# iBasso D10. .UPDATES 1st page, with Current Opamp Choices by HiFlight . . . images page 1, 12, 13, 14, 15, 21, 71



## jamato8

The D10 is out! With optical in, Coax in, amp only, dac only or both, a run time of 20 to 30 hours and this time, gain control, it will offer many features on the fly. 

 Sockets, so you can roll opamps and a kit with opamps will come with it. 
*There are a few sensitive chips so always ground yourself before changing opamps to get rid of any static electricity or you will fry the chips. *

 Power Source：Built-in 4.2V 470mAh Li-polymer Batteries or external power supply
 Frequency Response: 17Hz~20 KHz -0.5dB (DAC) 17Hz~100 KHz -0.5dB (AMP)
 Signal to Noise Ratio：97dB (DAC), 104dB (Amp) 
 Crosstalk: 93dB (DAC) 101dB (AMP)
 Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.006%@1kHz/0dB(DAC) 0.005%@1kHz/0dB (AMP) 
 Output power：Up to 100mW+100mW into 32Ω 
 Gain: 3dB/10dB (AMP)
 Battery Life: 20Hours or 30Hours if amp only.
 Battery Charge Time: 6 Hours
 External Power supply: 5V DC
 Recommended Headphone Impedance: 8~300Ω
 Case dimension: 2.2W x 4.1L x 0.8H (inch) 55W x 104L x 21H (mm)
 Weight: 168g or 5.9oz

 Price: $275.00 plus shipping







 The size is just a little bit smaller than my iRiver H140 or 120! This will be great! 

 To further clarify, the D10 is a single unit that can be as a dac an amp or both are used at the same time. The Amp section can be bypassed and you can output to another amp or you can bypass the dac and use just the amp or you can input to the dac and internally the dac connects to the amp and you output as a dac/amp to your headphones.





















 New mini optical from Sysconcept to be used with the right angle adapters. This will keep the optical cord from protruding past the case of the D10 and iRiver H120 or H140.






 Sony D303 with optical out to the D10 and the ESW10 JPN

 Bottom 5 images shot with my Canon 5D II. A great camera that finally gets me back to the feeling of a very fine film camera and at 22mb's an image and over 100mb's in a TIFF, it should. 

 Optical cables from: Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more: MiniPlug to MiniPlug Premium Optical Cable 0.05 to 50 meters email Joseph and describe what you need and he will make up the special length and terminations you need. They are a truly quality service. 

 I should have dusted the D10 and iRiver but frankly I still have the flu and just wanted to get it done.

*1 31 2009*

 Ok, with a little over a week on the D10 now, 7.5 X24, I am hearing some changes. The sound is more open again and better spatial presentation. I hear, or perceive, more air between singers, instruments and just better staging. The transparency has increased and there is more reverb from walls, which gives the impression of a larger venue or feeling of space. Very nice. The dynamics have also improved as noted in speed and impact.

*Post on 3 5 09 by HiFlight on opamps to use.*

 As I do not want to get into subjective "which is best" discussions, I simply ranked them based on treble vs bass balance, or from brightest to darkest.

 My ranking is as follows:

 ADA4841-2
 AD8599
 AD8616
 AD8397
 LMA6643
 AD746
 LTC6241HV (LTC6241 would also work just fine)
 OPA2111
 OPA2604
 THS4032
 OPA2134
 LMH6655
 AD8656
 AD8066 (with AD8532 buffers)
 AD2228
 AD2227

 Widest soundstages were found in AD8066, OPA2111, OPA2604, AD8656 and AD746, respectively.

 Most output power (without buffers)

 AD8397: 320ma
 AD8656: 220ma
 AD8616 150ma
 THS4032 80ma
 LMH6655 80ma

 Opamps that I thought might work but didn't: AD8620, LM6622, LME49720 (LM4562), AD797 (SOIC) OPA627 (OPA 627 initally worked fine, but only for a short period of time. Likely on the very edge of its voltage envelop with a fully charged battery.)


 Note that the AD8397 has built-in buffers, so I would not suggest using additional buffers. This opamp has sometimes been criticized for its highs, but in the D10, it performed really well.

 My recommendations:
 If you have bright phones and/or are a basshead, go with the darker opamps, if you like detail and sparkle, or have dark phones, try the brighter ones.
*Post on 2 8 09 by HiFlight*

 THS4032 with bypassed buffers or with the AD8656 buffers for a little warmer sound. 
 AD8397 bypassed buffers (I am now using this config.) This opamp sounds better in the D10 than many other amps I have tried it in. This opamp has a more distant soundstage, which I prefer over sitting in the middle of the band.
 LTC6241HV with AD8656 buffers
 AD8656 bypassed buffers

 I did not list any opamps that did not sound good in the D10. 

 Lots of good choices now. See previously posted listing, post 439, page 30 of this thread. They are ranked tonally, from light to dark.

*4 7 09 by HiFlight*

 Just to keep up interest, I have a bunch of new opamps and buffers that I have never tried before enroute. For now, my personal D10 choice is: 
 OPA2228 in LR, AD8656 buffers. Like being there!

 And here I thought I was about finished trying out different combinations....Well, the bar just keeps going up. What fun. 

 For those who like the AD8656 for use in LR or buffer sockets, but would prefer a slightly less bright SQ, I found some very good low voltage opamps that perform very well in the D10. 

 As I describe their sound characteristics, it is in comparison to the OPA2228/AD8656 combination. 

 The following combinations differ from the above set mainly in emphasis of the tonal range and soundstage. 

 All of the new opamps are low-noise, low distortion, and quite economical on battery power. 

 The opamps used in LR were the following: 
 LMH6622 (SOIC)
 OPA2350 (DIP)
 TLC2202 (DIP)

 The buffers used for all 3:
 EL8201

 LMH6622/EL8201 sounded most like 2228/8656, but with more brightness/detail. The 6622 is brighter than 2228, but EL8201 is smoother and more liquid than is the AD8656. More the characteristics of the 2228, but in a buffer. Their characteristics matched well. 

 OPA2350/EL8201 also resembled the 2228/8656 combination, but with more detail in the mids. Highs were tamed a bit, lows about the same. Soundstage was wide, but not particularly deep. The soundstage was fairly "upfront". Vocals really sounded superb with this pair of opamps. Those who like detail, but dislike any sense of tonal stridency will very likely enjoy this combo. 

 TLC2202/EL8201 was the most "speaker-like" of the 3. The soundstage was narrower than the reference configuration and the previous 2 combos, much like a crossfeed implementation. It was, however, quite deep. One also got the feeling that the performance was more distant, again, much like listening to speakers. This combo provided a sound signature that does not lose its sense of realism even at reduced volumes I need to spend more time evaluating the highs...some tendency for sibilance from time to time. 

 The OPA2350/EL8201 would lend itself very well to the Sennheiser house sound as as Westone UMs, Atrios, etc. 

 I did try a number of different genres, including a variety of acoustical, vocal, and orchestral. All of the combinations did well with all of the types of music. 

 All music was high bitrate recordings played thru the line-out of my iRiver H120CF. Phones used for trials were Phonaks, Sony F-1, and Yuin G1A. 

 The Yuins were the hardest to drive and took the most volume, but at not time was I maxed out on volume, nor was there any audible distortion at the highest volume levels. 

 I do like the EL8201s better than the LMH6643 buffers personally. I found that they matched well with any LR opamps that I used with them. 

 Again, I want to state that I couldn't really pin down a "best-of-show" as they all sounded good, but with differing nuances of tonal shading and soundstage. It will be, as always, a matter of personal preference. The LR opamps mentioned above also sounded very good with the AD8656 buffers. The differences were mostly in how forward the highs sounded in comparison to the rest of the audio spectrum.


 Addendum: 

 Some worked really well, some not as well. Stellar performers in D10 L-R:
 OPA2350, OPA2228, AD8656, ADA4841-2 and similar-sounding TLC2202, THS4032, LTC6241HV. EL8201 is also worth auditioning in LR as well as buffer use. Very smooth and warm but doesn't mask the highs. 

 Buffers: LMH6655, AD8656, EL8201. Although I had high hopes for the LMH6622, it didn't sound nearly as good to me as the LMH6655 when used as a buffer. The LMH6622 does sound quite lively in LR though. (The 6655 is also serves as the ground opamp in D2 Topkit) 

 TLC2202/EL8201 very battery-friendly! Maybe not the best choice for bright phones. Mucho detail. 
 OPA2350...very good sound, fairly high battery draw...very similar battery requirements to THS4032. Sounds closer to the OPA627 than most any other opamp I can recall having tested. 

 The above suggestions are by no means all-inclusive. They are just the ones that I have spent time with during the past few days and feel that they are worthy of a listen.

 It seems that the D10 circuitry is designed in such a manner that enables many opamps to perform extremely well, assuming minimum supply voltages are met. 



*Review by HeadphoneAddict 2 22 09. Very comprehensive with many comparisons* (middle of page)
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/u...3/index44.html

*Added 2 26 09 Observations and comparisons*

 D10 vs Lisa III with a bit of the Woo 6 mentioned. 

 1st impression of the D10 with the stock opamp and AD8656 buffers compared to the Lisa III is that the D10 is a little more distant and airy sounding. I noticed this also when comparing the Lisa III to the Woo 6, as the 6 was more airy and a little more distant. The Lisa is very, very smooth and more intimate. The Lisa III isn't in your face but closer. It has a good top end with a treble extension that is natural but it doesn't have quite the "live" sound of the Woo 6 or the D10 when live recordings are played. The bass of the Lisa III is a little more pronounced when compared to the D10. Not pronounced in a bad way, just more obvious. It is well controlled on both the D10 and Lisa III with the bass of the Lisa III being a little warmer or fuller. 

 The mids of the Lisa III seem a little richer, maybe a little more forward than the D10. With the D10 having a slightly recessed mid in comparison to the Lisa III, this would add to the impression of a more open or distant presentation. Which one is right? I am not sure but the Woo 6 also presents a little more distant image and the Woo 6 with all of my modification is, IMHO, excellent and the best I have for an amp. The Lisa III is very fine sounding so it is really up to the individual as to what is preferred. Both the D10 and the Lisa III are doing a very fine job. The Lisa III is nice and powerful and drives all my phones with ease. 

 On bass, the Lisa III has more authority. There is more impact. On ToTo live, Africa has real impact with the Lisa III. With the D10 it is good and enjoyable, just not as much overall drive to the deep bass. The upper bass on the Lisa III does not bleed into the lower mids, which is nice, so the amp remains fast sounding. The D10 does not bleed into other frequencies either so again, it remains fast sounding. 

 Overall, there are some areas of the D10 I prefer to the Lisa III. The D10 has more transient speed, which adds more snap to the music. Notes linger as long but the rise in micro dynamics and leading edge just seems faster and with a touch more cleanness. Transient speed on the D10 is exceptional. 

*3 15 09*

 I am coming to the conclusion that the opamps supplied with the D10, those that are stock and inserted, sound the best being very well balanced in all frequencies with no real deficiencies. 

*3 18 09 by HeadphoneAddict on the D10 *

 I want to also chime in that I do love the stock opamps. Like I said before, 95% of my review was done with it stock. I am running a similar setup with the stock buffers but with the LTC6241HV in LR instead of the stock ADA4841-2 due to slightly less RFI from iPhone and possibly slightly more detail or space with the same warm sound. In the D1 the 4841 and 6241 were similar low draw opamps, while the 6241 seemed to offer more detail if moved to the DAC, and in the D2 Viper the 6241 was the "Predator Clone" opamp.

 I also liked the AD8656 with byassed buffers, and my 4th choice is the AD8397 with bypassed buffers. For dark or bassy cans like the Senn IE8 the AD8599 and AD8066 can help fix the headphone's frequency response, but otherwise the majority of cans don't need those.
 __________________

*5 30 09*

 SysConcept has a new cable for the optical from the D10 to a iRiver H120 or H140. It takes quick angle out the back of each so it takes up very, very little room and allows for the use of the remote. There is a 24 hour lead time, which is still very fast, due to the total custom make and time for the epoxy to set up. The price is 59 dollars for this great little custom optical toslink to mini cable. Its a MiniTM.











 SysConcept MiniOp Cable with the iRiver H140, iBasso D10, iBasso P3+.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webbie64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. The D10 searches for input signals - Coaxial, if no coaxial it seeks Optical, if no Optical it seeks USB - and delivers to Aux, if no Aux then through the Amp section to Headphone Out.

 So some of your possible scenarios are:
You have Optical and Aux connected and turn D10 on. You're now using the D10 as a DAC only listening to the Optical input.
As above but also USB connected. You're using it as a DAC only listening to the Optical input but you can also be charging the battery via USB at the same time - if you switch the charge switch on at the back.
You have USB and Aux connected and turn D10 on. You're now using the D10 as a DAC only listening to the USB input but you can also be charging the battery via USB at the same time - if you switch the charge switch on at the back.
You have Optical and Headphone connected and turn D10 on. You're now using the D10 as a DAC/Amp through the connected headphones listening to the Optical input.
As above but also USB connected. You're using it as a DAC/Amp through the connected headphones listening to the Optical input but you can also be charging the battery via USB at the same time - if you switch the charge switch on at the back.
You have USB and Headphone connected and turn D10 on. You're now using the D10 as a DAC/Amp through the connected headphones listening to the USB input but you can also be charging the battery via USB at the same time - if you switch the charge switch on at the back.
I hope that clarifies in sufficient detail.

 Have fun with it - it's a great combo device!

 BTW, I find the Aux output to be considerably less in voltage than my other DACs so you may be pushing the volume control up on your speaker Amp when you are using it as a DAC (but the sound is great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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## digitalfrog

ah great, just bought a D2 over a D3 because of the size and the built-in batteries ;-(
 Oh well, let's see the first review when it's available - thanks for the heads up though !


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## DarKu

This amp/DAC has only ONE drawback, the same drawback that D1 had - the *Amp* section!
 common iBasso even T4 have 130+130mW, D2 Boa have 100+100mW, why the same output for D10? i cannot understand.
 If it would have 250+250mW i will buy two of them in a hearbeat :|


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## burgunder

Exiting news, is the same technical info available for the D3?


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## EFN

This is a very good new for iRiver H120/H140 users. Not many optical in portable DAC in the market now.

 I wish they could have also offer an option for just the DAC only, that would even be better.


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## nv88

Any idea of price? Thoughts on if this will sound more like the D1 or D3?


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## Lil' Knight

I guess it would be around 250-300$.


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## ElEsido

Great, am considering getting one to translate the optical out of my H140 into sound.


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## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a very good new for iRiver H120/H140 users. Not many optical in portable DAC in the market now.

 I wish they could have also offer an option for just the DAC only, that would even be better._

 

If I'm understanding correctly...there is a DAC only option according to the OP.

 If that's true...it will be a hard choice whether to get a DAC only or DAC/Amp combo. I'm after a different DAC for my H140 in the worst way.

 Edit: Hey...those case dimensions are pretty small!


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## scott_d_m

I believe what jamato8 is saying is that the D10 will have a direct line out so you can use the D10 as a dac only option.


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## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scott_d_m* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe what jamato8 is saying is that the D10 will have a direct line out so you can use the D10 as a dac only option._

 

That would make sense...just like the D1. I misconstrued Jamato's wording.


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## Soren84

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This amp/DAC has only ONE drawback, the same drawback that D1 had - the *Amp* section!
 common iBasso even T4 have 130+130mW, D2 Boa have 100+100mW, why the same output for D10? i cannot understand.
 If it would have 250+250mW i will buy two of them in a hearbeat :|_

 

Anyone know how many mW's the amp sections of the P3 Heron and D3 have?

 Thanks,


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## tacitapproval

D3 has 180mW+180mW into 32ohms. I don't know about the P3.


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## burgunder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tacitapproval* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_D3 has 180mW+180mW into 32ohms. I don't know about the P3._

 

Thx a lot for the info.

 To bad the D10 only has a little more than half of that.


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## Punnisher

No usb input on this?


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## Lil' Knight

Should have if it has the same features as the D1.


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## jamato8

It also has the USB. Supposedly the optical and coax in is very good. There have been improvements that have been made over time with the normal learning curve. 

 It is surprising how little mW is really needed to drive most phones. It will be interesting to hear the capabilities of what appears to be a very versatile amp/dac that will be smaller than the D1.


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## musicmaker

If it comes in a DAC only configuration, I'll definitely get one to go with my iRiver. The D1's strength was definitely its DAC. It was great. I didn't really care that much for the amp section.


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## jamato8

It comes as the amp/dac combination. I would imagine the amp section will be much improved if the D3 is any view on what it should sound like.


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## hockeyb213

Should be interesting to see reviews on this amp I remembered the d1 had a great standing when it was around for it's versatility


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## younglee200

noob question, but what is the coax / optical used for in a portable amp? Also, can you do opamp rolling with the D10?


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## Kira Yamato

any pics yet?


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## Feather225

How much D10 will cost?...I don't think they will be too high since Ibasso is always been pretty cheap and quality...


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## chiefroastbeef

Oh wow it's out, beautiful amp I'd say! Priced at $250. Take a look:

 www.ibasso.com/_products/amps/?D10


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## zac_in_ak

that was dirty just plain dirty rick rolled by a fellow head fier what is the world coming to there could have been children present!


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## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chiefroastbeef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh wow it's out, beautiful amp I'd say! Priced at $250. Take a look:

 www.ibasso.com/_products/amps/?D10_

 

you sir are a nasty nasty man; how could you even conceive of such evil
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 and as for the amp; i'll stick with my gamma1 thanks


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## J.D.N

Last i heard it was only going to be marginally more expensive than the D1. 

 Shame they haven't released any pics of it


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## jamato8

The price will be: $275.00 plus shipping.


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## slwiser

Jamato8, do you know how the D10 is going to be different in design and construction from that other project that you are to get a preview amp called fi.Quest? I know the DAC itself is not in the fi.Quest.


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## dazzer1975

excellent stuff, ive been waiting for the d10 for months as I just missed out on the d1 when it stopped production to use with my iriver h120

 I think if the amp section isnt upto snuff, then the dac only will be perfect to use with the iqube or any other amp people have.

 I will be interested to ehar peoples opinions of the amp section and how well it can drive headphones when it comes out.

 Gonna be a tough decision which configuration to go for.

 Unless, the dac/amp combo unit is able to bypass the amp section if wanted?


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## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gonna be a tough decision which configuration to go for.

 Unless, the dac/amp combo unit is able to bypass the amp section if wanted?_

 

Looks like others are making the same mistake I made. The original post's first sentence or two is describing the features of a single unit to be offered. There is only one configuration...the (reputedly $275) model that has an amp and DAC. It is then the user's choice to use the amp only, DAC only, or both at once.

 On a separate note, it would be great if this unit had all connections on the front (which I doubt), and used a mini-toslink optical port.


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## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like others are making the same mistake I made. The original post's first sentence or two is describing the features of a single unit to be offered. There is only one configuration...the (reputedly $275) model that has an amp and DAC. It is then the user's choice to use the amp only, DAC only, or both at once._

 

The op's post is ambiguous, but good to know it can be used as a dac, amp or both.


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## mrarroyo

I should be getting one in about 2 weeks if everything goes well. I am really excited at the improvements achieved since the D1 first came out.

 If the rest of the iBasso product line is any indication this should be a very good product. Time will tell, I can't wait.


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## jamato8

On power, most phones require around 10 to 20mW of power, it is the heavy bass that soaks up current. For most listening, and phones that aren't real inefficient, 100mW's is normally more than enough. Just like speakers, most of the first 5 watts is all that is required and often just a couple of watts. Loud and heavy bass will take more, without a doubt, unless something efficient, which is where I have normally stayed.


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## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I should be getting one in about 2 weeks if everything goes well._

 

If they're actually going to be out in a week....then a bunch of us may have them in two weeks


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## theory_87

Time to move to optical lineout for my iriver =). Is D10 opamp rollable?


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Time to move to optical lineout for my iriver =). Is D10 opamp rollable?_

 

I don't think so. They feel they have optimized the sound. Actually I am tired of rolling opamps and prefer the manufacture to figure it out. I still do some with my new Xin Mini but have it running with a AD8656 and like the sound. 

 Having a small amp/dac with optical like the D10 is exciting to me again. I liked the D1 ok but wished it was smaller and now. . . it is with improvements.


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## mrarroyo

jamato8 I really like the AD8656 in the Mini and in the LE. It has lots of punch and retains an open/airy detail not possible w/ the AD8616. IMO it is also nicer than the AD8397.

 BTW, iBasso confirmed the inputs/ouputs on the D10.

  Quote:


 Hello, Mr.Arroyo,
 Yes, the D10 has USB, optical, coaxial, and AUX inputs.
 Yes, the has a line out function, it can work as a standalone DAC.

 Sincerely
 iBasso Audio


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## jamato8

Yes, done right the AD8656 is the most 3D and musical, to my ears. I have used them on and off for some time. I am using one in the seminewest Mini right now.


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## HiFlight

The D10 is to have sockets for opamp rolling.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D10 is to have sockets for opamp rolling._

 

That would be nice as I know what i would use but it was indicated to me that it was fixed.


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## theory_87

Not necessary ibasso had done all it work to make it the best sound. P3 is a very good example. After caps and opamp rolling, it sound better that sr71a to my ear.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jamato8, do you know how the D10 is going to be different in design and construction from that other project that you are to get a preview amp called fi.Quest? I know the DAC itself is not in the fi.Quest._

 

From what I know the amp section is different than the fi/Quest. Well in fact I know it is different. The D10 operates at a little less than 5 volts and the fi.Quest will operate at much higher voltages and current output.

 Edit:

 Great, they will have sockets on the D10, which they weren't going to do but only certain defined opamps can be used or you will blow the circuit. They weren't going to have sockets but will see how it goes.


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## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iBasso* 
_ Dear Sir,
 Thank you for your interest.....We are going to release the D10 on Friday or Saturday. We will send you an email once we release it.

 sincerely
 iBasso Audio_

 

The (almost) exact day of release according to iBasso.


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## jamato8

The D10 will also come with extra opamps in kit form, like the P3, so you can roll opamps. Pretty nice.
*There are a few sensitive chips so always ground yourself before changing opamps to get rid of any static electricity or you will fry the chips. *


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## wuwhere

Can the D10 be ordered now?


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## jamato8

Saturday. They are testing the first batch right now.


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## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Saturday. They are testing the first batch right now._

 

Thanks Jam.

 Does rolling opamp increase/decrease the power output?


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Jam.

 Does rolling opamp increase/decrease the power output?_

 

Well it depends upon what you use for the opamps. You should be able to increase the power output but of course with a decrease in battery life although there are some opamps that you could use and still get good battery life. You could bypass the buffer with a jumper and just use the opamps. There will be many options. 

 Sounds like fun all over again as with the D1 but with a new and improved model and smaller!


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## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it depends upon what you use for the opamps. You should be able to increase the power output but of course with a decrease in battery life although there are some opamps that you could use and still get good battery life. You could bypass the buffer with a jumper and just use the opamps. There will be many options. 

 Sounds like fun all over again as with the D1 but with a new and improved model and smaller!_

 

Exactly! So the rated 100mW is only applicable to the opamp that is pre-installed. However, swapping a different opamp can increase power with a caveat that it will decrease the battery's life.


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## J.D.N

Its up!

iBasso


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## mimi

Some quick comparisons of the D10 vs the D1

 D10 uses mostly the same chips as the D1, with the exception of the D/A, where the CS4398 in the D1 has been replaced by the WM8740 in the D10. D10 is defintely the more portable package, being half as heavy and abt 50% slimmer. It has some new features not present in the D1 - impedence selection, charging on/off switch.

 Price - $290 vs $230 for the D1. What has gone into the $60 jump?

 Sound quality - we'll have to wait for the 1st reviews - can't wait for Jamato or HiFlight to start the op-amp rolling!

 D10 Specs
 - PCM2906, converts USB into a S/PDIF signal (same as D1)
 - CS8416, DA-receiver chip (same as D1)
 - WM8740, D/A chip (vs CS4398 in the D1 - which one is better?)
 - OP+BUF structure for amplification, (same as D1)
 - 2-Setting Gain Switch for impedance matching (+3/10dB)
 - Dedicated MCU (Micro Controller Unit) to manager inputs, outputs, and functions. (same as D1)
 - Flexible input and output compatibility. It has USB, optical, coaxial, stereo input, line out, and stereo output. (same as D1)
 - Works as a combo or a stand-alone AMP, DAC, USB soundcard (same as D1)
 - Built-in rechargeable Li-polymer battery plays up to 30 hours (30 hrs for AMP, or 20hrs for combo) (D1 wins - 40 hrs for AMP, or 20hrs for combo)
 - Measures 55*21*104mm, and weighs 168g (D10 wins - D1 is nearly 50% bigger and twice as heavy - measures 78*32*120mm, and weighs only 320g)
 - Comes with power adapter, leather pouch, optical cable, USB cable, warranty card, owner's manual, and opamp rolling kit. (includes AD8656*2, LMH6643*2, Dummy adapter*2) - (largely similar, apart from the additional opamp rolling kit for D10)


----------



## EFN

So who'e pulling the trigger? The form factor does seems very attractive for iRiver H120/140 combo.







 * I may be tempted by the slim form factor and battery life because my PCM1793 DAC is rather longish


----------



## mimi

Well, the price has definitely go up by quite a bit - $290 vs $230 for the D1 when it was launched. But hey, if the SQ is good, I'm sure many will spring for such a portable DAC with many input choices.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mimi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the price has definitely go up by quite a bit - $290 vs $230 for the D1 when it was launched. But hey, if the SQ is good, I'm sure many will spring for such a portable DAC with many input choices._

 

I'd say it's still a fair price. The D1 is still available new from AudioPhileChina and they demand $279.00 - considering it is a tried and tested Amp/DAC I am not surprised.

 But if this D10 were to be coming from RSA or Qables or HeadAmp or Meier, even if priced *over* $350 people will still pull the trigger without even blinking. Yes, brand name still play a big role in purcshase decision


----------



## jamato8

The price is $275 not $290. It is a little smaller than my iRiver H140! Woo hoo, what a combo. I hope. :^)


----------



## younglee200

I'll wait for reviews since I have a H120 on order as well


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Last I heard from iBasso in November the D10 amp section wasn't quite as good as the D3 yet, which they felt was their best effort (as does Skylab) - they said they were working on improvements, which may have lead to the decision to socket the opamps and buffers so it would not be limited to how good it can sound.

 I felt the D1 was very good with AD797 or AD743 in the main amp, and AD8397 or LMH6643 buffers, and LTC6241HV or LT6234 in the DAC (and sometimes AD8656 in DAC). It was limited more by it's USB DAC performance, while the optical performance was better (more air and space and ambience and micro-detail).

 I am disappointed that they didn't do I2S from USB receiver to DAC like the D2 and D3 models, and stuck with S/PDIF.


----------



## musicmaker

The price seems fair to me. 

 I really hope the build quality of this thing is good. Of course components fail and that's life, I understand that. However, I've read more than a few people complaining about issues with previous iBasso products. Hopefully iBasso have looked at what has and has not worked with their previous products and made this as robust as practical. 

 I dont mean to sound negative. Its not exactly cheap sending stuff back and forth to China.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am disappointed that they didn't do I2S from USB receiver to DAC like the D2 and D3 models, and stuck with S/PDIF._

 

Email them and ask them why they didn't change. It might be interesting to know. I mostly use optical so I am not very much effected. On the RCA for a coax input it should have been a BNC as that would be a true 75ohm connection, which is what you want for digital reflections. 

 On the sound they stated to me that the soundstage is slightly narrower than the D3 but that is with the stock opamps. What it will be after opamp rolling is anyone's guess.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So who'e pulling the trigger? The form factor does seems very attractive for iRiver H120/140 combo._

 

I think _mrarroyo_ said that he is getting one soon. I think I'll wait for his impressions first.


----------



## ElEsido

I just ordered one. Am curious how it sounds, since it is my first external amp/dac for my h140.


----------



## wolfen68

Got one ordered. Here's to hoping the DAC portion is a winner....


----------



## DeTrun

The DAC-chip of the D10 is the same as the one used in the iBasso D3, which, I've read, sounds great as a DAC-only. I'm looking forward to reading impressions and reviews, I'm curious how the sound signature of the amp sounds.


----------



## jamato8

I think using the dac in optical or the USB but for me the optical should be great. At least I am really looking forward to it. I should be getting one around the middle of next week.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think using the dac in optical or the USB but for me the optical should be great. At least I am really looking forward to it. I should be getting one around the middle of next week._

 


 Now I got to visit sysconcept to pick up a short optical cable that's toslink to miniplug. All my current cables are mini to mini.

 To anyone else thinking of getting a D10 to use with an H1xx...here's a great link:

U-shape Toslink and MiniPlug short cables.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, I have used Sys.concept for a number of years. The short cables started after I asked them to make them shorter and shorter and then to eliminate the outer jacket for a better arc when bending. They are great people and go out of their way to make good quality optical cables to fit your need. I have all the different connections and the right angle adapter is great for keeping the cable close to the back of the amp/dac/source.


----------



## EFN

Duh...I am saving dough for a Lisa III (have to find out for myself). And now this.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I have all the different connections and the right angle adapter is great for keeping the cable close to the back of the amp/dac/source._

 

I use the right angles as well for my "H160/MicroDAC in a bag" rig. My only concern on those is that the extra horizontal length can create some torque on the jacks if you are using it portably. 

 I agree Sysconcept is a great outfit and a true resource to all who aspire to go optical on the move.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the right angles as well for my "H160/MicroDAC in a bag" rig. My only concern on those is that the extra horizontal length can create some torque on the jacks if you are using it portably. 

 I agree Sysconcept is a great outfit and a true resource to all who aspire to go optical on the move._

 


 Yep the right angled toslink adapter is rather huge and the torque pressure have high tendency to snap them off easily. That's why I DIYed my own very short direct U link, less prone to snapping


----------



## mrarroyo

This new Cobra D10 unit looks amazing! I can't wait to put it through its paces.

 The quality of the units continuous to evolve, iBasso is sure coming out w/ lots of new products.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This new Cobra D10 unit looks amazing! I can't wait to put it through its paces.

 The quality of the units continuous to evolve, iBasso is sure coming out w/ lots of new products._

 

And perhaps even a comparison with your D3?


----------



## Libertad

Sweet portable ampness! I was just about to pull the trigger on the D3 good thing i checked their web site^^ I'm looking foward for the review.


----------



## wuwhere

The D10 is perfect for me since it has an optical and coax SPDIF inputs. This would allow me to listen to my DVR which has an optical and coax SPDIF outputs.


----------



## Sasaki

I am so impressed by the size.. that is almost half of my HR portable 2007.
 I hope I can keep my current sys-concept cable without re-caluculate


----------



## nocturnalsheet

got a D3 myself, wondering if the D10 would be a step up to the D3 in dac section.

 looking forward to reading impressions


----------



## Soren84

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tacitapproval* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_D3 has 180mW+180mW into 32ohms. I don't know about the P3._

 

According to iBasso the amp section of the P3 is 200mW+200mW into 32Ohms in stock config, and the battery life can equal the +100 hours of the D3 if the same opamps are used.

 (Answer to my own question at page 1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sasaki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am so impressed by the size.. that is almost half of my HR portable 2007.
 I hope I can keep my current sys-concept cable without re-caluculate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






_

 

smaller yes, but I doubt it will beat the HR dac in sound quality. of course if used dac only and pass onto a nice amp like lisa III mmmmmm madnes. but i'm interesetd in Y1 vs D10 comparisons.


----------



## mrarroyo

Guys lets not start assuming how the D10 sounds or compares w/ other gear until we have had an opportunity to listen to one following burn-in. My D10 and a T4 are supposed to ship out on Monday so I will gladly post impressions.

 If it arrives quick enough I could even take it to the Mini-Meet w/ vorlon1 on 1/24 so he can share his impressions. Although the unit will probably have only 48 - 72 hours of burn-in.


----------



## skydro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On power, most phones require around 10 to 20mW of power, it is the heavy bass that soaks up current. For most listening, and phones that aren't real inefficient, 100mW's is normally more than enough. Just like speakers, most of the first 5 watts is all that is required and often just a couple of watts. Loud and heavy bass will take more, without a doubt, unless something efficient, which is where I have normally stayed._

 

As I understand, Yuin PK1-s are bassy, not so easy to drive earbuds and I listen bass heavy music so I'm better off with D3 Python since it has more power?


----------



## jamato8

The D10 will come with opamps so you can change the output power of the amp section and the sound.


----------



## Pete7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_smaller yes, but I doubt it will beat the HR dac in sound quality. of course if used dac only and pass onto a nice amp like lisa III mmmmmm madnes. but i'm interesetd in Y1 vs D10 comparisons._

 

Why wouldn't it? It's not exactly a big secret that Headroom's products are overpriced. I had the Micro DAC a couple years back and I couldn't tell a difference between it and the DAC in the Emu0404 soundcard that was $100.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I got some answers by email from iBasso regarding the D10. I had to paraphrase some of their replies:

 First, regarding to the sound of the D10 amp section (where I asked if it now sounds better than the D3 since the last report in November). The reply was, "Comparing to the D3, the treble is more extended and the bass is deeper now. You can judge that by yourself. Also, I think the D10 can beat any of our products if using optical or coaxial inputs."

 Second, "Regarding to why we add DIP socket for opamp rolling, because more people request this feature." (i.e. meaning not because the sound needs to be improved.)

 Third, "Regarding to why we dont use I2S for USB, because...if we use I2S for USB, and optical/coaxial need SPDIF, then it must have many electonic switches between them. The size will be bigger, and the sound will be much worse." (because of compromises in the design to make it all fit in a portable)

 I'll let you know what I think when I get mine.


----------



## fierce_freak

I'd love to hear how you think the D10 compares to the Pico in your Basement Rig.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First, regarding to the sound of the D10 amp section (where I asked if it now sounds better than the D3 since the last report in November). The reply was, "Comparing to the D3, the treble is more extended and the bass is deeper now. You can judge that by yourself. Also, I think the D10 can beat any of our products if using optical or coaxial inputs."

 Second, "Regarding to why we add DIP socket for opamp rolling, because more people request this feature." (i.e. meaning not because the sound needs to be improved.)_

 

Sweet!


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pete7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why wouldn't it? It's not exactly a big secret that Headroom's products are overpriced. I had the Micro DAC a couple years back and I couldn't tell a difference between it and the DAC in the Emu0404 soundcard that was $100._

 

Quite true. Just yesterday I asked itobito who used to own a MicroDAC 2006, and he said that the PCM 1793/OPA2134PA DAC he is using now easily match the MicroDAC pound for pound - and that PCM 1793 DAC is only $79 and not even burned in yet (around 4 caps inside).


 On the other hand, that's a bold statement iBasso claimed - about D10 optical prowess. I hope mrarroyo can confim it (DAC wise) next week


----------



## jamato8

The best dac I have is my modified Monica II non oversampling asynchronous dac run on battery power. It will be interesting to compare the the two.


----------



## ElEsido

Sorry for asking suh a noob question: How do you treat the little fellow once you get it before using it on a regular basis? Do you leave it running for some time and on what volume? Are the headphones attached while doing so?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElEsido* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for asking suh a noob question: How do you treat the little fellow once you get it before using it on a regular basis? Do you leave it running for some time and on what volume? Are the headphones attached while doing so?_

 

Yes, you leave the unit on all the time while feeding it music and with a headphone attached so the amp section sees a load. In my case I try to switch the source from optical to coaxial every 24 hours. At said time I also change headphones to something of different impedance. Finally I change the volume setting and gain switch if there is one.


----------



## wolfen68

Here's a question that may not be known yet...but you folks are pretty resourceful....

 There's not much for pictures out there yet, but does anybody have any idea which way the toslink port on the back faces (such as flare upward or flare downward)? The one pic on ibasso's site showing the back has the toslink cap/plug in place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 The D1 had the toslink flare downward so I'm so far assuming the D10 is the same.


----------



## jamato8

The slightly rounded side is down on the D1 so I would think it will be the same but you can always email iBasso.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Duh...I am saving dough for a Lisa III (have to find out for myself). And now this.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

dude, get the lisa III first, its bound to make much more difference to the sound of your already no doubt great sounding rig. I get eargasms daily


----------



## Mikenet

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Third, "Regarding to why we dont use I2S for USB, because...if we use I2S for USB, and optical/coaxial need SPDIF, then it must have many electonic switches between them. The size will be bigger, and the sound will be much worse." (because of compromises in the design to make it all fit in a portable)_

 

I'm not sure there's going to be a big difference between I2S and SPDIF here. In the D3, the PCM2706 is used to recover the clock from the USB data(using some proprietary and unexplained "SpAct" feature feeding a PLL). In the D10, the same architecture is used to recover the clock in the PCM2906, which then re-encodes the data and clock into SPDIF, and the clock is again recovered by the PLL in the CS8416. The CS8416 PLL is clocked only by the SPDIF preambles rather than the entire data stream, and it thus supposedly more jitter resistant. Simply piping the SPDIF preambles across the board shouldn't be that much worse(if at all worse) than piping a raw clock. The clock is even cleaned again by a second PLL, but unless the second PLL has a drastically different loop filter than the first, I'm not sure this presents any advantage(some DACs use a two-PLL architecture, where the second PLL has a much tighter loop filter than the first). 

 In any case, I don't see it being worse than I2S, and it's plausible that it could be better. The PCM2706 and PCM2906 don't show their loop filter responses in their datasheets, so I can't tell if the second PLL in line has any benefit or not.


----------



## Nimrad

Do you guys think this will be for sale in the forum soon? I'm thinking of buying one, but I want to buy it from a private person (preferrably used) so it's a little cheaper and they can help me avoid stupid Norwegian customs 

 BTW: when do I get to post in the sales forum?


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nimrad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you guys think this will be for sale in the forum soon? I'm thinking of buying one, but I want to buy it from a private person (preferrably used) so it's a little cheaper and they can help me avoid stupid Norwegian customs 

 BTW: when do I get to post in the sales forum?_

 

To answer your first question would be pure speculation.Sometimes people sale in a couple weeks,or months,who really knows.
 To answer your second question is ,you must post at least 50 times on Head-Fi before you can post in the for sale section.


----------



## epithetless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To answer your second question is ,you must post at least 50 times on Head-Fi before you can post in the for sale section._

 

...and you must be registered on Head-Fi for a minimum of 30 days.


----------



## DeTrun

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mimi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_- WM8740, D/A chip (vs CS4398 in the D1 - which one is better?)_

 

You ppl probably already knew, but I just noticed that the DAC of the D10 is also used in the Pico. So I assume it is a good DAC.

 The DAC/Amp + digital inputs + AD8656 for more punch, makes me very curious. I'm looking forward to reviews and impressions. (Maybe some comparisons with the Predator, Pico, etc.?)


----------



## jamato8

Yes, it is the top dac and is also used in the D3. I agree that with the AD8656, which is one of my favorites, the sound should be very fine and there would be plenty of power.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

This time I am going to review the D10 as optical DAC amp and as USB DAC amp. I can use optical with my Macbook, iRiver H140, Sony D-EJ2000, and DLO Homedock HD, and for me it is more versatile than a USB only DAC.

 The iBasso D1 optical input it was better than it's USB input, and very good. With AD743 opamps in main and LMH6643 in buffers and LTC6241HV in the DAC section, using optical may have put it above the stock D2 Viper and D3 Python, and closer to the top ranked DAC/amps - but I did my review with just USB DAC since that is all the others had, and many people only had USB on their PC's. Using the optical DAC and the headphone out as a pre-amp, it was as good as the Headroom Micro DAC (line out wasn't quite warm enough). The USB DACs hurt the grade for the D1 and Lyrix which have very good amp sections. When I did a different review of just the Headstage DAC and D1 USB DAC I had found the D1 USB DAC was almost at the same level as the Headstage Lyrix DAC. Very nice but needed more micro-detail air ambience and space (like the D1 optical).


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The slightly rounded side is down on the D1 so I would think it will be the same but you can always email iBasso._

 

To anyone interested, I have confirmed with iBasso that the toslink port orientation is the same as the D1.


----------



## jamato8

Sure, that is always good to know as it helps when ordering from Sys.concept. I need to order a toslink to toslink so I can use the right angle adapters and keeps the cable flat to the back of the amp and iRiver. I like the fact that they now will eliminate the metal ends, though they are nice and come in many colors.


----------



## ElEsido

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ the right angle adapters_

 

Would you mind sharing what type/brand of adapters you use? I also own a H140 and (hopefully) soon a D10, and I'm rather new to using optical connections.


----------



## ElEsido

...and already the D10 is out of stock, according to the ibasso website.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure, that is always good to know as it helps when ordering from Sys.concept. I need to order a toslink to toslink so I can use the right angle adapters and keeps the cable flat to the back of the amp and iRiver. I like the fact that they now will eliminate the metal ends, though they are nice and come in many colors._

 

Is this the adapter?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure, that is always good to know as it helps when ordering from Sys.concept. I need to order a toslink to toslink so I can use the right angle adapters and keeps the cable flat to the back of the amp and iRiver. I like the fact that they now will eliminate the metal ends, though they are nice and come in many colors._

 

Oops! The above is the wrong adapter. It should be this one. Sorry.


----------



## EFN

*wuwhere*:

 Both adapters are correct. You will need the Toslink RA for the D10 side and the Toslink RA Mini on the DAP side (assuming you will be using iRiver H120/140 or PCDPs)


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*wuwhere*:

 Both adapters are correct. You will need the Toslink RA for the D10 side and the Toslink RA Mini on the DAP side (assuming you will be using iRiver H120/140 or PCDPs)_

 

I guess it depends on which one is needed.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oops! The above is the wrong adapter. It should be this one. Sorry.





_

 

One of each is needed. The toslink for the D10 and the mini for the iRiver. The cable will have to have toslink at both ends as the right angle adapters only come in toslink for the termination.


----------



## Kon-Masti

Is the ibasso site working for all you guys? I haven't been able to get on to it all day. I ordered a d10 but I haven't received any confirmation emails or anything yet...


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kon-Masti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the ibasso site working for all you guys? I haven't been able to get on to it all day. I ordered a d10 but I haven't received any confirmation emails or anything yet..._

 

I can, I'm there right now.


----------



## jamato8

I couldn't get on their site either. No indication of any orders being shipped.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElEsido* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...and already the D10 is out of stock, according to the ibasso website._

 

The email they sent me this AM asked me to confirm my address/phone (they had a different phone on my last order) and said mine would ship tomorrow.


----------



## Jaw007

Trying to get to ibasso site you get this-
*Service Unavailable*


----------



## Ypoknons

Chinese New Year is huge on the mainland so they're probably all trying to crowd onto incredibly packed trains to get back to their families for the holidays, letting the office slide a little.


----------



## Jaw007

I totally forgot about the Chinese New Year.They deserve a vacation.
 Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fierce_freak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd love to hear how you think the D10 compares to the Pico in your Basement Rig._

 

Especially since the Pico is almost twice the price. I don't care too much about the case since it would be tethered to my H-120. So the question is, "if the DAC in the Pico and the D-10 are the same, and the D-10 accepts toslink, which the Pico and Predator don't, is the amp so much better in the Pico?" Twice as better?
 If not, this is a no brainer, as long as the D-10 can be acquired within a month of ordering it (out of stock on the website).

 If the amp is decent, the iBasso can also pull double duty with my iMac. Right now, I'm using the HR MicroDac and different portable amps.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

FYI - I moved the basement rig to my living room - easier to get to


----------



## Daetlus

From their website:

 iBasso D10 Cobra
 High performance Stereo DAC and Headphone Amp

 Temporarily Out of Stock!!!


 In for some good reviews.


----------



## jamato8

The amp section is supposed to be better than even the D3, which I consider very good and with the option of rolling opamps and tailoring the sound this thing should be pretty exciting.


----------



## nocturnalsheet

very interesting, shall wait patiently for reviews, if it's better than my D3, guess it time for a upgrade? =D


----------



## Kon-Masti

Just been e-mailed a tracking number!!!!


----------



## littletree76

Chinese New Year is the biggest festival in mainland China, it will start from coming Sunday as New Year eve (25-Jan-2009) when everyone has to return home for family reunion dinner and stretch up to 09-Feb-2009 on 15th day of Lunar calendar.

 So if you order D10 from iBasso right now, expect to receive delivery around Valentine day.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ypoknons* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Chinese New Year is huge on the mainland so they're probably all trying to crowd onto incredibly packed trains to get back to their families for the holidays, letting the office slide a little._


----------



## Kon-Masti

Oh Well, Happy Chinese New Year!

 Edit:...Wait a minute, I've been given a tracking number already so mine must have shipped. Here's hoping it hops out of China superfast on top of a celebratory firework or something.


----------



## Kon-Masti

Does anybody have any thoughts on whether I can *get by* using the D10 to pair with D7000s. Or would I be completely wasting my time. I'm not looking to get 100% out of the Denons right now, just fairly nice sound. 

 I was researching home amps that I was going to go ahead and get. But, some last minute bargains turned up and I opted to get those instead as well as the D10 which a bit of an impulse buy. Any thoughts?


----------



## littletree76

Thank you for your blessing though the New Year festival last only 2 days in my country.

 I suggest rolling opamp once you have received D10 to match with D7000 headphone. I have done opamp rolling with iBasso P3 Heron for AKG K701 headphone, the result is quite satisfactory and the rolled P3 even equal some of desktop amps I have auditioned.

 In case when you could not find appropriate opamps to drive D7000, then consider other home amplifiers.


----------



## Kon-Masti

Thanks littletree, I'll definitely try it.


----------



## theory_87

wondering how will the dac compare to y1 dac.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I got my tracking number this morning.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kon-Masti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anybody have any thoughts on whether I can *get by* using the D10 to pair with D7000s. Or would I be completely wasting my time. I'm not looking to get 100% out of the Denons right now, just fairly nice sound. 

 I was researching home amps that I was going to go ahead and get. But, some last minute bargains turned up and I opted to get those instead as well as the D10 which a bit of an impulse buy. Any thoughts?_

 

Denons do well out of high current SS amps, and most portables drive them well. Synergy is not the same with all of them, and some do a better job than others. The D3 Python is better than D2 Boa for example.


----------



## jamato8

They will have more D10's in the middle of Feb.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They will have more D10's in the middle of Feb._

 


 It kind of makes you wonder how many they had in the first run? They were sold out in less than 2 business days.


----------



## jamato8

I wondered that about another amp they sold out on and they told me they sell a lot in Japan and other countries so as they get better known and their product gets more appreciation, which it seems to get, they sell at greater numbers. I think in general testing the water for a product is also smart.


----------



## younglee200

I'll be ordering the Feb batch. 

 Jamato, once the D10 arrives, would you be kind enough to tell me the distance between the H120/140 and the D10 so I can order the custom right-angle optical cable from sysconcept? 

 It's the toslink-toslink cable I have to order, right? Along with this: 
http://www.sysconcept.ca/product_inf...roducts_id=336


 Thanks


----------



## jamato8

Contact Joseph at Sys.concepts. You need a right angle toslink to toslink and a toslink to mini (for the iRiver). The length is determined by the bend, which is about 3cm tip to tip. The length of the cable is figured out by this. Just tell Joseph you will be using it with an iBasso D10 and an iRiver h120. I also got mine without the metal ends, just heat shrink on each end. He knows the size as I just ordered from him. 

 So you need a right angle toslink to toslink and a toslink to mini and then the cable.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Contact Joseph at Sys.concepts. You need a right angle toslink to toslink and a toslink to mini (for the iRiver). The length is determined by the bend, which is about 3cm tip to tip. The length of the cable is figured out by this. Just tell Joseph you will be using it with an iBasso D10 and an iRiver h120. I also got mine without the metal ends, just heat shrink on each end. He knows the size as I just ordered from him. 

 So you need a right angle toslink to toslink and a toslink to mini and then the cable._

 

Since we don't have an actual D10 to measure the exact distance (yet), I ordered a 4 cm tip to tip cable..since I don't mind a little extra slack. The old D1 was a 2.5 cm tip to tip length to get to the iriver (with the iriver on top).


----------



## jamato8

The D10 is smaller than the D1 so the tip to tip will be less than the 3cm tip to tip the D1 required. The shorter the better for me. I want it to stay within the contour of the body and not stick out.


----------



## EFN

Anybody received their D10 yet? I am dying to see how the D10 looked when piggy-backed to the H120/H140


----------



## jobski

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *younglee200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll be ordering the Feb batch. 

 Jamato, once the D10 arrives, would you be kind enough to tell me the distance between the H120/140 and the D10 so I can order the custom right-angle optical cable from sysconcept? 

 It's the toslink-toslink cable I have to order, right? Along with this: 
Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more: Adapter - Toslink to MiniPlug Angled 90deg.


 Thanks_

 

+1 to this, i also need an optical cable for h140 and d10. I need measurements so i could order the cables at the same time when the d10 is available again


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody received their D10 yet? I am dying to see how the D10 looked when piggy-backed to the H120/H140_

 

lemme see, it just became available Saturday. ordered that night, shipped today, nah...


----------



## jamato8

I have ordered another optical cable to use the two right angle adapters I already have and keep the cable close to the body. 

 I should have a D10 in 2 days, I think. I have high hopes.


----------



## nsx_23

Hmm, I think I may well pick up a D1 whilst I'm in Hong Kong (They're selling as Mini Audio MAD-05 here). 

 I wonder just how much of an improvement this is over the D1.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

D10 is supposed to be a noticeable improvement over a stock D1.

 But change the D1 opamps and it will sing! Put some AD743 or AD797 opamps in the D1 with a 2:1 adapter (must be a small adpater with no overhang on the edges, HiFlight makes them), and with AD8397 or LMH6643 or LMH6655 in the buffers, and an LTC6241HV in the DAC.


----------



## brandnewgame

Anyone know how large it is compared to its brother the D2 (non-Viper)? It's my only point of reference on portable amps at the moment.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brandnewgame* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know how large it is compared to its brother the D2 (non-Viper)? It's my only point of reference on portable amps at the moment._

 

Just go to iBasso website and compare the sizes they list.


----------



## brandnewgame

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just go to iBasso website and compare the sizes they list._

 

D'oh! Thanks, I should have looked.


----------



## J.D.N

So just to keep the speculation machine churning while people wait, what's the odds of iBasso extending even further to produce a desktop amp and/or portable/desktop DAC only?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *J.D.N* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So just to keep the speculation machine churning while people wait, what's the odds of iBasso extending even further to produce a desktop amp and/or portable/desktop DAC only?_

 

I would say they have learned much and that it would be a very possible future plan.

 My D10 should be here today.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My D10 should be here today._

 


 I got a DHL tracking number two days ago...but it still comes up as a no-show if you try to track it. I have no idea when to expect mine.


----------



## trickywombat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brandnewgame* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know how large it is compared to its brother the D2 (non-Viper)? It's my only point of reference on portable amps at the moment._

 

I entered the dimensions in sizeasy.com for your convenience

Sized Up: iBasso D10 vs Ibasso D2 Boa


----------



## jamato8

Hey, Hey! It has arrived. Comparing its size to the D1 it seems like about a third the size. All that electronics and swapping ability in one small box, Woo Hoo.. . 

 Man for all this can do, optical, coax, USB etc, this is small.

 It is also in a flat black, no more fingerprints! Nice.


----------



## Mikenet

Looks like DHL tried to deliver mine an hour ago, but says no one was home...
 ...but I was sitting right here!

 The joys of apartment buildings.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mikenet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like DHL tried to deliver mine an hour ago, but says no one was home...
 ...but I was sitting right here!

 The joys of apartment buildings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I would get on the phone.

 The size is almost the same as the iRiver H120/140. What a match up! Optical from a hard drive right into the D10 and a really small package. 

 And the sound, well more to come.

 I am actually surprised at how good this sounds. I expected it would sound like the D3 or there about but it is a little warmer and very natural sounding with good stage depth. . . well I need to let it burn in.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would get on the phone.

 The size is almost the same as the iRiver H120/140. What a match up! Optical from a hard drive right into the D10 and a really small package. 

 And the sound, well more to come.

 I am actually surprised at how good this sounds. I expected it would sound like the D3 or there about but it is a little warmer and very natural sounding with good stage depth. . . well I need to let it burn in._

 

Good stuff. Guess I'll order in the next batch.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got a DHL tracking number two days ago...but it still comes up as a no-show if you try to track it. I have no idea when to expect mine._

 

About 3pm 1/23 in china was 5am today for me when mine took off on de plane. It should land in the USA this afternoon, so maybe I'll have it by Monday or Tuesday.

 Actually, it left the Hong Kong hub about 7:30PM their time, and they are what about 15 hours ahead? Anyway, it left there about 9 hours ago I think.


----------



## vkvedam

Well what am I waiting for, some pics and a few burnt in impressions from jamato8.


----------



## jamato8

I just got a Canon 5D II, with almost twice the resolution of my 5D so I will see what I can do. :^)

 The kit they send is a very nice touch. Where some places charge more with the D10 you get 2 different opamps (4 total) and one set of adapters that can be used to eliminate the need for the buffers. There is also an allen wrench so you can open the case. Nice.


----------



## HiFlight

I have setup the following configuration in my D10: 
 AD8656 in LR, and the supplied iBasso dummy buffers in the 2 buffer sockets. The AD8656 is also one of my low-voltage favorites, and seems to be a stellar performer in the D10. I can live with this configuration and find it unlikely that other opamps will be a significant sonic improvement. 

 The D10 soundstage gives me the impression of a subtle crossfeed implementation, and does not give the "between the ears" impression that many headphone amps deliver. I find that the soundstage is rather "in front" with the AD8656. With the ADA4841-2 and buffers, it was a closer soundstage. Imaging with both is quite good. Overall, the sound is somewhat speaker-like rather than typically headphone. 

 I also tried the D10 with my IE8s and Images. I will have to turn down the bass when using my IE8s. Lows are stronger than in my previous iBasso amps, at least with the IE8s. 

 I did have to resort to high-gain when listening to my RS-1s, but the amp handles them very well. I could always re-install the buffers, but still prefer the bypassed sound. I am not sure how well this combination could drive something like the Senn. HD650s. Would probably need the AD8656 and the LMH6643 buffers to get the horsepower for them. Naturally, battery life would be shortened. 

 The sound from this configuration thru the DAC is superb, probably better than any of the other portables I have heard. The sound is very natural, hard to put a label on it. Just sound very realistic and extremely well balanced. The amp section is better than the stock D1. Nothing is lost when inputing thru the DAC and the internal amp. I can't see any big reason to use it as a standalone DAC. There seems to be no shortage of power at all. I am using low gain and about 10 o'clock position on volume control for a very realistic level of sound. 

 I am, at the moment, using my Sony F1 headphones and they seem to be a very good matchup. 

 Due to the low supply voltage to the opamp sockets, there are relatively few opamps that will work well in the D10, however the upside is that those that do work are great sounding opamps!

 I find that soundstage and imaging seem to be enhanced by using the dummy buffers, as long as the headphones used are relatively efficient.

 I will have to say that based on my experience with the D10 so far that iBasso has developed a product that both cosmetically and functionally is right up there with the best portables.


----------



## brandnewgame

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The sound from this configuration thru the DAC is superb, probably better than any of the other portables I have heard._

 

With you also owning an iQube let me be the first to say HOT DAMN!


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brandnewgame* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With you also owning an iQube let me be the first to say HOT DAMN!_

 

With the configuration that I am running, the D10 does not in any way give ground to my iQube! Although perhaps this is a trite expression, I do feel the D10 to be more musical, and believe that I can listen to it for longer periods of time without the feeling that I am listening to an amp.

 I forgot to mention in my previous post that the D10 sounds absolutely stunning when feeding it from the optical output of my iRiver!


----------



## jamato8

Not much I can add to HiFlights review. With the ESW10 the sound is, . . . damn good. Clean and solid. The D10 has been worth waiting for and I love the finish they have gone to for this as I can tell that it will be very well wearing and it looks good.

 I will have to do some comparison with my Monica II dac but I can tell right now she may have a tough run of it.


----------



## brandnewgame

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the configuration that I am running, the D10 does not in any way give ground to my iQube! Although perhaps this is a trite expression, I do feel the D10 to be more musical, and believe that I can listen to it for longer periods of time without the feeling that I am listening to an amp.

 I forgot to mention in my previous post that the D10 sounds absolutely stunning when feeding it from the optical output of my iRiver!_

 

Wow, this is a definite buy for me


----------



## nhat_thanh

HiFlight for now even without fully burn-in yet, how much the D10 better than D3 (dac/amp combination)? 
 It seems like D10 is a bit warmer than D3 from your current configuration


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nhat_thanh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HiFlight for now even without fully burn-in yet, how much the D10 better than D3 (dac/amp combination)? 
 It seems like D10 is a bit warmer than D3 from your current configuration 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, I would say that the D10 is a bit warmer, with a more intimate soundstage. I have only spent time with the AD8656/bypass configuration, as I changed to it right after receiving the amp. I will later try all configurations as well as the AD8616, which should give quite long battery life. 

 But for now, I really like the sound of this configuration. My least favorite is the IE8.. perhaps it is an impedance difference caused by bypassing the buffers, but my Images sound better between the 2 IEMS. The Sony F1 is outstanding!


----------



## immtbiker

New kid on the block, and he seems like a nice gentleman who plays nicely with the other kids. This is good news.

 How is the build quality? Is it up there with the Pico and Predator, or a slight step down?

 Also, interested in seeing what burn-in brings to the table.

 Thanks for your impressions guys.

 My 2 H-120's eagerly await your assessments.


----------



## jamato8

Well Ron has had his open. Now I will have to go and open mine. On the outside, the quality is as good as anything else in the top amps. 

 What a sound. . . . And what a pair with the H140 and my 120gb hard drive I installed. Now that is some tunes on the move. I have two 140's with the 120gb drive now and it is sweeet.


 Ok, good shiny solder joints, very good quality chips, well the whole thing has good quality components. Looks top notch to me and I have built a lot of stuff but only a few things this small.


----------



## wuwhere

Hope the RFI is a no show.


----------



## HiFlight

There are LOTS of tiny things inside! Both top and bottom of the gold-plated board.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are LOTS of tiny things inside! Both top and bottom of the gold-plated board._

 

There you go folks! Lots of tiny things and by golly, I would have to agree, I just couldn't find the words. thanks Ron! :6)

 Ok, now to count them, I will be right back.


----------



## immtbiker

Hate to sound trite, but, especially going out to Mr. Amato: "Pictures please".

 Utilize your incredible talents to feed the needy, tired, poor masses.


----------



## jamato8

I got to warm up that 5D II, what a camera. Images of such quality I don't even remember from my best film days but at 23mb for each image in RAW they should be. When converted to a TIFF they end up around 100mb's.


----------



## mimi

HiFlight, jamato8, thanks very much for the initial impressions. I understand that it's still early days, but any prelim thoughts on how the D10(stock and rolled) compares with the D1 in a AD743/6643/6241 config?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mimi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HiFlight, jamato8, thanks very much for the initial impressions. I understand that it's still early days, but any prelim thoughts on how the D10(stock and rolled) compares with the D1 in a AD743/6643/6241 config?_

 

Pretty tough call, as the modified D1 was quite good, especially thru the digital inputs. 

 I think the soundstage and imaging of the D10 is better and the amp section circuitry has been improved considerably in the D10. 

 Overall, with my source and phones, I would have to say that I think the D10 is the winner, as it just seems to have more of that very elusive quality called "realism"!

 That is probably more a psychoacoustic property than one that can be measured. 

 I would surmise that on the testbench, there would be very little difference in the measurable specifications.


----------



## trickywombat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mikenet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like DHL tried to deliver mine an hour ago, but says no one was home...
 ...but I was sitting right here!

 The joys of apartment buildings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's a DHL thing. It's happened to me many times with them. There's a reason why they're shutting down their US operations. Get on the phone and get them to do it right.


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, the D10 to me, sounds quite a bit different and my D1 has all Black Gates and the good opamps. The D10 to my ear, is faster, more dynamic has better bass and really captures the soul of the music. 

 Did I read musical some where and realism? It has it in spades. 

 I am listening on my Ed. 9's right now and it is pure entertainment.






 I know it is there somwhere. . .


----------



## mrarroyo

Since many of you have been asking for pictures and my friends (jamato8 and HiFlight) are too busy listening to the new and may I add WONDERFULLY sounding D10 here are some shots. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 FYI, my unit arrived today and in addition to the D10 iBasso sent me a T4, so you will see both on the picture. I have also included a D3 as a size comparison.

 Right now the D10 and the T4 are burning in and I have kept the D10 in stock configuration. I do so so I can learn how the stock unit sounds. I took a quick pick using a Senn PX100 w/ both the D10 and the T4. This was done w/o any burn in and well ... the D10 is an amazingly good sounding unit. Unfortunately the T4 by comparison is not as good. However lets keep in mind the cost differences.

 I will say that both my wife and I were extremely impressed by the T4 size factor. Also by the two color led lights indicating it is being charged (red led) as well as in use (blue led). Pretty cool if you ask me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Following the size comparison pictures (3) I then opened up the D10 and took a picture of the board top and the board bottom. Hope these 5 pictures appease your all.


----------



## jamato8

Holy moly, yours had a little one!


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




_

 

It's got a plug in battery with a molex connection! It looks like battery changeout would be easy if you can find the correct replacement.


----------



## immtbiker

Jamato8, you are a true Head-Fier!


----------



## mrarroyo

And it happened right before my eyes!

 The main op-amp is ADA4841, you can read about it at: http://www.analog.com/static/importe...1-1_4841-2.pdf

 The buffers are using AD708 and you can read about it at: http://www.selectronic.fr/includes_s...ce/AD708JN.pdf

 Both the ADA4841 and the AD708 were the installed op-amps the D10 arrived with. The box also include various op-amps to roll as well as a wrench to remove the 4 bolts on the end plates.


----------



## mrarroyo

I am hoping to buy from erikzen his iRiver H120. Then off to HiFlight it goes to install a 32Gb CF card as well as a high capacity battery. With the mods it would be a great match w/ the iBasso D10 as a higher end portable unit.


----------



## EFN

Hey Jama, you dissapoint me, with an EOS 5D in hand and just ONE pic? how about some f2.8 Macro Shots with the H140+D10 Piggybacked together?

 * Now I know where all those eBay H140 gone to
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





*




 You guys are killing me. But with a $600 hole in my wallet (Lisa III), I think it will take time before I can grab a D10 or something......


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys are killing me. But with a $600 hole in my wallet (Lisa III), I think it will take time before I can grab a D10 or something......_

 

i give it 2 more days


----------



## Signal2Noise

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...
 You guys are killing me. But with a $600 hole in my wallet (Lisa III), I think it will take time before I can grab a D10 or something......_

 

Send the Lisa back. Get the D10. Buy us all beer with the rest of the money you saved.


----------



## jamato8

I like dark beer, I don't care what kind, surprise me. :^)


----------



## EFN

...you guys are evil.....


 I am off to the cinema...


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since many of you have been asking for pictures and my friends (jamato8 and HiFlight) are too busy listening to the new and may I add WONDERFULLY sounding D10 here are some shots. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 FYI, my unit arrived today and in addition to the D10 iBasso sent me a T4, so you will see both on the picture. I have also included a D3 as a size comparison.

 Right now the D10 and the T4 are burning in and I have kept the D10 in stock configuration. I do so so I can learn how the stock unit sounds. I took a quick pick using a Senn PX100 w/ both the D10 and the T4. This was done w/o any burn in and well ... the D10 is an amazingly good sounding unit. Unfortunately the T4 by comparison is not as good. However lets keep in mind the cost differences.

 I will say that both my wife and I were extremely impressed by the T4 size factor. Also by the two color led lights indicating it is being charged (red led) as well as in use (blue led). Pretty cool if you ask me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Following the size comparison pictures (3) I then opened up the D10 and took a picture of the board top and the board bottom. Hope these 5 pictures appease your all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	

























_

 

I need a gauge how it sound. Any comparison to SuperMicro, reference or sr71/a for the amp section?


----------



## nc8000

I may have missed it, but is the D10 able to charge from a usb port or only from the supplied wall charger ?
 I guess I'll have to order one in february to replace my D1.


----------



## mimi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pretty tough call, as the modified D1 was quite good, especially thru the digital inputs. 

 I think the soundstage and imaging of the D10 is better and the amp section circuitry has been improved considerably in the D10. 

 Overall, with my source and phones, I would have to say that I think the D10 is the winner, as it just seems to have more of that very elusive quality called "realism"!

 That is probably more a psychoacoustic property than one that can be measured. 

 I would surmise that on the testbench, there would be very little difference in the measurable specifications._

 

Thanks HiFlight. Were your impressions based on the optical in? Is the USB in the D10 a significant step up from the D1?

 Based on mrarroyo's photos, looks like Ibasso did away with the need for opamps in the DAC portion. Man, this unit is tiny! Don't suppose the D10 has any space for opamps that require single-to-dual adaptors, e.g. AD743s?


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may have missed it, but is the D10 able to charge from a usb port or only from the supplied wall charger ?_

 

So far, I haven't seen *any* amp/dac combo charges from the dac port. Since most of these amps, Predator, Pico, Duet (doesn't use rechargeable), etc. can be used as a DAC only, feeding into another amp, the DAC circuitry must be totally isolated from the charging circuitry. Also, the single ended and dac inputs need separate burn-in time.

 On a different note, the iRiver's are an older technology, and unfortunately cannot be charged from the same USB input that is used for downloading songs. This makes it more difficult on the road, where I can use my laptop's USB port to charge most of my accessories (Blackberry, Bluetooth, camera, and so on).


----------



## bpfiguer

Quote:


 On a different note, the iRiver's are an older technology, and unfortunately cannot be charged from the same USB input that is used for downloading songs. This makes it more difficult on the road, where I can use my laptop's USB port to charge most of my accessories (Blackberry, Bluetooth, camera, and so on). 
 

You can charge the iRiver H1X0 player using the miniSync cable (miniSync - H140 Retractable Cable / iRiver H140 Retractable Cable / H140 USB Cable / iRiver H140 USB Cable)


----------



## J.D.N

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may have missed it, but is the D10 able to charge from a usb port or only from the supplied wall charger ?
 I guess I'll have to order one in february to replace my D1._

 

Am i completely missing where the power adapter would be plugged in? 

 From the rear planel it looks like you swap between using the USB as DAC in or for charging purposes: 






 And the front just has outputs/input.


----------



## sadhanaputra

I think all iBasso USB/DAC charge from the USB port..





 The D3 also doesn't have any port for charging.





 I know for sure that my D2 Boa charges from the USB port. And I can use it while it's charging (though I'm not sure if that's good practice).


----------



## r3dx

@sadhanaputra
 D3 doesn't have any charging circuits bro.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 it uses 5 AAA batteries...


----------



## sadhanaputra

That could be a very good reason, yeah..


----------



## mrarroyo

The D10 is charged via a wall wart w/ a cable terminated to an USB mini which plugs unto the back of the D10.

 UPDATE ON SOUND FOLLOWING 14 HOURS OF BURN IN!

 The change is profound, this IMO is very different in that ussually a change of this maginitude takes much longer. As a matter of fact I found the T4 improved more than the D10 w/ the +/-14 hours of burn in. My theory is that the T4 has smaller caps and simpler circuit and thus it has taken much less time to burn-in.

 My other theory is that both units will still take 200 hours of burn in but will be all over until they stabilize. As far as comparison I am headed to meet w/ vorlon1 w/ a bunch of other amps to see ...

 More to come, but for now I leave you w/ a picture of the burning in area.


----------



## immtbiker

I stand corrected. 
 Thanks for the info, guys.

 In this picture on the iBasso website, I saw a hole with a power icon next to it, and thought it was the charging port (next to volume knob) only to see in Mr. Ayorro's pictures that it is a dual color led for charging and power.

 See here what I mean:







 Also, interesting about the H-120/140 USB option. Gotta ask questions. Glad I woke up this morning


----------



## jamato8

The H120 or 140 can be charged from adapters bought inexpensively on ebay that put out a connector that fits the iRiver. Or you can modify your iRiver internally by adding one diode and a jumper wire and taking the voltage from the USB to the charging circuit and you can recharge via the USB but the advantage of using the normal charging is of course that you can listen at the same time. 

 Anyway I will get some shots of the iRiver and D10 up today.


----------



## jamato8

I should have dusted the D10 and iRiver but frankly I still have the flu and just wanted to get it done.


----------



## Jaw007

Wow those pic's are fantastic.
 Where did you get that optical cable?


----------



## nhat_thanh

Thanks for the pics jamato 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 iRiver and D10 looks really amazing


----------



## jamato8

The cable is from Sys.concept. I have used them for years. They will make any length you want. I have one coming that doesn't have the metal ends, just heat shrink so it will be even shorter.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The cable is from Sys.concept. I have used them for years. They will make any length you want. I have one coming that doesn't have the metal ends, just heat shrink so it will be even shorter._

 

Thank you for the information,I love those blue metal ends, for home use they would be very nice.


----------



## mrarroyo

Yes you can find the optical that jamato8 uses at: Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more: MiniPlug to Toslink Premium Optical Cable 0.05 to 50 meters

 Now, who is going to sell me an iRiver?


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes you can find the optical that jamato8 uses at: Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more: MiniPlug to Toslink Premium Optical Cable 0.05 to 50 meters

 Now, who is going to sell me an iRiver?_

 

Thank you for the link to those fine cables.
 I'm going to order some in various lengths.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for the link to those fine cables.
 I'm going to order some in various lengths.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The order form just shows 1 meter and up. In the special instructions you put the length, which is measured tip to tip. You can get any combo you want in mini to mini or toslink to toslink or tosink to mini and they have a bunch of great colors in the metal ends. I like purple. Joseph is a great guy to work with and honest.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The order form just shows 1 meter and up. In the special instructions you put the length, which is measured tip to tip. You can get any combo you want in mini to mini or toslink to toslink or tosink to mini and they have a bunch of great colors in the metal ends. I like purple. Joseph is a great guy to work with and honest._

 

Thanks for the additional information man this is like a candy store for accessory cables,and in different color ends.I like the purple also.


----------



## EFN

Jamato, now we're talking. Superb photos, just how i would expect a Canon EOS 5D would produce.

 Now do us a favor, sit there don't go anywhere and tell us how'd they sound like


----------



## jamato8

5D II not 5D. The 5D II has 22mp vs the 12 of my 5D and the tonal quality, resolution and colors of the 5D II are a step up from the 5D though I still like my 5D.


----------



## vkvedam

Well even though I am quite a dSLR enthusiast, right now I am after the burnt impressions of you people.


----------



## Sasaki

I got mine today!

 Yes.. this quite smaller than D1 or HR portable, even smaller than SR71A. Really impressive for such a DAC/Amp combo with optical input.

 Digital setup, iHP140 and D10 (Sys concept Opt cable)





 Sys-concept cable with angled adapters .. I am using a cable which was calculated for HR portable2007 , but I need another order for even shorter one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Legacy setup, iMod and D10 (ALO SXC LOD)





 This comes with a USB capable AC adapter to charge.





 As for sounding, I just took a quick listening and I think this is neutral and less colored. (with default opamp)
 I need more burnt-in anyway ..


----------



## jamato8

Well the D10 is sounding very articulate. By this I mean the the music is beautifully controlled and yet allowed to flow. The bass notes in no way get involved in other frequencies and go deep and tight. The highs are clean and detailed. 

 More time is needed as I want to have the unit fully formed/burnt-in before I go on and on in either a positive or negative way. As for now I am impressed. I have not even been missing my Woo 6 and I love tubes.

 I am still using the default opamps but am itching to try my favorite AD8656, which are the same that I use in the Xin Mini.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sasaki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine today!

 Yes.. this quite smaller than D1 or HR portable, even smaller than SR71A. Really impressive for such a DAC/Amp combo with optical input.

 Digital setup, iHP140 and D10 (Sys concept Opt cable)






 Sys-concept cable with angled adapters .. I am using a cable which was calculated for HR portable2007 , but I need another order for even shorter one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Legacy setup, iMod and D10 (ALO SXC LOD)





 This comes with a USB capable AC adapter to charge.





 As for sounding, I just took a quick listening and I think this is neutral and less colored. (with default opamp)
 I need more burnt-in anyway .._

 

Fantastic!


----------



## HiFlight

I think I am sticking with the AD8656/bypassed buffers configuration for awhile. It sounds great.


----------



## wuwhere

Nice pics! Can't wait for them to return so that I can place my order.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I am sticking with the AD8656/bypassed buffers configuration for awhile. It sounds great._

 

I just switched to that about 10 minutes ago. No comment yet. I do like the default opamps. What else have you listened to or compared to?

 Yeah, the 8656 sounds great. Guitars on many Grateful Dead live albums is stunning.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now, who is going to sell me an iRiver?_

 

There is a semi defictive H120 (seems it needs a new battery) going at UK eBay at the moment. Current bid is about £6.

IRIVER IHP120 H120 MP3 PLAYER 20GB - FAULTY H100 iH100 on eBay, also, MP3 Players, Consumer Electronics (end time 25-Jan-09 18:18:34 GMT)


----------



## sadhanaputra

So it's confirmed that the D10 will be (is!) charged through the USB port, right?
 That means it can be used while being charged 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, how does using optical cable make any difference to the SQ? It's just digital data, it's not like the cable can add warmth or detail or something.. Right?

 Spank me if my question is off-topic


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a semi defictive H120 (seems it needs a new battery) going at UK eBay at the moment. Current bid is about £6.

IRIVER IHP120 H120 MP3 PLAYER 20GB - FAULTY H100 iH100 on eBay, also, MP3 Players, Consumer Electronics (end time 25-Jan-09 18:18:34 GMT)_

 

Hey thanks for the link buddy. I think this can be a great candidate for mrarroyo. I can fix the player for him because I do have spare stock battery and CF adapter. From the description, the problem with the headphone out is easily fixable/replacable for DIY junkie. 

 mrarroyo, YGPM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT:
 The seller does not ship overseas. UK only. So this may not work after all


 Too bad


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey thanks for the link buddy. I think this can be a great candidate for mrarroyo. I can fix the player for him because I do have spare stock battery and CF adapter. From the description, the problem with the headphone out is easily fixable/replacable for DIY junkie. 

 mrarroyo, YGPM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT:
 The seller does not ship overseas. UK only. So this may not work after all


 Too bad_

 

My mother-in-law lives in UK so I could probably bid for it and have it shipped to her. I have just emailed the seller asking about this.
 I can't use it myself as all my music (>100 GB) is in 320kb aac.


----------



## jobski

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sasaki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine today!

 Yes.. this quite smaller than D1 or HR portable, even smaller than SR71A. Really impressive for such a DAC/Amp combo with optical input.

 Digital setup, iHP140 and D10 (Sys concept Opt cable)





 Sys-concept cable with angled adapters .. I am using a cable which was calculated for HR portable2007 , but I need another order for even shorter one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Legacy setup, iMod and D10 (ALO SXC LOD)





 This comes with a USB capable AC adapter to charge.





 As for sounding, I just took a quick listening and I think this is neutral and less colored. (with default opamp)
 I need more burnt-in anyway .._

 

With that length of cable, are you able to put the amp and h140 together at the center?


----------



## brandnewgame

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a semi defictive H120 (seems it needs a new battery) going at UK eBay at the moment. Current bid is about £6.

IRIVER IHP120 H120 MP3 PLAYER 20GB - FAULTY H100 iH100 on eBay, also, MP3 Players, Consumer Electronics (end time 25-Jan-09 18:18:34 GMT)_

 

Nooo! I've been watching that auction for six days


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brandnewgame* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nooo! I've been watching that auction for six days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

oops .....


----------



## vkvedam

Where is Larry, we haven't heard from him on this thread for a while now. Is he busy with burning the midnight oil over the D10?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oops ....._

 

ooops indeed


----------



## brandnewgame

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oops ....._

 

You were only trying to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It would suck being in a bidding war against another Head-fi'er though since sound quality is worth a pretty penny.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ooops indeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks again for your amp help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm on here irregularly and often can't finish a most helpful conversation.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brandnewgame* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You were only trying to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It would suck being in a bidding war against another Head-fi'er though since sound quality is worth a pretty penny._

 

Seems you will not have to worry about me bidding against you. The seller did reply that it was ok for me to bid as long as shipping went to UK but the way he has said up the auction eBay prevents me from bidding because my registered address is in Denmark.


----------



## brandnewgame

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems you will not have to worry about me bidding against you. The seller did reply that it was ok for me to bid as long as shipping went to UK but the way he has said up the auction eBay prevents me from bidding because my registered address is in Denmark._

 

Woohoo! I'm still in the running


----------



## Raez

Can I return my D3 that I bought in December? Lol.


----------



## jamato8

Wooo, that iRiver is a deal. I fix these all the time. . .. .


----------



## brandnewgame

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Raez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can I return my D3 that I bought in December? Lol._

 

Lots of people are looking for a USB only amp/dac combo second hand


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Raez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can I return my D3 that I bought in December? Lol._

 

Put it in the FS thread. I almost bought a D3 last year. Then I read that iBasso was working on the D10 with an optical and coax input. So I waited for it.


----------



## brandnewgame

Damn, outbid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well, I still have some iMod DIYing to do before I can afford both an iRiver and the D10.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wooo, that iRiver is a deal. I fix these all the time. . .. ._

 

So it ended at £49. Don't know if that is a good price ?


----------



## jamato8

It's an ok price. For repair and new battery it would have been a good buy at round 60 dollars or so.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brandnewgame* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn, outbid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well, I still have some iMod DIYing to do before I can afford both an iRiver and the D10._

 

Seriously, you should factor in at least $120 for an iRiver H120. Had the seller allowed for international bidding, I would have been happy to pay $100 even if it's partially faulty.

 DIY iMod isn't cheap either. And you can also DIYmod the H120/140 as well. There's a guide somewhere.


----------



## brandnewgame

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seriously, you should factor in at least $120 for an iRiver H120. Had the seller allowed for international bidding, I would have been happy to pay $100 even if it's partially faulty.

 DIY iMod isn't cheap either. And you can also DIYmod the H120/140 as well. There's a guide somewhere._

 

Thanks for the tip. Luckily I've already got an iPod Mini from a friend and the caps are on the way. In reality I was going to bid near to $100 for it but was held up by my grandmother. Since I've already got a portable system that I can happily listen to I'm in no rush to pick up another iRiver to fix/CF mod. I'm simply intrigued to compare diyMod with Blackgates, diyMod with Sonicaps and iRiver optical connected to the D10 as I'm sure I'll find a use for each combination.


----------



## wolfen68

Has anyone who ordered a D10 on it's day of release actually gotten one yet? It seems like the ones that Head-fi members have gotten so far were sent pre-release (or actually live in Asia).

 Ibasso sent me a DHL tracking number last Tuesday or Wednesday...but five days later it still does not show as a recognized tracking number on DHL's site. 

 I'm wondering what to expect as I have no idea when it will come...or if a delivery confirmation signature will be required. I guess the other issue is that Wisconsin has been below 0 lately and I would rather that the D10 not sit out in those temperatures all day. No replies from ibasso as I suppose they're on holiday. 

 Anybody have any idea what I should expect based on your previous ibasso experience?


----------



## jamato8

I would email iBasso, though they are on vacation. 

 I got mine shipped a couple of days after the release date.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would email iBasso, though they are on vacation. 

 I got mine shipped a couple of days after the release date._

 


 I've already emailed as mentioned. 

 Kind of wierd as I ordered mine within hours of its release.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seriously, you should factor in at least $120 for an iRiver H120._

 

2 years ago, a couple of hundred 120/140's were being sold by a European liquidator for between $200 and $300. Why, because it was the last DAPs with an optical in/out and it's a damn good unit. $120, even if it needs a new battery, is a good deal.

 On those lines... 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sadhanaputra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway, how does using optical cable make any difference to the SQ? It's just digital data, it's not like the cable can add warmth or detail or something.. Right?_

 

If you mean *compared* the the usb out, then you will hear negligible difference either for the better or the worse.

 If you mean *compared* to the headphone or line out, remember that both the optical and usb line out bypass the DAC and amp in your source, which we assume is inferior to the ones in the D10. So yes, you *will* get more detail and warmth and soundstage, etc.

 Hope this helps, either way.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brandnewgame* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You were only trying to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It would suck being in a bidding war against another Head-fi'er though since sound quality is worth a pretty penny.


 Thanks again for your amp help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm on here irregularly and often can't finish a most helpful conversation._

 

First thanks to nc800 and EFN! I got one from erikzen here in Head-Fi. Next ...


----------



## immtbiker

Hard work and perseverance *do* pay off.

 I *told you* to mention my name to erikzen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats on getting what you wanted and needed, Miguel.


----------



## mrarroyo

Yes Aaron I am very happy! BTW, in about three weeks contact me. I should be able to send your way the D10 and a couple of new Reference Boards to try plus the one you liked out of the last two. I hope you remember if it was the one w/ the red mark or the one w/ no mark.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2 years ago, a couple of hundred 120/140's were being sold by a European liquidator for between $200 and $300. Why, because it was the last DAPs with an optical in/out and it's a damn good unit. $120, even if it needs a new battery, is a good deal._

 

Last summer 50 plus of new 120's were being sold on ebay that iRiver had let go from stock used to replace bad 120's. They went for around 150. It was a great deal for many people. It drove down the price of used for a while.


----------



## bpfiguer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone who ordered a D10 on it's day of release actually gotten one yet? It seems like the ones that Head-fi members have gotten so far were sent pre-release (or actually live in Asia).

 Ibasso sent me a DHL tracking number last Tuesday or Wednesday...but five days later it still does not show as a recognized tracking number on DHL's site. 

 I'm wondering what to expect as I have no idea when it will come...or if a delivery confirmation signature will be required. I guess the other issue is that Wisconsin has been below 0 lately and I would rather that the D10 not sit out in those temperatures all day. No replies from ibasso as I suppose they're on holiday. 

 Anybody have any idea what I should expect based on your previous ibasso experience?_

 

I have the same problem than you. I got the DHL tracking number from iBasso on Wednesday morning but still doesn't work. I live in WA.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I hope you remember if it was the one w/ the red mark or the one w/ no mark._

 

It was the one with no mark. Check inside. It should be the one with my new batteries, not yours.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bpfiguer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the same problem than you. I got the DHL tracking number from iBasso on Wednesday morning but still doesn't work. I live in WA._

 

Mine worked right away. This is frustrating. I guess you guys have emailed iBasso. They are on vacation but hopefully they will check the email.


----------



## -=Germania=-

We need iPods with digital output! or just a Portable Source with a Digital output - this day and age and there is still nothing besides the iriver - disgusting.


----------



## jamato8

Many people are happy with low res audio MP3 files that can fit on the Nano with 20,000 songs. Why would they care about digital out? The money isn't there. I hope it changes though. Meanwhile I have a good stock of iRivers.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Meanwhile I have a good stock of iRivers._

 

Some for sale?


----------



## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brandnewgame* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You were only trying to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It would suck being in a bidding war against another Head-fi'er though since sound quality is worth a pretty penny._

 

The unwritten law of Head-fi. Never EVER post an eBay auction which would most likely be the target of Head-fiers.


----------



## sadhanaputra

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_-cut-
 If you mean *compared* the the usb out, then you will hear negligible difference either for the better or the worse.

 If you mean *compared* to the headphone or line out, remember that both the optical and usb line out bypass the DAC and amp in your source, which we assume is inferior to the ones in the D10. So yes, you *will* get more detail and warmth and soundstage, etc.

 Hope this helps, either way._

 

Interesting.. How could there be any (albeit negligible) difference between USB and, say, optical?

 I was asking the question based on the statement from iBasso: "I think the D10 can beat any of our products if using optical or coaxial inputs". (link)


----------



## kiwirugby

I guess this is a question for someone like Ron, but for those of us with D1s that were opamp rolled (remember that whole string of posts about that?), is the D10 a must replacement for the D1 now (other than the size difference)?

 I have my Sony pcpds with optical out going to a D1 and then to an iBasso P2 with ESW9s (recabled) and I am very happy.

 Thoughts?


----------



## jobski

i suggest searching around ebay.co.uk for h140's i ended up with a good deal for an h140 at GBP60 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




40gb iriver h140 mp3 player - eBay (item 270333497209 end time Jan-21-09 08:36:41 PST)

 But i'm still waiting for it to arrive though.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vkvedam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where is Larry, we haven't heard from him on this thread for a while now. Is he busy with burning the midnight oil over the D10?_

 

I ordered on the 18th and it shipped on the 23rd. By the 24th mine made it as far as Ohio, so should be in Denver Monday and Colorado Springs Tuesday.


----------



## mrarroyo

Today I used the D10 as an stand alone amp w/ an iPod Classic. The D10 is much smaller than the D1, Lisa III, or the Xenos 1XHA-EPC, and overall not much difference w/ the LaRocco PRII MkII or the HeadRoom Micro Amp.

 However I still would not carry this if only used as an amp. As an amp and dac then I can see the use and would carry it.

 I used the Yuin OK1, Senn PX100, and a MarkL modded D5000. I found the sound to be very relaxed, mellow, punchy, and surprisingly organic. These short impressions are w/ 48 hours of burn-in and w/ the stock op-amp configuration.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiwirugby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess this is a question for someone like Ron, but for those of us with D1s that were opamp rolled (remember that whole string of posts about that?), is the D10 a must replacement for the D1 now (other than the size difference)?

 I have my Sony pcpds with optical out going to a D1 and then to an iBasso P2 with ESW9s (recabled) and I am very happy.

 Thoughts?_

 

The D1 with the appropriate selection of opamps to match the source and phones used can be favorably compared to most of the latest portable amps. 

 Personal preferences and psychoacoustics play such an important role in our listening that it is nearly impossible to state that amp is, in absolute terms, better than another. 

 I think actual measured differences would be quite small between a modded D1 and its competitors. 

 I do believe that the D10 is a remarkable achievement by iBasso considering its size and input capabilities. It seems to me as if they have developed in their circuitry the ability to further enhance the non-measurable qualities such as a sense of soundstage realism and imaging.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We need iPods with digital output! or just a Portable Source with a Digital output - this day and age and there is still nothing besides the iriver - disgusting._

 

Yeah, it's too bad. I have one iRiver H140 left, and 4 PCDP with optical, and several Macintosh computers with optical, but the only way to get optical bit perfect audio out of my iPods has been my DLO HomeDock HD (which is not portable or battery powered).


----------



## jamato8

I carried the D10 and a H140 around while we shopped and went to the book store today and this evening. The sound was outstanding. I didn't want to do anything but listen to music. Maybe that makes me selfish, but hey I did drive the car! I didn't listen to music while driving of course. I mean, in the pocket, hard drive, optical out, DAC and amp. Amazing and all saved in lossless.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I carried the D10 and a H140 around while we shopped and went to the book store today and this evening. The sound was outstanding. I didn't want to do anything but listen to music. Maybe that makes me selfish, but hey I did drive the car! I didn't listen to music while driving of course. I mean, in the pocket, hard drive, optical out, DAC and amp. Amazing and all saved in lossless._

 

Yeah I know the feeling. I will be going out to do grocery shopping with my family and my iRiver+PCM1793 DAC+MiniBox-E+ER-4S will be lugged in my pocket. Carrying audio bliss (Hi-Fi grade) in your pocket was something I thought not possible 5 years ago.


----------



## nc8000

A complete aside question. My entire music collection is 320kb aac. Would that play on a rockboxed iRiver (through the optical out) ?
 I know that the stock software can't play aac.


----------



## ElEsido

I just got mine delivered! :-D

 Now, I'm new to portable amps and don't want to break the little guy. Could anyone please confirm that the following steps are OK:

 1. Charge it
 2. Burn in: Attach the H 140 (line-out fo the moment because I don't have an optical mini->toslink adapter yet) and the headphones (ER6i) and play some music at a low level for 30hrs. Line-out volume of the H 140 should be as if I connected it to the stereo (close to the max) and the output volume of the D10 is set to low. 
 3. Profi... eh I mean: Enjoy!
 4. Repeat the burn-in as soon as i have the optical cable and adapter.

 The manual says that the D10 can be left plugged in without over-charging concerns, however that the battery life can be extended by putting the charging switch to the "off"-position. If I want to burn it in for 30hrs, should I use the battery or should I leave it hooked on with the charging switch to "on"? (I believe having it connected to the charger and switching charging to "off" would be the same as disconnecting it?)

 I do not need to insert any of the separate opamps or dummy adapters in order to use it, right? In case I decide to roll the opaps, will they need another burn-in?

 I believe the bottle neck of my setup (Flacs, H 140, D10, ER6i) are the earphones. My itching knee tells me that an Upgrade is coming.


----------



## ElEsido

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(...)320kb aac. Would that play on a rockboxed iRiver (...)._

 

From the Rockbox FAQ:

_In general the AAC decoder in Rockbox works fairly well, however there are some known glitches such as problems with certain metadata, crashes with very long files and skipping at high bitrates (usually >192kbps). Most developers don't listen to their music in AAC, so there are few people with specific experience/focus in this area. Your best bet is to use files created by the iTunes software (not from the music store, but if you use iTunes to rip and encode a CD) as they seem to cause the fewest problems at this time. As stated above, DRM encrypted files (such as those from the iTunes Music Store) are not supported and probably never will be. _

 The best thing is probably to just try. Rockboxing a H140 is really easy with the Rockbox Utility.


----------



## arirug

Ibasso D10 ordered! I want to use it with my 4 PCDP`s with optical out. I have also about 10 technics and sony PCDP`s with Line Out, where the Technics SL-XP505 is the best of them! I allready have a Ray Samuels tomahawk, which I have been very satisfied with. This I use with my Imod 4th gen. A portable dac/amp is what I have been waiting for! When I ordered it, the Ibasso home page said they were sold out, so I guess I have to wait for some time before it arrive. I hope it will work well with the Sennheiser HD600, HD650 and the marklmodded D2000 Deluxe that I have. These are the phones I like the most. I mostly use my portable set-up at home. When moving around in the house, doing different things, I don`t have to take off the headphones.


----------



## wuwhere

OT here: Can the HD in the H120 be replaced with a higher capacity HD?


----------



## ElEsido

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OT here: Can the HD in the H120 be replaced with a higher capacity HD?_

 

Yes, see the links in the second post here:
Replacing H120 hard drive


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElEsido* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, see the links in the second post here:
Replacing H120 hard drive_

 

Thanks.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElEsido* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From the Rockbox FAQ:

In general the AAC decoder in Rockbox works fairly well, however there are some known glitches such as problems with certain metadata, crashes with very long files and skipping at high bitrates (usually >192kbps). Most developers don't listen to their music in AAC, so there are few people with specific experience/focus in this area. Your best bet is to use files created by the iTunes software (not from the music store, but if you use iTunes to rip and encode a CD) as they seem to cause the fewest problems at this time. As stated above, DRM encrypted files (such as those from the iTunes Music Store) are not supported and probably never will be. 

 The best thing is probably to just try. Rockboxing a H140 is really easy with the Rockbox Utility._

 

Thanks. I'm not sure that I will bother to try getting one in that case.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered on the 18th and it shipped on the 23rd. By the 24th mine made it as far as Ohio, so should be in Denver Monday and Colorado Springs Tuesday._

 

Unfortunately, they will hold it until I get mine since I ordered on the 17th 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS - To bpfiguer: I hope yours comes soon, we're in this one together


----------



## burgunder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Today I used the D10 as an stand alone amp w/ an iPod Classic. The D1 is much smaller than the D1, Lisa III, or the Xenos 1XHA-EPC, and overall not much difference w/ the LaRocco PRII MkII or the HeadRoom Micro Amp._

 


 Arrgh even though I don't actually need a portable, I have an urge to order one these, even though I'm sure the Zero/Compass/Zhaolu/Octavart squad will do a better job driving my K400's. 
 And discriptions like this is not making it easier not to push the button, but I better keep my head cold.


----------



## trickywombat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *burgunder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Arrgh even though I don't actually need a portable, I have an urge to order one these, even though I'm sure the Zero/Compass/Zhaolu/Octavart squad will do a better job driving my K400's. 
 And discriptions like this is not making it easier not to push the button, but I better keep my head cold._

 

Why are you doing this to yourself? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Quit agonizing and just order it already. You'll feel better. Head-Fi is not about keeping your wallet comfortable. People have spent more than this on Beanie Babies. In a fight, a portable amp can hurt your opponent more than a bunch of sissy Beanie Babies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope this helps, burgunder.


----------



## scytheavatar

How does the D10 compare to the D2 and D3? I am thinking about upgrading from my D2 Boa, I am not looking for more power since I am using the AD2000, but I'll appreciate a better soundstage.


----------



## jamato8

I notice as I pass 70 hours on the D10 that the detail has picked up and the spatial presentation of the sound has opened up more. As normal, it looks like a few hundred hours to know for sure where it ends up.


----------



## Gberg

will we be seeing some comparisons to other popular portable amps?


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D1 with the appropriate selection of opamps to match the source and phones used can be favorably compared to most of the latest portable amps. 

 Personal preferences and psychoacoustics play such an important role in our listening that it is nearly impossible to state that amp is, in absolute terms, better than another. 

 I think actual measured differences would be quite small between a modded D1 and its competitors. 

 I do believe that the D10 is a remarkable achievement by iBasso considering its size and input capabilities. It seems to me as if they have developed in their circuitry the ability to further enhance the non-measurable qualities such as a sense of soundstage realism and imaging._

 

Thanks, Ron. I just put my wallet back in my pocket! First time I ever did that on here!!!! (I've got to look up psychoacoustics and see if I am missing any!!!!!!!!)

 It's so good to know that iBasso is making such good strides with their DACs and amps. I know that there have been quite a few Headfiers who have made suggestions to iBasso about how to improve their products and it looks like this is paying off. This is one of the benefits of this site beyond being a great resource for consumers.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unfortunately, they will hold it until I get mine since I ordered on the 17th 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS - To bpfiguer: I hope yours comes soon, we're in this one together
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Mine arrived today!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. I'm not sure that I will bother to try getting one in that case._

 

I use Apple Lossless 600-1000 kbps files in my Rockboxed H140 all the time without issues.


----------



## jamato8

I just got my very short optical cable from Sys.concept. what a service, Joseph is great. Anyway to have custom, at no extra cost, optical cables of qualities is great. Now with the 90 degree adapter the cable lays flat against the back of the iRiver/D10 combo though it could have been 2cm shorter. I informed Joseph of this so he will know how short he can make the cable for this combination.

 And the D10 is really opening up. I am getting a very large and focussed sound stage. Almost tube like in presentation.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my very short optical cable from Sys.concept. what a service, Joseph is great. Anyway to have custom, at no extra cost, optical cables of qualities is great. Now with the 90 degree adapter the cable lays flat against the back of the iRiver/D10 combo though it could have been 2cm shorter. I informed Joseph of this so he will know how short he can make the cable for this combination.

 And the D10 is really opening up. I am getting a very large and focussed sound stage. Almost tube like in presentation._

 

Jam, any new pics of your rig with your new optical cable?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OT here: Can the HD in the H120 be replaced with a higher capacity HD?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElEsido* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, see the links in the second post here:
Replacing H120 hard drive_

 

Anyone knows where I could find a Toshiba 40 gigabyte MK4007GAL. It fits the iRiver H120. Thanks.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I notice as I pass 70 hours on the D10 that the detail has picked up and the spatial presentation of the sound has opened up more. As normal, it looks like a few hundred hours to know for sure where it ends up._

 

Funny you should mention this. A short time ago I took a quick listen (72 hours of burn in) and noticed it has a nice wide soundstage w/ good depth. I posted as much in another thread. IMO the sound retains the mellow and relaxed presentation untill it needs to "get down".


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone knows where I could find a Toshiba 40 gigabyte MK4007GAL. It fits the iRiver H120. Thanks._

 

Is the MK4007GAL a single or double platter drive?


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone knows where I could find a Toshiba 40 gigabyte MK4007GAL. It fits the iRiver H120. Thanks._

 


 They're extremely difficult to find....good luck.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

With 3 hours on it and feeding it USB, my D10 sounds much better with my APS V3 cabled RS-1 so far than it does with my ESW10 which seem a little flat with it. I REALLY like it with the RS-1. I have to dig out my old sysconcept.ca cables that I haven't used since I traded my D1 for a Stax Pro energizer, and then I can check out the optical.

 I can't do all my iBasso comparisons yet, as Casey at Nuforce has my D3 to play with till next week or so, and jma790 bought my D2 Viper; but out of the box via USB DAC the D10 is better than my D2 Boa. It's at least as good as I recall the D3 out of the box sounded, and the D3 was one of those amps that didn't need burn-in to sound good even though it still improved some with burn-in. (The 3MOVE also sounded great out of the box but it was a b-stock and may have had all the burn-in done for me).


----------



## wuwhere

I just read somewhere that the Toshiba MK4007GAL is a single platter drive.


----------



## jamato8

GAL is single platter and GAH is dual platter. The MK4007GAL is hard to find and expensive. They show up on ebay from time to time.


----------



## jobski

Hi jamato8,

 I would like to ask for the "specs" of your optical cable and right angled adapters so that i can order them too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 can you also post pics of them (d10 + h140) together? thanks!


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the MK4007GAL a single or double platter drive?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They're extremely difficult to find....good luck._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_GAL is single platter and GAH is dual platter. The MK4007GAL is hard to find and expensive. They show up on ebay from time to time._

 

Yes single platter, I found one earlier today but it was like $300 or $400 which is just funny in an stupid kind of way.


----------



## wuwhere

There is a 30GB version, MK3006GAL.


----------



## brandnewgame

Might as well Compact Flash mod it. Hard disks in portables are so clunky and unresponsive compared to instant flash memory.


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, you can get a 32gb CF card that is a true 32gigs but a 40gb hard drive is not 40gb, more like 36. So for 4gb difference you can get a drive that is less than 100 dollars, uses less energy and you can't destroy a spinning disc because there aren't any.


----------



## mrarroyo

I agree, the 32Gb is the way to go. I wonder how long it will take for the 64Gb card to drop from its current $180 price?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree, the 32Gb is the way to go. I wonder how long it will take for the 64Gb card to drop from its current $180 price?_

 

Probably be half this time next year. There is already a 100GB but it is prohibitively expensive.


----------



## mrarroyo

^ Yes I saw the press release about 4 months ago.


----------



## jamato8

The 64gb is thicker and a very tight fit in the H120 but worth the try. Now a 100 or 128gb CF card would be sweeeet.


----------



## younglee200

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jobski* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi jamato8,

 I would like to ask for the "specs" of your optical cable and right angled adapters so that i can order them too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 can you also post pics of them (d10 + h140) together? thanks!_

 

X2 on the optical cable specs please. 

 Last thing I would want is the H120 + the amp without a good optical to connect them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, how easy it to perform the flash drive mod + the battery improvement?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *younglee200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2 on the optical cable specs please. 

 Last thing I would want is the H120 + the amp without a good optical to connect them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, how easy it to perform the flash drive mod + the battery improvement?_

 

I have been emailing with Joseph of Sys.concept on the best length. His quality is excellent. 

 There is a how to video on mystic River for changing the battery and hard drive. Someone posted the link back a page or two.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 64gb is thicker and a very tight fit in the H120 but worth the try. Now a 100 or 128gb CF card would be sweeeet._

 

Plus using CF card should prolong the battery life too.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *younglee200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2 on the optical cable specs please. 

 Last thing I would want is the H120 + the amp without a good optical to connect them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, how easy it to perform the flash drive mod + the battery improvement?_

 

misticriver has the procedure to swap the H120 20GB HD to a 32GB CF card. You have to use Rockbox and you need to buy an HD to CF adapter.


----------



## ElEsido

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been emailing with Joseph of Sys.concept on the best length._

 

So what's your conclusion?


----------



## jamato8

It appears it can be 2cm shorter than before and while that doesn't tell you anything, I have the shortest length but he also says that the really short lengths are harder to make. I have to send an image of the current cable with the adapters so he can see them implemented in the D10. I will get him the images tomorrow.


----------



## ElEsido

Great! Thanks for all that tweaking and refining that you do and that benefits all H140/D10 owners!

 (And thanks for the "Hi-Fi on the move"-thread that you started on misticriver, that got me to his forum and into buying a D10.)


----------



## dazzer1975

sorry if this has already been mentioned but does anyone know the dac chip in the d10?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry if this has already been mentioned but does anyone know the dac chip in the d10?_

 



 PCM2906, converts USB into a S/PDIF signal
 CS8416, DA-receiver chip
 WM8740, D/A chip


----------



## jamato8




----------



## wuwhere

^^ Jam, nice pics. Looks like your H140 lost a screw there.


----------



## jamato8

I was working on it so much I just have two in each end so I have faster and easier access. Now that I am done with the 120gb drive and all work I will most likely put them back in. :^)


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I just have two in each end so I have faster and easier access._

 






 Sorry...it was too easy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW- Excellent pictures and great troubleshooting skills.


----------



## jamato8

It seems that telling Joseph at Sys.concept to use "2.5cm center to center" will get you the shortest length of optical cable that will still work. It will be about 1cm shorter than the optical cable in the above image with the right angle adapters.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems that telling Joseph at Sys.concept to use "2.5cm center to center" will get you the shortest length of optical cable that will still work. It will be about 1cm shorter than the optical cable in the above image with the right angle adapters._

 

Which one do you think would have less stress on the optical cable?


----------



## wolfen68

I got my sysconcept cable for my H140/D10 combo today. It looks great, and is the first sysconcept cable I have without the metallic ends. I ordered a 4 cm c-to-c...but it seems to have a perfect "U" when bent to a 3 cm c-to-c.....which looks like a good fit looking at jamato's picture with the ruler.

 I've been thinking about how to carry this arrangement around while going portable. I'm not a big fan of carrying equipment loose and prefer to have a small camera bag with a belt loop to slide everything into. The challenge with the D10 is that the optical input is on the back, which makes it near impossible to stand the components up. I had concluded that laying the H140 and D10 (while strapped together) on their side would be the way to go.

 I found this camera bag:

Amazon.com: Lowepro Terraclime 50 Recycled Camera Bag (Black): Camera & Photo 

 It's still relatively small and light with a belt loop (shoulder strap is removable). It should allow everything to lay sidewise and allow room for the cables to stick out in both directions (since it's unusually wide for a small camera case). 

 I picked one up for $23 and will play with it...even though my D10 is still MIA.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I would just use an iRiver remote with everything in a camera bag then. I do have one of those old Headroom gear bags with the clear side to operate the controls through. I think they were discontinued.


----------



## Nimrad

If I wanna buy a PAP with D10 that has optical out. What's my best option?


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PCM2906, converts USB into a S/PDIF signal
 CS8416, DA-receiver chip
 WM8740, D/A chip_

 


 cheers mate very much appreciated.

 so going off the chips, wolfson particularly this thing is no slouch?


----------



## denging

i've just wondered how does the iRiver sound with D10 DAC without its amplification?


----------



## Lamenthe

Great pictures, makes me tempted to try one out. Can't wait to see comparisons.


----------



## ElEsido

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nimrad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I wanna buy a PAP with D10 that has optical out. What's my best option?_

 

I love my iriver H140 (40GB) that has optical out. They're a bit hard to find nowadays, but they keep popping up on ebay. You might also find a H120 (20 GB). I am not aware of any other portable music player with optical out. 

 Highly recommended to use them with rockbox. There's a lot of info on misticriver.net - portable.digital.lifestyle.


----------



## wuwhere

I just bought an H120 (from a fellow head-fier) and as soon as I received it, I'll rockbox it and swap the 20GB HD with a 32GB CF.


----------



## brandnewgame

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought an H120 (from a fellow head-fier) and as soon as I received it, I'll rockbox it and swap the 20GB HD with a 32GB CF._

 

My thoughts exactly


----------



## mrarroyo

With 120 hours of burn the D10 continues to open up and develop. The bass is still a little shy and the highs not as extended but the mids are very nice. BTW, my D10 is stock and I am comparing it w/ home headphone amps. So all in all it is doing well.


----------



## jamato8

I must be around the same number of hours or a little more and the sound on my D10 has gone south. Rather flat and lacking in dynamics. Hope it comes back. The T4 running from the dac section sounds better and the P-51 sounds very fine from the dac section.

 Ok, I went back to the stock opamp and buffers and I like the dynamics and drive more. Much better for my taste. I was using a 8656 and bypassed buffers.


----------



## wuwhere

OT: The H120/H140 can also be modified for SDHC using an adapter. CF spec only goes to 137GB but SDXC goes up to 2TB.

SDXC - SD Association


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

54 hours on mine and still sounding pretty good stock. I can start my review in 250 hours...


----------



## wuwhere

This is what a CF-to-SDHC adapter looks like.






 Just imagine, 500GB of FLAC in your H120 feeding your D10 optically.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OT: The H120/H140 can also be modified for SDHC using an adapter. CF spec only goes to 137GB but SDXC goes up to 2TB.

SDXC - SD Association_

 

wow!!!! SD memory is much cheaper than CF too. very cool, I wonder if I can get one for my already CF moded DIYMOD. where can I get one??


----------



## kostalex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just imagine, 500GB of FLAC in your H120 feeding your D10 optically. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It is too good to be true. I bet there are some limitations in iRiver hardware/firmware or Rockbox.


----------



## senn_liu

anybody has any thoughts about the d10 vs the predator, or even the audio-gd compass? all are dac/amp combos, and the d10 is about the same price as the compass, although they are very different in form factor.


----------



## burgunder

Has anyone tried the D10 with some of the harder to drive cans like the HD600, K701 or some of the high ohm Beyers?


----------



## theory_87

have anyone tried comparing the DAC to SuperPro and y1? I tried D10 and find the amp section is good but the DAC section does not wow me. Btw, i was feeding it with alac -> h140 -> D10 optical input -> ACS T1 / Diablo -> ACS T1


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_have anyone tried comparing the DAC to SuperPro and y1? I tried D10 and find the amp section is good but the DAC section does not wow me. Btw, i was feeding it with alac -> h140 -> D10 optical input -> ACS T1 / Diablo -> ACS T1_

 

This is not very encouraging. OTOH, you should also look into HifiDIY.net PCM1793 OS DAC, itobito who used to own a HR MicroDAC 2006 mentioned that he loved the PCM1793 DAC more (even before burn-in). For $79, it's almost harmless


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is not very encouraging. OTOH, you should also look into HifiDIY.net PCM1793 OS DAC, itobito who used to own a HR MicroDAC 2006 mentioned that he loved the PCM1793 DAC more (even before burn-in). For $79, it's almost harmless_

 

I will try out Go-Vibe Vulcan and Vulcan VB dac first before I decide to use DAC for portable. PCM1793 DAC is quite huge after the mod in order for it to be usable on the move and most of the small optical dac only offer rca output


----------



## ZoNtO

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow!!!! SD memory is much cheaper than CF too. very cool, I wonder if I can get one for my already CF moded DIYMOD. where can I get one??_

 

I'd like to know this as well since I've seen these adapters too! bump


----------



## Packgrog

Huh, only just found out about this. Interesting.

 Now, is the Wolfson DAC in this a 16-bit DAC chip? The old Cirrus DAC in the D1 is a 24-bit DAC capable of up to 192kHz. That could be the one valid advantage of the D1 over the D10. That said, I never heard enough difference to warrant it in a portable.

 This could be interesting, though. If the sound is good enough, I might consider trading in my D1 *AND* my Tomahawk in favor of a D10. I only really use the Tomahawk when I mow the lawn anymore, and even if I could get a nice, tiny TOSLINK cable (the Sys.concepts site appears to be down), the D1 is awfully bulky for that. Curious.

 Keep us informed, jamato!


----------



## khtse

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Packgrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now, is the Wolfson DAC in this a 16-bit DAC chip? The old Cirrus DAC in the D1 is a 24-bit DAC capable of up to 192kHz. That could be the one valid advantage of the D1 over the D10. That said, I never heard enough difference to warrant it in a portable._

 

no

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/.../en/WM8740.pdf


----------



## PeterDLai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiberplayer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Íàêîíåö-òî íà ïëåéìàíèè ñäåëàëè èãðû â êàðòû!!!!!!
 È óæå ìíîãî ëþäåé èãðàþò. Ïðèñîåäèíÿéòåñü!_

 

Yes.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_have anyone tried comparing the DAC to SuperPro and y1? I tried D10 and find the amp section is good but the DAC section does not wow me. Btw, i was feeding it with alac -> h140 -> D10 optical input -> ACS T1 / Diablo -> ACS T1_

 

Weird, because so far the D10 optical is not embarrassed by the Pico DAC yet, and my Pico is better than my SuperPro DAC707.


----------



## PeterDLai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Weird, because so far the D10 optical is *not embarrassed by the Pico DAC yet*, and my Pico is better than my SuperPro DAC707._

 

Does that mean that the DAC also goes through burn-in, and it might degrade with prolonged use? I think it's the "yet" that throws me off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Or you haven't tested it enough to make a definitive opinion yet?


----------



## nv88

What's the battery life like on the D1?


----------



## tha_dude

How does the D3 DAC compare with that of the D10 in terms of sound quality?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senn_liu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anybody has any thoughts about the d10 vs the predator, or even the audio-gd compass? all are dac/amp combos, and the d10 is about the same price as the compass, although they are very different in form factor._

 

Haven't gotten that far - will comment in my review.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *burgunder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the D10 with some of the harder to drive cans like the HD600, K701 or some of the high ohm Beyers?_

 

Have only tried it with RS-1, D2000 woodied recabled, and Westone 3 so far. Haven;t gotten that far yet since I wont review it till 300 hours or more.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PeterDLai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does that mean that the DAC also goes through burn-in, and it might degrade with prolonged use? I think it's the "yet" that throws me off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or you haven't tested it enough to make a definitive opinion yet?_

 

Not tested enough to make an opinion yet.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tha_dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the D3 DAC compare with that of the D10 in terms of sound quality?_

 

The D10 USB DAC seems to be on the same level of the D3 DAC, and optical seems a little more detailed/better. The USB DAC is definitely better to me than the D1 USB. Only about 75 hours on mine and I am shooting for 300, but it sounds very good so far.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nv88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the battery life like on the D1?_

 

I get 10-15 hours on a charge but that is not with the stock chips, rather with a chipset I got from hiflight (forgot what they are)


----------



## mrarroyo

My D10 has about 145 hours of burn in, using a coaxial feeding it from a Philips DVD player. The sound has continued to evolve, yes it has.

 From yesterday till today the biggest change is in the more elegant presentation of the music. Including a bit wider and deep soundstage.

 What amazes me is the level of detail that a portable amp/dac is delivering. Be advised that my comments are from an stock D10 being fed via the coaxial input and while connected to the wall wart.

 I am impressed enough to have bought an iRiver H120 to use as a source. And believe you me I do not look forward to reading 30 pages of the iRiver manual plus another 160 pages of the RockBox manual.

 I believe I will stop burning the D10 next Monday/Tuesday at the 250 hour mark and then work on the final impression.

 So far very happy w/ its detailed, clear, and extended presentation. Also the wide and deep soundstage.

 One area that at times I wish could be improved is the bass punch. I believe it could use a tad more, perhaps more burn-in or rolling other op-amps will help.

 More to come.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Weird, because so far the D10 optical is not embarrassed by the Pico DAC yet, and my Pico is better than my SuperPro DAC707._

 

Maybe the set i'm listening to is just out of box. It a virgin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 will head back to try after 2 weeks to decide if i'm buying.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe the set i'm listening to is just out of box. It a virgin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 will head back to try after 2 weeks to decide if i'm buying._

 

Also, I'm not saying the SuperPro DAC707 is bad, but it is closer to the sound of the original iBasso D1 - and the D10, HR Micro DAC and Pico are all a little better.


----------



## Mikenet

I'm using my D10 as a DAC only at the moment. I was using an audiophile DAC with a sound signature that didn't suit me...and couldn't tolerate consumer equipment for that long. So I just wasn't listening to too much music.

 All I can say is I'm REALLY enjoying headphone listening again after plugging the D10 into my rig as a DAC. I'm feeding it over USB(I just have to reach over to the other side of my bed for a SPDIF cable, but oh so lazy...and then I'd have to stop listening). Maybe I'll run it through its paces as a portable amp/dac in a few days once I get some time to set up its companion netbook. Hehe.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, I'm not saying the SuperPro DAC707 is bad, but it is closer to the sound of the original iBasso D1 - and the D10, HR Micro DAC and Pico are all a little better._

 

look like SuperPro DAC 707 is out for me although I can have it for a nice price here.


----------



## theory_87

I tried both Go-Vibe Vulcan and Vulcan VB today. Vulcan VB dac at initial listen really wow me. It's dac sound airer and more 3D with great depth compare to D10 dac I listen yesterday. Vulcan sound dull in comparison and i did not listen more. Vulcan VB is opamp rollable for both amp and dac section. I can't remember which dac chip it using but I know it a CS chip. It power by 4AA batteries.

 The amp section sound like SR71a but with less dynamic, extension and depth.

 My setup for the test
 alac -> h140 -> optical out -> Go-Vibe Vulcan VB -> ACS T1 / Diablo -> ACS T1

Go-Vibe Vulcan VB

Go-Vibe Vulcan


----------



## jobski

^ i thought this was a D10 thread.


----------



## swayne

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jobski* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ i thought this was a D10 thread._

 

It was, these things change. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now it's a thread discussing what the topic was.

 Steven.


----------



## jamato8

I have listened now to the D10 dac section with several amps. It is dynamic and throws a beautiful contrast between instruments. The speed and drive is startling at times in a good way. I am very impressed. The P-51 and the D10 dac is a great combo and different than the internal amp but the internal amp is also very, very good.

 I am also finding the bass to be very well controlled and to be honest, I would not want any more bass as it seems just about right to me.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jobski* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ i thought this was a D10 thread._

 

sorry... back to topic.


----------



## Gberg

Does the D10 have enough power to drive higher impedance headphones?


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the D10 have enough power to drive higher impedance headphones?_

 

it can drive them to listenable volume but not juice imo...


----------



## nv88

Sorry, let me try again without the typo.

 What's the battery life like on the D10?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the D10 have enough power to drive higher impedance headphones?_

 

It depends upon which opamps you use and what you choose as a buffer.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nv88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, let me try again without the typo.

 What's the battery life like on the D10?_

 

I get around 20 hours.


----------



## tha_dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have listened now to the D10 dac section with several amps. It is dynamic and throws a beautiful contrast between instruments. The speed and drive is startling at times in a good way. I am very impressed. The P-51 and the D10 dac is a great combo and different than the internal amp but the internal amp is also very, very good.

 I am also finding the bass to be very well controlled and to be honest, I would not want any more bass as it seems just about right to me._

 

How do you think the D3 DAC section compares to the D10's?


----------



## wolfen68

Well...here's an oddity. My "missing" D10 in which I was given a unrecognized DHL tracking number 10 days ago has shown up.....via U.S. post
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Haven't seen it yet......but my wife opened the box at home and says it looks "really cool" with "extra electronic parts". Hopefully she's refering to the extra opamps, and not the crushed remnants of my D10


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried both Go-Vibe Vulcan and Vulcan VB today. Vulcan VB dac at initial listen really wow me. It's dac sound airer and more 3D with great depth compare to D10 dac I listen yesterday. Vulcan sound dull in comparison and i did not listen more. Vulcan VB is opamp rollable for both amp and dac section. I can't remember which dac chip it using but I know it a CS chip. It power by 4AA batteries.

 The amp section sound like SR71a but with less dynamic, extension and depth.

 My setup for the test
 alac -> h140 -> optical out -> Go-Vibe Vulcan VB -> ACS T1 / Diablo -> ACS T1

Go-Vibe Vulcan VB

Go-Vibe Vulcan_

 

Interesting. You should start a thread on it. It is nice to see more combos with optical input. The D10 does change a lot with different opamps and with burn in but then most all of these gadgets do. :^) I wish the Vulcan VB wasn't almost 400 dollars. Seems pricy to me, knowing the cost of assembly and materials in the east but then everything is going up.


----------



## wuwhere

^^ I agree, the Vulcan VB with a bass contour looks real attractive.


----------



## jamato8

Interesting. In comparison to my Monica II dac (nonoversamply asynchronous reclocking), which is not stock and runs from battery power, is still better but it is not something available but does provide me with a base line. I have compared the dac section of the D10 while using my Woo 6 to the Monica II. The Monica II has more air and space. Having stated this I do find the D10 enjoyable and as a portable just a great deal of fun.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have listened now to the D10 dac section with several amps._

 

John, are you still experiencing the problem with the amp "not sounding as good as it used to with more hours on them", or has it started to trend in a more positive direction?


----------



## vkvedam

And how much is the Go-Vibe Vulcan?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_John, are you still experiencing the problem with the amp "not sounding as good as it used to with more hours on them", or has it started to trend in a more positive direction?_

 

I have the stock configuration back in and like the dynamics and openness much more than just the 8656 with bypassed buffers. I think I will try the 8656's as buffers and something else in the opamp section just for fun.


----------



## EFN

Hey. Can someone compare the sonic performance of the optical DAC of D10 Vs. HeadRoom MicroDAC 2006? I'd love to know.


----------



## mrarroyo

John, I have continued to burn in the D10, currently at about 170 hours and all w/ the stock op-amp set it left the factory with. With the stock op-amps I find the bass w/ certain full size cans to be a bit lean. However the extension, soundstage, depth, and air in between the notes is like that of home amps in the $400 to $600 range. This when using the DAC section of the D10 to drive the amp section.

 I am very impressed by the micro detail and the level of musicality the D10 exhibits. At under $300 it sure is a great deal.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey. Can someone compare the sonic performance of the optical DAC of D10 Vs. HeadRoom MicroDAC 2006? I'd love to know._

 

It's gonna take me a couple of weeks to get that far...


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's gonna take me a couple of weeks to get that far..._

 

Take your time buddy.....


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Jamato8, I'm wondering, have you compared your Monica to any desktop DAC and which ones does it beat, and which beat it? It seems amazing to me how good you make it out to be.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jamato8, I'm wondering, have you compared your Monica to any desktop DAC and which ones does it beat, and which beat it? It seems amazing to me how good you make it out to be._

 

The main dac I compared it to was/is my Johnny's Incredible Dac. Yes, it seems audacious to name is after myself but I built it. 

 The JID is a dac based on an Audio Note dac board but from there it has little remains. The 2 positive and 1 negative power section of the dac board is battery. There is a silver interstage transformer between that board and the analogue board I built. There is a silver input transformer to the digital board for the dig signal. The output are two double C core nickel output transformers specially wound at Audio Note. The caps used for the power supply of the analogue section are ASC oil and poly. There is no ripple and the reserve power is huge. The dac is the most transparent and open thing I have ever heard and better than turntables I have heard, with well recorded music. 

 In comparison to this dac, no, Monica does not scale this high. But when listened to on her own in the same system, the sound is very pleasing with good depth and placement of instruments with a near 3D presentation (not the 3D of JID). So I have compared it to others but also to the best I know of. 

 Now the Monica II dac I have was made for just coax input but I converted it to optical and it was to be used as a home dac but I changed it to use 6 AA batteries. I put all this in an Altoid tin (the dac not the batteries). The Monica II I listen to here runs from not the 6 AA's that I would use on the go but a larger very nice battery supply and I run it at 12 volts to get an extra kick. I also have Black Gates in Super E configuration for the power supply inside the Altoid tin Monica II. She is built well beyond the original design.


----------



## mirh

I have iBasso D3 and I like its sound but D3 is very sensitive to source for instance when connected to SqueezeBox Classic I can't hear that more than at half volume causes distortions  (I've tried different headphones)
 As a DAC when connected to PC its sounds really nice with his amp, but its DAC is useless for my SquuezeBox which has only coax/optical out.
 So I'm thinking of changing my D3 for D10 and have a few question:

 1. Is D10 also RF sensitive?
 2. Can you hear any distortions when amp volume is almost at the end?

 And the last one: I'm now looking for a good amp and DAC (both rather stationary) for my squeezebox and by the time I found something I need some temporary solution for listening from my Squuezebox via my Westone UM2.
 I will also need a good portable amp for my iPod (now I use D3) so changing D3 for D10 is probably quite good idea isn't it?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mirh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have iBasso D3 and I like its sound but D3 is very sensitive to source for instance when connected to SqueezeBox Classic I can't hear that more than at half volume causes distortions  (I've tried different headphones)
 As a DAC when connected to PC its sounds really nice with his amp, but its DAC is useless for my SquuezeBox which has only coax/optical out.
 So I'm thinking of changing my D3 for D10 and have a few question:

 1. Is D10 also RF sensitive?
 2. Can you hear any distortions when amp volume is almost at the end?

 And the last one: I'm now looking for a good amp and DAC (both rather stationary) for my squeezebox and by the time I found something I need some temporary solution for listening from my Squuezebox via my Westone UM2.
 I will also need a good portable amp for my iPod (now I use D3) so changing D3 for D10 is probably quite good idea isn't it?_

 

The D10 does not pick up radio stations like my D3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , and the RFI from iPhone is less and more like with my D2 Boa than as severe as the D3. It is less sensitive to RFI with nothing plugged into the USB. I haven't finished all my testing because I don't start my review till about 300 hours of burn-in and mine just got here Monday.


----------



## jamato8

Ok, with a little over a week on the D10 now, 7.5 X24, I am hearing some changes. The sound is more open again and better spatial presentation. I hear, or perceive, more air between singers, instruments and just better staging. The transparency has increased and there is more reverb from walls, which gives the impression of a larger venue or feeling of space. Very nice. The dynamics have also improved as noted in speed and impact.

 Yes at around 170 hours or a little more I am hearing a return of some of the initial sound I heard from the D10 that faded. It improved after going back to the original opamps but I am now hearing an increase in sound quality over what I have been hearing for the past 4 days or so. It is working very well with the ESW10JPN.


----------



## immtbiker

...and the bass?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...and the bass?_

 

The bass isn't the deepest I have heard. I will compare to some good bass music and get back.

 Well, I am back. I am listening to some Leonard Cohen, and he uses a lot of bass in the music and I like it. Impact but what is very good, it doesn't smear and is tight and what I call, tuneful bass. Not thumpy or lumpy but really there and you can feel it. Hummm. . . . I will listen to other music as well.

 I am also noticing a big change in what I will call micro dynamics. The leading edge of notes that may be accented be it an instrument or voice, really come across in a well defined and detailed manner.


----------



## mrarroyo

The bass out of the D10 w/ 190 hours of burn in is very tight, deep, and clear. I has no bloat nor any smear. What bass it has is excellent, although not as much as say a Portaphile V2^2 Maxxed or the original Non M Hornet. But not many portable amps can compare with them.

 But I do not miss the extra bass because the mids are so liquid and clear and have a level of detail and clarity of a home amp. The highs have further developed with a crystal clear presentation.

 I know I will wait for at least 250 hours of burn-in for a comparison but man this is sounding very sweet indeed.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The bass out of the D10 w/ 190 hours of burn in is very tight, deep, and clear. I has no bloat nor any smear. What bass it has is excellent, although not as much as say a Portaphile V2^2 Maxxed or the original Non M Hornet. But not many portable amps can compare with them.

 But I do not miss the extra bass because the mids are so liquid and clear and have a level of detail and clarity of a home amp. The highs have further developed with a crystal clear presentation.

 I know I will wait for at least 250 hours of burn-in for a comparison but man this is sounding very sweet indeed._

 

Damn, we are hearing the same thing. I mean often people will have a basic view that yes I agree with this and that but as far as the high freqs mids and bass, I totally agree. We also have about the same number of hours on the D10. The impact is really surprising me. The amp section controls the drivers of my Ed. 9's very, very well and the dac section has to be good or I wouldn't be hearing all of this.


----------



## wolfen68

My D10 only has about 20 hours on it so far, but on first impression the amp seems OK and the DAC seems very good when output to an offboard amp (SR71a). My main interest is how the DAC will compare to my MicroDAC...but like Headphone Addict says....that will take awhile.

 Besides the sound which is premature to comment on, I do have the following observations/questions on other aspects of the D10:

 - The unit seems well built and has a nice overall feel. My only complaint (on the outside as I haven't opened it) is that the volume/power knob doesn't have much resistance and is a little sloppy. On the good side...zero channel imbalance even at the lowest volume. 

 - The high/low gain switch makes very little difference on my unit. Much less than between say, Low and Medium settings on an RSA amp.

 - The volume is plenty sufficient, but it does have less overall volume output than my SR71 or SR71a. 

 - It's a perfect fit with the H140 and looks great when attached to the iriver. However, I'm still stumped on how to carry this thing around as it won't fit in any camera bag or case I have due to the optical cable sticking out at the bottom.

 - The auto switching on this device is pretty cool, just plug in any combination you want and it just works. I do notice that everytime the signal stops (such as when manually selecting a new song), the D10 emits a small click or pop through the headphones as the device re-discovers the active input and starts working again. This has proven to be a little annoying with IEM's.

 - The charger is very clever as a half USB cable and half AC adapter. The one page manual doesn't clearly say this...but does the D10 charge through USB as well? I plugged in the D10 to charge via AC...and after 10 hours there was still no change in the charge light indicator (still orange). However, it was also burning in at the time so maybe it can't show full charge if it's operating at the same time. The charge switch was "on" of course.

 That's it so far.


----------



## jamato8

It does charge through the USB and it can be plugged into the computer to charge. I don't find the volume control sloppy but I do find it smooth with just the right amount of friction. 

 On the optical cable you can get the 90 degree adapters and the short optical cable from Sys.concept and you will have a flusher fit on the back side of the the D10.

 The detail I am hearing seems to almost increase now hour by hour. With the Ed. 9 I am hearing things in detail I haven't heard before. Now to compare to Monica again.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I have seen camera bags in the past which are wider than they are tall and would let you put the iRiver/D10 combo in sideways, and with a 90-90 degree optical cable in a u-bend you could fit it in there nicely.

 As far as my update - I have about 127 hours on mine. Sunday about midnight will be 150 hours and halfway through my burn-in. Up until now it has been sounding pretty good the whole time - with the impression that it sounds very similar to my D3 and Pico, while the Predator and XM5 or 3MOVE have a different flavor.

 Yesterday I switched from burn-in with the D2000 to the RS-1 and it still sounded good, and today I have the HD600 with APS V3 cable plugged in. Tonight it has been sounding just "a little" duller and less crisp than usual. It's too dark here in the bedroom with my wife asleep to see and dig out the D2000 or RS-1, so I'll chalk it up to the changes Jamato8 was hearing at about this point.

 Just for a lark I did briefly crank it up to max in high gain with HD600 and Diana Krall Live in Paris via optical out of Macbook Pro, and it was quite loud without clipping.


----------



## Kon-Masti

What's the best way to connect a Macbook pro to a D10, and then a d10 to a pair of d7000s?


----------



## mirh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.. with the impression that it sounds very similar to my D3 and Pico, while the Predator and XM5 or 3MOVE have a different flavor._

 

Could you be more precise: D10 vs 3MOVE what do you mean "different flavour"? I'm thinking about Arietta and I have D3 so this information might help me to choose.
 Is crossfeed filter in Meier's amps (3MOVE) worth of buying Arietta instead of D10 (don't saying anything about its DAC)?


----------



## littletree76

With any present Mac model (MacBook/Pro, iMac, MacMini and MacPro), the headphone output is an optical digital/analog combo jack. So you have a choice of either USB2.0 or optical on the Mac working as digital transport for D10. There is more limitations in term of sampling rate and bit resolution for USB2.0 as compared with traditional optical digital audio interface (set up with Audio MIDI Setup utility located in Applications/Utilities folder), thus the best way is to use an optical link to connect from headphone jack (mini plug) of MacBook Pro to optical input of D10 (standard Toslink plug).

 This has been the setup for connection between my iMac and various models of DAC (D1, Zero, Beresford, Octavart and DACMagic right now) working as desktop audio system.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kon-Masti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the best way to connect a Macbook pro to a D10, and then a d10 to a pair of d7000s?_


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. You should start a thread on it. It is nice to see more combos with optical input. The D10 does change a lot with different opamps and with burn in but then most all of these gadgets do. :^) I wish the Vulcan VB wasn't almost 400 dollars. Seems pricy to me, knowing the cost of assembly and materials in the east but then everything is going up._

 

i do agree it a little pricey. But for portable we only have limited choice to choose from.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mirh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you be more precise: D10 vs 3MOVE what do you mean "different flavour"? I'm thinking about Arietta and I have D3 so this information might help me to choose.
 Is crossfeed filter in Meier's amps (3MOVE) worth of buying Arietta instead of D10 (don't saying anything about its DAC)?_

 

See here: UPDATED 01/04 REVIEW 12 USB DAC amps - Predator, Pico, 2/3MOVE, D3 D2 Viper/Boa D1, Lyrix, MicroAmp, Vivid V1, Nuforce, XM5 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 It's a long read but it compares several of the amps you mentioned - early in the review there is the 2MOVE, then later the D3 and then some discussion of the 3MOVE even later on in the 1st and 2nd post. I will start my D10 review next weekend after 300 hours of burn-in.


----------



## wolfen68

Pics of my D10 setup. 

Attachment 13766

Attachment 13767

 P.S. - I already have right angle optical adapters...but as you can see, they wont gain me much over the current u-cable.


----------



## tracyrick

I have 100's of hours of experience with an h140/D1 optical setup as my main rig and I think the sound is amazing with AD797 opamps. Here are I think some helpful some comments, and random ramblings, after reading this D10 thread so far:

 Bass - To me, the D1 bass was clearly anemic with the stock LT1364 Op amp. Other people agreed. When I added the AD797 and bypassed buffers, the bass got GREAT. Much more apparent, but still very tight, no boominess. Other people agreed with this also. So maybe there is an op amp the D10 can tolerate that will increase its bass, even if the AD797 requires too much power for it.

 Ref. D10 volume knob being too easy to turn - The D1 volume knob is also too easy to turn and can be dangerous with my SE530's that don't take much volume to drive. I think iBasso should add more resistance to its volume knobs. My Portaphile V2 has nice resistance and I've never accidentally blown my ears out like i have with my D1 (ouch!).

 Ref. this comment from Hi-Flight: "I have seen camera bags in the past which are wider than they are tall and would let you put the iRiver/D10 combo in sideways, and with a 90-90 degree optical cable in a u-bend you could fit it in there nicely."

 I bought a bag exactly like that and it fits my H140/D1 very well. Sideways is the way to go for lowest profile. That being said, this rig is still somewhat of a beast for me when exercising. I also appeared to have put too much strain on my "Headphone" input jack (my headphone cable being pulled/torqued sideways against it I guess) and it is loose now and the sound cuts out so I'm asking for an RMA.

 My Sansa Clip/SE530 has now become my gym rig of choice. Amazingly, it sounds almost as great to me and is so much more manageable. I've matched my ER-4S with my D1/H140 for more sedentary activites. The ER-4S doesn't have nearly the bass of the SE530 of course, but with the D1 loaded with AD797 is does a pretty good job and of course the ER-4S opens up more treble and overall presence that the SE530 lack.

 I think iBasso has done a nice job of opening up more options for Head-fi'ers and done so at great price points. I hope the D10 proves to the next great evolution/solution for other iRiver owners, let's see how it goes...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tracyrick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
*Ref. this comment from Hi-Flight: "I have seen camera bags in the past which are wider than they are tall and would let you put the iRiver/D10 combo in sideways, and with a 90-90 degree optical cable in a u-bend you could fit it in there nicely."*_

 

Actually, that was me in post #379.

 Fortunately, my D10 volume knob is not too easy to turn, and I'm sorry about your headphone jack.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tracyrick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That being said, this rig is still somewhat of a beast for me when exercising._

 

I try to surround my self in hi-fidelity almost everywhere that I go, but there are certain places that I find that the headphone out jack is as good as you can get, and working out is one of them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 One of the true definitions of "The Law of Dimishing Returns".


----------



## mrarroyo

Aaron, have you used the iBasso T4 amp? It is super tiny but man does it sound good.

 I have been thinking of picking an 8 Gb 3rd Gen Nano to pair w/ the T4 and a low profile line out dock. Something like EFN builds.


----------



## jamato8

I am finding that the bass is getting very good. It has improved to the point that I am totally satisfied with it. 

 I have tried the D10 with the UM2, Ed. 9, ESW10JPN, HD650's and all are controlled and driven extremely well.

 I am very curious to hear the D10 at 400 hours and beyond. To me, at this point, it is sounding more like a home amp. I am very surprised.

 edit: I realize one thing I am hearing that I didn't realize I was. The soundstage is getting huge and very wide. I mean the sound on some instruments and voices is coming from way to right and left, out of my head and in front of me. I hope it doesn't change.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... it is sounding more like a home amp. I am very surprised._

 

I am very pleased with the D10 sounding more like a home amp than a portable. Very few portable amps can make this claim.


----------



## younglee200

little bit out of topic, but can the d10 drive a 250 ohm full-sized headphone by itself? (DAC + amp)

 If used purely as a DAC, can it provide enough juice for a different amp?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *younglee200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_little bit out of topic, but can the d10 drive a 250 ohm full-sized headphone by itself? (DAC + amp)

 If used purely as a DAC, can it provide enough juice for a different amp?_

 

It had no problem driving my 300 ohm HD600 up till the point I snapped my headband in half today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, if I plug the 25 ohm Denon into the DAC line out then the volume is very quiet, so I can't answer the "feed another amp" question will I try using it a desktop amp later. I planned to do that after everything was done being burned in next week.


----------



## mudhole

Hi Fi'ers
 My friend can get a new D1 under $175 for me from China (I can save the shipping, also tax.). I will mainly use it as a DAC between my pc and LD MKIII. So the size is not a problem with me.

 I am just considering whether the D10's SQ is much bettter than D1? I Know the D/A chip is defferent. 

 Ibasso doesn't sale D10 and D3 in China.


----------



## younglee200

thanks for the help.

 Does the D10 just drive the full-sized just loud or to the point where the music is quite enjoyable?

 I'm wondering whether I'll need to order another desktop amp in addition to the D10 to drive the DT770s (250ohms.)

 BTW, what does the output power of 100 mW + 100 mW signify? I thought output was supposed to be given in units of V? 

 Maybe I'm just bad with units


----------



## qusp

oops


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mudhole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Fi'ers
 My friend can get a new D1 under $175 for me from China (I can save the shipping, also tax.). I will mainly use it as a DAC between my pc and LD MKIII. So the size is not a problem with me.

 I am just considering whether the D10's SQ is much bettter than D1? I Know the D/A chip is defferent. 

 Ibasso doesn't sale D10 and D3 in China._

 

To me the D1 is very good when fed from optical but only average when fed from usb so I would guess that there are a lot of options that would be better than the D1 for usb feed and dac only duty. Wether they can be had for $175 I don't know.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It had no problem driving my 300 ohm HD600 up till the point I snapped my headband in half today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, if I plug the 25 ohm Denon into the DAC line out then the volume is very quiet, so I can't answer the "feed another amp" question will I try using it a desktop amp later. I planned to do that after everything was done being burned in next week._

 

The output of the DAC through the Aux In/Out is standard line-level output voltage, and will barely be enough to drive any phone and is not affected by the volume knob. It is designed to feed the input of another amp, not as a direct phone output.

 The line-level output voltage will drive any external amp very well.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Right, it's a voltage thing not a current thing to drive another amp (hi impedance inputs)


----------



## clasam

Hey all, what are the stock opamps? And what is included in the kit?

 Thanks,

 Jon


----------



## nc8000

Can't remember but it's all in this thread


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all, what are the stock opamps? And what is included in the kit?

 Thanks,

 Jon_

 

Here is a link read down towards the bottom,and you will see what is included.

iBasso


----------



## wolfen68

OK current D10 owners....I had an odd thing happen and if anyone can help explain it....it would be appreciated:

 I had the D10 burning in last night running on battery only. When I woke up, the battery was dead. I turned the D10 power off, connected the AC adapter and let it charge for one hour. Since I was heading to work and did not want to leave it charging for 12 plus hours, I flicked the charge switch to "off" and left it plugged in to AC. I turned the unit's main power "On" and went to work to allow it to continue burning in.

 When I came home, the unit had no sound and would not work. The AC adapter was still plugged in with the usual indicator lights. I tried to get it to work to no avail. After awhile, I switched the charge switch to "ON" and after a few minutes, the unit began to slowly work again....first with a blinking low battery indicator and then working as it should.

 It seems that the unit will not work on regular AC as an external power source...though it will charge with the switch in the charge position. What the heck?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Same as the D2 Boa, it will only run off USB power with charge set to "on", otherwise "off" disconnects the USB power from the battery and if the battery is dead it will not run till you turn the switch to "on".


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Due to the low supply voltage to the opamp sockets, there are relatively few opamps that will work well in the D10, however the upside is that those that do work are great sounding opamps!_

 

How would I go about finding out which opamps are A-okay?


----------



## mrarroyo

I just took a quick listen w/ a pair of PX100 and ESW9 and found that after 240 hours of burn-in the soundstage had collapsed from the great sound I was hearing yesterday. Lets see what happens over the next 70 to 100 hours of additional burn-in. I was hoping for 250 hours but it seems it will be more like 300+ hours.


----------



## EFN

Seems like the burn in curve is as erratic as the Xin amps. I suspect you guys will find this type of amp will stabilize within the region on 500 hours and above....


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same as the D2 Boa, it will only run off USB power with charge set to "on", otherwise "off" disconnects the USB power from the battery and if the battery is dead it will not run till you turn the switch to "on"._

 


 Thanks for your response HeadphoneAddict. It's great to know I don't have a dud (cringes to self thinking of month long RMA's).

 So if I understand correctly, you cannot use AC power with the D10 unless it is in charge mode at the same time? That seems strange as the instructions imply that the AC adapter can be used to power the device...but they also make a point (in bold) to keep the charge switch in the "Off" position when the battery does not need to be charged. 

 What would someone do if they wished to use the D10 as a dedicated desktop device....just leave the charge switch on and let it fry the battery over a couple of months?


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your response HeadphoneAddict. It's great to know I don't have a dud (cringes to self thinking of month long RMA's).

 So if I understand correctly, you cannot use AC power with the D10 unless it is in charge mode at the same time? That seems strange as the instructions imply that the AC adapter can be used to power the device...but they also make a point (in bold) to keep the charge switch in the "Off" position when the battery does not need to be charged. 

 What would someone do if they wished to use the D10 as a dedicated desktop device....just leave the charge switch on and let it fry the battery over a couple of months?_

 

I suspect there is overcharging protection implement in the circuit.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suspect there is overcharging protection implement in the circuit._

 


 There is....but the manual still warns against excessive charging.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just took a quick listen w/ a pair of PX100 and ESW9 and found that after 240 hours of burn-in the soundstage had collapsed from the great sound I was hearing yesterday. Lets see what happens over the next 70 to 100 hours of additional burn-in. I was hoping for 250 hours but it seems it will be more like 300+ hours._

 

My D2 Boa soundstage didn't fully develop till almost 600 hours and my D1 took 450 hours to stop changing and smooth out, but my D2 Viper and D3 seemed fully developed by 300 hours. The D2 Viper went through many changes in the first 200 hours with more bass then less bass then more bass at normal levels, etc. and I thought it was done at 200 and then had to change my review results after 300 hours. But the D3 had few changes from the start other than just some extra refinement and transparency.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is....but the manual still warns against excessive charging._

 

Just to be on a safe side in case the overcharging protection doesn't work?


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *younglee200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, what does the output power of 100 mW + 100 mW signify? I thought output was supposed to be given in units of V? _

 

Headphone amplifiers (just like speaker amplifiers) are rated in *output* to headphones/speakers in _watts_.
 Most headphone amps' output is less than a watt, hence the mW. A speaker amp puts out 3-1000 watts, not volts (for example).

*Input* and internal rails are measured in _volts_.

 100 mW + 100 mw means per channel. 2 channels (left and right), correct?


----------



## jamato8

100 milliwatts per channel unless you change opamps and buffers. You can have more power if you desire with a shorter run time although. One miliwatt, one thousandth of a watt. You don't always need a lot of watts or milliwatts, just clean ones, unless your drivers need lots of power and they aren't my favorite. You could use one AD8656 opamp and bypass the buffers. Good output power and a long battery run time.


----------



## wuwhere

It also depends on the impedance of your IEM/HP. As the impedance goes down, more current is needed but as impedance goes up, more voltage is needed from the amp. And impedance varies with frequency, just like loudspeakers.


----------



## Sonicpath

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well Ron has had his open. Now I will have to go and open mine. On the outside, the quality is as good as anything else in the top amps. 

 What a sound. . . . And what a pair with the H140 and my 120gb hard drive I installed. Now that is some tunes on the move. I have two 140's with the 120gb drive now and it is sweeet.


 Ok, good shiny solder joints, very good quality chips, well the whole thing has good quality components. Looks top notch to me and I have built a lot of stuff but only a few things this small._

 

Where can I find the instruction to mod my H120?


----------



## Sonicpath

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pics of my D10 setup. 

Attachment 13766

Attachment 13767

 P.S. - I already have right angle optical adapters...but as you can see, they wont gain me much over the current u-cable._

 

Just imagine have this on your hand and got to a federal building...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sonicpath* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just imagine have this on your hand and got to a federal building..._

 

Caution Flyers - Almost bought myself a strip-search - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## immtbiker

I had the same thing with the same exact ALO cable and a treadz covered iMod and an SR-71.
 Of course I also added insult to injury by forgetting a 16 bottle of Dasani in the same carry-on.
 The TSA agent looked and and said (his exact words, I kid you not): "Dude, does Wyle E. Coyote ring any bells? In the future please, all we are asking is that you take it apart before going through security". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 All I could say was, "Damn...sorry".


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_100 milliwatts per channel unless you change opamps and buffers. You can have more power if you desire with a shorter run time although. One miliwatt, one thousandth of a watt. You don't always need a lot of watts or milliwatts, just clean ones, unless your drivers need lots of power and they aren't my favorite. You could use one AD8656 opamp and bypass the buffers. Good output power and a long battery run time._

 

As John mentioned above, the AD8656 is a very good choice, and iBasso has included it in the opamp package. 
 I am using the AD8656 with the dummy buffers in place, and the sound is equal to a quality home amp. 

 I have yet to even try some of my other opamps. Maybe later. 

 The 8656 has been able to easily power everything I have thrown at it. 

 FWIW, the single LIPO cell that iBasso is using in the D10 is a very high quality battery, and there should be far fewer power supply problems with this amp than with the earlier ones that used dual cells, such as the D1.


----------



## jobski

when will the D10 be available again? i'm anxious to get one in my hands


----------



## nv88

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FWIW, the single LIPO cell that iBasso is using in the D10 is a very high quality battery, and there should be far fewer power supply problems with this amp than with the earlier ones that used dual cells, such as the D1._

 

This is great news. My first D1 was replaced because of charging issues, now my current D1 has decided not to charge any longer. Fortunately, I can still run it off AC.

 Any more comparisons between the D1 and D10, especially in terms of amp SQ?


----------



## trickywombat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nv88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is great news. My first D1 was replaced because of charging issues, now my current D1 has decided not to charge any longer. Fortunately, I can still run it off AC.

 Any more comparisons between the D1 and D10, especially in terms of amp SQ?_

 

Can't give you an authoritative comparison, but a hint at possible differences. I compared a D1 with rolled op amps and a stock D10 with little burn in.

 I had a chance to listen to a D10 for like 20 minutes which had only several hours of burn-in. I did an A/B with my iBasso D1 (1st gen with OPA2111 & LM4562). Source was ALAC/FLAC from IHP-120 -> Optical Out -> Dx
 IEM used was UE-11 Pro.
 I played songs of various genres - from acoustic to rock to jazz, instrumental to electronic.

 The most immediate difference to me was:
D10 had clearer highs without sibilance or harshness
D10 sounded more transparent. D10 was closer to my iQube while the D1 was closer to a P3 IIRC.
D1 had greater bass impact, but the D10 bass was cleaner in that the low, mid and upper bass did not smudge into each other.
However, with the UE-11 Pro, I almost prefer the milder bass on the D10 as the UE-11 is not bass-shy.
Mids - Prefer the D10 because of the clarity advantage
Headroom - The D1 seems to be able to go louder even with the D10 on high gain. But, the D10 can go softer on low gain without channel imbalance with sensitive IEMs.

 Will I be upgrading from my D1 to my D10?
 Do not have a straight forward answer. The D10 I tried was not fully burned -in, yet the audible difference (and form factor) makes the D10 very attractive. However, I do not plan to use my iRiver out of the house (paranoid about losing it), and plan to get a desktop amp and/or DAC so I do not need a D10. But, as I read more and more posts on this thread, I get closer and closer to getting a D10.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The D10 is one of the top tier headphone amps, and I am very impressed with it. With no burn-in at all and right out of the box, using the stock opamps, and listening via USB it sounded as good as the D3 via USB (with several hundred hours of burn-in, maybe 600-700 hours). 

 I now have about 215 hours on the D10 and it has become more refined sounding. So far with the D10 fed via optical out of a Macbook, I feel it ranks up there with the top amps like the Headamp Pico, RSA Predator, Meier 3MOVE. It is also very good with my iMod portable (modded ipod), so unlike the D1 it is good out of the box with analog input while the D1 needed new opamps to sound good with analog inputs.

 I hope to be at 300 hours by Sunday and can start my review in the big USB DAC amp thread. I will be reviewing it with Optical and USB inputs. So far it is very competent via USB as well.


----------



## wolfen68

I've decided that my D10 sounds good enough after 40 hours of burn-in, so I quit leaving it run and am just using it as is. I haven't done that with an amp in years.


----------



## davidw89

How does the battery recharge? How long does the battery last?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidw89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the battery recharge? How long does the battery last?_

 

It has been lasting around 20 hours for me and it recharges through the USB port on the back. The USB charges the battery and supplies the current for the dac when using the USB. When using the optical it uses the battery and when using the amp section it runs off of the battery.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElEsido* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From the Rockbox FAQ:

In general the AAC decoder in Rockbox works fairly well, however there are some known glitches such as problems with certain metadata, crashes with very long files and skipping at high bitrates (usually >192kbps). Most developers don't listen to their music in AAC, so there are few people with specific experience/focus in this area. Your best bet is to use files created by the iTunes software (not from the music store, but if you use iTunes to rip and encode a CD) as they seem to cause the fewest problems at this time. As stated above, DRM encrypted files (such as those from the iTunes Music Store) are not supported and probably never will be. 

 The best thing is probably to just try. Rockboxing a H140 is really easy with the Rockbox Utility._

 

Just scored a H-140 in what seems to be very good nick for about $150 shipped to Denmark from UK. When I get it I will RockBox it so it can take my 320KB aac files and then to try it optical with my D1 before deciding whether to go for a D10.


----------



## ElEsido

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just scored a H-140_

 

Congratulations! And welcome to the club of Apreciators of High-End Legacy shleppable Audio Equipment . Real men need real joysticks on teir DAP. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I get it I will RockBox it so it can take my 320KB aac files_

 

Great! Please let us and the guys at rockbox.org know if the aforementioned limitation still apply.


----------



## nc8000

It will be used as an alternative Travel Rig. For portable the convenience og the iPhone with the HF2 headset is so apealing that I can't see myself going back to a bigger (better) rig for that use.


----------



## Packgrog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElEsido* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From the Rockbox FAQ:

In general the AAC decoder in Rockbox works fairly well, however there are some known glitches such as problems with certain metadata, crashes with very long files and skipping at high bitrates (usually >192kbps). Most developers don't listen to their music in AAC, so there are few people with specific experience/focus in this area. Your best bet is to use files created by the iTunes software (not from the music store, but if you use iTunes to rip and encode a CD) as they seem to cause the fewest problems at this time. As stated above, DRM encrypted files (such as those from the iTunes Music Store) are not supported and probably never will be. 

 The best thing is probably to just try. Rockboxing a H140 is really easy with the Rockbox Utility._

 

Last time I tried AAC files on my H120, they played just fine. This text may be outdated. Yes, there were problems with AAC > 192kbps at one time, but that was a while ago. Should be fine. If not, switch to Ogg, MP3, or FLAC. All work great.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jobski* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_when will the D10 be available again? i'm anxious to get one in my hands 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I just got an email from iBasso that it will be available again in mid-February.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jobski* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_when will the D10 be available again? i'm anxious to get one in my hands 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

In the middle of Feb.


----------



## dazzer1975

good purchase nc8000 I was watching that (and other iriver auctions) but have decided to pre-order a d10 instead of getting another h1xx series player.

 I am almost salivating reading what you guys are writing about the iriver/d10 combo


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just scored a H-140 in what seems to be very good nick for about $150 shipped to Denmark from UK. When I get it I will RockBox it so it can take my 320KB aac files and then to try it optical with my D1 before deciding whether to go for a D10._

 

I am using ALAC with my rockboxed H140 with no problems.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just scored a H-140 in what seems to be very good nick for about $150 shipped to Denmark from UK. When I get it I will RockBox it so it can take my 320KB aac files and then to try it optical with my D1 before deciding whether to go for a D10._

 

Excellent and a good price.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good purchase nc8000 I was watching that (and other iriver auctions) but have decided to pre-order a d10 instead of getting another h1xx series player.

 I am almost salivating reading what you guys are writing about the iriver/d10 combo_

 

And it jumped £24 within the last 15 seconds, good job I had left plenty og leeway to my max offer.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And it jumped £24 within the last 15 seconds, good job I had left plenty og leeway to my max offer._

 

you need to with those old irivers, always in such high demand.

 As a side note, a view often expressed over at misticriver and which has much merit, is that if a manufacturer could produce a dap along the lines of the old irivers re large capacity, multi functional with high quality connection options such as optical they would be quids in. It wouldn't take much doing either, this isn't new technology, its all been done before and could complement their existing product lines.

 Imagine the kind of players we would be seeing today if iriver had chosen to evolve their h series players as opposed doing away with them, it almost doesnt bare thinking about for the techy gadget lovers amongst us.


----------



## HiFlight

I spent some time today going thru my supply of opamps that might be compatible with the D10. 

 The list below is certainly not all-inclusive, but is a pretty good representation of the ones that will function in the D10, considering the low supply voltage. 

 I evaluated them without buffers, so as to hear the true signature of the opamp. I used high-bitrate music, both instrumental and vocal fed to the Aux input of the D10 from my iRiver H-CF32

 As I only wanted to evaluate the amp section, I did not use the optical output of the iRiver. 

 I will say at the outset that the circuit design of the D10 flattered whatever opamp I tried; there were no bad ones in the bunch. 

 Some that I thought might work didn't, and some that I doubted would work did....go figure! 

 I used both my Sennheiser IE8s for IEM, and my recabled Grado RS-1s for full-sized phones. 

 As I do not want to get into subjective "which is best" discussions, I simply ranked them based on treble vs bass balance, or from brightest to darkest. 

 My ranking is as follows: 

 ADA4841-2
 AD8599
 AD8616 (good buffers)
 AD8397 (built-in buffers)
 AD743
 LMA6643 
 AD746
 TLC2202
 LTC6241HV (LTC6241 would also work just fine)
 EL8201 (good buffers)
 OPA2111
 AD823
 OPA2604
 THS4032
 OPA2134
 LMH6655 (good buffers)
 AD8656
 AD8066 (with AD708 buffers) 
 AD2228
 AD2227
 OPA2350

 Widest soundstages were found in AD8066, OPA2111, OPA2604, AD8656 and AD746, respectively.

 Most output power (without buffers)

 AD8397: 320ma
 AD8656: 220ma
 AD8616 150ma
 THS4032 80ma
 LMH6655 80ma

 Opamps that I thought might work but didn't: AD8620, LM6622, LME49720 (LM4562), AD797 (SOIC) OPA627 (OPA 627 initally worked fine, but only for a short period of time. Likely on the very edge of its voltage envelop with a fully charged battery.) 


 Note that the AD8397 has built-in buffers, so I would not suggest using additional buffers. This opamp has sometimes been criticized for its highs, but in the D10, it performed really well.

 My recommendations: 
 If you have bright phones and/or are a basshead, go with the darker opamps, if you like detail and sparkle, or have dark phones, try the brighter ones.


----------



## ap1978

Pioneer HDJ-2000 with iBasso D10 - a good combination?

 Got my Pioneer HDJ-2000 headphones today and now I'm wondering if you specialists out there can shed some light on how suitable the iBasso D10 would be paired up with this. Pioneer HDJ-2000 specs.

 Thanks in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Placed an order for it now


----------



## immtbiker

Guys, those posts were spam. Please report them if you see somebody with *one *post linking to another site for free this or free that.


----------



## iriverdude

Looks good but shame volume and headphone socket would be opposite on the bottom.


----------



## dazzer1975

where do you guys buy your op amps from? When the d10 arrives it will be the first amp I have had that allows me to roll the op amps, and would like to explore a couple of the options listed in HiFlights post.

 I see the d10 comes with the AD8656 so that sounds like a good one for power and bass which I am interested in, but still, would be nice to see what different sound signatures can be derived from the op amps.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_where do you guys buy your op amps from? When the d10 arrives it will be the first amp I have had that allows me to roll the op amps, and would like to explore a couple of the options listed in HiFlights post.

 I see the d10 comes with the AD8656 so that sounds like a good one for power and bass which I am interested in, but still, would be nice to see what different sound signatures can be derived from the op amps._

 

I buy all mine from HiFlight


----------



## immtbiker

I just wrote iBasso to inquire on when I might receive my amp and instantly got this return message:


 Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mx7.dns.com.cn.
 您好,经过多次尝试仍无法投递您的邮件,失败原因请参看中文的提示信息(仅供参考)：
 I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.

 <order@ibasso.com>:
 domain is over quota


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just wrote iBasso to inquire on when I might receive my amp and instantly got this return message:


 Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mx7.dns.com.cn.
 您好,经过多次尝试仍无法投递您的邮件,失败原因请参看中文的提示信息(仅供参考)：
 I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.

 <order@ibasso.com>:
 domain is over quota_

 

Go to their website and use the contact weblink over there to email them.


----------



## Ney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OT: The H120/H140 can also be modified for SDHC using an adapter. CF spec only goes to 137GB but SDXC goes up to 2TB.

SDXC - SD Association_

 

Can you get 1.8" IDE to SD adapters? Because using the CF mod and then an an SD to CF adapter will still make the system limited by the CF maximum capacity of 137gb.


----------



## mimi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I spent some time today going thru my supply of opamps that might be compatible with the D10. 

 ....
_

 

Thanks for the effort, HiFlight. Noticed that you didn't list any single supply OpAmps; is this because there isn't space in the D10 for the use of 2-to-1 adaptors? If so, did you try using a few of your favourites, e.g. AD743, AD797 without the case attached, just for the fun of it?


----------



## jamato8

There is also the constraints of the voltage.


----------



## arirug

I just received this mail from Ibasso:

 Dear Sir,
 Thank you for your email.
 The D10 will available again in Mid Feb. We will ship your order once it is ready.

 Best Regards,
 iBasso Audio


----------



## arirug

edit


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mimi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the effort, HiFlight. Noticed that you didn't list any single supply OpAmps; is this because there isn't space in the D10 for the use of 2-to-1 adaptors? If so, did you try using a few of your favourites, e.g. AD743, AD797 without the case attached, just for the fun of it?_

 

There is not space for a DIP case style, but single-channel SOIC opamps mounted on the stacked Browndog adapter will fit. It is a very delicate soldering operation to mount these. 

 The AD797 will not work due to voltage, but the OPA627 sounds magnificent when coupled with the AD8656 used as buffers! 

 Sort of like driving a Ferrari...Very expensive, great performance, but you can't go very far on a tank of gas! 

 I expect battery life to suffer from this combination. I will try get an approximation of play time for this combo. 

 I would have to say that to my ears, this combination is right up there with the best home amps!

 I still have some other opamps I want to try when I get them mounted on adapters. I will add to my list as I find others that are compatible with the D10.

 ****POSTSCRIPT****
 After about 6 hours of listening, the OPA627 began a continuous background of white noise. Apparently, it is functioning right on the edge of its voltage envelop in the D10. Considering the very short time that it functions properly, I can no longer recommend it.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Go to their website and use the contact weblink over there to email them._

 


 I've also had the best luck doing this. My two recent questions were answered within a day or two. 

 One of these was an inquiry on the expected life of the battery...the answer was the standard for Li-polymer cells (500 charge cycles). Of more interest is that replacement batteries will be available (from ibasso) for purchase if needed. If the D10 continues to be the only product in this niche, I may be holding on to one for as long as I can. How long will these batteries be available? They didn't say and I doubt they know.

 My search for a case/pouch to house my H140 and D10 strapped together has come to a temporary end. I purchased a $14.95 Tamrac MX5378 camera lens case from B&H. 

Tamrac | MX5378 M.A.S. Lens Case - Large | MX537801 | B&H Photo

 The combo fits inside nearly perfect and can stand up (headphone jack up) with no stress on the optical cable if you stick a little square of foam in half of the bottom. It has a belt loop and should be perfect for some portable DAC magic while mowing the lawn.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Go to their website and use the contact weblink over there to email them._

 

OK, thanks. I just did.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ It has a belt loop and should be perfect for some portable DAC magic while mowing the lawn._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tracyrick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ That being said, this rig is still somewhat of a beast for me when exercising._

 

You guys are lunatics. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Even if an IEM sealed out 32db's of ambient noise, why would you use a dac/amp combo when exercising or lawn mowing (this is not meant to be a personal attack on anyone, I am just using the quotes for references).
 The whole idea of using an iMod/amp combo or a DAP as a transport with an optical out, using a Predator or Pico or iBasso amp/dac combo, is to get the best presentation of a lossless file in a portable setup.
 Unless you are fully concentrating and totally immersed in the music, without any outside interferences, then all of this seems unnecessary to me. Overkill, so to speak.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is not space for a DIP case style, but single-channel SOIC opamps mounted on the stacked Browndog adapter will fit. It is a very delicate soldering operation to mount these. 

 The AD797 will not work due to voltage, but the OPA627 sounds magnificent when coupled with the AD8656 used as buffers! 

 Sort of like driving a Ferrari...Very expensive, great performance, but you can't go very far on a tank of gas! 

 I expect battery life to suffer from this combination. I will try get an approximation of play time for this combo. 

 I would have to say that to my ears, this combination is right up there with the best home amps!

 I still have some other opamps I want to try when I get them mounted on adapters. I will add to my list as I find others that are compatible with the D10._

 

The D2 Viper sounded good with OPA627 but I couldn't get the case back on because the SOIC single channel over-under stacked 2:1 was one mm too tall. I will try it on the D10 later.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys are lunatics. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Even if an IEM sealed out 32db's of ambient noise, why would you use a dac/amp combo when exercising or lawn mowing..._

 

I use a custom IEM with "industrial grade" earmuffs. The double hearing protection/isolation is very effective at making lawn mowers and chainsaws only a distant minor impact on the listener's enjoyment. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The whole idea of using an iMod/amp combo or a DAP as a transport with an optical out, using a Predator or Pico or iBasso amp/dac combo, is to get the best presentation of a lossless file in a portable setup.
 Unless you are fully concentrating and totally immersed in the music, without any outside interferences, then all of this seems unnecessary to me. Overkill, so to speak._

 

Using a DAC with the H140 instead of the regular lineout or headphone jack provides a clear improvement even in the presence of background noise. The presentation is so much more clear and enjoyable. 

 I've owned a 2006 MicroDAC for years which sounds great....however I was not "lunatic (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)" enough to try wearing that with an amp while on the move.

 The D10 is just the product I've been waiting for as it allows me the higher level of quality with nearly no compromises. Not counting the optical u-cable, the H140/D10 is the same size as my previous portable rig (the H140/SR71a)...and I have to tell you...it sounds much better with the optical connection in play even with lowly LAME V1 mp3's.


----------



## tracyrick

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys are lunatics. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Even if an IEM sealed out 32db's of ambient noise, why would you use a dac/amp combo when exercising or lawn mowing (this is not meant to be a personal attack on anyone, I am just using the quotes for references).
 The whole idea of using an iMod/amp combo or a DAP as a transport with an optical out, using a Predator or Pico or iBasso amp/dac combo, is to get the best presentation of a lossless file in a portable setup.
 Unless you are fully concentrating and totally immersed in the music, without any outside interferences, then all of this seems unnecessary to me. Overkill, so to speak._

 

I'll try to help you. I'm the guy who bikes/snowboards/lifts weights with my H140/D1 combo. I've thought about what you just asked every since I started using this rig. Why do I put up with this beast?

 It's a good question. The answer comes down to this: The only time I have to listen to my high quality rig is when doing those things. Other times I'm either working a desk (can't have headphones on) or driving my car (have high-end, self-installed car audio system) or hanging out with family/friends, or sleeping. If you're proposing I just sit around and listen to my rig in a quiet room for hours, that would bore me to death. The fact is that my IEM's are very isolating and I think I really do hear the quality, regardless of my outside environment. In summary, I want to know that I'm listening to the best quality I can during the time I have to listen to it.

 All that being said, my 8GB Sansa Clip is the first tiny player that may finally convince me to switch to a smaller form factor for exercise - on most days I think it sounds that good. Of course then what will I do with my beast rig? Dunno yet. Also, I'm not sure my 8GB Clip (with 256kbs MP3s) can totally replace my 40GB h120 loaded with FLAC files. And maybe, just maybe, my Clip does not really sound as good as my beast rig and I am making a bad move by switching to it!


----------



## tracyrick

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use a custom IEM with "industrial grade" earmuffs. The double hearing protection/isolation is very effective at making lawn mowers and chainsaws only a distant minor impact on the listener's enjoyment._

 

Holy crap! I've always wanted to try that, I was wondering if anyone else ever had. Only thing stopping me is I don't have the earmuffs. My thought was doing that for long plane rides, earmuffs on top of IEMs. Totally brilliant. Only downside is your stuck with carrying the earmuffs too, so you're not quite as portable anymore.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is not space for a DIP case style, but single-channel SOIC opamps mounted on the stacked Browndog adapter will fit. It is a very delicate soldering operation to mount these. 

 The AD797 will not work due to voltage, but the OPA627 sounds magnificent when coupled with the AD8656 used as buffers! 

 Sort of like driving a Ferrari...Very expensive, great performance, but you can't go very far on a tank of gas! 

 I expect battery life to suffer from this combination. I will try get an approximation of play time for this combo. 

 I would have to say that to my ears, this combination is right up there with the best home amps!

 I still have some other opamps I want to try when I get them mounted on adapters. I will add to my list as I find others that are compatible with the D10._

 

So you used a dual adapter for the 627?

 I was looking at the case last night and I have to say that I am really glad they went to the anodized semi flat black finish. To me it looks much nicer, there are no fingerprints and well, I just like the feel. I asked about this maybe a year ago and I am glad they finally went with this finish.


----------



## iriverdude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tracyrick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy crap! I've always wanted to try that, I was wondering if anyone else ever had. Only thing stopping me is I don't have the earmuffs. My thought was doing that for long plane rides, earmuffs on top of IEMs. Totally brilliant. Only downside is your stuck with carrying the earmuffs too, so you're not quite as portable anymore._

 

You'll look a bit daft with ear muffs.


----------



## tracyrick

dude, when I'm carrying my beast rig I already look daft. Big old fanny pack on my hip! The muffs will just complement the look


----------



## iriverdude

You sure will

http://images.teamsugar.com/files/us...icture%201.png


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you used a dual adapter for the 627?
 ...............................snip............... ........................_

 

Yes, I used the Browndog stacked SOIC to DIP adapter. I just fits by a hair. Unfortunately, there are very few single-channel opamps available in SOIC configuration that will play with 4.5-5 volts. I think the OPA627 is one of the few. Unfortunately the AD797 in SOIC will not come to life with 5 volts.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use a custom IEM with "industrial grade" earmuffs._

 

When you say "earmuffs", do you mean industrial noise protection muffs like this:






 ...or cold weather ones like this:


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you say "earmuffs", do you mean industrial noise protection muffs like this:







 ...or cold weather ones like this:




_

 


 If you're serious, I'm referring to the first type with a documented NRR rating used in industrial settings


----------



## Dublo7

So has anyone here used the D10 with full sized headphones, like the DT880? 
 iBasso still have to announce their desktop amp, right?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dublo7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So has anyone here used the D10 with full sized headphones, like the DT880? 
 iBasso still have to announce their desktop amp, right?_

 

So far it drives my HD600 fairly well, and does a very good job with ESW10, Grado RS-1, woodied re-cabled Denon D2000, and Edition 9, It also sounds very good with my IEMs.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you're serious, I'm referring to the first type with a documented NRR rating used in industrial settings_

 

I *was* serious. I sometimes work in factories and bottling plants and I am a general aviation pilot and have to wear those, but I never heard them referred to as "earmuffs".

 Now I see how you can mow the lawn while enjoying your music.

 Sorry for the OT.

 I too, used to walk around with a H-120/MicroDac/SR-71. It will be a pleasure to use my D-10 (when I finally get it) and just an H-120. I fly for business an average of 3 days a week and am currently using an iMod with ALO cable and a Mustang with my UE-10's.


----------



## jamato8

The Mustang sounds great with the D10 as the dac and the D10 amp/dac is sounding so very fine. Great fun to be able to use all the different amps and this just tells me how good the dac is. 

 I was walking around tonight While Amy was shopping and again, as in about a week ago, what great sound I was getting with the D10, what fun. Since I upgraded my H140 to have the 120gb hard drive I have a huge selection of lossless music.

 No, I really don't feel like comparing the D10 amp and the Mustang and or Xin's amp etc. They all sound good to me. :^) just different flavors.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Mustang sounds great with the D10 as the dac and the D10 amp/dac is sounding so very fine. Great fun to be able to use all the different amps and this just tells me how good the dac is. 

 I was walking around tonight While Amy was shopping and again, as in about a week ago, what great sound I was getting with the D10, what fun. Since I upgraded my H140 to have the 120gb hard drive I have a huge selection of lossless music.

 No, I really don't feel like comparing the D10 amp and the Mustang and or Xin's amp etc. They all sound good to me. :^) just different flavors._

 

Many times it is difficult to pick which amp is better, for that reason that they are slightly different flavors but both good.


----------



## Dublo7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far it drives my HD600 fairly well, and does a very good job with ESW10, Grado RS-1, woodied re-cabled Denon D2000, and Edition 9, It also sounds very good with my IEMs._

 

Wow, that's quite impressive. I'd love to buy this amp when it comes back in stock.


----------



## Nimrad

Anybody know how many they're gonna get in mid-feb? Do I have to pre-order?


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many times it is difficult to pick which amp is better, for that reason that they are slightly different flavors but both good._

 

This is really the "problem" I am having. Trying to decide which is the best portable amp anymore is getting more difficult as their overall quality has evolved beyond my ear's ability to determine this.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is really the "problem" I am having. Trying to decide which is the best portable amp anymore is getting more difficult as their overall quality has evolved beyond my ear's ability to determine this._

 

Well, here is what I am doing with my 10 portable amps.

 I use the Predator in my pocket with a Nano for portable
 I use the XM5 with iMod/portable vcaps.
 I use the Pico with DAC as a DAC/pre-amp in my Livingroom/basement Electrostatic rig (to feed Woo GES).
 I use the 3MOVE as DAC amp with the iMac in the kitchen on USB only without 9v battery (so I don't have to remember to turn off).
 I use the iBasso D10 with my bedroom Macbook Pro rig via optical (and charge via USB).
 I use the Headroom Micro DAC and Micro Amp (alternating with TTVJ Millett amp) in my bedside rig with optical H140/D-EJ2000 sources.
 My 11 yr old son is using the Nuforce with the kid's Macbook and he likes it with his MS-1, and Travagans Colors/E3 with his iPod.

 All the rest are spares and for comparison or collection (Meier Headsix, D3 Python, D2 Boa, Vivid V1). And people wonder why I am reluctant to acquire more amps to review...


----------



## tako_tsubo

Larry...how is the D10 sounding used just as a usb DAC...say against the Pico?


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, here is what I am doing with my 10 portable amps...
 ...All the rest are spares and for comparison or collection_

 

Maybe I should custom title you and skylab "Portabullus Ampus Supremus" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...and jamato8, and HiFlight, and...my goodness we have gone from *Stadium Rock* to _*Alternative*_ (metaphorically speaking, of course)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tako_tsubo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry...how is the D10 sounding used just as a usb DAC...say against the Pico?_

 

Only briefly tried it as DAC only but wasn't ready to compare to Pico, sorry. D10 as DAC/amp via USB is every bit as good as the D3 which was probably 95% of the Pico. With 275 hours burn-in and via optical from Macbook Pro, during a q0 minute comparison it seems pretty close to the Pico, as was the Headroom Micro DAC/Amp combo. 

 I have only done a couple of very brief (10 minute) comparisons to other amps during the burn-in, but not enough to make any real lasting determinations yet - early on I compared with the D3 with both via USB, and more recently D10 optical vs Pico USB. I'll hit about 300 hours later tomorrow night when I can start getting serious about my review next week.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe I should custom title you and skylab "Portabullus Ampus Supremus" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...and jamato8, and HiFlight, and...my goodness we have gone from *Stadium Rock* to *Alternative* (metaphorically speaking, of course) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's fine with me. I asked Jude to award me with a title that said "Jefe, would you say I have a plethora of headphones and amps?"


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe I should custom title you and skylab "Portabullus Ampus Supremus" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...and jamato8, and HiFlight, and...my goodness we have gone from *Stadium Rock* to *Alternative* (metaphorically speaking, of course) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

PS: It's not just a plethora of portable amps - have you seen my public profile lately?


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS: It's not just a plethora of portable amps - have you seen my public profile lately? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Sir, it's people like you that make Head-Fi the great place that it is!


----------



## immtbiker

Comparing the D-10 is a vital task at hand, being that the Pico and Predator are nearly twice the price!


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nimrad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody know how many they're gonna get in mid-feb? Do I have to pre-order?_

 

I was sent an email today saying that they expect to have more in 7-10 days.


----------



## RAQemUP

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's fine with me. I asked Jude to award me with a title that said "Jefe, would you say I have a plethora of headphones and amps?"_

 

Three Amigos FTW!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nimrad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody know how many they're gonna get in mid-feb? Do I have to pre-order?_

 

I guess once the "Out Of Stock" warning is gone then they can be ordered. I already ordered ordered my optic cables and adapters from Sys Concept. All I need now is a D10.


----------



## jamato8

I have too many portables but it does help in answering questions. I guess I have around 25 to 30 now.


----------



## Dublo7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have too many portables but it does help in answering questions. I guess I have around 25 to 30 now._

 

You remind me of my brother in a way. He has about 20 pairs of sneakers.

 Which of your portables do you listen to the most?

 And also, what is your occupation? You must have some cash


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was sent an email today saying that they expect to have more in 7-10 days._

 

I wrote them twice last week (including using their contact link on their website) and still haven't received a response from them. 

 They were quick to take my money, though.


----------



## jamato8

I have tried emailing them and it bounces back. It would seem either their mailbox is full but I don't see how since even mine is unlimited or something else is wrong. I am sure they will pop up . . .


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dublo7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You remind me of my brother in a way. He has about 20 pairs of sneakers.

 Which of your portables do you listen to the most?

 And also, what is your occupation? You must have some cash 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I work in an intensive care unit. It pays pretty good. I have sold some stuff recently like my Little Dot Micro tube and some other things in trying to shrink my inventory but then I turn around and buy another one! :6)

 I enjoy the D10 much, the Mustang P-51, the SR-71A and a few others.


----------



## jamato8

I heard from iBasso on my question as to when the D10's will be ready. They said in one week from today, 2 8 09 and that they will test them and then start sending them out.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess once the "Out Of Stock" warning is gone then they can be ordered. I already ordered ordered my optic cables and adapters from Sys Concept. All I need now is a D10._

 

you can order now if you wanted.

 Don't like to state the obvious but if it wasn't apparent to you I thought I ould let you know just in case. Obviously though, you won't be getting it until they start making them again after their break.

 Also, what dimensions and details did you give for the sys concept order?

 I have exchanged several emails with the guy there and even though I mentioned the d10 and the iriver and head fi etc etc he still keeps saying to measure the distance between the two machines.

 Trouble is, I dont have my d10 yet, but would like to get the cables ordered so I can listen to it once it does get here.


----------



## dazzer1975

as an aside, ive almost been brought to tears listening to adele's hometown glory on her 19 album.

 line out from ihp 120 into iqube with my koss 75c.

 I really REALLY want to see what this sounds like using the optical connection on the d10's dac feeding the iqube. If anyone has the same gear can they take a listen and see what your impressions are too, cause these earphones amaze me every time I listen to em.


----------



## immtbiker

They wrote me back this a.m. and gave me the same mid-February ETA.
 I wouldn't want them to rush out the newest batch. Let them test them as long as they like.

 I just needed to hear that they received my money and confirm they had my order.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have exchanged several emails with the guy there and even though I mentioned the d10 and the iriver and head fi etc etc he still keeps saying to measure the distance between the two machines.

 Trouble is, I dont have my d10 yet, but would like to get the cables ordered so I can listen to it once it does get here._

 

Jamato did a service earlier in the thread and provided a nice picture with the measurement. I believe it was 3 cm.

 When I ordered mine I got a 4 cm with toslink flare downward (for when H140 is on top of D10). I figured it was smart to error larger than smaller since I didn't yet have the D10 (and I use an iskin which takes up space).

 For the heck of it I also ordered a mini-toslink to toslink adapter so my other optical cables from my MicroDAC system would work also.


----------



## dazzer1975

wicked stuff, cheers for that my good man, appreciate the info


----------



## HiFlight

I have removed the OPA627 from my list of functioning D10 opamps due to the extremely short time of proper operation. As the battery voltage drops a bit, a white noise background becomes evident and increases with further use.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you can order now if you wanted.

 Don't like to state the obvious but if it wasn't apparent to you I thought I ould let you know just in case. Obviously though, you won't be getting it until they start making them again after their break.

 Also, what dimensions and details did you give for the sys concept order?

 I have exchanged several emails with the guy there and even though I mentioned the d10 and the iriver and head fi etc etc he still keeps saying to measure the distance between the two machines.

 Trouble is, I dont have my d10 yet, but would like to get the cables ordered so I can listen to it once it does get here._

 

In the order form I specified a short cable 3cm C2C, one with shells and another one without shells.


----------



## mrarroyo

My D10 is at the 390+ hours of burn in. I just did a test using an Audio Technica ESW9 and a Philips DVP5982 as a source. First I tried the D10 being fed using a BJC coaxial cable and then the analog out via a Kimber RCA to Mini. BTW the D10 is still in its stock configuration.

 I feel the sound is more coherent and less shrill with a bit better bass impact when I use the coaxial in. For comparison I then I compared it with a Xin Reference (B-Board) w/ about 350 hours of burn-in. IMO the Xin was superior in the overall presentation of the amp section although it got much closer w/ the D10 being fed via the Coaxial. The differences were minor w/ the coaxial, but much more noticeable w/ the analog input. Personally I am not surprised since IMO the latest generation of amps by Xin is it.

 HiFlight, what would be your top three combinations of op-amps to sound better in the D10 over the stock ones? Please do not mention the 627 which I understand uses the battery way too fast.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wrote them twice last week (including using their contact link on their website) and still haven't received a response from them. 

 They were quick to take my money, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Yeah, when I emailed them 2 days prior to this last email, I got the same mailbox full message, so maybe they are a bit overwhelmed right now...

 Jon


----------



## EFN

I am still waiting for a detailed review of the optical DAC for D10. Or perhaps I should order now and do the review myself LOL!

 As much as I love my PCM1793 DAC, it will be nice to have a much smaller unit like D10 in place.

 Of course the DAC will be feeding my MiniBox-E+ thorugh the line out.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am still waiting for a detailed review of the optical DAC for D10. Or perhaps I should order now and do the review myself LOL!

 As much as I love my PCM1793 DAC, it will be nice to have a much smaller unit like D10 in place.

 Of course the DAC will be feeding my MiniBox-E+ thorugh the line out._

 

Now that would be another rumble, the D10 vs. the PCM1793 DAC/MBE+.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.........................................
 .......................................snip....... ..............................

 HiFlight, what would be your top three combinations of op-amps to sound better in the D10 over the stock ones? Please do not mention the 627 which I understand uses the battery way too fast._

 

THS4032 with bypassed buffers or with the AD8656 buffers for a little warmer sound. 
 AD8397 bypassed buffers (I am now using this config.) This opamp sounds better in the D10 than many other amps I have tried it in. This opamp has a more distant soundstage, which I prefer over sitting in the middle of the band.
 LTC6241HV with AD8656 buffers
 AD8656 bypassed buffers

 I did not list any opamps that did not sound good in the D10. 


 Lots of good choices now. See previously posted listing, post 439, page 30 of this thread. They are ranked tonally, from light to dark.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am still waiting for a detailed review of the optical DAC for D10. Or perhaps I should order now and do the review myself LOL!
_

 

So far, my ears tell me the D10 is definitely in the ballpark of the MicroDAC. That alone coupled with the small size makes it the portable winner.


----------



## jamato8

The way the dac sounds with other amps tells me it is doing a great job. I love my Monica II dac but the D10 is different in a good way and I have to say to have the choice of a nonoversampling asynchronous dac as in Monica and the much newer and very different design in the D10 dac is just plain fun. They are both top flight, for that HiFlight feeling. :^) 

 Now to roll those opamps. Ok Ron, I am going to try the 8397.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far, my ears tell me the D10 is definitely in the ballpark of the MicroDAC. That alone coupled with the small size makes it the portable winner._

 

If that is true, then you can also factor in the fact that a pretty decent amp is also included in the small size. Looking forward to receiving mine.


----------



## HiFlight

For those needing only a DAC to couple with your T4, etc, hold on for a bit. Maybe, just maybe, iBasso will be offering the D10 DAC circuitry by itself as a standalone DAC!!! 

 Please don't email them, just wait patiently...good things come to those who wait!


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those needing only a DAC to couple with your T4, etc, hold on for a bit. Maybe, just maybe, iBasso will be offering the D10 DAC circuitry by itself as a standalone DAC!!! 

 Please don't email them, just wait patiently...good things come to those who wait!_

 

Wow. this is probably one of the best news I have heard so far....


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...good things come to those who wait!_

 

I've been waiting my whole life


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been waiting my whole life 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

DOH...that sounded so sad


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those needing only a DAC to couple with your T4, etc, hold on for a bit. Maybe, just maybe, iBasso will be offering the D10 DAC circuitry by itself as a standalone DAC!!! 
_

 

This is really what I wanted originally as I'm pretty happy with my current amps. However, the D10 as a amp/dac combo is already a nice size and sounds great.

 If the D10 "lite" was much smaller....that might pique my interest.


----------



## jamato8

Wow, I hear a lot more upper end energy with the 8397 and buffers bypassed. Very different and worth a listen.


----------



## HiFlight

As I have continued testing my cases of opamps, I finally hit on a combination that I like personally like better than any other I have yet tried. I have, up to this point, avoided expression my preferences, but this sounds so good, I will pass it on for "field-testing" :>)

 I am using the AD8066 with the iBasso-supplied AD708 buffers. 
 The AD8066 is noted for its wide soundstage, imaging and accurate low end. 

 It seems as though the AD708 buffers enhance the already superb imaging and soundstage of the 8066, resulting in an amazingly realistic, 3-dimensional soundstage. This sense of realism holds up well even at lower volume settings. Transient response is also outstanding. Highs are detailed and crisp but without sibilance. 

 I tried different genre's... massed vocals, acoustic, orchestral and they all sounded the same: excellent!

 I am surmising that the buffers are isolating the 8066 from the stray capacitance and inductance effects of the headphone load, but whatever the reason, it is a really fine sounding combination. 

 The only possible fly in this ointment is that the 8066 specs list 5v as the lower end of the supply voltage range, and I am not sure what will happen as the battery in the D10 nears exhaustion. Also, the current draw of this combination is higher than some of the other 8616/8656 combos, so battery life may be a bit shorter. I will run this combination until it quits and see how the 8066 handles voltage a bit lower than spec. I hope it fares better than the OPA627.


----------



## EFN

HiFlight, I can't agree more. The AD8066 is the dual version of AD8065. And it was the combo of AD8065 pairs that actually swayed me to keep my MiniBox-E+ instead of the Lisa III because they are simply stunning and stood neck to neck with the great Lisa III with commanding authority.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I have continued testing my cases of opamps, I finally hit on a combination that I like personally like better than any other I have yet tried. I have, up to this point, avoided expression my preferences, but this sounds so good, I will pass it on for "field-testing" :>)

 I am using the AD8066 with the iBasso-supplied AD708 buffers. 
 The AD8066 is noted for its wide soundstage, imaging and accurate low end. 

 It seems as though the AD708 buffers enhance the already superb imaging and soundstage of the 8066, resulting in an amazingly realistic, 3-dimensional soundstage. This sense of realism holds up well even at lower volume settings. Transient response is also outstanding. Highs are detailed and crisp but without sibilance. 

 I tried different genre's... massed vocals, acoustic, orchestral and they all sounded the same: excellent!

 I am surmising that the buffers are isolating the 8066 from the stray capacitance and inductance effects of the headphone load, but whatever the reason, it is a really fine sounding combination. 

 The only possible fly in this ointment is that the 8066 specs list 5v as the lower end of the supply voltage range, and I am not sure what will happen as the battery in the D10 nears exhaustion. Also, the current draw of this combination is higher than some of the other 8616/8656 combos, so battery life may be a bit shorter. I will run this combination until it quits and see how the 8066 handles voltage a bit lower than spec. I hope it fares better than the OPA627._

 

Interesting. Does the 8066 come with the D10, or would they need to be purchased elsewhere?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. Does the 8066 come with the D10, or would they need to be purchased elsewhere?_

 

It doesn't come with the kit of the D10. I found the AD8397 just a bit aggressive but it was very dynamic. 

 I am listening to the 8066 and stock buffers combo.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. Does the 8066 come with the D10, or would they need to be purchased elsewhere?_

 

The AD8066 is not included with the D10. The only case style that can be used with the D10 is the SOIC and it needs to be soldered onto an adapter. 

 I would wait before ordering if you don't already have one, as I am still not sure how it will perform as the battery voltage decreases. As it is a lithium cell, it won't drop very much in voltage before exhaustion, but still the overall performance of the 8066 should be fully evaluated in the D10 before spending money on a purchase.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I have continued testing my cases of opamps, I finally hit on a combination that I like personally like better than any other I have yet tried. I have, up to this point, avoided expression my preferences, but this sounds so good, I will pass it on for "field-testing" :>)

 I am using the AD8066 with the iBasso-supplied AD708 buffers. 
 The AD8066 is noted for its wide soundstage, imaging and accurate low end. 

 It seems as though the AD708 buffers enhance the already superb imaging and soundstage of the 8066, resulting in an amazingly realistic, 3-dimensional soundstage. This sense of realism holds up well even at lower volume settings. Transient response is also outstanding. Highs are detailed and crisp but without sibilance. 

 I tried different genre's... massed vocals, acoustic, orchestral and they all sounded the same: excellent!

 I am surmising that the buffers are isolating the 8066 from the stray capacitance and inductance effects of the headphone load, but whatever the reason, it is a really fine sounding combination. 

 The only possible fly in this ointment is that the 8066 specs list 5v as the lower end of the supply voltage range, and I am not sure what will happen as the battery in the D10 nears exhaustion. Also, the current draw of this combination is higher than some of the other 8616/8656 combos, so battery life may be a bit shorter. I will run this combination until it quits and see how the 8066 handles voltage a bit lower than spec. I hope it fares better than the OPA627._

 

Interestingly I should have/had an AD8066 from my iBasso D1 days, so I need to see what have left since I traded the D1 for an SRD-7 Pro.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD8066 is not included with the D10. The only case style that can be used with the D10 is the SOIC and it needs to be soldered onto an adapter. 

 I would wait before ordering if you don't already have one, as I am still not sure how it will perform as the battery voltage decreases. As it is a lithium cell, it won't drop very much in voltage before exhaustion, but still the overall performance of the 8066 should be fully evaluated in the D10 before spending money on a purchase._

 

Will do. Thanks for the comments to you and Jamato.


----------



## theory_87

Just bought my D10 from a local dealer. After messing around, the default configuration is the best suit for me. Waiting on your research on AD8066. 

 For the Sys. Concept Toslink to Toslink Angled 90deg adaptor, does it come in a pair or only 1?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just bought my D10 from a local dealer. After messing around, the default configuration is the best suit for me. Waiting on your research on AD8066. 

 For the Sys. Concept Toslink to Toslink Angled 90deg adaptor, does it come in a pair or only 1?_

 

Only one.


----------



## tracyrick

HiFlight,
 I'm curious, have you gotten a sound yet anywhere close to what the AD797's do in the D1? Specifically bass impact.

 Sounds like with the 8066 that is NOT what you are trying to acheive, but if I buy the D10 I will want to replicate the AD797 bass improvement I get in my D1. I know you said the AD797's won't work in the D10 though.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I have continued testing my cases of opamps, I finally hit on a combination that I like personally like better than any other I have yet tried. I have, up to this point, avoided expression my preferences, but this sounds so good, I will pass it on for "field-testing" :>)

 I am using the AD8066 with the iBasso-supplied AD708 buffers. 
 The AD8066 is noted for its wide soundstage, imaging and accurate low end. 

 It seems as though the AD708 buffers enhance the already superb imaging and soundstage of the 8066, resulting in an amazingly realistic, 3-dimensional soundstage. This sense of realism holds up well even at lower volume settings. Transient response is also outstanding. Highs are detailed and crisp but without sibilance. 

 I tried different genre's... massed vocals, acoustic, orchestral and they all sounded the same: excellent!

 I am surmising that the buffers are isolating the 8066 from the stray capacitance and inductance effects of the headphone load, but whatever the reason, it is a really fine sounding combination. 

 The only possible fly in this ointment is that the 8066 specs list 5v as the lower end of the supply voltage range, and I am not sure what will happen as the battery in the D10 nears exhaustion. Also, the current draw of this combination is higher than some of the other 8616/8656 combos, so battery life may be a bit shorter. I will run this combination until it quits and see how the 8066 handles voltage a bit lower than spec. I hope it fares better than the OPA627._

 

I have an odd observations, surely this couldn't have gone unnoticed by you - with over 300 hours on it, the D10 via USB DAC sounds alarmingly similar to my 2000+ hour Predator via USB DAC. Closer I think than the D2 Viper did with LTC6241HV and LMH6655 opamps. 

 This was with me fatigued and in the middle of the night, and I need to spend more time with them. I only just started working on my comparisons last night about 1AM. I haven't yet compared optical to USB. And I haven't compared them via analog input with the iMod yet. And, I haven't compared it with any other amps, except out of the box vs the D3 via USB where I thought the D10 was as good as the 600+ hour D3 when the D10 had zero hours.

 When I say 600+ or 2000+ hours, that means I stopped counting at those numbers, so they surely have more than that now.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I only just started working on my comparisons last night about 1AM....._

 

As long as you're working hard for the collective good, don't forget to compare the D10 optical to the MicroDAC optical. I would love to hear your opinion.


----------



## jamato8

At this point I still prefer the original opamp configuration. It is the right balance for me.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tracyrick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HiFlight,
 I'm curious, have you gotten a sound yet anywhere close to what the AD797's do in the D1? Specifically bass impact.

 Sounds like with the 8066 that is NOT what you are trying to acheive, but if I buy the D10 I will want to replicate the AD797 bass improvement I get in my D1. I know you said the AD797's won't work in the D10 though._

 

I would say that the closest sound to the D1/AD797 sound would be with the LTC6241HV and AD8656 buffers.


----------



## mrarroyo

Guys it is funny that I still am running the original op-amps. No desire to change, but I will give a try to HiFlight's top op-amp combo.

 Ron, has your top combo changed? Please PM me w/ the information.

 Yeirnie, I will PM you.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys it is funny that I still am running the original op-amps. No desire to change, but I will give a try to HiFlight's top op-amp combo.

 Ron, has your top combo changed? Please PM me w/ the information.

 Yeirnie, I will PM you._

 

Same here. I can't believe everyone passed over my comment last night about the sound signature of D10 via USB vs Predator USB. I haven't been able to listen all day, but last night I couldn't identify the differences between them.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here. I can't believe everyone passed over my comment last night about the sound signature of D10 via USB vs Predator USB. I haven't been able to listen all day, but last night I couldn't identify the differences between them._

 

Actually I read your observations and I was going to ask you if the D10 matches the bass of the Predator through the USB.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here. I can't believe everyone passed over my comment last night about the sound signature of D10 via USB vs Predator USB. I haven't been able to listen all day, but last night I couldn't identify the differences between them._

 

I read it...I think the Predator undoes itself slightly with cosmetics, even if you throw price out of the equation. I just can't get over that budget-looking silkscreened logo and amp name in quotes. (Yes, I'm picky...I know it's stupid) With the D10 $200 cheaper to boot, it's hard to look at the Predator seriously as a competitor.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I do not want to get into subjective "which is best" discussions, I simply ranked them based on treble vs bass balance, or from brightest to darkest. 

 My ranking is as follows: 
 -edited-
 AD8066* *with AD708 buffers 

 * works and sounds great, but not for long. _

 

So I take it the 8066 had an early retirement party, as in, didn't work long?


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I take it the 8066 had an early retirement party, as in, didn't work long?_

 

As I understood it it is because it needs a certain voltage that the amp can't maintain for long as you drain the battery and once the voltage is to low all sorts of nasties could come into the sound


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys it is funny that I still am running the original op-amps. No desire to change......_

 

Same here.


----------



## Dublo7

Has anyone here had the chance to compare this D1 to The Predator or the Pico? 
 I wonder if the D1 is able to drive phones like the DT880, as the Predator and Pico is able to.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dublo7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone here had the chance to compare this D1 to The Predator or the Pico? 
 I wonder if the D1 is able to drive phones like the DT880, as the Predator and Pico is able to._

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/i...ml#post5407629

 The above linked comments were with both connected via USB, with the stock ADA4841-2 opamp in the D10 and using Denon D2000 to listen. With RS-1 and D2000 they both seems to have loads of power. I have only tried a couple of songs through the D10 with my HD600 since I only just got my replacement HD600 headband yesterday afternoon, and the D10 clearly has more power to drive the 300 ohm HD600 than the Predator as well. I am still working on my comparisons for the next several days (too many amps and phone combinations to try to get it all done fast).


----------



## Luca T

I'm looking forward to read your full review of D10!


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I take it the 8066 had an early retirement party, as in, didn't work long?_

 

My fault, rather confusing. Actually, the "didn't work long" referred to the OPA627. I have, perhaps, 18 hours of playtime on the 8066/708 combo and it is still going strong. 

 I edited the ranking post on page 30 to eliminate any misunderstanding. 

 As of now, the 8066/708 is still my personal favorite because of the 3-dimensional soundstage and dynamic range. 

 To shift the overall tonal balance of the 8066 a bit lower, using the AD8656 as buffers would likely give that result. It would then probably resemble the LTC6241/708 but with a bit more detail in the highs. 

 I have not, as yet, compared those 2 combinations. Still, for you Sennheiser users, be sure and give the AD8397/dummy buffers a serious audition.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My fault, rather confusing. Actually, the "didn't work long" referred to the OPA627. I have, perhaps, 18 hours of playtime on the 8066/708 combo and it is still going strong. 

 I edited the ranking post on page 30 to eliminate any misunderstanding. 

 As of now, the 8066/708 is still my personal favorite because of the 3-dimensional soundstage and dynamic range. 

 To shift the overall tonal balance of the 8066 a bit lower, using the AD8656 as buffers would likely give that result. It would then probably resemble the LTC6241/708 but with a bit more detail in the highs. 

 I have not, as yet, compared those 2 combinations. Still, for you Sennheiser users, be sure and give the AD8397/dummy buffers a serious audition._

 

Is the "18 hours playtime and still going strong" with you using DAC and amp, or just amp only? Please be sure to update us on when it finally quits and how long that was. Thanks!


----------



## Dublo7

I want this D10 more and more everyday.

 I might get one and sell my D2.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dublo7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I want this D10 more and more everyday.

 I might get one and sell my D2._

 

How is your D2 with your Cowon D2?

 I mean it has just the HP-out, does the amp improve it worthy?


----------



## Dublo7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How is your D2 with your Cowon D2?

 I mean it has just the HP-out, does the amp improve it worthy?_

 

I don't use my D2 with my DAPs, really. I just use it as a USB/Dac and Amp.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the "18 hours playtime and still going strong" with you using DAC and amp, or just amp only? Please be sure to update us on when it finally quits and how long that was. Thanks!_

 

I have not been using the DAC since I started the timing. Only the amp thru the Aux input.


----------



## wolfen68

I've noted a D10 behavior that I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed...

 When I use the D10 as a DAC only, it will often not output a lineout signal on the first try. I've found that I need to unplug and "replug" the lineout cable heading to the offboard amp, or turn off the D10 and turn it on again. The "mode autoswitching chip" (or whatever it's called) seems to be having difficulty identifying this mode properly. 

 An example I've noted:

 In the car I turn on the iriver and plug in the D10 lineout to the aux line-in on my car stereo. I turn on the D10, hit play on the H140...but no sound. I turn the D10 off, replug the lineout cable and turn the D10 on. Then it works.

 All plugs are fully seated...so it's nothing like that.

 Could someone else see if they can reproduce this behavior with an offboard amp?


----------



## nc8000

Slightly off topic but I just received my iRiver iHP-140 in what appears to be near perfect condition (just don't yet know how long the batteri will last on a charge). I have RockBoxed it, filled it with a selection of 320KB aac files, linked it via SysConcept optical to my trusty D1 with HiFlight chipset and listening through my APureSound V3 recabled ATH-ESW9 this is just fantastic. Apart from size I'm hard pushed to see why I would upgrade to the D10, but perhaps it can get even better (let alone reripping everything in lossless, gasp horror, the work load). Perhaps sell both the D1 and the RudiStor XJ-03 and just have a D10 plus D-NE920 and H-140 since both links optically


----------



## HiFlight

I have occasionally noticed the same thing with both my D1 and D10. The chip searches for a signal by priority, and sometimes seems to by fooled by a gremlin of some sort. I have found that this behavior is much reduced by setting up the input and output interconnects before turning on the source and D10. It also works more reliably with only one input attached, even if the other is not active. 

 Although overall the D10 seems to be more reliable in detecting the setup than was my D1, this is perhaps a situation where a simple mechanical switching might work better. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've noted a D10 behavior that I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed...

 When I use the D10 as a DAC only, it will often not output a lineout signal on the first try. I've found that I need to unplug and "replug" the lineout cable heading to the offboard amp, or turn off the D10 and turn it on again. The "mode autoswitching chip" (or whatever it's called) seems to be having difficulty identifying this mode properly. 

 An example I've noted:

 In the car I turn on the iriver and plug in the D10 lineout to the aux line-in on my car stereo. I turn on the D10, hit play on the H140...but no sound. I turn the D10 off, replug the lineout cable and turn the D10 on. Then it works.

 All plugs are fully seated...so it's nothing like that.

 Could someone else see if they can reproduce this behavior with an offboard amp?_


----------



## wuwhere

This morning I received an email from iBasso the DHL tracking number for my D10. I guess they have started shipping again.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This morning I received an email from iBasso the DHL tracking number for my D10. I guess they have started shipping again.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

how much did you pay for the shipping cost?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how much did you pay for the shipping cost?_

 

USD22 to SoFL, USA.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Slightly off topic but I just received my iRiver iHP-140 in what appears to be near perfect condition (just don't yet know how long the batteri will last on a charge). I have RockBoxed it, filled it with a selection of 320KB aac files, linked it via SysConcept optical to my trusty D1 with HiFlight chipset and listening through my APureSound V3 recabled ATH-ESW9 this is just fantastic. Apart from size I'm hard pushed to see why I would upgrade to the D10, but perhaps it can get even better (let alone reripping everything in lossless, gasp horror, the work load). Perhaps sell both the D1 and the RudiStor XJ-03 and just have a D10 plus D-NE920 and H-140 since both links optically




_

 

You have a really great portable setup! It would be my guess that in blind A-B testing with your source and phones, you would be hard-pressed to reliably identify any differences between the D10 and modified D1 when fed by the iRiver optical input.

 You could, of course, order a D10 and let us all know the results of the comparison!!!!!


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_USD22 to SoFL, USA._

 

Are there some option for the shipping or Is there just that option?

 Because on the Ibasso website there isn't any information about shipping!

 Thanks!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are there some option for the shipping or Is there just that option?

 Because on the Ibasso website there isn't any information about shipping!

 Thanks!_

 

I believe it is computed when you checkout and your shipping address is determined in your order.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have occasionally noticed the same thing with both my D1 and D10......_

 

Thanks HiFlight...I'll try hooking up the lines first before power up and see if that helps. 


 To LucaT: Shipping was also $22 to Wisconsin. Maybe that's the standard US delivery cost.

 wuwhere: As another headfier and myself learned...getting a DHL tracking number doesn't necessarily mean it will actually come via DHL


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've noted a D10 behavior that I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed...

 When I use the D10 as a DAC only, it will often not output a lineout signal on the first try. I've found that I need to unplug and "replug" the lineout cable heading to the offboard amp, or turn off the D10 and turn it on again. The "mode autoswitching chip" (or whatever it's called) seems to be having difficulty identifying this mode properly. 

 An example I've noted:

 In the car I turn on the iriver and plug in the D10 lineout to the aux line-in on my car stereo. I turn on the D10, hit play on the H140...but no sound. I turn the D10 off, replug the lineout cable and turn the D10 on. Then it works.

 All plugs are fully seated...so it's nothing like that.

 Could someone else see if they can reproduce this behavior with an offboard amp?_

 

Mine switches instantly between headphone out and line out. Last night I was feeding the D10 line out into my predator, and comparing the DACs by switching between the Predator USB and the D10 optical, with both driving the Predator. Quickly swapping the headphone from the Predator to the D10, and unplugging the mini-mini from the line out would activate the headphone jack instantly. The same with plugging the line in and then swapping the headphones back - instant switch over.

 Now, switching from D10 USB to D10 optical input does seem to require unplugging the cable and power cycling the D10, so the microchip inside can detect what the source is. But, mine seems to change the output right away.

 The results of my testing will be in my D10 review coming up in a few days.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks HiFlight...I'll try hooking up the lines first before power up and see if that helps. 


 To LucaT: *Shipping was also $22 to Wisconsin. Maybe that's the standard US delivery cost*.

 wuwhere: As another headfier and myself learned...getting a DHL tracking number doesn't necessarily mean it will actually come via DHL
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I live in Italy, I asked them by email but probably 22$ is for international delivery in general!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The results of my testing will be in my D10 review coming up in a few days._

 

We are waiting your review!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still considering if buy D10 or buy a T4 and a full DAC for home in the future!

 And I have even to consider I have just HP-out on the DAP!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I live in Italy, I asked them by email but probably 22$ is for international delivery in general!




 We are waiting your review!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still considering if buy D10 or buy a T4 and a full DAC for home in the future!

 And I have even to consider I have just HP-out on the DAP!_

 

I'm saying, buy the D10 now.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have a really great portable setup! It would be my guess that in blind A-B testing with your source and phones, you would be hard-pressed to reliably identify any differences between the D10 and modified D1 when fed by the iRiver optical input.

 You could, of course, order a D10 and let us all know the results of the comparison!!!!!_

 

I probably will order a D10 for the simpel reason that the D1 is too big to fit inside my AT hard case for the ESW9 which is where my travel rig with the RudiStor XJ-03 fits today. I use the D1 as a USB dac to feed my Boston Acoustics powered computer speakers in my home office. This would then mean that the RudiStor XJ-03 might end up surplus to requirements.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm saying, buy the D10 now._

 

it's out of stock!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's out of stock!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Bummer.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's out of stock!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It was out of stock when I ordered mine last Saturday and today I received an email with the tracking number. Their website may not be up to date.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was out of stock when I ordered mine last Saturday and today I received an email with the tracking number. Their website may not be up to date._

 

Goooood!

 Guys read you is very useful for me but totally bad for my wallet!


----------



## fyu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your response HeadphoneAddict. It's great to know I don't have a dud (cringes to self thinking of month long RMA's).

 So if I understand correctly, you cannot use AC power with the D10 unless it is in charge mode at the same time? That seems strange as the instructions imply that the AC adapter can be used to power the device...but they also make a point (in bold) to keep the charge switch in the "Off" position when the battery does not need to be charged. 

 What would someone do if they wished to use the D10 as a dedicated desktop device....just leave the charge switch on and let it fry the battery over a couple of months?_

 

Sorry to bring up an old topic. But does anybody have any further input on this?
 I'm planning on getting this and using it as a desktop unit 99.9% of the time. But I don't want to risk having a li-po overcharged.


----------



## HiFlight

If you just turn the D10 charge switch and volume switch on and off with your computer when you are using it as a DAC, you should have no problems. 

 Another possibility for desktop use is just forget about the charge switch until you run out of battery power, then let it recharge until the charge light extinguishes. 

 It is highly unlikely that a 5 volt USB source will overcharge a 4.5-5 volt lithium cell.


----------



## iriverdude

Quote:


 It is highly unlikely that a 5 volt USB source will overcharge a 4.5-5 volt lithium cell. 
 

What kind of charging circuit does it have?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What kind of charging circuit does it have?_

 

Will find out and post the info shortly. Lots of people have had questions about the caution note in the instructions. Most single cell recharging circuits are fairly simple and quite reliable.


----------



## dazzer1975

nc800:

 speaking as someone who missed out on getting a d1 as I made the decision to buy a day or two after the last one had been sold, if I already had the d1 then I wouldn't bother with the d10.

 Of course, there will surely be some sonic differences but as both units can be opamp rolled then I think either or unit will suffice for anybody looking for an optically equipped portable dac.

 However, I see you are going to get one anyway owing to its smaller size than the d1 in which case congrats and sorry for your wallet lol


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_However, I see you are going to get one anyway owing to its smaller size than the d1 in which case congrats and sorry for your wallet lol_

 

Yes that would be the main reason for me to get it plus the convenience of then just leaving the D1 permanently in my home office setup and having the D10 in the travel rig as I travel up to about 100 nights a year for work.


----------



## Sonicpath

HeadphoneAddict hurry up please update your D10 comparing review with other amps. really want to see the difference with the opt in option on this amp.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sonicpath* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HeadphoneAddict hurry up please update your D10 comparing review with other amps. really want to see the difference with the opt in option on this amp._

 

I can't rush it and I don't want to give out spoilers. Sorry. Just buy one.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't rush it and I don't want to give out spoilers. Sorry. Just buy one._

 

We can wait!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We can wait!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There was a spoiler in my last reply...


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was out of stock when I ordered mine last Saturday and today I received an email with the tracking number. Their website may not be up to date._

 

I ordered mine before that and have yet to receive any kind of email from them.

 Way to go Ibasso


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There was a spoiler in my last reply..._

 

I know I saw it, I just wanted to make you feel the weight of the responsability!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered mine before that and have yet to receive any kind of email from them.

 Way to go Ibasso_

 

Last In First Out? That's not fair.


----------



## Luca T

I don't have enought money on the card that I use for the on-line payment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I have to wait tomorrow morning to recharge it!


----------



## dazzer1975

Oh I am not so bothered about when people get them, maybe they are working on U.S. orders first, but a little email communique to let me know why other orders are being completed before mine would be appreciated.

 For info, I ordered and paid for mine on the 5th which is only 2 days before you so hopefully I will be hearing soon.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh I am not so bothered about when people get them, maybe they are working on U.S. orders first, but a little email communique to let me know why other orders are being completed before mine would be appreciated.

 For info, I ordered and paid for mine on the 5th which is only 2 days before you so hopefully I will be hearing soon._

 

Hope you hear from them soon.

 I also received my fiber optic cables and adapters from Sys. Concept today. Just waiting for this baby to mate with my HP-120.


----------



## immtbiker

The 5th, the 7th???? 

 Is that January or February?


----------



## dazzer1975

february, wuwhere said he ordered last saturday which would be the 7th.


----------



## immtbiker

I ordered and paid for mine on *January 23rd*!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered and paid for mine on *January 23rd*!_

 

I ordered mine Feb. 7th, got email this morning with DHL tracking number from iBasso.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered and paid for mine on *January 23rd*!_

 

and still no tracking confirmation?

 if so thats really shoddy on behalf of ibasso and really needs sorting out.

 in the meantime im waiting in wuwhere's garden for the postman lol


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and still no tracking confirmation?

 if so thats really shoddy on behalf of ibasso and really needs sorting out.

 in the meantime im waiting in wuwhere's garden for the postman lol_

 

For all I know you your D10 might be knocking on your door before you get an email notification from iBasso. Lets hope so.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and still no tracking confirmation?

 if so thats really shoddy on behalf of ibasso and really needs sorting out.

 in the meantime im waiting in wuwhere's garden for the postman lol_

 

Give them a chance. From my experience even the fabled Triad Audio did not email me the tracking number for my Lisa III. Before I know it, I got a call from the customs to claim my stuff. The only amp maker that's on the dot with email communication is RSA. While the rest seems like hit and misses.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The Chinese new year always messes them up for a couple of weeks, until they get back in the swing of things.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Give them a chance. From my experience even the fabled Triad Audio did not email me the tracking number for my Lisa III. Before I know it, I got a call from the customs to claim my stuff. The only amp maker that's on the dot with email communication is RSA. While the rest seems like hit and misses._

 

[size=x-small]Dr.Jan Meier [/size]of [size=x-small]Meier Audio is very helpful,and really on the ball,and answers questions quickly.His amps are really quality made.[/size]


----------



## Dublo7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[size=x-small]Dr.Jan Meier [/size]of [size=x-small]Meier Audio is very helpful,and really on the ball,and answers questions quickly.His amps are really quality made.[/size]_

 

Yeah, I'm still debating whether I should buy a Corda Cantate as a desktop amp/dac, or save a few hundred and just buy a D10 and use it as a desktop/PC amp/dac.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will find out and post the info shortly. Lots of people have had questions about the caution note in the instructions. Most single cell recharging circuits are fairly simple and quite reliable._

 

The D10 does have overcharge protection. iBasso said that they probably worded the warning in the instructions rather poorly, and the caution note to turn off the switch after charging is complete was intended to prevent needless charging cycles whenever the computer is turned on rather than to prevent damage by overcharging. 

 Although the D10 battery will not be damaged by overcharging, all lithium cells have a finite number of charge cycles, and turning off the charge switch just prevents wasting them by needless recharging.


----------



## khtse

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was out of stock when I ordered mine last Saturday and today I received an email with the tracking number. Their website may not be up to date._

 

You serious? I placed my order on Jan 26, when it was out of stock, and I still haven't received any shipment notice! I thought by placing the order earlier I can get in front of the queue when D10 is back in stock...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's time to email them...


