# Woo WA2 Tube Rolling Recommendations



## xenithon

Hi All,

 I recently took delivery of a Woo Audio WA2 amplifier. I am enjoying it immensely (full review in the pipelines) and although it is still running in - Jack recommended +/- 200 hours - I am doing some preliminary research into possible tube rolling adventures. 

 The amp uses a pair of driver tubes, a pair of preamp tubes and a pair of rectifiers, and tube rolling options seem to be as follows:

*Power*: 6080(WA/WB/WC), 5998/5998A, 7236, 6AS7G/6AS7GA

*Preamp*: 6922/E88CC, 6DJ8/ECC88, 7308

*Rectifier*: EZ80/6V4

 From what I have read and in emails from Woo Audio, I believe that the most significant affect on the sound would come from rolling the power tubes; less so from the preamps tubes and even less so from the rectifiers - would you guys concur?

 Also, what would you suggest as a starting point in the tube rolling adventure with this amps - specifically the power tubes? What I would want to achieve is a warm/lush sound, but quite open and extended. That is, not neutral/cold, but also not too euphonic, rolled off or closed in (small soundstage). 

 Any shared experiences in tube rolling with this amp and/or the above tube types would be most welcome! But of course a caveat - would prefer to start with a reasonable budget ($50-$100) so will be avoiding $200 Tung-Sol 5998s or $400 WE421A's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Cheers
 X


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## HeatFan12

Hi X

 After reading several of your posts and the posts in the WA2 mod thread, I decided to take the plunge and recently ordered the WA2. 

 One power tube that is not liked very much here is the 6H13C. It has a warm, lush sound. I like it with Beyers and Grados. The JAN CRC 6AS7G is also one that I personally like. Nice detail, very balanced. Have not tried the 7236, but from what I have read from other threads, it is excellent.

 The 5998s are that expensive already? Freakin' incredible...I bought mine about 6 months ago for $35 each.

 I also have been looking around for some 6DJ8s, 6922s and see what options there are for EZ80.

 From the looks of it, I believe there will be some fun times ahead...


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## jenneth

*Power:*

 I'm currently using the Tung-Sol 5998, I'm generally happy with them. I heard the Cetron/Tung-Sol 7236 are also very good (more neutral sounding?). As for the Western Electric 421A, I don't think I'll be getting them.

*Preamp:*

 I'm using the Bugle Boy & the Orange Globe. They each have their own strength and weakness, I like them both. My next upgrade will most likely be the PQ or the Tungsram 6922 (supposedly they are similar to the PQ).


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## xenithon

Thanks for the tips thus far! I have also been looking at the RCA-CRC 6AS7G (black plate) - apparently quite rounded and warm but not soft at the extremes. The others which come to mind are the Bendix 6080's which I've seen go for around $80-100 for a NOS pair. 

 Jack suggested that for the full-bodied, warmer signature I should look at the 6080's first, 6AS7G's a close second. He said the 5998's excel at detail and control, though are a lot more neutral (can be cold in the wrong setup).

 For preamp tubes I have been eyeing the Tesla E88CC Gold Pins (60's-70's Czech production) which are said to be very good and not that costly. Haven't looked too much into rectifiers (I believe they have the least affect on the WA2's sound).


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## Skylab

The WE 421a is a total waste of money - it is just a Tung Sol 5998 rebranded - nothing more. The TS 5998 on the other hand are terrific (and should be $50 each or less).

 My very favorite of all the 6AS7G types though is the GEC A1834/6AS7G, but these are hard to find. I also like Tung-Sol black-plate, halo-getter 6AS7G - nice tubes. 

 My favorite affordable 6DJ8 are the JAN-Sylvania. My favorite expensive 6DJ8 are the Amperex (Holland) Bugle Boy.

 No experience with that rectifier tube.


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## xenithon

Thanks Skylab...the astronomic pricing of the WE421A are more an amusement to me than anything else 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . I've tried to get my hands on some Tung Sol 5998's but they are few and far between; when I have seen them they are usually at around $150-$200 for a NOS pair.

 Anyone know/have experience with the Raytheon CK6080?

 By the way, a tube rolling tip I just got from Jack which should be noted - _tubes that have large bases (1/4" larger than the stock GE 6AS7G or Tung Sol 5998) would not fit fully into the socket_. 

 Anyone know if the base diameter is determined by tube type (e.g., all 6080WB's have the same diameter) or is it dependant on manufacturer (e.g., two 6080WB's by different manufactures may have different base diameters)?

 Cheers
 X


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## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, a tube rolling tip I just got from Jack which should be noted - tubes that have large bases (1/4" larger than the stock GE 6AS7G or Tung Sol 5998) would not fit fully into the socket. 

 Cheers
 X_

 


 Thanks X

 After reading this I took a closer look and it does look a bit tight for the thicker bases, especially the metal ones. I have a pair of Bendix 6080s that I was really looking forward to use in there.

 Did he advise any in specific that he has found not to fit in there?

 Thanks

 Jes


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## xenithon

Not yet, no. I did follow up asking if this may be an issue dependant on tube type or rather on manufacturer (as above). If I get any feedback regarding problematic types I'll post it here. 

 Do you know what the diameter of the stock 6AS7G or 5998 is and if it is a _standard_ of sorts?


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## HeatFan12

Here is a data sheet electron Tube Data sheets - 6

 I guess anywhere from 1 3/8" (6AS7G), 1 23/32" (6080), 1 5/8" (7236).....


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## Skylab

Yes, the 6AS7G and 5998 use a standard Octal base - same as all octals like 6SN7/6SL7, etc.


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## xenithon

Do you guys find that the more significant effect on sound is from the power tubes, or from the preamp tubes? 

 I have my eyes on some Amperex orange globe 6DJ8's. Anyone know what the going rate would pair for a NOS matched pair (as pictured below)? Also, anyone know what _instrument grade_ tubes means?


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## Gvvt

I suspect you've seen this, but the effect of tube changes is part of the discussion here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/woo...9/#post5162111


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## xenithon

Hi there. Yes I have been keeping an eye on that thread. I am particularly interested though in which tubes people have found have the most significant effect on the WA2 (that is - preamp, power or rectifier tubes).


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## xenithon

BUMP.....to those who own the WA2 and have done some tube rolling, did you find more of a significant impact rolling the preamp tubes or the power tubes?

 Cheers
 X


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## mmwwhats

This doesn't answer your question, xenithon about which tube roll has a greater effect, but here's a link to a nice overview of different 6922/6dj8/7302 tubes that work with the WA2 and their characteristic sound. (Joe's Tube Lore)


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## xenithon

Thanks, much obliged. Nice little write-up there....a good reference.

 Has anyone rolled the EZ80/6V4 tubes? Did you notice any/much difference? I can get some Bugle Boy (made in France) EZ80's for a decent price, though obviously not as cheap as the Tesla's and RFT's from eBay, and was wondering if they are worth the extra cost or if they don't make much difference in the WA2.


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## swoon

i haven't done any rolling with ez80 tubes yet, though i have a few coming in the mail pretty soon. 

 rolling the power tubes makes a huge, amp changing difference. 

 tubes i've tried

 tung-sol 5998 - best, much improved bass extention - increased sound stage and detailed. very tubey sounding as well. 

 GE 6080 - this gives you maybe 80% of the tung sol sound in the same areas really. with the increaded price of the tung sols recently this is a good option. 

 JAN 6AS7GA - slight better than stock - anemic bass, slightly improved sound stage, muddled mids.


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## xenithon

Thanks _swoon_ - affirms what Jack said about the power tubes having the greatest impact. 

 Currently have some GE-JAN 5998A's in it. I can pick up some GEC 6080's (CV2984) for a pretty good price - has anyone tried these before perhaps? Similar to the picture below.







 Cheers
 X


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## Skylab

I use GEC 6AS7G's in my SinglePower Extreme - they are my favorite 6AS7G variant. I like them better than the Tung-Sol 5998. But they tend to be expensive. If those GEC 6080's are at all similar, you will like them a lot.


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## Judicata

I recently received my WA2. Jack also implied that the power tubes make the most difference. 

 For my setup (which includes the K701s) he recommended upgrading the power tubes to 6H13Cs, which have been mentioned before in this thread. If there are any opinions about them, I'm more than happy to listen. They are on their way, so I'll compare them first hand either way.


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## jsaliga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The TS 5998 on the other hand are terrific (and should be $50 each or less)._

 

There is a big difference between should be $50 each and are $50 each. The TS 5998s have gotten very scarce in the past 12 months and are therefore very pricey. If you know where they can be had in matched pair quantity for that price then please post a link.

 When I bought my WA2 18 months ago I bought two extra sets of TS 5998 tubes from Jack because I knew then that supply was starting to dry up. I sold one set to another head-fier several months ago and the other set is staying right here.

 --Jerome


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## jsaliga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you guys find that the more significant effect on sound is from the power tubes, or from the preamp tubes? 

 I have my eyes on some Amperex orange globe 6DJ8's. Anyone know what the going rate would pair for a NOS matched pair (as pictured below)? Also, anyone know what instrument grade tubes means?




_

 

These are great tubes. I used a set of Amperex Orange Globes for nearly a year and then suddenly without warning one of them went microphonic on me and I ended up replacing them with a set of Valvo E88 CCs, which are also great. Edit: Oh, and IIRC they cost me about $60 for a matched pair.

 I know there are a lot of people who think there is a huge difference in these 6922/6DJ8 variants, but I have tried about 10 different NOS flavors and can't say that there was that much of a difference to justify the stratospheric prices some of them command. Even the the GE Gray Label 6922 tubes I bought for $20/matched pair sounded pretty good to my ears.

 As Jack and others have said, the power tubes make the most notable difference and I agree.

 --Jerome


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## HeatFan12

Thanks for the info Jerome.

 I know I have asked several times before but to no avail, however, since you have had a WA2 for 18 months, you might know- Do you have any problems fitting any 6080/7236 tubes in the slot. The space looks tight for their bases and I have a bunch of 6080s. Want to make sure they fit, if not, order the extender or more 6AS7 tubes before my WA2 arrives.

 Thanks in advance.

 Jes


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## jsaliga

I can't imagine the 6080 not fitting. Here is a closeup of my WA2 with a Tung Sol NOS 5998.






 I know the 6080 has a big base but there should be plenty of clearance here to fit them to the WA2. Jack lists them on the site as a compatible tube and if there were issues with fitting them I am sure he would have specified only a 6AS7.

 Hope this helps.

 --Jerome


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## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jsaliga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a big difference between should be $50 each and are $50 each. The TS 5998s have gotten very scarce in the past 12 months and are therefore very pricey. If you know where they can be had in matched pair quantity for that price then please post a link.

 When I bought my WA2 18 months ago I bought two extra sets of TS 5998 tubes from Jack because I knew then that supply was starting to dry up. I sold one set to another head-fier several months ago and the other set is staying right here.

 --Jerome_

 

I know it hasn't been the same since AES ran out (they were selling for $30 each NOS). But I see them go on EBay for under $100/pair quite a bit.


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## jsaliga

I see that two matched pairs have sold on ebay in the last 60 days for less than $100. Don't know anything about the sellers and I generally walk away without any information in a listing regarding how the tubes test. If the seller hasn't tested the tubes then I don't want them.

 The 5998s are still scarce by any sensible definition, and I have seen prices on eBay in the $150 to $200 range for a matched pair fairly often. That Jack at Woo Audio no longer has a reliable source for them and is no longer offering them as a tube upgrade for the WA2 says a lot. 

 I don't want to argue about it. Suffice it to say that the supply has dried up considerably in the course of the last year and a half and there are some dealers pricing their wares accordingly. Fair enough?

 --Jerome


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## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jsaliga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see that two matched pairs have sold on ebay in the last 60 days for less than $100. Don't know anything about the sellers and I generally walk away without any information in a listing regarding how the tubes test. If the seller hasn't tested the tubes then I don't want them.

 The 5998s are still scarce by any sensible definition, and I have seen prices on eBay in the $150 to $200 range for a matched pair fairly often. That Jack at Woo Audio no longer has a reliable source for them and is no longer offering them as a tube upgrade for the WA2 says a lot. 

 I don't want to argue about it. Suffice it to say that the supply has dried up considerably in the course of the last year and a half and there are some dealers pricing their wares accordingly. Fair enough?

 --Jerome_

 

I don't disagree with any of that. And the 5998 has never been a tube with "plentiful" supply - it was just not produced in enough quantity.

 I bought 3 pairs when AES had them for $29.99 each - guess I am glad I did. 

 OTOH, 6AS7G's remain cheap as dirt, and they sound pretty darned good. I am using Tung-Sol black-plate, halo-getter 6AS7G's in my DV 337 right now - I got these from AES for $8 each, NOS/NIB! Normally when you order 6AS7G's from AES what you get are RCA's of course, but it helps to call them - you never know what they have in stock.

 Regarding buying off EBay - if you have even a simple emissions tube tester, and you buy from sellers who offer a refund for bad tubes, you are safe. I bought my little B&K 606 tester for $65 - it was in great condition and a VERY worthwhile purchase. I later bought a bigger Mutual Transcoductance tester, but this was just because I wanted one - for someone who wants to buy vintage tubes, a simple emissions tester will let you do this essentially risk free. I have never had a tube seller refuse to replace or refund a tube I bought off EBay that wasn't good. Just don't buy the "sold as-is" auctions.


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## jsaliga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Regarding buying off EBay - if you have even a simple emissions tube tester, and you buy from sellers who offer a refund for bad tubes, you are safe. I bought my little B&K 606 tester for $65 - it was in great condition and a VERY worthwhile purchase. I later bought a bigger Mutual Transcoductance tester, but this was just because I wanted one - for someone who wants to buy vintage tubes, a simple emissions tester will let you do this essentially risk free. I have never had a tube seller refuse to replace or refund a tube I bought off EBay that wasn't good. Just don't buy the "sold as-is" auctions._

 

Excellent advice!

 --Jerome


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## HeatFan12

Thanks for the close-up pic Jerome. It looks like there _is_ enough space for the base of the 6080s.....

 X2 on "sold as is" when it comes to tubes. Did it once, never again....


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## xenithon

Right, picked up the GEC 6080's for a decent price. Also got a pair of NOS Philips Miniwatt E88CC/6922 tubes. Both have shipped and should be here in a couple weeks.

 In terms of rectifiers, I am not sure if they make much difference in the WA2. I can get some NOS Bugle Boys (made in France) for a decent price. Anyone ever try these?


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## Skylab

I would try them. I have no clue about in the WA2, but in every other amp I have that uses rectifier tubes, they definitely make a difference, and those Amperexes are some nice tubes I bet.


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## mmwwhats

I asked Jack about the improvement that rectifiers offer in the WA2 and about the improvement in sound from the new power supply mod. Still haven't heard back from him, but will post him reply as soon as I do.


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## Brighten

Besides eBay (I missed the auction for the two sets of 5998s), where else could someone suggest for getting the Tung Sol 5998 tube?


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## jenneth

You can try Tubeworld . $135 for a pair of JAN-5998 Tungsol.


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## Brighten

Yuck!

 I sure wish they produced more of these tubes... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks though


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## swoon

i spend the weekend with a pair of Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s. nice refinements in the mids, made the backgrounds a bit blacker. i'm not sure if rolling this socket is worth big bucks, but it does add noticeable improvements to the overall sound.


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## swoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the info Jerome.

 I know I have asked several times before but to no avail, however, since you have had a WA2 for 18 months, you might know- Do you have any problems fitting any 6080/7236 tubes in the slot. The space looks tight for their bases and I have a bunch of 6080s. Want to make sure they fit, if not, order the extender or more 6AS7 tubes before my WA2 arrives.

 Thanks in advance.

 Jes_

 

the 6080s i have fit, but it's pretty snug.


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## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the 6080s i have fit, but it's pretty snug._

 


 Good deal...Thanks for the info swoon....


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## Brighten

For those with the 5998s,

 Are they a big difference over the stock tubes or a small difference? 

 Remember, this is as opposed to a "subtle" one.


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## mmwwhats

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brighten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those with the 5998s,

 Are they a big difference over the stock tubes or a small difference?_

 

Also a questions regarding the 5998s: Do they make the amp sound more SS or more tubey? If I wanted to get a tubey sound what tube should I use for power? 6080, 5998, 6AS7 maybe... Also what brand of tube?

 Oh yeah, and nother bump/reminder to anyone who has the current version of the WA2, can you please post internal pics so we can get some insight as to what was done (and post impressions).


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## Skylab

For me, in general, the "tubiest" is the RCA grey-plate 6AS7G. The 5998 is a little less tubey than any 6AS7G I have tried.


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## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmwwhats* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also a questions regarding the 5998s: Do they make the amp sound more SS or more tubey? If I wanted to get a tubey sound what tube should I use for power? 6080, 5998, 6AS7 maybe... Also what brand of tube?

 Oh yeah, and nother bump/reminder to anyone who has the current version of the WA2, can you please post internal pics so we can get some insight as to what was done (and post impressions)._

 

You may get yours before me but when I get it I definetely will.


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## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me, in general, the "tubiest" is the RCA grey-plate 6AS7G. The 5998 is a little less tubey than any 6AS7G I have tried._

 

Nice... thanks Skylab. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At the rate that the 5998s are going now, I think I might be getting the 6AS7Gs...


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## mmwwhats

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me, in general, the "tubiest" is the RCA grey-plate 6AS7G. The 5998 is a little less tubey than any 6AS7G I have tried._

 

Is the RCA grey-plate 6AS7G as much of an upgrade over the stock tubes at the Tung Sol 5998.... is it even an upgrade at all? Any detail/explanation would be appreciated.... oh yeah and a good place to buy 'em.


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## Skylab

The stock tubes are the GE 6AS7GA? I do think the RCA's are better, and they are dirt cheap.


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## mmwwhats

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The stock tubes are the GE 6AS7GA? I do think the RCA's are better, and they are dirt cheap._

 

What's your dirt cheap source, becaues tubeworld.com is selling Black and Gray plate NOS pairs for around $80 and $65 respectively?


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## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmwwhats* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's your dirt cheap source, becaues tubeworld.com is selling Black and Gray plate NOS pairs for around $80 and $65 respectively?_

 

Maybe eBay?


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## swoon

i would hope that the RCA black/grey plates sound a lot better than the RCA/JAN black plates - because the latter sounded awfully muddled in the mids, and while they were really "tube" sounding they didn't have the clarity of the 6080s which are are pretty "tube" sounding in their own right. both tubes i agree sound more "tube" sounding than the 5998s though i still prefer those over what i've heard so far.


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## Skylab

$10 each at Antique Electronic Supply - $5 each if you buy used!


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## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$10 each at Antique Electronic Supply - $5 each if you buy used!_

 

Thanks!


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## xenithon

Oh bollocks....just received my NOS G.E.C 6080 black-plates. Unfortunately the base is a little too wide; a little frustrating given as the socket is labelled _6080_






 The pins go in, but not all the way; probably around 50-70%. I assume this is unsafe and may damage the tube and/or amp? Anyone know where to get some decent octal socket extenders (or socket savers I believe they are called)?


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## Skylab

This is because the socket itself is below the chassis, not flush with it?

 As long as decent electrical contact is made and it's not intermittent in any way, it's probably OK, but my guess is it won't be at 50% insertion.


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## xenithon

Yes, the socket sits at a countersunk level to the cutout as seen below:






 I just measured with an electronic vernier: the depth of the countersink is ~4.48mm; the entire pin length is around 10.8mm, but they are about a millimeter countersunk to the brown base, if you know what I mean. So from flush with brown base to end of pin is ~9.8mm. Also as you can see in the photo I posted above, the brown base is flat on the perimeter of the cutout, so the pins are not exposed to the elements (or sticky fingers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


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## Skylab

Hmmmm...this sounds a little scary. I guess you may need to stick with the 5998's you ordered


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## JayG

Jack tells me my WA2 should ship out tomorrow, and it just has to make it from Queens to Manhattan.

 Just wanted to let everyone know you should be seeing external/internal/tube glowing pictures soon as well as some preliminary impressions. Don't expect me to comment on the sound too much until I've had a couple weeks with the amp, though.

 Also, I have 5998s, Bugle Boy 6DJ8s, and late '40s Amperex Holland 6V4s ready to roll. But again, I won't switch over to them until I'm familiar with the stock sound.

 A little later down the road, you'll also get to hear what the WA2 makes of the new HD800s. Couldn't resist the temptation of my brand new high-power OTL amp combined with a new reference-class 300-ohm headphone, so I'm in on Headroom's first batch of pre-orders. I figure with the WA2, GS1000s, HD650s, and HD800s, I should be good for a while. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: Also, at this point I would like to give Jack props for quoting a build time to a customer and making it happen. This should be a foregone conclusion when buying a high-priced niche item such as this, but as we have seen time and again from other businesses, it seems to be the exception rather than the rule. I can't believe some of these other builders continue to have people make purchases with them, when they say something like 8 weeks (a long time already), and instead deliver in 6+ months (if ever). Granted, I don't have my amp just yet, but Jack quoted me a 4 week build time at the time of purchase, and if it does indeed ship tomorrow, it will mark 4 weeks and 1 day. Since I ordered it in the evening, and it probably needs to have been finished today in order to ship tomorrow, the build time for my amp was 3 weeks and 6 days. I'm just sayin...


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## mmwwhats

Anyone hear/know anything about 6H13C tubes for the WA2? Jack has suggested using them with the WA2 if using K701 headphones, because the tubes output more power apparently. However, Jack hasn't responded to multiple e-mails asking if they improve the sound. Anyone know?


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## xenithon

I also enquired about it a while ago. He said _I would recommend it, as they sound better than the 5998A_ - bearing in mind that my WA2 shipped stock with a pair of GE-JAN 5998A's.


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## Skylab

If it is more power you need, then the 5998 is the tube to use. Much higher GM than a normal 6AS7G. I always thought the Russian 6H13C had the same exact specs as a 6AS7...never looked though.


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## Gvvt

JayG, you're right about Jack's scheduling. My WA2 was shipped a day before the 4-week estimate he gave back in December.

 It arrived yesterday, well packed, as everyone has mentioned. And absolutely beautiful - black. I got to admire it for a while as it returned to room temperature after riding around in the below zero chill we're experiencing in Vermont.

 GE 6080 / Philips JAN 6922 / International Servicemaster (???) 6V4.

 Very initial impression: even the break-period is going to be a blast. Detail and soundstage were impressive in the first minutes, and over three or four hours of listening, highs began to fill out. The Hoquetus cd by the Theatre of Voices was magical - vocal lines, spatial definition, tone color, DETAIL.

 Tubes will roll, but for now, WOW.


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## Judicata

I got the 6H13cs for the K701 per Jack's recommendation.

 I can tell you that I don't have to turn the volume knob up as high with the 6H13Cs as I did for the stock tubes.

 I haven't swapped the stock tubes back yet to compare them, so I won't comment on the sound. All I can say is it doesn't sound significantly worse, but may sound better. Just don't know.


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## mmwwhats

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Judicata* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the 6H13cs for the K701 per Jack's recommendation... it doesn't sound significantly worse, but may sound better. Just don't know._

 

Not exactly a glowing recommendation... I'm going to try to find a pair of RCA 6AS7G. But, first I'll evaluate the stock tubes. Shipping estimate is next week, so I'll probably have it the week after.


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## xenithon

Installed a very nice NOS pair of Philips Miniwatt EZ80 tubes. Call it placebo, but the background seems quiet and the bass goes just that little deeper than with the stock rectifiers


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## Skylab

I doubt it is placebo. Rectifier tubes absolutely have an impact on sound, and I bet those are nice tubes


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## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I* doubt it is placebo.* Rectifier tubes absolutely have an impact on sound, and I bet those are nice tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Me too, at first I thought changing the rectifier tubes would have a bigger impact than the power tubes.


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## librarian

Did anyone try this tube in the wa2?

Winged "C" 6H13C / 6AS7G


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## Skylab

I haven't tried it in the WA2, but in other 6AS7G amps, the Russian 6H13C has not sounded nearly as good, to me, as even the RCA, which can easily be had cheap.


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## librarian

After spending a couple of days looking for tubes (this is my first time, and there are so many numbers and brands, I really think it's a jungle out there!), I'm not even sure how much I care, if they are cheap. Just want them to be good. Everyone around here praises the Tung-Sol 5998, but they are hard to find. 

 Skylab (or others), can you recommend me an internet tube shop, where I can pay with VISA, and where I might find these RCA's?


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## Drag0n

Saving for a WA2......Hope he makes this amp for a long time and tubes stay available.
 Im hoping jan/feb order.


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## IceClass

Would anyone care to recommend some 6x4 rectifiers?


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## Skylab

I am generally partial to Sylvania black-plates.


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## fatcat28037

Woo is now shipping Sylvania 7236 in place of the 5998. I ordered a pair yesterday.


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## pzm9pzm9

I once ordered Tungsol 7236 from WooAudio, but they turned out to be defective within one day. So they sent me new one but this time Sylvania 7236. I liked Tungsol 7236 little better than Sylvania for having little more full body sounding. And the red printing on Tungsol was beautiful! But the SQ difference was small I didn't care to send them back for Tungsol. Jack liked Sylvania 7236 more than Tungsol when I asked him in e-mail. I also have asked Skylab and he liked Tungsol more, like I did.
 But in the end, I think Tungsol 5998 is THE tube to use for the full body sounding. If you own WA2 you gotta try Tungsol 5998!!!


----------



## Skylab

The 5998 is a MUCH better sounding tube than the 7236, IMO. But among 7236's, I do indeed like the Tung-Sol better.


----------



## pzm9pzm9

I really won't know what to do if my set of 5998 dies... It is so hard to find matched pair!
 Speaking of matched tubes, do we only need matched tubes for power tubes? I am trying to get a pair of EZ80, but I am not sure if they need to be matched. any help?


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But in the end, I think Tungsol 5998 is THE tube to use for the full body sounding. If you own WA2 you gotta try Tungsol 5998!!!_

 

I guess I kind of lucked out as my WooToo arrived with a pair of TungSol 5998s, philips jan 6922s & GE Jan 6x4 (6202 USA).

 Any recommendations as to where to roll from here bearing in mind this is an early WooToo if that makes any difference.


----------



## Skylab

You can do much better than the Jan Phillips 6922. But you can spend a lot in the process.

 Lots of good info about the 6922/6DJ8 here: Joe's Tube Lore


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can do much better than the Jan Phillips 6922. But you can spend a lot in the process.

 Lots of good info about the 6922/6DJ8 here: Joe's Tube Lore_

 

Ha! The article! I remember reading it when I was so excited about tube rollin'

 Anyway, I x2 agree 6992 can be replaced. The most expensive yet worth to upgrade.


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am generally partial to Sylvania black-plates._

 

Just ordered a pair of them off fleabay. Thanks for the rec.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really won't know what to do if my set of 5998 dies... It is so hard to find matched pair!
 Speaking of matched tubes, do we only need matched tubes for power tubes? I am trying to get a pair of EZ80, but I am not sure if they need to be matched. any help?_

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I was distinctly under the impression that tubes don't need to be matched on the Woos.
 Now I'm doubting myself.






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can do much better than the Jan Phillips 6922. But you can spend a lot in the process.
_

 

On hand, I have 2 pair of the Jan Philips, a pair of the Electro Harmonix 6992EH, a pair of Sylvania JAR and lastly a pair of Westinghouse 6DJ8/ECC88. I'm assuming that 6922 and 6DJ8s are interchangeable.


 I'm quite thoroughly confused with the 5099 tubes. I have a pair of Tung Sols which I gather is good news but I'm confused it the 5099 is a drop in replacement for any 6088 or 6AS7?
 In other words, are the 6088,6AS7 and 5099 all interchangeable?


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha! The article! I remember reading it when I was so excited about tube rollin'

 Anyway, I x2 agree 6992 can be replaced. The most expensive yet worth to upgrade._

 

As the owner of a WooToo, what tube compliment do you use?


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As the owner of a WooToo, what tube compliment do you use?_

 

Amperex PQ 6922 (63') bought it from e-bay. Someone tried to see where my limit was at the last minute... ended up paying ALOT

 As far as tubes matching, I am 100% sure power tubes needs to be matched. I e-mailed Jack about power tube matching couple months ago, he said non-matched pair will not cause any harm to the amp, but will sound not right (I think he means unbalanced volume level.)


----------



## librarian

How does Sylvania 7236 OR Tung-Sol 7236 and RCA 6as7g compare?


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *librarian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does Sylvania 7236 OR Tung-Sol 7236 and RCA 6as7g compare?_

 

I haven't tried RCA 6as7g for a long time. From my fuzzy memory, RCA was linear sounding.... better than the stock GE tubes but not up to the level of 7236s.
 They are pretty cheap, but I would rather save those money and get 7236 or 5998.


----------



## librarian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't tried RCA 6as7g for a long time. From my fuzzy memory, RCA was linear sounding.... better than the stock GE tubes but not up to the level of 7236s.
 They are pretty cheap, but I would rather save those money and get 7236 or 5998._

 

I thought so. I couldn't find a matched pair of 5998 anywhere, so I just ordered Tung-Sol 7236 from Wooaudio. Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I'm quite thoroughly confused with the 5099 tubes. I have a pair of Tung Sols which I gather is good news but I'm confused it the 5099 is a drop in replacement for any 6088 or 6AS7?
 In other words, are the 6088,6AS7 and 5099 all interchangeable?_

 

OK so with tubes, the EXACT numbers matter, and those are wrong.

 The 6AS7G is the exact equivalent of only the 6080 (NOT 6088). Other than appearance, these tubes are the same.

 The 5998 (*not* 5099), 7236, and 2399 are all similar to the 6AS7G, but they are not the same tube. Clearly, however, they will work in the WA2, since Woo sells them. And they will work in *most* 6AS7G amps, but it's not a guarantee.

 The 6520 is sometimes a 6AS7G, and sometimes a 5998, just to make things more interesting.


----------



## Seamaster

to me GEC 6AS7G and 6080 are the only way to go.


----------



## herroyuihk

I found Rectifier is also very important.
 Telefunken EZ80 has tight bass, but it is too exciting
 On the contrary Mullard EZ80 square getter is too soft.
 In WA2, We need to combine three type3 tube into a harmonious integrity, so rectifier may break this balance
 Jack tell me Wa2 can also use EZ81(EZ80 is a little rare than EZ81....)
 So I can go to find Goldlion U709=EZ81
 It is also very rare tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And....very expensive ........
 If I found it is very good for Wa2, I will report ....


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *herroyuihk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found Rectifier is also very important.
 Telefunken EZ80 has tight bass, but it is too exciting
 On the contrary Mullard EZ80 square getter is too soft.
 In WA2, We need to combine three type3 tube into a harmonious integrity, so rectifier may break this balance
 Jack tell me Wa2 can also use EZ81(EZ80 is a little rare than EZ81....)
 So I can go to find Goldlion U709=EZ81
 It is also very rare tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And....very expensive ........
 If I found it is very good for Wa2, I will report .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Did you buy them as a matched pair? NO ONE was able to give me an answer if they need to be matched


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you buy them as a matched pair? NO ONE was able to give me an answer if they need to be matched
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Okay. is my question too dumb to ask or what
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Frankly, I have asked this same question like 3 times in the past and came up with no answer each times. I would wet my hands on EZ80 only if I know if they needs to be matched. So if there is anybody out there who knows the answer to my noobie question, please spare your little time to educate me.


----------



## herroyuihk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay. is my question too dumb to ask or what
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Frankly, I have asked this same question like 3 times in the past and came up with no answer each times. I would wet my hands on EZ80 only if I know if they needs to be matched. So if there is anybody out there who knows the answer to my noobie question, please spare your little time to educate me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The main reason is tube sellers all say that Rectifier doesn't need to be matched...
 But I think sometimes it shoud be matched.
 I can feel strange when some rectifiers are not matched.
 Moreover, some tube tester is not so accurate, like TV-7? or someseller's tube tester isn't cailbrated.
 They say that these tubes are matched, and I also don't hear a very balance sound. So.....


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK so with tubes, the EXACT numbers matter, and those are wrong.

 The 6AS7G is the exact equivalent of only the 6080 (NOT 6088). Other than appearance, these tubes are the same.

 The 5998 (*not* 5099), 7236, and 2399 are all similar to the 6AS7G, but they are not the same tube. Clearly, however, they will work in the WA2, since Woo sells them. And they will work in *most* 6AS7G amps, but it's not a guarantee.

 The 6520 is sometimes a 6AS7G, and sometimes a 5998, just to make things more interesting._

 

Thanks for the explanations there SkyLab. I'd been cruising Ebay to look at tubes and my mind was a mess of numbers.

 So, I'm assuming that the WA2 has always used the same Power tubes and only the rectifier tubes have been changed. Therefore, my WooToo should handle any of the 5998/7236/23996AS7G power tubes.
 As for the 5998 tubes, what are the variants? I see them advertised as black gate, triple mica etc What do these terms refer to and are some better than others?


----------



## Seamaster

"The 6AS7G is the exact equivalent of only the 6080. Other than appearance, these tubes are the same."

 but they sound different


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the explanations there SkyLab. I'd been cruising Ebay to look at tubes and my mind was a mess of numbers.

 So, I'm assuming that the WA2 has always used the same Power tubes and only the rectifier tubes have been changed. Therefore, my WooToo should handle any of the 5998/7236/23996AS7G power tubes.
 As for the 5998 tubes, what are the variants? I see them advertised as black gate, triple mica etc What do these terms refer to and are some better than others?_

 

All 5998's are made by Tung-Sol, and they are all pretty much the same. Some have a top-getter, and some a bottom getter, but I have never detected any difference in the sound of 5998's. 

 There is also the GE-made 5998-A, but these are not a real 5998, and don't sound any better than GE's straight-bottle 6AS7GA.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"The 6AS7G is the exact equivalent of only the 6080. Other than appearance, these tubes are the same."

 but they sound different_

 

Oh yes, most definitely - they are just the same in terms of operation points/electrical properties. But I much prefer the 6AS7G over the 6080, universally.


----------



## Seamaster

GEC, Macorni make two different style 6AS7G. One with straight brown or black base, one with cup brown or black base. At $150+ a pair, look no further on 6AS7G type, it is end of road.

 One question pop up in my head:
 Can we use different other tube with adapter to replace 6AS7/6080 type? Anyone?


----------



## Skylab

The GEC ("cup" brown base) are my favorite 6AS7G as well.


----------



## IceClass

What's the difference between 6AS7 and 6AS7G tubes?


----------



## Seamaster

6AS7 is mother type. 6AS7G is sub division of the family. Most europian use 6AS7G code, or A1834

 Skylab explained:

 The 6080 is identical in performance to the 6AS7G. The 6AS7G is a ST/"Coke Bottle" glass type, whereas the 6080 is straight bottle. I almost universally prefer the 6AS7G. I have about 100 6AS7G/6080/6520/5998 tubes.
 And it is the 6520, not the 6528, that is equivalent to the 6AS7G. The 6520 was only made by Tung-sol.

 Of the US Makers, RCA-branded 6AS7G’s are by far the most common, and they sound good. Tung-Sol also made 6AS7’s, and they are a little better sounding IMO than the RCA’s (they are also constructed a little differently), but they are much harder to find, and not worth paying an enormous premium for. GE, Sylvania, Chatham and Raytheon also made 6AS7G’s, but they also don’t seem to offer anything the RCA’s don’t sonically, IMO. There are other brands available, but I am pretty sure they are just branded versions of the other manufacturers listed. The JAN (Joint Army Navy) versions were supposedly somehow selected specially (tighter tolerances, etc), but there are no construction differences with the non-military versions. I have seen JAN-6AS7G’s from RCA, GE, Tung-sol, and Chatham (which at one point was bought by Tung-Sol). 

 The GEC UK-made 6AS7G (A1834) are my favorite of the 6AS7G - they have brown bases and a different plate structure than the US types. 

 Finally, there are the Russian equivalent 6N13S, but I really don’t care for these. I have seen Amperex 6AS7G’s that say "made in Holland", and Ultron "made in W. Germany", but both of these were almost certainly Russian. 

 The primary construction differences in a 6AS7G are that some are made with a top halo getter (and the resulting chrome top flashing appearance) and some with bottom-mounted D getters (where the flashing is at the base and the tube has a “clear top” appearance). RCA also made “Grey Plate” and “Black Plate” versions – all other makers 6AS7G’s have black plates. Supposedly the Black plates sound better, but I believe this is either untrue or extremely subtle at best. Some also have an additional metal “skirting” shielding the wiring as it travels from the base to the grid, but I have not been able to attribute any real sonic differences there either. Bottom line – any Western 6AS7G is a good choice, as long as it’s in good shape and isn’t horribly microphonic.

 There is also the 5998 tube, made only by Tung-Sol regardless of branding, which does have different operating characteristics, and may or may not work in any given 6AS7G application, although it does in the amps I have, snd sounds a little better than most 6AS7G's. In general the 5998 offers slightly more neutral sound, slightly better transparency, and are less likely to be noisy. They are approximately 2-3x the price, generally, and I have seen some idiots paying $50 per tube on Ebay when you can buy them NOS from reputable online tube-sellers for $25 each. Still, this is more than double the 6AS7G price. 

 The 2399 is also a Tung-Sol only tube, and I have never scored one myself, but supposedly it is also just a high-quality 6AS7G.

 In general, the 6AS7G is a great sounding tube, IMO. I probably know more about this tube than any other tube type, as I have 4 different headphone amps that use it, and there isn't a lot written about it like there is with tubes like the 12AX7 or 6SN7...


----------



## Skylab

The "G" indicates the bottle type - the ST/coke-bottle/"shoulder" type bottle - as opposed to the GA and GB, which are straight-bottle. All 6080's are also straight-bottle.


----------



## Seamaster

Skylab: What do you thing Telefukan 6080WA (made in Germany)? Any good?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab: What do you thing Telefukan 6080WA (made in Germany)? Any good?_

 

In spite of being labeled "Made In Germany", I am virtually certain they are not - I think they are rebranded, probably from Philips, but maybe GE.

 The "Telefunken" 6AS7G's I have seen are *definitely* Russian rebranded tubes. I don't think Telefunken ever made this type of tube.


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can do much better than the Jan Phillips 6922. But you can spend a lot in the process._

 

I tried rolling the with the 6922s I had on hand for ****s & giggles. 
 Surprisingly, both the Electro-Harmonix 6922EH and the Sylvanias gave me a faint hum. Neither had given me any issues in previous use in my Dodd ELP preamp.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 And no kidding about how much one can spend on a matched pair of wee little 6922s these days. Do folks really pay over $200?


----------



## Skylab

I personally will not spend that much on a 6922, but some people clearly will!


