# Soldering Iron Question... Solder won't stick!



## luvdunhill

Hi all! Quick, probably basic question here. Of late, I am having problems tinning my soldering iron. The solder just balls up and doesn't flow on the tip. I have a brand new tip and the first time I tinned it, everything was normal. After solder a few joints, I went to retin the tip for storage. This is when the problem occurred. My iron is on 4 of 5 heat setting. My soldering station is a Weller WLC 100 and I'm using Johnson IA-423 solder. I'm not sure what's happening here, whether the tip doesn't need tinning, or the iron is too hot or too cold etc. I also have some rosin paste flux, but I'm not too sure how to use it, if that helps at all (and a quick lesson on this would be nice too)

 Thanks in advance!


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## eVITAERC

Use the hottest setting and try again. I use the Cardas lead-free tri-eutectic and I used to have similar problems with my Hakko. Maybe try to use normal lead-tin solder if this problem persists.


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## luvdunhill

I have used the Cardas lead-free tri-eutectic and the problem persists. I also have the tip inserted into the iron all the way until the shoulder on the tip. I'm also using the smallest screwdriver tip (ST1).


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## ezkcdude

Flux, flux, flux. Can we say it enough here?


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## Zenja

It happens when the iron gets a coating of crap on it so the solder can't directly contact the metal. I don't know what the proper solution is but if it gets really bad I just use sandpaper lightly on the tip. If it's not too bad then I use a sponge/cloth to wipe the tip after putting some solder on it.


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## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ezkcdude* 
_Flux, flux, flux. Can we say it enough here?_

 

No, say it some more and maybe it will become self evident. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






  Quote:


 I also have some rosin paste flux, but I'm not too sure how to use it, if that helps at all (and a quick lesson on this would be nice too) 
 

Stick the hot iron right in the flux, then tin it. 
 You should be good to go.


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## luvdunhill

thanks all for your help. Actually, my problem was solved by Zenja's suggestion. I just rubbed the tip really hard on the sponge and the black stuff finally came off and it tinned like a dream. Do you sandpaper it when it's hot?


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## Uncle Erik

I wouldn't recommend sandpapering it when it's hot. I've never tried, but it works fine when cold.

 Also, I highly recommend you pick up one of those brass brillo-pad like soldering iron cleaners. They work great for removing crud while the iron is hot.

 DO NOT use steel wool or an actual brillo pad when hot. Steel wool contains oil to keep it from rusting and it catches fire easily. That is a lesson best learned from reading this post.


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## clatter

Hot iron, wet sponge, and a fair amount of aggression is all that's required in my opinion. Sizzle, my pretty!


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## tangent

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clatter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hot iron, wet sponge, and a fair amount of aggression is all that's required in my opinion. Sizzle, my pretty!_

 

Me, too. I've never used an abrasive on an iron tip.


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## mono

If enough crud builds up that flux can't cut through it, you want to abrasively remove it, BUT with the least abrasive method possible.

 Sandpaper is best avoided because tips are generally plated and you don't want to wear that plating off- some will even consider the life of a tip, gone when the plating is shot.

 On the other hand you might have some low-end iron and tip that wasn't plated good and are getting most of it's usable life after the plating is already shot (generic and radio shack irons for example) and so you'd end up perpetually re-sanding or filing the tip to the right shape again because the flux ate up the flat surface. This is a situation best avoided when you get a better iron.

 With a better iron (tip), forcefully wipe the tip against a wet paper towel. If you have a fancy copper mesh cleaner that'll work too, with the idea being to wipe against something harder than the residue but softer than the plating, so copper mesh is a lot better than something like steel wool.

 Wipe while the iron is hot, but if you must try to salvage a tip with sandpaper or a file, do it cold.


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## jl123

Weller sells a little abrasive stone that you can clean tips with. It's designed to not damage the tips plating. You should be able to just whipe that crude away on a damp sponge...


