# Denon PMA-2000IVR Integrated Amp



## furball

I just bought this integrated amp to power my speakers and to use it as my headphone (I think I am going to order a pair of AKG K701).

 Does anyone have any experience with this integrated amp? It is quite heavy, weighing in at 52lbs
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. How does it perform, both in terms of powering bookshelf speakers and in terms of powering headphones?


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## infinitesymphony

It certainly looks like a beast! How much did you pay for it?


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## furball

The list price is $1199. I purchased this integrated amp along with a pair of Polk LSi9 speakers. With a bit of haggling, I was able to negotiate the price down to $1100 for the integrated amp.

 I took delivery of the integrated amp and the speakers yesterday, but my cables wont be here till next week. So they are still sitting in their boxes right now.


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## IPodPJ

Wait a second.... You got a Denon amp and you're not even going to get the Denon headphones to go with it? Oh brudder... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They sound much better than the K701, imo.

 P.S. Edit the title of the thread. You have it spelled "Deon".


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## furball

Noticed the misspelling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But it's too late, I can't seem to edit the thread's title.

 Denon D2000, seems intriguing. I'll look into it. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## infinitesymphony

Just looking at the guts, I imagine it will tide you over until you want to get into separates or home theater. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's always difficult to tell how good the headphone amplifier will be on a speaker amp. The only way to know is to listen (and to look inside, if you can). Just remember to disable speaker outputs when using the headphone jack, though I imagine it will auto-sense headphone input and shut them off on its own.

 I've never heard higher-end Polks, but a lot of people have had good things to say about the LSi line. Congrats on the new setup!

 Also, you can change the thread's title by editing your first post and clicking "Go Advanced."


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## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *furball* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Noticed the misspelling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But it's too late, I can't seem to edit the thread's title.

 Denon D2000, seems intriguing. I'll look into it. Thanks for the suggestion.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sure ya' can. Just hit "edit" and once the screen comes up, then hit "edit" again. It will then refresh and let you edit the title. It took me the longest time to figure that out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good luck with your headphone purchase. The D2000 are great, but the D5000 are better. Nice looking amp. Denon makes some great stuff. Enjoy it!


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## furball

Thanks guys for teaching me that editing trick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The title is now spelled correctly.


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## chesebert

I think you made a mistake; this amp measures no better than the $150 penny...you have just wasted alot of money.


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## furball

Can you elaborate?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you made a mistake; this amp measures no better than the $150 penny...you have just wasted alot of money._


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## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you made a mistake; this amp measures no better than the $150 penny...you have just wasted alot of money._

 

Well that's a really rude way of putting it.

 If he doesn't like it he can always return it. I'm sure he didn't buy something he wouldn't be able to return (therefore "wasting" money), minus shipping of course.


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## furball

I actually thought about this.

 Even though this integrated is only rated at 80 watts, it is capable of pushing high currents into those 80 watts. When you are dealing with low impedance speakers (the LSi9's are rated at 4 ohms), it is really the amount of current that is more important.

 The nearest entry level audiophile amp I was considering at the time of purchase costs about $2000. A decent preamp will run me another $500. So I settled on this all in one solution.


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you made a mistake; this amp measures no better than the $150 penny...you have just wasted alot of money._

 

I'm assuming you meant Panny as in those Panasonic digital receivers. Let's compare the popular $249 Panasonic SR-XR57 to the Denon PMA-2000IVR, just looking at specs:

*Panasonic SA-XR57*
 100 watts per channel @ 6 ohms = 75 watts per channel @ 8 ohms
 SNR: 85 dB (103 dB on digital input?)
 THD: 0.09% @ 6 ohms

*Denon PMA-2000IVR*
 80 watts per channel @ 8 ohms
 SNR: 108 dB
 THD: 0.01% @ 8 ohms

 I don't see a single specification that measures better for the Panasonic... Unless you were joking about it the whole time (or I misinterpreted your post).


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## Nebby

Regardless of how it measures, I demo'ed it with the denon bookshelf speakers  and it sounded wonderful. I didn't get a chance to test it with headphones, but I found a review of the predecessor here: Amp/Preamp Asylum

 I also got to try out the DENON - ƒfƒmƒ“ - Premium Audio Brand [ PRODUCTS/»•iî•ñ/ƒvƒŠƒƒCƒ“ƒAƒ“ƒv^ƒ`ƒ…[ƒi[/PMA-SA1 ] and that one was also rather impressive


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## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm assuming you meant Panny as in those Panasonic digital receivers. Let's compare the popular $249 Panasonic SR-XR57 to the Denon PMA-2000IVR, just looking at specs:

*Panasonic SA-XR57*
 100 watts per channel @ 6 ohms = 75 watts per channel @ 8 ohms
 SNR: 85 dB (103 dB on digital input?)
 THD: 0.09% @ 6 ohms

*Denon PMA-2000IVR*
 80 watts per channel @ 8 ohms
 SNR: 108 dB
 THD: 0.01% @ 8 ohms

 I don't see a single specification that measures better... Unless you were joking about it the whole time (or I misinterpreted your post). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

*Denon PMA-2000IVR*
 160W @4ohm => THD is 0.7% !!
 80W @8ohm => THD is 0.07%

 How is this better than 0.09% @ 6ohm? 

