# Isone Pro - the best thing you could ever get for your headphones on your computer



## Lunatique

EDIT: Isone Pro has been upgraded to TB Isone, and the new link is here: http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/
  
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 I just want to share my latest discovery with my fellow head-fiers.

 I have always disliked the "in your head" sound of headphones when compared to speakers, and while I have tried some of the crossfeed DSP processing plugins (both free and commercial ones), none have ever actually impressed me. That is, until I tried Isone Pro. I was completely blown away by how it was able to make my headphones sound just like speakers--the effect was so realistic that I thought I had left my K+H O300D's on, and it was 1 am in the morning, so I was afraid I'd have woken up the neighbors. That is how convincing it was. It even does surround sound! I have tried Redline Monitor, hdphx, the headphone crossfeed feature that comes with J River Media Center 14, and some of the ones for Winamp--none of them have ever sounded as realistic as Isone Pro--not even close. Best $27 I've ever spent for my headphones.

 I highly recommend that you download the demo version and see for yourself how amazing it is:
http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/
  
 (TB Isone can be made to sound identical to Isone Pro, so there's no need to try and find Isone Pro anymore--just use TB Isone.)

 Here's a discussion thread comparing it to Redline Monitor:
KVR: Redline Monitor or Isone Pro?
  
 (EDIT: There's now another HRTF product called Ircam HEar: http://www.fluxhome.com/products/plug_ins/ircam_hear
  
 Its realism is comparable to Isone I think, but it doesn't have all those controls and presets that emulate different environments and speakers, and it costs more as well. You can download the trial version and see how you like it. I see no reason to get it over Isone since it has less features and costs more. Maybe the people that don't want to fiddle with the controls of Isone might like how simple HEar is.)


 For those of you who don't have a media librarian/player that can use VST plugins, I highly recommend you try J River Media Center. It has VST hosting, and not just one, but a full chain of as many as your computer can handle. That means you can host very high-end professional spectrum analyzers, EQ's, Mastering compressors, and whatever else you want.

 Winamp now also has a plug-in that can host VST's. Media Monkey with some customizing can also do it, since MM is compatible with Winamp. Supposedly you can host more than one VST in MM if you do some tweaking. Personally, J River Media Center 14 is just less of a headache IMO. It kicks the crap out of all the media librarians/players I've ever tried, and I think I pretty much tried them all in the last several years--from foobar to whatever flavor of the month.


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## GungaDin

I've been fooling around with the demo for the last half hour. I really like it and will probably buy it. It's a very professional sounding piece of software. Thanks for the tip!


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## Lunatique

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GungaDin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been fooling around with the demo for the last half hour. I really like it and will probably buy it. It's a very professional sounding piece of software. Thanks for the tip!_

 

It's kind of addictive, isn't it? Once you have tired it, you don't ever want to listen on headphones without it ever again.

 While the headphone crossfeed feature that comes with J River Media Center is pretty good (especially on pronounced setting)--actually quite similar to the results you get from Redline Monitor, which costs much more than Isone Pro, neither can actually create the convincing sound of speakers actually in front of you.


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## gurubhai

ya, great piece of software, I especially like the surround down-mix vst. Movies never sounded better on headphones.


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## Deep Funk

I use Mediamonkey without Winamp, could I still use Isone Pro and is it possible to order or get the disc in/via a store/website?

 If J River Media Center 14 is the only stand alone software to support Isone Pro I might consider it, the free version if it works with Isone Pro...


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## Lunatique

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Deep Funk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use Mediamonkey without Winamp, could I still use Isone Pro and is it possible to order or get the disc in/via a store/website?

 If J River Media Center 14 is the only stand alone software to support Isone Pro I might consider it, the free version if it works with Isone Pro..._

 

You'll have to find out how Media Monkey handles VST hosting on its own, or it has to rely on Winamp's implementation of third-party plugin for VST hosting.

 When you purchase Isone Pro, you get a download link to the non-demo version. That's it. What you do with it is up to you. 

 The free version of Media Center is called Media Jukebox, and it does not have VST hosting capabilities (nor deal with videos or images or a bunch of other advanced features that Media Center has). With that said though, Media Jukebox is amazing for something that is free (so is Media Monkey). If it wasn't for VST hosting, I'd have just kept on using Media Jukebox like I already have been for years.

 You can also try this setup:

 1) Download any free vst host that can host more than one plugin at a time.

 2) Download mp3play2, which is a free vst mp3/wav player.

 3) Download Isone Pro.

 4) Have mp3play2 loaded first, then load Isone Pro in a later slot.

 5) Enjoy.


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## GungaDin

I've been using it in Foobar using the George Yohng VST wrapper. You just put the Isone dll in your VST folder.


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## Lazerboy2000

wow, I am impressed with the J River Media Center. Bit pricey for my broke college student self but I'm tempted. 

 Do the plugins automatically work once you install them or do you have to enable them or something?


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## Lunatique

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lazerboy2000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow, I am impressed with the J River Media Center. Bit pricey for my broke college student self but I'm tempted. 

 Do the plugins automatically work once you install them or do you have to enable them or something?_

 


 In the DSP Studio window, there's a button where you can navigate to your default VST folder and then add any VST's .dll. Once added, they show up on a list, where you can check a check box to activate them (or uncheck to bypass/deactivate them). You can also drag them up or down to change the signal chain. For example, if I want an EQ to be placed after a spectrum analyzer so I can see the original frequency response of a song instead of post-EQ'ing, I simply drag the EQ below the spectrum analyzer on the lsit.


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## Oya?

Just wanted to bump this thread as I'm thinking of buying this. I just started playing around with the demo but haven't really read through the manual or started tweaking things. Do you have any favorite presets?


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## Lunatique

I don't touch the controls on the left hand side at all. On the right, the only change I made was to set the distance to 2 meters, which matches my studio monitors distance to my listening position. I never bother with the cabinet emulation presets and keep it on flat. The only time I'd use other presets is to check to see how my mix would sound on a laptop or some boombox or through TV speakers...etc.


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## Erik Garci

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lunatique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't touch the controls on the left hand side at all._

 

When I adjust the HRTF controls on the left, it makes a very noticeable improvement in localization and clarity. It is easier to adjust them if you select "L only" or "R only" as the Channel Mode.


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## Omega17TheTrue

I just tested this plug-in and it is indeed amazing i listen one song and when activated isone pro the song was no longer coming from the side but from the front like a speaker also when listening someone speaking it no longer sound like your are speaking to yourself.

 But to adjust settings on things like this ... there is so many possibility, also the buttons are a pity to control.


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## Lunatique

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Erik Garci* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I adjust the HRTF controls on the left, it makes a very noticeable improvement in localization and clarity. It is easier to adjust them if you select "L only" or "R only" as the Channel Mode._

 

I think my head/ear preference as pretty the same as the default settings, that's why after playing around with it the first time, I realize I don't really need to mess with it. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Omega17TheTrue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But to adjust settings on things like this ... there is so many possibility, also the buttons are a pity to control._

 

I think once you decide on an optimal setting, there's no need to mess with the controls anymore. For me, 2 meters away is just right, and the room size as medium is just fine too. Cabinet emulation flat is best if you don't want any unwanted coloration. The HRTF is already pretty good in the default setting, so I don't mess with it.


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## .Sup

anyone got it to work in winamp?


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## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lunatique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't touch the controls on the left hand side at all. On the right, the only change I made was to set the distance to 2 meters, which matches my studio monitors distance to my listening position. I never bother with the cabinet emulation presets and keep it on flat. The only time I'd use other presets is to check to see how my mix would sound on a laptop or some boombox or through TV speakers...etc._

 

Thanks, I'm using the close-field 0.4s preset and it sounds great although I don't know how close to speaker-like it is, I've never worked with proper monitors. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 What headphones are you using with this? Wondering if it makes a difference closed vs open etc wrt to the settings. I'm listening on a ESP950.


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## Lunatique

Oya? - The cabinet simulations are really there for you to check how your mix would sound on various audio setups, and unless you are a musician/composer/audio engineer that needs to check how your mix would sound on various setups, there's no reason to use any of the presets. Just leave it on flat/neutral, otherwise you'd be coloring your sound unnecessarily. 

 I all my headphones with it. It doesn't matter what headphone you use as there's no "synergy" ******** involved. The better the headphone, the better things will sound--totally logical and uncomplicated.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *.Sup* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone got it to work in winamp?_

 

Yeah, it's easy. Just install the VST Host plug-in for Winamp, and then run Isone Pro from the VST Host. You can run any VST plugin with it, but only one at a time (whereas with J River Media Center 14, you can run as many as you want, in any order you want).


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## Justin Uthadude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *.Sup* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone got it to work in winamp?_

 

Works with the VST_Winamp_Bridge
 .


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## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lunatique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oya? - The cabinet simulations are really there for you to check how your mix would sound on various audio setups, and unless you are a musician/composer/audio engineer that needs to check how your mix would sound on various setups, there's no reason to use any of the presets. Just leave it on flat/neutral, otherwise you'd be coloring your sound unnecessarily. 

 I all my headphones with it. It doesn't matter what headphone you use as there's no "synergy" ******** involved. The better the headphone, the better things will sound--totally logical and uncomplicated._

 

Alright, sweet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I went ahead and bought it, I'm also playing around with the surround VST for games and movies, I think the surround sounds quite good too. I use VLC and the built-in (Dolby?) surround headphone setting isn't very good.


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## .Sup

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Justin Uthadude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Works with the VST_Winamp_Bridge
 ._

 

yeah that's exactly what I used, I then loaded the plugin with it and it seems to load but isone doesn't open.


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## bcwang

sweet, this is the first crossfeed type thing that actually has any real effect on me. Though tuning it seems like it's going to take a while, a lot of adjustments are available.


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## Lunatique

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, sweet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I went ahead and bought it, I'm also playing around with the surround VST for games and movies, I think the surround sounds quite good too. I use VLC and the built-in (Dolby?) surround headphone setting isn't very good._

 

I didn't know VLC has built-in surround headphone? I've been using VLC for years and I have never seen that option? I've tried the surround headphone on PowerDVD and WinDVD, and I thought they just OK. I haven't actually tried Isone Pro's surround with movies yet, since I usually use JVC SU-DH1 for that (and gaming).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *.Sup* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah that's exactly what I used, I then loaded the plugin with it and it seems to load but isone doesn't open._

 

Try using VST Host plugin for Winamp instead.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bcwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sweet, this is the first crossfeed type thing that actually has any real effect on me. Though tuning it seems like it's going to take a while, a lot of adjustments are available._

 

I wonder how many people just leave it on its default setting and is perfectly happy with it? The only reason I had made one tiny change (distance to 2 meters) is because my studio monitors are 2 meters away from me, and I wanted to match that. Otherwise, I wouldn't make any changes. If find the default setting to be a very good common ground that would probably work very well for majority of people. I have tried tweaking all the settings, and I really didn't come upon any combination that sounded better than the default setting.


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## Ro-amp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lunatique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's kind of addictive, isn't it? Once you have tired it, you don't ever want to listen on headphones without it ever again.

 While the headphone crossfeed feature that comes with J River Media Center is pretty good (especially on pronounced setting)--actually quite similar to the results you get from Redline Monitor, which costs much more than Isone Pro, neither can actually create the convincing sound of speakers actually in front of you._

 

I'm really happy with this combo (MC14 + Isone Pro) 
 What sold me is when I played John Coltrane (the very best of) the recordings are L (sax & piano) R (drum & double bass) with very little stereo mix in the middle, without Isone Pro you basically hear the sax hard pan left & the drum hard pan right with a giant void in the middle very hard to listen to, me couldn't stand it...
 Turn Isone pro on and everything comes together...give it a try.
 JB recommends studio monitor headphone for best result (less coloration) I'm Shure glad I got the SHR840's
 Enjoy!


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## duckymcse

Tried ISONE Pro demo with Wimap, Foobar2000 and J River Media Center. I'm really impress with the sound quality it generate. J River Media Center seem to sound the best with it. With J River Media Center, I can't save the setting for ISONE Pro. Every time I close and reopen J River Media Center, the ISONE PRO setting got reset back to default. Anyone have this problem or have solution to it?


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## Lunatique

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *duckymcse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_T Every time I close and reopen J River Media Center, the ISONE PRO setting got reset back to default. Anyone have this problem or have solution to it?_

 

Use the preset saving on the Media Center DSP Studio GUI, not the one on Isone Pro (or was it the other way around?). Anyway, it worked for me (whichever one it was).


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## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lunatique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't know VLC has built-in surround headphone? I've been using VLC for years and I have never seen that option? I've tried the surround headphone on PowerDVD and WinDVD, and I thought they just OK. I haven't actually tried Isone Pro's surround with movies yet, since I usually use JVC SU-DH1 for that (and gaming)._

 

On the version I'm using (1.0.5) it's a tick box under Effects in the Audio settings. But besides on/off there's no other options to play around with.

  Quote:


 I wonder how many people just leave it on its default setting and is perfectly happy with it? The only reason I had made one tiny change (distance to 2 meters) is because my studio monitors are 2 meters away from me, and I wanted to match that. Otherwise, I wouldn't make any changes. If find the default setting to be a very good common ground that would probably work very well for majority of people. I have tried tweaking all the settings, and I really didn't come upon any combination that sounded better than the default setting. 
 

I gave a shot at going through the settings like suggested in the pdf manual and I got this:


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## Justin Uthadude

Is this ver 2.0 or 1.0.1?
 .


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## Lunatique

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I gave a shot at going through the settings like suggested in the pdf manual and I got this:[/IMG]_

 

I tried your setting, and it sounds a bit closer in distance, and the sound a slightly more full-bodied. I might try tweaking again and see what I come up with.


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## froasier

I just tried out the demo in Ableton, using a dry vocal track as suggested in the manual to configure it, and it seems like *it just doesn't work on me*. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I tried other headphones, figuring S-Logic might be messing it up. I tried other test material. I tried many combinations of settings. No matter what I do, it still sounds like the sound is in my head, not where my speakers are.

 Thoughts?


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## Lunatique

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *froasier* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just tried out the demo in Ableton, using a dry vocal track as suggested in the manual to configure it, and it seems like *it just doesn't work on me*. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I tried other headphones, figuring S-Logic might be messing it up. I tried other test material. I tried many combinations of settings. No matter what I do, it still sounds like the sound is in my head, not where my speakers are.

 Thoughts?_

 

Can you render a before and after mp3 so we can hear what you're hearing? 

 For most people, even the default setting should sound very good--far better than any software crossfeed out there. It should sound drastically different from the typical exaggerated stereo separation of headphones, and much more like the sound is in front of you.


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## froasier

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lunatique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you render a before and after mp3 so we can hear what you're hearing? 

 For most people, even the default setting should sound very good--far better than any software crossfeed out there. It should sound drastically different from the typical exaggerated stereo separation of headphones, and much more like the sound is in front of you._

 

It did sound more natural in terms of stereo separation, but I didn't get the effect that the sound was in front of me. As for mp3s, I don't really want to give out pieces of my upcoming release 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but feel free to suggest (or post) another sample for me to use. I can probably find another vocal track, or pull from my music library or (drum) sample packs.


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## Lunatique

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *froasier* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...but feel free to suggest (or post) another sample for me to use. I can probably find another vocal track, or pull from my music library or (drum) sample packs._

 

Are you listening to tracks that are pretty much almost mono anyway? If you listen to tracks with lots of stereo information, you'll hear just how drastic the effect is. For example, this track has a lot of stereo delay, and the effect of Isone Pro will be very obvious:
http://www.waldorfmusic.de/assets/fi...emos/qwerk.mp3


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## froasier

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lunatique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you listening to tracks that are pretty much almost mono anyway? If you listen to tracks with lots of stereo information, you'll hear just how drastic the effect is. For example, this track has a lot of stereo delay, and the effect of Isone Pro will be very obvious:
http://www.waldorfmusic.de/assets/fi...emos/qwerk.mp3_

 

I started with mono tracks, but also tried the full mix, which has plenty of stereo information. This file gives me similar results. The main difference I notice when toggling the bypass switch is a more natural stereo presentation, and in this file the snare sounds more distant with Isone on (still not really in front of me). It also reminds me of the music from Perfect Dark


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## fiver

I use the cross-feed functions on both of my Headroom amps and have normally preferred it. 

 I'm testing out a uDAC today and decided to try out some software crossfeeds which led me to this thread. At first I was not fond of this plugin. It seemed to me that all it was doing was making things sound muddy. After I went through the suggestions in the PDF manual and tweaked it out I really became a fan. I spent a good part of the afternoon doing A/B tests and really think it is fantastic.


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## ironmine

I tried Isone Pro and cannot understand, guys, what you are so excited about. I hear no improvement, only the degradation of the sound. I prefer the combination "Channel Mixer + Dolby Headphone".


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## Lunatique

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried Isone Pro and cannot understand, guys, what you are so excited about. I hear no improvement, only the degradation of the sound. I prefer the combination "Channel Mixer + Dolby Headphone"._

 

How is there degradation? Any time you simulate a virtual environment you have to consider that any reasonable listening environment will change the frequency content. The virtual spaces are already designed so that they don't contain the undesirable artifacts of real life room modes, and would in fact sound better than your acoustically untreated living room or bed room. If you were to put sound in a virtual space without any change to its frequency content, then that space would sound "wrong." For example, some reverb devices have a dampen feature, which is to accurately simulate the gradual diffusion of the 3KHz~6KHz range as the virtual room's size gets bigger and bigger. All of this is supposed to make everything sound more realistic and natural. It's not "degradation" of anything. 

 Isone Pro is a professional audio plugin that has extensive controls and also playback device emulation so there's no need to burn a CD and then check the mix it on various consumer devices for optimal translation. It also has extensive controls for the various parameters that Dolby Headphone does not have. Simple crossfeed or channel mixers do not have sophisticated HTRF parameters or proper room size, room reverb, and speaker distance controls.


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## ironmine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lunatique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How is there degradation? Any time you simulate a virtual environment you have to consider that any reasonable listening environment will change the frequency content. The virtual spaces are already designed so that they don't contain the undesirable artifacts of real life room modes, and would in fact sound better than your acoustically untreated living room or bed room. If you were to put sound in a virtual space without any change to its frequency content, then that space would sound "wrong." For example, some reverb devices have a dampen feature, which is to accurately simulate the gradual diffusion of the 3KHz~6KHz range as the virtual room's size gets bigger and bigger. All of this is supposed to make everything sound more realistic and natural. It's not "degradation" of anything. 

 Isone Pro is a professional audio plugin that has extensive controls and also playback device emulation so there's no need to burn a CD and then check the mix it on various consumer devices for optimal translation. It also has extensive controls for the various parameters that Dolby Headphone does not have. Simple crossfeed or channel mixers do not have sophisticated HTRF parameters or proper room size, room reverb, and speaker distance controls._

 

I don't care how extensive Isone Pro's controls are or how sophisticated its HTRF parameters are. I like the sound that CM+DH gives to me. 

 Degradation, in this case, means the loss of transparency and details.

 My room is acoustically treated to a certain degree and it sounds a lot better than any headphones with or without any plugins. There's no comparison even.


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## Lunatique

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My room is acoustically treated to a certain degree and it sounds a lot better than any headphones with or without any plugins. There's no comparison even._

 

Well, the whole point of a plugin like Isone Pro is for those who sometimes have to do audio production (or watch movies/play games/listen to music) late into the night without disturbing neighbors/family/roomates. It's not a replacement for a well-treated room with high-end studio reference monitors. Unless it's late at night, I will always pick my Klein + Hummel O 300D's in my acoustically treated studio over any headphone or virtual space simulation. I use the JVC SU-DH1 for gaming and I think it's sounds pretty good for a small hardware device. But it cost a lot more than Isone Pro and I don't think it sounds better.


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## froasier

I think my HRTF is just not accommodated by Isone's settings.


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## ironmine

When I plan 5.1 audio material through Isone Pro Surround, I choose stereo mixdown, but the sound still comes out in 5.1 format (I can see it in Foobar), not in 2.0 as it should be. What's wrong?


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## wgb113

Can anyone recommend something similar for Mac users?

 Bill


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## ironmine

I found good settings:

 jb_isone_pro (or surround if you like it better)
 HRTF adjustment cue strength - 0 - 10% 
 ITDs - ON, I use 50% for the head size and 50% for the ear size
 Distance - 1 m (minimum)
 Room - OFF


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## Lunatique

The developer's been getting lots of requests for a Mac version at kvraudio, but I don't know if he'll do it.


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## Mad Max




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## ironmine

I found out that Senn HD650 does not need Isone Pro as much as Denon D2000. Maybe because D2000 has closed cups and HD650 vice versa is open-type headphones. I wanted to demonstrate to my friend the Isone Pro plugin but it only degraded the sound of his HD650. While the same settings (see my message above) work quite well with my Denon.


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## Lunatique

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found out that Senn HD650 does not need Isone Pro as much as Denon D2000. Maybe because D2000 has closed cups and HD650 vice versa is open-type headphones. I wanted to demonstrate to my friend the Isone Pro plugin but it only degraded the sound of his HD650. While the same settings (see my message above) work quite well with my Denon._

 

You can always disengage the Room and ITDs and set the distance to very close (1 meter or closer), which will bypass the more complex simulation but still remain very effective. 

 I've used it with all my headphones and I don't find that it works better or worse--it simply just works, and sounds great on all of them. I'll see if I can get Jeroen himself here to answer some questions regarding his creation.


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## ironmine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lunatique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can always disengage the Room and ITDs and set the distance to very close (1 meter or closer), which will bypass the more complex simulation but still remain very effective._

 

If you read my message above, I already switched off the Room simulation and set ITDs to 0-10% and the distance to 1 m. By the way, 1 m is the minimum, there is no "closer".

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lunatique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've used it with all my headphones and I don't find that it works better or worse--it simply just works, and sounds great on all of them. I'll see if I can get Jeroen himself here to answer some questions regarding his creation._

 

My main question is: can the Isone Pro plugin function as the Dolby Headphone plugin, i.e., to accept 5.1 channels and output 2.0 sound with a surround effect?


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## Currawong

If you have a Mac, there's a thread on Canz3D which does the same thing. Just thought I'd throw this in here.


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## JeroenB

I just got the link to this topic from Lunatique, with a request to
 answer some of the questions that are being posted here... So here we go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Winamp: The winamp VST bridge should work flawlessly, both
 for stereo as well as 6-channel (5.1) material. You can find the
 bridge here: VST Winamp Bridge - Winamp
 or on Christian Budde's page Christian’s Blog
 For Surround material, the content should have 6 channels that
 are ordered as follows: Lfront, Rfront, Center, LFE, Lsurround,
 Rsurround.


 Type of headphones: this should not matter too much from a 
 localization accuracy point of view. Research so far as shown
 that if the frequency response is reasonably flat, one would not
 expect any degradation in localization accuracy. It may differ
 in preferences though, so just go what sounds good to you.

 Settings: the default settings should work with most people, and
 are a good starting point for tweaking. They represent the 'most
 common ears' from a large database that was used to develop
 the HRTF models. The HRTF knobs allow to tweak the most
 common differences between people's ears. However, because of
 this limited model with just a few knobs, it may in some cases
 happen that it is difficult to match your own ears with any setting.
 We estimated that this can occur for a few percent of the listeners.
 It is important though to listen through the plugin for a somewhat
 prolonged time. It may get several minutes to get used to the
 virtual acoustics. It also works best if you sit in a room that has
 physical speakers.


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## ironmine

Hello Jeroen!

 Thanks for answering our questions!

 Could you please tell more specifically how to make Isone Pro mixdown 5.1 material to 2.0 pseudo-surround sound (as Dolby Headphone does)? Do I need to use jb_isone_pro or jb_isone_pro_surround plugin? Which channel mode I should select in the channel mode drop-down menu?

 What is the maximum bit-depth and sampling frequency that Isone Pro can accept?


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## Ro-amp

Hello Jeroen,
 Just want to say thank you for such a great product, currently using it with my HD650's and finally can listen to headphones...again...
 Awesome!
 Cheers


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## JeroenB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you please tell more specifically how to make Isone Pro mixdown 5.1 material to 2.0 pseudo-surround sound (as Dolby Headphone does)? Do I need to use jb_isone_pro or jb_isone_pro_surround plugin? Which channel mode I should select in the channel mode drop-down menu?

 What is the maximum bit-depth and sampling frequency that Isone Pro can accept?_

 

The surround version (jb_isone_pro_surround.dll) can handle 5.1
 input and create a surround sound percept using headphones
 (stereo out). The default setting should work OK; you may ofcourse
 tweak it using all controls.

 The channel mode drop-down menu identifies down-mix options
 before the speaker simultion is applied. The default setting (5.1 surround)
 is the one to use so simulate the full 5.1 speaker setup. 

 Isone Pro supports all bit depths that are supported by your
 host program (anything between 8 and 64 bits should work).
 Sample rate should be below 384 kHz (so no worries here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## fenixdown110

This is yet another thread worth stickying. I still haven't tried it yet, but will it beat the 5.1 foobar configuration?
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/5-...-files-447089/


----------



## fenixdown110

I compared it to the 5.1 foobar setup and this still can't stand up to it. To each their own. The foobar setup is 100% free too.


----------



## ironmine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JeroenB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The surround version (jb_isone_pro_surround.dll) can handle 5.1
 input and create a surround sound percept using headphones
 (stereo out). The default setting should work OK; you may ofcourse
 tweak it using all controls.

 The channel mode drop-down menu identifies down-mix options
 before the speaker simultion is applied. The default setting (5.1 surround)
 is the one to use so simulate the full 5.1 speaker setup. 

 Isone Pro supports all bit depths that are supported by your
 host program (anything between 8 and 64 bits should work).
 Sample rate should be below 384 kHz (so no worries here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 

Thanks for clarification. 

 By the way, it would be great if there were a way to adjust the loudness of all channels separately.


----------



## ironmine

I am sorry, Jeroen, but something is wrong with your suggested settings. I tried Ambra - 2003 "Child Of The Universe" (DTS 5.1), track # 11 - Introducing Salvador Dali.flac. In the middle of this track, Dali walks around the listener while speaking. When I listen to this track using the Dolby Headphone plugin, I can hear him walking behind my back speaking all the time. But when I listen to it using your setup all sounds disappear when he walks behind my back. It means the rear channels are muted in the mixdown.


----------



## JeroenB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am sorry, Jeroen, but something is wrong with your suggested settings. I tried Ambra - 2003 "Child Of The Universe" (DTS 5.1), track # 11 - Introducing Salvador Dali.flac. In the middle of this track, Dali walks around the listener while speaking. When I listen to this track using the Dolby Headphone plugin, I can hear him walking behind my back speaking all the time. But when I listen to it using your setup all sounds disappear when he walks behind my back. It means the rear channels are muted in the mixdown._

 

That is strange. What happens if you set the channel mode
 to 'ITU downmix'? If everything works fine, you should hear
 the surround signals coming from the virtual front speakers
 with that setting.

 Another option could be that the content is not 5.1, but some
 other channel format...


----------



## ironmine

Jeroen,

 1. I use the Surround version of Isone.
 2. The input signal is indeed in 6-channel (5.1) format (I checked the properties of the file by right clicking on it in Foobar).
 3. The channel setting is indeed '5.1 surround'.
 4. The plugin is active.

 I use Foobar2000 and George Yohng's VST Wrapper. May be this wrapper is a problem?


----------



## ironmine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JeroenB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ What happens if you set the channel mode
 to 'ITU downmix'? If everything works fine, you should hear
 the surround signals coming from the virtual front speakers
 with that setting._

 

No, ITU downmix has got the same problem - no rear channels are present in the downmix.


----------



## thuantran

The foobar wrapper does not support higher than 2 channel audio AFAIK.


----------



## ironmine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thuantran* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The foobar wrapper does not support higher than 2 channel audio AFAIK._

 

That's what I suspected. Is there any replacement for this wrapper for Foobar? The VST bridge plugin does not work, either (with version 1.0 of Foobar).

 So, its seems that currently the most popular and audiophile player does not have any tool now to harness the power of VST plugins...


----------



## thuantran

No, I don't think so, unfortunately. Besides after getting my HD595 to upgrade from the PortaPro, I don't think this plugin is necessary anymore.


----------



## ironmine

I think open type headphones have a natural crossfeed effect, because the sound from the left cup leaks to the right ear and vice versa. 

 But the ability to down mix 5.1 to 2.0 surround is still important, because there lots of 5.1 albums around and it would be great to be able to listen to them with headphones...

 Does anybody know any software players supporting VST plugins natively? I tried Media Center 14 but it is very unstable and hangs up often.


----------



## thuantran

The only one I know of ATM is uLilith player, but I don't know if it supports multichannel AC3 and DTS audio format, it does support FLAC and multichannel FLAC IIRC.


----------



## falis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think open type headphones have a natural crossfeed effect, because the sound from the left cup leaks to the right ear and vice versa. 

 But the ability to down mix 5.1 to 2.0 surround is still important, because there lots of 5.1 albums around and it would be great to be able to listen to them with headphones...

 Does anybody know any software players supporting VST plugins natively? I tried Media Center 14 but it is very unstable and hangs up often._

 

cplay does, but only one at a time. Not a big limitation in my opinion.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think open type headphones have a natural crossfeed effect, because the sound from the left cup leaks to the right ear and vice versa. _

 

I don't think any sound leaked from open-back headphones would be loud enough in volume to actually create any kind of natural crossfeed, and even if it was loud enough, the leaked sound would be missing a large chunk of frequency information anyway and the crossfeed would be quite skewed.


----------



## ade1982

Is there any way to make this work with iTunes?


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ade1982* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any way to make this work with iTunes?_

 

No.


----------



## BoseFan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ade1982* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any way to make this work with iTunes?_

 

There is, but it's a little complicated.


----------



## CastanonY

Wow, this really works. My friends and I love watching movies together and a good sound quality is a must. Also, my laptop have a poor volume so watching movies or listening to music was not that fun. And since we tried your suggestion, we had 3 movies every night.


----------



## ade1982

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BoseFan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is, but it's a little complicated._

 

Could you enlighten me, please? I'd love to give it a go.


----------



## AtomikPi

I tried this briefly with my JH13's and found it unconvincing. I'm going to try it a bit more, but so far I prefer the CM+DH setup that I've been using for a while.


----------



## ironmine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AtomikPi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried this briefly with my JH13's and found it unconvincing. I'm going to try it a bit more, but so far I prefer the CM+DH setup that I've been using for a while._

 

Well, I am afraid I also prefer my CM+DH setup (upmix is set to copy, not surround). It just sounds less congested and instruments are better separated. In the CM I can also control the loudness of the central channel and the rear channels. Isone Pro Surround makes the rear channels too much dominating/loud to my liking. In the CM I can control the bass also in many ways.


----------



## fenixdown110

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AtomikPi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried this briefly with my JH13's and found it unconvincing. I'm going to try it a bit more, but so far I prefer the CM+DH setup that I've been using for a while._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironmine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I am afraid I also prefer my CM+DH setup (upmix is set to copy, not surround). It just sounds less congested and instruments are better separated. In the CM I can also control the loudness of the central channel and the rear channels. Isone Pro Surround makes the rear channels too much dominating/loud to my liking. In the CM I can control the bass also in many ways._

 

These are exactly my thoughts as well.


----------



## fiver

Quote: 





ade1982 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *BoseFan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


 
   
  There are several ways, here is what I do (not for iTunes, I don't use it.  But for other stuff)
   
  Install Virtual Audio Cable
  Install asio4all (optional, but preferred at least by me)
  Install VSTHOST
  Install ISONE (isone and VSTHOST don't really "install" they are just file copies but whatever)
   
  Set your default playback device in Windows to Virtual Audio Cable 1 (or configure iTunes to use that if iTunes supports it I have no idea)
   
  Fire up VSTHOST.  Under the devices menu, set output to ASIO.  Under devices menu, open ASIO control panel.  Click the wrench.  Using the blue power buttons in the panel, make sure the Virtual Audio Cable device is turned on, and its "In:" channel.  Same for the  device you are using for playback, and its "Out:" channel.  Turn off all unused devices.
   
  Load ISONE plugin into VSTHOST.
   
  Play music.
   
  Enjoy.
   
  You'll also probably want to read the manuals for all of the above products to understand what they do and how you can do other neat things with them.


----------



## Magnolia2k

Any problems using this on 64bit OS because I only see 32bit version?


----------



## fiver

Quote: 





magnolia2k said:


> Any problems using this on 64bit OS because I only see 32bit version?


 

 That just refers to the fact that audio is processed with  32-bit floating point variables instead of 64-bit double precision.   It has everything to do with your VST host and nothing to do with the operating system.
   
  Or I guess the short answer is that it works fine on Win7 x64.


----------



## ade1982

Quote: 





fiver said:


> There are several ways, here is what I do (not for iTunes, I don't use it.  But for other stuff)
> 
> Install Virtual Audio Cable
> Install asio4all (optional, but preferred at least by me)
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, I will give this a go!


----------



## ironmine

It would be an interesting idea to convert 2.0 channels to 5.1 channels first (using Channel Matrix) and then feed it to the Isone Pro Surround. In this way we would be able to control the loudness of the rear channels and central channel...


----------



## fiver

Quote: 





ironmine said:


> It would be an interesting idea to convert 2.0 channels to 5.1 channels first (using Channel Matrix) and then feed it to the Isone Pro Surround. In this way we would be able to control the loudness of the rear channels and central channel...


 

 I have done this with the VI plugin. 
   
  After quite a bit of experimenting I went back to regular Stereo ISONE. 
   
  No matter how I tweaked I couldn't seem to get VI tuned to sound natural.  And I haven't found any other (free) surround VST plugins that seemed decent.  YMMV.


----------



## Squa7ch

Yeah I'm a noob, how do I use this thing.


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





squa7ch said:


> Yeah I'm a noob, how do I use this thing.


 

 Here's how I do it: Foobar > George Yohng's VST Wrapper > ConsoleVST > JB Isone Pro Stereo > SPL Twin Tube > Sonalksis Ultimate-D > TT-Dynamic Range Meter:
   

   
  This is how it looks like when I open all VST plugins in the chain:


----------



## Edwood

I tried Isone.  Was not impressed.  I think Graphicism's Dolby Headphone tweak for Foobar was more effective, and best of all free.
   
  But overall, I found the best cheap hardware solution is the Victor.JVC SU-DH1.  It decodes both DTS and AC3 as well as adding surround sound to regular 2Channel, but I still don't like listening to regular music that way.  I don't even use my Smyth Realiser for regular 2channel stereo music.  Only for true multichannel sound.
   
  -Ed


----------



## Ruffle

I found for Trance, Heavy Rock it's interesting.
   
  But Isone Pro + Theatrical (Two Steps from Hell/E.S Posthumus) or Classical (Mahler) it's excellent.  I'm very tempted to say improved.
   
  Also I do not care about Surround.  I am more interested in Binaureal as that's what headphones are.... so using the Isone Pro 2-channel effect.
   
  George Yohng's VST + Isone Pro + Foobar2000 + ASIO USB Drivers


----------



## kenammo

I was very skeptical, but decided to try it anyway.  Well I'll be damned!
   
  My already excellent headphones sound even better.  Can't explain it - just gonna enjoy it!


----------



## SP Wild

I don't understand this VST concept - how do I integrate these plug-ins into JR?


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





sp wild said:


> I don't understand this VST concept - how do I integrate these plug-ins into JR?


 

 Are you using version 14 and up? If so, go to DSP Studio, at the left/bottom there's a button for "Add Plug-in." You add the VST .dll directly from there--just browse to where the VST .dll is. It'll then show up in your list of DSP effects on the left-hand side, along with all the default ones that came with Media Center.


----------



## SP Wild

Thats easy enough, Cheers!


----------



## stang

Finally got it working in Winamp and foobar2000 lol. 
   
  Don't know if I like it or not. It just really sounds like I am going from Audio mode on my creative sound card to game mode with CMSS-3D when listening to music. Same sort of effect. Sounds pretty miserable with metal thus far..


----------



## kenammo

I'm giving the Isone Pro a more thorough study today (too much single-malt last night).
   
  I still can't believe my ears. Definitely a wider headstage and specific instruments are more localized and separate. Bass seems more tightly controlled than before.
   
  On many of my old familiar albums I've played dozens of times, I'm hearing some sounds in the background I've never heard before.
   
  Very enjoyable!


----------



## Lunatique

It seems some of you don't really understand what Isone Pro is designed for.
   
  It's purpose is to make your headphones sound like you are listening to speakers in a room, with the sound coming from the same position as speakers would in real life--in front of you on either side. The parameters in Isone Pro allow you to specify the distance of the listening position to the speakers, how wide apart the speakers are (this feature is coming), the size of the room, and also head/ear parameters to match your uniquely sized head and ears and how they affect what you hear in real life.
   
  It's a tool for professional audio people who sometimes need to work on headphones, but have been wary of it due to the drastic stereo separation of headphones (no natural crossfeed like with speakers). Isone Pro takes it a few steps further beyond simple crossfeed and allow you to simulate specific listening environtments and speaker cabinets so you can check how your mix will sound on difference types of speakers, including common consumer ones like flat screen TV speakers, small multimedia speakers, car stereos, or even how your mix sounds when someone is standing outside the room. These are incredibly useful tools to the audio professional, because now they don't have to burn a mix every time and then go around to different parts of the house and to their car to check their mix in different environments and on different devices. All of these features are complete overkill and unnecessary for non-audio professionals or musicians, but typical music lovers and audiophiles can still benefit greatly from those features that are relevant to them--mainly the simulation of listening to speakers in front of you in a room of your choosing.
   
  Some of you probably didn't read the manual either, thus not understanding how Isone Pro operates. In the manual, it's greatly stressed that the user match Isone Pro's parameters to the reference monitor speakers they use for audio work, so that when they put on headphones, it will sound as much like those speakers as possible in terms of cabinet positioning and room acoustics. That right away tells you what Isone Pro was designed for. If you don't even have reference monitor speakers in your setup, then you won't even understand that aspect of this plugin. But even then, you can still create an ideal listening environment via Isone Pro so that you can have the perfect virtual listening room every time you put on your headphones. It's not just a crossfeed plugin--it is a virtual listening environment simulator meant to sound very real.


----------



## dw1narso

subscribed


----------



## ironmine

To put it simply: Isone Pro loses more details but creates a deeper soundstage and a stronger central phantom image, while HeadFit retains more details but the central image is weaker. VNoPhones retains almost all details but there is no "out of your head experience". This is how I hear it.
   
  I think the dilemma "more details vs. better soundstage" is unavoidable. It's just not possible to have both.


----------



## SP Wild

A brilliant piece of software audio engineering, highly recommended!


----------



## Lunatique

Isone Pro isn't really losing details--it is simulating what happens naturally when sound is being heard in a room environment and also your head/ear's interaction with the sound from speakers in a room. It's turning your headphones into speakers, and that's how your headphones will sound as speakers in a room. You can turn off the head/ear and room simulations and keep only the crossfeed if you choose to.


----------



## kenammo

From my testing over the past two days, I'm not experiencing any loss of detail. Conversely, I'm hearing _more_ detail over a wider headstage.
   
  I'm very much impressed with this software!


----------



## Br777

what are you all using to use multiple vst's at the same time in foobar?  Ive tried effects chainer but its not working well


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





br777 said:


> what are you all using to use multiple vst's at the same time in foobar?  Ive tried effects chainer but its not working well


 

 The best implementation of hosting multiple VST's at the same time is J Rivers Media Center (version 14 and up). It does it natively. I can also host something like Xulop Chainer in it and then load a bunch of plugins inside of Chainer and save various preset chains--extremely useful when you want to switch between different chains easily and quickly. Although Media Center allow you to save out DSP sets too, they can't share the same playback settings, so I use Chainer isntead.


----------



## SP Wild

Thats how I felt about it.  Could it be a Denon synergy thing?  I doubt any open can will compete with a Denon and good X feed combo in terms of soundstaging capabilities. 
  
  Quote: 





kenammo said:


> From my testing over the past two days, I'm not experiencing any loss of detail. Conversely, I'm hearing _more_ detail over a wider headstage.
> 
> I'm very much impressed with this software!


----------



## Br777

are you challenging the Mighty Thunderpants to  a duel?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  i just cant get used to Isone pro... the frequency responses change no matter what i do and i just dont like the difference in the clarity of the sound... otherwise it would be great


----------



## SP Wild

LOL! Not if the Mighty Thunderpants is indeed mighty, and it wears pants that in some way are thunderous.
   
  I am starting to believe that as we have amping synergy - there will also be DSP synergy.  No big deal really.  My next mission is to download every crossfeed plug-in available and to understand it some more.


----------



## Br777

let us know if you find anything good.
   
  you should talk to leeperry.. he is a crossfeed plugin testing machine.. 
   
  thunderpants vs d7000 would be great fun... ive only ever owned/heard the d2000... but its pretty universally accepted that the d7000 are way better, so i dont know what they are like
   
  the thunderpants suuuuuure are mighty though...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  if nothing else it would be one heck of a duel


----------



## SP Wild

Hmmm...Explosive thunder VS Earthquake shake.


----------



## Br777

welll it could be that my ears are beyond shot, but the non surround version does seem to do better with maintaining the integrity of the frequency response..


----------



## Br777

i have to admit, the more i play with this program the more it grows on me.   it really is quite amazing to hear the soundstage of these headphones blow open so drastically.  A really great example of what its capable of is listening to the head-fi open your ears cd - the first track that is the accapella of stuck in a moment.. Once i have had isone on for a while, and turn it back off, it feels like the guys singing went from standing a few feet away from me in a big circle, to crammed together around my head.. it really is something you've got to at least try.  
   
  at first i was trying to get minimum frequency loss and was being very timid with both the the cue stregth and room adjustment, but now im finding myself opening them up more and more
  i still keep the distance pretty close though..   i think having the head and ear adjustments on is a must otherwise the sound really does go to crap, but adjusting those correctly really makes a difference.  it doesnt seem like it does until you dial it in just right.. its like finding a sweet spot.
   
  anyway im definately going to keep spending time with this, and probably use it regularly. 
   
  BTW if anyone finds anything else like this that is comperable definatley let us know


----------



## prozach1576

I think this plug-in is amazing. It sounds good but not that much better than normal with my Etymotic HF2s, but man, with my Alessandro MS2s it's amazing. It tames mids and highs slightly in a way that I haven't been able to do well with EQ and opens up the soundstage a lot. It really does sound like I'm listening to speakers. Acoustic guitars especially sound worlds better.
   
  Works perfectly in MediaMonkey using that WinAmp VST wrapper that was linked to.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





br777 said:


> BTW if anyone finds anything else like this that is comperable definatley let us know


 

 I've tried a bunch and none comes close. Before discovering Isone Pro, I was using Redline Monitor, but compared to Isone Pro, it's almost laughable how much more Redline Monitor is while doing a lot less. The pricing of Isone Pro is way too low IMO. I think it's an amazing bargain for what it does.
   
  There are hardware products that cost far more, but don't have nearly the same useful features.


----------



## Br777

which headphones do you use with it primarily?


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





br777 said:


> which headphones do you use with it primarily?


 

 Any and every headphones I own. It's designed to work with any headphones.
   
  As a related note, I see some people talking about "synergy" in regards to the Isone Pro. I personally think the audiophile world's obsession with "synergy" is kind of misguided. It's basically another way to say "this particular product just happens to remedy the shortcomings and flaws of another product." If a pair of headphones have inconsistent and undesirable frequency response, soundstage, transient response...etc, then it is simply flawed. By trying to find an amp or other products to mate with it so that its flaws could be remedied, is ass-backwards. It's like putting the cart before the horse. Why not just choose a pair of headphones that don't have such problems to begin with? Why subject yourself to this frustrating and money-wasting quest to find that right amp or whatever to mate with flawed headphones? If you got a pair of relatively neutral and accurate sounding headphones, you could then use any standard amp or devices and it would sound just fine.
   
  Let me make an analogy. Let's say you have a TV and a DVD player, and let's say that TV has flaws like blurry details, inaccurate colors, lacking dynamic range...etc. When you play movies through that TV, the movies will only look as good (or bad) as the quality of that TV. So do you go and try to find a specific DVD player that just happens to remedy the flaws of your TV? Wouldn't it make much more sense to just get a TV with accurate colors, sharp details, high dynamic range...etc to begin with?
   
  Isone Pro does what it does, and if whatever headphones you're using has flaws, it's not Isone Pro's problem. There's not such thing as "synergy" in this case, just as there's no such thing as synergy with a particular genre of music or whatever. Good sound reproduction devices have no bias or preference for musical styles--it simply reproduces whatever the material is.


----------



## prozach1576

I think this is way better than the Dolby Headphone wrapper thing. I thought that sounded boomy, fake, and extremely processed. This sounds realistic and natural.


----------



## Br777

i dont know about synergy with isone pro but i have certainly experienced synergy or lack there of with amps...   for example i owned ATH-W1000X - they sounded great with my zen head amp, and pretty crappy with my hifiman ef5... they just didnt play nice together and the ef5 caused all sorts of flawed sounds that the decware did not
   
  with my new thunderpants, the ef5 sounds much better than the zen head.. the quality of the audio improves quite a bit in many ways.


----------



## SP Wild

It's true though, cans are the most imperfect components in the chain - From a purists pov, without resorting to EQ and DSP, the only way to remedy this is to synergise with imperfect amplifiers and dacs.
   
  I can say I used to be a purist...but with the discovery of DSP and EQ...and highly technical components, I guess I can no longer be considered a purist.
   
  However - in the case of 1% distortion valve amps - which I love, synergy is of prime importance.


----------



## Br777

people's definition of purist is sometimes irrationally warped...  people who refuse to use an eq in their rig call themselves purists but i always ask the same question-
   
  if you are listening through cans that clearly have major frequency imbalances - and its well known that probably 99% of whats on the market does, then you are listening to the audio in quite an altered state from its "pure" original state i.e. how its supposed to sound...
   
  using an eq in this manner simply fixes the inherant and often unintended imbalances in the cans and brings the audio back to its pure state.  For anyone who has taken the time to use a sine wave to "flatten" their cans the results are almost always drastic in both changes made and obvious improvement.
   
  the biggest problem is that most people never try this, and then spout about how balanced a can is having no idea, or no reference for how imbalanced they really are... Its amazing how many times ive heard cans and thought.. hey these are pretty balanced, only to run a sine wave, find huge imbalances, fix them and then a/b back and forth and say to myself.. how could i have ever thought that was balanced, and furthermore, how could i have ever standed to listen to them with all those imbalances...
   
  anyway im probably preaching to choir here, and if im not im probably starting a flame war...


----------



## Br777

btw fwiw, i have confirmed via sine wave that the isone pro plugin is altering the frequency curve that many people seem to notice... from roughly 1k-3k it creates a valley in the response curve. this varies depending on the intensity of the settings, but it is clearly there, and measurable. 
   
  that said.. it can be at least partially compensated for via parametric eq, without losing the crossfeed effect.


----------



## SP Wild

Quote: 





br777 said:


> btw fwiw, i have confirmed via sine wave that the isone pro plugin is altering the frequency curve that many people seem to notice... from roughly 1k-3k it creates a valley in the response curve. this varies depending on the intensity of the settings, but it is clearly there, and measurable.
> 
> that said.. it can be at least partially compensated for via parametric eq, without losing the crossfeed effect.


 

 Intresting finding, I'd imagine different settings may have a different efferct, however if I take your word for face value, it would explain why I felt the D7000s were more "musical" as that dip will have the lower mids stand out more. 
   
  This crosfeed is "fairly" transparent tonally - but I always believe my D7000 sounded a shade warmer with it on - it alters the tonal balance of my D7000 far less than any other crossfeed I've tried (yet to start downloading all available plug-ins).  If it brings out details and recording errors I have never heard before in my cans - I can only conclude that for the D7000 - it improves overall transparency in my D7000 by two whole steps.
   
  Also, I use EQ only with the smallest of adjustments - there are tonal flaws that EQ can't address if we are trying to get a particular can to repond in frequencies at a level it simply cannot.  ie, highlighting flaws that are masked by strengths.  I can never EQ a K701 to sound like a HD650 and vice versa.


----------



## Br777

^ yeah, it amazes how few people here seem to try out listening to sine waves, or using them to eq their headphones.  You can really learn a lot about and change a lot about your cans in this way.
   
  its really easy.. just download a sine wave file, and listen..   its a very long learning process to really pick out imbalances though.. it takes lots of practice..   that and its reeeeeeeeeally fatiguing..
   
  anyway if you do this youll hear what i mean.. or maybe not - it will vary from can to can as they already have their unique imbalances that would potentially drastically alter the way isone pro effects them in that way - this may also explain why some people seem to hear this dip due to isone more than others, or some not at all.  for some cans that may already have  a peak there, it may actually be improving the sound rather than creating a valley... 
   
  i agree you definately cant get one can to sound like another.. there is obviously a lot more going on from can to can than simple differences in  frequency imbalances, but when you have a good set of cans, and a good parametric eq, you'd be amazed at what you can do.


----------



## SP Wild

Yeah, I learnt a crap load with EQ and upon hearing a tonal sweep on you tube with a diplay of the frequency - I was quite surprised how forward sounding 1khz actually is, I thought this would be a center mid - but it sounded more to me like an upper mid.  20hz sinewave rung loud and clear with the D7000 - I was really surprised!


----------



## Downer

Currently we only support the Microsoft Windows platform. This may change in the future but currently no activities are foreseen to port plugins to MAC.
   
  Good for them


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





sp wild said:


> Yeah, I learnt a crap load with EQ and upon hearing a tonal sweep on you tube with a diplay of the frequency - I was quite surprised how forward sounding 1khz actually is, I thought this would be a center mid - but it sounded more to me like an upper mid.  20hz sinewave rung loud and clear with the D7000 - I was really surprised!


 

 I use this site all the time to test audio gear: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html
   
  Then also 20Hz sine wave, frequency sweeps, pink noise...etc.


----------



## Br777

that dip i was referring to earlier from isone pro actually starts around 300hz.. i overlooked it b/c the area from 300-1k is an area where my cans have a hump and it threw me off..  anyway ive pretty much come as close to perfecting the imbalance compensatioin on my TP's as i can and im finding myself using isone pro for almost all  my listening
   
  does anyone know of any free media players that play movies that allow you to use vst/dsp plugins... specifically effects chainer so i can use my eq and isone when i watch movies?


----------



## kenammo

Quote: 





br777 said:


> the biggest problem is that most people never try this, and then spout about how balanced a can is having no idea, or no reference for how imbalanced they really are...


 

 So true. I found this out myself (the hard way).  I always thought my straight cans were just fine.  Now I know better.


----------



## wadec22

scared of getting bashed, but i didn't care for this plug-in at all....   i am a noob to hi-fi, so maybe i'm missing something.


----------



## kenammo

Just a couple examples of some familiar songs I'm "re-discovering," thanks to Isone Pro:
   
  1. At 3:21 into Nils Lofgren's _Keith Don't Go_ from his *Acoustic Live* album, that guitar segue sounds exactly like he's performing it right in front of me, in my living room.
   
  2. At 1:34 into Led Zeppelin's _The Rover_, I can hear a background guitar feedback "growl" that I've only been able to hear on superior high-end systems in the past. It's as if I can hear and feel the air around Jimmy's fingers.
   
  3. The first 35 seconds of Talking Head's _Papa Legba_, from the *True Stories* album has always mesmerized me, the way the percussion and bells swirl around and through one's head. Now the orbit is wider!
   
  4. And of course, the last minute or so of Steely Dan's _Aja_, with Steve Gadd's incredible drum coda closing out the song. Absolutely breathtaking.  Even more so.
   
  Yep - I like it!


----------



## Br777

Quote: 





wadec22 said:


> scared of getting bashed, but i didn't care for this plug-in at all....   i am a noob to hi-fi, so maybe i'm missing something.


 

 to each their own...  in all fairness it took me a long time to warm up to it.  anyway if you dont like it, you dont like it....this happens


----------



## latent

Are these plugins for 32 or 64 bits Windows?
 Currently all plugins are intended for 32-bits Windows (Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7).

 I recently bought a new computer and have installed Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bits). Does this mean I won't be able to work with Isone Pro? The cans I have is Sennheiser RS 170 (Wireless).

 I think it does work seeing Br777 his signature where he says he is using Win 7 (64 bits) and Isone Pro? Just checkin', would be a waste to buy if I can't use it..


----------



## kenammo

Quote: 





latent said:


> I recently bought a new computer and have installed Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bits). Does this mean I won't be able to work with Isone Pro? The cans I have is Sennheiser RS 170 (Wireless).


 

 I use Windows Vista Home Premium 64 bit.  Isone Pro works perfectly with it.


----------



## thuantran

In most cases, 32bit program can work with 64bit Windows OS, in fact I use this on my Windows 7 64bit PC.


----------



## 129207

Would it be possible to, for example, play a game/ watch a movie on one computer, feed the signal from the computer's DAC/line-out to another computer's line-in that's running the Isone plugin and then jack your headphone into that rig? Can you listen to line-in signals in Foobar or J. River with VST plugins enabled? This would fix the problem of not being able to use Isone in application that don't support VST plugins like VLC media player or all your computergames. Just tell me if I'm being an idiot.


----------



## Br777

^^^^yes, it works with win7 64 bit.. you could always download the demo and try it to be sure though..
   
   
  ^ - sounds like too much work to me   dont know how that would effect the audio signal either..  I bet there are programs out there that play video that support these plugins... someone will come to our rescue.


----------



## bdh

I decided to try this, and while I don't get any 'out of the head effect' -- the image doesn't sound at all like it's out in the room, like my speakers do -- no matter what settings I've tried, but I do like the slight additional cross-feed.
   
  However, every 20-30 seconds I get a white-noise sound for about a second.  This happens in both J River Media Center 15 and Foobar.  If I don't use the Isone Pro plug-in, I don't have this problem.  I don't see that it is a 'feature' of just the demo.  Has anyone else experienced this?
   
  <edit> Well, that was quick.  I finally did find in one of the manuals that this is a feature of the demo.  Sorry about that.


----------



## bdh

But back to the issue that I don't get any out-of-the-head effect using this plug-in, Jeroen states:


> However, because of
> this limited model with just a few knobs, it may in some cases
> happen that it is difficult to match your own ears with any setting.
> We estimated that this can occur for a few percent of the listeners.
> ...


  I guess my ears are very different.  For those that do hear the image out in the room, does changing the HRTF settings make the image collapse back into your head or does it generally work more or less at all settings?  I also wonder, since I can't hear this effect, what other major differences there are between each of our hearing abilities, with both headphones and speakers.  I know that just about every high-end retail speaker setup I've heard sounds like crap to me and none comes even close to the setup I hear in my house, I'm now wondering if maybe my ears and how I hear could be a part of that.  (I doubt it, but it's at least a thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## jenneth

I've been using the Isone Pro for about a week now. Like bdh, I too, didn't get that out-of-the-head experience. It's an interesting module to try sometimes, but it's not something I would use on a consistent basis.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





jenneth said:


> I've been using the Isone Pro for about a week now. Like bdh, I too, didn't get that out-of-the-head experience. It's an interesting module to try sometimes, but it's not something I would use on a consistent basis.


 

 For those of you who aren't getting the effect of hearing speakings coming from in front of you--have you tried with material that has very drastic stereo separation (such as songs where the instruments are panned hard left and hard right)? It's very obvious with materials like that. Also, do you already have speakers in your room in front of you? Have you tried to match Isone Pro to your speaker position and room size?


----------



## srld

The difference is a lot more noticeable on certain songs, but it does make the music sound like it's coming from in front of you rather than from the headphones. I did a sine wave sweep on foobar looking at the freequency spectrum and it dips down maybe 6db from 620hz to 1.6khz. From 2khz to 5khz there is some resonance that creates a slight increase in loudness. Despite the virtual sound tampering of the frequencies, my D5000's actually sound more natural and less fatiguing, using a pair of studio monitors in my room to compare the sound.


----------



## jenneth

Quote: 





			
				Lunatique said:
			
		

> For those of you who aren't getting the effect of hearing speakings coming from in front of you--have you tried with material that has very drastic stereo separation (such as songs where the instruments are panned hard left and hard right)? It's very obvious with materials like that. Also, do you already have speakers in your room in front of you? Have you tried to match Isone Pro to your speaker position and room size?


 

 Yep, and yes, the effect was very obvious and I liked it very much. But with materials that already has good imagining, it's a lot less noticeable.
   
   
  Quote:


> Also, do you already have speakers in your room in front of you? Have you tried to match Isone Pro to your speaker position and room size?


 
   
  Yeah, my speakers at the moment is yours smaller cousin.


----------



## ironmine

I alternate between HeadFit and Isone Pro. Both are great and there's no clear winner. With some sonic material I prefer HeadFit, while with other material I use Isone Pro.
   
  Today I remembered how the author of HeadFit had advised to tune his plugin and I tried to apply the same tune-up procedure to Isone Pro. I switched off the right channel, set the Cue Strength to 90%, and played with Isone Pro settings trying to make it sound as close to the left speaker as possible (coming at me at 30 degree angle like a real speaker would). To my surprise, the best effect was when I set "Head Size" about 75%. (I had always thought that I had an average-sized head.) As for "Ear Size", I got an impression that it equalized the sound in different ways, and I really heard that with different ear size settings the sound became different, but I couldn't tell which one I liked best. So, I just left it at 50%. Then I returned the Cue Strength to 10% and this is how I like it currently.
   
  So, I encourage people not to assume that they know which head sizes and ear sizes work best for them in Isone Pro just because they think they know which size their heads or ears physically are. It's wise to try different settings with only one channel working.
   
  I also use FabFilter VST EQ after Isone Pro to correct the frequency response of my headphones to make it flatter. The actual frequency response of most popular headphones can be found at web-site www.headphone.com. For example, I have Denon D2000 and I added the following bell-shaped boosts:
  2500 Hz +1.5 dB Q4
  5000 Hz +1.5 dB Q4
  8000 Hz +1.0 dB Q4
  15000 Hz +1.0 dB Q4.
   
  The sound is very unfatiguing and natural, it just flows into ears like honey  The phantom image in the center could be a bit more sharper and laid back, though. However, in all other aspects the sound resembles speakers in a very nice way.


----------



## dreamist

This plugin is a godsend for my K702.  The image produced by Isone Pro really helps fixing their weaknesses.  As the K702 are known for their lean bass, dry sound, too wide sound stage, and sometimes a bit too pronounced at the top, Isone Pro brings the sound together, thus making the sound stage really believable, the bass more coherent and plentiful, adding warmth into the sound reducing its dryness, and tame the high a bit, doing all these while maintaining their original sound character.  It's still the K702, only better!
   
  HRTF calibration is necessary for me though.  I ended up with 75% cue strength, 15% head size, 20% ear size.  Room characteristics are 1.5-meter speaker distance, 0.2s reverb time, and 30% room size.
   
  But it's just a one time thing, and the improvement is HUGE! Only one minor gripe is that when I need to switch between speakers and headphones I have to keep toggling the plugin off and back on.  Would be great if there's a way to separate send channels to affect only headphones.  My monitors are on different outputs than my headphones, but foobar can't just have the plugin affecting only some channels.


----------



## cravenz

Quote: 





dreamist said:


> This plugin is a godsend for my K702.  The image produced by Isone Pro really helps fixing their weaknesses.  As the K702 are known for their lean bass, dry sound, too wide sound stage, and sometimes a bit too pronounced at the top, Isone Pro brings the sound together, thus making the sound stage really believable, the bass more coherent and plentiful, adding warmth into the sound reducing its dryness, and tame the high a bit, doing all these while maintaining their original sound character.  It's still the K702, only better!
> 
> HRTF calibration is necessary for me though.  I ended up with 75% cue strength, 15% head size, 20% ear size.  Room characteristics are 1.5-meter speaker distance, 0.2s reverb time, and 30% room size.
> 
> But it's just a one time thing, and the improvement is HUGE! Only one minor gripe is that when I need to switch between speakers and headphones I have to keep toggling the plugin off and back on.  Would be great if there's a way to separate send channels to affect only headphones.  My monitors are on different outputs than my headphones, but foobar can't just have the plugin affecting only some channels.


 

 You've got me interested now! lol


----------



## Roseval

I downloaded the demo version.
  At first I was struggling a little with the interface.
  Those rotary knobs look great but rotating them with the mouse won’t do.
  It took a while before I discovered you should treat them as what they are, a horizontal scroll bar.
  Maybe a fader is be more convenient.
  Head size (and ear) leaves me a bit puzzled, what is a 100% head size? Who has one?
  Anyway, these details aside, fooling around an evening with all those knobs yielded a soundstage I do think is pretty close to listening to a pair of speakers.
  Finally stereo of the headphone sounds like stereo instead of STEREO
  This is the first cross feed that really convinces me.
  This is what DSP is about, mangling the bits to improve the sound at a bargain price.
  I bought it, EUR 20,- well spend


----------



## kostalex

This is the first enhancer (either DSP or hardware based) I prefer to pure sound. Well done, I will buy it.


----------



## chinesekiwi

I know we aren't meant to swear on Head-fi but my impressions = holy sh______
   
  That is all. Slight tweaking is needed, particularly for HRTF as all our heads and ears are different but once that's done.....gees, it's crazy that this is only 20 Euro. Insane. It firmly belongs in the KSC-75 value bracket of audio purchases. 
  I got it the 'naughty' way but it was far too good to not let go on my cash for it for a legit licensed version. It's a steal at 20 Euro. S-T-E-A-L. With high detail headphones like my DT880/600, it's a whole new realm. Yes, I'd admit, the differences are greater with some tracks more than others but gees, overall, a huge difference from any crossfeed I've used. This is in a different league tbh. All the others sound so toyish and unrealistic compared to Isone Pro. Can I game with this?  
  Tbh, using this actually increase the detail in songs as you hear stuff masked by a lack of instrument / soundstage *separation / lack of HRTF factors.    *


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> I know we aren't meant to swear on Head-fi but my impressions = holy sh______
> 
> That is all. Slight tweaking is needed, particularly for HRTF as all our heads and ears are different but once that's done.....gees, it's crazy that this is only 20 Euro. Insane. It firmly belongs in the KSC-75 value bracket of audio purchases.
> I got it the 'naughty' way but it was far too good to not let go on my cash for it for a legit licensed version. It's a steal at 20 Euro. S-T-E-A-L. With high detail headphones like my DT880/600, it's a whole new realm. Yes, I'd admit, the differences are greater with some tracks more than others but gees, overall, a huge difference from any crossfeed I've used. This is in a different league tbh. All the others sound so toyish and unrealistic compared to Isone Pro. Can I game with this?
> Tbh, using this actually increase the detail in songs as you hear stuff masked by a lack of instrument / soundstage *separation / lack of HRTF factors.    *


 

 It's dramatically better than all the crossfeed out there because it goes far beyond what a typical crossfeed does. It's also a serious professional audio product that simulates speaker cabinets, distance, room size, and so on. For audio professionals, this tool is incredibly useful because now mixing and mastering engineers don't have to burn a copy of the project they're working on and then run around to the living room stereo, the car stero, the boom box, the flat panel TV...etc to hear how the project sounds on those various consumer devices--Isone Pro does it all without you ever leaving your chair.
   
  It really is an astonishing bargain for what it does. I personally think it's grossly under-priced (especially when you compare it to the much more expensive Redline Monitor, which doesn't sound nearly as good and doesn't do nearly as much), but I think that's also one of the reasons it might sell so damn well, because now even non-audio professionals and budget-conscious hobbyists and audiophiles can afford it and it will sell a lot more than if it was priced out of the reach of most people. By being so amazing and costing so little, it takes on the aura of a "secret little gem" that would create a buzz in any community that discovers it, like it has here.


----------



## ironmine

Recently, when tweaking the settings of Isone, I noticed that I tend to prefer to switch off *Cue Strength* adjustment (turned counterclockwise to "none") when I listen with Denon D2000. However, when I use IEM (Creative EP-630), I like *Cue Strength* to be positioned somewhere around 50-80%. Now let us remember that *Cue Strength *knob, according to the manual, changes the strength (effect size) of the HRTF elevation cues, which the *Ear Size* knob is responsible for. (*Cue Strength * has no control over _*Head Size*_ knob.)
   
  Accidentally, I read 3 days ago an online book on this website: www.ambiophonics.org/AmbioBook/Chapter8.html. I came across the following words (let me quote):
   
"_Binaural theory says that if you sit in the concert hall with small microphones in your ear canal, record the concert, and then later play it back with in-the-ear canal earphones you will experience an almost perfect "you are there" recreation._
   
_But let us consider, briefly, why this recording method can otherwise produce an awesome reality.  First of all, the sound from the stage and the hall during such a personal binaural recording reaches your ear canal (and the imbedded microphones) after being filtered by your pinna and your head shape. Since the playback earphones we are using are an in-the-ear-canal type the sound only passes through the pinna or around the head once. Also the pinna used to make the recording are your own, not those on some dummy head carved in wood or plastic. The two channels are kept separate throughout and the left ear playback earphone signal never leaks into the right ear or vice-versa. _*Thus we can state one of the basic rules of realistic binaural recording technology. In any binaural recording or reproduction chain there should be one and only one pinna function and it must be your own.*"
   
  Something clicked in my brain. The _*pinna* _is the visible part of the *ear* that resides outside of the head. Therefore, when using head-sized circumaural headphones (and probably supra-aural phones), the sound gets processed by *our own* _*pinna *_once, and, based on the rule stated above, we should not apply any *Ear Size* processing again! It means that Cue Strength should be set to "none".
   