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *khtse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You serious? I placed my order on Jan 26, when it was out of stock, and I still haven't received any shipment notice! I thought by placing the order earlier I can get in front of the queue when D10 is back in stock...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's time to email them..._

 

Dead serious. This is the email I got from them yesterday:

_Dear, Sir/Madam,
 Thank you for your order.
 Your DHL tracking number is: xxxxxxxxxx
 If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us.
 Sincerely
 iBasso Audio_

 I 'x' the DHL number on purpose.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dead serious. This is the email I got from them yesterday:
Your DHL tracking number is: xxxxxxxxxx

 I 'x' the DHL number on purpose._

 

You could have thrown in a couple of "O"s too. Where's the love? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If you put in _hugs_, then you gotta put in the _kisses_ too.

 xxxoooxxxooo


----------



## fyu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D10 does have overcharge protection. iBasso said that they probably worded the warning in the instructions rather poorly, and the caution note to turn off the switch after charging is complete was intended to prevent needless charging cycles whenever the computer is turned on rather than to prevent damage by overcharging. 

 Although the D10 battery will not be damaged by overcharging, all lithium cells have a finite number of charge cycles, and turning off the charge switch just prevents wasting them by needless recharging._

 

ok. thanks. Though I guess it will be interesting to see how to use this as a pure desktop amp everyday.


----------



## immtbiker

I received a reply from iBasso this morning:

_"Dear Sir/Madam,
 Thank you for your reply.
 We have not shipped D10 to anybody after it is out of stock. We only have one working unit on hand, it is impossible for us to ship it to anyone.
 We guarantee that your order will be shipped once the D10 is ready, and first come first served". 

 Have a good weekend.

 Sincerely
 iBasso Audio_


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received a reply from iBasso this morning:

"Dear Sir/Madam,
 Thank you for your reply.
 We have not shipped D10 to anybody after it is out of stock. We only have one working unit on hand, it is impossible for us to ship it to anyone.
 We guarantee that your order will be shipped once the D10 is ready, and first come first served". 

 Have a good weekend.

 Sincerely
 iBasso Audio




_

 

As much as I love my D10...and all the (mostly) positive feedback regarding ibasso's quality and shipping....I've decided there is definitely some weirdness with how they do certain things.

 1. They release a significant new product days before their New Year, resulting in an effective blackout for those wishing to purchase one.

 2. Their stock at the time of release seems to have been pretty low, as they were "out of stock" within two days after it's release. Apparently this condition continues to the present. 

 3. They send me a DHL tracking number which is nonfunctional for two weeks. Later (and belatedly as compared to others) I receive my D10 via EMS/U.S. Post.

 4. ...and the email above as compared to others getting tracking numbers (or not) and placing orders.






 I have to admit that I've been spoiled by vendors such as Ray Samuels or TTVJ (and many others not mentioned). I guess I have no problem with this if the product arrives eventually and performs as advertised (which my unit is so far).

 HiFlight: On a separate note, I tried your recommendation regarding the "gremlins" in the D10's input switching mechanism....and it exhibits the same issue. I've learned now that each time the D10 fails to switch to the proper input/output, I can replug the plug while everything is on and it will typically find it on the second try.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received a reply from iBasso this morning:

"Dear Sir/Madam,
 Thank you for your reply.
 We have not shipped D10 to anybody after it is out of stock. We only have one working unit on hand, it is impossible for us to ship it to anyone.
 We guarantee that your order will be shipped once the D10 is ready, and first come first served". 

 Have a good weekend.

 Sincerely
 iBasso Audio




_

 






 Perhaps they messed up my order?


----------



## jamato8

If my D10 doesn't take the input and play I just turn it off and then back on and the D10 works just fine.


----------



## HiFlight

I think iBasso underestimated the early demand for the D10. I do know they were in a hurry to introduce it as close to the beginning of 2009 as possible. They have a couple of other things in the works, but I am sure that they will first ramp up the D10 production prior to pursuing the items on the drawing board.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think iBasso underestimated the early demand for the D10. I do know they were in a hurry to introduce it as close to the beginning of 2009 as possible. *They have a couple of other things in the works*, but I am sure that they will first ramp up the D10 production prior to pursuing the items on the drawing board._

 

Are they upgrading even the other models like D2 and D3?


----------



## Dublo7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are they upgrading even the other models like D2 and D3?_

 

I think they're developing a desktop amp.


----------



## jamato8

D10 with the optical output of my D303. A very nice combination. Oh and the ESW10 JPN.


----------



## Sonicpath

very nice!!! you have too many toys


----------



## jamato8

D303 with the optical out to the D10.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 D10 with the optical output of my D303. A very nice combination. Oh and the ESW10 JPN._

 

I'm losing track of how many optical out PCDP I have:

 D-303
 D-EJ2000 (for carrying around)
 D-NE20 (in my bedside rig)
 D-E999 (still in the box, haven't tried it)
 D-E825 (I think that is the model, still in the box, was a refurb)

 Thinking I'll sell the D-303 since it want to be on it's side to play with any skipping in the first couple of tracks...


----------



## jamato8

You need to adjust one of the pots in the D303 so it won't skip. I used to know which one and have fixed a few of them but I don't remember which pot it was now. 

 I have about 6 Sony portables with optical out but have only used the D303 recently. The amp section of the D303 is in my opinion, the best of any of the Sony portable CD players.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dublo7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think they're developing a desktop amp._

 

Supposedly they are also working on building a SD based mp3 player into the enclosure of something like the D2 or D3 so an amp with buildin mp3 player. The last rumour I heard was that it would operate like an iPod Shuffle so with no display.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, anamp with built-in mp3 would be nice! Looking forward to your review larry! And reviews by others of course, especially with different opamp/buffer combos...
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## iriverdude

I may got for this. Will it be a good match for iriver H140, Grado RS-1 & UE Triple Fi 10?


----------



## immtbiker

I received this email from iBasso in the wee hours of EST.
 They admit a slight mistake and that's all that I can ever ask:

 ------------------------------------------------
_Dear Sir,
 Thank you for your email.
 I think I sent out the tracking numbers by mistake. Actually, all the D10 preorder are not shipped yet. Sorry about that. 
 Have a good weekend.

 Sincerely
 iBasso Audio_
 -----------------------------------------------

 So to the two members that received DHL tracking numbers, disregard them.


----------



## wuwhere

oh well...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received this email from iBasso in the wee hours of EST.
 They admit a slight mistake and that's all that I can ever ask:

 ------------------------------------------------
Dear Sir,
 Thank you for your email.
 I think I sent out the tracking numbers by mistake. Actually, all the D10 preorder are not shipped yet. Sorry about that. 
 Have a good weekend.

 Sincerely
 iBasso Audio
 -----------------------------------------------

 So to the two members that received DHL tracking numbers, disregard them._


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may got for this. Will it be a good match for iriver H140, Grado RS-1 & UE Triple Fi 10?_

 

A D10 should pair fantastically with the H140 running optical and should have no problem with the TFP and I suspect it will also handle the RS-1 nicely but that is a guess.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Supposedly they are also working on building a SD based mp3 player into the enclosure of something like the D2 or D3 so an amp with buildin mp3 player. The last rumour I heard was that it would operate like an iPod Shuffle so with no display._

 

I hope it would support an externally pluggable (like the Cowon D2) SDHC/SDXC with an optical out.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope it would support an externally pluggable (like the Cowon D2) SDHC/SDXC with an optical out._

 

Email iBasso with your ideas.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Email iBasso with your ideas._

 

I'll do that, thanks.


----------



## iriverdude

Any reps from ibasso here? Could bundle it with short 3.5mm to 3.5mm and optical to mini toslink.


----------



## Anouk

I have heard that the sansa Fuze is a fantastic mp3-player. I wonder if someone with an iriver +d10 has a fuze to compare with?
 Thanks,
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any reps from ibasso here? Could bundle it with short 3.5mm to 3.5mm and optical to mini toslink._

 

You mean 3.5*cm*, right?


----------



## nc8000

I don't think so 3.5 mm to metric users is 1/8" so I think he wants a short mini-mini cable and a short toslink as opposed to the long cables that came with the D1 (don't know if they are bundling any cables with the D10 at all)


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You mean 3.5*cm*, C2C, right?_

 

I think he want a 3.5 mini-jack cable not a cable of 3,5cm!


----------



## wuwhere

Oops! My bad.


----------



## verjuno

it looks sound very good


----------



## Nimrad

Are there any cables bundled with this one?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nimrad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are there any cables bundled with this one?_

 

You get an inexpensive mini to mini for the amp section, a fairly long toslink to toslink and the AC to DC charger with a USB cord so you can use the wall charger or the USB from your laptop.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You get an inexpensive mini to mini for the amp section, a fairly long toslink to toslink and the AC to DC charger with a USB cord so you can use the wall charger or the USB from your laptop._

 

Is there any sonic benefit in changing the mini to mini cables that come with these amps? I've never considered the length or gauge big enough to make much of a difference.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any sonic benefit in changing the mini to mini cables that come with these amps? I've never considered the length or gauge big enough to make much of a difference._

 

That is about as subjective a subject as you can get. Only your ears can tell if it is worth it for you.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, I think high quality IC's make a difference. The signal is carried on that wire so treating the signal with the least interference is best, IMO, and that requires a good IC. Having said that, I think you can still enjoy the cable that comes with the amp. I make my own and can hear a difference. 

 What are some good ones on the market I am sure someone will chime in.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is about as subjective a subject as you can get. Only your ears can tell if it is worth it for you._

 

Yes it is very subjective. I used to make IC's of hyper pure silver and sold them commercially and to be honest, I never had anything but positive feedback from customers and this can't be said for most IC's. So while not everyone heard the same thing, they all felt there was an improvement.


----------



## ed lynch

Recently i tried an iriver h320 20 gig and according to the syllibas with it its suppose to have a dedicated line out, try as i may even with the secondry line out different dedicated line out? it sounded the same as ordinary line out for headphones, then i noticed the volume control hired the volume on that line out, normally that jack output would have a seperate output with no volume control ( ipods) any ideas, ed.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is about as subjective a subject as you can get. Only your ears can tell if it is worth it for you._

 

I hear you on that one. I've always wondered if there was enough cable involved to make a difference on the mini-to-mini cables though. I've been in high-end audio a long time at one point or another and, to be honest, once the cable breaks in, I think the mega-buck cable thing is overblown and a waste of money. But there is value in a good solid no-frills cable for sure. Who makes the mini-to-mini?


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hear you on that one. I've always wondered if there was enough cable involved to make a difference on the mini-to-mini cables though. I've been in high-end audio a long time at one point or another and, to be honest, once the cable breaks in, I think the mega-buck cable thing is overblown and a waste of money. But there is value in a good solid no-frills cable for sure. Who makes the mini-to-mini?_

 

So what headphones you are using?


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vkvedam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what headphones you are using?_

 

D7000.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...a fairly long toslink..._

 

Is that a full size optical or mini toslink (like the one on the back of my Mac and front of my MicroDac)?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that a full size optical or mini toslink (like the one on the back of my Mac and front of my MicroDac)?_

 

I am not familiar with a mini toslink. It is a standard size toslink.


----------



## iriverdude

Mini toslink is what iriver H140 has.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mini toslink is what iriver H140 has._

 


 ...and the Mac, and the HR MicroDac


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ed lynch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Recently i tried an iriver h320 20 gig and according to the syllibas with it its suppose to have a dedicated line out, try as i may even with the secondry line out different dedicated line out? it sounded the same as ordinary line out for headphones, then i noticed the volume control hired the volume on that line out, normally that jack output would have a seperate output with no volume control ( ipods) any ideas, ed._

 

iRiver uses a digital volume control, which affects both headphone out as well as line out.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iRiver uses a digital volume control, which affects both headphone out as well as line out._

 

Which means it is not a fix voltage output line out? It comes out from the preamp stage output?


----------



## iriverdude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which means it is not a fix voltage output line out? It comes out from the preamp stage output?_

 

Not sure but Squeezebox is similar, the RCA Line out is variable. Actually so is my Marantz CD player and all my Mediatek DVD players.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which means it is not a fix voltage output line out? It comes out from the preamp stage output?_

 

It is a line-out, but not line-level output. There is a difference. Line-level is standardized fixed voltage.


----------



## khtse

Good news. Just got an email from iBasso saying that my D10 will be shipped on either Monday or Tuesday! (I placed my order on Jan 26th)


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *khtse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good news. Just got an email from iBasso saying that my D10 will be shipped on either Monday or Tuesday! (I placed my order on Jan 26th)_

 

That's good. It is Monday there now.


----------



## mrarroyo

Who has an AD8066 already mounted and willing to sell me one to use on the D10? Thanks.


----------



## Jaw007

Has anyone tried any [size=x-small]AD8610 yet?.If so what are your thoughts on them?
[/size]


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who has an AD8066 already mounted and willing to sell me one to use on the D10? Thanks._

 

Hi Flight should have an AD8066...I just ordered one myself.

 Jon


----------



## Packgrog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ed lynch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Recently i tried an iriver h320 20 gig and according to the syllibas with it its suppose to have a dedicated line out, try as i may even with the secondry line out different dedicated line out? it sounded the same as ordinary line out for headphones, then i noticed the volume control hired the volume on that line out, normally that jack output would have a seperate output with no volume control ( ipods) any ideas, ed._

 

Just to be clear: the H320 is the wrong player to use with an iBasso D10. You would need an H120 or H140 (also known as iHP-120 and iHP-140, respectively). While the H1x0 and H3x0 players have analog line-out, only the H1x0 players have optical digital output. Using the line-out (which IS controlled by the player's volume control), you're limited to the player's own DAC, which isn't that great. The iBasso D10 has an optical receiver and it's own DAC which will FAR surpass the one in the player. Note that the digital output is NOT controlled by the player's volume control, though if you use RockBox, the final output volume is limited when using ReplayGain and this does effect the output via digital out.

 -Packgrog


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried any [size=x-small]AD8610 yet?.If so what are your thoughts on them?
[/size]_

 

It doesn't work in the D10. Supply voltage is too low.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It doesn't work in the D10. Supply voltage is too low._

 

Thanks for the information.


----------



## GTL

So anyone with the D10 up for a complete review of it already? I am very interested in getting one to replace my D2.


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GTL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So anyone with the D10 up for a complete review of it already? I am very interested in getting one to replace my D2._

 

Just wait for few more hours, Larry's review is on its way...


----------



## paulw86

who's larry?
 btw, this D10 is out of stock


----------



## wuwhere

Just received an email from iBasso that my D10 shipped. This time the DHL tracking number is not bogus. It showed in the DHL tracking website.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paulw86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_who's larry?
 btw, this D10 is out of stock_

 

If you want one just put your order even though it says out of stock. I placed my order on Feb. 7th when it said out of stock.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just received an email from iBasso that my D10 shipped. This time the DHL tracking number is not bogus. It showed in the DHL tracking website. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Me 2. 
 Left Hong Kong DHL facility last night (their time).


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paulw86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_who's larry?_

 

HeadphoneAddict


----------



## Anouk

I wonder if the d10 is a dual mono design like the practical devices xm5? I think it has the seem opamp+buffer structure, i might be wrong of course... I do not understand why you can put opamps in the buffer slots.... I mean i suppose you cant put buffers in the opamp slots...
 Is there some place I can read more about opamprolling/the technology used in the d10? I have read this whole thread already.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## khtse

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me 2. 
 Left Hong Kong DHL facility last night (their time)._

 

Same here!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

RE: D10 review.

 I have a busy day today (my son's cub scout crossover to boy scouts) and tomorrow (his taekwondo), but I will be rolling opamps in the D10 and should have that done either tomorrow or Thursday. 80-90% of my D10 review is written up and waiting for me to finish this last part. Plus, I want to try my Westone ES3X with it.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_RE: D10 review.

 I have a busy day today (my son's cub scout crossover to boy scouts) and tomorrow (his taekwondo), but I will be rolling opamps in the D10 and should have that done either tomorrow or Thursday. 80-90% of my D10 review is written up and waiting for me to finish this last part. Plus, I want to try my Westone ES3X with it._

 

You don't have to justify with us, it's not a duty do the review!

 The review is a big favour that you are doing to us all, so it's us that must be grateful to you for all your time and effort!


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You don't have to justify with us, it's not a duty do the review!

 The review is a big favour that you are doing to us all, so it's us that must be grateful to you for all your time and effort!_

 

*X1000*

 Take your own time Larry....


----------



## wuwhere

And if it's a positive review, more head-fiers will buy D10.


----------



## TopQuark

Can anyone confirm if the optical S/PDIF output of iRiver H120/H140 will bypass the DAC of the player?

 Also, it was not advertised on the D10 that it has 4ch architecture unlike the D3. What are the tradeoffs? What are the design tricks that makes D10 better than a 4ch design? iBasso is saying the D10 is better than any current lineup they have using the optical ouput.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You don't have to justify with us, it's not a duty do the review!

 The review is a big favour that you are doing to us all, so it's us that must be grateful to you for all your time and effort!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vkvedam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*X1000*

 Take your own time Larry...._

 

Yeah. Now hurry up and "lay it on us"!


----------



## jamato8

Ah Larry, the pressure builds. . . the pressure. . . . hear that knocking at the door? . . . . . no, don't answer. . . see those eyes at the window? .. . . the pressure. . . they aren't really there Larry . . . no don't answer the door. . .


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TopQuark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone confirm if the optical S/PDIF output of iRiver H120/H140 will bypass the DAC of the player?_

 

It does, that is like the whole point of it.


----------



## jamato8

Yep, the H140/H120 are the only portables I know of. I am soooo glad they were produced and it is why I have 3 140's and 4 or 5 120's. It doesn't look like another will be built. 

 To have a portable hard drive that you can use lossless or WAV with and then to have a portable optical in DAC! This is all too good.


----------



## iriverdude

I just thought that the price and size of palmtop computers is coming down, perhaps this could be replacement for H120/H140? If they have digital out. You could use something like Media Portal. Since you're going with D10 or other stuff may as well go hog. 

 Or could then use USB DAC's.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just thought that the price and size of palmtop computers is coming down, perhaps this could be replacement for H120/H140? If they have digital out. You could use something like Media Portal. Since you're going with D10 or other stuff may as well go hog. 

 Or could then use USB DAC's._

 

I like optical over USB at this point.


----------



## nc8000

And at the same time using it with pcdp's with optical out


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like optical over USB at this point._

 

Same here.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like optical over USB at this point._

 

Same here x3


----------



## qusp

firewire is even better, but no portables with firewire at this point. firewire beats optical IMO, but I agree that optical beats USB no problem


----------



## dazzer1975

WOOHOOO shipping notice here too and its left hong kong hub on way to dear ol' Blighty

 'AVE IT lol


----------



## immtbiker

Holy cow! I just checked my tracking #, and even though it left the Hong Kong hub yesterday, China time zone, it is on the truck, out for delivery from my local hub today.

 I am glad the I took off this week to stay home with the kids. I have my eyes and ears plastered to the door.

 Now I have to get the appropriate toslink connectors (only have mini to mini or toslink to mini).

 I guess I can use the optical output from my iMac to the D10 in the meantime (mini on the iMac side and toslink on the D-10 side), or I can use usb to usb and compare to my MicroDac/Portaphile combo.

 Very exited.


----------



## iriverdude

heh would be funny 10 seconds after you place the order the door bell rings with the postie holding a box from ibasso. Major head **** up.


----------



## trickywombat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...
 I am glad the I took off this week to stay home with the kids. I have my eyes and ears plastered to the door..._

 

Who's watching the kids?


----------



## wuwhere

My status says the same, after all, we paid $22 for shipping.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy cow! I just checked my tracking #, and even though it left the Hong Kong hub yesterday, China time zone, it is on the truck, out for delivery from my local hub today.

 I am glad the I took off this week to stay home with the kids. I have my eyes and ears plastered to the door.

 Now I have to get the appropriate toslink connectors (only have mini to mini or toslink to mini).

 I guess I can use the optical output from my iMac to the D10 in the meantime (mini on the iMac side and toslink on the D-10 side), or I can use usb to usb and compare to my MicroDac/Portaphile combo.

 Very exited._


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Now I have to get the appropriate toslink connectors (only have mini to mini or toslink to mini)._

 

Being daft here probably but if you ahve toslink to mini then your good to go if using the iriver player which I think you are?

  Quote:


 I guess I can use the optical output from my iMac to the D10 in the meantime (mini on the iMac side and toslink on the D-10 side), or I can use usb to usb and compare to my MicroDac/Portaphile combo.

 Very exited. 
 

me too, although theres no update to show since it had departed Hong Kong.

 Fingers crossed for tomorrow.


----------



## woof37

What differences do you hear in optical as opposed to USB? I'd planned to just use mine with a USB connection but not if I'm giving up sonics somewhere.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_heh would be funny 10 seconds after you place the order the door bell rings with the postie holding a box from ibasso. Major head **** up._

 

I've had worse thing happen to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *trickywombat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who's watching the kids? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Handcuffs, steam pipe, and a Sharper Image timed water and feeding station.

 If they say that they "have to go to the bathroom", I reply with the usual response, "You should have gone before I put on the handcuffs!"


----------



## immtbiker

Wow! No more than 2 minutes after I finished my previous post, there was a knock (pounding, actually) on the door, and lo and behold, my Cobra arrived 12:53 EST.

 Do let me put this in perspective. It takes 3 days to mail a letter from New York to New Jersey, but one day to send a package from Hong Kong to NYC.

 Amazing. Truly amazing.

 Let the fun begin.

 **John (and others who have found a good mate), could you tell me which is the best configuration that you have found for portability?











_And_, what was the total cost for the mini and 2 toslink adapters?

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## wuwhere

Congrats on your new toy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow! No more than 2 minutes after I finished my previous post, there was a knock (pounding, actually) on the door, and lo and behold, my Cobra arrived 12:53 EST.

 Do let me put this in perspective. It takes 3 days to mail a letter from New York to New Jersey, but one day to send a package from Hong Kong to NYC.

 Amazing. Truly amazing.

 Let the fun begin._


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_firewire is even better, but no portables with firewire at this point. firewire beats optical IMO, but I agree that optical beats USB no problem_

 

Interestingly, I have three DAC/amps connected at the same time to my Macbook Pro at this very moment, and I was listening to them by switching back and forth last night and today; and they all seem to be of equivalent sound quality albeit some small difference in sound signature - those being the D10 via Optical, Pico via USB and Duet via Firewire. 

 With my Westone ES3X the D10 and Pico are dead silent with no hiss, and the Apogee has a very slight background hiss with the volume all the way down (but not enough to interfere with listening to quiet music). Of the three, using the headphone out I prefer the D10 via optical and Duet via firewire by a small margin, both at 24/96 bit rates which allows me to hear more details with my native 24/96 music files.

 No more till my review is done. I'm working on the opamp rolling portion now.


----------



## nc8000

Just placed my order, now to see how long it will take, the site still states it as out of stock


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what was the total cost for the mini and 2 toslink adapters?

 Thanks in advance._

 

In CAD from Sys Concepts,

 Adapters - CAD 4.88 each - CAD 9.76
 Cable w/ shells - CAD 33.25
 Shipping - CAD 9.50

 Total: CAD 52.51


----------



## immtbiker

Just got off the phone with Joseph at sys-concept (you guys were right, he is a pleasure to deal with) and I ordered one complete mini-toslink cable, and one toslink to toslink cable with a toslink to mini right angle adapter, and a toslink to toslink right angle adapter.
 I had to give him measurements which Joseph said came right in line with others from here and Asia.

 My head hurts.

 Have been charging the D10 since arrival and I will be able to use it tonight with a long toslink to mini cable that I have from Headroom that I got with my HR Desktop amp.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In CAD from Sys Concepts,

 Adapters - CAD 4.88 each - CAD 9.76
 Cable w/ shells - CAD 33.25
 Shipping - CAD 9.50

 Total: CAD 52.51_

 

Thanks,
 I ordered the cable w/o shells to make it smaller (Joseph said there were no concerns about possible damage), along with an additional straight Toslink-Mini cable,
 and it came out to $46 US. No snake oil here. Just pure components.
 That's without shipping.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interestingly, I have three DAC/amps connected at the same time to my Macbook Pro at this very moment, and I was listening to them by switching back and forth last night and today; and they all seem to be of equivalent sound quality albeit some small difference in sound signature - those being the D10 via Optical, Pico via USB and Duet via Firewire. 

 With my Westone ES3X the D10 and Pico are dead silent with no hiss, and the Apogee has a very slight background hiss with the volume all the way down (but not enough to interfere with listening to quiet music). Of the three, using the headphone out I prefer the D10 via optical and Duet via firewire by a small margin, both at 24/96 bit rates which allows me to hear more details with my native 24/96 music files.

 No more till my review is done. I'm working on the opamp rolling portion now._

 

Are there any easy optical adapters for a Windows PC? I'd planned on using USB this whole time but apparently should not. I need to be able to take my setup down the hall into a test lab and easily get things working.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here x3_

 

Same here x4


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are there any easy optical adapters for a Windows PC? I'd planned on using USB this whole time but apparently should not. I need to be able to take my setup down the hall into a test lab and easily get things working._

 

of course you should use usb if thats what you plan.

 the sound will not be a million miles away from an optical connection, and remember as with most things, the differences are more subtle than they appear in the written form on head-fi in most instances.


----------



## TopQuark

jamato8;5362156 said:
			
		

> Can you still fit the remote connector with the right angle adapters?
> 
> Also, how come the right angle connectors are angled up unlike other photos I have seen? Is it because there is a play in the socket itself?


----------



## nc8000

That is because the connectors can swivel a full 360 degrees. Well at least the one in the D10 can, the one in the H140 is a round plug


----------



## immtbiker

I let in charge for ~3 hours and I had to give it a Andy Warhol moment.

 I am using a mini-toslink 2M cable with a Rockboxed H120. I haven't really listened to the flac files on this unit, on the go, because I got tired of carrying around a 3 story music rack. This setup has been delegated to "sit front of the house on a nice summer's eve with the tunes". Basically ended it's reign in early October.

 Which is good, because the music on the H120 is not doubled up on any of my other DAPs.

 Lately, I have been using to death, my iMod, ALO Jena Cryo 6 wire LOD, and a Portaphile, or a Tomahawk, or Mustang with UE10's.

 I remember last year, when I was listening a lot on the iMod, I transfered over a lossless file to my iRiver to make a comparison. Was the outboard DAC really going to make a difference?, I asked myself.

 Well I put on the beginning of Sam Brown's "Reboot" and I was floored! All that time wasted. Even though the iMod is far better than the iPod, it can't beat converting outside of the box using a DAC.

 So today, cold out of the box, I put on one of my favorite albums of all time, and one of the best recordings out there. 

 Oliver Nelson's "The Blues and the Abstract Truth".
 If you haven't heard this album, stop what your doing, and go get this piece of work.
 An audiophile's dream. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have to say, that I am impressed by both the amp and Dac section of the Cobra. Especially for a percentage of the price of the Pico and Predator.

 I never got one of those offerings because neither one offered optical and digital RCA options.


----------



## nc8000

This is going to be fatal and expensive !!!
 I just discovered that a RockBoxed H140 will play 24bit 192kHz flac files purchased at Linn Records download site.
 This is SACD quality on a portable rig !!!
 Tried the 8 and 16 second trial songs and they worked fine so I have purchased the new Claire Martin album and is downloading as I write.


----------



## wuwhere

Mine arrived too. Can't wait to get home from work.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is going to be fatal and expensive !!!
 I just discovered that a RockBoxed H140 will play 24bit 192kHz flac files purchased at Linn Records download site.
 This is SACD quality on a portable rig !!!
 Tried the 8 and 16 second trial songs and they worked fine so I have purchased the new Claire Martin album and is downloading as I write._

 

You are evil...


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are evil..._

 

Moi ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Download almost finished (only 4MB line), then to copy to unit and then into bed to listen


----------



## iriverdude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Moi ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Download almost finished (only 4MB line), then to copy to unit and then into bed to listen_

 

I would also recommend you buy Vengaboys albums, they're brilliant. Trust me on this.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is going to be fatal and expensive !!!
 I just discovered that a RockBoxed H140 will play 24bit 192kHz flac files purchased at Linn Records download site.
 This is SACD quality on a portable rig !!!
 Tried the 8 and 16 second trial songs and they worked fine so I have purchased the new Claire Martin album and is downloading as I write._

 

Cool, I haven't tried anything greater than 24/96 on it. I wonder if like the Headroom Micro DAC and Apogee the optical is limited to 24/96 but coax can do 24/192?


----------



## TopQuark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bpfiguer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can charge the iRiver H1X0 player using the miniSync cable (miniSync - H140 Retractable Cable / iRiver H140 Retractable Cable / H140 USB Cable / iRiver H140 USB Cable)_

 

Cool cable. So I can actually charge the H120/H140 and the D10 simultaneously with this cable?

 Welcome me to the club. I just ordered the D10 today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TopQuark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool cable. So I can actually charge the H120/H140 and the D10 simultaneously with this cable?

 Welcome me to the club. I just ordered the D10 today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

I ordered this cable today but I don't think one usb port can produce power enough to charge two devices but I dont know


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool, I haven't tried anything greater than 24/96 on it. I wonder if like the Headroom Micro DAC and Apogee the optical is limited to 24/96 but coax can do 24/192?_

 

I don't know what is happening on a technical level but this album sure sounds good. Only problem is that at this quality one album is 1 GB.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would also recommend you buy Vengaboys albums, they're brilliant. Trust me on this._

 

Never heard about them but will look them up


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is going to be fatal and expensive !!!
 I just discovered that a RockBoxed H140 will play 24bit 192kHz flac files purchased at Linn Records download site.
 This is SACD quality on a portable rig !!!
 Tried the 8 and 16 second trial songs and they worked fine so I have purchased the new Claire Martin album and is downloading as I write._

 

Ehm don't kill me..... what does "24bit 192khz" mean?

 I'm used to the bitrate where a good mp3 is at 320Kbps and a Flac extracted from CD is around 900-1000Kbps!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is going to be fatal and expensive !!!
 I just discovered that a RockBoxed H140 will play 24bit 192kHz flac files purchased at Linn Records download site.
 This is SACD quality on a portable rig !!!
 Tried the 8 and 16 second trial songs and they worked fine so I have purchased the new Claire Martin album and is downloading as I write._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ehm don't kill me..... what does "24bit 192khz" mean?

 I'm used to the bitrate where a good mp3 is at 320Kbps and a Flac extracted from CD is around 900-1000Kbps!_

 

a 16 bit /44 Khz sampling rate for a standard CD audio disc results in a WAV file of 1411 kbps, where FLAC and ALAC are lossless formats that compress them like a zip file so it is more like 800-1100 kbps.

 a 24 bit 192 Khz sampling rate is a higher resolution format used my SACD (super audio CD) or studio masters, and those files in an ALAC (apple lossless) are closer to 2700kbps.

 It's like the difference between 72 dpi for screen resolution and 300 dpi for printer output. Tinier details that you can't see on the screen can be displayed on paper. So, SACD or 24/192 can hold more fine details of the music with more resolution, getting closer to analog audio which is the "true lossless".


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_a 16 bit /44 Khz sampling rate for a standard CD audio disc results in a WAV file of 1411 kbps, where FLAC and ALAC are lossless formats that compress them like a zip file so it is more like 800-1100 kbps.

 a 24 bit 192 Khz sampling rate is a higher resolution format used my SACD (super audio CD) or studio masters, and those files in an ALAC (apple lossless) are closer to 2700kbps.

 It's like the difference between 72 dpi for screen resolution and 300 dpi for printer output. Tinier details that you can't see on the screen can be displayed on paper. So, SACD or 24/192 can hold more fine details of the music with more resolution, getting closer to analog audio which is the "true lossless"._

 






 Which is the size of the file?

 which DAP is possible read those files on?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is going to be fatal and expensive !!!
 I just discovered that a RockBoxed H140 will play 24bit 192kHz flac files purchased at Linn Records download site.
 This is SACD quality on a portable rig !!!
 Tried the 8 and 16 second trial songs and they worked fine so I have purchased the new Claire Martin album and is downloading as I write._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Which is the size of the file?

 which DAP is possible read those files on?_

 

Well, the iPod, iMod and such wont do even the 24/96 ALAC files, I have to convert them to a 1411 kbps AIFF to get them to play on the iMod (can't seem to convert 24/96 ALAC to 16/44 ALAC, so I have to choose AIFF to get the bit rate down). The Rockboxed iRiver H140 will play my 24/96 ALAC and FLAC files, last I checked. I don't want to rockbox my iMod, so I wont be able to play higher resolution than lossless 16/44 CD music. I think it's more of the bit rate that matters than the actual file size, which songs can be 50 - 130 mb each in 24/96 lossless and a CD will take up 1gb or more.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the iPod, iMod and such wont do even the 24/96 ALAC files, I have to convert them to a 1411 kbps AIFF to get them to play on the iMod (can't seem to convert 24/96 ALAC to 16/44 ALAC, so I have to choose AIFF to get the bit rate down). The Rockboxed iRiver H140 will play my 24/96 ALAC and FLAC files, last I checked. I don't want to rockbox my iMod, so I wont be able to play higher resolution than lossless 16/44 CD music. I think it's more of the bit rate that matters than the actual file size, which songs can be 50 - 130 mb each in 24/96 lossless and a CD will take up 1gb or more._

 

Understood, thanks!

 At present I cannot use those file because the S9 can read just FLAC 44,1Khz and S9 is just 16Gb! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To read those files from computer I need a DAC at 24bit-194Khz, don't I?

 Does D10 do it?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is going to be fatal and expensive !!!
 I just discovered that a RockBoxed H140 will play 24bit 192kHz flac files purchased at Linn Records download site.
 This is SACD quality on a portable rig !!!
 Tried the 8 and 16 second trial songs and they worked fine so I have purchased the new Claire Martin album and is downloading as I write._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Understood, thanks!

 At present I cannot use those file because the S9 can read just FLAC 44,1Khz and S9 is just 16Gb! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To read those files from computer I need a DAC at 24bit-194Khz, don't I?

 Does D10 do it?_

 

See post #695 from today.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See post #695 from today._

 

Yes, I read that you haven't tried yet
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but maybe someone else could have already tried!


----------



## nc8000

The other interesting question is what signal is RockBox and the H140 actually outputting from this 24/192 file. Is it being downsampled before being send out or send out as 24/192.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The other interesting question is what signal is RockBox and the H140 actually outputting from this 24/192 file. Is it being downsampled before being send out or send out as 24/192._

 

From the optical-out shouldn't it put out the same?

 Edit: Be patient if I say too many stupid thing I'm still learning


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is going to be fatal and expensive !!!
 I just discovered that a RockBoxed H140 will play 24bit 192kHz flac files purchased at Linn Records download site.
 This is SACD quality on a portable rig !!!
 Tried the 8 and 16 second trial songs and they worked fine so I have purchased the new Claire Martin album and is downloading as I write._

 

woooo, that is great! Now off to Linn. . .


----------



## immtbiker

Joseph from _*sys concepts*_ just wrote me and told me that my cables are ready and they will be shipped tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 He even wrote me a couple of times to make sure that he understood my stack orientation, so he could make the cable as short, while staying flexible, as possible.

 My purchase was a small dollar sale, and he treated me as if I spent 1000's of dollars from his company. Not to mention 24 hour turnaround time, which includes a custom made cable (length, color, terminations).

 My transaction with him was like a breath of fresh air. 

 Wish they could all be as good as this.

 Thanks for the recommendations, to those of us who have done business with him in the past!


----------



## wuwhere

I made a mistake in my order and he emailed me right away informing me of my mistake.. Highly recommended.

 Out of the box, the D10 is incredible.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joseph from *sys concepts* just wrote me and told me that my cables are ready and they will be shipped tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 He even wrote me a couple of times to make sure that he understood my stack orientation, so he could make the cable as short, while staying flexible, as possible.

 My purchase was a small dollar sale, and he treated me as if I spent 1000's of dollars from his company. Not to mention 24 hour turnaround time, which includes a custom made cable (length, color, terminations).

 My transaction with him was like a breath of fresh air. 

 Wish they could all be as good as this.

 Thanks for the recommendations, to those of us who have done business with him in the past! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## jamato8

Yep, Joseph is a quality guy. After buying from him for about 5 years he has tailored, over time, the optical cable to the way it is today. I remember at one point he said he couldn't make it any smaller and that to get the bend needed he might not be able to and then got it done anyway. He takes care in the construction so that it will last and cares that it will. He is rare. RSA is like that and I know from emailing with iBasso that they are very concerned with quality and customer care.


----------



## jamato8

TopQuark;5436540 said:
			
		

> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


----------



## Gorthon

jamato8,

 It presume that your below pictured optical cable was specifed for a 3cm center to center with mini ends (non-metal). If so, it would also work in an upright u shape position. 

 My question is how much space is saved by using right angle connectors.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_








_


----------



## wuwhere

You save some depth space but add width space. If you get the toslink to miniplug without the shells, you add more depth space.


----------



## Gorthon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You save some depth space but add width space. If you get the toslink to miniplug without the shells, you add more depth space._

 

Rough idea how much space is saved?

 When you say "toslink to miniplug without the shells" I take that to me toslink on one end (D10) and mini on the other (iRiver). If that is correct, why would that add more depth?


----------



## immtbiker

I assumed that the horizontal u-shaped cable was angled up a bit, to get out of the way of the charge toggle.

 Wouldn't the toggle hit the 90 degree adapter if it wasn't angled up slightly?

 Question. The manual says that the charge light turns amber while charging and extinguishes when fully charged (claimed at about 6 hours). 

 I had mine plugged in using the AC adapter with the charge switch set to "on" for 11 hours, and the light never went out. Anyone else experience this?
 Also, why is there an additional red LED under the charge toggle?

 All of this was done with just the AC/USB plugged in and not hooked up to any input.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gorthon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rough idea how much space is saved?

 When you say "toslink to miniplug without the shells" I take that to me toslink on one end (D10) and mini on the other (iRiver). If that is correct, why would that add more depth?_

 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "space is saved"?

 Yes that's what I meant. I believe Jam's 3cm is with the iHP-140. I'm using an iHP-120 which is 3mm(?) shorter in height.


----------



## Gorthon

I am planning on getting a D10 to go with my iRivers. I need to determine how I want to route the optical cable before ordering from sys concepts. Could you help me out with the below questions.

 What is the optimal cable configuration to minimize the overall height of the stack?

 What is the optimal cable configuration to minimize the overall width of the stack?

 Is there are different center to center dimension that is specifed if you decide to go vertical or horizontal?

 There was mention about the right angle plugs angled upward. If you were to order a longer cable, say 4 cm, that should prevent the adapters from rotating upward ... Correct? 

 I would assume the extra length that would need to be specifed would be the horizontal offset between the two units when stacked on center. Does this sound logical to you guys and does anybody know what that dimension is ?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assumed that the horizontal u-shaped cable was angled up a bit, to get out of the way of the charge toggle.

 Wouldn't the toggle hit the 90 degree adapter if it wasn't angled up slightly?

 Question. The manual says that the charge light turns amber while charging and extinguishes when fully charged (claimed at about 6 hours). 

 I had mine plugged in using the AC adapter with the charge switch set to "on" for 11 hours, and the light never went out. Anyone else experience this?
 Also, why is there an additional red LED under the charge toggle?

 All of this was done with just the AC/USB plugged in and not hooked up to any input._

 

The angle of the 90-degree adapter is caused by the offset between the output of the iRiver and the input to D10 since they don't line up vertically.

 On my D10 the Red LED extinguished/turned off but the amber LED remained lit after about 30minutes of charging using the AC/USB with the charge toggle switch set to "on".


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

NVM


----------



## Gorthon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "space is saved"?_

 

What is the height difference between using a right angle configuration vs a not using right angle adapters?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gorthon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the height difference between using a right angle configuration vs a not using right angle adapters?_

 

The height of the stack is the same, but the u-bend vs 90 degree will make it about 1.5" deeper, all from the difference in cables.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gorthon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am planning on getting a D10 to go with my iRivers. I need to determine how I want to route the optical cable before ordering from sys concepts. Could you help me out with the below questions.

 What is the optimal cable configuration to minimize the overall height of the stack?

 What is the optimal cable configuration to minimize the overall width of the stack?

 Is there are different center to center dimension that is specifed if you decide to go vertical or horizontal?

 There was mention about the right angle plugs angled upward. If you were to order a longer cable, say 4 cm, that should prevent the adapters from rotating upward ... Correct? 

 I would assume the extra length that would need to be specifed would be the horizontal offset between the two units when stacked on center. Does this sound logical to you guys and does anybody know what that dimension is ?_

 

Mini-to-toslink w/o the shells would be the best. No adapters needed.

 I ordered both cables with 3cm C2C.

 I'm unsure about the 4cm C2C. Perhaps its enough.

 I measured the vertical offset and its about 5mm.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gorthon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the height difference between using a right angle configuration vs a not using right angle adapters?_

 


 The difference between this:







 ...and this, no?






 Mine will look different (and be a little shorter length) than Picture #1 because my Mini-Toslink cable was made *without* sleeves.

 I still don't see how the Charge toggle switch, wouldn't interfere with the right angle connectors, if you didn't angle them up slightly.
 It seems like it would *bash* right into the cable.


----------



## wuwhere

^^^ Same height, but from the picture, Jam's iHP-140 has footings that's why his is raised up a bit.


----------



## dazzer1975

wooo, its now at my local hub and will no doubt be sent out for delivery very soon.

 England really needs to sort its logistics out though, it took 17 hours for the amp to be picked up from ibasso's factory in Hong Kong, taken to the Hong Kong hub, sorted and loaded and then flown to London.

 It's currently taken 14 hours to get from london to manchester... and counting.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_of course you should use usb if thats what you plan.

 the sound will not be a million miles away from an optical connection, and remember as with most things, the differences are more subtle than they appear in the written form on head-fi in most instances._

 

I know...I'm just hearing some harshness in the highs on every can through this USB-to-DAC-to-Amp setup. It could be me "wanting" to hear a problem, but I'm curious enough to try. Will a USB-able optical soundcard be a solution, or will it just replicate the problem since it's USB as well? I have no idea what to try.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know...I'm just hearing some harshness in the highs on every can through this USB-to-DAC-to-Amp setup. It could be me "wanting" to hear a problem, but I'm curious enough to try. Will a USB-able optical soundcard be a solution, or will it just replicate the problem since it's USB as well? I have no idea what to try._

 

I honestly could not tell you and would not want to give you duff advice which ends up costing you money (if you bought something unsuitable or whatever)

 I Have yet to listen to an optical connection yet myself, I did have a usb pico dac but had to sell recently for some funds, so I couldn't even give a half way reliable comparison as it has been a month or two since I sold my pico now.

 I think if I wanted to utilise the optical connection on my d10 through my computer I would just buy a sound card that featured optical out.

 That being said, your suggestion could well be a cheaper solution.

 I would wait for the more experienced guys to give you a suggestion before you follow any route i give you.

 Sorry I can't be more help but I fully understand that nagging you have regarding wanting to try and get the best sound out of the equipment you have.


----------



## TopQuark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^^ Same height, but from the picture, Jam's iHP-140 has footings that's why his is raised up a bit._

 

Good point. Thanks. So as Jam said, the ideal C2C is 2.5cm.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I honestly could not tell you and would not want to give you duff advice which ends up costing you money (if you bought something unsuitable or whatever)

 I Have yet to listen to an optical connection yet myself, I did have a usb pico dac but had to sell recently for some funds, so I couldn't even give a half way reliable comparison as it has been a month or two since I sold my pico now.

 I think if I wanted to utilise the optical connection on my d10 through my computer I would just buy a sound card that featured optical out.

 That being said, your suggestion could well be a cheaper solution.

 I would wait for the more experienced guys to give you a suggestion before you follow any route i give you.

 Sorry I can't be more help but I fully understand that nagging you have regarding wanting to try and get the best sound out of the equipment you have._

 

No, I appreciate your candor. Your advice is much appreciated, brother.


----------



## yukihiro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wooo, its now at my local hub and will no doubt be sent out for delivery very soon.

 England really needs to sort its logistics out though, it took 17 hours for the amp to be picked up from ibasso's factory in Hong Kong, taken to the Hong Kong hub, sorted and loaded and then flown to London.

 It's currently taken 14 hours to get from london to manchester... and counting._

 

If you don't mind me asking, when did you order yours? I'm just trying to figure out a rough estimate of when I'll get mine. Seems like they're starting to send out the orders from ~3-4 weeks ago.


----------



## dazzer1975

ordered mine on the 5th (from memory and wuwhere's was ordered on the 7th) of february, but immtbiker ordered his sometime in january so goign off that I just presumed they had cleared the backlog of orders and shipped out at once and will now start working on orders as they come in?

 I could be wrong though.


----------



## yukihiro

That sounds promising. I ordered mine on the 12th, so they haven't finished all of their backlogged orders yet. It sounds like I'll be getting mine soon though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully they'll ship it before next week.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TopQuark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good point. Thanks. So as Jam said, the ideal C2C is 2.5mm._

 

2.5*cm* not *mm*. Just my opinion, with a 0-3mm footings, toslink-to-miniplug w/o shells, 2.5cm C2C would be the minimum.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ordered mine on the 5th (from memory and wuwhere's was ordered on the 7th) of february, but immtbiker ordered his sometime in january so goign off that I just presumed they had cleared the backlog of orders and shipped out at once and will now start working on orders as they come in?

 I could be wrong though._

 

You should have at least gotten a DHL tracking number by now.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The other interesting question is what signal is RockBox and the H140 actually outputting from this 24/192 file. Is it being downsampled before being send out or send out as 24/192._

 

Seems this subject is being debated in this thread at rockbox.org (started out as a question regarding the iPod about a year ago but tody somebody asked specifically about the H1XX, and the D10 is also mentioned in there) 24/96 (HIRES files for playback...)
 I'm not getting any more hires files until I know the answer to this because if it really downsamples there is no point in buying higher than 16/44.


----------



## jamato8

The light right by the USB comes on when the USB is plugged in. The charge light is the one that comes on red by the toggle. On mine, after some time it will go out but not always. The one confusing thing on the D10 is the charging. I normally just leave mine plugged in to the USB. 

 The toggle doesn't get in the way of the 90 degree optical connectors because they are just far enough away from the body to clear it.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interestingly, I have three DAC/amps connected at the same time to my Macbook Pro at this very moment, and I was listening to them by switching back and forth last night and today; and they all seem to be of equivalent sound quality albeit some small difference in sound signature - those being the D10 via Optical, Pico via USB and Duet via Firewire. 

 With my Westone ES3X the D10 and Pico are dead silent with no hiss, and the Apogee has a very slight background hiss with the volume all the way down (but not enough to interfere with listening to quiet music). Of the three, using the headphone out I prefer the D10 via optical and Duet via firewire by a small margin, both at 24/96 bit rates which allows me to hear more details with my native 24/96 music files.

 No more till my review is done. I'm working on the opamp rolling portion now._

 

than my t1 must be ultra sensitive. I heard very soft humming sound on D10 and it even louder on MisterXP. It also hiss with diablo and SuperMicroIV. Only with Reference, it dead silent. Lucky once the music start, it drown out those unwanted noise.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The light right by the USB comes on when the USB is plugged in. The charge light is the one that comes on red by the toggle. On mine, after some time it will go out but not always. The one confusing thing on the D10 is the charging. I normally just leave mine plugged in to the USB. 

 The toggle doesn't get in the way of the 90 degree optical connectors because they are just far enough away from the body to clear it._

 

Thanks for answering my questions John. Really appreciate it.

 Couldn't sleep last night so I listened to "Morph the Cat" in it's entirety.

 A truly pleasurable listening session. 
 I am going to leave the OEM stock op amps in for a while before I play.

 I can't believe what a perfect match the D-10 is to the iRiver. A match made in heaven.

 One thing that I noticed. With my MicroDac and my Desktop, while using the optical input, when I shut the source down or pause it, there is a shooshing noise when there is no lock, but it is dead silent with the Cobra.

 When you turn *off* the H-120, there is so noticeable sounds.


----------



## Packgrog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems this subject is being debated in this thread at rockbox.org (started out as a question regarding the iPod about a year ago but tody somebody asked specifically about the H1XX, and the D10 is also mentioned in there) 24/96 (HIRES files for playback...)
 I'm not getting any more hires files until I know the answer to this because if it really downsamples there is no point in buying higher than 16/44._

 

I've tried playing 24/96 FLAC files and my H120 couldn't handle it. I haven't played with this since, but either the CPU couldn't keep up with the decoding (I tend to encode everything at FLAC 8 which normally doesn't increase decoding speed much, but might for such large files), or the buffering just wasn't fast enough for such a large file. I've had no problems with 16/92 (which does sound noticeably better than 16/44) or 16/48. *shrug* I'll try again at some point, but I don't current have a means of measuring exactly what is coming out of the player.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Packgrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've tried playing 24/96 FLAC files and my H120 couldn't handle it. I haven't played with this since, but either the CPU couldn't keep up with the decoding (I tend to encode everything at FLAC 8 which normally doesn't increase decoding speed much, but might for such large files), or the buffering just wasn't fast enough for such a large file. I've had no problems with 16/92 (which does sound noticeably better than 16/44) or 16/48. *shrug* I'll try again at some point, but I don't current have a means of measuring exactly what is coming out of the player._

 

My H140 with RockBox 3.1 plays the 24/192 flac files just fine and it sounds noticeably better that the rest of my library that is all 320 KB aac but it would be nice to know exactly what is coming out of the optical output. We'll se if somebody answers in the thread on the RockBox forum.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems this subject is being debated in this thread at rockbox.org (started out as a question regarding the iPod about a year ago but tody somebody asked specifically about the H1XX, and the D10 is also mentioned in there) 24/96 (HIRES files for playback...)
 I'm not getting any more hires files until I know the answer to this because if it really downsamples there is no point in buying higher than 16/44._

 

After reading that thread, Rockbox, in its current form, brings everything back to 16/44. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Unless someone(s) develop the necessary software to support 24/96.


----------



## iriverdude

What about the line out? It may resample digital out to 16 bit/44 or 48khz but line out may be 24 bit 192khz (if the internal DAC supports it)


----------



## wuwhere

I wonder if the MP3 player that iBasso is currently developing supports higher bit samples and bit rates.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about the line out? It may resample digital out to 16 bit/44 or 48khz but line out may be 24 bit 192khz (if the internal DAC supports it)_

 

I'm sorry for my very basic knowledge but does the internal DAC work always and with every out of the player?


----------



## nc8000

Yes the internal dac is what converts the digital file (mp3, aac, whatever) to the analog signal that is being send to the headphone out (via an amplification circuit) and line-out for external amplification if the player has such an option. What is special about the iRiver H1XX series players is that they also support a digital line-out (optical) which sends the digital signal that is normally fed to the internal dac out of the unit for an external dac to convert it and external dac's are almost always of a higher quality than the ones built into the players.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about the line out? It may resample digital out to 16 bit/44 or 48khz but line out may be 24 bit 192khz (if the internal DAC supports it)_

 

Rockbox will always truncate the sample down to 16 bits and re-sample it at 44kHz, which means it does not matter whether you are using the internal or external DAC.


----------



## nc8000

Yes that is what it seems like at the moment. I think I'll still be getting the 24/192 files as future proofing as I'm sure they will be useable in full glory sometime in the future and even now they clearly sound better than my 320 kb aac files. Wheter there is a noticeable difference between the downsampled files and one natively in 16/44 I don't know and Linn's site requires me to buy the cd again in that format. You would have thought that buying (and paying the premium) the higest bit rate you would automatically get access to download the lower bitrate songs but apparently not. Also to get a waw version instead of a flac version you have to buy again.


----------



## iriverdude

What is the DAC spec in the ibasso? Just because you're playing back 24 bit 192khz does not mean there is no downsamling going on somwhere. Rockbox may add 24 bit 192khz internal conversion but does the optical output spec support that? And does the ibasso?


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes the internal dac is what converts the digital file (mp3, aac, whatever) to the analog signal that is being send to the headphone out (via an amplification circuit) and line-out for external amplification if the player has such an option. *What is special about the iRiver H1XX series players is that they also support a digital line-out (optical) which sends the digital signal* that is normally fed to the internal dac out of the unit for an external dac to convert it and external dac's are almost always of a higher quality than the ones built into the players._

 

But what I don't understand is: if the player can send out digital signal without be converted (skipping the internal DAC) and can read the file 24bit192Khz shouldn't the signal exit as it is read?


----------



## nc8000

That question seems to be moot if RockBox downsamples to 16/44 before passing it on to anything else. I guess RockBox has decided on this approach as there are very few players that can send digital data out and I can't think of any player that has a buildin dac that handles better than 16/44. An even if the digital data can be send out I suppose as iRiverdude states we don't know if the optical output on the iRiver players can handle it (I have no technical understanding of what goes on in the output stream) and also we don't know what the dac in the iBassos are capable of accepting as input. I just got carried away by the fact that the 24/192 files played and didn't think further


----------



## Luca T

So it's in part a problem of the software, but which is the purpose (or the benefit) of the software to be able to read 24bit192khz if then it's all downsampled to 16bit44khz?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So it's in part a problem of the software, but which is the purpose (or the benefit) of the software to be able to read 24bit192khz if then it's all downsampled to 16bit44khz?_

 

The benefit is you can play it back at CD quality.


----------



## nc8000

And if/when sometimes in the future a device comes that can play at full resolution you already have the software ready


----------



## Packgrog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes that is what it seems like at the moment. I think I'll still be getting the 24/192 files as future proofing as I'm sure they will be useable in full glory sometime in the future and even now they clearly sound better than my 320 kb aac files. Wheter there is a noticeable difference between the downsampled files and one natively in 16/44 I don't know and Linn's site requires me to buy the cd again in that format. You would have thought that buying (and paying the premium) the higest bit rate you would automatically get access to download the lower bitrate songs but apparently not. Also to get a waw version instead of a flac version you have to buy again._

 

Just worth noting: A 16/44 FLAC file will always sound better than a 320kb AAC file of the same recording. These are two different codecs, one of which is lossy.

 A better test would be to take a 24/96 FLAC file, transcode a copy to 16/44 (still in FLAC, just lower bitrate and sampling rate), then compare both files on the same player to see which sounds better. Foobar2000 is good for transcoding. It's also worth comparing these results using a different digital source (ie: a MacBook Pro or something similar). I don't know if the D10 can handle 24/96 through USB, but I DO know that the D1 is limited to 16/48 on USB, but can reach 24/192 via SPDIF. You would need something like Foobar2000 and ASIO4ALL on Windows to be able to reproduce this. Don't know how to set that on OSX, and I don't think Linux has much capability for it yet.

 It's worth noting as well that I've tried some 24/192 files through TOSLINK to my D1 using Foobar2000 and ASIO4ALL, and the difference was subtle at best. And for my case, I prefer the sound of my Monica 3 Non-oversampling 16-bit DAC, though that's dedicated and more expensive. *shrug*.

 I'm curious to hear how the D10 stacks up against the D1, though.


----------



## jopagi

I ordered the D10 last week, it left Hong Kong Tuesday, and arrived yesterday. Amazing.

 I really appreciate all the little extras they supply with it. The 120v to USB charger plug will come in handy for my iPod.

 Even without any break-in, the DAC section is flat out incredible. I've never heard my E500s sound so spacious. The HD650 sound great, though they could use a bit more current. I get a little bit of noise via USB, but that could be the computer, not the D10.

 I'm hearing more detail than I do from my Benchmark DAC-1! How is that possible? I just don't get it. In any case, I'm very impressed.


----------



## nc8000

The comparison that to me seems to be the most important is between the 24/192 downsampled by RockBox and the same recording in the 16/44 version tha Linn also offers to decide whether the RockBox downsampler actually degrades the sound below a native 16/44 version but I have my doubts as to whether I have good enough ears to detect that.


----------



## HiFlight

As it is now, the sound quality my 320kb MP3 files fed via iRiver optical output thru my D10 optical input which in turns feeds my Stax006t via the D10 Aux output exceeds the ability of my ears to resolve anything further. 

 My equipment keeps improving while my ears don't! I wonder if more burn-in would help them! :>)


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The comparison that to me seems to be the most important is between the 24/192 downsampled by RockBox and the same recording in the 16/44 version tha Linn also offers to decide whether the RockBox downsampler actually degrades the sound below a native 16/44 version but I have my doubts as to whether I have good enough ears to detect that._

 

How does downsampling work?

 Is it an "down" re-encoding via software?


----------



## nc8000

Now I don't know this so it is pure conjecture. RockBox seems to work on 32 bit sampling rate and at 192 Khz internally so my guess would be that since this procuces many more samples than what is needed in 16/44 som sort of average of a number of samples is taken to produce enough samples for the 16/44 soundstream and thereby loosing some resolution.


----------



## Luca T

I don't think that my ears would feel the difference anyway I'm curious to try listening of 24bit192khz files!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does downsampling work?

 Is it an "down" re-encoding via software?_

 

In a nutshell, its like doing an analog to digital conversion (ADC) except its a digital to digital conversion. Rockbox can take up to a 32 bit sample and bring it down to 16 bits. So it is throwing away the least significant 8 bits in a 24 bit sample at 44kHz rate. And this is being done by software in real-time, meaning as you are listening to the music it is doing this conversion.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now I don't know this so it is pure conjecture. RockBox seems to work on 32 bit sampling rate and at 192 Khz internally so my guess would be that since this procuces many more samples than what is needed in 16/44 som sort of average of a number of samples is taken to produce enough samples for the 16/44 soundstream and thereby loosing some resolution._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In a nutshell, its like doing an analog to digital conversion (ADC) except its a digital to digital conversion. Rockbox can take up to a 32 bit sample and bring it down to 16 bits. So it is throwing away the least significant 8 bits in a 24 bit sample at 44kHz rate. And this is being done by software in real-time, meaning as you are listening to the music it is doing this conversion._

 

Understood, thanks a lot!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Packgrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've tried playing 24/96 FLAC files and my H120 couldn't handle it. I haven't played with this since, but either the CPU couldn't keep up with the decoding (I tend to encode everything at FLAC 8 which normally doesn't increase decoding speed much, but might for such large files), or the buffering just wasn't fast enough for such a large file. I've had no problems with 16/92 (which does sound noticeably better than 16/44) or 16/48. *shrug* I'll try again at some point, but I don't current have a means of measuring exactly what is coming out of the player._

 

You might need Rockbox to handle 24/96 (mine has it).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes that is what it seems like at the moment. I think I'll still be getting the 24/192 files as future proofing as I'm sure they will be useable in full glory sometime in the future and even now they clearly sound better than my 320 kb aac files. Wheter there is a noticeable difference between the downsampled files and one natively in 16/44 I don't know and Linn's site requires me to buy the cd again in that format. You would have thought that buying (and paying the premium) the higest bit rate you would automatically get access to download the lower bitrate songs but apparently not. Also to get a waw version instead of a flac version you have to buy again._

 

I know when the Macbook down-samples the 24/96 to 16/44 that they sound almost identical, and it takes a lot of time and concentration to pin down the difference. I haven't bothered to see how well the H140 does, and I haven't tried 24/192 since all my optical DACs are limited to 24/96 while their coax can do 24/192. I only have one readily accessible 24/192 coax source, my Akai portable DVD player, and it doesn't get much use since I don't have many DVD-Audio. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the DAC spec in the ibasso? Just because you're playing back 24 bit 192khz does not mean there is no downsamling going on somwhere. Rockbox may add 24 bit 192khz internal conversion but does the optical output spec support that? And does the ibasso?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Packgrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just worth noting: A 16/44 FLAC file will always sound better than a 320kb AAC file of the same recording. These are two different codecs, one of which is lossy.

 A better test would be to take a 24/96 FLAC file, transcode a copy to 16/44 (still in FLAC, just lower bitrate and sampling rate), then compare both files on the same player to see which sounds better. Foobar2000 is good for transcoding. It's also worth comparing these results using a different digital source (ie: a MacBook Pro or something similar). I don't know if the D10 can handle 24/96 through USB, but I DO know that the D1 is limited to 16/48 on USB, but can reach 24/192 via SPDIF. You would need something like Foobar2000 and ASIO4ALL on Windows to be able to reproduce this. Don't know how to set that on OSX, and I don't think Linux has much capability for it yet.

 It's worth noting as well that I've tried some 24/192 files through TOSLINK to my D1 using Foobar2000 and ASIO4ALL, and the difference was subtle at best. And for my case, I prefer the sound of my Monica 3 Non-oversampling 16-bit DAC, though that's dedicated and more expensive. *shrug*.

 I'm curious to hear how the D10 stacks up against the D1, though._

 

I'm pretty sure the D10 coax can do 24/192, just don't know about the optical. I can set my Macbook to output 24/96 optical and the DAC accepts it fine, so we know at least 24/96 optical. The D1 however would choke on any optical more than 24/48, and just make noise.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As it is now, the sound quality my 320kb MP3 files fed via iRiver optical output thru my D10 optical input which in turns feeds my Stax006t via the D10 Aux output exceeds the ability of my ears to resolve anything further. 

 My equipment keeps improving while my ears don't! I wonder if more burn-in would help them! :>)_

 

320kb MP3 wouldn't be my optimum test data rate, because with the right combination of gear I can hear the difference in 320K and lossless, although 320K sounds fantastic and is what I often use as well for entertainment purposes. But, when I'm testing gear and looking to see just how far I can hear into the music, lossless is the way to go for me.


----------



## clasam

Hey guys, just wondering,

 Is there enough space in the D10 to fit a single x2 to dual Dip to Dip brown dog adapter?

 Jon


----------



## dazzer1975

moot point if rockbox limits the output anyway but here is a reply I received from Ibasso regarding its optical connection:

 Thank you for your email.
 The D10 has the WM8740 D/A chip, it can do decoding on 24/192. However, our equipment outputs 24/96 at most. We cant test the 24/192. Sorry about that.


----------



## immtbiker

I don't think that iBasso ever dreamed it would get involved with such a bunch of inquisitive audio "geeks" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But it should be worth it to them, if their sales exceeds expectations.

 Then again, any company that is cool enough to provide the "average Joe" with a choice of chips to swap and even include the allen key, must have the foresight that this would come with the territory.

 This opens new exciting horizons to our most beloved hobby. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Their customer service seems to have stepped up a notch since recovering from their New Year festivities.

 Kudos to iBasso. A great product for a good price.


----------



## dazzer1975

I agree, these kind of products for these prices, and with the customer service you receive (always received a reply to emails within 24hrs of sending) means Ibasso deserve all the success they get.

 Now, onto another question.

 Considering the reply from Ibasso above, if I wanted to connect an sacd player to my d10 optically, it means that I wont be getting to full sacd audio outputted will I?


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D1 however would choke on any optical more than 24/48, and just make noise._

 

In that case we know for certain the the H-140 is not outputting 24/192 since I'm using it with a D1 until my D10 arrives.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the reply from Ibasso above, if I wanted to connect an sacd player to my d10 optically, it means that I wont be getting to full sacd audio outputted will I?_

 

The way I read the reply they say that the chip can handle full 24/192 but they have never tested it as they don't have a source that can deliver it so they don't know if the D10 can


----------



## wuwhere

They certainly know how to feed the insatiable appetite of head-fiers for new portable audio toys. I can't wait for their version of an on-the-go DAP.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree, these kind of products for these prices, and with the customer service you receive (always received a reply to emails within 24hrs of sending) means Ibasso deserve all the success they get.

 Now, onto another question.

 Considering the reply from Ibasso above, if I wanted to connect an sacd player to my d10 optically, it means that I wont be getting to full sacd audio outputted will I?_

 

You will let us know when you received your D10, right?


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You will let us know when you received your D10, right?_

 

I will.

 Get this:

 It took 17 hours from factory in hong kong to london

 14 hours from london to manchester
 and it will be tomorrow now when I get the amp which will mean it has taken over 24 hours to do the last 25 mile leg.

 Britain is ******* and the sooner I get my degree the better, as I am out of this dump.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will.

 Get this:

 It took 17 hours from factory in hong kong to london

 14 hours from london to manchester
 and it will be tomorrow now when I get the amp which will mean it has taken over 24 hours to do the last 25 mile leg.

 Britain is ******* and the sooner I get my degree the better, as I am out of this dump._

 

Do you have to pay import tax? My D10 was declared as a sample and therefore no import tax.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Considering the reply from Ibasso above, if I wanted to connect an sacd player to my d10 optically, it means that I wont be getting to full sacd audio outputted will I?_

 

Except for the Emm Labs and some dCS dac/transport combos, I believe that most SACD players, such as my Esoteric DV-50, still output in PCM, so it wouldn't matter.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, just wondering,

 Is there enough space in the D10 to fit a single x2 to dual Dip to Dip brown dog adapter?

 Jon_

 


 Jon...
 Short answer...NO. 
 There are, however, a pretty good assortment of nice-sounding dual-channel, low voltage opamps that work well. Check page 30 of this thread.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, just wondering,

 Is there enough space in the D10 to fit a single x2 to dual Dip to Dip brown dog adapter?

 Jon_

 

No, it needs to be a stacked over under soldered SOIC onto the 2:1 kinda thing.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Except for the Emm Labs and some dCS dac/transport combos, I believe that most SACD players, such as my Esoteric DV-50, still output in PCM, so it wouldn't matter._

 

I was thinking you'd have to go DVD audio to be sure of getting 24/192, right?


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have to pay import tax? My D10 was declared as a sample and therefore no import tax._

 

No, don't think so anyway, the last dhl shipment I had evaded import duties, and this one has tried to be delivered already (so they say).. but they didn't, this is the second time ive had dhl deliver goods and the second time they said the same thing.

 But I don't live in a rambling estate and can see and hear everyone who comes to the front door, not to mention my trusty canine friend goes off his head the moment anyone so much as breathes in the front garden.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Except for the Emm Labs and some dCS dac/transport combos, I believe that most SACD players, such as my Esoteric DV-50, still output in PCM, so it wouldn't matter._

 

so then, what is the advantage of sacd if they tend to output in standard cd quality?

 I dont understand (wont be the first time)


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have to pay import tax? My D10 was declared as a sample and therefore no import tax._

 

Really? It would be a really good thing!
 I send to them an email to ask about some their european dealer to avoid the import tax and they answered that they have one dealer in Uk but they export there just D2boa and T4


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thinking you'd have to go DVD audio to be sure of getting 24/192, right?_

 

It's not so easy to find a lot of DVD Audio or SACD, there is a very small choice of them!


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not so easy to find a lot of DVD Audio or SACD, there is a very small choice of them!_

 

For jazz and classical there are several 1000 sacd titles but not many shops carry them


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really? It would be a really good thing!
 I send to them an email to ask about some their european dealer to avoid the import tax and they answered that they have one dealer in Uk but they export there just D2boa and T4
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

They have a dealer in Denmark www.headaudeo.dk that carrys the whole range but obvious at higher prices than iBasso themselves


----------



## immtbiker

I just remebered that on the outside of my package, the description was marked "USB Device". 

 Accurate and yet effective. I still had a sticker on my package that said "Inspected".

 One recommendation for iBasso. They sent a flimsy thin cardboard box inside a jiffy pak. Luckily, aside from the box looking smooshed, the box was packaged so tightly that everything was fine.

 A Ray Samuel type box would have been more effective. As it stands, I can't use the box anymore and if I ever wanted to sell it (which I doubt) I can't use the original packaging.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They have a dealer in Denmark www.headaudeo.dk that carrys the whole range but obvious at higher prices than iBasso themselves_

 

Thanks I've already checked it when you posted it previously, but probably it's more expansive than pay import tax!


----------



## woof37

DHL has issues...this isn't the first time they've left a "signature required, next attempt tomorrow" sign on my door, then not showed up the next day. I thought they went out of business anyway?


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just remebered that on the outside of my package, the description was marked "USB Device". 

 Accurate and yet effective. I still had a sticker on my package that said "Inspected".

 One recommendation for iBasso. They sent a flimsy thin cardboard box inside a jiffy pak. Luckily, aside from the box looking smooshed, the box was packaged so tightly that everything was fine.

 A Ray Samuel type box would have been more effective. As it stands, I can't use the box anymore and if I ever wanted to sell it (which I doubt) I can't use the original packaging._

 

I had the same thing to happen.iBasso definitely needs to use heaver packaging .


----------



## khtse

Got mine today. The form factor is much smaller than I thought (this is my first portable amp)!

 Does your D10 come with an iPod LOD? Mine comes with one, which I didn't expect for it since it was not mentioned on the product page. However, it does not work with my iPod touch 2g... I guess it is LOD for older generation of iPods.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DHL has issues... I thought they went out of business anyway?_

 

You might be thinking about Airborne Express which I'm pretty sure DHL bought out, and took their routes in the US.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *khtse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does your D10 come with an iPod LOD? Mine comes with one, which I didn't expect for it since it was not mentioned on the product page. However, it does not work with my iPod touch 2g... I guess it is LOD for older generation of iPods._

 

iBasso told me that they were including a small gift (the LOD) for those who were waiting since B4 New Years. Does the touch have the same dock as the 4th and 5th and 6th generation iPods?


----------



## khtse

Physically yes, but internally wiring for the iPhone 3G and iPod Touch 2G have changed a little bit making many perviously iPod compatible devices not compatible with them without modificaiton.

 iBasso used to sell an iPod LOD and another New iPod LOD, the latter one being compatible with iPhone 3G and iPod Touch 2G. Now they only sell the new one, so I guess this is one of they way to clear out old stock... Anyway, since I didn't pay for them, it doesn't really matter to me that it doesn't work.


----------



## wuwhere

Mine came with a LOD too. I don't have any use for it since I never owned an iPod.


----------



## jamato8

I have noticed that after 600 plus hours there is even a more open sound and a little different character to the sound. The transient response is even better. I am a little surprised but pleased.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have noticed that after 600 plus hours there is even a more open sound and a little different character to the sound. The transient response is even better. I am a little surprised but pleased._

 

That's amazing. So far I only have 26 hours of burn-in on low gain.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have noticed that after 600 plus hours there is even a more open sound and a little different character to the sound. The transient response is even better. I am a little surprised but pleased._

 

I have about 400 hours so far. Things have been crazy around here, and it's like kids activities every day - cub scout cross over tuesday, taekwondo for my son wed, H&R block today, a hospital charity banquet tomorrow, build a pinecar and sell girl scout cookies on Saturday, like when can I have some time to finish my review?


----------



## spookz

do you guys know just how back ordered ibasso is for the d10? i want to get one but i rather wait for it to be instock than back ordered.. (i dont like my money to be held while waiting forever to recieve an item).


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spookz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you guys know just how back ordered ibasso is for the d10? i want to get one but i rather wait for it to be instock than back ordered.. (i dont like my money to be held while waiting forever to recieve an item)._

 

Send them an email and ask.


----------



## El_Doug

people seem to be getting them within 2 weeks, judging by the posts in this thread


----------



## nc8000

I ordered 48 hours ago but have not even received an order confirmation and emailed them 24 hours ago but has not received a reply to that either


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks I've already checked it when you posted it previously, but probably it's more expansive than pay import tax!_

 

Yes they will be as they have to do all the service and support including the 2 year warranty required by danish law and cover the danish 25% vat and they would especially expensive for UK customers due to the poor pound exchange rate. Their price for the D10 is 2500 DKK which equates to abot $450 while buying it but directly from iBasso I have to pay $300 including shipping. However if the parcel get caught by danish customs I have to add 5% import tax, 25% vat and $25 handling fee bringing my total to $405.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...taekwondo for my son wed, H&R block today_

 

That's freaky 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I also went to H & R Block today!


----------



## yukihiro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered 48 hours ago but have not even received an order confirmation and emailed them 24 hours ago but has not received a reply to that either_

 

I don't think they give order confirmations besides the PayPal payment receipt. I was hoping mine would be shipped by Friday, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I purchased mine a week ago.


----------



## nc8000

Just received a reply to my email and they say that my amp will ship monday. Then after some burn-in to compare it to the D1 and RudiStor XJ-03 but I'm almost certain that it is of such a quality that convenience will dictate that I sell the XJ-03, return the D1 to home office duty where it is usb dac and preamp for my powered Boston Accoustics computer speakers and the consolidate my travel tig to consist of the D10, H140, D-NE920 and SysConcept optical cable.


----------



## dazzer1975

rung dhl this morning (closed last night)

 shipment on hold, driver lied about attempting delivery, no failed delivery note left and me, dog and other family members in all day.

 Too late to send it out today as drivers all left on their routes (conveniently, this occurs before the phone lines open) delivery will not be re-attempted until monday.

 Needless to say I shall take 20 minutes out of my day to collect it in person and tell em what a bunch of "special" people they are.

 Do you know, from the same consignment, amps left the factory and were in peoples hands across america within practically 24 hours.

 The same amps left the factory and arrived in london within 17 hrs.

 If I wait till Monday it would have taken 6 or 7 days to get the amp from London to just outside Manchester.

 Hang your head in shame Britain, you're pretty piss poor.


----------



## nc8000

Found the spec sheet for the Phillips UDA1380TT that is supposed to be the ADC/DAC chip in iRiver H1XX units.

 24-bit data path for Analog-to-Digital Converter (ADC)
 and Digital-to-Analog Converter (DAC)

 Supports sample frequencies from 8 to 55 kHz for the
 ADC part, and 8 to 100 kHz for the DAC part. The ADC
 does not support DVD audio (96 kHz audio), only
 Mini-Disc (MD), Compact-Disc (CD) and Moving Picture
 Experts Group Layer-3 Audio (MP3). For playback
 8 to 100 kHz is specified. DVD playback is supported

 So if I understand this correctly the hardware in the unit should be able to handle 24/96 files


----------



## iriverdude

Quote:


 shipment on hold, driver lied about attempting delivery, no failed delivery note left and me, dog and other family members in all day. 
 

In my experience, when that's occured it's been caught by customs.


----------



## dazzer1975

If the customs had stopped it I would have been notified of a customs charge, not an attempted delivery report.

 It isn't clandestine, they are very upfront about you paying importation duties you know.

 As it is, british arm of dhl obviously dont want to finish their deliveries if it is getting close to knock off time.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes they will be as they have to do all the service and support including the 2 year warranty required by danish law and cover the danish 25% vat and they would especially expensive for UK customers due to the poor pound exchange rate. Their price for the D10 is 2500 DKK which equates to abot $450 while buying it but directly from iBasso I have to pay $300 including shipping. However if the parcel get caught by danish customs I have to add 5% import tax, 25% vat and $25 handling fee bringing my total to $405._

 

I'm italian and I have to pay 20% VAT plus 5€ of import managing cost plus a percentage of import tax that I don't know exactly how much it is from china for that kind of product!


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_rung dhl this morning (closed last night)

 shipment on hold, driver lied about attempting delivery, no failed delivery note left and me, dog and other family members in all day.

 Too late to send it out today as drivers all left on their routes (conveniently, this occurs before the phone lines open) delivery will not be re-attempted until monday.

 Needless to say I shall take 20 minutes out of my day to collect it in person and tell em what a bunch of "special" people they are.

 Do you know, from the same consignment, amps left the factory and were in peoples hands across america within practically 24 hours.

 The same amps left the factory and arrived in london within 17 hrs.

 If I wait till Monday it would have taken 6 or 7 days to get the amp from London to just outside Manchester.

 Hang your head in shame Britain, you're pretty piss poor._

 

Are they DHL or Royal Mail?

 Don't comlain too much about Uk services, you should live a period in italy to know what is a real crap service!


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are they DHL or Royal Mail?

 Don't comlain too much about Uk services, you should live a period in italy to know what is a real crap service!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes antonyfirst once had a Westone replacement cable from Jaben take 5-6 weeks to arrive and at least 4 weeks of that was in Italian customs/post as I recall


----------



## Luca T

Does ibasso deliver through Dhl?


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yukihiro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think they give order confirmations besides the PayPal payment receipt. I was hoping mine would be shipped by Friday, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I purchased mine a week ago._

 

I received an e-mail confirmation from iBasso.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_rung dhl this morning (closed last night)

 shipment on hold, driver lied about attempting delivery, no failed delivery note left and me, dog and other family members in all day.

 Too late to send it out today as drivers all left on their routes (conveniently, this occurs before the phone lines open) delivery will not be re-attempted until monday.

 Needless to say I shall take 20 minutes out of my day to collect it in person and tell em what a bunch of "special" people they are.

 Do you know, from the same consignment, amps left the factory and were in peoples hands across america within practically 24 hours.

 The same amps left the factory and arrived in london within 17 hrs.

 If I wait till Monday it would have taken 6 or 7 days to get the amp from London to just outside Manchester.

 Hang your head in shame Britain, you're pretty piss poor._

 

This is why I posted the bit about taking 3 days to deliver a letter from NY to NJ (neighboring states) but received a package 1 day from Hong Kong!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does ibasso deliver through Dhl?_

 

In the States, the final courier was DHL (ugly yellow trucks).


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is why I posted the bit about taking 3 days to deliver a letter from NY to NJ (neighboring states) but received a package 1 day from Hong Kong!_

 

It seems so strange, well, it is so strange, things can traverse the globe in less than a day yet it takes half a week to travel a few miles.


 Luca T:

 Dhl is the shipper ibasso use and who were responsible for my delivery in the uk too.

 Back home now, and am seriously impressed with the package of goods.

 Ibasso will probably be getting a lot more custom from me in the future. 

 Nuff Said.

 Now to listen to the beast.


----------



## immtbiker

The reason why I never bought a Pico or Predator, was because they *only* offer a USB input.
 How iBasso also offers toslink and coax digital input w/ management logic to seek out the hierarchy of inputs, allows for the DAC or amp to be used in standalone mode with the inclusion of a 1/8" output which shuts down the headphone port, and DAC and amp that holds it's water, in an attractive case, for a reasonable price, pleases me. 
 Also, besides a gain switch, it offers the ability to keep a USB source plugged in all of the time because it has a charge on/off switch. Not to mention the ability to swap chips to cater to taste. What's not to like?
 That's a lot of back for the buck!

 It's really an "end all" package. Sorry that I'm gushing all over this (not usually my style), but deservedly so.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The reason why I never bought a Pico or Predator, was because they *only* offer a USB input.
 How iBasso also offers toslink and coax digital input w/ management logic to seek out the hierarchy of inputs, allows for the DAC or amp to be used in standalone mode with the inclusion of a 1/8" output which shuts down the headphone port, and DAC and amp that holds it's water, in an attractive case, for a reasonable price, pleases me. 
 Also, besides a gain switch, it offers the ability to keep a USB source plugged in all of the time because it has a charge on/off switch. Not to mention the ability to swap chips to cater to taste. What's not to like?
 That's a lot of back for the buck!

 It's really an "end all" package. Sorry that I'm gushing all over this (not usually my style), but deservedly so._

 

Its also the little touches, the included optical cable, the mini to mini, the two pleather? cases, the op amps, spare screws, allen keys.

 It really is quite an achievement, and then you consider the price like you say and that's just the icing on the cake.

 Ibasso deserve all the plaudits they get.

 Currently using it as a dac only feeding my iqube through to shure 530's and am very pleased with the sound.

 Am detecting some hiss through the d10's amp hence the switch to iqube which has reduced it (I listen at high volumes) but then again, its got 20 minutes on the d10, the 530's are notorious for their sensitivity and you can roll op amps to find a different flavour. 

 I hope ibasso goes from strength to strength while retaining their present philosophy.


----------



## musicmaker

Anyone know if a dac only portable unit is in plan ?


----------



## Packgrog

Well, to be fair to the Pico and Predator, they're built in the US (parts and labor are much cheaper in China), and the build quality is superior.

 This isn't a bash on iBasso, as I use my D1 more than my RSA Tomahawk since I prefer the sound, but there's no doubt in my mind that an RSA amp could take more of a beating than an iBasso amp. I have no problem using my Tomahawk when mowing the lawn, but I'm quite wary of using my D1 in such hot and dusty/dirty situations. The 1/8" connectors on the D1 feel cheap and rough when plugging in a cable, whereas it feels smooth and solid with the Tomahawk. These are little things, but they add up. The increased expense of Predator and Pico is not unreasonable.

 Again, iBasso build quality is good, and the feature set is great for the price. The build quality of these others is simply better.


----------



## Andrew Jones

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hang your head in shame Britain, you're pretty piss poor._

 

One badly run company does not warrant this sort of comment. Especially from someone being educated at tax payers' expense (the tuition fee barely scratches the surface). If it's so bad here, do the honourable thing, leave now and fund the rest of your education yourself. Either that, or give the whining a rest.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmaker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know if a dac only portable unit is in plan ?_

 

This has been rumoured (earlier in this thread I think). The word was "Don't hassle iBasso, just way for the announcement". Same with the amp with build-in dap.


----------



## dazzer1975

.


----------



## immtbiker

OK. This is going in a bad, no-win direction.

 If you guys want to continue the Pro-England/Anti-England conversation, you guys need to find another means of communication outside of this thread.


----------



## dazzer1975

i'll edit my post, and sorry for the derail.


----------



## wuwhere

Same here on the usb only Pico/Predator. That's why when iBasso announced the D10 with an optical, coax, usb, and opamp rolling at $275, I was sold.


----------



## yukihiro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received an e-mail confirmation from iBasso_

 

Thanks for letting me know. I just sent them a message with their contact form. Maybe that's why mine hasn't shipped yet haha. Oh well.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yukihiro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for letting me know. I just sent them a message with their contact form. Maybe that's why mine hasn't shipped yet haha. Oh well._

 

I got an email today saying mine would ship today. I purchased on the 15th of this month. Unfortunately, when I used Paypal, the wrong mailing address was used. I sent an email stating my correct mailing address. They confirmed right away. Great customer service

 PS. Yukihiro, where in La Jolla do you live? I lived there for several years while going to school.


----------



## PeterDLai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got an email today saying mine would ship today. I purchased on the 15th of this month. Unfortunately, when I used Paypal, the wrong mailing address was used. I sent an email stating my correct mailing address. They confirmed right away. Great customer service

 PS. Yukihiro, where in La Jolla do you live? I lived there for several years while going to school._

 

Interesting. I ordered mine on February 12th and have yet to receive any notification of shipment or confirmation (besides the standard PayPal receipt).

 I'll go ahead and send them a message to see what's up.


----------



## arirug

Reveived it today! Delivered by DHL. I am amazed by all the stuff iBasso has stuffed into the box. Even an ipod Line-Out adapter. I don`t no what it sounds like yet, because it is charging, but based on the impressions I so far have read, I guess it will sound great!


----------



## Luca T

I've finally purchased!


----------



## Gberg

Where are some reviews/comparisons for this D10


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are some reviews/comparisons for this D10_

 

It's coming soon on the forum!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've finally purchased!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

About time, you do have an iHP-120/140, right?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are some reviews/comparisons for this D10_

 

HeadphoneAddict is working on a review.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About time, you do have an iHP-120/140, right?_

 

No, I've the cowon S9 (and Samsung K3 that I use when I go to run so even if it fell down I don't care), I have been quite stupid not to buy even Iriver H-140 when I was in South Korea (I think I could find there)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'll do next time


----------



## TopQuark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2.5*cm* not *mm*. Just my opinion, with a 0-3mm footings, toslink-to-miniplug w/o shells, 2.5cm C2C would be the minimum._

 

What's funny is I ordered the cable also in mm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It's good Joseph from Sys-Concept corrected it.

 Excellent support by Sys-Concept. Ordered it ~1:00am. They shipped it out first thing the next morning.

 I ordered the one with brown shell, by the way, since length is not critical for me and a 1 meter toslink-to-miniplug cable to use for my external amp/speaker system.

 I got this brand new H140 that I used once and kept in box the last 4 years that I will, finally, put it into use.


----------



## yukihiro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got an email today saying mine would ship today. I purchased on the 15th of this month. Unfortunately, when I used Paypal, the wrong mailing address was used. I sent an email stating my correct mailing address. They confirmed right away. Great customer service

 PS. Yukihiro, where in La Jolla do you live? I lived there for several years while going to school._

 

Hmm... I wonder why they haven't shipped mine yet. I live near UTC kind of. Trying to finish school in 1 more year... haha

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PeterDLai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. I ordered mine on February 12th and have yet to receive any notification of shipment or confirmation (besides the standard PayPal receipt).

 I'll go ahead and send them a message to see what's up._

 

Me too... I ordered mine on the 12th also and only received the PayPal receipt. Maybe something was wrong with their system that day? oh well... I'm sure it'll come soon.


 Hmm... I'm debating whether or not to get an h120 in the future so I can use the optical out. It's way too expensive right now though. They're super old, used and cost more than my Fuze! lol


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are some reviews/comparisons for this D10_

 

I have a big USB DAC amp review that I am adding the D10 to. I have posted some teasers here in this thread if you search this thread for posts by me in the past 2-3 weeks. The review will be posted this weekend for sure.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Packgrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, to be fair to the Pico and Predator, they're built in the US (parts and labor are much cheaper in China), and the build quality is superior.

 This isn't a bash on iBasso, as I use my D1 more than my RSA Tomahawk since I prefer the sound, but there's no doubt in my mind that an RSA amp could take more of a beating than an iBasso amp. I have no problem using my Tomahawk when mowing the lawn, but I'm quite wary of using my D1 in such hot and dusty/dirty situations. The 1/8" connectors on the D1 feel cheap and rough when plugging in a cable, whereas it feels smooth and solid with the Tomahawk. These are little things, but they add up. The increased expense of Predator and Pico is not unreasonable.

 Again, iBasso build quality is good, and the feature set is great for the price. The build quality of these others is simply better._

 

I must say that I find my D1 to be the most solid and tank like build portable amp I have encountered it's just big so the D10 was a no brainer just for it's size alone


----------



## vkvedam

Sounds like iBasso D10 is kind of a revelation in the portable amp/DAC so far.


----------



## mrarroyo

Many (jamato8, HiFlight, HeadphoneAddict, myself, etc) have posted sufficient information so anyone who has follow this thread knows what a great unit the D10 is. It does need a good amount of burn-in, about 450 hours or so.

 I should be receiving a mounted (thanks HiFlight) AD8066 soon and will see how it sounds w/ it instead of the AD797's.


----------



## wuwhere

I just modded one of my iHP-120 from HD to CF adapter-16GB SDHC. No more slow music access and mechanical noise. Now I'm waiting for my 32GB SDHC.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many (jamato8, HiFlight, HeadphoneAddict, myself, etc) have posted sufficient information so anyone who has follow this thread knows what a great unit the D10 is. It does need a good amount of burn-in, about 450 hours or so.

 I should be receiving a mounted (thanks HiFlight) AD8066 soon and will see how it sounds w/ it instead of the AD797's._

 

I haven't been able to finish my review because the darn thing continues to change past the 300 hour mark...

 I will try it with the AD8066 this weekend, as well as with the AD8397, LMH6622/55, and if I still have my AD8656 then that too. I have an OPA627x2 on a small 2:1 over under I should try just for the sound, although HiFlight said battery life is bad. I do have a pair of AD743 on a 2:1 that wont fit with the case closed, but if it will fit with the case open I might try it. 

 I plan to have the D10 open all day Saturday trying opamps on HiFlight's list, I just can't remember about which of them that I sent away with the D1 - I think I gave up the stock ones, AD797, LT6234 and LMH6643 as buffers.


----------



## arirug

Now I have listened to the D10 with a sony DN-E10 portable CD-player through optical out for two hours. Headphones were Sennheiser HD650. This system beats the Ray Samuels Tomahawk with an Imod and Jumbo Cryo mini to mini and the same headphones. I just intended to listen for a few minutes, but it sounded so good that the minutes became to hours! iBasso D10 is a bargain!


----------



## Dublo7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arirug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now I have listened to the D10 with a sony DN-E10 portable CD-player through optical out for two hours. Headphones were Sennheiser HD650. This system beats the Ray Samuels Tomahawk with an Imod and Jumbo Cryo mini to mini and the same headphones. I just intended to listen for a few minutes, but it sounded so good that the minutes became to hours! iBasso D10 is a bargain!_

 

Wow, it drove the 650s without issue? That is awesome.


----------



## arirug

To me it sounded very good with the Sennheiser HD650! 

 I forgot to mention that I used Apple Lossless on the Imod.


----------



## jopagi

I was *very* impressed with the D10 and the 650 combo on my first listen. I've never heard the 650s with such a liquid, relaxed soundstage. It was truly a joy to listen.

 With more demanding low-frequency music, however, some of the 650 punch was clearly missing. There's really only so much current it can swing, after all.


----------



## jopagi

My laptops's audio setup (SigmaTel High Definition Audio CODEC) generates test tones at various sample rates to see if the receiving digital player can support those rates. The tones come through fine at 96.0 KHz via S/PDIF Coax into the D10, but I don't hear anything at 192KHz.

 So I guess that means my hearing's only good up to 96KHz


----------



## arirug

Two of the CD`s I tried were Johnny cash June Carter "Duets", and a collection by a Swedish singer, Lena Philipson. I will try the D10 with my Denon AH-D2000 marklmodded DeLuxe version later today


----------



## Dublo7

Jopagi, have you tried driving the K701 with the D10?

 I'd love to hear if anyone here has tried the DT880s/DT990s on the D10.


----------



## jamato8

Remember, you can configure for more power output with different opamps, such as the AD8397 and then bypass the buffers. This will give you more power and of course, a little bit different sound.


----------



## dazzer1975

Can someone explain how to work with the opamps and buffers please?

 For example, I have opened my d10 up and see that there are 3 replaceable chips in a kind of pyramid formation with presumably the buffer on top and the two op amps side by side?

 I have pulled out the two opamps the d10 comes fitted with and left the 1 single buffer in place and replaced the stock opamps with ad8656.

 However, I am reading about bypassing buffers and not bypassing buffers and wondered how to know which configuration to use i.e. without blowing up the d10?

 Any info, links, tips, advice and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 cheers


----------



## immtbiker

Any tutorials would be of great interest to me too.


----------



## jopagi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dublo7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jopagi, have you tried driving the K701 with the D10?

 I'd love to hear if anyone here has tried the DT880s/DT990s on the D10._

 

No, I haven't tried yet. I just did a quick listen when I got them, and now I'm just letting them burn in for a while. I'll give it a few more days, I think.


----------



## jamato8

The two side by side, are the buffers the single is the opamp. I have emailed iBasso in the past that they need to be clearer on the configurations and how to implement.

 Now I realize what I am hearing more of after so many hours of time on the D10. It has become even more open, transparent and I am hearing more out of head sound. There is more blackness between notes, instruments or singers.


----------



## dazzer1975

So if I want to swap out the original configuration for how the d10 is shipped and use the ad8656 I would simply remove the one op amp and put in one of the 2 ad8656 that are supplied?


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have emailed iBasso in the past that they need to be clearer on the configurations and how to implement.
_

 

well, some information at all regarding how to implement and configure when op amp rolling would be good from ibasso lol.


----------



## dazzer1975

ok, think I might have cracked it.

 the stock configuration features two buffers and one op amp.

 the kit supplied comes with 2 dummy buffers and 4 op amps.

 you only need 1 op amp in the ibasso d10 at any time.

 So, if I want top use an opamp that uses bypassed buffers, then I would use 1 of the ad8656 (for example) and use the 2 dummy buffers in the d10?

 to establish if an opamp requires buffers or not then it is a case of looking up the specs for the op amp in question?

 If it requires buffers then use the two the d10 is supplied with, if the op amp requires buffers bypassed then use the two dummy buffers?

 Would that be right?


----------



## jamato8

That is right. 

 Also, some IEM's require so little power you can try a lower power opamp with the buffers bypassed. The AD8656 has a good mA output so you can bypass the buffers or try the 8656 as a buffer. 

 There is some confusion on what a buffer does. Just because a chip is not called a buffer doesn't mean it can't be one. A buffer lowers the output impedance and normally will supply more current while not amplifying the sound. It makes it easier for the amp to effectively drive the load and the interaction between the output impedance and the load (the head phones in this case) will hopefully be were it should be.


----------



## dazzer1975

Jamato,

 thats a fantastic explanation.

 Thanks for taking the time to explain this, and help out a poor ignorant soul lol 

 makes it all clear now, cheers mate.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 There is some confusion on what a buffer does. Just because a chip is not called a buffer doesn't mean it can't be one. A buffer lowers the output impedance and normally will supply more current while not amplifying the sound._

 

Is there any way to determine if an opamp can work well as buffer, other than testing each opamp out?


----------



## jamato8

Normally you are going to want one, if you are going to use it as a buffer, to have enough current output to make it worth it. The 8656 puts out around 250mA's and there are others. HiFlight has delved deep into all the specs of many opamps. There is also the sound they produce. I only use a few now and with the D10 prefer the stock setup.


----------



## wuwhere

I'm still using the stock opamps/buffer combo with 60 hours of burn time. If the stocks are good enough for Jam then they are good enough for me too. Why mess with a good thing.


----------



## Luca T

Excuse me but:

 What is a op-amp and which is its purpose?

 What is a buffer and which is its purpose?

 Do some op-amp need a buffer(or two) and some other don't? 

 Thanks


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excuse me but:

 What is a op-amp and which is its purpose?

 What is a buffer and which is its purpose?

 Do some op-amp need a buffer(or two) and some other don't? 

 Thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The opamp (operational amplifier) is the chip that actually performs the amplification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opamp.
 About buffers, this is what jamato8 wrote at the top of this page

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, some IEM's require so little power you can try a lower power opamp with the buffers bypassed. The AD8656 has a good mA output so you can bypass the buffers or try the 8656 as a buffer. 

 There is some confusion on what a buffer does. Just because a chip is not called a buffer doesn't mean it can't be one. A buffer lowers the output impedance and normally will supply more current while not amplifying the sound. It makes it easier for the amp to effectively drive the load and the interaction between the output impedance and the load (the head phones in this case) will hopefully be were it should be._


----------



## nc8000

Passing the time waiting for the D10 to arrive re-ripping a good number of my best cd's with eac to flac and filling the H140 with this. Optical through the D1 some of these cd's sound better from the H-140 than they do from the D-EN920 and they deffinately sound better than my 320kb aac versions.

 I also found out that the Linn Records files that are advertised as 24/192 actually are "only" 24/96, at least according to foobar2000.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still using the stock opamps/buffer combo with 60 hours of burn time. If the stocks are good enough for Jam then they are good enough for me too. Why mess with a good thing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

1) As each individual hears things differently, personal preferences in sound may be a valid reason for changing opamps.

 2) Some combinations of source, amp, and load (phones) have 
 better synergy with some opamps, whereas other opamps may not perform in an optimal manner. 

 3) Some opamps just seem to favor certain musical genres more than others.

 4) Some of us just like to tinker, ever in search of that elusive "perfect" sound!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) As each individual hears things differently, personal preferences in sound may be a valid reason for changing opamps.

 2) Some combinations of source, amp, and load (phones) have 
 better synergy with some opamps, whereas other opamps may not perform in an optimal manner. 

 3) Some opamps just seem to favor certain musical genres more than others.

 4) Some of us just like to tinker, ever in search of that elusive "perfect" sound!_

 

Actually, I do intend roll opamps/buffer but not until maybe 500-600hrs of burn-in with the stock. That way I'm very familiar with the stock opamps' sound signature and be able to tell the difference among different opamps. So my reference will be the stock opamps.


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, now that the D10 has really opened up, more than I thought it would, trying some other opamps will be fun.


----------



## Luca T

Actually I don't understand well why an amp change with the burn-in, it's an electronic circuit with no mechanical part so how can it change and get better?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually I don't understand well why an amp change with the burn-in, it's an electronic circuit with no mechanical part so how can it change and get better?_

 

It may get better, sound the same or even get worse. Capacitors go through the stress of charging and discharging, resistors get stressed , same with the wires and PCB traces. Not mechanical but electrical and chemical stresses. These affect the overall sound in time.


----------



## jopagi

Do the opamps and buffers need any burn-in themselves? Or do the capacitors/resistors around them need some time to acclimate/synergize with each different opamp?

 My guess is no, but I've never tried any opamp rolling yet.


----------



## wuwhere

I was just listening to the same song on two different iHP-120 on the D10 through the same optical cable. A newer one (higher SN#) modded with an SDHC and an older one (lower SN#) with HD. The song is identical on both, 256kbps. The newer iHP-120 SDHC sounded clearer, had a darker background and more liquid while the older one has a grainier sound. The D10 has an amazing resolution.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jopagi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do the opamps and buffers need any burn-in themselves? Or do the capacitors/resistors around them need some time to acclimate/synergize with each different opamp?

 My guess is no, but I've never tried any opamp rolling yet._

 

Yes they also do because inside the opamps are also little capacitors, little resistors and little transistors.


----------



## jopagi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jopagi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My laptops's audio setup (SigmaTel High Definition Audio CODEC) generates test tones at various sample rates to see if the receiving digital player can support those rates. The tones come through fine at 96.0 KHz via S/PDIF Coax into the D10, but I don't hear anything at 192KHz._

 

Turns out the test was inconclusive. I couldn't hear the test tone through my Benchmark DAC-1 either. The laptop must not be sending a test tone properly, since the DAC-1 definitely supports that bit rate.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jopagi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Turns out the test was inconclusive. I couldn't hear the test tone through my Benchmark DAC-1 either. The laptop must not be sending a test tone properly, since the DAC-1 definitely supports that bit rate._

 

Check post #767 on this thread.


----------



## mrarroyo

Does this help?


----------



## wuwhere

^^^ Yup! I'm saving the image.


----------



## wolfen68

Wow, this thread has really rolled along over the last week...

 I was on a trip this week and had the opportunity to spend a lot of time with my D10 portably while using PK-1's and UE5c's. Both sound great, but I must say that the D10 has a special ability to improve the UE5c (custom version). 

 Over the last couple of years, the UE5c has become a "tool" when I needed isolation, but I will always reach for the PK-1's (or my RS-1's) first when listening. As my tastes have evolved, the UE5c's have too loose of bass, lower detail, and unpleasant in-head sound as compared to my other options. With the D10, they sound fantastic and really make a nice combo while on the move. Bass tightens up (not as much as PK-1, but still a nice improvement), better details and improved soundstaging. 

 The UE5c's never sounded this good with my MicroDAC...but the D10 is a little "cooler" than the MicroDAC and I believe this moderates the already warm UE's. As (IMO) the higher end shure IEM lineup has the same problem, I suspect these will also come alive with the D10. So far, HI GAIN has sounded best with all headphones I have tried (including IEM's).

 I did have a little fun today. While waiting for a flight at the Orlando airport, I wandered into the "headphone hut" or whatever it's called in the terminal. They were decently stocked with (overpriced) Shure and UE IEM's (among others), as well as mp3 players. The clerk saw me looking at the IEM rack and stated that they carried the "definitive best in portable sound that modern technology had to offer". (My nearby wife, sympathetic, said later that he probably gets away with that 99.999% of the time....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) 

 Looking for a sale, he asked if I had any headphones now, and if I wished to compare to a UE triple-fi. I had never heard the triple-fi's and said "sure". He asked if I had an ipod with me I wished to plug them into. I said "sure" again and pulled out my H140/D10 combo and plugged in the demo pair of UE's. Right away he's asking "what is that?" and "I've never seen that before!". I explained the concept to him while pulling out my UE5c's to compare to the triple-fi's and apparently he knew what those were...which resulted in him quickly moving on to the next more likely customer.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Has anyone tried the AD8656 with LMH6643 as buffers? What did you think?


----------



## jamato8

It sounds good but I haven't tried it for around 300 hours or more so I don't really know the sound. Should be interesting.

 I am using the dac to my Woo 6. Very nice with good detail and an articulate sound. What I call a "tuneful" sound. The amp section of the D10 does surprisingly well against the Woo 6.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

8656 LR and 6643 buffers sounds good with the HD600 and a little bright with the D2000. It sounded maybe a little more energetic than the AD708 as buffers, would have to swap back to be sure. Trying to decide if I want to try my LME49720 as buffers, or my remaining two AD8656 as buffers (since the 8656 I am using in LR was left over from my D1). I can't get the case closed with my two AD8397 as buffers because the SOIC adapters are slightly wider than the ones from iBasso and push the caps over to the side by 0.5mm or less, and then the case hits the caps when trying to close it (scratched the plastic wrapper around the caps).

 Haven't decided if I like the 8066 or 8656 better in LR either.

 OPA627 on a 2:1 fits, but had the white noise and crackling in the background so it is a bust.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was just listening to the same song on two different iHP-120 on the D10 through the same optical cable. A newer one (higher SN#) modded with an SDHC and an older one (lower SN#) with HD. The song is identical on both, 256kbps. The newer iHP-120 SDHC sounded clearer, had a darker background and more liquid while the older one has a grainier sound. The D10 has an amazing resolution._

 

I'll wait for XCSD


----------



## jopagi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check post #767 on this thread._

 

Yes thanks, that's what prompted me to try that little test. We know in theory 192KHz should be supported, but it hasn't yet been verified.


----------



## theory_87

Finally roll it today. As my blackgates is used for my old Xin Reference which the leg is shorten, I had a hard time trying to extend it since it does not fit into the red wima cap position.











 Will use a small uf value BG soon


----------



## Anouk

Hello everyone,
 ok so the ibasso only uses 1 opamp? so it isnt dual mono? also does it matter what you use as buffer? I know amps determine the power of an amp and the sound signature....
 Ibasso should really make available an opamp rolling faq.... Or let someone write one.
 I wonder if with some amps you can also roll the dac chip/upsampling chip (if they have any)? That would be ultimate flexibility.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just received a reply to my email and they say that my amp will ship Monday......_

 

Yihaaa, just got the tracking number email and it shiped YESTERDAY and is at the moment in Leipzig - Germany so with luck i might actually RECEIVE it tomorrow Monday


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello everyone,
 ok so the ibasso only uses 1 opamp? so it isnt dual mono? also does it matter what you use as buffer? I know amps determine the power of an amp and the sound signature....
 Ibasso should really make available an opamp rolling faq.... Or let someone write one.
 I wonder if with some amps you can also roll the dac chip/upsampling chip (if they have any)? That would be ultimate flexibility.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Sounds like a good one to me.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if with some amps you can also roll the dac chip/upsampling chip (if they have any)? That would be ultimate flexibility.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

In the D1 you could also roll a chip in the dac though I don't know what the purpose of that chip was


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll wait for XCSD_

 

Too bad SDHC's limit is 32GB. Is the XCSD spec approved yet? The first product would be a 64GB XCSD.


----------



## jamato8

A nice 128gb storage in the H120 would be a killer. A true 128gb's. And someday double that or a dual adapter of the 128gb with all lossless files though my H140 with the 120gb hard drive hold many, many songs in lossless.


----------



## wuwhere

For over 100GB of memory, we're pretty much stuck with HDDs. They are slow and noisy but cheaper compared to flash. With the D10, I was able to hear that background noise as compared to flash. So as DAC/AMP gets better, one should really go with flash memory.


----------



## vkvedam

Now with Larry's impressions out, seems like D10 is like a no brainer at the retail price among portable amplifiers as of now. An all-rounder and I am looking forward to get one ASAP.


----------



## dazzer1975

it is a no brainer, may be too noisy for your e500's though.

 Another thing, all uk head fiers shouldn't worry about buying one of these if ya know what I mean.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ...
 I wonder if with some amps you can also roll the dac chip/upsampling chip (if they have any)? That would be ultimate flexibility.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Hi Anouk, as you can see from the pic below the dac chip is soldered unto the board being a surfaced mounted component. So rolling "it" would not be possible.


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it is a no brainer, may be too noisy for your e500's though.

 Another thing, all uk head fiers shouldn't worry about buying one of these if ya know what I mean._

 

So what did you mean to say? Is it about the import tax?
 Hey by the way Larry said in his review that there is absolute zero hiss even with Shures. Are you sure about the noise?


----------



## mrarroyo

Deleted!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vkvedam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now with Larry's impressions out, seems like D10 is like a no brainer at the retail price among portable amplifiers as of now. An all-rounder and I am looking forward to get one ASAP._

 

I'm not the only respectable head-fier who has praised the D10. I would give them a good bit of credit too.


----------



## younglee200

For those of you who's listened to both before, how does the amp section of the D10 compare to the RSA P-51 Mustang??


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *younglee200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those of you who's listened to both before, how does the amp section of the D10 compare to the RSA P-51 Mustang??_

 

I'm curious to know that too. I might now consider selling the Predator for a P-51 if it is better. Gasp!


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm curious to know that too. I might now consider selling the Predator for a P-51 if it is better. Gasp!_

 

Is it because the D10 outperforms or matches the Predator?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vkvedam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it because the D10 outperforms or matches the Predator?_

 

Both, depending on the music or the headphones being used and the source. If Skylab says the P-51 is so much better than the Predator, I might have to now hear that for myself. I just don't like buying amps without a DAC since 60% of my listening is with my laptop, but for that I can use my D10 DAC to feed the P-51, since it's USB and optical DAC outperform the Predator DAC.

 I know I am probably canceling my order soon for the Xin Super Micro IV now that I have the flatter iBasso T4. I figure I could also just accept the SMIV and then sell it if it doesn't amaze me, but that money could be used for my HD800 or a P-51.

 PS: I have 23 hours on the D10 battery playing music via optical input and no power connected, and the D10 with AD8656 and bypassed buffers is still going strong...


----------



## TopQuark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vkvedam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it because the D10 outperforms or matches the Predator?_

 

Let me guess...

 Optical.


----------



## Gorthon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *younglee200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those of you who's listened to both before, how does the amp section of the D10 compare to the RSA P-51 Mustang??_

 

Not sure if I've missed it or forgotten portions of this thread, but I to would like to hear more about how the D10 DAC/Amp combination compairs with other amps.

*DAC --> Amp*
 D10 --> D10
 D10 --> SR-71
 D10 --> SR-71A
 D10 --> Hornet
 D10 --> Mustang
 D10 --> etc.


----------



## TopQuark

Excellent review. Just as you post it, I got the tracking number from iBasso!

 They might ran short of stock again for a while after this review


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Both, depending on the music or the headphones being used and the source. If Skylab says the P-51 is so much better than the Predator, I might have to now hear that for myself. I just don't like buying amps without a DAC since 60% of my listening is with my laptop, but for that I can use my D10 DAC to feed the P-51, since it's USB and optical DAC outperform the Predator DAC.

 I know I am probably canceling my order soon for the Xin Super Micro IV now that I have the flatter iBasso T4. I figure I could also just accept the SMIV and then sell it if it doesn't amaze me, but that money could be used for my HD800 or a P-51.

 PS: I have 23 hours on the D10 battery playing music via optical input and no power connected, and the D10 with AD8656 and bypassed buffers is still going strong..._

 

Cool! Got it and learnt something new as well. Thanks once again.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TopQuark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent review. Just as you post it, I got the tracking number from iBasso!

 They might ran short of stock again for a while after this review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Excuse me when did you order it?


----------



## wuwhere

OT: The only downside with using an SDHC is the slow transferring of files from your PC/laptop. Sometimes it even stops with an I/O error so you have to restart it again. On an HDD this does not happen because there is RAM buffer or cache in the HDD and also firmware that controls and manages the file transfer.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally roll it today. As my blackgates is used for my old Xin Reference which the leg is shorten, I had a hard time trying to extend it since it does not fit into the red wima cap position.











 Will use a small uf value BG soon_

 

I haven't really looked at the circuit. Which cap is this? I can see it is a supply cap but is it a bypass for the larger caps?


----------



## wuwhere

What is the purpose of that cap? Thanks.


----------



## khtse

I have been charging the D10 through USB for more than 24 hours already, but the charge light never goes off as the manual suggests. Anyone has the same issue with the D10?


----------



## wuwhere

Same here. I just unplug it after about 6 hours. The manual says that there is an overcharge protection circuit. But there is also a warning to turn it off to extend the battery's life.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *khtse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been charging the D10 through USB for more than 24 hours already, but the charge light never goes off as the manual suggests. Anyone has the same issue with the D10?_

 

I haven't used the usb charge feature...but the red light under the charge switch does turn off for me after about 6-7 hours when using the AC adapter.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gorthon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure if I've missed it or forgotten portions of this thread, but I to would like to hear more about how the D10 DAC/Amp combination compairs with other amps.

*DAC --> Amp*
 D10 --> D10
 D10 --> SR-71
 D10 --> SR-71A
 D10 --> Hornet
 D10 --> Mustang
 D10 --> etc._

 

No, I would not say the D10 is better than the Mustang, they both have very good qualities.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *khtse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been charging the D10 through USB for more than 24 hours already, but the charge light never goes off as the manual suggests. Anyone has the same issue with the D10?_

 

I believe that the voltage from some USB ports is insufficient to fully charge the D10 battery. Certainly some voltage is lost thru the connections, and also if any other devices are sharing USB ports. I doubt that there is a fault in the protection or charging circuitry of the D10, as it has been simplified from that of the D1. 

 My charge light stayed on for hours when charging via USB, but went off after a couple of additional hours from an external charger.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I would not say the D10 is better than the Mustang, they both have very good qualities._

 

Would you agree D10 is on the level of the Predator and Pico, which Skylab feels are just a little below the Mustang as well? I may be considering a Mustang now.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe that the voltage from some USB ports is insufficient to fully charge the D10 battery. Certainly some voltage is lost thru the connections, and also if any other devices are sharing USB ports. I doubt that there is a fault in the protection or charging circuitry of the D10, as it has been simplified from that of the D1. 

 My charge light stayed on for hours when charging via USB, but went off after a couple of additional hours from an external charger._

 

My D10 is now at 27 hours and still going strong on battery, and it was charged on the Macbook Pro USB port, and the charge light does go off when full.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you agree D10 is on the level of the Predator and Pico, which Skylab feels are just a little below the Mustang as well? I may be considering a Mustang now.



 My D10 is now at 27 hours and still going strong on battery, and it was charged on the Macbook Pro USB port._

 

At this point, yes. I am now trying some more configurations to see if I can get closer to the Mustang. I am using all AD8656 chips right now as I really like the 8656. But there is more than just the chips, there is also the grounding scheme and of course, implementation.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Too bad SDHC's limit is 32GB. Is the XCSD spec approved yet? The first product would be a 64GB XCSD._

 

Yes. It approved. But when the actual production will start is another matter. And a new card adapter would be needed. It expected that Sandisk will produce the 1st mp3 with XCSD slot.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe that the voltage from some USB ports is insufficient to fully charge the D10 battery. Certainly some voltage is lost thru the connections, and also if any other devices are sharing USB ports. I doubt that there is a fault in the protection or charging circuitry of the D10, as it has been simplified from that of the D1. 

 My charge light stayed on for hours when charging via USB, but went off after a couple of additional hours from an external charger._

 

I read that some protection system for lithium-battery (like on laptop), to preserve the battery from the overcharge, don't make it charge fully!
 Maybe it's similar!


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't really looked at the circuit. Which cap is this? I can see it is a supply cap but is it a bypass for the larger caps?_

 

it a decoupling capacitors, also known as bypass capacitors. My friend told me the value I used is too huge. I'll get a 0.47uf soon. IT BG HI-C NX. I'm planning to roll the other 4 caps there. I know the long caps is power reserve caps. But i have no idea what is the brown caps for. Space is tight there so caps size need to be precise.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

OFFICIAL BATTERY TIME: D10 ran *28 hours on battery*, with AD8656 opamp in LR and buffers bypassed and input via optical DAC. 

 Volume was normal and between 11-1 o'clock with HD600 for the first 20 hours, and then 11-12 o'clock with ATH-ESW10 for the remaining 8 hours. That exceeds the factory specs by 8 hours, and it ran 140% as long as expected when using the DAC (20 hours with DAC, 30 without).


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


 it a decoupling capacitors, also known as bypass capacitors. My friend told me the value I used is too huge. I'll get a 0.47uf soon. IT BG HI-C NX. I'm planning to roll the other 4 caps there. I know the long caps is power reserve caps. But i have no idea what is the brown caps for. Space is tight there so caps size need to be precise. 
 

Yes for a bypass cap you need to have a much smaller value since the purpose is to pass certain frequencies and these frequencies require bypass caps of the correct value. Often a 10X 100X etc is often used for this purpose. I normally use a .1 and a .01 to shunt the high frequencies to ground. Wima caps aren't all that bad and do pretty good as bypass caps. Sure there are better but it all depends upon application.


----------



## wuwhere

I guess that just voided your one year warranty.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes for a bypass cap you need to have a much smaller value since the purpose is to pass certain frequencies and these frequencies require bypass caps of the correct value. Often a 10X 100X etc is often used for this purpose. I normally use a .1 and a .01 to shunt the high frequencies to ground. Wima caps aren't all that bad and do pretty good as bypass caps. Sure there are better but it all depends upon application._

 

I guess i will just roll to 0.1 or 0.47 to try.


----------



## TopQuark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excuse me when did you order it?_

 

I ordered it last Wednesday, Feb 18. 4 day waiting time. Not bad. They must have started building them in stock.


----------



## jamato8

I am using the AD8656 as buffers and I like the results.

 At first they sounded a little too warm and they have been used but . . . I needed to give it time. I am liking the results very much.


----------



## dazzer1975

me too, I thought I dropped a ball after first finding out the two slots were for buffers (before I discovered an op amp could be used as a buffer) and was very much liking the sound over the stock configuration.

 Cleaned the noise issues up I was having too, although tbh, that has improved regardless what config I am trying so that must have been new out of the box syndrome for the first hour or so.

 Plus I am now using my esw 9 and the sound is quite lush with a velvety warmth. After having graham slee, ray samuels, justin's and iqube amps I am pretty impressed, although the optical connection is a natural pleaser.


----------



## ElEsido

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was just listening to the same song on two different iHP-120 on the D10 through the same optical cable. A newer one (higher SN#) modded with an SDHC and an older one (lower SN#) with HD. The song is identical on both, 256kbps. The newer iHP-120 SDHC sounded clearer, had a darker background and more liquid while the older one has a grainier sound. The D10 has an amazing resolution._

 

That truly surprises me. Shouldn't be the signal that is sent through the optical cable be identical since you bypass the internal dac and amp and only use the iriver as a storage and decoding device?


----------



## nc8000

And it has arrived

 Unboxing






 And together with D1





 There is no on/off switch, it turns on/off on the volume dial at minimum (with a click), so no leaving the volume at a set point.

 I also notice the exact same problem as I have with the D1 used as dac with my Vista laptop. The Vista master volume control and muting has absolutely no effect on the sound going to the unit however the in-application volume control of iTunes, foobar2000, WMP etc is respected.


----------



## Clok

Woah, enjoy!

 Did you have to pay any duties?


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Woah, enjoy!

 Did you have to pay any duties?_

 

No it slipped right through. iBasso declares the shipments as "Sample of usb sound card" and declares them at $15.


----------



## dazzer1975

OMG I never realised just how big the d1 was.


----------



## Packgrog

Well, it's looking like I'll be picking one of these up, provided I can sell off my Monica 3, Monica 2, RSA Tomahawk, and iBasso D1. Money has gotten really tight, and I just don't have time to fiddle with all of this different gear, so the D10 seems to be just what the doctor ordered (small enough to be used for lawn mowing, to replace my Tomahawk, and good enough sound and versatility to make me not be TOO upset about losing the rest of my gear). Wish me luck.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OMG I never realised just how big the d1 was._

 

Yes it was big and heavy, it weighs almost as much as the D10+H140


----------



## dazzer1975

I'd be interested in you comparisons between the d1 and the d10 as I reckon we have similiar tastes owing to your love of the ety er4 and esw9 albeit your er4's are pretty ultimate lol.

 I tend towards the more resolving accurate sound signature.


----------



## Jaw007

Congrats,very impressive package.
 How long of a wait before shipping?


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd be interested in you comparisons between the d1 and the d10 as I reckon we have similiar tastes owing to your love of the ety er4 and esw9 albeit your er4's are pretty ultimate lol.

 I tend towards the more resolving accurate sound signature._

 

Will do but that will be some weeks before that happens. My D1 has >500 hours on it with the hiflight chipset. Hiflight also estimated that I would be hard pushed to tell the difference and I could well beleive that. I mainly bought the D10 for the much smaller size and longer battery life, not so much because I expected it to be a lot better than the modified D1.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats,very impressive package.
 How long of a wait before shipping?_

 

I ordered Wedensday 18th February and got an email Friday saying that it would ship today. However it shipped already Saturday and got here today.

 And a few more pictures


----------



## theory_87

I roll the decoupling caps to 0.1uf BG










 My opamps arrived today unexpectedly. I ordered them in the morning and Farnell delivered in the evening.

 AD8397
 OPA2134
 AD8066
 2*BUF634

 As AD8397 and AD8066 comes in SOIC8 form, I have to solder them onto a DIP8 socket which is a pain in the ass to do.
 I tried all of them and like AD8397 with by-pass buffer the most. It provide me with the most aggressive sound and widest soundstage among all the opamps I have currently. Bass bass impact is also very enjoyable with me. I bought BUF634 to use as buffers. To my surprise, it doesn't work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 My current setup


----------



## HiFlight

The D10 requires dual-channel buffers. The BUF634 is a single-channel opamp. 
 It is much easier to solder SOIC opamps onto a Browndog adapter than onto a socket. The risk of damage to the opamp is less, as they fit the adapter perfectly. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I roll the decoupling caps to 0.1uf BG










 My opamps arrived today unexpectedly. I ordered them in the morning and Farnell delivered in the evening.

 AD8397
 OPA2134
 AD8066
 2*BUF634

 As AD8397 and AD8066 comes in SOIC8 form, I have to solder them onto a DIP8 socket which is a pain in the ass to do.
 I tried all of them and like AD8397 with by-pass buffer the most. It provide me with the most aggressive sound and widest soundstage among all the opamps I have currently. Bass bass impact is also very enjoyable with me. I bought BUF634 to use as buffers. To my surprise, it doesn't work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 My current setup



_


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D10 requires dual-channel buffers. The BUF634 is a single-channel opamp. 
 It is much easier to solder SOIC opamps onto a Browndog adapter than onto a socket. The risk of damage to the opamp is less, as they fit the adapter perfectly._

 

Oops... My bad. I thought there is 2 buffer in D10 therefore one buffer for each channel. It hard to get browndog adapter in Singapore. Ordering from US need a big quantity to justify the cost due to expensive shipping.

 It 1.20am here. But with the new config, I just can't stop listening


----------



## jingles_97

Another question regarding battery and charging:
 It seems that my unit ALWAYS draws power from the battery. When I connect it to the USB, with the charging circuit off, it is draining battery. And if the battery is drained, you have to flick the charging circuit on to make it work again. Granted that a lithium polymer battery is probably more consistant than a USB power output, but I still find the arrangement a little odd.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jingles_97* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another question regarding battery and charging:
 It seems that my unit ALWAYS draws power from the battery. When I connect it to the USB, with the charging circuit off, it is draining battery. And if the battery is drained, you have to flick the charging circuit on to make it work again. Granted that a lithium polymer battery is probably more consistant than a USB power output, but I still find the arrangement a little odd._

 

That is normal behavior for the D10 and was noted earlier in the thread. I agree it's a little odd, but it doesn't bother me as portable use is my main concern.


----------



## jamato8

I leave it on and plugged in when at home for the charging. I don't want to keep cycling the battery by doing full discharges. If a battery has 500 cycles, then a partial discharge does not count as a full cycle but 20 percent of a cycle or what ever the discharge was. But I still don't cycle it at all and leave the USB plugged in. I notice that the charging light goes out after some hours and then will come back on with a little bit of discharge from the battery. 

 One nice thing about this battery is that is is a plug in not a soldered in battery, meaning that there is no reason you can't easily replace it yourself.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will do but that will be some weeks before that happens. My D1 has >500 hours on it with the hiflight chipset. Hiflight also estimated that I would be hard pushed to tell the difference and I could well beleive that. I mainly bought the D10 for the much smaller size and longer battery life, not so much because I expected it to be a lot better than the modified D1.

 I ordered Wedensday 18th February and got an email Friday saying that it would ship today. However it shipped already Saturday and got here today.
_

 

The biggest difference in sound of the D1 with rolled opamps vs D10 is the quality of the DAC (again, after the D1 opamps are rolled). The D1 is difficult to find an opamp for the DAC that gives the right balance of tone, warmth and detail and I could never get it to match my Headroom Micro DAC, while the D10 does so out of the box. The D1 was always just a tad cool sounding out of the line out, and some warmer opamps still sounded a little cool, so I was having to use the headphone out which was warmer sounding. I was using AD743 or AD797 main, AD8397 or LMH6643 as buffers, and LT6234 or LTC6241 as DAC opamp.

 The second issue with the D1 DAC is that the USB DAC is not as good as the optical, and it basically was matched by a Meier Headsix with a $40 Headstage USB DAC cable. The D10 USB DAC is nearly as good as the optical, but just below the D10 optical (or the Pico via USB).

 The D1 with rolled opamps, while used via optical, and used as a headphone amp not a DAC only was quite good sounding, albeit too big for true portable.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One nice thing about this battery is that is is a plug in not a soldered in battery, meaning that there is no reason you can't easily replace it yourself._

 

I noticed that, it just requires someone who knows more (than me, I hasten to add) about battery's and battery specs to be able to find a suitable replacement... and then post a link on this thread for the community


----------



## clasam

Did anyone get a "clearance delay" message when they tracked their package online? The DHL rep wasn't able to give me any more details, other than it "should" be there tomorrow.


----------



## jamato8

I got one once. 

 I also think that at some point the value will have to be increased on the declaration, maybe. There are plenty of 15 and 20 dollar USB devices that can be bought in China so as a USB device it fits in.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got one once. 

 I also think that at some point the value will have to be increased on the declaration, maybe. There are plenty of 15 and 20 dollar USB devices that can be bought in China so as a USB device it fits in._

 

Did you have to do anything to resolve the issue? Or is this part of the typical process?


----------



## jamato8

It was just part of the process. I think it took just a little longer but not much.


----------



## TopQuark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D10 requires dual-channel buffers. The BUF634 is a single-channel opamp. 
 It is much easier to solder SOIC opamps onto a Browndog adapter than onto a socket. The risk of damage to the opamp is less, as they fit the adapter perfectly.






_

 

HiFlight,

 Where did you get the optical cable from? The right angle adapters are tall and provides room for the remote control. Very nice setup.


----------



## nc8000

It's theory_87's rig not hiflights, but good question though, I hadn't spotted those adaptors when I first saw the picture


----------



## Jaw007

I ordered Wedensday 18th February and got an email Friday saying that it would ship today. However it shipped already Saturday and got here today.

 [/quote]

 Thank you for the information.


----------



## Packgrog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TopQuark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HiFlight,

 Where did you get the optical cable from? The right angle adapters are tall and provides room for the remote control. Very nice setup._

 

Looks to me like a standard right-angle adapter with small TOSLINK-to-mini adapter. Hadn't thought about that, but a rather effective way around that little issue. Nice!


----------



## wuwhere

I believe theory_87 is using these adapters.






 You can buy them from Sys. Concept.

Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more: Adapter - MiniPlug to Toslink


----------



## wuwhere

I find the ER4S matches better than the ER4P with the D10.


----------



## jamato8

GAAAAAaaaaaahhhhh. :^)

 I should have gotten some of those adapters on my last order. Oh well, I will place another one. The extension would be nice. 

 On another "note", a pair of AD8656 in the as buffers and the stock opamp in the driver position, sounds very good.


----------



## wuwhere

With the D10, I wind up listening louder because its so clear and it can scale up fast like without end. I have to bring down the volume.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_GAAAAAaaaaaahhhhh. :^)

 I should have gotten some of those adapters on my last order. Oh well, I will place another one. The extension would be nice. 

 On another "note", a pair of AD8656 in the as buffers and the stock opamp in the driver position, sounds very good._

 

I was listening to it like that (ADA4841-2/AD8656 buffer) since last night and discussed it with HiFlight. Then tonight it started making static in the music, even with a full battery, yet last night with a low battery the it was the AD746/8656 that was doing that. 

 I just now replaced the 4841-2 in LR with an AD746 per his recommendation, leaving the 8656 buffers, and it now sounds great with some jazz trio right now on my ESW10JPN.

 He also recommends trying a THS4032 with bypassed buffers.

 I know the AD8656 with bypassed buffers is great as well. 

 Another nice one is the AD8066 in LR with the stock AD708 buffers, and AD8397/bypassed buffers.

 I cannot rank any of these yet, because they all behave differently with different headphones.


----------



## jamato8

Humm, I have been using it for a day or two but will keep an ear on it.


----------



## wuwhere

Just my opinion, I think the stock opamp/buffer are for higher impedance phones/IEMs? With ER4S, optically fed from iHP-120, hi-gain, I find the best volume setting at 3/4 +/- one dot. At this volume setting, it is very fast and dynamic.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Well, There is no hiss with the stock D10. But the D10 with the AD746 in LR and AD8656 in the buffers has a little bit hiss with my Westone ES3X when the volume is turned down - and it is noticeably more hiss than the Duet which is very mild and livable. While the slight hiss in the duet is fine the AD746 in the D10 is not fine, so I am rolling opamps in the D10 again now despite the great sound. If I was only using my ESW10 and D2000 and HD600 I would not be so fast to change then AD746/8656 combo.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just my opinion, I think the stock opamp/buffer are for higher impedance phones/IEMs? With ER4S, optically fed from iHP-120, hi-gain, I find the best volume setting at 3/4 +/- one dot. At this volume setting, it is very fast and dynamic._

 

Sorry, I meant just above 3/4, dot # 8 clockwise. I don't hear any hiss at all with stock opamp/buffer on either ER4P or S.


----------



## jamato8

I am getting some great sound with the stock opamp and 8656 buffers. Very dynamic and open.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Back to the ADA4841-2 that came stock, with the AD8656 buffers like I was using last night, and there is NO hiss at all with 124dB/mw ES3X IEM.

 Music sounds as good as I recalled, and no more crackling noise that started up out of nowhere.

 JAM - you posted while I was still typing - I am using that combo now, like I was since last night, and it is VERY good. Still have to try the AD8066 with the 8656 buffers.


----------



## wuwhere

My torture test is Nojima Plays Listz, Reference Recording, Sonata In B, a 30mins 30sec recording. A very dynamic recording, iHP-120, optical out to D10, ER4S, hi-gain, vol at 8. I'm impressed with its dynamic scale. Background is very dark, excellent transient on loud passages. No smearing at all. The D10 was like in cruise control.


----------



## jamato8

I am loving the stock opamp and AD8656 as buffers. I haven't even been turning on my Woo 6. I am using the Ultrasone Ed. 9's right now. Very solid.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am loving the stock opamp and AD8656 as buffers. I haven't even been turning on my Woo 6. I am using the Ultrasone Ed. 9's right now. Very solid._

 

I know just what you mean.


----------



## wuwhere

I could not even detect any congestion. But then again, I only listen to ER4S. I've listened to the Pico (amp only). When it gets congested, its soundstage narrows or collapses.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could not even detect any congestion. But then again, I only listen to ER4S. I've listened to the Pico (amp only). When it gets congested, its soundstage narrows or collapses._

 

The Pico does not use capacitors in the power supply but relies on the battery as the capacitor, which it is but I think good caps have a great benefit, and this "may" be what you are hearing. Just some speculation.

 With the combination I mention a few posts back allows me to hear into the music more than any other combination, so far. I can hear fade-outs to the last note that I did not realize was there and that is without turning up the volume. It is almost spooky, but pretty cool at the same time. VEry nice. Complex music drifts through like there is a huge conduit that just presents it as if there is no lack of reserve power though this little amp doesn't have that much power but the delivery deceives this fact.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Well, I've put the screws back into the D10 for the time being, and left the stock ADA4841-2 in the main amp and AD8656 in the buffers. Will keep listening to it this way for a few days.

 BTW, did you guys see my big review? iBasso D10 review

 PS: I'll open it up again when the LTC6241HV I bought from HiFlight arrives. I expect it will sound similar to the ADA4841-2


----------



## jamato8

I hope you don't mind, I read it the first day and posted a link to it on the first page of this thread. Great review and a good read.

 I am playing some heavy ToTo right now and this amp takes it in stride. There is a lot of heavy bass like in the band "Mountain". Remember them? They had one great album. ToTo has some heavy music and the live stuff is very, very dynamic with a lot of good drum and a bass guitar. Helps to vibrate the ear wax out. :^)0


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

HELP ME!

 It's 2:30AM and I've been listening to my Westone ES3X and iBasso D10 via Macbook for 5 hours now, and I can't stop listening to go to bed - I'm exhausted!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope you don't mind, I read it the first day and posted a link to it on the first page of this thread. Great review and a good read.

 I am playing some heavy ToTo right now and this amp takes it in stride. There is a lot of heavy bass like in the band "Mountain". Remember them? They had one great album. ToTo has some heavy music and the live stuff is very, very dynamic with a lot of good drum and a bass guitar. Helps to vibrate the ear wax out. :^)0_

 

You're listening to ToTo because their music was on the TV show "Chuck" tonight.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, this is offtopic but since the ibasso d10 and iriver h100 are the perfect combo I was wondering what cf adapter can you best use with the iriver to modify it to compact flash? Can you use the following one:
Launched : iFlash Ipod Compact Flash Adapter (mk II) » Tarkan Akdam’s BORED
 Thanks
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## iriverdude

Anouk, check out mistic forums.


----------



## arirug

Tried the D10 with Sennheiser HD600, -HD650 and markl-modded Denon AH-D2000, and to my opinion they all sound Very Good!


----------



## dazzer1975

it hisses like a bitch on stock configuration and se530's.

 Rolling opamps and changing to less sensitive iem's / headphones really cleans it up though.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe theory_87 is using these adapters.






 You can buy them from Sys. Concept.

Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more: Adapter - MiniPlug to Toslink_

 

You need the T2MA adapter instead.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was listening to it like that (ADA4841-2/AD8656 buffer) since last night and discussed it with HiFlight. Then tonight it started making static in the music, even with a full battery, yet last night with a low battery the it was the AD746/8656 that was doing that. 

 I just now replaced the 4841-2 in LR with an AD746 per his recommendation, leaving the 8656 buffers, and it now sounds great with some jazz trio right now on my ESW10JPN.

 He also recommends trying a THS4032 with bypassed buffers.

 I know the AD8656 with bypassed buffers is great as well. 

 Another nice one is the AD8066 in LR with the stock AD708 buffers, and AD8397/bypassed buffers.

 I cannot rank any of these yet, because they all behave differently with different headphones._

 

I tried AD8397 with 8656 buffer, it hiss like hell. AD8397 with bypassed buffers is my favorite combo now. AD8066 with bypassed or AD708 doesn't sound as open and as detail as AD8397 with bypassed buffers


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I leave it on and plugged in when at home for the charging. I don't want to keep cycling the battery by doing full discharges. If a battery has 500 cycles, then a partial discharge does not count as a full cycle but 20 percent of a cycle or what ever the discharge was. But I still don't cycle it at all and leave the USB plugged in. I notice that the charging light goes out after some hours and then will come back on with a little bit of discharge from the battery. 

 One nice thing about this battery is that is is a plug in not a soldered in battery, meaning that there is no reason you can't easily replace it yourself._

 

there is a circuit board on the battery (under the yellow tape area). I'm wondering if it 3.7v boost to 4.2v


----------



## jyle_t

hi all, i have a rather stupid question..

 for the D10, is there a difference between:
 - connecting from PC to usb input and 
 - from PC to optical input via usb-to-optical cable?


----------



## qusp

any gamma1 owners here?? just wondering how they compare?? i'm building a modified gamma1 cased in a larger case and with mundorf SIO output caps. was going to use a couple of VCAP OIMP I have lying around, but thought I would use something a bit warmer. yes warmer. because its an oil cap IMO that makes the lean that way rather than cool detail. although still very detailed. anyway I'm interested to here any comparisons, I will be using with iRiver H132-> lisaIII ->W3 w/UM56 and soon ES3X. so bsically I wouldnt be using the amp section that much, i'm interested in its dac.

 OH and I was going to power the gamma1 with this which will actually power 2 devices at once when needed. i'm used to carrying around a decnt chgunk for a portable rig and I actually expect this to be smaller than DIYMOD->teflon VCAP dock->lisaIII and there should be no doubt that it will sound at least as good, but my bet is it will better that rig fairly handily


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_there is a circuit board on the battery (under the yellow tape area). I'm wondering if it 3.7v boost to 4.2v_

 


 I think thats the battery's built in overcharge protection. A lot of batteries from China feature that.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jyle_t* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi all, i have a rather stupid question..

 for the D10, is there a difference between:
 - connecting from PC to usb input and 
 - from PC to optical input via usb-to-optical cable?_

 

This has been discussed a few pages before, the optical is cleaner because it is not affected by electrical defficiencies. They are actually beaming the signal bit perfect from point A to B


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think thats the battery's built in overcharge protection. A lot of batteries from China feature that._

 

I thought the overcharge protection is built on the board itself, no?


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the overcharge protection is built on the board itself, no?_

 

it might be, but i would be very surprised if that board built onto the end of the battery isn't a charging protection.

 Like I said, lots of rechargeablke batteries from China are built the same way with a bit of yellow paper wrapped over the charging protection board.


----------



## qusp

but if D10 wins over stock gamma1 I may have to give some thought to starting to collect portable dacs too


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, this is offtopic but since the ibasso d10 and iriver h100 are the perfect combo I was wondering what cf adapter can you best use with the iriver to modify it to compact flash? Can you use the following one:
Launched : iFlash Ipod Compact Flash Adapter (mk II) » Tarkan Akdam’s BORED
 Thanks
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

You need a 1.8 ide to CF card. That is a ribbon to a CF card which would require another adapter from the 1.8, so you would be using two adapters. I have seen the 1.8 ide to CF card adapters on ebay. Also, as mentioned, check out Mystic river:

iriver H1xx Series (H110, H115. H120, H140) - MisticRiver :: For iriver Enthusiasts


----------



## dazzer1975

DealExtreme: $4.73 CF to Toshiba 1.8-inch IDE Hard Drive Converter

 thats all you need, and of course a cf card too.

 However, if you want to try sd or sdhc or mmc cards then you need the cf adaptor above and this adaptor to go into the cf adaptor:

SDHC SD MMC to Compact Flash CF II Card Reader Adapter on eBay, also, Digital Camera Memory Cards, Photography (end time 01-Mar-09 04:55:39 GMT)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried AD8397 with 8656 buffer, it hiss like hell. AD8397 with bypassed buffers is my favorite combo now. AD8066 with bypassed or AD708 doesn't sound as open and as detail as AD8397 with bypassed buffers_

 

Agreed, AD8066/AD708 is different but I can't say better. And, not only does the AD8397 hiss with AD8656 buffers, so does the AD746 in main LR socket.

 However, I think the AD8656 in main LR with buffers bypassed is a little better/smoother than the AD8397 with buffers bypassed, which still isn't bad but not magical. For some reason the AD8656 in main without bypassing the buffers sounded a little bright (with AD708, AD8656 or LMH6643). I have an extra 8656 so I tried using all three and it was fine with HD600 and ESW10 but not what I was looking for. I did not like buffers with AD8397 either.

 The ADA4841-2 with AD8656 buffers in my D10 right now is silent from hiss with 124dB/mw Westone ES3X, and I believe this sounds better than when used with stock AD708 buffers. I was having some goosebump moments last night.

 My top three so far are, not necessarily in order of best:

 1) Stock main LR opamp and buffers (AD4841-2/AD708)
 2) Then swap out stock buffers only (AD4841-2/AD8656)
 3) Or move an 8656 to main LR opamp and bypass buffers (AD8656/bypass)


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_there is a circuit board on the battery (under the yellow tape area). I'm wondering if it 3.7v boost to 4.2v_

 

I believe that limits the amount of discharge..as overdischarge of lithium batteries is bad news.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DealExtreme: $4.73 CF to Toshiba 1.8-inch IDE Hard Drive Converter

 thats all you need, and of course a cf card too.

 However, if you want to try sd or sdhc or mmc cards then you need the cf adaptor above and this adaptor to go into the cf adaptor:

SDHC SD MMC to Compact Flash CF II Card Reader Adapter on eBay, also, Digital Camera Memory Cards, Photography (end time 01-Mar-09 04:55:39 GMT)_

 

so I should be able to just swap out my CF adapter in my DIYMOD 5.5G yeah??


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so I should be able to just swap out my CF adapter in my DIYMOD 5.5G yeah??_

 

into an h100?

 no, 1.8" 40 pin ide connector is required for the iriver, think its a zif connector for the ipod, deal extreme do both suitable cf adaptors though


----------



## jamato8

I still like my 120gb hard drive. It is very, very fast and with Rock box switching from one song or album is so fast I notice no interruption. Having said that, a solid drive would be nice.


----------



## dazzer1975

I agree re 120gb hdd, thats most definitely the best solution imo at the moment owing to prices of ssd, but in time hopefully ssd's will be cheap and large.

 for me though, im sticking with the 20gigs my h120 came with until it dies then ill do the necessary surgery... provided its only the hdd and battery that dies.


----------



## jamato8

I would like a 64gb CF in my 120. I ordered some 1.8 to CF adapters and will look for a good price on a 64gb CF card. Now a 128gb CF card would be sweet but to have a 120 with 64gb's is also nice.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like a 64gb CF in my 120. I ordered some 1.8 to CF adapters and will look for a good price on a 64gb CF card. Now a 128gb CF card would be sweet but to have a 120 with 64gb's is also nice._

 

me too, re have the parts in ready should they become hard to find in the future.

 ANd oh man 128 gigs sd would be awesome, we are starting to get into proper levels of storage there.

 I bought my h120 when iriver offloaded their brownbox stock, I am so kicking myself I didn't buy more than one... if only I had a crystal ball lol

 if I could find a 64gb sdhc or cf card for around 80 quid I would go for it now. 32 is very tempting but isn't worth it imo (with regards messing about installing it etc) and certainly not worth it for those folks who have a h140.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, last summer with the units going for 145 and now they are up over 200 again. I am glad I have a good stock. They will last me the rest of my life. . . . damn, that is depressing. . . . :^)

 On the opamps, the stock with the 8656 buffers is sounding so fiiiine. So fine. My D10 is buttoned up. I have noticed a change after a couple of days with the burn-in for the opamps. A fast delivery and great dynamic drive. Yep, this is good.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, last summer with the units going for 145 and now they are up over 200 again. I am glad I have a good stock. They will last me the rest of my life. . . . damn, that is depressing. . . . :^)

 On the opamps, the stock with the 8656 buffers is sounding so fiiiine. So fine. My D10 is buttoned up. I have noticed a change after a couple of days with the burn-in for the opamps. A fast delivery and great dynamic drive. Yep, this is good._

 

exactly, and the ones going for 200 dollars now are second hand too.

 I thought the 8656 as buffers (which I stumbled upon inadvertently lol erm oops) really cleaned up the signal and introduced some nice warmth and extra bass slam.

 Currently using 8656 with bypassed buffers, but might consider purchasing an 8656 and trying 8656 opamp with 8656 buffers.

 I have a couple of op amps coming but I feel the ad8656 has just what I am looking for at this moment in time.


----------



## wuwhere

From what I've read from Mistic River, only A-Data 32GB CF and Pretec 64GB CF cards have successfully worked in the iHP-120/140. Transcend 32GB CF did not work. I'm using a Transcend 16GB SDHC Class 6 right now. I'm waiting for my Qmemory 32GB SDHC Class 4, which are on a pre-order only basis ($87.95 from SD Memory Cards, Secure Digital , SanDisk SD).


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if I could find a 64gb sdhc or cf card for around 80 quid I would go for it now. 32 is very tempting but isn't worth it imo (with regards messing about installing it etc) and certainly not worth it for those folks who have a h140._

 

There will be no 64GB SDHC, the SDHC's spec limit is 32GB. However, SDXC, the new spec, can go up to the theoritical limit of 2TB. CF Type II spec's limit, I believe, is 128GB.


----------



## dazzer1975

I am not at this stage as mentioned but I think also rockbox has some discussion about why it is only those cards which seem to be working at the moment, fingers crossed pretec lower the cost of their cards soon lmao

 at the moment sdhc at 32 gig is too expensive for such a small storage increase (think I have seen 16gb sdhc at around the price of 32 cf may have been 32sdhc but I can't remember now as I wasn't in buying mode so didn't pay close attention) ... any news on prices for the sdxc cards?


----------



## jamato8

Yes, those same a lot of money. The converter from IDE to SD card? Well it should all fit with a 1.8 to CF to SD card. They make those SD card so inexpensive in comparison to CF cards. Why? Production cost due to higher demand?


----------



## jopagi

It's good to hear that opamp rolling may quiet things down.

 Using the stock setup, with 100 hours of burn in, I definitely hear some hiss on my e500s (119db), although it's not too bad on low gain. There's also a bit of occasional crackle in the left channel, but it's mostly (not completely) noticeable via USB.

 The pop upon turn-on was a painful unwelcome surprise. I now make sure to turn the D10 on before jacking in.


----------



## iriverdude

hmm that's annoying I would like the amp to mute outputs during powerup (relay?)


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jopagi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's good to hear that opamp rolling may quiet things down.

 Using the stock setup, with 100 hours of burn in, I definitely hear some hiss on my e500s (119db), although it's not too bad on low gain. There's also a bit of occasional crackle in the left channel, but it's mostly (not completely) noticeable via USB.

 The pop upon turn-on was a painful unwelcome surprise. I now make sure to turn the D10 on before jacking in._

 

if the se530 are anything like the e500 (and from what I understand they are identical) then they will pick up on the hiss more so than any of my other earphones/iem's

 op amp rolling definitely made a dramatic decrease in hiss even with my se530's. Although perhaps burn in helped too (no where near 100 hours on mine yet)

 I never tried my esw9's or er4p/s in stock config but again, these seem to be less problematic probably owing to the opamp and buffer rolling.

 fwiw, ive had/have pico, voyager, tomahawk, hornet m, go vibe v7, ibasso d10, cmoy, iqube, headroom micro amp portable module.

 the quietest was the pico with the iqube for all intents and purposes more or less as quiet.

 I can't deal with hiss generally speaking hence my frequent turn around with portable amps but i'd buy the pico again in a heartbeat.

 the d10 however, as said with regards op amp rolling and around 20 hours on it has improved from stock and fresh out of the box. It remains to be seen just how silent I can get it.

 any hiss really affects my listening pleasure, but most, even in the d10, can be overcome by burn in, increasing resistance re er4p using the p to s adaptor, increasing listening volume slightly etc.

 Trouble is, when you know its there, you look out for it.

 Don't get me wrong, I am probably making it sound worse than it is, the reason I have a high turnaround of portable amps is because those I CANT listen to I sell (except the pico owing to cash flow problems lol which I expect to replace in due time) and the ibasso d10 is going nowhere.


----------



## khtse

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There will be no 64GB SDHC, the SDHC's spec limit is 32GB. However, SDXC, the new spec, can go up to the theoritical limit of 2TB. CF Type II spec's limit, I believe, is 128GB._

 

I can't imagine having a 2TB flash memory based portable music player in my hand. I still remember my first mp3 player - Creative Labs Nomand II MG 64MB

Amazon.com: Creative Labs NOMAD II MG 64 MB MP3 Player Silver with Docking Station: Electronics

 That was 8 or 9 years ago. In 9 years, will we have a 2TB portable music player with the size of an iPhone? or even the size of an iPod Shuffle?


----------



## iriverdude

I think so, flash has progressed so much in just a few years.


----------



## immtbiker

My first one was a D-Link D-100 100MB HD player. It was $300 and when you erased music, some of the sectors stayed around and mixed in with newly added songs! It was a nightmare.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My first one was a D-Link D-100 100MB HD player. It was $300 and when you erased music, some of the sectors stayed around and mixed in with newly added songs! It was a nightmare._

 

LMAO sounds like fun


----------



## qusp

oops double post


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_into an h100?

 no, 1.8" 40 pin ide connector is required for the iriver, think its a zif connector for the ipod, deal extreme do both suitable cf adaptors though_

 

yeah thats why I asked the question in here, on the page you linked it had someone using it in an ipod, but have now noticed it was a 4G so I thought i'd get some clarification. doesnt matter, i'll need to get another CF card anyway as mine is transend. so I think i'll just wait for 64gb to become a bit more reasonable and just use my 120gb in there after some modification. first to see how it sounds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and yeah H120


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jopagi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Using the stock setup, with 100 hours of burn in, I definitely hear some hiss on my e500s (119db), although it's not too bad on low gain. There's also a bit of occasional crackle in the left channel, but it's mostly (not completely) noticeable via USB.

 The pop upon turn-on was a painful unwelcome surprise. I now make sure to turn the D10 on before jacking in._

 

I've had no hiss (or crackle) whatsoever with my UE5c's...which are very similar to the e500's....and I haven't even bothered with the low gain setting because it's so close to the output that high gain is anyways. 

 You're right about the turn-on pop.....it's painful on my IEM's as well.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, it is easiest just to have the phones unplugged, turn the D10 on and then plug them in.


----------



## Jaw007

Or you could leave your headphones plugged in and,turn the D10 on,and then put them in your ears.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

After blowing a few opamps in the D2 Viper by plugging in phones while it was turned on, I developed the habit of turning on the amp before plugging in the phones.


----------



## clasam

Hey guys, got mine today...ran into this problem:

 2 of the 8 screws are not recessed enough, so the hex tool can't adequately grip. In other words, the back faceplate won't come off! Any suggestions?


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, got mine today...ran into this problem:

 2 of the 8 screws are not recessed enough, so the hex tool can't adequately grip. In other words, the back faceplate won't come off! Any suggestions?_

 

Had that problem with one of mine, I was lucky in that undoing all the others allowed the tension to slacken off around the troublesome one just enough for the hex tool to grip sufficiently.

 you could try pliers gripping the outside edge of the screw... should be enough clearance to get a grip and then once undone replace with spare screws from the opamp rolling kit box.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Did you try the short end of the hex wrench instead of the long end?


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After blowing a few opamps in the D2 Viper by plugging in phones while it was turned on, I developed the habit of turning on the amp before plugging in the phones._

 

Sorry headphone addict, this is probably just me, but, it seems that your saying you blew op amps in the d2 when you plugged phones into the amp when it was already switched on.

 to combat this, you plug your phones into the amp when it is switched on?

 lol See what I mean.

 I also get the pop if phones are plugged in before I turn the amp on, and thus have started to turn the d10 on before I attach my phones, however, as per your post and past experience, which way prevented damage, plugging your phones in before you turned the amp on, or after turning the amp on?

 Cheers


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, got mine today...ran into this problem:

 2 of the 8 screws are not recessed enough, so the hex tool can't adequately grip. In other words, the back faceplate won't come off! Any suggestions?_

 

You only need to take off the front faceplate to get at the opamps. I wonder how they got the back screws in effectively? Well as mentioned pliers and then replace them with the ones in the opamp kit. 

 Again though, you only need to take off the front faceplate to have the board slide out but make sure you are grounded so you don't fry a chip on on the underside of the board if you accidently touch it and you have any static.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Also, be careful of the spring on the underside of the PCB if you remove the case completely - the spring grounds the PCB to the case, and you have to squish the spring to get the PCB back in the case if you take the board out completely. So, only slide the PCB out of the vase enough to expose the three opamp sockets and a tiny part of the battery.


----------



## immtbiker

I just realized that I ordered my Toslink cables and adapters from sys-concepts last week, and they were sent airmail the next morning and I haven't received them yet.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Mine took about a week despite airmail last time I ordered.


----------



## immtbiker

Cool...thanks. It *is* from Western Canada to Eastern U.S.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You only need to take off the front faceplate to get at the opamps. I wonder how they got the back screws in effectively? Well as mentioned pliers and then replace them with the ones in the opamp kit. 

 Again though, you only need to take off the front faceplate to have the board slide out but make sure you are grounded so you don't fry a chip on on the underside of the board if you accidently touch it and you have any static._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, be careful of the spring on the underside of the PCB if you remove the case completely - the spring grounds the PCB to the case, and you have to squish the spring to get the PCB back in the case if you take the board out completely. So, only slide the PCB out of the vase enough to expose the three opamp sockets and a tiny part of the battery._

 

Thanks guys, you're lifesavers!

 Where exactly would you recommend I grab with the pliers? I assume on the Black casing that houses the aux input/output or headphone out? If someone could provide a picture, I'd much appreciate it. I'm a little reluctant to grab/pull firmly...

 Jon


----------



## dazzer1975

you grab the screw with the pliers and turn, don't try forcing the faceplate off with brute force using the pliers.


----------



## jamato8

I would unscrew as I pulled with the pliers. If you just grab and pull you will mess up the threads in the case as they are aluminum and the screw is steel. You grab the screw head, if you can.


----------



## clasam

Thanks guys, I was able to get the board out of the case to replace opamps...

 Jon


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Still listening to the stock ADA4841-2 but with the AD8656 buffers. Even sounds good with my HD600 at the moment, listening to some Peter Kater.


----------



## jopagi

Are you doing a burn in each time you switch opamps? If so, how long?
 Thanks,
 Jonathan


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jopagi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you doing a burn in each time you switch opamps? If so, how long?
 Thanks,
 Jonathan_

 

No - If the amp is already burned in I run it maybe an hour after the opamp swap, to ensure everything is operating fine and the sound is stable.


----------



## PeterDLai

Is the charge light the red light at the bottom right or the orange light above the USB port?

 The wording in the "manual" makes it seem like it's the orange light, but the red light seems to make more sense (as it has turned off by itself before and if it ever is on, the charge switch is on, and when turning the charge switch off, it turns off). The orange light does not turn off unless I unplug the USB cable.


----------



## jopagi

Listening with my Hd650s this afternoon, I was intrigued to find that I kept turning down the volume. I started close to full volume at low gain, then worked down to 12 o'clock after 3 hours or so.

 While I still think this little thing is awesome, I guess my initial listening raised my expectations so high that I'm bound to be let down a bit. I'm still getting some aha moments and a whole lot of pleasure, but not necessarily on the songs that I had expected.

 Then again, there are a lot more configurations and combinations left to try, so a lot more potential for new honeymoons...


----------



## jamato8

The orange is the indicator for the USB the red for the charge.


----------



## npcraig

Okay.

 I ordered one, and I have the SE530s, I am a headphone amp newb. What should I do to help with the hiss? (I have an iPhone and MacBook pro as sources)


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *npcraig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay.

 I ordered one, and I have the SE530s, I am a headphone amp newb. What should I do to help with the hiss? (I have an iPhone and MacBook pro as sources)_

 

I don't get any hiss with my UM2's with stock opamps or the AD8656 used as buffers.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just realized that I ordered my Toslink cables and adapters from sys-concepts last week, and they were sent airmail the next morning and I haven't received them yet._

 

I have had them arrive in 4 days and sometimes a week. It mainly depends upon if they get held up on the border crossing.


----------



## npcraig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't get any hiss with my UM2's with stock opamps or the AD8656 used as buffers._

 

Okay cool, I've read things about hiss being really bad, to having no hiss, so I got to just hope for the best plan for the worst


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *npcraig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay.

 I ordered one, and I have the SE530s, I am a headphone amp newb. What should I do to help with the hiss? (I have an iPhone and MacBook pro as sources)_

 

use the 8656 op amps that come with the d10 as buffers with stock opamp and that will make a reduction, a few hours on it as compared to being straight out of the box, and some other op amp configurations can all help. I found changing opamps and buffers along with earphones helped the most.

 Infact, the reason I initially changed what I thought was the op amp was as a result of not being able to live with the hiss from stock configuration as I had planned to keep it that way to get used to the stock sound.

 There is two people in this thread, including me, maybe others I haven't noticed so we aren't making it up, one with se530 and one with e500 (same phone) I am using the iriver h120 optical out into the d10, I don't know what set up the other guy was using.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *khtse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't imagine having a 2TB flash memory based portable music player in my hand. I still remember my first mp3 player - Creative Labs Nomand II MG 64MB

Amazon.com: Creative Labs NOMAD II MG 64 MB MP3 Player Silver with Docking Station: Electronics

 That was 8 or 9 years ago. In 9 years, will we have a 2TB portable music player with the size of an iPhone? or even the size of an iPod Shuffle?_

 

No, not just for audio application. More memory is needed for HD quality video recording, playback and storage. In fact, most of the users of these memories are the video and photo enthusiasts. Its amazing that just a few years back, SD (4GB limit) was extended to SDHC (32GB limit) and just last month, the SDXC spec was approved.


----------



## npcraig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_use the 8656 op amps that come with the d10 as buffers with stock opamp and that will make a reduction, a few hours on it as compared to being straight out of the box, and some other op amp configurations can all help. I found changing opamps and buffers along with earphones helped the most._

 

Okay... want to explain that again like you were telling it to a 10 year old?


----------



## dazzer1975

the amp has three sockets that you are able to insert op amps into to change the sound and power output etc.

 There are three sockets in a triangle/pyramid configuration.

 The top socket is for the op amp, the bottom two is for the buffers.

 The amp comes supplied with an op amp rolling kit which features 4 op amps and 2 bypassed buffers. It is apprent which are the bypass buffers when you get the package and take a look.

 Anyway, the amp's stock configuration isn't the best, as seems to be the general consensus, so you can open the amp up with supplied tools and take out either the op amp, the buffers, or all 3 and swap things around a bit to try and change/improve the sound to your personal liking.

 What I found reduced the hiss was to remove the two buffers and in their place, put in the ad8656 op amps. I am currently running the ad8656 as the op amp with the two bypass buffers and thats an improvement also.

 When yours arrive, the first thing you should do is just listen to it and see how it feels for you. If you are happy, then everything is sorted, if not or if you just fancy tinkering or want to try and find a different sound then start rolling those op amps and see where you end up.

 go back a few pages and check out the pics of the innards, also mr arryo included a pic highlighting the op amp and buffer positions.

 It's always harder trying to understand something without having it there in front of you.


----------



## wuwhere

Be careful touching the board. You can easily zap the components with ESD. If possible, always hold the board by the edges. Or get an ESD wrist strap that you can plug to the ground of your AC receptacle, just in case.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I have never had hiss with the D10, except with the AD746 opamp that I got for my D1 a year and a half ago and tried in the D10 a couple of days ago...


----------



## npcraig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the amp has three sockets that you are able to insert op amps into to change the sound and power output etc.

 There are three sockets in a triangle/pyramid configuration.

 The top socket is for the op amp, the bottom two is for the buffers.

 The amp comes supplied with an op amp rolling kit which features 4 op amps and 2 bypassed buffers. It is apprent which are the bypass buffers when you get the package and take a look.

 Anyway, the amp's stock configuration isn't the best, as seems to be the general consensus, so you can open the amp up with supplied tools and take out either the op amp, the buffers, or all 3 and swap things around a bit to try and change/improve the sound to your personal liking.

 What I found reduced the hiss was to remove the two buffers and in their place, put in the ad8656 op amps. I am currently running the ad8656 as the op amp with the two bypass buffers and thats an improvement also.

 When yours arrive, the first thing you should do is just listen to it and see how it feels for you. If you are happy, then everything is sorted, if not or if you just fancy tinkering or want to try and find a different sound then start rolling those op amps and see where you end up.

 go back a few pages and check out the pics of the innards, also mr arryo included a pic highlighting the op amp and buffer positions.

 It's always harder trying to understand something without having it there in front of you._

 

Okay cool thanks it makes sense now, gah I'm so excited (first amp) I just can't wait until it gets here!


----------



## Jaw007

I think I will forget getting another iBasso product for a while.
 I was going to get a D10,but I don't like the idea of having to go through all the trouble of taking the amp apart,and diddling with the innards.I like a amp that is properly produced.


----------



## Dublo7

Eh? Who said you have to take it apart and fiddle with it?


----------



## clasam

Hey all, 

 I was playing around with other Opamps...I tried at LT1634 and it worked well, but when I switched to the LTC6241HV, I only get mono audio...
 I kinda "jiggle"/shift the opamp with the case open and I'm able to get stereo, but when I take my finger off the opamp, it goes back to mono...The pins look perfectly straight when I put the 6241 on a hard surface...any thoughts on what I should do about this situation? 

 The Opamps might have been damaged in the mail, as two other ones had bent rods...any suggestions?

 Jon


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I will forget getting another iBasso product for a while.
 I was going to get a D10,but I don't like the idea of having to go through all the trouble of taking the amp apart,and diddling with the innards.I like a amp that is properly produced._

 

Now you are being silly - 95% of the results in my review were with the stock opamps, and only for the last day or so was I opening it up and "diddling" with the innards, just to find it can be even better than the great product it already is...

 Or, when you order it request they send it with the AD8656 already in the buffers and the AD708 in the "spare parts case"...


----------



## wuwhere

You don't have to. I'm using the stock opamp/buffer. They sound great as is. I think rolling opamps/buffers is like changing the tips of your IEMs. Or adjusting the bass port on the IE8 or SA6. Flexibility.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all, 

 I was playing around with other Opamps...I tried at LT1634 and it worked well, but when I switched to the LTC6241HV, I only get mono audio...
 I kinda "jiggle"/shift the opamp with the case open and I'm able to get stereo, but when I take my finger off the opamp, it goes back to mono...The pins look perfectly straight when I put the 6241 on a hard surface...any thoughts on what I should do about this situation? 

 The Opamps might have been damaged in the mail, as two other ones had bent rods...any suggestions?

 Jon_

 

Could be a cold solder joint of the SOIC opamp onto the adapter. Sometimes the solder joint can break if you push the center of the opamp when putting it into the socket (been there done that with an LM6172 for my D2 Viper once, HiFlight had to redo the solder for me after I broke it).


----------



## wuwhere

Check each socket's leg for continuity.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I will forget getting another iBasso product for a while.
 I was going to get a D10,but I don't like the idea of having to go through all the trouble of taking the amp apart,and diddling with the innards.I like a amp that is properly produced._

 

this amp is properly produced, as for op amp rolling, that's an added feature, not a chore.


 While I think this amp has garnered a bit of FOTM syndrome, (which product on head fi doesn't?) I felt it pertinent to relay my experiences of the sound, while again, placing it in the context of explaining its an amp I wont be parting with despite my hatred of noise.

 You need to take all the comments made within a wider context.

 For anything to be meaningful, we need to share the good and the bad, otherwise its just a load of people blowing smoke up each others asses about the stuff we buy.


----------



## jopagi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I will forget getting another iBasso product for a while.
 I was going to get a D10,but I don't like the idea of having to go through all the trouble of taking the amp apart,and diddling with the innards.I like a amp that is properly produced._

 

Do what you like, but as one of the people who mentioned a bit of hiss, I certainly wouldn't consider it that big a deal. The Shure e500/se530 are really sensitive, and practically everyone else isn't hearing any hiss at all.

 In the event that you do have e500s, and you hear hiss, and it bothers you, then there are some simple steps to address it.

 I consider the D10 a quality product.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I will forget getting another iBasso product for a while.
 I was going to get a D10,but I don't like the idea of having to go through all the trouble of taking the amp apart,and diddling with the innards.I like a amp that is properly produced._

 

Wait a minute. To say that being able to roll opamps connotes an improperly produced amp is saying that all the tube amps out there that come with stock tubes are not properly produced because people roll tubes to get often better sound and the other amps produced by many other manufactures that use opamps and allow for rolling them are also improperly produced. 

 Rolling opamps if you so choose, is a benefit but nothing says you have to roll anything. The stock opamp and buffers is fine but having choices makes it interesting, just like driving a different car or owning more than one pair of headphones or having more than one CD.


----------



## jopagi

I interpreted his comment as a reaction to some of the comments about hiss, not about the ability/desire to roll opamps in general.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jopagi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I interpreted his comment as a reaction to some of the comments about hiss, not about the ability/desire to roll opamps in general._

 

me too, hence I pointed out all comments need to be taken in a wider context.

 While I think it is only us two who have had issues with hiss while both using the e500/se530, I think it has been made more than apparent within those same posts that overall we are happy and pleased with the amp.

 Does feel kinda strange though feeling like I have to defend saying something that doesn't praise in the highest every single aspect of a product I've bought.


----------



## jamato8

No one has to defend this or any product and if there is something not working correctly then state it. I have said that the charging system is confusing and I have written to iBasso about this. I also think there should be clear instructions on how to opamp roll and where each one goes, if a person chooses to do so and I have emailed iBasso about this also.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No one has to defend this or any product and if there is something not working correctly then state it. I have said that the charging system is confusing and I have written to iBasso about this. I also think there should be clear instructions on how to opamp roll and where each one goes, if a person chooses to do so and I have emailed iBasso about this also._

 

I am with you 100% on the op amp rolling instructions. I have also emailed them about that tbh, not so much an issue now for me personally as I seem to have it all figured out, but for future customers who find themselves in the position I did it would be mighty useful.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No one has to defend this or any product and if there is something not working correctly then state it. I have said that the charging system is confusing and I have written to iBasso about this. I also think there should be clear instructions on how to opamp roll and where each one goes, if a person chooses to do so and I have emailed iBasso about this also._

 

Perhaps they can add an ESD strap as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You can easily zap the opamp with your fingers.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe that limits the amount of discharge..as overdischarge of lithium batteries is bad news._

 

Guess we'll need ibasso to confirm on this part.


----------



## jamato8

I was happy they included the opamps and a nice allen wrench.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not at this stage as mentioned but I think also rockbox has some discussion about why it is only those cards which seem to be working at the moment, fingers crossed pretec lower the cost of their cards soon lmao

 at the moment sdhc at 32 gig is too expensive for such a small storage increase (think I have seen 16gb sdhc at around the price of 32 cf may have been 32sdhc but I can't remember now as I wasn't in buying mode so didn't pay close attention) ... any news on prices for the sdxc cards?_

 

I found a SDHC for about S$139. A good price imo. But i'm still waiting for the price to drop even more and 32GB is not really an upgrade to my H140 imo


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had no hiss (or crackle) whatsoever with my UE5c's...which are very similar to the e500's....and I haven't even bothered with the low gain setting because it's so close to the output that high gain is anyways. 

 You're right about the turn-on pop.....it's painful on my IEM's as well._

 

Ouch... How i wish i can reduce the pop... and when you just turn the amp on, you will notice turning the knob will induce static sound. After a while as the cap is filled with current, the static sound is gone.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After blowing a few opamps in the D2 Viper by plugging in phones while it was turned on, I developed the habit of turning on the amp before plugging in the phones._

 

I have blow mylarone with Xtra X1 amp will plugging it in and unplugging it while the amp is still on


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElEsido* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That truly surprises me. Shouldn't be the signal that is sent through the optical cable be identical since you bypass the internal dac and amp and only use the iriver as a storage and decoding device?_

 

I guess its like driving a brand new luxury Lexus car. They're very quiet when new but eventually the engine's mechanical noise will crept inside the car as it ages. It does not happen with an electrical car.


----------



## jopagi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch... How i wish i can reduce the pop... and when you just turn the amp on, you will notice turning the knob will induce static sound. After a while as the cap is filled with current, the static sound is gone._

 

Yes, I've noticed that turn-on static as well. 

 I also notice that the background hiss is loudest at around 4 o'clock on the dial (i.e. the 10th circle). After that point it starts getting quieter again.


----------



## immtbiker

I knew if I mentioned that I never received my cables, they would come the next day.

 It worked! 

 I definitely prefer the mini to toslink without covers (much smaller footprint).






 .


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While I think this amp has garnered a bit of FOTM syndrome, (which product on head fi doesn't?).... _

 


 I suppose the D10's amp could become FOTM. However, the D10 itself as a portable DAC with optical capabilities can't technically be FOTM....since it is the only flavor available.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I definitely prefer the mini to toslink without covers (much smaller footprint).







 ._

 

Did you request white ends on those? I've never seen anything but black before.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch... How i wish i can reduce the pop... and when you just turn the amp on, you will notice turning the knob will induce static sound. After a while as the cap is filled with current, the static sound is gone._

 

This is better than the D1. When turning it on there is a fairly loud POP so I never have the phone on when turning on the amp.


----------



## prone2phone

how amp section compares to lisa?


----------



## jamato8

I have the Lisa III fired up and will do some comparisons.

 I can use the dac of the D10 to compare amp to amp and will use my special hyper pure dead soft silver/teflon air dielectric IC for this.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I knew if I mentioned that I never received my cables, they would come the next day.

 It worked! 

 I definitely prefer the mini to toslink without covers (much smaller footprint).






 ._

 

Have just ordered one like the white one to use instead of the longer one with blue shells that I use with my pcdp. I'm gonna go like yours without the right angle adaptors as I prefer the cleaner line and less bulk.


----------



## jamato8

D10 vs Lisa III with a bit of the Woo 6 mentioned. 

 1st impression of the D10 with the stock opamp and AD8656 buffers compared to the Lisa III is that the D10 is a little more distant and airy sounding. I noticed this also when comparing the Lisa III to the Woo 6, as the 6 was more airy and a little more distant. The Lisa is very, very smooth and more intimate. The Lisa III isn't in your face but closer. It has a good top end with a treble extension that is natural but it doesn't have quite the "live" sound of the Woo 6 or the D10 when live recordings are played. The bass of the Lisa III is a little more pronounced when compared to the D10. Not pronounced in a bad way, just more obvious. It is well controlled on both the D10 and Lisa III with the bass of the Lisa III being a little warmer or fuller. 

 The mids of the Lisa III seem a little richer, maybe a little more forward than the D10. With the D10 having a slightly recessed mid in comparison to the Lisa III, this would add to the impression of a more open or distant presentation. Which one is right? I am not sure but the Woo 6 also presents a little more distant image and the Woo 6 with all of my modification is, IMHO, excellent and the best I have for an amp. The Lisa III is very fine sounding so it is really up to the individual as to what is preferred. Both the D10 and the Lisa III are doing a very fine job. The Lisa III is nice and powerful and drives all my phones with ease. 

 On bass, the Lisa III has more authority. There is more impact. On ToTo live, Africa has real impact with the Lisa III. With the D10 it is good and enjoyable, just not as much overall drive to the deep bass. The upper bass on the Lisa III does not bleed into the lower mids, which is nice, so the amp remains fast sounding. The D10 does not bleed into other frequencies either so again, it remains fast sounding. 

 Overall, there are some areas of the D10 I prefer to the Lisa III. The D10 has more transient speed, which adds more snap to the music. Notes linger as long but the rise in micro dynamics and leading edge just seems faster and with a touch more cleanness. Transient speed on the D10 is exceptional. 



 I like the optical with the white heat shrink and no metal ends. Very clean. We are lucky to have found a place that will make up these custom optical cables and doesn't charge more for doing this (Joseph emailed me that it is much harder to make these very short cables). I don't know of any other service like this. I ordered some extenders to see how they will work with my setup so I can use the remote on my H140 or 120.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Had that problem with one of mine, I was lucky in that undoing all the others allowed the tension to slacken off around the troublesome one just enough for the hex tool to grip sufficiently.

 you could try pliers gripping the outside edge of the screw... should be enough clearance to get a grip and then once undone replace with spare screws from the opamp rolling kit box._

 

Unfortunately, the two screws that remain in place don't allow for a good grip...

 I guess it doesn't really matter since all I need is the front plate open to roll opamps.

 If I did want to open the back plate, I suppose I would take out the guts and unscrew the plates from inside with pliers.

 Thanks for the idea though...

 Jon


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe that limits the amount of discharge..as overdischarge of lithium batteries is bad news._

 

This is from a website called "Battery University":

 A lithium-ion battery provides 300-500 discharge/charge cycles. The battery prefers a partial rather than a full discharge. Frequent full discharges should be avoided when possible. Instead, charge the battery more often or use a larger battery. There is no concern of memory when applying unscheduled charges.

 Although lithium-ion is memory-free in terms of performance deterioration, batteries with fuel gauges exhibit what engineers refer to as "digital memory". Here is the reason: Short discharges with subsequent recharges do not provide the periodic calibration needed to synchronize the fuel gauge with the battery's state-of-charge. A deliberate full discharge and recharge every 30 charges corrects this problem. Letting the battery run down to the cut-off point in the equipment will do this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate.


----------



## Jaw007

When the battery runs out just buy another replacement.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, I am glad this time it is a plug vs a soldered joint. I had ask them about this some time back. This makes it very user friendly.


----------



## Jaw007

It would be nice if the amp could use a 9volt rechargeable battery though.
 But what the heck it is only money.LOL


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suppose the D10's amp could become FOTM. However, the D10 itself as a portable DAC with optical capabilities can't technically be FOTM....since it is the only flavor available.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

lol good point


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like the optical with the white heat shrink and no metal ends. Very clean. We are lucky to have found a place that will make up these custom optical cables and doesn't charge more for doing this (Joseph emailed me that it is much harder to make these very short cables). I don't know of any other service like this. I ordered some extenders to see how they will work with my setup so I can use the remote on my H140 or 120._

 

Yes SysConcept are amazing. I send a question and Joseph replied within 5 minutes. I then placed the order and less than 4 hours later I get an email saying that the cable has shipped.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you request white ends on those? I've never seen anything but black before._

 

No, I thought that it was going to look like the ends on the tos-2-tos cable and I just lucked out.

 Joseph said he had some ideas to make it as short as possible (I added 4mm because of the iRiver case and footers), and I told him to do as he wished.


----------



## clasam

I'm glad this thing is made out of metal...just took about a two foot fall onto hardwood floor...

 On a different note...I can put a plug in for the TLE2082...pretty wide soundstage, very good balance with fairly punch bass...

 And as a bonus, it has pretty insane battery life: it draws 1.6 mA of quiescent current, only 0.4 mA more than the default 4841-2, but puts out 80 mA of current, meaning you can go without buffers for most phones!


----------



## immtbiker

Mine hit the carpet last night from off my night table in the wee hours of the a.m.

 Luckily, my tethered iRiver broke it's fall


----------



## Luca T

It's finally arrived!

 Very fast shipping from ibasso, with the DHL they even skip the normal italian post so it was perfect!

 It's been charging for more than 6 hours (it was written 6 hour on the instruction) but the orange light is still turn on!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I connected it with the AC adapter!

 What is the small red led under the charge?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's finally arrived!

 Very fast shipping from ibasso, with the DHL they even skip the normal italian post so it was perfect!

 It's been charging for more than 6 hours (it was written 6 hour on the instruction) but the orange light is still turn on!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I connected it with the AC adapter!

 What is the small red led under the charge?_

 

Orange indicates USB power is connected, Red indicates it is charging. I'm finding if you charge on the computer while listening that the red stays on, but you can charge from the wall and the red will go out after a while.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's finally arrived!

 Very fast shipping from ibasso, with the DHL they even skip the normal italian post so it was perfect!

 It's been charging for more than 6 hours (it was written 6 hour on the instruction) but the orange light is still turn on!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I connected it with the AC adapter!

 What is the small red led under the charge?_

 

The red LED is the charger indicator. The orange LED is to indicate that the USB is connected. Turn off then on the red LED. If it does not turn back on, it is completely charged.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The red LED is the charger indicator. The orange LED is to indicate that the USB is connected. Turn off then on the red LED. If it does not turn back on, it is completely charged._

 

Cool, my red light is off now.


----------



## Luca T

I have a problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, the sound it's totally strange, the voice is lower than music and all is mixed badly!

 I tried to connect the Cowon S9 to the AUX in and headphone to the HP-out!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, the sound it's totally strange, the voice is lower than music and all is mixed badly!

 I tried to connect the Cowon S9 to the AUX in and headphone to the HP-out!_

 

One of your cables isn't inserted fully.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One of your cables isn't inserted fully._

 

I thought it was a cable problem so I changed and it seems ok!
 It's not problem of insert, the cable in the box is probably broken and doesn't work properly!


----------



## Luca T

It's my first Amp, how much should I put the volume on the dap?

 Should I put maximum on the dap and then manage the amp volume or maybe half?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought it was a cable problem so I changed and it seems ok!
 It's not problem of insert, the cable in the box is probably broken and doesn't work properly!_

 

The mini cable that comes with it is crap. Get a better cable.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's my first Amp, how much should I put the volume on the dap?

 Should I put maximum on the dap and then manage the amp volume or maybe half?_

 

DAp at about 80%, then control volume with the amp. If you have a line out that's usually always better.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The mini cable that comes with it is crap. Get a better cable._

 

I saw it was crap
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but just to try it was the shorter I have, I have to buy a better one!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DAp at about 80%, then control volume with the amp. If you have a line out that's usually always better._

 

Thanks! 

 Unfortunately the S9 has just the Hp-out!

 Immediately as first impression it doesn't seem improve the SQ!


----------



## jamato8

Well if you are amping from the headphone out, you are amping the internal amp from your source and if it isn't very good you aren't going to get any real improvement. You need a line out or a something that can put out to the USB, coax or optical.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well if you are amping from the headphone out, you are amping the internal amp from your source and if it isn't very good you aren't going to get any real improvement. You need a line out or a something that can put out to the USB, coax or optical._

 

Yes I knew but I just tried, even I think the S9 inside amp is not bad like the usual inner amps, then I will connect with the optical out of PC!


----------



## jamato8

If you have an optical out and songs on the hard drive, you got music.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I saw it was crap
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but just to try it was the shorter I have, I have to buy a better one!



 Thanks! 

 Unfortunately the S9 has just the Hp-out!

 Immediately as first impression it doesn't seem improve the SQ!_

 

The times where an amp tends to improve the headphone out's sound quality is (1) if the impedance of the headphones don't work well with the DAP and cause bass roll off or loss of soundstage, where an amp could help that - or (2) if the headphones need more power or current than the DAP can supply.

 A line out can help you avoid amplifying the already amplified and possibly distorter sound from the DAP headphone out.

 Your next step is to acquire a DAP with line out.


----------



## Luca T

I can hear some hiss with Dap!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope it will go away with burn-in!


----------



## tracyrick

I need some quick help guys. I sent my D1 back to iBasso to have the headphone input jack repaired. At the same time they've agreed to reduce the gain for me. The gain is too high for my Shure SE530'S...the volume knob at the lowest setting is almost too high, to the point of having channel imbalance as I try to keep it bearable at the lowest setting. Of course with my ER-4S's it's fine.

 iBasso just told me that the D1 is set to +10db gain. They want to know what db to set it at?

 So I saw that the D10 has a +3 or +10db switch. If I choose +3db, is it going to still be high enough on my D1 to drive heavy duty headphones well? At least my ER-4S, but if I sell my D1, will +3db be too low for someone else? I don't have headphones that really "require" an amp, so I don't know how to answer this...Should I go somewhere in between, like +5 or +6db to future proof it? I don't want to have to send it back to China again...


----------



## jamato8

It is most likely his from the source since you are coming out of the headphone amp section. Try the optical link to the computer.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The times where an amp tends to improve the headphone out's sound quality is (1) if the impedance of the headphones don't work well with the DAP and cause bass roll off or loss of soundstage, where an amp could help that - or (2) if the headphones need more power or current than the DAP can supply.

 A line out can help you avoid amplifying the already amplified and possibly distorter sound from the DAP headphone out.

 Your next step is to acquire a DAP with line out._

 

Understood, I think the S9 is enough for the IE8, now I will try with PC!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is most likely his from the source since you are coming out of the headphone amp section. Try the optical link to the computer._

 

Yes, I'm trying just now!


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tracyrick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need some quick help guys. I sent my D1 back to iBasso to have the headphone input jack repaired. At the same time they've agreed to reduce the gain for me. The gain is too high for my Shure SE530'S...the volume knob at the lowest setting is almost too high, to the point of having channel imbalance as I try to keep it bearable at the lowest setting. Of course with my ER-4S's it's fine.

 iBasso just told me that the D1 is set to +10db gain. They want to know what db to set it at?

 So I saw that the D10 has a +3 or +10db switch. If I choose +3db, is it going to still be high enough on my D1 to drive heavy duty headphones well? At least my ER-4S, but if I sell my D1, will +3db be too low for someone else? I don't have headphones that really "require" an amp, so I don't know how to answer this...Should I go somewhere in between, like +5 or +6db to future proof it? I don't want to have to send it back to China again..._

 

Well I always found the D1 to have more than enough volume so maybe a 6 would do for most all phones.


----------



## Luca T

After some test I think the D10 is useless with the Cowon S9 (just Hp-out), I doesn't feel any improvement and it introduces hiss, I could try with 32/40 of S9 volume (80%) and untill the maximum of the D10 I could normally stand it!

 From Computer optical-out I don't know exactly how to describe but it seems make the sound wider and improve bass quality (if it's possible do it), then nothing more at present but I have to test more!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After some test I think the D10 is useless with the Cowon S9 (just Hp-out), I doesn't feel any improvement and it introduces hiss, I could try with 32/40 of S9 volume (80%) and untill the maximum of the D10 I could normally stand it!_

 

Some people have reported hiss with the stock opamps and less by changing the AD708 buffers to AD8656. I didn't really hear hiss with either, but I did with an AD746 opamp I had laying around. The point is, maybe try different opamps even though it is likely to be your source hiss that is being amplified.


----------



## immtbiker

That's not really what the D10 is intended for. There are plenty of other amps with no options that would probably work better.

 Either way, using an amplified headphone out into an external amp, is usually a crap shoot. This amp is mainly for use with digital and optical DAC options, with the possibility of using another amp, not the other way around.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After some test I think the D10 is useless with the Cowon S9 (just Hp-out), I doesn't feel any improvement and it introduces hiss, I could try with 32/40 of S9 volume (80%) and untill the maximum of the D10 I could normally stand it!

 From Computer optical-out I don't know exactly how to describe but it seems make the sound wider and improve bass quality (if it's possible do it), then nothing more at present but I have to test more!_

 

Don't forget as the amp burns-in it sounds better, even though it was nice out of the box. Mine went from tying with a 700+ hour D3 to beating them all in the course of about 450 hours.


----------



## dazzer1975

to luca,

 If you could get yourself an iriver h100 series or portable cd player with optical out off ebay, then do it.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't forget as the amp burns-in it sounds better, even though it was nice out of the box. Mine went from tying with a 700+ hour D3 to beating them all in the course of about 450 hours._

 

Understood, I will make it burn-in for a while then I'll see anyway I'll do more tomorrow, it's 5a.m. here so it's better to stop for now!


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_to luca,

 If you could get yourself an iriver h100 series or portable cd player with optical out off ebay, then do it._

 

Nope, I can't
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, as Dap I have just an S9, an average Samsung (I think K3) and an old crap Creative Zen Nano!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I have a D-303 with optical out that I would consider selling, with two batteries and a 9v charger. But it (like many vintage D-303) needs to have the left side tipped up to not have the music skip some on the first few tracks. For me I just lay it on it's right side to it fits into a slot in my nightstand, so I can't use it laying flat anyways. I have 4 other optical PCDP to use, and those 4 all share a different battery from this, and have wired remotes, so I'm keeping the others.

 Jam collects iRivers and I collect PCDP with optical. The D-303 has a great sounding headphone out, so I have been reluctant to sell it just because of that. The D-EJ2000 sucks compared to that.


----------



## HiFlight

My D10 and P3 do a pretty good job with all my phones at low gain, so for your IEMs, a gain of 3 would probably be good. 
 If you decide to sell, I am sure you can find someone who is also interested in a low-gain D1. 
 I think that with a gain of 6, you would be unlikely to be able to hear much difference between that and the stock gain of 10. (JMHO)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tracyrick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need some quick help guys. I sent my D1 back to iBasso to have the headphone input jack repaired. At the same time they've agreed to reduce the gain for me. The gain is too high for my Shure SE530'S...the volume knob at the lowest setting is almost too high, to the point of having channel imbalance as I try to keep it bearable at the lowest setting. Of course with my ER-4S's it's fine.

 iBasso just told me that the D1 is set to +10db gain. They want to know what db to set it at?

 So I saw that the D10 has a +3 or +10db switch. If I choose +3db, is it going to still be high enough on my D1 to drive heavy duty headphones well? At least my ER-4S, but if I sell my D1, will +3db be too low for someone else? I don't have headphones that really "require" an amp, so I don't know how to answer this...Should I go somewhere in between, like +5 or +6db to future proof it? I don't want to have to send it back to China again..._


----------



## wuwhere

As far as burning in, last night with about 163 hours, it was sounding thinny, grainy, collapsed soundstage, no bass, just really unbearable to listen to. Now with about 190 hours, its smooth again with almost everything back except the solid bass I first heard out of the box. This really surprised me as I have never had an audio equipment change this much in sound.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as burning in, last night with about 163 hours, it was sounding thinny, grainy, collapsed soundstage, no bass, just really unbearable to listen to. Now with about 190 hours, its smooth again with almost everything back except the solid bass I first heard out of the box. This really surprised me as I have never had an audio equipment change this much in sound._

 

My Meier Corda3Move did the same thing after about 150 hours,then about 165 hours it sounds very good again.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

My D2 Viper and D10 did something similar in terms of better then worse then better again.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope, I can't
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, as Dap I have just an S9, an average Samsung (I think K3) and an old crap Creative Zen Nano!_

 

In that case if you wont improve yoursource I think you have waisted your money buying the D10, you would probably have been better of with a Fiio


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In that case if you wont improve yoursource I think you have waisted your money buying the D10, you would probably have been better of with a Fiio_

 

I would have to agree absolutely. The D10 has to be fed with the best portable source and through the optical input to really hear its best. I believe it competes with the very best portable rig paired with an iRiver iHP-120/140 optically.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would have to agree absolutely. The D10 has to be fed with the best portable source and through the optical input to really hear its best. I believe it competes with the very best portable rig paired with an iRiver iHP-120/140 optically._

 

What optical source would you use if you needed it to be portable, i.e. move it between PCs during the day? I am having a bugger of a time finding one.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In that case if you wont improve yoursource I think you have waisted your money buying the D10, you would probably have been better of with a Fiio_

 

He said he can use it on his computer, so it is not a waste.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What optical source would you use if you needed it to be portable, i.e. move it between PCs during the day? I am having a bugger of a time finding one._

 

iRiver iHP-120/140. Both have optical out that bypasses their internal DAC and feeds the digital signal to the D10's DAC.


----------



## jamato8

Yes the H120 or H140 is a great way to go. Sadly they aren't being made any long and haven't been for some time but on ebay they do show up. 

 The D10 goes up and down in sound quality, as you guys are finding out. It can really bite for a while but then comes back and gets better and better. Now that I really like the stock opamp and AD8656 as buffers I am going to go back to the stock configuration again to see how I like it. I always liked the way it came stock and iBasso, having tried many opamps, prefers the way it comes.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

HiFlight should be reporting on a new opamp combo he likes the most soon.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes the H120 or H140 is a great way to go. Sadly they aren't being made any long and haven't been for some time but on ebay they do show up. _

 


 indeed, I just bought one myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 completed the paypal no more than 15 minutes ago. paid more than I wanted to, but considering it was 1) guaranteed to work or i'd get a full refund, and 2) silver, i just couldnt resist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now it's time to order a D10!!!


----------



## jamato8

I have one silver. Be careful with the finish, it doesn't seem to hold up as well as the black but it is less common. Remember never accidently plug something besides the 5 volt charger into the iRiver. If you fry the circuit you can not get it fixed. iRiver no longer repairs them and many have tried to figure out the circuit with little success as it appears the main chip also gets fried. 

 The battery is easy to replace and so is the hard drive, if you need to. There are nice videos on doing this.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He said he can use it on his computer, so it is not a waste._

 

Missed that part


----------



## woof37

Folks, I just plugged my D10 into a USB port on a PC to start charging it. Both orange and red lights are on, as they should from what I can tell. Can I listen to it while it charges on the initial charge?


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Folks, I just plugged my D10 into a USB port on a PC to start charging it. Both orange and red lights are on, as they should from what I can tell. Can I listen to it while it charges on the initial charge?_

 

I tried to listen meanwhile it was charging, using it as amp connected with the dap but when I touch the dap I heard a strong increasing of hiss like if it needed the ground so i immediately stopped!


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried to listen meanwhile it was charging, using it as amp connected with the dap but when I touch the dap I heard a strong increasing of hiss like if it needed the ground so i immediately stopped!_

 

You sure you don't have DAP problems? I've read a few of your posts on the subject in other threads...it sure seems like you're having problems with that combo that other people are not. Maybe you do have a grounding problem...


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Folks, I just plugged my D10 into a USB port on a PC to start charging it. Both orange and red lights are on, as they should from what I can tell. Can I listen to it while it charges on the initial charge?_

 

Yes, you can listen at any time.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, you can listen at any time._

 

Is it kinda harsh out of the box? Realizing it's first-listen time on a new amp, it's a little harsh and lacking low end resolution.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it kinda harsh out of the box? Realizing it's first-listen time on a new amp, it's a little harsh and lacking low end resolution._

 

Mine out of the box was not harsh at all. And its bass was solid on my ER4S on hi-gain.


----------



## jamato8

Mine was great out of the box and then went through a normal up and down burn in process.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it kinda harsh out of the box? Realizing it's first-listen time on a new amp, it's a little harsh and lacking low end resolution._

 

Whoa, what a difference a few hours makes. I'm digging Joshua Redman again.


----------



## theory_87

not as bad as Xin reference change...


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_not as bad as Xin reference change..._

 

Meaning?


----------



## jamato8

I have been playing the music a little below normal volume on the D10 for a few days. No reason, just had it there. Today I turned the volume up some and what a major difference. It opened up a lot. I did some comparison with a few other amps at the same volume and could tell the difference as the D10 was just better. The D10 is maintaining the openness without closing in and has that air and space, that I value. Great fun.


----------



## immtbiker

When you guys talk about colors (black and silver) is your silver more like a champagne?

 I have 2 units that are both champagne in color. Very elegant. Such a waste to keep hidden under the OEM case.


----------



## jamato8

I guess the silver is more of a champagne. It is my lack of refinement that sways me to to say silver rather than "champagne". I used to drink wine and 7up together as a kid, and got drunk on Ripple when in dry dock in San Pedro while in the Navy due to boredom. What do I know of this champagne stuff? :^)


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Meaning?_

 

Xin Reference sound changes during burn in is more erratic... I'm experiencing the sound stage collapsing on D10 now. Not sure is it due to the BG i have just install


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Xin Reference sound changes during burn in is more erratic... I'm experiencing the sound stage collapsing on D10 now. Not sure is it due to the BG i have just install_

 

This is what I'm experiencing too with the D10. I'm just over 200 hours.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Folks, I just plugged my D10 into a USB port on a PC to start charging it. Both orange and red lights are on, as they should from what I can tell. Can I listen to it while it charges on the initial charge?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried to listen meanwhile it was charging, using it as amp connected with the dap but when I touch the dap I heard a strong increasing of hiss like if it needed the ground so i immediately stopped!_

 

I have had no change in sound charging while listening or when listening while touching it. 95% of my listening has been with the amp running 24/7 and with the charge switch flipped on, and a small portion has been to run the battery down for a test.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it kinda harsh out of the box? Realizing it's first-listen time on a new amp, it's a little harsh and lacking low end resolution._

 

I reported in my review that early in the burn-in, via optical DAC is was not as smooth as the Pico and Predator, with a sound signature and detail that were more like the D3 (although the D3 was smooth). That all got better with time.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I reported in my review that early in the burn-in, via optical DAC is was not as smooth as the Pico and Predator, with a sound signature and detail that were more like the D3 (although the D3 was smooth). That all got better with time._

 

Ah, so you guys aren't using the coax; you're using the optical input.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, so you guys aren't using the coax; you're using the optical input._

 

I don't have anything portable that has coax out except a portable Akai DVD, but the kids use it so I don't have it as a portable source most of the time.


----------



## rabor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, so you guys aren't using the coax; you're using the optical input._

 

I've been testing all inputs except for the normal line in, and I have to say I like coax best.. so far, it hasn't reached 100 hrs yet. Coax seems to give a slightly more 'tuby', warmer & wider feel as optical from this 1 source - a digital TV/Radio receiver/HD recorder (UPC Mediabox HDTV).

 Would be nice to have some sort of portable (prefab) source with coax & optical, same size as the D10 max..


----------



## jamato8

You can convert to any optical to coax but you have to know how to wire it. It isn't hard but on portable stuff I don't want to have the extra connection to worry about.


----------



## wuwhere

You can buy an optical to coax converters.


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have had no change in sound charging while listening or when listening while touching it. 95% of my listening has been with the amp running 24/7 and with the charge switch flipped on, and a small portion has been to run the battery down for a test._

 

I meant I could hear a strong hiss by touching the dap like if I became the ground when the d10 was charging, taking off the usb cable from d10 everything was normal!


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess the silver is more of a champagne. It is my lack of refinement that sways me to to say silver rather than "champagne". I used to drink wine and 7up together as a kid, and got drunk on Ripple when in dry dock in San Pedro while in the Navy due to boredom. What do I know of this champagne stuff? :^)_

 


 In "defense" of immtbiker, champagne was the official name for that color and it was used for units sold in Europe (and maybe other places). All the retail units in the US were black.

 I own both colors, but it doesn't matter to me as they all look the same wearing an iskin....


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In "defense" of immtbiker, champagne was the official name for that color and it was used for units sold in Europe (and maybe other places). All the retail units in the US were black.

 I own both colors, but it doesn't matter to me as they all look the same wearing an iskin...._

 

Color of what?


----------



## immtbiker

Post #1135


----------



## jamato8

Oh he doesn't need to be defended. I feel much better now that I identify mine as champagne rather than silver. I feel like I have taken a step up in the hierarchy or scheme of things. 

 Also, I was joking but then I have been accused of having a rather dry sense of humor to a questionable one. :6)


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I meant I could hear a strong hiss by touching the dap like if I became the ground when the d10 was charging, taking off the usb cable from d10 everything was normal!_

 

I dont get hiss but low level hum. This is clearly a grounding issue as my electrical installation is not grounded. I had a similar problem in my main rig when going single ended but that was solved by using an IsoTek power unit


----------



## immtbiker

Yeah John!

 Get off my case, toilet face. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I'll see you in court


----------



## Luca T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont get hiss but low level hum. This is clearly a grounding issue as my electrical installation is not grounded. I had a similar problem in my main rig when going single ended but that was solved by using *an IsoTek power unit*_

 

Yes, sorry I mistook with english, it was a hum/rustle like an electrical one!

 What is IsoteK unit?


----------



## jamato8

Oh he doesn't need to be defended. I feel much better now that I identify mine as champagne rather than silver. I feel like I have taken a step up in the hierarchy or scheme of things. 

 Also, I was joking but then I have been accused of having a rather dry sense of humor to a questionable one. :6)

 Strange, this posted twice. I must be nervous. I hate court dates.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can buy an optical to coax converters._

 

Wouldn't that compromise the signal somehow?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wouldn't that compromise the signal somehow?_

 

It could add jitter. I don't think I would want to go through a converter back into an optical that again is changed to an electrical signal.


----------



## EFN

emmm I hate to rain on the parade...but since this seems to be a regular gathering place for H120/140 owners...I thought I'd share this:












 Yeah, those are "iModded" H140. They sound so good I may actually abandon my PCM1793 DAC......and pours mud into my plan to acquire a D10.


----------



## jamato8

How does it look when put back together? I don't think anyone's parade is rained on but I can understand your excitement.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does it look when put back together?_

 

Emmm they looked normal without any hint of strain to the joints. But they DO sound different


----------



## wuwhere

That is some serious mod.


----------



## jamato8

I guess you are using a 40gb or 60gb hard drive? There wouldn't be enough room to do this and use a 120gb hard drive. You could also use some 47uf Black Gate 6.3 HiQ nonpolar, which are the best of this type I have used and they are small.


----------



## immtbiker

Wow! 
 That could epitomize the expression that "good things come in small packages".


----------



## EFN

*Jama:*
 I am using the iPod Photo 1.8" IDE 60GB.





 The caps used the roomy space between the jacks so I don't see how they can intercede with the HDD. In this instance I used bigger gauge wires (0.6mm pure silver). But if you use anything below 0.3 insulated wires space should be aplenty. In fact I noticed the H140 also have some more space for caps at the bottom.

 Yes I have used BGs very extensively before. And also I have circulated from the gigantic Mundorf ZN series to V-Caps and now going small caps again. After testing Nichicon MUSE and Elnas, I have found that the Elna SILMIC/Cerafine to be in a class of their own. Hands down "better" than any BGs I have used before


*immtbiker:*
 Yep, miracles do come in tiny packages


----------



## jamato8

With the 120gb hard drive, which is a zif, you have to use an adapter so the area where the caps are is where the end of the hard drive ends up.

 So these are the decoupling caps for the output that you replaced?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the 120gb hard drive, which is a zif, you have to use an adapter so the area where the caps are is where the end of the hard drive ends up.

 So these are the decoupling caps for the output that you replaced?_

 

My zif to ide adapters (bought 2 for a spare) should be here any day now, and then I'll start looking for the 120gb HD. Where did you buy yours and how much did it cost?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My zif to ide adapters (bought 2 for a spare) should be here any day now, and then I'll start looking for the 120gb HD. Where did you buy yours and how much did it cost?_

 

I got mine on ebay. I paid around 150 plus shipping, I think. I will look at my account. I have two 140's with the 120gb drives and one with the 40gb.

 Edit: No I paid 133 and here is the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=380093477334

 Here is the current price and availability: http://cgi.ebay.com/Toshiba-120GB-MK...d=p4634.c0.m14

 I have purchased twice from this company with good results. 

 BTW, after this many hours I am still hearing good changes. I am surprised as I didn't think the D10 would have a long burn-in process and yes, I am comparing to other amps so it isn't my "head" doing the changes.


----------



## clasam

Hey guys...now that we've all had a chance to play with opamps, I wanted to know:

 Which opamps do you consider the most balanced/neutral?

 Which opamps do you consider to be most detailed/revealing?

 I've noticed that the D10 smoothes over mid-range detail a bit more than I'd like, at least with the 8656 + bypass, 4841-2 + 708s, TLE 2082 + bypass & LT1364 + 708s


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_emmm I hate to rain on the parade...but since this seems to be a regular gathering place for H120/140 owners...I thought I'd share this:








 Yeah, those are "iModded" H140. They sound so good I may actually abandon my PCM1793 DAC......and pours mud into my plan to acquire a D10.




_

 

Dude...did your DAP eat a triple cheeseburger or something?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys...now that we've all had a chance to play with opamps, I wanted to know:

 Which opamps do you consider the most balanced/neutral?

 Which opamps do you consider to be most detailed/revealing?

 I've noticed that the D10 smoothes over mid-range detail a bit more than I'd like, at least with the 8656 + bypass, 4841-2 + 708s, TLE 2082 + bypass & LT1364 + 708s_

 

The D10 picks up on detail but requires burn-in time. How many hours do you have on your D10? 

 I am using the stock opamp and the 8656 as buffers. The stock configuration is also very good, in my opinion.


----------



## Luca T

Guys which is the difference between the Iriver H120 and H320?

 Why does someone say that they use memory card inside it? Can we use both with it or is it modded?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys which is the difference between the Iriver H120 and H320?

 Why does someone say that they use memory card inside it? Can we use both with it or is it modded?_

 

Only the iHP-120/140 and HP-120 have optical out.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine on ebay. I paid around 150 plus shipping, I think. I will look at my account. I have two 140's with the 120gb drives and one with the 40gb.

 Edit: No I paid 133 and here is the link: Toshiba 120GB 4200rpm PATA/ZIF 8MB Notebook Hard Drive - eBay (item 380093477334 end time Dec-31-08 13:36:06 PST)

 Here is the current price and availability: Toshiba 120GB MK1214GAH /HDD1901 1.8"inch Laptop HD,NEW - eBay (item 380106516423 end time Mar-05-09 23:33:31 PST)

 I have purchased twice from this company with good results. 

 BTW, after this many hours I am still hearing good changes. I am surprised as I didn't think the D10 would have a long burn-in process and yes, I am comparing to other amps so it isn't my "head" doing the changes._

 

Are those dual platters, 8mm thick? The iHP-120, I believe, can only accommodate single platters, 5mm thick.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys...now that we've all had a chance to play with opamps, I wanted to know:

 Which opamps do you consider the most balanced/neutral?

 Which opamps do you consider to be most detailed/revealing?

 I've noticed that the D10 smoothes over mid-range detail a bit more than I'd like, at least with the 8656 + bypass, 4841-2 + 708s, TLE 2082 + bypass & LT1364 + 708s_

 

Stock is probably the most balanced and neutral so far.

 AD8066 was very detailed for me with better mids and treble, better in that regard than the 8656, but not quite as warm sounding. I need to play with that one some more (bought for my D1 a long time ago).

 The AD746 was also very detailed, but I got some hiss with my IEM.

 HiFlight says the AD8599 in the D10 is the best, and rivals or beats his iQube. I forget what opamps for buffers he recommended with that. I have one on the way.

 PS: I have the AD8599 in my modded Stax SR-001 and it kicks butt.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stock is probably the most balanced and neutral so far.

 AD8066 was very detailed for me with better mids and treble, better in that regard than the 8656, but not quite as warm sounding. I need to play with that one some more (bought for my D1 a long time ago).

 The AD746 was also very detailed, but I got some hiss with my IEM.

 HiFlight says the AD8599 in the D10 is the best, and rivals or beats his iQube. I forget what opamps for buffers he recommended with that. I have one on the way._

 

I'd like to try that configuration, AD8599 opamp with the buffers. Where do you order them from?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to try that configuration, AD8599 opamp with the buffers. Where do you order them from?_

 

PM "HiFlight"


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PM "HiFlight"_

 

Will do, thanks.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are those dual platters, 8mm thick? The iHP-120, I believe, can only accommodate single platters, 5mm thick._

 

They are dual platter and work in the H140. Someday a zif 120 for the H120 or a 128gb CF card with adapter for the H120.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luca T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys which is the difference between the Iriver H120 and H320?

 Why does someone say that they use memory card inside it? Can we use both with it or is it modded?_

 

H320 does not have optical out and yes it is a mod whereby the harddisk is replaced by an adaptor and a memorycard to get faster disk access and longer battery life. Seems only 32GB has been tried but I suppose 64GB might be possible


----------



## jamato8

The 64gb has been used also. Just waiting for the price to come down.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are dual platter and work in the H140. Someday a zif 120 for the H120 or a 128gb CF card with adapter for the H120._

 

A reasonably priced 128GB CF is probably a year or so away.

 I bought a 32GB SDHC Class 4 Qmemory at a pre-order price of $75. They just shipped it yesterday. Now it is at $99.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_H320 does not have optical out and yes it is a mod whereby the harddisk is replaced by an adaptor and a memorycard to get faster disk access and longer battery life. Seems only 32GB has been tried but I suppose 64GB might be possible_

 

The 64GB Pretec CF card has been tried and worked. But it is a $399 mod.


----------



## jamato8

I didn't think I had any AD8599 in my stock but I do. I will have to solder it up and give it a try in a few days. 

 Yes the 64gb cards are still too expensive. I think the SD cards will be the way to go. They are much cheaper with a new specification SD card that has an upward storage of 2tb's. Now that is some storage but even one at 124 or 248gb would be fine with me.

 I am not sure how many hours I have on the D10. I have run it 24/7 for most of the time I have had it but the sound has opened up even more. Unbelievable.


----------



## JDUBS

So, guys, has anyone confirmed that an H120 / 140 running Rockbox will / won't do 24/96 files (not down-sampled) into the D10? I saw some discussion early on in the thread but no definitive results.

 Thanks,
 Jim


----------



## nc8000

No I could not get a sensible answer from anybody at RockBox.org so gave up.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_emmm I hate to rain on the parade...but since this seems to be a regular gathering place for H120/140 owners...I thought I'd share this:












 Yeah, those are "iModded" H140. They sound so good I may actually abandon my PCM1793 DAC......and pours mud into my plan to acquire a D10.




_

 

It doesn't affect the optical line out result so i'll pass. But i believe H320 owner will be very interested 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a side note, how does it compare to imod? I find that even iriver stock lineout is better than imod 4G or 5G with BG.

 Look like I'm about to find some Elna caps to roll my D10


----------



## bakhtiar

USB related question: If you plug the D10 to PC/laptop's USB, as what device it appears? 


 Thank you.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

USB audio CODEC


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It doesn't affect the optical line out result so i'll pass. But i believe H320 owner will be very interested 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 On a side note, how does it compare to imod? I find that even iriver stock lineout is better than imod 4G or 5G with BG.

 Look like I'm about to find some Elna caps to roll my D10_

 

That's the whole point, this mod does not affect optical out. Recently I have been comparing the output of iMod 5G and 4G (all DIY) with the iRiver H140 Lineout - the H140 fell off just very slightly. The stock Lineout was not open sounding enough compared to modded iPods (with the right caps).

 But with this mod, the true capabilities of the H140 internal DAC is beginning to shine as it nearly outgun the modded iPods - this with practically no burn in on the H140 Elna caps.

 Most importantly, I am really bothered with the extra bulk of my external optical DAC and despite the stellar sound, I think a properly tweaked H140 internal DAC can actually scale up to match them almost eye to eye


----------



## khtse

Weird.

 I had my D10 fully charged yesterday using the power adapter. After which I flip the charge switch to off, and plug it into the USB port of my PC and continue burring in both the D10 and my newly bought IE8, which volume set at 1 o'clock position. 

 Just now I was surprised to find that my D10 turned itself off, with the USB cable still connected to my PC. I flipped the charge switch to on (without pulling the USB cable), and the D10 turned itself on again, with the red light below the volume knob flashing (indicating very low battery). Does this means that the D10 has been using up the battery for the last 2 days!? However, after a few minutes, the red light became steady and stopped flashing, suggested that the battery is being charged through the USB cable!

 How is it possible that the D10 runs on battery power and charges it at the same time, when connected to PC using USB!?


----------



## theory_87

To use the external power, D10 charging switch must be on.


----------



## yukihiro

Started burning in my d10 today... I am extremely impressed. The only amps that I have previously listened to are the e3, e5, and pa2v2... and the d10 amp is simply amazing compared to them. I can only imagine how a full-sized desktop amp would sound...

 I'm currently using the stock setup. I doubt I'll change anything until everything is completely burned in. I haven't tried the DAC yet (and won't be using the optical), but I hope to do so soon...


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most importantly, I am really bothered with the extra bulk of my external optical DAC and despite the stellar sound, I think a properly tweaked H140 internal DAC can actually scale up to match them almost eye to eye_

 


 I can understand that...but the D10 is reasonably sized enough that it's a decent compromise...and enough of a solution for my situation that I would pass on that capacitor Mod. Before the D10, I would have been tempted....

 Hopefully you'll post your extended impressions somewhere for us H1xx fans to see.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can understand that...but the D10 is reasonably sized enough that it's a decent compromise...and enough of a solution for my situation that I would pass on that capacitor Mod. Before the D10, I would have been tempted....

 Hopefully you'll post your extended impressions somewhere for us H1xx fans to see._

 

I'm fairly confident he'll get the d10 at some point of time. Most probably after he is done wif burn in of the caps.
 Using d10 would be not much of different in size compare to most amp unless we are talking about supermicro


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm fairly confident he'll get the d10 at some point of time. Most probably after he is done wif burn in of the caps.
 Using d10 would be not much of different in size compare to most amp unless we are talking about supermicro_

 

Hey EFN, I think theory is saying "It's inevitable Mr. Anderson"


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *khtse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Weird.

 I had my D10 fully charged yesterday using the power adapter. After which I flip the charge switch to off, and plug it into the USB port of my PC and continue burring in both the D10 and my newly bought IE8, which volume set at 1 o'clock position. 

 Just now I was surprised to find that my D10 turned itself off, with the USB cable still connected to my PC. I flipped the charge switch to on (without pulling the USB cable), and the D10 turned itself on again, with the red light below the volume knob flashing (indicating very low battery). Does this means that the D10 has been using up the battery for the last 2 days!? However, after a few minutes, the red light became steady and stopped flashing, suggested that the battery is being charged through the USB cable!

 How is it possible that the D10 runs on battery power and charges it at the same time, when connected to PC using USB!?_

 

The D10 amp section (like the D2 Boa) is always running off battery, so you have to flip the charge switch to "on" to keep the battery topped off while running it constantly for burn-in. 

 If you use only the USB DAC with line-out then you do not need to turn on the amp section or have the charge switch flipped on, as the DAC section runs off the USB power only and will not drain the battery.

 Interestingly, the optical coax DAC section still needs the amp to be turned on, even to only use the line out.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D10 picks up on detail but requires burn-in time. How many hours do you have on your D10? 

 I am using the stock opamp and the 8656 as buffers. The stock configuration is also very good, in my opinion._

 

I haven't been keeping track that closely, but I'd say it's rapidly approaching 100 hrs.

 Yeah, I'm impatient


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HiFlight says the AD8599 in the D10 is the best, and rivals or beats his iQube. I forget what opamps for buffers he recommended with that. I have one on the way.

 PS: I have the AD8599 in my modded Stax SR-001 and it kicks butt._

 

Gotcha...one thing...Hi Flight told me that you shouldn't press down on the chip itself, but use your fingernails to push down on the edges of the browndog adapter. If you push on the SOIC chip, you may break a solder connection, which is what I did.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey EFN, I think theory is saying "It's inevitable Mr. Anderson"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

"Resistance is Futile"......


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interestingly, the optical coax DAC section still needs the amp to be turned on, even to only use the line out._

 

USB is designed to carry power to the device that's plugged in (5 volts, I think). An optical (or coax) connection doesn't transfer power, so the DAC needs to use the amp's battery.

 Hope this helps.

 -HK sends


----------



## wuwhere

I believe USB 2.0 output can supply 5VDC ±5%, 1.5A. The AC USB charger that came with the D10 is rated at 5VDC, 1A.


----------



## ElEsido

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JDUBS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, guys, has anyone confirmed that an H120 / 140 running Rockbox will / won't do 24/96 files (not down-sampled) into the D10? I saw some discussion early on in the thread but no definitive results.

 Thanks,
 Jim_

 

Unfortunately it downsamples things, and apparently in a rather crude way. Downsampling a 24/96 file on a PC to 16/44.1 is said to sound better than playing the 24/96 file directly on the rockboxed HH1xx.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gotcha...one thing...Hi Flight told me that you shouldn't press down on the chip itself, but use your fingernails to push down on the edges of the browndog adapter. If you push on the SOIC chip, you may break a solder connection, which is what I did._

 

I think I posted that SOIC push in thing earlier... Very important as I busted my 1st LM6172 a while back pushing it in.


----------



## alightnz

My first amp--D10 arrived today, looks & sounds soooo great. Much much better than my Se530 thu IPC. Soundstage very similar to my home systerm. What a bargain................
 Just now one bad thing happened. I was use LMH6643 as two buffers. And then....some smokeeee........bad smell from LMH6643 .
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I turn it off, change back to stock setup, still working 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Just wondering, is it going to short my D10's life? or any bad effect to sound quaility?? So worry about it.....it's just new.....


----------



## bakhtiar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_USB audio CODEC_

 

Thank you sir.

 My final question before considering to buy D10. I just read PCM2906 (USB interface) datasheet, and I found that, it only accepts up to 48/16 from USB input. Since my main audio source is laptop or netbook USB, so, does it mean I cannot playback 96/24 natively from USB port ?

 Thank you.


