in the back turns off the white LED?
> 
> Wasn't sure if blocking the white led would work because a picture I saw here showed the light coming out the top of the holes, which you absolutely would not want to cover up because of heat dissipation. I just need something to have in my bedroom that won't act like a sun illuminating my room. I abhor LED's on devices now especially things on the Blue side of the light spectrum.


 
 Yes, the white LED turns off when you turn off the amp.


----------



## MtnMan307

I'm pretty blown away so far. It sounds pretty remarkable with just my M50x.


----------



## MtnMan307

I don't know what kinda tube came with mine. I think I lucked out though! Now I can understand why people love tube amplifiers. I'm hearing all kinds of stuff that I've never heard in the same music out of my phone or speaker amp jack on my desk.


----------



## bookah

Can anyone recommend a tube that will bring out the low end on my planars? My he-400's bass is weak with the stock tube.


----------



## EmiG310

> Can anyone recommend a tube that will bring out the low end on my planars? My he-400's bass is weak with the stock tube.


 
  
 If you want a good easy to get tube check out the Gold Lion E88CC. If you don't mind spending a little more, it seems the most praised tube is the NOS Amperex 6922 or 7308. I'm using Oppo PM-3 planars with an Amperex JAN 7308 USA and the bass is very good, though the PM-3 are a little easier to drive than the HE-400.


----------



## nwavesailor

emig310 said:


> If you want a good easy to get tube check out the Gold Lion E88CC. If you don't mind spending a little more, it seems the most praised tube is the NOS Amperex 6922 or 7308. I'm using Oppo PM-3 planars with an Amperex JAN 7308 USA and the bass is very good, though the PM-3 are a little easier to drive than the HE-400.


 

 I have the 7308 Amperex (USN-CEP) US and they sound very good with the Vali 2 and HE400S.
  Perhaps one of the better tubes I have tried with the Vali 2 / 400S.
  
 I'm assuming you have checked out the Vali 2 tube rolling thread?


----------



## EmiG310

nwavesailor said:


> I have the 7308 Amperex (USN-CEP) US and they sound very good with the Vali 2 and HE400S.
> Perhaps one of the better tubes I have tried with the Vali 2 / 400S.
> 
> I'm assuming you have checked out the Vali 2 tube rolling thread?


 
  
 Yes that's a great thread for Tube ideas as well.


----------



## jimdandy

I thought I would post some more on the Matsu****a / National PCC88/7DJ8. Listening to Deluxe Editions of Black Sabbath's first 3 CDs and the Heaven and Hell and Mod Rules CDs. First I'm using HE-400i rev. 2 headphones and Modi 2 Uber DAC for those who have not read my earlier posts. At fist everything sounded closed in and unlively a little. Then boom, just like that everything opened up it seemed like. Wow I like the Vali 2 over my Magni 2 Uber. I love the sound of the Tube. The headphones seem to love it too. Awesome for music and even movies. But saving the tube for music only. Really does something for Ozzy's voice on  the song Solitude from Master Of Reality. Toni's guitar on Sleeping Village is awesome. Tubes really bring something to the GS120 Gibson. I have Ronnie James Dio's last CD Heaven & Hell. Black Sabbath with name change. The acoustic guitar work on Bible Black is smooth like butter. Can hear the strum on the strings. Amazing, going to get another tube when my credit card rebounds from the money I have already spent.


----------



## h2rulz

jimdandy said:


> I thought I would post some more on the Matsu****a / National PCC88/7DJ8. Listening to Deluxe Editions of Black Sabbath's first 3 CDs and the Heaven and Hell and Mod Rules CDs. First I'm using HE-400i rev. 2 headphones and Modi 2 Uber DAC for those who have not read my earlier posts. At fist everything sounded closed in and unlively a little. Then boom, just like that everything opened up it seemed like. Wow I like the Vali 2 over my Magni 2 Uber. I love the sound of the Tube. The headphones seem to love it too. Awesome for music and even movies. But saving the tube for music only. Really does something for Ozzy's voice on  the song Solitude from Master Of Reality. Toni's guitar on Sleeping Village is awesome. Tubes really bring something to the GS120 Gibson. I have Ronnie James Dio's last CD Heaven & Hell. Black Sabbath with name change. The acoustic guitar work on Bible Black is smooth like butter. Can hear the strum on the strings. Amazing, going to get another tube when my credit card rebounds from the money I have already spent.


 

 Good to hear this. I just ordered a pair last night from upscale audio.
  
 Thanks for the impression


----------



## jimdandy

Brings out the crunch and the dark details that make Black Sabbath, Black Sabbath. Brings out Vinny Appice on the drums. He really hammers them hard. Seems to me to be a really nice tube for metal.


----------



## jimdandy

h2rulz said:


> jimdandy said:
> 
> 
> > I thought I would post some more on the Matsu****a / National PCC88/7DJ8. Listening to Deluxe Editions of Black Sabbath's first 3 CDs and the Heaven and Hell and Mod Rules CDs. First I'm using HE-400i rev. 2 headphones and Modi 2 Uber DAC for those who have not read my earlier posts. At fist everything sounded closed in and unlively a little. Then boom, just like that everything opened up it seemed like. Wow I like the Vali 2 over my Magni 2 Uber. I love the sound of the Tube. The headphones seem to love it too. Awesome for music and even movies. But saving the tube for music only. Really does something for Ozzy's voice on  the song Solitude from Master Of Reality. Toni's guitar on Sleeping Village is awesome. Tubes really bring something to the GS120 Gibson. I have Ronnie James Dio's last CD Heaven & Hell. Black Sabbath with name change. The acoustic guitar work on Bible Black is smooth like butter. Can hear the strum on the strings. Amazing, going to get another tube when my credit card rebounds from the money I have already spent.
> ...


 

 Cool that is where I got mine. They know how to ship them. I live in Texas so came long way and no breaks. Absolutely perfect. Let me know if you feel the same way about them. Thank you ahead of time.


----------



## rgmffn

jimdandy said:


> I thought I would post some more on the Matsu****a / National PCC88/7DJ8. Listening to Deluxe Editions of Black Sabbath's first 3 CDs and the Heaven and Hell and Mod Rules CDs. First I'm using HE-400i rev. 2 headphones and Modi 2 Uber DAC for those who have not read my earlier posts. At fist everything sounded closed in and unlively a little. Then boom, just like that everything opened up it seemed like. Wow I like the Vali 2 over my Magni 2 Uber. I love the sound of the Tube. The headphones seem to love it too. Awesome for music and even movies. But saving the tube for music only. Really does something for Ozzy's voice on  the song Solitude from Master Of Reality. Toni's guitar on Sleeping Village is awesome. Tubes really bring something to the GS120 Gibson. I have Ronnie James Dio's last CD Heaven & Hell. Black Sabbath with name change. The acoustic guitar work on Bible Black is smooth like butter. Can hear the strum on the strings. Amazing, going to get another tube when my credit card rebounds from the money I have already spent.


 
 So now I'm going to have to go back and listen to my Matsush!ta / National PCC88/7DJ8 again! Lol.  My BEL E88CC trumped it by a good margin when I compared them.  And that's all I've been listening to for weeks!  I got them at the same time. Maybe it needs more break-in time. I'm gonna go fire it up.


----------



## bookah

Has anyone had issues powering the vali 2? I just received mine in the mail a few days ago from another head-fi user. It turned off on its own while I was listening and now it wont turn back on. I've tried multiple sockets.


----------



## HOWIE13

bookah said:


> Has anyone had issues powering the vali 2? I just received mine in the mail a few days ago from another head-fi user. It turned off on its own while I was listening and now it wont turn back on. I've tried multiple sockets.


 
 I had that problem with a different amp and the power supply was failing. In my case it was due to using a tube that was drawing too much current for the power supply but any failure of power supply would cause the amp to go off. I would contact Schiit, it maybe a fuse or something has blown. In the UK there is a fuse in the wall socket plug that sometimes blows in these circumstances and is easily changed.


----------



## Tuneslover

I had an interesting thing happen while listening to my Vali 2 last night. I was getting ready for a listening session having just turned on the V2 as well as my source X5ii (coaxial out into Bifrost 4490 into V2). The X5ii was in pause mode. I reached over to adjust the volume knob on the Vali 2 and accidentally brushed/bumped the flat portion of my fingernail against the volume knob. This contact amplified a funny metallic sound into my headphones. I intentionally kept tapping the volume knob and it kept amplifying this metallic sound into my headphones. I'm not sure if this sound was the tube ringing caused by the unit vibrating when I tapped the volume knob or what. In any event it was an interesting experience. I wouldn't have noticed this had the player not have been in pause mode.

I had the stock Sylvania tube in the V2 when this occurred (which is my favorite tube by the way). I tried my JJ E88C and Electro Harmonix 6922EH tubes but I couldn't reproduce this amplified metallic sound.


----------



## nwavesailor

tuneslover said:


> I had an interesting thing happen while listening to my Vali 2 last night. I was getting ready for a listening session having just turned on the V2 as well as my source X5ii (coaxial out into Bifrost 4490 into V2). The X5ii was in pause mode. I reached over to adjust the volume knob on the Vali 2 and accidentally brushed/bumped the flat portion of my fingernail against the volume knob. This contact amplified a funny metallic sound into my headphones. I intentionally kept tapping the volume knob and it kept amplifying this metallic sound into my headphones. I'm not sure if this sound was the tube ringing caused by the unit vibrating when I tapped the volume knob or what. In any event it was an interesting experience. I wouldn't have noticed this had the player not have been in pause mode.
> 
> I had the stock Sylvania tube in the V2 when this occurred (which is my favorite tube by the way). I tried my JJ E88C and Electro Harmonix 6922EH tubes but I couldn't reproduce this amplified metallic sound.


 

 Microphonic stock tube?


----------



## tomb

nwavesailor said:


> tuneslover said:
> 
> 
> > I had an interesting thing happen while listening to my Vali 2 last night. I was getting ready for a listening session having just turned on the V2 as well as my source X5ii (coaxial out into Bifrost 4490 into V2). The X5ii was in pause mode. I reached over to adjust the volume knob on the Vali 2 and accidentally brushed/bumped the flat portion of my fingernail against the volume knob. This contact amplified a funny metallic sound into my headphones. I intentionally kept tapping the volume knob and it kept amplifying this metallic sound into my headphones. I'm not sure if this sound was the tube ringing caused by the unit vibrating when I tapped the volume knob or what. In any event it was an interesting experience. I wouldn't have noticed this had the player not have been in pause mode.
> ...


 

 Absolutely microphonics.  There shouldn't be a problem as long as it doesn't go beyond what is described.  A microphonic tube is disappointing, but if it sounds good - keep it.
  
 You can try some tube rings or perhaps some additional padding under the amp to ensure that it doesn't invade into your music.
  
 Good thing you're talking about the Vali *2*.


----------



## HOWIE13

tomb said:


> Absolutely microphonics.  There's shouldn't be a problem as long as it doesn't go beyond what is described.  A microphonic tube is disappointing, but if it sounds good - keep it.
> 
> You can try some tube rings or perhaps some additional padding under the amp to ensure that it doesn't invade into your music.
> 
> Good thing you're talking about the Vali *2*.


 
 Many of my best sounding tubes are microphonic as long as they are silent when listening.


----------



## Superfrag

Anyone has tried Vali 2 with the Beyerdynamic T1? Does it do a good enough job? It should, but I wanted to know if anyone has actually tried it.


----------



## EmiG310

Hey guys just wondering has anyone tried the HiFiMAN HE-560's on a Vali 2? Is it enough power?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Tuneslover

emig310 said:


> Hey guys just wondering has anyone tried the HiFiMAN HE-560's on a Vali 2? Is it enough power?
> 
> Thanks


 
 I don't have the HE560 but I do have the HE500 and it needs hi gain to bring out sufficient bass.


----------



## Tuneslover

tomb said:


> Absolutely microphonics.  There's shouldn't be a problem as long as it doesn't go beyond what is described.  A microphonic tube is disappointing, but if it sounds good - keep it.
> 
> You can try some tube rings or perhaps some additional padding under the amp to ensure that it doesn't invade into your music.
> 
> Good thing you're talking about the Vali *2*.


 
 It only does that when I tap the volume knob and that was totally by accident.  I just tried it again and it only happens when I tap the side of the volume knob, it's totally quiet if I tap the front of the knob.  I gently tapped the tube itself with my fingernail and it made the same metallic sound.  While I was at it I tapped the Vali 2 body in various locations and there was no microphonics.  Just to put things into perspective, I need to intentionally tap the volume knob in a specific location to get this sound and the sound is very faint.  While playing music I can't hear any microphonics when trying to intentionally recreate this sound.


----------



## nwavesailor

tuneslover said:


> It only does that when I tap the volume knob and that was totally by accident.  I just tried it again and it only happens when I tap the side of the volume knob, it's totally quiet if I tap the front of the knob.  I gently tapped the tube itself with my fingernail and it made the same metallic sound.  While I was at it I tapped the Vali 2 body in various locations and there was no microphonics.  Just to put things into perspective, I need to intentionally tap the volume knob in a specific location to get this sound and the sound is very faint.  While playing music I can't hear any microphonics when trying to intentionally recreate this sound.


 

 Yep, that is a microphonic tube....but in truth, ALL tubes are microphonic, it's just to what degree.
  
 I have, use and like a lot of microphonic tubes and do so w/o issues.


----------



## rgmffn

jimdandy said:


> I thought I would post some more on the *Matsu****a / National PCC88/7DJ8*. Listening to Deluxe Editions of Black Sabbath's first 3 CDs and the Heaven and Hell and Mod Rules CDs. First I'm using HE-400i rev. 2 headphones and Modi 2 Uber DAC for those who have not read my earlier posts. At fist everything sounded closed in and unlively a little. *Then boom, just like that everything opened up it seemed like*. Wow I like the Vali 2 over my Magni 2 Uber. I love the sound of the Tube. The headphones seem to love it too. Awesome for music and even movies. But saving the tube for music only. Really does something for Ozzy's voice on  the song Solitude from Master Of Reality. Toni's guitar on Sleeping Village is awesome. Tubes really bring something to the GS120 Gibson. I have Ronnie James Dio's last CD Heaven & Hell. Black Sabbath with name change. The acoustic guitar work on Bible Black is smooth like butter. Can hear the strum on the strings. Amazing, going to get another tube when my credit card rebounds from the money I have already spent.


 
  
  


rgmffn said:


> *So now I'm going to have to go back and listen to my Matsush!ta / National PCC88/7DJ8 again!* Lol.  My BEL E88CC trumped it by a good margin when I compared them.  And that's all I've been listening to for weeks!  I got them at the same time. Maybe it needs more break-in time. *I'm gonna go fire it up.*


 
  
  
 So I went back and gave the National Matsush!ta another go.  I've been rockin' the BEL E88CC. (w/ HE400i)
  
 These comparisons are to each other as well as what I hear. And my assessments mirror my thoughts when I compared them before earlier in the thread a few weeks ago.
  
 Matsush!ta National 7DJ8 - A little sharper sounding, faster, but that translates to a nice soundstage.  Vocals not as full sounding.  Overall it just has a slightly thinner presentation.  Somewhat metallic.. like.. maybe..?
  
 BEL E88CC - A bit warmer overall, bass is a little more filling with slightly more kick, vocals are more natural sounding & larger, slightly more airy overall also.  I can't say that it has a larger soundstage, it doesn't really.  It's a bit hard to explain, but the sound that it produces sounds bigger, fuller. It has more presence, but yet still spacial.  Rich sounding, lush, I guess.  Which all equates to sounding more musical to me.  More euphoric. 
  
 Detail on both are nice.  If I hadn't gotten the BEL at the same time as the National, I probably would have been perfectly content with the National.  It is certainly a nice sounding tube for sure.  But, things are as they are so, I have to be using the BEL or I won't be content knowing I'm not getting the best sound out of the Vali 2 with the selection that I have.  Lets see, I also have the stock 6BQ7A tube, an EH 6922, EH 6CG7, JJ6922/E88CC, and a Tesla E88CC.
  
 Not to say that others wouldn't prefer the National.  Different headphones and personal tastes would apply.  

 But to my ears and on my setup, I prefer (love) the BEL E88CC to all the above tubes.  And it's not a hard decision at all. Highly recommended.


----------



## bookah

There is a review on the homepage driving the he1000s if I remember correctly. My he400 is driven fine, I use high gain and never go past 12 o'clock. Low gain is great but the bass has less impact


----------



## tomb

tuneslover said:


> tomb said:
> 
> 
> > Absolutely microphonics.  There's shouldn't be a problem as long as it doesn't go beyond what is described.  A microphonic tube is disappointing, but if it sounds good - keep it.
> ...


 
  
 As noted in several posts you have received, yours must be a mildly microphonic tube.
  
 Keep in mind that there are microphonic tubes out there that never stop ringing.  A single tap anywhere in the vicinity can result in ringing that lasts for several minutes, effectively rendering the tube totally useless.  There are entire lineups of tube types that may have inherent microphonics.  Selecting from such a tube family means the worst case is a much greater occurrence than with a higher-quality, audio tube family.
  
 It doesn't seem like you have anything to worry about, though.


----------



## rootscript

emig310 said:


> What should my volume knob be at for pre-amp use? I'm thinking about plugging it into my power amp to add some tube warmth to the DAC. I was thinking the volume should be at 80-90%, or is it better to run the vali 2 at 100% volume for pre-amp use? I'm pretty sure you want the hottest clean signal possible going to the power amp.


 
 I have been discussing volume levels with a very trusted audio friend.
 In my case, Software player volume is at 100% on my Mac > DAC volume is at 100% (important) > Vali 2 (this preamp used as main volume control) > main tube amp volume 100% (the main tube amp sounds best when running at 100%). I get absolutely no distortion, even at the loudest volume levels my ears can take.
  
 That is what has been recommended to me (runing everything at 100% & using the Vali 2 as the master volume control), I have tested it with my equipment (passive desktop speakers) and I am very happy.


----------



## EmiG310

rootscript said:


> I have been discussing volume levels with a very trusted audio friend.
> In my case, Software player volume is at 100% on my Mac > DAC volume is at 100% (important) > Vali 2 (this preamp used as main volume control) > main tube amp volume 100% (the main tube amp sounds best when running at 100%). I get absolutely no distortion, even at the loudest volume levels my ears can take.
> 
> That is what has been recommended to me (runing everything at 100% & using the Vali 2 as the master volume control), I have tested it with my equipment (passive desktop speakers) and I am very happy.


 
 That sounds like a good strategy for your setup. I want to use my Power Amp's volume knob (mostly because it has an IR remote) for my home theater, so I would just set the vali 2 to a certain volume and leave it there. I haven't taken my Vali 2 home yet to test it out for this purpose (I use it at work for headphones) but I'm debating getting another Vali 2 for the house. I just need to decide what kind of headphones I want at home to make sure the Vali 2 will be appropriate. What a sweet little amp though.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

Yeah my Vali 2 volume knob can only turn from like 5 o'clock to 10 o'clock. Is there a way to fix it????


----------



## Superfrag

goodguccigoo said:


> Yeah my Vali 2 volume knob can only turn from like 5 o'clock to 10 o'clock. Is there a way to fix it????


 
  
 5 to 10? Mine goes from 7 to 5.. is everyone's volume knob differently set?


----------



## AviP

goodguccigoo said:


> Yeah my Vali 2 volume knob can only turn from like 5 o'clock to 10 o'clock. Is there a way to fix it????



.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

Wait sorry it goes from 7 to 5...my bad, but shouldn't it go from 12 to 12?


----------



## vcmusik

If we're talking about where the hole on the volume knob is, mine goes from 1 o'clock to 11 o'clock.


----------



## mynamesjeff

Does anyone listen to their Fidelio X2s on Hi Gain? I feel it brings out the bass and mids more than Lo.


----------



## Faber65

Arrived!!!


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

vcmusik said:


> If we're talking about where the hole on the volume knob is, mine goes from 1 o'clock to 11 o'clock.


 

 yeah is it normal?


----------



## vcmusik

goodguccigoo said:


> yeah is it normal?


 
 I'm not sure, as I have no other Vali 2s to compare it to, but I myself don't see it as a problem that it doesn't turn past 11. At about 9 o'clock it gets into hurting-my-ears territory so I would venture to guess that it's somewhat normal.


----------



## nwavesailor

Beginning (0) at 7 ending at 5 (max) is where mine is.
  
 You can always loosen the hex fastener and have the beginning and ending point aim where you want!


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

nwavesailor said:


> Beginning (0) at 7 ending at 5 (max) is where mine is.
> 
> You can always loosen the hex fastener and have the beginning and ending point aim where you want!


cool that will fix my problem!
Btw how does Vali2 go with HD600?


----------



## Karias

> Btw how does Vali2 go with HD600?


 
 ^ I second that too. Really would love to know how the HD600 sounds with the Vali 2


----------



## RickB

karias said:


> ^ I second that too. Really would love to know how the HD600 sounds with the Vali 2 :blink:




The HD600 sounds fantastic with the Vali 2, never heard it sound better. However, let me point out that I've only heard mid-fi equipment up til now.


----------



## Trojita

My Vali 2 came today. Box and layout was simple but nice. Like how they secured the amp in there. I was worried about breaking something when putting the tube in lol.
  
 Unfortunately I can't get my Creative X-FI Titanium HD to work. I bought the RCA cables, set everything up, but no sound. I was pretty sure it supported RCA out (the interchange terms between coaxial and S/Pdif confuse me), but now I'm thinking either the drivers are messed up even after I've tried everything to fix it or it doesn't support this anyways (which is weird and sucky but I guess maybe not surprising?). I've never seen claims that it couldn't do this output until when searching for a fix to my problem I found this mention 
  
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/sound-blaster-x-fi-titanium-hd-review,3.html
  
  

  
  


> From left to right we have Microphone input (mini-jack), Headphones (mini-jack), Left and right line outputs (white/red) and line I/O - S/pdif I/O combo jacks.
> *Note:* The last set of RCA jacks can function as normal line level input or can be switched to S/Pdif digital operation. White is optical input and Red is optical output.  This card does not offer coaxial S/Pdif output only optical connection.  The bundle does include two mini toslink to toslink cables which help for connections.  We also have to clarify that although this card has a headphone output, this design does not have a headphones amplifier.


 
  
 I don't know if this is verified true, but it isn't looking good. The sound card has a decent built in DAC and I wanted to be able to use the CMSS-3D. Damn, I didn't want to spend anymore money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I guess if it literally can't work I have three options, either buy a sound card that supports coaxial S/Pdif output, a DAC with USB like the Modi 2 and just forget the sound card and 3D audio or get a DAC with optical like the Modi 2 Uber.


----------



## EmiG310

trojita said:


> My Vali 2 came today. Box and layout was simple but nice. Like how they secured the amp in there. I was worried about breaking something when putting the tube in lol.
> 
> Unfortunately I can't get my Creative X-FI Titanium HD to work. I bought the RCA cables, set everything up, but no sound. I was pretty sure it supported RCA out (the interchange terms between coaxial and S/Pdif confuse me), but now I'm thinking either the drivers are messed up even after I've tried everything to fix it or it doesn't support this anyways (which is weird and sucky but I guess maybe not surprising?). I've never seen claims that it couldn't do this output until when searching for a fix to my problem I found this mention
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 So you want Line Out to go to IN on the Vali 2:


----------



## Trojita

emig310 said:


> So you want Line Out to go to IN on the Vali 2:


 
 Tried that 
  
 So either the cables are bad or they just can't do it. I put the white cable and red cable in their respective colors (I actually tried both sets of r/w just in case) then the other end went into the IN ports on the back of the Vali 2. Am I missing something here?


----------



## Skarecrow77

trojita said:


> Tried that
> 
> So either the cables are bad or they just can't do it. I put the white cable and red cable in their respective colors (I actually tried both sets of r/w just in case) then the other end went into the IN ports on the back of the Vali 2. Am I missing something here?


 
  
 cheap solution, use the headphone out... line would be better, but take what you can get:
  
 www.amzn.com/B00DI89NPE

 better solution, ditch the internal sound card, and go with the companion DAC to the vali 2:
  
 http://schiit.com/products/modi-2


----------



## Letmebefrank

trojita said:


> Tried that
> 
> So either the cables are bad or they just can't do it. I put the white cable and red cable in their respective colors (I actually tried both sets of r/w just in case) then the other end went into the IN ports on the back of the Vali 2. Am I missing something here?


 
  
 Check the sound blaster software settings to see if there is an output selection, because sometimes it only outputs through the headphone out by default. Also check your windows playback devices to see if you have the right option selected in there as well.


----------



## Noremac82

This was my first amp and I have had it for a couple months. I am sure there are better amps out there but I can say this is the one that got me hooked. You can always tell when I like something because I have to make it my own so mine received a paint job and a new volume knob.i also replaced the stock tube with a Pope PCC88 which is supposed to be the same as an Amperex Bugle Boy, just under a different name. I don't know if that is true but it made a world of difference. It really brought out the highs and cleared up the sound over the entire spectrum. I have a Golden Lion tube also and to me it has a darker sound but still clear. I am going to stick with the Pope tube for now though. 

I also replaced all the electrolytic caps with Silmic II's of equivalent size and rating. This made a world of difference in the sound quality after they got broken in. The caps are much larger than original so they are mounted off the PCB on a piece of prototype board. I can still get the cover back on it though. I am not sure the upgrade was worth the trouble and voiding the warranty but I am in the process of learning about tube amps so it was worth it to me. I have my eyes on a couple more components in there that might need to be upgraded just to see how it change the sound.

I might start a thread once I get past my probationary period on here to shows how I performed my upgrades and log their progress. I need better headphones now so I can take advantage of the improved sound. Kinda bad when a 170 dollar amp convinces you to spend 5 or 600 on a new set of headphones. Oh well, I guess that means I have the "bug" and I am happy to admit it. 

Bottom line, this is a great introductory amp and one that I will always remember as the amp that got it all started for me! And I will always hate it too because I have a feeling it is going to cause me to spend a lot of money in my pursuit of perfection!


----------



## dmallen

Had the Vali 2 for a few months now, done some tube rolling so time to report in. Main listening has been with the HE-400S and other times the HD-650.
  
 Fav tube: Electro-Harmonix 6922 Gold Pin - Spacious, clean open sound, bass is sharp and pops (not sure a bass term)
  
 Other Tubes:-
  
   Russian 6H23n-EB - not enough time on this one, but after some hours think it will open up. TBA
  
   JJ Electronic Gold Pin - nice but no Electro-Harmonix
  
 Stock Tub:-  6BZ7 Canada was decent and if did know better would have been fine.
  
 Look at the BELL e88cc tube next for kicks as peeps seem to like this one.
  
 Overall, love the little Amp to introduce tubes, rolling tubes, hearing music in a way it should sound.


----------



## MtnMan307

I'm excited to pick up my K7XX after work today. I should have a good first impression to discuss.


----------



## MtnMan307

I thought the Vali 2 sounded pretty good with the M50x, and it does, but the K7XX is the reason why I bought this amplifier.  I have been listening for most of the evening and this pairing is something else for the price.  My Amperex Orange Label tube showed up today also, rolled that in there.  
  
 If not for the internet and this forum especially, I would probably not have known about this great little tube amp and awesome headphones.


----------



## Faber65

OK gens, now I need your expertize to help me in identifying those two tubes that I received with the Vali 2 (one is the stock and the other one is a spare one).
 Both are 6BZ7/6BQ7A but I wish I knew more about the manufacturers.
 Can you ricognize them?
  



  





  
 Thanks a lot.
 Fab


----------



## MtnMan307

The one on the left in the top photo is the one I got with my amp too.  I also would like to know who made it since it is a pretty good tube.


----------



## Oskari

The Canadian tube was likely made by RVC. The other one... I'd guess Toshiba. (My second guess would be RCA.)


----------



## vcmusik

I also received the one without the Canada marking. Pretty good tube, and I've also not been able to find any info on it. Just got a EI Philips PCC88 off of Ebay. Will post comparisons once I get it.


----------



## MtnMan307

I've only been able to beat it with an Orange Label Amperex for $13 on eBay. I also got an RCA/mullard and a bugle boy for pretty cheap.


----------



## enginepartsguy

. Put two fans from Cooler Guys blowing into my Valhalla 2, USB powered, connected to a switched outlet on my HK3490Z Harmon Kardon receiver. The amp body stays cool. The area right around the tubes is still warm but not hot. The tubes and circutry should last a lot longer as the unit before got brutally hot.


----------



## danypel

someone compared the vali 2 with the bravo ocean? I have the bravo. Is an update if buy the vali 2? Thanks from Argentina.


----------



## Tov1

Hi danypel, I have both. I find the bravo very harsh and fatiguing. No issues with the vali 2. I am thinking of selling the bravo shortly. I also use an HE400i hp.


----------



## danypel

Thanks for the response Tov1. I tell you that I changed the tube stock for rca and zaerix and sounds much warmer. I no longer fatiguing. But beyond that to make a real update you should go for something like valhalla or lyr? I use it with sennheiser HD700. Thank you very much


----------



## gr8soundz

I've seen a couple of reviews with negatives about the Vali 2's preamp out. I also read a few saying the preamp is intended for speaker/monitor use.
  
 Does that mean the Vali 2 is not recommended for use as a tube buffer/preamp for headphones?


----------



## Faber65

gr8soundz said:


> Does that mean the Vali 2 is not recommended for use as a tube buffer/preamp for headphones?




Not for headphones, but for active desktop speakers/monitors.


----------



## h2rulz

faber65 said:


> Not for headphones, but for active desktop speakers/monitors.


 
  
  


gr8soundz said:


> I've seen a couple of reviews with negatives about the Vali 2's preamp out. I also read a few saying the preamp is intended for speaker/monitor use.
> 
> Does that mean the Vali 2 is not recommended for use as a tube buffer/preamp for headphones?


 
  
 I'll have to confirm.
 Vali 2 is a great amp for headphones for the price.
 But, not so much with my Kef speakers. My Valhalla 2 is clearly better in that regard.


----------



## RickB

I found out when I switched the tube from stock to the 6CG7EH that my Audioengine A2 speakers sounded much better through the Vali 2 preamp outs. It's very enjoyable now. Something just didn't sound right (with the speakers) on the stock tube.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Just purchased my Vali2. Can't wait to try it out.


----------



## AviP

I haven't ordered a Vali 2 yet and I was wondering if anybody has some sort of solution to protect the tube. In my case, it'll be in a drawer when I'm not using it (Little kids...) and I don't want it to break...
 Thanks!


----------



## Noremac82

I actually dropped one of my tubes onto a hardwood floor the other day and it didn't break or lose vacuum. They are actually tougher than you would think. If you still need a guard you might be able to remove the cover, drill some holes and mount one of those metal guards. I wouldn't worry too much about it. You could also put out a bounty that the first kid who touches it doesn't get birthday presents for 3 years!


----------



## AviP

noremac82 said:


> This was my first amp and I have had it for a couple months. I am sure there are better amps out there but I can say this is the one that got me hooked. You can always tell when I like something because I have to make it my own so mine received a paint job and a new volume knob.i also replaced the stock tube with a Pope PCC88 which is supposed to be the same as an Amperex Bugle Boy, just under a different name. I don't know if that is true but it made a world of difference. It really brought out the highs and cleared up the sound over the entire spectrum. I have a Golden Lion tube also and to me it has a darker sound but still clear. I am going to stick with the Pope tube for now though.
> 
> I also replaced all the electrolytic caps with Silmic II's of equivalent size and rating. This made a world of difference in the sound quality after they got broken in. The caps are much larger than original so they are mounted off the PCB on a piece of prototype board. I can still get the cover back on it though. I am not sure the upgrade was worth the trouble and voiding the warranty but I am in the process of learning about tube amps so it was worth it to me. I have my eyes on a couple more components in there that might need to be upgraded just to see how it change the sound.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds interesting!
 Can you post pics of the inside and outside?
 Bonus points if you have before and after pics


----------



## nwavesailor

avip said:


> I haven't ordered a Vali 2 yet and I was wondering if anybody has some sort of solution to protect the tube. In my case, it'll be in a drawer when I'm not using it (Little kids...) and I don't want it to break...
> Thanks!


 
 If stored in a drawer, why not just remove the tube and insert it back in place when you have your next listening session. The stock tube can be bought all day long on E-Bay for less than $10 unless you spring for a better tube........and most of us do!
  
 I can understand a concern with glass hazards and little ones, but don't sweat the tube.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

nwavesailor said:


> The stock tube can be bought all day long on E-Bay for less than $10 unless you spring for a better tube........and most of us do!


 
   
I'll be looking for good recommendations soon. I will be using the Pre-Out to power my Audioengine A2+ and the amp to power my Oppo PM-3 and HE-400i. I currently have the JDSLabs Element, but do not enjoy the dry sound.


----------



## RickB

waytoocrazy said:


> I'll be looking for good recommendations soon. I will be using the Pre-Out to power my Audioengine A2+ and the amp to power my Oppo PM-3 and HE-400i. I currently have the JDSLabs Element, but do not enjoy the dry sound.


 

 The 6CG7EH sounds a lot better with my A2s than the stock tube does.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

rickb said:


> The 6CG7EH sounds a lot better with my A2s than the stock tube does.


 

 I will definitely look into that tube. Does the volume pot adjust the volume on the speakers at all?


----------



## RickB

waytoocrazy said:


> I will definitely look into that tube. Does the volume pot adjust the volume on the speakers at all?


 
  
 Yes it does. Very handy with the A2s having the volume knob on the back of the left speaker. I have the volume on the speakers themselves at 2 o'clock and control the volume from the amp.


----------



## rgmffn

waytoocrazy said:


> I'll be looking for good recommendations soon. I will be using the Pre-Out to power my Audioengine A2+ and the amp to power my Oppo PM-3 and HE-400i. I currently have the JDSLabs Element, but do not enjoy the dry sound.


 

  I have to recommend the BEL E88CC whenever someone asks for a recommendation. It's a bit expensive at $69 (what I paid) but worth every penny if you ask me.  I have about a half dozen other different tubes and the BEL is head and shoulders above them all. It just wows me... every time!  I just re-cabled my HE400i's with some Mogami wire (big improvement) and that really lets you hear every nuance of the Vali 2 / tube combination. Can't recommend it enough.


----------



## Drunkbag

I've got the Vali 2 a couple of months ago, and it makes my DT 990's treble a little bit less ear piercing
 I got it with a US made Philco Tube and I'm quite happy with it


----------



## WayTooCrazy

rickb said:


> Yes it does. Very handy with the A2s having the volume knob on the back of the left speaker. I have the volume on the speakers themselves at 2 o'clock and control the volume from the amp.


 
  
 That is AWESOME! Definitely selling the Element now!


rgmffn said:


> I have to recommend the BEL E88CC whenever someone asks for a recommendation. It's a bit expensive at $69 (what I paid) but worth every penny if you ask me.  I have about a half dozen other different tubes and the BEL is head and shoulders above them all. It just wows me... every time!  I just re-cabled my HE400i's with some Mogami wire (big improvement) and that really lets you hear every nuance of the Vali 2 / tube combination. Can't recommend it enough.


 
 That is a bit expensive, considering the cost of the amp, but if it does indeed give it that much increase in sound, I might just do it. Is it a balanced Triode?


----------



## Noremac82

@AviP I will definitely post some once I am off my probationary period and can post pics. I don't have any before pics but everything looked exactly as it does on the schiit website, no differences at all from what I could tell. They used Nichicon electrolytic caps throughout, 470uF 50V PW series for power an 470uF 35V FW series for the signal. I am at work and going from memory right now. I will find the ones I removed and check when I get home and correct this post if I am wrong. 

Edit: Well I was almost half right. It has a 220uF 100V Nichicon VY series and had 3x 470uF 50V Nichicon PS series electrolytic caps on the power supply. I was right about the signal caps though. They were Nichicon 470uF 35V FW series electrolytic. I didnt replace the 220uF cap because i did the same thing when ordering replacements as i did here, i overlooked it so i have an extra Silmic laying around here somewhere. I dont know if there is room for a 100V Silmic II in there, that thing would be huge so it might not get replaced unless i decide to start running it without the cover. I dont really see that happening so it is what it is until it goes bad or something, then i will think about it some more. 

Getting the gigantic Silmic's in there wasn't easy but it's doable. I was concerned that positioning them like I did would cause noise issues but from what I can tell on the oscope the output signal is still as clean as original, maybe even cleaner. They seemed to open up the soundstage somewhat and make the sound cleaner or maybe more crisp. I am not up to date on all of the correct audio analysis adjectives so simply put, it was an improvement in my opinion. 

I received a Schiit LISST SS tube yesterday and I am liking it pretty well so far. I still prefer the tube sound for music but I use the amp during gaming and didn't want to be racking up hours on my tubes so I picked up the LISST. It's pretty well made so it's another option if you are worried about breaking tubes. It does have a different sound though. Not bad, just different.

My Modi 2U arrived with the LISST and all is set up and running together now. I have to say, for what I have in the whole setup, I am extremely pleased with the sound I am getting. I could have spent thousands more and honestly probably wouldn't be enjoying that equipment nearly as much as I am this setup. For the price I just can't speak highly enough about it. I am in it, mod components and all, around 400 (not including the HD650's I have on order) I think right now and couldn't be happier. I have a colorful Frankenstein Schiit Stack right now and I love it. 

My HD650's should be here tomorrow and then it on. I am truly having a lot of fun with this amp though. My warranty is completely shot but I am OK with that, if something goes wrong at this point I will just fix it myself I guess . 

I haven't changed any values of components yet, just different brands. I have thought about putting some different resistors in a couple spots but I don't think it's worth the effort at this point because I really like the sound I am getting out of it. Just wish I had a more expensive amp in order to do the Pepsi challenge with my changes to see how it stands up against something supposedly higher end. One day I suppose, one day


----------



## AviP

drunkbag said:


> I've got the Vali 2 a couple of months ago, and it makes my DT 990's treble a little bit less ear piercing
> I got it with a US made Philco Tube and I'm quite happy with it



Those are the cans I'm considering it for. Which version do you have? I have the 250Ohm pro.
Do you mean that that's the tube that Schiit sent it to you with? Or you bought that tube?


----------



## Drunkbag

avip said:


> Those are the cans I'm considering it for. Which version do you have? I have the 250Ohm pro.
> Do you mean that that's the tube that Schiit sent it to you with? Or you bought that tube?


 

 Yeah, I got the 250 Pro's too
 And that's the tube Schiit sent the amp with


----------



## AviP

drunkbag said:


> Yeah, I got the 250 Pro's too
> And that's the tube Schiit sent the amp with



That's great!
Now I just have to explain to the wife why I "need" another amp


----------



## Drunkbag

It might be an overkill for those headphones though
 I could drive them through my computer with no problem
 I bought the Schiit Stack so I could replace the 990's, perhaps the HD 650's


----------



## gr8soundz

noremac82 said:


> I received a Schiit LISST SS tube yesterday and I am liking it pretty well so far. I still prefer the tube sound for music but I use the amp during gaming and didn't want to be racking up hours on my tubes so I picked up the LISST. It's pretty well made so it's another option if you are worried about breaking tubes. It does have a different sound though. Not bad, just different.
> 
> My Modi 2U arrived with the LISST and all is set up and running together now. I have to say, for what I have in the whole setup, I am extremely pleased with the sound I am getting.


 
  
 Does the Vali 2 still sound "tubey" with the LISST?
  
 Thinking about getting that combo. Want a tube sound but not a fan of (potentially) delicate tubes and shorter their shorter lifespans.
  
 Schiit instead recommends the Magni 2 Uber for all ss but I'm still wondering if the lisst makes enough of a difference.


----------



## rgmffn

waytoocrazy said:


> That is a bit expensive, considering the cost of the amp, but if it does indeed give it that much increase in sound, I might just do it. Is it a balanced Triode?


 
   Yeah, a bit expensive I guess.  But I have twice that much invested in all the other tubes.  I'm trying to save you money!   It's a fun game.  I always try to squeeze every bit of performance out of every system/setup I build. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Yes, it's a balanced triode. Upscale Audio is where I got mine.  I got the gold grade.  They state.. *Gold grade -* Low noise and microphonics with a triode balance typically between 15% and 20%, but may be higher depending on available stock.
  
 I'm sure you'll enjoy your Vali 2.  It's a great little amp and scales very well with these select NOS tubes.  It's an overachiever for sure.  It's a keeper! I'll not likely replace it for a long time to come.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

I like the price of this tube! 
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/JJ-E88CC-6922-Gold


----------



## rgmffn

waytoocrazy said:


> I like the price of this tube!
> http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/JJ-E88CC-6922-Gold


 

 I have that tube, but not in the gold.  It's one of my least favorites. Pretty laid back.  [shrug]


----------



## WayTooCrazy

rgmffn said:


> I have that tube, but not in the gold.  It's one of my least favorites. Pretty laid back.  [shrug]


 

 It was more in jest than anything.  In all truthfulness though, How is this tube, and is the vendor a safe place to purchase from?


----------



## nwavesailor

waytoocrazy said:


> It was more in jest than anything.  In all truthfulness though, How is this tube, and is the vendor a safe place to purchase from?


 

 Can't comment on this particular Mullard (generally I have found Mullard's a bit 'polite' for my tastes) but this is a 'Made in Holland' not the UK 6DJ8 and it is made in Heerlen and likely Amperex / Philips. Look carefully at the code etched in the glass. The symbol that looks like a triangle denotes where it was made.
  
 I can say that Brendan at Tube World has what he says he has, yes....... at top $$$, but you will get exactly what he says.
  
 You will get what Kevin at Upscale Audio advertises as well and also at top $$$.  I wouldn't be too excited to buy a triode at 15-20% plate to plate.
  
 You can get great buys on E-Bay or get screwed. Tube World and Upscale do testing most E-Bay sellers do not do and that costs. No affiliation with either, just know what they sell is the real deal.............no pun intended!


----------



## rgmffn

^^ Thanks for your insight. Yeah, the BEL is a Philips clone. The Mullard is likely to be different.  
  
 Edit to add:  And also, the BEL is smaller around than all my other 6922s, which are all the same "usual' circumference.
  
  
 sp


----------



## WayTooCrazy

rgmffn said:


> ^^ Thanks for your incite. Yeah, the BEL is a Philips clone. The Mullard is likely to be different.
> 
> Edit to add:  And also, the BEL is smaller around than all my other 6922s, which are all the same "usual' circumference.


 

 So, is this the tube I should be buying?


----------



## rgmffn

waytoocrazy said:


> So, is this the tube I should be buying?


 

 Well, that's the one I got, yes.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

rgmffn said:


> Well, that's the one I got, yes.


 

 Sweet! $80 later, but it is on its way.


----------



## rgmffn

waytoocrazy said:


> Sweet! $80 later, but it is on its way.


 
  
 Where's the thumbs up emoji..  We all wanna hear what you think.  Now the wait.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

rgmffn said:


> Where's the thumbs up emoji..  We all wanna hear what you think.  Now the wait.


 

 Lol. I haven't even received the amp yet.
  
 What is everyone feeding their Vali 2 with? I don't have a Modi.  I was going to use my Cambridge DacMagic XS for now (while I try and dump the Element). I figure I'd probably do a Modi 2U at some point (like next pay period). Need to save up my MAD money again.


----------



## rgmffn

waytoocrazy said:


> Lol. I haven't even received the amp yet.


 

 Haha... Next you're gonna want to re-cable those 400i's.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

rgmffn said:


> Haha... Next you're gonna want to re-cable those 400i's.


 

 Ummm, Connectors and cables are already on the slow ship from China (have been for 3 weeks now). I wanted something "reasonable" state side (pretty connectors), but those two don't normally go together.


----------



## rgmffn

waytoocrazy said:


> Ummm, Connectors and cables are already on the slow ship from China (have been for 3 weeks now). I wanted something "reasonable" state side (pretty connectors), but those two don't normally go together.


 

 Tell me about it.  I settled for ugly, but effective on the connectors.  HP side that is. 
  
 But oh what a sweet improvement it made.  It exceeded my expectations. And good for you. (where's that thumbs up..)


----------



## Noremac82

gr8soundz said:


> Does the Vali 2 still sound "tubey" with the LISST?
> 
> Thinking about getting that combo. Want a tube sound but not a fan of (potentially) delicate tubes and shorter their shorter lifespans.
> 
> Schiit instead recommends the Magni 2 Uber for all ss but I'm still wondering if the lisst makes enough of a difference.


 
 No, not really.  I am not saying it is a bad sound though.  I am by no means an expert in tube amps but it seems like, from what I have read, if you are looking to get the tube sound you really need to get a tube amp.  The Vali2 is not a true tube amp either, its a tube hybrid.  It has a tube in its pregain stage (i think thats what its called) but the gain is handled by SS components.  The LISST just replaces the tube with more SS components which gives you a fully SS amp.
  
 I was telling a gentleman earlier that the tubes are not nearly as delicate as I thought they would be.  I expected the glass to be somewhat like a thick light bulb but instead is much more robust than i imagined.  I have dropped one on my hardwood floor and it is fine.  Now you couldnt hit one with a hammer or anything but you shouldnt have any concern over breaking one during general use or swapping the tube.  I am sure they will break but if you are careful with them you would be fine. 
  
 As far as lifespan, the Vali2 is not pushing the tube anywhere near its maximum usable voltage.  I am guessing this should, in theory, lead to a longer lifespan. Someone with more experience than me would have to confirm that.  They do use the normal 6.3V for the heaters so I assume if something were to go it would probably be this since it is 6.3V whether you drive the tube at 50V or 200V.  We are talking failures after thousands of hours though.  I think the tubes I have are rated for 2000.  I dont think that is an average either.  I think it means they could go longer but they are built to last at least that long.  That is a lot of listening (83.3 days straight) and as long as you are turning it off between listening sessions, they should last you for quite some time.  Thats assuming you do not get a dud but early life failures are a possibility with any electronic component, its just part of the game. The bigger concern in my opinion would be not if they would wear out but how many different ones you end up purchasing to find the sound you are looking for!!!  There are so many!!!  Just make sure you get one that isnt outside of the specs they recomend on their website. 
  
 I do not have enough experience in this hobby to make recommendations on anything.  All I can tell you is that I really like my Modi2U/Vali2 combo.  I came home from work to a pleasant surprise today too, my HD650's were here a day earlier than i expected.  I have spent the past 2 hours listening to some of my favorite albums and I am hearing sounds in these songs that I have never heard before.  I have swapped back and forth between my Pope PCC88 and the LISST and honestly I do not know which I like better.  They both sound very good and I could see where they would each shine on different genre's.  I really like the tubes when listening to acoustic.  I listened to the Alice in Chains Unplugged session and with closed eyes and a little imagination, I got the feeling I was sitting in the crowd.  Well that was up until my dog started barking and I learned just how much you can hear with open back headphones.  The LISST seems to do better with songs that have more 'going on' if that makes any sense.  I was listening to Primus' Fizzle Fry and enjoyed the sound more with the LISST than the tubes.  Honestly it is just your preference because neither sound bad.  The tube did have a little trouble with songs that have distortion on the guitars but I think I have read that is a potential with all tube amps.  Distortion is a kind of overamplification to begin with so i guess it doesnt like to be ran through a tube and be amplified again?!?  Again, it didnt sound bad it just didnt sound as clear as other instruments.
  
 I would just tell you to just get one and try it out.  I am glad i chose the Vali2 though but as introductory amps, and at the price, I feel very confident saying I dont think you would not be disappointed with either one.


----------



## Noremac82

waytoocrazy said:


> Lol. I haven't even received the amp yet.
> 
> What is everyone feeding their Vali 2 with? I don't have a Modi.  I was going to use my Cambridge DacMagic XS for now (while I try and dump the Element). I figure I'd probably do a Modi 2U at some point (like next pay period). Need to save up my MAD money again.


 
 I started off using a little turtle beach headphone DAC that I gave like 20 bucks for shipped.  I believe it is called the DDS.  It had some virtual surround sound fancyness built in that I really thought I needed at the time.  Turns out virtual surround sound is code word for sound coming from the bottom of a steel drum that is under a foot of water.  Needless to say i didnt use that function for very long.  In normal stereo mode though it sounded pretty good.  Not nearly as good at the Modi2U but again it was 20 bucks.  It had USB and optical input along with a bass boost and that lovely virtual surround sound.  It has a 3.5mm output jack and I think it was capable of decoding like 24/44 maybe so not terribly shabby for the price.  It was a good starter DAC and it got me by for a couple months until I could get something better.  
  
 I got a Modi2U in recently and it is an improvement.  I dont have any high bitrate, lossless files so I am not sure I am getting the full benefit but I do notice an improvement in the sound.  I seem to be noticing it more when playing XBox than I do when listening to music though.  Just let me know if you want it and I will see if I can find it.  I havent had it unhooked for long but I got so much stuff delivered recently I dont really know where anything is right now.  I can handle having this kind of problem though, it means i got new stuff!!!!
  
 Shoot me a PM and if I can figure out what I did with it, I will throw it in the mail for you if you are needing one to get you by until you can get something better.  It uses miniUSB not micro so if you plan on using the USB input you will need a USB to miniUSB data cable.  I can not speak to how it works, or if it does work, with a USB input because I never tried it.  I only used optical and it was plug an play for me.  I dont have a hard copy but the users manual was pretty easy to find online.  If your going optical then you should be able to get away with a cable that has power only, mine is a data cable so I cant confirm that either.  Only stipulation will be that when you are done with it you have to give it to someone else that is getting started   Or you can use it for a coaster, doesnt matter to me.  I will be happy for someone to get some use out of it and it not be here where I have to find a place for it once I do come across it again lol.


----------



## gr8soundz

noremac82 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks so much for that.
  
 True, based on everything I've read, can't beat the Vali 2 for price/performance. Plus, for full solid state, it just occurred to me I could buy a Magni 2 for the same price as the LISST tubes.
  
 I still have some time to decide on the Vali 2 or put those funds toward a full tube (not hybrid) amp.


----------



## Noremac82

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks so much for that.
> 
> True, based on everything I've read, can't beat the Vali 2 for price/performance. Plus, for full solid state, it just occurred to me I could buy a Magni 2 for the same price as the LISST tubes.
> 
> I still have some time to decide on the Vali 2 or put those funds toward a full tube (not hybrid) amp.


 
 the price they have listed on the site is for 2 of the LISST tubes.  You would only need one with the Vali2 and its only $50 plus shipping.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

noremac82 said:


> I started off using a little turtle beach headphone DAC that I gave like 20 bucks for shipped.  I believe it is called the DDS.  It had some virtual surround sound fancyness built in that I really thought I needed at the time.  Turns out virtual surround sound is code word for sound coming from the bottom of a steel drum that is under a foot of water.  Needless to say i didnt use that function for very long.  In normal stereo mode though it sounded pretty good.  Not nearly as good at the Modi2U but again it was 20 bucks.  It had USB and optical input along with a bass boost and that lovely virtual surround sound.  It has a 3.5mm output jack and I think it was capable of decoding like 24/44 maybe so not terribly shabby for the price.  It was a good starter DAC and it got me by for a couple months until I could get something better.
> 
> I got a Modi2U in recently and it is an improvement.  I dont have any high bitrate, lossless files so I am not sure I am getting the full benefit but I do notice an improvement in the sound.  I seem to be noticing it more when playing XBox than I do when listening to music though.  Just let me know if you want it and I will see if I can find it.  I havent had it unhooked for long but I got so much stuff delivered recently I dont really know where anything is right now.  I can handle having this kind of problem though, it means i got new stuff!!!!
> 
> Shoot me a PM and if I can figure out what I did with it, I will throw it in the mail for you if you are needing one to get you by until you can get something better.  It uses miniUSB not micro so if you plan on using the USB input you will need a USB to miniUSB data cable.  I can not speak to how it works, or if it does work, with a USB input because I never tried it.  I only used optical and it was plug an play for me.  I dont have a hard copy but the users manual was pretty easy to find online.  If your going optical then you should be able to get away with a cable that has power only, mine is a data cable so I cant confirm that either.  Only stipulation will be that when you are done with it you have to give it to someone else that is getting started   Or you can use it for a coaster, doesnt matter to me.  I will be happy for someone to get some use out of it and it not be here where I have to find a place for it once I do come across it again lol.


 
 Amazing offer and I truly appreciate! I wish there were more people in the community that are willing to do the same thing. I've given away custom cables that I've made from IEM cables to Headphone cables (all done with Mogami though). I'm actually ok. The DacMagic XS is a nice sounding DAC that is MicroUSB and running 24/192. I've used it with my Computer and off of my phone with an OTG cable I built. Again, thank you so much for the offer!


----------



## enginepartsguy

Do yourself a favor and get the Vahalla 2, I did 2 years ago. Wired it in between my preamp out to amp in on my Hk3490z and my SEA 7 graphic eqalizer and never looked back. Have some of that tubey sound on everything, including television. All of my headphones, 17 so far, all have had dramatic improvement in sound quality. To me, go all one way or the other, forget hybrid!


----------



## Tuneslover

avip said:


> I haven't ordered a Vali 2 yet and I was wondering if anybody has some sort of solution to protect the tube. In my case, it'll be in a drawer when I'm not using it (Little kids...) and I don't want it to break...
> Thanks!



Put it back into the tube box assuming it came with one. I've used those paper coin things (that you roll up and take to the bank) to transport tubes that I pulled out of my parents old HiFi.


----------



## Tuneslover

waytoocrazy said:


> I like the price of this tube!
> http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/JJ-E88CC-6922-Gold



I bought this tube from thetubestore.com (actually I dropped in and bought it directly from them) and really like how it sounds. I didn't get the gold version though. The only thing I don't like is a bit of hum it gives off when I set my Vali2 into hi gain. I also bought the Electro Harmonix 6922 from them and it's too dark and muddying sounding to me.

My setup is X5ii coaxial out > Bifrost 4490 > V2 > HD650.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

tuneslover said:


> I bought this tube from thetubestore.com (actually I dropped in and bought it directly from them) and really like how it sounds. I didn't get the gold version though. The only thing I don't like is a bit of hum it gives off when I set my Vali2 into hi gain. I also bought the Electro Harmonix 6922 from them and it's too dark and muddying sounding to me.
> 
> My setup is X5ii coaxial out > Bifrost 4490 > V2 > HD650.


 
 Doh! I already spent $80 on another tube. I can't look anymore... I looked over at my JDSLabs Element and then my DacMagic XS; then figured. O'well. I just purchased the Modi 2U a few minutes ago (wife is going to beat me!)


----------



## Noremac82

waytoocrazy said:


> Amazing offer and I truly appreciate! I wish there were more people in the community that are willing to do the same thing. I've given away custom cables that I've made from IEM cables to Headphone cables (all done with Mogami though). I'm actually ok. The DacMagic XS is a nice sounding DAC that is MicroUSB and running 24/192. I've used it with my Computer and off of my phone with an OTG cable I built. Again, thank you so much for the offer!


 
 Not a problem at all.  I dont mind helping people out when I can.  I never know when I might need some help myself so I try to keep the old cosmic brownie point counter in the black!
  
 I have looked around to see if i can find what the original tube is that shipped with my amp but no luck.  It just says Micro in probably 15mm tall blue letters.  Below that it says electron tube in smaller blue letters.  The only other marking is 7-65 and I am thinking that might be a date code or something and this is also in blue.  It also has 6BZ7 in black which is the model I am assuming.  Oh and it has steel pins.  Not any other distinguishing marks that I know to look for.  Does anyone know who made this tube and anything about it?  It served its purpose until I got some other, better sounding tubes.  
  
 My tube collection as of right now, in the order I acquired them:
  
 1.  Unknowns Tube that shipped with amp.  Sounds very restricted compared to my other tubes.  However, before i got the other tubes in and didnt know any different, I thought this tube was great.  So its a good stock tube and has become the one I put in there when doing any modifications or measurements.  Dont want a probe to slip and short the pins of one of my better tubes.  I dont know if you can fry a tube the same way you can an IC so I am going to assume that you can and do my best to not to do anything that could compromise it.  I am sure the magic smoke inside these has a higher level of magic than I am used to dealing with so I am doing my best to keep it trapped behind the glass where it belongs!!
 2.  Genalex E88CC/6922 Gold Lion (Gold Pin version)-  Overall good sound and much better than the stock tube.  I feel like it gives the audio a slightly dark tone but the soundstage is nice.  I now use this one when listening to blues or even some acoustic stuff. For the price and availability though, i think it is probably a nice upgrade from stock for anyone wanting to get a tube collections going.
 3.  Pope PCC88-  by far, my favorite so far.  I am not one to feel obligated to like it just because it cost more.  If it was bad I would say it was bad and move on but its not.  I purchased this tube from Upscale audio and had a wonderful experience ordering from them and will probably order from them again in the future.  Like a member said in an earlier post, they are slightly more expensive but you get exactly what they say you are going to get.  This tube has a much cleaner an open sound than the others.  I have used it for everything from metal to watching the news and was unaware of any issues until I got the LISST (more on that below).  This tube is supposed to be the same as the Amperex Bugle boy.  Same MFG site in Holland, line and everything, just sold under a different brand.  I can not confirm this or deny it and havent really tried because it sounds good and was fairly cheap compared to other more recognizable tubes.  
 4.  Schiit LISST-  definity not a tube sound but a good sound.  I was unaware that all of my tubes were adding a little bit of distortion to any music that already had distortion in it.  Once i received this I noticed the improvement.  It is much cleaner and crisp sounding than the tubes but that doenst mean the tubes sound bad.  Just means they sound different.  I now use this for gaming, watching TV and movies and for listening to heavier music due to its ability to reproduce all sounds with no distortion or too much tubyness.  
  
 I am not sure which tube is next up on my list to try because I havent really looked in the past couple weeks.  I would really like to see how one of the CCa tubes sound in it but cant justify spending that kind of money on a tube right now.  I think I am going to try and find some more that are like the Pope tube.  One that is cheaper but comparable to some more popular tube model.  My purchase will most likely be from Upscale again so I guess i am limited to whatever they have in stock at the time.  I will update this list if I get a new one.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Well, I just received the stack. Not broken in and all... and I'm already much happier than when I had the JDS Labs Element!


----------



## sheldaze

waytoocrazy said:


> Well, I just received the stack. Not broken in and all... and I'm already much happier than when I had the JDS Labs Element!


 
 Congrats!
  
 And any comments, for those listening in on the line, what your take is - deltas between the JDS Labs The Element and what you're hearing now in your Schiit stack? I too made the migration, though a little more slowly, through a few iterations. I think people might have an interest in your direct path migration, and the deltas you are hearing?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

sheldaze said:


> Congrats!
> 
> And any comments, for those listening in on the line, what your take is - deltas between the JDS Labs The Element and what you're hearing now in your Schiit stack? I too made the migration, though a little more slowly, through a few iterations. I think people might have an interest in your direct path migration, and the deltas you are hearing?


 

 To be honest. I started with a uDac way back in the day. I picked up a K702 and started building and rolling cables. I didn't really like the sound of the uDac with the K702 and was told to try to feed the uDAC into a Little Dot I+. I did that, did some Op-Amp rolling and Tube rolling and enjoyed the sound. I ended up selling that (and wish I hadn't) and used SS for a while. I then started running an iPod 5.5G with my CIEMS and that was a "close" to a tube sound as I could get (outside of my "Denon AVR - which sounds very tubey to me).
  
 To answer your question. I knew I wanted to go back to tubes again, and felt that the Modi/Vali stack would be a nice way to get my feet wet again and would end up being a nice bedside rig when I decide to upgrade. My endgame would be a Woo Audio WA22 and headphones are still undetermined. The Element was a nice clean and "lifeless" amp. It was pretty much purely amplification. I didn't need that as my headphones do not require much (Px200-II, Heir 4.a, PM-3 and 400i). I wanted something with a little more music to it, and the Vali gives that extra little molasses to my notes that I like. Not enough to squash details, but enough to sweeten them up. I actually have a nice little tube coming on Thursday that is supposed to kick the Vali up a notch (BEL E88CC). So in the end, I like the stack better than the Element, and the cost difference is negligible.
  
 So, since I like the Vali and Modi stack already, I decided that I needed an interconnect for them (as they are currently borrowing the ones from my stereo).

 Built using some spare Toxic Cables Silver coated UP-OCC 28AWG IEM cable I had.


----------



## Noremac82

@WayTooCrazy
Very nice. Where did you get those Rca connectors? I have the wire and everything ready to go but can't find connectors. 

Full disclosure: I haven't looked very hard at all.  Been busy with other things.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

noremac82 said:


> @WayTooCrazy
> Very nice. Where did you get those Rca connectors? I have the wire and everything ready to go but can't find connectors.
> 
> Full disclosure: I haven't looked very hard at all.
> ...


 
 Redco audio. They're Neutrik/Rean.


----------



## Noremac82

Oh OK, thank you.  That is actually one of the few places I did look.  For some reason those Neutrik/Rean connectors looked bigger/longer in the pictures on there so I passed on them.  Might need to place an order later today. 
  
 The module weight/available cables is one of my only complaints with the Modi/Vali combo and i am sure the Modi/Magni has the same issue.  Short RCA cables, with any sort of decent quality build materials are usually larger diameter wire thats very stiff and springy.  This leads to the wires having a tendency to move my stack around and get them out of that perfect alignment every time I touch them or move the stack every so slightly.  This in turn drives my OCD into overdrive and I have to spend 5 minutes getting the correct bend in the cable in order to line everything back up to make it a perfectly straight stack again.  The cogs are turning on a way to affix the Modi/Vali or Modi/Magni with a little more rigidity so I dont have to rely on gravity and friction alone.  Using a smaller gauge, shorter run (6in max), home made cable like you have made should help with this quite a bit.  I would still like to have some kind of mechanical attachment that holds the pair together.  Either way, making new cables is a step in the right direction.  
  
 My only concern with a mechanical "frame" is grounding.  I dont think it is a huge concern but if I used metal it could potentially create some extra noise if the frame is not grounded.  I have thought about using acetal or some other plastic, maybe a block of PTFE but that could get expensive pretty quickly.  I have some CAD drawings of a couple different ways of doing this, just need to get the old mill fired up an make a couple of them and see which ones work the best.  There just isnt enough time in a day to do everything I want to do, stupid work and sleep take up way too much of it!! The OEM should go ahead and make one so they can keep their Schiit Straight!!!  <---(Check it out, my bad pun game is on point today!!)  Then I could just buy one and not have to make it myself.  Hint Hint!!  I think people would gladly purchase it for 10 or 15 bucks to keep their stacks from sliding all over the desk every time they touch it.  This might not completely solve the issue but is a step in the right direction. The little rubber feet just dont cut the mustard, or maybe I just need to cut back on the furniture polish.


----------



## Tuneslover

noremac82 said:


> Oh OK, thank you.  That is actually one of the few places I did look.  For some reason those Neutrik/Rean connectors looked bigger/longer in the pictures on there so I passed on them.  Might need to place an order later today.
> 
> The module weight/available cables is one of my only complaints with the Modi/Vali combo and i am sure the Modi/Magni has the same issue.  Short RCA cables, with any sort of decent quality build materials are usually larger diameter wire thats very stiff and springy.  This leads to the wires having a tendency to move my stack around and get them out of that perfect alignment every time I touch them or move the stack every so slightly.  This in turn drives my OCD into overdrive and I have to spend 5 minutes getting the correct bend in the cable in order to line everything back up to make it a perfectly straight stack again.  The cogs are turning on a way to affix the Modi/Vali or Modi/Magni with a little more rigidity so I dont have to rely on gravity and friction alone.  Using a smaller gauge, shorter run (6in max), home made cable like you have made should help with this quite a bit.  I would still like to have some kind of mechanical attachment that holds the pair together.  Either way, making new cables is a step in the right direction.
> 
> My only concern with a mechanical "frame" is grounding.  I dont think it is a huge concern but if I used metal it could potentially create some extra noise if the frame is not grounded.  I have thought about using acetal or some other plastic, maybe a block of PTFE but that could get expensive pretty quickly.  I have some CAD drawings of a couple different ways of doing this, just need to get the old mill fired up an make a couple of them and see which ones work the best.  There just isnt enough time in a day to do everything I want to do, stupid work and sleep take up way too much of it!! The OEM should go ahead and make one so they can keep their Schiit Straight!!!  <---(Check it out, my bad pun game is on point today!!)  Then I could just buy one and not have to make it myself.  Hint Hint!!  I think people would gladly purchase it for 10 or 15 bucks to keep their stacks from sliding all over the desk every time they touch it.  This might not completely solve the issue but is a step in the right direction. The little rubber feet just dont cut the mustard, or maybe I just need to cut back on the furniture polish.



For short interconnects just use an elastic band to keep the cables nicely folded. Keeps "The Stack" nicely aligned.


----------



## Noremac82

tuneslover said:


> For short interconnects just use an elastic band to keep the cables nicely folded. Keeps "The Stack" nicely aligned.




Brilliant. I think it was DaVinci that said "simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" or something along those lines. I had tried zip ties but that didnt allow the wires to give any so the stack still slid around. I never thought about using a rubber band though,i will give it a try when I get home. Thanks for the suggestion. You might have just saved me from countless hours of having to look at a crooked stack. I would go with the "spread" option and eliminate this conundrum all together but that doesn't work on my desk. I don't know why but it really bugs me!


----------



## Tuneslover

noremac82 said:


> Brilliant. I think it was DaVinci that said "simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" or something along those lines. I had tried zip ties but that didnt allow the wires to give any so the stack still slid around. I never thought about using a rubber band though,i will give it a try when I get home. Thanks for the suggestion. You might have just saved me from countless hours of having to look at a crooked stack. I would go with the "spread" option and eliminate this conundrum all together but that doesn't work on my desk. I don't know why but it really bugs me!




I can't take credit for the rubber band idea...I saw it on YouTube being done by no other than the experts themselves, namely Mike & Jason.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

noremac82 said:


> The cogs are turning on a way to affix the Modi/Vali or Modi/Magni with a little more rigidity so I dont have to rely on gravity and friction alone.


 
 Ask and you shall receive... Schiit bridge.


----------



## Noremac82

waytoocrazy said:


> Ask and you shall receive... Schiit bridge.


 
 25 bucks shipped, thats definitely worth checking out.  Its the exact opposite of what I was envisioning as a solution too.  Thats the old two birds one stone thing there.  Make the connection and providing mechanical rigidity at the same time.  I cant see any reason why it would degrade the sound quality unless its extremely low build quality.  Even then its what, maybe a 25-30mm trace between jacks?  How much noise could it honestly pick up in that short of a run under normal listening conditions.  Yea sure, you could set it beside a big 3 phase motor and maybe run into an ambient EMI issue but thats not a normal condition in my opinion.


----------



## rootscript

noremac82 said:


> 25 bucks shipped, thats definitely worth checking out.  Its the exact opposite of what I was envisioning as a solution too.  Thats the old two birds one stone thing there.  Make the connection and providing mechanical rigidity at the same time.  I cant see any reason why it would degrade the sound quality unless its extremely low build quality.  Even then its what, maybe a 25-30mm trace between jacks?  How much noise could it honestly pick up in that short of a run under normal listening conditions.  Yea sure, you could set it beside a big 3 phase motor and maybe run into an ambient EMI issue but thats not a normal condition in my opinion.


 
 Better to use reasonable quality right angled RCA plugs, maybe something like these: http://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/components/connectors/rca-phono-plugs/switchcraft
  
 You will need to check the length of the RCA plug housing, maybe you can find something shorter, or just use them in an arc shape.
  
 Find a good quality shielded cable, connect the shield braid to the cold connector ONLY at one side, specifically at the amp side (this should give you an effective noise shield)






 
  
 Personally I would go for flexible cable like Klotz MC5000 & MS Audio Star Line, Silver Plated RCA plugs.  Great price, excellent quality, one of the best sounding DIY interconnect cables out there.
  
 I hope it is ok to link to another audio forum?
 http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?33332-MS-Audio-Klotz-MC5000-interconnects-build-offer-for-all-AoS-members


----------



## WayTooCrazy

rgmffn said:


> Well, that's the one I got, yes.


 

 This is EXCITING!

 Just found out some interesting news. I'm a bit tired of switching outputs on my PC (USB for A2+ and Optical for Modi), so I contacted Schiit and found out I could use the "SYS" in reverse. If I leave the volume on full, I can output via Optical from the PC into the Modi. Then from Modi into SYS, from SYS I can have it go to my Vali & A2+. I didn't want to use the Pre-outs on the Vali, as I didn't want to burn out the tube from it always being on while I'm at my desk (and I typically listen to the speakers more than my headphones).


----------



## JennifersYummie

I love the reversed SYS.


----------



## rgmffn

jennifersyummie said:


> I love the reversed SYS.


 

 I use mine that way too.  Have fun, Crazy!


----------



## vcmusik

Happy to report that after a few days of burn-in, my EI Philips PCC88 has really opened up, particularly the bass. I would almost describe it as a little more scooped than the stock tube, but not so much so that the mids get lost. They still shine through, even though the top end is brighter than the stock. I notice a bit more clarity and detail in the instrument separation, particularly for orchestral music, and a slightly bigger soundstage, though not by much.


----------



## Letmebefrank

I also use a sys in reverse as a switch between my headphone amps and my speaker amp.


----------



## pieman3141

What's the clipping point of the Vali 2? I have a variable DAC that I'm using as a preamp, so I've set the Vali 2 at 50% volume, and I'm using the DAC as the actual volume knob (it's analogue). The DAC outputs a max of 2V on the RCA jacks, so I'm lowering that to ... something lower (it's a DacMini, so 2 O'clock is the supposed "unity gain"). Is this a good way to do things? Should I have the volume on the Vali higher or lower?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

What happened to tubes having a nice glow? The 2 tubes I have now glow, but barely. Kind of a let down for me.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

noremac82 said:


> @WayTooCrazy
> Very nice. Where did you get those Rca connectors? I have the wire and everything ready to go but can't find connectors.
> 
> Full disclosure: I haven't looked very hard at all.
> ...


 

 Redco no longer carries them in black/gold (Jerks!), but Mouser does!


----------



## WayTooCrazy

With the Vali2, my Heir Audio 4.a never sounded so sumptuous!


----------



## GravitySmacked

waytoocrazy said:


> Just purchased my Vali2. Can't wait to try it out.




I've done the same today; time to trade in my LittleDot Mk1+


----------



## WayTooCrazy

gravitysmacked said:


> I've done the same today; time to trade in my LittleDot Mk1+


 

 I too had the LD Mk1. I swapped tubes and Op-Amp. It was a nice little amp.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Thanks everyone! I decided to stack my Schiit on my desk too!


----------



## Letmebefrank

waytoocrazy said:


> Thanks everyone! I decided to stack my Schiit on my desk too!



Looks good, what RCAs are you using?


----------



## tdonnellyem

You need a wyrd for that stack!


----------



## WayTooCrazy

letmebefrank said:


> Looks good, what RCAs are you using?


 

 DIY. Mogami and Neutrik/Rean.


 The bottom ones are Toxic Cables, but will be re-purposed into an OTG cable.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

tdonnellyem said:


> You need a wyrd for that stack!


 

 Gonna have to, I have a Mogami USB cable I made, and I think it is susceptible to EMI.


----------



## a7xdeity

Does the vali 2 adequately power the HD-650's? Torn between this and the valhalla 2.. Don't want to spend that much money if it is a "slight" upgrade!


----------



## cishida

a7xdeity said:


> Does the vali 2 adequately power the HD-650's? Torn between this and the valhalla 2.. Don't want to spend that much money if it is a "slight" upgrade!


 

 Both the Vali 2 and Valhalla 2 will more than adequately power HD-650's (true of pretty much any schiit amp except maybe the fulla)
  
 As to whether the Valhalla 2 is worth the price is something only you can answer.
  
 I should note that Valhalla is not just a "big" Vali. Valhalla and Vali are different types of amps (all tube vs tube hybrid). There's lots of information about both on the schiit website and in this thread.


----------



## Faber65

a7xdeity said:


> Does the vali 2 adequately power the HD-650's? Torn between this and the valhalla 2.. Don't want to spend that much money if it is a "slight" upgrade!




IMHO the answer is yes!
But the only judge are your ears.


----------



## h2rulz

a7xdeity said:


> Does the vali 2 adequately power the HD-650's? Torn between this and the valhalla 2.. Don't want to spend that much money if it is a "slight" upgrade!




For me, the Valhalla 2 did make a difference for the HD650. It could depend on the tube but I noticed a clear improvement in the low end and soundstage. 
The soundstage was huge. 

But the Vali 2 is still a great amp to roll tubes and pair with lower impedence headphones.


----------



## HOWIE13

a7xdeity said:


> Does the vali 2 adequately power the HD-650's? Torn between this and the valhalla 2.. Don't want to spend that much money if it is a "slight" upgrade!


 
 For my lower recorded level, higher dynamic, Classical music the Vali2, on high gain, is just adequate but no more with the HD650, and there is little or no headroom. I have the vol pot almost at full turn, at around 3-4pm for most of my Classical music, for realistic level listening. This is using 6DJ8 tubes. 
 Compared to the Project Starlight, which has a bit less output power, the Vali2 does not apparently go as loud, using the same tube. The Starlight has a slightly lower output impedance compared to the Vali2, which might possibly explain some of the difference.
 Overall, I prefer the Starlight for Classical, but the Vali2 should be adequate for most modern genres with the HD650. (My daughter's boy friend's Rammstein CD is certainly powered well enough)


----------



## JennifersYummie

I think the Rammstein CD's come with their own amplifier encoded on the disk.


----------



## HOWIE13

jennifersyummie said:


> I think the Rammstein CD's come with their own amplifier encoded on the disk.


 
 They spontaneously combust too, right in your ears


----------



## pieman3141

Nobody has an answer to the clipping point question yet?


----------



## c61746961

Does it happen in both channels? Perhaps the contact between the jack and plug is rusty and has limited bandwith. Try cleaning the plug with isopropyl alcohol and test again, there are recurrent contact problems with the cup jack.


----------



## HOWIE13

pieman3141 said:


> What's the clipping point of the Vali 2? I have a variable DAC that I'm using as a preamp, so I've set the Vali 2 at 50% volume, and I'm using the DAC as the actual volume knob (it's analogue). The DAC outputs a max of 2V on the RCA jacks, so I'm lowering that to ... something lower (it's a DacMini, so 2 O'clock is the supposed "unity gain"). Is this a good way to do things? Should I have the volume on the Vali higher or lower?


 
 I have done something similar with my M-DAC and Vali2, though it's not my present set-up. Vali2 shouldn't audibly clip with a 2V input as that's an industry standard and my Vali2 doesn't.
 If you want an accurate technical answer to your question I suggest you contact Schiit.
 As to whether it's a good way to do things, there is nothing wrong with what you are doing-I used that set up as I was having balance problems with a few particular recordings and was able to control the volume of each channel separately from the M-DAC. 
 Just experiment, enjoy, and trust your ears to tell you what's right for you.


----------



## RollinHard843

Whoever it was that sang the praises of the Pope pcc88 tube from Upscale Audio, thank you 

I enjoyed the vali 2 with the stock tube and i used a couple cheap upgrades for a while, just so i could really see how tube rolling impacts the sound (i had no idea prior to this amp).

I like the JJ ecc88 (current production) for its soundstage and imaging but sometimes it seemed TOO bright, and i tend to like bright. It also lacked some bottom end but i was okay with that.

The Electro Harmonix 6922 had bottom end and warmth, but the soundstage seemed narrower and a bit less defined. 

I was hoping for something to correct all of these issues and man, the Pope pcc88 DELIVERS. Big soundstage in width and depth, nice imaging, bright but not uncomfortable with Grados, plenty of bass, not muddy. $60 is a lot to pay for a tube but it really was a complete upgrade. I love it with the Grado RS2e now ill have to see how it fares with my LCD2.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

rollinhard843 said:


> I was hoping for something to correct all of these issues and man, the Pope pcc88 DELIVERS. Big soundstage in width and depth, nice imaging, bright but not uncomfortable with Grados, plenty of bass, not muddy. $60 is a lot to pay for a tube but it really was a complete upgrade. I love it with the Grado RS2e now ill have to see how it fares with my LCD2.


 
 I wonder how that compares to the BEL EL88CC I just picked up. I don't have much reference from that to the stock tube, as the stock one was only in my amp for a day or so.


----------



## Noremac82

rollinhard843 said:


> Whoever it was that sang the praises of the Pope pcc88 tube from Upscale Audio, thank you
> 
> I enjoyed the vali 2 with the stock tube and i used a couple cheap upgrades for a while, just so i could really see how tube rolling impacts the sound (i had no idea prior to this amp).
> 
> ...


 
 You sir are correct.  I have an old set of Audio Technica headphones that are as boring as they come and that Pope tube really lights a fire under their hind ends and gets them going.  With the HD650's its a whole new level.  That tube is supposed to be the same as a Amperex Bugle Boy but I dont know.  All I know is it sounds good.  
  
 I got in one of their Amperex 7308's (Green Label) yesterday.  I only had a chance to listen to it for about an hour last night and no direct comparisons just yet.  So far I am liking it though.  It has more of a spacey sound to it if that makes any sense.  I am thinking it will really shine in some Pink Floyd or maybe even something like My Morning Jacket.  Songs that just have that big, open sound that makes you feel tiny and insignificant!  I am going to have some time tonight and in the morning to do a little more analytical listening and will report back maybe Sunday.  I dont get the feeling it is going to like metal but we shall see!
  
 I said this little amp was going to be the root of me spending quite a bit of money and it has not disappointed in that regard so far.  My girlfriend can understand why I am ordering all of these "little light bulb thingys."  My tube budget has not started to pull from my gaming budget and I am completely fine with that!!


----------



## RollinHard843

noremac82 said:


> You sir are correct.  I have an old set of Audio Technica headphones that are as boring as they come and that Pope tube really lights a fire under their hind ends and gets them going.  With the HD650's its a whole new level.  That tube is supposed to be the same as a Amperex Bugle Boy but I dont know.  All I know is it sounds good.
> 
> I got in one of their Amperex 7308's (Green Label) yesterday.  I only had a chance to listen to it for about an hour last night and no direct comparisons just yet.  So far I am liking it though.  It has more of a spacey sound to it if that makes any sense.  I am thinking it will really shine in some Pink Floyd or maybe even something like My Morning Jacket.  Songs that just have that big, open sound that makes you feel tiny and insignificant!  I am going to have some time tonight and in the morning to do a little more analytical listening and will report back maybe Sunday.  I dont get the feeling it is going to like metal but we shall see!
> 
> I said this little amp was going to be the root of me spending quite a bit of money and it has not disappointed in that regard so far.  My girlfriend can understand why I am ordering all of these "little light bulb thingys."  My tube budget has not started to pull from my gaming budget and I am completely fine with that!!




I hope that any want for new tubes for this amp has been pushed back for a long time. Really, ive never heard music sound so good (my only other headphone amp is the original vali). I keep saying that with every little upgrade, but it hasnt been false yet 

Speaking of floyd, the division bell LP reissue sounded so divine with this new tube. Every sound seemed to sing with a renewed sense of detail and realism.


----------



## Noremac82

rollinhard843 said:


> I hope that any want for new tubes for this amp has been pushed back for a long time. Really, ive never heard music sound so good (my only other headphone amp is the original vali). I keep saying that with every little upgrade, but it hasnt been false yet
> 
> Speaking of floyd, the division bell LP reissue sounded so divine with this new tube. Every sound seemed to sing with a renewed sense of detail and realism.





Stick with it man, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the sound you are getting right now. It's on par with the Amperex 7308 from what I can tell so far. I am just not sure this new tube I got is that much better. Don't get me wrong, there is an improvement but not sure it's justified in the price. Maybe on a better setup but not with what I have right now. The main differences I am hearing is in the Soundstage and that open spacey sound that I am not sure how to describe. It's what I would imagine listening to a live show, played at normal volumes (not blow out your eardrums performance volumes) would sound like if it was just me and the band in a large auditorium or arena. It's similar to what the concert hall setting on some digital EQ's sounds like but not as pronounced. It definitely doesn't alter the crispness of the sounds though and all the detail is still there. I was reading earlier that this tube takes some time to break in and the the bass will come on so we shall see. Someone said 30-40hrs so I might just leave it on while at work but I don't know. It sounds good so if it gets better that's just a bonus.

There is no part of me that thinks it will completely replace the Pope tube in my rotation though. I forgot to mention that it seems to have gotten better with some hours on it too. It seemed to open up a little more but that could have been the headphones breaking in too. I didn't isolate and test my variables,tisk tisk tisk haha. The Pope tube just sounds good and in the ends that's all I am really worried about. I only bought the new one to see if there was another level of goodness that could be squeezed out of this rig. There is but I don't know if it's worth the cost of admission. If I had never heard the 7308 I would have been completely happy with the Pope tube. I will however suggest to anyone one of the LISST SS "tubes" though. It gives you a great alternative to the tubes for those certain applications where a tube might have a little trouble. I listen to a lot of Primus and in my opinion none of the tubes I have really do well with Claypool's bass style. It ends up saturating or something and isn't nearly as crisp as with the SS tube. I am not a huge fan of the tube sound with metal music either. It just seems like they loose some of the detail and all of the notes aren't defined as well as they are with the SS tube. It's a good option to have laying around. 

Where I am new at trying to analyze what I am hearing, as opposed to just listening to it, I am still coming up with a Playlist to use during my comparisons. I am trying to get a range of the types of music I listen to but keep it somewhere around 30 minutes or so. I would like to have the first 10 to 15 minutes be the most effective test music too. The rest would just be bonus. Where my listening tastes are so eclectic I am having a hard time narrowing it down. I think I will need to do some editing and make a track that combines the important test portions of each song into a couple tracks. Then if I am ever at an audio meet or something I can play one or two of my test tracks and not be hogging the equipment for a long time. I feel like if I can't make up my mind as to if I like it or not in 15 minutes, then it's probably not leaving a strong enough impression on me to warrant upgrading and I should just move on. Yea I might miss out on something good here and there but I think this approach, as long as my test track is effective, will allow me to form a pretty good opinion on 90% of the stuff out there. No need to spend hours upon hours trying to pick out minute details. In my case that time is better spent enjoying the music  

Bottom line, Keep on rocking the Pope! They weren't kidding when they said it was an often overlooked gem.


----------



## ruleof72

I just joined the Massdrop on the AKG K7XX which I'll use in my office system. Now I need an amp to power it and since I'm a happy Schiit owner (Magni v1) I'm thinking about adding the Vali2 to my collection. It looks like a great way to try out the "tube" sound. Based on what I've seen it looks like it should pair well with the AKG's. Any additional input or issues I should be aware of before I place my order?


----------



## rnros

ruleof72 said:


> I just joined the Massdrop on the AKG K7XX which I'll use in my office system. Now I need an amp to power it and since I'm a happy Schiit owner (Magni v1) I'm thinking about adding the Vali2 to my collection. It looks like a great way to try out the "tube" sound. Based on what I've seen it looks like it should pair well with the AKG's. Any additional input or issues I should be aware of before I place my order?



Sweet little amp. Impressive Schiit. I've used the K7XX with the Vali2 many times. Nice pairing. Very responsive to tube rolling. 
I've come to using it as a first tube test for any new tubes coming in. Reliable and accurate. Connected to my Gumby when I do this, hard to believe it's a $170.
You will not be disappointed. The amp is nice right out of the box but will improve with time. The K7XXs will definitely need some time to sound right.
Enjoy.


----------



## ruleof72

rnros said:


> Sweet little amp. Impressive Schiit. I've used the K7XX with the Vali2 many times. Nice pairing. Very responsive to tube rolling.
> I've come to using it as a first tube test for any new tubes coming in. Reliable and accurate. Connected to my Gumby when I do this, hard to believe it's a $170.
> You will not be disappointed. The amp is nice right out of the box but will improve with time. The K7XXs will definitely need some time to sound right.
> Enjoy.


 
 Thanks for the feedback on the Vali2. For the price it seems like a great value. Regarding the Vali and K7XX "burn in", I have heard they take some time to open up. What has been your experience with them? How many hours are we talking about?


----------



## HOWIE13

I already have a Philips PCC88 so is there any point in me buying a Pope PCC88?
 My understanding was that the Pope is a Philips, re-labelled for the S American market.


----------



## rnros

ruleof72 said:


> Thanks for the feedback on the Vali2. For the price it seems like a great value. Regarding the Vali and K7XX "burn in", I have heard they take some time to open up. What has been your experience with them? How many hours are we talking about?


 

 The K7XX were a disappointment to me on first listen, so I just started burning. I only remember it wasn't quick, meaning 20 or 30 hrs. And it also wasn't a quick change, as in 'opening up.' I would typically target 100 hours to start, and I don't track it too closely. I may have a listen during the burn, may not, depends. If I do and I am not pleased, meaning it's boring or annoying, it just goes back on burn. I try to ignore the process really, I have other things to listen to. I would guess these went well over 100 hours before I was impressed.
 The Vali was nice with just a little burn but it continued to improve and/or impress for awhile. I expect all equipment to need +/- 150 hours to settle in and show it's best.


----------



## Noremac82

howie13 said:


> I already have a Philips PCC88 so is there any point in me buying a Pope PCC88?
> My understanding was that the Pope is a Philips, re-labelled for the S American market.




The only place I have seen this info is on Upscale's website or others referencing the info they found there. However I have not seen it in a datasheet or anything like that. I have looked a little bit but haven't seen anything yet. I haven't heard the Phillips version so I can't compare, I can only speak about the Pope tube. It does sound good,thats all I can say.


----------



## HOWIE13

noremac82 said:


> The only place I have seen this info is on Upscale's website or others referencing the info they found there. However I have not seen it in a datasheet or anything like that. I have looked a little bit but haven't seen anything yet. I haven't heard the Phillips version so I can't compare, I can only speak about the Pope tube. It does sound good,thats all I can say.


 
 Thanks, and the Philips sounds very good too.


----------



## Oskari

howie13 said:


> I already have a Philips PCC88 so is there any point in me buying a Pope PCC88?




A Heerlen tube is a Heerlen tube. Brand is just paint.


----------



## HOWIE13

oskari said:


> A Heerlen tube is a Heerlen tube. Brand is just paint.


----------



## rootscript

pieman3141 said:


> What's the clipping point of the Vali 2? I have a variable DAC that I'm using as a preamp, so I've set the Vali 2 at 50% volume, and I'm using the DAC as the actual volume knob (it's analogue). The DAC outputs a max of 2V on the RCA jacks, so I'm lowering that to ... something lower (it's a DacMini, so 2 O'clock is the supposed "unity gain"). Is this a good way to do things? Should I have the volume on the Vali higher or lower?


 
 No this is not the best way to get the most out of your equipment.  You should always run your DAC at 100%, use the Vali is your main volume control - Does that make sense?


----------



## pieman3141

If the DAC had digital volume control, I'd agree with you and none of this would be an issue. However, the DAC uses analog control, and considering that many DACs output at different voltages (Modi outputs at 1.5V, i-devices output at something even less), I think I need a better explanation regarding why this is a bad idea. Nothing I've read has stated anything otherwise.


----------



## HOWIE13

rootscript said:


> No this is not the best way to get the most out of your equipment.  You should always run your DAC at 100%, use the Vali is your main volume control - Does that make sense?


 
 As a general rule you are correct, as the higher the input the less the amplifier has to amplify the sound and the signal to noise ratio may be minimised.
 However, it also depends on the relationship between the gain of the amplifier to the volume control. In order to make full use of the vol pot, and with some potentiometers to be able to turn the volume control up to a critical point where the two channels are correctly balanced, it may be necessary to attenuate the input signal. That should not have a negative affect on the sound as long as it's not excessively lowered. Many amps have input gain settings to allow you to do this.
 You can also use the DAC as a balance control, if it allows you to alter the output of both channels independently, as with the M-DAC.
 I prefer to let my ears make the decisions in these matters, not conventional wisdom. 
 .


----------



## Noremac82

oskari said:


> A Heerlen tube is a Heerlen tube. Brand is just paint.




Did they only make this one model at that plant or were there others? I am looking for a good article about the plant now. Seems like they had a really good thing going on. I wonder if it was the process, design or the raw materials that led to those tubes kinda standing out against the others from that time. If those people only knew we would be clamoring over their tubes 50 years later. It's pretty interesting stuff.


----------



## Oskari

noremac82 said:


> Did they only make this one model at that plant or were there others? I am looking for a good article about the plant now.




They made many types. Here is a short article about the history of the Heerlen plant.



 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2955#post_10867000 

Update:



 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/8880#post_12474854


----------



## Mumbles06

Getting the most out of my Vali 2 with a Gumby.


----------



## Noremac82

oskari said:


> They made many types. Here is a short article about the history of the Heerlen plant
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2955#post_10867000
> 
> ...




That was an interesting read. I wish it had a little more technical info but that wasn't the subject of that article. I am intrigued by how we can not make tubes today like they did back then. I understand the demand isn't there so people don't invest but you would think someone someplace would make custom tubes of very high quality if it was possible. Yes they would be expensive but people in this hobby would buy them. I guess tube making has gone the way of Damascus steel and building pyramids. It's a lost art.


----------



## Tuneslover

And the "King of the Castle" is...


----------



## serman005

I'm new to this thread--does anyone know how the Vali 2 does with HD650? Thanks!


----------



## Skarecrow77

mumbles06 said:


> Getting the most out of my Vali 2 with a Gumby.


 


 No hate, I love my Vali 2, but that pic feels like you're driving your Ferrari through the Burger King drive through!


----------



## joeexp

skarecrow77 said:


> No hate, I love my Vali 2, but that pic feels like you're driving your Ferrari through the Burger King drive through!


 

 No offence, but don't be fooled by the size of the Vali 2  - It is superior to most amps below the $1000 mark.
 I don't know how you can compare the Vali to a Burger King drive through. Nothing cheap about the sound….


----------



## Tuneslover

joeexp said:


> No offence, but don't be fooled by the size of the Vali 2  - It is superior to most amps below the $1000 mark.
> I don't know how you can compare the Vali to a Burger King drive through. Nothing cheap about the sound….


 
 I too have the Vali 2 and it was being fed by a Bifrost 4490.  It sounded good but for "schiit & giggles" I decided to swap out the V2 for my solid state Lake People G109S to see how it sounds.  Well that was quite a revelation, all of a sudden my 4490 blossomed!  Not only that but the G109S allowed my HE500 & HD650 to come to life and demonstrate to me their full potential!
  
 Don't get me wrong, I love my Vali 2 (my first dabble with a tube hybrid amp) and I certainly plan to keep it...check out it's new home above Post #1240.  However I believe that the V2 was actually "clogging" up the chain in my system.  I think it comes down to component matching in order to get good balance and synergy in the chain.
  
 My Vali 2 is now being paired with a Modi (original) fed by my iMac and it sounds terrific on that system.  Because I have a SYS in this stack I am able to toggle between the V2 and my Magni 2U...fun.


----------



## rootscript

I will put some info in here, hopefully to see if we can shed some more light on this particular issue. General rules to get bit-perfect are general, so there might be other factors at play with different hardware.
  
 Quote:


pieman3141 said:


> If the DAC had digital volume control, I'd agree with you and none of this would be an issue. However, the DAC uses analog control, and considering that many DACs output at different voltages (Modi outputs at 1.5V, i-devices output at something even less), I think I need a better explanation regarding why this is a bad idea. Nothing I've read has stated anything otherwise.


 
 You said previously, that you DAC outputs 2V.  If the music clips when your 2V DAC is at 100%, then reduce the gain of the component that is clipping. What do you suspect is clipping?
So if your amp clips, turn down the amp volume.
 Make sure that you are not boosting the software output dB (sometimes this might happen in eQ settings)
Something that you can try (read it somewhere else) if your DAC clips, try turning down your OS volume to 99% (The only reason to use player or OS attenuation is if your DAC is clipping), small reductions may be sufficient to stop clipping.
  


howie13 said:


> As a general rule you are correct, as the higher the input the less the amplifier has to amplify the sound and the signal to noise ratio may be minimised.
> However, it also depends on the relationship between the gain of the amplifier to the volume control. In order to make full use of the vol pot, and with some potentiometers to be able to turn the volume control up to a critical point where the two channels are correctly balanced, it may be necessary to attenuate the input signal. That should not have a negative affect on the sound as long as it's not excessively lowered. Many amps have input gain settings to allow you to do this.
> You can also use the DAC as a balance control, if it allows you to alter the output of both channels independently, as with the M-DAC.
> I prefer to let my ears make the decisions in these matters, not conventional wisdom.
> .


 
 Generally, bit-perfect is with the DAC at 100%.  I think that you are correct in saying that it depends on the relationship between the gain of the amplifier to the volume control
The Vali 2 has a switch for low gain or high gain, when I run a 2V DAC at 100% I switch the Vali 2 to low gain.
  
If I had a DAC that has a log pot volume control I would bypass mod it.  Most of the time the pots will be 10k sometimes more, but are usually not the best quality carbon pots.
  
 There may be lots of opinions out there, but I'll put in some bits that I read elsewhere (not sure how applicable it is, but might help pieman3141 find the info he needs)
Something else i read somewhere else:
The only reason you would ever want to use software attenuation is if your DAC is clipping or something else weird is going on. This can happen when the D/A chip's tolerances are slighty off; for example, a -0.1dBFS signal might clip the D/A chip.
Other things I have read say that if your sources are compressed, this can lead to clipping too (I have no idea if this is true).
  
This bit of advice seems to a useful explanation:
Every 6 dB of attenuation is equivalent to reducing the bit depth by one. If you started with, say, 16-bit audio and reduced the volume by 12 dB, you'd effectively be listening to 14-bit audio instead. Turn the volume down too much and quality will start to suffer noticeably.
&
to get the highest resolution (bit depth) possible, have an analogue volume control as one of the last things in front of the speakers. Assuming all the devices in your signal path are of more or less comparable quality (i.e. you're not pairing a cheap low-end amplifier with a high-end digital source and DAC), that should give the best audio quality.
  
The Vali isn't the best amp, but it does have gain adjustment, so that is worth adjusting to low gain I think.  If you have to adjust the DAC volume then try the absolute minimum as it will reduce the bit depth, however it seems that pieman3141 issues are firstly appear to be related to clipping when playing at higher volumes; so the question is quality bit depth at normal volume levels, or lower bit depth at higher volumes (without clipping).
  
I hope that helps a little, it depends if you can hear a difference (with your equipment) between an example 16bit & 14bit file I guess;  amp clipping is something that is easier to notice.


----------



## Mumbles06

skarecrow77 said:


> No hate, I love my Vali 2, but that pic feels like you're driving your Ferrari through the Burger King drive through


 
 Sometimes you gotta "have it your way."


----------



## sheldaze

I am currently feeding $3600 worth of DACs into the Vali 2, using it to A-B-C. Neither the amplifier nor I are complaining


----------



## jfoxvol

It's not what you know, it's who you know.  All vintage tubes.  Tested and good.  Sent from a friend.  This will be fun.


----------



## nwavesailor

jfoxvol said:


> It's not what you know, it's who you know.  All vintage tubes.  Tested and good.  Sent from a friend.  This will be fun.


 

 Nice!
  
  Now you need another friend to send you some tested /good 1950-60's NOS 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308's!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jfoxvol

nwavesailor said:


> Nice!
> 
> Now you need another friend to send you some tested /good 1950-60's NOS 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308's!!!!!!!!!!!




Working on it, mate. These were freebies that were lying around. I'll see what a good single malt will get me.


----------



## Noremac82

OK.  It looks like I can post images now so here are some shots of my setup.  I changed things up a little bit over the weekend.  I took the Silmic II's out of the power supply of the Vali2 and put the original Nichicon's back in.  They didnt make that much difference in SQ and I needed them for something else.  I also went away from the horizontal configuration and I cut a hole in the top in order to mount them vertically.  Against my better judgement I used a dremel to cut the hole an not my mill because I was being lazy and didnt want to set the mill up. That lazyness resulted in a hole that looks like it was cut with a can opener.  I am thinking about contacting Schiit to see if I can buy just a cover and if I can I will cut a proper hole.  I was thinking about making a cover of some sort out of stainless and that would cover up the jacked up hole.  I have options so I cant be too upset over the screw up haha.  I also switched to the horizontal layout until I come up with a more permanent solution to the sliding.  
  
 I am using the mixer in the top center to do some component testing.  Right now I am testing resistors as you can see by my labeling.  I am really liking the Kiwame resistors by the way.  The only original component left in either of them is the PCB.  They have be restuffed with higher end resistors and caps because the original SQ was kinda bland.  They are much better now.  I use the bottom one to connect my phone to the system while I am playing xbox so I can listen to music.  I am running a AD4610 in there in place of the original 4580.  There are silmic II's in the signal path, vishay metal foils throughout(except for a couple high resistance resistors, those are vishay metal films) and alps pots in there.  For some reason I thought it was a good idea to buy a $30 mixer and put $100 worth of components into it but its not the bottleneck any longer so I guess i accomplished what I was trying to do.  I have enough MS Star Line Silver Plated RCA's on order to replace everything in the system along with 4 or 5 different types of wire and some tubing/sleeving options.  I am going to do some testing once it arrives and I will make new interconnects for everything out of whichever combo I like best.  I am not good at describing what I am hearing so I doubt I will do any sort of write up on it.  Plus I am pretty sure all of that stuff has been debated and reviewed before by someone better at reviewing than me.  I am mainly doing it for my own purposes so I can make some decisions on components and wire types for the amp I am making.  But enough of that, this is my Schiit and I am pretty content for now.  I am working to paint up my Seinnheiser's while I wait on the interconnect materials.  They are pretty much done but I dont know if i am allowed to post images of them in here since they arent related to the Vali2.  
  
 Overall I am loving the setup and I think I am done tinkering with the Schiit for a while.  I think there is still some improvements to be heard too.  Stuff continues to break in so I am going to leave it all alone and give it some time to marinade and stew in its own audio goodness to see where it all ends up.  No part of me thinks it will be the same a year but for now I have to leave it alone in order to work on some other projects that I have neglected while working on this. I will come back to it at some point in the future.   One thing on the Silmic's, they dont lie when they say 100hrs of break in.  Its actually more that that, or it was in my case.  Other than the tube, they have made the biggest improvement to the SQ compared to all of the other stuff I have done.  They opened up the soundstage and uncovered some additional detail.  I am always looking over my shoulder now because it constantly sounds like someone is behind me!!  The only downside is even though they are the same value as the originals, i feel like I have lost a little on the bottom end.  It might just be tighter now and doesnt resonate or get mushy but i have noticed it seems to have diminished somewhat.  I am not a huge bass fan anyways so its not a big issue to me but might be to someone else that is considering this mod.  Its slight though so to me the additional detail was worth losing some on the bottom end.   
  
 And finally, I had some time to listen to the Amperex 7308 over the weekend and I think I am going to stand by my original thoughts on it.  It does sound good but that 'spacey' sound takes some getting used to and to me it only sounds good with certain types of music.  It has a place in my rotation but I think my high usage tubes will be the Pope for music and the LISST for gaming and general television watching.  If something changes with it I will report back because like I said, its not a bad sound, just unique or unexpected, but not at all bad in my opinion.


----------



## IPA-60-IBU

Hello everybody!
  
 This is my first post here. Mainly based on this thread, I bought a Vali2 last month. Tesla e88cc (military) sounds great on that thing, together with DT990.
 Recently, I came into posession of some NOS 6n2p tubes. From what I could find, they have the same pinout as the default tube, and similar characteristics.
  
http://www.lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/6N2P.pdf
  
 The heater voltage is within Vali2's spec. However, is there anything else that I am missing, but could damage the amplifier?
 cheers


----------



## rnros

ipa-60-ibu said:


> The heater voltage is within Vali2's spec. However, is there anything else that I am missing, but could damage the amplifier? cheers


 
 I've not tried the 6N2P. Jeez and I thought I tried all the possibilities! 
  
 Yes, heater voltage and current are fine. Heater current is similar to 6N23P and 6922, at the lower end ~300ma. 6N1P is ~600ma, that's near the upper limit. IIRC limit is ~700ma.
 Anode voltage is 250, similar to 6N1P. Anode power is lower at 1W vs 2.2W for the 6N1P. 6N23P is 1.8W. Gain is significantly higher, 80-115 vs ~25-42 for the other two.
  
 This information is coming from this source: http://www.russiantubes.com/tubes.php?r=12
  
 All this meaning I would give it a try. But that's me. You can email Schiit tech and get a definite answer if you want to be absolutely safe.
 Glad to see you're exploring some tube options. It's a great amp for tube rolling.


----------



## IPA-60-IBU

I'd like to add that currently my Vali2 is running on a Tesla E88CC, with militarymarkings and manufacture code which makes no sense (101, U3, U8 with a small arrow in superscript; see on attached photos). The main difference between that bulb and the stock 6BQ7A is in the soundstage and in bass control, I think. Tesla seems more controlled, much less bloated; same with the soundstage. Although the stock tube seems more multidimensional, E88CC appears more precise.
 Coming back to the topic, Schiit Tech responded with "It sounds like it should work fine, I can’t say we’ve tried that."
 The tubes should be there in a matter of days. Among them some will be 'white anode', which supposedly means the're pretty old (probably from the 50s), and some will be 6n1p-ew, which marks military grade, longlife variant. Apparently, they were tested with a soviet ELPO p507 tester and l3-3, and had 100% emmision.
  
 PS: I can't post images, here's a link instead: http://imgur.com/a/ajSbe


----------



## rnros

Sounds like you have some interesting options to compare. Keep in mind that tubes need to burn and settle for a while before you see their final potential and/or sound profile.
 IMO and experience, some tubes come around and show well in 24hrs, others can take over 100hrs. So it can be a slow process. True some sound great right out of the gate but even those usually have some area(s) that need a little improvement. So I wouldn't quickly write off tubes that generally sound good to your ear but have areas that aren't quite right.
 But I don't mean tubes that have serious noise problems or just sound awful to your ear! There are a lot of bad tubes, and you won't know that until you buy them and listen, unfortunately.


----------



## alazhaarp

Now my Schiit Vali 2 catches cellular signal and preduces static noises when it does. I started to notice it in the last 48 hours. Anyone experiencing the same thing?


----------



## Noremac82

alazhaarp said:


> Now my Schiit Vali 2 catches cellular signal and preduces static noises when it does. I started to notice it in the last 48 hours. Anyone experiencing the same thing?




Are you sure its coming from the Vali2 and not an interconnect or headphone cable? How close is the phone when you are noticing this noise? Is the static consistent meaning one frequency like from the phone antenna or is is random noise and intermittent? These answers might help to narrow it down. 

If you haven't already done it, I would suggest performing a swap of all cables, one at a time, just to be sure the static is coming from the vali and not a bad connector or something. If it is the vali they have a 5 year warranty so I am sure you wouldn't have a problem getting a replacement at no cost.


----------



## Skarecrow77

alazhaarp said:


> Now my Schiit Vali 2 catches cellular signal and preduces static noises when it does. I started to notice it in the last 48 hours. Anyone experiencing the same thing?


 
  
 Not on my Vali 2, no, but on my old Perreaux amp, yes. It caught all sorts of interference at the end of it's life. Mostly it was indistinguishable noise, but if I pulled the power cable and turned the volume pot all the way up I could distinguish broadcast radio (at least, that's what I though it was) with no cables plugged into it at all. Swapped in my wife's magni with all the same cables, no problem at all.


----------



## alazhaarp

noremac82 said:


> Are you sure its coming from the Vali2 and not an interconnect or headphone cable? How close is the phone when you are noticing this noise? Is the static consistent meaning one frequency like from the phone antenna or is is random noise and intermittent? These answers might help to narrow it down.
> 
> If you haven't already done it, I would suggest performing a swap of all cables, one at a time, just to be sure the static is coming from the vali and not a bad connector or something. If it is the vali they have a 5 year warranty so I am sure you wouldn't have a problem getting a replacement at no cost.


 

 Yeah, I'm sure. My first guess was cable problem. I tried to swap it, unplug other cables or computer's power cable. But the problem  wasn't solved. And then I notice that the noise is louder if my phone's closer to the amp. So I move my phone closer and farther from the Vali 2 when it's transmitting signal.. And yep, that's that. Another proof is I can remove the noise anytime by setting my phone on airplane mode.
  


skarecrow77 said:


> Not on my Vali 2, no, but on my old Perreaux amp, yes. It caught all sorts of interference at the end of it's life. Mostly it was indistinguishable noise, but if I pulled the power cable and turned the volume pot all the way up I could distinguish broadcast radio (at least, that's what I though it was) with no cables plugged into it at all. Swapped in my wife's magni with all the same cables, no problem at all.


 

 Uh oh. Yeah I heard once that amplifier could become a radio.. I remember my friend built his own guitar amplifier and whenever we plug a guitar and turned the volume all the way up, we can hear radio broadcasts. It's funny though, the guitar was its antenne.


----------



## Noremac82

alazhaarp said:


> Yeah, I'm sure. My first guess was cable problem. I tried to swap it, unplug other cables or computer's power cable. But the problem  wasn't solved. And then I notice that the noise is louder if my phone's closer to the amp. So I move my phone closer and farther from the Vali 2 when it's transmitting signal.. And yep, that's that. Another proof is I can remove the noise anytime by setting my phone on airplane mode.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh oh. Yeah I heard once that amplifier could become a radio.. I remember my friend built his own guitar amplifier and whenever we plug a guitar and turned the volume all the way up, we can hear radio broadcasts. It's funny though, the guitar was its antenne.




Sounds like it's RMA time now. Let us know how that process goes. I have read good things about their retirn/replacement policy so it shouldn't be a huge hassle. Maybe they will even pay shipping if your lucky!


----------



## Keefkok95

Hi all, need some help from any audiophile guru.

I'm currently using the FIIO E10K with Beyer DT990s.

The line out goes to my speakers and headhphone out to my DT990s.

I'm planning to get the Schiit Magni/Vali and more interested in the Vali due to the fact that it is a hybrid tube amp and might provide a more warmer sound.

If I do get the Vali, I plan to connect it through the line out of my FIIO E10K via 3.5mm to RCA cable. My only concern is the ringing sound that occurs with tube amps when you turn them on for the first few minutes. 

-Would the ringing sound affect my speakers as well?
-Should I just connect my speakers through the line out from my DAC as per usual instead of RCA from the Vali to avoid the ringing?

Kindly advise as I've heard it would be better to output the amp (Vali) through line out as opposed to headphone out. If it makes no difference, I might as well use the headphone out to the Vali and use the line out from my DAC to my speakers to avoid the ringing.


----------



## Skarecrow77

keefkok95 said:


> Hi all, need some help from any audiophile guru.
> 
> I'm currently using the FIIO E10K with Beyer DT990s.
> 
> ...


 


 If your tube amp rings, you'll hear it in the line-out, as the line-out is pre-amp'd by the vali2. the tube is what's causing the ringing, and it's also what's doing the amping. you can't de-tangle the two.
  
 That said, My Vali2 doesn't ring with any of my 3 tubes, stock, Philips (TI) or Philips (Herleen). I've only ever got ringing once, and that was because I knocked the hell out of the amp by accidentally lifting up one corner and dropping it about a quarter inch back onto the desk. In more normal use, I've never heard any ringing by turning it on (although I keep headphones off my ears for the first 30 seconds to avoid the "pop" anyway), or by switching from high gain to low gain.
  
 The original Vali was, I've read, susceptible to ringing, but the vali 2 has been nothing but silent for me under normal operation.


----------



## HOWIE13

keefkok95 said:


> Hi all, need some help from any audiophile guru.
> 
> I'm currently using the FIIO E10K with Beyer DT990s.
> 
> ...


 
 As Skarecrow77 says, Schiit are supposed to have sorted out the ringing problem with the original Vali and Vali2 is not supposed to ring. 
 Mine doesn't anyway.
 As to which outputs you use I would just experiment and see which you prefer.


----------



## AviP

Has anyone compared the Vali 2 to the Darkvoice?
 I know that the DV is an OTL and this a hybrid, but I'm curious since there's only a $50 difference.


----------



## Noremac82

@AviP 
I have been wondering the same thing. I see them come up on mass drop occasionally and almost pulled the trigger on one this last time. I ultimately decided to save that money to put towards a pair of alpha primes so I guess I will never know the answer. I have heard read good things about OTL amps in general though. Seems like it's easier to get really good sound out of an OTL amp compared to other designs too. I'm still really happy with my Vali2 so I just can't justify purchasing another amp at this time. I kinda feel like if I upgrade to OTL I will go with the Valhalla. I am like that though, if I find a brand I like I am pretty loyal to it and stick with it until it does me wrong. Not sure if that's the best mindset but it's worked pretty well for me so far. I still feel like there is a little more I can get out if the Vali2 so I'm gonna persue that for a while longer. I'm looking at the input side now and have found a couple components that could stand to be upgraded. Too bad it's all surface mount though, that really limits what you can do. Gonna have to get creative in order to squeeze a little more out of it.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Does the Vali 2 support Op-Amp rolling? I had that with my Little Dot I+ and it did does some nice things, along with tube rolling of course.


----------



## HOWIE13

waytoocrazy said:


> Does the Vali 2 support Op-Amp rolling? I had that with my Little Dot I+ and it did does some nice things, along with tube rolling of course.


 
 I wasn't aware that Vali 2 had op-amps.


----------



## rnros

It doesn't: "fully discrete, current-mode noninverting hybrid topology."


----------



## JohnBal

Per the Vali 2 web page:
  
"The Most Serious Tube Design—Far Beyond its Price
Some inexpensive (and not-so-inexpensive) tube amps don’t use tubes to their full potential, “starving” them with low plate voltages or using op-amp buffers for output. Not Vali 2. Vali 2 uses a unique, class-leading power supply that gives us 60V on the plate. *Combined with a fully discrete, current-mode noninverting hybrid topology*, Vali 2 redefines what you can expect from an affordable tube amp, even at 2x its price."
 
I think it does not have op amps.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

My bad. lol.


----------



## Noremac82

waytoocrazy said:


> Does the Vali 2 support Op-Amp rolling? I had that with my Little Dot I+ and it did does some nice things, along with tube rolling of course.




Theoretically yes. In reality probably not the best idea. The op amp on the vali2 is a SOT-23-5 package size and not the regular 8 pin DIP package. This means that you will have to desolder and resolder the SOT-23 component which takes some soldering skills. Plus seems like I have seen two different pin out conventions for the SOT-23 op amps. This means if you don't use the exact same pin out then you are going to damage the op amp and potentially other components. Then you run into potentially lifting pads and all the other fun stuff that goes along with changing surface mount components. 

So yes it can be 'rolled' but it's more than just adding a socket and plugging in a new IC. I can look at my notes when I get home to see which op amp comes in the vali2 from Schiit but if my memory serves me it seems like it was a pretty decent part. 

On side note, after looking into how op amps are intended to be used in an amp I am off the op amp rolling kick. Not sure this is the place to discuss how a 20 dollar op amp is entirely unnecessary when a 3 or 4 dollar audio grade op amp will do just fine. based on some data I seen a week or so ago, there is one out there, can't remember the number right now, that cost like $. 60 and it's noise is lower than any others that were tested. There is a lot of information already available but the whole op amp rolling thing seems to have gotten a little over hyped and out of control in my opinion. It might have applied years ago but now companies have had time to spend a lot of R&D money on dare I say 'slow' audio grade amps so using one that was intended for Uber high speed data lines is like killing gnats with a bazooka. It works but is it really necessary? If it's working for you then by all means rock on but I feel like there are bigger gains to be made in areas other than a component that's goal is to be tonally neutral and add no noise. Op amps that are intended to be uses in high speed systems are usually not the quietest op amp out there. For this guy, when it comes to op amps, its now became slow and easy for the win. Which in most cases means leaving whatever the stock one is alone unless you know it's junk and causing problems.


----------



## nwavesailor

noremac82 said:


> On side note, after looking into how op amps are intended to be used in an amp I am off the op amp rolling kick. Not sure this is the place to discuss how a 20 dollar op amp is entirely unnecessary when a 3 or 4 dollar audio grade op amp will do just fine. based on some data I seen a week or so ago, there is one out there, can't remember the number right now, that cost like $. 60 and it's noise is lower than any others that were tested. There is a lot of information already available but the whole op amp rolling thing seems to have gotten a little over hyped and out of control in my opinion. It might have applied years ago but now companies have had time to spend a lot of R&D money on dare I say 'slow' audio grade amps so using one that was intended for Uber high speed data lines is like killing gnats with a bazooka. It works but is it really necessary? If it's working for you then by all means rock on but I feel like there are bigger gains to be made in areas other than a component that's goal is to be tonally neutral and add no noise. Op amps that are intended to be uses in high speed systems are usually not the quietest op amp out there. For this guy, when it comes to op amps, its now became slow and easy for the win. Which in most cases means leaving whatever the stock one is alone unless you know it's junk and causing problems.


 
 I would agree that there are many very good op amps for very little $$$.
  
 I have been rolling dual op amps (8-10 'flavors') in a Project Starlight amp and thought that while I preferred the ones with more detail, there was more to be gained rolling tubes...............that is until I tried OPA627's!
 The hype (IMO) is true. Yes, they cost real $$$ but, at least in the Starlight with a modest Amperex 6DJ8 tube they sound as real as anything I have heard in my headphones. Deep solid bass, sweet mids and great detail w/o brittle sibilant highs. I am thrilled with vocals, instruments as well as percussion and my wife (she had better ears) agrees. I couldn't be happier and glad I tried these op amps in the Starlight.
  
 Truth be told, I was pretty happy with the stock op amps, LM4562 / LME 49720 and could easily have lived with them but now that I've heard the OPA627's, there is no going back!
  
 BEWARE! E-Bay has a lot OPA627 op amps from China and there are supposed to be lots of counterfeits out there...........Mouser and Digikey wold be safer bets to get the real 627's.


----------



## enginepartsguy

I have a Vahalla 2 and have just run the stock tubes for the two years I have owned it. I did put two fans from coolers guys to blow into the amp from the left side. They are plugged into a switched outlet on my HK3490Z receiver. Stays cool now, and has changed the sound a little. I have seperated the amp from the preamp, run that into a JVC SEA 7 graphic equilizer then into the Vallhalla 2 and then back into the amp in on the receiver. I have an extrrmely heavy duty headphone extension cable that goes to the other side of the room to my recliner. I am disabled, I have CIDP. I can't do much more thant than listen to music, or watch TV on my headphones. I was just wondering if there are any recommendatuons as to rolling tubes on the V2? I have not seen any discussions on it. Thanks! Charlie


----------



## Skarecrow77

enginepartsguy said:


> I was just wondering if there are any recommendatuons as to rolling tubes on the V2? I have not seen any discussions on it. Thanks! Charlie


 
  
 I'm not sure if you mean the Vali 2, or the Valhalla 2.
  
 There is a Vali 2 tube rolling thread, yes.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/793982/vali-2-tube-rolling
  
 There is a Valhalla 1 tube rolling thread.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/619910/schiit-valhalla-tube-rolling-thread
  
 I don't know that there is a Valhalla 2 thread, I would guess they probably folded it into the Valhalla 1 thread.


----------



## enginepartsguy

Thanks for the link on the Vahalla1, I have the 2, just has a preamp out, the 1 does'nt. C.


----------



## Noremac82

Thanks f





nwavesailor said:


> I would agree that there are many very good op amps for very little $$$.
> 
> I have been rolling dual op amps (8-10 'flavors') in a Project Starlight amp and thought that while I preferred the ones with more detail, there was more to be gained rolling tubes...............that is until I tried OPA627's!
> The hype (IMO) is true. Yes, they cost real $$$ but, at least in the Starlight with a modest Amperex 6DJ8 tube they sound as real as anything I have heard in my headphones. Deep solid bass, sweet mids and great detail w/o brittle sibilant highs. I am thrilled with vocals, instruments as well as percussion and my wife (she had better ears) agrees. I couldn't be happier and glad I tried these op amps in the Starlight.
> ...




I have heard some good things about the 627 but never tried them. Actually, i should have a couple floating around here somewhere that I had ordered for a non-related project and never used. I was young and optimistic and it was one of those, these are expensive so they must be good purchases but didn't work at all for my application. I will hunt them down and give them a go in my mixer if I find them. That's really the only place I can easily "roll" an opamp right now. I could get one mounted to the vali2 by using one of those little converter boards but don't really have the time to do it right now. I have been putting all of my efforts into my amp design and dark souls 3 so I'm pretty busy haha! 

And as to the digikey/mouser suggestion, I would highly recommend anyone order from them for any electronics related components and to never use eBay if possible. To me it's worth the added price to know I am getting exactly what I ordered instead of rolling the dice just to save a few bucks. I learned from experience on that. A while back I was working on a project and bought a couple little lcd displays from a seller on eBay. They were supposed to be a certain model and brand, guess what, they weren't. Well, after about a weeks worth of beating my head against the desk, and numerous component swaps, I determined that the pinout was wrong on the knock off which led to my Rx line connected to Vb and Tx into GND. Not the optimal situation for serial communication by any means. Not to mention all the other randomly generated connections that were being made due to this cleverly copied display. It looked real but once I got the genuine displays delivered and installed, and all damaged components replaced, the design worked flawlessly. On top of it, the eBay seller was less than helpful due to their policy of not accepting used parts as returns. So I was stuck with them and I still have them hanging over my bench to remind me not to try and cut corners. There is nothing like realizing you wasted a weeks worth of time and money over trying to save a few dollars. All told, not even considering my time, it probably cost me $100 more than it should have in the end. All because I tried to cut a corner and save 10 bucks. 

Moral of the story is if you want the good stuff, suck it up and pay for it. This is because, under normal circumstances, there are no "deals" on good, high end stuff. Just like there are no sales at the rolls Royse dealership, you aren't going to find too many deals on the good audio components. And just like a rolls Royse, they cost a pretty penny. You will eventually end up paying for cutting corners and using potentially unknown components in one way, shape, or form at some point down the road. There is the occasion where you might find a reputable dealer on eBay but even then I am leary. Even though their intentions may be good their sources are still an unknown variable. i will always check a major component supplier first, niche online retailers second and eBay last. EBay has its place in this hobby, but in my humble opinion, it's not for purchasing high grade electronic components. You will be saving yourself a lot of headaches by just biting the bullet and ordering from a major parts house even if you have to get something that might be slightly worse on the spec sheet in order to meet your budget. 99 times out of 100 I think people would rather have a good but not great capacitor or IC over some potentially bogus one with a high end name or number on it. Your gear will thank you! 

Rant mode off


----------



## Skarecrow77

Vali 2 "review pt. 2"

 So, for various reasons, I pulled out my old shabby nearly un-wearable HD-650s, and my wife's clunky-but-in-somewhat-better-condition HD-580s and Frankenstein'd together a working set of cans out of the best parts of both (the 650 drivers and enclosures, thankfully). 
  
 I listened to the FrankenSenns for several hours last night, and a couple hours tonight. I thought at first that they had reminded me that I am indeed a "closed can" kinda guy, but now I'm not so sure. I swapped out my Philips EI PCC88 for my Philips Herleen Pinched Waist PCC88, and after some playing around I actually am listening to the HD-650s on low gain, not high gain (albeit at about 90% on the volume pot).
  
 There's a lot to recommend this setup. It's totally missing the "roomfeel" of my NAD HP50s, but it's also more... delicate. Tracks that were verging on "over-saturated" with the EI and NADs are really quite pretty with the Herleen and FrankenSenns. I think I'm going back to the HP50s... but not yet. not quite yet.
  
 It gives me a new angle to "review" the Vali 2 though. I wore these 650s (well, these drivers anyway) for the better part of a decade straight. I'd like to say I know them very well. The E-Mu 1212m and Perreaux SXH-1 I bought (both flavors of the month circa 2003 for those who have been around forever) at the time was supposed to be a very good match for the 650s, but the Modi 2 and Vali 2 are driving these things way better than the E-Mu and Perreaux ever did. Way better. Also, the 650s have bass! I never knew. The "veil" isn't anything like I remember it. It's not quite as intimate as my HP50s or my PSB M4U-1, where I'm "on stage", but I feel like I'm in the front or second row now with the FrankenSenns, not 10 or 15 rows back like I used to. The 650s are almost... "up front"? I never thought I'd call the Senns that. All those years I thought they were veiled and laid back, turns out I just wasn't sourcing and driving them well enough? Who knew. Anyway, color me re-impressed with the Senns.

 As for the tubey ShiitStack, well the Modi 2 cost half what the E-Mu did. Accounting for inflation, well less than half. The Vali 2 and Philips tube cost a little more than half what the Perreaux did. What a difference a decade makes?

 Long story short, I'm impressed how the Vali 2 (and modi 2) have transformed a set of cans that were mostly-retired for "the new hotness" several times over, into something I'm enjoying listening to again.

 As a side note, I'm really getting the itch to try a "middle ground" headphone between the HP50s and the HD-650s. I hear good things about the Hifiman HE-400i...


----------



## Noremac82

@scarecrow77

If you go 400i let me know how it sounds. I was originally looking to get some alpha primes but have been reading up on some of the hifiman stuff and my interest had been piqued. If I hadn't gotten such a good deal on my Hd650's I would have probably ended up with the alpha primes originally but I couldnt pass up 349 for a new pair of 650's in open box. I am glad I went that route but now I am second guessing the alpha primes and feel like a pair of he400i, he500 or maybe even he560's might be better suited as a second pair for me. I know I want an additional pair that sound completely different so not sure how to proceed. I really wish I could hear both on my gear to see which I like best. Maybe there will be a meet close to me this summer that I can attend.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

The HE-400i sounds great on the Vali 2.


----------



## Mumbles06

I've got my new ZMF Cocobolo Omni's kicking it through my Vali2 with a Gold Lion right now.  Wow.  They sound superb.


----------



## Headphone4Life

Does anyone use a pair of HD700's with the Vali 2 and if so how does it sound?  I'm looking for a new amp but don't know if I want to go straight tube or get a hybrid.  I have an original Vali but it has a small channel imbalance so I was thinking of getting the new one and since you can tube roll that's a big plus.  I'm thinking I'm leaning towards a hybrid because I could also use my 400i with it but not with a straight tube amp.


----------



## Odin412

headphone4life said:


> Does anyone use a pair of HD700's with the Vali 2 and if so how does it sound?  I'm looking for a new amp but don't know if I want to go straight tube or get a hybrid.  I have an original Vali but it has a small channel imbalance so I was thinking of getting the new one and since you can tube roll that's a big plus.  I'm thinking I'm leaning towards a hybrid because I could also use my 400i with it but not with a straight tube amp.


 
  
 I haven't tried my HD700 with my Vali 2 yet, but I'll check the combo out and let you know.


----------



## Headphone4Life

odin412 said:


> I haven't tried my HD700 with my Vali 2 yet, but I'll check the combo out and let you know.




Thanks, I'd really appreciate it.


----------



## claud W

Ordered my Modi2 Uber and Vali 2 today.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

claud w said:


> Ordered my Modi2 Uber and Vali 2 today.


 

 Great pairing! That is what I run and I like it very much. I actually had the JDSLabs Element prior to this stack, and sold it. I much prefer to stack my Schiit!


----------



## claud W

waytoocrazy said:


> Great pairing! That is what I run and I like it very much. I actually had the JDSLabs Element prior to this stack, and sold it. I much prefer to stack my Schiit!


 

 Put my ALO Island up for sale last night. Schiit stack arriving Wednesday.


----------



## rudyae86

The more I read about the Vali 2, the more I want one lol.

Going to wait a bit longer since I has no moneys for more toys


----------



## Odin412

headphone4life said:


> Does anyone use a pair of HD700's with the Vali 2 and if so how does it sound?


 
  
 I tried my HD700 with my Vali 2 and I like the combo. Good, deep bass and smooth, lifelike midrange. To my ears the HD700 can sound bright on some recordings, but with the Vali 2 the treble was quite smooth and enjoyable to my ears. Also keep in mind that you can roll tubes on the Vali 2 and change the sound slightly to your liking. I thought that the stock tube was a bit 'thick' sounding so I replaced it with a Philips ECC 88. Your preference may be different. Another advantage of a hybrid amp is that it can drive pretty much any headphone, including planar magnetics.


----------



## Robert440

I am enjoying listening to my Vali 2 with the stock tube.  MacBook Pro streaming Bluetooth to Belkin BT HD.  So convenient, sounds great.  Would love to see an upgraded powder supply one day.  Maybe in a matching case offering a higher plate voltage for the tube section?  Yeah, I know, why didn't I just buy a Valhalla or a Lyr.  The Vali 2 is just too cute.


----------



## volly

robert440 said:


> I am enjoying listening to my Vali 2 with the stock tube.  MacBook Pro streaming Bluetooth to Belkin BT HD.  So convenient, sounds great.  Would love to see an upgraded powder supply one day.  Maybe in a matching case offering a higher plate voltage for the tube section?  Yeah, I know, why didn't I just buy a Valhalla or a Lyr.  The Vali 2 is just too cute.


 
 Hahah...enjoy mate! 
  
 I too would love an Uber Vali 2 but I guess I'll have to fork out the money for a Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2. 
  
 I'm just listening to my Philips E88CC SQ's that I've received today, ummmmmmm.....big stupid grin on my face! 
  
 They are delicate, spacious, detailed and musical...pretty close to perfect for me!
  
 More listening time for me! 
  
 I love this little guy!!


----------



## claud W

Using the right tube in your Vali 2 is so rewarding. Just changed the ear pads on my HD600s. First change in 15 or so years. Already changed headband. Thought I would tube out the Vali. Its a bit overkill to put a $450 tube in it, but so rewarding.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

claud w said:


> Its a bit overkill to put a $450 tube in it, but so rewarding.


 
 No one should judge how you spend YOUR money, but I didn't even know tubes went that high. I thought I spent a lot on a BEL E88CC tube ($70). I guess I picked a relative bargain. lol.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

tuneslover said:


> And the "King of the Castle" is...


 

 You have a lot of Schiit there.


----------



## claud W

waytoocrazy said:


> No one should judge how you spend YOUR money, but I didn't even know tubes went that high. I thought I spent a lot on a BEL E88CC tube ($70). I guess I picked a relative bargain. lol.


 

 If I am right, that BEL is really a Phillips/Amperex 6922 which is a great tube in the Vali 2. If you go to Tube World, you can find used, but good tubes for decent prices. Always make sure that the two sections of your tube are closely matched since we only use one tube.
 By the way, that is a current price per tube. I bought most of my tubes 15 or so years ago as an investment in this hobby. They ain't gonna make any better ones than they did in the 40s through 60s. As they get rarer, the price goes up and its an investment you can enjoy.


----------



## Oskari

claud w said:


> If I am right, that BEL is really a Phillips/Amperex 6922 which is a great tube in the Vali 2.




It's a tube made with Philips technology in India.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

oskari said:


> It's a tube made with Philips technology in India.


 

 Correct. It sounds much smoother and better bass than the stock tube. I really enjoyed the change. I love how it sounds with the Audeze EL8-O and can't wait to hear it with the Fostex TH-X00 Purple Heart when they finally show up.


----------



## rgmffn

waytoocrazy said:


> Correct. It sounds much smoother and better bass than the stock tube. I really enjoyed the change. I love how it sounds with the Audeze EL8-O and can't wait to hear it with the Fostex TH-X00 Purple Heart when they finally show up.


 
 I have a half dozen tubes or so for my Vali 2. After getting my BEL E88CC I have no desire to use anything else.  It sounds heavenly.


----------



## claud W

My prior stack was a Lyr and Bifrost Uber. This Schiit Stack sounds as good or better than they did for peanuts. Its not Ragg and Yiggy which I have, but its great quality you can afford and a form factor you can use with your puter. MidFi headphones are easily driven and sound great!! I can hardly wait for my Fostex MassDrop specials to arrive. So far the HD600s w/ Toxic Silver Poison cord are the best on this Stack. I am waiting on my Wywires Red cord for my AKG 702s.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

rgmffn said:


> I have a half dozen tubes or so for my Vali 2. After getting my BEL E88CC I have no desire to use anything else.  It sounds heavenly.


 

 I believe you recommended that tube to me (not sure).


----------



## rgmffn

waytoocrazy said:


> I believe you recommended that tube to me (not sure).


 
 Yes, it was I. I hope you weren't disappointed. I saw you had the 400i's so that's why I made the suggestion. It really sounds great with them. There's nice synergy together there I feel. But, I prefer the National PCC88/7DJ8 with my Fidelio X2's.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

rgmffn said:


> Yes, it was I. I hope you weren't disappointed. I saw you had the 400i's so that's why I made the suggestion. It really sounds great with them. There's nice synergy together there I feel. But, I prefer the National PCC88/7DJ8 with my Fidelio X2's.




The Audeze EL-8 Open work quite well with that tube as well.


----------



## whaiyun

How well would the Vali 2 drive my AKG K701?


----------



## west0ne

whaiyun said:


> How well would the Vali 2 drive my AKG K701?




On high gain it gets my K702 too loud for comfort; sounds good as well. I imagine it would be a similar story for the K701.


----------



## whaiyun

Without being screechy? The tube I assume helps warm up the K702?


----------



## h2rulz

rgmffn said:


> Yes, it was I. I hope you weren't disappointed. I saw you had the 400i's so that's why I made the suggestion. It really sounds great with them. There's nice synergy together there I feel. But, I prefer the National PCC88/7DJ8 with my Fidelio X2's.


 

 Good to know there are other people out there who likes the National PCC88 with the X2's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 It's a great tube for the price.


----------



## SleepingLesson

My Vali 2 is arriving today and I can't wait to give it a listen. Unfortunately my TH-X00s won't be here for a few weeks, so it'll just be the ol' Sony MDR-7506s for now. This is my first tube amp so I bought a Tesla E88CC on eBay so I could experience how tubes vary the sound.