  However, when we use in-ear headphones firing the sound directly into our ear channels, our pinnnae do not "process" the sound because they are bypassed, and, with this type of headphones, *Cue Strength* should be turned on and *Ear Size* knob should be adjusted.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





ironmine said:


> Something clicked in my brain. The _*pinna* _is the visible part of the *ear* that resides outside of the head. Therefore, when using head-sized circumaural headphones (and probably supra-aural phones), the sound gets processed by *our own* _*pinna *_once, and, based on the rule stated above, we should not apply any *Ear Size* processing again! It means that Cue Strength should be set to "none".
> However, when we use in-ear headphones firing the sound directly into our ear channels, our pinnnae do not "process" the sound because they are bypassed, and, with this type of headphones, *Cue Strength* should be turned on and *Ear Size* knob should be adjusted.


 

 I think it's best to ask Jerone himself regarding this. You don't want to guess at these type of things so it's best to ask the creator of the plug-in. I don't know if he's still following this thread but I'll ask him.


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Lunatique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I think it's best to ask Jerone himself regarding this. You don't want to guess at these type of things so it's best to ask the creator of the plug-in. I don't know if he's still following this thread but I'll ask him.


 
   
  I would be glad if he could confirm what my ears and my understanding of the binaural process told to me already.


----------



## ironmine

I wonder whether Isone does any internal upsampling/oversampling or not?
   
  If not, it would probably make sense to take advantage of its max 384 kHz processing capability and upsample the signal first 44.1 kHz > 176.4 or 352.8 kHz (e.g., using SOX or other upsampler) using an integral number (x4 or x8), then downsample it back to 44.1 kHz and then dither it to 16 bits.
   
  Those who can playback 24/88.2 or 24/176.4 files should downsample/dither to these values, of course.
   
  Certainly, upsampling/downsampling is not recommended normally, but here we deal with some very serious computations inside Isone. So, the benefit of improving the accuracy of these computations with increased sample rate may outweigh the drawbacks of the upsampling/downsampling processes. Also, if we upsample/downsample using an integral number, it makes these calculations more precise.


----------



## JeroenB

@Ironmine:
   
  You touched upon a very interesting and important aspect of binaural technology.
  Indeed, with headphones, some effects of the pinna can be foreseen, and even
 with in-ear models, there will be a resonance created by the 'tube' of the
 ear canal which is situated between the transducer and the eardrum - this will
 typically give a strong resonance at around 4 kHz.
   
  For good binaural reproduction, we need two aspects:
  - Given the position and acoustic coupling of the transducer and the ear, the
 signals at the eardrum should have similar acoustic features as those obtained
 with 'real' sound sources.
  - Because the anthropometric properties of individuals can differ considerably,
 it typically works best if the acoustic features are 'matched' to your own ears.
   
  For in-ear headphones, the pinna is excluded from the acoustical pathway
 and thus should be modelled in the signal processing chain.  For head-sized
 earphones, there is still a considerable difference in pinna effects compared
 to a far-field sound source. The latter can be modelled as a planar wave entering
 the pinna.For headphones, this is not the case, and the effect of the pinna
 will be much less pronounced than for far-field, real sound sources.
   
  In both cases, there is still a need to introduce some pinna cues, but the
 amount may depend on the type of headphones and personal preferences. This is why a dedicated
 control is available to modify this. Additionally, it may be the case that the
 simulated pinna cues do not match the ones of the actual listener, and in such
 case one may prefer to omit pinna cues all together (set the cue strength to zero).


----------



## leeperry

ironmine said:


> I wonder whether Isone does any internal upsampling/oversampling or not?
> 
> If not, it would probably make sense to take advantage


 

 There's several oversampling wrappers you can try(that's the only way to oversample in a VST plugin architecture AFAIK): http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=oversample+vst
   
  My fav. VST plugin also does it, its designers said they had to as working on 44.1/48 wasn't accurate enough. 96kHz is not oversampled.


----------



## kostalex

I use two DSPs sequentially in Foobar:

 Resampler (PPHS), set to 96 kHz
 George Yohng's VST wrapper (set to Isone)
   
  Then I direct Foobar output to WASAPI: USB DAC (Nuforce Icon HDP), set to 24bit / 96 kHz.
   
  Is this setup correct?


----------



## SP Wild

Quote: 





kostalex said:


> I use two DSPs sequentially in Foobar:
> 
> Resampler (PPHS), set to 96 kHz
> George Yohng's VST wrapper (set to Isone)
> ...


 

 nope.  If you're gonna use cpu upsampling - set it to the maximum your input will accept - I think that is 48khz with the Nuforce - upsampling to 96 with computational cpu - only to have hardware downsample it back to 48khz so your dac can see the signal makes zero sense. 
   
  I'm not sure if you have 1 and 2 in the correct order either - maybe someone else has an opinion, I'm leaning towards reversing that order.


----------



## kostalex

Nuforce HDP has 24/96 input.


----------



## SP Wild

Quote: 





kostalex said:


> Nuforce HDP has 24/96 input.


 

 At the USB?  I am impressed.


----------



## kostalex

Yes.


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *JeroenB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> In both cases, there is still a need to introduce some pinna cues, but the amount may depend on the type of headphones and personal preferences.


 

 It would be nice if the plugin could have a menu where the user could choose the type of headphones he uses, what do you think? Different headphone types, different approaches to sound processing... Also, it would be great to have an inbuilt upsampler/oversampler and separate volume controls for each channel...


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





kostalex said:


> I use two DSPs sequentially in Foobar:
> 
> Resampler (PPHS), set to 96 kHz
> George Yohng's VST wrapper (set to Isone)
> ...


 

 You may want to dither Isone Pro output (which is 64 bits, I believe) down to 24 bits.
   
  You can also try upsamping to 88.4 instead of 96.


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> There's several oversampling wrappers you can try (that's the only way to oversample in a VST plugin architecture AFAIK): http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=oversample+vst
> 
> My fav. VST plugin also does it, its designers said they had to as working on 44.1/48 wasn't accurate enough. 96kHz is not oversampled.


 

 Lee Perry,
  What is your favorite plugin?
  Which VST oversampler do you recommend based on your experience?


----------



## kostalex

It seems reasonable. How can I dither 64 bits down to 24?
  
  Quote: 





ironmine said:


> You may want to dither Isone Pro output (which is 64 bits, I believe) down to 24 bits.
> 
> You can also try upsamping to 88.4 instead of 96.


----------



## ironmine

You can dither using Sonalksis Ultimate-D: www.sonalksis.com/ultimated.htm
   
  To have more than one VST plugin running, you'll need to use Acon EffectChainer or Console (also LiveProfessor  or Xlutop Chainer).


----------



## leeperry

ironmine said:


> Lee Perry,
> What is your favorite plugin?
> Which VST oversampler do you recommend based on your experience?


 

 It's in my avatar actually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  and that's where they said that it's oversampled: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5101666-post296.html
   
_"The oversampling is necessary to avoid aliasing with the saturation, but also helps to get a more accurate response in the upper end. Just as you guys said, we use a steep IIR LP filter as oversampling filter."_

 And I'd fully agree w/ that guy who says that this EQ gives a more 3D sound...I use a more chirurgical EQ to kill ear resonances accurately(Somnox EQ), then Head-Fit to get a nice xfeed, and then this EQ because it sounds magical and 3D(it just does, try it!):  http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5056504-post89.html
   
_"makes the sound more 3D when you push the bands"_
  
  Christian Budde made a pretty good VST oversampling wrapper I think.
   


ironmine said:


> You can dither using Sonalksis Ultimate-D: www.sonalksis.com/ultimated.htm


 

 Izotope Ozone4 also has quite a lot of dithering algorithms...I use volume attenuation in uLilith so I can't try them, but its EQ part is lousy so I wouldn't put my hopes too high. Ozone4 is fantastic for some things, but not quite an "all in one" package IME.


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> And I'd fully agree w/ that guy who says that this EQ gives a more 3D sound...I use a more chirurgical EQ to kill ear resonances accurately (Somnox EQ), then Head-Fit to get a nice xfeed, and then this EQ because it sounds magical and 3D (it just does, try it!):  http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5056504-post89.html
> 
> _"makes the sound more 3D when you push the bands"_


 
   
  Lee Perry,
   
  You are always full of interesting ideas 
   
  How do you know which ear resonances do you have?  And why do you have to kill them if these resonances are the intrinsic features of your ears?  You don't go so far as trying to tweak what nature gave to you, are you? Just kidding... 
   
  Could you please share with me which settings you use in Trident A-Range to make the sound more 3D?


----------



## poico

*Ossicular resonance modes of the human middle ear for bone and air conduction*
   
  "The mean resonance frequency of the human middle ear under air conduction (AC) excitation is known to be around 0.8–1.2 kHz. However, studies suggest that the mean resonance frequency under bone conduction (BC) excitation is at a higher frequency around 1.5–2 kHz. To identify the cause for this difference, middle-ear responses to both AC and BC excitations were measured at the umbo and lateral process of the malleus using five human cadaver temporal bones..."
   

   
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2852437/


----------



## poico

*Ossicular resonance modes of the human middle ear for bone and air conduction*
   
   
*"*The mean resonance frequency of the human middle ear under air conduction (AC) excitation is known to be around 0.8–1.2 kHz. However, studies suggest that the mean resonance frequency under bone conduction (BC) excitation is at a higher frequency around 1.5–2 kHz. To identify the cause for this difference, middle-ear responses to both AC and BC excitations were measured at the umbo and lateral process of the malleus using five human cadaver temporal bones. The resonance modes identified from these measurements, along with finite element analysis results, indicate the presence of two ossicular modes below 2 kHz..."
   

   
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2852437/


----------



## leeperry

ironmine said:


> How do you know which ear resonances do you have?  And why do you have to kill them if these resonances are the intrinsic features of your ears?  You don't go so far as trying to tweak what nature gave to you, are you? Just kidding...
> 
> Could you please share with me which settings you use in Trident A-Range to make the sound more 3D?


 
   
  There's a tutorial here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial
   
  and another one here: http://www.davidgriesinger.com/headphones.htm
   
  Personally, I kill 2 nasty spikes around 6400 and 9700Hz.
   
  Well, you try it you tell me...we're a knowledge sharing community, and I wouldn't want to influence your judgment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Besides we're in the Isone Pro thread


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





poico said:


> *Ossicular resonance modes of the human middle ear for bone and air conduction*


 
   
  Poico,
  These are the natural ear resonances which you really don't want to remove  We should try to remove _*headphone *_resonances, not _*ear*_ resonances.


----------



## JennaFF

http://www.hermannseib.com/english/savihost.htm
  You can use that software with the plugin and set it up to listen to the line in port, then play it back out at the same time from the line out/headphone port.


----------



## ironmine

Just experimenting


----------



## ironmine

Why do we need to use the room reverberation feature inbuilt into Isone Pro if we can use any other reverberation plugin available? Even Jeroen Breebaart himself offers a free VST plugin called OmniVerb, which has more adjustable parameters:
   

   
  OmniVerb has got "Room" preset with 12 room-related parameters to control vs. 2 only in Isone Pro....


----------



## J-a-k-e

I've been switching between head-fit and Isone pro for the last 5 hours with my AD700's. They're both excellent plugins in their own right, I find head-fit tends to put you almost in the middle of the room with the band a few feet from the vocalist and instruments to my left and right with a reasonable amount of 3d depth. Isone pro creates a more focused & forward sounding sound stage as if you're standing a few meters back say observing from the entrance of the recording room which allows me to pick the location of instruments easier as opposed to the more immersive effect of head-fit.
   
  The two different plugin effect are quite obvious when listening to Pink Floyd's - Pulse. With Isone pro enabled I can clearly distinguish the locations of the instruments and music in relation to the crowd due to the forward focused sound stage but then I switch to Head-fit and although I loose that almost 3d image of the instruments to a degree, I'm able to clearly hear the immensity of the crowd around all three angles of the stage. Especially right after you hear the fireworks being set off during the last minute of the album, in comparison  If I switch back to Isone pro I can clearly hear where the crowd is although  since the sound stage stays mostly within the headphones I find I'm not getting the same impression of size and depth that at times seems larger than my living room from head-fit.


----------



## ironmine

J-a-k-e, I have the same feelings exactly as to the differences between Head-Fit and Isone-Pro.
   
  What do you think about the 5.1 version of Isone Pro?


----------



## J-a-k-e

I've had a brief listen and again the sound stage is less enveloping but more direct in comparison, so it would depend on what sort of material you're listening to I think. For movie watching though I definitely think Isone-Pro has the edge where surround effects and placement are a big factor and particularly shines when it comes to aeroplane flyover type effects. Unfortunately I don't have any musical material that's recorded in 5.1 to test with at this stage.


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





j-a-k-e said:


> Unfortunately I don't have any musical material that's recorded in 5.1 to test with at this stage.


 

 Firstly, you don't have to feed 5.1 material to the Isone Pro Surround plugin to get the surround effect from its output. If you feed 2 channels only, it will upmix them to 3/5.0/5.1 channels _internally_.
   
  Secondly, you can try to do it _externally _using plugins which upmix 2.0 to more channels. See my screenshot above where I used Neural UpMix plugin before the Isone Pro Surrsound. External upmixing gives you more settings to play with, compared to the internal upmixing in Isone. E.g., in Neural UpMix you can control the loudness of channels individually, you can change the width and depth also. When you move the Depth slider up, less signal goes to the rear channels. 100% depth does not send any signal to the rear channel at all, which basically renders this setup non-surround. Not to mention the possibility to use equalizers and reverberators on individual channels. Lots of possibilities.


----------



## J-a-k-e

I'm Using J. River media centre 15 which has native vst plugin support but when I listen to 2 channel material without any surround upmixing it sounds the same on both the standard and surround version.
   
  With wasapi in windows 7 I can set the output to 6 channel headphone on my soundcard, output format to 5.1 in j river and clone rear channels which creates a reasonable surround effect when I listen to The Eagles -  Hell Freezes Over - Hotel California. Except that deep bass drum which normally has a deep clean reverberating resonance sounds as if it's had the life sucked out of it, like a sort of phase cancellation I think.


----------



## bdh

To all the former Foobar2000 users out there, is there anyway to do the following in J. River Media Center 15?
   
  - Configure global hotkeys to Play\Pause, Next\Previous track, jump to next random album, etc. I want to pause at the touch of a key rather than fumble for my mouse, find the window, and find the pause icon.
   
  - Shuffle by album rather than by song.
   
  - Cursor follows playback. I hate manually trying to find the album and song that's playing in a list of 18000 songs.
   
  - After doing just about anything in Media Center 15 (look at Options, look at a playlist, etc.), and then go back to Audio my column sort I had is now cleared and I'm back at the top of the list, and so I have to yet again click the Album column to sort by albums and manually find out where I was looking or what's currently playing.
   
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





bdh said:


> To all the former Foobar2000 users out there, is there anyway to do the following in J. River Media Center 15?
> 
> - Configure global hotkeys to Play\Pause, Next\Previous track, jump to next random album, etc. I want to pause at the touch of a key rather than fumble for my mouse, find the window, and find the pause icon.
> 
> ...


 
  You really should be asking this on the J River forum--they are usually pretty fast to answer and very helpful:
  http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php#2
   
  There ARE hotkeys for playback. Just go to the playback on to top menu and look--all the hotkeys are listed right next to each function.
   
  Track highlight following does exist, but only in one of the modes--I think the Now Playing mode, or was it another mode. But anyway, ask on the official forum.
   
  You can save your layouts as custom layouts, and once you apply your custom layout to any of the views, it stays, until you change it again.


----------



## JeroenB

Quote: 





j-a-k-e said:


> I'm Using J. River media centre 15 which has native vst plugin support but when I listen to 2 channel material without any surround upmixing it sounds the same on both the standard and surround version.


 

 I can confirm that this should be the case; Isone Pro does not perform any internal
  upmixing. The 'surround' version can handle 5.1 input to render it on a virtual surround
 set, but any conversion from stereo to 5.1 should be done externally.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Also, people remember there's a difference between oversampling and upsampling:
   
http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> I use a more chirurgical EQ to kill ear resonances accurately (Somnox EQ)


 
   
  By the way, Oxford Sonnox does sound great, but actually it is not linear phase (if that's what you meant by "chirurgical"), it's a minimum phase eq... On the other hand, human ears are not sensitive to phase above 3 kHz or so I heard...


----------



## leeperry

ironmine said:


> By the way, Oxford Sonnox does sound great, but actually it is not linear phase (if that's what you meant by "chirurgical"), it's a minimum phase eq... On the other hand, human ears are not sensitive to phase above 3 kHz or so I heard...


 

 O RLY? got a link? anyway, after I asked uLilith's coder he's added built-in automatic latency compensation..meaning that you can add Electric-Q or any other EQ plugin in linear phase mode and there'll be no latency. But I've tried every EQ I could put my greasy hands on, and nothing sounds like Sonnox to my ears.
   
  Sonnox in mode 2 is specifically meant to kill resonances, and does a tremendous job. It's based on the Sony OXF-R3 pro mixing board code, this is serious business...even the guys on gearslutz swear by it. Personally, I've never heard such a good sounding EQ, it makes everything else sound like crappy freeware winamp plugins ^^


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> O RLY? got a link?
> 
> I've never heard such a good sounding EQ, it makes everything else sound like crappy freeware winamp plugins ^^


 

 See this thread: www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-shoot-outs-sound-file-comparisons-audio-tests/477502-linear-phase-eq-shootout.html, namely messages # 20 and 22.
   
  Have you tried PSP Neon HR and eQuality?


----------



## leeperry

yes, I tried both..EQuality is nice, but it's too colored to my taste. Anyway, yes Sonnox is the most transparent EQ to my ears: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/365801-eq-better-oxford-waves-ssl-any-others.html
   
_"Sonnox better for more neutral EQ duties"_
   
  To my ears it sounds perfectly flat and neutral, exactly what I would expect from an OXF-R3 board...this is not your usual crappy VST EQ plugin, this is world class.


----------



## ironmine

It's strange, but this new plugin DTS Neural UpMix sounds worse to me than another, quite old 2.0>5.1 upmixer called "Stereo to V.I. converter".
   
  Here's how I do it now for Denon D2000. This is the full VST chain in Console:
   

   
  The first VST is DDMF Metaplugin (www.ddmf.eu/product.php?id=3) oversampled x2 with Chris Walton's oversampler (see its description here http://sites.google.com/site/chrisrwalton/oversampler).
   

   
  Oversampling is recommended to improve the quality of the sound processing. Inside the Meta Plugin I put the following VST effects:
   

  http://www.stevethomson.ca/vi/
   
  Here you can see the settings I prefer currently (I don't like the rear channels to be loud). After the 2.0 signal is converted to 5.1 it is fed to Isone Pro Surround:
   

   
  I prefer to set the cabinet type to Sub/Sat (High-End), as it sounds more realistic/less muddy to me than the default flat setting.
   
  Then I apply my personalized EQ settings to get rid of headphone resonance:
   

   
  After that the signal gets downsampled x2 and comes out of the Metaplugin and it must be monitored for clipping and, if necessary, adjusted. I do it with Sonalksis FreeG Stereo:
   

   
  Now the signal is ready to be dithered back to 16 bits using Sonalksis Ultimate-D:
   

   
  The sound is very enjoyable. After I switch back, for comparison, to bypass mode in George Yohng's VST chainer, the sound becomes hollow and unbearable to my ears (it feels like it is coming from a big-sized concrete pipe).
   
  Please do not try to mimic the same settings which I use, as everybody has got his/her own taste, anatomically different ears and headphone types/models. All the settings in Stereo to V.I. converter, Isone Pro, EQ must be found by way of experimenting and hearing what sounds best to you.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





ironmine said:


> Please do not try to mimic the same settings which I use, as everybody has got his/her own taste, anatomically different ears and headphone types/models. All the settings in Stereo to V.I. converter, Isone Pro, EQ must be found by way of experimenting and hearing what sounds best to you.


 

 Very correct. A great way to calibrate Isone Pro in terms of HRTF is well, to use your speakers. Set the cue strength to zero as your pinna is the best indicator of your HRTF and adjust the head size until it sounds no different (I mean no different, not 'it's close enough' or 'minor difference') from the speaker setup with it bypassed or not bypassed.


----------



## leeperry

ironmine said:


> It's strange, but this new plugin DTS Neural UpMix sounds worse [..] for Denon D2000.


 
   
  The mids are grossly recessed on that phone...you really wanna wake them up: 


   
  But even w/ EQ, I still prefer to listen to a dishwasher.


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> But even w/ EQ, I still prefer to listen to a dishwasher.


 

 Now I understand your reference point


----------



## bdh

Regarding the Sonnox EQ, etc., the Sonnox is a 5-band EQ and the Waves SSL is a 4-band EQ?  These are for just general EQing of the sound I assume?  What about if you want or need EQing of very specific frequencies?  I'm currently using the 30-band Starplug Master EQ, and with some wrangling, have gotten great sound from it, but wouldn't mind trying some other >12 band EQ VST's.  Anyone know of any?


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





bdh said:


> Regarding the Sonnox EQ, etc., the Sonnox is a 5-band EQ and the Waves SSL is a 4-band EQ?  These are for just general EQing of the sound I assume?  What about if you want or need EQing of very specific frequencies?  I'm currently using the 30-band Starplug Master EQ, and with some wrangling, have gotten great sound from it, but wouldn't mind trying some other >12 band EQ VST's.  Anyone know of any?


 

 Sonnox Oxford has 4 different modes (read its manual). If 5 bands are not enough for you, you can use more instances of the same plugin.
   
  Try these VST equalizers: PSP Neon HR, Fabfilter Pro-Q, Flux ePure, DMG Audio eQuality, Sonalksis SV-517MkII, DDMF IIEQ Pro. Also see this thread: www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/378658-ultimate-plugin-census.html


----------



## PianistOne111

I bought Isone Pro and I'm really enjoying it. Right now I have it in a chain of two with Isone in front and Electri-Q in back using EffectChainer. Does anyone know of possibly better (faster/less glitchy) VST chainers?


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





pianistone111 said:


> I bought Isone Pro and I'm really enjoying it. Right now I have it in a chain of two with Isone in front and Electri-Q in back using EffectChainer. Does anyone know of possibly better (faster/less glitchy) VST chainers?


 

 Try Console, LiveProfessor, Xlutop for chaining effects.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





pianistone111 said:


> I bought Isone Pro and I'm really enjoying it. Right now I have it in a chain of two with Isone in front and Electri-Q in back using EffectChainer. Does anyone know of possibly better (faster/less glitchy) VST chainers?


 

 You must calibrate it for your own HRTF as all the default settings are basically quite coloured without doing so. Turn the cue strength down to zero as your own pinna is the best HRTF indicator for ear size and tweak with the head size function. Use speakers and bypass it and turn it back on until you hear no difference (I do mean NO difference). Room acoustics you can play with.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





pianistone111 said:


> I bought Isone Pro and I'm really enjoying it. Right now I have it in a chain of two with Isone in front and Electri-Q in back using EffectChainer. Does anyone know of possibly better (faster/less glitchy) VST chainers?


 

 I have been using Xlutop Chainer for years now and it's great. I even run it inside of J River Media Center, and I have preset chains of different configurations I've made that I can load up for different headphones and speakers sets. I could even have different effects chains setup on different audio channels, and then simply use the channel mute/solo buttons on Chainer to quickly switch between each effects chain as I test the different audio gear I have against each other.


----------



## anwaypasible

i think anybody that wants to pretend they are listening to music in a room of such and such size is 'playing'
  i can understand that audio mastering might want to take into consideration what the music is going to sound like in the average household room .. and for such purposes i think the audio technician is going out of his/her way and shouldnt care about those who havent properly setup their equipment.
   
  as for the rest of you.. why bother without pretending you are listening to your bookshelf speakers when you have your headphones on if you can rid yourself of all the room mode problems by wearing the headphones??!


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





anwaypasible said:


> i think anybody that wants to pretend they are listening to music in a room of such and such size is 'playing'
> i can understand that audio mastering might want to take into consideration what the music is going to sound like in the average household room .. and for such purposes i think the audio technician is going out of his/her way and shouldnt care about those who havent properly setup their equipment.
> 
> as for the rest of you.. why bother without pretending you are listening to your bookshelf speakers when you have your headphones on if you can rid yourself of all the room mode problems by wearing the headphones??!


 
  The mixing and mastering engineers work in very specialized environment--studios that were designed mathematically to minimize room modes and sound as neutral as possible. The problem is that nobody else has that kind of a room except for these audio engineers. Even those who try to build decent sounding home studios can't achieve anywhere near that kind of pristine listening environment because it is extremely expensive. The most we can do is to do acoustic treatment with absorbers, diffusers, and whatever else we can afford to buy or build ourselves. The really serious ones might tear down their garage or basement and completely reconstruct it according to an ideal plan for a studio space, but how many people have that kind of freedom to do that in their homes?
   
  The beauty of Isone Pro is that is simulates the pristine environment that audio engineers work in. There are no problematic room modes to deal with, since the virtual environment created by Isone Pro is the ideal room. And since audio is not really mastered for headphones but for speakers (otherwise, we wouldn't be getting the severe stereo-separation effect when using headphones), by turning your headphones into speakers in an ideal virtual room, you are basically hearing something that is much closer to what the audio engineers intended you to hear, as well as much closer to what they actually were hearing in their special studios (provided that your headphones are very good in neutrality, accuracy, and frequency extension).


----------



## anwaypasible

nonsense about the 'ideal room'
  as a producer.. you make it sound good for the room you are in if playing live, and then you make it without any effects for any rooms thereafter.
  nothing but the soundwave.. no reverb added for a room mode, no reverb added for the resonant frequencies of the average ear canal.
  the results are clean and ready to be put through a processor to remove 'modes' by your ear canal and/or room.. no sense in doing it twice or living with someone elses optimizations.
   
  now if isone pro was to remove those optimizations that are intended for someone elses perfection.. i would be here flagging a cute product.
  i tried it and noticed nothing but a stereo seperation.. which is fantastic for people that dont like the music inside their brain, i'm all for that.. but re-creating a room of any type is a step away from perfection.
  i think you are giving into far more blessings than those studios are capable of.
   
  the ear canal resonance needs to be addressed specifically for each individual prior to anything else.
  i see a future of people getting their ears scanned for such customization.
   
  and i just thought that thinking about people who recreate room modes (even studio ones) are taking a step backwards and something worth giggling about.
   
  how exactly the isone pro is simulating a ('the') pristine environment is unknown to me (obviously it is math) but i didnt hear any differences special to me that would make me want to purchase the product, so i posted with some concern.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





anwaypasible said:


> the ear canal resonance needs to be addressed specifically for each individual prior to anything else.  i see a future of people getting their ears scanned for such customization.
> 
> and i just thought that thinking about people who recreate room modes (even studio ones) are taking a step backwards and something worth giggling about.


 

 I don't think you understand Isone Pro's features. Did you even read the manual? The HRTF settings are what you use to customize for your own head and ears--that's what it is for. As for ear canal resonances, nobody can address that because that is like saying TV and computer monitor makers need to address your individual eye sight while they make their products--it's totally off base because there are far too many variants in the population--each person is different. No one can address that. If you're going to talk about address each individual person's ear canal resonances, you might as well just get a comprehensive hearing test and then also address your individual hearing capabilities across the frequency range too.
   
  Also, I don't think you understand what room modes are. You should read up on professional audio, studio design/construction, and room acoustics. You completely misunderstood what Isone Pro does when it creates a room simulation.


----------



## anwaypasible

of course i misunderstood.. you didnt say much of anything to compliment the functionality.
  i've had my hearing professionally tested and been given comprehensive results (although that was more than 20 years ago)
   
  for christ sakes, the technicians that tested our ears in school were capable of giving comprehensive results.
  not everybody has vision differences, and those that do eventually realize they are unique and get classified as having a problem.
   
  i did say 'custom' work and not something generalized without consumer reference.
  this disgruntled conversation is rather dull considering there arent much results for the consumer population to benefit off of.
  but those hearing tests in the schools do a fine job of gathering information to narrow down the obscure generalizations that you are portraying.
   
  as i said, that program did little for me other than seperating the sound from within my brain to the outside, not worth the other fancy functions you are growing upset about.
  knowing what is ideal, i fear not about your flags of misunderstanding, especially having had the program on my computer.
   
  using the 'room simulation' as your words of choice is only asking for more trouble/laughter.
   
  i'm once again filled with laughter considering i wasnt aware that i made such an arguement with strong points that you needed to reply to.
   
  i know what i need to read, and studio construction isnt one of them. phase manipulation hidden in the DSP's is where the quality is at .
  eliminating the soundwaves without room treatments is possible, just not widespread or available.
  they are just recently releasing the latex that has a micron small enough to capture bass / midrange / treble (and its been available for some time without general public access)
   
  an interesting point of interest would once again be monaural vs binaural because it is a binaural recording that allows the sense of space and location compared to a single microphone in a dead sound booth.
  its no wonder all the music sound dull and lifeless considering the monaural recordings that are perfect for getting the sound calibrated before the hifi binaural albums come out.
   
  but basically speaking, if you are thinking that you are listening to a binaural album anytime from the 1980's through 2010 - you are listening to a 'room simulation' rather than a real studio with a binaural mic setup.
   
  passing along serious info, i still havent caught a glimpse of what you are talking about


----------



## Lunatique

anwaypasible - It's unlikely you had "comprehensive" hearing tests done, whether by a paid audiologist or at your school. Hearing test in general only tests frequency ranges most vital to understanding speech, and anything outside of that range they do not test. I've asked around trying to find one audiologist that tests the entire hearing range of 20Hz~20KHz and no one does it, at least no in the San Francisco Bay Area.
   
  You don't have to use the HRTF or room simulation sections if you don't want to--you can simply use it as a crossfeed, and even as just a crossfeed, it is still much better than other crossfeeds out there.
   
  Once again, you have no idea what you're talking about with Isone Pro's room simulation. Do you even know what Isone Pro is for? It's for audio professionals to be able to check their mixes in different environments and using different virtual audio reproduction devices to see how well their mixes are translating. That's what it's mainly designed for. That's why it also has cabinet simulations. This way, if an audio professional wants to check how his mix sounds in a typical sized living room while being played by a flat screen television, he simply chooses those settings and he'll hear a virtual environment/speaker that closely approximates the sonic signature of a flat screen TV's tiny speakers playing in a living room. This saves hm from having to burn a CD of his mix so he could take it to different kinds of environments that typical consumers would listen to music in.
   
  As for the binaural stuff you're dragging into the conversation--they have nothing to do with the topic. You didn't even understand what was being discussed. And latex with micron small enough to capture bass frequencies? Do you even understand the scientific principles behind standing waves and frequency wavelengths? Do you understand anything about room acoustics and studio design/construction?
   
  Look, it's ok to admit that you're out of your depth and you don't know what you're talking about, instead of stubbornly trying to save face and appearing even more foolish for trying.
   
  Anyway, I've already done what I originally intended, which was to share my finding with the forum. Now that people know about Isone Pro, I'm done with this thread. You're free to not like Isone pro, but you ought to be talking about it because you truly understand what it does, instead of slagging it because of your ignorance.


----------



## anwaypasible

embarassing yourself much telling me what has and hasnt been done over here is really getting on my bad side.. i dont like the attitude stemming from you and your downright ten-folded self proclamation of exactly what i said previously.
   
  telling me how i am wrong only to say the same thing later on is abusive conduct (out of the blue might i add)
   
   
  'for audio professionals to be able to check their mixes in different environments and using different virtual audio reproduction devices to see how well their mixes are translating. That's what it's mainly designed for. That's why it also has cabinet simulations. This way, if an audio professional wants to check how his mix sounds in a typical sized living room while being played by a flat screen television, he simply chooses those settings and he'll hear a virtual environment/speaker that closely approximates the sonic signature of a flat screen TV's tiny speakers playing in a living room. This saves hm from having to burn a CD of his mix so he could take it to different kinds of environments that typical consumers would listen to music in.'
   
  is exactly what i said here:
  'i can understand that audio mastering might want to take into consideration what the music is going to sound like in the average household room'
  and here:
  'pretend they are listening to music in a room of such and such size'
   
  despite whatever facts and/or audio degrees you chose to hold onto, your will power used to talk to me in such a way comes with consequences.
  have no second thought


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





anwaypasible said:


> is exactly what i said here


 

 Yes, you said that, but you also misunderstood completely what a room mode is in that same post, and you seem to think that Isone pro introduces room modes into the sound, which it doesn't. You really should look up the term "room modes" and learn what it is because it doesn't mean what you think it does.
   
  Anyway, just so you understand, I'm not getting worked up or being upset or being mean--I'm simply stating things as they are. There is nothing malicious about anything I said. I doubt anyone will interpret anything I've written thus far as being uncivilized or abusive. If anyone has introduced tones of hostility, it was you who kept on saying how you'd laugh at this or that as if all of this is beneath you and you know better than anyone else, which sounds incredibly condescending and offensive. Often in a conflict, the first person the accuser should look at is the mirror--that's often where the conflict originated from. But in this case, the conflict is in your head only. I'm having a good day here, and I'm typing this with a calm smile.


----------



## poico

My actual setup for 5.1
   
  Use this setting to listen to multichannel music in foobar v1.1  in the following order

 1) DSP Vst bridge (audio in 5.1 that works only)

 *Isone Pro Surround: 5.1 channel / Distance : 2,20 M / Gabinet Sub/sat (high-end) / Room: off

 2) DSP George Yohng's VST Wrapper (audio in 2.0)

 *Console vst
   
  - PSP Neon HR (kill resonance Headphones)
   
  - Altiverb 6 (Room) Default MIX 4% / Impulse Response: Arts & Sciences building (Hall near narrow sources-stereo)
   
  - Sonalksis MaxLimit: Preset transparent / Release: Auto
   
   

   
My little room
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  the sound is very nice!


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *poico* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> - Sonalksis MaxLimit: Preset transparent / Release: Auto


 
   
  Why do you use a limiter instead of reducing the overall gain?
   
  The Altiverb preset you chose is great for recording music, not for playing it back through speakers!  You have to look for presets (or make them yourself) which simulate not the recording room of a studio, but its control room instead. In other words, not the place where musicians play, but the place where audio engineers sit monitoring the sound!


----------



## poico

Quote: 





> Why do you use a limiter instead of reducing the overall gain?


 
   
  not to have to adjust between songs
   
   
       Quote:


> The Altiverb present...


 
   

 I tried several Impulse Response, the "Arts & Sciences building" Mix with 4%, earl yref -2 db and other settings in the Default is very good


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





poico said:


> not to have to adjust between songs


 

 So, which side are you on in the Loudness Wars ? This limiter may be shaving off peaks up to several dB high. You kill the dynamic range, a very precious commodity nowadays, with your own hands...
   
  You can set the overall gain low enough so that even the hottest albums do not jump over the zero level. Then you can adjust the volume in your amp if you don't want to adjust between albums (such adjustment though would be the best variant as it does not sacrifice any bits in music signal).
   
  Try upsampling the signal before your chain and downsampling again before outputting to your DAC. The accuracy of the processing will improve...


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





poico said:


> - Altiverb 6 (Room) Default MIX 4% / Impulse Response: Arts & Sciences building (Hall near narrow sources-stereo)
> - Sonalksis MaxLimit: Preset transparent / Release: Auto
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So you are playing studio mixed/mastered material that already has reverb information in them, in a large virtual space that yet convolutes the reverb space even more? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is that wise? Wouldn't a typical sized listening room be more suitable since that's what audio engineers aim for when they do their magic? Also, modern audio mixes are already so overly compressed and squashed, with very little dynamic range. Is it a good idea to further squash the dynamic range with a limiter?


----------



## poico

Quote: 





> You can set the overall gain low enough so that even the hottest albums do not jump over the zero level. Then you can adjust the volume in your amp if you don't want to adjust between albums (such adjustment though would be the best variant as it does not sacrifice any bits in music signal).
> 
> Try upsampling the signal before your chain and downsampling again before outputting to your DAC. The accuracy of the processing will improve...


 
   
   
   
  thanks for the tip! I'm here to learn.


----------



## poico

"Coll's Living" would be ideal!!   has strong resonance in the bass. "Arts & Sciences building" is neutral, giving a great listening room! be configured without exaggeration


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





poico said:


> My actual setup for 5.1
> 
> Use this setting to listen to multichannel music in foobar v1.1  in the following order
> 
> 1) DSP Vst bridge (audio in 5.1 that works only)


 

 Poico, I wonder how you are able to use the VST bridge in Foobar 1.1 ? Everytime I add it to the list of active components, my Foobar  crashes.


----------



## poico

Quote: 





ironmine said:


> Poico, I wonder how you are able to use the VST bridge in Foobar 1.1 ? Everytime I add it to the list of active components, my Foobar  crashes.


 

 I do not know what the problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   here is perfect. I will send my components
   
   

   
   
   
*components*


----------



## ironmine

Poico,
   
  I just tried your VST bridge from the folder which you uploaded. My Foobar still crashes. It's a pity, I really need the second VST adapter. Unfortunately, the second instance of the George Yohng's VST wrapper does not work when I try to add it to the list of active DSPs.


----------



## ironmine

Does anybody know, in case of using an external vst plugin providing room reberberation, which vst chain is more correct from the theoretical point of view:
   
  Isone Pro > Room Simulation
   
  OR
   
  Room Simulation > Isone Pro
   
  ???


----------



## ironmine

Here are some other 2.0 > 5.1 plugins to play with:
   

   
  and this pair:
   

   
  This thread here numbers 14 pages of discussion already. I made a similar thread on the biggest Russian headphone lovers' website (www.doctorhead.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5255) about the Isone Pro and even translated its manual and it generated _*zero *_interest. The Russian head-fiers are so brutal - they still worship "bit-perfectness" and "the original mastering engineer's intent" as they did ages ago under Peter the Great.


----------



## Spookybear

isn't the ultrasone pro 900 priced at 450$?
   
  I would suggest getting the beyerdynamic pro dt770 (get 80ohm version if you don't have an amp)


----------



## poico

Quote: 





ironmine said:


> Does anybody know, in case of using an external vst plugin providing room reberberation, which vst chain is more correct from the theoretical point of view:
> 
> Isone Pro > Room Simulation
> 
> ...


 

  
  To use correctly (isone pro surround) is accurate DSP vst bridig (Input Audio in 5.1) for correct process.
   
   
   
  one more try
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 make new installation of foobar, then replace all components folder.


----------



## ironmine

Poico, I don't understand you.


----------



## poico

Quote: 





ironmine said:


> Poico, I don't understand you.


 


 I'm sorry. my confusion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I mean: Reinstall foobar with my componeets. to try to resolve the problem with "DSP vst bridge"


----------



## cedar80

Just found this thread, great plug!!!!
  Thanks for the tip Lunatique!


----------



## JeroenB

Quote: 





anwaypasible said:


> as for the rest of you.. why bother without pretending you are listening to your bookshelf speakers when you have your headphones on if you can rid yourself of all the room mode problems by wearing the headphones??!


 

 This is mainly a matter of taste. When reproducing signals over headphones, there are essentially 4 differences compared to loudspeaker playback:
  - The crosstalk (which involves acoustic shadow of the head and time delays) is missing;
  - The elevation cues caused by direction-dependent reflections on the pinna and shoulder are missing
  - The effect of the room is absent
  - There is no front-back dimension, only left-right.
   
  Some people prefer the 'clean and dry' sound that one gets in this way and of course that's perfectly fine. Another group of people prefer
 to have such properties included when listening to music or watching movies. If you belong to the latter group, you can use Isone Pro
 and see if it fits your needs; otherwise just don't bother to try it


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





jeroenb said:


> Some people prefer the 'clean and dry' sound that one gets in this way and of course that's perfectly fine. Another group of people prefer
> to have such properties included when listening to music or watching movies.


 
   
  I'd be surprised if majority of headphone lovers don't prefer a much more spacious and natural sound.
   
  Headphone lovers covet the so-called "soundstage" and the ability to "hear into the mix" and a "3-dimensional holographic sound." all of these things are hard for headphones to achieve and still sound natural, but with something like Isone Pro, even the most upfront and small soundstage from claustrophobic sounding headphones will become a lot more spacious and natural sounding. By introducing the room simulation, the headphones will just open up and immediately sound much more natural instead of so claustrophobic and inside your head with severe stereo panning/separation that's very fatiguing to listen to.


----------



## giedrys

Can someone post clear instructions how to make this work with Foobar2000? Thanks.


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





jeroenb said:


> This is mainly a matter of taste. When reproducing signals over headphones, there are essentially 4 differences compared to loudspeaker playback:
> - The crosstalk (which involves acoustic shadow of the head and time delays) is missing;
> - The elevation cues caused by direction-dependent reflections on the pinna and shoulder are missing
> - The effect of the room is absent
> - There is no front-back dimension, only left-right.


 
  Hello Jeroen!
   
  Would you please answer the following questions:
   
  1. Does your plugin internally oversample the signal? If not, do you recommend the oversampling/upsampling of the signal before your plugin?
   
  2. If I want to use another plugin to simulate the room effect (e.g., your own free VST plugin Omniverb), should I place it before the Isone Pro or after it?
   
  3. Can you recommend some good (neutral) initial settings of Omniverb?


----------



## poico

an excellent option for Room is the PCM Native Reverb VST Lexicon
   
   
   

   
   
   
  total control of virtual room!


----------



## chinesekiwi

No demo of PCM Native = annoying.


----------



## JeroenB

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> I'd be surprised if majority of headphone lovers don't prefer a much more spacious and natural sound.


 

 If I recall correctly a paper has been published some years ago in the AES community in which they found the two type of consumers;
 the ones that liked the clean headphones sound, and another group that had a preference for loudspeaker simultion. Don't know the exact details anymore...


----------



## JeroenB

Quote: 





ironmine said:


> Hello Jeroen!
> 
> Would you please answer the following questions:
> 
> ...


 

 1. Oversampling: no, there is no internal oversampling. Despite all the discussions on oversampling in this group, I have some doubts on the necessity
 of this. There are really no non-linear processes applied in Isone Pro, so I have some difficulty in understanding where a potential benefit of oversampling would come from.
  But maybe I'm just overlooking something here.
   
  2. External room simulation is best placed before Isone, so that the room is also processed by HRTFs. Obviously the external reverb should include the dry sound as well.
   
  3. That's merely a matter of taste I think. I personally prefer a much more present room than the settings I see published by others here... The ITU BS1116 standard recommends a reverb time of 300 ms. This could be a good starting point.


----------



## giedrys

Do I have to beg for Foobar instructions? Seriously, is it that hard to post it?


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





giedrys said:


> Do I have to beg for Foobar instructions? Seriously, is it that hard to post it?


 

 You have to use the Isone Pro plugin (v. 2.0) as you would you any other VST plugin - via George Yohng's VST Wrapper (it's a Foobar component).


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





jeroenb said:


> 1. Oversampling: no, there is no internal oversampling. Despite all the discussions on oversampling in this group, I have some doubts on the necessity
> of this. There are really no non-linear processes applied in Isone Pro, so I have some difficulty in understanding where a potential benefit of oversampling would come from.
> But maybe I'm just overlooking something here


 

 Not that oversampling is bad thing anyway..in fact it's very good. ALL DACs oversample. Of course, upsampling is bad but oversampling is good.
   
  I'm sure you know the difference but for others:
   
http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio
   
  and
   
http://www.soundstage.com/gettingtechnical/gettingtechnical200311.htm


----------



## mangamonster

Quote: 





ironmine said:


> I found good settings:
> 
> jb_isone_pro (or surround if you like it better)
> HRTF adjustment cue strength - 0 - 10%
> ...


 
   
  Whoah...this combo sounds great. I saved the settings and named it* Ironmine Especial*.


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





mangamonster said:


> Whoah...this combo sounds great. I saved the settings and named it* Ironmine Especial*.


 
   
  Which headphones do you use?


----------



## mangamonster

Using my Grado 325is cans 
   
  I did notice that with some heavily colored albums that there was a bit of distortion, so it only works well on really clean recordings that haven't been touched up too much. Simply amazing results with Nordic sound 2L and The Pizza Tapes...lovely.


----------



## dlei6

I'm trying to set up Isone Pro on foobar2000 and after reading this thread i am still extremely confused as to what people are doing...
  Right now my only active DSP is the George Yeohgn's VST Wrapper, set to Isone Pro.
  What else do I need? I tried to directly set this to Isone Pro Surround and it just sounds horrible... Do I really need an oversampler to make it sound better?
  TBH I just moved from itunes to foobar and I'm really not diggin the interface/complexity of setup 
   
  Can you guys put some screenshots/directions on how to set up foobar so help me with the transition?


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





dlei6 said:


> I'm trying to set up Isone Pro on foobar2000 and after reading this thread i am still extremely confused as to what people are doing...
> Right now my only active DSP is the George Yeohgn's VST Wrapper, set to Isone Pro.
> What else do I need? I tried to directly set this to Isone Pro Surround and it just sounds horrible...


 
   
  Please note that George Yohng's VST Wrapper cannot pass through more than 2 channels.  Don't try to feed to it 5.1 material.
   
  You have to calibrate Isone Pro, read the manual.


----------



## leeperry

ironmine said:


> See this thread: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-shoot-outs-sound-file-comparisons-audio-tests/477502-linear-phase-eq-shootout.html namely messages # 20 and 22.


 

 I don't like how eQuality sounds, and the guys in that thread confirmed that its phase linearity is wonky..it also doesn't say which one has the leanest phase response :/ I'll listen to the samples again.
   
*PS:* just did, Sonnox sounds flat and eQuality sparkling...I will try the latter once more, I love its GUI anyway.


----------



## poico

Was an indication of a great friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  *Cakewalk Perfect Space *
   
   

   
   
  Impulse Response of the rooms of 4 and 9 meters presents a neutral sound, perfect for listening to music in 5.1 or 2.0
   
   
   
Impulse Response


----------



## earthpeople

So I've been trying this out on and off for a few weeks now, though I haven't had a lot of time to really sit down and listen.
  In any case, no matter what kind of settings I try, I just don't really like it with my HD580s. However I really like how it works with my Grado SR80s.


----------



## dlei6

Yea maybe I did not calibrate it right, but just doesnt sound good with my HD600s. The Dolby setup introduced in the other thread was fantastic however


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





dlei6 said:


> Yea maybe I did not calibrate it right, but just doesnt sound good with my HD600s. The Dolby setup introduced in the other thread was fantastic however
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

*It is essential that you calibrate it. *
  The difference is significant tbh.
  Cue strength should always be at zero tbh as your pinna is the best indicator of the 'ear size' HRTF. If you have a large head like me, it is best to bump up the head size a tad (mine's at 54.5%).
  the setting on the ear size won't matter if the cue strength is at zero.
   
  the room acoustics settings you can tweak with but it's the head size that makes the most difference.
   
  My room acoustics settings:
   
  Room T60 (reverb): .45 seconds
  Room size: 68.00%
  Distance: 2.74m
   
  Of course leave at 'reference speakers' so Isone Pro doesn't colour the sound unnecessarily. 
   
  yes, Isone Pro is meant to be used by audio production purposes, but boy, it does a great job at crossfeed *when calibrated.*
  The default settings are quite bad tbh.


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> *It is essential that you calibrate it. *
> The difference is significant tbh.
> The default settings are quite bad tbh.


 

 You know... it's about half-year since I discovered Isone Pro for myself... yeah, on the one hand, personalized calibration is better than random or default settings, _*but*_... on the other hand, when I turn to zero Cue Strength, switch off both ITDs and Room, and I set Distance to the minimum, and when I compare these minimal settings to my carefully calibrated settings, I am amazed at how the minimal settings sound more open, detailed, transparent, etc. The degree of sound externalization provided by individual calibration is not worth it, in my opinion. Because the trade-off is muddied and confined sound.
   
  So, I use Isone Pro now only as a crossfeed tool with minimalistic settings and don't care for its more advanced features. As a crossfeed though, it's still the best (to my ears). This is the conclusion I came to after months and months of tweaking and playing with the settings.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





ironmine said:


> The degree of sound externalization provided by individual calibration is not worth it, in my opinion. Because it the trade-off is muddied and confined sound.


 

 I found it to be the direct opposite tbh. I calibrated mine just after I've had my ears syringed / suctioned and late at night with minimal ambient noise. That said, I have high detail headphones in the DT880/600 thus difference could be more pronounced due to the detail capture. With it calibrated, it's much easier to tell bad recording from good recordings. i.e. great recordings sound better, bad recordings sound worse.
   
  Honestly, earwax is a huge factor in your hearing.


----------



## dlei6

Is it like some magic setting that while you are turning the dial and you get to your exact head size the difference immediately WOWs you? Maybe my ears are not very tuned then, since I hear almost no difference when moving the headsize dial from one end to the other...
  Is it possible that you are just so used to your settings you are using them as reference? When I first switched from HD555 to HD600 I didnt like the 600's sound at all, but now I can't go back


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





dlei6 said:


> Is it like some magic setting that while you are turning the dial and you get to your exact head size the difference immediately WOWs you? Maybe my ears are not very tuned then, since I hear almost no difference when moving the headsize dial from one end to the other...
> Is it possible that you are just so used to your settings you are using them as reference? When I first switched from HD555 to HD600 I didnt like the 600's sound at all, but now I can't go back
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No, If I switch the settings to a default option, it's *easily noticeable. *The difference between the head size settings is subtle. It's really to do with the instrument separation.


----------



## ironmine

Quote: 





dlei6 said:


> Is it like some magic setting that while you are turning the dial and you get to your exact head size the difference immediately WOWs you? Maybe my ears are not very tuned then, since I hear almost no difference when moving the headsize dial from one end to the other...


 

 There is no "sound externalization magic and wow-factor". This is what the whole point is about. When you turn ear size and head size knobs, you do notice some small sonic and spatial differences but it's hard to say which settings are "better" or "more correct". Anyway, your ears become accustomed to _any _settings in several seconds and they seem to be as good as any other. However, the loss of detail and increased muddiness are something which you cannot get used to so easily.
   
  In my opinion, we should wait until scientists will come up with some reliable way of measuring the individual anatomical differences of each person's ears and then using this 3D model to accurately simulate the sonic transformations happening in our pinnas and ear channels. Then we can hope to achieve some really convincing externalization of sound. Until then we are stuck with generalized lo-fi binaural approaches.
   
  PS: I tried to find resonances in my own ears recently with SineGen and I found that my left ear and right ear have different resonant frequencies (7700 Hz right and 8400 Hz left). I hear how the volume rolls from one ear to another as I move the SineGen slider along the frequency axis. It's just an example to show how all ears are unique, even in the same person...


----------



## leeperry

j-a-k-e said:


> I've been switching between head-fit and Isone pro for the last 5 hours with my AD700's. They're both excellent plugins in their own right, I find head-fit tends to put you almost in the middle of the room with the band a few feet from the vocalist and instruments to my left and right with a reasonable amount of 3d depth. Isone pro creates a more focused & forward sounding sound stage as if you're standing a few meters back say observing from the entrance of the recording room which allows me to pick the location of instruments easier as opposed to the more immersive effect of head-fit.
> 
> The two different plugin effect are quite obvious when listening to Pink Floyd's - Pulse. With Isone pro enabled I can clearly distinguish the locations of the instruments and music in relation to the crowd due to the forward focused sound stage but then I switch to Head-fit and although I loose that almost 3d image of the instruments to a degree, I'm able to clearly hear the immensity of the crowd around all three angles of the stage. Especially right after you hear the fireworks being set off during the last minute of the album, in comparison  If I switch back to Isone pro I can clearly hear where the crowd is although  since the sound stage stays mostly within the headphones I find I'm not getting the same impression of size and depth that at times seems larger than my living room from head-fit.


 

 OK, interesting! My main problem is that my brain hates dual mono really badly....and the lower the jitter, the worse it gets. It doesn't understand why the sound is so natural...and yet not stereophonic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  On my cd1k(same drivers as the cd3k), the SS was very colored and already living a life of its own...this phone has a very cavernous headstage and every instrument has a SS of its own...I found Isone Pro too colored and prefered head-fit by far.
   
  But things have changed, and I'm now using a modded T50RP...its SS is hardly cavernous and its mids far more refined and neutral...I really need some life to be injected into my music to make it sound like genuine stereo to my brain.
   
  I'm currently using ironmine's settings(on The Beatles "Revolver Sessions"), it sounds a big phasey to my ears but I'll try to finetune them...at least my brain doesn't seem to ring the alarm that my ears are malfunctioning anymore ^^
   
  I will also try 112dB's plugin, I didn't like it on the cd1k...but at this point I really need a colored plugin to fool my brain. If head-fit had a "center channel" volume knob like 112dB's plugin, this might change.


----------



## tommelom

I bought the Asus Xonar DX to try out it's Dolby Headphone function. It was horrible. When activated all the acters sound like they ar sitting inside a box. Other people has said the same. Then again others, like people in this thread, is very happy with DH. Therefore I thought I would try Isone- pro and see if it has the same problem. But when I try to activate it when watching a DVD (with J.River), I just get "Not authorized for this output". Whats wrong?
   
As long as I'm here: You who are happy with DH, have u noticed the box-effect? If not, what do u do? What equipment do u use? And what are the channel mixer u use with it?


----------



## Lunatique

For those of you who absolutely do not want any change in frequency response, you might want to try Redline Monitor instead. It's not as realistic as Isone Pro and it costs a lot more, but its frequency response is much more flat--essentially just a crossfeed with some controls, and without all the additional features that Isone Pro has. I have tested both with pink noise via spectrum analyzer and Isone Pro even with the additional features turned off and acting as a simple crossfeed, still introduces some color (mainly a sharper sound in general).
   
  Here's my Redline Monitor setting for the most flat and natural sound:



   
  But if you need Isone Pro's extra features and realistic simulation of acoustic space and speaker cabinets, then Redline Monitor does not have those.


----------



## leeperry

redline monitor is modeled against an anechoic chamber, and yes it's much more expensive than Isone Pro...but after a few days of use, I'm really blown away by the SQ. It projects an amazingly natural sounding front channel and such an amazing 3D SS...w/o the hollowness/bloat of Isone Pro/DH.
   
  I use 0dB(I like a loud front channel), 30%(my modded T50RP already has an uber-wide SS) and 0.2m(it makes my right ear happy to hear the FR change, mimicking the reflections against my pinnae)...killer plugin!


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> For those of you who absolutely do not want any change in frequency response, you might want to try Redline Monitor instead. It's not as realistic as Isone Pro and it costs a lot more, but its frequency response is much more flat--essentially just a crossfeed with some controls, and without all the additional features that Isone Pro has. I have tested both with pink noise via spectrum analyzer and Isone Pro even with the additional features turned off and acting as a simple crossfeed, still introduces some color (mainly a sharper sound in general).


 

 we need to see those measurements eh!!


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> we need to see those measurements eh!!


 

 You can do the test yourself easily. Just use a spectrum analyzer (such as the freeware Voxengo SPAN) and put it into the end of your DSP chain and then play a pink wave (you can find them online to download). Make sure it's a pink wave, not white or brown.  Just turn Isone Pro and Redline Monitor on and off and observe the frequency response before and after and you'll see. Redline Monitor tilts the frequency response just a tiny little bit clock-wise overall, but it's very subtle, whereas Isone Pro adds a lot more coloration (though that's not necessarily a bad thing depending on what you're using it for).


----------



## yococo96

HI 
  just a nooby question : where did you find this plugin? 
  I tried google, megaupload, jeroen's site, nothing. 
  thanks.


----------



## falis

I don't see it there either.  Perhaps email him and ask.  The email address is there.
   
  - Ed


----------



## yococo96

thanks 
  I found the demo version (pro and surround) at http://uploading.com/files/get/aaa4f67e/


----------



## Xaborus

I cant find it on the site link?
   
  Is there a new version under a different name, or was it just discontinued?


----------



## yococo96

the link works with me, can you describe your problem with it?
  and yes, it has been discontinued.


----------



## Xaborus

Quote: 





yococo96 said:


> the link works with me, can you describe your problem with it?
> and yes, it has been discontinued.


 


  Oh okay, i meant on the official site, not on the fileshare.
   
  Thanks!
   
  Is there a newer version of this?


----------



## yococo96

Quote: 





xaborus said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I didn't find any newer version than this one.


----------



## chinesekiwi

New Isone Pro out!
   
   
  Quote: 





> Dear customer,
> 
> After more than one year of hard work, a complete re-write of the full
> software stack and a full redesign of all core
> ...


----------



## chinesekiwi

Anyway, yeah need to know a little bit about the science behind head-related transfer functions and room acoustics to really tweak it properly.
  You are very much hearing for detail via instrument separation when tweaking. If you got a larger than average head, you need to tweak it higher than than that 50% default really. Mine's at 55% (I do have a large head).
   
  Tip as earlier said in this thread is to put the cue strength right down to zero as your pinna is by default the best indication of ear-related HRTF's for you. I found a reverb time of .53 sec to be ideal for mixed genres (different genres prefer different reverb time due to the instruments involved)


----------



## yococo96

EDIT 
  It works very well now (was my fault


----------



## GreenLeo

Anybody may confirm if the new one performs better than the old one?


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





greenleo said:


> Anybody may confirm if the new one performs better than the old one?


 

 I played around with the new one, and I don't know if I'd say it's better. In terms of how it changes the frequency response, it's different, as far as I have tried, you still can't get a totally flat frequency response, since the plugin will always introduce its own coloration, even though it's less obvious than before (I did a spectrum analyzation on it with a pinkwave).
   
  The thing I don't like about it is that now the speaker cabinet presets are gone, and those are so very useful to a composer/mixer/mastering guy because we need to know how our music will sound on different systems, but it's not important at all the someone just listening to music.
   
  I discussed this stuff with Jeroen, and since his plugins are more like hobby to him and he's got a day job as an audio professional, he's less likely to design his plugins according to what the customers want, and instead designs them to what he personally wants.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Try this for room acoustics:
   
  After much testing with very high quality recordings e.g. Patricia Barber 'Cafe Blue'
   
  Distance: 2.72m
  Reverb Time: .56secs
  Room Size: 79.00% (the larger the reverb time, you must counter for it with a larger room, basic sound acoustics)
   
  Works across multiple genres and is quite unforgiving of crap recordings. You must adjust the HRTF (head size) properly though tbh. That's the biggest key. Patricia Barber 'Wood is a Pleasant Thing to Think About' is a great track for vocal separation and thus HRTF. The voices should blur as less as possible.


----------



## maverickronin

Does anyone know of a way to use VST plugins like this with ffdshow or as a directshow filter?


----------



## leeperry

Hasn't this software switched hands? http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/
   



  


maverickronin said:


> Does anyone know of a way to use VST plugins like this with ffdshow or as a directshow filter?


 

 You can use this winamp2 VST wrapper in ffdshow: http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/programs/winamp/
   
  32int winamp2 DSP plugin support in ffdshow has recently been added at my request, but it's still in beta stage...works fine for me so far.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Hasn't this software switched hands? http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/


 

 Nope. Same guy, just a name change for the company.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> You can use this winamp2 VST wrapper in ffdshow: http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/programs/winamp/
> 
> 32int winamp2 DSP plugin support in ffdshow has recently been added at my request, but it's still in beta stage...works fine for me so far.


 

 Got the demo version working it seems.  Thanks.


----------



## Br777

i always have to drastically re-eq my headphones to maintain a flat response once I intrudoce isone.. but beyond that im still loving this plugin..


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





br777 said:


> i always have to drastically re-eq my headphones to maintain a flat response once I intrudoce isone.. but beyond that im still loving this plugin..


 


 This is what I do:
   
  1) Insert a spectrum analyzer into the signal path after Isone. Make sure the slop is 3dB for a flat response. I use Voxengo SPAN (it's free and very, professional). You can use the mastering preset, but change the slope to 3dB.
   
  2) Run a pink wave. Make sure Isone is bypassed. Look at the analyzer and make sure the pink wave is read flat. If you haven't changed the slop to 3dB, now's the time to do it, as you'll visually see the response of the pink wave tilt and flatten out as you change the slope, otherwise it'll be tilted.
   
  3) Engage Isone and look at the pink wave on the analyzer. Now you see EXACTLY how Isone is changing the frequency response.
   
  4) Insert a high quality parametric EQ into the signal chain before SPAN (you can put it before or after Isone--I don't think it matters that much). Now adjust the EQ to flatten out Isone's frequency response while looking at the analyzer. This is very easy because you're seeing changes in real-time.
   
  Then that's it. You now can enjoy the realism of Isone without having to turn of the HRTF or Room simulation features, and still get a flat frequency response.


----------



## maverickronin

Did something happen to the surround version?  It looks like this new version only does plain stereo.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Did something happen to the surround version?  It looks like this new version only does plain stereo.


 
  I have the JVC/Victor SU-DH1, and the hardware implementation of Dolby Headphones is so much more convincing than any of the software implementations. There no comparison at all. Isone Pro's surround mode at best would only be similar to the software Dolby Headphones, and that's just not good enough for a convincing surround sound. With the SU-DH1, whether it's video games or movies, the surround effect is so convincing that I can clearly pinpoint which direction a sound is coming from. Playing games like FPS or any kind of action/stealth, I no longer get confused when I'm being attacked from behind.  To me personally, the loss of the surround version isn't much of an issue as I'd never use it anyway.


----------



## thuantran

Have you heard dolby headphone on cmedia OxygenHD chip (ASUS Xonar series for example)? when I used the sound card to play Dead Space for example, the effect was really good and better than the dolby headphone software implementation I heard later on. Still I really don't like to listen to music with Dolby Headphone, too much distortion.


----------



## maverickronin

I was mostly planning on using it for movies.  It is (was?) cheaper that the SU-DH1 too.  Both are much cheaper than a Realiser at least.
   
  I'm looking for something better than the HRTF built into the ffdshow mixer and I don't want to have to spend any money without trying it out first.  Those SU-DH1s aren't exactly common either, so I'd have have to buy it sight unseen/sound unheard.


----------



## Geruvah

Seems to have a link for OSX downloads. Now I have to find a player that can support VST plugins on the mac.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:  





> 3) Engage Isone and look at the pink wave on the analyzer. Now you see EXACTLY how Isone is changing the frequency response.


 

 Care to post a screenshot for the lazy among us?


----------



## Br777

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> This is what I do:
> 
> 1) Insert a spectrum analyzer into the signal path after Isone. Make sure the slop is 3dB for a flat response. I use Voxengo SPAN (it's free and very, professional). You can use the mastering preset, but change the slope to 3dB.
> 
> ...


 


  thats a good idea except the real issue isnt the eq changing within the signal path, its the way i hear it.  i eq sine waves flat whether using isone or not , but i base it on what i hear.  that way when i get the sine wave to sound as flat as possible to my own ear, i am assured to be hearing the music closer to the way it was intended.   this is challenging and not exact of course, but short of investing in some sort of tiny in ear microphone, and probably quite a bit of software, with what would most likely still be only semiaccurate results,  its the best i can do


----------



## chinesekiwi

People do realise that with headphones, a balanced sound signature sin't flatline like in speakers right?


----------



## Br777

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> People do realise that with headphones, a balanced sound signature sin't flatline like in speakers right?


 


  please explain...


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> People do realise that with headphones, a balanced sound signature sin't flatline like in speakers right?


 

 Yeah, but we're not talking about the headphone's frequency response. We're talking about Isone's frequency response, which isn't flat, so if you want Isone to not further color your sound, you need to EQ it to be flat (or turn off the room simulation and the HRTF features and only keep the basic crossfeed). Also, the spectrum analyzer in this case is only measuring the audio data being played inside the computer, not the sound that's coming out of your headphones.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





br777 said:


> thats a good idea except the real issue isnt the eq changing within the signal path, its the way i hear it.  i eq sine waves flat whether using isone or not , but i base it on what i hear.  that way when i get the sine wave to sound as flat as possible to my own ear, i am assured to be hearing the music closer to the way it was intended.   this is challenging and not exact of course, but short of investing in some sort of tiny in ear microphone, and probably quite a bit of software, with what would most likely still be only semiaccurate results,  its the best i can do


 

 When you say sine waves, what are you talking about exactly? Are you playing sine waves of equal amplitude at various frequency intervals and trying to make all frequencies sound the same in terms of loudness? Do you play log sweeps? Pink noise? If you are EQ'ing to get your headphones to sound more flat by ears only, how would you know what flat sounds like? If all frequency intervals sound the same loudness to you, that doesn't necessarily mean it's flat, because of the Fletcher-Munson curve. Using a visual spectrum analyzer is the only way to be accurate (or relatively more accurate than relying on your hearing alone).


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:  





> or turn off the room simulation and the HRTF features


 

 What.....
  To make as less coloured as possible and most realistic and as close to speakers as possible, you need these, particularly the HRTF 'Head size' function. As alluded to in this thread, the ear size function is kinda useless as your pinna is always the correct 'settings' for that funcation thus why you set the cue strength to zero, which only affects the 'ear size' function.
  Headphones by nature distort the sound due to lateralisation (the 'two blob' effect of headphones). If you understand HRTF, you'll understand why there's the need for that function.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





br777 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> chinesekiwi said:
> ...


 

 As headphones are directly placed next to the ears, the analog sound signal that it emits is affected by the resonances from the shape of your pinna, which is the fleshy outer part of your ear. This in turn affects the frequency response significantly, thus why headphone adjust for this by (in 'balanced sounding headphones) by having the bass +2-3dB and why there is a large spike at around 10k. Think of it like room acoustics problems in speakers.


----------



## Br777

my understanding of what a sine wave is: a file that sweeps from 20hz to 20k slowly playing all frequencies at equal volume.. the closest i can come to describing it is when you hear the sound effect for a bomb dropping in a cartoon.. beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... anyway im sure you know what im talking about..
   
  so then, i play that on repeat with a spectrum analyzer visible so that i can have a visual reference for where in the frequency field the sine wave is playing
   
  then, i use a parametric eq.. with the headphones on, to adjust for any peaks or valleys i am hearing to the best of my ability..
   
  the end result is that.. again to the best of my ability, i hear the sine wave playing all the frequencies at equal volume.. though technically eq'ing the bass portion is more of a preference.. i mean if i truly got 30hz for example to literally sound as loud as 1k, the bass wold probably be overwhelming.. but you get my point
   
  my understanding of the fletcher munson curve is this:  lets pretend you had headphones that could truly play all frequencies at the exact same volume.. well once you put them on your head your inner ear distorts this (very simplified i know) so that you no longer hear equal volumes of all frequencies.. therefore rebalancing them using the procedure described above brings you back to hearing all frequencies at the same volume.
   
  whether this works in "theory" or not, it is clearly working in real life.. its very obvious when you have "flattened" the sound vs a stock sound.. sibilance dissapears, bass fills out, all the frequencies of a given album just sound "right" especially when you then compare to how it sounded without EQ.. there is clearly a big improvement.   When I had really nice cans, like thunderpants, this was particularly evident, as everything just sounded perfectly real.. anyway you get my point..
   
  so this is what i do, whether im using isone or not.. if i am doing anything wrong please feel free to give me criticism.. all i know is that to me.. its the best i have ever heard things sound..
  