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## Spasticteapot

I've just taken my old Weller 25w (non-regulated) iron, and ground it down to a fine point. Works much better now. The trick, it seems, is before heating to grind it down not totally smooth, dip it in plumber's flux, and wrap it in silver-bearing solder. Presto - tinned iron.


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## luvdunhill

argh... I bought a new tip, and already after about 3 hours of work, it's developed the same problem. I haven't tried sanding it down, but no amount of elbow-greese will get that black-ish stuff off. The only thing I can think that I'm doing wrong is I have left an un-tinned tip in my solder iron holder for about 15 minutes or so with the station on and after this a tiny fleck of the black stuff appeared and then it seems to grow over time...I'm getting rather fustrated with this station!!! 

 Another point is that this is Weller's smallest screwdriver tip that I'm using... don't know if that matters.

 also, I filed off the black stuff on the last tip, and it ended up breaking (a millimeter or so off the tip... so I'm not sure a file is the best idea)...

 jl123: I'm looking for one of those black weller stones, but have no idea how to search for it


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## tangent

If you're just talking about a black ring between the part of the tip that accepts solder and the part that doesn't, this is harmless. Ignore it.


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## beerguy0

Please don't sand plated tips. This only serves to damage the plating, insuring that the tip will be completely useless. If you keep getting crud buildup, the best way to clean it without damaging the tip is a soft-bristled brass brush. Metcal and other manufacturers recommend this method for cleaning tips. You can also buy tip-cleaners, which work very well. The type I use is basically fine solder beads embedded in flux. 

 Wipe and tin the tip frequently during use. Always make sure the sponge is wet. A dry sponge will also damage the plating.


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## tomb

Ditto with what Beerguy says. Sanding the tips on one of these newer irons is exactly the wrong thing to do. Many of the best irons have an outstanding plating that prevents the oxidation that always happened with cheap irons. Hakko, IMHO, is particularly good at this. Their inexpensive DASH series of simple irons have tips that will not oxidixe. I think the only thing you could do to damage these things is to sand the tip! Same thing exists for the Hakko 936, perhaps the most popular soldering station in this community.

 Besides the classic damp sponge, the newer brass wool tip cleaners work very well. I actually prefer the cheaper kind rather than the name brands - they make some effort to have a heavy base, so that it stays put when you jab your iron into the wool.


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## elmer_dudd

have you tried glue yet?


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## JahJahBinks

always wet your sponge. I have seen PhD students brushing iron tip against hard dried sponge, sigh...


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## elmer_dudd

jahjah, so are you saying that soldering is a lot like sex? you gotta take off all your clothes and make sure you're doing it right, otherwise you're just dry humping?


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## nleahcim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tangent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me, too. I've never used an abrasive on an iron tip._

 

Ditto. I'm still using the original tip that came with my Hakko 936-12 four years ago, and it still works great. I use it constantly, too.


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## GarlicKnots

Hmm. I have the same problem with my Hakko Dash 454 Tip I.

 I dipped the tip in kester rosin paste flux. The flux mixture began to smoke so I figured it was working (2-3 seconds). I removed the tip and tried to wipe clean with my sponge. Didn't really work. The tip is still ghastly dark.

 Is there another kind of flux? Is there a different technique to use with the flux?

 I didn't mind having this tip MIA but I plan to do some smd work with the Alien DAC this weekend so it'd be nice to have it back.

 Thanks a lot. 

 f/R


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## GarlicKnots

Frustration. 

 I was dipping the tip in the rosin and applying solder and wiping. After about 2-3 hours of doing that I had gotten 2/3 to 3/4 of the tip to be shiny silver. 

 Then I did what I think was the same thing and looked at the tip after wiping, and it was basically black again. Not as deep a black as when I first started, but dark enough to throw me into depression.

 I think I'm going to ruin this tip's life by rubbing some 2000 grit sandpaper on this. 

 End Frustration. 