----------



## rgmffn

sleepinglesson said:


> My Vali 2 is arriving today and I can't wait to give it a listen. Unfortunately my TH-X00s won't be here for a few weeks, so it'll just be the ol' Sony MDR-7506s for now. This is my first tube amp so I bought a Tesla E88CC on eBay so I could experience how tubes vary the sound.


 
 I have a half dozen different tubes for my Vali 2 and I think the Tesla E88CC sounds the most tubey. . My thoughts are, that it won't match up with real well with your Sonys. Just a thought, I haven't tried it, but I do have a pair. I just  haven't heard them in a while. Give it a shot though. Enjoy your Vali 2. It's a great little amp!


----------



## SleepingLesson

I ran home on my lunch break since my Vali 2 was delivered to try it out. Only had time to listen to one song, which ended up being Lotus Flower by Radiohead, played from the 10" King of Limbs vinyl . Even with my lower-end Sony MDR-7506s, it made a woooorld of difference. There are sounds in that song that I didn't even realize were there!
  
 Quote:


rgmffn said:


> I have a half dozen different tubes for my Vali 2 and I think the Tesla E88CC sounds the most tubey. . My thoughts are, that it won't match up with real well with your Sonys. Just a thought, I haven't tried it, but I do have a pair. I just  haven't heard them in a while. Give it a shot though. Enjoy your Vali 2. It's a great little amp!


 
 Using the Sonys with the amp is a purely temporary endeavor. Once I get my TH-X00s I'm never looking back. Also, do you mean you don't particularly like the sound of the Tesla tube? I bought that one because I read a few folks saying it was a great match with the Vali 2.


----------



## Maxpain

Hello, how would you compare the vali 2 against the integrated amp of the idsd micro? My headphones are the hd 598 and my dac/amp is the micro. I would like to add some warm tube sound in to the mix but I dont know if the amp on the vali would overcome the amp of the micro. Would it also be a nice pair with the senns?
  
 Cheers


----------



## rgmffn

sleepinglesson said:


> Using the Sonys with the amp is a purely temporary endeavor. Once I get my TH-X00s I'm never looking back. Also, do you mean you don't particularly like the sound of the Tesla tube? I bought that one because I read a few folks saying it was a great match with the Vali 2.


 
 Well, since you ask, no, I don't particularly care for it. But that's just me. Many do though, so. It's just a little too laid-back for me. That's all. But, it's not what I like, it's what you like that matters. Enjoy


----------



## SleepingLesson

rgmffn said:


> Well, since you ask, no, I don't particularly care for it. But that's just me. Many do though, so. It's just a little too laid-back for me. That's all. But, it's not what I like, it's what you like that matters. Enjoy


 
 Ah, I got ya. I'm new to higher-end audio stuff so I'm still feeling out what I like and don't like. The Tesla tube should be a good to compare with the stock one, if nothing else.


----------



## alexsv

claud w said:


> My prior stack was a Lyr and Bifrost Uber. This Schiit Stack sounds as good or better than they did for peanuts. Its not Ragg and Yiggy which I have, but its great quality you can afford and a form factor you can use with your puter. MidFi headphones are easily driven and sound great!! I can hardly wait for my Fostex MassDrop specials to arrive. So far the HD600s w/ Toxic Silver Poison cord are the best on this Stack. I am waiting on my Wywires Red cord for my AKG 702s.


 
 Hi Claud,
  
 Your cable is shipping today USPS Priority, Thanks
  
 Alex


----------



## LazyBonesIH

First post, I put together a starter head-fi system this year, after lurking on this site for a while, as a visitor. Started with a Sonos connect and Schiit Vali 2. I went the Sonos route due to already having some other Sonos kit, plus I like the simple interface.
  
 The other reason for Sonos is the lower power usage compared to a full computer, my music is stored on a 480 Gb SSD connected to a Synology NAS, again doesn't draw much wattage compared to computer. Only use a computer to rip my CDs to FLAC format.
  
 I managed to get a good deal on some Sennheiser 598s as first headphones, am enjoying the experience so far.
  
 Early on I replaced the tube/valve that came with the Vali 2, 6BQ7A/6BZ7, I've tried some cheap 6N1Ps & 6N23Ps, wasn't that keen on those, currently got a 6FQ7/6CG7 GE USA installed, am liking this a lot.
  
Didn't think I would get into the 'rolling' thing, but over the months, I've bought, but not tried yet the following:
  
6922EH Electro Harmonix Gold
ECC88/6DJ8 SIEMENS
PCC88/7DJ8 PHILIPS NOS
  
 Another recent purchase is a Schiit Modi 2 Uber, am using TOSLINK out of the Sonos into the Modi 2.
  
 Just to say thank you to all, for the help you didn't know you'd given, am really enjoying my headphone experience.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

You should give 6922EH a try. It goes so well with my HD600!


----------



## LazyBonesIH

It is on my 'to do' list, though am waiting for some socket savers to arrive before swapping tubes / valves again.
  
 Again, thanks for the recommendation of 6922EH & Sennheiser. This is proving to be a possibly expensive hobby, as I'm already looking at purchasing another set of headphones, think I need to go see a doctor as I think I've caught 'upgraditis'!


----------



## Faber65

lazybonesih said:


> It is on my 'to do' list, though am waiting for some socket savers to arrive before swapping tubes / valves again.
> 
> Again, thanks for the recommendation of 6922EH & Sennheiser. This is proving to be a possibly expensive hobby, as I'm already looking at purchasing another set of headphones, think I need to go see a doctor as I think I've caught 'upgraditis'!




I agree with Goodguccigoo.
The EH6922 Gold works pretty well with the Vali2. 
Of course here I am considering the value for money. 
And I like the Vali2 also with my Grado, not only with the Senns.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

lazybonesih said:


> It is on my 'to do' list, though am waiting for some socket savers to arrive before swapping tubes / valves again.
> 
> Again, thanks for the recommendation of 6922EH & Sennheiser. This is proving to be a possibly expensive hobby, as I'm already looking at purchasing another set of headphones, think I need to go see a doctor as I think I've caught 'upgraditis'!


 
 What are you think of getting next lol?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Anyone try a pairing with the Audeze EL-8 Open?  I'd like some suggestions for even better synergy. I will also be using the Vali 2 with the TH-X00 when they arrive, so I guess it will have to work equally well with both.


----------



## LazyBonesIH

goodguccigoo said:


> What are you think of getting next lol?


 
 Really not sure, whatever it will make me save and then appreciate, I've seen lots of mentions of Sennheiser 650's and also some for he-400i's, so need to start reading and thinking, though the worry is if I upgrade the headphones, then what next....  decisions, decisions


----------



## Skarecrow77

lazybonesih said:


> Really not sure, whatever it will make me save and then appreciate, I've seen lots of mentions of Sennheiser 650's and also some for he-400i's, so need to start reading and thinking, though the worry is if I upgrade the headphones, then what next....  decisions, decisions


 
  
 Got a pair of 650s, and they sound pretty damn nice with my pinched waist miniwatt PCC88.
  
 If you are considering a pair of closed, might I recommend a pair of NAD Viso HP50s? They sound unreal (in the good way) with my philips (Ei) PCC88.
  
 Having never heard either, I'm torn between either Oppo PM-3s or Hifiman HE-400i for my next pair (whenever that is).


----------



## WayTooCrazy

skarecrow77 said:


> Got a pair of 650s, and they sound pretty damn nice with my pinched waist miniwatt PCC88.
> 
> If you are considering a pair of closed, might I recommend a pair of NAD Viso HP50s? They sound unreal (in the good way) with my philips (Ei) PCC88.
> 
> Having never heard either, I'm torn between either Oppo PM-3s or Hifiman HE-400i for my next pair (whenever that is).


 

 I enjoyed both the Oppo PM-3 and HE-400i with my Vali2, but I much prefer my EL-8 Open to both.  You can't go wrong with either, but if you already have the HP50, might as well lean towards the HE-400i. It is more detailed than the PM-3 and has better highs and more forward mids. The bass is more detailed, but less in quantity to the PM-3.


----------



## listen4joy

finally arrived today, sound pretty good with hd800!


----------



## WayTooCrazy

listen4joy said:


> finally arrived today, sound pretty good with hd800!


 

 Very Interesting! I've always considered the HD800 and a Woo Audio WA22 to be my "endgame" headphone, but I'm in no rush to get there. It is nice to know that I could get the HD800 and have it pair well enough with the Vali2 until I can scratch up the funds to get the WA22.


----------



## jimdandy

I got the Vali 2 and I have had it for 3 months and a Upscale 7DJ8/PCC88 National Tube. I'm using the 400i with new 2.5mm connectors exclusively and I LOVE IT AND THEM. Wow awesome listening to Black Sabbath 13 Deluxe as we speak as will as Five Finger,Rob Zombie and the whole Heavymetal lot. Bass is good midrange is good. Cymbals sound good. Going to get a Onkyo DP-X1 next for portable listening. Can't wait for that tired of listening to cellphones. LOL. I can't say it enough and I know it gets said a lot but,the guys at Schiit Audio really know what they are doing. Affordable,good sounding stuff. Yes they look a little plain but to me it is what is on the inside that matters. I close my eyes and kick back when I listen to my music anyway. LOL. 400i is awesome with the right tube. Just pick a good tube and your done. But what can you say? Planar magnetic goodness.  After listening to Planars I will not go back. Just me personally of course. I have WYRD,MODI 2 UBER and Magni 2 UBER as well. Two stacks of Schiit. Awesome.


----------



## aenokea

jimdandy said:


> I got the Vali 2 and I have had it for 3 months and a Upscale 7DJ8/PCC88 National Tube. I'm using the 400i with new 2.5mm connectors exclusively and I LOVE IT AND THEM. Wow awesome listening to Black Sabbath 13 Deluxe as we speak as will as Five Finger,Rob Zombie and the whole Heavymetal lot. Bass is good midrange is good. Cymbals sound good. Going to get a Onkyo DP-X1 next for portable listening. Can't wait for that tired of listening to cellphones. LOL. I can't say it enough and I know it gets said a lot but,the guys at Schiit Audio really know what they are doing. Affordable,good sounding stuff. Yes they look a little plain but to me it is what is on the inside that matters. I close my eyes and kick back when I listen to my music anyway. LOL. 400i is awesome with the right tube. Just pick a good tube and your done. But what can you say? Planar magnetic goodness.  After listening to Planars I will not go back. Just me personally of course. I have WYRD,MODI 2 UBER and Magni 2 UBER as well. Two stacks of Schiit. Awesome.


 
 I have the two ubers and cant say enough good about them. They are great! I was thinking of adding the vali2 to my stack to sample some tube amplification. Do I need the wyrd to connect the vali to my stack?


----------



## AviP

aenokea said:


> I have the two ubers and cant say enough good about them. They are great! I was thinking of adding the vali2 to my stack to sample some tube amplification. Do I need the wyrd to connect the vali to my stack?



 No, the Wyrd is to clean the USB signal, it goes in between the computer and the DAC.


----------



## JBassFox

Out of curiosity to anyone with a pair of 600 ohm Beyers, how high do you set your volume pot? Is it normal to crank it almost all the way to get a nice loud listening experience? I know the 600s require more juice, I just didn't think it'd be this much. 

Edit: Nevermind. No idea what changed, but now I'm floating a lot closer to 12'.


----------



## jimdandy

aenokea said:


> jimdandy said:
> 
> 
> > I got the Vali 2 and I have had it for 3 months and a Upscale 7DJ8/PCC88 National Tube. I'm using the 400i with new 2.5mm connectors exclusively and I LOVE IT AND THEM. Wow awesome listening to Black Sabbath 13 Deluxe as we speak as will as Five Finger,Rob Zombie and the whole Heavymetal lot. Bass is good midrange is good. Cymbals sound good. Going to get a Onkyo DP-X1 next for portable listening. Can't wait for that tired of listening to cellphones. LOL. I can't say it enough and I know it gets said a lot but,the guys at Schiit Audio really know what they are doing. Affordable,good sounding stuff. Yes they look a little plain but to me it is what is on the inside that matters. I close my eyes and kick back when I listen to my music anyway. LOL. 400i is awesome with the right tube. Just pick a good tube and your done. But what can you say? Planar magnetic goodness.  After listening to Planars I will not go back. Just me personally of course. I have WYRD,MODI 2 UBER and Magni 2 UBER as well. Two stacks of Schiit. Awesome.
> ...


 

 No but you will need to get RCA spliters to connector the Magni and the Vali 2 to your DAC. You can get them through Parts Express.


----------



## Skarecrow77

jbassfox said:


> Out of curiosity to anyone with a pair of 600 ohm Beyers, how high do you set your volume pot? Is it normal to crank it almost all the way to get a nice loud listening experience? I know the 600s require more juice, I just didn't think it'd be this much.
> 
> Edit: Nevermind. No idea what changed, but now I'm floating a lot closer to 12'.


 
  
 in low gain mode? hell yes. I'm not even sure you can get good volume out of 600ohm beyers in low gain mode.
  
 in high gain mode? not AS badly, but still much higher than my 300ohm Senn's. I think I run the vali 2 pot around 3-4 "o'clock" with my wife's 600ohm DT880s.

 for comparison, I run about 11-12 "o'clock" with my Senn HD-650s in hi gain mode, and the same with my NAD HP50s or PSB M4U1 in low gain mode (both of the latter two known as being pretty easy to drive).
  
 maybe I just like loud music.


----------



## LazyBonesIH

faber65 said:


> I agree with Goodguccigoo.
> The EH6922 Gold works pretty well with the Vali2.
> Of course here I am considering the value for money.
> And I like the Vali2 also with my Grado, not only with the Senns.


 
  
 You are correct, the EH6922 Gold does sound excellent. One thing I have noticed, depending on which tube / valve is in the Vali 2, the pop just after switch on varies in volume, the 6N23P gave quite a loud pop, the pop from the 6FQ7 was barely noticeable, the EH6922 was slightly louder.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

This is why I don't plug my headphones in till it does the audible pop.


----------



## Faber65

waytoocrazy said:


> This is why I don't plug my headphones in till it does the audible pop.




Smart practice!


----------



## Faber65

lazybonesih said:


> faber65 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with Goodguccigoo.
> ...




Maybe to define the EH6922 as excellent it is slightly a stretch, but yes: the value for money it's there. 
Said so, I would like to go back to the pop caused by the tubes as in my case the situation is exactly the opposite: both 6FQ7 that I have (the standard one and the spare both from Schiit) have a louder pop than the EH6922. I am not an expert in this field, but I wonder if it could be caused by the production batch or the manufacturer process. 
Anyhow, now I'm tempted to buy also a Mullard NOS, but maybe it is too much for the small Vali. 
Better to save the money or spend it in music. 
Is there anyone that has already tried and that may give me an opinion before I pull the trigger and I spend 80-90 bucks?


----------



## Faber65

By the way: I have seen that online the Philips ECC88 JAN made in USA is quite popular. I am wondering if there are relevant differences between the one marked in green and the one marked in blue.


----------



## LazyBonesIH

faber65 said:


> Maybe to define the EH6922 as excellent it is slightly a stretch, but yes: the value for money it's there.
> Said so, I would like to go back to the pop caused by the tubes as in my case the situation is exactly the opposite: both 6FQ7 that I have (the standard one and the spare both from Schiit) have a louder pop than the EH6922. I am not an expert in this field, but I wonder if it could be caused by the production batch or the manufacturer process.
> Anyhow, now I'm tempted to buy also a Mullard NOS, but maybe it is too much for the small Vali.
> Better to save the money or spend it in music.
> Is there anyone that has already tried and that may give me an opinion before I pull the trigger and I spend 80-90 bucks?


 
 Okay, Excellent is a bit of a stretch as a superlative. Think I paid around the £ 20 mark with delivery, for the valve / tube, so agreed good VFM. Yikes, 80-90 bucks, round £ 54-60, just checked where I bought the EH6922, an ECC88 Mullard NOS is £ 25, though currently out of stock, at £ 25 I might be tempted.


----------



## Faber65

lazybonesih said:


> faber65 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe to define the EH6922 as excellent it is slightly a stretch, but yes: the value for money it's there.
> ...




This is the cheapest that I could find online: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=ECC88+MULLARD+MADE+IN+ENGLAND+RING+GETTER+TYPE+TESTED+NEW+AND+UNUSED+MULLARD+CODES+IN+GLASS&_sacat=0

Here in China the market is crazy and, provided that the valves are not fake, everything is very expensive. The mark-up is huge.

I am considering those, shipped to Italy at the address of my parents.


----------



## HOWIE13

faber65 said:


> This is the cheapest that I could find online: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=ECC88+MULLARD+MADE+IN+ENGLAND+RING+GETTER+TYPE+TESTED+NEW+AND+UNUSED+MULLARD+CODES+IN+GLASS&_sacat=0
> 
> Here in China the market is crazy and, provided that the valves are not fake, everything is very expensive. The mark-up is huge.
> 
> I am considering those, shipped to Italy at the address of my parents.


 
 Very good tube-and, in my experience, very reliable Seller.


----------



## Tuneslover

lazybonesih said:


> You are correct, the EH6922 Gold does sound excellent. One thing I have noticed, depending on which tube / valve is in the Vali 2, the pop just after switch on varies in volume, the 6N23P gave quite a loud pop, the pop from the 6FQ7 was barely noticeable, the EH6922 was slightly louder.




It's kind of annoying, always having to remember to unplug headphones to avoid the popping sound when turning on my Vali2. Still much much worse when I forget to turn off my powered speakers (with HP unplugged) and then turn on the Vali2 for next listening session!


----------



## RickB

All this worry about popping sounds is much ado about nothing. If there really was a chance this could damage your headphones/speakers, then Schiit would warn you about it in the manual.


----------



## Tuneslover

rickb said:


> All this worry about popping sounds is much ado about nothing. If there really was a chance this could damage your headphones/speakers, then Schiit would warn you about it in the manual.




To be clear, I agree that it may not be harmful to one's equipment but it's pretty annoying to my ears.


----------



## RickB

tuneslover said:


> To be clear, I agree that it may not be harmful to one's equipment but it's pretty annoying to my ears.


 
  
 Understood.


----------



## HOWIE13

tuneslover said:


> To be clear, I agree that it may not be harmful to one's equipment but it's pretty annoying to my ears.


 
 I had a bad experience a couple of years ago with a cheap tube amp. Switched on and there was an immediate loud crack from the headphones and the left driver was broken-pushed right out of its housing and sticking out of the protective grill!
 I was lucky I wasn't wearing the cans at the time otherwise my hearing might have been damaged too.
 I then read up that some amps don't have protection circuits and at 'switch on' a faulty tube can result in a DC surge which can damage the headphone drivers. I presume that's what happened to me.
 I would expect the Vali to have a built in protection circuit to prevent this.
 Maybe a fault in the can caused the problem, but thought I should just mention that unpleasant experience.


----------



## RickB

howie13 said:


> I had a bad experience a couple of years ago with a cheap tube amp. Switched on and there was an immediate loud crack from the headphones and the left driver was broken-pushed right out of its housing and sticking out of the protective grill!
> I was lucky I wasn't wearing the cans at the time otherwise my hearing might have been damaged too.
> I then read up that some amps don't have protection circuits and at 'switch on' a faulty tube can result in a DC surge which can damage the headphone drivers. I presume that's what happened to me.
> I would expect the Vali to have a built in protection circuit to prevent this.
> Maybe a fault in the can caused the problem, but thought I should just mention that unpleasant experience.




All of Schiit's amps (except for the Valhalla 2) have mute delays.


----------



## LazyBonesIH

goodguccigoo said:


> What are you think of getting next lol?


 
  
 Well, the white van man brought me a present this afternoon...... Haven't listened to them yet, though looking forward to trying them - HiFiMan HE-400i   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Am also tempted to buy the tube / valve Faber65 is considering, the Mullard ECC88 NOS for my Vali 2


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

lazybonesih said:


> Well, the white van man brought me a present this afternoon...... Haven't listened to them yet, though looking forward to trying them - HiFiMan HE-400i
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 How is 400i different from 400s?


----------



## Vigrith

goodguccigoo said:


> How is 400i different from 400s?


 
  
 The 400i is more treble emphasized, bit more airy, arguably a bit more fatiguing. I prefer the 400S, it's not a gigantic difference however (to my ears with my gear).


----------



## Faber65

howie13 said:


> faber65 said:
> 
> 
> > This is the cheapest that I could find online: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=ECC88+MULLARD+MADE+IN+ENGLAND+RING+GETTER+TYPE+TESTED+NEW+AND+UNUSED+MULLARD+CODES+IN+GLASS&_sacat=0
> ...


 

 Well, at the end I bought three...
  
http://www.ebay.it/itm/260662166606?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
http://www.ebay.it/itm/262042909382?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
http://www.ebay.it/itm/260577827114?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I am curious to try


----------



## LazyBonesIH

faber65 said:


> Well, at the end I bought three...
> 
> http://www.ebay.it/itm/260662166606?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your second link is where I bought the 6FQ7/6CG7 that I've got, in fact you can see my purchase in the purchase history, I like this tube, hope you enjoy your purchases. At the moment, I am trying the PCC88 I bought from same place, enjoying Enya with new headphones on Schiit/Sonos system. Just been a bad lad and bought one of these - ECC88 VINTAGE MULLARD 'D' GETTER NOS VALVE/TUBE (LC22) to try


----------



## claud W

I have ordered a 1975 Voshkod 6n23p from the Ukraine and a more recent Sovteck from Upscale Audio. a Platinum and cyroed one. It looks exactly like my own Sovtek. Does not sound as good yet because it is new. The 75 Voshkod won't be here till later in the month.


----------



## claud W

My Voshkod 6N23P arrived today. 8 days from the Ukraine for $8 shipping for a $40 tube. Lots of bubble trap and a photogenic box. Right off it sounds better balanced than the other two with more bass I think I found my tube. I'm going to order a spare. V
  
 ali 2 is a killer with a good tube in it.


----------



## tdonnellyem

where did you order the voskhod tube?  eBay?


----------



## claud W

On Ebay at Western Bid inc. and just ordered a 1975 gray shields from them too.


----------



## volly

The Voskhod will probably be my last tube for the v2. Hoping to move up something bigger.

I've been listening to a pcc88 tungsram and i will say it is a very very good tube. Very musical with great detail. 

If you can get one, try one out!


----------



## claud W

I have lots of high end NOS tubes. As you might have seen, I started out using a Telfunken CCA. I then decided to investigate the much cheaper russian tubes when I was breaking in my WyWires Red headphone cable on my 702s. It was very dynamic.  The current tube is a 75 silver shield Voskhod and it gets better each time I listen to it. I have the grey shield coming.  Yes, I have a high end Schiit headphone system, but this little Schiit computer audio system sounds real good driving my midfi AKG 702s and Senn 600s. Unless you loose your mind like I did and desire cutting edge gear, this one is really all you need. 
 To put a perspective on my opinion, my previous headphone system was a Lyr and Bifrost Uber.


----------



## Rewkie

What do you guys think about the vali 2 with HD650s?  Wondering if i should get the vali 2 or save up a bit more money and get a BH crack.
  
 Also, I know the vali 2 is a hybrid, how much of an impact is that going to have on the effectiveness of tube rolling?


----------



## h2rulz

rewkie said:


> What do you guys think about the vali 2 with HD650s?  Wondering if i should get the vali 2 or save up a bit more money and get a BH crack.
> 
> Also, I know the vali 2 is a hybrid, how much of an impact is that going to have on the effectiveness of tube rolling?


 

 Personally, for the HD650 I would save up for the BH crack. But I'm sure there are other opinions out there.
  
 And the Vali 2 is great for rolling tubes for cheap (single tube). I had a lot of fun trying out different tubes.


----------



## sayitaintsoap

How about the Vali 2 with Grado RS2e? I've got a Little Dot 1+ with Voshkod 6h1p-ev tubes and no complaints but I'm still within my return period with Amazon and am wondering how the Vali 2 stacks up.


----------



## Skarecrow77

rewkie said:


> What do you guys think about the vali 2 with HD650s?  Wondering if i should get the vali 2 or save up a bit more money and get a BH crack.
> 
> Also, I know the vali 2 is a hybrid, how much of an impact is that going to have on the effectiveness of tube rolling?


 
  
 I think it works very well.
  
 Used to have a Perreaux SHX-1 solid state (~$300 msrp, flavor-of-the-month circa 2004) powering my 650s, and I like them much better with my Vali 2. The veil is just about gone. They're relaxed and very musical. They've even got bass I never knew they had.


----------



## whaiyun

Finding a used Vali 2 has been extremely difficult.


----------



## ToddHealy

They have been backordered for a little while and are extremely popular.  People are paying new+ prices to buy used units on ebay.  There is currently 1 up for auction at $172.50.


----------



## Rewkie

toddhealy said:


> They have been backordered for a little while and are extremely popular.  People are paying new+ prices to buy used units on ebay.  There is currently 1 up for auction at $172.50.


 
 Either they just went back in stock or the "back ordered" listing is a glitch.  Just ordered one yesterday, shipped today.


----------



## AviP

Zeos' Review:
@ZeosPantera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHOG0MOcwTU


----------



## WayTooCrazy

avip said:


> Zeos' Review:
> @ZeosPantera
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHOG0MOcwTU


 

 I agree with his review of the "dead stock" Vali 2 not being really impressive. I wish the person who lent it though, sent a couple of different tubes for him to try. I very much feel that the stock tube was designed to be transparent and when I rolled in the BEL E88C, it very much does sound different and smoother, yet more detailed.


----------



## whaiyun

What would be a nice bass emphasis tube for the Vali 2? I'm trying to pair with a AKG K701.


----------



## Tuneslover

tuneslover said:


> And the "King of the Castle" is...


 
 @AviP, thanks for pointing out Zeos' youtube.com "review" of the Vali  2.
  
 As you can see I own both the V2 and the Magni2U.  I didn't do extensive listening and comparing of these 2 amps but I did take some time briefly listening to a few very familiar tunes.  The setup shown in the picture did require me to switch using the SYS, as well as moving the headphone plug from one to amp to the other amp so yeah it took something like 10-15 seconds to do the switch-over.  However my familiarity of the selected tunes, I believe, allowed for a reasonably accurate comparison. 
  
 In general I cannot disagree with Zeos' remarks, in other words both of these amps sound very much alike.  Plain and simple to my ears the V2 sounds slightly warmer with a touch more bass (JJE88CC Gold Pin tube).  Both of these amps drive my HD650's very nicely.  I decided to keep the Magni2U on my iMac rig and returned the V2 to my bedside rig.  Both serve their respective purposes quite satisfyingly thank you.


----------



## AviP

tuneslover said:


> @AviP, thanks for pointing out Zeos' youtube.com "review" of the Vali  2.
> 
> As you can see I own both the V2 and the Magni2U.  I didn't do extensive listening and comparing of these 2 amps but I did take some time briefly listening to a few very familiar tunes.  The setup shown in the picture did require me to switch using the SYS, as well as moving the headphone plug from one to amp to the other amp so yeah it took something like 10-15 seconds to do the switch-over.  However my familiarity of the selected tunes, I believe, allowed for a reasonably accurate comparison.
> 
> In general I cannot disagree with Zeos' remarks, in other words both of these amps sound very much alike.  Plain and simple to my ears the V2 sounds slightly warmer with a touch more bass (JJE88CC Gold Pin tube).  Both of these amps drive my HD650's very nicely.  I decided to keep the Magni2U on my iMac rig and returned the V2 to my bedside rig.  Both serve their respective purposes quite satisfyingly thank you.


 
 I have a Magni 2 and I was thinking of also getting the Vali 2 (and a tubey tube to replace the stock tube) for some tubey sound. Based on your experience, is the change that small that it's not worth it? If it matters, I don't have golden ears, but I appreciate good quality sound.
 Also, is that an Audioengine a2+?


----------



## Tuneslover

avip said:


> I have a Magni 2 and I was thinking of also getting the Vali 2 (and a tubey tube to replace the stock tube) for some tubey sound. Based on your experience, is the change that small that it's not worth it? If it matters, I don't have golden ears, but I appreciate good quality sound.
> Also, is that an Audioengine a2+?




To me the differences are minimal but the tube preamping does provide a bit of tube warmth. Of course tube rolling gives the V2 versatility in "customizing" the sound which the Magni cannot do. Both amps have plenty of power (the Magni slightly more). I have 2 separate listening locations (actually 3) so having both Schiit amps works for me. I like both amps and can switch them around between both listening stations. If you didn't own either amp and were trying to decide between them I would recommend the V2.

Yes those are Audioengine A2's.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

tuneslover said:


> Yes those are Audioengine A2's.


 
 You have a subwoofer with those as well?


----------



## Tuneslover

waytoocrazy said:


> You have a subwoofer with those as well?



No I don't.


----------



## Hofy

I am only half way through reading this thread, so I am sorry if these questions have already been asked/answered. 
#1 In regards to the preamp out, is this just a volume controlled tube buffer out or does it have amplified gain also? 

#2 Has anyone changed out the overly bright LED? Or at least used a small piece of lighting gel to change the color/dim it?


----------



## AviP

hofy said:


> I am only half way through reading this thread, so I am sorry if these questions have already been asked/answered.
> #1 In regards to the preamp out, is this just a volume controlled tube buffer out or does it have amplified gain also?
> 
> #2 Has anyone changed out the overly bright LED? Or at least used a small piece of lighting gel to change the color/dim it?


 
 Regarding #2 you can try these: https://www.amazon.com/LightDims-Silver-Electronics-Appliances-Packaging/dp/B009WT7PYO I've been thinking of getting them, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.


----------



## Hofy

I have seen those. Not really what I am after as the LED lights up the inside too and shines out the vent holes around the tube.


----------



## Tuneslover

hofy said:


> I have seen those. Not really what I am after as the LED lights up the inside too and shines out the vent holes around the tube.


 
 I have the LightDims and they work quite well.  I stuck 2 of them over the V2 LED and that dims it to my satisfaction.  Yes there is some light coming out of the heat holes near the tube and you may be correct about that light originating from the LED but I thought it was part of the tube light...who knows.  Anyway, I have my V2 on my bedside table and I listen briefly before going to sleep and sure there is some light but it's mostly from the tube.  Personally that soft warm tube glow looks pretty cool, not bothersome at all.


----------



## claud W

My 1975 6n23p grey shield arrived today from the Ukraine. In a few days I will need to put 100 hours on my Wywires Red hardwired Fostex Massdrop too headphones and I will burn in headphones, headphone cable and new tube. I don't really know if the grey shield will out perform the silver shield I am listening to as I type


----------



## Tuneslover

tuneslover said:


> To me the differences are minimal but the tube preamping does provide a bit of tube warmth. Of course tube rolling gives the V2 versatility in "customizing" the sound which the Magni cannot do. Both amps have plenty of power (the Magni slightly more). I have 2 separate listening locations (actually 3) so having both Schiit amps works for me. I like both amps and can switch them around between both listening stations. If you didn't own either amp and were trying to decide between them I would recommend the V2.


 
 I should note that I have purchased a couple of additional tubes and I must say that the balance and matched JJ E88CC (gold pin) is my favourite.  It presents a very detailed and wide soundscape that excels at instrument and vocal separation with my source FiiO X5ii.  I also have the balance & matched Elektro Harmonix 6922 (non- gold pin) and I find it a bit dark and muddy sounding but works well with bright recordings.


----------



## Emries

Quick question about the vali 2 and pairing it up with Senn HD600: volume aside, would using hi gain damage the headphones or other equipment like DACs? What gain setting do you guys use with it?
  
 And while we're at, since I haven't used a tube amp before, what are some tube recommendations for the vali 2 or is whatever tube it came with pretty good?


----------



## joeexp

emries said:


> Quick question about the vali 2 and pairing it up with Senn HD600: volume aside, would using hi gain damage the headphones or other equipment like DACs? What gain setting do you guys use with it?
> 
> And while we're at, since I haven't used a tube amp before, what are some tube recommendations for the vali 2 or is whatever tube it came with pretty good?


 

 Hi gain - has more measured distortion - but sounds better. ….


----------



## HOWIE13

emries said:


> Quick question about the vali 2 and pairing it up with Senn HD600: volume aside, would using hi gain damage the headphones or other equipment like DACs? What gain setting do you guys use with it?
> 
> And while we're at, since I haven't used a tube amp before, what are some tube recommendations for the vali 2 or is whatever tube it came with pretty good?


 
 High gain is fine but start with the vol knob low down and raise slowly. I usually end up at about 10-11 o'clock but you will probably be different.
 I hear a faint hum in the background with many tubes, on high gain  with the HD 600 and 650 and try to use low gain if the music volume goes loud enough as there is no hum on low gain.
 I listen mainly to Classical which tends to be recorded at lower levels and has very quiet passages and gaps when the hum can become distracting.


----------



## EmiG310

.


----------



## Skarecrow77

emries said:


> Quick question about the vali 2 and pairing it up with Senn HD600: volume aside, would using hi gain damage the headphones or other equipment like DACs? What gain setting do you guys use with it?
> 
> And while we're at, since I haven't used a tube amp before, what are some tube recommendations for the vali 2 or is whatever tube it came with pretty good?


 
  
 I use it in high gain mode with my HD 650s. They're 300ohm cans that aren't particularly sensitive. That's exactly what high gain mode is for.
  
 I can run them in low gain mode, but I have to use about 90-95% of the volume pot to get them to a decent volume. 
  
 Coincidentally, roughly "12 o'clock" on my vali 2 is my favored listening volume on my HD 650s in high gain, and also for my NAD VISO HP50s in low gain mode. Very convenient that I don't need to change the dial when changing cans, all I need to do is just flip the gain switch.


----------



## alazhaarp

emries said:


> Quick question about the vali 2 and pairing it up with Senn HD600: volume aside, would using hi gain damage the headphones or other equipment like DACs? What gain setting do you guys use with it?


 
  
 I use hi gain with my HD 600. I just find it sounds better with high gain (for me).


----------



## FishCommander

Hello, brand new to the forum. Currently running a Vali 2/Modi 2U with Fostex Mk3's and Shure HPAEC1540's.
  
 I'm getting a crackling noise in the headphone from time to time and trying to troubleshoot what the problem is. I've tried swapping out the cable and adapter but to not avail. Not sure if it's the headphones but I was thinking it might be the Vali 2 tube. Has anyone experienced this before?
  
 Thanks in advance,
 Fish


----------



## HOWIE13

fishcommander said:


> Hello, brand new to the forum. Currently running a Vali 2/Modi 2U with Fostex Mk3's and Shure HPAEC1540's.
> 
> I'm getting a crackling noise in the headphone from time to time and trying to troubleshoot what the problem is. I've tried swapping out the cable and adapter but to not avail. Not sure if it's the headphones but I was thinking it might be the Vali 2 tube. Has anyone experienced this before?
> 
> ...


 
 Could be lots of possibilities but I've had cracking noises when the tube isn't connecting properly in the amp's socket. Checking pins are not bent and giving them a good clean has helped.


----------



## FishCommander

howie13 said:


> Could be lots of possibilities but I've had cracking noises when the tube isn't connecting properly in the amp's socket. Checking pins are not bent and giving them a good clean has helped.


 
 Tube and pins look clean. Only been running it for a few weeks now and problem just started (for context).
  
 For what it's worth there are some markings on the tube that don't really mean much to me at the moment.. They are:
  
     4
 BQ7A
  
 I wiped the tube down to get any smudge or fingerprints off of it. Re-installed firmly. I'll monitor to see if anything changes over the next day or so. Have to hit the hay now 
  
 I feel like its seated properly now for sure.
  
 Thanks HOWIE13


----------



## WayTooCrazy

On my Little Dot I+, I used to get crackling from the Tube a lot. I ended up getting these from my local Rat Shack...


 It got rid of the crackling (sprayed both the tube socket and the tube pins). I sprayed down the socket on my Vali2 before I ever inserted a tube into it, so I don't know if that would've exhibited any crackling.


----------



## Letmebefrank

fishcommander said:


> Hello, brand new to the forum. Currently running a Vali 2/Modi 2U with Fostex Mk3's and Shure HPAEC1540's.
> 
> I'm getting a crackling noise in the headphone from time to time and trying to troubleshoot what the problem is. I've tried swapping out the cable and adapter but to not avail. Not sure if it's the headphones but I was thinking it might be the Vali 2 tube. Has anyone experienced this before?
> 
> ...




I was getting this occasional crackling also. It was my cell phone being too close to the amp, I had to move it to the opposite side of my desk, and my wireless network usb stick as well. Tube are very sensitive to EMI, some more than others. My EH 6922 was worse with this than my JJ E88CC gold pin. Once I moved them away the crackling stopped.


----------



## HOWIE13

fishcommander said:


> Tube and pins look clean. Only been running it for a few weeks now and problem just started (for context).
> 
> For what it's worth there are some markings on the tube that don't really mean much to me at the moment.. They are:
> 
> ...


 
 Fingers crossed it will be alright.


----------



## HOWIE13

letmebefrank said:


> I was getting this occasional crackling also. It was my cell phone being too close to the amp, I had to move it to the opposite side of my desk, and my wireless network usb stick as well. Tube are very sensitive to EMI, some more than others. My EH 6922 was worse with this than my JJ E88CC gold pin. Once I moved them away the crackling stopped.


 
 That reminds me I had a buzzing problem with my wife's phone too-though mine was alright.


----------



## HOWIE13

waytoocrazy said:


> On my Little Dot I+, I used to get crackling from the Tube a lot. I ended up getting these from my local Rat Shack...
> 
> 
> It got rid of the crackling (sprayed both the tube socket and the tube pins). I sprayed down the socket on my Vali2 before I ever inserted a tube into it, so I don't know if that would've exhibited any crackling.


 
 I love Deoxit.
  
 With really dirty pins I sand first, then spray with Deoxit. It doesn't seem to remove the tube print the same way as alcohol did, but I'm still careful to avoid spraying the glass, just in case.


----------



## FishCommander

howie13 said:


> I love Deoxit.
> 
> With really dirty pins I sand first, then spray with Deoxit. It doesn't seem to remove the tube print the same way as alcohol did, but I'm still careful to avoid spraying the glass, just in case.


 
  
 Just got home so I'll be monitoring the situation tonight. If I still have problems I may try this as well, thanks!


----------



## dbaker1981

Hi,
I'm looking for a tube amp to run my grado sr80e for my rock setup. I was just wondering if this would be a good choice or would it be to much for them to handle? Thanks for the help.


----------



## Faber65

dbaker1981 said:


> Hi,
> I'm looking for a tube amp to run my grado sr80e for my rock setup. I was just wondering if this would be a good choice or would it be to much for them to handle? Thanks for the help.




You mean this?



I am satisfied, but the only real judge are your ears.

Cheers.


----------



## dbaker1981

Sweet I'm thinking I'm going to pull the trigger on one.


----------



## Faber65

May I suggest you to consider also other options?
I also use the iCan and it works very well too. 
Just two different signatures.


----------



## dbaker1981

faber65 said:


> May I suggest you to consider also other options?
> I also use the iCan and it works very well too.
> Just two different signatures.





I'd be open to it but I'm looking at around $200


----------



## dbaker1981

faber65 said:


> You mean this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Do you have any recommendations on different tubes?


----------



## Faber65

dbaker1981 said:


> faber65 said:
> 
> 
> > You mean this?
> ...


 
  
 IMHO, the choice of the tubes is even more difficult than chosing the amplifier.
 But since you asked me my honest suggestion is to get familiar to the Vali 2 by using the stock tube.
 Those people in Schiit know what they do and the standard tube is good enough to start.
 Then I suggest you to set a budget for the tube proportionate to the cost of the amplifier, let's say 25-40 USD.
 In that range the choice is huge and my preferences within the new tubes are on the Electro Harmonix 6922.
 Within the NOS I choose the Philips, but I think that in that price range there must be a lot of "good" ones.


----------



## Skarecrow77

I'm a fan of the Philips PCC88 in the $20 -to- $45 range if you're using closed cans. They do a good job of voodooing up an impressive soundstage.


----------



## Faber65

@Skarecrow77
Exactly the Philips tube that I have.


----------



## FishCommander

letmebefrank said:


> I was getting this occasional crackling also. It was my cell phone being too close to the amp, I had to move it to the opposite side of my desk, and my wireless network usb stick as well. Tube are very sensitive to EMI, some more than others. My EH 6922 was worse with this than my JJ E88CC gold pin. Once I moved them away the crackling stopped.


 
  
  
 Hello new friends!
  
 Wanted to post an update and also say @Letmebefrank may have hit the nail on the head with this one. I waved my cellphone over my tube and it gave feedback. Tried again to confirm, confirmed. It may have been a combination of things but it is certainly sensitive to frequency my phone is sending/receiving.
  
 Re-seating the the tube in the socket seemed to help as well, at least it appears to have.
  
 Anyway thanks again.


----------



## Letmebefrank

fishcommander said:


> Hello new friends!
> 
> Wanted to post an update and also say @Letmebefrank may have hit the nail on the head with this one. I waved my cellphone over my tube and it gave feedback. Tried again to confirm, confirmed. It may have been a combination of things but it is certainly sensitive to frequency my phone is sending/receiving.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Awesome! Always happy to help


----------



## HOWIE13

fishcommander said:


> Hello new friends!
> 
> Wanted to post an update and also say @Letmebefrank may have hit the nail on the head with this one. I waved my cellphone over my tube and it gave feedback. Tried again to confirm, confirmed. It may have been a combination of things but it is certainly sensitive to frequency my phone is sending/receiving.
> 
> ...


 
 Glad it's working okay now.


----------



## LazyBonesIH

howie13 said:


> Very good tube-and, in my experience, very reliable Seller.


 
 I can't fault the seller, the ECC88 tube I purchased developed a fault, one channel was cutting out after 40 minutes or so, came back when I switched the Vali 2 off then back on, after a delay, then finally got a constant buzzing. I reported the issue to the seller yesterday, replacement arrived today, I didn't check the code on the one I sent back, but the one I received today has GA2 49A on the underside, I don't understand the codes etc, 
  
 Have yet to try the replacement, though appreciate the excellent service.


----------



## dbaker1981

dbaker1981 said:


> Do you have any recommendations on different tubes?




I noticed you had a headband wrap. Where could I get me one of those?


----------



## Faber65

dbaker1981 said:


> dbaker1981 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have any recommendations on different tubes?
> ...




I bought it on Amazon, but I suggest you to google for: Beyerdynamic headband replacement.
I am sure that you will find many options.


----------



## Faber65

faber65 said:


> dbaker1981 said:
> 
> 
> > dbaker1981 said:
> ...




Schiit! We went off topic.
Sorry to the group.


----------



## The Lamonster

Hi guys, I have the Fidelio X2s and the original Vali.  Would I benefit in any way to replace my Vali with the Vali 2?  Is there a big difference in sound quality?  I'm a pretty casual listener and probably wouldn't switch out the stock tube unless there was some mass consensus as to a specific tube that would sound way better.


----------



## h2rulz

Difference in sound, yes.
 Difference is quality? I'm not too sure if I can say one if clearly better than the other.
  
 But the original Vali is much more tubey than the Vali2 with stock tubes.
 However, there are clear advantages of the Vali 2.
 The most important being the removal of the ringing noise and the ability to roll tubes.
 Personally, even when paired with a warm tube (Mullard) the Vali2 didn't sound as tubey as the original Vali.
 But, that's just my experience...YMMV
  
 I'd say get the Vali2 and try it for the 2 weeks or so return window Schiit provides and decide for yourself.


----------



## Rossliew

jbassfox said:


> Out of curiosity to anyone with a pair of 600 ohm Beyers, how high do you set your volume pot? Is it normal to crank it almost all the way to get a nice loud listening experience? I know the 600s require more juice, I just didn't think it'd be this much.
> 
> Edit: Nevermind. No idea what changed, but now I'm floating a lot closer to 12'.




Been driving my T1 2nd gen with the Vali 2/Bifrost MB combo and on high gain I get good volume at about 10 o clock. The position of the volume pot depends a lot on the gain of the Dac/source used.


----------



## HOWIE13

the lamonster said:


> Hi guys, I have the Fidelio X2s and the original Vali.  Would I benefit in any way to replace my Vali with the Vali 2?  Is there a big difference in sound quality?  I'm a pretty casual listener and probably wouldn't switch out the stock tube unless there was some mass consensus as to a specific tube that would sound way better.


 
 If it's tubey warm sound you crave in Vali 2 I found _'FrankenVali2'_ the warmest, which still retains detail.
  
 Dual 7193 type tubes (K-R or even warmer RCA) with an appropriate adapter and socket extender from eBay would do it.


----------



## Tuneslover

rossliew said:


> Been driving my T1 2nd gen with the Vali 2/Bifrost MB combo and on high gain I get good volume at about 10 o clock. The position of the volume pot depends a lot on the gain of the Dac/source used.


y

I too have the v2 and Bifrost MB and find that the Vali2 must be in high gain mode to drive my HD650 and HE500 satisfactorly. Since then I have moved the Vali2 out of this setup and replaced it with the more powerful Lake People G109S headphone amp. It's definitely driving my headphones with more impact than the V2 but decided to also switch it to high gain. So I don't know if the MB gain is unusually low but my headphones definitely need gain and juice to get them sounding best.

I moved the Vali 2 to my bedroom setup, which is fed by a FiiO X5ii DAP via its coaxial output (which utilizes the X5's built in DAC), along with the 80 ohm Beyerdynamics DT1350 headphone and find that in low gain the Vali2 sounds good but in high gain sounds much better still.


----------



## numberandlocation

How does the preamp function of the Vali 2 compare to that of the Valhalla 2?


----------



## Rossliew

tuneslover said:


> y
> 
> I too have the v2 and Bifrost MB and find that the Vali2 must be in high gain mode to drive my HD650 and HE500 satisfactorly. Since then I have moved the Vali2 out of this setup and replaced it with the more powerful Lake People G109S headphone amp. It's definitely driving my headphones with more impact than the V2 but decided to also switch it to high gain. So I don't know if the MB gain is unusually low but my headphones definitely need gain and juice to get them sounding best.
> 
> I moved the Vali 2 to my bedroom setup, which is fed by a FiiO X5ii DAP via its coaxial output (which utilizes the X5's built in DAC), along with the 80 ohm Beyerdynamics DT1350 headphone and find that in low gain the Vali2 sounds good but in high gain sounds much better still.




On low gain , I get a smoother, warmer sound but the drawback is I need to use more of the volume pot, close to 11-12 o clock. No more than that or my ears hurt. I listen predominantly to metal so ymmv. Compared to other more expensive amps, I would say the Vali 2 is a real fire breathing monster in its own right. Solid sounding and scales well with better DACs and tube rolling.


----------



## Skarecrow77

My 32ohm NAD HP50s are too loud on high gain. So I use low gain.
 My 300ohm Senn HD-650s are too quiet on low gain. So I use high gain.
  
 That's... that's pretty much about it. I can't really tell any difference in sound between high and low other than volume (and, unless I'm mistaken, you're not supposed to?)


----------



## joeexp

skarecrow77 said:


> My 32ohm NAD HP50s are too loud on high gain. So I use low gain.
> My 300ohm Senn HD-650s are too quiet on low gain. So I use high gain.
> 
> That's... that's pretty much about it. I can't really tell any difference in sound between high and low other than volume (and, unless I'm mistaken, you're not supposed to?)


 

 Not true - there is a clear difference between high/low gain. Everybody should be able to hear that.
 But although having clear/measurable distortion, High-Gain sounds better! Yeah!


----------



## RickB

I always preferred my Vali 2 on low gain, even with HD600s. Just sounded smoother and more relaxed.


----------



## RickB

numberandlocation said:


> How does the preamp function of the Vali 2 compare to that of the Valhalla 2?


 
 They're both good, but I didn't like the Vali 2 out to my Audioengine A2 speakers with the stock tube, it had bad synergy. When I rolled the 6CG7 EH tube, it sounded very pleasing, though.


----------



## HOWIE13

Which gain to use is a very personal thing.
  
 With the exception of my HE400, which has lower sensitivity I find, in general, lower impedance headphones ie less than around 100 Ohms are more comfortable on low gain and higher impedance ones on high gain.
  
 However, most of my headphones with most tubes do have a quiet background hum on high gain. Fortunately it's not usually intrusive on the music but is audible in gaps.


----------



## Rossliew

High gain just sounds louder/clearer and the opposite with low gain. This is with my high impedance headphones btw.


----------



## Skarecrow77

joeexp said:


> Not true - there is a clear difference between high/low gain. Everybody should be able to hear that.
> But although having clear/measurable distortion, High-Gain sounds better! Yeah!


 
  
 Uh, it is true. Because that's what I hear (or, don't hear, as the case may be). High gain at "12 o'clock" and low gain at "4 o'clock" sound identical to me on my HD-650s.

 What is it that you think I'm supposed to be hearing? Because unless I've completely misunderstood Schiit's engineering goals with high/low gain, you're not supposed to hear any difference other than volume... and I don't.


----------



## joeexp

skarecrow77 said:


> Uh, it is true. Because that's what I hear (or, don't hear, as the case may be). High gain at "12 o'clock" and low gain at "4 o'clock" sound identical to me on my HD-650s.
> 
> What is it that you think I'm supposed to be hearing? Because unless I've completely misunderstood Schiit's engineering goals with high/low gain, you're not supposed to hear any difference other than volume... and I don't.


 

 Great If you don't hear difference - then you don't have to worry about the gain switch any longer.
 The differences are quite subtle and negligent  really….


----------



## rgmffn

skarecrow77 said:


> Uh, it is true. Because that's what I hear (or, don't hear, as the case may be). High gain at "12 o'clock" and low gain at "4 o'clock" sound identical to me on my HD-650s.
> 
> What is it that you think I'm supposed to be hearing? Because unless I've completely misunderstood Schiit's engineering goals with high/low gain, you're not supposed to hear any difference other than volume... and I don't.


 
 For me, low gain sounds smoother, more mellow.  Hi gain is more aggressive, edgy. Listen for that. I prefer low gain for most HPs. Especially my HE400i's which are low impedance and my daily drivers.


----------



## TinearedOne

My AKG's like high gain more than low gain.  My amplifier will only run with low gain, because there's too much hum on high gain for the speaker setup.  It's nice to have the switch.


----------



## HOWIE13

rgmffn said:


> For me, low gain sounds smoother, more mellow.  Hi gain is more aggressive, edgy. Listen for that. I prefer low gain for most HPs. Especially my HE400i's which are low impedance and my daily drivers.


 
 I have HE400's and they need the high gain as although they have low impedance they also have relatively low sensitivity and just don't go loud enough to scale well with low gain. 
 Fortunately they are one of the few headphones that I don't hear a background hum with on the high gain.
 I don't know the HE400-i, I haven't listened to them- though would like to.


----------



## rgmffn

howie13 said:


> I have HE400's and they need the high gain as although they have low impedance they also have relatively low sensitivity and just don't go loud enough to scale well with low gain.
> Fortunately they are one of the few headphones that I don't hear a background hum with on the high gain.
> I don't know the HE400-i, I haven't listened to them- though would like to.


 
 Hmmm... My 400i's will go plenty loud enough on low gain for me. It must be our sources. I'm at around 1 o'clock, give or take depending on the media. I usually listen with the 400i's out of my Emotiva CD Player.


----------



## volly

Still a great little amp!!


----------



## HOWIE13

rgmffn said:


> Hmmm... My 400i's will go plenty loud enough on low gain for me. It must be our sources. I'm at around 1 o'clock, give or take depending on the media. I usually listen with the 400i's out of my Emotiva CD Player.


 
 Yes I'm all Classical and it's mostly recorded at a lower level to allow for ample dynamic range. That and source would likely explain it.


----------



## Tuneslover

volly said:


> Still a great little amp!!




It certainly is a cute little beast. I keep salivating over the Project Ember amp but don't know how much better it is than the Vali2. Perhaps it would drive my HD650 and HE500 better though.


----------



## alyx

Does anyone find the stock tube's bass muddy?


----------



## Faber65

alyx said:


> Does anyone find the stock tube's bass muddy?




Let's say that those are not the best in terms of definition. But that's a ten bucks tube (retail price).
I think they did on purpose to let us the pleasure to play with different tubes and have fun. 
To me the Vali2 is a toy, a beautiful toy. 
Perfect entry level for the ones that want to have some feeling about the tube amps without spending a fortune.


----------



## alyx

faber65 said:


> Let's say that those are not the best in terms of definition. But that's a ten bucks tube (retail price).
> I think they did on purpose to let us the pleasure to play with different tubes and have fun.
> To me the Vali2 is a toy, a beautiful toy.
> Perfect entry level for the ones that want to have some feeling about the tube amps without spending a fortune.


 
 Could you recommend me affordable tubes that are better than stock?


----------



## west0ne

alyx said:


> Could you recommend me affordable tubes that are better than stock?




I have been using the Electro Harmonix Gold. It has a more 'tubey' sound than stock and is reasonably cheap. I doubt think that the Vali 2 will ever produce a full-on tube sound no matter the tube used.


----------



## Faber65

west0ne said:


> alyx said:
> 
> 
> > Could you recommend me affordable tubes that are better than stock?
> ...




Yes, Electro Harmonix Gold or Philips.
Being hybrid it won't never sound as fully tube


----------



## Tuneslover

faber65 said:


> Let's say that those are not the best in terms of definition. But that's a ten bucks tube (retail price).
> I think they did on purpose to let us the pleasure to play with different tubes and have fun.
> To me the Vali2 is a toy, a beautiful toy.
> Perfect entry level for the ones that want to have some feeling about the tube amps without spending a fortune.




I received the Sylvania 6BQ7A stock tube with my V2 and actually loved how it sounded. Very good instrument separation, nice detail, forward mid range the way I like it. I began to explore the V2 tube rolling thread and decided to purchase a couple of popular tubes that everyone seemed to like, Electro Harmonix 6922 (regular) and JJ E88CC (gold pin). While each of these tubes sounded slightly different from one another I preferred the JJ. However compared to the stock tube they both sounded conjested and too dull to me. The bass definitely dug deeper (into the sub bass region) but the mid and treble was too boring to me. The stock tube just has so much more detail and life to it that I can't stop listening to my music because it sounds so good. I don't know but I keep wondering if both the JJ and EH tubes that I purchased might be defective because everyone else seems to describe their stock tube as sounding drab, the way I describe the JJ and EH. I don't care for how my HD650 &HE500 sound with the V2 (hi gain), it's as though the V2 strains to produce music so I use the much easier to drive Beyerdynamics DT1350 and HD598 with the Vali 2. These headphones are a real pleasure to listen to with the V2, more so withe stock Sylvania stock tube.


----------



## HPiper

I currently have the original Vali and I was wondering if it would be worth upgrading to the Vali 2 just on a sound quality basis. I don't really need any of the new features they added, but just based on the improvement in the sound would it be a good idea?


----------



## RickB

hpiper said:


> I currently have the original Vali and I was wondering if it would be worth upgrading to the Vali 2 just on a sound quality basis. I don't really need any of the new features they added, but just based on the improvement in the sound would it be a good idea?


 
 In my opinion, yes. The Vali 2 has noticeably lower distortion than the 1.


----------



## rgmffn

hpiper said:


> I currently have the original Vali and I was wondering if it would be worth upgrading to the Vali 2 just on a sound quality basis. I don't really need any of the new features they added, but just based on the improvement in the sound would it be a good idea?


 
 I have both. After getting the Vali 2, the org Vali just sits there. (Unless I want to experiment)


----------



## dbaker1981

Well ordered me a vali2 this weekend. Gets shipped out today. I'm excited to hear it hooked up to my Vinyl player.


----------



## The Lamonster

rgmffn said:


> I have both. After getting the Vali 2, the org Vali just sits there. (Unless I want to experiment)


 
 I love the tubey sound of the original Vali.  Does the Vali 2 stock tube sound similar?
  
 My main issue with Vali is the ringing.  Does Vali 2 improve in that regard?


----------



## RickB

the lamonster said:


> I love the tubey sound of the original Vali.  Does the Vali 2 stock tube sound similar?
> 
> My main issue with Vali is the ringing.  Does Vali 2 improve in that regard?


 
 The Vali 2 is not as tubey. It has no ringing or other microphonics.


----------



## smoorenc

I received my 6N23P REFLECTOR DOUBLE TRIODE TUBES from the Russian Reflector factory. They mad such a difference! It is hard to discribe how much clarity was brought forward! These tubes are fantastic!!


----------



## nwavesailor

tuneslover said:


> It certainly is a cute little beast. I keep salivating over the Project Ember amp but don't know how much better it is than the Vali2. Perhaps it would drive my HD650 and HE500 better though.


 

 I went from the Vali 2 to a Garage 1217 Starlight amp (not the Ember) and the improvement was not subtle. I really enjoyed the Vali 2 but when a used Starlight came up for sale I snagged it with my thought being I'd keep the one I liked better. From the very first song, I knew the Starlight was for me. It also allowed me to use  6 & 12 volt tubes. Buying used I was able to essentially move sideways with almost no additional $$$ spent after selling the Vali 2. I still am a big fan of the Schitt components and will likely own others down the road!


----------



## koven

tuneslover said:


> It certainly is a cute little beast. I keep salivating over the Project Ember amp but don't know how much better it is than the Vali2. Perhaps it would drive my HD650 and HE500 better though.


 
 i am also curious if ember II is a noticeable upgrade vs vali2 w/ hd6x0, anyone able to comment on this?


----------



## HOWIE13

koven said:


> i am also curious if ember II is a noticeable upgrade vs vali2 w/ hd6x0, anyone able to comment on this?


 
 Yes, Ember is a huge upgrade on Vali 2. I  immediately appreciated the improvement in sound. Vali2 is still good value for the money though.


----------



## koven

howie13 said:


> Yes, Ember is a huge upgrade on Vali 2. I  immediately appreciated the improvement in sound. Vali2 is still good value for the money though.


 
 interesting, thanks
 i might grab the ember II and keep vali as a pre


----------



## HOWIE13

koven said:


> interesting, thanks
> i might grab the ember II and keep vali as a pre


 
 I keep Vali by my bed- compact and easy to use in the dark.


----------



## Eric510

Holy smokes! I just got my Vali 2. Still waiting on the Modi 2 Uber shipment but... I have it rigged up with a 74' grey shield Reflektor and my Multibit Bifrost and... really sounds flipping good. Very very impressive for the price. Well done, Schiit!


----------



## dbaker1981

Received my vali2 this morning. Exactly what my vinyl player needed. All my records sound much fuller and natural. Was using a O2 and it was just to clean to sound right with records.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

dbaker1981 said:


> Received my vali2 this morning. Exactly what my vinyl player needed. All my records sound much fuller and natural. Was using a O2 and it was just to clean to sound right with records.


 
 I liked switching from the JDS Labs Element to the Vali 2 as well.


----------



## Tuneslover

Does anyone know if the 6n6p tube is compatible and will work properly with the Vali 2?


----------



## HOWIE13

tuneslover said:


> Does anyone know if the 6n6p tube is compatible and will work properly with the Vali 2?


 
 Mine didn't work.
 I think the max heater current Vali2 can manage is 0.6A so it can take 6SN7 tubes but 6N6P tubes are rated 0.75-0.80A.
 You could check with Schiit to be sure.


----------



## Faber65

tuneslover said:


> Does anyone know if the 6n6p tube is compatible and will work properly with the Vali 2?




There are several threads about tubes swapping in this website, I suggest you to take a look at the one as per the following.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/515848/safe-tube-replacements-chart-along-with-recommendations#post_12562431


----------



## Tuneslover

howie13 said:


> Mine didn't work.
> I think the max heater current Vali2 can manage is 0.6A so it can take 6SN7 tubes but 6N6P tubes are rated 0.75-0.80A.
> You could check with Schiit to be sure.


 
 Thanks for the quick response.  You're faster than Schiit, I emailed them a week ago but still haven't received a response.
  
 The reason I'm asking about the 6N6P is because people on the Project Ember thread seem to like that tube.  I have been debating about getting an Ember but wondered how that tube would sound in my Vali 2, assuming it's compatible.
  
 Interesting that you suggest the 6SN7 tube for the Vali 2 because the Ember needs a separate adaptor to run that tube.  The Vali 2 doesn't?  I don't know much about tubes.


----------



## HOWIE13

tuneslover said:


> Thanks for the quick response.  You're faster than Schiit, I emailed them a week ago but still haven't received a response.
> 
> The reason I'm asking about the 6N6P is because people on the Project Ember thread seem to like that tube.  I have been debating about getting an Ember but wondered how that tube would sound in my Vali 2, assuming it's compatible.
> 
> Interesting that you suggest the 6SN7 tube for the Vali 2 because the Ember needs a separate adaptor to run that tube.  The Vali 2 doesn't?  I don't know much about tubes.


 
 6N6P and 6SN7 tubes are often warmer, more typically 'tubey' sounding.
  
 You need a 6SN7 to ECC88 adapter plus an ECC88 socket saver to use 6SN7 tubes in Vali 2. I like them but on the other hand there are plenty of ECC88 tubes to choose from.


----------



## rnros

howie13 said:


> Mine didn't work.
> I think the max heater current Vali2 can manage is 0.6A so it can take 6SN7 tubes but 6N6P tubes are rated 0.75-0.80A.
> You could check with Schiit to be sure.


 

 I agree. The 6N6P may be pushing it a bit for the Vali2 on the required heater current, this tube is used as the output tube for the Valhalla2.
  
 Many choices in the ~300mA heaters: 6922/E88CC family and Russian 6N23P family.
  
 And choices in the ~600mA heaters: 6NIP family, many varieties, production years and factories to choose from. Also 6N5P.
  
 And also 5760/2C51/396A family of tubes (~300mA) with an adapter:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/619910/schiit-valhalla-tube-rolling-thread/480#post_12466041
 Adapter:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-5670-6N3-WE396A-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp-/191866855836?hash=item2cac27e19c:g:~IoAAOSw~OVWwGvh
  
 With this same adapter you can also try the Reflector 6N26P, leans a little bit in the warm direction and a very good tube overall. But it does have a slightly higher heater current than 600mA, maybe 5-7% higher. Has the same tube size as the 6N6P.
  
 So many choices, so little time


----------



## jfoxvol

rnros said:


> I agree. The 6N6P may be pushing it a bit for the Vali2 on the required heater current, this tube is used as the output tube for the Valhalla2.
> 
> Many choices in the ~300mA heaters: 6922/E88CC family and Russian 6N23P family.
> 
> ...


 
 I highly recommend a 6CG7 repro.  I picked up one for about 20 bucks at a depot for tubes and it's an amazing repro of the RCA from years past.  A NOS will run you at least 50 bucks.  Mike M recommended them.  I grabbed one and fully agree.  It's a longer plate (always a good thing) and looks silly but give it a try if you have the opportunity.


----------



## Logistics

Have to chime in, here: I was pleasantly surprised at the recent meet in SF, when I got to try the Vali 2, which was paired with the Modi 20, iirc. The amp sounds great! 

I don't recall which headphones were connected to it when I stepped up to the rig, but DecentLevi had a reason for taking them so I was forced to break out my low-brow Sony MDR-V700's to continue listening. This turned out to be a good thing because my cans sound excellent on this amp. It did however, show me that my cans could also benefit from a bit of damping as the high-end can become harsh as on the HD-800's (which I also had a chance to compare my Sony cans to, and I prefer the sound of my Sony's over both the HD-800's and the HD-800S') which is also less damped than its sister model.

My Sony cans are 24-Ohm, and at least the latest revisions have 3,000mW power -handling--I have seen older postings about my set claiming only 1,000mW power-handling, but either way, it paired great with my headphones.

The Vali 2 is a must-buy for me.


----------



## rnros

jfoxvol said:


> I highly recommend a 6CG7 repro.  I picked up one for about 20 bucks at a depot for tubes and it's an amazing repro of the RCA from years past.  A NOS will run you at least 50 bucks.  Mike M recommended them.  I grabbed one and fully agree.  It's a longer plate (always a good thing) and looks silly but give it a try if you have the opportunity.


 

 Thanks. Haven't tried 6CG7 yet, but I will look for some. I found ~400mA for heater current on first search...
 On the longer plate issue, I've heard the same comments, but have not been able to confirm for myself. There is also some opinion that long plate can increase microphonics. On the other hand, the 6N3P-E (shorter, tighter plates) was a curiosity to me, I didn't expect too much from it. I was very wrong with that initial opinion! Similar with the WE396A.


----------



## Faber65

jfoxvol said:


> I highly recommend a 6CG7 repro.  I picked up one for about 20 bucks at a depot for tubes and it's an amazing repro of the RCA from years past.  A NOS will run you at least 50 bucks.  Mike M recommended them.  I grabbed one and fully agree.  It's a longer plate (always a good thing) and looks silly but give it a try if you have the opportunity.




I agree on the 6CG7.
I bought my GE NOS at about $21 (shipment not included) here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6FQ7-6CG7-GE-USA-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-/262042909382?hash=item3d02f97ac6:g:KBYAAOSwiLdV8Vt2


----------



## rnros

Question I have about the GE 6CG7 is the parallel vs series filaments. Did they make a change around 1970 from parallel to series, or were these two options always available. How does this affect compatibility/implementation?


----------



## jfoxvol

rnros said:


> Thanks. Haven't tried 6CG7 yet, but I will look for some. I found ~400mA for heater current on first search...
> On the longer plate issue, I've heard the same comments, but have not been able to confirm for myself. There is also some opinion that long plate can increase microphonics. On the other hand, the 6N3P-E (shorter, tighter plates) was a curiosity to me, I didn't expect too much from it. I was very wrong with that initial opinion! Similar with the WE396A.


 
 I always specify low noise/low microphonics.  It's worth the extra two bucks.  I've not had any issues with mine.


----------



## jfoxvol

faber65 said:


> I agree on the 6CG7.
> I bought my GE NOS at about $21 (shipment not included) here:
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6FQ7-6CG7-GE-USA-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-/262042909382?hash=item3d02f97ac6:g:KBYAAOSwiLdV8Vt2


 
 Nice.  That's a good deal.  I have a NOS as well from a friend (GE as well, I believe).  I liked it a lot but found the RCA repro from Electroharmonix was quite a bit better.  Don't have detailed notes but the micro details and the overall tonality of the EH were better to my ears.
  
 https://tubedepot.com/products/electro-harmonix-6cg7-6fq7-eh-preamp-vacuum-tube


----------



## Faber65

jfoxvol said:


> Nice.  That's a good deal.  I have a NOS as well from a friend (GE as well, I believe).  I liked it a lot but found the RCA repro from Electroharmonix was quite a bit better.  Don't have detailed notes but the micro details and the overall tonality of the EH were better to my ears.
> 
> https://tubedepot.com/products/electro-harmonix-6cg7-6fq7-eh-preamp-vacuum-tube




I planned to try also the EH 6CG7 Gold Pins as well, but the I have been lazy... Or better to say that I stopped swapping tubes for a while to be more focused on what I consider the main target of owning a pair of can with an amp: enjoying the music.
But for sure I will follow your suggestion.

https://world.taobao.com/item/3394598117.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.9WC6hQ#detail


----------



## koven

what headphones do you guys think pairs well w/ vali2 besides hd6x0 and beyers? looking for a complement to hd600 but beyer sound too lean for me, same w/ grado i think, anything on the warmer side you guys can recommend? tried the he400s too but didnt like that either


----------



## dbaker1981

koven said:


> what headphones do you guys think pairs well w/ vali2 besides hd6x0 and beyers? looking for a complement to hd600 but beyer sound too lean for me, same w/ grado i think, anything on the warmer side you guys can recommend? tried the he400s too but didnt like that either






I use the Grado SR325e. It gives a very live sound.


----------



## HOWIE13

koven said:


> what headphones do you guys think pairs well w/ vali2 besides hd6x0 and beyers? looking for a complement to hd600 but beyer sound too lean for me, same w/ grado i think, anything on the warmer side you guys can recommend? tried the he400s too but didnt like that either


 
 HD 598, X1 or X2, will give you a warmer sound and they sound good for me with Vali2.


----------



## wonderbrah

the vali 2 pairs well with grados? I'm debating between it and the little dot 1


----------



## Tuneslover

howie13 said:


> HD 598, X1 or X2, will give you a warmer sound and they sound good for me with Vali2.




Yes I love the HD598 with my Vali 2. The Schiit Bifrost 4490 takes them to another level.


----------



## dbaker1981

wonderbrah said:


> the vali 2 pairs well with grados? I'm debating between it and the little dot 1




In my opinion yes it is a very live and energetic sound.


----------



## Tuneslover

By the way folks, don't bother contacting Schiit about tube compatibility with the Vali2. Shortly after I bought my V2 I asked about a certain tube and Nick told me to research tubes in places like Head-Fi.org. Last week I asked about a couple of other tubes and haven't heard back from them. I re-sent the email earlier this week...notta, nothing. Nice, eh? Not a great way to treat a good customer (Magni, Modi, Magni 2U, SYS, Bifrost Uber, 4490 card and Bifrost MB).

Conversely Jeremy from Garage 1217 promptly answered all, of my tube questions and I haven't bought a thing from him...YET.


----------



## Skarecrow77

koven said:


> what headphones do you guys think pairs well w/ vali2 besides hd6x0 and beyers? looking for a complement to hd600 but beyer sound too lean for me, same w/ grado i think, anything on the warmer side you guys can recommend? tried the he400s too but didnt like that either


 
  
 If you're looking for a nice fat rich sound that pairs well with the Vali2, Let me recommend the PSB M4U1 or NAD HP50 (almost the same headphone, sister companies, both cans designed by speaker wizard Paul Barton). 
  
 My NAD HP50s with a Philips PCC88 sourced off of a modi 2 is a magical combination.. The synergy is crazy good. Great compliment to my Senn HD650s which I tend to use with my '57 miniwatt PCC88.


----------



## HOWIE13

tuneslover said:


> By the way folks, don't bother contacting Schiit about tube compatibility with the Vali2. Shortly after I bought my V2 I asked about a certain tube and Nick told me to research tubes in places like Head-Fi.org. Last week I asked about a couple of other tubes and haven't heard back from them. I re-sent the email earlier this week...notta, nothing. Nice, eh? Not a great way to treat a good customer (Magni, Modi, Magni 2U, SYS, Bifrost Uber, 4490 card and Bifrost MB).
> 
> Conversely Jeremy from Garage 1217 promptly answered all, of my tube questions and I haven't bought a thing from him...YET.


 
  
 G1217's customer service is legendary.
  
 I even emailed Jeremy one Christmas Day early in the morning, not expecting a reply for at least 2 days, and had a response within an hour.


----------



## Eric510

howie13 said:


> G1217's customer service is legendary.
> 
> I even emailed Jeremy one Christmas Day early in the morning, not expecting a reply for at least 2 days, and had a response within an hour.


 

  
 Honestly, I've done the same with Nick and have gotten responses right away.
@Tuneslover I saw you post this message in an other forum. My guess is that Nick probably doesn't know how to answer your questions. That is ZERO excuse for not responding but, my guess is that's why he hasn't (again, I'm not giving him a free pass here). Tubes are so subjective... Best thing to do IS research them here on these forums. I'd be leerily of any amp manufacture that gave a thumbs up or thumbs down on a tube, quite frankly. It's hard enough for me to parse what people in these forums say about tubes without amp manufactures getting in the mix. The hardware they make is their world. The tubes we rolls is ours... that's on us (imo) to figure out.


----------



## HOWIE13

eric510 said:


> Honestly, I've done the same with Nick and have gotten responses right away.
> @Tuneslover I saw you post this message in an other forum. My guess is that Nick probably doesn't know how to answer your questions. That is ZERO excuse for not responding but, my guess is that's why he hasn't (again, I'm not giving him a free pass here). Tubes are so subjective... Best thing to do IS research them here on these forums. I'd be leerily of any amp manufacture that gave a thumbs up or thumbs down on a tube, quite frankly. It's hard enough for me to parse what people in these forums say about tubes without amp manufactures getting in the mix. The hardware they make is their world. The tubes we rolls is ours... that's on us (imo) to figure out.


 
 Wise words, Eric.


----------



## rnros

tuneslover said:


> By the way folks, don't bother contacting Schiit about tube compatibility with the Vali2. Shortly after I bought my V2 I asked about a certain tube and Nick told me to research tubes in places like Head-Fi.org. Last week I asked about a couple of other tubes and haven't heard back from them. I re-sent the email earlier this week...notta, nothing. Nice, eh? Not a great way to treat a good customer (Magni, Modi, Magni 2U, SYS, Bifrost Uber, 4490 card and Bifrost MB).
> 
> Conversely Jeremy from Garage 1217 promptly answered all, of my tube questions and I haven't bought a thing from him...YET.


 
 Maybe a bad week for Nick? Always had quick and helpful responses from Nick.
  
 Website does give tube compatibility guidance: "...a lot of other options out there, including 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 2492, and even more. Pretty much *any tube with a 6DJ8 pinout, 6V heater, and 600mA or less of heater current* will work fine in Vali 2."
  
 Tube compatibility is a fairly large topic and is probably better researched on a forum like Head-Fi. See this *LYR & LYR2 COMPATIBILITY CHART*:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list#post_11328343    
  
 Lyr1, like the Vali2 and the Valhalla2, has the capability of handling heater current up to ~600mA. There are also other tube options available via pinout adapters.
 Hope that helps. If you have specific questions that are not addressed elsewhere, perhaps someone here on Head-Fi can help.


----------



## koven

skarecrow77 said:


> If you're looking for a nice fat rich sound that pairs well with the Vali2, Let me recommend the PSB M4U1 or NAD HP50 (almost the same headphone, sister companies, both cans designed by speaker wizard Paul Barton).
> 
> My NAD HP50s with a Philips PCC88 sourced off of a modi 2 is a magical combination.. The synergy is crazy good. Great compliment to my Senn HD650s which I tend to use with my '57 miniwatt PCC88.


 
  
  


howie13 said:


> HD 598, X1 or X2, will give you a warmer sound and they sound good for me with Vali2.


 
  
  


dbaker1981 said:


> I use the Grado SR325e. It gives a very live sound.


 
  
 thank you guys for the recommendations! i will do some research on the sr325e, X2, and HP50s, will pick up one of these and report back!


----------



## Tuneslover

rnros said:


> Maybe a bad week for Nick? Always had quick and helpful responses from Nick.
> 
> Website does give tube compatibility guidance: "...a lot of other options out there, including 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 2492, and even more. Pretty much *any tube with a 6DJ8 pinout, 6V heater, and 600mA or less of heater current* will work fine in Vali 2."
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for your reponse @rnros, @HOWIE13 and @Eric510.  I am happy to inform you that Nick did respond to my email question today.  His response is pretty much exactly what you wrote above.  Nick indicated that this is outlined in the FAQ section in the Vali 2 page.  Before I emailed Nick I did look at the Vali 2 page and read the "roll your own" section that briefly described the compatible tubes.  I failed to check the FAQ which was my fault.
  
 Being that I know very little (virtually nothing) about tubes I simply asked about tubes not listed in the Schiit Vali 2 information section.  They were 6N6P and 6SN7 (that Project Ember enthusiasts seem to like).  While I love the V2, I thought if perhaps these tubes were compatible with the Vali 2, it would elevate the sound even more.  Anyway, I have my answer and more importantly I also learned more about tubes.
  
 Thanks everyone who contributed, and thanks also to you Nick from Schiit.


----------



## HOWIE13

@Tuneslover
  
 That's a very comprehensive list and link to general information.
  
 I get confused by all the E and Russian N/P numbers and also I haven't found a way of getting rid of the 'Featues column' on the right of my screen which is hiding some of the tube information, but is there any mention of Octals in the list and what did Nick say about 6N6P? Did he confirm 6N6P can't be used?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Tuneslover

howie13 said:


> @Tuneslover
> 
> 
> That's a very comprehensive list and link to general information.
> ...




He didn't say anything about the 6N6P, which was the question that I asked him about in my first email. He only answered the follow up email as follows:

"The 6H30 requires 750mA so that's out. Octal based tubes (like the 6SH7) will require an adaptot, as will tubes that do not have the same pin out as a 6DJ8."

I find the whole tube categorization thing pretty confusing as the Vali2 is the first tube gear I have purchased. Surely amp manufacturers could include a section on their websites that allows you to input a tube and it gives you a yes or no answer with respect to compatibility. Sounds simple enough but maybe it's not. I just don't want to buy a tube that may not work with the V2 so a simple query shouldn't be too much to ask for. Being cautious I have only purchased 2 tubes (EH6922 & JJE88CC) in order to get some other tube flavours.


----------



## HOWIE13

tuneslover said:


> He didn't say anything about the 6N6P, which was the question that I asked him about in my first email. He only answered the follow up email as follows:
> 
> "The 6H30 requires 750mA so that's out. Octal based tubes (like the 6SH7) will require an adaptot, as will tubes that do not have the same pin out as a 6DJ8."
> 
> I find the whole tube categorization thing pretty confusing as the Vali2 is the first tube gear I have purchased. Surely amp manufacturers could include a section on their websites that allows you to input a tube and it gives you a yes or no answer with respect to compatibility. Sounds simple enough but maybe it's not. I just don't want to buy a tube that may not work with the V2 so a simple query shouldn't be too much to ask for. Being cautious I have only purchased 2 tubes (EH6922 & JJE88CC) in order to get some other tube flavours.


 
 Yes I think manufacturers are often reluctant to advise on tubes they may not be as familiar with as we are.
 6SN7 tubes certainly work well for me in my Vali2, as do dual single triode octal set-ups like dual 6J5's and 7193/2C22 Frankenstein set-ups, with appropriate adapters of course.
 There's stuff about these on the threads.
 Anyway, you have already made a good start with the two tubes you've already purchased.
 Enjoy!


----------



## TheRealMVT

Anyone here tried the new Modi 2 Multibit with the Vali2? Is it worth the upgrade from a Modi2u?


----------



## Tuneslover

therealmvt said:


> Anyone here tried the new Modi 2 Multibit with the Vali2? Is it worth the upgrade from a Modi2u?




I don't know about the Modi MB but my Bifrost MB and Vali 2 are incredibly good together. I originally had the Bimby connected to my 2 channel speaker system and a short while back decided to try it with the Vali 2. I'm planning on keeping it right where it is. Along with HD650's this setup is incredible sounding. Excellent instrument separation along with a wide holographic soundscape makes music sound detailed and very live-like. Of course tube rolling takes these components to a whole other level.

I too am interested in hearing people's impressions on how the Modi MB sounds with Vali 2. Additionally, I am curious to hear impressions on how close the Modi MB comes to the Bifrost MB. I also have the Bifrost Über, which I upgraded to 4490. I compared the 4490 with the Multibit on my 2 channel speaker setup and found that both of these 2 DAC's sounded very similar, deciding to put the MB with the speaker system and the 4490 with my headphone system. While the 4490 sounded excellent with my headphone setup, once I swapped the DAC's I truly appreciated how much superior the MB sounded. Originally I didn't perceive as noticeable of an audible difference when comparing these DAC's on the 2 channel speaker system, but on a headphone system the difference is quite dramatic.


----------



## Letmebefrank

therealmvt said:


> Anyone here tried the new Modi 2 Multibit with the Vali2? Is it worth the upgrade from a Modi2u?




*Here are my impressions* of the modi MB with the Vali 2 vs the modi 2 Uber.


----------



## TheRealMVT

letmebefrank said:


> *Here are my impressions* of the modi MB with the Vali 2 vs the modi 2 Uber.


 

 Thank you, I will check it out.


----------



## Letmebefrank

therealmvt said:


> Thank you, I will check it out.




You're welcome I hope it helps you.


----------



## Tuneslover

therealmvt said:


> Thank you, I will check it out.


 
 Thanks for that, sounds like you're impressed with MB.  I'm curious to hear how the Modi MB compares with the Bifrost MB though.


----------



## TheRealMVT

letmebefrank said:


> You're welcome I hope it helps you.


 

 It wasn't clear from your impressions post, but did you try to take into account the 2V vs 1.5V RMS difference between the M2U and MMB? As far as I know this can result in a slight difference in volume between the two, with the MB having a higher volume and thus better perceived sound, relatively. When I'm comparing my Audioquest Dragonfly with my M2u I had some difficulty reaching the same volume because of this difference.


----------



## TheRealMVT

tuneslover said:


> Thanks for that, sounds like you're impressed with MB.  I'm curious to hear how the Modi MB compares with the Bifrost MB though.


 

 Thing is, I am interested into upgrading my living room setup DAC for a while now.
  
 That setup is like this now:
 Apple Airport Express > Marantz PM5005 > Teufel Audio Ultima Mk20.
 My desktop setup: Win 10 64bit Home > Foobar > optical > Modi2u > Vali2 with Philips PCC88 tube > HD600/GS1000 replica with Symphones V6 drivers/Fidelio X2
  
 With acquiring the Modi Multibit it could be like this:
 Living room: Apple Airport Express > Optical > Modi2u > Marantz PM5005 > Teufel Audio Ultima Mk20.
 My desktop setup: Win 10 64bit Home > Foobar > Modi Multibit> Vali2 with Philips PCC88 tube > HD600/GS1000 replica with Symphones V6 drivers/Fidelio X2
  
 Included a pic, since who doesn't like pics.


----------



## Letmebefrank

therealmvt said:


> It wasn't clear from your impressions post, but did you try to take into account the 2V vs 1.5V RMS difference between the M2U and MMB? As far as I know this can result in a slight difference in volume between the two, with the MB having a higher volume and thus better perceived sound, relatively. When I'm comparing my Audioquest Dragonfly with my M2u I had some difficulty reaching the same volume because of this difference.




Yeah I used the volume adjustment on foobar to figure out what volume for speakers both dacs were the same loudness,then switched over to headphones for the Sq comparisons. This way the vali 2 output was the same level for both dacs.


----------



## TheRealMVT

letmebefrank said:


> Yeah I used the volume adjustment on foobar to figure out what volume for speakers both dacs were the same loudness,then switched over to headphones for the Sq comparisons. This way the vali 2 output was the same level for both dacs.


 

 Thank you for clarifying.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Finally got around to popping my Heir Audio 4.a CIEM into my Vali 2. They sound great together. Funny I haven't tried this sooner. O'well. Tuesday I'll be trying out the TH-X00 Purple Heart with it and see how they sound together.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

I have a thought. With the Vali 2 and the "popping" noise. Since no audio is present until the "pop" occurs. What if someone would come up with an adapter that is 6.5mm and has an LED on it. There would be a 32ohm resistor to present a"load" to the amp. With the "no pop" plug, plugged in. It would wait until the amp is ready and then the LED will illuminate. Then, we could swap the plug for our headphones and not worry about the "pop" possibly damaging our headphones, yet a proper load was still presented to the amp? Thoughts?


----------



## Skarecrow77

The pop doesn't really worry me.
  
 it's annoying if you forget about it and have the headphones on your head when it happens, for sure... but I've (by accident) played music through my headphones way WAY louder than the pop and they were fine.
  
 I was actually kinda impressed that they could handle that much volume without distortion. Well, I was impressed after I was done being in physical pain.


----------



## Letmebefrank

The pop was way louder with certain tubes and it was louder on my HD598 on low gain than my HD650s on high gain.


----------



## bigro

I leave My headphones Unplugged and when I turn the Vali 2 on I give it a few minutes to warm up before I plug them back in. Sounds like a lot but the led gadget thing seems ike a lot more for me.


----------



## painted klown

I always unplug my 'phones for powering up or down.
  
 Having said that, when I first got my Vali 2, the pop was loud enough that it scared me into thinking it may damage one of my 'phones...so plugging & unplugging is the simple solution for peace of mind.


----------



## Wil

I've got an intermittent Low hum on my vali 2. The hum comes and goes. At first I thought I had a bad tube, so I tried a NOS telefunken 88 that I had lying around, hum still persisted. Then I tired different outlets that I had lying around and even a line filter, the hum was still there, albeit intermittently. At times it would be dead quiet and at times it would hum. I tired unplugging all cables leaving only the wall wart and the issue persists. Which leads me to think, could I have gotten a funky power supply? 

Unit is only a week old. The sound is fantastic when it is dead quiet though. ( I've tried with high and Low impedance headphones and the hum is at the same volume regardless of impedance ).


----------



## HOWIE13

painted klown said:


> I always unplug my 'phones for powering up or down.
> 
> Having said that, when I first got my Vali 2, the pop was loud enough that it scared me into thinking it may damage one of my 'phones...so plugging & unplugging is the simple solution for peace of mind.


 
 That's absolutely true and how I started out, but now I've got lazy and if it's in it's in and if it's out it's out.


----------



## HOWIE13

wil said:


> I've got an intermittent Low hum on my vali 2. The hum comes and goes. At first I thought I had a bad tube, so I tried a NOS telefunken 88 that I had lying around, hum still persisted. Then I tired different outlets that I had lying around and even a line filter, the hum was still there, albeit intermittently. At times it would be dead quiet and at times it would hum. I tired unplugging all cables leaving only the wall wart and the issue persists. Which leads me to think, could I have gotten a funky power supply?
> 
> Unit is only a week old. The sound is fantastic when it is dead quiet though. ( I've tried with high and Low impedance headphones and the hum is at the same volume regardless of impedance ).


 
   
 I wonder if the hum is related to any other equipment intermittently switching on and off eg.fridge.
  
 Might be worth disconnecting some appliances to see- but don't leave the fridge off for too long!


----------



## Wil

howie13 said:


> I wonder if the hum is related to any other equipment intermittently switching on and off eg.fridge.
> 
> Might be worth disconnecting some appliances to see- but don't leave the fridge off for too long!


 
  
 It's gonna be really hard to trace as i have ALOT of electrical appliances running around the house... ( i did try by switching off all the stuff in my room only though, still got the hum) 
  
 I do, however, have the Modi Multibit and 2A3 tube amp running off the same sockets that i have the Vali 2 plugged in to and both are dead quiet though. 
  
 I'm trying to ask Schiit if i can have another wall wart to see if it helps the issue.


----------



## HOWIE13

wil said:


> It's gonna be really hard to trace as i have ALOT of electrical appliances running around the house... ( i did try by switching off all the stuff in my room only though, still got the hum)
> 
> I do, however, have the Modi Multibit and 2A3 tube amp running off the same sockets that i have the Vali 2 plugged in to and both are dead quiet though.
> 
> I'm trying to ask Schiit if i can have another wall wart to see if it helps the issue.


 
  
 I can sympathise with your dilemma-I hate hum
  
 The fact you have lots of electrical stuff around the house does increase the risk of mains loop hums, which could be engendered anywhere in the house and picked up by your kit.
 Unfortunately some amp/tube combos are more prone to hum than others, for inexplicable reasons sometimes.
  
 I hope you can sort it out.


----------



## Wil

howie13 said:


> I can sympathise with your dilemma-I hate hum
> 
> The fact you have lots of electrical stuff around the house does increase the risk of mains loop hums, which could be engendered anywhere in the house and picked up by your kit.
> Unfortunately some amp/tube combos are more prone to hum than others, for inexplicable reasons sometimes.
> ...




Thank you! Oh well, it's quite a pity as the unit sounds SUPERB when it is hum free. ( esp with my TH900).


----------



## HOWIE13

wil said:


> Thank you! Oh well, it's quite a pity as the unit sounds SUPERB when it is hum free. ( esp with my TH900).


 
 I should have said I get a quiet background hum on high gain only, with certain combinations of headphones and tubes.
  
 Vali2 sounds so good though that I just avoid those combinations or use low gain, which is humless, when possible.


----------



## claud W

Anyone here using power conditioning on their Vali2/ Modi/Magi stack? Just picked up a nice Furman on Amazon and it seems to help even my computer monitor


----------



## bigro

claud w said:


> Anyone here using power conditioning on their Vali2/ Modi/Magi stack? Just picked up a nice Furman on Amazon and it seems to help even my computer monitor


 

 I do. Background Noise is non existent now.


----------



## Tuneslover

claud w said:


> Anyone here using power conditioning on their Vali2/ Modi/Magi stack? Just picked up a nice Furman on Amazon and it seems to help even my computer monitor



Absolutely I used power conditioners on all of my audio systems to protect them.


----------



## nordkapp

80's synth-pop + Vali2 + DT177O = *happiness.....*


----------



## Letmebefrank

claud w said:


> Anyone here using power conditioning on their Vali2/ Modi/Magi stack? Just picked up a nice Furman on Amazon and it seems to help even my computer monitor


 
  
 I picked up the same conditioner from amazon because I was getting some modulating hum in my Jotunheim past 12'o clock in high gain. (Computer sound was muted, I'm not crazy!)
  
 The Furman PST-8D makes everything SILENT. No noise even with Jotunheim cranked to max volume on high gain.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

What is the model number on that Furman? I've seen the "rack mount" one, but not the one shown.


----------



## AviP

waytoocrazy said:


> What is the model number on that Furman? I've seen the "rack mount" one, but not the one shown.


 
@Letmebefrank wrote:


> Furman  PST-8D


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Is this one not as good?
 https://www.amazon.com/Furman-M-8X2-Outlet-Conditioner-Protector/dp/B003BQ91Y6/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1473702589&sr=1-1&keywords=furman+power+conditioner
  
 Definitely a more palatable price point.


----------



## RickB

waytoocrazy said:


> Is this one not as good?
> https://www.amazon.com/Furman-M-8X2-Outlet-Conditioner-Protector/dp/B003BQ91Y6/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1473702589&sr=1-1&keywords=furman+power+conditioner
> 
> Definitely a more palatable price point.


 
 I have that one and I can say when I owned the Valhalla 2 it solved the noise issue I had with it. I find that the Schiit amps I've owned with wall warts are less susceptible to RFI/hum.


----------



## Letmebefrank

rickb said:


> I have that one and I can say when I owned the Valhalla 2 it solved the noise issue I had with it. I find that the Schiit amps I've owned with wall warts are less susceptible to RFI/hum.




Exactly, my Vali 2 never had any noise issues, but the Jotunheim did before I got the furman.


----------



## vcmusik

Just out of curiosity, anyone else here in the Vali 2 thread use it with an MDR-Z7? I recently snagged a pair of Z7's off of Ebay for a steal, but when I listened through the Vali 2, it felt extremely dark and muddy. I tried my phone and tablet, with similar results. I knew coming into the purchase that it was a pretty dark-sounding headphone, but I'm guessing pairing it with a tube amp just makes it even more so. Any counter-impressions would be interesting to hear. I think eventually, I might try that surgical tape mod and see if it helps a little.


----------



## ciman

Im finding Schiit amp for my DT880 - 600ohm. Just considering between Vali 2 and Asgard 1/2. What will better for DT880. Vali 2 is cheaper but I am concerning its power to drive such 600ohm hp. please advise. thanks


----------



## dbaker1981

ciman said:


> Im finding Schiit amp for my DT880 - 600ohm. Just considering between Vali 2 and Asgard 1/2. What will better for DT880. Vali 2 is cheaper but I am concerning its power to drive such 600ohm hp. please advise. thanks




I have the Asgard 2 and the Vali 2. The Vali is more dark sounding and while the tube doesn't effect the sound quite like a otl amp changing tubes will change its sound. Also I have the HD700 and the HD600 and DT-880 250 and it runs them really well with the pot not even at half. It would depend on how loud you want it but I think it would have plenty for the DT-880 600's.


----------



## ciman

dbaker1981 said:


> I have the Asgard 2 and the Vali 2. The Vali is more dark sounding and while the tube doesn't effect the sound quite like a otl amp changing tubes will change its sound. Also I have the HD700 and the HD600 and DT-880 250 and it runs them really well with the pot not even at half. It would depend on how loud you want it but I think it would have plenty for the DT-880 600's.


 
 Many thanks for your sharing. In your view, which one (Asgard 2 or Vali 2) you prefer to pair with DT880. Thanks again!


----------



## dbaker1981

ciman said:


> Many thanks for your sharing. In your view, which one (Asgard 2 or Vali 2) you prefer to pair with DT880. Thanks again!




IMO the Vali tames down some of the more piercing highs of the 880's. but the clarity of them on the Asgard is great. So really buyers choice.


----------



## IPA-60-IBU

Hello. Here are my thoughts regarding Vali2, after a couple of months. I listen to it through dt 990 600 Ohm. I love it, easily the best sound I've ever experienced. Regarding a previous post here, it has enough power to make you go deaf (maybe that makes sense, a a long-term way of saving money on equipment) .
 The DAC I use is fiio d3, through optical.
 The sound of Vali2 actually depends on the tube. I will try to provide a concise report of my experiences with European tubes.
  

e88cc Tesla, both gold-pin and military version: improvement over the stock 6bq7a. Good, dirt cheap, but excel at nothing and the highs seemed off.
6n23p - I own a pair of Reflector tubes from the 60s. They sound great, natural, and deep. The reason I use roll other tubes is, I guess, I enjoy their  coloration.
6n2p - these Russians have higher gain. They don't heat up the amp as much. Triple mica Voschods from the 70s offer incredible soundstage, which might be due to the fact that the highs are exaggerated. Again, the ones from Reflector facility completely dominate (early 60s), although one of them died 5 min in, and both were microphonic). If you're looking for 'tube sound' look no further. 6n2p-e sounded the same to me
6n1p Voschod - vast improvement over the abovementioned tubes
6n1p-EW Voschod (late production) just better than the non-ew. It seems to me that the non-ew play a bit louder. EW has a bit less background noise.
6n1p NEWZ, triple mica, black thin anodes, 1965 - Tighter soundstage, but better instrument separation, does it even make sense? I dunno, I guess it's all just for fun. Awesome tube, similar to 6n1p-ew from Voschod, but the highs are more pleasant.
6n1p-W NEWZ two micas, black anodes, more or less same morphology as voschod-ew. (1968). Simply put, just better, I love them and will hoard them
  
  
 Overall, the russians made some preeeeety good tubes. As a sidenote, Vali2 likes it hot - and so do tubes, it usually takes 20 min from power up for them to show their full capabilities. A word of caution, most of the russian tubes take ages in Vali to 'burn in' - I needed around 50-100 hours in Foobar, which I guess corresponds to 200 hours of use... I a sceptical of audiophile myths, but here the change is obvious.
 One more, I recommend buying used tubes for this amp (but not half-dead, ofc. have a seller whom you trust plug them in a tester and check the emission.
 Now, what should I do with a heap of Russian tubes?? 
 cheers


----------



## dbaker1981

How long should you burn in a new tube?


----------



## ClintonL

Wondering if anyone has listened to this on the hd800's? I'm looking to get either a vali 2 or valhalla 2 for my 800's. Not sure if the extra money is worth it?
  
 Cheers


----------



## rnros

clintonl said:


> Wondering if anyone has listened to this on the hd800's? I'm looking to get either a vali 2 or valhalla 2 for my 800's. Not sure if the extra money is worth it?
> 
> Cheers


 

 Well, I don't have the HD800S yet, will have it soon, but I can tell you that if you can do the Valhalla2, or the Lyr2, that is the way I would go. So cannot answer specifically as to whether or not the 800S will perform to some satisfactory level, but I would expect that, at the least, it will not perform to it's full capability.
  
 Impressive as the Vali2 is, it does get better as you go up the line. The up-line amps do throw a larger, more realistic soundstage/aural image. It's not just about the volume capability, it's about the ability to carve the space, articulate the subtle details in that space, slam the dynamics when called for, and still maintain the micro-dynamics. (Add to that the reputation that the 800S has for temperamental amp matching.)
   
Yes, the money is worth it. And you can find fantastic tubes for the Valhalla w/o spending 'trophy tube' money.


----------



## EmiG310

vcmusik said:


> Just out of curiosity, anyone else here in the Vali 2 thread use it with an MDR-Z7? I recently snagged a pair of Z7's off of Ebay for a steal, but when I listened through the Vali 2, it felt extremely dark and muddy. I tried my phone and tablet, with similar results. I knew coming into the purchase that it was a pretty dark-sounding headphone, but I'm guessing pairing it with a tube amp just makes it even more so. Any counter-impressions would be interesting to hear. I think eventually, I might try that surgical tape mod and see if it helps a little.


 
 MDR-Z7 are unfortunately very boomy and "dark" headphones. They need significant EQ to sound flat. I replaced my MDR-Z7's with Oppo PM-3's and I haven't looked back. The PM-3 has tons of bass but doesn't drown out the clarity - Planar Magic per se.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## ClintonL

Just using the hd800 not the hd800s. How much of a downgrade is this from the bottlehead crack. Sold that because i'd get noise when silent and I have massive OCD. I heard the vali 2 doesn't suffer from this.


----------



## ClintonL

Anyone have any ideas?


----------



## HOWIE13

clintonl said:


> Anyone have any ideas?


 
 Schiit used to let you try their products and send them back after a period of time if they didn't suit. Why don't you investigate this possibility? Better to let your own ears be the judge.


----------



## ClintonL

I'm in australia so shipping on them is about $50


----------



## HOWIE13

clintonl said:


> I'm in australia so shipping on them is about $50


 
 That's a pity. I'm surprised Schiit don't have a distributor in Australia.


----------



## rnros

clintonl said:


> Anyone have any ideas?




DC heaters in the Lyr2 and Mjolnir2 lower the noise. Better choices for noise.
Vahalla2 and Vali2 have AC heaters and will have noise as you increase the volume. With high impedance (300 Ohm) phones at normal volume levels, you should hear very little, if any, noise.
Other sources of noise are tubes and power supply. Make sure you have quiet tubes and clean power.


----------



## HOWIE13

rnros said:


> DC heaters in the Lyr2 and Mjolnir2 lower the noise. Better choices for noise.
> Vahalla2 and Vali2 have AC heaters and will have noise as you increase the volume. With high impedance (300 Ohm) phones at normal volume levels, you should hear very little, if any, noise.
> Other sources of noise are tubes and power supply. Make sure you have quiet tubes and clean power.


 
  
 In Vali2 I hear quiet background hum, irrespective of volume setting, with many headphones, with many tubes, on high gain. Low gain is always silent.
 The tubes don't hum in other amps and I can't do much about the power supply so I try to use low power as much as possible.


----------



## rnros

howie13 said:


> In Vali2 I hear quiet background hum, irrespective of volume setting, with many headphones, with many tubes, on high gain. Low gain is always silent.
> The tubes don't hum in other amps and I can't do much about the power supply so I try to use low power as much as possible.




I'll get back to you with more detail after I try some different combinations tomorrow. I have also noticed that some tubes have showed more noise in the Vali2 than other amps, including Lyr1, which also has AC heaters. On the other hand, I have noticed that some tubes lost some borderline noise after use in the Vali2. My sense is that these are borderline tubes to begin with. As for power, you can at least test going direct to the wall sockets in several different locations. There are other options also.


----------



## HOWIE13

rnros said:


> I'll get back to you with more detail after I try some different combinations tomorrow. I have also noticed that some tubes have showed more noise in the Vali2 than other amps, including Lyr1, which also has AC heaters. On the other hand, I have noticed that some tubes lost some borderline noise after use in the Vali2. My sense is that these are borderline tubes to begin with. As for power, you can at least test going direct to the wall sockets in several different locations. There are other options also.


 
 Thanks. I tried a few different locations but no joy. Sadly not possible to change the wall transformer as I think it's specially made for Vali2.


----------



## rnros

howie13 said:


> Thanks. I tried a few different locations but no joy. Sadly not possible to change the wall transformer as I think it's specially made for Vali2.


 

 Well, process of elimination... If it sounds the same straight into the wall in several locations, then it's not the power.
 I don't bother with any power conditioners for the Vali2, only an isolation strip. I'll get back to you...


----------



## HOWIE13

rnros said:


> Well, process of elimination... If it sounds the same straight into the wall in several locations, then it's not the power.
> I don't bother with any power conditioners for the Vali2, only an isolation strip. I'll get back to you...


 
 Thanks-I'll be interested in your findings.


----------



## Magic77

I recently purchased a VALI 2. I think it's great! I also own a Lyr-1. I made some comparisons between the two, and am liking the Vali 2 more right now. Does anyone else own a Lyr and a Vali 2?


----------



## claud W

I owned an original Lyr and rolled a bunch of NOS tubes in it, but I think my Vali 2 with 1974-75 Russian Reflectors or Voshkod sounds better. I do not have any hum or other extraneous noise with my Vali 2. I do have it plugged in to a Furman power conditioner, but it was inexpensive at $107 from Amazon. I think there is a pic of it earlier in this thread. I did have a motor boating sound at one point before I got the Furman, but moving the power cords around got rid of it.


----------



## Magic77

claud w said:


> I owned an original Lyr and rolled a bunch of NOS tubes in it, but I think my Vali 2 with 1974-75 Russian Reflectors or Voshkod sounds better. I do not have any hum or other extraneous noise with my Vali 2. I do have it plugged in to a Furman power conditioner, but it was inexpensive at $107 from Amazon. I think there is a pic of it earlier in this thread. I did have a motor boating sound at one point before I got the Furman, but moving the power cords around got rid of it.




Yeah, the Vali 2 is really great. I was also going to get the Reflector 6922 from the tube store. They have them for $59.99 each. Not sure if that's a very good price. My original Lyr is sounding old I guess. Where did you get your Reflector tubes?


----------



## claud W

Got tubes on Ebay . They were shipped from the Ukraine. I would rather pay more from a reputable source like the Tube Store.


----------



## IPA-60-IBU

I hope I'm not breaking any forum rules here, but I could sell you some of my russian tubes. 50$ for a tube is literally 25 times more than what I've paid for them...


----------



## WayTooCrazy

I paid $60 for my India BEL E88C I think it was.

 I do like the more "tubey" sound vs stock, but the stock one makes the TH-X00 sound less syrupy.


----------



## rnros

howie13 said:


> Thanks-I'll be interested in your findings.


 

 @HOWIE13 
 OK, did some combination testing to the point that I absolutely convinced myself (at least), about the Vali2 and background noise or hum. Of course, this is related to the headphone impedance.
  
 Short answer is that the Vali2 is very quiet, to the point of no perceptible background noise or hum, IF the tubes are quiet. This confirmed my previous opinion but I wanted to revisit the issue to be certain, sometimes we can learn to ignore a little bit of background noise if the overall sound performance is good.
  
 Headphones used for test (impedance noted):
 Senn HD600 (300 Ohm), AKG K7XX (62 Ohm), Oppo PM3 (26 Ohm), GR07 (IEM) (50 Ohm).
  
 All four HPs were used with the same set of (quiet) tubes on the Vali2 and the Lyr1. After that series, the HD600 and the AKG K7XX were used for another sequence on only the Vali2, with an additional 8 tubes of various brand and type, all of which were quiet with the exception of one tube with a borderline noise/hum.
  
 Level for each HP was set at a typical dynamic range of 50-80 decibels with peaks at 85-90. Vali2 was always set to high gain. Background noise was checked by cutting the signal at this volume level. To help determine if the background was absolutely quiet, after background level was noted, volume level was turned down to zero, and/or hi gain was switched to low gain, to see if there was any perceptible background change. (Of course, if you open the volume all the way, some low level hiss or hum will be heard, but this testing was to determine background at typical listening levels.)
  
 Results: HD600 completely quiet, also the AKG K7XX surprisingly, given the low impedance of 62 Ohm. The Oppo PM3 with the very low impedance of 26 Ohm, showed just a very small level of background, in the category of 'very, very slight', or 'almost imperceptible', not a level that I would actually notice if I wasn't looking for it, or anything that takes away from it's performance. The GR07 IEM had a background level that was noticeable but still suitable for quality listening. 
  
 With regard to background noise, performance was fairly consistent between the Vali2 and the Lyr1. Again the Vali2 was tested at high gain, the Lyr1 has only high gain mode. With the Vali2 on low gain, everything is quiet.
  
 If interested, I can list the tubes used but since all the quiet tubes gave the same result, I thought it was of secondary importance. So, (HOWIE13) there is a disconnect between my experience with the Vali2 and your experience. Not sure what the answer is. This test was using the Gumby to feed the Vali2, both were powered from an isolation strip into a wall socket used only for audio.
  
 Last points: I do like the Vali2 for it's performance and convenience. I use it often to evaluate new tubes, since you can evaluate the triodes separately (one for each channel). So, I have a good bit of experience with it. However, IMHO, it is not up to the level of the Lyr1, or the other Schiit tube amps, but a very impressive little tube amp for $169.


----------



## HOWIE13

rnros said:


> @HOWIE13
> OK, did some combination testing to the point that I absolutely convinced myself (at least), about the Vali2 and background noise or hum. Of course, this is related to the headphone impedance.
> 
> Short answer is that the Vali2 is very quiet, to the point of no perceptible background noise or hum, IF the tubes are quiet. This confirmed my previous opinion but I wanted to revisit the issue to be certain, sometimes we can learn to ignore a little bit of background noise if the overall sound performance is good.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for doing such a comprehensive test. I would say about 10 of 15 of my tubes hum using the HD600 and 650 with high gain and can only assume either my amp is faulty or there is a mains problem. I don't however get such a consistent hum with any other amp so maybe it's the amp.
 On the other hand I don't hear hum with my AKG702 and I do agree the amp sounds good when I don't hear the hum. Fortunately, I can usually manage to get adequate volume with low gain when there is no hum.


----------



## rnros

Glad it was helpful. Hard one to figure in your particular situation. Especially with the HD600, that HP is so, so quiet for me. Easy answer would be that 10 of the 15 tubes have some noise. Although that seems a very high percentage! However, if the other amps you are using have DC heaters maybe that explains the improved performance with the tubes in question.
  
 Reason I'm questioning the possibility of the tubes being the culprit is that if it were the power or the amp, wouldn't the problem manifest with all the tubes to some degree?
  
 The nine tubes I used represent six tube types, four are commonplace straight plug-ins, and two require an adapter. (Actually, the two types that require an adapter are more consistently quiet than the other four  types. I note that because I would always include any adapter in the list of suspects.) Tube types included 6DJ8, 6922, 7308, 6N23P, 6N3P-E, and WE396A. BTW, I did not include any of the 6N1P/6N5Ps (600mA heater filaments) in this test, but I have tried a number of these in the past and I have never had an issue with any of them in the Vali2.
  
 Good luck, I hope you can find the source of the noise. Perhaps the tech folks at Schiit can offer some information or assistance?


----------



## HOWIE13

rnros said:


> Glad it was helpful. Hard one to figure in your particular situation. Especially with the HD600, that HP is so, so quiet for me. Easy answer would be that 10 of the 15 tubes have some noise. Although that seems a very high percentage! However, if the other amps you are using have DC heaters maybe that explains the improved performance with the tubes in question.
> 
> Reason I'm questioning the possibility of the tubes being the culprit is that if it were the power or the amp, wouldn't the problem manifest with all the tubes to some degree?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks- I use Vali2 now mainly for listening in bed at low volume as it's so convenient to position on my bed table. I'm mostly using low gain anyway so hum not a problem at present.
 Most of my tubes are 6DJ8 types and do sound very good in Vali 2. I thought about sending  the amp back to Schiit but Schiit UK appears to no longer exist and I don't want to send it abroad.
 Cheers-appreciate all your input.


----------



## Bleether

Hey guys i've been out of the headphone game for a while now, but i just purchased the AKG K-712 and looking for an amp to pair specifically for these phones.
  
 Is this amp good enough to drive it or do you recommend something else?
  
 Did a lot of searching before posting, couldn't find a good answer for an amp for these phones.


----------



## claud W

Sounds great with my AKG 702s with Wywires Red headphone cable cable


----------



## Bleether

claud w said:


> Sounds great with my AKG 702s with Wywires Red headphone cable cable


 

 Well looks like i'm gonna go with this amp, unless there are any better suggestions for the k712


----------



## Bleether

Okay so i received my Vali 2/Modi 2 Uber and akg 712 pro today. Hooked everything up expecting to be blown away the with sound quality, but i was initially left pretty disappointed.
  
 Now i know my gear hasn't even been broken in yet, but i feel like the sound is so flat. Bass is non existent, and i just don't feel like i am getting a rich full sound.
  
 Since i have no other equipment to hook my phones up to i dont know if it's the amp... the dac... or the ear phones that are disappointing. I didn't buy the AKG expecting a bass thumping experience, but i don't even get a little thud out of these things.
  
 What do you guys think... phones, tube, amp?


----------



## HOWIE13

bleether said:


> Okay so i received my Vali 2/Modi 2 Uber and akg 712 pro today. Hooked everything up expecting to be blown away the with sound quality, but i was initially left pretty disappointed.
> 
> Now i know my gear hasn't even been broken in yet, but i feel like the sound is so flat. Bass is non existent, and i just don't feel like i am getting a rich full sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I would try tube rolling before doing anything else. Try a warmer compatible 9 pin Noval tube or go Octal.


----------



## Bleether

howie13 said:


> I would try tube rolling before doing anything else. Try a warmer compatible 9 pin Noval tube or go Octal.


 

 So i'm brand new to the whole tube arena, and i'm not familiar with the term Noval tube. Did a quick google search and it seems to refer to a 9 pin socket? Does the Noval tube include the 6DJ8 / 6922 / ECC88 / E88CC / CV2492 tubes?
  
 I've got a budget of ~$150, any advice would be appreciated.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## HOWIE13

bleether said:


> So i'm brand new to the whole tube arena, and i'm not familiar with the term Noval tube. Did a quick google search and it seems to refer to a 9 pin socket? Does the Noval tube include the 6DJ8 / 6922 / ECC88 / E88CC / CV2492 tubes?
> 
> I've got a budget of ~$150, any advice would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 You've got it correct!
  
 I would probably try a 6DJ8 GE 'grey/smoked/dark glass' such as this, but other posters will have different opinions:
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ECC88-6DJ8-GE-GREY-GLASS-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-/262564328203?hash=item3d220db30b:g:2GsAAOSwyLlXpHHu
  
  
 Alternatively you could also consider a 9 pin Noval 6DJ8 socket extender and 6SN7 to 6DJ8/ECC88 adapter, both available on eBAY, and try some warm Octals, like Tung-Sol 6SN7 'mouse ears'- there's loads of threads and web pages on Octal 6SN7 tubes. Here's a very useful one:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread
  
 Only your own ears will eventually decide what's best for you.
 Good luck.


----------



## claud W

bleether said:


> Okay so i received my Vali 2/Modi 2 Uber and akg 712 pro today. Hooked everything up expecting to be blown away the with sound quality, but i was initially left pretty disappointed.
> 
> Now i know my gear hasn't even been broken in yet, but i feel like the sound is so flat. Bass is non existent, and i just don't feel like i am getting a rich full sound.
> 
> ...


 

 I used to think my AKG 702s were crap. Then I saw a post that they need a lot of breakin. After 250 hours of continuous playing Jango internet radio through them, they sound better than my old Senn HD600s. The 712s are supposed to be better. This will also break in your vali/modi electronics.


----------



## Bleether

Awesome, i appreciate the advise. I have a little homework to do. I'll report back here with any updates. 


claud w said:


> I used to think my AKG 702s were crap. Then I saw a post that they need a lot of breaking. After 250 hours of continuous playing Jango internet radio through them, they sound better than my old Senn HD600s. The 712s are supposed to be better. This will also break in your vali/modi electronics.




I have ~12 hours down, 238 more to go. Hope the sound profile changes on them. I was really surprised at how flat sounding they were, and it even had me thinking that maybe they were defective or fake. Ill give it a few more days to see if they get better.


----------



## HOWIE13

bleether said:


> Awesome, i appreciate the advise. I have a little homework to do. I'll report back here with any updates.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh-I didn't realise you only just started to use the 712's.
  
 They take a relatively long time to open up and extend down into the bass. Even longer than the 702 in my experience. There's lots of potential for improvement.


----------



## tdockweiler

bleether said:


> Okay so i received my Vali 2/Modi 2 Uber and akg 712 pro today. Hooked everything up expecting to be blown away the with sound quality, but i was initially left pretty disappointed.
> 
> Now i know my gear hasn't even been broken in yet, but i feel like the sound is so flat. Bass is non existent, and i just don't feel like i am getting a rich full sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Maybe the K712 sound just isn't for you. It's possible.
 I would suggest maybe trying another headphone if you can return or exchange the K712.


----------



## claud W

This is a great way to get started tube rolling the Vali 2. This is my order for this morning. Please note that all tubes have balanced triodes. This is necessary because each channel of the Vali 2 uses one of those triodes. As previously stated, I have most of the holy grail 6922/ 6DJ8/7308 tubes, but so far the Russian Reflectors and Voskhods sound better.

 
  ​
 Options​
 Unit Price​
 Qty​
 Total​
JSC Voskhod 6H23p (Standard)​Additional Options: Matched Triodes (Balanced) $5​USD $‎19.95​1​USD $‎19.95​Reflector 6H23p-EB / 6922 (Premium)​Additional Options: Matched Triodes (Balanced) $5​USD $‎59.95​1​USD $‎59.95​JSC Voskhod 6N1P-EB​Additional Options: Matched Triodes (Balanced) $5​USD $‎9.95​1​USD $‎9.95​Matched Triode Sections​ ​USD $‎5.00​3​USD $‎15.00​Subtotal​USD $‎104.85​Shipping​USD $‎9.95​Taxes​USD $‎0.00​PST​USD $‎0.00​*Total*​*USD $‎114.80*
  ​


----------



## Bleether

tdockweiler said:


> Maybe the K712 sound just isn't for you. It's possible.
> I would suggest maybe trying another headphone if you can return or exchange the K712.




I may have to go that route. The weird thing is I read a guys impression of the k712 here on headfi, and he said that properly driven the k712 has low end that similar to the audio technic ath m-50. I am extremely familiar with the ath-m50 because I have been listening to them exclusively for around 5 years now, and I don't see these even coming close.

I bought the k712 to get away from the m50 sound profile because I got bored of the sound. I love the details in the k712 but the bass I it is as if you went in an equalizer and pulled the slider as far down as it goes. There is zero punch to it. I might have to return it.



claud w said:


> This is a great way to get started tube rolling the Vali 2. This is my order for this morning. Please note that all tubes have balanced triodes. This is necessary because each channel of the Vali 2 uses one of those triodes. As previously stated, I have most of the holy grail 6922/ 6DJ8/7308 tubes, but so far the Russian Reflectors and Voskhods sound better.




That looks like an awesome selection. Where do you buy your tubes from?

Also do you need any sort of socke converter to run the Russian tubes?


----------



## rnros

bleether said:


> So i'm brand new to the whole tube arena, and i'm not familiar with the term Noval tube. Did a quick google search and it seems to refer to a 9 pin socket? Does the Noval tube include the 6DJ8 / 6922 / ECC88 / E88CC / CV2492 tubes?
> 
> I've got a budget of ~$150, any advice would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


 
 Yes on the burn-in necessity. The K7XXs I use have hundreds of hours on them and while they are not basshead phones, they are not lacking in bass IMO. The K712 is AKG's "Reference/Mastering" version that is actually made in Austria, I would expect the K712 to be a solid headphone with accurate bass. Give it time, in addition to the development and refinement of different frequency ranges, the 3D stage should also improve. But true, you may need a set with more bass.
 As far as the DAC/Amp/Tube out of the box, not surprising, they need time also. If you are using the stock tube, good idea to pick up something better. The Reflector 6N23P-EV recommended above by claudW is a great tube, I also highly recommend that tube. I have a few sets of the EVs and I've heard them in the Vali2.
 Finally, how are you feeding the DAC, USB, COAX?


----------



## rnros

bleether said:


> I may have to go that route. The weird thing is I read a guys impression of the k712 here on headfi, and he said that properly driven the k712 has low end that similar to the audio technic ath m-50. I am extremely familiar with the ath-m50 because I have been listening to them exclusively for around 5 years now, and I don't see these even coming close.
> 
> I bought the k712 to get away from the m50 sound profile because I got bored of the sound. I love the details in the k712 but the bass I it is as if you went in an equalizer and pulled the slider as far down as it goes. There is zero punch to it. I might have to return it.
> That looks like an awesome selection. Where do you buy your tubes from?
> ...


 

 Not the listed tubes. The more typical Russians you can use straight are the 6N23P and 6N1P.


----------



## Bleether

rnros said:


> Yes on the burn-in necessity. The K7XXs I use have hundreds of hours on them and while they are not basshead phones, they are not lacking in bass IMO. The K712 is AKG's "Reference/Mastering" version that is actually made in Austria, I would expect the K712 to be a solid headphone with accurate bass. Give it time, in addition to the development and refinement of different frequency ranges, the 3D stage should also improve. But true, you may need a set with more bass.
> As far as the DAC/Amp/Tube out of the box, not surprising, they need time also. If you are using the stock tube, good idea to pick up something better. The Reflector 6N23P-EV recommended above by claudW is a great tube, I also highly recommend that tube. I have a few sets of the EVs and I've heard them in the Vali2.
> Finally, how are you feeding the DAC, USB, COAX?


 
  
 My entire setup including the phones are brand new out of the box, so perhaps i'll give them a really good burn in session. My k712 have a sticker in the inside that says they are made in slovakia EU. I got them from this ebay retailer http://www.ebay.com/itm/131665852400?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT . I am currently feeding my dac with a USB a to b, but i have a tos link cable on the way.


----------



## rnros

bleether said:


> My entire setup including the phones are brand new out of the box, so perhaps i'll give them a really good burn in session. My k712 have a sticker in the inside that says they are made in slovakia EU. I got them from this ebay retailer http://www.ebay.com/itm/131665852400?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT . I am currently feeding my dac with a USB a to b, but i have a tos link cable on the way.


 
 OK, did a quick check and I see that both types are being sold, those with and without the "Made in Austria" inscribed. I don't know anything about the variations but you could scan the Amazon reviews to see if buyers are seeing a difference in sound. I don't think Amazon would carry fakes (can happen though). The price including shipping with the seller you linked is a great price. Has to be your call on returning if not happy given the short return period but obviously yours are not the only Slovakia version.
  
 Toslink does not have the USB issues, but do not overlook the quality of the Toslink cable if it's not up to expectations.


----------



## r2muchstuff

bleether said:


> I may have to go that route. The weird thing is


 
 Pick a flavor of Beyerdynamic,
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## rnros

r2muchstuff said:


> Pick a flavor of Beyerdynamic,
> 
> JMTC,
> r2


 

 And r2 knows his Schiit!


----------



## r2muchstuff

Thank you, and so do you 
  
 r2


----------



## Bleether

rnros said:


> OK, did a quick check and I see that both types are being sold, those with and without the "Made in Austria" inscribed. I don't know anything about the variations but you could scan the Amazon reviews to see if buyers are seeing a difference in sound. I don't think Amazon would carry fakes (can happen though). The price including shipping with the seller you linked is a great price. Has to be your call on returning if not happy given the short return period but obviously yours are not the only Slovakia version.
> 
> Toslink does not have the USB issues, but do not overlook the quality of the Toslink cable if it's not up to expectations.


 
  
 I'll give a week of burning in before considering exchanging them. I think it is too soon to jump too a decision considering everything i have is completely new and not burned in.


r2muchstuff said:


> Pick a flavor of Beyerdynamic,
> 
> JMTC,
> r2


 
  
  Those were next on my list. If i wind up liking the k712, i would probably add some version of these to my colleciton


----------



## rnros

r2muchstuff said:


> Thank you, and so do you
> 
> r2


 

 Yeah, but your list is bigger than mine...
  
 Speaking of, how is the MJ2?? You should be enjoying some awesome sound with the Gumby and that tube collection!


----------



## r2muchstuff

Sennheiser HD 650 > balanced cable > Mjolnir 2 (currently 6N3P-E OTK Reflektor - NOS 1989 - Gold Grid - 1.4 % match) > Gungnir MB > IMac via USB > Apple Lossless via iTunes
  
Great Googly Moogly!
  
YMMV,
r2


----------



## rnros

LOL... But I get it.


----------



## claud W

bleether said:


> I may have to go that route. The weird thing is I read a guys impression of the k712 here on headfi, and he said that properly driven the k712 has low end that similar to the audio technic ath m-50. I am extremely familiar with the ath-m50 because I have been listening to them exclusively for around 5 years now, and I don't see these even coming close.
> 
> I bought the k712 to get away from the m50 sound profile because I got bored of the sound. I love the details in the k712 but the bass I it is as if you went in an equalizer and pulled the slider as far down as it goes. There is zero punch to it. I might have to return it.
> That looks like an awesome selection. Where do you buy your tubes from?
> ...


 

 The Tube Store. Very reputable and fair pricing if they have what you want in stock.


----------



## Bleether

claud w said:


> The Tube Store. Very reputable and fair pricing if they have what you want in stock.


 
  
 I'll check em out for sure, and I'm eye balling that Reflector 6H23p-EB.  So will this thing plug straight into the Vali 2, or does it need something additional to make it work?


----------



## claud W

bleether said:


> I'll check em out for sure, and I'm eye balling that Reflector 6H23p-EB.  So will this thing plug straight into the Vali 2, or does it need something additional to make it work?


 

 Yes and so will 6922, 7308 and 6DJ8 and 6N1P look around on the 6922 page.


----------



## Bleether

claud w said:


> Yes and so will 6922, 7308 and 6DJ8 and 6N1P look around on the 6922 page


 
  
 Perfect, thanks for all the help. I have much research to do, and thats the fun part about a new hobby!


----------



## HOWIE13

bleether said:


> My entire setup including the phones are brand new out of the box, so perhaps i'll give them a really good burn in session. My k712 have a sticker in the inside that says they are made in slovakia EU. I got them from this ebay retailer http://www.ebay.com/itm/131665852400?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT . I am currently feeding my dac with a USB a to b, but i have a tos link cable on the way.


 
  
 K712 has been made in Slovakia for a couple of years. I would think you would probably only find used ones made in Austria. From what I've read it makes no difference where they are made.
 Sennheiser HD600/650 have been built in China for a while now and they remain very popular.
  
 K712 gives a very different sound from the M50.


----------



## RickB

howie13 said:


> Sennheiser HD600/650 have been built in China for a while now and they remain very popular.


 
  
 My recently bought HD650 still says "Made in Ireland" on the underside of the headband.


----------



## HOWIE13

rickb said:


> My recently bought HD650 still says "Made in Ireland" on the underside of the headband.


 
 I bought my HD's about two years ago and there is nothing on the headband, just 'made in China' on the box. Maybe they have changed factory again, or perhaps I have  fakes, or maybe my memory has failed..
 I'm away on holiday at present- will check when I return home.


----------



## RickB

howie13 said:


> I bought my HD's about two years ago and there is nothing on the headband, just 'made in China' on the box. Maybe they have changed factory again, or perhaps I have  fakes, or maybe my memory has failed..
> I'm away on holiday at present- will check when I return home.


 
 I don't think location guarantees better quality, anyway. Both my HD650 and HD600 (bought about 3 years ago) have mold flash (imperfections) on the headband. Not a big deal.


----------



## HOWIE13

rickb said:


> I don't think location guarantees better quality, anyway. Both my HD650 and HD600 (bought about 3 years ago) have mold flash (imperfections) on the headband. Not a big deal.


 
 Absolutely.
  
 I read lots of the individual electronic parts for audio equipment are made in the Far East anyway, even if the whole item is assembled in the 'West'.
  
 With all the Senns that are sold I'm sure we would know by now if there was a problem.


----------



## chef8489

I have never owned and really never had much experience with tube amps. I have been looking for a dac and amp I could hook up to my pc to experience tubes. Would this be a good step from solid state to tubes? How is it wilt iems as well as full size cans?


----------



## claud W

chef8489 said:


> I have never owned and really never had much experience with tube amps. I have been looking for a dac and amp I could hook up to my pc to experience tubes. Would this be a good step from solid state to tubes? How is it wilt iems as well as full size cans?


 

 The Vali 2 and Lyr 2 are not true headphone amps like Valhalla2. They are hybrid amps with good power and a tube or tubes to flavor the sound. Solid state always sounds the same. hybrids and tube amps can be flavored or tuned using different tubes.


----------



## chef8489

claud w said:


> The Vali 2 and Lyr 2 are not true headphone amps like Valhalla2. They are hybrid amps with good power and a tube or tubes to flavor the sound. Solid state always sounds the same. hybrids and tube amps can be flavored or tuned using different tubes.


 

 Yes I understand that, just not really experienced it. Thats why I was asking about it. Hows its performance with iems and full size cans? are sensitive iems a good match or should one stick with full cans? How much difference do the different tubes make on the sound?


----------



## HOWIE13

chef8489 said:


> Yes I understand that, just not really experienced it. Thats why I was asking about it. Hows its performance with iems and full size cans? are sensitive iems a good match or should one stick with full cans? How much difference do the different tubes make on the sound?


 
  
 Vali2 has low and high gain to suit headphones/earphones of different impedance/ sensitivity.
  
 Different tubes make a big difference to me. Just read all the tube rolling threads on Head -Fi to appreciate the differences various tubes can make.
 There remain, however, some who can't hear much difference between tubes. You need to experiment for yourself, but the odds are you will hear differences.


----------



## r2muchstuff

AND as with everything Head-Fi, the differences are seldom as large as the words used to describe them make it appear 
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

To be clear, I do hear differences between tubes.
  
 Thus, I have a drawer full of them 
  
 I even flavor different Schiit for specific headphones.
  
 Right now the Vali 2 is set up for Sennheiser Amperior.  They have never sounded this good.
  
 r2


----------



## rnros

I also think it is very responsive to tube rolling. Very inexpensive way to get the experience and I think you are wise to get a DAC also (Modi Multibit) to get a better sense of the sound stage possibilities. These are nice first purchases since they can still find use in the typical household as a small secondary setup if/when you decide to upgrade.
  
 Of course the Schiit amp needs one of the good tubes to shine (not necessarily expensive) but feeding a good amp with a poor source won't do it. An amp just amplifies what you feed it. Highly recommend one of the Multibits.
  
 Since someone mentioned 'flavor': The difference is like cooking with fresh herbs versus old and stale spices.


----------



## r2muchstuff

rnros said:


> ...
> Since someone mentioned 'flavor': The difference is like cooking with fresh herbs versus old and stale spices.


 
  
 I like that.
  
 We keep an herb garden just outside the kitchen door, makes a wonderful difference.
 Just like Schiit Multibit & tubes.
  
 r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

The above is from a vintage (both the equipment and the guy) solid state guy who considered tubes to be a hassle and distortions.
  
 One never knows what they will like if they keep an open mind and just try stuff, food, beverage, audio or what have you 
  
 r2


----------



## chef8489

rnros said:


> I also think it is very responsive to tube rolling. Very inexpensive way to get the experience and I think you are wise to get a DAC also (Modi Multibit) to get a better sense of the sound stage possibilities. These are nice first purchases since they can still find use in the typical household as a small secondary setup if/when you decide to upgrade.
> 
> Of course the Schiit amp needs one of the good tubes to shine (not necessarily expensive) but feeding a good amp with a poor source won't do it. An amp just amplifies what you feed it. Highly recommend one of the Multibits.
> 
> Since someone mentioned 'flavor': The difference is like cooking with fresh herbs versus old and stale spices.


 
 Why a multibit over the uber?


----------



## rnros

chef8489 said:


> Why a multibit over the uber?


 

 Greater accuracy in the D>A conversion. Will it make a difference in your setup?
 True, this is a decision you make without the opportunity to do an A/B comparison. You might feel the $100 is better spent on another part of the audio chain.
  
 Best I can tell you is to survey the information and opinions provided here on Head-Fi, search 'Schiit Multibit' and you will find many pages of information.
 Assuming you haven't already read this, so you can start with this summary review/introduction:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/815368/happy-as-a-pig-in-schiit-introducing-modi-multibit
  
 There are several additional links in the article.
  
 Measurement thread for ModiMB:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/817404/modi-mb-technical-measurements
  
 The short version and perhaps the best summary 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/785369/yggdrasil-gungnir-mb-bifrost-mb-a-terse-ribald-comparison


----------



## ToddRaymond

chef8489 said:


> Why a multibit over the uber?


 
 The Uber would be like taking in a view of the Blue Ridge Mountains in the winter, versus the sort of colours you'd get during the summer or fall months (which would be more like the gains you may perceive from the Multibit version).
  
 Here's one I took from the summer of 2013:
  

  
 Your mileage may of course vary.


----------



## dbaker1981

This is interesting. From a lot that I read people are saying the 4490 is the more preferred of the 2. That the multibit is very dry. It's good to hear a different perspective.


----------



## Letmebefrank

dbaker1981 said:


> This is interesting. From a lot that I read people are saying the 4490 is the more preferred of the 2. That the multibit is very dry. It's good to hear a different perspective.


 
  
 Can't say I've read more than one or two posts saying they liked the Uber better than the Multibit. Some like the Bifrost 4490 better but I havent heard that about the Modi 2 Uber.


----------



## tommo21

Here's my work setup at the moment-. Love my Schiit

  
 It's got a big brother by it's side as well:


----------



## nordkapp

tommo21 said:


> Here's my work setup at the moment-. Love my Schiit
> 
> 
> 
> It's got a big brother by it's side as well:


You've definitely got your Schiit together.


----------



## AviP

tommo21 said:


> Here's my work setup at the moment-. Love my Schiit
> 
> 
> 
> It's got a big brother by it's side as well:



I also use a Vali2 and ModiMB at work 
No wyrd though, I use a Thinkpad and Mac at my desk and can't really hear a difference between TOSlink from the Mac and USB from the Thinkpad, so I doubt I'd hear a difference with a wyrd.

What tube is in your Vali2? That doesn't look like stock...


----------



## tommo21

avip said:


> I also use a Vali2 and ModiMB at work
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 There's two different tubes in these pictures. The upper picture have a Siemens E88CC tube with goldpins. The lower picture got a Amperex PCC88. But I really recommend getting an adapter to try 5670 tubes. I'm having a very nice time with RCA Command 5670 tube at the moment. Also the Jan/GE 5670 is very nice. I'm also going to try a Tung-Sol 6SN7 tube tomorrow, also with an adapte. It's a chrometop, so I suspect it really is an RCA made Tung-Sol


----------



## Tuneslover

Very nice!