  Quote: 





lunatique said:


> When you say sine waves, what are you talking about exactly? Are you playing sine waves of equal amplitude at various frequency intervals and trying to make all frequencies sound the same in terms of loudness? Do you play log sweeps? Pink noise? If you are EQ'ing to get your headphones to sound more flat by ears only, how would you know what flat sounds like? If all frequency intervals sound the same loudness to you, that doesn't necessarily mean it's flat, because of the Fletcher-Munson curve. Using a visual spectrum analyzer is the only way to be accurate (or relatively more accurate than relying on your hearing alone).


----------



## attenuated 3db

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> I don't think you understand Isone Pro's features. Did you even read the manual?





   
  This is an old snippet of a reply to someone else, but it certainly applies to me as well.  I played with the demo version for a few hours, and thought to myself, "I'd really like this, if I understood how to set it up properly."  So I bought it, but the new Toneboosters version doesn't seem to come with the PDF manual others have mentioned in this thread.  So I have been tweaking it, but feel like a chimp at the helm of a commercial jet; lots of things to adjust, and they all do_ something_, but how do I get them to do the right things for me?   Just to make sure to avoid confusion, here is my control panel:  
   
​   
  I honestly don't know what "HRTF" means, other than the "TF" likely stands for transfer function.  And I have no idea how to tell it my ear or head size.  I had the darndest time just figuring out how to use my laptop's touchpad to adjust the rotary knobs; my initial experiences looked like someone struggling with an unfamiliar video game. 
   
  Anyway, I am using it under Foobar 1.1.2 beta 3, using the VST wrapper I found here:
   
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=84947
   
  Windows 7 64-bit on a Core i7 machine with plenty of CPU cycles to spare, but I had to use the 32-bit version of Isone Pro because Foobar is a 32-bit app.  And I tried that Voxengo SPAN spectrum analyzer, but it did not work with either Foobar or the VST wrapper, claiming it was either 6 or 8 channels, and stopping playback immediately. So, I acquired these two free tools, thinking I could correct some frequency response problems, but realized I am over my head:
   
http://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_FreqAnalyst/
http://www.aixcoustic.com/index.php/Electri-Q-posihfopit/30/0/
   
  I have enormous respect for your opinions, Lunatique, going back to long before I joined Head-Fi.  Reading your review of the ATH-M50S and then seeing the photographs of your studio, I knew I was getting true expert knowledge for free, and I'm sure you haven't steered me wrong with Isone Pro, if I could figure out how to configure this new version.  Any chance of luring Jeroen back to the forum to explain, or better yet, publish a new PDF manual or noob-oriented tutorial?


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Turning those features off to get a flat frequency response is what Jeroen himself recommended. Yes, you are sacrificing realism by doing it, and I personally love the realism those features bring, so I choose to keep them on and EQ the frequency response of Isone itself instead, if I feel I absolutely must have it. For leisuring listening, I don't, so I just use Isone Pro with all features activated and that's it. For critical audio work, I'll likely EQ the response simply because I can't afford a skewed response when I'm doing critical audio work, yet I like the extra realism provided by the HRTF and room sim over just a simple crossfeed . Besides, turning those off doesn't get you perfectly flat response, just relatively so. I just thought I'd pass along what Jeroen himself has recommended.
   
  Quote: 





br777 said:


> my understanding of what a sine wave is: a file that sweeps from 20hz to 20k slowly playing all frequencies at equal volume.. the closest i can come to describing it is when you hear the sound effect for a bomb dropping in a cartoon.. beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... anyway im sure you know what im talking about..
> 
> so then, i play that on repeat with a spectrum analyzer visible so that i can have a visual reference for where in the frequency field the sine wave is playing
> 
> ...


 

 What you described is a log sweep. A sine wave is merely a pure tone with no over-tones or complex harmonics, and it can be any frequency. It's the purest tone in existence, and has traditionally been the most basic building blocks of synthesizers. The 1KHz beeeeeeep tone used in broadcasting to test equipment--that is a 1KHz sine wave. If you go to this website, you'll hear sine waves of various frequencies. This is a really good site to use for testing audio equpiment:
  http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html
   
  And to add to that, you want to go over here for the Bink Audio Test CD (free download):
  http://binkster.net/extras.shtml
   
  Those two test tone resources are all you need to make critical judgment.
   
  One issue to keep in mind is that your own hearing may likely have its own idiosyncratic response, and if you are EQ'ing purely for yourself, including addressing your own hearing deficiencies, then go ahead and use listening as the primary method, but if you simply want Isone to sound neutral to anyone that might be using them, it's much better to use the spectrum analyer and simply play a pink noise, then EQ the response back to flat to address Isone's coloring. The latter method bypasses having to use your hearing at all because it is simply dealing with the audio data before it's even gone through the D/A converter--you're basically taking care of the problem at the source. A pink wave looks perfectly flat on the analyzer before Isone is inserted into the chain, and once Isone is inserted, it's clear as day exactly how Isone is coloring the sound, so it's a very simple and straightforward process to simply EQ the analyzer's reading back to being flat again.
   
  There's a huge BUT though.
   
  I suspect that by doing so, you're probably messing with what Jeroen carefully designed in the algorithm to sound as realistic as possible, since part of the reason HRTF and room simulation works is because in reality, your head and ears and the room will cause the frequency response to be altered. So it's really a decision you have to make for yourself--do you want the kind of realism that Jeroen programmed based on his expert knowledge of acoustics and audio, or do you want your own subjective idea of what neutral is, even if it's at the cost of messing with an expert's careful design?
  
  Quote: 





attenuated 3db said:


> Any chance of luring Jeroen back to the forum to explain, or better yet, publish a new PDF manual or noob-oriented tutorial?


 
  I have brought this up with Jeroen, so he knows the new version is much more cryptic than the previous version (isone Pro), and also missing a user's manual. But like I mentioned, his plugins are more like a hobby to him, so he's not as aggressive as typical developers when it comes to implementing user's suggestions and ideas. He originally designed those plugins for himself, and making them commercially available to the public was an afterthought. He's got a day job as an audio professional already.
   
  It's very easy to contact Jeroen--just use the contact form on his site. That's how I get a hold of him. Anybody in this thead can contact him anytime they want, and could ask him to come back into this thread to answer additional quesitions. He's usually very responsive.


----------



## Lunatique

Okay, everyone, I just did a testing session, and my suspicion was right. I went ahead and EQ'd the Isone Pro's frequency response with the HRTF and Room simulation has been engage. Although the EQ doesn't make the resulting pink noise sound exactly like the same pink noise with Isone Pro bypassed, it was close enough and certainly far more more neutral sounding than without the EQ. But here's where my suspicion was confirmed. When I A/B'd two Isone Pro chains, the one without the EQ is much more natural sounding, and the one with EQ is nasal and not as smooth.
   
  So, if you want the extra realism of HRTF and Room simulation, whatever change in frequency response is SUPPOSED to happen because that IS what happens when the head and ears and room acoustic become part of the equation. It is not a "mistake" or "unwanted coloration." That is how your headphones would sound if it actually became a pair of speakers in a room.
   
  My conclusion--don't EQ Isone. Leave it as is, and keep the HRTF and Room modes activated for the most natural and realistic sound.


----------



## chinesekiwi

I really should write a guide for this as I know a little bit of sound acoustics (with your guys' feedback of course) but really, I'm far too lazy


----------



## attenuated 3db

Well, I wrote Jeroen an e-mail like Lunatique suggested, and he was very prompt replying, just as Lunatique said he would be.  I don't know how many people have the old version of Isone Pro and how many have the new Toneboosters Isone like me, but here is what Jeroen wrote to me: 
   
  ----------------------------------------------------
   
   
Thanks for your email. The manual is in progress but may take a couple
of weeks to finalize.

The default settings should nevertheless work for most people, and you
may wish to reduce
the room effect by modifying the distance control.

Most people from headfi prefer a straight frequency response, so
select 'flat response'
from the loudspeaker cabinet. If you want flat HRTFs as well, set HRTF
strength to 0.
This should give very neutral settings.

I hope this helps for now...

Cheers,

Jeroen
   
  -----------------------------------
   
  So I am doing as he suggested, and retaining a  bit of the close-to-the-ear headphone effect I have become so used to by setting the distance at 0.5 meters, flat response and the HRTF at 0.
   
  Isone Pro takes some getting used to if you've chased your tail with various hardware and software tweaks in search of the elusive "bit-perfect, flat response" ideal. It completely changes the experience of headphone listening, and initially, some of the changes seem to be negative in SQ.  But then, you get used to it, and realize that with the exception of the rare binaural recording, most records are mic-ed and mixed to be listened to on loudspeakers, which makes headphones kind of unnatural in terms of putting you in an approximation of the same "space" that the recording artist and engineer had in mind.  My only real beef is it seems to make give my Sennheiser 650s a mid-bass hump they don't have without Isone that kind of obscures the clarity of transient high-frequency reproduction of things like flutes and top-hat cymbals.   But I take Lunatique's word not to try to apply EQ after Isone; I wonder if he would recommend EQ before Isone in the DSP chain?  I don't know if Jeroen would weigh in on that question, since there are so many ways for noobs like me to mess up EQ and then wind up blaming the effect on Isone.  So right now, TB Isone is the only DSP I use in Foobar, and when I am on a Linux computer like I am now that doesn't host VST plugins easily, I really miss it.


----------



## animemaniac

Omg thanks Lunatique! 
   
  I have been using foobar for who knows how long and have not ever heard of a player as good as it until I read your thread. I just bought both the J.River media Center and Isone after testing the trials.
   
  A / B with isone with just default setting on is so obvious! I will have to mess around with both J.RMC and Isone, if anyone have tips please do share.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote:  


> But I take Lunatique's word not to try to apply EQ after Isone; I wonder if he would recommend EQ before Isone in the DSP chain?  I don't know if Jeroen would weigh in on that question, since there are so many ways for noobs like me to mess up EQ and then wind up blaming the effect on Isone.  So right now, TB Isone is the only DSP I use in Foobar, and when I am on a Linux computer like I am now that doesn't host VST plugins easily, I really miss it.


 
   
  Typically in mixing/mastering, you want to put EQ before reverb, and since the room simulation feature of Isone is sort of a reverb (loosely speaking), you want to EQ before Isone. But as I mentioned already, after having done endless testing ever since I purchased Isone Pro up to now, my conclusion is to not EQ (but if you're EQ'ing the headphone and not Isone, then that's another story) and keep the HRTF and room simulation activate.
   
  Remember, any of you can invite Jeroen back into this thread--all you have to do is ask him.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





animemaniac said:


> Omg thanks Lunatique!
> 
> I have been using foobar for who knows how long and have not ever heard of a player as good as it until I read your thread. I just bought both the J.River media Center and Isone after testing the trials.
> 
> A / B with isone with just default setting on is so obvious! I will have to mess around with both J.RMC and Isone, if anyone have tips please do share.


 

 Glad you like 'em. 
   
  My setting for Isone Pro is very simple--it's basically just the default setting, but with the Distance set somewhere around 1.5~1.6 meters. This is mainly to volume match the processed and bypassed signal.
   
  That's it. Very simple. I've done lots of tweaking but I found that Jeroen did a great job setting the default parameters that will work for most people.


----------



## Unpackr

I'm using a VST to AU wrapper so I can use it in Logic Pro 9. The sound works perfectly the problem is the plugin image freezes when the window is moved around the screen... has anyone experienced this? Did you guys find a solution? Thank you very much!


----------



## Pitts Pilot

Super Noobish - apologies.  I should read the whole thread first and I started but every third word is something I don't understand, so I'm not doing too well.  (I ended up here after just finishing a 20 page amp A/B post where Lunatique recommended this, so I'm out of time anyway.)
   
  I have a MacBook, and E7/E9, and a few decent pairs of headphones.  I've only ever used iTunes.  Is Isone Pro something I can download and use with my current set up relatively easily, or would it necessitate changing all my music to some other format and using some other media player.  I'd probably be willing to do that, but I'm not particularly tech savvy (which is probably why I'm still on iTunes.)
   
  Alternatively, maybe there's another way for me to get some basic EQ and more importantly crossfeed-ish kinda thing going on that works with what I'm currently using.
   
  Thanks in advance if someone feels like taking a few minutes.


----------



## maverickronin

There might be some convoluted way to make it work with itunes, but you'll probably have to switch to a different player.
   
  I'm not a mac guy so I couldn't tell you how or what.


----------



## olor1n

Isone's integration with Fidelia is seamless on my Macbook. I consider myself a purist, but I must say playing around with Fidelia + Isone has been interesting.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Well, to use it properly, you really need to configure the frequency response to the frequency response to your headphones AND calibrate the HRTF. 
I do have a large head. Head size and ear size have little correlation to one another.

Mine: 



you must know the room acoustics and the 'rules' really. e.g. If the room is smaller, you must lower the (R)T60 time to compensate. Early reflections are never desirable. A lot of studio monitors used in studios are 25mm (e.g. Genelec 1031A, Adams). the HRTF settings make far more of a difference than the room acoustics. The default settings are definitely good but you really need to configure the HRTF and frequency response settings. I have the DT880 600ohm. You will have a different HRTF setting than me as you have a different size head and ear size.


----------



## yepimonfire

I haven't been able to get the plugin to work with foobar or winamp. The VST wrapper for winamp tells me it is not a valid vst plugin, the vst wrapper for foobar, well, it just never shows up in the list of plugins on G.Y.'s vst wrapper, even though i have configured the vst folders and put the TB_Isone.dll file into the folder. Nothing. Any suggestions?


----------



## wardslw

Quote: 





yepimonfire said:


> I haven't been able to get the plugin to work with foobar or winamp. The VST wrapper for winamp tells me it is not a valid vst plugin, the vst wrapper for foobar, well, it just never shows up in the list of plugins on G.Y.'s vst wrapper, even though i have configured the vst folders and put the TB_Isone.dll file into the folder. Nothing. Any suggestions?


 
   
  I don't know why the GY wrapper isn't working for it, but you could also try this VST wrapper http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=84947
  
  I've been using this VST wrapper for a while with Isone Pro and like it since it integrates directly into Foobar's interface. I created hotkeys to swap settings if I am going back and forth between headphones and speakers. Works well.


----------



## yepimonfire

Thanks, now how do you get the plugin to show up and work? It's not showing up under the DSP section on foobar.


----------



## pbandstefanwich

Just wanted to chime in and give a shout out to Lunatique for alerting me to this plugin. It's truly amazing! I've been searching for something just like this for some time. I was looking into physical crossfeed circuits and was about to build a Corda Cross, but stumbled upon this. All of my music sounds so much better now it's nuts. I love John Coltrane, but a lot of his recordings were practically unlistenable for me on headphones due to how much separation there was between the channels. After installing isone, I am finally able to enjoy Coltrane and some earlier jazz recordings again!


----------



## Lunatique

Looks like there's a hardware alternative now for those that don't like using software plugins, from Focusrite:
  http://www.focusrite.com/products/vrm/vrm_box/


----------



## Pale Rider

olor1n said:


> Isone's integration with Fidelia is seamless on my Macbook. I consider myself a purist, but I must say playing around with Fidelia + Isone has been interesting.


olor1n, like you, I like to keep it simple, but after stumbling on this thread, and trackng down the Mac OS X compatble plug-ins—no simple task, BTW—I am looking forward to loading this up in Fidelia.


----------



## Pale Rider

lunatique said:


> Looks like there's a hardware alternative now for those that don't like using software plugins, from Focusrite:
> http://www.focusrite.com/products/vrm/vrm_box/
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/image/id/1276030/width/1000/height/800


Not sure, but this page doesn't make it look like the VRM box is designed o be plugged into a high quality DAC+ amp chain. And, not surprisingly, it still relies on software as well. That's not a criticism, just an observation.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





pale rider said:


> Not sure, but this page doesn't make it look like the VRM box is designed o be plugged into a high quality DAC+ amp chain. And, not surprisingly, it still relies on software as well. That's not a criticism, just an observation.


 

 Looks like it still uses your computer's CPU to do its thing. I suppose the upside is that for those who don't want to or can't use VST plugins, this is a bit more straightforward (but has its own cons, such as being tied to a hardware box, while still needing a computer to run).


----------



## Pale Rider

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> Looks like it still uses your computer's CPU to do its thing. I suppose the upside is that for those who don't want to or can't use VST plugins, this is a bit more straightforward (but has its own cons, such as being tied to a hardware box, while still needing a computer to run).


 
  Agreed.


----------



## Pale Rider

Just got done with my first round of playing with the VST plug-in on my Mac running Fidelia. This is a very impressive addition to one's rig, if you want to play with a variety of settings. Interestingly, on most recordings, I still prefer the Lucid cross-feed mode on the Taboo amp. However, there were some recordings, especially live concert recordings, where the LCD-2s seemed to benefit from some of the "larger" stage potential of the Isone plug-in. For example, Neil Young's _Like A Hurricane_ off the _Weld_ album can sound quite closed in on the LCD-2s, but Isone can allow one to truly open it up a bit.
   
  This is easily worth the 20 euros.


----------



## dadab12

I don't get the all buzz around it honestly, It just takes the neutrality of my sound and makes it all muddy and colored, It takes the soundstage and clarity..
  maybe I'm doing something wrong but I doubt it. I'm using J river Media center and just enable it through the DSP Output.
   
  I have a Focusrite 24 DSP DAC.. it has the built in VRM.
   
  One thing I do enjoy is the J river media center, it improved my sound coming from foobar, honestly.
  one thing I don't understand is why does it force my buffersize to 8172 from the focusrite mixcontrol? when I try to set it to 64 it disables the sound.


----------



## Pale Rider

I have now had the Isone plug-in in my rig for three days. During that time, I added a Decware ZSTAGE, so I had to re-listen to some things. While I appreciate the significant programming expertise in the plug-in, and its amazing flexibility, at the end of the day, I chose to disable it, and keep it disabled. The most significant reason is because the plug-in seems to "flatten" a lot of music, removing its third dimension. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, considering what the plug-in is designed to do, but while it can create an illusion of sound being projected from a distance away, that sound appears flat, like it is being "listened to on a wall," the way a video image might be projected on a wall. No matter what presets or settings I tried, the Isone sounded unnatural and always became fatiguing. I also never achieved any illusion that I was listening to good speakers. One benefit of the Isone though, and for which I will likely continue to enable it on occasion, is that some of the more extreme settings make good "teaching tools," helping you to exaggerate effects and listen for their impacts on the sound. That's not all bad. I could see it being useful for helping people to understand imaging and soundstage, at least in two dimensions. YMMV, so if you're interested, try it out. I am glad I did.
   
  Another significant factor in favor of disabling the Isone plug-in is that Lucid mode on the Taboo is simply better. It is a better cross-feed approach in my experience. Not as flexible, since it can only be turned on or off, but simpler, more natural, and better. Truly three-dimensional.


----------



## dadab12

Totally agree with you.
  
  Quote: 





pale rider said:


> I have now had the Isone plug-in in my rig for three days. During that time, I added a Decware ZSTAGE, so I had to re-listen to some things. While I appreciate the significant programming expertise in the plug-in, and its amazing flexibility, at the end of the day, I chose to disable it, and keep it disabled. The most significant reason is because the plug-in seems to "flatten" a lot of music, removing its third dimension. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, considering what the plug-in is designed to do, but while it can create an illusion of sound being projected from a distance away, that sound appears flat, like it is being "listened to on a wall," the way a video image might be projected on a wall. No matter what presets or settings I tried, the Isone sounded unnatural and always became fatiguing. I also never achieved any illusion that I was listening to good speakers. One benefit of the Isone though, and for which I will likely continue to enable it on occasion, is that some of the more extreme settings make good "teaching tools," helping you to exaggerate effects and listen for their impacts on the sound. That's not all bad. I could see it being useful for helping people to understand imaging and soundstage, at least in two dimensions. YMMV, so if you're interested, try it out. I am glad I did.
> 
> Another significant factor in favor of disabling the Isone plug-in is that Lucid mode on the Taboo is simply better. It is a better cross-feed approach in my experience. Not as flexible, since it can only be turned on or off, but simpler, more natural, and better. Truly three-dimensional.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





pale rider said:


> I have now had the Isone plug-in in my rig for three days. During that time, I added a Decware ZSTAGE, so I had to re-listen to some things. While I appreciate the significant programming expertise in the plug-in, and its amazing flexibility, at the end of the day, I chose to disable it, and keep it disabled. The most significant reason is because the plug-in seems to "flatten" a lot of music, removing its third dimension. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, considering what the plug-in is designed to do, but while it can create an illusion of sound being projected from a distance away, that sound appears flat, like it is being "listened to on a wall," the way a video image might be projected on a wall. No matter what presets or settings I tried, the Isone sounded unnatural and always became fatiguing. I also never achieved any illusion that I was listening to good speakers. One benefit of the Isone though, and for which I will likely continue to enable it on occasion, is that some of the more extreme settings make good "teaching tools," helping you to exaggerate effects and listen for their impacts on the sound. That's not all bad. I could see it being useful for helping people to understand imaging and soundstage, at least in two dimensions. YMMV, so if you're interested, try it out. I am glad I did.
> 
> Another significant factor in favor of disabling the Isone plug-in is that Lucid mode on the Taboo is simply better. It is a better cross-feed approach in my experience. Not as flexible, since it can only be turned on or off, but simpler, more natural, and better. Truly three-dimensional.


 

 I played around with Isone for a few days but haven't enabled it since. It's certainly an impressive bit software and I can understand its practical application, but in the long term I didn't find the presentation that engaging.


----------



## yepimonfire

so do room acoustics, which is what this is trying to emulate, why do you think i sold my stereo and bought headphones with the money?
  
  Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> I don't get the all buzz around it honestly,* It just takes the neutrality of my sound and makes it all muddy and colored, It takes the soundstage and clarity..*
> maybe I'm doing something wrong but I doubt it. I'm using J river Media center and just enable it through the DSP Output.
> 
> I have a Focusrite 24 DSP DAC.. it has the built in VRM.
> ...


----------



## Lunatique

I suspect that some of you like the severe stereo imaging of headphones and have grown accustomed to it, thus when listening to a more neutral and accurate representation of the same musical material, you actually think it's colored and the traditional headphone representation is "more accurate and dynamic." I don't know how many of you know this, but professional mixing and mastering engineers avoid working with headphones because it has a very unnatural stereo imaging with severe left and right channel splits, and its proximity is too close to the ears for a dimensional sound that's natural. What Isone Pro does, is to simply make your headphones sound like speakers in an acoustically ideal room, so it's no longer unnatural sounding. It's the other way around than what some of you think. It might be that you guys need a bit of deprogramming from having gotten too used to the unnatural representation of headphones, sort of like how some people who grew up with the very colored hi-fi sound all their lives listens to neutral and accurate sonic signature for the first time and prefers the colored consumer hi-fi sound instead. They'll need to let their brains and ears get used to the more neutral and accurate representation, and once they do, they go back and listen to that consumer hi-fi sound again, and they'll be able to hear all the flaws they couldn't before.
   
  It's a gross misunderstanding to think that Isone Pro introduces "room modes." Isone Pro does not introduce room modes at all. What it simulates is the IDEAL acoustics of the Perfect room, meaning there are NO room modes. If you're unsure what room mode means, you should look it up. Room modes means there are anomalies and coloration due to sound wave build-ups in the room. Isone Pro does not try to introduce imperfections--it does the opposite, which is like an anechoic chamber, and has no room modes.


----------



## revolink24

I've been playing with this on and off for a few days, and I figured I would share my thoughts on it.

It sucks. It adds a neat effect in some of the presets for making the sound come from a far left distant space, or from another room, but I can't for the life of me get it to sound good. It always sounds muddy, distorted, and still doesn't sounds like a properly spaced pair of speakers in a decent acoustically treated room.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





revolink24 said:


> I've been playing with this on and off for a few days, and I figured I would share my thoughts on it.
> 
> It sucks. It adds a neat effect in some of the presets for making the sound come from a far left distant space, or from another room, but I can't for the life of me get it to sound good. It always sounds muddy, distorted, and still doesn't sounds like a properly spaced pair of speakers in a decent acoustically treated room.


 

 Post screenshots of your settings. Also, did you read the manual on how to properly setup the plugin for your head and ear size, as well as what the presets actually do? In general, the best place to start is to simply use the default setting, as that was tweaked by Jeroen to be the most likely to fit the highest percentage of people. The default setting sounds just fine to me, and the only change make is to have the speakers at 2 meters distance. There's really no need to change anything else, unless you want to tailor the HTRF to your uniquely shaped/sized head/ears. For the average person with normal sized head and ears, they shouldn't have to.


----------



## Zida

I've had fun with Isone Pro on and off again for a long while, but I've never gotten the settings right to make it feel like it isn't messing with my frequency response. I really wish I could because it seems like a great piece of software.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





zida said:


> I've had fun with Isone Pro on and off again for a long while, but I've never gotten the settings right to make it feel like it isn't messing with my frequency response. I really wish I could because it seems like a great piece of software.


 

 I think it needs to be clarified that Isone Pro isn't "messing" with the frequency response. The change in frequency response is necessary in order for the effect to sound realistic--it's part of the HTRF feature. See, when you listen to speakers in a room, the way the sound waves interact with your head and ears will alter how the audio sounds than if you didn't have a head or ears. In other words, the shape of your head and ears will change how the audio sounds.
   
  If you do this experiment, you'll see what I mean. Listen to anything, and then cup your hands behind your ears at an angle. Hear the immediate change in the frequency response? That's basically what your ears are doing, and in conjunction to the size/shape of your head, they change how the audio sounds. It is this very thing that Isone Pro emulates with its HTRF (Head Related Tranfers Functions) feature. When you listen to headphones, because the drivers are coming from the side and not from the front, there's no HTRF happening, thus the audio will not sound like a realistic emulation of speakers in front of you. Isone Pro reintroduces that back into the signal chain.
   
  I have done experiments where I counter Isone Pro's alteration of the frequency response with an EQ, so that everything's perfect flat again, and you know what happened? The realism of the effect was destroyed. So in order to get that realistic effect, it's necessary to model realistically the HTRF response, which means to put your head and ears back into the headphone setting, so the audio can sound like speakers in a room. That's why the frequency response is changed, and it is only changed so it sounds like you have a head and ears interacting with speakers in a room. So, again, Isone Pro is not "messing" with the frequency response. It is simply modeling the human head and ears realistically so the illusion of listening to speakers in a room is convincing and natural.


----------



## olor1n

If only all music was mixed like this - http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/552015/binaural-mixing-with-lcd-2#post_7441740.


----------



## revolink24

I would love for more binaural music to be made.


----------



## yepimonfire

i mix with headphones all the time, it always sounds good on speakers later, you just have to keep in mind that headphones are exagerrated when it comes to stereo imaging otherwise you end up with and incredibly narrow soundstage on speakers.
  Quote: 





lunatique said:


> I suspect that some of you like the severe stereo imaging of headphones and have grown accustomed to it, thus when listening to a more neutral and accurate representation of the same musical material, you actually think it's colored and the traditional headphone representation is "more accurate and dynamic." I don't know how many of you know this, but professional mixing and mastering engineers avoid working with headphones because it has a very unnatural stereo imaging with severe left and right channel splits, and its proximity is too close to the ears for a dimensional sound that's natural. What Isone Pro does, is to simply make your headphones sound like speakers in an acoustically ideal room, so it's no longer unnatural sounding. It's the other way around than what some of you think. It might be that you guys need a bit of deprogramming from having gotten too used to the unnatural representation of headphones, sort of like how some people who grew up with the very colored hi-fi sound all their lives listens to neutral and accurate sonic signature for the first time and prefers the colored consumer hi-fi sound instead. They'll need to let their brains and ears get used to the more neutral and accurate representation, and once they do, they go back and listen to that consumer hi-fi sound again, and they'll be able to hear all the flaws they couldn't before.
> 
> It's a gross misunderstanding to think that Isone Pro introduces "room modes." Isone Pro does not introduce room modes at all. What it simulates is the IDEAL acoustics of the Perfect room, meaning there are NO room modes. If you're unsure what room mode means, you should look it up. Room modes means there are anomalies and coloration due to sound wave build-ups in the room. Isone Pro does not try to introduce imperfections--it does the opposite, which is like an anechoic chamber, and has no room modes.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> I think it needs to be clarified that Isone Pro isn't "messing" with the frequency response. The change in frequency response is necessary in order for the effect to sound realistic--it's part of the HTRF feature. See, when you listen to speakers in a room, the way the sound waves interact with your head and ears will alter how the audio sounds than if you didn't have a head or ears. In other words, the shape of your head and ears will change how the audio sounds.
> 
> If you do this experiment, you'll see what I mean. Listen to anything, and then cup your hands behind your ears at an angle. Hear the immediate change in the frequency response? That's basically what your ears are doing, and in conjunction to the size/shape of your head, they change how the audio sounds. It is this very thing that Isone Pro emulates with its HTRF (Head Related Tranfers Functions) feature. When you listen to headphones, because the drivers are coming from the side and not from the front, there's no HTRF happening, thus the audio will not sound like a realistic emulation of speakers in front of you. Isone Pro reintroduces that back into the signal chain.
> 
> I have done experiments where I counter Isone Pro's alteration of the frequency response with an EQ, so that everything's perfect flat again, and you know what happened? The realism of the effect was destroyed. So in order to get that realistic effect, it's necessary to model realistically the HTRF response, which means to put your head and ears back into the headphone setting, so the audio can sound like speakers in a room. That's why the frequency response is changed, and it is only changed so it sounds like you have a head and ears interacting with speakers in a room. So, again, Isone Pro is not "messing" with the frequency response. It is simply modeling the human head and ears realistically so the illusion of listening to speakers in a room is convincing and natural.


 

 Correct and Toneboosters Isone, which is the product that's improved upon Isone Pro, does this even better. In even factors in the zone of confusion AFAIK. The zone of confusion is the narrow 5 degree 'v' right in the middle of the soundstage in which your brain cannot tell very easily whether the sound is in front of you or behind you. HRTF calibration is essential is to use Isone properly. You cannot leave it at the stock settings.


----------



## Mikesin

How do you install this?
   

 I've downloaded the trail pack,
 installed J River Media Player trial,
 I went to playback options, DSP options ,  VST and try to add the plugin , manage plugins, 
 Double clicked the 'TB_Isone.dll'
   
  Then comes up with 'Error      - Failed to install plug-in.'?
  What am i doing wrong, i want to try this out..


----------



## EZPZ

^
   
  Same here. I couldn't get it to work on Foobar either (using George Yohng's VST Wrapper). I'm perfectly able to install Electri-Q (posihfopit version) on both J River Media Player and Foobar though, so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
   
  EDIT: Originally I downloaded the 64-bit version, but I just tried the 32-bit version and it works.


----------



## Mikesin

Perfect, thanks!
  
  Quote: 





ezpz said:


> ^
> 
> Same here. I couldn't get it to work on Foobar either (using George Yohng's VST Wrapper). I'm perfectly able to install Electri-Q (posihfopit version) on both J River Media Player and Foobar though, so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
> 
> EDIT: Originally I downloaded the 64-bit version, but I just tried the 32-bit version and it works.


----------



## pbandstefanwich

For those of you that love/hate the plugin, what headphones are you using with it? I suspect that _might_ have a bearing on how much you like it, because I find I like it much more with some of my headphones than others (love it on my lambdas!). Also, I don't really like the room acoustics with some songs, but love it with others. I think it adds too much of a reverb on some music, especially female vocals. I suppose it does sound more like the singer is singing in a room with you, but a poorly dampened room at that because it echoes way too much for my tastes. Very nice effect in some cases (i.e. live recordings) but on a lot of my studio recordings the room acoustics sounds unnatural to me. I do enjoy the general plugin on all of my music though, haven't found any music that hasn't benefitted from it (in my humble opinion of course).


----------



## poico

TB IsoneSurround
   


   
  tested and approved!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   I'm using J. River, with great realism in audio 5.1ch


----------



## chinesekiwi

Jeroen can make ALOT of money off this licensing this stuff..I really dunno why he isn't vs. selling small-time.
  Licensing this to soundcard manufacturers, studio or consumer otherwise. Tweak it a little bit to be easier to use for the layman and it can EASILY be a direct competitor to the Sensaura / Aureal tech Creative have locked up. I'm sure he has all the legal copyright / patent documents covering this etc...


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> Jeroen can make ALOT of money off this licensing this stuff..I really dunno why he isn't vs. selling small-time.
> Licensing this to soundcard manufacturers, studio or consumer otherwise. Tweak it a little bit to be easier to use for the layman and it can EASILY be a direct competitor to the Sensaura / Aureal tech Creative have locked up. I'm sure he has all the legal copyright / patent documents covering this etc...


 

 He's made it very clear in conversations with me that he's only doing these audio plugins as a hobby. These are the plugins he uses in his personal life and he wrote them for himself, then decided he might as well share them with the public, but wanted to make them commercial product so he could get some monetary return for all the work he put into them (and probably also so people will take them more serious than if they were totally free). That's why they are priced so low and why he doesn't seem aggressive at all when it comes to updating them, improving them, listening to user suggestions...etc. He already has a day job as an audio professional, and that's his main career and money maker.


----------



## chinesekiwi

But he can make MORE money (particularly if say you even licence the naming of the product) ..but hey, of course, his decision in the end.
  It benefits his pocket and everyone via bigger mass adoption.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> But he can make MORE money (particularly if say you even licence the naming of the product) ..but hey, of course, his decision in the end.
> It benefits his pocket and everyone via bigger mass adoption.


 
   
  Why don't you email him and tell him that?


----------



## bassophile

Is there a free media player for Mac which will work with the Isone Pro?


----------



## d_headshot

Interesting thread guys! Do I dare dream that this will be implemented on a portable player in the future?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





d_headshot said:


> Interesting thread guys! Do I dare dream that this will be implemented on a portable player in the future?


 

 You can get an amp with crossfeed (Arrow, XM4, 5, & 6, Headroom Total Bithead or Portable Desktop) in the mean time.  I have an XM6.  Its not as good, but it keeps my brain from rattling apart due to much stereo separation.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





d_headshot said:


> Interesting thread guys! Do I dare dream that this will be implemented on a portable player in the future?


 

 Unfortunately, most crossfeeds, be it hardware or software, are simply just that--a crossfeed. They don't have the sophisticated HRTF algorithm, which is what actually creates the realistic simulation of listening to speakers place in front of your head. They also don't have the room simulation and speaker simulation either.


----------



## Vitor Machado

The only demo I can find is _TB_IsoneSurround_ with almost no settings available, is that right?
  And all it seems to do is make the music louder (dynamic compression) without any actual sound-stage benefit (using Audiophile setup, everything else just adds reverb). It actually sounds even more "in-your-face" than without it.
   
  Maybe the actual payware product is better, but I didn't like this demo at all. I'd rather use Bauer stereophonic-to-binaural DSP or Dolby Headphone...
   
  Am I missing something here? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  (using foobar2000 + George Yohng's VST wrapper, and normal stereo music)


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





vitor machado said:


> The only demo I can find is _TB_IsoneSurround_ with almost no settings available, is that right?


 

 No, the surround version is only for 5.1 surround material such as movies, games, or surround music. What you need is the regular version. There should be a regular version you can find online somewhere.


----------



## Vitor Machado

Ok thanks, it turns out I'm an idiot, it was supposed to be _TB_Isone_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  A lot better, but even after trying lots of different settings, it still doesn't sound as convincing as my carefully crafted Channel Mixer + Dolby Headphone setup (at least with my HD555).
  It's certainly less "wet" than DH, but perhaps for this reason the effect is not strong enough to justify it for me...


----------



## bassophile

bump - is there a free media player isone pro will work with on Mac?


----------



## Zida

I feel like I'm having much better luck getting a good tone with the new TB_Isone over the older Isone Pro. I haven't even started tweaking the settings yet.


----------



## edvardd

So I've got the TB Isone but I'm confused with the HRTF settings. It's  supposed to be important in order to get the best sound.
   
  I have ear size set at 55 and headsize at 70 % now.
   
  How do I go on to calibrate this?
   
  Ed


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





edvardd said:


> So I've got the TB Isone but I'm confused with the HRTF settings. It's  supposed to be important in order to get the best sound.
> 
> I have ear size set at 55 and headsize at 70 % now.
> 
> ...


 

 Did you read the user's manual? Or Jeroen still haven't made one yet for the new version? If not, you can ask him to send you the old user's manual for Isone Pro.


----------



## mangler

[size=medium]For any Mac users, you can also try Flux's HEar . Its also a binaural encoder, and it works on both Macs and PCs (Isone won't work on Pure Music, Play, or Apple's Logic DAW; at least as far as I can tell). Plus, the best part is that the FREE trial version simulates stereo; you only need to pay the $51 if you want to simulate surround sound on your headphones. It definitely colors the sound a bit, but its a lot of fun, and did I mention that it is FREE! ​[/size]


----------



## Zida

The manual can be found here http://www.toneboosters.com/manuals/TB_Isone.pdf

 Lunatique, I saw your post over on the latest head-fi tv thread. For one, great post, completely agree with everything I read. The reason I'm posting is I noticed you said that with Isone you got the sound to come from out in front of you.
   
  I've been liking the new Isone more than Isone Pro because I find that it has almost no effect on the frequency response of the signal, but I have been having trouble getting the sound to really come from out in front like I did with the Pro. I've sort of just achieved nice crossfeed with some subtle room reverb. I wanted to ask you how you like to go about calibrating the software (if you have anything to share beyond what the manual says), and if you find you have better experience with certain kinds of headphones . I'm still enjoying and using the software, but I know it has a lot more to offer.

 Thanks


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





zida said:


> The manual can be found here http://www.toneboosters.com/manuals/TB_Isone.pdf
> 
> Lunatique, I saw your post over on the latest head-fi tv thread. For one, great post, completely agree with everything I read. The reason I'm posting is I noticed you said that with Isone you got the sound to come from out in front of you.
> 
> ...


 

 I actually scrutinized the frequency response before and after both Isone Pro and Isone, and they both alter the frequency response noticeably, just differently in terms which frequencies. But that is not a bad thing at all, because that's what HRTF is all about. In the real world, your head and ears will alter the frequency response of everything you hear, so if you play a pink noise or a log sweep, even if they measure perfectly flat by equipment, you will not hear them as perfectly flat, since your head and ears will introduce frequency alterations. HRTF algorithm replicates this phenomenon, and that is why it sounds so natural and realistic. Without altering the frequency response, then realism will be destroyed and it won't sound nearly as natural.
   
  I have tried tweaking based on the user's manual's instructions, but I discovered that the default setting works very well with my own head and ear sizes, so I don't really need to tweak any further. The only change I make is to change the speaker distance to match my reference monitors' position in relation to my listening spot. Personally, I prefer Isone Pro over TB Isone because it just sounds more natural and dynamic to me.


----------



## Zida

Yea, I should really amend what I said. Isone definitely changes the frequency response, but I feel like it does it in a way and to a smaller degree such that I would expect something like a room simulator to. In my position Isone Pro feels like it just takes it too far (though IME so far works better!). 

 I would guess that people's satisfaction with the FR of Isone Pro depends on what headphones they're using, and whether their already non-flat response can take that change without getting unpleasant. IMO it doesn't work well with an unequalized HE-6. Have you had better success with some headphones over others?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





zida said:


> Yea, I should really amend what I said. Isone definitely changes the frequency response


 

 If you leave it at the default settings. You *must* configure all versions of Isone to the frequency response graph of your headphones. Mine are DT880 600ohms.
   

   
  vs. the Headroom graph
   

   
  Of course the frequency response will slightly change with the headphone positioning on your head but that's a factor you can control.
  You must also configure the HRTF sections to your head. Leaving it at default settings defeats the point of Isone. Tweeter size doesn't really matter if you aren't shifting it more than the 30 degrees default, which is standard for nearfield studio monitors. I changed it to 25mm tweeters anyway as high-end studio monitors like Adams use 25mm tweeters. *Remember Isone is not a crossfeed for headphones, it is a studio monitor emulation software for headphones.* Most music don't have below 30Hz and above 14kHz tones so the dropoff is fine. There is a slight tradeoff in the subbass that I will have to fix.


----------



## Volta

Anyone else finding that this works wayyyy better with neutral/EQ'd-to-neutral headphones?


----------



## Nightslayer

Can someone post a layman's description of what each knob does? I don't quite hear a very audible difference when I adjust either the head or ear sizes, on the Calibrate me! preset. Also, I still don't seem to be able to shake the in-the-head feeling with anything other than the laptop speaker simulation and the "the next room" simulation, and both of those degrade the sound beyond belief so they're not viable options, sadly.


----------



## edvardd

Personally I use the preset "small ears, large head" with 100 % HRTF and set the room to "small studio".


----------



## bluemonkeyflyer

Which audio host program is best for use with MacBook Pro?  Am I correct that J.River is only compatible with Windows?  What about Fidelia, Audacity, others?  I am not looking for a free program; only the best that will work seamlessly with Isone and my MacBook Pro.
   
  Thanks for any help.


----------



## mangler

Quote: 





bluemonkeyflyer said:


> Which audio host program is best for use with MacBook Pro?  Am I correct that J.River is only compatible with Windows?  What about Fidelia, Audacity, others?  I am not looking for a free program; only the best that will work seamlessly with Isone and my MacBook Pro.
> 
> Thanks for any help.


 
   

 [size=medium]I really like Pure Music, and you can download a 15-day trial version. The only downside is that you can't use Isone Pro with it. Apple doesn't' support VST plug-ins (like Isone Pro), but it does support AU plugins (as far as I know). Ircam's HEar plug-in seems similar to Isone Pro, but it comes as an AU plug-in, so you can use it with Pure Music. Plus, the trial version of HEar already simulates stereo speakers, as opposed to the full version, which simulates surround sound (~$50 for the full version). So, if you're just listening to music, then you only need the trial version, which isn't time-bombed (i.e. it doesn't expire after a certain amount of time), so its like getting an advanced crossfeed for free! Anyway, you can try both Pure Music and HEar for free, for at least 15 days, to see if you like it or not
   ​[/size]


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mangler said:


> [size=medium]I really like Pure Music, and you can download a 15-day trial version. The only downside is that you can't use Isone Pro with it. Apple doesn't' support VST plug-ins (like Isone Pro), but it does support AU plugins (as far as I know). Ircam's HEar plug-in seems similar to Isone Pro, but it comes as an AU plug-in, so you can use it with Pure Music. Plus, the trial version of HEar already simulates stereo speakers, as opposed to the full version, which simulates surround sound (~$50 for the full version). So, if you're just listening to music, then you only need the trial version, which isn't time-bombed (i.e. it doesn't expire after a certain amount of time), so its like getting an advanced crossfeed for free! Anyway, you can try both Pure Music and HEar for free, for at least 15 days, to see if you like it or not
> ​[/size]


 

 I tried to use the Isone VST plugins with Audio Hijack Pro for Mac, which supports AU and VST plugins, but I can't get the Isone plugins to open.  I can get the Canz 3D VST plugin to open, so I know the app is working fine.


----------



## zlobby

Is there anyway that this program or similar can be used in conjunction with an ipod?  Mine is running rockbox right now.


----------



## justie

is anyone able to use isonesurround with media player classic? curious as how it will work out


----------



## d8n0g

I wonder if you could help me getting this plugin installed?

   

  I am using foobar 2000 and it doesn't even see the .dll

  I have cubase and a couple other programs that take plugins and I have never in my life had so much trouble   I do appreciate your time...

   

  Also, as for jriver what other plugins are you using with isone?  I'm using volume and output

   

  **edit**

  didn't notice the vst tray


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





d8n0g said:


> I wonder if you could help me getting this plugin installed?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Make sure you are using the right version. There's a 32-bit and 64-bit version of Isone, and they are not labelled accordingly in the .dll. You have to rename the .dll to the right version so you can identify them, and then use the right one with whatever your VST host can handle. Not all VST hosts can recognize 64-bit plugins.


----------



## Tetsuma

I had problems with foobar detecting the 64x versions. Swapped over to the 32bit version, restarted foobar and it was there.


----------



## d8n0g

how exactly do you string vst's together in foobar?  Can anyone recommend a free one?


----------



## Adda

I have tried this vst with my DF's and all it does is make everything sound monophonic and dull, without this vst they sound much more like speakers, must be the diffuse field equalization doing it's job.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





adda said:


> I have tried this vst with my DF's and all it does is make everything sound monophonic and dull, without this vst they sound much more like speakers, must be the diffuse field equalization doing it's job.


 

 That sounds so far from what I hear that I have to wonder if you are using the plugin correctly, with the right calibrated settings. The guy who designed/coded it is a DSP expert and highly experienced audio professional, so it's not like he doesn't know what he's doing at a very high level.


----------



## Adda

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> That sounds so far from what I hear that I have to wonder if you are using the plugin correctly, with the right calibrated settings. The guy who designed/coded it is a DSP expert and highly experienced audio professional, so it's not like he doesn't know what he's doing at a very high level.


 

 I fiddled around with the plugin for an hour or so, the stereo image changes from being a panorama to being a ball inside my head.
  I think the problem is that my DF's already sound like speakers, so putting a layer of speaker simulation on top of that yields poor results.
  It could be that I didn't take the time with that plugin, but the stereo image is not the only thing it messes up, it doesn't sound real at all.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





adda said:


> I fiddled around with the plugin for an hour or so, the stereo image changes from being a panorama to being a ball inside my head.
> I think the problem is that my DF's already sound like speakers, so putting a layer of speaker simulation on top of that yields poor results.
> It could be that I didn't take the time with that plugin, but the stereo image is not the only thing it messes up, it doesn't sound real at all.


 

 Did you follow the instructions in the user's manual? Did you try music that's got dramatic stereo separation--the kind that really annoys most headphone users, and caused mixing and mastering engineers to advocate against doing critical audio work on headphones all these decades (and the reason for Isone to exist in the first place--to finally remedy that problem for audio professionals)? 
   
  Here, try this short clip (demo clip for a Waldorf synthesizer) with and without Isone--you'll hear a dramatic difference, and you'll understand better why Isone was created in the first place: http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality_website/temp/Kamm'on_128Kbps.mp3
   
  Without Isone, the stereo separation is very unnatural and extreme, but with Isone, it actually sounds like speakers placed in front of you, and it's very natural and realistic sounding. 
   
  For those that don't want to spend too much time tweaking, I find that for me, if you set the preset for speaker cabinet to flat, and the Room preset to Nearfield or Midfield, it gives a really good result. No need to mess with anything else, unless you have unique shaped/sized head/ears. (BTW, I'm talking about TB Isone. I used to prefer Isone Pro, but with the later update of TB Isone putting back the stuff that was initially taken out from Isone Pro, I'm fine with TB Isone.)


----------



## Adda

Well I tried it out again, this time TB Isone rather then Isone pro, but the result is pretty much the same.
  Listening to the file you sent, I see what you mean, but I don't need Isone to get the illusion of speakers, Isone basically just places the "virtual speakers" closer together.
  It messes up my headphone frequency response and clarity as well, I get less bass, the bass sounds muddy, the mids get recessed and I get blurry fuzzy highs.
  I tried the settings you recommend and I tried to see if I could improve it a bit, but in the end, it just sounds monophonic and dull.


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





adda said:


> Well I tried it out again, this time TB Isone rather then Isone pro, but the result is pretty much the same.
> Listening to the file you sent, I see what you mean, but I don't need Isone to get the illusion of speakers, Isone basically just places the "virtual speakers" closer together.
> It messes up my headphone frequency response and clarity as well, I get less bass, the bass sounds muddy, the mids get recessed and I get blurry fuzzy highs.
> I tried the settings you recommend and I tried to see if I could improve it a bit, but in the end, it just sounds monophonic and dull.


 

 I fully agree with you, I have been using VSTs for a pretty long time before I got on Head-fi due to a friend's advice. I find listening with Isone very fun but eventually the muddiness in bass, clipping and resulting loss in SQ not worth it to use. I eventually settled with Redline monitor a few months back and I'm very happy with it.
   
  But for those still interested, my favourite settings from the time I was playing with it on my friend's computer, is Hifi speakes nearfield with the appropriate head/ear size settings.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





adda said:


> Well I tried it out again, this time TB Isone rather then Isone pro, but the result is pretty much the same.
> Listening to the file you sent, I see what you mean, but I don't need Isone to get the illusion of speakers, Isone basically just places the "virtual speakers" closer together.
> It messes up my headphone frequency response and clarity as well, I get less bass, the bass sounds muddy, the mids get recessed and I get blurry fuzzy highs.
> I tried the settings you recommend and I tried to see if I could improve it a bit, but in the end, it just sounds monophonic and dull.


 

 I think you might have to unlearn some of the biases and misinformation you've picked up in your life so far, and learn a bit more about the science of acoustics in order to understand and appreciate what Isone does. For example, there's no way in hell that any headphone is capable of a natural sounding stereo imaging unless some kind of crossfeed is used. It doesn't matter how the headphone is designed and how it tries to angle towards your ears or use housing that sounds more open and natural--the left and right channels are totally separated, period. It's simple science, and it's the reason why audio professionals have always advocated against doing critical mixes and masters on headphones. That is why some headphone amps have crossfeed features, or plugins like Redline Monitor and Isone exist. Crossfeeds allow both channels to feed a bit of itself into the other channel, thus mimicking how we hear speakers in real life, and Isone is a much more sophisticated algorithm that models the HRTF (Head Related Transfer Function) as well as models speaker cabinets and rooms. The result is far more realistic than a simple crossfeed. 
   
  Also, I already explained the frequency thing in a previous post, but you probably didn't read it, so I'll explain it again. You need to understand how acoustics work in real life. Any time sound is produces in a room, it will interact with the room and then interact with your head and your ears. Just by having a head and ears physically, you are already altering the frequency response of any sound that is reproduced in a room and what you hear with your ear drums is the altered version, not the version that is actually played by the speakers. What Isone does is to model that HRTF alteration realistically, as if your headphones are speakers playing in a room. The frequency response change Isone introduces is NECESSARY in order to make your headphones sound like speakers in a room and you are listening with a physical head and ears. If it didn't alter the frequency response, then there would be no emulation of HRTF, and your headphone will sound if your ear drums are just floating in a room without a head or ears. That would be far less natural sounding--I think you'd agree. 
   
  So essentially, what you hear through Isone is how your headphones will actually sound like if they were played as speakers in a room, and you listening with a physical head and a pair of ears. You can't possibly expect your headphone's sound to not change when you use them as speakers in a room--it's scientifically impossible.
   
  You might also want to double-check your VST host isn't causing strange distortions. I've had that happen before. Use a rock-solid VST host--preferably one that audio professionals are likely to use.
   
  If you want to Isone without the HRTF and room simulation features, you can simply turn them off, set the speaker cabinet preset to flat, and use it as a standard crossfeed. 
   
  Quote: 





firev1 said:


> I eventually settled with Redline monitor a few months back and I'm very happy with it.


 
   
  For people who don't want the realism of HRTF or speaker cabinet and room simulations, Redline Monitor is a great choice, since it's just strictly a crossfeed. But considering  Isone can do the same thing as Redline Monitor if you simply turned off the HRTF and room simulation and use it as just a crossfeed, while paying far less money (Redline Monitor costs 5 times more than Isone, but only has 1/3 of its features), I think Isone is the no-brainer choice. I got Redline Monitor before I had learned of Isone, and if I had found Isone first, I would never have gotten Redline Monitor.


----------



## Adda

Well, as far as I can see, I have not been biased at all, I have just used my ears.
  My DF's have not always had such a natural presentation, it came once I got the Aragon 18k.
   
  If the plugin changes the frequency response on purpose that is enough for me to run far away, the DF's a almost perfectly balanced as it is, changing them would only do them harm.
  I do not want to trade accuracy, detail and clarity for a narrower stereo field.
  I do understand what crossfeed is all about, and it might have been good if it where not so invasive, a poorly voiced headphone with a split op, one side or the other ultra wide, way of imaging might benefit, but for the DF's it's a disaster.
   
  I use FL Studio is my VST handler, I have used FL Studio for 10 years so I definitely know what I'm doing AND what I'm hearing.
   
  Setting  the cabinet to different settings just messes up the frequency response in a different ways.
  I do have speakers as well, some pretty damn good ones too, the tweeters are better then... well, I haven't heard anything they didn't humiliate, planars, domes you name it.
  I grew up with these speakers, and they don't sound like my DF's do with Isone, they have a wider stereo field and sound clear, I don't expect them to have the same frequency response because my speakers are not particularly accurate below 2400Hz.
  But why oh why does Isone insist on making the treble sound like it comes out of cheap EIM's, the VLD-12's in my speakers DO NOT sound this way, without Isone my DF's highs sound a lot more like my VLD's.
   
  I'll soon be rebuilding my speakers (if all goes well) they will be converted to a two way system with VLD-12 + FF225WK in the existing 50l bass reflex cabinet.
   
  I trust the German Institute of Technoligy's approach more then some software crossfeed filter (taken form AKG website):
  Quote: 





> With their flat frequency response, these headphones provide an uncolored sound. The diffuse-field equalized K 240 DF meets not only the stringent criteria of the IRT standard but those of professional sound engineers as well.
> Created to fulfill the international IRT specification, the K 240 DF establishes a uniform quality standard free from environmental variables. In fixed apposition to the ears, the sound output quality is unchanging and reliable – as opposed to loudspeaker monitors, sound from which is markedly influenced and colored by variations in control room architecture and furnishings.


 
   
  If trusting a different approach means I'm biased, then you are just as biased as I am...

  
  Quote: 





lunatique said:


> I think you might have to unlearn some of the biases and misinformation you've picked up in your life so far, and learn a bit more about the science of acoustics in order to understand and appreciate what Isone does. For example, there's no way in hell that any headphone is capable of a natural sounding stereo imaging unless some kind of crossfeed is used. It doesn't matter how the headphone is designed and how it tries to angle towards your ears or use housing that sounds more open and natural--the left and right channels are totally separated, period. It's simple science, and it's the reason why audio professionals have always advocated against doing critical mixes and masters on headphones. That is why some headphone amps have crossfeed features, or plugins like Redline Monitor and Isone exist. Crossfeeds allow both channels to feed a bit of itself into the other channel, thus mimicking how we hear speakers in real life, and Isone is a much more sophisticated algorithm that models the HRTF (Head Related Transfer Function) as well as models speaker cabinets and rooms. The result is far more realistic than a simple crossfeed.
> 
> 
> Also, I already explained the frequency thing in a previous post, but you probably didn't read it, so I'll explain it again. You need to understand how acoustics work in real life. Any time sound is produces in a room, it will interact with the room and then interact with your head and your ears. Just by having a head and ears physically, you are already altering the frequency response of any sound that is reproduced in a room and what you hear with your ear drums is the altered version, not the version that is actually played by the speakers. What Isone does is to model that HRTF alteration realistically, as if your headphones are speakers playing in a room. The frequency response change Isone introduces is NECESSARY in order to make your headphones sound like speakers in a room and you are listening with a physical head and ears. If it didn't alter the frequency response, then there would be no emulation of HRTF, and your headphone will sound if your ear drums are just floating in a room without a head or ears. That would be far less natural sounding--I think you'd agree.
> ...


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





adda said:


> If the plugin changes the frequency response on purpose that is enough for me to run far away, the DF's a almost perfectly balanced as it is, changing them would only do them harm.
> I do not want to trade accuracy, detail and clarity for a narrower stereo field.


 

 It appears you still aren't quite understanding what I've explained to you. 
   
  1) What Isone does is not to make the stereo field narrower than what's natural, it's your headphone that's making the stereo field unnaturally wide. All headphones have this problem--including your DF's. This is an inherent problem with all headphones, regardless of whether they are open, closed, IEM's, whatever. When there's a skull placed between your two ears and sound cannot easily reach from one side to the other ear, you will get unnatural stereo separation. What Isone does is to fix this problem by making it sound natural again. It is NOT to make stereo field "worse" somehow or undesirably narrower. It is to make it BETTER by making it less severe and unnatural. 
   
  2) Frequency response change isn't inherently bad. For example every time you use a reverb, you are changing the frequency response of the track you're working on, because reverbs have to introduce damping in order to simulate how sound interacts with a physical space--it is necessary to create the illusion of a physical space. This is the same kind of principle I explained previous of how Isone needs to model how your headphones would sound in a physical space while interacting with your head and ears--it is a scientific necessity. 
   
  3) The change that Isone makes to the frequency response of your DF's isn't "harming" anything. It is simply putting your DF's into a simulated physical space where your head and ears are accounted for. You head and ears automatically introduce frequency response changes because it is part of your physiology. The ONLY way you can have your DF's sound exactly the same as a pair of speakers in a room as they do as a pair of headphones on your head, is if you rip out your ear drums and have them floating in space, completely detached from your head. But then you'd be deaf, wouldn't you? You NEED your head and ears to be able to hear. You can't change that scientific fact.
   
  I don't know if you are understanding this, but all of this is true even when it comes to ultra-expensive hardware units like the Smyth Research Realiser. This is going to be true even if the audio geniuses around the world got together and designed a unit that costs 10 millions dollars. HRTF is part of laws of physics, period. So if you listened to the 10 million dollar unit designed by geniuses, are you still going to say that it's "harming" your DF's frequency response and stereo field? 
   
  Bottomline is this: As soon as you TRY to make your headphones sound like speakers in a realistic physical environment, it WILL change the frequency response of your headphone, no matter if it's a plugin, a hardware unit, or how cheap, expensive, the product is. This is not something Isone is doing "wrong,"--it is simply the laws of physics. 
   
  If you don't want that, then don't bother with HRTF algorithms, period. Just don't use them at all and stick to simple crossfeeds, or turn the HRTF feature off, along with any room and cabinet simulation. Just set the cabinet to flat, and Isone becomes a simple crossfeed.


----------



## Adda

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> It appears you still aren't quite understanding what I've explained to you.
> 
> 1) What Isone does is not to make the stereo field narrower than what's natural, it's your headphone that's making the stereo field unnaturally wide. All headphones have this problem--including your DF's. This is an inherent problem with all headphones, regardless of whether they are open, closed, IEM's, whatever. When there's a skull placed between your two ears and sound cannot easily reach from one side to the other ear, you will get unnatural stereo separation. What Isone does is to fix this problem by making it sound natural again. It is NOT to make stereo field "worse" somehow or undesirably narrower. It is to make it BETTER by making it less severe and unnatural.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lunatique

Can someone else with a pair of K240DF confirm that it is so uniquely different from all the other headphones out there that Isone would cease to do its job properly and really mess up the sound? I find this so highly unlikely that I pretty much categorize it under "impossible," but never say never because anything is possible in this world. 
   
  @Adda the differences between the frequency response of your track with and without Isone shouldn't be so drastic. Remember, Isone is merely modeling how your headphones would actually sound if they were transformed into speakers and placed in a physical space. So if we were to look at this concept in reverse, it would be like:
   
  If we took a pair of perfectly flat sounding speakers and then reversed the process so they sound like headphones on your head, then the reverse process would also alter the frequency response to make the speakers sound like headphones (which mean subtracting the effects of HRTF in the simulation). This is necessary in the translation process between headphones and speakers and is unavoidable.  
   
  So in terms of working with Isone in your monitoring chain, you simply bypass it during export, and you'll be fine. There should be no need to do more tweaking to "compensate" for the effects of Isone. Remember, what you are hearing with Isone is no longer your headphones, but how your headphones would sound if they became a pair of speakers interacting with your head and ears. 
   
  BTW, I have contact Jeroen (the DSP expert behind Isone) and asked him to come and take a look and see if he could help clear some things up. He'll be able to provide really high level explanations, and also explain how Isone works internally.


----------



## Adda

Lets see if someone with DF's can test it out and then take the more theoretic discussion from there, if no one come along we can agree that we have different preferences.
  I cannot deny that I might be so tuned in to my DF's that I'm hearing things, but this has not been the case in the past.
  Quote: 





lunatique said:


> So in terms of working with Isone in your monitoring chain, you simply bypass it during export, and you'll be fine. There should be no need to do more tweaking to "compensate" for the effects of Isone. Remember, what you are hearing with Isone is no longer your headphones, but how your headphones would sound if they became a pair of speakers interacting with your head and ears.


 

 But this is not the case, if I tune the sound to fit with Isone, and then disable Isone, everything sounds wrong because the frequency response has changed, not by a bit, but quite a lot.
  The other way around it's the same, if I enable Isone on my existing material, I loose bass and gain treble, that would make my mixes too warm if I used Isone and then disabled it.
  When using Isone I would have to forget about really tuning my samples, because I wouldn't be hearing what they really sound like, well unless I disabled Isone.
  I could of cause enable or disable Isone depending on what I'm doing, but I don't see what I'd gain.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





adda said:


> But this is not the case, if I tune the sound to fit with Isone, and then disable Isone, everything sounds wrong because the frequency response has changed, not by a bit, but quite a lot.
> The other way around it's the same, if I enable Isone on my existing material, I loose bass and gain treble, that would make my mixes too warm if I used Isone and then disabled it.
> When using Isone I would have to forget about really tuning my samples, because I wouldn't be hearing what they really sound like, well unless I disabled Isone.
> I could of cause enable or disable Isone depending on what I'm doing, but I don't see what I'd gain.


 

  Let's see what Jeroen says when/if he makes an appearance in this thread. I emailed him like ten minutes ago, and I hope he's not too busy to make his way back into this thread like he had in the past (if you haven't read this thread in its entirety, you've probably missed his posts). He's one of those experts who's forgotten more about acoustics and DSP processing than we have ever learned combined, and Isone being his baby, he'll be able to explain it fully to you and help you figure out what the problem is. All I know is that I have absolutely no problem with Isone using any of the headphones in my collection.


----------



## deadlylover

Lunatique, diffuse field equalized headphones are quite rare, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't work well with Isone Pro as the headphones are already tuned to sound like you are listening to speakers..
   
  Of course, it isn't perfect as there is no crossfeed effect, but yeah, it's quite peculiar.


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> For people who don't want the realism of HRTF or speaker cabinet and room simulations, Redline Monitor is a great choice, since it's just strictly a crossfeed. But considering  Isone can do the same thing as Redline Monitor if you simply turned off the HRTF and room simulation and use it as just a crossfeed, while paying far less money (Redline Monitor costs 5 times more than Isone, but only has 1/3 of its features), I think Isone is the no-brainer choice. I got Redline Monitor before I had learned of Isone, and if I had found Isone first, I would never have gotten Redline Monitor.


 

 Going to try this tomorrow night, will post my evaluations later. If what you say were right then, damn.......
   
  EDIT: Just tried it again because I did not feel like sleeping.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





deadlylover said:


> Lunatique, diffuse field equalized headphones are quite rare, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't work well with Isone Pro as the headphones are already tuned to sound like you are listening to speakers..
> 
> Of course, it isn't perfect as there is no crossfeed effect, but yeah, it's quite peculiar.


 

 Even if so, Adda could just turn off the room simulation, set the speaker cabinet to flat, and also turn off the HRTF, which turns Isone into just a crossfeed. From his posts, it seems he did try that and still found Isone very strange (unless I read his posts wrong)? 
   
  Adda, can you confirm this? Did you try turning off the HRTF and Room simulation features, and then set the speaker simulation preset to Flat?


----------



## Adda

With HRTF disabled it's just bassy rather then bright.
   
  Edit: It reminds me of how a K242HD sounds.


----------



## Adda

I get the best results form Flat, nearfield HRTF off, but it still gives med a weird balance and compressed soundstage, also a midbass hump K242HD style.
  It doesn't solve the lack of clarity.


----------



## RexAeterna

is this VST free to try? i defiantly give it a try and test it out. i have to agree with adda as well about the Df's be closest you get to speaker like soundstage accuracy. i tried doby,eax,crossfeeding DSP's,ect. with them and tend to make them sound unrealistic. if this vst is anything a like it will probably do the same. i'll give it a test and see how it is.


----------



## Adda

It is free to try yes, you just can't save your own presets.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





adda said:


> With HRTF disabled it's just bassy rather then bright.
> 
> Edit: It reminds me of how a K242HD sounds.


 

 HRTF strength was at 0%? Did you turn off the Room Designer too? Set the speaker preset to Flat? Also, did you check the CSC (Crosstalk Spectrum Compensation), which turns on and off the low-pass filter of the cross-feed signal in the low frequencies?


----------



## firev1

Okay, turned off room designer, CSC and HRFT. Set speakers to flat and 45 deg, I don't know why but Isone tends to clip, I have no such problems with Redline monitor. Open to suggestions if I did anything wrong. Using media center like you too Lunatique.


----------



## Adda

Yup I have been through it all, HRTF 0% yes that's what I meant by it being off.
  It sounds best with CSC enabled, but set to around 50%


----------



## RexAeterna

i tested it out real quick in fl studio with my own stuff and some other music i had but so far from quick experimenting it actually muddies up the soundstage and imagery on my 240DF's or it expands it too unrealistic where the midrange suffers quite a bit and sounds unnatural. i haven't tried other headphones yet but i will later on. it just sounds too unnatural on my 240DF's.


----------



## Adda

Maybe Diffuse Field equalized headphones _are_ different.