----------



## alightnz

One more thing, when I use with the AD8656 as 2 buffers, I can hear a big electricity hum noise( about 2 seconds) from my se530, when I tune the nob to the off section. Is it normal?? Or just mine.....


----------



## nc8000

I also get a bit of hiss/static when turning on and off, I assume it is the caps "filling up" and "emptying".


----------



## mrarroyo

Many amps make this noise when powering up or down. I personally lower the volume and in the portable amps I disconnect my headphone prior to turning them off. I also wait until the amp is powered w/ the volume at zero before plugging my headphone.


----------



## Evergreen

I am still seeing the "out of stock" message on the iBasso website. Any information on when this will change?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Evergreen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am still seeing the "out of stock" message on the iBasso website. Any information on when this will change?_

 

Don't know about the "Out Of Stock" notice but they are taking orders and shipping them as fast as the order comes in.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you sir.

 My final question before considering to buy D10. I just read PCM2906 (USB interface) datasheet, and I found that, it only accepts up to 48/16 from USB input. Since my main audio source is laptop or netbook USB, so, does it mean I cannot playback 96/24 natively from USB port ?

 Thank you._

 

Yes, most devices only support 16/48 via USB.


----------



## Evergreen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't know about the "Out Of Stock" notice but they are taking orders and shipping them as fast as the order comes in._

 

The iBasso site was very recalcitrant today. I don't understand the logic of posting an "Out of Stock" notice on a product when it is in stock and shipping. 

 I am looking forward to adding to my iBasso collection.


----------



## HiFlight

It sounds like you accidentally inserted the LMH6643 backwards. The opamps on the green adapters have an outline of the socket so it is easy to match the polarity of of the adapter to that of the socket using the notched outlines as a guide. 

 Unfortunately, the buffer opamps use a different adapter and do not have this outline, and the only way to tell if they are oriented correctly is to look carefully at the 8 solder pads along the 2 sides of the adapter. 
 One of the corner pads will be square in shape and all the others are round. You may need a magnifier to determine this, but be very sure to insert the adapter so that the square pad is pointing at the end of the mounting socket that has the small notch. 

 If installed incorrectly, you will nearly always destroy the opamp as it is (usually) the weakest link in the component chain. 

 Some amplifiers, such as the Head-Direct EF1 are not so tolerant of mistakes, and will be damaged along with the opamp. 

 It is very unlikely that you have damaged your D10 as long as it is once again playing normally. 

 The reason for the loud noise when turning off the amp is that the supply is removed from the opamp and on the way to shutting down, it goes thru a period of very high distortion as it reaches the lower limit of its supply voltage envelope. This is normal, and nearly all amps exhibit this behavior. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alightnz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My first amp--D10 arrived today, looks & sounds soooo great. Much much better than my Se530 thu IPC. Soundstage very similar to my home systerm. What a bargain................
 Just now one bad thing happened. I was use LMH6643 as two buffers. And then....some smokeeee........bad smell from LMH6643 .
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I turn it off, change back to stock setup, still working 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Just wondering, is it going to short my D10's life? or any bad effect to sound quaility?? So worry about it.....it's just new....._


----------



## TopQuark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you use only the USB DAC with line-out then you do not need to turn on the amp section or have the charge switch flipped on, as the DAC section runs off the USB power only and will not drain the battery._

 

Can you confirm this? I am not getting the same thing. Using USB DAC, the amp section still have to be turned on to run with line out. There is no signal coming out if turned off. This behavior is unlike my D3.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TopQuark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you confirm this? I am not getting the same thing. Using USB DAC, the amp section still have to be turned on to run with line out. There is no signal coming out if turned off. This behavior is unlike my D3._

 

I just tried this I have to turn on the D10 too.


----------



## mcx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Evergreen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The iBasso site was very recalcitrant today. I don't understand the logic of posting an "Out of Stock" notice on a product when it is in stock and shipping. 

 I am looking forward to adding to my iBasso collection._

 

I suspect that they have no stock and are building the product and fulfilling back orders as product becomes ready. I ordered while there was a "Temporarily Out of Stock!!!" notice, and it took a few days to ship my order:

 Order placed: 2/23/2009 02:00 PM EST
 Shipping notice: 2/26/2009 10:30 AM EST

 I have not received it yet, but I expect it will come soon. I think that they will take the "Temporarily Out of Stock!!!" notice down when all back orders have been fulfilled and they have inventory for new orders.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I will have to try it again to confirm that - I thought it was the same as the D3 in that regard, but since it runs from battery and USB charges battery they might not have needed to add that feature.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I was asked to try a stock buffer in the main amp with bypassed buffers, by someone who says iBasso told them it puts out 250ma. I could try that later when my AD8599 comes in this week and I have to open it up again. iBasso said the opamp which is printed AD708 8532 is not AD708, it is AD8532. Has anyone else tried this?

 I am using the AD8656 buffers with the stock ADA4841-2 because it was more aggressive and powerful with full size cans like HD600, ESW10 and Editon 9 - but Blutarsky didn't like that combo with IEM today when he came over for a mini-meet. he thought it was harsher than when he last heard the D10 stock 2 weeks ago. I guess the stock configuration is a little smoother but not quite as energetic. So, I have no way to predict how the stock buffers will sound in the main socket.


----------



## jamato8

The upper mids are a little more forward with the 8656 as buffers, which may be what he was hearing. iBasso still prefers the stock opamp and buffers as the most balanced and they very well may be right.


----------



## wuwhere

I also really like the stock opamp and buffers. I will also try the AD8599 opamp/AD8656 buffers when my AD8599 arrives sometime next week.

 I now have about 258 hours of burn-in.


----------



## PeterDLai

*Statement of the original problem:*

 Hmm, I'm having a problem with my D10, and I don't really know anything about how it works so I can't seem to figure out what's wrong with it. I'll try to be thorough...

 1) Initially, I thought my AUX IN/OUT port was not working correctly because amplifying any signal completely sucked out the mids. I found out that it's most likely the cheap interconnect they included because if I bend it a certain way, it plays correctly.

 2) When I try to use it as a USB DAC/amp (nothing plugged into AUX IN/OUT), the HEADPHONE OUT only outputs normally to the right channel if my headphones are plugged all the way in. If I listen to only the left side of my earphones, I can hear the music but it is very, very faint and quiet.

 3) Using it as a USB DAC/amp again, the sound is different depending on varying degrees of how deep I push the headphone plug into the HEADPHONE OUT. If I plug it in barely (just the tip), I can hear both channels, equally, but it doesn't sound right (muddy and hazy). Plugging it in a little more then I can make it so only the left channel makes sound. Then finally, it's more or less like that until I plug it all the way in, which is what was described in (2), where only the right side is clearly audible.

 4) Not sure if there is anything wrong here, but if I plug the headphones into the AUX IN/OUT while it's connected to the computer, I can hear both sides equally, but it's just quiet. I assume then that it's working as a line-out from the DAC, which seems to be functionally normally. All of my problems appear to be traced back to the HEADPHONE OUT.

 I hope an expert here can diagnose my problem and if I'm doing something stupid and there's some sort of solution without sending it back, I'd greatly appreciate it. I feel like I've tried everything, and I am relatively sure it is not the headphones (they work fine with other sources). Is it that it's locked in some mode and therefore the HEADPHONE OUT isn't supposed to work as intended? Or is my unit defective?

 Please help! Thank you!

*EDIT #1:* Umm, literally RIGHT after I posted this, I just tried plugging in my FiiO E3 amplifier at the AUX IN/OUT port while it was plugged into the computer as a USB DAC/amp, just out of curiosity. It was very loud and because the FiiO doesn't have any sort of volume control I unplugged it immediately. After unplugging it, my HEADPHONE OUT is now functionally normally. If someone can explain to me what just happened, I'd appreciate it still. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm just glad it's working again...

*EDIT #2:* Problem has returned just suddenly. Someone help! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*EDIT #3:* Okay, plugging the FiiO back into the AUX IN/OUT again fixed it, and this time I turned the unit off and back on. Let's hope it's permanent this time...

*EDIT #4:* Okay, I know this isn't the most organized post, but it seems the issue keeps reappearing randomly, and now I'm observing that slight twists and slight differences in pressure on the headphone plug near the headphone jack can change how the sound is outputted when the problem reappears. The problem (sound only outputting normal out of right channel) reappears randomly without me touching the unit, and sometimes it's a smooth transition sometimes it's instant.

*EDIT #5:* I can't seem to isolate the problem, and everything is working against me. The little tool they included doesn't work in a couple of the screws, so I don't know how to open it up to even check what's wrong. The problem always comes back, and some fiddling with the headphone plug at the headphone jack and I can get it to work normally again, but the left channel will eventually go out again. I haven't been able to isolate the problem to the headphone jack because I don't have a working interconnect on me right now (the one they included seems to be broken already). From what I remember, the headphone jack was working fine when the D10 was being used as purely an amplifier, but that might have been a fluke and I can't test it now. Ugh.

*EDIT #6:* The problem hasn't reappeared for about 10 minutes now which is a record for me. The difference now? I let it charge up a bit, though the red light was never in flashing low-battery mode. I'm listening to it now with the charging circuit on as well.

*EDIT #7:* The problem returns... I'm thinking it has something to do with the headphone jack, but I can't get the thing open because most of the screws were already worn out when I received it. I'm suspecting that customs actually opened my package and actually might even have opened up the D10 itself carelessly and wore out the screws. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I noticed something was fishy when I received my package and the bag was already torn open but re-taped together. In any case, I'm probably going to just send it back to iBasso at this point because I still want to be able to open it up in the future regardless...

*EDIT #8:* Actually managed to get it open, inspected it a bit, tried replacing buffers, etc. Problem persists and now is becoming seemingly permanent (I can't seem to "fix it" anymore even with slight fiddling with the headphone plug).

 First my defective Westone 3, now this.


----------



## ElEsido

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PeterDLai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 4) Not sure if there is anything wrong here, but if I plug the headphones into the AUX IN/OUT while it's connected to the computer, I can hear both sides equally, but it's just quiet._

 


 The D10 has a micro crontoller that checks all inputs and outputs and then deciedes how the signal is routed. So if you turn the unit on with the headphones plugged int, the signal probably won't be routed to the line out. Turn off the unit, attach the other am to the line out and turn id on again. 

 If the problem remains it would probably be a warranty case.


----------



## ElEsido

When using the D10 on the train and I can hear the signal clicks of nearby cellphones every other second. Is it the D10 or the headphone cable that picks up those clicks?


----------



## Ney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElEsido* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When using the D10 on the train and I can hear the signal clicks of nearby cellphones every other second. Is it the D10 or the headphone cable that picks up those clicks?_

 

What source do you use? The signal could be "contaminated" before entering the D10.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PeterDLai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Statement of the original problem:*

 Hmm, I'm having a problem with my D10, and I don't really know anything about how it works so I can't seem to figure out what's wrong with it. I'll try to be thorough..._

 

I wouldn't even bother. Something, at some level, is obviously wrong with that D10. Get iBasso to send you another.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PeterDLai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Statement of the original problem:*

 Hmm, I'm having a problem with my D10, and I don't really know anything about how it works so I can't seem to figure out what's wrong with it. I'll try to be thorough...

 1) Initially, I thought my AUX IN/OUT port was not working correctly because amplifying any signal completely sucked out the mids. I found out that it's most likely the cheap interconnect they included because if I bend it a certain way, it plays correctly.

 2) When I try to use it as a USB DAC/amp (nothing plugged into AUX IN/OUT), the HEADPHONE OUT only outputs normally to the right channel if my headphones are plugged all the way in. If I listen to only the left side of my earphones, I can hear the music but it is very, very faint and quiet.

 3) Using it as a USB DAC/amp again, the sound is different depending on varying degrees of how deep I push the headphone plug into the HEADPHONE OUT. If I plug it in barely (just the tip), I can hear both channels, equally, but it doesn't sound right (muddy and hazy). Plugging it in a little more then I can make it so only the left channel makes sound. Then finally, it's more or less like that until I plug it all the way in, which is what was described in (2), where only the right side is clearly audible.

 4) Not sure if there is anything wrong here, but if I plug the headphones into the AUX IN/OUT while it's connected to the computer, I can hear both sides equally, but it's just quiet. I assume then that it's working as a line-out from the DAC, which seems to be functionally normally. All of my problems appear to be traced back to the HEADPHONE OUT.

 I hope an expert here can diagnose my problem and if I'm doing something stupid and there's some sort of solution without sending it back, I'd greatly appreciate it. I feel like I've tried everything, and I am relatively sure it is not the headphones (they work fine with other sources). Is it that it's locked in some mode and therefore the HEADPHONE OUT isn't supposed to work as intended? Or is my unit defective?

 Please help! Thank you!

*EDIT #1:* Umm, literally RIGHT after I posted this, I just tried plugging in my FiiO E3 amplifier at the AUX IN/OUT port while it was plugged into the computer as a USB DAC/amp, just out of curiosity. It was very loud and because the FiiO doesn't have any sort of volume control I unplugged it immediately. After unplugging it, my HEADPHONE OUT is now functionally normally. If someone can explain to me what just happened, I'd appreciate it still. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm just glad it's working again...

*EDIT #2:* Problem has returned just suddenly. Someone help! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*EDIT #3:* Okay, plugging the FiiO back into the AUX IN/OUT again fixed it, and this time I turned the unit off and back on. Let's hope it's permanent this time...

*EDIT #4:* Okay, I know this isn't the most organized post, but it seems the issue keeps reappearing randomly, and now I'm observing that slight twists and slight differences in pressure on the headphone plug near the headphone jack can change how the sound is outputted when the problem reappears. The problem (sound only outputting normal out of right channel) reappears randomly without me touching the unit, and sometimes it's a smooth transition sometimes it's instant.

*EDIT #5:* I can't seem to isolate the problem, and everything is working against me. The little tool they included doesn't work in a couple of the screws, so I don't know how to open it up to even check what's wrong. The problem always comes back, and some fiddling with the headphone plug at the headphone jack and I can get it to work normally again, but the left channel will eventually go out again. I haven't been able to isolate the problem to the headphone jack because I don't have a working interconnect on me right now (the one they included seems to be broken already). From what I remember, the headphone jack was working fine when the D10 was being used as purely an amplifier, but that might have been a fluke and I can't test it now. Ugh.

*EDIT #6:* The problem hasn't reappeared for about 10 minutes now which is a record for me. The difference now? I let it charge up a bit, though the red light was never in flashing low-battery mode. I'm listening to it now with the charging circuit on as well.

*EDIT #7:* The problem returns... I'm thinking it has something to do with the headphone jack, but I can't get the thing open because most of the screws were already worn out when I received it. I'm suspecting that customs actually opened my package and actually might even have opened up the D10 itself carelessly and wore out the screws. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I noticed something was fishy when I received my package and the bag was already torn open but re-taped together. In any case, I'm probably going to just send it back to iBasso at this point because I still want to be able to open it up in the future regardless...

*EDIT #8:* Actually managed to get it open, inspected it a bit, tried replacing buffers, etc. Problem persists and now is becoming seemingly permanent (I can't seem to "fix it" anymore even with slight fiddling with the headphone plug).

 First my defective Westone 3, now this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I would contact iBasso with the problem,I would say you have a bad unit.
 I would say iBasso's quality control is lacking with rushing out these out of stock units.


----------



## qusp

sounds like an intermittent grounding issue on the jack to me; send it back, dont mess around with it. thats what warranties are for. and dont be playing with the jack pushing it in slowly, you could cause a short. with the tip in you obviously get the right channel coming through the left, then most of the way in you are getting the one channel through both left and right and then all the way in you are only getting the functioning channel and an intermittent channel which sounds to be like it is shorting to ground intermittently. but while doing that you are also shorting the output to ground; they will have some form of resistance tio stop any shorts from reaching the dac I would imagine, but still not a good thing to be doing really

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElEsido* 
_When using the D10 on the train and I can hear the signal clicks of nearby cellphones every other second. Is it the D10 or the headphone cable that picks up those clicks?_

 

I would say both, but unfortunately more the D10, headphone cxables are usually shielded to some degree. sounds like the usual ineffective RF shielding iBasso use. why they havent got that sorted out by now I dont know. its probably the major thing stopping me from buying one. it has been reported with T4, D2, D3 and now D10. come-on, its not THAT hard. that actually really sux, because I was really hoping they had fixed that issue with this one, was the first ibasso offering that I have been truly tempted to buy. although I suppose I could rig something up myself. sounds like too much trouble though. anyone else having this problem??


----------



## HiFlight

"Quote......................................snip.. .......................
 sounds like the usual ineffective RF shielding iBasso use. why they havent got that sorted out by now I dont know. its probably the major thing stopping me from buying one. .........................snip..................... .....Unquote"

 It is not ineffective shielding, it is the ADA4841-2 opamp that is very susceptible to RF that is picked up by the input cable, which acts as an RF antenna. While this is annoying, it can be reduced or eliminated by removing the cellphone by several feet from the phone. 

 I have observed this RF interference problem on several other high-quality portable amps made by other manufacturers. 

 Cellphones communicate with the cell base station by varying their output power depending on the distance. Sometimes with a very strong signal showing on your phone, there will be little, if any, RF interference, with a weak signal, you will hear more. 

 IMO, the ADA4841 is one of the best audio opamps, but if the interference is too much of a problem, use a different opamp.


----------



## theory_87

to add on to HiFlight post, using ad8397 and the RF interference is greatly reduce compare to stock setup. ad8397 with bypassed buffer will only pickup minor RFI when the cellphone is less than 10cm.

 BTW, anyone can compare how ad8599 will sound compare to ad8397 and ad8066?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_to add on to HiFlight post, using ad8397 and the RF interference is greatly reduce compare to stock setup. ad8397 with bypassed buffer will only pickup minor RFI when the cellphone is less than 10cm.

 BTW, anyone can compare how ad8599 will sound compare to ad8397 and ad8066?_

 

HiFlight says the AD8599 can sound like his iQube, and match or beat it's performance. I should have mine in a day or two to try and report on.


----------



## PeterDLai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sounds like an intermittent grounding issue on the jack to me; send it back, dont mess around with it. thats what warranties are for. and dont be playing with the jack pushing it in slowly, you could cause a short. with the tip in you obviously get the right channel coming through the left, then most of the way in you are getting the one channel through both left and right and then all the way in you are only getting the functioning channel and an intermittent channel which sounds to be like it is shorting to ground intermittently. but while doing that you are also shorting the output to ground; they will have some form of resistance tio stop any shorts from reaching the dac I would imagine, but still not a good thing to be doing really_

 

Thanks for your input.

 Just wanted to give some quick praise to iBasso's service as they have handled my situation perfectly. I'm sending my faulty unit back, e-mailing them a scan of the USPS receipt and once I do so, they will send a new replacement. If they find that the issue is indeed with the D10, they will refund me the return shipping. Can't ask for any more than that!


----------



## dazzer1975

agreed, thats pretty damn fine service from Ibasso.


----------



## immtbiker

That is as good as it gets!


----------



## woof37

I have to say I'm more and more impressed with each listen to this thing. It's not quite as warm as my Headroom Micro Stack, but it's pretty close everywhere else, and it's nowhere near broken in enough. Think I'll put the Micro Stack on the FS board, because I don't get a chance to listen to it anyway.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I can only use my Micro Stack as my bedside rig, sometimes swapping out the amp for a change of pace. The D10 is my "go to" rig for my laptop now.

 I got my AD8599 in today, and LTC6241HV Saturday, so i will be trying both of those tonight, hopefully.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Quote......................................snip.. .......................
 sounds like the usual ineffective RF shielding iBasso use. why they havent got that sorted out by now I dont know. its probably the major thing stopping me from buying one. .........................snip..................... .....Unquote"

 It is not ineffective shielding, it is the ADA4841-2 opamp that is very susceptible to RF that is picked up by the input cable, which acts as an RF antenna. While this is annoying, it can be reduced or eliminated by removing the cellphone by several feet from the phone. 

 I have observed this RF interference problem on several other high-quality portable amps made by other manufacturers. 

 Cellphones communicate with the cell base station by varying their output power depending on the distance. Sometimes with a very strong signal showing on your phone, there will be little, if any, RF interference, with a weak signal, you will hear more. 

 IMO, the ADA4841 is one of the best audio opamps, but if the interference is too much of a problem, use a different opamp._

 

i'm aware that its not just the amp or this amp in particular, but put it this way, I dont turn to airplane mode with my iphone at all even when actually using it as a DAP with my pico (actually strapped to each other, so cant get closer) and I can use the internet, send/receive email, take calls everything is silent no matter how far or close I am to the tower. only time I get some RF is when it switches to 2g (in 3G blackspots) and pings the tower to log on or verify its position. on 3G there is absolutely nothing with pico. and for the record, my interconnects are totally unshielded; simply a braid, so good for EMI but for RF it doesnt effectively shield it, so blaming the IC is not really appropriate. Yes maybe the op-amp is part of the problem, but it does seem to be a problem with pretty much the whole ibasso line and you shouldnt have to tweak a product just to avoid issues such as this that should really be sorted out with shielding or more R&D. otherwise it sounds like a fantastic product, just this issue turns me off a bit, I dont want to have to wrap the amp in ERS paper or alfoil to reduce RF interference. I like to leave that stuff to Patrick


----------



## ElEsido

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElEsido* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When using the D10 on the train and I can hear the signal clicks of nearby cellphones every other second. Is it the D10 or the headphone cable that picks up those clicks?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What source do you use? The signal could be "contaminated" before entering the D10._

 

I use an iriver H140 with an optical connection to the D10.


----------



## ElEsido

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_although I suppose I could rig something up myself. sounds like too much trouble though._

 

About the RF-interference from cell phones: What would you do about it if you had to? Would stuffing some layers of anti-static-bags inside the case help?


----------



## ElEsido

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is not ineffective shielding, it is the ADA4841-2 opamp that is very susceptible to RF that is picked up by the input cable, which acts as an RF antenna. _

 

The H140 is connected via optical, which shouldn't pick up RF signals, I believe. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While this is annoying, it can be reduced or eliminated by removing the cellphone by several feet from the phone. _

 

I even hear other people's phones from several meters away when mine is switched off. I believe what I hear are the clicks when the phones switch base stations, which happens quite often on a running train. There is also the longer hum of a voice call building up, and of course the caracteristic rhythm of text messages. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, the ADA4841 is one of the best audio opamps, but if the interference is too much of a problem, use a different opamp._

 

I hoped I could live happily ever after with the stock opamps...


----------



## npcraig

Okay the wrench they included doesnt fit for me.. Am I missing something here?


----------



## jamato8

I have an allen wrench, silver in color, that came with mine and it works fine. How doesn't it fit? Too big, too small?


----------



## npcraig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have an allen wrench, silver in color, that came with mine and it works fine. How doesn't it fit? Too big, too small?_

 

Too small. Allen wrench too.


----------



## jamato8

I would go to an Ace hardware or the like as it will take a while to get one from iBasso. I am not sure why they would have other sizes to include but I would also email iBasso.


----------



## npcraig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would go to an Ace hardware or the like as it will take a while to get one from iBasso. I am not sure why they would have other sizes to include but I would also email iBasso._

 

Alright, yah it's too small for the extras that come with too.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *npcraig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Too small. Allen wrench too._

 

Perhaps you got one like me....not a wrench, but screws that are too big (perhaps stripped) for the allenwrench to properly latch onto when turning.

 Their recommendation to me was to look for a new wrench...I haven't yet b/c I can open the front just fine to change opamps


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *npcraig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, yah it's too small for the extras that come with too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If I were you, just get yourself a better one. The one that came with the D10 does not appear to be a quality type. It may not even be exactly 1/16".


----------



## npcraig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I were you, just get yourself a better one. The one that came with the D10 does not appear to be a quality type. It may not even be exactly 1/16"._

 

Yah I just got a little kit, which has one that fits perfect.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElEsido* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About the RF-interference from cell phones: What would you do about it if you had to? Would stuffing some layers of anti-static-bags inside the case help?_

 

yes something like that; or recase the amp myself and shield that properly. wrap ERS paper around the amp but not of course your cellphone or you wont get any calls.


----------



## ElEsido

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes something like that; or recase the amp myself and shield that properly. wrap ERS paper around the amp but not of course your cellphone or you wont get any calls._

 

I'll try that, thanks. 

 I also have written to ibasso. Their answer was:  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iBasso* 
_"In my opinion, the D10 is well shielded. The stock opamp (ADA4841-2 is very sensitive to the cell phone signal. If you change the ADA4841-2 to other opamps, you wont hear any RFI on the train. There is no solution to shield the D10 better than now."_


----------



## Surrealsky

guys i just managed to get an iriver h120 and thinking pairing it up with the d10, however does the d10 set includes a optical cable with it?


----------



## nc8000

Yes it includes an optical cable but it is looong and (I think, am not near it and never used it) has toslink plugs both ends


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I were you, just get yourself a better one. The one that came with the D10 does not appear to be a quality type. It may not even be exactly 1/16"._

 

I didn't get one at all.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't get one at all._

 

Mine was inside the plastic box that contain the extra opamps and buffers.


----------



## npcraig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine was inside the plastic box that contain the extra opamps and buffers._

 

Same.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

With the stock ADA4841-2 I was getting a little bit of iPhone buzz, even with my Quick Bridge Solutions - EM Shield for iPhone EM blocking card. But with the LTC6241HV and stock buffers it sounds very nice and I am not hearing iPhone buzz even with my phone sitting a few inches away.

 I think the AD8656 sounds a little edgier in the buffer slots with IEM, especially Westone 3 but not with ES3X, while it helps wake up the HD600 a little better. Anyone else hear that with the AD8656 as buffers?

 My AD8599 was damaged in shipping, and another is on the way.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine was inside the plastic box that contain the extra opamps and buffers._

 

OK, haven't been inside that one yet so I might have gotten one after all


----------



## dazzer1975

just received my order from sys-concept.

 When I was ordering I thought wow these guys know how to charge, and I really dont subscribe to the one optical cable sounds different or superior to other optical cables (although I do to an extent with analogue cables) but I had to post this and write that whatever your opinions on optical cables, these are plainly very high quality.

 It seems a very robust and is patently clear that it is well made and a quality item.

 I wouldn't hesitate to use sys concept again or to recommend others to use their services.

 End result, as far as I am concerned, it is more than worth the money.


----------



## theory_87

Some goodies arrive today.





 Items including caps, ad8599 and ad8616 opamp.

 Had a fun time experimenting the goodies and finally decide on the setup below




 Still prefer ad8066 and ad8397 over ad8599


----------



## wuwhere

theory, what are those caps you swapped out the original caps with?


----------



## theory_87

Panasonic AM series caps. The power caps is 2200uf instead of the default 1500uf. For the other caps, the value is the same. I have some elna and rubycon caps to swap around in the future. But for now, I'm very happy with the sound I'm getting. there is more impact in the overall sound. In order for the power caps to fit in, I need to shift the battery more to the right and the rear power caps need to be bend in such angle to be able to slide in the case. Any caps with bigger diameter will not fit in the case.


----------



## nc8000

I wish my abilities stretched to do things like that but then I get more time to just enjoy the music. The stock unit really is very good.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Panasonic AM series caps. The power caps is 2200uf instead of the default 1500uf. For the other caps, the value is the same. I have some elna and rubycon caps to swap around in the future. But for now, I'm very happy with the sound I'm getting. there is more impact in the overall sound. In order for the power caps to fit in, I need to shift the battery more to the right and the rear power caps need to be bend in such angle to be able to slide in the case. Any caps with bigger diameter will not fit in the case._

 

Is your preference for ad8066 and ad8397 over ad8599 with these caps? You also swapped the bypass cap, which cap and its value? Thanks.


----------



## theory_87

bypass cap as posted earlier on in this thread is BG HI-Q NX 0.1uf. I have elna cerafine 0.47uf for changing in the future.

 Even with the stock caps, I prefer 8066 and 8397 over 8599. 8066 and 8397 sound more detailed to my ear. 8599 bass is a little too heavy for my liking and I feel the bass is masking the mid.

 I'm currently using AD8066 L/R, AD8656 Buffer combination.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_bypass cap as posted earlier on in this thread is BG HI-Q NX 0.1uf. I have elna cerafine 0.47uf for changing in the future.

 Even with the stock caps, I prefer 8066 and 8397 over 8599. 8066 and 8397 sound more detailed to my ear. 8599 bass is a little too heavy for my liking and I feel the bass is masking the mid.

 I'm currently using AD8066 L/R, AD8656 Buffer combination._

 

Where do you get your caps? 

 Keep the ideas coming and the evaluation of the sound, please. I normally modify everything but I get many questions as to the sound and if I modify this I can't give a true opinion of the stock sound and there are many that won't be changing anything besides the opamps.


----------



## theory_87

I got some from a local store


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't hesitate to use sys concept again or to recommend others to use their services.

 End result, as far as I am concerned, it is more than worth the money._

 


 I think Joseph does a great job and I have been impressed with every order I've made with him so far (around 4 or 5 by now). 

 My only minor quibble is that someone paying in US dollars cannot count on the USD quoted on their website for each product. It is somewhat misleading and I wish they would just quote Canadian instead. 

 For example, the cable we are all buying for our H1xx/D10 is listed as $17.19 USD on the site. In reality, the short U cables are actually verbally quoted as $22.19 since they are harder to make (I'm cool with that). As you work through the website and place your order, it reflects the 17.19 along with the shipping.

 In reality the u-cable is $42.17 CAN when the credit card is billed. Once converted to USD, it ends up being around $35 USD (not $17.19, $22.19, or even close!). 

 Joseph explained to me why this happens, but it still befuddles me
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 At all of those prices...the optical cables are worth it.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think Joseph does a great job and I have been impressed with every order I've made with him so far (around 4 or 5 by now). 

 My only minor quibble is that someone paying in US dollars cannot count on the USD quoted on their website for each product. It is somewhat misleading and I wish they would just quote Canadian instead. 

 For example, the cable we are all buying for our H1xx/D10 is listed as $17.19 USD on the site. In reality, the short U cables are actually verbally quoted as $22.19 since they are harder to make (I'm cool with that). As you work through the website and place your order, it reflects the 17.19 along with the shipping.

 In reality the u-cable is $42.17 CAN when the credit card is billed. Once converted to USD, it ends up being around $35 USD (not $17.19, $22.19, or even close!). 

 Joseph explained to me why this happens, but it still befuddles me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At all of those prices...the optical cables are worth it._

 

I say they are falsely advertising,or just plain jacking their prices up because he knows that some Head-Fi people will pay whatever price for a status that is imaginary.I would call that place a rip off.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I say they are falsely advertising,or just plain jacking their prices up because he knows that some Head-Fi people will pay whatever price for a status that is imaginary.I would call that place a rip off.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Give me a break. I have emailed with Joseph and at one point he said it was too hard to make the short cables. Do you think we are his only business? No one else will touch this. He does a CUSTOM job of making them to whatever length we want, works on a tiny length of cable, does a quality job, spends more time doing it and gets it done FAST. Please, if you don't like his price then don't buy from him. I am sure you can get the tools, cable and parts and make them yourself.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Give me a break. I have emailed with Joseph and at one point he said it was too hard to make the short cables. Do you think we are his only business? No one else will touch this. He does a CUSTOM job of making them to whatever length we want, works on a tiny length of cable, does a quality job, spends more time doing it and gets it done FAST. Please, if you don't like his price then don't buy from him. I am sure you can get the tools, cable and parts and make them yourself._

 

The man said the price advertised was $17.19, $22.19 not $35.00 USD.
 Perhaps it was misunderstood.


----------



## jamato8

Well I would ask for clarification on the cost. Maybe Joseph should make a note on his website for the ultra short cables. With shipping I guess the price to be around 31 dollars US. I will email Joseph and ask for a clarification.


----------



## nc8000

When I ordered the short option was quoted on the sit as an added extra $8 and going without the shell on the plug as another extra at a Price I can't remember. All in all I think I paid what the total on the site came to and the cable was shipped within 4 hours of placing the order and got to me in Denmark in 4 days. This is my third order with them and I have nothing but praise for product and customer service. I find the service amazing given the tiny orders we as a community place and think most companies would have told us t b....r of.


----------



## jamato8

Here is the cost breakdown I got. Yes it has increased but it appears that the labor intensity of this, and I know from my own work when I used to make IC's commercially, is a big factor. On the short cables without the metal shells, each end is done and epoxied one at a time. There is much more time involved. Since they are the only one I know of that will do this quality service, they are getting more orders and this takes time away from other orders. You have to be able to stay in business and make a equitable return for time and materials invested. This was something I was not always wise about in my own business. 

 Short cable with shell is +8.00 US $25.19 USD
 Short cable without shell is +8.00USD +7.00USD $32.19 USD -On these I found out that there is a special one time use epoxy that is used for the light transmission (which is why they can make there cables much longer than the standard and why they hold up so well). The hard cost just for this epoxy is 5 dollars.- 
 This pricing we will keep for this year.

 Shipping cost approx. $9.00

 The US and Canadian dollar are also fluctuating so this has to be considered.


----------



## nc8000

Yes that was exactly how I was quoted on the site when ordering plus abou $9 for shipping to Denmark. No rip of what so ever


----------



## Ney

Just got my D10 today, and it's my first dedicated headphone amp, and I must say that out of the box it's impressive, I like the edge and the slight in your face it has compared to my NAD T765 output, if it really improves a lot over the next few weeks like you guys suggest I will be a bit surprised and quite happy.


----------



## yukihiro

Hmm... So I tried the AD8656 and the LMH6643 in the buffers and I liked the stock setup the best. I haven't tried swapping out the main LR. Anyone have any suggestions for a warmer opamp? I like how the D10 sounds now, but wouldn't mind something a bit warmer.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yukihiro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm... So I tried the AD8656 and the LMH6643 in the buffers and I liked the stock setup the best. I haven't tried swapping out the main LR. Anyone have any suggestions for a warmer opamp? I like how the D10 sounds now, but wouldn't mind something a bit warmer._

 

My thinking exactly.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yukihiro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm... So I tried the AD8656 and the LMH6643 in the buffers and I liked the stock setup the best. I haven't tried swapping out the main LR. Anyone have any suggestions for a warmer opamp? I like how the D10 sounds now, but wouldn't mind something a bit warmer._

 

LTC6241HV + LMH6643. Warm, rich...the LTC6241HV is what Xin considers a "solid tube-Wide voltage". I would agree with the description.

 The LTC6241HV is SOIC so you have to solder it onto a browndog, or buy one pre soldered from Hi Flight or someone else to does the soldering.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LTC6241HV + LMH6643. Warm, rich...the LTC6241HV is what Xin considers a "solid tube-Wide voltage". I would agree with the description.

 The LTC6241HV is SOIC so you have to solder it onto a browndog, or buy one pre soldered from Hi Flight or someone else to does the soldering._

 

How much is that whole setup?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much is that whole setup?_

 

The two LMH6643 come with the D10, the LTC6241HV cost me $15 from HiFlight shipped us postal (he makes nothing on the sale).


----------



## wuwhere

Bought my AD8599 from HiFlight. Might have to email him again for an LTC6241HV just to check it out.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The two LMH6643 come with the D10, the LTC6241HV cost me $15 from HiFlight shipped us postal (he makes nothing on the sale)._

 

Pretty easy to put on? And I would not have a problem paying a service charge. Good assistance is worth paying for.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where do you get your caps? 

 Keep the ideas coming and the evaluation of the sound, please. I normally modify everything but I get many questions as to the sound and if I modify this I can't give a true opinion of the stock sound and there are many that won't be changing anything besides the opamps._

 

12h of burn in till now. I didn't notice any obvious change compare to 0h. The caps seems to be quite stablise and was told by the shop that it design as audio caps.

 The main different to the default caps,
 1. Vocal sound closer
 2. Overall sound more energetic and impactful (Slight increase in volume too)
 3. Soundstage is more 3D, more height and more depth.
 4. The turn on pop is quite soft compare to the stock.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_emmm I hate to rain on the parade...but since this seems to be a regular gathering place for H120/140 owners...I thought I'd share this:











 Yeah, those are "iModded" H140. They sound so good I may actually abandon my PCM1793 DAC......and pours mud into my plan to acquire a D10.




_

 

Ok, I have found an area, even with my 120gb hard drive, to place some nice nonpolar Black Gate caps, my favorite, the 47ug HiQ, which I have used directly in the signal path before in experiments and found to be very neutral.

 I modified my 140 and somehow wrecked my 120gb drive. I don't know how. Anyway I put a 40gb drive in and the unit sounds good. More detail and bass and the need to let the caps form/burn in. The D10 sounds better but for a small self contained unit the iRiver an the T4 is a nice way to go or the Mustang.

 Strange, the 120gb I thought went bad, though I didn't see how it could, works in my third H140, so I left it in that one. :^)

 Now I have 2 140's with 120gb drives and one that is modified with better caps on the output. I hear much more detail and separation, but then this isn't about iRivers, is it? Well it's all good.

 EFN, you need to try some 47uf HiQ black Gates.

 I wonder if the optical in on the iRiver is also a coax in? I have the good ole TORX that are no longer made that are the same size and are optical and coax (mini) for the digital in. I am glad I bought a few before they stopped making them.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pretty easy to put on? And I would not have a problem paying a service charge. Good assistance is worth paying for._

 

Yeah, Hi-Flight does some good work...

 Just remember, any SOIC onto browndog...when you put it in the dip socket, use your fingernails to press down, don't press down on the soic chip itself. Sorry if you already knew this/I am being redundant.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, Hi-Flight does some good work...

 Just remember, any SOIC onto browndog...when you put it in the dip socket, use your fingernails to press down, don't press down on the soic chip itself. Sorry if you already knew this/I am being redundant._

 

No, I didn't - it's welcomed. Where exactly do you press then?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I didn't - it's welcomed. Where exactly do you press then?_

 

You press down on each side by the pins. The idea is not to apply pressure in the middle as you can break the adapter but if you press where the pins are there is no real strain on the middle of the adapter.


----------



## El_Doug

for those of us who have not yet received our D10's, but want to be prepared...

 with an H-140, what is the "center to center" measurement for the optical connections between these two devices?


----------



## nc8000

About 2.8 cm or just over an inch


----------



## El_Doug

ty


----------



## legend24

Hi, guys, I registered recently just to be able to search all the review and find out more about D10
 I'm becoming more and more interested to be able to enjoy better quality music therefore chance upon D10

 D10 it seems however is catered to the more of a "Modd" community, even thought Iam not a DIY person, but I am really interested to D10 as my first experiment. 
 So i was wondering if Im using a ipod touch as source and an IEM, would I be able to enjoy the same type of quality as you guys? *fingers crossed


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *legend24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, guys, I registered recently just to be able to search all the review and find out more about D10
 I'm becoming more and more interested to be able to enjoy better quality music therefore chance upon D10

 D10 it seems however is catered to the more of a "Modd" community, even thought Iam not a DIY person, but I am really interested to D10 as my first experiment. 
 So i was wondering if Im using a ipod touch as source and an IEM, would I be able to enjoy the same type of quality as you guys? *fingers crossed_

 

95% of my D10 review was done with the stock opamps - yes, enjoy it as it is unmodded.

 See near the bottom of the second post of the thread: UPDATED 2/22 REVIEW 13 USB DAC amp - Predator, Pico, 2/3MOVE, D10 D3 D2 Viper/Boa D1, Lyrix, MicroAmp, Vivid V1, Nuforce, XM5 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## Dublo7

I can't believe this thing isn't in stock yet


----------



## legend24

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_95% of my D10 review was done with the stock opamps - yes, enjoy it as it is unmodded.

 See near the bottom of the second post of the thread: UPDATED 2/22 REVIEW 13 USB DAC amp - Predator, Pico, 2/3MOVE, D10 D3 D2 Viper/Boa D1, Lyrix, MicroAmp, Vivid V1, Nuforce, XM5 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio_

 

Well, I was planning to use it mainly for portable use, looks from the review it will fare better if used as an dac, well probably give this a miss

 Mainly because you should see the exchange rate in Singapore here, American dollar has grown strong, probably due to the recession something to do with the monetary policy maybe

 Just to clarify if I wish to change the opamp do I have to desolder and solder another opamp onto it? Or I could used something like this Image Gallery
 and just insert it with ease and change it whenever I want 
 Correct me if I've used the wrong technical terms


----------



## rabor

Could someone please explain why it has a charge on/off switch on the back, since (according to iBasso) it always runs of the battery, even when connected to usb..

_"Dear Sir,

 Thank you for your email.

 Yes, the D10 run off of the battery even when USB is connected. You can just charge the battery when it is low.

 Sincerely

 iBasso Audio"_


----------



## Ney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dublo7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't believe this thing isn't in stock yet
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

They ship them as fast as they can produce them it seems, so they don't have a chance to build up a stock. They shipped mine monday or tusday and I ordered Friday 9 days ago. So if you want one, go ahead and order it, and you will probably have it within a week.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *legend24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ So i was wondering if Im using a ipod touch as source and an IEM, would I be able to enjoy the same type of quality as you guys? *fingers crossed_

 

If you are using an ipod touch as a source, which *doesn't* have an optical or coax out, your money might be better spent on different, smaller, equivalent-sounding amp.


----------



## HiFlight

To extend the life of the battery. One should turn off the charge switch to prevent unnecessary charging whenever the computer is running. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rabor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could someone please explain why it has a charge on/off switch on the back, since (according to iBasso) it always runs of the battery, even when connected to usb..

"Dear Sir,

 Thank you for your email.

 Yes, the D10 run off of the battery even when USB is connected. You can just charge the battery when it is low.

 Sincerely

 iBasso Audio"_


----------



## jamato8

Well at least the battery is a standard 3.7 volt Li ion that you can purchase many places.


----------



## theory_87

isn't it 4.2v?


----------



## sdheda

I am looking for a USB DAC/Amp for my laptop, which is an Asus Eee 1000he. I don't have an optical out, so it will have to be connected through the USB.

 How does the USB input on the D10 compare to the USB input on the Pico and the Predator? If there is only a minute difference, I think I wouldn't mind saving the $200.

 Also, what are some good full-sized cans that will work nicely with this amp. I want something with a lot of detail, so I was thinking of buying the ATH-ESW10JPN. Would this be a good choice with this amp?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am looking for a USB DAC/Amp for my laptop, which is an Asus Eee 1000he. I don't have an optical out, so it will have to be connected through the USB.

 How does the USB input on the D10 compare to the USB input on the Pico and the Predator? If there is only a minute difference, I think I wouldn't mind saving the $200.

 Also, what are some good full-sized cans that will work nicely with this amp. I want something with a lot of detail, so I was thinking of buying the ATH-ESW10JPN. Would this be a good choice with this amp?_

 

Read HeadphoneAddict's review and comparisons on the USB DAC AMP thread, #657.


----------



## immtbiker

I use the ESW-10s almost exclusively (when I'm not using my 9's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## jamato8

The USB on the D10 is very good. They use a good dac and implementation. 

 From iBasso:

 "Regarding to the battery. Just get the high capacity 3.7V Li-ion or Li-polymer batteries. Also, if people do not mind to pay for the shipping cost, they can buy the battery from us."

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the ESW-10s almost exclusively (when I'm not using my 9's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 

Hey, we are hearing the same thing. I guess I don't need to listen, just post how it sounds from time to time. Cool, I have more time for other things. :^)


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 From iBasso:

 "Regarding to the battery. Just get the high capacity 3.7V Li-ion or Li-polymer batteries. Also, if people do not mind to pay for the shipping cost, they can buy the battery from us."


_

 

good info Jam, thanks for that.


----------



## TopQuark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_for those of us who have not yet received our D10's, but want to be prepared...

 with an H-140, what is the "center to center" measurement for the optical connections between these two devices?_

 

2.5cm works on both my H120 and H140.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, 2.5 works, is the very minimum and just works.


----------



## dazzer1975

Just tried the ad8397 with bypassed buffers. It is beautiful, truly refined and very resolving. The sound seems so balanced throughout the frequencies and just sounds so good. I have just been playing around with the opamps and had tried the opa2228 with ad8656 buffers and the highs seemed ever so slightly harsh.

 What's your favourite op-amp and buffer config at the moment and why?


----------



## skydro

So how would stock D10 sound with Yuin PK1-s?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am looking for a USB DAC/Amp for my laptop, which is an Asus Eee 1000he. I don't have an optical out, so it will have to be connected through the USB.

 How does the USB input on the D10 compare to the USB input on the Pico and the Predator? If there is only a minute difference, I think I wouldn't mind saving the $200.

 Also, what are some good full-sized cans that will work nicely with this amp. I want something with a lot of detail, so I was thinking of buying the ATH-ESW10JPN. Would this be a good choice with this amp?_

 

The D10 USB DAC's detail and performance is only a tiny bit behind the Pico's USB DAC, and a bit ahead of the Predator USB.

 It sounds good with ESW10JPN.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *legend24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I was planning to use it mainly for portable use, looks from the review it will fare better if used as an dac, well probably give this a miss

 Mainly because you should see the exchange rate in Singapore here, American dollar has grown strong, probably due to the recession something to do with the monetary policy maybe

 Just to clarify if I wish to change the opamp do I have to desolder and solder another opamp onto it? Or I could used something like this Image Gallery
 and just insert it with ease and change it whenever I want 
 Correct me if I've used the wrong technical terms_

 

I posted in my review that it sounded good with my iMod and analog input.


----------



## legend24

hey guys, I decided to ransack my whole house and found my vintage cd player
 and since I cant the most quality music out of my Mp3, I've decided to look for alternative my cd player, apparently it has a 

 Optical SPDIF Out 
 look like these 






[/IMG]

 Can I get the most out of it through the Coaxial or optical? 
 Is it possible to convert both the ends to either coaxial or optical output?

 Cause the arrangement is that
 Cd player-> The one on the pic-> Menu button->earphones
 I am planning to use those output and connect them to either the optical or coaxial of D10


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *legend24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys, I decided to ransack my whole house and found my vintage cd player
 and since I cant the most quality music out of my Mp3, I've decided to look for alternative my cd player, apparently it has a 

 Optical SPDIF Out 
 look like these 





[/IMG]

 Can I get the most out of it through the Coaxial or optical? 
 Is it possible to convert both the ends to either coaxial or optical output?

 Cause the arrangement is that
 Cd player-> The one on the pic-> Menu button->earphones
 I am planning to use those output and connect them to either the optical or coaxial of D10_

 

You can use an optical with mini connector on one end and toslink on the other, and connect to the D10 and get great sound via D10 DAC. It doesn't do coax unless you buy a box that converts optical to coax, but there is no point in doing that when you can use optical directly.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just tried the ad8397 with bypassed buffers. It is beautiful, truly refined and very resolving. The sound seems so balanced throughout the frequencies and just sounds so good. I have just been playing around with the opamps and had tried the opa2228 with ad8656 buffers and the highs seemed ever so slightly harsh.

 What's your favourite op-amp and buffer config at the moment and why?_

 

so far I'm only happy with AD8397 with bypass buffer and ad8066 with ad8656 buffer config. I'm thinking of trying ad8616 or ad8059 as the buffer for ad8066.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *legend24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I was planning to use it mainly for portable use, looks from the review it will fare better if used as an dac, well probably give this a miss

 Mainly because you should see the exchange rate in Singapore here, American dollar has grown strong, probably due to the recession something to do with the monetary policy maybe

 Just to clarify if I wish to change the opamp do I have to desolder and solder another opamp onto it? Or I could used something like this Image Gallery
 and just insert it with ease and change it whenever I want 
 Correct me if I've used the wrong technical terms_

 

In Singapore, the local dealer is Stereo Electronic. I bought mine off Stereo Electronic when ibasso still enjoying their Chinese New Year holidays. If you do not need the DAC, P3 is a good alternative to look at.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so far I'm only happy with AD8397 with bypass buffer and ad8066 with ad8656 buffer config. I'm thinking of trying ad8616 or ad8059 as the buffer for ad8066._

 

Did you try the AD8656 with bypassed buffers, as that sounds pretty good too? 

 I have been using the LTC6241HV with the stock buffers for the past few days and like it, but I will be trying my AD8599 tomorrow, with a variety of buffers. I need to also try my AD8066 again.


----------



## Navyblue

I wonder how does the D10 perform purely as an amp? Compares to other iBassos like D3 or P3, or other good portable amps like Predator or 3Move?

 You guys would probabaly wonder why I even considered the D10 if I don't need a DAC. I heard the D3 and the P3. To my ears D3 sounds better than P3 in stock form, and since I am considering the D3 I see no reason to exclude other amps with DAC. Though some reports that the P3 improves when opamps ae rolled, P3 users seems to be pretty scarce here.


----------



## Surrealsky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Navyblue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder how does the D10 perform purely as an amp? Compares to other iBassos like D3 or P3, or other good portable amps like Predator or 3Move?

 You guys would probabaly wonder why I even considered the D10 if I don't need a DAC. I heard the D3 and the P3. To my ears D3 sounds better than P3 in stock form, and since I am considering the D3 I see no reason to exclude other amps with DAC. Though some reports that the P3 improves when opamps ae rolled, P3 users seems to be pretty scarce here._

 


 I don't owned the d3 or p3 but i have auditioned it several times. I agree the d3 does sound better in stock form but once you start rolling opamps, it's a different ballgame. Also the d10 performs much better compared to my previous amps in my sig and also the d3 and even p3 with rolled opamps in just it's stock config. My friend who has an 5.5g imod with p51-mustang was amazed with my rig and we exchanged sessions intensively and came to an agreement that we were on toe to toe. However the p51 seems to have a wider soundstage and sounds more airy while the d10 has more vocal and musical presentation.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you try the AD8656 with bypassed buffers, as that sounds pretty good too? 

 I have been using the LTC6241HV with the stock buffers for the past few days and like it, but I will be trying my AD8599 tomorrow, with a variety of buffers. I need to also try my AD8066 again._

 

AD8397 with AD8658 as buffer, the bass seems a little uncontrolled and distorted to my ear. AD8397 by itself, is quite aggressive. ad8599 sound similar to ad8066 but with stronger bass and a little less transparent mid and slightly smaller soundstage.

 All the above finding is my opinion and may not be the same for everyone.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Surrealsky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't owned the d3 or p3 but i have auditioned it several times. I agree the d3 does sound better in stock form but once you start rolling opamps, it's a different ballgame. Also the d10 performs much better compared to my previous amps in my sig and also the d3 and even p3 with rolled opamps in just it's stock config. My friend who has an 5.5g imod with p51-mustang was amazed with my rig and we exchanged sessions intensively and came to an agreement that we were on toe to toe. However the p51 seems to have a wider soundstage and sounds more airy while the d10 has more vocal and musical presentation._

 

have you try rolling D10? imo, SMIV is better than p51 and D10 after all my mod is in the same class as diablo


----------



## trickywombat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *legend24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys, I decided to ransack my whole house and found my vintage cd player
 ...
 Can I get the most out of it through the Coaxial or optical? 
 Is it possible to convert both the ends to either coaxial or optical output?
 ..._

 

The jack on the Left is probably not for a Coaxial digital out. PDCPs had jacks like that for the remote.


----------



## Navyblue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Surrealsky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't owned the d3 or p3 but i have auditioned it several times. I agree the d3 does sound better in stock form but once you start rolling opamps, it's a different ballgame. Also the d10 performs much better compared to my previous amps in my sig and also the d3 and even p3 with rolled opamps in just it's stock config. My friend who has an 5.5g imod with p51-mustang was amazed with my rig and we exchanged sessions intensively and came to an agreement that we were on toe to toe. However the p51 seems to have a wider soundstage and sounds more airy while the d10 has more vocal and musical presentation._

 

Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 May I know what P3 opamp combo that you heard that is better than the D3?

 I find your comment regarding D10 and P51 interesting. I thought the P51 has an intimate vocal presentation, and the D10 is even more so? I don't recall the sound stage of P51 being particularly large too.

 How would you describe the D10 in relative to D3? I find D3 has a wide soundstage. It has a fun sound that somewhat like a surround effect, but not too realistic sounding. And it seems to have a bump somewhere between the middle midrange and upper midrange.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skydro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how would stock D10 sound with Yuin PK1-s?_

 

That is my portable setup using the H1xx optical as a source. I find it to be excellent.


----------



## npcraig

So what are a nice set of full sized cans to use with this? I use my D10 through my optical on my MacBook Pro mainly. Budget at $400ish


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *npcraig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what are a nice set of full sized cans to use with this? I use my D10 through my optical on my MacBook Pro mainly. Budget at $400ish_

 

Maybe a new ATH-ESW10, a recabled new D2000, maybe an HFI780 or Pro 750 with upgraded cable, Grado RS-1 used or RS-2 if you like more mids. HD600 can sound good at normal volumes but doesn't have the punch and power of a desktop amp (or even that of the 3MOVE in high output mode).


----------



## npcraig

When I was listening to music through the optical suddenly it just started to be overtaken by static, I thought it was my phone interfering but now after switching from stock opamp with 8656 buffers to 8656 opamp LMH6643 buffers it now is gone. I got static with stock opamp and bypass buffers too, so is the stock opamp fried or something?


----------



## jamato8

Is the battery charged?


----------



## npcraig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the battery charged?_

 

It charged all night, and now its charging again and I am getting static with the setup that wasn't staticy before (but it is only out of the R bud)


----------



## npcraig

I get no static at all if I use the 8532 as opamp and stock buffers

 EDIT: now that I switched back to stock opamp with 8656 buffers it has no static when I plug in aux in then go back to optical, Ill post if it starts static again.

 Now after 2 hours of no static I get static when going MBP Optical -> D10 -> SE530s, but if I try Sansa Clip/MBP HP -> D10 -> SE530 no static.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I have a bad sysconcept.ca cable, and it gives me static with several different DACs. Time to call Joseph and see what he can do. In the meantime, that might be your problem.


----------



## npcraig

Now plugging optical back in, no static... this is just confusing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 EDIT: But has come back already.


----------



## jamato8

A bad optical cable can cause static, without question. I had one that was wrecked because my portable dropped and yanked on the optical a few time and fractured the conductor.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A bad optical cable can cause static, without question. I had one that was wrecked because my portable dropped and yanked on the optical a few time and fractured the conductor._

 

That's what I said - might be a bad cable. I hurt my cable when my Super Pro DAC707 fell off the table while it was connected to my macbook a while back. Static much of the time but not always.


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, a bad optical cable can cause static.


----------



## npcraig

Well in a twist of events, when the static happens if I switch to AUX it is still fine, but if I switch to USB it has the same static...

 I currently just have it playing through the HP on my MBP to the D10 so that maybe with more burn in it will go away


----------



## coolbluewater

Is the D10 currently available? I'm totally on board with op-amp rolling but Ibasso's website is saying it's still out of stock.

 HeadphoneAddict, great reviews and dedication; I'm getting alot from your efforts - many thanks! But it'll be your fault re: my wallet


----------



## TopQuark

Just place an order even if the site shows out of stock. Some here are getting them in 5 days!


----------



## npcraig

I contacted iBasso and they sent me 3 questions/steps to try. These were my responses, maybe you guys may know something.

_1, does the optical output jack has dust on it, if so, clear it please._
 ---I have used compressed air to clear any dust, the D10 is only a week or so old and I keep it very well kept.

_2, are you using other optical cable? try another one please._
 ---I have tried both the cable that came with the D10 and a mini->toslink cable with my Macbook both produce static sounds. I have also tried different headphones.

_3,, If you have any other device that has the optical out, pleae try it as well._
 ---I tried the other device with the other cord with static still the case. I also tried the USB through my Macbook and it also has static now. Only the AUX IN produces no static.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *npcraig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I contacted iBasso and they sent me 3 questions/steps to try. These were my responses, maybe you guys may know something.

1, does the optical output jack has dust on it, if so, clear it please.
 ---I have used compressed air to clear any dust, the D10 is only a week or so old and I keep it very well kept.

2, are you using other optical cable? try another one please.
 ---I have tried both the cable that came with the D10 and a mini->toslink cable with my Macbook both produce static sounds. I have also tried different headphones.

3,, If you have any other device that has the optical out, pleae try it as well.
 ---I tried the other device with the other cord with static still the case. I also tried the USB through my Macbook and it also has static now. Only the AUX IN produces no static._

 

I forget, are you using the stock opamps? Has it been opened? Are you positive the battery is full?


----------



## npcraig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I forget, are you using the stock opamps? Has it been opened? Are you positive the battery is full?_

 

I have tried the stock opamps but right now I have the 8656 opamp and stock buffers (both stock and 8656 setups have static eventually). Currently I have turned it off to fully charge the battery. The battery was at 100% 13 hours ago and I have been charging it up since the static started too.

 The static starts off very minimal but grows until it is incredibly loud, usually just being present in the left or right side only (left side currently).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I know I got static with my OPA627, and assumed it was a battery issue. Then it happened the first time I tried the AD746, but when I went back to the AD746 a second time a day or two later I didn't have the static.

 Could it be a poorly seated opamp?

 Also, you didn't break off the ground spring under the PCB when putting it back together, right?


----------



## bakhtiar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TopQuark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just place an order even if the site shows out of stock. Some here are getting them in 5 days!_

 

X2. I placed an order and paypaled them the money on March 9, and today, I received DHL Tracking ID. Their website might be no being updated for some time.


----------



## npcraig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know I got static with my OPA627, and assumed it was a battery issue. Then it happened the first time I tried the AD746, but when I went back to the AD746 a second time a day or two later I didn't have the static.

 Could it be a poorly seated opamp?

 Also, you didn't break off the ground spring under the PCB when putting it back together, right?_

 

I tested it again and no static.. yet. I opened it up again the spring is still in place and the opamps seem to be alright, I checked everything and put it back together again and no static yet still.

 iBasso has said that I can send in the D10 back to them and just scan the post office receipt and email it to them and they will send a new one once they get the email. The service really is amazing. I'll let you guys know if the static starts up again.


----------



## npcraig

About 20min of use this time before the static started. It isn't super bad this time though and is fading in and out.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, hmmm there seem to be some quality control issues with the d10, although because it is opened such a lot by so many people this might be a cause too. I think ibassos warranty is great though.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, hmmm there seem to be some quality control issues with the d10, although because it is opened such a lot by so many people this might be a cause too. I think ibassos warranty is great though.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

I've only heard of a couple of D10 going bad, and that has to be out of at least 100 sold.


----------



## Ney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've only heard of a couple of D10 going bad, and that has to be out of at least 100 sold._

 

I have been following this thread since the start, and i have a feeling the bust D10's are still in the below 5% range, which is quite ok for any kind of electronics.


----------



## fyu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolbluewater* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the D10 currently available? I'm totally on board with op-amp rolling but Ibasso's website is saying it's still out of stock.

 HeadphoneAddict, great reviews and dedication; I'm getting alot from your efforts - many thanks! But it'll be your fault re: my wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

as somebody else said. they are currently not in stock, but they are making them very quickly. So they won't ship out the day you order it, but probably in a week.
 they should probably explain that so some people don't wait, or lose potential customers


----------



## lowlevelowl

I ordered mine yesterday from there website. The only kind of confirmation I received was the usual PayPal money transfer receipt. Is this typical? I'm just hoping my order went through correctly since I didn't receive any sort of automated confirmation from iBasso.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2. I placed an order and paypaled them the money on March 9, and today, I received DHL Tracking ID. Their website might be no being updated for some time._

 

hmm - now im wondering! i ordered and paypaled on the 7th, and havent heard back from them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 however, my credit card sure has heard from them...


----------



## bakhtiar

How about email your problems to *service@ibasso.com*. They replied my emails in 1 or 2 days.


----------



## dazzer1975

dont stress about receiving your orders from ibasso, they are just a touch tardy at times when it comes to updating their website or replying via mail on occasion.

 Everyone who has paid for any item from ibasso will receive it, and usually within a weeks time frame.

 as every one keeps saying, they are making orders as they come in, so there isn't some huge backlog and a month waiting time.

 I agree though, updating the website to in stock wouldn't hurt if they more or less are up to speed with everything after their new year hols.


----------



## lowlevelowl

Thanks for the email address. I sent them an inquiry just to make sure they received my order correctly. Now to play the waiting game...


----------



## wuwhere

They must be really busy making D10s and are backlogged.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Most of the time I receive the iBasso amp before I get tracking or a separate confirmation - I've bought a D1, P2, D2 Viper, D2 Boa, D3 Python, T4 and D10 Cobra and never had a problem. When the D2 Viper were not released yet and I pre-ordered Jan 08 and waited a couple of months, but that was expected on a pre-release order.


----------



## lowlevelowl

They must be catching up with demand now. They responded to my email and said my D10 would ship tomorrow (after placing the order yesterday).


----------



## clasam

Is it just me, or does the optical cable have an extremely loose fit?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it just me, or does the optical cable have an extremely loose fit?_

 

It is the toslink, they fit like that, at least in my experience.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it just me, or does the optical cable have an extremely loose fit?_

 

Naw, I just wasn't pushing hard enough. I'm an idiot. If I ever ask such a stupid question, I give anyone permission to reach through the internet and punch me in the face. Just watch the nose.


----------



## mcx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes something like that; or recase the amp myself and shield that properly. wrap ERS paper around the amp but not of course your cellphone or you wont get any calls._

 

When I first got my D10, it got static (sounded like what you get from cell phone EMF, but slightly different), which I assumed was from some nearby equipment (I had a cell phone and a cordless phone near by, including a monitor, CPU, computer speakers, network switch, and a router). Since my desk is a mess with wires going everywhere, and the cables to the D10 were not long enough to move it around, I had to wrap the D10 in tin foil and the static went away. I removed the tin foil just now, and the static is gone, although it could just be my equipment's EMF changing due to usage.


----------



## npcraig

I am throwing in the towel and sending back the D10. iBasso said I just need to scan/take a picture of the USPS receipt showing I shipped it and they will send me a replacement once they get my email with the scan.


----------



## wuwhere

My cellphone sits 3ft away from my D10 and even when it is ringing, I don't get any RFI. My laptop with WI-FI sits inches away and again no RFI.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *npcraig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am throwing in the towel and sending back the D10. iBasso said I just need to scan/take a picture of the USPS receipt showing I shipped it and they will send me a replacement once they get my email with the scan. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Were you rolling opamps/buffers when this started to happen? Just curious.


----------



## bakhtiar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My cellphone sits 3ft away from my D10 and even when it is ringing, I don't get any RFI. My laptop with WI-FI sits inches away and again no RFI._

 

If your mobile phone is in 3G/UMTS mode, most probably D10 or other electronic devices will not effected by the RFI. The worst RFI effects is when mobile phone is in iow 2G signal reception, which, it have to *transmit* with higher Tx power to base station/tower.


----------



## npcraig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Were you rolling opamps/buffers when this started to happen? Just curious._

 

I had rolled in the past, but all this happened just in the middle of listening.


----------



## bakhtiar

Guess what, I just received iBasso D10, and listening to it right now. I ordered it on 2009-03-09, 3 days ago. Very quick delivery.

 Initial impression
 Packaging : So simple and looks cheap. I got all the accesories and currently charging through my Thinkpad T61 USB. 

 0 hours impression with 250+ hours Phonak Audio PFEs, grey filters + medium silicone tips : Low gain mode. Compared to my T61 headphone out and Nuforce Icon Mobile. Volume at 3 o'clock. Stock/default settings. No EQ.

 Micheal Jackson, Bad special edition (2001), FLAC.
 The bass is richer and fuller. Excellent. No sibiliant noticed. 

 Celine Dion : Power of Love, 320 kb/s MP3
 Compare to Nuforce IM, mids/vocal are a bit back. Good treble extension, sound very delicate. 

 Diana Krall :
 How Insensitive : Deeper and more bass quantity. 
 Temptation : Bass sound much more neutral. Very delicious vocal/mids. Treble: no complaint at all. No sibiliant noticed.

 Japanese pop : Yuming, U-miz album. MP3 128 kb/s
 真夏の夜の夢 (Manatsu no yo no yume) : Summer's night dream. 
 Fuller bass, neutral vocal/mids and effortless highs.

 Eagle's Hotel California (live 1994), OGG VBR
 Perfect. smooth, effortless and flowing sounds, from low to highs. Excellent. 

 Initial verdict: No complaint, everthing just perfect. Very good match with PFEs. Nuforce IM also very good at it's price. Compared to D10, IM have forward mids and less bass quantity. I am still like IM, because it have mic input (NE-7Ms) and 2 headphones ports. My wife and I can listen at the same time when watching her favorite "Deperate Housewives" series 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

 Head/Soundstage seem to be larger than Nuforce IM. IMHO, soundstage preceptions are closely related to sound signature. More/deeper bass quantity and laid back mids might give us a larger head/soundstage perception.

 PFEs do excel at certain volume level with a good amp. 

 Finally: I am not an audiophile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but I do appreciate a good sound. My search is over for time being... D10 + PFEs = _imagine it by yourself_





 Thank you.


----------



## wuwhere

Mine settled between 350 - 400hrs. I have almost 500hrs now and it has not changed since.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guess what, I just received iBasso D10, and listening to it right now. I ordered it on 2009-03-09, 3 days ago. Very quick delivery.

 Initial impression
 Packaging : So simple and looks cheap. I got all the accesories and currently charging through my Thinkpad T61 USB. 

 0 hours impression with 250+ hours Phonak Audio PFEs, grey filters + medium silicone tips : Low gain mode. Compared to my T61 headphone out and Nuforce Icon Mobile. Volume at 3 o'clock. Stock/default settings. No EQ.

 Micheal Jackson, Bad special edition (2001), FLAC.
 The bass is richer and fuller. Excellent. No sibiliant noticed. 

 Celine Dion : Power of Love, 320 kb/s MP3
 Compare to Nuforce IM, mids/vocal are a bit back. Good treble extension, sound very delicate. 

 Diana Krall :
 How Insensitive : Deeper and more bass quantity. 
 Temptation : Bass guitar sound much more neutral. Very delicious vocal/mids. Treble: no complaint at all. No sibiliant noticed.

 Japanese pop : Yuming, U-miz album. MP3 128 kb/s
 真夏の夜の夢 (Manatsu no yo no yume) : Spring's night dream. 
 Fuller bass, neutral vocal/mids and effortless highs.

 Eagle's Hotel California (live 1994), OGG VBR
 Perfect. smooth, effortless and flowing sounds, from low to highs. Excellent. 

 Initial verdict: No complaint, everthing just perfect. Very good match with PFEs. Nuforce IM also very good at it's price. Compared to D10, IM have forward mids and less bass quantity. I am still like IM, because it have mic input (NE-7Ms) and 2 headphones ports. My wife and I can listen at the same time when watching her favorite "Deperate Housewives" series 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

 Head/Soundstage seem to be larger than Nuforce IM. IMHO, soundstage preceptions are closely related to sound signature. More/deeper bass quantity and laid back mids might give us a larger head/soundstage perception.

 PFEs do excel at certain volume level with a good amp. 

 Finally: I am not an audiophile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but I do appreciate a good sound. My search is over for time being... D10 + PFEs = imagine it by yourself





 Thank you._

 

Very good impressions - I think you are right on track with them.


----------



## bakhtiar

I just stepped up from entry level headphone amp. iBasso D10 do sound very good even at 0 hours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 RFI isolation test : I fixed my Motorola V3xx network setup to 2G/GSM mode only. Then I browse this website using the builtin browser. This should give a very good ondemand stream of GSM RFI 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 D10 isolation from RFI is poorer than Nuforce IM. It still can pickup my phone's GSM RFI, 2 feet away.

 TQ


----------



## jamato8

You stepped up to a very good amp/dac combination. I enjoy mine on a daily basis.


----------



## bakhtiar

Yes, but a good headphones/IEMs should complete each other. And for me PFEs is VERY GOOD, plenty, plenty of bass. Worth of buying. D10 and PFEs. Since I don't have any high-end IEMs, I cannot comment much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now listening to NE-7Ms. Sounded little bit darker, but fun and not bad at all. I think Nuforce IM is the pefect match for NE-7Ms, where the sound is more neutral.


----------



## deadie

I received my D10 yesterday, and unfortunately, there were a few problems which led me to send it back for a replacement:

 1) The mini 1/8" cable they sent was defective. One side is fine, the other has metal that is peeled away from the plug, and it does not fit into the amp or into the output of an ipod.

 2) The gain switch makes no difference in sound level boost. I am using sensitive Ultimate Ears Super Fi 5 pro IEM

 3) There is a very high pitched whine sound when bending the earphones cable

 4) On both gain settings, with no input, the volume hiss increases, it peaks at 3 o'clock, and then it decreases

 5) The volume knob shakes loose, rattling inside the case, as if there isn't a good mating / tight fit between the board and the case.

 6) Also, the pot is too loose for my taste, wish it was a bit tighter.

 To be fair, the only real problem is with #3 - and that's the deal-breaker. I've never had this problem with any other DAP or amp with my IEM, so it has to be the amp. 

 The rest, I unfortunately attribute to the current state of "Chinese" manufacturing -- high value, not quite there with fit-n-finish. It's not a piece of crap in any way, it's rather nice, but still lags far behind a RSA or Pico.

 First sound impressions through USB were very nice. Solid, without being too forward, nice lush mids, a tiny bit harsh highs, but I expect it to round out with time.

 So far all my communication with them has been good, so I'm eager to see how this customer support issue will be handled. I'm confident that it'll be resolved expediently.


----------



## wolfen68

I would agree with your complaints #2 and 6. I wonder if my gain function is "broken" as well as it makes almost no difference....


----------



## nc8000

No there is very little difference with the gain switch, less than half a step (like from 11:30 to 12 o'clock) on the volume control worth of effect for me with all the phones I have tried. Luckily I don't need it as all my phones are fine at about 12 o'clock on the dial.


----------



## wuwhere

On my D10 with my ER4P, I listen on lo-gain, with my ER4S, I listen on hi-gain. iBasso specifies "2-Setting Gain Switch for impedance matching (+3/10dB)". The reality is, its only a 2-position toggle switch, up or down. So down should really be "Normal" and up should be with additional gain.


----------



## freeride1685

i am very interested in purchasing one of these units and i have a question:

 can i use the headphone out and the line out simultaneously?

 i ask because i want to run some IEMs on the headphone out and a small amp with tactile transducer on the line out, to get back the visceral impact in my listening chair


----------



## El_Doug

just got my D10 today! how ironic that it spent 3 days traveling within China, and only 1 day to go from Hong Kong to my door

 no optical cable yet, so i'm using my H120's line-out into the D10, using it only as an amp. definitely not the worst amp ive ever heard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 edit: wow, i feel lucky - my unit has NONE of the problems deadie is describing (except, of course, noticing that the gain switch makes a barely noticeable difference). i wouldnt stand for it if there was rattling or significant hiss!


----------



## Nocturnal310

can any share opinions on the DAC of D10 compared with other iBasso's like D2 Boa?

 i couldnt find much comments on that


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freeride1685* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am very interested in purchasing one of these units and i have a question:

 can i use the headphone out and the line out simultaneously?

 i ask because i want to run some IEMs on the headphone out and a small amp with tactile transducer on the line out, to get back the visceral impact in my listening chair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If you are using the optical, coax or USB as your digital input, you should be able to use both simultaneously, i.e., connect your hp to the hp out and the aux out to your amp.


----------



## freeride1685

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are using the optical, coax or USB as your digital input, you should be able to use both simultaneously, i.e., connect your hp to the hp out and the aux out to your amp._

 


 ahhhh so good so good. now i just have to find a chair worthy of my constant attention LOL


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nocturnal310* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can any share opinions on the DAC of D10 compared with other iBasso's like D2 Boa?

 i couldnt find much comments on that_

 

HeadphoneAddict did in his review of the D10.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nocturnal310* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can any share opinions on the DAC of D10 compared with other iBasso's like D2 Boa?

 i couldnt find much comments on that_

 

I find that the dac in the D10 is more refined with better detail, separation of instruments and voices and a very natural and enjoyable dynamic range. The spatial presentation of the recording is also better represented.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would agree with your complaints #2 and 6. I wonder if my gain function is "broken" as well as it makes almost no difference...._

 

mines exactly the same too.


----------



## jamato8

I have written to iBasso about the gain. I understood it was going to be changed. There is very little "gain" change when the gain switch is moved to greater gain. I would either start out at a lower gain for IEM's or just increase the gain for harder to drive headphones, though that doesn't increase the power out but it can help with more volume if the reserve isn't being used to the max.


----------



## Evergreen

It appears to me that a change in the gain switch has a more pronounced effect if the D-10 is powered off first.


----------



## tracyrick

iBasso just returned my D1 to me with supposedly a gain change from +10db stock to +3db that I requested. There is no gain switch on the D1 - this change is permanent. Using my SE530's (very sensitive) I think there is a very slight difference. I think I have to turn up the volume a little more (it's at about 20-25%, just barely on) and I think the channel imbalance at the lowest volume setting is gone.

 I'll have to do some more listening, but it's tough because I'm going off memory of the old setting. The net outcome appears to be very little change, if any. I was assuming going from 10db to 3db would make a bigger difference...

 Does anyone have a nice turtorial on gain and what these +3db and +10db signify? Is it different for different amps, or are these universal measurements, where going from 10 to 3 should be much different as it relates to volume pot positioning? 

 Separately, they did a nice job fixing my input jacks that had gotten loose somehow after over a year of frequent use (and maybe abuse from cord torque).


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is very little "gain" change when the gain switch is moved to greater gain._

 

Certainly not 7 dB different.


----------



## jamato8

It is more like a couple of db at best. I hope they change this and make it useful.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find that the dac in the D10 is more refined with better detail, separation of instruments and voices and a very natural and enjoyable dynamic range. The spatial presentation of the recording is also better represented._

 

Agreed. It is difficult to hear the slight difference in USB DAC of the D10 vs Pico and the D10 is very close, but it's easier to hear the D10 optical beat the Pico's USB DAC when using 23/96 lossless files.

 In my D3 vs Pico review I found the D3 was almost as good as the Pico DAC, but the D10 seems to come even closer via USB or Opticla.

 See post #1 and #2: UPDATED 2/22 REVIEW 13 USB DAC amp - Predator, Pico, 2/3MOVE, D10 D3 D2 Viper/Boa D1, Lyrix, MicroAmp, Vivid V1, Nuforce, XM5 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are using the optical, coax or USB as your digital input, you should be able to use both simultaneously, i.e., connect your hp to the hp out and the aux out to your amp._

 

No, the D10 only outputs through one or the other, but not both at the same time. If I plug in a mini to the line out, it shuts off the headphone out.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Right now it seems to me like the gain switch takes it from +3 to +5 with the LTC6241HV opamp, but I wonder if it seemed to to be different with different opamp combos. 

 The gain or output right now is sufficient in high gain with HD600, but no where near as loud or punchy as a 3MOVE or Vivid V1 with HD600. With everything else it can play louder than I can stand. Still, I plan to try the AD8599 tonight.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed. It is difficult to hear the slight difference in USB DAC of the D10 vs Pico and the D10 is very close, but it's easier to hear the D10 optical beat the Pico's USB DAC when using 23/96 lossless files.

 In my D3 vs Pico review I found the D3 was almost as good as the Pico DAC, but the D10 seems to come even closer via USB or Opticla.

 See post #1 and #2: UPDATED 2/22 REVIEW 13 USB DAC amp - Predator, Pico, 2/3MOVE, D10 D3 D2 Viper/Boa D1, Lyrix, MicroAmp, Vivid V1, Nuforce, XM5 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio



 No, the D10 only outputs through one or the other, but not both at the same time. If I plug in a mini to the line out, it shuts off the headphone out._

 

You are right! I guess I should have tried it first. As soon as a cable is plugged into the AUX IN/OUT, HP OUT is disabled.


----------



## immtbiker

iBasso says that using the line out disables the headphone jack. I suppose if it didn't, the unit would be defective.


----------



## jamato8

With just me in the house I can listen to my open phones. I haven't listened with the HD650's and the D10 for some time. The D10 really brings the 650's to life. On live Grateful Dead stuff they are clean and alive with sound.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Tonight I am using the HiFlight "iQube Killer" opamp set - AD8599/AD8656. It sounds pretty darn nice. I've only tried a couple of phones with it so far, so I will report my findings over the next few days as I try out a variety of headphones and IEM with it.

 I am trying to get my Qinpu A-3 tube amp review done soon, so I might be a little slow reporting on this.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tonight I am using the HiFlight "iQube Killer" opamp set - AD8599/AD8656. It sounds pretty darn nice. I've only tried a couple of phones with it so far, so I will report my findings over the next few days as I try out a variety of headphones and IEM with it.

 I am trying to get my Qinpu A-3 tube amp review done soon, so I might be a little slow reporting on this._

 

X2 with AD8599/AD8656 just now. I had over 500hrs with the stock opamp/buffers.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I have over 750 hours on my D10, as I burned it in for over 380 hours with the stock opamps and another 20 with other opamps by the end of my review. It seemed done changing by the end of the review, so i was ready to roll opamps. It was up to about 420 hours by the time my IE8 arrived 3 days after the review was done, and I've put another 340 hours on it with burning in my Sennheiser IE8.


----------



## jamato8

I have the opamp, I just need to solder it on a board so I guess that will be next in order. 

 What is better or different with it over the stock configuration?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the opamp, I just need to solder it on a board so I guess that will be next in order. 

 What is better or different with it over the stock configuration?_

 

I only have about one hour so far. The weird thing is I prefer lo-gain and just crank up the volume on my ER4S. It is slightly warmer than stock.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the opamp, I just need to solder it on a board so I guess that will be next in order. 

 What is better or different with it over the stock configuration?_

 

I haven't had enough time with AD8599 LR/AD8656 buffer yet, as I just put it in tonight - It's very neutral and transparent and open and crisp sounding, but less warm and inviting. Some may be due to the 8656 buffers. It sounded great with Westone 3, Sennheiser HD600 and IE8. 

 But, after spending an hour with IE8 in my ears and acclimating to their sound with the D10, and then anything I put in my ears sounded a little bright with the AD8599/AD8656. I didn't have that experience with the LTC6241HV that has been in the D10 with the stock buffers for a few days.

 If the AD8599 with AD8656 buffers is like an iQube, then it reminds me why I have avoided the iQube based on the descriptions of it's sound. I like a portable amp that replicates what I hear with my Woo WA6 and Single Power amps (D10 stock, Predator, 3MOVE, Pico, XM5). I may try this with the stock buffers tomorrow or Saturday, and also compare it again to the AD8066 with stock buffers and AD8656 buffers. And, I need to retry the AD8656 and AD8397 with bypassed buffers again. I still can't settle on one opamp combo yet, but there are several I have liked.

 Oh, and I worked out a trade + cash for an RSA Mustang P-51. That should get interesting.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Well, I am gonna have to change the opamp or buffers because I just don't like the combo with my ES3X - it sounds too bright, and it's almost sounding like my Nuforce Icon Mobile (except the for D10 DAC's greater detail and space over the Nuforce). 

 I think this opamp combo is meant for darker sounding headphones, but it makes the D10 sound like an Icon Mobile. If you have a Sennheiser IE8 this is THE opamp combo to try. Which is interesting timing since just I posted earlier today that the IE8 needed a bright forward amp like the Nuforce or Vivid V1, and now this makes the D10 sound like one of those.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't had enough time with AD8599 LR/AD8656 buffer yet, as I just put it in tonight - It's very neutral and transparent and open and crisp sounding, but less warm and inviting. Some may be due to the 8656 buffers. It sounded great with Westone 3, Sennheiser HD600 and IE8. 

 But, after spending an hour with IE8 in my ears and acclimating to their sound with the D10, and then anything I put in my ears sounded a little bright with the AD8599/AD8656. I didn't have that experience with the LTC6241HV that has been in the D10 with the stock buffers for a few days.

 If the AD8599 with AD8656 buffers is like an iQube, then it reminds me why I have avoided the iQube based on the descriptions of it's sound. I like a portable amp that replicates what I hear with my Woo WA6 and Single Power amps (D10 stock, Predator, 3MOVE, Pico, XM5). I may try this with the stock buffers tomorrow or Saturday, and also compare it again to the AD8066 with stock buffers and AD8656 buffers. And, I need to retry the AD8656 and AD8397 with bypassed buffers again. I still can't settle on one opamp combo yet, but there are several I have liked.

 Oh, and I worked out a trade + cash for an RSA Mustang P-51. That should get interesting._

 

With the gain switch in the up position it sounds bright. In the down position it gets dark. Bass is not as deep as the stock.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Well, I like the AD8599 better with the stock buffers back in, instead of the AD8656 buffers. 

 So I will try it for a while this way with a few different IEM and headphones over the next day or two. I'll get a feel for the sound, and then go back compare it to stock ADA4841-2 as well as to the AD8066 and LTC6241HV that I also like (all with stock buffers).


----------



## El_Doug

for those of you who ordered from sysconcept, how long did the package take to arrive? i'm not really concerned at this point, just anxious, i suppose

 they emailed me stating the cable had been shipped on Monday at 9:30am, yet here I am on Saturday, still listening to the headphone-out on my H120 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 is Canada Post Small Packet usually this slow?


----------



## jamato8

It take 5 days or so. I have had it take 6 or 7.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I like the AD8599 better with the stock buffers back in, instead of the AD8656 buffers. 

 So I will try it for a while this way with a few different IEM and headphones over the next day or two. I'll get a feel for the sound, and then go back compare it to stock ADA4841-2 as well as to the AD8066 and LTC6241HV that I also like (all with stock buffers)._

 

Is bass better?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is bass better?_

 

The bass that I lost with the AD8656 buffers mostly came back with the stock buffers, so the 8599 still synergizes well with the bass heavy IE8 but also gets along better with my other phones. I am still not decided on this one for my other phones, but I can say the AD8599 is the best choice in the D10 for the IE8 - hands down.

 I have to finish a review on the Qinpu A-3 this weekend before I can spend more time with this D10 rolling.


----------



## HiFlight

Just to throw in another combo for the D10/IE8, try the THS4032 with AD8616 buffers. Big soundstage, accurate imaging. Good detail without being overbalanced anywhere in the spectrum.


----------



## jamato8

I will try that today Ron.

 Ok, VEry nice. 

 A large open soundstage and fast dynamic bass. Good call Ron!

 I also notice the mids are very nice. Natural but rounded and not at all recessed.

 I do notice a possible slight hardness to the upper mids. Time needed to know for sure.

 When compare this to the SR71A I hear more fullness on the 71A to the mids. It is more tactile.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I tried the THS4032 with stock buffers and IE8 and it is nice with the IE8, but still a little cool with other phones. 

 The AD8066 also works with IE8 and seems a little warmer with other IEM like ES3X - but it is not quite as detailed as the THS4032 nor as full bodied as the ADA4841-2 or LTC6241HV.

 I think that the IE8's requirements on a headphone amp are different than most other IEM, and it is tough to find opamps that serve them all when the IE8 are in the mix.


----------



## jamato8

What is the stock configuration the D10 comes with? I can't remember for sure which opamps. Too many choices but I do remember the sound and like it as one of the best. 

 Ok, I think I got it figured out. I find the original configuration really blooms in all frequency areas.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the stock configuration the D10 comes with? I can't remember for sure which opamps. Too many choices but I do remember the sound and like it as one of the best. 

 Ok, I think I got it figured out. I find the original configuration really blooms in all frequency areas._

 

Stock is ADA4841-2 with AD8532 buffers (originially thought it was AD708).

 The LTC6241HV I have in it right now is similar in a full and detailed spacious kind of way. I haven't tried this back to back with stock, although I am very happy to leave this in the D10 (also there is less iPhone buzz). I think stock is fantastic, and the AD8656 opamp or LTC6241HV in it are variations on a theme.


----------



## jamato8

They all have their own charm. I compare to the SR-71A and P-51 and they are all good.

 Thank for the update on the original opamps. That is what I picked out but I wasn't totally sure. They do sound good. 

 I am finding that the D10 powers the K701 fine. I borrowed a pair as I have read how hard they are to drive and while the bass is light, with the Lisa III and my Woo 6, the D10 has no problem driving them.

 edit: I am coming to the conclusion that the original opamps, that come stock with the D10, sound the best. I find the sound very refined and yet dynamic and balanced in all frequency extremes.


----------



## abitdeef

^ I haven't even received my T4 yet and you guys are making me want a D10. Op rolling sounds like a lot of fun, I love to tinker


----------



## HK_sends

Alrighty Gents (and Ladies),

 The D10 or the X5? In this case I will be focusing more on the DAC for my laptop. However, rolling opamps will be fun too.

 Thanx in advance...

 -HK sends


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alrighty Gents (and Ladies),

 The D10 or the X5? In this case I will be focusing more on the DAC for my laptop. However, rolling opamps will be fun too.

 Thanx in advance...

 -HK sends_

 

X5? Do you mean XM5?

 DAC: The D10's DAC is fantastic - the XM5's DAC is good (like 3MOVE and Predator) but is bettered by the D10 and Pico DAC. If I listen to the D10/Pico/XM5/3MOVE/Predator via their own internal DAC and then feed them from the D10 or Pico DAC, the improved resolution, ambience, air and space of the D10 and Pico DAC is clear. Those two produce the most transparent window into the music.

 AMP: The D10 amp section is clear and detailed and warm, and inviting - very much like the Predator. It's like putting the Pico DAC section in the Predator. And it can be tuned to stay warm with LTC6241 or AD8656 opamp, or to sound cooler with AD8066 or AD8599. The XM5 amp section is also very good, and also a little more powerful than the D10 (and Predator) when teamed with the Senn HD600. The XM5 has the opamp rolling and can be punchier for HD600 with AD8397 (a special 1:2 adapter), and smoother and more refined and spacious with a pair of AD8065. The options with rolling are probably limitless with these two. Add to the XM5 the extras like bass boost, treble boost, stereo blend (not really a crossfeed) impedance and gain, voltmeter, flashlight mode - and I really like it, but I really wish it had the D10's DAC. 

 My rankings in my reviews of these amps are all with using the internal DAC of the amp, and I haven't spent enough time with any of them just as an amp- to get a proper ranking of only the amp sections. I will say that based on the sound of the amp only of the Predator, Pico, D10, 3MOVE and XM5 they are all top tier portable amps. If you plan to use it as a DAC most of the time, the D10 and Pico are going to be more transparent because of their DAC.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X5? Do you mean XM5?

 DAC: The D10's DAC is fantastic - the XM5's DAC is good (like 3MOVE and Predator) but is bettered by the D10 and Pico DAC. If I listen to the D10/Pico/XM5/3MOVE/Predator via their own internal DAC and then feed them from the D10 or Pico DAC, the improved resolution, ambience, air and space of the D10 and Pico DAC is clear. Those two produce the most transparent window into the music.

 AMP: The D10 amp section is clear and detailed and warm, and inviting - very much like the Predator. It's like putting the Pico DAC section in the Predator. And it can be tuned to stay warm with LTC6241 or AD8656 opamp, or to sound cooler with AD8066 or AD8599. The XM5 amp section is also very good, and also a little more powerful than the D10 (and Predator) when teamed with the Senn HD600. The XM5 has the opamp rolling and can be punchier for HD600 with AD8397 (a special 1:2 adapter), and smoother and more refined and spacious with a pair of AD8065. The options with rolling are probably limitless with these two. Add to the XM5 the extras like bass boost, treble boost, stereo blend (not really a crossfeed) impedance and gain, voltmeter, flashlight mode - and I really like it, but I really wish it had the D10's DAC. 

 My rankings in my reviews of these amps are all with using the internal DAC of the amp, and I haven't spent enough time with any of them just as an amp- to get a proper ranking of only the amp sections. I will say that based on the sound of the amp only of the Predator, Pico, D10, 3MOVE and XM5 they are all top tier portable amps. If you plan to use it as a DAC most of the time, the D10 and Pico are going to be more transparent because of their DAC._

 

Thanks for the info! Yes, I meant XM5 (it was first thing in the morning...my eyes were still closed). I have two real good RSA amps (the Mustang and Blackbird) so for pure musical enjoyment, I am covered. But for Laptop use, I need a DAC because I watch a lot of video when I am on business trips. So with an excellent DAC like the D10 (that has a good amp thrown in to boot), I should be covered, right?

 While I like the tweakability of the XM5 (I already have two XM4s...of course without DAC), for the relative price, I'm leaning towards the D10.

 -HK sends


----------



## PG21

Am excited to get mine!


----------



## lowlevelowl

D10 arrived today. Sounds quite nice out of the box. This is my first iBasso product, I was impressed with the amount of accessories they include... pleather bag, additional opamps, optical cable, usb cable, ac adapter, and mini-to-mini cable. Everything was packaged well also. 

 Only 2 hours into burn-in so I won't comment too much on the sound, but it sounds excellent so far with my D2000s. Haven't tried it with my other headphones yet.


----------



## iszatso

Another guy who rushed out to the porch today to sign for a little package...

 Ditto whatever is being said about the D10. Since I can only compare it to my x-can v3 with PF mods and PSU and can say beyond a doubt out of the box it is challenging and surpassing the x-can with about 2 hours of break-in. I'm feeding it with an h120 via optical with cable from sysconcepts and the sheen and quickness and clarity of the snares is amazing. 

 On the shure 530's volume on 4 with low gain set is enough. (Too many Edgar and Johnny Winter concerts.) With the Denon 7000's, pushing the volume up to 4 or 5 gives a nice clear rendition of the flac music. As with most flacs, variations in the recording are noticed acuitly, lousy recording, lousy rendition through the dac/amp.

 As the unit opens up, I am sure I will be more and more pleased. For the price range and what it does it is a steal at the price. Thanks to the guru's for pointing me in the right direction in setting up a system that gives good bang for the buck.

 I'll let the others roll the opamps for awhile while I'll let it settle in for 300-400 hours and read what their impressions are, but I think it will be hard to beat the stock sound eminating from the unit using the shures and Denon's. 

 Even though it says they are on vacation, don't hesitate to order one if you are so inclined. Took about 10 days from initially placing my order.

 Again, I am one happy camper. More to follow, as like fine wine, the ibasso D10 ages.

 peace.


----------



## deadie

... following up on my return of the D10 as detailed in this earlier post.

 Well, kind of a bummer ending.

 I sent back the D10 and they could not duplicate the problem I had with the high pitched whine with my IEM. Further, they contend that the "gain" switch functioned perfectly at "3/10db".

 I was paypal'd my refund today.

 So again, I'm kind of bummed by how this turned out. I really liked the sound of the D10, and still want to own one. But not quite sure what to think about the high pitched whine I had using my IEMs - that's pretty much the deal-breaker as I can live with the "gain / no-gain" situation.

 To their credit, my questions were followed up quickly, and they issued my refund quickly as well. 

 Get another one, or just plunk down for a Pico... what to do, what to do.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deadie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... following up on my return of the D10 as detailed in this earlier post.

 Well, kind of a bummer ending.

 I sent back the D10 and they could not duplicate the problem I had with the high pitched whine with my IEM. Further, they contend that the "gain" switch functioned perfectly at "3/10db".

 I was paypal'd my refund today.

 So again, I'm kind of bummed by how this turned out. I really liked the sound of the D10, and still want to own one. But not quite sure what to think about the high pitched whine I had using my IEMs - that's pretty much the deal-breaker as I can live with the "gain / no-gain" situation.

 To their credit, my questions were followed up quickly, and they issued my refund quickly as well. 

 Get another one, or just plunk down for a Pico... what to do, what to do._

 

That's too bad. I think the D10 is better than the Pico.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deadie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... following up on my return of the D10 as detailed in this earlier post.

 Well, kind of a bummer ending.

 I sent back the D10 and they could not duplicate the problem I had with the high pitched whine with my IEM. Further, they contend that the "gain" switch functioned perfectly at "3/10db".

 I was paypal'd my refund today.

 So again, I'm kind of bummed by how this turned out. I really liked the sound of the D10, and still want to own one. But not quite sure what to think about the high pitched whine I had using my IEMs - that's pretty much the deal-breaker as I can live with the "gain / no-gain" situation.

 To their credit, my questions were followed up quickly, and they issued my refund quickly as well. 

 Get another one, or just plunk down for a Pico... what to do, what to do._

 

Haven't people fixed problems like that before with impedance adapters of some sort? I think raising or lowering the impedance of IEMs would fix that hissing quality...no expert though.


----------



## h.rav

Is D10 the only DAC/AMP that features optical out?


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is D10 the only DAC/AMP that features optical out?_

 

it only has an optical-in, not an optical-out


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deadie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... following up on my return of the D10 as detailed in this earlier post.

 Well, kind of a bummer ending.

 I sent back the D10 and they could not duplicate the problem I had with the high pitched whine with my IEM. Further, they contend that the "gain" switch functioned perfectly at "3/10db".

 I was paypal'd my refund today.

 So again, I'm kind of bummed by how this turned out. I really liked the sound of the D10, and still want to own one. But not quite sure what to think about the high pitched whine I had using my IEMs - that's pretty much the deal-breaker as I can live with the "gain / no-gain" situation.

 To their credit, my questions were followed up quickly, and they issued my refund quickly as well. 

 Get another one, or just plunk down for a Pico... what to do, what to do._

 

You got the whine regardless of source or opamp combo?


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it only has an optical-in, not an optical-out_

 

Ah yes, that's what I meant


----------



## deadie

The high pitch was present when using USB source - the primary source / usage for this amp. I didn't have a coax / toslink source to use at the time.

 Didn't open up unit and mess with the opamps, as I wanted to keep it stock all the way if I needed to send it back.

 The high pitch would come and go when moving around my IEM cable - horizontally / vertically. Could the cable act as a RF "receiver" and pass along a high pitch sound?

 But again, I've used my Super Fi Pro 5's with many other DAPs / PCs / iPods and this is the first time I've come across this issue.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You got the whine regardless of source or opamp combo?_


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deadie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The high pitch was present when using USB source - the primary source / usage for this amp. I didn't have a coax / toslink source to use at the time.

 Didn't open up unit and mess with the opamps, as I wanted to keep it stock all the way if I needed to send it back.

 The high pitch would come and go when moving around my IEM cable - horizontally / vertically. Could the cable act as a RF "receiver" and pass along a high pitch sound?

 But again, I've used my Super Fi Pro 5's with many other DAPs / PCs / iPods and this is the first time I've come across this issue._

 

Yes, it would seem you were getting interference. The cable can act/does act as an antenna. Also the stock opamp can be more prone to this interference. The 8066 less so and it sounds good. Too bad as the D10 is a joy. I haven't even been listening to my home amp lately. After 700 plus hours on the amp there are refinements that make the amp, for me, just plain exciting.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I haven't turned my WA6 on in weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Well, I did yesterday to compare to a Qinpu A-3 amp I am reviewing...


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah yes, that's what I meant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The older iBasso D1 has the same feature set as the D10 but is a fair bit bigger and the usb section is clearly poorer than the D10. The HeadRoom micro has (as far as I remember) also got optical in.


----------



## x3sphere

I have a D2 Boa right now... sounds great with my HD650 but would it be worth upgrading to the D10? I figure I can sell the Boa for around $140-150... but again, not sure if it'd be worth it.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x3sphere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a D2 Boa right now... sounds great with my HD650 but would it be worth upgrading to the D10? I figure I can sell the Boa for around $140-150... but again, not sure if it'd be worth it._

 

Yes, it is worth it, and there are several opamps I've posted about that work well with HD600 too (same ones as for the IE8).


----------



## x3sphere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, it is worth it, and there are several opamps I've posted about that work well with HD600 too (same ones as for the IE8)._

 

Great, thanks for the info. I'll be ordering a D10 once they are back in stock then


----------



## nc8000

Just go and order, they are shipping orders as fast as they build but don't seem to update the web site


----------



## lowlevelowl

I'm continuing to be impressed by this little marvel. A/Bing it with my little Little Dot I+, granted an entry level desktop hybrid amp, the D10 is preferred to my ears. I'm hoping once I get 100+ hours on it like some of the others in this thread it'll really shine even more. Bang for the buck, I'm quite pleased with my purchase.


----------



## kayser

Hi,

 Is anyone using the ibasso d10 + iriver h120/140 (via optical) with westone 3? Is there a considerable change in SQ compared with the HP-out? I'm asking 'cause I've recently purchased an iriver hp140 and now waiting for the ibasso. I expect the treble to become sharper, cleaner, more transparent. I also expect the sound to be more detailed. So, what do you think? Will I be satisfied? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What is your impression on the ibasso d10 (compared with the Mustang P-51 or Pico, for example)?

 I'll be grateful if you report me via PM, otherwise I have little chance to find the answers in this huge topic. Thanks.


----------



## obentou

I'd also like to know, so post a reply here instead


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kayser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 Is anyone using the ibasso d10 + iriver h120/140 (via optical) with westone 3? Is there a considerable change in SQ compared with the HP-out? I'm asking 'cause I've recently purchased an iriver hp140 and now waiting for the ibasso. I expect the treble to become sharper, cleaner, more transparent. I also expect the sound to be more detailed. So, what do you think? Will I be satisfied? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What is your impression on the ibasso d10 (compared with the Mustang P-51 or Pico, for example)?

 I'll be grateful if you report me via PM, otherwise I have little chance to find the answers in this huge topic. Thanks._

 

Not difficult for the D10 to excel there. Even the older D1 via optical out of the H140 is an upgrade to the HP out, while the H140 headphone out is an upgrade to a 5.5G iPod video headphone out.


----------



## PG21

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x3sphere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great, thanks for the info. I'll be ordering a D10 once they are back in stock then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Upon research just buy it. Just like said before, they never update it (still says out of stock due to new years vacation). They ship out whenever they make new ones.


----------



## Dublo7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x3sphere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a D2 Boa right now... sounds great with my HD650 but would it be worth upgrading to the D10? I figure I can sell the Boa for around $140-150... but again, not sure if it'd be worth it._

 

You can drive HD650's with a D2 Boa? I find that suspect.


----------



## qusp

hey guys, well i'm getting closer and closer to buying one of these. I know you are probably getting sick of my umming and ahhing, but a couple of questions... 

 1. how much do you have to spend on a decent selection of extra op-amps?? including a couple of the more sought after/rarer pricier ones. shorter battery life doesnt bother me so much as I have a portable lith-ion battery pack that will supply enough juice to run both dac and iriver H120 for a full day without any drama. so say 4-5 extra pairs including a browndog for duals. so how does the AD797 sound in there?? anyone tried it?? I suppose I dont need too many high power buffers as if I need high power I will probably just use the lineout function with my lisa

 2. whats with this gain issue. is the high gain setting really that small an amout different than the low gain that you can hardly tell the difference?? because 3 to 10db should be quite a noticeable difference. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 3. which op-amps tend to be prone to interference in the D10??

 thanks in advance.. pretty sure ill be putting my pico up for sale (amp only) but only if I grow to impatient


----------



## obentou

Well if it helps, I ordered one and got my tracking number today, lol.

 For those who have ordered, which shipping service do they go by? I got this number and plugged it into China EMS and it didn't work.

 EDIT: nevermind, it is DHL. Wow, never had anything shipped to me using this method, I read all these scam stories with DHL and etc.... anyone care to share how long their shipment took to arrive?


----------



## Surrealsky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x3sphere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a D2 Boa right now... sounds great with my HD650 but would it be worth upgrading to the D10? I figure I can sell the Boa for around $140-150... but again, not sure if it'd be worth it._

 

Definitely worth it, the difference is like day and night.


----------



## Surrealsky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kayser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 Is anyone using the ibasso d10 + iriver h120/140 (via optical) with westone 3? Is there a considerable change in SQ compared with the HP-out? I'm asking 'cause I've recently purchased an iriver hp140 and now waiting for the ibasso. I expect the treble to become sharper, cleaner, more transparent. I also expect the sound to be more detailed. So, what do you think? Will I be satisfied? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 What is your impression on the ibasso d10 (compared with the Mustang P-51 or Pico, for example)?

 I'll be grateful if you report me via PM, otherwise I have little chance to find the answers in this huge topic. Thanks._

 


 Yes there is, i was using the mini cable that came along with the d10 via my iriver h120 and i'm already amazed with with sound quality BUT i was floored once i tried the optical out with my sysconcept u-cables.


----------



## Surrealsky

And also a cheap optical cable is cheaper and better than an expensive LOD.


----------



## x3sphere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dublo7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can drive HD650's with a D2 Boa? I find that suspect._

 

Granted I haven't tried out the HD650s with an amp other than the Boa, but they seem to be driven fine. By fine I mean that I can turn the volume up to an listenable level with no clipping, bass is punchy at times, and music with a lot of dynamics (e.g. Radiohead) is handed fairly well - compared to running them unamped, anyway. I feel there is room for improvement though. Bass could be more controlled, same with the lows and highs. Highs especially, as they are rolled off.

 Anyway I have placed an order on the D10, looking forward to receiving it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Surrealsky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Definitely worth it, the difference is like day and night. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Awesome, that's what I like to hear!


----------



## PG21

Bought a D10 2 days ago and haven't gotten an email, they need to make these faster!


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well if it helps, I ordered one and got my tracking number today, lol.

 For those who have ordered, which shipping service do they go by? I got this number and plugged it into China EMS and it didn't work.

 EDIT: nevermind, it is DHL. Wow, never had anything shipped to me using this method, I read all these scam stories with DHL and etc.... anyone care to share how long their shipment took to arrive?_

 

You have NOTHING to worry about


----------



## jamato8

I have all kinds of opamps and frankly, I prefer the stock ones. They offer more interference possibilities, though I have experienced none. There is the AD8066 chip that offers a little wider soundstage and less prone to interference. 

 The gain is very little. iBasso is aware of this now but I guess the design will not change right now. I haven't found it to be a problem but it depends upon your phones. It might help in driving the HD650 to a real loud level but I don't want to ruin my ears. 

 I would not spend a bunch of money on opamps, you don't need to for great sound. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys, well i'm getting closer and closer to buying one of these. I know you are probably getting sick of my umming and ahhing, but a couple of questions... 

 1. how much do you have to spend on a decent selection of extra op-amps?? including a couple of the more sought after/rarer pricier ones. shorter battery life doesnt bother me so much as I have a portable lith-ion battery pack that will supply enough juice to run both dac and iriver H120 for a full day without any drama. so say 4-5 extra pairs including a browndog for duals. so how does the AD797 sound in there?? anyone tried it?? I suppose I dont need too many high power buffers as if I need high power I will probably just use the lineout function with my lisa

 2. whats with this gain issue. is the high gain setting really that small an amout different than the low gain that you can hardly tell the difference?? because 3 to 10db should be quite a noticeable difference. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 3. which op-amps tend to be prone to interference in the D10??

 thanks in advance.. pretty sure ill be putting my pico up for sale (amp only) but only if I grow to impatient 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## obentou

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have NOTHING to worry about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







_

 

Hmm great, Which means I should get it Friday! Thanks a lot!


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have all kinds of opamps and frankly, I prefer the stock ones. They offer more interference possibilities, though I have experienced none. There is the AD8066 chip that offers a little wider soundstage and less prone to interference. 

 The gain is very little. iBasso is aware of this now but I guess the design will not change right now. I haven't found it to be a problem but it depends upon your phones. It might help in driving the HD650 to a real loud level but I don't want to ruin my ears. 

 I would not spend a bunch of money on opamps, you don't need to for great sound._

 

Thanks Jon,

 all the same I think I will grab a few extras, just for kicks.


----------



## HiFlight

I agree with John, in that iBasso has provided a very nice selection of opamps, and it is not necessary to buy a whole bunch of new ones, unless you are an inveterate tinkerer such as myself. 

 The opamps are only a small part of the entire circuit, and will only make very subtle changes in the sound. They are able to shift the SQ slightly from more detail to more "warmth" and vice-versa as well as the ability to make subtle changes in soundstage and imaging. 

 Changing opamps is, at times, beneficial in matching a particular source or set of phones to ones personal preferences in sound, but as I have repeatedly stated, there is no one "best" combination of opamps for everyone. 

 I always recommend that one listen to the stock opamps long enough for the amp to "burn-in" and also long enough to become familiar with the stock sound. 

 Because of its low supply voltage, the D10 is somewhat limited in the number of different opamps that will function properly. One can see this list on page 30 of this thread. I am sure that there are more than are on the list, however these are the only ones I have personally tested. 

 For those who really want to play with opamps, the iBasso P3 is an experimenters dream, as LR, buffers, and ground opamps can all be changed. There are almost an infinite number of combinations possible for this amp, many of which produce, IMO, world-class sound. iBasso themselves state that the P3 has the best amplifier circuit of any of their products. I agree with their assessment. 

 If one is not comfortable working with small electronic circuits, the D10 can be enjoyed in its stock configuration without running the risk of damage by incorrect installation of opamps.

 Although iBasso is gracious enough to provide a very nice kit of opamps to roll, please keep in mind that any damage done to the amp while playing with the opamps is not covered under warranty. 






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have all kinds of opamps and frankly, I prefer the stock ones. They offer more interference possibilities, though I have experienced none. There is the AD8066 chip that offers a little wider soundstage and less prone to interference. 

 The gain is very little. iBasso is aware of this now but I guess the design will not change right now. I haven't found it to be a problem but it depends upon your phones. It might help in driving the HD650 to a real loud level but I don't want to ruin my ears. 

 I would not spend a bunch of money on opamps, you don't need to for great sound._


----------



## wolfen68

I agree that the stock opamps are very satisfactory and should suit most right out of the box.


----------



## jamato8

Listening with the same files size, IC with just the amps being the difference. Works for me. :^)

 Left to right: P3, D10, Mustang, 71A, D3, Xin Mini, Predator

 I love velcro.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I want to also chime in that I do love the stock opamps. Like I said before, 95% of my review was done with it stock. I am running a similar setup with the stock buffers but with the LTC6241HV in LR instead of the stock ADA4841-2 due to slightly less RFI from iPhone and possibly slightly more detail or space with the same warm sound. In the D1 the 4841 and 6241 were similar low draw opamps, while the 6241 seemed to offer more detail if moved to the DAC, and in the D2 Viper the 6241 was the "Predator Clone" opamp.

 I also liked the AD8656 with byassed buffers, and my 4th choice is the AD8397 with bypassed buffers. For dark or bassy cans like the Senn IE8 the AD8599 and AD8066 can help fix the headphone's frequency response, but otherwise the majority of cans don't need those.


----------



## iriverdude

holy moly..that's a lot of irivers.


----------



## DC5Zilla

Phew... finally finished reading all 97 pages. I guess I can now ask a question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds like both the DAC and AMP works great on D10. And you need to use a source with optical out in order to use D10 to its maximum potential right? h120/h140 does look nice but I don't like the idea of using used mp3 player, especially when its about 4 years old (I'm not trying to bash anybody here!!) So that leaves me to basically either a laptop or PCDP. I found out that the old mac used to have an optical output; however, I cannot find any information on the newest mac on website. Do they still come w/ it or no? To be honest, I'd prefer a windows laptop, especially lenovo/IBM brand. Do they offer any laptop with optical output? I'd appreciate if someone points me out what an optical output on computers look like.

 Headphoneaddict, it seems like u own many legacy pcdp with optical output but do you know if any manufacturer currently make a pcdp with optical output?


----------



## jamato8

As a note on the iRivers. The hard drive is replaceable as is the battery. Unless you use the wrong charger, their isn't much to go wrong. They are, to me, much more solid than the iPod and I love the ability to have a small portable hard drive that I can save full sized files to and use optical on the go or use the line out, which to my ear, is better than the iPod in the sound department.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_






 Listening with the same files size, IC with just the amps being the difference. Works for me. :^)

 Left to right: P3, D10, Mustang, 71A, D3, Xin Mini, Predator

 I love velcro._

 

Hey Jama,you gotta stop buying ALL those H120/140 off eBay
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 other mortals need them as well yes? LOL!


----------



## DC5Zilla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As a note on the iRivers. The hard drive is replaceable as is the battery. Unless you use the wrong charger, their isn't much to go wrong. They are, to me, much more solid than the iPod and I love the ability to have a small portable hard drive that I can save full sized files to and use optical on the go or use the line out, which to my ear, is better than the iPod in the sound department._

 

I do understand that both the battery and harddrive is replacable, but its still not my kind. Unless I find a really mint one on ebay, I'm really not sure about it. But I don't think its ever gonna happen because it seem to me that u are just taking every H1xx available on ebay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't find one!!! lol

 sony d-ne20 looks nice... hmm

 EDIT: will someone please post a pic of silver ibasso d10 for me??


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Listening with the same files size, IC with just the amps being the difference. Works for me. :^)

 Left to right: P3, D10, Mustang, 71A, D3, Xin Mini, Predator

 I love velcro._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Jama,you gotta stop buying ALL those H120/140 off eBay
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 other mortals need them as well yes? LOL!_

 

Jam, you're like the Debeers Family, except you're hoarding Irivers instead of diamonds.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with John, in that iBasso has provided a very nice selection of opamps, and it is not necessary to buy a whole bunch of new ones, unless you are an inveterate tinkerer such as myself._

 

hmmm one lok at my sig will confirm with you that I am indeed a tinkerer of the highest order

  Quote:


 The opamps are only a small part of the entire circuit, and will only make very subtle changes in the sound. They are able to shift the SQ slightly from more detail to more "warmth" and vice-versa as well as the ability to make subtle changes in soundstage and imaging. 
 

I realize this, at some stage I may end up playing around with the output caps too, but likely w8ill stay stock until the warranty is finished
  Quote:


 Changing opamps is, at times, beneficial in matching a particular source or set of phones to ones personal preferences in sound, but as I have repeatedly stated, there is no one "best" combination of opamps for everyone. 
 

notice I didnt ask which is 'best' I know thats personal
  Quote:


 I always recommend that one listen to the stock opamps long enough for the amp to "burn-in" and also long enough to become familiar with the stock sound. 
 

will see how I like it, but this advice seems sound
  Quote:


 Because of its low supply voltage, the D10 is somewhat limited in the number of different opamps that will function properly. One can see this list on page 30 of this thread. I am sure that there are more than are on the list, however these are the only ones I have personally tested. 
 

OK..cool, ill just grab a few like I said
  Quote:


 For those who really want to play with opamps, the iBasso P3 is an experimenters dream, as LR, buffers, and ground opamps can all be changed. There are almost an infinite number of combinations possible for this amp, many of which produce, IMO, world-class sound. iBasso themselves state that the P3 has the best amplifier circuit of any of their products. I agree with their assessment. 
 

nah want the dac more than the amp, but thought id have a play with it anyway as I can.
  Quote:


 If one is not comfortable working with small electronic circuits, the D10 can be enjoyed in its stock configuration without running the risk of damage by incorrect installation of opamps. 
 

thanks for the noob warning hehe; its all good.. I waer a grounding strap when working; even though its pretty darn humid here at the moment as its summer

  Quote:


 Although iBasso is gracious enough to provide a very nice kit of opamps to roll, please keep in mind that any damage done to the amp while playing with the opamps is not covered under warranty. 
 

fair enough; I had wondered about that... what a minefield that must be for them.

 Jon: man that bench of Hirivers is the reason most pay silly [prices hehe. lucky I was fortunate enough to strike a generous head-fier


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jon: man that bench of Hirivers is the reason most pay silly [prices hehe. lucky I was fortunate enough to strike a generous head-fier_

 

Sure, and next you blame all my iRivers as causing the collapse of the word economy. I bought a 140 for 25 bucks and a couple of the 120's weren't working etc. You gotta know when to buy and when to hold. :^)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DC5Zilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Phew... finally finished reading all 97 pages. I guess I can now ask a question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds like both the DAC and AMP works great on D10. And you need to use a source with optical out in order to use D10 to its maximum potential right? h120/h140 does look nice but I don't like the idea of using used mp3 player, especially when its about 4 years old (I'm not trying to bash anybody here!!) So that leaves me to basically either a laptop or PCDP. I found out that the old mac used to have an optical output; however, I cannot find any information on the newest mac on website. Do they still come w/ it or no? To be honest, I'd prefer a windows laptop, especially lenovo/IBM brand. Do they offer any laptop with optical output? I'd appreciate if someone points me out what an optical output on computers look like.

 Headphoneaddict, it seems like u own many legacy pcdp with optical output but do you know if any manufacturer currently make a pcdp with optical output?_

 

The D10 is also very good via USB.

 I don't know of any current production PCDP with optical out. Jamato8 is hoarding iRiver's and while I have one I am hoarding the PCDP since they are so important in my collection and irreplaceable sometimes.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You gotta know when to buy and when to hold._

 

Sell, sell, sell!


----------



## deadie

Thanks for the response!

 I wonder if it was just a quirky circumstance that generated the whine from the D10 that I ultimately returned.

 I was in a high rise hotel in Seoul, didn't see any radio towers in the general vicinity, but who's to say that something unique was going on?

 Hearing the whine and also the fact that the gain switch function was bogus, I turned the amp around and sent it back to China. (At really high pisser cost, btw... *big sigh*)

 But anyway, I may have been too hasty thinking that I got a defective amp and that I should have waited to hear if the problem existed here at home. 

 ... then again, the return prompted me to pick up my DR.DAC2, and I'm happy with that, so thus turns the weird world of our hobby. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, it would seem you were getting interference. The cable can act/does act as an antenna. Also the stock opamp can be more prone to this interference. The 8066 less so and it sounds good. Too bad as the D10 is a joy. I haven't even been listening to my home amp lately. After 700 plus hours on the amp there are refinements that make the amp, for me, just plain exciting._


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't turned my WA6 on in weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, I did yesterday to compare to a Qinpu A-3 amp I am reviewing..._

 

how is the Qinpu A-3?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure, and next you blame all my iRivers as causing the collapse of the word economy. I bought a 140 for 25 bucks and a couple of the 120's weren't working etc. You gotta know when to buy and when to hold. :^)_

 

hehe glad you didnt take me seriously... yeah , once I know my way around an iriver like I do ipod, i'll snap up some non-working ones for parts etc. but now even those are going for stupid money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 its all your fault 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 jk


----------



## DC5Zilla

Did anyone find any synergy with certain iem or headphone? or is D10 a well rounded player that works equally good with any? just wanted to know the recommendation to pair with D10


----------



## Evergreen

According to the Apple website, the latest models of both the Macbook and the Macbook Pro have optical in and optical out.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how is the Qinpu A-3?_

 

I am working on a review of the A-3, but was held back by sinusitis and bronchitis, and am on antibiotics and a tapering dose of steroids for my asthma. But I plan to report on it this weekend, before heading out of town for 4 days for spring break.

 It is actually very nice - I have used the A-3 with several sources and use the speaker output to feed a Stax SRD-7 pro transformer, as well as to drive my AKG K1000. I have spent less time with the headphone out (1/8" jack on the back originally for pre-amp and subwoofer), but even then it is close to the EF-1 and therefore probably close to the DV336i as well (sold). It does a nice job of filling in the mids of the ATH-A900 and AH-D2000.

 The A-3 speaker out and Stax transformer sound very good driving Stax O2 Mk1. While the Woo GES drives the O2 Mk2 better than the A-3, with Stax O2 Mk1 the A-3 sounds a little better - tighter and punchier and more dynamic. The Mk1 seem to be harder to drive than the Mk2, which is why they are not quite as good on the GES as they are with a speaker amp and transformer. The GES still wins at micro-detail and refinement, but there is no way a $300 amp and $400 transformer should get to within even 90% of a $2500 maxed GES. I prefer the A-3 over the Nuforce Icon driving the Stax O2, but the Travagans Red with AD743 is very close. It's all a matter of synergy and which headphones I am using - only with the K1000 do I like the Travagans Red with rolled opamps more. And, the stock chinese tubes on the A-3 aren't as bad as Skylab made them out to be, or my stock tubes are different, because a $25 matched pair of JAN Sylvania 2C51 are only a little better, not a lot better.

 To stay on topic, vs the iBasso D10, the A-3 has a warm but detailed airy sound signature, and more powerful bass - driven by my PS Audio Digital Link III desktop DAC the A-3 tops the D10, which is not unexpected. Still, with normal headphones the D10 is still highly regarded, especially in it's synergy with my Westone ES3X custom IEM.


----------



## wdoerr

The usb plug works periodically, completely dead now.
 The aux in/out does not work with the plug fully connected, only when it is half-way in.
 Therefore, its useless.

 Do I have to ship it back to:

 SL CO. LTD.
 Mr. Su
 ma er village ma yong, town dong guan city
 523000 dongguan
 China, People's Republic

 Also, is DHL the only shipper to China? Since there is only one office in Chicagmom, do they pick-up?

 I have emailed iBasso, but no response yet.

 Edit: Sorry, this was operator error. All is well.


----------



## PG21

My D10 shipped out 4am pacific today from the Hong Kong Hub. Do you guys think it will come tomorrow? Pretty sure DHL doesn't ship on weekends


----------



## wdoerr

I found this address on the invoice (ink stamp from iBasso?):

 MAER VILLAGE MA YONG TOWN
 DONG GUAN CITY CHINA
 523000 0769-22429991

 This one sounds better.
 Has anyone sent them a package?


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am working on a review of the A-3, but was held back by sinusitis and bronchitis, and am on antibiotics and a tapering dose of steroids for my asthma. But I plan to report on it this weekend, before heading out of town for 4 days for spring break.

 It is actually very nice - I have used the A-3 with several sources and use the speaker output to feed a Stax SRD-7 pro transformer, as well as to drive my AKG K1000. I have spent less time with the headphone out (1/8" jack on the back originally for pre-amp and subwoofer), but even then it is close to the EF-1 and therefore probably close to the DV336i as well (sold). It does a nice job of filling in the mids of the ATH-A900 and AH-D2000.

 The A-3 speaker out and Stax transformer sound very good driving Stax O2 Mk1. While the Woo GES drives the O2 Mk2 better than the A-3, with Stax O2 Mk1 the A-3 sounds a little better - tighter and punchier and more dynamic. The Mk1 seem to be harder to drive than the Mk2, which is why they are not quite as good on the GES as they are with a speaker amp and transformer. The GES still wins at micro-detail and refinement, but there is no way a $300 amp and $400 transformer should get to within even 90% of a $2500 maxed GES. I prefer the A-3 over the Nuforce Icon driving the Stax O2, but the Travagans Red with AD743 is very close. It's all a matter of synergy and which headphones I am using - only with the K1000 do I like the Travagans Red with rolled opamps more. And, the stock chinese tubes on the A-3 aren't as bad as Skylab made them out to be, or my stock tubes are different, because a $25 matched pair of JAN Sylvania 2C51 are only a little better, not a lot better.

 To stay on topic, vs the iBasso D10, the A-3 has a warm but detailed airy sound signature, and more powerful bass - driven by my PS Audio Digital Link III desktop DAC the A-3 tops the D10, which is not unexpected. Still, with normal headphones the D10 is still highly regarded, especially in it's synergy with my Westone ES3X custom IEM._

 

It well expected that A-3 will better than D10 for full size can. No doubt. But since I'm venturing into home setup, I'm interested in how does it compare to GS Novo which I just bought.

 Anyway, do take care of your health too.


----------



## jo808

hi all, i just got my d10 last week and was hoping to get rid of that "hiss" (at least that's what i think you all are referring to it as) from my macbook's output. unfortunately though, the hiss still seems to be present when using the d10 via USB out. the hiss seems to really kick in with the volume knob set past 2 o'clock. i was hoping that the d10 would make my classical music listenable, but that hiss still persists. does anyone know how to remedy this problem? sorry if this question was already posted. i tried browsing through the first 99 pages, but didn't find anything. also, how much (if any) of the hiss may be attributed to the quality of the recording?


----------



## jamato8

Is there hiss when the D10 isn't hooked up to the USB? Are there any settings for listening changed on the audio part in the computer that would have the high frequencies accentuated? I don't get any hiss on my Mac so I am not sure what else to add. Did you try a different USB cable?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It well expected that A-3 will better than D10 for full size can. No doubt. But since I'm venturing into home setup, I'm interested in how does it compare to GS Novo which I just bought.

 Anyway, do take care of your health too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have a review and followup comments of the Novo here: Review & Loan Program: New Graham Slee Beta Novo Headphone Amp (discreet) - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 I liked the Novo. It wasn't as warm sounding as the EF-1 for around the same price, although the Novo is a good amp for IEM and the EF-1 isn't. I said the EF-1 was rich like a Mocha Latte (without being too thick) and the Novo was clean and refreshing like a sparkling water (without being too cold). That would make the A-3 a raspberry iced tea with cane sugar. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't tried the A-3 with IEM yet, but with full size phones it sounds kinda between the EF-1 and Novo in the midrange and treble, with stronger bass than either one but slightly less power than either one. The Novo seemed to never run out of power. They all have good detail, but with a slightly smaller soundstage than my higher end amps like Woo and Single Power. The D10 can match their transparency but not their power with full size cans. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jo808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi all, i just got my d10 last week and was hoping to get rid of that "hiss" (at least that's what i think you all are referring to it as) from my macbook's output. unfortunately though, the hiss still seems to be present when using the d10 via USB out. the hiss seems to really kick in with the volume knob set past 2 o'clock. i was hoping that the d10 would make my classical music listenable, but that hiss still persists. does anyone know how to remedy this problem? sorry if this question was already posted. i tried browsing through the first 99 pages, but didn't find anything. also, how much (if any) of the hiss may be attributed to the quality of the recording?_

 

My D10 with stock opamps or AD8656 or LTC6241HV is very quiet, and I can crank the volume all the way via usb with music paused and not hear hiss with my IEM. The AD746 opamp that I tried was hissy.


----------



## obentou

Hmm you are right, I also hear hiss from the USB DAC after the dial goes past 2o'clock on the D10. Hm.... I am listening through the D10's with a W3.


----------



## jo808

hi guys,

 thanks for the responses. perhaps, i am misusing the term hiss. with my music paused and the volume all the way up i do not hear any noise at all (which i am assuming is good, based on HeadphoneAddict's reply). jomato8, i am using the itunes equalizer a little bit, but the supposed "hiss" is not high frequency. my attempt to describe it would be as a faint, airy, fuzzy noise. i'm thinking now that it may just be quantization noise, attributable to the record quality of the music i'm listening to. my music is either ripped as apple lossless or 320 kpbs, so i was initially dissuaded from this hypothesis. do you guys think that my music has anything to do with it? i do notice that the amount of noise varies from song to song, but is especially prominent with my classical music since there is generally less going on in the background.


----------



## jo808

hi guys,

 thanks for the responses. perhaps, i am misusing the term hiss. with my music paused and the volume all the way up i do not hear any noise at all (which i am assuming is good, based on HeadphoneAddict's reply). jomato8, i am using the itunes equalizer a little bit, but the supposed "hiss" is not high frequency. my attempt to describe it would be as a faint, airy, fuzzy noise. i'm thinking now that it may just be quantization noise, attributable to the record quality of the music i'm listening to. my music is either ripped as apple lossless or 320 kpbs, so i was initially dissuaded from this hypothesis. do you guys think that my music has anything to do with it? i do notice that the amount of noise varies from song to song, but is especially prominent with my classical music since there is generally less going on in the background.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jo808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi guys,

 thanks for the responses. perhaps, i am misusing the term hiss. with my music paused and the volume all the way up i do not hear any noise at all (which i am assuming is good, based on HeadphoneAddict's reply). jomato8, i am using the itunes equalizer a little bit, but the supposed "hiss" is not high frequency. my attempt to describe it would be as a faint, airy, fuzzy noise. i'm thinking now that it may just be quantization noise, attributable to the record quality of the music i'm listening to. my music is either ripped as apple lossless or 320 kpbs, so i was initially dissuaded from this hypothesis. do you guys think that my music has anything to do with it? i do notice that the amount of noise varies from song to song, but is especially prominent with my classical music since there is generally less going on in the background._

 

Is the D10 quite, no noise at all, when the usb is not plugged in? Did you try a different USB cable? Do you have a different computer you could try?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jo808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi all, i just got my d10 last week and was hoping to get rid of that "hiss" (at least that's what i think you all are referring to it as) from my macbook's output. unfortunately though, the hiss still seems to be present when using the d10 via USB out. the hiss seems to really kick in with the volume knob set past 2 o'clock. i was hoping that the d10 would make my classical music listenable, but that hiss still persists. does anyone know how to remedy this problem? sorry if this question was already posted. i tried browsing through the first 99 pages, but didn't find anything. also, how much (if any) of the hiss may be attributed to the quality of the recording?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jo808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi guys,

 thanks for the responses. perhaps, i am misusing the term hiss. with my music paused and the volume all the way up i do not hear any noise at all (which i am assuming is good, based on HeadphoneAddict's reply). jomato8, i am using the itunes equalizer a little bit, but the supposed "hiss" is not high frequency. my attempt to describe it would be as a faint, airy, fuzzy noise. i'm thinking now that it may just be quantization noise, attributable to the record quality of the music i'm listening to. my music is either ripped as apple lossless or 320 kpbs, so i was initially dissuaded from this hypothesis. do you guys think that my music has anything to do with it? i do notice that the amount of noise varies from song to song, but is especially prominent with my classical music since there is generally less going on in the background._

 


 So, not when paused or no music playing - you are talking about the background noise in quiet passages of music, that you can hear when the volume knob is set at normal listening levels and the music is just very quiet for a moment or there is a break in the music? Kinda like signal to noise ratio.

 No recording will be silent when there is a lull in the music between certain passages of the music, the microphones are picking up moving air and ambient noise all the time.


----------



## jamato8

Hey Larry, you got a pretty good signature going there. :^)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It well expected that A-3 will better than D10 for full size can. No doubt. But since I'm venturing into home setup, I'm interested in how does it compare to GS Novo which I just bought.

 Anyway, do take care of your health too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jo808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi all, i just got my d10 last week and was hoping to get rid of that "hiss" (at least that's what i think you all are referring to it as) from my macbook's output. unfortunately though, the hiss still seems to be present when using the d10 via USB out. the hiss seems to really kick in with the volume knob set past 2 o'clock. i was hoping that the d10 would make my classical music listenable, but that hiss still persists. does anyone know how to remedy this problem? sorry if this question was already posted. i tried browsing through the first 99 pages, but didn't find anything. also, how much (if any) of the hiss may be attributed to the quality of the recording?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Larry, you got a pretty good signature going there. :^)_

 

Yah, time to update it again. RSA P-51 sounds glorious. The D10 with LTC6241HV is kinda in between the warmth of the P-51 and neutrality of the Pico, so I am gonna roll opamps again and see if I can find a P-51 clone in inside the D10


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

double post - my new Macbook Pro double clicks when I hit it with my thumb - wierd.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, the 51 is great. And then maybe another toy for you to listen to in the future. I will want to see pictures. :^)

 Double posts. It is taking too long for a post to show up so I can understand how someone might his the button again.


----------



## deadie

Here's the address where I shipped mine back:

 Li Jian Sheng
 10/10, Wei Xin Da Building, BaoMing 2 Rd
 XiXiang, BaoAn, ShenZhen, GuangDong, 518000
 China
 Tel: 13714421830

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found this address on the invoice (ink stamp from iBasso?):

 MAER VILLAGE MA YONG TOWN
 DONG GUAN CITY CHINA
 523000 0769-22429991

 This one sounds better.
 Has anyone sent them a package?_


----------



## jo808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the D10 quite, no noise at all, when the usb is not plugged in? Did you try a different USB cable? Do you have a different computer you could try?_

 

The D10 is silent when the usb is not plugged in. I don't have another computer at the moment that I can try it on. Perhaps I could send you a copy of a song in which this "noise" is clearly evident. Unfortunately, I'm very new to this whole audio game, and thus don't have a clear vision of what I should expect from my music. BTW, thank you guys for the help. I really appreciate it.


----------



## littletree76

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Evergreen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to the Apple website, the latest models of both the Macbook and the Macbook Pro have optical in and optical out._

 

All current Mac models (MacBook, MacMini, iMac and MacPro) include digital/analog combo mini output jack labeled as headphone output accept MacBook Air which has only analog headphone output. MacPro even has dedicated standard Toslink output port seperated from analog headphone output. Since all Mac models come with USB2.0 ports, you have a choice of either optical SPDIF or USB as digital interface for external DAC.

 I have headphone output of my iMac connected to Octavart DAC/headphone amplifier through optical link. Output of the Octavart headphone amplifier is connected to Firestone Little Country tube pre-amplifier before reaching ESI nEar05 active monitor speaker. Digital format (sampling rate/bit width) of the optical output can be adjusted through Audio MIDI Setup utility bundled with Mac OS X.

 I am still pondering whether to acquire D10 for my newly purchased aluminum Unibody MacBook instead of depending on iPod nano as sole digital source (iPod nano > LOD > rolled P3 Heron > Ultrasone HFI-780 headphone). One consideration is whether stock D10 sound better than existing rolled P3 Heron.


----------



## JPIndustrie

I just got the D10, and I must say, it is much smaller than I anticipated. IMO, I believe the size of this thing isn't an issue for the amount of features it has.


----------



## qusp

wow 100 pages in a month .....awesome!!!


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *littletree76* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_..............................snip................ ...............
 ..................... One consideration is whether stock D10 sound better than existing rolled P3 Heron._

 


 I think my P3 amp with what I consider to be my favorite opamp configuration sounds better than my stock D10. The rolled D10 comes close, but the P3 can accept a much greater selection of opamps than can the D10, which gives the user more latitude in matching sources and components to ones personal preferences. 

 The differences, however, are not great, and the input options and excellent DAC of the D10 can easily outweigh the slight difference between the amp sections of the P3 and D10.

 I use my P3 as my bedside amp and my D10 at my computer station as I listen to a lot of streaming music.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yah, time to update it again. RSA P-51 sounds glorious. The D10 with LTC6241HV is kinda in between the warmth of the P-51 and neutrality of the Pico, so I am gonna roll opamps again and see if I can find a P-51 clone in inside the D10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

If i can clone SR71a sound like how the Go-Vibe Vulcan does it. But i find ad8066 with ad8656 buffer sound like SMIV but more refine.


----------



## RASeymour

I just got my D10 this morning (ordered Monday afternoon!). It looked like it just came from Hong Kong, beat up bag and box. But at the center was this beautiful little amp (well not as small as the T4).

 I'm not used to using optical or Toslink connects. 

 Is there any point in using one of the miniplug-Toslink adapter? (I've seen them at Sys.Concept)

 I have a Sony NE-920 portable CD player. On the side of the player there's a mini-plug but it says "Line Out (optical)." Do I use a miniplug-Toslink interconnect for this?

 Finally, there's just a single RCA jack on the bottom of the D10. If I plug it into a source with two RCA jacks, do I use one of those interconnects that goes from two jacks to one?

 Thanks in advance for your answers.


----------



## RASeymour

Oops double post


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RASeymour* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my D10 this morning (ordered Monday afternoon!). It looked like it just came from Hong Kong, beat up bag and box. But at the center was this beautiful little amp (well not as small as the T4).

 I'm not used to using optical or Toslink connects. 

 Is there any point in using one of the miniplug-Toslink adapter? (I've seen them at Sys.Concept)_

 

yeah well you have to get a custom cable that has toslink one end and mini type on the other. the adapters work well from what I read and you can get the right angle adapter as well for low profile

  Quote:


 I have a Sony NE-920 portable CD player. On the side of the player there's a mini-plug but it says "Line Out (optical)." Do I use a miniplug-Toslink interconnect for this? 
 

yes

  Quote:


 Finally, there's just a single RCA jack on the bottom of the D10. If I plug it into a source with two RCA jacks, do I use one of those interconnects that goes from two jacks to one? 
 

no that is a coaxial digital input, not a typical analogue RCA. besides if you did that with an analogue signal you would only get mono. so yeah if you have a source with spdif on coax you can use that input.

  Quote:


 Thanks in advance for your answers. 
 

no problem. I havent got mine yet, but I have other optical and coax sources; besides i'm sure if i've stepped out of line someone will let me know


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RASeymour* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not used to using optical or Toslink connects. 

 Is there any point in using one of the miniplug-Toslink adapter? (I've seen them at Sys.Concept)

 I have a Sony NE-920 portable CD player. On the side of the player there's a mini-plug but it says "Line Out (optical)." Do I use a miniplug-Toslink interconnect for this?_

 

I go like this with a SysConcept cable. On the back of the D10 I have a right angle adaptor as the cable would otherwise be too short and I could order a right angle adaptor for the D-NE920 end as well but as I only use this for hotel room bedside table rig it doesn't matter to me that the profile i a bit bigger.


----------



## Surrealsky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I go like this with a SysConcept cable. On the back of the D10 I have a right angle adaptor as the cable would otherwise be too short and I could order a right angle adaptor for the D-NE920 end as well but as I only use this for hotel room bedside table rig it doesn't matter to me that the profile i a bit bigger.




_

 

Aliens are in town! heh


----------



## kostalex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm you are right, I also hear hiss from the USB DAC after the dial goes past 2o'clock on the D10. Hm.... I am listening through the D10's with a W3._

 

If you have laptop - try to unplug it from the wall power, using it on batteries.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kostalex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you have laptop - try to unplug it from the wall power, using it on batteries._

 

Yes it could be the grounding issue that was discussed earlier in this thread


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Surrealsky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aliens are in town! heh_

 

Beam me up Scotty


----------



## JPIndustrie

I was able to finally give my new D10 a listen to this weekend, and I must say I'm extremely impressed. So much so, that now I don't think I can carry my iPod + Westone 3's without the D10 anymore. 

 Before I go on, I must confess that I'm a noob to this whole thing, but have finally 'seen the light'. It's an expensive hobby yes, but has completely renewed my interest in personal listening. That being said, I don't really know much about the differences between different amplifiers or earphones, and I'm really only going on whatever I read here. I'm glad this resource is here simply so I know which product to buy in different price ranges. 

 When I first opened the box, I was surprised at how small the D10 is. This is my first headphone amp, so I was a little worried about the size after seeing comparison pictures. However, in reality its no bigger than my iPod or iPhone. 

 Operation is easy, which is good for someone like me without experience in amps. 

 The sound is awesome. Seriously. I'm still waiting for the iPhone/iPod copper LOD cable that I got off eBay (which was in my budget), so I'm only listening to this thing with the 3.5MM Male to Male cable that came with D10, using either my iPhone 3G's or 160 GB iPod Classic's headphone out. The difference between the D10 and the headphone out's of the Apple products is night and day. I'm hearing little things I've never heard before in the regular music I listen to, and my music is only either 160 - 320 kbps MP3's, .AAC's, .m4a's, or .m4p's. Nothing spectacular by any means, but I don't consider myself an audiophile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And yes, the one bad thing about it is, it does have the GSM/GPRS/EDGE radio frequency interference issue that other's have mentioned - and I've only used it on the NYC subway. I hope the interference isn't terrible walking around outside. 

 In conclusion, I'd say any people lurking here from the Earbudes/IEM forum, possibly looking to improve their listening experience with their nice, new high-end earphones should definitely looking into purchasing an amp, especially something so easy to use and immediately gratifying as the D10. I'm pretty happy with the sound I'm getting, and I've really only had this thing 'burning-in' for a total of like 6 hours. I want to eventually try rolling the amps, especially if it could improve the sound further. I believe the D10 through the Westone 3's is a great combo.


----------



## berthoud

I just got mine too. Ordered it last weekend, got it Thursday. 

 First impressions are very positive but am awaiting some ES3x's later this week before I really get it going.


----------



## bakhtiar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JPIndustrie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was able to finally give my new D10 a listen to this weekend, and I must say I'm extremely impressed. So much so, that now I don't think I can carry my iPod + Westone 3's without the D10 anymore. 

 Before I go on, I must confess that I'm a noob to this whole thing, but have finally 'seen the light'. It's an expensive hobby yes, but has completely renewed my interest in personal listening. That being said, I don't really know much about the differences between different amplifiers or earphones, and I'm really only going on whatever I read here. I'm glad this resource is here simply so I know which product to buy in different price ranges. 

 Operation is easy, which is good for someone like me without experience in amps. 

 The sound is awesome. Seriously. I'm still waiting for the iPhone/iPod copper LOD cable that I got off eBay (which was in my budget), so I'm only listening to this thing with the 3.5MM Male to Male cable that came with D10, using either my iPhone 3G's or 160 GB iPod Classic's headphone out. The difference between the D10 and the headphone out's of the Apple products is night and day. I'm hearing little things I've never heard before in the regular music I listen to, and my music is only either 160 - 320 kbps MP3's, .AAC's, .m4a's, or .m4p's. Nothing spectacular by any means, but I don't consider myself an audiophile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And yes, the one bad thing about it is, it does have the GSM/GPRS/EDGE radio frequency interference issue that other's have mentioned - and I've only used it on the NYC subway. I hope the interference isn't terrible walking around outside. 

 In conclusion, I'd say any people lurking here from the Earbudes/IEM forum, possibly looking to improve their listening experience with their nice, new high-end earphones should definitely looking into purchasing an amp, especially something so easy to use and immediately gratifying as the D10. I'm pretty happy with the sound I'm getting, and I've really only had this thing 'burning-in' for a total of like 6 hours. I want to eventually try rolling the amps, especially if it could improve the sound further. I believe the D10 through the Westone 3's is a great combo._

 

Congratulation. Glad you like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you use only D10's analog input (from iPod/phone), then you only use 40% of it's REAL potential 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. To get 100%, try it's DAC mode via digital interconnects, USB, optical and coaxial digital input. Then, you will really appreciate the FULL potential of D10. To my ears, D10 not need much burn-in. Out of the box, it is already fabulous 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank you.


----------



## Surrealsky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JPIndustrie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was able to finally give my new D10 a listen to this weekend, and I must say I'm extremely impressed. So much so, that now I don't think I can carry my iPod + Westone 3's without the D10 anymore. 

 Before I go on, I must confess that I'm a noob to this whole thing, but have finally 'seen the light'. It's an expensive hobby yes, but has completely renewed my interest in personal listening. That being said, I don't really know much about the differences between different amplifiers or earphones, and I'm really only going on whatever I read here. I'm glad this resource is here simply so I know which product to buy in different price ranges. 

 When I first opened the box, I was surprised at how small the D10 is. This is my first headphone amp, so I was a little worried about the size after seeing comparison pictures. However, in reality its no bigger than my iPod or iPhone. 

 Operation is easy, which is good for someone like me without experience in amps. 

 The sound is awesome. Seriously. I'm still waiting for the iPhone/iPod copper LOD cable that I got off eBay (which was in my budget), so I'm only listening to this thing with the 3.5MM Male to Male cable that came with D10, using either my iPhone 3G's or 160 GB iPod Classic's headphone out. The difference between the D10 and the headphone out's of the Apple products is night and day. I'm hearing little things I've never heard before in the regular music I listen to, and my music is only either 160 - 320 kbps MP3's, .AAC's, .m4a's, or .m4p's. Nothing spectacular by any means, but I don't consider myself an audiophile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And yes, the one bad thing about it is, it does have the GSM/GPRS/EDGE radio frequency interference issue that other's have mentioned - and I've only used it on the NYC subway. I hope the interference isn't terrible walking around outside. 

 In conclusion, I'd say any people lurking here from the Earbudes/IEM forum, possibly looking to improve their listening experience with their nice, new high-end earphones should definitely looking into purchasing an amp, especially something so easy to use and immediately gratifying as the D10. I'm pretty happy with the sound I'm getting, and I've really only had this thing 'burning-in' for a total of like 6 hours. I want to eventually try rolling the amps, especially if it could improve the sound further. I believe the D10 through the Westone 3's is a great combo._

 



 Wait till u get your lod and also further burn in


----------



## JPIndustrie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congratulation. Glad you like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you use only D10's analog input (from iPod/phone), then you only use 40% of it's REAL potential 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. To get 100%, try it's DAC mode via digital interconnects, USB, optical and coaxial digital input. Then, you will really appreciate the FULL potential of D10. To my ears, D10 not need much burn-in. Out of the box, it is already fabulous 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank you._

 

Forgot to mention, I also was able to play around with the D10's other outputs also! One of the reasons why I looked at the D10 was because of its optical input. I play a lot of Rock Band, and prefer to listen to my Westone 3's while I play (completely blocks out the sound of the drum kits! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), so I was interested in how the D10 plays with the optical out of my Xbox 360. 

 I must say, the sound is amazing. The detail is exquisite, while the soundstage completely envelopes you. The D10 + Westone 3 will definitely be a part of my gaming rig too. 

 I tried the USB DAC through my early-2008 Perryn Macbook Pro, but not for very long. For this, I used my Grado SR-60's. I usually use these headphones when listening to music/movies/anything through my MBP's headphone out. I've always considered Apple notebook headphone amps to be some of the best in the business. When I first listened to it, I didn't immediately hear a difference. I'd like to try the optical out of my notebook with the Westone 3's, though.


----------



## iszatso

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Surrealsky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait till u get your lod and also further burn in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Totally agree, getting better and better, I'm up to about 100 hours and the change is noticeable and even more pleasurable than when first purchased. Drives my denon 7000's real nice.


----------



## immtbiker

Wow, wow, wow!

 I decided to try using my newly acquired *Amphora* being fed by the line out of the D10, being fed by my H120's optical out, being fed by Donald Fagen's "Morph The Cat". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Intensely delicious.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, wow, wow!

 I decided to try using my newly acquired *Amphora* being fed by the line out of the D10, being fed by my H120's optical out, being fed by Donald Fagen's "Morph The Cat". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Intensely delicious._

 

The setup that I am listening to in my room at the Glenwood Springs Hotel and Spa right now is Macbook Pro > sysconcept.ca optical cable > iBasso D10 > Soloz 12-strand litz-braid mini-RCA > Amphora > Westone 3


----------



## abitdeef

Whats an Amphora? I goolged it and got hits about ancient Greek vases


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ihatepopupads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats an Amphora? I goolged it and got hits about ancient Greek vases
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f70/am...ssions-415737/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f70/al...-photos-409801


----------



## berthoud

What kind of battery life is everyone getting with their D10's?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

With the AD8656 and bypassed buffers I got 28 hours on battery using the optical DAC with my Macbook Pro to drive some IEM. I haven't bothered to do any more tests.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, my d10 has arrivedyesterday together with some other gear thanks to Hooran. I just connected it to my laptop, my iriver has not arrived yet. It seems to work ok.... I dont hear much difference at all between low and high gain though, connected to my pro900. What is stranger though is that the volume does not seem to make a difference at all. I have the volume in foobar and windows maxed but still no difference if i turn the volume knob. It does not sound distored or anything though... it just doesnt get any louder. Maybe it has to charge or maybe this is the loudest it can get, but that would not be very loud. I think the switch on the back is the switch for charging since it is the only switch besides the gain switch on the device, it is turned to the right position so closest to the usb jack.
 It sounds very good otherwise I just find it strange with the volume and gain.....
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Anouk

Hello once more, ok never mind that last post, this happens when you have been up from 4am and not had any coffee yet. I did put my headphone into the wrong socket and now it works GREAT and puts a smile on my face. I think pro900 and this amp have great sinergy. I still dont hear too much difference between low and high gain and would like to know if the charge switch is indeed the one on the back and is activated by pushing it to the right?
 Also is the strange connector to the right of the usb switch the optical connector? and whats the one besides that, power? i hope charging over usb will work well because otherwise i would have to get an adapter.
 Thanks larry for all your advise, withoutyou i wouldnt have my current rig, 
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Anouk

Hello, ok i found out the controls and connectors now. If this amp had a preamp output, a bit better gain settings adn crossfeed my home amp would be sold right now. Although iw ould probbably buy th ebalanced version and dac at osme point. I hope ibasso will make home amp sin the future too.I wonder if they will be able to minimize the amp even further in the future. I have had the predator in the past and I htink its a lot smaller then the ibasso d10.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, ok i found out the controls and connectors now. If this amp had a preamp output, a bit better gain settings adn crossfeed my home amp would be sold right now. Although iw ould probbably buy th ebalanced version and dac at osme point. I hope ibasso will make home amp sin the future too.I wonder if they will be able to minimize the amp even further in the future. I have had the predator in the past and I htink its a lot smaller then the ibasso d10.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Hard. Predator does not have opamp rolling capability. And do remember predator only support usb dac and not optical and coax input. If D10 can evolve around the similar size with full opamp rolling capability like SuperMacro or P3 Heron, I believe it can sound even better.

 I'm a strong believer that a portable will be for portable use and wouldn't be able to replace a home setup for the same cost.

 And I do think you need some coffee or sleep too


----------



## immtbiker

It's good that Anouk was able to have a conversation with himself while people in the US were sleeping


----------



## abitdeef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f70/am...ssions-415737/

ALO/ Red Wine Audio Desk Top Headphone Amp (Amphora) W/ PHOTOS - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio_

 


 thanks!


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's good that Anouk was able to have a conversation with himself while people in the US were sleeping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, it is very kind that HeadFi offers that service.


----------



## abitdeef

Wish I had a D10 to have a conversation with myself about it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Based on the t4 I think I would love it, if ibasso makes some more.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's good that Anouk was able to have a conversation with himself while people in the US were sleeping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Not, himself - it's "Herself".

 And if I recall she is visually impaired, so did a great job figuring things out with out instructions.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ihatepopupads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wish I had a D10 to have a conversation with myself about it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Based on the t4 I think I would love it, if ibasso makes some more._

 

Just order one. They seem to be shipping them out as fast as they make them but never update the website to show "In stock".


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not, himself - it's "Herself".

 And if I recall she is visually impaired, so did a great job figuring things out with out instructions._

 

well said, not only does she have visibility problems but is able to communicate to us lot in OUR native language, not hers. The language issue alone would have me stumped.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not, himself - it's "Herself".

 And if I recall she is visually impaired, so did a great job figuring things out with out instructions._

 

correct on all counts larry, she is a woman and she is not sighted. one thing I worry about is op-amp rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 shes a very capable woman from my experience with her, but I dont know about that; what do you guys think??

 most of all Anouk.. what do YOU think?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 also guys; i'm about to bite the bullet; about to order both amp and sysconcept cable/s what do I have to ask the guys at sysconcept?? they have plenty of pics of iHP140's but none of iHP120 they are slightly different sizes AFAIK?? also if I order a U cable with no metal covers as well as a couple of the right angle convertors; will I be able to use it in both configurations?? any info on this and specs I have to give them would be much appreciated. also I tend to use the leather cover for my iriver, so I assume that will add a few mm?? how many of you guys do use the supplied cover and how much does it affect the cable diametre/length?? I like to keep my gear well protected. a reason why I can sell my pico for just a little less than what I paid for it. to get this


----------



## aloksatoor

i have a 2.5 mm center to center from sys concepts for an h120 with d10 with the lisa 3 std sandwiched in between.... hold it together with velcro straps....


----------



## dazzer1975

I think I ordered 2.8mm center to center without boots and I use an iskin on mine so wont be too far off the extra associated with the leather case.

 you will need to buy two u cables to use in both configs re with right angle adapters and without as the right angle adaptors only accept toslink connections, thus one of the u cables will have to be terminated both ends in toslink.


----------



## qusp

great thanks guys; I just heard back from them (sysconcept) too, alok, how are you finding the lisa III with the D10?? thats what I plan to do half the time??


----------



## audiofool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I ordered 2.8mm center to center without boots and I use an iskin on mine so wont be too far off the extra associated with the leather case._

 

2.8 mm! Hopefully that is a typo.


----------



## jamato8

Joseph at Sys.concepts knows the right measurement. A 2.8mm would be rather short. There isn't going to be any real difference between the H120 and H140. I use the same connector for both.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiofool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2.8 mm! Hopefully that is a typo._

 

LOL yes nice catch. 2.8cm or 28mm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 apparently 2.8cm toslink to mini for the U without boot, which is the one I would use with the iHP120 -> D10-> lisa III combo and 2.5cm toslink to toslink with no boots, but with the right angled toslink and right angle mini adapters for use as a dac/amp with just the iHP120. glad to know you can use with both iHP120 and 140 as I hope to upgrade the capacity of this one by finding a non-working on for upgrade parts and installing 120gb drive in it either from my DIYMOD (and swap an 80 or a new 240gb into that) or a 64gb CF when the oprice comes down a bit.


----------



## abitdeef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just order one. They seem to be shipping them out as fast as they make them but never update the website to show "In stock"._

 


 Yes!


----------



## immtbiker

My apologies to Anouk. I still think that it's great that she can have a 3 post conversation with _her_self, and work things out, while I'm having Golden Slumbers.

 While I don't speak too many languages, I would say that "Babble" would be my best one. That, and of course, the language of love


----------



## abitdeef

Hey can someone tell me, does the 104 mm length of the D10 include the knobs or is that just the chassis?


----------



## aloksatoor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_great thanks guys; I just heard back from them (sysconcept) too, alok, how are you finding the lisa III with the D10?? thats what I plan to do half the time??_

 

 im still burning it in my lisa is almost brand new (around 100 hours on it).... but out of the box sounds much much better than the ipod LOD plus lisa 3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.... much more punch in the bass with the hd650s.... i have not auditioned it with some jazz,classical with the AKGs planning to this weekend.... The dac is one of the cleanest ive heard thus far (my pico dac was faulty will be back after repairs).... 

 the amp section of the d10 lacks (lets say i like my gilmore lite and lisa 3 much much more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)... dunno if i should start rolling the opamps or use the pico amp for ultra portable..... seemed to me to be a bit bright with the westones.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiofool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2.8 mm! Hopefully that is a typo._

 

yes centimetres I meant, thanks for pulling it up, hopefully no one took the 2.8mm measurement seriously and ordered, although I suspect jopseph would correct the order.

 Sorry again for the typo.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 While I don't speak too many languages, I would say that "Babble" would be my best one. That, and of course, the language of love 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

you big smoothie you lol


----------



## jamato8

I get more bass, very profound, from the Lisa III but I find the D10 to be airier. I would like the combination of the two. The D10 dac and the Lisa III is a very fine combination.

 Ok, I switched over. Yes the Lisa III and the D10 dac is very nice. Great drive and control. The sound is very clean. The D10 has great little dac.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I get more bass, very profound, from the Lisa III but I find the D10 to be airier. I would like the combination of the two. The D10 dac and the Lisa III is a very fine combination.

 Ok, I switched over. Yes the Lisa III and the D10 dac is very nice. Great drive and control. The sound is very clean. The D10 has great little dac._

 

I am listening to the ALO/RWA Amphora through the D10 DAC right now. Great hotel room rig, that I could bring with me and enjoy home-style audio on the go.


----------



## DC5Zilla

Just bought a brand spankin new N-DE20 from Japan for 18800yen!! Now its time to order D10 and a headphone/iem.... es3x or hd600... hmmm


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DC5Zilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just bought a brand spankin new N-DE20 from Japan for 18800yen!! Now its time to order D10 and a headphone/iem.... es3x or hd600... hmmm_

 

What is that?


----------



## DC5Zilla

Its one of the last sony cd walkman to have an optical out. They are already discontinued for a while but my aunt in Japan told me that she have found a one last brand new one at local electronic store


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DC5Zilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its one of the last sony cd walkman to have an optical out. They are already discontinued for a while but my aunt in Japan told me that she have found a one last brand new one at local electronic store_

 

Great. I have a few of the Sony portables with optical out. It is a nice way to go. So it is a mini optical out.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aloksatoor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_im still burning it in my lisa is almost brand new (around 100 hours on it).... but out of the box sounds much much better than the ipod LOD plus lisa 3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.... much more punch in the bass with the hd650s.... i have not auditioned it with some jazz,classical with the AKGs planning to this weekend.... The dac is one of the cleanest ive heard thus far (my pico dac was faulty will be back after repairs).... 

 the amp section of the d10 lacks (lets say i like my gilmore lite and lisa 3 much much more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)... dunno if i should start rolling the opamps or use the pico amp for ultra portable..... seemed to me to be a bit bright with the westones._

 

hmmmm..this makes me worry a little selling my pico to get this sooner. I would like to maintain a decent sounding rig that is more pocketable than lisa, but if its too bright by itself thats a worry. Perhaps I should just wait till next week, when I can afford both and not be in such a hurry. Either that or hope that the diablo I have only requires a new battery; works off wallwart perfect, but wont charge. i'm thinking thats the problem; as its a few years old. either that or use my SE530 over the W3 with it as they have a darkler SQ that might synergize better. hmmmm I hesitate to sell such a lovely little amp for an unknown factor. 

 anyone else got any comments about the brightness??


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmmmm..this makes me worry a little selling my pico to get this sooner. I would like to maintain a decent sounding rig that is more pocketable than lisa, but if its too bright by itself thats a worry. Perhaps I should just wait till next week, when I can afford both and not be in such a hurry. Either that or hope that the diablo I have only requires a new battery; works off wallwart perfect, but wont charge. i'm thinking thats the problem; as its a few years old. either that or use my SE530 over the W3 with it as they have a darkler SQ that might synergize better. hmmmm I hesitate to sell such a lovely little amp for an unknown factor. 

 anyone else got any comments about the brightness??_

 

I don't and I have both, an amp only Pico and a D10, listening on an ER4S. The D10 is more transparent than the Pico. If the recording is bright it will sound. The D10 will let you hear the quality of the recording.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't and I have both, an amp only Pico and a D10, listening on an ER4S. The D10 is more transparent than the Pico. If the recording is bright it will sound. The D10 will let you hear the quality of the recording._

 


 thanks, if it doesnt sound too bright with ER4, then should be OK, unless you ar just immune or like brightness LOL. nah as soon as I get the funds through i'm gonna have to join the club


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks, if it doesnt sound too bright with ER4, then should be OK, unless you ar just immune or like brightness LOL. nah as soon as I get the funds through i'm gonna have to join the club_

 

Coming from vinyl, digital can sound bright and rough . But now I'm so used to it that I can live with it and enjoy it. And the same with the ER4S. It has many flaws but I just like what it does best.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you big smoothie you lol_


----------



## yukihiro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ihatepopupads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey can someone tell me, does the 104 mm length of the D10 include the knobs or is that just the chassis?_

 

just the chassis. 

 measuring it right now, it's about 122mm including the knob and the coaxial/optical connections in the rear.


----------



## RASeymour

Question on power source. I thought that the usb would act as a power source for the D10, but it doesn't seem to. Twice now while burning it in I've had it run out of juice while plugged in to the usb (and the usb plugged in to the dc charger that came with it). 

 Do I flip the charger switch to on while playing to avoid this? Or just keep a good charge on the battery while burning in?

 Otherwise, thanks everyone for the referral to SysConcepts as I've ordered a custom optical for my SonyPCDP. Looking all over the office and the house for optical and digital outs. So far, just a Sony five disc carousel for an optical out and my Adcom cd player with a digital. Boy this thing has a lot of possibilities, so much that this morning I was thinking I might have to order another!


----------



## Anouk

Hey everyone, thanks for jumping to the defense for me Larry & cobut its really no problem, all in good fun. 
 Tomorrow I will spend the whole day with my ibasso anr pro900 in the library, already looking forward to it!
 No opamp rolling for me, Qusp, not at the moment at least. I really like the stock sound, neutral but crisp, a bit crisper then my home system. Its not yet burned in though and i indeed hear the sound when you turn the unit off, but its better then some other amps that dont turn off immediately when you turn the switch (they keep playing sound for a while).
 This will be the final portable amp for me for a while, unless of course I basso releases something even better in the future!
 I loved the bassboost on the lisa3, when i tried it, more amps should have it, and crossfeed too, imho. 
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## qusp

well all is well and ordering later today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




; anytghing else I should know before ordering?? any quirks of te ibasso sight that I should know about apart from the factthat it is in fact in stock even though it still says they are on holiday LOL after weeks


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RASeymour* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question on power source. I thought that the usb would act as a power source for the D10, but it doesn't seem to. Twice now while burning it in I've had it run out of juice while plugged in to the usb (and the usb plugged in to the dc charger that came with it). 

 Do I flip the charger switch to on while playing to avoid this? Or just keep a good charge on the battery while burning in?

 Otherwise, thanks everyone for the referral to SysConcepts as I've ordered a custom optical for my SonyPCDP. Looking all over the office and the house for optical and digital outs. So far, just a Sony five disc carousel for an optical out and my Adcom cd player with a digital. Boy this thing has a lot of possibilities, so much that this morning I was thinking I might have to order another!_

 

You flip the charger switch to on as the unit runs on the internal battery regardless.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DC5Zilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just bought a brand spankin new N-DE20 from Japan for 18800yen!! Now its time to order D10 and a headphone/iem.... es3x or hd600... hmmm_

 

It is the D-NE20. It is the slimmer and without display on the unit version of the D-NE920 that I use and love. The internals should be the same so should work great with the D10.
 How do you get on with the controls though ? The placement on the bottom of the unit seems very strange to me and is the main reason I have the D-NE920 instead.


----------



## DC5Zilla

My bad!! its D-NE20 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I know that you can't use remote along with optical out so I would have to get used to the bottom control panel... I know its rather awkward but I couldn't resist the slim magnesium body.. brand new!!


----------



## nc8000

Yes it sure is sexy. I have the D-EJ1000 (2 actually) as backup units and had the D-EJ2000 that I sold to HeadphoneAddict but I also found their button placement difficault to operate.


----------



## abitdeef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yukihiro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just the chassis. 

 measuring it right now, it's about 122mm including the knob and the coaxial/optical connections in the rear._

 


 Thanks for the info


----------



## qusp

well I just had a win 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and a lose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 good news is I just ordered and paid for my D10!! bad news is that sysconcept dont have bloody paypal!!! aaaaahhhhhh!!!!!! and I dont have any funds in my visa debit; only paypal funds that I just moved over there assuming that both would be able to be handled with paypal. anyone wanna give a man a hand who has paypal and a credit/debit card and has dealt with sysconcept before?? I can make the paypal transfer to you instantly PM me if its doable pleeeeeaaazzeee!!! otherwise it'll take at least 4-5 days to clear back to me bank account before I can order and then i'll have to wait anoth week and a half to 2 weeks to get my cable. until then I wont be able to use the function I bought it for in the first place for a couple of weeks after I have the D10. I was in a hurry and even sold my pico to get the D10, but the whole thing has backfired, couldve bought it outright by next week doh!!! what kind of online store doesnt have paypal at least as one of tgheir options these days man.

 BTW how long are they taking to ship out lately?? the D10 that is??


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well I just had a win 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and a lose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 good news is I just ordered and paid for my D10!! bad news is that sysconcept dont have bloody paypal!!! aaaaahhhhhh!!!!!! and I dont have any funds in my visa debit; only paypal funds that I just moved over there assuming that both would be able to be handled with paypal. anyone wanna give a man a hand who has paypal and a credit/debit card and has dealt with sysconcept before?? I can make the paypal transfer to you instantly PM me if its doable pleeeeeaaazzeee!!! otherwise it'll take at least 4-5 days to clear back to me bank account before I can order and then i'll have to wait anoth week and a half to 2 weeks to get my cable. until then I wont be able to use the function I bought it for in the first place for a couple of weeks after I have the D10. I was in a hurry and even sold my pico to get the D10, but the whole thing has backfired, couldve bought it outright by next week doh!!! what kind of online store doesnt have paypal at least as one of tgheir options these days man.

 BTW how long are they taking to ship out lately?? the D10 that is??_

 


 pm sent. I don't know about shipping times now but when I ordered a bit over a month ago I placed the order Wedensday, it shipped out Saturday and I had it Monday.


----------



## Anouk

Hi Qusp, bah that totally sucks that they dont accept paypal! I wanted to go buy there too when my iriver is sent my way but paypal sure is the easiest way of payment, i will go in search of my credit card.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_pm sent. I don't know about shipping times now but when I ordered a bit over a month ago I placed the order Wedensday, it shipped out Saturday and I had it Monday._

 

thankyou so much to everyone who lept to my aid there; wow we've got a strong community here when it comes to heklping each other spend our money LOL shout-outs to nc8000, Dazzer1975 and Anouk. lightning response time guys. but nc8000 is the lucky winner of an interconnect ( mini to mini or LOD) of his choosing (within reason) mini to mini OK Jan?? BTW I just sent the funds


----------



## qusp

stopppp!!!!

 they just sent me this
 Dear

 Enclosed is a copy how your invoice (invoice in Canadian Dollars) would
 look like with today's exchange rate. Though, if you are planning on
 paying next week there might be an adjustment; it depends on the
 exchange rate.

 No, you can not pay with someone's else visa. We verify credit card
 billing address and if it will not match; you will just be black listed
 on our system; it is not worth it.
 The billing address and shipping address must be the same.


----------



## qusp

god I hope he gets my email s and PM's or i'll be blacklisted and wont be able to order it at all. man what a stupid ordering system, no paypal, and no way for me to do it any other way. and they were quite slow telling me not to do it too. really good service except for these annoying issues.


----------



## dazzer1975

wow thats a bummer, hope you manage to get it sorted, I know what its like trying to get gear so you have all the pieces together at the same time etc.

 I can kind of understand it as thats the case with a lot of places re same billing and delivery address, but if both parties informing him of the situation etc...

 anyway, hope you get it sorted.


----------



## qusp

me too, since nc8000 is a past customer of theirs as well, you would hope they could do something; I mean I get it too, but you would hope that with nc8000 actually being the one whos doing it that they could make an exception. and they better not blacklist mne when I informed them that was what I was doing and they were too slow to stop me. havent heard from nc8000, hope its OK, hope he doesnt get blacklisted.

 edit: well I stopped him in time; but its still in the works, maybe we can sort it I dunno. whats most frustrating is what I will be waiting for is a blody cable!!! i'm not at all used to having to rely on someone else for a cable, if I need one for a specific purpose all I have to do is go downstairs and make one with the best materials around. and here I am struggling to get one from canada. man i'm gonna have to see about getting some raw fibre so i'm not in this position agaiomn. doesnt look too hard and nothing in the way of special tools are really needed according to EFN


----------



## dazzer1975

there was a website I stumbled upon a few weeks ago which sold all the parts required to make your own optical cable, basically pressure fitted together, no soldering obviously, no special tools required, get the parts, make your cable.

 The bad part is I didn't think much about it at the time and haven't bookmarked the site, and im having a right time of it trying to find it again


----------



## nc8000

Emailed Joseph at SysConcept and he'll make an exception since I have ordered from them 3 times before so a happy ending to this story


----------



## qusp

yes happy indeed. now I just need to make you a cable; PM me with specs. perhaps a new iphone LOD with the new set-up to avoid the airplane mode prompt?? whatever man; helped me a great deal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now I just need to get a few extra op-amps looks like its time to PM hiflight


----------



## Anouk

Hey qusp, Sure, pm hiflight he is a great guy and I hope you will buy stuff from him. I still dont like it though that sysconcept does not have paypal, truly paypal is the easiest method of payment from nl. I have a credit card here somewhere although i have not used it here for a while because the fraud department is really aggressive. if someone charges my card then i will immediately get called by fraud dept. If I am not at home when they call my card will get closed and I have to call them to get a new one....
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes happy indeed. now I just need to make you a cable; PM me with specs. perhaps a new iphone LOD with the new set-up to avoid the airplane mode prompt?? whatever man; helped me a great deal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now I just need to get a few extra op-amps looks like its time to PM hiflight_

 

And Joseph has shipped all your bits and bobs. Very fast service as always.

 And x2 on hiflight. He made me a very nice chipset for my old D1


----------



## dazzer1975

x3, hiflight is a real gentleman and a pleasure to communicate with.


----------



## Surrealsky

im very pleased with my d10, burn in at 300 hours mark and it's sound very pleasing, detailed to my ears with the pfe's


----------



## qusp

yeah I PM'ed HiFlight a few hours ago, man i'm getting sooo excited; its a whole new ballgame of gadgets and detail in music. cant wait. my lisa is gonna be soooo happy. already sorted myself with new cables well at least I know how to make an analogue one LOL.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, Good luck with the d10 Qusp! I am actually quite happy that I cant opamproll otherwise the tinkering would NEVER stop. lol. I bet you will have fun with it though. Wont you be using the gamma dac with your lisa? There is now also the dac-only version of the pico I think although I bet its still more expewnsive then the d10.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah I PM'ed HiFlight a few hours ago, man i'm getting sooo excited; its a whole new ballgame of gadgets and detail in music. cant wait. my lisa is gonna be soooo happy. already sorted myself with new cables well at least I know how to make an analogue one LOL._

 

My favorite opamps from Hiflight are the 2228 and the LTC6241HV


----------



## clasam

Hmm...the DAC in my D10 seems to have gone out for some reason...the amp still works, but I don't get any audio from either the USB or Optical...well, I guess it's time to email iBasso


----------



## Anouk

Even though I am at home I am listening with th eibasso and pro900 to give them both some burn in. I wonder if anyone else has noticed some channel imbalance at low volume settings? I have mine always at high gain and I notice a bit of imbalance if Ihave the volume low.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## HiFlight

I have no imbalance in my D10 even at the very lowest volume settings.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm...the DAC in my D10 seems to have gone out for some reason...the amp still works, but I don't get any audio from either the USB or Optical...well, I guess it's time to email iBasso_

 

There is nothing plugged into your Aux in/out jack, is there? 
 Also, check that there is only one input on the back, either the optical, coax or USB. Sometimes more than one cable connected to the inputs fools the microprocessor that handles the inputs. 

 Good luck! 

 Ron


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is nothing plugged into your Aux in/out jack, is there? 
 Also, check that there is only one input on the back, either the optical, coax or USB. Sometimes more than one cable connected to the inputs fools the microprocessor that handles the inputs. 

 Good luck! 

 Ron_

 

Yeah, I only plug in the headphone without anything in the aux in/out and I've tried the usb by itself as well as the optical in by itself. The amp portion works perfectly, however.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, Good luck with the d10 Qusp! I am actually quite happy that I cant opamproll otherwise the tinkering would NEVER stop. lol. I bet you will have fun with it though. Wont you be using the gamma dac with your lisa? There is now also the dac-only version of the pico I think although I bet its still more expewnsive then the d10.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

yes I can see I will be a terminally sick op-amp cycler 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 yes i'll be using the gamma1, but its not quite finished for portable use as I dont have the USB/DC battery pack sorted out. the gamma1 is usually USB powered in standard build, but of course thats no use to me; i'm not using a laptop ever with it; dont have one. so that also rules out the pico dac as there are no portable sources with usb output for audio other than a few eepeecee's and of course regular laptops. also i'm not actually a big fan of audio over USB; I much prefer coax or optical. besides with the output stage modified like I have the case for my gamma1 is quite a bit larger than the D10; and since when has it been head-fi to have only one portable dac anyway??


----------



## HK_sends

I'm a lemming! I'm a Lemming! I'm a Lemming! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I just jumped off the cliff like everyone else...

 ...But at least I'll have a heck of a DAC/Amp to listen to when I'm falling! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait to check out the D10!

 Cheers!
 -HK sends


----------



## Anouk

Hello, well the imbalance is no problem luckily, its only there at low volumes that I odnt listen to, or it might just be me.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Anouk

Hi all you sleeping usaers. I just talked to my head-fi friend hooran who is a nightowl, just like me. He has the seem slight volume imbalance problem that i have with my d10, no wonder because they were bought together. The left side is slightly louder at low volumes/high gain.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm a lemming! I'm a Lemming! I'm a Lemming! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I just jumped off the cliff like everyone else...

 ...But at least I'll have a heck of a DAC/Amp to listen to when I'm falling! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait to check out the D10!

 Cheers!
 -HK sends_

 

I suppose you paid the obligatory $5000USD for an iriver too? luckily I scored one on the cheap.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suppose you paid the obligatory $5000USD for an iriver too? luckily I scored one on the cheap._

 

Nah, not quite that expensive. I paid about $150 including shipping for one in a very good state.


----------



## Anouk

Hello,
 I was in the library again today with my ibasso d10 and ultrasone pro900 and ibasso d10. I got some interferrance from mobile phone stoday. Not too much but it wasnt too close either. I had a table to my own and still at times i could hear some static from mobile phones being used (not htat this is allowed in the library).
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## HiFlight

The stock ADA4841-2 LR opamp is the most affected by outside RF. You might try the LTC6241HV and see if that eliminates the interference for you.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suppose you paid the obligatory $5000USD for an iriver too? luckily I scored one on the cheap._

 

No...my cliff and budget aren't quite that big. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But I do have a 3.5mm digital out on my Asus notebook.
 I just need to get a mini to RCA cable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
 -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,
 I had a table to my own and still at times i could hear some static from mobile phones being used (not htat this is allowed in the library).
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

If a mobile phone is powered on, even when not being used, it will periodically signal the nearest tower.

 Cheers!
 -HK sends


----------



## x3sphere

Awesome. Just checked DHL tracking and I should receive my D10 today. That was pretty quick, since I placed an order just 3 days ago. Much faster shipment compared to when I ordered the D2.


----------



## Surrealsky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x3sphere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome. Just checked DHL tracking and I should receive my D10 today. That was pretty quick, since I placed an order just 3 days ago. Much faster shipment compared to when I ordered the D2._

 

enjoy it! i know i did!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,
 I was in the library again today with my ibasso d10 and ultrasone pro900 and ibasso d10. I got some interferrance from mobile phone stoday. Not too much but it wasnt too close either. I had a table to my own and still at times i could hear some static from mobile phones being used (not htat this is allowed in the library).
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Buy some EM blocking cards from Quick Bridge Solutions - EM Shield for iPhone and wrap the D10 in them, or put the D10 in an anti-static micro chip/hard drive bag.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The stock ADA4841-2 LR opamp is the most affected by outside RF. You might try the LTC6241HV and see if that eliminates the interference for you._

 

It reduces the buzz but doesn't eliminate it. I left the LTC6241HV in my D10 for that reason.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, a bag would work. You know I take mine all over the place and have a rare problem, that I don't really consider a problem. Frankly what bothers me much more is the fact that we are constantly being bombarded with signals of UHF, EMI, RF, gamma rays, UV, etc. Maybe the D10 can act as a detector for one of these! :^)

 iBasso D10, headphone amplifier, DAC and potential radiation hazard detector.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Frankly what bothers me much more is the fact that we are constantly being bombarded with signals of UHF, EMI, RF, gamma rays, UV, etc._

 

Not me! Thanks to my tin-foil hat and lead lined underwear! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Cheers!
 -HK sends

_...and now my D10 detector!_


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nah, not quite that expensive. I paid about $150 including shipping for one in a very good state._

 

 I guess no-one got that I was being a little facetious
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well only a little I suppose thats why people may not have realized. Now thats a sad state of affairs. I paid $125 for my iHP120 plus shipping; its in pretty good condition as well.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* 
_No...my cliff and budget aren't quite that big. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But I do have a 3.5mm digital out on my Asus notebook.
 I just need to get a mini to RCA cable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ummm...waaahh?? not sure what you mean; if you have a digital out on mini (toslink combo jack I would think) from your laptop, you will need an optical cable; not a mini to RCA. I dont think I have ever seen a mini coax output. but please do enlighten me; always nice to know a new connector type LOL what a geek

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* 
_If a mobile phone is powered on, even when not being used, it will periodically signal the nearest tower.

 Cheers!
 -HK sends_

 

ping...ping....ping....translated 'yes, i'm still here, send calls this way'

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x3sphere* 
_Awesome. Just checked DHL tracking and I should receive my D10 today. That was pretty quick, since I placed an order just 3 days ago. Much faster shipment compared to when I ordered the D2._

 

not even a confirmation of shipment here; I emailed them using the button on the website to see when I might expect it to ship 2 days ago when I ordered and nothing back yet.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jamato* 
_Yes, a bag would work. You know I take mine all over the place and have a rare problem, that I don't really consider a problem. Frankly what bothers me much more is the fact that we are constantly being bombarded with signals of UHF, EMI, RF, gamma rays, UV, etc. Maybe the D10 can act as a detector for one of these! :^)

 iBasso D10, headphone amplifier, DAC and potential radiation hazard detector._

 

man I hope I dont have this problem after it being my biggest fear about buying one. I dont have any trouble with my iphone normally, but well see; at least I have enough op-amps to ward it off with hey HiFlight LOL??

 if all else fails i'll just tuck it into the codpiece i've been sewing together out of old ipod logic board bags to protect the family jewels. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 oops ladies present


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ummm...waaahh?? not sure what you mean; if you have a digital out on mini (toslink combo jack I would think) from your laptop, you will need an optical cable; not a mini to RCA. I dont think I have ever seen a mini coax output. but please do enlighten me; always nice to know a new connector type LOL what a geek_

 

It's odd to me too, but my headphone out jack (1/8" mini) can be used as a SPDIF Out (Asus N80VN-GP011C Notebook). The notebook even has a HDMI port, but no optical, hence the need for the mini to RCA cable.

 I knew you were being facetious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
 -HK sends


----------



## qusp

whaaa it only says spdif; doesnt say coax; so it'll be optical spdif covers optical and coax. just like the iHP120 and iHP140 have spdif on mini jack combo with optical. I would be very surprized if it was coax; and yhey would have said I think. actually I just did a search for digital coax plus your model # and it drew a blank. all the latest macs have a combo jack like this too and its optical. who told you you had to get a mini to RCA?? I mean i'm open to being wrong on this; but it really doesnt add up. soprry not arguing; just dont want you to buy a cable that wont work.

 edit: you learn something new every day never come accross one of them before. well now I know. make sure its a mono mini though at the minijack end; and if its anything like the standard coaxial connection you will have to make sure its 75 ohms and well shielded

 or get this http://www.sandberg.it/product.aspx?id=506-00 (or something like that that is more reasonably priced) and then use any normal digital coax cable (RCA) but yes to make your own it needs to be 75 ohms and well shielded


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_whaaa it only says spdif; doesnt say coax; so it'll be optical spdif covers optical and coax. just like the iHP120 and iHP140 have spdif on mini jack combo with optical. I would be very surprized if it was coax; and yhey would have said I think. actually I just did a search for digital coax plus your model # and it drew a blank. all the latest macs have a combo jack like this too and its optical. who told you you had to get a mini to RCA?? I mean i'm open to being wrong on this; but it really doesnt add up. soprry not arguing; just dont want you to buy a cable that wont work._

 

Nah, I don't think you are arguing. I appreciate the help. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The manual only says SPDIF (and headphone) out. It doesn't mention optical. I have a little optical/coax adapter from my home computer's Auzentech Prelude Soundcard. I plugged it in and there was no light from the socket. I used a flashlight to look in the socket and there was only small metal strips for contacts, nothing that appeared to be optical-related.

 Don't worry though, I have an old Creative Labs Speaker set that used the same kind of cable I'm talking about. I'll try it out before I go looking for a Head-Fi listener-quality cable.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
 -HK sends


----------



## qusp

sounds like youve ghot ot it under control; check my previous post; edited it to include a link and some more info.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sounds like youve ghot ot it under control; check my previous post; edited it to include a link and some more info._

 

Cool! Thanks for the link and the info! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends

 edit: _You know, I may already have one of those lying around...I amassed quite the SoundBlaster card collection over the years! _


----------



## nc8000

I'd forgotten that I ever knew about that plug but I actually have one of them somewhere. Can't say I've ever used it.


----------



## lowlevelowl

Anyone have any experience with the D10 and Ultrasone HFI-780? I already have the D10 to use as a bedside/semi-portable rig with my netbook. Was thinking of getting the HFI-780s to complement this rig... looking for a closed, preferrably foldable headphone for travel and in bed listening when I don't want to disturb the SO. Would the 780s have good synergy with the D10?

 Thanks...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I think the stock D10 would work well with the 780, but if it doesn't you can roll opamps to tune it to work better with them.


----------



## jamato8

The 780's would work fine but I prefer the 750's. Smoother and more full sound and better balanced unless you recable the 780's.


----------



## qib

Is the amp section of the D10 worth the money? I'm asking because i've already got a standalone dac, and to get the voyager would be alot easier where i'm from. Although i wouldnt mind having a portable dac/amp lying around. What is the quality of the amp compared to portable amps costing less? Thanks.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qib* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the amp section of the D10 worth the money? I'm asking because i've already got a standalone dac, and to get the voyager would be alot easier where i'm from. Although i wouldnt mind having a portable dac/amp lying around. What is the quality of the amp compared to portable amps costing less? Thanks._

 

The amp section is one of the best portables around.


----------



## nc8000

Yes the D10 amp section is very good. To me it was just slightly inferior to the RudiStor XJ-03 which is a $499 amp. Haven't been able to compare it directly to anything else.


----------



## qib

Thanks, since i dont really need the dac, how does the amp section compare to the p3 heron. Does it differ in amp circuitry. Or does the d10 simply sound better? This is for grados by the way.


----------



## x3sphere

Got my D10 and am really enjoying it thus far. One question though... I thought it supported 24-bit/96KHz sample rates over USB? When I try to change this in Windows it only lets me go up to 16-bit/48KHz. I have tried to use the ASIO driver but same thing, recognizes the USB device only as 16-bit/48KHz.

 Does 24-bit/96KHz only work over optical?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x3sphere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my D10 and am really enjoying it thus far. One question though... I thought it supported 24-bit/96KHz sample rates over USB? When I try to change this in Windows it only lets me go up to 16-bit/48KHz. I have tried to use the ASIO driver but same thing, recognizes the USB device only as 16-bit/48KHz.

 Does 24-bit/96KHz only work over optical?_

 

generic USB doesnt support 24/96 only devices with a proprietary USB driver will support bitrates that high over USB. the DAC1 being one of them. I dont have my D10 yet, but I would actually think that only the spdif will if its like most devices. portable dacs like the pico only achieve 24/96 by upsampling


----------



## nc8000

I think headphoneaddict earlier in the thread mentioned that 24/96 is only supported on optical and coax. iBasso themselves have only tested it up 24/96 due to source constraint but said thar the actual dac chip is speced to 24/192


----------



## HK_sends

Ordered mine on Thurs. Got the DHL shipping notice on Saturday.

 Can't wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Sorry! Double post...

 Ordered mine on Thurs. Got the DHL shipping notice on Saturday.

 Can't wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## x3sphere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_generic USB doesnt support 24/96 only devices with a proprietary USB driver will support bitrates that high over USB. the DAC1 being one of them. I dont have my D10 yet, but I would actually think that only the spdif will if its like most devices. portable dacs like the pico only achieve 24/96 by upsampling_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think headphoneaddict earlier in the thread mentioned that 24/96 is only supported on optical and coax. iBasso themselves have only tested it up 24/96 due to source constraint but said thar the actual dac chip is speced to 24/192_

 

Thanks for the info. Too bad it cannot do 24/96 over USB, but to be honest it's not a huge issue, I don't have many 24/96 source files on my computer anyway.

 I'm very impressed with how well the D10 drives HD650. Really brings out the airy soundstage. Bass is well defined and controlled. Noticeable improvement over the D2 Boa.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ordered mine on Thurs. Got the DHL shipping notice on Saturday.

 Can't wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends_

 

when I saw this post I was a little annoyed LOL. as I hadnt received anything from DHL or any reply to teh email I sent after I ordered. But when I saw your post I thought ..hmmmm... he's ordered on the same day as me, so maybe mine it nearly here as well, regardless of not getting anything from DHL. so I thought about the fact that I had sent the email from ibasso's site and therefor wouldnt be in my known addresses and being from asia there was a chance my junk filter caught it. and sure enough in my email was a short and simpke email from ibasso telling me that my order had shipped and with a tracking number 





 its here and cleared, so i'll get it tomorrow yay. now I just need the sysconcept cable to get here and hiflight's care package. man I went a little overboard with the op-amps and browndogs for each one. unsoldered of course.I must say thats pretty quick shipping; if only they were a little more organized with the website they would be pretty much perfect.


----------



## Paddy855

I received my D10 two days ago. Have been listening through its USB DAC so far. Now I wanted to try out the white optical/digital cable that came with the amp, but I haven't been able to figure out how I can plug it into the optical input on the back plate of the D10. The little hole in this black plastic thing is just not deep enough (only about 0,5-1,0 mm)... Please help.


----------



## nc8000

The black plastic thing in the optical input on the amp is a dust cover that you just pull of before plugging the toslink cable in


----------



## Paddy855

Now I got it. Thank you very much.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_when I saw this post I was a little annoyed LOL. as I hadnt received anything from DHL or any reply to teh email I sent after I ordered. But when I saw your post I thought ..hmmmm... he's ordered on the same day as me, so maybe mine it nearly here as well, regardless of not getting anything from DHL. so I thought about the fact that I had sent the email from ibasso's site and therefor wouldnt be in my known addresses and being from asia there was a chance my junk filter caught it. and sure enough in my email was a short and simpke email from ibasso telling me that my order had shipped and with a tracking number 





 its here and cleared, so i'll get it tomorrow yay. now I just need the sysconcept cable to get here and hiflight's care package. man I went a little overboard with the op-amps and browndogs for each one. unsoldered of course.I must say thats pretty quick shipping; if only they were a little more organized with the website they would be pretty much perfect._

 

Yea, all I got was the DHL number from iBasso. I figured that so many people were getting their D10's a few days later, that it wouldn't be too long before mine showed up.

 Here's hoping...
 -HK sends


----------



## qusp

what do they give you; a toslink to toslink cable or a mini to toslink cable?? apparently mine is with the delivery courier yay


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what do they give you; a toslink to toslink cable or a mini to toslink cable?? apparently mine is with the delivery courier yay_

 

With the courier? It Sunday and evening. :^)


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the courier? It Sunday and evening. :^)_

 

not here it isnt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I guess you still havent got your head around the fact that this is an international forum hey?? LOL. its 1.26pm Monday here in OZ


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_not here it isnt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess you still havent got your head around the fact that this is an international forum hey?? LOL. its 1.26pm Monday here in OZ_

 

I have lived a number of places around the world but wherever you go, there you are. Sure I knew where you are. Now get busy and get some of them there toads.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have lived a number of places around the world but wherever you go, there you are. Sure I knew where you are. Now get busy and get some of them there toads._

 


 hehe..not so many of them here in Brisbane, but plenty up north. besides I like to lick them, why would I kill them??? jk


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what do they give you; a toslink to toslink cable or a mini to toslink cable?? apparently mine is with the delivery courier yay_

 






 Toslink-toslink. The D1 also came with a coax cable.


----------



## qusp

OMG!!! this little thing rocks; running t via coax from my RME FF400 if this is what my portable rig is gonna sound like once I get the sysconcept, i'm wrapped even before I try with lisa. Blowing my mind with Juno reactor as I type.

 a couple of things though; my front panel already had a small scratch on it straight out of the box on the face too. I dont want to pay to send it back and I dont want to be without it while I wait. have asked if they could just send me a new faceplate. I wouldnt mind so much, but the resale value took a hit even before I used it. I just sold my pico after having it for 7 months without one scratch, I look after my stuff.

 also a more trivial thing. the mini to mini cable is one of the funniest things I think i've ever seen


----------



## qusp

bass impact is unheard-of for a portable through lisa... just tried now.

 should really be burning in the amp, but the dac is so nice. pity I cant run-in the amp at the same time through my IEMs. the dac is still beaten by my RME, but so it should be at over $1300USD the DAC performance of the RME is above the D10, but the headphone out on the D10 is slightly better with low impedance HPs. the RME run to the lisa from lineout is superior, but for portable i'm very happy.

 so far I like it straight out of the box, although it really did show quite marked improvements in the bass in the first 5-6hrs of burn-in. when I first plugged it in it was nice, but a little peaky and bass was a bit polite. but just now before I swapped to the lisa the slam was getting there and the rest was opening up a bit. still much better through the lisa though


----------



## Mystere

Since this device also works as a usb soundcard, would you just plug your pc speakers into the aux out? How does it sound for people who are using it for both headphones and their pc speakers?


----------



## nc8000

I use it with my powered pc speakers when I'm in the home office. My speakers don't have a volume control and the Windows Vista master volume control dont work with the D10 so I plug the cable to the speakers in to the headphone out and so use the D10 as a preamp using the volume control on the D10 and it sounds very good and better than the D1 in the same setup did.


----------



## HK_sends

That's cool! I didn't realize the D10 would work with speakers.

 -HK sends


----------



## Mystere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use it with my powered pc speakers when I'm in the home office. My speakers don't have a volume control and the Windows Vista master volume control dont work with the D10 so I plug the cable to the speakers in to the headphone out and so use the D10 as a preamp using the volume control on the D10 and it sounds very good and better than the D1 in the same setup did._

 

So since my speakers have a volume control, I would just plug it into the aux out then? If you have speakers and headphones plugged in, would it just default to the headphones then or play through both? Thanks.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mystere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So since my speakers have a volume control, I would just plug it into the aux out then? If you have speakers and headphones plugged in, would it just default to the headphones then or play through both? Thanks._

 

If you have a separate speaker volume control, then the aux out is the way to go.

 Since the D10 has an internal automatic "switch" to determine the proper input/output to use, your unit may be confused by having the aux out and the headphone out both plugged in at the same time. You will have to try it out and see if it's a problem.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you have a separate speaker volume control, then the aux out is the way to go.

 Since the D10 has an internal automatic "switch" to determine the proper input/output to use, your unit may be confused by having the aux out and the headphone out both plugged in at the same time. You will have to try it out and see if it's a problem._

 

I thought that if both were plugged in, the unit would go to the aux out and turn off the headphone jack...?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's cool! I didn't realize the D10 would work with speakers.

 -HK sends_

 

it'll work with any thing that has a line level input, no way would it work if it had to amplify the speakers, but with anything that works under its own power then its all sweet. aux/line out is def the way to go for this though.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought that if both were plugged in, the unit would go to the aux out and turn off the headphone jack...?_

 

If headphones are connected they disable line out


----------



## Mystere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If headphones are connected they disable line out_

 

Perfect! Thanks for the responses guys - this little device sounds great.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it'll work with any thing that has a line level input, no way would it work if it had to amplify the speakers, but with anything that works under its own power then its all sweet. aux/line out is def the way to go for this though._

 

Works for me...so to speak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 And guess what I found at my door today (Mon)?
 Yep, a DHL attempted delivery slip 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So I guess I've got to wait one more day...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Works for me...so to speak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



*And guess what I found at my door today (Mon)?
 Yep, a DHL attempted delivery slip 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*
 So I guess I've got to wait one more day...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends_

 

WTH were you doing man??!!! why did you go out?? or were you just asleep and didnt hear them or had your headphones on and didnt here them?? I was waiting by the bloody door, no way was I going to miss mine. silly silly man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 NA na__ na NA_ na i'm loving mine. after switching between it and my VCAP rig a bit today, I have to say that i'm not going to be able to sell all my ipods. the VCAP DIYMOD still has its place. the D10 >LISA III rig is brilliantly detailed and precise; with texture and layering like no other portable rig I have ever heard, but still the VCAP has musicality in spades that the D10 is lagging slighty behind with. also the soundstage of the VCAp rig is a little wider at this stage too. will see after burn-in, but that shouldnt be so much of a factor running the lisa via D10 line-out. the D10 isnt fatiguing though, its not detailed in that way, I could see it would be almost unreal with ety's or similar. the woody jena recabled D2000 synergize with this combo amazingly. they have the bass to cope with the bass detail the D10 puts out. But I can see the ES3X that have my name on them, pretty much completing this rig apart from more storage on the iriver. dont really know where I could go from there actually. guess i'll start spending more money on my home rig. 
 Until someone brings out a modern Dap with optical or coax output. my portable journey is at an end as soon as my customs arrive.

 except maybe a portacode instead of the Lisa III, but thats a while off being ready yet.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WTH were you doing man??!!!_

 

Uh...working...so I can afford all these toys.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## qusp

ah LOL, I forget not everyone works at home doing this stuff. head-fi is my job


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_snip/....
 Until someone brings out a modern Dap with optical or coax output. my portable journey is at an end as soon as my customs arrive..../snip 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

LOL I cant believe I even wrote that, no-one including me believes that


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ah LOL, I forget not everyone works at home doing this stuff. head-fi is my job 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's my second job. But alas, we are mere volunteering candy strippers, all hoping to become doctors someday


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's my second job. But alas, we are mere volunteering candy strippers, all hoping to become doctors someday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

hehe well sometimes I still feel like a student I tell ya. But every now and again the teacher throws me a bone. nice job you are doing there man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and admirable that you donate your time to a good cause. BTW the new look of the forums is coming together well. hows the transition going your end??


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's my second job. But alas, we are mere volunteering candy strippers, all hoping to become doctors someday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey Hey! You finally came out. But I never really enjoyed watching guy strippers. Good luck though.


----------



## HK_sends

It's Here! It's Here!
 I finally got my D10! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ...just as I'm walking out the door to go back to work...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...only four more agonizing hours...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ BTW the new look of the forums is coming together well. hows the transition going your end??_

 

Thanks. I like most of the improvements but I'm still up in the air about the horizontal post format.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's Here! It's Here!
 I finally got my D10!_

 

Good things come to those who wait (most of the time).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Hey! You finally came out. But I never really enjoyed watching guy strippers. Good luck though._

 

He he. Good thing that the stripes (strips) are horizontal, though. Vertical strips are unflattering to most men over 35!


----------



## jamato8

On the post format, I really don't care for it. It seems to take a lot of room for little information.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I like the horizontal post format.


----------



## immtbiker

It's OK on my 24" iMac, but is real tough on my 13" Dell laptop.

 Sorry for the OT. Back to the Candy Stripes.


----------



## abitdeef

One quick question, is the amp section as good as the mustang p51? I probably would never use the dac.


----------



## HK_sends

From one Candy Striper to another...

 Ok, I'm charging the battery. There are two lights on the back...a little red one under the charging selector switch and a larger orange one above the USB jack. They both lit up at first but now the little red one is out. Is that the charging light in the instructions? The paper says the orange one should go out. Which lamp will indicated fully charged when it goes out?

 Thanks in advance...looking forward to listening to this soon. It seems really well built.

 Regards,
 -HK sends

 PS - The charge switch is set to "on".


----------



## jamato8

The orange one stays lit as long as the USB is plugged in. The red one is for the charging and goes out when the batteries are fully charged, most of the time.

 First! I got it First! :^)


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The orange one stays lit as long as the USB is plugged in. The red one is for the charging and goes out when the batteries are fully charged, most of the time._

 

OK, that's cool. Thanks Jamato8!

 It's time to PLAY!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From one Candy Striper to another...

 Ok, I'm charging the battery. There are two lights on the back...a little red one under the charging selector switch and a larger orange one above the USB jack. They both lit up at first but now the little red one is out. Is that the charging light in the instructions? The paper says the orange one should go out. Which lamp will indicated fully charged when it goes out?

 Thanks in advance...looking forward to listening to this soon. It seems really well built.

 Regards,
 -HK sends

 PS - The charge switch is set to "on"._

 

You figured it out correctly - the red went out when charging is done, the orange one says you have USB connected.

 EDIT - Head-fi was slow, spinning beachball for 4 minutes, then my post went through and two replies that weren't there when I replied were there all of a sudden.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From one Candy Striper to another...

 Ok, I'm charging the battery. There are two lights on the back...a little red one under the charging selector switch and a larger orange one above the USB jack. They both lit up at first but now the little red one is out. Is that the charging light in the instructions? The paper says the orange one should go out. Which lamp will indicated fully charged when it goes out?

 Thanks in advance...looking forward to listening to this soon. It seems really well built.

 Regards,
 -HK sends

 PS - The charge switch is set to "on"._

 

You're ready to roll. Red light is the charging light. Also, you don't have to wait for a full charge to use it.

 It is recommended to run full discharges a couple of times before going for partially full charges, in order to maximize the batteries. This means, switch the charge to off, run down the battery until the front LED starts blinking, and charge it all the way up. 

 Have fun


----------



## clasam

Wow, four responses in four minutes. I shoulda taken typing class more seriously


----------



## HK_sends

Roger That!

 Thanks Everyone!

 ...entering the D10 zone! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, four responses in four minutes. I shoulda taken typing class more seriously_

 

It's funny...I got three as I was responding to the first.

 -HK sends


----------



## qusp

the recommendation to charge several full cycles before starting on partial discharges is superstition. batteries havent had a memory effect for years.


----------



## wdoerr

HK_sends;5571215 said:
			
		

> From one Candy Striper to another...
> 
> Ok, I'm charging the battery. There are two lights on the back...a little red one under the charging selector switch and a larger orange one above the USB jack. They both lit up at first but now the little red one is out. Is that the charging light in the instructions? The paper says the orange one should go out. Which lamp will indicated fully charged when it goes out?
> 
> ...


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the recommendation to charge several full cycles before starting on partial discharges is superstition. batteries havent had a memory effect for years._

 

Good to know! Thanks!


----------



## bakhtiar

I always let the *charge* switch at ON position. The small red LED under switch always lit up, when I am using it. A quick toggling from ON to OFF and to ON back, the red LED will lit off. Mmm .. I hope mine is not defective....


----------



## jamato8

No, that is just the way it works.

 First!


----------



## bakhtiar

Ok, TQ. So, during operation, the little red charge LED do lit up, even it connected to my laptop via USB for more than 6 hours, everyday.

 I also charged D10, with USB charger; with the volume control was in OFF position, the small red charge LED do lit off automatically after several hours. 


 Thank you


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wdoerr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And the front red light is the one that blinks when low on power._

 

Gotcha, thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT - Head-fi was slow, spinning beachball for 4 minutes, then my post went through and two replies that weren't there when I replied were there all of a sudden._

 

Now, those of us who know what a spinning beachball means, knows you have a Mac. Ah hah! Why is that important? I have no idea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...batteries havent had a memory effect for years._

 

I wish that was the case with me


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* 
_Ok, TQ. So, during operation, the little red charge LED do lit up, even it connected to my laptop via USB for more than 6 hours, everyday.

 I also charged D10, with USB charger; with the volume control was in OFF position, the small red charge LED do lit off automatically after several hours. 


 Thank you_

 

AFAIK, Like many other devices with a battery installed, will ALWAYS run off the battery, so the red light will always be on if you are using it while plugged in, as it will be constantly topping up the battery to replace the energy used by your use. so although it doesnt seem right, its perfectly logical given all the information.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* 
_I always let the charge switch at ON position. The small red LED under switch always lit up, when I am using it. A quick toggling from ON to OFF and to ON back, the red LED will lit off. Mmm .. I hope mine is not defective...._

 

 to extend the life of you battery, you should only have the charge switch in the on position until the battery finishes charging, so after 6hrs or whetever, switch the charge switch to off and run it on the internal battery. this way you arent constantly cycling the battery and the life of the battery will be longer. I have it on at the moment because i'm doing burn-in; but after a few hundred hours I will revert to only charging until its charged.




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now, those of us who know what a spinning beachball means, knows you have a Mac. Ah hah! Why is that important? I have no idea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 I wish that was the case with me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

well thats the way I understand it. the old ni-cads and older types of battery had a distinct memory effect, where if you only charged it half way or discharged it half way the first few times you used the battery, that would become the new limit for capacity. but AFAIK NIMH does not suffer from the memory effect. most people (including myself I admit) tend to err on the side of caution after many years of doing it, but FWIR and from personal experience it really has little to no effect.


----------



## jamato8

I think he was referring to "his" memory.


----------



## qusp

I wondered about that; wasnt sure though. and if you are immtbiker; I feel ya. man whats up with my comprehension and humour in here of late; first your dateline joke flew right over my head and now this. man I need sleep


----------



## jamato8

Sleep or some more gooood tunes. Turn the tunes up man. turn them UP> :^)


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...but AFAIK NIMH does not suffer from the memory effect. most people (including myself I admit) tend to err on the side of caution after many years of doing it, but FWIR and from personal experience it really has little to no effect._

 

...and I think the D10's battery is a Li-Ion/Li-Ion Polymer so any memory issues would be irrelevant.


----------



## HeadDoc

Ordered the D10 and Westone 3 IEMs. Rockboxed my 5th gen iPod 30gb last night and filled it with FLAC. I have not used this thing in years! Who knew I'd be getting use out of it after years of disuse and scorn. I am even looking at buying an 80gb 5.5g so that I can experiment on the 30gb (solid state, new battery, DIYmod?). 

 I'll be using the D10 as an external soundcard via USB. Playing mostly FLAC through the IEMs and a set of HD650s that have been amped by a Rega Ear for far to long.

 Thanks to everyone providing first hand experience to the forum. It's been a mammoth to read through, but I've benefited immensely! 

 Now, I need to go repair the holes in my pockets before my wife gets home.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadDoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Now, I need to go repair the holes in my pockets before my wife gets home._

 

Have you considered a little misdirection..maybe some flowers, a "spontaneous" nice dinner out...but that may make her more suspicious...

 Nevermind, don't listen to me, I'm still single.


----------



## h.rav

^ Lol.
 My GF is always suspicious whenever I have new toys, I can't hide the joy on my face.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadDoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ordered the D10 and Westone 3 IEMs. Rockboxed my 5th gen iPod 30gb last night and filled it with FLAC. I have not used this thing in years! Who knew I'd be getting use out of it after years of disuse and scorn. I am even looking at buying an 80gb 5.5g so that I can experiment on the 30gb (solid state, new battery, DIYmod?). 

 I'll be using the D10 as an external soundcard via USB. Playing mostly FLAC through the IEMs and a set of HD650s that have been amped by a Rega Ear for far to long.

 Thanks to everyone providing first hand experience to the forum. It's been a mammoth to read through, but I've benefited immensely! 

 Now, I need to go repair the holes in my pockets before my wife gets home._

 

Excellent purchases for the 3-post newbie! Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## battosai

I just bought the D10 last sunday, it was written out of stock, but my finger was tickling me and my credit card was laughing at me, so i pushed the button, as a "revenge". Today I got a mail from Ibasso saying that the amp has been shipped!
 morality, if you want one, buy one!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *battosai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought the D10 last sunday, it was written out of stock, but my finger was tickling me and my credit card was laughing at me, so i pushed the button, as a "revenge". Today I got a mail from Ibasso saying that the amp has been shipped!
 morality, if you want one, buy one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yea, mine only took four days (not counting the extra one I had to wait because I missed the delivery dude)!

 Well I finished charging it up (Thanks for the help everyone), plugged the USB into my laptop and watched the Dark Knight. The DAC is way better than the headphone out (even when running it through an amp). I like the fit and finish and the extra stuff iBasso sent. I forsee getting a lot of use out of the D10.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Burn-in shall commence tonight!

 -HK sends


----------



## HeadDoc

Good to hear that you are liking the iBasso, HK sends. Please let me know about use with the Cowon too. Enjoy!

 Again, and I don't know if this is said enough, thanks to the board members for their input, reviews, and comments. Now, will somebody own up to this mess that I'm in with my wife! I know that more then one of you are responsible!

 This forum is not WAF approved. (wife acceptance factor)


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadDoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This forum is not WAF approved. (wife acceptance factor)_

 

I thought this forum was WAF approved (Wallet Angry & Frustrated).


----------



## immtbiker

It *is *WAF if your wife is BrownieLady


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadDoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to hear that you are liking the iBasso, HK sends. Please let me know about use with the Cowon too. Enjoy!...

 This forum is not WAF approved. (wife acceptance factor)_

 

I will. I just didn't have any time to experiment (plus I need to see if I have a cable with usb mini plugs on both ends).

 My Wife doesn't mind me posting on the forum...keeps me out of bars...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ...oh, am I supposed to tell her about my toys too? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## bakhtiar

Here are some infos related to Li-ion Polymer battery

Complete Guide to Lithium Polymer Batteries and LiPo Failure Reports - spuorG CR
Lithium Polymer battery pack, Lithium polymer cell, Li po cell, Li po battery, protection circuit

 Li-Po is sensitive, and may explode if not properly charged. Examples: Exploded Dell laptops and handphones couple years ago,

 Talking about WAF (Wife Approval Factor). If you can afford to make yourself happy, then you also be able to make your partner/wife happy too. Since we share our happiness and sadness together with our partner, why not make her happy too, by buying her some gifts to make occupied for a while 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, IMHO. In my case, I bought 2 IEMs and 2 DAC/Amps in 2 months, and to be fair to her, I bought her things that she is likes, which I can afford too.

 So, before buy something for yourself, alway includes the cost to make her happy too.... 

 Final word: 
 PFEs = USD 139
 iBasso D10 = USD 275
 Her Present = USD 300
 Happiness = *PRICELESS*.



 Thank you...


----------



## Jaw007

I like the NWAF (NO Wife Approval Factor)


----------



## Surrealsky

grats on getting the d10!


----------



## qusp

i'm guessing the D10 is the 'slave' of whatever digital source it is connected to?? I asked this question of ibasso and havent received an answer yet. I say this because the sound quality I get out of the D10 while connected via optical to my RME FF400 is superior to the sound I get out of the iriver. its only marginal, but i'm pretty sure its different; will only be able to know for sure once I have spent some more time with it. the RME has a very good and rock solid clock that makes anything I clock off it sound better if I set the device to slave off the RME with the RME set to 'master'. There is nowhere on the D10 that allows the choice of slave or master, so it will default to one behavior or the other I assume. hopefully someone at ibasso can tell me which one.


----------



## bakhtiar

Hint: Jitter

 Logically, yes, D10 is in 'slave' mode. Why?

 Source -> FF400-SPDIF-> D10 

 As we can see here, D10 only *receiving* data from FF400. No clock info being sent to FF400. So, FF400 cannot be a slave.

 How about this.
 CD/DAT -optic/coax-> FF400 

 Here, clock/timing info can be from CD/DAT, and FF400 can be set as 'slave' mode.

 I remembered Sony CDP-R10 (cd transport) and DAS-R10 (dac) were connected using 2 digital link. 1 for audio data and 1 for clock sync, which DAS-R10 DAC is the master clock. 

 D10 is using CS8416 for digital input, and this chip has internal PLL filter to recover clock information from digital input/source.


 References:
 CS8416 datasheet : Page 53
 FireFace 400 manual : Page 21


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Talking about WAF (Wife Approval Factor). If you can afford to make yourself happy, then you also be able to make your partner/wife happy too. Since we share our happiness and sadness together with our partner, why not make her happy too, by buying her some gifts to make occupied for a while 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, IMHO. In my case, I bought 2 IEMs and 2 DAC/Amps in 2 months, and to be fair to her, I bought her things that she is likes, which I can afford too.
 ..._

 

Which prompted me to buy my wife a brand new $600.00 sofa set to replace the old one.....after I have been like spending quite a fortune on audio gadgets these few months.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hint: Jitter

 Logically, yes, D10 is in 'slave' mode. Why?

 Source -> FF400-SPDIF-> D10 

 As we can see here, D10 only *receiving* data from FF400. No clock info being sent to FF400. So, FF400 cannot be a slave.

 How about this.
 CD/DAT -optic/coax-> FF400 

 Here, clock/timing info can be from CD/DAT, and FF400 can be set as 'slave' mode.

 I remembered Sony CDP-R10 (cd transport) and DAS-R10 (dac) were connected using 2 digital link. 1 for audio data and 1 for clock sync, which DAS-R10 DAC is the master clock. 

 D10 is using CS8416 for digital input, and this chip has internal PLL filter to recover clock information from digital input/source.


 References:
 CS8416 datasheet : Page 53
 FireFace 400 manual : Page 21_

 

aha you are correct, i'm still in the mode of thinking like in my little logic studio where I would always have a midi stream somewhere along the line to set the clock by. and to be honest I never really got too far into ll that jazz with it as I started chefing right after I got the FF and never really had the time to play too much with it in that context. Most of my music is comprised of software synths/samples with a midi controller keyboard and analogue modeling synth (microkorg vocoder/synth module) (using midi so 2 way) a later version used USB, as many midi instruments do now.

 WHY?? because the D10 sounds superior when running off the FF400 and i'm guessing its because of the better quality clock its being supplied with. still sounds great, but not AS great, so initially I was a little let down when I got the sysconcept cables and it didnt sound as good as running from my home rig. initially I thought hmmm how can that be?? both are being sent a digital signal via optical; same source material etc. but yeah I guess its the clock. the RME tends to make even the crappiest digital devices sound better by slaving them. case in point I used to have a POC behringer ADA8000 8 channel mic/pre/line ADAT interface on loan and if the ADA8000 was set to master it sounded like most behringer products do.....crap, but set to slave off the fireface it was a great piece of budget kit, the pres werent even half bad really; one of their better products.

 but after spending some more time with the D10 today I stopped being disappointed as I was able to take it out on the road with me during my morning walk to get milk and having this quality SQ out of a portable was very nice in the quiet of morning and no-one around. so its all good; what did I expect I guess. plus with a bit of op-amp rolling when my package from hi-flight turns up, maybe I can even improve upon this great little piece of kit. looking forward to trying out the AD746 in it. 

 so yeah thanks for setting me straight there; wasnt thinking straight there at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 knew that was probably the issue, but didnt think it through

 also I see now your WHY?? was rhetorical LOL


----------



## qusp

i'm still amazed how well KSC75 scale with source/amp and the synergy here is pretty amazing listening to goldfrappe


----------



## dazzer1975

ksc 75's are utterly jaw dropping (when you consider their price)


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ksc 75's are utterly jaw dropping (when you consider their price)_

 

X2!! and the kramer mod is genius!! add an SPC recable and wow they sing. I love the soundstage sooo much they pretty much define the word 'musical; sure they might not be as refined as some, but there's just soo much to like


----------



## jamato8

Yes, I find the PortaPros, after my mods, very fine and steal at the price for the sound quality, especially as a small portable. Great fun when out and having a true hard drive to an optical input dac. I'm not sure how much, for portable use, better it can get. It's all good.


----------



## dazzer1975

Im not sure id spc recable them, although that might might be good if kramer modding them around the edges more so than the middle and with replacement earpads to increase distance from ear to driver.

 I took too much material away from the center of the driver cover during the kramer mod, so needed a warmer cable than spc.

 I tell you what though, I would like to hear a set hd650's with a pure silver cable, I dont know if they would trash them or make them joyous to listen to. Might be good to find out.

 Tell me what its like when you do it lmao


----------



## jamato8

They are ok but not my favorite. I used to make and sell some very good IC's of pure dead soft silver. In fact you now read about "dead soft" silver being used. The term has been around for a long time but not in audio. I coined this in audio back in the early 90's when I started making and selling cables. Anyway, I made some nice silver wires for the HD650's and wasn't totally crazy about the sound and I like the silver I use.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are ok but not my favorite. I used to make and sell some very good IC's of pure dead soft silver. In fact you now read about "dead soft" silver being used. The term has been around for a long time but not in audio. I coined this in audio back in the early 90's when I started making and selling cables. Anyway, I made some nice silver wires for the HD650's and wasn't totally crazy about the sound and I like the silver I use._

 

Ah right, thats a shame, I like "the idea" of a silver cable for the hd650's, guess thats also another plus of the 650's though, you can just swap out a cable if it isnt to your liking without too much hassle.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are ok but not my favorite. I used to make and sell some very good IC's of pure dead soft silver. In fact you now read about "dead soft" silver being used. The term has been around for a long time but not in audio. I coined this in audio back in the early 90's when I started making and selling cables. Anyway, I made some nice silver wires for the HD650's and wasn't totally crazy about the sound and I like the silver I use._

 

only silver that I have heard goes nicely with HD600 is piccolino 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Darkopi will attest to that. 

 but you are right dazzer, i'm sure it will happen at some point in my journey 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and yes I took more material out from around the edges of the mod to account for the brightness of the SPC; works really well. Mum loves the set i gave her for christmas too for her morning meditation. call me cheap, but IMO sound this good should always be welcome. also wasnt the only present either hehe. got a tea set as well. the koss were just because I had heard her whingeing about the crappy HP she had been using. now i just need to get her some donor HP for a headband as she wears them so much they get a bit uncomfortable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I dare not let her hear the D10


----------



## jamato8

Well that is what is important. Knowing the cost of silver though, my feeling is that people are overcharged.