I've been retired for a few years now but during my working years the only thing I had in my office was a small portable radio that I rarely turned on but since joining Head-fi I can't get over how many of you out there have headphone gear at work. I'm constantly scratching my noggin wondering how you guys do it. Don't your bosses frown on this because of the constant daily distraction it must cause. Don't get me wrong, I'm envious of you folks but frankly my productivity would seriously have been impacted and I would have heard about it. What do you folks do for a living where this is permitted?


----------



## Currawong

tommo21 said:


> avip said:
> 
> 
> > I also use a Vali2 and ModiMB at work
> ...


 

 I second the 5760 tube recommendation. That was an absolutely gold find. I tried it with an adaptor in another amp that uses a 6SN7 for gain and it was just as good an upgrade.  I tried a couple of very neutral-sounding 6SN7s in the Vali 2 but I reckon the best results come with tubes that are a little coloured, which most are.


----------



## Unfin3

Hey guys, I was hoping someone might be able to help me out...
  
 I've had a Vali 2 for some time now and I've tried 2 tubes so far (stock 6BZ7 68Q7A and a Philips PCC88), both played for over 100 hours. The problem is that both tubes sounds the same as the headphone out on my DAC (Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 Interface), I'm using HD 600s and playing FLAC through Foobar. 
  
 Would I need to get some other DAC that changes the sound (to a not so flat or hyped up sound maybe)? Or is the quality of the DAC so good that it's near impossible to tell? I thought it should be night and day from a tube amp to an output running off usb power, it's driving me mad trying to find any tiny differences lol.
  
 I know some people don't know what to listen out for so they can't tell a MP3 from a FLAC, I can, I won't get it right all of the time but I can tell that they're not the same at least. This might be 1 of them hard to tell situations, if that is the case I would like to know before I go spending more on a new DAC.
  
 They all sound great to be honest but they sound the same.


----------



## bgaugs

rnros said:


> Yes on the burn-in necessity. The K7XXs I use have hundreds of hours on them and while they are not basshead phones, they are not lacking in bass IMO. The K712 is AKG's "Reference/Mastering" version that is actually made in Austria, I would expect the K712 to be a solid headphone with accurate bass. Give it time, in addition to the development and refinement of different frequency ranges, the 3D stage should also improve. But true, you may need a set with more bass.
> As far as the DAC/Amp/Tube out of the box, not surprising, they need time also. If you are using the stock tube, good idea to pick up something better. The Reflector 6N23P-EV recommended above by claudW is a great tube, I also highly recommend that tube. I have a few sets of the EVs and I've heard them in the Vali2.
> Finally, how are you feeding the DAC, USB, COAX?


 
 So you use the K7XX with the vali2? What's your favorite tube accompaniment?
 Right now I've got in a 6922EH and I'm not really noticing anything super impressive in terms of altered sound, pretty comparable to going straight into my headphone out minus the volume of course, and I've got ~30 hrs burn in. I've got a few days before I can't return the Vali2 anymore and seriously considering getting the Little Dot i+ instead.


----------



## AviP

tuneslover said:


> Very nice!
> 
> I've been retired for a few years now but during my working years the only thing I had in my office was a small portable radio that I rarely turned on but since joining Head-fi I can't get over how many of you out there have headphone gear at work. I'm constantly scratching my noggin wondering how you guys do it. Don't your bosses frown on this because of the constant daily distraction it must cause. Don't get me wrong, I'm envious of you folks but frankly my productivity would seriously have been impacted and I would have heard about it. What do you folks do for a living where this is permitted?



I'm a computer programmer and putting on headphones is how I shut out the world so I can concentrate on what I'm doing.


----------



## Tuneslover

avip said:


> I'm a computer programmer and putting on headphones is how I shut out the world so I can concentrate on what I'm doing.




All the power to you! Rock on!


----------



## rnros

bgaugs said:


> So you use the K7XX with the vali2? What's your favorite tube accompaniment?
> Right now I've got in a 6922EH and I'm not really noticing anything super impressive in terms of altered sound, pretty comparable to going straight into my headphone out minus the volume of course, and I've got ~30 hrs burn in. I've got a few days before I can't return the Vali2 anymore and seriously considering getting the Little Dot i+ instead.


 

 @bguags Quick answer is the Reflector 6N3P-E, but that requires an adapter. There are so many good tube choices possible, but here's a recent discussion on that group of tubes:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/9975#post_12894833
  
 However the immediate issue appears to be the deadline for returning the Vali2, and purchasing/shipping a new tube may not be feasible.
  
 I believe the real issue is your source and feed to the amp. In the other thread where you initially posted (http://www.head-fi.org/t/793982/vali-2-tube-rolling/615#post_12898338), you confirmed that you are using the headphone out into the Vali2. The signal has been converted and amplified by your laptop, and then is amplified again by the Vali2. The quality limit of the signal is established by the laptop. Additionally, every stage of amplification adds some distortion. True, you can get a tube that will 'alter' the sound but this approach is not consistent with the goals you indicated in the first thread, which were to improve the detail resolution and soundstage. (You correctly answered your own question, the Vali2 is just increasing the volume.) If you really want to just 'alter' the sound, you can choose one of the tubes that will add some noticeable distortion, some do enjoy the effect.
  
 If you want to improve the detail resolution, hear more of the ambient/spatial cues, improve the 3D aural image, then you may need to improve the quality of the source signal to the Vali2. You can do that by adding a DAC, or using a decent quality DAP, which may be less expensive. If you have USB connections in that chain, there is also the possibility of some additional expenditure to clean the USB signal or convert it to SPDIF (Coax or Toslink).
  
 Not sure exactly what you are working with for the source, but you want to consider the entire audio chain, it is possible that the weak link is not the tube.
  
 Last thing, I am not familiar with the LDi amp, only what I've read. I'm sure it's also a very good amp for your needs, I just don't have any experience with it.


----------



## ToddRaymond

I'm currently enjoying my Vali 2, being fed by a Pono Player (as I gave my Modi Multibit to my dad for his birthday), and driving my Ocharaku Flat 4 Kaede II 'phones.  Oh, and with a '75 6N23P SWGP Reflector.  The Bill Frisell w/ Dave Holland & Elvin Jones album is sounding mighty good right now.  For (even double) the money, I couldn't be more pleased.  The tube seems to be at least somewhat taming the sibilance these Kaedes sometimes exhibit, depending on the material.  These are ultra revealing IEMs, and they're showing just how quiet this amp really is.  I've been using low gain, both for the 'phones, and also when using it as a preamp, feeding my Ayre V-1xe.  As a preamp stop gap, it's actually working shockingly well.
  
 EDIT:  My only minor quibble is the pop it makes at about 16 seconds after turning it on.  I even turned my power amp on (took it out of standby) as soon as I heard the relay clicking at ~15 seconds, and it still threw the amp into protection mode, but not before sending a startling pop through to the speakers.  Best to wait a good 20 seconds.


----------



## nordkapp

This little amp continue to impress. It does what it does and that's it. Running the Electro Harmonix 6922, feeding my Elears. Sublime.


----------



## pieman3141

Has anyone had any experience with the HD800 S and this amp? I posted in the 800 S thread as well, but I'm looking for more impressions.


----------



## JoeKickass

My EH 6922 arrived before the Vali 2... I put it on my Magni but it's just not the same!

  
  
 Looking forward to trying out this Schiit!


----------



## Faber65

nordkapp said:


> This little amp continue to impress. It does what it does and that's it. Running the Electro Harmonix 6922, feeding my Elears. Sublime.




Absolutely!
I also have the EH6922 old pins and those are not bad at all. 
Probably a good match with the Vali2.
Are there better amps/tubes? Of course..... But at what price?


----------



## nordkapp

faber65 said:


> Absolutely!
> I also have the EH6922 old pins and those are not bad at all.
> Probably a good match with the Vali2.
> Are there better amps/tubes? Of course..... But at what price?


.....considerably more.


----------



## Faber65

Damn, I wrote "old" pins instead of GOLD. I count in your understanding to be forgiven.


----------



## Grado Diesel

Has anyone tried AKG K7xx cans with the Vali 2? I'm wondering how they'd pair. Right now I'm using Grado SR80i's but I keep seeing Massdrops on K7xx's for $199.


----------



## pieman3141

I had the K712s for a while, running on the Vali 2. Hint of warmth in the lower mids region. The K712s are almost identical to the K7xx.


----------



## Bleether

grado diesel said:


> Has anyone tried AKG K7xx cans with the Vali 2? I'm wondering how they'd pair. Right now I'm using Grado SR80i's but I keep seeing Massdrops on K7xx's for $199.


 
  
 I had my vali 2 for a short time with my K712's. Both brand new out of the box.
  
 Fist impression with no burn in was was extremely disappointing. Sound was thin, no bass, and generally a bland sound signature. After the tubes had several dozen hours of burn in along with my cans burned in, they really opened up. Night and day difference.
  
 I then rolled in a Russian reflector, and a Tesla tube. Sound was amazing. Great sound stage, mids and highs were spot on, and bass was nice and accurate but not booming or muddled.
  
 The stock Canadian tubes it comes with are pretty boring imo.


----------



## JoeKickass

I ordered a Genalex Gold Lion E88CC, the Vali 2 Tube Rolling thread seems to like it, they say it's a bit more "tubey" than the EH 6922:
 http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/Genalex-Gold-Lion-E88CC-6922
  
 The stack is looking much more serious now:


----------



## dbaker1981

joekickass said:


> I ordered a Genalex Gold Lion E88CC, the Vali 2 Tube Rolling thread seems to like it, they say it's a bit more "tubey" than the EH 6922:
> http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/Genalex-Gold-Lion-E88CC-6922
> 
> The stack is looking much more serious now:




I love my gold lion.


----------



## OldRoadToad

unfin3 said:


> Hey guys, I was hoping someone might be able to help me out...
> 
> I've had a Vali 2 for some time now and I've tried 2 tubes so far (stock 6BZ7 68Q7A and a Philips PCC88), both played for over 100 hours. The problem is that both tubes sounds the same as the headphone out on my DAC (Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 Interface), I'm using HD 600s and playing FLAC through Foobar.
> 
> ...


 
 If  you are happier listening to the music and therefor enjoying it more, then that is all the difference any sane (read: not OCD) person should want. 
  
 Or need.
  
 ORT


----------



## claud W

Its unbelievable how good this tube sounds in my Vali 2. This particular 6SN7 is a Sylvania 6SN7WGT that is probably as old as I am.


----------



## Headphone4Life

Can the Schiit Lisst tube be used with the Vali 2? I would think you can because it uses the same tubes as the Lyr 2. I'd get the Vali 2 in a heartbeat if it can be a hybrid and solid state amp.


----------



## HOWIE13

claud w said:


> Its unbelievable how good this tube sounds in my Vali 2. This particular 6SN7 is a Sylvania 6SN7WGT that is probably as old as I am.


 
 They look like the ones I have which are from 1955.


----------



## IPA-60-IBU

Do you make octal adapters yourself, or are they available somewhere? I am eyeing a 6n9s, which is an equivalent of 6sl7.


----------



## claud W

howie13 said:


> They look like the ones I have which are from 1955.


 

 That's about right. I have some others that are in original boxes and they are 1952.


----------



## HOWIE13

ipa-60-ibu said:


> Do you make octal adapters yourself, or are they available somewhere? I am eyeing a 6n9s, which is an equivalent of 6sl7.H


 
  
 Here's the sort of adapter you can buy and you will also need a 6DJ8/ECC88 socket saver to raise the 9 pins above Vali's outer casing.
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-6SN7-6N8P-CV181-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp-CNC-Copper-body-/191203120371?hash=item2c849814f3:g:8VoAAOSwgQ9V2-87
  
  
 6SL7 does have the same pin out as 6SN7 but very different characteristics. Has Schiit confirmed it will work in Vali?


----------



## Tuneslover

headphone4life said:


> Can the Schiit Lisst tube be used with the Vali 2? I would think you can because it uses the same tubes as the Lyr 2. I'd get the Vali 2 in a heartbeat if it can be a hybrid and solid state amp.



Good question!
With the LIsst tube would it sound like the Magni2Über?


----------



## poocaso

headphone4life said:


> Can the Schiit Lisst tube be used with the Vali 2? I would think you can because it uses the same tubes as the Lyr 2. I'd get the Vali 2 in a heartbeat if it can be a hybrid and solid state amp.


 

 You could but the result may not be ideal. This is from the Vali 2 FAQ on Schiit's website:
  
 "*Hey, can you use LISST in this?*
 Sure you can, but why? Magni 2 Uber is a better, more powerful, and less expensive choice for a solid-state amp."
  
 Couldn't find the post, but I remember reading another member's conclusions that pretty much confirmed the above. Even without the solid state possibility, there are still plenty of good reasons to get a Vali 2!


----------



## ToddRaymond

poocaso said:


> Even without the solid state possibility [...]


 
  
 You can definitely use a LISST.   I think it's more that they're suggesting it'd be silly to buy a Vali 2, only to stick a LISST in it.  If you want the option of also doing full solid state, you certainly could.  I was planning on tracking a down a single LISST for my Vali 2 (or getting two for an eventual Mjolnir 2 purchase), but I feel my tubes are neutral enough, that I've decided not bother having that baseline, solid state (and presumably flat) reference point, at least for now.
  
 I can't get over how good this thing is for the money.  It's ridiculous.  Even as a preamp, it does shockingly well.  Again, for the money anyhow; your mileage may such and such and that.


----------



## LazyBonesIH

howie13 said:


> You've got it correct!
> 
> I would probably try a 6DJ8 GE 'grey/smoked/dark glass' such as this, but other posters will have different opinions:
> 
> ...


 

 @HOWIE13 my wallet hates you, though my ears thank you for introducing me to the 6SN7 tubes/valves. Am currently using a VT-231 JAN Sylvania.
  
  

  
 So, I just wanted to thank you for your advice.
  
 Ian


----------



## HOWIE13

lazybonesih said:


> @HOWIE13 my wallet hates you, though my ears thank you for introducing me to the 6SN7 tubes/valves. Am currently using a VT-231 JAN Sylvania.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's a great tube. Glad you are enjoying the euphonic 6SN7 sound.


----------



## JoeKickass

Would anyone who is running a 6SN7 like to please give some details/opinions/impressions on how it compares to the EH 6922, and the Gold Lion ECC88?
  
 Would you say going from GL ECC88 to 6SN7 is as big a jump as stock to EH 6922? (Very Noticeable)
 Or is it closer to going from EH 6922 to GL ECC88? (More Slight)
  
 As a side note, the 6SN7 is the same tube Schiit is using in both their new preamps so it must have very low noise!


----------



## LazyBonesIH

Sorry, I can't wax lyrical about the different tubes/valves as I'm a bit of a newbie to tube rolling. I also can't comment on the Gold Lion ECC88 as I haven't heard one. What I do know is that 6SN7 / VT-231 that I have, sounds very good to my ears, so much so, that I now have my eyes on some other 6SN7's.
  
 Perhaps someone more experienced can comment on the sonic differences between to 6922 / ECC88 and the Octals.
  
 I was also wondering about the use 6SN7 in the new preamps, I do seem to remember that Jason (Schiit.com) commented that he bought a job lot of 6BZ7 and designed the Vali 2 for them, though my memory my be faulty. So perhaps they've bought a job lot of 6SN7's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
  
 [edited to add missing word]


----------



## Tuneslover

In preparation for arrival of the Jotunheim I decided to play musical amps amongst my 3 headphone listening setups. I was planning on selling my Magni 2U but heck it's a pretty darn good sounding amp that integrates very well with all of my Schiit DACs so it seems like a pity to get rid of it. Well it's either the Magni or the Vali2 that has to go but I love this little hybrid and the assortment of tubes that I have acquired.

Then, an idea popped into my head. Let's see how the Vali2 sounds with a secondary turntable (Rega RP1) that I have in our home theatre room. This turntable sees virtually no spin time because of the bass feedback caused by the 15" sub when the volume is raised. As a result most of my vinyl time (Rega RP6) is spent on my primary 2 channel system. So now I have the phono preamp connected to the Vali2 giving me a dedicated phono headphone setup.

Using the Senn HD598's I'm hearing a beautiful full bodied sound with very satisfying level of bass. Absolutely no hint of Sennheiser veil, I'm hearing a very engaging mid range and clear but not piercing highs. It's a very relaxing and easy listening sound with absolutely no fatigue whatsoever. The 598's have a very wide soundscape enabling nice instrument separation. All in all the sound takes me back to the '70's era sound but much clearer and engaging.

Looks like I'm not selling any of my amps now. Instead I've just a added a 4th headphone system. All's good for now but the wife has been talking about down sizing our home in the near future, but I'll deal with that whenever that becomes a reality.


----------



## tamleo

Hello,


I am choosing between the Vali1 and the Vali2. Which one has more mids range?

My headphone is the LCD2 r2 and I love its mids. So i want an amp to only focus into this range.

Thank you guys


----------



## dbaker1981

tamleo said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> I am choosing between the Vali1 and the Vali2. Which one has more mids range?
> ...




Vali 2 by far. You can actually roll the tube to get the sound you are looking for.


----------



## GhostLoveScore

I got my Vali 2 a week ago. I am very happy with it except with the perfectly smooth round knob. It's hard to tell if I am turning it or if my fingers are just going around it.


----------



## bigro

ghostlovescore said:


> I got my Vali 2 a week ago. I am very happy with it except with the perfectly smooth round knob. It's hard to tell if I am turning it or if my fingers are just going around it.


 
 My Knob got looser as I used it. Or I got a better grip. Either way its not even a problem anymore


----------



## poocaso

ghostlovescore said:


> I got my Vali 2 a week ago. I am very happy with it except with the perfectly smooth round knob. It's hard to tell if I am turning it or if my fingers are just going around it.




For a cheap and simple mod, I've seen posts where users put an O-ring or two around the volume knob.


----------



## AxelCloris

I have cleaned up several of the recent posts in this thread. Let's try to keep on topic, everyone.


----------



## tamleo

Hello,
 Im a newbie. Can anyone tell me how the stock tube is compared to other 3rd brand ones at ~$20? I think Schiit chose 6BZ7 to be stock tube because it is the best p/p option or something, isn't it?
 Thanks


----------



## ToddRaymond

Tamleo, if you descend far enough into the rabbit hole that is tube rolling, you may eventually find that cost isn't everything.

I haven't bothered to try any other tubes in that price range, as I already had purchased a few pairs of much pricier ones ('74 and '75 6N23P SWGP Reflektors). Then I purchased some 6N3P-E Reflektors (thanks to @rnros' invaluable sharing of his experiences), and for ~$2 US/tube, I could not be more pleased.

It's all personal preference, but I would highly recommend doing the following: Go to this post and read everything, and click every link* in it - http://www.head-fi.org/t/815368/happy-as-a-pig-in-schiit-introducing-modi-multibit/1425#post_12963738

There's also tonnes of info in the Lyr tube rolling thread(s), as well as the Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2 treads.

Happy listenin'.

*EDIT: Except you'll want THIS adapter: http://r.ebay.com/D2T8pJ


----------



## tamleo

turdski said:


> Tamleo, if you descend far enough into the rabbit hole that is tube rolling, you may eventually find that cost isn't everything.
> 
> I haven't bothered to try any other tubes in that price range, as I already had purchased a few pairs of much pricier ones ('74 and '75 6N23P SWGP Reflektors). Then I purchased some 6N3P-E Reflektors (thanks to @rnros' invaluable sharing of his experiences), and for ~$2 US/tube, I could not be more pleased.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks,
 Do you mean 6N23P?
 I saw all tubes in those links but still had some curiosities about the stock tube. I will buy all at once when order the Vali in my traveling trip to the US. Because i live outside the USA so it's very hard and expensive to buy this kind of stuffs from my country


----------



## mickkyfly

I am new here and will like to say Hi to everyone


----------



## ToddRaymond

tamleo said:


> Thanks,
> Do you mean 6N23P?
> I saw all tubes in those links but still had some curiosities about the stock tube. I will buy all at once when order the Vali in my traveling trip to the US. Because i live outside the USA so it's very hard and expensive to buy this kind of stuffs from my country


 
  
 I meant 6N23P when I wrote 6N23P, and I meant 6N3P-E when I wrote 6N3P-E.  I did, however, mean to write black hole, as opposed to rabbit hole.
  


mickkyfly said:


> I am new here and will like to say Hi to everyone


 
  
 Hullo!


----------



## RickB

mickkyfly said:


> I am new here and will like to say Hi to everyone




Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet.


----------



## Noremac82

I have been away for a while working on what i now am calling my "big" amp. My little Vali2 is still plugging along like a champ. The mods have held up fine after at least 4 or 5 hours of listening each day. I swapped out some of the smt resistors and caps for some that I knew the specs on and might have eeked out a little more SQ that is only perceivable by me. So yea, it was worth it haha. I am being very facetious there. No I don't know if it improved it at all but it did help me to learn a few things about designing and choosing components for an amp so that was the major benefit to me. 

I have bought quite a few new tubes over the past months. I got a couple more amperex 7308 because I am, well I was, using them in the phono stage of the big amp. Of course I had to try them in the vali2 and I will have to say, in their stock configuration, no cryo treatment, I really like them. The cryo treated one I got just isn't my cup of tea. It's just too sharp sounding for my taste. I really should sell it but I will most likely hang on to it in hopes of finding that perfect spot for it. 

The 7308's were my favorite until an older gentleman at work kindly allowed me to purchase one of his telefunken ecc88. He gave it to me for a really good price so I absolutely had to have i. I think you all know how that story goes. I am glad I couldn't control my urges because that baby sure can sing. Some of the other tubes had what I thought was wonderful soundstage, and they do. I am not knocking them at all. This thing is on a different level though. I now know what people mean by holographic. This thing has sounds coming from every direction. With music you get a front row seat. With gaming and movies, the adjective that really comes to mind is immersed. Based on that experience I purchased a Siemens ecc88 and I am just as pleased with it. So now I am thinking these guys will have to be implemented into my "big" amp in some way. We will see how that goes. 

The gentleman at work also threw in a telefunken ecc85 for me to try. I looked at the spec sheet and it met the requirements so I gave it a try. With it I am hearing a reoccurring theme with the german tubes. All are as open as I could ever imagine. The ecc85 isn't as detailed as the ecc88 but it definitely has its spot in my tube rotation.

Lastly I took a gamble on an eBay lot of 3 supposed Siemens Halske pcc88's at a mind blowing price of 45 bucks shipped from germany. I figured what the hell, I don't drink anymore, I don't gamble, why not live on the edge a little. Well I am glad I did because it was better than I expected. There were two of the Siemens Pcc88's but the third was another of the Siemens ecc88's. Score for the home team! The pcc88's sound identical to the ecc88 in my opinion. Or at least I can't tell a difference. They all are now my absolute favorite tube for the vali2. They sound great with my 650's, mk3's and the audio technica's that I can't remember the model of to save my life right now, ath-700 maybe. 

I think I will call it an overall win and not press my luck on the random, low sale count ebay users for a while. I am sure old lady karma will be looking for her share so I gotta watch out. 

Any of the tubes I have mentioned(minus the ecc85) are about as good as they can get so I would highly recommend any of them. The 7308's are extremely detailed and have a respectable Soundstage. The German tubes are just wide open with very respectable detail. They may also have better bass but the jury is still out on that. So it boils down to picking your poison. Do you want to hear the second oboist clear their throat, or do you want to be immersed in the recording? To me it really is that simple. I know what my choice is but everyone has different expectations from their equipment. I am thankful that I have the choice between the two but I wanted to put those observations out there in case they may help someone else make a decision between the two. 

I guess it's back into the shadows to work on my "big" amp. I just thought I would pop on and give a few updates on my little vali2 amp and some of the tubes I have tried in it recently. I am now looking for some of the old reflektor tubes but can't make any sense of which are supposed to be good so I need to read up in order to avoid getting stuck with something that's just OK. I have sadly reached the point where I want the absolute best. That's why it's taking me so long to get this other amp built. I have spared no cost with it really so it's either a save to buy it or look for sales kind of deal at this point. I would prefer to build my "end game" amp once and only once so that I can go on to some of my other hobbies. This hobby didn't just dent my wallet, it has chewed it up and poo'd it out! If I keep going this would have to be my only hobby and I gotta stay diverse haha. Regardless, once I have it done my Vali2 along with the fostex mk3's will be going to work with me and will have a comfy home on my desk.Now If I could just stop buying tubes for the vali2 my build might go a little faster! 

I would also like to say please don't take my luck with that ebay purchase as the norm. It's most certainly is not. When I first got into this hobby I got burnt a couple times by trying to save money and find deals. I found out the hard way that it's usually a you get what you pay for kind of thing. I guess that lucky ebay score was the God's way of making up for the fact I got bamboozled a couple times early on in this hobby. I'm leaving it as what it is and will only be buying from reputable dealers now. I dont mind paying a little extra for the guarantee of knowing I will be getting exactly what I ordered. 

Take care everyone and keep those posts coming! I check this thread frequently to see what everyone is listening to.


----------



## rnros

turdski said:


> I meant 6N23P when I wrote 6N23P, and I meant 6N3P-E when I wrote 6N3P-E.  I did, however, mean to write black hole, as opposed to rabbit hole.


 
 LOL. You heard the man, he says what he means and he means what he says... Erhh, never mind, he got the holes mixed up.


----------



## tdockweiler

Has anyone tried both the Vali1 and Vali2 with the Q701? IMO the Vali1 was one of the best budget amps for the Q701 (only).
 I think for the Q701 it sounds better than the O2 and Magni 1.
  
 If this sounds even better for the Q701 then I should get it.
  
 How is it with the HD-650?
 I hate the HD-650 with the Vali1. I don't of course expect it to be the perfect match.
 My guess is that it's slightly better with the HD-650 than the Vali1. I know it has way more than enough power to drive the HD-650.
 To MY ears the HD-650 sounds bad on amps that are too warm. The Vali1 didn't sound that warm to me, but with the HD-650 it did.
 I think maybe it was just bad synergy.
  
 Expecting the Q701 AND HD-650 to sound great on the Vali2 is probably asking too much! Few amps seem to do this well.
  
 I just got a Little Dot 1+ to play with and I'm kind of disappointed that it sounds so bad with the HD-650 and SOMEHOW the Q701.
 Obviously it wasn't really meant for the HD-650, but it can drive it easily.
  
 I guess the Vali2 is worth a try and I already have some tubes for it.


----------



## GhostLoveScore

tamleo said:


> Because i live outside the USA so it's very hard and expensive to buy this kind of stuffs from my country


 
  
 Don't you have to pay import taxes when you cross the border?


----------



## JoeKickass

tdockweiler said:


> Has anyone tried both the Vali1 and Vali2 with the Q701? IMO the Vali1 was one of the best budget amps for the Q701 (only).
> I think for the Q701 it sounds better than the O2 and Magni 1.
> 
> If this sounds even better for the Q701 then I should get it.
> ...


 
  
 I had the Vali 1 and liked it too but the ringing was too much for me. I didn't get a chance to try it with my HD 600 but it was great with the HD 558.
 But the Vali 2 is a big step up IMO.
  
 I love the ability to roll tubes! If you don't want warmth you would probably like the EH 6922 tube. If you can deal with a bit more warmth the Gold Lion E88CC is very popular for it's wide soundstage.
  
 But with so many sound signatures available it becomes much more likely to hit upon a "favorite" combo so I wouldn't be surprised if you find tubes that suit both headphones.
  
 Here's a fun review on the Gold Lion in the Vali 2 (probably too warm you with hd 650):


rgmffn said:


> Chalk up another Gold Lion fan.  Although I already have these..
> 
> Stock - ITT 6BQ7A (Japan)
> JJ6922 / E88CC
> ...


----------



## Headphone4Life

I was leaning toward getting the Jotunheim but after thinking about the Vali 2 plus the Modi 2 Uber will work great imo and I'd save about $200.  I think the Elear would match fine with that setup and if anyone is using that setup with them let me know what you think.


----------



## tamleo

ghostlovescore said:


> Don't you have to pay import taxes when you cross the border?


 
 Yeah, only if i don't bring too many (above 20 tubes i guess). Many people think tubes are just for illumination and cheap.


----------



## Grado Diesel

Anyone using HD6XX or 650s with the Vali 2? I'm just curious how the Vali 2 handles these. I'm using Grado SR80is right now with mine and the brightness is just killing my ears.


----------



## RickB

grado diesel said:


> Anyone using HD6XX or 650s with the Vali 2? I'm just curious how the Vali 2 handles these. I'm using Grado SR80is right now with mine and the brightness is just killing my ears.


 
 The HD650 sounds great with the Vali 2. A very mellow and smooth sound. It might be too laid-back for some.


----------



## Grado Diesel

rickb said:


> The HD650 sounds great with the Vali 2. A very mellow and smooth sound. It might be too laid-back for some.



Sounds like just what I'm looking for!


----------



## Tuneslover

grado diesel said:


> Anyone using HD6XX or 650s with the Vali 2? I'm just curious how the Vali 2 handles these. I'm using Grado SR80is right now with mine and the brightness is just killing my ears.



I find the HD650 is a bit too laid back sounding with my Vali2 and Mimby. I recently moved the V2 to my turntable setup and it sounds much better there with the 650's.


----------



## Faber65

grado diesel said:


> Anyone using HD6XX or 650s with the Vali 2? I'm just curious how the Vali 2 handles these. I'm using Grado SR80is right now with mine and the brightness is just killing my ears.




I have the sr125i, which somehow shares the same Grado sound signature with the smaller siblings, and I found them in good synergy with the Vali2. 
But my final suggestion is to try it yourself before purchasing.


----------



## r2muchstuff

tuneslover said:


> I find the HD650 is a bit too laid back sounding with my Vali2 and Mimby. I recently moved the V2 to my turntable setup and it sounds much better there with the 650's.


 

 Try a brighter and detailed tube.  I found the Reflector 6N3P E with adapter or 6N23P to address the "Laid Back".  German tubes are good also.
  
 However, right now I have a 6SN7GT installed and the synergy with my Grado SR 325e is wonderful.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

faber65 said:


> I have the sr125i, which somehow shares the same Grado sound signature with the smaller siblings, and I found them in good synergy with the Vali2.
> But my final suggestion is to try it yourself before purchasing.


 

 See my above.
  
 r2


----------



## Faber65

r2muchstuff said:


> faber65 said:
> 
> 
> > I have the sr125i, which somehow shares the same Grado sound signature with the smaller siblings, and I found them in good synergy with the Vali2.
> ...




Yes, I agree completely on the fact that a good 6SN7 can smoother the harshness without losing the details.


----------



## Tuneslover

r2muchstuff said:


> Try a brighter and detailed tube.  I found the Reflector 6N3P E with adapter or 6N23P to address the "Laid Back".  German tubes are good also.
> 
> However, right now I have a 6SN7GT installed and the synergy with my Grado SR 325e is wonderful.
> 
> ...



I have rolled a few other tubes, mostly out of curiosity but I found that switching to other headphones with a bit brighter nature gave me the synergy I was looking for.


----------



## r2muchstuff

tuneslover said:


> I have rolled a few other tubes, mostly out of curiosity but I found that switching to other headphones with a bit brighter nature gave me the synergy I was looking for.


 

 Yes.  For me Grado and Beyer.
  
 I am actually using the HD 650 balanced out of a Mjolnir 2 with Reflectors installed.  A different level with the HD650.
  
 r2
  
 PS Trying 396A Western Electric - NOS - 1976 in the Mjolnir 2, first blush with the HD 650 is promising


----------



## Tuneslover

tuneslover said:


> I find the HD650 is a bit too laid back sounding with my Vali2 and Mimby. I recently moved the V2 to my turntable setup and it sounds much better there with the 650's.


 

  
 New home for my Vali2, with HD650.  Using the EH6922 I'm getting sufficient clarity and detail, as well as, nice bass depth.  Fun listening to vinyl of yester year via tube goodness.


----------



## Harry Manback

Anyone else find channel imbalance at low volume?  The pot used on mine SUCKS.  I've never heard imbalance this bad on anything.
  
 Led is bright as the sun and leaks out through big gap left by volume knob too.
  
 It sounds good at normal volume though, and I'm pretty happy overall, but for those saying it's perfect, I call BS.


----------



## Ghyl

Greetings fellow Head-fiers!
  
 I guess I'm about to get stoned but I risk to ask you anyway: is the Vali 2 a good choice as my first quality amp if I'm going to use it not only for music but gaming as well? (I have a Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250 Ohm headphone.)


----------



## Letmebefrank

ghyl said:


> Greetings fellow Head-fiers!
> 
> I guess I'm about to get stoned but I risk to ask you anyway: is the Vali 2 a good choice as my first quality amp if I'm going to use it not only for music but gaming as well? (I have a Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250 Ohm headphone.)




I used the Vali 2 with a modi 2 Uber, then a modi multibit feeding my HD650s for gaming. It was good but not great for the types of games I play. I play very serious competitive FPS games (arma 3 breaking point, arma 3 Sa-matra wasteland, etc.) so audio quality is very important to me. I must have good positioning, accuracy and spaciousness in the audio to hear enemies sneaking up on me. If you die in breaking point on a 270 square km map it can take an hour or more to get back to your friends. 

I prefer solid state for gaming. My latest amp Jotunheim blows the Vali 2 out of the water for gaming with my balanced HD650s. However, the Vali 2 is no slouch. Compared to onboard audio it is a fantastic upgrade. For a first amp it is a wonderfully diverse option. If you can find the right tube to get the clarity and spaciousness needed for competitive FPS, it will serve you very well. I still have mine, waiting for when I build a vinyl setup.


----------



## JoeKickass

harry manback said:


> Anyone else find channel imbalance at low volume?  The pot used on mine SUCKS...
> 
> It sounds good at normal volume though...


 
  
 My Vali 2 pot is pretty good even at low volumes.
  
 I remember my old Magni had a pretty unbalanced pot, I couldn't listen very low at all before one side cut off, the Magni 2U was better but my Vali 2 has the most balanced pot I've tried at low volumes.
  
 I would email Schiit, they'll probably be willing to do a swap since most people don't experience imbalance.


----------



## Ghyl

letmebefrank said:


> I used the Vali 2 with a modi 2 Uber, then a modi multibit feeding my HD650s for gaming. It was good but not great for the types of games I play. I play very serious competitive FPS games (arma 3 breaking point, arma 3 Sa-matra wasteland, etc.) so audio quality is very important to me. I must have good positioning, accuracy and spaciousness in the audio to hear enemies sneaking up on me. If you die in breaking point on a 270 square km map it can take an hour or more to get back to your friends.
> 
> I prefer solid state for gaming. My latest amp Jotunheim blows the Vali 2 out of the water for gaming with my balanced HD650s. However, the Vali 2 is no slouch. Compared to onboard audio it is a fantastic upgrade. For a first amp it is a wonderfully diverse option. If you can find the right tube to get the clarity and spaciousness needed for competitive FPS, it will serve you very well. I still have mine, waiting for when I build a vinyl setup.


 
 Thank you for the information. Vali 2 it is then (and Jotunheim will join the gang later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## hrbngr

@Letmebefrank
 Thanks for the feedback between the Jotunheim and the Vali 2.  I would prefer not to get into the habit of tube rolling, then fall into that rabbit hole. I am starting to lean towards just picking the Jotunheim straight away since I would also be gaming on my PC in addition to listening to FLACs, etc. The dragonfly black 1.5 DAC has been great right out of the USB port, but I would love to add some volume control to the equation as I currently have to set my master sound volume to only 2 or 3 when using the DAC connected to my Senn 558s or 64 audio SE4s.


----------



## JoeKickass

hrbngr said:


> @Letmebefrank
> Thanks for the feedback between the Jotunheim and the Vali 2.  I would prefer not to get into the habit of tube rolling, then fall into that rabbit hole. I am starting to lean towards just picking the Jotunheim straight away since I would also be gaming on my PC in addition to listening to FLACs, etc...


 
  
 They complement each other very well! Before the Jot I had the Magni 2U (very good but Jot is a step up) but I will keep the Vali 2 because of the different tube flavors:


----------



## Letmebefrank

hrbngr said:


> @Letmebefrank
> 
> Thanks for the feedback between the Jotunheim and the Vali 2.  I would prefer not to get into the habit of tube rolling, then fall into that rabbit hole. I am starting to lean towards just picking the Jotunheim straight away since I would also be gaming on my PC in addition to listening to FLACs, etc. The dragonfly black 1.5 DAC has been great right out of the USB port, but I would love to add some volume control to the equation as I currently have to set my master sound volume to only 2 or 3 when using the DAC connected to my Senn 558s or 64 audio SE4s.




Jot is basically an endgame amp for me, although I might get a BH crack for the fun of putting it together and use it for vinyl over the Vali 2.


----------



## Harry Manback

joekickass said:


> My Vali 2 pot is pretty good even at low volumes.
> 
> I remember my old Magni had a pretty unbalanced pot, I couldn't listen very low at all before one side cut off, the Magni 2U was better but my Vali 2 has the most balanced pot I've tried at low volumes.
> 
> I would email Schiit, they'll probably be willing to do a swap since most people don't experience imbalance.




I had considered this, but their faq claims that is inherint to pots. I assumed they would tell me to shove it.


----------



## 460414

Not sure if this is the thread to ask in (created a thread and got no responses): I am looking for a ~$100-$200 headphone tube amp with a fair bit of a tube sound (high 2nd harmonic distortion) and somewhat reasonably low 3rd, 5th, 7th etc harmonic distortion. Would this be a good choice + maybe a tube swap?
  
 Never properly heard a tube amp and just want something cheap with a tube sound.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

nbe9 said:


> Not sure if this is the thread to ask in (created a thread and got no responses): I am looking for a ~$100-$200 headphone tube amp with a fair bit of a tube sound (high 2nd harmonic distortion) and somewhat reasonably low 3rd, 5th, 7th etc harmonic distortion. Would this be a good choice + maybe a tube swap?
> 
> Never properly heard a tube amp and just want something cheap with a tube sound.



Depending on your headphone... Maybe a Darkvoice 335se (used or on sale) would first the bill.


----------



## Tuneslover

For those out there that use a stand alone DAC on their 2 channel speaker system, how (if at all) did it improve your system?
  
 A few years ago I bought a Schiit Bifrost Uber (recently upgraded to 4490) to see if I could improve/correct my 2 channel speaker system and it did make noticeable improvements by widening the soundscape and filling in the centre gap in sound.  Instead of hearing 2 separate speakers I was hearing a full wall of sound.  The room that my speaker system was in wasn't a very audio friendly room.  It was a very lively room due to the hardwood floor, no wall coverings and in general little damping characteristics.
  
 Several months ago I decided to create a man-cave in our finished basement and move my audio equipment down there.  This room is very well damped being a fully carpeted room, it has comfy furniture as well as lots of pictures and posters on the walls.  Well there certainly was a monumental improvement in sound quality.  The man-cave completely eliminated any echoy nature and I was able to hear my equipment unencumbered by problematic characteristics.  It was like hearing a completely different stereo system.
  
 After a while I began to wonder how much the Bifrost contributed to the sound transformation down in my man-cave.  So I decided to compare the sound with and without the Bifrost.  In addition to the digital connection from my CD player into the Bifrost (analog out of Bifrost into Arcam preamp/amp combo), I also connected separate analog cables straight from the CD player into another input into my Arcam preamp/power amp combo.  So now I could simply switch inputs on my Arcam to hear the difference between: WITH Bifrost, and NO Bifrost.
  
 To my surprise I was hard pressed to hear any difference between either option.  I was puzzled.  Did I mess up my connections or is there something wrong with my Bifrost?  Well I double and triple checked my connections and I'm pretty sure everything connection wise is in order.  So why virtually no change in sound?  In order to see if it's the Bifrost, I put my Modi Multibit in it's place.  Well, again virtually no difference in this configuration either.  The Modi MB does seem to present a slightly better 3 dimensional sonic image but it's very slight at best.
  
 Any ideas?
  
 EDIT:  Sorry I posted this to the wrong thread, I re-posted it to the intended Bifrost Multibit thread.


----------



## Mr Rick

tuneslover said:


> For those out there that use a stand alone DAC on their 2 channel speaker system, how (if at all) did it improve your system?
> 
> A few years ago I bought a Schiit Bifrost Uber (recently upgraded to 4490) to see if I could improve/correct my 2 channel speaker system and it did make noticeable improvements by widening the soundscape and filling in the centre gap in sound.  Instead of hearing 2 separate speakers I was hearing a full wall of sound.  The room that my speaker system was in wasn't a very audio friendly room.  It was a very lively room due to the hardwood floor, no wall coverings and in general little damping characteristics.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your results come as no surprise to me. But, I tend to be in the minority.


----------



## OldRoadToad

.


----------



## 460414

waytoocrazy said:


> Depending on your headphone... Maybe a Darkvoice 335se (used or on sale) would first the bill.


 
 What about the 336se?
  
  
 Any recommendations from anyone else? In regards to:


nbe9 said:


> Not sure if this is the thread to ask in (created a thread and got no responses): I am looking for a ~$100-$200 headphone tube amp with a fair bit of a tube sound (high 2nd harmonic distortion) and somewhat reasonably low 3rd, 5th, 7th etc harmonic distortion. Would this be a good choice + maybe a tube swap?
> 
> Never properly heard a tube amp and just want something cheap with a tube sound.


 
 Make it ~$100-$400 if need be.
  
 Also where should I be asking about this?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

nbe9 said:


> What about the 336se?


 
 That is actually what I meant. There is also the LD Mk2, which is currently on a inexpensive drop on Massdrop.


----------



## HOWIE13

waytoocrazy said:


> That is actually what I meant. There is also the LD Mk2, which is currently on a inexpensive drop on Massdrop.


 
 I found the LD2 a great introduction to tube amps and very inexpensive for what you get.


----------



## Grado Diesel

Right now I'm using a FIIO X3II into my Vali 2 with Genalex Gold Lion into my Grado SR80i's. As the tube has burned in over the last couple weeks of 40 hour a week use, I'm finding it to be a bit brighter than when I first put the tube in. Too bright a good bit of the time. I've gotten a lot of suggestions for darker cans but before I make that purchase I was wondering if maybe a Schiit Modi 2 Multibit would ease the fatiguing highs of my current set up?


----------



## HOWIE13

grado diesel said:


> Right now I'm using a FIIO X3II into my Vali 2 with Genalex Gold Lion into my Grado SR80i's. As the tube has burned in over the last couple weeks of 40 hour a week use, I'm finding it to be a bit brighter than when I first put the tube in. Too bright a good bit of the time. I've gotten a lot of suggestions for darker cans but before I make that purchase I was wondering if maybe a Schiit Modi 2 Multibit would ease the fatiguing highs of my current set up?


 
 I'm sure you are thinking on the right lines considering a dedicated DAC. Whether the Schiit will suit is hard to say- it's a great DAC but people hear things differently.
 The good thing is Schiit usually give you a trial period and you can return it if it doesn't suit.


----------



## Tuneslover

grado diesel said:


> Right now I'm using a FIIO X3II into my Vali 2 with Genalex Gold Lion into my Grado SR80i's. As the tube has burned in over the last couple weeks of 40 hour a week use, I'm finding it to be a bit brighter than when I first put the tube in. Too bright a good bit of the time. I've gotten a lot of suggestions for darker cans but before I make that purchase I was wondering if maybe a Schiit Modi 2 Multibit would ease the fatiguing highs of my current set up?


 
 I have the X5ii and Vali 2 as well and I also have the Modi MB and Grado SR80's (not "i").  Normally I don't use the Grado's with this rig because of the brightness of these headphones.  I think I tried them once out of curiosity but found them to be too intensely bright.  I prefer using other headphones with this setup and I continue to use the Grado's for watching TV where their brightness really helps with TV audio clarity.
  
 I should mention that I use the EH6922, JJE88CC (GP) and Tesla E88CC (GP) on a rotating basis.  I find the EH6922 has the deepest bass of my tubes.
  
 Initially I ran the X5ii and Vali 2 together thereby using the X5's internal DAC.  The headphones I used most frequently were the HD650 and DT1350, preferring the latter.  If memory serves me correctly it sounded pretty decent and perhaps a touch warm.  I then introduced the Bifrost 4490 and what stood out most was that the Schiit DAC brought a better sound to the system.  Clarity and tighter bass.  A few months ago I purchased the Modi MB and replaced the 4490 with it.  Although the difference wasn't that huge I found that there was a slightly better 3-dimensional sound but perhaps the bass was less pronounced, still punchy, perhaps a bit tighter.
  
 With respect to your situation, I would suggest that you try to other headphones.  Although experimenting with different tubes and DAC's you will tailor the sound of your system but on a much smaller scale than introducing 1 or more headphones to the stall.  Since you are probably accustomed to a brighter headphone I would suggest a shift to a more neutral headphone but don't drift too far as you might not appreciate the darker sound (yet).  Personally I like the Sennheiser HD598 (I have the black SE version).  It reminds me of the Grado sound but does lean into the warmer Sennheiser sound.  As mentioned earlier I also like the Beyerdynamic DT1350 as it is detailed sounding but not bright, it also has nice quality and depth of bass.
  
 Your best bet is to beg, borrow, steal, I mean audition, some other headphones until you find the one that meets with the sound signature that you're looking for.  All the Best!


----------



## Grado Diesel

tuneslover said:


> I have the X5ii and Vali 2 as well and I also have the Modi MB and Grado SR80's (not "i").  Normally I don't use the Grado's with this rig because of the brightness of these headphones.  I think I tried them once out of curiosity but found them to be too intensely bright.  I prefer using other headphones with this setup and I continue to use the Grado's for watching TV where their brightness really helps with TV audio clarity.
> 
> I should mention that I use the EH6922, JJE88CC (GP) and Tesla E88CC (GP) on a rotating basis.  I find the EH6922 has the deepest bass of my tubes.
> 
> ...




How do the 598s compare to 650s? I like the price - $149.


----------



## Tuneslover

grado diesel said:


> How do the 598s compare to 650s? I like the price - $149.


 
 The HD650 is a much more resolving and refined headphone than the HD598.  The 598 doesn't need a standalone amp, although it does sound better with one.  On the other hand the HD650's scale extremely well with a good quality amp.  I found that the 650's seemed pretty lacklustre when paired with the X5ii.  The 598 is much easier to drive and will pair better with the X5ii.  Lastly, going from a Grado SR80 to the HD650 is a pretty dramatic shift in sound signature that may require some getting used to.  Everyone hears and assesses headphones differently so I would encourage you to audition the HD598's so that you can decided for yourself.


----------



## 460414

waytoocrazy said:


> There is also the LD Mk2, which is currently on a inexpensive drop on Massdrop.


 
  


howie13 said:


> I found the LD2 a great introduction to tube amps and very inexpensive for what you get.


 
  
 It advertises a THD+N of 0.1%, if that was 100% 2nd harmonic then the 2nd harmonic would be -60dB. Is that really enough to tube sound? Considering that the THD+N ins't 100% 2nd harmonic, hence its probably more like -70dB? If the specs are reliable.
  
 The LD MK2 advertises >2% which I would have though would be far better to get the tube sound?


----------



## Grado Diesel

tuneslover said:


> The HD650 is a much more resolving and refined headphone than the HD598.  The 598 doesn't need a standalone amp, although it does sound better with one.  On the other hand the HD650's scale extremely well with a good quality amp.  I found that the 650's seemed pretty lacklustre when paired with the X5ii.  The 598 is much easier to drive and will pair better with the X5ii.  Lastly, going from a Grado SR80 to the HD650 is a pretty dramatic shift in sound signature that may require some getting used to.  Everyone hears and assesses headphones differently so I would encourage you to audition the HD598's so that you can decided for yourself.




The thing I'm shooting for right now is getting away from the fatiguing highs of the Grados. 99% of the time I'm going to be powering the headphone with my Vali 2 so ohms won't be a problem. I just want to make sure the 598s won't be too bright like the SR80i's were.


----------



## HOWIE13

nbe9 said:


> It advertises a THD+N of 0.1%, if that was 100% 2nd harmonic then the 2nd harmonic would be -60dB. Is that really enough to tube sound? Considering that the THD+N ins't 100% 2nd harmonic, hence its probably more like -70dB? If the specs are reliable.
> 
> The LD MK2 advertises >2% which I would have though would be far better to get the tube sound?


 
  
 I was referring to the LD2Mk2. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I didn't know the original LD2 was made anymore. 
  
 Actually, though, personally, I prefer my ears to be the judge of sound, You can never be sure until you listen. I've learned that from bitter experience.
 I don't obsess too much about quoted figures- there are too many confounding issues.


----------



## Tuneslover

grado diesel said:


> The thing I'm shooting for right now is getting away from the fatiguing highs of the Grados. 99% of the time I'm going to be powering the headphone with my Vali 2 so ohms won't be a problem. I just want to make sure the 598s won't be too bright like the SR80i's were.




Yeah the 598's lean relatively close to the Grado sound but not quite as piercing in my opinion. I find the bass on my 598's to be somewhat better too. If you're ready to move into the 650 sound signature then for sure go for it because the Vali 2 can drive them pretty well. I just find this pairing is a bit too dark for my liking but that might be what you're striving for. I'm sure there are many other can brands out there that will meet your needs. Like I said, if at all possible audition as many headphones that you can before you purchase.


----------



## Grado Diesel

tuneslover said:


> Yeah the 598's lean relatively close to the Grado sound but not quite as piercing in my opinion. I find the bass on my 598's to be somewhat better too. If you're ready to move into the 650 sound signature then for sure go for it because the Vali 2 can drive them pretty well. I just find this pairing is a bit too dark for my liking but that might be what you're striving for. I'm sure there are many other can brands out there that will meet your needs. Like I said, if at all possible audition as many headphones that you can before you purchase.




And auditioning is definitely a problem around here (Maine). We don't have any stores that sell quality headphones. Seems like HD 598s and 650s are not sold on Crutchfield anymore but you can find them on Amazon and sometimes Massdrop has more custom models made. Wherever I get them from it would be great if it was a place that accepts returns if the customer is not satisfied.


----------



## Tuneslover

grado diesel said:


> And auditioning is definitely a problem around here (Maine). We don't have any stores that sell quality headphones. Seems like HD 598s and 650s are not sold on Crutchfield anymore but you can find them on Amazon and sometimes Massdrop has more custom models made. Wherever I get them from it would be great if it was a place that accepts returns if the customer is not satisfied.



Watch for the Amazon Black Friday sale next week. Last year I bought my 598's then for a wicked deal. I only bought them because of the price $99 US / $112 Cdn. Turns out that I really like them. Who knows maybe you'll find a good deal on something yourself.


----------



## earsandshit

So Jotunheim or Vali 2 / Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Multibit combo for HD 650?


----------



## HOWIE13

earsand****    So Jotunheim or Vali 2 / Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Multibit combo for HD 650? said:
			
		

> *earsand**** /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> So Jotunheim or Vali 2 / Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Multibit combo for HD 650?
> *


 
*  
 I have no idea about Jotunheim and Magni 2 Uber,, but what I can say is for my ears the Modi 2 Multibit with Vali 2 using an ECC804 (6/30L2) tube gives the best sound I have ever experienced out of the HD650.
*


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

edit:  nm, i said screw it and just bought this instead

https://introprose.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/rca-crossconnect-for-schiit-stack


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

howie13 said:


> I have no idea about Jotunheim and Magni 2 Uber,, but what I can say is for my ears the Modi 2 Multibit with Vali 2 using an ECC804 (6/30L2) tube gives the best sound I have ever experienced out of the HD650.


 
 does ECC804 (6/30L2) require an adapter on vali 2? or is it compatible by default? i found one in UK cheap but want to make sure i dont have to buy an adapter... actually can you just link me the exact tube you use? because I want the same experience when my HD6xx arrive DDD


----------



## HOWIE13

caenlenfromocn said:


> does ECC804 (6/30L2) require an adapter on vali 2? or is it compatible by default? i found one in UK cheap but want to make sure i dont have to buy an adapter... actually can you just link me the exact tube you use? because I want the same experience when my HD6xx arrive DDD


 
  
 Hi
 No adapter needed-just insert and play!
 The dealer I bought the tube I'm using in Vali2 from doesn't have any more in stock but my understanding is that all the ECC804 (6/30L) tubes were made by Brimar, however they are branded, and are identical. I do have Ediswan, Mazda and Zaerix brands and they are the same as my Brimar.  
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## listen4joy

i think that with hd800 bh crack is better choice, i have the vali 2 with stock tube and i feel its less musical, narrower soundstage and i am little dissapointed. sure for the price is great but not the best choice with hd 800.


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

listen4joy said:


> i think that with hd800 bh crack is better choice, i have the vali 2 with stock tube and i feel its less musical, narrower soundstage and i am little dissapointed. sure for the price is great but not the best choice with hd 800.


 
  
 that is twice the price of Vali 2 though so I will have to pass.  add in speedball and now its 3x the price... so yeah I can't do that especially since i got vali 2 used for $105 lol im good


----------



## sarang-i

I looking at this nowadays.
  
 Could it be worked well with hd6xx that i bought recently released in massdrop?
 and can it be used with iems as well?


----------



## iqofafish

Well I took the plunge and purchased one of these little beauties. It's now powering a new pair of HD650's and sourced by a laptop & Behringer uca202 combo and I absolutely love it.
  
 Time to kick back and enjoy it and read up on suitable tube rolling.
  
 Happy days.


----------



## claud W

caenlenfromocn said:


> that is twice the price of Vali 2 though so I will have to pass.  add in speedball and now its 3x the price... so yeah I can't do that especially since i got vali 2 used for $105 lol im good


 

 You need a Russian 6H23P tube to liven up the Vali 2. Go to The Tube Store and buy their 6H23n-EB with the triodes matched.  or just get their 6H23P with matched triodes. The Vali 2 uses one triode of the tube per channel which is why you need balanced triodes.


----------



## AviP

claud w said:


> You need a Russian 6H23P tube to liven up the Vali 2. Go to The Tube Store and buy their 6H23n-EB with the triodes matched.  or just get their 6H23P with matched triodes. The Vali 2 uses one triode of the tube per channel which is why you need balanced triodes.


 
 I have that tube, my personal opinion is that the Gold lion tube is better (and as a bonus it's also cheaper)


----------



## teb1013

Just took the jump to a Vali 2 amp with my Sennheiser HD600s after a couple of years running on Aune T1 internal amp. Now I'm just using the Aune as a DAC. I'm using a Siemens e88cc that I had. So far the improvement on the amp seems great over the onboard. I've been using the low setting and turning it up a bit, rather than the hi setting. Is there a preference? I haven't waded through this entire folder yet but the tube doesn't light up much, I'd assumed that it would be a bit brighter than the tube on the Aune which is just a buffer.


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

teb1013 said:


> Just took the jump to a Vali 2 amp with my Sennheiser HD600s after a couple of years running on Aune T1 internal amp. Now I'm just using the Aune as a DAC. I'm using a Siemens e88cc that I had. So far the improvement on the amp seems great over the onboard. I've been using the low setting and turning it up a bit, rather than the hi setting. Is there a preference? I haven't waded through this entire folder yet but the tube doesn't light up much, I'd assumed that it would be a bit brighter than the tube on the Aune which is just a buffer.


 
  
 I use the gold lion tube as well, as others have mentioned. I highly recommend it, I know it is $45... so it is hard pill to swallow, if not that tube, then I recommend Amperex or Electro Harmonix 6922 tubes.


----------



## Grado Diesel

Just got my HIFIMAN HE-400i's in the mail today. What a pairing with the Vali 2 Genalex Gold Lion and FIIO X3II.


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

grado diesel said:


> Just got my HIFIMAN HE-400i's in the mail today. What a pairing with the Vali 2 Genalex Gold Lion and FIIO X3II.


 
  
 Niceyea? Make sure you use high gain those cans need some juice


----------



## Grado Diesel

caenlenfromocn said:


> Niceyea? Make sure you use high gain those cans need some juice




Oh yeah definitely. Had to turn the FIIO's line out up to 0db setting as well. But man are those highs like butter. No more roterrooter to eardrums with these bad boys.


----------



## Skarecrow77

caenlenfromocn said:


> Niceyea? Make sure you use high gain those cans need some juice


 
  
 I concur. Got a pair of HE-400i for the wife for her birthday. Her magni powers it just fine, but I needed high gain on my vali 2 to be happy with them. Surprised me, I didn't think they were that hungry. The only cans previously that needed high gain on my vali2 were my HD-650s and 600ohm DT-880, which are both notoriously power-needy.
  
 I wondered if it was a planar magnetic thing, but the Vali 2 is driving the hell out of my Oppo PM-3s at just past 12-o'clock on low gain. *shrug* no idea.


----------



## tamleo

skarecrow77 said:


> I concur. Got a pair of HE-400i for the wife for her birthday. Her magni powers it just fine, but I needed high gain on my vali 2 to be happy with them. Surprised me, I didn't think they were that hungry. The only cans previously that needed high gain on my vali2 were my HD-650s and 600ohm DT-880, which are both notoriously power-needy.
> 
> I wondered if it was a planar magnetic thing, but the Vali 2 is driving the hell out of my Oppo PM-3s at just past 12-o'clock on low gain. *shrug* no idea.


 
 Hi,
 DO you mean the vali 2 driving the he400i better than the magni? I am really doubt that cause the magni is more powerful than the vali 2 when driving low ohm headphones


----------



## teb1013

sarang-i said:


> I looking at this nowadays.
> 
> Could it be worked well with hd6xx that i bought recently released in massdrop?
> and can it be used with iems as well?




In a belated answer to this post, I assume that the HD6XX is similar to the HD600. I have the 600 and my new Vali2 works excellently with it. I was running the 600 with the internal Amp of the Aune T1 hybrid DAC/Amp, the sound was very good, but the Vali2 seems miles better with the HD600 than the T1 Amp (I still use the DAC).


----------



## RickB

teb1013 said:


> In a belated answer to this post, I assume that the HD6XX is similar to the HD600. I have the 600 and my new Vali2 works excellently with it. I was running the 600 with the internal Amp of the Aune T1 hybrid DAC/Amp, the sound was very good, but the Vali2 seems miles better with the HD600 than the T1 Amp (I still use the DAC).


 
 The HD6XX is said to be an HD650 (which admittedly shares a house sound with HD600).


----------



## Skarecrow77

The 580/600/650 series has been reccomended to be matched with a tube amp for pretty much their entire lifespan. Now, I don't know if a hybrid like the Vali2 counts, but my HD650s do sound better with my Vali 2 than my old solid state.
  
 That said, I'm talking about a sample size here of 1 SS amp and 1 hybrid tube amp, so take it with a grain of salt. All I can say for sure is HD600/650/6xx sounds good with vali 2.


----------



## teb1013

skarecrow77 said:


> The 580/600/650 series has been reccomended to be matched with a tube amp for pretty much their entire lifespan. Now, I don't know if a hybrid like the Vali2 counts, but my HD650s do sound better with my Vali 2 than my old solid state.
> 
> That said, I'm talking about a sample size here of 1 SS amp and 1 hybrid tube amp, so take it with a grain of salt. All I can say for sure is HD600/650/6xx sounds good with vali 2.





Sample of two, it sounds great with the HD600. Up until I got mine last week, I listened with the Aune T1 DAC/Amp which has the strange distinction of having a tube buffered DAC and a SS amp. It sounded good but I had heard that the amp was considered inferior. Having no experience, I couldn't compare. When I got my Vali2, I continued to use the Aune tube buffered DAC connected with the Vali 2 (to which I added a Siemens e88cc tube). With the same source, same DAC, same headphones but with Vali 2, I noticed an immediate improvement in clarity, depth and detail. The Aune onboard amp now sounded a bit muddy. Since then I have been re listening to many familiar pieces and any novelty effect has worn off, but the Vali still sounds superior in every way. The HD 6.. series definitely benefits from this amp. Of course the choice of a tube is important and I knew from having used the Siemens on the Aune that it is a very good tube (i use an Amperex 7308 on the Aune, which is, to me, unbeatable).


----------



## Skarecrow77

teb1013 said:


> The HD 6.. series definitely benefits from this amp. Of course the choice of a tube is important and I knew from having used the Siemens on the Aune that it is a very good tube (i use an Amperex 7308 on the Aune, which is, to me, unbeatable).


 
  
 I concur. Tube selection can be surprising. Interestingly, the 1974 Phillips PCC88 that works so well on all my closed headphones is outshone on my HD650s by my 1957 (I believe) "pinched waist" Miniwatt PCC88. The miniwatt is a bit less present in the mids than the phillips, and the soundstage isn't as wide, but it's got better clarity.

 Side note, I think it's kinda interesting that the pinched waist is such a highly sought after tube, and I like the comparatively mundane yugoslavian '74 phillips for more cans.

 I need to try the minwatt with my wife's He-400i to see which tube I prefer with them. maybe it's an "open" vs "closed" thing.


----------



## teb1013

One question, I have looked at pictures of other people's Vali2s and it looks like they have an LED that illuminates the tube itself, like the Aune T1 does. With mine, the front light comes on which provides a little light through the holes in the top of the unit, but there doesn't seem to be a dedicated tube light. Not that I care particularly, I find the tube light on my Aune T1 distracting and actually painted it red, but the e88cc I'm using with the Vali2 doesn't light up at all, except two tiny dots of red light. I had expected that, seeing that the tube isn't just a buffer on the Schiit it would light up somewhat more. Meanwhile I've been using this for 12 days now and I couldn't be happier with the sound, really brings out details tha the Aune amp doesn't.


----------



## tdonnellyem

My vali2 doesn't have a led to light up the tube. I do have bleed-thru of the front mounted led through the vent holes on top. The stock tube on mine also doesn't light up that much but it sounds very good. Figure the "hotter" a tube glows the shorter its lifespan so your tube should last quite a while. Helps when you leave it on all night after falling asleep with your cans on


----------



## pieman3141

Nope, there's no LED that lights up the tube in the Vali 2. The Lyr 2 or Valhalla 2 (can't remember which) has LEDs in the socket.


----------



## bigro

I think the Original Vali had the led inside but I believe they were actually used as part of the circuit not just for looks, My Magni 2 U has one that I can see as well.


----------



## RickB

Schiit uses LEDs for biasing, not any cosmetic purpose.


----------



## teb1013

rickb said:


> Schiit uses LEDs for biasing, not any cosmetic purpose.




Thanks for clearing that up, I know that others do so for cosmetic purposes (e.g. My Aune T1) I had just wondered whether I had a burned out LED under the tube, clearly not.


----------



## ElMariachi

Has anyone ever had a chance to compare the vali 2 to the alo pan am? I know the pan am is discontinued but a comparison between the two has always struck my curiosity.


----------



## Jacobh

I have a MF X-Can V2 that I had put in storage for various reasons.  I'm going to be pulling it back out and I was thinking of getting an upgrade kit for it (~$80 right now based on exchange rates).  I'm also interested in the Vali 2.
  
 Anyone have an idea how the X-Can sounds in comparison to the Vali 2?  I'd primarily be listening with a pair of  HD580 and Grado 325 (hence the hybrid tube amps).


----------



## iqofafish

Well I've had my v2 for around a month & am so impressed. Been & bought a couple of tubes. Subtle differences. Just need to upgrade the weak link in my system. The DAC. Modi multibit, I hear thy call & will liberate thee from the tyranny of the stock pile.


----------



## Tuneslover

I just discovered my old Clairtone transistor radio that I bought in the late 60's. At only 2" high, 1.5" wide, 0.5" thick it was spy worthy back then and still pretty small by today's standards.


----------



## thesebastian

Naive question:
  
 If you turn off the Vali 2, will the RCA input and RCA output still work? (Transfer audio from DAC to active monitors)
  
 I have a "Modi Multibit" DAC and a pair of active monitors.
 I'm receiving a pair of AKG K701 headphones next week (for 120€ I think it is a good deal), and this is one of the "amps" I'm considering (200€ is the price in Europe)...But since it's a tube amp, and I'll only use it with the headphones, maybe I can turn it off and still use the DAC with my monitors....
  
 Thanks!


----------



## RickB

thesebastian said:


> Naive question:
> 
> If you turn off the Vali 2, will the RCA input and RCA output still work? (Transfer audio from DAC to active monitors)
> 
> ...


 
 No, there will be no sound with the amp off.


----------



## claud W

Maxed out Schiit Stack. Wywires Platinum USB cable and Silver ICs, Siemens 6922 CCa


----------



## thesebastian

rickb said:


> No, there will be no sound with the amp off.


 
  
 Thanks Rick!
  
 At first I thought that was a bad thing (because I'd had to power on the Vali 2 "just for using the Monitors"). But then researching more, I've learned that the preamp output is also benefited by the tubes, i'm novice at all this.... ( I don't know what kind of improvement could I get in the Monitors mixing the ModiMultibit and the Vali 2 preamp.....but if we're talking about coloring more the sound, then it should be good to me! ). 
  
 Anyway...I'm still deciding between the cheaper "Fulla 2" (bypassing fulla DAC) and the more expensive "Vali 2" to connect to both the monitors and my new headphones (akg k701) using the Modi Multibit I have at the moment.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Hi all - first post here in awhile. The upgrade bug got me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have a pair of HiFiMan HE-400's powered and DAC'ed with a Dragonfly original. I wanted to get a headphone amp for them as the Dragonfly's amp section leaves a bit to be desired and I have been spending a lot of time away from my main speaker system. I was looking at the Vali 2 and the Asgard 2. Does anyone have experience on the HE-400's (not the 400S or 400i) with Vali 2 and the Asgard 2? I just want to know if the price difference is justified at all. Looks like everyone here loves the Vali 2 but I haven't seen a lot of comparisons on the Asgard 2 vs Vali 2. I listen to classical, folk, classic rock, [real] country, etc. Basically anything but hard rock or metal. I am very sensitive to brightness and don't want to increase that on the 400's.


----------



## Xpl0sion

Hoping I can get an answer in this thread: I'm currently using the original Vali with the HD650.  Should I look into getting a Vali 2 or a Valhalla 2 for the HD650?  I only listen to the HD650s with my desktop setup.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## RickB

xpl0sion said:


> Hoping I can get an answer in this thread: I'm currently using the original Vali with the HD650.  Should I look into getting a Vali 2 or a Valhalla 2 for the HD650?  I only listen to the HD650s with my desktop setup.
> 
> Thanks.




Do you want a more mellow or aggressive sound? The Vali 2 is more laid-back and the Valhalla 2 has a sharper sound. It is technically superior and more detailed. Personally I prefer the Vali, as I prefer mellow.

Edit: also something to consider if you live in a hot climate: the Valhalla puts out a good amount of heat from the four tubes. The Vali I don't really notice, even in S. Florida.


----------



## Xpl0sion

rickb said:


> Do you want a more mellow or aggressive sound? The Vali 2 is more laid-back and the Valhalla 2 has a sharper sound. It is technically superior and more detailed. Personally I prefer the Vali, as I prefer mellow.
> 
> Edit: also something to consider if you live in a hot climate: the Valhalla puts out a good amount of heat from the four tubes. The Vali I don't really notice, even in S. Florida.


 
  
 Thanks for your reply.  I guess I am looking for something more aggressive than my Vali 1.  Can you give an example, maybe with certain types of music, where I'd hear the major difference btwn the two amps?  I primarily listen to classic rock, jazz, classical, and deep house music.
  
 Also, would I see an improvement in the sound stage btwn the two amps?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## RickB

xpl0sion said:


> Thanks for your reply.  I guess I am looking for something more aggressive than my Vali 1.  Can you give an example, maybe with certain types of music, where I'd hear the major difference btwn the two amps?  I primarily listen to classic rock, jazz, classical, and deep house music.
> 
> Also, would I see an improvement in the sound stage btwn the two amps?
> 
> Thanks.


 
 I listen to mainly rock, but the difference between the amps would be noticeable with anything. An OTL amp has a distinct sound that a hybrid doesn't. It's kind of hard for me to put into the words the difference, though. 
  
 I don't really the remember the soundstage differences (I sold the Valhalla a number of months ago.), but I would be inclined to state the Valhalla is better, a little wider left to right. 
  
 I will say that overall the Valhalla 2 is the better amp, if you like an aggressive sound (for a tube amp).


----------



## Hofy

I have a question for those who have the Vali 2 and Hifiman HE400i. 
What position do you find the volume control in for gooder sound levels? I currently have the Fulla2 and find it have to have it up to 2 o'clock to get proper sound levels. I feel this is leaving very little headroom for peaks as I am hearing distortion at points.


----------



## thesebastian

hofy said:


> I have a question for those who have the Vali 2 and Hifiman HE400i.
> What position do you find the volume control in for gooder sound levels? I currently have the Fulla2 and find it have to have it up to 2 o'clock to get proper sound levels. I feel this is leaving very little headroom for peaks as I am hearing distortion at points.


 

 I think you will gain much more volume upgrading to any other Schiit amp (starting from the 99$ Magni 2). I don't know if you can use the Vali 2 in high gain mode because of the headphones impedance (32 ohms) and in low gain mode you'll probably have less volume. 
  
 If you just need more volume, I'd go for the Magni 2. If you need more quality, I'd go for a more expensive (than the Magni 2) option. 
  
 Someone correct me if I'm wrong (Junior Head-FI'ER here)


----------



## HOWIE13

hofy said:


> I have a question for those who have the Vali 2 and Hifiman HE400i.
> What position do you find the volume control in for gooder sound levels? I currently have the Fulla2 and find it have to have it up to 2 o'clock to get proper sound levels. I feel this is leaving very little headroom for peaks as I am hearing distortion at points.


 
 I have an HE400 and Vali2 at 11o'clock is as loud as I could wish for using high gain, with an ECC88 tube and Mimby DAC source, out-putting 2Vrms.max. Sounds good too, with no audible distortion.


----------



## rgmffn

hofy said:


> I have a question for those who have the Vali 2 and Hifiman HE400i.
> What position do you find the volume control in for gooder sound levels? I currently have the Fulla2 and find it have to have it up to 2 o'clock to get proper sound levels. I feel this is leaving very little headroom for peaks as I am hearing distortion at points.


 

 I run my Vali 2 and 400i's in low gain mode. The low setting sounds better to me.  Something just over 12 o'clock is sufficient for most things. The Vali 2 has ample power for the 400i's.


----------



## Tuneslover

thesebastian said:


> I think you will gain much more volume upgrading to any other Schiit amp (starting from the 99$ Magni 2). I don't know if you can use the Vali 2 in high gain mode because of the headphones impedance (32 ohms) and in low gain mode you'll probably have less volume.
> 
> If you just need more volume, I'd go for the Magni 2. If you need more quality, I'd go for a more expensive (than the Magni 2) option.
> 
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong (Junior Head-FI'ER here)




I didn't really notice too much difference power wise between the Magni2U and the Vali 2.


----------



## Hofy

Well I have RA'd the Fulla2 and ordered a Vali2.  I will have to run without a dac for a bit but plan to pick up a Mimby once they have my return credited to me.


----------



## HOWIE13

tuneslover said:


> I didn't really notice too much difference power wise between the Magni2U and the Vali 2.


 
 In keeping with that, the power output of the two amps at around 35ohms is almost identical too.


----------



## HOWIE13

hofy said:


> Well I have RA'd the Fulla2 and ordered a Vali2.  I will have to run without a dac for a bit but plan to pick up a Mimby once they have my return credited to me.


 
 Good decision. Mimby synergises really well with Vali2.


----------



## tamleo

Why is there so few comment on Vali 2 paired with the LCD-2? Were they not born for each other?


----------



## mammal

I have mine on its way, have been using LCD-2 with Grace M9XX and Chord Mojo (prefer Grace actually). Will pair Vali 2 with Mimby and try 5 different tubes.


----------



## mks100

Apologies in advance if this question is redundant.  I previously owned the Vali 2 and purchased an Electro-Harmonix 6922 EH Tube to "Roll" with the Vali 2.  Unfortunately, I could never get the EH to sit right with the Vali 2 and was very hesitant to apply too much pressure in fear of breaking the pins (despite several owners using the EH with the Vali 2).  I am considering purchasing the Vali 2 again and would really like to Tube Roll safely.  Would a Socket Saver help?  If so, which one would you recommend?  Thanks in advance.


----------



## teb1013

6922 tubes should fit into the Vali 2, they are members of the E88CC family as are the 7308s. It takes a little force to put them in, but no more than it does with the Aune T1 which takes the same tubes and I use as a DAC. I don't know that a socket saver would make it any easier, unless you intend to do a lot of tube rolling.


----------



## RickB

Question: if you're going to be listening to a tube amp all day, but may be taking 1 or 2 hour breaks a couple of times, what makes more sense, turning the amp off for the breaks, or leaving it on all day? Leaving it on all day uses up tube life, but turning the amp on/off multiple times also stresses the tube. So which one is better?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## HOWIE13

mks100 said:


> Apologies in advance if this question is redundant.  I previously owned the Vali 2 and purchased an Electro-Harmonix 6922 EH Tube to "Roll" with the Vali 2.  Unfortunately, I could never get the EH to sit right with the Vali 2 and was very hesitant to apply too much pressure in fear of breaking the pins (despite several owners using the EH with the Vali 2).  I am considering purchasing the Vali 2 again and would really like to Tube Roll safely.  Would a Socket Saver help?  If so, which one would you recommend?  Thanks in advance.


 
  
 If the problem was only with one particular tube then if you can't return the tube for a replacement you would need to buy another if that's the tube you like. I have several EH6922 tubes and they fit fine.
  
 What sometimes happens though is the pins are not always symetrically positioned in the tube and you may need to bend one or two to get it to insert. Once inserted the tube doesn't have to be pushed in right up to the hilt-as long as it's secure and the sound is good. Some tubes' pins are longer than necessary and don't go the whole way into the socket anyway.


----------



## DomieMic65

Guys I have started reading the thread but I want to ask..
Does anyone use, or listened the Vali 2 with the Audeze Sine? 
I compared to the Magni 2 Uber and Asgard any comments?
I just got the Sines. I also have the HD600 and I am trying to find the best match for both..


----------



## Hofy

My Vali 2 arrived today.  Even fresh out of the box with a new stock tube it has what I need for power.  A hair over 12 in low gain and about 10 or 11 in high gain.  Using a Chromecast Audio for source until I get a Mimby.
  
 First order of business was to install a useful volume knob.


----------



## DomieMic65

well... after reading a big part of this thread along with some other threads in other forums,I ordered a Vali 2 and I am wating for it in a few days (I hope)
 it will pair with my HD600, Audeze Sine and HD25Aluminum...


----------



## teb1013

domiemic65 said:


> well... after reading a big part of this thread along with some other threads in other forums,I ordered a Vali 2 and I am wating for it in a few days (I hope)
> it will pair with my HD600, Audeze Sine and HD25Aluminum...




I only have experience with the HD600 out of the ones you mention, the Vali2 is excellent with those. What DAC are you using?


----------



## DomieMic65

teb1013 said:


> I only have experience with the HD600 out of the ones you mention, the Vali2 is excellent with those. What DAC are you using?


 
 I use the one mentioned on my sig.. the iFi iDSD Micro.
  
 The 600 and the synergy with the Vali (from what I read) is a very important reason why I chose it..


----------



## Faber65

hofy said:


> My Vali 2 arrived today.  Even fresh out of the box with a new stock tube it has what I need for power.  A hair over 12 in low gain and about 10 or 11 in high gain.  Using a Chromecast Audio for source until I get a Mimby.
> 
> First order of business was to install a useful volume knob.




Planning to do the same here.
Just my smaller key is too big and I have to buy one


----------



## Hofy

You will need a .050"
  
 Quote:


faber65 said:


> Planning to do the same here.
> Just my key is too small and I have to buy one


----------



## Faber65

hofy said:


> faber65 said:
> 
> 
> > Planning to do the same here.
> ...




Thanks for the direction. 
I suspected that it was imperial and not metric. 
That's why mine did not work.


----------



## Baldr

faber65 said:


> Thanks for the direction.
> I suspected that it was imperial and not metric.
> That's why mine did not work.




Made in the US, hence imperial.


----------



## Oskari

baldr said:


> Made in the US, hence imperial.




It would be about time to add something here:




> Size: 5 x 3.5 x 2.75”
> Weight: 1 lb


----------



## tamleo

domiemic65 said:


> Guys I have started reading the thread but I want to ask..
> Does anyone use, or listened the Vali 2 with the Audeze Sine?
> I compared to the Magni 2 Uber and Asgard any comments?
> I just got the Sines. I also have the HD600 and I am trying to find the best match for both..


 
 I don't have the Sine but the LCd-2.
 Tomorrow I will compare the vali2 to the Asgard2 and Magni2u and I will let you know


----------



## Faber65

baldr said:


> faber65 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the direction.
> ...




Yes, and i still have headache for the original drawings of the combine that we used as a baseline to design the machine that now we produce in China for the local market. 
Stack of tolerances between metric and imperial parts.
Now we have an hybrid that sometimes create troubles for our product support guys, but at least from the engineering and manufacturing standpoint we are fine.
Anyhow, next Saturday I will go to buy the right Allen key....

And looking forward to receiving the Mimby


----------



## DomieMic65

tamleo said:


> I don't have the Sine but the LCd-2.
> Tomorrow I will compare the vali2 to the Asgard2 and Magni2u and I will let you know


 
 lcd2 is one of my favorite cans..
 please do..


----------



## gidgiddonihah

I have been powering my HE400's with my Dragonfly for a few years now. Boy what I have been missing. Current rig: Surface Pro 4 -> Foobar2000 -> WASAPI -> Dragonfly 1.0 -> Schiit Vali 2 -> HE400. Without the Vali, deep and/or heavy bass would tend to distort and complicated passages would sometimes sound flat and congested. No issues whatsoever now. What an upgrade! I am currently just trying the stock tubes and some of the HE400 fatigue I sometimes experienced seems to have been alleviated. I have about 7 more to try that came with my Head-Fi purchase!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










  
  
 Did a quickie modification on Day 1 due to me being OCD.


----------



## Faber65

baldr said:


> faber65 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the direction.
> ...




I admit that the original one is way more stylish. Somehow I destroyed the nice appearance of the original Vali, but this knob is somehow more functional.


----------



## DomieMic65

Just received...


----------



## califmike33

domiemic65 said:


> Just received...




So I'm using my AKG 712 Pros with the Vali 2 Amp. I'm feeding it through my Android phone into the RCA jacks in the back. I'm on High Gain full volume and I can still listen to it is the amp underpowered for my headphones or is it because of my Android device it just doesn't have enough power?

I'm liking the sound of this amp but I'm finding that my headphones are very very power-hungry the more I turn up the volume the better they actually sound but I've ran out of volume so I'm trying to find out I'm kind of new to this stuff and trying to find out do I need a more powerful amp or do I need a more powerful source for my music.


----------



## MtnMan307

It has to be your source.  I'm listening to the K7XX with Vali 2 at high gain and volume at 7-8 o'clock, so far from even halfway on the knob. This is straight out of my computer's sound card with iTunes.
  
 I've never ran the Vali 2 out of my phone though.


----------



## califmike33

mtnman307 said:


> It has to be your source.  I'm listening to the K7XX with Vali 2 at high gain and volume at 7-8 o'clock, so far from even halfway on the knob. This is straight out of my computer's sound card with iTunes.
> 
> I've never ran the Vali 2 out of my phone though.


----------



## califmike33

. Going to try another source tomorrow and see what happens I should not have to be on High gain at 3 or 4 o'clock to get them to drive my headphones.


----------



## west0ne

@califmike33 - I'm pretty sure the Vali 2 has enough power for the K712, I think the issue you have is that your Android device headphone port isn't really designed as a line-out so isn't giving the amp enough voltage.


----------



## tgx78

califmike33 said:


> So I'm using my AKG 712 Pros with the Vali 2 Amp. I'm feeding it through my Android phone into the RCA jacks in the back. I'm on High Gain full volume and I can still listen to it is the amp underpowered for my headphones or is it because of my Android device it just doesn't have enough power?
> 
> I'm liking the sound of this amp but I'm finding that my headphones are very very power-hungry the more I turn up the volume the better they actually sound but I've ran out of volume so I'm trying to find out I'm kind of new to this stuff and trying to find out do I need a more powerful amp or do I need a more powerful source for my music.


 
  
 a Solution: https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/cable-plus-a2r/


----------



## califmike33

tgx78 said:


> a Solution: https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/cable-plus-a2r/




So I hooked up my friends iPhone 6 Plus to compare to my phone and the volume level was incredibly louder I could not turn it up all the way or would have blown my head off so it is my phone is the problem.


----------



## DomieMic65

Guys do you know if its possible to convert the pre out of the Vali to line out?
 I know that it will void guarantee but I am just asking..


----------



## Faber65

tgx78 said:


> califmike33 said:
> 
> 
> > So I'm using my AKG 712 Pros with the Vali 2 Amp. I'm feeding it through my Android phone into the RCA jacks in the back. I'm on High Gain full volume and I can still listen to it is the amp underpowered for my headphones or is it because of my Android device it just doesn't have enough power?
> ...


----------



## jleewachter

domiemic65 said:


> Guys do you know if its possible to convert the pre out of the Vali to line out?
> I know that it will void guarantee but I am just asking..


 

 This is probably an incredibly stupid and naive question; but what is the difference?
  
 Also, I just wanna say that I'm jumping from team little dot to team schiit w/ the Vali 2. I love the LD; just time for something different. Wish me luck!


----------



## Faber65

jleewachter said:


> domiemic65 said:
> 
> 
> > Guys do you know if its possible to convert the pre out of the Vali to line out?
> ...




Line out has a fixed voltage. 
Exactly like the line out of a source (CD player or DAC). 
It can be useful if after the Vali you want to connect a normal integrated amplifier or a different pre.
I think that with some skill it may be possible to change it. 
But maybe the easiest way is to split the source before the Vali input RCA.


----------



## jleewachter

faber65 said:


> Line out has a fixed voltage.
> Exactly like the line out of a source (CD player or DAC).
> It can be useful if after the Vali you want to connect a normal integrated amplifier or a different pre.
> I think that with some skill it may be possible to change it.
> But maybe the easiest way is to split the source before the Vali input RCA.


 

 So, (again, stupid question on my part,) does the preamp component of the Vali 2 to feed something like powered monitors provide any of the sonic characteristics of the tube itself to said monitors/speakers, or is it simply a passthrough for feeding your dac source to your monitors/speakers?


----------



## AviP

jleewachter said:


> So, (again, stupid question on my part,) does the preamp component of the Vali 2 to feed something like powered monitors provide any of the sonic characteristics of the tube itself to said monitors/speakers, or is it simply a passthrough for feeding your dac source to your monitors/speakers?



It adds tube flavor to the pre-outs


----------



## trivium911

Hi guys im looking for a tube hybrid amp for my hifiman 400i's. I've heard that the Vali 2 is a decent choice, im torn between this and the Millet Hybrid DIY project. The vali is probably going to be cheaper, but which one will sound better? I know the millet hybrid has two tubes but knowing nothing about tube amps im not sure if that even makes a difference. What is even more frustrating the DIY projects are really not much cheaper by the time you buy solder and pay shipping to canada rather than just buying one that is assembled. Alternatively i was looking at the starlight or sunrise III aswell. BTW im coming from an O2 and looking for something to supplement it.I did not build the O2..again due to the cost of shipping to Canada and the solder and all that to save $20 buying it pre-built. 
  
  
 Edit: Just found the Little Dot I+, does anyone know how the vali 2 compares?


----------



## jleewachter

Just got the Vali 2 unboxed, and while it looks & feels like a great little amp, I'm honestly a little scared to insert the tube into the socket. Are these things normally so difficult to get seated into the tube socket? This certainly isn't my first tube amp, but the fit is so freaking tight, I'm afraid I'm going to end up breaking the socket from putting too much force in trying to get the tube seated. It already seems like the socket itself is somewhat loose as it's wiggling around on the circuit-board when I try inserting them.
  
 Is it normal for these things to fit so tightly?


----------



## teb1013

jleewachter said:


> Just got the Vali 2 unboxed, and while it looks & feels like a great little amp, I'm honestly a little scared to insert the tube into the socket. Are these things normally so difficult to get seated into the tube socket? This certainly isn't my first tube amp, but the fit is so freaking tight, I'm afraid I'm going to end up breaking the socket from putting too much force in trying to get the tube seated. It already seems like the socket itself is somewhat loose as it's wiggling around on the circuit-board when I try inserting them.
> 
> Is it normal for these things to fit so tightly?




They do seat firmly. Press straight down, don't rotate and you should be OK. Just push a little bit at a time.


----------



## HOWIE13

jleewachter said:


> Just got the Vali 2 unboxed, and while it looks & feels like a great little amp, I'm honestly a little scared to insert the tube into the socket. Are these things normally so difficult to get seated into the tube socket? This certainly isn't my first tube amp, but the fit is so freaking tight, I'm afraid I'm going to end up breaking the socket from putting too much force in trying to get the tube seated. It already seems like the socket itself is somewhat loose as it's wiggling around on the circuit-board when I try inserting them.
> 
> Is it normal for these things to fit so tightly?


 
 They get easier to insert over time but I would be more concerned that your socket is wiggling around. 
 I would be sending it back for a replacement. The socket should be solidly fixed in place.


----------



## winders

Okay. I am new to this whole high fidelity computer audio world. In the past I have relied on my Mac's DAC and used a variety of under $200 IEM's with 256 kbps AAC sources . But I wanted to get back into higher fidelity content and get some quality headphones.
  
 Today I decided to dive in and I ordered a Schiit stack comprising a Modi 2 Multibit and a Vali 2. I needed the preamp outputs to drive powered monitors and the Vali 2 was only $20 more than the Magni 2 Uber.  So I figured, what the heck.
  
 Now, what headphones work well with this combination? I listen to classic rock and classical music mostly. But I also like Jazz, R&B, and pop. I don't like hip hop or rap. My budget is flexible depending on value. I don't like to save money only to be disappointed and have to buy something better later. So let's say the budget is $500 but I would happy to spend less if the value is there. What would be a good choice to start with that I won't want to replace right away?
  
 Thanks!!
  
 Edit: For example, on Massdrop, they have the AKG K7XX for $200. Is that a good choice for the Vali 2?


----------



## RickB

winders said:


> Okay. I am new to this whole high fidelity computer audio world. In the past I have relied on my Mac's DAC and used a variety of under $200 IEM's with 256 kbps AAC sources . But I wanted to get back into higher fidelity content and get some quality headphones.
> 
> Today I decided to dive in and I ordered a Schiit stack comprising a Modi 2 Multibit and a Vali 2. I needed the preamp outputs to drive powered monitors and the Vali 2 was only $20 more than the Magni 2 Uber.  So I figured, what the heck.
> 
> ...


 
 My recommendation would be the HD600 or HD650 when you can catch them frequently on sale.


----------



## teb1013

winders said:


> Okay. I am new to this whole high fidelity computer audio world. In the past I have relied on my Mac's DAC and used a variety of under $200 IEM's with 256 kbps AAC sources . But I wanted to get back into higher fidelity content and get some quality headphones.
> 
> Today I decided to dive in and I ordered a Schiit stack comprising a Modi 2 Multibit and a Vali 2. I needed the preamp outputs to drive powered monitors and the Vali 2 was only $20 more than the Magni 2 Uber.  So I figured, what the heck.
> 
> ...




As RickB says the HD600 or 650 are marvelous with this. I use the 600 and it pares marvelously with the Vali 2. Massdrop recently had the HD6xx on sale which was, I understand similar in sound signature to the 650 but considerably cheaper. They aren't on MD now, but you can ask to be notified when they return.


----------



## DomieMic65

+1 for Vali 2 with the 600
A great match!


----------



## winders

rickb said:


> My recommendation would be the HD600 or HD650 when you can catch them frequently on sale.


 
  
  


teb1013 said:


> As RickB says the HD600 or 650 are marvelous with this. I use the 600 and it pares marvelously with the Vali 2. Massdrop recently had the HD6xx on sale which was, I understand similar in sound signature to the 650 but considerably cheaper. They aren't on MD now, but you can ask to be notified when they return.


 
  
  


domiemic65 said:


> +1 for Vali 2 with the 600
> A great match!


 

 Awesome. HD650 or HD6xx it is! I like it when there is a consensus. Now I just have to figure out what tube to get to replace the one that ships with the Vali 2.


----------



## Hofy

winders said:


> Awesome. HD650 or HD6xx it is! I like it when there is a consensus. Now I just have to figure out what tube to get to replace the one that ships with the Vali 2.


 
  
 Start out with the Electro Harmonix 6922 for less than $20.


----------



## winders

hofy said:


> Start out with the Electro Harmonix 6922 for less than $20.


 

 The Electro-Harmonix 6922EH our the Electro-Harmonix 6922 Gold? I read the JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold was better yet.


----------



## Hofy

The regular EH6922 is under $20, the gold pin will be $25-30.


----------



## Letmebefrank

I agree. I used vali 2, modi multibit and hd650 for a while before buying the Jotunheim. Vali 2 is a fantastic amp.


----------



## DomieMic65

winders said:


> Awesome. HD650 or HD6xx it is! I like it when there is a consensus. Now I just have to figure out what tube to get to replace the one that ships with the Vali 2.



Do not rush... Get the amp and the cans, live with the set up for a while, "learn" it's sound and see what you may or may not like and then start thinking about tube rolling.
The stock tube is very nice too with the 6X0.
At least that's my point of view!
OK I am also reading and thinking what will be my next tube but one step at a time..


----------



## winders

How is the pre-amp out performance of the Vali 2? How much do the tube choices color the sound at the speaker?
  
 I saw a review of the Vali 2 on youtube and the review pretty much trashed the pre-amp performance. I don't put a lot of weight into random youtube reviews. But, I plan on listening to my speakers quite a bit so I want the best sound I can get.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## DomieMic65

Do not expect the most of a headamp at this price that happens to have a pre out!
I would appreciate it very much if it was just a line out!

Sent from my Nexus 5X


----------



## winders

While I appreciate the response, DomieMic65, it doesn't really tell me anything one way or the other. What can I expect? How much will the tube choice affect the what is passed on to the speaker amps?
  
 I actually like the output being a pre-out since I want to use it to control the volume of my monitor speakers as well as the headphones (yes, I know that plugging in the headphones disables the pre-out). 
  
 Also, I don't know about the electronics of the Vali 2, but I would think the same pre-out signal that is passed to the headphone amp is passed out the RCA pre-outs. Shouldn't that signal be as good as the one the headphone amp gets?


----------



## Hofy

winders said:


> While I appreciate the response, DomieMic65, it doesn't really tell me anything one way or the other. What can I expect? How much will the tube choice affect the what is passed on to the speaker amps?
> 
> I actually like the output being a pre-out since I want to use it to control the volume of my monitor speakers as well as the headphones (yes, I know that plugging in the headphones disables the pre-out).
> 
> Also, I don't know about the electronics of the Vali 2, but I would think the same pre-out signal that is passed to the headphone amp is passed out the RCA pre-outs. Shouldn't that signal be as good as the one the headphone amp gets?


 
  
 Yes the Vali 2 passes out a preamp signal to the amp/speakers.  The tube does play a role in the sound.  However, the pre-out is not the best preamp.  It gets the job done but is not for critical listening.


----------



## winders

hofy said:


> Yes the Vali 2 passes out a preamp signal to the amp/speakers.  The tube does play a role in the sound.  However, the pre-out is not the best preamp.  It gets the job done but is not for critical listening.


 

 Thanks! Is it better than what I would get using the 2016 MacBook Pro headphone port feeding my speakers directly? I was hoping to get the benefit of the Mimby while having volume control using the Vali 2.


----------



## DomieMic65

winders said:


> hofy said:
> 
> 
> > Yes the Vali 2 passes out a preamp signal to the amp/speakers.  The tube does play a role in the sound.  However, the pre-out is not the best preamp.  It gets the job done but is not for critical listening.
> ...



In theory it would be much better...
And much more convenient so go for it...

Sent from my Nexus 5X


----------



## winders

I just received, unpacked, setup, and for a while listened to music using my Vali 2 and Modi Multibit.
  
*OH MY GOD!!!*
  
 I needn't have worried about the quality of signal coming from the pre-outs. I don't have my headphones (HD650) yet so I am listening to my music through my Swan MK200MKIII monitors. The speakers are new too and have may 20 hours on them. Heck, I didn't even wait for the Vali 2 to warmup. 
  
 Forgive my lack of familiarity with the terminology. Compared to using the headphone port on my 2016 MacBook Pro to drive the speakers, the first thing I noticed was the increase in the height, depth, and width of the soundstage. I went from being at the back of the room to being in the front row or maybe even being on stage.  The separation of the individual instruments and voices was much more pronounced. In fact, I don't think I have ever heard it that clearly before. Then the clarity of the sounds jumped out at me. The timbre of the drums and cymbals jumped out right away. Wow! Just wow!!! I am not afraid to admit that the sound brought a tear to my eyes. It was that moving!
  
 I don't know how much of this is the Mimby, but all I can say is that I love this combination! I can't wait to get my Sennheiser HD650 headphones to hear how they sound. I even have some pretty cool tubes on the way to try out after I get used to everything.


----------



## ToddRaymond

The Mimby is a damn fine DAC, and the Vali 2 is a damn fine headphone amp.  Glad they're working out for you, winders.  I recently went from using a Vali 2 to a Lyr 2, and have definitely found the Lyr 2 to work much better as a preamp.  However, the Vali 2 is much more remarkable *for the money* as a headphone amp.  In my experience, the preamp functionality of the Vali 2 isn't too bad at all, and I found it to be somewhat sensitive to tube changes (my girlfriend was able to tell as well on a quick tube comparison one day when she was home on her lunch break).


----------



## bigro

I got a curious his morning and stole one of the Russian 6N1P- EV Vokshod Rockets from My Valhalla 2. It has Dethroned the  EH 6922 in my Vali 2. Sparkly Highs, The Mids are a little more recessed  but smooth and has a more controlled Low end,  Not boomy but tighter than the EH6922. The Big plus is Sound stage is Bigger.  These tubes probably have a few hundred hours on them so they a very well burnt in. I just ordered a Few more pair , I am to cheap to find the High dollar tubes and at this point these seem to be easy to get sound great and are on the cheaper end . On Flea bay a Matched pair will run you about 25 to 30$ shipped from Eastern europe. Make sure They list the test results.


----------



## TheGame21x

I ended up caving and buying a Vali 2 recently and it finally arrived at my doorstep this evening. I've had it set up for about an hour now and music going for about 20 minutes and I'm in love. I immediately rolled in an Electro Harmonix 6922 tube I had lying around from an old Bravo V3 and this combo is fantastic with the Schiit Modi Multibit and my HD 650s. Obviously, I'm firmly entrenched in the "honeymoon phase" with the Vali 2 but I don't think my enthusiasm will soon fade, if at all. Between this and the Modi Multibit, I've been very pleased with Schiit as of late.


----------



## winders

thegame21x said:


> I ended up caving and buying a Vali 2 recently and it finally arrived at my doorstep this evening. I've had it set up for about an hour now and music going for about 20 minutes and I'm in love. I immediately rolled in an Electro Harmonix 6922 tube I had lying around from an old Bravo V3 and this combo is fantastic with the Schiit Modi Multibit and my HD 650s. Obviously, I'm firmly entrenched in the "honeymoon phase" with the Vali 2 but I don't think my enthusiasm will soon fade, if at all. Between this and the Modi Multibit, I've been very pleased with Schiit as of late.


 

 I have the same setup. Well, I will have the same setup when my HD 650's show up on Friday. I am using the Vali 2 as a pre-amp for my powered monitors. I am still using the 6BZ7 tube from Canada that came with it. Even with that tube the music sounds fantastic. I have 8 different tubes coming to play with to see what sound I like best. Great product. Great sound!


----------



## TheGame21x

Yep, I've got a Gold Lion 6922 tube on the way to compare to the stock and Electro Harmonix tubes. I hear the Vali 2 doesn't change as much as some other tube amps with tube rolling but it's an inexpensive experiment and should be fun, nonetheless. I'm really liking what I'm hearing from the Electro Harmonix tube I've got in there now, though. It's very smooth and detailed while retaining the kind of richness and warmth tubes are known for.


----------



## winders

Should I be using the high gain or low gain with my Sennheiser HD 650 headphones? Does using high gain negatively effect the quality of the signal?
  
 When using low gain, I am almost maxed on the volume control for some tracks and can easily handle full volume. With high gain, I am closer to halfway for most tracks and can handle about about 80%.


----------



## Mr Rick

winders said:


> Should I be using the high gain or low gain with my Sennheiser HD 650 headphones? Does using high gain negatively effect the quality of the signal?
> 
> When using low gain, I am almost maxed on the volume control for some tracks and can easily handle full volume. With high gain, I am closer to halfway for most tracks and handed about about 80%.


 
  
  
 Use the setting that sounds best.


----------



## winders

Let me ask my question a different way.
  
 For those of you with a Vali 2 that are using Sennheiser HD 650 headphones, what gain setting are you using?


----------



## HOWIE13

winders said:


> Let me ask my question a different way.
> 
> For those of you with a Vali 2 that are using Sennheiser HD 650 headphones, what gain setting are you using?


 
  
 I use High gain with my HD650.


----------



## iqofafish

I use low gain with my HD650. I find High too harsh, but its a personal choice. Just choose which one you like best & enjoy.


----------



## Faber65

I use the low gain.


----------



## RickB

I use low gain with my HD650. Modern rock albums are so loud that I often don't have the pot any higher than 9 o'clock.


----------



## jleewachter

rickb said:


> I use low gain with my HD650. Modern rock albums are so loud that I often don't have the pot any higher than 9 o'clock.


 
 Same here. I never go above 12 o'clock on low gain.


----------



## maheeinfy

thegame21x said:


> Yep, I've got a Gold Lion 6922 tube on the way to compare to the stock and Electro Harmonix tubes. I hear the Vali 2 doesn't change as much as some other tube amps with tube rolling but it's an inexpensive experiment and should be fun, nonetheless. I'm really liking what I'm hearing from the Electro Harmonix tube I've got in there now, though. It's very smooth and detailed while retaining the kind of richness and warmth tubes are known for.



Do you notice any difference between the stock canadian tube and Elec Harmonix 6922 
Just wondering if its worth getting the 6922EH. If not, then i'd like to jump up to something that makes a difference


----------



## gug42

Hello,
  
 Near question : a good tube (max 30$/€) to drive an he-500 ?


----------



## TheGame21x

maheeinfy said:


> Do you notice any difference between the stock canadian tube and Elec Harmonix 6922
> Just wondering if its worth getting the 6922EH. If not, then i'd like to jump up to something that makes a difference


 
 Honestly, I haven't done any comparisons between the two yet. I didn't even take the stock tube out of the box. Based on what I read before the Vali arrived, the EH6922 is better than the stock tube in just about every way so I didn't even try it, I immediately rolled in the EH6922. That said, I was going to wait until I had the Genalex Gold Lion tube in hand before I did any serious comparisons between the three, and that should be in sometime next week with any luck.


----------



## maheeinfy

thegame21x said:


> Honestly, I haven't done any comparisons between the two yet. I didn't even take the stock tube out of the box. Based on what I read before the Vali arrived, the EH6922 is better than the stock tube in just about every way so I didn't even try it, I immediately rolled in the EH6922. That said, I was going to wait until I had the Genalex Gold Lion tube in hand before I did any serious comparisons between the three, and that should be in sometime next week with any luck.



Thanks, look forward for your impressions


----------



## MPH91

Hello everyone!
  
 I am currently planning on getting a Schiit Mani and a Vali 2 for listening to records on my Project Debut Carbon DC turntable with a Ortofon 2M Red cartridge. I'm using the Audio Technica ATH-M50x. I like the sound to be a little on the warmer site, bass doesn't have to be overwhelming though. Would this setup work out for that or would I risk that the sound is too bright with those components? 
 Thans very much in advance for advice!


----------



## Jacobh

mph91 said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I am currently planning on getting a Schiit Mani and a Vali 2 for listening to records on my Project Debut Carbon DC turntable with a Ortofon 2M Red cartridge. I'm using the Audio Technica ATH-M50x. I like the sound to be a little on the warmer site, bass doesn't have to be overwhelming though. Would this setup work out for that or would I risk that the sound is too bright with those components?
> Thans very much in advance for advice!


 
  
 Both the Magni and Vali are amplifiers.  Did you mean the Modi?


----------



## MPH91

I am talking about the Mani without the g, it's their phono amp.


----------



## Jacobh

My bad.


----------



## bigro

mph91 said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I am currently planning on getting a Schiit Mani and a Vali 2 for listening to records on my Project Debut Carbon DC turntable with a Ortofon 2M Red cartridge. I'm using the Audio Technica ATH-M50x. I like the sound to be a little on the warmer site, bass doesn't have to be overwhelming though. Would this setup work out for that or would I risk that the sound is too bright with those components?
> Thans very much in advance for advice!


 

 I have All of these (Except your TT and Cart) I Just never used them together. The Mani Does not sound bright to me. The ATHM50x's are not what I would call bright Either. The Vali 2 Will change based on the Tube You use and your cartridge can change the sound signature as well. This would be the two things that could have the biggest effect. The 2M red is a Well regarded Entry Level MM cartridge, If it were me I would hunt down a tube that is on the warmer side because Swapping a Tube out is a lot easier and in general cheaper than a Cartridge. that is Unless you do not like your cartridge.


----------



## Hofy

maheeinfy said:


> Do you notice any difference between the stock canadian tube and Elec Harmonix 6922
> Just wondering if its worth getting the 6922EH. If not, then i'd like to jump up to something that makes a difference


 
 The main thing I noticed is the hum with the 6922EH.  So bad I returned it.  The replacement is almost as bad.  I wonder if it is even worth returning it yet again.  For the record I have the Canada 6BZ7, a couple of RCA 6BZ7, Tung-Sol 6BK7B, and Raytheon 6SN7GTB and all are dead silent.


----------



## rgmffn

I didn't notice any hum with mine when I used it.  But I do use low gain which would help. 
  
 Mine came are with a Japan 6BZ7. The EH6922 was a noticeable improvement to me.


----------



## tamleo

domiemic65 said:


> lcd2 is one of my favorite cans..
> 
> 
> please do..






Sorry for late reply. Due to Lunar New year, all my new amps are stuck at airport





 





My Dac are the Modi2u and the Mumby. The Vali2 used with the 6922 EH tube.


I think I like the Asgard 2 most and the Vali2 least.


The Magni2u have an impact bass and lively/cool treble and sounds very alike to my old Mjolnir. I have used the Magni2u for a long time so that I am very familiar with its sound. And the first time I heard the Asgard, all my music just suddenly sounded very "Slow" and boring and soft. But as time goes by, I think the Asgard2 has one thing that the Mjolnir, the Magni2U, the Magini2, the Vali2 should desire. This is the natural sounding.


I hated and sold my Mjolnir because it sounds too digital, esp in the treble range. The Magni2/2u and the Vali2 are much better on this problem but still cannot come close the Asgard.


Asgard2 has a very warm and soft and liquid sound. For example, Mariah Carey sing a word "you". The Magni2u and the Vali2 will be "youuuuuuuuuuuuuu". And "you ú ù u u" on the Asgard. And when she sings the high notes, the sssssjjjjjjjjj sounding is almost non-existent on the Asgard as well. I love it. It make the voice richer and natural. I can focus more on the music. If you come back to the Magni2u and the Vali2 you will hear a plainer, stiffer and stretched voice.


The Magni2u and the Vali2 sound very alike. But the Vali2 adds some strange noise on the singer voice. It makes the voice more raucous, warmer and easy to listen. On the expense, I think the Vali2 is not as clear and transparent and "hi-end" as the Magni2u and the Asgard2.


----------



## tamleo

Hello,
 After turning on the Vali2 for few seconds, there is a loud pop sound in my headphone (not from the amp). Is there anyone out here have this problem with the Vali2 like me? I am afraid it will broken my headphone . Thanks


----------



## RickB

tamleo said:


> Hello,
> After turning on the Vali2 for few seconds, there is a loud pop sound in my headphone (not from the amp). Is there anyone out here have this problem with the Vali2 like me? I am afraid it will broken my headphone . Thanks


 
 The pop is normal. The Vali 2 has a muting relay so it will not damage the headphones when you turn the amp on. If your headphones are low impedance or if you are still concerned, you can wait to plug your headphones in until after the amp has been on for 10 seconds.


----------



## Letmebefrank

This pop is louder or quieter depending on the tube in my experience.


----------



## JediMa70

Hello, I'm still a newbie but I really like to learn...
 I've these headphones, AKG K 702 and Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO I've used them with a good cable with a JDS Labs oxygen and a FiiO X3 2nd gen.
 Now I  bought these beautiful amp, the Vali 2, it's my first valve (hybrid one) and some of my flac 24 bit sounds much better while others seems worse, I dont know if it's because the valve need more hours to be ready, if the cable i'm using is not ok, or the valve itself..
 any kind of information and help is really welcome..
  
 thank you


----------



## Faber65

jedima70 said:


> Hello, I'm still a newbie but I really like to learn...
> I've these headphones, AKG K 702 and Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO I've used them with a good cable with a JDS Labs oxygen and a FiiO X3 2nd gen.
> Now I  bought these beautiful amp, the Vali 2, it's my first valve (hybrid one) and some of my flac 24 bit sounds much better while others seems worse, I dont know if it's because the valve need more hours to be ready, if the cable i'm using is not ok, or the valve itself..
> any kind of information and help is really welcome..
> ...


 
  
 I think that you are experiencing something related to the overall balancing of the system.
 Probably, the combination between the music gender, recording quality, DAC, amp, headphones, sounds different to your ears and you have a different SQ perception.
 In my very personal case, sometimes I like to listen to the same song with different headphones or different amp because of my mood.
 I know that my things have different sound signatures, so I chose the one that I desire to listen to.
 You can read in this blog about people that swap the valves based on the music that they are listening for that reason.
 In any case I strongly suggest you to give valve some hours of running-in and get used to the "tubey" sound of the Vali2.
  
 Enjoy your music.


----------



## Faber65

tamleo said:


> Hello,
> After turning on the Vali2 for few seconds, there is a loud pop sound in my headphone (not from the amp). Is there anyone out here have this problem with the Vali2 like me? I am afraid it will broken my headphone . Thanks


 
  
 Sometimes I use the Vali2 as a preamp and I let it to warm up before switching on my M-Audio monitors.
 So I do with the headphones.
 I respect the opinion of everyone regarding the fact the pop will or will not damage the headphones/monitors, but personally I do not like the loud pop at the engagement of the relay.
 It's also true that some tubes make less noise.


----------



## JediMa70

faber65 said:


> I think that you are experiencing something related to the overall balancing of the system.
> Probably, the combination between the music gender, recording quality, DAC, amp, headphones, sounds different to your ears and you have a different SQ perception.
> In my very personal case, sometimes I like to listen to the same song with different headphones or different amp because of my mood.
> I know that my things have different sound signatures, so I chose the one that I desire to listen to.
> ...


 
 Thank you so much


----------



## cgkades

I just got my Vali 2, and I was hoping to get input from you guys. How much pressure do you put on the tube when putting it in? It feels like I'm going to snap the board with how much pressure I'm putting down. There is no indication that the tube is going in any sort of distance (like that sliding feeling you would get, or a slide then stop). Then if I wiggle the tube (gently) it just pops out like it was never in. Is this normal?


----------



## winders

cgkades said:


> I just got my Vali 2, and I was hoping to get input from you guys. How much pressure do you put on the tube when putting it in? It feels like I'm going to snap the board with how much pressure I'm putting down. There is no indication that the tube is going in any sort of distance (like that sliding feeling you would get, or a slide then stop). Then if I wiggle the tube (gently) it just pops out like it was never in. Is this normal?


 

 If you are going to do any tube rolling, buy one of these:
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
  
 You have push the tube in firmly. It will slide all the way in and you should be able to feel it bottom out.


----------



## cgkades

winders said:


> If you are going to do any tube rolling, buy one of these:
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
> 
> You have push the tube in firmly. It will slide all the way in and you should be able to feel it bottom out.


 
 Man, I put what seems like a LOT of pressure on it. I'll check out that tube too


----------



## cgkades

winders said:


> If you are going to do any tube rolling, buy one of these:
> 
> <removed link because of my lack of permissions>
> 
> You have push the tube in firmly. It will slide all the way in and you should be able to feel it bottom out.


 
  
 Man, I put what seems like a LOT of pressure on that tube and I'm hesitant to put more pressure on it.


----------



## winders

cgkades said:


> Man, I put what seems like a LOT of pressure on that tube and I'm hesitant to put more pressure on it.


 

 Are you sure the pins are lined up properly? The pins will disappear into the socket when installed correctly.


----------



## cgkades

winders said:


> Are you sure the pins are lined up properly? The pins will disappear into the socket when installed correctly.


 
  
 Yeah, I'm sure. One, it's in a u shape and hard to mess up and two I have it in enough to listen to music, but they just will NOT go in further. I can look through the cooling holes and see almost half the pins. I just tried again and I was putting so much pressure on it my arms were shaking.


----------



## cgkades

winders said:


> If you are going to do any tube rolling, buy one of these:
> 
> <link removed because of lack of permissions>


 
  
 Going back to this, what is that?


----------



## winders

cgkades said:


> Yeah, I'm sure. One, it's in a u shape and hard to mess up and two I have it in enough to listen to music, but they just will NOT go in further. I can look through the cooling holes and see almost half the pins. I just tried again and I was putting so much pressure on it my arms were shaking.


 

 You can wobbled the tube back and forth a few degrees while you push it in. But it should go flush.


----------



## cgkades

winders said:


> You can wobbled the tube back and forth a few degrees while you push it in. But it should go flush.


 
  
 Worked on it for a few doing this, and it seems to go mostly in now. Now if I take it all the way out then put it back in, it does slide down a bit then stop.


----------



## winders

cgkades said:


> Going back to this, what is that?


 

 It's called a "socket saver". It saves wear and tear in the mainboard socket if you are going to be doing some tube rolling.


----------



## cgkades

winders said:


> It's called a "socket saver". It saves wear and tear in the mainboard socket if you are going to be doing some tube rolling.


 
 AH ok, makes sense. When I start getting tubes, I'll have to pick one up. Thanks for the recommend.


----------



## JediMa70

Can you tell me please, a good cable (few brands) to connect my Fiio X3 to the vali 2 ? I've found on Amazon 
 Qed
 Audioquest
OEHLBACH 60002 
and so many more .......


----------



## winders

Guys,
  
 I am trading up from my Vali 2 to a Lyr 2. I have some nice single tubes to sell:
  
 Siemens Halske E188CC, Munich, Gray Shields O-Getter, early 60's, Triodes 17/17mA ±0,5  (new = 15mA) NOS - $105
 Valvo Philips E88CC, Heerlen, 7L4 Red Print D-Getter, 1959 (Δ9K), Triodes 10.9/10.5mA (new = 11mA) lightly used  - $60
 GEC Philips PCC88, Heerlen, D-Getter Pinched Waist, 1957 (DJ4 Δ7I), Triodes 9.4/10.5mA (new = 11mA) lightly used  - $110
 Amperex 6922 PQ, USA, white label, shield, gold pins O-Getter, 1966, Triodes 15000/15200 (new = 12500) NOS - $120
 Telefunken ECC88, Ulm, O-Getter, 1962, 90% life - $40
  
 These are prices before shipping and PayPal fees, if any.
  
 The Siemens Halske E188CC has no painted on text on the tube. I have a photo of the tube before the paint came off. I used a microfiber cloth to pull the tube from the Vali 2 and it wiped it all off. I was perturbed to say the least. Lesson learned and tube discounted because of it.
  
 The Valvo tube has red print but some of it is worn off. I got it that way. The "Δ9K" code was on the bottom of the tube but the previous owner cleaned the pin with alcohol and that removed the code.
  
 I have listened to all the tubes and they all work properly with no microphonics. At least not in my Vali 2.


----------



## winders

Heck, I will sell all 5 tubes together for $285 plus shipping and PayPal fees, This i a great way for someone to try a nice cross section of tube types and sounds. There are tubes made in: Munich and Ulm, Germany; Heerlen, Netherlands; and the USA.


----------



## mn24viii

I'm looking for a relatively inexpensive tube amp for my living room setup. I got a brand new NAD amp and its headphone out sucks. 
I also have a Grace m903 (in the bedroom) and a Oppo HA2S as a portable amp.
Headphones are Grado RS1e, HD600 and Beyer DT1770. 
Is the Vali2 on par with the Oppo? Or do I have to go up to the Valhalla? 
The living room Setup will probably be the least used one but should nonetheless be about the same quality as the portable one.


----------



## cgkades

winders said:


> Guys,
> 
> I am trading up from my Vali 2 to a Lyr 2. I have some nice single tubes to sell:
> 
> ...


 
 Do you have the ebay link to your Amperex 6DJ8?


----------



## winders

cgkades said:


> Do you have the ebay link to your Amperex 6DJ8?


 

 I didn't get that one on eBay. In fact, the only one in that list from eBay was the Siemens E188CC. The others I bought from a person here or on US Audio Mart.


----------



## cgkades

winders said:


> I didn't get that one on eBay. In fact, the only one in that list from eBay was the Siemens E188CC. The others I bought from a person here or on US Audio Mart.


 
 Ah ok, I missread, I thought you were selling them on ebay.


----------



## winders

cgkades said:


> Ah ok, I missread, I thought you were selling them on ebay.


 

 Nah. I am offering them here. That package deal is a really good price for some outstanding tubes. That pinched waste tube is awesome. The Siemens is great too and so is the Amperex USA PQ. All the tubes are really nice.


----------



## cgkades

I put in the Amperex 6DJ8 this morning (thanks winders), and wow, it sounds so much better than the stock tube.


----------



## floodbit

Hey Vali 2 friends. So i just got my Vali 2 and am very intrigued by the whole 6sn7 adapter fun. So i was looking at heater currents and all that, but I admit my knowledge in Tube datasheets is lacking. So I'm asking here. Would it be possible to us 6v6 tubes on the 6sn7 adapter, as they do use the same socket type, I just don't know about the Pins. Argh so confused.


----------



## kmp14

I received my Vali 2 recently, and so far I have not been happy with it. I was really hoping to get that warmer tube sound from the Vali 2, and I am experiencing the complete opposite. This is my first foray into a dedicated headphone amp and into tube gear.  I found the stock tube to be shrill, harsh, and grainy in the high frequencies.  I let it burn in for several hours, and it seemed to be softening up a bit, but in the meantime I ordered up a couple tubes recommended on this thread.  I received a Philips PCC88 yesterday and fired it up.  Even with the new tube I still felt the high freqs were very shrill and hot.  I let it burn in for several hours, but I am still hearing the same thing.  I realize I need to let it run for more time, but I am wondering 2 things: * 1.  Is the general character of the Vali 2 to emphasize high freqs?  2. Could something be wrong with mine?*
  
 I also ordered up a NOS E88CC Tesla tube, but it is coming from overseas and will take a while to get here.
  
 When I compare the sound of the Vali 2 to, of all things, my AQ Dragonfly Red (which some say emphasizes high freqs), I find the DFR to have more low-mid body, and smoother highs.
  
 I am running the Vali 2 as follows:  Roon --> Raspberry Pi -->Hifiberry DAC+ --> Beyerdynamic AK T5p.  I have also been running my Sony MDV-V6s.
  
 What am I missing?  I still have time to return the Vali 2 under the 15 day trial.  What to do....
  
 Any thoughts would be appreciated!


----------



## Jacobh

Unless you're hearing audible distortion, humming, or something else like that I doubt it's defective.  The Vali 2 is a hybrid amp, and Schiit seems to tune things towards the neutral/brighter side so it's entirely possible it's an inherently brighter amp than the Dragon Fly Red (which I've never heard).  FWIW, Headfonia described the Red as a "warm" sounding amp, so the Vali might not be bright in general, but still bright in comparison to the DFR. Sound is pretty individual though, so it's hard to go by other people's descriptions unless you've heard their opinions about a lot of equipment and find it consistent with your own.
  
 I actually just picked up a used Vali 2, but I've only listened a few hours with one of the stock tubes.  It's not enough time to make any real judgments and I didn't do any real A/Bing, but if there is any extra warmth in the Vali (in my setup) it's more in the upper mids.  I do have another hybrid (X-Can V2) and while I've heard differences between tubes, I never found changing tubes to have a huge impact on the overall balance of the sound.  The Vali is obviously a different amp, but I think general consensus for hybrid amps is that the circuit drives the fundamental sound signature and the tubes add some flavor to it.  
  
 I'd probably give it a few more days, let the tubes get some time on them, and see if you like the sound any better.  If you still don't like it, take advantage of the return period and pay the restocking fee.  You could always keep it longer if you want to give it more of a chance and try selling it as well (they seem to hold value pretty decently, so you probably won't lose much more than the restocking fee that way - particularly if you throw in some of your extra tubes).


----------



## kmp14

jacobh said:


> Unless you're hearing audible distortion, humming, or something else like that I doubt it's defective.  The Vali 2 is a hybrid amp, and Schiit seems to tune things towards the neutral/brighter side so it's entirely possible it's an inherently brighter amp than the Dragon Fly Red (which I've never heard).  FWIW, Headfonia described the Red as a "warm" sounding amp, so the Vali might not be bright in general, but still bright in comparison to the DFR. Sound is pretty individual though, so it's hard to go by other people's descriptions unless you've heard their opinions about a lot of equipment and find it consistent with your own.
> 
> I actually just picked up a used Vali 2, but I've only listened a few hours with one of the stock tubes.  It's not enough time to make any real judgments and I didn't do any real A/Bing, but if there is any extra warmth in the Vali (in my setup) it's more in the upper mids.  I do have another hybrid (X-Can V2) and while I've heard differences between tubes, I never found changing tubes to have a huge impact on the overall balance of the sound.  The Vali is obviously a different amp, but I think general consensus for hybrid amps is that the circuit drives the fundamental sound signature and the tubes add some flavor to it.
> 
> I'd probably give it a few more days, let the tubes get some time on them, and see if you like the sound any better.  If you still don't like it, take advantage of the return period and pay the restocking fee.  You could always keep it longer if you want to give it more of a chance and try selling it as well (they seem to hold value pretty decently, so you probably won't lose much more than the restocking fee that way - particularly if you throw in some of your extra tubes).




Great advice. Thanks!


----------



## Indigo Bob

Hello,
  
 I was curious about the warmth of the sound with regards to tube warmth for the Vali 2...
  
 I understand that it is neutral and have listened to it briefly my self and was impressed with the clarity....
  
 But I was wondering if tube rolling has an impact on the sound that is similar to having the added tube warmth, or does it being a hybrid limit this ability to adde the extra tube warmth onto the sound by tube rolling?


----------



## r2muchstuff

To me, tubes can change the Vale 2 from mellow to harsh with a lot of differences in between.
  
 JMTC & IMHO,
 r2


----------



## Jacobh

It's hard to know exactly what you mean by tube warmth because there are warm solid state amps and bright tube amps.  I'm sure some people would say otherwise, but in my experience changing tubes in a hybrid amp doesn't dramatically alter the sound (maybe it effects that last 5-10%).   To some people that last 5-10% is a bit deal and to others it's subtle.  
  
 If you've heard the Vali 2 already you should have a good idea of the general sound.  While different tubes might make it slightly warmer, improve instrument separation  a bit, or add some more sense of space, I personally wouldn't expect miracles.  It's also nearly impossible to really A/B test a tube amp (unless you have two of them).  I've only tried two tubes in my Vali 2 (stock and a JAN Phillips 6922 with green label) and I would say the Phillips had a slightly more "open" sound in that instruments felt a little better defined, but neither was what I would call warmer than the other.  
  
 So I think the answer to your question is a qualified yes.  If you are really looking for a "tubey" sound, the Vali 2 might not be your best option.  I have heard that the Little Dot MKI is a hybrid that has a sound more traditionally associated with tubes, but I've never listened to one.


----------



## r2muchstuff

But then so can headphones 
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## Indigo Bob

I think the lack of definitiveness does answer the question thankyou...  Have any of you guys tested the vali 2 as well as the valhalla 2 and possibly provide some comparison?
  
 I will ask the Valhalla 2 thread as well...


----------



## RickB

indigo bob said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was curious about the warmth of the sound with regards to tube warmth for the Vali 2...
> 
> ...




In my experience, a 6CG7EH made the Vali 2 sound the warmest I've heard it. It was still pretty neutral, though.


----------



## Indigo Bob

rickb said:


> In my experience, a 6CG7EH made the Vali 2 sound the warmest I've heard it. It was still pretty neutral, though.


 

 I was really impressed with the clarity of teh Schiit amps, but I just love that tube sound...  I listened to the Valhalla 2 for a short single session and the clarity was wonderful, but it did lack that "tubey sound" I am fond of.
  
 The prices and values are absolutely wonderful, and I was hoping to use them to pursuit this Tubey sound, but I fear it may be a little challenging to do so while keeping the spending as low as possible.


----------



## winders

indigo bob said:


> I was really impressed with the clarity of teh Schiit amps, but I just love that tube sound...  I listened to the Valhalla 2 for a short single session and the clarity was wonderful, but it did lack that "tubey sound" I am fond of.
> 
> The prices and values are absolutely wonderful, and I was hoping to use them to pursuit this Tubey sound, but I fear it may be a little challenging to do so while keeping the spending as low as possible.


 

 I have some really great sounding tubes for the Vali 2. Check out my signature.
  
 In some ways I wish I still had my Vali 2 as tube rolling is so much easier and cheaper with it!


----------



## r2muchstuff

Two things:
  
 I remember somewhere it was stated that Schiit tube amps - "Are not your Daddy's ( or Grandaddy's ) tube amps".
  
 The words we use to describe the sound of DACs, Amps, Headphones, Tubes or what not, generally instill a greater sense of difference than reality presents.
 I know my words do 
  
 IMHO.
 r2


----------



## winders

r2muchstuff said:


> Two things:
> 
> I remember somewhere it was stated that Schiit tube amps - "Are not your Daddy's ( or Grandaddy's ) tube amps".
> 
> ...


 

 I read the opposite. Many less expensive amps that have tubes don't supply them much power and they are little more than window dressing. Schiit supply the tubes with power and they have a real impact on the sound generated. With my Vali 2 I noticed quite a bit of difference in the sound when using different tubes. In my tube rolling adventures, I have discovered that prefer a clean and tight sound rather than a warm sound. This is why I prefer the Germans tubes to the Heerlen tubes.


----------



## r2muchstuff

winders said:


> I read the opposite. Many less expensive amps that have tubes don't supply them much power and they are little more than window dressing. Schiit supply the tubes with power and they have a real impact on the sound generated. With my Vali 2 I noticed quite a bit of difference in the sound when using different tubes. In my tube rolling adventures, I have discovered that prefer a clean and tight sound rather than a warm sound. This is why I prefer the Germans tubes to the Heerlen tubes.


 

 The quote, I think, refered to the clarity of the Schiit tube amps, so we agree.
  
 r2


----------



## HOWIE13

To have a warm sound firstly there has to be warmth in the recording. Otherwise any warmth imparted will sound artificial.
  
 Secondly, the rest of your kit needs to be able to impart the original warmth, especially your headphones. If your headphones are not capable of producing a warm sound you won't hear one.
  
 The belief that modern tube amps produce a warm and cuddly sound like grandpa's 1950's radio is a myth.
  
 Finally, _as a group_, 9 pin Noval tubes like ECC88/6DJ8 tubes that we regularly use in Vali2, are not particularly warm and euphonic, Many were never intended for audio equipment, rather for scientific and military use. They can sound very good, but not often with a warm glow.
  
 For that warmer, embracing euphony for me Octals are required, such as 6SN7 tubes. They need an adapter and a socket saver to use with vali2 and there's quite a lot of discussion in the threads about them and how they sound.  
  
 Of course we all hear music differently and this is just my personal experience.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Yes on the 6SN7 tubes, thinking a move from Noval to Octals would be cool for some of Schiit's headphone amps.
  
 IMHO,
 r2


----------



## HOWIE13

Another tube which exudes that lovely warm glow is the RCA 6F8G.  You can even go for dual tubes, like 'Frankenvali' set-ups. These both need their own special adapters.
  
 I'm almost sure I and others posted pictures of these way back on one of the Vali2 threads, where they are discussed.
  
 Vali2 responds really well to tube rolling but always remember the maximum tube heater current Vali can tolerate is 0.6A


----------



## r2muchstuff

I went to adapters and 6SN7 on the Vali 2 and Lyr, never went so far as to consider the "Franken" adapters though.  Maybe just too over the top for me.
  
 The Lyr 6SN7 setup is proving to be very satisfying.
  
 r2


----------



## HOWIE13

r2muchstuff said:


> I went to adapters and 6SN7 on the Vali 2 and Lyr, never went so far as to consider the "Franken" adapters though.  Maybe just too over the top for me.
> 
> The Lyr 6SN7 setup is proving to be very satisfying.
> 
> r2


 
  
 Yes for Vali2 I think you get great sound from 6F8G tubes, which only require a 6F8G to an ECC88 adapter going into an ECC88 socket saver. Here's the adapter;
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-6F8G-6C8G-TO-ECC88-6922-6N6-6N11-tube-adapter-CNC-Copper-body-/191554107223?hash=item2c9983b757:g:j~4AAOSwstxVFUiM
  
 I've no idea where I posted an earlier picture so here's another. Listening just now- beautifully warm, incandescent sounding.
  
 Almost as good as Grandpa's old radio!


----------



## Indigo Bob

howie13 said:


> Yes for Vali2 I think you get great sound from 6F8G tubes, which only require a 6F8G to an ECC88 adapter going into an ECC88 socket saver. Here's the adapter;
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-6F8G-6C8G-TO-ECC88-6922-6N6-6N11-tube-adapter-CNC-Copper-body-/191554107223?hash=item2c9983b757:g:j~4AAOSwstxVFUiM
> 
> ...


 

 Now you got me curious!
  
 See, that's the reaction to that warm tubey sound!!
  
 I am going to put this on my wishlist now, thank you.


----------



## HOWIE13

indigo bob said:


> Now you got me curious!
> 
> See, that's the reaction to that warm tubey sound!!
> 
> I am going to put this on my wishlist now, thank you.


 
  
 If you have time to trawl through the Vali2 threads you will find some discussion-maybe about 9 months ago, at a rough guess-not sure which Vali2 thread though.
  
 I've only heard the RCA.  There's some reasonably priced ones (like around £40, including postage) on the German eBay website at present, plenty on the US site too.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## JediMa70

I've read that few here are using Schiit Vali 2 with HD600, is it enough to play them at best?


----------



## teb1013

jedima70 said:


> I've read that few here are using Schiit Vali 2 with HD600, is it enough to play them at best?




As far as I'm concerned absolutely. The HD 600 doesn't need a super powerful amp and the Vali2 is a considerable improvement over the onboard amp on the Aune T1 which did a good job with them (still use the Aune as a DAC).


----------



## Faber65

teb1013 said:


> jedima70 said:
> 
> 
> > I've read that few here are using Schiit Vali 2 with HD600, is it enough to play them at best?
> ...




Absolutely! 
It works with the HD650, I don't see problems with the 600.


----------



## HOWIE13

jedima70 said:


> I've read that few here are using Schiit Vali 2 with HD600, is it enough to play them at best?


 
 Perfect for me with HD600.


----------



## JediMa70

Thanks alot


----------



## Jacobh

I've been listening a lot more with my Vali 2 and doing some A/Bing with a MF X-Cans V2.  Overall the amps sound very similar (both provide plenty of power for Senn HD580 and HD650), but Vali 2 is definitely a bit brighter with the stock tubes.  I have a 6SN7 tube and adapter on the way, so I'm interested to see if that tames the treble just a little bit (which would be perfect).  
  
 I'm probably don't need two amps that sound this similar, so I'll have to figure out which one to sell and maybe look at an OTL (Valhalla, Bottlehead, or Little Dot).  I do like Schiit's products overall, but I'm thinking the Bottlehead or Little Dot will be more different than the Vali/X-Can and SS amps I have.


----------



## serman005

I am looking at a possible Vali 2 acquisition. Based on the previous post, I am wondering if other people would characterize their Vali 2 as bright. It could potentially influence my decision. Many thanks for the feedback.


----------



## Jacobh

I would probably call it neutral with the stock tube (that I have). Plenty of people suggest rolling tubes can add warmth. I went for a 6sn7 for that reason, but I'm still waiting on the adapter to try it out.


----------



## winders

serman005 said:


> I am looking at a possible Vali 2 acquisition. Based on the previous post, I am wondering if other people would characterize their Vali 2 as bright. It could potentially influence my decision. Many thanks for the feedback.


 

 It's only as bright as the tube you use in it. I wasn't a fan of the stock tube. I wouldn't call it bright. I thought it was a little harsh. You want warmth? Use a 6922 or 7308 tube made in the Heerlen factory. I preferred the sound of the German tubes which I think are more accurate and precise. My favorite are the Siemens CCa gray shield tubes from the very early 60's. I used Sennheiser HD 650 cans and did not think the Vali 2 was bright.


----------



## Jacobh

It's all relative I guess. In this thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/838448/want-to-try-a-tube-amp-schiit-fulla-2-vali-2/15#post_13311134) the poster says it's less bright stock than the Fulla 2. 

I can only say for me the Vali with stock tubes was brighter than the X-Cans with Sovtek 6922s and similar to my solid state amp. It's definitely not overly bright, but i also wouldn't call it warm stock. I still prefer it to my solid state (on aesthetics alone) and have high hopes for the 6sn7 giving me the sound I like. 