----------



## herroyuihk

Hello every woo user
 I have rolled tons of tubes combination...
 Sadly speaking! I have not bought Gold lion U709 yet....
 But the best sounding Rectifier is 60~70s round getter Mullard EZ81....
 (Square getter mullard EZ81 or 80 is very slow and lacking dynamic??)
 The followings are my favorite e88cc + 6AS7 combination...
 1.Siemens CCa A1-4........................+ GEC 6AS7...............
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (GEC is used...I will try my best to find very good nos GEC 6AS7 )
 2.Valvo(philips Holland) E88CC D-getter + Tungsol 7236..........
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 3.Telefunken CCa .............................+ Tungsol 7236..........
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 GEC is too thick and warm for Holland tubes 
 And when GEC is paired with TFK, amp will lack impact....
 Sylvania 7236 is quiet good....(I still try its best combination)
 So I don't think any brand or Type 6as7 is really superior to others.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Have you tried Mullard CV2984's (6080's)? Very musical tube.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried Mullard CV2984's (6080's)? Very musical tube._

 

If he thinks GEC is too thick and warm for him, then CV2984 even more so.


----------



## BIG POPPA

All my cables are silver plated and or have Rhodium connectors, My MS-1's have a Silver plated copper cable. Don't get the Warm sound too much, just get the Silky smooth. Silver is a little pain to break in but once you do it is great, to me it helps with some of the faults of tubes. Makes my listening more enjoyable.


----------



## Seamaster

double post, sorry


----------



## Seamaster

I drop in RCA 6AS7G gray plate this afternoon. I am having 6 day weekend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








. They sound little dry compare to GEC 6AS7G more 2D sounding, especially in mid range. GEC is smooth through out the range while maintain dynamic and attack, no dips anywhere, sound louder too. Not bad for the money at all. But if looking for the best, go GEC. 

 Again the difference between power tubes not as great as driver and rectifiers


----------



## herroyuihk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If he thinks GEC is too thick and warm for him, then CV2984 even more so._

 

As I said, My condition of GEC may be not so good.
 Maybe NOS GEC also is full of dynamic ?
 However, if I combine too many euro-brand tubes in one machine(in spite of siemens), It will produce too warm or thick sound.
 Maybe I should try US brand rectifier....later
 But at this moment, I want to enjoy my tubes....for a while.


----------



## LeMat

Seems I'm gonne bring this thread back to life... 

 I'm using a WA2 for a year now but my pre-tube have started to make some noise. I have 2 sylvania 6922, both slighlty noisy and 1 EH-6922 gold that I consider dead (awfully noisy and less bright than its sister). 
 So I have to find a replacement... What would you suggest without going crazy expensive. say 120$ /pair ? I'm looking for something with a lots of clarity/detail and punch. (FYI I use TS-5998 and telefunken EZ-80)
 I was thinking at tungsram 6922 red or tesla 6922 but that's just an idea.
 7302's appears to be over budget from what I've seen.
 I just what to bring my WA2 back to a good sound since I probably won't use it as much as I used to (Beta22 95% done... 5% to go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 thanks


----------



## stocklaz

I also gave my $$ to Jack last week for a WA2, learned a lot in this post about tube rolling!


----------



## Henerenry

Anyone know where I can find a matched pair of GEC 6AS7G brown base tubes?


----------



## oldwine

Dear all,

 After doing some searches, i find most people using WA2 are using it with the Senn. only, any people using it with other cans, e.g. DT880, AKGs, etc.??

 Also, i'd like to know for three types of tubes in WA2, which one would be the first to roll??


----------



## Double F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henerenry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know where I can find a matched pair of GEC 6AS7G brown base tubes?_

 

It is very tough. I kept checking Ebay and found a pair after 2 months. Also check the UK Ebay site and use the European type; A1834 - CV2523 - EI834.


----------



## Double F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dear all,

 After doing some searches, i find most people using WA2 are using it with the Senn. only, any people using it with other cans, e.g. DT880, AKGs, etc.??

 Also, i'd like to know for three types of tubes in WA2, which one would be the first to roll??_

 

I'm using Beyer T1s and find the sound stunning. A OTL like the WA2 works great with high ohm cans like T1s . I've used Denons with this amp and with good performance, but not as good as the Beyers.

 I rolled the power tube first because I did not get the Upgrade and I prefer the Tung-sol 7236 over the Sylvania woo is offering. Vacuum tube dot net have NOS Tung-sol 7236s for $36 each.
 I did the Drive tubes second and the rectifier 3rd


----------



## ekim

Does level of fatique vary from one tube to another?
 - vary between tube types?
 - vary between tubes within the same type?
 - vary if same tube used in different components?

 I am new to tube gears, and answers to the above questions would help me to decide whether to order a WA2 or go with a SS headphone amp.

 Thank you in advance for the responses.


----------



## rich.no

Quote: 





ekim said:


> Does level of fatique vary from one tube to another?
> - vary between tube types?





   

  I experienced fatigue with the Sylvania 7236 tubes in my WA2 with K702 headphones. The russian 6N13S, however, aren't fatiguing at all.


----------



## tink97

Hello everyone,
   
  OK so I just order a WA2!  I am so excited to get this baby after spending the last few weeks reading threads and reviews.  
   
  I just got the stock version for everything, figuring on spending the left over money on tubes.  Which brings me to my question.  I have read that people highly praise the Tung sol 5998 tubes and also amperex bugle boy or orange globe 6DJ8.
   
  Does anyone have any recommendations for a good rectifier tube?  
   
  I enjoy jazz and classical music and will be using them with my beyer dt880 600 ohms.  
   
  Thanks all have a great day
   
  tink97


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Quote: 





tink97 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> OK so I just order a WA2!  I am so excited to get this baby after spending the last few weeks reading threads and reviews.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Im so glad to see this thread came alive !!
   
  From what I read, the rectifier tubes don't change much of the sound quality. (when compared to swapping 6AS7s and 6922s)
   
  Plus, there aren't many choices for EZ80s. (maybe not... im not sure)   I also wonder if you need to buy matched pair for this one??
   
  Anyway, I always say this and will say again. TS5998 is a must have tubes for WA2!  These power tubes make your WA2 powerful
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If TS5998 brings the power to the amp, 6992 brings the resolutions. I was suprised at the differences that 6992 makes.
   
  For 6992 information, try this site:
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
   
  read up to part 2.

 Note that there are many fake bugle boys around. (I think I read that somewhere on last year)
   
  hope you like the dt880 & WA2 combo. I surely do


----------



## oldwine

Hey dink97,
   
  I am also using WA2 with DT880/600. I have replaced my rectifier from stock one to RCA 6V4. it sound a bit warmer than the original one.
   
  I also agree that u should consider to roll the other 2 types - the driver and power tube first, before thinking on the rectifier as it only have little adjustment.


----------



## Skylab

The Mullard EZ80 are pretty nice!


----------



## oldwine

Any place you recommend to get them??
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Mullard EZ80 are pretty nice!


----------



## Skylab

Unfortunately, other than EBay, no.


----------



## tink97

Good evening everyone,
   
  I have a question about buying tubes.  I have looked at audiogon and ebay and am wondering are these an ok place to buy tubes from or is it just way better to buy stuff from a actually tube dealer?  I am really new to this idea of tubes so just wanted to get some feedback before I bite the bullet on purchasing upgrade tubes for my stock WA2.  Also can a bad tube hurt the amp or does the tube just stop working?  In general is there a way to see if a tube is bad if you don't have a tube tester? 
  Thank you all for any help you can offer
   
  tink97


----------



## StanT

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> Any place you recommend to get them??


 

 I bought 2 pairs from Billington Export a month ago. Listed as  EZ80 Mullard Mazda Grade One Tube. I would have been happy with either, They shipped D getter Mullards. Grade 1 seems to mean reboxed, no sign of use.
   
  http://www.tube-and-valve-electronics.co.uk


----------



## stufaro

Does anyone know how the Tung Sol 6As7G sounds in this amp?


----------



## Skylab

Very, very good. the TungSol 6AS7G is one of the best, IMO.


----------



## stufaro

Thanks Skylab. So next ? is.... Do you know what I should pay for a matched pair new to rolling tubes dont wanna over pay.


----------



## Skylab

That varies widely. A quad just sold on EBay for $71. I thought that way cheap. They tend to do for about $50 a pair or so (I mean Tung Sol's specifically).


----------



## stufaro

yeah I just won those on ebay my gut said that was a good price thanks so much for the info I cannot wait to get some different tubes


----------



## avsBuddy

Just posted several pictures of my new WA2 over at the main Woo forum for those interested.


----------



## stufaro

little off topic as far as the WA2 goes but anyone know a good 12ax7 tube, need them for my phono stage and I have no idea about this tube. Something that has very little noise and detailed mids and highs is what I am looking for. Dont wanna spend more than 80$ for a pair.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stufaro said:


> little off topic as far as the WA2 goes but anyone know a good 12ax7 tube, need them for my phono stage and I have no idea about this tube. Something that has very little noise and detailed mids and highs is what I am looking for. Dont wanna spend more than 80$ for a pair.


 


 My favourites are NOS Sylvania gray plate triple micas from the 1950s-1960s. The GE 5 Star NOS is also very good. For the current still in production tubes, my favourite (by far) is the Genalex Gold Lion.
   
  Now back to your regularly scheduled program...


----------



## lukaskite

For all Wa 2 users i just posted my EZ80 rectifier impresions here:
   

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/402215/the-woo-audio-2/510#post_7243933

   

  Hope it helps someone.

   

  Cheers!


----------



## ardilla

Thanks! Nice review


----------



## owidjaja

Hi guys has anybody use a pair E188CC siemens brand a Driver tube for the WA2?


----------



## librarian

1. I have tungsol5998 power tubes. Is there any better (affordable) tubes?
   
  2. How much will changing the rectifier tubes change the sound? And do you have any recommandations for me?
   
  I love the soundstage of WA2 and would hate to lose some of that...
   
  3. Also how much can I improve the preamp section by rolling the preamp tubes?
   
  I'd like to have more gain on the preamp...
   
  Note: my unit is a standard WA2 bought in 2008 (that means no cap upgrades and such...)


----------



## Rawrbington

ive got two different rectifier tubes that ive put in mine and i never noticed a difference.
   
  from what i've heard the 5998s are the best but ive only heard 6080 and 6AS7G
   
  preamp tubes will make more of a difference than the rectifier tubes


----------



## hodgjy

Depends on your music preferences.  What do you like to listen to?
  
  Quote: 





librarian said:


> 1. I have tungsol5998 power tubes. Is there any better (affordable) tubes?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

1. TS 5998 are pretty good tubes. As long as they're in good working condition and you like the sound, I would be in no hurry to upgrade them. I personally preferred TS and Sylvania 7236 to the 5998s, but by a very, very small margin.
   
  2. I found very little difference in changing rectifiers. Even though I had several more expensive pairs, I generally stuck with the Ei EZ80s that Jack provides with the amp.
   
  3. Yes, you should see noticeable results from rolling preamp tubes. What are you using now? I really liked US-made Amperex 7308s (I used both green and orange globe versions). Would run you about $150 at Upscale Audio.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> 1. TS 5998 are pretty good tubes. As long as they're in good working condition and you like the sound, I would be in no hurry to upgrade them. I personally preferred TS and Sylvania 7236 to the 5998s, but by a very, very small margin.
> 
> 2. I found very little difference in changing rectifiers. Even though I had several more expensive pairs, I generally stuck with the Ei EZ80s that Jack provides with the amp.
> 
> 3. Yes, you should see noticeable results from rolling preamp tubes. What are you using now? I really liked US-made Amperex 7308s (I used both green and orange globe versions). Would run you about $150 at Upscale Audio.


 

 X2
   
  However, considering the prices of the 7236 vs 5998 the margin is much bigger for me, in favor of 7236.


----------



## owidjaja

Does changing driver tube Change the sound a lot? sorry i am new to tube amp


----------



## Rawrbington

for me the drive tubes affect the brightness more than anything else.
   
  but it could just be the tubes i have tried


----------



## webegrubbin

I currently have the Tung Sol 5998s.  Is it even worth it for me to buy the 7236s?  What differences can I expect to hear?  My friend can get NOS Sylvania 7236 for $50 from this store near his house.  Is that worth it?


----------



## Rawrbington

i've never heard the 7236 but its on my list.
  a lot of people liked the 5998 better it seemed.
  but lately the 7236 has been talked about and recommended a lot.
  im sure it has a different sound and wouldn't be a bad back up if nothing else.
   
  just be sure and check the return policy


----------



## librarian

Thanks for your responses
   
  I think I have  the sylvania 7236 stored somewhere. I liked the 5998 better. I wanted HD650 to have a little more bass respons, and from what I recall, the 5998 has more bass. My listening preferences has changed some since then. By now I like a brighter sound. Maybe I should give the sylvanias a second try...
   
  I listen to all kinds of music. Jazz, soul, reggae, pop. For me at this point changing the tubes is not about changing the signature, but upgrading the sound allround. You know, I just want more of everything 
   
  Changing the preamp tubes must be my next upgrade. Thanks for recommandations. Keep them comming  Especially if there is a tube, that increases gain.


----------



## ardilla

Can you name some good *UN-bright *tubes you have tried?
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> for me the drive tubes affect the brightness more than anything else.
> 
> but it could just be the tubes i have tried


----------



## hodgjy

At least in my WA3, the Sylvania 6DJ8 is very smooth with a pleasant, but not too overbearing, highs roll off.
  
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Can you name some good *UN-bright *tubes you have tried?


----------



## Rawrbington

ive only tried the Amprex 6DJ8 bugle boy and Phillips ECC88 and the amprex seems a little smoother in the S's and T's and cymbals


----------



## ardilla

Any recommendations for tubes using the WA2 with LCD-2 and HE-500 ?
   
  I read that the  5998 tubes give more output power?


----------



## Skylab

I liked the 5998 output tubes with Mullard CV 2492 driver tubes.


----------



## hodgjy

The Russian 6N13C (sometimes called 6H13C due to translation issues) has high gain.  It's not a bad sounding tube, either.  It's not the best tube in my collection, but it's not the worst.
  
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Any recommendations for tubes using the WA2 with LCD-2 and HE-500 ?
> 
> I read that the  5998 tubes give more output power?


----------



## librarian

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I liked the 5998 output tubes with Mullard CV 2492 driver tubes.


 


  Thanks! I just ordered a matched pair, hope I like them Too


----------



## librarian

The Mullard CV 2492's arrived. I'm not sure, but at a brief listening session, I thought the sound of my WA2 was a little bit darker/warmer... But it was good, I think I liked it.
   
  BUT there was some noise. I didn't hear it while music was on, but there was a crackling sound. First I thought it was my pickup or riaa (just got T1 and they are more revealing than my other cans), but it was also there when switching to another input.
   
  I bought these tubes as a matched pair, used. They have some burn marks on top, but seller said they meassured fine anyways. Are these tubes supposed to be noisy, no?


----------



## owidjaja

Changed my driver tube from the stock tube to E188CC siemens. The sound stage improve quite a lot and super low noise.


----------



## librarian

Sadly I had to return the Mullard 2492 driver tubes, and now I think I miss them. Hard to define what it was, but they opened up the sound a bit more compared to the stock jan 6922 tubes. Now I'm going tube rolling!
   
  I guess this is just another path in head-fi where you won't look back.


----------



## librarian

BTW: the Company I bought the Mullards from said, they have experienced problems with the Mullards in newer tube designs lately.
   
  [size=medium]"Noise could also be due to poor power supply design (a common problem with mid priced modern tube gear) which may be shown more by sensitive tubes like Mullards. In such cases, Russian tubes tend to work better."[/size]
   
   
  [size=medium]"We have sold Mullards by the hundreds otherwise and it is a benchmark tube for the E88CC type. ECC88/E88CC are frame grid designs and these can be very sensitive to line noise/vibrations from power supply. Sensitivity also varies a lot between manufacturers. For example, Russian E88CC are very crudely built but quite rugged and would work well in such situations. National (Matsu****a), NOS Tesla, Tungsram is also less sensitive to this issue etc etc."[/size]


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Question for you rollers.
   
  Where is the love for 6AS7 and family? Seemingly no modern reproductions or boutique makes. Even 6SN7 seems to get some boutique love (good value or not. Another matter).
  I can find modern reproductions of 6922 / 6DJ8 and EZ80/81 but there is **** all on the 6AS7 / 6080 (seemingly, some svetlana production as of 2003 http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/164/6/6AS7.pdf)
   
  Is the 6AS7 family so boring that it survives only on NOS of varying degrees? Many of the tubes on the compatible power tubes on the official list for WA2 appear either be near non-existant or hunted to extinction (some types don't turn up much in google at all). I'm inclined to make a start with some of the stuff that Woo is selling (having a hard time finding 7236s pretty much anywhere else.)


----------



## hodgjy

The reason you don't see any new production/boutique 6AS7 tubes is because mountains and mountains of NOS ones exist.  There are literally mountains of RCA 6AS7G and GE 6AS7GA tubes out there, and they run between $8-10.  If those disappeared, there are even more than a bazillion Russian 6N13 tubes out there.  Heck, you can even buy a pallet of 100 of those on eBay right now. 
   
  There's just no market for new ones because the RCA and GEs sound pretty darn good.  And, they're not power tubes found in guitar amps.  Usually, new production tubes are made for the guitar market.
  
  Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> Question for you rollers.
> 
> Where is the love for 6AS7 and family? Seemingly no modern reproductions or boutique makes. Even 6SN7 seems to get some boutique love (good value or not. Another matter).
> I can find modern reproductions of 6922 / 6DJ8 and EZ80/81 but there is **** all on the 6AS7 / 6080 (seemingly, some svetlana production as of 2003 http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/164/6/6AS7.pdf)
> ...


----------



## Szadzik

Subscribed


----------



## Szadzik

Hi All,
   
  So I recently purchased a pair of 70Ohm SA-5000s. I will be listening to them in 10 days and in the meantime, I was wondering if you have any insight on what tubes would be good for these. 
   
  Since they are lower impedance than T1s, I would understand they would require more current from WA2. I currently have all stock tubes on my WA2 and am a totoal noob in tube rolling.
   
  What tubes would you recommend? Or should I buy a 100 Ohm adaptor for the Sonys and make it easier for WA2? Will 170Ohm be much easier on current than 70Ohm?


----------



## essencez

Just recently replaced the stock RCA driver tubes with Tung-Sol 7236s. Very happy with results so far, the sound seems much more engaging and intricate details in various songs are heightened.
   
  Extremely happy with this current set and the only possible upgrade I'd consider now would be a quality set of matched GE 421As, which are nearly impossible to find at a reasonable price.


----------



## hodgjy

If you meant WE 421, instead of GE 421, I can tell you to save your money.  They are just rebadged Tung-sol 5998s.  This has been disputed several times, and some people will fight to the death over the claimed superiority of the WE vs. Tung-sol, but it's non-existent.  They are the same tube.
  
  Quote: 





essencez said:


> Just recently replaced the stock RCA driver tubes with Tung-Sol 7236s. Very happy with results so far, the sound seems much more engaging and intricate details in various songs are heightened.
> 
> Extremely happy with this current set and the only possible upgrade I'd consider now would be a quality set of *matched GE 421As*, which are nearly impossible to find at a reasonable price.


----------



## Rawrbington

i've been told that the 421 isn't exactly the same.  he was a tube vendor.  but his words were something like "almost exactly the same".  he made it sound like the numbers or values were slightly different.   he basically said there isn't any noticable difference in the performance.  
  i don't know for sure, and i don't know if he did either lol.
  i love the 5998.  they make the biggest difference in sound from the tubes i've put in.


----------



## essencez

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> If you meant WE 421, instead of GE 421, I can tell you to save your money.  They are just rebadged Tung-sol 5998s.  This has been disputed several times, and some people will fight to the death over the claimed superiority of the WE vs. Tung-sol, but it's non-existent.  They are the same tube.


 

  
  Ahh I indeed meant the WE 421s. If they both are identical then thats good as the Tung-sol 5998s can be aquired at more realistic prices. I might try them one day...


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Hi, I'm still waiting for mine. Tube noob. I bought some tubes already (when I thought it would all arrive at about the same time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) Yesterday I started putting them away and noticed that the pair of power tubes (6AS7 "Winged C") are actually physically different. OK, so the Tube Store doesn't do matching (by measurement) but it would have been nice to at least visually check to put in 2 similar ones...
   
  They are both 54 OTK 75, one is a flat top 6H13C 84 12, the other is a round top 6H13C 0181. My question is whether they will sound slightly differently?
   
  And related, while I know that numbers are available for all tubes, but in practical terms, will it just change the sound signature of the WA2 or does it actually increase the output power over the stock tubes?
   
  And last, both had a dab of hard-to-remove magenta paint on top, is that factory or maybe somebody marking them afterwards for testing or similar?


----------



## rrahman

subscribed


----------



## 1audioz

Finally received all my upgrades for my WA2. Input tubes and power tubes upgraded. Using stock Tesla EZ80.
   
  To me, the Phillips JAN 6922 gave music much more punch and 'presence' than standard Counterpoint ECC88.
  Burning in NOS Svetlana 6N13S\6H13C tubes just received from Ukraine now. 
   
  Nothing geekier than taking a picture of a tube amp using a DSLR while wearing T1.


----------



## nieveulv

just ordered a wa2 to pair with my t1  Time to purchase some tubes (note: im a 100% tube newbie with 0 experience)
 I wanted to maximise the wa2 with my t1 and ive read almost a thousand page of all t1/wa2 tube rolling thread lol.
  
 Since im buying the tubes from beloved EBAY, heres my choices based on the reviews.
  
 Am i doing it right? 
  
 power: tungsol 7236/5998...is this a 5998 or 7236, im not sure...
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-7236-5998-Tube-1960-Very-Strong-and-Perfectly-Balanced-/170894546501?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27ca1bd645
  
 driver: siemens e88cc......ive only heard this because macedonianhero mention this will be better than the mullard...again not too sure
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/WORLDS-BEST-NOS-SIEMENS-E88CC-6922-PLATINUM-MATCHED-PAIR-for-Audible-Illusions-/230833368060?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35bebdabfc
  
 rectifier : stock for now.
  
 Please need some advice.....its hard to purchase tubes from here..


----------



## kingcow

How are these tubes?
   
   
   
  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/miniwatt-dario-e188cc-7308/
  
   
  Thanks,


----------



## Greed

Hey all,

I new to the head-fi community, I recently purchased a WA2 to pair with my T1s. My question is what is the best rectifier tubes for that setup? I mostly listen to rock, synthpop, indiepop, electronica and trance. Is it even worth getting new rectifiers? Or are the stock tubes good enough? Thanks for all the replies in advance.

Greed


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





greed said:


> Hey all,
> I new to the head-fi community, I recently purchased a WA2 to pair with my T1s. My question is what is the best rectifier tubes for that setup? I mostly listen to rock, synthpop, indiepop, electronica and trance. Is it even worth getting new rectifiers? Or are the stock tubes good enough? Thanks for all the replies in advance.
> Greed


 
   
  Here are my favourites (in order):
   
  5U4G EML Mesh Plate
  274B Princess Mesh Plate
  5AR4 Mullard
  5U4G Sylvania


----------



## ardilla

@ *MacedonianHero *Sure you're not thinking about rectifying the WA22, not the WA2?
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Here are my favourites (in order):
> 
> 5U4G EML Mesh Plate
> 274B Princess Mesh Plate
> ...


 
   



greed said:


> Hey all,
> I new to the head-fi community, I recently purchased a WA2 to pair with my T1s. My question is what is the best rectifier tubes for that setup? I mostly listen to rock, synthpop, indiepop, electronica and trance. Is it even worth getting new rectifiers? Or are the stock tubes good enough? Thanks for all the replies in advance.
> Greed


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> @ *MacedonianHero *Sure you're not thinking about rectifying the WA22, not the WA2?


 
  Oops...sorry. Seeing things in my old age.
   
  In that case, EZ80 Telefunken or Mullard are the best way to go.


----------



## the search never ends

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Oops...sorry. Seeing things in my old age.
> 
> In that case, EZ80 Telefunken or Mullard are the best way to go.


 
  As much enthusiasm as you have for gear, you're not old, just year challenged


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





the search never ends said:


> As much enthusiasm as you have for gear, you're not old, just year challenged


 
  Sure....just wait until you turn 40.


----------



## the search never ends

Lmao.........that's been some time ago buddy, I'm passed the 50 mark


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





the search never ends said:


> Lmao.........that's been some time ago buddy, I'm passed the 50 mark


 
  We're still young....its a state of mind.


----------



## the search never ends

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> We're still young....its a state of mind.


 
  Absolutely, we're kids at heart, or we'd be smart enough to be happy with what gear we have instead of keeping up with the new goodies!
   
  Ok, so maybe I wouldn't be smart


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





the search never ends said:


> Absolutely, we're kids at heart, or we'd be smart enough to be happy with what gear we have instead of keeping up with the new goodies!
> 
> Ok, so maybe I wouldn't be smart


 
  Life's short. So, the one vice I have is audio.


----------



## Rawrbington

holy crap its RUSH
  for years now(it seems) i keep thinking i know what that Owl is from in your avvy.
  Its a Rush album isn't it?
   
  it seriously just came to me
   
   
  sorry to interrupt the convo.
  it just struck me and was like that thing where you have to forget what your trying to think of so you can think of it!
   
  such a weight off my head-fi browsing shoulders


----------



## the search never ends

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Life's short. So, the one vice I have is audio.


 
  I hear you, I'm pretty cheap with everything else other than music and associated gear.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> holy crap its RUSH
> for years now(it seems) i keep thinking i know what that Owl is from in your avvy.
> Its a Rush album isn't it?
> 
> it seriously just came to me


 
  Fly by Night! 
   
  They're the local home town band and growing up in Toronto in the '70s and 80s, its hard not to be a huge Rush fan!


----------



## the search never ends

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> holy crap its RUSH
> for years now(it seems) i keep thinking i know what that Owl is from in your avvy.
> Its a Rush album isn't it?
> 
> ...


 
  Bro, mentioning Rush is never an interruption


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





the search never ends said:


> Bro, mentioning Rush is never an interruption


----------



## Rawrbington

i've kinda started thinking the same way.   you only live once, and if what i want is lots of cool, sweet sounding audio, well by golly thats what im gonna have.  although being a public school teacher was the wrong profession for this hobby.  but im not gonna let something like being broke deter me from awesome audio


----------



## eleathar

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i've kinda started thinking the same way.   you only live once, and if what i want is lots of cool, sweet sounding audio, well by golly thats what im gonna have.  although being a public school teacher was the wrong profession for this hobby.  but im not gonna let something like being broke deter me from awesome audio


 
  Kinda expensive hobby, but so rewarding! What I like of it is that makes me appreciate details and how they contribute to the beauty of the whole song (or to its ugliness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) . 
  I don't have a tube amp yet: I'm leaning toward a Wa2, but not so fast, because my wallet is crying atm. Nevertheless I like the idea of tube rolling, the practice of switching tubes to gain that perfect sound you are looking for, like a treasure hunt that never ends.


----------



## Houbi

so i placed some orders today. i hope i have chosen well...?


Tung Sol 5998, USA 1960. Military Stock, matched pair




Siemens E88CC, matched pair. Original German tubes from the 1960s. Made by Siemens in West Germany. BOTH tubes with silver shields, A4-codes on a small metal plate inside the tube, o-getter and gold pins. 




1965 TELEFUNKEN EZ80 Military Stock, matched pair.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





houbi said:


> so i placed some orders today. i hope i have chosen well...?
> Tung Sol 5998, USA 1960. Military Stock, matched pair
> 
> Siemens E88CC, matched pair. Original German tubes from the 1960s. Made by Siemens in West Germany. BOTH tubes with silver shields, A4-codes on a small metal plate inside the tube, o-getter and gold pins.
> ...


 
  Magnificent! The best tubes for the WA2 IMHO!!!


----------



## Houbi

What do you think is a good price for all six tubes?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I prefer normal 6A7G over the 5998 in the WA2, it needs the warmth. The rest I have as well


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I prefer normal 6A7G over the 5998 in the WA2, it needs the warmth. The rest I have as well


 
  I find the WA2 plenty warm as is....it needs the 5998s to help tighten things up IMO.
   
  TS5998s...pricing is usually $150-200 pair
  Siemens E88CC: $250 per pair
  Telefunken EZ80: about $80 per pair.


----------



## the search never ends

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Magnificent! The best tubes for the WA2 IMHO!!!


 
  Well, maybe not so humble, but what the heck  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







  Engineers and humility often don't mix  IMHO


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I find the WA2 plenty warm as is....it needs the 5998s to help tighten things up IMO.
> 
> TS5998s...pricing is usually $150-200 pair
> Siemens E88CC: $250 per pair
> Telefunken EZ80: about $80 per pair.


 
   
  Personal preference, right? 
   
  Siemens E88CC: I paid $120 for a nos matched pair
  TFK EZ80, $40
  2399/5998: $160


----------



## Houbi

so then i'm somewhere in the middle Price-wise. i paid about 450$ for alle six tubes inlcludins shipping from 3 different sellers.
   
  well, let's see how they perform when they arrived and settled in


----------



## stocklaz

Hello~ I am also in the process to start my roll for my standard WA2.
   
  As now those recommended tubes in this post become rare tubes (TS5998)  I need a better (more affordable and higher availability) recommendation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Also I read some articles but still not clear out my mind, should we really need a matched pair of tubes for WA2?  Some people suggest only an extreme unmatch (different) tubes may come with problem.  As many old tubes become rare that will be even more difficult to find some NOS in perfect match.


----------



## SMBuscemi

I have the WA2, and before it was even delivered I got the Tung-Sol 5998s. Love them paired with my Grado PS500s.
   
  You have to burn them in. If you're having a hard time finding these tubes, I bought mine from www.VacuumTubes.com and my hard to find Thomson 6111 I got from www.tubezone.net (for my Contintental V2...)
   
  Then I got Woo's DAC a month later and talk about a day and night difference! Two songs I know well I streamed on Spotify Hi Res (Van Halen; "_Take Your Whiskey Home" and "Could This Be Magic") _made the music jump like David Lee Roth was singing right next to me with Eddie playing the acroustic guitar at my office. Jaw dropping. Money well spent.
   
  I'm still burning in the Woo Audio WDS-1 but out of the box with cheap Monster cables I borrowed just to hear it, it sounded incredible. (Note: I recently updated to Cardas Clear USB and that was another meaningful incremental improvement.
   
   
  For what it matters, i met Jack Woo at T.H.E. Show in Vegas (CES 2013) and he's such a nice, humble guy. So polite. So nice I almost bought the WA7 for "home" use as that sounded really incredible with his test pair of HD-800s (which are notoriously piggy on power). We'll see...
   
  At first i was really confused with the WA2. Out of the box, I was sort of dissapointed. I didn't use a DAC. I wanted more. But then I learned that I wasn't using my correct headphones. My HiFiMan HE-500s weren't a good pairing per Jack.
   
  Being a newbie, I didn't know this, and make no mistake, I am very happy with my Desktop Setup.


----------



## CaffeinatedX42

I'm moving this entirely from another thread where it was less appropriate (and nobody was replying).
   
   



caffeinatedx42 said:


> I had a question to pose to the collective mind about a problem I'm having with my WA2, or really with some tubes on it.  I'm totally new to tube amps.
> 
> I purchased a set of Tung Sol 7236 NOS power tubes and while they have definitely improved the sound in many ways that I enjoy I'm have two issues.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm realizing now I should have posted this in the WA2 tube rolling thread, oh well.
  
 UPDATE:  The vendor has gotten back to me now and says:
 "[size=14.399999618530273px]The 7236 is a high gain tube. The noise is much easier to pick up. Compared to the 6080/6AS7, the 7236 noise floor is expected to be higher. The static noise should not occur after some breaking-in."[/size]
  
 [size=14.399999618530273px]That makes sense to me, except the hum I hear (which I'm guessing is the noise floor he references) is only audible in one of the two tubes.  If it was both that would seem a more valid explanation.[/size]
  
 [size=14.399999618530273px]Any advice?  Is this just the way tubes are, often with one being nice and quiet while the other makes noise, even in a "Hand-pick matched pair"?  As I mentioned above, I'm totally new to this.[/size]
  
 [size=14.399999618530273px]UPDATE:[/size]
  
 [size=14.399999618530273px]I've switched the sides of the power drivers and the hum came back but stayed on the same side of the headphone (the right side); very strange.[/size]
  
 [size=14.399999618530273px]I'm also confused as the volume turned all the way down does not impact the hum; it stays the same at any volume.  Yet as mentioned above when I switch out the 7236 power driver with the stock tube it goes away entirely.  Bizarre.[/size]
  
 [size=14.399999618530273px]I'm going to do some more experimentation by systematically switching the sides of the other tubes too.  [/size]
  
 [size=14.399999618530273px]In the meantime does anyone have any advice?  I really really like the way the 7236 sounds other than this strange single sided hum.[/size]


----------



## HeatFan12

Well Caffeinated, in switching the power tubes for the stock ones and the noise goes away, it is definitely a prob with the 7236 power tubes.  This- "[size=small]7236 noise floor is expected to be higher"[/size].  That might be the case but they should not experience static and your other noise issues.
   
  I would ask about your source, but since the stock tubes are quiet, it's not a source issue.  Some tube amps respond differently to usb input and have a hum sometimes but that is not a tube amp problem and I remedied that issue with a couple of my amps with a usb to spdif converter.
   
  I would say run them for a good while non-stop in eight hour intervals and see if the noise diminishes.  Also, if you have it, try and clean the pins with deoxit and pipe cleaners or a firm brush.
   
   
   
  Cheers!


----------



## CaffeinatedX42

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Well Caffeinated, in switching the power tubes for the stock ones and the noise goes away, it is definitely a prob with the 7236 power tubes.  This- "[size=small]7236 noise floor is expected to be higher"[/size].  That might be the case but they should not experience static and your other noise issues.
> 
> I would ask about your source, but since the stock tubes are quiet, it's not a source issue.  Some tube amps respond differently to usb input and have a hum sometimes but that is not a tube amp problem and I remedied that issue with a couple of my amps with a usb to spdif converter.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Thanks for the informative response HeatFan12!  It seems the issue has now been solved!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I did the following:

 Cleaned the 7236 tubes pins really good with rubbing alcohol (I don't have deoxit handy and Woo Audio's site recommends alcohol so I figured that was an OK alternative).  The pins already looked very clean but I did get a slight big of stuff off one of the tubes (which has a big of discoloring on the base too though NOS.
 Kept the 7236 tubes "reversed" from the original configuration.
 Reversed the driver tubes; which are jj e8cc's (the stock ones).
   
The result was that the right channel hum & the static completely disappeared!  My suspicion is that it was reversing the drivers fixed it since the hum was previously consistently in the right ear even after reversing the 7236's.  Perhaps when reversing it I also scraped off some corrosion or something.  Bizarre though as replacing the power drivers with the stock ones also resolved the issue previously; maybe something about the 7236 and driver tube interaction was causing it;  I have no idea, quite the mystery.
   
I've ran them now for about 15 hours (eight hours yesterday after your e-mail, six hours last night, one hour as of right now today) and the whole time have had no problems.  Very exciting! 
   
Separately, though unrelated, my setup is a Sony cdp-m555es 400 disc CD-changer I've had forever, a Schiit Gungir (connected with optical), and of course the WA2.


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## HeatFan12

Glad it worked out Caffeinated and kickass setup you have....Enjoy!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!


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## Senn-Fi

Anyone else think the 5998 tubes are too powerful?  I can only get to 4-5 clicks on the volume control of my WA-22 until it gets too loud for my HD-800.  I actually am using the Western Electric 421A's because I found them for $200 for a matched pair of NOS tubes which was cheaper than any of the 5998's I could find. 
   
  Any recommendations for a lower power tube that will sound just as good that is easy to find?


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## Dubstep Girl

wow thats a great price for them!
   
  umm the tung sol 5998 sounds better than the other tubes ive tried 
   
  you could look for a GEC 6AS7, though they're really expensive. also the sylvania 7236 should have a bit less gain than 5998, though its almost as powerful as tung sol. i don't know if theres any other tubes that'll sound as good as 5998. you could check out Tung Sol/Chatham 6AS7G though


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## okw3188

Been using Siemens E88CC for a long time and just last week thought of trying PCC88 on my WA2. The result is awesome, the soundstage seems to be slightly wider and much stable than E88CC. The only trade-off is that the filament voltage runs on a 7V, instead of a 6.3V.
   
  For those who have this tube, give it a try and share your impressions. My output tube is Tung-Sol 5998.


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## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> Been using Siemens E88CC for a long time and just last week thought of trying PCC88 on my WA2. The result is awesome, the soundstage seems to be slightly wider and much stable than E88CC. The only trade-off is that the filament voltage runs on a 7V, instead of a 6.3V.
> 
> For those who have this tube, give it a try and share your impressions. My output tube is Tung-Sol 5998.


 
   
   
  been curious in trying out siemens tubes. i have amperex bugle boys and A frames atm, really good with T1/WA2.


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## helljudgement

I've own the wa2 for nearly 2 months I must say I'm very impressed with what I've heard. Initially with stock tubes the wa2 sounded very good especially coming from my hd600 at that time. Its very smooth and quite laid back sounding. But having upgraded to the 800s a month back I must say the wa2 does seem a bit dull. I've heard the 800 on a burson conductor prior purchasing and I was mighty impressed with its detail retrieval and dynamics. It sounded very good and in fact at that time I was actually hoping that my wa2 could perform just as well albeit a bit smoother on the edge and slightly lusher vocals. But in actual fact the hd800 sounded a bit dull and bland a bit too laid back for my liking which is quite disappointing considering the wa2/hd800 combo is one of the more recommended combo. It lacks that bit of air and the tactile feel that make the 800 sound that much more enjoyable on the burson.
   
  I then stumbled upon this thread and many others regarding the wa2 tubes. It seems that there's a general consensus that the wa2 is a capable amp made average by its stock tubes. I could easily find post which states the stock tubes are dull the most recent of which being found on the taboo mkiii thread where mwindham08 compared various driver tubes and stated his wa2 stock tubes were garbage and had to be replaced for it to reveal its full potential. With that I've decided to play around the tubes a little before deciding whether to change my source(which I eventually will) or change the amp.
   
  I've ordered a pair of Sylvania 7236 based as it is easier to find than the much coveted TS 5998 and GEC 6as7g. When I roll in the tubes and warm it up for the first time I was very excited as to what differences I'm going to hear. Almost immediately I've noticed that the clarity has increase and there's a bit more air between the instruments. Switching back and forth over the next few hours between the tubes, I realised the 7236 is by no means a huge improvements over the stock 6080 in terms of technicality but the effect the improvements have on the music makes them that much more enjoyable. I was impressed by the change to say the least and I was more than happy to live with this combination at least until I found a pair of reasonably priced driver tubes.
   