----------



## RexAeterna

adda said:


> Yup I have been through it all, HRTF 0% yes that's what I meant by it being off.
> It sounds best with CSC enabled, but set to around 50%




i tried that as well with many other presents and so forth but no matter what it still sounds unnatural to me but i find it best set to flat,anechoic chamber,csc and hrtf to 0 but i will experiment more later. i even found the surround sound emulation unrealistic for stereo listening on my 240DF's.


----------



## RexAeterna

adda said:


> Maybe Diffuse Field equalized headphones _are_ different.




that can be it. i think also reason why from my experience with DSP's for gaming and music my 240DF's tend to be unchanged or tends to sound very unnatural with everything i tried.


----------



## Adda

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> that can be it. i think also reason why from my experience with DSP's for gaming and music my 240DF's tend to be unchanged or tends to sound very unnatural with everything i tried.


 


  But gaming with the DF's au naturel is is wonderful experience, if the game has good sound (Fallout 3!)


----------



## d8n0g

I agree with it sounding unnatural which leads me to believe i am doing something wrong. In isone pro what are the best settings for denon d2000 i.e. crossfeed on/off, etc. I have my xonar on hf, and can anyone recommend opamps to suit my new denons?


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





firev1 said:


> Okay, turned off room designer, CSC and HRFT. Set speakers to flat and 45 deg, I don't know why but Isone tends to clip, I have no such problems with Redline monitor. Open to suggestions if I did anything wrong. Using media center like you too Lunatique.


 

 Do you have anything else activated in the DSP Studio?


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> Do you have anything else activated in the DSP Studio?


 


  Only activated EasyQ and Output sampling which resamples only music with less than 44.1khz which I have only a few(not included in evaluation).


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





firev1 said:


> Only activated EasyQ and Output sampling which resamples only music with less than 44.1khz which I have only a few(not included in evaluation).


 

 Did you alter the global gain in EasyQ? Does Isone still clip if you deactivate everything except Isone (including Volume Leveling, if you have it on by default).
   
  Also, does Isone clip in the original default setting, or did it start to clip after you started customizing the settings?
   
  And does rebooting MC or the computer change anything?
   
  In the past, I've sometimes had Isone Pro distort on me or just drop the audio altogether, and restarting MC always took care of it, but I haven't had that problem with TB Isone (though I haven't used TB Isone as long as Isone Pro).
   ​
   
  Quote: 





adda said:


> It sounds best with CSC enabled, but set to around 50%


 

 CSC is only on and off. I think you were looking at the Head size adjustment's 50.0% readout?
   
  Quote: 





adda said:


> Maybe Diffuse Field equalized headphones _are_ different.


 

 AFAIK, they are only different in their frequency response, as they were designed to sound like flat speakers in a room, instead of flat speakers in an anechoic chamber. So theoretically, if you disabled the Room Designer and turned off the HRTF, then set the speaker preset to Flat, Isone should simply act like a crossfeed (though there is still a bit of frequency alteration and is not perfectly flat--I think that's built into Isone's internal algorithm). 
   
  Have you tried Redline Monitor? If not, you should download it and try it and see if it's any different. It is more flat than Isone in my past testing with a pink noise, but it doesn't sound nearly as realistic as Isone.


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> Did you alter the global gain in EasyQ? Does Isone still clip if you deactivate everything except Isone (including Volume Leveling, if you have it on by default).
> 
> Also, does Isone clip in the original default setting, or did it start to clip after you started customizing the settings?
> 
> ...


 

 Deactivated everything in DSP except TB Isone. Still slightly noticeable clipping in The Players' album and very noticeable in some of my game soundtracks like http://youtu.be/Rdhrp-T_vOs Have no such problems in Redline monitor. Global gain is 0 db  and my normal settings is just EasyQ and Output Format. I notice also that TB Isone tends to overflow a lot more than Redline monitor even when set to Flat with room designer, HRFT and CSC turned off.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Anyway to negate the overflow, ReplayGain your tracks people.
  Anyway, you need to really understand room acoustics to use this properly.
  Once you do, it is outstandingly good at nearfield monitor replication, which is TB Isone's intention.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





firev1 said:


> Deactivated everything in DSP except TB Isone. Still slightly noticeable clipping in The Players' album and very noticeable in some of my game soundtracks like http://youtu.be/Rdhrp-T_vOs Have no such problems in Redline monitor. Global gain is 0 db  and my normal settings is just EasyQ and Output Format. I notice also that TB Isone tends to overflow a lot more than Redline monitor even when set to Flat with room designer, HRFT and CSC turned off.


 

 I think you probably should ask Jeroen himself, since I never really had that kind of problem. You could also try the J River forums.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





firev1 said:


> Okay, turned off room designer, CSC and HRFT. Set speakers to flat and 45 deg, I don't know why but Isone tends to clip, I have no such problems with Redline monitor. Open to suggestions if I did anything wrong. Using media center like you too Lunatique.


 


  so you like killing your treble.....
   
  you must set the tweeter size to 10mm to you don't want to kill it at 45 deg.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> so you like killing your treble.....
> 
> you must set the tweeter size to 10mm to you don't want to kill it at 45 deg.


 

 I think he meant the speaker angle, not the tweeter size?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> I think he meant the speaker angle, not the tweeter size?


 

 With a larger tweeter size, the treble is affected more when listening from an angle psychoacoustically.


----------



## firev1

Thanks for the tips guys, will ask around for answers hopefully I can get it working eventually.


----------



## JeroenB

It's great to see that you guys are experimenting a lot and providing a lot of interesting information on Isone... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Let me try to clarify a couple of things.
   
  Isone was developed with the sound engineer in mind, to allow him/her to mix on conventional headphones, with low latency, and to verify how a mix transposes on different speakers.
  Therefore, some design choices were made, such as
   
  (1) no integration of a peak limiter / clipping prevention to maintain zero latency
 (peak limiters need look ahead and therefore create delay), and to allow engineers
  to use their own, favorite limiter.
   
  (2) Optimization for headphones with a 'flat' frequency response (although this is
 technically not possible).
   
  Concerning the clipping observations: yes, if you feed Isone with full-scale signals,
  the modifications introduced by Isone may result in clipping. To resolve this
  you can turn-down the 'level' knob in the room designer, this will lower the level
  of the virtual speaker, creating more digital headroom. Alternatively, you can
  plug in your favorite limiter as post-process to Isone, or use the free Isone Surround
 which does have an integrated peak limiter.
   
  For diffuse-field EQd headphones the results are depending on the EQ curve
  that the manufacturer implemented. In principle, these headphones are compensated
  for the timbral changes that are introduced by a diffuse sound field (think of it
  as average response from all directions). This is closely linked to the (inverse) frequency
  response of reverberation (and this is often how these equalization curves are computed).
   
  The specific equalization for diffuse field depends on a lot on the measurement
  conditions (the dummy head that was used, the reverb chamber, design choices of the manufacturer, and so on).
  Depending on the brand/type, the equalization applied in a headphone may interfere
  with Isone's simulation of similar attributes. I'd recommend to test it first, or use
 'conventional' headphones instead. This is what Isone was designed for.


----------



## firev1

Thanks Jeroen that really helped in answering some questions, thanks Lunatique and chinesekiwi for the help, it feels somewhat weird but I'm enjoying Isone again :3 Solved the problem by reducing output signal by 2db. Thanks Lunatique and chinesewiki for the suggestions too


----------



## RexAeterna

jeroenb said:


> For diffuse-field EQd headphones the results are depending on the EQ curve
> that the manufacturer implemented. In principle, these headphones are compensated
> for the timbral changes that are introduced by a diffuse sound field (think of it
> as average response from all directions). This is closely linked to the (inverse) frequency
> ...





the DF's and sextetts use a 4-core cable and ground cable on each driver so using separate ground wires eliminates or greatly reduces crosstalk and crosstalk is something you don't want that's why i never understood feeding a crossfeed to pair of speakers or headphones. reason behind speakers having better soundstage as well is not only better dispersion patterns and drivers is cause the negative and positive outputs are grounded to eliminate or prevent crosstalking. reason why more conventional and modern audiophile headphones might benefit from DSP uses like this vst is cause they only have a shared ground connector which is more prone to crosstalking so stereo separation might not end up correct. another reason why certain specially equalized headphones for monitor use is not affected.

even earspeakers won't benefit from this vst since most stax and other electrostatics are free-field equalized instead of diffused field. only dynamic headphone i know that is free-field equalized are the sextetts but akg calls it ''free-field natural hearing''. only diffused field headphones i know of are the beyer dt48S and discontinued akg 240DF. the DF's are considered the best diffused field headphone around but then again i never heard the beyer dt48S

i really enjoy the vst tho. very fun and useful for many people. i like how well it's integrated and easy to use so anyone could pick it up and play around with it most likely.


----------



## sphinxvc

Cool plug in.  Definitely a keeper.  I'm noticing less fatigue as the musical details aren't as in my face/head with this enabled -- I'm not entirely sure what to make of the change in frequency response though.  I know Isone is the one doing the processing but keeping the plug in enabled is what sounds more natural.


----------



## disastermouse

Can anyone help me?  I downloaded the trial of Fidelia and the trial of TBisone and I can't get Fidelia to 'find' the VST plugins - or ANY VST plugins.  It's not in the preferences or in the menu anywhere.


----------



## sphinxvc

Mac users: if you're not able to get your AU/VST hosts to recognize the TB_Isone VST use *this* VST/AU wrapper.  It's free and open source and hosted by google.


----------



## disastermouse

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Mac users: if you're not able to get your AU/VST hosts to recognize the TB_Isone VST use *this* VST/AU wrapper.  It's free and open source and hosted by google.


 


  I did try this but it was the one I used to begin with....still can't get the manual controls, but I got the presets.


----------



## sphinxvc

Weird.  Worked for me.  Actually, it worked better than the non-free FXpansion adapter, which made the Isone dialog box non-draggable.
   
  Only explanation I can think of is that it's a Fidelia/Lion issue.


----------



## disastermouse

I hope so, because even with the presets, it rocks...but not being able to work with the full plugin means I'll not actually buy it (Isone, not Fidelia). The benefits that a paid Isone would give me aren't accessible to me anyway. I asked about them building a AU version, but no joy. The only alternative is HEar, and I won't use that because of the punishing DRM (gotta buy an iLok, LOL - for a PLUGIN).

That said, I'll easily pay for Isone as soon as I can get it to work properly unless it takes more than a few hours. At that point I've put in so much time that I've basically already 'paid' for it in hours.


----------



## disastermouse

Actually, I'd probably pay double - maybe even triple for an AU version - the effect is that good! Plus, it would work with any audiophile player for Mac that's out there - I wouldn't be bound to Fidelia if I decide there's something better I like. I don't mind paying a bit more for more freedom and a more workable solution - especially for such an astonishing improvement.


----------



## disastermouse

I uninstalled everything and started over.....and.....
   
  Now I have the whole shebang!  Might have to make good on buying this plugin!  The price is certainly right!


----------



## sphinxvc

Nice!  I would buy it if not for the slight clipping and distortion issues -- but I can understand the lack of refinement, because as stated above by the developer it's really not meant for serious playback.  It's just a tool for audio dudes.  What I do take away from it though is that I really need to get invested in a speaker rig.  The way the music interacts together in the air before reaching the listener is something head-fi dudes are simply missing.  
   
  Other thing is that the plug-in made everything sound warmer and slightly more laid back in presentation, with a strong center image and great depth.  So I think that says alot about what neutral really is and how neutral cans like the sr-003, HD650, LCD-2 to some extent and the O2 really are.
   
  Curious: if you set the room preset to anechoic room, position the speakers 1.9m apart, click the speaker preset and make it "flat", does your HD650 sound brighter?


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Nice!  I would buy it if not for the slight clipping and distortion issues -- but I can understand the lack of refinement, because as stated above by the developer it's really not meant for serious playback.  It's just a tool for audio dudes.


 
  Whoa there. That's a bit of a misguided thing to say. I'm not offended or anything, but I just want to clarity that what you said is totally wrong.
   
  Your so-called "audio dudes" are the people who record, mix, and master the music you actually listen to--they are the audio professionals with training as sound engineers and have many years of expert experience in dealing with acoustics, DSP algorithms, psychoacoustics, and music/audio production. Their level of scrutiny and demand for refinement is what makes the music you love sound so damn good. If that's not "serious playback" then I don't know what is.
   
  Isone was designed to be used by the said audio-professionals so they can do critical monitoring on headphones if they need to, and its ability to emulate different listening conditions is invaluable to audio professionals who need to check how their music will sound on a variety of audio reproduction rigs and environments. 
   
  There was absolutely nothing said to indicate Isone is meant to be less than refined. There's also no evidence on my end that Isone is doing all the negative things you're saying it does. How you managed to clip and distort your signal chain is unique to your situation, and it is not an indication that it's automatically the same for everyone else. I use replaygain and set my audio playback to be consistent to a level below clipping, and Isone has never had a problem. As a composer and sound designer, I'm extremely picky, and I use Isone as part of my monitoring chain when I need to work with headphones on while doing critical audio work. Isone has never been a source of problem for me. Although I don't let any singular tool have the final say in my mix/masters (the best practice is to check that your mix/master translates to as many difference devices as possible), including Isone, it has never contributed negatively to my mix/masters before.


----------



## sphinxvc

Whoa _there!_  I think you're barking up the wrong tree because I wasn't trying to be condescending.  I'm not at all trying to devalue what audio professionals do.  I should probably retract that sentence you quoted -- the developer did not say Isone isn't meant for serious playback.  Poor choice of words/reading on my part.  As far as how refined Isone is, I feel it's an interesting, useful and revelatory tool, and I'll leave it right there.


----------



## SP Wild

Just wanna say that I only recently started experimenting with DSPs again.  I never did try this plugin with my LCD2s, only went as experimented with it on the D7000s.
   
  With the LCD2s, I agree with Lunatique, this software is quite amazing.  I have never got speaker like performance like this before, wow. 
   
  Obviously, it will alter the soundscape, but it does sound like "real" speakers to me.  In fact, all this time chasing tube amps for my LCD2s was to address a single factor, to make the sound more "real".  The LCD2 on its own will reproduce the recording as is.  Mikes very close to an acoustic guitar, the transients coming out of the LCD2s are like your are the where the microphone is, true to recording, but never true to a real performance.
   
  Atmosphere always blunted transients to my ears, and a tube amp was able to smear it enough and flesh out the tones for a more realistic experience.  Isone can do a similar thing, whilst adding subtle depth cues throughout the audible range that most of my headphones cannot pickup all of.
   
  IMO if you own a LCD2/HD800/T1 etc, you owe it to yourself to try this software.  I keep thinking I have left my speakers on and they are full blaring at 2 am...but my speakers are no where near this good.
   
  Great stuff, thumbs up.


----------



## SP Wild

WOW, I got the ear size, head size and HRTF fine honed to my head.  Tremendous binaural processing going on here.
   
  I can't find the instructions anywhere, to tell me what the knobs are for.  So here's a rundown of what they do according to how I hear it.  Took me about fifteen minutes to find a nice setting.
   

*He**ad size*:  This needs to be correct, and is the single most important adjustment.  Twirl this knob so that the image matches your ear spacing, you can tell when the closest sound goes into your head, this is too much, increase the headsize.  If too much headsize is dialled in the closest sound is too far out from your ear.  I found this to be the most important setting for the rest of the room effects to work correctly. Mine is set to 60%
   
*Ear size:  *I think this is the second most important, you have to dial this so that the sound doesn't sound like its going through a skinny tube piped into your ear, hard to describe - but that's the sensation I get when the ear size was dialled too small.  Going too big and the it sounds like the sound is being funneled into your ears by a funnel larger than your lobes.  Mine is set to 80 percent, which is about right, I always see people with smaller lobes than me, they seem so tiny and is fascinating.  This seems to explain my abhorrence of bright cans.
   
*HRTF:  *I couldn't work out what this was trying to accomplish, it seem to compress the tone of the instruments the higher I turned it, nothing else changed but that single tonality change.  Finally, I understood, this is simply the length of your neck.  Or how close your heads are to your shoulders.  I set mine to 20 percent when sitting up right, or standing.  If slouching I set it to about 35 percent, because the shoulders are much closer to my ears.  This one is difficult to dial, imagine at the maximum setting you are hunched over and as you dial down you extend your neck further and further upwards.  Set it to whatever sounds natural to you.
   
  That's it, these are the most important settings.  I always use the flat reference, and omni directional tweeters, I tend to leave room effects off and distance of speaker centered.  But those other knobs are very accurate and very useful on many recordings, this is what I think they do:
   
  T60: the distance between left and right walls in the room
  Level:  Use this to eliminate clipping
  Diffusion:  The distance between left and right speaker (no that's not right, there is a direct angle setting - not sure exactly what this one does, it affects width)
  Early Ref:  The height of the ceiling
  Size:  overall size of room
  Distance: speaker distance from listener.
   
  Like I said, I have not read the manual because I can't find it anywhere and I never really tried this software properly before, because the D7000 wasn't resolving enough, so there's a good chance I may be wrong.
   
  Its incredible, it really is - this is the number one binaural processor that I will use for speaker like staging.  It is far better than simple Xfeed - but Xfeed is good to preserve headphone intimacy for a good headphone experience. 
   
  When maxing out the room perimeters and listening distance - the soundstage is very realistic, massively tall and humungously wide and deep like only very large expensive speakers can do. 
   
  Getting the head size, earsize and a natural HRTF is the only way to achieve this, it also reduces transient smearing when those are dialled in correctly.
   
  Anyway I hope this helps.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





sp wild said:


> Like I said, I have not read the manual because I can't find it anywhere and I never really tried this software properly before, because the D7000 wasn't resolving enough, so there's a good chance I may be wrong.


 

  It's the first hit when you do a google search:
   
http://www.toneboosters.com/manuals/TB_Isone.pdf


----------



## donunus

Deleted the settings I posted. This plug in is making me way too paranoid. There is no one setting that works for all music for some reason.


----------



## juman231

I actually bought the JRiver because of the option to use the Isone! Great find Lunatique!


----------



## SP Wild

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> It's the first hit when you do a google search:
> 
> http://www.toneboosters.com/manuals/TB_Isone.pdf


 


  Its the same link posted earlier in the thread and the page doesn't seem to want to load up.  Been catching up with this thread, quite funny, lets just say I agree with you, that some people have no idea.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





sp wild said:


> Its the same link posted earlier in the thread and the page doesn't seem to want to load up.  Been catching up with this thread, quite funny, lets just say I agree with you, that some people have no idea.


 

 The manual can also be found from this page: http://www.toneboosters.com/documentation/
   
  If the PDF is not loading up for you, then you need to check that you have PDF reading software installed on your computer. Or, try a different web browser. That page should not be blocked from your location, since if I can see it from China, then you shouldn't have a problem seeing it at all.


----------



## SP Wild

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> The manual can also be found from this page: http://www.toneboosters.com/documentation/
> 
> If the PDF is not loading up for you, then you need to check that you have PDF reading software installed on your computer. Or, try a different web browser. That page should not be blocked from your location, since if I can see it from China, then you shouldn't have a problem seeing it at all.


 

 Thanks for that, got the manual...yay, I was spot on with my guesswork for the HRTF knobs.
   
  I find that there is a slight smearing in very high frequencies, above 8 khz, and that some of the data above there is eliminated (MP3 effect).  This is fixed by increasing the speaker angle, but tonal balance is leaned out significantly doing this.  Gonna play around with speaker distances to see if this will clear that up.
   
  So far I have heard speakers that are more transparent to the signal, whilst maintaining the immense staging, but those were 30K.  Still this is a small price to pay and is not even noticeable on my other headphones.  Small price to pay indeed, I need to Paypal my new toy.


----------



## donunus

That compromise between the phasey smearing and the right tonality is what is making me go crazy in setting the darn thing up. I decided to turn it off for the time being. It's getting to be too fussy to set up correctly.


----------



## SP Wild

That phasey smearing is how it calculates the ambiance of distances, but that's what I hear very badly in every single speaker set up - odd resonances and and irregularities from phasing issues and room interactions...this perfect room is something that Isone can do - it doesn't affect the tonal balance of individual instruments.  The limitations of this software is that it can't maintain true atmosphere transparency at the highest of frequencies - I have heard better in my own bookshelves.
   
  Having said that it is a valuable tool - and excellent listening experience through headphones.  The truth is fidelity is still extremely high, and I mainly notice this with direct AB, or I know my source recording extremely well - throw in a track I never heard before with the simulation on, and I wouldn't be complaining that anything is missing.  In fact dial it correctly and just enjoy your music, without analysing.  Keep it on for a session, then switch back to headphone mode...there is no doubt in my mind which one is more "real" - but I am still an audiophile, so I know exactly what you're saying.
   
  Still having problems?  Well, it is also the most transparent Xfeed only software, more transparent than both headfit and the JR one.  Headfit darkens the signal a bit and images within a smaller space than with no xfeed.  This one honestly is the only one I have used that does nothing to the tonal balance at all.
   
  Take down speaker distance to zero, Take down HRTF to zero.  You can change from in-head image, like headfit by zeroing head size or more out of head imaging like JR by maxing the headsize.  You control speaker angles.  Leave CSC on and turn off room modes, and the tonal balance does not change whatsoever within these adjustments.  I find as a Xfeed it is more intuitive to use than head-fit and is more transparent, with more versatility.


----------



## donunus

What's JR by the way?


----------



## donunus

SP Wild,
  Okay thanks for that extra tip there. Now I have something satisfying. I just got my headsize right then turned HRTF Cue and Distance all the way down then compensated for the gain. I am liking this. No more weird nasal thinness to the sound.


----------



## SP Wild

JR Media Center.  It also has a X Feed algorithm.
   
  What headphones are you using by the way?  I tried my K701s with the room settings, and hear absolutely no negatives with the K701, only vast improvements.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





sp wild said:


> Still having problems?  Well, it is also the most transparent Xfeed only software, more transparent than both headfit and the JR one.  Headfit darkens the signal a bit and images within a smaller space than with no xfeed.  This one honestly is the only one I have used that does nothing to the tonal balance at all.


 

 Don't forget Redline Monitor, which is the most expensive Xfeed plugin on the market and aimed at audio professionals--although it's only a Xfeed with manual controls and doesn't have HRTF, room sim, or speaker cabinet sim.


----------



## donunus

Quote: 





sp wild said:


> JR Media Center.  It also has a X Feed algorithm.
> 
> What headphones are you using by the way?  I tried my K701s with the room settings, and hear absolutely no negatives with the K701, only vast improvements.


 


  Oh, LOL I am using J River too since I find it to sound better than foobar. I tried its crossfeed and it is pretty good. It is better than headfit to me at the stock setting. I like the subtle setting best but still find it to have a subtle boost in the upper mids. As for the headphones I'm using... Sennheiser HD600 and AKG K141 mkII


----------



## donunus

Lunatique,
  Does Redline monitor work with JRiver?


----------



## SP Wild

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> Don't forget Redline Monitor, which is the most expensive Xfeed plugin on the market and aimed at audio professionals--although it's only a Xfeed with manual controls and doesn't have HRTF, room sim, or speaker cabinet sim.


 


  Do you mean to say that Isone is better than Redline, or Redline is as good as Isone?  It cost twice as much as Isone, was about to download the trial version but got sidetracked with the K701 and Isone.
   
  DONUNUS:  I agree, the JR Xfeed leans out the sound, but gives a much bigger soundstage than head-fit, I never use anything more than subtle on the JR - the others color the sound even more.


----------



## donunus

The only way that even the normal setting can be okay I guess is when playing music like the beatles  Still, subtle is the most i would use.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





donunus said:


> Lunatique,
> Does Redline monitor work with JRiver?


 

 J River Media Center can host any VST plugin, so yes. You can even host high-end pro audio VST plugins that cost thousands of dollars if you want to. 
   
  Quote: 





sp wild said:


> Do you mean to say that Isone is better than Redline, or Redline is as good as Isone?  It cost twice as much as Isone, was about to download the trial version but got sidetracked with the K701 and Isone.


 
   
  They're different, not better or worse. Redline Monitor is just a x-feed with comprehensive controls much like the one you find on hardware units like the SPL Phonitor. Isone is a HRTF simulator more along the lines of hardware units like the Smyth Research Realiser, but without the ability to turn your head and keep the imaging constant. It also simulates different speaker cabinets and rooms, so it's much more feature-rich than Redline Monitor. For audio professionals, the ability to hear how your mix might sound on different speaker systems and rooms is very useful.
   
  Personally, judging by price alone, I feel Redline Monitor is overpriced and Isone is underpriced. Generally speaking, Isone can somewhat replace Redline Monitor, since you can turn the HRTF, room, and speaker cabinet simulations off, and try to use it as a simple X-feed, but AFAIK, Isone will always retain some alteration of the frequency response from the simulation algorithms and cannot be turned off completely (but then again, trying to use Isone without all the comprehensive simulations is really not how it's supposed to be used, and is completely missing the point of the product. Doing so would be like buying a modern computer but only using it to do word processing--not really the best use of the product).
   
  Redline Monitor in comparison, doesn't alter the frequency response nearly as much because it has no need to run those simulations, being just a simple X-feed. It's quite straightforward, but not nearly as realistic or natural sounding as Isone, due to the lack of HRTF algorithm.


----------



## frank2908

I've spent a night with Isone and this is my impression, note that before trying I was very skeptical about such plug in because normally they mess up, distort the sound, no matter what they improve the soundstage. I tried music via my dacport and diy Thunderpants ( made by myself, not Smeggy) with Winamp. The impression is based on my personal best setting
   
  Detail: the golden question is does it or does it not distort the sound, change the sound signature? the answer is both, as it depends on the RECORDING, not the quality of your file. For example, on most songs, both flac and mp3,I didn't loose any detail. But on tracks like Between the bars - Madeleine Peyroux, which without Isone has some small distortion with it. With Isone turned on, the distortion is very very bad. The sound signature of my headphone does change a bit on every song, but it is due to the simulation of speaker, so I don't mind the change. The most important thing is the low distortion on most songs, which is IMO the best kudo.
   
  Soundstage: I disagree with all the comment in this thread that it sounds like speaker. Unfortunately its not there yet. I often listen to my dad's Unico cdplayer->Unison Research s6-> Tannoy Turnberry SE.Even with Isone, the detail is better, but you don't have the feeling of speaker. However I must say I'm starting to love isone because it improve the soundstage of my DIY Thunderpants much much better. Now the soundstage is much nicer than the k701, and more natural.
   
  Conclusion: I think the only thing is wrong with Isone is the expectation from everyone. When they heard of such a plugin, they immediately thought of the distortion and the ability to simulate speaker. The Isone is like any hardware system, it depends on your source, so with good material, it has low distortion, and it improve the soundstage of your headphones to the level of the best soundstage that comes from any headphones. I'm not claiming that the k701 has the best soundstage, however still better than many. Many claim that the best headphones would have the sound signature of hd650/dt880 or whatever your favourite headphones + k701 soundstage. With Isone, I can pin point instruments with a very airy sound. So I highly recommend this product


----------



## donunus

Bah, I went back to headfit and generated a new setting and am happier with it vs isone pro. I just really want crossfeed, not a room simulation program.


----------



## Sweden

Yesterday I started using Isone thru J River with my LCD-2 and the first thing I thought was that someone must be having a laugh.
  It sounded absolutely horrible! Complete loss of a natural tone + muffled isn't exactly my idea of transforming a pair of headphone to the better. It took some serious tuning of all the settings to make it work.
  And now I must say it sounds really good. Still I find J Rivers own crossfeed to be better with many songs. A bit more natural and better placement of instruments. But old recorded songs with smaller soundstage become truly gorgeous with Isone in a way JR crossfeed never could make happen. 
  Is it just me or is their a bit of loss of detail, particularly in the low end?
 Maybe their is some setting to avoid this.
   
   
  With the pack of plugins I found something just as amazing as Isone called _*EZQ*_.
  I've experimented with some EQ before but this is on a whole new level.
  If you have the LCD-2 you never knew how muffled the cans sound until you set this DSP up!
  It's literally like lifting a veil and you start hearing EVERYTHING in a song. The whole tone of the headphone started sounding more natural and everything got much smoother.
   It almost felt like upgrading to a pair of LCD-3 with a click of a button. Not kidding
 Upgraditis cured.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Any other with similar experience regarding EZQ?


----------



## donunus

Can you post a link for IZQ


----------



## 4nradio

Do you mean EZQ?
   
http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-ezq/
   
  I don't see a "IZQ" on the Tone Boosters web site.


----------



## Sweden

My bad!
   
  Its very late on this side of the Atlantic...
  Its *TB_EZQ*!
   
  Now that we have settled that minor confusion, is there anyone with the LCD's who where just amazed how much better their headphones sounded using this little tweek?
  Im using rev1.


----------



## donunus

I wonder what the difference is with the free and paid versions


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





sweden said:


> With the pack of plugins I found something just as amazing as Isone called _*EZQ*_.
> I've experimented with some EQ before but this is on a whole new level.
> If you have the LCD-2 you never knew how muffled the cans sound until you set this DSP up!
> It's literally like lifting a veil and you start hearing EVERYTHING in a song. The whole tone of the headphone started sounding more natural and everything got much smoother.
> ...


 

 I would generally not advocate using any kind of preset setting for EQ, because in order to properly address the idiosyncratic issues of your particular headphone, you need to actually be able to control exactly what frequencies, how broad or narrow the bandwidth, and what amplitude, according to the exact frequency response of your headphone. 
   
  In the case of LCD-2, because they are hand-assembled, each headphone would measure slightly different from each other--if you look at the variety of frequency response graphs that people have posted of their particular LCD-2 (provided by Audez'e with every LCD-2, when they test the headphone before shipping it out), there are minor differences between them--especially in the treble and upper-mids. 
   
  If you are serious about this stuff, learn to EQ properly with a good visual parametric EQ. Study the FR graph that came with your LCD-2 and then address the unwanted dips (there shouldn't be any unwanted peaks, but if there are, address those too). You have to know how to read headphone FR graphs though--they are not supposed to ruler flat so do not EQ them visually flat like a ruler. Read up on it at HeadRoom. 
   
  I spent almost a year perfecting the custom EQ curve of my LCD-2, and it's about as perfect as I can make it, and I have zero interest in the LCD-3.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> I would generally not advocate using any kind of preset setting for EQ, because in order to properly address the idiosyncratic issues of your particular headphone, you need to actually be able to control exactly what frequencies, how broad or narrow the bandwidth, and what amplitude, according to the exact frequency response of your headphone.
> 
> In the case of LCD-2, because they are hand-assembled, each headphone would measure slightly different from each other--if you look at the variety of frequency response graphs that people have posted of their particular LCD-2 (provided by Audez'e with every LCD-2, when they test the headphone before shipping it out), there are minor differences between them--especially in the treble and upper-mids.
> 
> ...


 

 I had my share of EQing the LCD's but this is a whole new thing.
  Have you even tried EZQ?
   
  It would be interesting if you could send my the EQ setting file or show it here so I can compare even tho our systems and headphones doesen't need to be similar.
  My aim have never been to get a perfectly straight curve though, but a more natural tone and more involving. Maybe we are talking the same thing I don't know.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





sweden said:


> I had my share of EQing the LCD's but this is a whole new thing.
> Have you even tried EZQ?
> 
> It would be interesting if you could send my the EQ setting file or show it here so I can compare even tho our systems and headphones doesen't need to be similar.
> My aim have never been to get a perfectly straight curve though, but a more natural tone and more involving. Maybe we are talking the same thing I don't know.


 

 I don't have to try it--I'm an audio professional and I can tell by just looking at the product description that it cannot be used to EQ for precision, as there are no parametric settings to address exact frequencies. EZQ is not a product meant for precision--it's meant for fast, simple, broad changes. If you are after a fast, no-fuss solution, you might as well get SonoReplicator instead, since it actually involves measuring your headphone and then generates a customized EQ curve for it:
   
http://www.sonoreplicator.com/mp3demo.htm
   
  For audio professionals, accurate/neutral is the same thing as involving and natural. The only way for anything to sound involving and natural is if it's perfectly accurate and neutral. It's exactly like how the only way for a television screen to look natural is if all the colors, contrast, and brightness is set for maximum accuracy/neutrality. If you haven't seen the thread on "misconception of accurate/neutral," you might want to read it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/564465/misconception-of-neutral-accurate/150#post_7770815


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> I don't have to try it--I'm an audio professional and I can tell by just looking at the product description that it cannot be used to EQ for precision, as there are no parametric settings to address exact frequencies. EZQ is not a product meant for precision--it's meant for fast, simple, broad changes. If you are after a fast, no-fuss solution, you might as well get SonoReplicator instead, since it actually involves measuring your headphone and then generates a customized EQ curve for it:
> 
> http://www.sonoreplicator.com/mp3demo.htm
> 
> For audio professionals, accurate/neutral is the same thing as involving and natural. The only way for anything to sound involving and natural is if it's perfectly accurate and neutral. It's exactly like how the only way for a television screen to look natural is if all the colors, contrast, and brightness is set for maximum accuracy/neutrality. If you haven't seen the thread on "misconception of accurate/neutral," you might want to read it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/564465/misconception-of-neutral-accurate/150#post_7770815


 

   
  I was watching a critically acclaimed movie at a friends house who just had bought one of the best flat screens on the market he claimed.
  The resolution and realism on the screen where just purely amazing. You can see it was life like.
  Only then did I realize just how crappy and cheap the set design looked like.  A restaurant scene almost looked cartoonish with cardboard cut outs and it got to the point that the overall crappy ness of the set and small insignificant details was all that I could concentrate on. It ruined the entire movie for me. Couple of days later i watched the movie again, but this time on my old plasma. Guess what? This time I could enjoy the movie much more. I'm sure the realism, color tone, contrast etc where off, but something in the inaccuracy made me like to whole look of the movie much more. This I have found to be the case with most movies. You get fully emerged and involved with the story instead of being reminded of the ugly realism. I guess plasma gives the screen a more romantic shimmer.  The same is true whit the much of the music I listen to and the audio gear I like. If all the music I listened to where all perfectly produced and mastered, than perfect neutrality would perhaps be more attractive, but that form of music often times are what I consider "audiophile" music and  I can't stand "audiophile" music. Most of that stuff seems to be made to listen to your gear thru music and not the opposite way around.
   
  There is a reason the SS Apex Butte show better stats the the all tube Pinnacle but at the same time aren't as enjoyable to listen to( I'm guessing for most people most of the time) Some coloration is what makes much music really shine for me and I'm sure thats true for many people.
  It seems right that you as an "audio pro" need this in your line of work but I don't like the tone you carry holding yourself up as some superior power speaking for all people in the matter. "The only way for anything to sound involving and natural is if it's perfectly accurate and neutral" To me that just sound condescending even thou I hypothetically could agree with your preference.
  Sure EZQ is a quick fix simple gadget, but that would make it even more appealing to most people. I've never claimed this would be the perfect tool, but the compatibility with the LCD's seems really good. How many is there who spend a year EQing a headphone? Not even on head-fi can that be common


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





sweden said:


> I was watching a critically acclaimed movie at a friends house who just had bought one of the best flat screens on the market he claimed.
> The resolution and realism on the screen where just purely amazing. You can see it was life like.
> Only then did I realize just how crappy and cheap the set design looked like.  A restaurant scene almost looked cartoonish with cardboard cut outs and it got to the point that the overall crappy ness of the set and small insignificant details was all that I could concentrate on. It ruined the entire movie for me. Couple of days later i watched the movie again, but this time on my old plasma. Guess what? This time I could enjoy the movie much more. I'm sure the realism, color tone, contrast etc where off, but something in the inaccuracy made me like to whole look of the movie much more. This I have found to be the case with most movies. You get fully emerged and involved with the story instead of being reminded of the ugly realism. I guess plasma gives the screen a more romantic shimmer.  The same is true whit the much of the music I listen to and the audio gear I like. If all the music I listened to where all perfectly produced and mastered, than perfect neutrality would perhaps be more attractive, but that form of music often times are what I consider "audiophile" music and  I can't stand "audiophile" music. Most of that stuff seems to be made to listen to your gear thru music and not the opposite way around.
> 
> ...


 

 By your logic, it's better for people to be near-sighted or in dimly lit places while dating, because then, we can't see the other person clearly, which would obscure all the things we would find unattractive if we had normal vision or in a well-lit place.
   
  Well, it certainly works for romantically lit restaurants, or darkly-lit bars and pubs. But the morning after hooking up has certainly scared a lot of people.  
   
  For myself personally, speaking only for myself, I prefer accurate and neutral, and let the only coloration be the one that the musical artist intended, not because my signal chain is subjectively colored. 
   
  I apologize if you didn't like my tone. I guess audio professionals get used to being the ones that are "right" because we are the people who are setting all the audio standards, technologies, measuring, testing, production, and so on, and people pay audio professionals to make accurate decisions and rely on them to make those decisions. So in a way, you can say that the world has always counted on audio professional to make things sound "right" or "good"--from mastering engineers, mixers, recording engineers, speaker and headphone engineers/designers, DAC/ADC designers, sound card/audio interface designers...etc.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> By your logic, it's better for people to be near-sighted or in dimly lit places while dating, because then, we can't see the other person clearly, which would obscure all the things we would find unattractive if we had normal vision or in a well-lit place.
> 
> Well, it certainly works for romantically lit restaurants, or darkly-lit bars and pubs. But the morning after hooking up has certainly scared a lot of people.
> 
> ...


 

 If you are in a place with 90% mediocre or ugly looking girls and 10% hard core bitches and this was the only option it probably would be great to be both nearsighted and a bit drunk yes. 
  
 This is how the reality for me and most peoples music libraries look like. But then again it's really not fair comparing the look of women and the quality of recordings or general audio preferences. When it comes to audio that tube magic morning hangover anxiety never seem to happen for some reason.


----------



## zhenya

So I've got this setup and working nicely on my work PC such that any sound source I play is passed through Isone.  On some recordings I don't find a whole lot of advantage, but on many others, it's hard to listen without it now!  Unfortunately at home, my source is my iMac using primarily iTunes and Spotify.  Has anyone figured out how to chain the output on a Mac like I've been able to do on the PC?


----------



## johnwmclean

For mac OSX I’ve been running DSP-Quattro with success,
  But all I really need is a player like Fidelia, but I’ve had no luck, Fidelia cannot recognise or see the VST plugins on my mac.
   
  I’d be interested to know if anyone is having any better luck.
   
  The default setting of isone sounds promising, especially switching back to flat setting, it’s very addictive. So would you say isone pro resembles the realiser without the head panning ability?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> So would you say isone pro resembles the realiser without the head panning ability?


 

 Not really.  The Realiser copies the room, the speakers, and your own personal HRTF while taking the frequency response of your headphones into account.  Its far more comprehensive than Isone which is fairly generic in comparison.  Then again the Realiser costs more than 100 times as much as Isone so its clear where the value lies.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Not really.  The Realiser copies the room, the speakers, and your own personal HRTF while taking the frequency response of your headphones into account.  Its far more comprehensive than Isone which is fairly generic in comparison.  Then again the Realiser costs more than 100 times as much as Isone so its clear where the value lies.


 


  Thanks for clarifying maverickronin,
   
  Whatever Isone Pro does, I know one thing, I’m completely blown away, I consider it one of the best upgrades I have ever made. I’ve got it running in Pure Music on my mac now!
   
  Thanks to Lunatique and others who have contributed to this thread.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Big thanks to Jeroen for this tool as via this, as it lead me to a path in which I learnt a lot about psychoacoustics. 
   
  Anyway, yeah, you need to know a good deal about room acoustics in general to use Isone properly 
  Once configured properly, it's fantastic. Realistic as well e.g. if you dampen a room too much (too much diffusion), your room will sound 'dull' or 'dead' and much the same happens in Isone if you do that.
  Early reflections are needed for positional cues and as such, if you kill the early reflections in Isone, positional cues suffers.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> Big thanks to Jeroen for this tool as via this, as it lead me to a path in which I learnt a lot about psychoacoustics.
> 
> Anyway, yeah, you need to know a good deal about room acoustics in general to use Isone properly
> Once configured properly, it's fantastic. Realistic as well e.g. if you dampen a room too much (too much diffusion), your room will sound 'dull' or 'dead' and much the same happens in Isone if you do that.
> Early reflections are needed for positional cues and as such, if you kill the early reflections in Isone, positional cues suffers.


 


 What settings and headphones are you using?


----------



## crumpler

Just got the Isone Pro working on my Mac too, pretty amazing stuff!
   
  Credits to johnwmclean!
   
  And a big shout-out to everyone in this thread!


----------



## donunus

Are there any simple music players on the mac that work with vst plugins?


----------



## Masticore

Ive been trying to use Isone with Fidelia and I couldent make the player find the plugin, even after using the "VSTAU Manager". In the end Ive got everything working with Audio Hijack Pro and I must say it sounds really great, I think my favorite preset is the natural crossfeed.
   
  Well, my question is:
   
  Can anyone tell me how to proceed to install the trail Isone plugin so Fidelia recognizes it?


----------



## darcyb62

Quote: 





masticore said:


> Ive been trying to use Isone with Fidelia and I couldent make the player find the plugin, even after using the "VSTAU Manager". In the end Ive got everything working with Audio Hijack Pro and I must say it sounds really great, I think my favorite preset is the natural crossfeed.
> 
> Well, my question is:
> 
> Can anyone tell me how to proceed to install the trail Isone plugin so Fidelia recognizes it?


 

 What version of Fidelia are you using?  If you are using the latest beta, VSTs will not work period.  32 bit AUs won't work either.


----------



## Masticore

Im using the newest standard version, NOT beta. 
   
  I have the .vst in library/audio/plugin.....       Ive noticed that sometimes when I start fidelia up a pop up comes up saying it cant validate the plugin ins or something. Ive tried reinstalling everything but wont work. I guess I have to settle with hijack audio for the time being.


----------



## zhenya

Hopefully simple question here - I've got Isone Pro working on my Mac via Pure Music.  Question is how do I access the various presets like I can on my PC setup?  ie. 'welcome to isone', 'crossfeed', 'average joe' etc?


----------



## maverickronin

I'd like to help but I've got no clue.
   
  This thread has a shortage of users experienced in getting this kind of stuff working on Macs.


----------



## zhenya

Getting it working in Pure Music was much simpler than I expected, and the bonus is that I can continue to use iTunes, and unlike on my PC setup, disabling it/enabling it is a single click, making comparisons easy.  I'm just not sure why I can't access the presets - every time I open it it resets all knobs fully counter-clockwise.  $129 for Pure Music will be hard to swallow though.  Plus the garish UI is really hard to take on a Mac.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





zhenya said:


> Plus the garish UI is really hard to take on a Mac.


 

 Pretty much all VST plug ins are like that.  I don't know who thought the "Fisher Price: My First Computer" motif was a good industry standard but that's the way it is.


----------



## dentonnn

Just tried it with audacity, ER4S and of Eva Cassidy's Live at the Blues Alley, *absolutely stunnnnnning *





. it took me back to 1996 washington!!! Thank you Lunatique for this great recommendation


----------



## crumpler

Quote: 





zhenya said:


> Getting it working in Pure Music was much simpler than I expected, and the bonus is that I can continue to use iTunes, and unlike on my PC setup, disabling it/enabling it is a single click, making comparisons easy.  I'm just not sure why I can't access the presets - every time I open it it resets all knobs fully counter-clockwise.  $129 for Pure Music will be hard to swallow though.  Plus the garish UI is really hard to take on a Mac.


 


  Are you referring to the presets on the Isone Pro plugin?


----------



## zhenya

Quote: 





crumpler said:


> Are you referring to the presets on the Isone Pro plugin?


 


  Yes, as I mentioned, on my PC, I have a number of presets to choose from like crossfeed, average joe, large ears, small head, etc.  If those are available on my Mac through Pure Music, I can't find them.


----------



## crumpler

Quote: 





zhenya said:


> Yes, as I mentioned, on my PC, I have a number of presets to choose from like crossfeed, average joe, large ears, small head, etc.  If those are available on my Mac through Pure Music, I can't find them.


 


  I've the Isone Pro running along side Pure Music and do have access to some presets in Isone Pro. But i don't see those you've specifically mentioned i.e. crossfeed, average joe, large ears, small head. The presets i have in Isone Pro include: Flat, Hifi speaker, Small Monitor, Monitor A,B,C, portable, laptop, etc. Ear sizes and head sizes are a rotary knob on Isone Pro for me, instead of a preset.


----------



## zhenya

Quote: 





crumpler said:


> I've the Isone Pro running along side Pure Music and do have access to some presets in Isone Pro. But i don't see those you've specifically mentioned i.e. crossfeed, average joe, large ears, small head. The presets i have in Isone Pro include: Flat, Hifi speaker, Small Monitor, Monitor A,B,C, portable, laptop, etc. Ear sizes and head sizes are a rotary knob on Isone Pro for me, instead of a preset.


 


  Yeah, those are available directly in the Isone window on both PC and Mac, and I have those.  On my PC is a whole list of other presets (available through the VST host program) that adjusts the HRTF, Ear Size, and Head Size as well as the room settings.  That's what I don't see on the Mac.


----------



## crumpler

Quote: 





zhenya said:


> Yeah, those are available directly in the Isone window on both PC and Mac, and I have those.  On my PC is a whole list of other presets (available through the VST host program) that adjusts the HRTF, Ear Size, and Head Size as well as the room settings.  That's what I don't see on the Mac.


 


  That's pretty much to be expected right? Since you don't/can't use Pure Music on the PC, expecting the Mac VST host program (in this case Pure Music), to act like the PC VST host program is asking a bit much i think.


----------



## zhenya

Quote: 





crumpler said:


> That's pretty much to be expected right? Since you don't/can't use Pure Music on the PC, expecting the Mac VST host program (in this case Pure Music), to act like the PC VST host program is asking a bit much i think.


 


  I don't consider this to be a function of the VST host program, but options available for Isone through the host.  That's why I'd expect it to be available.  On the PC, these presets are available regardless of which host I use.


----------



## crumpler

Quote: 





zhenya said:


> I don't consider this to be a function of the VST host program, but options available for Isone through the host.  That's why I'd expect it to be available.  On the PC, these presets are available regardless of which host I use.


 


  Wow, that is interesting! Sorry i can't be of any help in your quest but do keep us posted if/when you do find a solution.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Saintly

I just downloaded WinAmp and installed the VST Host DSP v1.0 for WinAmp plug-in.  The directions say to go to "preferences" and then "DSP/Effects" under the "plug-ins" tab.  I tried to load the trial version of Isone but it said it's not a valid VST plugin.  
   
  Has anyone had success getting it to work in WinAmp?


----------



## Wingstrike

Same problem. Help anyone?
  
  Quote: 





saintly said:


> I just downloaded WinAmp and installed the VST Host DSP v1.0 for WinAmp plug-in.  The directions say to go to "preferences" and then "DSP/Effects" under the "plug-ins" tab.  I tried to load the trial version of Isone but it said it's not a valid VST plugin.
> 
> Has anyone had success getting it to work in WinAmp?


----------



## Wingstrike

I just figured it out for me. Instead of downloading for 64 bit system, get the x86. That solved it for me.


----------



## Saintly

Quote: 





wingstrike said:


> I just figured it out for me. Instead of downloading for 64 bit system, get the x86. That solved it for me.


 


   
  Thanks, it works!
   
  I downloaded the 30 day trial of JRiver Media Center and am loving the user interface and features. It allows the user solid control of playback options and also seamlessly integrates the Isone. Try it, I don't think you'll be disappointed.


----------



## sphinxvc

One thing I've noticed about Isone is it seems to almost completely eliminate annoying ringing/peakiness on certain not-well-recorded tracks.  Anyone else notice the same?  Songs being less harsh?  
   
_*I do use a flat FR & the room designer (anechoic)._


----------



## Saintly

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> One thing I've noticed about Isone is it seems to almost completely eliminate annoying ringing/peakiness on certain not-well-recorded tracks.  Anyone else notice the same?  Songs being less harsh?
> 
> _*I do use a flat FR & the room designer (anechoic)._


 

 Yeah, I found that it kind of smoothes things over.  It takes away some of the immediacy and maybe a tiny bit of microdetail but the effects are pretty nifty.


----------



## Silent One

Can Isone Pro be used with Amarra (Full)? I think I may have seen someone using plug-ins with Audacity, may try that tonight; tomorrow.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


saintly said:


> Yeah, I found that it kind of smoothes things over.  *It takes away some of the immediacy and maybe a tiny bit of microdetail *but the effects are pretty nifty.


 
   
  That was my initial impression as well.  But that's what it's supposed to be doing in a sense, it coincides with speaker-in-a-room acoustics.  I'm really liking it with my current rig.  The smoothing overcomes some of the slight peaks in the LCD-2s upper registers.  It makes me want to try a pair of T1s, since I really like those, maybe even more than the LCD-2s, *except* for their bite in the treble.
   
  Quote:


silent one said:


> Can Isone Pro be used with Amarra (Full)? I think I may have seen someone using plug-ins with Audacity, may try that tonight; tomorrow.


 

 Hey!  Hmm, I don't think Amarra supports VST plug-ins, I know iTunes doesn't, and since Amarra piggybacks on iTunes...
   
  If it doesn't, try Fidelia, it's a better way to demo Isone than Audacity (where you have to process each track using the plug-in before playback...a pain)


----------



## zhenya

Quote: 





saintly said:


> Yeah, I found that it kind of smoothes things over.  It takes away some of the immediacy and maybe a tiny bit of microdetail but the effects are pretty nifty.


 


  Indeed. Much of my initial listening was done with my travel rig of my mdr-7506's. On that setup, it seemed to work wonders on most tracks. Now having spent more time with it on my better systems, there are still some tracks and albums that it is really great on, but on many others, the loss of detail, change in timbre, and sense of space that is present in really good cans is lost. I understand that this is all part of the speaker/room reproduction, but I suspect that many of us here like headphones in part because of the closeness to the recording that they provide.


----------



## sphinxvc

Good post, you're right.  
   
  I also do wonder if my LCD-2s are partially to blame.  The "loss" in detail is probably only lost or dissipated in the simulated space between me and the "speakers", so I wonder if a pair of more resolving cans like Stax, might be better suited to this application?  
   
  While I agree on the losses you speak of above, there are some gains too, like extra dimension revealed by the cross-feed, or the treble dissipation that makes even bad recordings bearable, that smooth FR.  
   
  Edit: One other thing, using Isone (depending on your settings) can reduce your overall volume.  I have to crank my volume more to get to the same decibel level, I'll try listening this way to see if those subtle microdetails come back to some extent.  That might have had something to do with it.


----------



## zhenya

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Good post, you're right.
> 
> I also do wonder if my LCD-2s are partially to blame.  The "loss" in detail is probably only lost or dissipated in the simulated space between me and the "speakers", so I wonder if a pair of more resolving cans like Stax, might be better suited to this application?
> 
> ...


 
   
  The volume can have an effect for sure - and that was one of the things I noticed immediately.  I use the Speaker Level to adjust that as high as I can without clipping.
   
  But yes, what you say is pretty much exactly what I mean when I say it works really well for some recordings and less so for others.  The ability to place individual instruments in space is truly remarkable, and like you say, it can really improve some bad recordings.  Where I find I don't care for it is on recordings where there is a real sense of ambiance in the recording itself, but at low level relative to the music.  This is largely lost when using Isone, as it is while listening to those recordings with speakers.  Hearing that is one of my favorite things about headphones though.


----------



## Saintly

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Good post, you're right.
> 
> I also do wonder if my LCD-2s are partially to blame.  The "loss" in detail is probably only lost or dissipated in the simulated space between me and the "speakers", so I wonder if a pair of more resolving cans like Stax, might be better suited to this application?
> 
> ...


 

 The loss in detail isn't big with the HD 800.  That probably has something to do with its innate treble quantity which stays at a reasonable level even with the signal processing of the Isone.  On a lot of recordings, there really is a sense of 3D to the imaging, even more so than what the HD 800 is already capable of.
   


  Quote: 





zhenya said:


> The volume can have an effect for sure - and that was one of the things I noticed immediately.  I use the Speaker Level to adjust that as high as I can without clipping.
> 
> But yes, what you say is pretty much exactly what I mean when I say it works really well for some recordings and less so for others.  The ability to place individual instruments in space is truly remarkable, and like you say, it can really improve some bad recordings.  Where I find I don't care for it is on recordings where there is a real sense of ambiance in the recording itself, but at low level relative to the music.  This is largely lost when using Isone, as it is while listening to those recordings with speakers.  Hearing that is one of my favorite things about headphones though.


 
   
  This mirrors my experience exactly.  I find the Isone to be most beneficial to solo vocals and not so much with large-scale classical music where there is already a good amount of air and ambience.
   
  What settings have you been using?


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


saintly said:


> The loss in detail isn't big with the HD 800.  That probably has something to do with its innate treble quantity which stays at a reasonable level even with the signal processing of the Isone.  On a lot of recordings, there really is a sense of 3D to the imaging, even more so than what the HD 800 is already capable of.


 

 Good to know.  I might end up borrowing a friend's HD800 to test that once I get my amp in April.


----------



## zhenya

Quote: 





saintly said:


> This mirrors my experience exactly.  I find the Isone to be most beneficial to solo vocals and not so much with large-scale classical music where there is already a good amount of air and ambience.
> 
> What settings have you been using?


 

  
  Pretty much just the 'average joe' settings with slight adjustments made to Ear and Head size.  Generally flat or near flat frequency response.


----------



## Parall3l

This VST is great. Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## SP Wild

Quote: 





saintly said:


> The loss in detail isn't big with the HD 800.  That probably has something to do with its innate treble quantity which stays at a reasonable level even with the signal processing of the Isone.  On a lot of recordings, there really is a sense of 3D to the imaging, even more so than what the HD 800 is already capable of.
> 
> 
> This mirrors my experience exactly.  I find the Isone to be most beneficial to solo vocals and not so much with large-scale classical music where there is already a good amount of air and ambience.
> ...


 

 I find that the transient smear trade off is not worth it for some tracks that are obviously mastered, while not binaurally, definitely with headphone users considered. 
   
  For me the HD800 treble transient seemed a little smeared already compared to the LCD2, this explains how the LCD2 can spotlight any transient smearing.  Kinda like how with my K701 and HD650, the smearing of this DSP is not even picked up.


----------



## Saintly

Quote: 





sp wild said:


> I find that the transient smear trade off is not worth it for some tracks that are obviously mastered, while not binaurally, definitely with headphone users considered.
> 
> For me the HD800 treble transient seemed a little smeared already compared to the LCD2, this explains how the LCD2 can spotlight any transient smearing.  Kinda like how with my K701 and HD650, the smearing of this DSP is not even picked up.


 

 I agree with the first part that the Isone's downside outweighs the speaker-like experience.  As for the HD 800's transients being smeared compared to the LCD-2?  ROFL


----------



## Wingstrike

For me, it's still very hard to get a speaker-like image, and all im left with is lower fidelity and some weird sounding cross-feed. Maybe dsp and crossfeed isn't my thing. =(


----------



## SP Wild

Quote: 





saintly said:


> I agree with the first part that the Isone's downside outweighs the speaker-like experience. * As for the HD 800's transients being smeared compared to the LCD-2?  ROFL*


 


  Didn't mean to offend you.  We all do hear differently after all.


----------



## Saintly

Quote: 





sp wild said:


> Didn't mean to offend you.  We all do hear differently after all.


 


  Lol, riding everything off as subjective upon individual hearing.  That's a good cop-out and all, but our hearing doesn't vary so much as to alter our perception of technical aspects like this.  One of these days, I'm gonna hear someone say the Beats are more detailed than the Hd800 and ride that off as individual hearing variation too. Are you gonna make my dream come true?


----------



## kesslerjesus

So I've been trying out the VST, and so far it works well with my Sennheiser HD280's. On the other hand, Isone just doesn't seem to work well with my Ultrasone 2500's. Not sure if it's the "S-logic" technology already being employed by the headphones, but even after messing around with the Isone settings, the 2500's just don't seem to sync well with the software like the HD280's do.
   
  Oh, and also, using Isone with my Beyer DT48's doesn't work either. I'm not sure if it's the headphones, but when dialing in settings in Isone, the sound coming from the headphones makes me feel like I'm adding artificial effects to the music I'm listening to. Odd, really...


----------



## eclipes

anyone know if its possible to have VST applications integrated into Foobars Column/panel Layout. I want to have it there permanently instead of floating around my desktop space.


----------



## Saintly

Quote: 





eclipes said:


> anyone know if its possible to have VST applications integrated into Foobars Column/panel Layout. I want to have it there permanently instead of floating around my desktop space.


 


  Can't you save the VST files under documents or elsewhere so that it's not on your desktop?


----------



## eclipes

What i meant was when you adjust the VST application like isone pro or omni pro whatever, it is an external window where you edit. I was wonder if that external window can be brought into Foobar as a native menu for adjustment. Sorry for the confusion.
  
  Quote: 





saintly said:


> Can't you save the VST files under documents or elsewhere so that it's not on your desktop?


----------



## Saintly

Quote: 





eclipes said:


> What i meant was when you adjust the VST application like isone pro or omni pro whatever, it is an external window where you edit. I was wonder if that external window can be brought into Foobar as a native menu for adjustment. Sorry for the confusion.


 
   
  Ah, I see.  Sorry, I don't have any experience with Foobar.
   
  JRiver Media Center integrates it though and is an incredible media player, IMO.  You can try it for a month for free and see how you like it.  The purchase price is $50 so it's fairly reasonable should you like it.


----------



## b0000

reckoner by radiohead sounds phenomenal with isone!


----------



## Windsor

I just downloaded TB Isone today - what a quality product!
   
  It has completely changed my headphone-listening experience so much that I I'm now feeling that my initial goal for investing in headphones (to have an ongoing experience of listening to music via headphones that sounded like I was in the audience at a live performance or listening to a playback in a high-end studio) has been pretty much fulfilled. With the LCD-2, TB Isone, and a few other components, I'm feeling like my headphone-related-purchases are probably at an end. (phew! 
   
  A few days ago, further to a thread started here by Lunatique (thank you), I EQ'd my LCD-2 rev.2 to a neutral setting using Audio Hijack Pro and the Apple parametric EQ plugin. It was like a veil had been lifted from the LCD-2 that was a lot more revealing of the treble details that I had wanted to hear a lot of the time since purchasing it. The sound was still a little bit harsh to my ears though, mainly because of the wide stereo panning and intensity of the LCD-2 sound.

 Soon after my headphones were EQ'd, I discovered TB Isone and then spent a few hours trying to get it to work on my Mac with the full set of features (more on that later). So far - and with little monetary expenditure - I've partially succeeded and for now have decided to enjoy the best configuration I've discovered with Isone. 

 I saw some questions in this thread from other Mac users who had difficulty getting TB Isone to work, so here's my current configuration in the hope that it helps those in need:
   
  I currently use iTunes as my main music player and my system audio is routed to Audio Hijack Pro with which I use the AUParametricEQ to neuralize the LCD-2. I copied the Isone plugins to my system audio plugin folder and Audio Hijack Pro recognized the plugin but wouldn't load it. I remedied that problem by using a free app call VSTAU which allows Isone to be opened by Audio Hijack Pro as an AU that is currently in my Audio Hijack Pro effects chain after the parametric EQ. 

 With this configuration, Isone partially works but without the graphic interface (inc. speaker selection, the HRTF level, and room type etc.) that appears when I load Isone in Audacity and Live. However there are a list of presets that I can access including different crossfeed settings, near field setup, far field setup, the neighbours etc, and that is definitely more than enough to enjoy. The Crossfeed + CRC is probably my favourite setting at the moment, but I may expriment a bit more.
   
  I'd love to have an Isone preset with flat monitor speakers that are 1.5 - 2 meters away from me in a pretty dry room, so if anyone can make one for me, I'd really appreciate it. 
   
  Thanks again to Lunatique and all others who have participated in this thread!


----------



## helios

Isone works fine on my Macbook, but won't load on my 2008 iMac.  Is there a link for VSTAU?


----------



## Windsor

Quote:


helios said:


> Isone works fine on my Macbook, but won't load on my 2008 iMac.  Is there a link for VSTAU?


 
   
  Yes - you can try this one.


----------



## helios

Thanks. I'll experiment with it and see what happens.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





windsor said:


> Quote:
> 
> Yes - you can try this one.


 

 I launch this and it scans for files and crashes when it's almost done.  So, still can't use the VST TB_Isone with Audio Hijack Pro.


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I launch this and it scans for files and crashes when it's almost done.  So, still can't use the VST TB_Isone with Audio Hijack Pro.


 

 Did you copy the TB plug-in folder (TB_Plugins_v2.6_OSX) to your Mac's system/audio/plug-ins/VST folder? After doing that on my Mac, VSTAU installs/uninstalls plug-ins successfully.


----------



## Matt head 777

I'm trying Isone pro, thanks for the recommendation. As a VST host I'm using J River media center. I was always wondering about a media player that supports VST plugins now I found one


----------



## Matt head 777

what settings do people use, say with LCD-2?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





matt head 777 said:


> what settings do people use, say with LCD-2?


 

 It has more to do with your head and ears than you're headphones.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





windsor said:


> Did you copy the TB plug-in folder (TB_Plugins_v2.6_OSX) to your Mac's system/audio/plug-ins/VST folder? After doing that on my Mac, VSTAU installs/uninstalls plug-ins successfully.


 

 Yes I did.  I found a newer version of VSTAU that works (dated 1/4/12) but seem to have lost the link to it.
   
  It works now, and I like it with some of my older recordings with a wide L-R spread (like Bill Evans Waltz for Debbie), but for the most part I'm not needing it.


----------



## Matt head 777

Really enjoying tb isone in combo with nyquist eq, really makes my HD518 sing. Really enjoy these headphones now.
  I find the more out of head experience works with the room "size" setting turned to the left. Using J River media player as vst host. Anyone have much experience with this media player ie as far as updates go? I'm thinking of buying it (currently trial version) seems to be a polished software and another thing I like about J River is the ability to play youtube from within the player, able to apply your effects. I tried foobar with plugins but the sound quality didn't sound good.


----------



## Velocity

Im not that impressed. I doesnt matter how I turn those knobs. It sure give a more WOW experience, maybe a bit more hi-fi feeling... I could actually put this on just to impress a friend. But for pure yoy musiclissening I rather turn this of, in every case. It just destroys the wonderful sq of the hd 650, making it sound thinner and cheaper. Electronic music with single drum kicks snares sound like the have a weird eco behind them.   
   
  For me this didnt cut it, but then I really not wanted to change the sound of my hd 650. But it was fun to try.


----------



## lovleylady

Quote: 





velocity said:


> Im not that impressed. I doesnt matter how I turn those knobs. It sure give a more WOW experience, maybe a bit more hi-fi feeling... I could actually put this on just to impress a friend. But for pure yoy musiclissening I rather turn this of, in every case. It just destroys the wonderful sq of the hd 650, making it sound thinner and cheaper. Electronic music with single drum kicks snares sound like the have a weird eco behind them.
> 
> For me this didnt cut it, but then I really not wanted to change the sound of my hd 650. But it was fun to try.


 

 Same for me actually. Sure it's cool when you turn it on at first, but the sound creeps back in the head and the enjoyment creeps out...
  I've tried it many times and just not on/off-ing but really gave it a good try. Every time I turn it off I get a "wow-feeling" because my phones sound so good without it.
   
  Hugs. LL


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





velocity said:


> Im not that impressed. I doesnt matter how I turn those knobs. It sure give a more WOW experience, maybe a bit more hi-fi feeling... I could actually put this on just to impress a friend. But for pure yoy musiclissening I rather turn this of, in every case. It just destroys the wonderful sq of the hd 650, making it sound thinner and cheaper. Electronic music with single drum kicks snares sound like the have a weird eco behind them.
> 
> For me this didnt cut it, but then I really not wanted to change the sound of my hd 650. But it was fun to try.


 

 Quote:


lovleylady said:


> Same for me actually. Sure it's cool when you turn it on at first, but the sound creeps back in the head and the enjoyment creeps out...
> I've tried it many times and just not on/off-ing but really gave it a good try. Every time I turn it off I get a "wow-feeling" because my phones sound so good without it.
> 
> Hugs. LL


 
   
  The fact is, the entire concept behind headphones was flawed to begin with, ever since it was invented around 1910. It's a device meant to be convenient/practical, and was never meant to sound natural and enjoyable. All headphones since then are still based on the same structural arrangement of strapping speakers to your head, with unnaturally close proximity to your eardrums. This has always been a bad idea, and every effort that's been made by high-end headphone companies, has been to combat this inherent flaw. The fact that a segment of the population has developed a taste for the inherent flaw of headphones is a symptom, not proof that it's a valid and superior concept for natural sounding audio. 

 And because there's this conditioned bias for unnatural sound from headphones, some of you don't understand what Isone is actually for, and what the reasons are for someone to use it. It's not meant to keep the sound exactly the same as your headphones--its job is to make it sound like there's a virtual room and a pair of speakers in front of you, so of course it's going to sound different than two speakers strapped to your head right next to your ears. If it still sounded like two speakers with their drivers right next to your ears only a centimeter away, then it would have failed its job. The reason you dislike how Isone sounds is because you have been conditioned to prefer the unnatural sound of headphones--it's really that simple. In fact, we all are to some degree, or else we wouldn't be members of head-fi. But that doesn't mean we can't try to make headphones sound more natural, if we have the tools to make it so.
   
  What you "think" you prefer, is basically strapping speakers right next to your ears, but you'd never listen to speakers that way, would you? If you didn't logically know that nobody does such a ridiculous thing, and no one will reprimand or laugh at you for doing it, you'd probably prefer the sound of speakers next to your ears over having speakers in their proper positions too. The only reason you probably won't do it is because you don't know how to strap speakers to your head, and speakers are too heavy. Hell, you can have people talking straight into your ears all day too, with their mouths just a centimeter from your eardrums; you'd be able to hear every breath and every wet sounds from inside the mouth. To you, it would seem more detailed and with less echo as well.
   