 How can Denon sound better than Panasonic SA-XR55s if it measures worse?? If you can't measure it you can't hear it !!! that's a fact! And if it measures worse, it must sounds worse. 

 at least OP should stick with his believes on all electronics including amplifiers.


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## gotchaforce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you made a mistake; this amp measures no better than the $150 penny...you have just wasted alot of money._

 

ahh i see its all one big troll


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## gotchaforce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Denon PMA-2000IVR*
 160W @4ohm => THD is 0.7% !!
 80W @8ohm => THD is 0.07%

 How is this better than 0.09% @ 6ohm? 

 How can Denon sound better than Panasonic SA-XR55s if it measures worse?? If you can't measure it you can't hear it !!! that's a fact! And if it measures worse, it must sounds worse. 

 at least OP should stick with his believes on all electronics including amplifiers._

 

maybe the OP could do a blind test if you sent him an XR55... if he cant tell the difference im pretty sure he would return the denon.


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Denon PMA-2000IVR*
 160W @4ohm => THD is 0.7% !!
 80W @8ohm => THD is 0.07%

 How is this better than 0.09% @ 6ohm? 

 How can Denon sound better than Panasonic SA-XR55s if it measures worse?? If you can't measure it you can't hear it !!! that's a fact! And if it measures worse, it must sounds worse._

 

C'mon, are you serious? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The Panasonic isn't even 4-ohm stable. Good luck driving anything at 4 ohms with one, regardless of THD. Besides, the Panasonic's analog input section measures so poorly it's not even close to being able to reproduce a regular CD's dynamic range (85 dB SNR vs. 96 dB).

 Edit: If you look closely, you'll note that the 4-ohm THD spec for the Denon is rated in DIN, not RMS. "Continuous power output" = RMS, which is why Panasonic's two measurements are the same in that section. I have a feeling if Denon bothered measuring that way, they would have 0.07% in both places.

 Panasonic's DIN Power is listed in the lower-right hand corner of the specs page. 1% THD at 6 ohms.


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## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gotchaforce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_maybe the OP could do a blind test if you sent him an XR55... if he cant tell the difference im pretty sure he would return the denon._

 

I think BB has 30-day money back on those or its equivalents; but regardless, even if OP claims to hear a difference, its merely placebo as we all know, since the Panny measures better or measures close enough to the Denon. And don't forget the 103dB digital inputs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think OP will be much happier with the Panny!! what's the point paying 5X for equivalent measured performance?


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think OP will be much happier with the Panny!! what's the point paying 5X for equivalent measured performance?_

 

Exactly, and what's the point in paying 24X the cost of the Panasonic? Sell your Ayre AX-7e and move to budget-fi.


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## soundboy

I personally think it was a big mistake buying the amp as well. Except that I will offer to dump the amp for you....heck, I will pay you $150.00 to send it to me and I can get rid of it for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats on the amp!! One day, I will own one of these beasts


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## furball

Hey Chesebert, after my recent purchase, I am kind of out of disposable income for the next 3 months. If you send me your Panny, I will be more than happy to do a detailed comparison review for all you guys.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And oh Chesebert, if you don't mind, can you please also send me a couple of your Virtual Dynamics powercords and cables while you are at it? I would love to do a comparison between those ultra expensive cables and the generic ones that I am getting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And that Denon Premium Audio Integrated Amp looks REALLY impressive. But too bad it's not for sale here in the U.S.


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## gritzcolin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *furball* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The list price is $1199. I purchased this integrated amp along with a pair of Polk LSi9 speakers. With a bit of haggling, I was able to negotiate the price down to $1100 for the integrated amp.

 I took delivery of the integrated amp and the speakers yesterday, but my cables wont be here till next week. So they are still sitting in their boxes right now.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have the LSi 7's and they are quite possibly one of the best bookshelf speakers I have ever heard right up there with high end B&W's although I have never A/B listened to both, the highs are some of the best I have ever heard the ring tweeters are incredible.