I have a JAN Phillips 6922 that I pulled from my X-cans so I'll give that a go when I get a chance as well.

This is with a HD580 and 650.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Basically neutral.  The fun is flavoring with tubes 
  
 6SN7 tubes can add warmth, but they are also open and clear.
  
 IMHO,
 r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

winders said:


> ... I used Sennheiser HD 650 cans and did not think the Vali 2 was bright.


 
 I look for tubes to add sparkle ("bright") to the HD 650 and tubes to tone down the "bright" of the T90 et.al.
  
 I have never thought of HD 650 as bright  8^)
  
 IMHO,
 r2


----------



## serman005

Thanks for the feedback, guys--I really appreciate it. Looks like I'll be buying some tubes...


----------



## RickB

serman005 said:


> I am looking at a possible Vali 2 acquisition. Based on the previous post, I am wondering if other people would characterize their Vali 2 as bright. It could potentially influence my decision. Many thanks for the feedback.


 
 Compared to pure solid state, it is not bright. This is with either the stock tube, or any other tube I've tried (3 or 4 different ones at this point). 
  
 It is not syrupy tube warm, however.


----------



## MPH91

I'm currently considering to buy the Vali 2 or the Little Dot Mk II but I can't really find any proper comparisons. Could anybody explain to me what differences there could be in their sound signature? Thanks!


----------



## Jacobh

mph91 said:


> I'm currently considering to buy the Vali 2 or the Little Dot Mk II but I can't really find any proper comparisons. Could anybody explain to me what differences there could be in their sound signature? Thanks!




With all the normal caveats of sound being personal. 

I have not heard any of the little dots, but have read a lot trying to answer a similar question. From what I understand the MKII should sound more like what you think about as a stereotypical "tube" sound. Generally that means the treble will be rolled off and the mids will be a little pronounced and "syrupy". This does not mean less detailed necessarily, I think it's more about decay. 

The Vali should be more neutral with a little hint of the stereotypical tube sound. 

More objectively there are other things to consider. Both offer pre-amp capabilities and variable gain. The Little Dots seem more susceptible noise and ground loops. The Vali has a big wall wart where the Little Dot has a standard power cord (like for a computer). Rolling tubes in the Vali only requires one tube (so it's cheaper and you don't have to worry about matches tubes), but it probably has slightly less of an impact on the sound. They are different sizes and look very different. While I've heard good things about Little Dot service if you buy from their authorized representative, dealing with warranty service in the US will be easier with Schiit and they have a 15 day return window (with restocking fee).

I should also add the Vali will work better with low impedance headphones and can put out a lot more power for low impedance but inefficient headphones like planars.


----------



## Tuneslover

jacobh said:


> With all the normal caveats of sound being personal.
> 
> I have not heard any of the little dots, but have read a lot trying to answer a similar question. From what I understand the MKII should sound more like what you think about as a stereotypical "tube" sound. Generally that means the treble will be rolled off and the mids will be a little pronounced and "syrupy". This does not mean less detailed necessarily, I think it's more about decay.
> 
> ...




Vali2 (& Modi MB) sounds very good with HE500. Plenty of juice to drive them on low gain too.


----------



## Jacobh

So my 6SN7 to ECC88 adapter came in and either the adapter or the tube is bad, but I'm not sure how to tell since I only have one of each. Any suggestions?

The tube lights up, but I only get sound out of one channel and a buzzing (that changes if I touch the base of the tube/adapter) in the other channel. It also looks like the adapter could fit into the Vali in two orientations (since there are two gaps). 

On the positive side the 6N3 adapters seem to work and I'm enjoying a GE 5670w more than the stock tube so far.

This is what the bottom of the adapter looks like:


----------



## HipHopScribe

jacobh said:


> So my 6SN7 to ECC88 adapter came in and either the adapter or the tube is bad, but I'm not sure how to tell since I only have one of each. Any suggestions?
> 
> The tube lights up, but I only get sound out of one channel and a buzzing (that changes if I touch the base of the tube/adapter) in the other channel. It also looks like the adapter could fit into the Vali in two orientations (since there are two gaps).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm a tube novice, but it seems odd that the adapter only has 8 pins instead of 9


----------



## Jacobh

Looking at the pin outs, I can't see how this can possibly work.  The ebay listing I purchased it from has 9 pins in the picture, so unfortunately it looks like I got a dud.  Hopefully the seller will just send a new one and I'm only out a few weeks waiting.  At least the 6N3 adapters seem fine.


----------



## boostergold90

So, I'm not sure if it's only recently come up or it's because my Teaks are easier to drive than my HD650's, but I definitely have a rather distracting hum from my Vali whether in low or high gain mode. It is much less noticeable on my 650's, which may well be why I haven't noticed it until the last couple weeks when I really started listening with my Teaks. I looked back in this thread and found a few comments about it but wasn't sure if there were any causes or fixes identified.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Tube?
  
 Ground loop?
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## rnros

r2muchstuff said:


> Tube?
> 
> Ground loop?
> 
> ...


 

 +1 on the r2.
 Especially with the HD650 at 300 Ohm, that will hide a lot of tube hum.


----------



## boostergold90

rnros said:


> +1 on the r2.
> Especially with the HD650 at 300 Ohm, that will hide a lot of tube hum.


 
 Well, it's just the stock tube that it came with.
  
 Tried moving it from the surge protector (which I'd gotten a few weeks ago) to another outlet and voila, problem solved. Dead quiet on low or high gain on my Teaks. That was easy. 
  
 Edit: Haha, just kidding. Of course it was dead silent, the connectors on the Teaks had come unplugged. Still humming. Like I said, this is with the stock tube.


----------



## RickB

The Vali uses a two-prong wall wart that isn't grounded, so I wouldn't think it would be a ground loop. Though I'm open to being corrected on that.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Old timers will remember ..... before USA AC plugs were polarized, simply reversing the plugs orientation could remove hum/buzz etc. on an audio system.
  
 JMTC & memories,
 r2


----------



## Jacobh

boostergold90 said:


> Well, it's just the stock tube that it came with.
> 
> Tried moving it from the surge protector (which I'd gotten a few weeks ago) to another outlet and voila, problem solved. Dead quiet on low or high gain on my Teaks. That was easy.
> 
> Edit: Haha, just kidding. Of course it was dead silent, the connectors on the Teaks had come unplugged. Still humming. Like I said, this is with the stock tube.




Does it stop if you touch the pre-amp outputs?


----------



## boostergold90

Hmm. Nope, that doesn't stop it. Doesn't matter if I've got anything hooked up to any of the inputs/outputs on the back.


----------



## HipHopScribe

boostergold90 said:


> Hmm. Nope, that doesn't stop it. Doesn't matter if I've got anything hooked up to any of the inputs/outputs on the back.


 
  
 You might try replacing the tube


----------



## boostergold90

hiphopscribe said:


> You might try replacing the tube


 
 Any recommendations?


----------



## HipHopScribe

boostergold90 said:


> Any recommendations?


 
  
 Depends on what you want to spend. I'm running an  electro harmonix 6922 right now. Good, inexpensive tube


----------



## boostergold90

hiphopscribe said:


> Depends on what you want to spend. I'm running an  electro harmonix 6922 right now. Good, inexpensive tube


 
 Cool. I'm definitely not looking to break the bank on anything, but as this is my first foray into...well, any of this...just looking for a good starting point.


----------



## r2muchstuff

boostergold90 said:


> Cool. I'm definitely not looking to break the bank on anything, but as this is my first foray into...well, any of this...just looking for a good starting point.


 

 Contact Schiit, they may provide you another tube 
  
 However, you should buy a few.
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## PaulieB

Just ordered the Vali 2 yesterday to pair up with my HD650 and K550, I feel like a kid at Christmas waiting. 

This will be my first amp so looking forward to hearing how it sounds. 

This is what I plan to do, is this OK? 

Laptop -> Audioquest Dragonfly 1.2 -> 3.5 to RCA cable -> Vali 2 -> Headphones

Anyone ever used the dragonfly with the Vali 2 and how does it sound?


----------



## mks100

paulieb said:


> Just ordered the Vali 2 yesterday to pair up with my HD650 and K550, I feel like a kid at Christmas waiting.
> 
> This will be my first amp so looking forward to hearing how it sounds.
> 
> ...


 
 I have this setup (DragonFly Red/Black).  I previously owned the 1.2 as well.  You will just need to set the Volume of the DragonFly to 100%.  IMO the Vali 2 is a significant upgrade from the DragonFly's internal Amplification and should make a noticeable difference with your HD650s.  The DragonFly is a great DAC and comparable to most of the DACs at the $100 - $200 Price Point.  I recently purchased a Mimby (Modi Multibit) and would recommend it is a future upgrade once you have gotten used to the Vali 2's signature and impact on your system.  There is no urgency to upgrade your DAC however.


----------



## PaulieB

mks100 said:


> I have this setup (DragonFly Red/Black).  I previously owned the 1.2 as well.  You will just need to set the Volume of the DragonFly to 100%.  IMO the Vali 2 is a significant upgrade from the DragonFly's internal Amplification and should make a noticeable difference with your HD650s.  The DragonFly is a great DAC and comparable to most of the DACs at the $100 - $200 Price Point.  I recently purchased a Mimby (Modi Multibit) and would recommend it is a future upgrade once you have gotten used to the Vali 2's signature and impact on your system.  There is no urgency to upgrade your DAC however.




Thanks that's reassuring to hear! I was thinking I will eventually upgrade the dragonfly to possibly the Modi2 uber, would that be a better DAC than that dragonfly?


----------



## mks100

paulieb said:


> Thanks that's reassuring to hear! I was thinking I will eventually upgrade the dragonfly to possibly the Modi2 uber, would that be a better DAC than that dragonfly?


 
 I have owned the Modi 2 previously and have tried the Fulla 2.  They were both comparable to the DragonFly in terms of resolution.  Perhaps a bit warmer with the AKM in the Modi 2/Fulla 2 vs the ESS Sabre in the DragonFly.  I would save for the Mimby as it is a noticeable upgrade over the Modi 2/Fulla 2/DragonFly and less of a lateral move.  Regardless, I think the Vali 2 and any of these DACs will be a great baseline system for your Headphones.  Improvements past this point will be considerably more expensive and incremental.  Again, just an opinion.


----------



## boostergold90

Got my EH 6922 tube, just popped it in and...silence. Ah, much better. Look forward to getting some hours on it this afternoon.


----------



## PaulieB

mks100 said:


> I have owned the Modi 2 previously and have tried the Fulla 2.  They were both comparable to the DragonFly in terms of resolution.  Perhaps a bit warmer with the AKM in the Modi 2/Fulla 2 vs the ESS Sabre in the DragonFly.  I would save for the Mimby as it is a noticeable upgrade over the Modi 2/Fulla 2/DragonFly and less of a lateral move.  Regardless, I think the Vali 2 and any of these DACs will be a great baseline system for your Headphones.  Improvements past this point will be considerably more expensive and incremental.  Again, just an opinion.




Excuse my ignorance but is the mimby the Modi Multibit?


----------



## winders

paulieb said:


> Excuse my ignorance but is the mimby the Modi Multibit?


 

 Yes!
  
 Mimby = Modi Multibit
 Bimby - Bifrost Multibit
 Gumby = Gungnir Multibit
 Yggy  = Yggdrasil


----------



## PaulieB

winders said:


> Yes!
> 
> Mimby = Modi Multibit
> Bimby - Bifrost Multibit
> ...


 

 Excellent, thank you Sir!


----------



## PaulieB

Probably not the place for this question but what are the main differences between the Modi 2 Uber and Mimby?
  
 The Mimby is double the price of the Modi 2 Uber, is this justified?


----------



## winders

paulieb said:


> Probably not the place for this question but what are the main differences between the Modi 2 Uber and Mimby?
> 
> The Mimby is double the price of the Modi 2 Uber, is this justified?


 
  
 Yes, the wrong forum. You should ask this in the "Dedicated Source Components" forum in the "Happy as a Pig in Schiit: Introducing Modi Multibit" thread.

 The price difference is not double. The Mimby is basically the same as the Uber except that it is multibit versus sigma delta.


----------



## tamleo

paulieb said:


> Probably not the place for this question but what are the main differences between the Modi 2 Uber and Mimby?
> 
> The Mimby is double the price of the Modi 2 Uber, is this justified?


 
 Believe me or not, it is up to you. But you will not regret buying the Modi2u. It is better valued p/p and has a nicer bass IMHO


----------



## winders

tamleo said:


> Believe me or not, it is up to you. But you will not regret buying the Modi2u. It is better valued p/p and has a nicer bass IMHO


 
  
 The Mimby is the better DAC.

 Continue this conversation over in the "Dedicated Source Components" forum in the "Happy as a Pig in Schiit: Introducing Modi Multibit" thread.


----------



## mks100

I now have the Electro-Harmonix 6922 EH (~ $20) and the Genalex Gold Lion E88CC (~ $45) purchased from Amazon.  I used the Stock Tube for the first 4 Weeks and then added the EH and used it for another 4 Weeks.  I have been burning in the Genalex for the past 72 Hours and listening throughout the process.  I would say Genalex > EH >>> Stock Tube from a Warmth perspective.  I don't think I would purchase a LISST as the Stock Tube almost sounds Solid State in comparison.  All are very quiet with no perceptible noise.  I will most likely move backwards to better understand the differences before acquiring any additional Tubes.


----------



## Grado Diesel

I'm using HIFIMAN HE-400i's with my Vali 2. The headphones are 35 ohms. What have others found to be the best gain setting for these cans - high or low?


----------



## Tuneslover

grado diesel said:


> I'm using HIFIMAN HE-400i's with my Vali 2. The headphones are 35 ohms. What have others found to be the best gain setting for these cans - high or low?


 
 I tend to stick with low gain with pretty much all of my headphones (HD650, HE500, HD598SE & CS).


----------



## cgkades

grado diesel said:


> I'm using HIFIMAN HE-400i's with my Vali 2. The headphones are 35 ohms. What have others found to be the best gain setting for these cans - high or low?


 
 You'd be fine with low gain. I think i have mine at 50% - 80% at low with my 400i's. I don't have any issues on high gain either though and usually listen to 25% - 50% when using high gain


----------



## Grado Diesel

cgkades said:


> You'd be fine with low gain. I think i have mine at 50% - 80% at low with my 400i's. I don't have any issues on high gain either though and usually listen to 25% - 50% when using high gain




Yeah that's what I experienced today when switching it to low. I haven't done enough listening this way yet but it does seem to increase the tubiness quality of the amp.


----------



## mks100

grado diesel said:


> I'm using HIFIMAN HE-400i's with my Vali 2. The headphones are 35 ohms. What have others found to be the best gain setting for these cans - high or low?


 
 For my HE-400i, Low Gain = 10 O' Clock - 2 O' Clock depending on the Recording.  High Gain = 9 O' Clock - 11 O' Clock.  Only use High Gain if you have the Volume Pot past 9 O' Clock to avoid Channel Imbalance.  Maybe an Urban Legend, but it has served me well over the years with dealing with Amplifiers with High/Low Gain Settings.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

Quick question for anyone using the Vali 2 in hi-gain mode with "harder to drive" cans and speakers/monitors on the preamp out. Can you hear any sound from your speakers/monitors while playing anything with your headphones? I understand that the preamp out jacks are supposed to mute when headphones are plugged in up front. With my Vali 2, I can hear music/audio very faintly through my speakers while headphones plugged in. I practically have to put my ears right next to the speakers to hear it, but sure enough there is still some sound coming from the preamp out jacks to the speakers. I confirmed this with two different sets of speakers. I found this by accident when I was burning in my HD650s a couple nights ago and had them covered up, so it definitely isn't sound leakage from the headphones. I am currently exchanging emails with Schiit's tech support and hopefully working towards a solution.
  
 I found that I can adjust the volume knob on my speakers so it isn't audible. Not really a deal breaker for me, but a minor quirk I wasn't expecting. I would love to know if anyone else can reproduce this.
  
 My sound settings:
 Windows - 100% volume, no extra EQ software
 Tidal - 100% volume (or your music source of choice)
 Vali 2 - Around 50% or 11 to 1 o'clock position and hi-gain mode (currently using Gold Lion E88CC tube)
 Speakers - 50% (you may need to adjust this depending on how sensitive your speakers are)


----------



## AviP

riflemanfirst said:


> Quick question for anyone using the Vali 2 in hi-gain mode with "harder to drive" cans and speakers/monitors on the preamp out. Can you hear any sound from your speakers/monitors while playing anything with your headphones? I understand that the preamp out jacks are supposed to mute when headphones are plugged in up front. With my Vali 2, I can hear music/audio very faintly through my speakers while headphones plugged in. I practically have to put my ears right next to the speakers to hear it, but sure enough there is still some sound coming from the preamp out jacks to the speakers. I confirmed this with two different sets of speakers. I found this by accident when I was burning in my HD650s a couple nights ago and had them covered up, so it definitely isn't sound leakage from the headphones. I am currently exchanging emails with Schiit's tech support and hopefully working towards a solution.
> 
> I found that I can adjust the volume knob on my speakers so it isn't audible. Not really a deal breaker for me, but a minor quirk I wasn't expecting. I would love to know if anyone else can reproduce this.
> 
> ...



I had something similar when I used my SYS in reverse. I had 1 input and 2 selectable outputs and the output that wasn't selected still had music coming through very very faintly. When I asked if anyone else had the same thing on the SYS thread, nobody spoke up, I don't know if mine is bad or what, but maybe it's a Schiit thing...


----------



## RiflemanFirst

avip said:


> I had something similar when I used my SYS in reverse. I had 1 input and 2 selectable outputs and the output that wasn't selected still had music coming through very very faintly. When I asked if anyone else had the same thing on the SYS thread, nobody spoke up, I don't know if mine is bad or what, but maybe it's a Schiit thing...




Interesting and thanks for speaking up. Schiit tech support (Nick) says they will be testing a few of their Vali 2s to see if they can reproduce my findings and will get back to me. I think this may be a quirk of the design, but I obviously can't confirm that with a sample size of just one. Otherwise, my Vali 2 is defective and may need a warranty return for repair or replacement. I'm very interested to hear back from Nick and see what he is able to find.


----------



## HipHopScribe

riflemanfirst said:


> Quick question for anyone using the Vali 2 in hi-gain mode with "harder to drive" cans and speakers/monitors on the preamp out. Can you hear any sound from your speakers/monitors while playing anything with your headphones? I understand that the preamp out jacks are supposed to mute when headphones are plugged in up front. With my Vali 2, I can hear music/audio very faintly through my speakers while headphones plugged in. I practically have to put my ears right next to the speakers to hear it, but sure enough there is still some sound coming from the preamp out jacks to the speakers. I confirmed this with two different sets of speakers. I found this by accident when I was burning in my HD650s a couple nights ago and had them covered up, so it definitely isn't sound leakage from the headphones. I am currently exchanging emails with Schiit's tech support and hopefully working towards a solution.
> 
> I found that I can adjust the volume knob on my speakers so it isn't audible. Not really a deal breaker for me, but a minor quirk I wasn't expecting. I would love to know if anyone else can reproduce this.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just tested this and mine does the same thing


----------



## RiflemanFirst

hiphopscribe said:


> Just tested this and mine does the same thing


 
  
 Thanks for checking. Just out of curiosity, how long have you had your Vali 2? I bought mine less than a month ago. Also, I'm still waiting for Nick from Schiit to get back to me about what they find in their testing.


----------



## mks100

riflemanfirst said:


> Quick question for anyone using the Vali 2 in hi-gain mode with "harder to drive" cans and speakers/monitors on the preamp out. Can you hear any sound from your speakers/monitors while playing anything with your headphones? I understand that the preamp out jacks are supposed to mute when headphones are plugged in up front. With my Vali 2, I can hear music/audio very faintly through my speakers while headphones plugged in. I practically have to put my ears right next to the speakers to hear it, but sure enough there is still some sound coming from the preamp out jacks to the speakers. I confirmed this with two different sets of speakers. I found this by accident when I was burning in my HD650s a couple nights ago and had them covered up, so it definitely isn't sound leakage from the headphones. I am currently exchanging emails with Schiit's tech support and hopefully working towards a solution.
> 
> I found that I can adjust the volume knob on my speakers so it isn't audible. Not really a deal breaker for me, but a minor quirk I wasn't expecting. I would love to know if anyone else can reproduce this.
> 
> ...


 
 Just tested with my Vali 2 and Kanto Yumi's.  I unplugged my Headphones and left the 1/4" Adapter in so as not to damage my Headphones.  I turned the Vali 2 up nearly all the way before I heard music coming from the Speakers.  The sound was barely audible.  That being said, the Vali 2 did leak through the Pre Amp outputs with the 1/4" Adapter inserted.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

mks100 said:


> Just tested with my Vali 2 and Kanto Yumi's.  I unplugged my Headphones and left the 1/4" Adapter in so as not to damage my Headphones.  I turned the Vali 2 up nearly all the way before I heard music coming from the Speakers.  The sound was barely audible.  That being said, the Vali 2 did leak through the Pre Amp outputs with the 1/4" Adapter inserted.


 
  
 Thanks for confirming with your setup as well. That makes 3 for 3 so far.


----------



## HipHopScribe

riflemanfirst said:


> Thanks for checking. Just out of curiosity, how long have you had your Vali 2? I bought mine less than a month ago. Also, I'm still waiting for Nick from Schiit to get back to me about what they find in their testing.


 
  
 I bought mine second hand


----------



## RiflemanFirst

Got some answers from Nick. He told me that they were able to reproduce my findings and that "This is the reality of every audio component-there is always a little residual noise/crosstalk."
  
 I guess its just a quirk I'll have to live with then. I really have nothing else negative to say about the Vali 2 and it sounds great with all my current headphones & speakers.


----------



## r2muchstuff

riflemanfirst said:


> Got some answers from Nick. He told me that they were able to reproduce my findings and that "This is the reality of every audio component-there is always a little residual noise/crosstalk."
> ...


 
 I have found this to be true, with pre amps, amps, receivers, mixer boards, in-put/out put switches or what have you.  Both vintage and newer.  
  
 One input active with a source, another input selected, volume max up = faint audio from the other input at the speakers/headphones.
  
 Some stuff is worse than others, but generally it is there.  On a lot of vintage, phono is "available" on all source selections 
  
 I always found it to be way below the actual source in use volume and not an issue, however I prefer to turn off all unused sources, ie. tuner off when using phono etc.
  
 IMHO & experience,
 r2


----------



## Jacobh

The pre-amp turn off is probably done by a high value resistor that gets added to the pre-amp output when something is plugged into the headphone jack. Since the headphone out still has a non-zero resistance some current will still flow to the pre-amp out. If you have the volume up all the way and your speakers are efficient you can probably just hear something if you put your ear up to the speaker. That's not really an issue in general and probably way less expensive than fully disconnecting the pre-amp output somehow.


----------



## hagenhays

So my vali 2 is dead out the right channel. Ive tried my headphones out of other devices...check. I've also tried a different balanced tube...same lack of response.
Anyone have any experience with their vali2 going dead out a channel?
I sent out an email to schiit.
It's 15 mos old..within warranty. I hope i can exchange it.

Anyone have experience returning to schiit? I have 3 dacs and the vali2.
This is my first issue with their gear.

Thanks.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

hagenhays said:


> So my vali 2 is dead out the right channel. Ive tried my headphones out of other devices...check. I've also tried a different balanced tube...same lack of response.
> Anyone have any experience with their vali2 going dead out a channel?
> I sent out an email to schiit.
> It's 15 mos old..within warranty. I hope i can exchange it.
> ...


 
  
 I returned my Fulla 2 within the 15 day trial to upgrade to my current Mimby & Vali 2 and it was a hassle free process. I got my refund and they waived the restocking fee since I upgraded to the Mimby. All I had to do was pay for the shipping back to them since it wasn't a defective product. I'm sure Schiit will take care of you since your Vali 2 is still in warranty. Schiit should get back to you on Monday if you just sent your email this evening.


----------



## hagenhays

#2743 of 2743
3 minutes ago
hagenhays
Got a prompt email from Nick.
He asked if I had checked my 1/8 to 1/4 adapter plug. Which I had done. But it got me thinking maybe I should try another plug...voila!! Suddenly I have sound out of the right channel again.
All is well in the headphone world again.

Thank you to schiit for responding so quickly and on a Sunday no less.
##noreturnhere


----------



## Jacobh

My 6SN7 adapter finally came. I'm getting a hum noticeable on both channels (slightly louder on the left). The hum is the same volume regardless of how i set the volume pot (including all the way down). It's not noticeable using low gain on my high impedance headphones, but is on both gain settings with lower impedance ones. 

Is this normal? It happens with nothing but power connected so maybe a 60hz hum. Would this be more likely an issue with the tube or the amplifier? I haven't noticed this with any other tube. I paid for the low noise and microphonics option so I guess I should contact the seller?


----------



## r2muchstuff

Listening with this currently:
  


 r2


----------



## Jacobh

Is that a 6F8G -> 6SN7 adapter on a 6SN7 -> 6922 adapter on a socket saver? I think you could get a 6F8G -> 6922 but I guess that wouldn't be as fun 

My 325s had too much hum with the 6SN7 I tried, but it sounded nice with HD580s.


----------



## r2muchstuff

jacobh said:


> Is that a 6F8G -> 6SN7 adapter on a 6SN7 -> 6922 adapter on a socket saver? I think you could get a 6F8G -> 6922 but I guess that wouldn't be as fun
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes.
 Less is more but, that is what I had on hand.
 No noise at all with the 325e and 6SN7s I have tried.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## JediMa70

I've to amps, one of the two is a Vali 2, I want to boost the tubey  sound of the Vali to make it sound really different from the other one, 
 Reading this topic, I've seen many amazing tubes and combinations, considering that I'm not a technician , I want to be careful, what should I buy to get that  most tubey sound ?


----------



## Jacobh

r2muchstuff said:


> Yes.
> Less is more but, that is what I had on hand.
> No noise at all with the 325e and 6SN7s I have tried.
> 
> ...




How does it sound?

As some other people have mentioned, my Vali 2 has a 60hz hum I can hear with more efficient headphones on high gain (so not a major issue in real world usage). With the 6SN7 tube it was noticeable on my less efficient headphones (on both gain settings) and unlistenable on my Grados. 

Hopefully it was just a bad tube (I'm waiting on my replacement). Maybe it's a slightly out of spec capacitor in the power supply or power filtering on the board letting hum through. The 6SN7 should have lower gain than the other tubes I have, so any hum from the power supply being amplified should not be quieter with that tube. If the replacement has the same problem, then I'm guessing the tubes are picking up the hum via the air. The 6SN7 is by far the largest tube so maybe that's why it's the loudest. The other tubes are quiet enough that it's hard to tell which is louder/softer, but the 5670 (shortest tubes) might be the quietest. When my new tube arrives I'll also try with some make shift shielding around it and see if that helps.


----------



## Jacobh

jedima70 said:


> I've to amps, one of the two is a Vali 2, I want to boost the tubey  sound of the Vali to make it sound really different from the other one,
> Reading this topic, I've seen many amazing tubes and combinations, considering that I'm not a technician , I want to be careful, what should I buy to get that  most tubey sound ?




Tubes (and solid state) can all sound different so it's hard to know what you mean by "tubey" sound. If you say what other type of amp you have you it might help with recommendations. 

Everyone also hears differently and if you are expecting a tube to change the entire sound signature of the amp you might have too high expectations. At least for me, the differences are more subtle then people's writing would have you believe, but it's still fun trying new tubes out and seeing if I can hear a difference. 

Of the tubes I've tried I think I liked the GE 5670w the most, but I couldn't tell you why. It might just be that it glows the brightest, but I just like the way it sounds. It's about $5 for the tube and another $10-$15 for an appropriate adapter.


----------



## JediMa70

jacobh said:


> Tubes (and solid state) can all sound different so it's hard to know what you mean by "tubey" sound. If you say what other type of amp you have you it might help with recommendations.
> 
> Everyone also hears differently and if you are expecting a tube to change the entire sound signature of the amp you might have too high expectations. At least for me, the differences are more subtle then people's writing would have you believe, but it's still fun trying new tubes out and seeing if I can hear a difference.
> 
> Of the tubes I've tried I think I liked the GE 5670w the most, but I couldn't tell you why. It might just be that it glows the brightest, but I just like the way it sounds. It's about $5 for the tube and another $10-$15 for an appropriate adapter.


 
  I've a Meier Corda Jazz, I understand what you mean bout "not changing the whole sound signature" and it's reasonable, let's say that I want to make it sounds more different in the "possible" range . At the moment I'm using a Electro Harmonix 6922 / E88CC Gold pin


----------



## Cafofo

Hi guys !
  
 Got mine this week. Really happy to use with my HD598 ( HD600/650 coming soon ... ) ! But my first bad impresion was about the tube. I have a really damn hum/noise in low/high gain. I can hear it easier when I use my SE215(of course....) with the stock tube. Fortunately I bought an Electro-Harmonix 6922 Gold and one JJ E88CC Gold. I didn't want to use any of them right now BUT both eliminates all noise/hum that I got with the stock Canadian tube ! That happened also with you guys ?


----------



## JediMa70

cafofo said:


> Hi guys !
> 
> Got mine this week. Really happy to use with my HD598 ( HD600/650 coming soon ... ) ! But my first bad impresion was about the tube. I have a really damn hum/noise in low/high gain. I can hear it easier when I use my SE215(of course....) with the stock tube. Fortunately I bought an Electro-Harmonix 6922 Gold and one JJ E88CC Gold. I didn't want to use any of them right now BUT both eliminates all noise/hum that I got with the stock Canadian tube ! That happened also with you guys ?


 
 No I didn't have any noise both with stock tube or with Electro Harmonix 6922 / E88CC Gold pin


----------



## Jacobh

I have a 60hz hum easily audible in high gain with most of the tubes I've tried on my Grados.  I can barely hear it if I really try on low gain, but it wouldn't impact listening.  With my 300ohm Sennheisers and a Fostex T50RP, I can barely hear it on high gain with a few tubes, but not at all on others.
  
 I had one tube that was really bad with any headphones, and I expect that was a bad tube.  Others have reported a slight hum as well, so I think the amp is somewhat sensitive to noisy power or the tubes themselves can just pick up EFI.  It's probably not noticeable in most cases, unless you have a bad tube or really sensitive headphones.  In your case, it sounds most likely just a bad tube.


----------



## Jacobh

Out of curiosity, do your 6S7N -> 6922 adapter pins fit all the way into your socket saver?  The pins on mine are too long to fit completely into the socket saver I have, so there is a gap between the adpater and saver with the pins visible.  It's making a good connection, the pins are just longer than the sockets are deep.


----------



## r2muchstuff

jacobh said:


> Out of curiosity, do your 6S7N -> 6922 adapter pins fit all the way into your socket saver?  The pins on mine are too long to fit completely into the socket saver I have, so there is a gap between the adpater and saver with the pins visible.  It's making a good connection, the pins are just longer than the sockets are deep.


 

 They do not, approximately 1/8 inch exposed between the adapter and the socket savers.  I have at least 2 versions of savers and adapters and all are the same.  It has not created any problems or issues.
  
 r2


----------



## Jacobh

Well my new 6SN7 came and it's a little quieter (probably usable in low gain with grados), but it still hums noticeably. I tried various make-shift shielding attempts so it's definitely coming from the amp. 

I'm not sure if it's my power (although it happens at my office at well), a bad cap, or just the design of the amp. None of my other audio equipment (including another hybrid amp) have a hum either. Schiit seemed to indicate some level tube hum is normal, but a lot of people have said theirs is dead quiet. 

Maybe next time I order something from Schiit I'll add an extra Vali wall wart, but the shipping by itself isn't worthwhile just to test out if it might make a difference.


----------



## volly

I wouldn't say my vali2 is dead quiet. As for my asgard2, that thing is dead quiet. 

The wall wart that comes with the vali 2 is actually quite good compared to other wall warts i have laying around.

Perhaps, letting the tube settle in a bit might help.

Glhf.


----------



## Jacobh

volly said:


> I wouldn't say my vali2 is dead quiet. As for my asgard2, that thing is dead quiet.
> 
> The wall wart that comes with the vali 2 is actually quite good compared to other wall warts i have laying around.
> 
> ...


 
  
 There is some hiss if I turn the volume way up depending on the gain setting / headphone combination, but I'd never listen that loud.  This is a constant volume 60hz hum that is only impacted by the gain switch and not the volume pot.  Thanks for the tip, but it happens with all tubes I've tried including several with quite a few hours on them.  I don't doubt the wall wart is high quality, but there still could be some variation in the wart or power filtering capacitors in the amp itself.  It's not a significant issue for most of my listening, so I just have to get over knowing it's there and trying to stop it


----------



## RiflemanFirst

I can only hear the humming with IEMs with high gain. Totally goes away in low gain. I believe the manual says this exact thing may happen. Can't hear the high gain humming at all with my HD598s or HD650s.


----------



## Jacobh

Seems like it's just the nature of the amp then and either I'm more sensitive to it or mine is just one the louder side of the normal range.  Thanks for providing a data point!


----------



## RiflemanFirst

jacobh said:


> Seems like it's just the nature of the amp then and either I'm more sensitive to it or mine is just one the louder side of the normal range.  Thanks for providing a data point!


 
  
 I'd say so. Here's the page I was talking about from the manual.


----------



## Jacobh

Thanks.  This is a 60hz hum, not a hiss, but maybe I'm using the terms wrong.  I am using low gain on all my headphones, so it's not a problem except on my Grados with some tubes (where the hum is noticeable on low gain).


----------



## r2muchstuff

The Vali 2 manual states:
  
*" 5 Gain switch.  *Select HI or LO gain, depending on what sounds best to you. If you hear hiss or don’t have enough volume control range, use LO gain. "
  




  
 Humming or specifically a 60hz noise is not hiss, hiss is the noise floor of the amp and or tube.  A generally noticeable 60hz hum in a Vali 2 is not normal and is either an electrical issue of some sort or a ground loop issue or a bad tube or a defective amp.  Or expecting sensitive IEMs to be OK with a tube equipped  amp.
  
 I would rule out all of these possibilities that I could and then contact Schiit.
  
 My Vali 2 only hums with a suspect/bad tube or if I push things by trying to use low ohm IEMs on high gain.  I really never use this amp with IEMs so not an issue for me.   Now, a DarkVoice 336 is another story, very tube picky without some mods.  Even high ohm Beyerdynamics are unusable with the wrong (otherwise good) tube.
  
 I use, among others, a Grado 325e with the Vali 2 on low gain and generally have a 6SN7 tube installed.  No noise issues.
  
 IMHO & JMTC,
  
 r2


----------



## Jacobh

Thanks everyone for all the data points.  
  
 On my Grado 325 (original) with two new 6SN7 tubes (not NOS) it's obvious on high gain.  Going back in listening to all my tubes, it's there on all of them but I wouldn't have noticed it for most of them (maybe a handful on high gain with Grados).  I can hear it in a quiet room on low gain if I listen very carefully and press the cups against my ears.  I don't ever listen like this, so it's not a problem even with the Grados.
  
 I purchased the amp used, so it's not under warranty.  I did contact Schiit to see if they could answer questions and they basically said from what I'm describing, some low level hum with sensitive headphones like Grado's is expected.  This doesn't really impact my listening in any practical way, so I'm going to just not worry about it at this time.  
  
 I might just be overly sensitive, maybe I got a borderline bad capacitor in the power filtering, or maybe the power here is really that bad.  It's not worth spending $100 on an isolation transformer, $30 (shipped) on a new wall-wart, or whatever an out of warranty repair would be since it may not help and wouldn't have a meaningful impact on my listening at this point.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

Just out of curiosity, how far can the Vali 2 go in terms of adequately driving headphones? I guess what I'm really asking is, has anyone found a set of cans that the Vali 2 couldn't keep up with? I'm definitely enjoying the Vali 2 with my HD650s (and other current headphones) and was wondering if I'm missing out on much compared to a Jotunheim or other higher end & more powerful amps.
  
 I just found out that we will be getting a bonus this month at work and I'm doing my best not to get taken away by upgrade-itis again. I figured the Vali 2 is probably more than powerful enough except for some of the most bleeding edge cans, but I really don't have anything else to compare to right now. The HD650s are the most high end set of cans I've ever bought or listened to. Any input/advice would be appreciated!


----------



## HOWIE13

riflemanfirst said:


> Just out of curiosity, how far can the Vali 2 go in terms of adequately driving headphones? I guess what I'm really asking is, has anyone found a set of cans that the Vali 2 couldn't keep up with? I'm definitely enjoying the Vali 2 with my HD650s (and other current headphones) and was wondering if I'm missing out on much compared to a Jotunheim or other higher end & more powerful amps.
> 
> I just found out that we will be getting a bonus this month at work and I'm doing my best not to get taken away by upgrade-itis again. I figured the Vali 2 is probably more than powerful enough except for some of the most bleeding edge cans, but I really don't have anything else to compare to right now. The HD650s are the most high end set of cans I've ever bought or listened to. Any input/advice would be appreciated!


 
 Some find the more power the better, others disagree once a certain threshold is reached.
  
 For me Vali2 has more than enough power for the HD650 but if you really want to know for sure what's best for you I would take advantage of Schiit's excellent and helpful return policy and try the Jotunheim for yourself-then you can let us know.


----------



## RickB

riflemanfirst said:


> Just out of curiosity, how far can the Vali 2 go in terms of adequately driving headphones? I guess what I'm really asking is, has anyone found a set of cans that the Vali 2 couldn't keep up with? I'm definitely enjoying the Vali 2 with my HD650s (and other current headphones) and was wondering if I'm missing out on much compared to a Jotunheim or other higher end & more powerful amps.
> 
> I just found out that we will be getting a bonus this month at work and I'm doing my best not to get taken away by upgrade-itis again. I figured the Vali 2 is probably more than powerful enough except for some of the most bleeding edge cans, but I really don't have anything else to compare to right now. The HD650s are the most high end set of cans I've ever bought or listened to. Any input/advice would be appreciated!


 
  
 It would probably* have trouble with the Hifiman HE-6.
  
 *I only say "probably" because I have no practical experience with this can.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

I guess I can just keep buying more headphones over time and if/when I finally get some that need more power, I can buy a different amp. I would like to try running my HD650s on a balanced cable, but not sure if its worth spending $400+ on a Jotunheim for just that alone. That could also lead down a much more expensive "which cable sounds better" rabbit hole as well.


----------



## HOWIE13

@RiflemanFirst
  
 Just a thought, but having a good solid state amp like Jotunheim to compliment your tube Vali2 would not be over extravagant, finances allowing. They will have different sound signatures and would give you lots of choices to tweak your sound as you try new headphones in the future.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

howie13 said:


> @RiflemanFirst
> 
> Just a thought, but having a solid state amp like Jotunheim to compliment your tube Vali2 would not be over extravagant, finances allowing. They will have different sound signatures and would give you lots of choices to tweak your sound as you try new headphones in the future.


 
  
 Fair point. If I get the Jotunheim, I can save a little money and use my Mimby as a DAC instead of the $100 extra add-in option as well. Then it would be a strict comparison of amps using the same DAC. Still deciding on what to do here. The Jotunheim is definitely an attractive option...


----------



## HOWIE13

riflemanfirst said:


> Fair point. If I get the Jotunheim, I can save a little money and use my Mimby as a DAC instead of the $100 extra add-in option as well. Then it would be a strict comparison of amps using the same DAC. Still deciding on what to do here. The Jotunheim is definitely an attractive option...


 
 I also have Mimby-works very well with all my kit- great sounding DAC. As you like the Schiit sound it does make sense to try their complimentary products.


----------



## Jacobh

riflemanfirst said:


> Just out of curiosity, how far can the Vali 2 go in terms of adequately driving headphones? I guess what I'm really asking is, has anyone found a set of cans that the Vali 2 couldn't keep up with? I'm definitely enjoying the Vali 2 with my HD650s (and other current headphones) and was wondering if I'm missing out on much compared to a Jotunheim or other higher end & more powerful amps.
> 
> I just found out that we will be getting a bonus this month at work and I'm doing my best not to get taken away by upgrade-itis again. I figured the Vali 2 is probably more than powerful enough except for some of the most bleeding edge cans, but I really don't have anything else to compare to right now. The HD650s are the most high end set of cans I've ever bought or listened to. Any input/advice would be appreciated!




I just got a Valhalla 2 because I needed to satisfy my curiousity about how an OTL amp drives Senns compared to a hybrid. I've only listened for a few hours, so my opinion may change over time, but the Vali 2 with a 6SN7 tube holds up very well against a stock Valhalla 2. 

I have been doing some volume matched A/B testing (instant switching by splitting my DAC output, sending both headphone outs to a SYS, and using a RCA to 3.5 jack to plug my headphones into the output of the SYS). With HD6xx and HD580, both amps were easily distinguishable from a SMSL 793 II. Without knowing what the amps were ahead of time I had a 90%+ rate of liking the Vali and Valhalla over the SMSL. 

Things got trickier between the Vali and the Valhalla. They definitely do sound different, but it would be hard to say one is strictly better than the other. I picked the Valhalla about 60% of the time and my wife chose the Vali at about the same rate. On some songs it was easier to hear a difference, but on others I had to make sure the switch was actually doing anything. 

If I had to describe the difference, to me the Valhalla has a lower noise floor, creates more of a sense of space around instruments, and has slightly better bass extension. The Vali (with the 6SN7) was a little bit sharper in the treble and had a bit more impact in the mid bass. My wife enjoyed this slightly "fuller" sound, but I thought it sounded a bit more slow or congested. I can't comment on any of the longer term listening differences (e.g. is one more fatiguing over time) or what different tubes in the Valhalla might do to its sound. The differences were subtle, not night and day to me. 

The rest of my system could be a bottleneck, but from a pure sound perspective the Vali (with a good tube) definitely holds it own and has some other advantages. It's more flexible with low impedance headphones, it's easier/cheaper to tube roll, is much smaller, runs a lot cooler, and costs half as much. I think for most people the Vali would be a better bang for the buck and some people would probably like it more irrespective of price. 

That being said the Valhalla is a significantly more premium product in both look and feel. The volume knob alone is a huge improvement, and the Vali almost feels like a toy in comparison. The power section on the Valhalla is clearly better, the noise floor was lower for me, and it puts out more power into high impedance loads. I also seem to have a slight preference for its sound signature. For other people's systems and ears the differences may be more or less significant. Overall, it's still an impressive product at a competitive price.

My plan was to sell which ever I liked less (or the Valhalla if I couldn't tell the difference), but I think I may wind up keeping both and selling some other gear instead.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

jacobh said:


> I just got a Valhalla 2 because I needed to satisfy my curiousity about how an OTL amp drives Senns compared to a hybrid. I've only listened for a few hours, so my opinion may change over time, but the Vali 2 with a 6SN7 tube holds up very well against a stock Valhalla 2.
> 
> ...
> 
> My plan was to sell which ever I liked less (or the Valhalla if I couldn't tell the difference), but I think I may wind up keeping both and selling some other gear instead.


 
  
 Thanks for sharing. Based on what I've read so far from you and many others, the less expensive Schiit amps seem hold their own very well against the higher end models.


----------



## volly

jacobh said:


> I just got a Valhalla 2 because I needed to satisfy my curiousity about how an OTL amp drives Senns compared to a hybrid. I've only listened for a few hours, so my opinion may change over time, but the Vali 2 with a 6SN7 tube holds up very well against a stock Valhalla 2.
> 
> I have been doing some volume matched A/B testing (instant switching by splitting my DAC output, sending both headphone outs to a SYS, and using a RCA to 3.5 jack to plug my headphones into the output of the SYS). With HD6xx and HD580, both amps were easily distinguishable from a SMSL 793 II. Without knowing what the amps were ahead of time I had a 90%+ rate of liking the Vali and Valhalla over the SMSL.
> 
> ...


 
 Very informative comparison, I have the Vali 2 (6ns7) and the Asgard 2 in my audio rotation all the time.
  
 Both amps I consider will never be sold off, they both offer me great audio. As for the Vali 2, I've had this amp since launch day and I've been nothing but pleased with this amp. 
  
 When comparing the A2 to the Vali 2 is a hard discussion, because I want to say that the A2 is superior in every way to the Vali 2 but that's really not the case. Yes, the A2 is a blacker background and dead silent but I can forgive that on the Vali 2 when you have the right tube with the right music playing, the Vali 2 is a gorgeous pocket rocket willing to flirt with your ear drums while perhaps showing a few blemishes here and there. Where the A2 presents everything, everywhere at every time, just right! Both have plenty of single-ended power for my headphones.
  
 A side note, both Schiit amps have been running solidly since date of purchase. Stating that, I've recently purchased a cheap tube amp off eBay for my Home Theatre which only lasted less than a month before going up in a puff of white smoke! So as far as reliability, these Schiit amps have served me very well! 
  
 If Schiit were to show case a new hybrid tube amp named the Asgard 3 or Vali 3, then I would be lining up to buy it! (Schiit, sneak it in between the Asgard 2 and Valhalla 2 lineup!)
  
 hfhf.


----------



## Tuneslover

riflemanfirst said:


> Just out of curiosity, how far can the Vali 2 go in terms of adequately driving headphones? I guess what I'm really asking is, has anyone found a set of cans that the Vali 2 couldn't keep up with? I'm definitely enjoying the Vali 2 with my HD650s (and other current headphones) and was wondering if I'm missing out on much compared to a Jotunheim or other higher end & more powerful amps.
> 
> I just found out that we will be getting a bonus this month at work and I'm doing my best not to get taken away by upgrade-itis again. I figured the Vali 2 is probably more than powerful enough except for some of the most bleeding edge cans, but I really don't have anything else to compare to right now. The HD650s are the most high end set of cans I've ever bought or listened to. Any input/advice would be appreciated!


 
 I own both the Jotunheim (with Bimby) and Vali 2 (with Modi MB) and enjoy how the HD650 sounds with both.  If I had to choose though I prefer the HD650 with the Jotunheim combo for the terrific synergy.  The Vali 2 has plenty of power to drive the 650's but the Jotunheim seems more effortless and brings out the quality of these headphones better to me.  By contrast the HD650 paired with the Vali 2 is a bit darker sounding to me.  I prefer the HE500 and Vali 2 combination.
  
 Although I do like the Vali 2, I am considering replacing it with the Ember 2 due to this amp's flexibility.


----------



## Jacobh

riflemanfirst said:


> Thanks for sharing. Based on what I've read so far from you and many others, the less expensive Schiit amps seem hold their own very well against the higher end models.




I'm not all that confident I could tell them apart if I wasn't doing an a/b switch. I do believe someone with better ears or a better source probably could. The differences were there, but definitely subtle.


----------



## TooFrank

I am considering trying a small tube amp like the Vali 2. I'm mostly using grados and I've read that the Grado RA1 amp is really crappy and that people should really invest in better amps. I am relatively new to amps, have the RA1 which I like (with Grado gh2 and gs2ke). Any advice on this please? Is it worth the effort with low impedance hps? Many thanks


----------



## Faber65

toofrank said:


> I am considering trying a small tube amp like the Vali 2. I'm mostly using grados and I've read that the Grado RA1 amp is really crappy and that people should really invest in better amps. I am relatively new to amps, have the RA1 which I like (with Grado gh2 and gs2ke). Any advice on this please? Is it worth the effort with low impedance hps? Many thanks




I have never tried the RA1, therefore I have no opinion on that amp.
But I have a question for you: if you like the RA1 sound signature, why do you want to spend money (not an investment) to replace it?
In any case my suggestion is always the same: regardless what you read on the blogs, you have to trust in your ears only. 
Try as many different amps as you can in your budget price range, before taking a decision. 
And do it with your favorite music.


----------



## Jacobh

I think the RA-1 gets a bad rap since it's a very simple circuit with basic components in a fancy box. Objectively speaking, it doesn't measure as well as a lot of amps that are less expensive. 

I've never heard a real RA-1, but I built my own clone using better electrical components. I used it at work for a long time and thought it sounded good with Grados. I never used it much with other headphones. Just because it's simple doesn't mean you won't like how it sounds. 

I'd agree with Faber65 no need to spend on another amp if you are happy with what you have. If you do really want to try a hybrid tube amp, then the Vali 2 is a good sounding and affordable choice. It is not a particularly "tubey" sounding amp however and my specific unit has some low level hum with my Grado sr60 and 325 even on low gain. It wouldn't impact most normal listening, and I may have an issue with mine as others have not reported this. 

For what it's worth I thought my old Musical Fidelity X-Can V2 (also a tube hybrid) always sounded particularly good with my Grados. Really depends on your ears.


----------



## Faber65

To my ears, the Vali2 works very well with many of my headphones, but what I like most is the possibility to change the sound signature by rolling the tubes.
I like it regardless the number of components that I can count in it's belly. 
As long as I like the sound, I don't mind so much how it does measure.
The day that I want to hear the sound of the measurements, I can simply plug in my O2.


----------



## Tuneslover

I'm a happy Vali 2 owner but have always been curious about the Project Ember. Ordered one yesterday.


----------



## rgmffn

tuneslover said:


> I'm a happy Vali 2 owner but have always been curious about the Project Ember. Ordered one yesterday.


 
 I'm in the same boat. I've been wanting to do this too. I wanna hear your comparisons.


----------



## Tuneslover

rgmffn said:


> I'm in the same boat. I've been wanting to do this too. I wanna hear your comparisons.


 
 Instead of having it shipped to Canada (where I'm from) I had it shipped to my uncle in the U.S.  My wife and I are travelling there to visit him in June and I'll bring it back with me then.  You'll have to be as patient as I will have to be before I can do a comparative assessment...LOL!


----------



## volly

Just picked up a nice set of Denon's, gonna give it a whirl on the old Vali 2!


----------



## TooFrank

jacobh said:


> I think the RA-1 gets a bad rap since it's a very simple circuit with basic components in a fancy box. Objectively speaking, it doesn't measure as well as a lot of amps that are less expensive.
> 
> I've never heard a real RA-1, but I built my own clone using better electrical components. I used it at work for a long time and thought it sounded good with Grados. I never used it much with other headphones. Just because it's simple doesn't mean you won't like how it sounds.
> 
> ...







faber65 said:


> I have never tried the RA1, therefore I have no opinion on that amp.
> But I have a question for you: if you like the RA1 sound signature, why do you want to spend money (not an investment) to replace it?
> In any case my suggestion is always the same: regardless what you read on the blogs, you have to trust in your ears only.
> Try as many different amps as you can in your budget price range, before taking a decision.
> And do it with your favorite music.




Many thanks to both of you for the wise words. I'm a newbie but I get the messageFor me it was just trying to get the impression of how a "tube" amp like Vali 2 would sound with low impedance hps like grados. Also I thought that tube rolling could be experimentally interesting....


----------



## Faber65

toofrank said:


> jacobh said:
> 
> 
> > I think the RA-1 gets a bad rap since it's a very simple circuit with basic components in a fancy box. Objectively speaking, it doesn't measure as well as a lot of amps that are less expensive.
> ...




Ok, if you want to do a tube rolling, get a Vali2 and welcome to the club.
Being an hybrid amp, the impedance of your headphones doesn't count as much as the OTL tube amps.
But again: find someone with a Vali2, go with your Grado and have a try. 
With mine it works fine.


----------



## JediMa70

I would like to start to roll tubes to play a bit with sound, I need a little help:
 do I need a socket saver? and if yes which one or ones are fine with it?
 some tube that sound different from the one i'm using at the moment (Electro Harmonix 6922 / E88CC Gold pin) ?
  
 any help is welcome
  
 ty


----------



## Jacobh

You do not need a socket saver unless you are trying to roll a tube that requires an adapter too large to fit into the opening.  If you were going to do a ton of tube rolling and didn't want to worry about wearing out the socket you could get one.  There are basically two kinds:

Cheap ones in a plastic enclosure.  You can get them for $2-$3 on ebay/amazon or from tubedepot.com.  
More expensive ones in a nice enclosure that are silicone weighted to reduce vibration.  These are ~$30 from TubeMonger.com
  
 Like many other things you will probably find different opinions, but if you aren't having any issues with vibration I would save your money and get the cheap ones.
  
 This thread has a lot of info if you read through it, and there is a Vali 2 tube roling thread with lots of commentary on different tubes.  Basically you have a huge variety to choose from and you only need one tube which is why the Vali is great for tube rolling. With no adapters you can run: 6922, 6DJ8, 7DJ8, 6N1P, 6H23P.  With a 6N3 adapter you can run: 5670, W396, 2C51, 6N3P.  With other adapters (and a socket saver) you can run: 6SN7, 6F8G.  I'm probably missing one or two variants.  
  
 How different tubes sound seems to be very individual.  I personally think the GE5670 tubes with an adpater are cheap, sound good, and one of the quietest tubes in my Vali 2.  Without an adapter I liked a JAN Phillips 6922 I had laying around from a different amp (and I didn't love that tube in that other amp).


----------



## Indigo Bob

Hello!
  
 I was wondering if someone could tell me how the Vali 2 handles IEM's?
  
 How is the background noise with an IEM?


----------



## JediMa70

jacobh said:


> You do not need a socket saver unless you are trying to roll a tube that requires an adapter too large to fit into the opening.  If you were going to do a ton of tube rolling and didn't want to worry about wearing out the socket you could get one.  There are basically two kinds:
> 
> Cheap ones in a plastic enclosure.  You can get them for $2-$3 on ebay/amazon or from tubedepot.com.
> More expensive ones in a nice enclosure that are silicone weighted to reduce vibration.  These are ~$30 from TubeMonger.com
> ...


 
 thank you!


----------



## Jacobh

indigo bob said:


> Hello!
> 
> I was wondering if someone could tell me how the Vali 2 handles IEM's?
> 
> How is the background noise with an IEM?




It's probably worth asking why do you want (a fairly powerful) amplifier for iems?

In my experience probably not the best. My unit may be atypical but I have a hum that is audible on low gain and no music playing with my Grado SR60s on every tube I've tried. It's not volume dependent, but I'd say it's still usable with many of them. With HD580s I don't notice it at all on low gain with most tubes. I would think most iems are more sensitive than the Grados and sitting right in your ear canals, so probably not the best for a tube or hybrid amp in general.


----------



## Indigo Bob

jacobh said:


> It's probably worth asking why do you want (a fairly powerful) amplifier for iems?
> 
> In my experience probably not the best. My unit may be atypical but I have a hum that is audible on low gain and no music playing with my Grado SR60s on every tube I've tried. It's not volume dependent, but I'd say it's still usable with many of them. With HD580s I don't notice it at all on low gain with most tubes. I would think most iems are more sensitive than the Grados and sitting right in your ear canals, so probably not the best for a tube or hybrid amp in general.


 

 I wouldn't say in general.
  
 Campfire Audio makes very good hybrid amps for IEM's and I have heard the Schiit Valhalla 2 does a very good job with IEM's.
  
 The point is to gain the advantages that come from tubes which solid states don't provide.
  
 If anyone has had direct experience with IEM's with their Valhalla's please let me know cuz I'm not going to base my decision of conjectures.


----------



## Jacobh

If you want to know for sure, just email info@schiit.com.  
  
 With the IEMs I have, the hum is louder than the Grados.
  
 The specs I see on Campfire's page shows their IEMs range from 1/3 to 1/2 the imepedance and from a sensitivity point they would be 4-8 times as loud with the same input as compared to the Grados.   So, in my experience it would not be a good fit for IEMs.
  
 The Valhalla is a different amp than the Vali (it's a OTL tube amp) and for me it's much quieter with all my headphones.  Since Campfire IEMs are very sensitive, you probably wouldn't have any problems getting adequate volume.  The bigger problem would be output impedance which for the Valhalla is 3.5ohms in low gain.  If you use the standard 8 to 1 ratio, you'd want a IEM with an impedance of about 28 ohms.  Some of the Campfire IEMs are in that ballpark, so it might sound OK.


----------



## Faber65

jacobh said:


> You do not need a socket saver unless you are trying to roll a tube that requires an adapter too large to fit into the opening.  If you were going to do a ton of tube rolling and didn't want to worry about wearing out the socket you could get one.  There are basically two kinds:
> 
> Cheap ones in a plastic enclosure.  You can get them for $2-$3 on ebay/amazon or from tubedepot.com.
> More expensive ones in a nice enclosure that are silicone weighted to reduce vibration.  These are ~$30 from TubeMonger.com
> ...




I agree completely.


----------



## JediMa70

Considering you are all expert about the Vali 2, what does it makes it better than LD 1 Little Dot MK2? It's a very honest question, cause I got the Vali 2 too but it's my first tube amp so I can't compare it with anything else


----------



## Jacobh

jedima70 said:


> Considering you are all expert about the Vali 2, what does it makes it better than LD 1 Little Dot MK2? It's a very honest question, cause I got the Vali 2 too but it's my first tube amp so I can't compare it with anything else




I have not heard the Little Dot MKII so I can't say one is better than the other. You can look at the differences between them though:

The Little Dot MKII is an otl amp where the Vali 2 is a hybrid meaning a tube pre-amp for voltage gain and a solid state amp for current gain. OTL amps tend to have higher output impedance which essentially means it can have less control over bass when using it with low impedance headphones. Additionally, OTL amps will not put a lot of current into lower impedance loads so they are not great for driving low impedance and inefficient headphones (like planars). Hybrids put out the most power driving lower impedance headphones. 

In terms of tubes, the Vali only has one tube where the MKII has 2 drivers (preamp) and 2 output tubes. So with the Vali you have fewer tubes to replace and you don't have to worry about matching sets. The Vali had a wall wart and I believe the MKII has a standard power cord with the transformer inside the amp. 

Both have pre-amp capabilities and multiple gain settings. Both generally get good reviews from the people who own them. 

The Vali 2 tends to be described as more of a solid state sounding amp with a little bit of tube flavor (with stock tubes). The Little Dot amps are more often described as "tubey" sounding. I think this probably means the Vali is a little more neutral where the Little Dots are warmer with a more lush or "gooey" mid range. 

Schiit is based in California so warranty service is a little easier and shipping speed faster if you live in the United States. Little Dot requires shipping the amp to China if you need service, but if you purchased from an authorized dealer it sounds like the representative (David) who handles service for North America is a good guy. 

Which is better almost certainly depends on your needs, headphones, and ears.


----------



## JediMa70

jacobh said:


> I have not heard the Little Dot MKII so I can't say one is better than the other. You can look at the differences between them though:
> 
> The Little Dot MKII is an otl amp where the Vali 2 is a hybrid meaning a tube pre-amp for voltage gain and a solid state amp for current gain. OTL amps tend to have higher output impedance which essentially means it can have less control over bass when using it with low impedance headphones. Additionally, OTL amps will not put a lot of current into lower impedance loads so they are not great for driving low impedance and inefficient headphones (like planars). Hybrids put out the most power driving lower impedance headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 Excellent explanation, about headphones, i have HD600 , X2 and AKG K702 a solid sate Meier Corda Jazz and a Valii 2 that sounds very nice but not so different from the Meier, that's why I was wondering if it was better to replace it with a LD 1 that i can buy from Amazon italy and have it shipped at home in 2 days
 I live in italy


----------



## Jacobh

I believe the LD1 is also a hybrid amp. The MKII and MKIII are OTL. You might want to check out the LD 1 thread for more impressions on how that sound compared to other amps. Even though it's a hybrid, I've heard it's a warmer sound. In my personal experience the differences between amps can be noticeable, but relatively subtle. Others may say it's more dramatic. I think Schiit products have decent resale value (particularly in Europe), so you could always try the LD and sell whichever you don't like. 

I don't think the sellers on Amazon in the US are authorized sellers, so I don't know how the warranty is. 

The X2 are only 30 ohm impedance, but they are efficient so you would probably ok with an OTL, but it may not be the best pairing. Some say the Senns do best with an OTL amp. If you are looking for something different the MKII is the most different technically speaking, but that doesn't always translate into sound.


----------



## JediMa70

jacobh said:


> I believe the LD1 is also a hybrid amp. The MKII and MKIII are OTL. You might want to check out the LD 1 thread for more impressions on how that sound compared to other amps. Even though it's a hybrid, I've heard it's a warmer sound. In my personal experience the differences between amps can be noticeable, but relatively subtle. Others may say it's more dramatic. I think Schiit products have decent resale value (particularly in Europe), so you could always try the LD and sell whichever you don't like.
> 
> I don't think the sellers on Amazon in the US are authorized sellers, so I don't know how the warranty is.
> 
> The X2 are only 30 ohm impedance, but they are efficient so you would probably ok with an OTL, but it may not be the best pairing. Some say the Senns do best with an OTL amp. If you are looking for something different the MKII is the most different technically speaking, but that doesn't always translate into sound.



This is extremely helpful, if I consider all your informations, it seems more logical to wait, get a better budget and make a change for the good! All this fuzz started because massdrop put for sale a Darkvoice, I was tempted because all reviews say clearly that's really tube.. But also full of flaws and poorly build. 
Thanks a lot you really helped me


----------



## Faber65

jedima70 said:


> jacobh said:
> 
> 
> > I believe the LD1 is also a hybrid amp. The MKII and MKIII are OTL. You might want to check out the LD 1 thread for more impressions on how that sound compared to other amps. Even though it's a hybrid, I've heard it's a warmer sound. In my personal experience the differences between amps can be noticeable, but relatively subtle. Others may say it's more dramatic. I think Schiit products have decent resale value (particularly in Europe), so you could always try the LD and sell whichever you don't like.
> ...




Ciao JediMa70,

In making your choice, you may need to consider that the Little Dot Mk2 has two couple of tubes. 
If you want to do some tube rolling, then you have to buy couples of tubes with the same electric characteristics. 
And it will result in a sensible increase of the ownership costs. 
Another important factor is the compatibility of your headphones collection with the OTL amps, and this is already mentioned.
Last, but not least, the product support. Schiit has a distributor in Italy, while I am not sure about Little Dot and for sure you have nothing for the Bottleneck. 
I assume that you are Italian, so feel free to contact me directly in case you want to talk by using your mother language. 

Saluti
Fabrizio


----------



## JediMa70

Faber65 said:


> Ciao JediMa70,
> 
> In making your choice, you may need to consider that the Little Dot Mk2 has two couple of tubes.
> If you want to do some tube rolling, then you have to buy couples of tubes with the same electric characteristics.
> ...



Fatto graze, ciao


----------



## JediMa70

So I wonder what's a good tube AMP , NOT otl and that sounds Tubey and better than the Vali 2 , that actually i dont like anymore


----------



## Jacobh

JediMa70 said:


> So I wonder what's a good tube AMP , NOT otl and that sounds Tubey and better than the Vali 2 , that actually i dont like anymore



Zeos seems to think the Little Dot MKI+ sounds "tubey" for what that is worth:  

It's a hybrid amp that uses 2 6J1 tubes.  There is a thread on here about it, so maybe that's what you want.  

Did you try new tubes in your Vali 2?


----------



## JediMa70

I did, it didn't change much.. I've used few.
I've watched that video time ago, but he's also over enthusiastic about darkvoice but then reviews are not exactly happy about the build quality. 
I like LD I at any level,design, size, just 2 tubes to roll (not a big cash) what It counts if it actually sounds better than a valii2 and how can be an issue that's an OTL. I've searched for a straight comparison between LD1 and Vali 2.. didnt' find anything ok


----------



## Jacobh

JediMa70 said:


> I did, it didn't change much.. I've used few.
> I've watched that video time ago, but he's also over enthusiastic about darkvoice but then reviews are not exactly happy about the build quality.
> I like LD I at any level,design, size, just 2 tubes to roll (not a big cash) what It counts if it actually sounds better than a valii2 and how can be an issue that's an OTL. I've searched for a straight comparison between LD1 and Vali 2.. didnt' find anything ok



If it is not clear, Little Dot makes multiple amps.  The MKI+ is a hybrid.  The MKII and MKIII are OTL.  I've not heard any of them so I can't comment on how it sounds compared to a Vali 2.

Unfortunately, the only way you'd know for sure is try it out yourself.


----------



## JediMa70

Jacobh said:


> If it is not clear, Little Dot makes multiple amps.  The MKI+ is a hybrid.  The MKII and MKIII are OTL.  I've not heard any of them so I can't comment on how it sounds compared to a Vali 2.
> 
> Unfortunately, the only way you'd know for sure is try it out yourself.


Yes I noticed which means that LD I+ is fine with X2 and probably AKG k702 while the MKIII better for the HD600 ...


----------



## juanix

Just bought a Vali 2. What are the recommended tubes to get for it? I plan to use it with my TH-900s and M1060s.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

IFI are $99 a pair if memory serves and work great with mj2. I assume one would do wonders with Vali 2.


----------



## Jacobh

bosiemoncrieff said:


> IFI are $99 a pair if memory serves and work great with mj2. I assume one would do wonders with Vali 2.



You could also buy an adapter on eBay for about $15 and a GE 5670w for about $7 shipped.  The nice thing about that is you can use any variety 5670 since you aren't supposed to use the ifi adapter separately.

The thread has tons of info and there is also a dedicated tube rolling thread.


----------



## cbl117

Custom Schiit Maple Rack!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

ya vali 2/mimby is king of mid-fi in terms of price/performance.


----------



## NXTk

Recently there is a decent hum on my Vali 2. I've tried to move it away from electronics, disconnect source, doesn't help, the hum is not related to the volume level knob but to the gain switch, high gain high intensity hum, low gain low hum. Is that a faulty tube? Because i don't have a spare one to check yet, it started after a month of using the amp 24\7. Currently using it with dt880 250ohm low gain loud music else i can hear the hum around 40-50 hz amplitude.


----------



## Jacobh (May 13, 2017)

NXTk said:


> Recently there is a decent hum on my Vali 2. I've tried to move it away from electronics, disconnect source, doesn't help, the hum is not related to the volume level knob but to the gain switch, high gain high intensity hum, low gain low hum. Is that a faulty tube? Because i don't have a spare one to check yet, it started after a month of using the amp 24\7. Currently using it with dt880 250ohm low gain loud music else i can hear the hum around 40-50 hz amplitude.



I have 60hz hum that is there with every tube I've tried. Some tubes i need to have it on high gain and use low impedance, high efficiency headphones to hear it, others it's easily audible on low gain with less efficient headphones. Not sure if it's inherent to the design, a bad cap in the wall wart (although it's a/c out), or an issue with the caps or voltage regulators in the amp itself.  Others have reported similar, but that seems the exception. Schiit tech support claimed it was normal when o contacted them and discouraged me from sending it back since I am not under warranty. For most tube/ headphone combinations it's not a major issue, so I decided to live with it and got an impedance adapter for my low impedance headphones.

Swapping to another tube might help as I've found some tubes are definitely quieter than others. You could also try an impedance adapter to lower the noise floor.


----------



## thebearded1

Jacobh said:


> Thanks everyone for all the data points.
> 
> On my Grado 325 (original) with two new 6SN7 tubes (not NOS) it's obvious on high gain.  Going back in listening to all my tubes, it's there on all of them but I wouldn't have noticed it for most of them (maybe a handful on high gain with Grados).  I can hear it in a quiet room on low gain if I listen very carefully and press the cups against my ears.  I don't ever listen like this, so it's not a problem even with the Grados.
> 
> ...


When I first turned on my Vali2 with stock tube, I also heard a hum, mostly out of the right channel of my AKG k712s.  I contacted Schiit about it, and they sent me a replacement tube; I tested the amp with no connections save the HP and in various outlets and heard the hum regardless of position of the volume POT.  By the time I received the replacement tube, the hum dissipated on it's own.  My guess is, the stock tubes are a bit on the cheap side and require burn in.  (Actually, I believe all tubes need this to some degree.)  To compare, I purchased a National tube from Upscale Audio and heard no hum out of it.  That's my two-cents for you.


----------



## Jacobh

Appreciate your experiences, but I've tried 10+ tubes and all of them exhibit at least some level of hum. 

I wound up getting a 75ohm impedance adapter which lets me use pretty much all my headphones without it being an issue with normal listening. I have not noticed any decrease in sound quality with the adapter.


----------



## DataTutashxia

Received my Vali 2 today, working for 4 hours straight now with stock tube, no hum, all good. Enjoying quite much with HD700.


----------



## Wonc

I prefered valhalla 2 over vali 2.

Soundstage seemed larger to me. had more weight in the sound as well.

but hated its heatings.


----------



## chef8489

I am still contemplating this. I dont want a huge setup for my pc.  Trying to figure out if I need MQA for my pc as I do have mqa possibility with my portable setup.


----------



## coolcrew23

chef8489 said:


> I am still contemplating this. I dont want a huge setup for my pc.  Trying to figure out if I need MQA for my pc as I do have mqa possibility with my portable setup.



If you need MQA you can always go dragonfly black/red then connect to the amp. Works good with me. I use the vali 1 though.


----------



## Lucas_ob

Badfish5446 said:


> Yeah but using a single tube for both channels could be problematic if the triodes aren't in balance, something to take into consideration.  Schiit's topology may make this a moot point but we won't know until someone more familiar with electrical engineering chimes in


But some Little Dots also use a single tube


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

coolcrew23 said:


> If you need MQA you can always go dragonfly black/red then connect to the amp. Works good with me. I use the vali 1 though.



If you need MQA, you have too much audio nervosa for anything by Schiit. Get your 90k select diamond dac from MSB and hook it up to the orpheus successor and then worry for the next thirty years that maybe your power supply is too noisy


----------



## coolcrew23

bosiemoncrieff said:


> If you need MQA, you have too much audio nervosa for anything by Schiit. Get your 90k select diamond dac from MSB and hook it up to the orpheus successor and then worry for the next thirty years that maybe your power supply is too noisy




Actually love my schiit vali 1 for my headphones. Just hard to get them where i'm from, been wanting to upgrade even just to the vali 2 

Just find it cool my dragonfly can play mqa and i do think it sounds better than usual. I'm not really an audiophile but heck as long as i hear something better wuhoo to my ears haha!


----------



## Nanskie

probably you guys discussed this already but cant find the proper link, but I know im with the best people to get info with my newly purchased Vali 2. after setting up and burning it in almost 24 hrs, I finally plug in my source (LG V20/ CD player) and headphones (sennheiser HD598).
 my question is... how come when I plug in my sennheiser, the sound seems all separated. sounds like toe vocals are I am in a tunnel...echoes and appear or sounds far but the instruments are working fine. then when I plug in my grado sr80e, everything sounds all balanced or proper. what did I do wrong???


----------



## rnros

Nanskie said:


> probably you guys discussed this already but cant find the proper link, but I know im with the best people to get info with my newly purchased Vali 2. after setting up and burning it in almost 24 hrs, I finally plug in my source (LG V20/ CD player) and headphones (sennheiser HD598).
> my question is... how come when I plug in my sennheiser, the sound seems all separated. sounds like toe vocals are I am in a tunnel...echoes and appear or sounds far but the instruments are working fine. then when I plug in my grado sr80e, everything sounds all balanced or proper. what did I do wrong???



Well, if the Grado is OK then good chance it's not the amp. Check the earcup connections on the Senn and cable connection to amp. Could also be something internal with the Senn. If you have another cable for the Senn, try that also.


----------



## chef8489

Well my vali 2 shipped today and will be here tomorrow. Thursday paying for a pair of k7xx from a member and hopefully will be here next week. Untill then i will use my k533 pro. I also ordered a golden lion tube for it and it should be here friday or saturday. This should be a good start for desktop listening with my multibit.


----------



## JediMa70

Whatever I tried, replacing the original tube with few different ones, it doesn't sound tubey at atll...  I'm planning to replace it


----------



## Nanskie

Well, if the Grado is OK then good chance it's not the amp. Check the earcup connections on the Senn and cable connection to amp. Could also be something internal with the Senn. If you have another cable for the Senn, try that also.


rnros said:


> Well, if the Grado is OK then good chance it's not the amp. Check the earcup connections on the Senn and cable connection to amp. Could also be something internal with the Senn. If you have another cable for the Senn, try that also.



that's what I thought, but I also plugged my sennheiser to my oppo ha2 (forgot to mention) with no issues at all plus its way off, it doesn't sound right unlike when I heard my friend's vali2, so far Schiit did not contact me yet. will send back item in 24hrs if they don't contact me I guess...bummer


----------



## chef8489

Thought I would check interest inf I started a vali 2 tube pass and tuibe swap thread. If I got enough interest it would work like this. I would take a list of people interested. I would send an amount of tubes, probably 14 or so and you would keep them and the adapters for 7 days and try them out swapping the then you would pay priority mail and insurance to the next person on the list. and so forth till they came back to me. People could also post tubes they had in the thread and tubes they wanted to try and people could swap tubes. some groups of tubes I would include in the package are  so let me know if you would be interested and if so I will get everything ready and start a thread shortly. 
*Preliminary Tube List*
*
6DJ8 Group*
'59 Amperex Bugle Boy ECC88/6DJ8 'D' Getter
'61 Amperex/Hewlett Packard ECC88/6DJ8 Large 'O' Getter
'67 Amperex/USA Orange Globe 6DJ8/ECC88
'69 Siemens 6922/E88CC Silver Shield
'73 Philips SQ Heerlen 6922/E88CC
'73 Reflektor 6N23P DPGP ('68 and/or?)
'74 Reflektor 6N23P SS SWGP
'75 Voskhod 6N23P Gray Shield Plate Post
'78/79 ANOD 6N1P-EV
?'60's 6N1P Triple Mica Box Plate
? 6N5P

*5670 Group*
GE 5670
'69 or '70 Western Electric 396A
'75 & '83 or '86 Reflector 6N3P-E

*6SN7 Group*
'50s Sylvania 6SN7GTB
'50s Allen/Sylvania 6SN7GTB
?'50s Raytheon 6SN7GTB
'58/59 FOTON 6N8S
'50s MELZ 6N9S

? 6CG7
? 6SL7
? 6C8G
? Other Euro E88CC
? National 7DJ8
? Philips PCC88
? 6N26P


----------



## DomieMic65

Guys does anyone have ground loop problems with it's Vali 2?


----------



## chef8489

DomieMic65 said:


> Guys does anyone have ground loop problems with it's Vali 2?


Nope no issues with my vali 2


----------



## RickB

DomieMic65 said:


> Guys does anyone have ground loop problems with it's Vali 2?



One of the advantages of the Vali 2 is the two prong wall wart, much less (no?) chance of getting a ground loop.


----------



## chef8489

Those with the hd650 or hd6xx are you using high or low gain?


----------



## RickB

chef8489 said:


> Those with the hd650 or hd6xx are you using high or low gain?



I'm on low gain. I find that I listen at around 9 o'clock on the volume pot. High gain would be about 7 o'clock if I used it.


----------



## chef8489

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/vali-2-tube-pass-of-2017.855165/


----------



## DomieMic65

RickB said:


> One of the advantages of the Vali 2 is the two prong wall wart, much less (no?) chance of getting a ground loop.


So any idea what might be the buzz I get from the amp?
Regardless of tubes ..


----------



## RickB

DomieMic65 said:


> So any idea what might be the buzz I get from the amp?
> Regardless of tubes ..



Have you tried disconnecting the RCA input and the preamp output cable from the amp, do you still get a buzz?


----------



## chef8489

No idea. Most people I know dont get a buzz. I would contact schiit. Only time I get anything close to a buzz is when wearing iems on high gain and not sure I would call it a buzz.


----------



## DomieMic65

RickB said:


> Have you tried disconnecting the RCA input and the preamp output cable from the amp, do you still get a buzz?


It's the same. And also the buzz changes depentding on the tube!
With EH6CG7 is more bassy lihe a hum and with EH Gold pin 6922 more highly piched like a zzzz sound! Depending on the headphones and gain!
Also it changes it's loudness if I am standing close or away of the amp and when i am touching the chasey too!
With the EH 6922GP it is more audible in any case though...
It's like it receives a RF interraction



chef8489 said:


> No idea. Most people I know dont get a buzz. I would contact schiit. Only time I get anything close to a buzz is when wearing iems on high gain and not sure I would call it a buzz.



Yes may be this I should have done from the first time...

may be I should go to a friends place to see if the amp produces the same sounds there too


----------



## Tuneslover

DomieMic65 said:


> So any idea what might be the buzz I get from the amp?
> Regardless of tubes ..



Have you tried disconnecting your Vali2 from your current setup entirely and move it to another receptacle in another room?  Is it possible for you to only connect either a CD, DVD or BluRay player to your Vali2 thereby giving you the simplest component chain possible?  Doing so will hopefully eliminate your buzzing problem.  If it does eliminate the buzzing problem then re-introduce your DAC but use a coaxial/toslink connection from your source player to the DAC.  Again, hopefully your buzzing issue will be non-existent.  However if the buzzing returns then you might conclude that your DAC is the culprit.

In other words, start with the simplest audio chain possible and gradually re-introduce components to see if the latest change is causing the buzzing.  Try to identify the "culprit" in your audio chain and fix or replace that problem component.  Naturally if the buzzing still exists at your most basic connection (as I suggested at the beginning of this reply) then I would be inclined to conclude that your Vali2 might be the culprit.  At that point I would contact Schiit and discuss your the issue with them for assistance.


----------



## DomieMic65

Tuneslover said:


> Have you tried disconnecting your Vali2 from your current setup entirely and move it to another receptacle in another room?  Is it possible for you to only connect either a CD, DVD or BluRay player to your Vali2 thereby giving you the simplest component chain possible?  Doing so will hopefully eliminate your buzzing problem.  If it does eliminate the buzzing problem then re-introduce your DAC but use a coaxial/toslink connection from your source player to the DAC.  Again, hopefully your buzzing issue will be non-existent.  However if the buzzing returns then you might conclude that your DAC is the culprit.
> 
> In other words, start with the simplest audio chain possible and gradually re-introduce components to see if the latest change is causing the buzzing.  Try to identify the "culprit" in your audio chain and fix or replace that problem component.  Naturally if the buzzing still exists at your most basic connection (as I suggested at the beginning of this reply) then I would be inclined to conclude that your Vali2 might be the culprit.  At that point I would contact Schiit and discuss your the issue with them for assistance.


I have done the things you say and the problem didn't go away!
I will try again and I will move the Vali to another place to and I will report back!
Thank you...


----------



## Tuneslover

DomieMic65 said:


> I have done the things you say and the problem didn't go away!
> I will try again and I will move the Vali to another place to and I will report back!
> Thank you...



I feel your pain and hope that you resolve it.  Good luck!


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Does anybody have comments on the Vali 2 paired with the LCD-X?


----------



## HOWIE13

DomieMic65 said:


> So any idea what might be the buzz I get from the amp?
> Regardless of tubes ..



My Vali2 has always hummed on high gain with many tubes and headphones, but not all. I'm sure it's in the nature of the amp.
Fortunately, I can usually manage on low gain, when there is no audible hum. If you have an intrusive audible hum on low gain I would think there is a fault with the amp, assuming all other external causes have been reasonably eliminated.


----------



## DomieMic65

Finally I tested the amp to another place I am for vacation and it is silent regardless of tubes and gain so the problem unfortunately is related to my house electrical installation...


----------



## chef8489

DomieMic65 said:


> Finally I tested the amp to another place I am for vacation and it is silent regardless of tubes and gain so the problem unfortunately is related to my house electrical installation...


In this situation I would get a battery backup/avr. This will fix your problem.


----------



## rnros

DomieMic65 said:


> Finally I tested the amp to another place I am for vacation and it is silent regardless of tubes and gain so the problem unfortunately is related to my house electrical installation...



That makes sense. Thought you might have a problem with the amp itself since the Vali2 I have is very quiet. I had tested this amp with various tubes and headphones back in September and found it to be quiet except for the very lowest impedance headphones. From the discussion at that time: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/official-schiit-vali-2-thread.790828/page-103#post-12871295


----------



## brad1138

I am interested in this to run with a Modi 2 as a preamp for 2 channel amp (not purchased yet) to run my secondary stereo system(no headphones). I can't find any reviews that speak to the preamp outs. Anyone have any thoughts here. I have a Freya with upgraded tubes in my main system. I was looking at the SYS, but I like tubes and some gain.

Thanks


----------



## chef8489

brad1138 said:


> I am interested in this to run with a Modi 2 as a preamp for 2 channel amp (not purchased yet) to run my secondary stereo system(no headphones). I can't find any reviews that speak to the preamp outs. Anyone have any thoughts here. I have a Freya with upgraded tubes in my main system. I was looking at the SYS, but I like tubes and some gain.
> 
> Thanks


Thats because the Modi 2 is a dac and not an amp.


----------



## chef8489

Double post.


----------



## brad1138 (Aug 1, 2017)

chef8489 said:


> Thats because the Modi 2 is a dac and not an amp.


I know that...... The modi 2 is my DAC...... I am going to pick up a 2 channel amp, probably used from CL, and use the combo to replace aging Sony ES receiver.


----------



## chef8489

brad1138 said:


> I know that...... The modi 2 is my DAC...... I am going to pick up a 2 channel amp, probably used from CL, and use the combo to replace aging Sony ES receiver.


Sorry have a headache. Had to reread your post LOL. You are wanting to use the Vali 2 as a preamp. Sorry cant help you there as I only use it as a hp amp.


----------



## brad1138

I did find a few comments on the preamp section and the consensus was "meh", so I went with the SYS instead. 

Thanks


----------



## Flimbo37

Hello,

The Vali 2 is my first tube amp, and I`m having a blast with it. I also got an EH 6922 as my first tube rolling, and it sounds really, really good, much better than the stock one (that does not seem to have any identification on it).

I have been reading this thread and the tube rolling one, and by its description it seems an octal tube would be a nice adition, considering a more tubey, warm sound.

I already got a socket saver and an adapter, so I was wondering if anyone could give some suggestions on octals.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## chef8489

Flimbo37 said:


> Hello,
> 
> The Vali 2 is my first tube amp, and I`m having a blast with it. I also got an EH 6922 as my first tube rolling, and it sounds really, really good, much better than the stock one (that does not seem to have any identification on it).
> 
> ...


I am using vintage tubes. that are not too expensive.
'57 Sylvania 6SN7GTB [600mA] 280 726
'58 FOTON 6N8S [600mA] XII-58
You can check out the 6sn7 tube addics thread https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6sn7-tube-addicts.479031/


----------



## CarlosUnchained

The new Massdrop x Cavali Hybrid Tube amp seems to disrupt Schiit's line of affordable products. I'd love to read more comparisons between the MCHT and the Vali 2 in the time to come.


----------



## RickB

CarlosUnchained said:


> The new Massdrop x Cavali Hybrid Tube amp seems to disrupt Schiit's line of affordable products. I'd love to read more comparisons between the MCHT and the Vali 2 in the time to come.



It has no preamp outputs for powered speakers, so it's a nonstarter for me.


----------



## tengoo

Got Vali2 some months ago. Love it.

The only issue I met with Vali2 is, when I use T50RPmod on high gain, volume at 3 o'clock, the whole sound is distorted. (With SS amps, they are fine).
Is this because...

- Output power of Vali2 is not enough to drive T50RP at a loud volume?
- Output impedance of Vali2 (5.8 ohms on high gain) is too high for T50RP (50 ohms)? It seems to be ok according to the 1/8 rule though.
- Nature of tube? (especially with planars?)


----------



## chef8489

Yes 50 ohm you should be on low gain.


----------



## tengoo

chef8489 said:


> Yes 50 ohm you should be on low gain.



Gotcha, unfortunately I can't get enough volume with low gain, so probably need to upgrade my amplifier to Lyr2 or upcoming Massdrop Cavalli one, which has lower output impedance on higher gain...


----------



## chef8489

How are you not getting enough volume? It puts out a crazy amount of power. I think it is distorting because you are driving them far louder then the drivers can handle. Its putting out 650mw per channel @ 50ohms.


----------



## tengoo (Aug 20, 2017)

I guess it's a matter of gain. And with SS amps they are totally controlled at a loud volume I prefer.


----------



## chef8489

Whay ss amps are you comparing it to?


----------



## DomieMic65

chef8489 said:


> How are you not getting enough volume? It puts out a crazy amount of power. I think it is distorting because you are driving them far louder then the drivers can handle. Its putting out 650mw per channel @ 50ohms.


The Fostexes need a lot of power... i didn’t have the Vali 2 when I heared them but the bottom line was that they need a lot of power


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm going to order an 1/8 inch to RCA cable to preamp my Vali 1 into my Panache and see how it differs from pure solid state. I had difficulty hearing any difference with MJ2, but perhaps Vali 1 is more colored.


----------



## Andrew Nguyen

Flimbo37 said:


> Hello,
> 
> The Vali 2 is my first tube amp, and I`m having a blast with it. I also got an EH 6922 as my first tube rolling, and it sounds really, really good, much better than the stock one (that does not seem to have any identification on it).
> 
> ...


I'm using a Raytheon black plate.  To me, it gave mid and sub-bass more depth without interfering with the mids too much.  Soundstage isn't the widest, but it's not claustrophobically close.  It's my current daily driver and their cheap, so that's a plus.


----------



## inspectah_deck (Sep 12, 2017)

I have a problem with my new Vali 2.

My setup is like this:
PC -> USB -> Modi Multibit -> Vali 2 (-> PreOuts -> JBL LSR305)

When I connect the active monitors to the preouts I get hissing and glitchy noise while using the PC, no matter if the sound comes via monitors or headphones.
But that only happens when there are cables in the preouts (no matter if the monitors are on or off), when I remove the cables and only listen via headphones, everything is perfectly quiet.


----------



## mwaarna

FYI:

Schiit Vali 2 has had a price drop to 149.99:
http://www.schiit.com/products/vali-2

To Co-inside with the new Magni 3:
http://www.schiit.com/products/magni-3

And Minor Change with the Modi 2 which got the uber nicer housing.

News Posting:
http://www.schiit.com/news/news/schiit-introduces-magni-3


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Waiting to hear some Vali 2 vs Magni 3 comparisons.


----------



## jnak00

I just bought a Vali 2.  I have an SMSL amp hooked up to the preamp outs, which powers some bookshelf speakers on my desk.  I noticed when I turned the Vali on today (without any headphones plugged in), the speakers popped a few times.  Is this normal?  I usually leave the SMSL on all the time, but I think I will start turning it off if this is going to happen every time I turn the Vali on.


----------



## Tuneslover

jnak00 said:


> I just bought a Vali 2.  I have an SMSL amp hooked up to the preamp outs, which powers some bookshelf speakers on my desk.  I noticed when I turned the Vali on today (without any headphones plugged in), the speakers popped a few times.  Is this normal?  I usually leave the SMSL on all the time, but I think I will start turning it off if this is going to happen every time I turn the Vali on.



Yup unfortunately that is normal.


----------



## jnak00

Just some quick impressions after about a week with the Vali 2.  My old amp was a Magni 2 Uber.  I use a Mimby DAC and my headphones are TH-X00s purplehearts and HD-6XXs.  I bought the Vali after reading how wonderful it is with the HD6XXs, and was a bit worried about how they would pair with the TH-X00s since comments on that were inconsistent.  Well, so far, the HD6XXs are good, not much different from the Magni 2 Uber, but the TH-X00s sound fantastic!  I think the Vali is a bit more laid back than the M2U, so that helps tame the somewhat hot treble of the TH-X00.  The HD6XX is already smoother in the treble, so it doesn't benefit as much. The bass seems to be a bit thicker than the M2U, which I actually enjoy a bit more.  I run it on low gain with the TH-X00s as I can hear a hum on high gain.

I get some channel imbalance at low volumes but it's still better than my M2U in that regard.  With the M2U, i had to put a SYS between the Mimby and M2U in order to reduce the volume a bit so I could have usable volume control in the Magni.  I ran the SYS at 50% with the Magni.  With the Vali 2, between it putting out a bit less power and having a better volume pot, I pulled the SYS out completely and it works great.  

Overall, I am very happy with this amp.


----------



## qqqqdd123

I have got my schiit vali 2 for 2 weeks. It drives my HD800 well. I can feel it try to tame a little bit of the treble but not that much. It still remains resolution which is similar to SS amp. Another thing is that it drives my k3003 without any hissing. I think it is a good entry level amp for neutral and bright headphone.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

CarlosUnchained said:


> Waiting to hear some Vali 2 vs Magni 3 comparisons.



Take a look in the Magni 3 impressions thread if you haven't already. Lots of Vali 2 owners (myself included) who are comparing their findings.


----------



## Tuneslover

qqqqdd123 said:


> I have got my schiit vali 2 for 2 weeks. It drives my HD800 well. I can feel it try to tame a little bit of the treble but not that much. It still remains resolution which is similar to SS amp. Another thing is that it drives my k3003 without any hissing. I think it is a good entry level amp for neutral and bright headphone.



Also keep in mind that the Vali 2, Project Ember and others are not pure tube amps.  They are in fact hybrid amps with the preamp using the tube while the amp section is solid state driven.  That's also why hybrid tube amps may not be considered "warm tube amps".  If you're looking for a warmer sound you might want to research full (preamp & amp) headphone amps.


----------



## teb1013

I have been using the Vali 2 with my old Aune T1 as DAC and an excellent Amperex 7308 tube with my Sennheiser HD600 headphones and have enjoyed them tremendously. Today, I saw that the Woo WA7d DAC/Amp is available on Massdrop for $649. While I am tempted based on look alone, I am wondering how much, if at all, of an improvement the WA7 would provide. Does anyone have an insight on this question? Thanks.


----------



## GhostLoveScore

Hi everyone. I've had Vali 2 for about a year now. For the last few months volume knob is noisy when I turn it. You can hear kind of scratching in the headphones when turning it. Is that normal? It seems kind of early for volume pots to go bad.


----------



## RickB

GhostLoveScore said:


> Hi everyone. I've had Vali 2 for about a year now. For the last few months volume knob is noisy when I turn it. You can hear kind of scratching in the headphones when turning it. Is that normal? It seems kind of early for volume pots to go bad.



I've had a Vali 2 for almost two years and my volume knob has never made any noise.


----------



## GhostLoveScore

Does anybody know what is the procedure for sending it for repairs from Europe? Does it need to be shipped to US?


----------



## RickB

GhostLoveScore said:


> Does anybody know what is the procedure for sending it for repairs from Europe? Does it need to be shipped to US?



I would first check with tech@schiit.com for suggestions on how to maybe clear it up yourself first (like using contact cleaner; but ask them about it.).


----------



## Grado Diesel

I’ve got roughly 2,158 hours on my Vali 2 with the Genelex Gold Lion 12AX7 tube. How can you tell when a tube is toast on the Vali? It seems to me as though this hybrid amp does not put the tubes through the paces as a 100% tube amp would. Any answers on this?


----------



## RickB

Grado Diesel said:


> I’ve got roughly 2,158 hours on my Vali 2 with the Genelex Gold Lion 12AX7 tube. How can you tell when a tube is toast on the Vali? It seems to me as though this hybrid amp does not put the tubes through the paces as a 100% tube amp would. Any answers on this?


When a tube went bad on my Vali, I noticed that the vocals became very shrill.


----------



## florence (Oct 11, 2017)

My vali 2 is on the way. I will pair the Vali with idsd black (as pre-amp or dac with rca output) > ak70 and/or macbook pro > senn hd800 and hd600

What tubes do you recommend regarding my headphones? Some says stock tube is bad so it seems that I will need some better ones. This is gonna be my first tube amp so I have no idea which one I should consider to purchase.

edit: what do you say about E288CC?


----------



## jnak00

Just try the stock tube and see if you like it.


----------



## teb1013

florence said:


> My vali 2 is on the way. I will pair the Vali with idsd black (as pre-amp or dac with rca output) > ak70 and/or macbook pro > senn hd800 and hd600
> 
> What tubes do you recommend regarding my headphones? Some says stock tube is bad so it seems that I will need some better ones. This is gonna be my first tube amp so I have no idea which one I should consider to purchase.
> 
> edit: what do you say about E288CC?



I use HD 600s with my Vali 2, I no longer remember which tube the Vali 2 came with, but I use an Amperex 7308 NOS tube from 1968 with it and it sounds fantastic! I would agree that you should try out the stock tube first. Good luck!


----------



## florence

jnak00 said:


> Just try the stock tube and see if you like it.





teb1013 said:


> I use HD 600s with my Vali 2, I no longer remember which tube the Vali 2 came with, but I use an Amperex 7308 NOS tube from 1968 with it and it sounds fantastic! I would agree that you should try out the stock tube first. Good luck!



Thank you. I will try the stock tube in the first place. However, while it is on the way, I placed an order, Reflector 6n23p. Hope sounds good enough with HD 600 and HD800.


----------



## MementoMori99

florence said:


> My vali 2 is on the way. I will pair the Vali with idsd black (as pre-amp or dac with rca output) > ak70 and/or macbook pro > senn hd800 and hd600
> 
> What tubes do you recommend regarding my headphones? Some says stock tube is bad so it seems that I will need some better ones. This is gonna be my first tube amp so I have no idea which one I should consider to purchase.
> 
> edit: what do you say about E288CC?



Please see my post #945 on the vali 2 tube rolling thread in the link below.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vali-2-tube-rolling.793982/page-63#post-13784041


----------



## autox

Hi all - first post here.

Has anyone observed DC on the output immediately after the muting relay closes?  

This will likely be accompanied by that click/pop.  I can't think of a way you'd detect it with headphones.  I'm using my Vali 2 as a pre-amp for my speakers.  After the relay closes, my woofer cones get pushed to x-max and held there for a brief period.  Surprisingly, this doesn't affect SQ substantially at low/normal listening volumes.  Regardless, DC will cook your driver coils and kill your speakers - badbadbad.  Doesn't matter where the Vali's volume knob is.  Headphone out does it as well; gain switch makes no difference.

I sent it in for warranty, they said they replaced the board, and it still happens - just doesn't last as long now.  This w/ the stock tube, owned about a year.  Other, new tubes do the same thing.  This just isn't a risk I'm willing to take w/ my speakers - real bummer.

Has any one else seen this?


----------



## jnak00

autox said:


> Hi all - first post here.
> 
> Has anyone observed DC on the output immediately after the muting relay closes?
> 
> ...



I haven't measured the DC or looked at my speakers when I turn the Vali on, but they would do a nasty pop on startup, either through my speakers or headphones.  So now I make sure my speaker amp is turned off, and keep my headphones unplugged, before I turn on the Vali 2.


----------



## Tuneslover

jnak00 said:


> I haven't measured the DC or looked at my speakers when I turn the Vali on, but they would do a nasty pop on startup, either through my speakers or headphones.  So now I make sure my speaker amp is turned off, and keep my headphones unplugged, before I turn on the Vali 2.



Yeah I can't stand that pop upon start-up.  I sold off my Magni2U and replaced it with Jotunheim which doesn't do that annoying pop.   I bought a Project Ember which doesn't do that annoying pop and was planning to sell my Vali 2.  However I decided to keep it (for now) and put it onto my computer rig but begrudgingly it forces me to reach around behind my A2 to turn them off.


----------



## ToddRaymond

autox said:


> Hi all - first post here.
> 
> Has anyone observed DC on the output immediately after the muting relay closes?
> 
> ...



Yes.  When I used my Vali 2 and Lyr 2 as a preamp at different times, they would send a bad pop through my power amp and speakers, and put my power amp into protection mode. I shared these experience once on Jason's thread and he deleted my post.

My tubes were various Reflektors.


----------



## Harry Manback

Turdski said:


> Yes.  When I used my Vali 2 and Lyr 2 as a preamp at different times, they would send a bad pop through my power amp and speakers, and put my power amp into protection mode. I shared these experience once on Jason's thread and he deleted my post.
> 
> My tubes were various Reflektors.



How could Jason delete a post?  If sponsors can do that this whole site is suddenly invalid.


----------



## autox

Turdski said:


> Yes.  When I used my Vali 2 and Lyr 2 as a preamp at different times, they would send a bad pop through my power amp and speakers, and put my power amp into protection mode. I shared these experience once on Jason's thread and he deleted my post.
> 
> My tubes were various Reflektors.



@Turdski,

Ok, so the pop made it past the protection trigger to your speakers, but then it went in to protection mode?  Do you know what triggers protection mode?  Do you think it was DC?


----------



## ToddRaymond (Nov 18, 2017)

He and Mike are free to moderate their own threads (the "Schiit Happened" and "What a long, strange trip" threads).  MIke has only deleted two posts:  One for being incomprehensible, and the other for being racist.  Jason has at times felt the need to deleted a number of posts.  Despite the thread often going completely off the rails, sometimes there's a bit more of an attempt to keep the thread "on topic", meaning, positively promoting the brand.  (In my opinion; your mileage may vary, etc.)  Once he asked who would be interested in a small desktop amp, and my post expressing interest also got deleted.

I should provide more context for these two examples.  During the second example, I believe an argument was starting to gain momentum between a couple of posters, resulting in a couple extra pages of blahbiddy-blah, so perhaps the timing of my "I would LOVE to see a mini pivot-point-based amp" was (somehow) taken as a "yeah, okay guys, time to shuddup now/thanks for weighing in".  In the first example, someone had just mentioned a (potentially spurious) story someone else had posted on another forum, I believe, about a Schiit headphone amp causing some major problems when being used as a preamp.  In Jason's defence, he was likely trying to avoid a Schiitstorm of (potential nonsense) information being propagated seemingly endlessly, and so on.  I did chime in though just to mention what I touched on in my previous post in this thread, as I too had noticed this as being a characteristic of *multiple* Schiit headphone amps.  I'm hesitant to even write all about this, as I feel fervent Schiit supporters will express their mountain doubt, and I'll otherwise being accused of being off topic.  I think though that it's important – for a variety of reasons – to know not just about a product or company's many strengths – as there most assuredly are in this case – but also any possible shortcomings that fellow users may experience.  When some individuals simply mention that their support hasn't gotten back to them after several days, those people are often met with an avalanche of doubt.  Meanwhile, the man himself has very recently admitted to this being an issue in the past.  (For the record, I've had mostly great experiences with both their products and their support.  [EDIT:  Mostly, but also some not so great support when things crapped out in a very short amount of time.]  Also, I've owned 15 pieces of Schiit at this point.)


----------



## ToddRaymond

autox said:


> @Turdski,
> 
> Ok, so the pop made it past the protection trigger to your speakers, but then it went in to protection mode?  Do you know what triggers protection mode?  Do you think it was DC?



From my broken armchair engineer's vantage point, that very much sounds plausible.  To be more clear, the "POOF/POP" happened virtually at the same exact moment as the Ayre power amp went into "uhhhh, no thank-you" mode.  Within probably 0.25 seconds.  Every single time, with both the Vali 2 and Lyr 2.  Don't think the original Mjolnir did that though with my McIntosh amp (or maybe it was to a lesser degree... that was a while ago).


----------



## RickB

Turdski said:


> From my broken armchair engineer's vantage point, that very much sounds plausible.  To be more clear, the "POOF/POP" happened virtually at the same exact moment as the Ayre power amp went into "uhhhh, no thank-you" mode.  Within probably 0.25 seconds.  Every single time, with both the Vali 2 and Lyr 2.  Don't think the original Mjolnir did that though with my McIntosh amp (or maybe it was to a lesser degree... that was a while ago).



Let me ask you, in your opinion, is it dangerous to have headphones plugged into a Schiit amp that produces a pop when turned on?


----------



## autox

I see.  Very disappointing.  

I suppose they can get away w/ DC out as a headphone amp because 1) headphone diaphragms are generally concealed and have a miniscule xmax anyway, making it very unlikely to be noticed, and 2) I think the power output vs. the windings in headphone drivers are far less likely to result in thermal damage than that equation for speaker drivers vs. a power amp.

Good to hear Schiit is capable of good customer support - my experience was abysmal.  It took over 30 days to get an RA#, and on the relatively rare occasions any one responded to me, the general sentiment was dismissive.  While their SQ is great, they are otherwise feeling aptly named to me.  (That name of theirs is cute until things go south...)


----------



## thebmc

CarlosUnchained said:


> Waiting to hear some Vali 2 vs Magni 3 comparisons.



I plan to do exactly this when mine arrives.  A friend has a magni 3 that we both love.  We both have modi 2U, he's using some focal headphones and I just got a pair of he400i (screaming deal right now btw).  We're both eager to compare back to back.


----------



## joasjoas

The Vali 2 can handle 600 ohm of the DT 990? I'm looking Magni 3, O2 and I'm not clarifying. My use is for PC music and games


----------



## ljperez84

florence said:


> Thank you. I will try the stock tube in the first place. However, while it is on the way, I placed an order, Reflector 6n23p. Hope sounds good enough with HD 600 and HD800.



Hi there, very interested in this. I just got my HD800 S yesterday and while I’m loving it I would like to warm up the sound and  enhance the soundstage vs what I’m getting right now with my Valhalla 1. I’d ideally try to go with the MJ2 but money is a restriction  for that right now.

Please share your results!


----------



## Hofy

joasjoas said:


> The Vali 2 can handle 600 ohm of the DT 990? I'm looking Magni 3, O2 and I'm not clarifying. My use is for PC music and games



While I do not have the DT990  I do have a pair of Sennheiser HD540  600 ohm.  The Vali2 can drive them but that is about it.  These cans need more to really open up and sing.


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

Magni 3 for 600 ohm is a good combo if your on a tight budget. I had a DT 880 600 ohm and magni 3 recently. It sounded beautiful together.


----------



## hardpike

Hi
I got my Vali 2 a few days ago (After reading hundred of pages here). Stock tube is sylvania made in Taiwan. I have a couple of tubes to roll coming (EH-6922 and matsush**ta 7 volts), and also an adaptor to use a Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z (I will machine the top of the Vali to open space for the adaptor. Very excited times.
My rig is a bit of a Frankenstein. Pono player=>Vali 2=>Stax adaptor SDR-X with SR-207 headphones. I have a couple of questions for wise people regarding what's the best set up for this:
1. volume=> how should I set up the volume? Pono max, vali 2 controlling, SDR-X as low as possible? the SDR is for me the weakest point of the chain, so I am trying to keep it as low as possible.
2. connection from vali2 to SDR-X=> Should I use the rear connections or the front one from the headphone jack? right now I am using the rear ones... would I get any improvement using the front jack to the RCAs of the SDR-X?

Cheers!


----------



## ToddRaymond

Using the right 3.5 mm out on your Pono will give you a proper line out (left is headphone out).  I realize this is an incomplete response, but I'm offtabed.


----------



## hagenhays

Anyone try a lisst in the vali 2?
Was debating whether to get a magni 3 or just try "rolling" a solid state And see what it sounds like....
Schiit says it works, but have not heard anyone giving their feedback on this.

Wondering if anyone as tried this??


----------



## volly

For the money, you're just better off grabbing the Magni 3, how much is the lisst again? $50 for single lisst tube, the Magni 3 is $99....


----------



## swmtnbiker

If money was the only consideration that would be good advice, but how does the Vali 2 SOUND with the LISST? That's the real question.


----------



## RickB

hagenhays said:


> Anyone try a lisst in the vali 2?
> Was debating whether to get a magni 3 or just try "rolling" a solid state And see what it sounds like....
> Schiit says it works, but have not heard anyone giving their feedback on this.
> 
> Wondering if anyone as tried this??



A member who hasn't posted in a while, @bigro, posted about using the LISST in the Vali 2 years ago. If your search-fu is better than mine, maybe try searching for a post about it by him or even send a PM.


----------



## scotvl

I'm thinking of picking up the vali 2 to primarily use with IEMs and I want to try it out as a preamp for my home system to try to mellow out my Polk Rta9s once in a while for 2 channel listening. I was wondering if anyone here has tried using the vali 2 as a preamp and what you thought about it. .


----------



## ToddRaymond

@scotvl While it's certainly not going to blow you away as a preamp, it's surprisingly decent.  My advice would be to turn on the Vali 2 first and wait a good... 20 seconds, I believe (it's been a while since I've had mine) prior to turning on your power amp, in order to avoid any DC popping or 'poof'ing through your amp and speakers.  But yes, in a pinch, it's ohhkaay as a preamp.

As a headphone amp is where the unit really shines though.  I used mine with the insanely revealing Ocharaku Flat 4 Kaede II IEMs, and it worked very well.


----------



## Tuneslover

Turdski said:


> @scotvl While it's certainly not going to blow you away as a preamp, it's surprisingly decent.  My advice would be to turn on the Vali 2 first and wait a good... 20 seconds, I believe (it's been a while since I've had mine) prior to turning on your power amp, in order to avoid any DC popping or 'poof'ing through your amp and speakers.  But yes, in a pinch, it's ohhkaay as a preamp.
> 
> As a headphone amp is where the unit really shines though.  I used mine with the insanely revealing Ocharaku Flat 4 Kaede II IEMs, and it worked very well.



Yeah that WHOOOMP sound is very very annoying.  I keep a headphone adaptor plug plugged into the Vali 2 after every listening session.  That way on my next listen I don't get shocked by that friggin' sound when I turn on the V2.


----------



## ntbm3

Just picked up a Vali 2. 

Love this little thing! Has really impressed me.

Trying a few things I ended up using it as a pre-amp for my Jot and found it to be an amazing combo. 

All the slam and speed of the Jot with some tube magic air and imaging. Killer combo!!! 

Today's set-up:
Bimby->Vail2->Jot-> LCD-X 


My plan was to add Vali2 to my work set-up which is Modi multi->magni 3-> JH16 PROV2. I am hoping for the same synergy putting it in front of the Jot.

Curious how it work out with the low impedance CIEM's (13-20 ohms), I am living on the low end of the magni3 dial, the Vali2 as a pre amp should allow me to adjust a bit.

I will report back on my CIEM experience, maybe not the best option with this amp but worth a try!

Happy listening!


----------



## Tuneslover (Feb 26, 2018)

ntbm3 said:


> Just picked up a Vali 2.
> 
> Love this little thing! Has really impressed me.
> 
> ...



Your post inspired me to give this a try.

I have Bimby>newly inserted Vali 2> with JJ E88CC gp tube>Jotunheim.

I'm still playing around with settings on the Vali 2 and Jot.  Right now I have the Vali 2 on high gain and the volume knob around 2 o'clock with the Jot on low gain with the volume knob pushed up at 12 o'clock which makes it about as loud as would consider going.  It sounds very impactful, less harsh with good deep bass.  I wasn't able to achieve this with the Jot alone.

The immediate thing I noticed is that my HD650 and HD6XX has deeper bass and the brightness of the Jotunheim has been tempered however detail of the high frequencies is still very good.

My Paradigm Shift powered speakers never sounded better.  I'll have to keep this setup for a while to see how I end up liking it.

Has me inquiring the Schiit site to see what the Freya is all about.


----------



## AudioChaosx

ntbm3 said:


> Just picked up a Vali 2.
> 
> Love this little thing! Has really impressed me.
> 
> ...



That's very interesting as I have both amps. I will have to try that out sometime. What tube are you running in the Vali 2?


----------



## ntbm3

Running stock tube right now. I have the EH 6922 on the way to try.

Hooked up the Vali2 in my work set up:
Modi multi->Vali2 ->Magni 3-> JH16 Pro V2 CIEM

With this set up it is fun to swap between the Vali2 and the Magni3. 

Overall the the super low impedance CEIM's not the best match for the Vali2 (some bloomy bass) but switch to the Magni3 with vali2 as a pre amp clean things up a bit.

But now I miss having the Vali 2 at my home set-up where it really shinned!!

Maybe need to get another Vali2 or even a Saga for the home set up.....

Overall the Vali2 brings that little bit of magic to my set up, I love it!


----------



## volly

In my experience, the Vali 2 will sound it's best after a period of warm up time, when I roll a tube, if it's new to me, I would roll it in and turn on the amp and leave it for 10-15 minutes.

I rarely burn-in tubes and much rather just listen to it raw and judge on whether it's got the legs to stay in the Vali 2. Saying that, my stash of tubes gets at least a few days of amp time per tube. With other "Favourties" getting long  periods.

There are a few tubes in my stash that I know needs much more time to mature, that is from a personal experience as well as shared information from the web. i.e. Russian tubes, my Shunguang (which is still burning in approximately 200hrs) and my Telefunken (first sounding bad).

Passing a signal through after the tube is warmed up isn't a bad idea either as the tube is directly being used.

IMHO.


----------



## raf1919

well just spent over 100 bucks on various tubes and adapters all thanks to this thread.


----------



## Tuneslover

raf1919 said:


> well just spent over 100 bucks on various tubes and adapters all thanks to this thread.



That's a reasonable amount to spend in my opinion.  Personally my suggestion is not to get carried away with too many tubes.  I suspect you managed to get 1-2 decent tubes for that money so simply enjoy them and replace them when they fail (several years from now).

I found that I didn't notice too much of a sound difference between tubes (I purchased 3 good tubes:  EH, JJ & Tesla) so I decided that I have accumulated a decent cross section of tubes.  After I purchased the Project Ember though I was able to hear differences between these tubes, however I personally didn't feel that I needed to add to my tube inventory.


----------



## Mr Trev

Tuneslover said:


> That's a reasonable amount to spend in my opinion.  Personally my suggestion is not to get carried away with too many tubes.  I suspect you managed to get 1-2 decent tubes for that money so simply enjoy them and replace them when they fail (several years from now).
> 
> I found that I didn't notice too much of a sound difference between tubes (I purchased 3 good tubes:  EH, JJ & Tesla) so I decided that I have accumulated a decent cross section of tubes.  After I purchased the Project Ember though I was able to hear differences between these tubes, however I personally didn't feel that I needed to add to my tube inventory.



Pretty sound advice to me. Personally, for the most part I don't hear much of a difference between tubes either. Especially when comparing tubes in the same family. I do hear a bigger difference when comparing say a 12au7 to the 6dj8 or something on those lines. I have to think that it might just be the nature of the Vali that tube differences are minimized.


----------



## raf1919

Tuneslover said:


> That's a reasonable amount to spend in my opinion.  Personally my suggestion is not to get carried away with too many tubes.  I suspect you managed to get 1-2 decent tubes for that money so simply enjoy them and replace them when they fail (several years from now).
> 
> I found that I didn't notice too much of a sound difference between tubes (I purchased 3 good tubes:  EH, JJ & Tesla) so I decided that I have accumulated a decent cross section of tubes.  After I purchased the Project Ember though I was able to hear differences between these tubes, however I personally didn't feel that I needed to add to my tube inventory.



I just purchased several NOS Russian ones based on feedback.  Also some adapters to try different tubes.  I figured I can go out to dinner and drinks and spend more and this will entertain me for a lot longer.  With adapter I'll be able to use same tube on Vali2 and Darkvoice to just see how same tube sounds on different amp.


----------



## volly

raf1919 said:


> I just purchased several NOS Russian ones based on feedback.  Also some adapters to try different tubes.  I figured I can go out to dinner and drinks and spend more and this will entertain me for a lot longer.  With adapter I'll be able to use same tube on Vali2 and Darkvoice to just see how same tube sounds on different amp.


Saw the drop going down over at Massdrop for the DV currently, would love to jump on it! Your thoughts on the Vali 2 v DV?


----------



## raf1919

volly said:


> Saw the drop going down over at Massdrop for the DV currently, would love to jump on it! Your thoughts on the Vali 2 v DV?


I actually just ordered the drop myself was curious.


----------



## volly

Hot Damn, very tempted myself, just been breaking in a new pair of HD650's, sounds so nice with the Vali2! 

Rolling in the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z at the moment, damn fine tube!


----------



## raf1919

volly said:


> Hot Damn, very tempted myself, just been breaking in a new pair of HD650's, sounds so nice with the Vali2!
> 
> Rolling in the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z at the moment, damn fine tube!



I fell for temptation.. I ordered 6sn7 for vali which will fit DK so will get see how same tube sounds on the amps


----------



## Louisifer

Too me, the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z is the pinnacle

(thanks to Volly because I could not wrap my head on implementing the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z on the Vali).


----------



## Rossliew

PIcs please!


----------



## Louisifer

There ya go


----------



## Louisifer

So I figured instead of rolling tubes on the amp, roll amps on the tubes. In perfect shape, just a lot of dust in the desert.


----------



## volly

@bcowen - I may have advised you not to pursue this tube but perhaps if you find one for a decent price then it maybe worth your investment. 

@Louisifer - How many hours have you clocked up on your Shunguang Treasure?


----------



## Rossliew

Louisifer said:


> There ya go



Did u attach a pic or something?


----------



## raf1919

Worst part of buying all these Russian tubes is the waiting


----------



## Louisifer

volly said:


> @bcowen - I may have advised you not to pursue this tube but perhaps if you find one for a decent price then it maybe worth your investment.
> 
> @Louisifer - How many hours have you clocked up on your Shunguang Treasure?



I had only solid state amps before the Vali, and I used them for at least 3 hours per day.  The stock tube starting getting grainy and weak on one channel by the time I had the big tube.  My guess that I used the Vali for about 400 hours with the Shuguang tube.   When I changed the tube, the improvement was immediate.  If I had to use superlatives; space, detail, extension, separation, impact, and accuracy come to mind.  I lost gain with the Shuguang.  Hence, I had been searching for an amp to use the Shuguangas.   I settled for the Icon Audio Icon Audio HP8 MKii, and after a lot of search, I got a great deal on this amp used with the stock tubes.  Of course, Shuguangs on this throughout.  I still love the Vali, but the Icon is so much better with the Chinese tubes.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             nn


----------



## Louisifer

Rossliew said:


> Did u attach a pic or something?



I tried.  Volly posted the picture with the tube.


----------



## maheeinfy

Does a 6SN7 work on Vali 2 ?  If i need an adapter, can someone point me where one can get a good quality adapter?


----------



## Jacobh

maheeinfy said:


> Does a 6SN7 work on Vali 2 ?  If i need an adapter, can someone point me where one can get a good quality adapter?



Yep and you need an adapter.  There are several ebay links in this thread (or just search for 6SN7 to 6922), but it looks like TubeDepot now carries them and will ship from the US.  I think these adapters are all basically the same.


----------



## ACDOAN

Louisifer said:


> I had only solid state amps before the Vali, and I used them for at least 3 hours per day.  The stock tube starting getting grainy and weak on one channel by the time I had the big tube.  My guess that I used the Vali for about 400 hours with the Shuguang tube.   When I changed the tube, the improvement was immediate.  If I had to use superlatives; space, detail, extension, separation, impact, and accuracy come to mind.  I lost gain with the Shuguang.  Hence, I had been searching for an amp to use the Shuguangas.   I settled for the Icon Audio Icon Audio HP8 MKii, and after a lot of search, I got a great deal on this amp used with the stock tubes.  Of course, Shuguangs on this throughout.  I still love the Vali, but the Icon is so much better with the Chinese tubes.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             nn


Newbie with Schiit here. I have the Vali 2 and to my understanding, Schiit adds a relay on/off on their amps but my Vali 2 still pops on/ off and that annoying me. Since the Vali 2 is a hybrid with preamp tube, is it safe to turn the Vali2 on without any load attach ( the headphone ) and plug the H/P after 12 second or so ?


----------



## Tuneslover

ACDOAN said:


> Newbie with Schiit here. I have the Vali 2 and to my understanding, Schiit adds a relay on/off on their amps but my Vali 2 still pops on/ off and that annoying me. Since the Vali 2 is a hybrid with preamp tube, is it safe to turn the Vali2 on without any load attach ( the headphone ) and plug the H/P after 12 second or so ?



It POPS at startup (after 5-10 secs).  Best to wait until it's done it's annoying thing before plugging in your headphones.


----------



## jnak00

That startup/shutdown pop is really my only complaint with this amp.


----------



## ACDOAN (Mar 29, 2018)

Tuneslover said:


> It POPS at startup (after 5-10 secs).  Best to wait until it's done it's annoying thing before plugging in your headphones.



I played with Audio Reasearch, Cary SLI-80, Rogue mono blocks at my younger days but none of these tube amp/ integrated amps pop at my home audio speakers. Well that many, many moons ago, thing must have changed with the trim line cost. Now, this is not an headamp but for those who love integrated
 amps for the main rig, this is my favourite.






Don't get me wrong, at $149.00, it's a great deal for a hybrid tube headamp with solf relay but why Schitt ppl brother with the add-on relay when it does not work. Anyway, I keep it on the shelf and use the Vali 2 with my el-cheapo but good SQ JBL HAR 700. It's much easier to replace the Harx 700 than the Senn...


----------



## ACDOAN

jnak00 said:


> That startup/shutdown pop is really my only complaint with this amp.




I agree,


----------



## rgmffn

jnak00 said:


> That startup/shutdown pop is really my only complaint with this amp.


 That annoyed me too. I upgraded to a Project Ember ll and won't look back. It's a much better amp.


----------



## Tuneslover

rgmffn said:


> That annoyed me too. I upgraded to a Project Ember ll and won't look back. It's a much better amp.



That's interesting, I did the same thing.  The Ember is a terrific amp but I decided to go with the lesser expensive Vali 2 as a way to dabble into a tube amp.  However about a year later I went for it and bought the Project Ember.  It deposed the V2 and it's been getting shuffled around my various systems.  I ended up selling my Magni 2U and slotted the V2 into that system.  I couldn't stand that annoying popping sound (the Magni 2U did it as well) so I replaced it with a Jotunheim.  Not sure what I'm going to do with the Vali 2, probably sell it at some point.


----------



## ACDOAN

rgmffn said:


> That annoyed me too. I upgraded to a Project Ember ll and won't look back. It's a much better amp.



Pop and microphonic, meh. Going to get this one instead of the Jut . Made in Jap. Quality vs Quantity, it's just me. I am too old to mess around with tube rolling . I had my share of tube rolling many, many moons ago.


----------



## ACDOAN

mysticstryk said:


> Vali and Valhalla seem to be designed for different purposes.



The Vali is a hybrid head amp with the tube preamp stage. It will sound like solid state amp no more, no less. The Valhalla is a tube head phone amp. Two different animals with two differrent sounds.


----------



## bd6675

I was hoping someone could help me out. I am new to the world of DACs/amps....What is the recommended way to manage volume control. This is the setup I have:

Source(Computer for me) -> DAC(Modi Multibit) -> Vali2 -> Headphones

I use JRiver to manage and play my music. Should I be turning the volume control to 100% on both the application (JRiver) and the computer and then controlling the volume from the Vali 2?

Any help/recommendations on this would be helpful.

Thanks in advance,

BD6675


----------



## jnak00

bd6675 said:


> I use JRiver to manage and play my music. Should I be turning the volume control to 100% on both the application (JRiver) and the computer and then controlling the volume from the Vali 2?



I asked Schiit this same question and they said yes, put the computer volume at 100% and control the volume with the amp.


----------



## Jacobh

bd6675 said:


> I was hoping someone could help me out. I am new to the world of DACs/amps....What is the recommended way to manage volume control. This is the setup I have:
> 
> Source(Computer for me) -> DAC(Modi Multibit) -> Vali2 -> Headphones
> 
> ...




I believe that would give you the least theoretical loss in quality and what most people would suggest.  If you find that doesn't give you enough room to play with on the Vali volume pot, then I'd lower the player but keep Windows / MacOS at 100%.  Some DACs force you to keep computer master at 100%.  You could also put a passive pre-amp or volume control in between the Modi and Vali if you really wanted to keep all volume control in analogue.

In practice, I personally wouldn't worry too much about it, but that's me.


----------



## bd6675

Thanks jnak00 & Jacobh for the quick responses


----------



## Mizicke5273

I just ordered a Vali 2 and wanted to know which Gain mode people were using for HE-500s.


----------



## Louisifer

I'll try to be brief:

When I first got Vali/Modi 2 delivered, the amp briefly made the tube glow (at times), but I never got any sound out of it.  There was current flowing thru my finger when I touched the toggle switch to power it up.  Schiit promptly replaced.

Although I've moved from the Vali 2 amp, I am still using the Modi 2 basic DAC.

Although I love my Denon AH-D2000's cans, they keep falling apart, so before I ever got into the Schiit stuff, I bought Denon AH-MM400.  Not bad cans, but I intend to restore the D2000.  Once in a lifetime upgrade, I went to the Focal Elear phones, but they were not much of an upgrade from the 400's and they sounded "choppy", hence returned.  I went for broke and got Beyers t1.2.  They sounded like crap.  I thought; "break in".

I am an old school guy, and when young, before the concept of CDs, I listened to almost all of my recordings on compact cassette tapes (car audio and budget), so I understand "jitter".  What I heard from the T1s was jitter.  I thought the output of the Modi was too low as a preamp to drive the amp in handling the requirements of the T1.

I thought "jitter" was a thing of the past as long as vinyl or CD was the source.  I was going to upgrade using another Schiit DAC.

Searching for a new budget DAC, I found the following:


----------



## Louisifer

Sorry, I am dork at forums and timed out.  I found this: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/budget-dac-review-schiit-modi-2-99.1649/


----------



## Louisifer

Correction to "jitter"; I meant "wow and flutter".  Flutter and jitter what ever.  I am going back too much time.

Because of what I heard on the T1's, I switched back to the Denon's, and what I've heard was there but no but not as noticeable. I also changed all the tubes, but no difference in the aberrance.

I inspected the USB connection to the Modi and it was to an USB 1.  I switched to 2.0, and the distortion and jitter was reduce, and the output to the amp improved but still distortion and jitter.  I assembled my PC about 6 years ago so no USB 3.


----------



## Louisifer

In essence, what I heard was on the graphs of the following review: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/budget-dac-review-schiit-modi-2-99.1649/

The resolution of the T1s is that good, but distortion and jitter won't go away on me with lesser cans now.  I hope the T1s are as good as the cost, but I can't tell at this moment.

On the hunt for another DAC preamp.  I still like the Vali especially after the big tube.  I recommend the following site: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?articles/


----------



## chef8489

Louisifer said:


> In essence, what I heard was on the graphs of the following review: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/budget-dac-review-schiit-modi-2-99.1649/
> 
> The resolution of the T1s is that good, but distortion and jitter won't go away on me with lesser cans now.  I hope the T1s are as good as the cost, but I can't tell at this moment.
> 
> On the hunt for another DAC preamp.  I still like the Vali especially after the big tube.  I recommend the following site: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?articles/


Have you tried using  powered usb hub?  Maybe you should check out our sound science forums.


----------



## volly

@Louisifer - Have you got the optical or coax inputs on the your Modi? Your computer should at least have an optical out. If you're getting too much noise from USB I'd suggest going optical if/when you have the option to! 

Very cool site, might have a read through it later.


----------



## Louisifer

chef8489 said:


> Have you tried using  powered usb hub?  Maybe you should check out our sound science forums.


I never thought of that solution.  Very creative.  My thought was that the DAC only took the data from the USB and that was all.  Too me, the implementation from Schiit was very poor (to be nice).

Please take a look at the links that I posted.  Makes me think.  Look at the other post on Schiit stuff.  I know now why there was current flowing thru my fingers. 

Nonetheless, I am going to a powered USB hub as you suggested. Very cheap and practical solution in the meantime. 

Hype.  I've seen so much as this old fart thought was immune. 

In car stereo, you would start with the head unit (usually), and build up from there.  The weakest link would provide your end results.


----------



## Louisifer

volly said:


> @Louisifer - Have you got the optical or coax inputs on the your Modi? Your computer should at least have an optical out. If you're getting too much noise from USB I'd suggest going optical if/when you have the option to!
> 
> Very cool site, might have a read through it later.



Volly:

I do have a recent  and nice video card.  I will check for an optical output.  I have the basic Modi (no optical). 

Please go thru the site. Like I've stated, the graphs do represent what I am hearing.  There is more than one testing for Schiit DAC's (and the amps, check for build quality).  End result for the DACs, they all suffer from engineering shortcomings (to a lesser degree).

Although I have abused my hearing, I still best my 21 years old son and my 18 year old daughter.


----------



## chef8489

Louisifer said:


> I never thought of that solution.  Very creative.  My thought was that the DAC only took the data from the USB and that was all.  Too me, the implementation from Schiit was very poor (to be nice).
> 
> Please take a look at the links that I posted.  Makes me think.  Look at the other post on Schiit stuff.  I know now why there was current flowing thru my fingers.
> 
> ...


I have a distaste for that website. It is by no means objective by its members. There is a lot of Schiit hate over there. 

Part of the problem with dacs that do not seperate the power and the usb is noise can travel over the power section of the usb cable, especially if you have a crappy implimented circuitry on your mobo. Using a powered usb hub is an easy work around. The better modis have dedicated power bricks so do not get power from usb and this effect is greatly reduced if not all together eliminated unless for some reason a ground loop is formed.


----------



## Louisifer

chef8489 said:


> I have a distaste for that website. It is by no means objective by its members. There is a lot of Schiit hate over there.
> 
> Part of the problem with dacs that do not seperate the power and the usb is noise can travel over the power section of the usb cable, especially if you have a crappy implimented circuitry on your mobo. Using a powered usb hub is an easy work around. The better modis have dedicated power bricks so do not get power from usb and this effect is greatly reduced if not all together eliminated unless for some reason a ground loop is formed.



Agreed. 

I am an engeneer not an engineer.

My thoughts on external DACs (the computer already does that, and why not used it?) it should take the pure digital data and convert.  Yes, on the site, to much, "Schiit no good DAC", and build quality even on amps.  I still got current thru my fingers when I first got the Vali.

My current amp has 3 tubes.  I would expect some ground loops if not careful.  I understand that lower voltage going into the amp will make it much more prone to interference and ground loops.  That is why in the dying age of car audio, the output from RCAs jumped from less than a volt to more than 4 volts.  That also makes I easier for gain matching. 

In trying to match gain, that is why I am looking for a preamp. But if the DAC has already distortion and other artifacts, it will just be amplified. "Choppy", that is what I described originally what I heard.  Worst, it is on the same frequencies.


----------



## volly

@Louisifer - What headphones you running with your setup? Also, what music you jamming to?


----------



## luckybaer

Louisifer said:


> I never thought of that solution.  Very creative.  My thought was that the DAC only took the data from the USB and that was all.  Too me, the implementation from Schiit was very poor (to be nice).
> 
> Please take a look at the links that I posted.  Makes me think.  Look at the other post on Schiit stuff.  I know now why there was current flowing thru my fingers.
> 
> ...


If USB is an issue, I'd give a Schiit Eitr a look:  PC to Eitr via USB, Eitr to Modi via Coax.


----------



## Louisifer

volly said:


> @Louisifer - What headphones you running with your setup? Also, what music you jamming to?



Beyerdynamics T1.2,  then Icon Audio HP8 Mkii, then Modi2, then PC.


----------



## Louisifer

luckybaer said:


> If USB is an issue, I'd give a Schiit Eitr a look:  PC to Eitr via USB, Eitr to Modi via Coax.



From what little I understand, the DAC should just convert to analog and pass to the amp.  Perhaps gain is an issue.  The Denon's are very easy for this amp to drive.  The Beyers are hard to drive.  I am hearing the same artifacts from the Denon's, Focal Elear (returned), and the T1's.  Once I heard the "jitter", I heard it on other cans but not as evident.  Overall distortion is easy to spot, but this type of distortion is at certain frequencies all the time.


----------



## chef8489

What are the quality of the files you are playing?


----------



## Louisifer

chef8489 said:


> What are the quality of the files you are playing?



CD.  I am using as reference In Rainbows from Radiohead.

I found a simple solution.  I "borrowed" my daughter's Dragonfly Red.  Website states to turn the level of the computer and player all the way up so  it will function as line level source.  I may have turn both down a notch.  I think there is a times there is a little distortion.

This thing does sound good!  The texturing in the song Weird Fishers sound so good.

I may make this permanent.  Now how to make the borrowing permanent.


----------



## Mike-WI (May 18, 2018)

(deleted)


----------



## musicfan145

Louisifer said:


> CD.  I am using as reference In Rainbows from Radiohead.
> 
> I found a simple solution.  I "borrowed" my daughter's Dragonfly Red.  Website states to turn the level of the computer and player all the way up so  it will function as line level source.  I may have turn both down a notch.  I think there is a times there is a little distortion.
> 
> ...



So you are playing CDs in a computer to a USB DAC to the Vali 2? If so, I think your problem is a combination of 1) the CD-ROM drive being a terrible transport mechanism for audio CDs, and 2) the computer being a really noisy source of USB audio. Laptops and desktops are generally very noises sources to begin with, and playing directly from a CD (instead of a ripped lossless file) is going to make things much, much worse. The Modi doesn’t have the best USB receiver chip, and the basic one is bus powered (power comes from the PC), so it is very susceptible to noise. 

The Dragonfly Red and Vali 2 make a great combination. I’ve tried many other DACs (including the Modi Multibit) but I keep coming back to it. (Especially now that Roon can make it play MQA from Tidal.) However, it is still bus powered, so it sounds noticeable better when connected to less-noisy sources such as an iPhone or a Raspberry Pi. 

My first suggestion would be to try downloading, streaming, or ripping some music in a lossless format and see how that sounds compared to playing direct from the CD.


----------



## musicfan145

musicfan145 said:


> So you are playing CDs in a computer to a USB DAC to the Vali 2? If so, I think your problem is a combination of 1) the CD-ROM drive being a terrible transport mechanism for audio CDs, and 2) the computer being a really noisy source of USB audio. Laptops and desktops are generally very noises sources to begin with, and playing directly from a CD (instead of a ripped lossless file) is going to make things much, much worse. The Modi doesn’t have the best USB receiver chip, and the basic one is bus powered (power comes from the PC), so it is very susceptible to noise.
> 
> The Dragonfly Red and Vali 2 make a great combination. I’ve tried many other DACs (including the Modi Multibit) but I keep coming back to it. (Especially now that Roon can make it play MQA from Tidal.) However, it is still bus powered, so it sounds noticeable better when connected to less-noisy sources such as an iPhone or a Raspberry Pi.
> 
> My first suggestion would be to try downloading, streaming, or ripping some music in a lossless format and see how that sounds compared to playing direct from the CD.