----------



## qusp

hehe well piccolino doesnt come cheap thats for sure. I have some and love it. not one of my products for sale.. I wish I had that much; nah I repurposed (read chopped up) another cable to make some bits and pieces of portable for my own use


----------



## qusp

that was a nasty/spikey 'question' ...'damned if you do and damned if you dont' comes to mind. no harm done though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think its a matter of beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_only silver that I have heard goes nicely with HD600 is piccolino 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Darkopi will attest to that. 

 but you are right dazzer, i'm sure it will happen at some point in my journey 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and yes I took more material out from around the edges of the mod to account for the brightness of the SPC; works really well. Mum loves the set i gave her for christmas too for her morning meditation. call me cheap, but IMO sound this good should always be welcome. also wasnt the only present either hehe. got a tea set as well. the koss were just because I had heard her whingeing about the crappy HP she had been using. now i just need to get her some donor HP for a headband as she wears them so much they get a bit uncomfortable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I dare not let her hear the D10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

piccolino might be coming soon in bulk, however, if the price is on a par with the price I have seen for an ultimate ears replacement cable they can keep it lol.

 As for the ksc75, thats a good present for ya mum and not cheap at all, things are not always valued by the monetary expense and I am sure your mum thinks the same regarding her present of the ksc 75's too.

 Id like to get my family into audio but they just aren't interested 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've tried with my nephew by giving him some ety er6i, senn hd485 and a couple of players and amps but there is no desire there to upgrade and explore the scene lol which might be a blessing in disguise tbh lol

 and p.s. id kill for an off shelf set of cheapo headphones I could rip apart for the headband for some ksc 75's, clips bug the crap outta me.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_piccolino might be coming soon in bulk, however, if the price is on a par with the price I have seen for an ultimate ears replacement cable they can keep it lol._

 

interesting; whatever the price is, divide it by 2 as its coax and therefore one strand is equal to a mono signal/return pair. considering getting a cable for my upcoming ES3X. inheritance treat for myself.

  Quote:


 As for the ksc75, thats a good present for ya mum and not cheap at all, things are not always valued by the monetary expense and I am sure your mum thinks the same regarding her present of the ksc 75's too. 
 

yeah she loves'em some people may think it cheap though.

  Quote:


 Id like to get my family into audio but they just aren't interested 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've tried with my nephew by giving him some ety er6i, senn hd485 and a couple of players and amps but there is no desire there to upgrade and explore the scene lol which might be a blessing in disguise tbh lol 
 

 yeah well I cant see mum sporting an LOD or anything, but she does like good sound and it was this love for audio quality that got me into it at a young age; we had a rotel receiver, Denon tapedeck and old B&W speakers

  Quote:


 and p.s. id kill for an off shelf set of cheapo headphones I could rip apart for the headband for some ksc 75's, clips bug the crap outta me. 
 

me too; going togo searching in a few days; i'll grab you one if I find a suitable set if you like?? prob only be a couple dollars. should be able to find some HP at a 2 dollar shop that will be suitable. of course something more special would be nice too, but i'd be happy just to give me ears a break from the heavy lifting


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_interesting; whatever the price is, divide it by 2 as its coax and therefore one strand is equal to a mono signal/return pair. considering getting a cable for my upcoming ES3X. inheritance treat for myself._

 

Aaahhh thats good to know, and go for it, im all for the bling bling personally speaking, who says cables shouldnt look good too

  Quote:


 
 me too; going togo searching in a few days; i'll grab you one if I find a suitable set if you like?? prob only be a couple dollars. should be able to find some HP at a 2 dollar shop that will be suitable. of course something more special would be nice too, but i'd be happy just to give me ears a break from the heavy lifting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

I would be up for that if you do find something suitable for the 75's, gimmie a shout with your paypal and postage costs when/if you do and jobs a good un, top one man. Special would be nice, but cheap is good too lmao


----------



## battosai

It's here!! Wow that was fast! I opened the damaged box, but luckily everything inside was fine. My girlfriend asked, "Are these some new tubes gain?". I recently bought a darkvoice 336Se and Skylab sold me some nice sounding tubes, so I had to explain my girlfriend how everything was working... now everytime I received something, she asked if it some tubes.... Ahhhh, women 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Back on topic, the D10 looks very good, better than my D2 Boa, but it does feel heavier. I'm still thinking how to set up my rig, so I haven't tried the sound yet, but tomorrow will definitely be the D10 D-DAY!

 I'll keep you updated!


----------



## selkin

do you think the gamma1 (digital IC) is better sounding than the D10 (w/ digital IC too) ?
 which is the better. regardless the AMP in the D10

 (I see better hope to get an answer here)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *selkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you think the gamma1 (digital IC) is better sounding than the D10 (w/ digital IC too) ?
 which is the better. regardless the AMP in the D10

 (I see better hope to get an answer here)_

 

The y1 with optical input is at least as good as the D10 using optical input, from the limited time I spent with it.


----------



## lowlevelowl

I replied to you in your other thread. I prefer the D10's DAC (without amp) to the y1 DAC.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *selkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you think the gamma1 (digital IC) is better sounding than the D10 (w/ digital IC too) ?
 which is the better. regardless the AMP in the D10

 (I see better hope to get an answer here)_


----------



## nc8000

For the last couple of nights I've been comparing my >$3000 Jungson player to the <$500 H-140+SysConcept+D10 dac feeding my RPX-100 with EAC flac rips of the same cd's and that comparison is almost scary. Sure the Jungson wins on all counts but given the 6x price difference the iRiver rig is not that far behind. I don't think there is a better bang for bucks rig around than this iRiver rig.


----------



## abitdeef

Would you guys say the D10 has the best amp section of the ibasso line ? And can I use the dac straight out of my pc ? Software and usb cable is all that is required correct.? I never used a amp/dac before. I want a more neutral amp then the T4 and the D10 is on my short list with p51. I don't know how much I would use the dac, but this seems a better value then the p 51. If the amp section is close in quality.

 Thanks


----------



## nc8000

Just plug it into your computer with the supplied usb cable and it works.


----------



## battosai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ihatepopupads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you guys say the D10 has the best amp section of the ibasso line ? And can I use the dac straight out of my pc ? Software and usb cable is all that is required correct.? I never used a amp/dac before. I want a more neutral amp then the T4 and the D10 is on my short list with p51. I don't know how much I would use the dac, but this seems a better value then the p 51. If the amp section is close in quality.

 Thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

the beauty of these DAC is you don't need any software! Plug it, windows recognizes it and enjoy


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ihatepopupads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you guys say the D10 has the best amp section of the ibasso line ? And can I use the dac straight out of my pc ? Software and usb cable is all that is required correct.? I never used a amp/dac before. I want a more neutral amp then the T4 and the D10 is on my short list with p51. I don't know how much I would use the dac, but this seems a better value then the p 51. If the amp section is close in quality.

 Thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

The D10 and the P3 (with the right opamps) are the best IMO. For all around I really like the D10.


----------



## qusp

and if you have optical...even better. USB is limited to 16/44.1 with the D10

 plus there is one thing the mustang doesnt have even in the amp section

 Gimmie a D...[size=medium]*D!!*[/size]...Give me a 1!!.....*[size=medium]1!![/size]*.....give me A 0!!!......*[size=medium]0!![/size]*......what does it spell???






 let the rolling begin!!! thanks HighFlight

 2 faces of D10 rig so far,








 and chuncky LOL 






 one thing I know before burnin or my op-amp selection is made....

 the dac section sounds wonderful with lisa III


----------



## selkin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The y1 with optical input is at least as good as the D10 using optical input, from the limited time I spent with it._

 

really got me thinking about this....
 buy a y1 and an other desktop amp, or just get along with the D10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I wouldn't use the USB or the aux in on the D10 as my PC has pretty loud RFI, so coax only...


----------



## HK_sends

Hey everybody (especially Qusp)!

 I owe y'all an apology due to my ignorance. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I found that the headphone out on my Laptop has...wait for it...a imbedded toslink!
 Apparently when I tried the coax/toslink adapter (Thanks, Auzentech!) earlier, I didn't have it inserted far enough. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I tried it again today after the Laptop was saying that the digital out was working fine. So, bottom line: I have an optical connection for my D10! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's sounding great so far...

 Cheers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## abitdeef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D10 and the P3 (with the right opamps) are the best IMO. For all around I really like the D10._

 

Nice! would you consider the P3 to be close to the mustang? I'm not lucky like you guys and have a optical source (iriver), and still not really sure if I would use the dac. I mean the p3 seems pretty cheap @ 179.00, my other choice was a minibox e+. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## abitdeef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and if you have optical...even better. USB is limited to 16/44.1 with the D10

 plus there is one thing the mustang doesnt have even in the amp section

 Gimmie a D...[size=medium]*D!!*[/size]...Give me a 1!!.....*[size=medium]1!![/size]*.....give me A 0!!!......*[size=medium]0!![/size]*......what does it spell???






 let the rolling begin!!! thanks HighFlight

 2 faces of D10 rig so far,








 and chuncky LOL 






 one thing I know before burnin or my op-amp selection is made....

 the dac section sounds wonderful with lisa III 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes the opamp rolling, could be very useful with different headphone signatures. As much as I want the p51 for it's size, the d10 or p3 makes more sense. Just with so many people raving about the mustangs sound, it's hard not to get caught up in the hype. The D10 looks like a winner though.

 Thanks guys.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ihatepopupads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you guys say the D10 has the best amp section of the ibasso line ? And can I use the dac straight out of my pc ? Software and usb cable is all that is required correct.? I never used a amp/dac before. I want a more neutral amp then the T4 and the D10 is on my short list with p51. I don't know how much I would use the dac, but this seems a better value then the p 51. If the amp section is close in quality.

 Thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, best amp section of iBasso I have heard (I haven't heard the P3). Use the DAC right out of your PC and you don't need special software. The D10 is on par with the Predator amp section, and slightly behind the P-51. I really like the D10 a lot.


----------



## abitdeef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, best amp section of iBasso I have heard (I haven't heard the P3). Use the DAC right out of your PC and you don't need special software. The D10 is on par with the Predator amp section, and slightly behind the P-51. I really like the D10 a lot._

 


 Tough choice, because I do like to support ray. Plus with the American economy so crappy...... But with the rolling of the d10 it's almost like having multiple amps? Maybe i'll get both, I might use that dac more then I think, and I just remembered I have an older sony pcdp with optical out- dej1000. I haven't messed with it in years, but I think it still works.


----------



## wuwhere

Although I have not heard the P-51, I seriously doubt that the difference would be significant.


----------



## PG21

I love my D10. Fairly warm with my IE8 but paired with my PFE and they're golden


----------



## selkin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PG21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love my D10. Fairly warm with my IE8 but paired with my PFE and they're golden_

 

how's that possible, pfes are not warm HPs unamped. IE8 is warm by itself. amped by the same device should produce a too warm IE8 and a good PFE.
 This is what logic tells me.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *selkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how's that possible, pfes are not warm HPs unamped. IE8 is warm by itself. amped by the same device should produce a too warm IE8 and a good PFE.
 This is what logic tells me._

 

I think if you read what he wrote again thats what he's saying


----------



## nc8000

Anybody have any idea what I have to do to get foobar to work with the D10 using asio ? I have downloaded the asio dll for foobar and can select asio in the playback options but am told that there are no compatible asio drivers on my pc. And is it even worth worrying about since I got WASAPI working fine ?


----------



## dazzer1975

qusp, nice op amp farm, mind sharing which ones you have from left to right? Particularly the two that aren't soldered onto an adaptor.

 Cheers.

 p.s. I dont know if you have had time to make evaluations but what are your favourite combinations for the d10 so far with regards op amps and buffers?


----------



## obentou

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody have any idea what I have to do to get foobar to work with the D10 using asio ? I have downloaded the asio dll for foobar and can select asio in the playback options but am told that there are no compatible asio drivers on my pc. And is it even worth worrying about since I got WASAPI working fine ?_

 

Download ASIO4all, then it should work!


----------



## qusp

OK to the best my eyes can do at the moment and starting from the left row AD8656, AD8656 (these are the stock op-amps)LMH6643
 next row: AD48412YRZ. AD8066 (highly recommended), LMH6643
 third row: 8532 (stock buffer), the first DIP is OPA2132 (BORING), OPA604AP
 forth row: AD8599, AD8397, blank Browndog single to dual adapter, but from what I understand there isnt too much options for singles in the DX as the current/gain is too low, so no OPA637/627 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 or AD8620 another I was hoping for and specs read like they would work. I wonder if the D10 can be tweaked to accept these somehow, by upping the supply voltage and power rail caps. hmmm
 fifth row: Blank and then another stock buffer
 last row: THS4032, LTC6241HV and another browndog single to dual adapter


 one standout for bad reasons is the OPA2132; which seems to be a bit of a dud, then I remembered its common in CMOYS
 installed at the moment is the bypassed buffers and AD746, which was sounding quite nice with the W3, with a great soundstage, but not playing so well with the SE530 as it has slightly rolled off highs. so gonna do some more playing in a minute. favourite so far is AD8066 with bypassed buffers or AD8656 as buffers. but yeah havent spent enough time with the amp section of the DX yet to make too much of a comparison as I usually end up using the AD744 op-amps LOL (lisa) not that the Lisa even really uses the op-amps as the output stage is discreet. they are utilized to a degree though.

 HighFlight: are you sure you added the OPA2228?? I cant find it, but you added OPA604A


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK to the best my eyes can do at the moment_

 

Tell me about it,my eye sight used to be Sh1t hot but i have difficulty reading some of those op amps... age is a bitch

  Quote:


 and starting from the left row AD8656, AD8656 (these are the stock op-amps)LMH6643
 next row: AD48412YRZ. AD8066 (highly recommended), LMH6643
 third row: 8532 (stock buffer), the first DIP is OPA2132 (BORING), OPA604AP
 forth row: AD8599, AD8397, blank Browndog single to dual adapter, but from what I understand there isnt too much options for singles in the DX as the current/gain is too low, so no OPA637/627 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or AD8620 another I was hoping for and specs read like they would work. I wonder if the D10 can be tweaked to accept these somehow, by upping the supply voltage and power rail caps. hmmm
 fifth row: Blank and then another stock buffer
 last row: THS4032, LTC6241HV and another browndog single to dual adapter


 one standout for bad reasons is the OPA2132; which seems to be a bit of a dud, then I remembered its common in CMOYS
 installed at the moment is the bypassed buffers and AD746, which was sounding quite nice with the W3, with a great soundstage, but not playing so well with the SE530 as it has slightly rolled off highs. so gonna do some more playing in a minute. favourite so far is AD8066 with bypassed buffers or AD8656 as buffers. but yeah havent spent enough time with the amp section of the DX yet to make too much of a comparison as I usually end up using the AD744 op-amps LOL (lisa) not that the Lisa even really uses the op-amps as the output stage is discreet. they are utilized to a degree though.

 HighFlight: are you sure you added the OPA2228?? I cant find it, but you added OPA604A 
 

How are you finding the following three op-amps? AD48412YRZ, THS4032 and LTC6241HV

 I am about to order the THS4032 and LTC6241HV so might add the AD48412YRZ too


 p.s. ive been using the AD8066 with bypassed buiffers for the last few weeks, like it myself (as evidenced by using it exclusively for previous 3 weeks) although I think the ad8656 is a close call too imo, but I enjoy tinkering about with these op-amps so appreciate your info and which ones you are using and liking etc.

 Cheers for that.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *obentou* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Download ASIO4all, then it should work!_

 

Thanks, that seems to work after a bit of tweaking during setup. Any idea as to which is supposed to be the better, WASAPI or ASIO ?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tell me about it,my eye sight used to be Sh1t hot but i have difficulty reading some of those op amps... age is a bitch_

 

yeah well sure age is a bitch alright (35) my eyesight is still pretty damn good actually, but the amount of time I spend at the computer and soldering tiny things; my eyes get a bit tired and I have a squint in my left eye, so when I move something too close to my eyes it gets to a point where my left eye bails; cant go fully cross-eyed. was supposed to do exercises when I was young to combat it, but never really did them so when tired it comes back. hehe back On topic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but yeah some of them are a bitch as the writing is starting to wear off or is in a pale colour. I know excuses excuses.

  Quote:


 How are you finding the following three op-amps? AD48412YRZ, THS4032 and LTC6241HV 
 

well I actually havent spent any time with them yet really. tried the THS4032 and really liked it with W3 but dont have anything specific to say about it really as I moved on and as said, I have been spending more time with the D10 as dac-only with Lisa III. In fact overall the W3 is having a MUCH better time with the D10, pity I need to send it in for RMA service. the mini plug is stuffed up and cutting in and out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 its so tempting to re-terminate/re-cable it with some cardas silver; but will prob end up selling it when I get my ES3X shortly, so being able to sell an as new replacement has a certain appeal that a temporary tinker fix doesnt. Besides Westone have offered to pay fedex shipping both ways. great service from Powd3rh0und, I cant fault it and makes me feel better about my first full customs being westones.

 was going to move onto the LTC6241HV next actually. would you like me to go AD48412YRZ instead?? i'll post some impressions tomorrow.

  Quote:


 I am about to order the THS4032 and LTC6241HV so might add the AD48412YRZ too

 

see above

  Quote:


 p.s. ive been using the AD8066 with bypassed buiffers for the last few weeks, like it myself (as evidenced by using it exclusively for previous 3 weeks) although I think the ad8656 is a close call too imo, but I enjoy tinkering about with these op-amps so appreciate your info and which ones you are using and liking etc.

 Cheers for that. 
 

yeah they are still a fave, but who knows what time will bring; the whole thing is a bit of a moving target with the amp still burning in and all. will keep posting impressions in here.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_................................snip.............. ........

 HighFlight: are you sure you added the OPA2228?? I cant find it, but you added OPA604A_

 

Maybe my eyes aren't so good either! I thought I sent it. It would be a DIP configuration, not mounted on a browndog.


----------



## qusp

hehe well you sent an OPA604A which is a DIP and wasnt on the list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 hey I might grab a few more off you. actually really enjoying the 8397 with bypassed buffers at the moment. didnt think I would as although I did like the mini^3 I found the treble to be a little fatiguing. not so in the D10 at least so far it isnt. also i'm gonna grab some OPA627 anyway. my Lisa only lasts for 8hrs, so i'm used to dealing with that. plius I can always carry a spare opamp with me and I have an external battery pack that should keep the supply voltage up there.


----------



## qusp

hehe well you sent an OPA604A which is a DIP and wasnt on the list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 hey I might grab a few more off you. actually really enjoying the 8397 with bypassed buffers at the moment. didnt think I would as although I did like the mini^3 I found the treble to be a little fatiguing. not so in the D10 at least so far it isnt. also i'm gonna grab some OPA627 anyway. my Lisa only lasts for 8hrs, so i'm used to dealing with that. plius I can always carry a spare opamp with me and I have an external battery pack that should keep the supply voltage up there.

 Also, have you tried BUF634P in the D10?? I mean I know you dont really like using buffers if you can avoid it, but the BUF634 has nice performance


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_was going to move onto the LTC6241HV next actually. would you like me to go AD48412YRZ instead?? i'll post some impressions tomorrow.

_

 

My favorites, thus far, are the LTC6241HV and OPA2228, both with lhm6643 buffers. Warm, liquidity goodness.

 I am kinda itching to try the OPA2827, which has been favorably compared to the venerable OPA627, and the AD8022. From what I've read, despite my reservations about just going on others' opinions, it should be right down my/your alley if you enjoy the BB sound.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know excuses excuses._

 

 lol I hear ya, I think my problem is lighting, I need upgraded lights in this house lol


  Quote:


 was going to move onto the LTC6241HV next actually. would you like me to go AD48412YRZ instead?? i'll post some impressions tomorrow.

 

Ah no you're cool, the impressions of the LTC6241HV will be cool, I have just ordered that and the THS4032 so will be good to hear those impressions while im waiting for those to arrive.


----------



## jamato8

There isn't enough voltage for the 627, IMO. Yes it can work to a very low voltage but I don't think it sounds great working at 3.7 volts but others maybe can chime in.


----------



## HiFlight

Here is a repost of my original list, first posted on page 30 of the thread. It might save digging back thru the many pages of the D10 thread: 

 I spent some time today going thru my supply of opamps that might be compatible with the D10.

 The list below is certainly not all-inclusive, but is a pretty good representation of the ones that will function in the D10, considering the low supply voltage.

 I evaluated them without buffers, so as to hear the true signature of the opamp. I used high-bitrate music, both instrumental and vocal fed to the Aux input of the D10 from my iRiver H-CF32

 As I only wanted to evaluate the amp section, I did not use the optical output of the iRiver.

 I will say at the outset that the circuit design of the D10 flattered whatever opamp I tried; there were no bad ones in the bunch.

 Some that I thought might work didn't, and some that I doubted would work did....go figure!

 I used both my Sennheiser IE8s for IEM, and my recabled Grado RS-1s for full-sized phones.

 As I do not want to get into subjective "which is best" discussions, I simply ranked them based on treble vs bass balance, or from brightest to darkest.

 My ranking is as follows:

 ADA4841-2
 AD8599
 AD8616
 AD8397
 LMA6643
 AD746
 LTC6241HV (LTC6241 would also work just fine)
 OPA2111
 OPA2604
 THS4032
 OPA2134
 LMH6655
 AD8656
 AD8066 (with AD8532 buffers)
 AD2228
 AD2227

 Widest soundstages were found in AD8066, OPA2111, OPA2604, AD8656 and AD746, respectively.

 Most output power (without buffers)

 AD8397: 320ma
 AD8656: 220ma
 AD8616 150ma
 THS4032 80ma
 LMH6655 80ma

 Opamps that I thought might work but didn't: AD8620, LM6622, LME49720 (LM4562), AD797 (SOIC) OPA627 (OPA 627 initally worked fine, but only for a short period of time. Likely on the very edge of its voltage envelop with a fully charged battery.)


 Note that the AD8397 has built-in buffers, so I would not suggest using additional buffers. This opamp has sometimes been criticized for its highs, but in the D10, it performed really well.

 My recommendations:
 If you have bright phones and/or are a basshead, go with the darker opamps, if you like detail and sparkle, or have dark phones, try the brighter ones.
 __________________


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.........................snip...........
 Also, have you tried BUF634P in the D10?? I mean I know you dont really like using buffers if you can avoid it, but the BUF634 has nice performance_

 


 BUF634 will not work in the D10. Dual-channel buffers only!

 Don't waste your money on the OPA627/637. I agree with Jamato that it is operating on the very minimum edge of its voltage range, and will not last long enough to make it worthwhile. It is, IMO, an over-priced and over-rated opamp. 

 The OPA2107 sounds very similar at less cost, plus you only need one and it is available in DIP configuration. I don't remember if I tried it in my D10, but it sounds excellent in the P3. I will give it a try and see if it performs with the low supply voltage of the D10.

 UPDATE: 
 No Joy!! I just tried an OPA2107 in my D10 without success. Supply voltage too low to function. I did, however, review a couple of combinations that I think sound very good with bypassed buffers: 
 AD8397...Many have criticized the highs of this opamp, but in the D10, it performs admirably. 
 AD8656...Very nice rounded tubelike sound. Easy to listen to for a long time. 
 AD8616...Similar to the AD8656 but with a little sharper high end. 

 OPA2228 with AD8656 buffers sounds superb, open expansive soundstage, especially with orchestral genres.

 I have long considered the AD8656 to be an ideal buffer: It has high output current, low quiescent current draw, nearly perfect square-wave response, low noise, rail-to-rail output voltage, unity gain, etc. Besides all that, it sounds good! The same characteristics allow it to be successfully used with bypassed buffers.


----------



## holmboe

Can anyone confirm the status of iBasso?

 When I visit their web site, at iBasso, the "News" from 2009-1-22 says "Close operation for Vacation." There's no more recent news posted.

 The iBasso D10 Cobra is "Temporarily Out of Stock!!!" I wonder if/when they will make any more.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *holmboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone confirm the status of iBasso?

 When I visit their web site, at iBasso, the "News" from 2009-1-22 says "Close operation for Vacation." There's no more recent news posted.

 The iBasso D10 Cobra is "Temporarily Out of Stock!!!" I wonder if/when they will make any more._

 


 From others here, it sounds like they are currently "in business" and fulfilling orders as they're placed.


----------



## Fastnbulbous

I pulled the trigger and ordered one today. Hope it takes less than a week to get here. It comes with USB and optical, but no coaxial. I'll have to rummage through my cables to see if I have a coaxial. Otherwise I'll get a couple from Monoprice, unless someone recommends otherwise.

 Basically I'll be plugging into computer via USB in office for FLAC files, coaxial via HK receiver in living room for Squeezebox/Blu Ray/CDs, and coaxial in bedroom to DVD/CD, USB for Archos, and coaxial for portable DVD player. Except the jack for the portable DVD looks like a 3.5mm or smaller rather than RCA type, and Monoprice doesn't seem to have those cables.


----------



## jamato8

Ron:

 I posted your preference for opamps some time back on the first page but will update it.


----------



## HiFlight

OK, thanks, John...It has been a long time since I looked at that first page!


----------



## x3sphere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *holmboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone confirm the status of iBasso?

 When I visit their web site, at iBasso, the "News" from 2009-1-22 says "Close operation for Vacation." There's no more recent news posted.

 The iBasso D10 Cobra is "Temporarily Out of Stock!!!" I wonder if/when they will make any more._

 

They are in stock, the website is just outdated. I ordered one and they shipped it the next day, took a total of three days after order to get here via DHL. Very fast for international shipping.


----------



## holmboe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From others here, it sounds like they are currently "in business" and fulfilling orders as they're placed._

 

Yes, you're right. I just found this message posted 4-1:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *battosai* 
_I just bought the D10 last sunday, it was written out of stock, but my finger was tickling me and my credit card was laughing at me, so i pushed the button, as a "revenge". Today I got a mail from Ibasso saying that the amp has been shipped!_

 

I guess they're making them as fast as they're ordered and don't have time to update their web site.


----------



## bakhtiar

You can send an email to *service@ibasso.com* for the availability.


----------



## Surrealsky

I am using the stock opamp LR and using both ad8656 as buffers and it sounds better across all frequencies. Have been using the stock opamps since day one and am surprised to hear it even better. Anyone have tried the same config? Just worried about the battery life haha.


----------



## jamato8

You should have pretty good battery life. Many option, many sounds. It's all good. :^)


----------



## Surrealsky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should have pretty good battery life. Many option, many sounds. It's all good. :^)_

 

Care to give it a try maybe later and see how it sounds? Would very much like to hear your opinion


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BUF634 will not work in the D10. Dual-channel buffers only!_

 

well that sux, pity my faves cant run in this amp. I would kill to be able to run AD744 in this baby.
*
  Quote:


 Don't waste your money on the OPA627/637. I agree with Jamato that it is operating on the very minimum edge of its voltage range, and will not last long enough to make it worthwhile. It is, IMO, an over-priced and over-rated opamp. 
 

*OK i'll take your word for it... at least for the moment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I guess what made me really keen to do it was 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by * HighFlight* 
_I would have to say that to my ears, this combination is right up there with the best home amps!_

 

sounds pretty appealing. and if my battery pack (designed to power a laptop for half a day, but with 2 outputs enabling it to output 2 seperate supply voltages at anywhere between 5-18v can supply enough current it may just have been worth it. I do agree its very overpriced though.
  Quote:


 The OPA2107 sounds very similar at less cost, plus you only need one and it is available in DIP configuration. I don't remember if I tried it in my D10, but it sounds excellent in the P3. I will give it a try and see if it performs with the low supply voltage of the D10.

 UPDATE: 
 No Joy!! I just tried an OPA2107 in my D10 without success. Supply voltage too low to function. I did, however, review a couple of combinations that I think sound very good with bypassed buffers: 
 

Bummer
  Quote:


 AD8397...Many have criticized the highs of this opamp, but in the D10, it performs admirably. 
 

I totally agree; if you remember I wasnt actually very keen to get one as i'm not usually keen on the highs either and with westone 3 not so good. but in D10 is a new animal!! right up there with my current favourite (no pun intended) THS4032 with AD8656

  Quote:


 AD8656...Very nice rounded tubelike sound. Easy to listen to for a long time. 
 

yes; I like them as buffers more though.

 AD8616...Similar to the AD8656 but with a little sharper high end. 

  Quote:


 OPA2228 with AD8656 buffers sounds superb, open expansive soundstage, especially with orchestral genres. 
 

OK well sindce you talked it up before you sent them i'm gonna have to get one off you. I would also like to have one more pair that are suitable in the amp circuit and as buffers; or specialized buffers.so i'll PM you shortly.

  Quote:


 I have long considered the AD8656 to be an ideal buffer: It has high output current, low quiescent current draw, nearly perfect square-wave response, low noise, rail-to-rail output voltage, unity gain, etc. Besides all that, it sounds good! The same characteristics allow it to be successfully used with bypassed buffers. 
 

,yes well its proven to be my favourite so far too; would like some variety in that position though. those that know me here will be shaking their head. anyone who saw the progression into cable sickness will be thinking I need to be getting to a meeting right now.


----------



## Anouk

Hey everyone, is the below link the cable you all buy for your iriver h120 and ibasso d10? my iriver iwll be sent my way today so I iwllhave it soon hopefully.
Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more: MiniPlug to Toslink Premium Optical Cable 0.05 to 50 meters
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## nc8000

Yep that's the one. In connector you select without shell and in length you select S


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey everyone, is the below link the cable you all buy for your iriver h120 and ibasso d10? my iriver iwll be sent my way today so I iwllhave it soon hopefully.
Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more: MiniPlug to Toslink Premium Optical Cable 0.05 to 50 meters
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Also, specify a C2C (center-to-center) of 2.5cm.


----------



## nc8000

I had 2.8 cm as I have velcro between the 2 units and that was perfect.


----------



## qusp

finding the THS4032 a little light on the bass without buffers great clarity and soundstage though


----------



## Anouk

Hello everyone, thanks for the help, i just ordered the cable. Can anyone give me an ebay link for a charging cable for the h120? I want a cable that has a usb connector at one side so that I can charge the iriver with my computer. I know you cant charge the player over normal usb. I dont want to fry my player because I know it cant be fixed. It will take a looooong time to charge over usb because my iriver has a 2300mah bbattery.
 I am very much looking forward to trying my new portable setup.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone give me an ebay link for a charging cable for the h120? I want a cable that has a usb connector at one side so that I can charge the iriver with my computer._

 

Not eBay but this one works great for me and both syncs and charges from one usb port

miniSync - H120 Retractable Cable / iRiver H120 Retractable Cable / H120 USB Cable / iRiver H120 USB Cable


----------



## dazzer1975

BoxWave Accessories - iPhone, Blackberry, Treo, HTC Cases, Batteries, Chargers & More

 id give you the direct link but my mouse is knackered and the right button doesn't work lol

 anyway once on boxwave search for iriver h120 accessories and you should find the retractable usb and charger cable.

 I got one few years back of a far higher quality than that one but I can't remember the company or find it again, so I think boxwave as the best verified aftermarket iriver charger there is... until another verifiably safe source comes along

 you dont want to use any old charger for your iriver, but the boxwave has been recommended by the guys over on misticriver for years so its fine.


----------



## dazzer1975

p.s. nc8000 beat me to it lol


----------



## clasam

Can anyone talk me through swapping out the battery for a new one?

 Thx,

 Jon


----------



## HiFlight

Just to keep up interest, I have a bunch of new opamps and buffers that I have never tried before enroute. For now, my personal D10 choice is: 
 OPA2228 in LR, AD8656 buffers. Like being there!

 And here I thought I was about finished trying out different combinations....Well, the bar just keeps going up. What fun. 

 Yes, dear...you want me to clean up my mess off the table, just because its suppertime???????


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone talk me through swapping out the battery for a new one?

 Thx,

 Jon_

 

For the D10???


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone talk me through swapping out the battery for a new one?

 Thx,

 Jon_

 

If you men in the iRiver there is a good guide with pictures on misticriver that hiflight pointed me to at one point


----------



## wolfen68

Here's the best battery change guide I'm aware of for the H1xx:

http://www.misticriver.net/wiki/inde...ry_Replacement


 Yesterday, I had my first bad experience regarding electrical noise/interference with the D10 stock opamps. I was flying in a smaller jet and it was really bad....significant crackling that ruined listening to the music. I was also using fairly sensitive IEM's which just seemed to magnify the problem as well. Next time I'm going to try putting my rig in an anti-static bag and see if it helps.

 Previously, I've had no problem with regular commercial flights or any other nearby devices such as cellphones.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the D10???_

 

Sorry, yes I meant the D10. I THINK I remember people saying the battery was easily replaced....

 While my D10 is in with iBasso, I figured I might as well get a replacement battery.

 I don't NEED to replace the battery yet, but since I will eventually, I figured I would ask someone for a walkthrough while I was thinking about it.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to keep up interest, I have a bunch of new opamps and buffers that I have never tried before enroute. For now, my personal D10 choice is: 
 OPA2228 in LR, AD8656 buffers. Like being there!_

 

Hey HiFlight, are you using the OPA2228P or PA?

 Thanks,
 -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, yes I meant the D10. I THINK I remember people saying the battery was easily replaced....

 While my D10 is in with iBasso, I figured I might as well get a replacement battery.

 I don't NEED to replace the battery yet, but since I will eventually, I figured I would ask someone for a walkthrough while I was thinking about it._

 

The battery leads aren't soldered in place but have a fitting that pushes into place. It will be very easy to replace the battery in the D10 and the battery is common.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The battery leads aren't soldered in place but have a fitting that pushes into place. I will be very easy to replace the battery in the D10 and the battery is common._

 

So just grab and slide, correct?


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey HiFlight, are you using the OPA2228P or PA?

 Thanks,
 -HK sends_

 

From what I've read, the P and PA are audibly identical. The improved specs are meaningless for audio. It's a great choice, imo


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So just grab and slide, correct?_

 

Yes. The battery is glued in place but that is often the case and will take a little gentle prying off.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I've read, the P and PA are audibly identical. The improved specs are meaningless for audio. It's a great choice, imo_

 

Cool, I can go for the cheapest one.

 -HK sends


----------



## HiFlight

The difference between the P and the PA is in the specifications for the DC offset voltage. Both, however, have extremely low offset voltages in comparison to many other commonly used audio opamps, and it is unlikely that anyone will hear any audible differences between the two. The DC offset voltage, if extremely large, can reduce the dynamic range of an opamp. In the case of the OPA2228, the offset voltages are in the low microvolt range, which should be of little significance for audio frequencies. 

 Perhaps if one is real picky and wants the absolute best specs, they should spend the extra few bucks and get the P version. 

 It will probably have the same effect on the sound as will a $300 power cord or a $50 audiophile fuse!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The difference between the P and the PA is in the specifications for the DC offset voltage. Both, however, have extremely low offset voltages in comparison to many other commonly used audio opamps, and it is unlikely that anyone will hear any audible differences between the two. The DC offset voltage, if extremely large, can reduce the dynamic range of an opamp. In the case of the OPA2228, the offset voltages are in the low microvolt range, which should be of little significance for audio frequencies. 

 Perhaps if one is real picky and wants the absolute best specs, they should spend the extra few bucks and get the P version. 

 It will probably have the same effect on the sound as will a $300 power cord or a $50 audiophile fuse!_

 

Thanks for the info, HiFlight. At least the difference here is only four dollars...or I'll just ask TI for a sample. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Cheers!
 -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

You know, I was thinking the D10 didn't get all that loud (using the Stock opamps), but then I just dropped in the AD8656 as buffers and WOW! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The sound is a bit harsh with the Grado 325i's I'm using, but with burn-in (and the OPA2228 that I am ordering), it should sound really good.

 I like opamp rolling! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
 -HK sends


----------



## jinp6301

Are these still being sold?


----------



## jamato8

Yes, they are current and will be there for some time. Just place an order and they will send it out in a couple of days. It appears they are just keeping up with the orders.


----------



## jinp6301

Oh, ok. Its just because the website says that its temporarily out of stock

iBasso


----------



## Surrealsky

does anyone have any idea do i need to solder for the ad8620 or ad8066? Cause i might get both of them for my d10 to pair up with the ie8's.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Surrealsky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does anyone have any idea do i need to solder for the ad8620 or ad8066? Cause i might get both of them for my d10 to pair up with the ie8's._

 

Just did a quick search on Digikey...didn't see any evidence they come in DIP form, which means, yes, you would have to solder to a brown dog.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jinp6301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, ok. Its just because the website says that its temporarily out of stock

iBasso_

 

They haven't updated the website since late January but they are shipping as fast as orders come in.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I spent some time today going thru my supply of opamps that might be compatible with the D10. 

 The list below is certainly not all-inclusive, but is a pretty good representation of the ones that will function in the D10, considering the low supply voltage. ......
 ....................
*Opamps that I thought might work but didn't: AD8620*, LM6622, LME49720 (LM4562), AD797 (SOIC) OPA627 (OPA 627 initally worked fine, but only for a short period of time. Likely on the very edge of its voltage envelop with a fully charged battery.) 
 ........_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Surrealsky* 
_does anyone have any idea *do i need to solder for the ad8620* or ad8066? Cause i might get both of them for my d10 to pair up with the ie8's._

 

might want to rethink that order ^^^

 its a pity too because the AD8620 is a great op-amp and well thought of here; but doesnt have enough voltage to work in the D10; seems we are limited with our choices a bit. although there are still some good ones we can use. i'm thinking of ordering some AD825 and using a browndog stacked. it also says its voltage range starts at 5v, but thats for a single channel opamp. i'm gonna give it a try anyway as that is nice too. its a bit hit and miss it seems, because most of the ones that do work are rated to start at 5v as well, just as many that dont work. we are right on the edge of operation with numbers of op-amps and its a matter of trial and error.


----------



## jinp6301

Hmm, I really want to give this a listen to compare against the gamma/xp combo. I Can't afford it yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I would love to try it out before buying.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Surrealsky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does anyone have any idea do i need to solder for the ad8620 or ad8066? Cause i might get both of them for my d10 to pair up with the ie8's._

 

IMHO, the OPA228/AD8656 combo considerably betters the performance of the AD8066. Much better detail and considerably larger and deeper soundstage. Quite speaker-like. By itself, the OPA228 seemed rather unremarkable, but paired with the AD8656 as buffers, it is a totally different performer.


----------



## etys rule

FWIW, I ordered a D10 on Wednesday. Heard back from them a few hours later to confirm shipping address. Traded a few emails with them around op-amps. So far, real good customer service. I ordered the amp even though it showed as out-of-stock. I contacted them through their site first and they confirmed they will build upon my order. I plan on spending some time with it stock to become familiar with it's sound signature and will then start rollin'.


----------



## Surrealsky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMHO, the OPA228/AD8656 combo considerably betters the performance of the AD8066. Much better detail and considerably larger and deeper soundstage. Quite speaker-like. By itself, the OPA228 seemed rather unremarkable, but paired with the AD8656 as buffers, it is a totally different performer._

 

which one shld i get for my d10? do i need to solder? thanks...

Browse for Products | Farnell Singapore


----------



## dazzer1975

pm hiflight, he is the man in the know regarding op amps around here and will help to steer you onto the right path.


----------



## Fastnbulbous

My D10 Cobra departed Hong Kong on Wednesday and arrived on Thursday. Amazing!

 I have to say, other than the attraction for those who like to tinker, I don't get the whole Op-amps thing. Is it different approaches to distorting the signal to simulate the sounds of analog turntables and tube amps?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fastnbulbous* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My D10 Cobra departed Hong Kong on Wednesday and arrived on Thursday. Amazing!

 I have to say, other than the attraction for those who like to tinker, I don't get the whole Op-amps thing. Is it different approaches to distorting the signal to simulate the sounds of analog turntables and tube amps?_

 

No, it's a way to match the amp to your personal headphones to lessen the distortions in the sound.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fastnbulbous* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My D10 Cobra departed Hong Kong on Wednesday and arrived on Thursday. Amazing!

 I have to say, other than the attraction for those who like to tinker, I don't get the whole Op-amps thing. Is it different approaches to distorting the signal to simulate the sounds of analog turntables and tube amps?_

 

the op-amp is the key part that drives the analogue section of your amp; did you buy you amp to distort the sound?? no as HA said each different opamp has slightly different performance and therefor will exhibit slightly different synergy with your headphones or the type of music you listen to. some will have amazing bass and soundstage, but not as good in the highs and detail. some will be uber fast and detailed, but not so powerful or well performing with bass slam. some may be very balanced across the whole frequency range, but may not have the best soundstage. and then you have the buffers, which add another way of tailoring the performance/specs of the amp section. they (op-amps and buffers) only effect the amp section though, so will have no effect on the quality of the signal the amp is receiving 

 so basically the search is to find the best combination of op-amp/buffers to suit your taste in sound sig, music and headphones.

 but yes tinkering is part of the fun too


----------



## jamato8

I still prefer the stock setup. I have listened to many different combinations but the most open, dynamic and transparent, to my ear, is the stock opamp and buffers. I don't have the 2228 to try out though. So with this caveat present. Also with my phones and ears. It is fun to try the many opamps and to mold to your ideal.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still prefer the stock setup. I have listened to many different combinations but the most open, dynamic and transparent, to my ear, is the stock opamp and buffers._

 

I'm finding that the stock opamp with the AD8656's as buffers really syncs well with my D2000 cans. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMHO, the OPA228/AD8656 combo considerably betters the performance of the AD8066. Much better detail and considerably larger and deeper soundstage. Quite speaker-like. By itself, the OPA228 seemed rather unremarkable, but paired with the AD8656 as buffers, it is a totally different performer._

 

HiFlight, just wanted to confirm; are you using OPA2228 or OPA228 for your setup?

 Thanks,
 -HK sends


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HiFlight, just wanted to confirm; are you using OPA2228 or OPA228 for your setup?

 Thanks,
 -HK sends_

 

It's 2228, the 228 is single channel, I believe. I am one of the people who have an opa2228 that was sent from Hiflight


----------



## Tom1510

My D10 has arrived today, just 5 days after I ordered it. 

 The sound is smooth as silk, can't stop listening. Now waiting for my es3x...


----------



## jamato8

Listening the the Dead Set. What a great live recording. And the sound via my 9's and the optical out of the iRiver to the D10. Just too good. :^)


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's 2228, the 228 is single channel, I believe. I am one of the people who have an opa2228 that was sent from Hiflight_

 

Great! I ordered the right one, then.

 Thanks!
 -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Wow, this is a nice amp! I find myself ignoring my P-51 Mustang and SR-71A more and more. The sound I get with the Denon D2000 cans is incredible. I'm not even using the DAC that much.

 I start to listen, then I drift off into la-la-land...

 -HK sends


----------



## dazzer1975

mines mellowed right out since i first got it, albeit i dont use my se530's with the d10 nor the stock op-amp or buffers but it has developed into a lush and liquid experience which is a delight to listen to.


----------



## iszatso

refresh us again on your choice of opamps and buffers and config for the lush liquid sound?


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iszatso* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_refresh us again on your choice of opamps and buffers and config for the lush liquid sound?_

 

For me, OPA2228 +LMH6643 or LTC6241HV + LMH6643


----------



## qusp

LMH4032 with AD8656, at the moment playing with LTC6241HV with AD8656 (quite nice as well, not quite as liquid as 4032 to my ears) waiting on OPA2228


----------



## EFN

I received reply from iBasso today that a *DAC only* version of D10 is under development. But no hint yet when we can expect a release. This is one of the reason I am holding back with current D10. Hopefully the wait won't be too long.

*EDIT:*
 Second email from iBasso says that they need 2 months to work on it.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iszatso* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_refresh us again on your choice of opamps and buffers and config for the lush liquid sound?_

 

currently using opa2228 with ad8656 buffers, however, I find if the ad8656 is in there in some part of the config, either as op amp and bypassed buffers (although in comparison the sound seems to lack the weight and body of the opa2228 with 8656 as buffers but doesn't lose any of the character of the smooth presentation) or as buffers then the sound is right where I like it.

 I like it as a jack of all trades ic but one that doesnt suffer the usual trait of jack of all trades re ok at all things excelling at none, the ad8656 is quite excellent imo as buffer or op-amp


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received reply from iBasso today that a *DAC only* version of D10 is under development. But no hint yet when we can expect a release. This is one of the reason I am holding back with current D10. Hopefully the wait won't be too long.

*EDIT:*
 Second email from iBasso says that they need 2 months to work on it._

 

Let me be the fist to say YAHTZEE! Yeah, I don't know what that means either.


----------



## qusp

oh well at least I like the amp enough to use it by itself without the lisa sometimes when i'm just going down the local shop or something. I wonder how much smaller it will be??


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me be the fist to say YAHTZEE! Yeah, I don't know what that means either._

 

That is a game of dice played with 5 dice and more precisely describes a throw where all 5 dice sow the same value


----------



## n0ah

excuse my reluctance to gloss through 121 pages but what's being regarded as the best way to connect this to a laptop between coax and optical? i've also only hooked up via usb so who can point me in the right direction of what exactly i need to make the connection when i do get my d10?


----------



## HiFlight

For those who like the AD8656 for use in LR or buffer sockets, but would prefer a slightly less bright SQ, I found some very good low voltage opamps that perform very well in the D10. 

 As I describe their sound characteristics, it is in comparison to the OPA2228/AD8656 combination. 

 The following combinations differ from the above set mainly in emphasis of the tonal range and soundstage. 

 All of the new opamps are low-noise, low distortion, and quite economical on battery power. 

 The opamps used in LR were the following: 
 LMH6622 (SOIC)
 OPA2350 (DIP)
 TLC2202 (DIP)

 The buffers used for all 3:
 EL8201

 LMH6622/EL8201 sounded most like 2228/8656, but with more brightness/detail. The 6622 is brighter than 2228, but EL8201 is smoother and more liquid than is the AD8656. More the characteristics of the 2228, but in a buffer. Their characteristics matched well. 

 OPA2350/EL8201 also resembled the 2228/8656 combination, but with more detail in the mids. Highs were tamed a bit, lows about the same. Soundstage was wide, but not particularly deep. The soundstage was fairly "upfront". Vocals really sounded superb with this pair of opamps. Those who like detail, but dislike any sense of tonal stridency will very likely enjoy this combo. 

 TLC2202/EL8201 was the most "speaker-like" of the 3. The soundstage was narrower than the reference configuration and the previous 2 combos, much like a crossfeed implementation. It was, however, quite deep. One also got the feeling that the performance was more distant, again, much like listening to speakers. This combo provided a sound signature that does not lose its sense of realism even at reduced volumes I need to spend more time evaluating the highs...some tendency for sibilance from time to time. 

 The OPA2350/EL8201 would lend itself very well to the Sennheiser house sound as as Westone UMs, Atrios, etc. 

 I did try a number of different genres, including a variety of acoustical, vocal, and orchestral. All of the combinations did well with all of the types of music. 

 All music was high bitrate recordings played thru the line-out of my iRiver H120CF. Phones used for trials were Phonaks, Sony F-1, and Yuin G1A. 

 The Yuins were the hardest to drive and took the most volume, but at not time was I maxed out on volume, nor was there any audible distortion at the highest volume levels. 

 I do like the EL8201s better than the LMH6643 buffers personally. I found that they matched well with any LR opamps that I used with them. 

 Again, I want to state that I couldn't really pin down a "best-of-show" as they all sounded good, but with differing nuances of tonal shading and soundstage. It will be, as always, a matter of personal preference. The LR opamps mentioned above also sounded very good with the AD8656 buffers. The differences were mostly in how forward the highs sounded in comparison to the rest of the audio spectrum.


 Addendum: 

 Some worked really well, some not as well. Stellar performers in D10 L-R:
 OPA2350, OPA2228, AD8656, ADA4841-2 and similar-sounding TLC2202, THS4032, LTC6241HV. EL8201 is also worth auditioning in LR as well as buffer use. Very smooth and warm but doesn't mask the highs. 

 Buffers: LMH6655, AD8656, EL8201. Although I had high hopes for the LMH6622, it didn't sound nearly as good to me as the LMH6655 when used as a buffer. The LMH6622 does sound quite lively in LR though. (The 6655 is also serves as the ground opamp in D2 Topkit) 

 TLC2202/EL8201 very battery-friendly! Maybe not the best choice for bright phones. Mucho detail. 
 OPA2350...very good sound, fairly high battery draw...very similar battery requirements to THS4032. Sounds closer to the OPA627 than most any other opamp I can recall having tested. 

 The above suggestions are by no means all-inclusive. They are just the ones that I have spent time with during the past few days and feel that they are worthy of a listen.

 It seems that the D10 circuitry is designed in such a manner that enables many opamps to perform extremely well, assuming minimum supply voltages are met. 

 FWIW, I ended my day settling on the OPA2350/LMH6655 combination as my personal preference. It seems to do everything very well. I will probably spend some time trying to quantify some differences between this and the OPA2228/AD8656.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n0ah* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_excuse my reluctance to gloss through 121 pages but what's being regarded as the best way to connect this to a laptop between coax and optical? i've also only hooked up via usb so who can point me in the right direction of what exactly i need to make the connection when i do get my d10?_

 

Given those options I would use optical as a first, coax as a second and usb only as a third option. You get an optical cable with standard toslink in both ends with the amp and a usb cable but no coax. In all cases it should be just a plug and play option although I have only tried usb as that is all my pc supports. Optical and coax supports 24/96 (technically the dac chip supports 24/192 but iBasso has never tested that so don't know if it works). usb is limited to 16/48 max.


----------



## n0ah

are head-fi affiliates that do other high-end IC's doing toslink optical cables as well? could you link me to somewhere i can get a decent end one or is it pretty much a one option available kind of thing?

 also where does an optical cable hook up into my computer?


----------



## nc8000

The place for optical cables is Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more.

 If your computer has optical (like most Mac's) there will be a plug somewhere on it. It will likely either be a squareish toslink or a round (like a fimale 1/8") minitoslink (could be a dual purpose one that is both optical and electically analouge in the same hole).


----------



## mrarroyo

Ron, have you tried the LM4562 or the AD8616? What did you think?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ron, have you tried the LM4562 or the AD8616? What did you think?_

 

The LM4562 doesn't work at all...amp remains silent. The AD8616 sounds similar to the AD8656, but less full-bodied. 

 I am still doing some shuffling of combinations, using the OPA2228/AD8656 as my benchmark. 

 The EL8201 does seem to be a good buffer, maybe a little smoother than the AD8656. I just need to see what hooks up really well with it. 

 The AD8656, OPA2350, and LMH6622 all sounded very good with the EL8201, but I was getting tired and found it difficult to really sort out what I thought of each. 

 I do want to try the LMH6622 as buffers as well, as they are considerably different in their characteristics than the LMH6643 and LMH6655, and appear to have the potential to be a really good buffer.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who like the AD8656 for use in LR or buffer sockets, but would prefer a slightly less bright SQ, I found some very good low voltage opamps that perform very well in the D10. 
_

 

Ron, you're supposed to say that you HATE all the new combinations, so I wouldn't be tempted to get more, more, more!!!

 *checks bank account balance*

 BTW, do you think you could check out the OPA 2827, LT1028 and AD8022? Thank yuh


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is a game of dice played with 5 dice and more precisely describes a throw where all 5 dice sow the same value_

 

I love that game!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The place for optical cables is Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more.

 If your computer has optical (like most Mac's) there will be a plug somewhere on it. It will likely either be a squareish toslink or a round (like a fimale 1/8") minitoslink (could be a dual purpose one that is both optical and electically analouge in the same hole)._

 

If you have a laptop that advertises that it has a SPDIF out, then it should be a toslink. My Asus has a dual function socket; regular 3.5mm (1/8") miniplug for headphone out and optical SPIDIF in the same jack...you just need a toslink-to-mini adapter. Amazon.com has them pretty cheap.

 Thanks to these fine folks for helping me discover the optical out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is a game of dice played with 5 dice and more precisely describes a throw where all 5 dice sow the same value_

 

That's true...I remember that game...but I'm still not sure what the phrase Yahtzee actually means. But then again, yelling Jenga, bingo, blackjack or a number of other phrases during games doesn't mean anything, as far as I know. I guess it boils down to roughly "I win, suckas"

 The only one that really only makes sense is "You sank my Battleship!"

 Okay, enough off-topic from me!

 Has iBasso sent out any indication of when their desktop products may be out (other than "2009")?


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received reply from iBasso today that a *DAC only* version of D10 is under development. But no hint yet when we can expect a release. This is one of the reason I am holding back with current D10. Hopefully the wait won't be too long.

*EDIT:*
 Second email from iBasso says that they need 2 months to work on it.
_

 

My vote would be for them to design this DAC with all inputs and outputs on one side. Less importantly, a mini toslink connection would be nice as well. This would make it much easier to tie it together with other portable amps and a source (such as in a camera bag). 

 I'm planning to send them a note to this effect, but their website appears to be down at the moment.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ron, you're supposed to say that you HATE all the new combinations, so I wouldn't be tempted to get more, more, more!!!

 *checks bank account balance*

 BTW, do you think you could check out the OPA 2827, LT1028 and AD8022? Thank yuh_

 

I have tried the LT1028, but it didn't work well in the D10. I will order some of the OPA2827s and AD8022s and see what happens with them....so many opamps, so little time & $$, but what fun!


----------



## eam88

i am thinking about getting a d10 to use with my akg k272hd. would this be a good match to use through my computer (usb only)? i like the bright and airy nuforce icon mobile with the akgs but now i want an amp with a little more impact on the lower end. would the d10 do the trick? thanks in advance.


----------



## etys rule

DHL just handed me my D10. Had it shipped to the office as I knew I'd have to sign for it. Ordered on Wednesday in the AM, received today. 5 days. Incredible. Can't wait to get home and start the burn-in.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eam88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am thinking about getting a d10 to use with my akg k272hd. would this be a good match to use through my computer (usb only)? i like the bright and airy nuforce icon mobile with the akgs but now i want an amp with a little more impact on the lower end. would the d10 do the trick? thanks in advance._

 

I think it will do well, since it sounds good with my AKGK240M. If you don't think it is bright and airy enough you can get an AD8599 to use with stock buffers, or an OPA2228 to use with the spare set of AD8656 buffers that come with the D10.


----------



## eam88

thanks for the help Headphone Addict. I think i may end up selling the nuforce icon mobile and get the d10.


----------



## etys rule

Before I sit down to take a listen, thought I would take a peek. I am amazed at the circuitry inside the box. And to think, it was created in less than 3 days. Amazing.







[/url][/IMG]


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *etys rule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Before I sit down to take a listen, thought I would take a peek. I am amazed at the circuitry inside the box. And to think, it was created in less than 3 days. Amazing.






[/url][/IMG]_

 

I have heard from more than one manufacturing source that the Chinese have production facilities that can turn out some precision gear of absolutely incredible quality in small amounts of time.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

So far I am liking the OPA2228/AD8656 with the IE8 - the D10 sounds closer to the Amphora and Mustang now. It is slightly brighter than I like with the ES3X but definitely still enjoyable, as it still retains some warmth to the sound. It is also possibly similar sounding to the LTC6241HV with stock buffers, but I have not done a side by side comparison (takes a while to get the opamps swapped and audio memory is short). 

 I can't try the W3 with this yet, as I have loaned them out to Red Wine Audio for a little while. The HD600 also sound good with this opamp combo. I will try the RS-1, modded D2000 and ESW10 later as well.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

EDIT - Stupid forum tells me I have to wait 15 seconds to post again, and I'm thinking it was my post in another thread that was the problem - seems it had posted my reply and didn't update the webpage for me. Why does it trick us into double posting?


----------



## qusp

I dont know why it does that, but its really annoying and seems to be happening a lot lately too


----------



## qusp

I dont know why it does that, but its really annoying and seems to be happening a lot lately too


----------



## nc8000

Indeed


----------



## etys rule

Funny. Got my delivery notice email this morning. Had the amp for 12 hours. Guess they are busy making amps, not dispatching emails. Great company, great product for the money.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, I would like to buy the charge/sync cable for the iriver h120 but the company that sells them (thanks for giving me th elink) does only accept credit card which I do not have. I can pay through paypal though, would someone be willing to send me the cable? I will of course pay all the fees up front through paypal, my account is premium and verified.
 Please pm me.
 Thanks,
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, I would like to buy the charge/sync cable for the iriver h120 but the company that sells them (thanks for giving me th elink) does only accept credit card which I do not have. I can pay through paypal though, would someone be willing to send me the cable? I will of course pay all the fees up front through paypal, my account is premium and verified.
 Please pm me.
 Thanks,
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

I think if you can find someone from Netherlands then you could save a lot on shipping. And we've got quite a few people around here from NL.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, I would like to buy the charge/sync cable for the iriver h120 but the company that sells them (thanks for giving me th elink) does only accept credit card which I do not have. I can pay through paypal though, would someone be willing to send me the cable? I will of course pay all the fees up front through paypal, my account is premium and verified.
 Please pm me.
 Thanks,
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

If you can't find anybody closer by I'll get it for you.


----------



## Mystere

Anyone know how the D10 would stack up against the Audio-gd Compass?


----------



## n0ah

what are some noted headphones that really pair well with the d10? 225's are all that's in my rotation right now and have been for the last while. i want something new with the new amp. non-portable but something the d10 has more than enough power for.


----------



## stedes

Hey Guys...

 Just wondered what you thought regarding the D10 used with HD650s...Currently away from my Audible Illusions L1 (used as a head amp) and feeling that anything will be an improvement. Need a dac as well as amp so specs wise it looks just spot on...

 Any comments appreciated.


----------



## Anouk

Hello all, well my iriver isnt here yet but my sysconcept cable is, great service! The cable seems a tiny bit stiff though, its very small i hope it wont break or something when in the u-shape. I hope my iriver will be here beginning of next week.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## K_19

Are there any report of synergy of this with the ultra-picky K701 so far?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello all, well my iriver isnt here yet but my sysconcept cable is, great service! The cable seems a tiny bit stiff though, its very small i hope it wont break or something when in the u-shape. I hope my iriver will be here beginning of next week.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

The cable won't break and they are stiff but this type of cable always is. Just don't over bend it and flex it a lot. It will work fine and is designed to take the U bend required.


----------



## qusp

wondering if you guys could do me a favour; when I got my D10, there was a small scratch on the faceplate near the gain switchknob. very small and thin; this irritated me because I take really good care of my stuff and I had just sold my pico; which I had had for nearly 6 months and still in perfect condition. to receive something that out of the box has a reduced resale value is unacceptable. anyway I emailed ibasso with a picture and asking if they could just send a new faceplate; they agreed, so all was well....until it got here the other day and the faceplate itself had another small scratch in the same place, not quite as large, but still obviously a scratch and in exactly the same place in between the gain switch and headphone out. i'm wondering if their tooling or production line/process is the cause of this and all D10s have it.?? so could you guys have a look at your amps for me?? please?? it would put my mind at ease a bit and I wouldnt bother to ask for another one. but if not then I will have to ask for another one as its just not cool to have a new item that looks used.


----------



## jamato8

I don't see anything on mine. 

 If it really bothers you send me your better faceplate and I will send you mine.


----------



## Fastnbulbous

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are there any report of synergy of this with the ultra-picky K701 so far?_

 

I have the K701. However, D10 is my first headphone amp so I don't have much basis for comparison. I first tried it out with the optical output of my HK 645 receiver. With Blu Ray as a source it sounded great. Listening to music (uncompressed flac) via the SqueezeBox was a little disappointing, as there seemed little difference from the analog headphone jack. Maximum volume was only barely louder than my normal listening volume. Listening to flac through the USB on my office computer, though, was a vast improvement over the computer's DAC. 

 I ordered a pair of Denon AH-D1001K to use as sealed phones mainly with the bedroom SqueezeBox when my wife goes to sleep before me. I suspect the D10 will be more compatible with the Denon. I should probably get a full-size desktop amp to use with the K701, but would probably get in trouble buying something so soon after my 2nd Squeezebox/D10/Denon spree.


----------



## NoValidTitle

I just placed an order for one of these. I look forward to getting used to its sound then op rolling. Should be fun.


----------



## qusp

nice unfatigueing highs. but it hisses with my SE530 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 otherwise it sounds great with them; using AD8656 buffers, sounds great with my denons though. 

 miguel: thanks for the offer man, I might just take you up on it, but it doesnt feel quite right. you would think that when replacing a faceplate because it was scratched that they would check to make sure the replacement wasnt scratched 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it was well packed/padded fior the journey to me, so there must be something going on there that is causing it.


----------



## HiFlight

Topkit for D10 will launch this week!


----------



## dazzer1975

qusp:

 faceplate on my d10 looks scratch free, however, while I know you know what a scratch looks like, the finish on the faceplate is a kind of brushed effect running horizontally could it be possible that its just part of that with one of the "lines" just catching the light perhaps more than the others?

 Hiflight, any details on the topkit re contents and pricing, that would be great, thanks.


----------



## dazzer1975

.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Topkit for D10 will launch this week!_

 

I'm sure this is something I have missed, but what is Topkit ?


----------



## qusp

its HiFlights recommendations for the best op-amps for a product, hes done it for the D1 and a couple of other amps so far. I guess hes been researching the best ones for the D10 and now hes ready to release his findings to the world hehe.

 Dazzer: its a scratch man; I do realize its a brushed metal finish, you dont seriously think i'm that dohey do you?? dont answer that hehe

 no its definitely a scratch on both panels. all the brushing is very fine and al in a consistent, horizontal direction. these 2 are in totally random angular directions and also dont go across the face. they are short and not straight either.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Topkit for D10 will launch this week!_

 

Is this the one where you have to leave the cover off the D10?


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Topkit for D10 will launch this week!_

 

What does it consist of?


----------



## yukihiro

Ooo... Looking forward to the details of the topkit.


----------



## TopQuark

TopKit sold as a kit. That will be nice.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, plug and play. :^) The term that really "fits" here.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this the one where you have to leave the cover off the D10?_

 


 No, that was only for testing. The kit will consist of (2) AD743 opamps silver-soldered directly to an adapter. There are no sockets, so the adapter will fit very nicely with plenty of clearance in the LR socket of the D10. 

 While many buffers sounded good to me, IMO, the best of all the trials was when using the AD8616. (2) of these are required as well. They are silver-soldered to a gold-plated adapter that is smaller than the browndog and will fit side-by-side in the buffer sockets without having to file edges.

 The AD8616 has a very low quiescent current draw, but is capable of outputting a very respectable amount of current. It is low-noise, can swing voltage rail-to-rail, is unity gain stable and has nearly perfect squarewave response. All of these are characteristics of a really good buffer. 

 The AD743 has long been one of my favorite audio opamps, but is becoming very scarce, as the 8-pin DIP version is no longer being produced. 

 The 743 was primarily used in sonar applications but due to the very low noise and distortion specifications it works beautifully in audio applications. It is a very accurate opamp that is superbly well-balanced across the entire audio spectrum. Instruments and vocals are both reproduced very realistically. 

 The 743/8616 have an excellent synergy and, IMO, allows the D10 to really exhibit its full potential. 

 Please PM me for further details. It is not my intention for this post to be business-related, but rather a service for those who do not feel comfortable soldering small expensive devices.


----------



## jamato8

Ok, sorry, I had to try it. You know sometimes I get the ole soldering iron out even though after years, I don't really get into modifying that much now. 

 So the D10 got nonpolar Black Gates vs. stock caps. What an a tight fit. I had to move the battery over, not hard and there was room but the length of the big reds was longer as was/is the diameter. The two big 1500uf caps got changed out as did the 470uf for smaller value but totally excellent, exceptional, nonpolar red Black Gates. They are burning in. What a tight fit. Not for the faint of heart. 

 Now, to try that top kit, if I can get the amp open. . ?? . . . oh, I don't have a top kit. :^( well I do have pay pal. :^)


----------



## EFN

The good thing about D10 is how one can mod them with caps rolling as well....which makes me rethink the need to wait for a DAC only version....I am having very hard time here to hold my horses againt the urge to buy the current D10....hopefully iBasso will not take too long to start selling the DAC only unit


----------



## HiFlight

There are also some other opamps that sound quite good that I have never posted previously. The OPA2350, TLC2202, and the EL8201. 

 All three sound good in LR and the 8201 also does well as a buffer. 

 The 2350 and 2202 are DIP and do not require an adapter, although I would suggest a DIP socket to keep from damaging the rather fragile leads while inserting and removing them. I will add them to my list on page 30 of this thread.


----------



## mrarroyo

I am also waiting for the DAC only version of the D10.


----------



## jamato8

It won't be from iBasso.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, that was only for testing. The kit will consist of (2) AD743 opamps silver-soldered directly to an adapter. There are no sockets, so the adapter will fit very nicely with plenty of clearance in the LR socket of the D10. 

 While many buffers sounded good to me, IMO, the best of all the trials was when using the AD8616. (2) of these are required as well. They are silver-soldered to a gold-plated adapter that is smaller than the browndog and will fit side-by-side in the buffer sockets without having to file edges.

 The AD8616 has a very low quiescent current draw, but is capable of outputting a very respectable amount of current. It is low-noise, can swing voltage rail-to-rail, is unity gain stable and has nearly perfect squarewave response. All of these are characteristics of a really good buffer. 

 The AD743 has long been one of my favorite audio opamps, but is becoming very scarce, as the 8-pin DIP version is no longer being produced. 

 The 743 was primarily used in sonar applications but due to the very low noise and distortion specifications it works beautifully in audio applications. It is a very accurate opamp that is superbly well-balanced across the entire audio spectrum. Instruments and vocals are both reproduced very realistically. 

 The 743/8616 have an excellent synergy and, IMO, allows the D10 to really exhibit its full potential. 

 Please PM me for further details. It is not my intention for this post to be business-related, but rather a service for those who do not feel comfortable soldering small expensive devices._

 

All you had to say was, "No, the cover will fit". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Count me in!


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It won't be from iBasso._

 

But they did emailed me stating that they are working on it. In two months time we will know for sure.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, that was only for testing. The kit will consist of (2) AD743 opamps silver-soldered directly to an adapter. There are no sockets, so the adapter will fit very nicely with plenty of clearance in the LR socket of the D10. 

 While many buffers sounded good to me, IMO, the best of all the trials was when using the AD8616. (2) of these are required as well. They are silver-soldered to a gold-plated adapter that is smaller than the browndog and will fit side-by-side in the buffer sockets without having to file edges.

 The AD8616 has a very low quiescent current draw, but is capable of outputting a very respectable amount of current. It is low-noise, can swing voltage rail-to-rail, is unity gain stable and has nearly perfect squarewave response. All of these are characteristics of a really good buffer. 

 The AD743 has long been one of my favorite audio opamps, but is becoming very scarce, as the 8-pin DIP version is no longer being produced. 

 The 743 was primarily used in sonar applications but due to the very low noise and distortion specifications it works beautifully in audio applications. It is a very accurate opamp that is superbly well-balanced across the entire audio spectrum. Instruments and vocals are both reproduced very realistically. 

 The 743/8616 have an excellent synergy and, IMO, allows the D10 to really exhibit its full potential. 

 Please PM me for further details. It is not my intention for this post to be business-related, but rather a service for those who do not feel comfortable soldering small expensive devices._

 

DAMN Ron, you mean I have to buy MORE op-amps from you? i'm more interested in the buffers TBH, but single channel options sounds interesting too. please hold one for me, but dont worry about soldering it all up. I can do that. but if you can keep the parts for me that would be great.

 jamato, very interested in your impressions once you burn the caps in, I have plenty of caps to roll.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, sorry, I had to try it. You know sometimes I get the ole soldering iron out even though after years, I don't really get into modifying that much now. 

 So the D10 got nonpolar Black Gates vs. stock caps. What an a tight fit. I had to move the battery over, not hard and there was room but the length of the big reds was longer as was/is the diameter. The two big 1500uf caps got changed out as did the 470uf for smaller value but totally excellent, exceptional, nonpolar red Black Gates. They are burning in. What a tight fit. Not for the faint of heart. 

 Now, to try that top kit, if I can get the amp open. . ?? . . . oh, I don't have a top kit. :^( well I do have pay pal. :^)_

 

finally you roll the caps... What is the value you are using? did you change the decoupling cap as well?


----------



## jamato8

There will be a couple of more caps change after these power section caps burn in. That is the only way to know what change there is with each change. 

 I used 470uf for the larger ones, which is 2/3's less but the nonpolar retains the good bass as they are very fast with a very, very low esr and 220uf for the 470uf. It is not an easy fit.


----------



## Kclone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It won't be from iBasso._

 

sorry for being a little slow on the uptake, but are you saying that iBasso won't do a DAC only version? I was hoping to compare the DAC here to the Headamp Pico stand alone DAC.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kclone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry for being a little slow on the uptake, but are you saying that iBasso won't do a DAC only version? I was hoping to compare the DAC here to the Headamp Pico stand alone DAC._

 

The best information will come directly from iBasso. I would email them and ask.


----------



## Paddy855

I want to order some new opamps for my D10 from Digi-Key (or is there a better place)? There are so many different part numbers for each opamps, and I have no idea which is the right one for the D10: Do I need the EL8201IS or EL8201ISZ, the AD8397ARDZ or AD8397ARZ, the OPA2228P or OPA2228PA?


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Paddy855* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I want to order some new opamps for my D10 from Digi-Key (or is there a better place)? There are so many different part numbers for each opamps, and I have no idea which is the right one for the D10: Do I need the EL8201IS or EL8201ISZ, the AD8397ARDZ or AD8397ARZ, the OPA2228P or OPA2228PA?_

 


 Yeah, all those suffixes can be confusing. Basically, you need to look for "Dip" or PDIP packages, with 8 pins. The OPA2228P/PA is a dip packaging. I believe the "P" indicates dip. The "A" refers to a certain specification (DC offset voltage) that is basically inaudible, so you don't have to worry about the A/no A.

 The AD8397 and EL8201 are SOIC, so you'd have to solder them onto a "brown dog" soic to dip adapter.

 HiFlight has a bunch of opamps already soldered. 

 Also, make sure the voltage range of opamps are low enough for the ~4.5 V that the D10 puts out.


----------



## Paddy855

Thank you so much, clasam. That really helped a lot!


----------



## clasam

No problem...it wasn't too long ago that I had these same exact questions!


----------



## rhy

anyone have any experience with the d10 on some ultra 780/750 or denon 2000/5000? enough stuff?


----------



## smallcaps

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Paddy855* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I want to order some new opamps for my D10 from Digi-Key (or is there a better place)? There are so many different part numbers for each opamps, and I have no idea which is the right one for the D10: Do I need the EL8201IS or EL8201ISZ, the AD8397ARDZ or AD8397ARZ, the OPA2228P or OPA2228PA?_

 

HiFlight is your man when looking for opamps. i just ordered some from him and he is very helpful and communicative.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone have any experience with the d10 on some ultra 780/750 or denon 2000/5000? enough stuff?_

 

not with the ultrasones, but my woodied, MarkL modded and jena recabled D2000 (think of them like D5000 on steroids) sound great with D10, really superb especially with the OPA2111 i'm currently running. the OPA2111 hisses a bit with IEMs, but with less efficient headphones the soundstage is to die for and the bass slam is immense for a portable; in fact i'm even using it with IEMs sometimes because I can put up with it (the hiss) with very spaciouys music because the rest of its performance is soooo wonderful. all the same the lisa via D10 aux is better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 however the D10 drives or rather synergizes better with the D10 than my pico did.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Modded D2000 here too, and they do very well with the D10, but so did my Edition 9. However, the Edition 9 did even better off the ALO Amphora than off the D10 or other portable amps - The Amphora was almost enough to keep me from selling the Ed 9 except that I needed money to pay for my HD800 and wasn't using the Ed 9 as much as the D2000.


----------



## ashwindsharma

So I've been using my iBasso D10 as both a home (temporarily) and portable DAC/Amp and it's been working great, however, recently it is very unreliable in listening to music through it's line in port. It sounds like there is no lower frequency sound at times, and others times it will only work for a certain amount of time. The only way I seem to get proper sound is when I don't plug my cable all the way into my LOD and leave one notch unplugged. I know it's not the source since the problem is reproducible with 3 iPod and 2 computers. That also means it's not the LOD either. It may be the cable but that doesn't seem like the problem. I know the actual D10 works since it works perfectly through USB and optical. Any ideas?


----------



## HiFlight

The symptoms, as you describe them, sound like a broken wire in your lead from the LOD to the Aux in. To rule that out, try a different cable. 
 With the cable not fully seated, you are running only one source channel thru the good wire to both channels in the amp. 

 Good luck, and hopefully it is something easily fixed, such as a cable.


----------



## ashwindsharma

Thanks, turns out you were right! I had already checked that by switching the cable but, of course, the other cable I was using was broken as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. 
 Any recommendations on flexible, short, and inexpensive cables?


----------



## stedes

Hey ashwindsharma,

 Nice to see you're using a similar (future) setup to mine. I've just ordered a D10 to use with my HD650s. First amp/dac for headphones ever. How do the HD650s sound with the D10...mine's on the way and I can't wait!


----------



## stedes

Hey ashwindsharma,

 Nice to see you're using a similar (future) setup to mine. I've just ordered a D10 to use with my HD650s. First amp/dac for headphones ever. How do the HD650s sound with the D10...mine's on the way and I can't wait!


----------



## wolfen68

If someone wouldn't mind helping "ed-u-kate" me a bit...

 From my understanding, a "topkit" is a selected opamp set to roll into an amp...and in this case includes additional assembled undercomponents to allow the dual mounting of single opamps into a native dual opamp slot. 

 What would be the benefit over "regular" opamp rolling? Is it just the matter of more potential opamp selection? Does battery life take an automatic hit...or is it dependent only on the opamp/buffers itself such as when rolling the D10 normally? 

 Any info is appreciated as it does not seem that search has brought up much on this concept.....


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If someone wouldn't mind helping "ed-u-kate" me a bit...

 From my understanding, a "topkit" is a selected opamp set to roll into an amp...and in this case includes additional assembled undercomponents to allow the dual mounting of single opamps into a native dual opamp slot. 

 What would be the benefit over "regular" opamp rolling? Is it just the matter of more potential opamp selection? Does battery life take an automatic hit...or is it dependent only on the opamp/buffers itself such as when rolling the D10 normally? 

 Any info is appreciated as it does not seem that search has brought up much on this concept....._

 

My "Topkits" are simply a matching of opamps/buffers/adapters that, to my ear, sound as lifelike as is possible. I also try them with a variety of phones and IEMs to make sure they are all equally compatible. I also test the combinations with a variety of different music genre's, as all opamps do not always flatter all types of music (or phones). 

 I consider balance, tonal accuracy, imaging and soundstage as well as battery life. Of course the availability and cost of the devices themselves are also a consideration. 

 I do consider battery life, but that is secondary to the actual sound quality. All of the Topkits to date have yielded decent battery life. 

 I also mount all of the components using high-quality gold-plated adapters and silver-solder so that all the components are "plug and play". The user only needs to make sure they are correctly inserted into the sockets with the proper polarity. 

 I make no claim that my choices are the best available on an absolute scale, but rather run thru dozens of different combinations of opamps and buffers/ground devices and finally pick the combination that sounds best (most realistic) to ME! YMMV!

 Please note also that this is not a business enterprise, but rather a hobby that allows me to provide a means of improving the performance of certain amps for those individuals who might not have the time or technical skills to pursue this on their own.


----------



## smallcaps

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My "Topkits" are simply a matching of opamps/buffers/adapters that, to my ear, sound as lifelike as is possible. I also try them with a variety of phones and IEMs to make sure they are all equally compatible. I also test the combinations with a variety of different music genre's, as all opamps do not always flatter all types of music (or phones). 

 I consider balance, tonal accuracy, imaging and soundstage as well as battery life. Of course the availability and cost of the devices themselves are also a consideration. 

 I do consider battery life, but that is secondary to the actual sound quality. All of the Topkits to date have yielded decent battery life. 

 I also mount all of the components using high-quality gold-plated adapters and silver-solder so that all the components are "plug and play". The user only needs to make sure they are correctly inserted into the sockets with the proper polarity. 

 I make no claim that my choices are the best available on an absolute scale, but rather run thru dozens of different combinations of opamps and buffers/ground devices and finally pick the combination that sounds best (most realistic) to ME! YMMV!

 Please note also that this is not a business enterprise, but rather a hobby that allows me to provide a means of improving the performance of certain amps for those individuals who might not have the time or technical skills to pursue this on their own._

 

looking forward to getting my topkit from HiFlight to try out in my d10. have put about 72h on it so far and boy am i enjoying it with stock opamps. i am about to start playing with the opamps provided by ibasso. 

 its amazing how much amp rolling can change a listening experience; just as much as swapping headphones in my opinion. i had this experience first when upgrading my old practical devices xm4. swapping the stock opamp to the ad8620 made the xm4 seem brand new. too bad the ad8260 is not compatible with the d10. so far it has been my fav opamp.


----------



## nc8000

Mine is coming up on 1000 hours and still running the stock configuration which to me is so ggod that I have had no desire to tinker with anything else.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

If I hadn't been trying to make it sound good with the IE8, I'd be perfectly fine stock too. But, I'm still going to try the AD743 top kit with AD8616, since I love the AD743 in my Travagans Red and they were great in the D1 before that. Stock the D10 is like a Predator clone with a better DAC.


----------



## smallcaps

i'm also trying to pair it with my ie8's but i do admit that the stock opamps thus far in my short time with the d10 has been good. my ie8's still have some burning in to go through too, so i can imagine it would be a futile but at least interesting exercise to try to define a good combo at this moment for my current setup. would it be wiser for me to burn in the headphones first so that i can use them as a bar to measure opamp sound changes with the d10?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Well I have a hand full of opamps here from HiFlight to try in my D10, so this should be a fun next couple of days!


----------



## Paddy855

I only so far use the D10 with my Westone 3's and among all the opamps provided stock by iBasso I found that with the AD8656 in LR and LMH6643 as buffers the D10 sounds best with the W3: Extremely fast, tight and articulate throughout the whole spectrum with the mids slightly forward (possibly due to boosted upper mids) and crisp clean detail with excellent instrument separation. Soundstage is also considerably wider than with the D10's stock configuration. I will receive new opamps from HiFlight soon and I am sure to find other lovely options in them.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Paddy855* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I only so far use the D10 with my Westone 3's and among all the opamps provided stock by iBasso I found that with the AD8656 in LR and LMH6643 as buffers the D10 sounds best with the W3: Extremely fast, tight and articulate throughout the whole spectrum with the mids slightly forward (possibly due to boosted upper mids) and crisp clean detail with excellent instrument separation. Soundstage is also considerably wider than with the D10's stock configuration. I will receive new opamps from HiFlight soon and I am sure to find other lovely options in them._

 

I always tended to like the buffers bypassed when using the AD8656 in LR, but I neglected to try the LMH6643 in the buffers with it. I'll try to get a round tuit when my W3 return from being out on loan.


----------



## Dchenlin

So far loving my D10, my only grip is the static it gives off when paired up with my Itouch 2nd gen. When i turn off the Wi-Fi the problem goes away. Although it's only a minor nuisance and I never had this problem with my predator. Aside from that digging trance on it. Pretty surprising that such a small unit can power my DT880's and HD600's, and all for under 3 bills, makes me want to sell my predator now!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

HiFlight likes to play with opamps in various amps, and find the best combo possible and then call it his "topkit" for that amp. And usually his picks are spot on. Going from memory, with the iBasso D2 Viper it was the LTC6241HV with LMH6655 in the ground channel and it sounded as good as a fully burned-in Predator. With the Head-direct EF1 it was the AD743 on a 2:1 adapter with a JJ tube. With the iBasso D1 it was the AD743 on a 2:1 with the LMH6655 in the buffers. And he always manages to find several opamp combos that work very well in addition to that.

 I just installed the D10 "topkit" with AD743 and AD8616 as buffers a couple of days ago and I have been listening and trying to compare to my P-51 Mustang, and I can say the Topkit brings the D10 closer to the P-51 than I had ever hoped for. I may actually slightly prefer the D10 now, with the limited phones I have tried so far. It is very good with Senn IE8, and also with my HD600 and D2000, Phonak Audeo and ES3X. I am still testing it out with more phones, but wanted to share this now. 

 My IE8 are picky about the amp I use and I like it with the IE8 a little more than the OPA2228/AD8656 that I had in the D10 previously. And as an added bonus this new opamp combo works well with my ES3X and HD600 too. Some opamp combos that are great with the IE8 are too thin with my other IEM and headphones (AD8599/AD8656), which is more of an issue I have with the IE8 than the amp. But with the right opamps the IE8 definitely sing, and this is one of those instances, where it brings the D10 close to the level of the ALO Amphora with the IE8. There is minimal hiss with the 16 ohm IE8, but with the ES3X there is a bit of hiss at about the level of the Macbook Pro headphone out or the ALO Amphora. This is easily fixed with a Shure volume attenuator and the volume control rolled about 2 - 3 mm quieter. The sound is good enough that I was going to leave it with these opamps forever, and stop trying others.

 I like the sound of the "topkit" (AD743/AD8616) so much I wasn't looking forward to trying out some other opamp combos that I promised to try, but tonight I moved to the OPA2350 with the AD8616 as buffers. With my ES3X this one is totally free of hiss and absolutely beautiful, with good strong bass and excellent transparency. I am listening to Patricia Barber "Cafe Blue" and "Companion" right now and it's like I am right there in the night club. I prefer both of these setups a little over the OPA2228 with AD8656 buffers. It is not quite as good with the HD600 as the others, but still at least as good as stock I think. I still have to try the OPA2350 with the IE8, Phonak, RS-1 and D2000.

 I will report back later. And I also have a TLC2202 and a LMH6321 here, but didn't get the EL8201 I was going to test.

 EDIT - Okay, the OPA2350/AD8616 works very well with the IE8 as well as my ES3X, although it does have more bass than the AD743 which can be almost too much with the IE8 now (but not crossing that line).

 EDIT - I put the AD743 back in and they are still better than the OPA2350 or OPA2228, although the OPA are close. The AD743 is just a little more transparent, and still has great bass.

 EDIT - I put in the TLC2202 and it too sounds very good with the IE8, and very much like the OPA opamps did. I must be getting fatigued, because they all sound good to me with very small differences. It also has more bass with the IE8, like the OPA opamps. I still prefer the AD743.


----------



## jamato8

Yes the AD743's sound great. The soundstage is wide and deeper and yet everything is still focussed. On some of my Dead live recordings the audience has a spooky quality it is so real and well placed.


----------



## HK_sends

Gents,

 The AD743 and AD8616 topkit interests me. Where can I pick these up? From HiFlight?

 Thanks in advance,
 -HK sends


----------



## rhw

John and Larry,
 great review of the D10 and opamp rolling - as always.
 It is really fun to read it - but I had to order a D10 afterwards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is a fine sounding amp, especially with optical in from a MacBook....

 What is about your experience with the AD743 - Hiflight`s TopKit and the Grado RS1?

 many thanks for your efforts!!!!!


----------



## qusp

well I'm interested if OPA2111 can be beat. IMO its better than any other I have tried in the D10. with AD8656 buffers. the bass control is AWESOME and soundstage is amazing. of course my D10 is pretty well burnt in now too, so this probably has something to do with it. I havent felt the need to try any other opamps for almost a week. it brings the SE530 to a whole new level in fact I might even say that I prefer the SE530 with D10 and the 4g photo DIYMOD (just finished it and with new tricks, using 2 twisted pairs of silver in cotton, so quiet and really great sounding) to SE530 with my main rig. W3 still sound better with main rig though with iriver and lisa with D10 as dac only. cant wait to get my UM3X; ordered the other day and by the sounds of it, I think they will go really great together while I wait for my ES3X


----------



## smallcaps

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But with the right opamps the IE8 definitely sing, and this is one of those instances, where it brings the D10 close to the level of the ALO Amphora with the IE8._

 

w00t! thanks for the measured and knowledgeable feedback regarding HiFlight's topkit for the D10. this really sounds like 'the one' and its nice to hear that it makes the ie8's more 'compatible' with the rest of your system. i have a pair of hd580 and was worried that i would have to opamp roll my d10 every time i wanted good synergy between the two. looking forward to any thing else you can share that comes up in your experiences with the topkit


----------



## qusp

^^ just buy it already will ya


----------



## smallcaps

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^ just buy it already will ya 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 actually i bought it a week ago! the kits that have gone out have been for testing and i am waiting for the final production kit.


----------



## qusp

aha; I got it already too, yeah from what Ron says he doesnt foresee any problems occurring to halt the start of shipping tomorrow. I tried to suggest that he just send it to me immediately (im an impatient type of guy) but he wanted to test it more thoroughly with the scope. plus I suppose with me being in OZ, if there was a problem its a way away to ship it back. cant wait; my collection will be just about complete then and I can stop fiddling (actually pretty unlikely, but thats what I keep telling myself) i'll be all ready for my new westones.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is about your experience with the AD743 - Hifilight`s TopKit and the Grado RS1?_

 

I'll try to get to the RS-1 later today.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*well I'm interested if OPA2111 can be beat. IMO its better than any other I have tried in the D10. with AD8656 buffers.* the bass control is AWESOME and soundstage is amazing. of course my D10 is pretty well burnt in now too, so this probably has something to do with it. I havent felt the need to try any other opamps for almost a week. it brings the SE530 to a whole new level in fact I might even say that I prefer the SE530 with D10 and the 4g photo DIYMOD (just finished it and with new tricks, using 2 twisted pairs of silver in cotton, so quiet and really great sounding) to SE530 with my main rig. W3 still sound better with main rig though with iriver and lisa with D10 as dac only. cant wait to get my UM3X; ordered the other day and by the sounds of it, I think they will go really great together while I wait for my ES3X_

 

I know with the iBasso D1 and with one other amp (trying to recall if that was the Travagans Red) that the AD743 have beat the OPA2111 every time. I don't have an OPA2111 because I sold it with my D1, so I can't compare in the D10, but I suspect the results will be the same as before.


----------



## jamato8

The D10 will be out of stock until the middle of May due to some high grade caps that are used being in short supply.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll try to get to the RS-1 later today.



 I know with the iBasso D1 and with one other amp (trying to recall if that was the Travagans Red) that the AD743 have beat the OPA2111 every time. I don't have an OPA2111 because I sold it with my D1, so I can't compare in the D10, but I suspect the results will be the same as before._

 


 like I said; interested to see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've already ordered it (top kit) last week when it was hinted at. I am finding OPA2111 superior in every way to my ears than 2228


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll try to get to the RS-1 later today._

 

I would be interested in that as well.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll try to get to the RS-1 later today.



 I know with the iBasso D1 and with one other amp (trying to recall if that was the Travagans Red) that the AD743 have beat the OPA2111 every time. I don't have an OPA2111 because I sold it with my D1, so I can't compare in the D10, but I suspect the results will be the same as before._

 

IMHO, the AD743 betters the OPA2111 by quite a margin in tonal accuracy and a sense of realism although the soundstage of the OPA2111 is slightly wider.

 Unrelated to the above, while scope-testing the AD743/8616 combo, I checked the D10 gain. While I can't specify what low and high gain actually are, I did measure exactly 3db difference between the low and high gain settings.


----------



## qusp

^^ yeah well its really the soundstage and bass that has me hooked as i'm using IEMs with it usually and since any improvement in soundstage with IEMs is appreciated; i'm very happy with it. also IEMs will exibit width more than depth in soundstage; another plus


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^ yeah well its really the soundstage and bass that has me hooked as i'm using IEMs with it usually and since any improvement in soundstage with IEMs is appreciated; i'm very happy with it. also IEMs will exibit width more than depth in soundstage; another plus_

 

I think you would like the OPA2350 a lot. The AD743 is better with everything, but with my ES3X the OPA2450 is magical and it doesn't have the low level hiss in the background between songs when using the ES3X like the AD743. The IE8 and W3 definitely don't show hiss as easily as my ES3X or Livewires. *Nevertheless, the AD743/AD8616 sounds so good I left that in the D10 and put the screws back in the case for now*. At some point I need to try the OPA2350 with the RS-1 and D2000, even though it wasn't as good with the IE8 and HD600 as the AD743, because of how good it sounds with the ES3X.

*To the other's asking about the RS-1 with the "topkit"* - the Grado RS-1 sound really great on the D10 with the AD743/AD8616 setup. I get back a lot of the space and soundstage that I gave up when I decided to leave the flat pads on the RS-1, with good tight bass. But remember, my RS-1 have the APS V3 cable on them as well, and are an early S/N #667 (yeah, missed #666 by " " that much)


----------



## jamato8

Ok I have taken out the stock buffers and am using the AD8616 with the AD743N. Pretty fierce sound. The solid bass feels like it is flexing my head. :^) well I could use a good massage.


----------



## Fantoon

Nice thread guys, I've been reading this thread for quite some time now. Honestly maybe too much info to take in considering 128 pages. But job well done! Anyway, I am looking to invest in a headphone configuration consisting of a headphone, an amp, and a dac. 

 I've recently been to a hifi store near by. Listening to a couple of AKG 601 and 701. The soundstage is amazing, maybe too bright and there is a lack of bass?. Anyway, I don't think it will satisfy my kind of music and there is the sound leakage. That experience made me look into some closed phones. The AKG K271 Studio or the K272HD (what's the difference anyway?). My thoughts is to couple that with the D10 to my laptop.

 How much difference is there between the USB input and the digital counterpart on the iBasso D10?

 I've no experience with previous phones or headphone amps worth mentioning, suggestions and advice are welcomed. I'm new to this board and thought of no better place to get some answers.

 Best wishes.


----------



## Fantoon

Double Post


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you would like the OPA2350 a lot. The AD743 is better with everything, but with my ES3X the OPA2450 is magical and it doesn't have the low level hiss in the background between songs when using the ES3X like the AD743. The IE8 and W3 definitely don't show hiss as easily as my ES3X or Livewires. *Nevertheless, the AD743/AD8616 sounds so good I left that in the D10 and put the screws back in the case for now*. At some point I need to try the OPA2350 with the RS-1 and D2000, even though it wasn't as good with the IE8 and HD600 as the AD743, because of how good it sounds with the ES3X.

*To the other's asking about the RS-1 with the "topkit"* - the Grado RS-1 sound really great on the D10 with the AD743/AD8616 setup. I get back a lot of the space and soundstage that I gave up when I decided to leave the flat pads on the RS-1, with good tight bass. But remember, my RS-1 have the APS V3 cable on them as well, and are an early S/N #667 (yeah, missed #666 by " " that much)_

 

yeah well I was reading your post earlier about OPA2350 and I actually got Ron to add it to the topkit for me, as it does sound like its for me; also the fact that Ron mentions great synergy with westone and I will be using with westone most of the time. i've spent almost half again on opamps as the amp itself LOL. typical me; tweakin. i'm not your average tweaker though; as I still use the tweaks to enjoy the music more rather than the other way around; which I accept, but find a little confusing.

 turns out i'm more of a burr brown fan than analogue devices. my kit is usually just on the warm side of transparent; and most of that comes from my headphones and only a smidge from amping and interconnects/caps. its funny I was just talking about this the other night with webbie; we seem to have pretty much the same goal, but come at it from different angles. I like a pretty detailed and nearly dry amping setup that is very transparent, but very slightly warm in the midrange, but apart from piccolino I tend to prefer copper cables; at least the signal leg is copper with silver return wires; but my headphones are on the warm side; webbie likes etys and other more clinical and dry sounding headphones, and preferrs silver the whole way through in his cables, but adds his warmth with amping. still I think my preference is for an ever so slightly warmer SQ than him, but all things considered only just. headphones will obviously influence the sound sig more than cables and amping, but synergy means that we come pretty close to meeting in the middle.

 sorry for the OT guys, but its kinda related to the topic at hand considering the ability we have with the D10 to alter the SQ to a degree, along with the other changes that can be made to ones rig without changing headphones; I thought it worth a mention


----------



## charlie0904

Is the D10 more powerful in driving headphones than mustang?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *charlie0904* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the D10 more powerful in driving headphones than mustang?_

 

The output of the stock D10 is 120mA, the P-51 around 250mA. The D10 can be changed to different output opamps so you can increase it to 250mA also. It would be the same then but not more. Operating voltage is the same.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*To the other's asking about the RS-1 with the "topkit"* - the Grado RS-1 sound really great on the D10 with the AD743/AD8616 setup. I get back a lot of the space and soundstage that I gave up when I decided to leave the flat pads on the RS-1, with good tight bass. But remember, my RS-1 have the APS V3 cable on them as well, and are an early S/N #667 (yeah, missed #666 by " " that much)_

 

Many thanks for reporting.
 I will try the tOPkit with my (last year) RS-1 - far behind #667 - #6922


----------



## Fantoon

I am sorry if I wasn't Clear enough. Is the ibasso d10 good enough to serve as a main dac/amp with a AKG 701 using the usb port to my laptop? Comparing this configuration to a pro-ject USB Box and the head box ii.

 Best wishes


----------



## jamato8

Yes it will drive the K701 fine. You still won't get any real bass but that is the nature of the 701.


----------



## LeeSC

I would like to replace the stock opamp with AD8599. When I opened up the amp, I saw two chip side-by-side and one on top. Is the one on top the opamp and bottom one (side-by-side) the buffers?


----------



## nc8000

The single one on the top is the opamp and the 2 side-by-side are the buffers


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to replace the stock opamp with AD8599. When I opened up the amp, I saw two chip side-by-side and one on top. Is the one on top the opamp and bottom one (side-by-side) the buffers?_

 

That AD8599 should work better with your Edition 9, and try that with the AD8656 buffers that came with the D10 as I found that combo a little brighter and less bassy with better bass control in the Ed 9 than stock. It has a great sense of space as well, and with the Senn IE8 was almost magical as well. The buffers make a big difference, and the AD8656 will be brighter and more energetic than the stock buffers combined with the AD8599.

 Also the AD8066 may be another good choice for the Edition 9. I believe another good opamp with the Edition 9 allowing better bass control with Ed9 along with a little more brightness would be the OPA2228 and the LTC6241HV. Those two are a little better "all rounders" than the AD8599 which sounded great with Ed 9, Westone 3, Denon D2000, and Senn IE8 and HD600. The AD8599 still sounded a little thin with my Westone ES3X, Phonak Audeo, Livewires and RS-1 which are not as bass tilted as the others.

 I wish I had had the chance to try this AD743/AD8616 combo (like $65) with the Edition 9 before I sold them to you to pay for my EC ZDT amp. But this might have more bass than you want.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to replace the stock opamp with AD8599. When I opened up the amp, I saw two chip side-by-side and one on top. Is the one on top the opamp and bottom one (side-by-side) the buffers?_

 

Yep, you got it. Just make sure that the "square" is on the bottom right corner, and press the edges of the adapter into the sockets, don't press on the soic chip itself.


----------



## LeeSC

Thanks everyone, and yes I was careful not to press on the chip itself but on the edges while sitting it back on the socket.

 The AD8599 really change the sound around for the Edition 9. It was really thin on the mid with stock opamp on the Edition 9. Now the viola sounds much better. However, I did realize that there is no sound coming on for 1~2 second when I first turn on my D10 even when the source is there. When I turn the unit off, I can hear sort of a hissing sound dying off. There is no such "hiss" when the unit is in operation (not powering up/down). I don't recall hearing this before rolling. May be I will try to roll the original opamp back in and see.


----------



## LeeSC

Sorry, duplicated post.


----------



## HiFlight

That behavior is perfectly normal. The delay is due to the microprocessor deciding which input to activate. The hiss when turning the amp off is due to the decreasing voltage to the opamp. Different opamps exhibit slightly different characteristics when shutting down.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks everyone, and yes I was careful not to press on the chip itself but on the edges while sitting it back on the socket.

 The AD8599 really change the sound around for the Edition 9. It was really thin on the mid with stock opamp on the Edition 9. Now the viola sounds much better. However, I did realize that there is no sound coming on for 1~2 second when I first turn on my D10 even when the source is there. When I turn the unit off, I can hear sort of a hissing sound dying off. There is no such "hiss" when the unit is in operation (not powering up/down). I don't recall hearing this before rolling. May be I will try to roll the original opamp back in and see._

 

Like HiFlight says, don't worry about the 1-2 second delay on start up, or the hiss as the opamp drains power when you shut off - that is fine. I'm very interested in more of your impressions with the AD8599 and Edition 9.


----------



## HeadDoc

Hi everybody,

 So, D10 came in a few days ago and I've been playing. A set of Westone 3's came in at the same time, so I've really been playing. I do have a few questions for the great minds that have produced this mammoth information thread.

 I am listening to WASAPI USB --> Foobar FLAC --> D10 and either Westone 3's or HD650's.

 1) I can barely get the volume out of the HD650's that I would like. Should I roll Opamps or Buffers? or both? I have never rolled, so any detail will help. And I will spend some time reviewing this thread today. The sound from the Westone's is amazing. But I could use a little more power for the HD650's. Where should I start?

 2) I have tried Aux in/out from the D10 to the Rega Ear and get good sound from the HD650's. But I have a really bad interconnect and really just want to get rid of the Rega (sell it). Should I keep it? Output to the Rega for amping of the HD650's and use the D10 as a DAC alone, or can I get more from the D10 amp section, and skip the extra interconnect and circuit board?

 3) Is there any way to output 96000Hz with WASAPI USB through foobar to the D10? I keep having to switch from WASAPI USB output to DS:USB output so that I can play my vinyl rips. Then I get Vista noise because my computer is busy and seems to introduce subtle clicks every now and again. Can I get foobar to automatically switch when it reads a 96000Hz vs. 44100Hz track?

 Finally, I love this little amp/dac! I love it with the Westone 3's. I can hardly believe the sound out of the IEM's. It easily rivals the HD650's, without some of the soundstage that the circumaurals seem to reproduce. 

 Thanks to everyone on this thread for writing about the D10. It has been an enormous help and has provided me with the opportunity to listen to music like never before. I am in love again.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadDoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everybody,

 1) I can barely get the volume out of the HD650's that I would like. Should I roll Opamps or Buffers? or both? I have never rolled, so any detail will help. And I will spend some time reviewing this thread today. The sound from the Westone's is amazing. But I could use a little more power for the HD650's. Where should I start?_

 

Yes, there are different power output with different opamps. I can't remember who posted this before (I think its HiFlight) and here you go:

 --------------------------------------------------------
 Most output power (without buffers)

 AD8397: 320ma
 AD8656: 220ma
 AD8616 150ma
 THS4032 80ma
 LMH6655 80ma
 --------------------------------------------------------

 Rolling the opamp is not difficult. I basically unscrewed the front plate and pull the circuit board out. I only need to get it half way out. You will see three chips on sockets. The top one is the opamp and the bottom two that sit side-by-side are the buffers. Make sure you ground yourself before you do it. You can see the previous page while I asked about these questions and the answer I received.


----------



## LeeSC

Thanks HiFlight and Larry.

 I find the AD8599 has a wide soundstage. Before, I tried to ignore the thin mid with Edition 9 with stock setup, but it just bordered me so much that I had to stop. With the AD8599 rolled in, the entire experience just changed. The music (classical) came out quite nicely and was enjoyable. I went back to those albums that I tried earlier, they were much better now. I find everything is slightly on the brighter side and not as realistic.

 I have just rolled in the AD8066 and find it much better. I will try it with my Edition 9 tonight at home. I like to do the rolling at my work place since there is a static controlled environment setup here.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks HiFlight and Larry.

 I find the AD8599 has a wide soundstage. Before, I tried to ignore the thin mid with Edition 9 with stock setup, but it just bordered me so much that I had to stop. With the AD8599 rolled in, the entire experience just changed. The music (classical) came out quite nicely and was enjoyable. I went back to those albums that I tried earlier, they were much better now. I find everything is slightly on the brighter side and not as realistic.

 I have just rolled in the AD8066 and find it much better. I will try it with my Edition 9 tonight at home. I like to do the rolling at my work place since there is a static controlled environment setup here._

 

yes, the AD8066 is very nice, what buffers are you using?? goes well with 8656. for clasical I think OPA2228 would be great as would OPA2111 (both have very sweet highs and large soundstage.

 and about the static, its time for me to start taking precautions again, its getting cold and dry here in brisbane as a change from hot and humid when I dont need to bother


----------



## HeadDoc

Thanks, 

 Rolled in the AD8656 and now get the volume that I wanted. Are the two circuit boards that lack chips the bypasses that I keep hearing about? They came with the other Ibasso kit. I read that the AD8656 sounds good with bypassed buffers and would like to try that too.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, the AD8066 is very nice, what buffers are you using?? goes well with 8656. for clasical I think OPA2228 would be great as would OPA2111 (both have very sweet highs and large soundstage.

 and about the static, its time for me to start taking precautions again, its getting cold and dry here in brisbane as a change from hot and humid when I dont need to bother_

 

I have AD8066 with stock buffer (don't really know what that is, I should have take note of it when I had the circuit board out). So far, I am really enjoying the AD8066 with my UE Triple-fi 10 at work here. Is OPA2228 better than AD8066? I do have it but do not have plan to roll it in since the AD8066 is sounding so good. I do not have any other buffers other than the stock one and whatever comes with the D10 in the kit.

 Thanks about the warning on static. That is why I only do it at work here were I know I am going to be fine.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadDoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, 

 Rolled in the AD8656 and now get the volume that I wanted. Are the two circuit boards that lack chips the bypasses that I keep hearing about? They came with the other Ibasso kit. I read that the AD8656 sounds good with bypassed buffers and would like to try that too._

 

yeah the ones that have nothing but a tiny little chip (dummy) are the bypassed buffers, they are simply a place-holder that provide no extra current. if you want more current, then bypassed buffers are not for you. some of the higher current op-amps will give a reasonable amount of drive, but still not the amount a buffered output will give.

 so headDoc, unless you are using a high current op-amp in the amp position, I wouldnt bother with the bypassed buffers as you have expressed a preference for higher power.

 LeeSC: the stock buffers vary from unit to unit it seems, but they are usually either 4032 or LMH6643.

 as for the OPA2228 vs 8066 yes I prefer it, the 8066 is very nice, but the OPA2228 is more to my preference. I tend to like the burr brown opamps to the analogue devices ones, perhaps the topkit will change my mind on that, but for the moment OPA2111 and OPA2228 with 8656 are the 2 for me. I do enjoy 8066 and LMH4032 too, they would be my top 4 out of the ones I have currently. not all opamps have enough current to use the bypassed buffers with, the circuit needs a certain amount to remain stable.

 as for the static thing. yes dry environments (less humid) are much more prone to static in the air. So are air-conditioned offices, that would be a good reason for your work to be controlled in this way. they probably use a specialized air-conditioning system to keep a certain amount of moisture in the air. also in dry conditions wearing polyester is a bad idea if playing with the D10 or other electronics


----------



## LeeSC

I am glad to see the 8656 included in my D10 rolling kit! I do have OPA2228 and I will give them a try later after I hear this current setting with my Edition 9.


----------



## HeadDoc

Thanks,

 So, I guess I can roll the stuff that came in the kit, but I gotta say, I am listening to Norah Jones right now through the HD650's and I don't think I need to do a darn thing. I had no idea what I was missing! Eagles Hotel California blew me away. I am very pleased. The Westone 3's may be a bit warm and Bassy with the AD8656 but that's not so bad. 

 Thanks so much for helping me get here. All that's left is to enjoy the music.


----------



## HiFlight

Note...The THS4032 is NOT included by iBasso, but is a very good opamp. The stock buffers are the AD8532. Also included are the LMH6643 and AD8656 both of which work well as buffers. The AD8532 has a somewhat higher noise figure than the others.

 Ron

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah the ones that have nothing but a tiny little chip (dummy) are the bypassed buffers, they are simply a place-holder that provide no extra current. if you want more current, then bypassed buffers are not for you. some of the higher current op-amps will give a reasonable amount of drive, but still not the amount a buffered output will give.

 so headDoc, unless you are using a high current op-amp in the amp position, I wouldnt bother with the bypassed buffers as you have expressed a preference for higher power.

 LeeSC: the stock buffers vary from unit to unit it seems, but they are usually either 4032 or LMH6643.

 as for the OPA2228 vs 8066 yes I prefer it, the 8066 is very nice, but the OPA2228 is more to my preference. I tend to like the burr brown opamps to the analogue devices ones, perhaps the topkit will change my mind on that, but for the moment OPA2111 and OPA2228 with 8656 are the 2 for me. I do enjoy 8066 and LMH4032 too, they would be my top 4 out of the ones I have currently. not all opamps have enough current to use the bypassed buffers with, the circuit needs a certain amount to remain stable.

 as for the static thing. yes dry environments (less humid) are much more prone to static in the air. So are air-conditioned offices, that would be a good reason for your work to be controlled in this way. they probably use a specialized air-conditioning system to keep a certain amount of moisture in the air. also in dry conditions wearing polyester is a bad idea if playing with the D10 or other electronics_


----------



## qusp

you are quite correct, but they included different buffers to what is listed on their site. cant remember the *8532 *is the buffers I got not 4032, along with 8656 I remembered the suffix wrong


----------



## LeeSC

Wow, AD8066 with stock buffer and Edition 9 sounds so good. The sound is well balanced. Compare that to AD8599, the high is not as bright (I actually find AD8599's high a touch too bright), and nicer bass. I am not trying to say the AD8599 is bad, but for my case for what I am trying to pair it with and the type of music I am listening to, the AD8066 is a better choice. I will give OPA2228/8656 a try some time, but I am in no rush. 

 Larry, I am keeping it.  Just can't take it off now.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadDoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everybody,

 -snip -

 1) I can barely get the volume out of the HD650's that I would like. Should I roll Opamps or Buffers? or both? I have never rolled, so any detail will help. And I will spend some time reviewing this thread today. The sound from the Westone's is amazing. But I could use a little more power for the HD650's. Where should I start?
 -snip-_

 

iBasso told me that the default buffer, the AD 8532 is 250ma, which should be pretty dang powerful


----------



## clasam

With all this talk bout different opamp combos, I'm surprised there's no love for the LTC6241HV w/lmh6643 buffers.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With all this talk bout different opamp combos, I'm surprised there's no love for the LTC6241HV w/lmh6643 buffers._

 

Thanks for mentioning this pair again...It is often overlooked, but is a fine sounding combo. IMO, the LMH6655 takes it even a notch higher. That was the Topkit for the D2 Viper.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, AD8066 with stock buffer and Edition 9 sounds so good. The sound is well balanced. Compare that to AD8599, the high is not as bright (I actually find AD8599's high a touch too bright), and nicer bass. I am not trying to say the AD8599 is bad, but for my case for what I am trying to pair it with and the type of music I am listening to, the AD8066 is a better choice. I will give OPA2228/8656 a try some time, but I am in no rush. 

 Larry, I am keeping it.  Just can't take it off now._

 

I am very happy that is working out for you. I did list the AD8066 as one opamp to try with the Edition 9, and mentioned the AD8599 could be bright. Earlier in this thread I mentioned the AD8599 and AD8066 were good for the Senn IE8 as well, but the AD8599 was too bright for my Westone ES3X and RS-1. I knew the D10 would be a better match for the Edition 9 than the Predator due to the opamp rolling capability, and I'm glad I talked you into it.

 The OPA2228 is not as bright as the AD8599, but it is brighter than stock and works better with the IE8 than stock. So, if you like the AD8066 you will likely enjoy the OPA2228 as well. I have the AD8065 single channel version of the 8066 in my Practical Devices XM5 and it doesn't sound anything like the D10 with the 8066, likely due to the different buffers in each amp (BUF634 in XM5). The AD8066 was one I had left over from my iBasso D1 days, which sounded good in that amp as well. The OPA2350 will likely have too much bass for you with Edition 9.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With all this talk bout different opamp combos, I'm surprised there's no love for the LTC6241HV w/lmh6643 buffers._

 

Up until I got the OPA2228 I was using the LTC6241HV with the stock buffers. 

 It was one of those compromise combos like the OPA2228 that could work well with both my IE8 and ES3X, or both my HD600 and RS-1. But it wasn't the best with any of them. Other combos were perfect for the IE8 but too thin for the ES3X (AD8599 or AD8066), or perfect for the ES3X/W3 and RS-1 but too bassy with the IE8 (stock or OPA2350).


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for mentioning this pair again...It is often overlooked, but is a fine sounding combo. IMO, the LMH6655 takes it even a notch higher. That was the Topkit for the D2 Viper._

 

What does the LMH6655 do better than the 6643?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What does the LMH6655 do better than the 6643?_

 

I feel that the LMH6655 renders subtle details more accurately. It is "faster" than 6643 with a higher slew rate and a much lower noise figure. 

 Squarewave response on the 6655 is nearly perfect. This equates, I believe, to greater accuracy of complex harmonics and overtones than I hear in the 6643.


----------



## wolfen68

What's up with ibasso's website? I've tried 4 or 5 times to bring it up over the last two weeks with no luck.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's up with ibasso's website? I've tried 4 or 5 times to bring it up over the last two weeks with no luck._

 

I just tried and it came up fine:

iBasso

 Maybe the server was down.

 Regards,
 -HK sends


----------



## rhw

No problem from here?

iBasso - Products

 but many stuff
_out of stock_ or _sold out_


----------



## qusp

yeah they certainly could use someone to maintain their site, if they could keep it as efficiently updated as they are at producing amps then would be perfect. any of you guys had a problem with the ring that surround the aux in/HP out coming out?? mine came out on my LOD today; was pretty easy to put back in, but not happy with that build; seems a bit flimsy to only have friction holding it there and apparently not very much friction


----------



## -=Germania=-

I have to admit that I really want to try out one of these D10. 

 Is there anyone with a D10 interested in trying out a P-51? 

 I also have my active ground Millett around that I could do a straight trade for. It has over $300 in parts alone (what I paid, inc. tubes) and have many tubes (now worth over $100 considering that many places are charging 8-12 a tube).

 Maybe some sort of temporary exchange can happen with the P-51. 

 Just PM me.


----------



## qusp

I dont like your chances; most people with D10 are using it specifically as dac and mostly with optical out of iriver, so P-51 is not really much use. although one of the guys like HA or jamato who have many options may help you out. cant say i've seen anyone who is unhappy with their purchase. if I were in the US I might consider it (temporary swap) as I have a couple of nice rigs to choose from, but the expense and distance make it problematic.


----------



## jamato8

New optical cable that puts mini in mini. These are difficult to make but will keep the cable to the same outline of the D10 and iRiver so it will not protrude. The cost will be $55.00. There is some flex to the cable so it is very adaptable. This Is the Miniop cable (my own name :^).

 Having a large image like this makes it look odd, since it is really small. Well I have one coming and will photograph it in use on the D10 and iRiver H140.


----------



## PeterDLai

.


----------



## jamato8

No, the Miniop is bent that way. :^)


----------



## jamato8

This is an example of the new Miniop with the right angle adapters on the D10 and H120.


----------



## mrarroyo

That is beautiful work there Jamato8!


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is beautiful work there Jamato8!_

 

Yes, Joseph did a great job. With all the regular work they do I am surprised a company would take the time to do these very custom cables.


----------



## rebski

Quote:


 That is beautiful work there Jamato8! 
 

Thank you, it is actually my rig! It is an H140 too, not H120.

 Sysconcept is sending me a slightly longer one - 4.6cm instead of 4.2cm tip to tip. This should be a slightly more 'comfortable' fit.

 I shall post a pic once it arrives, unless of course Jamato8 beats me to it again.

 Also since this is my first post let me say Hi and to thank and credit this Thread for the information needed to encourage my purchase of the iBasso. 

 And also, of course, for directing me to the estimable Mr Jospeh Kmiec of Sysconcept.

 Thanks to everyone for the input and advice. At the moment I feel like I am running to catch up but I am off to a good start.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PeterDLai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_._

 

I completely agree!


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I completely agree!_

 

me too!!


----------



## GreatDane

Does anyone know about the availability of the D 10? The site currently states:

_The D10 is temporarily out of stock.

 We are short of components to build the D10 at this moment.. The D10 will available again in Mid May._


----------



## danlib1

I ordered mine 2 weeks ago, got it in a little over a week. Send them an email- that's what I did.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *danlib1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered mine 2 weeks ago, got it in a little over a week. Send them an email- that's what I did._

 

Thanks for your input.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know about the availability of the D 10? The site currently states:

The D10 is temporarily out of stock.

 We are short of components to build the D10 at this moment.. The D10 will available again in Mid May._

 

It will be available in the middle of may. A couple of the premium capacitors they use ran out.


----------



## DoYouRight

what do people mean by changing caps aka blackgates? should i do this?


----------



## dazzer1975

Regarding the miniop, it is worth noting that those who use the iriver remote control along with their sysconcept cables wont be able to continue using them with this smaller opt cable.

 It is apparent with the pics but for those who like to use the remote, be aware of that.


----------



## nc8000

I have to admit that while it is amazing that it can be made that small I prefer the look of the small U cable instead. It is less bulky than the bigish ra adaptors, stays well within the confines of the D10+iRiver and is only slightly longer than using ra's (and definately no longer than using ra's with spacers in order to still accomodate the remote).


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to admit that while it is amazing that it can be made that small I prefer the look of the small U cable instead. It is less bulky than the bigish ra adaptors, stays well within the confines of the D10+iRiver and is only slightly longer than using ra's (and definately no longer than using ra's with spacers in order to still accomodate the remote)._

 

I agree. IMO, the u-cable would also have less chance to "torque" the jacks sideways than the large (and stiff) RA adapters.

 What would be really nice is if someone could find (or build) an optical cable with the right angles built right in (like a mini to mini interconnect).


----------



## iriverdude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to admit that while it is amazing that it can be made that small I prefer the look of the small U cable instead. It is less bulky than the bigish ra adaptors, stays well within the confines of the D10+iRiver and is only slightly longer than using ra's (and definately no longer than using ra's with spacers in order to still accomodate the remote).





_

 

Show that to a Apple now and they roll around in laughter.

  Quote:


 What would be really nice is if someone could find (or build) an optical cable with the right angles built right in (like a mini to mini interconnect). 
 

Actually would be even better if you could use a cable between the two, say each case as a slot, and you pass a data cable between them.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is an example of the new Miniop with the right angle adapters on the D10 and H120._

 

Have you tried this? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_Cut and glew two adapters together - maybe add some new fiber glass_.


----------



## qusp

that ^^ is totally not doable, they need a cable to join them together, by themselves they will do nothing.. I too prefer both my 2 cables to that. I use the remote ALL THE TIME, so its definitely a no go for me and I see no point in blowing nearly 3 times the money on a less functional (to me) configuration. and as nc8000 says, its actually not even really smaller. all the same I really dig that the guys at sysconcept are wiling to take it to the limit on custom orders, and definitely shows how good they are.


----------



## smallcaps

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried this? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








Cut and glew two adapters together - maybe add some new fiber glass._

 

that really would be perfect. can this actually be made? seems like it would be just to cramped to build by hand, but i have no idea what the build process is like for the cables. i would buy one in a second...


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried this? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








Cut and glew two adapters together - maybe add some new fiber glass._

 

Being a hardcore DIYer myself, I'd say this will work. But there will be a hell of task to cut the RA Toslink adapter and make it look good. Perhaps a quick work with jeweller saw will do the trick and use exacto knife - sandpaper to smoothen the edge. Then just cut/rip apart an unused toslink cable and gut out the core plastic (yes they are made of plastic). Cut them to length and use superglue to sandwich it between the trimmed RAs.

 Sounds dodgy but doable


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Being a hardcore DIYer myself, I'd say this will work. But there will be a hell of task to cut the RA Toslink adapter and make it look good. Perhaps a quick work with jeweller saw will do the trick and use exacto knife - sandpaper to smoothen the edge. Then just cut/rip apart an unused toslink cable and gut out the core plastic (yes they are made of plastic). Cut them to length and use superglue to sandwich it between the trimmed RAs.

 Sounds dodgy but doable_

 

Unless those plugs stand proud of the optical jack enough, based on the picture, you will have interference from the coax plug. Is the plastic on the adapter thick enough to cut a groove to fit around the coax plug?

 Looks interesting...

 -HK sends


----------



## smallcaps

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Being a hardcore DIYer myself, I'd say this will work. But there will be a hell of task to cut the RA Toslink adapter and make it look good. Perhaps a quick work with jeweller saw will do the trick and use exacto knife - sandpaper to smoothen the edge. Then just cut/rip apart an unused toslink cable and gut out the core plastic (yes they are made of plastic). Cut them to length and use superglue to sandwich it between the trimmed RAs.

 Sounds dodgy but doable_

 

i bought the pair of PK1's you ultramodded and my girlfriend loves them! was your work that turned her into a noobie audiophile and convinced her to toss out her ipod buds. if you can get this to work i will be the first one to buy. let me know!


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smallcaps* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i bought the pair of PK1's you ultramodded and my girlfriend loves them! was your work that turned her into a noobie audiophile and convinced her to toss out her ipod buds. if you can get this to work i will be the first one to buy. let me know!_

 

LOL I feel so sinful now....

 No buddy, I have decided to abandon the iRiver H120 + DAC path and returned to modded iPods domain. Since becoming a devout STAX user, I needed my dap to be super slim and simple because the bulk of my heavily modded STAX SRM-001 takes 90% of the entire rig setup. Furthermore the SRM-001 have successfully dampened my desire to listen to anything else.

 But I am rig-less now and once I have the $$ again I will be building myself a DIYmodded iPod Touch 1G + STAX SR-001.

 Cheers.


----------



## -=Germania=-

EFN - do you mind telling me where you can find the DIY mod for iPod touch? 

 I have one and would like to improve the iPod as much as is possible.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EFN - do you mind telling me where you can find the DIY mod for iPod touch? 

 I have one and would like to improve the iPod as much as is possible._

 

No probs.

 I posted about the mod here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/app...ml#post5643577

 I can guarantee you will LOVE it. But it is officially the hardest mod to pull off - you must steel your resolve to rip your iPod Touch under the knife


----------



## smallcaps

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL I feel so sinful now....

 No buddy, I have decided to abandon the iRiver H120 + DAC path and returned to modded iPods domain. Since becoming a devout STAX user, I needed my dap to be super slim and simple because the bulk of my heavily modded STAX SRM-001 takes 90% of the entire rig setup. Furthermore the SRM-001 have successfully dampened my desire to listen to anything else.

 But I am rig-less now and once I have the $$ again I will be building myself a DIYmodded iPod Touch 1G + STAX SR-001.

 Cheers._

 

always wanted to listen to a stax setup and good to know you enjoy it and have curbed the audiophile bloodlust. just got my iriver/d10 setup and i am feeling the same way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 one day though the iriver will call you back...


----------



## -=Germania=-

Actually, Cnet pointed out that the metal sheet can be removed by simply messing with the clips.

 What guage of wire did you use? 

 As of right now, I only have 28AWG UPOCC solid core in silver, 30AWG SPC, 26AWG solid core UPOCC copper in ultrathin teflon, 28AWG SPC, and then 24AWG of silver and copper in UPOCC. I assume that 24 Solid core is way too big.


----------



## EFN

*-=Germania=-:*
 Clips? what clips LOL. I spent 2 hours tinkering with the sheet and found no access other than to rip it apart with a wicked wire plier.

 In those pics I use a 0.3mm 5N Pure Silver (solid core) - my all time favorite. I dunno how many gauge those are because everything is metric here. Anything bigger will be utterly cumbersome and impractical.

*smallcaps:*
 Going back to iRiver? I may if iBasso can make a super thin D10 DAC only.


----------



## smallcaps

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Going back to iRiver? I may if iBasso can make a super thin D10 DAC only._

 

Itching for that DAC only D10, eh EFN? anymore news about that?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smallcaps* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Itching for that DAC only D10, eh EFN? anymore news about that?_

 

I would only "itch" if iBasso makes them really thin. We shall see in a month or two


----------



## viator36

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Being a hardcore DIYer myself, I'd say this will work. But there will be a hell of task to cut the RA Toslink adapter and make it look good. Perhaps a quick work with jeweller saw will do the trick and use exacto knife - sandpaper to smoothen the edge. Then just cut/rip apart an unused toslink cable and gut out the core plastic (yes they are made of plastic). Cut them to length and use superglue to sandwich it between the trimmed RAs.

 Sounds dodgy but doable_

 

And it does work. This is what I made from two connectors. A bit on the crude side but sturdy and works perfectly. I've been using it for a couple of months now.

Attachment 16633

 From tip to tip it's about 28mm. If you use some kind of protective case on both the H120 and iBasso D10 their sides will line up nicely with this tip to tip length. This length should also work if you use velcro to hold the H120 and D10 together. Just measure the exact distance from the center of the H120/H140 connector to that of the D10 the way you hold/carry them together. 

 Next picture shows the signal is coming through the IC.

Attachment 16634

 Below is my H120 and D10 connected with the IC. A minor issue I found is the lower right side of the connector on the D10 will rub against the upper left side of the mini usb connector when you plug the usb in. I just filed off a little bit of the usb's plastic part and it works fine.

Attachment 16635

 It's actually much easier than you would think. Takes just a few hours. I don't need to make it look like a nicely finished product and don't really have the tools. If it works and lasts that's good enough for me.


----------



## smallcaps

^ very nice work!


----------



## HK_sends

Really Nice!

 -HK sends


----------



## woof37

Good job, that's nice.


----------



## jamato8

So optically, how did you mate the two surfaces?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viator36* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And it does work. This is what I made from two connectors. A bit on the crude side but sturdy and works perfectly. I've been using it for a couple of months now.

Attachment 16633
_

 

Sweet! I wish I had one but I could never make one.


----------



## clasam

Hey HI Flight/Ron, do you think you could do me a monumental favor and do a mini comparison regarding some buffers you have used (LMH6655, EL8201, LMH6643)?

 Thank ya

 Jon


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So optically, how did you mate the two surfaces?_

 

I reckon they need to be aligned perfectly straight. The last time I did my own optical IC, Super Glue did the holding.


 And viator36, superb DIY work there


----------



## qusp

^^ I stand corrected. yeah what did you use for the interface?? a small amount of fibre or something else? or nothing, do they mate so closely that you dont need anything?


----------



## qusp

^^ I stand corrected. yeah what did you use for the interface?? a small amount of fibre or something else? or nothing, do they mate so closely that you dont need anything?

 its interesting as the parts are only a few dollars and I dont really use the RA that much, so wouldnt really miss them if I stuffed up. I use the U cable most of the time


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey HI Flight/Ron, do you think you could do me a monumental favor and do a mini comparison regarding some buffers you have used (LMH6655, EL8201, LMH6643)?

 Thank ya

 Jon_

 

Detail: 6655, 8201, 6643
 Warmth: 6643, 8201, 6655
 Overall compatibility: 8201, 6655, 6643
 Power: 6655, 6643, 8201
 Slew rate: 6655&8201, 6643
 Square wave response: 6655, 8201, 6643


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Detail: 6655, 8201, 6643
 Warmth: 6643, 8201, 6655
 Overall compatibility: 8201, 6655, 6643
 Power: 6655, 6643, 8201
 Slew rate: 6655&8201, 6643
 Square wave response: 6655, 8201, 6643_

 

Great, thanks!

 When you say compatibility, do you mean they sound good with a wider range of opamps?


----------



## qusp

looks like I have to get one more 6655 off you ron. seems to be rated highest in everything, but still below 8616??


----------



## clasam

Trying the THS4032 & lmh6643 now. Very transparent, neutral, quick, punchy and balanced


----------



## qusp

yeah the THS4032 is definitely a good'n


----------



## smallcaps

been using HiFlight's topkit for about 25 hours now total listening time. compared to stock opamps i can hear a major change in the nature of the sound coming from my ie8's. the first album i listened to was Deltron 3030. with the stock opamps the album sounds warm, very smooth on the bottom end with an expansive soundstage but a bit blurry between the registers and instrument separation was good but not as good as the topkit. the stock opamps are very musical tho and the entire album is quite lush and laidback to listen to.

 with the topkit the entire sound signature is more controlled. nothing was exaggerated at all. the soundstage is slightly narrower to my ears, but instrument separation is very good and it generally sounds more snappy. compared to the stock opamps its very analytical and reveals poorly chosen samples within some of the Deltron tracks. i was pretty shocked at first, noticing these discrepancies for the first time. on the stock opamps these poorly chosen samples still sound good, as i feel the stock config treats poorly encoded/engineered tracks better. i think the topkit is very revealing with some tracks and because of its accuracy i am still getting accustomed to its analytical sound. on the whole i like it very much but will experiment a bit more with opamps while keeping the topkit buffers in place. 

 i couldn't decide wether i liked the sound of the hd600's or hd650's better when i heard them back to back and between the stock and topkit opamp kits i am faced with the same dilemma... i love them both!


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great, thanks!

 When you say compatibility, do you mean they sound good with a wider range of opamps?_

 

Yes, that is what I meant.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_looks like I have to get one more 6655 off you ron. seems to be rated highest in everything, but still below 8616??_

 

The AD8616 sounded best with the AD743 of all the buffers I tried. It doesn't sound the best with everything. Some opamps need buffers more than others, and some are sort of picky about which ones they sound best with. 

 The 6655 is one of the more revealing buffers. The LMH6643 and EL8201 are less analytical and can help with some less than sterling recordings or lower bitrate rips. 

 Buffers mainly act as an impedance matcher and as such, can have varying effects on SQ.


----------



## viator36

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So optically, how did you mate the two surfaces?_

 

What makes it easy to make this IC is that the entire signal pathway is not a continuous fiber optic cable connecting from the mini end all the way to the toslink end. It actually consists of two parts. Behind the mini connector end is a short flexible optical cable about the width of the mini connector stem which ends in a copper tip just like the mini tip. On the toslink end behind the end of the connector there's a short tip of copper tube filled with the same clear plastic/glassy material. These two ends face (touch?) each other and are held in place by a copper tube around them which is about 10mm in length.

 The adapters' outer rubbery layer is about 1mm thick on the 3 sides and a little thicker on the top side due to its curve. Beneath the outer layer the material is more rigid but not really hard. This material fills all the space from the outer layer to the fiber optic cable, the copper tube and the space behind the female toslink connector. I used my swiss army knife's metal saw blade to cut it and it's pretty easy to do if you hold the adapter in a vice.

 I want to point out one thing and that is from where I cut the two adapters open the copper tip at the end of the optic cable coming from the male end will be a few minimeters longer than the cut line. So when you cut it be careful not to cut from one side all the way to the other because you will damage the optic cable and you don't want to do that. Instead cut the adapter toward the center from all 4 sides and don't go too fast. Also when you sand and smooth the cut surface try to keep the cable away from the side you work on.

 The fact that the end of the optic cable sticks out a few minimeters beyond the cut surface for each adapter is not a problem in putting the two parts together. After you clean out the material around the cable there is some room in the elbow of the adapters that allow you to push the flexible cable back in. In other words you can push each tip back so that the tip will be flush to the cut line of the adapter.

 I salvaged a small copper tube that holds the two tips in an adapter and used it to hold the two ends of the cables from the two cutoff adapters to each other to align them. You have to connect/align the two ends together this way to make it work. You slide the tube over the cable tip of one cutoff adapter, glue both the cut surfaces and slide the other adapter's cable tip inside the tube and press the glued surfaces together. If you use superglue the hardest part here is you have only a couple of seconds to try to make the mini and toslink tips align perfectly along their plane and make the tips parallel to each other and the adapters' cut surfaces and sides aligned perfectly. If you use epoxy then you have plenty of time to get them aligned right.

 For testing I used electrician's tape to hold the two parts together to make sure it's working before gluing them together.

 Hope it helps and good luck if you want to give it a try.


----------



## qusp

great little tute there mate; really nice detail. i'm a little lost with the imagery, but i'm sure it will become more clear once I have them open. Sounds like they are almost made for this mod. I had a feeling there wouldnt be any extra fibre needed. nice one


----------



## viator36

QUOTE=qusp;5658055]great little tute there mate; really nice detail. i'm a little lost with the imagery, but i'm sure it will become more clear once I have them open. Sounds like they are almost made for this mod. I had a feeling there wouldnt be any extra fibre needed. nice one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/QUOTE]

 I made this drawing based on memory to show what's inside the mini adapter. I am terrible at drawing but hope it helps. The inside of the toslink adapter's male side is the same.

Attachment 16676


----------



## jamato8

Great directions, thank you for taking the time. Now to get started. :^)


----------



## rebski

Quote:


 I made this drawing based on memory to show what's inside the mini adapter. I am terrible at drawing but hope it helps. The inside of the toslink adapter's male side is the same. 
 

Thanks for that, it helps a great deal.

 This something that I intend to try and the more information the better.

 Personally speaking, I think you were quite inspired to conceive the project in the first instance.


----------



## smallcaps

question: has anyone tried the LME49720HA / LM4562HA opamp in the d10? does it work?

 cheers

 edit: also curious about the Burson Audio discrete opamps. thanks


----------



## viator36

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rebski* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that, it helps a great deal.

 This something that I intend to try and the more information the better.

 Personally speaking, I think you were quite inspired to conceive the project in the first instance._

 

After two of my IC's broke (not meaning to take anything away from Joseph for his product quality, maybe just my luck) I was looking for something more sturdy and the adapters with their bulky housing looked right. So I ordered a couple and cut one open just to see what it's like inside. I was prepared to see it destroyed and throw it away. Guess I got a lucky break.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viator36* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After two of my IC's broke (not meaning to take anything away from Joseph for his product quality, maybe just my luck) I was looking for something more sturdy and the adapters with their bulky housing looked right. So I ordered a couple and cut one open just to see what it's like inside. I was prepared to see it destroyed and throw it away. *Guess I got a lucky break.*_

 

too right you did, going by that pic (thanks BTW) it truly is pretty much made for this mod. I had thought at worst I would have to use one of those female to female tiny little adapters, but this is perfect. I havent had any problems with my cables, but it'll be fun anyway,. I love tinkering


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smallcaps* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_question: has anyone tried the LME49720HA / LM4562HA opamp in the d10? does it work?

 cheers

 edit: also curious about the Burson Audio discrete opamps. thanks_

 

I've used the 4562...works fine.


----------



## smallcaps

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've used the 4562...works fine._

 

cool thanks for that. any reflections?


----------



## jamato8

Great, the optical adapter is pretty easy to make. The inside is hollow so the actual optical cable is free from the sides once you cut the plastic (thick) shell away. The collar (brass) from one of the sections can be worked loose and then used to perfectly align the two optical cable sections that butt up against each other. Works Great. 

 There is room for the remote and it doesn't get in the way of the USB when I am charging the D10. Too cool. 

 I did notice that the surfaces of the optical cable that would have had the normal cable plugged into them, had small scratches so I buffed them off with the special micron polishing wet and dry used for this purpose and got them back to a mirror finish. 

 Thanks for the investigation on this and great ingenuity!


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smallcaps* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_cool thanks for that. any reflections?_

 

I'll have to listen again...I don't remember much, which means I didn't love it. Perhaps my opinion will change. I'll get back to you in about 48 hours...


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I did notice that the surfaces of the optical cable that would have had the normal cable plugged into them, had small scratches so I buffed them off with the special micron polishing wet and dry used for this purpose and got them back to a mirror finish. 
_

 


 Did you scratch the surface while performing this mod or was the scratch already there?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smallcaps* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_question: has anyone tried the LME49720HA / LM4562HA opamp in the d10? does it work?

 cheers

 edit: also curious about the Burson Audio discrete opamps. thanks_

 

The LME49720/LM4562 do not work in the D10. Not sure about the discrete opamps, but there is not much working space in the D10.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you scratch the surface while performing this mod or was the scratch already there?_

 

They were already there. The work, if you are in the right distance, will not touch the end of the internal optical cable. They weren't bad but I could see them with my 10X loop. I was glad I could polish them up so that they meet with very good surfaces.


----------



## dazzer1975

Thanks for that Jamato, good info. Is a tad worrying though if the connectors come pre-scratched.

 Worth looking out for that.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LME49720/LM4562 do not work in the D10. Not sure about the discrete opamps, but there is not much working space in the D10._

 

Yeah, I just checked the LM4562, and got big time clipping...I must have been thinking about a different opamp that works fine; I didn't write down any notes at that time, so I can't be sure what it is...my bad.

 On another note, the LM6172 doesn't work either. Now THAT, I wrote down.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Trying the THS4032 & lmh6643 now. Very transparent, neutral, quick, punchy and balanced_

 

I ended up not liking this combo as much when I did more extensive listening. It didn't have the tight bass or sweet high end of the LTC6241HV/LMH6643 combo.

 So I'm back to another of my favorites, the AD8599/AD8656 buffers


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ended up not liking this combo as much when I did more extensive listening. It didn't have the tight bass or sweet high end of the LTC6241HV/LMH6643 combo.

 So I'm back to another of my favorites, the AD8599/AD8656 buffers_

 

I only liked the AD8599/AD8656 combo with my Senn IE8 and HD600 or Edition 9.


----------



## HiFlight

It has been my experience that the THS4032 sounds best with bypassed buffers, regardless of which amp I have used it in. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ended up not liking this combo as much when I did more extensive listening. It didn't have the tight bass or sweet high end of the LTC6241HV/LMH6643 combo.

 So I'm back to another of my favorites, the AD8599/AD8656 buffers_


----------



## dazzer1975

why for sale?

 whats the story?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It has been my experience that the THS4032 sounds best with bypassed buffers, regardless of which amp I have used it in._

 

I think the AD8656 is another one that sounds best with bypassed buffers.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Horse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I loved the OPA2350 when I tried it inside a DAC. It's a fantastic opamp for voltages up to 6V. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

That one works well with the AD8616 as buffers.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the AD8656 is another one that sounds best with bypassed buffers.


 That one works well with the AD8616 as buffers._

 

I agree both of Larry's observations; different opamps prefer different buffers, or none at all.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Horse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But what is the supply voltage of the opamp and buffers inside the D10? I remember that the THS4032 clipped on musical peaks inside my DAC with a 9V supply voltage. I had to increase it to 12V._

 

It's not so much the opamp, but rather the supply voltage of the amp. If you input a higher signal voltage than is able to be supplied by the amps power supply, it will clip. If an opamp can swing rail-to-rail, it will be able to use all of the input voltage applied to it, up to the supply voltage before clipping occurs. Not all opamps are able to do that. Momentary transients can easily exceed the supply voltage and the amplifiers headroom capability, even if the average listening level is not at the clipping level. 

 If clipping occurs in the D10, try reducing the input signal a bit to eliminate the clipping, then select high gain. That will get you another 3 db of gain.

 Clearly, the THS4032, as well as many other opamps will clip earlier at a supply voltage of 5v than they will at higher voltages.


----------



## qusp

jamato: you didnt happen to take note of how far in you made the cut did you?? or did you just measure where it would be if you joinde them together whilke the iriver and D10 are mated??


----------



## jamato8

I just lined them up and used a pencil to mark one side of each right angle adapter and then cut away. Once made there isn't much that will go wrong with these. They are strong, close to the back side of the D10 and iriver and it works great. I used super glue and they are aligned very well. I used a file to finish the ends of each adapter.


----------



## qusp

so you cut at basically the same part of both?? so you removed the same amount of material from each or more from the mini side??

 so the micron wet and dry isnt needed to remove any burs?? or you think that was unusual that you needed to polish them. I thought the cable sysconcept used was already polished.

 thanks again; sounds fairly easy and the parts are cheap enough. what did you use for the cut?? i'm not sure I have anything suitably small; I suppose I could just use a stanley knife. or a full size hacksaw LOL. I dont have any cutting attachments on my dremel as yet.


----------



## viator36

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jamato: you didnt happen to take note of how far in you made the cut did you?? or did you just measure where it would be if you joinde them together whilke the iriver and D10 are mated??_

 


 qusp: Not answering for jamato but want to give you the measurements I got. With the two pieces joined together the total length from edge to edge is 42mm. So that's 21mm each. As I mentioned my piece from tip to tip is 28mm. That would mean from tip center spot to joint surface is 14mm. You must have noticed on top of the adapters (opposite the tip side) there is a small dent. I believe that's the tip's center spot on the back. I used that to measure tip to joint surface line. Of course you add some extra length for joint surface trimming and polishing.


----------



## jamato8

I used a 32 tooth per inch hacksaw, as that is what I have and it worked fine. The micro fine paper was only used for the optical cable but you most likely won't need it. I cut about the same from each adapter. Actually I cut more off of one than the other but not by design but it worked out fine. The length of one is 25mm and the other is 20mm from the cut to the end of the adapter. The 25 could have been a little shorter and still work fine. The plastic is hollow so once you cut all the way around the optical section inside will be free. I used one of the brass tubes to line up both optical sections.

 I may make another one just for the fun of it. I think I would make it about 2 to 3mm shorter overall. Mine is 45mm outside to outside of the right angle adapter.


----------



## qusp

thankyou both of you; bit slow on the uptake today; you answered any query I had; main thing was I couldnt notice whether it was exactly half way along both RA where they were joined; I did wonder if there was a...ermm.. landmark and so there is.. so when I get a spare moment i'll nip down and get myself a small toothed saw or the right attachment for my dremmel


----------



## wolfen68

I knew their *must* be a way to make a small two-ended optical right angle adapter or adapter cable...but I was deterred by sysconcept's claim that they "don't exist". Kudos to all that discovered and reported on their success with this mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The one question I have (that I must have missed in the explanations) is how do you get the toslink plug to cant to the correct angle?

 Also, for the optical purists out there...there is some transmissivity loss through these right angle adapters that is not in the U-Cable approach. It seems that whatever that (very small) loss is would stay pretty much the same after this mod since the brass tube still holds the two ends together in the same way.


----------



## jamato8

The toslink revolves 360 degrees so that presents no problem. On the transmission question, I don't know but it is working well.


----------



## obentou

Sorry to sidetrack the thread, but I'm in a dilemma right now.

 I sort of want to grab the Audio-gd Compass to try, at the cost of selling my iBasso D10 for it. Do you think the DAC of the Compass will live up to the same performance that the D10 can give? I'd appreciate anyone's response!


----------



## jamato8

They are two different animals. The Compass is a home unit with discrete output. Is it better? I don't know. Is it a better portable? I don't think so. :^) I imagine someone who has both can give you a reply. Why not post in the Compass thread and ask there?


----------



## nsx_23

Is anybody using the D10 with an H120 and Sennehiser IE8?

 I'm considering selling off some gear to buy one of these babies. The previous version impressed me when I tested it with my H332.


----------



## smallcaps

i'm using that combo and its great. you definitely will want to opamp roll the d10 to get good synergy for the ie8's. its also recommended that you upgrade the battery as the stock battery of the h120 is pretty weaksause... but you already did that, didn't you?


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is anybody using the D10 with an H120 and Sennehiser IE8?

 I'm considering selling off some gear to buy one of these babies. The previous version impressed me when I tested it with my H332._


----------



## viator36

jamato,

 I have a quick question. The micro fine sandpaper you used what's the highest grit you got? The best I have is 12,000 grit. I don't need it for this mod but if you know where to get higher grit than 12,000 please let me know. Thanks.


----------



## rebski

Quote:


 its also recommended that you upgrade the battery as the stock battery of the h120 is pretty weaksause... but you already did that, didn't you? 
 

Hi smallcaps, just for completeness, could you post your information?

 I am checking out 2200mah options and also I have seen that iPod batteries fit but to reverse the polarity. I wish there were central repositories for this sort of information. 

 I supose there is and it is called misticriver, but here we are on head-fi.


----------



## HiFlight

Some of the batteries listed for the H-1xx iRivers fit without reversing the plug and some do not. I would suggest comparing plugs before installing. As replacing the battery involves completely disassembling the player, I suggest just cutting the battery leads and splicing in the new one. That way, all you need to do is match colors. 

 Here is a link to the tutorial for changing batteries: 

H1xx Internal Battery Replacement - MisticRiverWiki

 Here is a link I used for some batteries for my H120s. IIRC, they had the correct polarity and have held up OK so far. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rebski* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi smallcaps, just for completeness, could you post your information?

 I am checking out 2200mah options and also I have seen that iPod batteries fit but to reverse the polarity. I wish there were central repositories for this sort of information. 

 I supose there is and it is called misticriver, but here we are on head-fi._


----------



## rebski

Thanks for the info and advice, HiFlight

  Quote:


 Here is a link I used for some batteries for my H120s 
 

Link?


----------



## qusp

double post crap


----------



## qusp

the licketty splits (check spelling) store on ebay sells the correct Cameron Sino 2200mah battery for iriver. mines great WAAAAAYYY longer life, even with HD, cant wait till I get the CF card up and running. annoyingly the CF I have working with RB in my DIYMOD will not work with the iriver even in the correct adapter. man those irivers are picky bitches. gonna have to buy another one and sell this one on the forums.


----------



## qusp

here ya go guys, not sure if ron was posting this link but thats the link to the best place to buy authentic Cameron Sino batteries for pretty much any device I got my ipod video 950mah battery there too. that ^^ link is the page for the 2200 iriver H120 battery, of course will work with the H140 as wel. these guys are authorized resellers too, so the 1 year warranty from cameron sino is valid from them. cheap too. AFAIK its the best battery for the iriver. I have heard of a 2300mah, but dont know whether its cameron sino or some other brand. I would get his though as the quality of the product is superb, you just have to look at the packaging finish and the fit of the batteries. of course the run-time is good too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 one thing you might have to check though with the cameron sino iriver batteries is that they are li-pol or Lithium Polymer cells; some countries wont allow them to be imported do to some badly designed and built ones exploding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I had no drama here and maybe they just have to be under a certain rating to be considered safe to fly. all the same, maybe check with *licketysplitauctions* ,_ correct spelling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_ first before purchasing.


----------



## dazzer1975

qusp, so the ipod cf mod isn't as picky on which cf card you use like the irivers? Is that what you meant?

 I had planned cf'ing my irivers but got a 120 drive instead and am currently using that and will look into the ipod for the cf mod instead if they dont have the same issue with regards seemingly only the a-data and pretec working as is the case more or less for the irivers


----------



## smallcaps

batteries for the iriver 3xx series also work in the hxx series. i picked mine up from ebay and the above posts should help you find the right one.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is anybody using the D10 with an H120 and Sennehiser IE8?

 I'm considering selling off some gear to buy one of these babies. The previous version impressed me when I tested it with my H332._

 

It sounds good if you use the AD8066 or AD8599 opamp in the D10 with either AD8656 buffers or stock buffers for more bass. The OPA2228 with AD8656 is good with the IE8 too.


----------



## jetlaged

To obviate any further thread hi-jacking I have posted all relevant links for Hxxx mods and maintenance below, these sites will have all the information required for all relevant mods that can be done to the iriver Hxxx series players.

 This is after all a IBasso D10 thread )

iriver Hard Drive Legacy Devices (H1XX, H3XX, H10/20, E10) - MisticRiver :: For iriver Enthusiasts

Customize Your H1xx or H3xx - MisticRiverWiki

HardDriveReplacement < Main < TWiki

ZIFToATAAdapter < Main < TWiki

CFModGuide < Main < TWiki

IriverFlashing < Main < TWiki

 The iriver Hxx series is a legacy player and everything that can be done has been done to those players over at misticriver and rockbox, some folks have even installed a RTC chip in their H1xx series, this is documented at rockbox under RTC mod.
 the search feature of those respective sites works well.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jetlaged* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To obviate any further thread hi-jacking I have posted all relevant links for Hxxx mods and maintenance below, these sites will have all the information required for all relevant mods that can be done to the iriver Hxxx series players.

 This is after all a IBasso D10 thread )

iriver Hard Drive Legacy Devices (H1XX, H3XX, H10/20, E10) - MisticRiver :: For iriver Enthusiasts

Customize Your H1xx or H3xx - MisticRiverWiki

HardDriveReplacement < Main < TWiki

ZIFToATAAdapter < Main < TWiki

CFModGuide < Main < TWiki

IriverFlashing < Main < TWiki

 The iriver Hxx series is a legacy player and everything that can be done has been done to those players over at misticriver and rockbox, some folks have even installed a RTC chip in their H1xx series, this is documented at rockbox under RTC mod.
 the search feature of those respective sites works well._

 

FWIW, John (Jamato8) has probably done more mods and has more knowledge of the innards of the H120/140 than anyone I know.


----------



## nc8000

Also EFN (I think it was) has done some interesting cap mods on the H1xx models


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_qusp, so the ipod cf mod isn't as picky on which cf card you use like the irivers? Is that what you meant?

 I had planned cf'ing my irivers but got a 120 drive instead and am currently using that and will look into the ipod for the cf mod instead if they dont have the same issue with regards seemingly only the a-data and pretec working as is the case more or less for the irivers_

 

correct, it seems they (irivers) are ridiculously picky as to which one will work with them; and it is almost which ONE; bugger all do. but yes ipods are much more forgiving in that respect; there are many that work in the ipod. check out the ipod threads over at the RB forums.


----------



## rhw

Ron's TopKit is running now the third day in my iBasso D10.
 I like it very much.
 The sound is very harmonic over the whole spectrum, from a firm bass to an undistorted treble.
 In comparison the stock configuration has a softer bass and smoother treble.
 I am still not sure to use the term "analytical" for the TopKit.
 I.e. the piano in Abdullah Ibrahim's Desert air sounds very natural, his voice has a typical breath and warmth.

 Btw. Some already have got their Pico Dacs. Congrats. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 How does it compare to the D10 DAC?


----------



## jetlaged

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_correct, it seems they (irivers) are ridiculously picky as to which one will work with them; and it is almost which ONE; bugger all do._

 

CF cards on H1xx and H3xx series with rockbox work fine, see links above to info regarding which cards work and how to install rockbox. 
 CF cards with standard firmware will seldom work if at all.

http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CFModGuide


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_correct, it seems they (irivers) are ridiculously picky as to which one will work with them; and it is almost which ONE; bugger all do. but yes ipods are much more forgiving in that respect; there are many that work in the ipod. check out the ipod threads over at the RB forums._

 

Great stuff, thanks for the info, I had presumed, having only researched the iriver cf mod that all cf mods were equally as picky. Certainly opens up options knowing that, cheers mate.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jetlaged* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CF cards on H1xx and H3xx series with rockbox work fine, see links above to info regarding which cards work and how to install rockbox. 
 CF cards with standard firmware will seldom work if at all.

CFModGuide < Main < TWiki_

 

did you actually read my post?? i'm running RB; the CF card I use in my ipod (also using RB) doesnt wrk in the iriver running RB. get me. now can we please get back on topic?? do you really think I havent seen that post?? sorry for being grumpy, but I dont know why you posted that link when it was posted on the previous page; even if I were silly enough to not have looked up all this information before installing a CF in my ipod A LONG TIME AGO


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ron's TopKit is running now the third day in my iBasso D10.
 I like it very much.
 The sound is very harmonic over the whole spectrum, from a firm bass to an indistorted treble.
 In comparison the stock configuration has a softer bass and smoother treble.
 I am still not sure to use the term "analytical" for the TopKit.
 I.e. the piano in Abdullah Ibrahim's Desert air sound very natural, his voice has a typical breath and warmth.

 Btw. Some already have got their Pico Dacs. Congrats. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 How does it compare to the D10 DAC?_

 

I am finding my D10 with AD743/AD8616 buffers is very similar to my Pico DAC-only with RSA P-51 Mustang amp. In short - very good!


----------



## jetlaged

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_did you actually read my post?? i'm running RB; the CF card I use in my ipod (also using RB) doesnt wrk in the iriver running RB. get me. now can we please get back on topic?? do you really think I havent seen that post??_

 

Oh dear...

 On Topic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really like the sound from my D10 with OPA2350 and 8616 buffers, I can crank the volume up without the sound becoming brittle, it's the best combination yet for my UE10pro's which have very low impedance, (13ohms), I don't think that the standard amps are well suited to low impedance IEM's.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jetlaged* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh dear...

 On Topic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really like the sound from my D10 with OPA2350 and 8616 buffers, I can crank the volume up without the sound becoming brittle, it's the best combination yet for my UE10pro's which have very low impedance. I don't think that the standard amps are well suited to low impedance IEM's._

 

also loving this combo myself; yet to get the correct adapter to use the AD743JN from topkit, but I have a feeling I will like this BB opamp better anyway as I usually prefer their sig to the AD selections I have here. I have decided to draw a line under my op-amp collecting for D10 as the case they supply you is packed to the rafters with no room for any more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 besides i'm loving the sound i'm getting so much at the moment that if the 743 are better then i'll be totally happy to leave it right there and just relax and enjoy the music. even as is without the 743 I could happily do that....if I didnt have them sitting there looking at me daring me to try them.

 dont mind me i'm grumpy bums the last few days as I have the flu bad!! but yeah i'm aware of the requirements to use CF in iriver and ipod


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jetlaged* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh dear...

 On Topic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I really like the sound from my D10 with OPA2350 and 8616 buffers, I can crank the volume up without the sound becoming brittle, it's the best combination yet for my UE10pro's which have very low impedance, (13ohms), I don't think that the standard amps are well suited to low impedance IEM's._

 

Agreed, I mentioned previously that if I was only using my ES3X that the 2350/8616 would be a great choice for no hiss and positive synergy. It just doesn't sound as good with my HD600 as the AD743/8616, and is too bassy for the Senn IE8.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am finding my D10 with AD743/AD8616 buffers is very similar to my Pico DAC-only with RSA P-51 Mustang amp. In short - very good!_

 

Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, I have been using the AD743 and the Ad8616 and the sound is clean, tight, open and dynamic. Great stuff. It just keeps getting better. Competition driven.


----------



## jetlaged

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It just doesn't sound as good with my HD600 as the AD743/8616, and is too bassy for the Senn IE8._

 

what is the impedance of the Senn IE8's ?, I think that with higher impedances then brighter amp combinations are required, 

 Edit; (hmm googling shows that the speaker concept of the UE10's and IE8's is totally different) and impedances are 13 ohms and 16ohms respectively.


----------



## HiFlight

Impedance ratings are very deceptive! The rated impedance of a speaker or phones is an average. The actual instantaneous impedance can and does change with frequency, hence one can't directly compare the SQs of two devices with the same or similar "impedance" ratings and expect them to have similar highs, lows, soundstages, etc., as their impedance differences can occur at different points in the audio spectrum.

 The sound signature of a speaker or headphone is the net result of all of these frequency-related impedance changes and where they fall in the audio spectrum.


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, what he said.


----------



## Jolly Bodger

I've just got my D10 and I'm very impressed. This is my 1st headphone dac/amp and I'm a bit thick when it comes to electronics. It arrived with no manual/instructions, so I contacted ibasso and they e-mailed me the manual. It only seems to cover the bare minimum. There is no info on the chips supplied which I assume are opamps and buffers - I haven't a clue how to identify them as there doesn't appear to be any numbers on them (told you I was thick). What are the benefits of changing them and is the difference that big? I am not clear if I can charge the amp at the same time as playing music through it via my computer/USB - I've resisted trying it in case I do damage.


 I apologise if this has been covered in earlier posts but I got to page 30 and got sick of reading about irivers!

 JB


----------



## qusp

sure you can play it while you are charging it, no problem. and yes the opamps do make a significant difference; I thought you said youd been reading the thread?? yeah theres a lot about irivers, because really this dac/amp was pretty much made for them. its sound is far superior when being driven optically and there is no other dap that has optical. you can get some PCDPs that do and obviously some laptops do, but as far as a HD based player; thats it.

 thing is, if you cant see theres any numbers or markings on the opamps; I dont know if you should be changing them


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jolly Bodger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just got my D10 and I'm very impressed. This is my 1st headphone dac/amp and I'm a bit thick when it comes to electronics. It arrived with no manual/instructions, so I contacted ibasso and they e-mailed me the manual. It only seems to cover the bare minimum. There is no info on the chips supplied which I assume are opamps and buffers - I haven't a clue how to identify them as there doesn't appear to be any numbers on them (told you I was thick). What are the benefits of changing them and is the difference that big? I am not clear if I can charge the amp at the same time as playing music through it via my computer/USB - I've resisted trying it in case I do damage.


 I apologise if this has been covered in earlier posts but I got to page 30 and got sick of reading about irivers!

 JB_

 

Get yourself a good magnifying glass & light. The writing is usually visible if you change the angle at which you are looking at the opamp. While you're at it, get some needle nosed pliers as well.

 Before you touch any opamps or the board, MAKE SURE you ground yourself on something metal or wear an anti-static wrist band.

 If you do decide to roll opamps, after you've taken off the D10's faceplate, pull the board out by grabbing the volume knob "thingee" (yes, that's the technical term).

 With the volume knob pointing RIGHT, you'll see a pyramid of opamps. The top is the L/R and the bottom two are the buffers.

 Again, with the volume knob pointing to the right, look how the opamps are situated. At the bottom right corner of each opamp, you'll notice a SQUARE, instead of a circle. Always make sure the square is in the bottom right corner.

 Get your pliers and gently pull an opamp up. I tend to "jiggle" (rock it back and forth) the opamp as I pull up. I think it's easiest to take out the L/R opamp first, then the right buffer, followed by the left buffer.

 Once you've chosen which opamps you want to try next (again, ground yourself before touching any chips), put the opamps in the socket with the SQUARE in the bottom right corner. Gently push down on the edges of the adapter with your fingernails. You'll also want to match the two buffers (ie: two AD8656, not one AD8532 and AD8656, etc).

 I put the opamps back in, in the opposite order I've taken them out. L buffer, R buffer, L/R channel. I find it's easier to do it that way.

 Put everything back in place and you're good to go.

 That's about it, I think.


----------



## jetlaged

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Again, with the volume knob pointing to the right, look how the opamps are situated. At the bottom right corner of each opamp, you'll notice a SQUARE, instead of a circle. Always make sure the square is in the bottom right corner._

 

For correct orientation of the IC amp and the DIP socket I line up the little "half circle" that's printed on the side of each IC amp board, and on the recipient DIP socket there's a little "half circle" that is missing from one side of the DIP socket.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jolly Bodger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just got my D10 and I'm very impressed. This is my 1st headphone dac/amp and I'm a bit thick when it comes to electronics. It arrived with no manual/instructions, so I contacted ibasso and they e-mailed me the manual. It only seems to cover the bare minimum. There is no info on the chips supplied which I assume are opamps and buffers - I haven't a clue how to identify them as there doesn't appear to be any numbers on them (told you I was thick). What are the benefits of changing them and is the difference that big? I am not clear if I can charge the amp at the same time as playing music through it via my computer/USB - I've resisted trying it in case I do damage.


 I apologise if this has been covered in earlier posts but I got to page 30 and got sick of reading about irivers!

 JB_

 

I would also say that you shouldn't really start playing with other opamps until you have several hundred hours of burn-in and listening time on the rather good stock configuration so you have a good feel for the base sound.


----------



## jetlaged

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ If you do decide to roll opamps, after you've taken off the D10's faceplate, pull the board out by grabbing the volume knob "thingee" (yes, that's the technical term)._

 

After removing the four faceplate securing screws, (on the volume knob side), I don't pull on the volume knob to slide the main board out, (my volume knob came right off), instead I push on the coax receptacle at the other end with my little pinky finger, this slides the main board out far enough that I can then grip the SIDES of the main board between thumb and forefinger to gently pull the main board further out, no stress on the volume knob and it wont pull off, it's only fixed with a dab of glue, it's no big deal to re-glue it if it does come off it's mount shaft.

 When sliding the main board back into it's receptacle ensure that the plugs and respective cutaways at the other end are correctly lined up so that the main board doesn't protrude a tiny bit which will prevent the volume side faceplate from seating correctly.


----------



## nc8000

I started by pulling the volume knob of and then removed the front plate and finally grabbed the actual circuit board and pulled as I don't like pulling/pushing on any of the connectors for fear of breaking a solder joint. Getteing the board back in was a bit of a problem as the usb and optical connectors don't exactly match the cutouts in the back plate and the bolts holding the back plate are either stripped or not the same as the ones on the front as the included tool just rotates in them. I succeded by inserting a small wodden rod in the optical port and just slightly lifted it while pushing on the front of the board and all went in fine.


----------



## jetlaged

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I succeded by inserting a small wodden rod in the optical port and just slightly lifted it while pushing on the front of the board and all went in fine._

 

No need to stick a object into the connector itself.

 As you slide the board back the coax connector will protrude out the back plate, then by gently moving it around whilst simultaneously pushing the board back in will ensure that it lines up properly at the back and will properly seat the board so that the front face plate will fit correctly. It's unnecessary to remove the back plates screws or fiddle with the back plate.


----------



## qusp

^^ LOL giving lessons again; . it is actually preferable to remove the backplate as well as then you arent doing the jiggling you seem to think is the best way to do it. nc8000 is correct in that repeatedly jiggling and wiggling the connectors may eventually mean there is a problem. one in particular is the LED; the LED is only really held in place by the hole in the backplate; other than that its just an LED suspended by its leads (which are thin wires); if you just push it back into place it can bend and you have to remove the board and bend it back into place. the more times you do this, the more likely it is to damage something. it is much easier on the parts if you can remove both panels. 

 nc8000: I would let them know about this problem you have with the mounting nuts on the back being a different gauge to the front and the fact that your torx wrench doesnt fit them. alternatively you could buy a set of torx wrenches off ebay with various sizes. you can pick them up really cheap with lots of different sizes; the one you need is almost definitely going to be covered. I picked up a set for ipod and iriver maintenance for around $10 and you can get them for less. (mine included 5 different sizes and they are of good quality; I got them from an aussie seller; you can pick up sets of 50+ tools from china for not too much more. but they are maybe not as high quality as the smaller sets


----------



## jetlaged

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^ LOL giving lessons again; . it is actually preferable to remove the backplate as well as then you arent doing the jiggling you seem to think is the best way to do it. nc8000 is correct in that repeatedly jiggling and wiggling the connectors may eventually mean there is a problem. one in particular is the LED;_

 

There is certainly more than one way of skinning the cat, I disagree with removing the back plate, I haven't to date, and I manage to lign up the rear LED's perfectly with minimal, really a tiny amount of jiggling, but to each his own "says he as he kisses the cow" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 EDIT, well instead of removing the back panel, why not just loosen the screws off a touch, this would achieve the same purpose without removing the back panel.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jetlaged* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After removing the four faceplate securing screws, (on the volume knob side), I don't pull on the volume knob to slide the main board out, (my volume knob came right off), instead I push on the coax receptacle at the other end with my little pinky finger, this slides the main board out far enough that I can then grip the SIDES of the main board between thumb and forefinger to gently pull the main board further out, no stress on the volume knob and it wont pull off, it's only fixed with a dab of glue, it's no big deal to re-glue it if it does come off it's mount shaft.
_

 

Fair enough, the reason why I pull on the volume knob is because when I first did it, the volume knob popped off fairly easily...it wasn't glued in placed, so I got used to doing that. When my D10 got back from being repaired, it was glued on.


----------



## jamato8

I wouldn't pull on the volume control very much. The pot isn't really designed for the strain. I just gently push on the coax connector on the back and wiggle the pcb out while gripping the front. Ahhh the fun. . . .


----------



## HiFlight

After removing the front screws, I don't bother with the volume knob, I just insert a small phillips screwdriver in the optical out jack and tap with a small mallet. The board comes right out.


----------



## HiFlight

My optical out worked fine when I got my D10, but it doesn't work now, guess I'll have to send it back to iBasso.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After removing the front screws, I don't bother with the volume knob, I just insert a small phillips screwdriver in the optical out jack and tap with a small mallet. The board comes right out._

 

Ron, I guess you are kidding? As another method, you could just use a hammer drill.


----------



## HiFlight

****Winks!*****


----------



## jamato8

You got me good on that one Ron.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After removing the front screws, I don't bother with the volume knob, I just insert a small phillips screwdriver in the optical out jack and tap with a small mallet. The board comes right out._

 

what ; like one of those ones the chiropractor uses?? I think i've got one of those around somewhere, i'll have to give that a try.. thanks Ron


----------



## jetlaged

How to dissasemble and reasemble the D10 without trauma.

 Front of the Unit is the side which has the volume control knob.

*Caution:* 
 1). Ensure that you have grounded your fingers before touching any board mounted object. Do not touch board pins or circuitry with fingers or with metallic objects to prohibit electrical damage due to static electricity.
 2). Do not over torque the faceplate retaining screws as the housing threads are easily stripped.

_Dissasembly;_
 After removing the front four faceplate securing screws, (on the volume knob side) push on the coax receptacle at the rear end with finger, this slides the main board out far enough until it can be gripped by the SIDES between thumb and forefinger to gently pull the main board further out, about 3~4 cm, enough to acccess the three IC's only.
 Don't pull on the volume knob to remove the board, this will stress the volume potentiometer (pot), and the volume knob might pull off it's mount shaft, it's only fixed with a dab of glue.

_Removal and Orientation of opamp (1 of), and Buffers (2 of) in DIP soctkets;_
 Use long nose pliers only on the sides of the opamp and buffer IC boards to wiggle and pull the opamps and buffers loose, lift the IC's vertically to remove from DIP boards, or use a non metallic object to gently pry and symmetrically lift the IC's clear of their respective DIP sockets.
 For correct orientation of the IC amp and the DIP socket line up the little "half circle" that's printed on the side of each IC amp board, and on the recipient DIP socket there's a little "half circle" that is missing from one side of the DIP socket.

_Reassembly;_
 When sliding the main board back into its receptacle ensure that the plugs and respective cutaways on the rear-end are correctly lined up so that the LED's and USB plug are correctly seated and that the main board doesn't protrude a tiny bit at the front which will prevent the front faceplate from seating correctly.

 If you're struggling to realign the rear faceplate cut-outs with board components loosen the rear faceplate retaining screws just enough so that the rear faceplate is loose, seat the board and rear faceplate correctly and re-tighten the rear faceplate screws. Re-align the front faceplate, refit the screws.


_and I now await the howls of derision for this post as it's of no use at _*"The End"*


----------



## HiFlight

Nice tutorial!


----------



## qusp

nah; as much as many on this thread are across this stuff, cool that you put in the time for the noobs


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jetlaged* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How to dissasemble and reasemble the D10 without trauma.
 -snip-_

 

You should send this to iBasso w/some pics, so they can start including it into the D10's User's Manual.


----------



## RASeymour

Manual? You mean that sheet of paper?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RASeymour* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Manual? You mean that sheet of paper?_

 

Hey, what do you want?? LOL, yeah that one. It is nicely printed. :^)

 I agree an inclusion of rolling and how to do it should be requisite. 

 On another note, I am listening with the AD743 and AD8616's on the output and the sound is incredible. A black, black background, open and dynamic. Getting fed by WAV or lossless from my iRiver H140 with the 120gb drive is a true treat. I have even been comparing to my Woo 6 (highly modified) and I am not left wanting for sound quality. 

 I didn't know it but do now, the traces on the D10 are gold plated. My preamp from Quicksilver, many years ago, the Full Function Pre, had gold plated traces.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, what do you want?? LOL, yeah that one. It is nicely printed. :^)

 I agree an inclusion of rolling and how to do it should be requisite. 

 On another note, I am listening with the AD743 and AD8616's on the output and the sound is incredible. A black, black background, open and dynamic. Getting fed by WAV or lossless from my iRiver H140 with the 120gb drive is a true treat. I have even been comparing to my Woo 6 (highly modified) and I am not left wanting for sound quality. 

 I didn't know it but do now, the traces on the D10 are gold plated. My preamp from Quicksilver, many years ago, the Full Function Pre, had gold plated traces._

 

I have said recently that my D10 with AD743/AD8616 reminds me of my Pico DAC-only feeding RSA P-51 Mustang. What do you think?

 I do think the sound is now fantastic, almost as good as my Amphora and SP Sq Wave XL, but still a notch below the WA6.


----------



## jamato8

As I noted a few pages back I have changed out the capacitors to Black Gate nonpolar. The sound quality change was worth it. Was the stock amp/dac excellent, yes. But I have to admit the Black Gates work very well in the D10.


----------



## wuwhere

Excellent how to disassemble/reassemble. However, I would never touch a circuit board unless I'm ESD strapped to ground.







  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jetlaged* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How to dissasemble and reasemble the D10 without trauma.

 Front of the Unit is the side which has the volume control knob.

*Caution:* 
 1). Ensure that you have grounded your fingers before touching any board mounted object. Do not touch board pins or circuitry with fingers or with metallic objects to prohibit electrical damage due to static electricity.
 2). Do not over torque the faceplate retaining screws as the housing threads are easily stripped.

Dissasembly;
 After removing the front four faceplate securing screws, (on the volume knob side) push on the coax receptacle at the rear end with finger, this slides the main board out far enough until it can be gripped by the SIDES between thumb and forefinger to gently pull the main board further out, about 3~4 cm, enough to acccess the three IC's only.
 Don't pull on the volume knob to remove the board, this will stress the volume potentiometer (pot), and the volume knob might pull off it's mount shaft, it's only fixed with a dab of glue.

Removal and Orientation of opamp (1 of), and Buffers (2 of) in DIP soctkets;
 Use long nose pliers only on the sides of the opamp and buffer IC boards to wiggle and pull the opamps and buffers loose, lift the IC's vertically to remove from DIP boards, or use a non metallic object to gently pry and symmetrically lift the IC's clear of their respective DIP sockets.
 For correct orientation of the IC amp and the DIP socket line up the little "half circle" that's printed on the side of each IC amp board, and on the recipient DIP socket there's a little "half circle" that is missing from one side of the DIP socket.

Reassembly;
 When sliding the main board back into its receptacle ensure that the plugs and respective cutaways on the rear-end are correctly lined up so that the LED's and USB plug are correctly seated and that the main board doesn't protrude a tiny bit at the front which will prevent the front faceplate from seating correctly.

 If you're struggling to realign the rear faceplate cut-outs with board components loosen the rear faceplate retaining screws just enough so that the rear faceplate is loose, seat the board and rear faceplate correctly and re-tighten the rear faceplate screws. Re-align the front faceplate, refit the screws.


and I now await the howls of derision for this post as it's of no use at *"The End"*_


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I noted a few pages back I have changed out the capacitors to Black Gate nonpolar. The sound quality change was worth it. Was the stock amp/dac excellent, yes. But I have to admit the Black Gates work very well in the D10._

 

A maxxed D10 seems to be a fascinating idea.
 Can you post a pict of your Black Gates cap mod?
 Hard to get any BG since the produciton is stopped.

 What is about OS-CON SA?
 Shall be fine for digital power supply.

 Are the caps you changed (470 and 1500 uF) for the analog or digital part or for both?


----------



## voon

Sigh, a crash ate my post and now my hand hurt to much to repeat it, please exxcsue the shortness of this post, but RSI claims my writing ability. In short: If I look up several recommended opamps here at sites like Farnell Schweiz, I always seem to get a multitude of chip variants with the names posted here. Which one does one need? An example would be to go to above website and type Ad8616 into the product search field on top. The amount of chips with a similar image and same name is just totally confusing me.


----------



## qusp

perhaps you should read this thread; its covered in detail


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A maxxed D10 seems to be a fascinating idea.
 Can you post a pict of your Black Gates cap mod?
 Hard to get any BG since the produciton is stopped.

 What is about OS-CON SA?
 Shall be fine for digital power supply.

 Are the caps you changed (470 and 1500 uF) for the analog or digital part or for both?_

 

these are just in the power rail if I remember correctly; at that stage he hadnt modded the coupling caps. and BTW blackgate are actually fairly easy to get still if you searcg well; you can get them at percyaudio.com or partsconnexion as well as 'the loft'


----------



## jamato8

The OS-Con work in the digital but I used all Black Gate nonpolar. I replaced all the electrolytics with nonpolar and even bypassed with small value nonpolar HiQ Black Gates. It is a very, very tight fit and you have to look at what can be moved, as the battery can be moved allowing for more room where the larger caps were and the 470uf caps to be replaced need to be shoved forward some. You can mess up the circuit and it all takes a little time and patients.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The OS-Con work in the digital but I used all Black Gate nonpolar. I replaced all the electrolytics with nonpolar and even bypassed with small value nonpolar HiQ Black Gates. It is a very, very tight fit and you have to look at what can be moved, as the battery can be moved allowing for more room where the larger caps were and the 470uf caps to be replaced need to be shoved forward some. You can mess up the circuit and it all takes a little time and *patients*._

 

That spelling works for us medical people, but everyone else needs patience...


----------



## jamato8

Well what do you expect after 12 plus hours in ICU today? :^) I didn't think it looked quiet rite.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well what do you expect after 12 plus hours in ICU today? :^) I didn't think it looked quiet rite._

 

Now you have Rite-Aid pharmacy on your mind...


----------



## Nuge

Can anyone tell me how the ibasso D10 improves the sound of the ATH-ES7? I am probably going to end up purchasing the D10 in a few months, because I have heard it has a slightly-warm sound.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The OS-Con work in the digital but I used all Black Gate nonpolar. I replaced all the electrolytics with nonpolar and even bypassed with small value nonpolar HiQ Black Gates. It is a very, very tight fit and you have to look at what can be moved, as the battery can be moved allowing for more room where the larger caps were and the 470uf caps to be replaced need to be shoved forward some. You can mess up the circuit and it all takes a little time and patients._

 

I was very pleased with the performance of the BG non-polars in my D1, but as I am now using my D10 for lots of testing, I decided to leave the stock caps, otherwise I wouldn't know whether the caps or the opamps were influencing the sound.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was very pleased with the performance of the BG non-polars in my D1, but as I am now using my D10 for lots of testing, I decided to leave the stock caps, otherwise I wouldn't know whether the caps or the opamps were influencing the sound._

 

I totally agree. The sound of stock is fine, well more than fine, it is excellent.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I totally agree. The sound of stock is fine, well more than fine, it is excellent._

 

I think the stock D10 sounds like a Predator with an noticeable DAC upgrade.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The OS-Con work in the digital but I used all Black Gate nonpolar. I replaced all the electrolytics with nonpolar and even bypassed with small value nonpolar HiQ Black Gates. It is a very, very tight fit and you have to look at what can be moved, as the battery can be moved allowing for more room where the larger caps were and the 470uf caps to be replaced need to be shoved forward some. You can mess up the circuit and it all takes a little time and patients._

 

How do you decide what value of caps. you can replace/bypassed? I am very tempted to try.


----------



## h.rav

Hi guys,

 what kind of Optical cable is needed to connect the D10 to my MacBook?

Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more: MiniPlug to Toslink Premium Optical Cable 0.05 to 50 meters

 or

Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more: MiniPlug to MiniPlug Premium Optical Cable 0.05 to 50 meters


----------



## rhw

A miniplug (MacBook) to toslink (D10) will be fine.


----------



## clasam

Hey guys, how often do you recharge your D10s? 

 I know that Li Ion batteries like to be full as much as possible, but how often do you charge em, and conversely, is it bad to let the battery run down completely (how much do you let the batteries run down)?


----------



## qusp

I probably let it run dpwn 1 out of 4 or 5 goes, the rest of the time I top it off whenever I feel like it; but usually within 10hrs of use I reckon.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, how often do you recharge your D10s? 

 I know that Li Ion batteries like to be full as much as possible, but how often do you charge em, and conversely, is it bad to let the battery run down completely (how much do you let the batteries run down)?_

 

I have read that it is bad to completely deplete the battery. I just leave the USB plugged in all the time when I don't use it mobile. No problems and the battery is easy to replace.


----------



## jonathanjong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A miniplug (MacBook) to toslink (D10) will be fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So the regular 3.5mm plug goes into the MacBook optical out? Doesn't that need a mini-toslink thingabob too?


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonathanjong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the regular 3.5mm plug goes into the MacBook optical out? Doesn't that need a mini-toslink thingabob too?_

 

I meant a mini toslink to toslink cable.
 Macs have a combined line out / optical output (3.5 mm).


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have read that it is bad to completely deplete the battery. I just leave the USB plugged in all the time when I don't use it mobile. No problems and the battery is easy to replace._

 

I also understand that to be the case with Li-ion batteries.

 However, like qusp, I have had the situation of the battery not having sufficient power to run the D10.

 To my mind, though, that wouldn't have _depleted_ (i.e. flattened) it, just made its stored levels of power quite low.

 So charging it at that time (not leaving it depleted for a long period of time, as batteries do discharge a little over time even when unused) would have little if any negative impact.

 Qusp, Li-ion don't benefit from going to a flat/depleted state like NiMHs (NiMHs can regain their highest level of rechargability generally through regular flattening/depletion but Li-ions are a different approach altogether).


----------



## LeeSC

If I am not wrong, it is dangerous to let your Li-ion batteries dropped below 2.4 V per cell and try to charge it up again. Devices (Cell phones/computers) that uses Li-ion have circuits built in to cut off the devices when the batteries reached a certain voltage level.

 If you are not going to use your devices for a long time, the Li-ion batteries should be brought to 40%-60% charged level for storage.


----------



## LevA

Ok I'm about to bite the bullet and order the d10. 
 I just checked cables for toslink to mini for my macbook pro and will order them as well...
 One question though, how is the d10 with an ipod through LOD?? coz although the dac is great with optical in, how is the amp on d10 since ipod will be mostly used for my listening???
 I've been trying to find an answer and reading up but seems like everyone is pretty much talking about optical in with their PC or their iriver set up. hardly any comments with ipods and comparisons to other amps like Mustang etc..


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One question though, how is the d10 with an ipod through LOD?? coz although the dac is great with optical in, how is the amp on d10 since ipod will be mostly used for my listening???
 I've been trying to find an answer and reading up but seems like everyone is pretty much talking about optical in with their PC or their iriver set up. hardly any comments with ipods and comparisons to other amps like Mustang etc.._

 


 I think the answer you'll get is that the DAC/amp combo is the strength of this unit if you have a deecnt digital source. Aside from that, the amp is very good and can hold it's own with some of the old standards here. Also, you can alter the flavor of sound to your liking by trying different opamps (some even supplied by ibasso).

 On a separate note, you folks with the AD743/AD8616 combo...is it still your favorite....any follow-up observations now that you have more time with it?


----------



## GLdgShDjKsHT

right now i am really torned between the d10 and 3move ... the 3move would be more convenient for me, i live in europe so it'll cost less but the d10 isn't so expensive so ...
 anyway i wanted to know which one of these is better and would recomand for techno, hip-hop and some chill maybe some classical ... who knows? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 and could someone who oned both of them describe the soundstage? which one has a better soundstage? 
 one more thing ... how does the d10 pair with the grado sr325i? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 thanks in advance


----------



## Bojamijams

I haven't heard the D10, but I love the 3MOVE for its Crossfeed which helps tremendously for long listening sessions. 

 However the Grados love current so the ability to switch opamps on the D10 to feed it high current (220ma per channel would be great) i think will make it better with grado's


----------



## Bojamijams

nvm double post.. is there a delete button somewhere?


----------



## -=Germania=-

When I have extra money, this is totally my next purchase.

 After getting another driver of course.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the answer you'll get is that the DAC/amp combo is the strength of this unit if you have a deecnt digital source. Aside from that, the amp is very good and can hold it's own with some of the old standards here. Also, you can alter the flavor of sound to your liking by trying different opamps (some even supplied by ibasso).

 On a separate note, you folks with the AD743/AD8616 combo...is it still your favorite....any follow-up observations now that you have more time with it?_

 

I agree the D10 with a nice ipod, 256K or higher MP3 or lossless files, and a decent LOD can hold it's own with the best of them. Stock I think it sounds very similar to the RSA Predator, but with a better DAC.

 With the AD743/AD8616 it sounds even better and reminds me more of the RSA P-51 Mustang. I still have the AD743/AD8616 installed in my D10 right now, which works well with my IEM and full size headphones (although I do have a little more background hiss with my IEM). I have thought about swapping the OPA2350 back in for the synergy and black background with my Westone ES3X, but then it is not as good with my HD600 or IE8.


----------



## nc8000

I am also still on the 743/8616 chipset with my Ety's and no desire to do any more rolling.


----------



## YtseJamer

I have just pulled the trigger 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I will also purchase the AD743/AD8616 kit.


----------



## jingles_97

Has anyone here successfully implemented the 743/8616 combo driving AKG k701s? Hiflight sent two samples of the the 743, and they both exhibit higher levels of distortion with the k701s.


----------



## jonathanjong

So....where does one purchase a 743/8616 kit? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eroarex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_right now i am really torned between the d10 and 3move ... the 3move would be more convenient for me, i live in europe so it'll cost less but the d10 isn't so expensive so ...
 anyway i wanted to know which one of these is better and would recomand for techno, hip-hop and some chill maybe some classical ... who knows? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 and could someone who oned both of them describe the soundstage? which one has a better soundstage? 
 one more thing ... how does the d10 pair with the grado sr325i? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 thanks in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have a 2Move and a gold 325i. So...if you want to wait about 2 weeks, I can give you a comparison. The 2Move is a 3Move in an older casing, IIRC.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonathanjong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So....where does one purchase a 743/8616 kit? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

PM HiFlight. He will be able to help you out.


----------



## nc8000

By sending a pm to hiflight and asking for the D10 Topkit. Say Joe sent you


----------



## mayajoe

Mods: please delete


----------



## mayajoe

Hi to all,
 I have recieved my D10 and using Sennhisers IE8s with an ipod classic 160gb and a LOD.
 The issue i'm having is the hiss i get from the whole rig.

 As a newbie here, can anyone tell me if there is a solution to the hissing problem?
 I am playing mostly 320kbps music. But to be honest, I dont think i can tolerate the hissing as it really annoys me.
 I have read that the problem is because of the low impedence with the IE8s and possibly raising the impedence with an adapter might reduce it. Does this sound right?
 Sorry to sound ignorant but thats because i am still learning and hopefully some of you can help me with this annoying problem.
 Hope this is the right thread for this question but could not find alot of info on this problem.
 Thanks to all in advance.


----------



## LevA

just bit the bullet and ordered d10 and toss to mini cable at sys.concept!!!
 now what else do I need???
 ah gota find me a decent LOD
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 hmmm......


----------



## jamato8

I am still using the 743 and 8616 and do I enjoy it. . . it is still in the D10. 

 So much fun when out and I have this great sound with a hard drive optical out and on the go. JUst too good.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am still using the 743 and 8616 and do I enjoy it. . . it is still in the D10. 

 So much fun when out and I have this great sound with a hard drive optical out and on the go. JUst too good._

 

No...no...stop it please! No more opamps! I can't take it anym...ok, maybe just one more combo...

 -HK sends


----------



## DC5Zilla

Since the D10 is finally back in stock and I have just received my D-NE20 from Japan, I'm ready to pull my trigger on D10. But I have one question... Does opamp 2350/8616 comes with the D10? Or Do I have to buy it separately? if so, where can I get one?


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DC5Zilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since the D10 is finally back in stock and I have just received my D-NE20 from Japan, I'm ready to pull my trigger on D10. But I have one question... Does opamp 2350/8616 comes with the D10? Or Do I have to buy it separately? if so, where can I get one?_

 

Separately. The 2350 is a Dip style opamp (no adapter needed), the 8616 is SOIC, meaning you have to solder it onto a browndog adapter. If you don't want to solder, you can get it from Hi Flight


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am still using the 743 and 8616 and do I enjoy it. . . it is still in the D10. 

 So much fun when out and I have this great sound with a hard drive optical out and on the go. JUst too good._

 

I have just purchased the Topkit from Ron. 

 Now I hope that this amp will be as good as my Mustang P-51..


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I am not wrong, it is dangerous to let your Li-ion batteries dropped below 2.4 V per cell and try to charge it up again. Devices (Cell phones/computers) that uses Li-ion have circuits built in to cut off the devices when the batteries reached a certain voltage level.

 If you are not going to use your devices for a long time, the Li-ion batteries should be brought to 40%-60% charged level for storage._

 

May I know why not charge to 100% for the Li-ion batteries? A guy told me that it should be charged to 100% before storage and I want to which way is better.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eroarex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_right now i am really torned between the d10 and 3move ... the 3move would be more convenient for me, i live in europe so it'll cost less but the d10 isn't so expensive so ...
 anyway i wanted to know which one of these is better and would recomand for techno, hip-hop and some chill maybe some classical ... who knows? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 and could someone who oned both of them describe the soundstage? which one has a better soundstage? 
 one more thing ... how does the d10 pair with the grado sr325i? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 thanks in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I own both the Move and the D10 and I think D10 is better or at least on par. The amp of Move is the same as the 3Move so I hope my opinion helps to answer your questions. The DAC of the Move is mediocre and if you're not going to use the DAC of the 3Move then my opinion still helps.

 If you want to compare the DAC/Amp combo, I believe HPA has a more than detail thread that you can read. D10 is the better if my memory have not betrayed me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am still using the 743 and 8616 and do I enjoy it. . . it is still in the D10. 

 So much fun when out and I have this great sound with a hard drive optical out and on the go. JUst too good._

 

But your D10 is the D10 maxxed version 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have you ever thought of doing a pay for modding D10 service? Just like Ron serving the Head-Fi community by offering the TopKit?


----------



## hvu

Hi I am new to Head-Fi and new to head amp rolling.
 I just got my D10 today and giving it a proper burn in period before I start rolling it.
 From what I have been reading the stock opamp and the AD8656 combo is a good combination to start with so does that mean I just replace the two buffer amps with two AD8656 and just leave the stock opamp alone?
 I was also wonder about the OPA2350/EL8201 combo does the mean two OPA2350 and one EL8201 or does that mean one OPA2350 and two EL8201?


----------



## royalmathmtcs

Can anyone suggest a combination that would have good synergy with a setup that switches between IE8s and D2000s? I am finding the stock setup way too dark for my liking.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_May I know why not charge to 100% for the Li-ion batteries? A guy told me that it should be charged to 100% before storage and I want to which way is better._

 

I understood that they should be around 80 percent when stored.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi I am new to Head-Fi and new to head amp rolling.
 I just got my D10 today and giving it a proper burn in period before I start rolling it.
 From what I have been reading the stock opamp and the AD8656 combo is a good combination to start with so does that mean I just replace the two buffer amps with two AD8656 and just leave the stock opamp alone?
 I was also wonder about the OPA2350/EL8201 combo does the mean two OPA2350 and one EL8201 or does that mean one OPA2350 and two EL8201?_

 

I would suggest that you might first try the AD8656 in LR with the dummy buffers. 
 The OPA2350/EL8201 means that there is 1 OPA2350 in LR, and (2) EL8201s used, one in each buffer socket. 

 WARNING: Opamp rolling is addictive and can cause much use of time that could otherwise be spent becoming rich and famous!


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I understood that they should be around 80 percent when stored._

 

Any rationale? 

 The guy told me that all batteries drains naturally and we should keep Li-ion battery from complete depletion as well. Hence one should charge it up as far as possible to buy more time.


----------



## burgunder

There is a wiki page on the use of Li-ion batteries Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *burgunder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a wiki page on the use of Li-ion batteries Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_

 

Thank you very much. How can I make sure the Li-Ion is charged only to 40%?


----------



## qusp

maybe just time how long it takes to charge fully and then charge it for a little less than 40% of theat time, batteries tend to charge the first part more quickly, with the last 10-20% taking longer to achieve proportionately.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_May I know why not charge to 100% for the Li-ion batteries? A guy told me that it should be charged to 100% before storage and I want to which way is better._

 

The battery will not be able to hold 100% charge. I fly RC and that happens to my Li-Po packs.


----------



## hvu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would suggest that you might first try the AD8656 in LR with the dummy buffers. 
 The OPA2350/EL8201 means that there is 1 OPA2350 in LR, and (2) EL8201s used, one in each buffer socket. 

 WARNING: Opamp rolling is addictive and can cause much use of time that could otherwise be spent becoming rich and famous!_

 

Thx for the help and advice I would give it a try when I properly get my D10 burned in.
 So would it work if I used the stock opamp and AD8656 as buffer and would it sound any good?


----------



## Nosgis

Today I became a member of the D10 club. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I hear there's a bigger manual floating around, in pdf. Correct? Could anyone send it to me?


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thx for the help and advice I would give it a try when I properly get my D10 burned in.
 So would it work if I used the stock opamp and AD8656 as buffer and would it sound any good?_

 

Yes, it'll work. Will it sound good? I don't know, you tell me.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nosgis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Today I became a member of the D10 club. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I hear there's a bigger manual floating around, in pdf. Correct? Could anyone send it to me?_

 

I want the bigger manual as well. Can anybody help in the following questions as well.

 1. What is the burn-in time for the D10 time?

 2. What is the burn-in time for the topkit? I am more interested in the 
 2350/8616 combination.

 3. My D10 is used frequently as a USB DAC and hence the orange light is often on. However, I have switched the charging toggle to off. In this case, will the USB still charge the D10?

 Thanks.


----------



## nc8000

No when the charging toggle is of it does not charge that's kind of whar off means. The dac alone can work of usb power in that mode but the amp part if used will draw from the battery and drain it.


----------



## Nosgis

Ho do I use the dac alone by the way?

 I just sent an e-mail to iBasso ragarding the pdf manual.


----------



## nc8000

By plugging a digital source into one of the rear connections and a 1/8" jack in the line in/out plug (the right hand one) on the front and then just turning the volume switch enough to turn the unit on and if the digital source in is the usb port the unit will be powered by the usb alone and the charge switch can be left on off although I always leave it on when plugged in.


----------



## Nosgis

Ah, I see. Nice to know. And if there is a headphone connected to the headphone in/out (the left one), it will automatically amp it?

 GreenLeo: I could send you the manual when I get a reply from iBasso.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nosgis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, I see. Nice to know. And if there is a headphone connected to the headphone in/out (the left one), it will automatically amp it?

 GreenLeo: I could send you the manual when I get a reply from iBasso._

 

Many thanks, Nosgis.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nosgis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, I see. Nice to know. And if there is a headphone connected to the headphone in/out (the left one), it will automatically amp it?

 GreenLeo: I could send you the manual when I get a reply from iBasso._

 

Yes when a headphone is connected the line out is disabled and the amp kicks in and that always run from the battery


----------



## drc73rp

3 Days from clicking _Pay_. Take that Dr. Xin!!!!


----------



## charlie0904

doctor are usually slow...... hehehe..


----------



## webbie64

I'll admit the D10 is wonderful but it won't lead to me dispensing with my Supermicro that's for sure.

 Both great machines for their intended purposes.


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any rationale? 

 The guy told me that all batteries drains naturally and we should keep Li-ion battery from complete depletion as well. Hence one should charge it up as far as possible to buy more time._

 

from 
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-21.htm:

  Quote:


 Store at 40% charge in a cool place (40% state-of-charge reads 3.75-3.80V/cell at open terminal.
 Do not store at full charge and at warm temperatures because of accelerated aging. 
 


 generally batteryuniversity.com is the best place to go for questions concerning all batteries.


----------



## GreenLeo

After reading the pages in this thread, I'm seriously thinking of op-amp rolling but I've just been using my D10 for 4 days. Should I let it fully burn it first rather than using the topkit immediately?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After reading the pages in this thread, I'm seriously thinking of op-amp rolling but I've just been using my D10 for 4 days. Should I let it fully burn it first rather than using the topkit immediately?_

 

It's not so much burning the D10 in, but rather getting your ear accustomed to the native sound of the D10 with the included opamps. As the differences between opamps are subtle at best, you need to know what the base sound is in order to make meaningful comparisons when trying other combinations. 

 Although I personally like the sound of the Topkit combo, there are many other combinations of opamps that also sound very good in the D10 and your preferences might be such that you will want to explore others and compare them to those that iBasso includes with the D10 (which are very nice sounding opamps)


----------



## LevA

I ordered the d10 and its on its way.
 what are the best matching opamps with esw10s???
 for those of you who have the 10s and have experimented, it would be greatly appreciated..
 I will be mainly using it for classical music so just wanna get heads up.

 thanks


----------



## jamato8

I like the combination that comes with the D10 and the 8616 and AD743 combo when using the ESW10 or most other phones. You have solid bass with a clean open soundfield.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like the combination that comes with the D10 and the 8616 and AD743 combo when using the ESW10 or most other phones. You have solid bass with a clean open soundfield._

 

That's just what I am trying to achieve. I just sent a PM to HiFlight
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 -HK sends


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like the combination that comes with the D10 and the 8616 and AD743 combo when using the ESW10 or most other phones. You have solid bass with a clean open soundfield._

 

thanks jamato8.
 I may have to look into the topkit to hear the 8616 and AD743 combo..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw, is that the combo thats been mentioned about pico dac - mustang amp sound?? I remember reading it somewhere, I guess I should go back a few pages to and read the posts again..

 btw, my macbook pro just crapped out on me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just when the d10 is about to arrive I need to send my macbook to apple!! seems like its gona take a about a week. all because of the Flawed Nvidia GPUs.....anyone else had this problem??? apparently its common and apple now admits its faulty and will fix it even after warranty expires. 
 gotta love the customer service and all but why oh why did it have to be right now!!!!


----------



## hvu

I would like to officially say I have am finally done running through all 145 pages of this thread and I would like to thank all the people that have post their opinion in this thread about their D10 as I have recently join the D10 club. I would like to put a special thanks out to Jamato8, Hi Flight and HeadphoneAddict for their time, reviews and opinions of the different combination of opamps and buffers.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to officially say I have am finally done running through all 145 pages of this thread and I would like to thank all the people that have post their opinion in this thread about their D10 as I have recently join the D10 club. I would like to put a special thanks out to Jamato8, Hi Flight and HeadphoneAddict for their time, reviews and opinions of the different combination of opamps and buffers._

 

Thanks, and welcome to the club!


----------



## hvu

I have just tried the AD8656 opamp and bypassed buffers and it sound amazing with my HD650. I have just recently got to compare my HD650 with my cousin HD580 with my D10/stock opamp and buffers with a little more than 20hrs on it. From my impression his HD580 were a nice pair with a very natural sound to it but lacking in a tightness that I presume would be present in the HD600. While at the same my HD650 had a tighter and dark tone to it, I felt that it wasn't as bright the HD580. Then I tried the AD8656 with bypassed buffers the difference was jaw dropping. The bass was as tight and dark as always but had this warm feeling to them as Jamato8 and HeadphoneAddict had reported. The most surprising was the highs had this bright sweet tone that matched the HD580 or slight better. I would also like report the acoustic and vocals just sing something that I thought never get to experience outside of my car.


----------



## hvu

I was wondering has anybody tried the D10 with the ATH-M50 combo?


----------



## HeadDoc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just tried the AD8656 opamp and bypassed buffers and it sound amazing with my HD650. I have just recently got to compare my HD650 with my cousin HD580 with my D10/stock opamp and buffers with a little more than 20hrs on it. From my impression his HD580 were a nice pair with a very natural sound to it but lacking in a tightness that I presume would be present in the HD600. While at the same my HD650 had a tighter and dark tone to it, I felt that it wasn't as bright the HD580. Then I tried the AD8656 with bypassed buffers the difference was jaw dropping. The bass was as tight and dark as always but had this warm feeling to them as Jamato8 and HeadphoneAddict had reported. The most surprising was the highs had this bright sweet tone that matched the HD580 or slight better. I would also like report the acoustic and vocals just sing something that I thought never get to experience outside of my car._

 

Thanks for the info. I am running the AD8656 Opamp and stock buffers. I was told that without the buffer I would get less power/volume. Have you had any trouble achieving your desired volume? Did you try the HD650s with the stock opamp too? Ant any rate, I'm going to pull the buffers now and find out what it is like on my HD650s!

 edit: bypassed buffers with the AD8656 is working well, lots of volume. First impression is that it has everything the stock buffers with AD8656 had, except maybe a touch more soundstage. I'll let it work in for a few days and see what I think, plus I have the Westone 3 to try out when I am at school.


----------



## kayser

I'm thinking of a Sys Concept Toslink-to-Toslikn cable with two 90deg. angled adapters for my iRiver iHP-140/iBasso D10. 
 Has anyone tried their tiny V-shaped cable (the last picture)?
 What is the shortest length for such cables? How long are the cables that you use?
 P.S. Posted an e-mail to Joseph, he said a 2.3cm Center-to-Center "U"-shape cable will work.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By sending a pm to hiflight and asking for the D10 Topkit. Say Joe sent you _

 

I installed the Topkit (after using the D10 stock for a few days). I've been listening using D10 with the Topkit in place for about 8-10 hours at this point, and here are my impressions of the differences the Topkit makes over stock:

 Here's my listening rig:
 USB port from my desktop -> USB cable that came with the D10 -> D10 -> Yuin PK1 (my workplace/portable phone of choice).

*1)* More balanced acoustic spectrum - even, with albums with tipped spectral balance, when a particular region of the spectrum causes me to turn the volume down, the remainder of the spectrum is sufficiently present to provide an ear-satisfying listen. One aspect of this that I especially appreciate is that the region of the mids where most female vocals are found is very nicely more present than with the stock D10.
*2)* Wider dynamic range - from a deeper reach "down into the grass" to hear those wonderful subtle events and variations up through the ability to reach higher crescendos without spectral or timbral distortion.
*3)* Larger, more open spatial presentation of sound - without the sound taking on any "spread too thin" quality. It's a relaxingly natural spatial presentation.
*4)* I won't say that the sound with the Topkit is "tubey". I will say that, even with the PK1, that ambient bass sounds like the heat lines rising from a warm road look - clear, with a slow undulation to it, as though it were an intoxicating fragrance or vapor. I remember hearing this effect with particular bass lines as an early distinguishing feature of the presentation of sound by tubes. Another area in which the D10 with Topkit reminds me of tubes is its portrayal of highs. Even when the highs may be more prominent than desired, they are less likely to reach a harsh or strident tone - presented, rather, with a bit of rounding in tone when they reach higher levels. At lower levels, however, the highs sound, to me, as if they are left alone. Again, this graceful treatment of high levels of sounds reminds me of how tubes perform. But, overall, I would not say that the D10 with Topkit sounds "tubey". I'd say that it sounds more natural or lifelike (and satisfying or engaging) than stock. An early sign of this was when I wanted a "quick listen" just after installing the Topkit to ensure that I hadn't messed up anything in the installation. It wasn't until the end of the 2nd 6-7 minute track that I even came back up for air to realize that I'd been sitting there engrossed in listening. Right from the start, it has been that inviting and engaging to my ear.
*5)* There's lots of lovely detail in the sound throughout the acoustic spectrum, AND an open, relaxing, credible naturalness to the sound overall.

 From my experience opamp rolling with AD chips, it's taken the chips (and/or my ears) from 8 - 30 hours of use before I would say that I've fully heard what they can do. So far, the changes have all been of the kind of showing more clearly what has been there from the start. So, at this point, I'm expecting more improvements along the lines of what I've already heard.

 And here we have it: a report from another Head-Fier that the Topkit, for me, is well worth having gotten and installed it. Many thanks to HiFlight for his willingness, even more than that, his alacrity, in making it available to those of us who have not tooled and skilled up so as to be able to provide these chips properly mounted onto adapters for ourselves. BTW, I was enjoying the stock D10 more than I thought I would, after reading all of the well-expressed and positive reviews and impressions of it. The Topkit makes it that much better. I originally bought the D10 as a DAC for my SR-71A. It will be functioning in that capacity on a regular basis. The D10, with the Topkit installed, will also be used as my DAC/Amp on a regular basis as well, when its particular presentation of sound better suits my mood-for-the-day.

 It'll be interesting when I get around to feeding an Optical Digital signal into the D10 with Topkit.


----------



## hvu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadDoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the info. I am running the AD8656 Opamp and stock buffers. I was told that without the buffer I would get less power/volume. Have you had any trouble achieving your desired volume? Did you try the HD650s with the stock opamp too? Ant any rate, I'm going to pull the buffers now and find out what it is like on my HD650s!

 edit: bypassed buffers with the AD8656 is working well, lots of volume. First impression is that it has everything the stock buffers with AD8656 had, except maybe a touch more soundstage. I'll let it work in for a few days and see what I think, plus I have the Westone 3 to try out when I am at school._

 

I have not tried the AD8656 with stock buffers but I will give that a try once I get a day or two of listening to my current setup. 

 For me I don't listen to music to loud since I already kill my ears with my car stereo but the stock opamp and buffer(AD4841-2/AD8532) did feel like it was lacking in power at times with certain songs. 
 You may want to look into how much power each opamp supplies because from what I got from Hi Flight is the stock opamp and buffers (AD4841-2/AD8532) only supply 120ma while the AD8656 with out buffers supplies 220ma or 250ma I believe so there is your power difference.

 Another setup a senior member suggested was the stock opamp (AD4841-2) with the AD8656 as buffers.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I installed the Topkit (after using the D10 stock for a few days). I've been listening using D10 with the Topkit in place for about 8-10 hours at this point, and here are my impressions of the differences the Topkit makes over stock:

 ...*4)* I won't say that the sound with the Topkit is "tubey". I will say that, even with the PK1, that ambient bass sounds like the heat lines rising from a warm road look - clear, with a slow undulation to it, as though it were an intoxiating fragrance or vapor..._

 

_The only fragrance or vapor I get from the heatlines rising from a warm road is the smell of roadkill_





 Seriously, excellent impression. It makes me look forward to getting my topkit! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## HeadDoc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have not tried the AD8656 with stock buffers but I will give that a try once I get a day or two of listening to my current setup. 

 For me I don't listen to music to loud since I already kill my ears with my car stereo but the stock opamp and buffer(AD4841-2/AD8532) did feel like it was lacking in power at times with certain songs. 
 You may want to look into how much power each opamp supplies because from what I got from Hi Flight is the stock opamp and buffers (AD4841-2/AD8532) only supply 120ma while the AD8656 with out buffers supplies 220ma or 250ma I believe so there is your power difference.

 Another setup a senior member suggested was the stock opamp (AD4841-2) with the AD8656 as buffers._

 

I did try the Stock Opamp with AD8656 buffers and though that the bass was muddy. So much so that I swapped it out within hours and was much more pleased with AD8656 Opamp and stock buffers.


----------



## hvu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadDoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did try the Stock Opamp with AD8656 buffers and though that the bass was muddy. So much so that I swapped it out within hours and was much more pleased with AD8656 Opamp and stock buffers._

 

Hmm that sounds interesting I post my thoughts once I get to that setup.

 On a separate matter is there a proper amount of time for a opamp and buffers to burn-in or does the time vary between each setup?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm that sounds interesting I post my thoughts once I get to that setup.

 On a separate matter is there a proper amount of time for a opamp and buffers to burn-in or does the time vary between each setup?_

 

I have noticed little, if any, difference in sound that I could attribute to opamp/buffer "burn-in".


----------



## qusp

yeah I wondered about that as well, but I have not experienced anything in the way of setbacks regarding burn-in when swapping out opamps for fresh ones (which is often)


----------



## sbulack

It all started out innocently enough with my wanting to try Optical Digital Input into the D10 with the Topkit installed. The degree to which dynamic depth, spectral fullness and timbral richness were all improved gave me the idea, pretty quickly, to switch from the Yuin PK1 buds to a set of full-sized Grados. So, I switched to my ALO-modded SR225, with Becote hardwood cups and 18AWG Jena Labs Ultra Cryo cable. Holy Moly, now we're talking desktop rig listening experience here. I had a lot fun playing some 24-bit/48 kHz sampling rate tracks that I downloaded from the Society of Sound to hear the boatloads of fine and subtle details. When I noticed that the D10 was kicking out loads of lovely current to these Grados, allowing the sound to unfold and release from them in the loveliest ways, I switched to time-tested lyrical Goth, Dream Pop and Rock albums involving really competent vocals with swirling guitars and epically swelling bass lines. WOWOWOW!!!!! When Concrete Blonde, The Cocteau Twins, Throwing Muses, Love Spirals Downwards and The Verve, to name a few, are let loose on this rig, well, it's not often I sit this rapt just allowing the harmonic loveliness to wash over me, refreshing me down to my innermost being. This rig also excels at intimate vocals with Jazz ensembles (Holly Cole's "Temptation" or "Dominoes" by Julianna Raye) and the far-flung imageries painted with fully electronically designed and created sounds (Tomita's "The Tomita Planets" or "Implant" by Eat Static, anyone?).

 I'm sure that I'll find other noteworthy combinations (which I'll drop a note in this thread about). But, for now, this one deserves a mention as being notably wonderful, to my ear at least.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It all started out innocently enough with my wanting to try Optical Digital Input into the D10 with the Topkit installed. The degree to which dynamic depth, spectral fullness and timbral richness were all improved gave me the idea, pretty quickly, to switch from the Yuin PK1 buds to a set of full-sized Grados. So, I switched to my ALO-modded SR225, with Becote hardwood cups and 18AWG Jena Labs Ultra Cryo cable. Holy Moly, now we're talking desktop rig listening experience here. I had a lot fun playing some 24-bit/48 kHz sampling rate tracks that I downloaded from the Society of Sound to hear the boatloads of fine and subtle details. When I noticed that the D10 was kicking out loads of lovely current to these Grados, allowing the sound to unfold and release from them in the loveliest ways, I switched to time-tested lyrical Goth, Dream Pop and Rock albums involving really competent vocals with swirling guitars and epically swelling bass lines. WOWOWOW!!!!! When Concrete Blonde, The Cocteau Twins, Throwing Muses, Love Spirals Downwards and The Verve, to name a few, are let loose on this rig, well, it's not often I sit this rapt just allowing the harmonic loveliness to wash over me, refreshing me down to my innermost being. This rig also excels at intimate vocals with Jazz ensembles (Holly Cole's "Temptation" or "Dominoes" by Julianna Raye) and the far-flung imageries painted with fully electronically designed and created sounds (Tomita's "The Tomita Planets" or "Implant" by Eat Static, anyone?).

 I'm sure that I'll find other noteworthy combinations (which I'll drop a note in this thread about). But, for now, this one deserves a mention as being notably wonderful, to my ear at least._

 

Very good news !!

 I have received my D10 today and if I am lucky, I will receive my Topkit later this week. I hope that this setup will be good for my Grado HF-2.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very good news !!
 I have received my D10 today and if I am lucky, I will receive my Topkit later this week. I hope that this setup will be good for my Grado HF-2._

 

Me too. I've pre-ordered an HF-2, and I'm hoping that this rig will enable it to really shine! Just to keep my ears honest, I've put my ALO-modded SR225 on the Purity Audio Calliente in my Computer Rig. There's more dynamic depth and really fine low-level subtlety with the Caliente - but not the same degree of harmonic loveliness to the instrumental timbres as with the D10 / Topkit / Optical Digital Input. Music with the Caliente is a bit more toward the feeding and enrichment of the mind. Music with the D10 is more toward the washing clean and refreshment of the innermost being. There is definitely room for both flavors of listening in my enjoyment of music.


----------



## HiFlight

I have just happened across a combination that makes the AD743/AD8616 pale in comparison!!! 

 OPB699 in LR, LMT6694 buffers. Almost too good to be true!


----------



## charlie0904

P3+ is out.... with some cool opamps too !!


----------



## mrarroyo

Ron we need to talk, your research is causing lots of wallets to expire. But don't stop. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 On a serious note send me a PM we should try to get together to listen to some of your new toys. Perhaps Rob could join us.


----------



## HiFlight

Deleted


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just happened across a combination that makes the AD743/AD8616 pale in comparison!!! 

 OPB699 in LR, LMT6694 buffers. Almost too good to be true!_

 

Things too good to be true usually are!! Just kidding, guys!!!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just happened across a combination that makes the AD743/AD8616 pale in comparison!!! 

 OPB699 in LR, LMT6694 buffers. Almost too good to be true!_

 

You know I'm gonna want to try it!


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know I'm gonna want to try it!_

 

Larry...
 Read post 2190 for details!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

we're past april fools...


----------



## jamato8

Well we are past April.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Things too good to be true usually are!! Just kidding, guys!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

How I wish that the discovery is true! Sigh.


----------



## webbie64

No, I'm sure there's a new Chinese start-up opamp company that's doing replica AD743s and calling them OPB699s. Same with the 8616s being called LMT6694s.

 I'm _sure_ of it.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_we're past april fools..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well we are past April._

 

ROTFLMAO!!!!! You guys are killing me!

 If I take HeadphoneAddict's statement in one of the senses which COULD be implied by jamato8's post: that being Audiophools, we're WAY past being April fools, then I'm rolling on the floor, laughing until my sides ache. I find this so funny because I myself saw HiFlight's "just kidding" post when I logged back into Head-Fi intending to send HiFlight a PM to request the newly discovered chip kit, which I ended up not sending afterall. Like GreenLeo, I, too, SO wish that HiFlight's discovery were true! (psssst! Ron!!! If you're really into something here, shoot me a PM or email, OK???)

 Like HPA (the abbreviation of HeadphoneAddict so well known as to be practically protected by copyright or trademark laws), I've never had so much fun as I've been having over the past 5-6 years finding new and ever-more-convenient ways to surround myself with great headphone sound. Speaking solely for myself, now, I've also never run so many of so many kinds of cables around my home and work offices, or balanced so many small boxes on little pieces of black rubbery stuff, or had so many of so many kinds of rechargeable batteries stored in so many places where I work and live, with batteries queued on both sides of multiple chargers, before. Not to mention (which, of course, I'm mentioning) the boxes of tubes and all of the opamps and wall-warts/PSU's (stock and after-market) left over from amps that I've owned and sold off or given away. And I'm not even into (solder-involving) DIY (yet). Although I DO own and use both a really geeky-cool, huge, retro-looking analog VOM and several smaller, more convenient DMM's.

 So when, in response to HPA's, "we're past april fools" I read jamato8's reply, "well, we are past April", that was just too good a laugh not to share.


----------



## ztsen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Things too good to be true usually are!! Just kidding, guys!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 



 =.=' [Almost pale, I just ordered Topkit]


----------



## Anouk

Hello everyone, I havent really been keeping up with this thread, or head-fi in general, lately. I am very satisfied with my iriver h120, ibasso d10 and ultrasone pro900 for in the library/on the road, i still want a different cable for the pro9800 (more lightweight, small and compact and with a small 3.5mm plug) but I am very happy with my portable situation at this time.
 I was also extremely happy with my at home setup but unfortunately my amp gave up the ghost yesterday evening and I have to send it back to the usa which will mean a month without audio, at least speaker audio, at home. I still have the ibasso d10 of course, luckily, but I do not like listening to headphones 16 hours of the day and I am not always very close to the computer and I simply cant do much without music as a constant background. I use my computer for all the audio related stuff at home. I was thinking of getting a 3.5mm to rca adapter and connecting my ibasso to my power amp but I am not sure if this is a very good idea.
 I would hate to either blow my ibasso, the power amp or the speakers. My amp is a primare 31.2 poweramp, so no preamp functionality that outputs 2x120 watt at 8 ohm. My speakers are the audio physic yara ii classic. I guess I would put the adapter into the headphone output of the ibasso and use it at low gain. 
 Can someone tell me if this will work/is advicable?
 Thanks in advance,
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## jingles_97

I would not try it. Headphone outputs are designed for the impedance for a typical set of headphone which is usually 30 ohms and up. I checked the input impedance on your amp which is listed at 10 ohms, which will draw too much current from your 
 D10, and probably damage it.