  While browsing through my local forum a the other day I saw a pair of Siemens e88cc NIB being sold for 158 USD. Now that's something I can't ignore so I contacted the person and the tubes arrived yesterday. The Siemens give the hd800 body and texture that wasn't there before and it improves upon the imaging. I could literally feel the strings being plucked and drums being struck its just so involving not to mention smooth. Can't do any direct comparison between this and the burson I've heard months before but I could safely say this is here to stay for a very long time. And now there's just the rectifier left to settle.
   
  With regards to the rectifier tubes I do have one question for experienced wa2 tube rollers though. Will it make much of a difference for this amp? I have read that the rectifier is the least important tube to roll for the wa2 as it does not affect the sound much. Is that true?


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## Dubstep Girl

yes they make a bit of a difference. try mullard EZ80 or RFT EZ 80, the RFT are pretty cheap and easy to find a new pair on ebay. it improves transparency and overall smoothness. the stock can be grainy or dull


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## mwindham08

Just to be clear I wasn't trashing the WA2 on my review. The WA2 just requires less readily available and/or more expensive tubes to sound it's beat imo

In comparison the decware taboo does not improve as much as the WA2 with tube rolling. They only have the 6DJ8 tubes in common though so maybe that is why.

I'm sure if woo audio could cheaply include tungsol 5998s with every amp they would do so


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## helljudgement

Yes it was stated that your views were directed at the stock tubes and not the amp itself. One of the joys of owning the wa2 is figuring which tubes works best for you. Not cheap but very intriguing to hear the way the sound change. 

@dubstep girl thanks for your input I see if I could find some cheap nos rectfier and report back my findings when I received them.


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## Nic Rhodes

do people prefer 80 or 81?


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## Dubstep Girl

in general? or the RFT? 
   
  i know someone here like RFT EZ81, i've only heard the EZ80.
   
  as far as ez80 vs ez81 in general. i think most people prefer EZ80 saying its smoother


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## Nic Rhodes

In general really, it is the one tube I haven't really rolled yet in the WA2. I have have Mullard 81 atm becuase they were handy. I have Mullards 80s out to try also and had some RTF 81s dug out to try. I was curious what others use, will start rolling some next weekend.Choice is quite limited here for me to try on this one.


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## Arcamera

Subscribing. I've happily had the WA3 for a while now, but will be upgrading to the WA2 probably in a couple of months. Just trying the figure out the smoothest tube combo that is also still available/readily purchasable...


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## Arcamera

I recently picked up from Jack a Thomson 6AS7 for my WA3. It's replacing the stock RCA 6080 (which I still like). The Thomson in contrast seems faster, more detailed, but also a bit dry/analytic. Not quite what I was expecting, but still overall a positive change. The only thing I might be missing is a little more lushness/bass richness. Anyone else have experience with the Thomson tube? I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to use (that I can get a hold of at a reasonable price) for the WA2...


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## eleathar

Hey guys, I rolled 2 sylvania 7236 on my WA2 and, while I really appreciate the increased dynamic response and the tighter bass, I miss some smoothness from the stock power tubes (Jan 6080wc), especially on the upper mid frequencies (I feel slightly too much emphasis on t and s)
Currently I have EH 6dj8 as driver and EH 6ca4 as rectifier tubes: can you suggest me any combination with 7236 that could give back that smoothness without loosing the faster sound?


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## Dubstep Girl

eleathar said:


> Hey guys, I rolled 2 sylvania 7236 on my WA2 and, while I really appreciate the increased dynamic response and the tighter bass, I miss some smoothness from the stock power tubes (Jan 6080wc), especially on the upper mid frequencies (I feel slightly too much emphasis on t and s)
> Currently I have EH 6dj8 as driver and EH 6ca4 as rectifier tubes: can you suggest me any combination with 7236 that could give back that smoothness without loosing the faster sound?




Replace eh6dj8 with amperex 6dj8 bugle boy and 6ca4 with any ez80, they are smoother.


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## eleathar

dubstep girl said:


> Replace eh6dj8 with amperex 6dj8 bugle boy and 6ca4 with any ez80, they are smoother.




Ty DG. 
Which tube should I take first? Which one has more impact on smoothness?


----------



## Arcamera

eleathar said:


> can you suggest me any combination with 7236 that could give back that smoothness without loosing the faster sound?


 
  
 I feel the same way about the Sylvania 7236. It has some excellent virtues, but it can be a bit aggressive or edgy on top. You might actually consider the French-made Thomson 6AS7. After a few hours it seems to smooth out on top-- a little softer than the 7236--yet pretty close in retaining the speed and detail of the Sylvania. It is in fact what Jack recommended to me as an alternative after I was saying the 7236 was a bit too aggressive, especially with the Senn HD800. So far at least, the Thomson/Senn combination is just getting better to my ears.
  
 Some priorities for me though: not too expensive, and readily available. The Thomson fit the bill.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

eleathar said:


> Ty DG.
> Which tube should I take first? Which one has more impact on smoothness?


 
 both, though the amperex are smoother, but i'm not sure how the EH would sound, i know the amperex are smooth and grain free. the EH could either be grainy and harsh, or muddy and not as refined. 
  
 6CA4/EZ81  generally don't sound as good as EZ80. they are faster and more SS like, the EZ80 are more lush. the mullards and  brimars in particular. the RFT EZ80 which is my favorite is warm but neutral and balanced, a good combination. its the most balanced rectifier i've heard in WA2, transparent and smooth but not really colored and not really getting in the way of the music, or anything. grain free too. has more treble extension than the more lush sounding EZ80s, but its not bright. its just well balanced. the mullard EZ80s and some of the others tend to be tubier sounding and more laid back


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## Dubstep Girl

arcamera said:


> I feel the same way about the Sylvania 7236. It has some excellent virtues, but it can be a bit aggressive or edgy on top. You might actually consider the French-made Thomson 6AS7. After a few hours it seems to smooth out on top-- a little softer than the 7236--yet pretty close in retaining the speed and detail of the Sylvania. It is in fact what Jack recommended to me as an alternative after I was saying the 7236 was a bit too aggressive, especially with the Senn HD800. So far at least, the Thomson/Senn combination is just getting better to my ears.
> 
> Some priorities for me though: not too expensive, and readily available. The Thomson fit the bill.


 
 i did not like sylvania 7236 with hd 800. lacked some resolution and was a little too forward.
  
 the tung sol 7236 is much warmer and smoother than sylvania 7236, in fact, i don't like it cause its too lush for me. seemed to add too much color, though good if you want a more forgiving presentation from 7236. better overall than sylvania 7236,but may or may not be worth the extra cost.
  
 the tung sol 5998 is nicer i think.


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## Arcamera

Thanks DG.
  
 Could you recommend a good purchasing source for these tubes? Thanks.


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## Dubstep Girl

arcamera said:


> Thanks DG.
> 
> Could you recommend a good purchasing source for these tubes? Thanks.


 
  
 mr woo is the best source for 7236. for 5998, vacuumtubesinc.com was selling them as well as vacuumtubes.net, some reputable ebay sellers too.


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## FYL941

I just ordered a pair of the tung sol 5998 and I can't wait to try them out. I've been alternating from 6as7 and 7236 and I want to see what the 5998 brings to the table!


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## Dubstep Girl

the tung sol 5998 is my reference tube for the WA2! my favorite with beyerdynamik t1.


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## ardilla

TS 5998 is a great tube. Just got 6 more...


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## Dubstep Girl

5 pairs here, and a pair of we421a


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## Arcamera

How do you all think the TS5998 is different from the TS7236? Thanks for your thoughts.


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## Chesterfield

FYI, Jack said he's switching stock tubes on the WA2 from Electo-Harmonix 6922s to Sylvania 6D8Js. Honestly, though, as little as I knew about tube rolling when I bought my WA2 (and I still know next to nothing), I'm not sure I would've kept my WA2 if it had shipped with the Sylvania 6D8Js--to my ear, they just sound painfully bright with HD-800s, and I would've mistaken that brightness for the amp's sound. So, I'm glad I bought the WA2 when EH6922s were stock (whatever their faults, EH6922s have a lovely, warm midrange). Apparently, the failure rate on the EH6922 was high enough that Jack felt like he had to switch.


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## Chesterfield

I'd recommend trying the Amperex 7308s instead of the 6D8Js. They're really nice in the 7-10 kilohertz region, which seems to be where you're encountering problems. Upscale Audio sells them for $50 each (driver grade--which is all you need for this application)--a third of the price Jack is asking for them.


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## Dubstep Girl

just get amperex bugle boys (HD 800) or orange globes (T1) and be done. cheaper than 7308 from jack (they only cost like 60-80 a pair tops), more transparent and focused than the american 6922s, and far more rugged than the EH6922 (which i can see why jack would stop using, people probably complained of them dying in a month or 2).


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## Frank I

chesterfield said:


> FYI, Jack said he's switching stock tubes on the WA2 from Electo-Harmonix 6922s to Sylvania 6D8Js. Honestly, though, as little as I knew about tube rolling when I bought my WA2 (and I still know next to nothing), I'm not sure I would've kept my WA2 if it had shipped with the Sylvania 6D8Js--to my ear, they just sound painfully bright with HD-800s, and I would've mistaken that brightness for the amp's sound. So, I'm glad I bought the WA2 when EH6922s were stock (whatever their faults, EH6922s have a lovely, warm midrange). Apparently, the failure rate on the EH6922 was high enough that Jack felt like he had to switch.


 
 We have done that. The Sylvania 6DJ8 are much quieter. Electro Harmonix were too noisy so we upgraded the tubes to the mor equieter and musical Sylvania 6Dj8 and were able to keep the price the same even thoguh ti costing us much more to source the Sylvania tubes.


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## Nic Rhodes

my EH6922 were a disaster when they arrived with my 2, it took me several days to work out more than one was faulty. A move to the Sylvania would have been welcomed here. Took me ages to move locations, swap tubes, lift earths etc. I just binned them in the end.


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## Chesterfield

EH6922s were a disaster in my WA2. It took me over a week and about $250 to figure out the hum was coming from them (thought it might be a ground hum, so I bought an isolation transformer, among other things). It was a real pain and horribly aggravating, but I still prefer them--sans noise--to the Sylvania 6DJ8s. The Sylvania 6DJ8s may be quieter and a bit more expensive than the EH 6922s (I mean, both tubes are relatively inexpensive), but more musical? I'm not so sure about that.


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## Nic Rhodes

neither of the tubes is a long term stayer, the 2 desrves far better quality than either of these but as a starter tube supplied with the 2 they should at least work!


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## Chesterfield

Agreed. The single most important qualities to the stock tubes is that they work and aren't noisy. I still feel annoyed by how much time and money I lost diagnosing that problem.


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## Nic Rhodes

chesterfield said:


> Agreed. The single most important qualities to the stock tubes is that they work and aren't noisy. I still feel annoyed by how much time and money I lost diagnosing that problem.


 

 Yes agreed,  I didn't waste any money but time is more important to me and it took me a while to work out and I build valve amps for a hobby!


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## Frank I

Sorry for your issues in the past with noisy tubes etc. We will be answering all emails from here quickly. There is also a Woo phone number going on the new website and may be also put up on the current website this week. I will be taking most of the calls..   We hope to make Woo the ultimate audio company this year.


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## Dubstep Girl

nic rhodes said:


> neither of the tubes is a long term stayer, the 2 desrves far better quality than either of these but as a starter tube supplied with the 2 they should at least work!


 
  
 +1


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## Frank I

Wall Street Journal listed the WA7 as one of the years best listening devices


​ The best gear for listening to hi-res audio
online.wsj.com
The equipment for playing master-quality recordings is more compact—and affordable—than ever.


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## Frank I

http://on.wsj.com/1e0taUT
  
 Check it out


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## Chesterfield

frank i said:


> http://on.wsj.com/1e0taUT
> 
> Check it out




Congratulations. Yes, the WA7 Fireflies has been getting really good reviews. Had it been available when I was initially shopping for DACs and a better amp, I might've gone that route.


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## Chesterfield

Would anyone here be willing to share their impressions on the WA2 with Telefunken 6922s?


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## senson

dubstep girl said:


> just get amperex bugle boys (HD 800) or orange globes (T1) and be done. cheaper than 7308 from jack (they only cost like 60-80 a pair tops), more transparent and focused than the american 6922s, and far more rugged than the EH6922 (which i can see why jack would stop using, people probably complained of them dying in a month or 2).


 
 it might be newb question, did Amperex made orange globe in Hollands? all I can find PQ oranges are made in USA;; also DG please pm me your secret tube source I can't find them in 60-80 range
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 oh wait you might hide some nice 6922s in your closet for another WA2 in that case.... let me know


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## Dubstep Girl

I got rid of all my 6922 as well as my ez80s

PQs cost more and there are some USA made and I know some where made in Holland. Orange globes are different and should be Holland like the Bugle boys but there is also some USA made ones as well.


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## Dubstep Girl

No source just go ebay and search amperex 6922 orange globe. A frame or regular version, little different sounding both are good. Make sure they say made in holland

Heres a frame. Pair
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-1969-Holland-Amperex-Orange-Globe-6DJ8-ECC88-tubes-Tested-83-70-83-71-/181294326920?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a35fbe488


Also
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-ORANGE-GLOBE-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-SMOOTH-TONE-011-/221319947454?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3387b264be

Regular holland o globe
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-64-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-SMOOTH-TONE-043-/221341776943?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3388ff7c2f



Prices vary dont overpay. Some cost more than others depending on condition and if they have a box or not. Also depending on sellers reputation


Btw those are just examples so u see picture and how prices vary. Not recommending any buyer specifically


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## Dubstep Girl

If i was getting more expensive white labels, those are the PQ and cost more and are harder to find good ones


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## robbbby

I've been enjoying my WA2 and T1 combo for a few days now and figured I should read this thread to see how much more I can get out of this amp.  After reading this i'm more confused then ever, all i've learned is that the good tubes this amp needs are rare and cost a hell of a lot.


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## Chesterfield

I'm in love: Amperax 7308s + Tung Sol 7236s + Philips Miniwatt EZ81s. I used to be a professional classical musician and I can honestly say I never knew music could sound this good. Total cost of the tube upgrades was $360 ($100 each pair for drivers and rectifiers, $160 for power tubes). Considering the amp itself costs $1200, $360 for tubes doesn't seem too unreasonable to me, especially for such bliss. The WA2 with stock tubes is really very pleasant. But with good tubes, the WA2 is just plain magical.


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## Dubstep Girl

Now just wait till you try the GEC 6AS7G


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## robbbby

Is the combo Chesterfield mentioned a good place to start?
  
 "Amperax 7308s + Tung Sol 7236s + Philips Miniwatt EZ81"
  
 I'd like to try my hand at tube rolling but don't want to break the bank on rare/expensive tubes just yet.
  
 Chesterfield, do you mind sharing where you purchased your tubes from?


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## Chesterfield

No problem, robbbby. I got the 7236s from Woo Audio (listed on the WA2 page). For power tubes, a lot of people prefer, and swear by, Tung-Sol 5998s. 5998s are available from vacuumtubes.net for $85 each. The other tubes I got from Upscale Audio. When ordering driver tubes from Upscale Audio, make sure to ask that they be matched (which they'll do for no additional cost) and order driver grade, which will save you some money. They don't match rectifiers. 

Dubstep Girl, as for GEC 6AS7G--I wish.


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## Chesterfield

Forgot to mention, robbbby---other than the Philips Miniwatt EZ81s, you'll see the tubes I recommended are the ones recommended by Woo Audio. In place of the Miniwatts, Woo Audio recommends Westinghouse EZ80s, but I don't think they have them anymore, since there's no paypal button there. I haven't been able to find the Westinghouse EZ80s anywhere. A lot of people like the Mullard EZ80s (The Miniwatt ez81s were built in the mullard factory and they're a little more laid back than the EZ80s).


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## robbbby

Thanks a lot Chesterfield, I appreciate the advice and links.


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## Dubstep Girl

I used RFT EZ80 and they are very nice, they are quite cheap too.


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## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> I used RFT EZ80 and they are very nice, they are quite cheap too.


 
 +1


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## senson

dubstep girl said:


> I used RFT EZ80 and they are very nice, they are quite cheap too.


 
 +2 Thanks DG


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## okw3188

dubstep girl said:


> I used RFT EZ80 and they are very nice, they are quite cheap too.


 
 +3


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## Chesterfield

RFT EZ-80s in original boxes are currently $10 each from The Tube Store: http://tubes-store.com/shopping_cart.php. Hard to go wrong at that price.


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## Dubstep Girl

wow good price!


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## Chesterfield

FYI, RFT EZ80s are now sold out at The Tube Store.


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## Chesterfield

My RFT EZ80s finally arrived from Russia. They're a bit darker, which I enjoy quite a lot, than what I've been using (I actually prefer the HD 650s sound signature to the HD 800s, but chose the latter over the former because of its imaging). The RFTs have a silky treble and a deep, rich, full bass. Their only shortcoming that I could detect, which may be addressed a bit by burn in, was soundstaging: compared to every other rectifier I own, the RFT EZ80 soundstage seemed understated, almost to the point of non-existence. In any case, many thanks for the recommendation.


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## hodgjy

It must all be how the circuit is designed.  In my Trafomatic, the RFT EZ80 is extremely linear with an extended upper end.  I certainly wouldn't call it dark.  I do call it extremely detailed, with a wide soundstage, while remaining very musical.


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## Dubstep Girl

hodgjy said:


> It must all be how the circuit is designed.  In my Trafomatic, the RFT EZ80 is extremely linear with an extended upper end.  I certainly wouldn't call it dark.  I do call it extremely detailed, with a wide soundstage, while remaining very musical.


 
  
 +1
  
 the soundstage isn't huge but its definitely not small.
  
 extended and linear is the best way to describe them for sure!


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## Chesterfield

Curious. Hodgjy's description is, basically to a word, how I'd describe my Phillips Miniwatt ez81s. The soundstage on the RFT EZ80s expands slightly at higher volumes, but it's still only about a third the size of the miniwatt's soundstage, which is both vast and magical. And I'd definitely characterize the top end on my RFTs as rolled off, starting at about 8 kHz, and dramatically by 10 kHz--which no doubt affects the imaging. Cymbals and high hats are very shy, and have zero decay. The tubes should be about half way burned in by now, and I haven't detected any real change in sound signature or imaging. Very curious. Sounds like I might've gotten a dud or two.


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## hodgjy

I may roll in some other EZ80s I have laying around (I have a bunch) and see what I kind.  But, a lot of the tube sound is all about synergy and circuit design, so direct comparisons aren't always possible.


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## hodgjy

I rolled in my Ei EZ80 this weekend into my Trafomatic.  Granted, it's a completely different design than the WA2.  Compared to the RFT EZ80, it's warmer and more bottom heavy.  The high end is rolled off in comparison.  So, it's not as linear as the RFT.  The soundstage is a just a touch wider.  Nothing to stop the presses, though.
  
 The Ei is a nice tube.  But, the RFT is nicer.  The RFT's only weakness is a slightly smaller soundstage, but it's only the smallest touch smaller.


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## jasonleehl

By any chance, do you all know of any place where the RFT EZ80 is in stock? I'm thinking of testing it out with the current EZ80 tubes I have.
  
 I went through like a couple of websites, and it seem to be selling really fast. There was one seller which I delayed purchase confirmation for 2 days and it went out of stock!


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## hodgjy

Tubemonger.com has RFT EZ81 in stock.  Other than that, I think you'll have to take your chances on eBay.  That's what I did.


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## Dubstep Girl

yeah ebay is easiest source for RFT EZ80. i guess most of the tube stores will eventually run out and that will be the only place to get.


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## hodgjy

After giving me Ei EZ80 a workout this weekend, I put the RFT back in.  Wow, the RFT is so much more transparent and linear.  It's also much less congested.  Overall, it's the superior tube.


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## jasonleehl

Haha hodgjy, you're just trying to tease me by saying ^.
  
 I have the Tungsram EZ80 which sounds pretty decent - but it's the 'what I am missing' feeling that impulses me to try the RFT out. 
  
 Hopefully I can get a decently priced one out of ebay. Thanks for the help everyone.


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## hodgjy

jasonleehl said:


> Haha hodgjy, you're just trying to tease me by saying ^.
> 
> I have the Tungsram EZ80 which sounds pretty decent - but it's the 'what I am missing' feeling that impulses me to try the RFT out.
> 
> Hopefully I can get a decently priced one out of ebay. Thanks for the help everyone.


 
 You should definitely roll in some different rectifiers to find your tastes.  The Tungsram is considered by many to be a fairly lifeless tube.


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## Dubstep Girl

hodgjy said:


> You should definitely roll in some different rectifiers to find your tastes.  The Tungsram is considered by many to be a fairly lifeless tube.


 
  
 ive heard the same as well.
  
 +1


----------



## ru4music

hodgjy said:


> You should definitely roll in some different rectifiers to find your tastes.  The Tungsram is considered by many to be a fairly lifeless tube.


 

 I would recommend something along the lines of the Brimar (England) manufacture:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NIB-GE-6V4-EZ80-Tubes-UK-Brimar-d-getter-/141181664297?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20df153c29
  
 I have three to four sets of NIB Brimar EZ 80's tubes.  It's currently the only rectifier tube I'll run in my WA-2.
  
 I don't know the seller on ebay but at $40 it's a good deal IMHO.


----------



## hodgjy

ru4music said:


> I would recommend something along the lines of the Brimar (England) manufacture:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NIB-GE-6V4-EZ80-Tubes-UK-Brimar-d-getter-/141181664297?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20df153c29
> 
> ...


 
 That is indeed a very nice tube.  I find it very liquid.  It sounds nice.


----------



## StanT

I've had good luck with Billington Export and Mullards. I have several pairs of RFTs and Mullards, both are very nice in the WA2.
  
 Billington Export is also a good source for GEC 6as7g . They don't always have them in stock; but they will email you when they come in.


----------



## jasonleehl

Thanks guys - that was helpful!


----------



## MoatsArt

Has anyone experienced both WA2 & Bottlehead Mainline? 
  
 Comparions would be appreciated, particularly from those who have experienced them with T1s,
  
 Cheers


----------



## AlphaChicken

I am thinking about getting a WA2 to go with my PS Audio PWD mkII, LCD-2's, and future HD800s that I plan to get. Does anyone have experience with HD800 and this amp? I was gonna get WA22 but it is so expensive...to save or not. 
  
 I already have a pair of tele E88CCs that I bought for my Lyr. Will those work well in the WA2? What sort of tubes do you guys recommend? I like soundstage, air, and detail but I also do not like the sound being TOO analytic and cold.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

alphachicken said:


> I am thinking about getting a WA2 to go with my PS Audio PWD mkII, LCD-2's, and future HD800s that I plan to get. Does anyone have experience with HD800 and this amp? I was gonna get WA22 but it is so expensive...to save or not.
> 
> I already have a pair of tele E88CCs that I bought for my Lyr. Will those work well in the WA2? What sort of tubes do you guys recommend? I like soundstage, air, and detail but I also do not like the sound being TOO analytic and cold.


 
  
 with the proper tubes, i personally liked the WA2 more with HD 800. the LCD-2 did not work for me with the WA2 though.
  
 Teles are nice tubes. also look into amperex  tubes, they are all pretty good.


----------



## AlphaChicken

So then should I save for the WA22? Because I would really prefer something that can cater to all my cans.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

alphachicken said:


> So then should I save for the WA22? Because I would really prefer something that can cater to all my cans.


 
  
 if you want woo, yeah. you can also try out the WA6-SE but might not be to your tastes with HD 800. WA7 is also an option but seeing how you have a PWD, i would go for the WA22 or even the WA5LE


----------



## jasonleehl

I've been sourcing for a backup 5998 for my WA2 now because after rolling various tubes, it seems to be what I like. 
  
 I got an offer for 5998 and 5998 CTL but the CTL costs more. Besides that, I assumed CTL is an earlier batch in production.
  
 Is there any difference in sound?
  
 Maybe hodgjy / dub step girl, you could help me out!
  
 Thanks!


----------



## aive

dubstep girl said:


> I used RFT EZ80 and they are very nice, they are quite cheap too.


 
  
 Just placed an order for a matched pair of these from eBay - relatively low cost upgrade for WA2. Only driver tubes remain stock now but they are more expensive to replace. Thanks for all the tube recommendations  
  
  
 Edit: Ended up getting a pair of Amperex Bugleboys too! Dammit DSG! 
  
 Hmm the RFT EZ80 listing I bought from says RFT in the item description and photo but the summary says the brand is Tunsgram.... hopefully just a typo


----------



## hodgjy

I listened to different 5998, JAN 5998, CTL 5998, and the controversial 2399.  I've not heard much difference between any of them.  I say as long as they're matched pairs, you should be good to go.
  
  
 Quote:


jasonleehl said:


> I've been sourcing for a backup 5998 for my WA2 now because after rolling various tubes, it seems to be what I like.
> 
> I got an offer for 5998 and 5998 CTL but the CTL costs more. Besides that, I assumed CTL is an earlier batch in production.
> 
> ...


----------



## jasonleehl

I suspect this is the case but just wanted to be sure. Thanks!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I have owned all and they all sound the same

I have a pair of 421A western electric and they sound almost the same too. Price is more though cause they cooler looking and slghtly more extended


----------



## Dubstep Girl

aive said:


> Just placed an order for a matched pair of these from eBay - relatively low cost upgrade for WA2. Only driver tubes remain stock now but they are more expensive to replace. Thanks for all the tube recommendations
> 
> 
> Edit: Ended up getting a pair of Amperex Bugleboys too! Dammit DSG!
> ...


----------



## VladBath

Hello, I have a question for the people who use WA2 with all those great upgraded tubes mentioned in this thread - anyone uses WA2 as a preamp?
How well does it perform as a preamp with UPGRADED tubes? I have HD600 cans but rarely use them, now looking for a powerful preamp with great dynamics to use with my Berning ZH-270. As I have a matched pair of Mullard 6060 at hand, I thought of getting WA2 as a preamp and occasionally using it as a headphone amp (the idea in question is using power tubes in a preamp for greater headroom/dynamics). Any info will be much appreciated. 
P.S. I hope my question isn't considered offtopic as it concerns WA2 with tubes upgrades.


----------



## magiccabbage

vladbath said:


> Hello, I have a question for the people who use WA2 with all those great upgraded tubes mentioned in this thread - anyone uses WA2 as a preamp?
> How well does it perform as a preamp with UPGRADED tubes? I have HD600 cans but rarely use them, now looking for a powerful preamp with great dynamics to use with my Berning ZH-270. As I have a matched pair of Mullard 6060 at hand, I thought of getting WA2 as a preamp and occasionally using it as a headphone amp (the idea in question is using power tubes in a preamp for greater headroom/dynamics). Any info will be much appreciated.
> P.S. I hope my question isn't considered offtopic as it concerns WA2 with tubes upgrades.


 
 I used my WA2 with Keff R500 and a rotel integrated amp. I cant remember the name of the Rotel but i could find out. Anyway i wasn't that impressed with the sound. I don't know if it needed to a be a power amp or if the Rotel was up to the task or not, but i remember how excited i was to try it and then i also remember being very underwhelmed. 
  
 It probably depends a lot on the rest of the rig. I wouldn't advise buying it without hearing it though.


----------



## Rizlaw

vladbath said:


> Hello, I have a question for the people who use WA2 with all those great upgraded tubes mentioned in this thread - anyone uses WA2 as a preamp?
> How well does it perform as a preamp with UPGRADED tubes? I have HD600 cans but rarely use them, now looking for a powerful preamp with great dynamics to use with my Berning ZH-270. As I have a matched pair of Mullard 6060 at hand, I thought of getting WA2 as a preamp and occasionally using it as a headphone amp (the idea in question is using power tubes in a preamp for greater headroom/dynamics). Any info will be much appreciated.
> P.S. I hope my question isn't considered offtopic as it concerns WA2 with tubes upgrades.


 
 I own the WA2  and a Decware CSP3. I have used the WA2 as a preamp (good but not great results) and currently use it as a headphone amp. Your post states that you are looking for a preamp, that is "powerful . . . with great dynamics", therefore, I suggest you look at the Decware CSP3. http://www.decware.com/newsite/CSP3.html  IMO,it has what you're looking for and much more. Steve Deckert also provides a 30 day trial and lifetime guarantee.


----------



## VladBath

Thanks a lot, guys! I see that using a headphone amp (and particularly WA2) as a preamp may not be as good an idea as it seemed. At leat WA2 is not likely to be much better than modded VTL TL2.2 pre which I have now. Thanks for your suggestion, I shall certainly look into the Decware unit (if I get it I will rebuild it into a normal chassis though, and add a remote volume). I was also thinking of the Bottlehead Bee Pre (an inexpensive DIY 300B preamp). But I guess this is for a different thread.


----------



## StanT

vladbath said:


> Hello, I have a question for the people who use WA2 with all those great upgraded tubes mentioned in this thread - anyone uses WA2 as a preamp?
> How well does it perform as a preamp with UPGRADED tubes? I have HD600 cans but rarely use them, now looking for a powerful preamp with great dynamics to use with my Berning ZH-270. As I have a matched pair of Mullard 6060 at hand, I thought of getting WA2 as a preamp and occasionally using it as a headphone amp (the idea in question is using power tubes in a preamp for greater headroom/dynamics). Any info will be much appreciated.
> P.S. I hope my question isn't considered offtopic as it concerns WA2 with tubes upgrades.


 
 I guess that I'll disagree with the others. I use an upgraded WA2 as a preamp, probably 50% of my listening is through speakers. My WA2 has Blackgates and I'm using GEC 6AS7G, Mullard EZ80, and Phillips E88CC SQ. I use an Emotiva UPA-2 for power and play through PSB Imagine Bs. 
  
 I'm very happy with the performance of the WA2 as a preamp. In my system, all of the characteristics that I love about the WA2 and T1s carry over to my speakers. I'm not really good with audio adjectives; but even through speakers, it sounds like a WA2.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

stant said:


> I guess that I'll disagree with the others. I use an upgraded WA2 as a preamp, probably 50% of my listening is through speakers. My WA2 has Blackgates and I'm using GEC 6AS7G, Mullard EZ80, and Phillips E88CC SQ. I use an Emotiva UPA-2 for power and play through PSB Imagine Bs.
> 
> I'm very happy with the performance of the WA2 as a preamp. In my system, all of the characteristics that I love about the WA2 and T1s carry over to my speakers. I'm not really good with audio adjectives; but even through speakers, it sounds like a WA2.


 
  
 also note that you are using fairly decent tubes and the best power tubes for the WA2 (im talking about the mullards and GEC here).
  
 from what ive noticed, everyone who has enjoyed the wa2 as a preamp has also used upgraded tubes. its a pretty big difference in transparency and just overall refinement vs stock wa2 which i don't really like as much.


----------



## kazsud

Awesome. I knew different tubes would render better results.
I'll be running airmotiv 6 active monitors on mine 

dac-100> Wa2> emotiva airmotiv 6s


----------



## StanT

dubstep girl said:


> also note that you are using fairly decent tubes and the best power tubes for the WA2 (im talking about the mullards and GEC here).
> 
> from what ive noticed, everyone who has enjoyed the wa2 as a preamp has also used upgraded tubes. its a pretty big difference in transparency and just overall refinement vs stock wa2 which i don't really like as much.


 

 For sure and to be fair, I've never even plugged in the stock tubes. I moved from a WA3 to the WA2 with very strong opinions on power and preamp tubes. I got lucky with rectifiers.


----------



## VladBath

stant said:


> I guess that I'll disagree with the others. I use an upgraded WA2 as a preamp, probably 50% of my listening is through speakers. My WA2 has Blackgates and I'm using GEC 6AS7G, Mullard EZ80, and Phillips E88CC SQ. I use an Emotiva UPA-2 for power and play through PSB Imagine Bs.
> 
> I'm very happy with the performance of the WA2 as a preamp. In my system, all of the characteristics that I love about the WA2 and T1s carry over to my speakers. I'm not really good with audio adjectives; but even through speakers, it sounds like a WA2.



 


Very interesting! That's why I was highlighting with caps the part about upgraded tubes in my enquiry. I already have a pair of Mullard 6080 and a pair of Mullard ECC88, and sourcing a pair of GEC EZ80/81 to boot isn't going to be too hard. For upgrades I also have spare caps like PIO K40Y-9, teflon FT and K72 for line circuit and 100uf oils for power supply, and Audioquest top silver wire for hookup. The question is whether the result can be comparable to (or better than) good used preamps that show up for $2-3k like Cary SLP98, Shindo Auriges, Jadis JPL, Valvet Soulshine8, EAR 868, BAT VK5 etc. May be I am asking too much of WA2? But I know that the best tubes often completely transform the sound of humble electronic components. And part of the appeal is that to my eye silver WA2 looks much sexier than all preamps I've mentioned above))) I wish I could compare them side by side. I am looking for improved dynamics, more saturated tonal colours, and a heavy dose of magic / musicality. Call it a coloration, but I want it to do tricks like garbage in > good music out (I heard Shindo gear do that to bad recordings of good music). That's why I wonder about using power triodes (including 300B) in a line preamp. 
The preamp is going to be in good company: MacMini (Amarra), NAD M51, Berning ZH-270, Gallo Reference Strada II, B&W PV1, Kimber KCAG and 4AG.


----------



## aive

dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> the soundstage isn't huge but its definitely not small.
> 
> extended and linear is the best way to describe them for sure!




My RFTs just arrived and in my WA2 I agree with the assessment above - it is a very noticeable improvement over the stock tubes. In terms of soundstage it's a definite improvement over the stock rectifiers, so if there is more to have I guess the journey continues!


----------



## Kimakaze

I have had my WA2 for about a month now.  I have been rolling in various tubes such as the Tung Sol 7238, Chatham 2399, RFT EZ80 and recently Amperex orange PQ 6922.
  
 I do prefer the Chatham 2399 over the Tung Sol 7236.  The RFT EZ80 was also a nice upgrade.
  
 Well.  I was testing out a used pair of Amperex PQ 6922 I got from Ebay.  When I went to pull one of them out, the glass broke in almost a perfect line just above the bottom where I grasped them.
  
 Does anyone use a tube puller/removal?  Is there a proper way of removing the tubes?  Is this just bad luck with a used tube?
  
 I my WA6 and WA6-SE, I always pulled straight up on the tube due to the recessed sockets.  Those WA2 sockets sure are tight when new.
  
 Thanks for the any comments/advice.


----------



## billerb1

I got my WA2 today.  Oh my God.  Guess I'm playin' with the big boys now...
  
 Running Tung Sol 5998's, RTF EZ80's and Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's.
 Have quite a few other combinations to run but if it gets much better than this
 I might just fall over and die.


----------



## ngxbao

I just started rolling serious tubes. Learn much from the board and am now see if I can contribute.
  
 Regarding using W2 as preamp, make sure that your amp out is analog if not most amp will redigitalize the signal which sort of making the warmth of tube analog signal invalid. I'm using the HK990 Harman *Kardon*. Sweet.


----------



## billerb1

Just got my WA2 less than a week ago and am loving it with my Beyerdynamic T1's.  Am running Tung Sol 5998's, Philips Sittard EZ80's and have tried a series of very nice 6922 variants.  My  favorite has been Philips Miniwatt E188CC's.  I've tried Siemens Cca A-Frames from the 70's and a pair of 60's S&H E88CC Gray Shields.  Both Siemens pairs seem a little recessed in the mids and just a touch edgier in the treble region than I'd like.  The Miniwatt E188CC's are beautiful across the spectrum.  Wondered if anyone with T1's has a suggestion for a warmer or 'tubier' sounding 6922 for variety.  Maybe some Mullard pair or other possibilities.  I'd welcome any recommendations. 
 Thanks and it's great to be on board with you Woo fans.


----------



## magiccabbage

billerb1 said:


> Just got my WA2 less than a week ago and am loving it with my Beyerdynamic T1's.  Am running Tung Sol 5998's, Philips Sittard EZ80's and have tried a series of very nice 6922 variants.  My  favorite has been Philips Miniwatt E188CC's.  I've tried Siemens Cca A-Frames from the 70's and a pair of 60's S&H E88CC Gray Shields.  Both Siemens pairs seem a little recessed in the mids and just a touch edgier in the treble region than I'd like.  The Miniwatt E188CC's are beautiful across the spectrum.  Wondered if anyone with T1's has a suggestion for a warmer or 'tubier' sounding 6922 for variety.  Maybe some Mullard pair or other possibilities.  I'd welcome any recommendations.
> Thanks and it's great to be on board with you Woo fans.


----------



## billerb1

Thanks, Cabbage.  Was thinking about the Orange Globes.  More suggestions please !


----------



## billerb1

Would like people's thoughts on comparing
 the Western Electric 421A vs the GEC 6AS7G...especially as it relates
 to the T1's on the WA2.  I'm currently running Tung Sol 5998's.
 Thanks.


----------



## GrindingThud

To me, 421A sounds near identical to the 5998. They bias the same in my amp and swing about the same voltage. Nice quiet tube. The GEC is a 6AS7 and sounds similar to most 6AS7. They are each best in breed for their respective types and tend to be quieter, better balanced, and have better soundstage because of it. 



billerb1 said:


> Would like people's thoughts on comparing
> the Western Electric 421A vs the GEC 6AS7G...especially as it relates
> to the T1's on the WA2.  I'm currently running Tung Sol 5998's.
> Thanks.


----------



## MIKELAP

Also join the Woo club yesterday the WA2 shure is a looker i love it . But one thing i found out fast enough is that it doesnt like 25 ohms Denons music was distorted but with Senns hd800 sounds good. Did not read the thread yet so tube wise will see whats decent and affordable with amp tubes i have that came with amp are                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Power tubes = Chatham 2399 and Sylvania 6AS7GA , Svetlana 6H13C  on the way                                                                                                        
 Drivers = Electro Harmonix 6922 ,Siemens E88CC, amperex orange globes 6DJ8, bugle boys6DJ8.Westinghouse 6BQ7A,RCA, 6BQ7A and Russian  6N23P.   already using these tubes with Littledot mk3 amp  with an adapter                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Rectifier = Electro Harmonix 6CA4, Telefunken EZ80,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        So would they be other nice sounding tubes i could try  just started sampling the ones mentionned above .Thanks


----------



## JohnBal

Just a word to the wise. the Siemens E88CC are not rectifiers. Do not use them in the rectifier slot. Big problems will ensue. Enjoy your new Woo!


----------



## MIKELAP

johnbal said:


> Just a word to the wise. the Siemens E88CC are not rectifiers. Do not use them in the rectifier slot. Big problems will ensue. Enjoy your new Woo!