  See, it's all an illusion, based on lack of understanding of how natural acoustic spaces are meant to sound. Of course pushing drivers up next to your ears is going to sound "more clear" and without any "echoes," because you're deleting the entire acoustic space from the equation altogether, and acoustic spaces are supposed to have some kind of reverb and a sense of distance from your ears. Human beings and all other animals are supposed to hear sounds in natural acoustic environments--that's how we can place positions in the 3D space properly. That is what Isone gives back to headphone listeners, and it's unfortunate that some of you don't  understand the significance of what it does (and does so damn well), and why it's superior to the unnatural sound in the inherent flawed design of headphones. 
   
  In a way, the conditioned preference for the unnatural sound of headphones is just like how typical consumers are "wowed" by smiley disco sonic signatures, and would prefer artificial sounding processing like the various enhancing effects from Creative's sound cards. 
   
  There's a reason why Isone was designed by and for audio professionals, and was never marketed to typical consumers--it's because typical consumers lack the advanced understanding of audio to appreciate what Isone does. The only reason this community has become more aware of Isone is because I made a prolonged effort to explain what it does and why you'd want to use it. But I can't in one fell swoop reverse the years of conditioning many of you have had from consumer audio trends. Only those of you who are serious about attaining more advanced understanding of audio will shed your consumer biases.


----------



## Velocity

"the entire concept behind headphones was flawed to begin with*"*
  Of course, in directly comparing with speakers. Its not that a vst going to change the fact that the drivers are 2-4 cm from your head. 
   
"and was never meant to sound natural and enjoyable"
My phones with the isone sounds either natural or enjoyable.
   
  "The reason you dislike how Isone sounds is because you have been conditioned to prefer the unnatural sound of headphones"
Thats just so ignorant that I wanna puke. What is it with you, are you a seller for ToneBoosters or what ?
   
"What you "think" you prefer"
Are you going to tell me that I just fool myself into thinking that headphones sound good or what?
   

 No, no. You talking so much **** that I got sick reading your comment.


----------



## Windsor

Just curious - what are your favourite Isone presets for the majority of the music you listen to? I tend to mostly listen with the Crossfeed + CRC or Near Field Setup presets.


----------



## Matt head 777

I really enjoy the Isone, you gotta get the settings right their are a lot of them. Maybe some people are conditioned to headphone listening. I haven't perfected settings or anything but try "natural crossfeed" turn the "room" to the left, assume my head and ears are past the 50% setting. So it doesn't become too reverberant you can adjust the speaker listening distance to give a good speaker simulation that isn't over the top. If you didn't like isone I don't see why you can't just try a very subtle effect...
   
  What does CRC setting do?


----------



## Windsor

Quote:


matt head 777 said:


> I really enjoy the Isone, you gotta get the settings right their are a lot of them. Maybe some people are conditioned to headphone listening. I haven't perfected settings or anything but try "natural crossfeed" turn the "room" to the left, assume my head and ears are past the 50% setting. So it doesn't become too reverberant you can adjust the speaker listening distance to give a good speaker simulation that isn't over the top. If you didn't like isone I don't see why you can't just try a very subtle effect...
> 
> What does CRC setting do?


 


  A detailed description of what the CRC setting does can be found in page ten of the Isone manual. Basically, when applied, the CRC setting reduces some of the low end energy i.e. bass energy that can accumulate when crossfeed settings are applied.


----------



## lovleylady

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> ...
> [click bubble-arrow to see full quote]


 
  Hi Lunatique.

 Thanks for the very ambitious reply, didn't realize this was so important to you, didn't mean to offend either you or Isone.

 Also thank you very much for the entire thread, I've read alot here and it's fun and really gives something good to the forum.

 I just wanted to say that it wasn't for me.

 Here's some direct replys to your reply on my reply:

 What I "think" I prefer is actully exactly what I prefer since thats what I'm thinking. Kind of the definition of preferences I think.

 "_The fact is, the entire concept behind headphones was flawed to begin with, ever since it was invented around 1910. It's a device meant to be convenient/practical, and was never meant to sound natural and enjoyable._"

 Maybe things changed since 1910, maybe it's meant to be enjoyed today? Just like when bacon was invented, salted and smoked so it wouldn't go bad not so it would taste natural or good, but here we are with our refrigerators, still makin' bacon.

 "_There's a reason why Isone was designed by and for audio professionals, and was never marketed to typical consumers--it's because typical consumers lack the advanced understanding of audio to appreciate what Isone does._"

 I'm not a musician nor a audio professional. I'm just happy if it sounds good to my ears and expectations.
 I can agree that headphones probably doesn't sound natural, atleast not natural in the way you and lot's of people define it, but what sounds good or natural is kind of a personal thing.

 "_Human beings and all other animals are supposed to hear sounds in natural acoustic environments--that's how we can place positions in the 3D space properly._"

 We don't live in the jungle anymore, we don't need to identify exactly from were the scary electric guitar is coming to survive. One could argue that we're not "supposed" to reprodce sounds at all, let's just sit around and listen to the natural sounds of our beloved mother earth.

 I know your intentions are good Lunatique, but you don't need to save us from our lack of understaning and typical consumer preferences.
 I know that many people enjoy Isone which is great! Not trying to make people not like it. I like it as a gadget but not for music enjoyment.
   
  Cheers!
   
  LL


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:




> Originally Posted by *Lunatique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...








 Okay.  There's really nothing "advanced" to understand about Isone.  It's a crossfeed program written to simulate rooms and HRTFs.  And some folks like it, some don't.  *Whether they do or do not does not indicate whether they understand it sufficiently or not.*  _That's a leap in logic you're making._  

So (please) cut the condescending tone.


----------



## Photogeo180

[size=medium]Just finished reading this PhD level thread and I am trying to organize my questions. [/size]
  [size=medium]This will take a lot of time, so first let me thank all the people who contributed their opinion here, even though often they added more confusion to the brain of the newbie (myself in that case…)[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Anyway, here is my first set of questions to the experts:[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Do Beyerdynamic DT880/250 and Sennh HD650 need to be equalized in order for TB Isone to deliver what it is supposed to deliver? [/size]
  [size=medium]If we take Isone out of the setup, is EQing headphones a necessary step towards sound neutrality? [/size]
   
  [size=medium]If yes, is there any easy way to EQ them? Or EQing headphones is such a complicated endeavor that it would be better for a newbie to limit his ambition and just forget about it?[/size]
   
  [size=medium]What is more, could someone who owns a pair of HD650 and lacks the necessary knowledge just use the EQ presets that Lunatique generously posted in another thread?[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Last but not least, in the Isone window, program menu (Welcome to Isone, Minimal crossfeed etc), what is the ideal selection (if there is any) for someone who just needs to bring the sound of their headphones closer to an average listening experience/setup with speakers?[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Best to all head-fiers  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



[/size]


----------



## Windsor

Quote:


photogeo180 said:


> [size=medium]Do Beyerdynamic DT880/250 and Sennh HD650 need to be equalized in order for TB Isone to deliver what it is supposed to deliver? [/size]
> [size=medium]No, TB ISone will deliver its settings within the colour/character of the sound created by the headphones you are using. [/size]
> 
> [size=medium]If we take Isone out of the setup, is EQing headphones a necessary step towards sound neutrality?[/size]
> ...


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





windsor said:


> Quote:


 

 Yep, Windsor nailed it. I would've given the exact same answers.
   
  My software signal chain is basically like this:
   
  J River Media Center, running plugins (in the order of the signal chain): Easy-Q, Isone, Volume Leveling (track based, fixed, +5 dB).
   
  If I'm listening to speakers, then I add the ARC system in front of Easy-Q, deactivate Isone, and keep the Volume Leveling.


----------



## clarknova

My god , this software is amazing. I'm hearing details in songs I haven't heard before.
   
  But wow I'm overwhelmed with the options.


----------



## bowei006

Ok guys the instructions on the VST thread are outdated so here it is for simple one's
  
 You need
 foobar
 http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=84947 (wiki- http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Components/VST_adapter)
 http://www.toneboosters.com/download/ (get x86, doesn't matter if you have x64 system)
  
 Now go to foobar, and go to hydrogen audio. Download the stable release. Instal it in foobar. Restart foobar. Now download the tone boosters and move to a folder anywhere. Now open up foobar hit CTRL+P to open up prefrences(remember, the hydrogenaudio plugin VST.dbl or something should be installed by now). now in "components" section click the drop down arrow. See the VST Plugins place? Now add the VSTS from the toneboosters folder. I added all the one's that said "isone" and then reverb and "omnisone" and also "timemachine" 
  
 for original plugins:
 http://audioz.info/audiosoft/10016-jeroen-breebaart-isone-pro-vst-v101.html
  
 Try these too...and wow..these sound like I have studio monitor's...but I don't!!!!
  
  
  
  Ok just tested original plugin's.....the tonebooster one's are vastly superior to them I am currently using 
   
  "TB Isone Surround" "TB Time Machine" "TB Omnisone" adding and taking each one off adds or reduces an effect slightly (you want isone surround to stay and mixmatch the next two)


----------



## TWIFOSP

I tried this plugin and the effect is convincing but at the end of the day the reduction in sound quality was too much.  Lower frequencies trail off and become muddy.  Bass guitars and tubas lose texture.  Percussion trails off and loses punch and reverb.  Any of the HTRF functions make high frequncies clip and add sibilance.  Cymbals sound tinny processed and fake as hell with it enabled.
   
  I really wanted to like it because soundstage and image are super important to me.  But I just can't lose myself in the music when the processing brings out such flaws.


----------



## Oregonian

Can you run your iTunes library through it?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Can you run your iTunes library through it?


 


  As in can you play your songs? Yeah of course. Just play them in a player that supports VST with the plugins enabled and play whatever


----------



## Windsor

Quote:


oregonian said:


> Can you run your iTunes library through it?


 

 Yes. One way is by using Audio Hijack Pro to route iTunes to TB Isone. You can download a demo of AHP and try it for free.


----------



## Photogeo180

To Lunatique and Windsor:
   
  Thank you so much for your prompt and valuable replies.
  People with your experience, knowledge and willingness to help make this community very beautiful!


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





windsor said:


> Quote:
> 
> Yes. One way is by using Audio Hijack Pro to route iTunes to TB Isone. You can download a demo of AHP and try it for free.


 
   

 Thank you................


----------



## Matt head 777

At first time I really enjoyed the tb isone but now I'm not sure I like it. Currently I'm trying redline monitor, it doesn't bring the sound outside of your head like isone and it doesn't seem to have so much reverberant room effect, but it might keep the sound more like the original. tb isone may even on minimum settings alter the sound too much? Still testing.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





matt head 777 said:


> At first time I really enjoyed the tb isone but now I'm not sure I like it. Currently I'm trying redline monitor, it doesn't bring the sound outside of your head like isone and it doesn't seem to have so much reverberant room effect, but it might keep the sound more like the original. tb isone may even on minimum settings alter the sound too much? Still testing.


 
   
  For all of you who are concerned about the reverberation of Isone (or how Redline Monitor is different), you kind of have to just see it this way:
   
  -If you want to keep the sound as close to how headphone's frequency response is supposed to sound like, being only centimeters away from your eardrums, but want crossfeed so you don't suffer from the drastic stereo panning inherent to headphones, then Redline Monitor is what you want (or any other simple crossfeed out there).
   
  -If you want your headphones to actually sound like speakers placed in front of you, at a distance, inside a room, then Isone is what you want. BUT, you have to keep in mind that if your headphones became speakers placed in a room in front of you at a distance, then it will no longer sound exactly like how headphones sound when they are only centimeters away from your eardrums on either side of your head. To expect otherwise would be completely missing the whole point of using Isone. With Isone, your headphone is SUPPOSED to sound different--that's why you'd use Isone in the first place--to make them sound like speakers in a room, not headphones on your head. 
   
  So if you don't know what your goals are or have incorrect expectations, you're going to dislike Isone, because you are not using it for the right reasons. If you don't like Isone, just use Redline Monitor or other simple crossfeeds. But don't continue to expect Isone to sound like headphones on your head. It is supposed to like speakers put at a distance in front of you, inside a room--which WILL change the frequency response of your headphone as the sound interaction with the complex math of HRTF, which takes into consideration how your head and ear shape/sizes alter the frequency response of sounds, as well as how the sound interacts with the acoustics of the virtual room. 
   
  I'm not sure why that is so hard to understand. If you take a pair of speakers and put them right next to your ears, at the same distance as how close headphones are to your ears, it's going to sound different from when the speakers are placed at a distance in front of you, while the sound is shaped by the acoustics of the room. You wouldn't expect the speakers to sound exactly the same in the two different placements, would you? Then why would you expect your headphones to sound exactly the same when Isone puts it in a virtual room and placed at a distance in front of you?


----------



## Matt head 777

true as sounding like a room it will change the sound, it's just whether it still sounds good. I like the sound of real speaker s in my room, but do I like isone, does it replicate speakers well? Still need to listen more. I just got my lcd-2 r2 bamboos so still mucking around. Also been trying dolby headphone, I'm not sure how it works as far as applying crossfeed and hrtf.


----------



## Matt head 777

enjoying the sound of Isone with LCD-2 r 2, without it the sound can be raucous with my headphones. I don't notice distortion as long as the speaker level setting isn't too high.


----------



## TWIFOSP

It's not just reverberation.  It completely mangles the sound.  Bass sounds muddy, percussion sounds wrong, cymbals have have compressed tinny sounds.  The rest of your post you try and explain why these are acceptable trade offs to get the image right.  And I disagree 100%.
   
  In my chain I currnetly have a Lavry DA11 and a SPL Phonitor.  Both the Phonitor and DA11 are capable of moving the image to center, and the Phonitor has adjustable crossfeed.  Neither of these activities attempt to simulate room [size=10pt]acoustics [/size]and add echo and reverb, so it's not quite the same as Isone. That said, the effect of correcting the image is much much better than Isone.  It doesn't distort the sound in any audible ways.  I can get my headphones to sound like they are in front of me as monitors, rather than headphones.  The effect is much more convincing than the isone because it doesn't mangle the sound so much that it now sounds like I'm listening to youtube on low quality. 
   
  You go on to attempt to tell everyone that if they don't like it, that we are using it for the wrong reasons.  That is evangelist talk.  You shouldn't dismiss people's opinions just because they aren't in line with yours.  My goals are the exact same as yours.  To reduce brain fatigue by having the sound coming out of my headphones sound natural.  My goal with audio reproduction is to attempt to get my system to sound as close to all of the live events I've been to as possible.  Imaging is a big part of that.
   
  For the cost, Isone is a great product and I really hope that they continue to improve their processing so the sound will have a bit more fidelity after the plugins are done.  For now, however, a correct image is simply not worth the reduction in sound quality.
   
   
  Quote: 





lunatique said:


> For all of you who are concerned about the reverberation of Isone (or how Redline Monitor is different), you kind of have to just see it this way:
> 
> -If you want to keep the sound as close to how headphone's frequency response is supposed to sound like, being only centimeters away from your eardrums, but want crossfeed so you don't suffer from the drastic stereo panning inherent to headphones, then Redline Monitor is what you want (or any other simple crossfeed out there).
> 
> ...


----------



## Matt head 777

I think saying isone lowers the quality to like low quality youtube videos is over the top. When I first tried isone it gave me the wow factor and comparing it again later it still has the quality.
   
  Anyway l've been trying other plugins and players and one I just come across that _works _with the plugins I like is qmp media player "Quintessential Media Player". I tried winamp but it was too buggy.. Two plugins worth trying out if you want to get spacious out of head experience is "Sheppi free spatial enhancer" I'm trying it with "headplug". The other worth checking out is Wavesurround with setting "stereo to headphones". Cool eq I'm using is "Electi-Q".


----------



## TWIFOSP

Does the demo version lower the quality compared to the paid for version?  Because it definitely sounds compressed.
   
  Quote: 





matt head 777 said:


> I think saying isone lowers the quality to like low quality youtube videos is over the top. When I first tried isone it gave me the wow factor and comparing it again later it still has the quality.
> 
> Anyway l've been trying other plugins and players and one I just come across that _works _with the plugins I like is qmp media player "Quintessential Media Player". I tried winamp but it was too buggy.. Two plugins worth trying out if you want to get spacious out of head experience is "Sheppi free spatial enhancer" I'm trying it with "headplug". The other worth checking out is Wavesurround with setting "stereo to headphones". Cool eq I'm using is "Electi-Q".


----------



## kalston

Erm, according to the site the only difference between the trial and the full version is that it doesn't remember the settings.
   
  Default settings don't sound great to me but after changing two settings (flat preset + nearfield distance) it sounds great to me and not compressed at all.


----------



## TWIFOSP

I tooled around with it for hours.  I really wanted it to work.  I tried every preset and fooled around with the settings for a very long time.  No matter what I did, to some degree, bass (especially percussion) was muddy and sounds like cymbals had compression artifacts.
  Quote: 





kalston said:


> Erm, according to the site the only difference between the trial and the full version is that it doesn't remember the settings.
> 
> Default settings don't sound great to me but after changing two settings (flat preset + nearfield distance) it sounds great to me and not compressed at all.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





twifosp said:


> It's not just reverberation.  It completely mangles the sound.  Bass sounds muddy, percussion sounds wrong, cymbals have have compressed tinny sounds.  The rest of your post you try and explain why these are acceptable trade offs to get the image right.  And I disagree 100%.
> 
> In my chain I currnetly have a Lavry DA11 and a SPL Phonitor.  Both the Phonitor and DA11 are capable of moving the image to center, and the Phonitor has adjustable crossfeed.  Neither of these activities attempt to simulate room [size=10pt]acoustics [/size]and add echo and reverb, so it's not quite the same as Isone. That said, the effect of correcting the image is much much better than Isone.  It doesn't distort the sound in any audible ways.  I can get my headphones to sound like they are in front of me as monitors, rather than headphones.  The effect is much more convincing than the isone because it doesn't mangle the sound so much that it now sounds like I'm listening to youtube on low quality.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't hear this compressed mess you're talking about, and I've been using Isone since the pre-ToneBooster brand versions, and have listened to countless music of all types with it in both critical and leisurely scenarios, including using it during music production to track, mix, and master.
   
  Jeroen is an expert audio engineer who has forgotten more about DSP processing than most have learned. If there was indeed this compressed mess you're talking about, don't you think an expert like him would have noticed it? Check his biography--the guy's written books on DSP processing, worked for Phlips Research as an DSP expert, worked on the MPEG standard, and so on: http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/home_bio.htm
   
  He's also a very nice guy, open-minded, friendly, and down-to-earth. I suggest you contact him and tell him about your opinion on his product and see what says. I've contact him numerous times in the past and gave him my feedback and suggestions, and he's been very receptive, as well as very patient.


----------



## kalston

Since I've been using it for a few days and have only positive things to say about it, I just bought it. Thanks for this thread Lunatique, I am really amazed at how well this works with my current headphones (I remember that I disliked it with my older headphones for some reason). I also happen to like the surround version of Isone (much more than Dolby Headphones) so since that's free and I've been using it for some time, I'm happy to give this guy my money.


----------



## TWIFOSP

I'm not the only one who notices the compression sound, this thread has multiple people describing the same issue.  
   
  If it is a setting or something that I have wrong that can be fixed, I'll happily retract anything I've said about it.  
   
   
  Quote: 





lunatique said:


> I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't hear this compressed mess you're talking about, and I've been using Isone since the pre-ToneBooster brand versions, and have listened to countless music of all types with it in both critical and leisurely scenarios, including using it during music production to track, mix, and master.
> 
> Jeroen is an expert audio engineer who has forgotten more about DSP processing than most have learned. If there was indeed this compressed mess you're talking about, don't you think an expert like him would have noticed it? Check his biography--the guy's written books on DSP processing, worked for Phlips Research as an DSP expert, worked on the MPEG standard, and so on: http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/home_bio.htm
> 
> He's also a very nice guy, open-minded, friendly, and down-to-earth. I suggest you contact him and tell him about your opinion on his product and see what says. I've contact him numerous times in the past and gave him my feedback and suggestions, and he's been very receptive, as well as very patient.


----------



## zhenya

Quote: 





twifosp said:


> I'm not the only one who notices the compression sound, this thread has multiple people describing the same issue.
> 
> If it is a setting or something that I have wrong that can be fixed, I'll happily retract anything I've said about it.


 
   

 Simple, but are you certain you've adjusted the Speaker Volume to just below clipping?
   
  I can't say that I've noticed any compression (and I'll note that I'm extremely sensitive to digital compression artifacts, and have taken the blind tests to determine at what level I can discern compression from the original); what I do notice that ultimately led me to largely stop using it was a sacrifice in the lack of detail for the gain in speaker effect.  On some recordings it's worth it, on most others, well, that's why I listen to headphones.  And no, I don't think that a good set of speakers in a proper room would suffer from this same loss of detail.  However that would require a dedicated listening room and loud volumes, neither of which I care for.


----------



## TWIFOSP

Yes.  And I'm using Jriver media center, which allows you to monitor the clipping level or set it to protect at 100%. 
   
  I'm thinking I should put together a test clip of just various cymbals to demonstrate what I'm talking about.
  Quote: 





zhenya said:


> Simple, but are you certain you've adjusted the Speaker Volume to just below clipping?
> 
> I can't say that I've noticed any compression (and I'll note that I'm extremely sensitive to digital compression artifacts, and have taken the blind tests to determine at what level I can discern compression from the original); what I do notice that ultimately led me to largely stop using it was a sacrifice in the lack of detail for the gain in speaker effect.  On some recordings it's worth it, on most others, well, that's why I listen to headphones.  And no, I don't think that a good set of speakers in a proper room would suffer from this same loss of detail.  However that would require a dedicated listening room and loud volumes, neither of which I care for.


----------



## Matt head 777

have you tried wavesurround? it gets the sound out of your head and uses hrtf. Also Sheppi tho I'm not sure its design is specifically for headphones it takes the sound out of your head and gives you a presentation bit like isone but perhaps without the losses. Both plugins work with QMP media player. J river doesn't work with wavesurround for me.


----------



## TWIFOSP

I have not.  I've stopped messing around with software because I found a solution for correct imaging.  It is a combination of analog crossfeed from my amp, and digital processing from my dac.   I can adjust this on the fly for either of my headphones since they have drastically different sound stages.  (HD800 and LCD2).  It allows me to place the music in front of my head, and more importantly, puts the image sounding like it comes from one source instead of two.  With the LCD2 in particular, you can get that V shaped image coming from in front of you.  Especially on classic rock recordings where you have the bass guitar left of center and vocals off on one channel.  Using that cominbation I can put the image back in front without any impact to the tonality.
   
  Quote: 





matt head 777 said:


> have you tried wavesurround? it gets the sound out of your head and uses hrtf. Also Sheppi tho I'm not sure its design is specifically for headphones it takes the sound out of your head and gives you a presentation bit like isone but perhaps without the losses. Both plugins work with QMP media player. J river doesn't work with wavesurround for me.


----------



## Matt head 777

After using wavesurround I'm not as keen on it compared to sheppi and headplug. Anyone understand the settings with headplug?
   
  Edit: not happy with QMP with sheppi and headplug, not sure what problem is but seems to be some distortion.


----------



## fluidz

Hi all,
   
  Tried the link to Isone Pro, and it only leads me to Isone, not Isone pro.  In fact I can't see any "isone pro" on the site at all.  Has the dev renamed it and removed the "pro" extension from the name?


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





fluidz said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Tried the link to Isone Pro, and it only leads me to Isone, not Isone pro.  In fact I can't see any "isone pro" on the site at all.  Has the dev renamed it and removed the "pro" extension from the name?


 
  Yes, the name's been changed.


----------



## lovleylady

Is it only the name that have changed?
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





lovleylady said:


> Is it only the name that have changed?
> 
> Cheers!


 
   
  No, he updated the plugin with more features and the entire GUI's changed too. There are images of Isone Pro on the web--just google for it. He also updated the DSP algorithm as well. I prefer Isone Pro myself--both the GUI and that it's a bit more user-friendly, and although it has fewer features, does everything I need already.


----------



## BoogieWoogie

Mmm I'm using with foobar and I get no where near out of head speaker like effect, just a tiny bit further effect.. And with Isone Surround there's some compression/distortion when applied. What am I missing ?


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





boogiewoogie said:


> Mmm I'm using with foobar and I get no where near out of head speaker like effect, just a tiny bit further effect.. And with Isone Surround there's some compression/distortion when applied. What am I missing ?


 
  Did you listen to a piece of music that has drastic stereo panning, or it only had mild stereo separation? If you pick a piece of music that has dramatic stereo panning, such as a guitar panned all the way on the left or right channel, or a ping-pong delay/panning of a synth, or something, you'll REALLY notice the effect. Remember, not all music are mixed to have the same level of stereo separation. There will be some music that were mixed to have mild stereo separation, and you won't notice much of a difference, while there will be some songs that will sound dramatically different with Isone.
   
  I'm going to share a track with you guys--one that I always use to test out how good a crossfeed works. It's a demo clip for one of the hardware synthesizers that Waldorf made, and it's got one of the most dramatic stereo ping pong-panning ever, and it demonstrates the effects of a crossfeed better than any other track I know of because of its unique effect:
   
  http://www.mediafire.com/?vq1ntg6dou7x122
   
  Download this and play it through Isone. Turn on and off Isone, and you'll hear a dramatic difference, and be able to hear exactly what Isone is doing.


----------



## BoogieWoogie

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> Did you listen to a piece of music that has drastic stereo panning, or it only had mild stereo separation? If you pick a piece of music that has dramatic stereo panning, such as a guitar panned all the way on the left or right channel, or a ping-pong delay/panning of a synth, or something, you'll REALLY notice the effect. Remember, not all music are mixed to have the same level of stereo separation. There will be some music that were mixed to have mild stereo separation, and you won't notice much of a difference, while there will be some songs that will sound dramatically different with Isone.
> 
> I'm going to share a track with you guys--one that I always use to test out how good a crossfeed works. It's a demo clip for one of the hardware synthesizers that Waldorf made, and it's got one of the most dramatic stereo ping pong-panning ever, and it demonstrates the effects of a crossfeed better than any other track I know of because of its unique effect:
> 
> ...


 
  I just tested with your file and its more noticeable but again its just a few cms upfront dolby effect like, nothing like speaker effect you mentioned. I was expecting something similar to the realizer but nop.


----------



## TWIFOSP

Quote: 





boogiewoogie said:


> Mmm I'm using with foobar and I get no where near out of head speaker like effect, just a tiny bit further effect.. And with Isone Surround there's some compression/distortion when applied. What am I missing ?


 
   
  I had similar experiences.  I don't think you are missing anything.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





boogiewoogie said:


> I just tested with your file and its more noticeable but again its just a few cms upfront dolby effect like, nothing like speaker effect you mentioned. I was expecting something similar to the realizer but nop.


 
  Did you actually calibrate Isone as instructed in the user's manual?
   
  Also, you realize you are comparing a hardware unit that costs thousands of dollars to a plug-in that costs 20 Euro?


----------



## BoogieWoogie

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> Did you actually calibrate Isone as instructed in the user's manual?
> 
> Also, you realize you are comparing a hardware unit that costs thousands of dollars to a plug-in that costs 20 Euro?


 
  Yeah its unfair but there's no out of the head effect. I didn't read the manual but there's just a few buttons and tried all.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





boogiewoogie said:


> Yeah its unfair but there's no out of the head effect. I didn't read the manual but there's just a few buttons and tried all.


 
   
  You can't just arbitrarily try all the buttons on any piece of gear and expect to "calibrate" it properly if you don't even know what the buttons do and how they work together. HRTF requires you match the settings to size of your head and ears and the user manual tells you how to do this in detail. 
   
  And plenty of people love the realistic illusion Isone creates of having speakers in front of you. Even seasoned professional mixers and mastering engineers are often fooled by it, thinking they'd left their studio monitors on when in fact, the monitors were turned off and only the heaphone is on, with Isone activated.


----------



## kalston

Wow, that sample is indeed great to show what isone does. 
  Quote: 





lunatique said:


> Did you listen to a piece of music that has drastic stereo panning, or it only had mild stereo separation? If you pick a piece of music that has dramatic stereo panning, such as a guitar panned all the way on the left or right channel, or a ping-pong delay/panning of a synth, or something, you'll REALLY notice the effect. Remember, not all music are mixed to have the same level of stereo separation. There will be some music that were mixed to have mild stereo separation, and you won't notice much of a difference, while there will be some songs that will sound dramatically different with Isone.
> 
> I'm going to share a track with you guys--one that I always use to test out how good a crossfeed works. It's a demo clip for one of the hardware synthesizers that Waldorf made, and it's got one of the most dramatic stereo ping pong-panning ever, and it demonstrates the effects of a crossfeed better than any other track I know of because of its unique effect:
> 
> ...


----------



## BoogieWoogie

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> You can't just arbitrarily try all the buttons on any piece of gear and expect to "calibrate" it properly if you don't even know what the buttons do and how they work together. HRTF requires you match the settings to size of your head and ears and the user manual tells you how to do this in detail.
> 
> And plenty of people love the realistic illusion Isone creates of having speakers in front of you. Even seasoned professional mixers and mastering engineers are often fooled by it, thinking they'd left their studio monitors on when in fact, the monitors were turned off and only the heaphone is on, with Isone activated.


 
  I mean, I tried several times with different settings. You say that maybe its the recordings and I need to use that test tone for the true experience.
  Then I see it's not really an out of head speaker like effect you mentioned or the effect would be the same with whatever recording just like the realizer. 
   
  Also the VST adapter could be messing with the effects, dunno.


----------



## Lunatique

Okay, now there's another plug-in that is a lot like Redline Monitor, called Monitor MSX5, by G-Sonique:
http://www.g-sonique.com/msx5headphonemonitoring.html
   

   
  Quote: 





twifosp said:


> Can you post some links to these discussions?


 
  Generally speaking, Jeroen Breebaart is sometimes referred by those in the pro audio community as a "genius." He's a very respected for all of his accomplishments and expertise in DSP processing, setting audio standards, and establishing patents. 
   
http://meetgenius.com/people/jeroen-breebaart.html
   
http://www.patentgenius.com/inventedby/BreebaartJeroenEindhovenNL.html
   
  A brief bio:
   
  "Jeroen is a Principal Scientist and Cluster Manager at Philips Research, The Netherlands. Jeroen received an MSc degree in biomedical engineering from the Eindhoven University of Technology in 1997, and a PhD degree in psychophysics from the same university in 2001.
   
  From 2001 to 2007, Jeroen was with the Digital Signal Processing group at Philips Research, conducting research in the areas of spatial hearing, parametric audio coding, automatic audio content analysis and audio effects processing. His work on audio compression has been incorporated in several international standards, including MPEG-4, MPEG Surround, 3GPP, DVB and the upcoming standard for spatial audio object coding (SAOC).
   
  Since 2007 he has been the leader of the Signal Processing for Safety cluster of the Information and System Security Group at Philips Research, expanding his signal processing expertise towards biometrics and safety. He actively participates in the ISO/IEC IT security techniques standardization committee, the ISO/IEC Biometrics standardization committee, and is involved in several EU-funded projects (3D FACE and TURBINE).
   
  Jeroen is a member of the IEEE and the Audio Engineering Society. He regularly acts as peer reviewer, published about 60 papers for external conferences and journals, co-authored and co-edited two books and was granted several patents. In his free time, he develops audio signal processing algorithms for professional use."
   
http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/
   
  Discussions about Isone and Jeroen's plug-ins:
   
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4376933#4376933
   
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3983676#3983676
   
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3985226#3985226
   
http://www.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=1001360&sid=cb589cba5e96f25c700c44ae6a44064f#1001360
   
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3986162#3986162
   
http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=213770&p=2522366#p2531785
   
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=301273&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
   
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=2534346&mpage=1#2547407
   
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=60715
   
   


sphinxvc said:


> Lunatique, how does Isone compensate for angled drivers?  Were headphones with angled drivers or non-angled drivers used when writing the algorithm?


 
   
  You should probably ask Jeroen that.


----------



## TWIFOSP

So the guy that made it likes it?  Noted.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





twifosp said:


> So the guy that made it likes it?  Noted.


 
  Now you're just being contentious. I posted a bunch of links where pro audio guys talked about accidentally yanking their headphones out when using Isone because they thought they were listening to their studio monitors and forgot that they had headphones on, or how they thought Isone gave them very realistic emulation of some of the best mixing/mastering rooms they've been in, or how they greatly respect Jeroen's knowledge and expertise. Did you bother reading them (you asked for them too)? Instead, you chose to make another snide remark.


----------



## proton007

Wow, some of you pressed some buttons here and there, and there was no effect! How sad! 
  If this is how most consumers use products nowadays, no wonder things are getting dumbed down.
   
  @Lunatique, I don't think its worth wasting time with them. Thanks for recommending the plugin.


----------



## crumpler

Haters are gonna hate. Just leave them be.
   
  I for one, am thoroughly enjoying the Isone Pro Plugin! 
   
  @Lunatique, can't thank you enough for the recommendation!


----------



## Matt head 777

Well Isone changes the sound no doubt when switching back with and without effect. On one mind I'm thinking yeah it changes it heaps, but on the other when I don't consider how it sounds without effect (as if the effect was the only sound you can get) it sounds really good. So is the headphone only sound more correct? The fact is the effect sounds good to me.
   
  I recommend trying Sheppi plugin with isone it makes the center image more solid and in front of you ie vocals. You know how some of the plugins or sound in general makes the sound come from in front of you but it still sounds abit like it's in you head abit (not solidly placed away from you) Well sheppi with isone helps with that. With Sheppi I found to be good conservatively set, it's like sugar to your ears too much and it can make you feel sickened a little. It can become too wet with heavy settings. Please try it, it's free, you literally feel the sound dragging from your head when you switch it on or off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 NOTE It might sound better to put isone first in chain.
   

   
  I've tried heaps of plugins and a few players, I also like dolby headphone played in PowerDVD 12.


----------



## kalston

Quote: 





twifosp said:


> So the guy that made it likes it?  Noted.


 
   
  You're not going to achieve anything by trolling.


----------



## TWIFOSP

I can admit I'm being a bit over the top here, but I just having a hard time believing that these "professionals", can't tell the difference between gear on their head and monitors.  The sound signature with this plugin sounds extremely altered and the effect isn't even that convincing.  
   
  Sounds like a bunch of used car salesman talk to me.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





twifosp said:


> I can admit I'm being a bit over the top here, but I just having a hard time believing that these "professionals", can't tell the difference between gear on their head and monitors.  The sound signature with this plugin sounds extremely altered and the effect isn't even that convincing.
> 
> Sounds like a bunch of used car salesman talk to me.


 
   
  Except the people who found it very convincing actually took the time to read the user's manual, follow its instructions on how to calibrate the HRTF to match their head and ear sizes, match the speaker distance/angle to their studio monitors, as well as the type of speaker cabinet/format, and the room size, of their studio. They basically worked at trying to recreate their real life listening position with Isone. Did you do all of that? Do you know what their production studios sound like? Can you say with 100% certainty that what they got from Isone isn't actually very similar to what their production studios sound like? Were you there when they did the listening tests? If not, then of course you aren't hearing what they heard and you have no idea what they heard or what they were comparing it to.
   
  And none of those people are selling anything. They get excited about something they feel is awesome, just like how people typically do. They rave about stuff they love and want to spread the word about it--just like you probably have done at some point in your life--be it a movie, a TV show, a band, a restaurant, a headphone, a plugin--whatever. 
   
  Just because you don't agree with them, does not mean they are somehow being insincere or trying to pull a fast one on others. I don't even know how you had arrived at that conclusion. 
   
  Fact is, Jeroen doesn't even make much money with his ToneBooster plugins--it's just a hobby to him--a fun distraction when he's not working on his more "serious" work in the field of audio. Nobody is trying to sell anything--he only made his plugins available to the public because he coded them for himself and thought it would be nice to make them available, and he didn't want to just give them away (since he spent so much time on them, and they are high quality). 
   
  If you feel that your hearing is golden and we're all deluded, half-deaf idiots, then yes, messages received loud and clear. What's the point of beating that dead horse over and over? I'm willing to spend time here at head-fi helping others and sharing my love for music/audio, as well as defend something I feel is worth defending. What are you wasting your time here doing? Just trolling?


----------



## TWIFOSP

Yes -- I spent a few hours adjusting the settings looking for the sweet spot everyone talks about.  But it was all moot, because just having the plugin enabled in jriver media center meant that there was an unacceptable amount of distortion and compression being introduced.  
   
  Cymbals went from sounding like cymbals with correct shimmer and decay to sounding like they were being played from a 128k mp3.  The decay was cut off, shimmer was stepped.  The stepped sound of the shimmer instead of a gradient is something I hear in poorly compressed digital audio all the time.  
   
  I never said my hearing was golden, and I never called anyone an idiot, and I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.  It doesn't help your case, that is for sure.  I participate in this thread because correct sound stage imaging is my most important factor in listening to music with headphones.  If the music sounds like it is coming from inside my head or from 2 headphone drivers, my brain rejects it and I don't lose myself in the music.  Therefore I am extremely interested in hardware and software solutions like this.  The entire point of this thread of the pros and cons of this software and I'm sorry if you feel offended that I don't act like a cheerleader about something I don't feel works effectively.


----------



## Sweden

I'm with TWIFOSP on this one. The plugin messes up tonality and fidelity no matter what settings you are using. The trade off is worth it on a few old recordings with very separated channels.
  You are doing a good thing here trying to get the people aware of certain useful products (even better that they are free), and your effort have been honorary doing so, I just want to make that clear. But as always you have to point out that anyone who don't agree that this is better than the second coming of Christ is either using this plugin wrongly (even after he had tried for hours using every possible setting), or is too big an audio noob to even be commenting/use strawman arguments.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





twifosp said:


> Yes -- I spent a few hours adjusting the settings looking for the sweet spot everyone talks about.  But it was all moot, because just having the plugin enabled in jriver media center meant that there was an unacceptable amount of distortion and compression being introduced.
> 
> Cymbals went from sounding like cymbals with correct shimmer and decay to sounding like they were being played from a 128k mp3.  The decay was cut off, shimmer was stepped.  The stepped sound of the shimmer instead of a gradient is something I hear in poorly compressed digital audio all the time.
> 
> I never said my hearing was golden, and I never called anyone an idiot, and I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.  It doesn't help your case, that is for sure.  I participate in this thread because correct sound stage imaging is my most important factor in listening to music with headphones.  If the music sounds like it is coming from inside my head or from 2 headphone drivers, my brain rejects it and I don't lose myself in the music.  Therefore I am extremely interested in hardware and software solutions like this.  The entire point of this thread of the pros and cons of this software and I'm sorry if you feel offended that I don't act like a cheerleader about something I don't feel works effectively.


 
  I didn't quote you in any way, so I wasn't exactly putting words in your mouth. I merely described how your posts come across (to me). 
   
  I really have no idea why Isone sounds so terrible to you. It's a mystery to me, and I wish I had an answer. Isone has a lot of fans--including audio professional and audiophiles/hobbyists alike. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that some of them probably are even more picky than you are about audio, or are more knowledgeable/experienced in audio, and obviously they don't agree with you. Just like I have no answer for why Isone sounds so bad to you, you have no answer for why it sounds so good to others. So it's really just a matter of agreeing to disagree. 
   
  As for being offended--I'm not offended at all. I didn't create Isone. I don't make a dime off of depending it. Hell, I don't even get free **** from Jeroen--I'm simply a fan of Isone--something's that's brought me a lot of joy and increased my sonic bliss by a large amount. The least I could do is to pay it back to the community and help spread the word about it. 
   
  If you find my attitude hard to stomach, then please read my reply to Sweden below--I'll explain my motivations and why I'm only trying to do good, not harm, to this community.
   
  Quote: 





sweden said:


> I'm with TWIFOSP on this one. The plugin messes up tonality and fidelity no matter what settings you are using. The trade off is worth it on a few old recordings with very separated channels.
> You are doing a good thing here trying to get the people aware of certain useful products (even better that they are free), and your effort have been honorary doing so, I just want to make that clear. But as always you have to point out that anyone who don't agree that this is better than the second coming of Christ is either using this plugin wrongly (even after he had tried for hours using every possible setting), or is too big an audio noob to even be commenting/use strawman arguments.


 
  Well, I can't help that some of the people who said they didn't "get it" were actually in fact, self-professed audio noobs who didn't know even the basics of audio (noticed I said some, not all, and TWIFOSP obviously isn't a noob--he knows what he wants and is hunting for it), and I felt that I had to try and at least help them understand the basics of audio. I had no way of knowing if the the fact they didn't understand or appreciate Isone was due to their lack of knowledge/experience with audio in general, or they simply just don't like how it sounds. So the only thing I could do was explain to them what HRTF is, how it works, why Isone is supposed to change the frequency response (as our head and ears in real life does when they interact with an acoustic environment), or why the fact it simulates acoustic spaces means it's supposed to have some form of reverb/echo--that's what acoustic spaces do. I had to explain all of that, to be sure they understood exactly why Isone does what it does--it's not a defect that there's reverb/echo, and it's not a defect that the frequency response is altered--it's all part of the design. 
   
  I didn't do any of that to force my opinion on others or to overpower them into submission. I was trying to help educate this community, which is made up of mostly hobbyists and enthusiasts--some of which are actually quite passionate about audio and do want to learn this stuff. I could be playing video games or watch movies or snuggling with my wife instead of doing all of this, but I have a passion for teaching (I'm a teacher, in fact), and I enjoy helping others understand and see things in a new/different way. If I seem to come on very strong--it's simply because I live life very passionately, and that is reflected in everything I do (take a spin around my website and you'll see this very clearly). But I NEVER do anything from a place of malice--it's always from a place of goodness. At least that's what I strive for.


----------



## maverickronin

Haters gonna hate...
   
  Seriously though.  If you hear gross distortion/digital clipping then turn down the Speaker Level dial until you don't see it clipping on the integrated level meter. (The meter is only in the newer versions upgrade if necessary.)
   
  Here's the quick and dirty way to calibrate it.  Find a track that's minimally produced with a natural sound and has lots of instruments with lots of overtones and harmonics like snare drums, bells, and other types of percussion that are panned well off to the side.  Such instruments cover a wide range of frequencies and thus are easier to localize in space IRL.  Load the "Calibrate me!" preset, set it dual mono and play with the Ear size until it sound like it's directly in front of you.  Then set it to left or right and play with the head size until it it sounds like it's coming from a 30 degree angle.
   
  That won't be perfect but it should work pretty nicely for most people and you can fine tune from there.  If it doesn't work then you may just not like it or have a catastrophically incompatible HRTF.  Each person's HRTF is different and it is dependent on your individual anatomy.  Isone has useful adjustments but if you're too far from average it just may not work at all for you.
   
  Also, another big thanks to Lunatique for introducing me to Isone.  I absolutely love it.  I'm not an audio professional of any kind and use it just listening for pleasure.


----------



## Puranti

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


>


 
   
  I lol'd so hard,
  but this is very true, this vst is astounding,
  You feel in a real room with speaker, the effect is really impressive,
  But you need indeed to configure it carefully.
  Thanks Lunatique
   
  EDIT : I understand TWIFOSP in a way that if you're not used to speakers, it is uncommon to hear music like that.


----------



## TWIFOSP

Quote: 





puranti said:


> I lol'd so hard,
> but this is very true, this vst is astounding,
> You feel in a real room with speaker, the effect is really impressive,
> But you need indeed to configure it carefully.
> ...


 
   
  I listen to both floor stands in my living room and near field monitors in my office.  I also have season tickets to the Austin symphony, so I'm well attuned to what music should sound like.


----------



## TWIFOSP

I never said it didn't sound like headphones.  I said it sounded bad.  Especially cymbals.
   
  I use jriver which has clipping protection for starters.  I don't turn it on because the peak level with the plugin on never approaches 100.  
   
  I have just went through the steps you mentioned with Miles Davis and some Aaron Copland and I can still hear, quite obviously, tinny compressed cymbals with stepped decay when compared to having the plugin off.  The speaker level setting ended up at about 9 o clock and the peak level never went past 50%.
   
  The size of your head and ears will have nothing to do with the frequency sounding off, and the processing artifacts that are audible.  You are arguing a point as if I don't believe that it works to put the sound in front of you.  Which what I am saying is that regardless of how the plugin affects the sound stage, the sound quality is noticeably worse.
   
  For what it's worth I am using TB_Isone v2.5.0 Demo with JRiver media center 17.0.147.  
   
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Haters gonna hate...
> 
> Seriously though.  If you hear gross distortion/digital clipping then turn down the Speaker Level dial until you don't see it clipping on the integrated level meter. (The meter is only in the newer versions upgrade if necessary.)
> 
> ...


----------



## maverickronin

Well, something is probably wrong with your digital signal chain somewhere.  I've used a few different versions of Isone and I've never heard anything like that.  I use foobar myself but Lunatique uses J River.


----------



## sphinxvc

Why are there such extremes opinions on this thread?  It's either "haters gonna hate" or this plug in "distorts and compresses."  C'mon.
   
  The plug in is good, and it works as advertised, and whether you like what it does or not is a different matter.  I feel like that line has been posted a hundred times in this thread.  When I had some clipping issues, I simply adjusted the level knob to fix it.  
   
  Did I notice a loss in certain low level detail w/ Isone?  Yes.  But that's only because that's how speakers would sound sitting in a room 2 meters from you!  The goal of the plug in is to create a more natural presentation, which it does pretty well for something that costs so little--increasing detail retrieval is _not _it's goal.  
   
  To do that, get better headphones with a faster diaphragm!  Then make sure your chain is up the task.  And you know what, maybe _that's _what accounts for the discrepancy in opinions here--from what I see Luna owns O2s.  Stax are hyper detailed.  I've found the most success using Isone with DBA-02/B2 IEMs, also known for being hyper detailed.  The recording/mastering was also a variable.
   
  The truth about Isone, as it so often does, lies somewhere in the middle I think.  Isone's not so good as to replace actual speakers, or maybe it's not even as good as the Realizer (gasp).
   
  Some may not like it enough to concede that it sounds as good as their speakers.  I can understand that.  Their opinions aren't invalid, and I certainly don't presume that all these people simply need to learn to appreciate it better as a "real life audio professional" might.  We all have a wealth of experience with our ears, and we have all certainly heard enough speakers and headphones to know the difference between the two.  Hopefully we'll have more tempered posts here, and hopefully refrain from hyperbole.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Why are there such extremes opinions on this thread?  It's either "haters gonna hate" or this plug in "distorts and compresses."  C'mon.


 
   
  That was supposed to be a joke.  Is everything that's not qualified with an smiley face going to be taken as deadpan serious...


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> That was supposed to be a joke.  Is everything that's not qualified with an smiley face going to be taken as deadpan serious...


 
   
  Wasn't referring to your post 'ronin.  The humor in your posts was sufficiently summed up by meme, the "seriously though" and the general tone of your other posts 'round head-fi.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote: 





proton007 said:


> I don't think its worth wasting time with them.


 
   
  Quote: 





crumpler said:


> Haters are gonna hate. Just leave them be.


 
   
  Quote: 





kalston said:


> You're not going to achieve anything by trolling.


----------



## TWIFOSP

Are you suggesting that if everything sounds great without the plugin enabled, and only sounds bad with the plugin enabled, that it is something other than the plugin?  Given the hardware I have, I'm really skeptical, but I'd love to hear what you think it could be.
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Well, something is probably wrong with your digital signal chain somewhere.  I've used a few different versions of Isone and I've never heard anything like that.  I use foobar myself but Lunatique uses J River.


----------



## TWIFOSP

That is the part that is really confusing to me.  The plugin is apparently absolutely perfect and if you point out any flaws you are a hater?  Why can't I share my experience with the product if it's negative? Isn't that what these forums are about?  Sharing consumer to consumer experiences so we can work out what to spend our money on without having to buy everything and try it all.  No apparently it's about product evangelism.  
   
  The sad thing is I really want for this product to work. It's pretty much my goal out of head-fi.
   
   
  Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Why are there such extremes opinions on this thread?  It's either "haters gonna hate" or this plug in "distorts and compresses."  C'mon.


----------



## BoogieWoogie

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Haters gonna hate...
> 
> Seriously though.  If you hear gross distortion/digital clipping then turn down the Speaker Level dial until you don't see it clipping on the integrated level meter. (The meter is only in the newer versions upgrade if necessary.)
> 
> ...


 
  Tried this but even with the ear size adjustment there's almost no change in the sound. I also hear distortion when using this plugin.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Wasn't referring to your post 'ronin.  The humor in your posts was sufficiently summed up by meme, the "seriously though" and the general tone of your other posts 'round head-fi.


 
   
  I missed that someone else said the same thing.
   
  Quote: 





twifosp said:


> Are you suggesting that if everything sounds great without the plugin enabled, and only sounds bad with the plugin enabled, that it is something other than the plugin?  Given the hardware I have, I'm really skeptical, but I'd love to hear what you think it could be.


 
   
  I was talking about the software side.  Sorry I wasn't clear.  Something along the lines of that particular version of Isone not getting along with the exact version of the VST host you're using if one of them has a bug.  If you're running other DSPs besides Isone they could be interacting like that as well.
   
  Honestly it doesn't seem very likely but if you're actually hearing some sort of gross distortion then something has to be wrong somewhere.  I've never heard those kind of artifacts from it when it wasn't clipping.


----------



## sphinxvc

If anyone is interested, I received a reply from Jeroen on how Isone compensates for angled drivers:
   
"_That is somewhat difficult to say, as I don't know the transfer from __those headphone drivers to the ear drums.

Isone allows to reduce or switch off the 'HRTF strength'. This disables or weakens the elevation and front/back cues in the signal. If the angled headphone drivers provide such cues, you can reduce them with the HRTF strength control and adjust them to your liking.

Still I have doubts whether such angled drivers can have the same effect as a point __source a few meters away._"
   
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Honestly it doesn't seem very likely but if you're actually hearing some sort of gross distortion then something has to be wrong somewhere.  I've never heard those kind of artifacts from it when it wasn't clipping.


 
   
  +1.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





twifosp said:


> I never said it didn't sound like headphones.  I said it sounded bad.  Especially cymbals.
> 
> I use jriver which has clipping protection for starters.  I don't turn it on because the peak level with the plugin on never approaches 100.
> 
> ...


 
   
  For those of you who are having problems with Isone, why don't you guys just contact Jeroen like I have suggested several times in this thread? He's incredibly open-minded and friendly, very receptive to criticism and suggestions, and when I gave him my feedback on how to improve Isone in the past, he was always very gracious and appreciative. He knows Isone better than anyone, and he'll be able to tell you whether something is wrong if you're hearing things that he did not intend Isone to do to your signal chain. 
   
  Seriously, have you guys thought about the possibility that maybe you're not hearing what Jeroen intended Isone to sound like? Maybe there is a glitch somewhere in your signal chain that may or may not be caused by Isone? Talk to Jeroen and he'll help you figure it out. The guy knows more about audio and DSP than any member at head-fi, bar none, and if you guys are passionate about audio, he just might be the most knowledgeable/experienced/authoritative person you'll ever talk to about audio, so why not take this chance and talk to him?
   
   


sphinxvc said:


> Why are there such extremes opinions on this thread?  It's either "haters gonna hate" or this plug in "distorts and compresses."  C'mon.
> 
> The plug in is good, and it works as advertised, and whether you like what it does or not is a different matter.  I feel like that line has been posted a hundred times in this thread.  When I had some clipping issues, I simply adjusted the level knob to fix it.
> 
> ...


 
   I no longer have the Stax rig--I sold it. I prefer my LCD-2 (using my custom EQ curve).
   
  And you're so right about how Isone is meant to be used. Its job is NOT to increase detail retrieval--it's actually in many ways, to decrease it.
   
  Isone was created for audio professionals to test out their mixes in virtual environments and different emulations of speaker cabinets, so they can make sure their mixes sound good in all kinds of different environments and on all kinds of different speaker systems--from tinny laptop speakers, flat screen TV speakers, all the way to high-end speakers, as well as anywhere from standing in the hallway with the door closed, in tiny square rooms, to large living rooms. So many of these combinations will alter the audio dramatically, and not in a good way--that's all intentional. But it is also capable of creating the illusion of a very pleasant virtual environment using emulation of a totally neutral/flat virtual speakers.
   
  It may not be hyper-detailed compared to typical headphone listening where the drivers are right next to your eardrums, but it should approximate how speakers should sound when placed a couple of meters away from your ears in front of you, and by pushing the sound away from you by a couple of meters and having the sound intermingle with the virtual room's acoustics, of course it's going to decrease that hyper-detailed sound into a smoother, more natural sound. Some people who mistakenly want Isone to retain the same hyper-detail as having the drivers right next to their eardrums simply have incorrect expectations of Isone--they simply do not understand the purpose of Isone and why someone would want to use it.
   
  As for those who simply think it sounds bad--I really don't know what to think of that. I have no idea if they're using the plugin incorrectly, or have software/driver/hardware conflicts causing distortion/artifacts. I have no way of knowing whether what they are hearing is identical to what I'm hearing on my end. And because the way they describe the sound they are hearing is so different from what I'm hearing, I can only assume they aren't hearing what I'm hearing--including the fact that we are physiologically different from one another (which explains why different people would listen to the exact same rig but have drastically different opinions of it--they don't have the same ears/brain/conditioning from experience, so they in fact, don't hear/perceive that rig in the same way).
   
   
  Quote:


maverickronin said:


> I was talking about the software side.  Sorry I wasn't clear.  Something along the lines of that particular version of Isone not getting along with the exact version of the VST host you're using if one of them has a bug.  If you're running other DSPs besides Isone they could be interacting like that as well.
> 
> Honestly it doesn't seem very likely but if you're actually hearing some sort of gross distortion then something has to be wrong somewhere.  I've never heard those kind of artifacts from it when it wasn't clipping.


 
   
  It could be anything that's causing problems in the signal chain. It could be the sound card/audio interface's driver (for example, I've had a lot of problems with Creative's drivers in the past, causing all kinds of odd glitches), or any kind of weird bug from any number of software that is being run in that computer, or a faulty installation of a software, or bad interaction between software/plugins, or something in the hardware chain, or just someone's physiology being very unique.


----------



## TWIFOSP

I don't use sound cards.  I'm using a lavry da11 or schiit bifrost.  The da11 is a pretty pro piece of audio gear, and while I accept it may have a conflict, I hear the same issue on both dacs.


----------



## proton007

@Lunatique,
  The difference is pretty real, and the stated effects (default setups) do seem to work well, but they emulate loudspeaker setups.
  Are there any headphone specific settings/defaults that can be used ?


----------



## Puranti

There is crossfeed still.
  Try out BS2B


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





twifosp said:


> I don't use sound cards.  I'm using a lavry da11 or schiit bifrost.  The da11 is a pretty pro piece of audio gear, and while I accept it may have a conflict, I hear the same issue on both dacs.


 
   
  I highly recommend you contact Jeroen. There is no better person to answer your questions or to address your concerns than the guy who created Isone.
   
  Quote: 





proton007 said:


> @Lunatique,
> The difference is pretty real, and the stated effects (default setups) do seem to work well, but they emulate loudspeaker setups.
> Are there any headphone specific settings/defaults that can be used ?


 
   
  I don't understand the question--can you elaborate? The whole point of any crossfeed or HRTF/room emulation products is to create the illusion of loudspeakers in front of you while using headphones, so what would be "headphone specific settings/defaults"?  
   
  If you don't want to emulate any specific type of loudspeakers and want basically the most neutral setting, then use the "Flat" preset for the speaker emulation. You can also turn off Room Designer to not use any emulations of virtual acoustic spaces (which I think is what an anechoic chamber would sound like).


----------



## Matt head 777

I've changed my mind about foorbar it sounds excellent now that I've changed the sound output setting. Really being rocked by dolby headphone. Man these LCD-2's kick butt, so much oohmff.


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Lunatique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I don't understand the question--can you elaborate? The whole point of any crossfeed or HRTF/room emulation products is to create the illusion of loudspeakers in front of you while using headphones, so what would be "headphone specific settings/defaults"?
> 
> If you don't want to emulate any specific type of loudspeakers and want basically the most neutral setting, then use the "Flat" preset for the speaker emulation. You can also turn off Room Designer to not use any emulations of virtual acoustic spaces (which I think is what an anechoic chamber would sound like).


 
   
  Well, the illusion is there, pretty good, but it emulates speakers. I was wondering more towards improve the soundstage, move it to the front etc. but more close to the headphone sound, not emulate speaker sound. For ex. the surround plugin is nice.


----------



## chinesekiwi

If you want the sound to 'move to the front', bring the nearfield speaker distance closer.
   
  You must calibrate the HTRF section of Isone for best effect. Isone is designed to emulate nearfield speakers.
  You really must understand basic room acoustics to use it properly and know what each setting does.
   
  I can never go back to the laterisation of headphones (the 'two blob' effect of headphones) for music listening after using and calibrating Isone.


----------



## maverickronin

Normally I just use use Isone at home where I can lay back, relax, and enjoy the music but I tried using isone at work the other day.  I listen to music a lot of the time at work and I normally just listen from Pandora One or my Cowon D2+ which I can't apply Isone to but I put foobar and Isone on my workstation and played music from my D2+ via USB.  It didn't go very well...
   
  Mostly because Isone is too good.  My brain did not get along with the realistic positioning not changing as I moved my head up and down, back and forth, and side to side between 3 monitors and piles of paperwork.  It made me pretty dizzy and sick to my stomach along with a nasty headache.  I probably listened for about a half hour before I realized why I felt awful and it took a few hours for the effects to completely fade away so I felt normal again.  Back to the normal crossfeed like on my UHA-4 whenever I'm not sitting very still.
   
  Has anyone else experienced this?  I know I'm pretty sensitive to this kind of thing but I wonder how common it is.  I can't even listen to stereo music on most decent headphones for too long before the unnatural inter aural differences give me a headache unless I at least use some basic crossfeed.  It turns out that I have a line in the other direction that I can't cross either.  If the HRTF DSP is too good then it turns out I need head tracking unless I sit pretty still.


----------



## MHOE

If you don't know how to use the plugin, just don't use it... It took me months to set it up perfectly to my ears and now I feel like walking in heaven when listening. Absolutely natural sound with balanced sound layers (that means you will definitely loose some amount of detail in order to get a proper simulation of environment around you) 
   
  It is also good to mention that I don't like TB Isone as much as Isone Pro (previous version of this software). So I can only definitely recommend trying Isone Pro.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





mhoe said:


> If you don't know how to use the plugin, just don't use it... It took me months to set it up perfectly to my ears and now I feel like walking in heaven when listening. Absolutely natural sound with balanced sound layers (that means you will definitely loose some amount of detail in order to get a proper simulation of environment around you)
> 
> It is also good to mention that I don't like TB Isone as much as Isone Pro (previous version of this software). So I can only definitely recommend trying Isone Pro.


 
   Why not go through every setting used.


----------



## TWIFOSP

It's really not nearly as complicated as they are making it out to be.  There is no correct way to do it.  The calibration technique described by the author can be summed up as "move this setting until it sounds like your monitors".
  Quote: 





sweden said:


> Why not go through every setting used.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





twifosp said:


> It's really not nearly as complicated as they are making it out to be.  There is no correct way to do it.  The calibration technique described by the author can be summed up as "move this setting until it sounds like your monitors".


 
   I've read the manual,(if you can call that a manual) tried every possible setting and the sound is never "monitor like" on 99.9% of my music collection with my LCD-2 or any other headphone I have. Put on Louis Armstrong - What a Wonderful World, and it works great tho.
  I'm just curious what setting people are using for this "amazing speaker like effect" to kick in.


----------



## TWIFOSP

I can get it to sound like my monitors if I pulled socks over them. 
   
  I don't know what setting every one seems to contend makes them sound correctly.  All I know is apparently they are much smarter than us for figuring it out.
   


sweden said:


> I've read the manual,(if you can call that a manual) tried every possible setting and the sound is never "monitor like" on 99.9% of my music collection with my LCD-2 or any other headphone I have. Put on Louis Armstrong - What a Wonderful World, and it works great tho.
> I'm just curious what setting people are using for this "amazing speaker like effect" to kick in.


----------



## maverickronin

Or maybe your HRTFs just don't match up well.
   
  There are only so many settings you can give a user to dial in and not many computer programs have settings that are dependent on your anatomy either.


----------



## TWIFOSP

HRTF only has to do with positional processing that gives the illusion that the sound comes from in front of our around your head.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





twifosp said:


> HRTF only has to do with positional processing that gives the illusion that the sound comes from in front of our around your head.


 
   
  And that has to do with how the sound waves interact with your head and pinna.  Have you ever noticed that everyone's ears look different?  If you go all Van Gogh and cut off one of your ears or Mike Tyson takes a chunk out of one of them you'll have a hard time localizing sounds until you brain has time to learn your _new _HRTF.


----------



## Matt head 777

This must work GREAT with my HRTF. http://www.head-fi.org/t/611711/reinforcing-that-out-of-head-sound-sheppi-spatial-enhancer#post_8416179 Best out of head in front of you, better than isone.


----------



## lovleylady

I really gave Isone a good try but I can in no way get the sound out of my head, sure it moves around a bit but it's still inside. When you toggle it on, it sounds a bit like it moves out for a second or two and then the brain catches up again and you realize there's pound of steele on your head.
   
  This is not really a problem for me since I actually enjoy headphone listening and the "inside-your-head" sound and high detail is part of that, for me anyways.
  I think the power of really wanting it to work would really help it to do so, maybe that's why it doesn't for me.
   
  Quote: 





mhoe said:


> If you don't know how to use the plugin, just don't use it... It took me months to set it up perfectly to my ears and now I feel like walking in heaven when listening. Absolutely natural sound with balanced sound layers (that means you will definitely loose some amount of detail in order to get a proper simulation of environment around you)
> 
> It is also good to mention that I don't like TB Isone as much as Isone Pro (previous version of this software). So I can only definitely recommend trying Isone Pro.


 

 That might just be getting used to it. I don't think Isone is that advanced, not settingwise aleast, there's not that many settings and there's not a great difference in small changes.
  I bet if you used any sound altering plugin for a few months you'll get used to that too and anything else would sound weird.
   
   

 Cheers!
   
  LL


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





matt head 777 said:


> This must work GREAT with my HRTF. http://www.head-fi.org/t/611711/reinforcing-that-out-of-head-sound-sheppi-spatial-enhancer#post_8416179 Best out of head in front of you, better than isone.


 
  I use that in conjunction with Isone lol. I find that with Isone, you need to hear the real acoustic ambience for your brain to hear the effect. So while things like small studio monitors or small studio does it for me, I never had a chance to be in a large studio thus Isone in that setting does not work for me.


----------



## Matt head 777

Quote: 





firev1 said:


> I use that in conjunction with Isone lol. I find that with Isone, you need to hear the real acoustic ambience for your brain to hear the effect. So while things like small studio monitors or small studio does it for me, I never had a chance to be in a large studio thus Isone in that setting does not work for me.


 

 Interesting. I use near field monitors but seem to like the monitors about 2 meters away -that's more than my nearfields. I like Isone tho I'm finding Dolby and Sheppi do better at preserving the sound and giving out of head experience.


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





matt head 777 said:


> Interesting. I use near field monitors but seem to like the monitors about 2 meters away -that's more than my nearfields. I like Isone tho I'm finding Dolby and Sheppi do better at preserving the sound and giving out of head experience.


 
  Don't have dolby to try though  Sheppi does a nice job with widening the space which is what I like about it and I think provides more control than TB_omnisone, though the omnisone is 10x more user friendly and has positioning control too, which is what I like about it. Maybe it is because of the way your monitors are tuned with the room? FR can really change imaging. 
   
  For reference my, near field monitors at home are about 60cm or 2 feet away from my ears.


----------



## proton007

Right now I'm using the Isone EZQ, makes a huge difference in headphone sound, especially if they're the bright kind. I just set a bit of dark/warm, makes my headphones smooth.


----------



## Matt head 777

Quote: 





proton007 said:


> Right now I'm using the Isone EZQ, makes a huge difference in headphone sound, especially if they're the bright kind. I just set a bit of dark/warm, makes my headphones smooth.


 

 Have to try ezq I've been fussing alot with parametric electri-q. Good option for those who want to keep it simple and the designers may have created suprising results...


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





matt head 777 said:


> Have to try ezq I've been fussing alot with parametric electri-q. Good option for those who want to keep it simple and the designers may have created suprising results...


 
  Actually I also tried to use the Isone Equalizer, but as you said, it takes a bit of setting to get the right sound. This one's kinda easy to setup.


----------



## chinesekiwi

To be honest, if you actually follow the Isone guide regarding HRTF, it results in a much better more rounded sound than any tweaking with Sheppi.
  Tried all the combos, yes, increased depth but really doesn't sound natural at all. If you've configured the HRTF section of Isone right, you know you have as it sounds 'natural' to you and the extreme right and left sounds are parallel with your ears.
   
  Imaging is more important than soundstage. The best sound is where you don't need to worry about the sound.


----------



## Matt head 777

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> To be honest, if you actually follow the Isone guide regarding HRTF, it results in a much better more rounded sound than any tweaking with Sheppi.
> Tried all the combos, yes, increased depth but really doesn't sound natural at all. If you've configured the HRTF section of Isone right, you know you have as it sounds 'natural' to you and the extreme right and left sounds are parallel with your ears.
> 
> Imaging is more important than soundstage. The best sound is where you don't need to worry about the sound.


 
   
  Sheppi can be overused you've got to get the settings right I find it natural sounding and I'm fussy. Some people like Isone some don't. I noticed with Sheppi the treble can become to wet and also the delays can become pronounced. I don't use alot of it in combo with Dolby. I find it the best. To my tastes Isone is less accurate but it does have a bit of a wow factor which I like compared to no plugin The out of head vocal presentation is quite amazing with Sheppi+Dolby. I've heard of another using Sheppi _with_ Isone. Some people love Sheppi


----------



## Matt head 777

The Dolby HRTF  + Sheppi works well for me to give a spacious natural sound, more natural than without plugins and having sound blasted into each ear heh


----------



## chinesekiwi

Matt, you have configured the HRTF function in Isone properly as stated via the manual right?
   