----------



## jingles_97

double post deleted.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jingles_97* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would not try it. Headphone outputs are designed for the impedance for a typical set of headphone which is usually 30 ohms and up. I checked the input impedance on your amp which is listed at 10 ohms, which will draw too much current from your 
 D10, and probably damage it._

 

Are you sure that isn't 10 Kohm ?

 I think it should be okay. I used my Pico DAC/amp as a preamp to my Woo GES and other full size amps for a year with no problem.


----------



## jingles_97

This was the spec listed here
Primare A 31.2
 in hindsight it is most likely a misprint, for it is too low of a figure.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, I am afraid though that the volume, even at low gain might be pretty high, and there might be a volume imbalance too.
 I will try it though, 
 Thanks for the help
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webbie64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I'm sure there's a new Chinese start-up opamp company that's doing replica AD743s and calling them OPB699s. Same with the 8616s being called LMT6694s.

 I'm sure of it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Can we request iBasso to include these chips in the opam rolling kits supplied with the D10? 

 April is coming, again
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_..... April is coming, again
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

The name of the company that makes the Stello DA100 DAC is April Music Inc. And May is nearly over (CanJam 2009, and HF-2 unveiling, here we come!!!) Looks like an interesting June is on its way.

 Oh NO!!! It can't be!! We're caught in a Repeating Time Loop and .........
 Aiiiiiieeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!! After May, April really IS coming again!


----------



## itsjustwood

i dont mean to double post...but can the d10 run the senn hd650...thanks guys...i'm in the market for a good amp $250-$500


----------



## HiFlight

Anouk...
 I can't see how you would hurt any of your components if you start with the D10 volume at minimum with low gain , then raise the volume enough to the desired output thru your amp and speakers. 

 To be on the safe side to begin, I would also suggest inputting your H120 to the D10 with the H120 volume set at about half volume, like about a -17 or so. 

 Let us know how it works out for you. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello everyone, I havent really been keeping up with this thread, or head-fi in general, lately. I am very satisfied with my iriver h120, ibasso d10 and ultrasone pro900 for in the library/on the road, i still want a different cable for the pro9800 (more lightweight, small and compact and with a small 3.5mm plug) but I am very happy with my portable situation at this time.
 I was also extremely happy with my at home setup but unfortunately my amp gave up the ghost yesterday evening and I have to send it back to the usa which will mean a month without audio, at least speaker audio, at home. I still have the ibasso d10 of course, luckily, but I do not like listening to headphones 16 hours of the day and I am not always very close to the computer and I simply cant do much without music as a constant background. I use my computer for all the audio related stuff at home. I was thinking of getting a 3.5mm to rca adapter and connecting my ibasso to my power amp but I am not sure if this is a very good idea.
 I would hate to either blow my ibasso, the power amp or the speakers. My amp is a primare 31.2 poweramp, so no preamp functionality that outputs 2x120 watt at 8 ohm. My speakers are the audio physic yara ii classic. I guess I would put the adapter into the headphone output of the ibasso and use it at low gain. 
 Can someone tell me if this will work/is advicable?
 Thanks in advance,
 Greetings, Anouk,_


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsjustwood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i dont mean to double post...but can the d10 run the senn hd650...thanks guys...i'm in the market for a good amp $250-$500_

 

It runs mine pretty good (I'm demo-ing some 650s)...but it lacks a tiny bit in the oomph department.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsjustwood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i dont mean to double post...but can the d10 run the senn hd650...thanks guys...i'm in the market for a good amp $250-$500_

 

It depends on what you mean by "run". I'm sitting here right now listening using a D10 with the Topkit (743/8616) installed being fed .wav files via its USB input, through HD650. It's the same album I've been listening to most of the night using a Purity Audio Caliente(my personal favorite amp with HD650) through HD650. The album is "Ultrashiver" by The Secret Meeting - a collaborative project between Collide and Dean Garcia of Curve. With the D10 on low gain, with the volume pot at about 2 O'Clock, there's as much volume as I want, and plenty of really enjoyable sound quality: good spectral balance, decent-sized and reasonably credible soundstage, good dynamic depth and range, a fine level of detail and subtlety. By "run", if you mean, listen using HD650 with a good deal of enjoyment, then yes. If by "run", you mean to drive the HD650 to sound pretty much as good as they can sound, then I'd have to say no. The HD650 sound a good deal better with the Caliente, where the soundstage is larger and more credible, the dynamic depth and range deeper and wider, the level of detail and subtlety not only more detailed and subtle, but overall more credibly real-sounding as well. With the D10, there's a slightly tinny aura around quite a few sounds from the HD650, including, unfortunately, the vocals. And it really is slight. I only notice it compared to the sound I was just getting from the HD650 with the Caliente. And please don't get me wrong, there's plenty of audio goodness here with the D10 to be enjoyed. But this is not as good as the HD650 can sound. And the slightly tinny edge I mentioned can be reduced by turning the volume down - at the cost of a little of the timbral richness and spectral fullness - it's a trade-off, and it's really not the fault of the HD650 - these phones can do better than this with this particular music. And the relatively modestly priced Caliente is what provides that better reference sound with the HD650 which enables me to say that. Now, if you were looking for an amp for your Grados, I'd be reporting things in the other direction compared to the Caliente, with the D10 providing the better drive, IMO. But not for the HD650. Not to my ears, anyway.
 So, to wrap up, yes, the D10 with Topkit can drive the HD650 to provide a lot of listening enjoyment. It's not a particularly great match of an amp for this phone, though (IMO), and the HD650 can perform a good bit better than with the D10.

 To put the comparison between the D10 and the Caliente on a fairer footing, I switched over to feeding the D10 .wav files through its Optical Digital input. It's an almost identical volume level: on low gain and the pot at 2 O'Clock, the volume is right where I want it. The unnatural faint tinny aura is noticeably less present than with USB input, but still there. And the dynamic depth is improved nicely relative to USB. But the vocals are not spookily present-sounding, and the authority of the larger and more prominent sounds is not there to the degree that it is with the Caliente. My overall opinion of the pairing of the D10 with the HD650 is basically unchanged, although the sound quality is improved, using the Optical Digital vs the USB input on the D10. Very enjoyable, but not what the 650 are capable of in the hands of the Caliente, a slightly higher-priced and wall-powered desktop amp. If the cost of the Topkit is added in, then the D10 and the Caliente are pretty similar in price. The D10 is battery-powered and portable while the Caliente is wall-powered and stationary.

 Anyone else who has the D10 and HD650 who thinks I'm being unfair to the performance of the D10 paired with the 650, admittedly based on a comparison to the performance of the phone with a similarly-priced stationary amp, please offer your differing observations and assessment of their performance together.


----------



## x3sphere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsjustwood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i dont mean to double post...but can the d10 run the senn hd650...thanks guys...i'm in the market for a good amp $250-$500_

 

Yes it will power the HD650s just fine, I listen to mine through the D10 all day, sounds amazing. But to be honest, it will not drive them to their full potential. To get that last 10% you're going to have to shell out for a home amp.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends on what you mean by "run". I'm sitting here right now listening using a D10 with the Topkit (743/8616) installed being fed .wav files via its USB input, through HD650. It's the same album I've been listening to most of the night using a Purity Audio Caliente(my personal favorite amp with HD650) through HD650. The album is "Ultrashiver" by The Secret Meeting - a collaborative project between Collide and Dean Garcia of Curve. With the D10 on low gain, with the volume pot at about 2 O'Clock, there's as much volume as I want, and plenty of really enjoyable sound quality: good spectral balance, decent-sized and reasonably credible soundstage, good dynamic depth and range, a fine level of detail and subtlety. By "run", if you mean, listen using HD650 with a good deal of enjoyment, then yes. If by "run", you mean to drive the HD650 to sound pretty much as good as they can sound, then I'd have to say no. The HD650 sound a good deal better with the Caliente, where the soundstage is larger and more credible, the dynamic depth and range deeper and wider, the level of detail and subtlety not only more detailed and subtle, but overall more credibly real-sounding as well. With the D10, there's a slightly tinny aura around quite a few sounds from the HD650, including, unfortunately, the vocals. And it really is slight. I only notice it compared to the sound I was just getting from the HD650 with the Caliente. And please don't get me wrong, there's plenty of audio goodness here with the D10 to be enjoyed. But this is not as good as the HD650 can sound. And the slightly tinny edge I mentioned can be reduced by turning the volume down - at the cost of a little of the timbral richness and spectral fullness - it's a trade-off, and it's really not the fault of the HD650 - these phones can do better than this with this particular music. And the relatively modestly priced Caliente is what provides that better reference sound with the HD650 which enables me to say that. Now, if you were looking for an amp for your Grados, I'd be reporting things in the other direction compared to the Caliente, with the D10 providing the better drive, IMO. But not for the HD650. Not to my ears, anyway.
 So, to wrap up, yes, the D10 with Topkit can drive the HD650 to provide a lot of listening enjoyment. It's not a particularly great match of an amp for this phone, though (IMO), and the HD650 can perform a good bit better than with the D10.

 To put the comparison between the D10 and the Caliente on a fairer footing, I switched over to feeding the D10 .wav files through its Optical Digital input. It's an almost identical volume level: on low gain and the pot at 2 O'Clock, the volume is right where I want it. The unnatural faint tinny aura is noticeably less present than with USB input, but still there. And the dynamic depth is improved nicely relative to USB. But the vocals are not spookily present-sounding, and the authority of the larger and more prominent sounds is not there to the degree that it is with the Caliente. My overall opinion of the pairing of the D10 with the HD650 is basically unchanged, although the sound quality is improved, using the Optical Digital vs the USB input on the D10. Very enjoyable, but not what the 650 are capable of in the hands of the Caliente, a slightly higher-priced and wall-powered desktop amp. If the cost of the Topkit is added in, then the D10 and the Caliente are pretty similar in price. The D10 is battery-powered and portable while the Caliente is wall-powered and stationary.

 Anyone else who has the D10 and HD650 who thinks I'm being unfair to the performance of the D10 paired with the 650, admittedly based on a comparison to the performance of the phone with a similarly-priced stationary amp, please offer your differing observations and assessment of their performance together._

 

If you ever upgrade your ears, please sell me your current ones. 
 *curses his concert-loving tinnitus-having self*


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you ever upgrade your ears, please sell me your current ones. 
 *curses his concert-loving tinnitus-having self*_

 

So sorry about your hearing loss. Upgrades for ears. The day will come. When the time comes that I'm about to list my ears on the FS Forum, I'll give you advance notice by PM.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends on what you mean by "run". I'm sitting here right now listening using a D10 with the Topkit (743/8616) installed being fed .wav files via its USB input, through HD650. It's the same album I've been listening to most of the night using a Purity Audio Caliente(my personal favorite amp with HD650) through HD650. The album is "Ultrashiver" by The Secret Meeting - a collaborative project between Collide and Dean Garcia of Curve. With the D10 on low gain, with the volume pot at about 2 O'Clock, there's as much volume as I want, and plenty of really enjoyable sound quality: good spectral balance, decent-sized and reasonably credible soundstage, good dynamic depth and range, a fine level of detail and subtlety. By "run", if you mean, listen using HD650 with a good deal of enjoyment, then yes. If by "run", you mean to drive the HD650 to sound pretty much as good as they can sound, then I'd have to say no. The HD650 sound a good deal better with the Caliente, where the soundstage is larger and more credible, the dynamic depth and range deeper and wider, the level of detail and subtlety not only more detailed and subtle, but overall more credibly real-sounding as well. With the D10, there's a slightly tinny aura around quite a few sounds from the HD650, including, unfortunately, the vocals. And it really is slight. I only notice it compared to the sound I was just getting from the HD650 with the Caliente. And please don't get me wrong, there's plenty of audio goodness here with the D10 to be enjoyed. But this is not as good as the HD650 can sound. And the slightly tinny edge I mentioned can be reduced by turning the volume down - at the cost of a little of the timbral richness and spectral fullness - it's a trade-off, and it's really not the fault of the HD650 - these phones can do better than this with this particular music. And the relatively modestly priced Caliente is what provides that better reference sound with the HD650 which enables me to say that. Now, if you were looking for an amp for your Grados, I'd be reporting things in the other direction compared to the Caliente, with the D10 providing the better drive, IMO. But not for the HD650. Not to my ears, anyway.
 So, to wrap up, yes, the D10 with Topkit can drive the HD650 to provide a lot of listening enjoyment. It's not a particularly great match of an amp for this phone, though (IMO), and the HD650 can perform a good bit better than with the D10.

 To put the comparison between the D10 and the Caliente on a fairer footing, I switched over to feeding the D10 .wav files through its Optical Digital input. It's an almost identical volume level: on low gain and the pot at 2 O'Clock, the volume is right where I want it. The unnatural faint tinny aura is noticeably less present than with USB input, but still there. And the dynamic depth is improved nicely relative to USB. But the vocals are not spookily present-sounding, and the authority of the larger and more prominent sounds is not there to the degree that it is with the Caliente. My overall opinion of the pairing of the D10 with the HD650 is basically unchanged, although the sound quality is improved, using the Optical Digital vs the USB input on the D10. Very enjoyable, but not what the 650 are capable of in the hands of the Caliente, a slightly higher-priced and wall-powered desktop amp. If the cost of the Topkit is added in, then the D10 and the Caliente are pretty similar in price. The D10 is battery-powered and portable while the Caliente is wall-powered and stationary.

 Anyone else who has the D10 and HD650 who thinks I'm being unfair to the performance of the D10 paired with the 650, admittedly based on a comparison to the performance of the phone with a similarly-priced stationary amp, please offer your differing observations and assessment of their performance together._

 

I have nothing to contradict what you are saying when I am using my HD600 with D10 and "topkit", except that the tinny quality is not there for me. However, I am using the less demanding HD600 (every time I get an HD650 I sell it soon after). The sound is very nice, to a point.

 Nevertheless, tonight with the HD600 I am finding that desktop amps like Grahm Slee Solo SRG, Single Power Square Wave XL and Woo WA6 all sound better with the HD600 than any of my portable amps (I have been comparing the amps tonight as part of an evaluation of the Solo). Still, many portable amps have nice sound quality with the HD600 but ultimately they lack the power, refinement and performance of the desktop amps. (I should add that battery powered amps like the 3MOVE, Vivid V1, or Amphora do seem to have more power for HD600 than many others, and do very well with the HD600)


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsjustwood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i dont mean to double post...but can the d10 run the senn hd650...thanks guys...i'm in the market for a good amp $250-$500_

 

Something else just came to me that I hadn't thought of in my previous post, which is that the Topkit may not optimize the performance of the D10 with HD650 - although the Topkit improves the D10 performance with my Grados and Yuin PK1 to a really noticeable and very much appreciated degree.
 With other opamps and buffers, its possible that my opinion of the performance of the D10 with HD650 could improve considerably. I haven't had the D10 long enough to have explored those possibilities.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, I am reading the manual for my power amplifier now, according to the manual the imput impedance is
 Input impedance 11kO
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, I am reading the manual for my power amplifier now, according to the manual the imput impedance is
 Input impedance 11kO
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

That's what I thought (see above). So, you should be fine.


----------



## Papa Sun

While on the subject – which headphones, earphones and IEM's would you all consider a "good match" with the D10, and different op-amp kits?

 I'm thinking in terms of both portability (PFE, IE8, ES7, CK7?) and desktop listening (K400, K601, HA-RX900?), as well as musicality.

 I remember the IE8 being particularly praised in the thread, but what about big cans?

 Suggestions, thoughts, ideas?


----------



## LeeSC

I have just rolled in the "topkit". The sound and soundstage are very pleasing. However, my right channel is very soft compared to the left channel. I also hear a lot of distortions when the volume was turned up. Can someone tell me what might have gone wrong here?

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just rolled in the "topkit". The sound and soundstage are very pleasing. However, my right channel is very soft compared to the left channel. I also hear a lot of distortions when the volume was turned up. Can someone tell me what might have gone wrong here?

 Thanks in advance._

 

I think one of your pins is not making good contact. I had an iBasso D1 that lost an insert inside one of the socket holes, and I had to cut a leg off of a dummy opamp and drop it into the hole to improve contact with the opamp's leg. It was behaving similarly to yours until I fixed the issue.


----------



## LeeSC

I just took the opamps and buffers out, checked through the pins and they looked okay to me. However, I did observed that one of the pin in the 743 is not soldered onto the board on the chip side. It seemed to be soldered lightly on the opposite side (bottom). I still have the same problem after inserting the chips back on. I also found the red LED flashing after and I plugged my D10 on the charger and did try to listen to it again with the charge mode on. I got the same problem.

 How can you tell if one of your pin has bad contact given that the space is so tide and there are two 743 squeezing in the little space at the same time.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Give the D10 a while to really get charged up. A weak battery could do it, and it may not respond right away to charging because the amp always runs off the battery, not the USB. USB charged the battery, not runs the amp, so it takes a while for the battery voltage to come up.


----------



## LeeSC

Thanks Larry, I will post the result so everyone knows in the future.


----------



## qusp

^^you would need a DMM to test continuity between the contact and the pin


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^you would need a DMM to test continuity between the contact and the pin_

 

I will see if the battery is the problem first. If problem persist, I will get my DMM out. Thanks.


----------



## itsjustwood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Something else just came to me that I hadn't thought of in my previous post, which is that the Topkit may not optimize the performance of the D10 with HD650 - although the Topkit improves the D10 performance with my Grados and Yuin PK1 to a really noticeable and very much appreciated degree.
 With other opamps and buffers, its possible that my opinion of the performance of the D10 with HD650 could improve considerably. I haven't had the D10 long enough to have explored those possibilities._

 

whats this topkit u speak of ...does it come with the d10 when u purchase it..thanks for the help


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsjustwood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_whats this topkit u speak of ...does it come with the d10 when u purchase it..thanks for the help_

 

Top Kit is HiFlight's set of opamps that he believes sounds best in the D10. But, as he says, others' ears may say differently.

 Unfortunately, it's not included 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Don't fret though, the D10 still is capable of sounding fantastic w/ the stock configuration or any number of other configs with the included extra opamps.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsjustwood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_whats this topkit u speak of ...does it come with the d10 when u purchase it..thanks for the help_

 

Grab your favorite beverage of choice and start reading this thread from the beginning. Seriously. It's the only way that any of the answers you receive will make sense.


----------



## itsjustwood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Top Kit is HiFlight's set of opamps that he believes sounds best in the D10. But, as he says, others' ears may say differently.

 Unfortunately, it's not included 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't fret though, the D10 still is capable of sounding fantastic w/ the stock configuration or any number of other configs with the included extra opamps._

 

thanks for the heads up clasam


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grab your favorite beverage of choice and start reading this thread from the beginning. Seriously. It's the only way that any of the answers you receive will make sense._


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^you would need a DMM to test continuity between the contact and the pin_

 

For continuity check, how do you know which leg of the chip goes with which socket pin?


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grab your favorite beverage of choice and start reading this thread from the beginning. Seriously. It's the only way that any of the answers you receive will make sense._

 

That's very true. I did it but it took very long time to finish all of the pages. Also, I keep reading some of the old pages as I can't remember all of them.


----------



## loofa

_The D10 is the real deal*[size=small]![/size]*_ 

 After purchasing another competing product and not being completely happy with the SQ, I bought a D10 to try. After listening to the D10 for only a minute it was very much apparent to me that it was in a sonically different league. No desire at the moment to try any different opamps (another good sign). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm using AKG K271 MKII phones with it.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *loofa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D10 is the real deal*[size=small]![/size]* 

 After purchasing another competing product and not being completely happy with the SQ, I bought a D10 to try. After listening to the D10 for only a minute it was very much apparent to me that it was in a sonically different league. No desire at the moment to try any different opamps (another good sign). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm using AKG K271 MKII phones with it._

 

Welcome to head-fi, and sorry about your wallet...


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Give the D10 a while to really get charged up. A weak battery could do it, and it may not respond right away to charging because the amp always runs off the battery, not the USB. USB charged the battery, not runs the amp, so it takes a while for the battery voltage to come up._

 

Yes, it was the flat battery problem. The battery had just enough charge to hold the front LED solid red before I rolled in the topkit. So when I powered up my D10 after rolling, I did not suspect the weak battery and I don’t think I saw the flashing red LED yet either. I thought if the battery is weak the two channels would have gone down (behaved) the same way and went flat together. I guess not.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Glad to hear it is sorted out. You are not the first person to have this problem with an amp and not realize it was the battery, so no harm done.


----------



## Anouk

Hi everyone, I am curious if anyone else has noticed the fact that the ibasso makes some kind of noise when it touches cables. I dont mean if it is connected but when it touches other usb cables for example I have to keep the ibasso lying on its own on the dek not touching anything else, and also make sure the headphone cable and the usb cable from the ibasso dont touch anything.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everyone, I am curious if anyone else has noticed the fact that the ibasso makes some kind of noise when it touches cables. I dont mean if it is connected but when it touches other usb cables for example I have to keep the ibasso lying on its own on the dek not touching anything else, and also make sure the headphone cable and the usb cable from the ibasso dont touch anything.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

I never noticed that happen. My iPhone will buzz it when it is too close.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everyone, I am curious if anyone else has noticed the fact that the ibasso makes some kind of noise when it touches cables. I dont mean if it is connected but when it touches other usb cables for example I have to keep the ibasso lying on its own on the dek not touching anything else, and also make sure the headphone cable and the usb cable from the ibasso dont touch anything.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

I haven't noticed this either, but maybe I haven't been paying attention...how loud is the noise?


----------



## Equus

I haven't heard any noises myself, except for the occasional static discharge into my ears because of the air conditioning here at work. There was some discussion about the RF shielding on the D10, and I imagine under the right circumstances and depending on the shielding on the cables you could have problems with electric fields that could cause interference.

 That said, I just tried wrapping my D10 with the USB cable that's feeding it from my laptop, and I didn't notice anything. Ditto when I used a Cowon D2 as a source then ActiveSynced my smartphone while the USB was looped around the D10.


----------



## sbulack

A Kimber USB cable that I had ordered from Headroom late last weekend arrived today. I'm using it right now with the D10 / Topkit and my ALO-modded SR225. It takes the spectral balance a step closer to perfect, with a richer, fuller mix of bass and mids with the truly lovely highs, and the dynamic depth an appreciable step toward the deeper end of the sonic pool. Timbre and tonality in this rig are a real treat for the ear. The D10 with the Topkit installed and the Kimber USB cable is giving me performance with these Grados that is getting me especially expectant as to what I might hear with the HF-2 I've got on order - just in time as the season starts (the warm part of spring through the summer and into the warm part of autumn) where my ears just can't get enough Grado in my listening - with the cooler part of the year being my Sennheiser-centric listening season. I also picked up a new Blue Jeans Cable Optical Digital cable for the D10 as well, so that I can conveniently route an optical digital connection to the D10 across my desk and not be very concerned about the Toslink cable. The one from BJC is a tough and conveniently flexible one having as its transmission medium a single Plastic Optical Fiber the size of the Toslink aperture, rather than a bundle of much thinner glass fibers. It's going to be a good D10 / Grado season in 2009. And to think that I originally bought the D10 almost exclusively for its ease of transport, and its multi-digital-input DAC. I'm getting good use from and really enjoying its amp as well.


----------



## lescanard

Wow...I promised myself I wouldn't post until I read every last page of this fantastic thread - just finished. Thanks to all for your insight and opinions. I started about 4 weeks ago deciding between a Pico or Predator - knowing I needed a quality Dac/Amp combo because I primarily listen from the Macbook and want a semi portable option (just to move around the house) - I tripped into this thread eventually and a week later ordered the d10...received it in about 5 days...have over 60 hours on it...ordered a sysconcept optical to mini cable from Joseph (still waiting for that - using a monster cable in the meantime)...and after all that can tell you not only am I happy and a bit more broke, but "THINK" I may have found my ideal setup for a while as I have been digging my listening experience quite deeply the last 2 weeks. I haven't rolled opamps yet and am fighting the urge even though I pull the little plastic box out and stare at it at least 5x a day...I'd almost call this more of a sickness than a hobby.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow...I promised myself I wouldn't post until I read every last page of this fantastic thread - just finished. Thanks to all for your insight and opinions. I started about 4 weeks ago deciding between a Pico or Predator - knowing I needed a quality Dac/Amp combo because I primarily listen from the Macbook and want a semi portable option (just to move around the house) - I tripped into this thread eventually and a week later ordered the d10...received it in about 5 days...have over 60 hours on it...ordered a sysconcept optical to mini cable from Joseph (still waiting for that - using a monster cable in the meantime)...and after all that can tell you not only am I happy and a bit more broke, but "THINK" I may have found my ideal setup for a while as I have been digging my listening experience quite deeply the last 2 weeks. I haven't rolled opamps yet and am fighting the urge even though I pull the little plastic box out and stare at it at least 5x a day...I'd almost call this more of a sickness than a hobby._

 

Welcome aboard, Lescanard. We finally got you here and sorry about your wallet -- don't worry, I'm the same.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_-snip-
 ...I'd almost call this more of a sickness than a hobby._

 

Sickness is WAY too soft of a term


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A Kimber USB cable that I had ordered from Headroom late last weekend arrived today. I'm using it right now with the D10 / Topkit and my ALO-modded SR225. It takes the spectral balance a step closer to perfect, with a richer, fuller mix of bass and mids with the truly lovely highs, and the dynamic depth an appreciable step toward the deeper end of the sonic pool. Timbre and tonality in this rig are a real treat for the ear. -snip-._

 

Sbulack, how does the Kimber cable compare vs other USB cables you've used? Can you tell the difference listening blind?


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I haven't rolled opamps yet and am fighting the urge even though I pull the little plastic box out and stare at it at least 5x a day...I'd almost call this more of a sickness than a hobby._

 

Same problem I had...I kept wondering what new wonders were waiting in all of those exotic alternatives. Rolling the D10 is even harder to jump into as it sounds great stock.

 Last night I installed a Hiflight topkit and listened with RS-1's for about an hour. It definitely sounds good. It's hard to go back and forth to compare, but it definitely has better detail according to my test tracks, and seems to have a nicely balanced full presentation. So far, I've been unable to put my finger on whether it has more or less soundstage than stock....but based on my listening so far....its staying in


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sbulack, how does the Kimber cable compare vs other USB cables you've used? Can you tell the difference listening blind?_

 

I don't know how well I can tell the difference blind. I've got to unplug a cable and plug in another (and watch what I'm doing plugging it in) I can't really do it myself blind, and I don't have someone convenient whose interested enough in audio to help me. So, I always know what I'm using when I listen.

 Here are the USB cables I've tried with the D10 and how they compare:
 Kimber 5-pin USB(A)-to-(miniB) > a 5-pin USB(A)-to-(miniB) that came with a Western Digital Passport external USB drive I bought > Monster High Performance 5-pin USB-to-miniB cable = stock D10 USB cable. I don't always hear worthwhile differences using different USB cables. I suspect that the differences I hear are due more to the difference in the gauge of power wire used than because of a difference in the data transmission wires (since it is transmitting digital data, the signal value of which only has to be on one side of a threshhold or the other). I don't know that for sure, it's just my guess because the differences I hear between USB cables are the same kinds of differences I hear when I make changes which affect the quality of power supplied to a rig.

 The main differences I hear in the sound from my D10 rig between using these cables when I indicate that I like one more than another are a)spectral balance, b)dynamic depth, c)timbral and tonal qualities (with richer and more real being preferred), d)openness of the sound.

 The Kimber USB cable is a pricey USB cable (though not as pricey as boutique hand-made ones), and the size of the differences between it and the stock cable are not as great as, say, those obtained by installing the D10 Topkit to replace the stock D10 opamp/buffers. The differences are worth to me what I paid for the Kimber cable.

 It'd be interesting to me to see what I'd prefer if I didn't know what I was using while listening. Maybe someday I'll have a local audio buddy with whom I can conveniently enough do single-blind testing.


----------



## jamato8

SysConcept has a new cable for the optical from the D10 to a iRiver H120 or H140. It takes quick angle out the back of each so it takes up very, very little room and allows for the use of the remote. There is a 24 hour lead time, which is still very fast, due to the total custom make and time for the epoxy to set up. The price is 59 dollars for this great little custom optical toslink to mini cable. Its a MiniTM.


----------



## immtbiker

Looks slightly primitive compared to their other wares.


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, most likely because it is the first one, which always seems to have rough edges. I know that working with this small stuff isn't easy and getting the optical cable formed with no loss in transmission quality is the key.


----------



## ztsen

I been lucky enough to get a 2 months old 2nd hand D10, 25% cheaper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Has been mixed and match around the stock opamp and look for a good match for my Denon D5000 (Makkl semi-mod). At the end, AD8656/AD708 bring out most balance sound. Whoever has mod their D5000 may give it a try.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SysConcept has a new cable for the optical from the D10 to a iRiver H120 or H140. It takes quick angle out the back of each so it takes up very, very little room and allows for the use of the remote. There is a 24 hour lead time, which is still very fast, due to the total custom make and time for the epoxy to set up. The price is 59 dollars for this great little custom optical toslink to mini cable. Its a MiniTM.




_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks slightly primitive compared to their other wares._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, most likely because it is the first one, which always seems to have rough edges. I know that working with this small stuff isn't easy and getting the optical cable formed with no loss in transmission quality is the key._

 

The fact that SysConcept has catered to such an small niche market speaks volumes of their service. Nice work if you ask me.


----------



## jamato8

I know of very few companies that would/will even bother. You are correct, catering to a small niche market with all of our peculiar needs, tastes, and or desires. :^) Seems more like Joseph is doing for the joy of the work. I mean he keeps coming up with these and I am sure he has many thing to do. I have dealt with him for about 6 or 7 years and he has always been the same. Very helpful and courteous, I have always found.


----------



## wolfen68

Spending a little more time with the AD743/AD8616 combo....

 The great D10 stock opamp synergy with my UE5c's is now gone when using this new combo. I'm now getting a LOT of hiss with these IEM's and the sound balance isn't as good as what I experienced with stock. I partially expected this as someone else had mentioned a hissing issue with this opamp set and IEM's....

 However, my IEM's are just a tool for isolation in need. The real goal is the best quality possible with RS-1's and PK-1's. On this front...all seems well so far.


----------



## jamato8

Yes I really like the stock opamp configuration. It has a very elusive quality. I like the Topkit also. It's nice to have these options.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Spending a little more time with the AD743/AD8616 combo....

 The great D10 stock opamp synergy with my UE5c's is now gone when using this new combo. I'm now getting a LOT of hiss with these IEM's and the sound balance isn't as good as what I experienced with stock. I partially expected this as someone else had mentioned a hissing issue with this opamp set and IEM's....

 However, my IEM's are just a tool for isolation in need. The real goal is the best quality possible with RS-1's and PK-1's. On this front...all seems well so far._

 

you might try the OPA2350 in place of the AD714 and jkeep the 8616 buffers from the topkit. sounds great with more sensitive IEMs


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The fact that SysConcept has catered to such an small niche market speaks volumes of their service. Nice work if you ask me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I wasn't putting down _any_ of Joseph's work. He is #1 in my book. I wish that all people that we deal with in life can be as accommodating as sysconcepts is.
 I was merely pointing out that this MiniTM is a bit primitive in it's early stages compared to all of his other works.


----------



## jamato8

I have noticed that as the Black Gates in my D10 mature more, as they take a long time to form, the sound has taken some interesting turns. The other day I thought an opamp had gone bad or a lead from one of the caps had come loose. The sound wasn't bad but a little hollow and lacked warmth. Having used Black Gates for a long time I know of the changes but this was a little different. I held back from doing any changes and waited. Sure enough after about 2 days the warmth (natural) came back and the hollow sound disappeared. The clarity is still in evidence, in spades and the entire sound spectrum is a delight. I look forward to see what iBasso has done with the P3+.


----------



## LeeSC

Good to hear that. I just ordered the Black Gate caps. and they are on the way here.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to hear that. I just ordered the Black Gate caps. and they are on the way here._

 

Can you share the spec of the Black Gates that you're ordering and where?




 Can I use the stock opamp with the 8616 buffer? Will it sound good?


----------



## LevA

hey all,

 Well I've finally had my D10 delivered (DHL stuff up!!..) and been burning it for ~40 hours or so. been listening to it through comp>USB>esw10's and have to say the sound is really nice and clean. initially it was a bit edgy and sharp on highs but have slowly smoothed out. The bass is pretty good but i'm hoping it will go just a bit deeper as it burns in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also got my LOD and optical from sys.concept (ordered 30cm cable and instead got a very short one..maybe about 3inch??. they must have read it wrong so I will see if I have to return it back without opening and trying it...means another 10 days before I get to try the optical..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 My only dissapointment so far has been the amp section through my ipod>LOD. to be honest I couldn't detect that much difference from directly listening from my ipod. Whereas the DAC/AMP difference is like night and day for me... I'm hoping with more burn the sound will get better..

 so for those of you with d10, what do you guys think about the amp with your DAPs?? (only the amp section, no DAC)


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...

 so for those of you with d10, what do you guys think about the amp with your DAPs?? (only the amp section, no DAC)_

 

I'm not a gold ear, I must say. Most of the time I listen to Lisa III and Move. The stock amp of the D10 is not as good. After using the topkit I feel that the amp sounds better but I never A/B compare them. This could be placebo effects.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not a gold ear, I must say. Most of the time I listen to Lisa III and Move. The stock amp of the D10 is not as good. After using the topkit I feel that the amp sounds better but I never A/B compare them. This could be placebo effects._

 

Yeah, i'm also considering getting the topkit to see if the sound will improve. In the meantime I will give some time for the amp to burn in more and see how it develops. to be honest it could be that i've been listening too much that I need to give some break before judging the amp again. 
 just can't help it coz the DAC/AMP combo sound is soooo good...


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, i'm also considering getting the topkit to see if the sound will improve. In the meantime I will give some time for the amp to burn in more and see how it develops. to be honest it could be that i've been listening too much that I need to give some break before judging the amp again. 
 just can't help it coz the DAC/AMP combo sound is soooo good...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

According to some headfiers in this thread, there is no burn in for op-amps. So you may jump start after your rest
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to some headfiers in this thread, there is no burn in for op-amps. So you may jump start after your rest
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

yeah, so I guess I should get cracking at ordering the topkit as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 actually to be honest I may have jumped the gun with my comment on the AMP section. Just got the LOD today, so maybe I should have done some more listening as I found out the amp is indeed pretty good. the problem was I was mainly listening to classical and I guess some are old recordings. strange though coz they really come to life with the DAC/AMp combo but not much on the AMP alone...but when I tried more recent recordings, especially jazz the AMP did make a noticeable difference...oh well, happy again..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now I just have to sit back and relax while this beauty is burning in more..


----------



## LevA

just wrote an email to sys.concept about the mix up with my cable. Joseph was great to deal with and told me he will ship the correct length straight away. great customer service...
 Also I get to keep the one he already sent so I just opened the package and hooked up my d10.....and....

 oh man, the sound from optical in is soooo sweet..!!..

 I......must.......find.....a....digital out DAP!!!!!....


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I wore out a higher end sysconcept.ca optical cable over an 18 month period, and Joseph is happy to replace it although it is out of warrantee. That is great service. I just have to find the time to mail it out, since I still have three other cables from him that work great.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wore out a higher end sysconcept.ca optical cable over an 18 month period, and Joseph is happy to replace it although it is out of warrantee. That is great service. I just have to find the time to mail it out, since I still have three other cables from him that work great._

 

How did you wear out a digital cable? Too much digital transmission and equate to too much bliss. Be careful. :^)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How did you wear out a digital cable? Too much digital transmission and equate to too much bliss. Be careful. :^)_

 

I had it stuffed inside a cubby/organizer on my bedside table with my H140 and Micro DAC, with a 90 degree bend too close to the connector.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had it stuffed inside a cubby/organizer on my bedside table with my H140 and Micro DAC, with a 90 degree bend too close to the connector._

 

Oh, I have done that but figured I had done the damage so I bought a new one.


----------



## YtseJamer

Larry, did you try the D10+Topkit with the Grado HF-2 ?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry, did you try the D10+Topkit with the Grado HF-2 ?_

 

I have not unpacked any of my portable amps except the P-51 with my iMod, and haven't even tried the HD800 on anything but desktop amps so far. Too much to do, not enough time. Once I'm back in a routine after the trip I will get started.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, I have done that but figured I had done the damage so I bought a new one._

 

Well, the bend in the cable wasn't any more than what I was doing with a U-turn on the shorter cables. And the short U-cables are all working.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the bend in the cable wasn't any more than what I was doing with a U-turn on the shorter cables. And the short U-cables are all working._

 

Probably a bad bit of plastic conductor, or something. It is nice he is replacing it for you. 

 Sure would have liked to have gotten to Can Jam. Decompressing yet? :^)


----------



## LevA

Hi,

 those of you who bought the Topkit, what chips come in the kit or how many chips does it include?? 

 Also will it make a difference if I use the apple earphones to burn in the D10 rather than my headphone?? I mean does lower impedence make a difference in the rate of burning in?? (I think the old ipod earphones I have are 8 ohms) 

 thanks


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 those of you who bought the Topkit, what chips come in the kit or how many chips does it include?? 
_

 


 The topkit is a AD743 assembly for the opamp, and two AD8616's for the buffers.

 As far as burning in, any headphone that provides a load will work towards burning in your amp....ipod buds included. As far as difference in the rate of burning in, I've never heard of people opting towards higher impedance cans to accelerate the burn-in process.


----------



## Bojamijams

I wonder.. why not use the AD843 which is already DIP8? Its rated as high as OPA627/637's (ie. tied for top contender)


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder.. why not use the AD843 which is already DIP8? Its rated as high as OPA627/637's (ie. tied for top contender)_

 

I find the AD843 to overemphasize mid-bass. IMO, the overall tonal balance and imaging of the 743 is better than the 843. Probably the AD843 would work better for rock genre than the 743, but for orchestral, vocals, acoustic genre's, I much prefer the AD743. Of course, as always, YMMV!


----------



## Fantoon

Hey, I have monitoring this thread and I was wondering why the optical in provides better sound than the usb in when the latter is converting usb into a S/PDIF signal.

 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Fantoon

Hey, I have monitoring this thread and I was wondering why the optical in provides better sound than the usb in when the latter is converting usb into a S/PDIF signal.

 Thanks in advance!


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The topkit is a AD743 assembly for the opamp, and two AD8616's for the buffers.

 As far as burning in, any headphone that provides a load will work towards burning in your amp....ipod buds included. As far as difference in the rate of burning in, I've never heard of people opting towards higher impedance cans to accelerate the burn-in process._

 

Thanks wolfen68.

 My main concern for ibuds was that it may not provide enough load and that I might damage a chip due to overheating while burning in. but if its safe I much prefer using some crappy ibud instead of stressing my proper headphones for long burn in process...


----------



## rRav3n

how long did it take to hear from ibasso after placing a order with them ... i not heard from then since placing my order on 1st june.
 thanks


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fantoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, I have monitoring this thread and I was wondering why the optical in provides better sound than the usb in when the latter is converting usb into a S/PDIF signal.

 Thanks in advance!_

 

Because the signal sent to optical gets decoded in a single step where as the usb signal has to get converted into digital signal in turn fed into the dac chip, if I am not mistaken. In other words less travel of the signal means better results. It could be very minute though.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rRav3n* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how long did it take to hear from ibasso after placing a order with them ... i not heard from then since placing my order on 1st june.
 thanks_

 

I received no email acknowledging the receipt of the order.
 It took about three days after my order on their website before I received an email from iBasso with the DHL tracking number of the shipped order. Four days later, it was delivered at my door.


----------



## rRav3n

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received no email acknowledging the receipt of the order.
 It took about three days after my order on their website before I received an email from iBasso with the DHL tracking number of the shipped order. Four days later, it was delivered at my door._

 

cool that sits my mind at ease then, thought maybe it hadnt gone through

 thanks


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks wolfen68.

 My main concern for ibuds was that it may not provide enough load and that I might damage a chip due to overheating while burning in. but if its safe I much prefer using some crappy ibud instead of stressing my proper headphones for long burn in process..._

 

FYI:
 According toHiFlight mentioned in an earlier post, there is no need to burn in for op-amps
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## GreenLeo

I've a silly question:

 Is the Coax input the same as the SPDIF input?


----------



## LevA

For those looking for camera case to fit Ipod and D10, the Canon Deluxe Soft Case PSC-100 fits perfectly. The main problem finding a case was the LOD, as the cable sticks out fair bit so either you have to get a bigger case than neede or find a case with a flip top that can be kept open. I'll include some photos so you can see better what I am talking about..
 It has a nice belt attachment and it opens by using 2 side zippers. with the lod you cant fully zip up as it pushes the lod but can zip almost all the way and it stays pretty secure..
 As a bonus, the case is pretty atractive in itself, with a nice leather touch. The RRP is around 30 dollars but I saw some on Amazon as low as 12~14 dollars so its a pretty good price for the quality case. 
 For those with IRiver, it might be just a tad too small as you will need to attach the optical cable at the back. So if you are interested I recommend trying it out to see if it fits ok. But for Ipod its a perfect fit ( with no ipod cover. if you have a thick cover it might put strain on the lod and might not be able to zip up too high.)


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've a silly question:

 Is the Coax input the same as the SPDIF input?_

 

They are one and the same.


----------



## jamato8

I received the latest creation from SysConcept the imaged optical cable here. It works great, takes up almost no room, the remote is not obstructed, and the iRiver H140 or H120 work with it. 

 I need to shoot an image of the one I got as it has no epoxy showing and the heat shrink around both ends is perfect. Who ever dreamed we could get custom service like this. 







 Previous cable with some epoxy showing. 






 SysConcept MiniOp cable, H140, D10 and P3+.






 The Stack


----------



## rhw

Looks fine, John.
 Unfortunately I do not need it.
 I see you use the "removeable" screws from the D3 on the front. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Btw. one more question to the black gate caps in your D10.
 You use 470uF and 220uF bgs, N or NX, i think.
 Will 6.3V be fine? (I think it is for the 5V power supply.)
 Or will 10V or 16V be better?

 Many thanks and best wishes

 Reiner

 +
 Nice photos
 even so I prefer your documentary pictures - these are incredible great


----------



## jamato8

The 6.3 volt is needed. Anything larger and the cap will not fit and the 6.3 volt fits the need. It is a very, very tight squeeze and you have to take down the ridges on the upper inside area where the caps are due to contact. Also the 220uf, which are forward of the 470uf, have to be shifted forward and the battery has to be moved over, which is easy.


----------



## rhw

Many thanks for the information.
 There are 4 power supply caps in the D10, 
 2*1500uF and 2*470uF.
 Are these for different sections (i.e. digital and analog)?
 If they are working all together, it might be enough to change the 470uF caps.
 (The 1500uF are already 105grade type, while the 470 are less resistant.)


----------



## Dublo7

Hey Jamato, have you tried the k701's with the D10? How does it drive?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dublo7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Jamato, have you tried the k701's with the D10? How does it drive?_

 

It drives them fine. It doesn't improve on the bass but the sound was open wit a large sound field.


----------



## shredder

D10 ordered and on the way.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...

 Btw. one more question to the black gate caps in your D10.
 You use 470uF and 220uF bgs, N or NX, i think.
 ..._

 

Can you tell me what's the meanings of bgs, N or NX?


----------



## GreenLeo

Hi Jamato,

 I see that you use the lineout of D10 to the P3+. Does it means that the P3+ sounds better than the D10 in terms of the amp performance?


----------



## Dublo7

I'm contemplating buying one of these. I'm not sure if the difference between the D2 Boa and the D10 would be obvious with my current set of earphones (I'd be using this exclusively as a USB-DAC/AMP).

 However, it may be good to upgrade to a D10, just in case I want to upgrade my headphones later on...


----------



## ztsen

Hi HiFlight, thanks for the topkit. Match well with my D5k.
 However, every time i turn on the D10, I can hear come low noise(like very very small wind sound kind of feel) but not with my K702. Is this normal? The topkit not that quiet as other opa?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dublo7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm contemplating buying one of these. I'm not sure if the difference between the D2 Boa and the D10 would be obvious with my current set of earphones (I'd be using this exclusively as a USB-DAC/AMP).

 However, it may be good to upgrade to a D10, just in case I want to upgrade my headphones later on..._

 

With the IEM and phones in your sig line, you will be able to appreciate the upgrade in sound as you spend time with them.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you tell me what's the meanings of bgs, N or NX?_

 

bgs - Black Gate Caps

 N, NX are different series

 from partsconnexion website:
_BLACK GATE - Electrolytics
 SERIES
 AC - non-polar, high-current, compact for loudspeaker cross-over applications
 C - polarized, coupling applications, compact, great value for money 
 FK / K / VK - highest technology polarized, rated up to 350V
 N - non-polar
 NH - non-polar, high voltage
 NX - highest technology non-polar 
 NOTE: Use N/NH/NX series in the most critical coupling and power supply applications_


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Jamato,

 I see that you use the lineout of D10 to the P3+. Does it means that the P3+ sounds better than the D10 in terms of the amp performance?_

 

There is a difference but not much. The D10 is a great amp and dac. With all the options of opamps, you can pretty much change the sound to what you want.

 The photo may be misleading as I have the P3+ in the chain to get an idea of its sound and to burn it in. It also gives me the ability to quickly change back and forth between the P3+ and the D10 amp section and frankly the D10 holds up very well. It is a top contender.

 Edit: I should state that there can be more difference due to the ability of the P3+ to run at a higher voltage and run many different configurations. The sound of the P3+ is excellent but I find the D10 to be no less appealing. I will be getting some new custom IEM's, which should allow me to discern even more differences between opamps and amps if they exist.


----------



## LevA

Is there anyone on this site who might install the BG caps for a fee?? or where would one take to get it done if one cannot do the soldering themselves? I would be interested in the future to swap to BG if it does make a difference in the sound quality..

 btw, reached 100+ hours in burn in and the sound is getting nicer and nicer. I'm curious to reach the 160+ hours to see if I get the same sound change others have reported with soundstage collapsing and becoming flat before it starts to improve again..

 Also did a battery rundown test and got about 23hrs before the power light started blinking, with stock op-amps running from my macbook optical out with esw10s and volume set at 10 o'clock position. quite happy with the result, and I expect to get 30+ using the Ipod>amp. Now if only my ipod could last that long....


----------



## R3SET

Is this DAC/AMP also a good choise for listening to my HD600 and IE8 from a PC? It will be used stationary, i have no intents to take the amp outside. Or is it better to use a full-size headphone amp? The D10 will be at the limit of my budget, other options are the Portable V1 USB DAC and Nuforce icon mobile, which are cheaper and fit my budget better.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *R3SET* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this DAC/AMP also a good choise for listening to my HD600 and IE8 from a PC? It will be used stationary, i have no intents to take the amp outside. Or is it better to use a full-size headphone amp? The D10 will be at the limit of my budget, other options are the Portable V1 USB DAC and Nuforce icon mobile, which are cheaper and fit my budget better._

 

A few people mentioned that the d10 drove Hd600 nicely but in your case if portability is not a factor full-size amp might be a better choice. I don't own HD600 though, so no first hand experience.

 You might also want to check out Audio gd-compass which I believe costs about the same (I think they had a promo price). It also allows different hdams that you can buy to change the SQ . there's a thread about it on the full-size amp section.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have nothing to contradict what you are saying when I am using my HD600 with D10 and "topkit", except that the tinny quality is not there for me. However, I am using the less demanding HD600 (every time I get an HD650 I sell it soon after). The sound is very nice, to a point.

 Nevertheless, tonight with the HD600 I am finding that desktop amps like Grahm Slee Solo SRG, Single Power Square Wave XL and Woo WA6 all sound better with the HD600 than any of my portable amps (I have been comparing the amps tonight as part of an evaluation of the Solo). Still, many portable amps have nice sound quality with the HD600 but ultimately they lack the power, refinement and performance of the desktop amps. (I should add that battery powered amps like the 3MOVE, Vivid V1, or Amphora do seem to have more power for HD600 than many others, and do very well with the HD600)_

 

here's something that headphoneaddict wrote about Hd600 earlier responding to someone about HD650 ......
 Post 2209 page 148 on this thread.


----------



## R3SET

Thanks a lot. But i doubt if i can run my IE8 from such a full-size amp?


----------



## HiFlight

The IE8s are very efficient IEMs, so there is no reason that you can't use any amp you wish to drive them, portable or full-sized.


----------



## R3SET

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The IE8s are very efficient IEMs, so there is no reason that you can't use any amp you wish to drive them, portable or full-sized._

 

What i heard, the synergy is very important with the IE8, and i heard the IBasso D10, Vivid Portable V1 and Nuforce Mobile had great synergy with the IE8. But i don't know how it pairs with any full-size headphone amp?

 Second point is that (some?) headphone amps can only work with headphones that have a minimum independence like 30 Ohms or so.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *R3SET* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this DAC/AMP also a good choise for listening to my HD600 and IE8 from a PC? It will be used stationary, i have no intents to take the amp outside. Or is it better to use a full-size headphone amp? The D10 will be at the limit of my budget, other options are the Portable V1 USB DAC and Nuforce icon mobile, which are cheaper and fit my budget better._

 

The portables sound good up to a certain point, usually at low to normal listening levels. The D10, like other portable amps, does run out of power sooner than I would like. The V1 and 3MOVE seem to have almost enough power to make me happy with HD600.

 The HiFiMan EF2 desktop DAC/amp tube hybrid would be a better choice for about $200. You have to email head-direct about it, as it was just introduced at CanJam and I am burning one in here at home for review. I posted my thoughts about the EF2 in the HD800 appreciation thread, and it is an impressive little desktop amp for the price. It would compare best with the head-direct EF1 amp for sound quality, with slightly less power than EF1, but with a nice DAC built-in. It is perfect for the HD600 and IE8, and just slightly bright with the HD800 and Grados when using the cheap chinese 6J1 tubes (NOS tubes on order). It uses the Burr Brown Japan PCM2702 DAC chip like the 3MOVE and XM5, which is pretty decent sounding with nice detail (beats an iPod).


----------



## pekingduck

Anyone using the D10 with the ER4s? Is the synergy between them good? I just ordered the D10 (not yet arrived) and am thinking about getting the ER4s for classical music (mainly orchestral works). Thanks


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pekingduck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone using the D10 with the ER4s? Is the synergy between them good? I just ordered the D10 (not yet arrived) and am thinking about getting the ER4s for classical music (mainly orchestral works). Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have, my source is an iHP-120 optically feeding the D10 or from my laptop through USB. I'm using the AD8656 opamp with stock buffers. I use lo-gain instead of hi.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_bgs - Black Gate Caps

 N, NX are different series

 from partsconnexion website:
BLACK GATE - Electrolytics
 SERIES
 AC - non-polar, high-current, compact for loudspeaker cross-over applications
 C - polarized, coupling applications, compact, great value for money 
 FK / K / VK - highest technology polarized, rated up to 350V
 N - non-polar
 NH - non-polar, high voltage
 NX - highest technology non-polar 
 NOTE: Use N/NH/NX series in the most critical coupling and power supply applications_

 

Thanks a lot, RHW! 

 So what we need is BG NX 220uF, 6.3V and BG NX 470uF, 6.3V for the mod, right?


----------



## rhw

Right


----------



## ztsen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree the D10 with a nice ipod, 256K or higher MP3 or lossless files, and a decent LOD can hold it's own with the best of them. Stock I think it sounds very similar to the RSA Predator, but with a better DAC.

 With the AD743/AD8616 it sounds even better and reminds me more of the RSA P-51 Mustang. I still have the AD743/AD8616 installed in my D10 right now, which works well with my IEM and full size headphones (although I do have a little more background hiss with my IEM). I have thought about swapping the OPA2350 back in for the synergy and black background with my Westone ES3X, but then it is not as good with my HD600 or IE8._

 



 Is that mean the AD743 will create hiss on low impedence iem or headphone?
 my um3x can really hear the hiss. the D5k can hear very little. only K702 will not.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ztsen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that mean the AD743 will create hiss on low impedence iem or headphone?
 my um3x can really hear the hiss. the D5k can hear very little. only K702 will not._

 

The actual impedance of a phone does not have as much to do with the hiss as does the sensitivity of the phones. The IE8 (124 dB/mW)and UM3X (125 dB/mW) are phones with extremely high sensitivity, and can reveal the noise floor of the amp when used with the AD743s (or other very wide bandwidth opamps). IEMs are more prone to hearing hiss in extremely sensitive transducers than are conventional phones due to the close proximity of the driver to the eardrum. 

 Generally, phones with sensitivities of less than 115-120 dB/mW will not hiss with the AD743s or other very revealing opamps. Much also depends upon the other components of the amp itself.


----------



## GreenLeo

I'm now using the OPA2350 and the 8616 buffer in D10 with ES3X and find hissing with null source input. Is this normal?


----------



## R3SET

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The portables sound good up to a certain point, usually at low to normal listening levels. The D10, like other portable amps, does run out of power sooner than I would like. The V1 and 3MOVE seem to have almost enough power to make me happy with HD600.

 The HiFiMan EF2 desktop DAC/amp tube hybrid would be a better choice for about $200. You have to email head-direct about it, as it was just introduced at CanJam and I am burning one in here at home for review. I posted my thoughts about the EF2 in the HD800 appreciation thread, and it is an impressive little desktop amp for the price. It would compare best with the head-direct EF1 amp for sound quality, with slightly less power than EF1, but with a nice DAC built-in. It is perfect for the HD600 and IE8, and just slightly bright with the HD800 and Grados when using the cheap chinese 6J1 tubes (NOS tubes on order). It uses the Burr Brown Japan PCM2702 DAC chip like the 3MOVE and XM5, which is pretty decent sounding with nice detail (beats an iPod)._

 

Thanks for all the feedback. I just ordered the V1. Should be good for my IE8 and HD600, at a fair price too.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm now using the OPA2350 and the 8616 buffer in D10 with ES3X and find hissing with null source input. Is this normal?_

 

You are the first to report hiss with OPA2350. Perhaps you need to use an inline attenuator similar to that included with W3.


----------



## jonathanjong

Can't remember if I've asked this before, but is this the cable I need to go between the D10 and a MacBook?

1M Toslink to Mini-plug M/M Fibre Optic Cable for sale - TradeMe.co.nz - New Zealand


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonathanjong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't remember if I've asked this before, but is this the cable I need to go between the D10 and a MacBook?

1M Toslink to Mini-plug M/M Fibre Optic Cable for sale - TradeMe.co.nz - New Zealand_

 

yes thats the one for macbook. Toslink attaches to your d10 and the mini plug is for your Macbook.


----------



## RASeymour

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pekingduck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone using the D10 with the ER4s? Is the synergy between them good? I just ordered the D10 (not yet arrived) and am thinking about getting the ER4s for classical music (mainly orchestral works). Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Yes, with my Sony PCDP and a optical out. Some classical but jazz really stands out.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ztsen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that mean the AD743 will create hiss on low impedence iem or headphone?
 my um3x can really hear the hiss. the D5k can hear very little. only K702 will not._

 

Yes - my ES3X have the most hiss with AD743 opamps in the D10, then my Livewires, then my W3, with the IE8 and Phonak the least hiss. It is not heard with full size cans. The level of hiss is similar to that of my ALO Amphora amp or Macbook Pro headphone out. Stock was silent, and OPA2350 opamp was silent.


----------



## Equus

Heh...what timing. I was about to pop on and see if the slight background hiss I hear was something wrong with the amp, something wrong with me, or all of the above. ^_^ I never really noticed it at all with my ESW9's until today, and I got far too little sleep so I wasn't trusting my ears 100%.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are the first to report hiss with OPA2350. Perhaps you need to use an inline attenuator similar to that included with W3._

 

Thanks for the reply Ron.

 Could it be that the OPA2350 I got is not of the highest quality? Let me clarify first: my OPA2350 IS NOT FROM RON (HiFlight). 

 Are the quality of all OPA2350 chips the same? Where can I buy the OPA2350 of the best quality?


----------



## jamato8

Is the hiss the same in both ears?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the reply Ron.

 Could it be that the OPA2350 I got is not of the highest quality? Let me clarify first: my OPA2350 IS NOT FROM RON (HiFlight). 

 Are the quality of all OPA2350 chips the same? Where can I buy the OPA2350 of the best quality?_

 

The only DIP version is the OPA2350PA. There should not be a difference in performance unless you got a counterfeit manufactured in China. If the opamp came from a source like DigiKey or other reputable parts suppliers, it should be genuine. I have never gotten any bad opamps from DigiKey. 

 It is very difficult to tell by looking whether they are genuine. I got couple of bogus AD743s and discovered that they would not work in the D10 and P3, whereas the genuines work fine. 

 Don't be concerned if you have to turn the amp up to a very high level with a muted input signal to hear the hiss. It is a problem only if it is apparent at normal listening volumes. 

 An inline attenuator, or volume control is effective for reducing hiss.


----------



## LevA

What setting should I put my Macbook pro for output??????

 I just opened the audio/midi setip and selected the output with my d10 connected..
 I have option for format 96000.0Hz and channel 2ch-24 bit. (also option for encoded digital audio for channel but not sure what that does...)

 is this the best option to leave it on? I understand normal cd quality will be 44100.0Hz....

 Also with the USB out I only get option for highest 48000.0Hz and 2ch-16 bit...

 thanks in advance...


----------



## pekingduck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have, my source is an iHP-120 optically feeding the D10 or from my laptop through USB. I'm using the AD8656 opamp with stock buffers. I use lo-gain instead of hi._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RASeymour* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, with my Sony PCDP and a optical out. Some classical but jazz really stands out._

 

Thanks...just placed an order..can't wait


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What setting should I put my Macbook pro for output??????

 I just opened the audio/midi setip and selected the output with my d10 connected..
 I have option for format 96000.0Hz and channel 2ch-24 bit. (also option for encoded digital audio for channel but not sure what that does...)

 is this the best option to leave it on? I understand normal cd quality will be 44100.0Hz....

 Also with the USB out I only get option for highest 48000.0Hz and 2ch-16 bit...

 thanks in advance..._

 

Everytime you plug the D10 into the Mac's optical it will default to 24/48, but if you then launch iTunes and listen to native 24/96 music (like downloads from HDTracks or Linnrecords) iTunes will downsample the music to the 24/48. 

 If you open audio midi setup and change it to 24/96 before you launch iTunes, it will upsample everything to 24/96 and no change native hi-res files. It does a good job with this and does not degrade the 16/44.1 files, while preserving the full resolution of the hi-res files. It will stay at 24/96 until you unplug the D10.

 Also, doing this will have the D10 set up for best audio with DVD movies.

 Most USB DAC do not support greater than 16/48 - a few do like EMU 0404, M Audio Transit, Benchmark DAC1, Bel Canto USB S/PDIF converter, Offramp.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Everytime you plug the D10 into the Mac's optical it will default to 24/48, but if you then launch iTunes and listen to native 24/96 music (like downloads from HDTracks or Linnrecords) iTunes will downsample the music to the 24/48. 

 If you open audio midi setup and change it to 24/96 before you launch iTunes, it will upsample everything to 24/96 and no change native hi-res files. It does a good job with this and does not degrade the 16/44.1 files, while preserving the full resolution of the hi-res files. It will stay at 24/96 until you unplug the D10.

 Also, doing this will have the D10 set up for best audio with DVD movies.

 Most USB DAC do not support greater than 16/48 - a few do like EMU 0404, M Audio Transit, Benchmark DAC1, Bel Canto USB S/PDIF converter, Offramp._

 


 Thanks Larry!
 It's a shame you have to set it up each time you plug in D10 though....


----------



## SpudHarris

Does anyone have a list of which Opamps can be used as buffers?

 I notice in one of the posts that the LMH6655 which makes a great gound chip can be used as a buffer, just wondered which others if any could be used??


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you open audio midi setup and change it to 24/96 before you launch iTunes, it will upsample everything to 24/96 and no change native hi-res files. It does a good job with this and does not degrade the 16/44.1 files, while preserving the full resolution of the hi-res files. It will stay at 24/96 until you unplug the D10._

 

That is interesting.
 I tried it and in my taste
 for CD quality files the original 44.1/16 setting is best.
 Changing to 48/24 or 96/24
 maked the sound more "rounded", a bit softer.
 But only marginal. (Might be placebo
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## SpudHarris

Off topic slightly but after reading this thread I ordered these from Farnell to use as buffers in my P3 without checking that I could use duals. I now realise I can't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OP AMP, DUAL CMOS RRI/O, 2350, DIP8; Amp OPA2350PA BURR-BROWN 
 OP AMP, DUAL PRECISION RRI/O, 8616; Ampl AD8616AR ANALOG DEVICES

 Can these be used as normal OpAmps i.e L/R or G? They weren't a great deal of money so I won't be too upset if I can't use them.

 Thanks guys in advance.......


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only DIP version is the OPA2350PA. There should not be a difference in performance unless you got a counterfeit manufactured in China. If the opamp came from a source like DigiKey or other reputable parts suppliers, it should be genuine. I have never gotten any bad opamps from DigiKey. 

 It is very difficult to tell by looking whether they are genuine. I got couple of bogus AD743s and discovered that they would not work in the D10 and P3, whereas the genuines work fine. 
_

 

I never knew there was a counterfeit opamp market. It doesn't seem like it would be very lucrative....


----------



## SpudHarris

Texas Intruments have a specific Counterfeit Task Team. I know because I had to send them pictures & details of fake OPA637's and 627's I bought off e-bay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I always by from reputable sources now like Farnell, RS Components, Mouser or Digikey.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have a list of which Opamps can be used as buffers?

 I notice in one of the posts that the LMH6655 which makes a great gound chip can be used as a buffer, just wondered which others if any could be used??_

 

The AD8616, LMH6643, LMH6655, AD8497, AD8656, and the stock ones I used to think were AD708 but are actually something like an AD8352 or 8532 or something like that. I haven't tried other than the above, and don't recall the sound of the LMH6643 or 55. The AD8397 and AD8656 are a little bright as buffers. The stock ones and the AD8616 have been my favorites.


----------



## HiFlight

The AD8616 has a max supply voltage of 6vdc, the OPA2350 has a max supply voltage of 7vdc. Your P3 LR socket supply voltage is 8 volts. Both the 8616 and 2350 will work just long enough to go "Pop"!!!! 

 They do work well in the D10 but not P3 or P3+.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Off topic slightly but after reading this thread I ordered these from Farnell to use as buffers in my P3 without checking that I could use duals. I now realise I can't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OP AMP, DUAL CMOS RRI/O, 2350, DIP8; Amp OPA2350PA BURR-BROWN 
 OP AMP, DUAL PRECISION RRI/O, 8616; Ampl AD8616AR ANALOG DEVICES

 Can these be used as normal OpAmps i.e L/R or G? They weren't a great deal of money so I won't be too upset if I can't use them.

 Thanks guys in advance......._


----------



## LevA

Does everyone have an imbalance with the volume pot?? 
 when connected to the computer I have left channel imbalance up to almost 9o'clock position; which at 9 and above it's balanced out.


----------



## ztsen

anyway to prevent the pop sound when turn on D10?


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ztsen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyway to prevent the pop sound when turn on D10?_

 

I think a few recommended to turn on your amp before you insert your headphones and take out your headphone before you turn it of...best way to do it is to turn down the volume all the way before you plug in & out.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD8616 has a max supply voltage of 6vdc, the OPA2350 has a max supply voltage of 7vdc. Your P3 LR socket supply voltage is 8 volts. Both the 8616 and 2350 will work just long enough to go "Pop"!!!! 

 They do work well in the D10 but not P3 or P3+._

 

Ah, thanks Ron.......

 Waste of money they were 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Right here's the deal, I'm not in the market for another amp at present as I'm well happy with my P3. So these chips are of no use to me what so ever, they are still in sealed anti static packets and *free* to the first person to give me a good reason why they should have them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't want to give these to someone who already has them, I would prefer they went to someone who has not had the chance to audition them.

 So we don't get this thread off course, just pm me.

 Nigel


----------



## SpudHarris

^ Going to Lev..........
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 His 1st amp, running on stock chips with a view to rolling later.

 Be aware Lev that the AD8616 is SOIC so will require soldering onto a Brown Dog (or equivalent) adapter.


----------



## LevA

Hey Nigel,

 I just PM'd you. 
 Thanks for your generous offer to give them to me. But I'm afraid I don't know how to solder and not sure if I can find someone here on this small island 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I don't want your good deed to go to waste so maybe someone else in the forum might be a better options. 

 cheers for offering them to me and it's great you are willing to help out newbies like me with your generosity! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Going to Lev..........
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 His 1st amp, running on stock chips with a view to rolling later.

 Be aware Lev that the AD8616 is SOIC so will require soldering onto a Brown Dog (or equivalent) adapter._


----------



## SpudHarris

No worries, I'll put the AD8616 on a Brown Dog for you. Hey what goes around comes around, tomorrow you'll do someone a good deed.


----------



## LevA

Thanks Nigel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I gotta say this forum is without a doubt one of the best on the net with great people. glad to be part of it.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No worries, I'll put the AD8616 on a Brown Dog for you. Hey what goes around comes around, tomorrow you'll do someone a good deed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## denging

To spudharis, you still can use the 8616 as ground or vground on P3 or P3+ though


----------



## hvu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ztsen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyway to prevent the pop sound when turn on D10?_

 

Does the popping sound when I turn on the amp damage the amp or headphones in anyway?


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denging* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To spudharis, you still can use the 8616 as ground or vground on P3 or P3+ though_

 

doh!!!!


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denging* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To spudharis, you still can use the 8616 as ground or vground on P3 or P3+ though_

 

Tried it in ground of my P3 and was greeted by a piercing shrill even with no volume. 

 I assume that both the OPA2350 and AD8616 can be used as both OpAmps and Buffers in the D10 though?. Can someone confirm this or otherwise so that LevA knows what he can and can't use them for when he receives them. Thanks


----------



## edu

Got my D10 today!

 Lucky me, it seems the AUX IN jack is faulty. When I insert the interconnect cable from the mp3 player, there is no sound whatsoever. Then, if I pull it out a bit, the sound springs to live, but since it is loose, when you move a bit the sound goes funny.

 I seem to be jynx. I had a very similar issue with my Pro 900, and had to get them replaced (I think my Ultrasone Pro 900 might be faulty - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio )

 Also, the input from USB seems to have very frequent cracklings. For some reason, more cracklings using Songbird, but not as many using Windows Media Player. This might be an issue with my computer or configuration, don't know.

 Thanks heavens the SPIDF optical input sounds great.

 Just out of curiosity, has anybody got similar issues with this device?
 Thanks


----------



## edu

... double post, sorry ...


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you share the spec of the Black Gates that you're ordering and where?




 Can I use the stock opamp with the 8616 buffer? Will it sound good?_

 

Don't mean to ignore you, but I went on a trip and just came back. I hope you have found your answers. Yes, I did order 2 220 and 2 470 uF 6.3V BG. I got the NX.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the popping sound when I turn on the amp damage the amp or headphones in anyway?_

 

No, no harm.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tried it in ground of my P3 and was greeted by a piercing shrill even with no volume. 

 I assume that both the OPA2350 and AD8616 can be used as both OpAmps and Buffers in the D10 though?. Can someone confirm this or otherwise so that LevA knows what he can and can't use them for when he receives them. Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, both can be used in LR and buffer sockets in D10. 

 Make sure if you are using only one socket with a dual opamp such as the 8616, that it is the center socket. Dual opamps will not work in V or G socket. 

 If you only use V or G sockets, there must be either a buffer, or a dummy opamp in the the other, in other words, no empty sockets.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my D10 today!
 ........

 Just out of curiosity, has anybody got similar issues with this device?
 Thanks_

 

yeah I have the same problem with my analogue line in. all other inputs/outputs are fine and I dont get your crackling. I think that is likely to be your buffer/latency setting or a conflict with your onboard chipset. I still havent sent my D10 in to get it fixed as I can still get audio all other ways and I really dont use the analogue line in with it. also shipping from OZ will cost me $50AUD if I want insurance and any kind of swiftness. but I really have to do something about it. sux that this issue is still happening and makes me think some of the parts they are using are cheap/dodgy. the problem has been reported to ibasso and yet it seems to still happen every now and then. I guess thats the price you pay for less price to pay.


----------



## Equus

Aux in I have had a few times where it sounded really soft and distant upon start up, but in a few seconds went to a "normal" volume without any problems.

 Only crackling I get from the USB in can be attributed to my laptop deciding it wanted to do something or those fun static electricity discharges that sometimes happen into my ears.


----------



## HiFlight

I have been experimenting with several single-channel opamps modified to run Class A. Basic SQ is not much changed, but the detail and resolution is improved, especially in top tier amps like the D10 and P3 (and P3+). 

 To appreciate the subtle nuances revealed by using Class A bias, it does, of course, require the use of high-quality upstream components and good phones. High bitrate or lossless recordings are also a must. 

 To date, I am using output bypassed AD744s running Class A, AD743 Class A, and OPA27 Class A for use as a P3 buffer. 

 And the rolling continues!!!!!!


----------



## jamato8

What about the 5534 biased? I have a couple sitting here from the Super Macro days.

 The AD797 sounds pretty good in the opamp section.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about the 5534 biased? I have a couple sitting here from the Super Macro days.

 The AD797 sounds pretty good in the opamp section._

 

Yes, the 5534 is one of the 2 opamps that can be run OBCA. I haven't tried any of those yet, although I have some. I never much cared for the 5534/32. I like the CA743 and OBCA 744 lots better. I finally got a method worked out that is not quite so labor intensive, so I will be making up some of the final editions. 

 I have a set of Class A 743s in my D10 at the moment, and a set of OBCA 744s in my P3+, but it is hard to make comparisons with 2 different types of amps, and changing from one to the other. 

 I wonder how the AD797 would sound class A???? Hmmmm.


----------



## jamato8

What pins is it to bias, 5 and 6 tied together with 5 cut off?


----------



## LevA

my burn in of D10 is coming along quite well and after an initial flatness at around 140hrs the sound has opened up again with a nice soundstage. 

 btw i've just been playing with the gain switch. when on low gain with the esw10's the mid are a bit recessed (I hope this is the correct definition) which gives it depth and the soundstage feels like 3D. 
 when I put on high gain, I don't get much difference in sound volume (overall except for the mids) but I am hearing the mids becoming more forward and louder, where the sound is quite nice but without much depth. 

 Am I hearing and describing it correctly??? I always thought gain was to just increase the volume but the changes in mids is much more pronounced than volume increase for me...

 I still prefer low gain but in some music like solo instruments the high gain has a nice sound and is clearer ( bach cello suites etc).


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my burn in of D10 is coming along quite well and after an initial flatness at around 140hrs the sound has opened up again with a nice soundstage. 

 btw i've just been playing with the gain switch. when on low gain with the esw10's the mid are a bit recessed (I hope this is the correct definition) which gives it depth and the soundstage feels like 3D. 
 when I put on high gain, I don't get much difference in sound volume (overall except for the mids) but I am hearing the mids becoming more forward, where the sound is quite nice but without much depth. 

 Am I hearing and describing it correctly??? I always thought gain was to just increase the volume but the changes in mids is much more pronounced than volume increase for me...

 I still prefer low gain but in some music like solo instruments the high gain has a nice sound and is clearer ( bach cello suites etc)._

 

I also prefer the lo gain on my ER4S. Hi gain is a little brighter for my taste.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also prefer the lo gain on my ER4S. Hi gain is a little brighter for my taste._

 

do you hear the same about mids becoming more forward on high gain??


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you hear the same about mids becoming more forward on high gain??_

 

The mids become more emphasize. However, I also find the highs undergo the same. So on overcooked recordings, it can become unbearable quickly. With lo gain, its more relaxed. I'm using AD8656 with stock buffers. I hear the same with the stock opamp and buffers.


----------



## LevA

Thanks.

 for me somehow while the volume goes up just a little in the highs, I can really hear the mids much more. like I said, the soundstage becomes flatter with high gain. 
 I will try to listen again later. maybe I didn't pay enough attention to the highs...
 but yeah, I much prefer low gain..

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The mids become more emphasize. However, I also find the highs undergo the same. So on overcooked recordings, it can become unbearable quickly. With lo gain, its more relaxed. I'm using AD8656 with stock buffers. I hear the same with the stock opamp and buffers._


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks.

 for me somehow while the volume goes up just a little in the highs, I can really hear the mids much more. like I said, the soundstage becomes flatter with high gain. 
 I will try to listen again later. maybe I didn't pay enough attention to the highs...
 but yeah, I much prefer low gain.._

 

What's your source? I've been comparing the USB with optical (iHP-120). I prefer USB than optical.


----------



## jamato8

You need to have a good source when using optical and if on a hard drive, lossless or WAV and WAV is the best, IMO


----------



## LevA

I'm using my macbook pro>digital out>esw10's with apple lossless..I prefer the optical out..

 mind you I'm not complaining with the sound as this makes it much more versatile for me. I really don't need volume boost as i can hardly go above 10 o'clock position before my ears start to hurt...

 I'm gona test now again to see if I hear the same. the house is much quiter now...


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's your source? I've been comparing the USB with optical (iHP-120). I prefer USB than optical._


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You need to have a good source when using optical and if on a hard drive, lossless or WAV and WAV is the best, IMO_

 

My iHP-120 is on flash while USB is hard drive (laptop). I can't fathom the difference that I hear between the two. I should be hearing the same but the USB sounds preferable to my ears, more dimensional, warmer.


----------



## Bojamijams

I'm just curious, why so much talk about the AD743 but not the 843?


----------



## LevA

Ok I just took a quick listen again...and yeah my bad, the highs do increase as well. I just listened to dvoraks' cello concerto. 

 However, it still gives me the impression that depth is lost. I guess its just a psychological perception.


----------



## LevA

jamato8

 how would you describe the difference between op-amp AD743 vs OPA2350 using AD8616 as buffers with esw10's?? I read OPA2350 is prefferred for iems as it reduces the hiss..

 Nigel was kind enough to give me OPA2350 and AD8616 for the D10. just wondering if I should get the AD743 and try them out with the 8616 buffers...


----------



## jamato8

Whatever you hear, you hear. Trust what you hear and if USB is better then it is and if the stage is flatter with one or the other then it most likely is. It's all good.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok I just took a quick listen again...and yeah my bad, the highs do increase as well. I just listened to dvoraks' cello concerto. 

 However, it still gives me the impression that depth is lost. I guess its just a psychological perception. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You mean the instruments' image become flatter, less dimensional and less separation. That's exactly what I hear as well.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whatever you hear, you hear. Trust what you hear and if USB is better then it is and if the stage is flatter with one or the other then it most likely is. It's all good._

 

That's what its all about.


----------



## LevA

yep, thats what i have been trying to say but I guess i coudn't describe it well...

 I'm glad to hear i'm not just imagining it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You mean the instruments' image become flatter, less dimensional and less separation. That's exactly what I hear as well._


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yep, thats what i have been trying to say but I guess i coudn't describe it well...

 I'm glad to hear i'm not just imagining it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm still puzzled as to why the gain toggle switch has that effect. But more so with the USB with the same digital song file.


----------



## LevA

probably true with the USB. I first realized it when I had it hooked on my ipod>LOD when I was playing around with the gain switch. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still puzzled as to why the gain toggle switch has that effect. But more so with the USB with the same digital song file._


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What pins is it to bias, 5 and 6 tied together with 5 cut off?_

 

x2 Is this the method for biasing OpAmps to Class A? I'm a little confused because on my PPAv2 this is achieved with trimmers. Can you comment Ron, I wouldn't want to be missing out on anything


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been experimenting with several single-channel opamps modified to run Class A. Basic SQ is not much changed, but the detail and resolution is improved, especially in top tier amps like the D10 and P3 (and P3+). 

 To appreciate the subtle nuances revealed by using Class A bias, it does, of course, require the use of high-quality upstream components and good phones. High bitrate or lossless recordings are also a must. 

 To date, I am using output bypassed AD744s running Class A, AD743 Class A, and OPA27 Class A for use as a P3 buffer. 

 And the rolling continues!!!!!!_

 

WOW
 class A in the D10
 (how does the AD743 classA sound in comparison to your topkit?)

 once more
 you are pushing the envelope,
 attacking my wallet, Ron 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 or
 can the topkit be modified?


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't mean to ignore you, but I went on a trip and just came back. I hope you have found your answers. Yes, I did order 2 220 and 2 470 uF 6.3V BG. I got the NX._

 


 Thanks for the reply!

 Never thought it that way. I always think that headfiers are one of the most generous people in the world. Cheers.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW
 class A in the D10
 (how does the AD743 classA sound in comparison to your topkit?)

 once more
 you are pushing the envelope,
 attacking my wallet, Ron 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 or
 can the topkit be modified?_

 

Will AD743 class hiss with ES3X?


----------



## qusp

hisses slightly with SE530 and W3, so I would say yes


----------



## qusp

I prefer optical to USB by far when driving D10 or D10->lisa from my Mac-> RME Fireface 400, but I prefer Coax over both of them. (cryo 7N UP-OCC silver double shielded (5N silver foil and SPC braid) with silver bullets. 
 just use a plain USB cable (remedying that shortly after some more research) but I just find that both optical and coax have considerably more air and dynamism, with added resolution. USB to me sounds like its trying too hard and is a little congested IMO, while spdif produces effortless detail.


----------



## rhw

Do you get Coax digital from your Mac? Have I missed something? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I always prefered digital coax to digital optical, too.
 I would describe it in the way that with digital out from the Mac to the iBasso d10 the sound becomes more detailed (so far natural), while over USB it is "harder", some micro resolution missing.
 (On the iBasso D3 this effect is compensated by a smoother amp part.)
 Connected to an USB Monica (which has a reclocking unit - Does any portable have such a feature?) this effect is less obvious .... I can not recognize it.


----------



## rebski

Quote:


 it seems the AUX IN jack is faulty. 
 

edu, I have had information from iBasso that they "are using another brand's jack now".

 That is all they said in relation to my request that they use better quality components in my similarly afflicted D10. Let's hope that deals with the issue.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_btw i've just been playing with the gain switch. when on low gain with the esw10's the mid are a bit recessed (I hope this is the correct definition) which gives it depth and the soundstage feels like 3D. 
 when I put on high gain, I don't get much difference in sound volume (overall except for the mids) but I am hearing the mids becoming more forward and louder, where the sound is quite nice but without much depth. 
_

 

In some opamp configurations, I don't notice ANY difference when going hi gain from low, in terms of SQ, and sometimes there is no difference in volume either.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2 Is this the method for biasing OpAmps to Class A? I'm a little confused because on my PPAv2 this is achieved with trimmers. Can you comment Ron, I wouldn't want to be missing out on anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, this is the method for modifying a 744 or 5534 for Class A operation. 

 One must remove the #6 pin, connect the #5 pin to the #6 solder pad, then use a 2.2k resistor to bridge #6 to #7 pin. 

 There isn't much room on an adapter for using 1/4 or 1/8 watt resistors, so I use SMD resistors. They are so tiny that they don't interfere with mounting 2 modules onto a 2>1 adapter. 

 I haven't yet found a good (easy) way to modify a dual-channel opamp to Class A operation. Maybe down the road when I get more hacking time.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In some opamp configurations, I don't notice ANY difference when going hi gain from low, in terms of SQ, and sometimes there is no difference in volume either._

 

The D10 gain switch actually only results in a 3db difference in gain. This is about the lowest volume change one can detect by listening.


----------



## jamato8

Oh yeah, I made some adapters up with smd resistors. I have no idea where they are. That was so long ago Ron. All that work on the Xin amps.


----------



## andrew3199

Is the IBasso D10 the only current Amp / DAC combo that offers all three "*USB*" "*Coax*" and "*Optical*" input, portable or none portable?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, this is the method for modifying a 744 or 5534 for Class A operation. 

 One must remove the #6 pin, connect the #5 pin to the #6 solder pad, then use a 2.2k resistor to bridge #6 to #7 pin. 

 There isn't much room on an adapter for using 1/4 or 1/8 watt resistors, so I use SMD resistors. They are so tiny that they don't interfere with mounting 2 modules onto a 2>1 adapter. 

 I haven't yet found a good (easy) way to modify a dual-channel opamp to Class A operation. Maybe down the road when I get more hacking time._

 

Wasn't there also a biasing of removing pin 5 and connecting pin 5 to 6 and running a resistor from 5 & 6 to pin 7?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW
 class A in the D10
 (how does the AD743 classA sound in comparison to your topkit?)

 once more
 you are pushing the envelope,
 attacking my wallet, Ron 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 or
 can the topkit be modified?_

 

I have not had too much time to compare the 743 standard to the 743 CA, as I have been mostly working at the bench, but my initial impressions are that the basic Class A SQ is very similar but more revealing of small nuances and musical details. 

 In order to hear these differences, it is imperative to have good recordings, and first-rate upstream components as well as very good phones. 

 Some recordings might sound better if recording artifacts are not as noticeable, so CA might not always sound best with all recordings. 

 I have not yet made comparisons for hiss. The different bias might or might not have an effect. Headphone Addict has one of the first prototype AD744 OBCA modules, and will likely post his impressions of how it compares to the standard Topkit. 

 I am especially interested in whether the AD744s hiss with sensitive IEMs. 

 My initial impressions are that the 744 has slightly more mid and high frequency detail than the 743. Bass is also tighter. 
 It really sounds superb with acoustic and vocal music, but, again, I have not had that much time for critical listening. 

 The AD744 has often been used in high-end audio products, whereas the 743 has most often been used in industrial and military applications. The noise specs are better in the 743, but this doesn't often impact listening to the audio portion of the opamps bandwidth. 

 In the FWIW department, I have never heard an opamp with specs that showed excellent squarewave response that sounded bad.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The AD746 has more his than the AD743 on a 2:1 board. The hiss with the AD743 topkit is mild and less than the ALO Amphora or the Macbook Pro headphone out jack, so I do not use a volume attenuator. I am expecting the Class A AD744 today or tomorrow, and wil report back on that one. I will also spend more time with the OPA2350 and IEM too. Last time it was great with my ES3X but bassy with IE8 (duh) and not as dynamic with HD600 as the AD743 (both with AD8616 buffers).


----------



## shredder

I'm playing with my new D10.... anyone know how to get the USB on a Mac to output the sound from iTunes for the D10s DACs to play for me? Or am i not doing something on the D10?


----------



## jamato8

Now I remember how I did it. I used an adapter board with the DIP opamp leaving the 6 leg out of the hole to the side and I used a wire to tie 5 to 6 and a 2.2K from 6 to 7. That way the dip opamp could still be used as a regular opamp if I wanted to as the leg was still good.


----------



## rhw

Many thanks for your efforts, Ron.
 Your day seems to have more hours than mine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, that's the game, to reveil music through sound.
 I like acoustic and vocals.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shredder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm playing with my new D10.... anyone know how to get the USB on a Mac to output the sound from iTunes for the D10s DACs to play for me? Or am i not doing something on the D10?_

 

Open system preferences.
 Go to sound preferences - output.
 Activate the USB option.
 ::
 better use an optical cable.

 (Please someone correct me - I am not on an english system)


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am expecting the Class A AD744 today or tomorrow, and wil report back on that one. ._

 

Will be interesting and surely find many readers.
 Also
 many I think are awaiting your review of the HF-2.


----------



## jamato8

edit:

 The following is while using the opamp with the P3+. I got my amps confused. sorry. :^)


 Ok, the AD744 OB and CA very nice. More detail and great presence. Will have to listen more. I can use my adapter now for any dip opamp and of course soic on a Brown Dog etc. I must have made up these adapters 4 years ago or so. I am surprised I have them with me. I used a 1/8 watt resistor on each that is neatly tucked under the adapter so it is out of the way and still works, which it would not if on the side of the adapter.


----------



## shredder

Got it! Thanks! 

 I take it I will need to pick up an optical connection adapter?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shredder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got it! Thanks! 

 I take it I will need to pick up an optical connection adapter?_

 

You Mac is a mini optical so you will need a mini to toslink adapter or just buy a mini to toslink from Sysconcept in the length you need for a high quality optical cable.


----------



## andrew3199

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andrew3199* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the IBasso D10 the only current Amp / DAC combo that offers all three "*USB*" "*Coax*" and "*Optical*" input, portable or none portable?_

 

Anyone?


----------



## jamato8

It's the only one I know of.


----------



## shredder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You Mac is a mini optical so you will need a mini to toslink adapter or just buy a mini to toslink from Sysconcept in the length you need for a high quality optical cable._

 

Jamato8 - You truely are a Headphoneous Supremus. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll get the hang of this head-fi thing yet.


----------



## andrew3199

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's the only one I know of._

 

Thanks Jamato


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will be interesting and surely find many readers.
 Also
 many I think are awaiting your review of the HF-2._

 

There is just no way I can get that done before I leave for a 5-day vacation with my Family. So not this weekend but the next, if I do it at all. I've already posted my impressions of the HF-2 in that thread. Nothing has changed in my impressions, even after 250 hours of burn-in I like them and am considering selling my re-cabled RS-1.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andrew3199* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone?_

 

Headroom makes a Micro portable amp/dac for $599 with a 20 hour rechargeable battery inside. The coax uses a mini connector. Don't they still have a desktop portable with DAC as well?


----------



## jamato8

I thought they discontinued that in 2007 or so. I don't see the battery operated unit on their website.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought they discontinued that in 2007 or so. I don't see the battery operated unit on their website._

 

Right here: 

HeadRoom Portable Micro Amp @ HeadRoom

HeadRoom Portable Desktop Amp


----------



## jamato8

Great, thanks for the link.
 The Micro is a little bigger than the D1 and the Desktop is larger but at least there are options. 

 I don't think there is anything in the size range of the D10 though. 

 So who has one of these?


----------



## jamato8

Double post. I am not sure why HeadFi posts so slowly at times.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you get Coax digital from your Mac? Have I missed something? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I always prefered digital coax to digital optical, too.
 I would describe it in the way that with digital out from the Mac to the iBasso d10 the sound becomes more detailed (so far natural), while over USB it is "harder", some micro resolution missing.
 (On the iBasso D3 this effect is compensated by a smoother amp part.)
 Connected to an USB Monica (which has a reclocking unit - Does any portable have such a feature?) this effect is less obvious .... I can not recognize it._

 

yes you missed something. in plain view too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I have an RME fireface 400 (multichannel 64 bit pro audio interface and dac 14 channels I/O 24/192) connected to my mac via firewire and it has coax...... among other things.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes you missed something. in plain view too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I have an RME fireface 400 (multichannel 64 bit pro audio interface and dac 14 channels I/O 24/192) connected to my mac via firewire and it has coax...... among other things._

 

Someone at the Colorado head-fi meet summer 2008 told me my Apogee mini-DAC and Blutarsky's Apogee Duet (same table) was better than his RME Fireface.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now I remember how I did it. I used an adapter board with the DIP opamp leaving the 6 leg out of the hole to the side and I used a wire to tie 5 to 6 and a 2.2K from 6 to 7. That way the dip opamp could still be used as a regular opamp if I wanted to as the leg was still good._

 

Jamato, that is so cool! I'm gonna make up a couple this afternoon and do some critical listening this evening. This is why I love this forum, an endless supply of superb ingiuity


----------



## jamato8

You can only do it with certain opamps. For some reason I thought I could do it with smd when mounted but the leg of the adapter for the smd would have to be cut off as it can't be bent like that of a DiP.


----------



## rabor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andrew3199* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the IBasso D10 the only current Amp / DAC combo that offers all three "*USB*" "*Coax*" and "*Optical*" input, portable or none portable?_

 

If you want a portable with the "holy trinity", then D10 is (as far as I know) still the most compact & best sounding solution, but for non-portable there's many options.. My HeadRoom ultra desktop has it all, Pacific Valve have several, there's loads of (preassembled) DIY's, & many more if you google "headphone amp dac usb optical coax". GL.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is just no way I can get that done before I leave for a 5-day vacation with my Family. So not this weekend but the next, if I do it at all. I've already posted my impressions of the HF-2 in that thread. Nothing has changed in my impressions, even after 250 hours of burn-in I like them and am considering selling my re-cabled RS-1._

 

Thank you.
 There is no hurry.
 Have nice vacations with your family!

 I will see for myself how it compares to my RS1 (2008) hopefully later the month before my vacations next month.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edit:

 The following is while using the opamp with the P3+. I got my amps confused. sorry. :^)


 Ok, the AD744 OB and CA very nice. More detail and great presence. Will have to listen more. I can use my adapter now for any dip opamp and of course soic on a Brown Dog etc. I must have made up these adapters 4 years ago or so. I am surprised I have them with me. I used a 1/8 watt resistor on each that is neatly tucked under the adapter so it is out of the way and still works, which it would not if on the side of the adapter._

 

Thank you, John.
 I have read in the P3+ thread - about opamps rolling class A .....

 How you do not get confused by posting in different threads and listening to different stuff at the same time?


----------



## diditmyself

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andrew3199* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone?_

 

You can find several non portable with all 3 inputs at Ebay. The new Zero is one of them.


----------



## ztsen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edit:

 The following is while using the opamp with the P3+. I got my amps confused. sorry. :^)


 Ok, the AD744 OB and CA very nice. More detail and great presence. Will have to listen more. I can use my adapter now for any dip opamp and of course soic on a Brown Dog etc. I must have made up these adapters 4 years ago or so. I am surprised I have them with me. I used a 1/8 watt resistor on each that is neatly tucked under the adapter so it is out of the way and still works, which it would not if on the side of the adapter._

 

does 744 have any hiss on the sensitive iem (um3x, tf10) compare to 743?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Someone at the Colorado head-fi meet summer 2008 told me my Apogee mini-DAC and Blutarsky's Apogee Duet (same table) was better than his RME Fireface._

 

well; LOL at that, maybe to his ears and with his gear? I know the Duet doesnt have balanced (a muct for me). and yes i've heard both of those apogees. didnt think much of the duet TBH, but the minidac is nice. apogee make some great stuff no doubt; but I favour their errrmm more advanced offerings. I also produce music in Logic studio triggering several hardware synths and a voltage to midi converter to drive an old prophet analogue synth. and record via an ADA8000 into the adat input. neither of those models have enough I/O for me and I cant Justify buying any of their topflight multichannel interfaces; especially since I dont really get enough time anymore to really take advantage of it. she's getting on a bit too these days, had it for a couple of years and bought used. gonna upgrade the power rail at some point. but likely before then i'll be grabbing a buffalo Dac, I mainly bought the fireface for ADC at the time, rather than DAC. the ADC in the FF is very nice, but the main thing I love is the drivers. rock solid. Also love the ability to use it without any computer at all as a hardware mixer, great for parties.


----------



## diditmyself

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ztsen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does 744 have any hiss on the sensitive iem (um3x, tf10) compare to 743?_

 

AD744 is one of the noisiest opamps, but I like it's sound when the output stage is by-passed = comp pin out. The noise is clearly audible with IEM's. I have no D10, but I've used it many times in other amps.


----------



## GreenLeo

Can OPA2350 modified into Class A mode?


----------



## rhw

Quoting HiFlight from the iBasso P3+ thread

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The NE/SA/SE5534, AD744 and AD829 can be modified to run OB, 5534 and 744 can be run OBCA, 829 can't do both at the same time. 

 Any single-channel opamp can be modified to run CA._


----------



## SpudHarris

To run class A with any single OpAmp is it just a case of putting a 2.2k resistor between pins 6 & 7?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To run class A with any single OpAmp is it just a case of putting a 2.2k resistor between pins 6 & 7?_

 

Yes. Though it would seem that for different current draws from different opamps and ideal bias might not be obtained. Ron?


----------



## rhw

Quoting Ron once more from the iBasso P3+ thread

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The biased 744s were made by cutting off the #6 pin, then bending the #5 pin to fit into the #6 socket hole. I am going to make some up using SOIC case style, as it is much easier to make them up with an adapter. Just cut off a leg and a bit of solder bridging and you are done._

 

?


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks to Hiflight and Jamato I managed to put together 2 x adapters for the AD744's to run OBCA and the difference is not subtle. Everything about them is better, resolution, depth, clarity everything!

 As everyone knows the further we get down the slippery slope the more we seem to pay for even the smallest of improvements and eventually these improvements against cost become disproportionate. This mod cost next to nothing (although I did melt about 6 adapters to end up with 2 finished modules), but the improvement is quite noticable. Ron said to notice these improvements you must be using a decent source and high bitrate recordings at least and I second this. I'm using these OpAmps with Ibasso buffers + OPA2107 in ground in a P3 with lossless tunes via an ipod LOD and a custom made 12v PSU.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can OPA2350 modified into Class A mode?_

 

No, but the single-channel version, the OPA350 can be biased Class A. I will be making up a set of those for testing very soon.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, but the single-channel version, the OPA350 can be biased Class A. I will be making up a set of those for testing very soon._

 

Wow, what a news!

 I look forward to hearing your impression. Just wish that it can sound better than the OPA2350.

 By the way, what is the meaning "single channel" or the difference between the 2350 and 350? Thanks.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, what a news!

 I look forward to hearing your impression. Just wish that it can sound better than the OPA2350.

 By the way, what is the meaning "single channel" or the difference between the 2350 and 350? Thanks._

 

A single channel is an opamp with one operational amplifier circuit. A dual opamp has two opamps in one chip.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A single channel is an opamp with one operational amplifier circuit. A dual opamp has two opamps in one chip._

 

Thanks John.
 So how does a single/dual channel affect the sound?


----------



## a_tumiwa

how to use "DAC only" from D10 and then use other headamp??


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how to use "DAC only" from D10 and then use other headamp??_

 

Connect "Aux out" to any amp.
 Switch D10 on.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Connect "Aux out" to any amp.
 Switch D10 on._

 

"I love it when a plan comes together" - Hannibal Smith, The A Team


----------



## jonathanjong

Hey an optical cable comes with the D10. But I need...an adapter to plug one end into my MacBook, right?


----------



## andrew3199

Would the Ibasso D10 be able to drive the senn HD580's?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andrew3199* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the Ibasso D10 be able to drive the senn HD580's?_

 

Yes, no, or maybe! It depends who you ask and the source they use, and how loud they listen to music. Having owned both I can say that it drove the Senn to satisfactory level. I should mention I listen at a low volume level.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonathanjong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey an optical cable comes with the D10. But I need...an adapter to plug one end into my MacBook, right?_

 

Right
 something like this





 (picture loaded from audioadvisor.com)


sysconcept adapters


----------



## lxxl

Hello,

 I am new to Head-Fi, did some reading the last few days... and this iBasso D10 is very interesting, and it's right into my budget for my upcoming amp. Initially I was planing to get a desktop amp, should I go for this or stay with desktop amp?

 I plan to use my amp for and from my macbook, through optical most likely, or USB, then to my HD555 or HD280pro. I do travel with my laptop once in a few months.

 Other question is, I live in Canada, if I order a D10 will I get customed by shipper? If so how much? Just trying to get a full estimate for the worse.

 Thanks for help...


----------



## HiFlight

I can't answer your question fully about customs, but the performance of the D10 is right up there nipping at the heels of the best desktops, all for a fraction of the price.


----------



## LevA

wow, the D10 thread has been unusually quite the last 2 days!!

 I know there are people in head-fi that don't believe in burn-in of amps, especially portable amps, but after my experience with D10 I definitely believe it!
 I just can't believe how many changes this small amp has gone through...at around ~70hrs, ~140hrs and now again...I'm not sure what hours I'm on right now but I'm guessing somewhere over ~220 (could be close to 300 hrs but I really lost count...). Yesterday all of a sudden the bass level increased drastically where low bass was wonderful if not a bit sloppy..I could feel bass in my body even listening to some newly recorded classical music (ie Andrew Manze) and especially with Medeski,Martin & Wood it was very nice but just needed to tighten up a little. Since this morning that bass level has gone, where it is more refined and tight but again lacking that tiny bit extra bass. 
 And now the last 1-2 hours, the amp has taken turn for the worst where voices have become distorted. Up until now never experienced distorted sound, so I'm hoping it will get back to that smooth sound I fell in love (especially with Norah Jones...). 

 These are all the major changes in sound, not counting the slow improvements with sound stage, instrument separation etc..

 It's been one hell of a roller coaster ride so far, and to be honest I feel like I want to get off, hoping the SQ just starts to settle in...

 As for now, just waiting for the distortion to go away and get back that lovely smooth mids I was hearing until today...fingers crossed..


----------



## jamato8

I never got any distortion. I would check all connections. Are you using the optical or USB?


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I never got any distortion. I would check all connections. Are you using the optical or USB?_

 

Hi Jamato8,

 when I listened to Norah Jones' voice it was a very steely sound with some distortion on high notes (I hope its the correct definition..the edges of her voice is little loose which feels like distortion)....but after 4 hours its already slowly getting better...in fact the whole sound is becoming clearer as its changing..the distortion was especially apparent in Norah Jones' album. others were not as much affected. 

 I'm using optical..


----------



## LeeSC

I got distortion when the battery gone too low. That is with the topkit rolled in. I am not sure if you will get distortion with the stock setting.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got distortion when the battery gone too low. That is with the topkit rolled in. I am not sure if you will get distortion with the stock setting._

 

Hi Lee,
 It wasn't the battery in my case as I had it charged in the morning. I also checked other songs and albums and it wasn't as obvious as it was with Norah Jones. 
 Just listening to it now again and the distortion is almost gone in Norah jones' voice. Up until today it used to be very nice and smooth. Now it feels a bit shrill but smoothing out. I'm putting it as a burn-in case. like I said the last 2 days it's been going through some changes again, with bass increasing and then scaling down. At the moment I'm quite happy with the bass, as its more deep than it was previously.

 I just changed to USB and its the same so definitely not the cable...


----------



## HiFlight

I find that all of my Norah Jones albums sound the same way at higher volume levels...I think it may be the fault of the recording engineers. The recordings sound overdriven to me. They are the only albums that sound this way.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find that all of my Norah Jones albums sound the same way at higher volume levels...I think it may be the fault of the recording engineers. The recordings sound overdriven to me. They are the only albums that sound this way._

 

I definitely agree with you on the sound. That's why I've been using it often to see if the amp makes it better. I love Norah Jones but have found her voice a bit harsh at times without an amp. the D10 really smoothed her voice where it was really nice with no shrill or harshness up until now.


----------



## rasmushorn

Is that what they call "SIBILANSE"?


----------



## jonoliew

awww man i cant make up my mind now.. Pico w/ DAC or D10?? anyone had experience with the 2?


----------



## raymondu999

HPA has a review of DAC+amp units around here somewhere...


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *raymondu999* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HPA has a review of DAC+amp units around here somewhere..._

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/u...ce-xm5-306883/


----------



## LevA

LeeSC,

 What's the sound difference of D10 compared to p-51? I remember you prefered P-51 sound but was that only comparing amps only or D10 DAC/AMP sound vs P-51?

 Just want to get some idea about the RSA house sound...(now you got me thinking about RSA after your message...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## shredder

I've had the D10 for about a week now. 

 I just can't get over how good it sounds with my Audio-Technica ATH-M50 headphones.
 The M50s are open, powerful, crisp, and they produce a sound engaging enough to find yourself staring into space while listing to a song you've heard too many times to count. I have always liked the M50s, but the D10 brought them up to a level that has completely changed the way I think of them. While it's not a night and day difference, it's a big enough change that I don't like listening to them with out the D10. I'm loving this set up, big time.

 Was considering an "upgrade" on the headphones.... wonder what it will take to improve upon the M50.


----------



## shredder

Should have added above, using the D10s DAC via USB is a wonderful thing. What a BLACK noise floor. I am going to order a mini-toslink for the Mac and see what kind of improvement that offers compared to the USB cable.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LeeSC,

 What's the sound difference of D10 compared to p-51? I remember you prefered P-51 sound but was that only comparing amps only or D10 DAC/AMP sound vs P-51?

 Just want to get some idea about the RSA house sound...(now you got me thinking about RSA after your message...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

I do now know how to descirbe with words. I am happy listening to D10 with topkit rolled in, but I don't want to put my headphone down listening to P-51.


----------



## Il Mostro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do now know how to descirbe with words. I am happy listening to D10 with topkit rolled in, but I don't want to put my headphone down listening to P-51.



_

 

I see you also have a Predator. Is the D10 = Predator clone that I've often seen here accurate based on your experience?


----------



## sbulack

I've had the D10 with Topkit installed for a few weeks now, which I've been using at work (and thoroughly enjoying) with a pair of Yuin PK1. I finally switched to using a pair of Shure SE530 which I haven't been using at work since they are too isolating AND did not sound their best using the amps I was using as work. With the D10, with Topkit installed, they offer really lovely, fine audio as involving as any of my home rigs. Different in the actual qualities offered, but no less fine or involving.

 I DO hear, when either no audio is playing, or the sound level of the music I'm playing is really low (but the D10 is on), with the SE530 inserted, a really low level something. It's not as turbulent-sounding as a "hiss", it's more like a long, slow exhale - audible, but not at all attention-grabbing, and the level of which is independent of the pot setting. This is with the D10 on low gain. I have to say that it does not detract at all from my listening - it's just too faint and unannoying a sound to divert my attention from what I'm listening to.

 I really LOVE the sound qualities using the SE530 with the D10/Topkit. The tone is so pure, clear, deep and clean - with boatloads of low-level information across the acoustic spectrum, with an openness, transparency and finesse that my ear hasn't revelled in like this for a long time. I'm listening to "New York Blue" by Valerie Joyce. Her delivery is very soft-edged, delicate and tonally super-rich. While a feast for the ear, it can often make it difficult for me to hear and understand the words she is singing - which are worth hearing. With the SE530, I am not having to strain, ever, even in the softest strains, to hear the words with crystal clarity - and yet, still with the rich smoothness and velvetey-soft and silken textures that make this collections of songs so immersive and transporting. And the body resonances from the upright string bass, piano and drum heads are wonderful to experience. It's an exceptional listening experience. And, this is using USB from a work-issue laptop (I AM using the Kimber USB A-to-miniB cable that I purchased from Headroom, though).

 I get a similarly superlative listening experience when I play "Into White" from Cat Stevens' "Tea for the Tillerman". It's a magical number, and the magic is only enhanced when the ear is immersed and awash in every nuance and understated suggestion of the stuff of which awe and wonder are made.

 k.d. lang's "Ingenue" is quite an album to hear with this setup as well. Especially the tracks: "Save Me", "Wash Me Clean", "Season Of Hollow Soul". For all of the subtleties and low-level information, there's nothing clinical or analytical about the sound. It's a fully moving listening experience.

 OK, I'm done. The D10, with Topkit installed (AD743 + AD8616), is an incredible match for the sensitivity and sonic qualities of the Shure SE530. An immersively and transportingly intimate listening experience.

 So much so that the really subtle level, and softness of the "exhaled breath of the D10", even when audible - which is not often - does not break the spell - not for me, anyway.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Il Mostro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see you also have a Predator. Is the D10 = Predator clone that I've often seen here accurate based on your experience?_

 

With my limited time spent on my stock D10, both the D10 and the Predator does sound very close. I don't use digital input much so I did not compare the USB digital input to both. According to many people, the D10 has a better DAC, so I would think that the D10 would sound better with digital source. I started rolling the opamp on my D10 right after I burn it in and I am not going back.

 *MOD Edit - Less than 50 posts


----------



## Il Mostro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With my limited time spent on my stock D10, both the D10 and the Predator does sound very close. I don't use digital input much so I did not compare the USB digital input to both. According to many people, the D10 has a better DAC, so I would think that the D10 would sound better with digital source. I started rolling the opamp on my D10 right after I burn it in and I am not going back.

 BTW, I am letting my Predator go. Any taker? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, man. I am looking for something to leave at the office and run out of my Mac Book Pro. I had an inkling you liked the D10 a lot after seeing the Predator was for sale. Seems like the most bang for the buck, with added flexibility, for $$. Should suit my application perfectly.


----------



## sLaYDeMOn

I was wondering if anyone can post a link as to where I can purchase the topkit? (AD743 and two AD8616's for the buffers..) Guidance would be greatly appreciated, thanks! Waiting for my IE8's in the mail and want to maximize my d10 before they get here :-D


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I'm close to selling my Predator as well - but I need it for comparisons if I do more DAC/amp reviews.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sLaYDeMOn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering if anyone can post a link as to where I can purchase the topkit? (AD743 and two AD8616's for the buffers..) Guidance would be greatly appreciated, thanks! Waiting for my IE8's in the mail and want to maximize my d10 before they get here :-D_

 

Send a PM to Head-Fi member HiFlight, expressing your desire to receive a Topkit for the D10, and which opamp and buffers you are interested in. He'll step you through the process from there.


----------



## LevA

About the topkit, I asked this before but never got an answer so just want to try my luck again..
 I will be getting some opamps from a member here (kindly given to me) which is the OPA2350 and I'm just curious what the difference in sound was with AD743? I will be using them with the AD8616 buffers.


----------



## sbulack

Speaking of Topkits, tonight I received several Topkits involving opamps biased to run in Class A, and buffers suitable to them. I'm listening now using a pair of AD744, biased as Output-Bypassed, Class A, with a pair of EL8201 buffers installed in the D10, with a pair of Shure SE530. It's a really great combination - with the subtlest, faintest events coming through clear and unobscured, without introducing an overly-bright spectral balance. This combination is capable of a LOT of delicate loveliness and sonic intimacy.

 For example, in the track "Goodbye" from Emmylou Harris' album "Wrecking Ball", there are quite a few places where her voice is so low that it becomes nearly inaudible in spots. With this combination, even in those faintest spots, the sound she is making may be heard, even if it is just a faint stream of breath passing through her lips. And yet, the overall sound is not at all clinical or analytical -it remains a moving song, the moving quality of which is enhanced by the additional intimacy offered by this combination between her and the listener.

 I'll need to gain more experience with this kit, and try some of the other buffers I have from iBasso and from HighFlight. So far, the AD744, OBCA, is showing itself to be a powerful listening tool when used in the D10.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With my limited time spent on my stock D10, both the D10 and the Predator does sound very close. I don't use digital input much so I did not compare the USB digital input to both. According to many people, the D10 has a better DAC, so I would think that the D10 would sound better with digital source. I started rolling the opamp on my D10 right after I burn it in and I am not going back._

 

Hi Lee,

 Just wonder have you put in the BG caps into your D10? If so, how do describe the changes of the SQ after the BG change?

 Thanks.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About the topkit, I asked this before but never got an answer so just want to try my luck again..
 I will be getting some opamps from a member here (kindly given to me) which is the OPA2350 and I'm just curious what the difference in sound was with AD743? I will be using them with the AD8616 buffers._

 


 The AD743 is a more neutral sounding opamp compared to the OPA2350. It is more resolving of minute details than is the OPA2350. The 2350 is quite dynamic and is not quite as resolving of tiny details in its presentation, and is probably a better choice for use with the 530s,IE8s and UM3X due to the very high sensitivity of these phones. I have tried the single-channel version of the 2350 (the OPA350) in Class A, and it sounds very good to me. Class A sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. I tried a set of OPA604s in Class A and didn't care for them. 

 Some users of the above mentioned IEMs have reported hearing some hiss when using the AD743. I am waiting for comments as to whether biasing the 743 to Class A operation affects the hiss issue one way or another as I have not heard the hiss during my testing and listening.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD743 is a more neutral sounding opamp compared to the OPA2350. It is more resolving of minute details than is the OPA2350. The 2350 is quite dynamic and is not quite as resolving of tiny details in its presentation, and is probably a better choice for use with the 530s,IE8s and UM3X due to the very high sensitivity of these phones. I have tried the single-channel version of the 2350 (the OPA350) in Class A, and it sounds very good to me. Class A sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. I tried a set of OPA604s in Class A and didn't care for them. 

 Some users of the above mentioned IEMs have reported hearing some hiss when using the AD743. I am waiting for comments as to whether biasing the 743 to Class A operation affects the hiss issue one way or another as I have not heard the hiss during my testing and listening._

 

Thanks HiFlight,

 one last question, what's the difference between Ad743 and Class A? I've been reading that it sounds better, but is there any downside to it like more battery use etc? and also do you recommend pairing class A still with the same buffers used in topkit?


----------



## ztsen

Hi, anyone tried AD743 or AD744 with UM3X or TF10? any hiss feedback?


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Lee,

 Just wonder have you put in the BG caps into your D10? If so, how do describe the changes of the SQ after the BG change?

 Thanks._

 

No, I have not put the BG caps in my D10 yet. I am hopping to have a chance to do it today if I can get off work early enough. However, jamato8 has BG installed on his D10 and have been running it for a while now.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...

 Some users of the above mentioned IEMs have reported hearing some hiss when using the AD743. I am waiting for comments as to whether biasing the 743 to Class A operation affects the hiss issue one way or another as I have not heard the hiss during my testing and listening._

 

Hi Ron,

 Can you hear the hissing with the ES3X when the AD743 is NOT in the class A operation (ie the normal topkit)?


----------



## HiFlight

I have noticed no downside to biasing the AD743s as Class A. I have not observed any more demand on the batteries in my iRivers. With the AD743CA, the AD8616s still sound fine, with the AD744OBCA, my personal preference is the EL8201. 

 The only downside is that it takes me longer to make them up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks HiFlight,

 one last question, what's the difference between Ad743 and Class A? I've been reading that it sounds better, but is there any downside to it like more battery use etc? and also do you recommend pairing class A still with the same buffers used in topkit?_


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Ron,

 Can you hear the hissing with the ES3X when the AD743 is NOT in the class A operation (ie the normal topkit)?_

 

I cannot hear hiss using my ES3X/H120/CF/D10/AD743 Topkit combination. 

 The reported hiss does not seem to be present in all D10s with the AD743 Topkit. Only a small percentage of the kits being used have reported hiss as being noticeable, always with very sensitive IEMs. 

 Perhaps they are running full volume with muted input to hear hiss. I don't think it is a problem in normal listening situations, but for those who are sensitive to this issue, I have an alternate D10 Topkit available: (AD744OBCA/EL8201)


----------



## a_tumiwa

Hiflight, D10 is too warm for me, is there any opamp that can make D10 become bright??


----------



## HiFlight

ADA4841-2 is about the brightest, most detailed opamp that I have come across. Maybe try it with bypassed buffers. You might even consider using the same opamp in the buffer sockets as well.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hiflight, D10 is too warm for me, is there any opamp that can make D10 become bright??_

 

Wow, this is exactly the opposite to me...it's considerably brighter than my Topaz and somewhat more so than the Millett Mini Max, even with a dark opamp like the OPA 2228. 

 By bright, I mean emphasis on higher frequencies of the sound spectrum (like an alto singer...the MMM would be a tenor, and the Topaz would be a baritone). 

 At the same time, the D10 is very fast, with exceptional clarity and imaging...


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I cannot hear hiss using my ES3X/H120/CF/D10/AD743 Topkit combination. 

 The reported hiss does not seem to be present in all D10s with the AD743 Topkit. Only a small percentage of the kits being used have reported hiss as being noticeable, always with very sensitive IEMs. 

 Perhaps they are running full volume with muted input to hear hiss. I don't think it is a problem in normal listening situations, but for those who are sensitive to this issue, I have an alternate D10 Topkit available: (AD744OBCA/EL8201)_

 

Could you give us a rundown between the AD743 and AD744? I imagine that putting either in Class A would increase details, and a bit wider soundstage. Output bypass would build upon the class A improvements, right?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hiflight, D10 is too warm for me, is there any opamp that can make D10 become bright??_

 

How much time do you have on it? 

 Like HiFlight mentioned, try some different opamps but I never found the amp to be too warm, which is a feature I can not stand.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD743 is a more neutral sounding opamp compared to the OPA2350. It is more resolving of minute details than is the OPA2350. The 2350 is quite dynamic and is not quite as resolving of tiny details in its presentation, and is probably a better choice for use with the 530s,IE8s and UM3X due to the very high sensitivity of these phones. I have tried the single-channel version of the 2350 (the OPA350) in Class A, and it sounds very good to me. Class A sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. I tried a set of OPA604s in Class A and didn't care for them. 

 Some users of the above mentioned IEMs have reported hearing some hiss when using the AD743. I am waiting for comments as to whether biasing the 743 to Class A operation affects the hiss issue one way or another as I have not heard the hiss during my testing and listening._

 

I will be able to report on the opamps I got from you tonight, I think.


----------



## SpudHarris

I've tried the AD743's both standard and on a DIP Class A Adapter with 3 different IEM's (Q-Jays / W3's & IE8's) and to my ears there is not a great deal of hiss, not so much that it detracts from my listening enjoyment. It is only noticeable whilst the music is not playing which is pretty much the same as most OpAmps. AD744's with output bypassed and class A has slightly less hiss to my ears, almost un-noticeable.

 On the subject of the AD744's I have to say that although I had them in my OpAmp stock I never considered them anything special, they were ok but didn't exactly stand out. I now have them OBCA and they come a close second to my beloved OPA637's. 637's pip them only because the the majority of music I listen to (electronica) sounds slightly better with the more dynamic 637's. However for people who like acoustics and vocals I think the OBCA 744's have it.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you give us a rundown between the AD743 and AD744? I imagine that putting either in Class A would increase details, and a bit wider soundstage. Output bypass would build upon the class A improvements, right?_

 

That about hit it on the head! There are subtle differences between 743 and 744, but the differences are really in the ear of the beholder. It is impossible to call one better than the other. I do think 744 sounds better with 8201 buffer, whereas 743 seems to favor 8616. 

 So far, I have had no hiss reports from the 744, so maybe that will be the Topkit of choice for owners of ultra-sensitive IEMs. 

 There should be more comparison reports posted fairly soon, I think.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've tried the AD743's both standard and on a DIP Class A Adapter with 3 different IEM's (Q-Jays / W3's & IE8's) and to my ears there is not a great deal of hiss, not so much that it detracts from my listening enjoyment. It is only noticeable whilst the music is not playing which is pretty much the same as most OpAmps. AD744's with output bypassed and class A has slightly less hiss to my ears, almost un-noticeable.

 On the subject of the AD744's I have to say that although I had them in my OpAmp stock I never considered them anything special, they were ok but didn't exactly stand out. I now have them OBCA and they come a close second to my beloved OPA637's. 637's pip them only because the the majority of music I listen to (electronica) sounds slightly better with the more dynamic 637's. However for people who like acoustics and vocals I think the OBCA 744's have it._

 

What buffer do you use with the OPA637?


----------



## SpudHarris

Jamato, apologies I was commenting on the OpAmps only and not the D10, I'm using them with my P3. I guess I was trying to give a little clarity to the fact that the 744's improve substantially with output bypassed and class A. Not my intention to misslead anyone there, I guess that improvement will be apparent in any amp!

 For the record though I'm using the ibasso transistor buffers in my P3 with either 627's or AD 797's, again biased into CA.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About the topkit, I asked this before but never got an answer so just want to try my luck again..
 I will be getting some opamps from a member here (kindly given to me) which is the OPA2350 and I'm just curious what the difference in sound was with AD743? I will be using them with the AD8616 buffers._

 

In general, AD opamps are brighter w/more detail and OPA opamps are darker, smoother and more laid back.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much time do you have on it? 

 Like HiFlight mentioned, try some different opamps but I never found the amp to be too warm, which is a feature I can not stand._

 

To me, the D10 seem to change considerably in the first 250 hours or so. I didn't really care for it the first few hundred hours.


----------



## DoYouRight

Making me more and more fear of buying a D10. But if I did I would take away valuable cash for my B22 build, but I would have instant gratification! Decisions...


----------



## Anouk

Hi, I discovered a problem with my d10 just now. I have noticed for about a week now that the screws near the volume control are a bit loose. today i noticed noticed that the whole front panel was a bit loose. The d10 has spent a lot of time in my bagpack but also a lot of time near my home pc. I also use it with my iriver. When i press the screws near the volume control the signal discords if you know what I mena i t either distorts or stops altogether. This also happens to a lesser extend when i touch the other two screws that fix the front panel into place. This is rather disconcerting to me.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Making me more and more fear of buying a D10. But if I did I would take away valuable cash for my B22 build, but I would have instant gratification! Decisions..._

 

What's the fear? Can you elaborate?


----------



## jonathanjong

Hmm, I can't get the optical to work. I plugged an optical cable into the D10 and my MacBook optical out, but a) there's no option on Sound Prefs to switch to optical, and sound still comes out of my speakers.


----------



## LevA

Are you sure you connected to the headphone in in your macbook? If sound is coming from your macbook speakers there's something wrong with your computer or the cables, as the music should be cut off just like when you plug in your headphones in.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I discovered a problem with my d10 just now. I have noticed for about a week now that the screws near the volume control are a bit loose. today i noticed noticed that the whole front panel was a bit loose. The d10 has spent a lot of time in my bagpack but also a lot of time near my home pc. I also use it with my iriver. When i press the screws near the volume control the signal discords if you know what I mena i t either distorts or stops altogether. This also happens to a lesser extend when i touch the other two screws that fix the front panel into place. This is rather disconcerting to me.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Can you take the small L-shaped tool that comes with the D10 and snug up those loose screws?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I cannot hear hiss using my ES3X/H120/CF/D10/AD743 Topkit combination. 

 The reported hiss does not seem to be present in all D10s with the AD743 Topkit. Only a small percentage of the kits being used have reported hiss as being noticeable, always with very sensitive IEMs. 

 Perhaps they are running full volume with muted input to hear hiss. I don't think it is a problem in normal listening situations, but for those who are sensitive to this issue, I have an alternate D10 Topkit available: (AD744OBCA/EL8201)_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have noticed no downside to biasing the AD743s as Class A. I have not observed any more demand on the batteries in my iRivers. With the AD743CA, the AD8616s still sound fine, with the AD744OBCA, my personal preference is the EL8201. 

 The only downside is that it takes me longer to make them up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That about hit it on the head! There are subtle differences between 743 and 744, but the differences are really in the ear of the beholder. It is impossible to call one better than the other. I do think 744 sounds better with 8201 buffer, whereas 743 seems to favor 8616. 

 So far, I have had no hiss reports from the 744, so maybe that will be the Topkit of choice for owners of ultra-sensitive IEMs. 

 There should be more comparison reports posted fairly soon, I think._

 

Ron, are the opamps you sent me to test the Class A 744 or Class A Output Bypassed 744, or a CA743, etc (my eyes are giving me a hard time tonight)?

 I have a single 8201 that is dead, so I can't use those as buffers. So far with the AD8616 as buffers the original AD743 is a little more transparent, while the CA AD744 has a little more bass but the sound is not quite as clear and transparent. The sound is still good and I plan to keep testing it and other opamps tonight. Timbre and tone are similar, and the CA744 has about half as much hiss as my original AD743 set. The AD743 still has about half as much hiss as my ALO Amphora.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonathanjong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, I can't get the optical to work. I plugged an optical cable into the D10 and my MacBook optical out, but a) there's no option on Sound Prefs to switch to optical, and sound still comes out of my speakers._

 

Jon, you are missing something, in OSX there is in fact somewhere to choose the onboard optical. I thought so, but had to check since I never really use it as my RME has a superior output. plus I tend to use coax if at home anyway. 

 but I went to check 'audio midi setup' which is where you need to go and you should set it up so it looks like this






 see the drop down that says digital out in the audio output so you should choose built in audio and not the D10 USB device and then choose these settings. also make sure the D10 is not connected by USB; I have found the auto-switching to be a bit funky on my unit, it can take a little while to recognize the D10 and I have to unplug and plug it back in to get it to reconize a signal. then if I plug USB in to charge; it will automatically switch to USB operation. pretty annoying. I also have to do this when going portable, if my rig is already all connected u; with the D10 as dac-only running L/O to my Lisa, I cant just turn it on and have it find the output, I have to turn it on, then unplug the L/O and plug it back in again while music is playing.. I wish there was a switch to choose the inputs and outputs.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LeeSC,

 What's the sound difference of D10 compared to p-51? I remember you prefered P-51 sound but was that only comparing amps only or D10 DAC/AMP sound vs P-51?

 Just want to get some idea about the RSA house sound...(now you got me thinking about RSA after your message...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

I gave the two a more serious listening tonight with analog input (iMod) and on ESW10JPN. My D10 has the topkit rolled in and has over 400 hours. My P-51 has over 120 hours or so.

 The two sounds quite close. Trumpet on P-51 sounds brighter and bass is deeper as compare to the D10. I find that P-51 resolve better, I can hear more details in orchestra work (listening to Tchaikovsky 1812 overture). Piano sounds more natural with P-51 (with Rachmaninov Cello Sonata). Overall, I find D10's sound is a little forced.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I gave the two a more serious listening tonight with analog input (iMod) and on ESW10JPN. My D10 has the topkit rolled in and has over 400 hours. My P-51 has over 120 hours or so.

 The two sounds quite close. Trumpet on P-51 sounds brighter and bass is deeper as compare to the D10. I find that P-51 resolve better, I can hear more details in orchestra work (listening to Tchaikovsky 1812 overture). Piano sounds more natural with P-51 (with Rachmaninov Cello Sonata). Overall, I find D10's sound is a little forced._

 

Thanks for that Lee.
 so P-51 edges out the D10 as amp only but have similar sound. I assume once the DAC in D10 comes into the equation through USB/Digital the D10 is more detailed?


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... I plan to keep testing it and other opamps tonight. ..._

 


 Hi HPA,

 How do you find between the OPA2350 and the OPA350 in CA mode?


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_-edit- Overall, I find D10's sound is a little forced._

 

What does "a little forced" mean?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi HPA,

 How do you find between the OPA2350 and the OPA350 in CA mode?_

 

I don't have a pair of OPA350 in CA mode on a 2:1 adapter.

 I left the AD744OBCA in for now - the sound is growing on me and the lower level of hiss is nice - but, the AD743 still has a slight edge in transparency with these buffers. Later today or tomorrow I will try the LMH6643 and if I still have them the LMH6655 as buffers, and maybe the AD8656 and stock ones too.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What does "a little forced" mean?_

 

Does not sound as natural.


----------



## hopeless

The LT1469 will work excellent as a gain stage (provided it's fed with a voltage minimum not much below +/- 5V). Otherwise, the LME49721 is the perfect choice for 6V or so.

 For the buffer, try the OPA2822 - if stable (it's fast), it has a lot of current and sounds quite good (I have used it as a buffer in a headphone amp myself). Power it with up to 12V.


----------



## mattcalf

Sorry if this has been asked before, but as stated on the product page this can be used as a standalone USB Soundcard. Does this mean I can go USB in, coax/optical/aux out without the signal being effected?


----------



## DoYouRight

good question, I would like to know as well.


----------



## pekingduck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mattcalf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this has been asked before, but as stated on the product page this can be used as a standalone USB Soundcard. Does this mean I can go USB in, coax/optical/aux out without the signal being effected?_

 

no coax/optical out.. only aux/headphone out


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does not sound as natural._

 

I agree that there is something slightly more special about listening to the P-51 vs the D10 with topkit. Like I said before, the stock D10 sounds like a Predator with a nicer DAC, and with the topkit it comes "closer" to the P-51. 

 That makes the D10 my best portable DAC/amp and just slightly below my Pico DAC-only/P-51 2-piece combo. It costs about $350 in a D10/topkit vs $700 for a Pico DAC-only/P-51 => double the price for that last 10% in performance.

 If you don't need portable, that $700 can get you a Super Pro DAC707 and Woo WA6 with shipping, and that will sound even better (although USB isn't quite as good, but optical/coax is just as good).


----------



## mattcalf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pekingduck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no coax/optical out.. only aux/headphone out_

 

Cheers for the quick answer.


----------



## hopeless

I see that my suggestions have been received well, so I'll add one more: the TLE2142. Bipolar opamp specified for audio, and specified @ 5V (as well as +/- 15V). It is fast and has a wide output swing. It could be what the doctor ordered, either for the gain stage or for output buffer (30 mA of linear output current, with notable capacitive load drive). For me, it's the next opamp for my DAC


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 That makes the D10 my best portable DAC/amp and just slightly below my Pico DAC-only/P-51 2-piece combo. It costs about $350 in a D10/topkit vs $700 for a Pico DAC-only/P-51 => double the price for that last 10% in performance.
_

 

How about with all the new class A opamp rolling? from the favorable comments I've been reading the difference might be getting even closer..


----------



## jonathanjong

Hmm. Can I charge this doohickey while using it via optical?


----------



## qusp

yeah sure you can, but you will have to plug it in via USB first and then change to optical as it will probably automatically select USB when you plug in the cable. Either than or get one of those AC->USB adapters that come with some phones and other things. and use that with the supplied USB cable, instead of plugging the USB into your computer. that way it wont miss a beat.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree that there is something slightly more special about listening to the P-51 vs the D10 with topkit. Like I said before, the stock D10 sounds like a Predator with a nicer DAC, and with the topkit it comes "closer" to the P-51. 

 That makes the D10 my best portable DAC/amp and just slightly below my Pico DAC-only/P-51 2-piece combo. It costs about $350 in a D10/topkit vs $700 for a Pico DAC-only/P-51 => double the price for that last 10% in performance.

 If you don't need portable, that $700 can get you a Super Pro DAC707 and Woo WA6 with shipping, and that will sound even better (although USB isn't quite as good, but optical/coax is just as good)._

 



 yeah well D10 (dac)->Lisa III sounds considerably better than D10 dac/amp, but thats not really a fair comparison. for more portable listening i'm more than happy with iriver->D10 (OPA2350 with AD8616) 

 Ron: interested in this class A business.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree that there is something slightly more special about listening to the P-51 vs the D10 with topkit._

 

I've compared the D10 topkit combo to the D10 with my SR71 (which is reportedly very similar to the P-51 sound). The SR71 still takes the cake and has the added bonus of being completely black with any IEM I've tried. Unfortunately, the SR71 is too bulky for true portable use.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about with all the new class A opamp rolling? from the favorable comments I've been reading the difference might be getting even closer.._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonathanjong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm. Can I charge this doohickey while using it via optical?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah well D10 (dac)->Lisa III sounds considerably better than D10 dac/amp, but thats not really a fair comparison. for more portable listening i'm more than happy with iriver->D10 (OPA2350 with AD8616) 

 Ron: interested in this class A business._

 

I left the AD744-OBCA in the D120 because of the lower hiss level and just bought a pair of EL8201 to use as buffers, since HiFlight thinks they pair together better than the AD8616 (which are the best buffers for the AD743). from what I understand they will be fairly equivalent once I get the right buffer combo.

 The sound with either AD744-OBCA or AD743 is good enough that it could be my only portable if I didn't have the P-51 or ALO Amphora. The sound is close enough that with my laptop rig and ES3X I use the D10 DAC and amp together, and don't bother to plug the DAC into better amp. With my laptop rig and HD800 I'll use the Pico DAC-only > ALO Amphora. (both DAC/amp setups stay plugged into my Macbook and I can switch between them)

 I keep the P-51 paired with my iMod like I did at CanJam, using a piccolino cable iMod LOD by stevenkelby (slightly better than my jumbo cryo silver x). The Vcap dock is even better but then it doesn't make it very portable, and I don't need it with the Amphora/iMod either.


----------



## rhw

For those who want to change the caps to BlackGates,
 here a little tip and a picture.

 As described by John the space is very limited. It is a close fit.
 You win a little space by turning around (top to bottom) the case of the D10 because there are wells at the bottom (to hold batteries in other iBasso amps).

 I will not comment on the sound because it is all fresh, 24 hours burn in .....
 + presumably I have to change a cap because of a small leak ......


----------



## jamato8

That was a good idea to flip it around but will the batteries still fit? Nice image.


----------



## DoYouRight

excellent squeeze, yea lets hope it all fits.


----------



## sbulack

After a post of some initial observations of the sound through a D10 with a new kit installed ( OBCA AD744 / EL8201 buffers) with Shure SE530 IEMs, I thought I'd post more observations with the SE530 and a few more full-sized phones I've been using with the D10 with this kit installed.

 Wrap-Up Shure SE530 observations:
 My own description of the "hiss" from the D10 with the original Topkit (AD743 / AD8616 buffers) installed with the SE530 was as a subtle, low-level long, slow "exhale" of the D10 - so unobtrusive as to not distract my attention from whatever I'm listening to.

 With the new kit (OBCA AD744 / EL8201 buffers), this background sound is so faint and subtle that I really have to listen for it to hear it at all. It not only does not distract my attention from what I am listening to, I am not even aware of it while listening using the SE530. But, if I make an effort to listen for it, I can detect it in the parts of tracks where no sound is heard. If I don't make that effort, I don't notice it. From this I can say that the new kit offers an improvement in the form of a lower level of this background sonic artifact with sensitive IEMs.

 ALO-Modded SR225 observations:
 I love what the new kit does for singer's voices - they sound spookily present and naturally real. I like a little less what the new kit does for the "crunch" and "chunk" of rock electric guitars. For this particular effect, I prefer the original Topkit (AD743 / AD8616 buffers). Most of the rock that I listen to has great guitars AND vocals. So, overall, I prefer the new kit - the increased naturalness and presence of the vocals adds more than the less optimal presentation of the guitars takes away. For other genres, with these phones, I prefer the sound using the new kit to the original Topkit. The new kit presents less ambient brightness in the sound, which enables the easier, less fatiguing enjoyment of more real detail in the music at lower volumes than with the original Topkit.

 HD650 observations:
 I had posted previously that the D10, with the original Topkit, with the HD650 gave a lot to enjoy, but that the HD650 can do better, and with as modestly priced a desktop amp as the Purity Audio Caliente. With the new kit, that gap has closed by a substantial step. I still enjoy the Caliente more with the HD650 than the D10, but I will also say that the D10 with the new kit gives a good taste of what the HD650 can sound like, with more authority and control in the bass, more naturalness and liquidity in the mids, and capable of more delicacy, refinement and finesse in the highs than with the original Topkit. With this new kit, I can honestly say, with less qualification than previously, that, yes, the D10 can drive the HD650. This goes for every genre of music that I listen to: classical, folk, jazz instrumental, vocal, rock, trip-hop, dream-pop, electronica/dance, trance, ambient, techno, experimental electronica, goth, and the more lyrical and symphonic metal. I think that the main sonic qualities where the Caliente has the edge is in the transparency, spaciousness, and openness of sound through it and in its more even temper in portraying sounds across the entire acoustic spectrum and across a wide range of timbres. It's not as though the D10 with the new kit has a weakness in any of these qualities - it's just that the Caliente (with the HD650) has the edge in them. I'll conclude again with this less qualified opinion than I posted previously: yes, the D10 with the new kit (OBCA AD744 / EL8201 buffers) can drive the HD650 and give the listener a good taste of how this phone can perform.

 What I'm going to try next is the CA AD743 / AD8616 buffers kit with the phones above. I'm especially interested in how the performance of this next kit compares with that of the kit (OBCA AD744 / EL8201 buffers) I'm using now. I will also provide comparisons, where they are noteworthy to me, to the original Topkit (AD743 / AD8616 buffers).


----------



## LevA

Thanks for that sbulack,

 I'm also interested in hearing the CA AD743 / AD8616 vs original topkit (specifically for classical and Jazz) and look forward to your impressions.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The AD744-OBCA are growing on me even more. I look forward to the EL8201 arriving this week to try with them.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That was a good idea to flip it around but will the batteries still fit? Nice image._

 

There is no problem with the battery in the D10.
 Like you described it has to be moved a bit away from the caps.

 The most critical point is where the bigger cap nearby the smaller once touches the buffer.


 //I switches/downgraded from a SLR (down) to a mid-size and now small digital cam. I like what you can get nowadays from relatively cheap and small equipment.


----------



## rhw

I am waiting
 for some AD744-OBCA, too.
 + a set of 228CA, I like to use.
 Ron has soldered fast
 but the postal service is slow.


----------



## denging

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who want to change the caps to BlackGates,
 here a little tip and a picture.

 As described by John the space is very limited. It is a close fit.
 You win a little space by turning around (top to bottom) the case of the D10 because there are wells at the bottom (to hold batteries in other iBasso amps).

 I will not comment on the sound because it is all fresh, 24 hours burn in .....
 + presumably I have to change a cap because of a small leak ......




_

 

Wow, BGNX caps roll, would you kindly share what value of the BGNX caps should we roll to D10? Shouldnt we roll only the signal caps to earn the beneficial value of BGNX? CMIIW, using the BGNX for D10s psu wouldnt it be an overkill?


----------



## rhw

Like John recommended
 2*220uF/6.3V
 2*470uF/6.3V
 That's it.
 Overkill powersupply.


----------



## wolfen68

When I first heard the usage of the term "topkit" I was wondering what would happen as the tweaking continued. Does that mean there is soon to be "topper" and "toppest" kits to go along with the original topkit?


----------



## rhw

TopKit *
 TopKit supreme **
 TopKit sublime **
 TopKit ultimate ***
 TopKit extreme ***

 you can choose. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 * already available
 ** in beta testing
 *** fall/winter 2009


----------



## cofra

-


----------



## cofra

Hi there,

 I've ordered one of these mainly for headamp use. But when reading it seems like it would be a good idea using it like a preamp for my computer speakers as well. Could anyone recommend a small and "fitting" power amplifier for use with this nice thing...?

 /C


----------



## Anouk

Hello, oooh I am looking forward to more impressions from the folks having the new topkits!
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TopKit *
 TopKit supreme **
 TopKit sublime **
 TopKit ultimate ***
 TopKit extreme ***

 you can choose. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 * already available
 ** in beta testing
 *** fall/winter 2009_

 

Actually, the "you can choose" is here now, as I can't really say which is best, and it is difficult to verbalize the subtle differences between types of biasing and different opamps. 

 Reviewing Topkit user feedback via thread posts are probably a better way for someone to make opamp choices rather than relying on my subjective opinions. 

 Yeah, I realize that it is like having a dozen candidates running for elective office, all claiming to be the best qualified for the job!


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TopKit *
 TopKit supreme **
 TopKit sublime **
 TopKit ultimate ***
 TopKit extreme ***

 you can choose. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 * already available
 ** in beta testing
 *** fall/winter 2009_

 

Why doesn't Head Fi just run a reality program: "America's Next Top Kit"? Yeah, I know, lame. But that's all I got.


----------



## LevA

Hey guys,

 Just received the opamps from Nigel (Thanks Nigel!) but now stumped which goes where....

 the problem is i got 1 AD8616 which is soldered onto a brown Dog (or equivalent..have no idea what they would look like..) and one OPA2350..now, I know the AD8616 is the buffer but there is only 1 of them, so which socket do I place it in? or do I need another one??

 thanks in advance!


----------



## SpudHarris

Glad you got them ok! They are both 'Dual' Opamps. I don't have the D10 but assume that as people are using the AD8616 as a buffer you have a central socket. Singles will go side by side and duals should go central. Check the info sheet just to make 100% sure.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys,

 Just received the opamps from Nigel (Thanks Nigel!) but now stumped which goes where....

 the problem is i got 1 AD8616 which is soldered onto a brown Dog (or equivalent..have no idea what they would look like..) and one OPA2350..now, I know the AD8616 is the buffer but there is only 1 of them, so which socket do I place it in? or do I need another one??

 thanks in advance!_

 

IBasso mentioned to me (and others may confirm) that any opamp may be used as buffers or in the L/R socket....at least that is true in theory (some opamps DON'T work in the circuitry of the D10).

 That being said, I know the AD8616 can be used for both L/R and buffer. But you need two ad8616 if you're going to use it as buffer.

 From what I recall, the OPA2350 sounds great in L/R, but I don't have any info if it can work as a buffer.

 So, to recap...since you only have one of each at the moment, you can only use them in L/R.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad you got them ok! They are both 'Dual' Opamps. I don't have the D10 but assume that as people are using the AD8616 as a buffer you have a central socket. Singles will go side by side and duals should go central. Check the info sheet just to make 100% sure._

 

The Buffers don't accept single channel opamps, as far as I know. The iBasso included opamps that may be used as buffers (LMH6643, AD8656 and AD8532) are all dual channel.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad you got them ok! They are both 'Dual' Opamps. I don't have the D10 but assume that as people are using the AD8616 as a buffer you have a central socket. Singles will go side by side and duals should go central. Check the info sheet just to make 100% sure._

 

Hey Nigel!

 thanks for the opamps! 
 need a bit more help how to install them.. where does the 8616 go? there are three sockets like a pyramid shape right? so buffers go to left and right. where do I place this one? either one is ok?

 I figured the opa2350 goes to the single socket above the two buffers..


----------



## LevA

just checked the ibasso owners manual, and nothing on it about opamps rolling or related information......


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IBasso mentioned to me (and others may confirm) that any opamp may be used as buffers or in the L/R socket....at least that is true in theory (some opamps DON'T work in the circuitry of the D10).

 That being said, I know the AD8616 can be used for both L/R and buffer. But you need two ad8616 if you're going to use it as buffer.

 From what I recall, the OPA2350 sounds great in L/R, but I don't have any info if it can work as a buffer.

 So, to recap...since you only have one of each at the moment, you can only use them in L/R._

 

thanks clasam..
 so I need one more Ad8616 if I want to use them as buffers. about OPA2350, whats a good buffer to use them with? any suggestions?


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Nigel!

 thanks for the opamps! 
 need a bit more help how to install them.. where does the 8616 go? there are three sockets like a pyramid shape right? so buffers go to left and right. where do I place this one? either one is ok?

 I figured the opa2350 goes to the single socket above the two buffers.._

 

Hi LevA,

 You're right, when you are looking at the pyramid, with the volume knob pointed to the right, the buffers are on the bottom...

 When installing the opamps, when the opamps are in the socket, the square of the adapter should be in the bottom right corner of the socket

 Here's a picture of an opamp on a brown dog






 Notice the square...that should be in the bottom right of the socket

 Press with your fingernails on the borders of the adapter, *NOT* on the black chip itself (the soldering may break off)

 As far as good buffers for the opa2350...not sure what goes well with the opa2350...I think there might be a suggestion or two in this thread...


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.............................................
 ...............................snip............... .....................

 As far as good buffers for the opa2350...not sure what goes well with the opa2350...I think there might be a suggestion or two in this thread..._

 

The AD8616, EL8201, LMH6655, and AD8397 are all good choices for OPA2350 or dual Class A OPA350 buffers.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD8616, EL8201, LMH6655, and AD8397 are all good choices for OPA2350 or dual Class A OPA350 buffers._

 

thanks hi-flight..


----------



## Anouk

Hello everyone,
 Well my mini to rca cable is here and I have connected my ibasso d10 to my computer. I am pleased to say that it works and it works well too. Its now functioning as my preamp for the time being. Tomorrow my woo will be here and it will just perform dac-only duty at home. It does not sound as good as my ultra desktop of course a bit edgy/scratchy a bit harcher and less bass but not bad though.
 Thanks everyone for the help! I wouldnt know what to do without my d10.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## sLaYDeMOn

Just wondering if anyone knows how much the topkit for the d10 generally costs? Thanks! Trying to get good synergy between my IE8 and my d10


----------



## rhw

I got the new 744 CAOB opamp by Ron. (Great work. Thanks)

 Today I listened a bit to it, compared it to the 743/8616 TopKit.
 For the 744CAOB I choose, prefered the 8656 as buffer.

 It is hard to describe the difference because the sound characteristics are similar.
 Both kits are very transparent, with firm bass, open mids and smooth treble.

 In my ears the 744CAOB is simply a step more open.
 While the 743 sounds more solid, strong,
 the 744CAOB adds some more lightness, airyness to the sound.
 The music becomes more fluid.

 I do not know which one is more true,
 at the moment I appreciate the 744/8565 combination.


----------



## denging

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sLaYDeMOn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering if anyone knows how much the topkit for the d10 generally costs? Thanks! Trying to get good synergy between my IE8 and my d10_

 

Just shoot Ron a PM


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denging* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just shoot Ron a PM_

 

Ron aka HiFlight


----------



## shredder

My first roll of the opamp and buffers.

 I just put in the AD8022 opamp and the AD8616 buffers. 10 mins into the listening now with my Klipsch Custom 3 IEMs. Initial impressions are very good. Much sweeter mids and a more open sound. Its not as forward or direct as the stock amps with the Custom 3s. I'm hearing the engaging sound I was looking for, where you find yourself listening with them, instead of to them... if that makes any sense! Also the detail is good, separated, but not too bright where the "ssss" or "t" or cymbals zap your ears. Bass is there but not overpowering. Mabye smoother. 

 The roll was easier than I had initially thought. I'll be playing with this D10 for some time to come,,, but for now...


----------



## rhw

Together with the 744CAOB,
 I ordered a OPA228CA, because I like the sound signature of the 2227 in my Shek h1.
 With the 228 in L/R and the 8656 as buffers the sound is really very 2227/2228 like.
 Warm, full bodied and transparent (not as transparent as the 743 or 744).
 Together with the Grado RS1 its adding a more solid character to the music
 while the 744 underlines the smoothness of the mids and treble.
 For listeners looking for some tubelike warmth the 228CA might be a choice.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I think my EL8201 are waiting for me to pick up from my mail box, so I can try them with the AD744OBCA.


----------



## DoYouRight

is there a new topkit?


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think my EL8201 are waiting for me to pick up from my mail box, so I can try them with the AD744OBCA._

 

I combined the 744CA-OB with the 8656 (from the D10 kit),
 how does the sound change with the EL8201?


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is there a new topkit?_

 

Maybe.
 744CA-OD, EL8201


 Or simply several opamps to choose from (like Ron mentioned before).
 Ask Ron.


----------



## lxxl

Hello everyone, I just received my iBasso D10 today and I must tell you, I really appreciate the sound of it, and it's only been 2 hours of listening.

 At first I thought there was something wrong, I ran it through optical and I hear all these weird sounds, ended up it was just Dolby Digital Live, turned it off, everything got...awesome.

 Thanks everyone for the info on this, it's a great piece... Especially HeadphoneAddict, for his review, and Hi-Flight for the encouragement.


----------



## Anouk

Hey everyone! The d10 is now functioning as dac-only in my home rig to feed my newly arrived wo wa2. I am amazed what sound can come out of those two together. Very musical and engaging and thats just with stock tubes in the woo.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey everyone! The d10 is now functioning as dac-only in my home rig to feed my newly arrived wo wa2. I am amazed what sound can come out of those two together. Very musical and engaging and thats just with stock tubes in the woo.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Congrats! 

 For the rest of you, I have my EL8201 buffers - plan to install tonight with the AD744-OBCA.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats! 

 For the rest of you, I have my EL8201 buffers - plan to install tonight with the AD744-OBCA._

 

I look forward to your write up on how they sound.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I look forward to your write up on how they sound._

 

The EL8201 buffers are definitely better with the AD744OBCA, while the AD8616 buffers remain the best for the AD743. The sound is very similar between the two topkits, with a very vivid rich and vibrant or musical sound. Eva Cassidy "Live at Blues Alley" and Diana Krall "Live in Paris" both sound wonderful and it puts me right there at the performance.

 The additional bonus is that the AD744OBCA/EL8201 has a much blacker background with my Westone ES3X customs, so I cannot perceive any hiss with them like I can with the first topkit.

 I still have to try this with my RS-1, HD600, D2000 and ESW10, etc. and I will report on those later.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The EL8201 buffers are definitely better with the AD744OBCA, while the AD8616 buffers remain the best for the AD743. The sound is very similar between the two topkits, with a very vivid rich and vibrant or musical sound. Eva Cassidy "Live at Blues Alley" and Diana Krall "Live in Paris" both sound wonderful and it puts me right there at the performance.

 The additional bonus is that the AD744OBCA/EL8201 has a much blacker background with my Westone ES3X customs, so I cannot perceive any hiss with them like I can with the first topkit.

 I still have to try this with my RS-1, HD600, D2000 and ESW10, etc. and I will report on those later._

 

I'd like to try them. Where can I purchase them?


----------



## DoYouRight

do you use the D10 with your HF-2s ever on your macbook?


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you use the D10 with your HF-2s ever on your macbook?_

 

Who has a pair of HF-2s?


----------



## jamato8

There were 24 pair at CanJam.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you use the D10 with your HF-2s ever on your macbook?_

 

When I use headphones with a 1/4" plug, I feed the D10 or Pico DAC into my ALO Amphora, since a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter is a pain in the butt, and sometimes a strain on the jack. So, I have not tried the HF-2 and D10 yet. I plan to tomorrow (#24).

 Most of my full-size phones have been re-terminated for 1/8", since a solid 1/8" to 1/4" is easier to use. The phones with a 4-pin XLR can be used with my APS 4-pin to 1/8" adapter.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I use headphones with a 1/4" plug, I feed the D10 or Pico DAC into my ALO Amphora, since a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter is a pain in the butt, and sometimes a strain on the jack. So, I have not tried the HF-2 and D10 yet. I plan to tomorrow (#24).

 Most of my full-size phones have been re-terminated for 1/8", since a solid 1/8" to 1/4" is easier to use. The phones with a 4-pin XLR can be used with my APS 4-pin to 1/8" adapter._

 

That's interesting.
 I just went the other way around by terminating a 1/4" plug to a recabled HFI and soldering a second 1/4" to 1/8" adapter with Neutrik plugs.
 For use at home I thought the 1/4" plugs to be more solid and switching with the adapter left in the amp more secure.

 Thank you for telling your experience with the opamps and buffer amps in the D10!


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to try them. Where can I purchase them?_

 

Send a mail to Ron, HiFlight.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...

 The additional bonus is that the AD744OBCA/EL8201 has a much blacker background with my Westone ES3X customs, so I cannot perceive any hiss with them like I can with the first topkit.

 ..._

 

Hi HPA,

 For the ES3X application, how do you find between the OPA2350 & 8616 buffer and the AD744OBCA/EL8201 

 Thanks


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Send a mail to Ron, HiFlight._

 

Thanks. I didn't know that they are also sourced from Ron, I'll PM him.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The EL8201 buffers are definitely better with the AD744OBCA, while the AD8616 buffers remain the best for the AD743. The sound is very similar between the two topkits, with a very vivid rich and vibrant or musical sound. Eva Cassidy "Live at Blues Alley" and Diana Krall "Live in Paris" both sound wonderful and it puts me right there at the performance.

 The additional bonus is that the AD744OBCA/EL8201 has a much blacker background with my Westone ES3X customs, so I cannot perceive any hiss with them like I can with the first topkit.

 I still have to try this with my RS-1, HD600, D2000 and ESW10, etc. and I will report on those later._

 

I just switched around opamps in the D10 using my RS 1.
 I played "Bloomy Sunday" and "Afternoon" by Quadro Nuevo.
 With the 744CA-OB (buffer 8656) the acoustic bass in "Bloomy Sunday" is very authentic, you hear every detail, the strings do not sound sharp.
 In comparison the topkit 743/8616 sounds a touch less sweet, at all cooler/colder, more analytical.
 The space with the 744 is a bit more open than the 743.
 Switching to the 228CA (buffer 8656) the bass becomes deeper, while the treble is more like the 743. The space is comparable to the 743.
 In my opinion listening to acoustic instruments, i.e. the guitar in "Afternoon", the 744 is the most balanced opamp of the three. It is the most harmonious.


----------



## helicon1

hey guys, I'm seriously considering the D10 for college after reading all the praise it has got. I'm primarily using the Sony XB700, Denon D7000, and Superfi.3. I was considering the Duet but it seems the difference in price is enormous and I have no use for its other features. So I'd like to know if I buy the D10 will I be happy with the sound or would I have to think about buying an additional amp and just use it for the DAC. I know my question is kinda subjective and depends on person to person, so I'd just like to know everyone's opinions. TIA.


----------



## wuwhere

I searched Head-Fi for any AD744 class A biased. I found this review

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/1377086-post1.html


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I searched Head-Fi for any AD744 class A biased. I found this review

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/1377086-post1.html_

 

Thanks for the link.
 Very nice description of the sound characters.
 I hear a silky touch in the 744 CA OB.
 The 743 clearer. The 228 CA darker than the 743.


----------



## HiFlight

I think you would be very pleased with the D10, as it is a superb amp with a DAC to match. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicon1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys, I'm seriously considering the D10 for college after reading all the praise it has got. I'm primarily using the Sony XB700, Denon D7000, and Superfi.3. I was considering the Duet but it seems the difference in price is enormous and I have no use for its other features. So I'd like to know if I buy the D10 will I be happy with the sound or would I have to think about buying an additional amp and just use it for the DAC. I know my question is kinda subjective and depends on person to person, so I'd just like to know everyone's opinions. TIA._


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the link.
 Very nice description of the sound characters.
 I hear a silky touch in the 744 CA OB.
 The 743 clearer. The 228 CA darker than the 743._

 

I just ordered them from Ron. I look forward to listening to them with my ER4S, the IEM he used to review the different opamps.


----------



## DoYouRight

HeadphoneAddict, its tomorrow now, can you let me know the results?


----------



## meta21

I odered one over their own web site. But I don't even have an e-mail confirmation. Very very strange. I paid by Paypal and holp for the best.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *meta21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I odered one over their own web site. But I don't even have an e-mail confirmation. Very very strange. I paid by Paypal and holp for the best._

 

That was my experience as well. No e-mail confirmation of the order being placed. I DID get an email when the item was shipped, containing a DHL tracking number. And three business days later, the D10 was at my door.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi HPA,

 For the ES3X application, how do you find between the OPA2350 & 8616 buffer and the AD744OBCA/EL8201 

 Thanks_

 

I like both, but prefer the detail and space of the 744/8201 more. I don't think I will be changing this out for a while. It also sounds good with my Grado HF-2 using a silver wire 1/8" adapter that audiocats made.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicon1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys, I'm seriously considering the D10 for college after reading all the praise it has got. I'm primarily using the Sony XB700, Denon D7000, and Superfi.3. I was considering the Duet but it seems the difference in price is enormous and I have no use for its other features. So I'd like to know if I buy the D10 will I be happy with the sound or would I have to think about buying an additional amp and just use it for the DAC. I know my question is kinda subjective and depends on person to person, so I'd just like to know everyone's opinions. TIA._

 

I've compared the D10 to the Duet for a couple of weeks back in February, and thought they were on a similar performance level, so the D10 is a real bargain and can be used on mac and PC, unlike the Duet. The D10 will be enough for the D7000 and Super.fi but I have never tried the Sony headphones and can't comment. Later, if you get an HD600/650/800 you can add a desktop amp to the D10's DAC and have a nice rig.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, yes I can indeed confirm that the d10 functions very good as a dac in a desktop rig since I am using that right now myself to feed my woo wa2. Of course, some costlier dac (although I am not sure by how much costlier, it might be quite a lot) might do better but I think this still works quite well and does sound good.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## csh08

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, yes I can indeed confirm that the d10 functions very good as a dac in a desktop rig since I am using that right now myself to feed my woo wa2. Of course, some costlier dac (although I am not sure by how much costlier, it might be quite a lot) might do better but I think this still works quite well and does sound good.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Very glad to hear the D10 stands up as a DAC only - I have a TTVJ FET-A on the way and have been wondering if the D10 would be a good match or I would need to upgrade my DAC also.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, Well I am not saying you should never upgrade your dac, but it will be very satisfactory to begin with.
 Greetings, Anouk


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like both, but prefer the detail and space of the 744/8201 more. I don't think I will be changing this out for a while. It also sounds good with my Grado HF-2 using a silver wire 1/8" adapter that audiocats made._

 

Thank you very much for your reply!


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like both, but prefer the detail and space of the 744/8201 more. I don't think I will be changing this out for a while. It also sounds good with my Grado HF-2 using a silver wire 1/8" adapter that audiocats made._

 

Hi Larry,
 I use the 744 with a 8656 buffer.
 Do you think the EL8201 will be a big jump?

 Many thanks for sharing your listening experience!


----------



## roy_jones

I've got a D10 coming that I will likely be using as a DAC for a KICAS amp at least temporarily. It seems as though USB technology is still in a stage of relative infancy and I figure this might be an adequate stop-gap for a year or so. Sorta on the fence between this and a DACmagic. 

 A quick question: I've got an older desktop that I'm hoping to use as a transport. I don't believe it has USB 2.0 and I'm wondering if it's necessary for operation with the D10? It has 'older' USB and I'm hoping that will be sufficient.


----------



## rhw

Generally usb-audio uses usb 1.x.


----------



## roy_jones

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Generally usb-audio uses usb 1.x._

 

Okay, I figured I should be alright, but thanks for the clarification...


----------



## DoYouRight

They need to get 24/96 over usb standard. Instead of having to go around all these shannanigans for 24/96 to play a Vinyl FLAC rip.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They need to get 24/96 over usb standard. Instead of having to go around all these shannanigans for 24/96 to play a Vinyl FLAC rip._

 

Does anyone know what the current limitations are that are preventing 24/96 playback?


----------



## DoYouRight

you need drivers to permit the bandwidth on usb 2.0. Benchmark, PS Audio, and a handful of others have it. Very few and most are 1000$+


----------



## roy_jones

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you need drivers to permit the bandwidth on usb 2.0. Benchmark, PS Audio, and a handful of others have it. Very few and most are 1000$+_

 

I'm hoping that the technology trickle-down effect will be such that the proprietary wavelength converter will be available in a generic form for lower priced DAC's in the relatively near future. Hence the decision to avoid going all out on a USB DAC at this stage...

 It's probably a couple of years off, though.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Larry,
 I use the 744 with a 8656 buffer.
 Do you think the EL8201 will be a big jump?

 Many thanks for sharing your listening experience!_

 

yes. to me the 8656 are too bright as buffers.


----------



## DoYouRight

probably, im hoping i could just pop in a usb reciever when it happens to my buffalo32s when it's done.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you need drivers to permit the bandwidth on usb 2.0. Benchmark, PS Audio, and a handful of others have it. Very few and most are 1000$+_

 

I wonder if they can license some from one of the companies involved with recording music. Even some of the most basic, sub $100 dollar usb interfaces can hit 24/96

 As an example, M-Audio Transit USB | Sweetwater.com

 Only $80 bucks...


----------



## LevA

has anyone tried their D10 with AKG 501? 
 Just want to know if they pair OK as I heard the 501's need good amp..

 thanks.


----------



## hockeyb213

I am thinking of trading away my highly modded balanced zhaolu 2.5 to get a ibasso d10 for my rig. Would be macbook pro > d10 dac > sr-71a > jh-13's and the d10 could double as a stand alone if I am on the go with my computer


----------



## meta21

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That was my experience as well. No e-mail confirmation of the order being placed. I DID get an email when the item was shipped, containing a DHL tracking number. And three business days later, the D10 was at my door._

 

Just as you said.

 Thanks lots!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Larry,
 I use the 744 with a 8656 buffer.
 Do you think the EL8201 will be a big jump?

 Many thanks for sharing your listening experience!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hockeyb213* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am thinking of trading away my highly modded balanced zhaolu 2.5 to get a ibasso d10 for my rig. Would be macbook pro > d10 dac > sr-71a > jh-13's and the d10 could double as a stand alone if I am on the go with my computer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yes


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes. to me the 8656 are too bright as buffers._

 

Thank you very much.
 (8201 ordered
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## hockeyb213

man that is as good as I can make my portable rig for right now I am done after the ibasso lol unless the shadow or pico slim eventually makes an appearance and proves itself against my 71a :\


----------



## lhamp

Sorry if this has been discussed (don't have time to read whole thread and can't find in search)... but has anyone had trouble receiving their amp after ordering it? I ordered via their site 8 days ago... got a paypal receipt, but haven't heard from ibasso... no confirmation... no tracking number.... emailed them twice and haven't heard back.

 Very frustrating.


----------



## Nosgis

I didn't get a confirmation or tracking number either when I ordered. But I did get a tracking number when it had shipped, about a week later.

 Support has always answered me within 24 hours by e-mail (on working days).


----------



## hockeyb213

Does anyone know what a good number is for burn in time on the d10? I would like to burn it in along with some other stuff when it pops in whenever I get it.


----------



## DoYouRight

For the USB issue, I am thinking I will put a M-Audio transit inside my Buffalo chassis to wire a short spdif to the buffalo and have the usb end of the transit attached to the chassis. So it wont have to have a dongle outside the box.


----------



## RASeymour

I took Larry's advice and did a 300 burn-in. Seemed to work well for me.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

This AD744OBCA/EL8201 opamp combo is sounding great with the HD800 - very detailed, musical and transparent sounding.

 There are some recordings where there isn't enough volume with HD800 before clipping (usually electronic), but others where it will go go more than loud enough and can almost go full volume and stay clean (usually my jazz recordings).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

This AD744OBCA/EL8201 opamp combo is sounding great with the HD800 - very detailed, musical and transparent sounding.

 There are some recordings where there isn't enough volume with HD800 before clipping (usually electronic), but others where it will go go more than loud enough and can almost go full volume and stay clean (usually my jazz recordings).


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This AD744OBCA/EL8201 opamp combo is sounding great with the HD800 - very detailed, musical and transparent sounding.

 There are some recordings where there isn't enough volume with HD800 before clipping (usually electronic), but others where it will go go more than loud enough and can almost go full volume and stay clean (usually my jazz recordings)._

 

Not bad for an inexpensive little portable amp!!


----------



## bakhtiar

Yes, inexpensive AND tweakable little portable amp. You can get several sound signatures just by opamp rolling


----------



## hockeyb213

Well I have been convinced I am going to buy a d10 mainly for it's dac usage with the amp as a secondary bonus. I may get that top kit as well if I decide I want to use it solo enough.


----------



## helicon1

oh lol sorry i didn't reply, I thought the thread hadn't moved and then I checked two new pages had been added. Anyway thank you very much for the advice and I'm planning to def get my D10. I just wanted to know how long would it take to arrive and what is the shipping to the states like?


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This AD744OBCA/EL8201 opamp combo is sounding great with the HD800 - very detailed, musical and transparent sounding.

 There are some recordings where there isn't enough volume with HD800 before clipping (usually electronic), but others where it will go go more than loud enough and can almost go full volume and stay clean (usually my jazz recordings)._

 

So Nice, you said it Twice


----------



## GTL

I tried the pico DAC/AMP and the D10 DAC/AMP(stock opamps usb out) with an Edition 8 last week and found the pico to be far superior. Is the optical out from the D10 so much better than it can be better than the pico? Or is the D10 only better with IEMs?


----------



## roy_jones

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GTL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried the pico DAC/AMP and the D10 DAC/AMP(stock opamps usb out) with an Edition 8 last week and found the pico to be far superior. Is the optical out from the D10 so much better than it can be better than the pico? Or is the D10 only better with IEMs?_

 

Interesting. I've read some conflicting reports about the relative merits of these two dacs. A lot of people talk about the pico as competing with $1000 dacs, but I don't notice the same talk about the D10 being revered as a source in the same way. Not saying who is right...just pointing out an observed discrepancy.


----------



## DoYouRight

picos are sexy beasts. But 2x the price.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GTL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried the pico DAC/AMP and the D10 DAC/AMP(stock opamps usb out) with an Edition 8 last week and found the pico to be far superior. Is the optical out from the D10 so much better than it can be better than the pico? Or is the D10 only better with IEMs?_

 

The below is assuming the D10 is burned in with at least 300 hours.

 DAC - the D10's DAC via optical seemed to be on a similar level to the Pico's DAC via USB, in terms of detail, space and ambience. The D10 via USB is very close behind the Pico (as a DAC). The D10 with optical DAC and native 24/96 bitrate files seemed to move very slightly above the Pico's detail and space and ambience.

 AMP - the amps sound different, where the D10 is kinda like a Predator clone and is more forward than the Pico amp. The D10 (stock opamps) is a little fuller in the mids, while the Pico is a little more distant sounding (but not cavernous or sucked out sounding at all). So, some headphones have better synergy with one amp than another, and some people like a particular sound and others like a different sound. Also, I am wondering how many hours the D10 had on it, because it does improve a bit with 300 hours on it. Most reports on the Pico say it doesn't need much in the way of burn-in.

 If you go back to my review - I go into detail with what I heard using both IEM and full size phones that were on hand at the time of my reviews, and you can get an idea of where one amp may excel or not with various headphones. However, I say over and over in this thread - the top tier amps are so close to each other that it is more of a question of preference and features than what is better or worse than the others.

 To add to that: The D10 with different opamps can sound more neutral or more colored, depending on what opamps you pick (see big D10 thread for opamp discussions). Changing the D10 opamps to the AD744 output-bypassed class-A biased on a 2:1 adapter plus EL8201 buffers and listening to my Westone ES3X is stunning. This makes it a more neutral but still very musical amp, with more open soundstage and little coloration (less flavor of it's own). The depth and space and transparency and accuracy of timbre and tone can be amazing with my ES3X. I think the D10 takes another step ahead of the rest at this point, but still the Pico is not very far behind as a DAC/amp combo. To me the only problem is this - if you want to use a 300+ ohm headphone like HD600 or HD800 and like to listen to music very loud, then the D10 could use a bit more power even though the sound is great at moderate volumes (with the above opamps). It just doesn't have the voltage swing to properly amp an HD series headphone as a desktop replacement.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. I've read some conflicting reports about the relative merits of these two dacs. A lot of people talk about the pico as competing with $1000 dacs, but I don't notice the same talk about the D10 being revered as a source in the same way. Not saying who is right...just pointing out an observed discrepancy._

 

I have read of the two dacs being comparable so you can take it from there. I have not heard the Pico dac so I can't say. The dac chips are the same but the implementation is a little different.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hockeyb213* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have been convinced I am going to buy a d10 mainly for it's dac usage with the amp as a secondary bonus. I may get that top kit as well if I decide I want to use it solo enough._

 

I bought a D10, intending to use it exclusively for its DAC, in my work rig with my SR-71A amp. And I have used it in that way with the SR-71A. With any of the various D10 Topkits under discussion rolled in, I am using the D10 solo. The two-box solution produces a slightly better sound, but the difference is not worth the daily setup and takedown of two boxes versus one. And there is plenty of WOW!!! factor from the D10 solo with either of my work phones: PK1 or SE530.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. I've read some conflicting reports about the relative merits of these two dacs. A lot of people talk about the pico as competing with $1000 dacs, but I don't notice the same talk about the D10 being revered as a source in the same way. Not saying who is right...just pointing out an observed discrepancy._

 

To my ears, the Pico sounds better when driving another amplifier's input than when driving headphones, and it is pretty darn good with headphones. The Pico DAC/amp sounds gorgeous as a DAC/Preamp for my Woo GES and Stax O2 or HE60. The Pico DAC-only (to my ears) has even a little better depth and detail than that. However, I had several people listen to my Woo GES fed by the D10 optical DAC over the past few months, and in an A/B comparison to the Pico DAC/amp they could not tell whether I was using the Pico or the D10 to feed the signal into the GES.


----------



## hockeyb213

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought a D10, intending to use it exclusively for its DAC, in my work rig with my SR-71A amp. And I have used it in that way with the SR-71A. With any of the various D10 Topkits under discussion rolled in, I am using the D10 solo. The two-box solution produces a slightly better sound, but the difference is not worth the daily setup and takedown of two boxes versus one. And there is plenty of WOW!!! factor from the D10 solo with either of my work phones: PK1 or SE530._

 

I don't know I really like the signature of my 71a and I don't mind carrying both on me. I think I will have rigs for my ipod where 71a is exclusive then I may use the d10 exclusive with my mac on the go but I really would like the d10 for the dac I am really a fan of the 71a's signature and would like to continue to use it. That being said I am probably going to buy the d10 tomorrow. I know I can make the d10 have a warm signature like the 71a but why play when I already have what I like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 Will probably get a bluejeans mini-mini to jump the signal from the d10 into the 71a.


----------



## bakhtiar

Ok, 1 question. If we opamp rolling the D10, do the LINE-OUT's sound signature changes too?


----------



## hockeyb213

I believe the op-amps effect the signature of anything as long as it is going through the amp section. So if the line-out bypasses it then no. But if it doesn't then yes.


----------



## bakhtiar

Ok, got it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

 BTW, there must be a opamps+buffers combination which the sound signature is similar to SR-71A. If yes, then you will get a good DAC and AMP with the sound signature you prefer.


----------



## roy_jones

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To my ears, the Pico sounds better when driving another amplifier's input than when driving headphones, and it is pretty darn good with headphones. The Pico DAC/amp sounds gorgeous as a DAC/Preamp for my Woo GES and Stax O2 or HE60. The Pico DAC-only (to my ears) has even a little better depth and detail than that. However, I had several people listen to my Woo GES fed by the D10 optical DAC over the past few months, and in an A/B comparison to the Pico DAC/amp they could not tell whether I was using the Pico or the D10 to feed the signal into the GES._

 

That jives with what you've said before about the relative performance of optical compared to usb with the D10, as well as the earlier posters observations using only USB with the pico and D10. He seemed to suggest a larger difference in their relative USB performance, but it's still basically in line with the general sentiment. 

 I remember in your review that you'd tried to setup a meet to do source comparisons and that the D10 hadn't performed on the level you'd been expecting. I'm assuming that it's a subsequent evaluation that has shown the two to be very close...?

 Did the second evaluation shed any light for you, in retrospect, as to the cause of the problem with the first meet? I remember you'd suggested that it could've been the result of not using the D10 as a pre-amp, but I'm a little foggy on the details. 




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulak* 
_I bought a D10, intending to use it exclusively for its DAC, in my work rig with my SR-71A amp. And I have used it in that way with the SR-71A. With any of the various D10 Topkits under discussion rolled in, I am using the D10 solo. The two-box solution produces a slightly better sound, but the difference is not worth the daily setup and takedown of two boxes versus one. And there is plenty of WOW!!! factor from the D10 solo with either of my work phones: PK1 or SE530._

 

I believe that you own a KICAS, right? I have a KICAS that I haven't been able to use yet, but am curious about the degree of difference you perceive between the D10 amp and the KICAS.

 My plan has been to use the D10 as a DAC feeding the KICAS as a home setup, with a pair of Grado HF-2's as my primary phone. I'm still wrestling with whether to keep the D10 or go with a non-portable DAC-only solution. I like the versatility of the D10 for potential future portable use, but that will still be a while away for me...


----------



## hockeyb213

Yeah I am going the other way selling my fully balanced modded zhaolu 2.5 dac to go down to a d10 because I am focusing on my portable rig now.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That jives with what you've said before about the relative performance of optical compared to usb with the D10, as well as the earlier posters observations using only USB with the pico and D10. He seemed to suggest a larger difference in their relative USB performance, but it's still basically in line with the general sentiment. 

 I remember in your review that you'd tried to setup a meet to do source comparisons and that the D10 hadn't performed on the level you'd been expecting. I'm assuming that it's a subsequent evaluation that has shown the two to be very close...?

 Did the second evaluation shed any light for you, in retrospect, as to the cause of the problem with the first meet? I remember you'd suggested that it could've been the result of not using the D10 as a pre-amp, but I'm a little foggy on the details. 
_

 

In the one comparison where the D10 coax input didn't fare well vs other DACs, we tried to use an SPDIF distribution center to feed one transport into 6 DACS. We were using a mishmash of digital cables to the box and to each DAC, and various analog interconnects to connect the DACs back to a preamp, and then another mix and match of interconnects to connect 3-4 different amps to the pre-amp. And then several listeners trying the DACs, but none of us had the same amp or headphones to listen with (trying to have 4 people listen at the same time). I was using a SPC video cable as my coax input cable, and don't even recall the interconnects we used to connect the DAC to the pre-amp. There is no way it could be a fair comparison.

 The D10's DAC via optical is closer to the Pico's DAC via USB, than the D10's USB DAC is to the Pico. The D10's DAC only pulls ahead of the Pico's DAC (in areas like micro-detail, space, ambience, soundstage) when using optical with native 24/96 files. There is a slight improvement in dynamics and liveliness to the D10 output when using the headphone-out to drive the other amp rather than the D10 line out - but that may be due to the difference in output levels - the D10 line-out is fairly soft compared to other DACs with a line out only. The D10 headphone out in high gain at max volume is closer to the output level of the Pico DAC-only line out.


----------



## roy_jones

Yeah, now that you recapped some of the issues with the initial evaluation of the D10 DAC, the problems you experienced are coming back to me. It can be tricky to get good evaluations of sources under meet conditions. 

 Your comments about the relative magnitude of difference between the pico and D10, depending on whether they're being compared via USB or, in the case of the D10, optical, sounds consistent and gels with what I've read elsewhere. 

 It seems Justin is to be congratulated on his successful USB implementation, as it could be argued that achieving excellent sound quality via USB is technically more difficult than doing so over more conventional connections. I think if I were having to use USB exclusively, I would lean more towards the pico. 


 hockeyb213, I noticed your zhaolu FS and was curious about it given your interest in a D10, but I actually own a modded zhaolu that arrived damaged, and that experience has caused me to be cautious about the idea of possibly repeating that experience, as irrational as that fear likely is. 

 Does your zhaolu have a zapfiltered discrete output? I'm guessing not, but have heard that it makes a tremendous difference. I actually heard one at a meet, but as I said earlier, I find evaluating sources under meet conditions to be tricky. Long time ago, too.


----------



## roy_jones

dbl post


----------



## hockeyb213

um I would have to ask fallenangel he was the one who popped all the mods into it. It sounds fantastic I just have no reason for it anymore I need a portable dac for my portable rig now but the fact it is balanced makes it stand out from a normal one


----------



## Anouk

Hello, Well I am temporary using the d10 only because I have noise problems with my woo and dx1000. I must say thought he d10 sounds VERY good with the dx1000 which is 64 ohm and 105db. 
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## lastdodobird

Is it worth getting the D10 over the D3 even if you aren't planning to use the optical or coaxial?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lastdodobird* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it worth getting the D10 over the D3 even if you aren't planning to use the optical or coaxial?_

 

I would say so. The D10 can be recharged via USB, whereas the D3 is AAA cells only. No recharge capablitlity. (you can use rechargeable AAAs, but they need to be removed to charge externally) This may or may not be a deciding factor for you.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lastdodobird* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it worth getting the D10 over the D3 even if you aren't planning to use the optical or coaxial?_

 

That's your personal decision.
 The D10 sounds a touch more open and natural with the right opamp than the D3. The D3 has similar qualities like transparence ......
 With the 5 AAA batteries or rechargeables the D3 has more power than the D10, lasting for a longer time.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, Well I am temporary using the d10 only because I have noise problems with my woo and dx1000. I must say thought he d10 sounds VERY good with the dx1000 which is 64 ohm and 105db. 
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Oh, you have a DX1000 now, Anouk.
 How does it compare to your Ultrasone on the D10?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lastdodobird* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it worth getting the D10 over the D3 even if you aren't planning to use the optical or coaxial?_

 

The D10 sounds better than D3, regardless of the input you use.


----------



## jamato8

The D10 while having a minor amount of hiss that in no way gets into the music, sounds very fine with the JH13's.


----------



## lastdodobird

A couple of other questions: 

 1) If I accidentally fry the D10 while opamp rolling (even using the chips they provided), that voids the warrany, no? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 2) How long would you guys recommend using the D10 before opening it to do opamp rolling?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would say so. The D10 can be recharged via USB, whereas the D3 is AAA cells only. No recharge capablitlity. (you can use rechargeable AAAs, but they need to be removed to charge externally) This may or may not be a deciding factor for you._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's your personal decision.
 The D10 sounds a touch more open and natural with the right opamp than the D3. The D3 has similar qualities like transparence ......
 With the 5 AAA batteries or rechargeables the D3 has more power than the D10, lasting for a longer time._

 

Thanks! The battery life won't be a problem I think, since a way to recharge the D10 will always be accessible to me. I can always charge it while I'm asleep. Hehe.

 Although one concern I have regarding the battery though: How long will it take before you will need to change the battery of the D10, and where should you look for one? Will iBasso be able to provide it?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D10 sounds better than D3, regardless of the input you use._

 

Great! Just the type of short and concise answer I was looking for, LOL


----------



## hvu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lastdodobird* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2) How long would you guys recommend using the D10 before opening it to do opamp rolling?_

 

The best way to change opamp is to ground yourself with a grounded wrist strap.
 Also if you want to be extra safe just put the amp and stuff on a static bag.


----------



## lastdodobird

^ What does that protect against?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The best way to change opamp is to ground yourself with a grounded wrist strap.
 Also if you want to be extra safe just put the amp and stuff on a static bag.



_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lastdodobird* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ What does that protect against?_

 

Dude, it prevents static discharge from frying the amp.


----------



## lastdodobird

Wow, it's that dangerous to roll opamps, eh?


----------



## Anouk

Hi Rhw! I have the dx1000 but I have decided to go open phone for hom euse so it is already sold. I must say thought hat it is the best sounding closed phone that I have had, i prefer it to the pro900 with the d10 although it does sound even better (wider soundstage, more open) with my woo, despite the problems I am having. It is more ocmfortabl ethen the pro900 but the good thing about the pro900 is that you can fold it up and that it is very rugged so you can use it on the road, i would not recommend this with the jvc.
 It should be fairly easy to get the jvc and I do not think (although I might be wrong) that the new price of the jvc and pro900 is very different. If you are looking for a close dphone fo rhome use I would really recommend the jvc. I know a lot of people say that a portable amp is not enough for these, but I disagree.
 Greetings, Anouk,.


----------



## fuseboxx

I'm also curious as to how dangerous it is to roll opamps.

 What are the chances that you're going to fry your amp if you're a newbie without the proper gear?

 Is there a good tutorial anywhere here? Will try to google and search around as well.


----------



## LevA

here you go. from an old post on this thread that takes you step by step. This is what I used when opamp rolling....

 hope it helps.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jetlaged* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How to dissasemble and reasemble the D10 without trauma.

 Front of the Unit is the side which has the volume control knob.

*Caution:* 
 1). Ensure that you have grounded your fingers before touching any board mounted object. Do not touch board pins or circuitry with fingers or with metallic objects to prohibit electrical damage due to static electricity.
 2). Do not over torque the faceplate retaining screws as the housing threads are easily stripped.

Dissasembly;
 After removing the front four faceplate securing screws, (on the volume knob side) push on the coax receptacle at the rear end with finger, this slides the main board out far enough until it can be gripped by the SIDES between thumb and forefinger to gently pull the main board further out, about 3~4 cm, enough to acccess the three IC's only.
 Don't pull on the volume knob to remove the board, this will stress the volume potentiometer (pot), and the volume knob might pull off it's mount shaft, it's only fixed with a dab of glue.

Removal and Orientation of opamp (1 of), and Buffers (2 of) in DIP soctkets;
 Use long nose pliers only on the sides of the opamp and buffer IC boards to wiggle and pull the opamps and buffers loose, lift the IC's vertically to remove from DIP boards, or use a non metallic object to gently pry and symmetrically lift the IC's clear of their respective DIP sockets.
 For correct orientation of the IC amp and the DIP socket line up the little "half circle" that's printed on the side of each IC amp board, and on the recipient DIP socket there's a little "half circle" that is missing from one side of the DIP socket.

Reassembly;
 When sliding the main board back into its receptacle ensure that the plugs and respective cutaways on the rear-end are correctly lined up so that the LED's and USB plug are correctly seated and that the main board doesn't protrude a tiny bit at the front which will prevent the front faceplate from seating correctly.

 If you're struggling to realign the rear faceplate cut-outs with board components loosen the rear faceplate retaining screws just enough so that the rear faceplate is loose, seat the board and rear faceplate correctly and re-tighten the rear faceplate screws. Re-align the front faceplate, refit the screws.


and I now await the howls of derision for this post as it's of no use at *"The End"*_


----------



## Tidus

Can feed Dac of D10 24bit/96 and 24bit/196 Khz???

 thanx


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tidus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can feed Dac of D10 24bit/96_

 

 yes
  Quote:


 and 24bit/196 Khz??? 
 

well you can feed it to it 24/192, but it will downsample to 24/96 I think; i'll double check that and get back to you. optical will not support 24/192 under normal circumstances (well not the receiver in the D10 AFAIK) coax may, as the WM8740 supports it; i'll check and update tomorrow. of course i'm not sure whether i'll be able to tell for sure since my ears arent that golden. I have not reliably been able to pick 24/192 DAC from 24/96 DAC previously; 24/192 ADC is easier to pick so yeah whether I will be able to tell if its been downsampled by the circuit or not we shall see


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm also curious as to how dangerous it is to roll opamps.

 What are the chances that you're going to fry your amp if you're a newbie without the proper gear?

 Is there a good tutorial anywhere here? Will try to google and search around as well._

 

It is really not dangerous. Using a ground strap to ground yourself first ensures that you don't zap the circuit board with ESD (electro-static discharge). People working at electronic manufacturing use ground straps all the time.

 This is the one I use. That alligator clip is attached to a banana clip. I just pull out the alligator clip and insert the banana clip to the ground of my ac receptacle.


----------



## lastdodobird

How big is the difference in SQ when using Optical vs Coax vs USB?

 Negligible? Small? Significant? Huge?


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Rhw! I have the dx1000 but I have decided to go open phone for hom euse so it is already sold. I must say thought hat it is the best sounding closed phone that I have had, i prefer it to the pro900 with the d10 although it does sound even better (wider soundstage, more open) with my woo, despite the problems I am having. It is more ocmfortabl ethen the pro900 but the good thing about the pro900 is that you can fold it up and that it is very rugged so you can use it on the road, i would not recommend this with the jvc.
 It should be fairly easy to get the jvc and I do not think (although I might be wrong) that the new price of the jvc and pro900 is very different. If you are looking for a close dphone fo rhome use I would really recommend the jvc. I know a lot of people say that a portable amp is not enough for these, but I disagree.
 Greetings, Anouk,._

 

Thanks for your statement.
 I also had the DX-1000 for a weekend and liked it (even not burned in),
 but I nevertheless sent it back. At the moment I use a HFI 780 (already cable and damping modded). It is not really comfortable for me.
 I think I prefer the open phones, too.
 Curious to get the HF-2 sometimes late summer.


----------



## hvu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm also curious as to how dangerous it is to roll opamps.

 What are the chances that you're going to fry your amp if you're a newbie without the proper gear?

 Is there a good tutorial anywhere here? Will try to google and search around as well._

 

It is not that dangerous to roll opamps and it just a little precautions just to be safe.
 If you don't have a ground strap and static bag you can find it at basically any electronic store and cost no more that $10 all together.


----------



## wuwhere

I received from HiFlight (Ron) the Topkit (AD744/EL8201) from the mail today. Installed it and have been listening to it the last 3.5 hours. Its good, really good, well worth it.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, I got to say, I listened to my iriver h120/ibasso d10 via optical and connected my d10 via lineout to my woo wa2. That last bit gave a bit of trouble I guess because of the automatic switching chip inside the d10. Usb/lineout is no trouble but optical lineout takes a bit to get recognized. Anyway the sound was VERY good and caused me to cancel the sale of my iriver once more. I really want to get a laptop with optical output now (my d10 is functioning as a temporary dac for me at home).
 I think the lineout is a lot better then the amp of the d10+dac. Not that hte stock amp is anything to sneeze at lineout i sjust better imho if fed to my woo.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## hvu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received from HiFlight (Ron) the Topkit (AD744/EL8201) from the mail today. Installed it and have been listening to it the last 3.5 hours. Its good, really good, well worth it._

 

I was wondering is they only one type/set of top kit or are they different kinds of top kits?
 If so does the price varies between them?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering is they only one type/set of top kit or are they different kinds of top kits?
 If so does the price varies between them?_

 

I don't know if there are different kinds. I only bought the AD744/EL8201 combo. And these are excellent. They make the D10 sound like a different amp. Not night and day but very discernable. On my ER4S, the upper bass is very taut and tuneful.


----------



## rasmushorn

WOW I just got this Amp in Singapore on a special offer. It sounds so much better than expected. Specially the optical out from my mac book is fantastic. Now I have to find out what people say about the different OPamps. I do not think I can find the time to play with them all and run them in. So I am hoping to find comments of them here in this thread. What a great piece of electronics.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering is they only one type/set of top kit or are they different kinds of top kits?
 If so does the price varies between them?_

 

At the moment Ron offers two TopKits.
 AD743/8616 (maybe 743CA, too)
 and
 AD744OB-CA/EL8201
 (CA=Class A, OB=Open Bias)

 Larry has posted some appropriate descriptions of the sound characteristics in this thread.

 The 744 is more difficult to solder, therefore the kit will be more expensive.
 Ask Ron/HiFlight!


----------



## Anouk

I just wanted to say that I find it funny that I wuthere and rhw both joined head-fi around the seem time about a year ago.
 Yes, I really want a laptop with optical output.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just wanted to say that I find it funny that I wuthere and rhw both joined head-fi around the seem time about a year ago.
 Yes, I really want a laptop with optical output.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Yes, indeed, that is funny.
 (I recognized this today, too.)
 [A MacBookPro is really great - not only - for audio
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





]


----------



## r31t0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rasmushorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW I just got this Amp in Singapore on a special offer. It sounds so much better than expected. Specially the optical out from my mac book is fantastic. Now I have to find out what people say about the different OPamps. I do not think I can find the time to play with them all and run them in. So I am hoping to find comments of them here in this thread. What a great piece of electronics._

 

hey!! rasmuhhorn where u get the special offer? interested to get 1 too thanks!


----------



## r31t0

Hey rasmushorn... where u get the D10 at special offer? interested to get 1 too!


----------



## fuseboxx

I'll probably defer from rolling the opamps for a long time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, could you guys give comments or opinions regarding my impressions of the D10?

 * Very detailed and spacious as has already been mentioned a lot before
 * Increased bass response and fullness, though I don't hear this associated a lot with the D10
 * Detail and spaciousness is more attributed to the amp section while the increased bass response and fullness of the sound is more attributed to the DAC section.

 A question also:

 What do you guys think is relatively better: The D10 as a standalone DAC or the D10 as a standalone amp? I seem to prefer it as a standalone amp more.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll probably defer from rolling the opamps for a long time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, could you guys give comments or opinions regarding my impressions of the D10?

 * Very detailed and spacious as has already been mentioned a lot before

Yes.

 * Increased bass response and fullness, though I don't hear this associated a lot with the D10

Increased compared to what? It does not lack bass or fullness at all.

 * Detail and spaciousness is more attributed to the amp section while the increased bass response and fullness of the sound is more attributed to the DAC section.

Detail and spaciousness is more attributed to the DAC section while the increased bass response and fullness of the sound is more attributed to the AMP section. But, the D10 doesn't get less spacious detailed or full when you use only the AMP or only the DAC. The AMP sounds a lot like the Predator, and the Predator's DAC is what holds it back - the Predator amp is not lacking in detail or spaciousness when fed with a good DAC. The D10 DAC fed into the Predator sounds a lot like using the D10 with the built-in amp, and both ways are more detailed and spacious than when using the Predator's built-in DAC.

 A question also:

 What do you guys think is relatively better: The D10 as a standalone DAC or the D10 as a standalone amp? I seem to prefer it as a standalone amp more._

 

I don't know that I can answer the last question. I prefer to use it as a DAC and AMP at the same time, and use it a lot with my Macbook to listen to music with my custom IEM.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll probably defer from rolling the opamps for a long time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, could you guys give comments or opinions regarding my impressions of the D10?

 * Very detailed and spacious as has already been mentioned a lot before
 * Increased bass response and fullness, though I don't hear this associated a lot with the D10
 * Detail and spaciousness is more attributed to the amp section while the increased bass response and fullness of the sound is more attributed to the DAC section.

 A question also:

 What do you guys think is relatively better: The D10 as a standalone DAC or the D10 as a standalone amp? I seem to prefer it as a standalone amp more._

 

Fuseboxx, first let's answer your questions: I feel the D10's best attributes are its clarity, detail and "speed" (no smearing). I agree with you that the D10 isn't the fullest or has the most bass response. However, the bass it has is very tight and punchy...

 I feel the D10 does slightly better as a DAC than stand alone amp (actually, I feel it does both jobs admirably). Mainly because other stand alone amps tend give me a fuller sound...

 Secondly, I had some reservations about rolling opamps too. Some of the other guides out there aren't the most novice-friendly. So after a little help from others, I threw this explanation together. I tried to make it as LEAST technical as possible, since that's what I would want if I didn't have any experience with rolling. 

 I haven't added pictures...can anyone show me the ropes about adding pics here?

 [size=medium]Changing Opamps in the iBasso D10:[/size]

* Please note: Before you touch any exposed circuitry, make sure to ground yourself against something metal. Preferrably, get yourself an anti-static wristband. This will help prevent damaging your D10 and your opamps from static electricity*

What you need: A pair of long needle nose pliers, the iBasso included screw driver, your favorite opamps (8 Pin "DIP" style or "SOIC" soldered onto an empty DIP adapter), a magnifying glass, and a good clean desk space with good lighting.

 1) Removing Screws: With the D10's volume knob pointing to your _right_, use the iBasso screw driver to remove the four screws from the front panel. They are loosened with a counter-clockwise motion (to the left). 

 Put the screws aside in a safe, separate location so they do not get lost.

 2) Take out the circuit board: First, discharge any static electricity. Then, with your left index finger, gently push on the coaxial connector that juts out from the rear panel of the D10. Since the D10 is currently pointing to the right, the coaxial connector will be jutting out of the left side of the D10.

 The circuit board will slide forward.

 With your right hand, gently grasp the edges of the circuit board and continue to slide the board halfway out of the D10's case. In other words, keep sliding the board out until you can cleary see all three opamps.

 There is no danger or harm in removing the circuit board from the case, but it isn't necessary to remove the entire board from the case. 

 3) Removing opamps: The opamps are arranged in a pyramid formation. The top opamp socket is for the L/R channel, and the two bottom sockets seat buffers.

 Again, make sure to ground yourself against any static.

 I find it easiest to remove the top opamp first, followed by the bottom right opamp, and finally the opamp in the bottom left socket.

 Use your needle nose pliers to gently grasp the edges of the opamp. Gently pull up (vertically). It may be helpful to gently jiggle the opamp back and forth as you pull up.

 4) Inserting new opamps: Select new opamps. The opamp model number is found on the back of each opamp. The magnifying glass may be necessary to find out which opamp is which. There is a list of popular opamps for the D10 located at the bottom of this guide.

 It is important to align the opamps in their sockets correctly. If you take a close look at the sides of the opamps, you'll see a square under one of the "spikes". This square should be in the bottom right corner when the opamps are set in the sockets.

 With the opamp seated in an opamp socket, gently push down with your fingernails on the edges of the opamp adapter. DO NOT push directly down on the black chip itself, since a soldering connection may come loose.

 It will probably be easiest to first fill the bottom left socket, followed by the bottom right and then the top socket.

 5)Replace the circuit board : Everything you did to remove the circuit board, you're going to do in reverse: First, push the board back into the case. If it doesn't slide all the way back into place, it helps to remove the back panel in order to fit the board. 

 If you've already removed the entire board from the case, there are a few things to take note of before you try and slide the board back in.

 First of all, when sliding the board back in, you will need to compress the spring found on the bottom of the board, so it will fit back into the D10 chasis. Secondly, slide the board back in slowly and smoothly, so that the anti-static foil around the D10 stays in place. 

 Next, screw the screws back in (clockwise/to the right).

 You're good to go!

Opamp selection for the D10: There are quite a few opamps that sound superb in the D10. This is just a sampling.
 For the L/R socket: AD743**, AD744**, AD8066*, ADA4841-2(stock), AD8397*, AD8599*, AD8616*, AD8656 (included), OPA2111, OPA2228, OPA2350, OPA2604, THS4032*, LTC6241HV*.

 For the buffer sockets (2): AD8532 (included), AD8616, AD8656, LMH6643 (included), LMH6655*, EL8201*.

 Popular combinations: ADA4841-2/AD8532 (stock configuration - sounds similar to RSA Predator), AD8656/bypassed buffers, AD8397/bypassed buffers, THS4032/bypassed buffers, AD8599/AD8656 (iQube clone), OPA2228/AD8656, LTC6241HV/LMH6643, OPA2350/EL8201, AD743/AD8616, AD744 (Class A, Output bypassed)/EL8201.

 * = Opamp must be soldered onto an adapter. Found here: http://cimarrontechnology.com/so8to8...rpn970601.aspx
 ** = 2 Opamps must be soldered onto an adapter. Found here: http://cimarrontechnology.com/single...rpn020302.aspx


----------



## rhw

Just a note
 playing Philip Glass Solo Piano
 is very authentic with the D10 (228CA/8656) - HFI-780 mod.
 from the deep bass to the clear treble
 the DAC section 
 feeding a Shek H1 removes details, dynamic, space while giving a similar balance (2227),
 feeding a D3 smoothes the sound with less resolution, too (nevertheless fine)
 D10, DAC+amp, is more like being there.


----------



## wuwhere

There is a ground spring under the pc board, towards the back. Ensure that you compress it lightly so that it does not get snag to the case. I use a very small screw driver to lift the opamp and buffers slightly before I lift them off with my fingers.

 Also, I don't remove the volume knob. I just unscrew the four screws on the front then pull the board from the front.

 When putting the board back in, make sure that the LEDs at the back are aligned to their holes.


----------



## wuwhere

sorry, double post


----------



## rhw

At the side of the board where the caps are located there is some antistatic foil frapped around the board. Do no wrinkle it by sliding in the board in the case. - Handle with care.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a ground spring under the pc board, towards the back. Ensure that you compress it lightly so that it does not get snag to the case. I use a very small screw driver to lift the opamp and buffers slightly before I lift them off with my fingers.

 Also, I don't remove the volume knob. I just unscrew the four screws on the front then pull the board from the front.

 When putting the board back in, make sure that the LEDs at the back are aligned to their holes._

 

Yep, forgot about the spring. Thanks, Wuwhere.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At the side of the board where the caps are located there is some antistatic foil frapped around the board. Do no wrinkle it by sliding in the board in the case. - Handle with care._

 

Hmmm...never noticed it before...I'll have to take a look


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, forgot about the spring. Thanks, Wuwhere._

 







 Excellent how-to steps.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm...never noticed it before...I'll have to take a look_

 

Unfortunately you will notice it when it is tearing.
 Always slide in smoothly.


----------



## hopeless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lastdodobird* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, it's that dangerous to roll opamps, eh?_

 

No it isn't. I have never damaged opamps with ESD... They will get physically damaged due to repeated insertion-removal much sooner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I do pay attention to grounding my hands a while before I touch them. But not with bracelets


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hopeless* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No it isn't. I have never damaged opamps with ESD... They will get physically damaged due to repeated insertion-removal much sooner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I do pay attention to grounding my hands a while before I touch them. But not with bracelets 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I agree with hopeless...I have made up hundreds of opamp kits and adapters, and have never had one damaged by static electricity. My iron, however, is a grounded iron, and of course it never hurts to err on the safe side.

 Virtually all of my PMs and emails regarding "bad" opamps are ones that have been damaged by inserting with the polarity reversed.


----------



## wuwhere

Ron (HiFlight),

 Thanks for the EL8201/AD744. They are really nice. They take the D10 higher.


----------



## fuseboxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fuseboxx, first let's answer your questions: I feel the D10's best attributes are its clarity, detail and "speed" (no smearing). I agree with you that the D10 isn't the fullest or has the most bass response. However, the bass it has is very tight and punchy...

 I feel the D10 does slightly better as a DAC than stand alone amp (actually, I feel it does both jobs admirably). Mainly because other stand alone amps tend give me a fuller sound..._

 

I can't vouch for the "speed" since I never really was able to translate the concept of PRaT to my listening, but I agree with this for the most part. Although just to clarify, I _didn't_ say that the D10 _isn't_ the fullest or has the most bass response 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In fact, I find the D10 to be quite full and bassy.

 The reason why I say I prefer it as an amp is because when I use it chained with my iPod Classic, I still experience that detail and spaciousness I hear when using it as a combo, which is IMO the D10's greatest asset aurally.

 Thanks for the Opamp Rolling guide as well! If I'm able to find a ground strap and static bag, I might gather up the courage to open up my D10 in a few months 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know that I can answer the last question. I prefer to use it as a DAC and AMP at the same time, and use it a lot with my Macbook to listen to music with my custom IEM._

 

Well, if you find time to do a comparison, it would be appreciated since I'm quite intrigued to hear other people's impressions/comparisons of the D10 as a:

 - standalone amp
 vs
 - standalone DAC
 vs
 - combo

 Particularly what traits in SQ are more attributed to the amp vs the DAC sections, and how they are retained as a combo unit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like what I said above regarding how I prefer the D10 as a standalone amp rather than a standalone DAC, I find that as a standalone amp, the sound is thinner and the bass is less punchy compared to when used as a combo. That's why I initially said that I think the fullness of the sound is more attributed to the DAC.

 Although:

 Caveat 1: I'm open to the fact that what I probably perceive as bass response and fullness of sound might also be due to how airy and spacious the sound from the D10 is, which is especially notable since...

 Caveat 2: I'm using a pair of Beyer DT770 '07 250ohm headphones, which have been recabled with cryo-treated Mogami cables. This makes the DT770 more sensitive with a heightened bass response as compared to the stock version.


----------



## wuwhere

fuseboxx, try the 744OBCA/8201. On my ER4S, the bass gets deeper and tauter, cymbals have more sheen. It elevates the D10's amp by another notch.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't vouch for the "speed" since I never really was able to translate the concept of PRaT to my listening, but I agree with this for the most part. Although just to clarify, I didn't say that the D10 isn't the fullest or has the most bass response 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In fact, I find the D10 to be quite full and bassy.

 The reason why I say I prefer it as an amp is because when I use it chained with my iPod Classic, I still experience that detail and spaciousness I hear when using it as a combo, which is IMO the D10's greatest asset aurally.

 Thanks for the Opamp Rolling guide as well! If I'm able to find a ground strap and static bag, I might gather up the courage to open up my D10 in a few months 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Well, if you find time to do a comparison, it would be appreciated since I'm quite intrigued to hear other people's impressions/comparisons of the D10 as a:

 - standalone amp
 vs
 - standalone DAC
 vs
 - combo

 Particularly what traits in SQ are more attributed to the amp vs the DAC sections, and how they are retained as a combo unit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like what I said above regarding how I prefer the D10 as a standalone amp rather than a standalone DAC, I find that as a standalone amp, the sound is thinner and the bass is less punchy compared to when used as a combo. That's why I initially said that I think the fullness of the sound is more attributed to the DAC.

 Although:

 Caveat 1: I'm open to the fact that what I probably perceive as bass response and fullness of sound might also be due to how airy and spacious the sound from the D10 is, which is especially notable since...

 Caveat 2: I'm using a pair of Beyer DT770 '07 250ohm headphones, which have been recabled with cryo-treated Mogami cables. This makes the DT770 more sensitive with a heightened bass response as compared to the stock version._

 

I've done all the testing I wish to do (including as a DAC and as an AMP), and posted it in my big USB DAC Amp review - I have a link to all my reviews in my public profile "about me" section.


----------



## fuseboxx

^ Yup read that too. Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just a few questions regarding rolling opamps:

 1) What are the buffers for? And what does bypassing the buffers do? I've read that the AD8656 /w bypassed buffers has received a lot of praise, so I want to try it eventually.

 2) Will certain opamp combinations increase or decrease the volume/gain from the D10? I'm using the D10 with the knob at 3 o'clock right now with my DT770-250 ('05), so I just want to know if some combinations might decrease the volume output.

 3) Can you use the opamp chips provided both for the main sockets (is this the correct term?) and the buffers? Meaning I can use the AD8656 for the main socket and I can place the AD8656 as buffers as well? What difference does this make?

 Any additional information anyone might want to provide will be appreciated as well


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Yup read that too. Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just a few questions regarding rolling opamps:

 1) What are the buffers for? And what does bypassing the buffers do? I've read that the AD8656 /w bypassed buffers has received a lot of praise, so I want to try it eventually.

They help with impedance matching of the outputs and headphones, and can also improve the current output of the amp if the main opamp isn't powerful enough, plus they also can help tune the sound if the sound of the main opamp isn't quite what you are looking for. 

 2) Will certain opamp combinations increase or decrease the volume/gain from the D10? I'm using the D10 with the knob at 3 o'clock right now with my DT770-250 ('05), so I just want to know if some combinations might decrease the volume output.

They can, but I have not paid much attention to the volume knob positions with alternate opamps, as long as the normal listening volume is adequate for me with all my headphones.

 3) Can you use the opamp chips provided both for the main sockets (is this the correct term?) and the buffers? Meaning I can use the AD8656 for the main socket and I can place the AD8656 as buffers as well? What difference does this make?

Yes, but you'd need 3 AD8656 to do that and it only comes with 2 of them. I do have three total, and that combo is a little to brihgt for my tastes.

 Any additional information anyone might want to provide will be appreciated as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just read through the thread and you'll find lots of info about how different opamp combos work.


----------



## fuseboxx

Great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks HA. I've actually started to read and search through the thread for various bits of info, but it's a bit daunting to do so for a 179-page thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really interested in rolling the opamps, but I've only got around 25 hours on my D10 so far and haven't mustered enough moxie to open it up so far.


----------



## bakhtiar

I just did the opamp-rolling. No sweat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Thanks for the step by step guide. 
 Now, my current combo is . ADA4841-2/AD8656 . Almost similar to stock combo, but seem to be little brighter/sparkle. Nice synergy with UM3Xs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'll leave this combo for a while, for burn-in (mental and physical). 


 I also tried AD8656/bypass, not bad too. Very little hiss, little bigger soundstage. Will consider this in my next opamp rolling. Now reading the opamp's datasheets to appreciate their performance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 


 1 question. Is it possible to put the bypass at L/R opamp slot? Example : bypass/AD8656

 Thank you.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just did the opamp-rolling. No sweat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Thanks for the step by step guide. 
 Now, my current combo is . ADA4841-2/AD8656 . Almost similar to stock combo, but seem to be little brighter/sparkle. Nice synergy with UM3Xs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'll leave this combo for a while, for burn-in (mental and physical). 


 I also tried AD8656/bypass, not bad too. Very little hiss, little bigger soundstage. Will consider this in my next opamp rolling. Now reading the opamp's datasheets to appreciate their performance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 


 1 question. Is it possible to put the bypass at L/R opamp slot? Example : bypass/AD8656

 Thank you._

 

Then you'd have no sound.


----------



## oxophone

Could any well-informed and knowledgable head-fier KINDLY summarise the salient points of (and the discussion so far on) Ibasso D10? It will be very useful and helpful for general users/potential buyers of Ibasso D10.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks HA. I've actually started to read and search through the thread for various bits of info, but it's a bit daunting to do so for a 179-page thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really interested in rolling the opamps, but I've only got around 25 hours on my D10 so far and haven't mustered enough moxie to open it up so far._

 

If you go to page 30 of the thread and scroll down a bit, you will find a post that I made that lists some of the characteristics of opamps that work, and some opamps that don't work in the D10. This is, by no means, a complete list, but at that time, it was all that I had tested to date.


----------



## DonJuan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find that all of my Norah Jones albums sound the same way at higher volume levels...I think it may be the fault of the recording engineers. The recordings sound overdriven to me. They are the only albums that sound this way._

 

Hmmm...listening now...*I don't get any overdriven sound at all*...as someone who has done some (semi-pro) recording and mixing, my experience tells me that Norah Jones's vocal style does not lend toward clipping while recording (She's a very laid-back singer whose songs aren't about high volumes or aggressive tones). Without hearing what you hear, it is difficult to say what is really happening. 

 But her engineers are ALL well respected, industry vets with decades of experience. 

 Between Jay Newland (Nocturne, Missy Higgins 10x platinum release "The Sound of White"), Arif Mardin (Aretha Franklin, Bee Gees, Bette Mittler), Husky Huskolds (Grammy winning engineer - Tom Waits, Ani DiFranco, Fiona Apple), it *is 99.99999999999% IMPOSSIBLE that there is an issue with the recording process*. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I definitely agree with you on the sound. That's why I've been using it often to see if the amp makes it better. I love Norah Jones but have found her voice a bit harsh at times without an amp. the D10 really smoothed her voice where it was really nice with no shrill or harshness up until now._

 

Again, not sure what's going on. Her voice is not harsh to me, either amped or unamped. Without getting into unimportant detail, I know her vocal chain (equipment used) is very, very high end and was specifically matched to her vocals. 

 I think the telling information is when you listen to her live. Not a hint of harshness.

 Hope this helps


----------



## wuwhere

I don't know who else here are listening or have tried the EL8201 buffers/AD744 (output bypassed class A) besides HiFlight and HPA.
 I've always liked heavily class-A biased amps having owned Krell class-A mono-blocks. 
 I PMed HiFlight that I really like them. He suggested that I share my impressions here.
 I had the AD8656 opamp before this.
 My set-up is an iHP-120 > D10 DAC/AMP -> ER4S/ER4P. I let them cooked overnight before listening.
 I listened to two songs that I am very familiar with, Hotel California from Hell Freezes Over and the Police's Tea In The Sahara.
 Compared to the stock buffers/opamp, On Hotel California, the bass is deeper, more pronounced, more weight,and more body.
 The ER4S has much better bass than the ER4P, I compared both. I heard the the same with the Tea In The Sahara, which also
 has some deep bass and kick drums. Also, the EL8201/AD744 are less bright than the stock or AD8656.


----------



## Anouk

Hello everyone,
 My ibasso d10 arrived at head-fier bonthouse's place today (samurai connections) a diyer here in NL. My ibasso had taken an unfortunate hit a week ago on myd esk and although it was working hwile not being moved around, if i moved it too much the signal would cut out. Luckily he is good with a solder iron and the unit is now FIXED! Whic makes me very happy because it is the most useful, best little piece of audio gear I have bought so far (well probbably the best piece of gear, period). I hope to have the new topkit soo nwhich he will install.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just did the opamp-rolling. No sweat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Thanks for the step by step guide. 
 Now, my current combo is . ADA4841-2/AD8656 . Almost similar to stock combo, but seem to be little brighter/sparkle. Nice synergy with UM3Xs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'll leave this combo for a while, for burn-in (mental and physical). 


 I also tried AD8656/bypass, not bad too. Very little hiss, little bigger soundstage. Will consider this in my next opamp rolling. Now reading the opamp's datasheets to appreciate their performance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 


*1 question. Is it possible to put the bypass at L/R opamp slot? Example : bypass/AD8656*

 Thank you._

 


 hehe; then you'de have some really built up silence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the buffers would really make the most of it


----------



## bakhtiar

*HeadphoneAddict* and *qusp*
 Thank you for the clarification 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Anouk

Hello, Its funny really! Bonthouse only has the ibasso for a day and now its the number one on his to buy list. I have already converted 2 people to ibasso, lol.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, Its funny really! Bonthouse only has the ibasso for a day and now its the number one on his to buy list. I have already converted 2 people to ibasso, lol.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

But I get the credit for making you buy one! So, if it wasn't for me they wouldn't buy them either...


----------



## bakhtiar

^^^ .. Ha ha ha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... The proof of MLM and pyramid scheme existence in head-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




T


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^^ .. Ha ha ha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... The proof of MLM and pyramid scheme existence in head-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




T_

 

That is exactly what I was thinking!


----------



## Anouk

Lol yeah, that sure is true Larry. Well at least I will get my unit back if Bonthouse can let it go when its all done that is! Maybe I will let him keep it till his unit arrives. Although, I cant say I am happy with my pc as sole source for my wa2.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## fuseboxx

How accurate is iBasso's claim that battery life is around 30 hours when used as a standalone dac/amp and 20 hours when used as a combo? And for what gain setting is this?

 I charged my D10 via the AC adapter several days ago and the charge time was quite exact as said on the manual - around 6 hours.

 I've been using it since over the past 3 days mostly as a combo unit so I figured that if I use it around 7-8 hours a day, the battery life claim is correct. Can't say/remember exactly if I use it that much though.

 Would the fact that I use it almost at full-gain (gain switch up; knob at 3 o'clock) affect the battery life? In other words, does a high gain setting drain the battery faster than a low gain setting?


----------



## jamato8

The more power you use from the amp the faster the battery goes down. The energy has to come from battery and it depends upon the current draw of the phones you are using.


----------



## fuseboxx

Ah, so considering I use a high gain setting to drive my 250ohm headphones, I suppose the battery life could be less that 20 hours for me.

 Looks like the estimate might be correct after all.

 Thanks.


----------



## fuseboxx

I was supposed to ask if when charging, is it not advisable to only charge halfway and then use the D10/recharge the unit again after sometime? Must it always be drained before charging and fully charged after charging?

 Then I read this and found it interesting. From Lithium-ion polymer battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  Quote:


 LiPoly batteries must be charged carefully. The basic algorithm is to charge at constant current (1C to 2C depending on manufacturer) until each cell reaches 4.2 V, the charger must then gradually reduce the charge current while holding the cell voltage at 4.2 volts until the charge current has dropped to 10% of the initial charge rate at which point the battery is considered 100% charged.

 Balance charging simply means that the charger monitors the voltage of each cell in a pack and varies the charge on a per-cell basis so that all cells are brought to the same voltage.

 The charge should not be terminated on reaching a cell voltage of 4.2 V because the capacity reached at that point is only 70% of full capacity; charging at the reducing current necessary to hold the cell voltage at or very near 4.2 V must be continued until the charge current drops to 10% of the initial charge rate.

*It is important to note that trickle charging is not acceptable for lithium batteries; Li-ion chemistry cannot accept an overcharge without causing damage to the cell, possibly plating out lithium metal and becoming hazardous. Most manufacturers claim a maximum and minimum voltage of 4.23 and 3.0 volts per cell. Taking any cell outside these limits can reduce the cell's capacity and ability to deliver full rated current.*

 Most dedicated lithium polymer chargers use a charge timer for safety; this cuts the charge after a predefined time (typically 90 minutes). 
 

Yet on iBasso's Owner Manual for the D10, it says:

_"The D10 has overcharge protection; you can leave the D10 plugged and no over-charging concerns."_

 I wonder how iBasso handled this in light of the bolded statement above.


----------



## shredder

I always let it run down before charging, however, it lasts more than 2x longer than my 80gig 5.5 gen iPod does now, so it's no problem for me.


----------



## shredder

BURN IN QUESTION:

 If I plug the D10 into my USB from the computer and let er rip..... should I switch the charge switch to on or off? Can I do both at the same time? Better to kill a battery then recharge / do over?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shredder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BURN IN QUESTION:

 If I plug the D10 into my USB from the computer and let er rip..... should I switch the charge switch to on or off? Can I do both at the same time? Better to kill a battery then recharge / do over?_

 

You can do both. I usually drain the battery on mine before the I charge it again.


----------



## wuwhere

Battery life may also vary when you roll opamps.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, I got my topkit today, which is now on its way to Bonthouse. He received the blackgates today and has already successfully installed them in the d10. Tomorrow he will do the topkit and compare it to his modified corda move.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## jamato8

I leave mine on charge all the time. The battery has a certain amount of cycles. A cycle is a total discharge and recharge. If you discharge 1/4 and recharge you have 1/4 of a cycle. I prefer to cycle my battery much less as it will last longer and I find no reason to discharge my battery all the time. 