 
 Oups wrong columm


----------



## guildenstern

Just got a WA2, used in great shape. Came with stock Westinghouse 6080 tubes, which seller said were unused as he had replaced them with NOS. Both of the Westinghouse 6080s are completely microphonic and very noisy. I tried a pair of RCA 6AS7G tubes -- again, completely microphonic and one has low-level buzzing. I've checked the driver and rectifier tubes in the amp, and they're fine. So, can anyone recommend a quiet, *non-microphonic* 6080 (or equivalent)? I'd like to hear what this Woo can do! Thanks.


----------



## AnakBaru

Hi all,
 Just got a used Wa2, anyone willing/thinking to sell their spare Tung Sol 5998 please pm me will you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Thanks


----------



## Jobbing

anakbaru said:


> Hi all,
> Just got a used Wa2, anyone willing/thinking to sell their spare Tung Sol 5998 please pm me will you
> Thanks




Congrats!

Last January I was thinking of buying a WA2, but eventually I didn't. However, in anticipation I bought these
http://www.head-fi.org/t/685870/sylvania-7236-nos-tubes-sold
but never used them. If you're interested, just send me a pm.

Cheers


----------



## AnakBaru

jobbing said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Last January I was thinking of buying a WA2, but eventually I didn't. However, in anticipation I bought these
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/685870/sylvania-7236-nos-tubes-sold
> ...


 
 Ouch...if only you offered it a bit sooner I will jump to it, its just I already ordered one pair from Woo directly.
 Thanks for the offer anyway.
  
 I'm now in the market for a pair of 7308 at the moment


----------



## Jobbing

anakbaru said:


> Ouch...if only you offered it a bit sooner........


 
  
 Yep, that crystal ball is on my wish list too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Good luck finding a nice pair of 7308s


----------



## AnakBaru

Hi guys...
 Anyone ever tried/used WA2 as pre amps before ?
 I have Alo PanAm, will the pair work ?
 Don't want to experiment it just in case someone had tried it before and destroy them.
  
 Really appreciate the input.


----------



## StanT

I use a WA2 as a pre amp to an Emotiva UPA-2. Sounds just like a WA2.


----------



## guildenstern

anakbaru said:


> Hi guys...
> Anyone ever tried/used WA2 as pre amps before ?
> I have Alo PanAm, will the pair work ?
> Don't want to experiment it just in case someone had tried it before and destroy them.
> ...


 

 For me, the WA2 is a superb headphone amp, and an OK-but-nothing-more preamp. As a headphone amp, it drives my T1s beautifully. As a preamp, it creates a rather diffuse soundstage, and is a bit too loose in lower frequencies, and a bit noisy. Maybe this is due to the particular tubes, maybe to the interaction between the Woo and my amp -- in other words, for other users driving other amps, the WA2 might perform very well as a preamp. I'm content to appreciate it as an exceptionally fine headphone amp.


----------



## guildenstern

Replying to my own post -- on recommendation from Brent Jesse (audiotubes.com), bought a pair of NOS Raytheon 6080, with the nickel base and the white “ceramic” (Bakelite) bottom. Very pleased with them -- electronically and mechanically quiet, and oh, yeah, musically very satisfying as well.


----------



## billerb1

guildenstern said:


> Replying to my own post -- on recommendation from Brent Jesse (audiotubes.com), bought a pair of NOS Raytheon 6080, with the nickel base and the white “ceramic” (Bakelite) bottom. Very pleased with them -- electronically and mechanically quiet, and oh, yeah, musically very satisfying as well.


 

 Congrats on your Raytheon find.  If you get a chance (and can find them) give the Tung Sol 5998's a try.  To me a whole different amp with the 5998's.  More powerful, more defined, more layered soundstage...still smooth as silk.  But you know how it goes, that's just me.  Your results may vary.


----------



## guildenstern

billerb1 said:


> Congrats on your Raytheon find.  If you get a chance (and can find them) give the Tung Sol 5998's a try.  To me a whole different amp with the 5998's.  More powerful, more defined, more layered soundstage...still smooth as silk.  But you know how it goes, that's just me.  Your results may vary.


 
 Thanks for the recommendation -- "and can find them" -- ah, there's the rub -- those TS 5998s are elusive. I'll keep an eye peeled, but for now, happy with the Raytheons.


----------



## HeatFan12

guildenstern said:


> Replying to my own post -- on recommendation from Brent Jesse (audiotubes.com), bought a pair of NOS Raytheon 6080, with the nickel base and the white “ceramic” (Bakelite) bottom. Very pleased with them -- electronically and mechanically quiet, and oh, yeah, musically very satisfying as well.


 
  
  
 Those Raytheons are very nice tubes.
  

  
  
 Have spoken to Brent Jesse various times through the years as well as purchasing my tube tester from him years ago.  Great interactions and great service!
  
  
  
 If you like the 6080:
  
  
 Tung Sol 6080WB
  

  
  
 Bendix 6080WB
  

  
  
  
 Cheers!


----------



## AnakBaru

guildenstern said:


> For me, the WA2 is a superb headphone amp, and an OK-but-nothing-more preamp. As a headphone amp, it drives my T1s beautifully. As a preamp, it creates a rather diffuse soundstage, and is a bit too loose in lower frequencies, and a bit noisy. Maybe this is due to the particular tubes, maybe to the interaction between the Woo and my amp -- in other words, for other users driving other amps, the WA2 might perform very well as a preamp. I'm content to appreciate it as an exceptionally fine headphone amp.


 
 Finally tried it and it sucks...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I think the Alo PanAm power is too low for this setup.
 The sound in the right channel in low to mid volume was non existent...only high volume it comes out and make the whole sound distorted like hell.
  
 I thought it will make Alo PanAm sound better with my LCD-2 and XC 
 Well, its worth the try.
  
 I just have to accept the facts that Wo Wa2 is really the amps for T1...both my Audeze sound inferior with it compare to T1 .


----------



## guildenstern

billerb1 said:


> Congrats on your Raytheon find.  If you get a chance (and can find them) give the Tung Sol 5998's a try.  To me a whole different amp with the 5998's.  More powerful, more defined, more layered soundstage...still smooth as silk.  But you know how it goes, that's just me.  Your results may vary.


 

 VERY hard to find Tung Sol 5998s -- so, if you had to pick a second and third choice, which tubes would you nominate? (Driving Beyerdynamic T1s.) Thanks!


----------



## StanT

$85 @ http://www.vacuumtubes.net/RES%20Audio%20pages/5998.html  , Tejas tubes is a bit higher, EBAY prices come and go.
  
 To my ear, GEC 6AS7G are the best I've heard. 5998/2399/421A would follow, with Tung-Sol 7236s after that. I'm not a fan of 6080s, though I haven't heard them all.


----------



## billerb1

Vacuumtubes.net is out of them and I spoke to one of their owners and he didn't expect any in soon. That being said I'd agree with Stan's assessment but that's just from what I've read. 
I'd just advise to be vigilant...the 5998's do show up. A Head-Fi buddy just found 3 NOS 5998's for $100 a piece but that seller is now sold out as well.


----------



## guildenstern

stant said:


> $85 @ http://www.vacuumtubes.net/RES%20Audio%20pages/5998.html  , Tejas tubes is a bit higher, EBAY prices come and go.
> 
> To my ear, GEC 6AS7G are the best I've heard. 5998/2399/421A would follow, with Tung-Sol 7236s after that. I'm not a fan of 6080s, though I haven't heard them all.


 

 I just called Dale at vacuumtubes.net and unfortunately he says he has only a couple left that were returned by a customer who found them to be very microphonic.
  
 Thanks for the other suggestions.


----------



## billerb1

I've listed 4 NOS pairs of great and very hard-to-find EZ80 and EZ81 rectifiers for the WA2 on the For Sale Forum if anyone's  looking.  All low hours and perfect working order.  They're all listed in the Philips Miniwatt Sittard post.
 (Philips Miniwatt Sittard, Brimar and Valvo)


----------



## guildenstern

Forgive my naivete, but is the Chatham *2399* identical to the Tung Sol *5998*? They are often referred to as though one and the same. Thanks to more knowledgeable head-fiers for your guidance.


----------



## HeatFan12

guildenstern said:


> Forgive my naivete, but is the Chatham *2399* identical to the Tung Sol *5998*? They are often referred to as though one and the same. Thanks to more knowledgeable head-fiers for your guidance.


 
  
 Quote from another site (not my quote):
  
  
     





> "All of the 5998s were manufactured by Tung-Sol, regardless of what name appears on the tube. I believe this is true even for versions numbered 2399 - it was just that different manufacturers rebadged the Tung-Sol tubes with different numbers.
> 
> The differences in structure/manufacturing are probably just due to the tubes being produced at different times/years, when subtle changes in structure were made by Tung-Sol over the life of the product. I would expect the sound to be identical. I have several Tung-Sol 5998s and Chatham 2399s and haven't noticed any material differences."


----------



## StanT

guildenstern said:


> Forgive my naivete, but is the Chatham *2399* identical to the Tung Sol *5998*? They are often referred to as though one and the same. Thanks to more knowledgeable head-fiers for your guidance.


 

 I have both and they sure look and sound the same to me.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

same tube as far as i know.
  
 you can even add Western Electric 421A to that list as well


----------



## billerb1

dubstep girl said:


> same tube as far as i know.
> 
> you can even add Western Electric 421A to that list as well


 

 +1


----------



## guildenstern

heatfan12 said:


> Quote from another site (not my quote):


 

 Thanks for that info, HeatFan, and I hope you're happy with the results of tonight's game!


----------



## HeatFan12

guildenstern said:


> Thanks for that info, HeatFan, and I hope you're happy with the results of tonight's game!


 
  
  
 You are very welcome!!!
  
 Indeed I am!!  Can't wait for Thur.!!!!!  Game 1!
  
 Cheers!!!!!


----------



## kazsud

I have my Wa2 in pre-amp mode to my airmotiv 6s w/ the bass set to -4db and the bass is still too over powering. 

Any recondition on tubes to level the bass?


----------



## guildenstern

kazsud said:


> I have my Wa2 in pre-amp mode to my airmotiv 6s w/ the bass set to -4db and the bass is still too over powering.
> 
> Any recondition on tubes to level the bass?


 
  
 Not meaning to state the obvious, but have you already adjusted the EQ controls on the back of your airmotiv monitors? From the owner's manual:
  
_Low-frequency Equalization_
_The Low-frequency Equalization control is intended mainly to compensate for the_
_“boundary effect” that increases bass output when a speaker is placed near one or_
_more surfaces or corners._
_On the airmotiv, this control affects mainly frequencies below 150 Hz and offers a_
_maximum reduction of -2 dB or -4 dB at 20 Hz._
_If you notice excessive or “muddy” bass, especially if your airmotiv monitors are placed_
_near large surfaces or room corners, try setting the Low-frequency Equalization to_
_-2 dB or -4 dB._


----------



## guildenstern

guildenstern said:


> Not meaning to state the obvious, but have you already adjusted the EQ controls on the back of your airmotiv monitors? From the owner's manual:
> 
> _Low-frequency Equalization_
> _The Low-frequency Equalization control is intended mainly to compensate for the_
> ...


 

 Never mind, I see you said "set to -4 dB." What tubes are now in your Woo?


----------



## kazsud

TS 5998
Siemens E88CC
Mullard EZ80


----------



## AnakBaru

Hi All,
 With Tung Sol 7236 (bought from Woo) and other tubes using stock, with AK240 as source and T1 as cans, my WA2 start giving noise/buzzing at 10 o'clock volume...anybody experience the same ?
 Is it normal ?
 Below 10 o'clock its dead quiet, fortunately I never listen at more than 9 or 9 1/2.
 Just curious.


----------



## Chesterfield

Anak,
 No, that's definitely not normal. Sounds like a tube is a likely culprit. Do you have any alternate tubes you know are quiet so you can cycle through and figure out exactly what tube (assuming it is one) is causing the problem?


----------



## AnakBaru

chesterfield said:


> Anak,
> No, that's definitely not normal. Sounds like a tube is a likely culprit. Do you have any alternate tubes you know are quiet so you can cycle through and figure out exactly what tube (assuming it is one) is causing the problem?


 
 May I know what kind of tubes you are using in your WA2?
 Currently I only got stock from Woo and the 7236, my Sylvania 7308 also just arrive and when I use it the buzz is still there.
 I have 6AS7 and 6dj8 on the way, will try them on once they arrive to see if the buzz gone.


----------



## GrindingThud

Sounds like a ground loop, does it buzz with the source disconnected?


----------



## guildenstern

kazsud said:


> TS 5998
> Siemens E88CC
> Mullard EZ80


 

 In a few recent posts in this thread (including one of mine), you'll see that for some users, while the Woo excels as a headphone amp, it doesn't always work well as a preamp. When I tried it as a preamp, I found the bass loose and wooly. I didn't do a lot of tube rolling to try to change the way the Woo sounds with speakers because it sounds so darned good with my headphones. That said, if you want to experiment, you might try a pair of RFT EZ80 in place of the Mullard rectifiers, though I'd anticipate that while this change might make a subtle difference, it won't necessarily clear up your bass problem. I haven't rolled enough 6DJ8 tubes to tell you whether there's an option that might offer lighter, tighter bass while still having all the virtues of your Siemens E88CC -- a tube I'd be reluctant to replace. And I wouldn't even think about changing out the TS 5998.
  
 Maybe instead of changing out the tubes, since you have a killer combo in the amp now, try putting the speakers on some isolation cones, or loosely stuffing the port on the back with some batting or some material like this: http://www.amazon.com/WEB-WVENT-Vent-Register-Filters/dp/B000BWKMI2
  
 Hope you can make it work!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

guildenstern said:


> In a few recent posts in this thread (including one of mine), you'll see that for some users, while the Woo excels as a headphone amp, it doesn't always work well as a preamp. When I tried it as a preamp, I found the bass loose and wooly. I didn't do a lot of tube rolling to try to change the way the Woo sounds with speakers because it sounds so darned good with my headphones. That said, if you want to experiment, you might try a pair of RFT EZ80 in place of the Mullard rectifiers, though I'd anticipate that while this change might make a subtle difference, it won't necessarily clear up your bass problem. I haven't rolled enough 6DJ8 tubes to tell you whether there's an option that might offer lighter, tighter bass while still having all the virtues of your Siemens E88CC -- a tube I'd be reluctant to replace. And I wouldn't even think about changing out the TS 5998.
> 
> Maybe instead of changing out the tubes, since you have a killer combo in the amp now, try putting the speakers on some isolation cones, or loosely stuffing the port on the back with some batting or some material like this: http://www.amazon.com/WEB-WVENT-Vent-Register-Filters/dp/B000BWKMI2
> 
> Hope you can make it work!


 
  
  
 +1


----------



## Chesterfield

I'm using Tung Sol 7236s, Amperex 7308s, and Philips Miniwatt EZ81s. It may, as GrindingThud suggests, be a ground loop problem--though in my expereince ground loop noise happens even at low volumes. If you go back a few pages in this conversation, you'll see that a number of us experienced similar problems when we first received our WA2. Woo Audio tried to address the matter by switching out stock tubes that had a high failure (I mean noise) rate, like the Electro-Harmonix 6922s. The real shame here, I think, is that Woo Audio doesn't appear to be testing their $1200 amps with the stock tubes installed before shipping the amp and tubes to customers. And when a customer then has to deal with a faulty tube problem with their new amp, spending who knows how many hours diagnosing it, not to mention having to spend still more money on tubes or isolated power supplies or whatever to diagnose and fix the problem, Woo Audio acts like it's no big deal, and just one of those things. If the WA2 weren't such a glorious amp . . .


----------



## kazsud

guildenstern said:


> In a few recent posts in this thread (including one of mine), you'll see that for some users, while the Woo excels as a headphone amp, it doesn't always work well as a preamp. When I tried it as a preamp, I found the bass loose and wooly. I didn't do a lot of tube rolling to try to change the way the Woo sounds with speakers because it sounds so darned good with my headphones. That said, if you want to experiment, you might try a pair of RFT EZ80 in place of the Mullard rectifiers, though I'd anticipate that while this change might make a subtle difference, it won't necessarily clear up your bass problem. I haven't rolled enough 6DJ8 tubes to tell you whether there's an option that might offer lighter, tighter bass while still having all the virtues of your Siemens E88CC -- a tube I'd be reluctant to replace. And I wouldn't even think about changing out the TS 5998.
> 
> Maybe instead of changing out the tubes, since you have a killer combo in the amp now, try putting the speakers on some isolation cones, or loosely stuffing the port on the back with some batting or some material like this: http://www.amazon.com/WEB-WVENT-Vent-Register-Filters/dp/B000BWKMI2
> 
> Hope you can make it work!




I'll try to get a pair of RFT EZ80. My speaker stands have spiked feet but I'll try the port thing.

Thanks for the info


----------



## guildenstern

Just received a pair of NOS Tung Sol 5998, branded Chatham 2399. One tube seems to have something loose inside it -- makes a kind of metallic jangly sound when I move the tube. I can't see any loose or broken parts inside. And as far as I can tell, the tube works OK. So, I should just stop worrying and get on with life? Or is this kind of mechanical (not audio) noise a potential portent of problems down the road, which would mean that I should try to get the tube replaced? Thanks for your guidance!


----------



## HPiper

If I am not going to be using the peamp function do I even need to worry about swapping out the preamp tubes?


----------



## AnakBaru

grindingthud said:


> Sounds like a ground loop, does it buzz with the source disconnected?


 
 @Grinding...yes it is buzzing even when the source is disconnected.
 Is that a ground loop tell tale ?


----------



## GrindingThud

No, that leans toward not a ground loop. It's most likely either a tube or power supply/ground issue... My WA-3 was very picky.
My WA3 did not like CFL lamps nearby either. You mentioned the buzz appears or is maximized at around 10oclock. Noise from the pot maximizes at center (resistance, not on the dial). The fact it's quiet with volume down means it's not likely an output tube issue.




anakbaru said:


> @Grinding...yes it is buzzing even when the source is disconnected.
> Is that a ground loop tell tale ?


----------



## AnakBaru

grindingthud said:


> No, that leans toward not a ground loop. It's most likely either a tube or power supply/ground issue... My WA-3 was very picky.
> My WA3 did not like CFL lamps nearby either. You mentioned the buzz appears or is maximized at around 10oclock. Noise from the pot maximizes at center (resistance, not on the dial). The fact it's quiet with volume down means it's not likely an output tube issue.


 
 The buzz start showing at around 10 o'clock and keep getting louder when I increase the volume...the higher the volume the louder it become.
 Perhaps I should try a power conditioner, anybody use this btw, does it helps ?
  
 My 6as7 and 6dj8 just arrived, will swap them tonight and see if the buzz goes away.
  
 Thanks Grinding.


----------



## OldSkool

Anyone have experience with a TS5998 that gives off a loud "pop" after a few mins? Is this called arcing? Any hope for this tube, or is it worthless?


----------



## OldSkool

Anyone?
  
 Fortunately, I always listen to newly purchased tubes thru an old pair of Senn HD238's for the first hour as I don't want to risk damaging my HD800 or LCD2.2.


----------



## GrindingThud

Yes, that is arcing. It's as bad for your ears as it is for headphones. A gassy tube can arc, a tube that has been sitting for years may arc, powering up the amp with hot rectifiers and cold output tubes (rolling too quickly) can do it. Let the tube cook for an hour before trying again. It may just be a one time thing. If it happens more than once at startup or if it happens to a fully warmed up amp I toss the tube. Some 5998 and 7236 have a tendency to arc in the Woo.



oldskool said:


> Anyone have experience with a TS5998 that gives off a loud "pop" after a few mins? Is this called arcing? Any hope for this tube, or is it worthless?


----------



## OldSkool

grindingthud said:


> Yes, that is arcing. It's as bad for your ears as it is for headphones. A gassy tube can arc, a tube that has been sitting for years may arc, powering up the amp with hot rectifiers and cold output tubes (rolling too quickly) can do it. Let the tube cook for an hour before trying again. It may just be a one time thing. If it happens more than once at startup or if it happens to a fully warmed up amp I toss the tube. Some 5998 and 7236 have a tendency to arc in the Woo.


 

 Will try it again. Thanks for the info.


----------



## ru4music

guildenstern said:


> Just received a pair of NOS Tung Sol 5998, branded Chatham 2399. One tube seems to have something loose inside it -- makes a kind of metallic jangly sound when I move the tube. I can't see any loose or broken parts inside. And as far as I can tell, the tube works OK. So, I should just stop worrying and get on with life? Or is this kind of mechanical (not audio) noise a potential portent of problems down the road, which would mean that I should try to get the tube replaced? Thanks for your guidance!


 

 I have a few that do the same, generally this won't cause any problems.


----------



## kazsud

ru4music said:


> I have a few that do the same, generally this won't cause any problems.




I have the same tube w/ the same problem


----------



## guildenstern

kazsud said:


> I have the same tube w/ the same problem


 

 Thanks for letting me know you've had the same experience. Since the tube sounds fine, I'll just enjoy the music and not worry about it. (Sounds like a good way to get through life...)


----------



## kazsud

Are 6080wa compatable?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

kazsud said:


> Are 6080wa compatable?


 

 yes, 6080, 6080w, 6080wa, 6080wb and 6080wc are all fine


----------



## OldSkool

grindingthud said:


> Yes, that is arcing. It's as bad for your ears as it is for headphones. A gassy tube can arc, a tube that has been sitting for years may arc, powering up the amp with hot rectifiers and cold output tubes (rolling too quickly) can do it. Let the tube cook for an hour before trying again. It may just be a one time thing. If it happens more than once at startup or if it happens to a fully warmed up amp I toss the tube. Some 5998 and 7236 have a tendency to arc in the Woo.


 

 When you mentioned rolling too quickly, I remembered that I was swapping in cold power tubes with hot rectifiers. After a proper warm-up, the tube now works fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks again for this info! Your advice kept me from throwing out a perfectly good 5998.


----------



## OldSkool

Finally found a back-up pair of 5998s, or so I thought.
  
 I spotted 5998 tubes listed on a website (of a well-known Head-Fi member, unnamed for now) for $100 each. OK, that's a fair price, so I ordered two via Paypal and received order confirmation. The following day, my money was refunded with no explanation besides..."out of stock".
  
 I immediately go back to the well-known website and see the same 5998s listed for sale...at $175 each.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Not cool. The search continues.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

pathetic for them to price them at $175 ea, thats 421A pricing and not even worth it at all.


----------



## kazsud

dubstep girl said:


> pathetic for them to price them at $175 ea, thats 421A pricing and not even worth it at all.



 


What is a good 421A to get?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

theres only one...


----------



## billerb1

Have a couple NOS rectifier pairs on the For Sale forum if anybody's looking for a steal.
 French made Valvo EZ80's and UK made Brimar EZ81's with military print.  PM me if
 you're interested.  CONUS only.


----------



## Chesterfield

I finally found--for not so much money--a perfect matched pair of Tung-Sol 5998s--originally owned by, but not purchased from, Dubstep Girl (thanks, Dubstep Girl). My educated guess from reading various forums is that 80% of WA2 owners believe Tung Sol 5998s are the best (somewhat) affordable power tubes for the amp, and 20% side with the Tung Sol 7236s. By "affordable" I mean to exclude Western Electric 421a tubes and GEC 6AS7Gs. So now, having both 5998s and 7236s, I thought I'd give my impressions--for those new to the amp or whomever else might be interested. I tested the 7236s and 5998s with a variety of well-regarded rectifiers and drivers: these impressions seem to transcend drivers and rectifiers.

TS 5998
 Bass is a bit more powerful, but less controlled
 Definitively better imaging generally, and specifically the soundstage is quite a bit wider--really expansive. There's a significant difference in imaging between these tubes. 
 Treble is ever-so-slightly harsher, particularly in the 6-8 KHz region, which is more pronounced
 Mids are less apt to emit purple smoke

TS 7236
 Controlled bass
 Silkier highs
 Soundstage is smaller, but by no means collapsed or claustrophobic, and there's less depth to the sonic image
 Mids are more polished


For all the TS 5998s technical superiority in imaging, I'd give the nod to the 7236 in one important measure: pure musicality. Whereas the 5998 dazzles, the 7236 caresses: one's a night at a magnificent royal firework display, the other's an evening spent gorging on Belgian bonbons. Both tubes are magical in the WA2. For me, one tube's not definitively better than the other--just deliciously different.


----------



## billerb1

chesterfield said:


> I finally found--for not so much money--a perfect matched pair of Tung-Sol 5998s--originally owned by, but not purchased from, Dubstep Girl (thanks, Dubstep Girl). My educated guess from reading various forums is that 80% of WA2 owners believe Tung Sol 5998s are the best (somewhat) affordable power tubes for the amp, and 20% side with the Tung Sol 7236s. By "affordable" I mean to exclude Western Electric 421a tubes and GEC 6AS7Gs. So now, having both 5998s and 7236s, I thought I'd give my impressions--for those new to the amp or whomever else might be interested. I tested the 7236s and 5998s with a variety of well-regarded rectifiers and drivers: these impressions seem to transcend drivers and rectifiers.
> 
> TS 5998
> Bass is a bit more powerful, but less controlled
> ...


 

 Really nice comparison and review, Chris.  You are always getting me to spend more money...and you KNEW you'd get me on the "musicality" reference.  And just when I was totally happy with my 5998's.  You are an evil man.


----------



## Kiats

chesterfield said:


> I finally found--for not so much money--a perfect matched pair of Tung-Sol 5998s--originally owned by, but not purchased from, Dubstep Girl (thanks, Dubstep Girl). My educated guess from reading various forums is that 80% of WA2 owners believe Tung Sol 5998s are the best (somewhat) affordable power tubes for the amp, and 20% side with the Tung Sol 7236s. By "affordable" I mean to exclude Western Electric 421a tubes and GEC 6AS7Gs. So now, having both 5998s and 7236s, I thought I'd give my impressions--for those new to the amp or whomever else might be interested. I tested the 7236s and 5998s with a variety of well-regarded rectifiers and drivers: these impressions seem to transcend drivers and rectifiers.
> 
> TS 5998
> Bass is a bit more powerful, but less controlled
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for this! I have been sidetracked since I got my hands on the WA2 and haven't had time to explore tube rolling. Will re-read this thread and get tips.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Perhaps some of you may know what these are for.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 #ExtremelyLimited


----------



## Chesterfield

billerb1 said:


> Really nice comparison and review, Chris.  You are always getting me to spend more money...and you KNEW you'd get me on the "musicality" reference.  And just when I was totally happy with my 5998's.  You are an evil man.




Thanks, Bill. It's one of my strong suits: getting friends to doubt themselves and generally undermining their happiness. Encouraging them to see the folly of their contentment is precisely what makes me such a good friend, I think. Seriously, since the 7236 would be a new flavor rather than a replacement, I think, at the least, you can wait until you find a really inexpensive pair.


----------



## ru4music

chesterfield said:


> I finally found--for not so much money--a perfect matched pair of Tung-Sol 5998s--originally owned by, but not purchased from, Dubstep Girl (thanks, Dubstep Girl). My educated guess from reading various forums is that 80% of WA2 owners believe Tung Sol 5998s are the best (somewhat) affordable power tubes for the amp, and 20% side with the Tung Sol 7236s. By "affordable" I mean to exclude Western Electric 421a tubes and GEC 6AS7Gs. So now, having both 5998s and 7236s, I thought I'd give my impressions--for those new to the amp or whomever else might be interested. I tested the 7236s and 5998s with a variety of well-regarded rectifiers and drivers: these impressions seem to transcend drivers and rectifiers.
> 
> TS 5998
> Bass is a bit more powerful, but less controlled
> ...


 

 Thanks for the review!  What HPs were you using and did they have a stock/ or upgraded cable?  BTW, I believe your review would transcend  HPs as well.


----------



## billerb1

chesterfield said:


> Thanks, Bill. It's one of my strong suits: getting friends to doubt themselves and generally undermining their happiness. Encouraging them to see the folly of their contentment is precisely what makes me such a good friend, I think. Seriously, since the 7236 would be a new flavor rather than a replacement, I think, at the least, you can wait until you find a really inexpensive pair.


 

 Quit tryin' to be nice.  I know all your tricks !!!  Seriously, Chris, I'll keep my eyes opened.  Let me know if you see any deals on the 7236's.


----------



## Chesterfield

ru4music said:


> Thanks for the review!  What HPs were you using and did they have a stock/ or upgraded cable?  BTW, I believe your review would transcend  HPs as well.




Hi, ru4music: I used HD-800s with stock cables (which are pretty good). If you click on my user name and select "profile", you'll be able to read a complete list of my equipment (though I don't list all my tubes).


----------



## kazsud

The gec 6as7g are the hardest to seat in the amp. 
Or at least mine


----------



## Dubstep Girl

kazsud said:


> The gec 6as7g are the hardest to seat in the amp.
> Or at least mine





yeah seems like straight base is easier to get in.


----------



## Chesterfield

Does anyone here have Telefunken 6922s? If so, would you mind writing a review--I mean specifically paired with the WA2? I've had my eye on these for months, but can't seem to decide: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/. I've read that they're even better than my beloved Amperex 7308s. Thanks.


----------



## Nhubley

Those Telefunken's are amazing. Expensive tho. Here is a link where you can buy them: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
  
 I just ordered some  EZ80 6V4 Valvo Hamburg West Germany, and  AMPEREX 6922 E88CC 7LG GOLD PIN NOS VINTAGE 1962 4 VALVO​. 
  


  
  
 Anyone have experience with either of those?


----------



## paladinm

Hey, guys. I'm new here. I have a question. I want to buy some tubes for me wa2 on ebay, maybe a pair of 5998 or 6AS7G. but how can I tell if they are matched? Can I test their matched status by myself? Because some sellers just say matched pair. but how can i tell if they are telling the truth?
 thanks


----------



## MIKELAP

paladinm said:


> Hey, guys. I'm new here. I have a question. I want to buy some tubes for me wa2 on ebay, maybe a pair of 5998 or 6AS7G. but how can I tell if they are matched? Can I test their matched status by myself? Because some sellers just say matched pair. but how can i tell if they are telling the truth?
> thanks


 
 Speaking for myself as long as the tubes are the same brand and look alike and test similar its good enough for me but some may see things differently


----------



## paladinm

Thank you for your reply. But about "test similar", how can I test them?


----------



## paladinm

mikelap said:


> Speaking for myself as long as the tubes are the same brand and look alike and test similar its good enough for me but some may see things differently


 
 For example, I saw a pair of tubes on ebay. The seller says
  
 Tube 1 Results
*106 ma - 16 ma
 105 ma - 16 ma*

 Tube 2 Results
*106 ma - 16 ma
 105 ma - 16 ma*
  
 Are these the results I should look at?
 If yes, what do they mean? Can I measure them by myself?
 Thanks~~~


----------



## MIKELAP

paladinm said:


> For example, I saw a pair of tubes on ebay. The seller says
> 
> Tube 1 Results
> *106 ma - 16 ma
> ...


 
 They seem to be very similar you want to see how much life is left in them ,some say this with a percentage for example  tube tesT at 90% and minimum good value would be 60% others test results are shown in microohms and they have to be tested for shorts and gas leaks also just read the add usually all the infos is there .


----------



## paladinm

mikelap said:


> They seem to be very similar you want to see how much life is left in them ,some say this with a percentage for example  tube tesT at 90% and minimum good value would be 60% others test results are shown in microohms and they have to be tested for shorts and gas leaks also just read the add usually all the infos is there .


 
 Thanks.
 Can I test them by myself? I wonder how did they get those test results? What equipment do they use?


----------



## MIKELAP

paladinm said:


> Thanks.
> Can I test them by myself? I wonder how did they get those test results? What equipment do they use?


 
 if you have a tube tester you can depending on the tubes you have theres lots of different types   this is one of them


----------



## paladinm

mikelap said:


> if you have a tube tester you can depending on the tubes you have theres lots of different types   this is one of them


 
 Sooooo, if a pair of tubes are of the same brand, look alike and in good condition, and tested as having the same/close percentages (like 90% and 90%), they will draw similar currents and be considered as a matched pair?


----------



## MIKELAP

paladinm said:


> Sooooo, if a pair of tubes are of the same brand, look alike and in good condition, and tested as having the same/close percentages (like 90% and 90%), they will draw similar currents and be considered as a matched pair?


 
 Same brand same style and also have to test the same electically in 6as7 tube theres is 2 triode section that are tested in the tube here's an example ,to be matched each section has to test within a certain percentage of each other to be called matched what that percentage is  i dont remember but i would guess would be about 5% difference  between the 2 triode   like in picture  .Hope this helped


----------



## paladinm

Woa, many thanks...really helped. I also have some other questions
 do preamp tubes and rectifier tubes need to be matched?
 what will happen if i use unmatched power tubes? will mi amp explode?


----------



## MIKELAP

paladinm said:


> Woa, many thanks...really helped. I also have some other questions
> do preamp tubes and rectifier tubes need to be matched?
> what will happen if i use unmatched power tubes? will mi amp explode?


 
 Some amp configuration i heard need tubes to be matched  but in my case i have a Littledot mk3 i dont buy matched tubes because imo its waisted money its a scam for vendors to sell there tubes more ,i also have a WooAudio 2 i dont have matched tube on that amp either and nothing exploded yet .With my Littledot at first i use to buy matched power tubes but i also use tubes that are not matched and i dont have any problems and i have had that amp for over 2 years .When i buy tubes i want same brand and same type structure and ive been happy with that and i probably  saved a ton of money by doing so.


----------



## zackzack

Is this the much revered Tung SOL 5998 power tubes that everyone says will be perfect for WA2?
  
http://tubeworldexpress.com/collections/power-tubes/products/5998-tungsol-in-stock-soon
  
 @ $175 per piece is a little steep, no?


----------



## billerb1

zackzack said:


> Is this the much revered Tung SOL 5998 power tubes that everyone says will be perfect for WA2?
> 
> http://tubeworldexpress.com/collections/power-tubes/products/5998-tungsol-in-stock-soon
> 
> @ $175 per piece is a little steep, no?


 

 I have an unused pair of NOS Tung Sol 5998's that I bought from vacuumtubes.net as backups on the For Sale Forum for $199 if anyone is interested.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/748066/tung-sol-5998-branded-chatham-2399-nos-matched-pair
  
 PM me.                                #### S O L D  ####


----------



## zackzack

Recently got myself RCA 6AS7G power tubes and Sylvania 7308 JAN NOS drivers to replace WA2 stock tubes.
 Wider & deeper soundstage, blacker background, smoother sound all around.
 And yes, the bass coming from Mega City One  (Dredd Soundtrack) used to be very good now it is awesome.
 Mass string section of classical tracks can breathe easier.
  
 Very nice upgrade but not cheap. The RCAs used to be
 much cheaper, I heard


----------



## mikoss

I will probably regret posting this (because I want them!), but here are more cheap RCA 6AS7G's, if anyone needs a pair:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Tubes-6AS7G-6AS7-RCA-Twin-Power-Triodes-LG-Test-106-104-102-102-PAIR-/351273592835?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item51c989a803


----------



## MIKELAP

mikoss said:


> I will probably regret posting this (because I want them!), but here are more cheap RCA 6AS7G's, if anyone needs a pair:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Tubes-6AS7G-6AS7-RCA-Twin-Power-Triodes-LG-Test-106-104-102-102-PAIR-/351273592835?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item51c989a803


 
 Maybe you didnt notice seller says one of them has a loose base.sorry its loose glue in the base


----------



## picklgreen

Finally bought a pair of GEC 6AS7G tubes! They are straight brown base though. Thanks to dminches.


----------



## picklgreen

skylab said:


> The WE 421a is a total waste of money - it is just a Tung Sol 5998 rebranded - nothing more. The TS 5998 on the other hand are terrific (and should be $50 each or less).


 

 This is totally wrong! Comparing the 2 tubes you can clearly see the difference. But if you actually own the 2 you can defiantly HEAR a difference! The 421A have better dynamics, more air, transparency and sound stage imaging.. Western Electric are the absoulte best of the best tubes period. And the 421A are relatively cheap tubes. Check out how much a pair of NOS western electirc 300B cost!
  
 The differences are:
  
 421A have dual bottom halos or D getter with spiral wound "pigtails" filament wiring. 5998 have STRAIGHT filament wiring. 421A has higher gain.


----------



## Behemoth27

Right now enjoying telefunken 6922 and tung sol 7236. Alough did minimal tube rolling. 

Going to look for a rectifier. Using the stock Electro harmonix still. Have a pair of Ei Ez80's on the way. 

Love this amp.


----------



## mikoss

Mm Tele's with 7236's sounds like a great match. Still hoping to find a modestly priced pair of e188cc Telefunken tubes myself... They're pretty pricey on eBay.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

picklgreen said:


> This is totally wrong! Comparing the 2 tubes you can clearly see the difference. But if you actually own the 2 you can defiantly HEAR a difference! The 421A have better dynamics, more air, transparency and sound stage imaging.. Western Electric are the absoulte best of the best tubes period. And the 421A are relatively cheap tubes. Check out how much a pair of NOS western electirc 300B cost!
> 
> The differences are:
> 
> 421A have dual bottom halos or D getter with spiral wound "pigtails" filament wiring. 5998 have STRAIGHT filament wiring. 421A has higher gain.


 
  
 i noticed no major difference between them, might have been placebo but MAYBE just MAYBE the 421A had slightly more extended highs and an airier sound, but the differences are so insignificant, i would buy the 421A just for the bragging rights and the better looking tube, but otherwise i'm convinced they're the same tubes until my ears tell me otherwise.


----------



## billerb1

I've decided to sell my last remaining pair of Tung Sol 5998's.  They were bought NOS and matched... have about 250 or so hours on them now.  No tube noise, microphonics or any BS.  Dead quiet.  $199 + $12 USPS Priority shipping.  I'll eat the Paypal fee.  Shipping to CONUS only.  PM me.


 ************************** S O L D *************************


----------



## StanT

picklgreen said:


> This is totally wrong! Comparing the 2 tubes you can clearly see the difference. But if you actually own the 2 you can defiantly HEAR a difference! The 421A have better dynamics, more air, transparency and sound stage imaging.. Western Electric are the absoulte best of the best tubes period. And the 421A are relatively cheap tubes. Check out how much a pair of NOS western electirc 300B cost!
> 
> The differences are:
> 
> 421A have dual bottom halos or D getter with spiral wound "pigtails" filament wiring. 5998 have STRAIGHT filament wiring. 421A has higher gain.