 Does anyone know where to buy hakko tips in NYC?


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## Sgtyapd

First of all you need to turn the temperature DOWN on your iron. 63/37 solder melts at 364F, so keeping your station close to 700 makes sense for maximum tip life. If your station cannot solder your application at this temperature you might want to consider a direct power system like the Metcal. 
 Next, cool the tip down and clean the tip with a soft brass brush, if you have flux charred onto the tip you could try some scotchbrite but start with the least aggressive you can find.
 Once it is clean, wrap the tip in rosin core solder.
 Power up the system and the flux will activate, and the solder will melt.
 This coats the tip and re-tins it.
 Now you can wipe the tip on your wet sponge and then retin it.
 Re-tin before allowing the tip to sit idle, and for storage.
 Turn off the station when you are not using it.
 Happy Holidays.


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## hYdrociTy

Oh yea what wattage do you guys use for these diy thingamajigs and cables? I got the 15 watt radio hack one for like 7 bucks.. It has the same problems as described by the op, and I guess a beefier iron/station would be better than just buying tips all the time? What If I just got a 25 watt rat shack iron?


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## Emon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *beerguy0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please don't sand plated tips. This only serves to damage the plating, insuring that the tip will be completely useless._

 

...what?? Removing the plating doesn't make the tip completely useless. I mean sure, if you have a plated tip, it's a good idea to preserve the plating...but don't go throwing it away if it gets removed. It's still completely usable. It's just less convenient since you have to clean it more often.


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## Siytek

Quote: 





sgtyapd said:


> First of all you need to turn the temperature DOWN on your iron. 63/37 solder melts at 364F, so keeping your station close to 700 makes sense for maximum tip life. If your station cannot solder your application at this temperature you might want to consider a direct power system like the Metcal.
> Next, cool the tip down and clean the tip with a soft brass brush, if you have flux charred onto the tip you could try some scotchbrite but start with the least aggressive you can find.
> Once it is clean, wrap the tip in rosin core solder.
> Power up the system and the flux will activate, and the solder will melt.
> ...


 


  Excellent advice, I was having trouble getting my iron tip to tin, failing multiple times. It seems to be that my Maplin solder was rubbish (99.3 Sn, 0.7 Cu). I went out and got some rosin core and followed Sgtyapd's advice and now I  have a perfectly tinned tip! 
   
  First I used some 600 grade abrasive paper to VERY GENTLY remove the worst of the black, with the soldering iron completely cold.
  Then I spent (about 5 - 10 mins) again carefully rubbing the tip on some wire wool, trying not to wear the tip, only remove the black.
  I then cleaned the tip with a lint-free cloth and surgical spirit to make sure it was absolutely surgically clean!
  I then wrapped the tip in rosin core solder and switched the iron on, ~350C, and waited for the solder to melt.
  Once the solder had melted, it tined the tip nicely, I then wiped on a damp sponge and re-tined with rosin core solder.
  Voila! Nicely tinned tip again


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## samsquanch

Brillo pad style tip cleaner, clean your tip between ever joint when making cables, every two or three joints when doing board work.  Dirty tips wont do you any good.
   
  Wet sponges are ok, but they will reduce the life span of your tip.  It's like throwing cold water on a hot engine block...


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## samsquanch

Oh, and never let your tip get dry, when you go to put it back in the holder, put a bit of solder on the tip.  Be sure to clean the tip when you pull it out of the holder to use it again though....


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## qusp

get a brass wool cleaner, hakko sells them with a holder, forget the sponge, imo it realy is quite useless compared to the brass wool. if you jab the tip into the wool every 1-2 joints it keeps it really clean. use only as  much heat as is required and no more, always tin the tip before turning the iron off. never sand the tip unless you p[lan on getting a new one soon and you have totally screwed it up. i too am still using the same tips that came with the hakko 936, i have plenty more as well, but these things are near indestructible, with good quality solder, cardas flux and the brass wool cleaner there really should never be a time you have to use an abrasive.