Or if you prefer to stay with CDs, get a good CD player and connect it directly to the Vali 2.


----------



## ToddRaymond (May 30, 2018)

For those who haven't happened upon the new 'b-stock & closeout' section on their site, they've got b-stock Vali 2s for sale at $99 right now.  That's very few clams for a rather fine sounding and versatile amp.


----------



## h.rav

I just got a Vali 2. I notice the volume knob has been changed to something similar to Magni 3, Loki Mini.


----------



## riffrafff

h.rav said:


> I just got a Vali 2. I notice the volume knob has been changed to something similar to Magni 3, Loki Mini.




Huh.  Cool.   The knob on my Vali 2 is the only one (out of six) on my Stack that doesn't match.   

I wonder if it's too much to hope that I could purchase a knob separately...


----------



## timb5881

I got my Vali 2 this last Friday.  I have been using a Ei 7dj8 (often seen as a telefunkin orange globe, Phillips and other  brands labeled as a 6dj8), the A frame version.


----------



## Mike-WI (Jun 27, 2018)

I tried out my new Campfire Orion IEMs yesterday.
Using the Jotunheim MB (via Yggy v2 DAC) on high gain I heard background noise. Switching to low gain made to noise floor almost not hearable.

I switched to the Vali 2 and on high gain there was a left/right imbalance -- at least on the low volume excursion I could tolerate with the IEM.
I forgot to try the Vali 2 with low gain, but will try that today.
I suspect if that left/right imbalance is real (and not just an artifact of extremely low volume knob excursion) that it isn't noticeable with less sensitive headphones.


Mike

EDIT 06-27-18
I tried the IEMs with Vali 2 at low gain.
At lowest volume I hear no hiss.
However, I can still hear an imbalance in left/right channels.

I have been very impressesed with my B-stock Vali 2, but agree with comments after that this isn't optimal for IEMs. Will likely hand down to the kids with full size cans and continue to think about how to play with various tube options. Mjolnir 3?


----------



## riffrafff

Mike-WI said:


> I switched to the Vali 2 and on high gain their was a left/right imbalance -- at least on the low volume excursion



Yes, I believe that's fairly common with that Alps pot.


----------



## Mike-WI

riffrafff said:


> Yes, I believe that's fairly common with that Alps pot.


Thanks. Good to know. One of the small things that you get in an entry level product that improves as you move up the food chain.
I likely wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't been playing with IEMs.

Mike


----------



## Jacobh

Mike-WI said:


> I tried out my new Campfire Orion IEMs yesterday.
> Using the Jotunheim MB (via Yggy v2 DAC) on high gain I heard background noise. Switching to low gain made to noise floor almost not hearable.
> I switched to the Vali 2 and on high gain their was a left/right imbalance -- at least on the low volume excursion I could tolerate with the IEM.
> I forgot to try the Vali 2 with low gain, but will try that today.
> ...



In my experience, if you are listening with lower impedance or even mid-impedance but really efficient headphones you will hear background noise if you are paying attention.  Some tubes are worse than others, but I hear it with every tube I've tried (over 10) and those tubes are quiet in other amps.  With higher impedance headphones you can only notice it on high gain with some tubes.  I like the amp and how it easy it is to tube role, but I would only recommend it for high impedance headphones.


----------



## vadimkolchev

I own Little Dot MKIII. Can Vali be seen as upgrade or not?


----------



## Jacobh

vadimkolchev said:


> I own Little Dot MKIII. Can Vali be seen as upgrade or not?



The Little Dot III is an OTL amp where the Vali 2 is a hybrid.  So one isn't really an upgrade of the other as much as they are different types of amps.


----------



## Mike-WI

vadimkolchev said:


> I own Little Dot MKIII. Can Vali be seen as upgrade or not?





Jacobh said:


> The Little Dot III is an OTL amp where the Vali 2 is a hybrid.  So one isn't really an upgrade of the other as much as they are different types of amps.


You might be intersested in this...

Schiit VALHALLA 2
TRIODE OTL HEADPHONE AMP AND PREAMP
http://www.schiit.com/products/valhalla-2


----------



## Jim Bobber

Hey guys, very new to the tube amp world. I’ve got a set of HD800s’s on the way, a Vali 2, and I’ll be using this with my fiio X7MK II,

Just looking for any advice beyond the stock tube that might suit the 800’s?

Cheers,


----------



## timb5881 (Jul 4, 2018)

Jim Bobber said:


> Hey guys, very new to the tube amp world. I’ve got a set of HD800s’s on the way, a Vali 2, and I’ll be using this with my fiio X7MK II,
> 
> Just looking for any advice beyond the stock tube that might suit the 800’s?
> 
> Cheers,


Depends a lot on the music you like.   Some of the good all around tubes that are in production would include Genalex 6922, Electro Harmonix 6922 and the JJ 6922.  The last 2 being under $15 at The Tube Depot, $45 for the Genalex.  Always assume that Ebay sellers are not selling NOS as they state.  They maybe used often relabeled more abundant 7dj8 or Russian tubes.   The 7DJ8 Ei A frame with the dimpled disc getter is a muscular performer that can be had cheap, and I like them.   I have also seen some Tung-Sol and Tesla 6922/6DJ8 tubes that go for reasonable prices.  Try the EH and JJ 6922's from The Tube depot first and see how you like those, and go from there.


----------



## riffrafff

timb5881 said:


> Depends a lot on the music you like.   Some of the good all around tubes that are in production would include Genalex 6922, Electro Harmonix 6922 and the JJ 6922.  The last 2 being under $15 at The Tube Depot, $45 for the Genalex.  Always assume that Ebay sellers are not selling NOS as they state.  They maybe used often relabeled more abundant 7dj8 or Russian tubes.   The 7DJ8 Ei A frame with the dimpled disc getter is a muscular performer that can be had cheap, and I like them.   I have also seen some Tung-Sol and Tesla 6922/6DJ8 tubes that go for reasonable prices.  Try the EH and JJ 6922's from The Tube depot first and see how you like those, and go from there.



There is a "high gain" option for the Genalex 6922 on Tube Depot.  Would the Vali 2 benefit from this?


----------



## timb5881

riffrafff said:


> There is a "high gain" option for the Genalex 6922 on Tube Depot.  Would the Vali 2 benefit from this?


Maybe, but most likely not needed.   Wait and see how the stock tube works, if you need more gain, then the gain is needed.


----------



## bochawa

h.rav said:


> I just got a Vali 2. I notice the volume knob has been changed to something similar to Magni 3, Loki Mini.


I ordered a Vali 2 B-stock on June 20th and it arrived with the original style volume knob - glad I got one before they made the change.


----------



## Klots

Searching for a mint Vali2, EU version. If you are willing to sell or know someone who is, PM me! Thanks


----------



## Jacobh

Klots said:


> Searching for a mint Vali2, EU version. If you are willing to sell or know someone who is, PM me! Thanks



In case it helps you in your search, the amp itself should be the same, only the wall wart would be different.  The conversion from your local electricity voltage to the 24 / 6 VAC the amp needs happens in the wall wart. You can buy a wall wart separately from Schiit for about $16 and shipping.


----------



## Xyst

Curious if anyone has heard the Aeon Closed through the Vali 2? I'm wondering if they would pair well or not.

Thanks!


----------



## makmeksam (Sep 7, 2018)

Did anyone notice the new volume knob etc in vali2 on the product website?


----------



## Keno18

Samiyuru said:


> Did anyone noticed the new volume knob etc in vali2 on the product website?


Yes.


----------



## riffrafff

I'm pretty sure the new knob was mentioned a few weeks back.


----------



## makmeksam

riffrafff said:


> I'm pretty sure the new knob was mentioned a few weeks back.



Is it just that and the internals are still the same?


----------



## riffrafff

Samiyuru said:


> Is it just that and the internals are still the same?



I don't know about the internals.  The cut-out for the knob appears to be larger, which would make sense, of course.  I have the older Vali 2; maybe someone has both and could compare?


----------



## h.rav

riffrafff said:


> I'm pretty sure the new knob was mentioned a few weeks back.






h.rav said:


> I just got a Vali 2. I notice the volume knob has been changed to something similar to Magni 3, Loki Mini.



This


----------



## makmeksam

h.rav said:


> I just got a Vali 2. I notice the volume knob has been changed to something similar to Magni 3, Loki Mini.



This is slick!


----------



## Keno18

Have the sharp edges been tamed?


----------



## h.rav

Nope. There are still minor scratches here and there.


----------



## Suprmin

I just received this amp and am totally blown away. IMO this pairs extremely well with the Aeon Flow Opens. I guess it also helps that I’m feeding it a NOS Amperex gold pin PQ! I really don’t see myself upgrading to anything else anytime soon.


----------



## TheAnalogman

Anywho.....my Vali 2 arrived yesterday and upon first launch I was quite underwhelmed. Treble was kinda weird, bass was lacking on HiFiMan 560 and AKG K7xx. Things sounded dull. I couldn't see ANY text or info on the stock tube at all. Nada. I've read here about several people who were pleased with the stock tube. Not me. So in preperation for me NOT liking the named (or unnamed) stock tube, I had purchased a Phillips PCC88. A World of difference with the Phillips!! I used to think tubes mostly sounded the same.........not anymore. Now the little Vali 2 will most likely stay in the stable. The Phillips actually provided more powa too. So today I am pleased. I hope I will enjoy this as much as Schiit enjoys my $149 bux. Plus shipping.


----------



## Keno18

TheAnalogman said:


> Anywho.....my Vali 2 arrived yesterday and upon first launch I was quite underwhelmed.



That's the standard reaction of a new Vali 2 owner. That tube is put there for the sole purpose of making it easier to compare it withe the sound of another tube. in other words, it's essentially neutral on purpose. Head over to the "Vali 2 tube rolling" thread to see what other tubes users have found.


----------



## TheAnalogman (Sep 19, 2018)

Keno18 said:


> That's the standard reaction of a new Vali 2 owner. That tube is put there for the sole purpose of making it easier to compare it withe the sound of another tube. in other words, it's essentially neutral on purpose. Head over to the "Vali 2 tube rolling" thread to see what other tubes users have found.



I didn't even find it neutral. I thought it was poor. Just mho. Maybe I'll get a magnifying glass to revisit the stock tube.  Whew! That tube rolling thread is long!


----------



## riffrafff

My stock Vali 2 tube was "naked," too (sans printing).


----------



## Keno18

TheAnalogman said:


> I didn't even find it neutral. I thought it was poor. Just mho. Maybe I'll get a magnifying glass to revisit the stock tube.  Whew! That tube rolling thread is long!



That's why you can pick up another NOS 6bz7 for a whole $1.75! Very few people like it. As to the tube rolling thread, it may be long but it can save you time and money by pointing you to "good" tubes others have found. I wish I had had known about about that thread when I started blindly tube rolling when I first got my Bravo V2. Would've saved some money.


----------



## TheAnalogman

Keno18 said:


> That's why you can pick up another NOS 6bz7 for a whole $1.75! Very few people like it. As to the tube rolling thread, it may be long but it can save you time and money by pointing you to "good" tubes others have found. I wish I had had known about about that thread when I started blindly tube rolling when I first got my Bravo V2. Would've saved some money.


Thanks for the ideas, appreciate it.


----------



## Slashn77

I got these little feet in the mail from schiit because they said they forgot to include them in my order of the Vali 2.
Since these are non stick and much much smaller than the ones on my Mimby what is the best way to get these to stick on? Some very light adhesive someone can recommend that’s not messy? 
What feet are you using?


----------



## riffrafff

Slashn77 said:


> I got these little feet in the mail from schiit because they said they forgot to include them in my order of the Vali 2.
> Since these are non stick and much much smaller than the ones on my Mimby what is the best way to get these to stick on? Some very light adhesive someone can recommend that’s not messy?
> What feet are you using?



Those look the push-through feet.  My older-model Vali 2 came with self-adhesive feet, but they caused the Vali 2 to sit lower than the Schiit adjacent to it.  I found some self-adhesive feet at work that that worked perfectly.  Monday, I'll try to remember to see if we still have the vendor name/part number for them.


----------



## TheAnalogman

Shoe Goo applied with a toothpick should work well. Removable too.
https://www.amazon.com/Shoegoo-Shoe-GOO®-Adhesive-3-7/dp/B00135M0MM


----------



## h.rav

Slashn77 said:


> I got these little feet in the mail from schiit because they said they forgot to include them in my order of the Vali 2.
> Since these are non stick and much much smaller than the ones on my Mimby what is the best way to get these to stick on? Some very light adhesive someone can recommend that’s not messy?
> What feet are you using?



I don't think those feet will fit your Vali. Those feet will fit Modi Multibit, Eitr, Magni... They have drilled holes.


----------



## jaywillin

Slashn77 said:


> I got these little feet in the mail from schiit because they said they forgot to include them in my order of the Vali 2.
> Since these are non stick and much much smaller than the ones on my Mimby what is the best way to get these to stick on? Some very light adhesive someone can recommend that’s not messy?
> What feet are you using?



if you're looking for feet, I don't use what schiit includes, I use these 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003IMSIBA/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

they work GREAT !


----------



## Slashn77

Schiit emailed me back with a tracking number for the right feet already.
Appreciate the help!


----------



## riffrafff

Slashn77 said:


> Schiit emailed me back with a tracking number for the right feet already.
> Appreciate the help!



The stick-on feet Schiit supplied with my Vali 2 were not as tall as the push-through feet on my other Mini-Schiit boxes.  Not a problem in a stack, but an obvious height-disparity when side-by-side (as some of mine are).  What I got from work was 3M "Bumpons," either the SJ-5001 or SJ-5012 part numbers.  They are 12-13mm diameter, and 3.5mm tall.  Now my Schiit is all the same height.


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Oct 4, 2018)

riffrafff said:


> The stick-on feet Schiit supplied with my Vali 2 were not as tall as the push-through feet on my other Mini-Schiit boxes.  Not a problem in a stack, but an obvious height-disparity when side-by-side (as some of mine are).  What I got from work was 3M "Bumpons," either the SJ-5001 or SJ-5012 part numbers.  They are 12-13mm diameter, and 3.5mm tall.  Now my Schiit is all the same height.


My very first Schiit product (a ModiMB) was shipped to me without a S/N sticker on the back. I emailed tech-support, asking them to mail the missing sticker to me.  _*~48h later, a brand-new unit arrived by courrier. No RMA. No apparent obligation. *_When I re-contacted Schiit’s support department, I could hear the grimace across the ‘net (oh,... really.... that’s... GREAT... um, I didn’t send it... why yes,... please send the old unit back... I just emailed you a prepaid shipping label [I’m only slightly paraphrasing]). *This type of good-faith-trusting business habits is UNIQUE to me. And my product loyalty cranked up*... to 11.


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Oct 4, 2018)

TheAnalogman said:


> Anywho.....my Vali 2 arrived yesterday and upon first launch I was quite underwhelmed. Treble was kinda weird, bass was lacking on HiFiMan 560 and AKG K7xx. Things sounded dull. I couldn't see ANY text or info on the stock tube at all. Nada. I've read here about several people who were pleased with the stock tube. Not me. So in preperation for me NOT liking the named (or unnamed) stock tube, I had purchased a Phillips PCC88. A World of difference with the Phillips!! I used to think tubes mostly sounded the same.........not anymore. Now the little Vali 2 will most likely stay in the stable. The Phillips actually provided more powa too. So today I am pleased. I hope I will enjoy this as much as Schiit enjoys my $149 bux. Plus shipping.





Keno18 said:


> That's the standard reaction of a new Vali 2 owner. That tube is put there for the sole purpose of making it easier to compare it withe the sound of another tube. in other words, it's essentially neutral on purpose. Head over to the "Vali 2 tube rolling" thread to see what other tubes users have found.


@TheAnalogman & @Keno18 ... I appreciated your posting (so I can modify my preconcpetions about valve-amps).  I’m feeling the siren-call of the tube-headphone-amp. My Magni3 is a dandy device that all that I need. But what I want... what I want... is that incandescent glow... yesssssssss. 


riffrafff said:


> My stock Vali 2 tube was "naked," too (sans printing).


My little silver boxes also had SOME absent printing (I treat it as a quirk, and try not to let my knickers get into a knot about it).


----------



## Slashn77

Yes the support was very helpful with me as well and sent me out the right feet! Thanks for the help


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Astral Abyss said:


> You can't use 12v tubes in the Vali 2, or any other Schiit tube amp.


Crap. Good information. Thanks for posting, eh.


----------



## Keno18 (Oct 4, 2018)

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Crap. Good information. Thanks for posting, eh.


Uh, I've used 12au7s, 12at7s, and 12ax7s. You just need the right adapter. In my case a 12au7 to 6922 adapter found on ebay. Many other Headfiers have done the same thing. Check out the Vali 2 tube rolling thread. See my avatar.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

tomb said:


> The key is those two words above.  You want to keep things in context regarding the cost of this amp and rolling tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@tomb ... this was a ~2016 post. It’s a gold mind of information for us Schiitheads casting a a curious eye towards our first tube-fed head amp. A 3-year-old thanks, eh.


----------



## riffrafff

Keno18 said:


> Uh, I've used 12au7s, 12at7s, and 12ax7s. You just need the right adapter. In my case a 12au7 to 6922 adapter found on ebay. Many other Headfiers have done the same thing. Check out the Vali 2 tube rolling thread. See my avatar.



Yes, some 12V tubes work with an appropriate adapter, but only if they have a "center-tap" on the heater.


----------



## Mr Trev

Indeed the 12a-7 types will work with an adapter, seeing as they'll work with a 6v heater. Anything that needs a 12v heater will be SoL. Might even blowup in your face, leaving you looking like a vintage black-faced cartoon character à la Tom and Jerry

<ok, it probably won't blowup>


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Keno18 said:


> Uh, I've used 12au7s, 12at7s, and 12ax7s. You just need the right adapter. In my case a 12au7 to 6922 adapter found on ebay. Many other Headfiers have done the same thing. Check out the Vali 2 tube rolling thread. See my avatar.


Good info. Thanks again.


----------



## tomb

ScubaMan2017 said:


> @tomb ... this was a ~2016 post. It’s a gold mind of information for us Schiitheads casting a a curious eye towards our first tube-fed head amp. A 3-year-old thanks, eh.



Wow - I'm very humbled.  Thank you for the very kind remarks.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Mshenay said:


> No sadly I've not, :/
> 
> I'll put it to you this way
> 
> ...


This is a 3-4 year old posting. @Mshenay ... this was an excellent posting for proto-tube Schiitheads, like me. Thank, eh.


----------



## Keno18

ScubaMan2017 said:


> This is a 3-4 year old posting. @Mshenay ... this was an excellent posting for proto-tube Schiitheads, like me. Thank, eh.


What tipped the scales for me toward the Vali 2: 1. 60 volts on plate. 2. Automatic bias adjustment, 3. Bipolar class ab output. 4. Better power output to drive 300 ohm HD 6XX. 5. (Less important) Esthetics (a real case.)


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Keno18 said:


> What tipped the scales for me toward the Vali 2: 1. 60 volts on plate. 2. Automatic bias adjustment, 3. Bipolar class ab output. 4. Better power output to drive 300 ohm HD 6XX. 5. (Less important) Esthetics (a real case.)


As a middle age Scubaman, I like shiny things. The more dieselpunk, the better! My Magni3 is perfectly adequate for my can-collection. However,...


----------



## Keno18

ScubaMan2017 said:


> As a middle age Scubaman, I like shiny things. The more dieselpunk, the better! My Magni3 is perfectly adequate for my can-collection. However,...


i agree, i also own the Magni 3. I like to switch between the two. As an elderly techie I like to flip switches, turn knobs, watch lights go on and off.


----------



## TheAnalogman

ScubaMan2017 said:


> @TheAnalogman & @Keno18 ... I appreciated your posting (so I can modify my preconcpetions about valve-amps).  I’m feeling the siren-call of the tube-headphone-amp. My Magni3 is a dandy device that all that I need. But what I want... what I want... is that incandescent glow... yesssssssss.



Indeed! Its fun and cheap.


----------



## Makiah S

Keno18 said:


> What tipped the scales for me toward the Vali 2: 1. 60 volts on plate. 2. Automatic bias adjustment, 3. Bipolar class ab output. 4. Better power output to drive 300 ohm HD 6XX. 5. (Less important) Esthetics (a real case.)



Oh neat, glad to see some one still reads over these old posts.

I think in my old review I also mentioned the Vali 2 has a little higher output which is handy for planars. But @Keno18 if you get the time try to hear the starlight or don't. Honestly once you hit the $300+ price point there are amps that sound MUCH better than both. 

 Still 



> 1. 60 volts on plate 3. Bipolar class ab output. 4. Better power output to drive 300 ohm HD 6XX. 5. (Less important) Esthetics (a real case.)



As much as I hate to say it but, 1, 3, 4 and 5 are all moot reasons. Just proof that schiit clearly knows how to market their product because all of their marketing sold you! An that's ok, the Vali 2 is a pretty solid choice 

Now here's the funny part, Schiit actually has my review of the Vali 2 posted on their website, and I'm ok with that because frankly in the price range a think Schiits target audience will appreciate the Vali 2 more. It's an excellent amp, and with all the tube rolling options you can fix some of the tonal issues I had with it, PLUS [and most importantly] it auto biases. Manual bias adjustment after EVERY tube roll is annoying, and if you don't set it right you'll only detriment the sound quality. So for any one whose never owned a tube amp, the Vali 2 is an excellent option. 

Simply because as much as you can change how the Starlight sounds for the better, those changes can also work again'st the listener. Thankfully, I owned like 2 or 3 heavily modded Starving Student Hybrids and one of those G1217 looka like Chinese Hybrid tubes. So I was handy with my multi meter and already used to tinkering around with stuff.


----------



## Keno18

Mshenay said:


> Oh neat, glad to see some one still reads over these old posts.
> 
> I think in my old review I also mentioned the Vali 2 has a little higher output which is handy for planars. But @Keno18 if you get the time try to hear the starlight or don't. Honestly once you hit the $300+ price point there are amps that sound MUCH better than both.
> 
> ...


I don't feel those points are moot. First I'm not about to spend $300 on an amp that *might* sound better, second, my first amp was a Bravo V2, then a Little Bear P1 and I can tell you from direct experience that tubes that had trouble playing in those amps played perfectly in  the Vali. Not marketing, my experience. Specifically a12ax7 wouldn't function at all, and a Gray plate RCA 12au7 was distorted. A third RCA clear top also didn't play up to snuff. As I said all worked perfectly in the Vali.


----------



## Makiah S

Keno18 said:


> I don't feel those points are moot. First I'm not about to spend $300 on an amp that *might* sound better, second, my first amp was a Bravo V2, then a Little Bear P1 and I can tell you from direct experience that tubes that had trouble playing in those amps played perfectly in  the Vali. Not marketing, my experience. Specifically a12ax7 wouldn't function at all, and a Gray plate RCA 12au7 was distorted. A third RCA clear top also didn't play up to snuff. As I said all worked perfectly in the Vali.



The Vali 2 is an excellent choice, especially coming from a Bravo. I had a heavy modded Indeed G3 it was fickle with some things as well. If your 60volts per plate reason has 2 do with tube compatibility then it's certainly worthwhile reason. Stated numbers will have different significance for different people. Some people think higher output power or just "MORE VOLTAGE" is going to be magically make headphones sound better which isn't always the case. 

But the Starlight n Vali 2 both worked with tubes my old Indeed G3 couldn't handle...

As for *might* you might think Project Ember sounds better than the vali 2 or you might think of secondhand Little Dot MK4 sounds better than the vali 2. You also might think the Valhalla 2 sounds better than the Vali 2. You might also think that a DIY Project at around $300 sounds better than the Vali 2.

From my first-hand experience there are a lot of amps that I think sound better than the Vali 2 at an around $300 price point whether you think they sound better depends on you because you might think they're better you might think they're worse. So don't think I'm attacking you,

I just think arguing on which is the better 150 amp is moot assuming at some point you're going to want to upgrade and when you upgrade you going to find options that are better than any incremental Improvement you could introduce with a Vali 2 or Starlight.

And finally you may have no desire to ever upgrade and if that's the case then the vali 2 is a perfectly fine amp to have and enjoy!!

Even though I've sold my project Starlight I still keep a Vali 1 on one of my entry-level reviews systems cuz I think it's Dandy. And frankly despite all the problems it has if something horrible happened to me and I had to sell everything I own I would probably keep it one of my daps and a modded Grado an be content.

That is to say there's nothing wrong with the vali 2 there's nothing wrong with enjoying the vali 2 there's nothing wrong with recommending the vali 2 friends as it's a good amp. 

I would just moving forward try to listen to options before you make your decision based on stated numbers or Distortion graphs or power specs. Doing so will help you make better buying decisions for yourself!!  Especially when you do decide to upgrade!! It'll turn those "mights" into "does" and "will"


----------



## Keno18

Mshenay said:


> The Vali 2 is an excellent choice, especially coming from a Bravo. I had a heavy modded Indeed G3 it was fickle with some things as well. If your 60volts per plate reason has 2 do with tube compatibility then it's certainly worthwhile reason. Stated numbers will have different significance for different people. Some people think higher output power or just "MORE VOLTAGE" is going to be magically make headphones sound better which isn't always the case.
> 
> But the Starlight n Vali 2 both worked with tubes my old Indeed G3 couldn't handle...
> 
> ...



I don't assume. I use what sounds better to me. I also don't need anyone to validate my choice of equipment. If I cared that much i would have foregone my daughter's education and invested in something more expensive and wasteful.


----------



## Makiah S

Keno18 said:


> I don't assume. I use what sounds better to me. I also don't need anyone to validate my choice of equipment. If I cared that much i would have foregone my daughter's education and invested in something more expensive and wasteful.



What sounds better, so did you listen to both products? If so, awesome! Again the Vali 2s a good choice, not my personal first but if you liked it better then that's great! 

I haven't read the whole thread over again so forgive me if I'm asking old questions but, what tube do you enjoy with your Vali


----------



## Keno18 (Oct 6, 2018)

Mshenay said:


> What sounds better, so did you listen to both products? If so, awesome! Again the Vali 2s a good choice, not my personal first but if you liked it better then that's great!
> 
> I haven't read the whole thread over again so forgive me if I'm asking old questions but, what tube do you enjoy with your Vali


I bought from Amazon because they allow returns, then I bought from Schiit for the same reason. I liked what i heard so I kept it. In this case both the Magni 3 and Vali 2. As for tubes right now there are three that I listen to: the Tung-Sol 6SN7, Electro Harmomix 12AU7, and the RCA 12AU7 Clear Top. I try to stay with tubes that are sourced easily and reasonably priced.


----------



## xformulax (Oct 10, 2018)

If you wanted to feed a tube amp AND a SS amp (say vali and magni) with a mimby signal, whats the best way to accomplish this?  I think I read the schiit sys can work "backwards" as far as 1 in / 2 out with the volume knob cranked?  (basically I have a stack incoming, and thinking about adding the vali 2 as well for specific cans.)


----------



## Makiah S

xformulax said:


> If you wanted to feed a tube amp AND a SS amp (say vali and magni) with a mimby signal, whats the best way to accomplish this?  I think I read the schiit sys can work "backwards" as far as 1 in / 2 out with the volume knob cranked?  (basically I have a stack incoming, and thinking about adding the vali 2 as well for specific cans.)



It sure can work two ways, I use it  backwards and forwards often. I also have both a solid state and tube amp for my various headphones, but I recommend splitting your Dac into multiple amps with the SYS rather than feeding multiple amp into the SYS and switching between them. This is because the SYS is a variable resistor and I would add a resistor before the amp, not after, 

But I guess if you set it to it's least resistive setting it should be fine the problem though is you have to feed the headphone out into a pre amp soooo logistically it would be messy

The other question you have to face is what do you set the amps to? If you set them to their max output and use the SYS to control volume it will degrade the sound quality. More gain equals more noise and feeding MAX gain and MAX Noise into a resistor will only help you control the decibels of the output. You'll still have max noise even with less db's 

What I do is use my SYS to feed my DAC into two amps, and my amps are at the font of my system and I control volume from there. Since the Dac has only 1 output setting there's no risk of increased noise and I keep the SYS at it's least resistive setting 

What you COULD do is maybe use the Pre Out of your Vali 2 to feed into the Magni and use the Magni with everything. Many really like using a Tube Preamp with a Solid State amp. The Pre out of the Vali 2 should again be a fixed output and have less noise than using the loudest output of the Headphone Out but even then you have two resistive loads in your signal. So either run each amp seperate with a SYS inbetween your DAC and each amp, hit the switch on the sys to switch between the two amps. OR Use the Vali 2 as your Pre Amp between your Dac and a Magni and run everything with the Magni


----------



## Keno18

xformulax said:


> If you wanted to feed a tube amp AND a SS amp (say vali and magni) with a mimby signal, whats the best way to accomplish this?  I think I read the schiit sys can work "backwards" as far as 1 in / 2 out with the volume knob cranked?  (basically I have a stack incoming, and thinking about adding the vali 2 as well for specific cans.)


I asked that question of Schiit tech support and they said the SYS can be used that way, but they pointed to a FAQ answer that says just use a split-er or "Y" connector and connect both amps at the same time to the output of the mimby. I used an ifi nano BL instead of the mimby but the split-er worked perfectly for me. Both amps work without interference.


----------



## Makiah S

Keno18 said:


> I asked that question of Schiit tech support and they said the SYS can be used that way, but they pointed to a FAQ answer that says just use a split-er or "Y" connector and connect both amps at the same time to the output of the mimby. I used an ifi nano BL instead of the mimby but the split-er worked perfectly for me. Both amps work without interference.



Good idea too, will all schiit amps work this way with all Schiit Dacs? Though I suppose when you upgrade your DAC the Gumby or Better you'll get multiple Line Outs. Still will other amps from them work without interference via said "Y" connector. If so then that's a great solution! Though @xformulax I would suggest that if you intend to own products other than schiit that only have a single output you invest in the SYS just to be safe, but if your going to stick with schiit for a while Y Cable awaaaay


----------



## Keno18

No mention was made of any particular combination to avoid, the tech didn't know what combination of equipment I was referring to, he seemed to imply it didn't matter.


----------



## riffrafff

Keno18 said:


> ...or "Y" connector and connect both amps at the same time to the output of the mimby...



That's what I do.  _*I*_ detect no difference in SQ.  My Schiit-chain looks like this:

CPU->Eitr->Mimby->Loki Mini->y-cables->Magni 3 and Vali 2->those into->SYS (2-into-1, and then into my active near-field speakers on my desk).  

The SYS, in this configuration, always has its "volume" pot maxed out. 


 


An earlier photo I took for someone asking about the Y-cables:


----------



## xformulax (Oct 11, 2018)

Mshenay said:


> It sure can work two ways, I use it  backwards and forwards often. I also have both a solid state and tube amp for my various headphones, but I recommend splitting your Dac into multiple amps with the SYS rather than feeding multiple amp into the SYS and switching between them. This is because the SYS is a variable resistor and I would add a resistor before the amp, not after,
> 
> But I guess if you set it to it's least resistive setting it should be fine the problem though is you have to feed the headphone out into a pre amp soooo logistically it would be messy
> 
> ...



Thanks for the detailed response.



Keno18 said:


> I asked that question of Schiit tech support and they said the SYS can be used that way, but they pointed to a FAQ answer that says just use a split-er or "Y" connector and connect both amps at the same time to the output of the mimby. I used an ifi nano BL instead of the mimby but the split-er worked perfectly for me. Both amps work without interference.



Thanks, I have reached out to info@schiit.com with the same question and I'm waiting for reply.


----------



## xformulax (Oct 11, 2018)

riffrafff said:


> That's what I do.  _*I*_ detect no difference in SQ.  My Schiit-chain looks like this:
> 
> CPU->Eitr->Mimby->Loki Mini->y-cables->Magni 3 and Vali 2->those into->SYS (2-into-1, and then into my active near-field speakers on my desk).
> 
> ...



Thanks for the photos, very helpful, this sounds like the exact scenario (minus the LOKI) that I was thinking of.  Can you look at this diagram and verify the statements are true (and the connections?) You can ignore the TOSlink/HT setup in blue.  And I wouldn't even need the SYS if I just wanted the monitors on the MAGNI?


----------



## riffrafff

xformulax said:


> Thanks for the photos, very helpful, this sounds like the exact scenario (minus the LOKI) that I was thinking of.  Can you look at this diagram and verify the statements are true (and the connections?) You can ignore the TOSlink/HT setup in blue.  And I wouldn't even need the SYS if I just wanted the monitors on the MAGNI?



Yep, looks good.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

xformulax said:


> If you wanted to feed a tube amp AND a SS amp (say vali and magni) with a mimby signal, whats the best way to accomplish this?  I think I read the schiit sys can work "backwards" as far as 1 in / 2 out with the volume knob cranked?  (basically I have a stack incoming, and thinking about adding the vali 2 as well for specific cans.)


The SYS box is a dandy switch. Schiit's site emphasizes that it's a passive switch that can work backwards (an expensive option). See FAQ number 8 on their site. I have INPUT-1 going to a radio several meters away... INPUT-2 going to a ModiMB. You want (a source) >>> SYS >>> amp1 + amp2. Should work w/o issue. My 2 cents (from the cheap seats)...


----------



## Jacobh

ScubaMan2017 said:


> The SYS box is a dandy switch. Schiit's site emphasizes that it's a passive switch that can work backwards (an expensive option). See FAQ number 8 on their site. I have INPUT-1 going to a radio several meters away... INPUT-2 going to a ModiMB. You want (a source) >>> SYS >>> amp1 + amp2. Should work w/o issue. My 2 cents (from the cheap seats)...



If you just want to split a signal as described, as both Schiit support and other posters have said a RCA Y-cable is fine and there will be no noticeable signal degradation.  If you want to switch and only feed one at a time, then you need a switch.  You can use a backwards SYS for this if you like the look, but you can find cheaper switches if you only want to switch.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Jacobh said:


> If you just want to split a signal as described, as both Schiit support and other posters have said a RCA Y-cable is fine and there will be no noticeable signal degradation.  If you want to switch and only feed one at a time, then you need a switch.  You can use a backwards SYS for this if you like the look, but you can find cheaper switches if you only want to switch.



Well, I ordered my *first* tube amp... yep, a Vali. I noticed the Lyr’s on backorder until at least the end of October. 

NOW I understand a bit more of what @xformulax & @riffrafff were discussing about routing audio to various amp/pre-amp destinations. I tried making those RCA Y-splitter on the cheap, with scrap coxial cable - without success. I don’t want a tangle of 75 ohm cable tucked behind my little silver boxes. Answer: Amazon Basics.... even with the Canadian dollar at what it is, my cables will cost $7-10/piece + shipping. 

Cables. Y-splitters. Grandma’s NOS. Yep, time to hit the garage sales, and those ghoulish “contents sales” about town. If I want to keep my costs down, I might even visit a pawn shop (first time for me).


----------



## xformulax

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Well, I ordered my *first* tube amp... yep, a Vali. I noticed the Lyr’s on backorder until at least the end of October.
> 
> NOW I understand a bit more of what @xformulax & @riffrafff were discussing about routing audio to various amp/pre-amp destinations. I tried making those RCA Y-splitter on the cheap, with scrap coxial cable - without success. I don’t want a tangle of 75 ohm cable tucked behind my little silver boxes. Answer: Amazon Basics.... even with the Canadian dollar at what it is, my cables will cost $7-10/piece + shipping.
> 
> Cables. Y-splitters. Grandma’s NOS. Yep, time to hit the garage sales, and those ghoulish “contents sales” about town. If I want to keep my costs down, I might even visit a pawn shop (first time for me).


 
Nice, I actually found these that I had from a clearance set of long RCA's I got for my subwoofers a few years back.  My only concern is if they're rotated and the ground touches each other?  I'll likely get the wyvern y-cable on amazon so I won't have to worry about it, or plasti-dip spray the "body" of the connectors.


----------



## Keno18 (Oct 13, 2018)

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Well, I ordered my *first* tube amp... yep, a Vali. I noticed the Lyr’s on backorder until at least the end of October.
> 
> NOW I understand a bit more of what @xformulax & @riffrafff were discussing about routing audio to various amp/pre-amp destinations. I tried making those RCA Y-splitter on the cheap, with scrap coxial cable - without success. I don’t want a tangle of 75 ohm cable tucked behind my little silver boxes. Answer: Amazon Basics.... even with the Canadian dollar at what it is, my cables will cost $7-10/piece + shipping.
> 
> Cables. Y-splitters. Grandma’s NOS. Yep, time to hit the garage sales, and those ghoulish “contents sales” about town. If I want to keep my costs down, I might even visit a pawn shop (first time for me).


Take a look at Monoprice on Amazon, I'm ordering mine for about $5.50 per cable and Monoprice is recommended by Schiit Audio.
BTW: Congrats on the Vali, good choice.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

xformulax said:


> Nice, I actually found these that I had from a clearance set of long RCA's I got for my subwoofers a few years back.  My only concern is if they're rotated and the ground touches each other?  I'll likely get the wyvern y-cable on amazon so I won't have to worry about it, or plasti-dip spray the "body" of the connectors.


Eerie connection! And plastic sprayon insulator!? Nice. 


Keno18 said:


> Take a look at Monoprice on Amazon, I'm ordering mine for about $5.50 per cable and Monoprice is recommended by Schiit Audio.
> BTW: Congrats on the Vali, good choice.


My wife muses that all my hobbies are expensive: SCUBA, telescopes, chainsaws, bushcraft knives,...  It’ll either be Amazon Basics or Monoprice.


----------



## Keno18

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Eerie connection! And plastic sprayon insulator!? Nice.
> 
> My wife muses that all my hobbies are expensive: SCUBA, telescopes, chainsaws, bushcraft knives,...  It’ll either be Amazon Basics or Monoprice.


Gee, what a coincidence, my wife feels the same way. Mine are computers  (8), Home Theater and movie collecting as well as headfi.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Keno18 said:


> Gee, what a coincidence, my wife feels the same way. Mine are computers  (8), Home Theater and movie collecting as well as headfi.


...tack on tear-assing around my woodlot on an ATV and being a gentleman-forester. Heh.


----------



## Keno18

ScubaMan2017 said:


> ...tack on tear-assing around my woodlot on an ATV and being a gentleman-forester. Heh.


Well, that explains the chainsaws .


----------



## ScubaMan2017

My very first tube headphone amplifier arrived yesterday. And it’s exactly what I hoped for....

_Um, I don’t hear aural nirvanna. The glass tube looks like a smoldering reefer. And my tinnitus flared up. Where’s the magic? _


----------



## Keno18

ScubaMan2017 said:


> My very first tube headphone amplifier arrived yesterday. And it’s exactly what I hoped for....
> 
> _Um, I don’t hear aural nirvanna. The glass tube looks like a smoldering reefer. And my tinnitus flared up. Where’s the magic? _


The stock tube supplied is anything but nirvana. Head over to the Vali 2 tube rolling thread to get ideas. I have my own preferences but that would be off-topic here.


----------



## Mike-WI

Keno18 said:


> The stock tube supplied is anything but nirvana. Head over to the Vali 2 tube rolling thread to get ideas. I have my own preferences but that would be off-topic here.


How is tubes for the Vali 2 off topic for the Vali 2 thread?


----------



## Jacobh

Mike-WI said:


> How is tubes for the Vali 2 off topic for the Vali 2 thread?



I guess because there is a separate tube rolling thread?  

My understanding is the stock tube changes a bit based on what their current supply looks like.  While it may never be a great tube, I do think it's worthwhile for people to listen to it for a while before jumping into tube rolling.  This way they get a better understanding of how tubes affect the sound.


----------



## Keno18

Mike-WI said:


> How is tubes for the Vali 2 off topic for the Vali 2 thread?


I thought the subject of tube rolling itself would be off topic, didn't want to break any rules. If it's OK then I'll make my suggestions here.


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Oct 18, 2018)

Mike-WI said:


> How is tubes for the Vali 2 off topic for the Vali 2 thread?


I understand why the OP (@inseconds99 [back in 2015])  might have decided  to split it up... This thread's about making this little doohicky work (and compare it to other gadgets out there).


Keno18 said:


> I thought the subject of tube rolling itself would be off topic, didn't want to break any rules. If it's OK then I'll make my suggestions here.


It's cool. I've already been censured by the moderators on Mr. Stodard's thread (I got gung-ho about discussing practical firearm safety... and that's a no no).


Jacobh said:


> I guess because there is a separate tube rolling thread?
> There's a separate rolling thread for Vali2? Huh... I'm easy. I'll post where ever it's appropriate.
> My understanding is the stock tube changes a bit based on what their current supply looks like.  While it may never be a great tube, I do think it's worthwhile for people to listen to it for a while before jumping into tube rolling.  This way they get a better understanding of how tubes affect the sound.


Indeed. I'm going to cool it with the purchases until I let the stock tube settle in. I was expecting a bit more printing on the tube... I found a faint code number (picked up by my iPhone). It has no other markings. _I'll fantasize it being some NOS pulled from a NORAD, GoldenEye, or the DEW line facility..._ 

{edited = yep, added an image}


----------



## Mr Trev

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I understand why the OP (@inseconds99 [back in 2015])  might have decided  to split it up... This thread's about making this little doohicky work (and compare it to other gadgets out there).
> 
> It's cool. I've already been censured by the moderators on Mr. Stodard's thread (I got gung-ho about discussing practical firearm safety... and that's a no no).
> 
> ...



I'm not too sure I've read anybody say anything too positive about the stock tube, probably why the markings are scrubbed off - so nobody can actually identify what it really is.

Looking at your location, have a browse through CAM. There are plenty of tube sellers in the GTA. I'm sure you can easily find something better for a reasonable price.


----------



## riffrafff

ScubaMan2017 said:


> ...I got gung-ho about discussing practical firearm safety... and that's a no no...



LOL.  Yeah, safety and responsible ownership's bad, m'kay?


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Oct 19, 2018)

Jacobh said:


> If you just want to split a signal as described, as both Schiit support and other posters have said a RCA Y-cable is fine and there will be no noticeable signal degradation.  If you want to switch and only feed one at a time, then you need a switch.  You can use a backwards SYS for this if you like the look, but you can find cheaper switches if you only want to switch.


Made sense. I moved my SYS to a more useful location in my “chain”.


xformulax said:


> Nice, I actually found these that I had from a clearance set of long RCA's I got for my subwoofers a few years back.  My only concern is if they're rotated and the ground touches each other?  I'll likely get the wyvern y-cable on amazon so I won't have to worry about it, or plasti-dip spray the "body" of the connectors.


...just to add content to the thread...
...and noticed I misspelled ‘made’ on my image. Sigh...


----------



## ScubaMan2017

What an unusual little toaster! For spoken word, like podcasts or horror fiction, my solid state (S/S?) head-amp makes it easier to detect all the weird inflections and ticks of the voice artist. For strings (like what I’m listening to right now [Benjamin Britten’s cello suite #1]), my new tube amp excels. Do I detect a background hiss (high-gain flicked up, HD650 clones, fresh morning ears, tweaking on Saturday morning coffee)? I perceive it as a gentle whooshing noise that gets drowned out by the tunes. With the way Schiit stock tubes were described on the thread, I was expecting a snowy-white-noise-hiss-fit. I was wrong. 

@SchiitFerBrainz ... let your fellow assemblers know of my appreciation, eh.


----------



## Jacobh

My Vali 2 has some hum. It’s not audible on most tunes on low gain with something like the 650. It is if you are listening for it on high gain with many tubes, but you have to listen for it. With lower impedance headphones it’s much more pronounced with certain tubes.


----------



## Keno18

I guess my ears aren't what they used to be. I haven't been able to detect any noise in either high or low gain on my Vali 2 with 6XXs. Oh well, ignorance is bliss. I was reading some posts on the Vali's use of negative feedback and found that the characteristic of the tube used shows through better at the high gain setting because less negative feedback is applied at that setting. Low gain applies more so you get less distortion and less tube sound. Didn't know that.


----------



## jnak00

I don't get any hum with the HD6XXs, but I do with the TH-X00 on high gain.  Stock tube.


----------



## Mr Trev

ScubaMan2017 said:


> What an unusual little toaster! For spoken word, like podcasts or horror fiction, my solid state (S/S?) head-amp makes it easier to detect all the weird inflections and ticks of the voice artist. For strings (like what I’m listening to right now [Benjamin Britten’s cello suite #1]), my new tube amp excels. Do I detect a background hiss (high-gain flicked up, HD650 clones, fresh morning ears, tweaking on Saturday morning coffee)? I perceive it as a gentle whooshing noise that gets drowned out by the tunes. With the way Schiit stock tubes were described on the thread, I was expecting a snowy-white-noise-hiss-fit. I was wrong.
> 
> @SchiitFerBrainz ... let your fellow assemblers know of my appreciation, eh.



Tubes can pick up noise from different sources. Cellphones, Wifi, etc. First step would be to make sure those type of things are well away from the amp. Of course using low gain should help lower the noise floor - although with 650 "clones"(?) you're probably better off with high gain.
The type/condition of the tube can also affect the type or amount of noise - some tubes just have noise.
Also, it seem that tubes are the only thing that people agree are improved by burn-in. The noise may go away after a few days of use


----------



## jackasstimO

Hello dear Headphone experts,

2 years ago i bought myself a pair of used AKG Q701 and Soundblaster Z soundcard, over the last months i found out that the soundcard was limiting my headphones and so i started searching for a good DAC/AMP combo with a good bang for the buck.
Right now i narrowed it down to a Modi paired with a Vali 2. My question now is:

I have been reading a lot about how my headphones sound with the Vali 1 and the Vali 2. It seems like the Vali 1 would be the better match, as it warms up the headhphones quiet a bit more than the Vali 2 does. 
So i thought about tube rolling the Vali 2.
I also put a bit of time into searching through some tubes and ended up with this one:

PCC88 / 7DJ8 NOS

Does anyone know if this fits my expectations? I am mainly listening to Electronic Musik (Techno, Drum´n´Bass, etc) but also enjoy myself some Indie or Alternative.
I want my AKGs to sound alive and enhance their bass a bit, as they seem a bit to neutral for me, when driven with my old soundcard.

Would gladly appreciate any tips or answers and hope i can finally by my first real set up. 

Thanks already and hope my english is sufficient as I´m from Germany!

With kind regards,

Timo


----------



## CrispApple

Had no idea tubes could change how the sounds are, that's very interesting.

This is my first amplifier so I don't really have anything to compare it with, I believe the tube on mine is an Amperex Bugle Boy.
Going to look around to see what other tubes I can use with it, should probably do some research on this tube too haha.


----------



## Keno18 (Oct 23, 2018)

CrispApple said:


> Had no idea tubes could change how the sounds are, that's very interesting.
> 
> This is my first amplifier so I don't really have anything to compare it with, I believe the tube on mine is an Amperex Bugle Boy.
> Going to look around to see what other tubes I can use with it, should probably do some research on this tube too haha.


I'm not personally familiar with that tube, but from looking around at other posts you lucked out again. There are plenty of tubes to look at. Go to the "Vali 2 tube rolling" thread to see what others are using and, of course, ask questions.


----------



## CrispApple

Keno18 said:


> I'm not personally familiar with that tube, but from looking around at other posts you lucked out again. There are plenty of tubes to look at. Go to the "Vali 2 tube rolling" thread to see what others are using and ,of course, ask questions.



Thanks a lot!
Going to spend a bit of time time on that thread.


----------



## Keno18

I didn't think interconnects would make that much of a difference. Evidently they do. I had been using a simple TRS Y connector at the output of an ifi nano BL: 


Then switched to inexpensive discreet Monoprice Y connectors:
 

All-round better sound and imaging.


----------



## riffrafff

Keno18 said:


> I didn't think interconnects would make that much of a difference. Evidently they do. I had been using a simple TRS Y connector at the output of an ifi nano BL:
> 
> Then switched to inexpensive discreet Monoprice Y connectors:
> 
> ...



Some of the Monoprice stuff works well.


----------



## Lasakro

Wonderful thread from newbe head-fi listener here. Earlier today I uploaded to Thingiverse this Schiit Mini Stack mount for those with a 3D printer. Very solid and really helps them from not moving around. Enjoy.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3207569


----------



## Mike-WI

Lasakro said:


> Wonderful thread from newbe head-fi listener here. Earlier today I uploaded to Thingiverse this Schiit Mini Stack mount for those with a 3D printer. Very solid and really helps them from not moving around. Enjoy.
> 
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3207569


Very cool


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Lasakro said:


> Wonderful thread from newbe head-fi listener here. Earlier today I uploaded to Thingiverse this Schiit Mini Stack mount for those with a 3D printer. Very solid and really helps them from not moving around. Enjoy.
> 
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3207569



Pssst, @Jason Stoddard ... @SchiitFerBrainz  .... @Baldr  . Would you consider selling such organisation-accessories for your stacks? It might reduce the frequency of boxes slipping off tables and shattering on the floor. It's like an Otter-box for smart-phones.  Just my 2 cents...


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Pssst, @Jason Stoddard ... @SchiitFerBrainz  .... @Baldr  . Would you consider selling such organisation-accessories for your stacks? It might reduce the frequency of boxes slipping off tables and shattering on the floor. It's like an Otter-box for smart-phones.  Just my 2 cents...


I would buy one!


----------



## Jim85IROC

I just picked up a Vali 2 and a Modi to use at work.  For the weekend I have them set up at home, and I just noticed that after I turned on the Vali, after 15 seconds or so, there's a lot pop in the headphones.  I know that there's a delay in output while the tube warms up, but is the loud pop normal?


----------



## Keno18

Jim85IROC said:


> I just picked up a Vali 2 and a Modi to use at work.  For the weekend I have them set up at home, and I just noticed that after I turned on the Vali, after 15 seconds or so, there's a lot pop in the headphones.  I know that there's a delay in output while the tube warms up, but is the loud pop normal?


Yes it is. It depends on the sensitivity of the headphones and the tube used.


----------



## RickB

Jim85IROC said:


> I just picked up a Vali 2 and a Modi to use at work.  For the weekend I have them set up at home, and I just noticed that after I turned on the Vali, after 15 seconds or so, there's a lot pop in the headphones.  I know that there's a delay in output while the tube warms up, but is the loud pop normal?



Yes, it's normal. So far, my headphones have been undamaged by the pop.


----------



## Jim85IROC

wow, that's sad.  The $30 amplifier I use to power my bathroom speakers doesn't even do that.


----------



## Jacobh

It’s probably not a tube amp though and works completely differently.  It’s normal for this type of amp, but if it worries you than wait 10 seconds before plugging in your headphones.


----------



## Jim85IROC

Just because it has a tube in the signal path doesn't really change how a turn-on relay at the output would work other than the delay.  It still shouldn't have a pop.


----------



## Jacobh

The Vali 2 has a muting relay and it’s even mentioned in the manual. The tube in the signal path does make a diference and it’s why you don’t hear the pop at turn on but several seconds after.


----------



## Jim85IROC

Yes, it has a muting relay.  Unfortunately, when the relay closes, it creates a brutally loud "pop".  I can hear it through the headphones when they're sitting on my desk.


----------



## tafens

My Magni2 Uber gave a good pop into my old 120 ohms headphones. I mailed Schiit about it and they said it was normal. I didn’t doubt that and I never noticed any ill effect on the headphones because of it either.


----------



## Keno18

I find that certain tubes produce a much lower pop. For example a 12au7 will be about the quietest. You just need a 12au7 to 6922 socket adapter. A 6sn7 will be much louder.


----------



## Jacobh

What headphones are you using?  Are you sure you aren’t hearing the relay when it’s not on your ears?  If it’s loud enough to hear loudly when they aren’t on your head and you aren’t using very efficient headphones that would not be normal. 

Every tube amp I’ve had has some amount of pop even with a relay, but nothing I would hear if the headphones were a few feet away on my desk.


----------



## Jim85IROC

The cans are monoprice M1060s,  and yeah, I can hear the pop from the phones when they're on my desk.


----------



## thebmc

Jim85IROC said:


> The cans are monoprice M1060s,  and yeah, I can hear the pop from the phones when they're on my desk.


I get a very audible pop on my he400i as well. I've had the setup almost a year with no issues. My office is quiet and small, but it's audible when the phones are off my head as well. Always wondered if it was an issue.


----------



## jnak00

I don't like the pop, harmless or not. I just wait until the relay clicks in before plugging my headphone in.


----------



## Jim85IROC

I'm not real keen on unplugging and replugging the headphones every day, but I suppose I'll have to get into the habit.


----------



## Jacobh

Jim85IROC said:


> The cans are monoprice M1060s,  and yeah, I can hear the pop from the phones when they're on my desk.



Those are relatively low impedence (50 ohm) and high efficiency (96 db / mw). They also look really open, so what you are describing is possible.  The good news is they can handle a lot of power (spikes up to 10w and extended up to 4w), it’s unlikely it would damage anything. There are also no paper cones to rip. If you hear the mechanical click, it may not be a defect. 

Honestly, the Vali may not be the best amp for those headphones (that the pop is loud might be a symptom of that). It’s a hybrid amp, but I find mine too noisy with most tubes and more efficient headphones. If it’s only the pop that bothers you and you like the sound otherwise, then I wouldn’t worry about it too much.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Jim85IROC said:


> I'm not real keen on unplugging and replugging the headphones every day, but I suppose I'll have to get into the habit.


If unplugging a headphone jack is going to stress you out, might I suggest listening to speakers. At least you would not have to lift those heavy objects and put them over your ears 

Now, seriously, I have the Vali 2 here beside of me, and I have heard a click and a pop as the amplifier engages, but the Heavenly sound in my Sennheisers is so luxurious with the Telefunken E88CC-TK tube, a little click or a pop, even a sizzle when my static electric charges disapate by touching the volume control are so very minor,  by comparison to the Music I get to hear, I am wondering if my Vali 2 is special?


----------



## Jacobh

Robert Padgett said:


> Now, seriously, I have the Vali 2 here beside of me, and I have heard a click and a pop as the amplifier engages, but the Heavenly sound in my Sennheisers is so luxurious with the Telefunken E88CC-TK tube, a little click or a pop, even a sizzle when my static electric charges disapate by touching the volume control are so very minor,  by comparison to the Music I get to hear, I am wondering if my Vali 2 is special?



The Senns are a much better match for the Vali. They are high impedance (relatively efficient though), so the noise floor isn’t as big a deal. The pop is also likely less loud. 

Ultimately it comes down to what sounds good to you and any quality of life features an amp provides.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Jacobh said:


> The Senns are a much better match for the Vali. They are high impedance (relatively efficient though), so the noise floor isn’t as big a deal. The pop is also likely less loud.
> 
> Ultimately it comes down to what sounds good to you and any quality of life features an amp provides.



Agree, the Senns are delightful HPs. If it is only a pop, when the relay engages, that would be part of the "Tube experience" to which I am very new and wouldn't even think it odd, until someone mentions how annoying it has become. Everything pops and cracks and sizzles on my system...due to dry air and static electricity. It is not like I can light up a flourecent tube, but just part off 1948 wiring standards...heck, I am lucky the power even works some days...


----------



## Jim85IROC

Robert Padgett said:


> If unplugging a headphone jack is going to stress you out, might I suggest listening to speakers. At least you would not have to lift those heavy objects and put them over your ears
> 
> Now, seriously, I have the Vali 2 here beside of me, and I have heard a click and a pop as the amplifier engages, but the Heavenly sound in my Sennheisers is so luxurious with the Telefunken E88CC-TK tube, a little click or a pop, even a sizzle when my static electric charges disapate by touching the volume control are so very minor,  by comparison to the Music I get to hear, I am wondering if my Vali 2 is special?


I never said unplugging the headphones would stress me out.  Please don't put words into my mouth.  I don't like to plug and unplug something unnecessarily because it adds wear to the parts.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Jim85IROC said:


> I never said unplugging the headphones would stress me out.  Please don't put words into my mouth.  I don't like to plug and unplug something unnecessarily because it adds wear to the parts.



Seriously? Do you know what it means? Yes, that plugging in and unplugging has been noted as the leading cause of cable failure throughout the Music industry. 

Road Manager for a number of Rock and/or Polish Dance Groups has noted that failure-rates in the industry are those damn (His words, not mine) plugs "They are always failing...sometimes we can only plug and unplug them once each day..."  Some entrepreneurs should rescue live Music and the whole darn Industry and invent a better headphone plug. 

It was placed in this context as if the passage just prior might not be taken seriously. You see that is how written English works, like hyperbole. "might I suggest listening to speakers. At least you would not have to lift those heavy objects and put them over your ears "

If that premise sounds reasonable, as is to be taken seriously, then YES, I put words in your mouth, and I might add, in a rather eloquent way of doing so...And the emoji---universal sign that I am just joking with you. Are we clear now?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Jim85IROC said:


> I just picked up a Vali 2 and a Modi to use at work.  For the weekend I have them set up at home, and I just noticed that after I turned on the Vali, after 15 seconds or so, there's a lot pop in the headphones.  I know that there's a delay in output while the tube warms up, but is the loud pop normal?





Keno18 said:


> Yes it is. It depends on the sensitivity of the headphones and the tube used.





RickB said:


> Yes, it's normal. So far, my headphones have been undamaged by the pop.



It's one of the quirks of this unit. I've been told it's a relay on the board. *It's harmless*. I get _*some relief *_from it by turning the volume 'pot all the way down. My HD650 clones make an unpleasant pop (I prefer my Magni3 headphone-amp,... it makes a gentle click).  *Re: Hot boxes! *Wait until you start feeling all the heat given off by these little aluminium boxes! Yeesh. Again, Schiit-Support assured me this is well within safe limits. I think you'll enjoy the Vali. Welcome, eh.


----------



## Jim85IROC

ScubaMan2017 said:


> It's one of the quirks of this unit. I've been told it's a relay on the board. *It's harmless*. I get _*some relief *_from it by turning the volume 'pot all the way down. My HD650 clones make an unpleasant pop (I prefer my Magni3 headphone-amp,... it makes a gentle click).  *Re: Hot boxes! *Wait until you start feeling all the heat given off by these little aluminium boxes! Yeesh. Again, Schiit-Support assured me this is well within safe limits. I think you'll enjoy the Vali. Welcome, eh.


I noticed how warm it gets.  Surprisingly, the tube is the coolest part of the unit.


----------



## Mr Trev

Heck, the Vali2 is nothing. You should see the heat my P1 with its class A mosfets cranks out


----------



## RickB

Received from Amazon today a Genelex Gold Lion that I ordered. Fair warning: the tube was shipped in its tube box, inside a small plastic bag, which was placed in a padded yellow envelope. Luckily, the tube was OK and the tube box was unmarked. This is in contrast to Tube Depot, which always ships tubes in sturdy boxes. 

As for the tube's sound quality, it's not too different from the EH 6CG7 I was using, same warm signature. The Gold Lion is noticeably smoother, however.


----------



## Keno18

RickB said:


> Received from Amazon today a Genelex Gold Lion that I ordered. Fair warning: the tube was shipped in its tube box, inside a small plastic bag, which was placed in a padded yellow envelope. Luckily, the tube was OK and the tube box was unmarked. This is in contrast to Tube Depot, which always ships tubes in sturdy boxes.
> 
> As for the tube's sound quality, it's not too different from the EH 6CG7 I was using, same warm signature. The Gold Lion is noticeably smoother, however.


How do you find the low-end bass? I found it to be lacking.


----------



## RickB

Keno18 said:


> How do you find the low-end bass? I found it to be lacking.



Now that you mention it, it is a little lighter than the 6CG7. I've only been using the tube for a couple of hours, so that might change.


----------



## FLTWS

Sub'd


----------



## TinearedOne (Dec 25, 2018)

I just rolled in an Electro-Harmonix 6922.  The noise I experienced on high output with the stock tube has vanished and the highs are definitely sweeter.  First roll.  Lived with a rough stock tube for too long.  I don't see needing to go any further at this point.  What a nice sweet sounding tube.  The tube was a gift, but if vivatubes.com sorts all their tubes this well, I'll probably go looking for them next time I want to experiment.  Of course, this is all after about 10 minutes of listening and the tube could still prove to be short lived, but it's a very nice honeymoon right now.


----------



## Old Deaf Donkey (Dec 25, 2018)

TinearedOne said:


> I just rolled in an Electro-Harmonix 6922.  The noise I experienced on high output with the stock tube has vanished and the highs are definitely sweeter.  First roll.  Lived with a rough stock tube for too long.  I don't see needing to go any further at this point.  What a nice sweet sounding tube.  The tube was a gift, but if vivatubes.com sorts all their tubes this well, I'll probably go looking for them next time I want to experiment.  Of course, this is all after about 10 minutes of listening and the tube could still prove to be short lived, but it's a very nice honeymoon right now.


What Headphones are you using? I am on AKG K702, and still struggling with EH 6922 - after the first couple of days it still sounds too forward, bright, and shrill; too harsh mids and tizzy trebble in many recordings, compared to the stock tube which became sweet and engaging after a while. Could not listen to anything - was coming back to the stock after15 min.  Only after several days and forced attempts it maybe starts slowly mellowing a little bit, but still prefer the stock tube. Never any noise.


----------



## TinearedOne (Dec 25, 2018)

Old Deaf Donkey said:


> What Headphones are you using? I am on AKG K702, and still struggling with EH 6922 - after the first couple of days it still sounds too forward, bright, and shrill; too harsh mids and tizzy trebble in many recordings, compared to the stock tube which became sweet and engaging after a while. Could not listen to anything - was coming back to the stock after15 min.  Only after several days and forced attempts it maybe starts slowly mellowing a little bit, but still prefer the stock tube. Never any noise.



...the much mellower AKG K612.


----------



## timb5881

The EH is not a bad tube.  Same with the JJ 6922.   That said some NOS tubes that are better for mot much more.   Try getting a 12AU7 adapter, ther are many really good 12AU7 tubes around for under $20.  RCA, Sylvania,  GE, Tung-Sol etc and European tubes as well.   Try some, you will really enjoy trying different tubes to find your perfect match.


----------



## Robert Padgett (Dec 25, 2018)

TinearedOne said:


> I just rolled in an Electro-Harmonix 6922.  The noise I experienced on high output with the stock tube has vanished and the highs are definitely sweeter.  First roll.  Lived with a rough stock tube for too long.  I don't see needing to go any further at this point.  What a nice sweet sounding tube.  The tube was a gift, but if vivatubes.com sorts all their tubes this well, I'll probably go looking for them next time I want to experiment.  Of course, this is all after about 10 minutes of listening and the tube could still prove to be short lived, but it's a very nice honeymoon right now.



I am testing a JJ 6SN7 ($15.95 Tubedepot) with an adapter on my Vali 2, but I have found it was harsh compared to a new "Telefunken" E88CC-TK, which I just found out are made by JJ, probably in the same factory. Fortunately, the adapter and 6SN7 will work nicely with the Valhalla 2 which is on my wishlist...


----------



## Old Deaf Donkey

timb5881 said:


> The EH is not a bad tube.  Same with the JJ 6922.   That said some NOS tubes that are better for mot much more.   Try getting a 12AU7 adapter, ther are many really good 12AU7 tubes around for under $20.  RCA, Sylvania,  GE, Tung-Sol etc and European tubes as well.   Try some, you will really enjoy trying different tubes to find your perfect match.


Thank you for your encouragement. I have already ordered adapters for 6C8G and 5670 and NOS Reflektor 6N23P. Will also do for 6SN7. A lot of fun awaiting...


----------



## tacit

My Schiit Vali after 10 months of great sounding developed hum in 250 Ohm phones. It is still on warranty but live far from US and sending one to America (where it was bought) would be too expensive. Any recommendations?


----------



## RickB

tacit said:


> My Schiit Vali after 10 months of great sounding developed hum in 250 Ohm phones. It is still on warranty but live far from US and sending one to America (where it was bought) would be too expensive. Any recommendations?



Perhaps try a different tube.


----------



## TinearedOne

tacit said:


> My Schiit Vali after 10 months of great sounding developed hum in 250 Ohm phones. It is still on warranty but live far from US and sending one to America (where it was bought) would be too expensive. Any recommendations?





RickB said:


> Perhaps try a different tube.



+1 on buying a different tube.  My stock tube developed a hum within 90 days, especially on high output, and a new tube has recently solved that problem.  It is likely not the solid state hardware.  It's the cheap tubes they include stock.  Get something that has been more carefully matched and higher quality, and it is likely your problem will go away for less than $20.


----------



## tacit

Tank you very much! Which tube would you recommend?


----------



## tacit

Tank you very much! Which tube would you recommend?


----------



## RickB

tacit said:


> Tank you very much! Which tube would you recommend?



EH 6CG7, or if you can spend a little more, Genalex Gold Lion E88CC/6922.


----------



## RickB (Dec 28, 2018)

tacit said:


> Tank you very much! Which tube would you recommend?



Duplicate.


----------



## tacit

RickB said:


> EH 6CG7, or if you can spend a little more, Genalex Gold Lion E88CC/6922.


Thank you!


----------



## tacit

RickB said:


> Duplicate.


This site gave an error, therefore duplicate


----------



## tacit

RickB said:


> Duplicate.


This site gave an error, therefore dupicate


----------



## Joseph021012

Hey guys, I've been having a balance problem with my Vali 2. The left channel is significantly louder than the right channel in high gain and slightly louder in low gain. I've tried multiple tubes and I'm not sure what happened. For the cabling, I am using the interpose rigid cross-connect. Has anyone had this problem before? Thank you.


----------



## TinearedOne

Joseph021012 said:


> Hey guys, I've been having a balance problem with my Vali 2. The left channel is significantly louder than the right channel in high gain and slightly louder in low gain. I've tried multiple tubes and I'm not sure what happened. For the cabling, I am using the interpose rigid cross-connect. Has anyone had this problem before? Thank you.



That sounds like something to ask Schiit about.  Aren't they in California?


----------



## Mike-WI

TinearedOne said:


> That sounds like something to ask Schiit about.  Aren't they in California?


http://www.schiit.com/places

*THE SCHIITR*
*SCHIIT'S FIRST RETAIL STORE*
*22508 Market Street
Newhall, CA 91321
(661) 388-2257*

Directions-->
Open Thursday thru Sunday, 10AM-6PM.**
*


----------



## ScubaMan2017

tacit said:


> Thank you!



@RickB I know it's a* slippery *question, _can you describe the characteristics of those 2 tubes?_ If I were to pick one of them up (here in Ontario, Canada... using CDN dollars), I'd be using them while I listen to orchestras, solo-guitar, and/or classical piano.

Maybe with some _Disturbed_ salted in for that ready-for-metal-disco-vibe....


----------



## RickB

ScubaMan2017 said:


> @RickB I know it's a* slippery *question, _can you describe the characteristics of those 2 tubes?_ If I were to pick one of them up (here in Ontario, Canada... using CDN dollars), I'd be using them while I listen to orchestras, solo-guitar, and/or classical piano.
> 
> Maybe with some _Disturbed_ salted in for that ready-for-metal-disco-vibe....



I'm not very good at describing sound, but I would characterize the tubes as this: they both have a warm, smooth sound. The 6CG7 is a little brighter, a little more V shaped, while the Gold Lion is more mid-centric. Also, the GL is smoother than the 6CG7. Not by a lot, but by a noticeable amount. 

As for what to pick for classical music, I don't know as that is not a genre I am very familiar with. But, hopefully my descriptions can be a guide.


----------



## boxster233

Does anyone have any good cable recommendations for between the Vali 2 and the Modi? I dug out some old RCA cables that are probably 20 years old. Currently I'm going from Dell Inspiron Laptop via Schiit supplied USB cable to Modi and then old red-white RCA cables to Vali 2. Is there a more optimal cable setup?


----------



## Joseph021012

boxster233 said:


> Does anyone have any good cable recommendations for between the Vali 2 and the Modi? I dug out some old RCA cables that are probably 20 years old. Currently I'm going from Dell Inspiron Laptop via Schiit supplied USB cable to Modi and then old red-white RCA cables to Vali 2. Is there a more optimal cable setup?


Several good rca for schiit stacks I've heard of includes the schiit pyst cables, monoprice cables, and the intropose rigid cross connect which I use personally.
The monoprice are a good bargain but I like the intropose because it looks nice. GL


----------



## Slashn77

boxster233 said:


> Does anyone have any good cable recommendations for between the Vali 2 and the Modi? I dug out some old RCA cables that are probably 20 years old. Currently I'm going from Dell Inspiron Laptop via Schiit supplied USB cable to Modi and then old red-white RCA cables to Vali 2. Is there a more optimal cable setup?


Any RCA cable will be just fine. Even if youre a believer in expensive cables which i am not a system at this price will be perfectly fine with an amazon basics cable or monoprice cable. If you want to spend about $20 schiit sells PYST cables and those are what i use for the convience and cleaner look while stacking.


----------



## NicholasS

boxster233 said:


> Does anyone have any good cable recommendations for between the Vali 2 and the Modi? I dug out some old RCA cables that are probably 20 years old. Currently I'm going from Dell Inspiron Laptop via Schiit supplied USB cable to Modi and then old red-white RCA cables to Vali 2. Is there a more optimal cable setup?



Have you seen this? https://introprose.myshopify.com/products/rca-crossconnect-for-schiit-stack
I haven't tried it myself yet, but seems a nice solution.


----------



## Jacobh

boxster233 said:


> Does anyone have any good cable recommendations for between the Vali 2 and the Modi? I dug out some old RCA cables that are probably 20 years old. Currently I'm going from Dell Inspiron Laptop via Schiit supplied USB cable to Modi and then old red-white RCA cables to Vali 2. Is there a more optimal cable setup?



Unless you have a specific problem like the cables being too long to manage or they have a flakey connection, I would just use what you got. Spend the money on music or use it towards another pair of headphones.


----------



## RickB

boxster233 said:


> Does anyone have any good cable recommendations for between the Vali 2 and the Modi? I dug out some old RCA cables that are probably 20 years old. Currently I'm going from Dell Inspiron Laptop via Schiit supplied USB cable to Modi and then old red-white RCA cables to Vali 2. Is there a more optimal cable setup?



I've been using the Schiit PYST RCA cables for several years and have no complaints.


----------



## Keno18

boxster233 said:


> Does anyone have any good cable recommendations for between the Vali 2 and the Modi? I dug out some old RCA cables that are probably 20 years old. Currently I'm going from Dell Inspiron Laptop via Schiit supplied USB cable to Modi and then old red-white RCA cables to Vali 2. Is there a more optimal cable setup?


If you carefully read schiit.com's own description of their PYST cables you'll see at the very end that if you don't want to spend  $20 on PYST they recommend  using Monoprice cables which is what I did.


----------



## tafens

boxster233 said:


> Does anyone have any good cable recommendations for between the Vali 2 and the Modi? I dug out some old RCA cables that are probably 20 years old. Currently I'm going from Dell Inspiron Laptop via Schiit supplied USB cable to Modi and then old red-white RCA cables to Vali 2. Is there a more optimal cable setup?



If you are stacking them (Vali on top of Modi) then the Schiit RCA cables are great because they are short and of good quality.


----------



## Mike-WI

boxster233 said:


> Does anyone have any good cable recommendations for between the Vali 2 and the Modi? I dug out some old RCA cables that are probably 20 years old. Currently I'm going from Dell Inspiron Laptop via Schiit supplied USB cable to Modi and then old red-white RCA cables to Vali 2. Is there a more optimal cable setup?


http://www.schiit.com/products/pyst-cables

EDIT: 
Looks like others answered the same


----------



## exdmd

Mike-WI said:


> http://www.schiit.com/products/pyst-cables
> 
> EDIT:
> Looks like others answered the same



Don't forget Blue Jeans Cables top quality great value. They also ship fast.


----------



## Mike-WI

exdmd said:


> Don't forget Blue Jeans Cables top quality great value. They also ship fast.


I just ordered the PYST 6 inch cables for my sons setup.
$7.88 in shipping, so a little pricey if not combining with another order.

I have also used these from Amazon
0.5 Foot – Directional Quad High-Definition Audio Interconnect Cable Pair CUSTOM MADE By WORLDS BEST CABLES – using Mogami 2534 wire and Neutrik-Rean NYS Gold RCA Connectors
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...4df-15aac5223b10&pf_rd_r=NTAJ72K4ZTT8FZJX8C9Q

It seems hard to find affordable 0.5 foot cables.


----------



## Jacobh (Jan 3, 2019)

Mike-WI said:


> I just ordered the PYST 6 inch cables for my sons setup.
> It seems hard to find affordable 0.5 foot cables.



I've ordered Kenable cables before and while they are slow to ship to the US, the quality is fine.  Just pull off the third cable: https://www.amazon.com/Kenable-Component-Video-Phonos-Phono/dp/B008LBF6SQ

EDIT: Actually, those aren't shielded so probably not a good option.  They make a 10 inch shielded RCA cable though.


----------



## TinearedOne

I have Pyst connecting SYS, Vali 2, and Modi Uber.  No complaints.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

boxster233 said:


> Does anyone have any good cable recommendations for between the Vali 2 and the Modi? I dug out some old RCA cables that are probably 20 years old. Currently I'm going from Dell Inspiron Laptop via Schiit supplied USB cable to Modi and then old red-white RCA cables to Vali 2. Is there a more optimal cable setup?


Welcome to the forum @boxster233 !
I'm getting excellent results with a short (~1ft?) RCA cable from Monoprice... or Amazon Basics. The short cables can be GENTLY bent to make it all fit. I even used some Y-splitters to feed my Magni & Vali off the same Loki.  As long as the connections are firmly pushed into the RCA sockets, it has crystal clear output.





.........Here are some images........
 
........I took as I assembled my listening nook... to give you some ideas, eh.....
The Schiit Modi manual I have assures me that the signal between its DAC and the amplifier is strong enough to give optimal results.


----------



## boxster233

Thanks everyone for great feedback on cables. I’m going to try 6922 tube and see if that reduces noise, then try to reevaluate if I went to invest in cables.


----------



## Mike-WI

Mike-WI said:


> I just ordered the PYST 6 inch cables for my sons setup.
> $7.88 in shipping, so a little pricey if not combining with another order.
> 
> I have also used these from Amazon
> ...


Installed Pyst cables in my son's Modi -> Vali setup. They look and work great.

The Monoprice seem to stiff.
I used some no-name super cheap (but not stiff) cables for my other sons Modi -> Magni setup.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

boxster233 said:


> Thanks everyone for great feedback on cables. I’m going to try 6922 tube and see if that reduces noise, then try to reevaluate if I went to invest in cables.



Post your thoughts about the tube, eh. My Vali sometimes gets a VERY quiet, whooshing background noise. If I use the stock tube ~4h/day... it'll last me ~3 years. Psshhh. Good enough. 



Mike-WI said:


> Installed Pyst cables in my son's Modi -> Vali setup. They look and work great.
> 
> The Monoprice seem to stiff.
> I used some no-name super cheap (but not stiff) cables for my other sons Modi -> Magni setup.



I like the spartan look. The Amazon Basics (Monoprice) are stiff as all hell. Gentle flexing & rubber-bands made them behave! The Y-splitter's metal was very soft, so they need to be pinched to get a firm connection. Amazon dot ca sell them in packs of 3.... Huh?! Weird.  Re: Pyst cables. They look nice -- and tasty....   Since I have house-panthers, we have to cover all the cables with cable-tubes & electrician's tape.


----------



## marca56

After researching and reading and watching a lot of reviews, I visited the Schiiter this morning and had the chance to try out the Modi 3, Modi 3 Multibit, Magni 3 and Vali 2 stacks and compare them to the Fulla 2 using my new Grado GW100s in wired mode. I first tried using the SurfacePads with the beta streaming Euro service but it took awhile to navigate and get some songs on both stacks that were the same so I could compare and contrast each stack. I wound up using The Beatles Norwegian Wood, Thelonious Monk Straight No Chaser from the streaming service, and finally, from my own MacBook Pro, about five of my recordings of my son’s Jazz drum kit conservatory audition videos recorded in stereo HD. He’s a Jazz Drumkit performance major at CalPoly SLO, so I know these really well and the audio is uncompressed MOV 16bit/192.

The first stack I setup was the Modi 3 and Magni 3 and I was super impressed. It was really a lot better than the Fulla 2. Full and very bright and airy with the Grado GW100s. But then I setup the Modi 3 Multibit and Vali 2 and was shocked at how different it really sounded. Even with the same headphones, same recordings, and same volume levels, it was like I was listening to color TV instead of black and white. Especially on the Jazz audition videos, I could not believe what I was hearing. I could actually hear the slide and finger work on the standup bass, the actual percussion of the fingers on the piano, and the distinctly different techniques of my son’s sticks in the different pieces. It was like I was live in our garage, not listening to a video recording. These are well recorded stereo recordings in 16/192 and uncompressed. I could place the piano, bass and drums from left to right in the stereo field. I never could hear that before in these recordings, but now they just popped out. It’s a very different experience.

After about 35 minutes of listening back and forth, I was sold. I purchased the Modi 3 Multibit and Vali 2 combo with some patch cables.

I do have some comments on the Schiiter and demo room. First, the layout is really nice and I love that they had each station setup in the most appropriate way. However, the SurfacePads are not the most user friendly or stable devices. Each time they are started up, you have to fiddle with the audio source, at least in the beta steaming software for the Euro service they are working on.

Second, the idea of using the streaming service with HD versions of songs is really great! But there were problems playing back some of the songs and the switching from one song to another was pretty slow. The service or the app crashed multiple times. I had much better results using my own MacBook Pro connected to the demo station equipment. And also I was more familiar with what I thought to be the quality and source material. That helped a LOT during the back and forth between the two stacks.

Third, the coffee was pretty good. I have a Jura E9, which is very similar to the machine in the Schiiter. I usually have a medium roast but the dark roast they provided is tasty too! I took mine for the road.

Fourth, the folks were really helpful and friendly and they did their best to answer a lot of questions and did not try to sell me anything. That is a great user experience when trying to figure out if and what to buy.

So far, a great product and well worth the effort to learn about the systems. Next up, learning about tubes-- there are several good threads here so I will be busy for awhile, and listening to the music.


----------



## Keno18

marca56 said:


> After researching and reading and watching a lot of reviews, I visited the Schiiter this morning and had the chance to try out the Modi 3, Modi 3 Multibit, Magni 3 and Vali 2 stacks and compare them to the Fulla 2 using my new Grado GW100s in wired mode. I first tried using the SurfacePads with the beta streaming Euro service but it took awhile to navigate and get some songs on both stacks that were the same so I could compare and contrast each stack. I wound up using The Beatles Norwegian Wood, Thelonious Monk Straight No Chaser from the streaming service, and finally, from my own MacBook Pro, about five of my recordings of my son’s Jazz drum kit conservatory audition videos recorded in stereo HD. He’s a Jazz Drumkit performance major at CalPoly SLO, so I know these really well and the audio is uncompressed MOV 16bit/192.
> 
> The first stack I setup was the Modi 3 and Magni 3 and I was super impressed. It was really a lot better than the Fulla 2. Full and very bright and airy with the Grado GW100s. But then I setup the Modi 3 Multibit and Vali 2 and was shocked at how different it really sounded. Even with the same headphones, same recordings, and same volume levels, it was like I was listening to color TV instead of black and white. Especially on the Jazz audition videos, I could not believe what I was hearing. I could actually hear the slide and finger work on the standup bass, the actual percussion of the fingers on the piano, and the distinctly different techniques of my son’s sticks in the different pieces. It was like I was live in our garage, not listening to a video recording. These are well recorded stereo recordings in 16/192 and uncompressed. I could place the piano, bass and drums from left to right in the stereo field. I never could hear that before in these recordings, but now they just popped out. It’s a very different experience.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the rabbit hole.


----------



## Robert Padgett (Jan 11, 2019)

TinearedOne said:


> +1 on buying a different tube.  My stock tube developed a hum within 90 days, especially on high output, and a new tube has recently solved that problem.  It is likely not the solid state hardware.  It's the cheap tubes they include stock.  Get something that has been more carefully matched and higher quality, and it is likely your problem will go away for less than $20.


I too found that the stock tube (Unlabeled but similar in appearance to 6N1P Sovtek NOS) sounded good, but it was picking up the wireless remote telemetry from my Heart Pacemaker. The alternative tubes I own, a $48 new production Telefunken, a new 6SN7 from JJ (the same factory in Slovakia) and a NOS Sovtek 6H8C did not have the 70bpm back-beat built-in. I have a vintage Tung-sol "Mouse-ears" on the way (6SN7). I suggest you invest in both a "socket-saver" and a 6SN7 adapter to fit the e88cc socket in the Vali 2. I have found 6SN7 to have a more expansive soundstage, more detail, and better overall SQ than the smaller sized tubes. Welcome to Tube-rolling. My personal preference is using Headphones to get the full potential of each tube I am listening to.


----------



## Keno18

L


Robert Padgett said:


> I too found that the stock tube (Unlabeled but similar in appearance to 6N1P Sovtek NOS) sounded good, but it was picking up the wireless remote telemetry from my Heart Pacemaker. The alternative tubes I own, a $48 new production Telefunken, a new 6SN7 from JJ (the same factory in Slovakia) and a NOS Sovtek 6H8C did not have the 70bpm back-beat built-in. I have a vintage Tung-sol "Mouse-ears" on the way (6SN7). I suggest you invest in both a "socket-saver" and a 6SN7 adapter to fit the e88cc socket in the Vali 2. I have found 6SN7 to have a more expansive soundstage, more detail, and better overall SQ than the smaller sized tubes. Welcome to Tube-rolling. My personal preference is using Headphones to get the full potential of each tube I am listening to.


I'll be interested in your take on the sound of the "mouse ears".


----------



## Robert Padgett

boxster233 said:


> Does anyone have any good cable recommendations for between the Vali 2 and the Modi? I dug out some old RCA cables that are probably 20 years old. Currently I'm going from Dell Inspiron Laptop via Schiit supplied USB cable to Modi and then old red-white RCA cables to Vali 2. Is there a more optimal cable setup?


A cable, if properly terminated, will conduct a signal from terminal to terminal. A cable cannot improve upon the sound quality of the signal, the exception being interference from adjacent electronics, which will impart noise. So if you have a cable that is 20 years old, and connectors are free of corrosion, and don't have a broken wire in the connectors, they should perform properly. (No, I am not trying to say that some cables are better than others, or the opposite--that all cables are the same)  The PYST are exceptional because they are designed by Schiit for the very purpose intended. The short length exposes less wire to RF interference, or the "antenna effect". In this application the wires might seem "stiff" and cause thestack to not sit properly atop each other.  This may be a better solution.  introprose.myshopify.com/products/rca-crossconnect-for-schiit-stack


----------



## ScubaMan2017

marca56 said:


> After researching and reading and watching a lot of reviews, I visited the Schiiter this morning and had the chance to try out the Modi 3, Modi 3 Multibit, Magni 3 and Vali 2 stacks and compare them to the Fulla 2 using my new Grado GW100s in wired mode. I first tried using the SurfacePads with the beta streaming Euro service but it took awhile to navigate and get some songs on both stacks that were the same so I could compare and contrast each stack. I wound up using The Beatles Norwegian Wood, Thelonious Monk Straight No Chaser from the streaming service, and finally, from my own MacBook Pro, about five of my recordings of my son’s Jazz drum kit conservatory audition videos recorded in stereo HD. He’s a Jazz Drumkit performance major at CalPoly SLO, so I know these really well and the audio is uncompressed MOV 16bit/192.
> 
> The first stack I setup was the Modi 3 and Magni 3 and I was super impressed. It was really a lot better than the Fulla 2. Full and very bright and airy with the Grado GW100s. But then I setup the Modi 3 Multibit and Vali 2 and was shocked at how different it really sounded. Even with the same headphones, same recordings, and same volume levels, it was like I was listening to color TV instead of black and white. Especially on the Jazz audition videos, I could not believe what I was hearing. I could actually hear the slide and finger work on the standup bass, the actual percussion of the fingers on the piano, and the distinctly different techniques of my son’s sticks in the different pieces. It was like I was live in our garage, not listening to a video recording. These are well recorded stereo recordings in 16/192 and uncompressed. I could place the piano, bass and drums from left to right in the stereo field. I never could hear that before in these recordings, but now they just popped out. It’s a very different experience.
> 
> ...


Welcome to Head-Fi. You are now a newly minted, fellow, Schiit-Head! I envy you - I can’t visit the Schiitr (yet). Perhaps for my 50th birthday celebration...


----------



## Robert Padgett (Jan 14, 2019)

Keno18 said:


> L
> 
> I'll be interested in your take on the sound of the "mouse ears".


You were my motivation to go with the socket-saver/6SN7 converter combination, and this Tung-Sol is really my first "vintage" tube. I am so glad I purchased it, and it really wasn't that expensive ($8)  The sound is Delicious, very musical and I was listening to Norah Jones and not a trace of the sibilance I have to hear on the Sovtek 6SN7 tube. It is already my favorite tube and has replaced the new production JJ-brand 6SN7 which was starting to settle down. The difference between a 6922-class tube and the 6SN7 is a 
 remarkable improvement in the depth of the Soundstage. It just seems broader and more detailed. I admit it looks odd, such a big tube on such a small package, but looks don't affect SQ


----------



## Keno18

Robert Padgett said:


> You were my motivation to go with the socket-saver/6SN7 converter combination, and this Tung-Sol is really my first "vintage" tube. I am so glad I purchased it, and it really wasn't that expensive ($8)  The sound is Delicious, very musical and I was listening to Norah Jones and not a trace of the sibilance I have to hear on the Sovtek 6SN7 tube. It is already my favorite tube and has replaced the new production JJ-brand 6SN7 which was starting to settle down. The difference between a 6299-class tube and the 6SN7 is a  remarkable improvement in the depth of the Soundstage. It just seems broader and more detailed. I admit it looks odd, such a big tube on such a small package, but looks don't affect SQ


I'm glad you're enjoying the tube. There's always the element of self-doubt when making a recommendation. Yes, it may be funny looking but I see it as distinctive. The more I read, the more I see that the 6sn7 in general is one of the best tubes for audio.


----------



## Robert Padgett (Jan 14, 2019)

The last one I bought took 16-days to come from Hong Kong not bad if you want to experience a 6SN7 tube on the Vali.

www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-CNC-Copper-body-/191186405190

 made from copper and well worth the $6 more, IMHO.

I also wish to apologize to this vendor for a comment I had made about his fine product.
1. I was wrong, I was comparing apples to oranges.
2. I said that his adapter took 3 weeks, it was 16-days, which is really pretty fast...a parcel from Russia takes over a month.
3. The cheaper version is functional, but this piece is metal vs. plastic.

Many of his customers come from these forums, so my comments shed a bad light upon him.
I am sorry.


----------



## AudioManNewb

I was thinking of purchasing the Schiit Vali 2 for my ESS 422H headphones. Would this not suffer from these issues listed below? 

I have previously purchased the Little Dot MKII but it had a hum that would get louder the higher you raised the volume and if I did not use a cheater plug would pickup mouse/beeping/opening of windows and GPU noise from the computer no matter of what wall outlet used in the room. My DAC is the JDS Labs OL DAC.


----------



## Robert Padgett

AudioManNewb said:


> I was thinking of purchasing the Schiit Vali 2 for my ESS 422H headphones. Would this not suffer from these issues listed below?
> 
> I have previously purchased the Little Dot MKII but it had a hum that would get louder the higher you raised the volume and if I did not use a cheater plug would pickup mouse/beeping/opening of windows and GPU noise from the computer no matter of what wall outlet used in the room. My DAC is the JDS Labs OL DAC.




Not familiar Little Dot, and I have not experienced problems with Vali 2. In the one case when I had any noise--it was with the 6N1P stock tube picking up my heart pacemaker telemetry. A different tube is a black background, so problem solved. 

Welcome to tube rolling on the Vali 2.


----------



## Jacobh

AudioManNewb said:


> I was thinking of purchasing the Schiit Vali 2 for my ESS 422H headphones. Would this not suffer from these issues listed below?
> 
> I have previously purchased the Little Dot MKII but it had a hum that would get louder the higher you raised the volume and if I did not use a cheater plug would pickup mouse/beeping/opening of windows and GPU noise from the computer no matter of what wall outlet used in the room. My DAC is the JDS Labs OL DAC.



That sounds like a ground loop issue.  It's possible it's caused by the Little Dot and swapping out with a different amp would resolve it, but you should probably try to address it in your current setup.


----------



## RickB

Robert Padgett said:


> Not familiar Little Dot, and I have not experienced problems with Vali 2. In the one case when I had any noise--it was with the 6N1P stock tube picking up my heart pacemaker telemetry. A different tube is a black background, so problem solved.
> 
> Welcome to tube rolling on the Vali 2.



As far as I know, the stock tube is 6BZ7/6BQ7A on the Vali 2. The 6N1P is a Russian tube that is stock on the Valhalla 2.


----------



## Robert Padgett (Jan 14, 2019)

RickB said:


> As far as I know, the stock tube is 6BZ7/6BQ7A on the Vali 2. The 6N1P is a Russian tube that is stock on the Valhalla 2.


No dispute that is what the page says, The stock tube is very similar to a Sovtek 6N1P in my case and although that is what is supplied the pins accept a 6922, e88cc, size tubes and other 9-pin variants. The essential difference is even shown in the photograph on the Vali 2 page--see the four red glows? well, that is unique to the Russian version. The 6N1P has a higher plate voltage which doesn't affect its performance except for long life. Mine was also microphonic--another trait of many Russian e88cc, 6922 variants "Vali 2 is supplied with a single NOS 6BZ7 tube, which can be swapped for the same tubes we use in Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2—feel free to use virtually any ECC88, 6922, 6DJ8, 2492,"--Vali 2
" 6N1P dual triode input, 6N6P dual triode output, 1 each per channel. 6N1Ps rollable to 6DJ8, E88CC, 6922, 6BZ7, and similar types."  When in doubt, remember Schiit chose the stock tubes based on supply and markets, so I am glad it was a good sounding tube, not as good as the New Production Telefunken which was not microphonic. The Russian tube pictured is a $9 but the Schiit tube is not marked, so in quantity, it may be a $4 tube...


----------



## Grado Diesel (Jan 15, 2019)

I’ve been rockin the Genelex Gold Lion E88CC for two years now and am thinking a hitting the Tube Depor and getting an EHX 6CG7. Anyone know if getting the gold pins will make a difference? And how about the low noise and microphonics $4 option too? - Does that make a difference in this application?


----------



## Keno18 (Jan 15, 2019)

Grado Diesel said:


> I’ve been rockin the Genelex Gold Lion E88CC for two years now and am thinking a hitting the Tube Store and getting an EHX 6CG7. Anyone know if getting the gold pins will make a difference? And how about the no microphonics $6 option too? - Does that make a difference in this application?


Personally I don't think it makes a difference. I've used both the 6cg7 without the gold and the genalex. I never felt the gold made a difference. As for microphonics, I haven't run into a tube yet that had it, especially a new production one.

Edit: If it bothers, do what I did get a gold plated socket saver from ebay. This way you always have a gold contact on both the tube and the socket in the Vali 2.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Ladies and Gentlemen, I have arrived at Audio Nirvana. A Tung-Sol 6SN7GT 'Mouse-ears' atop the Vali 2 HP amp with adapter and socket-saver.
Having never heard a tube HP amp before the Vali 2, this is quite an upgrade from the stock 6N1P/6922 tube with the Vali 2. 
6SN7 is a very good match with Jason's electronics. I recommend it highly


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Robert Padgett said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, I have arrived at Audio Nirvana. A Tung-Sol 6SN7GT 'Mouse-ears' atop the Vali 2 HP amp with adapter and socket-saver.
> Having never heard a tube HP amp before the Vali 2, this is quite an upgrade from the stock 6N1P/6922 tube with the Vali 2.
> 6SN7 is a very good match with Jason's electronics. I recommend it highly



*My god, you did it*. No magic smoke from the Vali? I take it the socket-saver/adapter/tube didn't tear off the red mother board? And it's not so top heavy that the Vali topples over?

Does my stock tube work? Sure. However, I'm intrigued by having an oversized glass tube sticking out of my Vali. So, @Robert Padgett ... the components are the following (right?): Vali >>> socket saver (so the tube clears the aluminium chassis) >>> adapter >>> Tung-Sol 6SN7GT (_by the way, they're called "mouse ears" because of the 2 metals stacks inside the tube, right?_).
.
*Question: *would you consider a bracket-like retainer to support the oversized tube perched on top of the Vali? I have house-panthers (cats)... a wobbling tube... marked by a cat... could shatter on the ground.
For my first tube upgrade, I'll stick with a vendor like Tube Depot (and drop a line to Schiit customer support to ensure I don't break my amp).

That's a fantastic picture, sir. Thanks for sharing, eh.


----------



## Keno18

ScubaMan2017 said:


> *My god, you did it*. No magic smoke from the Vali? I take it the socket-saver/adapter/tube didn't tear off the red mother board? And it's not so top heavy that the Vali topples over?
> 
> Does my stock tube work? Sure. However, I'm intrigued by having an oversized glass tube sticking out of my Vali. So, @Robert Padgett ... the components are the following (right?): Vali >>> socket saver (so the tube clears the aluminium chassis) >>> adapter >>> Tung-Sol 6SN7GT (_by the way, they're called "mouse ears" because of the 2 metals stacks inside the tube, right?_).
> .
> ...


@ScubaMan2017: If I can jump in, the 6sn7gt, tubedepot.com adapter and socket saver is a tight fit. No wobbling. It's pretty secure.


----------



## Robert Padgett (Jan 19, 2019)

ScubaMan2017 said:


> *My god, you did it*. No magic smoke from the Vali? I take it the socket-saver/adapter/tube didn't tear off the red motherboard? And it's not so top heavy that the Vali topples over?
> 
> Does my stock tube work? Sure. However, I'm intrigued by having an oversized glass tube sticking out of my Vali. So, @Robert Padgett ... the components are the following (right?): Vali >>> socket saver (so the tube clears the aluminum chassis) >>> adapter >>> Tung-Sol 6SN7GT (_by the way, they're called "mouse ears" because of the 2 metals stacks inside the tube, right?_).
> .
> ...




Everything is working just fine. The Mouse-ears refer to two round mica plates that look like mickey mouse. My fingertips have no sensation, and I pulled ...the tube with my fingers...not a good idea, as the glass envelope exploded upon contact with the floor. (I got that tube for $5.63, so I miss it but I am not heart-broken) Another member suggested wrapping the tube in a latex glove for better grip but had found a pair of grip gloves laying beside the road four years ago, and they are perfect.

Right now I am listening to a 6H8C Sovtek tube (Russian equivalent to 6SN7) and despite it's price ($12.95 TubeDepot.com) it actually sounds better than when I first got it. 
A sage has advised that Soviet Era tubes need at least 100-hrs. of play time to settle down. 

For the price, this NOT a bad tube in the Vali 2, and the first 100 hours were not painful .

As the Affordable Audiophile, we operate on the margins of price, trying to find magic in all the wrong places. 

And BTW-- the glove is called a Terminator and sell for $7 a pair.


----------



## LuczOr

I think I'm about to become the newest Vali 2 owner. I bought a Fulla 2 about 2 months ago and wanted to get some open back headphones. I ended up on Massdrop and chose the HE4XX over the HD6XX, but I might pick up the HD6XX some time later since they seem to be pretty different cans. 

This got me looking into an amp that would suit both of those. Since I could use the Fulla 2 as a DAC I started looking into stand alone amps. I am interested in tubes for the roll-your-own effect, not to mention I could have a HE4XX tube and a HD6XX tube. OTL seems like it's not very well suited to low impedance cans and the HE4XX is 35 Ohm. That got me looking at tube hybrid and this seems like a pretty good call. I've been pretty pleased with Schiit so far so Vali 2 seems like the ticket.

I'm not worried about the Vali driving the Hifimans, but I was wondering how well it pairs with the Senns at 300 Ohms.

PS. This whole rabbit hole thing is no joke once you really start listening closely.


----------



## RickB

LuczOr said:


> I think I'm about to become the newest Vali 2 owner. I bought a Fulla 2 about 2 months ago and wanted to get some open back headphones. I ended up on Massdrop and chose the HE4XX over the HD6XX, but I might pick up the HD6XX some time later since they seem to be pretty different cans.
> 
> This got me looking into an amp that would suit both of those. Since I could use the Fulla 2 as a DAC I started looking into stand alone amps. I am interested in tubes for the roll-your-own effect, not to mention I could have a HE4XX tube and a HD6XX tube. OTL seems like it's not very well suited to low impedance cans and the HE4XX is 35 Ohm. That got me looking at tube hybrid and this seems like a pretty good call. I've been pretty pleased with Schiit so far so Vali 2 seems like the ticket.
> 
> ...



The Vali 2 is great with the Senn 300 Ohm cans. It's all I use now.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

LuczOr said:


> I think I'm about to become the newest Vali 2 owner. I bought a Fulla 2 about 2 months ago and wanted to get some open back headphones. I ended up on Massdrop and chose the HE4XX over the HD6XX, but I might pick up the HD6XX some time later since they seem to be pretty different cans.
> 
> This got me looking into an amp that would suit both of those. Since I could use the Fulla 2 as a DAC I started looking into stand alone amps. I am interested in tubes for the roll-your-own effect, not to mention I could have a HE4XX tube and a HD6XX tube. OTL seems like it's not very well suited to low impedance cans and the HE4XX is 35 Ohm. That got me looking at tube hybrid and this seems like a pretty good call. I've been pretty pleased with Schiit so far so Vali 2 seems like the ticket.
> 
> ...


My Vali-2 (still using its stock no name tube) powers my Sennheiser HD650 cans with ease. I flick the gain switch to high. Love it. Love it.


----------



## Keno18

LuczOr said:


> I think I'm about to become the newest Vali 2 owner. I bought a Fulla 2 about 2 months ago and wanted to get some open back headphones. I ended up on Massdrop and chose the HE4XX over the HD6XX, but I might pick up the HD6XX some time later since they seem to be pretty different cans.
> 
> This got me looking into an amp that would suit both of those. Since I could use the Fulla 2 as a DAC I started looking into stand alone amps. I am interested in tubes for the roll-your-own effect, not to mention I could have a HE4XX tube and a HD6XX tube. OTL seems like it's not very well suited to low impedance cans and the HE4XX is 35 Ohm. That got me looking at tube hybrid and this seems like a pretty good call. I've been pretty pleased with Schiit so far so Vali 2 seems like the ticket.
> 
> ...


The rabbit hole gets much deeper when you start tube rolling.


----------



## Grado Diesel

Robert Padgett said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, I have arrived at Audio Nirvana. A Tung-Sol 6SN7GT 'Mouse-ears' atop the Vali 2 HP amp with adapter and socket-saver.
> Having never heard a tube HP amp before the Vali 2, this is quite an upgrade from the stock 6N1P/6922 tube with the Vali 2.
> 6SN7 is a very good match with Jason's electronics. I recommend it highly



How does the Tungsole sound compared to the stock tube? And what’s the name of the tube depot adapter you need? I’ve been using a Genelex Gold Lion ECC88 with mine paired with Hifiman HE400i for two years now and just switched to an Electroharmonix 6CG7. It nicely rolls the harshness of the highs off, makes them sound more natural, warms up and makes the bass more punchy.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Grado Diesel said:


> How does the Tungsole sound compared to the stock tube? And what’s the name of the tube depot adapter you need? I’ve been using a Genelex Gold Lion ECC88 with mine paired with Hifiman HE400i for two years now and just switched to an Electroharmonix 6CG7. It nicely rolls the harshness of the highs off, makes them sound more natural, warms up and makes the bass more punchy.


unfortunately, I dropped that blessed tube, and it perished. It is a 6SN7 tube which requires a "6SN7 to E88CC" adapter, which are on eBay from Hong Kong. The difference between a 6SN7 on a Vali 2--any 6SN7--is a larger sound-stage, with more depth and character to the Music. My opinion.  There are other "Mouse-ears" available and I suspect that one was getting close to 70%, because i only paid $9 with shipping. I would recommend going to a 6SN7 tube. Right now I am listening to a new production JJ-electronics tube. It is very good sounding, but it is no "Mouse-ears"


----------



## Keno18

Grado Diesel said:


> How does the Tungsole sound compared to the stock tube? And what’s the name of the tube depot adapter you need? I’ve been using a Genelex Gold Lion ECC88 with mine paired with Hifiman HE400i for two years now and just switched to an Electroharmonix 6CG7. It nicely rolls the harshness of the highs off, makes them sound more natural, warms up and makes the bass more punchy.


For all the information you will need and any questions you might ask go to the "Vali 2 tube rolling" thread. There are even photos of all the pieces you need.


----------



## Keno18 (Jan 24, 2019)

Fired up a vintage 1984 Proton 930 stereo receiver and am in the process of comparing it to the Vali 2. Initial impressions are the Vali has better low-end speed but the Proton has an authority to it the Vali can't match. More to follow.
Edit: The Vali has better detail retrieval. All round cleaner sound. The Proton may have a bigger sound but the Vali is still my favorite.


----------



## timb5881

LuczOr said:


> I think I'm about to become the newest Vali 2 owner. I bought a Fulla 2 about 2 months ago and wanted to get some open back headphones. I ended up on Massdrop and chose the HE4XX over the HD6XX, but I might pick up the HD6XX some time later since they seem to be pretty different cans.
> 
> This got me looking into an amp that would suit both of those. Since I could use the Fulla 2 as a DAC I started looking into stand alone amps. I am interested in tubes for the roll-your-own effect, not to mention I could have a HE4XX tube and a HD6XX tube. OTL seems like it's not very well suited to low impedance cans and the HE4XX is 35 Ohm. That got me looking at tube hybrid and this seems like a pretty good call. I've been pretty pleased with Schiit so far so Vali 2 seems like the ticket.
> 
> ...


It does fine with my HD6xx.


----------



## luckybaer

This is a $149 tube hybrid headphone amp.  I wouldn't go _too _crazy spending _a lot _of money on tubes and stuff.  But, the again, I'm one to talk, as I've got a handful of tubes (none of which cost more than $60, and half of them are $30 or less).  I like this little amp so much, that I pulled it out of storage and placed it back into my system.  It isn't as resolving or transparent as the Taurus MkII (which costs 10x as Vali 2), but it is one heck of an amp, and fun to fiddle with tubes.


----------



## Robert Padgett (Jan 25, 2019)

luckybaer said:


> This is a $149 tube hybrid headphone amp.  I wouldn't go _too _crazy spending _a lot _of money on tubes and stuff.  But, the again, I'm one to talk, as I've got a handful of tubes (none of which cost more than $60, and half of them are $30 or less).  I like this little amp so much, that I pulled it out of storage and placed it back into my system.  It isn't as resolving or transparent as the Taurus MkII (which costs 10x as Vali 2), but it is one heck of an amp, and fun to fiddle with tubes.


Wow am I glad I read that... I thought I was careening off the rails when I bought a matched pair of Russian 6H8C Fotons for $40... My Mouse-ears was under $10 with shipping, and I have a pair of 6J5s for $14 just waiting on the dual adapters. I have considered that I have spent more on tubes than on the amp...but that is what's fun, switching tubes...


----------



## Grado Diesel

Does it really make that much of a difference using the high gain vs low gain setting on the Vali 2? I’ve been running mine into a pair of Hifiman HE400i’s for over 2 years on the low gain setting. Comfortable listening levels with is setup is about noon on the volume pot. Recently I read in a review that the low gain setting has uses negative feedback and that I’ll hear the tubes characteristics more in high gain. That brings my comfortable listen level down to 8-9 o’clock. Is this the way to go? I’m wondering if i’m sacrificing stereo balance that low on the volume pot. Also on high gain the highs almost seem harsh.


----------



## Keno18

Grado Diesel said:


> Does it really make that much of a difference using the high gain vs low gain setting on the Vali 2? I’ve been running mine into a pair of Hifiman HE400i’s for over 2 years on the low gain setting. Comfortable listening levels with is setup is about noon on the volume pot. Recently I read in a review that the low gain setting has uses negative feedback and that I’ll hear the tubes characteristics more in high gain. That brings my comfortable listen level down to 8-9 o’clock. Is this the way to go? I’m wondering if i’m sacrificing stereo balance that low on the volume pot. Also on high gain the highs almost seem harsh.


On high gain you're probably hearing more of the tube's character. If you prefer the sound in low gain leave it that way. You're not depriving yourself of anything. If you leave it in high gain you'll have to tube roll until you find something you like.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Grado Diesel said:


> Does it really make that much of a difference using the high gain vs low gain setting on the Vali 2? I’ve been running mine into a pair of Hifiman HE400i’s for over 2 years on the low gain setting. Comfortable listening levels with is setup is about noon on the volume pot. Recently I read in a review that the low gain setting has uses negative feedback and that I’ll hear the tubes characteristics more in high gain. That brings my comfortable listen level down to 8-9 o’clock. Is this the way to go? I’m wondering if i’m sacrificing stereo balance that low on the volume pot. Also on high gain the highs almost seem harsh.



Welcome to one of the hairiest topics in all of the audiophilia...
Hi vs Lo, the eternal battle of the gain switch. 
One question may provide you the very best opinion--What sounds better to you? 
And I am not being a smarty--there are so many factors, like the tube, the type of tube (6SN7 or 6922), the HPs-- high-efficiency or high impedance, and to be really honest, there is no "right answer".

It really boils down to flipping the flipping switch, and if you like that better--well there you have it. 
And if you roll the tubes, or try different HPs, it is so easy to flip it and try both. 

Enjoy the Music, my friend


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Jan 29, 2019)

Grado Diesel said:


> Does it really make that much of a difference using the high gain vs low gain setting on the Vali 2? I’ve been running mine into a pair of Hifiman HE400i’s for over 2 years on the low gain setting. Comfortable listening levels with is setup is about noon on the volume pot. Recently I read in a review that the low gain setting has uses negative feedback and that I’ll hear the tubes characteristics more in high gain. That brings my comfortable listen level down to 8-9 o’clock. Is this the way to go? I’m wondering if i’m sacrificing stereo balance that low on the volume pot. Also on high gain the highs almost seem harsh.





Keno18 said:


> On high gain you're probably hearing more of the tube's character. If you prefer the sound in low gain leave it that way. You're not depriving yourself of anything. If you leave it in high gain you'll have to tube roll until you find something you like.





Robert Padgett said:


> Welcome to one of the hairiest topics in all of the audiophilia...
> Hi vs Lo, the eternal battle of the gain switch.
> One question may provide you the very best opinion--What sounds better to you?
> And I am not being a smarty--there are so many factors, like the tube, the type of tube (6SN7 or 6922), the HPs-- high-efficiency or high impedance, and to be really honest, there is no "right answer".
> ...



My audio nervosa gets itchy with gain switches, and whether I can really detect a difference between _*carefully*_ produced 16-bit (CD) and 24-bit FLAC from a place like HD-Tracks. I use my gain switches to have finer volume control (tiny volume knobs... Yeti-large-sized fingers). @Baldr made an (recent) post about how the Multi-bit architecture was designed for commercially-produced discs. ...or that's how I interpreted it.

Perception. Perception. Perception.


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> My audio nervosa gets itchy with gain switches, and whether I can really detect a difference between _*carefully*_ produced 16-bit (CD) and 24-bit FLAC from a place like HD-Tracks. I use my gain switches to have finer volume control (tiny volume knobs... Yeti-large-sized fingers). @Baldr made an (recent) post about how the Multi-bit architecture was designed for commercially-produced discs. ...or that's how I interpreted it.
> 
> Perception. Perception. Perception.



"Our gear is best with a relationship. We do our very best to provide consistent audio _reproduction_. The clients we enjoy the most are those who understand this. It is designed to be routinely at its best with Redbook CD audio, some 37 years after its introduction. The Redbook digital audio still is the lion’s share of all digital recordings in existence today. All Schiit DACs, and particularly the Multibits are designed to be at their best with Redbook sources. This has nothing to do with “tuning” and everything to do with accurate reproduction. Schiit DACs are not designed to have tinkly highs, wide soundstage, bass slam, etc. They are designed to reproduce a recording which existed as acoustic energy at one time (original recording). The greatest sonic benefit for the most people seeking a reproduction of music. The greatest source of original recordings is Redbook." -- @Baldr

I had never seen it written out, but I had long suspected that the design philosophy for Schiit was indeed to the maximum benefit from the Music we own (16/44.1 Shannon-Nyquist CD, standard Redbook), rather than what we might need to buy (DSD, MQA, SACD). When I read a comparative analysis which uses a DSD or SACD source, and the reviewer seems unimpressed by Schiit, I know that what I hear from my CD collection reaches and exceeds my expectations.


----------



## luckybaer

Robert Padgett said:


> Wow am I glad I read that... I thought I was careening off the rails when I bought a matched pair of Russian 6H8C Fotons for $40... My Mouse-ears was under $10 with shipping, and I have a pair of 6J5s for $14 just waiting on the dual adapters. I have considered that I have spent more on tubes than on the amp...but that is what's fun, switching tubes...


Out of curiosity, why did you respond in such a sarcastic manner?  Did you miss the part where I even admitted I spent a decent amount of $$ on tubes?  I also had a favorable comment on the amp itself.  If my intent was to insult those who (like myself) spent $$ tube rolling w/Vali 2, the tone and language in my post would have made it obvious.

Again, just so there is no misunderstanding:  the original post had NO intentions of insulting anyone.  If you were offended, please do not construe this as an apology.


----------



## Robert Padgett

I am sorry that you read that as sarcastic. I was only sharing my experience with tube rolling rather inexpensive tubes on the Vali 2. 
I was glad to read that you were having a similar experience. 
My fear of spending a great deal of money on a $149 tube amp, like yours is a real factor in my tube buying. I have been very lucky to get a 6SN7 Mouse-ears for $10, but alas, I dropped it and it broke. 
The pair of FOTONs were purchased for use on a Valhalla using 6SN7 adapters--sometime in the future, and they were 1951 issue, so they will only increase in value. But I didn't buy them to gloat or brag or re-sell them, they were highly recommended for the VH2. 
If you look up 6J5s, then you will understand that $14/pair for vintage valves is quite reasonable, and I am waiting on the dual adapter to use on the Vali 2.
So out of curiosity, what part of my post seemed sarcastic to you? 
I read that you had bought some $30 tubes, and I agreed, having bought a pair for $40. What I was saying is that I am glad that there are other "rollers" who aren't afraid of investing in tubes which are a large fraction of the cost of the amp.
My suggestion is to chill out, listen to your Music, and not be so sensitive to your perceived impressions. 
We are all on the same boat--tube rolling-- because it is fun. 
Picking apart my post to find evil intent was a waste of your time, and now two posts later, we are still trying to help you understand.
And trust me, if I was being sarcastic, you would know it, because hyperbole and exaggeration are sometimes humorous. 
I don't regret buying a $48 Telefunken E88CC-TK, but it was before I even had a Vali 2 to play it with...then found out the desirable TFs were German, not new production. 
Live and learn. Chill and Enjoy...we are on the same side, Comrade.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Robert Padgett said:


> "Our gear is best with a relationship. We do our very best to provide consistent audio _reproduction_. The clients we enjoy the most are those who understand this. It is designed to be routinely at its best with Redbook CD audio, some 37 years after its introduction. The Redbook digital audio still is the lion’s share of all digital recordings in existence today. All Schiit DACs, and particularly the Multibits are designed to be at their best with Redbook sources. This has nothing to do with “tuning” and everything to do with accurate reproduction. Schiit DACs are not designed to have tinkly highs, wide soundstage, bass slam, etc. They are designed to reproduce a recording which existed as acoustic energy at one time (original recording). The greatest sonic benefit for the most people seeking a reproduction of music. The greatest source of original recordings is Redbook." -- @Baldr
> ...{snip}.....
> I had never seen it written out, but I had long suspected that the design philosophy for Schiit was indeed to the maximum benefit from the Music we own (16/44.1 Shannon-Nyquist CD, standard Redbook), rather than what we might need to buy (DSD, MQA, SACD). When I read a comparative analysis which uses a DSD or SACD source, and the reviewer seems unimpressed by Schiit, I know that what I hear from my CD collection reaches and exceeds my expectations.



For me, it's the first time Schiit's co founder laid our their reason *WHY* they developed multibit. *Perhaps the chapters referred to it... and I just didn't pick it up*. I had my "ah ha" moment with multibit. Good fun. 

..._*of course it could be all hoo-haa and psychosomatic... That doesn't bother me any more (and I'll ultimately pick up a Gungnir x.x ... with the Multibit-kung-foo-grip), eh*_.


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> For me, it's the first time Schiit's co founder laid our their reason *WHY* they developed multibit. *Perhaps the chapters referred to it... and I just didn't pick it up*. I had my "ah ha" moment with multibit. Good fun.
> 
> ..._*of course it could be all hoo-haa and psychosomatic... That doesn't bother me any more (and I'll ultimately pick up a Gungnir x.x ... with the Multibit-kung-foo-grip), eh*_.



Gumby on b-stock sale list today


----------



## Robert Padgett

Dual 6J5GT into a 6922 adapter. Awesome separation of the channels, no cross-talk in the headphones, and makes the Speakers sound binaural.  

www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6J5G-6C5G-VT-94-CV1932-L63-VR67-TO-ECC88-6922-tube-converter-adapter-/201458214762


----------



## ScubaMan2017

CAPT Deadpool said:


> Having lived several winters in Fairbanks, AK...{snip}.....





Robert Padgett said:


> Dual 6J5GT into a 6922 adapter. Awesome separation of the channels, no cross-talk in the headphones, and makes the Speakers sound binaural.
> 
> www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6J5G-6C5G-VT-94-CV1932-L63-VR67-TO-ECC88-6922-tube-converter-adapter-/201458214762



With apologies to _The Rocky Horror Picture Show_. Doctor Frankenfurter would have approved of this... um... modification.



Source: http://gifsfromgod.tumblr.com/post/3777232899/rocky-horror-picture-show-dr-frank-n-furter . Downloaded/uploaded January 29, 2019. Author: ? Published ~7 years ago.

I can see you shiver, 
with antici........


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Robert Padgett said:


> Gumby on b-stock sale list today


Need to set funds aside. January & February are cold and lean.  Oh yes, I'm watching that list.... very.... intently.
 
Source: http://www.dumpaday.com/funny-pictures/30-funny-soon-meme-pics/ ; downloaded/uploaded January 29, 2019; Posted May 16, 2013. Author (user): Jon.


----------



## RickB (Feb 12, 2019)

.


----------



## LuczOr

Just started listening to my new-to-me Vali 2 (thanks @RickB ) I'm using the stock tube right now just to get a flavor for it. Plopped my HE4XX on my noggin and my first though was, "wow, that's definitely warmer." I've been listening to it for around an hour and I have already gotten used to it so I can't really tell anymore. Or the tube has warmed up. Either way, I'm a happy listener right now and exicted to try the other tubes I got with it (again, thanks @RickB ).


----------



## Robert Padgett

LuczOr said:


> Just started listening to my new-to-me Vali 2 (thanks @RickB ) I'm using the stock tube right now just to get a flavor for it. Plopped my HE4XX on my noggin and my first though was, "wow, that's definitely warmer." I've been listening to it for around an hour and I have already gotten used to it so I can't really tell anymore. Or the tube has warmed up. Either way, I'm a happy listener right now and exicted to try the other tubes I got with it (again, thanks @RickB ).


Welcome to the world of tube rolling. Try a 6SN7 with adapter...lots of good glass out there in that type.


----------



## LuczOr

Robert Padgett said:


> Welcome to the world of tube rolling. Try a 6SN7 with adapter...lots of good glass out there in that type.



I too, have heard of the glory of the 6SN7, but I just can't get over the look of the 6SN7 sticking out of the tiny amp. By the time I get through the Vali tubes I already have, I will probably upgrade to Lyr 3.


----------



## BrokenTangent

Robert Padgett said:


> Dual 6J5GT into a 6922 adapter. Awesome separation of the channels, no cross-talk in the headphones, and makes the Speakers sound binaural.
> 
> www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6J5G-6C5G-VT-94-CV1932-L63-VR67-TO-ECC88-6922-tube-converter-adapter-/201458214762








I am very OK with this modification.


----------



## Grado Diesel

How does the gain switch correlate to the ohms rating on the headphones being used? Or is there no relation? For example, for two years straight I powered my Hifiman HE-400i’s which are 35ohm, with my Vali 2 on low gain. Everything sounded pretty good to my ears. Recently I had read an article about high gain exposing more of what the tube has to offer so I switch to that. On high gain I find the sibilance and some of the normal highs to be too much. On the other hand I just started using Sennheiser HD6XX’s with my Vali 2 today and they love the high gain. Sound great!


----------



## Robert Padgett

Grado Diesel said:


> How does the gain switch correlate to the ohms rating on the headphones being used? Or is there no relation? For example, for two years straight I powered my Hifiman HE-400i’s which are 35ohm, with my Vali 2 on low gain. Everything sounded pretty good to my ears. Recently I had read an article about high gain exposing more of what the tube has to offer so I switch to that. On high gain I find the sibilance and some of the normal highs to be too much. On the other hand I just started using Sennheiser HD6XX’s with my Vali 2 today and they love the high gain. Sound great!


The gain switch on Schiit HP amps is the source of almost as much controversy as any other topic. There is no correlation, and there is no "right answer"...
If it sounds better in Hi-Gain, use Hi, if it sounds better with lo gain, use low. Let your ears and your equipment dictate what sounds best to you.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Robert Padgett said:


> The gain switch on Schiit HP amps is the source of almost as much controversy as any other topic. There is no correlation, and there is no "right answer"...
> If it sounds better in Hi-Gain, use Hi, if it sounds better with lo gain, use low. Let your ears and your equipment dictate what sounds best to you.


*Heh. Listen to Mister Padgett! *I use the gain switch as a way to get finer volume control on my Magni3. For my Senheisser HD650 clones (from Massdrop), the HI setting appears to also provide a 'fuller sound'. Meh... my 2 cents' worth.


----------



## Mr Trev

From the tests I've read hi gain does have higher distortion (the good tubey kind) than low, but honestly, I can't really pick up much of a difference.
The biggest reason I find for choosing between hi/low gain is tube noise. With my easier to drive phones - and especially iems, I'll use low gain so any hum/noise is eliminated. Otherwise I stick to high - you know just in case it really does sound better (at the expense of only being able to use 30% of the pot range)


----------



## Robert Padgett (Mar 9, 2019)

The Mouse is back...
I found this delicious 8/51 Hytron Mouse-Ears, it is black three-hole plates. My 53 Tung-sol was two-hole gray plates.


----------



## Mr Trev (Mar 9, 2019)

Robert Padgett said:


> The Mouse is back...
> I found this delicious 8/51 Hytron Mouse-Ears, it is black three-hole plates. My 53 Tung-sol was two-hole gray plates.



Interesting. Had to check mine… Zeinth rebrand, 2 hole, grey plates.
Going to have to go looking for one before @bcowen or the rest of the Loonies of Lyr™ snap them up

<edit> found this thing from everybody's favourite seller: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Rare-Factor...T-231-6SN7GT-Hytron-BadBoy-Plate/273109275238
Rare. Super rare. Like a 3-legged Lincoln penny


----------



## Robert Padgett

Mr Trev said:


> Interesting. Had to check mine… Zeinth rebrand, 2 hole, grey plates.
> Going to have to go looking for one before @bcowen or the rest of the Loonies of Lyr™ snap them up
> 
> <edit> found this thing from everybody's favourite seller: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Rare-Factor...T-231-6SN7GT-Hytron-BadBoy-Plate/273109275238
> Rare. Super rare. Like a 3-legged Lincoln penny



Yes I have managed to steer clear of that cat.  I didn't turn up anything except praise of the Tung-sol which is gray and 2-holes, like the remains of mine...this could be a rare bird, not because of mismatched plates but because they are three-hole and black.


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> <edit> found this thing from everybody's favourite seller: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Rare-Factor...T-231-6SN7GT-Hytron-BadBoy-Plate/273109275238
> Rare. Super rare. Like a 3-legged Lincoln penny



I'm LMAO.  He's had that tube listed for well over 6 months now.  Perhaps in another 6 months the automatic price drops will take it down to $5, which is still probably more than it's worth.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Robert Padgett said:


> Yes I have managed to steer clear of that cat.  I didn't turn up anything except praise of the Tung-sol which is gray and 2-holes, like the remains of mine...this could be a rare bird, not because of mismatched plates but because they are three-hole and black.


_Reputation is everything_. Hmm, I'll keep that in mind.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

bcowen said:


> I'm LMAO.  He's had that tube listed for well over 6 months now.  Perhaps in another 6 months the automatic price drops will take it down to $5, which is still probably more than it's worth.


I went to the vendor's site. Six hundred and fifty American Dollars... EACH?! Yeahhhhhhhhh no.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> I'm LMAO.  He's had that tube listed for well over 6 months now.  Perhaps in another 6 months the automatic price drops will take it down to $5, which is still probably more than it's worth.



I guess for those people who can't decide if they should get a 2 hole badboy or 3 hole version, you can have both - AIO



Robert Padgett said:


> Yes I have managed to steer clear of that cat.  I didn't turn up anything except praise of the Tung-sol which is gray and 2-holes, like the remains of mine...this could be a rare bird, not because of mismatched plates but because they are three-hole and black.



I haven't exactly been around the tube block myself, but this is first I've heard about any variants of the mouse ear.


----------



## bcowen (Mar 10, 2019)

Mr Trev said:


> I haven't exactly been around the tube block myself, but this is first I've heard about any variants of the mouse ear.



There's the version we're all familiar with, and then the glass-less version that Robert has.  It may sound really good but it's not rated for very many hours.


----------



## Robert Padgett

bcowen said:


> I'm LMAO.  He's had that tube listed for well over 6 months now.  Perhaps in another 6 months the automatic price drops will take it down to $5, which is still probably more than it's worth.


Are you talking about the bangy tube or the three hole mouse-ears dated 8/51?


----------



## bcowen

Robert Padgett said:


> Are you talking about the bangy tube or the three hole mouse-ears dated 8/51?



I'm LMAO at the BangyBang tube.  For that matter, I LMAO at _*all*_ of BangyBang's tubes. It's just unfortunate that unknowing people perpetuate his continuing fraud by sending him money.


----------



## Robert Padgett

bcowen said:


> I'm LMAO at the BangyBang tube.  For that matter, I LMAO at _*all*_ of BangyBang's tubes. It's just unfortunate that unknowing people perpetuate his continuing fraud by sending him money.


Bill-what do you know about very early Mouse-ears--three hole black plates marked  "H 8/51"  sold as Hytron Mouse-ears?


----------



## bcowen

Robert Padgett said:


> Bill-what do you know about very early Mouse-ears--three hole black plates marked  "H 8/51"  sold as Hytron Mouse-ears?



Nothing, sorry. 

I _*am*_ learning about 1578's though if that doesn't help as little.


----------



## Rwit

I have a dumb question. I'm thinking of getting a Vali 2 from the current B-stock and wondering if the tube gets very hot or could burn somebody. My toddler uses my desk sometimes and I won't get it if there's any chance he could get hurt from the tube.

Sorry again if that's a dumb question. I've obviously never owned a tube amp!


----------



## bcowen

Rwit said:


> I have a dumb question. I'm thinking of getting a Vali 2 from the current B-stock and wondering if the tube gets very hot or could burn somebody. My toddler uses my desk sometimes and I won't get it if there's any chance he could get hurt from the tube.
> 
> Sorry again if that's a dumb question. I've obviously never owned a tube amp!



There are tube amps and there are tube amps.   The 211 tubes I had in some amps a while back would remove your skin with even a momentary touch at full operating temperature. The 9-pin tube in a Vali 2 won't get hot enough to cause burns, even with a toddlers tender skin. It'll get uncomfortable enough to be in contact with long before any damage is done. There *is* the glass/toddler factor though, and a tube's broken glass will cut just as easily as any other broken glass....


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Rwit said:


> I have a dumb question. I'm thinking of getting a Vali 2 from the current B-stock and wondering if the tube gets very hot or could burn somebody. My toddler uses my desk sometimes and I won't get it if there's any chance he could get hurt from the tube.
> 
> Sorry again if that's a dumb question. I've obviously never owned a tube amp!



_That's NOT a dumb question. _The Vali's tube is warm to the touch. I wouldn't pull it out with my bare hands (while its running)... in my case, I'd be concerned about dropping the tube. They're built like a thick-walled incandescent light bulb. If you use the same precautions as attempting to unscrew a 'lit' bulb, you (and your child) will be safe. And the glowing tube isn't blazing like a flare. It's an orange glow. The biggest concern I'd have is one leaving tubes rolling around on the floor and your child sticks it into her mouth!

My Vali's stock tube's firmly anchored in place.Your child will have to be given quite a bit of unsupervised time (and dexterous, upper-body-strength) with this amp to wiggle it free. 



bcowen said:


> There are tube amps and there are tube amps.   The 211 tubes I had in some amps a while back would remove your skin with even a momentary touch at full operating temperature. The 9-pin tube in a Vali 2 won't get hot enough to cause burns, even with a toddlers tender skin. It'll get uncomfortable enough to be in contact with long before any damage is done. There *is* the glass/toddler factor though, and a tube's broken glass will cut just as easily as any other broken glass....


@bcowen 's right on the money. I suspect Schiit Audio chose this particular tube (valve?) for its physical & operating characteristics.

Welcome to the thread, @Rwit


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _That's NOT a dumb question. _The Vali's tube is warm to the touch. I wouldn't pull it out with my bare hands (while its running)... in my case, I'd be concerned about dropping the tube. They're built like a thick-walled incandescent light bulb. If you use the same precautions as attempting to unscrew a 'lit' bulb, you (and your child) will be safe. And the glowing tube isn't blazing like a flare. It's an orange glow. The biggest concern I'd have is one leaving tubes rolling around on the floor and your child sticks it into her mouth!
> 
> My Vali's stock tube's firmly anchored in place.Your child will have to be given quite a bit of unsupervised time (and dexterous, upper-body-strength) with this amp to wiggle it free.
> 
> ...



And using a nine-pin socket saver will lift the tube out of the chassis enough to cool itself better.


----------



## jaywillin

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _That's NOT a dumb question. _The Vali's tube is warm to the touch. I wouldn't pull it out with my bare hands (while its running)... in my case, I'd be concerned about dropping the tube. They're built like a thick-walled incandescent light bulb. If you use the same precautions as attempting to unscrew a 'lit' bulb, you (and your child) will be safe. And the glowing tube isn't blazing like a flare. It's an orange glow. The biggest concern I'd have is one leaving tubes rolling around on the floor and your child sticks it into her mouth!
> 
> My Vali's stock tube's firmly anchored in place.Your child will have to be given quite a bit of unsupervised time (and dexterous, upper-body-strength) with this amp to wiggle it free.
> 
> ...


----------



## jaywillin

whoops, i didn't do that quite right !


----------



## Rwit

Thank you for all of the advice. I decided to buy the Vali 2 from B-stock. Unlike my Fulla 2 (which drives my computer speakers) it won't be on all the time, will be far enough back on the desk he can't reach it, and he is always supervised when sitting at the desk anyway. I'll just have to teach him not to play with daddy's toys


----------



## bcowen

Rwit said:


> I'll just have to teach him not to play with daddy's toys



Good luck with that part.  Just wait until he's a teenager.


----------



## Mike-WI

bcowen said:


> Good luck with that part.  Just wait until he's a teenager.


I bought my own teenager a Modi->Vali 2 combo (w/ Pyst interconnects). He uses it daily.


----------



## erics75

Rwit said:


> Thank you for all of the advice. I decided to buy the Vali 2 from B-stock. Unlike my Fulla 2 (which drives my computer speakers) it won't be on all the time, will be far enough back on the desk he can't reach it, and he is always supervised when sitting at the desk anyway. I'll just have to teach him not to play with daddy's toys


burning isnt as big of a danger as cutting from broken tubes. my little one tried to lunge and grab my lyr 3 tube and cracked it. thankfully he did not cut himself. but i did removing the broken tube! daddy was not happy.... daddy also ditched tubes at home because of the little beasts...


----------



## Robert Padgett

Fellow tube rollers, if you have purchased a 6SN7 to 6922 adapters from Tube Depot, you will have noticed that the pins are longer than the socket saver is deep, leaving exposed pins. I have ordered a bag of 11mm rubber o-rings (nine-pines are 12mm across) so a couple of o-rings should conceal the 
 pins and protect against something getting in there and shorting out your amp


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Robert Padgett said:


> Fellow tube rollers, if you have purchased a 6SN7 to 6922 adapters from Tube Depot, you will have noticed that the pins are longer than the socket saver is deep, leaving exposed pins. I have ordered a bag of 11mm rubber o-rings (nine-pines are 12mm across) so a couple of o-rings should conceal the  pins and protect against something getting in there and shorting out your amp


My knee-jerk reaction would be to snip them to size. And then use plyers to straighten them out. I wonder how successful I’d be?


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> My knee-jerk reaction would be to snip them to size. And then use plyers to straighten them out. I wonder how successful I’d be?


Before I ordered the o-rings, I search high and low for my good diagonal cutters, because the one I had were dull. 
You know as soon as I ordered them, I found the diagonal cutters and trimmed them, but I still see daylight between them and the socket savers, so one o-ring should allow the adapter to seat better.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Robert Padgett said:


> Before I ordered the o-rings, I search high and low for my good diagonal cutters, because the one I had were dull.
> You know as soon as I ordered them, I found the diagonal cutters and trimmed them, but I still see daylight between them and the socket savers, so one o-ring should allow the adapter to seat better.


The O-ring fix is the way to go. I'll go to a local plumbing supply store to sort myself out (_no chopping copper pins_).