  It needs to be tweaked from default. It's designed too.


----------



## DGriff0400

is it better than izotope dsp?


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





dgriff0400 said:


> is it better than izotope dsp?


 
   
  Izotope doesn't have a HRTF/crossfeed/room & speaker simulation plugin in their product line, as far as I know.


----------



## DGriff0400

not sure about the rest but izotope 4 and 5.had room simulation,reverb,  http://www.musik-schmidt.de/images/product_images/popup_images/Izotope-Ozone-5-Advanced_1.jpg


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





dgriff0400 said:


> not sure about the rest but izotope 4 and 5.had room simulation,reverb,  http://www.musik-schmidt.de/images/product_images/popup_images/Izotope-Ozone-5-Advanced_1.jpg


 
  Reverb and room sim alone has nothing to do with what Isone or crossfeed is about. If that were the case, then any old reverb would work. What we're talking about here is strictly for headphones, and it's the HRTF and the crossfeed that is the most important features. Reverb/room sim, speaker cabinet emulation, etc are just icing on the cake, and are not essential.


----------



## DGriff0400

hmmm ok ill give it a try and compare them


----------



## chinesekiwi

Oh man, I've configured Isone so well for my HTRF and room settings that I've really starting to notice the DT880 flaw of shallow soundstage depth now more than ever 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Still 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 though


----------



## madbull

I been trying messing with the settings for a long time with the demo version, and as it doesn't allow saving I thought to myself "f... that, it's just 15 euros, let's buy this thing". So I did it. Its a lot easier to get the proper setting, because you can save multiple times and get better each time having the previous savefiles to compare. I don't like the process described in the manual, it just doesn't work to me, so I keep turning the knobs ramdomly and noticing the effects. Well, after one day messing around, I finally could get a setting that almost puts a perfect image in front of me as if it was coming from little speakers 2 feet away of my nose. It's a great effect for using my laptop lying on the bed, as I usually do.
  So my advice is if you couldn't still manage to get a satisfatory result with Isone, keep trying, even if you don't wanna buy it now. But when you get that magic setting you'll be surprised how good it can get.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





madbull said:


> I been trying messing with the settings for a long time with the demo version, and as it doesn't allow saving I thought to myself "f... that, it's just 15 euros, let's buy this thing". So I did it. Its a lot easier to get the proper setting, because you can save multiple times and get better each time having the previous savefiles to compare. I don't like the process described in the manual, it just doesn't work to me, so I keep turning the knobs ramdomly and noticing the effects. Well, after one day messing around, I finally could get a setting that almost puts a perfect image in front of me as if it was coming from little speakers 2 feet away of my nose. It's a great effect for using my laptop lying on the bed, as I usually do.
> So my advice is if you couldn't still manage to get a satisfatory result with Isone, keep trying, even if you don't wanna buy it now. But when you get that magic setting you'll be surprised how good it can get.


 
   
   
  Can you share the settings you are using? Either with screen saver or writing it down.


----------



## Xymordos

This doesn't work for me in Winamp no matter what plugin I use...keeps saying invalid VST plugin. I'm also using Wasapi Out by Maiko


----------



## madbull

Quote: 





sweden said:


> Can you share the settings you are using? Either with screen saver or writing it down.


 
   
  Sure sir!
   
  This is best config I came up with and it's working fine to me, not so much for lead vocals, but I guess it's something you can't work out anyway. At least for me, YMMV.
   
  In my experience it helps to have a pair of speakers in front of you, it increases the illusion in some sort of wicked neuro response of our tricky brain, if that makes sense. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It would be cool if other Isone users also share their settings.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





madbull said:


> Sure sir!
> 
> This is best config I came up with and it's working fine to me, not so much for lead vocals, but I guess it's something you can't work out anyway. At least for me, YMMV.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Thanks for sharing. This setting do to my sound like a wet sock over the drivers with too much echo no matter what headphones being used.
   
  Here is the setting I've been using with no much better success:
   

   
   
  With 99% of songs Isone sound like crap frankly, but if you like to listen to music that sounds great with Isone I suggest listening to the record Guldkorn Från Mäster Cees Memoarer by artist Cornelis Vreeswijk.

  He is a musical treasure sadly not known well enough outside of Sweden.
   
   
  I find J Rivers own Effects - enhancing the soundstage + crossfeed sounding much better when listening to music though.


----------



## madbull

You can eliminate the echo by fixing the room size, I guess. I haven't tried your settings yet.


----------



## Chodi

I'll preface this by saying that my experience is with Isone Pro not the newer version. I have read many comments here from people who found this plugin to get bad results and that prompted me to chime in. I first tried this and was ready to just throw it out. I heard many of the complaints I have read in this thread. It sounded unnatural, compressed and tonally unconvincing. I just put it aside and came back to it in a few days and decided to very slowly go through the adjustments to give it a fair chance. This was not fun. It took many hours. At the end I was rewarded with everything the program promised. I was using my T1's and the sound stage almost exactly replicated the sound of two high quality speakers in my listening room. This was no small revelation. It no longer sounded as though I was wearing headphones. I tried this with a wide variety of music and found the results to be very consistent. The tonal balance did change from the sound of my headphones without Isone, but it changed in a very natural and pleasing way. I did a/b many times and found the Isone results to be different in exactly the ways the designer promised. I like what it does and when I use it I get the feeling that I am listening to a couple of very high quality monitor speakers instead of the uber-real headphone sound I have become accustom to. The T1's throw a very convincing out of head sound stage without any help from Isone but it is nothing like listening to speakers in a room. Isone does that for me in a very convincing way.
   
  I also own a pair of HE500 and for the life of me I was unable to get the same results with the Hifiman. After carefully going through all the setup procedure again I had to conclude that my HE500 just could not be made to work with Isone (at least not nearly to the extents that it does with the T1's). Maybe this program just matches well with my head and my ears and your results will vary, but for me this is a keeper.


----------



## edwardsean

Hi, 
   
  Since you have had success with it, would you mind posting your settings. Of course it will be different for every person and their system, but I'm curious to see one that's worked out. Perhaps we can use it as reference point or baseline for our own adjustments. Thanks.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





edwardsean said:


> Hi,
> 
> Since you have had success with it, would you mind posting your settings. Of course it will be different for every person and their system, but I'm curious to see one that's worked out. Perhaps we can use it as reference point or baseline for our own adjustments. Thanks.


 
   

   
  I doubt that my setting will help. What I discovered in this process is that the setup is very much a personal process. The program tunes the setting to your specific ears and headphones. I seriously doubt that my exact settings will work for anyone else. I also found the settings to be very critical and a small change could ruin the whole thing. I started with the room setting turned off and never turned them on until I felt I had the HRTF adjustment correct. That took hours and testing with many different tracks to confirm. If you leave the room setting on it just confuses things and makes too  many variables. I listened first for speaker position as though there were real speakers in the room. I used two chairs in position as speakers to do that I could see my reference points (I think your brain needs the cue). Once I had the location dialed in I concentrated on the tonal character. My objective was to get it so that there was little or no difference between on and bypass. That probably took longer than all the rest of the setup combined. I knew once I introduced the room setting that tonal character would change some but I had to get it close to my original headphone sound first. The controls are really sensitive. A small change can really ruin everything and it is not as easy as I would like it to have been. A lot of a/b testing. When I finally turned on the "room" I used modest settings to see how it changed things and decided on what I thought was a natural sound with very little compromise (almost no lose in detail). You can use this without ever turning on the room setting and get very good results. I eventually decided to go with the room setting because the final product sounded very much like speakers I had listened to for years. A coincidence perhaps, but it was a sound I was very comfortable with. I will caution that my experience with my HE500's suggest that this may not work for all headphones. Or maybe I didn't try hard enough with them since this is such a long process and I had already done it all for my T1's.


----------



## TheDoctor46

How do these work?
   
  I extracted the archive and placed the whole thing into the plugins folder for winamp (and VLC) and it doesn't show up in either.
   
  What exactly are you meant to do with them?


----------



## MHOE

The most natural and neutral crossfeed to my ears so far (tried Redline, head-fit, Jriver's native crosfeed plugin, sheppi, Isone Pro, ...):
   
   

   
  If you want to push the sound a bit in front of you (but don't wanna colour it too much), I would advise to set Distance around 0.30 m (all other parameters stays the same as they are prepared for manipulation with the Distance knob)... That's the best you can get without influencing source quality too much IMHO.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





mhoe said:


> The most natural and neutral crossfeed to my ears so far (tried Redline, head-fit, Jriver's native crosfeed plugin, sheppi, Isone Pro, ...):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This was good sounding settings. It moves the sound in front of you without messing with the tonality too much especially with 0.30 distance.


----------



## MHOE

Quote: 





sweden said:


> This was good sounding settings. It moves the sound in front of you without messing with the tonality too much especially with 0.30 distance.


 
   
  This is the best that I was able to achieve with TB Isone (and any other plugin trying to let headphones sound more natural)... When setting the distance to zero, I can hardly spot any negative degradation of the sound (but this is intended for crossfeed only!). When setting it to 0.30 m, it's somehow the best compromise between quality and spatial effect (you can try to move it somewhere up to 0.50 m that should be "ok" as well). But someone can have different opinion, that's absolutely normal and correct I would say!


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





mhoe said:


> This is the best that I was able to achieve with TB Isone (and any other plugin trying to let headphones sound more natural)... When setting the distance to zero, I can hardly spot any negative degradation of the sound (but this is intended for crossfeed only!). When setting it to 0.30 m, it's somehow the best compromise between quality and spatial effect (you can try to move it somewhere up to 0.50 m that should be "ok" as well). But someone can have different opinion, that's absolutely normal and correct I would say!


 
   
  I'm liking the settings more and more. The J River crossfeed sound very natural as well, but it doesn't move the image in front of you like this settings does.


----------



## MHOE

Quote: 





sweden said:


> I'm liking the settings more and more. The J River crossfeed sound very natural as well, but it doesn't move the image in front of you like this settings does.


 
   
  Glad you like it, really! 0.30 m came up from intensive testing -> everything sounds just "right" or "in place" in comparison with lower values AND it doesn't colour the sound too much as higher values does. You can always try to experiment with 0.25 - 0.35 and come up with the best value for distance out of them for you (we are talking about very subtle changes of course). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  In case you are curious -> Jriver's crossfeed ("headphones" plugin) set at "subtle" is also really good but it sounds a little bit "flat" or "sterile" to my ears and with some specific songs it doesn't work as good as it should. Higher settings are not as good as subtle is. It is all because Jriver offers a pure crossfeed only. TB Isone is quite more progressive as it delivers a VERY natural crossfeed with a little spatial effect (subjectively) even when set to work as crossfeed only (0.00 m distance).
   
  You can still try to use Jriver's together with some other plugin for more spatial feeling (sheppi, ...). BUT it cannot beat TB Isone with my settings IMHO if you want natural but still neutral sound! However, I am still open to testing new things and as soon as something EVEN better appears I am ready to try it


----------



## kalston

I must be lucky and have an average sized head/ears but the default settings work really really well for me  I only tweaked the distance a little and set the frequency preset to "flat".


----------



## MHOE

Quote: 





kalston said:


> I must be lucky and have an average sized head/ears but the default settings work really really well for me  I only tweaked the distance a little and set the frequency preset to "flat".


 
   
  If you look at my setting, it IS almost "default"


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





mhoe said:


> Glad you like it, really! 0.30 m came up from intensive testing -> everything sounds just "right" or "in place" in comparison with lower values AND it doesn't colour the sound too much as higher values does. You can always try to experiment with 0.25 - 0.35 and come up with the best value for distance out of them for you (we are talking about very subtle changes of course).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  The level of crossfeed in J River depends on the headphones and even more the music.
  Listening to older music like The Turtles - Happy Together the sound is noticable better with normal crossfeed rather than subtle at least with some headphones.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Guys, you *must* calibrate the HRTF settings or else to be downright honest, you aren't getting 'natural' imaging at all.
  Isone is designed to emulate nearfield speakers at 30 degrees, not really as a pure crossfeed.
   
  Also to calibrate it, you really need a good test track with deep soundstage and instrument separation e.g.
   




   
  My settings and why it makes sense (click image to enlarge):
   
   
   
   
   
   

   
  Your HRTF settings (Head size, ear size) *will* be different as the HRTF differs between people. I have a large head. The manual gives you a very good guideline to how to configure it properly.
  The bump in bass is to compensate for the lack of bass impact in headphones comapred to speakers. Therefore you have to compensate about +4 dB from a balanced sounding headphone such as the DT880. the upper bass frequencies are bumpd by about +1dB as I want the frequency repsonse curve to be more like the beyerdynamic T1, which is the most scientifically balanced sounding frequency response wise (for headphones) + factoring margin of error in measuring.
   
  Volume limited my F2K by -5dB so the bass boost doesn't digitally clip. There isn't much, if any, frequencies below 35 Hz in music, even bassy music, so the rolloff is fine.
   
  Set my Windows and F2K to 24 bit, 44.1 kHz as I volume limited and don't want to negatively affect sound quality. Bit depth only matters in sound quality when you use a digitally controlled volume control as lowering the volume sheds off bits. At about 13 bits bit depth (-18 dB using a digital volume control from 16 bit, 1 bit is about -6 dB) is where it affects sound quality (thus why you hear the difference between 8-bit and 16-bit music). Changing it to 24-bit output means I have the headroom to lower the volume digitally all I want without it affecting sound quality. It isn't because 24-bit is inheritly better than 16 bit. Also VSTs such as Isone operate in the 24-bit environment.
   
  Can never go back to the two-blob effect (and thus imaging problems) of headphones.
   
  Sources:
   
  http://en.goldenears.net/388
   
  http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=KB_Columns&document_srl=1884
   
  http://bit.ly/MX0rVC
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ  -*highly* recommend viewing!
   
  The others, such as T60 reverb time, diffusion, is pretty easy stuff to find. Yay for science!
   
  Guys, to really fully use it properly, you have to know some basic psychoacoustic science.


----------



## MHOE

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> Guys, you *must* calibrate the HRTF settings or else to be downright honest, you aren't getting 'natural' imaging at all.
> Isone is designed to emulate nearfield speakers at 30 degrees, not really as a pure crossfeed.


 
   
  Who said we all want "you-say-natural lossy speakers sound"? I want "to-my-ears-pseudonaturally-sounding hyperdetailed experience" with my headphones and that's perfectly what TB Isone offers when using my crossfeed settings (together with Eq neutralisation created for my headphones). ,-)
   
  I've compared almost any crossfeed plugin and none of them can beat TB Isone's versatily and pure stereo sound quality which is very significant with particular songs (or particular sequences of particular songs) that require "a special care" to not hurt my ears very much...
   
  Maybe when gaming or watching movies, TB Isone can do a great job when using all its features... But for music, pure and versatile crossfeed is what I want in order to keep the required level of detail and still perceive it naturally without any unwanted artifacts.
   
  I have been tweaking with both Isone Pro and TB Isone for months and all I can say is that I didn't spend a huge load of money on Denon AH-D7000, Objective2 with ODAC and other things related to software side of the thing to ***** up all the effort by coloring and degrading the sound using TB Isone in an inappropriate way IMHO. I want to hear the music, not the plugin. The official manual is helpful to achieve something that can sound balanced, a bit spatial, pushed and straighten in front of me... But there ALWAYS are artifacts, unwanted deformation of the source (e.g. emphasised recording and mastering defects ...), coloring and dramatic loss of detail if you use HRTF together with EAR SIZE (HEAD SIZE is as well that case)!
   
  Just saying - Foobar's SQ sucks, man... You should get something better like Jriver or ulilith, both supporting VST plugins. And get a better equalizer (if you use TB Isone for that alone) as well...


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





mhoe said:


> Just saying - Foobar's SQ sucks, man... You should get something better like Jriver or ulilith, both supporting VST plugins. And get a better equalizer (if you use TB Isone for that alone) as well...


 
  If you are using KS output with Foobar it bypasses the Windows audio mixer and outputs the digital stream untouched. Foobar has no sound of it's own. I have seen these comments before and it simply is not true. Foobar imparts no change whatsoever to the digital stream by itself unless you select plugins that alter the sound. This story about JRiver or others being sonically better is just fiction.


----------



## MHOE

Quote: 





chodi said:


> If you are using KS output with Foobar it bypasses the Windows audio mixer and outputs the digital stream untouched. Foobar has no sound of it's own. I have seen these comments before and it simply is not true. Foobar imparts no change whatsoever to the digital stream by itself unless you select plugins that alter the sound. This story about JRiver or others being sonically better is just fiction.


 
   
  You wish... Enjoy your Foobar then


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





mhoe said:


> You wish... Enjoy your Foobar then


 
  From your comment I can only assume that you believe Foobar is changing those 1's and 0's in some way? I would be interested to see how that might happen without adding some DSP? The choice of player is no more than a matter of operational convenience if you are using it in KS mode. That my friend is a fact.


----------



## MHOE

Quote: 





chodi said:


> From your comment I can only assume that you believe Foobar is changing those 1's and 0's in some way? I would be interested to see how that might happen without adding some DSP? The choice of player is no more than a matter of operational convenience if you are using it in KS mode. That my friend is a fact.


 
   
  Try xxhighend or jplay in hibernate mode and tell me then... Or you can try jplay mounted in Jriver. Or try Jriver alone - better sound, better audiophile options, better versatily for specific needs, better look. And you can try Fidelizer as well, even with your Foobar 
   
  But I would say this is a wrong discussion... Just stay happy with Foobar and I'll stay happy with Jriver. ,-)


----------



## kalston

JRiver may sound better (in theory!) than foobar _when you use DSPs_ because of the 64bit FP precision (vs 32b FP in foobar) but other than that JRiver with ASIO/KS/WASAPI sounds absolutely the same as foobar (or any other player configured in the same way). If it doesn't there's something wrong somewhere in your setup. 
   
  Foobar is a very clean and reliable player (and so is JRiver MC).


----------



## Chodi

It seems this thread got hijacked and it deserves to get back on topic. My experience with Isone has made my listening through headphones a more enjoyable experience. I don't use it all the time, but on classical music particularly it enhances the experience. Once it is properly set up and used prudently, the results with classical music can be remarkable. I find the key is to use the room settings to bring about the most subtle change and add a "natural" feeling to the music. Going too far with the settings can really destroy the sound. Frankly, on classical music I could never go back to listening without Isone. I have a new Stax system which really brings out the detail and Isone Pro shines with the Stax equipment.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





mhoe said:


> Who said we all want "you-say-natural lossy speakers sound"? I want "to-my-ears-pseudonaturally-sounding hyperdetailed experience" with my headphones and that's perfectly what TB Isone offers when using my crossfeed settings (together with Eq neutralisation created for my headphones). ,-)
> 
> I've compared almost any crossfeed plugin and none of them can beat TB Isone's versatily and pure stereo sound quality which is very significant with particular songs (or particular sequences of particular songs) that require "a special care" to not hurt my ears very much...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Isone Pro doesn't screw up imaging at all:
   
  Here's a fully binaural song (and a damn good one)
   





   
  Turning it on and off results in no loss of imaging with my settings for my head. The only difference is soundstage width but that's fine as you do realise, that most music is mixed with nearfield speakers at 30 degrees right? Also Isone Pro gives you good instructions on how to configure the HRTF settings correctly. You did read the instruction manual right?
   
  Hearing the music *correctly* for most recordings, recorded the way the sound engineers hear it. Nearfield speakers angled at over 30 degrees affects the sound naturally in the treble.
  Isone Pro was designed for use in the recording industry. Think about that for a second. Not to mention Jeroen was part of the team that designed the mp4 container standard, so I think he know _a little bit_ more about psychoacoustics and it's application than the average person.
   
  You must configure the HRTF settings. Also headphones, due to driver size, do not shift as much air as speakers thus bass impact is affected and thus you must compensate for that.
  Most headphone audiophiles impression of 'neutral' is actually bass light (particularly sub bass) tbh. My room settings are in a super ideal (see unrealistic but it's the ideal) room tbh. No early reflections (and thus no need for dampening via diffusion).


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





chodi said:


> If you are using KS output with Foobar it bypasses the Windows audio mixer and outputs the digital stream untouched. Foobar has no sound of it's own. I have seen these comments before and it simply is not true. Foobar imparts no change whatsoever to the digital stream by itself unless you select plugins that alter the sound. This story about JRiver or others being sonically better is just fiction.


 
   
  not to mention WASAPI is better than KS. You really shouldn't be using XP these days. the sound kernel in Windows was revamped for the better with Server 2008 / Vista and up.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> not to mention WASAPI is better than KS. You really shouldn't be using XP these days. the sound kernel in Windows was revamped for the better with Server 2008 / Vista and up.


 
  I haven't seen any information that suggests WASAPI exclusive is better than kernel streaming? Could you advise where you got that idea from? As far as I know they are both bit perfect. I am not saying you are wrong I just haven't heard this story before. Perhaps you could expand on this idea?


----------



## chinesekiwi

^
   
  All are the same really, but as stated in the Hydrogenaudio wiki
   
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Components_0.9/WASAPI_output_support_(foo_out_wasapi)
   
   

 Requires Windows Vista or Windows 7 - not available on Windows XP or older.
 Works with more soundcards - contrary to e.g. ASIO, it doesn't require any special support from soundcard's manufacturer, other than providing a Windows Vista compatible driver.
 Guarantees muting of any other sounds played through the soundcard - with ASIO and KS, muting occurred with some soundcards but not with all of them; it was a side effect rather than a feature.
   

  All do the same job really. Best practice is to use what is native to Windows to avoid any potential crap / broken driver problems / OS conflicts as manufacturers often released crap ASIO drivers for example.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> All do the same job really. Best practice is to use what is native to Windows to avoid any potential crap / broken driver problems / OS conflicts as manufacturers often released crap ASIO drivers for example.


 
  Thanks for the information. I thought they were the same for anyone using Windows 7. I guess I misunderstood you I thought you were implying that one sounded better than the other? Technically, they should sound identical if you are using an output device that supports both. WASAPI will probably use a little more cpu resource but the difference is negligible on a modern system.


----------



## Henery

I have enjoyed using this plug-in in Wavelab and have tried to get it working with Foobar,but with no luck.My problem is that i can´t find the VST bridge in the DSP Manager window or any other VST plug-ins.The VST 2.4 adapter is in the Installed Components window.Don´t know how to fix this problem.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





henery said:


> I have enjoyed using this plug-in in Wavelab and have tried to get it working with Foobar,but with no luck.My problem is that i can´t find the VST bridge in the DSP Manager window or any other VST plug-ins.The VST 2.4 adapter is in the Installed Components window.Don´t know how to fix this problem.


 
  Just use George Yohng's VST wrapper. Install it and it will appear in your task bar (bottom of your screen). You install it inside Foobar components and operate it from your task bar. It is very simple and works as it should. Only thing is you can only use one VST plugin at a time with this wrapper.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





chodi said:


> Just use George Yohng's VST wrapper. Install it and it will appear in your task bar (bottom of your screen). You install it inside Foobar components and operate it from your task bar. It is very simple and works as it should. Only thing is you can only use one VST plugin at a time with this wrapper.


 
   
  Actually, foo_vst and foo_dsp_vstwrap each have VSTs that are problematic, but switching between VST bridges is recommended indeed. Also, chainers can be used to add multiple VSTs in a single instance.


----------



## MHOE

If someone is interested, I can share my settings to give a clue what you can get with TB Isone (using HEADPHONES!):
   
  1) Pure and very natural-sounding crosfeed:
   
   

   
   
  2) Crossfeed + a bit of spatial effect without effecting the source quality too much:
   
   

   
   
  3) More-or-less-natural "FULL-TBisone" mode:
   
   

   
   - 100 % HRTF is a need to let all Isone's features sound right (hugely tested)
   - 83.5 % Ear size seems to work for me the best as well as for chinesekiwi , don't know if it says something but I figured out the value before seeing him posting it here (months ago)
   - Head size HAS TO BE ADJUSTED to work for you! I would suggest to use an angle ruler to accurately estimate the 30° degrees angle to the right and to the left.
   - Loudspeaker's frequency response to FLAT
   - Room preset: SMALL STUDIO or MIDFIELD (your preference) with adjusted SpkLev to the "default value" (see above)
   - CSC on, definitely
   
  Hope it helps someone. I have been testing TB Isone for months with different genres so it should give at least a clue to achieve good results


----------



## bluemonkeyflyer

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> Isone Pro doesn't screw up imaging at all:
> 
> Here's a fully binaural song (and a damn good one)
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm a long time lurker waiting for the Mac version of JRiver. I hope it will function as a VST Host so I can start to use Isone. I know there are other work-arounds but they seem too complicated and expensive.
   
  I'm always on the lookout for binaural recordings. Thanks posting this one. Links to any others much appreciated.  Here's a link to several interesting ones --->  *HERE.*


----------



## silversurfer616

Whatever setting I try with my LCD2,it always sounds good as in WOW....thats different,but in the end it is too coloured !


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Whatever setting I try with my LCD2,it always sounds good as in WOW....thats different,but in the end it is too coloured !


 
   
  The LCD-2 haven't been a good headphone to use with Isone for me either.
  HD600 works much better.


----------



## PunkJr

I've been testing Isone for a month now. I am the opposite to some here, in that I really didn't want this programme to work. For some reason I wanted to send a bit perfect signal to my Audeophilleo, because People say that it is important. I've switched it on and off for days at a time,my conclusion is that I can't live without it. It makes listening to my LCD-2.2's a joy, with no fatigue whatever. 
   
  I've found that zeroing (no yellow showing) the speaker "Spk.Lev" was the biggest improvement, it turned a compressed muffled sound clear and crisp. If this DSP cost ten times the price, I'd have still bought it. I may not get bit perfect going through anymore, but now I'm enjoying my music more.  I've also turned the internal volume down 10db, and Volume Levelling - no clip.


----------



## Sweden

SpkLev only changes the amount of dB and have no change on the effect or sound what I can tell, non. Of course higher volumes makes music sound better but that's another story.
  You get the biggest change sonically with changing Distance and Speaker angle.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





punkjr said:


> I've switched it on and off for days at a time,my conclusion is that I can't live without it. It makes listening to my LCD-2.2's a joy, with no fatigue whatever.


 
  I use use Isone with my Beyer T1's and my Stax 407's. I totally agree with your statement, I could not live without it whatever the price. I listen mostly to classical music and Isone puts me into the performance. I have heard people say they don't like it, but I think they haven't really given it a chance. In my opinion this takes headphone listening to a completely different level of enjoyment.


----------



## StudioSound

I recently purchased JRiver Media Center, partly because of the headphone options, and have spent some time with this and the built-in crossfeed function.

Firstly, I think the built-in crossfeed options are garbage. There is a very noticeable shift in frequency response, and while the soundstage gets a bit wider, it sounds more like you have speakers on either side of your head and there is no middle to the audio. Everything feels... stretched out. And audio quality in general seems to take a nosedive. A lot of my music just sounds really low fidelity with it enabled.

I've spent some time with Isone over the last couple of days now. Initially i was hoping to make use of Isone Surround for film playback, but it's only being sent a downmixed stereo track.
But that's not the Isone product we're discussing here anyway.

After spending some time going through every built-in preset, while listening to a number of tracks, and reading over the manual, I think I've begun to get the hang of it.

For me, I was not looking to recreate the sound of sitting in a room with speakers. What I was looking for, was a more coherent soundfield without that gap in the middle that headphones often have. Properly configured, Isone does a _great_ job with this. With my current settings, it's moving the soundfield forward, and eliminating the gap in the middle. It still sounds like I am listening to headphones, but offers a more natural/comfortable listening experience. It's very much one of those things you notice more when it's missing, rather than when you first turn it on. The "headphone sound" was never a complaint of mine in the past, until I started to use 3D audio in games recently.

It's particularly impressive if you mute one of the channels before feeding it into Isone. Normally only having one channel playing is very uncomfortable to listen to with headphones (especially if you mute it during playback) but it's fine with Isone running.


What I don't like at all, is the "room designer" feature - that's for people that want to make it sound like they are listening to speakers in a room, rather than just wanting a more relaxed headphone experience. To me, it just sounds like it's adding a ton of reverb and I am in a perfectly square, totally empty room.

That's fine if it's what you want, and if you're really looking for that "outside your head" sound, but it's not for me.






Another thing is that, at least with the settings I'm using, it does seem to boost the low end a bit, even with the "Flat" preset, and CSC enabled. If I decide to purchase it, I will probably look at adjusting the frequency curve to help reduce that a bit.


I have also found that with some tracks that _do_ have good imaging on headphones, Isone can make the center sound a bit "shouty". While this is HRTF and not Crossfeed, it would be nice to have a "center" control to reduce it a little. Maybe I just need to spend more time adjusting it.


I will say this though, my experience with crossfeed in JRiver Media Center and from using Isone has certainly reduced my interest in buying a Phonitor. At least in JRiver where it's using 64-bits of internal precision for processing, there doesn't seem to be any real degradation of the sound quality, and HRTF sounds a lot better than Crossfeed. (I've tried other software implementations of Crossfeed in the past too) I'm quite sure the Phonitor's crossfeed is better than JRiver's, but it's still only crossfeed.


----------



## Chodi

I keep the "Room" settings turned off also. I played with those settings extensively and finally came to the conclusion that they just muck with the sound. Once I kept the room setting off I was able to keep the tonal character of my headphones intact and still get the benefit of the HRTF features which move the performance in front of me and fill the center image.


----------



## beatfreak

Quick question where are you guys purchasing Isone Pro from?  Thanks.


----------



## cdd3068

Quote: 





beatfreak said:


> Quick question where are you guys purchasing Isone Pro from?  Thanks.


 
  Not sure with everyone else, but I'm using the older version by Jeroen Breebaart on his website...there is a free VST bundle that has some goodies. I'm sure the newer version is better, but at least you can see what is out there. 
   
  http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/audio_vst_jb.htm


----------



## PunkJr

http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





beatfreak said:


> Quick question where are you guys purchasing Isone Pro from?  Thanks.


 
  TB Isone is the newer version, and AFAIK, Isone Pro (the older version) isn't being sold anymore, but you can always just ask Jeroen to sell you the older version if he's willing. 
   
  You can match TB Isone to Isone Pro's settings and sound, so it really doesn't matter which one you pick. Before I figured out how to match them, I preferred Isone Pro, but now either one is fine.


----------



## beatfreak

Quote: 





cdd3068 said:


> Not sure with everyone else, but I'm using the older version by Jeroen Breebaart on his website...there is a free VST bundle that has some goodies. I'm sure the newer version is better, but at least you can see what is out there.
> 
> http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/audio_vst_jb.htm


 
  Ok, thanks I will look into it.


----------



## KiruDub

I've been out of the loop for a while, and after my Denon d2000's croaked, I came to this forum to get back up to speed.
   
  I found this thread while lurking, and gave it a shot, using it with Logic Pro for my music production.
   
  I presently have some basic KRK Rockit 5 near field monitors, and for various reasons I actually don't use them that much, so lately I'd been doing mixing and composition in Logic using headphones (presently HE400s).
   
  I still haven't totally calibrated Isone for my room, speakers, etc., but there's a drastic change to the soundstage and levels so far on the mixes I added it to. This is a good thing, and what the plugin was designed for. Again, this is a tool, made for a specific reason.
   
  I've notice no sound quality degradation from any of the live instruments (drums, guitars, vocals) or virtual instruments (Omnisphere, Trillian, BFD) in my tracks.
  The room setting _can_ introduce some coloration, but, again, that's the point of this plug-in.
   
  As far as using it it with my music collection, I noticed a pleasant (and obvious) difference to the music soundstage. IMO, it really showcases how odd music can sound through headphones.
   
  Yeah, I'd rather use great monitors to do my work, but until my office/studio is remodeled, this is gonna be fine!
   
  Lunatique, thanks for the heads up, and the help you've given us here and at Gearslutz.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





lunatique said:


> TB Isone is the newer version, and AFAIK, Isone Pro (the older version) isn't being sold anymore, but you can always just ask Jeroen to sell you the older version if he's willing.
> 
> You can match TB Isone to Isone Pro's settings and sound, so it really doesn't matter which one you pick. Before I figured out how to match them, I preferred Isone Pro, but now either one is fine.


 
  I know this is an old thread but I finally got round to trying the new TB Isone and I much prefer the original Isone Pro. I played with TB Isone for days and no matter how I set it I could not get the uncolored sound I get with Isone Pro. To me the two programs sound very different. I am sticking with the original Isone Pro. It became obvious to me that even if I could get TB Isone to sound as neutral and uncolored as Isone Pro (I never could) it would not bring any improvement so it wasn't worth the effort. Isone Pro is still the most neutral crossfeed plugin I've used. There is some slight low frequency loss in Isone Pro that is not present in TB Isone but that is the only improvement and too many negatives.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





chodi said:


> I know this is an old thread but I finally got round to trying the new TB Isone and I much prefer the original Isone Pro. I played with TB Isone for days and no matter how I set it I could not get the uncolored sound I get with Isone Pro. To me the two programs sound very different. I am sticking with the original Isone Pro. It became obvious to me that even if I could get TB Isone to sound as neutral and uncolored as Isone Pro (I never could) it would not bring any improvement so it wasn't worth the effort. Isone Pro is still the most neutral crossfeed plugin I've used. There is some slight low frequency loss in Isone Pro that is not present in TB Isone but that is the only improvement and too many negatives.


 
   
  I was able to match the two, but I can't remember the exact settings. If there aren't any features/improvements in TB Isone that's important to you, then you can certainly go on using Isone Pro. That's what I do, since there's really nothing in TB Isone I feel I need to have over Isone Pro.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

My god, I've never really felt that the music I'm listening to is being played in my room with the crossfeed dsp's I've used before. I'm using the preset HRTF setting and this is just phenomenal. I can't imagine what this would sound like with an HD 800 :eek:.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





toddthemetalgod said:


> My god, I've never really felt that the music I'm listening to is being played in my room with the crossfeed dsp's I've used before. I'm using the preset HRTF setting and this is just phenomenal. I can't imagine what this would sound like with an HD 800
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, I use Isone with my T1 and it is also amazing to my ears. Everyone's ears are different so the "amazing" sound you and I hear with Isone cannot be assured with another system and another set of ears. It seems that in my case and yours the synergy with Isone just locks in place. I totally agree that Isone brings the performance into my listening room.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

chodi said:


> Yes, I use Isone with my T1 and it is also amazing to my ears. Everyone's ears are different so the "amazing" sound you and I hear with Isone cannot be assured with another system and another set of ears. It seems that in my case and yours the synergy with Isone just locks in place. I totally agree that Isone brings the performance into my listening room.



Could you not just adjust the Isone settings to make them work for whatever headphone you want? I was thinking of purchasing an LCD-2 since it has a very natural sound, and I think that Isone would give it a very nice speaker feel. This is going off of what I've read about it, I can't hear one locally.


----------



## Chodi

In my own experience I did not find that I could ever get Isone to work well with the HE500's when I had them. I have since sold them as I could not deal with the weight of those headphones. I also kept reaching for my T1's as they just seemed more musical to me. The point is that I've had some success with Isone and my Stax system but the HE500's just didn't like Isone. I cannot explain that result but I would point out that you cannot assume it will work equally well with every headphone. With my T1's Isone gives me a performance that is like listening to live music in my room. I found that the Isone settings with one headphone would not be optimized for another headphone. I had to recalibrate for each headphone. You can save profiles in Isone so it is easy to save a profile for each of your headphones. It is possible that my results with my T1's were just so much to my liking that I never worked hard enough to get the most out of Isone with the other headphones.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

Apparently the LCD-2 doesn't work well with Isone and colours the sound. I don't mind a bit of colouration as long as it makes the headphone sound more musical and doesn't bring out any of its flaws. I hope it doesn't screw up the imaging, but then again you said your T1 sounds great with it. So at least I know I can find a high-end headphone with synergy with Isone.


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





toddthemetalgod said:


> Apparently the LCD-2 doesn't work well with Isone and colours the sound. I don't mind a bit of colouration as long as it makes the headphone sound more musical and doesn't bring out any of its flaws. I hope it doesn't screw up the imaging, but then again you said your T1 sounds great with it. So at least I know I can find a high-end headphone with synergy with Isone.


 
  I have used Isone with every single headphone I've ever owned, including the LCD-2, and there are no problems.
   
  I want to remind everyone that the "coloration" you guys keep mentioning is simply how your headphones would sound like if they became speakers placed in a high-end, acoustically treated mastering studio (albeit a virtual one). It is supposed to be scientifically correct, because how sound interacts with your ears and your head in a room will become part of the equation, thus the Head Related Transfer Function that's the core of Isone's algorithm. That is what gives Isone its realism, and without it, Isone wouldn't sound realistic anymore--it'll just be another typical crossfeed.
   
  There are only a handful of headphones in the world that sounds ideally neutral/accurate without EQ'ing, and I apply custom EQ curves matched to specific headphones whenever I use headphones. My custom EQ + Isone = sonic bliss. 
   
  You can learn about how to EQ your headphone here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/551426/my-eq-curves-for-lcd-2-hd650-m50-and-007mk2


----------



## JWahl

I recently started using TB Isone with my HD800 and have been very impressed so far.  I was previous using the "subtle" crossfeed setting on JRiver with some custom parametric EQ.  At first it seemed a little rolled off or muted, but with further listening I realized it's just the sense of depth and center image.
   
  I also have found that many recordings that I had sounded thin and flat suddenly sounded correct after engaging TB Isone.  Particularly studio produced, or electronic music, that were likely mixed over near field monitors.  I do leave the "room designer" off since I have no desire to simulate the additional reverb it adds.
   
  Now, I'm honestly having trouble going back to listening without.  After ears adjusting, the HD800 actually sounds weird without it.  Much more natural and less fatiguing overall.  And I think it helps showcase how accurate the HD800 really is.  Imaging cues seem more accurate and make more sense to the individual recordings.


----------



## thegrobe

I have been trying out Isone Pro and TB Isone the last few days and the results so far are pretty impressive. I am pretty sure my settings are as correct, but I will continue to tweak just a bit here and there to make sure things are right. 
   
  The effect works better on some material than others..And that's fine. I was basically looking for a decent crossfeed so I keep the other settings fairly subtle. Even then, it sneaks up on you and surprises at times.
   
  The other night I was listening to some laid back electronic music (connect.ohm) and had given up on fiddling with settings, obsessing over this-n-that (you know, you have all been there) and was just enjoying the music. My laptop screen was about 3 feet away, I looked up and hit the stop button and I got the strangest sensation....The feeling that the "shutting off" of the sound came from the laptop screen. In front of me. Cool. 
   
  And no I wasn't drunk or on any drugs. Ha ha Just the effect working as intended.


----------



## rrahman

Has anyone successfully used this with Spotify?


----------



## bluemonkeyflyer

Has anyone successfully used this with the Beta version for Mac?


----------



## Dunkelbunt

Is there any way to get it to work on android?


----------



## Lunatique

You guys should contact Jeroen and ask him directly about technical/support issues, since he's the only one who knows the future developing map of Isone. He doesn't seem to be monitoring this thread any more, so asking here is not going to get you accurate answers.


----------



## douglatins

Is this still great? I have DT880 headphones and creative zxr coming
  I did some searching and its only for WMP?


----------



## steaxauce

Quote: 





rrahman said:


> Has anyone successfully used this with Spotify?


 

 Yes!  If you're on a Mac.  My setup is Spotify -> Soundflower -> AU Lab running Isone plugin.  All OS X sounds now go through Isone and whatever other plugins I use with AU Lab.  It took a while.
   
  By the way, has anyone compared this with the FHX plugin for Fidelia?


----------



## kalston

Quote: 





douglatins said:


> Is this still great? I have DT880 headphones and creative zxr coming
> I did some searching and its only for WMP?


 
   
  It's still great and my DT 880 sound superb with it. You can use it with any player that supports VSTs (Jriver, foobar etc) though with some players you might need to add a custom VST host or something (it's actually the case with foobar).
   
  If you like what Isone does and don't mind paying (and it's not THAT expensive) I heartily recommend getting JRiver Media Center along with Isone since it is a fantastic media player with excellent support and does 64 bit fp processing + dithering for 24 bit output and this is definitely a plus when doing post-processing (such as Isone). 
   
  Whether the difference between normal 24b output, dithered 24b output or between 32fp and 64fp processing is "audible" is not really the question IMO since it is technically better and can only be beneficial (same reason why I use ASIO over any other audio output and lossless formats).


----------



## rrahman

Quote: 





steaxauce said:


> Yes!  If you're on a Mac.  My setup is Spotify -> Soundflower -> AU Lab running Isone plugin.  All OS X sounds now go through Isone and whatever other plugins I use with AU Lab.  It took a while.
> 
> By the way, has anyone compared this with the FHX plugin for Fidelia?


 
   
  So I dl'd and installed soundflower, AU lab, and TB Isone.  I not sure how to set it up or what settings to use though.  How did you set it up?  Thanks, I'd be eternally grateful.


----------



## siptu

i think isone could have two different uses because of the large difference between headphones.
  there's a lot of the more expensive headphones that have depth.. some people call it soundstage.. some experienced people call it a lack of power.
   
  i'm thinking maybe the reverb isn't always heard on those headphones.. instead it acts like a spatial processing that uplifts more details.
   
  when i tried it, it was a hot (temperature) room echo that sounded like the bitdpeth of the impulse response was low.
   
  i think it is better to go the invisible route without any room.. because that is what most audiophiles with speakers try to achieve.
   
  but if isone is doing what i think it is, as said above, i am glad to see them happy.
  we need more plugins that draw out details & increase the slew.. because usually everything else is simply a trim (reduction) or volume adjustment for portions of the signal (already done in the production studio).


----------



## Sonic Defender

Tried the isone pro, but it shifted the sound of my D7000s quite a bit and in the end I couldn't live with the change. The effect was seductive, but in my mind adding anymore colouration wasn't worthwhile. I use my speakers when I need that sound, plus for me, headphones have their own charm. I'm not saying it is an either or situation, and there is no reason somebody can't like using the plugin. As I said, the sound was seductive.


----------



## remilio

Tried Isone Pro - didn't like it. I strongly prefer bs2b + Sheppi VSTs for creating (pseudo)binaural effect.


----------



## Nylerb

Hello !
   
  I ve been playing around with TB Isone for a couple of hours.
  I can't notice ANY difference when I move the ear or head size... (I do notice differences with the others options). 
   
  I am using a AKG k701, Schitt Lyr AMP and Music Streamer II DAC. Is it me or my headphone ?


----------



## pOOB73

Quote: 





nylerb said:


> I can't notice ANY difference when I move the ear or head size... (I do notice differences with the others options).


 
   
  I assume the ITDs button on the left is activated?


----------



## Dunkelbunt

What ITD button?


----------



## thegrobe

dunkelbunt said:


> What ITD button?



Are you using isone pro or TB isone?


----------



## Dunkelbunt

TB isone


----------



## Nylerb

I use TB isone as well, there is no ITD button.


----------



## thegrobe

Quote: 





dunkelbunt said:


> TB isone


 
  x 2...there is no ITD button. Best bet is to very carefully read the instruction document. There really is no way to get a decent result without following it exactly. (maybe you already have?) I don't have the program in front of me and it's been awhile since I used it, but I think on TB Isone you need to have "room" enabled for those settings to function? Again, this is where the manual is helpful.
   
  I remember though you should set "HTRF" at 100% while making those head/ear adjustments.


----------



## pOOB73

Quote: 





dunkelbunt said:


> What ITD button?


 
  Looks like this for me:
   

   
  I use the Pro Version (free as well) with Foobar2000 and yes, reading the documentation on setting it up helped.


----------



## DarKen23

Ive tried both the TB Isone and Isone Pro. I think the TB Isone version is a lot more advanced, it allows the user to dial in a preferred setting to pinpoint accuracy. The Isone Pro is much much easier to use, giving a "wow" effect for a new user. For anyone trying it the first time, try the isone pro version first. I had wayyy better results the first time around with the isone pro. Try these settings for LCD users that would like to achieve a more open sound. 



After extensive listening, Im happy to say that isone does not add any additional or unnecessary reverb. Once youve calibrated it to your settings, trying turning it off and on, this will allow you to see that the overall tone does not appear to be tampered with, the entire spectrum sounds very realistic and natural. Even when I turn up the volume on my amp, I do not hear any distortion nor does it sound "fake", to my ears it sounds as if I am listening to my monitors at the correct distance and the room is filled with music.

Trying to calibrate it to a single track or a random selection was too complicating for me. What Ive done to calibrate it was to snip 2 clips of a song, 1 edited clip contained a female vocal only at 5secs and the other clip was a 4/4 beat no vocals also at 5secs. All I did was have either of the 5sec clip play in loop mode, each knob was adjusted over that looping clip, doing this allowed me to figure out what each knob induced or reduced. Once clip 1&2 had been calibrated to my liking, playing back to an entire track was just mind blowing. I highly recommend isone, I absolutely love it--in fact, I cannot listening to anything without it on and has taken my LCD2s on another level.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> x 2...there is no ITD button. Best bet is to very carefully read the instruction document. There really is no way to get a decent result without following it exactly. (maybe you already have?) I don't have the program in front of me and it's been awhile since I used it, but I think on TB Isone you need to have "room" enabled for those settings to function? Again, this is where the manual is helpful.
> 
> I remember though you should set "HTRF" at 100% while making those head/ear adjustments.


 
  In TB Isone there is no need to activate the room settings in order to have HRTF function. In my experience the HRTF function make very small changes that are too difficult to notice. I do notice a difference if I turn off the HRTF. The effect for me is very subtle. I also find that it works well with some recordings and with others it is really bad. I listen mostly to classical music. I don't use the room setting as they do color things too much for my taste. Still, for some recordings TB Isone really makes them shine. I use it mostly on recordings that do not present a natural sound stage. It is also somewhat dependent on your choice of headphones.


----------



## Heaby

Only been using Tb Isone for a few days but already loving it. Really the only negative is with the interface, namely not being able to set a default preset. If I close down TB Isone's interface and open it again, it resets to the default "welcome to isone...".
   
  Is the only solution to this to have the interface always open when playing music?


----------



## DarKen23

heaby said:


> Only been using Tb Isone for a few days but already loving it. Really the only negative is with the interface, namely not being able to set a default preset. If I close down TB Isone's interface and open it again, it resets to the default "welcome to isone...".
> 
> Is the only solution to this to have the interface always open when playing music?



The solution would be to purchase the TB isone.


----------



## Heaby

I have purchased it. Saving a custom preset only works if I save it as one of program 33 to 64, not any custom name. And as I said it resets to the default preset the moment I close TB Isone and reopen it.
   
  Is it working any differently for everyone else? If so, what am I doing wrong?


----------



## DarKen23

heaby said:


> I have purchased it. Saving a custom preset only works if I save it as one of program 33 to 64, not any custom name. And as I said it resets to the default preset the moment I close TB Isone and reopen it.
> 
> Is it working any differently for everyone else? If so, what am I doing wrong?



Try saving your settings on "program#___"


----------



## Lunatique

Quote: 





heaby said:


> I have purchased it. Saving a custom preset only works if I save it as one of program 33 to 64, not any custom name. And as I said it resets to the default preset the moment I close TB Isone and reopen it.
> 
> Is it working any differently for everyone else? If so, what am I doing wrong?


 
  It also depends on the VST host you use. I use J River Media Center to host Isone and it always stays on whatever preset I've last used, and Media Center also allows you to save presets for it (instead of the plugin), which is great to naming your own presets if the plugin doesn't it.


----------



## Heaby

I'm testing J River but I prefer foobar. I'm using George Yohng's VST wrapper and I guess that's why it won't work in foobar.
  Is there any other wrapper that works in foobar with TB Isone in the correct way?
  
  Edit:
   
  Found this: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=84947
   
  Everything now works as it should.


----------



## DarKen23

heaby said:


> I'm testing J River but I prefer foobar. I'm using George Yohng's VST wrapper and I guess that's why it won't work in foobar.
> Is there any other wrapper that works in foobar with TB Isone in the correct way?
> 
> 
> ...



You should stick with jriver, it's of a much better host for vst plugins. If tb isone doesn't work for you, you can alway try isone pro, isone pro is much easier to use for first time users it's still the one I am using. I'm also using easyQ in addition.


----------



## ungawa

Is anyone using Isone with Audirvana plus?


----------



## Heaby

I'll keep testing jriver but I've customized foobar to my liking and I don't want to give it up 
  I haven't tried isone pro yet but I'll try it and see if it works as well as tb isone.


----------



## DarKen23

heaby said:


> I'll keep testing jriver but I've customized foobar to my liking and I don't want to give it up
> I haven't tried isone pro yet but I'll try it and see if it works as well as tb isone.



Ive stated the TB Isone is of a more advanced version of isone pro for the user, both have the same approach but with tb isone you are able to more finely tune your desirable sound. I suggest you try isone pro version first, I found that version to give me a more "wow" affect and its also much easier to use if youre a first time user. Good luck
Link http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/
click the JB Plugin tab and DL the bundle zip.


----------



## Lunatique

Someone from Gearslutz just told me about another HRTF headphone plugin called Ircam HEar: http://www.fluxhome.com/products/plug_ins/ircam_hear
   
  Its realism is comparable to Isone I think, but it doesn't have all those controls and presets that emulate different environments and speakers, and it costs more as well. You can download the trial version and see how you like it. I see no reason to get it over Isone since it has less features and costs more. Maybe the people that don't want to fiddle with the controls of Isone might like how simple HEar is.


----------



## nxtgenlva

Gonna try this in musicbee tonight, will post results


----------



## Blackshadow

Quote: 





ungawa said:


> Is anyone using Isone with Audirvana plus?


 

 I run Isone Pro with my iMac and Audirvana plus.  I have custom presets designed for each of my headphones (Beyer DT880/250, Grado 225i, and ATM50).  I mainly use Isone for the HRTF function and basic eq.
   
  Do you have other questions about the set-up?


----------



## PetSoundZoo

Hello, I have Audirvana Plus and have downloaded Isone Pro trial on my Macbook Pro, but I'm not sure how to get this set-up started. Do I need to open certain contents within Isone Pro folder to enable it or am I missing another software component to begin with? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## DarKen23

petsoundzoo said:


> Hello, I have Audirvana Plus and have downloaded Isone Pro trial on my Macbook Pro, but I'm not sure how to get this set-up started. Do I need to open certain contents within Isone Pro folder to enable it or am I missing another software component to begin with? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.



You need to add the contents into the plugin or addon folder of the player.


----------



## PetSoundZoo

Perhaps, I am not doing it correctly, but I do not see a plugin or addon folder. I'm not very savvy when it comes to these matters, but thank you.


----------



## DarKen23

petsoundzoo said:


> Perhaps, I am not doing it correctly, but I do not see a plugin or addon folder. I'm not very savvy when it comes to these matters, but thank you.



Download and use jriver, while many have personal preferences with media players, I honestly feel that jriver is the best, it offers a great UI, is user friendly (especially with plugins), and it sounds the best to my ears. Jriver is a great vst host for plugins


----------



## Sonic Defender

Totally agree with the JRiver recommendation, totally love it. Well worth the money in my opinion. JRiver and my Gungnir DAC enabled me to sell my Audiolab 8200CD which was a fantastic sounding player.


----------



## DarKen23

I dont know if I should be saying this but, there is a way to use Jriver for free. Just install jriver with the internet connection off. When I installed it that way, there was no count-down of the trial days left.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> I dont know if I should be saying this but, there is a way to use Jriver for free. Just install jriver with the internet connection off. When I installed it that way, there was no count-down of the trial days left.


 
  It phones home. They will catch it. If you go to Help/ registration I am sure you will see that it is not registered. Sorry to burst your balloon. It's only 50 bucks so pay them for their good hard work.


----------



## Lunatique

These apps don't cost an arm and a leg, and if you are a passionate music lover who will get countless hours of aural bliss out of using one of the very best media library manager/player/DSP host out there, the amount J River charges is really negligible.


----------



## DarKen23

lunatique said:


> These apps don't cost an arm and a leg, and if you are a passionate music lover who will get countless hours of aural bliss out of using one of the very best media library manager/player/DSP host out there, the amount J River charges is really negligible.



That's very true, if I absolutely had no choice, I honestly wouldn't mind paying.


Edit: I liked Jriver so much that I made a purchase


----------



## DarKen23

Bumpin an old thread that should continue getting more attention . 

Any HD800 owners using Isone that is kind enough to post picture of their current settings?


----------



## Chodi

darken23 said:


> Bumpin an old thread that should continue getting more attention
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I use Beyer T1 so sorry can't help but I am happy to see this thread get some attention. I never thought this program got the attention it deserves. I use this program every day. Sometimes depending on the material I only use the crossfeed and sometimes I use the full system. Amazing dsp when used properly.


----------



## DarKen23

chodi said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Bumpin an old thread that should continue getting more attention  .
> ...


+1. It took my LCD2 to another level as well as really opening up the sound stage. Once I had it calibrated to the LCD2s I couldn't listening to anything without having isone in the chain.


----------



## bluemonkeyflyer

Which version of Isone is recommended? TB? Pro? Other?
  
 And which version of JRiver for MacBook Pro is best matched with Isone?
  
 Thanks


----------



## DarKen23

bluemonkeyflyer said:


> Which version of Isone is recommended? TB? Pro? Other?
> 
> And which version of JRiver for MacBook Pro is best matched with Isone?
> 
> Thanks


Technically the TB isone is the better version allowing you to calibrate things to a tee. I use the isone pro only because it's easier to use while still providing a "wow" effect. The "wow" effect can be taken to a higher degree with TB isone if you are willing to spend time with it and/or have knowledge with crossfeeds.


----------



## Chodi

bluemonkeyflyer said:


> Which version of Isone is recommended? TB? Pro? Other?
> 
> And which version of JRiver for MacBook Pro is best matched with Isone?
> 
> Thanks


 
 TBIsone offers some preset features that are really nice and easy to use. You can choose different levels of crossfeed with a single click. You can also choose different profiles that are preset staring points for tuning in the program. I had the earlier version and I find this one works even better and easier to get great results. I use JRriver 17 and it integrate perfectly. I had 18 and went back to 17.


----------



## DarKen23

chodi said:


> bluemonkeyflyer said:
> 
> 
> > Which version of Isone is recommended? TB? Pro? Other?
> ...


Not using JRMC19?


----------



## DarKen23

I forgot just how awesome Isone really is. The only thing that bothers me is that once you start listening with isone in the chain it becomes really tough to listen to anything without it . Heres what Ive got at the moment using the HD800 and Yulong stack


----------



## pOOB73

darken23 said:


> I forgot just how awesome Isone really is. The only thing that bothers me is that once you start listening with isone in the chain it becomes really tough to listen to anything without it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Tiny head, large ears.. are you a bat?


----------



## bluemonkeyflyer

I've downloaded TB Isone and JRiver 19 for Mac.
  
 Where can I find step by step setup information? I found the JRiver FAQ page but the links won't open for me.
  
 Has anyone created a guide?


----------



## Chodi

darken23 said:


> Not using JRMC19?


 
 I upgraded to 18 and found some glitches so I went back to 17. Frankly, for what I use it for the added features in 19 are of no use to me so why change what's working.


----------



## brunk

darken23 said:


> I forgot just how awesome Isone really is. The only thing that bothers me is that once you start listening with isone in the chain it becomes really tough to listen to anything without it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oooh, I'll have to check that out. Thanks


----------



## DarKen23

bluemonkeyflyer said:


> I've downloaded TB Isone and JRiver 19 for Mac.
> 
> Where can I find step by step setup information? I found the JRiver FAQ page but the links won't open for me.
> 
> Has anyone created a guide?


What's the problem?


----------



## DarKen23

poob73 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > I forgot just how awesome Isone really is. The only thing that bothers me is that once you start listening with isone in the chain it becomes really tough to listen to anything without it  . Heres what Ive got at the moment using the HD800 and Yulong stack
> ...



 Got a problem?


----------



## bluemonkeyflyer

darken23 said:


> What's the problem?


 
 I've pasted TB Isone into users/library/audio/vst, also into users/library/audio/components. In DSP manage plug-ins, I can navigate to TB Isone but, once I get to TB Isone VST sub-folder, it's not highlighted and I cannot get it into JRiver 19 for Macs.
  
 Is there a tutorial, somewhere?
  
 Thanks for any help from MacBook Pro users, or others.


----------



## DarKen23

bluemonkeyflyer said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > What's the problem?
> ...


I had trouble initially as well. You'll have to do it manually. Click dsp studio tab, under all the preset dsp you'll see a "manage plugin" tab, click that and click add jriver, vst, etc and proceed with the installation, navigate the isone dll file.


----------



## bluemonkeyflyer

darken23 said:


> I had trouble initially as well. You'll have to do it manually. Click dsp studio tab, under all the preset dsp you'll see a "manage plugin" tab, click that and click add jriver, vst, etc and proceed with the installation, navigate the isone dll file.


 
 Thanks for the help. I cannot locate the isone .dll file...?
  
 I can find the downloaded TB Isone file that is unzipped.
  
 I can find AU and VST.
  
 I can find Components.
  
 No joy.


----------



## DarKen23

bluemonkeyflyer said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > I had trouble initially as well. You'll have to do it manually. Click dsp studio tab, under all the preset dsp you'll see a "manage plugin" tab, click that and click add jriver, vst, etc and proceed with the installation, navigate the isone dll file.
> ...


Epic fail . just re download it and try the process again. Make sure you know where it's being downloaded on your computer


----------



## bluemonkeyflyer

darken23 said:


> Epic fail
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 LOL
  
 Epic is my first name.  Fail is my last.
  
 I know where both TB Isone and JRiver for Mac are located on my Mac. I've searched for .dll, Isone dll, etc with no luck.
  
 I will uninstall and try again.
  
 Many thanks for the help.


----------



## Priidik

To me these cross-feed plug-ins largely mess up timbre, i've tried Isone Pro and TB Isone and Redline Monitor. 
 Cans are HD800.
 For example hi-hats and snares sound like a phaser plugin would have applied to them. I've configured them every way possible and a-b compared with my studio speakers, and still i can't get linear sound and original timbre.
  
 Can anyone confirm my findings?


----------



## brunk

priidik said:


> To me these cross-feed plug-ins largely mess up timbre, i've tried Isone Pro and TB Isone and Redline Monitor.
> Cans are HD800.
> For example hi-hats and snares sound like a phaser plugin would have applied to them. I've configured them every way possible and a-b compared with my studio speakers, and still i can't get linear sound and original timbre.
> 
> Can anyone confirm my findings?


 
 Post up your settings, along with problem tracks. Have you followed the actual recommended setup process in the manual?


----------



## ironmine

Hello!

 It's been a while since I had read this forum last time.
  
 I want to ask you crossfeed addicts - have you recently come across anything better than IsonePro or Redline Monitor?

 Or, the situation with crossfeed plugins is still pretty much the same as it was 3-4 years ago and these two plugins are still the undisputed reigning kings of crossfeed sound?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Priidik

I had ditched the whole idea of using TB-Isone ever again in the morning, i was that frustrated.
 But in order not to make things up i set it up once again and listened to different albums. (listening right now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 I had an essay of complaints written already, then i started to delete lines, i noticed that actually only selection of albums are affected, coincidently the ones i listened in the morning.
  
 These settings work for most music. 
     I've tried suggested calibration and pretty much every setting excluding speaker cabinet resp and room designer features.
 I don't use any room effects, these sound too weird to me.
  
  
 It is easy to see from some freq domain analyzer plug-in (JRiver has one built in) that fr-response is weirdly distorted, if pink noise is fed through Isone.
 I understand that higher freq-s need to be lowered, but i am not so sure that adding awkward peaks/drop-outs to high-midrange and treble is needed. I think this may be what messes up timbre.
 Pink noise is not music on the other hand, it has mixed bag of everything regarding phase and freg content so maybe it even has to be that way.
  
 Particular tracks where timbre is very wrong with Isone:
 >Puscifer - Toma ( starting hi-hats are sounding noticeably darker/weird)
 >entire album: Conditions of My Parole
 >other Puscifer albums too to lesser degree (not affected album: V for Vagina)
 >Steak number 8 (album: When the candle dies out)
  
 Bypassing Isone opens new information and changes timbre right in these listed recordings. To my ears.
  
 Interesting thing is that so many recordings don't suffer any degradation at all, just different (mostly better) presentation. For example Radiohead stuff is like that. Classical seems unaffected aswell.
 Maybe if some albums are recorded in some semi-binaural way then Isone over-amplifies things?


----------



## ironmine

Prudik,
 Last time I compared the previous version (IsonePro), it was much better than the latest version of TB-Isone. Maybe this is where you problem lies.  Try IsonePro, not TB-Isone.


----------



## brunk

ironmine said:


> Prudik,
> Last time I compared the previous version (IsonePro), it was much better than the latest version of TB-Isone. Maybe this is where you problem lies.  Try IsonePro, not TB-Isone.


 
 I think the problem was just as he suggested, and what i was thinking - it's not a one-size fits all type of thing. There will always be problem tracks, but it's when you start to notice a consistent problem across all music that there needs to be an adjustment somewhere.
  
 Have you tried JRiver's own crossfeed? It's very minimal, but it might just do the trick on those tracks.


----------



## ironmine

brunk said:


> Have you tried JRiver's own crossfeed? It's very minimal, but it might just do the trick on those tracks.


 
  
 No, I use Foobar only.

 Has anybody tried this crossfeed plugin:
  
 http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=90761


----------



## Chodi

ironmine said:


> No, I use Foobar only.
> 
> Has anybody tried this crossfeed plugin:
> 
> http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=90761


 
 Yes I tried it. I've tried most of the available dsp for crossfeed. I went back to TB Isone. I agree that the original version of Isone is easier to use and easier to get acceptable results. Once I dialed in the new version of TB Isone I found it superior. You can use TB Isone just as crossfeed at various levels or use the the full package of choices for a really amazing, almost endless number of choices. Using this dsp I can make my headphones  produce a very realistic experience. I keep several presets to change based on the quality and style of the recording and music. The thing about TB Isone is that you can use it as minimal crossfeed or go all the way and simulate room acoustics. The out of head experience really adds to my enjoyment using headphones. The only negative is that it takes a lot of experimentation to get it right.


----------



## DarKen23

priidik said:


> I had ditched the whole idea of using TB-Isone ever again in the morning, i was that frustrated.
> But in order not to make things up i set it up once again and listened to different albums. (listening right now
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Why is your CSC turned off?


----------



## Chodi

priidik said:


> I had ditched the whole idea of using TB-Isone ever again in the morning, i was that frustrated.
> But in order not to make things up i set it up once again and listened to different albums. (listening right now
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just some observations on your settings. The T setting at maximum is active even when the "room" setting is off. I find anything beyond 40 to be too much. At maximum I would expect it to be way too much. You have also set the speaker angle at max. That will produce a very wide soundstage but at the loss of a solid center image. Something in the 30-35 range is more reasonable. If you are using foobar instead of J River that speaker volume setting can really mess things up. I understand you have to keep the peak volume below clipping, but in foobar it really does change the sound. In J River the speaker volume control is more transparent. Your room settings are extreme I can see why you don't like that.


----------



## Priidik

brunk said:


> I think the problem was just as he suggested, and what i was thinking - it's not a one-size fits all type of thing. There will always be problem tracks, but it's when you start to notice a consistent problem across all music that there needs to be an adjustment somewhere.
> 
> Have you tried JRiver's own crossfeed? It's very minimal, but it might just do the trick on those tracks.


 
 YEs, i have tried it. JRiver's own cross-feed is subtle, but never offensive. And again you are right, it does work with these tracks 
 Isone Pro to me is inferior to TB-Isone. It is even more prone to timbre problems in my experience.


----------



## Priidik

darken23 said:


> Why is your CSC turned off?


 
  
 CSC does not affect timbre at all, it tilts treble back up a little. To my ears at least.
 CSC on or off is not that important to me, might as well leave it off. Maybe that way it is shorter audio chain too?!


----------



## Priidik

priidik said:


> CSC does not affect timbre at all, it tilts treble back up a little. To my ears at least.
> CSC on or off is not that important to me, might as well leave it off. Maybe that way it is shorter audio chain too?!


 
 Ok, i confirmed with some more listening that  i was wrong. It lowers low treble/ high mid but rises higher frequencies. 
 Still, it feels like some information stays hidden when CSC is on.


----------



## Priidik

chodi said:


> Just some observations on your settings. The T setting at maximum is active even when the "room" setting is off. I find anything beyond 40 to be too much. At maximum I would expect it to be way too much. You have also set the speaker angle at max. That will produce a very wide soundstage but at the loss of a solid center image. Something in the 30-35 range is more reasonable. If you are using foobar instead of J River that speaker volume setting can really mess things up. I understand you have to keep the peak volume below clipping, but in foobar it really does change the sound. In J River the speaker volume control is more transparent. Your room settings are extreme I can see why you don't like that.


 
 With my edition of TB Isone (2.91) knob  ''T60'' is bypassed if room designer is off (which is the case if you review my original post), so are all the other room calibration features (Size, Early refl, Diff).
 Only Distance remains effective. These room settings are too awkward to me anyways. Only very limited recordings where no reverb is used these settings can make a difference in positive direction, i think.
 I use 45deg angle because anything lower than 40deg seems to make everything too mono-ish, and i have confirmed with studio monitors (which are at ~ 30 deg each) that 45 deg setting in Isone is closest to sound that monitors provide. Actually HD800's are very close to my monitors with Isone, which is a thing to behold.
  
 Despite complaints when i put my cans on i get startled often as it feels like my monitors are on-line (and making loud noise to disturb others in house), only to find out that they are not.