 To burn in I leave the switch on.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yet on iBasso's Owner Manual for the D10, it says:

"The D10 has overcharge protection; you can leave the D10 plugged and no over-charging concerns."

 I wonder how iBasso handled this in light of the bolded statement above._

 


 Most manufacturer's include circuitry on Li-ion powered devices to prevent the battery from ever seeing these conditions.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I got about 28 hours of run time on battery when used as an optical DAC/amp with the AD8656 opamp and bypassed buffers. 

 I tried once to test the hours with the Hiflight top kit using it as a USB DAC/amp, but at 23 hours I discovered iTunes was locked up and the battery was not drained yet, However, I have no idea how many hours of that 23 was with no music playing (middle of the night).


----------



## hopeless

Try the LT1355. 1 mA per channel of quiescent current and sounds better than two LME49710.


----------



## Nuge

I just received the ibasso D10 about 30 minutes ago. I have an apple powerbook G4, and wanted to know if there is a way to know if both the amp AND the DAC are being used when I connect to the powerbook G4, versus G4. How can I use both the amp + dac, the dac by itself, and the amp itself and know that I am doing so?


----------



## jamato8

If you use the USB then you are using the dac of the D10 and if you come out of the AUX then you use only the DAC but out of the right, Headphone socket, you then are using the DAC and internal amp of the D10.


----------



## Nuge

For some reason, when I use the usb and then connect my headphones to the Aux In/Out jack, the volume is really really tiny. There is nothing wrong with my volume settings. I don't know why it does this.


----------



## jamato8

You headphones go the Headphone jack. The Aux is a line out with no volume control and no opamp to to increase the volume, current for drive.


----------



## fuseboxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I leave mine on charge all the time. The battery has a certain amount of cycles. A cycle is a total discharge and recharge. If you discharge 1/4 and recharge you have 1/4 of a cycle. I prefer to cycle my battery much less as it will last longer and I find no reason to discharge my battery all the time. 

 To burn in I leave the switch on._

 

Won't this damage or degrade the battery life?

 Not to be a stickler for the rules, but the owner's manual says that you should set the charge switch at OFF when the D10 doesn't need to be charged in order to extend battery life.

 The number of charge cycles as claimed by iBasso is 500 charge cycles, BTW. So I figured that as far as battery life is concerned, the D10 should last me around 3-4 years of proper use.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nuge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For some reason, when I use the usb and then connect my headphones to the Aux In/Out jack, the volume is really really tiny. There is nothing wrong with my volume settings. I don't know why it does this._

 

Connecting the USB and feeding off the Aux I/O means that you're using the D10 only as a standalone DAC and you really won't be able to control the volume via the D10. You would probably need an amp chained in between the D10 and your headphones if you plan to use the D10 that way.

 But if you transfer your headphones from the Aux I/O to the Headphone Out, then that means you're using the D10 as a combo DAC-Amp, and you'll be able to control the volume via the D10.

 If you want to use your D10 as a standalone amp, you should feed it via the AUX I/O (not via the USB/Optical/Coaxial) and still feed off the Headphone Out.


----------



## csh08

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.......There is a slight improvement in dynamics and liveliness to the D10 output when using the headphone-out to drive the other amp rather than the D10 line out - but that may be due to the difference in output levels - the D10 line-out is fairly soft compared to other DACs with a line out only. The D10 headphone out in high gain at max volume is closer to the output level of the Pico DAC-only line out._

 

I am having an issue with my D10.

 I am using my 743 Topkit D10 as a DAC to drive my TTVJ FET-A. Input is via either USB or optical from M-Audio Transit from FooBar2000. When I use the headphone out the bass is distorted. When I use the line out the sound is crisp and clear. 

 I have checked all my connections.

 The D10 sound is also fine when I listen to the amp into headphones.


----------



## Nuge

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Won't this damage or degrade the battery life?

 Not to be a stickler for the rules, but the owner's manual says that you should set the charge switch at OFF when the D10 doesn't need to be charged in order to extend battery life.

 The number of charge cycles as claimed by iBasso is 500 charge cycles, BTW. So I figured that as far as battery life is concerned, the D10 should last me around 3-4 years of proper use.



 Connecting the USB and feeding off the Aux I/O means that you're using the D10 only as a standalone DAC and you really won't be able to control the volume via the D10. You would probably need an amp chained in between the D10 and your headphones if you plan to use the D10 that way.

 But if you transfer your headphones from the Aux I/O to the Headphone Out, then that means you're using the D10 as a combo DAC-Amp, and you'll be able to control the volume via the D10.

 If you want to use your D10 as a standalone amp, you should feed it via the AUX I/O (not via the USB/Optical/Coaxial) and still feed off the Headphone Out._

 







 Thanks! Now, I have a question about burn-in. Can I burn the D10 in by just leaving the " on" switch on? Or do I have to play music using the D10 to burn it in?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nuge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Thanks! Now, I have a question about burn-in. Can I burn the D10 in by just leaving the " on" switch on? Or do I have to play music using the D10 to burn it in?_

 

You have to play music through it and connect an HP/IEM to the headphone out. The HP/IEM is a load to the amp section of the D10. Set the volume to the normal volume that you normally listen to. 300hrs is a minimum, I believe. I found that after 600hrs, the sound did not change any longer.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csh08* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am having an issue with my D10.

 I am using my 743 Topkit D10 as a DAC to drive my TTVJ FET-A. Input is via either USB or optical from M-Audio Transit from FooBar2000. When I use the headphone out the bass is distorted. When I use the line out the sound is crisp and clear. 

 I have checked all my connections.

 The D10 sound is also fine when I listen to the amp into headphones._

 

The line out is for input to your TTVJ FET-A amp. The HP out is only for HP/IEM and should not be use as input to your TTVJ amp.


----------



## csh08

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The line out is for input to your TTVJ FET-A amp. The HP out is only for HP/IEM and should not be use as input to your TTVJ amp._

 

Thanks for the reply wuwhere.

 Why is this? What is the difference between the line out and headphone out?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...There is a slight improvement in dynamics and liveliness to the D10 output when using the headphone-out to drive the other amp rather than the D10 line out - but that may be due to the difference in output levels - the D10 line-out is fairly soft compared to other DACs with a line out only. The D10 headphone out in high gain at max volume is closer to the output level of the Pico DAC-only line out._

 

I had assumed that HeadphoneAddict was comparing the performance of the D10 line out verses headphone out when both were feeding another amp?


----------



## fuseboxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have to play music through it and connect an HP/IEM to the headphone out. The HP/IEM is a load to the amp section of the D10. Set the volume to the normal volume that you normally listen to. 300hrs is a minimum, I believe. I found that after 600hrs, the sound did not change any longer._

 

Wow, that's three months of normal use for me to get the D10 fully burned-in.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, that's three months of normal use for me to get the D10 fully burned-in._

 

I left mine on 24/7 for 3 weeks. I turned if off for 1 hour each 24 hour just to drain the caps.


----------



## fuseboxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I left mine on 24/7 for 3 weeks._

 

On what power?

 I'll probably just use it how I normally would without keeping mind of the burn-in.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csh08* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the reply wuwhere.

 Why is this? What is the difference between the line out and headphone out?_

 

Line out is a fixed output in a few mV as input to an amp. and has a high impedance (usually 10KOhms or higher) so as not to appear as a load to the amp's input. The HP out is for low impedance such as an HP/IEM for maximum current transfer to the load.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On what power?

 I'll probably just use it how I normally would without keeping mind of the burn-in._

 

Battery, when it loses power I charge it and left it on.

 You can also burn it in by using it normally.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csh08* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am having an issue with my D10.

 I am using my 743 Topkit D10 as a DAC to drive my TTVJ FET-A. Input is via either USB or optical from M-Audio Transit from FooBar2000. When I use the headphone out the bass is distorted. When I use the line out the sound is crisp and clear. 

 I have checked all my connections.

 The D10 sound is also fine when I listen to the amp into headphones._

 

If the input levels are high then the headphone-out's volume level can be too high to use high-gain at max volume when feeding another amp. SO, if you feed the headphone out into an amp, instead of the line out, don't go max volume on the D10 and that should fix it. Or, only use line-out to drive another amp.


----------



## csh08

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the input levels are high then the headphone-out's volume level can be too high to use high-gain at max volume when feeding another amp. SO, if you feed the headphone out into an amp, instead of the line out, don't go max volume on the D10 and that should fix it. Or, only use line-out to drive another amp._

 

Turning down the volume on the headphone-out does fix the issue, thanks (I have been using low gain in any case). I believe I am hearing stronger highs from the headphone out than the line out, which match the FET-A better, but still testing to confirm.

 Given the response from wuwhere regarding the different nature of the output from the headphone and line out is there any reason not to use the headphone out to feed another amp?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csh08* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Turning down the volume on the headphone-out does fix the issue, thanks (I have been using low gain in any case). I believe I am hearing stronger highs from the headphone out than the line out, which match the FET-A better, but still testing to confirm.

 Given the response from wuwhere regarding the different nature of the output from the headphone and line out* is there any reason not to use the headphone out to feed another amp?*_

 

If it sounds better without adding distortion or taking away detail or messing up the frequency response, then go for it!

 For over a year I had to use my Pico DAC/amp to feed my Woo GES stat amp out of the headphone jack, as a DAC/Preamp; and it sounded better that way than with many headphones plugged into the headphone jack.


----------



## qusp

wow noob city in here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 also the lineout doesnt always have output caps and HP out passes through an op-amp I/V stage (with DC offset filtering caps)


----------



## csh08

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow noob city in here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep, gotta start somewhere. Thanks to all for the advice.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_..also the lineout doesnt always have output caps and HP out passes through an op-amp I/V stage (with DC offset filtering caps)_

 

Does this mean that the line out is not impacted when the op-amps are rolled?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csh08* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, gotta start somewhere. Thanks to all for the advice.



 Does this mean that the line out is not impacted when the op-amps are rolled?_

 


 The Line-out will also reflect the opamp SQ differences when rolling different opamps, but there will likely still be some very slight differences in sound between the Headphone out and the Line-out. 

 Line-out is a constant level output, and is not affected by the position of the volume control. All things being equal, the "purest" output would be from Line-out, but typically this is only used when feeding the DAC output to another amp or other downstream device.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Line-out will also reflect the opamp SQ differences when rolling different opamps, but there will likely still be some very slight differences in sound between the Headphone out and the Line-out. 

 Line-out is a constant level output, and is not affected by the position of the volume control. All things being equal, the "purest" output would be from Line-out, but typically this is only used when feeding the DAC output to another amp or other downstream device._

 

 I must admit I havent studied the circuit at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (not that its really my forte anyway) and have been using the same opamps for ages now; only did any 'listening' to the op-amps via HP out. hmm I had thought that the L/O would be taken off the dac, with DC caps and no amp stage. interesting. so the BG mod will indeed effect the SQ when using as dac only with Lisa; cool I was expecting only to get benefit from the caps (other than the power rail upgrade) when running as dac/amp. hehe; I wondered why the burn-in was so erratic with D10 LOL. might have had something to do with rolling op-amps in the first few months. I didnt have it burning 24/7, just used it and burned in as I went.


----------



## Bonthouse

I'm having a problem here.. I've got a D10 here with AD743 OBCA/EL8201 and it's hissing at low gain with my SE530. Anyone know what's going on?

 edit. WRONG! my bad, it's a AD744OBCA


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bonthouse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm having a problem here.. I've got a D10 here with AD743 OBCA/EL8201 and it's hissing at low gain with my SE530. Anyone know what's going on?_

 

Does is hiss with no source attached?


----------



## Bonthouse

Yep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So it's definitely the opamp.. Tried the stock buffers, no change. With the upgraded buffers and stock opamp it doesn't hiss, and complete stock D10 also doesn't hiss.


----------



## Nuge

Has someone already documented the changes that occur within 300 hours of burning the D10 in? Sorry 150+ pages is WAY to much to look over! What would you guys describe as the changes that gradually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




occur in a 300 hour period of burn-in with the D10?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bonthouse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Try it with no source plugged in. If you get hiss then it is the D10 if no hiss, it is coming from your source.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nuge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has someone already documented the changes that occur within 300 hours of burning the D10 in? Sorry 150+ pages is WAY to much to look over! What would you guys describe as the changes that gradually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




occur in a 300 hour period of burn-in with the D10?_

 

Do a search on "this thread" for burn in and you will get many hits on the subject.


----------



## Bonthouse

I meant yes, as in, it also hisses when there's no source is attached


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bonthouse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I meant yes, as in, it also hisses when there's no source is attached
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Did it hiss with stock opamps?


----------



## Anouk

Hello, I have heard some units his and others dont so it might not be an issue with the opamp.
 Sucks though,
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Bonthouse

No hiss with stock amp..
 The buffers don't matter here. Stock vs upgraded makes no difference.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I've reported here previously that mine hisses with AD746 and AD743, but not with the AD744OBCA or any others that I have tried.


----------



## Bonthouse

Ah, thanks for the info! Are the AD743 and the AD744 similair in sound or very different?


----------



## Anouk

Bonthouse, the one you have there is the obca version.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bonthouse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, thanks for the info! Are the AD743 and the AD744 similair in sound or very different?_

 

I would say more similar than different, when comparing to the stock opamps.

 Do you have AD744OBCA or AD743OBCA there? When mine hiss with the AD743 (not OBCA) it is very mild and only with IEM, and it's less than that out of my Macbook or ALO Amphora, and worse with my Livewires and Westone ES3X, and not as bad with my Westone 3, and almost none with my IE8 or Phonak Audeo PFE.


----------



## DonJuan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nuge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has someone already documented the changes that occur within 300 hours of burning the D10 in? Sorry 150+ pages is WAY to much to look over! What would you guys describe as the changes that gradually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





occur in a 300 hour period of burn-in with the D10?_

 

Hey Nuge, for me, the sound became much more transparent (previous to ~200 hrs, I thought the sound was way too colored), with a tighter bass and a more refined trebble...of course, some of it was getting used to the sound. A bigger change was when I swapped opamp configs after realizing I wasn't a huge fan of the stock sound.


----------



## Bonthouse

It's an AD743OBCA. The hiss is not very audible with the D2000, but it's quite noticable with the SE530's. Again, only when there isn't any music played.
 I must've been spoiled by the super-silentness of the Move
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit. WRONG! my bad, it's a AD744OBCA


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DonJuan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Nuge, for me, the sound became much more transparent (previous to ~200 hrs, I thought the sound was way too colored), with a tighter bass and a more refined trebble...of course, some of it was getting used to the sound. A bigger change was when I swapped opamp configs after realizing I wasn't a huge fan of the stock sound._

 

I had a similar experience as DonJuan. About Opamps...I feel the stock configuration feels kind of "heavy handed"...Try the ADA4841-2 w/LMH6643s or better yet the LTC6241HV or OPA2228 w/ those buffers or AD8656 as buffers .... I appreciate the finer detail, harmonic complexities and subtleties, as well as more of a lower, more "barritone" presentation (a bigger emphasis on lower frequencies in the musical spectrum)


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bonthouse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's an AD743OBCA. The hiss is not very audible with the D2000, but it's quite noticable with the SE530's. Again, only when there isn't any music played.
 I must've been spoiled by the super-silentness of the Move
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If I recall, HiFlight mentioned hiss is more audible with wider-bandwidth opamps like the 743...which of course, probably doesn't help you much...but just thought I throw that detail in there.


----------



## Bonthouse

Okay, so after some macro photos and cleaning up in Photoshop.. yeah, it's really THAT tiny and smudged I came to the conclusion that is a AD744 OBCA.
 So am I knit picking on this? Is there anyone with the same setup (AD744OBCA/EL8201) and Shure SE530's that can confirm/deny the hiss?

 EDIT: Oh, and it sounds darker than the stock D10 amp, but this is normal, right?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bonthouse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, so after some macro photos and cleaning up in Photoshop.. yeah, it's really THAT tiny and smudged I came to the conclusion that is a AD744 OBCA.
 So am I knit picking on this? Is there anyone with the same setup (AD744OBCA/EL8201) and Shure SE530's that can confirm/deny the hiss?

 EDIT: Oh, and it sounds darker than the stock D10 amp, but this is normal, right?_

 

1) My AD744OBCA is *dead silent* with even high sensitivity customs, unlike my AD743 and AD746. You are experiencing something I have not.

 2) My AD744OCA (and AD743 or AD746) are all brighter than the stock D10 opamp, not darker. So that is another odd finding on your end.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, hmmm this is really weird. The only thing whic I think is different are the caps but I dont know how can make that sound the opamps darker instead of brighter then stock....
 Weird.
 Greetings,Anouk,


----------



## Anouk

Hello, I guess that if the opamp were damaged in shipping you would really get a different story, probbably cracking.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bonthouse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ..... So am I knit picking on this? Is there anyone with the same setup (AD744OBCA/EL8201) and Shure SE530's that can confirm/deny the hiss?

 EDIT: Oh, and it sounds darker than the stock D10 amp, but this is normal, right?_

 

With the phones and D10 configuration you are asking about, I can hear a very faint something (definitely not loud enough or sibilant enough to be called a hiss - I referred to it as a slow, quiet exhale). It is so faint and indistinct that I have to remind myself to listen for it (when no music is playing) to hear it at all. In the midst of a track, when a period of silence occurs, I don't notice it. From my D10, this very low level sound is not constant, but intermittent. It's there every second, but, over each second, it's only present about 40 percent of the time. This sound also does not change its volume as the pot is rotated in either direction.

 That it is loud enough for you to call it a hiss, and that it is bothering you is an experience that you are having that I am not (D10, AD744 OBCA/EL8201, Shure SE530).

 Now, something that we have more in common: I, too, hear the sound through this setup to be darker than that through the stock D10 amp. I wouldn't really characterize it as darker though. What seems to me more notable is that it has a layer of glare removed (enabling the much clearer hearing of what is below the glare) - with what remains to be heard is nicely illuminated. Using a visual experience as a description, I'd liken it to seeing through a mildly glared windshield using polarized sunglasses. That it's darker is not the main difference, but that the layer of glare is removed. That is my listening experience with the AD744 OBCA/EL8201 topkit. That said, the difference which is causing you to hear a distinct and distracting hiss (which I do not) may also be causing you to hear the effect of the topkit differently as well.

 Are these descriptions helping you to get some perspective on what you are hearing using your D10?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I wonder much much the new Blackgates could be involved in the hiss, or the dark sound? I also wonder how it will sound (dark or not) after the Blackgate caps are fully burned in.


----------



## Bonthouse

Burning them in will take a lot of time.. But it might be the explanation for the darker sound. Anyhow, I contacted Analog Devices in The Netherlands and they'll send me another pair of AD744's
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I'll report back when they are installed and listened to.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bonthouse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Burning them in will take a lot of time.. But it might be the explanation for the darker sound. Anyhow, I contacted Analog Devices in The Netherlands and they'll send me another pair of AD744's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'll report back when they are installed and listened to._

 

Are you going to convert them to OBCA?


----------



## Bonthouse

Correct
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll try them with and without OBCA.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who want to change the caps to BlackGates,
 here a little tip and a picture.

 As described by John the space is very limited. It is a close fit.
 You win a little space by turning around (top to bottom) the case of the D10 because there are wells at the bottom (to hold batteries in other iBasso amps).

 I will not comment on the sound because it is all fresh, 24 hours burn in .....
 + presumably I have to change a cap because of a small leak ......




_

 

I finally got my BGNX rolled in, but nearly killed my D10. It's now very hard to put the board back in the case. So I wouldn't be rolling too many opamps anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To add to the tips above, I would say start from the big caps at the rear and work your way to the front.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally got my BGNX rolled in, but nearly killed my D10. It's now very hard to put the board back in the case. So I would be rolling too many opamps anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To add to the tips above, I would say start from the big caps at the rear and work your way to the front._

 

I really love that picture showing the Black Gates in their new D10 home. The red and gold is so rich and regal, and the lighting in the picture gives them an almost fiery flare. That's a really nice shot. And not only that, folks may want to look at it to see how to fit those BG caps in there, too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Nice workflow tip, LeeSC. I recently watched the movie, Apollo 13, again. The end of that nail-biter of an account is a good reminder of what a crucial difference the order of steps in a sequence can make to the success of the overall task at hand.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really love that picture showing the Black Gates in their new D10 home. The red and gold is so rich and regal, and the lighting in the picture gives them an almost fiery flare. That's a really nice shot. And not only that, folks may want to look at it to see how to fit those BG caps in there, too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Nice workflow tip, LeeSC. I recently watched the movie, Apollo 13, again. The end of that nail-biter of an account is a good reminder of what a crucial difference the order of steps in a sequence can make to the success of the overall task at hand._

 

The caps on the picture are not my work though. I am not as good with the circuit board.


----------



## jamato8

I also bypassed mine with .1 HiQ BG's. BG's should only be bypassed with BG's though for the best sound.

 See the scrape marks on the side of the large caps? The molding on the inside of the case that causes this is also a big reason there is a very tight fit. I filed those ridges on the inside of the case and everything slide in and out much easier. 

 I am listening with the JH13 Pros right now, well I haven't been using much of anything else since I got them, and the D10 with the Black Gates sounds very fine. Open and transparent with zero hiss.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also bypassed mine with .1 HiQ BG's. BG's should only be bypassed with BG's though for the best sound.

 See the scrape marks on the side of the large caps? The molding on the inside of the case that causes this is also a big reason there is a very tight fit. I filed those ridges on the inside of the case and everything slide in and out much easier. 

 I am listening with the JH13 Pros right now, well I haven't been using much of anything else since I got them, and the D10 with the Black Gates sounds very fine. Open and transparent with zero hiss._

 

It was a great tip from you to use BGs in the D10.

 Maybe I should file the ridges down, too.... The marks of the right big cap have become deeper by sliding in and out removing the lacquer.

 How have you got in the 0.1? There is no space left. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (Btw. at partsconnexion 0.1uF BGs are out of stock.)

 Does the D10 use coupling caps? Are these the two caps in front of the headphone out? Do you think there are better choices at this point.

 I have no hiss on my D10
 but recognized a slight buzz when the D10 is connected with USB to the laptop and I touch, turn the volume knob. It is the same on the D3.


----------



## jamato8

Oh no, they are out? I have some but should have bought more. There is nothing like nonpolar Black Gates. Frustration. . . . 

 File down that inner edge and you will be ok. Just that little bit of extra room will make everything much smoother.


----------



## jamato8

Oh no, they are out? I have some but should have bought more. There is nothing like nonpolar Black Gates. Frustration. . . . 

 File down that inner edge and you will be ok. Just that little bit of extra room will make everything much smoother.


----------



## GreenLeo

I noticed that the capacitance of the BGs used in the D10 is about 1/3 of that of the originals. What is the usage of bigger caps in the original design?
 Why we can freely substitute caps with different capacitance?


----------



## rhw

The changed caps are part of the power supply. Here values are not as critical.
 While bigger caps are increasing the impulse ressource, BGs are faster.

 Maybe someone with more knowledge can explain it in a better way.


----------



## denging

Bigger capacitance tends to add more bass response (low register), that's why i did ask on my previous post whether the BG values make the D10 sounds rather thin, not to mention the BG burn in time takes for ages to be settled


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How have you got in the 0.1? There is no space left. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (Btw. at partsconnexion 0.1uF BGs are out of stock.)

 Does the D10 use coupling caps? Are these the two caps in front of the headphone out? Do you think there are better choices at this point._

 

The wima red cap is the one. 
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/i...ml#post5453809

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denging* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bigger capacitance tends to add more bass response (low register), that's why i did ask on my previous post whether the BG values make the D10 sounds rather thin, not to mention the BG burn in time takes for ages to be settled_

 

That why very earlier in this thread, I used Panasonic 2200 uf AM cap as my power caps. Cesar from Portaphile once said bigger cap is for reserve bass slam when needed.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/i...ml#post5487573

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/i...ml#post5487618


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The wima red cap is the one. 
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/i...ml#post5453809]_

 

But there have to be two decoupling caps, one per channel.
 The wima might be a bypass cap.
 ?


----------



## jamato8

It depends upon the resistance of the power supply, in this case the source is the battery and the quality of the cap, if a cap is used, how the bass will or will not be impacted. I did and do not find any lessoning of the bass quality with smaller caps in this case. The Pico amp for example doesn't use any caps for the power supply and there are others that use none.

 I am listening right now with the AD8656 installed and the buffers bypassed. Sweet sound. Very open and detailed. Plenty of bass slam and bass definition.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also bypassed mine with .1 HiQ BG's. BG's should only be bypassed with BG's though for the best sound._

 


 John, are you using the 50V 0.1uF HiQ?


----------



## jamato8

Yes.


----------



## rhw

Some explanations about power supplies at TNT


> _Capacitors
> As noted before, electrolytic capacitors serve two functions - to filter out the rectified supposedly DC voltage and to act as energy storage for those peaks which may require very large currents. Hence, they also stabilize the voltage by acting as energy reservoirs which offload the transformer, but this function is not of prime importance (however, it is far from being unimportant). I have set the priority list here: 1) filtering and 2) energy reserves.
> 
> First and foremost, their capacities. If you're willing to overlook their cost, a simple rule of thumb is to say that you need 1,000uF per every RMS Ampere of current. In practice, this will keep your amp working well even into lower loads. However, just to be on the safe side, it's better yet to say you need 1,000uF per every PEAK Ampere of current - this effectively increases your filter capacity by a factor of 1.41._
> ...


Following TNT, let's count: 
 100-200 mW in 32 Ohms
 31-62 mA
 x 1.41
 44 - 88 mA
 0.088 A - 88 uF
 Therefore 88 uF will be fine as energy reserve.

 I filed down the inner edges in the flipped case - now there is "plenty of space".

 Listening with 228CA and 8656 - I like it - warm and detailed.


----------



## fuseboxx

Just wondering how resistant to/durable against shock and shake is the D10?

 Is it safe to keep it in my pocket while walking?

 Is it made only for use at work/home?

 Can it be placed on top of the treadmill while I'm exercising on it?

 What could shock and shake do to the D10?


----------



## jamato8

Just don't drop the D10 and even then unless you hit the volume control or a switch it would most likely be fine but this amp is meant to be used on the move. Mine goes hiking, biking, and motorcycling.. . . well not the last, I don't have one. :^)


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


 ... and motorcycling.. . . well not the last, I don't have one. :^) 
 

Well, go and get one!


----------



## immtbiker

With as much of a lunatic and hi-fi snob that I am, I don't see much use for an amp when I'm biking or motoring. You can't concentrate enough to gain any benefit. It's more like background music at that point


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With as much of a lunatic and hi-fi snob that I am, I don't see much use for an amp when I'm biking or motoring. You can't concentrate enough to gain any benefit. It's more like background music at that point_

 

I would have agreed with in the past but not now. With these and an amp with a good source, the sound is portable home excellent.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With as much of a lunatic and hi-fi snob that I am, I don't see much use for an amp when I'm biking or motoring. You can't concentrate enough to gain any benefit. It's more like background music at that point_

 

But can you walk and chew gum at the same time?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But can you walk and chew gum at the same time?_

 

That can be tricky. I know I have had problems with that today. Strange day. Today is one day I would not ride and listen but I will sit at home and enjoy. :^)


----------



## fuseboxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just don't drop the D10 and even then unless you hit the volume control or a switch it would most likely be fine but this amp is meant to be used on the move. Mine goes hiking, biking, and motorcycling.. . . well not the last, I don't have one. :^)_

 

Hey, that's interesting. The most rugged I'd use my D10 for is while jogging on a treadmill 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looks like I can use it for that after all. Great!


----------



## HiFlight

My D10 has had a pretty rough life...been dropped quite a few times, accidentally removed opamps while testing with it still turned on, etc...
 It has had well over a hundred different opamps combinations installed and removed. 

 It just keeps sounding better all the time! 

 A treadmill will just be a walk in the park for it!!!


----------



## ABathingApe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With as much of a lunatic and hi-fi snob that I am, I don't see much use for an amp when I'm biking or motoring. You can't concentrate enough to gain any benefit. It's more like background music at that point_

 

I'd have to agree. There are more pressing things on my mind when I'm actively travelling.


----------



## theory_87

Why would you want to drop the D10? If I ever drop my D10, means my H140 is falling with it and I'll never let it happen.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why would you want to drop the D10? If I ever drop my D10, means my H140 is falling with it and I'll never let it happen._

 

No doubt. I dropped one of my H140's on the carpet from around three feet high and I panicked. Fear of breaking stuff that's been discontinued and no longer available is a great motivator for taking care of it.

 I ended up talking sweet to it for five minutes so it would forgive me.


----------



## rhw

head-fi tamagotchi


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No doubt. I dropped one of my H140's on the carpet from around three feet high and I panicked. Fear of breaking stuff that's been discontinued and no longer available is a great motivator for taking care of it.

 I ended up talking sweet to it for five minutes so it would forgive me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 












 I think your H140 must be thinking of life insurance at that point of time.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

OK, I couldn't avoid this thread anymore since it keeps bumping up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I bit the bullet and finally caught the few seconds of the day when the iBasso site is running and ordered the D10.

 Currently I'm using a Leckerton UHA-3 at work with my Super.Fi 5EB's. I've been wanting an upgrade for a bit so I've been looking at this and possibly the Predator but wasn't sure if I wanted to pay the extra $$ just yet.

 I will also use this with my 325i's and my HF2's on order. I listen to mostly new-soul, R&B, jazz, adult contemporary (Julia Fordham, Norah Jones, etc), latin, and acoustic guitar. I love the warm, tube sound of my Antique Sound Labs AV25's and I'm looking to get close to it on the D10.

 Some questions:

 1) I've seen various mentions of different combos of op amps/buffers. What's the recommendation for a warm, tube-like sound, mostly for the Grado pairing? I do understand there will be some burn-in before I really start to roll but I'm asking out of curiosity. 
 2) I've seen HiFlight's name and posts all over. Does he have a combo for a warm sound?
 3) Does HiFlight have a posting w/ Topkit suggestions and their signatures? I've seen posts identifying individual parts and their sound but didn't see anything on any specific kind of Topkit.

 Thanks to all for making me spend more money... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, the goal for me would be to get the right balance of improving my UHA-3 experience and Little Dot I+. Then I can sell both to justify this D10.


----------



## DonJuan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No doubt. I dropped one of my H140's on the carpet from around three feet high and I panicked. Fear of breaking stuff that's been discontinued and no longer available is a great motivator for taking care of it.

 I ended up talking sweet to it for five minutes so it would forgive me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Don't forget to kiss it where on its boo-boo


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_











 I think your H140 must be thinking of life insurance at that point of time._

 

The best life insurance it has now is it's iskin, a spare battery in the fridge, and it's three siblings that also live in my house (2 x H160's and an H130).


----------



## jamato8

Insurance I have is 4 H140's, 4 H120's (the guts go right into the 140 shell and a 120 for parts. Batteries and HD's in reserve. I am set. :^)


----------



## sbulack

Today, I've had a new sonic treat to listen to at work: my favorite music using the D10 with the following Topkit installed: OPA350 (CA) / EL8201 buffers. Using my favorite phones at work, Yuin PK1, the fullness of the sound (a really rich, satisfying spectral balance and full, lush, lifelike timbres, textures and spatial cues) is the best I've heard so far with the various Topkits: (AD743/AD8616), (AD743(CA)/AD8616), (AD744(OBCA)/EL8201), and today (OPA350(CA)/EL8201). The sound is rich in warm, lush detail. Tracks which can come across as overly bright have the glare removed so that the warm richness, as well as the lovely highs under the glare, can be heard better and more fully relaxed into and enjoyed without distraction or being obscured beneath the glare.

 This sound at work reminds me most of the warm, rich, lush sound I get at home, and with work-friendly PK1 buds. There's been no need to switch to the SE530 for a super-immersive, "WOW!!!" listening experience. With the more comfortable PK1, I'm getting the WOW!!! factor in abundance.

 I need to try the D10 with this Topkit installed with my full-sized phones when I get home: ALO-modded SR225 and HD650.

 A little catch-up:
 The AD743(CA) with AD8616 buffers has a slightly higher low-level exhale (with SE530) than the AD744(OBCA)/EL8201 - but, I have to listen for it to hear it. Otherwise, I don't notice it. Plenty of immersive WOW!!! factor with both SE530 and PK1. Moreso with the PK1 than AD744(OBCA)/EL8201. It plays well with both ALO-modded SR225 and HD650. With the SR225, this Topkit has more WOW!!! with crunchy/chunky electric guitars, and less WOW!!! with human voice than the AD744(OBCA)/EL8201 - but still a WOW!!! for both. AND, this Topkit in the D10 with HD650 yields a sound that I would call a Good Taste of the what the HD650 can do. Not on par with their performance with my personal favorite HD650 Desktop Amp (the Caliente), however, I'm not shaking my head and saying, "... but the HD650 can really sound BETTER than this" either. The sound is good enough to just relax and enjoy it. With this Topkit installed, I'd say that, yes, the D10 with USB input can drive the HD650, and give the listener a good taste of what the HD650 can do.

 I'm really loving today's Topkit: OPA350(CA)/EL8201's at work with the Yuin PK1's. I'll post more later on how it does with my full-sized phones at home.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The best life insurance it has now is it's iskin, a spare battery in the fridge, and it's three siblings that also live in my house (2 x H160's and an H130)._

 

You need a backup/parts source. I have 3 good H120 and 2 for parts.


----------



## YtseJamer

The D10 (with the Topkit) is very good with the Grado HF-2.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh no, they are out? I have some but should have bought more. There is nothing like nonpolar Black Gates. Frustration. . . . 

 File down that inner edge and you will be ok. Just that little bit of extra room will make everything much smoother._

 

Hey, they are still available at Sonic Craft.

 I filed down the inner edge of the casing and yes, now its way better. Thanks for the tips.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, they are still available at Sonic Craft.

 I filed down the inner edge of the casing and yes, now its way better. Thanks for the tips._

 

What did the BG caps change in the SQ?


----------



## DonJuan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D10 (with the Topkit) is very good with the Grado HF-2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

WHICH topkit? There are at least two...


----------



## pekingduck

slightly off-topic.. I was offered an H120 (in great condition with all the packaging and original accessories..) for around US $200.. seems a bit expensive to me though but I have no idea what price is considered reasonable... is it a good deal?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pekingduck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_slightly off-topic.. I was offered an H120 (in great condition with all the packaging and original accessories..) for around US $200.. seems a bit expensive to me though but I have no idea what price is considered reasonable... is it a good deal?_

 

I see them sell for that on ebay. I have paid less but they seem to be going back up in price. There isn't anything like them and if you Rockbox it (different operating system that is much better than the iRiver software), you have a really nice machine.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pekingduck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_slightly off-topic.. I was offered an H120 (in great condition with all the packaging and original accessories..) for around US $200.. seems a bit expensive to me though but I have no idea what price is considered reasonable... is it a good deal?_

 

I paid about $150 for mine plus shipping. With everything (CD, remote, charger, USB), $150 to $200 would be reasonable IMO.


----------



## wuwhere

They also tend to hold their value. If the hard drive breaks, you can use a 32gb SDHC/CF card. I bought one from ebay with a bad hard drive that I converted to a 32gb SDHC and Rockbox. No mechanical noise and faster access.


----------



## jamato8

Listening right now with the AD5686 with buffers bypassed and the sound is excellent. Very wide and deep with the JH13's.


----------



## fuseboxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Listening right now with the *AD5686* with buffers bypassed and the sound is excellent. Very wide and deep with the JH13's._

 

Just clarifying if you really meant to type AD5686 or you mean AD8656


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just clarifying if you really meant to type AD5686 or you mean AD8656 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sorry, 8656. Too many numbers from tubes to opamps to medical work to photography to . . . 

 Anyway, it sounds great. :^)


----------



## fuseboxx

Great! Wide and deep (with a bit of added brightness) is the general impression I hear when using the AD8656 /w bypassed buffers setup; and I can't wait to try it


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, they are still available at Sonic Craft._

 



> _a $10 handling fee for International orders in which the parts total is less than $100_


+ shipping costs

 maybe percyaudio does have some in stock, too

 btw. identified the two green caps in the D10 as 2A103J 0.01uF 5% 100V Plastic Film Caps
 Do not know whether a change will improve sound?


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What did the BG caps change in the SQ?_

 

Can't really say yet, my D10 sounded really flat now. The caps are not burn-in yet.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DonJuan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WHICH topkit? There are at least two..._

 

744/8201


----------



## StrayFelisCatus

Hi,

 I received my D10 in the mail yesterday. I connected it to my H120 with the cable from SysConcept, but there's no sound. Sorry if the answer is obvious, but I'm new to headphone amps...

 Also, when I was charging the D10, the orange light came on, and I left it to charge. The light was still on after more than six hours. I had the charge switch on. Am I doing something wrong?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StrayFelisCatus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 I received my D10 in the mail yesterday. I connected it to my H120 with the cable from SysConcept, but there's no sound. Sorry if the answer is obvious, but I'm new to headphone amps...

 Also, when I was charging the D10, the orange light came on, and I left it to charge. The light was still on after more than six hours. I had the charge switch on. Am I doing something wrong?_

 

You have to turn the optical "on" on the H120 in the menu section. 

 The charge light normally stays on. Not the best indicator.


----------



## StrayFelisCatus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have to turn the optical "on" on the H120 in the menu section. 

 The charge light normally stays on. Not the best indicator._

 

Okay, good to know. I'm glad that it has overcharge protection then.

 EDIT: I turned the optical on, but there's still no sound. Anything else I can try?


----------



## rhw

Turn off the D10 and on again
 that the optical signal is detected by the D10.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the stock ADA4841-2 I was getting a little bit of iPhone buzz, even with my Quick Bridge Solutions - EM Shield for iPhone EM blocking card. But with the LTC6241HV and stock buffers it sounds very nice and I am not hearing iPhone buzz even with my phone sitting a few inches away.

 I think the AD8656 sounds a little edgier in the buffer slots with IEM, especially Westone 3 but not with ES3X, while it helps wake up the HD600 a little better. Anyone else hear that with the AD8656 as buffers?

 My AD8599 was damaged in shipping, and another is on the way._

 

Are you saying that your component changes filtered out the GSM buzz?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldskoolboarder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you saying that your component changes filtered out the GSM buzz?_

 

Yes, it is a known issue with iBasso amps using the ADA4841-2 opamp. I eventually did hear some buzz with the LTC6241 but it was less than stock, and my AD744OBCA/EL8201 has very minimal buzz and less than stock.


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

Well folks, I finally pulled the trigger on the D10 Cobra. After a DH(eL)L ism, It was actually delivered the same day they "missed" the delivery when I WAS HOME and they failed to ring the doorbell.

 Enough of the complaints. On to the good.

 It sounds _fantastic_. I mean, I thought the T4 was nice. Lively even. More fun than my old HeadRoom Cosmic Traveler. But this D10 Cobra... Jaw Dropping for me. Spacious. Articulate. Detailed. I've also heard those "microdynamics" some folks have talked about, and that's just with analog.

 Now enter optical, (haven't tried USB or COAXIAL digital yet, maybe never will) but wow. OPTICAL!!

 Talk about high-resolution. This sounds a fair margin better than the Micro DAC I bought and returned to HeadRoom. Maybe it's because of the DAC chip. Maybe because of the iBasso circuit design... I dunno, but I likey. That's for sure!

 It's now got about 12 hours burn in on the optical system. I will run that and then start playing with the analog side.

 Although for fun, right now I am running this setup:

 AUZEN X-Meridian > Optical > iBasso D10 Cobra > iBasso CB01 > iBasso T4 > Moon Audio Black Dragon w/ Neutrik Plugs > Boostaroo Revolution > generic IC > FiiO E5 > Grado SR60 Cans...

 Very Fun Rock setup.... and Quad Amplification! (it wasn't loud enough for me earlier...)

 Well Everyone, I'm happy to be a part of the "D10 Cobra Owner's Club"

 Here's a few shots:







 and next to my COWON O2PMP


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FLACvest* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Although for fun, right now I am running this setup:

 AUZEN X-Meridian > Optical > iBasso D10 Cobra > iBasso CB01 > iBasso T4 > Moon Audio Black Dragon w/ Neutrik Plugs > Boostaroo Revolution > generic IC > FiiO E5 > Grado SR60 Cans...

 Very Fun Rock setup.... and Quad Amplification! (it wasn't loud enough for me earlier...)_

 

Confirmed - you are more nuts than me!


----------



## fuseboxx

Has anyone here used the D10 to drive speakers instead of headphones?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FLACvest* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AUZEN X-Meridian > Optical > iBasso D10 Cobra > iBasso CB01 > iBasso T4 > Moon Audio Black Dragon w/ Neutrik Plugs > Boostaroo Revolution > generic IC > FiiO E5 > Grado SR60 Cans..._

 

Haha that's crazy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm just wondering though: Is it safe to chain them like that? Won't that cause any damage to any part of the circuitry of any of the chained gears?


----------



## Anouk

Hey Flacvest, welcome to the club!
 I just remembered yesterday that my big computer (that i dont use much because its a noisy beast) DOES have optical AND usb, although I tried it when I still had my headroom and wasnt impressed over it then when using usb but maybe thats because of the realtek alc883 chip. I have to reinstall the machine because tomorrow my poweramp will finally be back from repairs and my d10 is still at bonthouse, for some reason my little toshibal laptop wont play sound through its soundcard anymore (probbably cause of a crash) so the pc will be getting some use again.
 I will try the d10 through my pcs optical, hopefully its better then the headroom was through it and will be somewhere near the iriver because that sounded REALLY good (with the d10 as dac-only).
 IU wonder though has anytone got the usb-charging to work when they use their ibasso through optical on the seem pc? I guess the automatic switching chip does have its downsides after all.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## bakhtiar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StrayFelisCatus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, good to know. I'm glad that it has overcharge protection then.

 EDIT: I turned the optical on, but there's still no sound. Anything else I can try?_

 

1) Before connecting to the D10, try check the cable's end. You should see a red light coming out from it. 

 2) Make sure that you plug it fit and securely, ie, the plug should not be moving at all. 

 3) Try the optical output from other device, example, CD or DVD player. 


 Good Luck, and hope you enjoy the D10


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Flacvest, welcome to the club!
 I just remembered yesterday that my big computer (that i dont use much because its a noisy beast) DOES have optical AND usb, although I tried it when I still had my headroom and wasnt impressed over it then when using usb but maybe thats because of the realtek alc883 chip. I have to reinstall the machine because tomorrow my poweramp will finally be back from repairs and my d10 is still at bonthouse, for some reason my little toshibal laptop wont play sound through its soundcard anymore (probbably cause of a crash) so the pc will be getting some use again.
 I will try the d10 through my pcs optical, hopefully its better then the headroom was through it and will be somewhere near the iriver because that sounded REALLY good (with the d10 as dac-only).
 IU wonder though has anytone got the usb-charging to work when they use their ibasso through optical on the seem pc? I guess the automatic switching chip does have its downsides after all.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

I have no trouble with my Macbook with listening via optical while charging via USB. I just tell the Mac to play sound via optical, and when I switch on the D10 while music is playing it detects optical. A few times I have simply had to switch the D10 off and then back on a couple of times. Other times I will be playing music via optical through the D10, and then plug it into USB when the battery is low, and it keeps playing via optical.


----------



## rhw

The same at my side, like Larry described.

 the iBasso owners manual tells:
 ... the digital inputs are searched ... in sequence of 1. coax, 2. optical, 3. USB ...

 therefore digital is detected before USB ....


----------



## raymondu999

Whoa so how many topkits are there actually now? 3? 4?


----------



## Anouk

Thanks for the info Larry, rhw, I wonder is coax better then optical because my pc has both and I should have a coaxial cable lying around here somewhere.
 I am still planning to get a macbook pro for on the go though I will try one out at the store here (I recently discovered that we have apple stores here in nl as well).
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## bakhtiar

Coax/RCA vs Toslink/optical.
 In digital world, 0 is 0, 1 is 1. Both should be same. If we considering a noise leak, in circuit, the coax is more prone to the noise, IMHO.


----------



## rhw

In audiophile circle Coax is called to sound better than Optical, but I will wonder whether a difference will be heard with the D10 and computer source.
 Well, coax is one (or two) chip(s) less. No ground loop problems with optical.
 I havn't tried it. My MB has only optical out, my CD transport only coax.....


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *raymondu999* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whoa so how many topkits are there actually now? 3? 4?_

 

There are two TopKits by Ron/HiFlight
 743/8616
 744OB-CA/EL8201


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone here used the D10 to drive speakers instead of headphones?_

 

You will need some HIGH efficient speakers to do this.
 (I tried it with some small portable passive PC speakers, but it was not very loud..... no go.)

 Maybe some big horns will do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 As a pre amp it will be fine.


----------



## fuseboxx

^ got it. thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW... going back a bit to that opamp-rolling mini-guides... where exactly should I clip the end of the ground bracelet to?

 I've been reading that I should clip it to "the ground connector of your wall outlet"...

 Now, considering that we don't have strict standards as far as electrical layouting is concerned here in the Philippines, I don't exactly know what that means.

 Our wall outlet looks more or less like the one on the right, which is lucky since most wall outlets here are actually like the one on the left:






 Where do I clip it to?


----------



## bakhtiar

ILeft or Right... 50/50 chance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't dare to clip to the wall socket outlets, even it has ground socket. Just ground it the metal body of the equipment should be sufficient. Or, in old days style, clip it to a metal WATER pipe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, not the wall socket.


----------



## fuseboxx

Thanks! So in the case of the D10, I should just clip it to the metal edge of the frame once I remove the casing?


----------



## fuseboxx

_double post. sorry._


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! So in the case of the D10, I should just clip it to the metal edge of the frame once I remove the casing?_

 

If you have a desktop computer, try clipping to the metal casing of the computer. In PC, I normally have the PC plugged in and clip it around the PC power supply fan area.


----------



## fuseboxx

I don't have a desktop computer right now


----------



## Nuge

Has anyone heard the RS-1 paired with the D10? I recently purchased the D10 and it has pretty good synergy with the ATH-ES7. I am contemplating purchasing the RS-1 later in the year, and want to know how great they sound with the D10 as a combined amp/dac out of a laptop, rather than just straight out of an ipod.


----------



## HiFlight

I owned a set of RS-1 phones that were recabled with APS v3, and they sounded just fine with the D10. They are a good match.


----------



## fuseboxx

Just occurred to me: Can the D10 be used as a recording interface like this?

 Microphone --> D10 Aux I/O --> Laptop

 After all, the label under the jack does say AUX *IN*/OUT

 I would try it myself if I weren't at work right now and I had a microphone; but just in case someone can answer, that would be great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I used to dabble in recording through the Aux I/O of the built-in soundcard of my laptop; and though it captured the sound, it wasn't that great. If it were possible to record through the D10, I was just wondering if there would be any significant improvement.


----------



## Anouk

Hello all, A lot of luick and fun with your new d10 and iriver combo Leesc, I know you will love it once you get the hang of the controls if you have the opportunity try to ocnnect the aux from the d10 to some kind of external amp one day. 
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have no trouble with my Macbook with listening via optical while charging via USB. I just tell the Mac to play sound via optical, and when I switch on the D10 while music is playing it detects optical. A few times I have simply had to switch the D10 off and then back on a couple of times. Other times I will be playing music via optical through the D10, and then plug it into USB when the battery is low, and it keeps playing via optical._

 

Have you noticed a SQ difference using the USB on your Macbook (DAC mode I suppose) vs the optical output when playing the same music?


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FLACvest* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well folks, I finally pulled the trigger on the D10 Cobra. After a DH(eL)L ism, It was actually delivered the same day they "missed" the delivery when I WAS HOME and they failed to ring the doorbell.

 Enough of the complaints. On to the good.

 It sounds _fantastic_. I mean, I thought the T4 was nice. Lively even. More fun than my old HeadRoom Cosmic Traveler. But this D10 Cobra... Jaw Dropping for me. Spacious. Articulate. Detailed. I've also heard those "microdynamics" some folks have talked about, and that's just with analog.

 Now enter optical, (haven't tried USB or COAXIAL digital yet, maybe never will) but wow. OPTICAL!!

 Talk about high-resolution. This sounds a fair margin better than the Micro DAC I bought and returned to HeadRoom. Maybe it's because of the DAC chip. Maybe because of the iBasso circuit design... I dunno, but I likey. That's for sure!

 It's now got about 12 hours burn in on the optical system. I will run that and then start playing with the analog side.

 Although for fun, right now I am running this setup:

 AUZEN X-Meridian > Optical > iBasso D10 Cobra > iBasso CB01 > iBasso T4 > Moon Audio Black Dragon w/ Neutrik Plugs > Boostaroo Revolution > generic IC > FiiO E5 > Grado SR60 Cans...

 Very Fun Rock setup.... and Quad Amplification! (it wasn't loud enough for me earlier...)

 Well Everyone, I'm happy to be a part of the "D10 Cobra Owner's Club"

 Here's a few shots:
_

 

How long did it take you from order date to receipt in the Bay Area? I ordered on Monday, curious when I'll get it in Menlo Park.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just occurred to me: Can the D10 be used as a recording interface like this?

 Microphone --> D10 Aux I/O --> Laptop

 After all, the label under the jack does say AUX *IN*/OUT

 I would try it myself if I weren't at work right now and I had a microphone; but just in case someone can answer, that would be great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I used to dabble in recording through the Aux I/O of the built-in soundcard of my laptop; and though it captured the sound, it wasn't that great. If it were possible to record through the D10, I was just wondering if there would be any significant improvement._

 

The Aux In o f the D10 will forward the signal to the headphone amp not the DAC. + The D10 has no mic preamp.
 Well, unfortunately it is not a bi-directional DAC.


----------



## fuseboxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Aux In o f the D10 will forward the signal to the headphone amp not the DAC_

 

Oh yeah, dang I forgot that. I get it. Thanks for reminding me!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I owned a set of RS-1 phones that were recabled with APS v3, and they sounded just fine with the D10. They are a good match._

 

Me too - I agree!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldskoolboarder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you noticed a SQ difference using the USB on your Macbook (DAC mode I suppose) vs the optical output when playing the same music?_

 

You can read my review because it goes into more detail than I can do here.

UPDATED 2/22 REVIEW 13 USB DAC amp - Predator, Pico, 2/3MOVE, D10 D3 D2 Viper/Boa D1, Lyrix, MicroAmp, Vivid V1, Nuforce, XM5 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 I also discussed my findings using the D10 with a variety of headphones (including the RS-1 inquired about above), and compared to several other DAC/amps.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just occurred to me: Can the D10 be used as a recording interface like this?

 Microphone --> D10 Aux I/O --> Laptop

 After all, the label under the jack does say AUX *IN*/OUT

 I would try it myself if I weren't at work right now and I had a microphone; but just in case someone can answer, that would be great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I used to dabble in recording through the Aux I/O of the built-in soundcard of my laptop; and though it captured the sound, it wasn't that great. If it were possible to record through the D10, I was just wondering if there would be any significant improvement._

 

According to my audio midi setup app in macbook pro using the D10 as a 16/48 input looks possible, but I never tried it because I assume that it will always be used for analog input into the amp. I'm not sure how the D10 can forward aux-in sound to the input of the mac, even though the mac detects that capability on the USB port.


----------



## bakhtiar

You need ADC (Analog Digital Conver) to convert line in / mic before it can be converted to USB data stream such as in Nuforce Icon Mobile (mic input from NE-7Ms). D10 did not has the ADC facility.


----------



## gilency

Can you use the DAC portion of the D10 out of USB power like the Pico or does the DAC (without amp) need either battery or electric plug for it to work? I am wondering because I am trying to decide between it and the Pico, which as I understand, is able to use DAC only out of USB power (without using battery or electric plug) . Is this correct?


----------



## bakhtiar

1) You can use the DAC and AMP without any power from USB. It runs on battery.
 2) You can charging your D10, and listen through USB audio at the same time.


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) You can use the DAC and AMP without any power from USB. It runs on battery.
 2) You can charging your D10, and listen through USB audio at the same time._

 

Sorry but that did not answer my question...see my previous post.


----------



## bakhtiar

IC. The AMP and DAC section run on battery, If the Charge toggle switch is at OFF position, the AMP/DAC will runs until the battery dries up. I hope this is the answer that you are looking for.


----------



## gilency

If I understand you correctly, you can not run the DAC out of USB power only like the Pico. If you connect it to a desktop system and don't want it to run in batteries, would you have to run it plugged in? Thanks.


----------



## bakhtiar

Sorry, I misunderstood your question.
 Ok, so you want the DAC section via USB only, regardless the battery status.
 PC-USB->D10-DAC-> AUXOUT.

 Ok, TBH, I never tried the setup yet, so I unable to answer it.


----------



## gilency

Thanks for trying. The reason I ask is with the Pico DAC you don't need to worry about batteries or wallwart, and that is a big plus for me.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for trying. The reason I ask is with the Pico DAC you don't need to worry about batteries or wallwart, and that is a big plus for me._

 

You may charge your D10 through the USB simultaneously. Hence there is no need to worry about the battery as well.


----------



## csh08

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I understand you correctly, you can not run the DAC out of USB power only like the Pico. If you connect it to a desktop system and don't want it to run in batteries, would you have to run it plugged in? Thanks._

 

The D10 always operates from the internal battery power - when the charge switch is turned on the battery is being charged but the DAC and amp are still running from battery power - when the charge switch is being turned off the DAC and amp are powered from the battery, which is not being charged.


----------



## madwolf

I just bought this amplifier, after a 20 min audition, I am very impressed with the sound from the audition sample.

 Quick question, does it have much more potential by rolling op amp, and other tweak. How much gain are we looking at. Should I bother with tweak ? 

 After I got home, Even before I listen to the AMP 
 I open up the amplifier and a few things strike me. 
 1) A relay (Good), 
 2) Dale Resistor (Good). 
 3) Mica Cap in zobel circuit. 
 4) Cannot really see what capacitor they are using for DC blocking. 
 5) Is there a Crystal ? Cannot find it. Lots of capacitors. 
 6) Socketed OP-AMP. Buffer and drivers. This is the single most time consuming feature an AMP could have. I cannot imagine how much time (and money) I would spend on this one feature.
 7) WM8740. This is 24 bits. How Sweet. (What do you expect Ak4397 ? )
 8) The Gain Switch have little effect. Sound like 2X in gain 3db difference only. May not be a bad thing. 

 What I dislike about the amplifier 
 1) when the Amplifier is turn on there is a huge POP sound. 
 I heard the relay turn on, The AMTEL controller should introduce a small delay so that there would not be a huge pop sound. Just need an extra RC. It hurt my ear as I have a sensitive IEM attached 
 3) A50K resistor for volume control, A bit high for my liking. 
 4) This AMP is very sensitive to Static and RF from mobile phone. 
 5) When the AMP is off, Some decay sound. 
 6) A useless Charge ON/OFF switch. I could off the USB charger or just unplug the USB. Confuse people to ask if one should switch on or off. 
 7) A dedicated ON/OFF switch would be good for A/B testing. I like to keep the volume fixed.

 How burning in the AMP. And dreaming how beautiful it would sound
	

	
	
		
		

		
			

















 Oh I forgot My wallet is nagging me again............


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I dislike about the amplifier 
 1) when the Amplifier is turn on there is a huge POP sound. _

 

This is a characteristic of the stock opamp. Other rolled combinations I have tried have not exhibited the same problem. Same as the RF interference issue you mention.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello all, A lot of luick and fun with your new d10 and iriver combo Leesc, I know you will love it once you get the hang of the controls if you have the opportunity try to ocnnect the aux from the d10 to some kind of external amp one day. 
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Getting there. I am just trying to figure out whether I want to convert all my Apple lossless to FLAC.... Thanks for your help.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Getting there. I am just trying to figure out whether I want to convert all my Apple lossless to FLAC.... Thanks for your help. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No need to convert. RB your iriver will do.


----------



## rhw

A bit off topic
 can anyone give me a short explanation or a link about the function of the buffer (opamps) in an amp like the iBasso?
 I am running a 228CA opamp at the moment with bypassed buffers - not bad at all.

 Edit: Okay, googled a bit - seems to be something with lowering impedance or increasing current.
 Edit: 228CA sounds better with buffer (8656)


----------



## Anouk

Hey LEesc,i myself only used flac files but rockbox supports a huge variety, check their site to see if your desired format is supported.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A bit off topic
 can anyone give me a short explanation or a link about the function of the buffer (opamps) in an amp like the iBasso?
 I am running a 228CA opamp at the moment with bypassed buffers - not bad at all.

 Edit: Okay, googled a bit - seems to be something with lowering impedance or increasing current.
 Edit: 228CA sounds better with buffer (8656)_

 

Buffer is for headphone impedance matching and current supply - opamps typically are not designed to drive headphones directly, so buffers are used (sometimes like the BUF634 in some amps)


----------



## gilency

Larry: I asked earlier but nobody seem to know for sure: can you use the iBasso D10's DAC like the Pico DAC i.e. no need for batteries or wallwart? That is one feature of the Pico I am interested on.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry: I asked earlier but nobody seem to know for sure: can you use the iBasso D10's DAC like the Pico DAC i.e. no need for batteries or wallwart? That is one feature of the Pico I am interested on._

 

It was answered in this post recently: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5851896-post2847.html

 You could leave it plugged into USB 24/7 with the charge switch on, and it will run for as long as the computer is running, and never need to be plugged into the wall just like the Pico DAC-only. But the battery always stands between the DAC/amp sections and USB power, as a buffer. So the D10 will always draw power from the battery, but the USB keeps the battery topped off. The DAC/amp are like the river on the downstream side of the dam, the reservoir or lake above the dam is the battery, and the river upstream is the USB power. 

 Leaving it "charging" all the time to top off the battery can possibly drain a laptop battery faster. So, unlike the Nuforce Icon Mobile and Vivid Audio Tech V1 that also charge via USB, the D10 gives you the option to turn off USB charging. With charging off the D10 will run down it's battery over 20-40 hours but not use up the laptop battery. I don't know if that will get you an extra 10, 15 or 30 minutes of run time on your laptop, but it might be enough to let you finish a project, or movie or CD before the laptop battery is used up.


----------



## gilency

Thank you. My bad I missed the post you mentioned. Like a needle in a haystack!


----------



## madwolf

This 2 green capacitors are Mica and they formed the Zobel circuit. 
 It is mainly use to match impedance with the wire and phone 

 Should not affect the sound in any great way. 
 On the picture the Red caps are the bypass capacitors, They will affect sound the MOST. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



a $10 handling fee for International orders in which the parts total is less than $100

Click to expand...

+ shipping costs

 maybe percyaudio does have some in stock, too

 btw. identified the two green caps in the D10 as 2A103J 0.01uF 5% 100V Plastic Film Caps
 Do not know whether a change will improve sound?





_


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This 2 green capacitors are Mica and they formed the Zobel circuit. 
 It is mainly use to match impedance with the wire and phone 

 Should not affect the sound in any great way. 
 On the picture the Red caps are the bypass capacitors, They will affect sound the MOST._

 

Thanks!

 Red caps are already Black Gates .....


----------



## madwolf

Have you burn in the BG, Care to share your impression of the black gates ? 
 I see you are using Black Gate N type, What the size and rating that you are using. 

 The original are 16V 470uf Aluminum Polarized capacitor. 
 I guess I will change this first before rolling OP-AMP 
 I might go straight to MKP types of capacitors.


----------



## rhw

Like John/Jamato
 I used BG NX 220uf/6.3v and 470uF/6.3V ....
 still burning in ....

 You will need a much bigger case for the MKP caps


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldskoolboarder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long did it take you from order date to receipt in the Bay Area? I ordered on Monday, curious when I'll get it in Menlo Park._

 

Well my order time was slowed by the eCheck processing, but once that cleared it was the standard 2 days of iBasso quick processing!! DHL even did a second attempt during the SAME DAY and then i received the D10 Cobra!! I'm a happy guy!

 You should have similar luck.


----------



## madwolf

Yes I would have to find the biggest that would fit in the casing. 
 Likely the capacitance would be small But I do not think it would be a problem. 
 I would only change the Bipass to MKP. 

 For the Power supply, I may stick with the original, as I do not think it would make much difference. Since it it always powered by the the battery I think the ESR would have been very low. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like John/Jamato
 I used BG NX 220uf/6.3v and 470uF/6.3V ....
 still burning in ....

 You will need a much bigger case for the MKP caps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## fuseboxx

I was just able to try the iBasso D10 with the Dared MP-5 Vacuum Tube Amp for a day! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This was my chain:

*PC >> D10-DAC >> Dared Amp >> DT770*

 and here are my impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


LINK

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway, now that I've tried it out considerably and I'm back to my default setup, here are some brief impressions:

 It packs a great amount of power since I was able to drive by 250ohm DT770's with the knob only at 12 o'clock as opposed to the D10, which has to be turned to around 4 o'clock. I even played around with it more and put all the sliders of the foobar EQ down to -20dB, and still the Dared was able to provide ear-splitting volume with the knob at 4 o'clock.

 The sound is just great. Aside from what I assume are common traits of tube amps (warm, smooth & dark), the thing that appealed to me about the Dared is that it sounds very open and spacious. 

 I kept on doing an A-B comparison of the *pc>d10-dac>dared>dt770* vs *pc>d10-combo>dt770* using The Dave Matthews Band's "Lover Lay Down" and I was very impressed with the Dared's clear and accurate imaging. You could instantly hear the difference from the first few seconds when the cymbals come in and pan from right to left.

 I love how wide and deep I'm able to hear with this and my only possible issue is that with my setup, the sound might be too fat and thick for my taste - but I need some more time with it to listen to more music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Unfortunately, my one-day audition is over. Haha. Maybe another time._


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This 2 green capacitors are Mica and they formed the Zobel circuit. 
 It is mainly use to match impedance with the wire and phone 

 Should not affect the sound in any great way. 
 On the picture the Red caps are the bypass capacitors, They will affect sound the MOST._

 

The red caps is signal caps if i'm not wrong and not decoupling capacitors which are also known as bypass capacitors. Decoupling cap is the red wima cap near the signal opamp


----------



## LevA

hey everyone,

 need help....just installed the topkit (744OBCA/8201) in the D10 but I'm only getting sound on the left. whats the cause of this? I thought it might be the buffers but I swapped them around and still the same, sound coming only from the left....so i figure it must be the opamp. am I correct? 

 Edit: Just spoke to Ron so all is well. he will check to see what's wrong and if needed will be replaced.


----------



## madwolf

As far as I could see there are only 1 WIMA capacitor. 

 So I do not think it is in the Signal path. It would come in pair. 

 The Red Capacitor are connect to the output of The buffer amp. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The red caps is signal caps if i'm not wrong and not decoupling capacitors which are also known as bypass capacitors. Decoupling cap is the red wima cap near the signal opamp_


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I could see there are only 1 WIMA capacitor. 

 So I do not think it is in the Signal path. It would come in pair. 

 The Red Capacitor are connect to the output of The buffer amp._

 

In normal case, a bypass cap will never use such a huge value. Unless D10 design different...


----------



## oldskoolboarder

My new D10 was delivered by DHL today. WOO HOO!! I'll be busy this weekend...


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No need to convert. RB your iriver will do._

 

Thanks, that helps. Optical input is definitely nicer than USB input.


----------



## Packgrog

Speaking of optical out...

 I know I haven't been following this thread closely, but did anyone else notice that the latest official release of Rockbox (v3.3) now fully supports 24/96 files? I just tried it with my H120 and iBasso D1 (still can't afford the D10, dammit), and it works BEAUTIFULLY! It does NOT handle 24/192, but that's rather excessive anyway, and 24/96 is PLENTY.

 Time to break out those studio masters and hi-res vinyl rips, folks! And I suspect you D10 owners will notice the difference even more than I do. Sweet!

 Sorry if I'm restating what you all already know (it was released in JUNE; I've been under a rock). If you didn't know, go fetch!


----------



## madwolf

I have been reading the Circuit of the D10 

 Can owners of D10 help me compare the Amplifier with the 2 different Gain setting.

 It seem from the circuit it is not a pure Gain control, but a different bias point. 
 It should give a slightly different taste to the sound.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been reading the Circuit of the D10 

 Can owners of D10 help me compare the Amplifier with the 2 different Gain setting.

 It seem from the circuit it is not a pure Gain control, but a different bias point. 
 It should give a slightly different taste to the sound._

 

I'm using an ER4S and I actually prefer the lo gain, which I listen to all the time.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Which is the low setting, up or down? It's not mentioned in the instruction sheet.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Packgrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of optical out...

 I know I haven't been following this thread closely, but did anyone else notice that the latest official release of Rockbox (v3.3) now fully supports 24/96 files? I just tried it with my H120 and iBasso D1 (still can't afford the D10, dammit), and it works BEAUTIFULLY! It does NOT handle 24/192, but that's rather excessive anyway, and 24/96 is PLENTY.

 Time to break out those studio masters and hi-res vinyl rips, folks! And I suspect you D10 owners will notice the difference even more than I do. Sweet!

 Sorry if I'm restating what you all already know (it was released in JUNE; I've been under a rock). If you didn't know, go fetch! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

On my Macbook I could not get my old D1 to support higher than 24/48, and the sound was static'y and cut out when I set the optical out to 24/96. The D10 have never had that problem.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldskoolboarder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which is the low setting, up or down? It's not mentioned in the instruction sheet._

 

Down.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Thanks wuwhere.

 Doing a quick A/B tonight via USB on my Macbook. I tried a few Jake Shimabukuru songs ripped in ALAC. Bear in mind there's zero burn in time on the D10, where the UHA3 has quite a bit of burn in. The D10 is surprisingly warm out of the box, enough that I notice the strings lingering a bit, in way that I like. Good match, for now, w/ my 325i's. I tried some vocals and there appears to be a bit of siblance that I don't notice on the UHA3. Hopefully, that'll go away after burn in. Soundstage is slightly larger on the D10 as well.


----------



## jamato8

On my Black Gate modded D10 I notice further changes as the BG's take so long to form. The amp has continued to become more fluid and is one of the best sounding portables I have.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On my Black Gate modded D10 I notice further changes as the BG's take so long to form. The amp has continued to become more fluid and is one of the best sounding portables I have._

 

Hi Jam,

 How long have you had the BGs in your D10, i.e., ~hours?


----------



## jamato8

2 months or so, maybe longer.


----------



## wuwhere

That would fall roughly between 450 - 550 hrs, which for me w/ the stock caps, was how long my D10 completely settled.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That would fall roughly between 450 - 550 hrs, which for me w/ the stock caps, was how long my D10 completely settled._

 

I have to look back on my notes as I did it some time back. With the forming time of the Black Gates being up to 800 to 1000 hours, frustration at knowing the final sound is often a factor of using the BG's but it doesn't matter much as they are out of production and few remain.


----------



## oxophone

Jamato8 , do you know when Ibasso will come up with *D10 DAC only* - as Miguel mentions in another post?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oxophone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jamato8 , do you know when Ibasso will come up with *D10 DAC only* - as Miguel mentions in another post?_

 

X2


----------



## jamato8

The last time I discussed this with them they weren't going to. There may be an OEM though.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The last time I discussed this with them they weren't going to. There may be an OEM though._

 

Ryuzoh's company is supposed to release it. Last I heard, he was super busy trying to get that company off the ground this quarter. Check the OEM thread, I think he mentions it there.


----------



## jamato8

Yep, he has much to do. The amp he will be releasing sound very excellent.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, he has much to do. The amp he will be releasing sound very excellent._

 

Is it the surprise portable amp?


----------



## jamato8

No.

 It will surprise people with great sound though.


----------



## bakhtiar

Wondering how much better than the current D10 ?


----------



## raymondu999

Are you actually talking about the mythical D10 successor?


----------



## fuseboxx

Has anyone tried an AD8656 /w LMH6643 buffers combination?

 How does this compare to the popular AD8656 /w bypassed buffers combination?


----------



## madwolf

Some Bad news for current D10 owners. 
 Someone at the D10 team made a mistake and a wrong part made it way to the board. 

 The part in question is R134. The part that was soldered on was 47K ohm (marking 473) Resistor. The correct part should be 4.7K ohm. 






 This resistor should be the same value as R136 shown on the picture. 
 The one with marking 472 

 What is the resistor role and What does it affect ?
 The resistor bias the transistor beside it and the transistor is on when you switch the gain to HIGH (Switch up). The transistor pull an additional resistor to ground. Thereby increasing the gain of the AMP. 
 As one is used for the left and one for the right you would want both R134 and R136 to the of the same value.
 The circuit run with the Vishay (most expensive) resistor on the board to set the gain. 

 How the good news 
 It does not affect the sound in any way when the amp is set to low gain. 
 Cause at this mode the transistor is off. 


 Why I think it should be 4.7K and not 47K ? 
 As long as the transistor is ON with the same strength it should not matter. 
 But if I where to use the gain switch to switch the gain from 2 to 3. I would want it as hard on as possible. 

 Sorry for breaking your Heart. I paid SGD400++ for this as well.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some Bad news for current D10 owners. 
 Someone at the D10 team made a mistake and a wrong part made it way to the board. 

 The part in question is R134. The part that was soldered on was 47K ohm (marking 473) Resistor. The correct part should be 4.7K ohm. 






 This resistor should be the same value as R136 shown on the picture. 
 The one with marking 472 

 What is the resistor role and What does it affect ?
 The resistor bias the transistor beside it and the transistor is on when you switch the gain to HIGH (Switch up). The transistor pull an additional resistor to ground. Thereby increasing the gain of the AMP. 
 As one is used for the left and one for the right you would want both R134 and R136 to the of the same value.
 The circuit run with the Vishay (most expensive) resistor on the board to set the gain. 

 How the good news 
 It does not affect the sound in any way when the amp is set to low gain. 
 Cause at this mode the transistor is off. 


 Why I think it should be 4.7K and not 47K ? 
 As long as the transistor is ON with the same strength it should not matter. 
 But if I where to use the gain switch to switch the gain from 2 to 3. I would want it as hard on as possible. 

 Sorry for breaking your Heart. I paid SGD400++ for this as well._

 

Has iBasso confirmed this? Thanks.

 I always listen with the toggle switch in the down position. I always felt that it sounded less bright.


----------



## wuwhere

BTW madwolf, excellent catch.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Do we know the specs of the correct resistor? You said 4.7K but what SMT size and tolerance? I might be able to find one in my lab at work.

 Mine's been burning for about 40 hours straight out of my Macbook. 'Seems' to be a tad warmer but that might be wishful listening.

 Does anyone have a suggestion for the warmest sounding OPAMP combo, Topkit included? I want to see if I can get close to my new Hornet.


----------



## wuwhere

madwolf stated that it is a Vishay resistor.

 I'm using the EL8201 Buffers/AD744 Opamp topkit. I felt that these are much warmer, the bass region really improved, more body and deeper compared to the stock.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *raymondu999* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you actually talking about the mythical D10 successor? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I think he's talking about the OEM project. I'm not sure if the D10+ is on the drawing board or not...guess I'll have to find out!


----------



## madwolf

I have change the wrong resistor to a 4.7K to check if what I thought was correct.






 Now when I switch the gain, The sound just open up, much like turning up the volume. It has the same sound signature at either setting. 

 Before the change, The sound signature is slightly different. 
 At high gain the sound is thinner and have a wider soundstage. 
 At low gain it is warmer and sweeter. 

 I can hear a difference.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Before the change, The sound signature is slightly different. 
 At high gain the sound is thinner and have a wider soundstage. 
 At low gain it is warmer and sweeter. 

 I can hear a difference._

 

That's what I am hearing whenever I toggle up. That's why I only listen toggle down. Somebody else here posted the same thing. Guess I'll do some desoldering/soldering, waiting for my new solder station that I just bought.

 Thanks madwolf.


----------



## jamato8

Good catch and easy fix for those who solder.


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good catch and easy fix for those who solder._

 

I hope Ibasso is notified about this.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some Bad news for current D10 owners. 
 Someone at the D10 team made a mistake and a wrong part made it way to the board. 

 The part in question is R134. The part that was soldered on was 47K ohm (marking 473) Resistor. The correct part should be 4.7K ohm. 






 This resistor should be the same value as R136 shown on the picture. 
 The one with marking 472 

 What is the resistor role and What does it affect ?
 The resistor bias the transistor beside it and the transistor is on when you switch the gain to HIGH (Switch up). The transistor pull an additional resistor to ground. Thereby increasing the gain of the AMP. 
 As one is used for the left and one for the right you would want both R134 and R136 to the of the same value.
 The circuit run with the Vishay (most expensive) resistor on the board to set the gain. 

 How the good news 
 It does not affect the sound in any way when the amp is set to low gain. 
 Cause at this mode the transistor is off. 


 Why I think it should be 4.7K and not 47K ? 
 As long as the transistor is ON with the same strength it should not matter. 
 But if I where to use the gain switch to switch the gain from 2 to 3. I would want it as hard on as possible. 

 Sorry for breaking your Heart. I paid SGD400++ for this as well._

 

Could this explain why the gain switch on high increases the volume in my left ear slightly more than the right? I use it all the time in low gain, so it isn't much of an issue for me but I'd like to have that fixed. (PS - tested by leaving one earpiece out of one ear, and flipping the gain from lo to hi, and then trying the other ear)


----------



## wuwhere

Does anyone knows if rolling opamps affect the D10's line out too?


----------



## jamato8

I let iBasso know about the resistor and pointed them to page 193 of this thread so they could see the comments etc.


----------



## wuwhere

Good stuff Jam.


----------



## wolfen68

I have always preferred low gain but couldn't put my finger on why. If this is true...it would be nice that D10 owners have an option to have it repaired under warranty.


----------



## ryuzoh

I think this is not wrong.

 Actually, gain setting transistors are Q9 and Q11.
 The Q14 and Q15 are watching signals from input jack and switching functions.
 That is depending on signal revel in input jack.

 It realizes automatically switching between Aux in or output from DAC on input jack.

 -----------------added------------------
 IMO, gain setting in D10 is utterly ineffective......very, very, slightly but not unbalanced between L and R.


----------



## wuwhere

I'm listening on the D10 as a DAC/Pre-amp through its line out. Its sounds really good feeding my Pico or Tomahawk.


----------



## madwolf

Rolling Opamps does not affect the line out. 
 You could easily confirm this by taking out the 3 OP AMP and still use the line out. 

 If anyone is going to change the Resistor, it does not matter what wattage, it just have to be 4.7K ohm. The original I think is 0603 or 0804. 

 I wounder if my set is still under warranty, It is less than 5 days old. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway since I have to use the Soldering iron, I have made a hasty first round mod. Will post more picture and modding details later. 

 OT a bit here. 
 Any fans of Tour de France over here, ibasso sound like the name of a great cyclist a couple of years back. Ivan Basso came in second to Armstrong in 2005.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone knows if rolling opamps affect the D10's line out too?_


----------



## jamato8

Didn't Basso get hit for drug use? I used to have all the Tour De France yearly books. I used to ride in Southern Calif with a number of national champions. Great stuff, 40 to 70 miles every day. 

 So what are any mods on the D10 besides the caps? Mine with the Black Gates has taken on a very nice open transparency and ranks up there with my best portables. I am waiting for the latest buffer from HiFlight.


----------



## jamato8

double post.


----------



## bakhtiar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think he's talking about the OEM project. I'm not sure if the *D10+* is on the drawing board or not...guess I'll have to find out!_

 

IMO, the *D10-* will be appropriate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





... the D10 - AMP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. or, named it as *D9+*


----------



## wuwhere

You can roll opamps all day long but if you desolder/solder, your warranty is over.
 Solely my interpretation.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, the *D10-* will be appropriate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... the D10 - AMP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. or, named it as *D9+*_

 

D10-/D9+ is already in the D10.


----------



## wuwhere

madwolf, same tolerance, right? It doesn't have to be Vishay too? Thanks.


----------



## madwolf

If you are really worried (or purist) just change both the resistor 4.7K and 47K to same brand, same part, same batch. 
 But I feel it is unnecessary. The tolerance is not really important, 4.7 and 47K is 10X difference and few have notice the difference what is a few %.

 It is not Vishay, The Vishay is on another part of the board. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_madwolf, same tolerance, right? It doesn't have to be Vishay too? Thanks._


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are really worried (or purist) just change both the resistor 4.7K and 47K to same brand, same part, same batch. 
 But I feel it is unnecessary. The tolerance is not really important, 4.7 and 47K is 10X difference and few have notice the difference what is a few %.

 It is not Vishay, The Vishay is on another part of the board._

 

You read my mind cause that is exactly what I was planning to do. Thanks.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Didn't Basso get hit for drug use? I used to have all the Tour De France yearly books. I used to ride in Southern Calif with a number of national champions. Great stuff, 40 to 70 miles every day. 

 So what are any mods on the D10 besides the caps? Mine with the Black Gates has taken on a very nice open transparency and ranks up there with my best portables. I am waiting for the latest buffer from HiFlight._

 

Funny. I'm watching the TDF while checking the threads. Santa Rosa? How bummed are we that Levi had to drop. Sad about George yesterday too. Not classy at all Garmin.

 OK, back to our normal thread...


----------



## madwolf

Yes It took me many hours to setup my soldering workstation at home and I miss what could be the most exciting stage at TDF this year. A well deserve win by A Contador. Must have been very exciting to watch. 

 Another use of ibasso D10 
Using iBasso D10 as a Signal Generator I discovered it by accident but I do not think I would have a need for this in the near future, But would be great if I have this 10 -15 years back.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!! You need to warn us of the spoiler!


----------



## madwolf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You read my mind cause that is exactly what I was planning to do. Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I really hate this mind trick, Here I am telling you that any 4.7K will do, But at the very back on my mind I am very sure I will get 2 same brand, same model same batch resistor, the very next time I mod this amplifier. 

 Sorry for breaking the news early. The race is over 12 hours and the news are all around the web.


----------



## fuseboxx

I've finally done my first round of opamp rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The D10 is still working fine, and there is no sign of smoke, so I suppose I did this thing correctly. Haha.

 I changed the stock setup to the AD8656 /w bypassed buffers combination and currently doing my first round of listening.

 Everything went relatively smoothly, I'd say:

 * I removed the screws with no trouble.

 * Although I expected it to slide more smoothly, I slid the D10 out of the case even though it seemed there was slight resistance and some scraping sound.

 * After exposing it enough to see all three opamps, I removed the ADA4841-2YRZ from the main socket and put in the AD8656 with relative ease, making sure that the orientation is correct by taking notice of the square at the corner of the opamp board.

 * Taking out and putting in the buffers were trickier though because the space to take them out and put them in was more crowded that the main socket, but I guess I still managed successfully.

 * After than I slid the D10 back into the case, noticing the same scraping sound and slight resistance.

 * Then I put back the screws although I think I skewed the plates a bit since my D10 is wobbling a bit on my desk now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't listened enough to give a solid impression yet, although I will note that I was amused that even the "power down sound" has changed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I used to notice this sound before: If I had my headphones on when I'd turn off the D10, I'd hear this sound like air being released from a vaccum. Now that I changed opamp configuration, it sounds more like a laser shutting off. Hah.

 Anyway, I'll post impressions eventually.

 Does iBasso sell other opamps for the D10?


----------



## bakhtiar

To keep my IEMs from over current during power up/down, I always plug in my IEMs, AFTER several seconds the amp being switch on. I pull out the IEM's plug, BEFORE switch off.

 AD8650/bypass buffer, also a good choice. Very little noise and quite immune to GSM RF.


----------



## fuseboxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To keep my IEMs from *over current* during power up/down, I always plug in my IEMs, AFTER several seconds the amp being switch on. I pull out the IEM's plug, BEFORE switch off._

 

Oh is that what I refer to as the "power down sound"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry, I had no idea. Can it cause harm to either the D10 or my headphones in the long run?

 On that note, I also noticed that if I had my headphones on already, it takes a few seconds after turning on the D10 for the sound to come through.


----------



## bakhtiar

I don't know what harm it will do in long run, but prevention is better than cure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ryuzoh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think this is not wrong.

 Actually, gain setting transistors are Q9 and Q11.
 The Q14 and Q15 are watching signals from input jack and switching functions.
 That is depending on signal revel in input jack.

 It realizes automatically switching between Aux in or output from DAC on input jack.

 -----------------added------------------
 IMO, gain setting in D10 is utterly ineffective......very, very, slightly but not unbalanced between L and R._

 

Thanks for looking inside and your comment!!!
 Appreciate your OEM activities, too!!

 Would it be too time consuming
 to ask for some tips in modding the D10?

 Well, i understand ordering an OEM project amp would be prefered.


----------



## madwolf

Yes your ears are very sensitive, 

 The problem resistor happened to affect the right side of the Amplifier and causes the gain to be less than the left. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could this explain why the gain switch on high increases the volume in my left ear slightly more than the right? I use it all the time in low gain, so it isn't much of an issue for me but I'd like to have that fixed. (PS - tested by leaving one earpiece out of one ear, and flipping the gain from lo to hi, and then trying the other ear)_


----------



## DonJuan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've finally done my first round of opamp rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The D10 is still working fine, and there is no sign of smoke, so I suppose I did this thing correctly. Haha.

 I changed the stock setup to the AD8656 /w bypassed buffers combination and currently doing my first round of listening.

 Everything went relatively smoothly, I'd say:

 * I removed the screws with no trouble.

 * Although I expected it to slide more smoothly, I slid the D10 out of the case even though it seemed there was slight resistance and some scraping sound.

 * After exposing it enough to see all three opamps, I removed the ADA4841-2YRZ from the main socket and put in the AD8656 with relative ease, making sure that the orientation is correct by taking notice of the square at the corner of the opamp board.

 * Taking out and putting in the buffers were trickier though because the space to take them out and put them in was more crowded that the main socket, but I guess I still managed successfully.

 * After than I slid the D10 back into the case, noticing the same scraping sound and slight resistance.

 * Then I put back the screws although I think I skewed the plates a bit since my D10 is wobbling a bit on my desk now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't listened enough to give a solid impression yet, although I will note that I was amused that even the "power down sound" has changed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I used to notice this sound before: If I had my headphones on when I'd turn off the D10, I'd hear this sound like air being released from a vaccum. Now that I changed opamp configuration, it sounds more like a laser shutting off. Hah.

 Anyway, I'll post impressions eventually.

 Does iBasso sell other opamps for the D10? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I find it easier to take out all the opamps before putting any back in, so try that (unless I misread your comment and you did that)

 Also, yes iBasso does sell some opamps: LTC6241HV, AD8616, LMH6643 were all available to me at very, very affordable prices. I don't think I'm supposed to mention prices, but I'll just say that you will be pleasantly surprised.

 Of course, you have to factor in shipping. I don't think it's worth it unless you buy the opamps at the time you also purchase one of their main products.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

I was thinking of putting up my UHA3 after getting this D10. After about 48+ hours of burn in, it's starting to open up with a bigger soundstage. Today, I wouldn't say it's a huge diff over the UHA3 but I'm optimistic.

 That is until I started to listen to it in it's most used configuration, my work desk in the cube farm. I use my UHA3 as my USB DAC w/ my IEMs. My iPhone is on my desk, and my coworkers have their phones nearby. The GSM buzz is beyond belief on the D10, so LOUD. I compared it against the UHA3 by forcing data connections. The UHA3 is dead quiet. Sadly this could be a deal killer for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know there are some mentions of OPAMPs that reduce the buzz. Does anyone know if any of the included OPAMPs reduce the buzz? I can't imagine spending more money for a Topkit just to eliminate the buzz. [My ICs are at home btw.]

 I'd hate to give this thing up, love the upgradeability. But I can't justify more cost to make the buzz on par w/ my current UHA. I know the SQ wouldn't be the same but I do have the Hornet I received last week to make up for that.


----------



## vkvedam

Is D10 good for monitoring applications? How neutral is D10?

 Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## vkvedam

Sorry, double post.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes your ears are very sensitive, 

 The problem resistor happened to affect the right side of the Amplifier and causes the gain to be less than the left._

 

I guess I should get my ears insured by Lloyds of London then.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess I should get my ears insured by Lloyds of London then._

 

Stay away from AIG.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldskoolboarder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know there are some mentions of OPAMPs that reduce the buzz. Does anyone know if any of the included OPAMPs reduce the buzz? I can't imagine spending more money for a Topkit just to eliminate the buzz. [My ICs are at home btw.]
_

 

Every combo I've tried different than than the stock opamp seems to exhibit little to no RFI buzz. I think just a few pages back someone mentions the AD8656 with the bypassed buffers as being a big improvement in this area.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Thanks Wolfen. I played some more at work and in some positions, the UHA3 will have noise, but it's WAY less than the D10 now. Looks like it's time to crack it open and swap OPAMPs. If I can get it on par w/ the UHA, I"ll keep it.

 Keeping my fingers crossed.

 On the road, I'll be using a short (3") LOD so it's hard to separate my source and amp.


----------



## Kobra

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess I should get my ears insured by Lloyds of London then._

 

What I'm about to say is completely of topic, but I can't help myself as I work in the insurance business 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Society of Lloyds is not an insurance company but a "market place" or a society of companies (syndicates) that shares risk on behalf of a third party. Insurance company ABC wants to underwrite a risk, instead of taking the risk by itself they purchase cooperation from a larger group of insurer... a bit technical but rather interesting if you like this kind of stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, what this means is that you would only be able to (indirectly) insure your delicate ears at Lloyds (but not by Lloyds) if you bought a insurance from your local insurer who in turn re-insures his risk (your ears) by advertising it at the Lloyds marketplace 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now, I'd better run and hide before you lot beat me with a stick


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Oh my. Insurance-fi.


----------



## madwolf

I wounder what the insurance premium loading for someone who constantly puts a high sensitivity IEM into the ear, and not to forget, Ear Impression. 

 This is a photo of my first mod 





 A and C are place in parallel to signal bypass caps.
 B and D are power supply decoupling caps. 

 The choice of component is not what I have hoped for, but space is really a premium here. And I have to make do with what spares I have lying at home.


----------



## fuseboxx

Another thing about opamps: Can I just order anywhere and they'll come packaged in the same way iBasso provides them? Or would I have to do some soldering/other stuff before I'm able to use other opamps with the D10?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DonJuan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find it easier to take out all the opamps before putting any back in, so try that (unless I misread your comment and you did that)_

 

Nah, you read correctly. I took out the main and then put in the replacement immediately 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll try your suggestion next time. thanks.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DonJuan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, yes iBasso does sell some opamps: LTC6241HV, AD8616, LMH6643 were all available to me at very, very affordable prices. I don't think I'm supposed to mention prices, but I'll just say that you will be pleasantly surprised._

 

Great! I'll read up on these.


----------



## wuwhere

madwolf, are you adding more capacitance?


----------



## madwolf

Objective is NOT to add capacitance. 

 For the signal bypass capacitors I place solid cap (better high frequency response) to compensate the shortfall for electrolytic. 

 For the capacitors at the OP-AMP it is to ensure stable power supply. For this to be effective it have to be as close to the IC as possible.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Objective is NOT to add capacitance. 

 For the signal bypass capacitors I place solid cap (better high frequency response) to compensate the shortfall for electrolytic. 

 For the capacitors at the OP-AMP it is to ensure stable power supply. For this to be effective it have to be as close to the IC as possible._

 

Thanks! Highly anticipating how it sounds.


----------



## sbulack

I've got another set of Topkit results to report, for OPA350(CA), EL8201's with SE530.

 Without music playing, this Topkit is dead quiet - NO background sounds at all - at any pot setting.

 I find this Topkit to be too bright with the SE530. I LIKE the sound with the SE530. The brightness is lovely. It's just too fatiguing to my ear for me to use this combination for more than about half an hour with the SE530. It's a Good half hour, though. The tonality of the D10 with this Topkit and the SE530 is really gorgeous. For real, looking for a Topkit with staying power at work with the D10 and SE530 (and really fine audio quality), the AD744 (OBCA) / EL8201's is, so far, the Topkit to beat. For me and my D10, the low-level sound of this Topkit (AD744/...) slowly exhaling is just not at all an impediment to my listening enjoyment.

 Switching back to using the Yuin PK1 with the D10 with today's Topkit installed, I think that this is going to be my Topkit winner at work. From deep, solid (and transparent) bass through the tonally gorgeous, fluid and realistically lifelike mids and up through the exquisitely lovely (and spritely, but never fatiguing) highs, this Topkit in the D10 with the PK1 is my cuppa tea - and I intend to just keep sipping, and sipping, and sipping (with lotsa savoring) .........

 I guess, that is, until HiFlight comes up with his next set of improved Topkits.

 Next up ..... the non-CA version of this Topkit - the OPA2350 with both AD8616 and EL8201 buffers - with Yuin PK1 and SE530.


----------



## fuseboxx

i feel like a total n00b for asking this, but what's a topkit, what's it for and where do i get one?


----------



## madwolf

It would probability be wrong for me to post impression as the mod was done before the AMP is fully burned in. Maybe If someone else from Singapore would like to do an AB comparison, we could post the impression together. 

 But this is what I could demo, 
 The benefit of reducing RF interference, Please note that I am still using the original Op-AMP. The buffer amp AD8532 have a very low tolerance to noise, from the datasheet the CMRR 47db is and the PSRR is 55db. I could not believe it is so low. I think I have reduced the RF to inaudible level 

 I have a video demo. 
YouTube - ibasso D10 modded result on digital section


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! Highly anticipating how it sounds._


----------



## chaospanda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i feel like a total n00b for asking this, but what's a topkit, what's it for and where do i get one? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

topkit is a set of opamp and buffer that works really well with the d10. You can get it from HiFlight.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i feel like a total n00b for asking this, but what's a topkit, what's it for and where do i get one? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

A Topkit is a set of chips (a full Topkit would be a Left/Right Channel dual opamp or pair of single channel opamps mounted on a 2:1 adapter, plus a pair of buffer chips). The purpose of it is to install the chips into sockets inside the D10 to change the sound which comes through the amp - hopefully to suit that sound best to your phones and ears. For someone skilled and tooled in soldering (mostly surface-mount) chips onto 8-legged adapters (so that the chips may be installed into 8-holed sockets), the chips themselves may be purchased from DigiKey, among other vendors. For those of us not so skilled and tooled, HiFlight has been most gracious to prepare the chips (mounting them onto suitable adapters, and biasing their operation, such as into Class A) and to offer them for a generously low cost-of-materials-and-shipping so as to get the impressions of others as to how the different kits of chips affect the sound through the D10. PM HiFlight with your interest in obtaining a particular Topkit (based on liking what you've read about it), and he'll step you through the process until you're holding the D10 in your hand with the Topkit chips that you've installed in it, and posting your own listening impressions of how the kit has changed the sound coming through your D10. It's fun and rewarding, as it allows us to tune the sound from our D10's to best suit our own listening equipment and tastes.


----------



## fuseboxx

Thanks sbulack & chaospanda! I've sent HiFlight a PM already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I guess that answers my question whether or not I can use any opamp ordered from any seller for the D10. It turns out, I can't since I have to mount it onto an 8-legged adaptor first. I just don't know what "biasing their operation" means 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hehe.

 I guess I'll stick with this AD8656 /w bypassed buffers first... although I'm really itching to try what difference using the stock buffers will make instead.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It would probability be wrong for me to post impression as the mod was done before the AMP is fully burned in. Maybe If someone else from Singapore would like to do an AB comparison, we could post the impression together. 

 But this is what I could demo, 
 The benefit of reducing RF interference, Please note that I am still using the original Op-AMP. The buffer amp AD8532 have a very low tolerance to noise, from the datasheet the CMRR 47db is and the PSRR is 55db. I could not believe it is so low. I think I have reduced the RF to inaudible level 

 I have a video demo. 
YouTube - ibasso D10 modded result on digital section_

 

What exactly did you modify?


----------



## bakhtiar

I rolled the op-amp setup as AD8656/bypass. Less sparkle than ADA4841-2/AD8656, but also less sensitive to GSM RF. I tested with my Nokia 3120c, and I heard the RF noise if the phone was LESS than 50 cm away from the D10. Previously, it was like a GSM radio, which picking up GSM RF from 2-3 meters radius.

 Wait,.. .. this setup's sound, very similar to my Sony NWZ-X1060F sound signature, but with much more details/resolution and solid bass. (Songs: Low (Flo-rida), Ponciana (Lura)).


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Success! I also did the 8656/bypass. This gave me no noticeable RFI from my iPhone. I'll take it in to work tomorrow and see how it goes. Still sounds great.

 BTW, why don't they give you rubber feet w/ this thing? I got my own at the hardware store but the bottom of the case is just aching to scratch and be scratched.


----------



## fuseboxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I rolled the op-amp setup as AD8656/bypass. Less sparkle than ADA4841-2/AD8656..._

 

Currently using the AD8656/bypass and I find it interesting that the ADA4841-2/AD8656 has more sparkle.

 Interesting because my setup (which was a bit on the fat, thick and bassy side with the stock setup of the D10) might benefit from more brightness and sparkle.

 But b/w the two setups, what is the difference in soundstage with regards to how spacious the sound is? Also, is there any difference in power? Meaning, would I have to turn the gain knob of the D10 higher or lower with a certain setup to get the same volume?

 One last thing though: Not that I'm questioning your impressions, but I was thinking that the AD8656/bypass should have more sparkle since I've read that that effect comes from the AD8656 opamp. So when you move the AD8656 to the buffers with the other setup, I would imagine that there should be less brightness and sparkle. Just hypothesizing here


----------



## bakhtiar

BTW, I am using UM3Xs, which the treble is 85-90% of my bright PFEs. Actually, the ADA4841-2 opamp is the one which reproduce the sound signature. IMO, AD8656 is much flatter. Since I don't have the PFEs to try the AD8656/bypass right now, I will tried the combo when I got it back.

 Now, trying the AD8352/AD8656. I love this combo. More sparkle, bigger soundstage and punchier bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Almost similar to ADA4841-2/AD8656, with tiny little less sparkle, but with VERY big GSM RF isolation. improvement. But, with USB, I can hear noise 'wind' when I maxed the volume. It's quite if I disconnect from my laptop. Yes, the UM3Xs are VERY sensitive.

 I recommend this combo, the AD8352/AD8656 if you like/love the stock sound, and plus the much less sensitive to GSM RF.

 Tested with these songs.
 Anime sound tracks., InitialD: Dogfight, Noizy Tribe, Blast My Desire (MOVE)
 LOW (Flo-rida), Boom Boom Pow (The Black Eye Peas)
 Ponciana (Lura).
 Chesky's Demo tracks


----------



## theory_87

AD8066 with EL8201 as buffer sound very nice to my ears. Lush mid, good solid bass and nice depth


----------



## bakhtiar

BTW, the combos that I tried are what I got with the D10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OT
*theory_87*
 Can you describe the UM3X + UM56 + D10 vs ACS-T1 + D10, please ?


----------



## qusp

OPA2350 with AD8616 is my favourite with UM3X, running non-biased topkit the rest of the time. soundstage of OPA2350 is quite large and bass is superb


----------



## jamato8

I got the new buffers from HiFlight that are the recommended ones now. Get them, period. I find more of everything and with the JH13's, the amp, which was already very fine is even finer now and really sounds different in a totally all good way.


----------



## qusp

are these biased buffers??


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_are these biased buffers??_

 

No, standard bias.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, the combos that I tried are what I got with the D10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 OT
*theory_87*
 Can you describe the UM3X + UM56 + D10 vs ACS-T1 + D10, please ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So basically, you are asking on the different between T1 and um3x?

 I find both are hissy using d10 regardless of the opamp I used. um3x sound heavy in bass in comparison to my T1. In fact, it too much for me so I mainly run um3x with my Rio Karma or Sansa Clip where they sound magical. I didn't really compare the phones as I like both. 

 T1 had the kind of tubey sound sig that I have yet to find it any IEM be it universal or custom (Yes. Custom. I had quite a universal ear so 99% of the IEM I have tried fit right in and seal well). It had a thick and cloudy mid and had a relatively huge soundstage for IEM (I have yet to try of JH10 and ES3x but it sound bigger than UE10/11pro and more depth)

 um3x give you the kind of feeling where music just sound balance in all spectrum. IMO, while it one of the best universal iem, it doesn't match up with ue10pro, UM Aero (It does trump livewire 2 by a huge margin IMO).

 I have given a lot less attention to IEM now a days as I'm driving and moving on to home rig


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I rolled the op-amp setup as AD8656/bypass. Less sparkle than ADA4841-2/AD8656, but also less sensitive to GSM RF. I tested with my Nokia 3120c, and I heard the RF noise if the phone was LESS than 50 cm away from the D10. Previously, it was like a GSM radio, which picking up GSM RF from 2-3 meters radius.

 Wait,.. .. this setup's sound, very similar to my Sony NWZ-X1060F sound signature, but with much more details/resolution and solid bass. (Songs: Low (Flo-rida), Ponciana (Lura))._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldskoolboarder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Success! I also did the 8656/bypass. This gave me no noticeable RFI from my iPhone. I'll take it in to work tomorrow and see how it goes. Still sounds great.

 BTW, why don't they give you rubber feet w/ this thing? I got my own at the hardware store but the bottom of the case is just aching to scratch and be scratched._

 

I mentioned previously that this cut the RFI, but it's nice to have it confirmed. Nice.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

At work, I notice 'some' RFI, it's not completely gone. But it's no where near the stock opamp config. I'm going to let this burn in a while before I decide if I want to go with a Topkit. 

 Anyone use a Topkit w/ a warm, tubey sound (or something close to an RSA) along with good RFI isolation?


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mentioned previously that this cut the RFI, but it's nice to have it confirmed. Nice._

 

Independent (or at least non-author) confirmation - it's a beautiful thing.

 BTW, what station does DJ Yoda (in your avatar), with the cool retro-looking headphones, broadcast from? I'd like to tune in to his show for a listen (probably a webcast or podcast).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Independent (or at least non-author) confirmation - it's a beautiful thing.

 BTW, what station does DJ Yoda (in your avatar), with the cool retro-looking headphones, broadcast from? I'd like to tune in to his show for a listen (probably a webcast or podcast)._

 

He's just my own personal DJ...


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the new buffers from HiFlight that are the recommended ones now. Get them, period. I find more of everything and with the JH13's, the amp, which was already very fine is even finer now and really sounds different in a totally all good way._

 

Just to confirm....which opamp/buffer number(s) is this combo?


----------



## ABathingApe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to confirm....which opamp/buffer number(s) is this combo?_

 

x2 I'd like to know this as well. Cheers


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To keep my IEMs from over current during power up/down, I always plug in my IEMs, AFTER several seconds the amp being switch on. I pull out the IEM's plug, BEFORE switch off.
_

 

Hmmm...interesting, when I got my Mini Max from Whiplash, Craig said to never pull out my headphones while the power is running through the circuitry.

 Bakhtiar, what have your experiences been like when you didn't follow your rules?


----------



## fuseboxx

...itching to try the AD744/EL8201 setup...


----------



## bakhtiar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm...interesting, when I got my Mini Max from Whiplash, Craig said to never pull out my headphones while the power is running through the circuitry.

 Bakhtiar, what have your experiences been like when you didn't follow your rules?_

 

Ok, I will turn down the volume to minimum first, before pulling out the headphone. 

 Question. Any scientific explanation why we cannot pull out the headphone while the amp is running?


----------



## Xerion

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some Bad news for current D10 owners. 
 Someone at the D10 team made a mistake and a wrong part made it way to the board. 

 The part in question is R134. The part that was soldered on was 47K ohm (marking 473) Resistor. The correct part should be 4.7K ohm. 

 (...pic)

 This resistor should be the same value as R136 shown on the picture. 
 The one with marking 472 

 What is the resistor role and What does it affect ?
 The resistor bias the transistor beside it and the transistor is on when you switch the gain to HIGH (Switch up). The transistor pull an additional resistor to ground. Thereby increasing the gain of the AMP. 
 As one is used for the left and one for the right you would want both R134 and R136 to the of the same value.
 The circuit run with the Vishay (most expensive) resistor on the board to set the gain. 

 How the good news 
 It does not affect the sound in any way when the amp is set to low gain. 
 Cause at this mode the transistor is off. 


 Why I think it should be 4.7K and not 47K ? 
 As long as the transistor is ON with the same strength it should not matter. 
 But if I where to use the gain switch to switch the gain from 2 to 3. I would want it as hard on as possible. 

 Sorry for breaking your Heart. I paid SGD400++ for this as well._

 

I ordered a D10 a few days ago, and got it today. I checked these resistors and both R134 and R136 have a marking of 472 on my board.


----------



## x3sphere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To keep my IEMs from over current during power up/down, I always plug in my IEMs, AFTER several seconds the amp being switch on. I pull out the IEM's plug, BEFORE switch off.

 AD8650/bypass buffer, also a good choice. Very little noise and quite immune to GSM RF._

 

I'm not so sure this is a good idea. Yes the pop/crackle noise is annoying but I don't think it poses any harm to the headphones. Plugging in headphones once the amp has already been turned on could cause a short. Unlikely, but it could happen.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xerion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered a D10 a few days ago, and got it today. I checked these resistors and both R134 and R136 have a marking of 472 on my board._

 

Thank you for the effort to both make and post that observation.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

just got my D10. i have a question though, does it not support 96KHz? whenever i set it anything above 48KHz nothing will come out. or is it a problem with my sound card? i tried both usb and optical so far and optical definitely sounds smoother. 

 i really like the sound of it so far, sounds super good with the SR325i's and its not even burned in yet. can't imagine how much better it will sound when i roll with different opamps. which opamps do you guys recommend with grados?


----------



## SemiAudiophile

.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SemiAudiophile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got my D10. ...
 i really like the sound of it so far, sounds super good with the SR325i's and its not even burned in yet. can't imagine how much better it will sound when i roll with different opamps. which opamps do you guys recommend with grados?_

 

I can offer a link to a post describing the best-sounding to me I've found so far, for my Grados:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/i...ml#post5864822

 Although, I did not describe, in that post, how those opamps sound in the D10 with Grados. But, so far, the OPA350(CA)/EL8201 buffers is the best-suited to bringing out the best from my Grados.


----------



## bakhtiar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SemiAudiophile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got my D10. i have a question though, does it not support 96KHz? whenever i set it anything above 48KHz nothing will come out. or is it a problem with my sound card? i tried both usb and optical so far and optical definitely sounds smoother. _

 


 IME, D10 only support up to 48/16 via USB, and up to 96/24 via optical. Not tried the upper limit for coax/rca yet. 

 I only have a 96/24 wav samples, and no problem streaming it to D10 via optical. I also tried upsample any audio files to 192kb/s and 176.4kb/s through optical, and I heard static noises 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

thanks for the info guys. i just plugged in my RS1i into the D10 and i find that it has pretty incredible synergy. very spacious soundstage, nice texture, and incredible detail. i can't believe the sound that's coming out of this thing; it's a little beast. one of the best i heard with RS1i's, honestly. it's giving me goosebumps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i had another question though, what exactly do the buffers do? and why would you want to bypass them? i'm still trying to read through this extremely long thread.


----------



## kaushama

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IME, D10 only support up to 48/16 via USB, and up to 96/24 via optical. Not tried the upper limit for coax/rca yet. 

 I only have a 96/24 wav samples, and no problem streaming it to D10 via optical. I also tried upsample any audio files to 192kb/s and 176.4kb/s through optical, and I heard static noises 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

I am waiting mine to arrive. I was going to use it with my Studio 1555 laptop. I was thinking of implementing only USB. 

 I have few questions. your opinions? Larry, Ron and John? (-:

 1. D10 has better SQ with USB vs optical? Even when playing 16/44.1 CD quality files?

 2. USB vs Optical for bit perfect streaimng? I think there should not be any difference in SQ!

USB vs Optical

 3. I sometimes play 24/96 files too. I was thinking of M-Audio transit as the USB>Optical interface. Any better perhaps cheaper options?

 4. Short and thin optical cable to hook transit to D10. Any recommendations?


----------



## bakhtiar

IME, I found the sound is cleaner and deeper via optical and when the D10 is on battery only. When it connected to USB, I can hear the noise floor with UM3Xs using my current opamp setup or the stock setup. which contribute to the less remarkable sound, than the optical. YMMV

 Yes, at first I thought USB and optical should be the same, but, because of the mentioned reason, I am agree that optical much is better. But, the USB still sound awesome. 

 Optical cable choice? I am using cheap, USD 5 toslink cable and the one which comes with the D10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Thank you.


----------



## kaushama

Just bought M-Audio Transit! I will do comparisons when they are here.


----------



## kaushama

Cancelled M-Audio order and bought Cryoparts PCLINK II. I think it is much better.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kaushama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cancelled M-Audio order and bought Cryoparts PCLINK II. I think it is much better._

 

The PCLINK II looks like a very nice piece of equipment. 
 Nice find!
 The D10 really shines with optical input. 

 I have yet to hear any audible difference between optical cables. Maybe others have better ears than I. 

 All else being equal, optical input should always sound better than USB input, as there is less silicon in the pathway.


----------



## chaospanda

What is the benefit of the PC LINK II?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chaospanda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the benefit of the PC LINK II?_

 

CryoParts Pop Pulse USB to SPDIF Converter


----------



## bakhtiar

From the pc link II specs, it only support up to 48/24 via USB.The chipset for usb audio is CM108 which is the same chip being used in Nuforce Icon Mobile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 How about this...
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/mu...-spdif-423960/


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kaushama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cancelled M-Audio order and bought Cryoparts PCLINK II. I think it is much better._

 

What make you think that it'd be better?


----------



## fuseboxx

What makes a bigger improvement with the sound in your opinion guys: Changing the caps, or rolling the op amps?


----------



## bakhtiar

IMHO, 
 op amps rolling => Different sound signature and soundstage
 Changing caps => Better SNR.

 I might be wrong... TQ.


----------



## kaushama

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What make you think that it'd be better?_

 

There were couple of reviews regarding Transit blaming it for very bad jitter.

 Best options for USB>optical seems to be,

 1. off-ramp-converter

 2. UD-10.1 USB Audio Converter 

 3. The USB Thingee

 4. CryoParts Pop Pulse USB to SPDIF Converter


----------



## kaushama

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From the pc link II specs, it only support up to 48/24 via USB.The chipset for usb audio is CM108 which is the same chip being used in Nuforce Icon Mobile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 How about this...
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/mu...-spdif-423960/_

 

I do not think USB interface can support 24/196 input signal. Unless you upsample it in the device and then output.


----------



## kaushama

Musiland Monitor seems to be very good too. I am just about to buy it and compare PCLINK 11 and musiland. I liked Musiland D10 very much and modded it too previously.


----------



## fuseboxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMHO, 
 op amps rolling => Different sound signature and soundstage
 Changing caps => Better SNR._

 

Thanks! If this is the case, I think I'll just stick with op amp rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hehe.


----------



## raymondu999

Hey all. Just asking. Is the "iQube clone" D10 setup (AD8599 LR/AD8656 buffers) really sound VERY close to it, almost an exactly same sound?


----------



## raymondu999

is there a list somewhere of people's fave combos? I can find the "iqube clone" (AD8599 LR/AD8656 buffers) Pico DAC + Mustang (AD743/AD8616) but not much else in terms of people's favorite combos?


----------



## nickyboyo

I would very much like to know the combination for a mustang clone on the P3+. Any ideas Ron or Jam?


----------



## madwolf

With some pointers from HiFlight I tried Dr Xin Feng's Mod (I realize that he have endless production delay problem, and still many are ordering from him)

 I used the 1979's design NE5534. 

 Amplifier operating in Class A mode with output transistor bypass. 






 Unfortunately, I am unable to fit this in the casing as it is to big.
 You could not even write off an 1979 design. 
 Initial impression is smoother and cleaner that the 4841-2. 
 But it is the first OP-AMP that I rolled.


----------



## jamato8

The very early 5534's are the best. The later ones just do not sound the same and do not have the quality sound. I have some very early ones and use these if I am going to use the 5534.


----------



## wolfen68

Hey Jamato...some pages back a couple of inquiring minds wanted to know which (newer) opamp/buffer combo you were commenting on as being a real step up from your previous combos. C'mon...you're keeping us in suspense.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Jamato...some pages back a couple of inquiring minds wanted to know which (newer) opamp/buffer combo you were commenting on as being a real step up from your previous combos. C'mon...you're keeping us in suspense._

 

x2

 Also if anyone has a tube-like combo for use w/ 325i's, I'd be most grateful. I may try my hand at soldering my own Brown Dog adapters, assuming I can find a good soldering station at work. Our Metcals are reserved only for the techs.


----------



## jamato8

I am using the newer buffer that HiFlight offers but I need to work on the opamp because after further listening I am not getting the deep bass I should be getting. I have deeper bass on both the P3+ and Shadow so I need to rework the buffer/opamp combination.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

I just got mini TOSLINK adapter from ebay for my Macbook.

 I do have to say that optical is slightly better than USB. I don't know exactly how to describe it, since it's a bit subtle but noticeable to me. Seems a bit more airy and warm vs USB, for me the highs aren't as brash.


----------



## kaushama

My D10 is here. I swapped stock opamps to OPA2350 + EL8201. It gives too much bass with my W3 and very high gain. Volume is too loud even I increase volume by a little factor.
 I am just listening with AD8656 with bypassed buffers. Sound good. Stock opamps are also good.


----------



## kaushama

And USB gives some white noise and add to noise floor. I am sure optical input is the way to go.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kaushama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My D10 is here. I swapped stock opamps to OPA2350 + EL8201. It gives too much bass with my W3 and very high gain. Volume is too loud even I volume a little up up to 2.
 I am just listening with AD8656 with bypassed buffers. Sound good. Stock opamps are also good._

 

I like the 8656 with bypassed buffers. The stock is also very good as you note.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kaushama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ...
 Best options for USB>optical seems to be,
 1. off-ramp-converter
 2. UD-10.1 USB Audio Converter
 3. The USB Thingee
 4. CryoParts Pop Pulse USB to SPDIF Converter_

 

Many thanks, kaushama, for sharing the results of your search with us.

 I took a look at the listings above, and the CryoParts Pop Pulse USB to SPDIF Converter seems to best provide what will fill in a "hole" in my rigs that I'm looking most to fill in (for right about my target budget), so I just placed an order for one.

 I've got a 20 foot POF Toslink cable from Blue Jeans Cable, and a very nice, small and great-sounding optical digital DAC from AOS (his Picollo DAC, back while he was making and selling them in 2004), in addition to the D10 (but that's mainly for use at work). I've been looking for a convenient, good enough quality, optical digital interface for it from my collection of digital music. With its USB-to-Toslink option, the CryoParts unit looks like it will fit right in.

 When it arrives, and I get a chance to hear what it can do, I'll let you know how it performs.


----------



## woof37

What do most people use for an affordable PC-compatible soundcard with an optical out?


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof07* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do most people use for an affordable PC-compatible soundcard with an optical out?_

 

I was really happy with a Terratec EWX 2496 that I bought for about $100 in 2004. When it recently gave out, I tried the Envy21 (Chaintek), $21, soundcard, then I purchased a EMU 1212. I could not figure out how to get the clipping out of the output with the Chaintek card. With the EMU, even with trimpots in its input stack, the level of more of my digital recordings than I'd like causes audible clipping in the output of the EMU 1212 - which I did not get from the Terratec. Most of the time, I'm quite happy with the sound quality from the EMU. The times when I'm not are more frequent than I'd prefer. I've already got multiple standalone optical digital DACs, so I'm trying the route of supplementing the PC soundcard with a USB-to-Toslink converter.

 I'm also interested in more replies to the question posed by woof07: What do you all use for an affordable (I, personally, call affordable for a soundcard $150 or less) PC-compatible soundcard with an optical digital output that you're happy with? If what you're using, with an optical digital out, that makes you happy is > $150.00, I'd be interested to know what it is as well.


----------



## qusp

^^ I think its likely you have something setup wrong in the 1212 mixer app in regard to your gain settings. it should not be clipping, likely you might have it set up with the +4db gain setting (one of the professional audio standards) on an input or an output and this is causing the mixer (not the card itself) to clip. for instance when using balanced XLR outputs, those channel strips are set-up with a -10db setting because a balanced source's output is much hotter than a regular single ended signal, if yo have both SE and balanced sources all rigged up to your 1212 perhaps this is the problem. if set up to accept a 0db or +4db signal, but fed a hotter balanced signal that requires the channel to be set at -10db, the mixer will clip.
 myself I much prefer coax or BNC for digital input while at home, it allows a higher resolution on a much wider variety of gear; with my silver coax the sound is superb. 


 Anyone here have any experience with sending their D10 back in for warranty service/exchange?? the Lineout jack on mine has been playing up for a while now, but only intermittently, so I havent bothered sending it for the long journey back to base. but just yesterday I noticed the metal ring that surrounds each in/out had fallen out altogether. I can still use it via HP out, but I mostly use L/O and would like to do the BG mod. i'm not willing to send it in after the mod in case they have a problem with that. so yeah anyone have to do this and how long did it take for them to take care of it?? I would love if I can send it off today and receive it back by the time the sydney meet in mid august rolls around.


----------



## qusp

oops double post


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^ I think its likely you have something setup wrong in the 1212 mixer app in regard to your gain settings. it should not be clipping, likely you might have it set up with the +4db gain setting (one of the professional audio standards) on an input or an output and this is causing the mixer (not the card itself) to clip. 
 ..._

 

qusp, thanks very much for taking the time to consider my troubles and to send some helpful suggestions along! In my EMU mixer app, Session Settings -> I/O, Inputs and Outputs are set to -10 db. In fact, I'm using ASIO to get the music from my mp3/wav player (Winamp) to the EMU 1212m, and the +4/-10 settings (esp for the inputs) seem to apply to card inputs.

 However, that got me back into the EMU Mixer App, and I thought to put the Trim_Pot right at the top of the ASIO input strip (so that the signal gets attenuated by a little more than 6 db before it becomes visible on the strip), with a Peak Meter in the second slot so that I can see the effect of the attenuation. That works better for eliminating clipping than having a Peak Meter at the top of the strip, and a Trim_Pot second, for some reason. With the Trim_Pot first and the Peak Meter second, I'm getting better sound now with the same recordings which were getting distractingly clipped when I had the input strip inserts in the other order. Without the clipping, I really DO like the sound quality from the EMU 1212m. And, for the $120 - $150 it's selling for new these days (at GuitarCenter.com, anyway) it fits my definition of affordable as well.

 If you've got additional thoughts about what I might look at or try with my EMU 1212m setup (or just more things that it sounds like I would do well to learn more about and play with) please suggest them. I'll actually take those suggestions, experiment with those features and learn more about using this sound card I've purchased, to get the most from it.

 Thanks again for taking the time to consider my troubles and to offer the helpful suggestions.


----------



## rebski

qusp, my line out failed as well. iBasso turned the unit around in 2 days from receipt. The time lost was my airmail shipping to them. DHL got it back to me in a couple of days

 iBasso advise that they have a new supplier for the jacks so this should be the end of this particular issue. My DAC went too and they replaced all of the internals and gave me a new amp inside my old case.


----------



## Nuge

I like the D10 a lot with my Bob Marley and other music with my ATH-es7. However, I find it to be a bit too smooth for my rock music. Can you guys recommend to me any great portable dac/amp combos that are in the same price range as the D10 that have a slightly more aggressive sound signature?


----------



## jamato8

Just roll some different opamps. Try some 8397's.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just roll some different opamps. Try some 8397's._

 

I might also suggest trying AD8066 and OPA2350. Would probably try LMH6655 for buffers with them. With the AD8397 that John suggested, you can use dummy buffers, as that opamp has built-in buffers that can output a lot of current. Bypassing buffers usually does make the L-R opamps more assertive in sound. 

 While the LMH6655 is usually used as a buffer, it sounds very good in the D10 as the LR opamp, using bypassed buffers. 
 It may well give the desired punch.


----------



## Nuge

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just roll some different opamps. Try some 8397's._

 

Where can I buy opamps? Do you have a link to a place where I can buy them? Also, is there a guide to putting new opamps in the D10?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I might also suggest trying AD8066 and OPA2350. Would probably try LMH6655 for buffers with them. With the AD8397 that John suggested, you can use dummy buffers, as that opamp has built-in buffers that can output a lot of current. Bypassing buffers usually does make the L-R opamps more assertive in sound. 

 While the LMH6655 is usually used as a buffer, it sounds very good in the D10 as the LR opamp, using bypassed buffers. 
 It may well give the desired punch._

 

The OPA2350 did add some punch when I tried them, but I thought the AD8066 did the opposite and tamed the bass on the Senn IE8.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_qusp, thanks very much for taking the time to consider my troubles and to send some helpful suggestions along! In my EMU mixer app, Session Settings -> I/O, Inputs and Outputs are set to -10 db. In fact, I'm using ASIO to get the music from my mp3/wav player (Winamp) to the EMU 1212m, and the +4/-10 settings (esp for the inputs) seem to apply to card inputs._

 

ok; does this mean you are running optical to the emu from an iriver?? or are you running analogue from it?? sounds like you are using optical. is there any upsampling going on?? could be a mismatch of sample or bitrates. I had assumed you were using an analogue input thus my mention of the input db settings

  Quote:


 However, that got me back into the EMU Mixer App, and I thought to put the Trim_Pot right at the top of the ASIO input strip (so that the signal gets attenuated by a little more than 6 db before it becomes visible on the strip), with a Peak Meter in the second slot so that I can see the effect of the attenuation. That works better for eliminating clipping than having a Peak Meter at the top of the strip, and a Trim_Pot second, for some reason. With the Trim_Pot first and the Peak Meter second, I'm getting better sound now with the same recordings which were getting distractingly clipped when I had the input strip inserts in the other order. Without the clipping, I really DO like the sound quality from the EMU 1212m. And, for the $120 - $150 it's selling for new these days (at GuitarCenter.com, anyway) it fits my definition of affordable as well. 
 

yeah well i'm not all that familiar with the emu control panel/mixer. I was just going from what is usually standard functionality and it sounded like (and I still believe is) software clipping. but i'm afraid thats where my usefulness ends for the moment in regard to the emu. i'll think on it a little more. my RME works on a matrix editor for the mixer, so its a bit different to the tree type system of the EMU. I agree though that the EMU does represent very good value for those with more than one digital device feeding a dac with only one input simultaneously.

  Quote:


 If you've got additional thoughts about what I might look at or try with my EMU 1212m setup (or just more things that it sounds like I would do well to learn more about and play with) please suggest them. I'll actually take those suggestions, experiment with those features and learn more about using this sound card I've purchased, to get the most from it. 
 

you might want to check your sync settings and see that all channels are indeed set to the same clock/sample rate; as on-the-fly resampling could also cause distortion; although I would think it would be at any volume.

  Quote:


 Thanks again for taking the time to consider my troubles and to offer the helpful suggestions. 
 

no problem, if I think of anything else i'll pop in and let you know.


----------



## kaushama

How does LME49720 perform in L R?


----------



## madwolf

Just tried AD8599 and AD8022. 

 AD8599 Very clean and quiet. Like a performance in a Library. Good Sound stage

 AD8022 Lustrous, and smooth. but Small Sound stage.


----------



## madwolf

What happened when you ordered a wrong part? 
 Ordered an MSOP instead of a SOIC 






 Look at the difference in SIZE. A big strain on eyesight and soldering skill. 
 It is so small, there is not enough space to print the part number on the IC. 

 Anyway first impression of AD8676, Bright and Warm at the same time. Sound energetic but clean.


----------



## kaushama

Buffers used with them?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just tried AD8599 and AD8022. 

 AD8599 Very clean and quiet. Like a performance in a Library. Good Sound stage

 AD8022 Lustrous, and smooth. but Small Sound stage._


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What happened when you ordered a wrong part? 
 Ordered an MSOP instead of a SOIC 





 Look at the difference in SIZE. A big strain on eyesight and soldering skill. 
 It is so small, there is not enough space to print the part number on the IC. 

 Anyway first impression of AD8676, Bright and Warm at the same time. Sound energetic but clean._

 

That image reminds of when I was a kid. I had an ant farm with large black ants as my guests. Well I looked at it one morning and many little ants had invaded my ant farm. There were 4 to 5 little ants on each leg of the big ants holding them down so they couldn't move. It was amazing at to see but also stressful to see my friends being attacked.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kaushama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does LME49720 perform in L R?_

 

LME49720 or LME4562 does not work in D10. See page 30 of D10 thread for list of some opamps that work and some that don't, along with some good buffers.


----------



## HiFlight

Madwolf...
 If you can successfully solder an MSOP to an adapter, you should get a part-time job as a brain surgeon!!!!
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What happened when you ordered a wrong part? 
 Ordered an MSOP instead of a SOIC 





 Look at the difference in SIZE. A big strain on eyesight and soldering skill. 
 It is so small, there is not enough space to print the part number on the IC. 

 Anyway first impression of AD8676, Bright and Warm at the same time. Sound energetic but clean._


----------



## madwolf

For me all the LR are currently tested with AD8532. 
 Main aim is to test that the soldering is working fine. 
 I am preparing all my OP-AMP in the meantime. 

 If I am a brain surgeon, I wounder how many people will dare to patronize me.
 Maybe Frankenstein.


----------



## bakhtiar

How many op-amps do you have ?


----------



## madwolf

Currently I have 
 NE5534, NE5534 Class A bias, NE5534 OBCA, AD746, AD8599, AD8022, AD8676, LMH6655, LMH6672, OPA2134, OPA2228. Will have more very soon.


----------



## lxxl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rebski* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_qusp, my line out failed as well. iBasso turned the unit around in 2 days from receipt. The time lost was my airmail shipping to them. DHL got it back to me in a couple of days

 iBasso advise that they have a new supplier for the jacks so this should be the end of this particular issue. My DAC went too and they replaced all of the internals and gave me a new amp inside my old case._

 

Hello rebski,

 Does the new jacks look any different? if so can you show us a picture of it? I bought mine in June, I hope they replaced the new jacks then.


----------



## dnm

I've been lurking here for a while now, great thread! My D10 arrived on Monday and I have started the burn in. Few notes and questions: 

 - my D10 have a new type of spdif connector that does not require a stopper (if you want a picture, let me know), I was initially confused and e-mail ibasso, they kindly explained:

_We used a new type of optical jack, which has a strobe instead of the stopping plug. _

 - also I have noticed that my D10 has AD711 as default buffer not AD708 as I heard on this thread, I am not sure if there is a difference

 - I don't understand one thing: does D10 use the battery when connected as a USB DAC to a PC? I was using it connected to a PC most of the time and now my battery is low? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - ok, now the most difficult part: I have used the D10 with SE530 and SR80 and on both it sounds bright to me???? I know it is too early to say, but ... can anyone comment on this?


----------



## turkeyboya

what the different between stock buffer AD708, and AD711 ??
 which better??

 please advise me

 thanks


----------



## dnm

I've been lurking here for a while now, great thread! My D10 arrived on Monday and I have started the burn in. Few notes and questions: 

 - my D10 have a new type of spdif connector that does not require a stopper (if you want a picture, let me know), I was initially confused and e-mail ibasso, they kindly explained:

_We used a new type of optical jack, which has a strobe instead of the stopping plug. _

 - also I have noticed that my D10 has AD711 as default buffer not AD708 as I heard on this thread, I am not sure if there is a difference

 - I don't understand one thing: does D10 use the battery when connected as a USB DAC to a PC? I was using it only connected to a PC most of the time and now my battery is low? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - ok, now the most difficult part: I have used the D10 with SE530 and SR80 and on both it sounds bright to me???? I know it is too early to say, but ... can anyone comment on this?


----------



## rebski

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lxxl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello rebski,

 Does the new jacks look any different? if so can you show us a picture of it? I bought mine in June, I hope they replaced the new jacks then._

 

The date of the email confirmation that new jacks are used was 11th June. As to when iBasso started using them I can't say but if your order was after 11th June then you should be ok.

 I have never opened my case so can't say that there is any difference in appearance. re photo, I shall see what I can do. I shall investigate opamp swapping and that would provide the opportunity for a photograph.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *turkeyboya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what the different between stock buffer AD708, and AD711 ??
 which better??

 please advise me

 thanks_

 

Don't know what the differences are, but if you look closely at mine you can see it is actually an AD8532 with 708 printed on the chip below that. So yours might also be an AD8532 but with a 711 on the chip below that (might be a lot # or batch #).

 Also, I preferred the AD8656 with either stock buffers or bypassed buffers over the stock opamp. The AD8656 seems to get a little brighter when used with buffers vs no buffers, so which is better depends on your headphones. There are some good instructions in this thread with photos for rolling the opamps.


----------



## ztsen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't know what the differences are, but if you look closely at mine you can see it is actually an AD8532 with 708 printed on the chip below that. So yours might also be an AD8532 but with a 711 on the chip below that (might be a lot # or batch #).

 Also, I preferred the AD8656 with either stock buffers or bypassed buffers over the stock opamp. The AD8656 seems to get a little brighter when used with buffers vs no buffers, so which is better depends on your headphones. There are some good instructions in this thread with photos for rolling the opamps._

 

I also prefer the combination of AD8656 with either stock buffer or bypassed. With stock buffer sounds good for my headphone. Bypassed buffer sounds better for my IEM.


----------



## dnm

I've been lurking here for a while now, great thread! My D10 arrived on Monday and I have started the burn in. Few notes and questions: 

 - my D10 have a new type of spdif connector that does not require a stopper (if you want a picture, let me know), I was initially confused and e-mail ibasso, they kindly explained:

_We used a new type of optical jack, which has a strobe instead of the stopping plug. _

 - also I have noticed that my D10 has AD711 as default buffer not AD708 as I heard on this thread, I am not sure if there is a difference

 - I don't understand one thing: does D10 use the battery when connected as a USB DAC to a PC? I was using it only connected to a PC most of the time and now my battery is low? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - ok, now the most difficult part: I have used the D10 with SE530 and SR80 and on both it sounds bright to me???? I know it is too early to say, but ... can anyone comment on this?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dnm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been lurking here for a while now, great thread! My D10 arrived on Monday and I have started the burn in. Few notes and questions: _

 

congrats!!

  Quote:


 - my D10 have a new type of spdif connector that does not require a stopper (if you want a picture, let me know), I was initially confused and e-mail ibasso, they kindly explained:

_We used a new type of optical jack, which has a strobe instead of the stopping plug. _ 
 

nice, I just sent mine back to get the new minijacks installed. maybe i'll get that too. 

  Quote:


 - also I have noticed that my D10 has AD711 as default buffer not AD708 as I heard on this thread, I am not sure if there is a difference 
 

there have been a few 'stock' configurations, this is not unusual. actually I find it comforting that ibasso is so obviously continually evolving the D10 even within the same product cycle. cant wait to get mine back so I can rol the blackgates in. thought I would wait as who knows. I guess its possible they will just find it easier to slide in a new board rather than replacing both front and rear jacks. so I sent it back with the stock op-amps installed just in case. I think I would prefer not though, as that would mean burning it in all over again.




  Quote:


 - I don't understand one thing: does D10 use the battery when connected as a USB DAC to a PC? I was using it only connected to a PC most of the time and now my battery is low? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - ok, now the most difficult part: I have used the D10 with SE530 and SR80 and on both it sounds bright to me???? I know it is too early to say, but ... can anyone comment on this? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 

yes the D10 is always running on battery power; even when connected via USB; in fact even with the charge switch on (which i'm guessing is something you are not doing??) it still trickle charges and runs off battery.

 as for the brightness; give it a little time, then if you still find that; try rollingh some op-amps. the grados i'm not at all surprised as IMO they are always a bit forward/bright/edgy for my taste. the SE530 is a little odd. what tips are you using?? again you might just need to get used to running the SE530 amped?? is this your first portable amp?? amping SE530 does actually add some more energy that is sometimes lacking when unamped. so likely you are just not used to it and need to burn-in your brain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IMO its a pretty massive misnomer around here that SE530 do not change with amping


----------



## amham

I just receive my D10 and my first impressions are the same as the recent post...it seems bright, almost "tizzy". While I only have a few hours on the device I'm thoroughly familiar with the sound of the Wolfson DAC on several other of my DAC's/CD players and I was not expecting a bright sounding portable DAC/Amp. Although break-in could ultimate tame some of this the overall first listening is somewhat disappointing. I wonder in their efforts to continually enhance/modify the D10 they "jacked-up" the high-end. My primary can is the Grado 60 for portability...yes this is a bright can...switched to my Senn 650 and the same overriding sense of brightness (and this from the 650!).


----------



## dnm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_congrats!!
 yes the D10 is always running on battery power; even when connected via USB; in fact even with the charge switch on (which i'm guessing is something you are not doing??) it still trickle charges and runs off battery.

 as for the brightness; give it a little time, then if you still find that; try rollingh some op-amps. the grados i'm not at all surprised as IMO they are always a bit forward/bright/edgy for my taste. the SE530 is a little odd. what tips are you using?? again you might just need to get used to running the SE530 amped?? is this your first portable amp?? amping SE530 does actually add some more energy that is sometimes lacking when unamped. so likely you are just not used to it and need to burn-in your brain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IMO its a pretty massive misnomer around here that SE530 do not change with amping_

 

 Well, it would sound logical to me to disconnect the battery when the power is on and run on external power, charging the battery if necessary. I guess that's how ipods do this? 

 I am using large black olive tips and I have very good seal with them. With my home amp they sound very ballanced and with ipod they are also pretty good.

 I have replaced the stock opamps with AD8656 and dummy buffers. The sound is more ballanced to my taste now. Also with optical spdif used it improved even more, I have actually started to enjoy it!

 You are right, it is my first portable amp, so my brain needs some burn-in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Thanks for your help!


----------



## oldskoolboarder

I would like to see a pic. I've had my D10 for a few weeks and it came w/ the standard optical jack. Bummer that I didn't know it was going to change. The stopper falls off in the bag, slight annoyance but no biggie.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dnm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, it would sound logical to me to disconnect the battery when the power is on and run on external power, charging the battery if necessary. I guess that's how ipods do this?_

 

well that would require a totally separate circuit to filter the power from USB which is actually quite dirty in general, instead the batteries are used as a sort of capacitor bank. ipods run off battery when on charge as well, which is why when your ipod is totally dead; it will need a minute or 2 after plugging into charge/sync before it will boot up and become useable.

  Quote:


 I am using large black olive tips and I have very good seal with them. With my home amp they sound very ballanced and with ipod they are also pretty good. 
 

well olives on SE530 were/are my least favourite tip (funnily I enjoy them on UM3X) and may be part of the problem, a good seal does not always equate to balanced sound. all the same it more likely to be a combination of factors including the D10 needing some burn-in along with your brain. out of the stock opamps I found the AD8599 with AD8656 or bypassed buffers to go well with SE530-. non-stock OPA2350 with AD8616 suits better and presents less hiss with SE530 than the non-class A topkit IMO.

  Quote:


 I have replaced the stock opamps with AD8656 and dummy buffers. The sound is more ballanced to my taste now. Also with optical spdif used it improved even more, I have actually started to enjoy it! 
 

this combination is pretty nice too, smoother than stock and with improved soundstage. optical is well beyond USB to these ears.

  Quote:


 You are right, it is my first portable amp, so my brain needs some burn-in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Thanks for your help! 
 

thought so, you will grpow to enjoy it more day by day I assure you ;D. no problem on the help.


----------



## amham

I decided to try the suggested 8656 to try and get rid if this annoying brightness but having difficulty removing the volume knob. Is it the same tool included or an Allen wrench? I assume you must remove the front cover, yes? Thanks!

 OFCOURSE...no need to remove the volume, just push from rear!

 Well, the 8656 does indeed tame the brightness somewhat but still too "tizzy" for my tastes. Will let burn-in but this may be up for sale???


----------



## jamato8

You need to let it burn in. Mine never was bright or tizzy. I would email iBasso if it continues even with opamp rolling. They know the sound of their amps very well and having heard a few different amps they had burnt in I know that they have good taste in sound and are striving to improve all the time. 

 As qusp states, usb power is dirty and isn't the greatest as a direct power source.


----------



## dnm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldskoolboarder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to see a pic. I've had my D10 for a few weeks and it came w/ the standard optical jack. Bummer that I didn't know it was going to change. The stopper falls off in the bag, slight annoyance but no biggie._

 

Here is the pic of the optical on my d10:






 The spdif port is flush and opens up when the connector is inserted, pretty neat, the same as on my x-fi elite pro.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amham* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I decided to try the suggested 8656 to try and get rid if this annoying brightness but having difficulty removing the volume knob. Is it the same tool included or an Allen wrench? I assume you must remove the front cover, yes? Thanks!

 OFCOURSE...no need to remove the volume, just push from rear!

 Well, the 8656 does indeed tame the brightness somewhat but still too "tizzy" for my tastes. Will let burn-in but this may be up for sale???_

 

You might try the OPA2228 with the EL8201 or the included LMH6643 as buffers. That should be a warmer combination for your IEMs.


----------



## amham

HiFlight,

 Thanks for the recommendation. My only option at the moment are the include op-amps. Some confusion here about the buffers. In my understanding, a buffer is a unity gain device sometimes used for impedance matching or isolation, etc. Is this the purpose of the D10's? What is the downside of not using or using? Thanks!


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dnm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is the pic of the optical on my d10:






 The spdif port is flush and opens up when the connector is inserted, pretty neat, the same as on my x-fi elite pro._

 

I like the new optical port. It the kind i had been hoping for before it release. Shame that ibasso didn't use it in the first place.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Ah. Much better optical port. No plug to lose. It's only a matter of time for me.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Thanks dnm. Much better. It's a matter of time before I lose my plug...


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many thanks, kaushama, for sharing the results of your search with us. The CryoParts Pop Pulse USB to SPDIF Converter seems to best provide what will fill in a "hole" in my rigs that I'm looking most to fill in (for right about my target budget), so I just placed an order for one.
 When it arrives, and I get a chance to hear what it can do, I'll let you know how it performs._

 

This converter has arrived, and, in only about a day, it has done a few very nice things for my quest for good-sounding audio.
 1) It has provided me with a really good-sounding Optical Digital source for my trio of DACs from a spare USB port on any of my computers. And that, in itself, makes it well worth what I paid for it (about the same as I paid for my current soundcard). That it is conveniently Plug-N-Play portable to any of my currently available computers via USB is SO nice - it really adds value.
 2) It has helped me to enlarge the scope of my search for why the sound from some of my digital music collection is sounding "clipped" or "truncated", which I especially notice when I use the Optical Digital output of my new soundcard. It was easy to blame the new soundcard because I did not hear this artifact before with the previous soundcard. On a completely different computer, and NOT using the new soundcard, I am hearing some of this same artifact. I haven't tracked down the source(s) of this pleasure-diminishing artifact, but I cannot blame my unfortunate new soundcard for it just because I happen to notice it more when I use it. A new, independent and conveniently portable Optical Digital source is a handy new tool in searching out the cause of the "truncated sound" artifact that I am trying to eliminate in my digital music reproduction rigs.


----------



## Viper2005

I have a quick question for you guys:
 Do the choice of op-amps affect the line-out in any way at all? Or do they only affect the headphone out?


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Viper2005* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a quick question for you guys:
 Do the choice of op-amps affect the line-out in any way at all? Or do they only affect the headphone out?_

 


 Headphone out only.


----------



## Viper2005

Good to know, thanks.
 I am thinking of using the D10 with dark op amps as DAC and line out to Shanling PH1000 (a warm amp). This way, I can take the D10 with me as a portable and when I'm home , use the Shanling as the amp.


----------



## madwolf

Investigating as to why SPDIF is much better than USB interface on the D10. I started some additional investigation. Using a software waveform generator I generate square waves and measure it on the scope this is what I found. 

 This is a 1Khz Square wave using SPDIF. The left and right signal is place close together on a dual trace OSC-Scope






 The wave form is mono and I adjusted the amplitiude on the OSC-Scope so that you could see the waveform side by side. The ringing (overshoot and undershoot) is normal. 

 Using USB and even trying with different computer this is what I get which is NOT normal. 





 As you could see highlighted by the 2 red arrow the signal is not in phase. It is about 4 degree out of phase, Or about one sample (sampling frequency) off. I could offset the phase in the signal generator so that is how I calculate the difference in Phase. 
 What this means is that one side of the sound is coming out slightly faster then the other. The Left and Right signal is suppose to be Mono or equivalent to Mono. 

 I will try to investigate more. Sorry for another troubling find.


----------



## GreenLeo

That's interesting. Any way you can measure the output from the optical as well?


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's interesting. Any way you can measure the output from the optical as well?_

 

Coaxial/optical should be the same...both spdif.


----------



## madwolf

I measure from Coax and Optical it is the same. My gut feel currently, is that the problem is either the USB drivers on my PC or the PCM2906. But I tried with a few PC. Maybe it is Windoze.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Investigating as to why SPDIF is much better than USB interface on the D10. I started some additional investigation. Using a software waveform generator I generate square waves and measure it on the scope this is what I found. 

 This is a 1Khz Square wave using SPDIF. The left and right signal is place close together on a dual trace OSC-Scope





 The wave form is mono and I adjusted the amplitiude on the OSC-Scope so that you could see the waveform side by side. The ringing (overshoot and undershoot) is normal. 

 Using USB and even trying with different computer this is what I get which is NOT normal. 





 As you could see highlighted by the 2 red arrow the signal is not in phase. It is about 4 degree out of phase, Or about one sample (sampling frequency) off. I could offset the phase in the signal generator so that is how I calculate the difference in Phase. 
 What this means is that one side of the sound is coming out slightly faster then the other. The Left and Right signal is suppose to be Mono or equivalent to Mono. 

 I will try to investigate more. Sorry for another troubling find._

 

Does that change between headphone out and line-out, or when opamps are changed?


----------



## bakhtiar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*I measure from Coax and Optical it is the same*. My gut feel currently, is that the problem is either the USB drivers on my PC or the PCM2906. But I tried with a few PC. Maybe it is Windoze._

 

Thanks for your very informative test result. I like the part which you mentioned that coax and optical are the same. ) So we can assume that the coax is better than optical is a hoax/myth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 To ensure that whether there is problem with USB portion in D10 or the OS fault, I suggest you to try to use USB to SPDIF converter.

 PC -USB-> (USB to SPDIF converter) -> SPDIF -> D10

 Or you can use other OS, such as Mac OSX or GNU/Linux. If you are using GNU/Linux, I can help you by providing the ALSA configuration.

 Thanks again for the valuable information.

 p/s: iBasso should send you a special token of appreciation.


----------



## madwolf

The error, first appear at the USB receiver PCM2906, 
 So it affect both the Line-out and headphone out. 

 But to be fair, I do not think the problem is with Ibasso, as I could not see anything wrong with the design. 

 I have a feeling this is a widespread problem. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does that change between headphone out and line-out, or when opamps are changed?_


----------



## TheMarchingMule

If I may slip in here and ask a quick question:

 Can I use the Aux In/Out (how do you change which direction?) to convert into an RCA signal that I can feed into an Audioengine A5?

 And if I can, will the signal be "fixed," like an iPod LOD, or will it sadly be adjustable on the D10's volume knob?

 Many thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*EDIT:* Wait, I think I understand it now. It becomes a line-out when it's getting stuff from the USB side, so the answer is yes, the output volume is fixed, correct? So just use a 1/8-to-RCA cable and I'm set!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I may slip in here and ask a quick question:

 Can I use the Aux In/Out (how do you change which direction?) to convert into an RCA signal that I can feed into an Audioengine A5?

 And if I can, will the signal be "fixed," like an iPod LOD, or will it sadly be adjustable on the D10's volume knob?

 Many thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*EDIT:* Wait, I think I understand it now. It becomes a line-out when it's getting stuff from the USB side, so the answer is yes, the output volume is fixed, correct? So just use a 1/8-to-RCA cable and I'm set!_

 

You can get a mini to RCA (left & right) cable for the line out. The signal is fix output, i.e., the volume control will not affect the line out.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can get a mini to RCA (left & right) cable for the line out. The signal is fix output, i.e., the volume control will not affect the line out._

 

Shwing! That's awesome, now this amp can do all three things that I wanted it to.


Use as an iPod amp via LOD
Use as a DAC for my Shure SRH840
Use as the DAC for future Audioengine A5
Assuming that the D10 is up to the power challenge of supporting a speaker's demands. If anybody can answer that question, or make a well-placed guess, that'd be real swell.

 In the meantime I'm curious where madwolf's discovery will lead to, so I'll sit tight in this thread and see what happens.


----------



## madwolf

Ladies and Gentlemen, 

 Found an Errata from Texas Instrument. 
http://focus.ti.com/lit/er/slaz036a/slaz036a.pdf

 An extract from the Errata 

  Quote:


 2.2 Inter-Channel Phase Difference
 2.3 Exceeding Max-Packet Size
 Problems, Restrictions, Workaround Analog, Embedded Processing, Semiconductor Company, Texas Instruments
 Problems
 The PCM290X has delay of 1 sample at each channels as follows:
 · Up-stream data from ADC, S/PDIF in : Rch data delay (1 sample)
 · Down-stream data to DAC, S/PDIF out : Lch data delay (1 sample)
 Restrictions
 Recording or playback of general audio or S/PDIF In/Out of Linear PCM, makes minimal difference to
 the listener. However, the critical application for the inter-channel phase difference, data transfer
 between USB and S/PDIF In/Out, can not be used.
 Workaround
 If the inter-channel difference is not allowed, the user must solve this problem in the application
 software. It is not possible to solve this problem by any modification of external circuit.
 TI is considering corrections to solve the problem, and will notify the user when a solution is
 determined.
 Take care to note the problems listed in this document when considering the use of these products for
 new projects. 
 

There is an upgraded part 2906B 
 And according to the article, publish in Jan 2009 at
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slel056/slel056.pdf
  Quote:


 c. Fix of one-sample interchannel phase error in recording and playback. 
 

If this is the case, Most of the existing product in the market would be affected as PCM290x is widely used. 
 EDIT: I wounder if the PCM270x are affected need to investigate 

 Using a USB to SPDIF is unlikely to solve the problem as the device is most likely using a PCM290x device. Unless it is using the upgraded version. 

 I need to catch some sleep. 


















 I am really not expecting this.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ladies and Gentlemen, 

 Found an Errata from Texas Instrument. 
http://focus.ti.com/lit/er/slaz036a/slaz036a.pdf

 An extract from the Errata 



 There is an upgraded part 2906B 
 And according to the article, publish in Jan 2009 at
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slel056/slel056.pdf


 If this is the case, Most of the existing product in the market would be affected as PCM290x is widely used. 
 RSA Predator uses the 2902 

 Using a USB to SPDIF is unlikely to solve the problem as the device is most likely using a PCM290x device. Unless it is using the upgraded version. 

 I need to catch some sleep. 

















 I am really not expecting this._

 

I wonder how the Burr Brown Japan PCM2702E version would respond, as it is an upgraded version as well, if I recall. Every DAC I have heard with this chip (3MOVE, XM5, EF2) sounds better than the PCM2706 DAC's (like Headstage Lyrix, or iBasso D1).


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shwing! That's awesome, now this amp can do all three things that I wanted it to.


Use as an iPod amp via LOD
Use as a DAC for my Shure SRH840
Use as the DAC for future Audioengine A5
Assuming that the D10 is up to the power challenge of supporting a speaker's demands. If anybody can answer that question, or make a well-placed guess, that'd be real swell.

 In the meantime I'm curious where madwolf's discovery will lead to, so I'll sit tight in this thread and see what happens._

 

Hi,
 you can use the D10 
 as a DAC by using the AUX OUT getting a (fixed) line level signal
 or
 as a pre amp by using the headphone out.
 It is fine for driving active speakers like the Audioengine .....
 At the moment an amp or something like this (not a source) is connected to AUX OUT while the D10 is feeded by USB or COAX/OPT, it switches from AUX IN to OUT, HEADPHONE out is disconnected.

 With an adapter like this you can use standard RCA/Cinch cables for connection.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Thanks *rhw*, but soon after I posted that, I started to wander off into the "passive speakers" aisle, and I think I'm a goner.


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 you can use the D10 
 as a DAC by using the AUX OUT getting a (fixed) line level signal
 or
 as a pre amp by using the headphone out.
 It is fine for driving active speakers like the Audioengine .....
 At the moment an amp or something like this (not a source) is connected to AUX OUT while the D10 is feeded by USB or COAX/OPT, it switches from AUX IN to OUT, HEADPHONE out is disconnected.

 With an adapter like this you can use standard RCA/Cinch cables for connection.



_

 

I will be a little worried using adapter like that as it might put too much stress on the mini socket on your D10.


----------



## bakhtiar

Only 1 sample delay (1/44100 or 1/48000 sec) ... Mmmm... I am pretty sure no human can tell the differences.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be a little worried using adapter like that as it might put too much stress on the mini socket on your D10._

 

Well, I think it will be fine for stationary use, not for moving around.
 Looks a bit strange - the plugs tend to become bigger than the DAC.


----------



## twylight

So is this a problem or jitter talk - I am about to pull the trigger on a portable dac/amp for iems - its between this, a pico, and a 3move - will be um3x and eventually jh13pro - its laptop or LOD source - mostly laptop


----------



## oxophone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *twylight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So is this a problem or jitter talk - I am about to pull the trigger on a portable dac/amp_

 

the same question here: is D10 affected ?


----------



## lhamp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *twylight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So is this a problem or jitter talk - I am about to pull the trigger on a portable dac/amp for iems - its between this, a pico, and a 3move - will be um3x and eventually jh13pro - its laptop or LOD source - mostly laptop_

 

All I can tell you is, from experience, the d10 is fantastic with UM3X (particularly with UM56 which I see you have).


----------



## twylight

pulled the trigger, will be rolling it when it comes in...I have a small pile of opamps and stuff =)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 you can use the D10 
 as a DAC by using the AUX OUT getting a (fixed) line level signal
 or
 as a pre amp by using the headphone out.
 It is fine for driving active speakers like the Audioengine .....
 At the moment an amp or something like this (not a source) is connected to AUX OUT while the D10 is feeded by USB or COAX/OPT, it switches from AUX IN to OUT, HEADPHONE out is disconnected.

 With an adapter like this you can use standard RCA/Cinch cables for connection.



_

 

Cute little adapter. I went with this particular APureSound.com 1/8" > RCA female adpater instead, because it puts less stress on the 1/8" jack.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your very informative test result. I like the part which you mentioned that coax and optical are the same. )* So we can assume that the coax is better than optical is a hoax/myth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.*

 To ensure that whether there is problem with USB portion in D10 or the OS fault, I suggest you to try to use USB to SPDIF converter.

 PC -USB-> (USB to SPDIF converter) -> SPDIF -> D10

 Or you can use other OS, such as Mac OSX or GNU/Linux. If you are using GNU/Linux, I can help you by providing the ALSA configuration.

 Thanks again for the valuable information.

 p/s: iBasso should send you a special token of appreciation._

 

errrmmm no that would NOT be a safe assumption. if the problem is with the PCM270X, then of course both results will have the same problem. in general coax presents less jitter than optical SPDIF and the view (one I hold) that coax is superior to optical is based on more things than its performance on the D10


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks *rhw*, but soon after I posted that, I started to wander off into the "passive speakers" aisle, and I think I'm a goner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

are you sure about that?? active monitors are IMO a far superior option. products like ATC are making $$$ their active monitors are sooo much superior to their passive designs. with active monitors, generally they are bi-amped, one tuned specifically for driving each driver; rather than leaving it totally up to a crossover to choose. then there is the question of synergy, which IME usually comes out on the side of the active pairing, since they are literally built for each-other.


----------



## madwolf

The very first Bling Bling Mod on the D10

 Blue LED 






 How does it sound ? It is just bluer, and more Beautiful 
 Tested with Bluer than Blue by Livingston Taylor, Chesky Records

 Wounder would they void my warrenty.


----------



## Khemist

Just wanted to chime in! My D10 came in on Monday (six days shipping to Alabama). Quality piece of gear. Loving it attached the the computer via USB and my W3s. Really, really like what it's done using the CB03 LOD from my 2G Touch. It is thoroughly enjoyable again (I had sort of soured on the Touch after comparing it to my Clip, both un-amped).

 Wish I had some sort of optical source to play with (besides the Xbox 360, which is in a media cabinet and hard to access).

 Now on to my search for full-size headphones. Always open to suggestions, this place (especially Headphone Addict 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) has been dead on so far.


----------



## michaelsk

I wonder why these companies don't use green led's in their portable amps?, cause green uses less current out of the color led's, that means longer battery life.


----------



## Viper2005

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Paddy855* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I only so far use the D10 with my Westone 3's and among all the opamps provided stock by iBasso I found that with the AD8656 in LR and LMH6643 as buffers the D10 sounds best with the W3: Extremely fast, tight and articulate throughout the whole spectrum with the mids slightly forward (possibly due to boosted upper mids) and crisp clean detail with excellent instrument separation. Soundstage is also considerably wider than with the D10's stock configuration. I will receive new opamps from HiFlight soon and I am sure to find other lovely options in them._

 

I have just tried this combination and it works much much better with the Shure srh840's than the 8656/bypass that I was using earlier... that combination had too much midbass bloat and the vocals sounded veiled. The AD8656/LMH6643 also seems to improve the tightness of the bass and lifts the veil. In fact, this combination brings the phones closer to the MS1's that I have, but with much added bass.

 EDIT: 8656/8532 is even better!! More bass, but still crispy highs


----------



## madwolf

Double Bypass buffers 

 For user who like the sound of AD8656 and Bypass buffers you should try this 

 Double Bypass buffers. 





 It sound warmer and there are less sibilance and bass is tighter as well, compared to the bypass buffers that comes with the amplifier. 

 This one is really easy to make as well just solder a small wire joining pin 2 and 3, and another joining pin 5 and 6 on an empty socket. 

 Using the single buffers supplied by the factory The output resistance between the L/R amp and the headphone is about 6 ohm. Using the double buffers it is reduce by half or about 3 ohm. Allowing the L/R amp better control of the phone. 

 This combination sound really good. It is very good for battery life as well. 
 But is only suitable if you have an easy to drive IEM or headphone.


----------



## bakhtiar

Oooo.. another nice mods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... I think I can use the RJ45 CAT 6's cable core for the purpose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

 Thank you, my friend.


----------



## LeeSC

I am discovering new sound now with my new Topkit AD744 rolled in in my BGNX modded D10 and ESW10. Very nice. I find the sound very close to RSA P-51; much improve as compared to when I had my AD743 in it. Though the bass is deeper with P-51 but not by much. I have no motivation of setting up iRiver -> D10 -> P-51 -> ESW10. I am not sure if it is the AD744 or the BGNX mod or all the above that made the difference. I hate to put the AD743 back in as I will scratch my BG caps. even more.


----------



## jamato8

File off the inside lip that is digging into the BG's as you slide the board in and out. By filing this protruding inner section everything will slide in and out very easily and the caps won't come to harm. The Black Gates do make a difference in the ultimate quality of sound.


----------



## chaospanda

I just notice something about the topkit 743/8616. When I push my d10 pass 12 o' clock I start to hear distortion. I wonder if anyone notice this?


----------



## HiFlight

Distortion largely depends upon the voltage of the input signal. Try using a line-out from your player into the D10. It should easily handle the standard voltage from a line-0ut source.


----------



## chaospanda

okay so I play around with the d10. I plug usb->d10->headphone out and turn the knob pass 12 o clock and then I hear distortion. Then I plug my source to the aux in/out and my headphone to headphone out then turn the knob again and I start hearing distrotion after 1 o clock. That is a little better.


----------



## rhw

How full is your battery?
 I get distortions esp. at higher volume when the battery drops under a limit.


----------



## chaospanda

my battery is full


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chaospanda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my battery is full_

 

What headphones are you using?


----------



## chaospanda

hd600 and my friend tested with his hd600


----------



## wuwhere

That's a high impedance hp.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chaospanda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hd600 and my friend tested with his hd600_

 

Try it with the charger plugged into the D10.


----------



## chaospanda

same result =[


----------



## rhw

Prefered opamps

 At the moment I prefer a 228 CA (Class A) modul together with the EL2801 buffers.
 In contrast to the 744 OBCA it gives more body to acoustical instruments while the advantage of the 744 is a wider soundspace and more subtle micro information (top mids to highs).
 With good recordings the 228 CA combination sounds more natural.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Prefered opamps

 At the moment I prefer a 228 CA (Class A) modul together with the EL2801 buffers.
 In contrast to the 744 OBCA it gives more body to acoustical instruments while the advantage of the 744 is a wider soundspace and more subtle micro information (top mids to highs).
 With good recordings the 228 CA combination sounds more natural._

 

Does the OPA228 CA provide more upper bass/lower mids as compared to the AD744 OBCA? With EL2801 as buffers.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the OPA228 CA provide more upper bass/lower mids as compared to the AD744 OBCA? With EL2801 as buffers._

 

In my opinion it does. That's what I like listening to it.


----------



## Viper2005

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chaospanda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_same result =[_

 

Hmm, if you are outputting from a computer, do your sound files have a high enough bitrate? Is your gain switch on or off?
 My D10 gives no distortions even to the 3 o clock position (its as far as i dare turn it). You might have a defective unit..


----------



## oxophone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am discovering new sound now with my new Topkit AD744 rolled in in my BGNX modded D10 and ESW10. Very nice. ... I hate to put the AD743 back in as I will scratch my BG caps. even more._

 

Can you please share the steps involved in this BG modification? 
 Jamato, please also contribute.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In my opinion it does. That's what I like listening to it._

 

Thanks. I'll try them then.


----------



## HiFlight

For those who enjoy the sound of the OPA2227/2228 in LR, I might suggest auditioning the EL8201 in LR with buffers bypassed. Similar SQ, but wider and deeper soundstage. More impact in the lower registers. 

 While most often utilized as a buffer, the 8201 sounds remarkably good in the D10 with bypassed buffers.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who enjoy the sound of the OPA2227/2228 in LR, I might suggest auditioning the EL8201 in LR with buffers bypassed. Similar SQ, but wider and deeper soundstage. More impact in the lower registers. 

 While most often utilized as a buffer, the 8201 sounds remarkably good in the D10 with bypassed buffers._

 

Have you tried the OPA2228/EL8201 or OPA2350/EL8201 with your IEM yet? I'm wondering how that would sound? The AD744OBCA/EL8201 is very slightly bright at times with my ES3X and JH13Pro, and I was thinking about trying a few other combos.


----------



## chaospanda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Viper2005* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, if you are outputting from a computer, do your sound files have a high enough bitrate? Is your gain switch on or off?
 My D10 gives no distortions even to the 3 o clock position (its as far as i dare turn it). You might have a defective unit.._

 

I changed the op amp and tested again and it seen works fine with no distrotion. So in conclusion my topkit was defected?


----------



## HiFlight

OPA2350/EL8201 has more "punch" than 744OBCA, probably would not reduce the brightness enough for your IEMs. OPA2227/2228/ is a better choice with sensitive IEMs.
 The 8201 with bypassed buffers has less high-end emphasis than either of the above, but yet doesn't seem to lack high-end detail. 

 I have a set of Denon orthodynamic phones that are bright on the highs, and the bypassed EL8201 sounds very good with them. Probably not Topkit overall, but nice for relaxed listening. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried the OPA2228/EL8201 or OPA2350/EL8201 with your IEM yet? I'm wondering how that would sound? The AD744OBCA/EL8201 is very slightly bright at times with my ES3X and JH13Pro, and I was thinking about trying a few other combos._


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oxophone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you please share the steps involved in this BG modification? 
 Jamato, please also contribute._

 

If you look back page 184, you will see some discussion on Black Gate caps roll. John (Jamato) did his and that is why I decided to roll mine. I got my caps, but did not have time to do it and rhw beat me to it and posted a picture of his very work on that. As John stated, space is VERY LIMITED!!! You will also have to file the inside of the case so that it will nost scratch the two big BG caps. I have filed mine, but may be should have gone a little more as it is still scratching them every time I open mine up. It is not as bad as before for sure. There are other mod. done by others as well, I can't remember who, but if you start reading from page 184, you will see. John, rhw and I swapt out the original 2x1000uf and 2x220uf and replace them with Black Gate 2x470uf 6.3V and 2x220uf 6.3V. John also did swap out another 0.1 uf but I did not. I believe rhw did not do that as well. Mine you, it will take a long time to burn in the BG caps. I am targetting a 1200 hour burn in time and I am 620 hours into it now.

 Some tips for caps. mod. by rhw and me adding one extra bit can be found here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5836952-post2751.html


----------



## raymondu999

Question about the BG mod - if I mod my D10 with BG caps, does that mean that I no longer need to use an iMod LOD with my iMod?


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *raymondu999* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question about the BG mod - if I mod my D10 with BG caps, does that mean that I no longer need to use an iMod LOD with my iMod?_

 

The changed caps are NOT in the input, 
 therefore you will need to use the iMod LOD.


----------



## raymondu999

Where are the caps actually situated, circuitry wise? Between its internal DAC and its amp, in a sense the same place caps are in an iMod + iMod LOD?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OPA2350/EL8201 has more "punch" than 744OBCA, probably would not reduce the brightness enough for your IEMs. OPA2227/2228/ is a better choice with sensitive IEMs.
 The 8201 with bypassed buffers has less high-end emphasis than either of the above, but yet doesn't seem to lack high-end detail. 

 I have a set of Denon orthodynamic phones that are bright on the highs, and the bypassed EL8201 sounds very good with them. Probably not Topkit overall, but nice for relaxed listening._

 

Great, I have the OPA2228 to try, and also the EL8201. I'll see if I can find the time tomorrow.


----------



## ElEsido

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Packgrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rockbox (v3.3) now fully supports 24/96 files_

 

Where did you see that? I quickly searched the changelog and the manual and didn't see that being mentioned. What was mentioned is that they removed a bug that interrupted the playback ov 24/96 files, but I interpret this in a way that the 24/96 data stream is still down-bit-rated and downsampled to 16/44.1 before being processed (as it is described here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/ir...6/#post5912214)


----------



## Celph_Titled

Im not good with the specs. thinking of getting the d10 to power my beyer dt990's 250 impedance through ipod classic. will this do the job?


----------



## Mediahound

Should be fine, although I haven't tried those cans myself.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Celph_Titled* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im not good with the specs. thinking of getting the d10 to power my beyer dt990's 250 impedance through ipod classic. will this do the job?_


----------



## madwolf

With regards to Capacitor rolling, I am currently searching for a suitable Capacitor to roll to the D10. 

 There does not seem to be an equivalent capacitor in the blackgate camp. 
 The closest in Spec is the Standard series and K series but these are at least 4 times the size. Which would not fit into the D10. 

 Why did you guys choose to use the N/NX series from the picture it is the NX/220 which is a 6.3V 220uF, This is a Bipolar or Non polarized capacitor which is not required in the D10. 

 Have anyone consider alternative, SANYO OSCON, Nichicon Fine Gold, Panasonic FC, ELNA Cerfine ........ or maybe straight to MKP ? 

 The stock Cap are Nippon Chem ASF


----------



## chaospanda

In this picture the two big capacitors on the left side are NX/220 and the two capacitors on the right are NX/470 right?


----------



## madwolf

Cannot tell from this picture, but the NX/470 is 12.5 x 24mm Which is too long it will not fit inside the D10. The D10 will only fit in 20mm long cap you need 2 of that. 

 But the smaller one if they are 220uf it should be NX/220


----------



## wuwhere

The Panasonic FCs are suppose to be good caps for audio, how about Rubycons? They used to manufacture the BGs.


----------



## denging

i use rubycon ZL 3900uF on my P3... its well fit in without any scraping


----------



## Booda

_


			
				Nimrad;5321255 said:
			
		


			Do you guys think this will be for sale in the forum soon? I'm thinking of buying one, but I want to buy it from a private person (preferrably used) so it's a little cheaper and they can help me avoid stupid Norwegian customs 

Click to expand...




			
				Nimrad;5321255 said:
			
		


			Here are some clues for the cast off gears. could be including some good AMP. please PM the corresponding person.


http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/am...8/index48.html

Click to expand...

_


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cannot tell from this picture, but the NX/470 is 12.5 x 24mm Which is too long it will not fit inside the D10. The D10 will only fit in 20mm long cap you need 2 of that. 

 But the smaller one if they are 220uf it should be NX/220_

 

These are two 470uF and two 220uF NX caps. The two 220 are smaller than the original caps, when moved to the front of the amp, the right on the picture, the 24mm 470uF fit. The 470uF caps are thicker than the original ones. Flipping the case and filing a ridge does help.
 Black Gate NX are called to be the best caps in powersupply circuit, too.


----------



## LeeSC

Hey rhw, did you swap out the 0.1uf as well?


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey rhw, did you swap out the 0.1uf as well?_

 

Hi Lee,
 no, I didn't swap the 0.1uF Wima foil.
 John (Jamato) bypassed every BG cap with a 0.1uF.
 I havn't done this .....


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denging* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i use rubycon ZL 3900uF on my P3... its well fit in without any scraping_

 

How's the Rubycons' SQ?


----------



## lhamp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bonthouse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, so after some macro photos and cleaning up in Photoshop.. yeah, it's really THAT tiny and smudged I came to the conclusion that is a AD744 OBCA.
 So am I knit picking on this? Is there anyone with the same setup (AD744OBCA/EL8201) and Shure SE530's that can confirm/deny the hiss?

 EDIT: Oh, and it sounds darker than the stock D10 amp, but this is normal, right?_

 

Does anyone else hear this?

 I received Class A AD744's and EL8201's from Ron last week and had to return the AD744's because there was so much "hiss".... is this the same "breathing" I've heard some describe? For me the hiss/white noise/breathing was quite loud. Not subtle in any way. And I've only heard it on the AD744's.

 Right now I'm using Class A OPA350's with my 8201's... and the amp sounds great... but I can't help thinking I'm missing out on something based on all the comments on the AD744/EL8201 combo.

 Oh... and i forgot to mention, I'm using UM3X's.


----------



## dazzer1975

its quite possibly your earphones.

 I havent got the ad744, but using my shure se530's and certain op amps, notably the stock ones, the d10 hisses like a mofo.

 Could be your earphone sensitivity perhaps?

 Of course, doesnt help you with the hiss, but maybe gives an answer.

 I just avoid certain op amps if using my shures now, although tbf, I pretty much exclusively use my esw9's with the d10 nowadays


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I havent got the ad744, but using my shure se530's and certain op amps, notably the stock ones, the d10 hisses like a mofo.
_

 

I have the UE5c's which are very similar to the se530's and I get zero hiss with the stock opamp/buffer setup. I'm surprised you're having a different experience. 

 Another trait of the stock setup is that it's a little bright and very open sounding, which helps alot with a warm IEM.


----------



## lhamp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the UE5c's which are very similar to the se530's and I get zero hiss with the stock opamp/buffer setup. I'm surprised you're having a different experience._

 

I have zero hiss with the stock opamp/buffer setup as well. In fact, I have zero hiss with every setup I've tried... except for the one setup that virtually everyone here thinks is best... AD744/EL8201.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lhamp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have zero hiss with the stock opamp/buffer setup as well. In fact, I have zero hiss with every setup I've tried... except for the one setup that virtually everyone here thinks is best... AD744/EL8201._

 

Really? The AD744OBCA/EL8201 does have noticeably less hiss with mine than the AD743/AD8616 that I previously used but changed because of hiss with all my custom IEM.


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really? The AD744OBCA/EL8201 does have noticeably less hiss with mine than the AD743/AD8616 that I previously used but changed because of hiss with all my custom IEM._

 

I agree, HeadphoneAddict, but the 744 hiss is still substantial compared to the zero hiss of other opamps. I hoped I'd find a buffer that might allow me the 744 SQ with much less hiss but, alas, that doesn't seem to be an answer.

 I'll end up having both 743 and 744 D10 topkits unused because of the hiss experienced with highly sensitive IEMs like the Livewires 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (Which is frustrating when I can hear the great 743 or 744 SQ in my D1s with no noticeable hiss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webbie64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree, HeadphoneAddict, but the 744 hiss is still substantial compared to the zero hiss of other opamps. I hoped I'd find a buffer that might allow me the 744 SQ with much less hiss but, alas, that doesn't seem to be an answer.

 I'll end up having both 743 and 744 D10 topkits unused because of the hiss experienced with highly sensitive IEMs like the Livewires 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Which is frustrating when I can hear the great 743 or 744 SQ in my D1s with no noticeable hiss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 

YGPM!


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the UE5c's which are very similar to the se530's and I get zero hiss with the stock opamp/buffer setup. I'm surprised you're having a different experience. 

 Another trait of the stock setup is that it's a little bright and very open sounding, which helps alot with a warm IEM._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lhamp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have zero hiss with the stock opamp/buffer setup as well. In fact, I have zero hiss with every setup I've tried... except for the one setup that virtually everyone here thinks is best... AD744/EL8201._

 

theres been a few se530 users who reported hiss with the stock op amp and buffers contained in this very thread.

 Also a guy over on misticriver who had the same issue, again with the se530.

 Its the extremely sensitive nature of the se530 which is why it picks up the hiss, and I suggest the sensitive nature of the earphones lhamp is using is "possibly" a contributing factor, although as explained, I can't comment on the topkit opamp itself as to wether it produces hiss with the se530.


----------



## lhamp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really? The AD744OBCA/EL8201 does have noticeably less hiss with mine than the AD743/AD8616 that I previously used but changed because of hiss with all my custom IEM._

 

Absolutely... I could use it as a white noise machine and fall asleep.

 That aside, I'm really starting to like the Class A OPA350/EL8201 combo.
 I'll post when I've had more time with it. But my initial impressions are that the separation I'm hearing is unlike anything I've heard (albeit, with my somewhat limited experience). It's like the music is totally deconstructed and then put back together, not as one piece, but as many individual pieces (if that makes any sense). There's a total clarity and spacing of instruments that's really stunning. Everything is more multi-dimensional.

 At first I was a little taken aback by what I was hearing... but after an hour and a half last night I really think this is a great combo. Sbulack was singing the praises of this combo a while back... I think he's right.

 And thanks Ron for all your help... you're the Man.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webbie64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll end up having both 743 and 744 D10 topkits unused because of the hiss experienced with highly sensitive IEMs like the Livewires 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Which is frustrating when I can hear the great 743 or 744 SQ in my D1s with no noticeable hiss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 


 I have the same problem...a 743 topkit that sounds great gathering dust...because I can't accept it's hiss with my IEM's.

 I really like the open and musical sound of the stock setup...but it doesn't have nearly as much detail (and a little less bass) than the 743/8616 combo.


----------



## ztsen

Me too. The 743 hiss til even my Denon can hear. So I fried it up=>spoilt. lol 

 I prefer:
 AD744OBCA/AD8616 for TF10
 OPA2350/AD8656 for UM3X


----------



## raymondu999

Hey guys. Earlier on today my heart broke when I dropped my D10. It was on the table and I accidentally snagged a cable (I don't remember which) and it fell to the ground, flat, landing on it's belly. so far everything seems to be working fine, but is there reason for me to worry? THanks!!


----------



## madwolf

The 1st of my Exotic series of mods 

 Buffers LME49600 
 This is the upgraded/clone of BUF637 






 Comes in TO220 style TO263. 

 This is build to be used mainly as buffers for headphone amps. 
 Gain is fixed at 1. So it would be very difficult to use for any other application. 

 This OP-AMP comes in 2 mode, BW at 110Mhz (Normal bandwidth) or 180Mhz (Wide Bandwidth fast mode). Initially I wanted a jumper so that I could easily switch between the 2 modes but due to the lack of space. I made 2 pair, One in each mode. 

 Doing a AB test with the EL8201, this sounded much more confident and open up the sound stage, The biggest and widest I heard. More body to mid as well. unfortunately it is slightly brighter but quicker as well. 

 However hard I tried, I have not found a way to fit this in the casing. 

EDIT ADDED
 I just realize that I have yet to optimized the LME49600 fully for the D10, I only connect one of the output to the D10, if I connect both the output the difference would be like going from the single bypass buffers to the double bypass buffers. The sound impression given above was for Single buffer, Normal mode. For this one OP-AMP there are 4 option to fit it on the D10 
 1) Single output, Normal 
 2) double output, Normal 
 3) Single output, wide bandwidth 
 4) Double output, wide bandwidth 

 But judging from the experience of the Single bypass, double bypass testing. the 2 real option should be the both double output ones. 

 EeeeeeRrrrrrr...... while writing this I realize there are another option. use 4 LME49600 as buffers. 
 2 for the left side and 2 for the right side. But this would be an overkill, D10 only have a voltage of about 4.5volts. Is there a need or ability to drive that much current with 4.5V. But this is Hi-Fi you never know. 


END of edit


 What is next ?




 This will take a leap of faith.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 1st of my Exotic series of mods 

 Buffers LME49600 
 This is the upgraded/clone of BUF637 






 Comes in TO220 style TO263. 

 This is build to be used mainly as buffers for headphone amps. 
 Gain is fixed at 1. So it would be very difficult to use for any other application. 

 This OP-AMP comes in 2 mode, BW at 110Mhz (Normal bandwidth) or 180Mhz (Wide Bandwidth fast mode). Initially I wanted a jumper so that I could easily switch between the 2 modes but due to the lack of space. I made 2 pair, One in each mode. 

 Doing a AB test with the EL8201, this sounded much more confident and open up the sound stage, The biggest and widest I heard. More body to mid as well. unfortunately it is slightly brighter but quicker as well. 

 However hard I tried, I have not found a way to fit this in the casing. 


 What is next ?




 This will take a leap of faith._

 

Next exotic mod will be to make a bigger case!!!


----------



## bakhtiar

*madwolf*. Great. You want to change the USB interface chipset (PCM2906). A very brave move 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Good luck my friend.


----------



## madwolf

It is more reckless than Brave. But if you hear and compare the difference between the USB and SPDIF option on the D10, the difference is arguable more than any op-amp or capacitor rolling, At least for the D10. This is especially true for the imaging.

 I just realize that for the LME49600, it is not fully optimize for the D10 still. 
 Currently I am only connecting the output of the op-amp to one of the PIN. But if I connect to both the difference should be like going from the single buffers to the double buffers. 




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*madwolf*. Great. You want to change the USB interface chipset (PCM2906). A very brave move 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Good luck my friend._


----------



## lhamp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lhamp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Absolutely... I could use it as a white noise machine and fall asleep.

 That aside, I'm really starting to like the Class A OPA350/EL8201 combo.
 I'll post when I've had more time with it. But my initial impressions are that the separation I'm hearing is unlike anything I've heard (albeit, with my somewhat limited experience). It's like the music is totally deconstructed and then put back together, not as one piece, but as many individual pieces (if that makes any sense). There's a total clarity and spacing of instruments that's really stunning. Everything is more multi-dimensional.

 At first I was a little taken aback by what I was hearing... but after an hour and a half last night I really think this is a great combo. Sbulack was singing the praises of this combo a while back... I think he's right._

 

I may have spoke too soon. The separation and clarity of this combo is undeniable.... But something is bugging me.... It may be a bit too bright for me. Not exactly sure at this point, but something doesn't seem right.

 The quest continues.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lhamp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may have spoke too soon. The separation and clarity of this combo is undeniable.... But something is bugging me.... It may be a bit too bright for me. Not exactly sure at this point, but something doesn't seem right.

 The quest continues._

 

Try the EL8201 Buffers/AD744 Opamp. With Ety ER4S/P, its unbright.


----------



## bakhtiar

*madwolf*

 I really appreciate if you can do a research how to minimize the noise floor from the USB interface. compared to total silent and clean with SPDIF. 

 My current setup, AD8352/AD8656

 TQ.


----------



## sbulack

It's the peak of the Summer slump for me. The heat, humidity and frequent, severe migraines brought on by the frequent storms (with their barometric pressure drops) have taken their full toll on me. And I've slumped into the following portable rig as the one that I'd rather listen to (even when at home) than any of the home rigs you see in my sig. And it's:
 Sony NWZS616F Digital Music Player (mp3, ...) -> Zynsonix Yev (Cardas silver wire) mini-to-mini -> D10 (OPA350's(CA)/EL8201) -> Yuin PK2 buds. I've also tried my TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid Amp (which is a little too warm and laid back for this rig) and my SR-71A Blackbird (which brings out the treble more than my summer-slumped ear really enjoys). There's just something about the spectral balance, spatial presentation and dynamic voicing of the various musical voices with the D10 that's just perfect in this rig for my summer listening.

 I've really enjoyed the Sony portable players since the first Walkman FM stereo radio's came out in the late 70's, through the Walkman tape players in the 80's and 90's and now the Walkman digital music player in the 00's. Somehow I by-passed the Sony CD players. I bought Panasonic and iRiver instead.

 My current Sony-sourced portable rig yields a combination of realistic-sounding musical voices, yet augmented with better-than-live sonic peaks. I've tried this same rig with the PK1 - and the sound is definitely more hi-fi (and less realistic). There's something kind of raw and unprocessed about the sound of this rig that really catches my ear as "spookily real". And yet, when voices hit peaks in their sounds, the sounds of the peaks come across as distortion-enhanced in ways that make them less realistic-sounding, but in the most enjoyable and ear-pleasing ways. The other day, I was at home listening while working, with my choice of any of my home rigs - and what was I choosing to listen to and enjoying more than anything? Yup, the Sony-Yev-D10-PK2 rig. Do I really think that it sounds better than any of my stationary rigs? Nope. I can go through the audiophile scorecard items, and rate most of them lower than those items on any of my stationary rigs. Yet, overall, in my ear's slumped, mid-summer state, the sound from this portable rig sounds the most compelling enjoyable. It's like really refreshing lemon ice for my ears. Anyhow, I thought I'd pass this rig idea along to you guys.

 My current 2nd favorite rig?:
 A Sony Walkman portable FM stereo radio (powered by 1 AAA Sanyo Eneloop Ultra-Low Discharge NiMH rechargeable) -> no amp -> Sony MDR-A34 (basically sports earbuds held in place by a thin, flimsy over-the-head plastic band). I really enjoy the analog sound of the FM stereo radio, and, combined with the particular reproduction of the MDR-A34 Sports-Buds - it just holds my ear for WAY longer than it should based on the audiophile scorecard ratings of the sound from it. This is my only analog source. All of my other sources DAC music from a digital form. There's something especially clean and invitingly open about the sound of this rig that keeps me coming back for more.

 I think, though, that when the lower temperatures and humidity of autumn allow me to re-solidify a bit from my current summer meltdown, I'll be more naturally reaching again for my nicer pieces of gear. But these summer rigs that I've listed above are very special and wonderful instruments for my listening now.


----------



## fcfathf

can d10 with original setting/opamp drive k701 well, or i need to do some opamp changeing thing?


----------



## bakhtiar

I just found the root cause of the high noise floor. It is the *charging circuit*. Temporary solution. Toggle the *charge* switch to off.


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fcfathf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can d10 with original setting/opamp drive k701 well, or i need to do some opamp changeing thing?_

 

I do not think so. The K701 sounds dull from the D10 in my ears. The only way my K701 can sing properly is when they are connected to a tube amp which has power enough to drive them properly.


----------



## denging

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How's the Rubycons' SQ?_

 

it delivers more authority in lower register than the stok NCC


----------



## denging

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Next exotic mod will be to make a bigger case!!!_

 

or just slide it in to a name-card box like this P3 FrankenHeron


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*madwolf*

 I really appreciate if you can do a research how to minimize the noise floor from the USB interface. compared to total silent and clean with SPDIF. 

 My current setup, AD8352/AD8656

 TQ._

 

The stock buffer is an AD8532 (not an AD708 or AD711 although the 708 and 711 appear on some of them). Did you mean to say 8532 when you typed 8352?


----------



## bakhtiar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The stock buffer is an AD8532 (not an AD708 or AD711 although the 708 and 711 appear on some of them). Did you mean to say 8532 when you typed 8352?_

 

Sorry, my mistake. I meant the stock buffer, AD8532. 

 TQ.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webbie64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree, HeadphoneAddict, but the 744 hiss is still substantial compared to the zero hiss of other opamps. I hoped I'd find a buffer that might allow me the 744 SQ with much less hiss but, alas, that doesn't seem to be an answer.

 I'll end up having both 743 and 744 D10 topkits unused because of the hiss experienced with highly sensitive IEMs like the Livewires 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Which is frustrating when I can hear the great 743 or 744 SQ in my D1s with no noticeable hiss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 

I find the same thing for the 744 top kit and ended up using the OPA2350 with my CM.

 May Ron send me same pm as well?


----------



## fuseboxx

Considering:

 * The stock opamps on the main socket and buffers
 * And the two pairs of opamps that come with the rolling kit

 What combination would provide the most power to drive headphones with?

 And what sound characteristics does this combination have?


----------



## madwolf

Most power would be the AD8656 in the buffers 
 You could try the rest for L/R to see which one you like best. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fuseboxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Considering:

 * The stock opamps on the main socket and buffers
 * And the two pairs of opamps that come with the rolling kit

 What combination would provide the most power to drive headphones with?

 And what sound characteristics does this combination have?_


----------



## twylight

Maxing out the D10 for iem use...Cost isnt really an object - I want the DAC to sound its best as well as amp section for iem use. um3x for now

 Any pointers? Its a brand new D10, 2 days shipped to Texas (thanks ibasso heh)...I have no hiss on the stock setup on low gain. Enough volume to damage my head - I run it on about 20-35% depending on the level of the music/loudness war.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I just wonder if I use the D10 with optical input, can I, in the same time, charge with USB?


----------



## Mediahound

Yes you can.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just wonder if I use the D10 with optical input, can I, in the same time, charge with USB?_


----------



## Lil' Knight

That's great! Thanks!


----------



## madwolf

The 2nd Exotic 

 ADA4899-1 -- It is the top 100 product by EDN for 2006 A great achievement for an OP-amp

 This should be the top of the range Low voltage Op-Amp from Analog Devices. 
 The pin out is different from the standard single op-amp, Like the first exotic there are different mode of operation. 

 1) It could be disable or power down to save power 
 2) Normal 
 3) Low input bias current
 For Audio we could try Normal and Low input bias 

 Look at a chose up picture of Chip, Note that there is a heat spreader at the underside of the the Chip. 






 How does this sound ? (Note initial impression less than 5 min testing, Normal mode)
 Very close to the 2*AD744 in OBCA mode but without the Hissing (silent even at high volume)
 The mid are mellow and sweet, There is a sense of creamy smoothness 
 I was surprise the the high are close to the AD8599 in terms of clarity, Very quick as well. Usually when something is mellow it is not clear. But this has both. Neutral sound. 


 Picture of the Chip in modified Brown Dog suited for the D10 





 To the right is 2*ADA4857-1. That is different from the standard single op-amp as well, Note the rework wires on the chips. But It did not make it to my exotic list of Op-amp for the D10. 

 How does the ADA4857 sound ? 
 Very sorry because I audition the ADA4899 just before this. Not comparable, but still very strong. It still beats OPA2350 (non class A, I do not have a class A OPA2350 as yet) slightly in the mid and is much clearer in the highs.

 Both are audition with AD8656 in the Buffers


After a second round of testing
 The ADA4857 is a very detail amp, I heard things I never heard before. I think plenty of people will like this especially people who like the UE, JH IEM rather than the Westone camp. If you like string instrument this is for you. The guitar in Eva Cassidy's "I know you by by heart" is strikingly life like. 

 For people whose primary interest is in woodwind instrument and vocal, ADA4899 is better.


----------



## bakhtiar

Thank you *madwolf*.

 After reading about op-amps, I am wondering why there are SO MANY op-amps? I am puzzled too, why op-amps change sound signature. The basic function of op-amp is to amplify input signal without any signal changes. So, there are many ultra low-noise op-amps which able operates up several hundred MHz, but, why we still can hear the differences just with our ears? 

 Mmm.. or did I missed something? 

 Thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you *madwolf*.

 After reading about op-amps, I am wondering why there are SO MANY op-amps? I am puzzled too, why op-amps change sound signature. The basic function of op-amp is to amplify input signal without any signal changes. So, there are many ultra low-noise op-amps which able operates up several hundred MHz, but, why we still can hear the differences just with our ears? 

 Mmm.. or did I missed something? 

 Thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

A very good question! I think the answer partly lies in the fact that each opamp is made up of perhaps 50 or more transistors as well as many capacitors and inductors, all of which are built into the silicon architecture of the opamp. 

 All of these internal components interact to create inductance, resistance, and capacitance to some degree or another. As these physical properties interact, the result affects the output properties of the opamp, and as a result, each one sounds slightly different. 

 Also, much of the use of opamps in industrial applications does not involve such a complex mix of frequencies, often only one frequency at a time might be need to be amplified. 

 If we only played one individual sinewave of a given frequency thru the opamp, one device would be virtually indistinguishable from the other, but due to the very complex mix of frequencies and harmonics that compose music, the interaction of all of the previously mentioned electrical factors result in phase changes as well as frequency changes. Much like the interaction of room size, dimension, and acoustical hardness or softness affects the sound from speakers

 If a manufacturer was able, somehow, to create a line of devices that were perfectly linear when passing a complex mix of frequencies, they would all sound exactly alike, as the proverbial straight wire with gain! 

 Of course, this is the goal of all the manufacturers who designate their opamps as suitable for audio applications, but as we all know, some are more successful than others.


----------



## bakhtiar

Thank you for the explanation. Now I understood why, there are many varieties of op-amps. 

 There are several amplier types/classes, and currently very interested with Class-D amp. It will nice if I can get the class-D amp out from D10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 example LM4667.. Output : 1.3W (mono) ... good for low sensitivity headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good as buffer, I think.

http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM4667.html

 But... the FR graph shows, it is not quite up to audiophile's standard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.





 or
http://www.analog.com/en/audiovideo-...cts/index.html

 SSM2315 or SSM2301 seem to be nice


----------



## fuseboxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most power would be the AD8656 in the buffers 
 You could try the rest for L/R to see which one you like best._

 

great, thanks!


----------



## f00fighters

can someone tell me the best LR/BUFFER setup to sound the most like the Grado RA1?? Is that even possible? I don't care if I have to buy additional OPamps from HiFlight. I currently have ADA4841 as my LR, and 8656 as my two buffers. I'm basically just using what came in the kit.


----------



## f00fighters

What I want from my D10:

 I want the vocals to be up front and personal with such clarity and detail that it gives me the chills. I would like to have a large sound stage, but I want it to be like I'm standing in front of the band, not in a concert hall. I want that upfront and personal sound, but with a large sound stage, if that's possible. I want that intimate clarity and detail, where I can hear and feel the artist take a breath before a verse. You get the idea. 

 My problems with the stock configuration of the D10 - I thought the bass was full, but it was diluting some of the treble/highs/mids, and kind of a distant sound stage, which I do not like. Again, I want such great detail and clarity, that it gives you the feeling that you standing right in front of the band or that you're playing in the band. I am using my Apple Mac Pro tower as my primary source, with lossless music through my optical port, with my Grado SR325is headphones. Do you have any idea what a grado RA1 amp sounds like? I heard it is well suited for the Grado as well. Anyway, please give me suggestions.
 __________________


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *f00fighters* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I want from my D10:

 I want the vocals to be up front and personal with such clarity and detail that it gives me the chills. I would like to have a large sound stage, but I want it to be like I'm standing in front of the band, not in a concert hall. I want that upfront and personal sound, but with a large sound stage, if that's possible. I want that intimate clarity and detail, where I can hear and feel the artist take a breath before a verse. You get the idea. 

 My problems with the stock configuration of the D10 - I thought the bass was full, but it was diluting some of the treble/highs/mids, and kind of a distant sound stage, which I do not like. Again, I want such great detail and clarity, that it gives you the feeling that you standing right in front of the band or that you're playing in the band. I am using my Apple Mac Pro tower as my primary source, with lossless music through my optical port, with my Grado SR325is headphones. Do you have any idea what a grado RA1 amp sounds like? I heard it is well suited for the Grado as well. Anyway, please give me suggestions.
 ___________________

 

SR-325i may not be the right phones for you, but you could get a head-direct EF1 or EF2 to feed the D10 DAC into, and that would help bring the mids forward and warm them up without killing the soundstage. A millett hybrid would also be a good choice, or a Woo WA6 with a nice Amperex GZ34 rectifier.


----------



## f00fighters

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SR-325i may not be the right phones for you, but you could get a head-direct EF1 or EF2 to feed the D10 DAC into, and that would help bring the mids forward and warm them up without killing the soundstage. A millett hybrid would also be a good choice, or a Woo WA6 with a nice Amperex GZ34 rectifier._

 

I love the 325is's. They are all about detail, and clarity, and normally give that up-front and personal with the music is the typical grado signature. I was looking for an opamp configuration that would enhance the experience. I had this experience, sort of, with the C&C XO portable amp. But then, at higher volumes, it would get too grainy, and the sound stage wasn't as wide as the d10. I'm guessing that maybe, that's exactly what the Grado RA1 did, but i'm not sure.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *f00fighters* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love the 325is's. They are all about detail, and clarity, and normally give that up-front and personal with the music is the typical grado signature. I was looking for an opamp configuration that would enhance the experience. I had this experience, sort of, with the C&C XO portable amp. But then, at higher volumes, it would get too grainy, and the sound stage wasn't as wide as the d10. I'm guessing that maybe, that's exactly what the Grado RA1 did, but i'm not sure._

 

I just can't remember what opamp combo will make the D10 more forward or full in the mids than stock. I haven't rolled opamps in a while. An LM6172 might do the trick, but I gave away my two pairs when I sold my D2 Viper and iBasso D1.

 Anyone else?


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *f00fighters* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I want from my D10:

 I want the vocals to be up front and personal with such clarity and detail that it gives me the chills. I would like to have a large sound stage, but I want it to be like I'm standing in front of the band, not in a concert hall. I want that upfront and personal sound, but with a large sound stage, if that's possible. I want that intimate clarity and detail, where I can hear and feel the artist take a breath before a verse. You get the idea. 
_

 

....I want a girl with a mind like a diamond · I want a girl who knows what's best · I want a girl with shoes that cut and eyes that burn like cigarettes.....







 To my ears, the AD743 with AD8616 buffers sounded much more like that than the stock configuration.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_....I want a girl with a mind like a diamond · I want a girl who knows what's best · I want a girl with shoes that cut and eyes that burn like cigarettes.....






 To my ears, the AD743 with AD8616 buffers sounded much more like that than the stock configuration._

 

The rest of the song lyrics: Mustang Forums at StangNet - View Single Post - I want a girl with a mind like a diamond

 That's the theme song to TV show Chuck as well, right? Sounds great with my D10 and JH13pro, with AD744OBCA/EL8201.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's the theme song to TV show Chuck as well, right? Sounds great with my D10 and JH13pro, with AD744OBCA/EL8201._

 

Yup. It's one of a couple Cake songs I've used for years as reference tracks when comparing headphones. Sounds great on my D10/RS-1's even with the stock configuration.


----------



## twylight

Alrighty I got my 744 OBCA/8616 hiflight kit (thanks again ron!)


 This smokes all of the stock opamps hard. I had a 743 set I had rolled in but it hissed a good bit with the um3x...

 What a major upgrade...thanks to all on headfi for all the rolling an impression so those of us late to the game can get some great options.

 Must...resist...iem...upgrade....

 Hiss is there a touch, but you wouldn't be able to hear it even in quiet passages - its 95% percent less than the 743. My D10 is finished and sounding awesome.


----------



## adiZero

Hi guy's
 I am not sure if this is the right place to post this question, but anyhow.

 This might be a strange question..

 I just sold my Project Headbox mkii that I used for my turntable headphone rig. So, now I don't have a headphone amp for my turntable....My combined DAC/AMP has no analog inputs. 

 I am thinking about buying the D10, to use both as part of a portable rig and in a laptop rig. My question is further on; would it be okey to use D10 as part of a turntable rig? My headphones are easily driven so it should be okey, or?? The D10 got an aux in, so I was thinking about using that.

 BTW, my turntable rig is as follows:
 Rega Planar 2 - Goldring 1012 GX - Cambridge 640p


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adiZero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guy's
 I am not sure if this is the right place to post this question, but anyhow.

 This might be a strange question..

 I just sold my Project Headbox mkii that I used for my turntable headphone rig. So, now I don't have a headphone amp for my turntable....My combined DAC/AMP has no analog inputs. 

 I am thinking about buying the D10, to use both as part of a portable rig and in a laptop rig. My question is further on; would it be okey to use D10 as part of a turntable rig? My headphones are easily driven so it should be okey, or?? The D10 got an aux in, so I was thinking about using that.

 BTW, my turntable rig is as follows:
 Rega Planar 2 - Goldring 1012 GX - Cambridge 640p_

 

You will probably still need a phono cartridge pre-amp. Are you using the 640p as the phono pre-amp?


----------



## adiZero

I already have a phono pre-amp (the cambridge 640p), only need a headphone amp.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adiZero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I already have a phono pre-amp (the cambridge 640p), only need a headphone amp._

 

In that case, I think the D10 would work very well for you, providing many listening options.


----------



## f00fighters

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_....I want a girl with a mind like a diamond · I want a girl who knows what's best · I want a girl with shoes that cut and eyes that burn like cigarettes.....






 To my ears, the AD743 with AD8616 buffers sounded much more like that than the stock configuration._

 


 I think hiflight is sending me TLE2142 and LT1358 are my LRs with super dummy buffers

 He is also sending me a pair of AAD8616, and possibly the opa2350.

 Which one of those configs do you think will most likely suit my description?


----------



## oxophone

I am planning to experiment with Amp rolling on my D10.

*Where can I buy various types of Opamps*? can anyone kindly direct me to a few online stores in the USA/UK/EU? 

 Thanks.


----------



## oxophone

sorry, double post.


----------



## oxophone

sorry again.


----------



## f00fighters

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oxophone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am planning to experiment with Amp rolling on my D10.

*Where can I buy various types of Opamps*? can anyone kindly direct me to a few online stores in the USA/UK/EU? 

 Thanks._

 

talk to "hiflight" on the forums here or send him a PM. He is quite knowledgeable on the various opamp setups. He's not an online store, but he'll hook you up with pretty good prices.


----------



## f00fighters

Can someone comment on what d10 opamp configuration goes best with the Grado 325i's. Something that simply enhances the grado signature, but does not change it completely. I felt that the d10 stock configuration completely changed the Grado signature of intimacy, clarity, and detail. The sound stage is enhanced greatly, but the vocals seem a bit airy and it gives me that concert hall sound as opposed to the upfront sound. 

 I used the same stock LR, 45something, and I used it with the dummy buffers. From all the different combinations I discovered that as long as I used the dummies as buffers, the sound is more natural although not intimate enough but close, and the sound stage is somewhat compromised, and I can't exactly put my finger on it, but I just wasn't too impressed. But it's what I've settled on for the time-being, until those opamps arrive from HiFlight.

 Like I said before, HiFlight is sending me TLE2142 and LT1358 as my LRs with super dummy buffers, along with an additional pair of 8616's, and an opa2350. So I have some variety to play with. I was curious to know if anyone else has played around with these, and if so, has anyone tried these with the grado 325i's? I am still waiting for my opamps to arrive in the mail. I am waiting in anticipation.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oxophone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am planning to experiment with Amp rolling on my D10.

*Where can I buy various types of Opamps*? can anyone kindly direct me to a few online stores in the USA/UK/EU? 

 Thanks._

 

When I want to buy opamps to use in L/R or as buffers in my D10, I get them from HiFlight (sometimes tweaked by him for extra performance, such as biased into Class A) and always mounted on adapters (when needed) which fit the D10 sockets (electronically and spatially).

 To answer the question as generally as it was asked, though, when I want to buy opamps, I almost always get them from digikey.
DigiKey Corp. | Electronic Components Distributor | United States Home Page
 I search their site for the opamp name (such as EL8201), and up comes a page listing all of the specific variants of the EL8201 opamp they sell.


----------



## madwolf

A small wallet warning, Rolling Op-Amp could me more expensive than the AMP it self. 

 Definitely for my case. I think I have spend more then double on OP-AMP and other upgrades than the AMP itself. And I get part and solder myself. 

 But it is very addictive, Once you start you just need to have the next one to test. 
 Capacitors are expensive as well, I am working rolling Capacitors next.


----------



## theory_87

Anyone found way to lower the floor noise? I tried adding the UE attenuator and it help... but the bass came across distorted and lack of vol. I prefer internal mod. As of now, all i can think of is caps rolling. But from my memory, there is not much different from the stock to my current panasonic am caps.


----------



## pekingduck

Hi guys,

 I bought a pair of HD600 recently. As much as I enjoy my setup (Macbook > Airport Express > D10 > Minibox-E+ > HD600), I really think the HD600 can do better especially in the bass department.

 Now I am thinking about buying a better amp to do the HD600 justice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am considering i) Lehmann BCL or ii) Graham Slee SOLO.

 My question is: how good is the DAC in the D10? Would it be the weakest link in the system? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also I am curious about the D10 compared to other more expensive DACs such as the Benchmark DAC1 or the Lavry DA10/11. Is the difference night and day?

 I heard the amps in DAC1/DA10/DA11 have good synergy with the HD600 so in case the D10 is not good enough I could just grab one of these and be done with it.

 I listen to classical music (mainly orchestral work) and some classic rock, if that matters.

 Cheers


----------



## twylight

well my MHDT Havana spanks the D10 dac - but the D10 spanks most other things like soundcards


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pekingduck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 I bought a pair of HD600 recently. As much as I enjoy my setup (Macbook > Airport Express > D10 > Minibox-E+ > HD600), I really think the HD600 can do better especially in the bass department.

 Now I am thinking about buying a better amp to do the HD600 justice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am considering i) Lehmann BCL or ii) Graham Slee SOLO.

 My question is: how good is the DAC in the D10? Would it be the weakest link in the system? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also I am curious about the D10 compared to other more expensive DACs such as the Benchmark DAC1 or the Lavry DA10/11. Is the difference night and day?

 I heard the amps in DAC1/DA10/DA11 have good synergy with the HD600 so in case the D10 is not good enough I could just grab one of these and be done with it.

 I listen to classical music (mainly orchestral work) and some classic rock, if that matters.

 Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The Solo was very good with my HD600, and not as good with my HD800, D2000 and RS-1 or HF-2 as it tended to be a little bright with the others. I wrote about it in mrarroyo's Solo thread. The Solo will beat the D10 or Apogee mini-DAC headphone out with HD600, but I don't know about the Lavry which IS good with ATH-A900 and Denon (didn't try HD600 with it when a friend brought one over).

 I think the D10 optical DAC is about as good as the Headroom Micro DAC and just a little behind the Apogee mini-DAC and PS Audio Digital Link III - the others are better but I'm not sure I could say they "kill" it. D10 Optical is also very close to the Pico DAC-only via USB which is great. It takes an extended listening session to hear the Pico pass up the D10 optical, and sometimes I still prefer to connect the D10's headphone out to a bigger amp and not the line out which has a lower slightly less dynamic output level. So, I don't think optical will hold you back too much, but the USB DAC of the D10 is below the USB DAC of the Pico, Apogee and PS Audio; and if you use USB only then you may eventually want an upgrade. Still, the D10 USB section is a little better than the Micro DAC USB or 3MOVE, Predator and XM5 DAC, etc.


----------



## jamato8

I have been using some 96khz flac files on the iRiver and D10 with some great sound. Very full and analog like. I am listening to some Mozart right now and the violins are sweet but with the right amount of bite and dynamics.


----------



## f00fighters

This is going to sound psychotic... but I've just been listening to my Grado SR325is's completely unamped plugged into my mini-stereo port on my Mac Pro tower, and I actually prefer that sound to the D10. It just sounds more realistic and life like and over all natural. I think the D10 balances too much which makes things a bit more neutral. My ears are playing mind games with me.

 And my 325is's have never been plugged directly into my iPhone 3GS, unamped before, until now. I like that too. I can't say the same for my other headphones, though.


----------



## pekingduck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *twylight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well my MHDT Havana spanks the D10 dac - but the D10 spanks most other things like soundcards_

 

For almost three times the price it better be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Solo was very good with my HD600, and not as good with my HD800, D2000 and RS-1 or HF-2 as it tended to be a little bright with the others. I wrote about it in mrarroyo's Solo thread. The Solo will beat the D10 or Apogee mini-DAC headphone out with HD600, but I don't know about the Lavry which IS good with ATH-A900 and Denon (didn't try HD600 with it when a friend brought one over).

 I think the D10 optical DAC is about as good as the Headroom Micro DAC and just a little behind the Apogee mini-DAC and PS Audio Digital Link III - the others are better but I'm not sure I could say they "kill" it. D10 Optical is also very close to the Pico DAC-only via USB which is great. It takes an extended listening session to hear the Pico pass up the D10 optical, and sometimes I still prefer to connect the D10's headphone out to a bigger amp and not the line out which has a lower slightly less dynamic output level. So, I don't think optical will hold you back too much, but the USB DAC of the D10 is below the USB DAC of the Pico, Apogee and PS Audio; and if you use USB only then you may eventually want an upgrade. Still, the D10 USB section is a little better than the Micro DAC USB or 3MOVE, Predator and XM5 DAC, etc._

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation! I'll definitely be using the optical input of the D10 instead of USB (source = airport express). I hope I'll have a chance to audition some better DACs soon.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been using some 96khz flac files on the iRiver and D10 with some great sound. Very full and analog like. I am listening to some Mozart right now and the violins are sweet but with the right amount of bite and dynamics._

 

Yep.. it's amazing the D10 can produce such wonderful sound for its size


----------



## oxophone

Help required from iriver h140/120 users and owners of D10. 

 When I connect the digital line out (mini) of the Iriver h140 (rockboxed, playing flac) or h120 (original factory setting, playing mp3 ) to Ibasso D10's toslink via sys concept cable , I do not get any signal !!

 However, it works perfectly when I connect Ibasso D10's toslink with my macbook's line out (mini digital) via the same cable. so, there's no problem with the cable or Ibasso. 

 How does one get sound out of H140's line out ? what am I doing wrong? 

 Please help. thanks.


----------



## oxophone

double post, sorry.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oxophone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Help required from iriver h140/120 users and owners of D10. 

 When I connect the digital line out (mini) of the Iriver h140 (rockboxed, playing flac) or h120 (original factory setting, playing mp3 ) to Ibasso D10's toslink via sys concept cable , I do not get any signal !!

 However, it works perfectly when I connect Ibasso D10's toslink with my macbook's line out (mini digital) via the same cable. so, there's no problem with the cable or Ibasso. 

 How does one get sound out of H140's line out ? what am I doing wrong? 

 Please help. thanks._

 

Do you have the optical "out" turn on, on the iRiver? You have to go into the menu and turn on the optical. You can verify if the optical is on with the iRiver by having it playing and look at an angle, not directly, at the opitical out of the iRiver. It should be the red transmission signal (light).

 The Line out is either by mini or if the optical is turned on, with the mini toslink cable.


----------



## oxophone

Thanks a lot, John. 

 Did find the optical out "ON/OFF" option on both Rockbox and Iriver, and the red light glowed - a nice indicator. And now works like a charm. 

 now, H140 and D10 tell me that some of the vinyl transfers and conversion to flac have been pretty awful, with lots of clicks and pops - overall a noisy floor.


----------



## oxophone

sorry , double post.

 why does head-fi keep doing this?


----------



## Viper2005

Ok so I got a pack of op amps from HiFlight, and I really prefer the OPA2228 + 8656 buffers for my Shure 840's... very crisp highs, almost grado-like in clarity and forwardness. I think this combination makes up for the 840's rolloff of the high frequences. Bass is quicker too I notice, and has more 'punch' with Michael Jackson tracks for example, than with my previous opamp combination.
 I will try this new combination out for a few days before I pass judgement on it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also tried the topkit with the 840, and the results are not satisfactory so far.. I can hear audible hiss with this combination, and getting some light distortions on the high end for some reason.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Viper2005* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok so I got a pack of op amps from HiFlight, and I really prefer the OPA2228 + 8656 buffers for my Shure 840's... very crisp highs, almost grado-like in clarity. I think this combination makes up for the 840's rolloff of the high frequences. Bass is quicker too I notice, and has more 'punch' with Michael Jackson tracks for example.
 I will try this combination out for a few days before I pass judgement on it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's also a halfway decent opamp combo for the Senn IE8, but a little brighter with my other phones where I don't like it as much.


----------



## jelt2359

Started separate thread


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jelt2359* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Started separate thread_

 

What, huh?


----------



## lhamp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *f00fighters* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Like I said before, HiFlight is sending me TLE2142 and LT1358 as my LRs with super dummy buffers, along with an additional pair of 8616's, and an opa2350. So I have some variety to play with. I was curious to know if anyone else has played around with these, and if so, has anyone tried these with the grado 325i's? I am still waiting for my opamps to arrive in the mail. I am waiting in anticipation._

 

f00... have you tried the TLE2142 yet? I've got to tell you... I think this coupled with the dummy buffers may be the winner. I've tried lots of configurations...after just a few minutes of listening (obviously I've got to log in some serious time) I think this combo may be it for me. Incredibly smooth/musical, yet incredibly detailed and with great separation. Curious to hear what you think.

 BTW... I'm using um3x with um56 tips.... I've found that with the um3x the AD744/EL8201 combo produces FAR too much hiss. Others hear no hiss at all so I'm assuming it's my IEM's.... as I posted earlier, this isn't subtle... it literally sounds like a white noise machine. No hiss at all with the TLE2142 (or any other opamps I've tried, for that matter).


----------



## jelt2359

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What, huh?_

 

Oh oops

 I asked a qn abt how the D10 compared to the IQube V2, but decided that was better off as a separate thread..


----------



## pompon

I got the D10 recently and I am completely happy with the unit.

 I am using Denon D5000 with it and it's very good. I use them for work because they closed.
 I tried my HD650 Equinox recabled (very good). It's my preferred headphone BTW.
 I tried my HD800 (a bit too bright for my tastes). I only like HD800 on my tube amp ... 

 I found the unit about as good as a good soundcard. My X-Meridian with lm4562 opamp is better but not by a far margin. I prefer the X-Meridian over the STX btw. The D10 side to side with Essence STX will be probably pretty close. I have a good friend with a STX ... will be able to do easy test to test that.

 No complain at all for the soundstage (width and depth). Just the mid-range is a bit blurred and not detached enough from the background. The highs are crisp and probably need to be softened a bit (but with the burn-in will fix that I am sure). The bass is very strong and depth.

 I don't like music in my face ... I like it laid back but I want to hear the signer detached from the background (a step ahead).

 HD800 for example, is too much in my face, D5000 don't exhibit detached vocal from the background, HD650 is perfect position for my taste.

 I tested iphone with the D10 ... it's good but not match using computer with the DAC section in the D10.

 I was thinking P-51 ... but it's more expansive and don't have any DAC.

 D10 is a BIG step over a in-board PC soundcard or iphone / iPod touch.
 I tried ipod + d10 using a el-cheapo headphone (in ear). I hear improvement for sure. No need use 500$ headphone to be happy. ... 

 But my suggestion, if you don't have already a good headphone, it's the first thing to buy. Once you have good headphone, add external amp.


----------



## pompon

Duplicate


----------



## Papa Sun

Fellows!

 I gave the infamous "Toslink adapter interconnect" DIY hack a try, as outlined here:http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5655128-post1981.html

 I followed Viator36's advice keenly (thanks for a great tuorial, btw!), and all went absolutely dandy, up until the point where i was about to join the two cut-off parts.

 Before glueing, I did a little test, connected the H120 and the D10 and started to play some music. With the cable tips in the copper tube, but the plastic parts un-joined, a slight bit apart, all worked very well. The tube seems to keep everything perfectly aligned. Alas, as soon as I started pressing the parts together, connection was lost. Tested in different angles, jiggling the bits around, but to no avail; as soon I start pressing (gently), no more signal.

 I have an H120 without any kind of cover, rubber-banded to the D10 – the distance between the optical mini out and the toslink in is thus ~25mm center-to-center. It seems that this distance is too short, the little pieces of cable inside the adapter parts get bent too much when the parts are pressed together. It does indeed take some force to get them to join... 

 Am I doing something wrong here? :-/ Has any of you H120+D10 users had any success with this? I understand Viator36's original creation had a slightly longer distance, because of the casing on the H120.

 Any input, ideas, thoughts?


----------



## wolfen68

Even though I've traveled with my H140/D10 rig several times before, I had some problems earlier this week at two different airports.... 

 After an extended x-ray inspection, a TSA supervisor was called in both times to review the item, and both times they swiped it for explosives residue. Once, I was also asked to demonstrate the function of the item. 

 Ultimately, they let me through, but it took at least 10 minutes longer than usual. I may have to disassemble the rig prior to TSA inspection, or leave the D10 at home from now on if this continues 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even though I've traveled with my H140/D10 rig several times before, I had some problems earlier this week at two different airports.... 

 After an extended x-ray inspection, a TSA supervisor was called in both times to review the item, and both times they swiped it for explosives residue. Once, I was also asked to demonstrate the function of the item. 

 Ultimately, they let me through, but it took at least 10 minutes longer than usual. I may have to disassemble the rig prior to TSA inspection, or leave the D10 at home from now on if this continues 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Several of us have posted about near body cavity searches after not taking apart our iPod/amp rigs before passing through TSA screening, including me last December.


----------



## madwolf

Was looking at the iQube V2, it comes with USB connection and a Class D amplifier, The D10 will not be able to use Class D amp as it is. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bakhtiar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for the explanation. Now I understood why, there are many varieties of op-amps. 

 There are several amplier types/classes, and currently very interested with Class-D amp. It will nice if I can get the class-D amp out from D10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 example LM4667.. Output : 1.3W (mono) ... good for low sensitivity headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good as buffer, I think.

LM4667 - Filterless High Efficiency 1.3W Switching Audio Amplifier

 But... the FR graph shows, it is not quite up to audiophile's standard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.





 or
Analog Devices: Audio Amplifiers :: Audio/Video Products

 SSM2315 or SSM2301 seem to be nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## bakhtiar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was looking at the iQube V2, it comes with USB connection and a Class D amplifier, The D10 will not be able to use Class D amp as it is._

 

Thank you for the clarification. 
 Current D10 already offers more than what I need right now. Well, I still can listened to Class D (digital) amp, from my X1000 Walkman's S-Master headphone out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## qusp

well I sent my D10 back for warranty service today. first the line-out went, second the HP out was a little sketchy sometimes and then finally the optical (though may have been an issue with my cable. so i understand they are using new type of minijacks and new optical. I hope they are more reliable. seeing the D10 only has 1 year warrant, it would be due to go in again just before the end of that if they are the same. i wish they made it with better parts. its one thing to have great sound and it does, but I would pay a premium for not having to worry about it breaking.


----------



## bakhtiar

I wish I can send my D10 for the newer parts, even it is still working fine


----------



## iriverdude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well I sent my D10 back for warranty service today. first the line-out went, second the HP out was a little sketchy sometimes and then finally the optical (though may have been an issue with my cable. so i understand they are using new type of minijacks and new optical. I hope they are more reliable. seeing the D10 only has 1 year warrant, it would be due to go in again just before the end of that if they are the same. i wish they made it with better parts. its one thing to have great sound and it does, but I would pay a premium for not having to worry about it breaking._

 

Wonder if the jack flexing is causing solder points to break away? Although PCB mounted jacks are lower profile, they need to be fixed to the plating otherwise that'll happen. Panel mounted jacks will need cable going from them to PCB but at least when cables are inserted, all force is going to the plate, not down leveraging the surface mounted jacks back slightly. If the panel screws are slightly loose it'll fail quickly.