 
 I'm going to disagree. I have at least a dozen pairs of 5998 with various construction. Several of the have spiral wound pigtails, several have bottom halo getters, etc. A couple pairs do not have dimples on the plates. All of them sound the same and have similar gain. I have a single 421A that I used for comparison (in a WA3). The construction is consistent with several of my 5998, as is the sound and gain.
  
 I'l buy 421As being cherry picked and matched. I'm not buying them being a different tube.
  
 I've seen pictures of a tube labeled both 421A and 5998. That ought to end the argument; but Google isn't cooperating with popping it up.
  
  
 edited to add pics:


----------



## picklgreen

Yes the Western Electric 421A/5998 are the same tubes (they did label them 421A/5998 in the 1950's). But the Tung Sol 5998 IS NOT A WESTERN ELECTRIC 421A!!!


----------



## gintamafans

Just got my wa2~~~and researched on tube rolling, looks like first thing I should get is Tung Sol 5998?
 Can anyone tell me a good place to get them?


----------



## earthpeople

Keeping an eye out on eBay is probably the easiest way to get a pair at a decent price.


----------



## picklgreen

Oh look what the cat dragged in! What's in the box? What's in the box?!?



Western Electric 421A


----------



## mikoss

picklgreen said:


> Oh look what the cat dragged in! What's in the box? What's in the box?!?
> 
> 
> 
> Western Electric 421A



I need to get a cat just like yours...


----------



## billerb1

Am selling my GEC 6080 NOS pair...only because I just bought a pair of GEC 6AS7G's (thanks to Franatic for his help!)


Here's the link to my posting on the For Sale Forum.  They need a worthy home.  The upper mids and treble are just killer on em. 


Pure liquid goodness.


 


http://www.head-fi.org/t/767962/gec-6080-nos-perfect-pair



 *************** S O L D **************


----------



## devilboy

Finally pulled the trigger on a WA2 last night.  As I told DG, I went with stock tubes only because all the NOS tubes I'm considering are different than what Woo were offering so why pay for NOS twice?   I'm going to call Andy at Vintage Tube Services and see what he has.  Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait......
  
 Has anyone replaced the fuse in their Woo amps?  I added some boutique fuses to my loudspeaker system over the years and have seen considerable improvements.


----------



## MIKELAP

devilboy said:


> Finally pulled the trigger on a WA2 last night.  As I told DG, I went with stock tubes only because all the NOS tubes I'm considering are different than what Woo were offering so why pay for NOS twice?   I'm going to call Andy at Vintage Tube Services and see what he has.  Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait......
> 
> Has anyone replaced the fuse in their Woo amps?  I added some boutique fuses to my loudspeaker system over the years and have seen considerable improvements.


 

 i put in 25 cents fuses in my WA6, WA2 ,WA22 ,among other's just to try   ,and  there's no change i would invest where it counts (tubes) but that's me .


----------



## picklgreen

I agree, don't buy any of the NOS tubes Woo sells! They are all junk!. For the Woo WA2 there is only 1 option. Siemens CCA (or E88CC). Get the 1960's grey shield A frame. Than get either the GEC 6AS7G or Western Electric 421A. Anything else is less than the best so like you said...why buy NOS twice!?! OH and I have no idea how fat your wallet is but you could also go for some Telefunken CCA. Those are $1000 each though for new ones.


----------



## devilboy

My wallet is certainly not that fat. LOL.  I hear either the GEC 6AS7G or the Tung Sol 5998 would be great.  I was thinking either Siemens or Amperex for the drivers.


----------



## devilboy

Ok, I called my tube guy and this is what my needs and wallet settled on g or my yet-to-be-delivered WA2:

NOS 6as7g Chatham
NOS "A" frame Amperex 6dj8
NOS Mullard Ez80


----------



## devilboy

These arrived yesterday:
  
 NOS 6as7g Chatham
 NOS "A" frame Amperex 6dj8
 NOS Mullard Ez80
  
 After a lot of reading I thought these would be a good start.
  
 I'm waiting for the WA2 which should be here any day.


----------



## jsa_ind

Hi,

 I am planning to purchase the Woo WA2

 Has anybody tried the combination of Genalex U709, Western Electric 421A and POPE E88CC ,D-Getter,Pinched Waist?

 If so please let me know what your observations have been?

 Thanks,

 jsa_ind


----------



## ru4music

jsa_ind said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am planning to purchase the Woo WA2
> 
> ...


 

 No, but as a WA3 and WA2 owner for the last 12+ years I would advise (at least at first) against that esoteric tube combo (cost vs. performance).  Too expensive and results relative to a person's audio setup.  Try Brimar/ RFT rectifiers (Z80) and Amperex/ Siemens small signal (6922 Holland PQs) and TS 5998 output tubes.  It's really relative to your setup; ear, and music style/ source.
  
 I have a tuned WA2 setup and would recommend upgrading cables etc. with a good tube compliment before running those exotic tubes.


----------



## jsa_ind

Thank you Sir! Your advise will be followed!


----------



## nassq8

TS 5998 will take  your WA2 to another level. Comparing TS 5998 to others I have, they are different as night and day in term of musicality and performance (sound with 5998 is beautifully controlled with a touch of sweetness). I was lucky to get 4 NOS 5998 off eBay. Try your best to grab these.


----------



## jsa_ind

Thank you for the advise. Though the million dollar question is where can I find a NOS matched pair......one second thoughts in matching required? If so which of the three types of tubes need to be matched?
  
 Any/all advice would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## MIKELAP

jsa_ind said:


> Thank you for the advise. Though the million dollar question is where can I find a NOS matched pair......one second thoughts in matching required? If so which of the three types of tubes need to be matched?
> 
> Any/all advice would be greatly appreciated!


 

 Never bought matched pairs except for soxes lol and im just richer for it .Same brand and similar structure is good enough for me.Never heard a difference.


----------



## nassq8

jsa_ind said:


> Thank you for the advise. Though the million dollar question is where can I find a NOS matched pair......one second thoughts in matching required? If so which of the three types of tubes need to be matched?
> 
> Any/all advice would be greatly appreciated!


 
  
 They are getting so rare. However, you can find them here, but sold at a very steep price. I got mine for $400 (4 tubes) bidding at eBay. As it's said, I think you will be all set if you have them exact in structure, and tested by the seller as NOS. Also it is better if they also come with warranty.


----------



## ru4music

jsa_ind said:


> Thank you for the advise. Though the million dollar question is where can I find a NOS matched pair......one second thoughts in matching required? If so which of the three types of tubes need to be matched?
> 
> Any/all advice would be greatly appreciated!


 
  IMHO New Old Stock (NOS) isn't absolutely necessary, but I would strive to get as close to matched (e.g. gain levels/ construction/ date codes)  as possible.   Make sure the seller will take returns if tubes are noisy or have other issues.
  
 Tung Sol 5998 (aka 2399) may be re-branded as Chatham, IBM, etc., just make sure to get the large (Coke) bottle glass with the domino plates.  TS is the only manufacturer of this tube type (as stated above) regardless of the branding.
  
 Brimar Z80 tubes are harder to find and sometimes re-branded as GE or other, while the RFT Z80 will be easier to source (ebay.)  I would pick up a pair of the RFT while trying to source the Brimar rectifiers (the RFTs' are very good, but I think the Brimars' are even better.)
  
 As far as the small signal (i.e. medium gain) tubes, well the same rules apply.  Below is a link that is a great reference (not gospel, but a very good guide)  which echoes some of my experiences and others (that I have read) for tube selection:
  
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
  
 I have sourced tubes from all around the world and wouldn't want to restrict my purchase options to just a few sellers.  But as always: "Caveat emptor" (Latin for "buyer beware".)  Enjoy the journey!

  
 PS - Don't restrict your options to just what is listed above.  Keep the tube type (pairs) similar and sometimes you can create a set much cheaper by buying a piece from here and there (i.e. mixing and matching etc.)


----------



## ru4music

nassq8 said:


> They are getting so rare. However, you can find them here, but sold at a very steep price. I got mine for $400 (4 tubes) bidding at eBay. As it's said, I think you will be all set if you have them exact in structure, and tested by the seller as NOS. Also it is better if they also come with warranty.


 

 Ouch!  At those prices the seller must be very proud of his 5998s.


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> Neve bought matched pairs except for soxes lol and im just richer for it .


 
  
 Except I could never figure out why they didn't label each sock; which one is for the right foot and which one is for the left foot(?)!


----------



## jsa_ind

Hi All,
  
 I needed some advise here, could I replace 6AS7's with 6SN7's?
  
 I see that the 6AS7 has a 2.5A heater and 13W rating. The 6SN7 has a 5W rating.
  
 All help would be greatly appreciated!
  
 Thanks,
  
 jsa_ind


----------



## jhljhl

jsa_ind said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I needed some advise here, could I replace 6AS7's with 6SN7's?
> 
> ...


 

 No I don't think it can be done.  However you may be able to use 6sn7 in the 6922 preamp section with an adapter.


----------



## jsa_ind

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!
  
 I purchased two pairs of 6SN7 by mistake so I can give it a shot with an adapter like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-CMC-ceramic-sock-/191226140400?hash=item2c85f756f0
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## HeatFan12

jsa_ind said:


> THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!
> 
> I purchased two pairs of 6SN7 by mistake so I can give it a shot with an adapter like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-CMC-ceramic-sock-/191226140400?hash=item2c85f756f0
> 
> Thanks again!


 
  
  
 Hey jsa,
  
 Can you post your results when you receive those adapters w/ 6SN7 tubes.  Been on the fence on buying them for a while.
  
 Thanks


----------



## jhljhl

jsa_ind said:


> THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!
> 
> I purchased two pairs of 6SN7 by mistake so I can give it a shot with an adapter like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-CMC-ceramic-sock-/191226140400?hash=item2c85f756f0
> 
> Thanks again!


 

 I use that adapter on my decware taboo MKIII without issue as was told by decware it'd be fine.


----------



## ru4music

jhljhl said:


> I use that adapter on my decware taboo MKIII without issue as was told by decware it'd be fine.


 

 Do you like the results of the 6SN7 on the Decware versus the 6DJ8 type?


----------



## jhljhl

ru4music said:


> Do you like the results of the 6SN7 on the Decware versus the 6DJ8 type?


 

 I am using a basic ge 6sn7 but I do enjoy it.  There is a more spacious sound stage.  I do not know how that translates for the wa2.  But I will soon as I expect mine in a week but the extra adapter will take longer to arrive.


----------



## HeatFan12

jhljhl said:


> I use that adapter on my decware taboo MKIII without issue as was told by decware it'd be fine.


 
  
  
 Great to hear jh.  I emailed Woo about using them, but have not heard back yet.
  
 Until then, a little Sylvania 6AS7G & Tungsram EZ80 & RCA 6GU7
  
 Cheers!!!


----------



## jhljhl

heatfan12 said:


> Great to hear jh.  I emailed Woo about using them, but have not heard back yet.
> 
> Until then, a little Sylvania 6AS7G & Tungsram EZ80 & RCA 6GU7
> 
> Cheers!!!


 
  
  
 I'm looking forward to trying the adapters.  Nice pics.


----------



## HeatFan12

Thanks jh...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 You are getting more adapters for your WA2?  Which ones?


----------



## jhljhl

heatfan12 said:


> Thanks jh...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've heard that these tubes may work ECC40, ECC804, 13D3...


----------



## HeatFan12

jhljhl said:


> I've heard that these tubes may work ECC40, ECC804, 13D3...


 
  
 Hmmm.  I've heard the ECC804 is a nice sounding tube.  If you can post a pic of the adapter when you receive it.  I have several adapters for other amps but not the WA2.  I just want to make sure the 6SN7 adapter seats in the socket circle properly.  After the 6GU7s, I rolled in a couple 6CG7s.  Waiting for a few pairs of 6V tubes to see how they fare.  I need to get some adapters for the Woo..lol


----------



## jhljhl

heatfan12 said:


> Hmmm.  I've heard the ECC804 is a nice sounding tube.  If you can post a pic of the adapter when you receive it.  I have several adapters for other amps but not the WA2.  I just want to make sure the 6SN7 adapter seats in the socket circle properly.  After the 6GU7s, I rolled in a couple 6CG7s.  Waiting for a few pairs of 6V tubes to see how they fare.  I need to get some adapters for the Woo..lol


 

 Gibosi wrote a list of tubes that were compatible with 6sn7 on the WA22 including the 6dj8 tubes- I'm thinking some are compatible to 6dj8.  I can't find the post at the moment.


----------



## HeatFan12

jhljhl said:


> Gibosi wrote a list of tubes that were compatible with 6sn7 on the WA22 including the 6dj8 tubes- I'm thinking some are compatible to 6dj8.  I can't find the post at the moment.


 
  
  
 This is what I found that he wrote:
   
  
 Quote:
  


> *Actually, there are a number of medium-mu triodes you can roll in addition to the 6CG7 and ECC804.*
> 
> *ECC88/6DJ8 and premium versions: E88CC/6922 and E188CC/7308. (These require the same pin adapter as 6CG7 and ECC804).*
> 
> ...


----------



## jhljhl

heatfan12 said:


> This is what I found that he wrote:


 

 Yeah that's the list of tubes I think might be compatible but I'd see if Woo says it is a good match etc.


----------



## HeatFan12

Cool. Thanks. I'm going to try others without the adapters but I'm curious what 6922 adapter is used for these tubes. All my adapters are based on the 6sn7 on the bottom


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jhljhl

heatfan12 said:


> Cool. Thanks. I'm going to try others without the adapters but I'm curious what 6922 adapter is used for these tubes. All my adapters are based on the 6sn7 on the bottom
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





heatfan12 said:


> Cool. Thanks. I'm going to try others without the adapters but I'm curious what 6922 adapter is used for these tubes. All my adapters are based on the 6sn7 on the bottom
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I'm not sure which need adapters accept 6sn7. I wonder about the 6f8g? ??


----------



## MIKELAP

Just found out its possible to roll 6sn7 tubes in the driver position on a WA2 with proper adapters .Nice


----------



## HeatFan12

You made those Mike right. Looking good


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HeatFan12

Thanks jh. I want to try those gold ones jsa purchased. Wanna make sure they fit in the opening. I don't use socket savers

I'm good with the adapters I have for other amps. I just wanna make my WA2 more versatile. Gonne be tollin some other 6v tubes soon without adapters


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jhljhl

mikelap said:


> Just found out its possible to roll 6sn7 tubes in the driver position on a WA2 with proper adapters .Nice




Nice. How's it sound? How about 6f8g?


----------



## jhljhl

I just got it. Will try ecc804.


----------



## MIKELAP

heatfan12 said:


> You made those Mike right. Looking good
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 

 Actually i bought them on Ebay awhile back  i was using these adapters 6CG7 TO 6SN7 on my LITTLEDOT MK3 along with the 6SN7 as power tubes and Woo told me that it was  ok to use 6SN7 in the 6922 sockets on the WA2  .Woo sells these adapters also .


----------



## jhljhl

First impression.  WA2 JJ EZ81, TS 7236, Mazda(Brimar) ECC804.  It is a really smooth amp. 7236 gives a little more power and dynamics.  Can power LCD3f but bass is a little uncontrolled; some more power would help a bit.  Overall, it is really smooth combined with the warm mids of the LCD3f already.  With hd650 it has much better synergy.  I will see what the hd800 is with it like later.


----------



## mikoss

I found the WA2 did not work well driving LCD-3 fazors. The high output Z of the WA2 doesn't seem to work well with low Z planars. I think planars need some current to push them properly, whereas higher Z cans like the HD-650's work well with the voltage swing from the WA2. 

I had read one reviewer who said the WA2 drove LCD-3's well, but I found that to be complete bs. Wish it did, but it doesn't. 

HD-800 should be driven well with the WA2... The HD-800 is extremely revealing in nature though, so a lot of people who enjoy it's signature end up going with a more transparent setup, such as a solid state amp, or less romantic sound. Nothing wrong with Woo amps, a lot of them just sound like a traditional tube amp... Bloom, warmth, lushness, smoothness, etc. For myself, the thrill of the 800's is detail retrieval from an extremely resolving source. I loved the WA2, but for me, it was admittedly more smooth than revealing.


----------



## StanT

I'm not sure at what point Audeze changed the LCD-3f to 120Ω; but mine sound very good on my WA2.
  
 I bounce between Beyer T1s, LCD-3f (120Ω), a Ragnarok, and my WA2, and all combinations sound very nice.


----------



## mikoss

The fazor rev brought them to 120 ohm... I tried rolling a bunch of different tubes, and the WA2 sounded underpowered. TS 5998 might have been the best, but even then they still sounded crappy. 

I had friends audition them as well and they were constantly trying to turn the volume dial up near max on the WA2, which in turn would cause distortion. I listen normally at low levels myself, and heard a very dull presentation from the LCD's. 

Plugging them into my receiver, it had better results... It brought them back to life after sounding so dull. The receiver sound quality/presentation detracted from the WA2 that was feeding it as a pre-amp, but at least the headphones sounded like they were properly powered. 

Have you had a chance to try a WA22? I've heard it works better with planars and lower Z cans. Personally, after hearing the Zana Deux, I'd go for it, but it's pricier.


----------



## jhljhl

mikoss said:


> The fazor rev brought them to 120 ohm... I tried rolling a bunch of different tubes, and the WA2 sounded underpowered. TS 5998 might have been the best, but even then they still sounded crappy.
> 
> I had friends audition them as well and they were constantly trying to turn the volume dial up near max on the WA2, which in turn would cause distortion. I listen normally at low levels myself, and heard a very dull presentation from the LCD's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The WA22 gives the LCD3f more power and dynamics over the WA2 to me.  The WA2 has a "polite" sound with LCD to me.


----------



## mikoss

Polite to you, underpowered and dull to me.


----------



## jhljhl

mikoss said:


> Polite to you, underpowered and dull to me.


 

 That's rude -WA2 has feelings too.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

OTL amps are usually not ideal for low impedance headphones, 250 - 600 Ohms is the sweet spot.  We use HD650, HD800, or T1 with WA2 at trade shows.


----------



## jhljhl

hifiguy528 said:


> OTL amps are usually not ideal for low impedance headphones, 250 - 600 Ohms is the sweet spot.  We use HD650, HD800, or T1 with WA2 at trade shows.


 
 I changed power tubes to mullard 6080.  Wow. Synergy with hd650 is great. The bass is finally hitting hard.  I've heard good things about T1 and WA2.  There is a new T1 version coming out - I think I'll look into that.


----------



## HeatFan12

Sounds good jhl.  Glad to see those ECC804s are sounding good.  No adapter needed for those I'm guessing.
  
 Well, I have some adapters on the way for different tubes.  My WA2 will be going ultra versatile soon...lol...I've also been trying different drivers (non 6922/6DJ8) in there without adapters with great results.  I purchased mine years ago and most 6080 tubes don't fit due to the opening.


----------



## jhljhl

heatfan12 said:


> Sounds good jhl.  Glad to see those ECC804s are sounding good.  No adapter needed for those I'm guessing.
> 
> Well, I have some adapters on the way for different tubes.  My WA2 will be going ultra versatile soon...lol...I've also been trying different drivers (non 6922/6DJ8) in there without adapters with great results.  I purchased mine years ago and most 6080 tubes don't fit due to the opening.


 

 Also using a pair of 6N23P-EV with the mullard 6080 and some stock jj ez81.  It is a really nice pairing and affordable tube combo on my hd650.  Why do the openings not fit 6080?  I'll try 5998 next.


----------



## HeatFan12

jhljhl said:


> Also using a pair of 6N23P-EV with the mullard 6080 and some stock jj ez81.  It is a really nice pairing and affordable tube combo on my hd650.  Why do the openings not fit 6080?  I'll try 5998 next.


 
  
  
 Some of the 6080s I have (Bendix, Tung Sol, Raytheon) don't seat all the way down due to the circular opening around the socket.  They have wide bases.  Don't know if they made them wider on the amp through the years.  So I basically roll 6AS7G, 5998s & 6H13C for power tubes.


----------



## MIKELAP

heatfan12 said:


> jhljhl said:
> 
> 
> > Also using a pair of 6N23P-EV with the mullard 6080 and some stock jj ez81.  It is a really nice pairing and affordable tube combo on my hd650.  Why do the openings not fit 6080?  I'll try 5998 next.
> ...


 

 This is a 2013 model


----------



## HeatFan12

Thanks Mike...Looks like they might have made the opening wider through the years.  Mine don't fit.


----------



## MIKELAP

Tried 6H30Pi tubes as drivers  in my WA2 Woo says theres no problem using these tubes  but i get a buzz in the left channel tried 3 different tubes same buzzing sound in the left channel anybody try these tubes and experience same problem.   Thanks


----------



## HeatFan12

Have them in there now Mike.....Dead quiet for me with volume maxxed with source off and as well with source on and paused, volume maxxed.  Sounding good!!!  Sylvania 6AS7Gs for power and Tungsram EZ80 rectifiers.


----------



## jhljhl

^ how they sound compared to 6922?


----------



## HeatFan12

jhljhl said:


> ^ how they sound compared to 6922?


 
  
  
 Well jhl, at first I thought they were a bit thin sounding.  I let them get acquainted with the power and rectifiers and after an hour they started to mesh a bit.  Very detailed and lots of air and very spacious.  Would like a little more low end and warmth overall but great all around imo.


----------



## MIKELAP

heatfan12 said:


> Have them in there now Mike.....Dead quiet for me with volume maxxed with source off and as well with source on and paused, volume maxxed.  Sounding good!!!  Sylvania 6AS7Gs for power and Tungsram EZ80 rectifiers.


 

 Thanks for trying them out ,its very weird cleaned the pins and same result .Buzz comes in gradually within a minute or so only in left channel


----------



## jhljhl

miniwatt ez80; rca 6sa7g; mullard e188cc.  This is a very smooth sounding amp.  Lush female vocals.  Gives choral music a warm euphonic presentation.  There's also a deep bass response in rock music.


----------



## devilboy

Anyone have advice for a good sounding, RELIABLE rectifier? My right channel Mullard EZ80 has a distinct, steady hum. I'm not having good luck with tubes lately.


----------



## StanT

I've had very good luck with RFT EZ80s. They come up on Ebay pretty often and are usually pretty reasonable.They've got a unique construction and sound very good.


----------



## Puzzles

You could also try the Ei EZ80, which might be easier to obtain.


----------



## thecrow

Hi
  
 I'm looking at joining the club of wa2 members in the near future - just lining up my ducks ($$$$) in a row.
  
 I'm a newbie when it comes to tube amps, let alone tubes.
  
 Looking for advice on appropriate tubes tailored to my preferences after reading a few hundred (plus) different posts on threads here, Joe's Tube Lore (audioasylum) and some initial guidance from DubStep Girl. I notice there are a few types of tubes that keep coming up in set ups and recommendations here.
  
  
 My scenario:
  
 I have the hd800. Broad taste of music but let's work around my more common preferences of, let's say. adult contemporary rock of 80's and 90's. Steely Dan, Sting, Peter Gabriel, Tom Petty, U2, Pink Floyd, Frank Zappa, Thomas Dolby are some favourites. Also enjoy some rock/blues/soul. Vocals, piano, guitars and musical bands are important to me.
  
 I like my rich mids, extended highs and detailed, well defined (tight) bass
  
 Looking for something quite/relatively neutral but not too dark. Happy if it's a little on the bright/lively side but really close to neutral either way. Detail is important and so is imaging and something overall WELL BALANCED. I don't necessarily need a MASSIVE soundstage as such - the hd800's do pretty well by themselves there. Hope that helps.
  
  
 What i'm considering are:
  
 Rectifiers - EZ80 RFT
  
 Drivers (good references on Joe's Tube Lore) in loose preferential order - Amperex 6922 PQ White Label (non pinched or pinched) or Amperex 6922 Mullard Holland or Amperex 6DJ8 Orange globe logo Holland. Or perhaps should i go the Philips Holland Miniwatt E188CC tubes? I'm thinking these options would be better than SIemems options for me
  
 Power  - the tung sol 5998 i keep reading about as being great powerful neutral tubes but can i get these??? or GEC 6080. Still trying to get some ideas here and what is in fact available. Are all Chathams 2399 tubes tung sol 5998? i also saw a few people mention Mullard6080 from langrex (cv2984) and sylvania 6as7g and 7236. any others? where i should look to here say at up to about $400 or so for the pair.
  
 Am i heading the right way? assistance in this is much appreciated by this rookie.
  
  
 Also are there any traps for young players i should look out for?
 And what are the better sites to look at?
  
 Many thanks for any experienced input
 Peter


----------



## StanT

I'm presently using a pair of Chatham 2399s, they are the same as Tung Sol 5998s in construction, materials, and sound. All 5998s are getting a bit scarce and pricey; but it's really the "go to" tube for this amp. I prefer the GEC 6as7g; but those are stupid expensive at this point. Tung Sol 7236s seem to be more available and aren't bad, though I prefer 5998s.
  
 I've tried all of the 6922 variations that you listed and all sound very good. Sorry about your wallet; but you'll just need to try a few out and see what you prefer. I didn't care for the Siemens; but I'm in the minority.
  
 Rectifiers have the least effect on sound; but some of them suck. RFT EZ80 are very nice and come up fairly often and cheap from Eastern European countries on Ebay. Mullards and Brimar are also very nice.
  
 If you go the 5998/2399 route, buy them from someone that will take them back. While they are generally reliable tubes, sellers test them on a tube tester, rather than an amp. I've had a microphonic pair that needed to go back.


----------



## Puzzles

thecrow said:


> [...]
> 
> I like my rich mids, extended highs and detailed, well defined (tight) bass
> 
> ...


 
  
 Most important thing to keep in mind: don't spend more for tubes than for the amp  
  
 As StanT said, trying out various driver tubes is the only way to know. If you prefer crisp highs, the Philips ecc88 or e88cc might be a better choice than the e188cc because the latter tends to sound warm. I'd say that if you have a Philips e88cc, then there's no need to get a Siemens e88cc (or the other way round). The sound is only slightly different but not an improvement. 
 Some people will say that if you get a NOS 6922/7308/etc., then it should be made in the 60's because most stuff made from the 70's is supposed to sound bad not that good. 
 You could also simply ignore Joe and be done with a Voskhod 6N23P from the 70's. 
  
 GEC 6AS7G sounds nice. But its price does not justify its performance. The 5998 has a more adequate price/performance ratio. And let's say that this tube is a safe bet in the sense that you won't be ruminating about not having the best tube. 
 As StanT said, don't get them from someone who won't take them back. The odds of getting a noisy tube are relatively high.


----------



## thecrow

puzzles said:


> Most important thing to keep in mind: don't spend more for tubes than for the amp
> 
> As StanT said, trying out various driver tubes is the only way to know. If you prefer crisp highs, the Philips ecc88 or e88cc might be a better choice than the e188cc because the latter tends to sound warm. I'd say that if you have a Philips e88cc, then there's no need to get a Siemens e88cc (or the other way round). The sound is only slightly different but not an improvement.
> Some people will say that if you get a NOS 6922/7308/etc., then it should be made in the 60's because most stuff made from the 70's is supposed to sound bad not that good.
> ...


thanks to you and Stan for the info. By crisp highs do you mean they'd be detailed or forward but still smooth. For the hd800s would the overall sound still be balanced with them not being too forward or aggressive?

And would these Philips be labeled as Phillips mullard?

Also with tung-sol/ chatham2998 are all Chatham 2998 tung sols? Should they say both on the tube? What should I look for there when buying this tube?


----------



## StanT

Here's a picture of one of my 2399s. Yes, I know I need to dust it. Click to enlarge the picture.
  

  
 My knowledge is far from comprehensive; but everything I've read states that 5998s were all made by Tung Sol, regardless of labeling. I've seen top getter, bottom getters, and I have a couple pairs that are undimpled. All sound the same. 2399s appear to be the same, as well. I've seen pictures of tubes that were labeled both 2399 and 5998; but mine are not. The only thing I'd look for is the ability to return them. As the supply goes down, the crappy ones keep going around.
  
 Trying to guess preamp tubes from reviews was a losing battle for me. The best advice I can give is to find a commonly reviewed one and try it for yourself. It will give you a reference point.


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm looking at joining the club of wa2 members in the near future - just lining up my ducks ($$$$) in a row.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Peter, I concur with your research and what previous posters have added.  Knowing what I know now, If I had only one shot at a set of tubes (price/ performance) for the WA2 I would target the 5998/ 2399s (branding is not important, they're all Tung Sols), Amperex 6922 PQ Whites (Holland, USA versions are generally more expensive), and either Brimar (first choice in my setup), RFT, or early Ei EZ80s.  This is what I presently run in my system after a decade of rolling and listening in the WA3/ WA2 environment.


----------



## Puzzles

thecrow said:


> thanks to you and Stan for the info. By crisp highs do you mean they'd be detailed or forward but still smooth. For the hd800s would the overall sound still be balanced with them not being too forward or aggressive?
> 
> And would these Philips be labeled as Phillips mullard?
> 
> Also with tung-sol/ chatham2998 are all Chatham 2998 tung sols? Should they say both on the tube? What should I look for there when buying this tube?


 
  
 By crisp I mean extended treble. From your first post, I assumed you don't like it rolled-off. It will not sound aggressive or forward – probably. The only way to know whether you like it is by trying out. The Philips ecc88/e88cc is a good start. If you don't like it, try a different flavor. 
  
  
 Mullard made their own e88cc tubes, which sound a little warmer I think. There are quite a few E88CC's made by Ei but branded Philips. Make sure that the tubes have factory codes beginning with a delta sign (the triangle, not the lowercase letter), which indicates it was made in Heerlen. More information about the factory codes can be found here. 
  
  
 I only know that the 2399 has copper wires instead of steel-ish wires. There shouldn't be a difference in sound. Also, it doesn't matter whether it was made by Tung Sol or Chatham, they'll sound the same.


----------



## jhljhl

Can anyone here compare a maxxed WA2 to a standard WA2?  What are the technical differences and the sound?


----------



## thecrow

puzzles said:


> By crisp I mean extended treble. From your first post, I assumed you don't like it rolled-off. It will not sound aggressive or forward – probably. The only way to know whether you like it is by trying out. The Philips ecc88/e88cc is a good start. If you don't like it, try a different flavor.
> 
> 
> Mullard made their own e88cc tubes, which sound a little warmer I think. There are quite a few E88CC's made by Ei but branded Philips. Make sure that the tubes have factory codes beginning with a delta sign (the triangle, not the lowercase letter), which indicates it was made in Heerlen. More information about the factory codes can be found here.
> ...


Hi. You're spot on. What I look for (and again tube sound is new to me) is a sound well rounded and overall well balanced and detail. I do enjoy my treble and as long as it sounds natural, well balanced and smooth here then I like its presence and as far as I understand it that is my preferred best option against it being rolled off 

Are there any sacrifices/compromises to a tube sound by going this way? 

I'm planning on keeping my soloist amp for that brighter sound that I enjoy too. I'll also be able to use it for other low impedance headphones too. 

Thanks


----------



## ru4music

jhljhl said:


> Can anyone here compare a maxxed WA2 to a standard WA2?  What are the technical differences and the sound?


 

 What do consider to be a maxed out WA2?  Is this the WA2 parts upgrade that Woo offered way-back-when, the one that isn't offered anymore?


----------



## HeatFan12

jhljhl said:


> Can anyone here compare a maxxed WA2 to a standard WA2?  What are the technical differences and the sound?


 
  
  


ru4music said:


> What do consider to be a maxed out WA2?  Is this the WA2 parts upgrade that Woo offered way-back-when, the one that isn't offered anymore?


 
  
  
 I believe that's what jhl is inquiring about.  The upgrade package back then were the black gates: bg470u/160v(x2), bg220u/200v(x4).  Six in total


----------



## ru4music

heatfan12 said:


> I believe that's what jhl is inquiring about.  The upgrade package back then were the black gates: bg470u/160v(x2), bg220u/200v(x4).  Six in total


 

 I have not heard both, I'm running a current build WA2 with the DACT stepped attenuator upgrade.  I would guess at the time of the offered upgrade it was appreciable, however, I think over time the current build parts have been updated and the difference may not be as great as it once was (just my 2 cents.)


----------



## HeatFan12

ru4music said:


> I have not heard both, I'm running a current build WA2 with the DACT stepped attenuator upgrade.  I would guess at the time of the offered upgrade it was appreciable, however, I think over time the current build parts have been updated and the difference may not be as great as it once was (just my 2 cents.)


 
  
  
 True indeed.  I purchased mine with the upgrade package in late 2008.  Back then, the WA6 was getting all the love.  I emailed Jack about info on the WA2 and decided to go with it.  Never looked back.


----------



## Franatic

I figured I should chime in with my latest discovery in tube rolling.
  
 For the past 6 months I have been playing Western 421As, Siemens CCAs, and Brimar EZ81s......a great sounding combo I was very happy with. I read a review about the Russian tube 6N23P Reflektor 1974 or 1975 single wire getter post. I found a used pair of '74s on ebay for $45 dollars and figured I would give them a try. I was impressed, to say the least. This pair beat my beloved $300+ pair of Siemens CCAs. It just had more life, more detail and had tremendous speed and agility. It played everything I threw at it with command and ease. How did this tube evade my radar for so long.
  
 I contacted the seller and bought one of his prized pairs of matched '75s. This was a notch better than the '74s thatI was so impressed with. Wow!! Such incredible detail and imaging. Completely clear and transparent and very musical. This tube has elevated my WA2 to a new level of sound quality. My T1s never sounded better. I am very, very enamored with the sound of  this tube. I can not stop listening. I love my WA2/T1 combo
  
 Anyone interested, the seller has a pair on Ebay.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/231669183154


----------



## ru4music

puzzles said:


> You could also simply ignore Joe and be done with a Voskhod 6N23P from the 70's.


 
 Where can you still find these tubes at a decent price?  These are really becoming scarce, I noted an ebay listing for 2 NOS of this tube for $495, and they had sold two sets at this price already


----------



## ru4music

heatfan12 said:


> Never looked back.


 
 Me either!  I believe that quality standard parts may take longer to break-in and reach their full potential but will sound close to/ if not just as good as some of the salon parts (YMMV.)  With that said (at the time) I would have ordered a maxed out WA2 if it was available, but since then I have come to realize that the current build WA2 can sound amazing as well.


----------



## HeatFan12

ru4music said:


> Me either!  I believe that quality standard parts may take longer to break-in and reach their full potential but will sound close to/ if not just as good as some of the salon parts (YMMV.)  With that said (at the time) I would have ordered a maxed out WA2 if it was available, but since then I have come to realize that the current build WA2 can sound amazing as well.


 
  
  
 Right on the money!!!  At the time it was being offered so I jumped on it.  Here she is in all her glory tonight.  Fitted her with some JAN CRC 6AS7Gs & Tung Sol 6BZ8s.
  
  
 Cheers!


----------



## jhljhl

^ by any chance you ever hear a standard WA2?
  
 I really like the WA2. This OTL is special. Just wondering how the blackgates etc. make a difference.
 I've heard v-caps (very transparent) and jupiter caps (more organic layering and bloom) it seemed like; granted though in slightly different amps: taboo mkII and mkIII respectively.
  
  
 Nice pics - are those tung-sol pre-amps?


----------



## HeatFan12

jhljhl said:


> ^ by any chance you ever hear a standard WA2?
> 
> I really like the WA2. This OTL is special. Just wondering how the blackgates etc. make a difference.
> I've heard v-caps (very transparent) and jupiter caps (more organic layering and bloom) it seemed like; granted though in slightly different amps: taboo mkII and mkIII respectively.
> ...


 
  
  
 I haven't heard the standard WA2.  Really don't know what the differences would be.  At the time of purchase, Jack was offering the upgrade package so I took it.
  
 Thanks!  Yes, using Tung Sol 6BZ8 drivers.
  
 Also, been trying out a resistance/impedance adapter:


----------



## Puzzles

thecrow said:


> Are there any sacrifices/compromises to a tube sound by going this way?


 
  
 I wouldn't know there are any. It ultimately depends on your preferences though. Maybe you prefer warmth after all...
  
  


ru4music said:


> Where can you still find these tubes at a decent price?  These are really becoming scarce, I noted an ebay listing for 2 NOS of this tube for $495, and they had sold two sets at this price already


 
  
 Are we talking about the same tube? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 They are becoming scarce but their price is still low, like $50 a pair. Lots are cheaper, ten tubes can be had for $50 (most tubes are made after 1980, but there are often a few earlier tubes mixed up in there).
 I've purchased entire lots from Eastern Europe last year and even got quite a few of those Reflector single wire getter post 6N23P's. Before I knew about their special quality sound, I was annoyed that the dealer wouldn't supply what he described (he/she promised Voskhod tubes).


----------



## MIKELAP

thecrow said:


> puzzles said:
> 
> 
> > By crisp I mean extended treble. From your first post, I assumed you don't like it rolled-off. It will not sound aggressive or forward – probably. The only way to know whether you like it is by trying out. The Philips ecc88/e88cc is a good start. If you don't like it, try a different flavor.
> ...


 

 Its good to have all the angles covered same here with my Burson Conductor


----------



## rb2013

franatic said:


> I figured I should chime in with my latest discovery in tube rolling.
> 
> For the past 6 months I have been playing Western 421As, Siemens CCAs, and Brimar EZ81s......a great sounding combo I was very happy with. I read a review about the Russian tube 6N23P Reflektor 1974 or 1975 single wire getter post. I found a used pair of '74s on ebay for $45 dollars and figured I would give them a try. I was impressed, to say the least. This pair beat my beloved $300+ pair of Siemens CCAs. It just had more life, more detail and had tremendous speed and agility. It played everything I threw at it with command and ease. How did this tube evade my radar for so long.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice!  The 6n23p '75s are my favorites too.


----------



## ru4music

puzzles said:


> I wouldn't know there are any. It ultimately depends on your preferences though. Maybe you prefer warmth after all...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry, jumped ahead of myself.  These were a pair of NOS matched/ balanced 6N23P-HG '75 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shield (referenced by Franatic in his thread).  I can see now where you are coming from for used early 70's Voskhod though.  In my mind I was hoping you had a secret NOS source for the holy grail of all 6N23P(s).


----------



## Franatic

ru4music said:


> Sorry, jumped ahead of myself.  These were a pair of NOS matched/ balanced 6N23P-HG '75 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shield (referenced by Franatic in his thread).  I can see now where you are coming from for used early 70's Voskhod though.  In my mind I was hoping you had a secret NOS source for the holy grail of all 6N23P(s).