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## samsquanch

qusp, have you used any weller stations in the past?  I'm currently using a wsd-161 (dual channel digital temperature control), and so far I've lost one channel and burned out the heater/sensor module on one wand.  I'm thinking about getting a new station, and was wondering how hakko compares (looking at the FM-203 if you know anything about that particular model).


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## qusp

Hey, nah i've never really used any of the weller stations enough to have an opinion i'm afraid, i've only used friends. whats you budget? because next iron i buy will be a metcal (well probably i will get it soon and keep the hakko as a second unit) very fast and responsive irons due to the direct heating. i was actually hesitant about the automatic sensor/temp control, but it actually works really well.


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## samsquanch

my budget is around $500~600, my job is going to buy it since my weller is on the fritz.  I looked on metcal's site, and didn't see anything with temperature control (could have missed it), which is something I really need for the range of things I have to solder...


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## nullstring

Not sure I understand the allure of those stations.
   
  I use a Hakko 936 clone without any issue.
   
  If I wanted dual, I would just buy two of them.


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## samsquanch

you can have two irons with different tips/temperatures going at the same time, and having the dual station saves desk space.  Overkill?  Probably.


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## nullstring

duck tape one on top of the other? lol, /me shrugs


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## qusp

the metcals sense the heat needed and automatically put out that much heat; thus no temp control. whack hey? from all reports they do it and do it very well indeed, i'm saving for one. they also do not use an element, but rather heat the tip directly


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## normalife

try to polish it i guess?


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## Dreamslacker

Ok..  This is not the best suggestion you will find but it should work to cut through the crud if you take lots of precautions.
   
  Ammonia.
   
  Heat up the iron and dip in a small little container of ammonia.  You must do this in a very well ventilated environment.  I recommend using a fan to blow the fumes away from you.
   
  Immediately after this, tin the tip with flux bearing solder.
   
  Basically, you can buy tip refreshers to do this all in one step.  The active ingredient in tip refreshers is ammonia and it works very well.  Tip refreshers also have tin and solder to re-tin the tip immediately.


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## SuperTech-IT

Sandpapering is a last resort to get the oxidization off.
  Flux will help the tinning process when the tip is clean.
   
  LOWER heat is better. Here's why.
  Higher temperatures are what cause the rapid oxidization in the first place.
  It can be as simple as going one setting down.
   
  I have a variable temperature iron, and I run it pretty hot - 300 degrees Celsius.
  BUT - if I run it at 350, it oxidizes like crazy, and it gets hard to tin, and heat transfer suffers.
   
  A tinned iron at 300 will melt solder faster than an oxidized one at 350.
   
  So find the lowest temperature your iron performs well at, and use that.
   
  Also, don't leave the iron on and sitting untinned for extended periods of time.


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## duncan1

SuperTech-IT- A more practical " down to earth" answer I have  not heard and  its your first post!  Since my Weller packed up 8 years ago I have been using a digital display/temp controlled soldering station from Vann Draper . In all the years I have had it I have only needed to change the bit. A bit dearer than  some of the clones but I looked at them cheaper meant lower tech components and build.


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## SuperTech-IT

Thanks Duncan.
  As an addendum, I would like to add that under normal PCB soldering (not heavy wires) I actually run my iron at 250 to 275.
  I put it up to 300 for heavy work with thicker tips.
  I have an 852D which is inexpensive. Many companies put their name on it but the model number usually remains constant.
  I haven't had to change the hot air or the wand elements yet either, even though it came with spares.
  The tips of course should be replaced as soon as you notice that the plating has worn off, although they will continue to work after.
  I was searching for something else completely on the web when I came across this post, and thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth.
   
  I do a lot of soldering, and my latest little project had probably about 1500 solder joints in it.
  Having a tip that won't tin would be a huge problem.
  You're probably wondering what would have so many solder joints, so here's a quick clip of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxUShTWB9UQ
   
  If anyone has any other questions for me, please feel free to ask.
   