 I see people crying about the amp you picked, if you want bang for the buck go on ebay and find a reconditioned Sansui AU-717 or AU-919. I own the 717 and it is not only powerful with a low THD 85wpc w/ 0.025% THD@8 ohms. It sounds better than any two channel I have heard and I have heard some nice amps, I'd imagine there are some elite manufacturers that make something better but I bet the headphone stage isnt even close to as good or powerful. I use it for my Sextetts and they are driven with extreme ease. I also had my LSi7's matched up to it but it needs an overhaul now as its 30 years old and has never had any proffessional maintenance.

AU-717

 The 919 is even more of a beast 100 wpc with a 0.007% THD @8 Ohms. Sorry I have to pimp Vintage Sansui every chance I get cause it really is amazing and can be had for a bargain compared to anything comparable you'd find new these days. The Audiokarma forums have a Sansui section. 
AU-919


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## furball

The LSi7 has the exact same ring tweeter as the LSi9. I read that this ring tweeter is the same one used in Krell's top of the line speakers which cost $$$$$. Man this is sweet! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 As to the Sansui gear, they sure look impressive. But with used gear, I don't have too good of an experience with used gear. A couple of old integrated amps I have purchased over the years had one problem or another. So that's why this time I am buying new gears.

 Who knows, maybe one day I will buy a pair of LSi15 floorstanders, and a real amp/preamp combo to power them, but I think even then I will still keep my current combo and use them as my bedroom set.


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## gritzcolin

Thats why you buy the vintage gear that has been reconditioned, new caps old glue cleaned up ect... Trust me it's worth it. I have tried newer amps and I just do not like them. Some of the Rotel stuff is pretty decent to my ears but I don't know how the headphone out is and you pay over $700.

 Those amps from the 70's were built to last mine is 31 years old and just this last year has decided to fail and it can be fixed for a decent price. Plus being all black it isn't gaudy like some of the silver/wood beasts (wish I still had my Marantz 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 I could have had the LSi15's for $700 but I didnt have the extra money god I wish I could have bought those.


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## furball

Nice. I'll look into those reconditioned stuff.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Speaking of Marantz, have you see Marantz reference series stuff? There is a Marantz reference series integrated amp on their website, and the list price is $4000! That's one hell of a beast!


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## furball

When I do decide to upgrade, you will be the first to know! But we will have some serious discussions about that price you just quoted me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soundboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I personally think it was a big mistake buying the amp as well. Except that I will offer to dump the amp for you....heck, I will pay you $150.00 to send it to me and I can get rid of it for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats on the amp!! One day, I will own one of these beasts_


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## furball

Thank you for clearing that up. Man, for a second there I was kind of worried. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_C'mon, are you serious? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Panasonic isn't even 4-ohm stable. Good luck driving anything at 4 ohms with one, regardless of THD. Besides, the Panasonic's analog input section measures so poorly it's not even close to being able to reproduce a regular CD's dynamic range (85 dB SNR vs. 96 dB).

 Edit: If you look closely, you'll note that the 4-ohm THD spec for the Denon is rated in DIN, not RMS. "Continuous power output" = RMS, which is why Panasonic's two measurements are the same in that section. I have a feeling if Denon bothered measuring that way, they would have 0.07% in both places.

 Panasonic's DIN Power is listed in the lower-right hand corner of the specs page. 1% THD at 6 ohms. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


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## gritzcolin

Bam there you go and this guy looks as if he takes care of the gear he gets he has a sexy rig there.


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## furball

Looks like that seller knows how to recondition his gear.

 I will see how the auction goes. Thanks for the links.


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## sgrossklass

One can find the PMA-2000 IV service docs on eserviceinfo.com, btw. Very nice amp. For speakers, that is - the headphone out section seems to be no more than the usual dropping resistors after the power amp.


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## furball

I finally got a chance to take the integrated amp and the speakers out of their boxes and set them up.

 The amp has plenty of power driving my 4 ohm speakers. For casual listening, I usually keep the volume below the 9 o'clock position. At 10 o'clock position, things start to sound a bit unbearably loud. At 11 o'clock, I was sure I was going to get evicted from my apartment.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The amp just gets lukewarm driving my speakers. The build quality is very good, you can feel the weight and the fit and finish of the knobs. The integrated amp is very heavy. Once it's set in place, I sure as hell don't want to move it again.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As to the sonic qualities, I am not used to all the audiophile mumbo jumbo. I will just say that this Denon integrated amp and my Polk LSi9 speakers sound good, very good to my ears. I love the ring radiator on my LSi9's. It doesn't sound fatiguing at all.


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