----------



## blueangel2323

ironmine said:


> Prudik,
> Last time I compared the previous version (IsonePro), it was much better than the latest version of TB-Isone. Maybe this is where you problem lies.  Try IsonePro, not TB-Isone.


 
 Just discovered this thread and downloaded the trial version of TB Isone. It's exactly the same as the full version, just without the ability to save your settings, right? I'm not much of a tweaker so just using the presets work just fine for me.
  
 How is the previous version better?


----------



## Priidik

blueangel2323 said:


> Just discovered this thread and downloaded the trial version of TB Isone. It's exactly the same as the full version, just without the ability to save your settings, right? I'm not much of a tweaker so just using the presets work just fine for me.
> 
> How is the previous version better?


 
 I think current TB Isone is better than Isone Pro.
 Although some earlier version of TB Isone sounded truly weird.
 Isone Pro is a bit easier to set up and has less tweaking possibilities.


----------



## relopez

I wanted to pipe in with my TB Isone experience. With the settings described below I recently listened to the Carlos Kleiber Vienna Philharmonic recording of Beethoven's 5th and 7th symphonies. I'm not very articulate in describing my impressions, but I will say that I could pinpoint the location of each instrument playing, and this location corresponded to where the instrument should be if you were sitting near the front of the audience, maybe 10 rows back. I've never heard imaging this precise. When I closed my eyes it was as if I were actually at the concert, in a way I've never heard with headphones before. At the same time the processing didn't seem to degrade the timbre of each instrument. They sounded very realistic. It was really a dramatic effect. 
  
 Anyway, that's my two cents. 
  
 Here's my audio chain:
  
 iTunes => Soundflower => AU Lab => TB Isone => optical out => Bifrost => Lyr => LCD2
  
 After some experimentation I found the settings in the screenshot below to sound good. I'd appreciate suggestions to improve these settings. They're based on the near field preset.
  
 Rob


----------



## Chodi

relopez said:


> I wanted to pipe in with my TB Isone experience. With the settings described below I recently listened to the Carlos Kleiber Vienna Philharmonic recording of Beethoven's 5th and 7th symphonies. I'm not very articulate in describing my impressions, but I will say that I could pinpoint the location of each instrument playing, and this location corresponded to where the instrument should be if you were sitting near the front of the audience, maybe 10 rows back. I've never heard imaging this precise. When I closed my eyes it was as if I were actually at the concert, in a way I've never heard with headphones before. At the same time the processing didn't seem to degrade the timbre of each instrument. They sounded very realistic. It was really a dramatic effect.
> 
> Anyway, that's my two cents.
> 
> ...


 
 How did you get that screen? I have never seen that before. Is that some new screen available in a new version of Isone? I haven't bothered to update my version of TB Isone in months I would like to know if that is some very new version?


----------



## relopez

chodi said:


> How did you get that screen? I have never seen that before. Is that some new screen available in a new version of Isone? I haven't bothered to update my version of TB Isone in months I would like to know if that is some very new version?


 
  
 To get that screen I started with the default view as shown below. At the top right the "Editor" drop down has another item called "Generic View". That view shows the numerical value of the model parameters. I don't know how far back this feature goes. My version is just a few weeks old.


----------



## Chodi

Thanks relopez for the information. My version is a few months old and does not have that box. No matter all the functions are the same I just use the default view.  I will have to download that version and see if there are any other differences but I'm real happy with what I have.
  
 Edit: Just a thought - are you using this on a Mac? Maybe that is the difference?


----------



## DarKen23

relopez said:


> I wanted to pipe in with my TB Isone experience. With the settings described below I recently listened to the Carlos Kleiber Vienna Philharmonic recording of Beethoven's 5th and 7th symphonies. I'm not very articulate in describing my impressions, but I will say that I could pinpoint the location of each instrument playing, and this location corresponded to where the instrument should be if you were sitting near the front of the audience, maybe 10 rows back. I've never heard imaging this precise. When I closed my eyes it was as if I were actually at the concert, in a way I've never heard with headphones before. At the same time the processing didn't seem to degrade the timbre of each instrument. They sounded very realistic. It was really a dramatic effect.
> 
> Anyway, that's my two cents.
> 
> ...


Nice! I can relate to your statement, and in my opinion the TB isone truly works wonders on the LCD2. I was able to get rid of the "wall of sound", allowing for a much larger presentation. Once I had it calibrated, TB isone was always being used regardless of what I was listening to.

Having the HD800, I find myself using the program only for 16/44 recordings. For everything higher, I prefer not to use it--as it alters the midrange more than I'd like.


----------



## staalf

lunatique said:


> (EDIT: Isone Pro has been upgraded to TB Isone, and the new link is here: http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/)
> 
> I just want to share my latest discovery with my fellow head-fiers.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have discovered Isone a few days ago. Used a lot of settings, but found a setting that I really like and I think it is a good starting point for newbies. It is the average Joe setting. It is found in the Presets Pane.
 I listened to Yellow 'One Second' and the truck in the first track is driving trough my head. Wow. If I still like it the coming weeks I will surely buy it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thank you for this fantastic tip Lunatique.


----------



## staalf

staalf said:


> I have discovered Isone a few days ago. Used a lot of settings, but found a setting that I really like and I think it is a good starting point for newbies. It is the average Joe setting. It is found in the Presets Pane.
> I listened to Yellow 'One Second' and the truck in the first track is driving trough my head. Wow. If I still like it the coming weeks I will surely buy it.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I thought I do myself a pleasure and I just bought Isone. It is the best buy for 15 euro ever! I can highly recommend it.


----------



## crisnee

I recommend it too.
  
 It may take some time to setup, but in the end it's definitely worth the few dollars and time.
  
 Don't be afraid to experiment with settings, even if they seem over the top or counter intuitive. You never know with this sort of thing. And remember it's not about bit perfect, it's about what sounds good to you.
  
 And lastly, when you get something that sounds ok, or pretty good, sit back, relax and really listen for awhile. Your ears need to get used to this new kind of imaging.
  
 Here's what unexpectedly worked for me.
  
 I'm using Audio Technica 900's, the open air version, listening to orchestral music.
  
 Tweeter = .100m    Speaker Angle = 25deg   HRTF = 100   Ear = 83.5   Head = 90
  
 Distance .34m    Early Refl = Lowest  T60 = .30s  Room Designer and CSC = On
  
 Everything else = mid point
  
 I really messed with the EQ, way off flat. +8db @ 36hz, -9db @ 5500hz, +1db @19khz
  
 The radical EQ setting just smoothed out the strings and gave it orchestral oomph. The AT's are known to have extended highs and weakish bass, so the EQ makes some sense, still...,
  
 Anyway, after I listened to this setup for awhile, I really felt like I wasn't listening to headphones. Like the music was away from me, out in front and sort of in the room, or in space. Definitely not in my head. But a key was to sit back and let myself relax into it, because until I did, I only thought the sound was pretty good, but it still sounded pretty much like headphone sound.
  
 -Chris
  
 Edit
 I'm using it with JRiver MC19.


----------



## Sweden

The people who complain about TB Isone messing up timbre and detail too much(I'm in this camp) should give the older Isone Pro a go. 
Not perfect by an stretch of the imagination but better than the new version in maintaining correct tonality.


----------



## Lunatique

sweden said:


> The people who complain about TB Isone messing up timbre and detail too much(I'm in this camp) should give the older Isone Pro a go.
> 
> Not perfect by an stretch of the imagination but better than the new version in maintaining correct tonality.



 


It's actually possible to set up TB Isone to sound just like Isone Pro. There's no "inherent unchangeable" sonic signature to TB Isone, as you can tweak it however you like. Originally, when TB Isone first came out, I thought I preferred the sound of Isone Pro too, but after a little experimentation, was able to reproduce the exact sound of my Isone Pro setting with TB Isone. It's really just a matter matching the parameters.


----------



## Chodi

The latest version of TBIsone 3.01 is an improvement in transparency and tonal accuracy. I think I have been through every version and this latest is the best. I use it every day with JRiver 19. With TBIsone you can achieve much less tonal coloration than you will find using speakers in a room. What sounds natural to you is a very personal thing. TBIsone let's you adjust away to your hearts desire to achieve what sounds natural to your ears. No small feat with headphones. Of course the results are limited to the rest of the equipment in your chain.


----------



## crisnee

chodi said:


> The latest version of TBIsone 3.01 is an improvement in transparency and tonal accuracy. I think I have been through every version and this latest is the best. I use it every day with JRiver 19. With TBIsone you can achieve much less tonal coloration than you will find using speakers in a room. What sounds natural to you is a very personal thing. TBIsone let's you adjust away to your hearts desire to achieve what sounds natural to your ears. No small feat with headphones. Of course the results are limited to the rest of the equipment in your chain.


 
 I agree, it sounds great when setup well.
  
 Have you found a way in JRiver 19 to get it to show what settings are playing. IOW, if you save something like "Good Soundstage" and then load it, does it tell you somewhere that it's being used?
  
 -Chris


----------



## kalston

I'm not sure if the new 3.0.1 is actually "better sounding" but it certainly isn't worse and has a much better UI allowing for easier and more accurate tuning.


----------



## Chodi

crisnee said:


> I agree, it sounds great when setup well.
> 
> Have you found a way in JRiver 19 to get it to show what settings are playing. IOW, if you save something like "Good Soundstage" and then load it, does it tell you somewhere that it's being used?
> 
> -Chris


 
 Just click on DSP Studio and then click on Isone it will come up with all your current settings.


----------



## crisnee

chodi said:


> Just click on DSP Studio and then click on Isone it will come up with all your current settings.


 
 I'm not sure what you mean by "all your current settings." What I want it to display is the name of the setting I'm using. If I load "sound stage" I want it to tell me that I'm using the sound stage settings when I'm playing music. But nowhere that I can see does it tell me which preset it is using at any given time.
  
 Chris


----------



## Chodi

crisnee said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "all your current settings." What I want it to display is the name of the setting I'm using. If I load "sound stage" I want it to tell me that I'm using the sound stage settings when I'm playing music. But nowhere that I can see does it tell me which preset it is using at any given time.
> 
> Chris


 
 There is a program window at the top which is supposed to display the current preset. I have recently switched to version 3.01 and for the first time with Isone I find that the window does not correctly display the preset if it is one I create and save. I am using it with J River 19. If you choose from the pre-programmed presets it displays correctly. If I choose a preset I created it does not. I wrote to the author and he quickly replied that it is a function of the host (in this case J River19). I have yet to find the solution but I am planning to look into this further. It does change the settings to my custom preset but does not display the name I gave to it. Perhaps this is the same problem you are experiencing? This problem does not really interfere with the functionality of the program. it is just annoying. I also find if I change to one of my presets while the program is in a standard preset it changes that standard preset until I close and restart the system. Strange stuff but the program sounds so good I can live with it.


----------



## crisnee

chodi said:


> There is a program window at the top which is supposed to display the current preset. I have recently switched to version 3.01 and for the first time with Isone I find that the window does not correctly display the preset if it is one I create and save. I am using it with J River 19. If you choose from the pre-programmed presets it displays correctly. If I choose a preset I created it does not. I wrote to the author and he quickly replied that it is a function of the host (in this case J River19). I have yet to find the solution but I am planning to look into this further. It does change the settings to my custom preset but does not display the name I gave to it. Perhaps this is the same problem you are experiencing? This problem does not really interfere with the functionality of the program. it is just annoying. I also find if I change to one of my presets while the program is in a standard preset it changes that standard preset until I close and restart the system. Strange stuff but the program sounds so good I can live with it.


 
 Yes, that's the problem I'm having too. And I wrote to the author too and he replied in the same way to me. And as to changing the standard presets, I had to uninstall and reinstall to set the presets back to default values. It is annoying but as you said, it is a nice program. By the way, in which version did the current preset display?
  
 Anyway, if you find a solution please let me/us here know and I'll do the same.
  
 -Chris


----------



## Chodi

crisnee said:


> Yes, that's the problem I'm having too. And I wrote to the author too and he replied in the same way to me. And as to changing the standard presets, I had to uninstall and reinstall to set the presets back to default values. It is annoying but as you said, it is a nice program. By the way, in which version did the current preset display?
> 
> Anyway, if you find a solution please let me/us here know and I'll do the same.
> 
> -Chris


 
 Until recently I was mostly using Foobar which displays the presets correctly using George Youngs wrapper. It save the presets in easy to identify docs of just a few bytes. After using google and looking through the J River forum I find that this is a known problem with J River and any vst based dsp, The author of J River comments that they are aware of this activity and they have no intention of trying to fix it. They suggest that you can use the J River built in presets instead? The J River comment suggests that the program does not really save the preset to a doc. It just saves it to cache. If you google around you will find posts from others with vst plugins and the same concerns. It seems J River has no intention of modifying their program to store this information properly. Still, the Isone program is functional. If it bothers me enough I may resort back to Foobar. I never really confirmed to my satisfaction that J River sounds better (although I get that impression perhaps placebo).


----------



## Chodi

When I got the message from Jeroen, the designer of Isone, he said he had little experience with J River. A little over an hour ago I decided to go back to Foobar using the new 3.01 Isone for the first time. Wow!! Hands down it is obvious that Jeroen used Foobar to tune his new version of Isone. The presets work as they should but much more important the sound is glorious. When I was using an old version of Isone with Foobar I felt that J River had a slight edge so I switched over to J River completely. Now with this new 3.01 version Foobar is clearly better. Try it for yourself and I bet you agree. I will be using J River only for Movies and video from now on (I like the surround sound in J River for movies with headphones).


----------



## DarKen23

chodi said:


> When I got the message from Jeroen, the designer of Isone, he said he had little experience with J River. A little over an hour ago I decided to go back to Foobar using the new 3.01 Isone for the first time. Wow!! Hands down it is obvious that Jeroen used Foobar to tune his new version of Isone. The presets work as they should but much more important the sound is glorious. When I was using an old version of Isone with Foobar I felt that J River had a slight edge so I switched over to J River completely. Now with this new 3.01 version Foobar is clearly better. Try it for yourself and I bet you agree. I will be using J River only for Movies and video from now on (I like the surround sound in J River for movies with headphones).


 
 Funny, when I actually first tried TB_Isone, it was with Foobar, at the time I also thought that the sound was amazing. Maybe ill try foobar again using the newest version of TB_Isone.


----------



## crisnee

chodi said:


> When I got the message from Jeroen, the designer of Isone, he said he had little experience with J River. A little over an hour ago I decided to go back to Foobar using the new 3.01 Isone for the first time. Wow!! Hands down it is obvious that Jeroen used Foobar to tune his new version of Isone. The presets work as they should but much more important the sound is glorious. When I was using an old version of Isone with Foobar I felt that J River had a slight edge so I switched over to J River completely. Now with this new 3.01 version Foobar is clearly better. Try it for yourself and I bet you agree. I will be using J River only for Movies and video from now on (I like the surround sound in J River for movies with headphones).


 
 I will try it, thanks. And JRiver is annoying that way (re your other post); they act like they're better than everyone else, and they don't like anyone to hint that something they have isn't as good as Tb-Isone for instance. 
  
 Chris


----------



## crisnee

Hi Chodi, sorry to bother you but....
 I can't figure out how to install TB_Isone into Foobar2000. It seems like it should be simple, but it doesn't show up as a choice under components when I choose install, and I tried copying the .dll into the Foobar components folder but that didn't work either, so I've run out of ideas. Do you have any thoughts?
  
 I downloaded the latest stable version 1.2.9, and am working with that.
  
 Chris


----------



## Chodi

crisnee said:


> Hi Chodi, sorry to bother you but....
> I can't figure out how to install TB_Isone into Foobar2000. It seems like it should be simple, but it doesn't show up as a choice under components when I choose install, and I tried copying the .dll into the Foobar components folder but that didn't work either, so I've run out of ideas. Do you have any thoughts?
> 
> I downloaded the latest stable version 1.2.9, and am working with that.


 
 Chris, here is your solution:
  
http://www.yohng.com/software/foobarvst.html
  
 Follow the instructions it's easy. Then you choose George Yohngs wrapper in foobar components. A vst icon will appear in your task bar every time you load Foobar. Just set that to select/point to the location of your Isone program and you're done. You control Isone from the vst Icon to bring it up whenever you want.


----------



## kalston

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=84947 I prefer this simple plugin to use VSTs in foobar. No icon in the taskbar, you just do everything from foobar's preferences window.


----------



## Chodi

kalston said:


> http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=84947 I prefer this simple plugin to use VSTs in foobar. No icon in the taskbar, you just do everything from foobar's preferences window.


 
 I was going to suggest that one also but some people have reported problems with it dropping out. I never tried it myself. It may work great now, but you are right, there are two vst wrappers that work with foobar.


----------



## kalston

I _mostly_ use JRIver MC 18 but I never had any issues with it on foobar.


----------



## crisnee

Hey, thanks a lot guys. I got TB_Isone working with Foobar, with your help. I haven't compared the sound with JRiver yet, but will report back if I notice any significant difference.
  
 -Chris


----------



## brunk

crisnee said:


> Hey, thanks a lot guys. I got TB_Isone working with Foobar, with your help. I haven't compared the sound with JRiver yet, but will report back if I notice any significant difference.
> 
> -Chris


 
 Please do report back, I am curious if there really is a significant change using foobar for TB Isone vs JRMC. Thanks.


----------



## crisnee

Ok, I did one relatively short test of JRMC vs. Foobar re TB_Isone. I also used EasyQ in both (a great little PEQ) and Audio Technica AD900s as phones. The music was piano, bass and drums with lots of well recorded cymbals.
  
 I used only the "Average Joe" setting in TB_Isone, and tried to match up the volume as well as I could by ear.
  
 I switched TB in and out a bit and noticed that the sound of the cymbals was affected quite a bit and in the same way in both Foobar and JRMC. I changed the tweeter and width setting slightly to see if that would affect the highs, if it did, it did so very subtly.
  
 As to a difference between JRMC and Foobar in this rough and imprecise test; no significant difference (if any) that I could detect. Nor did I have one of those feelings that one sounded better than the other.
  
 If I find the desire to do a more in depth test anytime soon, I'll report back.
  
 -Chris


----------



## DarKen23

I'm currently running JRMC19 using "Foobar_dsd_ASIO" as the playback. Don't know if that helps anyone or if it has anything to do with TB_Isone at all, just thought I'd throw it out there.


----------



## Chodi

crisnee said:


> Ok, I did one relatively short test of JRMC vs. Foobar re TB_Isone. I also used EasyQ in both (a great little PEQ) and Audio Technica AD900s as phones. The music was piano, bass and drums with lots of well recorded cymbals.
> 
> I used only the "Average Joe" setting in TB_Isone, and tried to match up the volume as well as I could by ear.
> 
> ...


 
 In my experience using any eq dsp along with TB Isone really messes up Isone. I would be interested in your impression without adding EasyQ (I am familiar with that dsp).


----------



## crisnee

chodi said:


> In my experience using any eq dsp along with TB Isone really messes up Isone. I would be interested in your impression without adding EasyQ (I am familiar with that dsp).


 
 I was planning to do that (and have in the past but didn't do it carefully enough so didn't come to any real conclusions). I've also switched the order, not much difference there. 
  
 In the mean time, how did it mess up Isone in your system? IOW, what sonic problems did it create?
  
 -Chris


----------



## Chodi

crisnee said:


> I was planning to do that (and have in the past but didn't do it carefully enough so didn't come to any real conclusions). I've also switched the order, not much difference there.
> 
> In the mean time, how did it mess up Isone in your system? IOW, what sonic problems did it create?
> 
> -Chris


 
 In my experience trying exactly the same thing I found that it destroyed the tonal accuracy and compressed the sound causing what us old folks remember as the DBX expander effect where various tonal values are compressed or expanded unnaturally. It was, in my opinion just plain bad. It is possible to get some eq effect from Isone by moving the frequency curve. I frankly have not felt the need to add any eq. If you are experiencing some unpleasant or unnatural eq with Isone you probably have the Isone controls too far out of adjustment. Try using the natural crossfeed preset with or without CSC engaged to see if things sound natural. In that position it should clearly maintain the sound signature of your headphones and amp. If that does sound as it should then you can begin tuning the rest (HRTF). Using the room setting will add eq, it is supposed to do that to simulate various room acoustics. The room acoustics can be very useful in creating a natural sound depending on your source material. That is the value of being able to create your own presets.


----------



## crisnee

chodi said:


> In my experience trying exactly the same thing I found that it destroyed the tonal accuracy and compressed the sound causing what us old folks remember as the DBX expander effect where various tonal values are compressed or expanded unnaturally. It was, in my opinion just plain bad. It is possible to get some eq effect from Isone by moving the frequency curve. I frankly have not felt the need to add any eq. If you are experiencing some unpleasant or unnatural eq with Isone you probably have the Isone controls too far out of adjustment. Try using the natural crossfeed preset with or without CSC engaged to see if things sound natural. In that position it should clearly maintain the sound signature of your headphones and amp. If that does sound as it should then you can begin tuning the rest (HRTF). Using the room setting will add eq, it is supposed to do that to simulate various room acoustics. The room acoustics can be very useful in creating a natural sound depending on your source material. That is the value of being able to create your own presets.


 
 Actually, I was using eq with the AD900s before ever using TB_Isone, because the phones have a too prominent high frequency response for me, particularly for classical music. So I just naturally kept it inline when I added TB. Anyway, I'll definitely take a closer listen to see what the differences are without it.
  
 Having said that, I thought someone very early in this thread highly recommended using an EQ with TB_Isone, and even recommended certain settings for some of his phones, but I could be completely misremembering or confusing this with another thread.
  
 -Chris


----------



## Chodi

crisnee said:


> Actually, I was using eq with the AD900s before ever using TB_Isone, because the phones have a too prominent high frequency response for me, particularly for classical music. So I just naturally kept it inline when I added TB. Anyway, I'll definitely take a closer listen to see what the differences are without it.
> 
> Having said that, I thought someone very early in this thread highly recommended using an EQ with TB_Isone, and even recommended certain settings for some of his phones, but I could be completely misremembering or confusing this with another thread.
> 
> -Chris


 
 What sounds good or right to you is a very personal thing. Isone cannot compensate for the equipment in your chain. I use T1's now, but I have been through a lot of headphones and I would agree with you that selecting a headphone that sounds good to you is a critical starting point. Isone is not magic. If you put together a system that you really like then Isone can bring that final level of realism. It sure works for me.


----------



## crisnee

chodi said:


> What sounds good or right to you is a very personal thing. Isone cannot compensate for the equipment in your chain. I use T1's now, but I have been through a lot of headphones and I would agree with you that selecting a headphone that sounds good to you is a critical starting point. Isone is not magic. If you put together a system that you really like then Isone can bring that final level of realism. It sure works for me.


 
 Agreed about it being a personal thing. However, I don't want any program to change the general characteristic of my system (unless of course I don't like my system). And TB_Isone doesn't do that if used correctly--so that's good.
  
 As to using an EQ with it. I messed around with and without EasyQ for quite a while and came to some conclusions. I don't think using EasyQ is inherently a bad thing, but I think you have to be careful with it, particularly when it comes to the high frequencies. Why? Because, at least in the settings I used, TB seems to attenuate the highs, or at least give that impression. IOW my AD900s sounded less balanced toward the highs than without TB in line.
  
 On the other hand I also use modded Fostex phones, and they sounded a bit boomy and bass heavy with TB in line and using EasyQ to attenuate the bass helped restore their signature sound while adding the positive effects of TB.
  
 Chris


----------



## crisnee

Double Post


----------



## crisnee

Double Post


----------



## fmzip

Does anyone have a link as to where to download the old Isone Pro?


----------



## DarKen23

fmzip said:


> Does anyone have a link as to where to download the old Isone Pro?


There isn't a reason you should use the old and inferior version over the newest one. Just use the most recent one.


----------



## Chodi

fmzip said:


> Does anyone have a link as to where to download the old Isone Pro?


 
  
 PM Sent
  


darken23 said:


> There isn't a reason you should use the old and inferior version over the newest one. Just use the most recent one.


 
 I agree completely.


----------



## fmzip

chodi said:


> PM Sent
> 
> I agree completely.


 
 Guys,
  
 Thanks for your point of views. I'd like to simply hear for myself if one sounds better than the other as other posters have stated in this thread that the prior one was superior.
  
 I understand to each their own, I'd like to decide for myself.
  
 I've already been provided with a link in a PM


----------



## mkeroppi

I'm trying to create the room as defined by ITU 1116-1 (http://www.spsc.tugraz.at/sites/default/files/PA_Sereinig_A_Standardized_Listening_Room.pdf)
 .
  
 So far I have figured out the following values:
  
 distance: 2m
 size: 100% (what is this in room volume?)
 ER: 63% (=10db attenuation?)
 diffusion: 100% (not in standard?)
 T60: 0.25s (seems a little low to me using the reference room of 100m^3)
 HRTF strength: 50% (1.2m=ear height when sitting down, so basically ear height)
  
 ear/head size: personal (see manual on calibration)
  
 Correct/comments? T60 seems low to me as stated...
  
 Forgot about the speaker settings:
 flat EQ (I use the Etymotic ER-4B earphones)
 tweeter size: 2cm (standard?)
 speaker angle: 30deg
  
 another thought: 0.25s seems the threshold for not changing the acoustic character of the sound (clarity), which makes sense for the standard...does it make sense to simulate a reference studio room for music production?
  
 update: this setting + a smile EQ sounds right (the Hi-fi speaker preset)...so seems to be on the right track...


----------



## Chodi

mkeroppi said:


> I'm trying to create the room as defined by ITU 1116-1 (http://www.spsc.tugraz.at/sites/default/files/PA_Sereinig_A_Standardized_Listening_Room.pdf)
> .
> 
> So far I have figured out the following values:
> ...


 
 Frankly I think it's all about what sounds good to you. Trying to follow the guide you posted in using Isone would drive me nuts. I have owned most versions of Isone including the latest and I find that their guide is only useful as a starting point for beginners. There is painfully little explanation as to what each of these controls actually do and how they interact with each other. I have found some very good settings that work for me after having extensive experience with the program. In the end it's all about getting things so that they sound natural to me. There is no one right setting for everyone. I think it also has a lot to do with how the program interacts with your specific system and headphones. I find if I change headphones I need to change settings to get what I want. No problem, I save different settings for different applications so I am ready to go with one click. I love Isone and could not live without it for headphones.


----------



## DarKen23

chodi said:


> mkeroppi said:
> 
> 
> > I'm trying to create the room as defined by ITU 1116-1 (http://www.spsc.tugraz.at/sites/default/files/PA_Sereinig_A_Standardized_Listening_Room.pdf)
> ...


+1, I absolutely agree. Isone takes time, attempting to achieve the 'right' sound in a matter of 1-2hrs would only cause frustration. I found myself making small adjustments after long periods of listening, after 1-2 weeks. Eventually you'll achieve your ideal sound.

While everyone has their preference in terms of sonic character, sharing your own setting as well as applying other users setting also help me a lot in achieving what I wanted.


----------



## mkeroppi

darken23 said:


> +1, I absolutely agree. Isone takes time, attempting to achieve the 'right' sound in a matter of 1-2hrs would only cause frustration. I found myself making small adjustments after long periods of listening, after 1-2 weeks. Eventually you'll achieve your ideal sound.
> 
> While everyone has their preference in terms of sonic character, sharing your own setting as well as applying other users setting also help me a lot in achieving what I wanted.


 

 What I'm trying to do is simulating the reference room as defined by 1116-1. I don't know if anybody else has try to do that here.


----------



## theoctavist

the isone setup guide is to the point, gets the job done. dont really understand what else one needs?
  
 posting others settings? dont see the point.  we all have different head sizes/shapes/headphones.  even using others setup as a starting point. it makes no sense.
  
  
 start with all values at zero and calibrate to your specific acoustics, cans, etc.
  
  
  
 i use it in jriver.    wont use headphones without it now.
  
  
 (unless it is a recording made for cans)


----------



## brunk

theoctavist said:


> *i use it in jriver.    wont use headphones without it now.*
> 
> 
> (unless it is a recording made for cans)


 
 LCD-2 owner by chance? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just kidding, TB Isone is great for a lot of cans after proper setup.


----------



## DarKen23

theoctavist said:


> the isone setup guide is to the point, gets the job done. dont really understand what else one needs?
> 
> posting others settings? dont see the point.  we all have different head sizes/shapes/headphones.  even using others setup as a starting point. it makes no sense.
> 
> ...


Maybe because it could possibly aid others who have no idea how it is suppose to sound or what sort of effect it was intended for, or if they're even doing proper adjustments. I didn't realize it was a crime to share and compare with another user's setting that could yield a 'that setting sounds better than my current' effect?

Your post is far more 'pointless' tbh.


----------



## Chodi

darken23 said:


> Maybe because it could possibly aid others who have no idea how it is suppose to sound or what sort of effect it was intended for, or if they're even doing proper adjustments. I didn't realize it was a crime to share and compare with another user's setting that could yield a 'that setting sounds better than my current' effect?
> 
> Your post is far more 'pointless' tbh.


 
 I agree that Isone is not easy to set up and takes a lot of experimenting with your own ears and your own equipment. There are a lot of controls and it can easily get confusing. I've read several posts about people trying to use an equalizer with Isone. I wonder if they even realize that Isone contains an equalizer with some presets included to emulate speaker response. You can easily modify those presets and go with a flat response or adjust it to your ears and your system until you get what you want. There is even a graphic display of the speaker response simulation. I wonder how many people using Isone get that? A lot has been written about flat frequency response but the truth is no speaker in the real world plays a flat response (it would probably be very boring). That's what makes the unique character of each speaker setup. Then there is always the room interaction to consider when using speakers. Isone does a fine job of letting you emulate that with simulated room acoustics (you can choose not to use that feature).


----------



## crisnee

What's particularly difficult or perhaps tedious about setting up Isone is that there are so many variables.
  
 Having a lot of variables has its advantages and disadvantages. The advantages are obvious but the disadvantages maybe less so. For instance you may set A to its optimum (for you) without knowing it because you've set B to something that counters the effects of A. So you go back to A thinking its the problem and set it to a less good value because it sounds better, but not great with B set the way it is. So you go on to C to make it all great. But, without changing back A you can't get to your optimum, but of course you can't know that.
  
 So, in short, I think it's good to have folks post settings that work well for them. Hey, they might work well for others, and at least they give others the chance to see what kind of settings work for some. One might even be able to spot commonalities, if enough folks post their settings.
  
 Besides reading other folks input, it takes patience and luck to set up Isone ideally (and its hard to know when you've reached "_ideally_"). Probably a good way (if you have the patience, which I'm pretty short on) is to save a bunch of groups of settings that sound pretty good and then try to refine them saving all refined versions along the way.
  
 Chris


----------



## Chodi

crisnee said:


> What's particularly difficult or perhaps tedious about setting up Isone is that there are so many variables.
> 
> Having a lot of variables has its advantages and disadvantages. The advantages are obvious but the disadvantages maybe less so. For instance you may set A to its optimum (for you) without knowing it because you've set B to something that counters the effects of A. So you go back to A thinking its the problem and set it to a less good value because it sounds better, but not great with B set the way it is. So you go on to C to make it all great. But, without changing back A you can't get to your optimum, but of course you can't know that.
> 
> ...


 
 It depends on your objective with Isone. You can start with just crossfeed (there are 3 presets for this) and then when you get used to what that does you can add HRTF setting which are by far the most difficult to get right. Keep the room designer off at this stage. The objective of the HRTF settings is to get the sounds positioned correctly in the soundfield as it is projected in front of you. That is why they suggest looking at an area across the room (like two speakers) so that your brain can make sense of what you are hearing. They have presets for big head/large ears, large ears/small head, average Joe,  etc. and those are helpful as a starting point. The object is to be able to best pinpoint instruments or voices in the stage as to position and tone. You are trying to get optimum position without altering the tone. After you get that to a believable setting, you can move on to trying the room settings to add realistic room acoustics. Here is where it gets tricky. There are a second set of presets for frequency response but only by way of a few examples. I found that shaping the frequency response to my headphones and my front end really locked in the entire sound stage to something totally 3D with every voice and instrument hanging in space in front of me exactly as they should be (wonderfully layered as well). The entire thing is a process and it took me months of tweeking until I felt I had completely maximized Isone for my system and my head. The end results are stunning. I think some people who have knocked Isone never got the part about the shaping of the frequency response. If you miss that step you will never get the full benefit. Of course, all of this is still limited by the overall quality of your headphones and other equipment but you can sure maximize what you have with Isone.


----------



## chinesekiwi

I don't post in here often anymore, but really, you *have* to have a basic understanding of psychoacoustics to use this software.
 That's the truth. Not to mention good test tracks for imaging.
  
 I use a third party EQ with Isone because the third party EQ gives me more control.
 I will happily state that a good number don't know basic psychoacoustics in here thus don't know what the hell they're doing settings wise.
 Isone is a fantastic piece of software if you know how to use it properly.
  
 What Isone does not fix is the soundstage depth of the headphones.
  
 Doesn't matter really (due to different HRTF), but here are my settings:
  

  
 No, it's not realistic because of zero early reflection (ER) and thus no need for diffusion but it's the ideal.
 87.5% is a good starting point tbh and adjust from there. As you increase the distance, you must really increase the room size.
 A great underrated test track for imaging is actually Westlife's 'I Don't Wanna Fight', particularly the melodied chorus.
 The only issue I have with the diffusion setting is it doesn't tell you what frequencies it affects.
 5.59 cm tweeter size that's what a lot of the top studio monitors tweeter sizes are.
  
 I have beyerdynamic T70's EQ'ed to the diffuse field equalisation line (because beyerdynamic screwed up badly in it, see 4000Hz peak when it should be 5000Hz peak) + O2 amp + O2 DAC.
  
 Do be aware of course of other things such as the positioning of the headphone on your head affecting the frequency response, particularly in the bass frequencies. See the Innerfidelity graphs for evidence of this.


----------



## Chodi

chinesekiwi said:


> I don't post in here often anymore, but really, you *have* to have a basic understanding of psychoacoustics to use this software.
> That's the truth. Not to mention good test tracks for imaging.
> 
> I use a third party EQ with Isone because the third party EQ gives me more control.
> ...


 
 You have the speaker level set at 0db, Isn't that causing Isone to clip? Their default setting is -8db and I usually have mine set at -5db or I will see Isone go into clipping on many recordings. At -5 it never clips. Just curious about your setting.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Can someone tell me if this pug in works with Aurdivana or amarra?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## chinesekiwi

chodi said:


> You have the speaker level set at 0db, Isn't that causing Isone to clip? Their default setting is -8db and I usually have mine set at -5db or I will see Isone go into clipping on many recordings. At -5 it never clips. Just curious about your setting.


 
  
 I have -7.9 dB preamp in my Equalizer APO settings.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I use this plug-in with Aurdivana plus.  I must say- this plug-in is a game changer.  It is amazing how an out of head experience to this degree is possible with headphones.   I often find that headphones that stress soundstage do so at the cost of tonal balance.   Now- I can focus on the headphones that get the tone correct and I can create a feeling of real speakers in a room with this program.   It is extremely realistic.
  
 This may be ametureish but I recommend trying the presets.  Once you find the preset you like best- make small adjustments here and there until you fine tune it.


----------



## Lunatique

rsbrsvp said:


> This may be ametureish but I recommend trying the presets.  Once you find the preset you like best- make small adjustments here and there until you fine tune it.


 
 I think it's perfectly fine to go through the presets, and if there's one that happens to match your physiology, then no need to spend the extra time tweaking.  Another good thing about going through the presets, is you get acquainted to the range of possibilities the software is capable of, and like you said, once you home in on a preference, the minor additional tweaking you need to do would be fairly quick.


----------



## Xida

Is it suggested that I produce with this in addition to whatever I currently have?


----------



## Chodi

Just a heads up for Isone fans. I finally found a vst eq that works with foobar and  with Isone and does not degrade the sound in any way.  In fact, I was able to easily make small adjustments that really improved things in my system. This also has a great user interface and its FREE. Be careful it was designed for professional mastering so there are settings that you may want to just ignore   ( unless you are a recording engineer). Here is the link to CS12M EQ:
  
 http://www.terrywest.nl/equalizers.html
  
 You will note he has other equalizers available but I did not try them. The CS12M just goes into your vst folder and then install it in foobar. Works like a champ. I have tried several other equalizers but never got satisfactory results. This one really works without degrading the sound in any way as far as I can tell.


----------



## Priidik

Has anyone listened pink noise through TB Isone on/off ? 
  
 It does change tonal balance significantly regardless of the near infinite setup options available, to my ears, through my setup(s). 
  
 And I have concluded that this change in tonal balance or frequency response is independent of listening material. I' am not saying it shouldn't change freq resp, but it appears to be too much for me most of the time.
  
 My recent best setup.


----------



## Chodi

priidik said:


> Has anyone listened pink noise through TB Isone on/off ?
> 
> It does change tonal balance significantly regardless of the near infinite setup options available, to my ears, through my setup(s).
> 
> ...


 
 Under Preset you have the choice of flat response. I have found that the CSC setting does change the tonal balance and not to my liking (so I do not use it). I use the eq vst plugin I listed just before your post to restore the tonal balance to a very natural sound for my system and headphones. I was using a different eq before with less desirable results. Adjusting the tweeter size below 1cm or above 3cm  would certainly cause unnatural results. I actually do not know how you got that setting at 0.010m? I have what I believe is the latest version of Isone and I cannot duplicate what I see as your tweeter setting. If you were to use the Room settings that also would certainly change the tonal balance (I see that you are not using that). Setting the distance beyond 1m will start to effect the tonal balance some. I find that up to 1m it has little to no effect on the overall tonal balance. Any dsp intended to simulate speakers (out of head experience) is going to add some flavor of it's own. You can easily use a separate eq to compensate for that. At least that has been my experience.
  
 I should have mentioned that I also find I require different settings for different headphones. The HD800 is so holographic in itself that I only require minimal crossfeed setting to get great results. Using my T1's I use the HRTF control to dial in similar soundstage effect to what I get with my HD800 (3D soundstage).


----------



## Priidik

I should have added that this setup i got is a result of scoping pink noise with freq-domain analyzer with Isone enabled and adjusting frequency curve to best fit original pink noise. (i know it doesn't say so in the manual 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  
  
 The linear result:
  
  
 Manual's suggestion to me:

  
 Same as above, but with CSC enabled:

  
 Manual's suggested setup + CSC to me:

  
 The EQ-band on ~2.4kHz  is the only way i could get rid of this ugly peak at this frequency while at the most linear setup i got. And CSC enabled seemed to be a must in this regard aswell.
  
 I can't say that i hear these drop outs or peaks while listening to my high-end studio monitors in a well treated room, and  i don't mean dead room. (without any cross-feed ofcourse)
 I think the frequency response get to much impact with Isone, whether or not is it related directly to phase alterations through out stereo material.
 That is why i did this 'linearizing' with the freq analyzer. 
  
 I did the tweaking without listening, at first. And listening confirmed that this was the best setup i had heared thus far. 
  
 All this complaining is just over a tiny proportion of my music, for which i can turn of Isone. And everything else is just better by a mile.
  
 *About the tweeter size: I figured that the smaller the radiator the more even spherical wavefront it would emit. I guess there can be more variables in it than that, but i couldn't hear any significant differences in changing it anyways.
  
 Maybe my findings are useful to someone else aswell.


----------



## Lunatique

priidik said:


> I should have added that this setup i got is a result of scoping pink noise with freq-domain analyzer with Isone enabled and adjusting frequency curve to best fit original pink noise. (i know it doesn't say so in the manual
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It's generally a bad idea to alter the frequency response in order to "flatten" the changes in frequency applied by Isone. The reason is very simple: In order to simulate realistic space with speakers playing in front of you, Isone HAS TO also recreate the natural changes to frequency response caused by HRTF (Head Related Transfer Function). If you try and negate the effects of HRTF, then you might as well not use the plugin at all and just use a simple crossfeed plugin instead.


----------



## Priidik

I guess my ears are odd.
 Suggested settings produce unnatural results to me. 
 Maybe its the phones, HD800-s are more open than some others. 
    Anyways i'm still using it with the real stereo tracks with my 'linearized' settings and i'm feeling it is closest to speaker sound in treated control room.


----------



## Chodi

priidik said:


> I guess my ears are odd.
> Suggested settings produce unnatural results to me.
> Maybe its the phones, HD800-s are more open than some others.
> Anyways i'm still using it with the real stereo tracks with my 'linearized' settings and i'm feeling it is closest to speaker sound in treated control room.


 
 I use Isone but I never use Isone with my HD800. I use Isone with my other headphones. The HD800 image so well there is no need to insert Isone in the mix. I have tried Isone with my HD800 just to see what would happen and like you, I got some really bad results. Works great with my other headphones though.


----------



## Priidik

chodi said:


> I use Isone but I never use Isone with my HD800. I use Isone with my other headphones. The HD800 image so well there is no need to insert Isone in the mix. I have tried Isone with my HD800 just to see what would happen and like you, I got some really bad results. Works great with my other headphones though.


 
 That makes somewhat sense, but in theory real stereo (meant for speakers) should feel really awkward through pure unmodified headphone setup.
  
 Of all the headphones i have tried HD800 is clearly the closest to produce ideal headphone sound, to me it makes sense that many rock albums sound weird through HD800, as these often are real stereo (in simplified words drum beating in one ear and guitar in the other).
 In comparison my other headphones sound like they have a mediocre cross-feed built in.
  
 I have tried my other phones with Isone as well, but only with HD800  i get  the occasional sense of hearing  live orchestra or quality speaker setup. Without Isone it doesn't feel quite that realistic.


----------



## Chodi

priidik said:


> That makes somewhat sense, but in theory real stereo (meant for speakers) should feel really awkward through pure unmodified headphone setup.
> 
> Of all the headphones i have tried HD800 is clearly the closest to produce ideal headphone sound, to me it makes sense that many rock albums sound weird through HD800, as these often are real stereo (in simplified words drum beating in one ear and guitar in the other).
> In comparison my other headphones sound like they have a mediocre cross-feed built in.
> ...


 
 If I read your information correctly, you are using your Yulong DA8 dac as your headphone amp. I would suggest that it is a wonderful dac but the amp section is not up to what the HD800 can really produce. When your budget permits you may want to explore a separate amp for that setup and then see what you think.


----------



## Priidik

Initially i hoped i could beat 2 flies with one bat with that DA8, but i guess you are right, i really shouldn't post here before i have got a nice amp for the cans 
 I am eyeing that new Questyle CMR800 or Auralic Taurus MK2. Can't jet decide which to get. 
 Not looking to mess around with tubes.


----------



## Chodi

priidik said:


> Initially i hoped i could beat 2 flies with one bat with that DA8, but i guess you are right, i really shouldn't post here before i have got a nice amp for the cans
> I am eyeing that new Questyle CMR800 or Auralic Taurus MK2. Can't jet decide which to get.
> Not looking to mess around with tubes.


 
 I just got the Taurus 2 days ago. I can report that it is excellent with my HD800 but more importantly it works just as well with most other headphones. It gives you the option of balanced or se input and output which the cma800r does not. The Questyle is reported to be great with the HD800 but I have read reports that it is not so great with other headphones. Some owners on the forum reported to me that they were not happy with the performance of other headphones. I inquired specifically about T1's as I own them and was told not a good match. I can tell you that it is very good with the Taurus.


----------



## Priidik

chodi said:


> I just got the Taurus 2 days ago. I can report that it is excellent with my HD800 but more importantly it works just as well with most other headphones. It gives you the option of balanced or se input and output which the cma800r does not. The Questyle is reported to be great with the HD800 but I have read reports that it is not so great with other headphones. Some owners on the forum reported to me that they were not happy with the performance of other headphones. I inquired specifically about T1's as I own them and was told not a good match. I can tell you that it is very good with the Taurus.


 
 The problem in my are is that i can get two Questyle amps in one Taurus price range.
 And i have read that even one CMA800 is better than Taurus for HD800-s. I have no near future plans to buy more headphones, when i do it will probably be e-stats.
 No doubt a single Taurus is better with planars than a single CMA800, and that it has pre-amp, since a decent value even at 1800€. I am still waiting for a comparative review with 2 x CMA800 monoblocks vs Taurus MK2, as for me these compare price wise.
  
 Back to topic: i still think my setup with Isone works best with HD800 and not so much with other phones, other phones seem not to benefit from Isone-s full capability.
 Various settings in Isone have greater effect with HD800, and in direct comparison almost negligible with some in-ears like TDK IE800, which imo have otherwise very good soundstage for iem-s.
 I dislike my K701 too much these days i only used them a few times with Isone.


----------



## Priidik

lunatique said:


> It's generally a bad idea to alter the frequency response in order to "flatten" the changes in frequency applied by Isone. The reason is very simple: In order to simulate realistic space with speakers playing in front of you, Isone HAS TO also recreate the natural changes to frequency response caused by HRTF (Head Related Transfer Function). If you try and negate the effects of HRTF, then you might as well not use the plugin at all and just use a simple crossfeed plugin instead.


 
 Truly when HRTF set to zero, it becomes a straight forward cross-feed,
 and it is easily as good or better than competitors similar plugins at their game. 
  
 I have to conclude that the HRTF function does not work for me at this time,
 at least i can use some of Isone goodness.


----------



## Sweden

I have found "Rhythm Is A Dancer" to be the perfect song when calibrating Isone. Not kidding.


----------



## Chodi

priidik said:


> The problem in my are is that i can get two Questyle amps in one Taurus price range.
> And i have read that even one CMA800 is better than Taurus for HD800-s. I have no near future plans to buy more headphones, when i do it will probably be e-stats.
> No doubt a single Taurus is better with planars than a single CMA800, and that it has pre-amp, since a decent value even at 1800€. I am still waiting for a comparative review with 2 x CMA800 monoblocks vs Taurus MK2, as for me these compare price wise.
> 
> ...


 
 If you can really get two cma800r for the price of one Taurus and you use the HD800 exclusively then go for it. I am not sure I understand the pricing issue since the 2 cma800r  list price at about $3000 and the Taurus is about $1800. Even allowing for the import charges in your country hard to see how they could be close in price. The Taurus is also wonderful with the HD800 as well as other headphones. Now back to the Isone thread before we get slapped for being off topic.


----------



## FangJoker

Is there a list of software programs that work with this? I tried it with jriver and it sounds pretty good, but jriver is not that great of a video player imho so I'm looking for better video players that will work with this.


----------



## mkeroppi

I use virtual audio cable and vst host.


----------



## Sweden

chodi said:


> I use Isone but I never use Isone with my HD800. I use Isone with my other headphones. The HD800 image so well there is no need to insert Isone in the mix. I have tried Isone with my HD800 just to see what would happen and like you, I got some really bad results. Works great with my other headphones though.


 

 That is strange.
 The result I have with the HD800 is so much better than any other headphone I almost think he had to be using the HD800 when developing the program.


----------



## Chodi

sweden said:


> That is strange.
> The result I have with the HD800 is so much better than any other headphone I almost think he had to be using the HD800 when developing the program.


 
 A few days ago I ordered a new usb interface and decided to try Isone again with my HD800's. Now I find that it works as well as it does with my other headphones. The thing about the HD800 is that they are extremely sensitive and revealing of any change in the system. After changing the usb converter I find Isone works well and dials in the  image creating a greater sense of depth and layering. Better focus to the sound field overall. Might be the change in driver that came with the new usb that gets this working properly. I was using a Hiface 2 before and it really did not work well with the HD800 and Isone. Now I like what it does and I will be using Isone with my HD800's. So I stand corrected.


----------



## Crman

Hello guys 
  
 Sorry for asking this if it has been asked already but the thread is super extensive.
  
 Could someone explain me how to install Isone? I downloaded the plugins of TB Isone page but I don't know how to make them work.
 Shouldn't I have to install something to have the program working? Where are all the controls and the program that appears in the Isone's page?
  
 I'm sorry for asking a question like this, but I really don't know how to do it.
  
 Thanks


----------



## gevorg

What music player do you use? Isone is a VST plugin that needs a compatible host player, such as Foobar2000 (with foo_vst) or JRiver Media Center.


----------



## Crman

I usually use VCLplayer to see my 2D movies and Kmplayer to 3D. Are they compatible?
 To have the Isone's display like in the pictures you don't have to install nothing?


----------



## gevorg

Only if they have support for VST plugins, otherwise no. You will need a VST-compatible player to display Isone's interface.


----------



## mkeroppi

What I'm looking for is a hardware VST device that can load and process Isone. Any hints?


----------



## Priidik

mkeroppi said:


> What I'm looking for is a hardware VST device that can load and process Isone. Any hints?


 
 Vst Adapter 2.4 (Hydrogenaudio) is the best choice for foobar2000, some players have the environment built in (like JRiver).


----------



## rsbrsvp

I have done extensive testing with TONEBOOSTERS ISONE and REDLINE MONITOR 112DB  in Pure Music 2.0, Fidelia, and Audrovana Plus.
  
 Both programs work flawlessly in all three music players-  but you need 2.0 version in Pure Music.
  
 I have come out conclusively that Redline Monitor is substantially more realistic, transparent and just believable.  In addition- there are less options allow for simpler fine tuning.
  
 Toneboosters sounds more like a reverb program where Redline creates a much more believable soundstage which to my ears does not harm the frequency response.
  
  
 For my LCD-3 my settings are as follows:  Center- .5     Soundstage- 60      Distance-1.5
  
  
 Now that I have Redline Monitor-  I cannot listen to music without it...   Toneboosters had pluses but the negatives were to much to make it worth to use.


----------



## Lunatique

rsbrsvp said:


> I have done extensive testing with TONEBOOSTERS ISONE and REDLINE MONITOR 112DB  in Pure Music 2.0, Fidelia, and Audrovana Plus.
> 
> Both programs work flawlessly in all three music players-  but you need 2.0 version in Pure Music.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can't really compared them, as that would be unfair to both. Redline Monitor is not a HTRF plugin, as it's just a crossfeed, unable to create the illusion of listening to speakers in a room with proper acoustic response in relation to the physiology of our ears. Isone on the other hand, is meant to create the illusion of listening to speakers in a room, with realistic simulation of acoustic response according to the physiology of your ears, and it is also far more feature-rich, able to simulate a wide range of listening spaces, different types of speaker monitors, has extensive presets and allow far more customization.
  
 Redline Monitor doesn't change the frequency response because it isn't a HTRF algorithm. If the developers added HTRF feature to Redline Monitor, it would also change the frequency response, because in realistic physics, when soundwave bounces around in room and interacts with the shape of your ears and ear canals, the frequency response will change--that is how reality works. Isone is not trying to screw up the frequency response in any way--it is simply reproducing what the music would sound like in a listening space with realistic acoustic response that interacts with a pair of human ears. It is not a reverb algorithm with crossfeed--it is Head Related Transfer Function coupled with realistic room simulation.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Thanks.   I don't understand the technicalities of these programs.   All I know is what my ears are convinced by.  Toneboosters does in fact reproduce a fantastic soundstage- it is just that something sounds synthetic about it to my ears.  On Redline- I don't get that sense.


----------



## Chodi

rsbrsvp said:


> Thanks.   I don't understand the technicalities of these programs.   All I know is what my ears are convinced by.  Toneboosters does in fact reproduce a fantastic soundstage- it is just that something sounds synthetic about it to my ears.  On Redline- I don't get that sense.


 
 Isone also has 3 crossfeed presets that do nothing other than providing three levels of crossfeed while bypassing all the other features. If it is only crossfeed you want Isone can deliver.


----------



## rsbrsvp

chodi said:


> Isone also has 3 crossfeed presets that do nothing other than providing three levels of crossfeed while bypassing all the other features. If it is only crossfeed you want Isone can deliver.


 
 Redline sounds just as much like realistic soundstage to my ears as Toneboosters-  just without the "bouncing off the walls" effect.  I realize Toneboosters may sound more like speakers because of this but to me it looses some of the intimacy and purity of the sound that headphones are known for.   
  
 Toneboosters in crossfeed mode only- does bypass the "bouncing off the walls feature"- but it sounds a bit smeared to my ears.  Redline sounds purer.
  
 I am not looking to imitating speakers exactly.   If I wanted that- I would get speakers.   I like the delivery of headphones in general- I just want to move the sound slightly out of my head without damaging the tone or purity of the sound.  
  
 For those looking to imitate speakers while using headphones- I agree Toneboosters gets much closer because of the acoustic reverberations.


----------



## Sweden

rsbrsvp said:


> I have done extensive testing with TONEBOOSTERS ISONE and REDLINE MONITOR 112DB  in Pure Music 2.0, Fidelia, and Audrovana Plus.
> 
> Both programs work flawlessly in all three music players-  but you need 2.0 version in Pure Music.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I never could get Isone to sound right with any Audeze, unless I put distance at 0 and used it more as a crossfeed. It just messed up tonality too much and degraded the sound for some reason.
 The HD800 is another story. I can't even imagining listening to the HD800 ever again without this program.


----------



## Chodi

sweden said:


> I never could get Isone to sound right with any Audeze, unless I put distance at 0 and used it more as a crossfeed. It just messed up tonality too much and degraded the sound for some reason.
> The HD800 is another story. I can't even imagining listening to the HD800 ever again without this program.


 
 I totally agree. When I owned the HE500's I could never get them to work with Isone but with my HD800's Isone does magic. It is also good with My T1's.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Isone does great things for soundstage- but at the end it ruins the purity of the sound to my ears. Something is just wrong- although I cannot describe it in words so well.   It is a compromise that I am not ready to make.  Maybe if I knew the exact settings that would be perfect for my headphones and my ears - MAYBE it would be O.K.    But I dont and I don't know how to figure it out- just way way to complicated.


----------



## bogi

With my HE-500 I prefer Redline Monitor. Musical instruments sound me more focused, detailed in comparison with Isone Pro.


----------



## Sweden

Anyone know if it's possible to Isone with a smart phone?


----------



## crisnee

lunatique said:


> You can't really compared them, as that would be unfair to both. Redline Monitor is not a HTRF plugin, as it's just a crossfeed, unable to create the illusion of listening to speakers in a room with proper acoustic response in relation to the physiology of our ears. Isone on the other hand, is meant to create the illusion of listening to speakers in a room, with realistic simulation of acoustic response according to the physiology of your ears, and it is also far more feature-rich, able to simulate a wide range of listening spaces, different types of speaker monitors, has extensive presets and allow far more customization.
> 
> Redline Monitor doesn't change the frequency response because it isn't a HTRF algorithm. If the developers added HTRF feature to Redline Monitor, it would also change the frequency response, because in realistic physics, when soundwave bounces around in room and interacts with the shape of your ears and ear canals, the frequency response will change--that is how reality works. Isone is not trying to screw up the frequency response in any way--it is simply reproducing what the music would sound like in a listening space with realistic acoustic response that interacts with a pair of human ears. It is not a reverb algorithm with crossfeed--it is Head Related Transfer Function coupled with realistic room simulation.


 
 According to the Redline Website
  
 " Basically it is a so called 'crossfeed plugin' with a few nifty extra's, that add extra spatiality while keeping the sound as clean as possible. It combines filtering, frequency-dependent delaying, mid/side processing, and room simulation to create a convincing acoustic soundstage that allows you to properly localize sound sources. It also adjusts the relative levels of panned sources as they appear on speakers, and moves the soundstage from an indeterminate location inside your head (with headphones) towards a clearly defined location in front of you.
Now you can accurately judge levels, stereo placement, and overall balance on your favorite set of headphones--anywhere, anytime, and without ear fatigue even after prolonged listening. No more night long headphone sessions that turn out lifeless and with too little reverb and separation on speakers. Redline Monitor makes mixes sound identical on speakers and headphones."
  
 So it's definitely much more than a crossfeed, _and it better be_, as it sells for about $70 while Isone is free. I'm going to try the demo see what it does for me. It better do a lot for $70.
  
 Chris


----------



## Lunatique

crisnee said:


> According to the Redline Website
> 
> " Basically it is a so called 'crossfeed plugin' with a few nifty extra's, that add extra spatiality while keeping the sound as clean as possible. It combines filtering, frequency-dependent delaying, mid/side processing, and room simulation to create a convincing acoustic soundstage that allows you to properly localize sound sources. It also adjusts the relative levels of panned sources as they appear on speakers, and moves the soundstage from an indeterminate location inside your head (with headphones) towards a clearly defined location in front of you.
> Now you can accurately judge levels, stereo placement, and overall balance on your favorite set of headphones--anywhere, anytime, and without ear fatigue even after prolonged listening. No more night long headphone sessions that turn out lifeless and with too little reverb and separation on speakers. Redline Monitor makes mixes sound identical on speakers and headphones."
> ...


 
 Actually, a proper crossfeed is supposed to do all that. You can't just bleed the left and right channels into each other and call that a proper crossfeed--that would be laughable to anyone who understands DSP processing. Most people in the pro audio community finds Redline Monitor a bit overpriced for what it is. I do like the plugin, but there's just no reason to use it when there's Isone available (unless you don't want the additional features Isone has).
  
 BTW, Isone isn't free. It has a trial version, and it is only priced very low because *Jeroen Breebaart *chose to release the audio plugins he wrote for himself to the public as a generous gesture. If he were to price his plugins according to their actual value, Isone would cost at least twice as much as Redline Monitor. Jeroen has stated that the ToneBoosters plugins are like his hobby, while his day job is doing stuff like spatial audio coding for standards like MPEG-4, MPEG Surround, as well as working for Dolby. Basically, he's a heavyweight audio engineer who coded a lot of the stuff we all use on a daily basis. 
  
 And if we're to compare features, Isone is far more impressive:
  
A virtual monitoring setup with adjustable speakers and room acoustic properties – right from your headphones!
 

Description

The perfect listening room… Many have experienced the difficulty to realize a listening environment free of standing waves, undesirable reflections, the perfect reverb time, perfect loudspeaker placement with a flat frequency response, and without any disturbance for others.

With TB Isone, a stereo virtual reproduction system and listening room can now be experienced simply using a high-quality headphones. The frequency response and the directivity pattern of the loudspeakers can be adjusted. Furthermore, the reverb time and volume of the virtual listening room and the distance to the virtual loudspeakers can be fully customized.

TB Isone employs real-time HRTF (head-related transfer function) and BRIR (binaural room impulse response) processing in a flexible VST plugin format. This makes Isone the perfect tool for headphone mixing, binaural room and loudspeaker simulation, and 3D virtual audio processing.

Features

Zero-latency processing, allowing for studio and live operation
 Real-time HRTF and BRIR processing
 Support of all sampling rates from 22 to 192 kHz
 Loudspeaker designer to model frequency response (on axis and 45-degrees off-axis response)
 Customizable room (volume, distance, early reflections, diffusion)
 Customizable loudspeaker azimuth angle (0 to 45 degrees)
 Customizable HRTFs (strength, head size, ear size)
  
  
  
 When you compare the pricing and features of Isone with Redline Monitor, it just doesn't make sense to spend the extra money on Redline Monitor. In a way, Redline Monitor is like Isone, but with lots of features missing (Head-Related Transfer Function, Binaural Room Impulse Response with various acoustic spaces, speaker type emulation, extensive presets, etc). If you took away all those extra features of Isone, it would be pretty close to Redline Monitor in terms of sound and function.


----------



## crisnee

lunatique said:


> Actually, a proper crossfeed is supposed to do all that. You can't just bleed the left and right channels into each other and call that a proper crossfeed--that would be laughable to anyone who understands DSP processing. Most people in the pro audio community finds Redline Monitor a bit overpriced for what it is. I do like the plugin, but there's just no reason to use it when there's Isone available (unless you don't want the additional features Isone has).
> 
> BTW, Isone isn't free. It has a trial version, and it is only priced very low because *Jeroen Breebaart *chose to release the audio plugins he wrote for himself to the public...
> 
> When you compare the pricing and features of Isone with Redline Monitor, it just doesn't make sense to spend the extra money on Redline Monitor...


 
  
 You can't really have it both ways re Redline Monitor. Even they say they are more than just a crossfeed (note nifty extras, room simulation etc.), which by the way, is the only reason they can begin to try to get away with charging $70. A typical crossfeed is usually included free or at a nominal price, see JRiver MC for instance, which costs $50 for arguably the most extensive PC media player available, crossfeed, peq, room correction, etc. included. A crossfeed is a crossfeed. According to your rational Isone is only a crossfeed too. On the other hand in Redline's lingo Isone would be a crossfeed with more nifty extras than Redline's crossfeed has.
  
 Yes, I forgot that Isone cost something (Eur20), even though I own it.
  
 As to why people should prefer Isone to Redline. On paper your thoughts make sense and I would certainly try Isone before anything else. The problem is ears and hearing seem to have a mind of their own (so to speak) and just minor differences in design just might make big differences in performance for some. For about 15% of humans (if I remember correctly) the HRTF doesn't work at all or only marginally. So Isone does little for them and they are left to try other stuff in hopes of finding something that helps. And then there seem to be particular headphone and ear interactions and who knows what else that might lead one to look elsewhere.
  
 Chris


----------



## bogi

Better than only theoretical discussion is to listen and compare.


crisnee said:


> As to why people should prefer Isone to Redline.


 
  
 I would not write what people should do. Diferent people may have different preferences.
 Better than only theoretical discussion is to listen and compare.
 For me RM is better, regardless on smaller number of adjustable controls.


----------



## crisnee

bogi said:


> Better than only theoretical discussion is to listen and compare.
> 
> I would not write what people should do. Diferent people may have different preferences.
> Better than only theoretical discussion is to listen and compare.
> For me RM is better, regardless on smaller number of adjustable controls.


 
 I agree 100%  and I'm pretty sure Lunatique does too. I think my English could have been clearer. I did not mean to suggest that one should prefer Isone.
  
 Chris


----------



## Priidik

chodi said:


> If I read your information correctly, you are using your Yulong DA8 dac as your headphone amp. I would suggest that it is a wonderful dac but the amp section is not up to what the HD800 can really produce. When your budget permits you may want to explore a separate amp for that setup and then see what you think.


 
 Hey, you were right about the amp. The DA8-s hp amp isn't a good synergy it seems.
 Got the HDVA600 and i'm done 
 I tried to compensate problems in tonality and soundstage with Isone, areas, where the amplifier (DA8) let the phones down.
 Still, with some albums the Isone does a great job on bringing the stage in front and gets rid of the panning effects too. 
 Isone is like a teacher who needs to set the troubled student straight (recording-->headphones) and its job is way harder if the technicalities are weak (hp-s, dac and amp).


----------



## Sweden

I would love to try this program with TakeT. I have a feeling they could be a match made in heaven just like with the HD800.


----------



## dmbr

Am I using this wrong? It just makes things sound kinda muddy :/

I really prefer my Dolby Headphone config.


----------



## JML

On my Mac, Isone shows many presets with the name "Program" followed by a number.  They're all the same.  A user can create custom presets and save them outside of the supplied list of presets, but you can't delete the supplied presets from within the plug-in component.  I guess these can be modified with "host" applications for audio processing, but other than Audirvana and AudioHijackPro, I don't have any apps that work with the AudioUnits.  
  
 With the help of the developer, Jeroen Breebaart, I figured out how to remove the presets I don't want (and can't modify), and then I renamed and reorganized the remaining presets.    First, make sure you have an unmodified copy of the plugin that is kept in another location!  I also zipped a backup of the presets and the text file, keeping it within the plugin's "Resources" folder for added insurance.  You need to use three OS-X utilities (two of which must be downloaded):  TextEdit, XCode, and Onyx.
  
 The "TB_Isone_v3.component" has to be opened by selecting "Show Package Contents" from the context menu (right click).  Then open the folders in the package until you see the "Resources" folder, which contains all the presets and a txt file that lists them.  I renamed the preset files in the Finder, and used XCode to change the internal name of each renamed preset (this is a critical step).  Then I edited the "SYFactoryPresets.txt" text file that lists the presets, and matched the renamed presets' names with the list in the text file.  Finally, to make it all work properly, I cleared the AU Cache with Onyx, which restarts the computer afterwards (clearing the cache is necessary).
  
 "Cleaning up" the list, and renaming the remaining ones, makes it easier for me to find the related presets.


----------



## marcoma

Just signed up to say that this thing is a god send. After a long time I finally feel I've found the right settings.


----------



## fmzip

marcoma said:


> Just signed up to say that this thing is a god send. After a long time I finally feel I've found the right settings.


 
 I Agree!
  
 I hardly come on here anymore to find new gear. This software helped soo much in finding just the right adjustment my ears were looking for!


----------



## marcoma

Still no sure if I want to use speaker design or just leave it flat. For some albums its better off flat.


----------



## Chodi

fmzip said:


> I Agree!
> 
> I hardly come on here anymore to find new gear. This software helped soo much in finding just the right adjustment my ears were looking for!


 
 Totally agree! It is very difficult to get the right setting but once you do the results are fantastic. Simply the most realistic out of head experience with headphones. 
  


marcoma said:


> Still no sure if I want to use speaker design or just leave it flat. For some albums its better off flat.


 
 I have used Isone for so long that I can change the settings on the fly to match the needs of the recording. All recordings are, in the end, the product of the sound engineer who mixed the recording. I have used Isone for a long time and know it so well relative to my own hearing that I can easily decide on first listen to a recording if it can be enhanced using the room setting. I think most who try Isone and give up simply because there are so many settings that it can take months to understand what is best for your personal hearing. That is the key to the magic of Isone. It can be tailored to work in a very personal way with your individual hearing. Once you get Isone locked into your hearing there is no going back.


----------



## Alou

Sorry of this has been mentioned before  but i would like to ask if this plug-in can run in jriver 20 (paid version).
 Does it have a VST host ?
  
 Thanks


----------



## gevorg

Yes, you can run it in JRiver as VST.


----------



## Fabithierry

this is really good, but i prefer the J river crossfeed


----------



## Alou

gevorg said:


> Yes, you can run it in JRiver as VST.


 
 Thanks i will try it out!