----------



## jamato8

I got one of the first D10's and of course it has original parts with day in and day out use with many road trips and bike trips and drops and it still works flawlessly. Hopefully many others will get the same service. I am glad to see they are always looking at little ways to improve, which is true of most manufactures that care about quality.


----------



## foreverfi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I'm understanding correctly...there is a DAC only option according to the OP.

 If that's true...it will be a hard choice whether to get a DAC only or DAC/Amp combo. I'm after a different DAC for my H140 in the worst way.

 Edit: Hey...those case dimensions are pretty small!_

 


 My suggestion is to pick the DAC/amp combo, for the price difference is small and you will have two functions for using in case needed.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got one of the first D10's and of course it has original parts with day in and day out use with many road trips and bike trips and drops and it still works flawlessly. Hopefully many others will get the same service. I am glad to see they are always looking at little ways to improve, which is true of most manufactures that care about quality._

 

john, I know you are involved with the development team as an advisor with ibasso, but these jack problems are/were not 'little ways to improve' they replaced the jacks they were using as a response to many people having problems with them. there were even a couple of threads started specifically relating to this problem. and several people who had the problem within a very short time of owning the amp. i'm glad yours is still going strong, but for many people this is not the case. I wouldnt go as far as saying its a common problem, but its certainly not uncommon. kudos to ibasso for being willing to try to fix the problem, in the end it will work out cheaper for them as well.

 looking forward to the D10's return; I put off modding it in case they wanted to replace the amp wholesale. I forgot to replace the stock opamps too stupidly, so I hope they realize this. seems the ibasso server is blacklisted by my internet provider and many of my emails get bounced back. keen to get the blackgates in there when they get it back to me, so I guess my warranty will be void anyway ;P


----------



## adiZero

I recieved my D10 earlier this week. So far I will actually say it is a great amp/dac for it's SIZE but not nessearly for its PRICE. But, time will show.

 I had hoped it would sound more analog and with a little bit more power. 

 So over to my question; any need to start changing the opamps or the dummy buffers included in the package??


----------



## jamato8

Change is up to you. I like the stock setup but I also believe it needs a few hundred hours of run time to smooth out and for bass to totally come in. Then maybe I would play with the opamps because you would have a handle on the sound.


----------



## adiZero

Yes, I guess Burn-in will help.The D10 sounds good, don't misunderstand me, but I hope it will improve further....


----------



## HiFlight

I agree totally with Jamato! Use your D10 stock for enough hours to allow yourself to become familiar with the native sound as well as to give your device enough time to fully mature.


----------



## B0b

Guys, I'm considering to buy a D10, but could you first have a look at my question here?
 Basically, does a good soundcard (such an ASUS Xonar D2X) alone would be better than the D10?


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Could someone please give me a link to buy a good coaxial cable for the ibasso d10? If its possible a coaxial that terminates into a mini plug... or please post up a few pics of how the ibasso d10 looks with the coaxial cable. 
 Thanks


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

opps! deleted double post


----------



## oxophone

try Sys Concept : Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more


----------



## B0b

I just ordered mine, guys.
 I'm now wondering what setup would be better, and why:

 1. Asus Xonar D2X Coaxial >> D10 >> HD595
 2. Motherboard USB >> D10 >> HD595
 3. Motherboard optical input >> D10 >> HD595

 From what I understand, optical is better than USB, but using USB would make the D10 act as a soundcard (and optical would not). That's right?

 Thanks.


----------



## HiFlight

Optical input and Coax inputs theoretically provide a higher audio quality than USB. Whether you will be able to hear the difference is a question that only you will be able to answer.


----------



## HiFlight

duplicate


----------



## Reiniku

I've been looking at the D10 for a bit of time now and I'm trying to decide whether it's worth my purchase. I posted a thread on the Computer Source forums (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/lo...ceiver-442696/) and it seems like something along the lines of the D10 would be my ideal. 

 I plan on keeping my HD555's, Phonak PFE's, SR60's, and purchasing a pair of DT880's or K701's to have something I like to think as a pretty well rounded entry level set. Will the D10 pair well with all of these using the DAC/Amp combination? Thanks for your time.


----------



## qusp

I find coax to provide better air and detail when compared to optical and USB.

 Reinku: I think other headphones will perform better than K701 with D10, I dont feel the D10 has quite enough drive to get good bass performance out of them.

 great little dac though and good value for money too IMO


----------



## Reiniku

Should I be more inclined to get the DT880 if I plan on pairing with the D10 or would they also fall into the same category?


----------



## qusp

depends on which version, the 250 ohms might be a bit much, will be driven ok, but you are better off using more efficient headphones with portables IMO. only portable i've heard that can drive these type of cans is my Lisa III and even then they could be powered better. the ibasso OEM amp will have enough power, but no dac.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oxophone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_try Sys Concept : Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more_

 

thanks! I see the fiber optic cable connector but I don't see the coaxial connector... and another thing... on the ibasso instructions paper it comes with, it says the ibasso usually takes only 6 hours to charge. Under what voltage? On the adapter plug it comes with it says input:ac100v-240v 5060hz/0.1a An from what I understand a friend of mine in korea said that their voltage there is 240v. I know we don't do 240v in the Us....Because I have been charging it for the last day and it isn't charging for very long. Got any solutions?


----------



## rebski

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hawaiiancerveza* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks! I see the fiber optic cable connector but I don't see the coaxial connector... and another thing... on the ibasso instructions paper it comes with, it says the ibasso usually takes only 6 hours to charge. Under what voltage? On the adapter plug it comes with it says input:ac100v-240v 5060hz/0.1a An from what I understand a friend of mine in korea said that their voltage there is 240v. I know we don't do 240v in the Us....Because I have been charging it for the last day and it isn't charging for very long. Got any solutions?_

 

My solution is to use one of these
shop.brando.com
 It also charges my iRiver H140, Sansa Clip, Nokia N800, iPhone, Fiio E5. Up to 5 items at the same time and all through the use of 1 wall outlet. It also includes swappable travel adapters.


----------



## Reiniku

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_depends on which version, the 250 ohms might be a bit much, will be driven ok, but you are better off using more efficient headphones with portables IMO. only portable i've heard that can drive these type of cans is my Lisa III and even then they could be powered better. the ibasso OEM amp will have enough power, but no dac._

 

Ahhh, I was hoping someone would at least lie to me so I could just finally buy this thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Are there any desktop dac/amps under $400 that'll do the job for me then? HD555, Phonak PFE, SR60, DT880. Wrong place to ask probably, I'll post in the desktop amp section.

 Edit: The idea of having the D10 seems to be growing on me quite a bit. I hear that the D10's DAC is pretty damn good for the price and I was wondering if a D10 as a DAC + something like a Little Dot MKIII would be a suitable solution for something like the DT880's. Then using the D10 by itself for portable use or even with the other cans. I was also looking at the Corda Cantate.2.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rebski* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My solution is to use one of these
shop.brando.com
 It also charges my iRiver H140, Sansa Clip, Nokia N800, iPhone, Fiio E5. Up to 5 items at the same time and all through the use of 1 wall outlet. It also includes swappable travel adapters._

 

Thanks for the help Rebski. Only one problem...lol we were banned from receiving via UPSP...lol my mother in-laws dog attacked the mailman. I don't see any options for sending.


----------



## rebski

When I bought mine from Brando it was just pushed through the letter box, it wasn't even necessary to sign for it.

 I also bought one from eBay eBay UK Shop - ComtoShop: Mobile Phone PDA, iPhone iPod, MP3 MP4 (search on Wall Home Travel AC Adapter 5 USB Port Power Charger). But that was normal post too. 

 So I am not sure what to suggest apart from finding another home for the dog.


----------



## csommers

I don't see how they can ban you from receiving mail. I'm pretty sure that not delivering mail is a punishable offense.


----------



## DoYouRight

thats insane, I am curious about these opamps that make it replicate a predator. Is that identical sound?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thats insane, I am curious about these opamps that make it replicate a predator. Is that identical sound?_

 

The stock opamps are very similar to the Predator, but it's still a little less aggressive or energetic than the real thing. When I used the D10 optical DAC with internal amp, and then switched to using the D10 optical DAC feeding the Predator, there was more detail and space vs the Predator DAC, but very little change in sound between the two amp sections with the same source.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csommers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't see how they can ban you from receiving mail. I'm pretty sure that not delivering mail is a punishable offense._

 

Sorry but they have the right to refuse delivering mail via UPSP if the host has been warned and not complied. On top of that the dog attacked the mailman. My father is also a post office worker and he warned us that it would happen if we didn't take action. To bad my in-laws are too stubborn to listen thus resulting in the ban. We can still get packages via FedEx and UPS but the post office has banned us and forced us to get a P.O. Box or forward our mail to another address. Not many places send to P.O. Boxes too.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hawaiiancerveza* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... Not many places send to P.O. Boxes too._

 

Try: Secure mailbox services with a real street address at The UPS Store


----------



## roy_jones

So I've been without good audio for quite a while, and while I wait for my HF-2's to arrive, I started to get antsy to try out the D10 that I've had sitting in it's box for the last few weeks. 

 Only problem is that all I have for headphones are a pair of earbuds that came with my Sansa Clip. However, feeling desperate for music, I figured I'd give the D10 a whirl anyways, even though I'm having a helluva time trying to get my computer configured for audio. 

 So I plug in the crappy earbuds and...you've got to be kidding me. I may have to re-evaluate my perception of the varying importance of components in the audio chain. I am shocked by the sound I'm getting out of these earbuds. Quite a ringing testament to the D10. I am biting my nails for the chance to use it with a real set of headphones. 

 The difference between the headphone out of the Clip and the D10's headphone out is 'shocking'. I guess I expected it to be better, but in no way would I have predicted that there would be so dramatic a difference. 

 Makes me wonder about some of the folks that are running really nice custom IEM's straight out of a DAP. I've heard some folks talking about how "all you really need for high end monitors is a DAP". I'm sure it's adequate for truly portable situations, but I fear those people may be cheating themselves. 

 Very impressed with the D10!!


----------



## milford302009

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hawaiiancerveza* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks! I see the fiber optic cable connector but I don't see the coaxial connector... and another thing... on the ibasso instructions paper it comes with, it says the ibasso usually takes only 6 hours to charge. Under what voltage? On the adapter plug it comes with it says input:ac100v-240v 5060hz/0.1a An from what I understand a friend of mine in korea said that their voltage there is 240v. I know we don't do 240v in the Us....Because I have been charging it for the last day and it isn't charging for very long. Got any solutions?_

 

i thought ibasso was chinese :S


----------



## B0b

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milford302009* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i thought ibasso was chinese :S_

 

The iBasso's are indeed made and shipped from China.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've been without good audio for quite a while, and while I wait for my HF-2's to arrive, I started to get antsy to try out the D10 that I've had sitting in it's box for the last few weeks. 

 Only problem is that all I have for headphones are a pair of earbuds that came with my Sansa Clip. However, feeling desperate for music, I figured I'd give the D10 a whirl anyways, even though I'm having a helluva time trying to get my computer configured for audio. 

 So I plug in the crappy earbuds and...you've got to be kidding me. I may have to re-evaluate my perception of the varying importance of components in the audio chain. I am shocked by the sound I'm getting out of these earbuds. Quite a ringing testament to the D10. I am biting my nails for the chance to use it with a real set of headphones. 

 The difference between the headphone out of the Clip and the D10's headphone out is 'shocking'. I guess I expected it to be better, but in no way would I have predicted that there would be so dramatic a difference. 

 Makes me wonder about some of the folks that are running really nice custom IEM's straight out of a DAP. I've heard some folks talking about how "all you really need for high end monitors is a DAP". I'm sure it's adequate for truly portable situations, but I fear those people may be cheating themselves. 

 Very impressed with the D10!!_

 

well i'm with you on that; but then youve probably seen my JH|13 rig and its not exactly straight out of a dap; although they do sound pretty amazing diect out of iphone 3G. not in the same league as out of DIYMOD->Duelund dock->Lisa III or iHP132CF->D10 | [here]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





/->Lisa III [or here] 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my D10 just arrived back at base for service/mods; i've been without it for a week and although i'm not exactly left wanting; I do miss it pretty badly. I even bought myself one of the new/ish super low profile sysconcept U cables which arrived yesterday. cant wait to try it out and drop the Blackgate NX HQ (power rail and output, both with suitable bypass caps)i've had sitting here for a while, as I had a feeling the dac was going to finally not be useable at all shortly, so I held off on installing them.

 was actually really lucky; in the last few weeks in our national carrier has fully outlawed the transport of any device with lithium based cells, so a package (DIYMOD plus dock) I sent on the same day as the D10 was held and sent back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had clearly marked it as ipod and they still accepted it, so they will refund me. Luckily I dont think they are actually scanning or sniffing them, because the D10 made it through and is awaiting clearance in china; being that its not as recognizable as definitely having a LiPol I guess it 'flew under the radar'

 these new regulations that mean no device/object that contains lithium based cells is allowed to be transported by planes with travellers onboard (its the aviation regulatory bodies that have outlawed it) are going to cause all sorts of expense and drama for many companies, not least myself. I can use dedicated freight companies like fedex, DHL, EMS, but these are very expensive in australia (EMS not so much); so its not really a viable long-term solution at all. I will probably have to ship without batteries installed, to be done at the other end until I find a solution. or stop doing them altogether temporarily. is this happening worldwide; anyone have any problems receiving their D10 or other battery power device lately??


----------



## lhamp

Can someone refresh my memory... what's the stock opamp combo.... I've tried so many I can't even remember now. Thanks.


----------



## Reiniku

Out of curiosity, how does the DAC end and the Amp end of the D10 compare with the Pico? I'm trying to decide which portable is right for me or if I should get a Compass.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Reiniku* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Out of curiosity, how does the DAC end and the Amp end of the D10 compare with the Pico? I'm trying to decide which portable is right for me or if I should get a Compass._

 

The Pico is more powerful and I believe the DAC upscales but it only has USB, no coax or optical like the D10.


----------



## Reiniku

How much better is the coax or optical for the DAC over USB? Well, if I'm going to be using it for my laptop at all I think that coax or optical isn't really a concern, but I'll probably be using coax/optical for desktop use. If the Pico is more powerful, what's the upper limit of headphones that it can drive? How well will it handle the HD650, K701, or DT880 '05 250ohm's?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've been without good audio for quite a while, and while I wait for my HF-2's to arrive, I started to get antsy to try out the D10 that I've had sitting in it's box for the last few weeks. 

 Only problem is that all I have for headphones are a pair of earbuds that came with my Sansa Clip. However, feeling desperate for music, I figured I'd give the D10 a whirl anyways, even though I'm having a helluva time trying to get my computer configured for audio. 

 So I plug in the crappy earbuds and...you've got to be kidding me. I may have to re-evaluate my perception of the varying importance of components in the audio chain. I am shocked by the sound I'm getting out of these earbuds. Quite a ringing testament to the D10. I am biting my nails for the chance to use it with a real set of headphones. 

 The difference between the headphone out of the Clip and the D10's headphone out is 'shocking'. I guess I expected it to be better, but in no way would I have predicted that there would be so dramatic a difference. 

 Makes me wonder about some of the folks that are running really nice custom IEM's straight out of a DAP. I've heard some folks talking about how "all you really need for high end monitors is a DAP". I'm sure it's adequate for truly portable situations, but I fear those people may be cheating themselves. 

 Very impressed with the D10!!_

 

Wait until you have 300 hours of burn-in on the D10 and it opens up some more.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lhamp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone refresh my memory... what's the stock opamp combo.... I've tried so many I can't even remember now. Thanks._

 

ADA4841-2 main opamp, AD8532 (with a 708 or 711 on the chip as well) for buffers.

 Also, reiniku, look at my D10 review which compares the D10 DAC to the Pico DAC. There is a link in my public profile, under "about me".


----------



## Reiniku

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ADA4841-2 main opamp, AD8532 (with a 708 or 711 on the chip as well) for buffers.

 Also, reiniku, look at my D10 review which compares the D10 DAC to the Pico DAC. There is a link in my public profile, under "about me"._

 

I just have to say, fantastic reviews! I almost read the review for every dac/amp you had there. So it falls into the ranking of optical d10 > pico > usb d10 dap. And it sounds like if I roll opamps I can get a lot more juice out of a d10. Going to read some more of your dac/amp reviews and see if it'll lead me to any conclusions.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Reiniku* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just have to say, fantastic reviews! I almost read the review for every dac/amp you had there. So it falls into the ranking of optical d10 > pico > usb d10 dap. And it sounds like if I roll opamps I can get a lot more juice out of a d10. Going to read some more of your dac/amp reviews and see if it'll lead me to any conclusions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Optical D10 DAC section is only better than Pico with native 24/96 files downloaded from HDTracks or Linnrecords, otherwise any difference is hard to pin down with 16/44 rips, and I put their detail and soundstage on a similar level. D10 USB is not quite as good. 

 I have not compared my new Pico DAC only (no amp) in depth vs the D10 optical, but with 16/44 CD rips I may like the Pico DAC only better (when not comparing the amp sections). I need to sit down some day and do that in depth DAC only comparo, with line out of each (The Pico DAC/amp in the review didn't have line out).


----------



## Reiniku

One other thing, how is the quality of the DAC in these in comparison to similarly budgeted desktop versions like say... the Compass? 

 I think I might be finding the allure of a portable all too powerful and have decided I might just get a D10 or Pico, then use it one of the two as a DAP for something like a Gilmore Lite for home use. Any negatives to this? Or maybe just cave and get a Compass as well. Ugh, decisions, decisions...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Reiniku* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One other thing, how is the quality of the DAC in these in comparison to similarly budgeted desktop versions like say... the Compass? 

 I think I might be finding the allure of a portable all too powerful and have decided I might just get a D10 or Pico, then use it one of the two as a DAP for something like a Gilmore Lite for home use. Any negatives to this? Or maybe just cave and get a Compass as well. Ugh, decisions, decisions..._

 

I have not heard the compass, so I prefer not to comment about it. I could be happy feeding a D10 or Pico into my electrostatic rig, but a good $700-1000 desktop DAC is going to be better. These little DAC's were pretty close to a $500 Apogee Duet or $400 Micro DAC optical, last time I compared them.


----------



## HiFlight

I have had great success running my CD coax output into my D10 coax input, then running the D10 aux output to my Signature 30.2/K1000 rig. 

 The little D10 Coax DAC sounds mighty good. Good enough to replace my Headroom Ultra Micro DAC, which I sold some time back. Is the D10 DAC really better? Doubtful, although I could not hear the differences between the two. I do miss the switchable inputs on the Ultra, though.


----------



## roy_jones

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait until you have 300 hours of burn-in on the D10 and it opens up some more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm looking forward to it. 

 My experience last night has caused me to re-evaluate some of my previous assumptions about the audio chain. Under almost any circumstances, I never would have used a pair of cheap earbuds to listen on quality dac/amp. It's an atypical empirical experiment for which I never would've predicted the result. 

 I've listened to a variety of different quality amps and dacs with good headphones, but I always for some reason viewed using quality transducers as the prerequisite for any such experiment. That any observations made without using a caliber of headphones that can resolve the differences must be useless. That assumption has been thrown out the window (for me).

 It's still suspect to use a weak link in the chain to make generalizations about the other components, but this experience helped me to better understand how the chain itself is based on relative properties. 


 qusp, that legislation banning the postal carrier from transporting anything with lithium cells is really odd. I'd have to imagine computer companies like Dell have got to be sweating a bit over that decision....


----------



## milford302009

agreed, that basically means banning any electronics on planes.... any battery... even battery powered watches/torches on ur keyrings are banned lol... are u sure that's true?


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm looking forward to it. 

 My experience last night has caused me to re-evaluate some of my previous assumptions about the audio chain. Under almost any circumstances, I never would have used a pair of cheap earbuds to listen on quality dac/amp. It's an atypical empirical experiment for which I never would've predicted the result. 
_

 


 Maybe you're getting desperately delusional as you wait for your other headphones to arrive


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm looking forward to it. 

 My experience last night has caused me to re-evaluate some of my previous assumptions about the audio chain. Under almost any circumstances, I never would have used a pair of cheap earbuds to listen on quality dac/amp. It's an atypical empirical experiment for which I never would've predicted the result. 
 ....._

 

These days, I'm using mainly my AMP3 DAP, and my D10 [2412(L-R)/8616(buffers)] for my listening, and with those, mainly the PAA-1 buds which came stock with the AMP3 and a pair of KSC35 (while my phones which cost $400 - $850, and my sources & amps which cost $400 - $1200 each are looking on in disbelief).

 There is a LOT of enjoyment to be had from well designed and well made gear costing a small fraction of the higher-end, higher-cost gear that, frankly, scores higher marks on the Audiophile Scorecard categories. Gear done well on a lower budget (and I've got a decent collection of such items) tends to have such a cleanness and a freshness in the sound that is so refreshing and just plain enjoyable.

 In the winter months, I find that I like my sound more lushly appointed, more refined, aged, cured and the audio equivalent of finished in oak casks. In the late summer and early-mid autumn is when my ear really appreciates the less processed, fresher, cleaner sound of well-prepared and sparser audio solutions.

 I totally "get" roy_jones appreciation of how much goodness there can be in what might be thought to be "low end" gear. From an "artistic" point of view we might call such audio gear "minimalist". In order to fully enjoy one's music with it, such gear doesn't really have to "get out of the way". There's generally not as much "stuff" there to get in the way in the first place.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roy_jones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm looking forward to it. 

 My experience last night has caused me to re-evaluate some of my previous assumptions about the audio chain. Under almost any circumstances, I never would have used a pair of cheap earbuds to listen on quality dac/amp. It's an atypical empirical experiment for which I never would've predicted the result. 

 I've listened to a variety of different quality amps and dacs with good headphones, but I always for some reason viewed using quality transducers as the prerequisite for any such experiment. That any observations made without using a caliber of headphones that can resolve the differences must be useless. That assumption has been thrown out the window (for me).

 It's still suspect to use a weak link in the chain to make generalizations about the other components, but this experience helped me to better understand how the chain itself is based on relative properties. 


 qusp, that legislation banning the postal carrier from transporting anything with lithium cells is really odd. I'd have to imagine computer companies like Dell have got to be sweating a bit over that decision...._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milford302009* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_agreed, that basically means banning any electronics on planes.... any battery... even battery powered watches/torches on ur keyrings are banned lol... are u sure that's true?_

 

i'm not sure about actually in the cabin with you; since if your laptop or phone burst into flames in your bag or pocket; good chance you or someone else would notice before it caused a fire. I guess its moreso in the cargo hold; where nobody is around to notice and could ignite and spread without anyone knowing perhaps till too late. apparently all carriers including fedex and the others in the US banned it outright for a while; but I guess they thought better of it, since they are everywhere and it would mean a massive whole in the economy. I was able to send via fedex today, but you should see the amount of paperwork I had to fill out!! insane amounts!! same paperwork as if I was sending other dangerous goods like explosives, medical waste and other hazardous materials. in triplicate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 auspost however is sticking with it and anything with lithium cells must be shipped by land; so they do not send international anymore at all.

 anyway back on topic; I do agree that coax dac on D10 is really quite something; i'm just finishing off my dual mono Buffalo32, so i
 'll have a decent upgrade there; but I will be sure to post impressions/comparisons with D10 AUX


----------



## hvu

Well I recently figure out how to get my usb on my D10 to work with my computer.

 Previously, I was running coaxial out of my computer to the D10. What surprised me how different the usb was to the coaxial. From my impression the usb was darker and slightly more detailed in the bass but at the same time i felt the treble was weaker and was not as prenounced compared to the coaxial setup. At time same I think it could be because the soundstage was wider when using the usb compared to coaxial. 
 I was wondering what other people impression of the two setups.
 Setup: Coaxial=24/96, Usb=16/192 from the soundcard

 I was also wondering when running the coaxial I could adjust the volume from the computer and amp is that considered double amping?
 Is it just wiser to run the usb where the volume can't be adjust on comuter.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milford302009* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i thought ibasso was chinese :S_

 

ya they are but a friend of mine who lives in korea said china korea and a few other places have 240v plugins. Here in the US I think its only like 100v....


----------



## qusp

hvu: usb is limited to 16/48 on the D10; (and anything without the expensive high res reciever chip or custom firmware/driver. we have been talking about this subject over the last few pages; perhaps have a look

 I much prefer coax to usb; as I hae said, I like the increased air and clarity.


----------



## hvu

Oh yea sorry i knew it was 16/48, I know why i typed 16/192 but thanks for the heads up I will look into it.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hawaiiancerveza* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ya they are but a friend of mine who lives in korea said china korea and a few other places have 240v plugins. Here in the US I think its only like 100v...._

 

China is 240 the US averages around 120 or so. It used to be 115 but now I see 120 to 122.


----------



## madwolf

UK, India, Singapore, Malaysia .... using 220-240. I think Hong Kong as well


----------



## theory_87

Taiwan using 110-120v. I think it due to the history of this country.
 Ex British Colonies are using 220-240v where Ex Jap or US Colonies are using 110-120v


----------



## bakhtiar

OT : Voltage regions
Mains power around the world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 The iBasso supplied USB is auto voltage 100-240V. But, I leave my D10 connected to my laptop, and by the time I finished listening, it is fully charged already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 TQ.


----------



## Aslan123

I just received the D10 two days back, and I thought I would give my initial impressions using an ATH-ES7 and a USB connection. 

 To me it seems that the D10 needs to be powered for a bit before use. It didn't really sound that great yesterday in the first 1-2 hours of use, but then it really started to open up later on in the day. I remember my initial impression was basically "I paid $300 for this?", but then basically my doubts disappeared after a few hours. I noticed the same thing today and perhaps it will mellow out with burn-in. 

 Also, I'm finding that even with the stock opamps, it's a nice match with the ES7 overall. I've noticed the bass especially has become more pronounced, especially in music like Joy Division, but at the same time the overall sound has become more clear and clean. Also, the brightness trait of the ES7 has been minimized a little as well. 
 This is in comparison to the onboard sound on my work computer so it isn't so surprising, but at the same time the ES7 and the D10 seem to fit together well. 

 Eventually I'll try and compare the Amp to the one in my Sansa Fuze, but unfortunately I do not have a LOD so I can't make the most accurate comparison right now. 
 All I can really say is that I didn't really hear much of a difference between the two when linking from the Fuze's headphone-out to the D10's Aux in using the cheap mini-to-mini cable provided. I know that the ES7 is very easy to drive, so perhaps I'll try this test with my W5000 and see with that. The main reason for the purchase was for the DAC anyhow. 

 The only thing that disappointed me a little was the build quality. Although the unit itself feels very solid, and the volume control also very sensitive and easy to adjust, it seems like some of the ports on the D10 don't line up perfectly and for a $300 product, this is a bit annoying.


----------



## madwolf

While Sorting out my old Component box, I found 2 nos of 741 Op-Amp. 






 Wounder why I got them there. I plug 2 of them into my Socket-ed Brown dog and then into the LR of the D10. 

 Guess what --- It worked !!!

 How it sound ? -- Devoid of highs, Devoid of low, lifeless mid. But hey it worked. 

 The 741 is THE op-amp that every other op-amp is based upon. The Greatest Grand Daddy of them all. Fit for a museum. For a very long time every engineering book about op-amp feature this. This is the Part which have the most offspring in silicon history, less the transistor.

 Note that the 2 op-amp comes from different company, In the pass they shared part number which resulted in numerous compatibility problem. Like what John mention A 5534 from different company at different time sound different. Added with the ease of remark/cloning part numbers, All new op-amp have different part numbers even if they are spec likewise.


----------



## nzstudent

how would the d10 compare with a well made ppas/gamma 1 combo? thnx


----------



## dazzer1975

sorry about stating the obvious but I have been forced to reconsider the quality of the d10 amp section.

 Just tried the d10 dac feeding my iqube, source is the iriver h140 using flac connected optically to the d10 (or the dac section in the d10 for the pedants amongst us lol).

 I was looking for some sense of refinement, a clarity and an increased sense of dead silence and blackness in the quiet sections of the music.

 I did not find it, so I went back to the d10 amp section and realised it was there all along aswell as a kind of velvety smooth richness and I have, as a result, been able to reconnect with the d10 in a pleasing way.

 I wish I still had my pico to compare directly against 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was using audio technica esw9 and listening to adele.

 Now my curiosity has been piqued regarding the p3 and oem models.

 I'd also be interested in qusps impression of a direct comparison of the d10's amp section and the lisa III


----------



## jonathanjong

So...a noobish question I couldn't find an answer too after running a search on this thread: 

 How do I connect a MacBook to the D10's coaxial port? Do I need a...coaxial-to-3.5mm or coaxial-to-minitoslink cable or something?


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonathanjong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ How do I connect a MacBook to the D10's coaxial port? Do I need a...coaxial-to-3.5mm or coaxial-to-minitoslink cable or something?_

 

mini optical out of Mac>Toslink into D-10


----------



## wuwhere

^^^ Nice setup.


----------



## jonathanjong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mini optical out of Mac>Toslink into D-10




_

 

Eh? Isn't that how you use the Optical port on the D10? What about the one next to it? The one that looks like an RCA port.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonathanjong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Eh? Isn't that how you use the Optical port on the D10? What about the one next to it? The one that looks like an RCA port._

 

Because the MacBook only has an optical digital out, the mini-toslink to toslink connection will be the way.
 The RCA/cinch is a digital input, too, but the Mac doesn't have such a digital output.
 (The audio-out on the Mac is a combined digital optical and analog line out.
 Some CD- or DVD players will have a non-optical/RCA/Coax digital out, which can be connected with a 75ohm RCA/Coax digital cable to the D10.)

 Best wishes
 Reiner


----------



## jonathanjong

Ah, I see. Excellent. Thanks.


----------



## qusp

OT, but you guys should definitely check out the ibasso OEM thread; there is something of great interest on the last page; something that will probably mean another round of purchases for many of us in november


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OT, but you guys should definitely check out the ibasso OEM thread; there is something of great interest on the last page; something that will probably mean another round of purchases for many of us in november_

 

more correctly, for iriver h100 series user. But looking at the rate how Quest.Fi (OEM) product develop, I won't put much hope on nov 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Quest.Fi amp was such a long wait. Seriously, we don't know how much the dac will be better than D10 too. All words are market gimmick till we consumer actually try it ourself. If the DAc indeed prove to be better than D10, I will sell my D10 and opt for the DAC with an amp.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_more correctly, for iriver h100 series user. But looking at the rate how Quest.Fi (OEM) product develop, I won't put much hope on nov 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Quest.Fi amp was such a long wait. Seriously, we don't know how much the dac will be better than D10 too. All words are market gimmick till we consumer actually try it ourself. If the DAc indeed prove to be better than D10, I will sell my D10 and opt for the DAC with an amp._

 

yeah I guess you're right about development time, but not about doubting the improvement from running 2 x 8740 in parallel; think opus


----------



## Bojamijams

Anyone tried this with JH-13s? Any particular op-amp combo that synchs very nicely?


----------



## dazzer1975

so that dac will be balanced essentially?

 I note it has single ended connections, so will this be missing something, or is it me who is missing the point?

 It would be immensely interesting to have a balanced portable rig, but wouldn't that require a balanced portable source, dac, balanced amp and of course the obligatory retermination to balanced for the headphone/earphone?


----------



## dazzer1975

dp.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so that dac will be balanced essentially?

 I note it has single ended connections, so will this be missing something, or is it me who is missing the point?

 It would be immensely interesting to have a balanced portable rig, but wouldn't that require a balanced portable source, dac, balanced amp and of course the obligatory retermination to balanced for the headphone/earphone?_

 

yes its balanced right up to the point the positive and inverse signals are combined in the op-amp (AD8616) the pic he names hot/cold combined etc.

 well yes it has single ended connections, thus my question in there regarding an OEM version with balanced outs. the dac in this case IS the source (in fact it usually is), you do not need a balanced transport (although it wouldnt hurt) balanced output could be achieved with 2 x mono minis to save space, then the amp problem, but the L/R in OEM is already fairly well isolated, it would however need input and output sections to be reworked. my I already have a balanced cable for my JH13


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry about stating the obvious but I have been forced to reconsider the quality of the d10 amp section.

 Just tried the d10 dac feeding my iqube, source is the iriver h140 using flac connected optically to the d10 (or the dac section in the d10 for the pedants amongst us lol).

 I was looking for some sense of refinement, a clarity and an increased sense of dead silence and blackness in the quiet sections of the music.

 I did not find it, so I went back to the d10 amp section and realised it was there all along aswell as a kind of velvety smooth richness and I have, as a result, been able to reconnect with the d10 in a pleasing way.

 I wish I still had my pico to compare directly against 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was using audio technica esw9 and listening to adele.

 Now my curiosity has been piqued regarding the p3 and oem models.

 I'd also be interested in qusps impression of a direct comparison of the d10's amp section and the lisa III_

 

hey Daz, i'll get around to this tomorrow mate; going to bed now. sorry I only just saw it. L3 is in a different class as far as amp only goes mate; but I still use the D10 without it some days depending. i'll sit down and do a brief comparison for you in a few days when my D10 gets back from base, but before I mod the caps. john has a good idea also


----------



## dazzer1975

no problems, obviously there was / is no rush whatsoever but I would be interested in some comparisons if you were able to provide them, like I say, linking the iqube to the dac of the d10 didnt do for me what I wanted, so would like to hear how the d10's amp compares to some of the better amps out there.

 Appreciate it.


----------



## jamato8

The Lisa III has and open effortless quality, as it should for the voltage and current drive capabilities. For an IEM the Lisa III provides a huge headroom and therefore, unfettered dynamics. The one area I would like to see a little improved is the extension on the top end of the Lisa III. I have not worked out all the op amp capabilities of the D10 so there are many variables. The Black Gates gave a little smoother touch to the D10 and refinement but be prepared for a long forming period of the BG caps.

 With any of these amps it is much better than it used to be with a few exceptions like the SR71 and Xin SuperMacro 3, which to this day still sound excellent.


----------



## chaospanda

I am burning my BG capacitor as we speak. Only 100 hrs so 900 hrs to go.


----------



## hvu

I just replace my stock opamps with the ad744 topkit and now when I turn on my amp it makes a static noise rather than the popping noise it use to make. Is that normal?


----------



## HiFlight

Yes, it is normal as you move the volume control when turning on the D10.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just replace my stock opamps with the ad744 topkit and now when I turn on my amp it makes a static noise rather than the popping noise it use to make. Is that normal?_

 

I'm currently using that same opamp, ad744, and when I turn it on there is a static pop, but no noise at all after that, even when increasing or decreasing the volume.


----------



## qusp

its normal hvu, wuwhere is probably using less sensitive headphones. I get it with my IEMs, but not with other headphones. dont worry about it; just sit back and enjoy the music.


----------



## qusp

awesome; just checked the tracking on DHL, my D10 is back in brisbane and has been cleared; so I will have it again in the morning!!! i've missed it a bit; never got to enjoy it fully with JH13 because of the problem with the jacks. thats so cool that ibasso covered fast DHL shipping on a service!! will have a quick listen for reference to get my head around the sound of the 'stock' D10 OPA2350 with 8616 and then put BG in.


----------



## shredder

I just ordered a sys-concepts mini-toslink cable for muy D10 / iriver combo. I spent some time on the phone with the tech guy. Good people and very helpful. I changed my mind to a single cable with no shells from a set up involving 90 degree adaptors. I wanted some flexability in the distance between the iriver and the D10 and it seems I made the best choice, AND saved a few bucks in the process. Cant wait to get rid of my current 1 meter cable that is wound around the combo!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 On a side note,,, it seems my D10 has become quite a bit darker over the last few days.... I'm hoping that is the same type of burn in issue that others have written on the board about.


----------



## tiff

i have several d10 related questions. it will only be used for my laptop.

 mine has to go to 2 o clock to properly power esw9's on high gain. does that seem right?


 if the batteries are out but it's being used via usb or optical, will it still work? i know with the corda move for example it would always run on USB alone but would be stronger run on USB with batteries. if it does run even with the battery out, how do i know the batteries are out (say i missed the flashing warning).

 i'm burning in right now and plan to for a couple hundred hours. for those that did/near straight burn ins, how did you manage the charging? burn in til the batteries were out, charge, start burning in again? i initially started to charge it out of the box into the wall but stopped it at about 10 minutes to plug in via usb to start the burn in but never flipped the charge switch. should i be charging it right now?


----------



## jamato8

I just keep it charged while burning it in and keep the switch on.


----------



## bakhtiar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tiff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have several d10 related questions. it will only be used for my laptop.

 mine has to go to 2 o clock to properly power esw9's on high gain. does that seem right?_

 

Eventhough D10 is a headphone amp, but, the power output is not as much as desktop amp. With stock opamp/buffers, PFEs, it goes to up to 2-3 (low gain), and high gain did not do much. With UM3Xs, I listen at around 11. There are several opamp/buffers combos which can give much more output power.

  Quote:


 if the batteries are out but it's being used via usb or optical, will it still work? i know with the corda move for example it would always run on USB alone but would be stronger run on USB with batteries. if it does run even with the battery out, how do i know the batteries are out (say i missed the flashing warning). 
 

No battery, no sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But you can charging the D10 via USB, while listening to music. D10 has a charge circuit to control when to start and stop charging.

 Thank you.


----------



## scoober22

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tiff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have several d10 related questions. it will only be used for my laptop.

 mine has to go to 2 o clock to properly power esw9's on high gain. does that seem right?

_

 

No, that doesn't seem right. I'm running ESW9's with a D10 and on low gain my volume knob rarely goes past 11 o clock.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just keep it charged while burning it in and keep the switch on._

 

yeah; when I said to turn the charge circuit off; thats after you have finished burning it in of course; sorry for the confusion. that would be a total PITA!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really think you have zero to worry about regarding the volume


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_awesome; just checked the tracking on DHL, my D10 is back in brisbane and has been cleared; so I will have it again in the morning!!! i've missed it a bit._

 

You're more patient than I am. I remember when tracking showed it was in customs. I hit refresh like every half an hour and almost blew a fuse when I found out it would take til the NEXT day before they would clear.


----------



## tiff

well my optical cord comes in tomorrow. if i have it plugged in via optical, optical doesn't charge it like USB does, does it? and speaking of that, i'm still not clear if the d10 will run on USB even with completely dead batteries.

 or should i just plug it into the wall via USB while powering it through optical? even if that sounds right, i'm still not sure how i should manage the batteries if all i'm going to do is leaving it running 24/7.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tiff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well my optical cord comes in tomorrow. if i have it plugged in via optical, optical doesn't charge it like USB does, does it? and speaking of that, i'm still not clear if the d10 will run on USB even with completely dead batteries.

 or should i just plug it into the wall via USB while powering it through optical? even if that sounds right, i'm still not sure how i should manage the batteries if all i'm going to do is leaving it running 24/7._

 

I just got my D10 a couple of days ago and have left it on for burn-in. Getting home from work today it was dead, I flipped on the charge switch and it sounded perfect...so yes it will run on USB with completely dead batteries. 

 A noob question here, can anyone share a link that shows pictures of changing opamps? I will want to try a couple popular choices for my IE8 soon but really don't want to open her up until I have a general idea of what to expect. I have done a lot of searches on this and just get totally in depth engineering calculations explaining the electrical properties or people always assuming you have already swapped them out before. Is it really simple like exchanging a cpu in a desktop? Thanks!


----------



## tiff

it was dead from running on what? will it still be putting power through the headphone out and the light will just be out? i know all these questions sound samey and redundant but the only amp i had previous to this was a 2move - it ran fine just off USB, when you threw a battery in it gave it a little boost. when the battery was completely dead and running purely off USB you could tell due to the dimness of the light. because the d10 has a built in battery, i'm just trying to understand how to maintain it daily and still get the best sound. also if being "fully charged" makes no difference in burning in i don't think i should drain the battery down.


----------



## chaospanda

hope this works


----------



## milford302009

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sid-Fi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my D10 a couple of days ago and have left it on for burn-in. Getting home from work today it was dead, I flipped on the charge switch and it sounded perfect...so yes it will run on USB with completely dead batteries. 

 A noob question here, can anyone share a link that shows pictures of changing opamps? I will want to try a couple popular choices for my IE8 soon but really don't want to open her up until I have a general idea of what to expect. I have done a lot of searches on this and just get totally in depth engineering calculations explaining the electrical properties or people always assuming you have already swapped them out before. Is it really simple like exchanging a cpu in a desktop? Thanks!_

 

it's easier then changing a cpu, u don't have to lock it in, just insert it making sure the marked side with the half circle is facing the right way (towards the caps)

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5349337-post175.html
 3rd pic down and on the left, the 3 'platforms' just pull the platforms out and replace them


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tiff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it was dead from running on what? will it still be putting power through the headphone out and the light will just be out? i know all these questions sound samey and redundant but the only amp i had previous to this was a 2move - it ran fine just off USB, when you threw a battery in it gave it a little boost. when the battery was completely dead and running purely off USB you could tell due to the dimness of the light. because the d10 has a built in battery, i'm just trying to understand how to maintain it daily and still get the best sound. also if being "fully charged" makes no difference in burning in i don't think i should drain the battery down._

 

I repeat; the D10 ALWAYS RUNS OFF BATTERY. whether you have it plugged in to the wall or not. so if you are burning it i, leave the charge switch on, after you have finished to conserve battery charge cycles, run it down and then when it gets really low turn the charge switch on.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sid-Fi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my D10 a couple of days ago and have left it on for burn-in. Getting home from work today it was dead, I flipped on the charge switch and it sounded perfect...so yes it will run on USB with completely dead batteries. 

 A noob question here, can anyone share a link that shows pictures of changing opamps? I will want to try a couple popular choices for my IE8 soon but really don't want to open her up until I have a general idea of what to expect. I have done a lot of searches on this and just get totally in depth engineering calculations explaining the electrical properties or people always assuming you have already swapped them out before. Is it really simple like exchanging a cpu in a desktop? Thanks!_

 

when you run it down dead in one sitting like that, there is a small amount of charge left and once it has been off for a while, you will still be able to squeeze some more juice out of it. D10 always runs off batteries; you cannot run off USB with a totally dead battery. your battery was simply not totally dead.

 besides; your statement makes no sense. you either have the charge switch on or not. with it turned off and connected by USB the dac will run itself all the way down and die; with it turned on, it charges the battery; where is the option to run off USB in this scenario??


----------



## tiff

you're suggesting that i leave the charge switch turned on throughout the entire burning in process? i'm going to be doing this for a few weeks with minor listening sessions inbetween. that's fine for the battery?

 also without the charge switch on and it being run for all day running off USB, what happens to it? all lights turn off/no sound? what other indicators are there that battery is running low other than the flashing light and how long does it flash? also is that the light in front or back?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tiff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you're suggesting that i leave the charge switch turned on throughout the entire burning in process? i'm going to be doing this for a few weeks with minor listening sessions inbetween. that's fine for the battery?_

 

yes, if you wish to burn it in like that, then that is what i'm suggesting. the other way to do it is simply to burn it in as you use it. it doesnt sound bad or anything before it is burned in. 

 IMO head-fi has some answering to do when someone will not listen to their equipment until it has been burned in for a minimum of 500hrs lol. just use it and it will burn in as you do so. some equipment actually sounds bad before its burned in; the D10 is not one of those things.if you like, you can let it run over night each night after using it through the day. 

 no it is not fine for the battery, but the battery has many hundreds of cycles in it; each cycle is roughly 20hrs, so 3 weeks (450hrs) will only use up maybe 15 of those (maximum). when left on trickle charge it does not use up a full cycle each time it tops up the battery, a full cycle is only used up if you run the battery all the way down and then charge it.

  Quote:


 also without the charge switch on and it being run for all day running off USB, what happens to it? all lights turn off/no sound? what other indicators are there that battery is running low other than the flashing light and how long does it flash? also is that the light in front or back? 
 

errmmm....I dont know what to make of that question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 if the battery runs down...nothing happens; there is no power, what do you think happens?? why do you need to know all this before it gets there (I assume it hasnt arrived) you have a choice; burn it in by playing it constantly with it plugged in charging...or dont and just use it. the charge light is on the back, but the light on the front will flash when its running low, I havent timed how long it flashes for.


----------



## HiFlight

For those who are having hiss issues with their D10 when using very sensitive IEMs or phones, the TLS2141 biased Class A and used with the EL8201 buffers sounds superb, and has zero hiss. As the 2141s are single-channel opamps and need to have 2 of them mounted on an adapter, an alternative is to use the TLS2142, which is a dual-channel opamp that needs no adapter, but can't be biased Class A. 

 The 2141/2142 can also be very successfully run with buffers bypassed. 

 The TLS2141/42 is a very musical opamp with excellent soundstage and detail.


----------



## tiff

the d10 arrived yesterday and i'm asking questions as they come to me. as it stands it's now been burning in for about 20 hours straight. i only had the charge switch turned on for about 5 minutes before switching it back off. if running it off USB with the switch turned off provides it no power, then will the lights go out and will it stop providing sound? i believe that's a simple question for someone who has experience with this piece. same for the warning signs of when a battery is low.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tiff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the d10 arrived yesterday and i'm asking questions as they come to me. as it stands it's now been burning in for about 20 hours straight. i only had the charge switch turned on for about 5 minutes before switching it back off. if running it off USB with the switch turned off provides it no power, then will the lights go out and will it stop providing sound? i believe that's a simple question for someone who has experience with this piece. same for the warning signs of when a battery is low._

 

Yes, your statement is correct. If the charging switch is turned off, the battery will sooner or later run down. First indication is the red power light in front will begin to blink, then the player will finally shut down, until such time as you recharge the battery. 

 IMO, too much concern is devoted to the care and feeding of the battery. I suspect that your D10 will fade from use before you ever experience battery problems, regardless of whether you leave the switch on all the time when using USB input, or whether you recharge when the battery runs down.


----------



## tiff

well i'm just surprised because i'm at almost 30 hours straight of burn in via USB never switching the charge on and it's still going. i just wanted to clarify that when the battery dies, the unit does actually shut off and not just give out some subpar power purely through USB. i read that for most their d10 was only giving them about 20 hours.

 and in regards to the charge switch and when it should actually be used, considering it was bolded out in the manual to only use it when the player actually indicates that it needs it, it surprised me to see a couple of you tell me to just leave the switch on all the time despite whether or not the unit actually needs it. does everyone else do this? any others can feel free to jump in.


----------



## tiff

so my d10 battery doesn't last forever as it seemed to during the first wave of the burn in process. finally went lights out. coming to finally realize how this thing works.

 unfortunately something seems seriously wrong with the voume. i mentioned that i have to put it past 2 o'clock with the esw9. with my ksc35's on a recording i can actually max out the volume and while it's still a smidge louder than comfortable listening levels, the fact is i'm maxing out the volume knob with a pair of ksc35's on high gain. stock opamps or not, this doesn't seem normal. anyone have experience with this or should i get in contact with ibasso right away?


----------



## jamato8

I use the PortaPros and there is way more than enough volume. I go to around 12 oclock or so, max. I guess it is time to contact iBasso if you have the unit charged and the opamps correctly placed.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who are having hiss issues with their D10 when using very sensitive IEMs or phones, the TLS2141 biased Class A and used with the EL8201 buffers sounds superb, and has zero hiss. As the 2141s are single-channel opamps and need to have 2 of them mounted on an adapter, an alternative is to use the TLS2142, which is a dual-channel opamp that needs no adapter, but can't be biased Class A. 

 The 2141/2142 can also be very successfully run with buffers bypassed. 

 The TLS2141/42 is a very musical opamp with excellent soundstage and detail._

 

AD8066 is good and hissless too. TLE2142 however blend both ad744 and ad8066 strength together imo.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tiff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well i'm just surprised because i'm at almost 30 hours straight of burn in via USB never switching the charge on and it's still going. i just wanted to clarify that when the battery dies, the unit does actually shut off and not just give out some subpar power purely through USB. i read that for most their d10 was only giving them about 20 hours.

 and in regards to the charge switch and when it should actually be used, considering it was bolded out in the manual to only use it when the player actually indicates that it needs it, it surprised me to see a couple of you tell me to just leave the switch on all the time despite whether or not the unit actually needs it. does everyone else do this? any others can feel free to jump in._

 

well you asked how you should burn in the unit and i told you. I gave you the answer telling you that you should only charge when needed and how for burn-in this isnt practical; burn it in or dont burn it in.... up to you

 i guess you somehow didnt understand my answer regarding no power = errrmmm no power. i'm wondering, do you have headphones or some sort of load connected to the D10 when you are burning it in?? because that would be a sure-fire way of telling if it had run out of power or not apart from no light. it sounds to me like you may not. if you dont; you are not burning it in at all. the amp must have a load

 has the battery charged again after running it down before you tried the koss?? because if it doesnt have enough charge it will have very low volume and it will be clipping too. 

 all the same you should email ibasso with your problems; they are very good at sorting things out.


----------



## tiff

i'm not exactly getting any sympathy. being told that it was tested before it went out and basically any volume issues i have are apparently not important. i even used the total bithead as an example stating i only needed about half the power with the koss and got the reply back that he believes the total bithead has a higher gain setting and also again asked that i make sure my d10's on high gain setting, as it is and as if it hardly makes a difference.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tiff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm not exactly getting any sympathy. being told that it was tested before it went out and basically any volume issues i have are apparently not important. i even used the total bithead as an example stating i only needed about half the power with the koss and got the reply back that he believes the total bithead has a higher gain setting and also again asked that i make sure my d10's on high gain setting, as it is and as if it hardly makes a difference._

 

What is your source? If you are using analog input do you have the line volume turned up? iTunes and other music software have a software volume, is that turned down?


----------



## Sid-Fi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_when you run it down dead in one sitting like that, there is a small amount of charge left and once it has been off for a while, you will still be able to squeeze some more juice out of it. D10 always runs off batteries; you cannot run off USB with a totally dead battery. your battery was simply not totally dead.

*besides; your statement makes no sense. you either have the charge switch on or not. with it turned off and connected by USB the dac will run itself all the way down and die; with it turned on, it charges the battery; where is the option to run off USB in this scenario??*_

 

I let it run all night and all day the next day with the charge switch off. When I got home, the battery was way down to the point it appeared dead and was unresponsive. When I switched the charge switch back on the USB was feeding the battery enough juice to instantly have it working again with normal volume and sound quality. I didn't mean to infer that it was bypassing the battery at all...my apologies.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milford302009* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's easier then changing a cpu, u don't have to lock it in, just insert it making sure the marked side with the half circle is facing the right way (towards the caps)

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5349337-post175.html
 3rd pic down and on the left, the 3 'platforms' just pull the platforms out and replace them_

 

Thanks Milford, that picture spoke a thousand words and was just what I was looking for. I also appreciated your comments on my DAP questions. Thanks.


----------



## tiff

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is your source? If you are using analog input do you have the line volume turned up? iTunes and other music software have a software volume, is that turned down?_

 

foobar and volume on both it and pc are at 100%. i can't think of anything else i can do personally. if it's an opamp issue i haven't fiddled around with that or anything like that before so i'm a little timid. was planning on just enjoying it stock for a while before i started glossing the intent of this actual thread.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sid-Fi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I let it run all night and all day the next day with the charge switch off. When I got home, the battery was way down to the point it appeared dead and was unresponsive. When I switched the charge switch back on the USB was feeding the battery enough juice to instantly have it working again with normal volume and sound quality. I didn't mean to infer that it was bypassing the battery at all...my apologies. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

hehe no need for apologies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 did I mention how much I love this little thing??? the sound with JH13 is really out of this world. sitting out on my back verandah; looking at the stars, sipping a large G&T and chilling out to some shpongle and groove armada is simply sublime 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 < we really need a customs smiley; although how that could be illustrated i'm not sure


----------



## Sid-Fi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hehe no need for apologies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 did I mention how much I love this little thing??? the sound with JH13 is really out of this world. sitting out on my back verandah; looking at the stars, sipping a large G&T and chilling out to some shpongle and groove armada is simply sublime 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 < we really need a customs smiley; although how that could be illustrated i'm not sure_

 

I'm really loving Head-Fi so far and have found it IMMENSELY helpful...so you'll have to forgive me if I treat our Headphoneus Supremus' with a little respect...haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

 Man, I can't believe the reviews and user comments I'm seeing about JH13. Having just gone from Denon c751 to Sennheiser IE8, it's hard to imagine another big jump in SQ from an IEM. Have you tried IE8, is JH13 really THAT much better? 

 I've definitely been enjoying my D10. I just got it a week ago and it's my first DAC and amp. It's amazing how much better it makes my noob Sennheiser 280 Pros sound. They immediately sounded 2-3x the headphone when I hooked them to D10 through USB. That fact is making me really want to pull the trigger on the Denon 2000 asap and start modding them to LA2000 as soon as I can over time. 

 That being said, I really need to swamp op amps for my IE8. Amplified with stock D10, the bass heavy nature of IE8 is proving too much for me. It is overwhelming the mids and fatiguing my ears (which I don't get from my iPod 5G or Cowon O2 from HP). I've got a AD8599 incoming to try with AD8656 buffers thanks to Larry's suggestions. I've also got HiFlight's latest Topkit incoming and am pretty pumped to check it out as well. 

 Cheers


----------



## milford302009

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sid-Fi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm really loving Head-Fi so far and have found it IMMENSELY helpful...so you'll have to forgive me if I treat our Headphoneus Supremus' with a little respect...haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

 Man, I can't believe the reviews and user comments I'm seeing about JH13. Having just gone from Denon c751 to Sennheiser IE8, it's hard to imagine another big jump in SQ from an IEM. Have you tried IE8, is JH13 really THAT much better? 

 I've definitely been enjoying my D10. I just got it a week ago and it's my first DAC and amp. It's amazing how much better it makes my noob Sennheiser 280 Pros sound. They immediately sounded 2-3x the headphone when I hooked them to D10 through USB. That fact is making me really want to pull the trigger on the Denon 2000 asap and start modding them to LA2000 as soon as I can over time. 

 That being said, I really need to swamp op amps for my IE8. Amplified with stock D10, the bass heavy nature of IE8 is proving too much for me. It is overwhelming the mids and fatiguing my ears (which I don't get from my iPod 5G or Cowon O2 from HP). I've got a AD8599 incoming to try with AD8656 buffers thanks to Larry's suggestions. I've also got HiFlight's latest Topkit incoming and am pretty pumped to check it out as well. 

 Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

i've just got my ACS-T1s.. sounds so much better then the IE8s lol...
 sounds much clearer and tighter bass which i like...
 (*spreads the poison*, sorry for your wallet if you catch it)
 great that now i'm completely broke.. no more upgrades apart from maybe a few opamps...
 it sounds great with the AD744OBCA/EL8201 combo from Hiflight(thx again) tho it sounds like a miniature shower when i pause the music lol.
 the bass of the IE8s gets more solid as the burn in continues, in my opinion it sounds noticeably better after a few hundred hours...
 the D2000 sounds great with the 2228/8656 combo (i have only modded the earpads... can't find dyanmat in little old New Zealand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), tho i didn't like the D2000s too much, prefer the IE8s (mainly because of the lighter weight and newer lol)
 ps burn in the D2000 with a slightly higher volume then listening level, the bass gets quiet a bit better and the highs don't 'squeak' after a day or 2...


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milford302009* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i've just got my ACS-T1s.. sounds so much better then the IE8s lol...
 sounds much clearer and tighter bass which i like...
 (*spreads the poison*, sorry for your wallet if you catch it)
 great that now i'm completely broke.. no more upgrades apart from maybe a few opamps...
 it sounds great with the AD744OBCA/EL8201 combo from Hiflight(thx again) tho it sounds like a miniature shower when i pause the music lol.
 the bass of the IE8s gets more solid as the burn in continues, in my opinion it sounds noticeably better after a few hundred hours...
 the D2000 sounds great with the 2228/8656 combo (i have only modded the earpads... can't find dyanmat in little old New Zealand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), tho i didn't like the D2000s too much, prefer the IE8s (mainly because of the lighter weight and newer lol)
 ps burn in the D2000 with a slightly higher volume then listening level, the bass gets quiet a bit better and the highs don't 'squeak' after a day or 2..._

 

Nice to see another D10 and T1 user 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IMO, T1 is one of the most underrated IEM around. AD744 produce hiss to my T1. You might want to try TLE2142 or AD8066 with EL8201 buffer. It sound like the best combination of opamps for T1 I ever tried.


----------



## milford302009

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice to see another D10 and T1 user 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IMO, T1 is one of the most underrated IEM around. AD744 produce hiss to my T1. You might want to try TLE2142 or AD8066 with EL8201 buffer. It sound like the best combination of opamps for T1 I ever tried._

 

thx man, what r the differences between 2142 and 8066?
 they sounded crap the first 30 min, now they're amazing...
 i don't really mind the hiss much, if it sounds clear when playing i'm happy... would u say one of those 2 r clearer?


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milford302009* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thx man, what r the differences between 2142 and 8066?
 they sounded crap the first 30 min, now they're amazing...
 i don't really mind the hiss much, if it sounds clear when playing i'm happy... would u say one of those 2 r clearer?_

 

8066 sound a tiny smaller than 2142. But the sound is more tubey and a tiny more emotional than 2142. I can't decide which one is better as each have their own merit. 2142 treble seems to reach higher.
 Both background seems to be as black and silent compare to 744..


----------



## B0b

I just received mine! Haha! I knew it would be smaller than I thought, but it's even smaller than than that!
 I'll test it this evening, but, now, I'd like to know if the gain switch is off when the switch is up or down? By default it comes up.

 Thanks!


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *B0b* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received mine! Haha! I knew it would be smaller than I thought, but it's even smaller than than that!
 I'll test it this evening, but, now, I'd like to know if the gain switch is off when the switch is up or down? By default it comes up.

 Thanks!_

 

Up is high
 Down is low(er)

 Have fun with the amp. It is great.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I will be installing and trying the TLS2141 class-A and TLS2142 today or tomorrow and reporting back soon.


----------



## lhamp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be installing and trying the TLS2141 class-A and TLS2142 today or tomorrow and reporting back soon._

 

I've got the 2141 Class-A module in right now with Bypassed buffers. I believe this will be my choice for quite some time... really happy with it. The 2142 was quite good as well... but on an occasional few tracks (with my um3x/um56) I would hear a bit of sibalence... There was no sibalence whatsoever with the 2141 Class-A.... so that became my tie-breaker. I also believe the 2141 sounded more balanced.

 Both are exceptionally smooth.... great detail... and present the most 3-dimensional soundstage of any opamps I've tried. 

 Like I said, I'm using dummy buffers with the 2141. I know a lot of people like the EL8201. I haven't tried those buffers with the class A module... I tried them with the 2142... while they sounded very smooth and accurate they seemed to remove some of the "fun" from the opamp. Can't remember exactly what it was... perhaps they shrunk the soundstage a bit.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lhamp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... Like I said, I'm using dummy buffers with the 2141. I know a lot of people like the EL8201. I haven't tried those buffers with the class A module... I tried them with the 2142... while they sounded very smooth and accurate they seemed to remove some of the "fun" from the opamp. Can't remember exactly what it was... perhaps they shrunk the soundstage a bit._

 

Whether to use the dummy buffers or the EL8201 buffers with the 2141CA module really is a matter of personal taste and with the fine points of performance with the phones used. Having tried the 2141CA with SE530 phones (my most sensitive IEMs), with both the dummy buffers and the EL8201 buffers, I'll suggest that it might be worth your while to at least try the EL8201 buffers with the 2141CA module, to actually hear which buffer your ear prefers with it.

 What were the particular tracks, BTW, which brought some sibilance from the 2142? Was that with the dummy buffers or the EL8201?


 I am really enjoying the SQ improvements brought by my favorite combo of components in HiFlight's latest Topkit. Lately, it's made the D10 the centerpiece of my stationary listening (via USB with the PAA-1 earbuds which came with the AMP3), over all of my other desktop, home rigs. I'm enjoying the sound using it that much.


----------



## HiFlight

The modified dummy opamps and EL8201 will BOTH be included in the 2141CA Topkit. That way one can choose their favorite combination based on choice of phones and personal preferences.


----------



## lapacho

i'm running on 3move+hd600, will be d10 good replacement of 3m? (better dac/opamps!?)


----------



## lhamp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whether to use the dummy buffers or the EL8201 buffers with the 2141CA module really is a matter of personal taste and with the fine points of performance with the phones used. Having tried the 2141CA with SE530 phones (my most sensitive IEMs), with both the dummy buffers and the EL8201 buffers, I'll suggest that it might be worth your while to at least try the EL8201 buffers with the 2141CA module, to actually hear which buffer your ear prefers with it.

 What were the particular tracks, BTW, which brought some sibilance from the 2142? Was that with the dummy buffers or the EL8201?_

 

yes... just haven't gotten around to trying the EL8201 with the 2141.... I found the 2141 to be so close to the 2142 that I assumed I was going to like the dummy buffers better. Will try the 8201's when I get a chance.

 One of the tracks I heard sibilance on was "Babylon Sisters" off Steely Dan's "Gaucho" album.... not extreme... but when the back-up singers come in.... "Babylon Sister, shake it...." the "Sssssister" is sibilant. Again, it wasn't that extreme... but there's nothing there with the 2141.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who are having hiss issues with their D10 when using very sensitive IEMs or phones, the TLS2141 biased Class A and used with the EL8201 buffers sounds superb, and has zero hiss. As the 2141s are single-channel opamps and need to have 2 of them mounted on an adapter, an alternative is to use the TLS2142, which is a dual-channel opamp that needs no adapter, but can't be biased Class A. 

 The 2141/2142 can also be very successfully run with buffers bypassed. 

 The TLS2141/42 is a very musical opamp with excellent soundstage and detail._

 

Hi Ron,

 are they TLS or TLE2141's? I can only find TLE on Farnell....


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Ron,

 are they TLS or TLE2141's? I can only find TLE on Farnell...._

 

I'm using TLE2142. I believe it typo.


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks for that theory, I ordered the TLE2141's off Farnell today so will give them a try tomorrow hopefully.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that theory, I ordered the TLE2141's off Farnell today so will give them a try tomorrow hopefully._

 

So you going to use 2 to 1 adaptor with each 2141 class A bias?


----------



## SpudHarris

Ah, sorry I don't actually have a D10 I'm using them with my P3+ on Class A adapters. Always looking for new OpAmps to roll hehe


----------



## lhamp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll suggest that it might be worth your while to at least try the EL8201 buffers with the 2141CA module, to actually hear which buffer your ear prefers with it._

 

Just popped the 8201 buffers in (replacing the dummy buffers). Interesting... there actually seems to be a bit more detail there... and (contrary to what I thought) the stage may be a little bigger, not smaller. I'll have more of a listen on the way home... need to decide whether it sounds as musical as the bypassed buffers. Really milking every bit of potential out of the D10. Gotta love it.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lapacho* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm running on 3move+hd600, will be d10 good replacement of 3m? (better dac/opamps!?)_

 

The 3MOVE is one of the best portable amps for the HD600, and will outperform the D10 with that phone. I use the D10 with everything else though, but it just can't match the power and control when using the 300 ohm HD600.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using TLE2142. I believe it typo._

 

Yes, it is TLE2141/42. I had mistakenly written "TLS" on my storage container and failed to read what was printed on the opamps.

 My bad!


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The modified dummy opamps and EL8201 will BOTH be included in the 2141CA Topkit. That way one can choose their favorite combination based on choice of phones and personal preferences._

 

What is done to the dummy opamps to modify them? How does it change the sound?


----------



## madwolf

To make it class A for the TLE2141 What you need to do is to connect a 2.2K or so resistor between PIN 7 and Pin 6 which is the output and the Positive power supply. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is done to the dummy opamps to modify them? How does it change the sound?_


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is done to the dummy opamps to modify them? How does it change the sound?_

 

This was a mod originally posted by Madwolf. I just added another solder link to what he did. It doesn't really add anything additional over Madwolfs mod but is easier for me to make. 

 The mod reduces the output resistance over that of the stock dummy opamp. 

 The Class A mod is as he described in the previous post.


----------



## Daiben

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but i'm having a little trouble getting the DAC to work, once connected via usb the d10 installs and USB audio Codec is available for selection but music continues to play out the laptop speakers. Running windows XP.
 Thanks


----------



## milford302009

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Daiben* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this has already been addressed, but i'm having a little trouble getting the DAC to work, once connected via usb the d10 installs and USB audio Codec is available for selection but music continues to play out the laptop speakers. Running windows XP.
 Thanks_

 

sorry if you've tired this but did u set it as default and restart your media player? and have you tried other players?


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Daiben* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this has already been addressed, but i'm having a little trouble getting the DAC to work, once connected via usb the d10 installs and USB audio Codec is available for selection but music continues to play out the laptop speakers. Running windows XP.
 Thanks_

 

Make sure your player is not running while your D10 driver is being installed. Otherwise, close the player and relunch it.


----------



## lhamp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whether to use the dummy buffers or the EL8201 buffers with the 2141CA module really is a matter of personal taste and with the fine points of performance with the phones used. Having tried the 2141CA with SE530 phones (my most sensitive IEMs), with both the dummy buffers and the EL8201 buffers, I'll suggest that it might be worth your while to at least try the EL8201 buffers with the 2141CA module, to actually hear which buffer your ear prefers with it._

 

After spending a couple of days with the EL8201 buffers I have to agree with you. To my ears and with my equipment (um3x/um56, imod>line in) the 2141CA module with EL8201 buffers sounds better than the 2141 with dummy buffers. The biggest difference I noticed is that everything is smoother... more musical. I have to say this is the best combo I've heard. There's great detail, great separation and a really nice "tube-like" quality to the music.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lhamp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After spending a couple of days with the EL8201 buffers I have to agree with you. To my ears and with my equipment (um3x/um56, imod>line in) the 2141CA module with EL8201 buffers sounds better than the 2141 with dummy buffers. The biggest difference I noticed is that everything is smoother... more musical. I have to say this is the best combo I've heard. There's great detail, great separation and a really nice "tube-like" quality to the music._

 

I'm glad to read that you found the listening using EL8201 buffers to be worth the effort spent to try them with the 2141CA in your D10.


----------



## Daiben

hmm mine may be faulty as it has a tendency to only play through one speakeras well, and takes a bit of fiddling around with the aux socket to get it working. Don't worry I'll speak to ibasso. Cheers for the help anyway.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I played around with the TLE2141 class-A biased opamp kit (and TLE2142) yesterday and today. I found the TLE2141-CA to be very good and fairly equivalent in sound to the AD744 output-bypassed class-A, and somewhat dependant on the buffers used as well. I tried it with several buffers and with bypassed buffers, and I did not like it with bypassed buffers because it sounded duller and less vivid or "alive".

*Buffers tested with TLE2141-CA: Listed in order from dullest to brightest:*

 Bypassed buffers - the sound became dull and lifeless in contrast to when I started with the EL8201 buffers that were still installed for the AD744-OBCA. It's not terrible, but clearly loses some soundstage, ambience and micro-detail and seemed a bit similar to using an OPA2350 with EL8201. I did not like this after becoming used to the previous top kit.

 AD8532 stock buffers - the sound was more energetic and alive than with the bypassed buffers. It was still slightly more laid back vs the other buffers, but the sound quality and timbre/tone was good. I could live with this.

 EL8201 buffers were more energetic, slightly brighter than the stock buffers. It sounds very similar to AD744OBCA with this buffer, and gives strong bass to the ES3X without overdoing it with bassier phones. It actually works much much better with UE11Pro than AD744OBCA in terms of controlling the bass well and bringing out the vocals, and yet also works well with JH13Pro and ES3X without taking away any bass or being too forward. This opamp combo now makes my D10 my best portable amp with my very picky UE11Pro, without hurting the sound with other IEM. This is what I left in my D10.

 LMH6643 which came with D10 - brighter more energetic than EL8201, less bright than AD8616 in this combo, but this buffers offers a plasticky treble in ES3X and sibilance in all three comes up as well. I could not be happy with this and would prefer no buffers to this combo.

 AD8616 from the AD743 topkit - brightest most energetic but despite bringing in some sibilance it does not sound "artificial" like the LMH6643, and it's kinda fun but still colored (less bright than AD8656 which I quit using as buffer months ago). In the end I had to return to the EL8201 to kill the sibilance it introduced, but I could live with this if I had to.

*Buffer tests with TLE2142:*

 EL8201 make it sound a good bit duller than using the 2141CA

 AD8616 buffers are more lively with this opamp, but still not as good as using a TLE2141 or AD744OBCA. If I was using the TLE2142 I would leave the AD8616 in, but I wonder if I should try my AD8656 which I swore I would never use as buffers again because it was edgy and not smooth.

*Hiss:*

 It is indeed quieter than the AD744-OBCA in terms of no-volume hiss with high sensitivity IEM. With the TLE2141-CA and TLE2142 I cannot tell when the ES3X (my biggest hissers) are plugged in if someone else does it while I close my eyes. 

 The hiss in the AD744-OBCA that I just took out was still much less than with the AD743 on a 2:1. With the AD743 I had tried to tolerate the hiss with IEM for a while, where with the AD744-CA it was barely audible to me. To even hear hiss with the AD744-CA I would need to concentrate when I plugged in and unplugged the IEM, and then I could tell a very subtle background hiss was there. The AD746 was even worse and unusable to me.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I just got this kit from HiFlight early in the week and FINALLY got the chance to install it tonight and listen for about an hour. I'll leave my impressions using D10 through my PC's USB with my Sennheiser IE8s (close to 1,000 hours on them).


*Impressions*
 Wow! First impression is that the sound stage is definitely more three dimensional. What I'm digging the most so far is that I can hear much more micro detail and texture in the ambient sounds furthest away from me, at least that is where the extra detail is most noticeable right away. It's like there are now more three dimensional layers built into the music. This is vastly improving my listening experience as I love to feel like I am being engulfed in the music and just floating away in it. Awesome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 Another improvement I am hearing right away is that the background is blacker. With no music playing, I barely start to hear any hiss at absolute full volume, compared to about halfway with stock op amps. I am hearing no hiss whatsoever now while listening even at the highest volumes I can stand. This was one of the areas where I was a little disappointed with my D10 with stock op amps (with IE8 at least). It wasn't bad at all, but low hiss levels would still pull me out of feeling totally immersed in the music on some songs. That is definitely no longer the case. 

 The third improvement I noticed -- this was my main worry about how the kit would perform with my IE8 -- was that it reigns in and controls IE8 bass much more effectively! I'm finding that I have to fidget less with the seal to avoid overpowering bass. I'm listening right now with a moderate seal (best seal possible with SLIGHTLY undersized tips for subtle sound leakage), which is so much easier and more comfortable than constantly fidgeting for the right amount of non-seal. Larry, do you still have your IE8? I'm curious how you would compare this kit to AD8599 with regards to controlling the bass and bringing out the mids and highs for a balanced sound. Based on your comments regarding the others IEMs you mentioned, I imagine it would compare favorably. 

 Overall, I am extremely impressed with this kit and would seriously recommend it, especially to IE8 owners. I'll leave more impressions later if anything new and substantial stands out. 

 HiFlight, you are the man. Many thanks for recommending this when I came to you for AD8599.


----------



## skynetman

What is the best opamp+buffers combo to increase listening max volume with bright headphones?
 I have AKG 271 MKII that are a bit hard to drive. I'd like to use the amp at no more than 3/4 of its max level.
 AFAIK gain in opamps is fixed with Resistors right?
 So does max power in mW affect listening volume or is it only useful for low impedance headphones?

 Thx


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

would the d10 be good for the hd650? if not what would be?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hawaiiancerveza* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_would the d10 be good for the hd650? if not what would be?_

 

The D10 will work but for more voltage swing, which will give you better dynamics on louder passages (headroom), the P3+ might be a better choice. Bass response would be more controlled and I think you would notice a deeper and wider stage due to the demands of the HD650's being better met. The D10 works great with my Ultrasone Ed. 9 but it does not require as much power to get good results.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D10 will work but for more voltage swing, which will give you better dynamics on louder passages (headroom), the P3+ might be a better choice. Bass response would be more controlled and I think you would notice a deeper and wider stage due to the demands of the HD650's being better met. The D10 works great with my Ultrasone Ed. 9 but it does not require as much power to get good results._

 

Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Would you say that the Sen IE8 work well with the d10? I don't have enough money to get a full amp...lol could you post up a link of the amp? 
 Thanxs


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skynetman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the best opamp+buffers combo to increase listening max volume with bright headphones?
 I have AKG 271 MKII that are a bit hard to drive. I'd like to use the amp at no more than 3/4 of its max level.
 AFAIK gain in opamps is fixed with Resistors right?
 So does max power in mW affect listening volume or is it only useful for low impedance headphones?

 Thx 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Don't have any bright headphones to tame and haven't really heard a dark opamp combo to fix bright phones. Well, I recently found the TLE2141CA to sound duller and less energetic when used without buffers, but I can't say that would work for you (or me) without trying some bright phones. You should find the stock opamps to be fairly balanced and not bright while being warm sounding, so it's worth a try. 

 Don't know about gain and resistors - to me gain is more of an issue with how loud is the input signal and do you need to boost it, rather than affecting power output. Power output is determined by the voltage supplied to the amp and the output of the opamp being used.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hawaiiancerveza* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_would the d10 be good for the hd650? if not what would be?_

 

I would probably sound fine (I like HD600 more than HD650), but it will be fairly underpowered for playing louder than moderate volumes. It wont let you rock out, but some nice jazz or classical at normal volumes wont be bad. You could change opamps to tune the sound to match even better, but the voltage limitations of the D10 will still hold you back. I find the 3MOVE to be my most powerful portable amp where the HD600 don't make me feel like I am a few notches below optimal power.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TLE2141-CA:
 EL8201 buffers were more energetic, slightly brighter than the stock buffers. It sounds very similar to AD744OBCA with this buffer, and gives strong bass to the ES3X without overdoing it with bassier phones. It actually works much much better with UE11Pro than AD744OBCA in terms of controlling the bass well and bringing out the vocals, and yet also works well with JH13Pro and ES3X without taking away any bass or being too forward. This opamp combo now makes my D10 my best portable amp with my very picky UE11Pro, without hurting the sound with other IEM. This is what I left in my D10._

 

Many thanks for the detailed impressions!!!
 Not using IEMs I would be interested to know whether changing AD744OBCA to LE2141-CA (both with EL8201 buffers) will be an audible step with the Grados, HF2 or RS1.
 Friendly Greetings!


----------



## Gbjerke

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hawaiiancerveza* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Would you say that the Sen IE8 work well with the d10? I don't have enough money to get a full amp...lol could you post up a link of the amp? 
 Thanxs_

 

The P3+ works great with the IE8. haven't compared it to the D10. BUF634 tightens the bass, allowing me to get a deeper seal without it overpowering. it would be a lot better for the 650s than the D10. The d10 has a rechardgable...what 3-4 volt batter, the P3+ has 9V.

 if your gonna use it with your computer, it wouldn't be to far of a dumb idea to get the D10 as well, for the DAC only. as thats the real superb feature of the D10. the amp is so so

iBasso
iBasso
iBasso


----------



## Sid-Fi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gbjerke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The P3+ works great with the IE8. haven't compared it to the D10. BUF634 tightens the bass, allowing me to get a deeper seal without it overpowering. it would be a lot better for the 650s than the D10. The d10 has a rechardgable...what 3-4 volt batter, the P3+ has 9V.

 if your gonna use it with your computer, it wouldn't be to far of a dumb idea to get the D10 as well, for the DAC only. as thats the real superb feature of the D10. the amp is so so

iBasso
iBasso
iBasso_

 

If you're on a budget, I think D10 would be a great buy to start with. It will sound great all by itself with a PC through USB and still pretty good as an amp alone, especially if you tailor op amps for your phones (I've read about more powerful op amps that will provide more juice). Then later on you when you can afford it, you can buy a more powerful amp and use it through D10's DAC like Gbjerke recommended. This is why I bought D10, cuz I knew the DAC was good enough to scale really well and last me a long time while still giving me a decent amp in the meantime.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gbjerke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The P3+ works great with the IE8. haven't compared it to the D10. BUF634 tightens the bass, allowing me to get a deeper seal without it overpowering. it would be a lot better for the 650s than the D10. The d10 has a rechardgable...what 3-4 volt batter, the P3+ has 9V.

 if your gonna use it with your computer, it wouldn't be to far of a dumb idea to get the D10 as well, for the DAC only. as thats the real superb feature of the D10. the amp is so so

iBasso
iBasso
iBasso_

 

YA thanks for the info. Im currently running the d10 with my macbook which has a basic sound card to begin with. I ask because if the 650 wouldn't be able to perform well with the d10 or the IE8 I'll just have to use my srh840 until I have the money to upgrade.

 As far as that goes I'd like to find a headphone or IE that can perform similar to the 650 or the IE8 but I think Im just asking for too much....


----------



## Sid-Fi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hawaiiancerveza* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_YA thanks for the info. Im currently running the d10 with my macbook which has a basic sound card to begin with. I ask because if the 650 wouldn't be able to perform well with the d10 or the IE8 I'll just have to use my srh840 until I have the money to upgrade.

 As far as that goes I'd like to find a headphone or IE that can perform similar to the 650 or the IE8 but I think Im just asking for too much...._

 

D10 is performing outstanding with my IE8, especially with the top kit that I just got from HiFlight. I left my impressions of this combo a few posts back. HeadphoneAddict also commented on this kit with various IEM all of which sounded great to him.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many thanks for the detailed impressions!!!
 Not using IEMs I would be interested to know whether changing AD744OBCA to LE2141-CA (both with EL8201 buffers) will be an audible step with the Grados, HF2 or RS1.
 Friendly Greetings!_

 

I'll have to try it later to see if it does those better - based on how close it is to the last topkit I think it will be just fine, but I just can't say that you should change from the AD744OBCA yet.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sid-Fi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_D10 is performing outstanding with my IE8, especially with the top kit that I just got from HiFlight. I left my impressions of this combo a few posts back. HeadphoneAddict also commented on this kit with various IEM all of which sounded great to him._

 

THanks all of you for helping. I think Im gna look for a IE8!


----------



## punkaroo

I LOVE RON!

 I bought the TLS2142 kit with super dummy buffers and just installed it a few minutes ago. My D10 sounds fuller, richer and has more bass. It's not overwhelming; it's PERFECT!


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll have to try it later to see if it does those better - based on how close it is to the last topkit I think it will be just fine, but I just can't say that you should change from the AD744OBCA yet._

 

Thanks for the reply.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I LOVE RON!

 I bought the TLS2142 kit with super dummy buffers and just installed it a few minutes ago. My D10 sounds fuller, richer and has more bass. It's not overwhelming; it's PERFECT!_

 

TLE2142/2141CA with EL8201/AD8616 combo is hard to beat imo. AD744OBCA/EL8201 and AD743/AD8618 is too hissy for IEM


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TLE2142/2141CA with EL8201/AD8616 combo is hard to beat imo. AD744OBCA/EL8201 and AD743/AD8618 is too hissy for IEM_

 

I'm currently using AD744OBCA/EL8201. On either Ety ER4S or ER4P, I don't hear any hiss at all. However, these two Etys are not very sensitive.


----------



## Optiplex

I just noticed on the iBasso website that they changed the coupling caps from NCC ASF to Nichicon MUSE FX on the newest batch....any idea how this would (positively or negatively) impact the sound/ signature?

 Thanks.


----------



## jamato8

They upgrade when they feel the sound will be improved.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm currently using AD744OBCA/EL8201. On either Ety ER4S or ER4P, I don't hear any hiss at all. However, these two Etys are not very sensitive._

 

Ety are not sensitive enough to pick up the hiss. Most custom and top line iem like um3x, e500 are damm sensitive (Not saying Er4 are not top iem)


----------



## qusp

theory 87: have you played around with modding the coupling caps?? I am half way through installing the upgraded BG power rail caps, but wondered if I should bother bypassing the output coupling caps with .1uf BG NXHQ while i'm there???


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Optiplex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just noticed on the iBasso website that they changed the coupling caps from NCC ASF to Nichicon MUSE FX on the newest batch....any idea how this would (positively or negatively) impact the sound/ signature?

 Thanks._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They upgrade when they feel the sound will be improved._

 

Good, cause I just ordered one on Friday.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_theory 87: have you played around with modding the coupling caps?? I am half way through installing the upgraded BG power rail caps, but wondered if I should bother bypassing the output coupling caps with .1uf BG NXHQ while i'm there???_

 

here and here

 BTW, those looking at TLE2142/2141 with EL8201, AD8066 with EL8201 is very comparable too with a little more tube like sound.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_here and here

 BTW, those looking at TLE2142/2141 with EL8201, AD8066 with EL8201 is very comparable too with a little more tube like sound.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Regarding your comment in the link about buffers: Single channel opamps such as BUF634, AD797, etc will not work in the D10, as dual-channel opamps are required.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Regarding your comment in the link about buffers: Single channel opamps such as BUF634, AD797, etc will not work in the D10, as dual-channel opamps are required._

 

I know. That was posted quite a long time ago


----------



## madwolf

LME49600 are single channel OP-AMP, They are almost identical to BUF634. 
 I have LME49600 working on my D10. They are the TO-220 in footprint. 

 I have just receive my BUF634 (SOIC version), will make it work on my D10 by the end of this week. But will need special adapter or rework. Still thinking what the best way to go about it. 

 I friend of mine just handle me some OPA1611 and OPA1612. *&@^#%# This is very hot, as in it was only release 1 or 2 months ago and it not available anywhere. I do not think you could purchase it anywhere, except direct. 

 I have 2*OPA1611 on a brown dog and can confirm that it sound better than a TLE2142. Same sweetness in the mids but without the slight sibilance in the high. Will be tring out Class A TLE2141/2 when I have the time. The OPA1611 is the audio version of the OPA211. 2*OPA211 works very well on the D10 as well.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LME49600 are single channel OP-AMP, They are almost identical to BUF634. 
 I have LME49600 working on my D10. They are the TO-220 in footprint. 

 I have just receive my BUF634 (SOIC version), will make it work on my D10 by the end of this week. But will need special adapter or rework. Still thinking what the best way to go about it. 

 I friend of mine just handle me some OPA1611 and OPA1612. *&@^#%# This is very hot, as in it was only release 1 or 2 months ago and it not available anywhere. I do not think you could purchase it anywhere, except direct. 

 I have 2*OPA1611 on a brown dog and can confirm that it sound better than a TLE2142. Same sweetness in the mids but without the slight sibilance in the high. Will be tring out Class A TLE2141/2 when I have the time. The OPA1611 is the audio version of the OPA211. 2*OPA211 works very well on the D10 as well._

 

Do feedback on the buf634. But my impression is it may not work well as D10 voltage is quite low...
 U can buy some browndog to use with buf634
Single-to-dual Op-Amp Adapter (p/n 020302)

 If you are ordering the browndog, do let me know. I may want to buy some too


----------



## bakhtiar

*madwolf*
 I really enjoying your opamps adventures. Reading the OPA1611/2 datasheets already make me excited. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now, the with OPA1611/2, how about the noise floor, especially with USB input or USB charging circuit is ON ? I wish I can get some from you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....


----------



## madwolf

Yes this adapter will work. In fact this is a very neat solution if you want to run 2nos of 634 per channel. Initially I only wanted to use 1 634 per channel. but it seem 2 is possible now. Just need another wire for high bandwidth setting (some people here refer it as Hi-C configuration). 

*theory_87*: How many adapters do you need ? 

 So far from my testing all op-amp that have a min working voltage of 4.5v worked on the D10 (AD744,AD746,AD8599,OPA211) , However op-amp with min voltage of 5v works only at time (LMH6622, LMH 6655, LMH6672, ADA4899, ADA4857) and in cases (LM4562, LME49722) would fail instantly. OPA2132, OPA2134, OPA2227, OPA2228 works on the D10 and these require a min voltage of 5 

 Both LME49600 and Buf 634 min working voltage is 4.5V (Yes we are cutting it thin). From my reasoning above I expect buf634 to work, and also sound very close or similar to LME49600. (Check the 2 data sheet side by side if you have not and surprise yourself). But the SOIC version would have a chance to fit inside the D10 with case. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do feedback on the buf634. But my impression is it may not work well as D10 voltage is quite low...
 U can buy some browndog to use with buf634
Single-to-dual Op-Amp Adapter (p/n 020302)

 If you are ordering the browndog, do let me know. I may want to buy some too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## qusp

I think BUF634 works, but only for a couple of hours, I remember Ron had this issue; you dont seriously think no-one has tried it do you?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I have seen you do some crazy stuff with opamps and know you are responsible for much of the configs we are running as reference now (with a few tweaks) so I guess you have as much chance as anyone of getting it happening. consider me very interested in your findings. even though I consider them to be overpriced, there is little doubt as to their potential. 

 running RON's new class A 2141 with EL8201 and i'm very impressed I must say, bass detail, air and errrmm dexterity is the best word I can think of for it; is exceptional, with JH13, i expect it to get even better once the Blackgates settle, as the sound is still a little incoherent, when it all falls together i'll be a happy man. 

 I took a cue from you mate, ordered some OPA1611A and OPA1612A, some OPA211A (the tiny PITA DFN-8 version) as well as some PCM1792A and PCM1794A, plus a few other bits and pieces. for playing around. now one thing I noticed is how similar OPA211ID and OPA1611AID are, being that the 1611/1612 are a lower grade than the 211ID I wonder if they will basically end up performing the same. I guess i'll let my ears be the judge of that. with the 1611 having balanced input and the PCM1794A having balanced output, could make for an interesting little device if I get around it it. thats a long road for someone of my abilities in this area, but should be a bit of fun, if even using the dacs to upgrade an existing design with a compatible pin designation and power demands


----------



## sumtory

Hello there,

 It took me like 3 weeks to finish reading everything on this thread. I just got my D10 a week ago. However, it is not an iBasso, it is a Mini-Audio D-10!!!

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/2324/d103i.jpg

 Mini-Audio is the same manufacturer as iBasso, Mini-Audio is like the brand name for the China market. The thing is basically the same as the iBasso one except it comes with a shorter 10cm optical cable.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4299/d102j.jpg

 Also, the capacitor right beside the battery is changed into a single blackgate capacitor rated 1000uf, 6.3V. 

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2406/d101.jpg

 I don't know the circuit of the D10, but it is strange to me that my D10 only has 1 capacitor rather than 2, there must be a change in the circuit somewhere. Too bad I don't have a iBasso D10 to compare the sound with. Just wanted to let you all know there's such a thing called Mini-Audio D10 exist and I am enjoying it!!!


----------



## iriverdude

How much is the Mini-Audio D-10? Website?


----------



## hvu

Looks interesting, how does it sound?


----------



## theory_87

Care to show the underneath of the board?


----------



## sumtory

They are the same price as the iBasso. I bought it from a local store, the shop owner claimed that it is a limited edition and they are not available from iBasso web site. It is funny that the shop don't sell iBasso D10, but they got other models like the D2 and other stuff.


----------



## sumtory

Here you go.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5...assod10014.jpg


----------



## LeeSC

According to this site, it says the 4 differences between the original D10 and the Mini-Audio iBasso D10 are:

 1./ a hand made 10cm optical cable
 2./ BG 1000uF/6.3V (Bypass?)
 3./ LOGO: mini audio D10
 4./ Only 30 unit available and each has a serial number.


----------



## theory_87

I'm still wondering how to install that 1000uf BG cap on D10?


----------



## qusp

me too even though i've seen the pic, also wondering about the choice to install 1 x BG for the rails, seems impossible with the current D10 layout 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think it must be altered and why would this change be made?? surely 2 x BG of lower value would be superior?? 

 BTW I tell you what texas instruments has really got it going on!! I ordered my parts from them not even 48 hrs ago, they were packed and shipped within an hour of making the order and they arrived this morning!! that has got to be the most efficient order I have ever made and by a long shot. so just soldering in the OPA1612 now to try it out; I still need to go pick up some SMD or small metal film resistors for the class A mod of OPA1611 qand OPA211. time to start searching for a suitable low power dac design to adapt for portable use, utilizing the PCM1794A (1 per channel)


----------



## jonathanjong

More annoyingly naive questions about connecting D10 to stuff:

 Can I plug a PCDP via optical (assuming it has an optical out, like many of the Sonys do) to the D10, then connect the D10 to a receiver via coaxial? Like, I can get a 2-RCA-to-1-RCA cable, and plug the 2 into the receiver's CD ports and the 1 into the D10, right? Or...no?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonathanjong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_More annoyingly naive questions about connecting D10 to stuff:

 Can I plug a PCDP via optical (assuming it has an optical out, like many of the Sonys do) to the D10, then connect the D10 to a receiver via coaxial? Like, I can get a 2-RCA-to-1-RCA cable, and plug the 2 into the receiver's CD ports and the 1 into the D10, right? Or...no?_

 

The D10's coax is an input. The only way to connect the D10 to a receiver is through its line out.

 I think you meant a mini-cable at one end that you connect to the D10's aux out that Y's to an RCA left-right? Then yes, that will work.


----------



## jonathanjong

Ah, yes. Well, that's _not_ what I meant because I'm an idiot, but that achieves what I want. I think. So, the chain goes:

 PCDP --optical to optical--> iBasso --AUX IN/OUT to 2 RCA--> Receiver --headphone out--> Headphones. 

 i.e., I can't use the D10s coaxial port. Yea?


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonathanjong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, yes. Well, that's not what I meant because I'm an idiot, but that achieves what I want. I think. So, the chain goes:

 PCDP --optical to optical--> iBasso --AUX IN/OUT to 2 RCA--> Receiver --headphone out--> Headphones. 

 i.e., I can't use the D10s coaxial port. Yea?_

 

That will be a possible chain.
 Will the receiver headphone out be better than the D10 headphone out?

 The coax of the iBasso is a digital in. You can connect i.e. a digital out (when it is coax) of a cd/dvd player there.


----------



## jonathanjong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will the receiver headphone out be better than the D10 headphone out?_

 

That's what I'd like to know. But there's also the matter of convenience, since I won't have to use a 6.35mm-to-3.5mm adaptor if I use the receiver headphone in.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The coax of the iBasso is a digital in. You can connect i.e. a digital out (when it is coax) of a cd/dvd player there._

 

Ah, so instead of an optical cable between the PCDP and iBasso, I can use coax (assuming that the PCDP allows this).


----------



## qusp

^^ correct, both coax digital and optical digital input are SPDIF connections, with the coax input/implementation being slightly superior IMO, so if your PCDP has coaxial digital output (perhaps it may be on mono minijack) you can connect the resulting signal to the D10 and the D10 AUX/Line out to your receiver. seems like a lot of effort to me though


----------



## freeride1685

I recently purchased a D10 about a week and a half ago. Over the course of that time I have had it playing on a brand new install of Foobar to track the progress. I have logged just about 5 days, which is around 120 hours or so.

 I originally started playing it with the AD8656 and dummy buffers. I know I should have left it stock at first but I was looking for a wide, spacious soundstage and heard reports that this combo was great for that.

 As time has gone by, the highs have become much more mellow, smooth, less fatiguing. They seem to be more like the high frequency noises emanating from the objects that are producing the lower notes, suggesting that the sound is more congruent and matches up better throughout the entire frequency spectrum. This is very nice, as the bass has also strengthened and become much more punchy (read: instantaneous) and clean.

 I got bored and decided to switch back the stock op-amp and put the two AD8656 in the buffer slots. I am thrilled that this new combination delivers much more air and space and also seems to have a more focused soundstage, bettering my ability to place everything.

 I told my friends about this and let one listen through it on my Audio Technica ATH-M50's and he was as impressed as me. I continually turn around in my local coffee shop because it seems as though there is someone right behind or next to me! I also keep taking off my phones to check external volume levels because it seems almost impossible that I could be blasting concert level music through my head without anyone hearing a thing! This setup is incredible and only cost me about $400 altogether.


 Note to USB users:

 you may want to invest in better quality USB and ASIO drivers for your computer in order to get the best sound out of this device. I bought some drivers from AQVOX (expensive, at 99 Euro) but they definitely brought the sound of the USB DAC on par with optical. This is great news, as my laptop does not have an spdif out, but sounds just about as good as my home rig.


----------



## qusp

well i'm using a double shielded pure silver USB (SCSCAg) with asio on my mac and it still falls short of coax and optical IMO. moreso when playing hirez source material of course. D10 still sounds great via USB though, dont get me wrong.


----------



## bakhtiar

I just using a standard/cheap USB cable with ferrite core, and it is just good enough for me. As I mentioned earlier, my UM3Xs can pick-up the noise floor (no data, max vol), when the D10's start charging. 

 I also using GNU/Linux's ALSA USB sound driver and bypassing the default _dmix_ module, and I got exact sampling frequency (fs), as the original source. By default, _dmix_ enabled, it the fs is fixed to 48kHz. 

 But the sound via SPDIF is the BEST.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freeride1685* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...I got bored and decided to switch back the stock op-amp and put the two AD8656 in the buffer slots. I am thrilled that this new combination delivers much more air and space and also seems to have a more focused soundstage, bettering my ability to place everything..._

 

I tried this for a while but my friend thought it sounded rougher or edgier through his Westone ES3X than I did.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freeride1685* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...Note to USB users:

 you may want to invest in better quality USB and ASIO drivers for your computer in order to get the best sound out of this device. I bought some drivers from AQVOX (expensive, at 99 Euro) but they definitely brought the sound of the USB DAC on par with optical. This is great news, as my laptop does not have an spdif out, but sounds just about as good as my home rig._

 

On the Mac I haven't found a big change with a cryo'd $180 USB cable from Guitar Player or Whiplash Audio, I forget which supplied it with a review DAC. 

 Qusp, I don't know anything about ASIO drivers for the Mac though, isn't that just for PC?


----------



## freeride1685

i am still using my stock USB cable as well, but did notice an improvement in clarity and soundstage placement when switching drivers. perhaps this can be contributed to placebo effect but either way i am pretty thrilled.

 i have considered upgrading to a kimber USB cable, and for only about $50 i don't think there is a huge loss if it doesn't provide a huge improvement. i will at least be confident that things will not get any worse and if i upgrade my phones in the future, perhaps there will be some more to be gained.


----------



## freeride1685

deleted


----------



## jamato8

I am using the new TopKit and WOW. For those who want detail And space, this gets down to the nitty gritty. The sound is very live and resolving. The D10 really opens up and these opamps just go to show the ability of the D10 and the good choice they are with this amp.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am using the new TopKit and WOW. For those who want detail And space, this gets down to the nitty gritty. The sound is very live and resolving. The D10 really opens up and these opamps just go to show the ability of the D10 and the good choice they are with this amp._

 

I think it sounds about as good as it's ever gonna be now.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it sounds about as good as it's ever gonna be now._

 

The "new" Topkit is the 744?


----------



## jamato8

TLE2141-CA and EL8201 as a buffer I assume is the TopKit but I could be wrong but I am enjoying it.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof37* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The "new" Topkit is the 744?_

 

The latest and probably final Topkit for the D10 is composed of a pair of TLE2141s mounted on a 2 to 1 adapter and modified to run Class A bias. The buffers are the excellent EL8201 and a set of modified dummy opamps are also included. The dummy buffers change the SQ a bit. Some prefer the dummies, others the EL8201s. This combination does not hiss even when used with very sensitive IEMs. 

 The AD744OBCA Topkit sounds very good with most phones, but some users have reported hiss and/or some sibilance when using sensitive IEMs or phones.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The latest and probably final Topkit for the D10 is composed of a pair of TLE2141s mounted on a 2 to 1 adapter and modified to run Class A bias. The buffers are the excellent EL8201 and a set of modified dummy opamps are also included. The dummy buffers change the SQ a bit. Some prefer the dummies, others the EL8201s._

 

What's the difference with/without the buffers? I haven't even been around my portable rig enough to mount the 744 kit I have, heh. I am a master procrastinator.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woof37* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the difference with/without the buffers? I haven't even been around my portable rig enough to mount the 744 kit I have, heh. I am a master procrastinator._

 

There are some differences in soundstage and bass impact seems to be a bit stronger without buffers, but overall tonal balance and that elusive sense of realism is greater with the EL8201 buffers, IMO.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are some differences in soundstage and bass impact seems to be a bit stronger without buffers, but overall tonal balance and that elusive sense of realism is greater with the EL8201 buffers, IMO._

 

Soundstage using the TLE2141 Class-A is better with the EL8201 buffers, and it is less bright and open/airy without them - so with a bright IEM the dummy buffers might be a better choice. For me this new top kit is the FIRST one to sound good with all three flagship custom IEM - the UE11Pro, JH13Pro and ES3X. Usually what is good for the ES3X and JH13Pro isn't very good with the UE11Pro, and visa versa. Now the problem is solved!

 And, it's the first one to sound decent with the IE8 without sounding too bright with everything else.


----------



## jamato8

I prefer the sound with the buffers. I find that without the bass is slightly lacking and there is a thinness to the sound I don't enjoy. With the EL8201 buffers the sound fills out and dynamics improve. There is a transparency that is excellent with dummy buffers but I find this may because there is lacking upper bass and to my ear, low bass impact. 

 The soundstage is big and airy with a sound you can get lost in. Great fun!


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freeride1685* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am still using my stock USB cable as well, but did notice an improvement in clarity and soundstage placement when switching drivers. perhaps this can be contributed to placebo effect but either way i am pretty thrilled.

 i have considered upgrading to a kimber USB cable, and for only about $50 i don't think there is a huge loss if it doesn't provide a huge improvement. i will at least be confident that things will not get any worse and if i upgrade my phones in the future, perhaps there will be some more to be gained._

 

I do hear a difference between some USB cables, and I thought that the sound quality improvements introduced with the Kimber USB cable were worth the cost of the cable. In fact, likely a few months into the future when I have a bit more funds than I do right now, I'll likely add a $200 USB Spotlight Whiplash Audio Locus Design cable. From my experience in the past, when there's more in a USB cable, I hear it. At that time, I'll also keep the AQVOX USB ASIO driver in mind to squeeze the most from my D10 via USB. I've always enjoyed the difference when I've been able to by-pass the Windows mixer in the audio signal path in the computer.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do hear a difference between some USB cables, and I thought that the sound quality improvements introduced with the Kimber USB cable were worth the cost of the cable. In fact, likely a few months into the future when I have a bit more funds than I do right now, I'll likely add a $200 USB Spotlight Whiplash Audio Locus Design cable. From my experience in the past, when there's more in a USB cable, I hear it. At that time, I'll also keep the AQVOX USB ASIO driver in mind to squeeze the most from my D10 via USB. I've always enjoyed the difference when I've been able to by-pass the Windows mixer in the audio signal path in the computer._

 

I'll admit when I tried the $200 Locus Design Spotlight I didn't try it on my best USB DACs (PS Audio and Apogee), but with the CARAT-TOPAZ and D10 I didn't think it made much of a difference. The improvements may be beyond the ability of an inexpensive USB DAC to resolve.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll admit when I tried the $200 Locus Design Spotlight I didn't try it on my best USB DACs (PS Audio and Apogee), but with the CARAT-TOPAZ and D10 I didn't think it made much of a difference. The improvements may be beyond the ability of an inexpensive USB DAC to resolve._

 

I'm interested in the USB cable to which you compared the Locus Design Spotlight (and between the two of which noticed not much difference).

 I've heard a difference with USB cables back when I was using an MASantos-built Alien USB DAC, where the Monster "Ultimate Performance" (heavier construction) cable introduced really noticeable improvements in sound quality over an A-to-B USB cable that came with a Creative USB sound card I had purchased.

 With the D10, I've heard:
 Kimber USB cable > a heavier USB cable that came with a WD USB drive > D10 stock USB cable = Monster "High Performance" A-to-miniB USB cable.
 I have to say, though, that I believe I'm already well into the diminishing returns branch of the Benefit vs Cost curve with the Kimber.

 I may want to reconsider the Locus Design Spotlight purchase (and use those funds toward a HiSoundAudio Studio II when that product is offered). The main competition for my listening time using the D10 these days comes from the AMP3.

 I would like to know, though, what USB cable it was to which you compared the Locus Design Spotlight USB cable.


----------



## mikenyc

Just successfully rolled the black gates into my D10. I was a EE undergrad but have not soldered anything in 20+ years. Managed to do this with my feeble fine motor skills and poor eyesight. I already like them after only 30 hours of burn-in. Really look forward to hearing these improve. Can already hear the speed that people talk about.

 Thanks to everyone for the tips and tricks. I plan on consolidating these into a single post along with a few things I discovered (by making a few mistakes!). I am running the 743/8616 top kit and think that I will have to buy this latest one. 

 As an aside, rhw recruited me from a Yammy thread (kind of). I was dead set on buying a Yammy and he noticed the D10 in my signature. Pointed me to a couple of specific pages in this thread and the next thing I knew I had caps on order from Parts Connexion (who by the way is great). Happy to be aboard. This is fun stuff.


----------



## freeride1685

i have just purchased HiFlight's latest topkit and am interested in learning more about other mods, including the black gate caps. perhaps we can open up this discussion to any and all other mods that people have successfully performed (or unsuccessfully performed...please offer up words of warning!) on their D10s.

 below is a list of modification categories that i have learned of that seem to demonstrate a noticeable and cost-effective gain in performance on the D10:

 - rolled op-amp/buffers
 - alternative capacitors
 - alternative cables
 - alternative software....e.g. media players/drivers

 has anyone tried mods related to the following:

 - battery swap
 - terminal/connector swap
 - application of contact enhancer (to connectors and/or op-amp/buffer pins)
 - volume pot swap
 - DAC swap

 i know this is a bit of a broad category and perhaps suitable for another thread but i thought this was as good a place as any to talk about ways to "max" out this little box of magic.


----------



## qusp

I think a new thread is in order for the above post freeride1685, that is simply too much of a wide topic to cover in here without too much OT; only 3 I havent done are battery, volume pot and DAC swap, but as I said I think it better in another thread


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freeride1685* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have just purchased HiFlight's latest topkit and am interested in learning more about other mods, including the black gate caps. perhaps we can open up this discussion to any and all other mods that people have successfully performed (or unsuccessfully performed...please offer up words of warning!) on their D10s.

 below is a list of modification categories that i have learned of that seem to demonstrate a noticeable and cost-effective gain in performance on the D10:

 - rolled op-amp/buffers
 - alternative capacitors
 - alternative cables
 - alternative software....e.g. media players/drivers

 has anyone tried mods related to the following:

 - battery swap
 - terminal/connector swap
 - application of contact enhancer (to connectors and/or op-amp/buffer pins)
 - volume pot swap
 - DAC swap

 i know this is a bit of a broad category and perhaps suitable for another thread but i thought this was as good a place as any to talk about ways to "max" out this little box of magic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Try them and let us know. The latest pot on the D10 is an Alps but I guess you could try digital but I don't care to do that. Maybe finding the lowest internal resistance battery might be worthwhile, if you can get the stats on one. I used to use contact enhancer but find that over time it degrades and I have used them all (well almost all) over the years. Dac swap? I don't care to mess with all the contact unless I have a wave desoldering device, which I don't. I then would want to socket and I don't think there is room for that. I guess if a proven dac is truly superior then a SMD dac would be ok but let us know. :^)


----------



## freeride1685

well, from the previous posts, I have a sense that I am not as knowledgeable as i initially assumed, but that is a welcoming and expected conclusion at this point in my experience on head-fi!

 those of you who asked questions regarding further experience relating to batteries, etc., in previous posts....i will do my very best to create and report on another new post, regarding updates to the D10!


----------



## freeride1685

Iwant to let everybody know that I have created a new thread dedicated to all sorts of iBasso D10 modifications. I love nicknames and slang as much as anyone but it sure makes a barrier of entry to the audiophile world when nobody un-initiated knows what to call anything!!! As suggested, I will reiterate that this thread is for the iBasso D10 Cobra!

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/i...ations-448183/


----------



## manuel74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW I tell you what texas instruments has really got it going on!! I ordered my parts from them not even 48 hrs ago, they were packed and shipped within an hour of making the order and they arrived this morning!! that has got to be the most efficient order I have ever made and by a long shot. so just soldering in the OPA1612 now to try it out; I still need to go pick up some SMD or small metal film resistors for the class A mod of OPA1611 qand OPA211. time to start searching for a suitable low power dac design to adapt for portable use, utilizing the PCM1794A (1 per channel)_

 

Qusp any news on your OPA1612 ?
 Have you tried it ?

 bye
 Manuel


----------



## woolnerc

iv got the D10 and the cable with the ipod dock fitting at one end from ibasso.
 when i plug it into the ibasso aux Line in... nothing the iphone/ipod plays from its tiny internal speakers. niether will link up to the D10.

 iv try various combos. headphones plugged in first/last, after power is on before.
 the rest wort fine..usb, octical ...

 any ideas


----------



## jamato8

Did you turn the power of the D10 on after you plugged in the iPod? Sometimes I have to turn the power off and back on.


----------



## woolnerc

iv done alittle of everything, even resetting the op amp and buffers to the original. removed the battery plug for a few sec, ahh. it goes back tomorow. all hail the Apogee Duet. hope that things better as a amp/dac for my mbp set up. will drive my 325is. unless the d10 fixes itself in the next 8 hours


----------



## HiFlight

Have you tried another source such as a portable CD player to verify whether the problem is with the D10 or with the LOD. 

 Also, make sure that the USB and Optical cables are UNPLUGGED when using the Aux Input, as the they will override, even with no signal present.


----------



## woolnerc

yep all was unplugged. the line works with any source including, iphone ipod touch nano ,mac book ect with the normal headphone jack input.
 its not the cable as it the second one as i returned the first one that also did this. the fuction of the iphone......ect works with all its function. it work the irst time i used it untill i unplugged it. then not again. everything thing else ie optic perfect. wierd. 6 hours till the post office opens, and then rise duet, rise.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *woolnerc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iv done alittle of everything, even resetting the op amp and buffers to the original. removed the battery plug for a few sec, ahh. it goes back tomorow. all hail the Apogee Duet. hope that things better as a amp/dac for my mbp set up. will drive my 325is. unless the d10 fixes itself in the next 8 hours_

 

*The problem is with the LOD* - some LOD do not have the correct pins shorted to tell the iPhone to switch from speaker to line out. Some newer iPods have the same issue with being incompatible with LOD made for the older iPods. If the iPhone is making noise, then it is the dock that is nad. If the iPhone is silent with the LOD, and the D10 is still not playing music, then turn the D10 on and off with no USB or optical cable plugged in.

 I compared the Apogee and D10 side by side and they were on a similar level in terms of sound quality.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manuel74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Qusp any news on your OPA1612 ?
 Have you tried it ?

 bye
 Manuel_

 

yes.... just now I am using 2 x OPA1611(IA)/EL8201 and OMG!! I think I have a new contender for my favorite combo, I need to spend more time with this combo, but so far without switching back to the 4214CA (new class a topkit) I do feel that the topkit has a fight on its hands at least to these ears and with my gear. I havent tried with a variety of cans at all yet, so maybe not as consistent across the board, but with OPA1611(x2)/EL8201 buffers there is zero hiss with JH13, great bass slam and immediacy, beautiful and delicate shimmering highs, wonderfully textured mids and the widest/deepest soundstage I have heard directly out of the D10 amp section (yes perhaps bigger than topkit). power/drive seems about on par with the topkit combo, I have some OPA211 arriving in a couple of days, will see how similar they really are, will mod to class A. 

 I am still unsure if the mids are just a tiny tiny bit recessed, which could explain the wider more expansive stage, will find out after more listening, but I dont think so, seems overall pretty flat across the range, with no gaps or dips to mention, very well matched to the JH13. the speed even seems perfectly matched, i'm not sure I want to put the topkit back in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 they really have my toes/fingers tapping, very musical/engaging, yet very detailed sounding.

 bear in mind I also have the blackgate mods, which is starting to burn in nicely now at about 150hrs. i'm wondering how the 1612 will go in buffer, so I soldered a couple up to test out, before I do ron, can you see anything in the spec of the OPA1612 that might cause issues in buffer?? its rail to rail 

 @woolnerc: its definitely your LOD man, sounds like its a regular (outdated) ipod LOD and does not present the correct resistance (not a short although shorting to ground will work with a warning) between the serial ground pin and common ground pin. you will need to get an iphone type LOD to use your iphone with ANY amp, so switching amps will not do you any good.


----------



## saitoh

Greetings, I've gone through the opamp list on the first page, and I'm not sure where to start. I've got the stock two that came with the unit, but havn't tried yet.

 I'm very happy with the lack of hiss or noise when pairing the D10 with my UM3X (with um56 tips), and I'm rather happy with the sound and it's output (actually, the reduced output at the low end of amping is a plus). I yern for slightly *less* bass though. Maybe only 1-2db less from around 300hz down to 50. It's just a touch I know that much, everything else I'm generally happy with. Unfortunately, I don't have access to any decent EQ for most of my listening experience, so I thought I'd try a different opamp. Any suggestions (either of the two delivered or of a non-stock one). Thanks!

 for a reference, three source materials that I'm using as a gauge are:

Internet Archive: Free Download: Ayurveda Live at Joe Squared on 2009-09-27
Internet Archive: Free Download: Grace Potter and the Nocturnals Live at Floydfest 8 on 2009-07-24
Internet Archive: Free Download: Emmitt Nershi Band Live at Floydfest 8 on 2009-07-23


----------



## madwolf

I am terribly busy this 2 week and hence sorry for the lack of update.

 I have ordered 8 pieces of BUF634, but when it arrived 
 I only got 1 BUF634 and 7 pieces of DAC5681. It is a really frustrating mix up for me by my supplier. The worst part is that the BUF634 was already in few weeks back but I did not discover the error as I did not open up the packaging. I only found out when I open the package. 

 Nevertheless I proceeded it making my lone BUF634 for the D10. 
 As shown on the photo one BUF634 is fitted on a socket with some rework wire. I did not get the Browndog adapter as suggested by theory_87 cause it would require 4 BUF634 for a D10. I decided to use a simpler 2 Chip solution, unfortunately, I only have 1 at the moment and could only confirm that my mod is working. 







 Sound wise it is preferred over the highly popular 8201 and very similar to LME49600
 But I could only test with one side with BUF634. It is very mellow. 

 I have decided to configure my lone BUF634 in High bandwidth (Hi-C) mode. 

 I am glad that QUSP liked the OPA1612, It is a nice confirmation of what I heard. Hope to hear your comments of OPA211 or OPA2211 soon. I like this as well. 

 I finally manage to make my ClassA adapter for TLE2142. Compared with the standard TLE2142. I must say that if you try TLE2142 you must make it class A. The standard TLE2142 is filled with sibilance. 

 I hope that I could get my 7 replacement BUF634 within next weekend from my supplier so that I could complete my testing. theory_87 if you want we could meet up for you to hear some of the OPAMP I have.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am terribly busy this 2 week and hence sorry for the lack of update.

 I have ordered 8 pieces of BUF634, but when it arrived 
 I only got 1 BUF634 and 7 pieces of DAC5681. It is a really frustrating mix up for me by my supplier. The worst part is that the BUF634 was already in few weeks back but I did not discover the error as I did not open up the packaging. I only found out when I open the package. 

 Nevertheless I proceeded it making my lone BUF634 for the D10. 
 As shown on the photo one BUF634 is fitted on a socket with some rework wire. I did not get the Browndog adapter as suggested by theory_87 cause it would require 4 BUF634 for a D10. I decided to use a simpler 2 Chip solution, unfortunately, I only have 1 at the moment and could only confirm that my mod is working. 







 Sound wise it is preferred over the highly popular 8201 and very similar to LME49600
 But I could only test with one side with BUF634. It is very mellow. 

 I have decided to configure my lone BUF634 in High bandwidth (Hi-C) mode. 

 I am glad that QUSP liked the OPA1612, It is a nice confirmation of what I heard. Hope to hear your comments of OPA211 or OPA2211 soon. I like this as well. 

 I finally manage to make my ClassA adapter for TLE2142. Compared with the standard TLE2142. I must say that if you try TLE2142 you must make it class A. The standard TLE2142 is filled with sibilance. 

 I hope that I could get my 7 replacement BUF634 within next weekend from my supplier so that I could complete my testing. theory_87 if you want we could meet up for you to hear some of the OPAMP I have._

 

sounds good. But i'm tied up with my project for this week. there is a headphone meet today in 1.5h time... are you going?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am terribly busy this 2 week and hence sorry for the lack of update.

 I have ordered 8 pieces of BUF634, but when it arrived 
 I only got 1 BUF634 and 7 pieces of DAC5681. It is a really frustrating mix up for me by my supplier. The worst part is that the BUF634 was already in few weeks back but I did not discover the error as I did not open up the packaging. I only found out when I open the package. 

 Nevertheless I proceeded it making my lone BUF634 for the D10. 
 As shown on the photo one BUF634 is fitted on a socket with some rework wire. I did not get the Browndog adapter as suggested by theory_87 cause it would require 4 BUF634 for a D10. I decided to use a simpler 2 Chip solution, unfortunately, I only have 1 at the moment and could only confirm that my mod is working. 

 [IG]http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/madwolfchin/BUF634.jpg[/IMG]_

 

nice work there, I can see how they mixed them up like that; being that they look so similar and all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 looking forward to your impressions when they arrive, that may just end up being the last mod I make to the D10

  Quote:


 I am glad that QUSP liked the OPA1612, It is a nice confirmation of what I heard. Hope to hear your comments of OPA211 or OPA2211 soon. I like this as well. 
 

yeah i'm looking forward to hearing the 211 as well, will see on monday I imagine. what is your thoughts on the 1611 midrange?? i'm still uncertain if its just a tiny bit recessed. I only have a couple of hours on them, and have not done any comparisons as yet, havent even switched back to the topkit. regardless, its a great sound with very good body, delicacy and the largest soundstage of any opamp I have tried in D10

  Quote:


 I finally manage to make my ClassA adapter for TLE2142. Compared with the standard TLE2142. I must say that if you try TLE2142 you must make it class A. The standard TLE2142 is filled with sibilance. 
 

yes I agree there for sure, have you modded the 211 to class A yet?? I plan to do this when they arrive. well after my SMT resistors get here, although it would probably sound better with nude S102s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 which I may just do for kicks


----------



## madwolf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nice work there, I can see how they mixed them up like that; being that they look so similar and all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 looking forward to your impressions when they arrive, that may just end up being the last mod I make to the D10
_

 

One is a 8pin SOIC and the other is a 64VQFN, How did they look similar ? 

 Maybe they did that to torture me. Cause If they me all 8 wrongly I would not have tested it. If they send me 2 I would manage to test it fully. I could still test the Hi-C mode, Normal mode and some in-between modes, it is just a solder rework away. 
 The only configure I would not be able to test is the double BUF634 on each side with the Browndogs, But I did not get that anyway. 

 But since they sent me one I could test it only halfway. and I am left wondering what to do or how to test. 












 theory_87: I did not know about the headphone meet where did you see that ?


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One is a 8pin SOIC and the other is a 64VQFN, How did they look similar ? 

 Maybe they did that to torture me. Cause If they me all 8 wrongly I would not have tested it. If they send me 2 I would manage to test it fully. I could still test the Hi-C mode, Normal mode and some in-between modes, it is just a solder rework away. 
 The only configure I would not be able to test is the double BUF634 on each side with the Browndogs, But I did not get that anyway. 

 But since they sent me one I could test it only halfway. and I am left wondering what to do or how to test. 












 theory_87: I did not know about the headphone meet where did you see that ?_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/si...2009-a-448677/
 and
Singapore Can Slam 2009! - SGHeadphones


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*One is a 8pin SOIC and the other is a 64VQFN, How did they look similar ? *_

 

hehe, sorry I guess you missed the facetiousness/sarcasm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i thought I made it obvious enough for all peoples and the use of the tongue smile, but I guess not. of course they look nothing alike. I have no idea how such a mistake could be made, very odd indeed

  Quote:


 Maybe they did that to torture me. Cause If they me all 8 wrongly I would not have tested it. If they send me 2 I would manage to test it fully. I could still test the Hi-C mode, Normal mode and some in-between modes, it is just a solder rework away. 
 The only configure I would not be able to test is the double BUF634 on each side with the Browndogs, But I did not get that anyway. 

 But since they sent me one I could test it only halfway. and I am left wondering what to do or how to test. 











 

I sympathize, that must have been very frustrating and easy to think they did it to torture you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but i'm sure they didnt


----------



## stringgz301

Based on the great reviews in this thread I ordered a D10, along with a topkit from Hiflight. The last 24 hours has been an ear-opening sound experience.

 Up until now I've done most of my listening through my iPhone 3GS and Grado SR80is's and been really happy. Overall I found the sound pretty inside my head but with well defined and detailed instruments. However at times I found the sound brittle, especially female voices (even with lossless audio).

 When the D10 first arrived I plugged in my iPhone and Grados and immediately noticed that the sound was warmer, and the instruments a little bit more spread out. I then connected the D10 to my Macbook Pro via USB, setup the midi out, and suddenly discovered a whole different sound! Rich, clear, nice soundstage, clean base. Wow! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I let it burn in last night and installed the 2141CA/EL8201 topkit. Turned it on and ... another wow moment! Bigger soundstage, richer tone in all instruments, powerful bass. Awesome. 

 I'm letting it burn in more as we speak. On my last listen I found the bass big but a little undefined. Hoping it will tighten up. Other than that it's already pretty great.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also ordered a Toslink to mini cable (Toslink to Toslink was included with the D10 and rather than get an adapter decided to get a single piece cable). Can't wait to hear that!

 Any idea how much burn-in before things start to settle down?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

We compared the D10 with the TLE2141 class-a/EL8201 to the P-51 side by side out of an iPod and the D10 comes pretty close - the P-51 has a slight lead in airy-ness and open-ness with a slight difference in the mids as well, but overall it's very good.


----------



## theory_87

I have opa1611, opa211 and buf634 on the way from TI. Should be fun comparing those opamp. Need to order those brown dog adaptor... Planning to use opa1611ca *2, buf 634 Hi-C *4. I'm sure the battery drain will be huge too. But as long as it doesn't finsh before my h140 does, I'm happy


----------



## qusp

I dont know if class A has any benefit on the 1611, its already a very smooth, but detailed opamp. all the same i'm gonna give it a whirl as well. the 1611 i'm running currently are plain as they are, I only had the browndogs which place one on top of the other rather than side-by-side, so not so suitable for the class A mod, but I have some of the side by side versions on their way and will make class A 211 and 1611. BTW, the 1612 does indeed make a very good buffer


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont know if class A has any benefit on the 1611, its already a very smooth, but detailed opamp. all the same i'm gonna give it a whirl as well. the 1611 i'm running currently are plain as they are, I only had the browndogs which place one on top of the other rather than side-by-side, so not so suitable for the class A mod, but I have some of the side by side versions on their way and will make class A 211 and 1611. BTW, the 1612 does indeed make a very good buffer_

 

No worry... I have 4 of each on the way to play with


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have opa1611, opa211 and buf634 on the way from TI. Should be fun comparing those opamp. Need to order those brown dog adaptor... Planning to use opa1611ca *2, buf 634 Hi-C *4. I'm sure the battery drain will be huge too. But as long as it doesn't finsh before my h140 does, I'm happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

With 4 Hi-C BUF634s, I would suspect that your H140 will outlast the D10! CA does not take much more power, but full bias to Hi-C with 100 ohm resistors, the current draw is about 15ma/device. With 220 ohm resistors, the draw decreases to about 8ma each. The bandwidth also decreases with the larger value resistor.


----------



## jamato8

How can the buf634 even work though at the low voltage of the D10? It might work for a short while but the voltage will dip right away with the current draw.


----------



## bakhtiar

Then, do the experiments. See how long the D10 can sustain with buf634. That is the beauty of the D10. We have many 'hackers' around here, I am sure, one of them will found the 'golden' opamps combo, and leveled-up our beloved D10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank you.


----------



## theory_87

No pain no game... No harm trying though... I'm sure madwolf will be ahead of me..


----------



## qusp

yeah madwolf does certainly seem to be leading the pack, I will be suitably impressed if yo can get the BUF634 running for more than a few hours


----------



## madwolf

I did not know there is a competition going on. Much less in the lead. To be honest when I bought the D10, I have no intention of modding or even rolling op-amp. I wounder how many of you would believe me. I would have chosen a much cheaper amp maybe D2 Boa if I were to start all over. 

 I have my D10, with 2*OPA211 in the LR and 2* LME49600 in High Bandwidth mode running for more than 12 hours yesterday. And now on the same set of battery I am running 2*ADA4899 and 2*OPA634 in High bandwidth mode (Yes my replacement OPA634 are in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). For the 12 hours running 2*OPA211 and 2*LME49600 the volume is at 12 o'clock powering my HD595. I am surprise it last this long. It is still strong while I am typing this. My aim was to test the battery life but since it is more than 12 hours I guess there are nothing to complain about and 4 BUF634 is a possibility. 

 Sound wise BUF634 beats the 8201, no contest here. There is a certain confidence that the BUF634 bring. With the 8201 there seem to be something missing around the mid. With BUF634 it is all there balance smooth and effortless. 

 The LME49600 and BUF634 are as expected very similar, but there is a difference in how they sound. But within the short test I cannot pin down the differences. I wounder how much time I would need as it is very close. 

 Hopefully I would get some time this week to test out the difference between the Normal mode and Hi-C modes of the BUF634. and maybe get the double socket browndog to test out double buf634 in the D10. 

 And 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have yet to start my capacitors rolling !!!!!


----------



## bakhtiar

I am not sure whether there is post about this article here yet. I saw the brief reviews of iBasso D10 in What Hi*Fi? October 2009, page 11. 

iBasso D10 Headphone amp review - from the experts at whathifi.com
 1) 279 GBP. Quite pricey in UK, compared in US or other countries.
 2) With Grado SR60i,  Quote:


 #Against
 Slight loss of attack and softness to bass 
 

But, with my IEMs, the bass is solid. Might be they can try the opamp-rolling, the get better sound.

 Thank you.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did not know there is a competition going on. Much less in the lead. To be honest when I bought the D10, I have no intention of modding or even rolling op-amp. I wounder how many of you would believe me. I would have chosen a much cheaper amp maybe D2 Boa if I were to start all over._

 

it was a figure of speach, but yes there has been lets say a holy grail of runing OPA637/BUF634 or similar, so I was only referring to the fact that you seem to be the one pushing forward at the moment. its not a competition so to speak. so with your statement above, I take it you dont use optical?? I dont understand, the D2 to these ears via USB is not as pleasant as the D10.

  Quote:


 I have my D10, with 2*OPA211 in the LR and 2* LME49600 in High Bandwidth mode running for more than 12 hours yesterday. And now on the same set of battery I am running 2*ADA4899 and 2*OPA634 in High bandwidth mode (Yes my replacement OPA634 are in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). For the 12 hours running 2*OPA211 and 2*LME49600 the volume is at 12 o'clock powering my HD595. I am surprise it last this long. It is still strong while I am typing this. My aim was to test the battery life but since it is more than 12 hours I guess there are nothing to complain about and 4 BUF634 is a possibility. 
 

ok interesting indeed. I will have to get some BUF634 afterall, I always assumed they wouldnt be stable in the D10 due to lower current and the fact the they tend to be picky even under ideal circumstances.

  Quote:


 Sound wise BUF634 beats the 8201, no contest here. There is a certain confidence that the BUF634 bring. With the 8201 there seem to be something missing around the mid. With BUF634 it is all there balance smooth and effortless. 
 

agreed, with 8201 as buffer with 1611, there was something in the mids that I couldnt quite put my finger on either, as you will see in my posts on the subject a couple of pages ago. its interesting that you had the same experience. OK BUF634 it is. 

  Quote:


 The LME49600 and BUF634 are as expected very similar, but there is a difference in how they sound. But within the short test I cannot pin down the differences. I wounder how much time I would need as it is very close. 
 

 man I hope this is the last opamp roll, I have now spent pretty close to the cost of the dac itself again in opamps. although I havent even attempted to sell any off, I might do that, since I have a tin chick full of them that i'm not using including both topkits.

  Quote:


 Hopefully I would get some time this week to test out the difference between the Normal mode and Hi-C modes of the BUF634. and maybe get the double socket browndog to test out double buf634 in the D10. 
 

LOL, I think i'll leave it at 2, I like my battery life how it is

  Quote:


 And 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have yet to start my capacitors rolling !!!!! 
 









 good luck with that, blackgate or silmic?? the muse sounded ok (latest update) for the brief time I ; listened to them.


----------



## daanrun

I received my D10 a couple of days ago. It's obviously not burned in yet, but with the stock opamps they definitely sound less harmonic then the P51. I ordered the latest topkit from HiFlight and hope things will improve. I do like the DAC straight out-of-the-box in combination with P51. I'm using the great looking iBasso CB01 as an interconnect.


----------



## hvu

I was wondering what are the specs for the tle2141.
 When I look on the TI website their seems to be 4 different versions of the tle2141.
 Can someone point me in the right direction?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering what are the specs for the tle2141.
 When I look on the TI website their seems to be 4 different versions of the tle2141.
 Can someone point me in the right direction?_

 

The differences are in case style and packaging. All of the different versions perform similarly for audio use. I use the DIP case style, as it is easier for me to modify for Class A operation.


----------



## OneSec

Any link with picture on how to change the D10 opamp?

 EDIT: Nvm I found them from google search. Thanks.


----------



## wuwhere

I finally swapped the Nichicon caps with Blackgates this evening. It took us 3 hours. A tech at work removed the old caps and I soldered the BG caps. It was a PIA to put it back in the case. Now the burning starts.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally swapped the Nichicon caps with Blackgates this evening. It took us 3 hours. A tech at work removed the old caps and I soldered the BG caps. It was a PIA to put it back in the case. Now the burning starts._

 

3 hours! It should have taken 10 or 15 minutes! Just kidding. 

 Ain't it fun though. :^)


----------



## wuwhere

It only took 5 minutes to remove the old caps and solder the BGs. BUT, it took me 175 minutes to slide the board back in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_3 hours! It should have taken 10 or 15 minutes! Just kidding. 

 Ain't it fun though. :^)_


----------



## freeride1685

excited to hear about changes in sound from stock to black gates!


----------



## mikenyc

I have the latest top kit and about 175 hours on the black gates. Really impressed at the sound. I have listened a lot during the black gate burn in. Changes have been subtle. I noticed the speed improvement right away though. I find the synergy with the HF2s to be fantastic.

 PS. I had the same experience with the BG mod. I was a EE undergrad and have done a lot of soldering in my day. This board is really small though and as you say, the fit is tough. It is also important to slide the caps around a little to provide the fit. Probably obvious, but requires some planning on the lengths of the leads. I intend to post more details about my experience but have been too busy with work. Hopefully will get it typed up over the weekend. Filing down the inside of the case was brutal, but very necessary. In addition to filing down the side ridges, I found that the channels for the screws were the ones which really dug into the big BGs. I found a way to file these without rendering the screw channels useless.


----------



## jamato8

Come on guys, it isn't all that hard. Your going to discourage the adventurous. :^)

 Black Gates can take up to 1000 hours to totally settle (form) due to their unique makeup, which is unlike any other cap made. Nothing else like them on the market and still nothing on the horizon. Just too much of a niche market.


----------



## wuwhere

I have 25 hours so far with the BGs and I already could hear subtle improvements.

 The good thing is at work we have a microscope to check for shorts. Also, to remove the old caps, we had to set the solder iron at a higher temp. The solder is lead-free (RoHS). We had to be real careful not to burn the trace. I also put some tape to prevent shorts on the trace and the cap leads. I didn't have to file the inside.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, the new solder is horrible to work with.. Here is what I do. Use your good solder (I use some that still has lead in it) and melt some of that into the solder to be removed. You will conduct the heat better and now the solder will also remove much easier.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Come on guys, it isn't all that hard. Your going to discourage the adventurous. :^)

 Black Gates can take up to 1000 hours to totally settle (form) due to their unique makeup, which is unlike any other cap made. Nothing else like them on the market and still nothing on the horizon. Just too much of a niche market._

 

LOL...we are just preparing those who are planning to do this what to expect.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the new solder is horrible to work with.. Here is what I do. Use your good solder (I use some that still has lead in it) and melt some of that into the solder to be removed. You will conduct the heat better and now the solder will also remove much easier._

 

This is exactly what we did to remove the old solder, we also used a solder sucker to clean out the old solder.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is exactly what we did to remove the old solder, we also used a solder sucker to clean out the old solder._

 

Yes I use a solder sucker and also wick. Wick with flux works very well and sometimes better than the solder sucker.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I use a solder sucker and also wick. Wick with flux works very well and sometimes better than the solder sucker._

 

Yup, that too. I had the tech at work do the removal and clean-up before I soldered the BGs myself, the easiest part of the work. Even he said that it isn't a walk in the park and he does this for a living.


----------



## jamato8

Yes it is a pain but I have gotten used to it and expect what I find so it doesn't really go bad. You are right though, you have to be very careful of those traces. I hate having to then use wire to bridge the gap when the trace is lost. iBasso traces seem to stay down pretty good though.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I have a quick question and would appreciate any consideration. I was reading about the Benchmark DAC1 USB on Benchmark's website and read the following blurb... "Digital interconnect cables, electro-magnetic interference, and many other variables introduce jitter into the digital audio. Jitter presents a major problem to most D-to-A converters. Jitter is a type of clock error that, if not properly addressed, can cause the D-to-A to misfire. The result of these misfires is a non-musical, digital distortion.

 Many modern (and expensive) converters suffer from severe jitter-induced distortion. Jitter is NOT a problem for the DAC1 and DAC1 USB, which achieve jitter immunity by utilizing the proprietary UltraLock™ clock-recovery system."

 I also read some rave reviews on how much the Monarchy DIP improves sound quality on certain gear setups like the Wadia 170i. I listen to music very frequently at my computer using my PC > USB > D10 > IE8. My question is this, would adding a jitter resolution device like like the Monarchy DIP likely improve my sound my quality? If so, how significantly? I would love to hear impressions if anyone has any experience testing one out with their D10 through USB. 

 Thanks!


----------



## jamato8

Well jitter has been a war since it began to be discussed at a higher rate back in the 1990's. What is the best method to contain and manage it has been addressed with some manufactures claiming incredible results. I have a Monica II asynchronous dac that addresses this in a small way. The measure correctly there are a number of parameters that need to be met and even then there is a debate. 

 I would read more reviews, trying to hone in on the credible ones and then take it for a spin. Your ears ultimately will be the best judge and if you can't hear a difference or feel one then I would say it doesn't matter with that particular dac but if you can, well, then there you go.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well jitter has been a war since it began to be discussed at a higher rate back in the 1990's. What is the best method to contain and manage it has been addressed with some manufactures claiming incredible results. I have a Monica II asynchronous dac that addresses this in a small way. The measure correctly there are a number of parameters that need to be met and even then there is a debate. 

 I would read more reviews, trying to hone in on the credible ones and then take it for a spin. Your ears ultimately will be the best judge and if you can't hear a difference or feel one then I would say it doesn't matter with that particular dac but if you can, well, then there you go._

 

Thanks for the quick reply John. I wish it was as easy for me to find a place that auditions headphone audiophile equipment in Phoenix as it seems to be for a lot of posters on here. I have yet to find a store like this. It's kind of depressing. I haven't seen one person on Head-Fi from here yet and haven't seen one single person walking around with audiophile headphones or IEMs for that matter. The white ipod buds and best buys abound...


----------



## jamato8

I can't say I see any real audiophile phones either. It really is a very niche market within a very large population of humans. Many people are brainwashed into thinking the ipod and buds are "it" or they just don't know but a number of people learn here, to hear the difference. I haven't walked into even a fairly high end audio store that has anything in what I would consider high end or medium end phone setups. Phoenix is a big city, I lived in Tucson for 12 years, but I never saw anything in the way of headphone or digital signal recovery equipment. 

 Mail order is the way I went, after reading and reading or I built my own equipment.


----------



## kb1gra

Any word on a new D11? I'm tossing around the idea of a P3+ or D10, wondering what the difference in the amp section is, if any.


----------



## jamato8

There won't be any D11 for some time from the input I have had to my questions. The D10 will remain current for the foreseeable future.


----------



## kb1gra

Anyone know if the opamps being suggested here will fit in the new D4 which is apparently Opamp rollable?

 Might pull the trigger on a new D4 if it can take the topkit or similar.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kb1gra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know if the opamps being suggested here will fit in the new D4 which is apparently Opamp rollable?

 Might pull the trigger on a new D4 if it can take the topkit or similar._

 

Yes, there is a Topkit for the D4. It will, however have a different buffer than the D10, one that will allow for operation at both 5 and 9 volts. 

 The L-R module will remain the same as in the D10, the TLE2141 modified for Class A operation.


----------



## kb1gra

Hmm well with that in mind, I might pull the trigger on a D4. Price is certainly right even with topkit.

 Any ideas on where I could acquire said topkit?


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kb1gra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm well with that in mind, I might pull the trigger on a D4. Price is certainly right even with topkit.

 Any ideas on where I could acquire said topkit?_

 

One way is to send a PM to HiFlight requesting it. He'll reply, and let you know what to do to obtain it.


----------



## jamato8

I use the dac section quite often to drive the Woo 6 and Lisa III and with the new Grado HF2 phones the sound is very enjoyable and analog like. 

 On the Black Gates I installed in my D10, I figure they are totally formed now. The sound is clear and concise with good speed and space.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the dac section quite often to drive the Woo 6 and Lisa III and with the new Grado HF2 phones the sound is very enjoyable and analog like. 

 On the Black Gates I installed in my D10, I figure they are totally formed now. The sound is clear and concise with good speed and space._

 

With just over 100hrs on my BGs, TLE2141-CA/EL8201 buffers, on my Ety ER4P, the improvements are more apparent on good recordings, not night and day, but easily discernable. I noticed too that bass is tauter, better controlled and the highs are airier.


----------



## freeride1685

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With just over 100hrs on my BGs, TLE2141-CA/EL8201 buffers, on my Ety ER4P, the improvements are more apparent on good recordings, not night and day, but easily discernable. I noticed too that bass is tauter, better controlled and the highs are airier._

 

that is good to know....now the question is...who is willing to help out novices with this kind of mod?


----------



## daanrun

Received the latest topkit from HiFlight today (great service BTW). The sound is very good indeed. I did a short A/B listening with my P51 Mustang, the D10 is still not as warm as the P51, but the sound does seem to come very close to the P51.

 A tutorial on installing Blackgates would be great, although I'm a little hesitant to solder into my D10


----------



## freeride1685

i want to consolidate any mod-related information in one place. can anybody with experience regarding the installation of BG caps in the D10 be willing to share their experience over on the "iBasso D10 Modifications" thread?

 here is the link:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/i...ations-448183/

 thanks in advance!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daanrun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received the latest topkit from HiFlight today (great service BTW). The sound is very good indeed. I did a short A/B listening with my P51 Mustang, the D10 is still not as warm as the P51, but the sound does seem to come very close to the P51.

 A tutorial on installing Blackgates would be great, although I'm a little hesitant to solder into my D10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Agreed, it comes closer but doesn't pass up the P-51 yet. I think the P-51 highs might be a little airier and open as well. Regardless, my D10 gets a lot of use since the P-51 doesn't have a DAC or have convenient charging by USB.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fair enough, the reason why I pull on the volume knob is because when I first did it, the volume knob popped off fairly easily...it wasn't glued in placed, so I got used to doing that. When my D10 got back from being repaired, it was glued on._

 

I twisted my volume knob today and all of a sudden I felt a little bit of slack, then later I realized that I could pull the knob off. I see a small screw hole in the knob, but is it really just glued down and that's it? Freaked me out there for a second.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adrift* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I twisted my volume knob today and all of a sudden I felt a little bit of slack, then later I realized that I could pull the knob off. I see a small screw hole in the knob, but is it really just glued down and that's it? Freaked me out there for a second._

 

Unless they changed it recently, my vol knob has no screw hole. And it can be pulled off, there's just some adhesive in it.

 OT: I noticed that the D4 vol knob has a screw.


----------



## adrift

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unless they changed it recently, my vol knob has no screw hole. And it can be pulled off, there's just some adhesive in it._

 

ok thanks.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daanrun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received the latest topkit from HiFlight today (great service BTW). The sound is very good indeed. I did a short A/B listening with my P51 Mustang, the D10 is still not as warm as the P51, but the sound does seem to come very close to the P51.

 A tutorial on installing Blackgates would be great, although I'm a little hesitant to solder into my D10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I find the D10's amp not warm sounding at all or leaner, even with any of the topkits, compared to my Pico that is warm and liquid but it does not get as much ear time as my D10. My source is an iRiver iHP-120.


----------



## theory_87

Just tried out a new opamp combination. opa1611/opa211 *2, and buf634 Hi-C *4. Excellent sound imo. Good imagining, soundstaging, headroom and extension. Did I mention excellent details and non fatigue after long period of listening? :thumbup: AD744obca topkit and tle2141 topkit sound pale in comparison. BTW, my opa1611CA sound distorted and low in volume. Anyone have that problem? It may also be due to problem with my browndog adaptor. Will revisit my opa1611ca at a later if when I order more browndog adaptor. I'll refer opa1611 *2 and buf634 Hi-C *4 as MAXXED kit from now on.

 Can't really detect much different between opa1611 and opa211 using buf634. The different is more obvious with ad8616 as buffer where opa1611 sound airer and smoother treble compare to opa211.

 buf634 sound flat and lack of texture. But put into Hi-C configuration, the bass goes deep with very nice texture.











 Those resistor is a pita to soldier on










 Have it running for a few hours with my half drain battery and everything seems good. The output volume is much higher than any opamp combo I ever tried

 Waiting for my by-pass capacitors to arrive before call it an end.


----------



## theory_87

Finally my d10 went low battery. After charging, Will be able to keep record of the battery life from full charge with optical input


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally my d10 went low battery. After charging, Will be able to keep record of the battery life from full charge with optical input_

 

Great!


----------



## amham

After about 3 months of break-in I still find my D10 too bright for my liking. I've changed the stock AD711 opamp to the iBasso recommended LMH6643 but no joy. Anyone have any suggestions to change op-amps or other mod? I prefer a smoooth, liquid SQ. I'm using Grado 60's for portable use but prefer my Senn 650's and their famous smooth SQ in general. Even using the Senn's the D10 imparts a "strident" sound to my ears. Any ideas short of giving up? Thanks to all...


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amham* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After about 3 months of break-in I still find my D10 too bright for my liking. I've changed the stock AD711 opamp to the iBasso recommended LMH6643 but no joy. Anyone have any suggestions to change op-amps or other mod? I prefer a smoooth, liquid SQ. I'm using Grado 60's for portable use but prefer my Senn 650's and their famous smooth SQ in general. Even using the Senn's the D10 imparts a "strident" sound to my ears. Any ideas short of giving up? Thanks to all..._

 

You can try the AD744/EL8201 topkit.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can try the AD744/EL8201 topkit._

 

I'm not sure that would not be too bright if he finds the stock one too bright. 

 Maybe the TLE2142 or 2141CA with bypassed buffers would be less bright?


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can try the AD744/EL8201 topkit._

 

T think tle2141/21421 topkit, ad8066 with el8201 will suit him better


----------



## theory_87

All mod done... Time for actual test


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can try the AD744/EL8201 topkit._

 

228CA/8201 ?
 a warmer alternative


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All mod done... Time for actual test _

 

Looks great


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All mod done... Time for actual test 
 [IG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/theory_87/IMG_0377copy.jpg[/IMG]

 [IG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/theory_87/IMG_0378copy.jpg[/IMG]_

 

nice work!! they better be all done, certainly no room for anything else in there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what value R are you using for HiC?? I have some buf634 on the way to try out too, glad you posted re the flatness without HiC mode or I would have been left scratching my head after all the praise they get on here.

 and hey, what was Ron on about?? I thought he said single channel buffers wont work?? or I guess he was referring to one per channel. I thought that was odd when he mentioned that.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nice work!! they better be all done, certainly no room for anything else in there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what value R are you using for HiC?? I have some buf634 on the way to try out too, glad you posted re the flatness without HiC mode or I would have been left scratching my head after all the praise they get on here.

 and hey, what was Ron on about?? I thought he said single channel buffers wont work?? or I guess he was referring to one per channel. I thought that was odd when he mentioned that._

 

I think he mean single channel opamp won't work without those adaptor. There is still alot of room on top of the mini jack socket if there is ever a need to use 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm using 200ohm. Quite a pita to solder it in. Actually it sound fine in normal mode. But the texture and smoothest Hi-C mode bring is really a bonus. It just make normal mode sound flat in comparison. thinking of using 100ohm. But will decide after the battery test. 200ohm should be the best compromise between battery life and sound at a glance 

 Yesterday had it running for 7h with my half drain battery. My iriver h140 went from 100% to 50% during this period. Seems good imo... I have only clock 4h from the recharge till now and it seems going strong. D10 MAXXED really sound like portable amps that cost alot more.


----------



## amham

Thanks to all that replied. iBasso stated:

 "Dear Sir,
 Thank you for your email.
 Did you try AD8656 with bypassed buffer? You may also get the TLE2426 with EL8201 buffer, which is warm and sweat.

 Sincerely
 iBasso Audio"

 ...an annoying question for sure given all these posts but where and how do I order a TopKit?

 After listening to the D10 for these last three months it has a pronounced high end lift. I've been listening to audio/high end for 40+ years (yes, I'm an old guy for sure) and can hear the sonic differences easily. The D10 has a problem and it seems that it has been glossed over by many posts extolling it's virtues. It just can't be me and a few others????


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amham* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... but where and how do I order a TopKit? ..._

 

One way is to send HiFlight a PM, requesting to obtain from him a TopKit for the D10. In his reply, he will let you know how to go about it. If you take a look at his FS/FT Forum feedback, you will see that the transaction will be a good experience. I started using TopKits offered by HiFlight for the D10 within a few weeks of owning a D10, which is one reason why I did not notice much or post much about the sonic qualities of the amp with its stock opamps.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amham* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks to all that replied. iBasso stated:

 "Dear Sir,
 Thank you for your email.
 Did you try AD8656 with bypassed buffer? You may also get the TLE2426 with EL8201 buffer, which is warm and sweat.

 Sincerely
 iBasso Audio"

 ...an annoying question for sure given all these posts but where and how do I order a TopKit?

 After listening to the D10 for these last three months it has a pronounced high end lift. I've been listening to audio/high end for 40+ years (yes, I'm an old guy for sure) and can hear the sonic differences easily. The D10 has a problem and it seems that it has been glossed over by many posts extolling it's virtues. It just can't be me and a few others????_

 

IMO, the AD8616 sounds better than the AD8656 when used with bypassed buffers. YMMV!


----------



## HeadDoc

Hello, I have a question about my D10 and foobar2000/windows setting.

 I currently have WASAPI optical output from foobar to the D10, 24 Bit output in Foobar, and 24/96000 output set in the Windows playback devices menu for S/PDIF. I am upsampling with the Sox plugin to 96000 and play 24/96000 vinyl rips (which seem to pass through without Sox touching them). 

 Am I missing anything here, or is this set up properly to take full advantage of the D10 being fed optical FLAC through foobar?

 I don't hear to much from the upsample, but it doesn't seem to detract from the sound. Should I turn on anti-aliasing or adjust the bandwidth?

 Many thanks in advance!


----------



## theory_87

Just an update, my h140 just went dead after 11h of continuous feeding of optical signal in my d10 maxxed. the d10 maxxed is still going strong and it out live my h140 so i can conclude buf634 Hi-C in d10 is very usable


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just an update, my h140 just went dead after 11h of continuous feeding of optical signal in my d10 maxxed. the d10 maxxed is still going strong and it out live my h140 so i can conclude buf634 Hi-C in d10 is very usable_

 

Very interesting. I would not of thought it so. And that is with 2 634's in Hi-C with a 200 ohm resistor per channel? Very nice.


----------



## dnm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadDoc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, I have a question about my D10 and foobar2000/windows setting.

 I currently have WASAPI optical output from foobar to the D10, 24 Bit output in Foobar, and 24/96000 output set in the Windows playback devices menu for S/PDIF. I am upsampling with the Sox plugin to 96000 and play 24/96000 vinyl rips (which seem to pass through without Sox touching them). 

 Am I missing anything here, or is this set up properly to take full advantage of the D10 being fed optical FLAC through foobar?

 I don't hear to much from the upsample, but it doesn't seem to detract from the sound. Should I turn on anti-aliasing or adjust the bandwidth?

 Many thanks in advance!_

 

 If you have 24/96 rips and want to output 24/96 then it is nothing to upsample for the plugin isn't it?


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very interesting. I would not of thought it so. And that is with 2 634's in Hi-C with a 200 ohm resistor per channel? Very nice._

 

yup... i may try 100ohm when I'm free.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yup... i may try 100ohm when I'm free._

 

100 ohm Hi-C shunt draws about 15ma/634. Using the stacked 2X buffers, there would be a total current draw of about 60ma for the buffers alone. Will be interesting to see the battery life with that configuration vs SQ.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_100 ohm Hi-C shunt draws about 15ma/634. Using the stacked 2X buffers, there would be a total current draw of about 60ma for the buffers alone. Will be interesting to see the battery life with that configuration vs SQ._

 

yes. I believe 200ohm is a good balance between battery life and sq. But as we believe buf634 battery drain is too much for d10 battery to handle, it now proven otherwise. so nothing can be sure till we test them out. the maxxed kit is really wonderful sound. very powerful


----------



## stringgz301

Theory_87 - looks very cool. Which adapters did you use: the regular pins or the extended pins? It looks like the Buf634's are on extended pins and the opa1611 on regular pins. Is this correct?




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just tried out a new opamp combination. opa1611/opa211 *2, and buf634 Hi-C *4. Excellent sound imo. Good imagining, soundstaging, headroom and extension. Did I mention excellent details and non fatigue after long period of listening? :thumbup: AD744obca topkit and tle2141 topkit sound pale in comparison. BTW, my opa1611CA sound distorted and low in volume. Anyone have that problem? It may also be due to problem with my browndog adaptor. Will revisit my opa1611ca at a later if when I order more browndog adaptor. I'll refer opa1611 *2 and buf634 Hi-C *4 as MAXXED kit from now on.

 Can't really detect much different between opa1611 and opa211 using buf634. The different is more obvious with ad8616 as buffer where opa1611 sound airer and smoother treble compare to opa211.

 buf634 sound flat and lack of texture. But put into Hi-C configuration, the bass goes deep with very nice texture.











 Those resistor is a pita to soldier on










 Have it running for a few hours with my half drain battery and everything seems good. The output volume is much higher than any opamp combo I ever tried

 Waiting for my by-pass capacitors to arrive before call it an end._


----------



## theory_87

i'm using all normal pin... extended pin should fit better due to the resistor


----------



## Sid-Fi

Quick question, does D10 re-clock the digital signal prior to to DA conversion or does it rely on the original timings as it receives them via USB? I have been reading a bunch of posts where people are upgrading clocks in their DACs to Superclock4 or Dexa D-clock or getting external clocks like pace car and claiming to have pretty significant improvements over whatever stock clocks their gear used (analogue sound). I'm wondering if D10 has its own clock and if so how it does compared to a higher end custom clock like the ones I mentioned. I'm totally new to this so please forgive my ignorance. Any insight would be appreciated. 

 D10 with the current topkit is the only gear I have so far (using IE8) and I'm only using it from PC > USB for the time being but plan to add Wadia 170i within the next month. I'm considering adding a custom higher end clock to the Wadia internally or adding in an external clock between 170i and D10.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_100 ohm Hi-C shunt draws about 15ma/634. Using the stacked 2X buffers, there would be a total current draw of about 60ma for the buffers alone. Will be interesting to see the battery life with that configuration vs SQ._

 

since this is consider as stack buffer, am i to say that in my current config, am i actually using 400ohm resistor? maybe just soldering 200ohm direct to the leg of the browndog will be better?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_since this is consider as stack buffer, am i to say that in my current config, am i actually using 400ohm resistor? maybe just soldering 200ohm direct to the leg of the browndog will be better?_

 

If you have two 200ohm resistors in parallel then you now have 100 ohms of resistance.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you have two 200ohm resistors in parallel then you now have 100 ohms of resistance._

 

shouldn't that make it 200ohm in parallel?


----------



## HiFlight

The same value of resistor should be used whether the BUF634 are single or stacked. 100 ohms will give the widest bandwidth, but with high current draw. Probably easiest to solder the resistor between the pins on the adapter. FWIW, the bandwidth of the stock BUF634 far exceeds the audio bandwidth.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The same value of resistor should be used whether the BUF634 are single or stacked. 100 ohms will give the widest bandwidth, but with high current draw. Probably easiest to solder the resistor between the #6 & 8 pins on the adapter. FWIW, the bandwidth of the stock BUF634 far exceeds the audio bandwidth._

 

I know that same value resistor should be used. What i'm interested to know is using the adaptor, is it consider stack? if it stack, in my setup, is soldering 200ohm per opamp same as soldering 400ohm across leg 6 and 8 of the adaptor?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know that same value resistor should be used. What i'm interested to know is using the adaptor, is it consider stack? if it stack, in my setup, is soldering 200ohm per opamp same as soldering 400ohm across leg 6 and 8 of the adaptor?_

 

If resistors are in series then the resistance doubles but if in parallel then the resistance is halved, if both resistors are of the same value. If the buffers are truly stacked with pins 6 and 8 are matching on both buffers then you only need one resistor of 200 ohm value for both to be biased at 200 ohms. If you use 2 200 ohm resistors then you have paralleled resistors.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If resistors are in series then the resistance doubles but if in parallel then the resistance is halved, if both resistors are of the same value. If the buffers are truly stacked with pins 6 and 8 are matching on both buffers then you only need one resistor of 200 ohm value for both to be biased at 200 ohms. If you use 2 200 ohm resistors then you have paralleled resistors._

 

Thanks for the explanation. I get the whole picture now. I'm actually using 100ohm in theory. listening at 9 o'clock position at low gain, my D10 maxxed lasted me around 16h. Think I will leave it as it currently as my exam is coming up soon.


----------



## HiFlight

double post


----------



## jamato8

Biased BUF634, there you go. :^)

 Anyway, paralleled and series resistors perform according to the law of ohm.


----------



## HiFlight

Hi-C resistor is between opamp pins 1 & 4 ! ( between V- and BW pins) Only Class A bias is between 6&8. When using that 2>1 adapter, the opamps are NOT stacked, but rather they should be considered in parallel, one per channel of each dual-channel buffer socket. 

 Note that pins 1 & 4 of the BUF634 are not necessarily pins 1 & 4 on the adapter. 

 As BUF634 is, in the opinion of many DIYers, not a great buffer, perhaps an AD8397 in each buffer socket would be an easier and better performing choice...It will provide considerably more output current and less voltage noise than BUF634. Quiescent current is also much less than Hi-C 634. As the AD8397 is a combination LR + buffer, it works very well to use a dummy opamp in the LR socket. 

 As this is a high-current opamp, it works especially well with low-impedance phones.


----------



## theory_87

i solder mine between pin 1 and 4 of each buf634.

 As for ad8397, yes. there is plenty of current. however, theory can differ from actual life. I very much prefer buf634 over ad8397. infact, ad8397 is one of the 1st opamp i roll in. i prefer ad8397 as grounding opamp. however there is no grounding opamp in d10.

 Many top tier portable amp use buf634 such as Xin SuperMacro, Portaphile v2^2, sr71 and minibox e+.


----------



## stringgz301

Aren't those 230 ohm resistors?



			
				theory_87;6102798 said:
			
		

> All mod done... Time for actual test


----------



## theory_87

stringgz301;6112618 said:
			
		

> Aren't those 230 ohm resistors?
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## kostalex

What is the best opamp combo for ER-4S?
 And which is perfect for Yuin G1A?

 Both sing perfectly with XIN Supermicro. May D10 get close to SM with some opamps?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kostalex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the best opamp combo for ER-4S?
 And which is perfect for Yuin G1A?

 Both sing perfectly with XIN Supermicro. May D10 get close to SM with some opamps?_

 

The 744OBCA/8201 and TLE2141CA/8201 for the ER4S. The 744OBCA is a little darker. The TLE2141CA is airier. Put some BlackGate caps and the bass gets better.


----------



## kostalex

Where should I put BGs?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kostalex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where should I put BGs?_

 

From rhw,


----------



## OneSec

** double post - deleted **


----------



## qusp

finally got around to squeezing some more bypass caps on the HP output blackgates. so now its 2 x 470uf BGNXHQ with 47uf bypass (thinking of also adding 0.47uf bypass as well if I can squeeze them in. 2 x 220uf BGNXHQ bypassed with 22uf NXHQ, once my 2 x soic8 to DIP8 adapters get here, i'll load it up with buff^#$ and take some pics for y'all to show hopw it fits. tried initially to add the bypass for the output caps underneath the board, but even with grinding the case down to less than mm thick, there still was not quite enough room, I got it closed with them installed there, but it was so tight that it shorted while it was closed up, when I pulled it out again it was fine, but thats not much good. pity because it was really neat and made for effectively 2 'Blackgate 'A frames' short as short leads, but cant make it work without endangering the integrity of the case. 

 so now that the other blackgates have had a couple hundred hours I must say this thing sounds superb!! with JH13 and 2 x OPA1611 (I/V) with EL8201 buffers the level of bass performance has increased quite noticeably, bass texture and detail that previously even with JH13 was somewhat muddled, has now become tight and articulate., adding the bypass caps added more sparkle and yet another layer of detail and speed, cant wait to get the buff634 in there. wonder if i'll be able to fit vishay TX2575 nude 0.005% matched resistors in there for Hi-C 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 these mods have brought the D10 so close to the Lisa III with IEMs that I dont always use it anymore unless i'm feeling indulgent


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_finally got around to squeezing some more bypass caps on the HP output blackgates. so now its 2 x 470uf BGNXHQ with 47uf bypass (thinking of also adding 0.47uf bypass as well if I can squeeze them in. 2 x 220uf BGNXHQ bypassed with 22uf NXHQ, once my 2 x soic8 to DIP8 adapters get here, i'll load it up with buff^#$ and take some pics for y'all to show hopw it fits. tried initially to add the bypass for the output caps underneath the board, but even with grinding the case down to less than mm thick, there still was not quite enough room, I got it closed with them installed there, but it was so tight that it shorted while it was closed up, when I pulled it out again it was fine, but thats not much good. pity because it was really neat and made for effectively 2 'Blackgate 'A frames' short as short leads, but cant make it work without endangering the integrity of the case. 

 so now that the other blackgates have had a couple hundred hours I must say this thing sounds superb!! with JH13 and 2 x OPA1611 (I/V) with EL8201 buffers the level of bass performance has increased quite noticeably, bass texture and detail that previously even with JH13 was somewhat muddled, has now become tight and articulate., adding the bypass caps added more sparkle and yet another layer of detail and speed, cant wait to get the buff634 in there. wonder if i'll be able to fit vishay TX2575 nude 0.005% matched resistors in there for Hi-C 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 these mods have brought the D10 so close to the Lisa III with IEMs that I dont always use it anymore unless i'm feeling indulgent_

 

0.47uf for? After all those mod with the maxxed kit i'm using, D10 is really up there with the best or even better in some area.


----------



## cravenz

for that matter, does anyone here run an LOD via ipod/iphone to the D10 and have any impressions on whether the different LODs make much of a diff.?


----------



## kostalex

I am confused... Is D10 HP out capacitor-coupled?!


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_0.47uf for? After all those mod with the maxxed kit i'm using, D10 is really up there with the best or even better in some area._

 

To bypass the bypass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 more joking than anything, but I have double bypassed things before with good results. So it would be 470->47->.47uf, just need 4.7 I'm the middle to make it a factor of 10 all the way down; I won't do it, just imagining 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 agreed, it's truly a little dynamo now. Still doesn't have quite the finesse of the Lisa, or the magical Bass texture; but it's certainly not far off and fe advantages like dead quite with no music playing with jh13=win with less efficient cans the Lisa still takes the prize in all areas IMO, but with all my iems it's too close to call and no hiss and pocket friendly in summer is not to be underestimated. In winter it's not a hassle carrying my big rig, but I like to travel a bit lighter in summer.


----------



## jamato8

The 220uf nonpolar and 47uf HiQ are my favorites. I like to use both in Super E configuration even in place of much larger value caps as they are very, very fast, have almost zero ESR and in Super E no real inductance if done correctly. Hey, it's all good.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 220uf nonpolar and 47uf HiQ are my favorites. I like to use both in Super E configuration even in place of much larger value caps as they are very, very fast, have almost zero ESR and in Super E no real inductance if done correctly. Hey, it's all good._

 

you just remind me of the old Xin Ref... Super E is very fast. Super E config can be done to any type of caps right? there is still space in my D10 for extra caps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To bypass the bypass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 more joking than anything, but I have double bypassed things before with good results. So it would be 470->47->.47uf, just need 4.7 I'm the middle to make it a factor of 10 all the way down; I won't do it, just imagining 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 agreed, it's truly a little dynamo now. Still doesn't have quite the finesse of the Lisa, or the magical Bass texture; but it's certainly not far off and fe advantages like dead quite with no music playing with jh13=win with less efficient cans the Lisa still takes the prize in all areas IMO, but with all my iems it's too close to call and no hiss and pocket friendly in summer is not to be underestimated. In winter it's not a hassle carrying my big rig, but I like to travel a bit lighter in summer._

 

once to try with buf634 HiC, there is no turning back. even turning the amp on or off will result is a very soft, polite and fast pop sound.

 About bypassing, sometime over doing might make it sound worst... but like i always say, theory and practical is different. No pain, no gain.


----------



## jamato8

Yes you can get resonant frequencies with the wrong caps. 

 You have to use nonpolar caps connecting the outer foil to the inner foil of one and the opposite making one cap from the two with inner and outer foils connected so the two caps are paralleled. I prefer to use Black Gates for this.


----------



## stringgz301

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes you can get resonant frequencies with the wrong caps. 

 You have to use nonpolar caps connecting the outer foil to the inner foil of one and the opposite making one cap from the two with inner and outer foils connected so the two caps are paralleled. I prefer to use Black Gates for this._

 

Jamato - can you give us some more details? Pictures? Link to a how-to? Would love to try this but need some background.

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 220uf nonpolar and 47uf HiQ are my favorites. I like to use both in Super E configuration even in place of much larger value caps as they are very, very fast, have almost zero ESR and in Super E no real inductance if done correctly. Hey, it's all good._

 

Yeah, well it's still kinda super e, just the leads aren't as short ad I would have liked on the 47uf
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you just remind me of the old Xin Ref... Super E is very fast. Super E config can be done to any type of caps right? there is still space in my D10 for extra caps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 once to try with buf634 HiC, there is no turning back. even turning the amp on or off will result is a very soft, polite and fast pop sound.

 About bypassing, sometime over doing might make it sound worst... but like i always say, theory and practical is different. No pain, no gain._

 

hehe, finding space for small bg bypass should be easy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 their only tiny, I just wish I could have got them on the bottom of the board, I may syill get it done at some point. yeah well that's kinda why I stopped, like I said I HAVE done it before with good results, but it os far from the norm, perhaps the last time I did it, it added some pleasingly euphonic distortion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes you can get resonant frequencies with the wrong caps. 

 You have to use nonpolar caps connecting the outer foil to the inner foil of one and the opposite making one cap from the two with inner and outer foils connected so the two caps are paralleled. I prefer to use Black Gates for this._


----------



## daggerlee

can anyone confirm if this works with iPhone headsets (i.e. headphones with a 4 channel plug)? I have a Boa but it doesn't work too well with 4 channel plugs...

 Thanks!


----------



## stringgz301

I've running Hiflights's TLE2141BCA/8201 topkit since I got my D10 about a month ago. Reading some of the recent posts about OPA1611/BUF634 Hi-C I decided to order some and try my hand at soldering them up. I don't have the resistors yet for the Hi-C mod but have had fun this afternoon going back and forth between TLE2141BCA and OPA1611, both with the 8201's. Results (from my inexperienced ears), listening to flac files on my macbook pro over optical to the D10 and out to me SR80i's:

 OPA1611 has a very wide soundstage and a clear presentation of the music (instruments spread out evenly left to right). Everything is very balanced and the bass is crisp. Very analytic but still musical.

 TEL2141BCA has a narrower soundstage but is much more 3 dimensional. The instruments have both a L/R position on the stage but also a depth. Even more interesting is that individual notes have a distinct shape. Listening to the opening of Smashing Pumpkins song Today each guitar note has a shape and evolves in tone as you're listening to it. It's really a pleasure to hear percussion with topkit. Cymbal strikes and hi-hat take on a character they didn't have before. The first minute of Tool's Eulogy suddenly becomes incredible to listen to with an incredible range of sounds coming from all directions. The only downside to this topkit are a little congestion in the middle of the soundstage and the bass isn't quite as clear. Maybe I need to do the Blackgate mod (assuming I can get detailed instructions)?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Next weekend I'll add the Hi-C mod to my BUF634 and test those out. Very curious to compare to the great topkit.


----------



## amham

.


----------



## amham

I am also running Hiflights's TLE2141BCA/8201 topkit. This is an effort to tame the very bright SQ of the stock D10. I've listened to the D10 for 3 months NOW and tried all of their suggested opamps but no joy. The highend has an aggressive, sibilant tone that convinced me to sell it. Well, after listening to HiFlights suggestions, all is well. The D10 now lives up to it's potential in spades! I especially enjoyed the "tubey" 6241 and was about to live happily ever after with this very smooth and liquid quality. Folks, this is not the typical "Can I really hear this or I think it is better" change. This is a profound effect that transforms the D10. I'm now using the more balanced TLE2141BCA/8201 as a default but will cerainly go back to the 6241 when I'm in the mood.

 Auditioning with the Grado 60's (still my alltime favorites for the buck) and acoustic Jackson Browne, Diana Krall, Ray Brown, Chris Botti, etc.

 TopFlight kits are HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!


----------



## cravenz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amham* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am also running Hiflights's TLE2141BCA/8201 topkit. This is an effort to tame the very bright SQ of the stock D10. I've listened to the D10 for 3 months NOW and tried all of their suggested opamps but no joy. The highend has an aggressive, sibilant tone that convinced me to sell it. Well, after listening to HiFlights suggestions, all is well. The D10 now lives up to it's potential in spades! I especially enjoyed the "tubey" 6241 and was about to live happily ever after with this very smooth and liquid quality. Folks, this is not the typical "Can I really hear this or I think it is better" change. This is a profound effect that transforms the D10. I'm now using the more balanced TLE2141BCA/8201 as a default but will cerainly go back to the 6241 when I'm in the mood.

 Auditioning with the Grado 60's (still my alltime favorites for the buck) and acoustic Jackson Browne, Diana Krall, Ray Brown, Chris Botti, etc.

 TopFlight kits are HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!_

 

extremely noob question here, but how am i supposed to swap the opamps and stuff? i just got my D10 today so I'm a little lost at the moment


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stringgz301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've running Hiflights's TLE2141BCA/8201 topkit since I got my D10 about a month ago. Reading some of the recent posts about OPA1611/BUF634 Hi-C I decided to order some and try my hand at soldering them up. I don't have the resistors yet for the Hi-C mod but have had fun this afternoon going back and forth between TLE2141BCA and OPA1611, both with the 8201's. Results (from my inexperienced ears), listening to flac files on my macbook pro over optical to the D10 and out to me SR80i's:

 OPA1611 has a very wide soundstage and a clear presentation of the music (instruments spread out evenly left to right). Everything is very balanced and the bass is crisp. Very analytic but still musical.

 TEL2141BCA has a narrower soundstage but is much more 3 dimensional. The instruments have both a L/R position on the stage but also a depth. Even more interesting is that individual notes have a distinct shape. Listening to the opening of Smashing Pumpkins song Today each guitar note has a shape and evolves in tone as you're listening to it. It's really a pleasure to hear percussion with topkit. Cymbal strikes and hi-hat take on a character they didn't have before. The first minute of Tool's Eulogy suddenly becomes incredible to listen to with an incredible range of sounds coming from all directions. The only downside to this topkit are a little congestion in the middle of the soundstage and the bass isn't quite as clear. Maybe I need to do the Blackgate mod (assuming I can get detailed instructions)?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Next weekend I'll add the Hi-C mod to my BUF634 and test those out. Very curious to compare to the great topkit._

 

buf634 HiC add much needed texture and 3d compare to 8201. Looking forward to your views on the maxxed kit and the topkit.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 220uf nonpolar and 47uf HiQ are my favorites. I like to use both in Super E configuration even in place of much larger value caps as they are very, very fast, have almost zero ESR and in Super E no real inductance if done correctly. Hey, it's all good._

 

Have you changed your D10 (or iBasso OEM) to BG 220uF and 47uF super E?


----------



## rhw

BG super E informations - look *here*
 Remember to use non polarised caps.
 Mundorf does use the same method in its top of the line caps (supreme, silver/oil ......).
 >Mundorf caps


----------



## runnin17

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amham* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am also running Hiflights's TLE2141BCA/8201 topkit. This is an effort to tame the very bright SQ of the stock D10. I've listened to the D10 for 3 months NOW and tried all of their suggested opamps but no joy. The highend has an aggressive, sibilant tone that convinced me to sell it. Well, after listening to HiFlights suggestions, all is well. The D10 now lives up to it's potential in spades! I especially enjoyed the "tubey" 6241 and was about to live happily ever after with this very smooth and liquid quality. Folks, this is not the typical "Can I really hear this or I think it is better" change. This is a profound effect that transforms the D10. I'm now using the more balanced TLE2141BCA/8201 as a default but will cerainly go back to the 6241 when I'm in the mood.

 Auditioning with the Grado 60's (still my alltime favorites for the buck) and acoustic Jackson Browne, Diana Krall, Ray Brown, Chris Botti, etc.

 TopFlight kits are HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!_

 

Completely agree with you on the 6241. My new D10 sounds awesome. It can't handle my sextett's, but I wasn't expecting it to be able to. It easily drives my HD580's though which pleasantly surprised me. Now I just have to find some IEM's to match it.


----------



## Sceptre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daggerlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can anyone confirm if this works with iPhone headsets (i.e. headphones with a 4 channel plug)? I have a Boa but it doesn't work too well with 4 channel plugs...

 Thanks!_

 

My B&O Earset 3's work fine in the headphone jack of my D10. They have the 4 pole connector for the iPhone so you should be OK.

 Sceptre


----------



## daggerlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sceptre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My B&O Earset 3's work fine in the headphone jack of my D10. They have the 4 pole connector for the iPhone so you should be OK.

 Sceptre_

 

thanks Sceptre!


----------



## stringgz301

Question: given the shortness of supply of Blackgates, what is the best alternative B for replacing the main caps in a D10? Given the space limitations, what is the best replacement for the stock D10 caps?

 Thanks


----------



## theory_87

Alot of caps will fit in... I'm using Panasonic AM series cap with is also EOL... I have some other Nichicon, Panasonic FM series that will fit in just fine. Need to get the right physical size and voltage caps that all.


----------



## rhw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stringgz301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question: given the shortness of supply of Blackgates, what is the best alternative B for replacing the main caps in a D10? Given the space limitations, what is the best replacement for the stock D10 caps?

 Thanks_

 

Seems to be a matter of taste.
 You might have a look at the iBasso OEM project thread
 > here - MUSE, Elna ...


----------



## wuwhere

With just over 600hrs on the NX BGs and TLE2141-CA/EL8201, the bass is just amazing, deep and plentiful if the content has it. And the rest of the audio spectrum has improved as well, more palpable.


----------



## jamato8

Yep, that is Black Gates for you. They can take even longer and the more they are left on the better they stay formed.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, that is Black Gates for you. They can take even longer and the more they are left on the better they stay formed._

 

TBH, I was not expecting this much of a change. IMO, it is more dramatic than opamp rolling.


----------



## jamato8

I could have said but it really needs to be experienced to be believed. Many people say that BG's aren't anything special and that a forming period of over 600 hours and even 1000 is pure nonsense but they most likely didn't give them the time needed, because in my experience they can go through some times of not great sound and even I have pulled them only to "make" myself put them back in and give them hundreds hours because I know they take a long time but lost confidence. 

 Hey, its all good. :^)


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... Hey, its all good. :^)_

 

Can't argue with that, good stuff.


----------



## LevA

I read somewhere that with the new batch they are using different caps. does anyone know what the difference between the old and new are in terms of SQ? 
 I just sent my D10 as I have been having crackling/static sound on the left side and asked them if it's possible to get upgraded components as well if they have any. 
 I was really hoping that they could offer an upgrade to BG's for a charge but unfortunately not possible as they don't have any...

 does anyone know any upgraded parts that is recommended for the D10? 

 thanks


----------



## LevA

hi everyone,

 has anyone had problems like crackling/static sound from their D10 using the 744OBCA/8201 combo?? mine has on the left side.

 I've been having this problem for a while and the crackling/static sound is not always there. it comes and goes. sometimes soon after I start listening to music, and other times after hours later. there has also been times when it was working just fine for couple hours. but when it does, it usually stays even if I turn it off and then back on. 

 I just sent it to ibasso and they mentioned that the opamp combo might be a problem as it is not stable on low voltage, and has problems. they have put in the original opamps and say its working fine. 
 my concern is as I mentioned it can be problematic to recreate the problem and they are assuming that its the 744OBCA/8201 combo.
 I dont want it to be sent back to me only to find the problem still there.

 so anyone using the combo having/had this problem?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi everyone,

 has anyone had problems like crackling/static sound from their D10 using the 744OBCA/8201 combo?? mine has on the left side.

 I've been having this problem for a while and the crackling/static sound is not always there. it comes and goes. sometimes soon after I start listening to music, and other times after hours later. there has also been times when it was working just fine for couple hours. but when it does, it usually stays even if I turn it off and then back on. 

 I just sent it to ibasso and they mentioned that the opamp combo might be a problem as it is not stable on low voltage, and has problems. they have put in the original opamps and say its working fine. 
 my concern is as I mentioned it can be problematic to recreate the problem and they are assuming that its the 744OBCA/8201 combo.
 I dont want it to be sent back to me only to find the problem still there.

 so anyone using the combo having/had this problem?_

 

Op amps can differe slightly to voltage as in the same type (two different 744's). Was it always the same channel? Did you ever reverse the opamps to see if it went to the right channel?


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Op amps can differe slightly to voltage as in the same type (two different 744's). Was it always the same channel? Did you ever reverse the opamps to see if it went to the right channel?_

 

thanks for your help jamato8
 tbh, I cant remember if I did swap them or not. I've been having this problem for a while now and i just tried to live with it. but eventually the other day the crackling got sort of loud and got worried that I might damage the headphones.

 the crackling is always on the left channel. as i mentioned it comes and goes. sometimes if i play with the gain switch a few times I can recreate the problem but not always. 

 but i figured if it is from the opamp, wouldn't the problem be there always? also when I take out the headphone jack and put it back in sometimes it goes away for a while, and other times it starts happening right away...it's the same if I turn the amp on and off.


----------



## jamato8

Taking the headphones in and out and changing gain effects the current and therefore would effect the opamp. What this may be doing inside the opamp is the question since you may have one opamp that can't tolerate the lower voltage too well. Just speculation. It could even be a capacitor but I have no way to know for sure.

 It could even be a cold solder joint, hard to say but they can also act up and conduct at times and with thermal changes, not conductor cause a diode/capacitive effect.


----------



## jamato8

Double post.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Taking the headphones in and out and changing gain effects the current and therefore would effect the opamp. What this may be doing inside the opamp is the question since you may have one opamp that can't tolerate the lower voltage too well. Just speculation. It could even be a capacitor but I have no way to know for sure. 

 It could even be a cold solder point, hard to say._

 

EDIT POST & UPDATE*******

 just to update, all is fine. The problem is fixed as the problem was with the opamps..
 I have to say that I am completely satisfied with ibasso customer service. they kept me updated everyday with their emails and have been really helpful. especially considering that the problem was not with their product. 
 Just makes me fell confident in buying more of their products in the future.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT POST & UPDATE*******

 just to update, all is fine. The problem is fixed as the problem was with the opamps..
 I have to say that I am completely satisfied with ibasso customer service. they kept me updated everyday with their emails and have been really helpful. especially considering that the problem was not with their product. 
 Just makes me fell confident in buying more of their products in the future._

 

ibasso standard is getting better as time past. I will rank it on par with RSA now. I remember their initial amps built quality are quite bad.

 BTW, those who feel ibasso vol is low, the buf634 buffer make it much louder. I was listening at 1 o'clock in the past. with buf634, i only need 10 o'clock now


----------



## hvu

I was wondering if anyone knows the specs for the optical input for the D10?
 I was thinking of replacing it with one with a flip door.


----------



## nc8000

Haven't followed this thread for a while so don't know if it has been mentioned before but the November issue of UK HiFiChoice actually has a full page review of the D10 and it gets a 5 star rating and best buy status although they did not like the stock opamps so swapped them. Nice to see that even a main stream hifi mag now takes something like portable amps/dacs seriously enough to review them. Last time I saw that was 7-8 years ago when Ken Kessler in HiFiNews reviewd the original AirHead with ER4-P and raved about it so much that I bought both.


----------



## jamato8

It is also nice to see that they tried different opamps. It reminds me of reviewers of tube equipment that go ahead and try different tubes.


----------



## qusp

guys, i'm with jam here (and many others), I figure i've now got a couple hundred hours on the BG in D10 now and all I can say is OMG!!. with JH13 the sound is just getting better and better. also, dont know if you guys have played with different minijacks, the one in the D10 is a bit weak IMO and the grounding connection had started to become intermittent again, from what I can tell its a knockoff of a switchcraft model (35RAPC4BHN2), which is a direct drop-in replacement for those willing to do such things. the one I link above is a silver plate model, but it is also available in gold for those that like things to be less conductive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 when I got mine back after sending it off to be fixed for a similar problem with the lineout/in jack, it came back with both replaced, as always great service from ibasso, but its not that long now and I have the same problem. I use a fairly chunky but light cryoparts carbon fibre barrel mini, which is straight and lately i've been wearing jeans with the rig in my pocket, so i'm not totally blameless, but I did the same thing with my pico (which uses these same switchcraft sockets) the entire time I owned it. anyway the D10 is awesome value, so I guess something's gotta give. had I used an RA mini and in big shorts perhaps there would not have been an issue. also I turn my rig around in my pocket now so the D10 is on the outside not the iriver, which also likely had a part to play due to leverage.

 but; and heres the thing, with the new mini, I could be crazy, but the D10 seems to have a lot more bass authority now, which could very well have something to do with better ground contact than the other had, even when new because of a higher level of clamping force. the BG are burning in too, so its probably a combination, but this morning when I put the switchcraft in, maybe an hour ago and went for a walk to the shops in the quiet of 5am, with the hallucinogen live album rockin my skull, seriously I have never heard the D10 sound so amazing!! I guess it could also have something to do with impedance matching since i'm using a silver cable, I dont really care how/where/why/who, but i'm becoming more enamored with my portable rig daily. now to wait for the OEM dac and OEM amp to enter the picture. ibasso are really doing some amazing stuff (no affiliation)


----------



## wuwhere

^^ Its the BGs. I've cooked mine for about 750 hours.


----------



## qusp

normally I would agree and i'm sure it is definitely a big factor, but this was a very immediate change that seemed to happen straight after the mini was swapped in. im thinking that i have been putting up with a bad ground connection for a while and this was there all the time. i'm not saying the mini is responsible for the bass, because the bass has been improving all the time since the BG were rolled in, but simply that it has allowed the bass to shine through. I recommend you do it, if only to have a more rugged mini.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_normally I would agree and i'm sure it is definitely a big factor, but this was a very immediate change that seemed to happen straight after the mini was swapped in. im thinking that i have been putting up with a bad ground connection for a while and this was there all the time. i'm not saying the mini is responsible for the bass, because the bass has been improving all the time since the BG were rolled in, but simply that it has allowed the bass to shine through. I recommend you do it, if only to have a more rugged mini._

 

Could be my next mod. Pics?


----------



## qusp

sure, been without my computer for a couple of weeks since the power supply died, but got it ak yesterday, will take some pics later on, got some work to take care of first


----------



## theory_87

No idea about you guys... But my D10 came with switchcraft jack install... There is switchcraft logo... maybe ibasso changed it in the later batch.. Only thing I like about the new D10 is the flip door optical jack.


----------



## LevA

I'm considering getting BGs installed into my D10.
 from what i've read I need 2x470uf 6.3V and 2x220uf 6.3V is this correct?
 Also does anyone know where i can order from on the net? I checked soniccraft and they have 2x470uf 6.3V. they have in N and NX. which is better? 
 Unfortunately they dont have 2x220uf 6.3V...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is there one place I can find both the BG's I need?

 thanks.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No idea about you guys... But my D10 came with switchcraft jack install... There is switchcraft logo... maybe ibasso changed it in the later batch.. Only thing I like about the new D10 is the flip door optical jack._

 

the one I got, I thought it was switchcraft initially, looks almost identical, but put the 2 next to each other and they are not the same.


----------



## qusp

leva, parts connexion may have them both; thats where I got mine. also try percyaudio.com


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_leva, parts connexion may have them both; thats where I got mine. also try percyaudio.com_

 

thanks qusp!


----------



## LevA

qusp,

 does it matter between NX and N? which one should I get? 
 thanks


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_qusp,

 does it matter between NX and N? which one should I get? 
 thanks_

 

I use the NX version.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeeSC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the NX version._

 

Thanks Lee,
 just ordered them (NX) from parts connect. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now, I have to figure a way to get them soldered. I have done basic soldering but I doubt I can pull this off on my own.


----------



## LeeSC

Remember to start from the back with the 470uF. I find it easier to plan for the spacing that way.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Lee,
 just ordered them (NX) from parts connect. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now, I have to figure a way to get them soldered. I have done basic soldering but I doubt I can pull this off on my own._

 

The NX was the latest technology on the nonpolar. Was. . . 

 Yes, the layout needs to be looked at carefully and don't cut the leads on the 470uf until absolutely sure of placement. It's tight but works and you need to file down the inner extrusion lip on the inside of the case on the side where the caps are or it will scrape them and generally make installation harder.


----------



## wuwhere

One thing I would suggest is to cut the BGs leads and solder some insulated solid core wire with the same diameter. If you don't, the uninsulated cap leads will touch the pcb trace when you try to slide the board back.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One thing I would suggest is to cut the BGs leads and solder some insulated solid core wire with the same diameter. If you don't, the uninsulated cap leads will touch the pcb trace when you try to slide the board back._

 

Heat shrink tube can take care of that.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heat shrink tube can take care of that._

 

That will work too, as long as the leads are insulated.


----------



## toads

with theory_87's permission, i've used one of his photos to outline a few questions concerning cap placement...







 so do i have the main caps ID correctly...?

 what about the 22uf's...?

 where is the other 47uf...?

 and what are those two adjacent the op amps...?


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *toads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_with theory_87's permission, i've used one of his photos to outline a few questions concerning cap placement...






 so do i have the main caps ID correctly...?

 what about the 22uf's...?

 where is the other 47uf...?

 and what are those two adjacent the op amps...?_

 

Just to let you know, I'm not using BG. I'm using Panasonic AM series caps. My power caps is 2200uf and the signal caps is 470uf. 

 BG cap is bigger in size so some of the caps will not fit into the position I place. the upper blue cap will be the bypass for the 2nd 470uf BG that you'll be using.

 Here is a picture with 470uf and 220uf BG installed.


----------



## toads

hmpt...yes of course...obviously not BG caps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well then those that bypassed with the BG 22uf and 47uf's...where did you hide the little fellas...?


----------



## qusp

that pic does not have any bypass caps; not everyone does it, because its difficult to fit. I have only bypass caps on the 470if now, as I removed them to make way for some more stuff in the buffer area when my new adapters come in. when thats sorted and I know how much room I have, I will instal them again. for now i'm running 470uf bypassed with 47uf in the power rail and 220uf in signal (no bypass)

 and the ones you are unsure of in theory87's pic in the top tight are likely a 1uf and the other isnt a cap at all; it is the stock relay that switches between line-in and line-out.

 sorry guys, no pics again, promise i'll get some in the morning. had a scare just before too, went to the shop and bumped the mini in the jack and there was a pop and the audio stopped and the LED was not working. I thought I might have shorted something, then I can back and saw the warning to insulate the leads 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lets just say do as I say; not as I do, I only have a small strip of insulating tape under the caps to protect from contacting the trace, the leads are bare.

 turns out the battery leads had been dislodged and all is well now that it is seated properly.

 so installing the buff634 later this week I hope; I ordered some adapters that are specifically for modding, they have pads for biasing, a hole to pull a ground reference from the board and pads for caps. grerat little adapters, will post pics when they arrive. i'm also going to try out the LME49720HA in the D10 as well just for kicks; I got them for another project, they by rights should not work as they should have +-2.5v (5v swing) minimum, but they may just work anyway.


----------



## HiFlight

Good luck! I was never able to get the LME49720 to work in the D10 without much severe distortion. 
 It is one of the opamps that I posted on page 30 of this thread that does not work in the D10.


----------



## qusp

yeah, i'm not gonna spend much time on it, I got them for something else, (diy portable dac project) but i'll give it a whirl anyway as they sound really awesome in anything i've heard them in before


----------



## LevA

well my BG purchase from parts connexion didn't go through 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 they cant send it through canada post and any other alternative would cost twice or more the cost of parts to where I live..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 and percyaudio is out of the BG's as well...

 any other reliable shops out there that I can find the BGs?


----------



## qusp

maybe sonicraft


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_maybe sonicraft_

 

thanks again qusp,

 unfortunately sonicraft is also a no go. they are out of 220uf BGs....


----------



## OneSec

After having the D10 for almost a month now I decided to A/B(/C) around those 3 pairs of stock op-amps.
 1) AD742 (Very weird - I can’t find any comment on this stock op-amp. They are not listed in the first page comparison neither)
 2) LMH6643
 3) AD8656
 LMH6643 somewhat have a more apparent bass compare to others, providing more instrument resonance and warm sound which kinda "opens up" most of my old digital re-mastered recordings half century ago, so I decide to stick with this one.
 However there is a small problem – where the music plays loud on around frequency 850 and D10 is turn to max volume; I can hear distortion (Opening of "Mohini" from The Essential Yo-Yo Ma Disc 2). 
 However if I reduce the volume on D10 and bump up the volume on speaker, the distortion go away. When I switch to other 2 op-amps on and play on max volume, no distortion.
 I normally turn D10 to maximum volume and adjust the volume on my MX5021 speaker.
 I'll stick with LHM6643 for a couple more days and hope the break-in will make distortions go away.
 Just sharing this information, and see if anyone else has experience the same phenomena.

 Any comment or suggest is welcome.


----------



## HiFlight

The opamps you are evaluating are normally used for buffers, however the AD8656 works well in L/R especially with dummy buffers, as it can output quite a bit of current. I personally favor the AD8616 over the 8656, as I feel it is smoother, especially in the highs. It is also a very low current draw opamp. 

 Ron

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OneSec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After having the D10 for almost a month now I decided to A/B(/C) around those 3 pairs of stock op-amps.
 1) AD742 (Very weird - I can’t find any comment on this stock op-amp. They are not listed in the first page comparison neither)
 2) LMH6643
 3) AD8656
 LMH6643 somewhat have a more apparent bass compare to others, providing more instrument resonance and warm sound which kinda "opens up" most of my old digital re-mastered recordings half century ago, so I decide to stick with this one.
 However there is a small problem – where the music plays loud on around frequency 850 and D10 is turn to max volume; I can hear distortion (Opening of "Mohini" from The Essential Yo-Yo Ma Disc 2). 
 However if I reduce the volume on D10 and bump up the volume on speaker, the distortion go away. When I switch to other 2 op-amps on and play on max volume, no distortion.
 I normally turn D10 to maximum volume and adjust the volume on my MX5021 speaker.
 I'll stick with LHM6643 for a couple more days and hope the break-in will make distortions go away.
 Just sharing this information, and see if anyone else has experience the same phenomena.

 Any comment or suggest is welcome._


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks again qusp,

 unfortunately sonicraft is also a no go. they are out of 220uf BGs....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I bought my red BGs NX 220uf from Sonic Craft just last month. Must have been the last of the few they had in their inventory.


----------



## jamato8

It has been reported that the BG's sound even better naked. Taking off the shrink seems to effect the cap in a positive way.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought my red BGs NX 220uf from Sonic Craft just last month. Must have been the last of the few they had in their inventory._

 

you sir, have just earned my scorn!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 on a serious note, those in Canada and US might want to look at parts connexion to acquire BGs. 
 For those of us in other countries, the shipping costs will be at least twice the cost of parts, if not more..so not sure it will be worth spending over ~$100 for BGs...


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It has been reported that the BG's sound even better naked. Taking off the shrink seems to effect the cap in a positive way._

 

Jam, you are always on the money. The BGs really need some serious hours to develop, 800 - 1000hrs.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you sir, have just earned my scorn!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on a serious note, those in Canada and US might want to look at parts connexion to acquire BGs. atm they do have them but I think there is restriction on air mail for capacitors in Canada (I remember reading something about it a while ago on the forum if I remember correctly) and can only do ground shipping or other alternative methods. 
 For those of us in other countries, the shipping costs will be at least twice the cost of parts, if not more..so not sure it will be worth spending over ~$100 for BGs..._

 

Ouch!, over $100 hurts, they are worth it though, escalates the D10 a notch or two.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch!, over $100 hurts, they are worth it though, escalates the D10 a notch or two._

 

yeah, if only I could install them on my own I might be tempted, but after looking at the board inside, I doubt I can pull it off. so I would have to pay extra for them to be installed, which ends up being quite expensive. 

 now if I could get them from somewhere with air mail, then I am willing to pay for the installment fee.


----------



## dwonk

Waiting for my 744OBCA, TLE2141 and EL8201 order to arrive from Ron. 

 Just wanted to chime in on the start of my rolling odyssey.... 

 After spending a few days with the stock ADA4841-2/AD8532 configuration, I found that a mucho bright for my tastes, especially with studio rock music but it really did well with some of my more distant concert recordings where I was taping in less than optimal locations. I switched it out for the AD8656/bypassed buffers combo and toned the high end down, but I noticed less lower bass impact as well, if that makes any sense. Overall much less fatiguing in this configuration. Also, the soundstage seemed more narrow. Grabbed the Fleedwood Mac Tusk and Fleetwood Mac remasters and been having a blast with them.


----------



## Zai

I'm using the D10 to feed the Ear+HD via optical since a month or so and i'm realizing that i might don't ever need a dedicated DAC for the home rig.


----------



## techenvy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D10 is out! With optical in, Coax in, amp only, dac only or both, a run time of 20 to 30 hours and this time, gain control, it will offer many features on the fly. 

 Sockets, so you can roll opamps and a kit with opamps will come with it. 
*There are a few sensitive chips so always ground yourself before changing opamps to get rid of any static electricity or you will fry the chips. *

 Power Source：Built-in 4.2V 470mAh Li-polymer Batteries or external power supply
 Frequency Response: 17Hz~20 KHz -0.5dB (DAC) 17Hz~100 KHz -0.5dB (AMP)
 Signal to Noise Ratio：97dB (DAC), 104dB (Amp) 
 Crosstalk: 93dB (DAC) 101dB (AMP)
 Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.006%@1kHz/0dB(DAC) 0.005%@1kHz/0dB (AMP) 
 Output power：Up to 100mW+100mW into 32Ω 
 Gain: 3dB/10dB (AMP)
 Battery Life: 20Hours or 30Hours if amp only.
 Battery Charge Time: 6 Hours
 External Power supply: 5V DC
 Recommended Headphone Impedance: 8~300Ω
 Case dimension: 2.2W x 4.1L x 0.8H (inch) 55W x 104L x 21H (mm)
 Weight: 168g or 5.9oz

 Price: $275.00 plus shipping






 The size is just a little bit smaller than my iRiver H140 or 120! This will be great! 

 To further clarify, the D10 is a single unit that can be as a dac an amp or both are used at the same time. The Amp section can be bypassed and you can output to another amp or you can bypass the dac and use just the amp or you can input to the dac and internally the dac connects to the amp and you output as a dac/amp to your headphones.





















 New mini optical from Sysconcept to be used with the right angle adapters. This will keep the optical cord from protruding past the case of the D10 and iRiver H120 or H140.






 Sony D303 with optical out to the D10 and the ESW10 JPN

 Bottom 5 images shot with my Canon 5D II. A great camera that finally gets me back to the feeling of a very fine film camera and at 22mb's an image and over 100mb's in a TIFF, it should. 

 Optical cables from: Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more: MiniPlug to MiniPlug Premium Optical Cable 0.05 to 50 meters email Joseph and describe what you need and he will make up the special length and terminations you need. They are a truly quality service. 

 I should have dusted the D10 and iRiver but frankly I still have the flu and just wanted to get it done.

*1 31 2009*

 Ok, with a little over a week on the D10 now, 7.5 X24, I am hearing some changes. The sound is more open again and better spatial presentation. I hear, or perceive, more air between singers, instruments and just better staging. The transparency has increased and there is more reverb from walls, which gives the impression of a larger venue or feeling of space. Very nice. The dynamics have also improved as noted in speed and impact.

*Post on 3 5 09 by HiFlight on opamps to use.*

 As I do not want to get into subjective "which is best" discussions, I simply ranked them based on treble vs bass balance, or from brightest to darkest.

 My ranking is as follows:

 ADA4841-2
 AD8599
 AD8616
 AD8397
 LMA6643
 AD746
 LTC6241HV (LTC6241 would also work just fine)
 OPA2111
 OPA2604
 THS4032
 OPA2134
 LMH6655
 AD8656
 AD8066 (with AD8532 buffers)
 AD2228
 AD2227

 Widest soundstages were found in AD8066, OPA2111, OPA2604, AD8656 and AD746, respectively.

 Most output power (without buffers)

 AD8397: 320ma
 AD8656: 220ma
 AD8616 150ma
 THS4032 80ma
 LMH6655 80ma

 Opamps that I thought might work but didn't: AD8620, LM6622, LME49720 (LM4562), AD797 (SOIC) OPA627 (OPA 627 initally worked fine, but only for a short period of time. Likely on the very edge of its voltage envelop with a fully charged battery.)


 Note that the AD8397 has built-in buffers, so I would not suggest using additional buffers. This opamp has sometimes been criticized for its highs, but in the D10, it performed really well.

 My recommendations:
 If you have bright phones and/or are a basshead, go with the darker opamps, if you like detail and sparkle, or have dark phones, try the brighter ones.
*Post on 2 8 09 by HiFlight*

 THS4032 with bypassed buffers or with the AD8656 buffers for a little warmer sound. 
 AD8397 bypassed buffers (I am now using this config.) This opamp sounds better in the D10 than many other amps I have tried it in. This opamp has a more distant soundstage, which I prefer over sitting in the middle of the band.
 LTC6241HV with AD8656 buffers
 AD8656 bypassed buffers

 I did not list any opamps that did not sound good in the D10. 

 Lots of good choices now. See previously posted listing, post 439, page 30 of this thread. They are ranked tonally, from light to dark.

*4 7 09 by HiFlight*

 Just to keep up interest, I have a bunch of new opamps and buffers that I have never tried before enroute. For now, my personal D10 choice is: 
 OPA2228 in LR, AD8656 buffers. Like being there!

 And here I thought I was about finished trying out different combinations....Well, the bar just keeps going up. What fun. 

 For those who like the AD8656 for use in LR or buffer sockets, but would prefer a slightly less bright SQ, I found some very good low voltage opamps that perform very well in the D10. 

 As I describe their sound characteristics, it is in comparison to the OPA2228/AD8656 combination. 

 The following combinations differ from the above set mainly in emphasis of the tonal range and soundstage. 

 All of the new opamps are low-noise, low distortion, and quite economical on battery power. 

 The opamps used in LR were the following: 
 LMH6622 (SOIC)
 OPA2350 (DIP)
 TLC2202 (DIP)

 The buffers used for all 3:
 EL8201

 LMH6622/EL8201 sounded most like 2228/8656, but with more brightness/detail. The 6622 is brighter than 2228, but EL8201 is smoother and more liquid than is the AD8656. More the characteristics of the 2228, but in a buffer. Their characteristics matched well. 

 OPA2350/EL8201 also resembled the 2228/8656 combination, but with more detail in the mids. Highs were tamed a bit, lows about the same. Soundstage was wide, but not particularly deep. The soundstage was fairly "upfront". Vocals really sounded superb with this pair of opamps. Those who like detail, but dislike any sense of tonal stridency will very likely enjoy this combo. 

 TLC2202/EL8201 was the most "speaker-like" of the 3. The soundstage was narrower than the reference configuration and the previous 2 combos, much like a crossfeed implementation. It was, however, quite deep. One also got the feeling that the performance was more distant, again, much like listening to speakers. This combo provided a sound signature that does not lose its sense of realism even at reduced volumes I need to spend more time evaluating the highs...some tendency for sibilance from time to time. 

 The OPA2350/EL8201 would lend itself very well to the Sennheiser house sound as as Westone UMs, Atrios, etc. 

 I did try a number of different genres, including a variety of acoustical, vocal, and orchestral. All of the combinations did well with all of the types of music. 

 All music was high bitrate recordings played thru the line-out of my iRiver H120CF. Phones used for trials were Phonaks, Sony F-1, and Yuin G1A. 

 The Yuins were the hardest to drive and took the most volume, but at not time was I maxed out on volume, nor was there any audible distortion at the highest volume levels. 

 I do like the EL8201s better than the LMH6643 buffers personally. I found that they matched well with any LR opamps that I used with them. 

 Again, I want to state that I couldn't really pin down a "best-of-show" as they all sounded good, but with differing nuances of tonal shading and soundstage. It will be, as always, a matter of personal preference. The LR opamps mentioned above also sounded very good with the AD8656 buffers. The differences were mostly in how forward the highs sounded in comparison to the rest of the audio spectrum.


 Addendum: 

 Some worked really well, some not as well. Stellar performers in D10 L-R:
 OPA2350, OPA2228, AD8656, ADA4841-2 and similar-sounding TLC2202, THS4032, LTC6241HV. EL8201 is also worth auditioning in LR as well as buffer use. Very smooth and warm but doesn't mask the highs. 

 Buffers: LMH6655, AD8656, EL8201. Although I had high hopes for the LMH6622, it didn't sound nearly as good to me as the LMH6655 when used as a buffer. The LMH6622 does sound quite lively in LR though. (The 6655 is also serves as the ground opamp in D2 Topkit) 

 TLC2202/EL8201 very battery-friendly! Maybe not the best choice for bright phones. Mucho detail. 
 OPA2350...very good sound, fairly high battery draw...very similar battery requirements to THS4032. Sounds closer to the OPA627 than most any other opamp I can recall having tested. 

 The above suggestions are by no means all-inclusive. They are just the ones that I have spent time with during the past few days and feel that they are worthy of a listen.

 It seems that the D10 circuitry is designed in such a manner that enables many opamps to perform extremely well, assuming minimum supply voltages are met. 



*Review by HeadphoneAddict 2 22 09. Very comprehensive with many comparisons* (middle of page)
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/u...3/index44.html

*Added 2 26 09 Observations and comparisons*

 D10 vs Lisa III with a bit of the Woo 6 mentioned. 

 1st impression of the D10 with the stock opamp and AD8656 buffers compared to the Lisa III is that the D10 is a little more distant and airy sounding. I noticed this also when comparing the Lisa III to the Woo 6, as the 6 was more airy and a little more distant. The Lisa is very, very smooth and more intimate. The Lisa III isn't in your face but closer. It has a good top end with a treble extension that is natural but it doesn't have quite the "live" sound of the Woo 6 or the D10 when live recordings are played. The bass of the Lisa III is a little more pronounced when compared to the D10. Not pronounced in a bad way, just more obvious. It is well controlled on both the D10 and Lisa III with the bass of the Lisa III being a little warmer or fuller. 

 The mids of the Lisa III seem a little richer, maybe a little more forward than the D10. With the D10 having a slightly recessed mid in comparison to the Lisa III, this would add to the impression of a more open or distant presentation. Which one is right? I am not sure but the Woo 6 also presents a little more distant image and the Woo 6 with all of my modification is, IMHO, excellent and the best I have for an amp. The Lisa III is very fine sounding so it is really up to the individual as to what is preferred. Both the D10 and the Lisa III are doing a very fine job. The Lisa III is nice and powerful and drives all my phones with ease. 

 On bass, the Lisa III has more authority. There is more impact. On ToTo live, Africa has real impact with the Lisa III. With the D10 it is good and enjoyable, just not as much overall drive to the deep bass. The upper bass on the Lisa III does not bleed into the lower mids, which is nice, so the amp remains fast sounding. The D10 does not bleed into other frequencies either so again, it remains fast sounding. 

 Overall, there are some areas of the D10 I prefer to the Lisa III. The D10 has more transient speed, which adds more snap to the music. Notes linger as long but the rise in micro dynamics and leading edge just seems faster and with a touch more cleanness. Transient speed on the D10 is exceptional. 

*3 15 09*

 I am coming to the conclusion that the opamps supplied with the D10, those that are stock and inserted, sound the best being very well balanced in all frequencies with no real deficiencies. 

*3 18 09 by HeadphoneAddict on the D10 *

 I want to also chime in that I do love the stock opamps. Like I said before, 95% of my review was done with it stock. I am running a similar setup with the stock buffers but with the LTC6241HV in LR instead of the stock ADA4841-2 due to slightly less RFI from iPhone and possibly slightly more detail or space with the same warm sound. In the D1 the 4841 and 6241 were similar low draw opamps, while the 6241 seemed to offer more detail if moved to the DAC, and in the D2 Viper the 6241 was the "Predator Clone" opamp.

 I also liked the AD8656 with byassed buffers, and my 4th choice is the AD8397 with bypassed buffers. For dark or bassy cans like the Senn IE8 the AD8599 and AD8066 can help fix the headphone's frequency response, but otherwise the majority of cans don't need those.
 __________________

*5 30 09*

 SysConcept has a new cable for the optical from the D10 to a iRiver H120 or H140. It takes quick angle out the back of each so it takes up very, very little room and allows for the use of the remote. There is a 24 hour lead time, which is still very fast, due to the total custom make and time for the epoxy to set up. The price is 59 dollars for this great little custom optical toslink to mini cable. Its a MiniTM.











 SysConcept MiniOp Cable with the iRiver H140, iBasso D10, iBasso P3+._

 




 I had no idea u could connect via optical from a mini dap to the d10, simpley awesome, i am all about optical toslink and i always prefer it now i can even on the go,


----------



## techenvy

seriously, i am selling my rsa predator for a ibasso d10 cobra, for sure now.
 i wonder how it will amp my denon 7000, the predator was lacking in the low end for that synergy, i wont obviously be using the huge denon cans on the go, the d7000 help you hear what most amps are lacking imo. usually the low end, alas i will be using the d10 with my ue triplefi 10vi and ue5eb maybe some ultrasone hfi 580 or pro 550 both 50 mm driver cans, not sure which one has more bass punch and more clarity, but theyll fold up nicely around iriver and ibasso via optcal, good bye LOD


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *techenvy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had no idea u could connect via optical from a mini dap to the d10, simpley awesome, i am all about optical toslink and i always prefer it now i can even on the go,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You didn't just quote the entire first post did you?


----------



## estreeter

*D10 vs D4 vs Rx vs Lisa RS * (ok, that last one is a ring in, given that its a desktop design, but I couldnt resist). Eagerly awaiting the reviews from yourself and Skylab - not sure where you both find the time.


----------



## qusp

techenvy, yes you can do that and in fact its probably the best thing about the D10, but to quote the entire first message to say something so trivial that you could have just thought to yourself; 'hmmm wow I missed that, i'll go grab myself one of those' is confounding!! you really gotta start thinking about posts, thats one of the most annoying things you can do on a forum is waste space with meaningless duplication of information that does nothing to add, you could have even just quoted the part that mentions the optical if you really felt the need to

 you even included the pics OMG!! :S


----------



## immtbiker

As a Moderator, I agree with qusp. It's a terrible waste of bandwidth.
 Just...snippet...the part you are going to make comparisons with, and leave the rest out. We can always go back and read the thread ourselves if we didn't understand something,


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *estreeter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*D10 vs D4 vs Rx vs Lisa RS * (ok, that last one is a ring in, given that its a desktop design, but I couldnt resist). Eagerly awaiting the reviews from yourself and Skylab - not sure where you both find the time._

 

At the NYC Fall Meet last week, Vinnie form Red Wine Audio had a couple of RX amps from ALO, and I was really impressed with them. It took everything that I could throw it it, and the sound quality was first rate!

 Vinnie had to come find me to get it back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice!


----------



## estreeter

immitbiker, I expect that it will come down to personal preference, but on paper the D4/Rx battle looks very interesting indeed.


----------



## qusp

but isnt one a dac/amp and one just amp only?? and one has a digital pot and dual power supplies and the other not?? seems they are pretty much as different as you can get when talking about portable amps.

 for me i'll wait for the pico slim for that bracket, then i'll probably use it half the time straight out of DIYMOD and the rest taped to the bottom of my iriver->D10 stack


----------



## estreeter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but isnt one a dac/amp and one just amp only?? and one has a digital pot and dual power supplies and the other not?? seems they are pretty much as different as you can get when talking about portable amps.
_

 

You could be right - chalk and cheese - but I expect that their respective amp sections will be compared in much the same way that the Lisa III is still compared with amps that were never intended to compete at that pricepoint. Time will tell.


----------



## Greeink

I've been taking a good look at many portable DAC/ AMP 's and I think I've decided on the iBasso D10 Cobra to go along with my beyerdynamic DT-880 Pros (250 Ohms).... 

 For the price and what you get... it seems to be a pretty good "deal." 

 What do you folks think? Any other recommendations?


 Greeink.


----------



## dwonk

If one were to swap the caps out, would it be a waste to just switch out the 220uF set only? I would like to do them both but the space issue with the 470uF seems a bit much to deal with.


----------



## jamato8

It wouldn't be a waste but not as noticeable. If possible the larger caps need to be changed out if you are going to upgrade them but then I guess the best was is to try it and see what you hear. It doesn't take that long to change out the 220 caps.


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

have u compared the d10 to the linearrossa w3,
 they look exactly the same!


----------



## LevA

I will be soon doing the BG modification once I receive them. and yeah, I'm a bit worried about the tight space as well. to make matters worse, I don't think I can pull it off so will be getting someone else (computer technician) to do the soldering. I hope he will figure it out..
 I'm hoping to have a slight improvement in the lower end in the amp section, which I find slightly lacking when used as amp only. still good but would love to improve it that extra bit, as when used as Dac/Amp combo the low end is perfectly balanced.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be soon doing the BG modification once I receive them. and yeah, I'm a bit worried about the tight space as well. to make matters worse, I don't think I can pull it off so will be getting someone else (computer technician) to do the soldering. I hope he will figure it out..
 I'm hoping to have a slight improvement in the lower end in the amp section, which I find slightly lacking when used as amp only. still good but would love to improve it that extra bit, as when used as Dac/Amp combo the low end is perfectly balanced._

 

If you are satisfied with the D10 sound when using the DAC as the input to your amp, it is likely that your source is the problem with the lesser amount of bass when using the Aux input. The same amp section is used with both the DAC and the Aux input.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are satisfied with the D10 sound when using the DAC as the input to your amp, it is likely that your source is the problem with the lesser amount of bass when using the Aux input. The same amp section is used with both the DAC and the Aux input._

 

yeah I have been wondering if that might be the case as well. I'm using the early ipod classic (2007) which most people tend to agree that it's not the best of the bunch of ipods out there. I'm thinking of trying out the new ones at the store to see if I can get an improvement and if so move up to 160Gb classic (2009). 

 I am very satisfied when using macbook > optical> Dac/Amp combination. I just figured the Dac might have been the reason for the improvement rather than the source.

 Thanks for the tip though. I will definitely follow up on that. with your topkit OBCA 744/ 8201 the SQ is just great and don't feel the need to do any more opamp rolling.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be soon doing the BG modification once I receive them. and yeah, I'm a bit worried about the tight space as well. to make matters worse, I don't think I can pull it off so will be getting someone else (computer technician) to do the soldering. I hope he will figure it out..
 I'm hoping to have a slight improvement in the lower end in the amp section, which I find slightly lacking when used as amp only. still good but would love to improve it that extra bit, as when used as Dac/Amp combo the low end is perfectly balanced._

 

After I modded my D10 with BGs, I never opened it again, fearing that I would have to go through the agony again of putting it back together.
 So I selected the TLE2141-CA/EL8201 as my last topkit.
 Good luck in your mod.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After I modded my D10 with BGs, I never opened it again, fearing that I would have to go through the agony again of putting it back together.
 So I selected the TLE2141-CA/EL8201 as my last topkit.
 Good luck in your mod._

 

thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 hopefully the unit will work when we turn it on after the mod


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LevA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 hopefully the unit will work when we turn it on after the mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Carefully check for shorts and cold solder first then power it up and listen to make sure its working before you slide the board back in. I slid the board from back, it is slightly easier that way. It still scraped the top of the 220 and the sides of the 470.


----------



## toads

and be patient...

 i rolled in the 220uF and 470uF last week and am at ~80-90hrs...the SQ is quite variable, never know which D10 i'm going to get when i power up...

 for the last day it has been the flat, thin, muddy D10...


----------



## LevA

yeah, i really hate the burn in process...my D10 got replaced recently and still burning in the new one..i lost track but I think I'm close to 300..
 I wish they would just come with factory burn in so we can enjoy the sound from the get go..
 but then again there is the thrill of hearing the change, which really puts a smile on one face...and then there's impatience... *evil*


----------



## dwonk

Is it possible to carefully arrange the large ones without having to break the dremel out to pare some off the interior of the outer case? I have basic soldering skills and the 220uF solder pads seem to be straight forward; in areas where it is not populated with other pads/SM parts. Besides the space issue, the 470uF is requires another skill level entirely, I can't even see where the most rear capacitor punches thru the board, is it mounted just on the top surface?

 Oh, and thanks Ron, I got the 744/2141/8201 top-kit safe and sound. Rolled in the 744/8201 and liked the detail, especially in my live recordings. You can run the AD744 and the TLE2141 without the buffers (ie, the dummy buffers that came with the D10 in the rolling kit)? I read some where you thought that the buffers reduced bass impact but gave the sound more air or realism.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *toads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and be patient...

 i rolled in the 220uF and 470uF last week and am at ~80-90hrs...the SQ is quite variable, never know which D10 i'm going to get when i power up...

 for the last day it has been the flat, thin, muddy D10...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That is the down side. Expect 10x that.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dwonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it possible to carefully arrange the large ones WITHOUT having to break the dremel out to pare some off the interior of the outer case? I have basic soldering skills and the 220uF solder pads seem to be straight forward; in areas where it is not populated with other pads/SM parts. Besides the space issue, the 470uF is requires another skill level entirely, I can't even see where the most rear capacitor punches thru the board, is it mounted just on the top surface?