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> The O-ring fix is the way to go. I'll go to a local plumbing supply store to sort myself out (_no chopping copper pins_).


I was concerned that they may have a core and would need to have ends soldered to work, but they are solid core pins and it was an easy trim.


----------



## MaskedRacerX

Joseph021012 said:


> Several good rca for schiit stacks I've heard of includes the schiit pyst cables, monoprice cables, and the intropose rigid cross connect which I use personally.
> The monoprice are a good bargain but I like the intropose because it looks nice. GL



How well does the Intropose work with the Vali 2?  I'm assuming you're using it to connect a Modi of some flavor - I thought I saw a comment somewhere that it didn't quite line up with a Vali like it does with a Magni.  I'm specifically running a Vali 2 with a Modi 3 (not sure if the ports moved between Modi models).

Thanks!


----------



## Joseph021012

MaskedRacerX said:


> How well does the Intropose work with the Vali 2?  I'm assuming you're using it to connect a Modi of some flavor - I thought I saw a comment somewhere that it didn't quite line up with a Vali like it does with a Magni.  I'm specifically running a Vali 2 with a Modi 3 (not sure if the ports moved between Modi models).
> 
> Thanks!


It's about the same as any other cable but it looks cooler and it keeps it stacked perfectly.


----------



## MaskedRacerX (Mar 26, 2019)

OK, great thanks.  I thought I read somewhere that the Vali using that cable-bracket wasn't quite aligned (sounds like the Magni and Vali ports are in the same position).

Oh yeah, it was a review right from their site (see below), but the buyer qualified it might be due to their install, so maybe it's nothing 

*Highly Recommend This*
*swotchnollie* on *Oct 17, 2018*
It's the same price as the cables from Schiit iirc but takes up much less space.
Unless you wanted to put your equipment side by side instead of stacking it I believe this is the better option.

Using it with a Modi 3 + Vali 2, not exactly a perfect fit but it's not noticeable unless you look for it and still works great.
Comes with 4 rubber feet to help fill that gap that the connector creates between the equipment.
For this particular setup they're about 1mm too short to fill the gap perfectly and the Vali 2 is offset by about 2mm but I don't find that to be an issue since everything still works.

Might fiddle around with it some time to see if the alignment is user error.


----------



## bcowen

MaskedRacerX said:


> OK, great thanks.  I thought I read somewhere that the Vali using that cable-bracket wasn't quite aligned (sounds like the Magni and Vali ports are in the same position).
> 
> Oh yeah, it was a review right from their site (see below), but the buyer qualified it might be due to their install, so maybe it's nothing
> 
> ...



For a perfect fit, make your own cables.  Not necessarily cheaper, but you can get the exact size you need.


----------



## MaskedRacerX

bcowen said:


> For a perfect fit, make your own cables.  Not necessarily cheaper, but you can get the exact size you need.




Nice, yeah, that would be a fun project, I'm a software engineer / super tinkerer - in fact, I have some speaker pins coming from Amazon tomorrow to make some good, specific sized speaker connection for my new desktop speakers (which sounds fantastic behind the Modi 3 + Vali 2).

I'm currently using a pretty nice set of RCA cables, just looking to reduce my Schiit footprint


----------



## bcowen

MaskedRacerX said:


> Nice, yeah, that would be a fun project, I'm a software engineer / super tinkerer - in fact, I have some speaker pins coming from Amazon tomorrow to make some good, specific sized speaker connection for my new desktop speakers (which sounds fantastic behind the Modi 3 + Vali 2).
> 
> I'm currently using a pretty nice set of RCA cables, just looking to reduce my Schiit footprint



I had the same problem when I started my pile of Schiit. Had a number of good interconnects laying around, but they were all 1 meter or longer and it looked like a rat's nest. So I made those out of cable with OCC copper wire and foamed Teflon dielectric, and it's super flexible which was a big bonus.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> I had the same problem when I started my pile of Schiit. Had a number of good interconnects laying around, but they were all 1 meter or longer and it looked like a rat's nest. So I made those out of cable with OCC copper wire and foamed Teflon dielectric, and it's super flexible which was a big bonus.



How's that saying go… A clean stack is the sign of a sick mind…


----------



## BubbaJay

I ordered a Vali 2 yesterday so I looking forward to hearing how it sounds with my Schiit stack.  I have the original but this will be a much better upgrade to that.  I know my dynamic headphones will sound good but I'm not a huge fan of planars and hybrid amps so I'll see how the 2C sounds with it.

I see people talking about cables and I've used the Monoprice ones for a few years now and feel they work great, plus I save a bit of money which is hard to do in this game.


----------



## Robert Padgett

BubbaJay said:


> I ordered a Vali 2 yesterday so I looking forward to hearing how it sounds with my Schiit stack.  I have the original but this will be a much better upgrade to that.  I know my dynamic headphones will sound good but I'm not a huge fan of planars and hybrid amps so I'll see how the 2C sounds with it.
> 
> I see people talking about cables and I've used the Monoprice ones for a few years now and feel they work great, plus I save a bit of money which is hard to do in this game.



Monoprice is good for the budget end of cables. I have several myself and have not had a bad experience. Like all cables, debates seem to boil down to preference and priority. I replaced all my USB cables with Monoprice because the cable seems more robust, the connections make a better fit. But, without setting off another chapter in the cable debate, I simply don't see much advantage in data cables being high-priced. Signal cables are a bit different, because of shielding noise, so a better quality wire and better connections are worthwhile. Cablesforless.com has a listing for SPDIF Coaxials, on close-out for less than a dollar each, and from the photo, they look identical to the one I paid $24 for from Bluejeans cables. 

Speaker wires--when my Advents were new, their inventor Henry Kloss stated on the paper stapled to the back of the speaker, that a 'good quality lamp cord' would be needed to connect his loudspeakers to the receiver. I have a good quality run of US-made Belden cables for my speakers, and they sound great. Nothing fancy, no exotic geometry, or oval designs, just good copper wire, well-shielded and properly terminated. Probably the best "wire money" I have spent was for replacement cables for the Senn 6XX headphones. 

Massdrop substitutes a cheap and inferior cable for the stock Sennheiser wire, and I found the Massdrop cables were not even connected inside the plastic molded plug... Because the signal is so critical from the amplifier to transducers, this would be where an investment in a custom replacement cable would make the most sense.


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> How's that saying go… A clean stack is the sign of a sick mind…



If that's true, I likely have the cleanest stack in all of Schiitdom.


----------



## Mr Trev

One day I'll jump on this "stack" thing all you kids keep talking about. I'm still using my Fiio X3 as a DAC being fed from my old laptop running Daphile. Probably best to keep that old laptop as far away from those glass RF antennas as possible


----------



## BubbaJay

The Vali on high gain has a rather high output impedance (5.8 I think) means I'm going to have to run it on low when using my Nightowl because its only 25 ohms.  

Is the ratio 1/6 or 1/8 of the headphone impedance?


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Mar 27, 2019)

Mr Trev said:


> One day I'll jump on this "stack" thing all you kids keep talking about. I'm still using my Fiio X3 as a DAC being fed from my old laptop running Daphile. Probably best to keep that old laptop as far away from those glass RF antennas as possible


Pssh. It's a gateway drug of sorts. I have my stack... and... now I'm looking at a Valhalla2 & an Asgard2 & perched on top of a multibit Gungnir DAC.

I'm doing ugly_, wonderful external mods to my Vali 2_. It's a wonderful little toaster. Awful photos on the Vali Tube Rolling thread.


----------



## BubbaJay

I need to put black electrical tape over the LEDs on my Schiit stack as well.  I guess it never really bothered me that much at night but the darker the better so I will be putting some on tonight.


----------



## MaskedRacerX

I find the glow from the LEDs oddly satisfying   My stack is on my computer desk, so it's already kind of a 70s Sci-Fi light show ...


----------



## bcowen

BubbaJay said:


> The Vali on high gain has a rather high output impedance (5.8 I think) means I'm going to have to run it on low when using my Nightowl because its only 25 ohms.
> 
> Is the ratio 1/6 or 1/8 of the headphone impedance?



1/8 is the mainstream preference.  It all depends on how it sounds though ultimately.


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> One day I'll jump on this "stack" thing all you kids keep talking about. I'm still using my Fiio X3 as a DAC being fed from my old laptop running Daphile. Probably best to keep that old laptop as far away from those glass RF antennas as possible



The 21st century is awaiting, Dad.


----------



## MaskedRacerX

bcowen said:


> The 21st century is awaiting, Dad.




YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!


----------



## BubbaJay

bcowen said:


> 1/8 is the mainstream preference.  It all depends on how it sounds though ultimately.



Thanks, I thought it was 1/6 so I'm glad I know what it is now.

Yeah, I'll have to just hear what they sound like but I feel like 25 ohms in to a 5.8 amp output will sound a bit off.


----------



## BubbaJay

Well I've been using the Vali for a couple of hours now and first impressions are pretty good.  Has the larger soundstage I over the Magni3 which I was expecting and overall the resolution is also good though I feel the Magni3 is a touch better in that department.

As for the headphones I was surprised that my LCD-2C sounds really quite good since I was never a fan of planars and hybrid amps.  I also thought my Nightowl might sound to dark but not so, they sound pretty much the same on the Vali as with the Magni3 in terms of brightness which is a big plus.  I haven't used the Elear yet but their times coming.

So overall I'm liking this little amp and can't wait to start tube rolling so if anyone has some suggestions as to which ones are the best let me know.


----------



## bcowen

BubbaJay said:


> Well I've been using the Vali for a couple of hours now and first impressions are pretty good.  Has the larger soundstage I over the Magni3 which I was expecting and overall the resolution is also good though I feel the Magni3 is a touch better in that department.
> 
> As for the headphones I was surprised that my LCD-2C sounds really quite good since I was never a fan of planars and hybrid amps.  I also thought my Nightowl might sound to dark but not so, they sound pretty much the same on the Vali as with the Magni3 in terms of brightness which is a big plus.  I haven't used the Elear yet but their times coming.
> 
> So overall I'm liking this little amp and can't wait to start tube rolling so if anyone has some suggestions as to which ones are the best let me know.



Get a 60's Telefunken 6DJ8 and call it done.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Get a 60's Telefunken 6DJ8 and call it done.



You know there is no "done", stop getting the poor guy's hopes up.

My suggestion for a tube to start: Cleartop 6CG7.


----------



## BubbaJay

Thanks for the suggestion.  There's a RCA 6CG7 on TubeDepot that I might get..  I don't really want to go over $50 for now so I'll keep looking around but the RCA clear top might be the one I get.


----------



## bkboy12 (Mar 29, 2019)

Greetings, all. I joined the Vali 2 and Magni Multibit party this week, and I’ve enjoyed it so far.

I just ordered from Tube Depot: a *Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tube (balances triodes), a 6SN7 to 6922 Adapter, and a 9 Pin Socket Saver.*

Two questions: is that all I need to connect the tube to the Vali 2, and do I have to remove the chassis to install the socket saver and adapter? Thanks in advance!


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> You know there is no "done", stop getting the poor guy's hopes up.



I was trying to be nice helpful non-enabling lying full of it misleading pragmatic. Didn't work?


----------



## bcowen

bkboy12 said:


> Two questions: is that all I need to connect the tube to the Vali 2, and do I have to remove the chassis to install the socket saver and adapter? Thanks in advance!



1. Yes
2. No


----------



## bkboy12

bcowen said:


> 1. Yes
> 2. No




Sweet! Thanks for the help!


----------



## BubbaJay (Mar 29, 2019)

Ok, at TubeDepot when getting a tube you can select things like balanced strides, gain and a couple of others.  My question is would it be worth it to get any of them and if so which one's?  I found a 70s Sylvania 6DJ8/ECC88 I'm thinking of getting but don't know if I should get anything to add on.


----------



## BubbaJay

I went ahead and bought the RCA 6CG7 clear top and a Electro-Harmonix 6922 EH.  Spent a bit more than I was going to but you know how that is.


----------



## Keno18 (Mar 30, 2019)

bkboy12 said:


> Greetings, all. I joined the Vali 2 and Magni Multibit party this week, and I’ve enjoyed it so far.
> 
> I just ordered from Tube Depot: a *Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tube (balances triodes), a 6SN7 to 6922 Adapter, and a 9 Pin Socket Saver.*
> 
> Two questions: is that all I need to connect the tube to the Vali 2, and do I have to remove the chassis to install the socket saver and adapter? Thanks in advance!


Now that you have the adapters, you might want to look at the Tung-Sol 6sn7gt "mouse ears". I've recommended them several times before and have had nothing but complementary results.


----------



## bkboy12

Keno18 said:


> Now that you have the adapters, you might want to look at the Tung-Sol 6sn7gt "mouse ears". I've recommended them several times before and have had nothing complementary results.



Nice to know! I’ll check out Tube Depot and see if they have any. Appreciate the heads up!


----------



## Keno18

bkboy12 said:


> Nice to know! I’ll check out Tube Depot and see if they have any. Appreciate the heads up!


Tube Depot doesn't carry them. Ebay has them. I bought four myself.  Yes, I like them that much. You can also try Brent Jessee's tubes a little more pricey but reliable.


----------



## bkboy12

Keno18 said:


> Tube Depot doesn't carry them. Ebay has them. I bought four myself.  Yes, I like them that much. You can also try Brent Jessee's tubes a little more pricey but reliable.



Haha. You’re the mouse ears man. Yeah, I didn’t see them on Tube Depot. I’ll see what Ebay and Brent Jesse has. I’ll keep you posted.


----------



## BubbaJay

Is it worth getting one of the adaptors?  What makes it better than the current set of tubes you can use?


----------



## bcowen

BubbaJay said:


> Ok, at TubeDepot when getting a tube you can select things like balanced strides, gain and a couple of others.  My question is would it be worth it to get any of them and if so which one's?  I found a 70s Sylvania 6DJ8/ECC88 I'm thinking of getting but don't know if I should get anything to add on.



I've never been real impressed with their add-on stuff. 

 -- $2 for balanced triodes. Balanced within what tolerance? 5%? 10%? 20%?  I'd pay $2 for a 5% or less triode difference. If it's more than 20% they should be returning or dumping the tube and not taking your money for it. Problem is they don't specify what balance they're charging extra for.

-- High gain? What is that? A tube has a design output whether you choose to measure it by emission or transconductance. If a new tube doesn't meet that spec it shouldn't be sold as a new tube. So what exactly is high gain? Tubes that measure with higher emissions or GM than the design spec?  So what? The amp won't know any difference and neither will your ears. This one just really pegs my BS meter.

-- Low noise and microphonics.  Low noise can have value if the tube is used in a phono stage, but if it's noisy enough to be obtrusive in a headphone amp then it's a bad tube. Same with microphonics. 

-- Matching. Doesn't apply to the Vali2, but there's some value in an amp that uses 2 (or more) tubes. Again they don't specify what tolerance they are matching to, so I guess a pair of 6922's could be considered better matched than a 6922 and a 6CG7 paired together.  

I don't mean to be dumping on this dealer...many have reported very good experiences with them. I just consider the add-on stuff to be of dubious value both technically and financially.


----------



## BubbaJay

bcowen said:


> I've never been real impressed with their add-on stuff.
> 
> -- $2 for balanced triodes. Balanced within what tolerance? 5%? 10%? 20%?  I'd pay $2 for a 5% or less triode difference. If it's more than 20% they should be returning or dumping the tube and not taking your money for it. Problem is they don't specify what balance they're charging extra for.
> 
> ...



I didn't getting any because to me it just seemed like something to get you to spend more money.  I'll be happy with the two tubes I got.


----------



## Keno18

BubbaJay said:


> Is it worth getting one of the adaptors?  What makes it better than the current set of tubes you can use?


The 6sn7 is a highly regarded tube. I went through 6922s, 12au7s, rca clear top 12au7s, 6cg7s, (although not the rca clear top 6cg7s which are also well regarded.) 5814s, 12ax7s, and 12at7s. The 6sn7s are also used in Schiit's higher end amps and preamps.


----------



## BubbaJay

I'll see how I like the 2 tubes I bought and then maybe look into getting an adaptor.


----------



## bcowen

BubbaJay said:


> Is it worth getting one of the adaptors?  What makes it better than the current set of tubes you can use?



Don't let these guys drag you down into the rabbit hole. They're like drug dealers handing you something and saying "Here, try this." Next thing you know you're addicted, your whole life in an inescapable death spiral as the money for your mortgage and car payment has all been spent on tube drugs. Soon you're out on the street spending your day at the freeway exit holding a sign saying "Will work for an outlet to plug my Vali into."  

Seriously, adapters give you the ability to try different tube types beyond the 6922 (or similar with the same pinout). Lots of different flavors, lots of different sounds. Necessary? Nope. Fun? Absolutely.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

BubbaJay said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.  There's a RCA 6CG7 on TubeDepot that I might get..  I don't really want to go over $50 for now so I'll keep looking around but the RCA clear top might be the one I get.


That makes sense. When these tubes cost as much as the Vali itself, that just doesn't sit well with me. I suspect the 6CG7 will look less odd than my (socket saver) + (6922-to-6SN7) + (Slovakian JJ 6SN7). Apparently, according to the thread, the internal circuitry identical. _Pssh, I like the look of my modded, aural Frankenstein's monster_. Have fun, @BubbaJay


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Keno18 said:


> Now that you have the adapters, you might want to look at the Tung-Sol 6sn7gt "mouse ears". I've recommended them several times before and have had nothing complementary results.


The "mouse ears" are an odd looking piece of glass. I'm intrigued...


----------



## Mr Trev

BubbaJay said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.  There's a RCA 6CG7 on TubeDepot that I might get..  I don't really want to go over $50 for now so I'll keep looking around but the RCA clear top might be the one I get.



Hope you like the cleartop. You already purchased before I got here, but I was going to mention that rebrands can be had stoopid cheap - mine was under $10 and supposedly has perfectly balanced triodes. Bought it at the same time as a Matsu 7dj8. The poor Maty hasn't had a chance to play (other than to confirm it works)



bcowen said:


> I was trying to be nice helpful non-enabling lying full of it misleading pragmatic. Didn't work?



What's the deal with these Telefunkens you speak of anyways? Can you even get one for less than I paid for the amp? Besides, I thought you were a Amperex 73something guy…


----------



## tafens

Reading this thread has very much interested me in the Vali2, and I was wondering; how does the Vali2 compare to the Lyr3?


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> What's the deal with these Telefunkens you speak of anyways? Can you even get one for less than I paid for the amp? Besides, I thought you were a Amperex 73something guy…



One of my top favorites in the Vali 2. Telefunken was one of the best (if not _the_ best) at this tube type. A liability of the 6DJ8 type is that many can be noisy or microphonic -- the 6922 overcame a lot of those problems. So If I were buying any I'd be sure to get a right of return if it turns out to suffer from noise issues. They can still be had in the $50 - $75 range (for a single) if you keep your eyes peeled. In fact, a pair up right now for $100:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...m3fbe40beaa:g:uIgAAOSwlf5cfdqx&frcectupt=true

The Amperex 7316 is a rich man's 12AU7 and therefore requires an adapter, and is even more $$ than the Tele.  But it's another fave.


----------



## Mr Trev (Mar 30, 2019)

bcowen said:


> One of my top favorites in the Vali 2. Telefunken was one of the best (if not _the_ best) at this tube type. A liability of the 6DJ8 type is that many can be noisy or microphonic -- the 6922 overcame a lot of those problems. So If I were buying any I'd be sure to get a right of return if it turns out to suffer from noise issues. They can still be had in the $50 - $75 range (for a single) if you keep your eyes peeled. In fact, a pair up right now for $100:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...m3fbe40beaa:g:uIgAAOSwlf5cfdqx&frcectupt=true
> 
> The Amperex 7316 is a rich man's 12AU7 and therefore requires an adapter, and is even more $$ than the Tele.  But it's another fave.



Gotcha. I'll keep my eyes open. My Yugofunken is one of my favs so far, I should probably get a proper Tele. And a native tube will be a bonus.
I was thinking the Amperex was a 6922 equivalent, my bad


----------



## ScubaMan2017

tafens said:


> Reading this thread has very much interested me in the Vali2, and I was wondering; how does the Vali2 compare to the Lyr3?


Upon first blush... The Lyr3, *by default* uses a larger tube (the 6SN7). For my Vali2, I have to use _*socket savers (in order to clear the chassis) and adapter to use 6SN7 tubes*_. I also consider the Lyr's *volume knob (potentiometer)* to be superior to my Vali (that's why I had to modify its knob). Both of these units use *just 1 tube* -- and that makes it a hell of a lot cheaper to play around with different tubes (mind you, I need to purchased balanced triodes; FAQ #6 [at Tube Depot, it's $2/tube extra]). The Lyr3's an *all-in-one* unit... I'm running 2 or 3 little brushed aluminum boxes (Vali + EITR + ModiMB + Cthulhu power supply) to get the similar effect. I like clutter  & copious shiny things. I've been lucky - I don't suffer detectable *electromagnetic interference (EMI)* from the various boxes, floor warts, cables, power bars, and wall warts. I'd assume the Lyr3 might be assembled to minimize EMI .  *Aesthetically*, I think the Lyr is more streamlined than my boxes. _I suspect at the end of the day, my set up sounds identical to the Lyr3. I'm restricted to headphones_ (no towers-of-2-channel-power for me). _I like my Vali because it allows me to safely play with different gizmos_.

@tafens , I assume you're just comparing their *amplification prowess*. I suspect like my Vali3 (and Magni3), the Lyr will drive my Sennheiser HD650 clones (from Massdrop) just fine. I'd recommend the Lyr if I wanted a one-stop-shop device. My 2 cents...


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> I was thinking the Amperex was a 6922 equivalent, my bad



The 7308 is the 6922 family member.

The 7316 was only made by Philips (and Amperex branded for the US market) while the 7308 had several manufacturers, both European and American. The European versions are especially good sounding (and would also be native), but prices for the good ones has entered _stupid_ territory.  7316's are still just insane.


----------



## tafens

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I assume you're just comparing their *amplification prowess*. I suspect like my Vali3 (and Magni3), the Lyr will drive my Sennheiser HD650 clones (from Massdrop) just fine. I'd recommend the Lyr if I wanted a one-stop-shop device. My 2 cents...



That was mainly what I was after, yes 

I love the sound of the Lyr3+multibit, and I was thinking that if the Vali2 is anything like it (probably not exactly so of course, the Lyr3 has some engineering wizardry the Vali2 doesn’t), it would be a great set-up at work combined with the Modi multibit I also have.

Aside: I was very close to getting the Vali2 before, but then the Magni3 came and I went for the Magni3+ModiMB combo. After that, the Lyr3 appeared, in it’s very appealing all-in-one package.. and now that I found that tubes are my thing, I’m again looking at the Vali2 to maybe dethrone the Magni3 as a secondary setup


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> The 7308 is the 6922 family member.
> 
> The 7316 was only made by Philips (and Amperex branded for the US market) while the 7308 had several manufacturers, both European and American. The European versions are especially good sounding (and would also be native), but prices for the good ones has entered _stupid_ territory.  7316's are still just insane.



Ugh, so many numbers. I used to think the Chinese DAP makers were the worst with their alphabet-soup naming schemes. That was before I fell into this quagmire…


----------



## quimbo

bcowen said:


> For a perfect fit, make your own cables.  Not necessarily cheaper, but you can get the exact size you need.


for perspective here is how the schiit cables look https://www.head-fi.org/threads/magni-3-impressions.860812/page-96#post-14052343


----------



## ScubaMan2017

tafens said:


> ....{snip}........Aside: I was very close to getting the Vali2 before, but then the Magni3 came and I went for the Magni3+ModiMB combo. After that, the Lyr3 appeared, in it’s very appealing all-in-one package.. and now that I found that tubes are my thing, I’m again looking at the Vali2 to maybe dethrone the Magni3 as a secondary setup


Would you consider saving up & purchasing a Valhalla2? Large knob. Lots of tube-potential. The Vali's okay, but the Valhalla... ah, that's something else.


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Would you consider saving up & purchasing a Valhalla2? Large knob. Lots of tube-potential. The Vali's okay, but the Valhalla... ah, that's something else.



I can second that emotion. I still use my Vali 2 on the second system, as the tube buffer and HP amp, but the Valhalla 2 is everything I ever expected from a tube amplifier for my Dekoni earpads attached to the Massdrop 6XX Sennheisers. I have listened to a well-matched -- by date code, Tung-Sol 6SN7GT tubes. 

I had a third one, that I paired with the black plate Mouse Ears from 1951, and I am at 3 o'clock (max volume is 5 o'clock), lacking nothing in terms of musicality and clarity, the bass is solid and not a hint of hissing esses.


----------



## tafens

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Would you consider saving up & purchasing a Valhalla2? Large knob. Lots of tube-potential. The Vali's okay, but the Valhalla... ah, that's something else.



I have considered it, but my wallet did not agree with me. It’s not the cost of the amp itself as much as the implications of rolling *four* tubes (matched pairs no less) instead of just one.. 

Wait.. did you say.. large knob?


----------



## Robert Padgett

tafens said:


> I have considered it, but my wallet did not agree with me. It’s not the cost of the amp itself as much as the implications of rolling *four* tubes (matched pairs no less) instead of just one..
> 
> Wait.. did you say.. large knob?


Matched tubes may not be all that necessary. The stock 6N6 power tubes should have a good long life and don't really need to be 'rolled'. As for the driver tubes, I have used two different tubes--not at all "matched" and it sounded just fine. Is a matched pair of driver tubes preferred? Yes, I am sure they would be better, but I had some "odd" un-paired 6SN7 tubes, which I used together and in headphones, I couldn't tell the difference.


----------



## Jacobh

tafens said:


> I have considered it, but my wallet did not agree with me. It’s not the cost of the amp itself as much as the implications of rolling *four* tubes (matched pairs no less) instead of just one..
> 
> Wait.. did you say.. large knob?



For the Valhalla you won't notice much (if any difference) from rolling the power tubes.  You are really just looking at the two input tubes and those can be changed independently of the power tubes.


----------



## BubbaJay

I quite surprised just how much I like my LCD-2C with the Vali.  I used a couple Hifiman planars I had on a hybrid amp and wasn't much of a fan but then again it was some cheaper amp so the fact its a Vali probably is why it sounds so good.  I'm really looking forward to hearing how it sounds with the tubes I have coming in a day or 2.


----------



## Robert Padgett

BubbaJay said:


> I quite surprised just how much I like my LCD-2C with the Vali.  I used a couple Hifiman planars I had on a hybrid amp and wasn't much of a fan but then again it was some cheaper amp so the fact its a Vali probably is why it sounds so good.  I'm really looking forward to hearing how it sounds with the tubes I have coming in a day or 2.


For a $149 entry-level price-point, the Vali 2 hits way above its weight. And it is great as a tube buffer for the speaker system.


----------



## bcowen

BubbaJay said:


> I'm really looking forward to hearing how it sounds with the tubes I have coming in a day or 2.



Just remember that whatever tubes you have or whichever tubes you're getting that there are even better ones out there.

Sincerely,
The Devil


----------



## MaskedRacerX

Robert Padgett said:


> For a $149 entry-level price-point, the Vali 2 hits way above its weight. And it is great as a tube buffer for the speaker system.



I'm really digging on mine   I scored mine from their B-stock,  full warranty (just no 15 day trial), potentially minor aesthetic issues but was basically new looking (plus the brushed aluminum could probably be easily corrected).  It was $50 off, for $99, it's astoundingly fantastic bang-for-the-buck.  I also picked up my Modi 3 from B-stock, also fantastic, and I'm in for just ~$216 delivered for the two. For under $300 I'll wind up with an extra tube or two, a socket saver, some misc connections.

Hard to beat.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

MaskedRacerX said:


> I'm really digging on mine   I scored mine from their B-stock,  full warranty (just no 15 day trial), potentially minor aesthetic issues but was basically new looking (plus the brushed aluminum could probably be easily corrected).  It was $50 off, for $99, it's astoundingly fantastic bang-for-the-buck.  I also picked up my Modi 3 from B-stock, also fantastic, and I'm in for just ~$216 delivered for the two. For under $300 I'll wind up with an extra tube or two, a socket saver, some misc connections.
> 
> Hard to beat.


@MaskedRacerX ... _I suspect you're going to be very satisfied with the Modi3/Vali2 tag-team with sockets savers & adapters_.


----------



## BubbaJay

Robert Padgett said:


> For a $149 entry-level price-point, the Vali 2 hits way above its weight. And it is great as a tube buffer for the speaker system.



I haven't tried it with speakers but I have a couple of good size desktop speakers I can try it with.


bcowen said:


> Just remember that whatever tubes you have or whichever tubes you're getting that there are even better ones out there.
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Devil



Very true, but I got one good one and one on the less expensive side.  I think the RCA clear top that was $50 should be a pretty good tube to start rolling with.


----------



## bcowen

BubbaJay said:


> Very true, but I got one good one and one on the less expensive side.  I think the RCA clear top that was $50 should be a pretty good tube to start rolling with.



I was just messin' with you. You can only listen to one tube at a time. I have no idea what's up with these other guys that have like a truckload of tubes....


----------



## Dawnrazor

It never worked that well for me.  I got a balanced solution that sounded better with the M1060s

It does have alot of power


----------



## Robert Padgett

bcowen said:


> I was just messin' with you. You can only listen to one tube at a time. I have no idea what's up with these other guys that have like a truckload of tubes....


Or two tubes at a time with a dual adapter


----------



## BubbaJay

bcowen said:


> I was just messin' with you. You can only listen to one tube at a time. I have no idea what's up with these other guys that have like a truckload of tubes....



I'm with you on that.  I don't see the point in buying a whole bunch of tubes to use, especially ones that cost as much or more than the amp it's self.


----------



## bcowen

Robert Padgett said:


> Or two tubes at a time with a dual adapter



That's only if you're listening through both ears at the same time. Strange, but possible I guess.


----------



## Old Deaf Donkey (Apr 3, 2019)

bcowen said:


> You can only listen to one tube at a time. I have no idea what's up with these other guys that have like a truckload of tubes....


Yes, but we keep buying tubes expecting that every next one is better than the previous one.  And then, it often is, but not in everything. So, one goes back to the previously bought tubes to check. I now have about 7 tubes I like, and twice that amount I am not sure about... And yes, those damn dual adapters for two single triods


----------



## bcowen

Old Deaf Donkey said:


> Yes, but we keep buying tubes expecting that every next one is better than the previous one.  And then, it often is, but not in everything. So, one goes back to the previously bought tubes to check. I now have about 7 tubes I like, and twice that amount I am not sure about... And yes, those damn dual adapters for two single triods



Oh man, how right you are. When I first stumbled into HeadFi a little over a year ago I thought a 6922 went in a socket for a 6922.  Add a few kinsmen like a 6DJ8 or 7308, but that was it. Suddenly this adapter thing raised its ugly head.  Forget 50 different 6922's to try...now there's 50,000 different tubes to try. And that's just for a single tube adapter.


----------



## BubbaJay

I got the new tubes I ordered earlier today and have been using the RCA clear top and I have to say I makes a difference.  It's not a night and day difference but enough that it matters.  The highs on my Nightowl have more snap to them and the mids sound meatier and more full.  The bass seems tighter and less bloated.  I think one of the biggest changes was to the soundstage as it feels more open and the separation sounds clearer to me as well.

None are huge changes but enough that you notice and it's all positive.  I'm glad I went ahead and spent the money on a good tube because for me it was worth it.  I haven't tried the Electro-Harmonix 6922 I got but I will eventually, I enjoying the RCA to much to remove it just yet.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

BubbaJay said:


> I got the new tubes I ordered earlier today and have been using the RCA clear top and I have to say I makes a difference.  It's not a night and day difference but enough that it matters.  The highs on my Nightowl have more snap to them and the mids sound meatier and more full.  The bass seems tighter and less bloated.  I think one of the biggest changes was to the soundstage as it feels more open and the separation sounds clearer to me as well.
> 
> None are huge changes but enough that you notice and it's all positive.  I'm glad I went ahead and spent the money on a good tube because for me it was worth it.  I haven't tried the Electro-Harmonix 6922 I got but I will eventually, I enjoying the RCA to much to remove it just yet.


_...I want to pick up some Soviet-era glass... and wonder if some cosmonaut pulled it out of an aging ICBM that was originally targeted at my CN Tower.  Ah, to be a neurotic teenager in the 1980s._


----------



## BubbaJay

I think I saw some on the TubeDepot for about $1000 and those were the cheap ones.

Seriously though I'm very pleased with the clear top I got and it sounds great.  I'm listening to my HD700 right now which is something I never do anymore but with the Vali they sound better than ever.  I just wish I still had my HD600 so I'm very close to buying a HD6XX to get back that wonderful sound again.


----------



## bkboy12 (Apr 4, 2019)

Keno18 said:


> Now that you have the adapters, you might want to look at the Tung-Sol 6sn7gt "mouse ears". I've recommended them several times before and have had nothing but complementary results.



Well, I took you up on your suggestion and I went ahead and purchased this from Etsy tonight: https://www.etsy.com/listing/666553456/tung-sol-6sn7gt-mouse-ear-vacuum-tube

Those are the ones you’re talking about right?


----------



## Keno18

bkboy12 said:


> Well, I took you up on your suggestion and I went ahead and purchased this from Etsy tonight: https://www.etsy.com/listing/666553456/tung-sol-6sn7gt-mouse-ear-vacuum-tube
> 
> Those are the ones you’re talking about right?


Oh yeah, perfect. Etsy? Wow, gotta add them to the list.


----------



## bcowen

Keno18 said:


> Oh yeah, perfect. Etsy? Wow, gotta add them to the list.



I just looked on Etsy for "tube" and this is all I got.

Looks like I need to spend some time there too.


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _...I want to pick up some Soviet-era glass... and wonder if some cosmonaut pulled it out of an aging ICBM that was originally targeted at my CN Tower.  Ah, to be a neurotic teenager in the 1980s._



My only suggestion about Soviet-era tubes like the early 1950s Foton 6H8C with ribbed plates--they WILL take you on a 100-hour roller-coaster ride as they break-in. One must assume the Soviet missile technicians planned for these tubes to be making a one-way trip, and didn't value their future value to Audiophiliacs. I complained my way through over 10 days of going from super sweet, gritty and edgy, and then back to sweetness. Finally, after 96 hours, they stayed sweet, as predicted. Now that you have discovered the sonic differences between the miniature 6922 size tubes and the larger 6SN7 types, there are a ton of inexpensive choices available. One helpful tip--- every tube does not NEED to be "tests NOS" to sound good. Used tubes have life left in them even after one number dips below the line of "NOS". So even if they are not destined for years of service, the cheaper tubes can be fun, with little investment. So my '3 for $10' versus $100 for one-tube means I don't concern myself in buying a tube which will outlive ad outperform me.


----------



## bcowen

Robert Padgett said:


> a tube which will outlive ad outperform me.



Which means it doesn't have to last very long?  

(from one old guy to another)


----------



## Robert Padgett

bcowen said:


> Which means it doesn't have to last very long?
> 
> (from one old guy to another)



Well, I have yet to burn-out a tube, even on days when my old back wants to test me...Maybe I am naive, but old tubes which have long-since been "broken-in" seem to sound better than the trials of breaking-in a NIB or 'tests NOS tube'. Even though I have been involved in Tubes only 4 months, I have managed to acquire more tubes that I can reasonably assume that I have time to listen to them all...yet I bought three more for $10.  Being an "Audiophile On the Cheap" does not insure I will not "desire and aquire" even more cheap tubes. Still cheaper than a high-maintainance romance, and a whole lot better to listen to.


----------



## bcowen

BubbaJay said:


> I got the new tubes I ordered earlier today and have been using the RCA clear top and I have to say I makes a difference.  It's not a night and day difference but enough that it matters.  The highs on my Nightowl have more snap to them and the mids sound meatier and more full.  The bass seems tighter and less bloated.  I think one of the biggest changes was to the soundstage as it feels more open and the separation sounds clearer to me as well.
> 
> None are huge changes but enough that you notice and it's all positive.  I'm glad I went ahead and spent the money on a good tube because for me it was worth it.  I haven't tried the Electro-Harmonix 6922 I got but I will eventually, I enjoying the RCA to much to remove it just yet.



I have clear top versions of the RCA's in 12AU7, 6CG7, and 7025 types, and while IMO I wouldn't classify any of them as 'holy grail' kinda tubes they are all great sounding, and especially so for the money. And all are (ahem) _clearly_ better than the chrome dome versions of the same general vintage.


----------



## bcowen

Robert Padgett said:


> Well, I have yet to burn-out a tube, even on days when my old back wants to test me...Maybe I am naive, but old tubes which have long-since been "broken-in" seem to sound better than the trials of breaking-in a NIB or 'tests NOS tube'. Even though I have been involved in Tubes only 4 months, I have managed to acquire more tubes that I can reasonably assume that I have time to listen to them all...yet I bought three more for $10.  Being an "Audiophile On the Cheap" does not insure I will not "desire and aquire" even more cheap tubes. Still cheaper than a high-maintainance romance, and a whole lot better to listen to.



Oh come on Robert. Admit it. You're addicted. There is no cure.  6 months from now you'll be wondering why you have 500 tubes laying around.  

If at some point the clutter becomes impossible to deal with let me know and I'll come over and haul some away for you.  That's what friends do for each other.


----------



## Robert Padgett

bcowen said:


> Oh come on Robert. Admit it. You're addicted. There is no cure.  6 months from now you'll be wondering why you have 500 tubes laying around.
> 
> If at some point the clutter becomes impossible to deal with let me know and I'll come over and haul some away for you.  That's what friends do for each other.




I am lucky in that regard. Dire poverty restricts my insanity, unlike any medication. When I became the "Audiophile on the Cheap" it wasn't following a popular trend in the industry, or mimicking Steve Guttenberg's recommendation of an "Audiophile System for $185, with a Nobsound amp and Dayton audio speakers", it was because I have so little money, that finding Schiit-quality for the price was a Blessing. 

When I spring for a replacement foam for an old Zero Halliburton stainless steel case, just to house my tube collection--then "I'll be happy to see those nice men, in their nice white coats, who are coming to take me away, ha ha, he he, to the funny farm"


----------



## bcowen

Robert Padgett said:


> When I spring for a replacement foam for an old Zero Halliburton stainless steel case, just to house my tube collection...



If all your tubes will fit in a foam-lined stainless steel case....you don't have enough tubes.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> If all your tubes will fit in a foam-lined stainless steel case....you don't have enough tubes.



Unless its one of those man-sized steel cases Cheney uses?


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Unless its one of those man-sized steel cases Cheney uses?



LOL!

Or like this, for which I'd make an exception.


----------



## Old Deaf Donkey

bcowen said:


> I just looked on Etsy for "tube" and this is all I got.
> 
> Looks like I need to spend some time there too.


Got her phone no?


----------



## bcowen

Old Deaf Donkey said:


> Got her phone no?



The number on the sale page was BR549.  I called it and got some hick-sounding guy by the name of Roy Clark Jr. telling me I had the wrong number. Must have typo'd the number in the ad, or maybe I dialed it wrong...


----------



## Old Deaf Donkey

bcowen said:


> The number on the sale page was BR549.  I called it and got some hick-sounding guy by the name of Roy Clark Jr. telling me I had the wrong number. Must have typo'd the number in the ad, or maybe I dialed it wrong...


Schiit. I liked the twin round getters rather much. Hoped to get them flashed.


----------



## bkboy12

Keno18 said:


> Oh yeah, perfect. Etsy? Wow, gotta add them to the list.



Sorry if I've added to your addiction, lol. Apparently, the tube is from the 1960s, and it has black plates? No idea what any of that means, but it sounds pretty cool.


----------



## bkboy12

bcowen said:


> I just looked on Etsy for "tube" and this is all I got.
> 
> Looks like I need to spend some time there too.



LOL! Too funny.


----------



## Keno18

bkboy12 said:


> Sorry if I've added to your addiction, lol. Apparently, the tube is from the 1960s, and it has black plates? No idea what any of that means, but it sounds pretty cool.


The picture I saw was of the mouse ears, they were made only until the early 50s. Are you referring to a different tube?


----------



## bkboy12 (Apr 4, 2019)

Nah. The guy who sold it to me on Etsy he said he thinks it's from the early '60s, but there are no dates or codes on it that he can decipher. I don't think he knows.


----------



## Keno18 (Apr 4, 2019)

bkboy12 said:


> Nah. The guy who sold it to me on Etsy he said he thinks it's from the early '60s, but there are no dates or codes on it that he can decipher. I don't think he knows.


When you get it we can decipher the date.

Edit: Just realized, if it has black plates, it may be from the late 40s. I'd be interested to hear how it sounds.


----------



## bkboy12

Keno18 said:


> When you get it we can decipher the date.



Sounds like a plan. Thanks, man!


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Robert Padgett said:


> My only suggestion about Soviet-era tubes like the early 1950s Foton 6H8C with ribbed plates--they WILL take you on a 100-hour roller-coaster ride as they break-in. One must assume the Soviet missile technicians planned for these tubes to be making a one-way trip, and didn't value their future value to Audiophiliacs. I complained my way through over 10 days of going from super sweet, gritty and edgy, and then back to sweetness. Finally, after 96 hours, they stayed sweet, as predicted. Now that you have discovered the sonic differences between the miniature 6922 size tubes and the larger 6SN7 types, there are a ton of inexpensive choices available. One helpful tip--- every tube does not NEED to be "tests NOS" to sound good. Used tubes have life left in them even after one number dips below the line of "NOS". So even if they are not destined for years of service, the cheaper tubes can be fun, with little investment. So my '3 for $10' versus $100 for one-tube means I don't concern myself in buying a tube which will outlive ad outperform me.





bcowen said:


> Which means it doesn't have to last very long?
> 
> (from one old guy to another)





Robert Padgett said:


> Well, I have yet to burn-out a tube, even on days when my old back wants to test me...Maybe I am naive, but old tubes which have long-since been "broken-in" seem to sound better than the trials of breaking-in a NIB or 'tests NOS tube'. Even though I have been involved in Tubes only 4 months, I have managed to acquire more tubes that I can reasonably assume that I have time to listen to them all...yet I bought three more for $10.  Being an "Audiophile On the Cheap" does not insure I will not "desire and aquire" even more cheap tubes. Still cheaper than a high-maintainance romance, and a whole lot better to listen to.



(cntrl-C) + (cntrl-V) + (Google Keep).


----------



## BubbaJay

After using the new tubes I got the RCA clear top is the best, as it should be.  I thought the Electro-Harmonix was better at first but that was because it has a more up front sound but the clear top is much cleaner sounding.  The E-H has more bass presence but and more forward sounding mids but I like the overall sound of the clear top more.  I already want to try more tubes but I'm going to wait tell I can get a few at once.


----------



## bcowen

BubbaJay said:


> ...but I'm going to wait tell I can get a few at once.



A few?


----------



## Delirious Lab

Got my B-stock Vali ($99!!!) yesterday.  Still waiting to hear it though... bad tube.

Great customer service from Schiit who shipped a replacement tube within an hour or two.

Gotta wait until Monday now.


----------



## bcowen

Delirious Lab said:


> Got my B-stock Vali ($99!!!) yesterday.  Still waiting to hear it though... bad tube.
> 
> Great customer service from Schiit who shipped a replacement tube within an hour or two.
> 
> Gotta wait until Monday now.



You mean you don't have _any_ other tubes?  Oh my.  Hey guys......fresh meat for the grinder.  

Seriously, welcome to the club. Let us know how things go once you get the new tube in. Be aware that both the amp and the tube need some break-in time before they'll sound their best, so if you're pleased at first listen, know that it'll get even better after you play it for 25-30 hours.


----------



## Old Deaf Donkey

bcowen said:


> You mean you don't have _any_ other tubes?  Oh my.  Hey guys......fresh meat for the grinder.



 Too late in Europe for a longer post. Wait until tomorrow. I'll post the list of my tubes for Vali 2.


----------



## bcowen

Old Deaf Donkey said:


> Too late in Europe for a longer post. Wait until tomorrow. I'll post the list of my tubes for Vali 2.



And so it begins.  @Delirious Lab , my condolences to your wallet.


----------



## Robert Padgett (Apr 12, 2019)

bcowen said:


> And so it begins.  @Delirious Lab , my condolences to your wallet.


As the Affordable Audiophile, let me clue you in.
Cheap tubes sound great.
For a Vali 2, spend no more on tubes as you paid for the amp.
I suggest you try 6SN7 tubes with an adapter and socket-saver, and you can score great deals like '3 for $10' with free shipping. They aren't matched and may test below standard, but that gives you fun just rolling those three tubes. You can only play one at a time, anyhow, so being Matched or NOS only means they cost more. It is surprising what "Used Tests Good" really sounds like. They may not last long, but whatever --buy three more.

Welcome, and your wallet doesn't need to worry for you to enjoy the music.
.


----------



## Old Deaf Donkey (Apr 19, 2019)

Delirious Lab said:


> Got my B-stock Vali ($99!!!) yesterday.  Still waiting to hear it though... bad tube.
> 
> Great customer service from Schiit who shipped a replacement tube within an hour or two.
> 
> Gotta wait until Monday now.


Some ideas for tubes for Vali 2:
1 6922 1239 ? Vali 2 stock tube
2 6922 6N23P Reflektor fact., Saratov x2
3 6922 6922 Electro Harmonix modern
4 6922 EI Yugoslavia ECC88 Elektronska Industrija, Niš, Yugoslavia
5 5670 396A Western Electric Black plates, square getter 1961
6 5670 5670W/2C5V6N3 GE
7 5670 6N3P Oktyabr fact, Vinnitsa 1968
8 5670 JRC 5670 RCA 1964
9 6SN7 6SN7GT SOVTEK
10 6SN7 6SN7GT Motorola by Tung-Sol "Mouse ears"
11 6SN7 STROMBERG by Tung-Sol "Mouse ears"
12 6SN7 6Н8С МЭЛЗ Moscow metal base pair 1950
13 6SN7 6Н8С Soyuz fact. Novosibirsk pair 1950
14 6C8G CRC-6C8-G JAN RCA
15 PCC88 Philips,Herleen factory  1959
16 PCC88 EI Yugoslavia PCC88 Elektronska Industrija, Niš, Yugoslavia x2 1986
17 12AU7 ECC82  Mullard Blackburn factory Aug-72
18 6J5 Philco 6J5G Philco
19 6J5 Super Silverstone 6J5G Super Silverstone
20 6J5 RCA 6J5GT RCA Matched pair
21 6J5 6С2С Soyuz fact. Novosibirsk Matched pair 1979
22 6J5 6С2С Soyuz fact. Novosibirsk Matched pair 1958
23 6J5 6С2С Soyuz fact. Novosibirsk Matched pair, metal base 1954
24 6J5 6С2С Soyuz fact. Novosibirsk Matched pair 1962
25 6J5 6J5GT Zaerix  AEG Telefunken Ulm Donau fact., Matched pair 1973

That's what I have bought in the first 4 months to try. As Mr. Padgett suggested, only bought cheap tubes, hence spent only $700  EDIT: that includes adapters for different types


----------



## bcowen

Old Deaf Donkey said:


> Some ideas for tubes for Vali 2:
> 1 6922 1239 ? Vali 2 stock tube
> 2 6922 6N23P Reflektor fact., Saratov x2
> 3 6922 6922 Electro Harmonix modern
> ...



But wait!  @Robert Padgett said to spend no more than the cost of the amp.  Friggin' cheapskate. What fun is that? 

But in full disclosure, I am required to note that a $5 tube has spent more time in my Lyr 3 than all other tubes....combined.


----------



## Robert Padgett

bcowen said:


> But wait!  @Robert Padgett said to spend no more than the cost of the amp.  Friggin' cheapskate. What fun is that?
> 
> But in full disclosure, I am required to note that a $5 tube has spent more time in my Lyr 3 than all other tubes....combined.



@bcowen until either my hearing accuity improves or I find some buried treasure, being "affordable" means that "cheapskate" tubes sound really good to my impoverished ears, and the fun of finding two tubes which play together well on the Valhalla 2 is the same as discovering a stash of really rare, expensive tubes, that take weeks to arrive and spend a vacation in US Customs, as the geniuses determine if Soviet Era tubes are actually secretly monitoring every word spoken when powered up, and are Microphonic back to Moscow...


----------



## Old Deaf Donkey

Robert Padgett said:


> @bcowen until either my hearing accuity improves or I find some buried treasure, being "affordable" means that "cheapskate" tubes sound really good to my impoverished ears, and the fun of finding two tubes which play together well on the Valhalla 2 is the same as discovering a stash of really rare, expensive tubes, that take weeks to arrive and spend a vacation in US Customs, as the geniuses determine if Soviet Era tubes are actually secretly monitoring every word spoken when powered up, and are Microphonic back to Moscow...



hereby Philco and SuperSilverstone 6J5, bought separately, SS cost me $3, Philco a little more - but both measured "bad". Just started listening today, but they balance well, resolve beautifully, spatious, maybe a little less clear, than Soyuz. Need a bit of time to decide.


----------



## Robert Padgett (Apr 14, 2019)

Old Deaf Donkey said:


> hereby Philco and SuperSilverstone 6J5, bought separately, SS cost me $3, Philco a little more - but both measured "bad". Just started listening today, but they balance well, resolve beautifully, spatious, maybe a little less clear, than Soyuz. Need a bit of time to decide.



Those are pretty I might want to listen to my STs again--  I also have a pair--just like yours, one Silvertone by Sears and one Philco, but my source said they were both RCA valves...

Dual on Vali is best use of that amplifier, IMHO, and YMMV. and I paid $20 for the pair from vendor 
Chukv's Westwood Electronics  (Chukv on eBay) I like them, but again the "Naughty Girls" (Sylvania Blk plate, three holes parital chrome flashing) are availible as NOS-testing and matched pairs from our friends at Vivatubes.com.

Actually, this rabbit hole is not that deep--you can hardly go wrong, and rolling on the Vali 2 is the fun part. Microphonic "used" tubes are rarely the problem, and at least it is quite obvious when you power them up, and tap the metal chassis--they ring like "Tubular Bells"


----------



## ScubaMan2017

bcowen said:


> You mean you don't have _any_ other tubes?  Oh my.  Hey guys......fresh meat for the grinder.
> 
> Seriously, welcome to the club. Let us know how things go once you get the new tube in. Be aware that both the amp and the tube need some break-in time before they'll sound their best, so if you're pleased at first listen, know that it'll get even better after you play it for 25-30 hours.


...and the tiny, slick knobs. @Delirious Lab ... if you have Wreck-It-Ralph sized paws (like me), you'll appreciate swapping them out and adding ones with a grip. Ooooh oooh oooh. And adapters... and socket-savers... and and and.... Yeah.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Old Deaf Donkey said:


> Some ideas for tubes for Vali 2:
> 1 6922 1239 ? Vali 2 stock tube
> 2 6922 6N23P Reflektor fact., Saratov x2
> 3 6922 6922 Electro Harmonix modern
> ...


(cntrl-C) + (cntrl-V) to my Google Keep account + referenced to @Old Deaf Donkey . Thanks, eh.


----------



## Keno18

Spent the past few days evaluating a major change up in the audio chain.  I changed from PCM to DSD128. That is, all my PCM files are now up sampled to DSD128 on the fly using foobar and the latest SACD input and DSD Processor components (freeware). I had tried it before but wasn't impressed. This new version fixes all the problems. The imaging is rock solid (an over used word would be "holographic") and the sound stage is very wide and deep. Detail retrieval is excellent. Overall fidelity is just where I like it. It seems the DSD stream is liked by the sigma-delta dac I use. I'd really be interested in a comparison with a multi-bit dac.


----------



## Delirious Lab

Didn't want to wait for the replacement from Schiit, so I found a guy with an old tube collection who sells them from his apartment here in Montreal.

I bought a tube from him for $10, a 6BZ7 with a "CANADA" marking on it.  No other information.

First impressions (with Modi 3 and HD600): Very clean and neutral.  The soundstage is wide, I could drive a bus between the two guitars in Neil Young's _Down by the River._

Oddly enough, I'm listening to Florence Foster Jenkins right now and it feels as things are getting more tubey - in a good way.  Believe it or not, 1940's recordings of a shrieking rich lady who thought she could be a soprano are actually enjoyable to listen to on this thing! 

The tube has had 2 hours of life and it feels like the highs are just starting to smooth over.  I already know there will be no ear fatigue with this rig.

I don't plan to tube roll much (for now), but like the suggestion of a 6SN7 adapter, I have a couple of Saga tubes I could try.


----------



## Old Deaf Donkey

Delirious Lab said:


> I bought a tube from him for $10, a 6BZ7 with a "CANADA" marking on it.  No other information.



Well, that is usually the Schiit stock tube that comes with purchase of Vali 2....


----------



## Nazo

So I have a bit of a crazy question, but a bit of a paranoia point for me:  what happens if you run the Vali 2 without a tube?  It wouldn't damage it or anything would it?  It's a bit of a paranoia point for me because the vintage tube I ordered had a crack in the base.  Upon closer examination I could tell the glass wasn't damaged (the base really only matters for keying it to only go in one way -- the 6SN7 socket type is symmetrical except for the part of the base that sticks down) but it made me wonder what would happen if a tube completely blew out (not just went bad) due to something such as loss of vacuum such that it was effectively no longer even there.  But also, realistically speaking, as one is rolling tubes it is theoretically possible someone careless could accidentally turn it on without a tube or pull one out while it was on (I don't think I will, but once I've had the thought it still makes me paranoid...  Which is probably why I never will, but I sure would like to hear that it wouldn't blow out the entire amp.  I can stand losing a tube, but not the whole amp.)


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Nazo said:


> So I have a bit of a crazy question, but a bit of a paranoia point for me:  what happens if you run the Vali 2 without a tube?  It wouldn't damage it or anything would it?  It's a bit of a paranoia point for me because the vintage tube I ordered had a crack in the base.  Upon closer examination I could tell the glass wasn't damaged (the base really only matters for keying it to only go in one way -- the 6SN7 socket type is symmetrical except for the part of the base that sticks down) but it made me wonder what would happen if a tube completely blew out (not just went bad) due to something such as loss of vacuum such that it was effectively no longer even there.  But also, realistically speaking, as one is rolling tubes it is theoretically possible someone careless could accidentally turn it on without a tube or pull one out while it was on (I don't think I will, but once I've had the thought it still makes me paranoid...  Which is probably why I never will, but I sure would like to hear that it wouldn't blow out the entire amp.  I can stand losing a tube, but not the whole amp.)


Interesting question. While my gut tells me nothing would happen (other than no audio), if it were me, I'd drop a line to info@schiit.com . My 2 cents....


----------



## Nazo

Well that makes sense, lol.  I'll do that if no one speaks up from personal experience on the matter.

I honestly don't think it would ever happen like that, but it's enough to make me worry.


----------



## Jacobh

Nazo said:


> So I have a bit of a crazy question, but a bit of a paranoia point for me:  what happens if you run the Vali 2 without a tube?  It wouldn't damage it or anything would it?  It's a bit of a paranoia point for me because the vintage tube I ordered had a crack in the base.  Upon closer examination I could tell the glass wasn't damaged (the base really only matters for keying it to only go in one way -- the 6SN7 socket type is symmetrical except for the part of the base that sticks down) but it made me wonder what would happen if a tube completely blew out (not just went bad) due to something such as loss of vacuum such that it was effectively no longer even there.  But also, realistically speaking, as one is rolling tubes it is theoretically possible someone careless could accidentally turn it on without a tube or pull one out while it was on (I don't think I will, but once I've had the thought it still makes me paranoid...  Which is probably why I never will, but I sure would like to hear that it wouldn't blow out the entire amp.  I can stand losing a tube, but not the whole amp.)



I've asked this to Schiit support about removing a tube while the amp was one.  They told me "Running it for any length of time without tubes won’t hurt it."  It makes sense since a tube could easily burn out while the amplifier is running.


----------



## bcowen

Nazo said:


> So I have a bit of a crazy question, but a bit of a paranoia point for me:  what happens if you run the Vali 2 without a tube?  It wouldn't damage it or anything would it?  It's a bit of a paranoia point for me because the vintage tube I ordered had a crack in the base.  Upon closer examination I could tell the glass wasn't damaged (the base really only matters for keying it to only go in one way -- the 6SN7 socket type is symmetrical except for the part of the base that sticks down) but it made me wonder what would happen if a tube completely blew out (not just went bad) due to something such as loss of vacuum such that it was effectively no longer even there.  But also, realistically speaking, as one is rolling tubes it is theoretically possible someone careless could accidentally turn it on without a tube or pull one out while it was on (I don't think I will, but once I've had the thought it still makes me paranoid...  Which is probably why I never will, but I sure would like to hear that it wouldn't blow out the entire amp.  I can stand losing a tube, but not the whole amp.)



What happens if you stick your finger in a live wall outlet? I mean you probably never will, but it's theoretically possible so probably something else to be paranoid about.


----------



## Keno18

bcowen said:


> What happens if you stick your finger in a live wall outlet? I mean you probably never will, but it's theoretically possible so probably something else to be paranoid about.


That's a good question, wait, I'll be right back... (Sirens blaring, doors being broken down.)


----------



## Nazo (Apr 15, 2019)

bcowen said:


> What happens if you stick your finger in a live wall outlet? I mean you probably never will, but it's theoretically possible so probably something else to be paranoid about.


You do understand it was a serious question about something with potential for serious ramifications?  I don't really get why you're turning it into an insult.


Jacobh said:


> I've asked this to Schiit support about removing a tube while the amp was one.  They told me "Running it for any length of time without tubes won’t hurt it."  It makes sense since a tube could easily burn out while the amplifier is running.


Ah, thanks for the info.  Honestly I would say "burn out" isn't necessarily the same thing as "not being present at all."  Usually it's the heaters that ultimately die out which wouldn't be such a big deal.  Having entire pathways completely nonexistent is a different story IMO.  That's why I was concerned about if the vacuum was lost though.  More than just the heaters could blow out if there was no vacuum.  But anyway, if they confirm it won't be harmed by having no tube present that answers the question nicely.


----------



## Jacobh (Apr 15, 2019)

Nazo said:


> Ah, thanks for the info.  Honestly I would say "burn out" isn't necessarily the same thing as "not being present at all."  Usually it's the heaters that ultimately die out which wouldn't be such a big deal.  Having entire pathways completely nonexistent is a different story IMO.  That's why I was concerned about if the vacuum was lost though.  More than just the heaters could blow out if there was no vacuum.  But anyway, if they confirm it won't be harmed by having no tube present that answers the question nicely.



Fair enough, but it’s easy enough to turn it on with no tube in it. Generally an open circuit won’t cause anything bad to happen, it just won’t work (electricity stops flowing). 

Either way, Schiit said it was fine.


----------



## Delirious Lab

So I received the replacement tube from Schiit yesterday and couldn't be happier.

Not that I'm any kind of tube connoisseur, but this one is (to my ears) radically different from the one I got for a song from some apartment this weekend.  While that one was very neutral, detailed and revealing, the Schiit tube on the other hand (again, to my ears) is darker right out of the box, and works wonders with thin-sounding recordings. For instance, now playing Idil Biret's piano rendering of the Symphonie fantastique and wow, it's never been this meaty.

So for a mere $10 I may already have reached my tube endgame.  I feel like I can swap anytime between a warm sound and a super detailed one at will.

Y'all agree this is endgame, right?  No more spending for me?  No clicking the Buy button on that 6SN7 adapter, huh?

Right?... Guys?

Bueller?


----------



## Robert Padgett

Delirious Lab said:


> So I received the replacement tube from Schiit yesterday and couldn't be happier.
> 
> Not that I'm any kind of tube connoisseur, but this one is (to my ears) radically different from the one I got for a song from some apartment this weekend.  While that one was very neutral, detailed and revealing, the Schiit tube on the other hand (again, to my ears) is darker right out of the box, and works wonders with thin-sounding recordings. For instance, now playing Idil Biret's piano rendering of the Symphonie fantastique and wow, it's never been this meaty.
> 
> ...


Denial....not the big River in Egypt.
I suppose the stock tube from Schiit could be the end game. If you look around, you can find those tubes even cheaper than $10. If you are happy, that is all that matters, enjoy the music.

Buying a 6SN7 adapter and a socket-saver opens up greater choices.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Nazo said:


> You do understand it was a serious question about something with potential for serious ramifications?  I don't really get why you're turning it into an insult.



Personally, I think you are taking your question far too seriously, and the reply was meant as a light retort. 
Welcome to the social media and an audio forum. 

Thicker skin, or a leather jacket will prevent road rash, if you have to lay your motorcycle down. 

And may I suggest, stop using the Vali 2 while in the bathtub, or when you are knee deep in water.


----------



## Delirious Lab

Dipping a Vali in the bathtub... wasn't that one of the ways Bill Murray killed himself in _Groundhog Day_?


----------



## Robert Padgett

Delirious Lab said:


> Dipping a Vali in the bathtub... wasn't that one of the ways Bill Murray killed himself in _Groundhog Day_?



I don't remember. Are you making light of the serious ramifications of sticking your tongue into the electrical outlet? 

Like Spontaneous Combustion kills people every year, including one drummer for the band Spinal Tap-- I saw in the Documentary film, "This is Spinal Tap". 

Add to the list, plugging your headphones into a electrical outlet-- just because there is an adapter doesn't mean it will work, so don't switch out the 3.5 mm plug with a conventional electrical plug, there is no free music in your houldhold wiring!


----------



## Delirious Lab

Aaand no more B-stock Valis and Modi 3's at Schiit.com.  So glad I pulled the trigger last week!


----------



## senorx12562

Delirious Lab said:


> So I received the replacement tube from Schiit yesterday and couldn't be happier.
> 
> Not that I'm any kind of tube connoisseur, but this one is (to my ears) radically different from the one I got for a song from some apartment this weekend.  While that one was very neutral, detailed and revealing, the Schiit tube on the other hand (again, to my ears) is darker right out of the box, and works wonders with thin-sounding recordings. For instance, now playing Idil Biret's piano rendering of the Symphonie fantastique and wow, it's never been this meaty.
> 
> ...



My previous Vali2 (1.0) came with that 6bz7 Canada tube, while the new version (1.1) I just got a couple of weeks ago as b-stock came with the tube marked "1239" which my interwebz search found no info on. Notwithstanding the lack of info, the combination sounds much smoother and far less strident on top than the older combination. Can't say for sure how much of that is due to the different tube vs. board revisions as I no longer have the 6bz7 to compare, but I find it preferable as a package ( at $99, vs. the $169 or $179 I originally paid) to the first version. Of course, I could just be full of schiit. Hard to beat for a c-note though, imo.


----------



## Delirious Lab (Apr 16, 2019)

Sounds like my experience so far, senorx.






Left: Schiit stock tube, a very faint "1239" is the only marking.  For warmth and darkness.
Right: 6BZ7 "Canada" tube.  For air and unforgiving detail.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Keno18 said:


> That's a good question, wait, I'll be right back... (Sirens blaring, doors being broken down.)


...no, no, @Keno18 ... the alarms and such only happen when one changes the formatting on a Microsoft Word document. _*Yeesh*_.


----------



## Eighty8

I purchased a used Vali 2 (1.0) from another user here maybe 6 months ago. I didn't even realize that there were two versions. I also have a Magni 3 beneath it for when I want that full SS sound. I didn't really like the mismatched knobs, so I reached out to Schiit asking about the revised model and possibly getting a new knob. They got right back to me with the shipped price of $3.57. I was completely taken back by the great customer service. They also threw in the revised shorter footpads for free. Couldn't be happier.

On that note, are there any discernible differences between the board or amp from the original vs the revised model?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Eighty8 said:


> I purchased a used Vali 2 (1.0) from another user here maybe 6 months ago. I didn't even realize that there were two versions. I also have a Magni 3 beneath it for when I want that full SS sound. I didn't really like the mismatched knobs, so I reached out to Schiit asking about the revised model and possibly getting a new knob. They got right back to me with the shipped price of $3.57. I was completely taken back by the great customer service. They also threw in the revised shorter footpads for free. Couldn't be happier.
> 
> On that note, are there any discernible differences between the board or amp from the original vs the revised model?


Interesting question, @Eighty8 ... My Wreck-It-Ralph sized hands struggled with the stock knobs... so I picked up larger, butt-ugly, textured knobs. After *gently* prying the stock knobs off (glued on?!), and anchoring the replacements -- excellent fine-adjustment for me. 
I haven't seen any comments on the threads about appreciable differences on the Vali2 models. I'm guessing Schiit just tweaked the board slightly (for easier assembly? For more robust tube-socket attachment?). Again, I'm guessing here a bit. Me? I'm pleased with the little, versatile toaster.


----------



## senorx12562 (Apr 25, 2019)

Eighty8 said:


> I purchased a used Vali 2 (1.0) from another user here maybe 6 months ago. I didn't even realize that there were two versions. I also have a Magni 3 beneath it for when I want that full SS sound. I didn't really like the mismatched knobs, so I reached out to Schiit asking about the revised model and possibly getting a new knob. They got right back to me with the shipped price of $3.57. I was completely taken back by the great customer service. They also threw in the revised shorter footpads for free. Couldn't be happier.
> 
> On that note, are there any discernible differences between the board or amp from the original vs the revised model?


----------



## Mr Trev

Eighty8 said:


> I purchased a used Vali 2 (1.0) from another user here maybe 6 months ago. I didn't even realize that there were two versions. I also have a Magni 3 beneath it for when I want that full SS sound. I didn't really like the mismatched knobs, so I reached out to Schiit asking about the revised model and possibly getting a new knob. They got right back to me with the shipped price of $3.57. I was completely taken back by the great customer service. They also threw in the revised shorter footpads for free. Couldn't be happier.
> 
> On that note, are there any discernible differences between the board or amp from the original vs the revised model?



Jeez, lucky you. When I emailed Schiit about getting another cover plate (I wanted to bore out the tube opening to fit a 6sn7 adapter) they bluntly replied "we don't sell parts"


----------



## senorx12562

My customer service experience with Schiit has been variable.   My Jotenheim was ordered w/o a dac card, but when I got it, it had a dac. Since I paid for the amp only, I can't complain, but I imagine it can go the other way, too. My recent Vali2 order contained no stick on feet. They were very responsive to my email re same, and again when the USPS sent them to Oregon for some reason. Both pckgs eventually showed up, so now I have 14 extra feet (and how many of us can say that?). On the other hand, when I returned my Modi MB for warranty service, it came back with a Modi 2 in the MB case. At first, they acted like I was lying about it, but it got taken care of in the end, so...   I still would buy from them, so I guess it's been good enough for my purposes. I never forget my experiences providing customer service, either, so I try to be kind, which can't hurt. I don't expect perfection, as long as screw-ups are made right, and that has happened.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Delirious Lab said:


> Dipping a Vali in the bathtub... wasn't that one of the ways Bill Murray killed himself in _Groundhog Day_?


...talk about some *product placement*, eh. Toss a Vali or Valhalla into Bill Murray's bathtub.   ....so.... @SchiitFerBrainz .... is that... you know... covered by the warranty? J/K.

On another note. I discovered a fascinating YouTube channel about audio science and HiFi repairs. He's a gifted teacher. And a Canadian to boot (out of Vancouver, BC)...link.

That's far, far beyond my abilities. I can appreciate it; however, the thought of electrocuting myself with DC or AC reminds me to let the professionals do repairs.
Here's an example of Mister Carlson's Lab... how does a vacuum tube work?....


----------



## MaskedRacerX (Apr 25, 2019)

OK, my current setup 

MBP >> Optical >> Modi 3 >> Vali 2 >> HD6XX [or] Edifier 1280s

Vali is now sporting a 9-pin socket saver, and a matched EH 6922 

I'm actually thinking about picking up a pair of Massdrop X Meze 99s, kind of got into a pattern, if I'm listening to cans, I want total isolation, otherwise, I'll just use my desktop speakers (might sell the HD6XXs)

I'm running my TEAC 650 CD player directly to the speakers, but I'd like to go through the Modi/Vali, I think I might switch the MBP to USB and use the optical for the CD player ...


----------



## ScubaMan2017

senorx12562 said:


> My customer service experience with Schiit has been variable.   My Jotenheim was ordered w/o a dac card, but when I got it, it had a dac. Since I paid for the amp only, I can't complain, but I imagine it can go the other way, too. My recent Vali2 order contained no stick on feet. They were very responsive to my email re same, and again when the USPS sent them to Oregon for some reason. Both pckgs eventually showed up, so now I have 14 extra feet (and how many of us can say that?). On the other hand, when I returned my Modi MB for warranty service, it came back with a Modi 2 in the MB case. At first, they acted like I was lying about it, but it got taken care of in the end, so...   I still would buy from them, so I guess it's been good enough for my purposes. I never forget my experiences providing customer service, either, so I try to be kind, which can't hurt. I don't expect perfection, as long as screw-ups are made right, and that has happened.


I still remember my first order with them. They sent me a unlabelled Modi Multibit. I asked them to mail me the serial-number sticker. About 48h later, I received a brand new, properly labelled unit without paperwork. I contacted them and asked if they'd like me to return the original (unlabelled) unit. I thought I could hear the grimace on the other end... _why, yes. Yes, sir. That would be appreciated (whisper whisper who the heck sent a unit out without an RMA)_. 


MaskedRacerX said:


> OK, my current setup
> 
> MBP >> Optical >> Modi 3 >> Vali 2 >> HD6XX [or] Edifier 1280s
> 
> ...


Those HD650 clones should fetch a good price (they're going for ~$380 CDN here in Ontario). I understand your desire for isolation... that leads to some heavy duty, deep listening. I've already blown my beer fund... I was considering a modified Fostex (ModHouse Argon Mk2). I balked at the 8-9 week lead-time. My loss...


----------



## MtnMan307

Vali 2 was the first headphone amp I ever bought.  I think about 3 years ago.  It's been with me through it all, since before I even had a DAC.  This amp has run about 5 different cans for me, going to be 6 when I try my new Aeolus with it.  Right now it is doing a pretty good job with an old pair of AKG K240 Sextetts.  I didn't think it could handle these 600 ohm monsters very well, but it sounds pretty damn good.  I think the Lyr 3 is better for these cans but Vali 2 is delivering.  I paid $169...IMHO the current $149 price is a freaking steal for the sound and versatility it offers.  My other AKG, K7XX, is a beautiful match with this amplifier.


----------



## Keno18

MtnMan307 said:


> Vali 2 was the first headphone amp I ever bought.  I think about 3 years ago.  It's been with me through it all, since before I even had a DAC.  This amp has run about 5 different cans for me, going to be 6 when I try my new Aeolus with it.  Right now it is doing a pretty good job with an old pair of AKG K240 Sextetts.  I didn't think it could handle these 600 ohm monsters very well, but it sounds pretty damn good.  I think the Lyr 3 is better for these cans but Vali 2 is delivering.  I paid $169...IMHO the current $149 price is a freaking steal for the sound and versatility it offers.  My other AKG, K7XX, is a beautiful match with this amplifier.


+1


----------



## AzmiAN

Anybody has compare this this with Massdrop THX 789. I would like to know what are the difference.


----------



## MtnMan307

The THX 789 is a totally different type of amplifier.  It is a balanced (at least in output, not sure if the topology is fully balanced or not) solid state amp. It does not use a tube.  I’m not sure if I’ve heard it or not but it will sound different, being a very different design.

Vali 2 is a single ended tube hybrid amp. You can change the tube, or “roll” it, to change the sound signature.  It is not going to sound transparent like the 789 is supposed to.


----------



## AzmiAN

MtnMan307 said:


> The THX 789 is a totally different type of amplifier.  It is a balanced (at least in output, not sure if the topology is fully balanced or not) solid state amp. It does not use a tube.  I’m not sure if I’ve heard it or not but it will sound different, being a very different design.
> 
> Vali 2 is a single ended tube hybrid amp. You can change the tube, or “roll” it, to change the sound signature.  It is not going to sound transparent like the 789 is supposed to.



Thanks MtnMan.....at the moment I am using Stax L300 earspeaker with 2 type of driver. First one the 252s and the other SRM 007TA tube driver. Comparing this two I would say that I love 
the sound from 007TA. Recently I came across Focal Clear hp so was thinking to get an amp for that. 
Do you think Vali has enough power to drive the FC?


----------



## MtnMan307

The Focal Clear has an impedance of 55 ohms and a sensitivity of 104 dB. Vali 2 will have no problem at all driving it. I’ve never heard that combo but it should sound at least good.


----------



## Delirious Lab

Question from a n00b tube roller: How do you swap tubes without fear of breaking your amps?

I use socket savers but I still need to apply some force to push tubes in or pull them out.  I'm always afraid I will break something or rip the socket off the board.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Delirious Lab said:


> Question from a n00b tube roller: How do you swap tubes without fear of breaking your amps?
> 
> I use socket savers but I still need to apply some force to push tubes in or pull them out.  I'm always afraid I will break something or rip the socket off the board.


Like you, I'm a nOOb roller. It's cool, have no fear. 
I learned to do a gentle rocking motion to remove tubes... and a gentle rocking motion to insert them into the sockets. The socket savers might stick on the tube as its pulled out... or it might not. I suspect these sockets are tough -- and also anchored through the red-board (not surface mounted).


----------



## Robert Padgett

Delirious Lab said:


> Question from an n00b tube roller: How do you swap tubes without fear of breaking your amps?
> 
> I use socket savers but I still need to apply some force to push tubes in or pull them out.  I'm always afraid I will break something or rip the socket off the board.



Check the socket savers. If you have a difficult time inserting the pins of a tube, one of the sockets may have been collapsed if you pushed the pin in beside the socket instead of in the socket. I speak from experience, pins should slide in and out of the socket saver with ease. As for breaking the glass envelope--they are very strong, not fragile flowers. In order for them to be under vacuum, the glass needs to be strong. This is not to say that you could not break one, I would be looking at the socket saver for a deformed socket.


----------



## Jacobh

Delirious Lab said:


> Question from a n00b tube roller: How do you swap tubes without fear of breaking your amps?
> 
> I use socket savers but I still need to apply some force to push tubes in or pull them out.  I'm always afraid I will break something or rip the socket off the board.



Some force is normal, but you shouldn't feel like you have to "force" it if that makes sense.  As others have said you might need to rock them back and forth a little bit.  Also, hold onto the base when putting them in or taking them out (not the glass).  If the base sticks, you can pull the glass off (that's probably the most likely way you'd break a tube without dropping it from some distance on a hard surface).


----------



## Delirious Lab (May 8, 2019)

Thanks for all the advice.  Indeed, the rocking back and forth technique to pull/insert tubes is not touted enough - so much easier for peace of mind than vertical pulling/pushing...

By the way, I finally took the 6SN7 Tung-Sol off the Saga at home and brought it to the office this morning.  Vali rocks _hard_ with this tube!

Pretty ugly though...


----------



## bcowen

Delirious Lab said:


> Thanks for all the advice.  Indeed, the rocking back and forth technique to pull/insert tubes is not touted enough - so much easier for peace of mind than vertical pulling/pushing...
> 
> By the way, I finally took the 6SN7 Tung-Sol off the Saga at home and brought it to the office this morning.  Vali rocks _hard_ with this tube!
> 
> Pretty ugly though...




This is what I use. Don't cheap out on a short and stubby knock-off made in China.  The 4' length gives you plenty of leverage when needed. On the plus side, if you end up breaking the tube you also have plenty of leverage for ripping the cover off the amp to get the remnant of the tube base out easily.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Delirious Lab said:


> Thanks for all the advice.  Indeed, the rocking back and forth technique to pull/insert tubes is not touted enough - so much easier for peace of mind than vertical pulling/pushing...
> 
> By the way, I finally took the 6SN7 Tung-Sol off the Saga at home and brought it to the office this morning.  Vali rocks _hard_ with this tube!
> 
> Pretty ugly though...


I got the JJ Electronics (Slovak, new production) version of your Tung-Sol. Tung-Sol & JJ Electronics are indeed a significant improvement over the stock tube. Even though I'm enjoying my new toy (Valhalla), my modified Vali2 is indeed fantastic. I mused about using a pair of sharp wire cutters to shorten those exposed copper pins. Nah


----------



## Delirious Lab (May 9, 2019)

I'm usually a classical nerd, but ever since rolling in that Tung-Sol all I've wanted to do is rock out to Rush.  I've listened to a dozen of their albums since yesterday.

Bass extension and clarity is WOW - never heard my HD600's digging so deep.


----------



## Keno18

Delirious Lab said:


> I'm usually a classical nerd, but ever since rolling in that Tung-Sol all I've wanted to do is rock out to Rush.  I've listened to a dozen of their albums since yesterday.
> 
> Bass extension and clarity is WOW - never heard my HD600's digging so deep.


You ought to try the vintage Tung-Sol 6sn7gt mouse ears.


----------



## bcowen

Delirious Lab said:


> I'm usually a classical nerd, but ever since rolling in that Tung-Sol all I've wanted to do is rock out to Rush.  I've listened to a dozen of their albums since yesterday.
> 
> Bass extension and clarity is WOW - never heard my HD600's digging so deep.



If you want to rock (as we all should) you should consider some Fotons (the 6N8S / 6H8C are 6SN7 equivalents).  Should be in every rocker's collection.  

The 1955 and earlier production dates with the ribbed plates are the best. Those used to be plentiful but have now all but disappeared from Ebay, and when they do pop up occasionally the prices are sky high. Honestly there are not great big differences between the ribbed and non-ribbed plates -- the ribbed plates are slightly better but they both sound great. There ARE big differences though once you get into the '60's or later production dates which don't sound anywhere near as good.  Just spied this on Ebay for some '56's at $8.95 a pair, and supply on the '56 - '59 production dates is thinning out rather quickly too.  I know nothing about the seller, just wanted to point this out as a pretty darn good deal on these tubes that are becoming scarce. Beware that there is a long break-in period of ~100 hours required before they settle down and sing their best.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N8S-1578-...297020?hash=item2cded8957c:g:rmAAAOSwSk5crLcN


----------



## bochawa

Delirious Lab said:


> I'm usually a classical nerd, but ever since rolling in that Tung-Sol all I've wanted to do is rock out to Rush.  I've listened to a dozen of their albums since yesterday.
> 
> Bass extension and clarity is WOW - never heard my HD600's digging so deep.


Your comment about Rush has convinced me to give this combo a try.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Delirious Lab said:


> I'm usually a classical nerd, but ever since rolling in that Tung-Sol all I've wanted to do is rock out to Rush.  I've listened to a dozen of their albums since yesterday.
> 
> Bass extension and clarity is WOW - never heard my HD600's digging so deep.


SUBDIVISIONS!


----------



## Keno18

Just upgraded my foobar install from  "PCM to DSD128 DoP WASAPI" to "PCM to DSD256 Native ASIO". Another jump in detail retrieval and clarity. Bass increased too. If anyone is interested Google "foobar for dummies part 2" for a step by step guide.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Keno18 said:


> Just upgraded my foobar install from  "PCM to DSD128 DoP WASAPI" to "PCM to DSD256 Native ASIO". Another jump in detail retrieval and clarity. Bass increased too. If anyone is interested Google "foobar for dummies part 2" for a step by step guide.


I'll check it out. Foobar for Android-enabled Chromebooks feels like a stripped down version of its Windows 7 counterpart.  Ah well....


----------



## Keno18

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I'll check it out. Foobar for Android-enabled Chromebooks feels like a stripped down version of its Windows 7 counterpart.  Ah well....


Unfortunately the  DSD software used is Windows only. To run it I bought a refurbished 5 year old i5 HP note book for about  $330. It doesn't take much horse power to run it thank goodness.


----------



## bcowen

Keno18 said:


> Unfortunately the  DSD software used is Windows only. To run it I bought a refurbished 5 year old i5 HP note book for about  $330. It doesn't take much horse power to run it thank goodness.



Does this work with Tidal, do you know?  I'm pretty clueless with the software side of all this stuff...


----------



## Keno18 (May 14, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Does this work with Tidal, do you know?  I'm pretty clueless with the software side of all this stuff...


I'm afraid not. Foobar is itself a player for music files and CDs. It has limited streaming ability.  (Some Internet radio.)
EDIT: Hold the phone, I just found a link that  supposed to show you how to do it: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...mp-through-your-software-player-choice-23987/
Haven't tried it myself but I think I am going to.


----------



## Old Deaf Donkey

One more twin setup:


----------



## bcowen

Keno18 said:


> I'm afraid not. Foobar is itself a player for music files and CDs. It has limited streaming ability.  (Some Internet radio.)
> EDIT: Hold the phone, I just found a link that  supposed to show you how to do it: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...mp-through-your-software-player-choice-23987/
> Haven't tried it myself but I think I am going to.



Awesome. Thanks!  I'll see if I can make it work.


----------



## attmci

Old Deaf Donkey said:


> Some ideas for tubes for Vali 2:
> 1 6922 1239 ? Vali 2 stock tube
> 2 6922 6N23P Reflektor fact., Saratov x2
> 3 6922 6922 Electro Harmonix modern
> ...



My suggestion is buy good tubes, and sell the ones you don't like to Mr. Padgett.


----------



## Old Deaf Donkey

attmci said:


> My suggestion is buy good tubes, and sell the ones you don't like to Mr. Padgett.


That is already in the making  I just went up a long learning curve, meticulously and patiently. On the way, I found some tubes I really liked. I have never had a hope to find "the tube", the Holy Grail. I am enjoying the process, I am learning a lot. I have bought some 7A4 to try, and some 6C8G, will post them soon. Maybe I need to buy a couple of known good 6SN7 tubes such as Sylvania Bad Boy and Tung Sol black glass, round and/or oval plates. That will be close to having all I may be interested in.


----------



## exdmd (May 18, 2019)

A $200+ 1940's Tung Sol 6SN7GT is overkill for a Vali 2 but not for a Lyr 3. If you have to use a 6SN7GT with adapter consider a three rivet hole 1950's Sylvania from Brent Jessee. He might have some left for $70.


----------



## tafens

I’m currently enjoying the reissue Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB in Lyr3, and, I think, probably is a great starter for rolling into the Vali2 as well, as far as less expensive 6SN7’s go.


----------



## bcowen

Old Deaf Donkey said:


> That is already in the making  I just went up a long learning curve, meticulously and patiently. On the way, I found some tubes I really liked. I have never had a hope to find "the tube", the Holy Grail. I am enjoying the process, I am learning a lot. I have bought some 7A4 to try, and some 6C8G, will post them soon. Maybe I need to buy a couple of known good 6SN7 tubes such as Sylvania Bad Boy and Tung Sol black glass, round and/or oval plates. That will be close to having all I may be interested in.



Wait a minute....only one 12AU7?  No 12AT7's?  5692's? 6CG7's? 7N7's? 7AF7's?  6H8C's?  You're just getting the engine warmed up a little at this point.


----------



## Old Deaf Donkey

bcowen said:


> Wait a minute....only one 12AU7?  No 12AT7's?  5692's? 6CG7's? 7N7's? 7AF7's?  6H8C's?  You're just getting the engine warmed up a little at this point.


I have a 833C, as you know. Wait until I get an adapter for Vali 2 for that one. Then we'll be talking. On the radio.


----------



## bcowen

Old Deaf Donkey said:


> I have a 833C, as you know. Wait until I get an adapter for Vali 2 for that one. Then we'll be talking. On the radio.



You may want to invest in one of those lead vests -- you know, like they put on you for an X-Ray at the dentist.


----------



## attmci (May 18, 2019)

Old Deaf Donkey said:


> That is already in the making  I just went up a long learning curve, meticulously and patiently. On the way, I found some tubes I really liked. I have never had a hope to find "the tube", the Holy Grail. I am enjoying the process, I am learning a lot. I have bought some 7A4 to try, and some 6C8G, will post them soon. Maybe I need to buy a couple of known good 6SN7 tubes such as Sylvania Bad Boy and Tung Sol black glass, round and/or oval plates. That will be close to having all I may be interested in.


Way to go!!

I don't believe the TS RPBG worth over $120. If you can use 6C8G/6F8G, sometimes you can find cheap TS VT-163, 6F8Gs. Learn to identify these according to the structures, instead of the brands. Good luck!!
For example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-Testing-Roundplate-1-is-Tungsol-6F8G-Audio-Tubes/153402819387?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I still prefer the ECC3X tubes to these US tubes......

These are all popular tubes and you might be able to use them on your next tube amp.


----------



## Robert Padgett

attmci said:


> My suggestion is buy good tubes, and sell the ones you don't like to Mr. Padgett.



I am up for that!  My newest interest is some tubes from the 12A*7 family in the Valhalla 2 since my adapters arrived. On the Vali 2, the 6SN7--to my ears--is much fuller sounding than the stock 6BZ7 or a E88CC Telefunken. 

A really good tube from in this class has caused me to surrender the dual adapter for 6J5GTs. It is on extended Leave of Absence. 

My current favorite is a 1953 Black Plate (Three holes) with Mouse-ears. Which was not expensive and seems to be quite rare in the Wild...it was branded Hytron and most Tung Sols I have seen have gray plates with two-holes.


----------



## BubbaJay

After getting the JDS Labs EL stack (EL amp and EL DAC) I put my Vali away so its been months since listening to it.  I hooked it up to the EL DAC and it pair much better with that than it did with the Mimby.  I really like the way my HP-3 sounds on it.  Very full sounding with a wider soundstage and really full sounding bass.  The Vali warms them up a touch but not to much as to take away that nice crisp treble I like.  Glad I got the amp out and now I'm going to go back and enjoy them some more.


----------



## BubbaJay

I have to say that my Vali 2 sounds so much better paired with the JDS Labs EL DAC than with the Mimby.  I actually put the Vali away for a while because I didn't like the way it sounded but with the EL and with the RCA clear top tube I have my Klipsch HP-3 sounds really good.  I still like my EL amp it's just the Vali gives me a different signature.  The soundstage is very airy sounding and the overall sound is quite vivid with nice mids.  I'm glad I got the Vali back out and tried it again because compared to how it sounded with the Mimby and now with the EL DAC is as close to night and day as I've gotten with anything.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

BubbaJay said:


> I have to say that my Vali 2 sounds so much better paired with the JDS Labs EL DAC than with the Mimby.  I actually put the Vali away for a while because I didn't like the way it sounded but with the EL and with the RCA clear top tube I have my Klipsch HP-3 sounds really good.  I still like my EL amp it's just the Vali gives me a different signature.  The soundstage is very airy sounding and the overall sound is quite vivid with nice mids.  I'm glad I got the Vali back out and tried it again because compared to how it sounded with the Mimby and now with the EL DAC is as close to night and day as I've gotten with anything.


I almost went down the JDS Labs route. They have some NICE gear. I still like their smooth-rotating knobs. And the one time that I sent them an email, they responded within hours.


----------



## BubbaJay

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I almost went down the JDS Labs route. They have some NICE gear. I still like their smooth-rotating knobs. And the one time that I sent them an email, they responded within hours.



I've been very happy with both the EL dac and amp.  They just present the music the way it was recorded with very good clarity.  The Vali sound so much better now that I'm using it as much as the EL amp.  I still don't like the way my planars sound on it as much as the solid-state EL but my HP-3 sounds great, as to does the Elear.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

BubbaJay said:


> I've been very happy with both the EL dac and amp.  They just present the music the way it was recorded with very good clarity.  The Vali sound so much better now that I'm using it as much as the EL amp.  I still don't like the way my planars sound on it as much as the solid-state EL but my HP-3 sounds great, as to does the Elear.


My main criticism of Schiit Audio gear is their teeny tiny dials on the Loki, Magni, and Vali. I just *DON'T* like the feel of them. It makes them feel cheap (and yes, I know that might be an unfair comment). Fine tuning is more difficult for guys with Wreck-it-Ralph hands like mine! I think it was a mistake using such knobs. For my Magni & Vali, I ended up removing them and trying out weighted (or knobs with larger diameters or with felt inlays) purchased from surplus stores.


----------



## bcowen

ScubaMan2017 said:


> My main criticism of Schiit Audio gear is their teeny tiny dials on the Loki, Magni, and Vali. I just *DON'T* like the feel of them. It makes them feel cheap (and yes, I know that might be an unfair comment). Fine tuning is more difficult for guys with Wreck-it-Ralph hands like mine! I think it was a mistake using such knobs. For my Magni & Vali, I ended up removing them and trying out weighted (or knobs with larger diameters or with felt inlays) purchased from surplus stores.



I agree they are tiny with a pretty cheap tactile feeling. The volume knob on the Lyr 3 is much better...3x the size of the tiny ones, and has a quality "feel" to the rotation.


----------



## BubbaJay

ScubaMan2017 said:


> My main criticism of Schiit Audio gear is their teeny tiny dials on the Loki, Magni, and Vali. I just *DON'T* like the feel of them. It makes them feel cheap (and yes, I know that might be an unfair comment). Fine tuning is more difficult for guys with Wreck-it-Ralph hands like mine! I think it was a mistake using such knobs. For my Magni & Vali, I ended up removing them and trying out weighted (or knobs with larger diameters or with felt inlays) purchased from surplus stores.



Luckily I have long skinny fingers so the dials aren't a problem for me.

I'm really enjoying my Vali and JDS Labs EL dac combo and now I'm thinking of upgrading to a new hybrid or even full tube amp.  I just don't know what to get and don't really want to spend more than $400 or so.  If anyone has any suggestions on some good amps in the $400 price range please let me know.


----------



## bcowen

BubbaJay said:


> Luckily I have long skinny fingers so the dials aren't a problem for me.
> 
> I'm really enjoying my Vali and JDS Labs EL dac combo and now I'm thinking of upgrading to a new hybrid or even full tube amp.  I just don't know what to get and don't really want to spend more than $400 or so.  If anyone has any suggestions on some good amps in the $400 price range please let me know.



If you like the sound of the Vali 2, then consider this.  A little over your budget, but not by much -- B Stock at Schiit. I started with the Vali 2, then got the Lyr 3 and never looked back.  Similar in sonic character, just with way bigger balls.   And the character can be even more easily influenced with your choice of tube than with the Vali 2 (IME).

https://www.schiit.com/b-stocks


----------



## Keno18

BubbaJay said:


> Luckily I have long skinny fingers so the dials aren't a problem for me.
> 
> I'm really enjoying my Vali and JDS Labs EL dac combo and now I'm thinking of upgrading to a new hybrid or even full tube amp.  I just don't know what to get and don't really want to spend more than $400 or so.  If anyone has any suggestions on some good amps in the $400 price range please let me know.


I agree about the Lyr but I went a different route. I wanted a full tube amp but the ones that use the tubes I wanted run at least  $600. I found the DarkVoice 336 SE on Drop.com for  $200. It uses the 6sn7 driver and the 6as7 power tube. I've had it for over a month now and have been happy with it.


----------



## Robert Padgett

BubbaJay said:


> Luckily I have long skinny fingers so the dials aren't a problem for me.
> 
> I'm really enjoying my Vali and JDS Labs EL dac combo and now I'm thinking of upgrading to a new hybrid or even full tube amp.  I just don't know what to get and don't really want to spend more than $400 or so.  If anyone has any suggestions on some good amps in the $400 price range please let me know.




I have found Musical Nirvana with a pair of 1960s Brimar 12at7 (CV4033) in a Valhalla 2. VH2 is $350, valves from Tubemonger.com are $90...pure tube sound, not a hybrid, OTL design.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

*Behold! ugly modifications, version 2*. Socket savers on all the VH2 tubes to make them stick out (_cooling_); two 6N1P tubes from a local vendor (_why not?_); block o' wood to elevate the LOKI _so EQ fine-tuning's a bit easier_; trimmed the 6SN7 copper pins to snuggly fit the socket saver (_aesthetics & stable-anchoring_); hand-cut felt pieces to allow _smooth Vali & Magni knob motion_; and 2 weighted knobs from a local scientific instrument recycler (_microscope knobs [finessing my fine adjustments]_). Oh, and a right-angled headphone jack adaptor to _reduce cable flexing_. Not shown - EITR, ModiMB, SYS electrical-taped under the desk (_so all the Y-connections remain connected_).


----------



## BubbaJay

I've thought about the Lyr and the DarkVoice but I don't know if I want a hybrid or full tube amp.  I've started to enjoy my LCD-2C and Aiva with the Vali so a hybrid would be more practical since I could use it with all my headphones.

I'm also considering maybe a balanced dac/amp combo like the Topping DX7s or Monolith THX AAA, something along those lines.  I like how my headphones sound balanced with my M11 and a good desktop setup would be even better.

I'll keep looking around and keep my options open for now cuz I'm in no rush and perfectly happy with what I have at the moment.


----------



## Robert Padgett

BubbaJay said:


> --clip--
> 
> I'll keep looking around and keep my options open for now cuz I'm in no rush and perfectly happy with what I have at the moment.



Being perfectly happy with what you have is a great place to be. Now, enjoy the music, and the "need" to buy something different will soon pass. That annoying gnawing to spend more money on something new robs us of the enjoyment and contentment with what we already have. I have found that if I can temper the "upgrade-itis", it has its own rewards.


----------



## Robert Padgett

ScubaMan2017 said:


> *Behold! ugly modifications, version 2*. Socket savers on all the VH2 tubes to make them stick out (_cooling_); two 6N1P tubes from a local vendor (_why not?_); block o' wood to elevate the LOKI _so EQ fine-tuning's a bit easier_; trimmed the 6SN7 copper pins to snuggly fit the socket saver (_aesthetics & stable-anchoring_); hand-cut felt pieces to allow _smooth Vali & Magni knob motion_; and 2 weighted knobs from a local scientific instrument recycler (_microscope knobs [finessing my fine adjustments]_). Oh, and a right-angled headphone jack adaptor to _reduce cable flexing_. Not shown - EITR, ModiMB, SYS electrical-taped under the desk (_so all the Y-connections remain connected_).


Scuba man--I cannot imagine a pair of hands bigger, or more clumsy than mine. Add to that no feeling in the finger-tips and we have learned the wisdom of "Improvise, Adapt and Overcome"  I find your larger knobs as a unique adaptation which affords you more comfort and control. No need to apologize or explain. That is some impressive Schiit you have stacked. The socket-savers under the Valhalla 2 tubes really does improve the convection and circulation. Even if the design parameters allow for 100-C heat, we have to realize that heat is one factor which we can control. Cheers, mate!


----------



## bcowen

Robert Padgett said:


> That annoying gnawing to spend more money on something new robs us of the enjoyment and contentment with what we already have.



No it doesn't.


----------



## Robert Padgett

bcowen said:


> No it doesn't.



Yes, it DOES!  

If the end game is musical enjoyment...


----------



## GhostLoveScore

Hi guys, I apologize if I will sound like a whiny baby but here it goes.

Is there anybody here that doesn't hear any difference whatsoever between using Vali 2 and without it? I've had it for about 2 years now and it really just serves me as a volume knob.
I've read so many stories that the sound is like an angels singing in your ears etc... I honestly don't hear anything more.

Now, I'm not that deaf. About 5 years ago I replaced my Logitech computer speakers with Kurzweil monitors and let me tell you, that was a massive difference. I really could hear more. I could hear instruments below the main ones, the guitars sounded amazing, it was really great, I had to listen to all my songs too see what else was there. But not with Vali 2. I expected something similar. I got nothing, no difference, no new details. I've been using AKG K701 and Meze 99 Classic with it.

End of whining. Did anybody else experienced something like this? I'm plugging a computer headphone jack into Vali 2 and that's it. Am I doing something wrong?


----------



## bcowen

GhostLoveScore said:


> End of whining. Did anybody else experienced something like this? I'm plugging a computer headphone jack into Vali 2 and that's it. *Am I doing something wrong?*



Yes, you're using one of the lousiest sources imaginable. Get a decent external DAC, and then try the Vali 2 again.


----------



## Rwit

bcowen said:


> Yes, you're using one of the lousiest sources imaginable. Get a decent external DAC, and then try the Vali 2 again.



Seconding this. Get a decent DAC like the Schitt Modi or Grace Design Standard DAC, something that puts out a line level signal, and then plug your Vali 2 into that.

Also, don't expect angels singing in your ears! You will only be disappointed. Expect music that sounds good and a small but significant upgrade from what you have.


----------



## volly

GhostLoveScore said:


> Hi guys, I apologize if I will sound like a whiny baby but here it goes.
> 
> Is there anybody here that doesn't hear any difference whatsoever between using Vali 2 and without it? I've had it for about 2 years now and it really just serves me as a volume knob.
> I've read so many stories that the sound is like an angels singing in your ears etc... I honestly don't hear anything more.
> ...


Going to-and-from with speakers and headphones is a different experiences extirely, musically, speakers is hard to beat! If you have the right room and environment, speakers will always sound 'better'! As for headphones, source/amp is crucial to getting the most out of your headphones! Synergy is still key here too! Vali 2 is a great little 150 dollar tube hybrid amp but ymmv with your gear that you are using. The K701 maybe do better with a solid state amp and the Meze 99 can be happy at home running off a phone/dap, it probably wouldn't do much other than to drive it with the Vali 2!

The debate between onboard audio compared to external DAC has been done to death, but Vali 2 is just an 'amp', it will only amplify the signal. How good/decent is that signal is up to the user to decide! A Schiit Modi is 99 dollars, can't hurt to experiment??

All the best!


----------



## senorx12562 (Aug 4, 2019)

GhostLoveScore said:


> Hi guys, I apologize if I will sound like a whiny baby but here it goes.
> 
> Is there anybody here that doesn't hear any difference whatsoever between using Vali 2 and without it? I've had it for about 2 years now and it really just serves me as a volume knob.
> I've read so many stories that the sound is like an angels singing in your ears etc... I honestly don't hear anything more.
> ...



Sell it and listen from the jack. Simple, eh?


----------



## bcowen

volly said:


> Going to-and-from with speakers and headphones is a different experiences extirely, musically, speakers is hard to beat! If you have the right room and environment, speakers will always sound 'better'! As for headphones, source/amp is crucial to getting the most out of your headphones! Synergy is still key here too! Vali 2 is a great little 150 dollar tube hybrid amp but ymmv with your gear that you are using. The K701 maybe do better with a solid state amp and the Meze 99 can be happy at home running off a phone/dap, it probably wouldn't do much other than to drive it with the Vali 2!
> 
> The debate between onboard audio compared to external DAC has been done to death, but Vali 2 is just an 'amp', it will only amplify the signal. How good/decent is that signal is up to the user to decide! A Schiit Modi is 99 dollars, can't hurt to experiment??
> 
> All the best!



Volly!!!!  Been a while. Great to see you here again! How are things?


----------



## bcowen (Aug 4, 2019)

senorx12562 said:


> Sell it and listen from the jack. Simple, eh?



That's one approach, to be sure.  I've listened to my Aeons through the laptop's headphone jack, and if that was the pinnacle of headphone listening, I'd be involving myself in some other hobby.  

However, if @GhostLoveScore decides to go that route, PM me. Been looking for a used Vali 2, and they are hard to find.


----------



## volly

bcowen said:


> Volly!!!!  Been a while. Great to see you here again! How are things?


Been good mate, haven't been too active on Headfi much lately but I'm still around!

How's the tube stash inventory? Is it out of control yet?


----------



## bcowen

volly said:


> Been good mate, haven't been too active on Headfi much lately but I'm still around!
> 
> How's the tube stash inventory? Is it out of control yet?



Good to hear you're good!  

As far as tube stashes, define 'out of control'.


----------



## GhostLoveScore

bcowen said:


> That's one approach, to be sure.  I've listened to my Aeons through the laptop's headphone jack, and if that was the pinnacle of headphone listening, I'd be involving myself in some other hobby.
> 
> However, if @GhostLoveScore decides to go that route, PM me. Been looking for a used Vali 2, and they are hard to find.



Right now I won't sell it. It's useful as a volume knob.


----------



## bcowen

GhostLoveScore said:


> Right now I won't sell it. It's useful as a volume knob.



Bad for me, but good for you. What are you using for the music software?  Are you streaming Tidal or other, or playing CD's, etc?


----------



## GhostLoveScore

bcowen said:


> Bad for me, but good for you. What are you using for the music software?  Are you streaming Tidal or other, or playing CD's, etc?



Depends, sometimes I'll put a CD and listen to it and sometimes I'll listen to 320kbps MP3s. CDs I will usually listen on GOM player, MP3s on foobar2000


----------



## Keno18

GhostLoveScore said:


> Depends, sometimes I'll put a CD and listen to it and sometimes I'll listen to 320kbps MP3s. CDs I will usually listen on GOM player, MP3s on foobar2000


Just curious, why GOM player? I use foobar for everything. Is the interface better?


----------



## GhostLoveScore

Keno18 said:


> Just curious, why GOM player? I use foobar for everything. Is the interface better?



I guess it's just a habit. I've been using it for so long and I got used to it. I already know most functions and shortcuts.


----------



## Keno18

GhostLoveScore said:


> I guess it's just a habit. I've been using it for so long and I got used to it. I already know most functions and shortcuts.


Gotcha, if you ever get a dac let us know. Foobar has some great plugins that can take advantage of it.


----------



## cjc

Do 6922 tubes fit the Vali 2 socket or do you need an adapter?


----------



## Jacobh

cjc said:


> Do 6922 tubes fit the Vali 2 socket or do you need an adapter?



No adapter needed for a 6922.  From the Vali FAQ on Schiit's webpage:  But there are a lot of other options out there, including 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 2492, and even more. Pretty much any tube with a 6DJ8 pinout, 6V heater, and 600mA or less of heater current will work fine in Vali 2.

With adapters, there are even more options.  Look at the Vali 2 tube rolling thread for more suggestions.


----------



## cjc

Thanks Jacobh. Does the Vali 2 show up much as B-Stock? I'd like to buy one soon.


----------



## Jacobh

cjc said:


> Thanks Jacobh. Does the Vali 2 show up much as B-Stock? I'd like to buy one soon.



I'm not really sure how often B-Stock comes available.   Keep an eye on the for sale /trade forum here, that's where I bought mine (and where I'll likely sell it at some point).


----------



## MrPretty

cjc said:


> Thanks Jacobh. Does the Vali 2 show up much as B-Stock? I'd like to buy one soon.





Jacobh said:


> I'm not really sure how often B-Stock comes available.   Keep an eye on the for sale /trade forum here, that's where I bought mine (and where I'll likely sell it at some point).



5 in the B-Stock sale as of right now for 99.99
https://www.schiit.com/b-stocks


----------



## bcowen

MrPretty said:


> 5 in the B-Stock sale as of right now for 99.99
> https://www.schiit.com/b-stocks



Now there are 4.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Now there are 4.



Back in the fold?


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Back in the fold?



Yeah, I felt bad about constantly polluting this thread with my blather without actually having one.  I feel more legitimate now (or will as soon as it gets delivered).


----------



## bochawa

bcowen said:


> Now there are 4.


And they're gone already.


----------



## bcowen

bochawa said:


> And they're gone already.



I only bought one.  Promise.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

GhostLoveScore said:


> Hi guys, I apologize if I will sound like a whiny baby but here it goes.
> 
> Is there anybody here that doesn't hear any difference whatsoever between using Vali 2 and without it? I've had it for about 2 years now and it really just serves me as a volume knob.
> I've read so many stories that the sound is like an angels singing in your ears etc... I honestly don't hear anything more.
> ...


*Welcome to the thread*, @GhostLoveScore . *Re: *wild and euphoric sound quality (SQ) changes. _*It's crazy-making*_, isn't it. When I started this ridiculous hobby ~2y ago, I was advised not to expect dramatic sound quality changes when rolling tubes. It's subtle. I think I detect a difference between my Magni3 and my Vali2 (with an upgraded Slovak chunk of glass) -- a slight increase in depth? Pshhh. Dunno. _I like the technology behind how vacuum tubes work and get a kick out of the creepy incandescent glow_. I like the glow so much I picked up Vali's big sister, the Valhalla2. And put sockets savers on it to elevate the valves (better cooling... and MORE apparent glow). It's what I like about the Vali. It's a low risk option for curious headphoners. All hail solid state, eh.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> I only bought one.  Promise.



Too bad. I was going to suggest you get 2. They're only $100 a piece. Then you can use all those matched pair tubes you have (I'd hate to see your hoard go all lopsided). Run the Vali2s in a "dual mono" config. It'd be awesome!


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Too bad. I was going to suggest you get 2. They're only $100 a piece. Then you can use all those matched pair tubes you have (I'd hate to see your hoard go all lopsided). Run the Vali2s in a "dual mono" config. It'd be awesome!



Now why didn't *I* think of that? I'm sure @Paladin79 could whip me up a splitter cable to sum the outputs into each channel. Duh on me.


----------



## Paladin79 (Aug 13, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Now why didn't *I* think of that? I'm sure @Paladin79 could whip me up a splitter cable to sum the outputs into each channel. Duh on me.




I hesitated a bit too long and missed out on a second Vali 2, I need something for some decent A/B testing. Hey @bcowen do you run Tidal, if so listen to the beginning of the 2011 remastered Version of Red Right Hand by Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. What is that at the beginning, someone wadding up cellophane or some such???  I tried it on two different computer sources, different DAC's, different amps, headphones etc. See if you get that if you have time. It occurs in the first 15 seconds or so lol and I have not heard that in other versions.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> I hesitated a bit too long and missed out on a second Vali 2, I need something for some decent A/B testing. Hey @bcowen do you run Tidal, if so listen to the beginning of the 2011 remastered Version of Red Right Hand by Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. What is that at the beginning, someone wadding up cellophane or some such???  I tried it on two different computer sources, different DAC's, different amps, headphones etc. See if you get that if you have time. It occurs in the first 15 seconds or so lol and I have not heard that in other versions.



There are a couple clicks in the first few seconds, but at exactly 14 seconds in I hear a brief crackling too. Have no clue what it is, other than someone in the studio doing something to cause the noise.  Cool song though...I like it!


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> There are a couple clicks in the first few seconds, but at exactly 14 seconds in I hear a brief crackling too. Have no clue what it is, other than someone in the studio doing something to cause the noise.  Cool song though...I like it!



 To the best of my knowledge I have only heard the noise in that iteration of the song, and it is remastered lol. Oh well it ceases after a while.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> To the best of my knowledge I have only heard the noise in that iteration of the song, and it is remastered lol. Oh well it ceases after a while.



It's very brief and not really bothersome (to me). I haven't listened to any of the other versions. Are they as good sound quality-wise as this remastered version?


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> It's very brief and not really bothersome (to me). I haven't listened to any of the other versions. Are they as good sound quality-wise as this remastered version?


I will have to go back and re-listen but I do not recall much difference. There are only a few of his songs I like but that is certainly one of them. I am the same way with Nick Lowe, there are a few things I really like..


----------



## Jacobh

bcowen said:


> It's very brief and not really bothersome (to me). I haven't listened to any of the other versions. Are they as good sound quality-wise as this remastered version?



That noise sounds intentional me.  There is an earlier crackling noise that pans from right to left and is audible in earlier recordings.  Just from listening I think the noises are are supposed to be ruffling through a pack of cigarettes and the sound at 14 seconds is lighting the cigarette.  It would fit in with the song and I thought he was a pretty heavy smoker at one point.

The only version of an earlier mix I've heard had a slightly shorter introduction, but still has the other crackling sounds.


----------



## Paladin79

Sounds good, I may not have picked up on it before.


----------



## Jacobh

I only own The Boatman's call, so I haven't spent a ton of time listening to his other albums.  I just listened to the 2011 remix on Tidal and found some older mixes on You Tube.  The louder sound at 14 seconds wasn't in the earlier mix I found, but the softer crackling sounds before that were.  I doubt I would have picked up on it if I wasn't intentionally listening for it just now though.


----------



## Paladin79

I was listening pretty intently to some tubes when I noticed it and it made me wonder so I began using other equipment lol. I was also using a headphone amp that I built and tweaked to my hearing so it was pretty obvious there. I had moved my Vali to the shop at the time and generally I might have listened with it.


----------



## bcowen

Jacobh said:


> That noise sounds intentional me.  There is an earlier crackling noise that pans from right to left and is audible in earlier recordings.  Just from listening I think the noises are are supposed to be ruffling through a pack of cigarettes and the sound at 14 seconds is lighting the cigarette.  It would fit in with the song and I thought he was a pretty heavy smoker at one point.
> 
> The only version of an earlier mix I've heard had a slightly shorter introduction, but still has the other crackling sounds.



If that's what the sound is he's obviously not using a Zippo.  Pretty low class for a smoker.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> I was listening pretty intently to some tubes when I noticed it and it made me wonder so I began using other equipment lol. I was also using a headphone amp that I built and tweaked to my hearing so it was pretty obvious there. I had moved my Vali to the shop at the time and generally I might have listened with it.



You probably had a GE tube in there by mistake thinking it was a real Ken-Rad.


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> You probably had a GE tube in there by mistake thinking it was a real Ken-Rad.



I have all of my GE tubes locked away. I have a codicil in my will stating that they are to be sent to you upon my demise.

Seriously though I have a new person to run some tubes by in a couple days. She is a musician and I want to see what she thinks of the Melz and a few other tubes I have laying around. I am always interested in the opinions of others, even @bcowen on occasion.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> I have all of my GE tubes locked away. I have a codicil in my will stating that they are to be sent to you upon my demise.



   Thanks?  Would that be classified as gifting?  Or dumping?  



Paladin79 said:


> Seriously though I have a new person to run some tubes by in a couple days. She is a musician and I want to see what she thinks of the Melz and a few other tubes I have laying around.



Hope you have the 100 hour versus unplayed Foton on her itinerary?



Paladin79 said:


> I am always interested in the opinions of others, even @bcowen on occasion.



I'm good for being a last resort. Better than being a no resort.  LOL!


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> Hope you have the 100 hour versus unplayed Foton on her itinerary?



I shall do that as well, I gave her a set of speakers so I am sure she will help out where she can.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> I shall do that as well, I gave her a set of speakers so I am sure she will help out where she can.



You can give her the GE tubes as well and reduce some clutter in your will.


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> You can give her the GE tubes as well and reduce some clutter in your will.



What??? Give away your legacy!!! What kind of friend would do that? 
 Maybe I can send the Fotons on to Schiit when I send the other 6sn7's, not conceal them, just mark them so we know which is which and find out what folks think.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> What??? Give away your legacy!!! What kind of friend would do that?



Friends don't let friends drive drunk....or send them GE's.  



Paladin79 said:


> Maybe I can send the Fotons on to Schiit when I send the other 6sn7's, not conceal them, just mark them so we know which is which and find out what folks think.



I think you should mark them so you know which is which, but keep the identity to yourself until they listen to them and see what comments come back.


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> I think you should mark them so you know which is which, but keep the identity to yourself until they listen to them and see what comments come back.



Already marked, since I had one in a Vali for what seemed like FOREVER, I did not want to lose track of which was which.  Jason said he would send them back soon after the shootout and it would be easy enough to include those. I am going to give him a listing of which tube is which in an envelope with everything I send.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Latest tweak:

Recut felt pads for both my Vali 2 and Magni 3, using a sharp pair of fabric scissors. It won't win any beauty-contests, but it now provides a low-friction surface for the potentiometer's knobs.
Re-seated my kludged knobs purchased from a (scientific instruments & electronics) recycler.
Knobs. Zeroing them onto a post. Why are they so lopsided?! And why do these knobs have 2 anchoring screws - a torx on one side and a odd-flat-head screw on the other.
Open up both screws.
Slide the knob onto slide the knob onto the half-moon portrusion from the volume knob (potentiometer).
Using only the torx screw, seat the knob onto the portrusion. It should just slide on without any lateral shimmy, nor wobble.
Use the flat-head screw to fix the dial onto the potentiometer.
Now, the volume dial turns without a wobble nor shimmy. This'll never be as good as the pot on my Valhalla 2; however, it'll cool my jets about picking up an Asgard 2

*ScubaMan's realization*: some engineer somewhere designed this knob to be precisely affixed... and even calibrated. This lowly dial or knob is a critical human-machine interface and a designer put thought into it.
I now have knob satisfaction with my potentiometers! Woot woot!


----------



## Keno18

Now that I have equalized the Schiit out of my system  (two equalizers daisy chained so I can finally hear some high frequencies), I've fallen back in love with my Vali 2 and Magni 3. Time to tube roll again.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Keno18 said:


> Now that I have equalized the Schiit out of my system  (two equalizers daisy chained so I can finally hear some high frequencies), I've fallen back in love with my Vali 2 and Magni 3. Time to tube roll again.


I've fallen back in love with my Vali & Magni. _Don't get me wrong -- my Valhalla with the (unnecessary) socket savers show off the glorious orange emission._ The tinier headamps hold their own.


----------



## Shane D

I have an agreement with a guy to buy his Vali 2. I will be the 3rd owner. He is tossing in a Telefunken tube. One quarter of the cost of a brand new Lyr 3.

Looking forward to checking out the Schiit hybrid tube. Tried a Loxjie P20 and was disappointed.

Hopefully I can close this tomorrow and have it for next weekend.

Shane D


----------



## Keno18

Shane D said:


> I have an agreement with a guy to buy his Vali 2. I will be the 3rd owner. He is tossing in a Telefunken tube. One quarter of the cost of a brand new Lyr 3.
> 
> Looking forward to checking out the Schiit hybrid tube. Tried a Loxjie P20 and was disappointed.
> 
> ...


Good deal! I'm on my 3rd tube amp and I still listen to my Vali. I think you'll keep it.


----------



## Shane D

Keno18 said:


> Good deal! I'm on my 3rd tube amp and I still listen to my Vali. I think you'll keep it.



Just paid the money and now I wait. He sent me an email stating:

I’m giving you stock 6BZ7 / 6BQ7A;
Telefunken; and Westinghouse.

Hopefully, that's a good thing.

Shane D


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Shane D said:


> I have an agreement with a guy to buy his Vali 2. I will be the 3rd owner. He is tossing in a Telefunken tube. One quarter of the cost of a brand new Lyr 3.
> 
> Looking forward to checking out the Schiit hybrid tube. Tried a Loxjie P20 and was disappointed.
> 
> ...


Third owner?! That's one tough little toaster.


----------



## Shane D

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Third owner?! That's one tough little toaster.



I certainly hope so!

Shane D


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Shane D said:


> I certainly hope so!
> 
> Shane D


I modified mine with a recycled microscope knob (weighted & easy-to-grasp with my fingertips). My Wreck-It-Ralph fingers needed it.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

...oh and dollar-store felt piece between the knob and the aluminum outer chassis. It tracks smooooth.


----------



## Shane D

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I modified mine with a recycled microscope knob (weighted & easy-to-grasp with my fingertips). My Wreck-It-Ralph fingers needed it.



Can you post a pic? Curious to see what you did.

Shane D


----------



## bcowen

Shane D said:


> Can you post a pic? Curious to see what you did.
> 
> Shane D



He already did a number of pages back. Just search his username in this thread and you'll find it pretty easily.


----------



## Shane D

ScubaMan2017 said:


> ...oh and dollar-store felt piece between the knob and the aluminum outer chassis. It tracks smooooth.



That is a jumbo sized knob. You must truly have Hulk-like hands.

Shane D


----------



## bcowen

Shane D said:


> That is a jumbo sized knob. You must truly have Hulk-like hands.
> 
> Shane D



He can pick up 3 bowling balls with one hand....


----------



## tafens

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Third owner?! That's one tough little toaster.


----------



## Shane D

Got my Vali 2 yesterday , but I was busy.  The seller was kind enough to include three tubes.  To save time, I will just cut and paste my reply to the seller:

Wow, it's tiny! I set up my system for comparisons, plugged in the amp, pushed in a tube and hit the power button. Heard a hum and thought "that can't be right". Turned on the music and got nothing. Changed cables and still nothing.
Finally changed tube. Dead quiet and I get sound. And it is very nice sound. Very clean. Don't notice anything particularly "tubey"? Right now it just sounds like any nice SS amp.

Using my Grado GH2's to start off, with my G-cush knock offs. Sounds fine.
Today I received my Beautiful pads from Australia. Cost about the same as the used amp, but wow! Super comfy, good bass and great sound.

Now I am cruising...


Shane D


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Shane D said:


> Can you post a pic? Curious to see what you did.
> 
> Shane D


  Eventually, I yanked out the socket savers from the Valhalla2 (my cats banged them off-centre [I installed a computer fan to the left of the tube-amp to keep it cool... unnecessary, meh]).


----------



## Mr Trev

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Eventually, I yanked out the socket savers from the Valhalla2 (my cats banged them off-centre [I installed a computer fan to the left of the tube-amp to keep it cool... unnecessary, meh]).



Nice knobs!! (first time I've said that without being slapped)

Do those things come in smaller sizes though? Something between the size you have and the stock VAli knob would be about ideal for me
<insert knob size jokes here>…


----------



## tafens

Mr Trev said:


> Nice knobs!! (first time I've said that without being slapped)



I can see some situation where that comment would result in a slap...



Mr Trev said:


> Do those things come in smaller sizes though?



...and also where that follow-up would result in another one 

Seriously though, a search on eBay for “amplifier volume knob” came up with an abundance of different styles, sizes and colours of knobs, including some really nice ones I think for the black range of Schiit gear.


----------



## Shane D

I have now spent a few days with this amp and I am very impressed. For an economical little amp, that was bought second hand, it is quite amazing. Guitars, drums, horns and vocals sound separate and clear. The bass is just fine and it has TONS of power for my Grado's (in low gain I start at 7:00 and finish at 9:00). I have been using this amp exclusively with Grado GH2's (with Beautiful pads - worth every penny!). I have at least 10 to 12 hours on it and am very surprised at the quality of the sound. I didn't know what to expect from a hybrid tube amp, but the Loxjie P20 was a huge disappointment to me. Although to be fair, it never even got to 100 hours, so maybe it was me. But I just didn't want to listen to it anymore. To me it never sounded clean and clear, much like the HE4XX headphones.

I got my Y cables and so I will start doing comparisons against the Liquid Spark, Burson Fun-Classic and maybe even the LCX. This and the Liquid Spark were real bargain finds (used and open box, respectively) and it will be interesting to see which I prefer. The first tube I put in didn't work and now I am using a tube with these markings, if I am reading it right, 6B27 and 68Q7A. Does that sound right and can you identify which tube that is? I just tried to google it and got nothing. It sounds great to me.

If the Lyr 3 is noticably better than this, then it is a must buy and I want to thank the guys who recommended I try this out while thinking about the Lyr 3!


Shane D


----------



## tafens (Oct 19, 2019)

Shane D said:


> I have now spent a few days with this amp and I am very impressed. For an economical little amp, that was bought second hand, it is quite amazing. Guitars, drums, horns and vocals sound separate and clear. The bass is just fine and it has TONS of power for my Grado's (in low gain I start at 7:00 and finish at 9:00). I have been using this amp exclusively with Grado GH2's (with Beautiful pads - worth every penny!). I have at least 10 to 12 hours on it and am very surprised at the quality of the sound. I didn't know what to expect from a hybrid tube amp, but the Loxjie P20 was a huge disappointment to me. Although to be fair, it never even got to 100 hours, so maybe it was me. But I just didn't want to listen to it anymore. To me it never sounded clean and clear, much like the HE4XX headphones.
> 
> I got my Y cables and so I will start doing comparisons against the Liquid Spark, Burson Fun-Classic and maybe even the LCX. This and the Liquid Spark were real bargain finds (used and open box, respectively) and it will be interesting to see which I prefer. The first tube I put in didn't work and now I am using a tube with these markings, if I am reading it right, 6B27 and 68Q7A. Does that sound right and can you identify which tube that is? I just tried to google it and got nothing. It sounds great to me.
> 
> ...



I believe these are the tubes you are looking for:
6BZ7: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6bz7.html
and
6BQ7A: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6bq7a.html

I have no personal experience with the Vali2, but to my ears the Lyr3 sounds fantastic. Also, given that Vali2 is sort of the little brother of Lyr3, it should be a nice step up.

(As Jason explains - and as I understand it - in the chapter about Lyr3 in the Schiit Happened thread the Vali2 topology is the forerunner of Lyr3’s Continuity design)

Edit: Not Continuity, but Coherence. Here’s the post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-2026#post-14116733


----------



## senorx12562

If I am not mistaken, you are probably referring to a 6bz7 and 6bq7. I believe the stock tube Schiit originally included was a 6bz7, though the one that came with mine about 6 most ago had no markings other than 1239 printed vertically but barely visible. As to the latter, see above.


----------



## Shane D

tafens said:


> I believe these are the tubes you are looking for:
> 6BZ7: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6bz7.html
> and
> 6BQ7A: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6bq7a.html
> ...



The tube that is in right now has both numbers on it:
6BZ7
Over
6BQ7A

 

Sounds very good.

Shane D


----------



## Mr Trev

Shane D said:


> The tube that is in right now has both numbers on it:
> 6BZ7
> Over
> 6BQ7A
> ...



Most folks seem to regard that tube (as others posted, the stock tube) as pretty meh. The other tubes should be better - providing they work (maybe that's why he sent you three).
What's the deal with the "dead tube"? Maybe we can help troubleshoot…


----------



## Shane D

Mr Trev said:


> Most folks seem to regard that tube (as others posted, the stock tube) as pretty meh. The other tubes should be better - providing they work (maybe that's why he sent you three).
> What's the deal with the "dead tube"? Maybe we can help troubleshoot…



I will try it again when I cycle through. I just wanted to concentrate on one amp, one tube and one headphone non-stop to get a feel for the amp.

Soon I will start experimenting with different stuff. 
But first I need to compare amps. I got some Y cables recently and want to compare against the Liquid Spark and the Burson Fun-Classic.

Then I will start comparing tubes. You have definitely piqued my interest on the other tubes.

Shane D


----------



## MaskedRacerX

I'm still having a blast with mine - my audio chain:  Mac Mini ('18) >> USB >> Modi 3 >> Vali 2

I was using the optical in the headphone jack from my MBP '15, but the newer Macs lost that feature, however, the Modi 3 has pretty excellent USB implementation.

The Vali 2 has a tube swapped from the stocker to an Electro Harmonix 6922 / E88CC (balanced).

I split my listening between my Sennheiser HD-6XX and some Edifier 1280T near field speakers here at my desk.  I occasionally feed the Vali 2 the analog from a Teac P650 CD player (it has such a terrific DAC, I haven't gone optical with it).

Shameless plug:  I kind of want to sell my HD-6XX for some closed cans, at this point I sort of want total isolation, or I'll just use my speakers. 

I scored both my pieces of Schiit (no, it never gets old ...) as refurbs, so I'm into it, including the replacement tube __and__ some socket savers, for under $250.  Astounding performance for that price!

I'm going to add a Loki - yes, an EQ - as soon as I see them on refurb again ($99, another steal).


----------



## Shane D

MaskedRacerX said:


> I'm still having a blast with mine - my audio chain:  Mac Mini ('18) >> USB >> Modi 3 >> Vali 2
> 
> I was using the optical in the headphone jack from my MBP '15, but the newer Macs lost that feature, however, the Modi 3 has pretty excellent USB implementation.
> 
> ...



Loki is awsome, even at full price! I have never seen one for sale used.

Shane D


----------



## Shane D (Oct 20, 2019)

Did some comparing today.
ZX300 DAP feeding SMSL SU-8 DAC
RCA Y cable out feeding Vali 2 and Liquid Spark. Amps were volume matched to less than half a decible.

Both sounded very good, but different. My impression was:
1) The Vali 2 was really pushing the vocals out front, which I really enjoyed. Good full sound, with the vocals dominant.

I was playing about 10 songs from Florence and the Machine that I know very well (about 7 ALAC and 3 AAC). I was even changing the jack in the middle of songs. It was intense A-B testing, for me.

Once I started using the Liquid Spark the difference was noticeable. Mostly, the added/prominant bass. Very nice.  With the rest of the music though it all sounded very "even". What I mean by that is that every instrument, including vocals, sounded like it was the exact same distance from me with the exact same volume and prominence. Not sure how to explain it, except that it seemed more balanced. You could hear, clearly, whatever instrument you wanted to concentrate on. Nothing was dominant, but the bass on certain songs kicked in with authority.

Two different sounds, but I liked both very much. If I had to decide which one to keep, I would be screwed. This may change when Jazz, Blues and varied Rock are tossed into the mix.

Now I am listening to the Westinghouse tube. Sounds pretty similar. I am not sure how much difference I will hear between tubes.

Still feeling pretty good about this purchase.

Shane D

PS: Forgot to mention - Grado GH2 headphones used.


----------



## Keno18 (Oct 20, 2019)

Shane D said:


> Did some comparing today.
> ZX300 DAP feeding SMSL SU-8 DAC
> RCA Y cable out feeding Vali 2 and Liquid Spark. Amps were volume matched to less than half a decible.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you are about ready to try tubes that require adapters like the 6sn7 or 5670 families. Big upgrade in sound.


----------



## Shane D

Keno18 said:


> Sounds like you are about ready to try tubes that require adapters like the 6sn7 or 5670 families. Big upgrade in sound.



Is it really though? Or just a subtle difference in sound?

Shane D


----------



## Keno18

Shane D said:


> Is it really though? Or just a subtle difference in sound?
> 
> Shane D


That depends on you. My experience wasn't subtle. It eventually led me to buying a 6sn7 based additional amp.


----------



## Shane D

Keno18 said:


> That depends on you. My experience wasn't subtle. It eventually led me to buying a 6sn7 based additional amp.



I need to find a tube seller in Canada. I am almost through this thread and then I'll start the tube rolling thread.

Shane D


----------



## Keno18

Shane D said:


> I need to find a tube seller in Canada. I am almost through this thread and then I'll start the tube rolling thread.
> 
> Shane D


There is a Vali 2 tube rolling thread, I'm sure there are members who can recommend one for you. There's also the Reference 6sn7 Thread. That one is particularly busy lately.


----------



## senorx12562

Shane D said:


> Is it really though? Or just a subtle difference in sound?
> 
> Shane D



Fwiw, spending a schiit load of $ on tube rolling with the Vali is folly. You are better off saving your $ and buying a better amp. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy mine for what it is, but what it is is a budget hybrid amp the limitations of which will not be fixed by tube-rolling. Of course many disagree. You will find a bunch in the tube-rolling thread of course. Have fun.


----------



## Shane D

senorx12562 said:


> Fwiw, spending a schiit load of $ on tube rolling with the Vali is folly. You are better off saving your $ and buying a better amp. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy mine for what it is, but what it is is a budget hybrid amp the limitations of which will not be fixed by tube-rolling. Of course many disagree. You will find a bunch in the tube-rolling thread of course. Have fun.



I agree totally. I might buy a cheap tube or two. Or maybe one better $45.00 tube.
After that, if I was still a big fan, time to get a Lyr 3.

Shane D


----------



## Keno18

senorx12562 said:


> Fwiw, spending a schiit load of $ on tube rolling with the Vali is folly. You are better off saving your $ and buying a better amp. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy mine for what it is, but what it is is a budget hybrid amp the limitations of which will not be fixed by tube-rolling. Of course many disagree. You will find a bunch in the tube-rolling thread of course. Have fun.


But you don't have to spend that much. Get recommdations from the threads, like a recommendation for a 6sn7 type which has a very strong history. I did that with the Tung-Sol 6sn7gt mouse ears, they fit my budget and sonic requirements. So I stocked up have about 5 years worth for a nice consistent sound for the long haul. Don't buy willy-nilly, Do research first.


----------



## Mr Trev

Shane D said:


> I agree totally. I might buy a cheap tube or two. Or maybe one better $45.00 tube.
> After that, if I was still a big fan, time to get a Lyr 3.
> 
> Shane D



That's a pretty good idea, and one I've pretty much adopted - except I have more than a tube or 2…
Personally, I find there's a much bigger difference switching between tube families - say going from a 6dj8 to a 6cg7, than trying to compare different 6dj8s. Get a good example (or 2) of each family, and most importantly, don't spend more on a tube than you did for the amp.


----------



## Shane D

Mr Trev said:


> That's a pretty good idea, and one I've pretty much adopted - except I have more than a tube or 2…
> Personally, I find there's a much bigger difference switching between tube families - say going from a 6dj8 to a 6cg7, than trying to compare different 6dj8s. Get a good example (or 2) of each family, and most importantly, don't spend more on a tube than you did for the amp.



I would not go much over $50.00. Maybe $75.00, but I doubt it.

Shane D


----------



## Shane D

Shane D said:


> Did some comparing today.
> ZX300 DAP feeding SMSL SU-8 DAC
> RCA Y cable out feeding Vali 2 and Liquid Spark. Amps were volume matched to less than half a decible.
> 
> ...



Same set-up today except that the Liquid Spark was replaced by a Burson Fun-Classic.

V2 has more bass than the Burson and sounds a bit livelier. I was running many Trombone Shorty songs (in AAC).

I am again impressed. At least initially.

Shane D


----------



## tafens

Mr Trev said:


> That's a pretty good idea, and one I've pretty much adopted - except I have more than a tube or 2…
> Personally, I find there's a much bigger difference switching between tube families - say going from a 6dj8 to a 6cg7, than trying to compare different 6dj8s. Get a good example (or 2) of each family, and most importantly, don't spend more on a tube than you did for the amp.



Different brands in the same family can make a difference as well, I’m sure @bcowen can fill you in on the sonic qualities of GE tubes


----------



## Mr Trev

tafens said:


> Different brands in the same family can make a difference as well, I’m sure @bcowen can fill you in on the sonic qualities of GE tubes



I try not to mention GE around him. I'd hate to have his head explode…


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> Different brands in the same family can make a difference as well, I’m sure @bcowen can fill you in on the sonic qualities of GE tubes



LOL!  GE's are easy to describe: meh.  That's the only one-word description I can come up with that the forum won't convert into ****.