 
 Are the early '70s Voskhods considered superior to the '75 Reflektor I referenced earlier? I am new to Soviet tubes. As stated earlier, I was blown away by the '75 Reflektor, as it surpassed my beloved CCAs. I'm very curious what other Russian tubes there are that would be "Holy Grail" material and suited for the WA2. That would include power tubes or rectifiers also......Thanks


----------



## rb2013

franatic said:


> Are the early '70s Voskhods considered superior to the '75 Reflektor I referenced earlier? I am new to Soviet tubes. As stated earlier, I was blown away by the '75 Reflektor, as it surpassed my beloved CCAs. I'm very curious what other Russian tubes there are that would be "Holy Grail" material and suited for the WA2. That would include power tubes or rectifiers also......Thanks


 

 The 6N8S is a pretty good sub for the 6SN7 (I mean not totl but good) - not much else has stood out for me.  The 6n23p is the stand out in the Russian family - stumbled on these back about 7 yrs ago.  Got serious in exploring them about 3 yrs ago when I bought a Lyr HP amp.  Had been using them in a DAC and two amps.
  
 That's when I did the deep dive - posted this review of the different yrs on the old Lyr tube thread -needless to say the push-back was intense.  But as more and more folks have tried them in different equipment they have stood the test of time - in many different amps.
  
 This I wrote back in  2013:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595
  
 As far as I know this was the first time anyone had really delved into the nuanced differences in the different years and constructions.


----------



## ru4music

franatic said:


> Are the early '70s Voskhods considered superior to the '75 Reflektor I referenced earlier? I am new to Soviet tubes. As stated earlier, I was blown away by the '75 Reflektor, as it surpassed my beloved CCAs. I'm very curious what other Russian tubes there are that would be "Holy Grail" material and suited for the WA2. That would include power tubes or rectifiers also......Thanks


 

 (From reading/ reviews) I wouldn't consider them to be, but at their price point they can be very good sound wise.  Unfortunately, I'm not a Russian tube expert either, but the driver tubes you mentioned above would be the top tubes to chase for the WA2 IMHO.
  
 I do have a couple pairs of  '80s 6N1P-EV  Voshkod Rockets.  These tubes sound nice but my Amperex 6922 PQ whites easily best them.


----------



## rb2013

After exploring every Voskhod Rocket I could find  - and all the common Reflektor 6n23p dual getter posts from the '60's and 70's - I stumbled on a very rare Reflektor version with a single curved wire getter post.  I was floored at how good these were - and only found ones made in '74 and '75.
  
 Posted this review in April of 2014  - a little comparison posts #1914-1918:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/1905
  
 Followed by a June 2014 face off with some of the outstanding US and Euro tubes post #2229
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2220#post_10619095
  
 That had me curious as to how the best 6n23p's would compare with the finest 6922's ever made and the big review:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes
  
 Jude awarded me a front page kudo and Contributor status (And added it to my header).
  
 I hope this helps those wanting to explore these amazing tubes and possibly help answer any questions folks have about them.

 Cheers and Happy Rolling!





 
 Edit: Corrected link.


----------



## ru4music

rb2013 said:


> After exploring every Voskhod Rocket I could find  - and all the common Reflektor 6n23p dual getter posts from the '60's and 70's - I stumbled on a very rare Reflektor version with a single curved wire getter post.  I was floored at how good these were - and only found ones made in '74 and '75.
> 
> Posted this review in April of 2014  - a little comparison posts #1914-1918:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/1905
> ...


 

 Thank you!


----------



## rb2013

ru4music said:


> Thank you!


 

 Thanks!
  
 Here is the correct link to the big 17 6922 tube shootout review:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


----------



## Franatic

Wow rb2013! That is awesome how much research you did there. It certainly saves me a lot of work.
  
 I feel these Reflektors are probably as good as it gets. Thank you much for that. They play it all, Rock, Jazz, Classical, Electronic, or whatever with equal brilliance.


----------



## rb2013

franatic said:


> Wow rb2013! That is awesome how much research you did there. It certainly saves me a lot of work.
> 
> I feel these Reflektors are probably as good as it gets. Thank you much for that. They play it all, Rock, Jazz, Classical, Electronic, or whatever with equal brilliance.


 

 Thanks!  I have a monstrous case of audionervosa.   My wife calls my office 'The Glass Menagerie' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But seriously the payoff has been huge - the best sound I have ever had.  I run these in two integrateds, a DAC and a HP amp.  In each place they have made a tremendous difference.
  
 Despite the cost  - I feel more then justified.
  
 I do offer these on Ebay - not as a money making enterprise - but only for the fact that my biggest frustration with going down this road - was dealing in the dark seemly places of Moldovian, Bulgarian, Ukrainian, Russian Ebay tube dealers! No reputable tube dealer had the good stuff - just generic '80 V-R's.  So it's been rough - I don't know if it's been a communication problem or just whatever.  But let's just say it's been 'buyer beware' - it has gotten better.  But still close to 40% of the tubes I get are fails (yes I have a tester).  and very rare to find matched tube pairs by date and output.
  
 So I took it on myself to buy these in groups - screen out the crap - then match up them up by date and construction.  Hand select the best ones to offer up to the audio community.  I think this where they got a bum rap years ago - mismatched dates - bad tubes - just not a quality listening experience.  Not to mention what most folks have heard are the mediocre '80s and 90s' Voskhods and the common dual getter post Reflektors.
  
 It's when folks started trying the much better '70s vintage - well screened and matched - that they're reputation began to soar.  My audio legacy!
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Krutsch

franatic said:


> Anyone interested, the seller has a pair on Ebay.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/231669183154


 
 Mission accomplished ... those tubes were sold, lickity-split


----------



## Franatic

Audionervosa!!! Wanna take the test?
 http://www.audiophilia.com/features/aptest.htm


----------



## rb2013

franatic said:


> Audionervosa!!! Wanna take the test?
> http://www.audiophilia.com/features/aptest.htm


 

 I failed - but closet full of hundreds of audio cables told me that! LOL!\
  
 And this box!


----------



## ru4music

rb2013 said:


> I failed - but closet full of hundreds of audio cables told me that! LOL!\
> 
> And this box!


 

 An audio junkie would call that "Crack"!


----------



## ru4music

franatic said:


> Wow rb2013! That is awesome how much research you did there. It certainly saves me a lot of work.
> 
> *I feel these Reflektors are probably as good as it gets.* Thank you much for that. They play it all, Rock, Jazz, Classical, Electronic, or whatever with equal brilliance.


 
 I hope so!  I now have a pair inbound...  Will post impressions once they get here.


----------



## Franatic

ru4music said:


> I hope so!  I now have a pair inbound...  Will post impressions once they get here.


 
 I would be very surprised if you're not very satisfied, or better yet, blown away like me. They have gotten better since yesterday


----------



## ru4music

franatic said:


> I would be very surprised if you're not very satisfied, or better yet, blown away like me. They have gotten better since yesterday


 

 How are the 6N23p(s) doing in your WA2, still impressing?


----------



## Franatic

ru4music said:


> How are the 6N23p(s) doing in your WA2, still impressing?


 
 I switched to check out a '74 Reflektor pair I just bought. They are 95% of the '75s and also awesome. Both pairs beat my CCAS.


----------



## ru4music

franatic said:


> I switched to check out a '74 Reflektor pair I just bought. They are 95% of the '75s and also awesome. Both pairs beat my CCAS.


 

 Great!  I have a pair of '75s shipping-in as we speak, rob2013 hooked me up!  I'm excited to compare the difference(s) between my Amperex 6922 PQ whites and the Russian HG 6N23Ps.
  
 I expect good things, however,  I'll need to moderate some of my opinions until 100 to 200 hours of burn-in  as these tubes are testing NOS (i.e. Great!)


----------



## ru4music

ru4music said:


> Great!  I have a pair of '75s shipping-in as we speak, rob2013 hooked me up!  I'm excited to compare the difference(s) between my Amperex 6922 PQ whites and the Russian HG 6N23Ps.
> 
> I expect good things, however,  I'll need to moderate some of my opinions until 100 to 200 hours of burn-in  as these tubes are testing NOS (i.e. Great!)


 

 I have the '75 Reflektor pair in the system now.  I will give them a go this weekend, but I have to say my initial impression is that these are smooth, have great extension from top to bottom, and the flow and clarity (Oh my!)  I'm already hearing more detail and nuances (timbre resolution) in the music, and the tubes haven't even settled in yet.


----------



## HeatFan12

JAN CRC 6AS7G & WH 5687 & Tram EZ80 on a humid night in SoFla...Cheers!!!


----------



## ru4music

heatfan12 said:


> JAN CRC 6AS7G & WH 5687 & Tram EZ80 on a humid night in SoFla...Cheers!!!


 

 Gotta love that warm tube glow!  It's especially nice during a evening snow storm here in the Midwest during winter.  I bet you never get those in S. Florida?


----------



## ru4music

franatic said:


> I would be very surprised if you're not very satisfied, or better yet, blown away like me. They have gotten better since yesterday


 

 The '75 Reflektors have been sounding very good over the weekend, so much so, I have ordered some '74s  (silver shield/ gray plates SWGP) from their homeland.  Still giving the '75 a good listening, but when I put back in the Amperex PQ whites I'm expecting to notice a difference.  The Reflektors are seriously good!


----------



## rb2013

ru4music said:


> The '75 Reflektors have been sounding very good over the weekend, so much so, I have ordered some '74s  (silver shield/ gray plates SWGP) from their homeland.  Still giving the '75 a good listening, but when I put back in the Amperex PQ whites I'm expecting to notice a difference.  The Reflektors are seriously good!


 

 That's great - just beware that Ukrainian Ebay seller - he has sent me many bad tubes and when I complained he refunded me and blocked me. 
  
 These were actually made in Saratov, Russia.
  
 Happy rolling and Good luck!


----------



## ru4music

rb2013 said:


> That's great - just beware that Ukrainian Ebay seller - he has sent me many bad tubes and when I complained he refunded me and blocked me.
> 
> These were actually made in Saratov, Russia.
> 
> Happy rolling and Good luck!


 

 Thanks for the heads-up!  These may go back as well if they are not as described and pictured.  When you  say "bad" do you mean not as pictured, noisy etc?


----------



## rb2013

ru4music said:


> Thanks for the heads-up!  These may go back as well if they are not as described and pictured.  When you  say "bad" do you mean not as pictured, noisy etc?


 

 All of the above - ordered a batch.  Some were just different then described. Some out right fails - others noisy or badly microphonic.   This was early in my experience in buying these.  I learned that when you leave negative feedback - and you get a 'complaint resolution' and refunded - the negative feedback gets retracted as well.
  
 At least that's how it used to work.  But the I found out the dealer had banned me from buying his other auctions/listings.
 Not everyone has a tube tester - so I guess they get away with it.  I learned ot not complain - and just suck it up.  Ugg!  As I said not a great audio experience - dealing in the dark damp space of Eastern European Ebay tube peddlers!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





LOL!
  
 As time went on I learned that there are a few good guys - but they rarely list and when they do it's expensive.


----------



## ru4music

rb2013 said:


> All of the above - ordered a batch.  Some were just different then described. Some out right fails - others noisy or badly microphonic.   This was early in my experience in buying these.  I learned that when you leave negative feedback - and you get a 'complaint resolution' and refunded - the negative feedback gets retracted as well.
> 
> At least that's how it used to work.  But the I found out the dealer had banned me from buying his other auctions/listings.
> Not everyone has a tube tester - so I guess they get away with it.  I learned ot not complain - and just suck it up.  Ugg!  As I said not a great audio experience - dealing in the dark damp space of Eastern European Ebay tube peddlers!
> ...


 

 I understand.  On this auction I had to get the seller to correct the description (based on the photos) from gray shields/ silver plates to silver shields/ gray plates.  After he made the correction all the other sets sold out quickly.  I have a tube tester, and a genuine '75 set to reference/ audition against when I receive them.  If something isn't right,  I have 14 days to send them back (and trust me I will.)


----------



## rb2013

ru4music said:


> I understand.  On this auction I had to get the seller to correct the description (based on the photos) from gray shields/ silver plates to silver shields/ gray plates.  After he made the correction all the other sets sold out quickly.  I have a tube tester, and a genuine '75 set to reference/ audition against when I receive them.  If something isn't right,  I have 14 days to send them back (and trust me I will.)


 

 Good deal - maybe he's cleaned up his act.   Happy sailing!


----------



## ru4music

rb2013 said:


> Good deal - maybe he's cleaned up his act.   Happy sailing!


 

 BTW, the `75 Reflektors sound fantastic in the WA2!


----------



## HeatFan12

ru4music said:


> Gotta love that warm tube glow!  It's especially nice during a evening snow storm here in the Midwest during winter.  I bet you never get those in S. Florida?


 
  
  
 Indeed!  Love the tube glow.....LOL...Nope, no snow storms down here....If it goes below 70 degrees there's widespread panic...


----------



## rb2013

ru4music said:


> BTW, the `75 Reflektors sound fantastic in the WA2!


 

 That is great news - they get better with some run time - out past 200 hrs.

 Cheers


----------



## jhljhl

For those interested in the telefunkens
  
 http://www.partsconnexion.com/tube_nos_6dj8_6922.html


----------



## ru4music

jhljhl said:


> For those interested in the telefunkens
> 
> http://www.partsconnexion.com/tube_nos_6dj8_6922.html


 

 Good markdowns!  Also, for comparisons:
  
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/


----------



## HeatFan12

Finally some 6SN7 love for the WA2!!!
  
 Cheers!!!


----------



## ru4music

heatfan12 said:


> Finally some 6SN7 love for the WA2!!!
> 
> Cheers!!!


 

 Where did you get your adapters?  How do you like the sound?


----------



## HeatFan12

ru4music said:


> Where did you get your adapters?  How do you like the sound?


 
  
 The sound is wonderful!  Been collecting 6SN7s for a long time and have some very nice pairs I use with other amps.  To be able to use them in the WA2 is outstanding.
  
 Cheers!
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-6SN7-B65-to-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-Tube-Amplifier-Socket-converter-adapter/281771450569?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33058%26meid%3D9afdc3863fad4171bef333452db3fd7b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D281776314354


----------



## jhljhl

heatfan12 said:


> The sound is wonderful!  Been collecting 6SN7s for a long time and have some very nice pairs I use with other amps.  To be able to use them in the WA2 is outstanding.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-6SN7-B65-to-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-Tube-Amplifier-Socket-converter-adapter/281771450569?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33058%26meid%3D9afdc3863fad4171bef333452db3fd7b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D281776314354


 

 Yeah - agree.  Sound is spacious I think- a mini wa22 lol.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 sorta.  But there is an added airiness but it is still smooth but less smooth than 6922. Using fivre 6sn7.  Very nice.


----------



## HeatFan12

LOL jhl........
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Mini WA22....I've had my WA2 since 2009 and was communicating with Jack on the WA22 before it came out...He confirmed the 6SN7 driver but I already had a balanced setup so I passed it up.
  
 There is just soooo many tubes to try in the WA2. The 6922 is an awesome tube and I have tried many from the globes to the reflektors.  I also have a hybrid that uses 6922/6DJ8 so I have tried a lot.
  
 It's time to go to the dark side.  The 6922 is not the end all be all.....I am an adapter freak and have tried many tubes in many different amps.  The 6SN7 takes the WA2 to another level as well as other off the wall tubes.  You should check out the DV336SE thread (Part II) I started over seven years ago.  We cross reference tubes with adapters with the Elise and WA2 and DV.  If it works with my 6CG7 adapter, it will work in the WA2.
  
 This setup I'm listening to now will rival any 6922.
  
 JAN-CRC 6AS7G power tubes and JAN-CHS 6SN7GT VT-231 drivers.
  
 Come to the dark side guys.......A big wide world out there...Give the 6922 a rest.  I have tried many driver tubes in the WA2.....My TS 6BK7B will put the '75 reflektors in timeout in a corner with nowhere to run.....I paid 12 beans shipped for them..Time to expand the horizons fellas!!!!!
  
 Cheers!!!


----------



## HeatFan12

Dark side guys...Expand the possibilities of the WA2...  Here is just the tip of the iceberg....More have been tried and tested.....
  
  
 6BZ8 drivers
  

  
  
  
 5687 drivers
  

  
  
  
  
 6H30PiEH drivers
  

  
  
  
 6GU7 drivers


----------



## ru4music

heatfan12 said:


> LOL jhl........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I will be looking into this!


----------



## jhljhl

> My TS 6BK7B will put the '75 reflektors in timeout in a corner with nowhere to run.....I paid 12 beans shipped for them..Time to expand the horizons fellas!!!!!


 
  
  
 That's high praise!   What about those other^ tubes above?


----------



## ru4music

jhljhl said:


> That's high praise!   What about those other^ tubes above?


 

 Yeah, what about those other tubes?


----------



## HeatFan12

jhljhl said:


> That's high praise!   What about those other^ tubes above?


 
  
  


ru4music said:


> Yeah, what about those other tubes?


 
  
  
 LOL!   High praise indeed!!!  The other tubes in the pics?  That's just some I have pics for with the WA2?  The DV336SE (Part II) is where I usually post.  And yes, I have put various 6922/6DJ8 drivers in the DV as well, with adapters.  And when I took the 6H30PiEH power tubes from the LD MKIV SE and tried them in the WA2 as drivers, the MKIVSE was mad, so I tried several 6922/6DJ8s as power tubes in the MKIVSE.  And they got spanked nicely and sounded great....Everyone has to be happy...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's all about rolling guys....If we wanted one sound we would have stuck with solid state.  The 6922 will not rule the tube world.  Even though some folks would like it to.  I love their sound and think their balance is great but there are others out there to experience.
  
 I did a lot of experimenting with possible tubes for the WA2 as well as the DV.  The WA2 took more time since two drivers are needed and I had to update my collection with pairs I did not have.
  
 So far, driver tubes I have tried in the WA2 (various different brands).....With and without adapters....6922/6DJ8/ECC88, 6BK7B, 6BZ8, 6BZ7 (6BQ7A), 6SN7, 6CG7, 6GU7, 6BS8, 6BC8, 6H30PiEH, 5687, 5670 (2C51/396A).
  
 Waiting for some 7N7/7AF7 to 6922 adapters to throw these in there too.....
  
 I also have many 6AS7G/6080 power tubes in pairs....(TS5998, Bendix, TS, Raytheon etc.)...But for testing drivers I stick with RCA JAN-CRC 6AS7Gs or GEs 6AS7Gs.
  
 Come to the dark side guys......It's a lot of fun......


----------



## billerb1

Sceeert !!!


----------



## devilboy

Just when I'm content with my current tube setup, a guy like HeatFan12 comes along opening both the doors of new, interesting options and possibilities and............ my wallet. 
But seriously Heat fan, thanks for some new ideas. Looks like you've done a lot of homework.


----------



## ru4music

heatfan12 said:


> LOL!   High praise indeed!!!  The other tubes in the pics?  That's just some I have pics for with the WA2?  The DV336SE (Part II) is where I usually post.  And yes, I have put various 6922/6DJ8 drivers in the DV as well, with adapters.  And when I took the 6H30PiEH power tubes from the LD MKIV SE and tried them in the WA2 as drivers, the MKIVSE was mad, so I tried several 6922/6DJ8s as power tubes in the MKIVSE.  And they got spanked nicely and sounded great....Everyone has to be happy...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I can see you're leading us horses by dangling a carrot tube in front of us!  LOL


----------



## HeatFan12

Thanks!!!
  
  
 Lol...The WA2 I barely rolled any tubes in, before finding these other ones.  Went like a year with the same power, drivers and rectifiers.  Then, experimenting with the DV was when the flood gates opened....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.....I figured if they can go on an adapter that I use with the 6SN7, why not try them out on the WA2.
  
 The 6SN7 was the one I was really looking forward to using with the WA2.  Was worried about the socket opening not being large enough, but luckily the adapter fit perfectly.
  
  
 It's just great to have options imo.....


----------



## jhljhl

heatfan12 said:


> Thanks!!!
> 
> 
> Lol...The WA2 I barely rolled any tubes in, before finding these other ones.  Went like a year with the same power, drivers and rectifiers.  Then, experimenting with the DV was when the flood gates opened....
> ...


 
  
 6sn7 sound good in the WA2.  I tried out the well known pinch waist 6922 to hear what the "best" sounds like - it is impressive in the WA2.  Adds a sparkle - nice treble extension.  But will try these other tubes - fivre 6sn7 gave air to the sound and warmer. Thanks for the info.  How about the 6f8g?


----------



## ru4music

jhljhl said:


> 6sn7 sound good in the WA2.  I tried out the well known pinch waist 6922 to hear what the "best" sounds like - it is impressive in the WA2.  Adds a sparkle - nice treble extension.  But will try these other tubes - fivre 6sn7 gave air to the sound and warmer. Thanks for the info.  *How about the 6f8g?*


 
  
@MIKELAP Mike aren't you using a double adapter in your WA2 for the 6f8g type?


----------



## MIKELAP

ru4music said:


> jhljhl said:
> 
> 
> > 6sn7 sound good in the WA2.  I tried out the well known pinch waist 6922 to hear what the "best" sounds like - it is impressive in the WA2.  Adds a sparkle - nice treble extension.  But will try these other tubes - fivre 6sn7 gave air to the sound and warmer. Thanks for the info.  *How about the 6f8g?*
> ...


 

 Yes , 6f8g to 6sn7 and 6sn7 to 6cg7 the last adapter i was already  using in my Littledot amp  for the 6SN7 as power tubes  but it works in WA2


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> Yes , 6f8g to 6sn7 and 6sn7 to 6cg7 the last adapter i was already  using in my Littledot amp  for the 6SN7 as power tubes  but it works in WA2


 
 Thanks Mike, appreciate the response!


----------



## HeatFan12

A little GE 6BZ7/6BQ7A love:
  
 Cheers!!!


----------



## thecrow

Seeking more tube info. I'm new to this tube world. 

Would there be much difference between these Amperex 6922 white label PQs? I believe that are both USA made. 

1) 1960s halo getter; and, 
2) late 50's/early 60's d getter

Thanks


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> Seeking more tube info. I'm new to this tube world.
> 
> Would there be much difference between these Amperex 6922 white label PQs? I believe that are both USA made.
> 
> ...


 

 Both are very good, but between the two I would likely go with 50s/60s "D" getter option provided the cost, condition, matching etc. are the same.


----------



## thecrow

ru4music said:


> Both are very good, but between the two I would likely go with 50s/60s "D" getter option provided the cost, condition, matching etc. are the same.


I ended up with the o getters as they were cheaper ($300 v 230 per pair). I was informed that the d getters were made til early 60s (I think 1861) then the o getters were used


----------



## jhljhl

I tried the siemens cca 1960s.  They are really wonderful in the wa2.  Incredible depth and texture and treble extension with gec 6sa7.  Tung sol 7236 provide nice power and speed: if you want to make your wa2 sound closer to a wa22- it gives that kind of presentation.


----------



## ru4music

jhljhl said:


> I tried the siemens cca 1960s.  They are really wonderful in the wa2.  Incredible depth and texture and treble extension with gec 6sa7.  Tung sol 7236 provide nice power and speed: if you want to make your wa2 sound closer to a wa22- it gives that kind of presentation.


 

 Have you ever tried the `74 or `75 (SWGP) 6N23P Reflektor?  Best extension (top-to-bottom) and smooth detailed sound I have yet to come across in the WA2.


----------



## thecrow

I just bought a pair of Siemens Cca tubes (halo better) with the code of A1 6B. Does this mean they were made in Munich in 1966?

I've googled around and this is the only real, though not definite, conclusion I've made


----------



## jhljhl

thecrow said:


> I just bought a pair of Siemens Cca tubes (halo better) with the code of A1 6B. Does this mean they were made in Munich in 1966?
> 
> I've googled around and this is the only real, though not definite, conclusion I've made


 

 A1 I think means 1st revision - they go up to A6?  In any case, the earliest I think are considered the best- so you've sourced some of the best siemen cca's.  Let us know what you think.


----------



## thecrow

jhljhl said:


> A1 I think means 1st revision - they go up to A6?  In any case, the earliest I think are considered the best- so you've sourced some of the best siemen cca's.  Let us know what you think.



Will do. But this is all new to me. I've been quite itchy waiting for my wa2 to arrive. 

Somehow I've managed not to upgrade a dac yet but I've picked up some used Gec 6as7gs, nod 6922 Amperex PQs (USA made), rft ez80 and now these used Cca tubes. 

I'm ready to roll: Lots of homework to do in the upcoming few weeks.

The info on here, and the help of dubstep girl and others eg badas) has been great. And joes tube lore.


----------



## picklgreen

Post a picture of the tubes you are asking about. You can tell what year by what the look like also.


----------



## thecrow

picklgreen said:


> Post a picture of the tubes you are asking about. You can tell what year by what the look like also.


 

 sure
  
 here's the link to the item - only one pic
  
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Siemens-CCa-6922-6DJ8-Vacuum-Tubes-2-w-Gold-pins-Shield-The-very-best-/131614286941?hash=item1ea4d2a45d


----------



## picklgreen

Yup, definetly 1960's tubes. Hopefully you'll get a pair without any noise. I have those exact tubes you bought but the e88CC version of them. The CCA I have are the later 1970's non a-Frame ones. They suck.


----------



## thecrow

picklgreen said:


> Yup, definetly 1960's tubes. Hopefully you'll get a pair without any noise. I have those exact tubes you bought but the e88CC version of them. The CCA I have are the later 1970's non a-Frame ones. They suck.


 

 so these should be quite decent and quite special, if without noise?
  
 do yours suck purely due to noise?


----------



## picklgreen

Yes. My e88CC are incredible. Ive been meaning to pick up some CCA like yours but im saving for some telefunken 308S tubes. The GEC tubes you have are great sounding but i highly reccommend getting some Western Electric 421A.

Here is my WA2


----------



## thecrow

i've held back on the western electric/tung sol 5998 for now.
  
 with my prefs, i've been told the gecs should do best with the hd800/wa2
  
 i'll sus those out (and the stock tubes as a comparison) and go from there if i decide to look elsewhere
  
  
 what are the telefunken 308s tubes - i haven't come across those


----------



## picklgreen

The telefunken ecc308s are 12ax7 equivalents. They are for a jolida jd9 phono stage I have. The tung sol 5998 dont sound very good at all. They sound nothing like the WE 421A. Another good choice is the GEC 6080.


----------



## thecrow

i'll keep the gec 6080s in mind - once me and the amp get well acquainted
  
 cheers
 peter


----------



## jhljhl

picklgreen said:


> The telefunken ecc308s are 12ax7 equivalents. They are for a jolida jd9 phono stage I have. The tung sol 5998 dont sound very good at all. They sound nothing like the WE 421A. Another good choice is the GEC 6080.


 

 I think you're being rather picky pickl. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  The 5998s I've heard are quite nice but not as refined as 421a.


----------



## ru4music

jhljhl said:


> I think you're being rather picky pickl.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1
  
 The 5998s sound fantastic with my `75 and `74 6N23P Reflektors and Amperex PQ whites.


----------



## tubesareus

Hi guys.
  
 I purchased something like this " NOS NIB Bendix Red Bank 6082A tubes -tested- 26v 6080 6as7".
 This was last minute purchase and now I have some doubts . Can't find any info on this tube , well plenty info on Bendix in general
 but this 6082A and 26V worries me . Is this something save to use in WA2 ?


----------



## ru4music

tubesareus said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I purchased something like this " NOS NIB Bendix Red Bank 6082A tubes -tested- 26v 6080 6as7".
> This was last minute purchase and now I have some doubts . Can't find any info on this tube , well plenty info on Bendix in general
> but this 6082A and 26V worries me . Is this something save to use in WA2 ?


 

 No, the 6082 tube requires 26.5 volts for the filament (heater) and the 6080 tube (i.e. WA2) uses 6.3 volts.  Other tube characteristics between the two types seem similar, but the 6082 tube would require 4 times the heater voltage for it to operate properly.


----------



## Franatic

heatfan12 said:


> LOL jhl........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I recently installed a pair of "75 Reflektor single wire getter 6N23Ps that were the best in my WA2 to date and made my Siemens CCAs kind of obsolete. A truly great tube in the 6922/6DJ8 family. I was very happy with these tubes.
  
 Well, Heatfan, you enticed me to the other side. I am always willing to try something better. I bought the 6SN7 to ECC88 adapter and a pair of Sylvania VT-231s and gave them a try.................Wow, this does bring the WA2 to another level. The detail retrieval and timbre of these tubes is outstanding and the soundstage and imaging are spectacular. Percussion, horns, guitars and vocals all sound more realistic. The  downside from the Reflektors is in the lower bass region, they don't go as deep. Also, there is a bit less smoothness, although that can be expected when you are retrieving micro-details. I can tell you these tubes pair beautifully with the WE-421A power tubes.
  
 The Sylvania VT-231s were my entry point to see how good ~6SN7 types are in the WA2. I am convinced and will be plotting my next move........there are many possibilities with this tube family. Time to do some research................thanks for the prodding HeatFan12!


----------



## picklgreen

I had no idea you could use the 6SN7 type tubes in the WA2 with an adapter! OK adapters on order. Now what are the best price no object holy grail 6SN7 type tubes you can get? You know the ones you'd sell a kidney for.


----------



## tubesareus

Thank you .
 I should have known better to ask before purchase.


----------



## tubesareus

tubesareus said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I purchased something like this " NOS NIB Bendix Red Bank 6082A tubes -tested- 26v 6080 6as7".
> This was last minute purchase and now I have some doubts . Can't find any info on this tube , well plenty info on Bendix in general
> but this 6082A and 26V worries me . Is this something save to use in WA2 ?


 
  


ru4music said:


> No, the 6082 tube requires 26.5 volts for the filament (heater) and the 6080 tube (i.e. WA2) uses 6.3 volts.  Other tube characteristics between the two types seem similar, but the 6082 tube would require 4 times the heater voltage for it to operate properly.


 
  


tubesareus said:


> Thank you .
> I should have known better to ask before purchase.


 

 Ok this looks better.


----------



## jhljhl

picklgreen said:


> I had no idea you could use the 6SN7 type tubes in the WA2 with an adapter! OK adapters on order. Now what are the best price no object holy grail 6SN7 type tubes you can get? You know the ones you'd sell a kidney for.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread
  
 6sn7 reference thread


----------



## rb2013

Buyer beware Seller on Ebay of Russian tubes goes by nos-tube.  Received a box of tubes - 80% fails or the wrong tube.  Refuses to issue a refund.
  
 Ugg!  These Ukrainian Ebay dealers make me nuts!


----------



## ru4music

rb2013 said:


> Buyer beware Seller on Ebay of Russian tubes goes by nos-tube.  Received a box of tubes - 80% fails or the wrong tube.  Refuses to issue a refund.
> 
> Ugg!  These Ukrainian Ebay dealers make me nuts!


 

 Was this recently Rob?


----------



## rb2013

ru4music said:


> Was this recently Rob?


 

 Yes - just got them.  Ugg!  The worst was out of 4 of the HGs all were fails!  Send the common mediocre double getter post Reflektors that aren't worth more then a few dollars.  The single wire getter ones are the hard ones to find.


----------



## picklgreen

Hopefully you paid with paypay. File a dispute claim or if you just paid directly with a credit card open a fraud claim with them! You will get your money back. Usually its guarnteed when its a russian seller.


----------



## picklgreen

Where are all the Brimar ez80 tubes hiding!? Anyone have a good pair for sale?


----------



## picklgreen

CCA or Sylvania 6SN7GT? And no dont even think about recommending those ridiculous russian e88cc knockoffs. I have a strict rule of no russian or chinese tubes in my house! I dont care how good you claim they sound, im not buying it! Theyre GARBAGE!


----------



## rb2013

picklgreen said:


> Hopefully you paid with paypay. File a dispute claim or if you just paid directly with a credit card open a fraud claim with them! You will get your money back. Usually its guarnteed when its a russian seller.


 

 Yes I filed a claim - but I really wanted the tubes.


----------



## ru4music

rb2013 said:


> Yes I filed a claim - but I really wanted the tubes.


 
 I've had good luck with the quad of `74 Reflektors I purchased from this seller; although prices have gone up:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-Matched-QUAD-REFLEKTOR-SingleWire-SilverShield-74-1-/171957213838?hash=item280972da8e:g:XbEAAOSwu4BV5Y6z


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> I've had good luck with the quad of `74 Reflektors I purchased from this seller; although prices have gone up:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-Matched-QUAD-REFLEKTOR-SingleWire-SilverShield-74-1-/171957213838?hash=item280972da8e:g:XbEAAOSwu4BV5Y6z


 

 Bought. Hopefully, I'm not sorry I let myself impulse buy these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have some of the double wire models to which you refer above; you're right, those tubes aren't worth more than a couple of dollars.
  
 I am anxious to try what you call the holy grail of 6922 drivers - they will have stiff competition in my WA3, driving a Western Electric 421a and being compared to my trusty Siemens E288CC, CCa or Telefunken E188CC.
  
 Waiting patiently for delivery ...


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> Bought. Hopefully, I'm not sorry I let myself impulse buy these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 These tubes are (IMHO) very good; but, they're not the "end-all-be-all" tube (nothing is.)  However, they do handle sonic speed, as well as reduce congestion (i.e. allow detail)  in modern rock recordings etc. with great extension (top-to-bottom.)  For a 6DJ8 they do great!  YMMV...  I know mine does daily.
  
 Hope the sale works for you as it did for me, but my experience has been good so far!
  
 Enjoy Music!!!
  
 No regrets from my purchase; these tubes are great to have in your tube arsenal.


----------



## ru4music

picklgreen said:


> Where are all the Brimar ez80 tubes hiding!? Anyone have a good pair for sale?


 

 They appear under different labels more often than not; GE is very common.  I also have some labeled under the German army seal.  To find some (paired) labeled under Brimar is getting extremely rare.  YOU need to review their construction and reach out to tube vendors/ and search auction sites.


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> Bought. Hopefully, I'm not sorry I let myself impulse buy these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Looking forward to your impressions, but please keep (in my estimate) that the more detail resolution in a system the better.   Also, these tubes take 100 to 200 hours to break-in!


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> Looking forward to your impressions, but please keep (in my estimate) that the more detail resolution in a system the better.   Also, t*hese tubes take 100 to 200 hours to break-in!*


 
  
 Thanks and I look forward to the detail (the Telefunken tubes are my current champs in this regard).
  
 Hmm... 100 - 200 hours... I've noticed this with my GEC 6AS7g brown base tubes - I didn't really see the value when I first tried them; but now it's been about a month of listening and I am liking them a lot more. I wonder if 200 hours is standard for all tubes.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Can anyone tell me if rolling better tubes will add more sub-bass. Like the stock WA2 doesn't kick or have the thump for bass.
  
 Will adding more expensive tubes add significant more sub bass rumble?
  

 Everyone recommend the Tung-Sol 5998 for the power tubes, but what about the Rectifier & Driver tubes.
 Will changing them also change the bass as well?


----------



## thecrow

thenewguy007 said:


> Can anyone tell me if rolling better tubes will add more sub-bass. Like the stock WA2 doesn't kick or have the thump for bass.
> 
> Will adding more expensive tubes add significant more sub bass rumble?
> 
> ...


Ive found this very useful. 

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html


----------



## basman

thenewguy007 said:


> Can anyone tell me if rolling better tubes will add more sub-bass. Like the stock WA2 doesn't kick or have the thump for bass.
> 
> Will adding more expensive tubes add significant more sub bass rumble?
> 
> ...




I found significant bass improvement from source adjustment. I'm using stock tubes with analog source and rs1.....yes rs1 even my self I can't believe the result because this is in contrast to what I read from the wa2 thread.


----------



## picklgreen

thenewguy007 said:


> Can anyone tell me if rolling better tubes will add more sub-bass. Like the stock WA2 doesn't kick or have the thump for bass.
> 
> Will adding more expensive tubes add significant more sub bass rumble?
> 
> ...


 

 If all you want is sub bass rumble, sell the WA2 and buy some crappy beats headphones and a BOSE stereo!


----------



## Shaffer

picklgreen said:


> *If all you want is sub bass rumble, sell the WA2 and buy some crappy beats headphones and a BOSE stereo!*




Or, a Feliks Elise, an OTL that has subterranean bass . FWIW, my WA6 is limited in its extension; barely dips into the lowest octave. What's there, though, can be made to sound fairly powerful with careful tube selection, and the bottles don't have to be expensive or highly revered on the forum. As an example, the Brimar rectifier often recommended makes it sound absolutely anemic. FWIW, I use tubes that barely anyone talks about and a few that some may not have heard of. But, I digress. The point is, I guess, that if one's optimized the amp and he's still not happy with it, there are other options aside from Beats and Bose, which BTW can only dream of hitting the bottom octave with a reasonable distortion component.


----------



## picklgreen

Well if he wants truly serious bass than he needs to buy 6SN7 to 6922 converters and a pair of KENRAD Staggered Plate 6SN7GT. You can get the converters directly from WOO ($40 each + shipping).


----------



## Thenewguy007

picklgreen said:


> If all you want is sub bass rumble, sell the WA2 and buy some crappy beats headphones and a BOSE stereo!


 
  
 I actually do have another amp that gives significantly more bass rumble, I was just wondering if tube rolling can really add to the WA2.
 The WA2 soundstage is the best I've heard from an amp & that's just from stock tubes. I just want to add that rumble on the low end that the stock WA2 can not produce.
  
 BTW I did read through this entire thread.
  
 Everyone agrees that the Tung-Sol 5998 are the best for the power tube selections?
 I read like 80 different posts basically all agreeing to that.
 A few did recommend TungSol & GEC 6AS7G as a alternative, though the ratio of people favoring the TS 5998 is overwhelming.
  
  
 The best Rectifier tube isn't so unanimous.
 Brimar, Telefunken or Mullard EZ80 (does the difference in manufacturer make that much of a difference).
 Also Siemens, Telefunken E88CC has been mentioned as being a step up.
  
 Then someone said the 1975 Reflektor 6n23p was by far the best.
  
 Then recently in the thread, there was talk of using 6SN7 to ECC88 adapters to get even better options.
 So the 6SN7GT rectifier tubes are generally more powerful than the E|Z80 & E88CC?


----------



## picklgreen

thenewguy007 said:


> So the 6SN7GT rectifier tubes are generally more powerful than the E|Z80 & E88CC?


 
 Silly rabbit! 6SN7GT are not rectifiers! They are dual triodes! They would replace the 6922/E88CC tubes. And the Tung-Sol 5998 are garbage! I own those, the GEC 6080 & 6AS7G and the WE 421A. The Tung-Sol are the worst of the bunch! The WE 421A are the best hands down. Best bass, best soundstage, best detail, etc etc. The 6n23p are russian crap. They are basically their version of the 6922. A very poor imitation actually. I would never use that garbage in my amp. Russians make JUNK!


----------



## Thenewguy007

Oh, so the 421A are the best power tubes, the ones that need a adapter?
 Are there any cheaper various on them? I'm guessing they run in the $200 range.
  