----------



## flyingsaucer

Hi to everyone!
  
 Please help me calibrate Isone Pro plugin. I would use it to enhance gaming experience, I've a little baby so I cannot use speakers.
 I've red the manual but can someone please provide a sountrack or a VST sound generator that can help during calibration process?
 I've also bought Virtual Audio Cable so using VST Host every sound goes inside it then isone pro plugin and output my real audio card.
 My headphone are AKG 272HD. I've understood that I need a personal calibration because we have different head size and different ears size but I don't succeed in obtain binaural effect. I'm not and audio expert so It's difficult to me understand technical aspect but I believe that it can be possible enhance my gaming experience in this way.
  
 Thanks to everyone in advance for helping.
  
 Here it is my actual setup
http://i61.tinypic.com/2wpryq9.jpg


----------



## mkeroppi

Isone is for stereo feed only. It won't downmix surround sound.


----------



## gevorg

mkeroppi said:


> Isone is for stereo feed only. It won't downmix surround sound.




Yes it will. I have 5.1 SACD rips (6 channels) that Isone processes into 2-channel DAC.

EDIT: Actually, it might just be passing the L/R channel, will have to check later.


----------



## flyingsaucer

mkeroppi said:


> Isone is for stereo feed only. It won't downmix surround sound.


 
  
 I know that it don't downmix I have set up Virtual Audio Cable and my real audio card with only two channels 96khz 24bit so everything games also must use two channels then isone pro must process stereo audio signals. Some tips on calibrating? What kind of sound or audio generation can I use to help on calibrate isone pro with my AKG 272HD?


----------



## kalston

gevorg said:


> Yes it will. I have 5.1 SACD rips (6 channels) that Isone processes into 2-channel DAC.
> 
> EDIT: Actually, it might just be passing the L/R channel, will have to check later.


 
 No it doesn't but there is Isone Surround for that (free). I think it works very well and like it better than Dolby Headphones and co.
  
 I use a similar setup as this guy with Isone Surround or regular Isone depending on the game (some games can't output real surround so I stick to 2.0 for those). I use JRiver virtual soundcard and its DSP engine instead of VST host + VAC though (but I did use that before with some success too)
  
 I haven't really done much calibration on Isone tbh, default settings sound best to me so I just stick with those. Maybe I have the same head as the guy who designed it I don't know


----------



## flyingsaucer

Thank for your answer I'll try also jriver maybe everything may be also more stable.


----------



## XipeTotec

absolutely FAN TAS TIC!


----------



## Lindentwig

Wauw, this is an amazing piece of software indeed.. Why did i not know about this earlier 
  
 Thanks man!


----------



## alexis11

Hi Everyone - First post here, thanks for this excellent thread on TB Isone. Hoping maybe some one can help out with a problem I'm having with set up please?
  
  I've demo'd it a few hours today. It seems like it really has potential in a "Hear what your mix sounds like on different systems" kind of way.

 I am having some problems calibrating one of its HRTF functions though - I hear little to no difference in how much above vs. in front the source seems to be by varying the "Ear Size" knob. Does this mean that my ears are way outside the bell curve? Do others hear an obvious difference? Any idea what I might be doing wrong?

 (TBH ... though I do hear some azimuth changes with the "Head Size" knob, they are *really* subtle. Is it just me?).
  
 Byer DT-880s, and I'm listening to a mono vocal only passage as recommended in the "user manual". "Dual Mono", "Calibrate Me" pre-set. And though I'm not an audio newbie, I'm much closer to that than I am to being an audio professional!

 Thanks for anyone with experience with this interesting (and inexpensive!) plugin!
  
 :


----------



## maverickronin

It's probably a combination of the size/shape of your head and ears along with your headphones.  Other people have reported good results with the DT880's so I doubt it's the headphones alone.
  
 If you have any other headphones, even if they're not very good, they might be worth trying and seeing if you get different results with the ear and head size settings.


----------



## alexis11

maverickronin said:


> It's probably a combination of the size/shape of your head and ears along with your headphones.  Other people have reported good results with the DT880's so I doubt it's the headphones alone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Hi maverickronin, thanks for your very quick reply!

Bummer about the head/ear size. I also have a pair of Beyer DT-770s, as you suggested I'll try those as well. 

Even if I can't get it to sound more "in front" than "above" me, it is still a great deal IMO ... not only for collapsing the unnaturally wide stereo field (I use it for mixing purposes), but also for all the different speaker/room emulations.

Thanks again!

alexis


----------



## maverickronin

alexis11 said:


> Bummer about the head/ear size. I also have a pair of Beyer DT-770s, as you suggested I'll try those as well.


 
  
 Beyer has a fairly consistent house sound so if the DT880 + TB Isone doesn't work very well for you then I'd guess that the DT770 wouldn't give you much different results.
  
 Still worth a try though.


----------



## kidgafanhoto

Man, i'm trying to use Isone Pro plugins in JRiver Media Center 20 but i'm not getting, i open the JRiver > Player > DSP Studio > Manage Plugins > Add JRiver, VST or Winamp plugins > Then i go to the folder where i unzip the Isone Pro plugins > chose one plugin (i can't select more than one at time) > So appears a message: "Error: Failed to install plug-in"

 Someone can help ?


----------



## BeatsWork

kidgafanhoto said:


> Man, i'm trying to use Isone Pro plugins in JRiver Media Center 20 but i'm not getting, i open the JRiver > Player > DSP Studio > Manage Plugins > Add JRiver, VST or Winamp plugins > Then i go to the folder where i unzip the Isone Pro plugins > chose one plugin (i can't select more than one at time) > So appears a message: "Error: Failed to install plug-in"
> 
> 
> Someone can help ?




Is there a 32bit and 64bit version of plugin? Not at my PC but if I recall you have to use 32bit version which was counter intuitive.


----------



## kidgafanhoto

beatswork said:


> Is there a 32bit and 64bit version of plugin? Not at my PC but if I recall you have to use 32bit version which was counter intuitive.


 
  
 It's exactly that ! Thank you very much !
 You know a way to add all plugins at same time ? Because i can't select more than one at time, and add one per one can be a boring task.
 And now that I added all plugins i supposed to mark all [v] , right ? And what i do after this ?

 Thanks !


----------



## BeatsWork

Sorry but I don't think there is any way to load multiple VST's at once but to be clear the only one you need to load is TB_Isone_v3.dll - when you download the package from Isone it includes ALL of their plugins - there might be others of interest to you but not required for TB Isone to work.
  
 Once installed check the box next to Tb_Isone_V3 to activate.  I would deactivate any other DSP plugins you have enabled to start and then go back and enabled if needed.  JR doesn't seem to be as finicky about order as Foobar is but you can also drag and drop VSP's to change processing order.
  
 As far as the actual settings for Isone it's probably a matter of personal preference and gear vs. "optimal settings" - I'm sure someone has posted their favorite settings which you could use as a reference.


----------



## kidgafanhoto

beatswork said:


> Sorry but I don't think there is any way to load multiple VST's at once but to be clear the only one you need to load is TB_Isone_v3.dll - when you download the package from Isone it includes ALL of their plugins - there might be others of interest to you but not required for TB Isone to work.
> 
> Once installed check the box next to Tb_Isone_V3 to activate.  I would deactivate any other DSP plugins you have enabled to start and then go back and enabled if needed.  JR doesn't seem to be as finicky about order as Foobar is but you can also drag and drop VSP's to change processing order.
> 
> As far as the actual settings for Isone it's probably a matter of personal preference and gear vs. "optimal settings" - I'm sure someone has posted their favorite settings which you could use as a reference.


 

 Thank you very much !


----------



## 422561

I tried this in JRiver and it sounds really good with movies. However, I would also like to use it for gaming and read how to attach the VST plugin to the soundcard via Virtual Audio Cable and VSTHost. After installing VB-Audio Virtual Cable, The Cable In can be set to 5.1 but the Cable Out is limited to 2 channel so surely the VAC has already downmixed the 5.1 to 2.0 before it reaches VSTHost. So TB Isone has no surround info to go on in order to create a true virtual surround.
  
 What am I missing here?


----------



## Sweden

Would be cool if there was a possibility to run all your windows sound through Isone. That way you could get the effect listening through youtube or spotify or whatever else source available.
 Anyone know if this is possible?


----------



## 422561

sweden said:


> Would be cool if there was a possibility to run all your windows sound through Isone. That way you could get the effect listening through youtube or spotify or whatever else source available.
> Anyone know if this is possible?


 
  
  
 Virtual Audio Cable + VSTHost.
  
 Surely there is a way for VAC to output as 5.1 rather than only 2 channel? I think I am just missing the obvious.
  
 Edit: Actually reading back through this thread, it looks like I am misunderstanding what this plug-in does. The only reason I looked into it was because someone suggested using it for virtual sound in games but it appears this isn't for converting 5.1 to virtual surround.


----------



## kalston

I use it for gaming all the time. I never managed to get it to work well with VAC though, but with JRiver's WDM driver it's perfect (works for everything btw, not just games). 20ms latency without any pops or clicks, works with either 5.1 (to use with the Isone Surround version) or 2.0 (with the regular Isone plugin). Depending on how fast your PC is you might need a bit more or less latency though. I can only achieve this by using ASIO output on a fast gaming PC.


----------



## 422561

I'll have to look into the jriver approach then. Any hints on how to set it up? 

Also where is the isone surround plugin? I can only see the standard one in the zip file.


----------



## kalston

Isone Surround is not being updated anymore, you have to download the 2.9.1 archive and look in the "Free" folder.
  
 Setting it up with JRiver is easy. You install JRiver and enable the WDM driver functionality, then set JRiver's virtual soundcard as your default sound device. And there you also configure it the way you want it (2.0, 5.1... along with sampling rate and bit depth - optimal is 48khz for most surround content and the highest bitdepth you can select, I think it's 24 for JRiver's WDM device).
  
 Once that's done, in JRiver you can install and enable Isone* (whichever version you want) and configure the audio output (WASAPI exclusive or preferably ASIO for the best performance) as well as the latency.
  
 *make sure to disable ALL other DSPs in JRiver as the mixing, resampling etc. will be handled by windows in this kind of setup! You don't want unnecessary processing that will only reduce sound quality and increase latency. You can use JRiver's internal volume if you need it, though.


----------



## 422561

Thanks for the guide on setting up JRiver WDM. Something wasn't right though and when I go to the properties of the WDM device and click the test button there is a very noticeable delay between the speaker icon displaying which speaker is outputting and actually hearing it. I would say about 2 seconds maybe more.


----------



## kalston

The windows speakers test isn't a good way of testing it, even for me it takes a bit of time to kick in with ~20ms latency. Despite this I can watch a film or play games with no noticeable lip sync issues.
 If you kept the default settings I think JRiver will have about 50ms "live" latency (bottom of the audio settings page) + the playback latency (which depends on your choice of audio output - by default it's DirectSound with 250ms).
  
 Better use a 5.1 test file, something like : https://www2.iis.fraunhofer.de/AAC/multichannel.html (download the files, browser audio is a mess)
  
 I have some others I can upload if you want, including a video where you can also "see" each channel, a bit like the windows test.


----------



## Lunatique

reddfour said:


> Thanks for the guide on setting up JRiver WDM. Something wasn't right though and when I go to the properties of the WDM device and click the test button there is a very noticeable delay between the speaker icon displaying which speaker is outputting and actually hearing it. I would say about 2 seconds maybe more.


 
 Make sure you decrease the latency to as low as your computer can handle. Go to Tools/Options/Audio/Audio Device/Device Settings, and then change the Buffering slider's setting to "More Responsive." Take it as far as your computer can handle before you start to hear glitches. Then test with actual video or game.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Don't you worry you are just getting your brain acclimated to an even more processed sense of sound? I would worry that it will make normal sound unengaging and get me hooked on constantly processing the signal. I uninstalled Isone Pro as it was pleasant, very pleasant, but certainly sounded "created" as opposed to natural.


----------



## Lunatique

sonic defender said:


> Don't you worry you are just getting your brain acclimated to an even more processed sense of sound? I would worry that it will make normal sound unengaging and get me hooked on constantly processing the signal. I uninstalled Isone Pro as it was pleasant, very pleasant, but certainly sounded "created" as opposed to natural.


 
 Are you worried that when you watch movies and TV shows, the lighting, the choice of camera lens, the color grading, the special effects, the editing, the acting, the directing, the sound effects, the score, etc. all will lure your brain into acclimating to super-stimuli and thus reality will lose its luster in comparison? Will you stop watching all movies and TV shows because it's all "created" as opposed to natural? 
  
 The purpose of Isone is actually to make headphones sound MORE natural, not less, in the context of how we are used to hearing audio played back by speakers in an acoustic setting. Headphone listening have always been criticized for sounding unnatural due to the complete disconnect between the two channels, which is nothing like how our auditory system works, and Isone was created to remedy that shortcoming. Isone is much more than just a simple crossfeed, because it also creates a believable acoustic environment (and a wide range of them for you to choose from, and customize), which is what our ears find more natural, since that's what we are hearing all the time when we're not wearing headphones.


----------



## Sonic Defender

lunatique said:


> Are you worried that when you watch movies and TV shows, the lighting, the choice of camera lens, the color grading, the special effects, the editing, the acting, the directing, the sound effects, the score, etc. all will lure your brain into acclimating to super-stimuli and thus reality will lose its luster in comparison? Will you stop watching all movies and TV shows because it's all "created" as opposed to natural?
> 
> The purpose of Isone is actually to make headphones sound MORE natural, not less, in the context of how we are used to hearing audio played back by speakers in an acoustic setting. Headphone listening have always been criticized for sounding unnatural due to the complete disconnect between the two channels, which is nothing like how our auditory system works, and Isone was created to remedy that shortcoming. Isone is much more than just a simple crossfeed, because it also creates a believable acoustic environment (and a wide range of them for you to choose from, and customize), which is what our ears find more natural, since that's what we are hearing all the time when we're not wearing headphones.


 
 The TV analogy doesn't work, but I know what you were trying to get at. And no, headphones can never sound like speakers, they are two completely independent channels physically sealed from each other. All effects that attempt to simulate the interplay of channels as mixed into albums can only approximate, perhaps well, but it needs to adjust all the other relationships to do so. Whatever floats people's boat, there is no right or wrong, for me, the risk of getting used to such processing wasn't worth what it does to my brain's expectation of sound. When I want speaker effects, I use speakers, when I can't I simply accept what headphones are and enjoy them for their own special qualities, but that is my choice and I don't presume you or anybody else needs to feel the same way.


----------



## Lunatique

sonic defender said:


> The TV analogy doesn't work, but I know what you were trying to get at. And no, headphones can never sound like speakers, they are two completely independent channels physically sealed from each other. All effects that attempt to simulate the interplay of channels as mixed into albums can only approximate, perhaps well, but it needs to adjust all the other relationships to do so. Whatever floats people's boat, there is no right or wrong, for me, the risk of getting used to such processing wasn't worth what it does to my brain's expectation of sound. When I want speaker effects, I use speakers, when I can't I simply accept what headphones are and enjoy them for their own special qualities, but that is my choice and I don't presume you or anybody else needs to feel the same way.


 
 One thing to keep in mind, is that only an extremely tiny percentage of the population actually have good acoustic spaces to listen in. Only those who are deadly serious about getting accurate sound will spend the time and money on designing a room that's acoustically treated (or constructed to mastering studio specifications). Which means most people are listening to speakers in rooms that have severe room modes that completely skews the sound, often with deep nulls and spikes in critical frequency ranges that just ruins the sound of the speakers. What you hear in the showrooms that sell the speakers and home theater systems is NOT what you'll hear in your home, since they have experts designing their listening rooms. 
  
 And that is actually the main reason Isone was created. It's to allow people to experience ideal acoustic spaces with their headphones, and its target customer is audio professional who need to monitor their mixes and masters through headphones when they can't have access to ideal acoustic spaces to work in. It also allows them to hear what their mixes and masters would sound like in many typical environments and playback systems--from tiny laptop speakers, car stereos, living rooms, to a room in the next door. Also, audio professionals who need to work on location in different spaces can rely on the headphone they trust and use ideal simulated acoustic spaces so they can maintain consistency no matter where they are physically when working.


----------



## Sonic Defender

lunatique said:


> One thing to keep in mind, is that only an extremely tiny percentage of the population actually have good acoustic spaces to listen in. Only those who are deadly serious about getting accurate sound will spend the time and money on designing a room that's acoustically treated (or constructed to mastering studio specifications). Which means most people are listening to speakers in rooms that have severe room modes that completely skews the sound, often with deep nulls and spikes in critical frequency ranges that just ruins the sound of the speakers. What you hear in the showrooms that sell the speakers and home theater systems is NOT what you'll hear in your home, since they have experts designing their listening rooms.
> 
> And that is actually the main reason Isone was created. It's to allow people to experience ideal acoustic spaces with their headphones, and its target customer is audio professional who need to monitor their mixes and masters through headphones when they can't have access to ideal acoustic spaces to work in. It also allows them to hear what their mixes and masters would sound like in many typical environments and playback systems--from tiny laptop speakers, car stereos, living rooms, to a room in the next door. Also, audio professionals who need to work on location in different spaces can rely on the headphone they trust and use ideal simulated acoustic spaces so they can maintain consistency no matter where they are physically when working.


 
 Fair enough points, although I'm not sure things are as dire with nulls and voids as sometimes the "room treatment" literature would have us believe, but I do agree it is a consideration. My speakers are essentially near-field listening which eliminates/mitigates much of the pitfalls of room acoustics. I also am not sure how large the impact is with these nulls and voids, I'm sure it is on a continuum with some pretty bad rooms, to some pretty good rooms without ay treatment.
  
 I'm a big fan of both headphone and speaker systems, but if I was absolutely forced to chose I would go speakers. As I said, I simply made the decision that I'm good with what headphones are and in fact I am now so used to the super-stereo effect they result in that I hardly even notice the effects. As well, after many years of speaker listening it is as though even when listening to headphones, my brain knows what speaker listening is like and it sees to "fill in the gaps" for me a little, particularly if I am listening to music I am very familiar with on speakers. Anyway, great conversation and I hope you continue to enjoy what Isone Pro brings to the hobby for you. Cheers.


----------



## Lunatique

sonic defender said:


> Fair enough points, although I'm not sure things are as dire with nulls and voids as sometimes the "room treatment" literature would have us believe, but I do agree it is a consideration. My speakers are essentially near-field listening which eliminates/mitigates much of the pitfalls of room acoustics. I also am not sure how large the impact is with these nulls and voids, I'm sure it is on a continuum with some pretty bad rooms, to some pretty good rooms without ay treatment.
> 
> I'm a big fan of both headphone and speaker systems, but if I was absolutely forced to chose I would go speakers. As I said, I simply made the decision that I'm good with what headphones are and in fact I am now so used to the super-stereo effect they result in that I hardly even notice the effects. As well, after many years of speaker listening it is as though even when listening to headphones, my brain knows what speaker listening is like and it sees to "fill in the gaps" for me a little, particularly if I am listening to music I am very familiar with on speakers. Anyway, great conversation and I hope you continue to enjoy what Isone Pro brings to the hobby for you. Cheers.


 
 If you are interested in getting the best sound out of your speakers in your chosen listening space, I highly recommend you take a look at IK Multimedia's ARC System 2:
 http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/arc/
  
 I use it and can vouch for its effectiveness. But using it alone might not be enough, depending on what your listening space is like. After you do the measurement, you should take a close look at where the most drastic nulls and peaks are and think about whether you want to move your speakers/listening position, as that makes a profound difference in how flat your speakers will sound. Even just a few inches can mean the difference between acceptable accuracy and a deep null or sharp peak at critical frequency ranges. If you can add acoustic treatment that'll help a lot too. 
  
 I have posted detailed tips on how to achieve ideal accuracy with speakers with room/speaker correction system, acoustic treatment, and speaker/listening position placement in this thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/796791/the-most-reliable-easiest-way-to-eq-headphones-properly-to-achieve-the-most-ideal-sound-for-non-professionals/30#post_12305079
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/796791/the-most-reliable-easiest-way-to-eq-headphones-properly-to-achieve-the-most-ideal-sound-for-non-professionals/105#post_12335849
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/796791/the-most-reliable-easiest-way-to-eq-headphones-properly-to-achieve-the-most-ideal-sound-for-non-professionals/75#post_12332855


----------



## Sonic Defender

lunatique said:


> If you are interested in getting the best sound out of your speakers in your chosen listening space, I highly recommend you take a look at IK Multimedia's ARC System 2:
> http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/arc/


 
 Thanks mate, I am actually pretty interested in doing something like this in the spring once I actually have time. My room is actually fairly good for acoustics, but if I can learn something that would be fantastic as I do love speaker listening. Cheers.


----------



## 422561

I had a mess around with the latency options last night but the audio still way out. In fact, it didn't seem to make a lot of difference. It might just be my PC.


----------



## jincuteguy

So is this software still the best as of 2016?


----------



## Lunatique

jincuteguy said:


> So is this software still the best as of 2016?


 
 As far as I know, there is no other alternative that does everything Isone does. Other similar products are either just very basic cross-feeds, or very basic HRTF, but don't have the extensive set of controls for various settings, listening environment presets, speaker type presets, etc.


----------



## jincuteguy

So I just downloaded the TB Isone, and they are just a bunches of DLL files? How do I use Isone for Gaming? 
 There is no Setup file?


----------



## Lunatique

jincuteguy said:


> So I just downloaded the TB Isone, and they are just a bunches of DLL files? How do I use Isone for Gaming?
> There is no Setup file?


 
 You have to use a VST host and load the DLL file. The only decent working option I know of currently that could work with games, is if you use J River Media Center and use its audio driver so you can host the Isone plugin with its DSP studio. No other software the hijacks the Windows audio stream can host VST plugins that I know of.


----------



## jincuteguy

lunatique said:


> You have to use a VST host and load the DLL file. The only decent working option I know of currently that could work with games, is if you use J River Media Center and use its audio driver so you can host the Isone plugin with its DSP studio. No other software the hijacks the Windows audio stream can host VST plugins that I know of.


 
 So after I installed the J River Media Center, and add the plug in, and open up a game and it should work? or how do I make the J River work with games?


----------



## Lunatique

jincuteguy said:


> So after I installed the J River Media Center, and add the plug in, and open up a game and it should work? or how do I make the J River work with games?


 
 You're using J River Media Center for its audio driver, which you have to enable in your Windows audio setting. Then, make sure you have the plugin loaded up and activated in Media Center. Also make sure the latency is short enough so there's no audible lag--you do that in Media Center's audio settings. 
  
 After that, you should be able to play your game and hear the audio going through the Media Center audio driver and processed by its DSP Studio. 
  
 If you are having problem, you should post in J River's forum so they can help you: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/


----------



## jincuteguy

lunatique said:


> You're using J River Media Center for its audio driver, which you have to enable in your Windows audio setting. Then, make sure you have the plugin loaded up and activated in Media Center. Also make sure the latency is short enough so there's no audible lag--you do that in Media Center's audio settings.
> 
> After that, you should be able to play your game and hear the audio going through the Media Center audio driver and processed by its DSP Studio.
> 
> If you are having problem, you should post in J River's forum so they can help you: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/


 
  
 Yea I made it work for Diablo 3 game.  But it has a 1sec audio delay, everytime i cast something in game, there's a 1sec delay, too much latency.
 how do I check how much latency for the plugin?


----------



## Lunatique

jincuteguy said:


> Yea I made it work for Diablo 3 game.  But it has a 1sec audio delay, everytime i cast something in game, there's a 1sec delay, too much latency.
> how do I check how much latency for the plugin?


 
 What buffer/latency setting are you using in Media Center's audio options? Ideally, you want to use as low setting as your computer can handle without hearing distortion/crackling, so there's no audible latency.


----------



## jincuteguy

lunatique said:


> What buffer/latency setting are you using in Media Center's audio options? Ideally, you want to use as low setting as your computer can handle without hearing distortion/crackling, so there's no audible latency.


 
 I don't see any buffer / latency settings in the Audio options? Is it PreBuffering?


----------



## Lunatique

Options/Audio/Audio Device/Device settings.
  
 If using Direct Sound driver, then move slider to as far towards "More Responsive" as your computer can handle without cracking and pops and distortions. 
  
 If using ASIO or WASAPI driver, then change the drop-down setting for "Buffering" to as short as your computer can handle.


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## kalston

To me it's still the best software of its kind.
  
 Also latency wise I find that only ASIO is acceptable when using JRiver's WDM driver (on Windows 7 anyway, audio latency has been improved a little in WIndows 10). With WASAPI when I lower the latency too much I start getting crackling really quickly (Xonar U7 user here). I think with Directsound you will really struggle to get this working well for gaming. This varies from computer to computer of course.


----------



## jincuteguy

kalston said:


> To me it's still the best software of its kind.
> 
> Also latency wise I find that only ASIO is acceptable when using JRiver's WDM driver (on Windows 7 anyway, audio latency has been improved a little in WIndows 10). With WASAPI when I lower the latency too much I start getting crackling really quickly (Xonar U7 user here). I think with Directsound you will really struggle to get this working well for gaming. This varies from computer to computer of course.


 
 So ASIO is the fastest ? and which one has the best sound quality? ASIO, DirectSound, or WASAPI?


----------



## kalston

Yes ASIO is the fastest, your application is talking to the soundcard directly. WASAPI exclusive is okay as well, but not quite a direct connection (doesn't quite go straight to the hardware, it still goes through Windows). Directsound goes through the Windows audio engine - it adds a layer of processing and some latency.
  
 There shouldn't really be an audible difference in quality, although Directsound CAN sound worse because of the processing (resampling in particular) involved. WASAPI exclusive and ASIO output strictly the same thing.


----------



## DivineCurrent

TB Isone is absolutely amazing. I have experimented with some of the HRTF settings that were very convincing, but I use it mostly for the crossfeed presets. The best way I can describe it is the sound is more open and "full" with this software, probably because it emulates what listening to speakers would sound like, since both channels are being heard with both ears. Since I prefer the more spatial speaker listening to headphone listening, this is perfect for me. Also improves soundstage drastically on headphones with poor soundstage. I use TB Isone as a VST with Foobar, and the setting I use most is the "Natural Crossfeed" preset, and it makes my HD650 sound like a high end set of speakers!


----------



## jincuteguy

achelgeson said:


> TB Isone is absolutely amazing. I have experimented with some of the HRTF settings that were very convincing, but I use it mostly for the crossfeed presets. The best way I can describe it is the sound is more open and "full" with this software, probably because it emulates what listening to speakers would sound like, since both channels are being heard with both ears. Since I prefer the more spatial speaker listening to headphone listening, this is perfect for me. Also improves soundstage drastically on headphones with poor soundstage. I use TB Isone as a VST with Foobar, and the setting I use most is the "Natural Crossfeed" preset, and it makes my HD650 sound like a high end set of speakers!


 
 What crossfeed preset? Isn't TB sone is a preset itself? I don't see any CrossFeed preset or options in the TB Isone vst?


----------



## DivineCurrent

jincuteguy said:


> What crossfeed preset? Isn't TB sone is a preset itself? I don't see any CrossFeed preset or options in the TB Isone vst?


 
 What media player are you using? It shows up for me using Foobar. There should be a Presets Pane checkmark at the top right. it looks like this:
  

  
 You need to use a VST wrapper for Foobar, and if you're using something different, see if there is an option to access TB Isone's preset programs. They are technically called programs, not presets, so maybe that's why you can't find it.


----------



## mkeroppi

Well said. I have been using the software for a few years now. I trust it completely for mixes that I don't even need to check with speakers. I've heard more on a mix with it and the sound field is very large with everything positioned at the right places (and audible). If you are only using near fields, you still need to check your mix on the big speakers (and in a good room). Now imagine you can mix and be creative anywhere with the software!
  
 The only complaint is that I wish the software have options for bigger rooms for listening (maybe the calculations won't be as accurate). I am definitely maxing out the room size option with a 0.6s T60 reverb for listening (max room size and 0.25s T60 for mixing).


----------



## Sweden

I've tried many headphones with Isone and but the Fostex TX00 is he first closed headphones to sound really good yet. Not HD800 level but still.
 Headphones that roll off too much up top seems to fair badly even though they might sound superb on their own.


----------



## DivineCurrent

I am interning at a record publisher and got to have some experience in their studio with Yamaha HS-8 powered monitors. I used that setup to mix and master and then switched to my HD650s with the near-field room settings on TB Isone at home. It's a pretty darn good replacement for studio monitors in my opinion, in fact you probably get flatter more accurate sound from the headphones with Isone Pro than some studio monitors.


----------



## Lunatique

achelgeson said:


> I am interning at a record publisher and got to have some experience in their studio with Yamaha HS-8 powered monitors. I used that setup to mix and master and then switched to my HD650s with the near-field room settings on TB Isone at home. It's a pretty darn good replacement for studio monitors in my opinion, in fact you probably get flatter more accurate sound from the headphones with Isone Pro than some studio monitors.


 
 That is indeed the case, because not all studios have adequate acoustics, acoustic treatment, monitors/furniture/listening spot positioning, room/speaker correction solution, etc. I've seen enough room measurement results from different "professional studios" to question the accuracy of their monitoring system. A headphone that's respected for its well-balanced frequency response will likely be more accurate than subpar listening environments.


----------



## AtrafCreez

Hi, going to their site I see hardware.  Do they have a software download for TB Isone ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks


----------



## AtrafCreez

Hi,   I am mainly concerned with crossfeed.  In that case is downloading Isone jus overkill for my newbie talents?


----------



## DivineCurrent

atrafcreez said:


> Hi,   I am mainly concerned with crossfeed.  In that case is downloading Isone jus overkill for my newbie talents?


 
  


atrafcreez said:


> Hi, going t their site I see hardware.  Do they have a software download for TB Isone ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Check out this link: http://www.toneboosters.com/download/
  
 This makes you download all the other ToneBoosters software plugins for free. Keep in mind they are trial downloads, but the only limitation for TB Isone is you can't save your settings, but that's not a big deal if you remember what you set everything to. Also, for crossfeed, there should be a group of presets that say "Minimal Crossfeed", "Subtle Crossfeed", and "Natural Crossfeed". You can also manually change the crossfeed by adjusting the "Distance" knob on the bottom left corner of the plugin. I wouldn't say it's overkill because to my ears TB Isone has the best crossfeed I've heard yet.


----------



## ironmine

Quote:


atrafcreez said:


> Hi,   I am mainly concerned with crossfeed.  In that case is downloading Isone jus overkill for my newbie talents?


 
  
 Don't spend any money for Isone. Just use Meier crossfeed, it's free and its crossfeed effect is of highest quality.


----------



## AtrafCreez

Thank You for your input, time and information.


----------



## Lunatique

allQuote: 





ironmine said:


> Quote:
> 
> Don't spend any money for Isone. Just use Meier crossfeed, it's free and its crossfeed effect is of highest quality.


 
 Isone is much more than just a crossfeed--it also includes HRTF (Head Related Transfer Function), which is required for the most realistic simulation of listening to speakers in a room, as well as room and speaker modeling, which allows you to create the most ideal virtual listening environment. Also, the creator of Isone is a highly respected audio engineer that worked on some really important audio standards: http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/


----------



## ironmine

lunatique said:


> Isone is much more than just a crossfeed--it also includes HRTF (Head Related Transfer Function), which is required for the most realistic simulation of listening to speakers in a room, as well as room and speaker modeling, which allows you to create the most ideal virtual listening environment. Also, the creator of Isone is a highly respected audio engineer that worked on some really important audio standards: http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/


 
  
 This "realistic simulation of listening to speakers in a room" does not sound good. Not everybody needs it. Maybe some audio engineers require it, but I doubt that audiophiles, looking for the pure enjoyment of music, need it.
  
 We use headphones to get rid of the effects of a room and to get rid of the imperfections of a speaker. To connect to music directly. It would be unwise to try to add these damaging effects again. For most listeners, the pure effect of a crossfeed is enough and is preferable.


----------



## Lunatique

ironmine said:


> This "realistic simulation of listening to speakers in a room" does not sound good. Not everybody needs it. Maybe some audio engineers require it, but I doubt that audiophiles, looking for the pure enjoyment of music, need it.
> 
> We use headphones to get rid of the effects of a room and to get rid of the imperfections of a speaker. To connect to music directly. It would be unwise to try to add these damaging effects again. For most listeners, the pure effect of a crossfeed is enough and is preferable.


 
 You can choose from any type of room and speaker setup, INCLUDING high-end mastering quality professional studio environments that have the best room response and the most accurate mastering speakers, which means no undesirable room modes with annoying nulls and peaks in the room response, or stereo imaging anomalies, or smearing of details from reflections, or deficient/inaccurate frequency response.
  
 All of the best recorded and engineered music on the planet were created in such facilities, and the mastering engineers aim to have their work sound the best on speakers first and foremost. Recent changes in listening habits of the public has made them pay more attention to how their work would sound on headphones, including cheap earbuds, but the golden standard has been and still is, an ideal listening room with high-end full-range speakers. 
  
 With that said, the headphones you are using with Isone will impart its own coloring, so it's not as if whatever headphones you are using is some kind of infallible golden audiophile standard. So unless you own a pair of stunning accurate headphones--something that ranks high on InnerFidelity's Wall of Fame, what you're hearing  straight from the headphone will contain coloration. 
  
 Also, look at how long this thread is. A huge number of people here at head-fi love Isone, and many of them are indeed audiophiles, including those who own high-end gear and are quite knowledgeable about audio.


----------



## ironmine

lunatique said:


> You can choose from any type of room and speaker setup, INCLUDING high-end mastering quality professional studio environments that have the best room response and the most accurate mastering speakers, which means no undesirable room modes with annoying nulls and peaks in the room response, or stereo imaging anomalies, or smearing of details from reflections, or deficient/inaccurate frequency response.
> 
> All of the best recorded and engineered music on the planet were created in such facilities, and the mastering engineers aim to have their work sound the best on speakers first and foremost. Recent changes in listening habits of the public has made them pay more attention to how their work would sound on headphones, including cheap earbuds, but the golden standard has been and still is, an ideal listening room with high-end full-range speakers.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The best speakers are no speakers at all. The non-existence of speakers, not matter how perfect they might be, is my goal when I listen to music. This is my golden standard 

 Headphones do add their coloring and this is bad enough. Why aggravate the matter with distorting the sound even further by adding the effects of speakers and room? If there is a technology letting us to get rid of the coloring of headphones (without significant side effects), I will welcome it.

 Yeah, this thread is long but it consists mainly of your messages where you relentlessly advertise the Isone Pro. I guess you are affiliated to this company? On the other hand, for most people, being "an useful (unpaid) fool" is already enough motivation to push some ideas or products.
  
 Also, I remember when I offered my own settings (they go at this forum under the name "ironmine settings") for Isone, where I suggested to switch off ALL effects in Isone and use ONLY the crossfeed (with minimum settings too), the people enthusiastically embraced this approach and were shocked at the clarity of the resultant sound.


----------



## Lunatique

ironmine said:


> The best speakers are no speakers at all. The non-existence of speakers, not matter how perfect they might be, is my goal when I listen to music. This is my golden standard
> 
> Headphones do add their coloring and this is bad enough. Why aggravate the matter with distorting the sound even further by adding the effects of speakers and room? If there is a technology letting us to get rid of the coloring of headphones (without significant side effects), I will welcome it.
> 
> ...


 
 You can set the speaker to totally flat, and also take out the room entirely--that's the beauty of Isone--you can create any kind of listening environment you want, AND still get HRTF. No simple crossfeed will give you that. But ultimately, people will use whatever they prefer, and even the people who use stuff that's obviously very colored and grossly inaccurate--those people's joy aren't any less legitimate, so live and let live.  I prefer Isone to simple crossfeeds, and I don't really care if others feel the same. I started this thread to share something I thought fellow headphone enthusiasts would really enjoy, that's all.
  
 No, I'm no affiliated with Isone in any way. I was a fan of it from way back during the original version of Isone Pro, and raved about it with fellow musicians on KVR Audio forums, and when I joined head-fi, I thought this would be perfect for fellow headphone enthusiasts, so I shared it here. And since I'm the OP, I kind of have a responsibility to answer people's questions about it whenever I see new post notification emails from head-fi. I rarely even visit head-fi anymore, except for the occasional PM from people asking for my opinion on something, or maybe post some recent photography, or participating in the music recommendation threads. I also rarely ever use headphones, since I much prefer my Klein+Hummel O 300Ds with the Neumann KH805 sub.


----------



## DivineCurrent

ironmine said:


> The best speakers are no speakers at all. The non-existence of speakers, not matter how perfect they might be, is my goal when I listen to music. This is my golden standard
> 
> Headphones do add their coloring and this is bad enough. Why aggravate the matter with distorting the sound even further by adding the effects of speakers and room? If there is a technology letting us to get rid of the coloring of headphones (without significant side effects), I will welcome it.
> 
> ...


 
 There is a technology that does get rid of most of the coloration of headphones, it's called Sonarworks. I use it with my HD 650s, best upgrade to my system ever. It is essentially EQ, but it basically makes the sound perfectly balanced and with a frequency curve of your choice, completely flat if you wish. I actually use Sonarworks together with TB Isone, and I couldn't be happier with anything else, even sounds better than a standalone HD 800 to me. Give it a try definitely, they have a free 30 day trial, and you most likely have at least one headphone that is on their list.


----------



## Lunatique

achelgeson said:


> There is a technology that does get rid of most of the coloration of headphones, it's called Sonarworks. I use it with my HD 650s, best upgrade to my system ever. It is essentially EQ, but it basically makes the sound perfectly balanced and with a frequency curve of your choice, completely flat if you wish. I actually use Sonarworks together with TB Isone, and I couldn't be happier with anything else, even sounds better than a standalone HD 800 to me. Give it a try definitely, they have a free 30 day trial, and you most likely have at least one headphone that is on their list.


 
 I've tested Sonarworks before and it's pretty good, but since I already EQ my headphones to the Harman Target Response Curve and get very similar results (instructions here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/796791/the-most-reliable-easiest-way-to-eq-headphones-properly-to-achieve-the-most-ideal-sound-for-non-professionals), I don't need to spend the money on Sonarworks. I do recommend it for people who don't want to take the time to learn how to do it themselves.


----------



## stuck limo

Can someone please explain to me how to set this up in MusicBee 3.0.6067? I am unsure if I'm doing something right or wrong. So far I have done:
  
 - Downloaded the ZIP file for TB Isone
 -Copied and pasted the .dll files to a VST folder inside of the MusicBee Plugins folder (not sure if they should be in the Plugins root folder or a separate VST folder inside the Plugins?)
 -Set the path for VST Host in MusicBee to "C:\Program Files (x86)\MusicBee\Plugins\VST in Preferences\Plugins" (not sure if that's correct either?)
  
 Any help would be appreciated so I can mess around with this program and experiment.


----------



## Lunatique

FYI, Tonebooster's released another very useful headphone plugin called Morphit. It corrects your headphone's frequency response, simulate other famous headphones, and more.
  
 Check out the thread I just created for it here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/832543/tonebooster-morphit-correct-your-headphones-frequency-response-simulate-other-famous-headphones-and-more


----------



## stuck limo

Bump for Musicbee help.


----------



## Lunatique

stuck limo said:


> Bump for Musicbee help.


 
 Have you tried contacting the developer of Musicbee or its user-base forum (if they have one)?


----------



## stuck limo

lunatique said:


> Have you tried contacting the developer of Musicbee or its user-base forum (if they have one)?


 
  
 Yes, and they had no clue.


----------



## Lunatique

stuck limo said:


> Yes, and they had no clue.


 
 That is usually a sign that you might be better off choosing a different app. Currently, the golden standard for many audiophiles is JRiver's Media Center (which is what I use).


----------



## stuck limo

I have ANOTHER question: I have Morphit installed and I have Foobar running it. It only starts up when Foobar starts up. How do I access it through Foobar when Foobar is already running? I do George Yohng's VST Wrapper installed/running and I'm still not sure how to access that either. Any help on both would be great.
  
 EDIT: I'm using this on JRiver now (both are demo). Works flawlessly and without the Foobar BS learning curve.
  
 EDIT AGAIN: With Morphit, does anyone know how "actually" accurate the sound signatures are? I'm using Sennheiser 600, so if I switch to say, Audeze LCD2, how "accurate" or "closely" will that *actually* sound to a REAL pair of LCD2?


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## buchignani (Apr 27, 2017)

I am a great fan of both TB Isone and Meier products and have both.

I have to state most strongly that Meier crossfeed (which I have in the Daccord DAC and the Classic headamp and once had in the original Meier headamp before I modified the latter to the point that the crossfeed was gone) is nothing like TB Isone and is not a replacement for it.

As case in point, I listen to a lot of early jazz and blues, all of which originally was recorded in mono. As either a mono track or converted to stereo Meier cross feed of course does nothing whatever here. But as stereo tracts TB Isone gives a really valuable sense of space to these old recordings. Switching TB Isone on and off here isn't a subtle difference.

For modern things recorded in stereo crossfeed sounds entirely different. I greatly prefer TB Isone here.

p.s. I use TB Isone when playing software epianos also: it coveys a bit more realism when listening with headphones.


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## abm0

Tried it in Audacity on a Windows XP. Nope. Just as unconvincing as every other crossfeed plugin (including the much touted Meier Crossfeed, which I tried in the form that comes included with foobar2000 on Android). The unchanging fact is: _nothing_ sounds like it's in front of me when I'm listening on headphones.

Really the only cheap trick I've found to get such an impression is to bow my head forward as if asleep in a chair: since soundstage-central sources typically sound to me like they're playing from above, with my head in this position "above" becomes "forward" and I can sorta convince myself the singers are up on a stage in front of me.  But these fancy-shmancy plugins? No. Not one. All they do is add reverb and make things sound like they're more "in a room", but that room space is everywhere except in front of me.


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## Bloos

abm0 said:


> Tried it in Audacity on a Windows XP. Nope. Just as unconvincing as every other crossfeed plugin (including the much touted Meier Crossfeed, which I tried in the form that comes included with foobar2000 on Android). The unchanging fact is: _nothing_ sounds like it's in front of me when I'm listening on headphones.
> 
> Really the only cheap trick I've found to get such an impression is to bow my head forward as if asleep in a chair: since soundstage-central sources typically sound to me like they're playing from above, with my head in this position "above" becomes "forward" and I can sorta convince myself the singers are up on a stage in front of me.  But these fancy-shmancy plugins? No. Not one. All they do is add reverb and make things sound like they're more "in a room", but that room space is everywhere except in front of me.



You should definitely try OOYH if you haven't, it really worked for me but only with some of the speaker options


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## castleofargh

abm0 said:


> Tried it in Audacity on a Windows XP. Nope. Just as unconvincing as every other crossfeed plugin (including the much touted Meier Crossfeed, which I tried in the form that comes included with foobar2000 on Android). The unchanging fact is: _nothing_ sounds like it's in front of me when I'm listening on headphones.
> 
> Really the only cheap trick I've found to get such an impression is to bow my head forward as if asleep in a chair: since soundstage-central sources typically sound to me like they're playing from above, with my head in this position "above" becomes "forward" and I can sorta convince myself the singers are up on a stage in front of me.  But these fancy-shmancy plugins? No. Not one. All they do is add reverb and make things sound like they're more "in a room", but that room space is everywhere except in front of me.


welcome to non standard head club. the delays and EQ of cossfeed plugins are made based on some average standard, just having a different head size results in a lot of changes. I'm in the same situation with mono sounds going up onto my forehead, or inside my skull depending on the headphone I use.
the trial of OOYH is free so there really is no reason not to try, but in my case while the room reverb can be very nice, it didn't do anything for that mono going up situation. and TBH it's to be expected as this system also has to make assumptions about the listener to be able to deliver a generic solution.

the simple but costly option is to get a Smyth Realiser, they expect to start delivering the latest model in August. you put mics in your ears, and measure both your speakers and your headphone, so the result is for you within the limits of the microphones and how good your headphone is as good copy implies good fidelity. still, better than pretty much anything else for people like us who don't apply to the standard head shape/size.

a more involving and way more limited solution is to try those sounds http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/salles/listen/sounds.html and find out which HRTF comes closer to offering you a proper front area. 
even if you don't fnd anything good, I find that very revealing of how different 2 human subjects can perceive the exact same sound. HRTF isn't a trivial thing. 
as you'll typically only use the 30° and 330° at 0 altitude HRIR to simulate speaker position, that's the position you have to focus on when listening to the rotating signal. how good the rest of the circle is will ultimately be totally irrelevant and will not help.
once you think you have something not too bad, you download the corresponding HRIR files and you use as I said the 330° and 30° azimuth at 0° altitude in a "true stereo" convolver. the only convolution scheme that will allow to mix 2 stereo files(so 4 channels).
there is a plug in for foobar, but other options are available too to apply those impulse responses.

if that felt complicated, well it's also not great ^_^:
-first the website offers a limited number of people measured, so you need to get lucky to find someone like you.
-second, those tests care for position, not for distance, so even with the best result it shouldn't be better than fairly close monitors. don't expect anything like a custom version of OOYH with vast rooms and cool reverb as the test is done with relatively close sound sources and pretty much no reverb.
third, in my case at least, the one HRIR closest to what I want happens to have a pretty clear imbalance between left and right and I can clearly notice it. so I started to make my own wave files with the impulses, taking one side and inverting the channel to make the other side and get symmetry.
pretty time consuming all in all for TBH a very limited result. it's better than what I get from a basic convolver when it comes to sounds supposed to be in front of me, but that's about it.

so back to my first advice, get a Smyth Realiser, accept the fact that you're a special case and standards don't apply to you. it's expensive to be different but at least it's calibrated on you for the best result. or accept that you're different, and give up on getting good imaging with headphones ^_^. I've been contemplating both options for years.


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## abm0 (Jun 16, 2017)

castleofargh said:


> welcome to non standard head club. the delays and EQ of cossfeed plugins are made based on some average standard, just having a different head size results in a lot of changes. I'm in the same situation with mono sounds going up onto my forehead, or inside my skull depending on the headphone I use.


OK, full disclosure: about 5 years ago I killed my sensitivity to the 7.5 kHz - 10.5 kHz range in my left ear pretty much completely and gave myself mild tinnitus to go with that (but above that range I can still hear just fine to 16-17 kHz). Now if this were _the_ cause of my inability to hear realistic binaural soundstage reproductions on headphones I would have to have the same problem when listening to real sounds in real environments, but I don't. So thanks for your suggested head-shape hypothesis - that seems much more plausible, not to mention it keeps my hope alive that somehow something could be set up to work for me. 

One tentative addition to that hypothesis though: I also have pretty atypically forward-rotated pinnae (think "Obama ears") and I'd be very surprised if that didn't play an important part as well in my different way of hearing sounds as coming from forward/non-forward sources. The obvious solution to this (part of) the problem would be significantly angled drivers like those in the HD800 or more excentric and adjustable designs like the AKG K1000 / MySphere 3.1, none of which I have any means to try for now to confirm. 

But thanks for the additional software-based suggestions, I'll give those a try one of these days.


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## castleofargh

sure, I mentioned the head size for crossfeed as one obvious variable, but of course everything unique to us will have a unique impact on sound and our outside ears are no stranger to uniqueness. 

as for hearing loss, I imagine there is such a thing as too much to work properly, but the high frequencies slowly fade away with the years for all of us and we keep doing ok up to a point. IMO if your brain could adapt well enough to provide the right position for most sounds in real life when you have your eyes closed, then you're fine and headphone problems are specifically headphone problems.

for issues like wrong stereo for albums mastered on speakers, Isone and other guys do a great job at trying to offer more or less specific tuning and compensation. the difficulty being to make sense of all the options and to know what is needed for us. of course the closer the listener is to having a standard head, the easier it should be for him to get good results. 
as for binaural recordings, they have the same kind of problems. if they're done with 2 mics alone, then they lack the changes usually applied by your head and torso. and if they use a dummy head, the cues applied to the sound are for that dummy head, which is based on the average human dude. so we're back to point 1, our head isn't average and we're screwed with average targets compensations.


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## abm0 (May 10, 2017)

Ahh, looks like there's still more to do than just compensating for the shape of the head, torso and ears and adding the right spatial cues in the recording itself: our brains also factor in the changes we hear in the sound when we turn our heads relative to the source (which we tend to do IRL without thinking about it, we don't listen to live music sitting perfectly still, like statues). Found this in a short primer with some references: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones..._the_bitter_debate_over_headphone_soundstage/


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## castleofargh

yup. sadly once again it is but part of the cues interpreted by the brain. I've have a wave NX head tracker, a little buggy Bluetooth crap you put on your headphone to track gentle head rotation. it's associated with 2 possible software. the most advanced one offers some default room reverb where you set how much reverb you want, and a 360° position for where you wish to have the virtual speakers. the only anatomical customization is to add 2 measurements for your head size and it does improve some aspects of the imaging. BUT! it's far from enough to call it customized sound or to get a good soundstage if your head isn't close enough to their references. it's the recurrent problem with most systems, from basic crossfeed to OOYH... they assume you have an average head. in that specific respect, TB isone is better. even if you are required to get where you need to be empirically with setting that aren't as intuitive or directly related to objective anatomy, you do get the ability to customize a lot of parameters. 

anyway the head tracking is kind of fun if only because it brings novelty to the headphone experience, but  when faced to chose between a crossfeed setting that works ok for me, and head tracking, I soon forgot about the NX head tracker and its various limitations. 
 the more we try to locate a sound the more likely we are to move our head to better "triangulate". more positions for the same sound source increases the accuracy of the localization drastically and our brain knows the trick. sadly getting great precision when the position cues are bollocks, that's of limited benefit ^_^. so IMO head tracking is a great bonus in addition to everything else being well done. thus why I feel like only the Smyth realiser might get me and my weird head to the second base of headphone audio.


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## abm0

castleofargh said:


> the trial of OOYH is free so there really is no reason not to try, but in my case while the room reverb can be very nice, it didn't do anything for that mono going up situation.
> [...]
> a more involving and way more limited solution is to try those sounds http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/salles/listen/sounds.html and find out which HRTF comes closer to offering you a proper front area.
> [...]
> the website offers a limited number of people measured, so you need to get lucky to find someone like you.


Funny thing is none of the HRTF-based samples did anything frontal for me, but I distinctly heard things going on (way out) in front of me in some of the OOYH samples they put in the "Multi-Speaker System Comparison with 2 CH jazz music" demo file. Particularly the third room response they have there put the rolling cymbal and the clapping-whatever clearly and undeniably forward for me, and at a respectable distance too. So now I need to find those good rooms in their trial and see how fully left- and right-panned sounds work in those cases where The Elusive and Magical Forwardness is achieved.


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## castleofargh

indeed if you have already found something that seemed to work for you and your headphone, jump on it ^_^. 

about the hrtf samples, I gave that limited and complicated idea to try and deal specifically with you mentioning how the frontal sounds felt as if coming from above. in my case while most were indeed going up when coming closer to the frontal position, a few were at the right ... "altitude", or even a little below. but as I said those samples are made based on sound sources really close to the subjects. so good distance isn't one of the effects you would achieve anyway even if you happened to really match one subject perfectly.


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## ironmine

I achieved an interesting and quite pleasing effect by using the Isone Pro Surround VST plugin on regular stereo. I connected the left and right channels to the left and right inputs of the Isone Pro Surround (these are its inputs #1 and #2), but also connected the attenuated (to 25%) left and right channels to the rear left and rear right inputs (these are its inputs #5 and #6) to add some ambience behind. I also attenuated (to 25%) the left and right channels and connected them both to the center input (#3) of the Isone Pro Surround VST plugin to simulate the center. Input #4 (LFE) is empty.

Set the other settings (head, ears, room, etc.) of the plugin to your liking.

I also placed the Fab Filter Pro-Q 2 VST equalizer in front of the Isone Pro Surround VST plugin to boost the bass a bit.


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## abm0 (Jun 16, 2017)

In the end I gave up on OOYH because of the price/importance-to-my-life ratio , then kind of forgot about the issue, moved on to better headphones, and as I was searching for methods to equalize them to "perfection" (in terms of FR) I came across this: David Griesinger claims to have a method to achieve frontal localization by using equal loudness EQ-ing (based on 1/3 octave noise bands) of a calibrated speaker set up in front of you and then of your chosen headphones, with the difference between the two resulting EQ curves to be used for correcting your headphones' response:


And an update about it from his website:


> 1/20/17 Much has happened since the last update. With the help of Nikhil Deshpande, a gratuate student at Rensselaer University, I revived my work on headphone equalization. The software app was re-written to be both easier to use and more flexible. I gave papers on the subject, and wrote preprints for various conferences.
> 
> The ICA conference in Buenos Aires was particularly successful, as I was able to demonstrate the app and the theory behind it to many colleagues, including Jens Blauert and Dorte Hamershoi. They join a long list at this point of people who have succesfully achieved frontal localization without head tracking. They also greatly enjoyed hearing my binaural recordings of performances in halls, both good and not so good.
> 
> ...



I only just found this, so I have no idea if it works. (Not seeing any buzz about it in the forum either, though his name has been mentioned before in the past, before he came out with this.)


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## castleofargh

so it's https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/h...dphones-advanced-tutorial-in-progress.615417/ but made in one app, then used with a centered speaker as reference. I have to say that's pretty cool and could be used to try and match different headphones or other things like that. 
as for the specific frontal matter, I see no reason why it wouldn't work. you don't need to play with ITD when the source is centered so a proper EQ should indeed do most of the job. now my personal reserve on this concerns all the cues that weren't meant to be centered. those ideally would require their own EQ and delays for their respective positions. so it's not even close to a good complete simulation. the purpose here really is a better center "image". 
I happened to try doing this in a way more convoluted way(and now I cry thinking that something like his app existed), when fooling around with HRTF and ended up preferring some 15 or 30° references to my 0° one. it immediately made the center go bad, no question about that, but at least to me, it made the rest more enjoyable than the EQ for "image". 

I wonder what result we could get if we were to calibrate on that while using a crossfeed effect we already like? might be fun.  now, is guessing his email address part of the quest or am I just missing the obvious and it's just davidgriesinger@ whatever?  
-want to try the exe, email me
-my email has changed, check the new one on my website
goes to website
-the old email addresses still work. But I mostly use GMAIL

I've played way too many games not to notice this is a quest. I hope the reward is a sword with +30att. or maybe he doesn't really want strangers to email him? ^_^


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## abm0 (Jun 16, 2017)

castleofargh said:


> so it's https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/h...dphones-advanced-tutorial-in-progress.615417/ but made in one app


Almost, but that variant uses tones, not noise bands, and may not be as good as Griesinger's - we are trying to equalize to listen to broad-band sounds after all.



> I've played way too many games not to notice this is a quest. I hope the reward is a sword with +30att. or maybe he doesn't really want strangers to email him? ^_^


Pay attention to the wording in the quote above - he tells you exactly where to find the address. The same hint is also available at the top of the page, before the updates section begins.


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## castleofargh

OMG, the dress is blue. I said I played a lot of games but forgot to mention how bad I am ^_^. thanks for the cue. I still found the same address without the "h" in his bio so I kind of completed the quest right?
silly silly unfocused me.


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## abm0 (Jun 16, 2017)

castleofargh said:


> I wonder what result we could get if we were to calibrate on that while using a crossfeed effect we already like? might be fun.


_While_ calibrating? Surely you mean _after_ calibrating, i.e. to apply crossfeed _in addition to_ the personal HRTF compensation determined with his method. As I understand it, his app's final curve (with parameter subtract=1) compensates for the particular shape of your head, which should immediately allow you to get a realistic impression if listening to binaural recordings. If you wanted to listen to non-binaural recordings and still get some kind of realistic localization, _then_ you would need the crossfeed on top of that, only in this case the crossfeed would finally be able to do the standardized (non-HRTF-dependent) job it was meant to do. Then yes, this would make it even more exciting, as it could for example give me the benefits I never heard from all the fancy Meier or Isone crossfeed effects, and might improve my experience of most of my music (none of which is binaurally recorded), going beyond the immediate benefits promised by Griesinger who only talks about binaural recordings.


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## castleofargh

no I did mean while, just to try. of course it would go outside binaural use. and of course it wouldn't be my first test. just something for fun, to try and "see" if it would make me go for about the same signature, or if my brain would involve the signal that has crossed over to the other channel. I have some very basic understanding but they're global stuff, I never focused only on getting the center right in proper tests(because my method so far was a mix of measurements and Joe Bloggs's thread so it was really time consuming).
as for crossfeeds being non HRTF dependent, I wish. they're just not based on mine but follow some standard of a head. 
I've tried a bunch of things already for myself and that damn center image that rises up on my forehead, and I remember that when I was still trying to find some HRTF close to mine to generate an impulse for convolution at a given angle, I also tried mixing them with the Waves NX 3D stuff they sell with a relatively bad head tracker. so instead of using the impulses for 30 and 330° to try and get more speaker like directions, I would try with 90° and change the angle within WaveNX. and I tried a few other angle combinations but not a lot because it always resulted in a worst center image than just using from 0 to about 45° impulses from a "close enough" HRTF of somebody else. 

so yes with a much easier way to calibrate the center FR like the tool Mr Griesinger has, I would try that and probably a bunch of other things. and of course once the new Smith Realiser comes out, I plan to test and measure everything I can think of. if only to see if I could have improved on my crossover settings or if I was already at the end of what the tech could do for me. and for that isone and all its settings should be the perfect candidate.


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## ThatJackElliott

abm0 wrote, like a million years ago, "Tried it in Audacity on a Windows XP. Nope. Just as unconvincing as every other crossfeed plugin (including the much touted Meier Crossfeed, which I tried in the form that comes included with foobar2000 on Android). The unchanging fact is: _nothing_ sounds like it's in front of me when I'm listening on headphones."

I stand to be counted among those who have never experienced the sound coming from in front of me instead of between my ears when using headphones with whatever DSP I've  tried. OOYH, Isone, Meier -- whatever. Alas. I would like to get the music out of my head!


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## abm0

ThatJackElliott said:


> I stand to be counted among those who have never experienced the sound coming from in front of me instead of between my ears when using headphones with whatever DSP I've  tried. OOYH, Isone, Meier -- whatever. Alas. I would like to get the music out of my head!


I've had some results in the meantime with David Griesinger's method, but it only fully works in combination with semi-binaural(?) recordings made by him with a special setup, or with some of the crossfeed plugins mentioned above (tried it with Meier in Foobar, and with UAPP's own crossfeed), but in the second case it still depends a lot on the recording you're listening to. (I haven't investigated what qualities of "flat-stereo" recordings work well with the Griesinger Equalization + generic crossfeed effect, so I can't give any pointers on that.)


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## Sweden

ThatJackElliott said:


> abm0 wrote, like a million years ago, "Tried it in Audacity on a Windows XP. Nope. Just as unconvincing as every other crossfeed plugin (including the much touted Meier Crossfeed, which I tried in the form that comes included with foobar2000 on Android). The unchanging fact is: _nothing_ sounds like it's in front of me when I'm listening on headphones."
> 
> I stand to be counted among those who have never experienced the sound coming from in front of me instead of between my ears when using headphones with whatever DSP I've  tried. OOYH, Isone, Meier -- whatever. Alas. I would like to get the music out of my head!



What headphones are you using? 
I find the HD800 to be the optimal headphone for Isone when calibrated. You lose a bit of fidelity, but this headphone has fidelity in spades to it's a good trade (at times).
Isone is however just a poor man's Smyth Realiser when it comes to a realistic out of head experience.


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## ThatJackElliott

I have a few headphones. For live recordings and broadcasts of music festivals and orchestral concerts I use a pair of Bose Quietcomforts. I want maximum isolation so I can concentrate on the live mix without the distraction of the venue's sound. When engineering spoken-word recordings (interviews, etc.) I tend to use my Sony MDR-7506s. For general-purpose listening, classical, mainly, I use a pair of ATH-M50xBLs 'cause they have a funky 70s vibe to the color scheme and sound pretty good for closed-back 'phones. In all cases the headphones are closed-back for sound isolation: either to block outside sounds (traffic while strolling down a street and listening to a ppp passage in an adagio) or to reduce annoyance to others, such as my wife seated next to me who is watching television while I'm listening. At $1,000, the HD800s are out of the question -- that's nearly a month's income for me. 

I'm surprised that after all these years since stereophony was in its early days, with all the advances in psychoacoustics and with today's DSP processing, that this nut hasn't been cracked: processing random stereo recordings so they sound like they are in front of me on headphones. It must be a lot harder than it seems.


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## castleofargh

it's really not. the issue is how each person would ideally need a custom profile. determining that custom custom profile is the issue. with the 3D googles being a hot topic for a few years, many people got forced to think about the issue to offer better than a crappy standards that work great for almost nobody. and having movements involved forced them to stop the kid stuff with crossfeed, and really try to get a hrtf model. one approach I've seen was some work done to make "good enough" models based on a "good enough" scan of the user's head with a cellphone. that's a promising solution.  and with ATMOS being apparently a standard that might survive a few years and be more than a niche like so many others, there is hope for proper stereo on headphones coming our way.
I guess right now nothing beats binaural microphones, real life recording and convolution, but it's not the most consumer friendly approach. which IMO explains why so few solutions are coming out based on it.  but I join you wondering why so few people are interested in solving this once and for all when we have the knowledge and the computing abilities. in a hobby where realistic and neutral is on every noob's lips, we must have quite the selective blindness to pretend like headphone listening of albums made for speakers is fine as it is. I really hope more solutions will come, and at a cheap price.


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## abm0

castleofargh said:


> I guess right now nothing beats binaural microphones, real life recording and convolution


Binaural microphones worn on the same head that will listen to the recording later? Or where does the HRTF come into this? Because no recordings made with binaural microphones on dummy heads have ever sounded frontal to me, ever. A few of them can sound very realistic if I'm told to expect sounds coming from the sides and behind (like in that popular "virtual barber shop" demo), but nothing in them is ever frontal.


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## castleofargh (Nov 23, 2017)

abm0 said:


> Binaural microphones worn on the same head that will listen to the recording later? Or where does the HRTF come into this? Because no recordings made with binaural microphones on dummy heads have ever sounded frontal to me, ever. A few of them can sound very realistic if I'm told to expect sounds coming from the sides and behind (like in that popular "virtual barber shop" demo), but nothing in them is ever frontal.


I meant measured on the final listener. a fully custom solution.
about your issue (and mine), I've  don't remember if I mentioned this here, but I've seen some correlation between the size of the head and how well someone else's HRTF data works on me. I haven't found anything to call statistically significant, but after trying a bunch of the profiles available online, I noticed this head size thing afterward, when I had kept only the ones giving me a reasonably circular "image". so maybe there are some aspects that could be classified in groups of people instead of needing to be fully custom?
as for having the sound in front of us instead of up or down, Mr Griesinger has finished to convince me that the FR of the headphone was the one relevant variable. but that sadly means custom setting one way or another.


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## abm0

castleofargh said:


> maybe there are some aspects that could be classified in groups of people instead of needing to be fully custom?


I certainly hope so. This has occurred to me as well - that maybe "good enough" effects can be obtained for 99% of listeners if we apply one of a few classes of HRTFs instead of using expensive full calibration procedures. Seems like a more mass-marketable/realistic solution than the Realizer or anything involving custom recordings (including the Griesinger method). The people at Toneboosters seem to have thought something along similar lines, as I see they've included only head-size and ear-size controls in Isone Pro. Sadly, they didn't label them with any measuring units so we'll know what size exactly we're tweaking.


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## castleofargh

relevant to our conversation https://www.head-fi.org/threads/smyth-research-realiser-a16.807459/page-97#post-13867967


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## yates7592

Would somebody please be able to upload or send me a link to the free 'Toneboosters IsoneSurround' VST (not the earlier 'Pro' version)? It doesn't exist on the TB website anymore, but it was also included in some of their earlier AllPlugins bundles. Thanks!


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## kalston (Dec 7, 2017)

yates7592 said:


> Would somebody please be able to upload or send me a link to the free 'Toneboosters IsoneSurround' VST (not the earlier 'Pro' version)? It doesn't exist on the TB website anymore, but it was also included in some of their earlier AllPlugins bundles. Thanks!



Hi, it is possible to get it by using https://archive.org/web/ (this is how I got the x64 version since I only ever had x32 version until now). But to save you the hassle I can upload them somewhere or email them to you if you want.

Btw it is very easy to use Isone or Isone Surround system wide nowadays on Windows 10 (can't guarantee it works well and with low enough latency on Win 7) with the free "Equalizer APO" (zero latency and no audio glitches or anything - suitable for gaming/movies/browsing - everything). Heavily recommended!


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## Jose Hidalgo (Jan 31, 2021)

Hi, I see that this thread has been inactive for 3 years now.
Is Isone still "the best thing" for our headphones, or are there better things now ?
I'm looking for binaural / spatialization stuff.
Thanks in advance


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## Lunatique

Jose Hidalgo said:


> Hi, I see that this thread has been inactive for 3 years now.
> Is Isone still "the best thing" for our headphones, or are there better things now ?
> I'm looking for binaural / spatialization stuff.
> Thanks in advance



There have been other plugins that do the same basic function, but they might not necessarily have all the features of Isone (such as simulating different listening spaces or speakers setups). I haven't kept up with this area since I rarely use headphones at my desk these days, and most of the more recent music are mixed/mastered with headphones in consideration, so the drastic panning of past eras is no longer an issue on headphones. However, if you have a lot of older music from past eras in your collection, then you'd still need a high quality natural sounding crossfeed. You can try searching "head related transfer functions headphone crossfeed plugin" and customizing the search to just the last year or so and see if there are newer plugins in that realm.


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## Jose Hidalgo

Thanks for your reply  Yes, there may be more sophisticated solutions now.
I just found about the "Out of your head" software, and the online demo seems to do it for me : https://fongaudio.com/demo/
It's a bit expensive though...


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## Alou

I think toneboosters stop the plugin,is no longer listed in their products!!


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