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> I try not to mention GE around him. I'd hate to have his head explode…



Your consideration is greatly appreciated.  And will certainly result in less risk of a gross mess.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Your consideration is greatly appreciated.  And will certainly result in less risk of a gross mess.



Hey, it's the least I could do…


----------



## Joe Garfield (Dec 27, 2019)

What a drippy little amp! I just got mine today. I’ve been evaluating amps and DACs for a week. Listening to the same tracks with Vali, I’m dimming the lights yet everything is covered in a warm glow, I feel wet, and I just busted out dancing which hasn’t happened in quite awhile! There’s no marking on the stock tube, but I’m wondering if it’s maybe a PCP tube?

Tomorrow I’ll get to do side-by-side with different combinations of Modi, Magni, Mimby, and Vali (and HD650.)


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Drippy or trippy? Meh, it’s good either way. I love my little toaster and am looking forward to re-integrating it into my nook.


----------



## Joe Garfield

Drippy - as in wet


----------



## Joe Garfield (Dec 27, 2019)

Well after hearing different genres I’m not so thrilled with Vali and stock tube. I like the overall tone/color but seem to be losing instruments and details in the mix. Particularly pianos being artificially warmed, and hand drums losing upper end details. Interestingly, music with warm piano lead sounds lush, but brighter piano supporting other instruments sounds way too artificially colored and warm.

Hopefully another tube will help. So for now, Magni is still the deal of the century.


----------



## Joe Garfield (Dec 28, 2019)

So, uh, yeah - changing the tube makes a difference.

I got a $35 Amperex Orange Globe, made in Holland. I preferred my Magni with the stock tube, and the Vali with this tube. It’s very musical with great depth, rich mids without too much color, nice deep bass and seemingly pretty accurate all around.

I don’t or didn’t want to spend a ton on tubes with a $150 amp. At the same time it’s a good way to explore tube options before getting in deeper. I’ve got HD650s and hear the Bottlehead Crack is a great pairing. I wasn’t sure I’d like the tube sound so I started with Vali. Vali is half the cost but BH is also a time investment.


----------



## Joe Garfield

Have many people tried 6N1P tubes in the Vali 2? Some websites list them as interchangeable with 6BZ7 or 6DJ8:
_*"Except for higher heater-current consumption, it is a direct plug-in replacement for the 6DJ8, ECC88 or 6922 in most high-level audio applications." - *Svetlana 6N1P Specification
_
Schiit said on another forum that the current is (but barely) within the specs of the Vali, but they hadn't tried it or know what it would sound like. I'm curious how doubling the heater current would affect the amp long term.


----------



## bcowen

Joe Garfield said:


> Have many people tried 6N1P tubes in the Vali 2? Some websites list them as interchangeable with 6BZ7 or 6DJ8:
> _*"Except for higher heater-current consumption, it is a direct plug-in replacement for the 6DJ8, ECC88 or 6922 in most high-level audio applications." - *Svetlana 6N1P Specification
> _
> Schiit said on another forum that the current is (but barely) within the specs of the Vali, but they hadn't tried it or know what it would sound like. I'm curious how doubling the heater current would affect the amp long term.



People have been doubling the heater current in their Vali's for quite some time by plugging in 6SN7's. Haven't seen any issues reported...


----------



## ScubaMan2017

bcowen said:


> People have been doubling the heater current in their Vali's for quite some time by plugging in 6SN7's. Haven't seen any issues reported...


I've tried it. _My Valhalla tubes will fit into the Vali. Ideal? Meh. I'll stick with 6SN7 and adaptors_.


----------



## Mr Trev (Jan 19, 2020)

bcowen said:


> People have been doubling the heater current in their Vali's for quite some time by plugging in 6SN7's. Haven't seen any issues reported...



The 6sn7 are still in the spec range for the heater current the Vali2 can crank out - have yet to see what'd happen if some one plugs in a stupid high current tube - like a proper cv181.
Actually, it's kind of surprising that the cheapest Schiit is probably one of the most diverse for tube rolling variants.

For the record, my Vali2 (and my ears) has been chugging along quite happily using ecc40s


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> The 6sn7 are still in the spec range for the heater current the Vali2 can crank out - have yet to see what'd happen if some one plugs in a stupid high current tube - like a proper cv181.
> Actually, it's kind of surprising that the cheapest Schiit is probably one of the most diverse for tube rolling variants.
> 
> For the record, my Vali2 (and my ears) has been chugging along quite happily using ecc40s



Ever tried an ECC84?  I have a Valvo here that is very nice in some areas but falls flat (_really_ flat) in a couple others.  Valvo's of several different types have never been one of my personal favorites, so I don't know if it's the brand or the type. Have some Telefunkens incoming and it'll be interesting to see how they do.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Ever tried an ECC84?  I have a Valvo here that is very nice in some areas but falls flat (_really_ flat) in a couple others.  Valvo's of several different types have never been one of my personal favorites, so I don't know if it's the brand or the type. Have some Telefunkens incoming and it'll be interesting to see how they do.



I don't think I've even heard of an ECC84. I do have a Tele ECC189. Sounds good when it's not being temperamental - seems the variable mu trips the Vali2 up. Works good in my Little Bear tho…


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> I don't think I've even heard of an ECC84. I do have a Tele ECC189. Sounds good when it's not being temperamental - seems the variable mu trips the Vali2 up. Works good in my Little Bear tho…



It's a bit funky, especially with the pinout. Ratings are compatible though. The Valvo has a _really_ gorgeous midrange, but the bass is weirded out. Perhaps the Tele will be better, or perhaps this tube type just isn't meant to be with the Vali. Couldn't resist trying it as they're cheap, and good ol' Xuling even has an adapter for it on Ebay.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

Hey everyone! I've been reading a lot of this thread. I got my Vali 2 yesterday. I have a Magni 3 as well. I bought both from Schiit's B stock / discontinued stuff. Actually got a Fulla 2 from there as well. I couldn't pass up the Vail 2 for $99.
Anyways..... Did a quick listen last night to each. From a very quick initial listen I like the Vali better although it does have more treble than I'd like. And interestingly the Vali 2 goes louder than the Magni 3. Not much but definitely noticeable. I emailed Schiit to ask about it since the Magni 3 has more power in the specs.


----------



## Shane D

oakparkmusicguy said:


> Hey everyone! I've been reading a lot of this thread. I got my Vali 2 yesterday. I have a Magni 3 as well. I bought both from Schiit's B stock / discontinued stuff. Actually got a Fulla 2 from there as well. I couldn't pass up the Vail 2 for $99.
> Anyways..... Did a quick listen last night to each. From a very quick initial listen I like the Vali better although it does have more treble than I'd like. And interestingly the Vali 2 goes louder than the Magni 3. Not much but definitely noticeable. I emailed Schiit to ask about it since the Magni 3 has more power in the specs.



Congrats on your purchase! The Vali 2 is a nice amp although I don't find it very tubey at all. It sounds to me like a very nice SS amp. Which is a little disappointing to me as I have several nice SS amps.

Do you prefer the sound over the Magni?


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

So far I do like the Vali better. There is something different about it than the Magni. But I'm waiting a while until I do a lot more listening before I can really nail down specifics. Yeah, with just one tube I'm not expecting a huge tube factor experience. But that's cool. For $100 it's fun to play with. I also ordered some tubes that people seem to like.
I'm really surprised that the Vali had a higher total volume output than the Magni. I'm still waiting for a reply from Schiit. I don't think there's any issue with my Magni. I listened through Sennheiser 58X & 6XX... Also tried my AKG 7XX which have been on the shelf for a while. I also have a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro (80 ohm) that I haven't tried yet. I'm not a fan of too much treble so I tend to default to my Sennheisers.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

Alright! I did some A/B testing. 
Signal chain was this: uncompressed files on macbook -> Fulla 2 -> SYS -> Vali 2 / Magni 3 -> Mackie Mixer -> Sennheiser 58X & 6XX
Stock tube.
I used the headphone outs on both and with the SYS I could immediately switch back & forth.
I spent some time matching volumes. I also tried them with the Magni louder so I wouldn't be volume biased (since I liked the Vali better)
I listened to Nine Inch Nails (always my go-to for testing), random rock songs, Bach Cello Suite 3 performed by Richard Tunnicliffe, & Brahms Symphony 1
I won't make any claims about my ears but I do trust them and have two degrees in music.... so there's that 

Winner: Vali 2
However they are close enough that I'd tell someone to just get whatever's on sale or fits their rig / preference. They're both great and worth worrying about which one to get.

The Vali sounded clearer with a touch more bass. There was some more clarity in the higher frequencies. Subtle. 
It's like the Magni has a flat and neutral frequency response... But with the Vali it's like someone just turned up the "clarity knob".... or to be more specific just decreased a frequency somewhere in the 175 - 250 region and then just turned the treble up one notch.

If I wasn't going right back and forth I probably wouldn't notice. Both sound great.

The Vali 2 has slightly more gain - and Schiit confirmed this. Vali goes louder. I was surprised. Of course both go more than loud enough.

Anyways... just my thoughts... Haven't spent that long with them...I have some tubes on the way so right now I don't have any tube comparisons.


----------



## Keno18

oakparkmusicguy said:


> Alright! I did some A/B testing.
> Signal chain was this: uncompressed files on macbook -> Fulla 2 -> SYS -> Vali 2 / Magni 3 -> Mackie Mixer -> Sennheiser 58X & 6XX
> Stock tube.
> I used the headphone outs on both and with the SYS I could immediately switch back & forth.
> ...


Wait till you try the other tubes.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

I forgot to include the $20 headphone amp from Amazon. Will compare that tomorrow. Now to enjoy the sounds....


----------



## bcowen

oakparkmusicguy said:


> Alright! I did some A/B testing.
> Signal chain was this: uncompressed files on macbook -> Fulla 2 -> SYS -> Vali 2 / Magni 3 -> Mackie Mixer -> Sennheiser 58X & 6XX
> Stock tube.
> I used the headphone outs on both and with the SYS I could immediately switch back & forth.
> ...



Before the price on these goes to the moon (or they disappear altogether), consider grabbing a couple and trying one of them in the Vali. They rank right in there with a 50's Telefunken 6DJ8 to my ears, and the Tele's ARE to the moon when or if you can find them.  The Tele has a different sound, but it and this Brimar are my (personal) top two un-adaptered tubes in the Vali.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Matche...370507?hash=item54733908cb:g:0wEAAOSwOTZdO5Hy


----------



## bcowen

oakparkmusicguy said:


> Hey everyone! I've been reading a lot of this thread. I got my Vali 2 yesterday. I have a Magni 3 as well. I bought both from Schiit's B stock / discontinued stuff. Actually got a Fulla 2 from there as well. I couldn't pass up the Vail 2 for $99.
> Anyways..... Did a quick listen last night to each. From a very quick initial listen I like the Vali better although it does have more treble than I'd like. And interestingly the Vali 2 goes louder than the Magni 3. Not much but definitely noticeable. I emailed Schiit to ask about it since the Magni 3 has more power in the specs.



Oh, and welcome!! Kinda shoulda said that first.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

bcowen said:


> Oh, and welcome!! Kinda shoulda said that first.


Thank you!


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

I’ll pick up those tubes. Thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

Just spent some time comparing the Vali 2 to a $23 Prostar amp from Amazon. I'd bet many people couldn't tell the difference!! Vali 2 is clearer but damn they are too close. Gonna try some new tubes later.


----------



## Shotland

You guys might dig this. I just "modded" my Vali 2 by putting duct seal around the LED inside so it doesn't leak any light into the chassis. The light that would come out from the heat vent cutouts always bugged me so I first tried electrical tape, but this worked way better.


----------



## Mr Trev

Shotland said:


> You guys might dig this. I just "modded" my Vali 2 by putting duct seal around the LED inside so it doesn't leak any light into the chassis. The light that would come out from the heat vent cutouts always bugged me so I first tried electrical tape, but this worked way better.



I fiddled around doing that for a while until I finally got p---ed off and ripped the LED out completely. It wasn't until after that that I found out there is a thing called liquid electrical tape.
Oh well, at least there's nothing disturbing the lovely glow of the tube now.


----------



## Shotland

Haha, you just ripped it out completely? Why not solder in a lower power one and cover the back with liquid electrical tape?


----------



## Mr Trev

Shotland said:


> Haha, you just ripped it out completely? Why not solder in a lower power one and cover the back with liquid electrical tape?



Mostly because I'm lazy. And the tube is a good enough power light on its own.

Actually back when I first got the amp and was looking for suggestions on how to deal with the death ray, I had a suggestion that I should solder a pot on one leg of the LED. That would make the brightness adjustable. Great idea, but I don't have access to any electrical supply shops where I live and the shipping costs are way too high just to buy one online. Once I get enough of a shopping list together to justify the shipping I'll put a LED back in - probably orange, so it matches the tube glow


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Mostly because I'm lazy. And the tube is a good enough power light on its own.
> 
> Actually back when I first got the amp and was looking for suggestions on how to deal with the death ray, I had a suggestion that I should solder a pot on one leg of the LED. That would make the brightness adjustable. Great idea, but I don't have access to any electrical supply shops where I live and the shipping costs are way too high just to buy one online. Once I get enough of a shopping list together to justify the shipping I'll put a LED back in - probably orange, so it matches the tube glow



I'm even lazier.  I just used a black Sharpie marker.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> I'm even lazier.  I just used a black Sharpie marker.



Tried that. Kept scraping the ink off trying to get the damn LED aligned with the opening in the case. And it still wasn't enough to keep it from lighting the inside of the amp.
Maybe I was just too lazy to try and do a good job.


----------



## Shotland

Mr Trev said:


> Tried that. Kept scraping the ink off trying to get the damn LED aligned with the opening in the case. And it still wasn't enough to keep it from lighting the inside of the amp.
> Maybe I was just too lazy to try and do a good job.



Hah, I tried that for the front just to dim it, but it didn't seem to do much.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

oakparkmusicguy said:


> Hey everyone! I've been reading a lot of this thread. I got my Vali 2 yesterday. I have a Magni 3 as well. I bought both from Schiit's B stock / discontinued stuff. Actually got a Fulla 2 from there as well. I couldn't pass up the Vail 2 for $99.
> Anyways..... Did a quick listen last night to each. From a very quick initial listen I like the Vali better although it does have more treble than I'd like. And interestingly the Vali 2 goes louder than the Magni 3. Not much but definitely noticeable. I emailed Schiit to ask about it since the Magni 3 has more power in the specs.


Welcome to the thread, @oakparkmusicguy {{{_btw, we have family in that neck of Chicago... nice neighbourhood. I still remember visiting when that last BIG cohort of cicadas crawled up the trees. Oy_}}}. *I love my little toaster *(Vali 2). I went the foolish route and purchased a socket saver & 6922-6SN7 converter. I now have a phallic JJ Electronics tube jutting out of my Vali. Sure, I purchased a Valhalla 2 and Asgard 2 {{{{_ooooh, yeah. Those big knobs}}_}}; however, my Magni & Vali are an excellent pairing that I still revisit. 

My only criticism would be the Vali 2's big-ass wall wart. Now, I'd* like* to to have that all in one case (and thus making its MRSP more expensive). I could pick up a Lyr3. But I don't like all-in-one cases. The more brushed aluminum boxes littering my listening nook, the better. 

My B-stock Fulla sits in my office and has helped my mood whenever I'm marking student work. Other than having a _*slightly*_ scratchy volume dial, I'm pleased with it.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Welcome to the thread, @oakparkmusicguy {{{_btw, we have family in that neck of Chicago... nice neighbourhood. I still remember visiting when that last BIG cohort of cicadas crawled up the trees. Oy_}}}. *I love my little toaster *(Vali 2). I went the foolish route and purchased a socket saver & 6922-6SN7 converter. I now have a phallic JJ Electronics tube jutting out of my Vali. Sure, I purchased a Valhalla 2 and Asgard 2 {{{{_ooooh, yeah. Those big knobs}}_}}; however, my Magni & Vali are an excellent pairing that I still revisit.
> 
> My only criticism would be the Vali 2's big-ass wall wart. Now, I'd* like* to to have that all in one case (and thus making its MRSP more expensive). I could pick up a Lyr3. But I don't like all-in-one cases. The more brushed aluminum boxes littering my listening nook, the better.
> 
> My B-stock Fulla sits in my office and has helped my mood whenever I'm marking student work. Other than having a _*slightly*_ scratchy volume dial, I'm pleased with it.



Thanks! Oak Park is a nice area. I didn't grow up around but ended up here quite a while ago.
I got most of my Schiit gear from B stocks. Great deals! My Fulla has a scratchy pot as well but since it doesn't affect anything when stationary I forgot about it. I think some of the pots do that as well. I agree about the wall wart. But for getting a great little amp for $99 I'm ok with it .

Ok... so for some Vali 2 and tube rolling impressions
Definitely like the Vali 2 better than the Magni. But definitely keeping the Magni.
I've tried:

stock tube (numbers rubbed off first time I took it out so no idea what it is)
--- sounds just fine and you can stick with it and be happy

EH 6922
--- too much treble and mine hissed when plugging in headphones or if my fingers got near it or touched it. sent it back right away

EH 6CG7
--- bigger tube looks cool. sounds good. perhaps too thick sounding detracting from clarity but that could be a quality you're looking for

GE5670 high gain ( & and adapter)
--- need to do some more listening but whoah there is a lot of gain on this one. MUCH louder than the Magni.


----------



## Shotland

oakparkmusicguy said:


> GE5670 high gain ( & and adapter)
> --- need to do some more listening but whoah there is a lot of gain on this one. MUCH louder than the Magni.



I just snagged the WE396a (same construction as that GE5670) and I love it. Curious to hear how you like the GE over time. big price difference between the two tubes.


----------



## bcowen (Feb 8, 2020)

oakparkmusicguy said:


> Thanks! Oak Park is a nice area. I didn't grow up around but ended up here quite a while ago.
> I got most of my Schiit gear from B stocks. Great deals! My Fulla has a scratchy pot as well but since it doesn't affect anything when stationary I forgot about it. I think some of the pots do that as well. I agree about the wall wart. But for getting a great little amp for $99 I'm ok with it .
> 
> Ok... so for some Vali 2 and tube rolling impressions
> ...



Early indications would suggest that you have fully succumbed to TRA (tube rolling addiction). On the negative side, there is no known cure. On the positive side, you're in good company. LOL!

EH branded tubes (most, if not all of Russian origin) have never done much for me. I've tried several different types, and none of them have provided any musical satisfaction. GE _branded_ tubes can be quite good as long as they weren't actually made by GE.  Telltale sign is the etched dots in the glass. Hard to see below, but if your 5670 has these dots, it was (unfortunately) made by GE:






As @Shotland mentioned the WE 396A, that's my favorite of this particular tube family. Expensive though. The Sylvania 2C51 is quite good also, and much less expensive than the WE. Here's one too that could be quite good, although I haven't ever heard one. Price is quite nice though:






On the 6CG7, consider an RCA clear top / side getter. Still plentiful and inexpensive, and while not the end game of 6CG7 types, it's a _very _nice sounding tube for cheap. Note that my comments are based on my own experience and more importantly, my own preferences. Yours may be entirely different, and of course there is no right or wrong either way. What sounds best to you is best, period.  I will go out on a limb though and say that ANY tube you use in place of the GE (especially if it's a dotted, made by GE, um, GE) will be a marked improvement.  They're cheap for a reason. LOL!

Edit: this forum update is an absolute train wreck. Forget emoticons...they hose everything up. Tried to post a link to the above Ebay ad, and it wipes half the text off the right side of the page.  Geez Louise...


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

GE5670 - good with both Sennheiser 6XX & 58X-  different mids on each headphones with their different profiles which affect vocal clarity slightly.

Stock tube: not a bad tube at all.. fairly cleaer, tiny bit of distortion in the mids present in both headphones

EH6CG7 - hrm... liking it more... paired amazing with HD58X and not so much with 6XX

Listened to Nine Inch Nails and Tchaikovsky Symphony #4 3rd movement. I deliberately choose Nine Inch Nails because his layers are very distinct and tend to align with Lows, Low Mids, Mids, Highs. I chose the pizzicato movement to hear the clarity and attack of the plucked string.

My dilemma is I use the amp more for gaming than music.

Conclusions:
- headphones make much more difference
- using a Loki (not during testing) can make things do whatever you want
- tube rolling IS a lot of fun and tubes are different. I want to get a giant tube with adapters just for aestethics
- I like the Vali 2 better than Magni. Still like and am keeping my Magni
- a super cheap portable amp is not as bad as people think.... but not as good as the Schiit amps
- I like the Fulla 2
- Buying B-stock items from Schiit really cranks up the bang to buck ratio


----------



## oakparkmusicguy (Feb 8, 2020)

@bcowen - yep!! definitely having fun with the tube rolling... and I do have the dotted GE.
I also do enjoy swapping out tubes as well as my headphones.. My ears enjoy the different flavors... Then again I like both Starbucks AND Dunkin coffee. Crazy.

Oh and that tube you listed has a discount on it right now. So I bought it


----------



## bcowen

oakparkmusicguy said:


> - tube rolling IS a lot of fun and tubes are different. I want to get a giant tube with adapters just for aestethics



Here you go.  May need a custom adapter though....


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

That is perfect!!!


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Early indications would suggest that you have fully succumbed to TRA (tube rolling addiction). On the negative side, there is no known cure. On the positive side, you're in good company. LOL!
> 
> EH branded tubes (most, if not all of Russian origin) have never done much for me. I've tried several different types, and none of them have provided any musical satisfaction. GE _branded_ tubes can be quite good as long as they weren't actually made by GE.  Telltale sign is the etched dots in the glass. Hard to see below, but if your 5670 has these dots, it was (unfortunately) made by GE:
> 
> ...



I wholeheartedly agree on the RCA cleartop, but now you have me wondering: What is your end game 6cg7?
So far I've only bought the cleartop. I keep meaning to get some more, so far the best adapterless sound I've stumbled across

I also agree with the forum update. I hate it when people change things just for the sake of change.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

also.... i like the 6CG7 without any EQ


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> I wholeheartedly agree on the RCA cleartop, but now you have me wondering: What is your end game 6cg7?
> So far I've only bought the cleartop. I keep meaning to get some more, so far the best adapterless sound I've stumbled across
> 
> I also agree with the forum update. I hate it when people change things just for the sake of change.



End game?  Easy.  This with the nice dots:





LOL!  Yes, of course I'm kidding.  Not sure I've found an ultimate end game in a 6CG7. I have Sylvanias, Raytheons, EI's, RCA's (both clear top and top getter), but the one I like best in my Alana preamp is the long plate Amperex (on the right). The short plate one on the left is OK, but easily bettered by the long plate version (qualitative difference similar to an RCA clear top versus a chrome dome). But I honestly haven't done a lot of rolling with this tube in the Vali...basically just the RCA and the Amperex. I like the Amperex better in the Vali than the RCA, but it's not a huge difference and the long plate Amperexes are hard to find anymore.


----------



## Mr Trev

Sweet. I'll have to add them to my list, along with the Tele 6dj8 and Brimar 6bz7.
Ever heard a Matsu 6cg7? The 7dj8 they do sounds decent enough

I was going to grab the Bangy mystery bag of tubes. For $260 what could go wrong…
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/6-Vintage-M...Radio-Tube-Valve-BangyBang-Tubes/303346512334

I also though about this one too. 100 tubes? One of them has to sound good
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/100-NIB-6CG7-6FQ7-Tubes-USA-RCA-GE-SYLVANIA/283743587108


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Sweet. I'll have to add them to my list, along with the Tele 6dj8 and Brimar 6bz7.
> Ever heard a Matsu 6cg7? The 7dj8 they do sounds decent enough



Never heard a Matsu 6CG7. I have a couple of the 7DJ8's (bought from Uncle Kev) and I agree they are nice sounding. Not a Tele 6DJ8 by any means, but hardly on the same planet price-wise either.



Mr Trev said:


> I was going to grab the Bangy mystery bag of tubes. For $260 what could go wrong…
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/6-Vintage-M...Radio-Tube-Valve-BangyBang-Tubes/303346512334



ROFL!  They were probably all made by GE which is why he's selling them so cheap. But hey, $43 a piece for a $5 tube is a bargain just to have the privilege of buying from Bangy Bang!  



Mr Trev said:


> I also though about this one too. 100 tubes? One of them has to sound good
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/100-NIB-6CG7-6FQ7-Tubes-USA-RCA-GE-SYLVANIA/283743587108



Actually there's at least two that sound good.  $500 each for a pair of clear top RCA's is the worst you can do.  And there's 13 GE's in there you can send to people you hate.  LOL!





I think you should give this one a try. Maybe 6.3v is enough, just like the 7DJ8.  It's a clear top...what else is needed??


----------



## bcowen

Hmmm....wonder who made these?  Totally worth $46.  ROFL!!


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Sweet. I'll have to add them to my list, along with the Tele 6dj8 and Brimar 6bz7.
> Ever heard a Matsu 6cg7? The 7dj8 they do sounds decent enough
> 
> I was going to grab the Bangy mystery bag of tubes. For $260 what could go wrong…
> ...



I just took one for the team. The D-Getter Westinghouse 6SN7's are really nice...we'll see how their 6CG7 fares.  I know, I know...huge money. But I'm here for you guys.  LOL!

Your turn now Mr Trev.


----------



## Mr Trev

I've been told the Westies are pretty good sounding.
But you seriously underpaid. Bangy has the exact same for the low, low price of $150 (plus shipping)


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> I've been told the Westies are pretty good sounding.
> But you seriously underpaid. Bangy has the exact same for the low, low price of $150 (plus shipping)



He probably dipped the pins on his in his gold paint bath. Easily justifies the extra $143.01.


----------



## Shotland

Any cheap 6sn7 tubes you think I should give a shot? Loving my tele ecc88 and we396a. wouldn't mind more warmth!


----------



## bcowen

Shotland said:


> Any cheap 6sn7 tubes you think I should give a shot? Loving my tele ecc88 and we396a. wouldn't mind more warmth!



More warmth? 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-NIB-...839457?hash=item2f3bce4fa1:g:3ZAAAOSwkIleDB7y


----------



## Shotland

Ah, yes... I was told these were warm! Looking for something way more affordable for now. I spent all my pocket change on some other pieces of glass !


----------



## bcowen

Shotland said:


> Ah, yes... I was told these were warm! Looking for something way more affordable for now. I spent all my pocket change on some other pieces of glass !



Then I'm guessing my second suggestion isn't in the cards?  

*

*

Seriously, I don't know of any less expensive tubes that I would describe as warm.  The older RCA's (pre 1960) fit the bill as do most Mullards, but you'll be out 3X+ the price of the Vali just for one of those. Hopefully someone else can offer a suggestion...


----------



## senorx12562

oakparkmusicguy said:


> stock tube (numbers rubbed off first time I took it out so no idea what it is)
> --- sounds just fine and you can stick with it and be happy


The tube mine came with was utterly unmarked when I received it, so unless you are sure you rubbed it off, it may have come that way.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

senorx12562 said:


> The tube mine came with was utterly unmarked when I received it, so unless you are sure you rubbed it off, it may have come that way.



maybe it did. I thought I saw markings on it but I may totally be mistaken!


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

Based on just looks I had to get a 6SN7 with adapter! Got a cheap Tung-Sol to try it. Does look cool.


----------



## bcowen (Feb 16, 2020)

This Westinghouse 6CG7 sounds pretty darn good, especially for $6.    For adapterless living, it's a worthy contender IMO. A bit more detailed and dynamic than the Brimar 6BQ7A, and some nice extra punch in the bass. The Brimar is warmer sounding, and while its bass doesn't have quite the same whump it's a bit fuller and adds some nice bloom. I actually like this Westinghouse better with the Aeon 2's, but I like the Brimar better with the Massdrop HD-6XX's. The (adapted) Lansdale Frankentube 7N7 remains my personal fave in the Vali 2 with either set of 'phones, but for those not wanting to mess with adapters and looking for a bit less warmth than the Brimar and even the RCA 6CG7, this might be worth a shot if you can find one for a good price.


----------



## Mike-WI

bcowen said:


> This Westinghouse 6CG7 sounds pretty darn good, especially for $6.    For adapterless living, it's a worthy contender IMO. A bit more detailed and dynamic than the Brimar 6BQ7A, and some nice extra punch in the bass. The Brimar is warmer sounding, and while its bass doesn't have quite the same whump it's a bit fuller and adds some nice bloom. I actually like this Westinghouse better with the Aeon 2's, but I like the Brimar better with the Massdrop HD-6XX's. The (adapted) Lansdale Frankentube 7N7 remains my personal fave in the Vali 2 with either set of 'phones, but for those not wanting to mess with adapters and looking for a bit less warmth than the Brimar and even the RCA 6CG7, this might be worth a shot if you can find one for a good price.


Where did you get this $6 tube?


----------



## bcowen

Mike-WI said:


> Where did you get this $6 tube?



Ebay (screenshot several posts back). It was actually $5.845 per tube with shipping - I rounded up.


----------



## G0rt

Currently, Amperex BugleBoy ECC40, and finding it Good. Mimby->Vali2->HD660S. Via splitter cable to SYS, Mimby also drives a DIY 2-channel, better than Vali2 pre-out.


----------



## bcowen

G0rt said:


> Currently, Amperex BugleBoy ECC40, and finding it Good. Mimby->Vali2->HD660S. Via splitter cable to SYS, Mimby also drives a DIY 2-channel, better than Vali2 pre-out.



Sweet!  Have you tried any other ECC40's?  

I have a couple of these Mullards that just arrived. Now to figure out which wire goes where. Help me keep an eye out for a B-stock Vali 2, you know, just in case.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Sweet!  Have you tried any other ECC40's?
> 
> I have a couple of these Mullards that just arrived. Now to figure out which wire goes where. Help me keep an eye out for a B-stock Vali 2, you know, just in case.



Didn't the OG Vali use those type of tubes?


----------



## G0rt

bcowen said:


> Sweet!  Have you tried any other ECC40's?
> 
> I have a couple of these Mullards that just arrived. Now to figure out which wire goes where. Help me keep an eye out for a B-stock Vali 2, you know, just in case.



I have some Philips, and have my eyes on some others. I've tried them in Lyr3, Valhalla2 and Mjolnir2, all with good results. I find them quiet, detailed, good dynamics in the high gain setting.


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Didn't the OG Vali use those type of tubes?



As far as I know the original Vali used a pair of 6088's which are single element pentodes. The CV3986 (6021) is a dual triode.  Triodes rule.  For me, anyway.


----------



## Cafofo

Hi guys, I got a little problem with Vali 2 regard noise/hum. Actually I can feel/listen the noise/hum in low or even in high mode and its quite annoying....
But I could be bearing with that in the past but now I got a "new" set-up with addition of Valhalla 2.
Only using Valhalla I have no noise at all and I pretty much get used to "no noise/hum" again.
The main problem is : I was trying to play with both together and them the big problem comes out. Its like Valhalla amplifies the noise comming from Vali 2.

When Vali 2 and Valhalla 2 are connected, If I Connect my headphone to Vali output I can head/feel those noise/hum but is like in the past "annoying but ok~~~~ " 

But When it comes to Valhalla 2 the noise/hum is really annoying and I cant live with that. If outputting Vali 2 with lo-gain it gets really better but not enough yet.

Anything that I could do , any suggestions? 

Vali 2 using or 6922 from Electro-harmonix or  E88CC from JJ Electronic; Tried with the original tube but I forgot how terrible that tube is, the noise/hum got so "electrostatic", when I come with my hand near the tube it got bigger and when get far it lowers.

(set-up using a Modi 2 as DAC, Sennheiser HD 598/600/650 and Hifi-Man Ananda for listening)


----------



## Jacobh

Cafofo said:


> Hi guys, I got a little problem with Vali 2 regard noise/hum. Actually I can feel/listen the noise/hum in low or even in high mode and its quite annoying....
> But I could be bearing with that in the past but now I got a "new" set-up with addition of Valhalla 2.
> Only using Valhalla I have no noise at all and I pretty much get used to "no noise/hum" again.
> The main problem is : I was trying to play with both together and them the big problem comes out. Its like Valhalla amplifies the noise comming from Vali 2.
> ...



My Vali 2 has hum as well. It’s there no matter what tube I use (although some make it worse than others). With high impedence headphones and low gain it ranges from barely noticeable to annoying but listenable. I gave up with low impedence headphones. I bought mine used, but Schiit told me this level of hum was normal.

I also have a Valhalla 2 that is dead quiet which also feels a lot better built to me. 

I have not tried the setup of connecting them together, but are you using the headphone out or the rca out on the Vali? You could try whichever you are not using and see if it helps. You could also try adding an impedence adapter in between them.

For me the quietest tubes I’ve found for the Vali are GE5670 with an adapter. They’re inexpensive and sound good.


----------



## Old Deaf Donkey (Apr 18, 2020)

Jacobh said:


> GE5670 with an adapter. They’re inexpensive and sound good.


Oh my. Wait until @bcowen  sees this. He'll explain where the hum comes from and what it is. And, no, it is NOT the adapter...


----------



## Jacobh

Old Deaf Donkey said:


> Oh my. Wait until @bcowen  sees this. He'll explain where the hum comes from and what it is. And, no, it is NOT the adapter...



Schiit told me the hum is normal because of the design of the amplifier.  I know it’s not the adapter as I said it happens with every tube I’ve tried and I’ve tried many. The GE tubes are just the ones that have the least noticeable noise for me.


----------



## bcowen (Apr 18, 2020)

Cafofo said:


> Hi guys, I got a little problem with Vali 2 regard noise/hum. Actually I can feel/listen the noise/hum in low or even in high mode and its quite annoying....
> But I could be bearing with that in the past but now I got a "new" set-up with addition of Valhalla 2.
> Only using Valhalla I have no noise at all and I pretty much get used to "no noise/hum" again.
> The main problem is : I was trying to play with both together and them the big problem comes out. Its like Valhalla amplifies the noise comming from Vali 2.
> ...



Not sure I understand what you mean by "I was trying to play with both together."  You mean with one plugged into the other (why?), or just both of them connected in the system and powered up at the same time?  If your VH2 is quiet on its own, then we can probably rule out environmental factors (grounding, power feed, RFI / radiated EMI, etc), and if you're getting the same level/type of hum across different tubes in the Vali, it's not likely a tube problem.

I get zero hum out of my Vali 2 regardless of tube or gain setting and with either 300 ohm HD-6XX's or 13 ohm Aeon 2's. I would suggest that something has gone wrong with your Vali.  Is it still under warranty?  If so, I'd contact Schiit and send it in.  I used my Lyr 3 for almost 2 years without even the slightest hiccup, then one day it developed a hum that started at a very low level but began to increase. Contacted Schiit, they provided an RMA to send it in, and I got it back very quickly with a new main board installed and it is once again dead silent.  And contrary to paranoiac comments in some other threads, no headphones were harmed in the process.


----------



## bcowen

Old Deaf Donkey said:


> Oh my. Wait until @bcowen  sees this. He'll explain where the hum comes from and what it is. And, no, it is NOT the adapter...



All GE's hum...'cause they don't know the words.

Ugh...sorry.


----------



## Old Deaf Donkey

bcowen said:


> I get zero hum out of my Vali 2 regardless of tube or gain setting


same here.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

My Vali 2 hums with some tubes when then the volume is between 6-8. Seriously. I’ve determined it’s those tubes fault. Or mine.


----------



## Jacobh

Old Deaf Donkey said:


> same here.



That's good.  I imagine most people's amps are quieter than mine, but I know I'm not the only one whose amplifier hums since others have mentioned it on the forums.  It's not the tubes, I've tried over 10 and they all hum in the Vali and none of them hum in other amps.  Maybe I'm more sensitive to it than others or maybe there is a natural level of variance in the amount of noise due to component selection and I got unlucky.

I have contacted Schiit about it and they basically told me what I was describing is normal and didn't seem interested in answering any further questions. I have no reason to believe they lied to me about this and their trouble-shooting guide acknowledges hum is possible. I purchased my Vali second hand, and I get that they don't want to spend a lot of time answering support questions used equipment, but I have purchased multiple other things from them directly. 

I believe the issue is likely with the power supply, but the shipping fees are such that I'll wait until I have something else to order from them before ordering a replacement.


----------



## Cafofo

bcowen said:


> Not sure I understand what you mean by "I was trying to play with both together."  You mean with one plugged into the other (why?), or just both of them connected in the system and powered up at the same time?  If your VH2 is quiet on its own, then we can probably rule out environmental factors (grounding, power feed, RFI / radiated EMI, etc), and if you're getting the same level/type of hum across different tubes in the Vali, it's not likely a tube problem.
> 
> I get zero hum out of my Vali 2 regardless of tube or gain setting and with either 300 ohm HD-6XX's or 13 ohm Aeon 2's. I would suggest that something has gone wrong with your Vali.  Is it still under warranty?  If so, I'd contact Schiit and send it in.  I used my Lyr 3 for almost 2 years without even the slightest hiccup, then one day it developed a hum that started at a very low level but began to increase. Contacted Schiit, they provided an RMA to send it in, and I got it back very quickly with a new main board installed and it is once again dead silent.  And contrary to paranoiac comments in some other threads, no headphones were harmed in the process.




By "playing with them together" I mean use the Vali as a "pre-amp"/another-stage using the output RCA to VH and connecting the headphone into the VH.
Why? Just to try out how it goes, if I can get anything different using a set-up like that....
I agree with you regard as VH2 is quiet probably I dont have any problem like grounding or something and also I have the hum with the Vali2 isolated regardless the gain mode with all headphones I said which has different range of impedance.

I tried to measure if the metal case is grounded or something but it seens like. I could get low resistence between the Metal Case and the 4 RCA. But I could not get from any of 4 pins from Power Source(idk why). Probably its not in warranty I have it for 2 or 3 years I dont remember. But when I first get it I contacted them and they said it was normal(at that time I had only HD598 which I could feel the hum even more than the other "new" high impedance headphones) and I remember searching on foruns people saying they had it too. By the way I could not even send them the Vali 'cause Im not in USA, Im in Brazil so it becomes really difficult and expensive to do. That's why I came here trying my luck with you guys hahaha !

For sure my "main" is VH2 which I do love but if I could "gain" something different/interesting from Vali using it as a pre-stage of VH could be interesting as far as I already have it(yet...) but amplifiying the hum It becomes really unusable.


----------



## adktitan

Hope all is well with everyone - I guess we have lots of time to listen to music eh? Anyway, I ordered this as my first tube amp (hybrid, but still) and have been listening for the past two days using the stock tube and I gotta say, its better then I expected. I am using JH Roxannes, and for full sizer's Denon AHD7000 and as both are super easy to drive anyway, the amp sounds great. Zero hum, zero microphonics, just total awesomeness. I just ordered a new JJ E88CC gold pin tube and I'm looking forward to hearing if there is any difference between the tubes and start the rabbit hole of tube rolling. I also ordered a Modi3 at the same time, so the pairing is perfect for my needs and doesn't break the bank. Anyway, thanks to all for the thread action on this, it helped me make my decision easy and my ears thank you as well - Have a good day.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

Different tubes do make an audible difference. I find the tube rolling more of a fun side hobby rather than thinking of them as eq. If you want a huge difference then a Loki eq is great (I have 2 and love them).

Different tubes also sound different on different setups. I have a tube that I don’t like with my headphones but it sounded really good with my speakers.

I would try different tube types first rather than different ones within the same type.

Regardless - have fun and enjoy!!


----------



## adktitan

Cool- thanks for the feedback - 

This sentence "I would try different tube types first rather than different ones within the same type" is of interest to me because I have NO IDEA what kind of tube came with the Vali 2. Its not marked anywhere on it. Somewhere in this thread, or the tube rolling thread I saw one post that had similar experiences, but his said "CAD" or something - mine is blank, just a clear tune so I honestly don't know what family Im starting with. I ordered a new tube becuase I had to start somewhere. 

I'm not interested in EQ so much - with my headphones, especially the Roxannes, the recording quality and the mix is really, really, evident and makes for a lot of fun to listen to music and shuffle between live music, studio recordings, etc.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

adktitan said:


> Cool- thanks for the feedback -
> 
> This sentence "I would try different tube types first rather than different ones within the same type" is of interest to me because I have NO IDEA what kind of tube came with the Vali 2. Its not marked anywhere on it. Somewhere in this thread, or the tube rolling thread I saw one post that had similar experiences, but his said "CAD" or something - mine is blank, just a clear tune so I honestly don't know what family Im starting with. I ordered a new tube becuase I had to start somewhere.
> 
> I'm not interested in EQ so much - with my headphones, especially the Roxannes, the recording quality and the mix is really, really, evident and makes for a lot of fun to listen to music and shuffle between live music, studio recordings, etc.


Mine wasn't marked either. What kind of tube did you order?
Mine favorite type has been 6CG7. I also have several 6SN7 with an adapter.


----------



## adktitan

I ordered a JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold Pin Preamp Vacuum Tube. It wasn't expensive and I thought a good place to start. The prices get pretty hefty - but I also read that the price of the tube isn't everything and not to spend more on tubes then the amp itself, so I'm starting with that one at lower price and off I go!


----------



## Mr Trev

The stock tube should be a 6bz7. Mostly a "meh" tube, although others have tried Brimars which are supposed to be good.
Other drop-in tubes are 6dj8/6922, and 6cg7. I'd recommend trying a 6cg7 firstly. I just saw you post you ordered a JJ 6922 - a good choice.
12au7, 5670, 6sn7, ecc40, will also work, but adapters are needed for those.


----------



## adktitan

Mr Trev said:


> The stock tube should be a 6bz7. Mostly a "meh" tube, although others have tried Brimars which are supposed to be good.
> Other drop-in tubes are 6dj8/6922, and 6cg7. I'd recommend trying a 6cg7 firstly. I just saw you post you ordered a JJ 6922 - a good choice.
> 12au7, 5670, 6sn7, ecc40, will also work, but adapters are needed for those.


Awesome info and thanks. That'll go into my notes; I am little gun shy about adaptors at this point, maybe later on down the line. Cheers, Kokanee.


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> The stock tube should be a 6bz7. Mostly a "meh" tube, although others have tried Brimars which are supposed to be good.
> Other drop-in tubes are 6dj8/6922, and 6cg7. I'd recommend trying a 6cg7 firstly. I just saw you post you ordered a JJ 6922 - a good choice.
> 12au7, 5670, 6sn7, ecc40, will also work, but adapters are needed for those.



Both of my Vali's came with 6BZ7's, and I think 'meh' is a great descriptor. Not bad sounding, but certainly didn't show off the Vali's true potential. I do like the Brimar (6BQ7 actually rather than 6BZ7, but the operating parameters between the two are nearly identical).  Have one of the new production JJ gold pin 6922's in there now...just haven't had the chance yet to give it a thorough listen yet. And as you and @oakparkmusicguy mentioned the 6CG7, the Westinghouse sounds really good too.


----------



## senorx12562

I certainly haven't tried all the tubes that can be used in the Vali, but in terms of sq/$, my favorite is the EH 6cg7. Surprisingly, (at least to me) I have found the Focal Elex to be a very synergistic pairing with the Vali regardless of the tube used. Can't stop listening.


----------



## Keno18

senorx12562 said:


> I certainly haven't tried all the tubes that can be used in the Vali, but in terms of sq/$, my favorite is the EH 6cg7. Surprisingly, (at least to me) I have found the Focal Elex to be a very synergistic pairing with the Vali regardless of the tube used. Can't stop listening.


I've been using the EH 6cg7 lately because I've been listening so much, I hate to burn up the Tung-Sol 6sn7s or Brimar 6bq7s. If the EH goes oh well, just buy another.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

Buy a Westinghouse or Coronado 6CG7.
Enjoy them.
Then buy an EH or JJ.
Then think, “Ahhh...Now I hear why”

or do what I did... buy way too many tubes and have fun....I don’t like any of my EH tubes...but my ‘too much treble’ is another person’s ‘mmmm... sparkle’


----------



## bcowen (May 1, 2020)

oakparkmusicguy said:


> Buy a Westinghouse or Coronado 6CG7.
> Enjoy them.
> Then buy an EH or JJ.
> Then think, “Ahhh...Now I hear why”
> ...



Ditto that.  I mean the first part. 

Quite a few Westinghouses on Ebay for less than $20...probably cheaper than an EH.  Just beware seller "peace.love.and.music" who after all this time _still_ hasn't figured out what 'minimum good' means.  Hard to understand why anyone buys anything from him (or her).










Edit:  and then there's good ol' greengirl. I've actually bought a couple tubes from her that were fine. She apparently has the only double-triode tube in existence with three plates. Maybe someone should tell her the one in the middle is a shield, not a plate. LOL!


----------



## Delirious Lab

Is this thing underrated as a preamp or what?  I'm not using headphones much these days, so today I decided to insert the Vali (stock tube) between my laptop+Modi and the speakers (Audioengine A2+) for my telework setup.  Imaging feels better than ever, and bass texture is a lot more realistic.

Your impressions on preamp Vali?


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

I'm a real fan of the Vali. I have a Magni 3, Magni 3+, and the Vali. I definitely use the Vali the most. I keep looking at the Schiit B-stocks to pick up another one.


----------



## Keno18

Delirious Lab said:


> Is this thing underrated as a preamp or what?  I'm not using headphones much these days, so today I decided to insert the Vali (stock tube) between my laptop+Modi and the speakers (Audioengine A2+) for my telework setup.  Imaging feels better than ever, and bass texture is a lot more realistic.
> 
> Your impressions on preamp Vali?


I briefly tried the Vali as a preamp a while ago but was not impressed. Less bass that way. I will give it another try.


----------



## senorx12562

Keno18 said:


> I briefly tried the Vali as a preamp a while ago but was not impressed. Less bass that way. I will give it another try.


Pretty noisy too ime.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

oakparkmusicguy said:


> Different tubes do make an audible difference. I find the tube rolling more of a fun side hobby rather than thinking of them as eq. If you want a huge difference then a Loki eq is great (I have 2 and love them).
> ....{{{snip}}}...


You have 2 Loki units?! Nice. I'm pleased with my tone control too. Whenever my audio nervosa flares up... and I'm going for that extra oomph (or less screech), Loki comes to the rescue. For me (Loki Tone Control) > (casual tube rolling).


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

2 Loki but not in the same chain. One for the living room and one for my music studio


----------



## Hashi8888

Hi,

Anyon using their Vali 2 for PC gaming and PC Music?

I would be using the motherboard’s Line or Headphone out, not sure what it has. Still waiting for the MB to arrive. It supposely has 8 channel,
Asus Rob ver. E.

Which brings up another question, do you use
the MB’s audio which has many channels/effects or do you tend to use USB external DAC which has no sound processing?


----------



## TinearedOne

Hashi8888 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anyon using their Vali 2 for PC gaming and PC Music?
> 
> ...



My Vali 2 is connected to my PC via a Modi Uber.  It works great.  I also have the Modi connected to my CD player via the optical and coax inputs.   I also have all of that connected to my turntable via a Sys.  The system works well.


----------



## PhenixS1970

Hi All.  

Eager to hear my Grado headphones with a tube amp I took the plunge and have a Vali 2 on order. Also expecting a EH 6CG7 tube.

The source will be my A&K SA700 DAP using the unbalanced output but the Line Out has different voltage options:
1. 0.7V
2. 1V
3. 1.25V
4. 2V

Any recommendation on which V to use?

Thank you very much in advance.


----------



## bcowen

PhenixS1970 said:


> Hi All.
> 
> Eager to hear my Grado headphones with a tube amp I took the plunge and have a Vali 2 on order. Also expecting a EH 6CG7 tube.
> 
> ...



Start with the 1v setting as a baseline, but try them all. Won't hurt anything, and you may find that one setting sounds better than the others.


----------



## PhenixS1970

bcowen said:


> Start with the 1v setting as a baseline, but try them all. Won't hurt anything, and you may find that one setting sounds better than the others.



Thank you very much for the advice, bcowen.


----------



## lifeisbeautiful

I posted this as a separate question. But, thought would ask it here too. How does the mass drop CTH compare to the Schiit Vali 2?
Thanks.


----------



## PhenixS1970

I just received my Vali 2 and installed the EH 6CG7.  Like what I’m hearing .  My unit doesn’t have a Led (which I read might be a good thing, lol). Did Schiit change this recently?


----------



## bcowen

PhenixS1970 said:


> I just received my Vali 2 and installed the EH 6CG7.  Like what I’m hearing .  My unit doesn’t have a Led (which I read might be a good thing, lol). Did Schiit change this recently?



Interesting. The pic on the website still shows the LED.  Did you buy it new from Schiit?


----------



## PhenixS1970

bcowen said:


> Interesting. The pic on the website still shows the LED.  Did you buy it new from Schiit?



Yes indeed, from the Schiit Europe site which is the distributor for Belgium


----------



## bcowen

PhenixS1970 said:


> Yes indeed, from the Schiit Europe site which is the distributor for Belgium



Hmmm.  Is there a hole there, or is the front solid where the LED _used _to be?  Ditching that floodlight LED wouldn't hurt my feelings any if they decided to schiitcan it.


----------



## senorx12562

Forgot how short my cable was and pulled the whole amp off of my desk. Broke the tube, but saw no damage otherwise. Next time I used it, noticed the led was very dim, but still visible. Knocked the light partway out of the hole, but it was an improvement, so haven't fixed it. Serendipitous.


----------



## PhenixS1970 (Sep 2, 2020)

bcowen said:


> Hmmm.  Is there a hole there, or is the front solid where the LED _used _to be?  Ditching that floodlight LED wouldn't hurt my feelings any if they decided to schiitcan it.



It’s a solid front  . As I raised this with the distributor they informed me that recent batches of the Magni 3+ don’t have a led either.


----------



## PhenixS1970 (Sep 2, 2020)

Really like my new (C-lockdown) homeworking setup: (added) Vali 2 (EH 6CG7 tube), A&K SA700, Grado Alessandro PRO (beautifulaudio pads and Turbulent Labs headband), AQ Big Sur RCA.


----------



## Mr Trev

PhenixS1970 said:


> It’s a solid front  . As I raised this with the distributor they informed me that recent batches of the Magni 3+ don’t have a led either.


That's good news indeed. I got so fed up with that damn LED, I ripped it out myself.
As a bonus the SQ improved… or did it


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> As a bonus the SQ improved… or did it



I bet it was a little less bright sounding?


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> I bet it was a little less bright sounding?


True.
I also didn't have to put up with moths being attracted to it anymore.


----------



## Neweymatt

PhenixS1970 said:


> Really like my new (C-lockdown) homeworking setup: (added) Vali 2 (EH 6CG7 tube), A&K SA700, Grado Alessandro PRO (beautifulaudio pads and Turbulent Labs headband), AQ Big Sur RCA.


Nice Covid rig you’ve got there.

I’ve been building out one of my own, and I’m curious your impressions using the Vali2 as amp, vs just using the SA700 standalone?

What sort of improvements, if any, do you notice?


----------



## PhenixS1970

Neweymatt said:


> Nice Covid rig you’ve got there.
> 
> I’ve been building out one of my own, and I’m curious your impressions using the Vali2 as amp, vs just using the SA700 standalone?
> 
> What sort of improvements, if any, do you notice?



Thank you very much.  The SA700 standalone is a very good player.  I prefer it to the Mojo/Poly I had before.  Adding the Vali 2 makes the sound a bit more punchier than the SA700 but without the hint of harshness I experienced with the Chord combination. It’s not a mind blowing change but for the $ of the Vali 2 I find it an effective, inexpensive tweak.


----------



## jkpenrose

Mr Trev said:


> That's good news indeed. I got so fed up with that damn LED, I ripped it out myself.
> As a bonus the SQ improved… or did it


If you think it did, or think it didn't - you're right!


----------



## RickB

I received a new Vali 2 the other day, and can confirm that the front LED is gone.


----------



## bcowen

RickB said:


> I received a new Vali 2 the other day, and can confirm that the front LED is gone.



The LED never bothered me personally, but I could also live happily without it. Sounds like Schiit made a good move.


----------



## RickB

bcowen said:


> The LED never bothered me personally, but I could also live happily without it. Sounds like Schiit made a good move.



You can tell the amp is on if the tube is glowing, so the LED always seemed pretty superfluous to me.


----------



## Keno18 (Sep 18, 2020)

Post Deleted


----------



## RickB

It's interesting how tubes burn in. I'm using a new EH 6922 that I received 6 days ago and for a few hours the treble became very rolled off and the bass very boomy. Now it's sounding more balanced again.


----------



## Keno18 (Sep 17, 2020)

RickB said:


> It's interesting how tubes burn in. I'm using a new EH 6922 that I received 6 days ago and for a few hours the treble became very rolled off and the bass very boomy. Now it's sounding more balanced again.


Balanced yes, but still not a great tube. Of the 2 6922s I have I prefer the Gold Lion.


----------



## RickB

Keno18 said:


> Balanced yes, but still not a great tube. Of the 2 6922s I have I prefer the Gold Lion.



I've had that before, I found it too soft sounding with the HD6XX.


----------



## Keno18

RickB said:


> I've had that before, I found it too soft sounding with the HD6XX.


That's the sound I prefer, the EH sounded harsh to me. But that's why there's tube rolling! Right now I'm listening to a bright sounding tube the RCA 12au7a clear top.


----------



## RickB

Keno18 said:


> That's the sound I prefer, the EH sounded harsh to me. But that's why there's tube rolling! Right now I'm listening to a bright sounding tube the RCA 12au7a clear top.



I think I'm going to settle on the EH 6CG7. It has less irritating vocals compared to the EH 6922.


----------



## bcowen

RickB said:


> I think I'm going to settle on the EH 6CG7. It has less irritating vocals compared to the EH 6922.



If you like the 6CG7, try one of these. It's the 6CG7 version of the WH D-getter 6SN7.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Westinghou...4a9eb03fe253502aecb4|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2334524


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> If you like the 6CG7, try one of these. It's the 6CG7 version of the WH D-getter 6SN7.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Westinghouse-Magnavox-6CG7-Test-NOS-Black-Plts-Silver-Shield-Serious-Tubes-L396/184318121220?_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item2aea375504:g:C4sAAOSw5W9e2d2C&amdata=enc:AQAFAAACcBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickk8Fd9si%2FIbtWQr%2BhnlRwjDUe3mcHhHxQQafihRXJn%2FYVN2MyTEBoNpRO5r7LLD2BzN33i%2B8vvA2F0EDM778MOXd5AtJpivFMOtMePBRMbZfMFqng7YNO1ITWpRgnlOhdhJZxLs0ANjVyPNgh9%2BmfPLSTKHM9NuJRzMIqkUNK%2FW2%2F%2F6QLfFtRvIJzHaxKG6PhJTtocBtEOGebKs%2FBos8Jmpw2LTPBdft30091MvQyvcYlQzUqvbQZRP5zvCFy2tZb3ipwYWVecDxe8plTca4WzWP4ktB%2BeqLdAUnFzYdCylXzpR2MzAbh%2BF9x8akGiepHZzcfM8H3SJsCay%2FFnupiBqJUQPxg8gESJVRuq44S8RzSwPtyjrbOvu8V%2BvXkUpPMaHXaNOBEbXS2ZuyRkz1riBzZTNkcRUgUkvGX8o0psekGhH3ewgL2zJZcR1Hy4Z%2FPOKXh%2Fyz7OwRPGEGLREcyFFOkEw8jlXIN5VRQ%2BfUzZ8E99eBk5WFqfjurhLkvziZYwm7FFoX%2FDcEl56n6ku71TxoqteUM2zB4JrZK8Zo1sjN27RXdFx7tamTLQSWVqcCGSnHPD8ud6%2BmSlEnbYDk85P7VXChHUZNG7suPLSRbJMGb5P0Hr8zN5Y7Ric3R%2F8HCE4IgGBpM1ULN4Fmyb4tYZDYyjjowg%2BaCDjp1K3S1K1LMtFt4pFcbdKZUN%2FAh9jbbHj69PqlBMH2lL1jkQ78phKHDBgymiIXo306Fs%2BzzKvg%2B0WGcjVdT1k1IdLEheDjwUTkW8yqNY4LHHs0%2FirY2S%2BQ%3D%3D|cksum:184318121220eee268d473c34a9eb03fe253502aecb4|ampidL_CLK|clp:2334524


I forgot about them. You picked up one didn't you? Ever get a chance to do a listening smackdown with the 6sn7?


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> I forgot about them. You picked up one didn't you? Ever get a chance to do a listening smackdown with the 6sn7?



Yeah, been a while though.  Sonic signature is very similar which comes as no surprise. The 6SN7 had a bit more weight, fullness and punch in the bass, but the 6CG7 threw up a bigger soundstage which was a bit of a surprise. Both quite enjoyable and musically engaging. The Frankie 7N7 remains my (personal) favorite and I like the Brimar 6BQ7A a lot as well, but the WH-D's (of either configuration) are up at the top of the heap of all the tubes I've rolled in the Vali 2.


----------



## RickB

Well, after a week of burning in the EH 6CG7, I'm in a pickle. I find the 6CG7 to be too muffled sounding with the HD6XX, while I think the EH 6922 is overly bright.

What current production tube is in between these two? Would a JJ E88CC fit the bill? 

I think the EH 6922 is my preference for now, until I find a better tube.


----------



## bcowen

RickB said:


> Well, after a week of burning in the EH 6CG7, I'm in a pickle. I find the 6CG7 to be too muffled sounding with the HD6XX, while I think the EH 6922 is overly bright.
> 
> What current production tube is in between these two? Would a JJ E88CC fit the bill?
> 
> I think the EH 6922 is my preference for now, until I find a better tube.



I've only heard the gold pin version of the JJ E88CC, and it's pretty decent. I (personally) like the new production Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 a bit better though. Not as bright or thin sounding as the EH (although I've never much cared for EH 9-pin tubes anyway), and has more resolution and detail than the JJ.


----------



## RickB

And now the EH 6CG7 has "opened up" and the same album I was listening to earlier doesn't sound muffled anymore...


----------



## bcowen

RickB said:


> And now the EH 6CG7 has "opened up" and the same album I was listening to earlier doesn't sound muffled anymore...



Perhaps some Q-tips are in order?  

Kidding, of course.  How much play time do you have on the 6CG7?  One thing I've experienced with most every Russian-made tube I've tried is that they need longer break-in time to fully settle in than most other tubes (with pin solder issues that can exist in octals like the 6N8S notwithstanding). May be a figment of my imagination, but if it is my imagination is pretty consistent.    Personally, I'd give that tube a good 25 hours of play time before coming to any final conclusion on its sonic character.


----------



## RickB

bcowen said:


> Perhaps some Q-tips are in order?
> 
> Kidding, of course.  How much play time do you have on the 6CG7?  One thing I've experienced with most every Russian-made tube I've tried is that they need longer break-in time to fully settle in than most other tubes (with pin solder issues that can exist in octals like the 6N8S notwithstanding). May be a figment of my imagination, but if it is my imagination is pretty consistent.    Personally, I'd give that tube a good 25 hours of play time before coming to any final conclusion on its sonic character.



Not sure how many hours, I used it for slightly longer than a week. Whether it was all the tube burning in, or some of it my brain burning in (getting used to the sound signature), it's fine now. I just had a couple of days where it sounded like it didn't have enough air and the bass was wooly/boomy on my HD6XX and it had me worried. All fixed now.


----------



## emorrison33

Just got my Vali 2 15 minutes ago.  So excited!  Question though.  I'm running my Fiio M11 DAP into the Vali 2 and then out to my headphones.  Using the LO (Line Out) setting as the output through the 4.4mm output.  What do I set the Gain? High or low? I use low when just plugging in my Grado headphones, but since I'm going into an amp, should I use the high gain setting?  When I switch it I hear absolutely no difference.  Not even sure it does anything with the Line Out setting.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

Which ever one sounds good! I always leave it on high gain. You could experiment with low gain and turning up the volume to see if it makes a difference.


----------



## senorx12562

emorrison33 said:


> Just got my Vali 2 15 minutes ago.  So excited!  Question though.  I'm running my Fiio M11 DAP into the Vali 2 and then out to my headphones.  Using the LO (Line Out) setting as the output through the 4.4mm output.  What do I set the Gain? High or low? I use low when just plugging in my Grado headphones, but since I'm going into an amp, should I use the high gain setting?  When I switch it I hear absolutely no difference.  Not even sure it does anything with the Line Out setting.


I am pretty sure the gain setting function doesn't do anything in lo mode. I believe there is a setting in the M11 to make the volume control active in line out mode, but I would set that to fixed and use the Vali's volume control. I also have a suspicion that you can only use lo mode through the 3.5mm. If you are taking the signal from the 4.4, I believe you are double amping it.


----------



## emorrison33

oakparkmusicguy said:


> Which ever one sounds good! I always leave it on high gain. You could experiment with low gain and turning up the volume to see if it makes a difference.


This is the gain on the DAP I'm talking about, not the Vali 2.  The Vali 2 I have the gain on low.  On the DAP, using the line out, the volume is maxed and I can't control the volume.  Switching the gain from low to high (or vice versa) doesn't do anything volume wise.  Just wondering if it made a difference to the amp.


----------



## emorrison33

senorx12562 said:


> I am pretty sure the gain setting function doesn't do anything in lo mode. I believe there is a setting in the M11 to make the volume control active in line out mode, but I would set that to fixed and use the Vali's volume control. I also have a suspicion that you can only use lo mode through the 3.5mm. If you are taking the signal from the 4.4, I believe you are double amping it.


Yea, I think your right.  I apologize, I am using the 3.5 mm output.  Using a 3.5mm male to RCA input's on the back of the Vali. There is a setting on the M11 for PO (Headphone out), LO and SPDIF (which I would need to use the balanced outputs, 4.5mm or 2.5mm)


----------



## senorx12562 (Oct 27, 2020)

emorrison33 said:


> Yea, I think your right.  I apologize, I am using the 3.5 mm output.  Using a 3.5mm male to RCA input's on the back of the Vali. There is a setting on the M11 for PO (Headphone out), LO and SPDIF (which I would need to use the balanced outputs, 4.5mm or 2.5mm)


Actually, you can only use the S/PDIF out via the 3.5mm port just like the lo function. But that output format is designed to send a digital signal, which would require an outboard dac btwn the m11 and the vali, via the included adapter and an additional coax 75 ohm cable. I believe the 4.4 and 2.5mm outs are balanced headphone outs only. A 3.5-dual rca cable on fixed volume lo setting to the inputs just as you describe is exactly right. Btw, I have found that high gain on the Vali sounds better, but may not give you enough volume control. Happy listening!


----------



## CarlosAudio51

emorrison33 said:


> Yea, I think your right.  I apologize, I am using the 3.5 mm output.  Using a 3.5mm male to RCA input's on the back of the Vali. There is a setting on the M11 for PO (Headphone out), LO and SPDIF (which I would need to use the balanced outputs, 4.5mm or 2.5mm)


If the gain setting does not do anything to the line out output, then it's a fixed output. According to Fiio's website, the output is 1.95 V into 10 kOhms load. This is plenty to drive the Vali 2.


----------



## emorrison33

CarlosAudio51 said:


> If the gain setting does not do anything to the line out output, then it's a fixed output. According to Fiio's website, the output is 1.95 V into 10 kOhms load. This is plenty to drive the Vali 2.


Thank you!  And thank you to senorx12562   Help is much appreciated


----------



## ScubaMan2017

My Vali 2 helps me avoid going off the deep end and  buying a Lyr 2. I just can’t get my head around buying that headamp and having an empty expansion slot. 
According to a recent webcast on FB, Schiit’s digital engineer Dave did assemble a TOSLINK/SPIDIF expansion card (for the larger rigs). It didn’t make sense financially to make a run of these cards.
Lyr 2 plus a UNISON card? I doubt I can differentiate that card from their earlier offering, the USB “5th gen” card. *My* *point* = Vali 2 with modified knobs for the win!


----------



## senorx12562

ScubaMan2017 said:


> My Vali 2 helps me avoid going off the deep end and  buying a Lyr 2. I just can’t get my head around buying that headamp and having an empty expansion slot.
> According to a recent webcast on FB, Schiit’s digital engineer Dave did assemble a TOSLINK/SPIDIF expansion card (for the larger rigs). It didn’t make sense financially to make a run of these cards.
> Lyr 2 plus a UNISON card? I doubt I can differentiate that card from their earlier offering, the USB “5th gen” card. *My* *point* = Vali 2 with modified knobs for the win!


While I have bigger, more expensive, "better" head amps, my Elex sounds better from my little Vali 2 than any of them. All about synergy I guess.


----------



## RickB

ScubaMan2017 said:


> My Vali 2 helps me avoid going off the deep end and  buying a Lyr 2. I just can’t get my head around buying that headamp and having an empty expansion slot.
> According to a recent webcast on FB, Schiit’s digital engineer Dave did assemble a TOSLINK/SPIDIF expansion card (for the larger rigs). It didn’t make sense financially to make a run of these cards.
> Lyr 2 plus a UNISON card? I doubt I can differentiate that card from their earlier offering, the USB “5th gen” card. *My* *point* = Vali 2 with modified knobs for the win!



I think you mean Lyr 3. The Lyr 2 doesn't have an expansion slot, AFAIK.


----------



## tafens

ScubaMan2017 said:


> My Vali 2 helps me avoid going off the deep end and buying a Lyr 2. I just can’t get my head around buying that headamp and having an empty expansion slot.



Jason said somewhere (I think it was in the Schiit happened thread) that although they don’t have the RCA input card on the web site it would be possible to buy if you ask for it (just as with the Modi Multibit firmware update chip). Perhaps it’s possible to order a Lyr3 with the RCA input card pre-installed too?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

tafens said:


> Jason said somewhere (I think it was in the Schiit happened thread) that although they don’t have the RCA input card on the web site it would be possible to buy if you ask for it (just as with the Modi Multibit firmware update chip). Perhaps it’s possible to order a Lyr3 with the RCA input card pre-installed too?


Curious. As I understand it, both the Vali 2 and the Lyr 3 haver RCA inputs. Both have RCA pre-amplifier outputs (that if I was silly enough, I could plug into a future power-amp like a Vidar... that leads to a couple of Magnepans that I’ve been lusting after).
I think, @tafens , you are suggesting that I might be able to have a 3rd set of RCA plugs (for input? Like some kind of switchable input... like a built-in SYS that can A/B between the 2 RCA inputs?!)

Ohhhhhhh boy. That’d be nice. Tsk. Must. Not. Spend. Money (....yet...).


----------



## bcowen

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Curious. As I understand it, both the Vali 2 and the Lyr 3 haver RCA inputs. Both have RCA pre-amplifier outputs (that if I was silly enough, I could plug into a future power-amp like a Vidar... that leads to a couple of Magnepans that I’ve been lusting after).
> I think, @tafens , you are suggesting that I might be able to have a 3rd set of RCA plugs (for input? Like some kind of switchable input... like a built-in SYS that can A/B between the 2 RCA inputs?!)
> 
> Ohhhhhhh boy. That’d be nice. Tsk. Must. Not. Spend. Money (....yet...).



Both the Lyr 3 and Vali 2 have one pair of RCA inputs. If there's an RCA input card available for the Lyr 3 you could have 2 inputs, but not three.  

The photo below obviously has the DAC card installed (thus the USB input). With no card installed (like mine) there is simply a blank-off plate covering the hole.


----------



## tafens

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Curious. As I understand it, both the Vali 2 and the Lyr 3 haver RCA inputs. Both have RCA pre-amplifier outputs (that if I was silly enough, I could plug into a future power-amp like a Vidar... that leads to a couple of Magnepans that I’ve been lusting after).





ScubaMan2017 said:


> I think, @tafens , you are suggesting that I might be able to have a 3rd set of RCA plugs (for input? Like some kind of switchable input... like a built-in SYS that can A/B between the 2 RCA inputs?!)
> 
> Ohhhhhhh boy. That’d be nice. Tsk. Must. Not. Spend. Money (....yet...).



Yes, exactly that, an extra set of RCA inputs that you can switch to by setting the input switch to the card position.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

tafens said:


> Yes, exactly that, an extra set of RCA inputs that you can switch to by setting the input switch to the card position.


Unused ports. I just can’t abide it.


----------



## bcowen

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Unused ports. I just can’t abide it.



Just get some of these to plug into those unused inputs, and they're no longer "unused."

LOL!!!!!!!


----------



## tafens

bcowen said:


> Just get some of these to plug into those unused inputs, and they're no longer "unused."
> 
> LOL!!!!!!!



Hey that’s quite the deal, $295 for eight works out to only just below $37 a piece!


However, if one does not feel like spending that kind of money just to short out one’s amplifier, here’s the one-size-fits-all-budget-alternative:


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> Hey that’s quite the deal, $295 for eight works out to only just below $37 a piece!
> 
> 
> However, if one does not feel like spending that kind of money just to short out one’s amplifier, here’s the one-size-fits-all-budget-alternative:



Those are NOT audiophile quality.  I'm ashamed of you, @tafens .


----------



## tafens

bcowen said:


> Those are NOT audiophile quality.  I'm ashamed of you, @tafens .



Of course they’re not _audiophile_ quality, they’re the budget ones 

For the so inclined with a few more dollars on hand here are the diamond-quality gold-plated ones (extra large):


----------



## ScubaMan2017

bcowen said:


> Just get some of these to plug into those unused inputs, and they're no longer "unused."
> 
> LOL!!!!!!!


Amazing. I gotta believe this is some flakey cutting and pasting. 3 hundred bucks. With a 5 dollar discount! 💰🦃💰🦃💰🦃


----------



## bcowen

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Amazing. I gotta believe this is some flakey cutting and pasting. 3 hundred bucks. With a 5 dollar discount! 💰🦃💰🦃💰🦃



https://www.vhaudio.com/shielding.html#ar-plugs


----------



## ScubaMan2017

bcowen said:


> https://www.vhaudio.com/shielding.html#ar-plugs


 Select (ABORT) (RETRY) (FAIL). .... _this UI menu on DOS always confused me_. I clicked on that link and the woo came flooding through. Yeah, nah.


----------



## bcowen

ScubaMan2017 said:


> .... _this UI menu on DOS always confused me_.



Which is why Microsoft stole what Xerox created and re-named it Windows....


----------



## RickB

bcowen said:


> Which is why Microsoft stole what Xerox created and re-named it Windows....



Gates and Jobs both.


----------



## bcowen

RickB said:


> Gates and Jobs both.



True.  Imagine where Xerox would be right now if they'd had the foresight to patent the GUI...


----------



## bochawa

Added a fat volume knob some time ago and recently moved Vali 2 to my Mac Mini with a Modi Optical.  The preamp output is going straight into passive computer speakers with an RCA to 3.5mm adapter.  Someday I'll get around to adding an amp and speakers.  Love having the big volume knob - so much nicer to adjust now.


----------



## bcowen

bochawa said:


> Added a fat volume knob some time ago and recently moved Vali 2 to my Mac Mini with a Modi Optical.  The preamp output is going straight into passive computer speakers with an RCA to 3.5mm adapter.  Someday I'll get around to adding an amp and speakers.  Love having the big volume knob - so much nicer to adjust now.


----------



## tafens

Not that I really needed one, like, at all, but..

I had my eye on the Vali2 when it arrived but then the Magni3 also came out and I took that route instead from my Magni2U. Since then I’ve landed a Lyr3 instead and very happy with it and its cozily glowing tube 

Enter the Vali2+
Now I couldn’t resist and pulled the trigger on one. Order is in, waiting on shipping 

I reasoned that I needed something to stick my Vokshod Rocket, E188CC and E288CC in that I got on eBay back when I was on the track for the original Vali2. Perfectly logical and reasonable, no? 

I’d need a socket saver though.
Anyone know of one that fits well in the Vali2?


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> Not that I really needed one, like, at all, but..
> 
> I had my eye on the Vali2 when it arrived but then the Magni3 also came out and I took that route instead from my Magni2U. Since then I’ve landed a Lyr3 instead and very happy with it and its cozily glowing tube
> 
> ...



Logic is not required when tubes (and amps) are involved.  

If you're just needing a straight-up socket saver, they're probably all made in China anyway so it's mostly dependent on the shipping cost being the least costly for you.  

https://www.angela.com/9pinsocketsaverfortubetestersgoldpins.aspx


----------



## perror

HI everyone, just wondering if anyone has had experience using the Vali 2 on a low impedence IEM like say an ATH-E70?


----------



## Mr Trev

I find the Vali2 sounds great with IEMs - surprisingly so. I don't know offhand what the impedence of any of mine are, but they definitely are on the low end.
The only downside is possible tube noise. For the most part using low gain will eliminate it, but I do have some tubes that still have audible noise. I would imagine that those ifi IEM thingies (https://www.amazon.ca/iFi-Headphone-Background-Improves-Increased/dp/B01L4CPF7U) would solve it completely.


----------



## afilen

Mr Trev said:


> I find the Vali2 sounds great with IEMs - surprisingly so. I don't know offhand what the impedence of any of mine are, but they definitely are on the low end.
> The only downside is possible tube noise. For the most part using low gain will eliminate it, but I do have some tubes that still have audible noise. I would imagine that those ifi IEM thingies (https://www.amazon.ca/iFi-Headphone-Background-Improves-Increased/dp/B01L4CPF7U) would solve it completely.


The IEM matcher works well for most types of IEMs, I've used mine with CA Andromeda and ER4XRs, no issues at all


----------



## supersonic395

Has anyone used the Vali 2+ with the Modius DAC? 

I want to get the Modius and Vali 2+ as my DAC-AMP combo stack, and plan to use them with my Beyerdynamic DT 770 (80ohm). 

Also for the low/high gain switch on the Vali 2+, what would be better for the 80ohm headphones?


----------



## Ichos

I have used the Vali 2+ with dacs from the iFi zen to the Denafrips Pontus.
It was a great match for all of them.
I don't see why will not be with modius.


----------



## Mr Trev (Dec 17, 2020)

supersonic395 said:


> Also for the low/high gain switch on the Vali 2+, what would be better for the 80ohm headphones?



IME, it depends on the tube. If the tube is on the noisy side, then you'll probably have no choice but to use low.
With a good quiet tube, I've even been about to use my Grado 125 (32ohm) on high gain, but you don't get much volume sweep before things get waaay loud.

Supposedly, high gain has more tubey distortion goodness, so in theory, if you want "tube sound" that is the route to go

<edit> also forgot, it will depend on the source too. Some DACs will have higher output voltage than others, therefore are louder


----------



## Ichos

Regarding the gain it also depends on the tube internal gain.
For example with Sovtek 6n1pi you need to dial the pot up in order to 
get same level volume as with the stock tube.


----------



## senorx12562 (Dec 17, 2020)

supersonic395 said:


> Has anyone used the Vali 2+ with the Modius DAC?
> 
> I want to get the Modius and Vali 2+ as my DAC-AMP combo stack, and plan to use them with my Beyerdynamic DT 770 (80ohm).
> 
> Also for the low/high gain switch on the Vali 2+, what would be better for the 80ohm headphones?


Unless you are going to utilize the balanced output of the Modius, you might consider just going with the Modi, as most of the additional cost of the Modius is due to the balanced out, none of the benefits of which will be realized if you are only using the se output to the Vali. Of course, if you are planning to use the balanced outs to a speaker amp or a second headamp now or in the future, that might change your calculation. Just my 2 cents. Hope it is worth at least that. As for the gain setting, I would try both and see what sounds best to you.


----------



## supersonic395 (Dec 17, 2020)

senorx12562 said:


> Unless you are going to utilize the balanced output of the Modius, you might consider just going with the Modi, as most of the additional cost of the Modius is due to the balanced out, none of the benefits of which will be realized if you are only using the se output to the Vali. Of course, if you are planning to use the balanced outs to a speaker amp or a second headamp now or in the future, that might change your calculation. Just my 2 cents. Hope it is worth at least that. As for the gain setting, I would try both and see what sounds best to you.



The DAC chip in the Modius is different though - it's got 4493 over the Modi's 4490.

Also I plan to get other amps in future but wanted a more versatile DAC within reasonable budget so feel the Modius is better.

I plan to use the stock tube for a good while before doing some limited rolling - does the Vali 2+ stock tube differ to the previous Vali 2?

Edit: I will be using my PC or Laptop feeding the DAC via USB (all flac format at CD quality and also films from blu ray discs).


----------



## XERO1




----------



## inmytaxi

senorx12562 said:


> Unless you are going to utilize the balanced output of the Modius, you might consider just going with the Modi, as most of the additional cost of the Modius is due to the balanced out, none of the benefits of which will be realized if you are only using the se output to the Vali. Of course, if you are planning to use the balanced outs to a speaker amp or a second headamp now or in the future, that might change your calculation. Just my 2 cents. Hope it is worth at least that. As for the gain setting, I would try both and see what sounds best to you.


Or if you want to spend more, Modi Multibit sounds way better to my ears than Modius ... both sound fine, Mimby is smoother or something ... can't describe it really.


----------



## supersonic395

tafens said:


> Not that I really needed one, like, at all, but..
> 
> I had my eye on the Vali2 when it arrived but then the Magni3 also came out and I took that route instead from my Magni2U. Since then I’ve landed a Lyr3 instead and very happy with it and its cozily glowing tube
> 
> ...



Did you receive your Vali 2+? 

How does it sound with the stock tube please?


----------



## Ichos

Neutral , linear and dynamic with a touch of tube magic.
One of the best and most enjoyable amps I have ever heard no matter the price.


----------



## supersonic395

Also how does this amp sound with bands like Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd?


----------



## Ichos

A good amp sounds good with everything you throw at it.
So the question you are asking is headphone related.


----------



## inmytaxi

supersonic395 said:


> Also how does this amp sound with bands like Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd?


Progressively bad.


----------



## supersonic395

inmytaxi said:


> Progressively bad.



Lol true but at you know, from the recent Zeppelin remasters, I really like the reference mix for Achilles Last Stand so looking forward to hearing that.


----------



## supersonic395

Ichos said:


> A good amp sounds good with everything you throw at it.
> So the question you are asking is headphone related.



Ah okay - I'll be using the Beyerdynamic DT 770 (80ohm), has anyone used these headphones with the Vali 2?


----------



## inmytaxi

supersonic395 said:


> Lol true but at you know, from the recent Zeppelin remasters, I really like the reference mix for Achilles Last Stand so looking forward to hearing that.


I'm a fellow conspirator. I love the live Floyd set. Pissed we had to wait till we look just a little silly buying it.


----------



## hollandstein

I’ve absolutely loved my Vali 2. Especially with the Gold Lion.


----------



## supersonic395

Vali 2+ and Modius arrived this morning! Amazing service from Schiit - ordered Wednesday night UK time and it's here in 2 days!! 

Will post impressions soon - my first foray into Schiit gear with a view to bumping up the Vali 2+ to the Lyre 3 next year.


----------



## supersonic395

I've let it run for a few hours and just came back to it and it sounds so good, much better than I'm used to. I'm using it in conjunction with the Modius and the layers and details with the music I listened sounds so much better.

I'm planning to continue using the stock tube (it's made in Japan) but whilst I don't want to go crazy with tube rolling, what are the best tubes that won't break the bank to go with the Vali 2+? (Also not interested in using any adapters for tubes outside the intended spec).


----------



## Ichos

Made in Japan?
Are you sure , I thought that they were from Canada.
Anyway.
Tubes need more than 100 hours to settle and burn in so take your time and don't harry at all.

From my experience the best 6922 tubes worth for tube rolling without costing an arm and leg are -

Electro harmonix 6922 gold pins
Electro harmonix 6CG7 gold pins 
(or their plain variety)
Russian 6N1Pi
Gold Lions 6922.


----------



## hollandstein

I use the Gold Lion 6922 and love it


----------



## supersonic395

Ichos said:


> Made in Japan?
> Are you sure , I thought that they were from Canada.
> Anyway.
> Tubes need more than 100 hours to settle and burn in so take your time and don't harry at all.
> ...



Yup am very sure, it says made in Japan and it does sound pretty good I have to say - I will let it run in for that amount of time and then go from there.

Thank you for these recommendations - would you be able to briefly comment on how each tube affects the sound please? 😊


----------



## Ichos

EH 6922 more extension , greater clarity , more tight and linear.
6N1pi great natural tonality , more loose on the bass , natural sounding highs better body.
Gold Lions very clean and tight , more dynamic and borderline bright.


----------



## supersonic395

Ichos said:


> EH 6922 more extension , greater clarity , more tight and linear.
> 6N1pi great natural tonality , more loose on the bass , natural sounding highs better body.
> Gold Lions very clean and tight , more dynamic and borderline bright.



Thank youuuu, I'll probably go for the 6922 first but I'll stick with the stock one until at least the new year


----------



## Ichos

Yes sure , give it time so then you can appreciate the differences.


----------



## supersonic395

Have an EH 6CG7 and an EH 6922 on the way! 

I don't plan to get any other tubes but am letting that stock tube burn in currently. 

Will continue using the stock tube for at least another week but does anyone have experience with both the EH 6CG7 and the EH 6922?


----------



## tafens

supersonic395 said:


> Did you receive your Vali 2+?
> 
> How does it sound with the stock tube please?



I like it, it’s a great little amp. Listening with my HD6XX it sounds very nice with the stock tube that I got with it, warm, cozy even, no harshness in my ears. It’s a great pairing with the Modi Multibit (which sadly seems to have an uncertain future).

It’s tonally almost like mini Lyr3 I’d say, at least with the stock tube, but its big brother pulls ahead in just about all regards of course. I also tried connecting it to my Bifrost2 and although I hear improvements in doing so as compared to the Modi Multibit, the difference is not as large as it was for the Lyr3 going to the Bifrost2 from the internal multibit card.


----------



## tafens

The stock tube I got with the Vali2+ is a 6BZ7/6BQ7A, apparently from Canada:




It has a halo/ring getter stand.

Does anyone know who manufactured this tube?

The only markings that are on it are the ones in the picture above. No date codes, but it has “22” embossed in the glass in the spacing between pins 1 and 9. Also, no etched dots, so it can’t be a GE


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> The stock tube I got with the Vali2+ is a 6BZ7/6BQ7A, apparently from Canada:
> 
> It has a halo/ring getter stand.
> 
> ...



Can't say for sure, but that silkscreened font looks very RCA-ish.  Could be a Canadian Marconi.


----------



## Mr Trev

In all the years the Vali2 has exisited, I don't think anybody have been able to identify the manf. of those tubes.
We'll probably solve the Riddle of the Sphinx first…


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> In all the years the Vali2 has exisited, I don't think anybody have been able to identify the manf. of those tubes.
> We'll probably solve the Riddle of the Sphinx first…



Can't say that I ever took the tubes that came with either of my Vali 2's out of the box.    Better things awaited in each case.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Can't say that I ever took the tubes that came with either of my Vali 2's out of the box.    Better things awaited in each case.



Same here. I already had some NOS tubes before the V2 arrived. Eventually did give the stock a try, but it was noisy in a scary, bad way. I quickly removed it before damage was done and haven't looked back since.


----------



## supersonic395

Received the EH 6CG7 and 6922 tubes today! 

Starting with the 6CG7 and this is a really nice improvement - I'll keep burning in the tube over next week or so as I'm waiting on my Beyer Amiron Home to arrive (currently using my 770).


----------



## supersonic395

Is there a general consensus about using high Vs low gain for 250 ohm cans? 

I'm currently using 80 ohm cans and I can use low gain up to around 12pm on the volume pot or high gain around 9-10am, but high gain sounds better to me to some reason - is this placebo or a known characteristic of the Vali 2 sounding better in high gain?


----------



## Mr Trev

supersonic395 said:


> Is there a general consensus about using high Vs low gain for 250 ohm cans?
> 
> I'm currently using 80 ohm cans and I can use low gain up to around 12pm on the volume pot or high gain around 9-10am, but high gain sounds better to me to some reason - is this placebo or a known characteristic of the Vali 2 sounding better in high gain?



Really, if it sounds better to you, then it is better - regardless of what other people tell you

yes, I realize this is heresy to some round the Head-Fi-dom…

One caveat… make sure it's level matched. Louder will always seem better.


----------



## darkarn

Double check, is the Vali 2+ an OTL amp like Vallaha 2 or Project Horizon?


----------



## Ichos

darkarn said:


> Double check, is the Vali 2+ an OTL amp like Vallaha 2 or Project Horizon?



The Vali 2+ and Project Horizon are tube hybrid amplifiers.
Only the Valhalla is OTL.


----------



## kdoof (Dec 25, 2020)

darkarn said:


> Double check, is the Vali 2+ an OTL amp like Vallaha 2 or Project Horizon?



no, it’s a hybrid. But much tubier-sounding than most. (CTH, Liquid Plat, for example... tubier than Valhalla actually)


----------



## tafens

supersonic395 said:


> I'm currently using 80 ohm cans and I can use low gain up to around 12pm on the volume pot or high gain around 9-10am, but high gain sounds better to me to some reason - is this placebo or a known characteristic of the Vali 2 sounding better in high gain?



You are not alone, I feel the same regarding high and low gain too; high gain sounds better to me.

I discovered this when I switched my Lyr3 to low gain to get more usable movement out of the volume pot, and no surprises, that worked as expected and I didn’t hear any immediate difference (except volume). Great. But then came the feeling that something was off, it didn’t sound as good any more, not by much, but it still wasn’t the same, regardless of volume. Something was lost. It didn’t sound “right”. The sound was flatter, less dynamic. I didn’t immediately connect the difference to my switching the gain either, so I checked settings in my computer, thought that the tube maybe had started wearing out, doubting my memory/ears etc. But then occurred the thought that I had switched the gain. Switched it back to high and behold, it sounded “right” again!  The difference is subtle, but still there to my ears.

Some time later, this was discussed in over in the Shiiit Happened thread (or was it the Lyr3 thread? this is some time ago now) and other people felt the same thing with the Lyr3 gain and Asgard3 too, and I think other amps were brought up as well.

Turns out there is a technical explanation for this. In high gain mode, a lower amount of negative feedback is used. Feedback is used to reduce distortion, but it also affects gain. So, high gain means more volume at the same setting on the volume pot but also more distortion. Not by much, but apparently enough to be able hear a difference. If it sounds better or not is an individual preference of course, but there is a real difference to it.


----------



## darkarn

Ichos said:


> The Vali 2+ and Project Horizon are tube hybrid amplifiers.
> Only the Valhalla is OTL.





kdoof said:


> no, it’s a hybrid. But much tubier-sounding than most. (CTH, Liquid Plat, for example... tubier than Valhalla actually)



Thank you both, now I see why Vali 2+ is such a winner for those looking for the tube sound and also why some are amazed by Vallaha since it is said to be less tubier than some tube amps

Either way looks like I can go for either of these tube amps if I want something different from my Project Ember


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> You are not alone, I feel the same regarding high and low gain too; high gain sounds better to me.
> 
> I discovered this when I switched my Lyr3 to low gain to get more usable movement out of the volume pot, and no surprises, that worked as expected and I didn’t hear any immediate difference (except volume). Great. But then came the feeling that something was off, it didn’t sound as good any more, not by much, but it still wasn’t the same, regardless of volume. Something was lost. It didn’t sound “right”. The sound was flatter, less dynamic. I didn’t immediately connect the difference to my switching the gain either, so I checked settings in my computer, thought that the tube maybe had started wearing out, doubting my memory/ears etc. But then occurred the thought that I had switched the gain. Switched it back to high and behold, it sounded “right” again!  The difference is subtle, but still there to my ears.
> 
> ...



Ahhhh....the question of the millennium: do tubes sound better _because_ of their higher harmonic distortion, or despite it?  Probably impossible to count the number of flame wars that have erupted over this very subject over the years, but once all the dust has settled (repeatedly), @Mr Trev summed it up succinctly and perfectly: if it sounds better to you, then it is better.  And that's all that matters.


----------



## Odin412

bcowen said:


> if it sounds better to you, then it is better.  And that's all that matters.



Well said.


----------



## Ichos

darkarn said:


> Thank you both, now I see why Vali 2+ is such a winner for those looking for the tube sound and also why some are amazed by Vallaha since it is said to be less tubier than some tube amps
> 
> Either way looks like I can go for either of these tube amps if I want something different from my Project Ember



What headphones do you own?


----------



## senorx12562

darkarn said:


> Thank you both, now I see why Vali 2+ is such a winner for those looking for the tube sound and also why some are amazed by Vallaha since it is said to be less tubier than some tube amps
> 
> Either way looks like I can go for either of these tube amps if I want something different from my Project Ember


Just don't try to drive low impedance planars with Valhalla. With LCD2s and HE500s it sounded broken. Sundaras sound great with Vali 2 tho.


----------



## darkarn

Ichos said:


> What headphones do you own?



Right now just a beyerdynamic Custom One Pro, Sennhieser IE 80 and JBL LSR 305 (1st Gen). Am looking into getting Sennhieser HD 600 as soon as next year and perhaps HD 800S (or even just a HD 560S) much later down the line



senorx12562 said:


> Just don't try to drive low impedance planars with Valhalla. With LCD2s and HE500s it sounded broken. Sundaras sound great with Vali 2 tho.



Thanks but I am unsure if I want planars just yet


----------



## Ichos (Dec 25, 2020)

darkarn said:


> Right now just a beyerdynamic Custom One Pro, Sennhieser IE 80 and JBL LSR 305 (1st Gen). Am looking into getting Sennhieser HD 600 as soon as next year and perhaps HD 800S (or even just a HD 560S) much later down the line



For the headphones you are planning to buy the Valhalla with some warmer sounding tubes is a good choice.


----------



## darkarn

Ichos said:


> For the headphones you are planning to buy the Valhalla with some warmer sounding tubes is a good choice.



Thanks, main challenge would be to find two pairs of tubes that can give me this warmer sound right?


----------



## Ichos

This should do the trick
https://tubedepot.com/products/ge-5670w-and-5670-to-6922-adapter-combo


----------



## darkarn

Ichos said:


> This should do the trick
> https://tubedepot.com/products/ge-5670w-and-5670-to-6922-adapter-combo



Thanks, this is interesting since this seems viable for all of the amps we mentioned so far, be it Vali, Horizon/Ember or Vallaha. Pretty cheap for a NOS too

Still need to look for good 6N6P pairs though if I were to go with Vallaha (eventually, not now since I just repaired my Ember)


----------



## Ichos

This is a little miracle tube with 100 times more performance than its humble price.


----------



## tafens

bcowen said:


> Ahhhh....the question of the millennium: do tubes sound better _because_ of their higher harmonic distortion, or despite it?



That’s a very interesting question! And probably a debate that can go on for a millennium, too. I have no idea, but I do know I like the sound of tubes regardless of what the answer may be.




bcowen said:


> @Mr Trev summed it up succinctly and perfectly: if it sounds better to you, then it is better. And that's all that matters.



Exactly! I discovered that I like high gain better than low gain so I use it. But I’m also glad that there is a technical explanation for it, that way I know that it isn’t my mind playing tricks on me (at least not this time ).


----------



## HanselPA

Hy guys! Any of you with experience with the now old Vali 2 that can do an A-B with the actual Vali 2+ ?? Thanks!!


----------



## RickB

HanselPA said:


> Hy guys! Any of you with experience with the now old Vali 2 that can do an A-B with the actual Vali 2+ ?? Thanks!!



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-4598#post-16060437


----------



## kwatch

I'm thinking of buying a socket saver. Will these work? Any recommendation will be appreciated.

Amptata 9pin ECC83 82 81 12AX7 U7 T7 EL84 6BQ5 Pre Amplifier Guitar Tube Saver | eBay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-gold-pl...137449?hash=item5960252929:g:cRcAAOSw8zRcSVKM


----------



## bcowen

kwatch said:


> I'm thinking of buying a socket saver. Will these work? Any recommendation will be appreciated.
> 
> Amptata 9pin ECC83 82 81 12AX7 U7 T7 EL84 6BQ5 Pre Amplifier Guitar Tube Saver | eBay
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-gold-pl...137449?hash=item5960252929:g:cRcAAOSw8zRcSVKM



Either one will work fine electrically.  The 2nd link (cheaper one) will work for sure. The 'Amptata' one looks nicer, but they don't list any dimensions. It looks like it should fit through the hole in the Vali's cover without any problem, but if you want to go with that one it wouldn't hurt to message the seller and see what the outside diameter is to make sure it's not too big.  The top cover hole in the Vali 2 is 25mm in diameter -- not sure if that changed with the Vali 2+ though if that's what you have.


----------



## tafens

bcowen said:


> Either one will work fine electrically.  The 2nd link (cheaper one) will work for sure. The 'Amptata' one looks nicer, but they don't list any dimensions. It looks like it should fit through the hole in the Vali's cover without any problem, but if you want to go with that one it wouldn't hurt to message the seller and see what the outside diameter is to make sure it's not too big.  The top cover hole in the Vali 2 is 25mm in diameter -- not sure if that changed with the Vali 2+ though if that's what you have.



Measuring on my Vali2+ I get 25.3-ish mm, so ever so slightly larger it seems.

Aside: Just got off eBay having spent $48.56 total (including shipping) on two 9-pin socket savers, and one adapter each for 6SN7-6922, 6922-6SN7, and 7N7-6SN7. It’s not only tubes that cost money in this hobby..!

Aside to the aside: But my Vali2+ sure is going to look cool (weird?) with a 7N7 in there via one 7N7-6SN7 adapter, one 6SN7-6922 adapter, and one socket saver..


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> Measuring on my Vali2+ I get 25.3-ish mm, so ever so slightly larger it seems.
> 
> Aside: Just got off eBay having spent $48.56 total (including shipping) on two 9-pin socket savers, and one adapter each for 6SN7-6922, 6922-6SN7, and 7N7-6SN7. It’s not only tubes that cost money in this hobby..!
> 
> Aside to the aside: But my Vali2+ sure is going to look cool (weird?) with a 7N7 in there via one 7N7-6SN7 adapter, one 6SN7-6922 adapter, and one socket saver..



I vote for 'cool' versus weird.   

Or you could get @Deyan to make you a 1-piece adapter (not that you need one now LOL!).


----------



## Mr Trev

tafens said:


> Measuring on my Vali2+ I get 25.3-ish mm, so ever so slightly larger it seems.
> 
> Aside: Just got off eBay having spent $48.56 total (including shipping) on two 9-pin socket savers, and one adapter each for 6SN7-6922, 6922-6SN7, and 7N7-6SN7. It’s not only tubes that cost money in this hobby..!
> 
> Aside to the aside: But my Vali2+ sure is going to look cool (weird?) with a 7N7 in there via one 7N7-6SN7 adapter, one 6SN7-6922 adapter, and one socket saver..



You better hope that 7n7 has those types of heaters that flash when you turn it on otherwise you'll have aircraft crashing into it.


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> You better hope that 7n7 has those types of heaters that flash when you turn it on otherwise you'll have aircraft crashing into it.



ROFL! 

And just as a public service announcement, this is the proper way to adapter-ize a Vali 2.  Not sure about the Vali 2+ though.


----------



## Mr Trev (Dec 27, 2020)

bcowen said:


> ROFL!
> 
> And just as a public service announcement, this is the proper way to adapter-ize a Vali 2.  Not sure about the Vali 2+ though.



Nice.
I'd suggest you could decorate it to look like a totem pole, but then you'd probably get lynched for "cultural appropriation" Unless of course you're Native American, then just DO IT!


----------



## Mr Trev

In effort to balance my witty banter/legit topic post ratio…

I finally stopped waffling and ordered a couple Matsus. A 6CG7 and a  6BQ7. Still haven't heard anything other than the stock tube (very briefly) on the 6BQ7/6BZ7, and the 6CG7 had been on my radar for a bit - just a matter of finding one that didn't have stoopid high shipping costs.
Hopefully, if the shipping gods smile upon me, I should have it before… the pandemic ends?


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> In effort to balance my witty banter/legit topic post ratio…
> 
> I finally stopped waffling and ordered a couple Matsus. A 6CG7 and a  6BQ7. Still haven't heard anything other than the stock tube (very briefly) on the 6BQ7/6BZ7, and the 6CG7 had been on my radar for a bit - just a matter of finding one that didn't have stoopid high shipping costs.
> Hopefully, if the shipping gods smile upon me, I should have it before… the pandemic ends?



Be very interested to hear what you think of the Matsu's.  The Brimar 6BQ7A is another worthy one and sounds great in the Vali 2.  Langrex had a bunch on Ebay a while back that he was selling for ~$20/tube (including US shipping) but looks like he's all out.  Worth keeping an eye out for though if you can run across a decent deal.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Be very interested to hear what you think of the Matsu's.  The Brimar 6BQ7A is another worthy one and sounds great in the Vali 2.  Langrex had a bunch on Ebay a while back that he was selling for ~$20/tube (including US shipping) but looks like he's all out.  Worth keeping an eye out for though if you can run across a decent deal.



I liked the Matsu 7DJ8 well enough that it made me wonder about their other tubes. The seller did have a 6SN7 too, but the rating were pretty low so I figured it probably wasn't worth the $10 to check out. I did check for some of those Brimars, but no joy - admittedly, I didn't look very hard.

A bonus will be no adapters. Not sure if it's just the ones I have, but every tube I have that needs an adapter (except the ecc40s) has an audible hum.
What's your take on adapters in your V2? Maybe I just need to get some of those Deyan ones.


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> I liked the Matsu 7DJ8 well enough that it made me wonder about their other tubes. The seller did have a 6SN7 too, but the rating were pretty low so I figured it probably wasn't worth the $10 to check out. I did check for some of those Brimars, but no joy - admittedly, I didn't look very hard.
> 
> A bonus will be no adapters. Not sure if it's just the ones I have, but every tube I have that needs an adapter (except the ecc40s) has an audible hum.
> What's your take on adapters in your V2? Maybe I just need to get some of those Deyan ones.



I've never noticed any hum problems, even with the Chinese adapters. But I only have a few for the Vali 2 -- most of mine are 6SN7 bottoms going to something else on top (originally for the Lyr 3).  No hum at all with Deyan's 7N7 adapter either, and I like the fact that it's one piece so no extension is required. Normally a 6922 ->7N7 (or other top octal socket) would be too large in diameter to fit without an extension.


----------



## supersonic395

Is it me or is high gain only really useable beyond 9pm on the volume dial on 600ohm cans?

I have 250ohm cans and low gain seems plenty powerful.


----------



## RickB

supersonic395 said:


> Is it me or is high gain only really useable beyond 9pm on the volume dial on 600ohm cans?
> 
> I have 250ohm cans and low gain seems plenty powerful.


I only use low gain and keep the volume at 9 o’clock on modern recordings


----------



## darkarn (Jan 13, 2021)

Back from erm, quite a bit of celebration and increased workload

I took a while to check the tubes I have and found my current best to be a Sylvania 6SN7GTB, black plated and estimated to be those from 1960s with yellow paint. It is sitting on Garage1217's 6SN7 to 12AU7 adapter.

Will a GE 5670 be a step up over it if I use either in a Vali 2?

PS: I have not gotten a Vali 2 yet, but I want to see if going for a GE 5670 and appropriate G1217 adapter is worth the shipping cost; idea is to use tubes that can fit in both the Project Ember and Vali 2 and even Vallaha 2


----------



## bcowen

darkarn said:


> Back from erm, quite a bit of celebration and increased workload
> 
> I took a while to check the tubes I have and found my current best to be a Sylvania 6SN7GTB, black plated and estimated to be those from 1960s with yellow paint. It is sitting on Garage1217's 6SN7 to 12AU7 adapter.
> 
> Will a GE 5670 be a step up over it if I use either in a Vali 2?



"GE" and "step UP" is an oxymoron.   

Seriously, it will sound different.  Whether it's more to your liking or not is the question.  I've tried the Western Electric 396A, a couple different Sylvania 2C51's, and a couple different 5670's in the Vali 2 and preferred a good 6SN7 and even the Brimar 6BQ7A to any of them.  But that's just me with my setup and preferences.  The GE 5670's can still be picked up pretty cheaply, so if you already have the adapter it won't cost much to try.


----------



## darkarn (Jan 13, 2021)

bcowen said:


> "GE" and "step UP" is an oxymoron.
> 
> Seriously, it will sound different.  Whether it's more to your liking or not is the question.  I've tried the Western Electric 396A, a couple different Sylvania 2C51's, and a couple different 5670's in the Vali 2 and preferred a good 6SN7 and even the Brimar 6BQ7A to any of them.  But that's just me with my setup and preferences.  The GE 5670's can still be picked up pretty cheaply, so if you already have the adapter it won't cost much to try.



Thanks! I am indeed interested in the GE 5670 as these are widely available and still considered pretty cheap for a NOS in 2021's standards. Helps that it is small even with an adapter, which means it can most probably fit in a Vallaha 2?

I do not have the adapter(s) yet though so initial costs will be steep (but not much actually compared to trying to get one of those unobtainum legendary 12AU7 Telefunkens...) and this is also why I thought I should ask in places with 5670 experiences. Finding a WE 396A will be a challenge too since most probably I will have to separately ship that in

I think this may be that one time where I should say "To blazes with it and order them first" rather than researching any further...


----------



## stuck limo (Jan 22, 2021)

I have the stock tube on my Vali 2 (original, not Plus). Has anyone tried any tube dampers (like Herbie's  UltraSonic Rx Damping InstrumentRx-9) and did it make any difference? Or can anyone provide any silicon ring suggestions or any other solutions (if needed for the stock tube)?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 31, 2021)

Guys I have somewhat of a desire to have a Vali 2+ as a preamp between my Modius and Jotunheim 2. I don't NEED the Vali 2+, obviously, but I figured it'd be cool introducing a tube in the chain.

Is this a good idea for flavoring? And if so, what tube that isn't expensive gains a tubey sound to contrast from the solid stateyness of the Jot 2?

My Jot 2 has two free RCA inputs (one via addin rca board), so it'd be something I use every once in awhile.

It would look something like:

Modius RCA out to Vali 2+ to Jot 2 RCA in for tubey duty.

Also, Modius balanced out to Jot 2 balanced in for SS duties.

If all sounds good, what would line level be? Low gain, max pot?


I did have an og Vali, and it's still my fave sounding amp despite its shortcomings.


Mind you guys, I've used headphone amps as pre-amps to other headphones amps for years due to them being the only way to use virtual surround (so stuff like the Astro Mixamp or Senn GSX1000) into another headphone amp. Mainly because the formers were very weak amps. I'm well aware that I'd be adding all the distortion and bad traits of the Vali into the Jot 2. I'm just saying if it's worth it for the tubey nature.

I'd still have the Modius straight to Jot 2 via balanced interconnects for clean listening, so to speak.


----------



## LanceSaintPaul

stuck limo said:


> I have the stock tube on my Vali 2 (original, not Plus). Has anyone tried any tube dampers (like Herbie's  UltraSonic Rx Damping InstrumentRx-9) and did it make any difference? Or can anyone provide any silicon ring suggestions or any other solutions (if needed for the stock tube)?


Herbie's are the best I have used. Some tubes are helped more than others. I consider them mandatory & don't use without them. 

I have tried Ensemble Tube Sox (woven kevlar with copper wire), 3M material (I believe these were made by Audio Research)  which permanently bonds to the tube from the heat - don't like that, earlier versions of Herbie's, then the best - Herbie's Rx-9's. Some dampers accomplish the damping with mass, weight - these can sound over-damped (diminished dynamics).

Herbie's are my go-to.


----------



## Ichos

Hi , I have just posted the world premier written review of Schiit Vali 2+.

Headfi version

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-vali-2.24959/review/25306/

Hxosplus version

https://www.hxosplus.gr/reviews/schiit-vali-2-review/

Thank for looking and like the review if you have enjoyed it.


----------



## Pondoro

I ordered a Modi and it arrived yesterday. Sounds great. So I ordered a Vali 2+ today. I've been listening to Big Bands, searching out CD's that come from old masters. I think the Vali will be nice for that. I like a CD played in original LP song order, from an LP that was issued while the artist was still alive. With a fire in the fireplace and a glass of red wine.


----------



## CB7FB8KgYh24E

Trying out a Liquid Spark and a Magni 3+, and hands down I prefer the more rounded and pleasant sound of the LS. The Magni 3+ makes upper-ends hurt my ears for some reason, it's a lot more pleasant to me to listen to LS.

I want to try a Vali 2+, do you figure it is closer sounding to LS, or to the clean & sharp Magni 3+?


----------



## MKAJ

CB7FB8KgYh24E said:


> Trying out a Liquid Spark and a Magni 3+, and hands down I prefer the more rounded and pleasant sound of the LS. The Magni 3+ makes upper-ends hurt my ears for some reason, it's a lot more pleasant to me to listen to LS.
> 
> I want to try a Vali 2+, do you figure it is closer sounding to LS, or to the clean & sharp Magni 3+?


I am also very interested in knowing this between Vali 2+ and LS or Magni 3. 

Do you feel the Liquid Spark loses its resolution compared to Magni 3?


----------



## CB7FB8KgYh24E (Mar 10, 2021)

MKAJ said:


> I am also very interested in knowing this between Vali 2+ and LS or Magni 3.
> 
> Do you feel the Liquid Spark loses its resolution compared to Magni 3?


I don't feel that at all, I don't notice any degradation to speak about, nothing stands out to me except that my ears can relax when listening on LS. But I don't have experience with any gear outside that, or any musical knowledge etc. The upper ends are rounded off and not jab-sharp, and the low bass is noticeably cleaner, more natural, and slightly more powerful on the LS.

In another thread someone said the Vali 2 is still very analytical etc, so I personally decided to not bother with Vali 2+, and just resell the Magni 3+ and stick with the LS.

I just couldn't find an instance where the Magni 3 sounded better than the LS. Be it in gaming or music listening, as I was swapping both in and out. Yet each time the LS sounded noticeably smoother and nicer!

Other gear: Modi 3+ DAC and Hifiman 400i 2020 headphones. I was so impressed with the LS amp that I decided to order the LS DAC as well and see if it produces any difference vs the Modi 3+. It arrives tomorrow.

note: it could (and probably does) all come down to the headphones. Some are driven better by certain amps/dacs than others.


----------



## Ichos

The Vali 2+ is not too analytical.
It is as analytical as it is needed to listen to music without loosing information and not getting fatigued.


----------



## MKAJ

CB7FB8KgYh24E said:


> I don't feel that at all, I don't notice any degradation to speak about, nothing stands out to me except that my ears can relax when listening on LS. But I don't have experience with any gear outside that, or any musical knowledge etc. The upper ends are rounded off and not jab-sharp, and the low bass is noticeably cleaner, more natural, and slightly more powerful on the LS.
> 
> In another thread someone said the Vali 2 is still very analytical etc, so I personally decided to not bother with Vali 2+, and just resell the Magni 3+ and stick with the LS.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the impression! I believe it comes down to the headphones aswell.


----------



## Currawong

MKAJ said:


> I am also very interested in knowing this between Vali 2+ and LS or Magni 3.



Not the LS, but the CTH in my case I found to be slightly nicer to listen to with headphones, once the tube is upgraded. I just uploaded a review with more detail:


----------



## davidflas (May 4, 2021)

I have the original Vali2 as well, wondering if it's worth it to upgrade......


----------



## thebmc

Trying my vali 2 as a tube pre from my Mani to my vintage Yamaha integrated and I'm really enjoying the results. Definitely adds some depth. And I love this rca black plate 6sn7 😁


----------



## matts19

Hofy said:


> Yes the Vali 2 passes out a preamp signal to the amp/speakers.  The tube does play a role in the sound.  However, the pre-out is not the best preamp.  It gets the job done but is not for critical listening.


I actually prefer it this way - because I am looking to pipe it to my active speakers. It this were a pre-amp, then it would not work with my active speakers. I hope I understand this correctly...


----------



## Pondoro

matts19 said:


> I actually prefer it this way - because I am looking to pipe it to my active speakers. It this were a pre-amp, then it would not work with my active speakers. I hope I understand this correctly...


My Vali works great into active speakers.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy (Jun 6, 2021)

I’ve had a Vali 2 for a couple of years and really enjoy it. I was curious about the Vali 2+ so I ordered and it arrived today. So of course I want to do some A/B testing and comparing.
I setup a couple of SYS’s so I could easily switch back and forth while listening to get some direct comparisons.
I have a playlist of various styles I use when testing gear. I used several different sets of headphones.

I first used the stock tube that came with each.
Then swapped them.
Then I used a matched pair of GE 6DJ8.
Then two (not matched) GE JAN 5670
Those tests all came with the same conclusion:
the 2 amps are close. VERY close. but… the 2+ seemed consistently brighter…

So I put my darkest tube (Coronado 6CG7) in the 2+ and my brightest (EH 6SN7) in the 2.
Then I just started sampling a bit.

It’s not really that the 2+ is brighter, it has slightly more clarity - especially in the upper mids. It’s subtle and not noticeable on every part of a track. But it was consistent with headphones and tubes. And that clarity adds some nice sheen.
*update - 2+ is brighter*

Is it worth upgrading? I doubt it. On any setup you will notice an exponentially bigger difference with headphones. If you’re happy with Vali 2, stick with it. Enjoy rolIing tubes.
I wanted a second one for my music studio which is why I bought the second Vali.
Am I a total audio nerd and happy I bought it? Yup!

Now I’m going to do some gaming with it.


----------



## darkarn

Nice, there's one last Vali 2 (not 2+) in B-stock section


----------



## oakparkmusicguy (Jun 4, 2021)

darkarn said:


> Nice, there's one last Vali 2 (not 2+) in B-stock section


That’s definitely worth getting! I bought both of mine - and most of my schiit - from their B-Stocks.
If someone is looking at a Vali then get the B-Stock Vali 2 and enjoy! Enjoy it more by rolling tubes.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

And just for fun, here are some shots of my testing setup. Check out the 7XX with my patented hair tie mod


----------



## darkarn

oakparkmusicguy said:


> That’s definitely worth getting! I bought both of mine - and most of my schiit - from their B-Stocks.
> If someone is looking at a Vali then get the B-Stock Vali 2 and enjoy! Enjoy it more by rolling tubes.



Indeed! I got the Eitrs on closeout and they are doing awesome.!

That Vali 2 is now sold out by the way


----------



## Pondoro

I got a Modi3+ and a Vali 2+ at full price, just bought a Modi 3+ B-stock. I'd probably jump at a Vali 2+ on B stock but have not seen one for a while. While my Vali 2+ was backordered there were _*plenty*_ in B-Stock!


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

I check their B-stock almost daily


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

I changed my mind - the 2+ is definitely brighter.


----------



## Pondoro

Bought an Electro Harmonix 6922 / E88CC for my Vali 2+ and bought a 9-pin Socket Saver while I was at it. The Electro Harmonix got some good reviews around the net. I need to state here that I am totally happy with the Vali 2+ as it arrived from Schiit. But the urge to try something else became overwhelming.


----------



## jonathan c

Pondoro said:


> Bought an Electro Harmonix 6922 / E88CC for my Vali 2+ and bought a 9-pin Socket Saver while I was at it. The Electro Harmonix got some good reviews around the net. I need to state here that I am totally happy with the Vali 2+ as it arrived from Schiit. But the urge to try something else became overwhelming.


That urge can strike any HFer at any time without warning … 😐💲😳…


----------



## Pondoro (Jul 8, 2021)

The new Electro Harmonix E88CC, sitting atop a "Socket Saver." I will let it warm up for a while and then give it a serious listen. It is brighter (in the visual sense) than the original GE Canada tube.


----------



## Pondoro

OK, time for confessions. I was pretty skeptical about tube rolling. I did hear the difference between my Schiit Modi (3+) and the built in DAC on my computer's motherboard. But that was a $100 DAC versus a probably $2 chip. I also heard it when I added the Vali (2+), but it wasn't a huge difference. So I rolled the tube, originally a GE Canada, to an Electro Harmonix. I doubted I'd hear anything and, in truth, I didn't hear much. But the upper bass seems clearer. Not the low, low bass, the _*higher *_bass. Like when a guitar (not a bass guitar) is playing the bass line. Not the stuff that lights up the subwoofer. I heard it on several songs. The mid bass isn't louder, it is clearer. My system is PC>Modi 3+>Vali 2+> Klipsch R51-PM (5.25" woofers) aided by a Polk subwoofer.

I question any ego driven "I *have* to hear a difference!" placebo effect because, a) I was skeptical and b) This is a  $13 tube. I have to think it takes more than spending $13 to drag my ego somewhere that it doesn't want to go. I am open to your comments.


----------



## hodgjy

Couple of intro/stupid questions. I have the Vali 2+ and want to change the volume knob.

It just simply pulls off, right? Any chance of breaking solder joints by doing so? The pot shaft is 6 mm, correct?

TYIA


----------



## Pondoro (Aug 10, 2021)

I just tried 😊. It pulls off very easily. Now I need a chicken head knob, for that 1950’s look. I didn’t measure the shaft, I’m in a work meeting and my caliper is in the garage.


----------



## hodgjy

Pondoro said:


> I just tried 😊. It pulls off very easily. Now I need a chicken head knob, for that 1950’s look.


Thank you!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 13, 2021)

Hi guys, just wanna say that I put the recently arrived LCD-X to the test with my Vali 2+ (gold EH6922 tube) to the test, and I absolutely love how the X sounds off it.

The Vali 2+ is just the gift that keeps on giving. 

I'd choose it over any $100-$150 SS amp any day of the week.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hi guys, just wanna say that I put the recently arrived LCD-X to the test with my Vali 2+ (gold EH6922 tube) to the test, and I absolutely love how the X sounds off it.
> 
> The Vali 2+ is just the gift that keeps on giving.
> 
> I'd choose it over any $100-$150 SS amp any day of the week.


Nice! I’ve had mixed results with the EH tubes depending on the headphones. Often I find them a bit bright. But the Vali 2 / 2+ is such a great little amp!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 13, 2021)

oakparkmusicguy said:


> Nice! I’ve had mixed results with the EH tubes depending on the headphones. Often I find them a bit bright. But the Vali 2 / 2+ is such a great little amp!


Well I got the Gold pin 6922 because I was told they are the warmest/smoothest... I wanted something that contrast a typical neutral SS amp sound.,


----------



## hodgjy

I had to send mine back for warranty repair. Has anyone else had to use their warranty repair? They received it last week, but I haven't heard a peep since. Do they reply with updates? Is their repair service normally fairly quick? I suppose with the pandemic part shortages, all bets are off this time around.


----------



## InvisibleInk

hodgjy said:


> I had to send mine back for warranty repair. Has anyone else had to use their warranty repair? They received it last week, but I haven't heard a peep since. Do they reply with updates? Is their repair service normally fairly quick? I suppose with the pandemic part shortages, all bets are off this time around.


In my experience, they reply promptly to emails.


----------



## perror

Based on a friend's reccomendation I picked up a some 6h8c tubes from Taobao. Based on the markings they seem to be 1957 Fotons. They were pretty cheap around USD 20 including shipping to Malaysia. 

I wasn't expecting much but I was super surprised. These tubes have a really wide sound stage. Separation and vocals are also really good. I'm comparing against the Telefunken E188CC and the HG 6n23p and the Fotons (at least to my ears) sound better than the 2 of them. The Telefunken sound stage is certainly smaller than the Fotons.

On another note I didn't compare other aspects such as details etc but will probably listen more over the next few days. 

Here's a link to the store in case anyone is interested. 

https://m.tb.cn/h.fbRjfPV?sm=8a2adc


----------



## bcowen

perror said:


> Based on a friend's reccomendation I picked up a some 6h8c tubes from Taobao. Based on the markings they seem to be 1957 Fotons. They were pretty cheap around USD 20 including shipping to Malaysia.
> 
> I wasn't expecting much but I was super surprised. These tubes have a really wide sound stage. Separation and vocals are also really good. I'm comparing against the Telefunken E188CC and the HG 6n23p and the Fotons (at least to my ears) sound better than the 2 of them. The Telefunken sound stage is certainly smaller than the Fotons.
> 
> ...


The '50's Fotons are one of my favorite tubes. Bettered in some respects by other tubes, but unfailingly musical and always seem to get my toe tapping.  

Fellow Head-Fi'er @Deyan makes a very nice 1-piece adapter. Below is for a 7N7, but I imagine he can do the same with a 6SN7 socket.


----------



## Currawong

perror said:


> Based on a friend's reccomendation I picked up a some 6h8c tubes from Taobao. Based on the markings they seem to be 1957 Fotons. They were pretty cheap around USD 20 including shipping to Malaysia.
> 
> I wasn't expecting much but I was super surprised. These tubes have a really wide sound stage. Separation and vocals are also really good. I'm comparing against the Telefunken E188CC and the HG 6n23p and the Fotons (at least to my ears) sound better than the 2 of them. The Telefunken sound stage is certainly smaller than the Fotons.
> 
> ...


I get an error going to that link. Have you got the full URL?


----------



## perror

Oops, sorry about that, here's the full URL: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-18795943475.50.6a943e0fI1FlRR&id=576203698941


----------



## hodgjy (Sep 19, 2021)

PSA:

Absolutely do not leave your headphones plugged in when you turn the Vali 2+ on. In fact, I wouldn't even plug them in for several minutes.

My new Vali 2+ developed a static scratch sound when adjusting the volume. Schiit wanted me to send it in and they replaced the volume pot. However, the problem still remained in my repaired unit. So, since DC on the pot can cause a scratchy sound, I tested my Vali 2+ quite extensively.

Upon turn on, and even after the mute relay has disengaged, the Vali 2+ throws over 3 v (not 3 mV, but 3 whole volts) of DC offset regardless of tube used. It takes about 10 minutes to get the DC offset under 2 mV. Since my Vali 2+ was serviced and tested, I am to assume mine isn't defective and this is how the circuit works.


----------



## tafens (Sep 19, 2021)

hodgjy said:


> PSA:
> 
> Absolutely do not leave your headphones plugged in when you turn the Vali 2+ on. In fact, I wouldn't even plug them in for several minutes.
> 
> ...



I haven’t had any problems with my 2+, but curious I measured mine using a Sennheiser cable and a voltmeter to see what I would get. I plugged in the amp to power only (no input connected, volume all the way down to reduce the influence of any static on the inputs). Using the “Canada” stock tube I got with it, I plugged in the cable and put the voltmeter probes on the headphone end and flipped the power switch.

When the muting relay clicked the most I saw on any of the channels (I measured several times power cycling the amp) was between 50-100 mV that dwindled down to zero within seconds. At the longest it was between 2-3 seconds until it was down to 15 mV or so and reduced all the way down to zero (0 mV) in a further 2-3 seconds. Everything was at room temp when I first powered up the amp.

Granted, I don’t know how it is supposed to be, but going by those results I think that your unit still is wonky.

Edit: Before the muting relay clicked there was no voltage present, the meter registered just the same as when the probes were not touching anything.


----------



## hodgjy

tafens said:


> I haven’t had any problems with my 2+, but curious I measured mine using a Sennheiser cable and a voltmeter to see what I would get. I plugged in the amp to power only (no input connected, volume all the way down to reduce the influence of any static on the inputs). Using the “Canada” stock tube I got with it, I plugged in the cable and put the voltmeter probes on the headphone end and flipped the power switch.
> 
> When the muting relay clicked the most I saw on any of the channels (I measured several times power cycling the amp) was between 50-100 mV that dwindled down to zero within seconds. At the longest it was between 2-3 seconds until it was down to 15 mV or so and reduced all the way down to zero (0 mV) in a further 2-3 seconds. Everything was at room temp when I first powered up the amp.
> 
> ...


On my amp, as soon as the muting relay disengages, the DC goes from a few mV and then spikes. The first time I measured it, I had my multimeter set to 200 mV sensitivity, and it maxed it out and couldn't even give me a reading. The next time I set it to 2 V sensitivity, and I got readings above 2 v. It comes down quickly after this, but it still takes several minutes to get the points where I'd ever plug a headphone into the jack. It never gets to 0 mV. It has at least 1-2 mV at all times. I emailed Schiit again today and we'll see what they say. I did ask them to confirm if this is still defective, and if so, I wanted a new until sent to me in exchange.


----------



## Mr Trev

hodgjy said:


> On my amp, as soon as the muting relay disengages, the DC goes from a few mV and then spikes. The first time I measured it, I had my multimeter set to 200 mV sensitivity, and it maxed it out and couldn't even give me a reading. The next time I set it to 2 V sensitivity, and I got readings above 2 v. It comes down quickly after this, but it still takes several minutes to get the points where I'd ever plug a headphone into the jack. It never gets to 0 mV. It has at least 1-2 mV at all times. I emailed Schiit again today and we'll see what they say. I did ask them to confirm if this is still defective, and if so, I wanted a new until sent to me in exchange.


That really don't sound normal. I'd think you'd absolutely qualify for an exchange


----------



## DeepSpaceus

Pulled out my little Schiit stack from storage and I am shocked how good the HifiMan Arya's sound with the Vali 2. And that on LOW GAIN with the volume at only 12 o'clock. The Loki also adds some nice bass to the Arya with the low frequency at 3 o'clock. The other components are the Schiit Modi Multibit DAC and the Eitr DDC.


----------



## Pondoro

Question : I have a Vali 2+ feeding powered speakers and like it. I bought a 1950’s Magnavox stereo tube amp and had it rebuilt as a power amp (the preamp was for phono, I play CDs or PC files.) So I need a preamp and volume control for the tube amp. Thinking to use the Vali temporarily but I’ll eventually buy a new pre, either another Vali or a Saga. Has anyone compared the Vali 2+ to a Saga? I know the Saga adds inputs and a remote, I’m more interested in sound.


----------



## jonathan c

DeepSpaceus said:


> Pulled out my little Schiit stack from storage and I am shocked how good the HifiMan Arya's sound with the Vali 2. And that on LOW GAIN with the volume at only 12 o'clock. The Loki also adds some nice bass to the Arya with the low frequency at 3 o'clock. The other components are the Schiit Modi Multibit DAC and the Eitr DDC.


I’m surprised that the Schiit stack was in “schtorage”…


----------



## Pondoro (Sep 28, 2021)

The Vali 2+ is now driving a late 50's or early 60's Magnavox 185 tube amp. I got the amp "free" but dropped a fair amount having a professional rebuild it. Total sound chain is: old JVC CD player > Modi 3+ > Vali 2+ > Maggie > 1983 vintage Klipsch Heresy I speakers. The first CD is Sinatra and Basie, "It Might as Well be Swing." I do not get all the audiophile terms - but the sound is "smooth", if it is too loud the loud horns get distorted. At more moderate volume (still loud enough) the sound is just "smooth."


----------



## Illbetheone

Can anyone compare the tube sound from this with the Aune T1? I have the Aune T1 with a bunch of tubes and was looking to get the Modi and Vali 2? Can anyone chime here on this please?


----------



## InvisibleInk

Illbetheone said:


> Can anyone compare the tube sound from this with the Aune T1? I have the Aune T1 with a bunch of tubes and was looking to get the Modi and Vali 2? Can anyone chime here on this please?


The urge to tube role anything from stock is irresistible. Fortunately I didn't get too far and found this Russian electro-harmonix 6CG7 pre-amp tube. This tube is truly outstanding for the Vali 2. I'm done tube rolling with this one installed.


----------



## Illbetheone

InvisibleInk said:


> The urge to tube role anything from stock is irresistible. Fortunately I didn't get too far and found this Russian electro-harmonix 6CG7 pre-amp tube. This tube is truly outstanding for the Vali 2. I'm done tube rolling with this one installed.



Can you elaborate on how it compares to the sound of the Aune T1? It's a DAC Tube with a SS amp. Was just wondering if it was worth selling to get the Modi and Vali. It helps that most of the Aune tubes are compatible with the Vali


----------



## InvisibleInk

Illbetheone said:


> Can you elaborate on how it compares to the sound of the Aune T1? It's a DAC Tube with a SS amp. Was just wondering if it was worth selling to get the Modi and Vali. It helps that most of the Aune tubes are compatible with the Vali


 Can't do it, sorry. Just saying it's hard to stay with any stock tube, whether it be owning the Aune or the Schiit. Don't have the Aune, but I'm thrilled to own the Vali 2.


----------



## Illbetheone

InvisibleInk said:


> Can't do it, sorry. Just saying it's hard to stay with any stock tube, whether it be owning the Aune or the Schiit. Don't have the Aune, but I'm thrilled to own the Vali 2.


I know what you mean. I have a bunch of tubes for the Aune T1 and it is fun and addicting to roll different ones. I suppose I can just get the Vali and Modi from their website and return within 15 days if I don't like it.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Illbetheone said:


> I know what you mean. I have a bunch of tubes for the Aune T1 and it is fun and addicting to roll different ones. I suppose I can just get the Vali and Modi from their website and return within 15 days if I don't like it.


That is a great idea. If you do decide to return it the best way to get action from them is to reply to the invoice email they send to your inbox after you buy it. For some reason they are big on email correspondence instead of web forms and stuff like that.


----------



## Pondoro

I have the Vali 2+ and will soon have a Saga, so I can compare them. Not the others though.


----------



## adydula

The stock tube I got was microphonic...very prone to any mechanical movement near the amp....but its sonically EXCELLENT!!
Schiit replaced it with an old Channel Master branded tube...its solid. Not microphonic at all and its EXCELLENT!

I got an adapter to try a 6SN7 US Navy Sylvania and its EXCELLENT. Drives my D8000 Pros and ADX 5000 (420 ohm) cans easily.

Very, very enjoyable listen...


----------



## Ichos

adydula said:


> The stock tube I got was microphonic...very prone to any mechanical movement near the amp....but its sonically EXCELLENT!!
> Schiit replaced it with an old Channel Master branded tube...its solid. Not microphonic at all and its EXCELLENT!
> 
> I got an adapter to try a 6SN7 US Navy Sylvania and its EXCELLENT. Drives my D8000 Pros and ADX 5000 (420 ohm) cans easily.
> ...


Hey that's a big tube!


----------



## adydula

Ichos said:


> Hey that's a big tube!


I had a bunch of 6SN7's from my Lyr 3...sold most but kept this one favorite!


----------



## InvisibleInk

adydula said:


> I had a bunch of 6SN7's from my Lyr 3...sold most but kept this one favorite!


Hi, where'd you get the adapter?


----------



## Ichos

adydula said:


> I had a bunch of 6SN7's from my Lyr 3...sold most but kept this one favorite!


Why have you sold the Lyr 3?
I have reviewed it and I am very tempted into buying one...


----------



## jonathan c

Ichos said:


> Why have you sold the Lyr 3?
> I have reviewed it and I am very tempted into buying one...


I think that he sold 6SN7 tubes and kept a favourite…


----------



## jonathan c

I own and really enjoy the Lyr 3: wonderful sound quality via 6SN7 type tubes. I like the notion of a “one-tube” roll and I will stay within the 5692 / 6N8S / 6SN7 category.


----------



## Mr Trev

InvisibleInk said:


> Hi, where'd you get the adapter?


You can find all kind of adapters on eBay. I has ones that'll let me use 12au7, 5670, 6sn7, ecc40 in my Vali2
You can also check out this guy: https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/custom-tube-socket-adapters.11214/
I got a 7N7 adapter from him that works without a second socket saver/adapter (like the second pic in the ad)


----------



## adydula

InvisibleInk said:


> Hi, where'd you get the adapter?


tube depot in Tenn....


----------



## adydula

Ichos said:


> Why have you sold the Lyr 3?
> I have reviewed it and I am very tempted into buying one...


Just because I have so or so many amps here....Its a great amp...but no better or worse than many others....just selling stuff that I dont use alot...honestly I go thru amps like cold beer at times!! LOL!!


----------



## jonathan c

Ichos said:


> Hey that's a big tube!


…a little close to a porn flick line 😳…


----------



## jonathan c

adydula said:


> Just because I have so or so many amps here....Its a great amp...but no better or worse than many others....just selling stuff that I dont use alot...honestly I go thru amps like cold beer at times!! LOL!!


…brings to mind the old saying: “you only rent beer”…


----------



## adydula

jonathan c said:


> …a little close to a porn flick line 😳…


ok lets keep it clean !!! lol!


----------



## G0rt

🤔


----------



## InvisibleInk

adydula said:


> tube depot in Tenn....



I wonder if you can take a look at this link to Tube Depot's products and then search for *adapters* and help me choose. Schiit says on the FAQ page for Vali 2 that the Vali 2 uses a 6DJ8 pinout. I also sent Tube Depot's sales email address an inquiry.


----------



## senorx12562

InvisibleInk said:


> I wonder if you can take a look at this link to Tube Depot's products and then search for *adapters* and help me choose. Schiit says on the FAQ page for Vali 2 that the Vali 2 uses a 6DJ8 pinout. I also sent Tube Depot's sales email address an inquiry.


Ime, you need both the 6sn7 to 6922 adapter and a 6922 socket saver to get the 6sn7 above the top of the amp because the diameter of the 6sn7 is too large for the hole in the top of the amp, as in @adydula's pic above.


----------



## adydula

and one of these:



$2.49

add shipping and tax..
Alex


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> You can find all kind of adapters on eBay. I has ones that'll let me use 12au7, 5670, 6sn7, ecc40 in my Vali2
> You can also check out this guy: https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/custom-tube-socket-adapters.11214/
> I got a 7N7 adapter from him that works without a second socket saver/adapter (like the second pic in the ad)


Me too.  Mine's a 7N7 adapter, but same base size as a 6SN7.


----------



## InvisibleInk

adydula said:


> and one of these:
> 
> $2.49
> 
> ...



Thanks!


----------



## MacMan31

Has anyone here used the Vali 2 as a tube preamp between a DAC and a stereo amp? Would be nice to have something small like this to get some tube flavour for my speakers.


----------



## Pondoro (Dec 26, 2021)

MacMan31 said:


> Has anyone here used the Vali 2 as a tube preamp between a DAC and a stereo amp? Would be nice to have something small like this to get some tube flavour for my speakers.