 Also what would be the best rectifier tube.


----------



## StanT

Keep in mind, opinions on tubes are simply opinions. They vary a lot.
  
 421A vs 5998 has been debated to death.  I'm in agreement with the the following post (and own both), Mr Pickle disagrees.
  
Visual evidence Tung-Sol 5998 = Western Electric 421 I prefer GEC 6AS7G to the 5998; but the price of them is insane, any more. I feel guilty using the ones that I have (I'll get over it).
  
 Most any of the tubes mentioned will be a huge improvement over stock. Tung Sol 7236s are another option. Unfortunately, there's no one-size-fits-all for tubes. You'll just have to find your preference. In my opinion, the Tung Sol 5998 or 7236 have the best price/performance. Of course, if money is not a concern, just buy two of each and let us know what your opinion is.
  
 I use the preamp (6922) tubes to tune the WA2 to my headphones. My preference changes when I move between them. I like Siemens with my Senn 650s; but they are too harsh with my T1s. I'm using a Mazda E188cc with the T1s, right now. It's an obscure tube that seems similar to the Phillips SQ.  Again, you'll have to read up and try a few.
  
 Rectifiers have the least impact on sound, I like Mullard and RFT; but rectifiers are cheap.
  
 I've never met a Russian tube for the WA2 that I liked. Your mileage may vary.


----------



## picklgreen

No the 421A are not the ones that require the adapter. That is the 6SN7GT.


----------



## Thenewguy007

stant said:


> Keep in mind, opinions on tubes are simply opinions. They vary a lot.
> 
> Unfortunately, there's no one-size-fits-all for tubes. You'll just have to find your preference. In my opinion, the Tung Sol 5998 or 7236 have the best price/performance. Of course, if money is not a concern, just buy two of each and let us know what your opinion is.


 
  
 Money is a concern. Very much a concern 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Going to have to try them one by one, especally the ones that go for over $200.
  
 I get there is no best of the best that everyone agrees on, but Is there no general consensus on best individual tubes for 1) the widest soundstage 2) most added full body to mids & bass 3) sub-bass rumble/thump/slam.
 I mean most people agree which headphone is the best soundstage or for bass (or at least can narrow them down to a few specific ones).
  
  


> Rectifiers have the least impact on sound, I like Mullard and RFT; but rectifiers are cheap


 
   
  
 So the Rectifiers & preamp tube don't affect the sound anywhere as much as the power tubes correct?
 I can just buy two power tubes & not worry about the other 4 smaller tubes.


----------



## jhljhl

Hi all, I've some wa2 tubes for sale in the classifieds.


----------



## StanT

All 3 tubes on the WA2 affect the sound. The power tubes seem to have the most effect. I don't know what Woo is shipping these days; but the GE 6080s that I got were pretty awful. Most everything mentioned is going to be a significant upgrade.
  
 The most bass heavy power tube that I've heard were Bendix 6080s with graphite plates. I really didn't care for them and they are a bit scarce; but some people think highly of them. Mine are labeled Chatham; but the graphite plates are unmistakable. 
  
 I'd replace the power and rectifiers first. The rectifiers only because they are cheap. There are several listings of RFTs on Ebay for $20/pair.
  
 Preamp tubes are more like fine tuning and matching everything else. They are expensive; but seem to outlast the others by 2 or 3x. The Phillips JAN 6922 that were OEM to me, aren't half bad (suck less?).
  
 Whatever route you take on power tubes, make sure they are returnable. As supplies dry up, the crummy ones seem to stay in circulation.


----------



## Krutsch

> Originally Posted by *StanT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have all of the above, but used with a WA3, so my comments should be taken with a grain of salt.
  
 The GECs are a nice improvement over the 5998; I find the latter too bloomy in the upper bass for my tastes (but some folks like that sound). The GECs have a nice, balanced, warm sound that doesn't seem to accentuate any particular part of the range (i.e. bass, mids, treble). It took me some time to appreciate the GECs, but burn-in matters with tubes.
  
 Another option that doesn't get a lot of love on head-fi: Tung-Sol 6520, which I believe was sold as a "premium" 5998. I bought some of these for a lot less than the 5998s and, IMO, are one of the best power tubes out there. YMMV.
  
 As for the 421 debate, I am convinced the other way. I know where my 421a tubes came from, they are physically different (internally) from my 5998 tubes (I have 5 of each) and they sound *way* different. But again, YMMV (there may be different runs of the 421a and its possible that some 421a tubes were just rebranded 5998 - contract manufacturing and relabeling was very common for all of the vendors).


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> Looking forward to your impressions, but please keep (in my estimate) that the more detail resolution in a system the better.   Also, these tubes take 100 to 200 hours to break-in!


 

 Hey, just received the new Reflektors you suggested. Burn-in starts today! I will post my impressions, but I am looking forward to these. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Thenewguy007

picklgreen said:


> Well if he wants truly serious bass than* he needs to buy 6SN7 to 6922 converters* and a pair of KENRAD Staggered Plate 6SN7GT. You can get the converters directly from WOO ($40 each + shipping).


 
  
 Do those cheap Hong Kong adapter work the same?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1piece-6SN7GT-B65-CV181-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-converter-adapter-/191628468278?hash=item2c9df26036:g:OF4AAOSwiLdV95iS
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6SN7-6SL7-to-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-6N11-tube-adapter-socket-converter-one-piece-/151638848168?hash=item234e6132a8:g:C5UAAOxycERRk0g9


----------



## MIKELAP

thenewguy007 said:


> picklgreen said:
> 
> 
> > Well if he wants truly serious bass than* he needs to buy 6SN7 to 6922 converters* and a pair of KENRAD Staggered Plate 6SN7GT. You can get the converters directly from WOO ($40 each + shipping).
> ...


 
 These 6sn7 to 6922 adapter are more expensive but better parts are used and should last longer these are $15.00 each i might add that shipping usually takes a month im in Canada              http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-CMC-ceramic-sock-/191226140400?hash=item2c85f756f0:g:cpkAAOSwv0tVDTBl


----------



## Shaffer

deleted, wrong product


----------



## ru4music

stant said:


> All 3 tubes on the WA2 affect the sound. The power tubes seem to have the most effect. I don't know what Woo is shipping these days; but the GE 6080s that I got were pretty awful. Most everything mentioned is going to be a significant upgrade.
> 
> The *most bass heavy power tube that I've heard were Bendix 6080s with graphite plates*. I really didn't care for them and they are a bit scarce; but some people think highly of them. Mine are labeled Chatham; but the graphite plates are unmistakable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 X2


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> Hey, just received the new Reflektors you suggested. Burn-in starts today! I will post my impressions, but I am looking forward to these. Thanks for the suggestion.


 

 Fire'm up already!


----------



## ru4music

picklgreen said:


> Silly rabbit! 6SN7GT are not rectifiers! They are dual triodes! They would replace the 6922/E88CC tubes. And the Tung-Sol 5998 are garbage! I own those, the GEC 6080 & 6AS7G and the WE 421A. The Tung-Sol are the worst of the bunch! The WE 421A are the best hands down. Best bass, best soundstage, best detail, etc etc. *The 6n23p are russian crap. They are basically their version of the 69822. A very poor imitation actually. I would never use that garbage in my amp. Russians make JUNK! Just today one of their jetliners fell from the sky.* Enough said. It probably had a few of those tubes running its flight computers LOL!


 
  
 Oh, the irony, these Russian tubes have you seeing "RED".  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (cheers comrade!)


----------



## Thenewguy007

picklgreen said:


> Well if he wants truly serious bass than he needs to buy 6SN7 to 6922 converters and a pair of KENRAD Staggered Plate 6SN7GT. You can get the converters directly from WOO ($40 each + shipping).


 

 Well I ordered the adapter from ebay

 Would any banded 6SN7GT do or does it specifically have to be Kenrad ones & Staggered Plate ones at that?
 Would I get a noticeable dropped off from other branded 6SN7GT tubes?


----------



## Thenewguy007

FYI the stock tubes I got with the WA2 were:
  

2x RCA  United  6080WA
2x International C Servicemaster 6922 E88CC
2x Elekronska Industrija Nis EZ80
  
  
 I plan on buying some Tung-Sol 5998 to replace the RCA power tubes, until I can save enough to get the Western Electric variations. I also bought the adapter to use other tubes, but it's probably going to take a month to arrive from China. So 5998 for now. Looks like it's the best of the bunch without going over $300.
 But what about the other 2 tubes, EZ80 & E88CC (which one is the rectifier)? What's good to replace them with or are they fine as they are?
  
  
 I'm looking to *either *get a huge improvement in soundstage or a huge improvement in bass/impact.
 Getting a noticeable wow factor in either is what I want.
  
 Getting a huge improvement in both would be a bonus, but from my time in head-fi, I know that is just a dream.


----------



## thecrow

thenewguy007 said:


> FYI the stock tubes I got with the WA2 were:
> 
> 
> 2x RCA  United  6080WA
> ...


Google and have a look at "joes tube lore". That worked for me. Also Brent Jesse website has great info. I bought some 6922 pq Amperex and I'm enjoying good detail on those and a sound on the warmer side. I believe bugle boys are warmer but less detail I've read


----------



## Thenewguy007

thecrow said:


> Google and have a look at "joes tube lore". That worked for me. Also Brent Jesse website has great info. I bought some 6922 pq Amperex and I'm enjoying good detail on those and a sound on the warmer side. I believe bugle boys are warmer but less detail I've read


 
  
 Sure enough, the only tube Joe doesn't review is the 5998's.


----------



## thecrow

thenewguy007 said:


> Sure enough, the only tube Joe doesn't review is the 5998's.


I know  That's what this place is for I guess. I looking for comparisons between the gec6as7g and the others.


----------



## MIKELAP

heatfan12 said:


> LOL jhl........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 About your TungSol 6BK7B do you need an adapter for those tubes to use as drivers in a WA2


----------



## MIKELAP

mikelap said:


> heatfan12 said:
> 
> 
> > LOL jhl........
> ...


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> About your TungSol 6BK7B do you need an adapter for those tubes to use as drivers in a WA2


 

   X2 - I just ordered some 6SN7 to 6922 adapters;  time for a change-up!  Come 'on @HeatFan12 , give us your best recommendations!


----------



## picklgreen

You mean 6922 to 6SN7 adapters? What headphones are you using and what type of sound are you after?


----------



## MIKELAP

About the 6BK7B tube it is same pinout as 6DJ8 tubes so no adapters needed in WA2 dont know how they sound they are really cheap, about $5.00 each in general  .


----------



## picklgreen

Just because they are the same pinout DOES NOT MEAN they are meant to be used in the WA2! These tubes specifically are used in FM tuner stages (they are RF tubes). They are not meant for audio driver stage tubes! You really think a $5 in a $1200 amp is going to sound that good?


----------



## ru4music

picklgreen said:


> You mean 6922 to 6SN7 adapters? What headphones are you using and what type of sound are you after?


 

 No, 6SN7 to 6922 (6sn7 tube to a 9 pin 6922 socket)!
  
 HD800/ Beyer T-1/ HD650; sound wise: good extension top to bottom, great sound stage and imaging, transparent etc. (i.e. I want it all.)


----------



## ru4music

picklgreen said:


> Just because they are the same pinout DOES NOT MEAN they are meant to be used in the WA2! These tubes specifically are used in FM tuner stages (they are RF tubes). They are not meant for audio driver stage tubes! *You really think a $5 in a $1200 amp is going to sound that good?*


 
 Yes it can, sometimes better!
  
 This is not always good advise regarding tubes!  For example, the 6as7G and 5998 types where primarily designed as voltage regulation tubes as opposed to audio amplifier tubes etc.
  
 The 6bk7b comes recommended for the WA2 from a fellow head-fi'er and @MIKELAP is just trying to figure out if it's a direct fit.


----------



## maheeinfy

New WA2 owner here.
  
 I noticed that headphone jack on my unit looks different that on the wooaudio website. Can someone confirm if this has changed?
  
 From Wooaudio

  
  
 My unit


----------



## MIKELAP

maheeinfy said:


> New WA2 owner here.
> 
> I noticed that headphone jack on my unit looks different that on the wooaudio website. Can someone confirm if this has changed?
> 
> ...


 
 is your unit new mine is a 2013 model its like first picture


----------



## maheeinfy

mikelap said:


> is your unit new mine is a 2013 model its like first picture


 
 I bought it new from wooaudio last week.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

ru4music said:


> Yes it can, sometimes better!
> 
> This is not always good advise regarding tubes!  For example, the 6as7G and 5998 types where primarily designed as voltage regulation tubes as opposed to audio amplifier tubes etc.
> 
> The 6bk7b comes recommended for the WA2 from a fellow head-fi'er and @MIKELAP is just trying to figure out if it's a direct fit.


 

 While I agree that there there's no direct correlation between price & performance of a NOS tube in a given setup (*), I would caution in regards to plugging in some untested tube, there's more to compatibility than just the pinout.
  
 As a reminder, Woo's official compatibility list is HERE, for any unlisted tube (and the 6BK7B isn't) I would at least check in with Woo first... unless you're knowledgeable enough and you have access to the full spec sheet. Even if at first it doesn't seem to have an immediate negative effect, it may put a strain on components that will affect longevity.
  
 (*) unless it's something like a 421A, then the tears of your depleted wallet simply have to make it sound the sweetest ^_^;


----------



## thecrow

maheeinfy said:


> I bought it new from wooaudio last week.


I bought this from local dealer two months ago. They ordered it from woo.


----------



## zeroduke

My unit is 2015 and it's like yours.


----------



## maheeinfy

Hmm. Not liking that I received something other than what's shown on their website. 
Wonder what the reason for changing the Jack. 
Also my WA2 is producing hiss on my T1. Starting to feel bad about this purchase


----------



## thecrow

maheeinfy said:


> Hmm. Not liking that I received something other than what's shown on their website.
> Wonder what the reason for changing the Jack.
> Also my WA2 is producing hiss on my T1. Starting to feel bad about this purchase


The photos are old on their site. You'll notice there's a switch on the back of your amp to select preamp or amp. That's not in the pics


----------



## MIKELAP

thegrumpyoldman said:


> ru4music said:
> 
> 
> > Yes it can, sometimes better!
> ...


 
 According to Woo 6BK7 tubes are plug &play in WA2 and need adapters in WA6


----------



## picklgreen

*maheeinfy, *Woo audio has excellent customer service. If you have concerns or problems with your amp just email or call him! He will put you at ease trust me. They are a small mom & pop type operation and care a great deal for their customers and about their customers. As to the difference of the headphone jack, I wouldn't worry about it. Remember they don't pump out thousands and thousands of these on an assembly line like any brand you'll find at Best Buy. They are hand made one by one, and parts are ordered in small quantities. It is possible that supply dictated a change in a type of part.
  
 And rest assured, you own one of the best sounding and well built headphone amps on the planet! I have owned literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear in my lifetime and my Woo Audio is one of my absolute favorite! Math it with good NOS tubes and proper headphones and you'll never look back. The hiss you hear is probably from the tubes you are using. If you want help choosing better tubes give us a price range and what tubes you currently use and recommendations can be made. Also email Woo and he can offer help also. A faulty amp usually wouldn't produce any hiss. It would be more of a hum if a bad transformer or loss of sound in one or both channels.
  
 Woo can be reached at (+1 872 222 9667) or info@wooaudio.com.


----------



## maheeinfy

picklgreen said:


> *maheeinfy, *Woo audio has excellent customer service. If you have concerns or problems with your amp just email or call him! He will put you at ease trust me. They are a small mom & pop type operation and care a great deal for their customers and about their customers. As to the difference of the headphone jack, I wouldn't worry about it. Remember they don't pump out thousands and thousands of these on an assembly line like any brand you'll find at Best Buy. They are hand made one by one, and parts are ordered in small quantities. It is possible that supply dictated a change in a type of part.
> 
> And rest assured, you own one of the best sounding and well built headphone amps on the planet! I have owned literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear in my lifetime and my Woo Audio is one of my absolute favorite! Math it with good NOS tubes and proper headphones and you'll never look back. The hiss you hear is probably from the tubes you are using. If you want help choosing better tubes give us a price range and what tubes you currently use and recommendations can be made. Also email Woo and he can offer help also. A faulty amp usually wouldn't produce any hiss. It would be more of a hum if a bad transformer or loss of sound in one or both channels.
> 
> Woo can be reached at (+1 872 222 9667) or info@wooaudio.com.


 
 Thanks. I also think that its one of the tube that is causing this hiss. I have spoken to Mike at WA and was told to put some hours on the tubes, as they need break in to perform their best. So i am currently using the amp as it is. If the hiss doesn't go away, i will have to ship them to WA for testing/replacement.
  
 I also noticed that amp starts producing hum into headphones when volume dial is near 11' clock and the hum only becomes louder when i go past that position on volume. Is it supposed to happen on WA2?


----------



## StanT

No hum or hiss with mine at any volume that I can stand.
  
 In my experience, tube problems with the WA2 are generally on a single channel. I've always been able to isolate a tube issue by swapping tubes left to right, one pair at a time.
  
 I did find my WA2 or the cables running to it, to be sensitive to EMF. Straightening out my cable mess, using shorter cables, and at least trying to keep my PC and audio cables separated fixed that.


----------



## maheeinfy

stant said:


> No hum or hiss with mine at any volume that I can stand.
> 
> In my experience, tube problems with the WA2 are generally on a single channel. I've always been able to isolate a tube issue by swapping tubes left to right, one pair at a time.
> 
> I did find my WA2 or the cables running to it, to be sensitive to EMF. Straightening out my cable mess, using shorter cables, and at least trying to keep my PC and audio cables separated fixed that.


 
 Its right in my case as well. Tube hiss is only on one channel. One of the 6080 tubes that came with the amp is faulty i think. When i switch those tubes from left to right, hiss moves from left to right.
  
 I am hearing the hum from the amp even when no cables are connected, except the power cord. There are no devices nearby that could cause interference.
  
 I am starting to think, my unit is faulty


----------



## picklgreen

Sounds like a bad amp (caps or transformer can cause hum). Should never have any hum in any audio gear period regardless of brand make or model! Hiss is from your tubes. I had a bad CCA driver tube that was giving me hiss once.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

maheeinfy said:


> Hmm. Not liking that I received something other than what's shown on their website.
> Wonder what the reason for changing the Jack.
> Also my WA2 is producing hiss on my T1. Starting to feel bad about this purchase



  
 WA2 have been in production since 2005. We continuously update parts used in our products to improve on quality, reliability, performance, and cosmetics. The headphones jack on original WA2 looks kind of DYI project by today's standards, so we've updated the front panel and choose to use a flush mounted headphones jack that's also higher quality/reliability. 
  
 Quote:



maheeinfy said:


> Its right in my case as well. Tube hiss is only on one channel. One of the 6080 tubes that came with the amp is faulty i think. When i switch those tubes from left to right, hiss moves from left to right.
> 
> I am hearing the hum from the amp even when no cables are connected, except the power cord. There are no devices nearby that could cause interference.
> 
> I am starting to think, my unit is faulty


 
  
 Is the hum coming from the amp itself or through the headphones? If through the headphones, you may have a ground-loop issue in the system. There can be a slight hum on the amplifier if you place your ears in close proixmity to the amp, but it shoud not be audible at normal listening distance.


----------



## jhljhl

hifiguy528 said:


> Is the hum coming from the amp itself or through the headphones? If through the headphones, you may have a ground-loop issue in the system. There can be a slight hum on the amplifier if you place your ears in close proixmity to the amp, but it shoud not be audible at normal listening distance.


 

 Could also be outlet?  Once had same issue I switched outlets or rather a different power strip and problem went away.


----------



## Thenewguy007

mikelap said:


> According to Woo 6BK7 tubes are plug &play in WA2 and need adapters in WA6


 
  
 Really?
 this link
 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html
  
 Doesn't show anything for 6BK7.
 Would like to know if they are a good alternative to the reflektors or if anyone even tried to use them.


----------



## MIKELAP

thenewguy007 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > According to Woo 6BK7 tubes are plug &play in WA2 and need adapters in WA6
> ...


 
 Tube is not on the list but i asked Woo Audio if it was compatible and this is there response   Also on page 36 post #529   last paragraph a comment on the 6BK7 and the 75'  Reflektor 's


----------



## ru4music

thenewguy007 said:


> Really?
> this link
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html
> 
> ...


 

 I have used the RCA and Tung Sol (early 60s) 6BK7B in my WA2 with the TS 5998/ RCA 6AS7G.  They are descent (good) sounding tubes with the RCA being a little more recessed and organic and the Tung Sol having more detail and dynamics.  I would much recommend the TS over the RCA and would be happy to run them in my WA2 if no other driver tubes were available.
  
 However, my `74 and `75 SWGP Silver Reflektors still outperform them in every category and are what I run currently.  The 6BK7s are inexpensive (~ $5 to $10 per tube) and direct plug and play in the WA2, so you may want to pick up a set to have in your inventory.


----------



## kggibbs

Running stock tubes on WA2 now and looking to upgrade, but not ready to pay big bucks for something like TS5998 yet.
  
 Budget is < 100$. 
  
 Looking for suggestions for
 * A pair of power tubes that make noticeable difference
 or
 * Combo of power/driver/rectifier that make noticeable difference.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## thecrow

kggibbs said:


> Running stock tubes on WA2 now and looking to upgrade, but not ready to pay big bucks for something like TS5998 yet.
> 
> Budget is < 100$.
> 
> ...


I believe on a budget no need to change rectifier. 

With power tubes I've just bought a pair of mullards 6080s, haven't arrived yet, that on the 6as7g thread others comment on them being really good tubes on a warmer side. (I love the ge 6as7g tubes but they are very expensive) 

Badas who likes warmer sounds also likes the GE 6as7ga tubes which are even cheaper and in his eyes close to the mullards. 

With driver tubes perhaps look at "joes tube lore". Just google it. And look at the comments on the 6dj8 tubes. You might pick up something suitable on eBay using that guide. 

I personally am a fan of the amperex 6922 tubes (the pq Amperex personally). Lively well balanced. Pretty much neutral tubes with good extension and good level of detail. I would leave the rectifier and look at these 6922 tubes. Or the Amperex bugle boys perhaps if want something more laid back.


----------



## kggibbs

thecrow said:


> I believe on a budget no need to change rectifier.
> 
> With power tubes I've just bought a pair of mullards 6080s, haven't arrived yet, that on the 6as7g thread others comment on them being really good tubes on a warmer side. (I love the ge 6as7g tubes but they are very expensive)
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot for the suggestions. It helps! 
  
 I have some follow up questions if you dont mind..
 It seems RCA 6AS7GA is the more available variant of this tube. Is GE 6AS7GA any better than that? I also read that 6AS7GA is generally prone to microphonics..would that make 6080(=industrial 6as7g) a better choice?
  
 Is driver tube also called pre-amp tube?


----------



## thecrow

kggibbs said:


> Thanks a lot for the suggestions. It helps!
> 
> I have some follow up questions if you dont mind..
> It seems RCA 6AS7GA is the more available variant of this tube. Is GE 6AS7GA any better than that? I also read that 6AS7GA is generally prone to microphonics..would that make 6080(=industrial 6as7g) a better choice?
> ...


Pre amp = driver

Not sure about which are more prone to be microphonic tubes - I do t have the experience to say

I guess if you buy from reputable sources or on eBay with good long histories that are happy to accept returns you should be ok


----------



## ru4music

kggibbs said:


> Running stock tubes on WA2 now and looking to upgrade, but not ready to pay big bucks for something like TS5998 yet.
> 
> Budget is < 100$.
> 
> ...


 

 It would help us with your recommendations if you could give us more information (i.e. where are you coming from).  What are your: stock tubes, your headphones, genres of music, and source components?  Best recommendations at your price point will depend on this!


----------



## kggibbs

ru4music said:


> It would help us with your recommendations if you could give us more information (i.e. where are you coming from).  What are your: stock tubes, your headphones, genres of music, and source components?  Best recommendations at your price point will depend on this!


 
 Thank you.
  
 I am looking for good matching tube/s for WA2 with T1 Gen1. Sound preference is warm/bodied/syrupy..stuff like that
  
 Stock tubes are GE 6080WC, Philips 6922, Electro harmonics 6CA4
  
 Musical preferences are all over the place, but i tend to listen to vocal tracks more.


----------



## maheeinfy

Is Shuguang 6N13P ok to use on WA2?


----------



## MIKELAP

maheeinfy said:


> Is Shuguang 6N13P ok to use on WA2?


 
 According to this it is equivalent to  6AS7  it as  2.5A other Chinese tube has 2.4A  current                                                                                                                      http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Shuguang-Chinese-6N13P-T-6N13P-6H13C-6AS7G-Vacuum-Tube-2PCS-/181708134813?hash=item2a4ea6199d:g:L-8AAOSw7aBVH0mi


----------



## thecrow

The woo wa2 output transformerless amp using the mullards 6080 playing 

(with my hd800)
Is absolutely fantastic - with a bit of David Bowie in tha back, of course

"You're going to reap just what you sow"


----------



## MIKELAP

thecrow said:


> The woo wa2 output transformerless amp using the mullards 6080 playing
> 
> (with my hd800)
> Is absolutely fantastic - with a bit of David Bowie in tha back, of course
> ...


 
 i have several brands of 6080 Chathams in particular and im also using Senns hd800 what do you find special about the Mullards compared to other 6080 you might have and hopefully Chayhams here's a picture of mine


----------



## thecrow

mikelap said:


> i have several brands of 6080 Chathams in particular and im also using Senns hd800 what do you find special about the Mullards compared to other 6080 you might have and hopefully Chayhams here's a picture of mine


I have a pair of Bendix 6080wb tubes coming. The only power tubes I have are TS 5998 and gec6as7g so I can't compare to other 6080 tubes. 

I have found the mullards to be what I had preconceived as a tube sound. This is a preconceived idea and have not listened to any other tube amps for a decent period of time. 

Essentially there's a nice warmth to these with great detail and no bloatiness or mudiness. I 'm always worried about forgiving amps/tubes losing detail.

They have a little less detail than the ts 5998s. And then the Gec tubes are another story. 

Even an album called "rhythm country and blues", an album with various r&d and country stars which is very well produced sounded really good with the mullards.

This tube will lack when wanting detail to be prominent in my listening but then I have the Gec 6as7g and the ts5988s are right in the middle


----------



## thecrow

after listening to the mullards for a few night, i then received the slotted graphite bendix 6080wb tubes. i haven't yet gone back to the mullards to confirm this but my first impression of the bendix (relative to the mullards) is there was more grunt and power to them. punchy (in a solid manner) , weighty and warm.
  
  
  
 in traditional head-fi member style, over the last few months i've continuously gone backwards and forwards about buying a pair of he400i, he560 or lcd 2, when at a good price, but having only the wa2 and not sure how the last two would go with the OTL wa2 i have not pulled the trigger
  
 after enjoying listening to the mullards, bendix and today the ts 5998 (shades of deep purple on at the moment), i'm currently in that head space of i have everything i need right here (for my home listening) with my wa2 and hd800's. a great place to be - total contentment and joy. almost old school hi-fi - what more could i want???!!!??
  
 let's see how long this will last..........
  
  
 before the internet surely there was none of this extra temptation of more gear. but also not all this info on gear and tubes unless one trawled through hifi magazines


----------



## JazzVinyl

thecrow said:


> before the internet surely there was none of this extra temptation of more gear. but also not all this info on gear and tubes unless one trawled through hifi magazines




Ha! 

Yes, we stumbled about, clueless, deft in urban legend, in the dark ages, before the internet


----------



## thecrow

jazzvinyl said:


> Ha!
> 
> Yes, *we stumbled about, clueless, deft in urban legend, in the dark ages*, before the internet



That sounds like something out of Jim morrison's american prayer


----------



## Franatic

I haven't posted here in a while, but I have been busy tube rolling. I want to thank all the posters for providing me much background info as I rolled tubes in and out, especially RU4music, MikeLap, and Heatfan12. I love my WA2 and I use it as both a headphone amp and a preamp for my speakers system. This is a very good amp and with the right tubes it is a fantastic amp. So I'll leave some quick impressions on my top 5 of each type of tube.
  
 Power tubes:
 1) Western Electric 421A- powerful, airy and dynamic. Huge sounstage with a 3D quality. Superb details. Intoxicated from the first listen, whether from my T1s or my speakers.
 2) GEC 6AS7G - Slightly warm, very musical, refined details. Has both rich tone and great speed with  deep articulate bass. Very apparent why this is a favorite of many
 3a) Tung Sol 5998- very detailed and powerful. Much like the 421A but without the air and 3D imaging that makes the 421A so special.
 3b) GEC 6080 - the GEC 6AS7Gs more affordable little brother, has 90% of his quality at half the price.
 3c) Sylvania 7236- A very underated all around performer.
  
 Preamp/Driver tubes: (6SN7s & ECC32 w/adapter)
 1) Mullard ECC32 brown bass - Hands down best driver tube I tried. Rich lush tones, refined details, great focus, speed, bass, almost any desirable quality, it has. It almost plays like an instrument itself. Makes the whole system euphonious. ))
 2) Tung Sol VT-231A - Very dynamic, very fast. spectacularly detailed. Paired very well with the GEC 6AS7G in my system.
 3) 6N23P '74 Reflektor Silver shield single wire getter post - What a superb little tube. Rich, dynamic, fast with great focus and holographic imagery.
 4) Sylvania 6SN7GT - most slam and best bottom end of any tube tried.....and yet it still maintains good balance and performance in mids and upper ranges.
 5) Siemens CCA - large soundstage and 3D holographic imaging. Perhaps the greatest focus of all tubes with exquisite micro-details but lacks a bit of warmth
  
 Rectifier tubes:
 1) Marconi U709 - Very, very rare and by far the best rectfier tube. It's kind of like giving the amp a power supply upgrade. Lower noise floor, greater details and clarity, deeper bass. Everything plays with more flourish. I did not expect this much improvement from a rectifier tube.
*******not much to say other than a good rectifier tube makes your driver and power tubes better. I will rank the rest
2) Brimar EZ81
3) Telefunken EZ80
4) Mullard EZ81
5) RFT EZ80
  
Since 2 of my top tubes are made in England, my love of British valves is apparent. I have to thank Kef at ValveTubes for supplying me with the Mullard ECC32s and the Marconi U709s. It is nice to form a relationship with a good tube guy and I can rely on Kef to provide me the best. I love my WA2 and with the WE421A, the Mullard Ecc32s and the Marconi U709s, this amp sounds so good it blows my mind and brings a smile to my face every time I listen.
  
Roll on my friends.......and rock too!


----------



## Krutsch

franatic said:


> ...
> 
> Power tubes:
> 1) Western Electric 421A- powerful, airy and dynamic. Huge sounstage with a 3D quality. Superb details. Intoxicated from the first listen, whether from my T1s or my speakers.
> ...


 
  
 Wow... Nice write-up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have all of the above Power tubes and with my WA3, you are dead-on with your ranking and description. I really do need to upgrade to a WA2.
  
 However, I encourage you to consider adding one more: the Tung-Sol 6520 (which I would rate in the 3 category, along with the others ... maybe even 3a). A fantastic and underrated tube.
  
 With the driver tubes (again, with a WA3), you should check out the Telefunken E188CC (Ulm '60s, if you can find them). I have basically stopped rolling driver tubes since I switched back to these.


----------



## Franatic

krutsch said:


> Wow... Nice write-up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, Krutsch
  
 The preamp output is what sold me on the WA2. Really makes it a great investment.
  
 I have the TS 6520 and perhaps it could join the 3 category. It is a 'tweener, like as if the GEC6080 and the TS5998 had a baby. Now if its parents were a 421A and a GEC 6AS7G, it could rise to the top of the list.
  
 I have Telefunken E88CC and an Amperex 6922 PQ white label and they rank just behind the Siemens CCA. If I had an elite pair of Tele E188ccs, they might make the list.


----------



## jhljhl

Cary Audio HH-1 amp I recently acquired has a somewhat warm sound signature like a WA2.  Slightly narrower sound stage but has some more depth about on par imaging but deeper and tighter bass.  However it hasn't quite the transparency as with the gec 6sa7 can bring in the WA2 even with the pinch waist 6922 I've installed in the HH-1 but it is close.  Anyway, I mention this here as the both use 6922 tubes.  Can anyone compare the WA2 to the Lyr2 or Moljnir2 or other 6922 amps like maybe decware CSP3?


----------



## picklgreen

For ****s & giggles I thought id try my sennheiser ie800 in my WA2 and IMGAwd! It sounds amazing!


----------



## thecrow

T





picklgreen said:


> For ****s & giggles I thought id try my sennheiser ie800 in my WA2 and IMGAwd! It sounds amazing!


lol

That's great when you find something like that.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

picklgreen said:


> For ****s & giggles I thought id try my sennheiser ie800 in my WA2 and IMGAwd! It sounds amazing!


----------



## martybu141

Has anyone tried the Genalex gold lions yet? I just bought a WA2 for Christmas and they were my first upgrade from the stock tubes. I am also using Tung Sol 5998s and a new set of Ei EZ80s. All made a significant upgrade but I can tell the 6922s are the ones that really change the sound signature. I was hoping someone might be able to tell me how they compare to more popular options like maybe the Siemens or amperex tubes.


----------



## Flisker

franatic said:


> Preamp/Driver tubes: (6SN7s & ECC32 w/adapter)
> 1) Mullard ECC32 brown bass - Hands down best driver tube I tried. Rich lush tones, refined details, great focus, speed, bass, almost any desirable quality, it has. It almost plays like an instrument itself. Makes the whole system euphonious. ))
> 2) Tung Sol VT-231A - Very dynamic, very fast. spectacularly detailed. Paired very well with the GEC 6AS7G in my system.
> 3) 6N23P '74 Reflektor Silver shield single wire getter post - What a superb little tube. Rich, dynamic, fast with great focus and holographic imagery.
> ...


 
  
 Hey Franatic,
  
 Mullard ECC32, are u talking about these babies : http://www.ebay.com/itm/mullard-CV181-ecc32-very-slightly-used-ONE-PAIR-/322104824935?hash=item4afef19467:g:naMAAOSwy5ZXCzl~ ?

 Also what adapter would I need to use these in WA2 ?
  
 Is it this one : http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-6SN7-Replace-12AU7-Tube-Amplifier-Socket-Adapter-12-6V-Suzier-A4-/281951474478?hash=item41a59e132e:g:2hoAAOSwWBJXBGVs ?


----------



## Franatic

flisker said:


> Hey Franatic,
> 
> Mullard ECC32, are u talking about these babies : http://www.ebay.com/itm/mullard-CV181-ecc32-very-slightly-used-ONE-PAIR-/322104824935?hash=item4afef19467:g:naMAAOSwy5ZXCzl~ ?
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Flisker,
 Those are the ones. The price is high, but to get a top pair you will pay. I got mine from ValveTubes. You can find them here:
 https://valvetubes.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=ecc32
 Ask Kef for a quote, you can be sure he will give you a great pair.
  
 That adapter is not correct. Try this one:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-CMC-ceramic-sock-/191226140400?hash=item2c85f756f0:g:hNwAAOSw6oBXEfjG
 You can find cheaper ones but if you are going to spend for those tubes you want a good adapter. That is the one I use. He will combine shipping on 2.
  
 Hands down the best driver tube. You won't regret spending the money once you hear them.


----------



## Flisker

franatic said:


> Hi Flisker,
> Those are the ones. The price is high, but to get a top pair you will pay. I got mine from ValveTubes. You can find them here:
> https://valvetubes.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=ecc32
> Ask Kef for a quote, you can be sure he will give you a great pair.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks a lot for fast reply, info and links 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sent mail about the price on valvetubes.com.
 I have WA2 on the way, so I'll first have some time with it and than maybe go for these


----------



## Gexs

I just bought my first tube amp (wa2) 2 weeks ago. I am still noob about tube rolling. I read on this thread that tung sol 5998 is a great tubes for wa2. My question is if tung sol 5998 is different to tung sol jan 5998 in terms of sound quality. Thanks


----------



## ru4music

gexs said:


> I just bought my first tube amp (wa2) 2 weeks ago. I am still noob about tube rolling. I read on this thread that tung sol 5998 is a great tubes for wa2. *My question is if tung sol 5998 is different to tung sol jan 5998 in terms of sound quality.* Thanks


 
 No difference in SQ.  Just make sure you get the ST (shoulder) glass with the domino plates 5998 (not 5998A etc.)  You may find these labeled as Tung Sol or Chatham etc. Also you can look for the 2399 tube with the same characteristics, this is the same tube as the TS 5998 before Tung Sol bought out Chatham.
  
 Welcome to the club, enjoy!
  
 BTW, *JAN* is the *J*oint *A*rmy *N*avy (military designation) for the same tube.


----------



## Gexs

ru4music said:


> No difference in SQ.  Just make sure you get the ST (shoulder) glass with the domino plates 5998 (not 5998A etc.)  You may find these labeled as Tung Sol or Chatham etc. Also you can look for the 2399 tube with the same characteristics, this is the same tube as the TS 5998 before Tung Sol bought out Chatham.
> 
> Welcome to the club, enjoy!
> 
> BTW, *JAN* is the *J*oint *A*rmy *N*avy (military designation) for the same tube.




Thank you for you reply.


----------



## ru4music

gexs said:


> Thank you for you reply.


 

 No problem!  Also, if you only have the stock WA2 rectifier tubes, I would highly recommend getting a set of the Brimar EZ80 tubes:
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311548894532
  
 The Brimar is what I run exclusively in my WA2.  They sound fantastic, but are getting hard to source, and Langrex in the UK is a very reputable company!
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Flisker

ru4music said:


> No problem!  Also, if you only have the stock WA2 rectifier tubes, I would highly recommend getting a set of the Brimar EZ80 tubes:
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311548894532
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey ru4music,
  
   I got Tesla EZ81's , do you think there are some other worth looking into ? Do the rectifier tubes make a noticeable difference ?


----------



## Flisker

jhljhl said:


> Cary Audio HH-1 amp I recently acquired has a somewhat warm sound signature like a WA2.  Slightly narrower sound stage but has some more depth about on par imaging but deeper and tighter bass.  However it hasn't quite the transparency as with the gec 6sa7 can bring in the WA2 even with the pinch waist 6922 I've installed in the HH-1 but it is close.  Anyway, I mention this here as the both use 6922 tubes.  Can anyone compare the WA2 to the Lyr2 or Moljnir2 or other 6922 amps like maybe decware CSP3?


 
  
 I've had Lyr & Lyr 2 for a long time and what I can say is that WA2 is different universe, it's so much better than Lyr 2 for HD650 & HD800 S. It's a massive upgrade to my ears.
  


 But Lyr 2 is also amazing amp, no doubt about it !