 Oh, and thanks Ron, I got the 744/2141/8201 top-kit safe and sound. Rolled in the 744/8201 and liked the detail, especially in my live recordings. You can run the AD744 and the TLE2141 without the buffers (ie, the dummy buffers that came with the D10 in the rolling kit)? I read some where you thought that the buffers reduced bass impact but gave the sound more air or realism._

 

The orig caps have thinner leads. The 470s leads go through the board but it is tight. I had to cleanup the old solder to get them through.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dwonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...................................snip........... ..
 Oh, and thanks Ron, I got the 744/2141/8201 top-kit safe and sound. Rolled in the 744/8201 and liked the detail, especially in my live recordings. You can run the AD744 and the TLE2141 without the buffers (ie, the dummy buffers that came with the D10 in the rolling kit)? I read some where you thought that the buffers reduced bass impact but gave the sound more air or realism._

 

Yes, you can use the dummies with both L/R modules. It depends upon the impedance of your phones whether it will improve the SQ or not. The main reason for buffers is for impedance matching purposes. 

 The D4 Topkit, for example, uses zero resistance dummies instead of buffers, but it also uses different L/R opamps than does the D10. 

 It is not possible to make a hard and fast rule regarding the use or non-use of buffers. Just try it both ways and see which way you think sounds best.


----------



## TopQuark

With a number of DIY's, someone should really put together a kit complete with sets of opamps, BG's or equivalent, assembly instructions, and sell it at eBay.


----------



## Illuminator

Hi guys, 
 Just want to know if the D10 pairs well with the IE8s. My source is iTouch, Thanks.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Illuminator* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, 
 Just want to know if the D10 pairs well with the IE8s. My source is iTouch, Thanks._

 

Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio - Search Results


----------



## qusp

hey guys, an interesting idea occurred to me; after performing a few mods to full size dacs by way of multiple power supply and discrete opamp mods, a thought occurred to me. what if we were to cut the power trace supplying the output stage and wire in a separate supply/battery with more current?? leave the signal pin attached, but supply the output with another battery through a couple small smoothing/resevoir caps?? this would allow the use of higher current; higher performance opamps and perhaps even discrete buffers. I reckon with a little squeezing a 4-6 aaa 1.2v or a couple of LiPo4 cameron Sino iphone 3g upgrade batteries could be used. with using a separate supply for the output stage, we wouldnt have to worry about overvoltage on the dac section and could give the opamps as much juice as we can fit. hell could even use a separate box full of batteries and a couple of discrete opamps and buffers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 whos gonna be the first??


----------



## qusp

actually, wouldnt even need to cut the trace, could simply lift the supply pins on the opamps and wire the supply directly


----------



## qusp

DP


----------



## trentino

D10 sure seems like the most clever choice when deciding between Dac/Amp combos below $300. Too bad I have zero knowledge in the whole opamp thingy. I get stomach aches every time I read a thread and opamp is mentioned.

 Is D10 worth it even if only used as it is?


----------



## sq225917

yeh it sounds great, with modded op-amps it sounds a touch better.


----------



## trentino

I'm a bit confused with the D10's different inputs. I see the use of optical if one has a DAP with optical out like the old iriver's, but what other use can one have of the optical and coaxial input? Any examples? Can the optical be used between the home receiver and the head phones? Can the optical be used directly from the PS3 optical out? Or are the different inputs in D10 mainly aimed for the laptop/computers sound card?


----------



## HiFlight

You can use the D10 optical input from any audio device that has a "digital" output, either optical or coax. I use mine mostly from my iRiver H120, but there are a number of CD players, DVD players, game boxes, etc that have digital outputs. Any of these will work with the D10. There are a couple of different tips that you might need for matching optical cables, but they are readily available.


----------



## stringgz301

So I've been playing around with a Mac OSX software oscilloscope (SignalScope). The attached is the result of running a square wave through the following chain:

 Macbook Pro -> optical out -> D10 -> line out -> Macbook Pro line in

 As you can see there is a considerable amount of ringing, although I don't have another source to compare it to, except for the analog line out of the Macbook itself, which is even worse (2nd attachment).

 I'm just curious but has anyone tried to mod the dac portion of the D10? As far as I know changing the opamps and upgrading the caps only affects the amplifier portion.

 Thanks


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stringgz301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've been playing around with a Mac OSX software oscilloscope (SignalScope). The attached is the result of running a square wave through the following chain:

 Macbook Pro -> optical out -> D10 -> line out -> Macbook Pro line in

 As you can see there is a considerable amount of ringing, although I don't have another source to compare it to, except for the analog line out of the Macbook itself, which is even worse (2nd attachment).

 I'm just curious but has anyone tried to mod the dac portion of the D10? As far as I know changing the opamps and upgrading the caps only affects the amplifier portion.

 Thanks_

 

Send the results to iBasso and see what they think.


----------



## vkvedam

DP


----------



## vkvedam

Well after much of an anticipation and long wait, order has been placed. Whew!


----------



## saitoh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stringgz301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've been playing around with a Mac OSX software oscilloscope (SignalScope). The attached is the result of running a square wave through the following chain:

 Macbook Pro -> optical out -> D10 -> line out -> Macbook Pro line in

 As you can see there is a considerable amount of ringing, although I don't have another source to compare it to, except for the analog line out of the Macbook itself, which is even worse (2nd attachment).

 I'm just curious but has anyone tried to mod the dac portion of the D10? As far as I know changing the opamps and upgrading the caps only affects the amplifier portion.

 Thanks_

 

I've done macbook optical > d10 (line out) > Sound Devices 722.

 I was doing some testing of the 722 to see how some of it's filters worked and noticed in the baseline recording without anything special on that my white noise sample had odd volume fluctuations. The overall constant sound was, well, constant minus some expected noise, but it had a fluctuating set of peaks that the original didn't.

 I don't necessarily think the two are linked, but it's an interesting observation.


----------



## ryuzoh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stringgz301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've been playing around with a Mac OSX software oscilloscope (SignalScope)._

 

The SignalScope does provide worse rectangular wave....
 I also tried and observed the ringing like that at 1kHz.
 (MacBook -> USB 48kHz -> D4+fi.Q or D10 -> MacBook line input)

 So, I actually measured with my oscilloscope and audio generator, see below pic..
Attachment 23685
 D10 w/ 10kHz rectangular.
 (AG-204 -> D10 -> DSO1014A)


----------



## jamato8

Looks like a good square waive to me.


----------



## toads

at ~200hrs the BG caps are commanding some serious respect...!

 WOW.

 buy, install, curse, praise...


----------



## jamato8

Yes, BG's can drive you nuts as you wonder, "was this worth it?" And you wait and then they start forming and coming into voice and they get better and better.


----------



## LevA

I'm still waiting for my BGs to arrive so I can install them. but just want to ask what exactly does the Bgs improve? the lower end? wider or deeper soundstage? 
 also Jamato8, having the D10 modded and D4 what would you say the differences are? 
 thanks


----------



## toads

well what my untrained ear has noticed over the past week is a low end...say <120-150Hz...that is more textured, tauter, more impactful...i'm also noticing bottom end tonalities i've not heard in familiar songs before...

 however it seems today they took a step back....sounding a tad flabby and loose...


----------



## immtbiker

That is par for the course. It will step back, here and there, and then it will excel to your liking.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *toads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well what my untrained ear has noticed over the past week is a low end...say <120-150Hz...that is more textured, tauter, more impactful...i'm also noticing bottom end tonalities i've not heard in familiar songs before...

 however it seems today they took a step back....sounding a tad flabby and loose... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

As caps are forming, the sound can change around between ones that are enjoyed more and less. As the caps form more fully and stably, though, I've always had it happen that the final sound was the best ever. I've never had it end up that the final sound was one of the sounds that I did not enjoy as much along the way. But, while the caps are forming, expect to hear changes in the sound.


----------



## toads

any preferred method to accelerating the 'forming process'...?

 i've heard one way is to turn the gadget on and just let it run with a hours rest here and there...

 or conversely

 to turn the unit off every few hours with 15-20 minutes rest to allow the caps to discharge...this cycling reportedly advances the forming process...

 hmmm....


----------



## qusp

just listen to the thing will you. it doesnt sound terrible, but it does get better. there arew times when it wavers, but thats when I just leave it on and use one of my other amps


----------



## toads

fffft...i don't turn to another itty-bitty one...when it falters i turn to 4 big, warm Gold Lion KT88 tubes and sit in awe of the divine aural liquid that emanates from the de-capo-i's...


----------



## jamato8

Love tubes. Nothing like tubes. 

 But since we are talkin' bout this SS amp I have found that listening and then turning the amp off for a while and then turning back on helps to form the caps a little faster but the up and down with bass control, opening and closing in of the sound stage, transparency great, bad is all routine, especially with Black Gates and sometime for so lonnnngggg. But they are very much worth it.


----------



## wuwhere

I burned mine for a month and half. I would leave it on for 23 hours then turn it off for 1 hour to drain the caps. Often times I let it run continuously for 48 or 72 hours then turn it off for 1 hour. I was logging all these hours. After about 1K hours, the sound never changed anymore.


----------



## LevA

sounds like its a case of 'no pain, no gain..' with these BG buggers...


----------



## qusp

hmm, well I'm not that regimented. I use my amp a great deal anyway; the first few weeks I would leave it on at night after I had finished work for the day, but I certainly wasnt hanging around not using it until it was done.


----------



## vkvedam

D10 has finally made it's presence. Outstanding right out of the box. Quick question about 4.7k resistor, has it been rectified in this batch or should I email iBasso? Cheers all for making this possible.


----------



## stringgz301

Accidentally posted this in the wrong forum. Do any of the D10 internals experts know if the opamps are in the line out signal path? In other words, does changing the opamps have any impact on the D10 when used in DAC only mode?

 Thanks


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stringgz301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Accidentally posted this in the wrong forum. Do any of the D10 internals experts know if the opamps are in the line out signal path? In other words, does changing the opamps have any impact on the D10 when used in DAC only mode?

 Thanks_

 

Nope!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stringgz301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Accidentally posted this in the wrong forum. Do any of the D10 internals experts know if the opamps are in the line out signal path? In other words, does changing the opamps have any impact on the D10 when used in DAC only mode?

 Thanks_

 

See page #194. Madwolf already answered this question before.


----------



## shigzeo

Well I heard the Quest Fi today - phenomenal. Space, bass, pace - spades. And, I am queueing up my purchase... March or so? I won't do a 1,2,3 or anything, but the iBasso fi model is quite phenomenal, if huge.


----------



## jamato8

Yep, not to get off track of the D10 but the fi.Q is going to open some eyes for a price that won't kill you. Extremely versatile.


----------



## hvu

I was wondering if these blackgates would fit and work in the D10?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Black-Gate-3300-...t_1179&afsrc=1


----------



## jamato8

They are too big and that seller has them for 6 more dollars than retail and having known him for years the only way he can do business is ebay because he treats customers like s*** and most people will no longer do business with his web site.


----------



## hvu

Thank you for the heads up Jama, can you point me to a place where I can get the proper blackgate caps for my D10.


----------



## qusp

sonicraft


----------



## jamato8

Yes, but he needs the size and type, N or FK. Anyway 2 220uf nonpolar 6.3 volt and 2 470uf. Were those polar or nonpolar? I did the mod a long time ago. I can't remember what I started. . . oh more is the pity. . lol

 Ok I used 470uf 6.3 nx X 2. It is a very, very tight fit so you need to think about lead length before you cut them, mostly on the 470uf caps. There are images somewhere here in this thread.

 Sonicraft is closed until the 3rd or 4th of January.


----------



## hvu

nm


----------



## vkvedam

Well thats Soniccraft, not Sonicraft.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for the heads up Jama, can you point me to a place where I can get the proper blackgate caps for my D10._

 

Here's the link to Soniccraft NX Black Gates caps for the D10.

Black Gate Audio Capacitors

 You would need 2-NX470 uF and 2-NX220 uF. Both are non-polarized.


----------



## hvu

Thanks for all the help but I am going to order my bg from a Canadian company because Soniccraft don't have any NX220 uf left in stock.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for all the help but I am going to order my bg from a Canadian company because Soniccraft don't have any NX220 uf left in stock._

 

There is a supplier in Canada (I forgot the name of it). I was going to buy from them (I actually placed an order but cancelled it) when I learned of Soniccraft.


----------



## qusp

partsconnexion is in canada


----------



## vkvedam

Dear All
 How to reduce the RFI further just using the stock opamp configuration. Cheers


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vkvedam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dear All
 How to reduce the RFI further just using the stock opamp configuration. Cheers_

 

Go to Quick Bridge Solutions - EM Shield for iPhone for an EMI blocking card or two to attach to the amp. And, the AD8656 opamp with bypassed buffers has less RFI and better battery life.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vkvedam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dear All
 How to reduce the RFI further just using the stock opamp configuration. Cheers_

 

Wear a tin foil hat
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but seriously, the best way is to not use the stock opamps


----------



## vkvedam

Sorry about this, I think I am still a noob even though I've got good DIY skills. In those triangular op amp sockets which one's Left, which one's Right and which One's GND. Or any combination with two op amps (Say for instance 8656) and one dummy would work?

 Cheers...


----------



## qusp

the D10 doesnt take single channel opamps unless you put 2 on an adapter. it only takes duals. the L/R opamp is the one by itself; the other two are the buffers and no you cannot use just one buffer; you either use one in the I/V section and both buffers bypassed, or both buffer positions must be filled with buffers or a suitable opamp


----------



## vkvedam

Well I've put one 8656 at the top and the other 8656 to the left. And then used the dummy one on the right. Orientation is with the USB, Coax and Optical to my left hand side and headphone and Aux to the right. Seems to be fine, correct me if I've to do it the other way. Cheers qusp!


----------



## vkvedam

Sorry about this qusp, but I am still waiting for your response.


----------



## jamato8

You would have the 8656 in the buffer section with the opamp section bypassed. You would normally have the opamp section used and the buffer section bypassed. So you would utilize one 8656.


----------



## vkvedam

Does it mean that I've to leave the bottom two empty? Cheers...


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vkvedam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does it mean that I've to leave the bottom two empty? Cheers..._

 

To clarify again, the 2 side-by-side sockets and need to be both bypassed with dummy opamps, or 2 like opamps used. The single socket is for a dual channel opamp of which one channel is for left and the other for right. Do not use a dummy opamp in this socket. 

 With the AD8656, you can use it in the single socket for L/R and 2 dummy opamps for bypassing the buffer stage or you can also use opamps in the buffer sockets, whichever your ears prefer, but make sure and use 2 of the same, whatever they are. 

 Ron


----------



## qusp

jebus, please tell me this is sorted out? I thought I was pretty clear, do NOT bypass the I/V position, although the wolfston chip has internal I/V you could run into DC offset as a minimum problem.

 with the amp volume knob facing towards you there will be one socket on the right and 2 on the left. the one on the right is the amp section and the 2 on the left are the buffers. all sockets are designed for dual channel opamps or 2 singles on an adapter. the amp position can never be bypassed, but the buffers can if the opamp in the amp position is suitably powerful.

 vkvedam: sorry I wasnt around, but perhaps its not a wise idea to wait around for me to reply, I am pretty busy at the moment and not always around, luckily there are plenty of other knowledgeable members


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To clarify again, the 2 side-by-side sockets and need to be both bypassed with dummy opamps, or 2 like opamps used. The single socket is for a dual channel opamp of which one channel is for left and the other for right. Do not use a dummy opamp in this socket. 

 With the AD8656, you can use it in the single socket for L/R and 2 dummy opamps for bypassing the buffer stage or you can also use opamps in the buffer sockets, whichever your ears prefer, but make sure and use 2 of the same, whatever they are. 

 Ron_

 

Thanks for making it clear about the sockets. But using the 8656 in L/R socket with two dummy ones as buffers is resulting in only the left channel being fed. If I use one 8565 in L/R and second one as a buffer along with a dummy op amp resulting in a perfect balanced sound. Is there anything wrong, in other words am I causing any damage to the circuitry by doing so.

 Cheers..


----------



## qusp

this is not correct. I think you are looking at the amp wrong. please read my above post. if looking at the amp from the front. the amp socket is on the right and the 2 buffers on the left.


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this is not correct. I think you are looking at the amp wrong. please read my above post. if looking at the amp from the front. the amp socket is on the right and the 2 buffers on the left._

 

Yup!, I tried to describe the amp orientation from the side. But you didn't get my point. I've got 8656 in the amp socket and another one in the two buffer slots and I've mixed it with the LMH6643. Sounds good (To my ears) compared to having both the 6643s in the buffers. Please refer to the rough diagram. Cheers...


----------



## vkvedam

I am sorry. Well I've just seen the orientation and everything's fine, 8656 with dummys is outstanding with my Shure 840s. Just outstanding. Thanks a lot qusp, Jama and Ron.


----------



## qusp

it wasnt that I didnt get your point; its that you cant describe it from the side, from the side it is a mirror image so no way to tell you which way is which. it is easier to describe something in terms of left and right rather than back and front.AND left and right and even easier to say there are 2 buffer sockets and 1 opamp socket. the buffers are together and the opamp is by itself 

 hehe of course it sounded good having something in the amp socket when compared to not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 oh and if you are ever thinking of doing the blackgate mod.....dont 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 dont worry about me, just having a bit of a laugh; and dont worry about the help its all good


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


 oh and if you are ever thinking of doing the blackgate mod.....dont 
 






 I shall, someday...


----------



## Nachkebia

It is my fist post here, I just want to say I have recieved D10 couple of days ago and I am loving every second of it, sourcing it from laptop and Ps3 to my Sure E5c and I am loving it. also waiting for HD650 to arrive and hoping D10 can drive it too


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh and if you are ever thinking of doing the blackgate mod.....dont 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vkvedam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 I shall, someday..._

 

I agree, don't, i.e., don't forget to do it


----------



## qusp

hopefully thats a little way off yet; worthwhile doing, but I wouldnt recommend it right now thats for sure


----------



## heishiro

good PM to all the D10 users, i just want to ask about the D10's output power..
 is it true that it only have Output Power: Up to *100mW+100mW into 32 Ohm* ?
 or is it higher? i also look at the D2+ boa's specs and it also have Output Power: Up to *100mW+100mW into 32 Ohm*
 reminding me about the D4 w/c is rated Output Power: Upto *230mW+230Mw into 32 Ohms*

 well my main concern is actually about the amp power, im planning to buy an amp and
 upgrade to MS2i, but im not sure if the D2+ and D10 power is enough to drive the alessandro


----------



## qusp

it really depends on the opamps and buffers you have installed. the grados/allesandros will be driven fine in either case as they are a pretty easy target


----------



## heishiro

@qusp

 thank you for answering my noob question, so does it mean either i get the cheaper D2+
 i wont have any prob using grado 325 or alessandro MS2?


----------



## qusp

AFAIK all grados/allesandros are rated at 30ohms, which should be driven fine by either dac/amp. but with the D10 you have the ability to swap the opamps for something better sounding (or simply more suited to your tastes) and more power is almost always desirable. the D2 does not have this option (although there was a version that did some time ago) if you are only using usb, you might consider the D4 instead


----------



## heishiro

thank you again for answering. i will use it as portable amp and more as a dac attached to laptop
 so far still cant decide w/c amp/dac to get..


----------



## vkvedam

If you're just going to use it as a DAC with USB then you could go for D4. My primary system is out of optical or else I would have gone for D4. Hope this helps your concern.


----------



## heishiro

thank you *vkvedam*! but i will also use it as portable travel amp.. the only thing i
 dont like about the D4 is its battery system, and using 9v only 8-10 hours


----------



## qusp

9v will give you a greater choice of higher quality opamps. still many of the top tier wont be useable though


----------



## Nachkebia

AD4841-2 with AD8656 as buffers are my favorite so far, I tried AD8656 with bypassed buffers but it was too thin for me, I guess it depends on phones as well


----------



## qusp

yeah of the stock ones thats a pretty good combo; sounds like its time you bought some others. OPA211 x 2 or OPA1611/12 are great in this dac/amp IMO. just finished off a BG mod for a member with HiC BUF634 and compensated OPA211. will take some pics of the finished unit this time as promised. too dark now, but will take some pics tomorrow for those who have asked me about how you fit the bypass caps in


----------



## Nachkebia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah of the stock ones thats a pretty good combo; sounds like its time you bought some others. OPA211 x 2 or OPA1611/12 are great in this dac/amp IMO. just finished off a BG mod for a member with HiC BUF634 and compensated OPA211. will take some pics of the finished unit this time as promised. too dark now, but will take some pics tomorrow for those who have asked me about how you fit the bypass caps in_

 

I would love to buy whole bunch but I can not seem to find a place to order them, help would be appreciated! whats BG mod?


----------



## qusp

huh? you can get opamps all over the world in electronics supplies stores. websites like digikey, mouser, farnell, partsconnexion, RSonline, ebay (but be careful of fakes)

 BG is Blackgate mod, it involves replacing the stock capacitors, both in the power rail and output section with higher grade blackgate caps and in my case adding blackgate bypass caps in super E configuration. then I did a series of other mods with highly modified opamps and buffers in custom adapters as well as replacing the Headphone out mini with a silver switchcraft model (contrary to belief the stock mini is NOT switchcraft


----------



## Nachkebia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BG is Blackgate mod, it involves replacing the stock capacitors, both in the power rail and output section with higher grade blackgate caps and in my case adding blackgate bypass caps in super E configuration. then I did a series of other mods with highly modified opamps and buffers in custom adapters as well as replacing the Headphone out mini with a silver switchcraft model (contrary to belief the stock mini is NOT switchcraft_

 






 sounds very very intriguing, so how much the whole modding including top notch opamps cost?


----------



## qusp

I should qualify the switchcraft thing. its not a model i've seen before, put it that way. 

 hard to put a number on the mods because of parts coming from several places and the international shipping that came with that. its not something im really keen on doing as the time involved in doing it to my satisfaction is not small. this was more of a favor than anything.


----------



## Nachkebia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I should qualify the switchcraft thing. its not a model i've seen before, put it that way. 

 hard to put a number on the mods because of parts coming from several places and the international shipping that came with that. its not something im really keen on doing as the time involved in doing it to my satisfaction is not small. this was more of a favor than anything._

 

Fair enough, just let us know how mods will work out....


----------



## qusp

yeah I have a core business already and mods arent it. for me to charge the right amount it would end up costing close to the same again as the original unit. fine to do for myself and my friends, but not really worthwhile as a business venture. you might find someone here that will help, but i'm far too busy anyway. you can get part way there with just a change of opamp and buffers. hiflight or perhaps myself might help with that, but i'm on the other side of the planet as well. (not that I have any idea where you are ;D


----------



## Nachkebia

I am in Dubai


----------



## hvu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_huh? you can get opamps all over the world in electronics supplies stores. websites like digikey, mouser, farnell, partsconnexion, RSonline, ebay (but be careful of fakes)

 BG is Blackgate mod, it involves replacing the stock capacitors, both in the power rail and output section with higher grade blackgate caps and in my case adding blackgate bypass caps in super E configuration. then I did a series of other mods with highly modified opamps and buffers in custom adapters as well as replacing the Headphone out mini with a silver switchcraft model (contrary to belief the stock mini is NOT switchcraft_

 

I am about to do a BG mod once my caps arrive but not you have me wondering about ur super E configuration.
 If you don't mind providing more information about this mod and how does the D10 benefit from this mode?
 Pictures would be a great help also


----------



## qusp

OK guys, I finally got around to taking some pics of the BG mod and my version of uberOPamplification for y'all

*cap mods*

 • replaced power rail caps with 470uf blackgate NXHQ bypassed with 0.1uf NXHQ
 • replaced output caps with 220uf blackgate NXHQ bypassed with 22uf NXHQ

 'super E' is a process where you take a pair of non-polar caps, or one non-polar and one polar connect the positive lead to negative and negative to positive, so in effect you have one cap and issues of inductance with the leads are effectively cancelled out. blackgate make a big deal about this and its not exclusive to them.









 see whats going on here, to make it easier to fit everything I have replaced the leads on the caps with cryoparts 24AWG UPOCC silver (insulated leads) except for the bypass caps, the final touch is applying a small strip of teflon tape to prevent the bypass leads from shorting against the power rail. oh and some double sided tape to keep everything in place.







 and you can see there are just a few other differences from stock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	












 replaced the HP out with a switchcraft mini (silver) you can see they are similar, but not the same. the switchcraft is more solidly built, is silver and fits in perfectly








*uberOPamplification*

*• 2 x OPA211AID *on a cool little 2 x single to dual PCB, the power pins are bypassed with SMD (0805 package) Vishay COG 0.1% 0.1uf (100pf) still need to ground this PCB to the ground on the power supply cap to bring this into effect. (there is no ground pin on the socket or any opamp, some metal can types you may find the can grounded for shielding) these PCBs dont come with pins, you can use premade DIP pin assemblies, or you can go a bit loopy and use UPOCC silver wire sharpened to a point instead like I have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this also has the benefit of allowing you to make them any length you want and they are bendable, so easier to make it all fit.

*• 4 x BUF634U *on 2 x browndog singoe to dual adapters, set to Hi current mode buy applying 220 ohms vishay 0.1% metal film resistors directly across pins 1-4 on each chip. this value isnt hard and fast, I have used anywhere between 100-250R here depending on the circuit.






 I wont be able to answer questions oin this for a day or 2, but i'm sure one of the other guys can help out if there are questions, this was designed to answer some Q's, not cause more. there are others here that have done the BG mod and their own version of 'uberOPamplification' other chips can be used to taste, but this combo is as good as I have heard the D10 sound and about as much as the power supply can handle. battery life is reduced a bit because of the buffers set to high current mode, but not too much.

 hope that helps


----------



## madwolf

Great writeup QUSP, Great sharp picture, and I love the fonts you use for the part's numbering on the picture. 


 OT. The picture are so clear that I could see that you have shed a white hair on the OPA211.


----------



## qusp

LOL, yeah thats my siamese cat's hair, i'm not going quite that grey yet. I thought of photoshopping that out, but couldnt be bothered in the end.
 thanks for the compliments. I hope it is helpful to some people wanting to do this mod.
 I havent replaced the mica caps (at least i'm pretty sure they are micas) right next to the mini at the front there, because i'm not sure there is a better cap for the job. perhaps silver mica (which these could well be anyway)


----------



## jamato8

Great work. But if you are using stacked buffers you only need one resistor for high C if pulling power from the same pin.


----------



## qusp

they arent stacked remember; I thought about that, but because this is 2 single buffers combined onto a dual adapter to make a dual buffer. i'm not sure that would suffice. i'll probably try both before I send this off, but thats the way it is at the moment. i'll trace the adapters and component pins out to check that they arent in parallel later on. if I were stacking on a single adapter thats exactly what I would do, just solder it across 1-4 on the adapter


----------



## jamato8

Nice work and I am off to work myself. :^) Twelve and a half hours in ICU. Hey, it's all good, in one way or another.


----------



## madwolf

The 2 nos of BUF634 are not stacked, on the D10 there are 2 nos of 4.7 ohm to each of the input from the L/R, and there is a 1 ohm resistor at each output. On the D10 itself there are 4 nos of 1ohm resistor, and 4 nos of 4.7 ohm resistor.


----------



## qusp

just confirmed; pin 1 (component adapter pin) doesnt show continuity between IC1 and IC2 on a 2 to 1 adapter. the Rs are not in parallel and just putting 200R across 1-4 on the adapter will not work because of this.

 in fact pin 1 is not connected to ANYTHING on IC2 (top side)


----------



## wolfen68

Great post qusp. That's a great example of one of the reasons I love this place.


----------



## hvu

Thank you Qusp for the awesome info and pictures.
 I was kind of worried how I was going to get the 220uf in but now it doesn't look so bad to do.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK guys, I finally got around to taking some pics of the BG mod and my version of uberOPamplification for y'all

*cap mods*

 • replaced power rail caps with 470uf blackgate NXHQ bypassed with 0.1uf NXHQ
 • replaced output caps with 220uf blackgate NXHQ bypassed with 22uf NXHQ

 'super E' is a process where you take a pair of non-polar caps, or one non-polar and one polar connect the positive lead to negative and negative to positive, so in effect you have one cap and issues of inductance with the leads are effectively cancelled out. blackgate make a big deal about this and its not exclusive to them.










 see whats going on here, to make it easier to fit everything I have replaced the leads on the caps with cryoparts 24AWG UPOCC silver (insulated leads) except for the bypass caps, the final touch is applying a small strip of teflon tape to prevent the bypass leads from shorting against the power rail. oh and some double sided tape to keep everything in place.







 and you can see there are just a few other differences from stock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	












 replaced the HP out with a switchcraft mini (silver) you can see they are similar, but not the same. the switchcraft is more solidly built, is silver and fits in perfectly








*uberOPamplification*

*• 2 x OPA211AID *on a cool little 2 x single to dual PCB, the power pins are bypassed with SMD (0805 package) Vishay COG 0.1% 0.1uf (100pf) still need to ground this PCB to the ground on the power supply cap to bring this into effect. (there is no ground pin on the socket or any opamp, some metal can types you may find the can grounded for shielding) these PCBs dont come with pins, you can use premade DIP pin assemblies, or you can go a bit loopy and use UPOCC silver wire sharpened to a point instead like I have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this also has the benefit of allowing you to make them any length you want and they are bendable, so easier to make it all fit.

*• 4 x BUF634U *on 2 x browndog singoe to dual adapters, set to Hi current mode buy applying 220 ohms vishay 0.1% metal film resistors directly across pins 1-4 on each chip. this value isnt hard and fast, I have used anywhere between 100-250R here depending on the circuit.






 I wont be able to answer questions oin this for a day or 2, but i'm sure one of the other guys can help out if there are questions, this was designed to answer some Q's, not cause more. there are others here that have done the BG mod and their own version of 'uberOPamplification' other chips can be used to taste, but this combo is as good as I have heard the D10 sound and about as much as the power supply can handle. battery life is reduced a bit because of the buffers set to high current mode, but not too much.

 hope that helps_


----------



## qusp

actually those 220uf are the trickiest (large) caps to install, its hard to see in the pics but the leads arent going straight down into the holes, you need to leave a bit of length in the leads (an uneven amount too)and push the entire cap over laterally and then down, hard to explain, but the holes for the 220uf cap leads are almost underneath the 470uf, the second 220uf is like this too, but to a lesser degree. this is another reason to use your own insulated wire for the 470uf and put tape on the PCB to protect against shorts

 thanks for the props wolfen, I figure we gotta keep the good energy/info flowing around this place. i've learned a lot from detailed posts like this too in the past since joining and since i'm more in a position to give back these days I think I have the responsibility to do so; helps the vibe too I reckon. quite a few people have been asking me for this info for a while now, so i'm only sorry it took me this long.

 also I forgot to label the second 0.1uf bypass on the far left 470uf in the first pic. you can see it quite clearly laying down on top of the switch soldered directly to the very top of the leads. just forgot to point it out, the other one I did though (with my chicken scratch writing); the one hiding next to the battery.


----------



## madwolf

Happy New year everyone, 2009 have been a year busy swapping OP-AMP. 
 and to continue my training in the area of head-fi I will begin 2010 swapping Capacitors. 

 I have all read the how different capacitors sound in different setup, but I will never really know unless I listen to them, The experience was really an ear opener when I tried it years also with all the Plastic, paper and different magical capacitors. I never believe in electrolytic (results from reading to much), and have always avoided them with DC servo to remove the DC offset. 

 Swapping Capacitors could be tricky, Lead inductance will be an issue, At audio frequency a capacitors would act like an inductor, I would prefer to solder each cap direct onto the board, but heat will means that I have to run the cap for a while to let to reform, In the end I choose to socket my D10 for this purpose. The leads of the cap are kept to the minimum and temperature and condition of all caps are keep as constant as possible to reduce the forming effects of the electrolytic. 

 All cap are chosen to be 10mm*12.5mm, as this is the largest size that will fit into the D10. Voltage of capacitors has to be 6.3 or above and the maximum capacitance from the series. This is the restriction that amp designer face and we as end user will have to content with. Op-amp would be 2211 on the LR and Single BUF634 HiC for buffers 









 The line up of capacitors are as follows. 

 From ELNA we have 
 1) Cerefine 16V 100uF
 2) Silmic 16V 100uF
 3) Silmic 2 6.3V 220uf 
 4) ROV Solid electrolytic audio cap 16V 470uF

 From Nichicon corner, presenting
 1) Fine Gold FG 6.3V 470uf
 2) ES BP 16V 100uf Bi-polar 

 From Sanyo challengers are 
 1) WX 6.3v 1000uf
 2) OSCON SP series 16v 470uF

 Legends from Panasonic (they are often compared to Black gates 10 years ago)
 1) FC 330uf

 Representing Nippon Chemicon 
 1) ASF 16V 470uf (This is the cap that comes with the D10)

 A highly recommended capacitors from our Japanese friends 
 1) Toshin UTSJ 16V 470uF 


 Not missing from the list with be the now extinct BlackGates NX Bi Polar. 
 I cannot get the exact size of 10mm*12.5 But would be included in the listening test as a reference. 

 The list of capacitors would not be restricted to the above, will look for more (Time and wallet permitting). 

 Currently the caps are going forming/burn in process on a rotation basis, I plan to have at least 100hours burn in for each cap. 

 Initial observation (hear-servation). 
 Capacitors rolling change the texture of the sound especially the timbre the harshness the body and sweetness of the vocal and instrument. 

 OP-AMP however changes the whole spectrum, the noise level, the amount of distortion, the overall presentation and most importantly the resolution of the sound. The layering. 

 For current D10 owner who have heard the D4, the differences in sound comes mainly from the Toshin UTSJ. By placing this Cap on the D10 it is very hard to differentiate the 2 different amplifiers. That is if they are using the same OP-AMPs. So if you like the sound of the D4 you could roll capacitor to make your D10 sound like it, more warm and texture. 

 Let my training begin.


----------



## qusp

the sanyos SP oscon you have there are very nice; one of my favorite caps, but more at home in digital supply circuits. the UTSJ may need bypassing to sound their best because of the steel leads. the OSCON have pure copper leads, as do my other favorite among those, silmic II. I have to wonder hopw much better the Toshin would sound if they came with copper leads

 I predict the top contenders to be 
 silmic II
 Toshin (maybe number 1 if bypassed)
 Sanyo SP oscon (again in the right position this would be my favorite cap you have listed, but I actually prefer the SEPC version)
 Nichicon FG
 cerafine/pana FC

 Blackgate can be at the top of that list, or sometimes I prefer silmic II. I have only just started to hear the wonders of the toshin UTSJ since recieving my FiQuest and I really like what I hear, but the steel leads are really a short coming and if I cant bypass them i'm not sure I would use them.


----------



## madwolf

The latest OSCON comes with OFC leads. Depend on which series within OSCON 
 The SP series that I have does uses OFC. I do not expect them to excel here, More like left over parts from my D4 DC-DC converter projects. 

 Sanyo and ELNA ROV are the only 2 Polymer in my list . They have excellent (more like over the moon) spec but does not sound good as audio bypass. So far they sound thin. But I will reserve my comments until they are fully burned in. On the net it funny that there are only VERY GOOD or VERY BAD comments about them in that position. Nothing in between. Yes polymer are best suited for Power rails. 


 Forgot to add that I have a 0.22uF WIMA hard soldered to the underside of the PCB. 
 So there is some sort of bypass already, for every combo. 

 The Toshin are indeed very good and you could not find much about them especially in English. A new discovery for me as well. 

 BlackGates NX and Muse ES are the only Bi-polar, So far they are very warm and offer very good vocals. Unfortunately ES leads are steel as well.

 Will be trying some super E config and some plastic caps as well.


----------



## jamato8

Now that is dedication! Good luck. Yes induction can be a concern with the leads. I have some teflon caps with steel leads and to be honest, they sound excellent. They are plated with silver but still, steel??


----------



## immtbiker

@madwolf
 Perhaps you should invest in a second D10 so that you can compare "side by side" cap shootouts. It's a small price to pay to combat "_memory loss_", or even worse, catastrophic failure from heating up the PWB so much


----------



## wuwhere

That's a souped up D10.


----------



## TopQuark

Thanks Qusp for those excellent pictures!

 One question on the 470uf bypass, from what I am hearing, typical bypass cap to be used is 47uf. What is the reason in using 0.1uf? Is it a matter of not having enough room to fit the 47uf? What are the pros/cons in using 0.1uf?

 Sorry for this newbie question.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TopQuark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Qusp for those excellent pictures!

 One question on the 470uf bypass, from what I am hearing, typical bypass cap to be used is 47uf. What is the reason in using 0.1uf? Is it a matter of not having enough room to fit the 47uf? What are the pros/cons in using 0.1uf?

 Sorry for this newbie question._

 

Often for the sake of resonant frequencies a multiple of 10 is used for bypass so it would go from 470 to 47 to 4.7 to .47. Or some choose to go from 470 directly to a .47 to pass certain frequencies to ground. The .1 will work but may not be optimum for combination with the 470. There can actually be a ringing effect with the wrong bypass cap being used. Early on in digital circuitry they were using .l0 and .01 caps at the voltage in on the digital circuitry but they found this actually caused a degradation of the electrical signal so the bypass was eliminated, in many digital circuits. So it can be seen that it isn't always a plug or solder and play when it comes to bypass. 

 Scopes help a lot as ultimately does listening. I have seen stacked smd caps used to use the mult. of 10 for bypass and this can be very effective while taking up little room. Since the musical signal eventually "rides" on the DC it is imperative that the DC be as clean as possible, so the use of bypass caps to help or hinder the eventual musical party.


----------



## madwolf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@madwolf
 Perhaps you should invest in a second D10 so that you can compare "side by side" cap shootouts. It's a small price to pay to combat "memory loss", or even worse, catastrophic failure from heating up the PWB so much_

 

I added a "socket" to my D10 so that I could roll Capacitor within seconds. 
 The problem with soldering electrolytic is the heat. I would need to re burn in the capacitors. That is my biggest worry. I already have more than 10 different types of capacitors, If I burn in 100 hours each, it would take 1000hours or ~ 41 days.

 For Bypass.
 The reason we use electrolytic is because no other cap have this kind of capacity. At higher frequency an electrolytic capacitor is not effective as bypass. So if possible choose something of a different material. MKP, MKS is preferred but huge, MKT is good compromise.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TopQuark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Qusp for those excellent pictures!

 One question on the 470uf bypass, from what I am hearing, typical bypass cap to be used is 47uf. What is the reason in using 0.1uf? Is it a matter of not having enough room to fit the 47uf? What are the pros/cons in using 0.1uf?

 Sorry for this newbie question._

 

yes multiples of 10 or 100 are often used as I have in the output caps 220/22, but I find 0.1uf to be a good value for power supply bypassing. I would have used .47 if PCX had any available, but they didnt. 47uf would have fit and I have used this value before, but I just dont think such a value operates at a suitably high frequency for this purpose. in fact as madwolf says, electrolytic caps in general dont operate well at very high frequency, personally I find silver mica or vishay MKT to be superior in this position, but then I wouldnt get the lower inductance of super E. for me the jury is still out what wins in this trade off.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, the silver mica has proved to be a valuable bypass cap at a cost that doesn't hurt the pocket book.


----------



## mbllbm

to be the best opamps the d10 + pro 900?

 cheers i thank you


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK guys, I finally got around to taking some pics of the BG mod and my version of uberOPamplification for y'all

*cap mods*

 • replaced power rail caps with 470uf blackgate NXHQ bypassed with 0.1uf NXHQ
 • replaced output caps with 220uf blackgate NXHQ bypassed with 22uf NXHQ

 'super E' is a process where you take a pair of non-polar caps, or one non-polar and one polar connect the positive lead to negative and negative to positive, so in effect you have one cap and issues of inductance with the leads are effectively cancelled out. blackgate make a big deal about this and its not exclusive to them.










 see whats going on here, to make it easier to fit everything I have replaced the leads on the caps with cryoparts 24AWG UPOCC silver (insulated leads) except for the bypass caps, the final touch is applying a small strip of teflon tape to prevent the bypass leads from shorting against the power rail. oh and some double sided tape to keep everything in place.







 and you can see there are just a few other differences from stock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	












 replaced the HP out with a switchcraft mini (silver) you can see they are similar, but not the same. the switchcraft is more solidly built, is silver and fits in perfectly








*uberOPamplification*

*• 2 x OPA211AID *on a cool little 2 x single to dual PCB, the power pins are bypassed with SMD (0805 package) Vishay COG 0.1% 0.1uf (100pf) still need to ground this PCB to the ground on the power supply cap to bring this into effect. (there is no ground pin on the socket or any opamp, some metal can types you may find the can grounded for shielding) these PCBs dont come with pins, you can use premade DIP pin assemblies, or you can go a bit loopy and use UPOCC silver wire sharpened to a point instead like I have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this also has the benefit of allowing you to make them any length you want and they are bendable, so easier to make it all fit.

*• 4 x BUF634U *on 2 x browndog singoe to dual adapters, set to Hi current mode buy applying 220 ohms vishay 0.1% metal film resistors directly across pins 1-4 on each chip. this value isnt hard and fast, I have used anywhere between 100-250R here depending on the circuit.






 I wont be able to answer questions oin this for a day or 2, but i'm sure one of the other guys can help out if there are questions, this was designed to answer some Q's, not cause more. there are others here that have done the BG mod and their own version of 'uberOPamplification' other chips can be used to taste, but this combo is as good as I have heard the D10 sound and about as much as the power supply can handle. battery life is reduced a bit because of the buffers set to high current mode, but not too much.

 hope that helps_

 

Excellent tutorial there for those who are interested. Bet the D10 is singing in the Lisa 3 league now


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Happy New year everyone, 2009 have been a year busy swapping OP-AMP. 
 and to continue my training in the area of head-fi I will begin 2010 swapping Capacitors. 

 I have all read the how different capacitors sound in different setup, but I will never really know unless I listen to them, The experience was really an ear opener when I tried it years also with all the Plastic, paper and different magical capacitors. I never believe in electrolytic (results from reading to much), and have always avoided them with DC servo to remove the DC offset. 

 Swapping Capacitors could be tricky, Lead inductance will be an issue, At audio frequency a capacitors would act like an inductor, I would prefer to solder each cap direct onto the board, but heat will means that I have to run the cap for a while to let to reform, In the end I choose to socket my D10 for this purpose. The leads of the cap are kept to the minimum and temperature and condition of all caps are keep as constant as possible to reduce the forming effects of the electrolytic. 

 All cap are chosen to be 10mm*12.5mm, as this is the largest size that will fit into the D10. Voltage of capacitors has to be 6.3 or above and the maximum capacitance from the series. This is the restriction that amp designer face and we as end user will have to content with. Op-amp would be 2211 on the LR and Single BUF634 HiC for buffers 









 The line up of capacitors are as follows. 

 From ELNA we have 
 1) Cerefine 16V 100uF
 2) Silmic 16V 100uF
 3) Silmic 2 6.3V 220uf 
 4) ROV Solid electrolytic audio cap 16V 470uF

 From Nichicon corner, presenting
 1) Fine Gold FG 6.3V 470uf
 2) ES BP 16V 100uf Bi-polar 

 From Sanyo challengers are 
 1) WX 6.3v 1000uf
 2) OSCON SP series 16v 470uF

 Legends from Panasonic (they are often compared to Black gates 10 years ago)
 1) FC 330uf

 Representing Nippon Chemicon 
 1) ASF 16V 470uf (This is the cap that comes with the D10)

 A highly recommended capacitors from our Japanese friends 
 1) Toshin UTSJ 16V 470uF 


 Not missing from the list with be the now extinct BlackGates NX Bi Polar. 
 I cannot get the exact size of 10mm*12.5 But would be included in the listening test as a reference. 

 The list of capacitors would not be restricted to the above, will look for more (Time and wallet permitting). 

 Currently the caps are going forming/burn in process on a rotation basis, I plan to have at least 100hours burn in for each cap. 

 Initial observation (hear-servation). 
 Capacitors rolling change the texture of the sound especially the timbre the harshness the body and sweetness of the vocal and instrument. 

 OP-AMP however changes the whole spectrum, the noise level, the amount of distortion, the overall presentation and most importantly the resolution of the sound. The layering. 

 For current D10 owner who have heard the D4, the differences in sound comes mainly from the Toshin UTSJ. By placing this Cap on the D10 it is very hard to differentiate the 2 different amplifiers. That is if they are using the same OP-AMPs. So if you like the sound of the D4 you could roll capacitor to make your D10 sound like it, more warm and texture. 

 Let my training begin._

 






 are we having soem caps rolling competition after the opamp craze dies out?


----------



## Pepito

I'm looking on the PCX website, I can see the BG's 470uf and 220uf NHX, but I can't seem to find .1uf and 22uf.


----------



## jamato8

If they don't show it they no longer have them.


----------



## qusp

PCX nolonger have them, you might be able to get them at percy audio, search the threads here for recommendations. I have some left but i'm afraid i'm not letting go of them


----------



## madwolf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 are we having soem caps rolling competition after the opamp craze dies out?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I know I am addicted to this, and part of this addiction is to need to mod and the need to hear the difference and maybe have the best sounding. Try what ever to see if it works. 

 The addiction is so bad I kept thinking about different way of making it sound better. Almost day and night.

 Years ago, I have people knocking at my door at 3am telling me that Rebbecca's (Spanish Harlem ) voice has to much sibilance, He cannot sleep and need to "cure" his system I can see he is almost crying. On another occasions my neighbor threaten to call the police because we are using the Power drill and Power Saw at 2am to do some speaker bracing. This morning at 3:41am I receive an SMS asking me how I mount the BUF634 on a DIP. (Don't worry will post it up to poison you as well)

 I have to admit I am very poisonous and I will poison you by posting more result of capacitors that I have heard or experiment with. The poison will slowly eat into you and compel you to mod further. And after Capacitors for audio bypass we could move to the capacitors for power rail, not to forget the resistors in the feedback loop. The list will be endless. 

 Run if you are new to this, cause once you tried, there is no escaping. otherwise let enjoy our addiction together. 

 In Singapore currently there is a NGC (National Gambling Center) for people with gambling addiction (Casino going to be open soon), Wounder if they will have one for Head-Fi. But even if they would, they would have to kill me to make me sign up for anti addiction. 








 Are you addicted as well ???


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know I am addicted to this, and part of this addiction is to need to mod and the need to hear the difference and maybe have the best sounding. Try what ever to see if it works. 

 The addiction is so bad I kept thinking about different way of making it sound better. Almost day and night.

 Years ago, I have people knocking at my door at 3am telling me that Rebbecca's (Spanish Harlem ) voice has to much sibilance, He cannot sleep and need to "cure" his system I can see he is almost crying. On another occasions my neighbor threaten to call the police because we are using the Power drill and Power Saw at 2am to do some speaker bracing. This morning at 3:41am I receive an SMS asking me how I mount the BUF634 on a DIP. (Don't worry will post it up to poison you as well)

 I have to admit I am very poisonous and I will poison you by posting more result of capacitors that I have heard or experiment with. The poison will slowly eat into you and compel you to mod further. And after Capacitors for audio bypass we could move to the capacitors for power rail, not to forget the resistors in the feedback loop. The list will be endless. 

 Run if you are new to this, cause once you tried, there is no escaping. otherwise let enjoy our addiction together. 

 In Singapore currently there is a NGC (National Gambling Center) for people with gambling addiction (Casino going to be open soon), Wounder if they will have one for Head-Fi. But even if they would, they would have to kill me to make me sign up for anti addiction. 








 Are you addicted as well ???_

 






 I'm immune for the time being as I have no headphone and iem at the moment. It about a month since i last touch my h140/d10 setup. My D10 is finalise and now if there is any modding, I will be modding on fi.Quest


----------



## qusp

i'm assuming you have simply drawn traces and basically 'copied' the A input for the B input on the adapter for single BUF634 yes? certainly looks like that and I cant think of a reason it wouldnt work as that is what we are doing albeit with another chip if 4 BUF634 are used.

 @ Theory_87

 yes these pics above were a mod for a fellow head-fier, mine is finished with too and I have even changed the feedback resistors to TX2575
 but i'm in the same boat as you, my appetite is for modding FiQuest now, I have taken the D10 about as far as she can go, she sounds brilliant, but cannot quite compare with the combination of iRiver->D10->FiQuest. this combo is simply sublime and will continue to get batter as I take it to new heights. I am still glad I have my D10 in this state though in case I must go down the shops in a hurry with only my shorts and/or need longer battery for a long trip. in this case I do not miss too much, but I do miss something huge and authoritative power


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm assuming you have simply drawn traces and basically 'copied' the A input for the B input on the adapter for single BUF634 yes? certainly looks like that and I cant think of a reason it wouldnt work as that is what we are doing albeit with another chip if 4 BUF634 are used.

 @ Theory_87

 yes these pics above were a mod for a fellow head-fier, mine is finished with too and I have even changed the feedback resistors to TX2575
 but i'm in the same boat as you, my appetite is for modding FiQuest now, I have taken the D10 about as far as she can go, she sounds brilliant, but cannot quite compare with the combination of iRiver->D10->FiQuest. this combo is simply sublime and will continue to get batter as I take it to new heights. I am still glad I have my D10 in this state though in case I must go down the shops in a hurry with only my shorts and/or need longer battery for a long trip. in this case I do not miss too much, but I do miss something huge and authoritative power_

 

I can see in 6 months time, we may be playing with portable balance setup


----------



## madwolf

*How to use Single BUF634 for D10* 






 D10 uses double op-amp for it buffer and BUF634 is a Single OP-AMP. 
 Pin assignment on the D10 
 1) Output A 8) Vcc
 2) Input A- 7) Output B
 3) Input A+ 6) Input B-
 4) Ground 5) Input B+

 Pin Assignment of BUF634
1)BW 8) NC
 2)NC 7) Vcc
 3)INPUTZ 6) OUTPUTZ
 4)Ground 5) NC

 Just from the PIN assignment it would not be easily possible to use one BUF634 to the D10 by just using the A part or just the B part. 

 On the D10 (and also on the D4) The 2 buffers are already stacked in unity gain. Meaning (Output A is connected to output B) and (Input A+ is connected to Input B+ ) There are some stacking resistor but let ignore it for the time being. Because of this assignment I could use the Input A + to INPUTZ and Output B to OUTPUTZ 

 Before soldering I cut of PIN 2,5 and 8 on the BUF634 since this 3 have no connection. and Bent pin 1 to the top of the chip. And the Chip is solder in this configuration to the Turn Pin adapter. 

 1) Output A 7) Vcc-->8) Vcc
 2) Input A- 6) OUTPUTZ-->7) Output B
 3) Input A+<--3)INPUTZ 6) Input B-
 4) Ground<--4)Ground 5) Input B+

 With this it would be sufficient to make the BUF634 work on the D10. 

 I added a Yellow wire connecting output B and output A, This is like a double bypass. And the Blue wire is the HI-C connecting Ground to BW, You could experiment with a resistor from 0 ohm to 4K ohm. Most people in this forum liked 2K. I prefer 0 ohm. I added a 0.1u capacitor between Ground and Vcc this is optional as well, this is hidden from view underneath the buf634. 

 Warning: The above HACK only work with D10 and D4, And it only work for the Buffers position and not the LR. The BUF634 once modified will only work in this position connecting it in any out amp or position will result in a short circuit. Experiment at your own risk.

 There is less challenging method, get a browndog adapter . You have the option of using single or double BUF634.


----------



## madwolf

I finish modding my D10 as well some time back, I guess we all stop after completing OP_AMP rolling. I am using it more as a experimental test bed now. I just completed a hyper modded D4 for a friend. added a 5V to 12V DC converter using AD797 and BUF634 as well, waiting for AD8610BRZ before finalizing. It is much better than my D10, smaller in size, and so far can drive any headphone I throw at it. 

 For the resistor mod I am thinking along the line of reducing resistor noise since we are using OPA211 which have a noise floor of 1.1nV/Hz, The 2K resistors noise is already a few times that. I am thinking of reducing it to maybe 600ohm to see if it made a difference. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm assuming you have simply drawn traces and basically 'copied' the A input for the B input on the adapter for single BUF634 yes? certainly looks like that and I cant think of a reason it wouldnt work as that is what we are doing albeit with another chip if 4 BUF634 are used.

 @ Theory_87

 yes these pics above were a mod for a fellow head-fier, mine is finished with too and I have even changed the feedback resistors to TX2575
 but i'm in the same boat as you, my appetite is for modding FiQuest now, I have taken the D10 about as far as she can go, she sounds brilliant, but cannot quite compare with the combination of iRiver->D10->FiQuest. this combo is simply sublime and will continue to get batter as I take it to new heights. I am still glad I have my D10 in this state though in case I must go down the shops in a hurry with only my shorts and/or need longer battery for a long trip. in this case I do not miss too much, but I do miss something huge and authoritative power_


----------



## Pepito

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PCX nolonger have them, you might be able to get them at percy audio, search the threads here for recommendations. I have some left but i'm afraid i'm not letting go of them_

 

Darn, are there any canadian sellers for bg's? or are there any other recommendations for bypass caps?


----------



## qusp

you might try reading the last couple of pages; I have already covered that i'm not 100% sure BG are the best for bypass caps anyway


----------



## Pepito

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you might try reading the last couple of pages; I have already covered that i'm not 100% sure BG are the best for bypass caps anyway_

 

ok, thanks qusp


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Madwolf hah! More like mad scientist...


----------



## eucariote

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pepito* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Darn, are there any canadian sellers for bg's?_

 

Parts Connexion, Burlington, Ontario

 I got BGs for my D10 there, and they have more in stock.


----------



## Pepito

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eucariote* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Parts Connexion, Burlington, Ontario

 I got BGs for my D10 there, and they have more in stock._

 

PCX has 440's and 220's but I'm looking for .1 uf and 22 uf BG's.


----------



## foudordi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well I'm interested if OPA2111 can be beat. IMO its better than any other I have tried in the D10. with AD8656 buffers. the bass control is AWESOME and soundstage is amazing._

 

I've installed the OPA2111 in my D10 with AD8656 buffers too.
 Sounds very good, except for a slight background hissing that's really annoying. 
 Anyone has the same issue? All my other opamps produce a very clean sound... Are there faulty OPA2111KPs?


----------



## qusp

I recommend catching up on more recent recommendations for sensitive IEMs, we know much more about this dacx/amp now. I cant remember if I even still have the OPA2111 will have to have a look


----------



## goebish

Hi, I just received my D10 and quickly (at work) tried it with Klipsch Custom 3 IEMs via USB and whoaaa !
 I'm far from being an audiophile, but my tracks are far more enjoyable with this setup than with my iTouch+FiiO E5 or E1
 I like this DAC so much that I just ordered an iRiver iHP140 from Ebay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Is replacing its 40GB HDD with a compact flash or SDHC very difficult ?
 I mean if I open it, will I be able to reassemble it easily ?


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *goebish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like this DAC so much that I just ordered an iRiver iHP140 from Ebay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Is replacing its 40GB HDD with a compact flash or SDHC very difficult ?
 I mean if I open it, will I be able to reassemble it easily ?_

 

It's not difficult at all, however you should start reading up on rockbox as you'll need that to install a solid state card.


----------



## goebish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you should start reading up on rockbox as you'll need that to install a solid state card._

 

No problem, in fact very few of my electronic gadgets runs on their original firmware


----------



## jamato8

There is good information over on Mysticriver:

iriver H1xx Series (H110, H115. H120, H140) - MisticRiver :: For iriver Enthusiasts

 I have 80gb in my H120 and 120gb in my H140's.


----------



## goebish

Thank you guys !


----------



## mbllbm

hello
 I asked what is the best combination for the opamp Ultrasone Edition 9?
 I thought about ADA4841 2 xAD8656. ADA4841 can better turn to another only on what is best?
 sorry for my english

 cheers


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *goebish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I just received my D10 and quickly (at work) tried it with Klipsch Custom 3 IEMs via USB and whoaaa !
 I'm far from being an audiophile, but my tracks are far more enjoyable with this setup than with my iTouch+FiiO E5 or E1
 I like this DAC so much that I just ordered an iRiver iHP140 from Ebay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Is replacing its 40GB HDD with a compact flash or SDHC very difficult ?
 I mean if I open it, will I be able to reassemble it easily ?_

 

Not difficult at all. First, download the Rockbox installer and the bootloader. With the hdd installed, install the bootloader and Rockbox. After that install, the bootloader and Rockbox to the CF or SDHC through the card reader. Then transfer all your music libraries to the CF or SDHC. Then install the CF or SDHC hardware to your iRiver, turn it on, then you're good to go. I never pushed the bootloader over the iRiver's bootloader. That way I can still boot up in iRiver if I wanted to. I did this on 3 iHP-120 without any problem.

 (edit: I know that this is OT.)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbllbm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hello
 I asked what is the best combination for the opamp Ultrasone Edition 9?
 I thought about ADA4841 2 xAD8656. ADA4841 can better turn to another only on what is best?
 sorry for my english

 cheers_

 

Try the AD8599 with stock buffers or AD8616 buffers (less edgy than AD8656 buffers)


----------



## norfolkNchance

I am looking for some help. I need to find someone who can mod my D10 (which I am about to buy) with BG caps.

 Going to use with my imod and Jh-13s. I am still to research what topkits to use.

 Can someone please help me find someone who would be willing to do this service for me?

 Thanks in advance


----------



## norfolkNchance

I am looking for some help. I need to find someone who can mod my D10 (which I am about to buy) with BG caps. Or can an electrician good with soldering be able to do it for me??

 I understand these bad boys need to be burnt in for 1000 hours?! So if possible someone with "burnt in" BG caps? 
 Although I doubt one would be likely to give up something which has had so much effort/time spent on it lol.

 Going to use with my imod and Jh-13s. I am still to research what topkits to use.

 Can someone please help me find someone who would be willing to do this service for me? Or to not recommend the above and instead recommend a topkit?

 Thanks in advance


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *norfolkNchance* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am looking for some help. I need to find someone who can mod my D10 (which I am about to buy) with BG caps. Or can an electrician good with soldering be able to do it for me??

 I understand these bad boys need to be burnt in for 1000 hours?! So if possible someone with "burnt in" BG caps? 
 Although I doubt one would be likely to give up something which has had so much effort/time spent on it lol.

 Going to use with my imod and Jh-13s. I am still to research what topkits to use.

 Can someone please help me find someone who would be willing to do this service for me? Or to not recommend the above and instead recommend a topkit?

 Thanks in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

On the BG modification I am not sure who will do it but the caps will need to be formed in the amp as you use it. For the TopKit I would email HiFlight, who has post many times in this thread.


----------



## Sceptre

If you are in Norfolk, I'm about 60 miles from you. I am 'loading' my fresh BG caps this weekend. PM me and I'll share some pics of the process.

 I do sense that a barrier to entry to this club is the guts to do it yourself though.

 My experience stems from building my first CB radio from scratch when I was 13, getting my Ham licence at 14 and smelling of flux for the next few years!

 Fingers crossed.

 Top kit change is a piece of cake - just remember the spring on the bottom of the PCB and LED alignment when putting it back together.

 Sceptre


----------



## qusp

hes a few more miles away than that, hes in new zealand

 lol, not much chance hes in norfolk hey?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, there is only one person (hiFlight) and version of the D10 topkit (well there were a few, but only one currently)


----------



## jamato8

I was 16 when I built a tube ham radio. Great experience.


----------



## vkvedam

As per qusp I am not qualified enough to go for BG mod because of my lack of experience with reading PCBs though I've got good soldering skills. So any help from yourself John (Sceptre) would be quite helpful in learning. Hey qusp, I am not blaming you, it's good for myself that you made me aware few posts ago.


----------



## qusp

hmm, well mate, I dont know, if you are just going to replace whats there and since the BG are non-polar anyway I dont think you will really have too much problem, but just know what you are getting yourself into. if you have doubts then perhaps its best, as with this type of thing confidence is at least half the battle. for all the other mods then there are other issues, but replacing caps is a matter of noting polarity and in this case careful planning for space.


----------



## vkvedam

No probs qusp, I'll get the basics right before I take the plunge. Thanks for the heads up information.


----------



## qusp

no problem, yeah get your eye in again and then give it a shot. with BG you dont even really need to pay too much attention to polarity as long as you use the non-polar types (N and NX series). that being said its best to put them in the right way, but if you dont you arent going to fry anything


----------



## norfolkNchance

cool cheers for the help everyone. Maybe I will just keep my p51 instead of selling it for this purpose. I'm purchasing a portable vcap from kabeer so I should be well sorted


----------



## qusp

sure mate, but put it this way, I have a piccolino wired VCAP (with teflon VCAP bypass) and a duelund copper foil dock (bypassed with mundorf silver in oil), both combinations are IMO quite easily superior to my regular OIMP VCAP dock and I find myself using the iriver->D10-> sometimes to lisa III or ibasso FiQuest for amp at least 80% of the time, probably closer to 90%

 it will still sound very good though, but no matter what you put after the IMOD, you are still stuck with the ipod dac and the WM874X series from wolfston (in the D10) is their flagship dac, much higher quality than the wolfston in the ipod 5.5G. if you are going for ultimate sound, the D10 is the superior choice IMO, even without the mods just with good opamps it beats out my DIYMOD combos, even the duelund/mundorf which is about 700USD in parts alone


----------



## jamato8

I hope you have other uses for those 700 dollars parts then. :^)

 One great thing about DIY, we can always use the parts somewhere else. Or, just buy more. lol I buy too many more. I do reuse BG's though. I probably have 800 or 900 dollars in BG's in NOS just so I will have them. I may be low on the dollar figure. Sick I tell you, sick.


----------



## lwells

I have had my D10 for about a day now. ( I used it all day long hehe ) I really am enjoying it, but wish it had more power. I guess I listen to my music pretty loud. 

 btw, I'm driving puny IEM currently so it's not an impedance issue.


----------



## LionPlushie

John, Mamba D4 or D10 sounds better to your ears? Or which is more worthy?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lwells* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have had my D10 for about a day now. ( I used it all day long hehe ) I really am enjoying it, but wish it had more power. I guess I listen to my music pretty loud. 

 btw, I'm driving puny IEM currently so it's not an impedance issue._

 

Wow, all your phones in your sig are easy to drive - you are gonna go deaf.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope you have other uses for those 700 dollars parts then. :^)

 One great thing about DIY, we can always use the parts somewhere else. Or, just buy more. lol I buy too many more. I do reuse BG's though. I probably have 800 or 900 dollars in BG's in NOS just so I will have them. I may be low on the dollar figure. Sick I tell you, sick._

 

indeed I do, I do love the sound, dont get me wrong and I do enjoy it when I feel like a change, the soundstage is possibly a little wider and more organic, with a different kind of slam in the bass, but the resolution and imaging is superior on the D10, I wish I could mix the 2, but its not doable.

 regarding reusing the parts, absolutely I do, but I need to buy another 2 of each for use in a balanced B1 buffer or the output stage of a COD PCM1794A dac. I could just make it single ended and use what I have. and the Bocchino tomcat RCA's will go to a good home. this dock was truly an exercise in opulence.

 and yes i'm sick as well, we really need a DIYA where we all get together and talk about our affliction


----------



## madwolf

Then we could discuss TPA6210, Black gates, Silmic, bypass, till the sky comes down. maybe Kt88 and EL34 as well 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 and yes i'm sick as well, we really need a DIYA where we all get together and talk about our affliction_


----------



## Nachkebia

Anyone can help me out, I have my D10 connected via optical on my PC, using foobar and ASIO can not seem to play 24/96 files..


----------



## lwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nachkebia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone can help me out, I have my D10 connected via optical on my PC, using foobar and ASIO can not seem to play 24/96 files.._

 

Same here, I did not think the internal DAC could handle 192?


----------



## vkvedam

Nah! My D10 works perfectly out of my MBP optical at 24/96. I am not entirely sure about the foobar2000. It can handle 24/96 files perfectly.


----------



## Nachkebia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lwells* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here, I did not think the internal DAC could handle 192?_

 

I don`t know, which output you are using with foobar? I am using ASIO and I am getting this error "Unrecoverable playback error: The ASIO device does not support specified sample rate (96000Hz); please configure resampler appropriately"


----------



## lwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nachkebia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don`t know, which output you are using with foobar? I am using ASIO and I am getting this error "Unrecoverable playback error: The ASIO device does not support specified sample rate (96000Hz); please configure resampler appropriately"_

 


 I'm not using foobar. I'm configuring the spdif via windows.


----------



## Nachkebia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lwells* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not using foobar. I'm configuring the spdif via windows._

 

And which player you are using? because if I use direct sound as an output method in foobar everything works...


----------



## lwells

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nachkebia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And which player you are using? because if I use direct sound as an output method in foobar everything works..._

 

Using Winamp.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The D10 does support 24/96 on the Mac, while the older D1 was limited to 24/48.


----------



## Smirk

So basically D10 is the best amp/dac combo below 300$?


----------



## LeeSC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Smirk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So basically D10 is the best amp/dac combo below 300$?_

 

That is if don't start rolling the opamp and buffers.


----------



## wolfen68

....and if you need optical (not much competition).


----------



## Smirk

Can someone explain what will be the benefits of the balanced IBasso DAC & Amp which is being developed and is it true that D10 is going to be updated soon?


----------



## tim3320070

Sorry if this has been covered but my head is spinning with all the opamp numbers (I am new to portables).
 I have RE0's and want the combo from the stock  opamps that give the RE0's a chance at sounding fuller (more bass, warmer, etc.).
 Which stock combo does this best? When answering, assume I know nothing about opamps other than how to put them in.
 Thanks

 Edit: Current setup is 8656 with dummy buffers


----------



## TopQuark

I just completed modifying my D10 to Black Gates under Super E configuration. The initial listening experience sucks. Well, I only have about 8 hrs now. There is that airyness around each note and pleasing punch on the bass but, overall, it sounds like a tin can. I have the TopKit installed. When I had the caps that came with D10, it sounds wonderful.

 It looks like a long shot to make the Black Gates change their sound signature. Will they really change that much after 500-1,000 hrs?


----------



## toads

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TopQuark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Will they really change that much after 500-1,000 hrs?_

 

oh jesus, mary and joseph YES...!!!


----------



## immtbiker

What about, Schmeke?


----------



## TopQuark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *toads* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh jesus, mary and joseph YES...!!!_

 

Ok, made me feel better.

 I noticed that turning off the gain setting in the D10, iZotope, and QO Labs Studio Sound Effects improved it a lot. The sound signature is now totally different from what it was. Perhaps I don't need the software tweaking anymore. That will be great.


----------



## LevA

Can someone tell me what kind of USB cable we need with the D10? lost my cable while traveling and now trying to figure out if it makes a difference between usb and usb 2.0 cable. 
 I have a usb 2.0 cable, would that work? also would it be OK to use it with the charger that comes with the D10? 
 I know it's a pretty lame question to ask but really have no idea, so thanks in advance.
 also, any recommendations for a good, decent usb cable for sound quality? thats not going to cost a fortune..


----------



## goebish

Any USB mini-B cable should work.


----------



## LevA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *goebish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any USB mini-B cable should work._

 

thanks goebish!


----------



## Anouk

HEllo,
 I just got my new d10 with topkit and I must say that I prefer it over the d4, that is with my sennheiser ie8 which is the only thing I intend to use it with.
 I must say htough its a nightmare to uncover the optical plug. How are you supposed to get the plug out. For the life of me I cant remember how I did this last time I had the d10.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HEllo,
 I just got my new d10 with topkit and I must say that I prefer it over the d4, that is with my sennheiser ie8 which is the only thing I intend to use it with.
 I must say htough its a nightmare to uncover the optical plug. How are you supposed to get the plug out. For the life of me I cant remember how I did this last time I had the d10.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

What do you mean by uncovering the optical plug? Just insert and pull out. I didn't understand, I am sorry.


----------



## Anouk

Hi, sorry for the confusion. I thought the connector on the far right of the back was the optical (it has been too long since i owned this amp) but I guess the middle one is optical, right? Its just when i try to insert an optical cable there it wont stay put.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## goebish

Quote:


 Its just when i try to insert an optical cable there it wont stay put. 
 

Are you trying to plug a TOSLINK optical plug or a mini optical (3.5mm) ?
 The D10 requires TOSLINK plug for optical.


----------



## vkvedam

^x2, even I feel the same way. It takes the toslink optical and not the mini. Use the cable you got with your D10. Hope this helps.


----------



## tim3320070

I have had the D10 for about 3 weeks now. I bought this as an interim headamp until my income stabilized (had to sell my Phoenix). Having come from the Ref-1 DAC/ Phoenix combo (balanced) to the D10 alone, I have to say that it is not such a leap downward as you would expect. Sure the sound is "smaller" with bit of grain in the mids and highs, less air, less articulate bass, etc. as compared but not too far off. It has improved my TV watching (running optical from my Dish receiver, as wife snores away) and has blown away the sound card in my laptop and made a viable travel sound system. Running the 8656 with bypassed buffers (the 6643 in buffers seems grainier).
 Totally impressed.


----------



## madwolf

My D10 Capacitor Rolling experience have been crazy! 

 In the First week, All the different listening session left me in confusion. The sound of the Capacitor before burn in could be different within the same song. One moment it is good and another all bad. Once instance clear and bring another instance muddy and warm. At 24 hours brun in for the cap it is still changing but at 48 hours things seem to settle in a bit, but changes are still happening.

 Initial impression after 48 hours of burn in for capacitors

 ELNA Silmic 2 -- This is the highest rated cap after Black gates. The sound is fast and neutral. A top contender for the D10

 ELNA Silmic -- This is a very good all rounder, but the difference is very small compared to the newer 2, Simlic is warmer than silmic 2 but the overall air of confidence is missing compared to 2 and fro instrument silmic 2 is clearly better. 

 ELNA Cerafine -- I have the most trouble auditing this Change change change in the first 24 hours. Cerafine have great potential get resolution and warmth at the same time but some grain in the sound. It is getting less grainy as it is burn in at 48 hours it has not settle yet. so let see later. 

 NichIcon KZ -- Best for string instrument, the texture and air around guitar string never sounded so real on the D10 you could tell if the string are metal or nylon, Vocal is as good as the Silmic 2 and maybe a tat warmer. 
 Unfortunally KZ series only comes in 25V and above and the only one that can fit is a 47uF 25V. Because of the small capacitance size the deep bass is missing from the sound. The leads of KZ are notably thicker than other capacitors 

 Nichicon FineGold -- It is a good all rounder but not in the league of cerifine, Silmic or KZ. Neutral and extended. 

 Nichicon ES Bipolar -- The king of vocal, Super warm and super sweet. After 48 hours it less warm and less sweet, but still much more than the rest. Th best if you ONLY listen to acapalla and or vocal. It is so good that I forgot I am audition cap and just enjoyed the song. Instrument and bass however need to be improved. 

 Toshin UTSJ -- Warm sounding, as QUSP noted the high are not as clear as the best but for vocal it is sweet and warm. bass is deep and strong as well. Even with a WIMA bypass the high did not open up enough. 

 Sanyo WG -- Good for sub sonic monster otherwise not an audio capacitor. 

 Sanyo OSCON SP -- Thin on vocal, bright and clear at the high end. Extended bass. Sounds disappointing. 

 Panasonic FC -- It has an all rounded sound , but does not excel in any area. Vocal is there but a tat cold. High is there but not extended or sharp. 

 Nippon chemicon ASF -- Vocal is tat warm and high bright and clear, bass is there but not extended.


----------



## TopQuark

So the Elna Silmic 2 is what you prefer in this group?

 I hope you can compare it against the Black Gates. Some prefer the warmpt of the Silmics.


----------



## rhw

Thanks for the description of the sound character of the different caps in the D10.
 I will stay with my BGs D10. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Just listened to the Pop Pulse PCM1796 DAC over the D10 amp section and compared to the internal DAC. It is not bad. The D10 DAC sounds smoother, piano tones are a bit rounded, soundspace is a bit more compact. In contrast the (unmodified) Pop Pulse is cleaner and more open.


----------



## madwolf

The Black gate are on the way to my door. It is to huge to miss 

 However, It will just be for comparison I would need another 3 week to get every cap to 100 hours, Then I will start burning in the black gates 
 At 1000hours ~ 40days that would be at least 2 months from now. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TopQuark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the Elna Silmic 2 is what you prefer in this group?

 I hope you can compare it against the Black Gates. Some prefer the warmpt of the Silmics._


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Black gate are on the way to my door. It is to huge to miss 

 However, It will just be for comparison I would need another 3 week to get every cap to 100 hours, Then I will start burning in the black gates 
 At 1000hours ~ 40days that would be at least 2 months from now._

 

burn in on your hifi system... faster


----------



## freeride1685

i am wondering if there are still BG caps available for the D10....i ask this knowing that they are not prepared as a kit or anything, but i remember awhile back that stock was getting low on the caps and people were having trouble finding them.

 i honestly dont know the values or a seller to get these from so if anyone could point me in the right direction that would be awesome.

 even more importantly, if anyone is willing to retrofit my D10 with some BGs i would be forever grateful, and have money to pay as well! shoot me a pm please.


----------



## freeride1685

double post.


----------



## freeride1685

triple post! not a good computer day.


----------



## Form

Hello there!

 New iBasso D10 user here! I'm using it with my new Westone 3's which I happened to receive the same day as the D10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 nice coincidence.

*First impressions: *

 The amp sounds great, looks and feels great too.

*Second impressions:

*When listening to smooth music or when the sound source is paused and using analog in there is a sound glitch of about 0.5 seconds at a few seconds' interval (irregular intervals between the glitches, from 5 seconds to about 10-15+ seconds) in the left channel. The glitch is very audible with smooth music playback and if I had to describe it it sounds like a small and very short sound clip stretched over half a second, with missing samples in the sound spectrum. The sound glitch is audible even if I switch sources so the problem must be with the D10. It does not do that when I use the DAC through USB.

 Pretty weird… I contacted iBasso support regarding this today, I haven't received anything yet (which is still OK). What do you guys think? Is this a common issue with D10's? Are people having other issues with it? What about the iBasso support & replacement policies (shipping, etc…), for those who have dealt with them? There isn't much info on their website apart from the product pages themselves.


----------



## vkvedam

Double Post!


----------



## vkvedam

No, that's not normal. There should be some problem with your interconnect or the contact point at the source. Try and use a different interconnect and check the line out function of D10 as well.


----------



## Form

I've tried another interconnect already; I used the small ⅛" to ⅛" cable that comes with the iBasso with my MacBook Pro as well as my iBasso interconnect with my iPod.

 I just found out the glitch also occurs when nothing is plugged in the line in on the D10. So to recap I only have my W3's plugged in and the glitch is still there…


----------



## goebish

Is there a wifi router or some device that can produce EMI near the D10 ?


----------



## Form

Nope, tried it at home, at my gf's house and now I'm at school and it still does that. Of course there are some routers in all these places… but I tried it in the bus too and the glitch remains. Honestly if the wireless routers were the problem I'd be in big trouble


----------



## Pepito

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My D10 Capacitor Rolling experience have been crazy! 

 In the First week, All the different listening session left me in confusion. The sound of the Capacitor before burn in could be different within the same song. One moment it is good and another all bad. Once instance clear and bring another instance muddy and warm. At 24 hours brun in for the cap it is still changing but at 48 hours things seem to settle in a bit, but changes are still happening.

 Initial impression after 48 hours of burn in for capacitors

 ELNA Silmic 2 -- This is the highest rated cap after Black gates. The sound is fast and neutral. A top contender for the D10

 ELNA Silmic -- This is a very good all rounder, but the difference is very small compared to the newer 2, Simlic is warmer than silmic 2 but the overall air of confidence is missing compared to 2 and fro instrument silmic 2 is clearly better. 

 ELNA Cerafine -- I have the most trouble auditing this Change change change in the first 24 hours. Cerafine have great potential get resolution and warmth at the same time but some grain in the sound. It is getting less grainy as it is burn in at 48 hours it has not settle yet. so let see later. 

 NichIcon KZ -- Best for string instrument, the texture and air around guitar string never sounded so real on the D10 you could tell if the string are metal or nylon, Vocal is as good as the Silmic 2 and maybe a tat warmer. 
 Unfortunally KZ series only comes in 25V and above and the only one that can fit is a 47uF 25V. Because of the small capacitance size the deep bass is missing from the sound. The leads of KZ are notably thicker than other capacitors 

 Nichicon FineGold -- It is a good all rounder but not in the league of cerifine, Silmic or KZ. Neutral and extended. 

 Nichicon ES Bipolar -- The king of vocal, Super warm and super sweet. After 48 hours it less warm and less sweet, but still much more than the rest. Th best if you ONLY listen to acapalla and or vocal. It is so good that I forgot I am audition cap and just enjoyed the song. Instrument and bass however need to be improved. 

 Toshin UTSJ -- Warm sounding, as QUSP noted the high are not as clear as the best but for vocal it is sweet and warm. bass is deep and strong as well. Even with a WIMA bypass the high did not open up enough. 

 Sanyo WG -- Good for sub sonic monster otherwise not an audio capacitor. 

 Sanyo OSCON SP -- Thin on vocal, bright and clear at the high end. Extended bass. Sounds disappointing. 

 Panasonic FC -- It has an all rounded sound , but does not excel in any area. Vocal is there but a tat cold. High is there but not extended or sharp. 

 Nippon chemicon ASF -- Vocal is tat warm and high bright and clear, bass is there but not extended._

 

Madwolf, can you post the part numbers for the ELNA Silmic 2 caps that you used? Thanks!


----------



## qusp

yes, the silmic II are great caps, I have actually just used some in a dac i'm building, but I bypassed them with 100nf mundorf MKP, I think this will sound pretty great. 

 I have just swapped out the 10000uf UTSJ in my FiQuest power reservoir for Nichicon FW and the sound has improved already. 

 the BG we use is 220uf, with the original HP out caps being 470, you should be able to find a 220uf that will fit, just look for a lower voltage version, we only deal with `5v here so if you can find any 10v they will be fine. most silmic II are pretty high voltage rating too though, i'm not sure how low they go


----------



## Form

Ok I contacted iBasso support regarding the issue I stated earlier and they suggested rolling the opamps; I did that using their suggestion (AD8656 with the two dummy buffers) and the glitching is now gone! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's nice that I won't have to ship it back to China.

 What are your opinions regarding the opamps I installed in there?

 While the beast was open I thought why not take some pics for the D10 thread? So here you go:


































 From what I recall of the other photos the insides look a bit different… I think the caps are not the same (were they blue previously?).


----------



## qusp

no the 150-0 uf you have there is the same as I have seen in all I hacve had open, but the green ones you have there I havent seen. cant tell from above what they are. 

 I was actually going to suggest rolling opamps too, the stock ones are very sensitive to RFI. are you seriously asking us to comment on the opamps you have in there without telling us what they are? opamps are hard enough to read the writing when you have them in your hand, let alone on a low resolution pic.


----------



## qusp

no the 150-0 uf you have there is the same as I have seen in all I hacve had open, but the green ones you have there I havent seen. cant tell from above what they are. 

 I was actually going to suggest rolling opamps too, the stock ones are very sensitive to RFI. are you seriously asking us to comment on the opamps you have in there without telling us what they are? opamps are hard enough to read the writing when you have them in your hand, let alone on a low resolution pic.


----------



## Form

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was actually going to suggest rolling opamps too, the stock ones are very sensitive to RFI. are you seriously asking us to comment on the opamps you have in there without telling us what they are? opamps are hard enough to read the writing when you have them in your hand, let alone on a low resolution pic._

 

I listed the new opamps I installed at the beginning of my previous post. Here they are again: AD8656 with the two dummy buffers (with no chip on them). Those came in the opamp rolling kit with the D10 and were what iBasso service recommended I use to fix my problem.

 I'm pretty sure it was not RFI because the glitch happened wherever I was, including when there was no radio emitter nearby (say, in the bus). It always sounded the same too, and was not constant at all (small noise bursts).


----------



## vkvedam

Even if someone uses a mobile on the bus at certain distance it picks up the noise.


----------



## Form

True but this is no background noise; its a very audible and sharp electronic-sounding glitch, followed by complete silence. I cannot imagine any RFI noise being so audible and occasional.

 If the opamps are OK then there is no way nobody else gets this noise… there shouldn't be more radio waves here than where all other D10 owners live.


----------



## vkvedam

Believe me. I had the same problem when I took the stock D10 on the London Underground.


----------



## jamato8

I like the 8656 but like the 8616 even more. They are both good though. Wait till you get more hours on the amp and the caps form. I think you will like the sound even more.


----------



## Form

8616? I don't have that in my kit; stock I had the ADA4841 with AD708 buffers. I thought it sounded damn good…


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Form* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_8616? I don't have that in my kit; stock I had the ADA4841 with AD708 buffers. I thought it sounded damn good…_

 

The ADA4841-2 is a very nice sounding opamp, but unfortunately it is very sensitive to RF interference, as you have found. 

 I very much agree with John that the AD8616 is better sounding than the 8656, especially in the highs. It is also very miserly with battery power, if that is a concern. It also sounds quite good with bypassed (dummy) buffers. It has a good current output so you won't really miss the buffers.


----------



## qusp

my apologies Form, mI dont know what happened there, but I looked at the post twice and didnt see that listed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 yes AD8616 is superior, BUF634 is even better IMO, not a beginners mod that one though


----------



## Form

So in essence if I'm looking for a sound signature similar to the ADA4841-2 (which highs I found were clearer than the AD8656; a good match for my W3's based on the short amount of time I spent listening to those two together) but without the interference, the AD8616 would be a good option?

 All those suggestions you made, what about the buffers? Should I suppose dummy buffers unless specified? Why does the ADA4841-2 uses non-dummy buffers? (In fact does someone have a link to a thread or some good info on the opamp / buffer principle? I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to electronics and honestly I have no idea what the buffers do.)

 Where can I find the AD8616 or similar opamps mounted on those mini boards that plug into the D10's opamp slots? I've heard about fake opamps, I wouldn't want to buy one of those by mistake…


----------



## qusp

all mentioned ARE buffers; buffers are there for a few of reasons, 

 1. to increase current (not voltage)
 2. to take an impedance that is higher than we would like and output with a very low impedance, this gives a wider range of headphones that can be used effectively. the ideal buffer has infinite input impedance and infinite output impedance
 3. this way the buffers are taking the 'weight' so to speak, leaving the opamp unaffected by the load (your headphones)

 as far as texts, sorry I dont know anything off the top of my head, but google is your friend. they can be bought online at places like mouser and digikey safely and cheaply. but not on adapters. some will be available in a DIP8 package that does not need an adapter. you can try browndog.com, but they are a bit pricey. PM member highflight. he has already posted on this page, he'll sort you out


----------



## madwolf

The Silmic2 that I used are 6.3V 220uF 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pepito* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Madwolf, can you post the part numbers for the ELNA Silmic 2 caps that you used? Thanks!_

 

Actually I was thinking of building a rig with a 2.5V DC and some signal generator to generate pink noise to burn in. That is the exact condition. 
 Using the output of the hifi the DC offset is not there and it would not be suitable for non polar capacitors which is being used in the D10. 

 Will start burning in BLACK GATES tonight. Cannot wait till 100 hours is up for each capacitors. 

 There are only a very small handful of places you could buy Black gates, I could still pick and choose today, But looking at the stock level better buy fast. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theory_87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_burn in on your hifi system... faster 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_


----------



## madwolf

Initial impression of fresh Black Gates, 

 Sound is whole meaning sound stage is small, Vocal is full body slightly warm. Instrument is distinct but not as hair raising as Silmic or the KZ. Vocal not as smooth as the Toshin. 
 Lots of sibilance. Bass does not goes to the very low end, but when it hit it is hard and solid.

 But is is one very musical capacitor. Overall the presentation of the music is balance and very enjoyable. 

 Now the long wait for burning in. Some catching up to do so that all my capacitors can tested at the same burn in age.


----------



## clasam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *madwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Initial impression of fresh Black Gates, 

 Sound is whole meaning sound stage is small, Vocal is full body slightly warm. Instrument is distinct but not as hair raising as Silmic or the KZ. Vocal not as smooth as the Toshin. 
 Lots of sibilance. Bass does not goes to the very low end, but when it hit it is hard and solid.

 But is is one very musical capacitor. Overall the presentation of the music is balance and very enjoyable. 

 Now the long wait for burning in. Some catching up to do so that all my capacitors can tested at the same burn in age._

 

Hey Madwolf, would you say that the stock caps are worse than all the ones you rolled in?

 Jon


----------



## clasam

Not that any of us need another Amp, but iBasso said they're gonna start development of a new Dseries amp after Chinese New Year's.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

I've had my d10 for a little over a month now, I'm truly liking the versatility! Sound is pumping to Sony cd-3000's from an imod4g. The dac I use as a secondary source on occasion.

 My opamp setup is completely stock; I'm under the impression it's probably best to keep it like this lol, BG mod is interesting ~ where would we get these?


----------



## jamato8

BG's are getting harder and harder to get. The opamp upgrade is a worthwhile and not too expensive path.


----------



## jelt2359

I just opened mine up to swap opamps and saw that it came with a BG cap, stock.


----------



## Equus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clasam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not that any of us need another Amp, but iBasso said they're gonna start development of a new Dseries amp after Chinese New Year's._

 

Lalalalala...I can't hear you...lalalala!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The opamp upgrade is a worthwhile and not too expensive path._

 

Agreed. And it's also so simple that even I can do it.


----------



## richbass

Hows D4 with best opamps compared to D10 with best opamps ?
 Thanks


----------



## richbass

Hows D4 with best opamps compared to D10 with best opamps ?
 Thanks


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richbass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hows D4 with best opamps compared to D10 with best opamps ?
 Thanks_

 

Both get closer in sound to the RSA P-51 which is my favorite, but the D10 never quite reaches the treble perfection and space/ambience of the P-51 while the D4 does.


----------



## richbass

Can D4/D10 drive DT 880/990 Premium 600Ohm ?
 Thanks


----------



## qusp

^^ NO, not IMO anyway. it will make some noise, but not the best kind


----------



## richbass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^ NO, not IMO anyway. it will make some noise, but not the best kind_

 

ok !!


----------



## itszdenny

I recently purchased some brown dog adapters and some op amps to try on my D10. The adapters are too big to fit next to each other in the sockets. What should/can I do?


----------



## qusp

errrm maybe try making them smaller 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, the circuit traces do not go right to the edge, so you can quite safely make them small enough to fit the D10. dont be too heavy-handed though because there ARE traces there


----------



## itszdenny

I actually see a circuit near the edge. What can I use to "trim the edges?"


----------



## madwolf

My 3rd exotic Op-Amp for iBasso D10 amplifier -- OPA633

 This is the little brother of BUF634 -- at one time it is OPA634 
 It have a higher bandwidth 260Mz compared to max buf634 of 180Mhz
 Faster at 2500v/us compared to Buf634 2000v/us
 But it is not as powerful 100mA output current compared to 250mA
 It draws a higher current than BUF634 as well but not much. 






 The Pin out of OPA633 is unconventional, It is not the same as any other op-amp. And hence we need to bend the pins. By inverting the 4 connected pin it would fit nicely into the D10 without even soldering. Show in the picture are 2 simple modification and 2 with supply caps and double bypass.

 How does it sound (compared to BUF634), It is more detailed, more air around the instrument and vocal but and slightly brighter. Pair better with my UM3X. But for my HD595 I prefer the BUF634.

 There is a however very slight hiss on opa633.


----------



## trentino

I'm planning on getting the D10 for both home and away use (lossless rock music from ipod with lod) and I don't want to get a pair of head phones that are too good for the D10, like the HD650. Would the Grado 325is be a good pair with D10? Or is it better to get a cheaper pair, say the cheaper Grado models?
 All of you guys using the D10 at home, what head phones are you using? 
 Thanks!


----------



## aFo

Just a quick question. I have an ibasso d3, thinking of upgrading to the d10. Would there be any significant improvements in the amp and dac?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *trentino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm planning on getting the D10 for both home and away use (lossless rock music from ipod with lod) and I don't want to get a pair of head phones that are too good for the D10, like the HD650. Would the Grado 325is be a good pair with D10? Or is it better to get a cheaper pair, say the cheaper Grado models?
 All of you guys using the D10 at home, what head phones are you using? 
 Thanks!_

 

IMO, the D10 can scale well with high-end headphones. It would pair well with the 325s, but don't worry about having phones that are "too good" for the D10. It can do justice to even the best, especially with high-quality source via optical input.


----------



## richbass

Which one has a better headphone out ? D4 or D10 ?
 Thanks


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richbass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which one has a better headphone out ? D4 or D10 ?
 Thanks_

 

I would say D4. The D4 sounds like a cross between the Pico and P-51 Mustang, and D10 sounds like a Predator. So both are very good, but the D4 is a little more open and transparent sounding like the P-51 and Pico, and D10 is a little more intimate sounding like a 3MOVE. 

 You can make a D10 sound more like a D4 with the TLE2142 class-A opamps, with EL8201 buffers (from HiFlight). But, you can make the D4 sound more like a P-51 with the OPA1611A class-A biased opamps with stock buffers. At


----------



## estreeter

Larry, if I recall correctly, your initial impression was that the stock D4 was on par with an upgraded (rolled opamps) D10 - that was enough for me to pull the trigger on the D4 and I'm glad I did. Thanks !


----------



## TopQuark

To those who wants another angle of D10 Black Gate mod, here are some pics. I have about 200 hrs on mine and I can tell it is getting a lot better. I stopped using iZotope and other synthetic enhancements to my desktop system. I have the latest Topkit installed. Some few words after 200 hrs - better separation, transparency, open.

 Original D10:









 Original caps taken out:





 Size difference among the caps:









 Black Gates mounted:





 Note location of the 47uf cap next to the battery:





 Another angle:





 Note location of the through-hole slots relative to the caps:





 Another angle:





 Ridge filed out:


----------



## stringgz301

Great post topquark! Thanks for the visual how-to. This is a great resource for D10 owners.


----------



## qusp

those 22uf blackgate bypass caps on the output are in large danger of shorting against the ground rail and other traces if you dont put some tape under them


----------



## hvu

I would suggest you stop posting in any random discussion thread to sell your d10 and iriver h120 because you could be banned.
 There is proper place to sell your items in the for sale thread For Sale / Trade Forums - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio
 I would also suggest you make you own listing rather borrow someone else listing as I have seen you done before.


----------



## woof37

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would also suggest you make you own listing rather borrow someone else listing as I have seen you done before._

 

HUGE red flag. Thanks for mentioning that.


----------



## lozanoa11

Just got mine and just my luck my Zune HD decides to freak out.


----------



## freeride1685

i am still waiting for someone to take a contact enhancer, such as walker audio e-sst or whatever, and put it on the pins of the op-amps/buffers! i reference that stuff because from what i read it is pretty darn effective. people had mentioned the hiss from tubes disappearing almost completely, leading me to believe that maybe with the proper application some of the more hissy op-amps can be used with no problems.

 similarly, i would love to put it on the iem-side pins of the detachable cables on most high end iems. it would not be so easy to stick it on a 1/8" and probably not a good idea, for risk of crossing channels, but perhaps it could work on the connector for RSA's new protector. i love little tweaks that actually work so i think that would be just icing on the cake.


----------



## theory_87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freeride1685* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am still waiting for someone to take a contact enhancer, such as walker audio e-sst or whatever, and put it on the pins of the op-amps/buffers! i reference that stuff because from what i read it is pretty darn effective. people had mentioned the hiss from tubes disappearing almost completely, leading me to believe that maybe with the proper application some of the more hissy op-amps can be used with no problems.

 similarly, i would love to put it on the iem-side pins of the detachable cables on most high end iems. it would not be so easy to stick it on a 1/8" and probably not a good idea, for risk of crossing channels, but perhaps it could work on the connector for RSA's new protector. i love little tweaks that actually work so i think that would be just icing on the cake._

 

did that ages ago. it not a tremendous as what is claim but it does help. Infact i apply it to prevent oxidation.


----------



## aFo

Will the D10 be able to drive a can like the Beyerdynamic T1's to any decent level? I was looking at it for a possible future purchase, but that 600 ohms is daunting.


----------



## Darksyde

I'm using AD8656 for the LR, and AD8532's for the caps. I love the pairing with my HF2's. How about you guys?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aFo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will the D10 be able to drive a can like the Beyerdynamic T1's to any decent level? I was looking at it for a possible future purchase, but that 600 ohms is daunting._

 

The D10 struggles with the 600 ohm AKG K240M, so I think the T1 might be a little much for it to drive as well. For 600 ohm phones you could consider the 3MOVE, which has good voltage swing with the higher impedance phones, but I assume that you'd be better off with a desktop amp. I haven't tried the SR-71 which is also supposed to have good voltage swing, and the new Meier Stepdance is supposed to double the 9v battery to 18v and that may be a consideration as well.


----------



## vo328

Searching is turning up lots of threads that aren't quite what I'm looking for. Is the D10 capable of handling the HD650, AKG 271s and Shure SE530? I'm thinking to use this as my bedroom rig with an Airport Express. Thanks!


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vo328* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Searching is turning up lots of threads that aren't quite what I'm looking for. Is the D10 capable of handling the HD650, AKG 271s and Shure SE530? I'm thinking to use this as my bedroom rig with an Airport Express. Thanks!_

 

It is certainly capable of handling SE530s, from what I've and had been hearing. And I am sure it could handle 271s and please don't expect the synergy for 650s. But at a meet it did drive 650s to ear splitting levels with tight and deep bass, though it was just a 10 min audition.


----------



## saitoh

Any have any suggestions (other then an attenuator attached between the HP out and the phone jack) as to how to reduce the amount of output that the low volume setting is putting out?

 I catch a volume imbalance in the left channel until I get to 9pm and for some things that's louder then I want to deal with. I'm currently attenuating it digitally in my itunes clone, but I'd like a better solution in case I want to use the D10 with my h120 or something else that may not have the attenuation option. Any ideas?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *saitoh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any have any suggestions (other then an attenuator attached between the HP out and the phone jack) as to how to reduce the amount of output that the low volume setting is putting out?

 I catch a volume imbalance in the left channel until I get to 9pm and for some things that's louder then I want to deal with. I'm currently attenuating it digitally in my itunes clone, but I'd like a better solution in case I want to use the D10 with my h120 or something else that may not have the attenuation option. Any ideas?_

 

About the only thing I can think of is to contact iBasso. If the tracking is off they can put in a new volume control.


----------



## fakcior

Hello!
 I've received today used iBasso D10. Ive got three questions:
 1. I've opened amp and I saw that the battery is swollen. Is it right? Should I get replacement from ibasso? I haven't tested battery life yet.
 2. What is the top-kit? Which op-amps combos are top-kit?
 3. By what alps potentiometer can I replace the stock one? I presume it will be from RK097 series, but I need exact model signature.

 Regards!


----------



## jamato8

I've received today used iBasso D10. Ive got three questions:
 1. I've opened amp and I saw that the battery is swollen. Is it right? Should I get replacement from ibasso? I haven't tested battery life yet.

 I would contact iBasso, it should not be swollen.

 2. What is the top-kit? Which op-amps combos are top-kit?

 You can go back a page or two and find HiFlight. He makes up the topkit. 

 3. By what alps potentiometer can I replace the stock one? I presume it will be from RK097 series, but I need exact model signature.

 The pot now used by iBasso has been upgraded and tracks well but you can always contact them to get further information. They are pretty forthcoming.


----------



## fakcior

I've got a top-kit. It came with iBasso (extra opamps; not rolling kit). It's AD8397 and another one (I don't remember). But iare there many verisons of topkit? What's the difference between them?


----------



## Equus

??? Isn't the Topkit the configuration HiFlight came to as being one of the optimums for the D10? What came with my D10 was the kit with opamps and tools.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Equus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_??? Isn't the Topkit the configuration HiFlight came to as being one of the optimums for the D10? What came with my D10 was the kit with opamps and tools._

 

Yes, the TopKit is HiFlight's and the the rest as you explained. HiFlight knows some of the best op amps to use.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fakcior* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got a top-kit. It came with iBasso (extra opamps; not rolling kit). It's AD8397 and another one (I don't remember). But iare there many verisons of topkit? What's the difference between them?_

 

I never produced a D10 Topkit using the AD8397!


----------



## klekk

Got my Mini-Audio/Ibasso D-10 today. Here are some pictures. Do the ibasso owners see any differences in the build except for the print? It sounds great


----------



## fakcior

You have alps potentiometer (or fake alps), I have yellow potentiometer with A50K signature and other knob.


----------



## klekk

I dont think its fake. Mini audio is the ibasso brand for the chinese market. It came in original packing with warranty card for ibasso.


----------



## fakcior

I meant that alps potentiometer can be fake, but I don't think so.


----------



## Zai

I accidentally cracked the optical connector, it still works but anyone was able to replace it?


----------



## klekk

Just ordered hiflights topkit for the D10. I have a pair of IE8 and Denon D5000. Any suggestions as to which opamps will be best for a combined use of these two headphones?

 Any answers will be much appreciated.

 Zai: I dont know, but you could send a mail to ibasso asking them for spare parts or for a warranty coverage.


----------



## HiFlight

After installing the Topkit, both phones will work well without changing any of the Topkit opamps. 
 Ron


----------



## qusp

yes, the topkit IS opamps, not sure why you bought the topkit and are asking what opamps you should use


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I accidentally cracked the optical connector, it still works but anyone was able to replace it?_

 

It is a through the hole connector. You could ask iBasso to send you one in the mail and have any decent tech take out the old one and replace it.


----------



## klekk

gusp: I am new to op amp rolling. And thought that the op amp kit consisted of many different op amps. Thank you for clarifying that for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got the kit recommended by a friend without really knowing much about it.


----------



## Zai

@klekk & jamato8:
 Ok, i'll contact iBasso for advice.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

At work I use a different rig than at home.

 I tried two different setups:

 Foobar WASAPI -> Firewire -> Firewire 410 -> Optical -> d10 (headphone out) -> Gilmore Lite -> cd3000

 Foobar WASAPI -> Firewire -> Firewire 410 (1/2 Output) -> Gilmore Lite -> cd3000

 For a few days I listened to the first setup and was pretty pleased, after I finally got an adapter hooked up to the fw410 to use its outputs...

 I found that the d10 as a DAC via optical fared worse than the fw410 as a DAC; it was like the bass wasn't as well rounded on the d10 and couldn't keep up. I could also hear more coloration with the fw410, especially apprent with extreme high frequencies (it kind of hurts) as a result of this. I would venture to say too that the detail was better with the fw410. 

 I do recognize that volume matching at that point gets difficult, but do you guys think that there's some flaw in my setups here or would this seem accurate?


----------



## Mr Do

You use the line out of the D10 instead of the headphone out when connected to an amp.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr Do* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You use the line out of the D10 instead of the headphone out when connected to an amp._

 

I did that too but stuck with the HP out due to Jamato's recommendation!


----------



## wolfen68

I've never heard of that recommendation with the D10. 

 I'm not above using a HP out as a lineout in special cases, but the DAC portion of the D10 is the stronger half of the unit (IMO)...so I don't know why you would want to put the D10's amp in the way.


----------



## jamato8

I don't think I ever recommended using the headphone out to drive another amp if you are just using the dac section of the D10. That would put another circuit in the signal path. I would use it with the line out not the HP output.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I think at one point I may have noticed that the D10 line-out was softer and less dynamic sounding, and the output level was not as high as my Pico DAC only. I found that using the headphone out as a preamp with opamp upgrade installed sounded slightly better with my low gain amps, where I could turn up the volume of the D10 for a higher output level. With proper volume matching the D10 line out is probably not really worse.


----------



## Dyzoo

Hi everybody

 Thank you for this nice thread.
 I would like to buy a 'plug and play' opamp AD8397.
 Where can I buy it ?

 Thank you


----------



## Dyzoo

Hi everybody

 Thank you for this nice thread.
 I would like to buy a 'plug and play' opamp AD8397.
 Where can I buy it ?

 Thank you


----------



## Dyzoo

I found the opamp.
 Thank you HiFlight.


----------



## numbskull

Got some doubts about the D10 and amps in general. 

 For what i've read from the D10 manual, if i plug the optical cable, the AUX will act as line out, and HP out will be ignored. Then, if i plug my headphone to the aux input, the D10 will only act as a DAC? There will be no amplification?

 I wish to use D10 for my headphone and speakers. DAC for speakers, DAC/Amp for headphone. Both using USB (for charging) and optical. Is that possible? Where should i plug connectors for this to happen?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *numbskull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got some doubts about the D10 and amps in general. 

 For what i've read from the D10 manual, if i plug the optical cable, the AUX will act as line out, and HP out will be ignored. Then, if i plug my headphone to the aux input, the D10 will only act as a DAC? There will be no amplification?

 I wish to use D10 for my headphone and speakers. DAC for speakers, DAC/Amp for headphone. Both using USB (for charging) and optical. Is that possible? Where should i plug connectors for this to happen?_

 

The optical takes precedence, if both optical and USB are plugged in, charging is possible, but signal from optical will be heard. 

 You can listen to either headphone out or line out (from Aux In/Out), but not both at the same time. Aux out takes priority over headphone out. 

 Hope this helps...unfortunately, you cannot feed your powered speakers and listen to the D10 headphone out at the same time.


----------



## numbskull

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The optical takes precedence, if both optical and USB are plugged in, charging is possible, but signal from optical will be heard. 

 You can listen to either headphone out or line out (from Aux In/Out), but not both at the same time. Aux out takes priority over headphone out. 

 Hope this helps...unfortunately, you cannot feed your powered speakers and listen to the D10 headphone out at the same time._

 

I was thinking that both at the same time would not be possible.

 But, if i want to listen to speakers, i should plug in Aux, and if i want to change to headphones, i should plug in HP out?

 Correct me if i'm wrong: the HP out with optical connection will act as DAC/Amp, while the AUX (in this case, only DAC) will act as line out, without amplification. Is that so?


----------



## hvu

That is correct, if you use the Aux/out the volume knob will effect the output volume.


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *numbskull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...if i want to listen to speakers, i should plug in Aux, and if i want to change to headphones, i should plug in HP out?_

 

Yes. The D10 searches for input signals - Coaxial, if no coaxial it seeks Optical, if no Optical it seeks USB - and delivers to Aux, if no Aux then through the Amp section to Headphone Out.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *numbskull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...the HP out with optical connection will act as DAC/Amp, while the AUX (in this case, only DAC) will act as line out, without amplification. Is that so?_

 

Yes.

 So some of your possible scenarios are:
You have Optical and Aux connected and turn D10 on. You're now using the D10 as a DAC only listening to the Optical input.
As above but also USB connected. You're using it as a DAC only listening to the Optical input but you can also be charging the battery via USB at the same time - if you switch the charge switch on at the back.
You have USB and Aux connected and turn D10 on. You're now using the D10 as a DAC only listening to the USB input but you can also be charging the battery via USB at the same time - if you switch the charge switch on at the back.
You have Optical and Headphone connected and turn D10 on. You're now using the D10 as a DAC/Amp through the connected headphones listening to the Optical input.
As above but also USB connected. You're using it as a DAC/Amp through the connected headphones listening to the Optical input but you can also be charging the battery via USB at the same time - if you switch the charge switch on at the back.
You have USB and Headphone connected and turn D10 on. You're now using the D10 as a DAC/Amp through the connected headphones listening to the USB input but you can also be charging the battery via USB at the same time - if you switch the charge switch on at the back.
I hope that clarifies in sufficient detail.

 Have fun with it - it's a great combo device!

 BTW, I find the Aux output to be considerably less in voltage than my other DACs so you may be pushing the volume control up on your speaker Amp when you are using it as a DAC (but the sound is great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## HiFlight

Very comprehensive and accurate overview, Webbie...Probably should be a sticky on the D10 thread!


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webbie64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. The D10 searches for input signals - Coaxial, if no coaxial it seeks Optical, if no Optical it seeks USB - and delivers to Aux, if no Aux then through the Amp section to Headphone Out.



 Yes.

 So some of your possible scenarios are:
You have Optical and Aux connected and turn D10 on. You're now using the D10 as a DAC only listening to the Optical input.
As above but also USB connected. You're using it as a DAC only listening to the Optical input but you can also be charging the battery via USB at the same time - if you switch the charge switch on at the back.
You have USB and Aux connected and turn D10 on. You're now using the D10 as a DAC only listening to the USB input but you can also be charging the battery via USB at the same time - if you switch the charge switch on at the back.
You have Optical and Headphone connected and turn D10 on. You're now using the D10 as a DAC/Amp through the connected headphones listening to the Optical input.
As above but also USB connected. You're using it as a DAC/Amp through the connected headphones listening to the Optical input but you can also be charging the battery via USB at the same time - if you switch the charge switch on at the back.
You have USB and Headphone connected and turn D10 on. You're now using the D10 as a DAC/Amp through the connected headphones listening to the USB input but you can also be charging the battery via USB at the same time - if you switch the charge switch on at the back.
I hope that clarifies in sufficient detail.

 Have fun with it - it's a great combo device!

 BTW, I find the Aux output to be considerably less in voltage than my other DACs so you may be pushing the volume control up on your speaker Amp when you are using it as a DAC (but the sound is great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 

I will put it on the first post of the thread if you don't mind.


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very comprehensive and accurate overview, Webbie...Probably should be a sticky on the D10 thread!_

 

Thanks.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will put it on the first post of the thread if you don't mind._

 

No probs.

 Glad to be of help wherever I can.


----------



## pounce

Does anyone know why the light next to the volume knob of the D10 would be blinking when I am plugged into usb and have the toggle on the back switch to usb?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pounce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know why the light next to the volume knob of the D10 would be blinking when I am plugged into usb and have the toggle on the back switch to usb?_

 

It means the battery is low and needs a re-charge. Flip the toggle switch at the back. The red LED should turn-on to indicate charging.


----------



## pounce

Thanks. Why would the battery be running low if I am running from USB? Perhaps I assumed wrong in the way the device operates. I had assumed that when running from USB that the battery is not being used and that power is provided by the USB connection. I've been using the device with USB 100% since I got it about a week ago.

 Should I keep it in charge mode all the time if I am connected to USB?


----------



## jamato8

If the charge mode is off, then the battery is not charged. I just leave it on while hooked to the USB but if you don't leave it on then you will have to recharge the battery each time it gets low. That is the reason for the on and off for the selector switch.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pounce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. Why would the battery be running low if I am running from USB? Perhaps I assumed wrong in the way the device operates. I had assumed that when running from USB that the battery is not being used and that power is provided by the USB connection. I've been using the device with USB 100% since I got it about a week ago.

 Should I keep it in charge mode all the time if I am connected to USB?_

 

The D10 is always running from the battery power, never from the USB. The USB is always just for charging the battery when the toggle switch is set to ON CHARGE.


----------



## pounce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D10 is always running from the battery power, never from the USB. The USB is always just for charging the battery when the toggle switch is set to ON CHARGE._

 

Thanks for this info. This wasn't clear to me.

 What's the purpose of the switch then? I guess I'm not seeing the value of being able to leave it on "charge" all the time without impacting the battery, but also have the ability to switch from "Charge".

 Has this been covered somewhere before? I searched and didn't uncover anything.


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pounce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the purpose of the switch then? I guess I'm not seeing the value of being able to leave it on "charge" all the time without impacting the battery, but also have the ability to switch from "Charge".

 Has this been covered somewhere before? I searched and didn't uncover anything._

 

It has been covered before from two angles The first is to do with *better sound quality from direct battery power*...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dnm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, it would sound logical to me to disconnect the battery when the power is on and run on external power, charging the battery if necessary._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well that would require a totally separate circuit to filter the power from USB which is actually quite dirty in general, instead the batteries are used as a sort of capacitor bank._

 

And the other angle is to do with the fact it is a *Lithium-Ion battery*...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shredder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I plug the D10 into my USB from the computer and let er rip..... should I switch the charge switch to on or off? Can I do both at the same time? Better to kill a battery then recharge?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I leave mine on charge all the time. The battery has a certain amount of cycles. A cycle is a total discharge and recharge. If you discharge 1/4 and recharge you have 1/4 of a cycle. I prefer to cycle my battery much less as it will last longer and I find no reason to discharge my battery all the time. To burn in I leave the switch on._

 

This is related to the advantages/disadvantages of Lithium-Ion batteries. On the one hand they do not suffer from the memory effect of nickel metal hydride and nicket cadmium batteries, meaning they don't benefit from being fully discharged before recharging and, in fact, most advocate you should rarely discharge them fully. The other side of this, though, is the poor cycle life. There are a number of factors here including the temperature the battery is stored at and the amount of charge in the battery.

 As Wikipedia (Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) indicates...

 "At a 100% charge level, a typical Li-ion laptop battery that is full most of the time at 25 °C or 77 °F will irreversibly lose approximately 20% capacity per year. However, a battery in a poorly ventilated laptop may be subject to prolonged exposure to higher temperatures, which will shorten its life. Different storage temperatures produce different loss results: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, 15% at 0, 25 and 40 degrees Celsius respectively"

 Another advantage of Lithium-Ion batteries is that they only have a self-discharge rate of approximately 5-10% per month, compared to over 30% per month in common nickel metal hydride batteries.

 So what does that all mean???

 Well, my take is that I:
avoid letting my Li-Ion batteries discharge fully because there is a risk that they won't recharge if they're depleted below their minimum voltage; and
my loss of total battery capacity will be minimised by me keeping my D10 in at least a partially charged state and in lower temperatures (but, no, unlike film storage I *don't* keep my D10 in the fridge LOL).
I hope that helps clarify the design reasoning for you.

 Happy listening to your D10!


----------



## sbulack

Great post, webbie!
 It pulls together a lot of useful information in one convenient access spot.
 Thanks!


----------



## pounce

Well, I get what you are saying, but perhaps it just doesn't make sense to me that someone would design the charge/power of this device to offload the logic of when and for how long the unit is in charge mode to the human owner. It would seem far more logical to just build a good charging circuit like an online UPS and remove the switch completely. If the unit is always pulling from the battery then it does sound like its doing a double conversion.

 I'll ask ibasso directly. There has to be a solid explanation for using the switch or they would not have put it there. I understand what it actually does, but its not really clear on why its needed or how they want the humans to use it.


----------



## tekdemon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pounce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I get what you are saying, but perhaps it just doesn't make sense to me that someone would design the charge/power of this device to offload the logic of when and for how long the unit is in charge mode to the human owner. It would seem far more logical to just build a good charging circuit like an online UPS and remove the switch completely. If the unit is always pulling from the battery then it does sound like its doing a double conversion.

 I'll ask ibasso directly. There has to be a solid explanation for using the switch or they would not have put it there. I understand what it actually does, but its not really clear on why its needed or how they want the humans to use it._

 

I'm pretty sure the directions that come with it explain it somewhat although iirc it didn't go into super detail. At any rate, it's basically so that if you're using it as a DAC all the time you won't be constantly charging the battery-iBasso basically recommends that you let the battery drain down instead of constantly charging it. Lithium ion batteries don't like to be constantly kept at a maximum charge state so that actually does make sense although I believe their suggestion was to let it run down all the way before charging which isn't always so great for the Lithium ion cell life-also really annoying if you want to unplug it and use it as a portable amp for a portable music device because now you don't really know how much power is left in it.
 At any rate the charge circuit actually should have a shut-off once the battery is fully charged but I'm not too clear myself on whether it's basically forcing you into using the battery at that point or whether it's kind of balancing the charge rate in a tiny trickle against the output use. Honestly you can probably just keep it in the charge position all the time when using it as a DAC so long as you let the battery run down about once a week.


----------



## Sceptre

I recall something about the charging circuit taking juice to operate. So when switched off, it saves battery juice! Sounds logical to me. Gives the user longer battery life!

 Happy Listening

 Sceptre


----------



## pounce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tekdemon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm pretty sure the directions that come with it explain it somewhat although iirc it didn't go into super detail._

 

I suppose if there were directions in the box I'd have more of a clue.

 I really do get the concepts around the battery etc. I just think it's fraught with potential human error 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sceptre* 
_I recall something about the charging circuit taking juice to operate. So when switched off, it saves battery juice! Sounds logical to me. Gives the user longer battery life!_

 

Ok, now that is just silly. It takes power to charge the battery so don't charge the battery to save battery... heh...


 The only other thing I can think of is that if the charge circuit isn't actually doing a double conversion then while the unit is in charge it may have the potential to add some level of interference or degrade sound quality.


----------



## HiFlight

Lithium batteries have a finite number of re-charging cycles. By adding the switch, iBasso has provided a method for the user to avoid unnecessary charging cycles, charging only when necessary.


----------



## pounce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lithium batteries have a finite number of re-charging cycles. By adding the switch, iBasso has provided a method for the user to avoid unnecessary charging cycles, charging only when necessary._

 

Yes, its been repeated a few times.

 I'd prefer a better charging circuit if the only purpose of the switch if to extend the battery life by making the human owner think about their technology limitations. It's not very common.


 It's just hard for me to wrap my head around the expected use case for the product if using the USB input.

 Plug in USB
 Flip switch to charge
 Turn on unit and listen
 Wait some time until battery would seem to have a full charge
 Switch from charge
 Listen until the low power light flashes
 Flip switch to charge
 Wait some time until battery would seem to have a full charge
 Switch from charge
 Rinse and repeat
 ...

 Now, if the case was that the device used USB power when it was using the USB input THEN it makes more sense to have the switch. The use case here would be that when it was in charge mode it's charging and maybe running off battery at the same time. The fact that the unit is always running off battery is what makes it different.

 My usage of the device it probably going to be 90% USB.

 As mentioned I'll post the official response from ibasso when I get it. I really don't want to be beating a dead horse here. I think it's good to get clarity on the feature.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pounce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_..................snip.........................

 As mentioned I'll post the official response from ibasso when I get it. I really don't want to be beating a dead horse here. I think it's good to get clarity on the feature._

 

I suspect that this is the reply you will receive from iBasso; to quote from the D10 instructional manual, in bold print, it reads: 

 "In order to extend the battery life, please always keep the charge switch on OFF position when it does not need to be charged". 

 If the idea of switching the charging circuit off when the D10 does not need charging annoys you, simply leave it on all the time.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pounce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, its been repeated a few times._

 

yes, but although you say you do, it seems you arent getting it, but instead are trying to overcomplicate what is actually quite a simple concept. dont mean this to sound harsh, just seems you wont accept what is a pretty reasonable explanation IMO


----------



## pounce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, but although you say you do, it seems you arent getting it, but instead are trying to overcomplicate what is actually quite a simple concept. dont mean this to sound harsh, just seems you wont accept what is a pretty reasonable explanation IMO_

 


 I'm sorry, but I really do understand it. Honest. Really. Perhaps I haven't been verbose enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *At the same time* I think it's a poor design and that it would be better handled by changing the charge circuit. I don't want to be critical so I was truly looking for a real reason for the lack of a better charge design that didn't require a switch.

 Anyone out there have a laptop as their main workstation at work in a dock? How many people think there should be a switch you need to maintain for the battery?

 Is there some benefit from not operating on USB when using USB? I will find out.


----------



## Sceptre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pounce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Anyone out there have a laptop as their main workstation at work in a dock? How many people think there should be a switch you need to maintain for the battery?

 Is there some benefit from not operating on USB when using USB? I will find out._

 

Yep.

 I remove the battery from my 15 inch MacBook Pro when at home.

 Why cook it! As much from local heat as from self created charging energy.

 I like the D10 charging switch. It gives me choice, control and allows me to check it with lights off.

 Pilots deal with many switches so they know the status and have control of many parameters. You may like things differently like a 'just fly' button. Maybe the pianola was made for your ancestors!


 If you don't like it - go buy a boostaroo - Only one switch there!

 Regards

 Sceptre


----------



## qusp

hehe, no i'm not sure you do, if you can explain an alternative for how they can include a mechanism that somehow knows when you want it on charge and when you dont, then perhaps this would make sense; (you havent presented one). I dont see a better way of allowing the user to choose when he/she wants it on charge and when he/she doesnt. 

 these are often used with laptops, in fact I would say a pretty large percentage use them in this manner, this means that if charging was always on, the laptop battery would be drained significantly faster for no good reason if there is charge in the D10 battery. 

 also the SQ is also superior on battery than USB power, there is more current available from the battery allowing wider choice of opamps (no matter what is done with DC-DC convertors and buck-boost chips, the power must come from somewhere) and then there is the matter of unwanted charge cycling of the battery cells. 

 lastly spdif doesnt provide any power, so those wanting to use the DAC with devices other than USB (like myself) need a power source, so USB power only isnt an option and anyway there are other devices if thats what you want. like the uDAC, apogee duet or even the new apogee ONE

 now if you are volunteering to program a uC that provides all this functionality automatically, i'm sure iBasso would be very interested to hear from you. as would the good people at texas instruments

 'maintain the the mechanism' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





,






  Quote:


 Is there some benefit from not operating on USB when using USB? I will find out. 
 

yes, *you arent using USB power* USB is a notoriously dirty and noisy power source, numerous devices have been invented solely to get around this by isolating the device under power from the 'host'; such as 'USB isolators' and provide this by means of a small transformer to isolate the signal and then provide a means of powering the device directly with clean power. there is all manner of switching noise and ground contamination riding on the USB power, less with laptops, but still not insignificant (desktops however are a nightmare in this regard)

 USB provides at most 5vdc, IMO not quite enough to power a DAC and reasonable amp section, especially one that has been designed to allow opamp rolling, the number of chips available given a common mode voltage of 5v point to point is vanishingly small and not much of quality among that small number.

 the reasons are many and I cannot think of a mor elegant solution than the switch that is provided; can you?


----------



## Equus

Wow...that's a lot of thrash over what should be a relatively simple concept. If there is, as qusp mentions, a more elegant solution, then fantastic. As it is, I would think that most solutions would add an incremental cost to the parts, and if you work in an industry that deals with the overall estimated variable costs per unit you'd know that all incremental cost savings really do add up in the long run.

  Quote:


 ok one too far maybe?? 
 

Possibly, but I lol'ed.


----------



## qusp

yeah but I edited it anyway, although possibly I should have edited out everything else and left that part, I had fun with that imagery. couldnt be bothered carrying it on, I suspect trolling, surely its not that difficult a concept to get your head around...really??....
 and for the switch to be replaced, it would need some pretty serious AI going on, because the benefit is being able to choose


----------



## pounce

geez. You guys are over the top. You really do beat a guy up for just trying to chat about something.

 Yes, I would prefer that the unit manage power without a switch.

 Yes, I would prefer a design that indicated when the battery was fully charged.

 Yes, I would prefer a design that would not touch the main battery when using the USB.

 Why such a fanboy attitude here guys? I own the product. I'm not "trolling". Can't a person discuss the things they don't like about the product without getting ridiculed? 

 I didn't get a manual with my purchase. It appears very little documentation is provided by the company anyway.

 Lighten up guys. With as many posts as some of you have I would have expected a little more decorum.

 I actually don't think a switch is elegant.


----------



## Equus

For the record, I'm not trying to bash you dude. I'm just saying that realistically I do not see a better solution that would keep cost of parts down. If there is an automatic solution that works, that would be great. IMO, battery gauges are notoriously quirky and, if I remember right, the red charging light switches off when the battery is charged. And I think there have been some valid points brought up in response to your statement about wanting USB power and the advantages to using the battery.

 I just come from a retail and inventory background that makes me look at an item and think, "would that be cool?" Lots of times the answer is yes. Then you ask, "will it cost more?" Again, the answer is usually yes. There's a balance in between the two that iBasso is making, and while I can respect that you have some things you'd like improved on, I'm not sure it can feasibly be in scope for an amp/dac of this size and price point.


----------



## pounce

I did a quick check and there are several USB powered DAC/AMP's out there. The range varies but I've seen ones around $100 up to maybe $400. Most are reviewed on this forum somewhere. It would appear that some companies have figured out how to make the USB power work.

 Here is an example of a portable (does not have a battery) USB powered DAC/AMP. I think this is a good example because it also has a wallwart option and the performance between the two is published so we can see the technical differences for this unit.

USB Audio - USB Headphone Amp - USB DAC Headphone Amp - Fireye II USB DAC / Headphone Amplifier

 Here is one that is one on the higher end.

CEntrance DACport -　high-sampling ready portable USB DAC - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


 Price point wasn't really what influenced me with purchasing the D10. I really don't know for sure if the design we have was significantly cost motivated or not.

 I've never seen any of the lights go out when the device is switched to charge. Might be that over 2 weeks now the unit hasn't reached full charge. I really don't know. Can anyone else confirm if there is an indicator light for full charge? Perhaps my unit is faulty.

 I like the unit and think it sounds pretty good with D2000's and IEM's. It really doesn't meet all of my expectations so there is more than likely another purchase in my future.


----------



## Equus

Sounds like you're not happy, and that's fine man. Sell the D10 and get something else. No real use in defending your position ad nauseam. You've brought up points, people have brought up counterpoints. I can enjoy my amp and you can enjoy shopping for another...to each their own.

 As for the light, at least on mine there's a red light under the switch that glows red when the battery is charging and goes off when (I assume) the battery is charged. Usually I do this when the unit is powered down and not in use.


----------



## hvu

It could be that ur d10 is defective because when I have the usb plugged into the d10 the orange led comes on and when I flip the charging switch the red led lights up and when it is done charging the red led turns off. If you have the d10 on, the red led will never turn off.


----------



## pounce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It could be that ur d10 is defective because when I have the usb plugged into the d10 the orange led comes on and when I flip the charging switch the red led lights up and when it is done charging the red led turns off._

 

Thanks for the confirmation. I'm going to plug it into a usb wallwart and leave it turned off and switched to charge and see if i can't get the light to indicate full charge. I have to imagine if I leave it for a day in that charge state and the light is still on then something is wrong and I have to send it back.

 Cheers.


----------



## hvu

It shouldnt take not longer that a few hrs if your D10 has a decent charge left it it.


----------



## tim3320070

.


----------



## tim3320070

Opamp recommendations for the Klipsch X10? 
 I want to open the sound a bit and maybe tame the bass a bit. What is the best combo to achieve this?
 Thanks.


----------



## jopagi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webbie64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As Wikipedia (Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) indicates...

 "At a 100% charge level, a typical Li-ion laptop battery that is full most of the time at 25 °C or 77 °F will irreversibly lose approximately 20% capacity per year. However, a battery in a poorly ventilated laptop may be subject to prolonged exposure to higher temperatures, which will shorten its life. Different storage temperatures produce different loss results: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, 15% at 0, 25 and 40 degrees Celsius respectively"
_

 

That's a significant difference of irreversible loss when partially charged versus fully charged... only 4% versus 20% at 77 °F.

 I'm not willing to move to Alaska -- too many mosquitoes, for one thing -- so I can't keep the temperature low, but I can play with the charge level.

 Since I never really need a full charge (except perhaps for a biannual intercontinental flight) it seems as though I would be best served by keeping it around a 50% charge level. That means (almost) never letting it get fully charged, which is the exact opposite of what I and I suspect most other people normally do. I do the same as jamato8 --leave it in charge mode all the time.

 In practice, it's not worth it to me to worry about it that much, though. The convenience of leaving it charged all the time outweighs any potential battery life savings.
 In other words, ease of (my) life is more important than length of (battery) life. It's the old quality of life versus length of life debate, just in a different format


----------



## yehgermeister

i just bought a ibasso d10. i am using it with denon 2000s connected to a mbp via a toslink to optical mini cable. for lack of a better word and description, everything sounds, scratchy and grainy (listening to kid a). i'm basing this off of having having this only for a few hours, they're probably not burnt in completely (bought these used, but barely used according to seller) but everything sound better with just the headphones themselves. any ideas? i'm still not sure completely how the ibasso d10 works. any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yehgermeister* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just bought a ibasso d10. i am using it with denon 2000s connected to a mbp via a toslink to optical mini cable. for lack of a better word and description, everything sounds, scratchy and grainy (listening to kid a). i'm basing this off of having having this only for a few hours, they're probably not burnt in completely (bought these used, but barely used according to seller) but everything sound better with just the headphones themselves. any ideas? i'm still not sure completely how the ibasso d10 works. any help would be greatly appreciated._

 

What is your source? Are you using the optical dac or line it? What opamps?


----------



## yehgermeister

i'm using itunes on my mbp listening to mostly 320kbps mp3s and flac. Oddly enough, the mp3 version of Kid A doesn't sound as bad compared to the flac version. i guess i'm using the optical dac because i have the toslink to optical mini connected to the optical port in the back of the d10 and the other end into the headphone/optical audio out port.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

anyone know if there are still any black gates available out there? and where to get them? i'd like to try the mod on mine, anything to squeeze that last ounce of juice out of it.


----------



## jamato8

Google for Black Gate Capacitors. There are a few out there.


----------



## klekk

I am also interested in the d10 bg mod. Which bg capacitors are to be the best choice. Ebay have them from 9.99 to 400 usd.


----------



## qusp

BG NX or N for the mod and dont even think of buying them from ebay. they are running out at even legitimate shops (they arent made anymore), ebay is going to rip you off for sure. actually someone needs to publish a replacement mod for the BG mod, most values are drying up and if people try to hget them on ebay and some other sites, they will be sold fakes, no question about it.


----------



## jamato8

There aren't any real replacements for BG's. There are good caps though and maybe bypassed with some of the good SMD films, excellent performance can be obtained. There for sure aren't any nonpolar caps like the BG's.


----------



## qusp

ok, well looks like its got to be me then, since I have a pretty large collection of SMD films at the moment and also there is a new silk cap by Nichicon that could be just the ticket if bypassed by PPS


----------



## jamato8

I look forward to what you find out.


----------



## AudioDelite

I just bought the MAD-D10 (Mini Audio D10) China distribution version of iBasso D10, and it just sounds spectacular!
   
  I'm curious.. is op-amp rolling/changing recommended for a newbie like me? I know a bit or two about circuity but I'm afraid I'll break something trying to change the op-amps. I stumbled on Head-Fi 2 weeks ago and I went ahead in buying a DAC/AMP and I haven't regret it (THANK YOU Head-Fi!).
   
  By the way! I'm using a MacBook Pro > D10 > Westone 3's!


----------



## jamato8

Just read up on the op amps some and you shouldn't have any problems. There is a lot of advice in this thread though I will admit there are a lot of pages here. The kit by HiFlight is a nice addition to the D10. Welcome and have a great time. I would get used to the sound as is but it is always nice to have options.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I would definitely recommend HiFlight's latest topkit as well. Like you, I joined Head-Fi somewhat recently and D10 has been my first DAC/Amp. The topkit represented a huge improvement for me over stock D10 and I easily recommend it as a great value (using Sennheiser IE8s).
   
  I was also worried about messing with the op amps but they are true plug and play (similar to swapping cpu or memory sticks). HiFlight includes simple directions with the kit as well. I posted detailed impressions of my D10 with and without the topkit in the IE8 appreciation thread. I also posted a bunch of pics of changing the op amps. Just do an advanced searched on that thread and search for posts by me.
   
  Grats on your D10. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have. Also, welcome to Head-Fi.


----------



## NeverEnough

Just got my D10.  Great delivery quickness from the iBasso crew.  Nice.
   
  I took the tuning advice from some of the early, early posts.  Ended up with the
  ADA4841 for the L/R and the AD8656's as the buffers... [ edit follows... ]
   
  Got my optical hooked up, and retested.  Even before that, I was starting to
  backtrack on the ADA4841.  I believe the ADA4841 produces the best mid-range,
  but at the expense of the bass and high treble.  So it tends to be the most "nasal",
  but again, the nice midrange was what I was responding to earlier.  A fresh listen this
  morning made me reconsider the ADA4841.
   
  So best two combos, from my testing were: 1) 8532+8656+8656 and
  2) 8656+NUL+NUL.  #1 is more forward on the high treble, #2 is more laid back.
  Through the optical, I'd say both are very good.  #1 is a bit hot, but the dynamics
  and the push on the top make it my first choice.
   
  Primary test material: Yellowjackets, "Blue Hats", and Sennheiser HD 530 II phones.


----------



## AudioDelite

Thanks  I think I'll do some messing around then! I'll post results if I notice anything else different from what you guys are hearing!


----------



## yehgermeister

I want to use my d10 as a dac connected to my mbp via a optical cable. I want to connect it to my ef1 amp, which accepts RCA connectors. What cable would I need to get?


----------



## qusp

a mini to RCA cable of course


----------



## wuwhere

Yup, a mini from the D10's AUX IN/OUT to the RCA.


----------



## twylight

I think my battery died - or at least charging it did - is there a way to replace or bypass the battery?  I emailed them, no response yet


----------



## jamato8

Does it work with the adapter plugged in?


----------



## twylight

nope the little juice that is in it dies off - it charges up maybe 1/100 of a percent is all - totally dead in about 30 seconds if i run it unplugged.  Its below the charge threshold, clipping every few seconds.


----------



## Armaegis

I bought a D10 off another forum member and was thinking of changing opamps (got the topkit as well), but I'm confused... from my preliminary reading in this thread, there's supposed to be one opamp and two buffers correct?
  (comparing to pics from here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/399315/ibasso-d10-updates-1st-page-with-current-opamp-choices-by-hiflight-images-page-1-12-13-14-15-21-71/3885#post_6488066)
   
   
  There are four chips in mine... below is my pic.
  Top two chips: AD 743 JN
  bottom two: 8618 (I think; it's hard to read)

   
  In the box, my others are: 4841, 8656 x 2, 8532A x 2, dummy x2, three others that I can't identify


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> I bought a D10 off another forum member and was thinking of changing opamps (got the topkit as well), but I'm confused... from my preliminary reading in this thread, there's supposed to be one opamp and two buffers correct?
> (comparing to pics from here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/399315/ibasso-d10-updates-1st-page-with-current-opamp-choices-by-hiflight-images-page-1-12-13-14-15-21-71/3885#post_6488066)
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You already have a top kit installed, and is using the pair of AD743 on a 2:1 that some people noted has a little more hiss.  The buffers are AD8616 I believe.  But it's the version before the AD744 Output Bypassed Class A on a 2:1 adapter (two single channel opamps acting like one dual channel opamp).


----------



## Armaegis

Hmm, I did notice a bit of hiss when the volume was turned all the way up, though at that point it was painfully loud and I wasn't entirely sure if it might have been clipping or not.
   
  So there's nothing for me to change? I don't even know which ones are opamps and which ones are buffers that I have in the box...


----------



## LevA

the one with double chip on it is the  opamp (in the picture on top)
  the other two are your buffers (in the picture below, next to the caps)


----------



## jamato8

The 743 are very good op amps and hard to get. Some hiss with the volume all the way up doesn't mean anything. If there is no hiss at listening levels then essentially there is no hiss.


----------



## Armaegis

I also have a kit containing
  8656 x 2
  8532A x 2,
  4841 x 1 (there might be a second one, but the lettering is worn out on a few of the chips so I can't identify them)
   
  Which of these are opamps and which are buffers? What will happen if I mix them up?
   
  I have three unknown chips with the lettering worn off. Is there any way to identify them?
   
  I take back the comment about hiss; I think it's just clipping at high volumes.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> I also have a kit containing
> *8656 x 2*
> *8532A x 2,*
> *4841 x 1* (there might be a second one, but the lettering is worn out on a few of the chips so I can't identify them)
> ...


 

 Those in bold are all opamps, but some opamps work in the buffer sockets.  The 8532 if I recall are the stock buffers opamps, and the 4841 is the stock main amp's opamp.  The 8656 can be used as buffers, or you can use one as the amps single opamp.  I have no idea how to identify one with worn off lettering.


----------



## Armaegis

So I switched out the 8616 buffers for 8656. Sound is cleaner at high volumes, but now I've got this funny blip in the right channel when I turn off the D10. Sounds sort of like a record scratch sound effect.
   
  Also, is there normally a popping sound in the headphones when the D10 is turned on? Though I've noticed that plugging/unplugging headphones while the D10 is running has no noise whatsoever.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Some opamps can allow a louder pop than others I suppose, but it's been so long since I made any changes I don't recall if mine does that (I use the D4 now, since the USB is slightly more detailed and the opamps I put in make it sound like a P-51).  Noise with powering down is also not unusual with some amps.  My Pico Slim pops loudly with turning on, and makes a squeak when I turn it off - I know this only because I've used it more recently.


----------



## Armaegis

I wonder if the squeak is some sort of capacitance discharge.
   
  So I still have three unidentified chips... two seemed to be paired together in the box, so I assume they're a pair of buffers? If I had to guess, they might be the LHM6643 since it appears I have the other ones from the opamp kit.
   
  If they're not, do I risk permanent damage if I give them a try?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> I wonder if the squeak is some sort of capacitance discharge.
> 
> So I still have three unidentified chips... two seemed to be paired together in the box, so I assume they're a pair of buffers? If I had to guess, they might be the LHM6643 since it appears I have the other ones from the opamp kit.
> 
> If they're not, do I risk permanent damage if I give them a try?


 

 The pops and other artifacts that you hear when turning the amp on and off are normal, and will vary somewhat with different combinations of opamps.  The sound is due to the power supply caps charging up and discharging.  Once the opamp has a stable supply voltage, you should hear nothing.  Sometimes you will hear a scratching sound as the volume knob is rotated (without an input signal).  This is usually due to a bit of DC offset voltage, but, again, this is normal and will vary depending on choice of opamp. 
   
  You can safely use any opamp in the buffer sockets, but just make sure that they are both the same, otherwise you will likely hear a different SQ in the left and right channels. 
   
  You might consider using the dummy opamps that have just a very tiny SMD resistor soldered on the adapters in the buffer sockets.  Many find that this will yield a more natural and lifelike sound while extending battery life. 
   
  The LMH6643 buffers will be a warmer, more mellow sound.  
   
  IMO, the AD8616 is preferable to the AD8656, whether in buffer sockets or in LR sockets.  The highs are smoother and there is little, if any, sibilance. 
   
  A good combination that has superb battery life is an AD8616 in the LR socket and 2 dummies in the buffer socket.  SQ ranks right up there close to the latest Topkit.  ( TLE2141 Class A module + EL8201 buffers).
   
  Ron


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> The LMH6643 buffers will be a warmer, more mellow sound.
> 
> IMO, the AD8616 is preferable to the AD8656, whether in buffer sockets or in LR sockets.  The highs are smoother and there is little, if any, sibilance.
> 
> ...


 

 Some day I'll have to try the combos above, but I have been so happy with the TLE2141 class A + EL8201 because they come very close to the P-51 sound signature that it wasn't worth trying anything else now.  
   
  The D4 hit's a P-51 sound signature dead-on with it's top kit, and I could NOT reliably tell which I was listening to in comparisons.  But the D10 with topkit has just a slight bit of treble roll off or very slightly less airiness vs the P-51 or the opamp rolled D-4 with top kit.  It comes extremely close though.


----------



## Armaegis

edit...


----------



## Packgrog

I just posted a new poll of sorts regarding the H1x0, wondering how many people use it with spdif.  See it here: 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/497818/poll-who-uses-an-iriver-h1x0-with-digital-out
   
  I'm posting the link here under the assumption that many (if not most) of you who own an iBasso D10 (or D1, like myself) use or have used an H1x0 player with your DAC.  I would like to get a better count of people who do.
   
  I started looking into all of this since I couldn't find a good, definitive answer about whether or not Rockbox on the H1x0 was outputting higher resolution files at their full bit depth and sample rate.  After looking at the code, I can confirm that Rockbox outputs EVERYTHING at 16/44.  It's bit exact for redbook, but everything else gets resampled.  I'm a little disappointed by this, knowing that the iBasso DACs can handle hi-res, but at least now I know that it's a better idea to use 16/44 exclusively on the player, if it can be helped.  Hopefully I'll be able to find the time to tinker a bit and see if the H1x0 can handle outputting higher resolutions via spdif.  We shall see...


----------



## aqsw

Wow, Do I love this amp. I knew nothing about dac, amps etc. about 2 weeks ago. I bought a set of Shure 840 headphones about 3 months ago and just used them on my Itouch. The shure 750djs came on sale and I bought them and gave the 840s to my son. I saw a dc10 for sale on kijiji for $150.00 cdn that had been on sale for a couple months. I offered him $80.00, which he accepted and I picked it up the next day. (he lives 5 minutes from me). No pouch, opamps, allan key, or warranty card. He said he used it about two hours. It has no issues at all and sounds great, even though its not even close to being burned in(neither are my 750s).
  Now I have to get an itouch lod which will cost at least half of what the amp cost!!(oh well).
   
  I just want to thank all the posters on this forum for all the informative posts. I have learned a  lot in the last week just reading.
   
  Now Im going to have to try and score an iriver from kijiji. I remember years ago looking at the irivers at futureshop and thinking "what an ugly unit" . If only I would have known then what I have learned now.
   
  Thanks again,
  aqsw


----------



## jamato8

I use the iRivers everyday. I was very excited with the D1 came out because there would finally be an all in one unit that was truly portable. Then the D10 made its appearance, was smaller and offered some improvements and away it went. Great fun and sounds.


----------



## MacedonianHero

So my D10s arrived yesterday (no thanks to Canada Post that delivered them to the school next door...if not for their secretary, I'd still be waiting). My initial impressions are that I am very impressed. Using USB and my IEMs (primarily SE535s/W3s) this thing sounds a little on the warm side and not too unlike my (now sold) RSA Hornet (which is a good thing).
   
  Using my iPod Classic LOD to D10 is also  a really good way to go. I am going to try it via optical using my SACD player and some of my full sized cans (though I don't expect much with the T1s and HD800s, but do have hopes for my D7000s and RS1i's).
   
  The build quality is simply outstanding. I do also have the opamp rolling kit and plan on changing things up next week. Any recommendations?


----------



## Armaegis

My current favourite combination*: opamp AD 8616, buffers LMH 6643. As soon as I turned it on and started the first song, I had another one of those rare "wow" moments. The upper highs and lows are tamed a bit, the midrange and vocals are beautifully sweet and clear. Almost no distortion when I turned the amp to max, and very little pop/fuzz when I turn it on and off. I would describe the overall sound as rich and mellow.
   
  For a harder hitting sound, I like: opamp dual AD743, buffer AD 8656. Very punchy, with emphasized lows and highs. Seems to suck up battery power though.
   
  *with headphones Shure SRH840, which admitted could use the boost to the midrange
   
   
  Editing my notes all into one post so it's easier for me to reference...
   
Buffer notes while using 2:1 opamp AD743:
  general impression of 743 as opamp: bright, pronounced high end, very nice mids especially female vocals, a bit hissy
   
  I find the AD8616 to be smoother sounding especially at lower volumes, though with a tiny bit of hiss and it feels like they lose control when I turn it up. Nice mids, though the highs threaten to overwhelm at times. Bass is well defined but a little on the thin side. Awesome space and separation. Battery life ~14 hours. Moderate pop at power up.
   
  The AD8656 handles the big volumes better, but is a bit more brutish sounding. Very punchy with strong bass and highs. Battery life ~14 hours. Big pop at power up, fuzz at down.
   
  With the dummies, sound utterly falls apart at high volumes. Midrange especially gets all flubby and sounds like it's clipping. Low volumes is fine. Sharper more pronounced highs (not sure if I like that yet), but staging sounds a bit shallower than the 8616 or 8656. Battery life ~20 hours. Almost no pops during power up or down.
   
  LMH6643 is indeed more mellow as Hiflight mentioned. Stark contrast to the dummies, and I find myself immediately liking these very much. High volumes hold together very well, but not as well as the 8656. Very slight pop and hiss during power up/down.
   
   
   
Buffers w/opamp AD 8616
  general impression of 8616 as opamp - great for midrange: vocals, acoustics, jazz, etc; not as good for bass heavy genres, overall sound signature seems more dependent on buffers compared to other opamps
   
  LMH6643:
  super smooth, tamed upper highs and lows, beautiful midrange, very good separation, no distortion at high volumes. Formerly my favourite combo before I got the EL 8201 buffers
   
  AD8532:
  very similar to the LMH6643 sound, not quite as smooth but has a bit more power, lose a bit of separation, a tiny bit scratchy at mid volumes and up, perfectly fine at low-mid volumes, really interesting "waterfall" sound when the opamp discharges during powerdown
   
  dummies:
  lighter/airier feel compared to LMH6643, separation is lower, lose a bit of the mid richness, gains high end sparkle, loses a bit of control at high volumes (but not nearly as bad as the AD743/dummies combo), very long battery life
   
  AD8656:
  restores some of the bass and highs that the AD8616 lacks, very up front presentation, upper end is clean and sharp (finger snaps, hi hats, string plucks), mild distortion when cranked all the way up (more noticeable in the highs)
   
  EL8201:
  nice and laid back, good bass extension to ~30Hz, midrange comes forward, slight dip in the lower highs, highs slightly pronounced (hi hats), seems to be a quieter combination. 
   
   
   
Buffers with opamp AD8565
  (general impression of AD8656 as opamp - emphasized lows and highs, somewhat narrower stage but very "in your face" sound, loads of power but finicky about how it's handled, slight graininess at higher volumes (but you're near earbleed levels at that point anyways))
   
  AD8616:
  pretty similar to the reverse config (opamp AD8616, buffers AD8656), highs are much more pronounced and shimmer nicely, lows seem a bit thinner, still has distortion which starts a tiny bit earlier but is less egregious
   
  LMH6643:
  very nice balance of highs and lows, really love the sound... but it can't handle power and sound gets grainy and warbly when you turn it up 60%
   
  dummies:
  nice rumble in the bass, rather sharp highs, midrange is ok but nothing outstanding, still distorts at high volumes, and even at medium high volumes vocals sometimes sound a bit off, but instruments and electronic sounds are good
   
  I don't have enough AD8656 chips to use as both opamp and buffers, but from some reading here it sounds like they handle the power quite well and don't distort/hiss.
   
   
   
Buffers with opamp LMH6643
   
  dummies:
  airier, slightly veiled and relaxed sound, lower power compared to 8656 or 8616 as opamps, slight "concert hall" feel (reverb) adds to spaciousness, mids (vocals) are very forward, midhighs are crisp but feel a bit dry and start to roll off slightly, low volume imbalance (to the right)
   
  AD8616:
  slightly more pronounced "concert hall" effect, more energy, not as relaxed, clarity in mids and highs improved a bit with some added shimmer, no roll off in the highs though still a bit dry, bass feels about the same, not as smooth as the reverse combo of opamp 8616 with 6643 buffers but more detailed overall
   
   
Buffers with opamp AD4841-2
   
  AD8616:
  whoa bright sound (noticeably moreso than any others so far), emphasized and very detailed highs, mid highs tiny bit grainy, fatiguing to my ears, feel like it would be good for studio work though
   
   
   
Buffers with 2:1 opamp TLE2141
   
  EL8201:
  a touch of airiness (and maybe reverb?), more on the upper end
 richer texture
 but a *tiny* bit of graininess with some headphones
 lots of power and holds it together without clipping or distorting
 bit of a spike on a sub bass response
 bit of a tube like sound
   
  LHM6643:
  brighter than with EL8201
 encoding graininess sounds really bad
 strong highs and lows
 doesn't hold the power quite as well as EL8201
   
  AD8656:
  complex passages with mixed highs and lows sound kinda weird, veiled
   
  AD8616
  nice mids, a bit more forward, but slight graininess at the peaks
   
   
   
   
   
Buffers with opamp AD8599 
   
  EL8201:
  louder than TLE2141, but slightly distorted at max
 bright sound
 midhighs (female vocal range) have a tiny bit of graininess and sibilance
   
  LHM6643:
  still bright
 faint background hiss? don't hear this with any other combination
 bass start to distort badly at medium-high volumes
   
   
   
Buffers with opamp OPA2227p 
  generally a more relaxed sound
   
  EL8201:
  immediately engaging yet laid back sound
 a touch of resonance which gives a great sense of live staging
 strong bass extension down to 16Hz
 lots of power, very loud
*my current favourite*
   
  LHM6643:
  airier, more expansive staging (music feels like it comes from above)
 a barely noticeable hint of sibilance
 sub bass seems to roll off a little sooner than EL8201
 a little harsher on encoding graininess
   
  AD8616:
  mids more forward
  very nice on vocal and acoustic
  good power
  but it doesn't have the right impact for rock
  bass extension not as good as EL8201
   
   
Buffers with opamp LT1358

   
  LHM6643:
  crisp and articulate
 bass a bit thin
 instrumentals come across better than vocals
   
  EL8201:
  a bit more relaxed
 fuller bass compared to LMH6643
   
   
Buffers with opamp RC4560

  this is a cheap opamp, very low voltage requirements making it popular for some cmoys
  general sound: good midbass, mids slightly recessed
   
  RC4560:
  not compatible, very bad static at anything above very low listening levels
   
  EL8201:
  slightly cloudy feeling, nothing special
   
  AD8656:
  brings back some of the mids, though still a bit congested, bit of sibilance


----------



## vkvedam

Hi D10 Veterans,
   
  Which AD8616 to get? I've come across AD8616, AD8616-AR, AD8616-ARM and AD8616-ARZ.
   
  Cheers...


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





vkvedam said:


> Hi D10 Veterans,
> 
> Which AD8616 to get? I've come across AD8616, AD8616-AR, AD8616-ARM and AD8616-ARZ.
> 
> Cheers...


 
  It doesn't matter...they all sound exactly the same! 
  Ron


----------



## madwolf

The AD8616 does not comes in DIL (Dual in Line package). So I doubt you could buy that, most likely an oversight by the seller's website or omission of sub fix.
   
  AD8616-AR an AD8616-ARZ are SOIC you need a Brown-Dog adaptor or you need to solder it in a Turn Pin 8 IC Socket holders
  Most likely you get this
   
  AD8616-ARM is an MSOP package (extremely small), avoid this, Unless you are looking to test/challenge your soldering skill.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





vkvedam said:


> Hi D10 Veterans,
> 
> Which AD8616 to get? I've come across AD8616, AD8616-AR, AD8616-ARM and AD8616-ARZ.
> 
> Cheers...


----------



## vkvedam

Thanks for the replies Ron and madwolf.


----------



## jamato8

I like the AD8616 more than the AD8656. The 8616, to my ear, is more refined and throws a larger and more transparent soundstage.


----------



## Armaegis

For buffers, I find myself preferring the 8656 over the 8616 for movies and rock. The 8656 feels like it delivers a more "in your face" kind of sound. I really like the 8616 as opamp however.


----------



## jamato8

Yes the 8656 can make a good buffer. I agree that the 8656 is more in your face but I normally don't like this, preferring a bit of distance. It is all good. Nice to have choices though.


----------



## Armaegis

Clearly, the obvious choice is to just buy them all and give 'em a try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Hiflight had suggested opamp 8616 with dummy buffers, but I didn't like that one at all. It just felt like it was missing something. My current favourite is with the 6643 buffers. I wonder what it would be like with the 8616 as buffers & opamp, but alas I only have 2 chips to go around.


----------



## aqsw

I was wondering if I ordered an Itouch dock - female 3.5mm, and a male 3.5mm -mini usb, could I use these items to bypass the itouch dac and use the dc10 dac and amplifier?
   
  Also, Any suggestions why I cannot listen to itunes on my HP laptop(all 4 usb ports)with usb 2.0 - usb mini with the dc10, as I get crackling during all the songs, but I can use my LG netbook and it works perfectly with the exact same setup.
   
  Thanks in advance,
  Jim (A real nooB)


----------



## Armaegis

Cool, another Winnipegger (who also has a D10!).
   
  I do not believe there is any way to bypass the ipod dac. The best you can do is get a lineout connector and connect that to the amp section of the D10. The only portable players that let you use an external DAC are the old irivers that have optical out.
   
  When you have the D10 plugged in to your HP, do you get sound + static, or just static? If it's just static, it's possible the drivers didn't auto-install, or more likely you have to select the device from your sound control panel (bottom right corner of the screen, right click on the volume icon, go to "playback devices" and select "USB Audio CODEC" as your default sound device).


----------



## Armaegis

Is there a D10 opamp rolling journal anywhere? This massive thread is great for asking questions, but very difficult to search when looking for opinions on various opamps and buffers.
   
  I've been accumulating my impressions in post #3984 two pages back as a reference for myself. I was thinking of starting a new thread with my impressions, and hoping other people would add their own experiences (and maybe just update their first posts, which would make things cleaner and easier to read).
   
  I'm also curious as to whether people agree/disagree with my observations.


----------



## aqsw

Hi, I get sound and static.When doing your instructions, the playback devices I get are:
  1- Digital output device(hdmi)
  2-Speakers and dual headphones (Checked)
  3-Independent dual headphones
  4-SPDIF(digital output via hp dock)
   
  Any ideas?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Armaegis

Hmm, none of those sound like the D10. Here's the generic solution:
  - shut down everything, reboot laptop
  - plug in the D10 (it should auto install drivers the first time you plug it in; it this doesn't/never happens, then there's a problem)
  - set the D10 as your default device (some machines to this automatically, others don't)
  - start itunes
   
  As a plug'n'play device, this *should* get your D10 working.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Is there a D10 opamp rolling journal anywhere? This massive thread is great for asking questions, but very difficult to search when looking for opinions on various opamps and buffers.
> 
> I've been accumulating my impressions in post #3984 two pages back as a reference for myself. I was thinking of starting a new thread with my impressions, and hoping other people would add their own experiences (and maybe just update their first posts, which would make things cleaner and easier to read).
> 
> I'm also curious as to whether people agree/disagree with my observations.


 

 Look on page 33 of this thread for some of my comments. 
  Ron


----------



## Armaegis

Can you give me a post #? I probably have different page display settings and didn't find anything relevant on p.33.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> I do not believe there is any way to bypass the ipod dac. The best you can do is get a lineout connector and connect that to the amp section of the D10. The only portable players that let you use an external DAC are the old irivers that have optical out.


 

 There actually is, the iWadia can pull the digital data straight out of an iPod, then you would need a DAC/AMP to process the signal. Sadly though, it's not cheap.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> There actually is, the iWadia can pull the digital data straight out of an iPod, then you would need a DAC/AMP to process the signal. Sadly though, it's not cheap.


 

 And not portable.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> And not portable.


 

 True dat!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Cool, another Winnipegger (who also has a D10!).
> 
> I do not believe there is any way to bypass the ipod dac. The best you can do is get a lineout connector and connect that to the amp section of the D10. The only portable players that let you use an external DAC are the old irivers that have optical out.
> 
> When you have the D10 plugged in to your HP, do you get sound + static, or just static? If it's just static, it's possible the drivers didn't auto-install, or more likely you have to select the device from your sound control panel (bottom right corner of the screen, right click on the volume icon, go to "playback devices" and select "USB Audio CODEC" as your default sound device).


 
Submit
 The iRivers iHP-120/140 can also be modified for coax out to feed the D10's coax instead of optical.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I know this has been covered in many reviews of the D10, many of which I have read, but I was recently pretty shocked to discover how much better my D10 with topkit sounds through my recently acquired Onkyo ND-S1 (using IE8) compared to through the D10's usb input.
   
  After using D10 through usb mostly for almost a year (starting out in the hobby and hadn't bought any other transports until now), I felt like I traded it in and bought a DAC costing a couple hundred dollars more when I got the ND-S1. Also, my D10 sounds nearly as good through the Onkyo usb to spdif converter as it does through the iPod > Onkyo > optical. It must have some significant anti-jitter capability to make this much of a difference. Either that or the D10 usb is flat out bad.
   
  Just wanted to share my experience in case any other newer members had been using D10 primarily through USB for awhile. 
   
  Also, just want to squeeze in a quick thanks to Ron. Damn your topkit is nice. Since D10 and IE8 have been my first setup and since I have literally listened to it every single day since I got it almost a year ago, the value that the topkit has added for me is pretty much unmeasurable. Again, a sincere thanks. Also, a thanks to Larry for turning me on to the setup and to the topkit. Its been an awesome value. Thanks again!
   
  -Dave


----------



## Armaegis

Okay, so the opamp is what takes the signal from the DAC and amplifies it. What do the buffers do?
   
  I know in a generic sense, they prevent direct connection from the opamp to the output (which is why the dummies have resistors, from my limited understanding). But do they provide additional amplification (or the opposite, or none at all)?
   
  From my experimenting so far, it feels as though the the chips when used as buffers affect the sound signature in a slightly lesser way than when they are used as opamps.


----------



## Armaegis

Another random question to throw out there: what happens if you put in a chip upside down?


----------



## hvu

x2
  I think a fellow head-fier did that once and his started smoking if my memory serves me right.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Another random question to throw out there: what happens if you put in a chip upside down?


 

 Hard to say, it depends upon the chip. I have fried chips and some where fine, depending upon which one and what amp.


----------



## kaka2003

For changing opamp and buffer at D10, any suggestion for this combo??
   
  PC->D10->ATH-A2000X?
   
  When I am outdoor, I will use IPC2009->Jenson cable LO->D10 (ADA4841-2+AD8656 x 2)->UM3X, the sound is very lovely~(may be for me only)


----------



## tnmike1

Quote: 





kaka2003 said:


> For changing opamp and buffer at D10, any suggestion for this combo??
> 
> PC->D10->ATH-A2000X?
> 
> When I am outdoor, I will use IPC2009->Jenson cable LO->D10 (ADA4841-2+AD8656 x 2)->UM3X, the sound is very lovely~(may be for me only)


 

 Have the same combo of opamps with the UM3X.   Buy the Topkit.  Cost ya about $25 or so and the difference in sound and soundstage is HUGE.


----------



## tohid100

hi
  please help me because i am new to hi-fi field.
  i have a sennheiser hd650 and am considering to buy a dac/headphone amp.
  is ibasso d10  proper for my headphones?
  if not, can i make it suitable by changing the opamp?
  then,what opamp should i use?
   
  thanks


----------



## hvu

The D10 will power the HD650 just fine but not to it true potential. Changing out opamps would give it a very slight boost of power and will change the sound but still not enough to power the HD650 properly. The biggest in boost I saw in power was upgrading to blackgate caps. While it is still a portable amp and it can only go so far with the HD650 I would still say it is a great amp to pair with the HD650 if you like tweaking the sound with opamps and caps.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





tohid100 said:


> hi
> please help me because i am new to hi-fi field.
> i have a sennheiser hd650 and am considering to buy a dac/headphone amp.
> is ibasso d10  proper for my headphones?
> ...


 
  If you want to stay portable, you might consider the iBasso PB1 balanced amp with matching DAC.  It has considerably more power than the D10 and will easily drive your 650s, either balanced or SE.   The DAC is very similar to the build-in DAC of the D10, according to iBasso.  It will accept USB, optical, and coax.  It provides a balanced output to the PB1.  
   
  Cost will be in the ballpark of a D10 with upgraded opamps.


----------



## cybertec69

My IBasso is on it's way, I am pretty new to this head-fi stuff "no clue what an opamp is", this Amp/DAC combo, will mostly be used with my Ipod touch and HTC Incredible "smart phone",  and my Klipsch Cutom-3 ear buds, my AKG K702's are mostly used pluged in directly to my receivers headphone jack, Pioneer SC-07 receiver/amp,  and Integra DTC- 9.8 prepro powered by an Outlaw 7x200watt Amplifier.


----------



## HiFlight

Don't worry about the technical opamp stuff...just enjoy your new amp.  It sounds very good stock.  At some point down the road, you may want to explore some other configurations, but no need to get in a rush.


----------



## cybertec69

Thanks for the reply, it's on the UPS truck as I type this, send out last Friday from China and here today, now that is fast. By the way, what is opamp, is that some kind of chips adding removing thing on the board, buffers and such.


----------



## HiFlight

Basically, an opamp is a complete pre-amplifier and amplifier circuit on a tiny chip.  They often have over 100 transistors as well as many resistors and capacitors build into this tiny circuit.  In the iBasso amplifiers, the Left/Right opamp and buffers (also opamps) are mounted on adapters and fit into sockets on the main circuit board.  This allows one to change opamps in order to slightly change the audio characteristics of the amplifer to suit ones personal tastes. 
   
  It is sort of like changing tubes in an old TV.  Not all opamps work equally well.  Some don't work at all in the D10 and other work superbly.  To sort out which is which is the challenge.


----------



## cybertec69

Thanks HiFlight, now I have a better understanding of what people are talking about in here in these forums, just sampled it a bit on my Ipod Touch and Klipsch Custom-3 ear buds, and it makes a nice difference, for the two minutes I tried it, am at work right now, more testing when I get home. By the way, I am not expecting miracles.Where do you get these opamps from.
  
  Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Basically, an opamp is a complete pre-amplifier and amplifier circuit on a tiny chip.  They often have over 100 transistors as well as many resistors and capacitors build into this tiny circuit.  In the iBasso amplifiers, the Left/Right opamp and buffers (also opamps) are mounted on adapters and fit into sockets on the main circuit board.  This allows one to change opamps in order to slightly change the audio characteristics of the amplifer to suit ones personal tastes.
> 
> It is sort of like changing tubes in an old TV.  Not all opamps work equally well.  Some don't work at all in the D10 and other work superbly.  To sort out which is which is the challenge.


----------



## cybertec69

Well here is my short impression of this little marvel, OMG, this thing has brought life to my Klipsch Custom-3 ear buds, and I am running it through my HTC Incredible smart phone "not the best mp3 player, it is a phone first and foremost"" playing  lossless files, more to come once I try it with my Ipod Touch and my AKG K702's. One thing I noticed, the optical cable that ships with the unit is not your standard optical cable, what kind of cable is it.


----------



## tnmike1

might be a stupid question, but here goes: what are the two little leather bags for?????  Is the larger one to carry the iBasso??  If so, what is the smaller one for?????


----------



## immtbiker

When brainstorming, no idea (or question) is a stupid one. 
   
  Now, back to your original question...the bigger bag is made to hold the smaller bag,
  and so on


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





immtbiker said:


> When brainstorming, no idea (or question) is a stupid one.
> 
> Now, back to your original question...the bigger bag is made to hold the smaller bag,
> and so on


 

 I have to pay by the mb here so it would be appreciated that this thread be kept on the serious note intended. It is to assist, to help and further the enjoyment of the D10.  :^)
   
  The larger bag is for the D10, the smaller, to hold any ideas that crop up, as you so aptly put it from "brainstorming". Now as to the later use of those brainstormed ideas, well as they foment the brain small truths may or may not emerge. As to the latter, it can be evidenced that the idea was used in the incorrect thread and as to the former, the evidence be true. So I postulate and prescribe.


----------



## tnmike1

OK thanks guys.  I was in fact using the larger bag to carry the D10; the smaller I had attached to my Doberman's collar with small poop bags in it.  If he did his business in someone's lawn, I just grabbed a little baggie from the small leather bag and picked it up.
   
  Knew it wasn't for an amp 'cause even my Tomahawk wouldn't fit in it.  As for my ideas, they were too large to be contained in the smaller bag.  Remember guys, sometimes bigger IS better


----------



## immtbiker

Wow John, if you pay by the MB, then with your posting history and helpful and insightful threads,
  You definitely need to switch to a better plan


----------



## jamato8

Here in Pohnpei, Micronesia I have been paying by the mb. I hope to get hooked up to DSL with a monthly fee. Most of the time I was back in California having arrived here 2 weeks ago.


----------



## wuwhere

I just got an M2Tech Hiface to feed the D10 through coax (its the first time I used the D10's coax input) from my laptop. Then aux out to a TTVJ hybrid. Its smooth and warm listening to a pair of ER4S.


----------



## immtbiker

It's definitely not the headphones because the Ety's are anything but smooth and warm.


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> I just got an M2Tech Hiface to feed the D10 through coax (its the first time I used the D10's coax input) from my laptop. Then aux out to a TTVJ hybrid. Its smooth and warm listening to a pair of ER4S.


 

 I never heard the TTVJ hybrid but I use the same as you - MacBook --> M2Tech --> D10 (--> Sometimes P-51) --> ER-4S and yes I can hardly find a better portable setup.
   
  With the stock OPamps in the D10 I think it is a great match for ER-4S and even though the ER-4S are not warm they do get weight and a full body to the sound which makes them sound smooth and warm.


----------



## x3dnd3x

Hello .
   
  I recently got the D10 and would need some clarification if that's possible . 
   
  1) Which one are the opamps ?
   
  2) What are the 2 blue colored thing directly below of AD708 ? What would happen if i were to remove 2 of them ?
   
  3) If let's say the blue colored ones are the opamps and i want to do some rolling , i would have to get 2 opamps instead of 1 ?
   
  Thanks for the help .


----------



## tnmike1

Quote: 





rasmushorn said:


> I never heard the TTVJ hybrid but I use the same as you - MacBook --> M2Tech --> D10 (--> Sometimes P-51) --> ER-4S and yes I can hardly find a better portable setup.
> 
> With the stock OPamps in the D10 I think it is a great match for ER-4S and even though the ER-4S are not warm they do get weight and a full body to the sound which makes them sound smooth and warm.


 

 May be my imagination, but when I switched to a copper-wired LOD using my Etys, they seemed to gain some warmth and lose some of the crystalline sharpness or edginess.  Definitely noticed a difference with Apuresound cable on the Etys--the Apuresound cableis all copper.  Just some food for thought.
   
  BTW JOhn--what doyou mean "paying by the mb??"  What's the "mb??


----------



## rasmushorn

Even though ER-4S is not a warm sounding headphone in itself - it is definitely posible to make it sound a lot warmer because it so easily reacts to cables and amplifiers. But it is a matter of personal definition whether it sounds warm compared to a lot of other phones.


----------



## tnmike1

absolutely agree with Rasmushorn.  Love them with classical and big symphonies.  That's when I'll use something other than copper.  But for small-group jazz or female jazz volcalists, that's when the copper cabling comes out.  But for all-round great 'phones, always use my UM3X


----------



## wuwhere

Is the coax input of the D10 50 or 75 ohms?


----------



## jamato8

I would imagine it is 75 ohms, most are.


----------



## wuwhere

Well I just googled it and the S-PDIF physical spec states a 75Ohms impedance on coax.


----------



## mrarroyo

Coax are 75 ohms.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





mrarroyo said:


> Coax are 75 ohms.


 

 Nope. There are 50 and 75 Ohms coax. Even Agilent makes 50 and 75 Ohms Spectrum Analyzers that I've used for coax application in a coax network like a cable plant. I think there is a difference of 7dBmV. But I could be wrong.


----------



## mrarroyo

Coax as intended for the gear we use for audio is 75 db. The information below is from Wikipedia.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> Significance of impedance The best coaxial cable impedances in high-power, high-voltage, and low-attenuation applications were experimentally determined in 1929 at Bell Laboratories to be 30, 60, and 77 Ω respectively. For an air dielectric coaxial cable with a diameter of 10 mm the attenuation is lowest at 77 ohms when calculated for 10 GHz.[1] The curve showing the power handling maxima at 30 ohms can be found here:[2]
> 
> CATV systems were one of the first applications for very large quantities of coaxial cable. CATV is typically using such low levels of RF power that power handling and high voltage breakdown characteristics were totally unimportant when compared to attenuation. Moreover, many CATV headends used 300 ohm folded dipole antennas to receive off the air TV signals. 75 ohm coax made a nice 4:1 balun transformer for these antennas as well as presented a nice attenuation specification. But this is a bit of a red herring: when normal dielectrics are added to the equation the best loss impedance drops down to values between 64 and 52 ohms. Details and a graph showing this effect can be found here:[3][_citation needed_] 30 Ω cable is more difficult to manufacture due to the much larger center conductor and the stiffness and weight it adds.
> 
> ...


----------



## twylight

Just wanted to say Ibasso serviced my D10 very fast - kudos!


----------



## Armaegis

Phew, my opamp impressions post (p266#3984) is starting to get kinda long. I recently got a bunch more opamps from Ron and have been experimenting. Some quick notes:
   
  - the latest topkit (TLE2141/EL8201) feels slightly tubey and airy
  - EL8201 as buffers takes everything I like about LMH6643 and does it better (smoother and more relaxed)
  - AD8599 as opamp is really bright
  - OPA 2227p as opamp just grabbed me right at the start
  - LT 3158 as opamp made me feel like I was listening to an AKG through my Shures


----------



## HiFlight

OPA2227 + EL8201 has always been a nice-sounding combination, especially with phones or IEMs that tend to be lighter in the bass octaves.  This combination might, however,  be too dark for bassy-heavy phones.


----------



## Armaegis

My tastes are definitely leaning towards the dark side of things (I'm sure there's a Star Wars joke in here somewhere). AD4841 and AD8599 were almost unlistenable for me.


----------



## Punkfans

thought I might just post it here, hope it's not off topic
   
  I got mine about 2 weeks ago, so far I've experienced some problem when using it as a DAC via USB, I'm using WASAPI and DS for output. From time to time, I heard sizzle when using WASAPI, sometimes with DS as well. It just got worse and worse then eventually stopped working. I had to change to another track or restart foobar.
   
  In the worst case, I can saw from the "playback devices" management window that it was occupied, the volume bar was moving up and down, but nothing really was working.  I had to unplug it then replug. 
   
  this only happened when using it as a DAC, while connected via AUX, no problem at all.
  I'm using windows 7 ultimate 64bit, AMD cpu, 4 gb ram, and yes, I have disable the Aero themes. I hope mine is not defected,  so what am I missing? any ideas?


----------



## Armaegis

Does anyone know if the opamps we use for the D10 are all compatible with the Travagans Red speaker/headphone amp? I've read in headphoneaddict's review of the Travagans that he used the AD743, but how about some others?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Does anyone know if the opamps we use for the D10 are all compatible with the Travagans Red speaker/headphone amp? I've read in headphoneaddict's review of the Travagans that he used the AD743, but how about some others?


 

 Many of the same opamps will work.  Some that worked in the D10 didn't work in the Travagans Red and I noted them in my Red review.  Remember that the AD743 are two single channel opamps on a 2:1 adapter, and it needs to be a very small 2:1 adapter for the D10 (HiFlight has perfected the size in his opamp kits).  While the OPA627 work very well on a 2:1 adapter in the Travagans Red, the D10 doesn't give them enough power to sound good in that role.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Does anyone know if the opamps we use for the D10 are all compatible with the Travagans Red speaker/headphone amp? I've read in headphoneaddict's review of the Travagans that he used the AD743, but how about some others?


 

 All of the D10 Topkit LR modules can be used in the Travagans Red, but do not use the EL8201, as it cannot tolerate the supply voltage used in the Red.


----------



## Armaegis

If I look up the opamp specs online, which values should I looking at to determine compatibility?


----------



## antyr

I just ordered some 6,3V 220uF BlackGate caps and found an experienced DIYer near to me who will do the soldering. My question is: Do the BGs HAVE to be bypassed in order to make a big change or is it just another tweak to install them in "bypassed mode"?
   
  Do the bypass caps influence the sound signature as much as the BG caps in the signal path themselves? What bypass caps do you suggest if so?
   
  And to HiFlights topkit: Would you think that it is a good couple for my Beyerdynamic DT880 250Ohm?
   
  Cheers,
   
  antyr
   
   
  PS: For those who want to order BG caps: THLaudio in Taiwan is selling some for a reasonable price. Just ask at info@thlaudio.com


----------



## jamato8

If Black Gates are bypassed it is better to do it with another BG. They play well with each other but not with others. The 220uf is a nice cap. I would just go with it as there is only so much room and they do good with themselves. The 22uf is good but again, there is only so much room.


----------



## slickooz

How is the D10 with ultimate ears tf-10?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> How is the D10 with ultimate ears tf-10?


 

 I thought it was a good pairing and works better than my D4 with the TF10 to fill in the mids and keep the highs smooth.


----------



## qusp

I dont know that I would consider the THL BG price 'reasonable' I now dont think they are worth the money and prefer to use silmic II bypassed with PPS films. actually it is quite rare and really IMO impossible to have a 75ohms RCA coax, there are many that advertise it, but it cannot be so, the shape and proportions of the RCA format do not allow a 75R characteristic impedance. BNC coax sure, but RCA no. indeed there is 50 and 75 ohms BNC coax, mostly 50R is used for data, but not exclusively. as long as correct and consistent cable, connectors and termination resistors are used on each one, there should be no difference in performance. also, once the coax is terminated in the dac it should continue its course as 50 ohms, internally 50 ohms is the standard.


----------



## slickooz

How does this compare with other amps? I read mix results for tf-10 and arrow. I'm also using an ipod touch, I know its not the best player but I like its interface. Want something that will sync nice with my tf-10 and my ipod. Will the aux cable that comes with it be a good pair with the ipod or should I get an lod? Thanks for helping.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> How does this compare with other amps? I read mix results for tf-10 and arrow. I'm also using an ipod touch, I know its not the best player but I like its interface. Want something that will sync nice with my tf-10 and my ipod. Will the aux cable that comes with it be a good pair with the ipod or should I get an lod? Thanks for helping.


 

 For almost a year the D10 was #1 on my list in my big DAC/amp review thread, moved down by the D4 with upgraded opamps.  But, with my TF10 I think the D10 sounds a little more balanced, warm and smooth.  The best amp for most IEM may not be the best with ALL IEM, because some amps pair with some IEM better.  We call it synergy.
   
  The stock D10 sounds just like an RSA Predator but with a more detailed and spacious DAC.  This pairs well with the TF10 which work well with the more forward mds and smooth highs of this amp.  With upgraded opamps from HiFlgiht the D10 sounds like a cross between the Predator and the P-51, and it's even better in that it's more open and spacious sounding without becoming recessed.  The D4 with stock opamps sounds like a cross between a Predator and Pico, and the TF10 sound a little more recessed in the mids and bright in the highs.  But with upgraded opamps from HiFlight it sounds just like a P-51 clone, but this still didn't sound best with the TF10, although it is best with most of my other IEM.  I guess I forgot to mention that the TF10 are not my favorite IEM, and I think they are more picky about what amp I pair them with.
   
  I would use an LOD with the Touch to feed the D10.  My daughter's 2G Touch's headphone amp sounded a little bright and grainy driving IEM, but the line out dock is not bad sounding with a good amp.  If you don't mind giving up a little detail and performance, the T3 is also a good match for the TF10.  At first I thought it sounded a little too forward, but I grew to like it.  Not as much as the D10 though.


----------



## slickooz

Thanks Headphoneaddict. Trying to find a good amp to carry around under 300. Right now I'm using custom tf-10, I like how they sound and wanted something that can make it sound better. And don't want to spend more on another pair. Just want a nice amp to pair with it under 300 I can use it at home and carry it on the go.
   
  edit.
  Which one is better T3 or T3D.  If I went with the D10 and upgrade opamp will it provide a better listening experience? and how much would that cost? I been busy with work this summer and had the chance to save some money now I want to get a nice amp. I listen to everything and want good mid and highs not much of a bass head.


----------



## jamato8

I prefer the T3 to the T3d. the T3D has a bit of an edge on the highs and I like the smoother sound of the T3. I find the T3 one of the best ultra small amps around and like the open and transparent sound. This is with phones that can be powered properly with it.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> Thanks Headphoneaddict. Trying to find a good amp to carry around under 300. Right now I'm using custom tf-10, I like how they sound and wanted something that can make it sound better. And don't want to spend more on another pair. Just want a nice amp to pair with it under 300 I can use it at home and carry it on the go.
> 
> edit.
> Which one is better T3 or T3D.  If I went with the D10 and upgrade opamp will it provide a better listening experience? and how much would that cost? I been busy with work this summer and had the chance to save some money now I want to get a nice amp. I listen to everything and want good mid and highs not much of a bass head.


 

 See jamato8's post as I haven't heard the T3D.  I did say in my post above that the T3 wasn't as enjoyable as the D10, but it's still a good amp in a small package.  I have a mini-review posted here:  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/458844/mini-review-ibasso-t3-portable-amp


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I prefer the T3 to the T3d. the T3D has a bit of an edge on the highs and I like the smoother sound of the T3. I find the T3 one of the best ultra small amps around and like the open and transparent sound. This is with phones that can be powered properly with it.


 

 X2, the T3 fools most when they see its size and price. Most can not believe how good it sounds.


----------



## slickooz

Is the d10 worth it? The D10 I can use it to connect to my computer to get better audio for music and movies? I usually have the ipod with me where ever I go. I'm trying to buy a used T4, hoping he didn't sell it yet.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> Is the d10 worth it? The D10 I can use it to connect to my computer to get better audio for music and movies? I usually have the ipod with me where ever I go. I'm trying to buy a used T4, hoping he didn't sell it yet.


 

 Yes, you can use the D10 to connect to your computer via USB.  You can also do the same with the D4.  The T4 cannot be used directly from your computer as it lacks a DAC, but would pair OK with your iPod, however the D10, while larger, would be a more versatile choice.


----------



## slickooz

Thank you hiflight. Going see if I can get the t4 used for 60. Never got an amp before for my ipod and tf-10. Not sure if I can tell the difference, if there is a huge improvement. I will look into better amps.T3 and T4 is there a huge difference?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

slickooz said:


> Thank you hiflight. Going see if I can get the t4 used for 60. Never got an amp before for my ipod and tf-10. Not sure if I can tell the difference, if there is a huge improvement. I will look into better amps.T3 and T4 is there a huge difference?







 I would only get the T3.


----------



## slickooz

Thanks. Having a hard time finding a used T3. Going still be looking.


----------



## slickooz

How much do used d10 go for? There one for sale for 200, but he did not mention condition or provide any pic. And is the D10 big? or is it still portable with ipod touch?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> How much do used d10 go for? There one for sale for 200, but he did not mention condition or provide any pic. And is the D10 big? or is it still portable with ipod touch?


 

 That's a really good price, even better if a topkit is included.


----------



## Armaegis

That's a good price assuming all the accessories are still there. A very good price if it has a topkit installed. The exact dimensions are on the ibasso website, but it's approximately 1x2x4". It's certainly portable, but I consider it a bit clunky now that we have tiny options like the Pico slim, T3/T4, etc.


----------



## wuwhere

^^Definitely a brick compared to my Arrow.


----------



## slickooz

Thanks, learned a lot reading these post. Right now there is D10 with topkit for 220 about 500 hours used. Using the D10 as a Dac will it be a huge improvement compare to the onboard sound card? Right now I'm trying to decide if I should buy D10 or wait and see if there are T3 on sale. I do prefer it being more portable.
   
  $220 for used D10 with topkit good deal? I recently bought a 1500 computer so money is tight.
  Also what LOD would you recommend?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> Thanks, learned a lot reading these post. Right now there is D10 with topkit for 220 about 500 hours used. Using the D10 as a Dac will it be a huge improvement compare to the onboard sound card? Right now I'm trying to decide if I should buy D10 or wait and see if there are T3 on sale. I do prefer it being more portable.
> 
> $220 for used D10 with topkit good deal? I recently bought a 1500 computer so money is tight.
> Also what LOD would you recommend?


 

 I think that is a good deal, I'm guessing you'd spend $350 or more for one new shipped including a HiFlight topkit.  The DAC alone is pretty darn close to the Headroom Micro DAC that I have which costs a lot more.


----------



## slickooz

Is it hard installing the topkit? This will be my first amp, I don't know anything about changing parts.
   
  Not having the original opamp going be a problem? What are they used for? Will the stock one sound good? If I was to buy a used top kit, do I need some of the original opamp parts?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> Is it hard installing the topkit? This will be my first amp, I don't know anything about changing parts.
> 
> Not having the original opamp going be a problem? What are they used for? Will the stock one sound good? If I was to buy a used top kit, do I need some of the original opamp parts?


 

 The stock op-sounds good, I would suggest that if you buy the D10 new you use it for a while to learn its sound signature. Burn-in is IMO important and you should log a good 250-300 hours of burn-in before doing any extensive comparison. As far as replacing the op-amps it is fairly simple, enclosed you will find a picture of the top of the board with the op-amps. Basically you pay attention to the number 1 pin (square "dot") you  pull it  up and in its place goes the replacement (same orientation of the number 1 pin).


----------



## slickooz

Thank you. Right now I'm trying to decide which d10 to buy.
   
  Buying a used D10 I'm worried that the battery wont hold charge. Is there a way I can get replacement battery and is it expensive?


----------



## wolfen68

Quote: 





slickooz said:


> Thank you. Right now I'm trying to decide which d10 to buy.
> 
> Buying a used D10 I'm worried that the battery wont hold charge. Is there a way I can get replacement battery and is it expensive?


 


 The D10's really haven't been around long enough for you to worry about a trashed battery (unless someone really abused it).  With that said, ibasso has stated that a replacement battery can be purchased from them while they have them available.


----------



## slickooz

Yeah I thought about getting an amp with replaceable V6 batteries, because of this problem. Thanks for clearing it up.


----------



## dustyex99

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> For almost a year the D10 was #1 on my list in my big DAC/amp review thread, moved down by the D4 with upgraded opamps.  But, with my TF10 I think the D10 sounds a little more balanced, warm and smooth.  The best amp for most IEM may not be the best with ALL IEM, because some amps pair with some IEM better.  We call it synergy.
> 
> The stock D10 sounds just like an RSA Predator but with a more detailed and spacious DAC.  This pairs well with the TF10 which work well with the more forward mds and smooth highs of this amp.  With upgraded opamps from HiFlgiht the D10 sounds like a cross between the Predator and the P-51, and it's even better in that it's more open and spacious sounding without becoming recessed.  The D4 with stock opamps sounds like a cross between a Predator and Pico, and the TF10 sound a little more recessed in the mids and bright in the highs.  But with upgraded opamps from HiFlight it sounds just like a P-51 clone, but this still didn't sound best with the TF10, although it is best with most of my other IEM.  I guess I forgot to mention that the TF10 are not my favorite IEM, and I think they are more picky about what amp I pair them with.
> 
> I would use an LOD with the Touch to feed the D10.  My daughter's 2G Touch's headphone amp sounded a little bright and grainy driving IEM, but the line out dock is not bad sounding with a good amp.  If you don't mind giving up a little detail and performance, the T3 is also a good match for the TF10.  At first I thought it sounded a little too forward, but I grew to like it.  Not as much as the D10 though.


 
   
  Sorry for quoting old post!

 I just picked up a used D10...(without audition beforehand)
  Good to hear that it has better synergy with TF10 than D4 which i almost wanted to buy!
  With TF10, it really brought out the sound I was looking forward to after getting my TF10! (Poor DAP and sound card)
  Even those older recording like air supply, it really given it a new life to it, something I never heard before! (Sorry for the excitement!)
   
  I thought of trying to play with the OPAMPs because even i am enjoying the stock sound but i find that i wish that there could have wider soundstage! I will hope there will be SQ or Sound Sig improvement!
  But I not very sure which OPAMP to select as I have no benchmark to compare with the stock chips!
   
  I am currently using it as a USB DAC/AMP through my laptop with lossless file but the previous owner never make use of dac before.
   
  Hope you, TS or anyone else can give me some tips! A newbie to the audio scene!
   
  Thanks!


----------



## the diode

The D10 was my first amp. I like it quite a lot but hope to learn more about rolling the opamps and finding a sound signature I like the best.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *dustyex99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Sorry for quoting old post!
> 
> ...


 

 I bought my opamps from HiFlight here on head-fi.  I think I am using the TLE2141 class-A biased opamps with EL8201 buffers.  This still works well with TF10Pro while offering a more open soundstage.  I have not felt a need to go back to the stock opamps since the upgrade.


----------



## aqsw

Picked up an iriver h120 today on amazon. He says in perfect condition, about 50 hours on it. Now to buy an optical cable!!


----------



## wolfen68

Quote: 





aqsw said:


> Picked up an iriver h120 today on amazon. He says in perfect condition, about 50 hours on it. Now to buy an optical cable!!


 


 I think I saw that one....congrats!  There's no doubt there are less available than there used to be.  The H140's are really getting hard to find.


----------



## slickooz

I was going buy d10 for 220. But he stop responding, someone pm me about my wtb thread and I just bought t3. Will this work well with my tf-10? or will I be looking to upgrade soon? I will be using custom tf-10 with t3/lod from fiio and ipod touch.


----------



## bakhtiar

Does anyone tried to replace the main DAC, with Wolfson WM8742 ? 
   
  http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/dacs/WM8742/


> The WM8742 is available in a convenient 28-SSOP package, and is pin compatible with the WM8740 and WM8741.



   
  Thank you


----------



## jamato8

I haven't read of anyone doing it. I don't have a system that is good to lift the pins of chip like that. I have done it but it is so easy to lift the traces that when you do, it just isn't fun any longer. If you have the right equipment though try it and let us know what you think. The D12 is coming out with dual dacs on the 25th of this month.


----------



## bakhtiar

Thanks. I do realized it will be quite messy... but, who knows ... if there are some brave souls/head-fi hackers already done it, such as  the *madwolf* who replaced the USB interface chip, PCM2906 to PCM2906B.


----------



## wuwhere

What I would like is a portable DAC only from iBasso, like a D12 but without an amp section. I'm currently using my D10 as a portable DAC feeding my TTVJ hybrid or Arrow amp.


----------



## jamato8

I have one. It has two dacs and is about 3 or 4 cm shorter than the D10. It was ordered by Ryuzoh from iBasso. It is a very good sounding unit but I haven't seen Ryuzoh selling them lately. It has optical and USB input.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I have one. It has two dacs and is about 3 or 4 cm shorter than the D10. It was ordered by Ryuzoh from iBasso. It is a very good sounding unit but I haven't seen Ryuzoh selling them lately. It has optical and USB input.


 

 I read about that. I thought he would productize it.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> I read about that. I thought he would productize it.


 

 He did. I am not sure if they were all sold in Japan or if he still has stock.


----------



## headfi_calderon

I just picked up a pair of TLE2141's and placed them on a brown dog adapter. Does anyone know
  how to put these into Class-A mode? I searched around and didn't find anything.


----------



## hvu

You have to cut two legs off the opamps and connect with with a resister. I can't remember which two but I would recommending pm HiFlight. He can give you more exact details on the matter.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





headfi_calderon said:


> I just picked up a pair of TLE2141's and placed them on a brown dog adapter. Does anyone know
> how to put these into Class-A mode? I searched around and didn't find anything.


 


  If they are DIP configuration opamps, solder a SMD 2.2k resistor between pins 6 & 7 on each opamp.  If they are SOIC opamps, you need to first mount them on SOIC>DIP adapters then solder the resistor between the #6 & 7 pins on the adapters.   You may need to file down the Browndog adpapters as they are larger than the adapters used in the D10.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Took my first shot at changing the opamps from the stock to the AD8656 with dummy buffers and really enjoying the new sound signature. I'm finding less sibilance and overall warmer sound compared to the stock opamps. I'm also noticing a slight reverb that resembles a tube sound to me. Have others noticed this difference? Headphones are Denon d7000 and ATH700.


----------



## jamato8

That is the real fun of the D10 and 12 and a few other amps. I prefer the 8616 to the 8656. Yes, with certain combinations I have more of a tube quality, that is often more 3D, as compared to standard SS sound.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





boynamedsue said:


> Took my first shot at changing the opamps from the stock to the AD8656 with dummy buffers and really enjoying the new sound signature. I'm finding less sibilance and overall warmer sound compared to the stock opamps. I'm also noticing a slight reverb that resembles a tube sound to me. Have others noticed this difference? Headphones are Denon d7000 and ATH700.


 


  Waitasec, I thought the stock config *is* 8656 w/dummies.
   
  If you've got the iBasso rolling kit, try the LHM6643 as opamp for a mellower sound.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

interesting...I purchased mine used and I'm the third owner so maybe one of the previous owners had changed the opamp. I can't remember what I took out of the L/R, but the buffers that i took out were definitely not dummies. I'll have to check when I get home from work. If what you say is true, I guess I've been missing the stock sound =).


----------



## hvu

I can't remember what were the original opamps in the D10 were but I do know the 8656 and dummy buffer were one of the alternatives to the stock opamps that came with the opamps kit.


----------



## dwonk

Just swapped out the smaller 470uF 16V ASF Nippon Chemi-cons for the  220uF 6.3V NX Black Gates.  I asked a co-worker in the Electrophysiology lab I work in to wire it up for me.  I decided to save the 470uF Black Gates for a future purchase of a D12 in a years time. In addition, asking the co-worker to do a five minute soldering job rather than spend a half hour trying to map out how to cram the 470uF BG in there was probably pushing my luck with his generosity.  
   
  Right out of the 'Gates, the sound was brittle and sound stage narrow.  I am just at the 6 hour mark and it is already less brittle and sibilant.  While he was in there I had the R134 resistor swapped out as well for a surface mounted 4.7K ohm.  Now the gain switch actually does something!  Thanks to all the posters that helped with the parts and info (Madwolf, Theory88 and Jamato).  I will try to report on the outcome as these BG burn in.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





dwonk said:


> Just swapped out the smaller 470uF 16V ASF Nippon Chemi-cons for the  220uF 6.3V NX Black Gates.  I asked a co-worker in the Electrophysiology lab I work in to wire it up for me.  I decided to save the 470uF Black Gates for a future purchase of a D12 in a years time. In addition, asking the co-worker to do a five minute soldering job rather than spend a half hour trying to map out how to cram the 470uF BG in there was probably pushing my luck with his generosity.
> 
> Right out of the 'Gates, the sound was brittle and sound stage narrow.  I am just at the 6 hour mark and it is already less brittle and sibilant.  While he was in there I had the R134 resistor swapped out as well for a surface mounted 4.7K ohm.  Now the gain switch actually does something!  Thanks to all the posters that helped with the parts and info (Madwolf, Theory88 and Jamato).  I will try to report on the outcome as these BG burn in.


 
  Great, keep us posted. As you have read, BG's can take quite some time to form.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Just checked the opamps that were pulled out and they were ADA4841-2 in LR, and AD8532 (x2) as buffers. From what I've read, it seems like these are the stock. I'm really enjoying the AD8656 sound so I think I will keep them in for awhile. I like it much better than "stock", which I found to be a bit metallic and harsh/sibilant with my headphone pairings. The LHM6643 will be my next step as I prefer a mellow sound. Maybe I'll invest in a hiflight topkit too, unless someone wants to kindly donate their's =).


----------



## Armaegis

Yuck, the 4841 is one of my least favourite opamps in the D10. I found it to be bright and fatiguing.
   
  I have a long summary of my rolling experiences in post #3984.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Armagis, nice posting. The AD8616 with LMH6643 or AD8656 as buffers are the sounds I am looking for. Where can I find the AD8616? Is this part of the hiflight topkit??


----------



## Armaegis

The 8616 was one of his older topkits (dual mono AD743 w/8616 buffers). I believe the current topkit is... buffers EL8201, and I think the opamp was TLE 2141.
   
  If you just have the original iBasso rolling kit, try the LHM6643 as opamp with dummies. It has a similar laid back sound to the 8616.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> The 8616 was one of his older topkits (dual mono AD743 w/8616 buffers). I believe the current topkit is... buffers EL8201, and I think the opamp was TLE 2141.
> 
> If you just have the original iBasso rolling kit, try the LHM6643 as opamp with dummies. It has a similar laid back sound to the 8616.


 
  I never did use the AD8616 in a Topkit....I used the AD743 with the EL8201.   I do, however, like the AD8616 a lot as it has a very pleasing SQ and can output enough current that bypassing the buffers will still provide good performance with harder to drive cans. 
   
  I always keep a good supply of 8616s on hand.


----------



## mrarroyo

Although I too like the AD8616 I find it lack some punch which the AD8656 does provide. But the differences are not night and day. Cheers.


----------



## jamato8

Interesting. I find the 8616 to have a cleaner treble extension and a more transparent soundstage when compared to the 8656. I find the 8656 in certain applications too warm. Again, I stress, in application because it is how it is handled that makes a difference but in the iBasso amps I prefer the 8616.


----------



## j2kei

how is the ad8616 vs the tle2141?


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> I never did use the AD8616 in a Topkit....I used the AD743 with the EL8201.   I do, however, like the AD8616 a lot as it has a very pleasing SQ and can output enough current that bypassing the buffers will still provide good performance with harder to drive cans.
> 
> I always keep a good supply of 8616s on hand.


 

 Hmm, interesting. I bought a used D10 and the previous owner said that it was one of your topkits. I suppose they might have played with some of their own opamps and left it in after selling.

  
  Quote: 





			
				jamato8 said:
			
		

> Interesting. I find the 8616 to have a cleaner treble extension and a more transparent soundstage when compared to the 8656. I find the 8656 in certain applications too warm. Again, I stress, in application because it is how it is handled that makes a difference but in the iBasso amps I prefer the 8616.


 

 I actually find the 8656 brighter and more in-your-face than the 8616.
   
  Quote: 





j2kei said:


> how is the ad8616 vs the tle2141?


 


 The 2141 is a bit airier and has a bit of a fuzzier tubey sound, if you can call it that.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I haven't heard the D12, but up until now if someone needed a portable amp with optical and coax input I always recommend the D10 with top kit, or stock if they want the RSA Predator sound signature of the stock D10.  It's great to see such a following of the D10 still going on.
   
  It's been so long since I changed to HiFlight's topkit that I can't even say with 100% certainty off the top of my head what's in my D10 now.  I think it's the TLE2141 class-A something bypassed with EL8201 buffers.  I previously had AD743 and then AD744 class-A biased, and one of those had hiss (maybe the AD743), but both sounded pretty good.  Or, I'm getting it confused with my D4, but I think that has OPA1611 and stock buffers. 
   
  However, I haven't used the D10, 3MOVE, XM5, V1 or Icon Mobile in weeks, since I mostly use the D4, uDAC-2 or DACport for portable computer audio these days.  The Pico and Predator are long gone, but I do also use the Pico DAC > Pico Slim or Protector balanced when at my desk, or the Nuforce HDP if not portable and driving full size phones.  The D10 comes pretty close to the D4 once I put in the topkit, but the treble isn't quite as good and airy - micro detail seems to be on par if I use the optical input but very slightly behind via USB.  The D10 still makes a good replacement for my $800 Headroom MicroStack if I don't need to drive difficult headphones, where the more powerful Micro Amp is a little better with HD600/800 or HE-5/LE.  With the topkit installed my D10 amp section seems to be about 95% the RSA P-51 sound signature (differences are in the highs), while the D4 with topkit is an almost exact P-51 clone but with more power in 9v mode.   Interestingly, the HDP is very similar to the Pico DAC > Protector combo's sound signature, without having to use the balanced cable or adapters and at almost half the cost of the former ($450 vs $800 + $100 mini-mini IC); but of course it's not portable so that doesn't count.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I haven't heard the D12, but up until now if someone needed a portable amp with optical and coax input I always recommend the D10 with top kit, or stock if they want the RSA Predator sound signature of the stock D10.  It's great to see such a following of the D10 still going on.
> 
> It's been so long since I changed to HiFlight's topkit that I can't even say with 100% certainty off the top of my head what's in my D10 now.  I think it's the TLE2141 class-A something bypassed with EL8201 buffers.  I previously had AD743 and then AD744 class-A biased, and one of those had hiss (maybe the AD743), but both sounded pretty good.  Or, I'm getting it confused with my D4, but I think that has OPA1611 and stock buffers.
> 
> However, I haven't used the D10, 3MOVE, XM5, V1 or Icon Mobile in weeks, since I mostly use the D4, uDAC-2 or DACport for portable computer audio these days.  The Pico and Predator are long gone, but I do also use the Pico DAC > Pico Slim or Protector balanced when at my desk, or the Nuforce HDP if not portable and driving full size phones.  The D10 comes pretty close to the D4 once I put in the topkit, but the treble isn't quite as good and airy - micro detail seems to be on par if I use the optical input but very slightly behind via USB.  The D10 still makes a good replacement for my $800 Headroom MicroStack if I don't need to drive difficult headphones, where the more powerful Micro Amp is a little better with HD600/800 or HE-5/LE.  With the topkit installed my D10 amp section seems to be about 95% the RSA P-51 sound signature (differences are in the highs), while the D4 with topkit is an almost exact P-51 clone but with more power in 9v mode.   Interestingly, the HDP is very similar to the Pico DAC > Protector combo's sound signature, without having to use the balanced cable or adapters and at almost half the cost of the former ($450 vs $800 + $100 mini-mini IC); but of course it's not portable so that doesn't count.


 

 Larry...
  Your memory is correct on your Topkits!


----------



## jamato8

Sometimes I can't remember where I am, let alone the Topkits! lol 
   
  While I state the obvious, the evolution of headphone amp/dac options sure have been on a fast track. Competition driven, user rewarded.


----------



## dwonk

Quote: 





mrarroyo said:


> Although I too like the AD8616 I find it lack some punch which the AD8656 does provide. But the differences are not night and day. Cheers.


 


  I am preferring the 8656s with the dummy buffers during the BG forming process, it is taking the edge off the mud and bloat.  Just past the 120 hour mark....


----------



## Armaegis

Has anyone ever tried the 8656 as opamps and buffers all together?
   
  The biggest punch combo I head was with the AD743 with 8656 buffers.


----------



## Mad Max

4841 bright and fatiguing?  I've found it warm, bassy, and somewhat analogue-sounding in the treble.  Its articulation is very good and its soundstage has a very pleasant and natural feel to it.  Quite wide, too - one of my favorite ADI chips.  What did you pair it with?


----------



## Armaegis

I had the 4841 paired with 8616 as buffers. Just terrible to my ears. I didn't try any other combinations.


----------



## HiFlight

Once again proves that one SQ doesn't fit everyone!


----------



## Mad Max

I see, 8616 may not be a good choice to pair with 4841 then.  If you ever decide to try that opamp again, pair it with BUF634 instead and you might like it better.


----------



## Armaegis

I think even in the first post the 4841 is listed as the brightest, though I didn't notice that before I tried it out. On the other hand, the 8616 is listed as rather bright but I consider them warmer than the 8656 (which is way down on the list), so my ears hear that differently as well.


----------



## Mad Max

I see.
   
  My impression of it comes from rolling it in a portable CD player and a few soundcards.  I have 4841 in my E5 and a pair for my Minibox-E+.


----------



## vkvedam

Question:
   
  I've bought few opamps recently and they all turned out to be quite small, sort of miniature versions. I've placed an order for AD8616ARZ which is supposed to be miniature version of a regular 8616. When I am buying OpAmps which aren't standard DIP ones what should I be looking for? I believe these ARZ versions are all small more like if you want to solder them on to the PCB itself. And I've bought some dummy DIP sockets as well so that I could solder the non DIP ones on to those.
   
  Many Thanks....


----------



## Mad Max

*R or *RZ are soic versions.
   
  *N or *NZ are the DIP versions.


----------



## vkvedam

Quote: 





mad max said:


> *R or *RZ are soic versions.
> 
> *N or *NZ are the DIP versions.


 

 Thanks for the reply. But RZ seems to be the miniature version. How about the prefix 'A'?
   
  Cheers..


----------



## Mad Max

A/B/C/J/K/S/T denotes grade. (A is lowest grade - different grades may also have different tonalities)
  H for military grade.
  Q also denotes DIP version.


----------



## jamato8

On some chips there is even an N but the K is the better selected chip in that case. I have some receiver chips in both N and K for a Audio Note dac and the K do actually sound better, more refined.


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## darren700

has any one tried the D10 with beyerdynamic DT900 600ohm? I am seriously considering getting a pair of these and would like to know if the D10 is sufficient to drive them well?
   
  thanks


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## theory_87

Quote: 





darren700 said:


> has any one tried the D10 with beyerdynamic DT900 600ohm? I am seriously considering getting a pair of these and would like to know if the D10 is sufficient to drive them well?
> 
> thanks


 

 No... I tried it with DT880 600ohm.


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## chinook9

My D10 is on the way and will be here on Tuesday.  I'm in a big rush to try out some of the amp-buffer combinations mentioned in this thread. 
   
  Are there reliable internet sources for the op-amps and buffers that don't come with the D10? 
   
  Any help would be appreciated.


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## jamato8

Quote: 





chinook9 said:


> My D10 is on the way and will be here on Tuesday.  I'm in a big rush to try out some of the amp-buffer combinations mentioned in this thread.
> 
> Are there reliable internet sources for the op-amps and buffers that don't come with the D10?
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.


 

 I would get used to the sound and then contact HiFlight as he has weeded through many and has some choices that offer a change in sound, if that is what you want.


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## MusiCol

After using my D10 for a few weeks in its stock configuration (through Sennheiser IE8's - currently the only 'phones I use), I decided to do my first bit of rolling... I tried every configuration with the D10's included rolling kit and settled on the AD8656 opamp with stock buffers. This seems to me to have the greatest depth of soundstage and by far the best clarity to my ears - I can differentiate instruments far more clearly - and when there's nothing playing there is absolute silence! However, I find there are still areas which could be improved such as the bass which seems weaker, so I'd like to try some other combinations. Please can anyone suggest where to buy chips which fit - without needing soldering - in the UK?
   
  Thanks


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## jamato8

I like the AD8616. Have you tried that one. Also you could use the 8656 with buffers bipassed.


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## Armaegis

Hmm, I think the 8656/dummies is already the stock config (so it sounds like MusiCol wound up right where he started). The D10 rolling kit doesn't come with 8616. Out of the original kit I tend to like the LHM6643, though typically more as buffers than as opamp.


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## MusiCol

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Hmm, I think the 8656/dummies is already the stock config (so it sounds like MusiCol wound up right where he started). The D10 rolling kit doesn't come with 8616. Out of the original kit I tend to like the LHM6643, though typically more as buffers than as opamp.


 

 You're right that the D10 opamp rolling kit does not include 8616's, but I've just double-checked and the stock opamp is ADA4841. That's the one I replaced with an AD8656.
   
  The info sheet that came with my D10 states: "Contents; iBasso D10, ........, and opamp rolling kit (Includes AD8656*2, LMH6643*2, Dummy Adapter*2)"
   
  My D10 was bought new in the last month or so from Hifi Headphones here in the UK so I presume it's fairly new stock. Hope that clarifies things.
   
  PS. I didn't really give myself much time with the other configurations before deciding on an AD8656 opamp and stock buffers. Sorry I can't remember what the buffers were without pulling the D10 apart, but they were definitely not dummy's. I'll check which they are next time I open my D10 up. This was the first time I have ever taken an amp / DAC apart to change chips and I was keen to get the circuit board and all its sensitive components safely back inside their case asap! So I shall try the other suggestions for at least an hour before buying new chips. That experience should teach me more about opamp rolling, and which opamps and buffers should be best for my ears.


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## Armaegis

I was just going by the iBasso website which says the stock config is 8656/dummies. They've probably changed the stock config over time though. They used to sell with the kit included, and now they don't, so I'm sure some things got rearranged in that transition.


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## MusiCol

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> I was just going by the iBasso website which says the stock config is 8656/dummies. They've probably changed the stock config over time though. They used to sell with the kit included, and now they don't, so I'm sure some things got rearranged in that transition.


 

 Looks like I got one of the last batch of D10's with the kit included.


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## MusiCol

The stock buffers are AD8532. I found that after burning in the AD8656 opamp with the stock buffers the sound became very dark, although the soundstage remained very good - deep and wide.
   
  So I swapped the buffers for the LMH6643's and really disliked that combination. The soundstage sort of collapsed so it was hard to tell where anything was coming from, and the SQ suffered slightly, although I only gave them about 10hours. However, the sound at the end of that time was the same as at the start, so I've swapped them for the dummy buffers and the sound has really come alive again!
   
  If iBasso are now supplying the D10 with AD8656 opamp and dummy buffers but no rolling kit, I would say from my experience that they've chosen the best chips - which is quite reassuring!
   
  I'll keep this combination until my Topkit(!) arrives, and make a further comment then.


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## jamato8

Quote: 





musicol said:


> The stock buffers are AD8532. I found that after burning in the AD8656 opamp with the stock buffers the sound became very dark, although the soundstage remained very good - deep and wide.
> 
> So I swapped the buffers for the LMH6643's and really disliked that combination. The soundstage sort of collapsed so it was hard to tell where anything was coming from, and the SQ suffered slightly, although I only gave them about 10hours. However, the sound at the end of that time was the same as at the start, so I've swapped them for the dummy buffers and the sound has really come alive again!
> 
> ...


 
  The AD8656 has a good output current so you really don't need buffers. Less in the audio signal is best most of the time for transparent and open sound.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 it also exhibits less iPhone GSM buzz than the original opamp they started shipping with (I think AD4841?)


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## Randius

I just bought a used D10 and noticed that when I switch it on, I will hear a "pop" sound. Also, I will hear noises when turning up the volume. May I ask if this is normal or if there is anything wrong with the opamps/contacts etc?


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## Armaegis

The pop is normal. Grainy sounds on the volume knob just mean the knob is a little worn, but it shouldn't be a problem.


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## castlevania32

yeah just turn the knob both ways very fast to remove the oxydation


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## HiFlight

Usually the sound when turning the volume knob is due to a bit of offset voltage that appears at the volume knob, usually right after turning on the amp.   Some opamps are more noticeable in this respect than others.   Although this can be caused by dirty or oxidized contacts, that is usually only a problem in old amps.   Often the sound will disappear shortly after the voltage settles down a moment or two after the amp is turned on.  It is not a defect unless you hear static or distortion at a constant volume setting.   The pop at turn on is also normal and will also vary with different opamps. 
  Quote: 





randius said:


> I just bought a used D10 and noticed that when I switch it on, I will hear a "pop" sound. Also, I will hear noises when turning up the volume. May I ask if this is normal or if there is anything wrong with the opamps/contacts etc?


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## wuwhere

I haven't used my D10 as a DAC only from its coax SPDIF input. Now that I have a transport with a coax out, I tried it and to my amazement, it is excellent. I prefer the coax over optical.


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## Joule

Right so I've been using my D10 every day at work after purchasing it off my mate a few weeks ago. I've been running it as a USB DAC/AMP for my ATH-ES7's and was never sure about leaving the charge switch on the on position or not (while it was connected) so I just left it on thinking it wouldn't charge the battery if it didn't need to (its meant to have overcharge protection) and would simply use the USB input as power too...
   
  However, this week I noticed the red led on the bottom back of the D10 now never turns off - regardless of if I have nothing connected and the volume off, and it seems like the battery now drains quickly while its not in use, as when I turned it on yesterday the light next to the power knob flashed. I tried charging it overnight last night with the volume power switch off and having it only plugged into a USB wall-wart but the bottom red led on the back is still on (but the front red led now doesn't flash). I've opened it up this morning and double checked there are no shorts. Obviously the led turns off if I disconnect the battery 
   
  Any ideas? Does the red led on the back stay on if the battery is dying? Or have I possibly damaged it while rolling opamps? (I forgot to disconnect the battery while doing it once).
   
  Cheers.


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## Armaegis

Leaving it on the charge switch shouldn't make a difference, and you don't need to unplug the battery when changing opamps (though giving it some time for the caps to discharge would be a good idea). I think maybe your battery is just near the end of its life. The best bet is to send iBasso an email.


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## Hawaiiancerveza

ANyone want to buy a D10?  I'm selling mine.


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## GandalfLux

Hi,

 sorry for wake up this tread but i have a little question...

 do you think my D10 can drive a HD 800 Headphone ?

 i search very neutral headphone and this HD 800 is on my list ( With SRH 1840, D7000 and HD700)

 But i don't know if he can drive 300Ohms Headphone  .

 Maybe if i buy a HD 800 after i want change for a new AMP , but for start i want know if it's OK.

 Sorry for my english.

 Mika


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## HiFlight

gandalflux said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> sorry for wake up this tread but i have a little question...
> ...




The D10 should drive your HD-800 OK unless you listen at high volume levels. The D10 output is rather limited due to the low supply voltage. The HD-800 does have a reputation for being picky about what amps it sounds good with. It is worth a try before spending any more money.


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## sbulack

Recently, I've brought the D10 into my audio rig:
  Nationite S:Flo2 -> Whiplash Audio Hybrid TWAg-TWCu mini-to-mini -> iBasso D10 -> Grado HF-2 phones
  and it adds SUCH a lovely increase in the abundance of rich lushness to the sound in the music to which I listen using it.
   
  Substitute the HD650 for the Grado HF-2, and the result is a little different (less lushness and greater crystalline clarity),
  and no less strikingly engaging a listen.
   
  When I bought the SR-71A a few years ago, followed by the P-51 Mustang, I started using the D10 less.  Rolling it back into this rig reminds me of just how
  wonderful a music listening instrument the D10 is.


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## GandalfLux

Realy great Thanks 

 Ok so i need now find a seller for listen this HD800 and The new SRH 1840 and maybe d7000. it's the 3 pretendant for me 

 Thanks for all, if anybody have information or test with D10 and great HeadPhone don't hesitate 

 Mika


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> The D10 should drive your HD-800 OK unless you listen at high volume levels. The D10 output is rather limited due to the low supply voltage. The HD-800 does have a reputation for being picky about what amps it sounds good with. It is worth a try before spending any more money.


 

 It doesn't play them very loud, but it's loud enough, and with the stock opamps it takes away some of the fatiguing grain to the HD800 as well.  I thought the D10 paired better with HD800 than HD600/650.


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## Arnas-

delete this post please


----------



## flipflop

My apologies for reviving a very old thread...
  
 Are there any suitable DIP/through hole op amps for use as L/R and buffer opamps?  Got myself an old D10 but without the opamp rolling kit.  The opamps installed are the stock ones (ADA48412 on L/R, AD8532*2 on Buffer) which I find overly warm when paired with my earbuds.  Most of the suggested opamps on the first page are surface mount op amps and I have zero soldering skills.  While we're at it, what specifications should i look for when shopping for op amps (for L/R and buffer use)? more specifically:
  
 Power Supply Type: Single or Dual?
 Number of channels per chip: Ranges from 1 to 4
 Typical supply voltage: Wide range
 Slew Rate: Wide range
 etc. etc.
  
 Really sorry but any help would be most appreciated.


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## Armaegis

There's a lot of info in this thread, but you have to dig a little. Here are my notes from... wow, 7 years ago...
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/399315/ibasso-d10-updates-1st-page-with-current-opamp-choices-by-hiflight-images-page-1-12-13-14-15-21-71/3975#post_6741581


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## flipflop

armaegis said:


> There's a lot of info in this thread, but you have to dig a little. Here are my notes from... wow, 7 years ago...
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/399315/ibasso-d10-updates-1st-page-with-current-opamp-choices-by-hiflight-images-page-1-12-13-14-15-21-71/3975#post_6741581


 
  
 great, thanks! this helps.  i'll go through your recommendations and hope that i find a combination that uses through-hole (DIP) op amp chips.  Almost all the recommended chips on the first page are surface mounted (SOIC) types.


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## Armaegis

I forgot that the original iBasso D10 came with the opamp rolling kit with all the soic chips presoldered onto adapters. You can maybe try emailing them and see if they still have some old kits available.


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## flipflop

yeah, i'll give it a shot. thanks again!


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