  Always remember that a tinned tip transfers heat much faster than a hotter untinned tip.
  It's the same principle as putting heat sink grease on a heat sink. The solder acts as a thermal transfer conduit.


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## zappenfusen

I'm also in the zone between the zone between the zone. It's how I found Head-Fi. A lifetime of attempts, very little success. A career soldering 1/0 wire, a complete failure at 24 AWG. You guys make it sound Homer Simpson easy and I'd take a bullet if the solder would stick. Thanks for all the solutions.

Zappenfusen


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## SuperTech-IT

First thing to try is liquid solder flux on the wire, or a solder paste.
 If it's a solid wire, you can take black sandpaper to the wire first as well.
 If the wire is aluminum, I may not have a solution for you other than to change wire.
 Also, use a soldering iron, and not the torch you use for one aught ! LOL!


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## zappenfusen

Super Tech It I see you've soldered 1/0. Thanks for the help.


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## SuperTech-IT

Back in the 80's I had a summer job during summer vacation with an electrical company and we handled up to three aught for 3 phase transformers.
 Nothing like the smell of Yellow 77 in the morning! (electricians will get that).
 Didn't have much need to solder it though, although I know people these days use one aught for car audio power and need to solder on the ring couplers or terminals.


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## zappenfusen

400 amp emergency generator sets have big plugs also and Mapp gas torches compare not to a Weller from the Depot. I believe I contaminated my tip melting the wire insulation by mistake. I was unaware of the intricacies of electronic soldering. This forum has been hugely helpful while reassuring that I'm not alone in my difficulties.

Zapp


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## SuperTech-IT

I use Kynar wire for many projects, which is not easy to strip without damaging the wire itself because it's so thin.
 My solution is to lay the tip of the wire on a piece of cardboard, put the tip at the point where I want it stripped, and pull the wire.
 This strips the wire perfectly but of course puts plastic on the tip.
 This easily cleans off with the damp sponge that comes with just about any soldering station, but if you don't have one, GET one.
 Or, get 10 (about $1.29 on ebay - http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Cleaning-Sponge-for-936-12-Solder-Station-5-3-5-0-6-10-pcs-pack-Skin-color-/221407109276?hash=item338ce4609c )
 After a number of joints soldered, it's always a good idea to drag the tip across one of these sponges (dampened of course - best to have them in a container about the size of the sponge) and re-tin the tip.
 This keeps the tip clean and free of contaminants and allows for easy tinning.
  
 If your tip is too contaminated to be cleaned by the sponge initially, I suggest scraping it with the edge of a piece of cardboard.
 Do not wet the cardboard. You basically want to scrape off the contaminants without damaging the plating (most solder tips are copper core with a thin plating of iron or another metal). Dipping the hot tip into solder flux can aid in this cleaning process initially, and will aid in tinning the tip once cleaned.
  
 Alternately, you can simply get another $2 tip for your iron on ebay, and just take better care of it.
 If you know you have contaminated the tip with wire insulation, a quick swipe on the damp sponge should instantly remove the contaminants, and your tip will enjoy a long and healthy life.
 Always immediately re-tin the tip after wiping on the sponge.


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## zappenfusen

Success! Was forced to use 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper before ordering new tips. The sandpaper doesn't appear to have damaged the tip as plating is now shiny bright, it tins beautifully, and I have finally completed the project. The help I've received from everyone is greatly appreciated.

Zappenfusen


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## SuperTech-IT

Great.
 If you ever want to get a whole lot of soldering practice all in one project, go to www.TheLEDCube.com
 click the BUILD IT link at  the top to go to the assembly instructions.
 Either of the projects will have you a master solderer in no time.
  
 Don't forget to keep your tip wiped and tinned ! (and avoid sandpaper if you can, it's a last resort)


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