I have a Computer > Modi 3+> Vali 2+> Klipsch powered speakers. I use it for online concerts and playing ripped files. The addition of the Vali in front of the powered Klipsch speakers was noticeable, but subtle. The sound became "smoother." I do not know how to define "smoother", but that is what happened.  I started with the original tube and then rolled it to an Electro-Harmonix E88CC. That change was also subtle, the upper bass notes (trombone, or the lower strings on a 6-string guitar) became clearer. I did not notice any other effect.

I have also used the combination CD player > Modi 3+> Vali 2+ > Ancient Magnavox tube amp. I eventually replaced the Vali with a Saga. The Saga is relatively new and I am still deciding what effect I hear. The sound has changed, but I am at a loss to say exactly _*what*_ changed.


----------



## MacMan31

Pondoro said:


> I have a Computer > Modi 3+> Vali 2+> Klipsch powered speakers. I use it for online concerts and playing ripped files. The addition of the Vali in front of the powered Klipsch speakers was noticeable, but subtle. The sound became "smoother." I do not know how to define "smoother", but that is what happened.  I started with the original tube and then rolled it to an Electro-Harmonix E88CC. That change was also subtle, the upper bass notes (trombone, or the lower strings on a 6-string guitar) became clearer. I did not notice any other effect.
> 
> I have also used the combination CD player > Modi 3+> Vali 2+ > Ancient Magnavox tube amp. I eventually replaced the Vali with a Saga. I am still deciding what effect I hear. The sound has changed, but I am at a loss to say exactly what changed.



So with your desktop setup you are adjusting the volume via the Vali 2 or Klipsch speakers? For me it would be a pain to get up every time I wanted to change the volume. My stereo setup is for both movies and music in my "man cave". So I would be adjusting the volume on the integrated stereo amp. I would need to set the volume and gain on the Vali 2 and leave it alone. What would be the best setting to put it at?


----------



## Pondoro (Dec 26, 2021)

MacMan31 said:


> So with your desktop setup you are adjusting the volume via the Vali 2 or Klipsch speakers? For me it would be a pain to get up every time I wanted to change the volume. My stereo setup is for both movies and music in my "man cave". So I would be adjusting the volume on the integrated stereo amp. I would need to set the volume and gain on the Vali 2 and leave it alone. What would be the best setting to put it at?


There is a remote for the Klipsch speakers, it ALWAYS stays next to an easy chair. (Yelling intended. Lost remotes are the only negative in an otherwise blissful marriage. We both blame the other party.) When I am alone I sit in the easy chair after first adjusting the computer and the Vali volume to give the Klipsch remote the ability to control the maximum volume that I want. (the remote can also mute) When my wife is around I sit at the computer or on a sofa, my wife sits in the easy chair. She then has the Klipsch remote. If I am on the sofa I then have zero control of the volume, if I stay at the computer I can of course reduce the volume, but I generally defer to her. I typically max the PC and 3/4 the Vali - this gives her the control she likes with the Klipsch remote. Some broadcasts are louder or softer, so sometimes the Vali is also maxed.

Edit: Just read your post more carefully. You can set the Vali where you like and control the volume as you have been doing. You would want to experiment with the Vali setting.


----------



## LanceSaintPaul

Mr Trev said:


> You can find all kind of adapters on eBay. I has ones that'll let me use 12au7, 5670, 6sn7, ecc40 in my Vali2
> You can also check out this guy: https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/custom-tube-socket-adapters.11214/
> I got a 7N7 adapter from him that works without a second socket saver/adapter (like the second pic in the ad)


How can you use a 12au7 in your Vali2? That's a 12 volt heater not a 6 volt which is what the Vali2 supplies.


----------



## bcowen

LanceSaintPaul said:


> How can you use a 12au7 in your Vali2? That's a 12 volt heater not a 6 volt which is what the Vali2 supplies.


The 12AU7 (and 12AT7 and 12AX7) are all designed to run with either 6.3v or 12.6v on the heaters, selectable by wiring the heater pins in series or in parallel.


----------



## Mr Trev

LanceSaintPaul said:


> How can you use a 12au7 in your Vali2? That's a 12 volt heater not a 6 volt which is what the Vali2 supplies.


That's what the car battery in my listening room is for.

Seriously, what @bcowen said. My adapter is wired to run the 12au7 on 6v.

… thinking bout it now… are there any amps in the headphonesphere that do run 12A*7 tubes on 12v? I'm only familiar with the Project Solstice which has an optional 12v heater setting (I asked the designer if there was even any benefit using the 12v setting. Was told no, it's specifically for 12v only tubes like the 12SN7)


----------



## jonathan c

Mr Trev said:


> That's what the car battery in my listening room is for.
> 
> Seriously, what @bcowen said. My adapter is wired to run the 12au7 on 6v.
> 
> … thinking bout it now… are there any amps in the headphonesphere that do run 12A*7 tubes on 12v? I'm only familiar with the Project Solstice which has an optional 12v heater setting (I asked the designer if there was even any benefit using the 12v setting. Was told no, it's specifically for 12v only tubes like the 12SN7)


I believe that the Linear Tube Audio MZ3 does. It does take 12AT7 without adapters. There is also a 6SN7 / 12SN7 switch in the MZ3. I _assume_ that, when 12SN7 tubes are used, the 12AT7 tubes are also run on 12 volts.


----------



## tafens

MacMan31 said:


> Has anyone here used the Vali 2 as a tube preamp between a DAC and a stereo amp? Would be nice to have something small like this to get some tube flavour for my speakers.


Yes, I have a Vali2+ hooked up to an Aegir speaker amp with a Modi Multibit DAC feeding the Vali, the Modi being connected to the TV optical out. I really like the sound!

As a bonus, it makes it possible to watch TV using headphones as well


----------



## senorx12562

MacMan31 said:


> Has anyone here used the Vali 2 as a tube preamp between a DAC and a stereo amp? Would be nice to have something small like this to get some tube flavour for my speakers.


I found the Vali 2 (v1.1 according to the board) to be too noisy from the pre-outs to use in front of a speaker amp. The 2+ is probably quieter, but I haven't tried it.


----------



## Pondoro (Dec 27, 2021)

senorx12562 said:


> I found the Vali 2 (v1.1 according to the board) to be too noisy from the pre-outs to use in front of a speaker amp. The 2+ is probably quieter, but I haven't tried it.


In Jason's Book (Go to page one of the "Schiit Happened" thread, 2020, Chapter 14), Jason states that the noise floor was lowered for the latest version of the Vali. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-4447#post-15969387

I never heard the old version, I am happy with the new version.


----------



## tafens

senorx12562 said:


> I found the Vali 2 (v1.1 according to the board) to be too noisy from the pre-outs to use in front of a speaker amp. The 2+ is probably quieter, but I haven't tried it.





Pondoro said:


> In Jason's Book (Go to page one of the "Schiit Happened" thread, 2020, Chapter 14), Jason states that the noise floor was lowered for the latest version of the Vali. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-4447#post-15969387
> 
> I never heard the old version, I am happy with the new version.


I have the new version, Vali2+, and to me it’s dead quiet both on pre-outs and headphones. I have no experience with the old version though.


----------



## bcowen

tafens said:


> I have the new version, Vali2+, and to me it’s dead quiet both on pre-outs and headphones. I have no experience with the old version though.


I have the older version (non-plus), and it's as quiet as a church mouse with HP's and through the line output.  Of course, a noisy tube can change all that pretty quickly.


----------



## davidflas

senorx12562 said:


> I found the Vali 2 (v1.1 according to the board) to be too noisy from the pre-outs to use in front of a speaker amp. The 2+ is probably quieter, but I haven't tried it.


I have the original version, using the stock tube, it’s been dead silent for me. I have’t done any tube rolling yet.


----------



## Mr Trev

MacMan31 said:


> Has anyone here used the Vali 2 as a tube preamp between a DAC and a stereo amp? Would be nice to have something small like this to get some tube flavour for my speakers.


So I finally caved and decided to plug my Vali2 into my Sansui B55 amp. Nice and quiet with the cleartop 6cg7 that's currently in there. Listening to some proggy rock/metal and it's sounding pretty darn good through my Paradigm speakers
The headphone out on the Sansui does fall pretty flat with my A2C however (sounds good with the 58x) so it's probably not going to become a fulltime headphone amp - unless somebody can convince me its worth making some speaker taps


----------



## ardbeg1975

I dusted off my Vali 2+ today after a long period of nonuse and being in an experimental mood, plugged in (via a series of socket saver and adapter) a 1950s-era 6N8S MELZ tube and sourced the amp from a Yggy LIM. This little amp sounds awesome.


----------



## emorrison33

I've had my Vali2 for almost 1 1/2 years now.  Still amazed how good this little amp is for the money.  I have the Psvane 6SN7-UK in there now, with the Hemps.  It's the little amp that could!  Had to put Merlin in the picture.


----------



## TinearedOne

senorx12562 said:


> I found the Vali 2 (v1.1 according to the board) to be too noisy from the pre-outs to use in front of a speaker amp. The 2+ is probably quieter, but I haven't tried it.


I found that to be the case with the stock tube, but not with the EH 6922 I have in there now.  I'd roll a tube or two if you use it as a speaker amp.  Running mine through a Rotel RB-1050 and Energy RC-10 speakers, and it sounds clean without any hiss in the background.


----------



## LanceSaintPaul

I just ordered the 12au7 adapter from Deyan. 
I have a large stash of 12au7's...
Thanks for the tip.


----------



## senorx12562

TinearedOne said:


> I found that to be the case with the stock tube, but not with the EH 6922 I have in there now.  I'd roll a tube or two if you use it as a speaker amp.  Running mine through a Rotel RB-1050 and Energy RC-10 speakers, and it sounds clean without any hiss in the background.


I've tried like 5 different tubes, and while some are quieter than others, they were all too noisy for me for use as a pre. Actually, I have never had a headamp with pre-outs that was quiet enough. I gave up and bought a dedicated preamp-problem solved. Wanted a remote anyway.


----------



## TinearedOne

senorx12562 said:


> I've tried like 5 different tubes, and while some are quieter than others, they were all too noisy for me for use as a pre. Actually, I have never had a headamp with pre-outs that was quiet enough. I gave up and bought a dedicated preamp-problem solved. Wanted a remote anyway.


Could just be manufacturing tolerances.


----------



## matts19

Not sure if anyone mentioned this.... but Vali 2+ hum is very much related to the DAC power source... yes it sound weird but true. It was noisy with my Topping e30 when e30 was powered by my computer USB or power strip USB port, but when e30 was powered by a battery bank, the hum in Vali 2+ completely disappeared... as in dead silent. After a while I purchased another DAC (Denafrips Ares 2) which was powered by the thick 110v power cable into outlet, and again, Vali 2+ was completely dead silent with it. So my conclusion is that USB power source is very noise and dirty to the point of negatively affecting Vali 2+. When I originally asked Schiit about this nagging noise they made all the standard excuses like all tube amps hum, get a noise isolator block, etc.... but I wish they knew about this and shared this info with all Vali 2+ owners.... "just run your DAC from clean power source like a battery pack or over 110v power cable, not USB".

Otherwise vali 2+ is really amazing with Genalex e88cc Gold Lion. Just throw away the stock tube, it is garbage... with the Genalex one, whew, this thing sounds so amazing!


----------



## bcowen (Feb 14, 2022)

matts19 said:


> Not sure if anyone mentioned this.... but Vali 2+ hum is very much related to the DAC power source... yes it sound weird but true. It was noisy with my Topping e30 when e30 was powered by my computer USB or power strip USB port, but when e30 was powered by a battery bank, the hum in Vali 2+ completely disappeared... as in dead silent. After a while I purchased another DAC (Denafrips Ares 2) which was powered by the thick 110v power cable into outlet, and again, Vali 2+ was completely dead silent with it. So my conclusion is that USB power source is very noise and dirty to the point of negatively affecting Vali 2+. When I originally asked Schiit about this nagging noise they made all the standard excuses like all tube amps hum, get a noise isolator block, etc.... but I wish they knew about this and shared this info with all Vali 2+ owners.... "just run your DAC from clean power source like a battery pack or over 110v power cable, not USB".
> 
> Otherwise vali 2+ is really amazing with Genalex e88cc Gold Lion. Just throw away the stock tube, it is garbage... with the Genalex one, whew, this thing sounds so amazing!


Very good info!  I've always used mine with a Modi Multibit DAC, but with a Schiit EITR between the computer's USB and the Modi.  The EITR (unfortunately discontinued) converted the USB to S/PDIF and eliminated the USB noise in the process.  Never thought about that before, but perhaps that's why (or at least partly why) my Vali 2 has always been dead quiet.


----------



## Pondoro

My Vali is dead quiet but I have always fed it with a Modi 3 that has the better USB (So I guess I believe the USB claims that Schiit makes).


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Very good info!  I've always used mine with a Modi Multibit DAC, but with a Schiit EITR between the computer's USB and the Modi.  The EITR (unfortunately discontinued) converted the USB to S/PDIF and eliminated the USB noise in the process.  Never thought about that before, but perhaps that's why (or at least partly why) my Vali 2 has always been dead quiet.


Doesn't the Modi use a wallwart style LPS like the Vali?
Never had an issue with my Topping D30, but it does have a dedicated power source. If I did have a DAC that was USB powered I think I'd probably opt for a battery bank, but I've read Allo has some good power supplies - both linear and SPS (better than ifi's stuff, from the review I read)


----------



## LanceSaintPaul

matts19 said:


> Otherwise vali 2+ is really amazing with Genalex e88cc Gold Lion. Just throw away the stock tube, it is garbage... with the Genalex one, whew, this thing sounds so amazing!


Which stock tube was that?
Thing is there is not necessarily a standard "stock tube". Some of the ones you might receive are just fine. Just depends on what they had in stock at the time of your order.
(I am currently going through a wide variety of 6BQ7's to see what's what...haven't heard any garbage yet....)


----------



## Pondoro

I’ve used a Modi with USB power and with the wall plug. I’ve never had noise with a ValI nor with my Saga. I’ve only used the wall plug into the Modi with a Saga, but I’ve done both with the Vali. Right now a computer feeds the Vali power and signal through the same USB cable. No noise. But I realize noise is a somewhat uncertain thing. Change one component and it might come or go. My experience, though, is that Schiit’s Unison USB works great.  I know there are skeptics.


----------



## InvisibleInk

matts19 said:


> Just throw away the stock tube,



Probably better to save it, just in case you want to reassemble the whole package for resale someday.


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Doesn't the Modi use a wallwart style LPS like the Vali?
> Never had an issue with my Topping D30, but it does have a dedicated power source. If I did have a DAC that was USB powered I think I'd probably opt for a battery bank, but I've read Allo has some good power supplies - both linear and SPS (better than ifi's stuff, from the review I read)


Yup, it uses a wal-wart with an AC output making it basically just a step-down transformer. Same as the Vali 2 in that regard. And the Modi gets all its power from that wal-wart and doesn't need the 5v from the USB bus.  But if being fed data via USB, all that noise is still riding along and that's where the EITR helps I think. I have another EITR in the big rig feeding a (120v powered) Cary DAC when I'm streaming, and it makes a nice improvement there as well.  If a DAC is getting power solely from the 5v on the USB bus, then that is a potential source of noise. But even if not, USB can be noisy as hell (depending on the quality of the hardware) and isolating it has to help.


----------



## bcowen

Pondoro said:


> I’ve used a Modi with USB power and with the wall plug. I’ve never had noise with a ValI nor with my Saga. I’ve only used the wall plug into the Modi with a Saga, but I’ve done both with the Vali. Right now a *computer feeds the Vali power *and signal through the same USB cable. No noise. But I realize noise is a somewhat uncertain thing. Change one component and it might come or go. My experience, though, is that Schiit’s Unison USB works great.  I know there are skeptics.


You mean the computer feeds the Modi (not the Vali), yes?

My Modi multibit is pre-Unison.  But my Bifrost 2 has Unison, and no noise at all with it fed directly from the computer.


----------



## Pondoro

bcowen said:


> You mean the computer feeds the Modi (not the Vali), yes?
> 
> My Modi multibit is pre-Unison.  But my Bifrost 2 has Unison, and no noise at all with it fed directly from the computer.


Right. PC>Modi>Vali with no wall power to the Modi. But I have also run CD Player >Modi> Vali and then the Modi requires a wall wart. Both my Modis have the Unison USB.


----------



## adydula

The "stock tube"....Hmm...

When I got my Vali 2 + I got a NOS tube that sonically IMO was just fine. But it was very sensitive, ie microphonic....as long as we didnt touch it or bang on the desk etc it was fine...Schiit sent me a replacement and it was a different brand of the same tube type...totally solid, not mircrophonic at all...and its sounds just fine to me. 

So the comment throw away the stock tube is well....there may not be a stock tube one day or week that is the same as a stock tube delivered with stuff the next day, week or batch of stuff..

The only thing that stock tube means to me is the one that comes with the unit. Good or Bad.

YMMV...


----------



## Pondoro

My Vali sounds good with the stock tube. I bought an ElectroHarmonix and noticed a slight improvement. I’m not ready to go on a search for a holy grail tube, I’m pretty happy. I may buy an adapter and try a 6SN7, because, you know, I can.


----------



## TinearedOne

My Vali 2 noise floor is a little tube dependent.  Right now, I'm trying a 6N1P tube in there, and it is pretty sensitive to every little bit of noise.  The 6922 I had in there before was quieter, but it was also more boring.  The 6N1P has more resolution without being fatiguing.  Still looking for the ideal tube.  I didn't love the stock tube - maybe a bad one.

Anyone have any suggestions?  I have always liked the sound of the amp, and a little hum doesn't bother me.  At the moment, I'd rank them just like I described.  It'd be nice to find a tube a little less microphonic than the 6N1P - I suspect they're all a little bit that way - that sounds as good.


----------



## senorx12562

TinearedOne said:


> My Vali 2 noise floor is a little tube dependent.  Right now, I'm trying a 6N1P tube in there, and it is pretty sensitive to every little bit of noise.  The 6922 I had in there before was quieter, but it was also more boring.  The 6N1P has more resolution without being fatiguing.  Still looking for the ideal tube.  I didn't love the stock tube - maybe a bad one.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions?  I have always liked the sound of the amp, and a little hum doesn't bother me.  At the moment, I'd rank them just like I described.  It'd be nice to find a tube a little less microphonic than the 6N1P - I suspect they're all a little bit that way - that sounds as good.


My favorite for a couple years was the new production EH 6cg7 (out of what I had tried; I don't spend big on tubes for a $100 amp) until I tried my new favorite, the GE 5670W. Cheap as well, though they do require an adapter.


----------



## Mr Trev

TinearedOne said:


> My Vali 2 noise floor is a little tube dependent.  Right now, I'm trying a 6N1P tube in there, and it is pretty sensitive to every little bit of noise.  The 6922 I had in there before was quieter, but it was also more boring.  The 6N1P has more resolution without being fatiguing.  Still looking for the ideal tube.  I didn't love the stock tube - maybe a bad one.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions?  I have always liked the sound of the amp, and a little hum doesn't bother me.  At the moment, I'd rank them just like I described.  It'd be nice to find a tube a little less microphonic than the 6N1P - I suspect they're all a little bit that way - that sounds as good.


My understanding is noise & microphonic are very tube specific. You might be able to get an identical 6n1p and it'll be silent. FWIW, if you're looking at Russian/Soviet tubes you should get the military spec tubes (-ev -ep, something like that) for lower noise.


----------



## adydula

Tube construction has ALOT to do with whether a tube tends to be microphonic or sensitive.
The element that are inside the tube are mechanical structures that are mounted in the glass base and soldered to the pins in the base as well.
The length, geometry and construction all can make a tube more or less sensitive....
It happens in all types of tubes to some extent.
Add the heat temps and heating and cooling cycles its amazing they work as well as they do.

When you get a solid tube....save that one and enjoy!


----------



## PhenixS1970

Hi All, Schiit Vali 2 bundle listed in classifieds, EU sale only .


----------



## Willy 2 Streams

Just got a new Vali 2 'bout a month ago. My 1st listening impression with the stock tube  was "Gad...they weren't kidding when they said it had a lot more distortion than their Magni 3 +!" A lot like my Asgard 2 as to overall warmth,  but with a layer of crud over it. Adding the GE 5670 tube with adapter cleaned this right up! Pretty close to my Asgard 2, now. Not gonna go much further down the tube rolling rabbit hole until I see where the global tube market is going...probably won't regardless. It's a nice little tube hybrid at this price point, but it is what it is....


----------



## adydula

Willy 2 Streams said:


> Just got a new Vali 2 'bout a month ago. My 1st listening impression with the stock tube  was "Gad...they weren't kidding when they said it had a lot more distortion than their Magni 3 +!" A lot like my Asgard 2 as to overall warmth,  but with a layer of crud over it. Adding the GE 5670 tube with adapter cleaned this right up! Pretty close to my Asgard 2, now. Not gonna go much further down the tube rolling rabbit hole until I see where the global tube market is going...probably won't regardless. It's a nice little tube hybrid at this price point, but it is what it is....


LOL!

Wait for a few years after spending lots of bucks on amps and stuff...and then come back to this little amp.....


----------



## Willy 2 Streams

OK...so whaddaya recommend as the best bang for the buck tube for this amp, with HD 650's?


----------



## adydula

Willy 2 Streams said:


> OK...so whaddaya recommend as the best bang for the buck tube for this amp, with HD 650's?


The stock Channel Master on that came with mine is as good as any other tube I have tried....seriously.


----------



## Ichos

Willy 2 Streams said:


> OK...so whaddaya recommend as the best bang for the buck tube for this amp, with HD 650's?


Gold Lion 6922.


----------



## inmytaxi

Ichos said:


> Gold Lion 6922.


Mullard ecc84 with appropriate adapter. $10 and $5 plus postage iirc, under $30 arrives in 2 and 3 weeks.


----------



## ardbeg1975

inmytaxi said:


> Mullard ecc84 with appropriate adapter. $10 and $5 plus postage iirc, under $30 arrives in 2 and 3 weeks.


Foton 6N8S (6SN7 equivalent) with suitable adapter.


----------



## exchez

How important are balanced triodes for the Vali 2+? I have a couple tubes to choose from. One E88CC has 8% matched triodes and the other is about 1%.


----------



## adydula

I doubt that you will hear a difference..


----------



## Pondoro

exchez said:


> How important are balanced triodes for the Vali 2+? I have a couple tubes to choose from. One E88CC has 8% matched triodes and the other is about 1%.


It would be an awesome test (I do not disagree with the post that expresses doubts you'll hear a difference.) Too bad one isn't 20% unbalanced... That would be a great test.


----------



## ardbeg1975

adydula said:


> LOL!
> 
> Wait for a few years after spending lots of bucks on amps and stuff...and then come back to this little amp.....


Guilty.


----------



## adydula

I have many tubes here, and with varying matching...none really show any realistic discernible difference in audio "quality" or attributes.

The matching if done for the ability if a tube to amplify would affect the amplification "output" dependent on the tube circuit voltage bias.

One way to "try" to tell if there is a difference would be to accurately level match with a very well coupled measuring device by setting the input drive levels
exactly the same and measure the db out with a power meter or audio mic transducer measurement device.

This would be a difference in the left vs right channel amplitude which could in "extreme" cases and ciruit design might show a level imbalance between channels.

Alex


----------



## senorx12562

I generally don't go searching too hard for schiit that I can't hear to start with.


----------



## inmytaxi

adydula said:


> I have many tubes here, and with varying matching...none really show any realistic discernible difference in audio "quality" or attributes.
> 
> The matching if done for the ability if a tube to amplify would affect the amplification "output" dependent on the tube circuit voltage bias.
> 
> ...


I can hear a huge difference between stock and, say, a $200 telefunken that came with another amp. I don't necessarily prefer the expensive one though. Frankly I like the slightly dirty Valvo cc84 with it's wide soundstage that beats the Telefunken to my ears but lacks the stage height. Frankly these cc84 are the first time I can hear less 'height' in soundstage.


----------



## adydula

This goes to show how we all hear differently...."huge" to me means a really "BIG" difference....


----------



## adydula

Now who is brave enough to define "BIG" ?

:>)


----------



## rodel808

Long time Lyr 2 user here thinking about downsizing to a Valid 2+. Does the Vali become too hot to touch for about 5 seconds like how the Lyr 2 does after like an hour or 2 of usage?  Skipped the Lyr 3 because all my tubes would require a new adapter while I believe Lyr 2 and Vali 2+ uses the same socket therefore all my tubes are still usable.


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Now who is brave enough to define "BIG" ?
> 
> :>)


BIG _what_? Please define.  

Here's big tube.  Does that count?


----------



## Mr Trev (May 5, 2022)

rodel808 said:


> Long time Lyr 2 user here thinking about downsizing to a Valid 2+. Does the Vali become too hot to touch for about 5 seconds like how the Lyr 2 does after like an hour or 2 of usage?  Skipped the Lyr 3 because all my tubes would require a new adapter while I believe Lyr 2 and Vali 2+ uses the same socket therefore all my tubes are still usable.


I can't compare to a Lyr, but I've never thought my Vali gets "hot". Sure it's warm, but nothing like my class A Little Bear P1. Heck, if I wasn't such a flinchy little girl, I'd probably be doing tube swaps on the fly


----------



## adydula (May 5, 2022)

bcowen said:


> BIG _what_? Please define.
> 
> Here's big tube.  Does that count?


Ha! Just like Schiit, I wont define BIG, thats for all of you to do!!
If some tubes have dramatic or BIG differences what are they ?

Oh my here we go again!
Now thats big tube, but there are alot bigger eh!!

:>)


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Ha! Just like Schiit, I cant define BIG, that all of you to do!!
> If some tubes have dramatic or BIG differences what are they ?
> 
> Oh my here we go again!
> ...


Yup, much bigger ones out there.  That's just the biggest one I have.


----------



## jonathan c

Mr Trev said:


> I can't compare to a Lyr, but I've never thought my Vali gets "hot". Sure it's warm, but nothing like my class A Little Bear P1. Heck, if I wasn't such a flinchy little girl, I'd probably be doing tube swaps on the fly


with wet hands and a dry martini…🤪😳


----------



## Ichos

rodel808 said:


> Long time Lyr 2 user here thinking about downsizing to a Valid 2+. Does the Vali become too hot to touch for about 5 seconds like how the Lyr 2 does after like an hour or 2 of usage?  Skipped the Lyr 3 because all my tubes would require a new adapter while I believe Lyr 2 and Vali 2+ uses the same socket therefore all my tubes are still usable.


No it doesn't get hot, only mildly warm.


----------



## Willy 2 Streams

adydula said:


> LOL!
> 
> Wait for a few years after spending lots of bucks on amps and stuff...and then come back to this little amp.....


OK, Adydula...you were right! I took that little Vali 2 to my downstairs system, compared it head to head with the little all tubed EarMax OTL amp that I have been using for *25* years. While the Vali 2 was not _quite_ as tubey as the EarMax, with the GE 5670/adapter it is _close enough_ that I have retired my EarMax for the time being. I am _really liking_ this little Vali 2, and can hardly wait to hear what it'll do with a 6SN7 tube, once I can get the adapter.   And that, with the volume pot _barely cracked,_ because it doesn't sound near as good in low gain mode...no doubt the negative feedback. Headphones are HD 650's.


----------



## adydula

Willy 2 Streams said:


> OK, Adydula...you were right! I took that little Vali 2 to my downstairs system, compared it head to head with the little all tubed EarMax OTL amp that I have been using for *25* years. While the Vali 2 was not _quite_ as tubey as the EarMax, with the GE 5670/adapter it is _close enough_ that I have retired my EarMax for the time being. I am _really liking_ this little Vali 2, and can hardly wait to hear what it'll do with a 6SN7 tube, once I can get the adapter.  And that, with the volume pot _barely cracked,_ because it doesn't sound near as good in low gain mode...no doubt the negative feedback. Headphones are HD 650's.


I have HD650's as well and they work very well with the Vali 2+....enjoy!!


----------



## AnalogEuphoria

Ichos said:


> Gold Lion 6922.



Bit agressive and edgy sounding tube though, could ruin the 650s legendary smoothness.


----------



## Ichos

AnalogEuphoria said:


> Bit agressive and edgy sounding tube though, could ruin the 650s legendary smoothness.


I wouldn't call it agressive but rather transparent and with solid state qualities.
Still not as warm as other variants.
It needs at least 200 hours to mellow and not sound edgy.


----------



## Echoic

Loving my Vali 2+ so far. Anyone have recommendations on a tube with a more laid back sound?


----------



## exchez

Echoic said:


> Loving my Vali 2+ so far. Anyone have recommendations on a tube with a more laid back sound?


----------



## exchez

I have a 1969 USA Amperex 6922 that's pretty relaxed sounding compared to other 6DJ8 variants. I think any 60's era USA Amperex would be comparable.


----------



## Echoic

exchez said:


> I have a 1969 USA Amperex 6922 that's pretty relaxed sounding compared to other 6DJ8 variants. I think any 60's era USA Amperex would be comparable.


Oh wow, didn't expect a recommendation like that. But that sounds really nice. I'll definitely check this out. Thank you


----------



## adydula (Jul 28, 2022)

Just bought a quad of 6BZ7's for a grand total of $15.
Yup $15. 15/4= $3.75 each.
New, NIB...

Popped one in and feeding it with an MHDT Orchid NOS dac w/tube buffer to the Vali 2+ into my D8000 Pros, high gain...and its
a solid 9+ here...

Just goes to show u dont have to take out a loan for good tubes that perform very, very well....

Ah!
Life is good!

:>)


----------



## Willy 2 Streams

Howsa bout the no label JJ  6922s? I got three of em right before the Russian embargo hit, about $22.00 ea from Tube Depot. They're smoother sounding than the GE 5670's I was using by quite a bit. Like 'em a LOT! That said, just ordered a NOS Sylvania 6CG7, the closest thing to a 6SN7, only you don't need an adapter. Tube rolling...wheeee!  Quite the rabbit hole.


----------



## timb5881

What is the lowest impedance headphones that can be used safely on the Vali 2?   I have an ancient pair of Koss ESP6 electrostatic headphones with a 1/4” jack.  The best I can find is that the impedance vari s between 4 and 8 ohms.   These have transformers in the ear cups and originally had a transfer box to allow you to hook them up to a speaker amp. I have tried them on the Vali 2. And I get great volume at 3/4 volume , about 8-9 o’clock position.


----------



## Willy 2 Streams

timb5881 said:


> What is the lowest impedance headphones that can be used safely on the Vali 2?   I have an ancient pair of Koss ESP6 electrostatic headphones with a 1/4” jack.  The best I can find is that the impedance vari s between 4 and 8 ohms.   These have transformers in the ear cups and originally had a transfer box to allow you to hook them up to a speaker amp. I have tried them on the Vali 2. And I get great volume at 3/4 volume , about 8-9 o’clock position.


Don't think you'll get any more power much less than 50 ohms. But if the amp isn't overheating or blowing up, I guess you're good.  The output devices are SS.


----------



## Willy 2 Streams

Rolled in that 6CG7 (actually an RCA). I was actually _mildly startled_ at the difference from the JJ 6922. Everything sounded _much_ more relaxed, and pulled apart...by which I mean the soundstage was much wider. The players don't sound like they're sitting in each others lap now, though I wasn't aware of that impression with the JJ 6922's, except in retrospect. Wondering how much of this is because of the higher plate voltage, or is it the greater physical separation of the elements in this tube? Interesting stuff!


----------



## Echoic

Got my new tube today - a JJE88C and this thing is so laid back. I feel like I’m actually getting the real tube experience now. Only thing I dislike about it is how dim it is. I miss the bright glow of the stock tube.


----------



## Willy 2 Streams

Pretty interesting, how you've got that Loki equalized. Guess you _rilly _like a lotta BASS!


----------



## XERO1 (Aug 24, 2022)

*Update!* 

A new *Vali 2++* _(yes, that's what it's actually called)_ is coming _really_ soon!



Jason Stoddard said:


> Just a quick update or two, as I get ready to head back to Corpus Christi:
> 
> *2. You'll soon be able to buy the dumbest-named product from us, ever.* As in, Vali 2++. Yes, Vali 2 Plus Plus. Yes, I know it's stupid. We were gonna go to just Vali Plus, but the chassis still have Vali 2 screened on the front and back. So Vali 2++. Why are we stupid like this? Because we need to switch tube types. It looks like we've literally used up every 6BZ7 on the planet. So, while Vali 2 and Vali 2+ used 6BZ7 (or 6922/ECC88/6DJ8, etc), Vali 2++ uses 6N3P (or 5670/2C51/396A). These tubes have a different pinout, but they're otherwise quite comparable to the 6BZ7 family. If you already have a Vali 2+, there's no need to sidegrade, unless you have a bunch of 5670/2C51/6N3P tubes, or if you want to go full boat crazy and get a WE 396A, which costs more than Vali 2++. Vali 2++ stays at $149. Expect to see it in a week or two.



The original post is here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-6552#post-17110926


----------



## Ichos

XERO1 said:


> *Update!*
> 
> A new *Vali 2++* _(yes, that's what it's actually called)_ is coming _really_ soon!
> 
> ...


You can already use 5670 with the Vali 2+ by just adding an adapter.
But I guess that you will not be able to use 6922 and adapter with the Vali 2++ due to the higher current needs.
They could always continue producing the Vali 2+ with a cheap 6922 tube like the Sovtek.


----------



## Mr Trev

Yup. That is a bit of a head scratcher. There's gotta be a cheap 6dj8 that they could supply that'd be on the level of the 6bz7 - IME the 6bz7 ain't nothing special to begin with.
Barring that, why not just knock ~$5 off the MSRP and make the amp BYOT (bring your own tube)


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Yup. That is a bit of a head scratcher. There's gotta be a cheap 6dj8 that they could supply that'd be on the level of the 6bz7 - IME the 6bz7 ain't nothing special to begin with.
> Barring that, why not just knock ~$5 off the MSRP and make the amp BYOT (bring your own tube)


Agree.  I like 6BQ7’s much better than 6BZ7’s anyway.  But I have a stash of triple-mica Foton 6N3P’s, so maybe I can offload those to some future 2++ owners.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Agree.  I like 6BQ7’s much better than 6BZ7’s anyway.  But I have a stash of triple-mica Foton 6N3P’s, so maybe I can offload those to some future 2++ owners.


Dibs!!
Not that I'm planning on "upgrading", but dibs!


----------



## adydula

I was wondering if the new LISST SS "tubes" would work in the Vali 2 + with a 6SN7 adapter.
I sent a note to Schiit and the reply is NOPE!
Voltages too different even with the many adapters out there....

:<(


----------



## adydula (Aug 29, 2022)

I hate to say this but after going thru ALL the Magni series from Day 1 the Vali 2 ++ here beats the "pants" off the latest Magni 3 +.
Side by side, level matched etc the Vali 2+ has some magic....havent a clue as to why but my ears smile alot with the Vali 2 + in the mix.

The Magni 3 + is super clean and "sterile"....compared to the Hersey which I sold because IMO it was really sterile and clean...too much so for me.
Some recordings do sound very good with the Magni 3+ but the Vali 2 + just adds that "distortion" ??? that makes the experience so nice.

I am a simple man!
:>)


----------



## Pondoro

adydula said:


> I hate to say this but after going thru ALL the Magni series from Day 1 the Vali 2 ++ here beats the "pants" off the latest Magni 3 +.
> Side by side, level matched etc the Vali 2+ has some magic....havent a clue as to why but my ears smile alot with the Vali 2 + in the mix.
> 
> The Magni 3 + is super clean and "sterile"....compared to the Hersey which I sold because IMO it was really sterile and clean...too much so for me.
> ...


I am glad you did this. I went right to the Vali 2+. I am happy with it. I like some tubes better than others but I like it! Your post makes me happy that I didn't bother messing with any other versions.


----------



## RickB

adydula said:


> I hate to say this but after going thru ALL the Magni series from Day 1 the Vali 2 ++ here beats the "pants" off the latest Magni 3 +.
> Side by side, level matched etc the Vali 2+ has some magic....havent a clue as to why but my ears smile alot with the Vali 2 + in the mix.
> 
> The Magni 3 + is super clean and "sterile"....compared to the Hersey which I sold because IMO it was really sterile and clean...too much so for me.
> ...


If you can, try it with an EH 6CG7. With this tube, this is my favorite amp of all time.


----------



## Pondoro (Aug 30, 2022)

I’m very happy with the Vali 2+. Maybe they could still sell them without the tube on a “find your own tube” basis. They could call it Vali 2+-.


----------



## adydula (Aug 29, 2022)

RickB said:


> If you can, try it with an EH 6CG7. With this tube, this is my favorite amp of all time.


Rick,

It looks like this will work without an adapter....I will have to find one to try!
thanks!
Alex

Note Update: Found one and its coming!


----------



## bcowen

Pondoro said:


> I’m very happy with the Vali 2+. Maybe they could still sell them without the tube on a “find your own tube” basis. They could call it* ValI 2+-.*


ROFL!!!


----------



## XERO1

The Vali 2++ is now available!!   

https://www.schiit.com/products/vali-3

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-6580#post-17120761

_Aaaaaaaand_.... ordered!


----------



## adydula

Gosh, now I have to get one of these to test against the almost perfect for me Vali2 +...

Gosh this is awesome!

:>)


----------



## InvisibleInk

adydula said:


> Gosh, now I have to get one of these to test against the almost perfect for me Vali2 +...
> 
> Gosh this is awesome!
> 
> :>)



Then you're gonna have to start tube rolling all over again. Unless an adapter is available...


----------



## adydula

InvisibleInk said:


> Then you're gonna have to start tube rolling all over again. Unless an adapter is available...


Think I will stick with two different sets of tube families one for the vali 2 + and the other for the vali 2 + +.
I do have and use a 6SN7 adapter with the vali 2 + but so far the existing 6BZ7's are jst as good here for my ears.
I have a 6CG7 on its way to see how this works...

Maybe one of those $170 WE396A's for the new vali 2 ++ ????
OMG....


----------



## Mr Trev

InvisibleInk said:


> Then you're gonna have to start tube rolling all over again. Unless an adapter is available...


There are plenty of adapters to use 6N3 type tubes in the original Vali2. I bought one from eBay, G1217 makes them (most likely way better quality than the Chinese eBay variety). I'd have to imagine there are adapters to go the other way around too. From what I've read, save your money and just get adaptered if you want to use the different tubes


----------



## adydula

The Vali 2 + is now a collectors amp!

LOL!!

:>)


----------



## Pondoro (Aug 30, 2022)

adydula said:


> The Vali 2 + is now a collectors amp!
> 
> LOL!!
> 
> :>)


I actually considered buying a second, because I have so many tubes. But I have a Lyr 3 and a Saga +, a second Vali 2+ seemed like excess.


----------



## Ichos

adydula said:


> The Vali 2 + is now a collectors amp!
> 
> LOL!!
> 
> :>)


Yes and we can run both types of tubes while vice versa is not possible!!!


----------



## adydula

As soon as I get the new Vali 2 ++ I will do a review comparison between the two!!

:>)

Alex


----------



## jonathan c

Pondoro said:


> I actually considered buying a second, because I have so many tubes. But I have a Lyr 3 and a Saga +, a second Vali 2+ seemed like excess.


At $149? 🤔…….any ECG tube at $149 each would be excess 🤣.


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Think I will stick with two different sets of tube families one for the vali 2 + and the other for the vali 2 + +.
> I do have and use a 6SN7 adapter with the vali 2 + but so far the existing 6BZ7's are jst as good here for my ears.
> I have a 6CG7 on its way to see how this works...
> 
> ...


Sheeez.  Back when I was hoarding stashing 396A's, they were $40 a piece.


----------



## adydula

bcowen said:


> Sheeez.  Back when I was hoarding stashing 396A's, they were $40 a piece.


Yup its absolutely super ridiculous and "not gonna" do it!
If you ever want to get rid on a WE 396 please contact me!
With my 401K now a 201K I will have to ponder taking out a loan to pay for it!

:>)


----------



## adydula

6CG7 should be here today!
Stay tuned.

Also Vali 2 ++ is coming soon as well!


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Yup its absolutely super ridiculous and "not gonna" do it!
> If you ever want to get rid on a WE 396 please contact me!
> With my 401K now a 201K I will have to ponder taking out a loan to pay for it!
> 
> :>)


ROFL!   After factoring in current inflation, I think mine is now closer to a 150k.   🤣 

The 396A sounded very good in both the Lyr 3 and Incubus amps, but there are other tubes I prefer over it in both amps.  Both amps use a 6SN7 natively, so the 396A is not being run at its optimal parameters in those amps either.  For some reason, I don't remember trying the 396A in my (OG) Vali 2.  I suppose I should do that.


----------



## davidfrance (Sep 3, 2022)

In February 2021 I bought 2 tubes from thetubestore.com in Canada. After the shipping charges and the import charges and taxes I maybe spent 90 Euros or so on these tubes. They were for the Vali2+. This was « the original plan », later other « plans » arrived, and I ended up getting an Asgard 3, and then later a Lyr 3. I said to myself that I would eventually get a Vali2+ when it became available on the schiit-Europe site. There was no rush, but I had a real curiosity about the Vali2+, and I wanted to hear those tubes that I bought in February 2021.

I maybe hesitated for 8 or 9 hours, last week, when I saw in this forum that the Vali2+ was going to be replaced, and the new one would use different tubes. I could have just thrown the 2 tubes away, that would have been the cheapest solution. But I really wanted to hear them.

Happily I had the good sense to order a Vali2+ from the Schiit U.S. site, and FedEx brought it to me today, in France. I think that I got one of the last ones, maybe. This is my first « black finish » Schiit product. After a few hours I think that I can already hear that I like the Lyr 3 better, but the Vali2+ is no slouch, and probably the best deal of all. Even if I like the Lyr 3 better.

In any case, I am happy to see « the original plan » finally completed, and I will spend the next few weeks listening to my Vali2+, Bifrost 2, and Sennheiser HD660s. This is nice. Something good for the arrival of cooler weather.


----------



## HWB3 (Sep 2, 2022)

My birthday is at the end of the month. I wanted to get a Vali 2+ but there was a 3–5-week delay. So, my wife ordered last Saturday to be able to get it on time and it came today. However, it wasn't the Vali 2+ but the 2++! Thumbs up to Schiit for the fast shipping. I won't be able to try it until later this month but I'm looking forward to what all of you have to say about the new version.


----------



## XERO1

Just got it! Sounds (and looks) _*really*_ good so far with a GE 5670.  

I'll do some comparisons between it and a Vali 2+ and a Vali 2 later on.


----------



## adydula

Just got the EH 6CG7 and popped it in the Vali 2+.
Sweet, really Sweet!

:>)


----------



## Mr Trev

XERO1 said:


> Just got it! Sounds (and looks) _*really*_ good so far with a GE 5670.
> 
> I'll do some comparisons between it and a Vali 2+ and a Vali 2 later on.


Probably the best thing about those GE5670 is they glow real purty


----------



## adydula (Sep 3, 2022)

adydula said:


> Just got the EH 6CG7 and popped it in the Vali 2+.
> Sweet, really Sweet!
> 
> :>)


@bcowen Well you were VERY correct on the 6CG7.
Its indeed right up there close to a 10 in this amp...
OMG scary good...

Rhythm Devils, Naplam for Breakfast is really awesome!!
Both the ADX 5000 and the D8000 Pros are swinging sweetly here.
Satriani's Always With Me, Always With You....!!

I got this tube from a guy in SC close to home..for a decent price.

Thanks again....

Alex


----------



## jonathan c

Mr Trev said:


> Probably the best thing about those GE5670 is they glow real _purty._


…is that Canadese…?🤔


----------



## RickB

adydula said:


> @bcowen Well you were VERY correct on the 6CG7.
> Its indeed right up there close to a 10 in this amp...
> OMG scary good...
> 
> ...


Actually, that was me that recommended the EH 6CG7. Glad you like it!


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> @bcowen Well you were VERY correct on the 6CG7.
> Its indeed right up there close to a 10 in this amp...
> OMG scary good...
> 
> ...


Thanks for the props, but I don't think it was me that recommended the EH. I've not yet heard one of those, though I've tried a couple other 6CG7's that sound very good.   Glad it's sounding great for you though!


----------



## bcowen

RickB said:


> Actually, that was me that recommended the EH 6CG7. Glad you like it!


Ahh!  Whew.  My memory isn't dead after all.


----------



## adydula

RickB said:


> Actually, that was me that recommended the EH 6CG7. Glad you like it!


Well @RickB Guess my 73 yr old age is showing its face!!
OMG!

Sorry Rick! and @bcowen oooops!!

Ha!

Rick...thanks again its indeed a special amp with a really special tube...
Never would have belived this!!

Glad we are all friends!


----------



## Mr Trev

jonathan c said:


> …is that Canadese…?🤔


Albertish, technically


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Thanks for the props, but I don't think it was me that recommended the EH. I've not yet heard one of those, though I've tried a couple other 6CG7's that sound very good.   Glad it's sounding great for you though!


That left me scratching my head too. I shudder to think of what the state of the world has become if you're recommending EH tubes now.


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> That left me scratching my head too. I shudder to think of what the state of the world has become if you're recommending EH tubes now.


LOL!  Actually I'm not anti-EH globally.  There have been a couple types that I didn't much care for, but I really liked a set of 6CA7's (EL34) that sounded excellent in a Cary amp.  As I haven't heard the 6CG7 I can't comment on it, and I'll save my global bashing for my usual suspect.   🤣🤣


----------



## jonathan c

Mr Trev said:


> That left me scratching my head too. I shudder to think of what the state of the world has become if you're recommending EH tubes now.


…only a few letters away from….E C!G! ...😳


----------



## RickB

I should state that if you have an original Vali 2, the EH 6CG7 is not a good tube in that amp, it's pretty muddy sounding. But the Vali 2+ is brighter and something about the balance of that with this tube does some magic.


----------



## jonathan c

RickB said:


> I should state that if you have an original Vali 2, the EH 6CG7 is not a good tube in that amp, it's pretty muddy sounding. But the Vali 2+ is brighter and something about the balance of that with this tube does some magic.


If Vali 2+ is brighter than Vali 2, is RickB+ …?😜


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> …only a few letters away from….E C!G! ...😳


ECG stands for Equivalent to Cracked Gonads.  Which is more painful is, of course, a matter of personal preference.   🤣


----------



## RickB

jonathan c said:


> If Vali 2+ is brighter than Vali 2, is RickB+ …?😜


Your implication is not appreciated.


----------



## adydula (Sep 4, 2022)

Good Morning!

Well I dont usually look at EH tubes anymore until I saw @RickB 's :

"If you can, try it with an EH 6CG7. With this tube, this is my favorite amp of all time."

I was very surprised that it works as well as it does.

So after all my old age confusion of names and who did what here I sit pondering life and what to do next!

Hmm...well first its going to be a second cup of coffee, then off to the shower and breakfast.
(Need to shower first so the flies stay away!)..

:>)


----------



## adydula

Ok 'tis the morning after and ususally the newness or the "new thing" syndrome has worn off and that thing that
you got the other day is well "ho-hum"....
Well first song this am with this new tube was Syprogyra's Heart of the Night and its still making me smile...
Ah! Life is good!
:>)

IT really "sticks" out....


----------



## adydula

Wondering if the gain between a 6BZ7 and 6CG7 are very different for a plate voltage of 60 volts that Schitt states is the plate voltage.
Could this be part of the magic in the "illusion" we often perceive when swapping out tubes?

Have to take a look at the charts...

@Jason Stoddard 

Alex


----------



## JayDM

How is this as an intro to tubes?  Have never owned a tube amp before and I’m considering picking this one up as an option to dip my toe in, see if the sound is something that I should be looking for.  I’ll always lean towards solid state as my daily, however I wonder if a tube option is something I would get use out of or if it would wind up gathering dust.  At this price it’s worth it even if I never use it, but if it’s not really a solid example I’ll look elsewhere.


----------



## Ichos

This amplifier is probably the best hybrid in it's price point and way above.
It is a solid choice for entering the tube world but you should always remember that is a hybrid and the tube effect is limited when compared to full tube amplifiers.
Anyway this is a highly recommend amplifier one of the best Schiit gears ever.


----------



## adydula

JayDM said:


> How is this as an intro to tubes?  Have never owned a tube amp before and I’m considering picking this one up as an option to dip my toe in, see if the sound is something that I should be looking for.  I’ll always lean towards solid state as my daily, however I wonder if a tube option is something I would get use out of or if it would wind up gathering dust.  At this price it’s worth it even if I never use it, but if it’s not really a solid example I’ll look elsewhere.


Your never going to know until you try one or "it"..
Many folks state the hybrid Vali 2 series are more SS like vs a full blown tube design.
I am more of a very  good SS guy here...but have gone thru many tube amps over the years as well....many folks in this thread are likewise.
That said when I got my first Vali 2 It was more like a decent SS amp to me and trying many tubes it did change somewhat here but not like
any of the full on tube designs I had.
IMO I like real clarity but with good natural tone so things recorded well play back like real instruments, voices etc.

For me and many of us the Vali 2 + is really a steal of an amp...and does allow some manipulation of the sound...but it depends more so on the quality of the recordings you
have, the transducer etc..

If you want to really get into tube amps and chase differing sounds this may not be the amp for you.
Maybe a Bottlehead Crack etc...

But your going to pay MUCH more for those amps than $149.

Good Luck!
Alex


----------



## bcowen

Ichos said:


> This amplifier is probably the best hybrid in it's price point and way above.
> It is a solid choice for entering the tube world but you should always remember that is a hybrid and the tube effect is limited when compared to full tube amplifiers.
> Anyway this is a highly recommend amplifier one of the best Schiit gears ever.


+1 

Nicely stated and I couldn't agree more on all points.


----------



## adydula

Notice the 90 volts in the 6CG7 and gain of 20 then the 6BZ7 with a 150 volts plate and gain of 36....
Maybe Jason will chime in with some techie details....as it might relate to the Vali 2 +.
@Jason Stoddard


----------



## JayDM

adydula said:


> Your never going to know until you try one or "it"..
> Many folks state the hybrid Vali 2 series are more SS like vs a full blown tube design.
> I am more of a very  good SS guy here...but have gone thru many tube amps over the years as well....many folks in this thread are likewise.
> That said when I got my first Vali 2 It was more like a decent SS amp to me and trying many tubes it did change somewhat here but not like
> ...


Appreciate the replies.  Probably going to look for something that will give me a better idea of the “tube sound”, I’m sitting on 3 SS amps that I love at the moment and I can’t see much of a hole in my system for a solid state. 

I figure anything under $350-$400 is fine for an experiment as it’s an amount I’m more than comfortable losing if I wind up hating it.  My thought is to pick up an entry level tube and if I appreciate the sound I can look into something like a Kenzie, Euphoria, or Elise.  Want to be fairly certain I’ll get use out of tubes as more than anything it will take up a bunch of real estate on the desk.


----------



## adydula

JayDM said:


> Appreciate the replies.  Probably going to look for something that will give me a better idea of the “tube sound”, I’m sitting on 3 SS amps that I love at the moment and I can’t see much of a hole in my system for a solid state.
> 
> I figure anything under $350-$400 is fine for an experiment as it’s an amount I’m more than comfortable losing if I wind up hating it.  My thought is to pick up an entry level tube and if I appreciate the sound I can look into something like a Kenzie, Euphoria, or Elise.  Want to be fairly certain I’ll get use out of tubes as more than anything it will take up a bunch of real estate on the desk.


You mean like this:
This is before the Vali's...
Always room for more amps!
:>)


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Wondering if the gain between a 6BZ7 and 6CG7 are very different for a plate voltage of 60 volts that Schitt states is the plate voltage.
> Could this be part of the magic in the "illusion" we often perceive when swapping out tubes?
> 
> Have to take a look at the charts...
> ...


The 6BZ7 has an amplification factor of 36 (like a 6922) while the 6CG7 is 20 (like a 6SN7).  I'm using a Brimar CV4033 in my Vali 2 (OG) right now...it's similar to a 12AT7 with an amplification factor of 60.  That tube wouldn't work in either of my OTL amps (6SN7 native) without distorting, but it works just fine in the Vali 2 and in fact has become my favorite tube in that amp.  Yeah, a $100 tube in a $150 amp may be silly, but being sensible has never been one of my faults.   🤣 

Are you sure about that 60 volts on the plates?  I don't know what it is but 60 seems very low for either tube.  I'd expect more like 90 volts or even higher.


----------



## JayDM

adydula said:


> You mean like this:
> This is before the Vali's...
> Always room for more amps!
> :>)


Exactly… spent all of yesterday taking down a TV that hung over my desk so I could pile my racks higher.

TV was more of a wall ornament anyway, can’t remember the last time I turned the thing on but man have TV’s come a long way in 9ish years, 55 inches and must have weighed as much as I do, 72 inch I picked up a month ago was reasonably light for its size, simple to hang and setup, but the older one took me the better part of the day to get rid of.


----------



## adydula

bcowen said:


> The 6BZ7 has an amplification factor of 36 (like a 6922) while the 6CG7 is 20 (like a 6SN7).  I'm using a Brimar CV4033 in my Vali 2 (OG) right now...it's similar to a 12AT7 with an amplification factor of 60.  That tube wouldn't work in either of my OTL amps (6SN7 native) without distorting, but it works just fine in the Vali 2 and in fact has become my favorite tube in that amp.  Yeah, a $100 tube in a $150 amp may be silly, but being sensible has never been one of my faults.   🤣
> 
> Are you sure about that 60 volts on the plates?  I don't know what it is but 60 seems very low for either tube.  I'd expect more like 90 volts or even higher.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> The 6BZ7 has an amplification factor of 36 (like a 6922) while the 6CG7 is 20 (like a 6SN7).  I'm using a Brimar CV4033 in my Vali 2 (OG) right now...it's similar to a 12AT7 with an amplification factor of 60.  That tube wouldn't work in either of my OTL amps (6SN7 native) without distorting, but it works just fine in the Vali 2 and in fact has become my favorite tube in that amp.  Yeah, a $100 tube in a $150 amp may be silly, but being sensible has never been one of my faults.   🤣


Now all that you need for $149 Vali is a $200 fuse 😜.


----------



## adydula

Jason has stated a few times that some of the tubes in his stuff are running at low plate voltages and ties this into tubes lasting longer than published or projected hours of useage...

Having some "knowledge" being and old fart (forgot most of what I know from way back in school drawing load lines and testing for class projects)....You can bias a tube and
the gain I think is affected on the grid voltage etc...so a tube might have a gain spec'd in the manual but only if other criteria are met...

In the specs under HIGH gain it shows a gain of "5".
Assume LOW gain is "1" ????

Hope Mr Stoddard will enlighten us...no Schiit design stuff just some idea of all this techie stuff is neat at times.

Seriously I wish we had schematics to look at, but I totally get it...folks across the world would love to copy etc..

:>)
@Jason Stoddard


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


>


OK, that's pretty much "sure."      Wonder if the Vali 2 (OG) is the same.  I might have to pull out the DVM and see.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Now all that you need for $149 Vali is a $200 fuse 😜.


And a $500 power cord, of course.  🤣


----------



## adydula

jonathan c said:


> Now all that you need for $149 Vali is a $200 fuse 😜.


Ouch !!
Oh My!


JayDM said:


> Exactly… spent all of yesterday taking down a TV that hung over my desk so I could pile my racks higher.
> 
> TV was more of a wall ornament anyway, can’t remember the last time I turned the thing on but man have TV’s come a long way in 9ish years, 55 inches and must have weighed as much as I do, 72 inch I picked up a month ago was reasonably light for its size, simple to hang and setup, but the older one took me the better part of the day to get rid of.


I had and my son still has it a Panasonic Plasma that weighs 180 lbs!!


----------



## adydula (Sep 4, 2022)

bcowen said:


> OK, that's pretty much "sure."      Wonder if the Vali 2 (OG) is the same.  I might have to pull out the DVM and see.


Be careful! Sparking and arc'in!

lol

Sitting here while responding to you guys listening to this tube and amp combo and still just smiling...with all this other stuff lying around!
So many amps and other stuff have come and gone...

Honestly I could sell it all and be very happy with this $149 gem.
(but that wouldnt be prudent would it?)...

Gosh I cant believe I am saying this!!
OMG...please dont tell my wife this!!

:>)


----------



## Pondoro (Sep 4, 2022)

JayDM said:


> Exactly… spent all of yesterday taking down a TV that hung over my desk so I could pile my racks higher.
> 
> TV was more of a wall ornament anyway, can’t remember the last time I turned the thing on but man have TV’s come a long way in 9ish years, 55 inches and must have weighed as much as I do, 72 inch I picked up a month ago was reasonably light for its size, simple to hang and setup, but the older one took me the better part of the day to get rid of.


We have to _have _a TV, but I only watch NASCAR and a few other racing shows. I watched the super bowl last year because the local team was in it. Since Covid I also have watched some online concerts, a huge TV is nice for that, if the sound is played through a decent system. But I’m amazed at the cost of TVs plummeting over the years. My 75” TV cost much less and has higher quality than the 55” TV that it replaced. The 75” TV cost about $475. In 1979 or 80 I bought my first color TV, a19” model. I remember the price, $430. I had traumatic sticker shock over that $430.

If you wonder whether you need a subwoofer, auto racing is improved tremendously by a sub, sometimes. Other times it is not. I think the broadcasters sometimes hipass the audio.


----------



## InvisibleInk

JayDM said:


> Appreciate the replies.  Probably going to look for something that will give me a better idea of the “tube sound”, I’m sitting on 3 SS amps that I love at the moment and I can’t see much of a hole in my system for a solid state.
> 
> I figure anything under $350-$400 is fine for an experiment as it’s an amount I’m more than comfortable losing if I wind up hating it.  My thought is to pick up an entry level tube and if I appreciate the sound I can look into something like a Kenzie, Euphoria, or Elise.  Want to be fairly certain I’ll get use out of tubes as more than anything it will take up a bunch of real estate on the desk.



The Vali will set you back $149.00 initially. Then, the tube rolling will begin, and you will quickly fill in the remainder of your budget with experimenting with recommended tubes.


----------



## Mr Trev

InvisibleInk said:


> The Vali will set you back $149.00 initially. Then, the tube rolling will begin, and you will quickly fill in the remainder of your budget with experimenting with recommended tubes.


Sad, but true. Pretty easy to end up investing more $$ in tubes than the amp itself. 
I can still proudly say that I haven't spent more on a single tube than I did for the amp tho…


----------



## Pondoro

InvisibleInk said:


> The Vali will set you back $149.00 initially. Then, the tube rolling will begin, and you will quickly fill in the remainder of your budget with experimenting with recommended tubes.


On the 2+ I heard a subtle difference between the original tube and a new ElectroHarmonix 6922. The higher bass notes became clearer. Then with an adapter I tried 6SN7’s of various vintages. With the 6SN7 tubes the music sounded more solid. I don’t even know what ‘solid’ means but that is how it sounds. I think you’d have fun with a Vali.


----------



## XERO1 (Sep 16, 2022)

*Vali 2++, Vali 2+, Vali 2 - Quick Comparison*

- Preliminary findings (after only a few hours of listening) -

The Vali 2++ is a *stunningly* good sounding amp! And not just 'for the money', it's a stunningly good sounding amp *period.* I mainly listened to the amps in Low gain mode (because with the headphones I was using, High gain mode sounded a bit too bright for me). Whether using the included 6N3P or a GE 5670 (they pretty much sounded identical to me), there was a level of refinement in the mids and treble compared to the Vali 2 and Vali 2+ that was easily discernible to me with high quality recordings. I used Genalex GL E88CC tubes on both the Vali 2 and Vali 2+ for this comparison, which I find to be the best sounding current production tube that can be used with them. But once their levels were matched, the Vali 2++ always made me want to keep listening to the music, while the V2 and V2+ had a slight glare in their upper-mids and treble that would slowly become a bit fatiguing after listening for more than 30 minutes or so. The V2++ would walk right up to that line, but never cross it. And I have no idea why this is. Supposedly the V2++ uses essentially the exact same circuit design as the V2+, so maybe the improvement comes from the different tube type being used or perhaps from some other small change in the V2++'s circuit (or both). I have no idea. But I do know one thing for sure, the Vali 2++ is an amazingly good amp and should be considered by anyone who is 'tube curious' and wants to get a *huge* chunk of tube goodness without draining their bank account. I like to think of the Vali 2++ as the Prince of hybrid tube amps. While it may be small in stature, it more than makes up for its small size (and price tag) with an _incredible_ amount of raw talent!  Highly Recommended!!


----------



## Ichos

XERO1 said:


> - Preliminary findings (after only a few hours of listening) -
> 
> The Vali 2++ is a *stunningly* good sounding amp! And not just 'for the money', it's a stunningly good sounding amp *period.* I listened to them all only in Low gain mode (High gain mode just sounded too bright for me). Whether using the included 6N3P or a GE 5670 (they pretty much sounded identical to me), there was a level of refinement in the mids and treble compared to the Vali 2 and Vali 2+ that was easily discernible to me with high quality recordings. I used Genalex GL E88CC tubes on both the Vali 2 and Vali 2+ for this comparison, which I find to be the best sounding current production tube that can be used with them. But once their levels were matched, the Vali 2++ always made me want to keep listening to the music, while the V2 and V2+ had a slight glare in their upper-mids and treble that would slowly become a bit fatiguing after listening for more than 30 minutes or so. The V2++ would walk right up to that line, but never cross it. And I have no idea why this is. Supposedly the V2++ uses essentially the exact same circuit design as the V2+, so maybe it's the different tube type or some other small change in the V2++'s circuit. I have no idea. But I do know one thing for sure, the Vali 2++ is an amazingly good amp and should be considered by anyone who is 'tube curious' and wants to get a *huge* chunk of tube goodness without draining their bank account. I like to think of the Vali 2++ and the Prince of hybrid tube amps. While it may be small in stature, it more than makes up for its small size (and price tag) with an _incredible_ amount of raw talent!  Highly Recommended!!


Great writing.
Thank you very much for your impressions.
Now in order to be %100 fair you must try the ++ tubes to the + with an adapter.


----------



## XERO1 (Sep 4, 2022)

Ichos said:


> Great writing.
> Thank you very much for your impressions.
> Now in order to be %100 fair you must try the ++ tubes to the + with an adapter.


Nah. Adapters just aren’t my thing. The main reason I bought the Vali 2++ was because I wanted a Vali amp that could use a _lower_ profile tube, not a higher profile one. 

I’ll leave it to others to see if they end up agreeing (or disagreeing) with my findings.


----------



## Ichos (Sep 4, 2022)

XERO1 said:


> Nah. Adapters just aren’t my thing. The main reason I bought the Vali 2++ was because I wanted a Vali amp that could use a lower profile tube, not a higher profile one.
> 
> I’ll leave it to others to see if they end up agreeing (or disagreeing) with my findings.


Just saying because I have tried all the tubes you mentioned to 6922 amplifiers and they do have their own charming sound signature.
So I guess that the differences you mentioned between the two Vali iterations are tube related and not because of the different amp.

BTW, Genalex GL E88CC tube has a strong solid state character, you can even call it bright, especially if it has less than 200 hours of use.
The opposite should be said of the miniature Russian 6N3P which is quite "tubey" sounding.


----------



## XERO1 (Sep 4, 2022)

Ichos said:


> Just saying because I have tried all the tubes you mentioned to 6922 amplifiers and they do have their own charming sound signature.
> So I guess that the differences you mentioned between the two Vali iterations are tube related and not because of the different amp.
> 
> BTW, Genalex GL E88CC tube has a strong solid state character, you can even call it bright, especially if it has less than 200 hours of use.
> The opposite should be said of the miniature Russian 6N3P which is quite "tubey" sounding.



I've also tried quite a few new production and NOS tubes with the Vali 2 and Vali 2+, and the improvements I heard with the Vali 2++ seemed to go beyond any improvement or difference I've heard when just switching tubes. Just my 2 cents, and YMMV.


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Sad, but true. Pretty easy to end up investing more $$ in tubes than the amp itself.
> I can still proudly say that I haven't spent more on a single tube than I did for the amp *Yet. *


FTFY.   🤣


----------



## davidfrance (Sep 6, 2022)

Does anybody know if the power supply (wall wart) between the Vali2+ and the Vali2++ is identical ? At least in terms of functionality and replacement ? If I moved back to the U.S., could I just bring my Vali2+ with me and order a Vali2++ U.S. power supply to run the Vali2+ ?


----------



## adydula

davidfrance said:


> Does anybody know if the power supply (wall wart) between the Vali2+ and the Vali2++ is identical ? At least in terms of functionality and replacement ? If I moved back to the U.S., could I just bring my Vali2+ with me and order a Vali2++ U.S. power supply to run the Vali2+ ?


As far as I can tell they look identical....one of the guys that have them already can chime in. I hope to have one soon and I will take some pix.


----------



## XERO1

davidfrance said:


> Does anybody know if the power supply (wall wart) between the Vali2+ and the Vali2++ is identical ? At least in terms of functionality and replacement ? If I moved back to the U.S., could I just bring my Vali2+ with me and order a Vali2++ U.S. power supply to run the Vali2+ ?





Jason Stoddard said:


> 2022, Chapter 11
> *Stupidest.Name.Ever.
> 
> Are there any differences besides the tube?*
> No. It’s the same power supply, the same output stage, the same chassis, the same price, everything. Except the couple of pin changes for the different tube, and the fact that it uses a black board, it’s the same thing.



I can confirm that the Vali 2, Vali 2+ and the Vali 2++ all use the exact same power supply.


----------



## adydula

Should have a Vali 2 ++ here by this Saturday..


----------



## toni2068

This cutie just arrived. This is my 2nd amp ever, Vali 2++, and I'm plugged in a DT 990 (600 ohm), this is fed from my cayin ru-6 dongle which is granted music from my PC.

I don't have enough experience to say anything useful here, except that I'm a happy camper.


----------



## Pondoro

There is a Vali 2 going for $289 on the 'Bay. No takers yet. Apparently they are now a collector's item.


----------



## bcowen

Pondoro said:


> There is a Vali 2 going for $289 on the 'Bay. No takers yet. Apparently they are now a collector's item.


On the plus side, the nearly 2X price is from a seller with a lot of negative feedback.   🤣 🤣


----------



## Pondoro

bcowen said:


> On the plus side, the nearly 2X price is from a seller with a lot of negative feedback.   🤣 🤣


I saw the price and didn’t even bother to check out the seller.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Pondoro said:


> I saw the price and didn’t even bother to check out the seller.


Yeesh. I’m glad my little toaster (Vali2) is still chugging along. My Fulla 2, however, died. Long story…


----------



## adydula

Its here!


----------



## adydula

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-vali-2.26042/reviews#review-29216


----------



## elee703

a week in and very enjoyable!


----------



## adydula

elee703 said:


> a week in and very enjoyable!


Gosh this is a sweet pix. I love Schiit stuff, but way back in the early days I was in love with the Burson HA160, but could never afford it back then. Love the simplicity of it.
Neat to see the Vali 2 on top !

Enjoy the music!
Alex


----------



## adydula (Sep 16, 2022)

Someone asked if the Vali 2 + + power supply was the same as the previous Vali 2 + :

@davidfrance


----------



## adydula

davidfrance said:


> Does anybody know if the power supply (wall wart) between the Vali2+ and the Vali2++ is identical ? At least in terms of functionality and replacement ? If I moved back to the U.S., could I just bring my Vali2+ with me and order a Vali2++ U.S. power supply to run the Vali2+ ?


The same.


----------



## inmytaxi

adydula said:


> The same.


What about Vali 2? I interchange all 3.


----------



## elee703

Has anyone had issues with tube rolling (specifically the EH 6922 and Gold Lion 6922) not working when the stock tube does?


----------



## adydula

inmytaxi said:


> What about Vali 2? I interchange all 3.


Cant speak to the Vali 2.
Sorry maybe someone that has one can take a pix.
Alex


----------



## Ichos

elee703 said:


> Has anyone had issues with tube rolling (specifically the EH 6922 and Gold Lion 6922) not working when the stock tube does?


With Vali 2+ or ++?


----------



## Pondoro

elee703 said:


> Has anyone had issues with tube rolling (specifically the EH 6922 and Gold Lion 6922) not working when the stock tube does?


I rolled in an EH 6922, (Vali 2+) it worked great and sounded slightly better. The high bass tones were clearer and just sounded better. Then I got an adapter and started using vintage 6SN7’s. All sound better than the EH6922. The improvement is difficult to describe, “more solid”, comes to mind but I don’t even know what that means.


----------



## inmytaxi (Sep 16, 2022)

elee703 said:


> Has anyone had issues with tube rolling (specifically the EH 6922 and Gold Lion 6922) not working when the stock tube does?


Check the manual, it's at the site. Make sure you're using the proper tubes.

In the 2++, the we 396a is slightly more clear than the various others, it's a very small difference and I only spent $30 on the tube it's not NOS (well, one is, but that one is missing almost all the chrome, just a few spots left).

But the difference is sooo slight.  This amplifier is fun with any tube, rolling in various samples is very inexpensive, under ten bucks per tube for excellent samples on ebay.


----------



## adydula

inmytaxi said:


> Check the manual, it's at the site. Make sure you're using the proper tubes.
> 
> In the 2++, the we 396a is slightly more clear than the various others, it's a very small difference and I only spent $30 on the tube it's not NOS (well, one is, but that one is missing almost all the chrome, just a few spots left).
> 
> But the difference is sooo slight.  This amplifier is fun with any tube, rolling in various samples is very inexpensive, under ten bucks per tube for excellent samples on ebay.


So slight...absolutley thanks for being honest!!
Its fun to play, but honestly there are so many good options out there.
Shades of grey,
Except for the transducer here.


----------



## elee703

inmytaxi said:


> Check the manual, it's at the site. Make sure you're using the proper tubes.
> 
> In the 2++, the we 396a is slightly more clear than the various others, it's a very small difference and I only spent $30 on the tube it's not NOS (well, one is, but that one is missing almost all the chrome, just a few spots left).
> 
> But the difference is sooo slight.  This amplifier is fun with any tube, rolling in various samples is very inexpensive, under ten bucks per tube for excellent samples on ebay.



i'm the dumbest person on earth


----------



## elee703

So ended up getting a Vali 2+ after initially getting a Vali 2++ so just decided to do a comparison (which really in essence is just a comparison between 6922 vs 5670) and tl:dr.....

if you can find a 2+ vs a 2++ (which is only what they sell on the Schiit website) do it. The 6922 tubes, in general, are more plentiful, have greater variety, and good ones don't cost an arm and a leg. Right now I have a EH 6922 and Gold Lion 6922/EC88 and I greatly prefer BOTH of them over the stock 6N3P that came with the Vali 2++. That being said, there are some HIGHLY rated and talked about 5670 tubes out there but kinda doesn't make sense to me to get a tube that's more expensive than the amp for an amp I just sort of play around with (and to "tube" my planars)


----------



## adydula

elee703 said:


> So ended up getting a Vali 2+ after initially getting a Vali 2++ so just decided to do a comparison (which really in essence is just a comparison between 6922 vs 5670) and tl:dr.....
> 
> if you can find a 2+ vs a 2++ (which is only what they sell on the Schiit website) do it. The 6922 tubes, in general, are more plentiful, have greater variety, and good ones don't cost an arm and a leg. Right now I have a EH 6922 and Gold Lion 6922/EC88 and I greatly prefer BOTH of them over the stock 6N3P that came with the Vali 2++. That being said, there are some HIGHLY rated and talked about 5670 tubes out there but kinda doesn't make sense to me to get a tube that's more expensive than the amp for an amp I just sort of play around with (and to "tube" my planars)


Enjoy what you have. The other high dollar tubes will not give you any more real discernable differences IMO.
Different maybe.
How different, not that much IMO.

Congrats!


----------



## adydula

Doc over at Bottlehead when commenting on tube rolling....often states "Its the circuit stupid!"...
Now he doenst poo poo chasing NOS goodness...
Gosh many folks buy and build his stuff to play, modify and enjoy this part of the hobby.

Its just that more often than naught the circuit the tube is in can make much more of a difference than
the actual tube itself.


----------



## elee703

adydula said:


> Doc over at Bottlehead when commenting on tube rolling....often states "Its the circuit stupid!"...
> Now he doenst poo poo chasing NOS goodness...
> Gosh many folks buy and build his stuff to play, modify and enjoy this part of the hobby.
> 
> ...



makes sense....hence why I don't chase the NOS craziness. Im pretty lazy, heck, i bought an entirely ANOTHER vali 2 bc I was too lazy to dive into a DIFFERENT tube size lol


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Doc over at Bottlehead when commenting on tube rolling....often states "Its the circuit stupid!"...
> Now he doenst poo poo chasing NOS goodness...
> Gosh many folks buy and build his stuff to play, modify and enjoy this part of the hobby.
> 
> ...


No argument with that, but a better tube in a better circuit just sounds....better.


----------



## adydula

This am I am listening to the Vali 2 +_...excellent with a NOS Orchid TDA 1541A dac from the early 90s tech...comparing to the Schiit Magni 3 + which is anotjher gret amp from Schiit!


----------



## InvisibleInk

adydula said:


> This am I am listening to the Vali 2 +_...excellent with a NOS Orchid TDA 1541A dac from the early 90s tech...comparing to the Schiit Magni 3 + which is anotjher gret amp from Schiit!


Economy cars parked next to a Mercedes and a Porsche...


----------



## adydula

InvisibleInk said:


> Economy cars parked next to a Mercedes and a Porsc





InvisibleInk said:


> Economy cars parked next to a Mercedes and a Porsche...


Yeah but those economy cars get better gas mileage!!

:>)


----------



## jonathan c

adydula said:


> Yeah but those economy cars get better gas mileage!!
> 
> :>)


They all get the same mileage before ignition 🤪


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> No argument with that, but a better tube in a better circuit just sounds....better.


“How much better could a better tube sound if a better tube could sound better?”…🤪


----------



## adydula

Ha! 
True!


----------



## adydula

Hard to see in this lighting but I just installed a Mapletree Audio 3 x 3 switchbox to replace my el cheopo chi-fi switchbox. The Orchid is in the darker center below the switchbox all being black its hard to see here, overcast gloomy day. Easy to switch the three dacs to any amp...the hard part is changing the music player to a particular dac..
Ohm theres a Schiit sys on the bottom of the two economy cars to swap between.

Fun!


----------



## jonathan c

adydula said:


> Hard to see in this lighting but I just installed a Mapletree Audio 3 x 3 switchbox to replace my el cheopo chi-fi switchbox. The Orchid is in the darker center below the switchbox all being black its hard to see here, overcast gloomy day. Easy to switch the three dacs to any amp...the hard part is changing the music player to a particular dac..
> Ohm theres a Schiit sys on the bottom of the two economy cars to swap between.
> 
> Fun!


What tube do you use in Orchid?…just curious.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> “How much better could a better tube sound if a better tube could sound better?”…🤪


Define 'better'.   🤣


----------



## adydula (Sep 25, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> What tube do you use in Orchid?…just curious.


The Orchid came with a Raytheon tube.
For $100 more you can get a Leif Ericcsson 5670 CVA 4013.
I use both...honestly they both work very well, the difference is in that really trying to discern a difference area...

 A better pix with my Magni 3 + which I love as well:


----------



## adydula

I am tempted to buy the Vali 2 ++, just to make the stack "higher" 
LOL!

...and then there are those "other" tubes....nothing like the war, glow!
The 2++ has a better glow!!

:>)


----------



## Pondoro

adydula said:


> Doc over at Bottlehead when commenting on tube rolling....often states "Its the circuit stupid!"...
> Now he doenst poo poo chasing NOS goodness...
> Gosh many folks buy and build his stuff to play, modify and enjoy this part of the hobby.
> 
> ...


I agree 100%. And I bought a Vali 2+, a Lyr 3 and a Saga +. I only have two systems so buying three preamps implies I am "rolling circuits"! _*But.*_.. Once you buy any circuit rolling the tube might still improve it. So even if the circuit is the _*biggest*_ deal the tube might also be a factor.


----------



## JIMMY16

Need ooyiest gooiyest (dark/lush) tube for Vali 2+. I have been considering Eh6922. Budget is $100.


----------



## elee703

JIMMY16 said:


> Need ooyiest gooiyest (dark/lush) tube for Vali 2+. I have been considering Eh6922. Budget is $100.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/692...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/


----------



## bcowen

JIMMY16 said:


> Need ooyiest gooiyest (dark/lush) tube for Vali 2+. I have been considering Eh6922. Budget is $100.


Dark and lush is not how I'd describe the EH at all.  Not sure about the dark side, but if you want lush try a '60's Holland-made Amperex 6DJ8. Or a Mullard E88CC /  CV2492.


----------



## adydula

Pondoro said:


> I agree 100%. And I bought a Vali 2+, a Lyr 3 and a Saga +. I only have two systems so buying three preamps implies I am "rolling circuits"! _*But.*_.. Once you buy any circuit rolling the tube might still improve it. So even if the circuit is the _*biggest*_ deal the tube might also be a factor.


Is that why I just spent $30 on a tube to try in my dac ?? 

😀😀😀


----------



## Pondoro

adydula said:


> Is that why I just spent $30 on a tube to try in my dac ??
> 
> 😀😀😀


Still, you could roll _DACs!_


----------



## adydula

Ha been there and still doing that 🤣


----------



## JIMMY16

bcowen said:


> Dark and lush is not how I'd describe the EH at all.  Not sure about the dark side, but if you want lush try a '60's Holland-made Amperex 6DJ8. Or a Mullard E88CC /  CV2492.


Thanks for info.


----------



## HWB3 (Sep 27, 2022)

I got a Vali 2++ recently. I've put about three hours into it with my 6XX's. I'm hearing something different that sounds good and I'm trying to figure out what it is. I'll check back.


----------



## HWB3 (Sep 27, 2022)

I f'ed that up pretty good. Lol. Late night, maybe some alcohol was involved. I just corrected it.


----------



## adydula

HWB3 said:


> I f'ed that up pretty good. Lol.


U can easily delete one of those pictures..
😀


----------



## HWB3

Classic rocks sounds damn fine on it. I had some Stones on earlier and now Grand Funk. I have a new play toy.


----------



## jonathan c

HWB3 said:


> I f'ed that up pretty good. Lol. Late night, maybe some alcohol was involved. I just corrected it.


…if you _feel_ ‘maybe’, then it was ‘definitely’ 🤪😜!


----------



## HWB3

It did happen. Much to my chagrin. I should know better. Lol


----------



## bcowen

HWB3 said:


> It did happen. Much to my chagrin. I should know better. Lol


No need to have regrets about having fun.   🤣


----------



## elee703

After bouncing around with a EH6922, Gold Lion 6922, and Amperex holland 6DJ8 for a few weeks......I think Im gonna stick with the Amperex Holland. I've got a pair of EH6922 on my Espressivo for a more straight, tight sound off a tube.....the amperex gives a nice tubey-ness while not sacrificing top end detail. Much pleased


----------



## Mr Trev

elee703 said:


> After bouncing around with a EH6922, Gold Lion 6922, and Amperex holland 6DJ8 for a few weeks......I think Im gonna stick with the Amperex Holland. I've got a pair of EH6922 on my Espressivo for a more straight, tight sound off a tube.....the amperex gives a nice tubey-ness while not sacrificing top end detail. Much pleased


Amperex orange globe was my first taste of NOSness. Good times


----------



## adydula

Just got a Tungsol 2c51. New nos. Will test tomorrow.

😀😀😀


----------



## Ichos

Still think that the 6cg7 is very good with the Vali 2+.
Very holographic sound and natural timbre.


----------



## Mr Trev

Ichos said:


> Still think that the 6cg7 is very good with the Vali 2+.
> Very holographic sound and natural timbre.


I totally agree. From my listening time, I think they are the best family of tubes to use - at least without needing to use an adapter.


----------



## adydula

I dont think I have ever met a Mr. Tube I have liked....


----------



## adydula

Ok I am a sucker for a "good" deal:
16 6CG7's, used, tested in normal range...

Price: $19.95.

Had to do it!

:>)


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Ok I am a sucker for a "good" deal:
> 16 6CG7's, used, tested in normal range...
> 
> Price: $19.95.
> ...


Can't see all of them very well, but I see a clear top (side getter) RCA in there which is quite nice.  And the Westinghouse...if it has staggered plates and a top D getter, it sounds very much like the 6SN7 with that configuration that is well liked by many (myself included).


----------



## adydula

We will put them all on a tube tester here and compare to the new EH 6CG7...stay tuned.
If I get one exceptional tube out of 16 I will be pleased!

:>)


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> We will put them all on a tube tester here and compare to the new EH 6CG7...stay tuned.
> If I get one exceptional tube out of 16 I will be pleased!
> 
> :>)


At $19.95, even one good one is still a pretty sweet deal!


----------



## adydula (Oct 1, 2022)

Testing some tubes, my tester 9 pin socket is getting wonky so I have to replace it!

Ever wonder what a 70 yr old tube tester looks like inside....brittle wires, no ground for safety!
Relaced old frayed power cord and removed the old tired socket...new ones on the way..
Need to get this solid to test those 16 incoming tubes!
LOL!







This is what us old guys call "rats nest wiring!" You can appreciate Schiits stuff...they have eliminated most all wiring...






When you actually see the internals of a tube amp from the good ole days and even some recent tube amps this is what you might see!

So ask yourself do you think that this type of wiring has any affect on the sonic characteristics or distortion or IMD etc..

Hmmm...


----------



## Ichos

adydula said:


> Testing some tubes, my tester 9 pin socket is getting wonky so I have to replace it!
> 
> Ever wonder what a 70 yr old tube tester looks like inside....brittle wires, no ground for safety!
> Relaced old frayed power cord and removed the old tired socket...new ones on the way..
> ...


It looks like a self designed explosive device 🧨


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Testing some tubes, my tester 9 pin socket is getting wonky so I have to replace it!
> 
> Ever wonder what a 70 yr old tube tester looks like inside....brittle wires, no ground for safety!
> Relaced old frayed power cord and removed the old tired socket...new ones on the way..
> ...


Replace that big electrolytic cap while you're in there (and any other electrolytics).  Working life for a _modern_ electrolytic is about 30 years (give or take depending on temperature), and at 70 years old the electrolytics are likely to be way off spec if they're still working at all.  Interestingly, I've never had any issue with the mylar and ceramic caps, only the electrolytics. 

And talk about rat's nests....sometimes it's difficult to even see where parts have fallen off and shorting things out.   🤣  This from a B&K 707 tester:


----------



## adydula (Oct 1, 2022)

It's not an electrolytic..imo.

No polarity  markings on it.

This is an old Knight 600.


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> It's not an electrolytic..imo.
> 
> No polarity  markings on it.
> 
> This is an old Knight 600.


Hmmm.  May be a film type capacitor as big as it is for the amount of capacitance.  The black line to the left of the text indicates the negative end, so although it might not be an electrolytic, it _is_ polarized.


----------



## adydula (Oct 1, 2022)

bcowen said:


> Hmmm.  May be a film type capacitor as big as it is for the amount of capacitance.  The black line to the left of the text indicates the negative end, so although it might not be an electrolytic, it _is_ polarized.


Yeah, if its a DC cap, it should be polarized one would think, never thought that line was negative, crap after working on this stuff for so many years I totally overlooked that!!
Duh!

Will measure the volts on it....
Will also take a look at mouser for a replacement ...cant hurt.

From what I have found these are most likely Ajax PMTC Ceramic. So it might still be ok...?? 

Alex


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Yeah, if its a DC cap, it should be polarized one would think, never thought that line was negative, crap after working on this stuff for so many years I totally overlooked that!!
> Duh!
> 
> Will measure the volts on it....
> ...


If it's ceramic it's probably OK.  Hard to know for sure if you don't have a capacitance or ESR meter.  The shipping would probably cost more than the cap itself if you replaced it with a film cap.


----------



## HWB3

I've had my Vali 2++ for about a week now and I really enjoy it. Now I'm starting to think about using it as a preamp for my Emotiva BassX A-100. I've read where it would add some tube flavor to the sound. Is this a good idea? 
  I understand that the Emotiva would control the output volume but at what level would I set the Vali 2++? Thanks.


----------



## elee703

HWB3 said:


> I've had my Vali 2++ for about a week now and I really enjoy it. Now I'm starting to think about using it as a preamp for my Emotiva BassX A-100. I've read where it would add some tube flavor to the sound. Is this a good idea?
> I understand that the Emotiva would control the output volume but at what level would I set the Vali 2++? Thanks.



So Im currently using mine as a preamp to my burson soloist SL Mk1 (2W per channel). So when I JUST listen to the burson preamped with the Vali I max out the Vali. The only time I lower the Vali as the preamp is when I want to A-B between the Burson without the preamp and with the preamp and I sloppily volume match the 2 inputs. What i'd say is that it does give a _little_ tube flavor but it's nothing to write home about. it's very subtle.


----------



## adydula

bcowen said:


> If it's ceramic it's probably OK.  Hard to know for sure if you don't have a capacitance or ESR meter.  The shipping would probably cost more than the cap itself if you replaced it with a film cap.


Measured it as 192 nf...or .192 mfd...


----------



## HWB3

elee703 said:


> So Im currently using mine as a preamp to my burson soloist SL Mk1 (2W per channel). So when I JUST listen to the burson preamped with the Vali I max out the Vali. The only time I lower the Vali as the preamp is when I want to A-B between the Burson without the preamp and with the preamp and I sloppily volume match the 2 inputs. What i'd say is that it does give a _little_ tube flavor but it's nothing to write home about. it's very subtle.


That's disappointing to hear. I thought that I might be onto something. I'm sure that I'll find another rabbit hole to go down.


----------



## InvisibleInk

elee703 said:


> So Im currently using mine as a preamp to my burson soloist SL Mk1 (2W per channel). So when I JUST listen to the burson preamped with the Vali I max out the Vali. The only time I lower the Vali as the preamp is when I want to A-B between the Burson without the preamp and with the preamp and I sloppily volume match the 2 inputs. What i'd say is that it does give a _little_ tube flavor but it's nothing to write home about. it's very subtle.



I tried to get tubey goodness using my OG Vali 2 as a preamp to my iFi iDSD Black Label. Sadly, it just wasn't worth the effort.


----------



## elee703

InvisibleInk said:


> I tried to get tubey goodness using my OG Vali 2 as a preamp to my iFi iDSD Black Label. Sadly, it just wasn't worth the effort.



Yeah, whatever differences in sound im hearing might just be connections/distortion/etc. It's ever so slight and not really working and i even have an Amperex Holland tube which is pretty tubey


----------



## jonathan c

InvisibleInk said:


> I tried to get tubey goodness using my OG Vali 2 as a preamp to my iFi iDSD Black Label. Sadly, it just wasn't worth the effort.


That effort would have had limited prospects. The Vali 2 _is _a hybrid itself (50% SS, 50% VT). Used as a preamp to a SS amp, the ‘net result’ would approximate 75% SS, 25% VT.


----------



## adydula

Thats a really simplistic analogy, it does have some merit thought.
But its much more complex than this IMO.

How the devices are being used in each area of the circuit, their interactions etc may make the percentages way off.

:>)


----------



## jonathan c

adydula said:


> Thats a really simplistic analogy, it does have some merit thought.
> But its much more complex than this IM*O*
> 
> How the devices are being used in each area of the circuit, their interactions etc *may *make the percentages way off.
> ...


Agreed, but one’s expectation of ‘tubeiness’ has to be lowered when ‘merging’ a hybrid amp with a SS amp vs merging a tube amp with a SS amp.


----------



## Mr Trev

But when using the pre-outs of the V2 aren't we only using the tube stage (in all it's negative feedbacked glory)?


----------



## jonathan c




----------



## adydula (Oct 3, 2022)

I just love it when you go to the source and get a response!
Thanks Schiit!

The other question you should ask Tom E.

If the pre outs go thru all the stuff, ie both stages, then what is the difference in outputs?
Voltage, Impedance etc.

Hmmm.

A schematic would tell you this.


----------



## jonathan c

adydula said:


> I just love it when you go to the source and get a response!
> Thanks Schiit!
> 
> The other question you should ask Tom E.
> ...


Why? Are you asking about differences between stages? If the signal goes through all stages, it would seem that the specifications vis-a-vis final output are what matter (to a user). From Vali 2 part of Schiit Site:


----------



## adydula (Oct 3, 2022)

I think and i may be "WRONG" but the outs for the headamp part and the outs for the pre-amp part are probably a tad different.
The reason I say this is normally preamp outputs are required to drive a much higher impedance load than headphone amps.

The main differences are preamp outputs drive much higher impedance loads than the head amp needs to.

Typically a preamp is driving things 10K - 47K ohms, 1 V RMS
A headamp looks at a30-50 ohms load, yes some go up to 300 + ohms, but reduced power output, voltage levels .5 v - 5 v RMS typical...

So without having further info from Schiit, or a schematic I am still at odds....with this...

But its not a real care here, I dont use the pre outs on any of my head amps except for the HPA-1 as a test.

Let us know if you get any more info from Schiit...good stuff.

Alex


----------



## adydula (Oct 4, 2022)

Got the 16 6CG7 package yesterday all tested ok.

Here are some pix:

Left tube = Bogen Made by RCA
Right tube - RCA Clear Top, Side Getter
Slight difference in the shields. Note difference in ridges and end marks
(Doubt that this would amount to any real discernible difference).

Even though it looks like there is "getter" internal flashing on the top, the getter is a side getter.
Some clear tops have a smidgen of flashing on the top. But nothing compared to the side flashing.






Bogen on top, RCA on bottom:
Big difference here is how they connect mechanically the plates for the two sections.
In the RCA they have these larger clips, vs no clips in the RCA made for Bogen tubes.
(Again should not influence the tubes perf IMO).





This for me goes to show all the many variations and tube lore...
So many vendors, parts and internals....make you really wonder eh ?

Alex


----------



## adydula

The Bogen tested very strong, and its in the Vali 2 + and sounds very, very good...
Like getting basically another RCA Clear Top...


----------



## adydula

Here is a RCA clear top without the same plate mounting "clips"on the upper mica support.
Compared to a 6BZ7/6BZ7A from CANADA, no vendor markings,,,

Not the HUGE size difference!


----------



## adydula

bcowen said:


> Can't see all of them very well, but I see a clear top (side getter) RCA in there which is quite nice.  And the Westinghouse...if it has staggered plates and a top D getter, it sounds very much like the 6SN7 with that configuration that is well liked by many (myself included).


Its a top D getter!


----------



## adydula

This one is an unknown to me :

The shield is made very different.
Instead of being a flat plate structure ( not referring to the plate!), its like folded at the edges and, looks
like a solid rectangular structure, its only bent over at the two edges.


----------



## adydula

_@bcowen 
Westinghouse plays well!



_


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> _@bcowen
> Westinghouse plays well!
> 
> _


Sweet!


----------



## adydula

Things are getting really elevated here!
LOL!
Silvertone 6CG7.


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Things are getting really elevated here!
> LOL!
> Silvertone 6CG7.


How does it sound?  Any idea who made it?  Probably RCA, but that’s just a wild guess.


----------



## adydula (Oct 9, 2022)

bcowen said:


> How does it sound?  Any idea who made it?  Probably RCA, but that’s just a wild guess.


Iooks like an RCA tube identical side by side..
Sounds sublime IMO.
With the D8000 and the TDA 1541 NOS dac its very holographic sounding, as good as anything else.
Even the EH 6CG7...really close...
Got 2 of them in the mix.

One is 86/85 and the other is 80/83.

:>)

Alex


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


> Iooks like an RCA tube identical side by side..
> Sounds sublime IMO.
> With the D8000 and the TDA 1541 NOS dac its very holographic sounding, as good as anything else.
> Even the EH 6CG7...really close...
> ...


RCA was really good at those.  The RCA clear top 12AU7 is also an excellent sounding tube.  Used to be able to pick them up for $2 or $3 a piece...


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 10, 2022)

bcowen said:


> RCA was really good at those.  The RCA clear top 12AU7 is also an excellent sounding tube.  Used to be able to pick them up for $2 or $3 a piece...


...before a certain NC Head-Fier swooped in 🤣? Seriously though, the RCA cleartop is a gem and is still inexpensive compared to other current offerings.☑️


----------



## adydula




----------



## jonathan c

adydula said:


>


Are you preparing for a 12AU7 Folksvangr?😂


----------



## Ichos

adydula said:


>


WOW!


----------



## adydula

@jonathan c 

Hey thats a great idea!!  LOL!

@Ichos WOW , yup and this stash only cost me $20!
Talk about being at the right place at the right time!

These will far outlast my remaining listening years!
:>)

Alex


----------



## Mr Trev

adydula said:


> @jonathan c
> 
> Hey thats a great idea!!  LOL!
> 
> ...


Man, for a 20 even if only 2 or 3 were in good condition it'd be a great buy


----------



## adydula

Mr Trev said:


> Man, for a 20 even if only 2 or 3 were in good condition it'd be a great buy


All 16 are in good condition...this was a really great deal for me....
Some are very strong like new and 3/4 's of them are closely matched as well...
Merry Christmas here! Early.


----------



## jonathan c

adydula said:


> @jonathan c
> 
> Hey thats a great idea!!  LOL!
> 
> ...


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021.]


----------



## Mr Trev

adydula said:


> All 16 are in good condition...this was a really great deal for me....
> Some are very strong like new and 3/4 's of them are closely matched as well...
> Merry Christmas here! Early.


Awesome. I hate you


----------



## bcowen

adydula said:


>


Show off.   🤣


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> ...before a certain NC Head-Fier swooped in 🤣? Seriously though, the RCA cleartop is a gem and is still inexpensive compared to other current offerings.☑️


LOL!  I'm innocent, at least of late.  Haven't had anything that uses a 12AU7 natively in quite a while, so all mine came from 20+ years ago.  With today's prices though, I wish I'd hoarded stashed a lot more. 🤣


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> LOL!  I'm innocent, at least of late.  Haven't had anything that uses a 12AU7 natively in quite a while, so all mine came from 20+ years ago.  With today's prices though, I wish I'd hoarded stashed a lot more. 🤣


😫…no cleartops in the 401k…😫


----------



## adydula

bcowen said:


> Show off.   🤣


Dang I have to do some more Ebay surfing!!
LOL!
Alex


----------



## jonathan c

adydula said:


> Dang I have to do some more Ebay surfing!!
> LOL!
> Alex


Did you ask bcowen if there were tubes in the boxes?…🤣


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Did you ask bcowen if there were tubes in the boxes?…🤣


Shhhhh.  You said you wouldn't tell anybody.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Shhhhh.  You said you wouldn't tell anybody.


Well, now the secrets out. Inside the boxes are more smaller boxes. Inside those boxes? Yup even smaller boxes. Inside those?… Boxes, all the way down


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Well, now the secrets out. Inside the boxes are more smaller boxes. Inside those boxes? Yup even smaller boxes. Inside those?… Boxes, all the way down


I have a reputation for cardboard.   🤣


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I have a reputation for _carolina blue_ cardboard. 🤣


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021.]


----------



## threegr

Anyone tried Vali 2++ with 6922/ECC88 adapters?


----------



## adydula

threegr said:


> Anyone tried Vali 2++ with 6922/ECC88 adapters?







Even with an adapter....


----------



## adydula

Dp.


----------



## inmytaxi

Not certain but I believe the double is the same as the single but with different pin positions and possibly updated circuit with regard to part availability. Otherwise it seems like these two are identical.  At least to these ears.


----------



## adydula

Pins and pcb land layout...basically the "same" amp..

I dont hear any real differences.

Both stellar...


----------



## darktater

new to everything here (and serious-ish audio). Just ordered my Vali 2 today, so I'll have a bit of time to read through this whole thread and the tube rolling thread. Glad to be here, plenty to learn!


----------



## bcowen

darktater said:


> new to everything here (and serious-ish audio). Just ordered my Vali 2 today, so I'll have a bit of time to read through this whole thread and the tube rolling thread. Glad to be here, plenty to learn!


Welcome!  Did you get the 2++?


----------



## darktater (Oct 29, 2022)

bcowen said:


> Welcome!  Did you get the 2++?


hehe I did! I didn't realize it until I saw your post and when to schiit's website to double check. I ordered the Vali 2++, Modi-3E and snakeoil cables from them. I haven't really spent any money on audio gear in 30+ years, been getting by on PC speakers for a couple of decades. Needless to say I'm looking forward to trying all this stuff out!

PS: just noticed we are neighbors, I'm just across the line from Charlotte.


----------



## bcowen

darktater said:


> hehe I did! I didn't realize it until I saw your post and when to schiit's website to double check. I ordered the Vali 2++, Modi-3E and snakeoil cables from them. I haven't really spent any money on audio gear in 30+ years, been getting by on PC speakers for a couple of decades. Needless to say I'm looking forward to trying all this stuff out!
> 
> PS: just noticed we are neighbors, I'm just across the line from Charlotte.


Well, howdy neighbor!  🤣 

If your (current) reference point is PC speakers, I think you're in for a very happy surprise with the Vali.  What headphones will you be using?


----------



## darktater

Thanks! I decided to start with HD6XX cans. I was going to jump in a bit harder, but being 56 and a former artilleryman, I decided to find out exactly what I'm capable of hearing before getting silly. (I'll do that after I find out).


----------



## bcowen

darktater said:


> Thanks! I decided to start with HD6XX cans. I was going to jump in a bit harder, but being 56 and a former artilleryman, I decided to find out exactly what I'm capable of hearing before getting silly. (I'll do that after I find out).


Awesome.  In my personal opinion, you'll have two of the very best bang-for-the-buck pieces out there.  I have the OG Vali 2 and it plays the 6XX's very nicely.  I assume the 2++ will do the same.


----------



## Pondoro

darktater said:


> Thanks! I decided to start with HD6XX cans. I was going to jump in a bit harder, but being 56 and a former artilleryman, I decided to find out exactly what I'm capable of hearing before getting silly. (I'll do that after I find out).


Thanks for your service! My grandfather and my father hunted, served in the wars, and worked around noisy machines, both ended up rather deaf. I avoided the military but added rock concerts and stock car racing to the mix. I have been very protective of my hearing because of them.


----------



## darktater

Pondoro said:


> Thanks for your service! My grandfather and my father hunted, served in the wars, and worked around noisy machines, both ended up rather deaf. I avoided the military but added rock concerts and stock car racing to the mix. I have been very protective of my hearing because of them.


Good plan! besides the Army I shot competively for a while, worked as a radio DJ, and enjoyed listening to music at high volume. I use hearing aids from time to time as well. So, I'm not sure exactly what I'll be able to pick up but I do know what I hear will sound better  Volume will be moderate from now on!


----------



## guildenstern (Nov 3, 2022)

Ichos said:


> Great writing.
> Thank you very much for your impressions.
> Now in order to be %100 fair you must try the ++ tubes to the + with an adapter.


Greetings, helpful posters to this thread. Picking up on the point Ichos made: "Now in order to be %100 fair you must try the ++ tubes to the + with an adapter." So, has anyone compared the original original Vali 2 using 5670 tube (with adapter) to the current 2++ using the same tube? I ask because XERO1 recently sang the praises of his new 2++, using the stock 6N3P and a GE 5670, which he preferred to the original Vali 2 using Genalex GL E88CC. But he did not have an adapter that would allow him to use the 5670 in his original Vali 2 (which I bought from him and am enjoying very much, and now I'm going through this tube-rolling thread, and down the rabbit hole we slide... )


----------



## elee703

Added a Loki mini to my Vali 2+. it's fun so far!


----------



## darktater

Modi 3E & Vali 2++ arrived today! Headphones won't get here until tomorrow, but that didn't stop me - using the wife's piano headphones to starting playing with them. Working like a champ


----------



## HWB3

Here is my Schiit stack. Sure, a lot of fun to play with.


----------



## HWB3

darktater said:


> Modi 3E & Vali 2++ arrived today! Headphones won't get here until tomorrow, but that didn't stop me - using the wife's piano headphones to starting playing with them. Working like a champ


You'll enjoy the 6XX's with the Vali 2++. My AKG K702's play nicely with the amp too. I have the Modi 3+ for a DAC. From what I've read, you should like the 3E.


----------



## darktater

HWB3 said:


> You'll enjoy the 6XX's with the Vali 2++. My AKG K702's play nicely with the amp too. I have the Modi 3+ for a DAC. From what I've read, you should like the 3E.


you are correct sir! 6XX's arrived today, currently listening to an assortment of music


----------



## Tensen

darktater said:


> Thanks! I decided to start with HD6XX cans. I was going to jump in a bit harder, but being 56 and a former artilleryman, I decided to find out exactly what I'm capable of hearing before getting silly. (I'll do that after I find out).


I'm Listening to this RIGHT NOW!  Of course, I'm running the Vali 2+ but with RCA Command 5670 and adapter.  One of my favorite tubes for the Vali 2+.  What amazes me is that on Low Gain it can drive these wonderfully at about 1pm on the volume pot.  Can't go above 10pm on high gain, but man does it open these up!


----------



## darktater (Nov 9, 2022)

Tensen said:


> I'm Listening to this RIGHT NOW!  Of course, I'm running the Vali 2+ but with RCA Command 5670 and adapter.  One of my favorite tubes for the Vali 2+.  What amazes me is that on Low Gain it can drive these wonderfully at about 1pm on the volume pot.  Can't go above 10pm on high gain, but man does it open these up!


I dropped a WE396A in mine (No problem with stock tube, but no reference either). I see about the same thing with the gain settings, really amazing, full sound.


----------



## guildenstern (Nov 15, 2022)

sold on Reddit AVexchange 

*Who wants to try a 5670 tube?*

Fellow Vali 2 fans, I just tried a 5670 tube, which gets a lot of love in this thread. I can understand the enthusiasm, but I like my old tube a little better.

I bought the tube and adapter about a week ago from Tube Depot for $24.95 plus tax and shipping—it’s pretty much brand new. If you'd like to try the 5670 and save more than ten bucks off retail (with tax and shipping), then I'll send you the tube and adapter for only *$15 total *by PayPal, US-48 shipping included. Just send me a PM.

Link to my Head-Fi trader feedback


----------



## Tensen

If you can find the triple mica version of that tube I highly recommend it!


----------



## ssmith3046

I'm a Schiithead but have never owned the Vali 2 so I have a Vali 2 ++ on the way. I have many 12ax7 tubes from vintage to new but unfortunately they won't help me here. I'm glad that this little amp only takes one though. Sunday delivery!


----------



## ssmith3046 (Nov 13, 2022)

I don't think my Asgard 3 will be getting much use anymore.  This little Vali 2++ is really something.  I don't know how Jason and Mike keep coming up with this budget audio equipment that performs so well. It's crazy. The tube that came with it sounds good but of course I'm going to have to roll. I mentioned in a previous post that I have at least 50 or more12ax7 vintage and new tubes that I wish I could use but at least this little amp only uses one.
So far I just tried my Sennheiser HD600 headphones and I'm surprised that there's power to spare. Plenty of it.
Another great Schiit piece of gear!


----------



## Mr Trev

ssmith3046 said:


> I don't think my Asgard 3 will be getting much use anymore.  This little Vali 2++ is really something.  I don't know how Jason and Mike keep coming up with this budget audio equipment that performs so well. It's crazy. The tube that came with it sounds good but of course I'm going to have to roll. I mentioned in a previous post that I have at least 50 or more12ax7 vintage and new tubes that I wish I could use but at least this little amp only uses one.
> So far I just tried my Sennheiser HD600 headphones and I'm surprised that there's power to spare. Plenty of it.
> Another great Schiit piece of gear!


Like I mentioned before… adapters are your friend!
Although, the 12AX7 might have too much gain for the Vali. I'll need to defer to somebody that's actually tried one (I have used 12AU7 and they sound great. IMO, better than the 6DJ8 family tubes - probably the 5670 too, but I don't have many of them to compare)


----------



## LobalWarming

Mr Trev said:


> Like I mentioned before… adapters are your friend!
> Although, the 12AX7 might have too much gain for the Vali. I'll need to defer to somebody that's actually tried one (I have used 12AU7 and they sound great. IMO, better than the 6DJ8 family tubes - probably the 5670 too, but I don't have many of them to compare)


12AX7s are not your headphone amp friend - unless you want death metal cochlea membranes. With an amp factor of 100 and nasty distortion characteristics, best to stay with the more gentile members of the family, 12AU7s with an amp factor of 20. Although the 12AT7s even with an amp factor of 60 are much more refined and enjoyable than the 12AX7s. Save those for shredding with your Marshall. 

Best I've heard with my Vali 2+ is a pair of NU 7A4s. Using another friendly adapter!


----------



## ssmith3046

LobalWarming said:


> 12AX7s are not your headphone amp friend - unless you want death metal cochlea membranes. With an amp factor of 100 and nasty distortion characteristics, best to stay with the more gentile members of the family, 12AU7s with an amp factor of 20. Although the 12AT7s even with an amp factor of 60 are much more refined and enjoyable than the 12AX7s. Save those for shredding with your Marshall.
> 
> Best I've heard with my Vali 2+ is a pair of NU 7A4s. Using another friendly adapter!


My 12ax7 tubes are left over from the years I owned a Fisher 500C and X-100-C.  I still use a Harman Kardon A500 tube integrated amp. 
Thanks for the tube suggestion.


----------



## Mr Trev

LobalWarming said:


> 12AX7s are not your headphone amp friend - unless you want death metal cochlea membranes. With an amp factor of 100 and nasty distortion characteristics, best to stay with the more gentile members of the family, 12AU7s with an amp factor of 20. Although the 12AT7s even with an amp factor of 60 are much more refined and enjoyable than the 12AX7s. Save those for shredding with your Marshall.
> 
> Best I've heard with my Vali 2+ is a pair of NU 7A4s. Using another friendly adapter!


Interesting, but wouldn't the adapter plus tubes be bigger than the Vali itself


----------



## LobalWarming

Mr Trev said:


> Interesting, but wouldn't the adapter plus tubes be bigger than the Vali itself


Maybe... but with the outboard pontoon stabilizers attached, the Vali can support a volume knob large enough to be operated by a normal biped - not just those nerdy schiitheads that file down their fingers to a  single svelte point.


----------



## AstronomerXI

threegr said:


> Anyone tried Vali 2++ with 6922/ECC88 adapters?


I have. It worked just fine and sounded pretty good. No issues.


----------



## threegr

AstronomerXI said:


> I have. It worked just fine and sounded pretty good. No issues.


Thanks for the confirmation. In the end, I had a shopping spree and bought 10+ 5670/6N3P tubes. Decided to sell my 6922/ECC88 collection. But I might try the adapter one day, if I change my mind


----------



## ssmith3046

I received a NOS JAN GE 5670W today for my Vali 2++ . I put it in the amp and I've had a CD on repeat in my Audiolab transport for two hours. A big improvement over the tube that shipped with the amp already. Well worth the low price for the tube. Really a remarkable little amp for the price.


----------



## toni2068

ssmith3046 said:


> So far I just tried my Sennheiser HD600 headphones and I'm surprised that there's power to spare. Plenty of it.
> Another great Schiit piece of gear!


I have the 600 ohm DT 990s and the Vali 2++ runs them pretty damn loud if I need to


----------



## HWB3

I just ordered a JAN GE 5670W for a stocking stuffer.


----------



## ssmith3046 (Nov 24, 2022)

HWB3 said:


> I just ordered a JAN GE 5670W for a stocking stuffer.


My new one just keeps getting better and better.


----------



## jonathan c

toni2068 said:


> I have the 600 ohm DT 990s and the Vali 2++ runs them pretty damn loud if I need to


How about ‘heft’ and ‘dynamic range’? Any of the 600-ohm Beyerdynamics need _voltage _to really ‘come on song’.


----------



## HWB3

ssmith3046 said:


> My new one just keeps getting better and better.


I haven't used my solid-state amp since I got the Vali 2++ at the end of September. I put a couple of hours on it last night. Like you, the new tube will probably keep my other amp sitting on the sidelines for a while longer.


----------



## ssmith3046

HWB3 said:


> I haven't used my solid-state amp since I got the Vali 2++ at the end of September. I put a couple of hours on it last night. Like you, the new tube will probably keep my other amp sitting on the sidelines for a while longer.


Same here. I've had an Asgard 3 for a long time and I'm thinking about selling it because I like this little amp better.


----------



## bcowen

ssmith3046 said:


> Same here. I've had an Asgard 3 for a long time and I'm thinking about selling it because I like this little amp better.


I have a Magni Piety on order.  First solid-state amp I've purchased in many, many years.  Be interested to see how it stacks up to the Vali 2.


----------



## jonathan c

…..a ‘bcowensque’ thought…..😳🤔😄 ….. putting a General Western Electric 396A / 2C51 ($180+) in Vali 2++ ($149). I have been using the WE w/adapters in Woo Audio WA2: absolutely stunning! …Vali 2++ for getaway Laurel Mountains house …


----------



## ssmith3046

bcowen said:


> I have a Magni Piety on order.  First solid-state amp I've purchased in many, many years.  Be interested to see how it stacks up to the Vali 2.


I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on the Piety.


----------



## ssmith3046 (Nov 24, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> …..a ‘bcowensque’ thought…..😳🤔😄 ….. putting a General Western Electric 396A / 2C51 ($180+) in Vali 2++ ($149). I have been using the WE w/adapters in Woo Audio WA2: absolutely stunning! …Vali 2++ for getaway Laurel Mountains house …


The thought has crossed my mind too. Buying a Western Electric 396A used that test strong would be an option for me.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> I have a Magni Piety on order.  First solid-state amp I've purchased in many, many years.  Be interested to see how it stacks up to the Vali 2.


Do share when you get it. The quick skim I did on "the site that can't be mentioned" seemed to imply the Piety was tubier sounding than the V2


----------



## ssmith3046

Mr Trev said:


> Do share when you get it. The quick skim I did on "the site that can't be mentioned" seemed to imply the Piety was tubier sounding than the V2


I've read posts that stated that the Western Electric 396A made the Vali 2++ sound too tubey


----------



## Cheesebuggah (Nov 24, 2022)

Hello tubers, 

Last year I was tasked with a difficult choice between the Magni 3+ and the Vali 2+ (which had just released back then). It was my choice of first amp and I think I made the right choice going with a SS. This year I have procured the funds to potentially obtain the Vali 2++. I would like to try tube, even though this is a hybrid. Unfortunately, I have heard that the Magni 3+ and the Vali 2+/+ sounds nearly identical. This could be an issue since I don't want to shell out me hard earned dollaros on more of just the same. Even if I were to change the tube: I don't want to spend a lot on an aftermarket tube. 

What r ur opinions, tubemeisters? Please be as unbiased as can be and let me know! 

-cheese


----------



## jonathan c

ssmith3046 said:


> I've read posts that stated that the Western Electric 396A made the Vali 2++ sound *too* tubey


It certainly does not have that effect with Woo WA2.


----------



## ssmith3046 (Nov 24, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> It certainly does not have that effect with Woo WA2.


I'll have to try one out. I'm not sure what defines "too tubey".  I've owned a Fisher 500C,  Fisher X-100-C, and currently use a Harman Kardon A500 integrated tube amp. I like the tube sound.  Too bad the Vali 2++ doesn't use a 12ax7. I have accumulated dozens of those over the years.


----------



## bcowen (Nov 24, 2022)

ssmith3046 said:


> I've read posts that stated that the Western Electric 396A made the Vali 2++ sound too tubey


The WE 396A is an awesome tube, but it doesn't light my fire in the OG Vali 2.  While the mids are glorious, the bass is a bit too rounded and although the highs are extended enough they seem a bit dialed down in the mix. Note that's just my impression with my gear.  I haven't heard the Vali 2+ (or the 2++), but many impressions I've seen describe the 2+ as a bit brighter/leaner sounding than the OG, so the 396A might be a very nice fit in it.

This is still my favorite tube in the OG Vali.  @jonathan c made me buy it.  I hated him for it when I placed the order, but then reversed course and loved him once I got the tube.  🤣  Silly to spend this much on a tube for a $149 amp? Well, probably, but that's never stopped me before and probably won't in the future. 

https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


----------



## davidfrance

Cheesebuggah said:


> Hello tubers,
> 
> Last year I was tasked with a difficult choice between the Magni 3+ and the Vali 2+ (which had just released back then). It was my choice of first amp and I think I made the right choice going with a SS. This year I have procured the funds to potentially obtain the Vali 2++. I would like to try tube, even though this is a hybrid. Unfortunately, I have heard that the Magni 3+ and the Vali 2+/+ sounds nearly identical. This could be an issue since I don't want to shell out me hard earned dollaros on more of just the same. Even if I were to change the tube: I don't want to spend a lot on an aftermarket tube.
> 
> ...


The thing is is that there is some difference. Even you say « nearly identical », not « identical ». But it’s not really a lot.

I would say just try to forget about it, but won’t that be hard ? Wouldn’t you be curious to hear with your own ears how much of a difference there is ? But if you can just forget about it and enjoy your Magni 3+, consider yourself lucky.


----------



## Cheesebuggah

davidfrance said:


> The thing is is that there is some difference. Even you say « nearly identical », not « identical ». But it’s not really a lot.
> 
> I would say just try to forget about it, but won’t that be hard ? Wouldn’t you be curious to hear with your own ears how much of a difference there is ? But if you can just forget about it and enjoy your Magni 3+, consider yourself lucky.


It won't be hard to forget about it for I still enjoy the Magni. I'll wait for the next iteration or an actually OTL that interests me. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## wawatusi

bcowen said:


> The WE 396A is an awesome tube, but it doesn't light my fire in the OG Vali 2.  While the mids are glorious, the bass is a bit too rounded and although the highs are extended enough they seem a bit dialed down in the mix. Note that's just my impression with my gear.  I haven't heard the Vali 2+ (or the 2++), but many impressions I've seen describe the 2+ as a bit brighter/leaner sounding than the OG, so the 396A might be a very nice fit in it.
> 
> This is still my favorite tube in the OG Vali.  @jonathan c made me buy it.  I hated him for it when I placed the order, but then reversed course and loved him once I got the tube.  🤣  Silly to spend this much on a tube for a $149 amp? Well, probably, but that's never stopped me before and probably won't in the future.
> 
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


love that stand.  what is it? thanks!


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> The WE 396A is an awesome tube, but it doesn't light my fire in the OG Vali 2.  While the mids are glorious, the bass is a bit too rounded and although the highs are extended enough they seem a bit dialed down in the mix. Note that's just my impression with my gear.  I haven't heard the Vali 2+ (or the 2++), but many impressions I've seen describe the 2+ as a bit brighter/leaner sounding than the OG, so the 396A might be a very nice fit in it.
> 
> This is still my favorite tube in the OG Vali.  @jonathan c made me buy it.  I hated him for it when I placed the order, but then reversed course and loved him once I got the tube.  🤣  Silly to spend this much on a tube for a $149 amp? Well, probably, but that's never stopped me before and probably won't in the future.
> 
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


It’s a fantastic tube in Icon Audio HP8 and in LTA MZ3 also !! 😁


----------



## bcowen

wawatusi said:


> love that stand.  what is it? thanks!


I got that from an Ebay seller in China quite a while ago.  Don't see them listed there anymore, or maybe I'm not searching correctly.  Looks to be the identical thing here though:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251...ba!65120630370!sea&curPageLogUid=CCxWkWTyZY04


----------



## RickB

Cheesebuggah said:


> Hello tubers,
> 
> Last year I was tasked with a difficult choice between the Magni 3+ and the Vali 2+ (which had just released back then). It was my choice of first amp and I think I made the right choice going with a SS. This year I have procured the funds to potentially obtain the Vali 2++. I would like to try tube, even though this is a hybrid. Unfortunately, I have heard that the Magni 3+ and the Vali 2+/+ sounds nearly identical. This could be an issue since I don't want to shell out me hard earned dollaros on more of just the same. Even if I were to change the tube: I don't want to spend a lot on an aftermarket tube.
> 
> ...


I used to own a Magni 3+. I didn't like it very much. To me, the Vali 2, and the Vali 2+ sound very different, and better.


----------



## Cheesebuggah

RickB said:


> I used to own a Magni 3+. I didn't like it very much. To me, the Vali 2, and the Vali 2+ sound very different, and better.


Hmm, different and better. I also noticed that you run the 600s on them. I'll have to look more into comparisons. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> I have a Magni Piety on order.  First solid-state amp I've purchased in many, many years.  Be interested to see how it stacks up to the Vali 2.


Wouldn't it be a total trip if you liked the Piety more than your Voltsbangr (or whatever it's called)


----------



## wawatusi

bcowen said:


> I got that from an Ebay seller in China quite a while ago.  Don't see them listed there anymore, or maybe I'm not searching correctly.  Looks to be the identical thing here though:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832654022506.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6ae035b2cOnYI1&algo_pvid=101c5330-49ea-4344-85b2-05df0787dfa0&algo_exp_id=101c5330-49ea-4344-85b2-05df0787dfa0-4&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"65120630370"}&pdp_npi=2@dis!USD!35.99!31.67!!!!!@210318cf16693243014221629e14ba!65120630370!sea&curPageLogUid=CCxWkWTyZY04


thanks! looks great


----------



## LobalWarming

Mr Trev said:


> Wouldn't it be a total trip if you liked the Piety more than your Voltsbangr (or whatever it's called)


A trip? Or a walk of shame down Heretic lane? 

What if he wants a different tone of pious? Can he roll transistors as quickly as swapping a 4033 for a sweet pair of 6J5s?


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Wouldn't it be a total trip if you liked the Piety more than your Voltsbangr (or whatever it's called)


Please.  It's Volkswagnr.   🤣 

Would be interesting.  But then I could sell the Volks and buy a pair of ZMF VC's....


----------



## sp79

@bcowen  what kind of adapter is that for the cv4033?


----------



## bcowen

sp79 said:


> @bcowen  what kind of adapter is that for the cv4033?


It's a 12AU7 -> 6922 adapter.  The 12AU7 / 12AT7 / 12AX7 all have the same pinout and heater wiring conventions, so an adapter with any of them on top should work.  Note that I have the OG Vali 2 which uses the 6922 natively (as does the 2+).  The 2++ uses a 5670 natively though, so a different adapter is needed for it.  Note also that the CV4033 in native form has flying leads (long wires coming out the bottom) rather than pins.  Pulse Tubes mounts the base to them so that they can be used like a regular noval tube.


----------



## sp79

bcowen said:


> It's a 12AU7 -> 6922 adapter.  The 12AU7 / 12AT7 / 12AX7 all have the same pinout and heater wiring conventions, so an adapter with any of them on top should work.  Note that I have the OG Vali 2 which uses the 6922 natively (as does the 2+).  The 2++ uses a 5670 natively though, so a different adapter is needed for it.  Note also that the CV4033 in native form has flying leads (long wires coming out the bottom) rather than pins.  Pulse Tubes mounts the base to them so that they can be used like a regular noval tube.


Perfect, thank you!  I have the 2+, just got thru rereading the Vali 2 tube rolling thread. I have a Tungsol 6sn7 w/mouse ears and it sounds really nice on good recordings, but, looking for a little bit more


----------



## xuan87

New owner of a Vali 2++ and will like to seek some advice:

I have my PC hooked to my Modi Multibit hooked to the Vali 2++ (high gain) hooked to my JBL powered monitors.

Whenever I switched on or switched off my Vali, there will be a loud "Thud" sound from my monitors even with the volume control turned to zero. Is this considered normal behavior for the amp? Is it because I'm using it in high gain?


----------



## tafens

xuan87 said:


> New owner of a Vali 2++ and will like to seek some advice:
> 
> I have my PC hooked to my Modi Multibit hooked to the Vali 2++ (high gain) hooked to my JBL powered monitors.
> 
> Whenever I switched on or switched off my Vali, there will be a loud "Thud" sound from my monitors even with the volume control turned to zero. Is this considered normal behavior for the amp? Is it because I'm using it in high gain?


A pop or thud when turning on could be due to an initial DC offset still remaining after the muting relay turns on the outputs.

As a general advice, it is good practice to turn on the equipment in order of source first (computer in this case), then DAC, preamp, and finally power amp or powered speakers.
Also wait to turn on the power amp/speakers until the pre amp has finished starting up.

Turning off is done in reverse, so first turn off the power amp or powered speakers, then pre amp, then DAC, and last source/computer.


----------



## ssmith3046

xuan87 said:


> New owner of a Vali 2++ and will like to seek some advice:
> 
> I have my PC hooked to my Modi Multibit hooked to the Vali 2++ (high gain) hooked to my JBL powered monitors.
> 
> Whenever I switched on or switched off my Vali, there will be a loud "Thud" sound from my monitors even with the volume control turned to zero. Is this considered normal behavior for the amp? Is it because I'm using it in high gain?


Loving my Vali 2++.  The last post nails it. The Modi multibit is a great fit for the Vali 2++. I bought a JAN GE 5670W and it's setting in nicely.


----------



## xuan87

tafens said:


> A pop or thud when turning on could be due to an initial DC offset still remaining after the muting relay turns on the outputs.
> 
> As a general advice, it is good practice to turn on the equipment in order of source first (computer in this case), then DAC, preamp, and finally power amp or powered speakers.
> Also wait to turn on the power amp/speakers until the pre amp has finished starting up.
> ...



The thing is I usually keep my computer, DAC, and powered speakers switched on 24-7, and I only switch off the tube amp because my cats love jumping on my table and I don't want them to be burnt by the tubes and possibly kicking out at it.

I was previously using an Asgard 3 and it was also left on pretty much all the time. 

Can anyone tell if there is anything functionally wrong with my Vali? Or is it working as intended?


----------



## Mr Trev (Nov 28, 2022)

xuan87 said:


> The thing is I usually keep my computer, DAC, and powered speakers switched on 24-7, and I only switch off the tube amp because my cats love jumping on my table and I don't want them to be burnt by the tubes and possibly kicking out at it.
> 
> I was previously using an Asgard 3 and it was also left on pretty much all the time.
> 
> Can anyone tell if there is anything functionally wrong with my Vali? Or is it working as intended?


To the best of my knowledge, Schiit pops. One of things I've been trained not to do is put my headphones on before I turn the Vali on. Annoying, sure. But a fact of living with a V2

BTW, your cats will only be burned by the tube once. once


----------



## xuan87

Mr Trev said:


> To the best of my knowledge, Schiit pops. One of things I've been trained not to do is put my headphones on before I turn the Vali on. Annoying, sure. But a fact of living with a V2
> 
> BTW, your cats will only be burned by the tube once. once



Hahahaha I agree with you on the being burned once part. I'm more concerned with them lashing out in surprise and knocking the amp off the table and breaking the tube.

Thanks for the heads up with the popping thing.

Time to look at doing some tube rolling.


----------



## threegr

I also have Asgard 3 hooked as a preamp to Airpulse powered speakers most of the time and there are no pops when switching it off/on, although I rarely do that since it's on 24/7. Recently I bought Vali 2++ for the office setup, but before that I tried it at home as a preamp and I also noticed the pop. My solution was to change input source on the speakers, but surely I would be annoyed if I had to do that all the time.


----------



## Tensen

bcowen said:


> I got that from an Ebay seller in China quite a while ago.  Don't see them listed there anymore, or maybe I'm not searching correctly.  Looks to be the identical thing here though:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832654022506.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6ae035b2cOnYI1&algo_pvid=101c5330-49ea-4344-85b2-05df0787dfa0&algo_exp_id=101c5330-49ea-4344-85b2-05df0787dfa0-4&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"65120630370"}&pdp_npi=2@dis!USD!35.99!31.67!!!!!@210318cf16693243014221629e14ba!65120630370!sea&curPageLogUid=CCxWkWTyZY04


I believe apos sells it also. It’s actually the topping rack.
yup found it.

https://apos.audio/products/topping...ZEoZePgFrddfw6hO3DqVU4VV6DBuJvrMaAp10EALw_wcB


----------



## xuan87

threegr said:


> I also have Asgard 3 hooked as a preamp to Airpulse powered speakers most of the time and there are no pops when switching it off/on, although I rarely do that since it's on 24/7. Recently I bought Vali 2++ for the office setup, but before that I tried it at home as a preamp and I also noticed the pop. My solution was to change input source on the speakers, but surely I would be annoyed if I had to do that all the time.



Hey! I also switched over from the Asgard 3 to the Vali 2++ and I can't remember if there is any popping noise with the Asgard 3 as it was left on all the time.

What I do now is I'll unplug the RCA cable (from Vali to my speakers) before switching the Vali on or off.


----------



## tigon_ridge (Nov 30, 2022)

Purchased this Vali 2+ secondhand from a fellow head-fier. It just arrived today. 

If you're wondering why it's glowing so bright...it's not! I just overexposed the shot, taken in a very dimly lit room—just for the hell of it.

I need to buy tubes, pronto! The stock Sylvania 6BZ7 sounds way too neutral...bright and strident even. With the Sundara, it's not even close to how warm, lush, textured, authoritative, grand, and layered my Crown XLS 1502 sounds—and it's a class D SS amp! I know the Sundara likes power, but even at the same volume level, the XLS sounds way more soulful than the Vali 2+ with stock tube does.

Guess I'll order some 6N1Ps to play with. @hodgjy strongly recommended the Voskhod Rocket, so maybe I'll start with that. Maybe a Sovtek also.


----------



## ssmith3046

I'm really enjoying my Vali 2++.  The new old stock JAN G.E. 5670W is really sounding good. I have a five star ( red ) GE 5670 on the way to try out, used but tests strong. For $25 it's worth a try. I'm used to spending more on tubes so this is a nice change. I have a friend that has offered to send me one of his 1958 Western Electric 396A tubes to try out to see what I think about it. This is an affordable fun little amp.


----------



## Pondoro

I just bought a used Vali 2+, because I have so many tubes! I needed a spare amp! I think it will live at my daughter’s place in her system.


----------



## Chicagorob

@ssmith3046 Thanks for your report on the GE 5670W. I have a NOS 5670W on the way and look forward to how it performs in my new Vali 2++. I’m already blown  away with how it sounds with the stock tube.


----------



## Chicagorob

ssmith3046 said:


> Loving my Vali 2++.  The last post nails it. The Modi multibit is a great fit for the Vali 2++. I bought a JAN GE 5670W and it's setting in nicely.


100% agree on the combo. I was running a Magni + with the MM and detected some glare around 4-6 kHz. With the Vali 2++, the glare was gone, not to mention a more “organic” presentation.


----------



## ssmith3046 (Dec 8, 2022)

Chicagorob said:


> 100% agree on the combo. I was running a Magni + with the MM and detected some glare around 4-6 kHz. With the Vali 2++, the glare was gone, not to mention a more “organic” presentation.


I bought a GE 5670 five star for $20 that tests strong and I like it much more than the JAN GE 5670W . The JAN GE 5670W is still better than the tube that came with the amp though. 
Hard to beat the Modi Multibit!


----------



## Chicagorob

ssmith3046 said:


> I bought a GE 5670 five star for $20 that tests strong and I like it much more than the JAN GE 5670W . The JAN GE 5670W is still better than the tube that came with the amp though.
> Hard to beat the Modi Multibit!


The Vali 2++/MM is my end game headphone setup for my budget.


----------



## Luckyleo

Chicagorob said:


> The Vali 2++/MM is my end game headphone setup for my budget.


I love the Vali 2 ++.  Really is a tremendous value and with tube rolling your options are almost unlimited.  Enjoy!!!

Leo


----------



## ssmith3046 (Dec 8, 2022)

Chicagorob said:


> The Vali 2++/MM is my end game headphone setup for my budget.


I haven't turned on my Asgard 3 since I bought the Vali 2 ++.  I bought my Asgard 3 when it was still $200 and its  great amp but I think the Vali has a better soundstage.  More open sounding.


----------



## ld100

adydula said:


> Things are getting really elevated here!
> LOL!
> Silvertone 6CG7.



What is that fancy looking headphone metal plug?


----------



## adydula

ld100 said:


> What is that fancy looking headphone metal plug?


It is the cable that comes with Final Audio D8000 Pro headphones.
One of my ALL time favorites.


----------



## ld100

adydula said:


> It is the cable that comes with Final Audio D8000 Pro headphones.
> One of my ALL time favorites.



It does look nice for sure!


----------



## ld100

I get a really bad scratching noise on the brand new Vali ++ pot. Anyone else had the same issue?


----------



## AstronomerXI

ld100 said:


> I get a really bad scratching noise on the brand new Vali ++ pot. Anyone else had the same issue?


Is it an electrical noise or physical? If physical, pull the knob out just a fraction of a mm. I had that with my Magni.


----------



## ssmith3046

Never had that problem on mine.


----------



## ld100

AstronomerXI said:


> Is it an electrical noise or physical? If physical, pull the knob out just a fraction of a mm. I had that with my Magni.



Physical. Will try that. Thank you


----------



## Luckyleo

Listening to this from Roon > BF 2/64 > Vali 2 ++ along with my Grado Hemps (G cushions).  Love it!  A tremendous experience!..... That is, until I start listening with the same setup but replacing the Vali2 ++ with the Valhalla 2.  Better instrument separation, highs sparkle vs. meh, bass is more controlled.  Overall, a more refined and satisfying sound.  However, if you want to dip your toe into tubes, you can't go wrong with the Vali 2 ++
This is for me of course!  YMMV!!!

Leo


----------



## guildenstern

*Can anyone identify this tube?*

It came in a Vali 2 (original not "+" of any kind) that I bought used on Head-Fi. It was described as the "original tube," which would lead me to think it's a 6BZ7. It has no markings. Unlike other 6BZ7s I've seen, the getter post is not round wire but a rectangular "U" shape. 

It's one of my favorite tubes and I'd like to get a backup -- but what is it?! Thanks for any help you can offer.


----------