----------



## ru4music

flisker said:


> Hey ru4music,
> 
> I got Tesla EZ81's , do you think there are some other worth looking into ? Do the rectifier tubes make a noticeable difference?


 
 They do make a difference, but if you have the earlier Tesla EZ tubes (year '50 - early '65) then you should be OK.  Tesla, as well as other brands, sold-out in the late '60'sand '70's so the SQ went down.  The Brimar EZ80  (IMHO) that I listed are about as good as it gets, and the exchange rate is the lowest it has been in a long while with BREXIT!
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## Flisker

ru4music said:


> They do make a difference, but if you have the earlier Tesla EZ tubes (year '50 - early '65) then you should be OK.  Tesla, as well as other brands, sold-out in the late '60'sand '70's so the SQ went down.  The Brimar EZ80  (IMHO) that I listed are about as good as it gets, and the exchange rate is the lowest it has been in a long while with BREXIT!
> 
> Enjoy!


 
  
 Ok, thanks. I will focus on power tubes than


----------



## billerb1

Telefunken E188CC's arrived today from Italy.  They look like 1970 Ulm's.
 The same delicate beauty I remember from the Tele E88CC's I had a few years ago but more refined in tone and
 soundstage.  And the bass !!!  I don't remember that in the E88's.
 Very, very happy with the first impressions.
  
  
  
 EDIT:  (4 hours later)  Uh oh. These are going to come between me and my pinched waists.  I love these things !!
 They deliver the music in a hypnotically pure way.  The music space is intimate and engaging as hell.  They hold together great when you push the volume too.  The louder they got for me the more real the music became.  Detailed but with balls...and a rock solid bottom end.  Cymbal nuance was exquisitely there for the taking and that's a big thing for me.
 And the guitar solos S O A R !!!!!  God, these are good.
  
 *Also a shout-out to Franatic for his recommendation for the GEC U709 rectifiers.  Just ordered.  Can't wait to hear them with my GEC 6AS7G's and the above-mentioned Telefunken E188CC's !!!


----------



## ru4music

billerb1 said:


> Telefunken E188CC's arrived today from Italy.  They look like 1970 Ulm's.
> The same delicate beauty I remember from the Tele E88CC's I had a few years ago but more refined in tone and
> soundstage.  And the bass !!!  I don't remember that in the E88's.
> Very, very happy with the first impressions.
> ...


 

 Good info, glad you like'em.  If you don't mind what did you pay for the Tele e188cc and GEC U709s?  Also, who was you source?  Feel free to PM me if you prefer to keep it on the down-low.


----------



## picklgreen

Id be interested in knowing what he paid as well. Best price I can find is $620 for a NOS pair. This is Telefunken CCA kind of money. Currently I use Siemens CCA (A-frame, grey plate 1960's) with Western Electric 421A. I have all the rest of the highly rated output tubes (GEC 6080 & 6AS7G, Tung Sol, etc) and the WE are by far my favorite. However I have only ever tried the CCA in the driver tubes (the stock chinese or whatever they were were used for target practise and met my little friend) and would be interested in trying something different!


----------



## Thenewguy007

ru4music said:


> Good info, glad you like'em.  If you don't mind what did you pay for the Tele e188cc and GEC U709s?  Also, who was you source?  Feel free to PM me if you prefer to keep it on the down-low.


 
  
 I'd like to know too, as well as where you got the pinched waist tube? Been searching for a pair for a while now.


----------



## billerb1

Got the Telefunken E188CC's from an Italian seller for $275, which after hearing them, i consider a steal.  I've seen them go for comparable prices on ebay from time to time.  They are often listed on ebay for ridiculous prices but I don't see many 'solds' for those crazy $500-$600 prices for a pair.


Got the GEC U709's from a Valve Tubes in England...very rare.  Price can be up to $200 a piece.


I have 3 pair of pinched waist Holland tubes and have found them all on ebay.  Just have to be patient and vigilant.  And lucky lol.


----------



## Krutsch

billerb1 said:


> Telefunken E188CC's arrived today from Italy.
> ...
> 
> EDIT:  (4 hours later)  Uh oh. These are going to come between me and my pinched waists.  I love these things !!


 
  
 Glad you like 'em. My favorite driver tubes, by far, in the 6DJ8, et al., category.


----------



## billerb1

These Tele E188CC's are killing me.  Each listening session is now a highly anticipated event.  Their synergy with my other tubes (especially a newer pair of GEC 6AS7G's) and my other gear is unlike anything I've heard up to this point.  Very organic and seductively real.  Hell I don't even know what organic means but trust me on that one.  The music truly breathes and pulsates...and is presented so beautifully and effortlessly.  That's the biggest difference between these and the Tele E88CC's I had and sold a couple years ago.  Those E88's had the same signature "pure" Tele sound but they always lacked impact to me.  They never quite got there.  These do.  Drums and all percussion are a special treat...all the subtleties, depth and bottoms can not only be heard but also physically felt.  I  bought these E188's with the hope they'd be my special jazz and acoustic tubes...because that's how I'd pegged the Tele E88's...but these have worked perfectly with anything I've thrown at them.  These are my go-to's for the foreseeable future.  I'm just not sure if it's love or lust.  Just have to see.  You know the way it is with tubes.  But this feels like all new territory to me.


----------



## ru4music

billerb1 said:


> *These Tele E188CC's are killing me.* ... *Hell I don't even know what organic means *but trust me on that one.


 
 Stop it, your killing us because we don't have a pair! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well, I think you know now what organic means (i.e. engaging true to life natural sound which seems to melt the entire system away leaving only the music; not processed or synthetic in origin, where the emotion of the music carries through over the top of the PRAT and timbre etc.)
  
 Hmm...  wonder how the U709s are going to contribute!


----------



## billerb1

They ship today from England. Can't imagine my modest little system sounding much better but I'll let you know after they arrive.


----------



## Thenewguy007

How did the GEC U709 change the sound? A lot of people say they don't really hear too much of a difference rolling rectifier tubes, but I haven't seen anyone actually roll high end ones like you did with the GEC ones.


----------



## billerb1

thenewguy007 said:


> How did the GEC U709 change the sound? A lot of people say they don't really hear too much of a difference rolling rectifier tubes, but I haven't seen anyone actually roll high end ones like you did with the GEC ones.




Like I said, they are just being shipped today. They, however, have been highly recommended by Franatic who has them and whose musical opinion I very much
respect. That being said I've tried bunch of rectifiers on my WA2 and I certainly hear differences and have my favorites.


----------



## ru4music

billerb1 said:


> They ship today from England. Can't imagine my modest little system sounding much better but I'll let you know after they arrive.


 

 Actually, the more revealing a system is (i.e. better) the more likely you are to hear a difference.  What rect. tube are you running now, just for reference?


----------



## billerb1

ru4music said:


> Actually, the more revealing a system is (i.e. better) the more likely you are to hear a difference.  What rect. tube are you running now, just for reference?




I've gone thru quite a few and my preference has changed as I've changed some of the other tubes in the flotilla. When I first purchased the WA2 I started with Tung Sol 5998's and Philips Miniwatt (Holland) E188CC's. Initially went with the RFT EZ80 and then to the Brimar EZ80 black plates. I then got hooked on the Tung Sol 7236's for what was a bit smoother sound on my rig and ended up liking the Brimar EZ 81's with them . At the same time I moved from the E188CC Miniwatts to Amperex Holland pinched waists. Last major change was from the 7236's to the GEC 6AS7G's. With those I've been using Philips Miniwatt D-Getter (Holland) EZ81's. So as it stands now I'm waiting on the GEC U709's, and going with the GEC 6AS7G's, Miniwatt EZ81's and the new Telefunken E188CC's.
Can I take a breath now?


----------



## Jobbing

You must be in love with the Telefunken to change your signature like that


----------



## billerb1

jobbing said:


> You must be in love with the Telefunken to change your signature like that


 
  
 LMAO !!!  Yeah my pinched waists are mad at me.  And the Dutch government has recinded my vendor's permit for my food cart in downtown Heerlen.  Some countries just have thin skin.


----------



## Franatic

I should fly this:

 British tubes rule.................except for the WE 421A


----------



## billerb1

The Marconi/GEC U709's have made it to San Francisco Fran.  Should have them early next week.
 Will let you know.  I'm stoked.


----------



## Jobbing

billerb1 said:


> LMAO !!!  Yeah my pinched waists are mad at me.  And the Dutch government has recinded my vendor's permit for my food cart in downtown Heerlen.  Some countries just have thin skin.




Sorry to hear that Bill, I didn't mean to get personal.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Has anyone tried the 396A or 6N3P-E tubes?

http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-nos-6922-2/
http://www.head-fi.org/t/778250/schiit-mjolnir-2-listening-impressions/1260#post_12730353

It's a smaller 6922 compatible tube & needs an adapter to fit in the socket, but a lot of people are really hyping this.

Might be better than the Siemens CCA, Reflektors etc...


----------



## ru4music

thenewguy007 said:


> Has anyone tried the 396A or 6N3P-E tubes?
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-nos-6922-2/
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/778250/schiit-mjolnir-2-listening-impressions/1260#post_12730353
> ...


 

 I haven't yet, but I just ordered the adapters.  I have numerous 396A types (WE 396A, GE 5 star, and the venerable Bendix Red Bank 6385 etc.) to try since that is what my buffered output uses on my CDP.


----------



## Thenewguy007

ru4music said:


> I haven't yet, but I just ordered the adapters.  I have numerous 396A types (WE 396A, GE 5 star, and the venerable Bendix Red Bank 6385 etc.) to try since that is what my buffered output uses on my CDP.




Can't wait to hear your impressions.
Either iFi was hyping them legit, or they just paired well with what iFi was making.


----------



## ru4music

billerb1 said:


> The Marconi/GEC U709's have made it to San Francisco Fran.  Should have them early next week.
> Will let you know.  I'm stoked.


 

 Bill, any word for us on the U709s in the WA2?


----------



## billerb1

ru4music said:


> Bill, any word for us on the U709s in the WA2?



 


One was DOA and we're working on a replacement. Seller is fantastic so I'm sure we'll work it out. Very hard
tube to find, however.


----------



## ru4music

billerb1 said:


> ru4music said:
> 
> 
> > Bill, any word for us on the U709s in the WA2?
> ...


 

 Sorry to hear that, but that's what also makes this hobby so exciting... the thrill of the chase!


----------



## billerb1

Exactly.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> LMAO !!!  Yeah my pinched waists are mad at me.  And the Dutch government has recinded my vendor's permit for my food cart in downtown Heerlen.  Some countries just have thin skin.


 

 Wow - I can hardly believe my eyes - that Herleen Bill has gone to the dark side.  Or should I say the non-euphonic side!


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Wow - I can hardly believe my eyes - that Herleen Bill has gone to the dark side.  Or should I say the non-euphonic side!


 
  
 Roberto !!!!!!  Don't  get me wrong.  I still loves me my Pinched Waists and my Miniwatt E188CC's...BUT these Telefunken E188CC's have a magic synergy with the GEC 6AS7G's I just switched to in my Woo WA2.  Such a pure tone.  Detailed but not analytical or sterile at all.  Instrument timbre is resonant and pulsating...and this is where it isn't the "leap" from Heerlen to Ulm you'd think, at least to my ears, as far as richness of tone (what I associate with and love about the PWs).  I'd owned a pair of Tele E88CC's a few years ago and loved their delicate beauty...but they were definitely "delicate"...they never quite got there on an impact level.  These do !!!  Closest to "live" I've heard on my modest system.  It's been over a month now that I've had 'em  and the honeymoon is still going on.  I guess it's love.
 PS - I'm glad you got a kick out of my avatar.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Roberto !!!!!!  Don't  get me wrong.  I still loves me my Pinched Waists and my Miniwatt E188CC's...BUT these Telefunken E188CC's have a magic synergy with the GEC 6AS7G's I just switched to in my Woo WA2.  Such a pure tone.  Detailed but not analytical or sterile at all.  Instrument timbre is resonant and pulsating...and this is where it isn't the "leap" you think, at least to my ears, as far as richness of tone (what I associate with and love about the PWs).  I'd owned a pair of Tele E88CC's a few years ago and loved their delicate beauty...but they were definitely "delicate"...they never quite got there on an impact level.  These do !!!  Closest to "live" I've heard on my modest system.  It's been over a month now that I've had 'em  and the honeymoon is still going on.  I guess it's love.
> PS - I'm glad you got a kick out of my avatar.


 

 Yes they are pretty great those Tele E188CC's - I rated them very high in my review - have you heard the Tele CCa's?  They are god awful expensive.
  
 It's just such a seachange for a died in the wool 'Herleen Head' like yourself to go for the 'German' sound.
  
 I guess it just shows how system dependent the SQ is with the totl tubes - even in the same amp, but just with different output tubes.
  
 Love the avatar - Da!


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Yes they are pretty great those Tele E188CC's - I rated them very high in my review - have you heard the Tele CCa's?  They are god awful expensive.
> 
> It's just such a seachange for a died in the wool 'Herleen Head' like yourself to go for the 'German' sound.
> 
> ...


 

  Yeah when I bought them I thought they might pair well with the GEC's I mentioned and that they might be a real nice pair for acoustic and jazz, based on my experience with the Tele E88CC's.  But damn, everything I threw at them just sounded great.  I was surprised at the BALLS they had.  That was, and continues to be, the shocker.


----------



## ru4music

rb2013 said:


> I guess it just shows how system dependent the SQ is with the totl tubes - even in the same amp, but just with different output tubes.


 
  
 I'm still running the Reflektor '74 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields in my WA2.  A few months back they really opened up after about 300 hours of use.  It was like magic, out of the blue they just relaxed in their presentation, it was very notable in a very very good way!


----------



## billerb1

ru4music said:


> I'm still running the Reflektor '74 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields in my WA2.  A few months back they really opened up after about 300 hours of use.  It was like magic, out of the blue they just relaxed in their presentation, it was very notable in a very very good way!


 
  
 What power and rectifier tubes are you using ?


----------



## ru4music

billerb1 said:


> What power and rectifier tubes are you using ?


 

 ​TS 5998 and Brimar EZ80.


----------



## rb2013

ru4music said:


> I'm still running theReflektor '74 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields in my WA2.  A few months back they really opened up after about 300 hours of use.  It was like magic, out of the blue they just relaxed in their presentation, it was very notable in a very very good way!


Cheers to that...or I should say Da!! These totl Ruskies take a long time to burn in. 300 hours should do it. The good part is they seem to be very durable, I have pairs running for yrs, literally 24/7.


----------



## rb2013

I have yet to find a tube that beats them. The trouble is, I created a demand and these EBay Ukrainian dealers have jacked up the price on very questionable glass.


----------



## koven

hi all, what driver tubes would you recommend for  ~$200/pair? is this price point even worth an upgrade over stock? should i just bite the bullet on some high end driver tubes?


----------



## billerb1

koven said:


> hi all, what driver tubes would you recommend for  ~$200/pair? is this price point even worth an upgrade over stock? should i just bite the bullet on some high end driver tubes?


 
  
 What did you get stock?  What sound signature are you looking for?
 A lot of WA2 users swear by Tung Sol 5998's.  I started off with those and really loved them.
 You can find them for around $200-$250.  Then I got taken in by the Tung Sol 7236 sound.
 A pair of those can be had for around $100.
 I'm on to GEC 6AS7G's now.  Crazy expensive...but, to me, worth every penny.
  
 Edit: LOL, oh driver tubes.  I'm all crazy on the Telefunken E188CC's as noted.  You can get a pair for $250-$300.
 Holland Miniwatt or Holland Valvo E188CC's can be had for under $200.  Rob's Ruskie HG's.  There's a lot...depending on the
 sound that's in your audio wheelhouse.


----------



## Thenewguy007

rb2013 said:


> Yes they are pretty great those Tele E188CC's - I rated them very high in my review - have you heard the Tele CCa's?  They are god awful expensive.




Aren't CCa versions the exact same E188CC tube only hand selected because they test perfectly off the assembly line?


----------



## rb2013

thenewguy007 said:


> Aren't CCa versions the exact same E188CC tube only hand selected because they test perfectly off the assembly line?


 

 That is the common thought in tube circles - but that hand testing and matching is important.
  
 In my experience comparing the 60's gray shield Siemens CCa's to the Siemens E188CC or E88CC - a pretty big jump in SQ.
  
 And not just me - see this tube shootout:
 http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html
  
 But here the E188CC Tele beat out the Tele CCa's
  
 Never heard the Tele CCa's but I am curious. but not $1000 curious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Match-Pair-CCa-Telefunken-diamond-Tube-Same-production-code-Ulm-factory-/172153659272?hash=item2815285f88:g:OM8AAOSwsN9W~kuS


----------



## Oskari

thenewguy007 said:


> Aren't CCa versions the exact same E188CC tube only hand selected because they test perfectly off the assembly line?




(Note the fix.)


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> I've gone thru quite a few and my preference has changed as I've changed some of the other tubes in the flotilla. When I first purchased the WA2 I started with Tung Sol 5998's and Philips Miniwatt (Holland) E188CC's. Initially went with the RFT EZ80 and then to the Brimar EZ80 black plates. I then got hooked on the Tung Sol 7236's for what was a bit smoother sound on my rig and ended up liking the Brimar EZ 81's with them . At the same time I moved from the E188CC Miniwatts to Amperex Holland pinched waists. Last major change was from the 7236's to the GEC 6AS7G's. With those I've been using Philips Miniwatt D-Getter (Holland) EZ81's. So as it stands now I'm waiting on the GEC U709's, and going with the GEC 6AS7G's, Miniwatt EZ81's and the new Telefunken E188CC's.
> Can I take a breath now?




Hi. I've read your posts drom the last few weeks

I don't need more tubes BUT......

My main tubes are:
gec6as7g. Like you, yes they are expensive but they are also must haves.
Siemens cca 70's - strong detail and lively in a bright way and amperex 6922 pq (usa) - a strong versatile tube with a good mix of musicality and detail
and rft ez80

How does the philips miniwatt (holland) ez81 compare to the rft ez80 (and the mullard miniwatt ez81)

And how do feel your beloved telefunken e188cc would compare to the pre amp tubes i usually use that i mentionwd above)?

Thanks


----------



## eschell27

**Edit** 
 Think some people in the 6AS7G tube rollers thread solved the mystery. They seem to think that they are similar enough that they should work well together for the most part...as well as they can for not being a closely matched pair.
  
  
 I purchased a WA2 from the forums, the extra sets of tubes arrived today ahead of the amp... i opened them to find that what i thought was a pair of rca 6as7g ended up being 2 different rca tubes... from my limited knowledge of tubes im assuming it would be bad to use them together? Can anyone identify them so that i might attempt to find some of the same tubes and have to sets of rca 6as7g and even though they wouldnt be closely matched sets they should at that point be able to work okay together?
 Or would i be better off just selling them individually and getting a matched pair from a reputable source?
 I also posted in the 6as7g tube rollers thread to see if anyone can ID them.
  
 I'm bummed! was looking forward to trying these over the stock... guess i'll have to wait a little longer!
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## eschell27

Also... if anyone has some extra tubes that might match well with my setup (DAC-19 > WA2 > T1 gen 1) and would want to help out someone new to tubes and the WA2 please PM me!
  
 Beyond that even just some suggestions for good pairings... Definitely don't need to add anything to the T1.1's top end! So something that might help keep that wonderful midrange but add a little ooomph to the low end while keeping it tight?


----------



## thecrow

eschell27 said:


> Also... if anyone has some extra tubes that might match well with my setup (DAC-19 > WA2 > T1 gen 1) and would want to help out someone new to tubes and the WA2 please PM me!
> 
> Beyond that even just some suggestions for good pairings... Definitely don't need to add anything to the T1.1's top end! So something that might help keep that wonderful midrange but add a little ooomph to the low end while keeping it tight?



Have a look at "joe's tube lore". Great info on a lot of 6922 options

Good mid price tubes that i like are the amperex 6922 pq made in usa. Nice mid range. Not too sharp up high. Good tighter bottom end


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> Hi. I've read your posts drom the last few weeks
> 
> I don't need more tubes BUT......
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry Crow, didn't see your post till just now.
 Obviously all this stuff is system dependent and so damn subjective all I can do is say how they sound to me.  I had the holland miniwatt ez81's when I was still using TS 7236's as my power tubes and the minis didn't do a thing for me.  They just came alive with the GEC 6AS7G's.  Great timbre, much more extension on both edges.  More life to them to my ears.  I started off with the RFT EZ80's when I was running the TS 5998's and really liked them.  They seemed 'thinner' to me than the holland mini ez81's with the GEC's.  I have a pair of Mullard EZ81's.  A lot of people swear by them but mine seem kind of edgy.  I've just never been moved by them.  They're from the late 50's but they looked unused when I got them.  They probably would improve greatly if I gave them 100 hours.  I'm definitely holding on to them.
 I've never heard the Siemens Cca's from the 70's (A-frame?) or the Cca's from the 60's for that matter so I can't comment.  I did have a pair of early 60's grey shield Siemens E88CC's...but they were really recessed in the mids and that's a killer for me.  Might have just been the pair I had.  Before I stumbled on to the Tele E188CC's that I'm using now I'd been running Holland Miniwatt E188CC's and then Holland Amperex Pinched Waists.  Gorgeous midrange...the PW's to me are just the Miniwatts on steroids.  Such juicy, pulsating timbre and tone.  I personally like the Holland sound somewhat over the USA's.  The  USA's to me are very 'live' sounding, probably a bit more detailed but a more raw sound.  I like that bit of sweetness that the Hollands bring for me.  
 I'm assuming the Tele's that I'm using now are somewhat similar to your Cca's.  I was surprised as I think I wrote before that these Tele E188CC's packed the punch that they do.  I got them hoping they'd pair great with the GEC's for acoustic and jazz and would be a nice compliment for my PW's.  That was based on having a pair of Tele E88CC's a few years ago who's sound I  loved but they never quite got there impact-wise.  These E188CC's ended up delivering with every kind of music I threw at them.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 that info is great. 

Looks like the holland ez81's might be interesting for my system

It looks like even though your teles may offer more they would be in the same vein as the ccas with my amperex usa pq a little less bright or less extended on the top, a little less detail but well balanced with nice mids. 

I probably woukd like the teles but not needing them at their price based on what i already have

I may look in the future towards a good holland pair of tubes. 
I do have some bugle boys. Rolled off and easy going if im worried about the top end. They havent been used for a while but they were too cheap to worry about passing them on. Happy to pop them in sometime again when im in that mood. The same goes for the gec 6as7g - easily my best and standard choicecbut my others (ts 5998, bendix slotted graphites etc) are for other times


----------



## Thenewguy007

eschell27 said:


> **Edit**
> Think some people in the 6AS7G tube rollers thread solved the mystery. They seem to think that they are similar enough that they should work well together for the most part...as well as they can for not being a closely matched pair.
> 
> 
> ...




I think those are the same type of tubes. A lot of RCA 6AS7G are re-branded or licensed to other companies, but were all made from the same one company & manufacturing plant.


----------



## eschell27

Just got my WA2 today!!! Loving it with my T1's thus far. Using the rca 6as7g  stock 6922 and amperex ez81/6ca4. (working with what the previous owner sent me tube wise).
 Also included were the stock ge jan-6080wc, pair of rca 6080, electro harmonix 6ca4, and some westinghouse 6ca4.
 Just starting to read through this thread to decide on which tubes to move onto. Firstly i think i would like to replace the stock 6922 and all these ez81 with some ez80.
 Will be using with my DAC-19 and T1 gen 1 and HD650. Would like to find something that can keep the great midrange out front and add some nice tight bass slam while not losing too much on the top end. ( please bare with me i am new to the WA2 and tubes) Any suggestions would be welcome. Willing to spend 2-300 hundred to start between a replacement pair rectifiers and drivers.
  
 Also as far as the rolling goes can anyone describe which pair (driver/rect/power) has the most influence on sound or roughly how each one influences if possible...or does it depend more on a tube by tube basis as opposed to which type it is?
  
 Will probably spend a chunk of my evening digging through this thread and hunting around the net for places to source some tubes.
 Thanks in advance and i appreciate the help...looking forward to learning more about the WA2 and tubes in general.
  
 Also any experience with these?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/815983/pair-of-ameprex-7308-gold-pin-tubes-and-more-price-includes-shipping
http://www.head-fi.org/t/815123/telefunken-e88cc-nos-matched-pair
http://www.head-fi.org/t/814890/6dj8-6922-7308-tubes-dario-valvo-siemens-e188cc-e88cc
 How they sound, is that a fair price? Couldnt nail down exactly which ones those are in order to find a comparable price or what the sq is like...


----------



## thecrow

I remember when i got my wa2 for my hd800 a year ago. Upgraded from a burson soloist.
I was surprisingly impressd how good it was. Silky smooth
The same thing thing happened (up anoyher level) when i then upgraded the tubes. Enjoy

Here's two great reference sources

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html

http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm

I found brent jessee great. I bought my first tubes from him. You'll generally pay a bit more than ebay (if you sus things out - you will get help here and other related threads though). But with brent jessee you know you'll get good tubes and advice. 

I have bought a few tubes on ebay but have had no problems. Like always look at history, return policy (i had to return one pair with no problem). And you'll notice a few eBay sellers noted here as a bit dodgy

As mentioned earlier i fond the amperex pq 6922 as great value. I love my expensive gec6as7g tubes - exceptional detail and clarity wnad extension. But i have heard the tung sol 5998 tubes (that i have as well) are really good with the t1. Punchy and full sound. Maaybe about $250 per dozen

Also can be known as chatham 2399 (from memory)

Cheapie rectifiers i was put on to by experienced heads here was the rft ez80. Maybe about $40 per pair

My advice was don't go too crazy on tubes to atart with. And if you think something is a bit better suited for a few more dollars then stretch the budget where you. Its a lot better than trying to sell tubes later and they should last a long time. Going from the ts5998 to gec6as7g for 2x plus the price may not be worth it for some (it was for me) but going from say $150 to $200 for some pre amp tubes that you think would suit better i think is

Hope that helps a little


----------



## eschell27

Yes thank you crow! I have seen alot about the tung sol/chatham 5998. But been reading a lot of good things about the 6as7g family as well for power tubes.
 If anyone has an extra tubes of any kind for the wa2 they would be willing to part with please PM me.
 Also if anyone knows or specific ebay sellers that are reputable for tubes pass that info along as well either here or PM. Would be nice to know the names of a few sellers on ebay that people around here have come to know and trust!


----------



## jhljhl

thecrow said:


> I remember when i got my wa2 for my hd800 a year ago. Upgraded from a burson soloist.
> I was surprisingly impressd how good it was. Silky smooth
> The same thing thing happened (up anoyher level) when i then upgraded the tubes. Enjoy
> 
> ...


 

 You should try t1 with wa2 - I hear the synergy is really something. They are a little too dark for hd650. The synergy of hd650 and Crack amp is on par apparently with t1 and wa2.


----------



## thecrow

jhljhl said:


> You should try t1 with wa2 - I hear the synergy is really something. They are a little too dark for hd650. The synergy of hd650 and Crack amp is on par apparently with t1 and wa2.



The t1's (or even the t90's) might one day join my stable. 
I have heard them but bot with my amp yet. 

Not sure if i'll end up with them or not. At the moment mney has gne to cables. The t1's are both similar and different to the hd800 so i may or may not get them down the track. Will depend on available funds but currently not up there as a priority. Very happy with my hd800's.


----------



## Thenewguy007

eschell27 said:


> Yes thank you crow! I have seen alot about the tung sol/chatham 5998. But been reading a lot of good things about the 6as7g family as well for power tubes.
> If anyone has an extra tubes of any kind for the wa2 they would be willing to part with please PM me.
> Also if anyone knows or specific ebay sellers that are reputable for tubes pass that info along as well either here or PM. Would be nice to know the names of a few sellers on ebay that people around here have come to know and trust!




Pretty much any person on eBay with a lot of positive feedback would be fine. Especially if they will accept returns for any defects.


----------



## jhljhl

thecrow said:


> The t1's (or even the t90's) might one day join my stable.
> I have heard them but bot with my amp yet.
> 
> Not sure if i'll end up with them or not. At the moment mney has gne to cables. The t1's are both similar and different to the hd800 so i may or may not get them down the track. Will depend on available funds but currently not up there as a priority. Very happy with my hd800's.


 

 Yeah iirc the hd800 sounded pretty good but I couldn't help thinking -because I had sold my t1s at the time- how I was pretty sure that combo would be as stellar as everyone claims they are.


----------



## billerb1

Just wanted to give a big recommendation to Valve Tubes in the UK.  Owner's name is Kef.  Franatic (Fran) turned me on to them quite awhile ago and he certainly was right about them.  They are especially great for hard-to-find tubes.
 I recently was looking for some rare GEC/Marconi U709 (EZ81) rectifiers for my WA2.  Kef found them for me but one was damaged in shipping.  Things happen.  Kef went WAY over and above to make the situation right.  He stayed in touch and managed to find a replacement tube, which considering how rare these tubes are, was just freaking amazing.  He also went out of his way to find an appropriate pair of GEC 6AS7G's that I was looking for as a backup to the NOS pair he sold me a year or so ago.
 Bottom line, Kef and Valve Tubes are the best.  They can be reached at contact@valvetubes.com
 And thanks again to Franatic for the initial recommendation.


----------



## eschell27

Out of curiosity, what are people paying for pairs of GEC 6as7g? I got a WA2 last week and have been poking around here and there, yet to actually see a pair for sale. I would like to get some in the next couple months if i'm able to track down a pair... wanting to know what i'll expect to pay...


----------



## billerb1

eschell27 said:


> Out of curiosity, what are people paying for pairs of GEC 6as7g? I got a WA2 last week and have been poking around here and there, yet to actually see a pair for sale. I would like to get some in the next couple months if i'm able to track down a pair... wanting to know what i'll expect to pay...




Sit down. In the $500+ for NOS...somewhat less for used. But such a pure sound. To me worth every penny.


----------



## eschell27

I was expecting you to say $400-500. haha. I saw you talking about Valve Tubes in the UK... when im ready to purchase perhaps i should put him on the task, sit back and let him work his magic?


----------



## billerb1

eschell27 said:


> I was expecting you to say $400-500. haha. I saw you talking about Valve Tubes in the UK... when im ready to purchase perhaps i should put him on the task, sit back and let him work his magic?




Say hi to Kef for me. I think he may have a pair of NOS curved brown base...which are the most sought-after. They'll probably be closer to $600 than $500.
You get what you pay for.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Just wanted to give a big recommendation to Valve Tubes in the UK.  Owner's name is Kef.  Franatic (Fran) turned me on to them quite awhile ago and he certainly was right about them.  They are especially great for hard-to-find tubes.
> I recently was looking for some rare GEC/Marconi U709 (EZ81) rectifiers for my WA2.  Kef found them for me but one was damaged in shipping.  Things happen.  Kef went WAY over and above to make the situation right.  He stayed in touch and managed to find a replacement tube, which considering how rare these tubes are, was just freaking amazing.  He also went out of his way to find an appropriate pair of GEC 6AS7G's that I was looking for as a backup to the NOS pair he sold me a year or so ago.
> Bottom line, Kef and Valve Tubes are the best.  They can be reached at contact@valvetubes.com
> And thanks again to Franatic for the initial recommendation.


And please let us know how these rectifiers Sound. 

Can i ask how much were they?


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> And please let us know how these rectifiers Sound.
> 
> Can i ask how much were they?


 
  
 If I remember right I think something like $225-$250 for the NOS pair.  Yeah I'll give you my impressions when they get here.


----------



## Thenewguy007

eschell27 said:


> Out of curiosity, what are people paying for pairs of GEC 6as7g? I got a WA2 last week and have been poking around here and there, yet to actually see a pair for sale. I would like to get some in the next couple months if i'm able to track down a pair... wanting to know what i'll expect to pay...




I seen a few pop up on eBay ever 1 to 2 months & they usually sell for $400+ a pair.


----------



## billerb1

thenewguy007 said:


> I seen a few pop up on eBay ever 1 to 2 months & they usually sell for $400+ a pair.


 
  
 From what I've seen those are almost always used to varying degrees and almost always not matched.
 But you can always get lucky if you stay diligent.
  
  
 Edit:  Whoa, just checked for fun.  These JUST came up and he's a good seller.  Not a bad price at all for NOS.  They are the flat-based, not the curved-based.  They are like the pair I have.  I've not heard that there is a difference in sound signature with the more desired and more expensive curved-based ones but someone here may feel differently and want to chime in.  I think it's just aesthetics.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-CV2523-GEC-NOS-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC39-/311677641589?hash=item48916f6375:g:dtkAAOSw6n5Xsugi


----------



## ru4music

billerb1 said:


> From what I've seen those are almost always used to varying degrees and almost always not matched.
> But you can always get lucky if you stay diligent.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It has been purported (i.e. said) that the curve base sounds better, but ... do Bendix 6080WB slotted graphite plates sound better than non slotted, do WE 421As sound better than TS 5998s????  Some argue yes and others no, YMMV!  However, the curve base GEC is the earlier version by one or two years before they switched to the straight base.
  
 EDIT: BTW, the sound signature is reported to be the same with just a very slight improvement.


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> It has been purported (i.e. said) that the curve base sounds better, but ... do Bendix 6080WB slotted graphite plates sound better than non slotted, *do WE 421As sound better than TS 5998s????*  Some argue yes and others no, YMMV!  However, the curve base GEC is the earlier version by one or two years before they switched to the straight base.
> 
> EDIT: BTW, the sound signature is reported to be the same with just a very slight improvement.


 
  
 Yes, as long as they are the real deal with bottom 'D' getters. My experience, anyway...


----------



## Krutsch

billerb1 said:


> Edit:  Whoa, just checked for fun. * These JUST came up and he's a good seller.  Not a bad price at all for NOS. * They are the flat-based, not the curved-based.  They are like the pair I have.  I've not heard that there is a difference in sound signature with the more desired and more expensive curved-based ones but someone here may feel differently and want to chime in.  I think it's just aesthetics.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-CV2523-GEC-NOS-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC39-/311677641589?hash=item48916f6375:g:dtkAAOSw6n5Xsugi


 
  
 These are tempting and look nice (would be great to see more photos), but I am already too deep into tube spend.
  
 I have a pair of these and in my WA3 I think they sound nice, but not worth the spend, to be honest. Just my opinion, but maybe with the WA2 it's a different experience.


----------



## billerb1

krutsch said:


> These are tempting and look nice (would be great to see more photos), but I am already too deep into tube spend.
> 
> I have a pair of these and in my WA3 I think they sound nice, but not worth the spend, to be honest. Just my opinion, but maybe with the WA2 it's a different experience.



 


Lol, maybe they need to be paired to get the magic. Hey, it's a sound. We all hear and like different things.
What you using?


----------



## billerb1

Same seller...but the curved-based

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-A1834-GEC-NOS-BOXED-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC40-/262581613881?hash=item3d23157539:g:2DoAAOSwdzVXtChL


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> krutsch said:
> 
> 
> > These are tempting and look nice (would be great to see more photos), but I am already too deep into tube spend.
> ...


This sound is for me. Wa2 and hd800

For me, must haves if the budget can be stretched that far 

I'll use these tubes (i hope) for longer than i'll use my current model iphone. 

By the way am i right in hoping that gec tubes are ok to be used if not matched quite right but sound ok together? That is, no danage to amp.


----------



## Krutsch

billerb1 said:


> Same seller...but the curved-based
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-A1834-GEC-NOS-BOXED-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC40-/262581613881?hash=item3d23157539:g:2DoAAOSwdzVXtChL


 

 Yeah... these look like the tubes I have... maybe I need to give them a fresh listen. But everything bows to the majesty of the Western Electrics


----------



## eschell27

Has anyone compared the GEC 6080 to the GEC 6as7g? Some people say they are a similar sound and that the 6080 is close enough in SQ especially at the considerably lower price. I have yet to hear either but may give the 6080 a shot before sinking $5-600 into a nice pair of 6as7g if they will give me 60-80% idea of how awesome their big brother is!


----------



## billerb1

Fran (Franatic),  the HiFi'er who turned me on to Valve Tubes, swears by the Westerns.  I've never heard them.  I had the TS5998's but not the legendary WE 421A's.


----------



## thecrow

eschell27 said:


> Has anyone compared the GEC 6080 to the GEC 6as7g? Some people say they are a similar sound and that the 6080 is close enough in SQ especially at the considerably lower price. I have yet to hear either but may give the 6080 a shot before sinking $5-600 into a nice pair of 6as7g if they will give me 60-80% idea of how awesome their big brother is!


I beleive that the gec6as7g tubes are up there uniquely by themselves. And under them and slightly different are the tung sol 5998 and we421a

Perhaps you are thinking of the gec 6as7ga (which are shaped like the gec6080? Perhaps.

Edit: to add a couple of things

after buying my wa2 about a year ago and sourcing a lot of info from experienced heads here and buying a group of tubes i would say that common shared experiences and views in this thread hold true and can be used as a firm guide

if you are looking for neutralness and detail is essential then the gec6as7g are what you want - IF they fit within your budget. Great extension and both ends, magical and sweet and the detail...well i already mentioned that. there are some opinions that the tung sol 5998 and the we 421a can go better with the t1 headphones for some though. my personal experiences are with my hd800

the ts998/we421a offer a little less detail but deliver more punch / rock overall - perhaps i notice that more due to the little less detail. mind you that is not saying that the gec6as7g don't deliver punch. Perhaps this extra punch works well with th me t1's ti fill out their mids abit. these are 1/2 the price of the gec's so again, if budget is important.....but can you stretch it.....

after that then we go to others. that sit below including some that i have - less detail (some more than others), quite often more warmth. I do enjoy my bendix 6080wb graphite slots when i'm looking for something different when listening to, for example, some deep purple.


it all comes down to what's important for you. what your are after, what you listen to, your headphones

i personally use my gec tunes 90% of the time and am more likely to change the preamp tubes just for something different.
For ME the preamp tubes are the tweak but the power tube choice is more the base of what you are after sound wise

i hope my views might help a little at least to let you know one person's opinion


bottom line - the recurring/consistent views from/among members here i have found hold true

good luck and have fun

the wa2 is a great amp


----------



## billerb1

Well we all kinda swear by what we like.  I've heard some swear the Westerns are identical to the 5998's and others swear there is no comparison.  I love the sound of the GEC's but I've talked to some who think they're nothing special.  It's not about convincing anyone that you're right or that your taste somehow ranks higher.  There are a lot of high quality sound signatures out there.  I just wish mine didn't always seem to cost so damn much.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Well we all kinda swear by what we like.  I've heard some swear the Westerns are identical to the 5998's and others swear there is no comparison.  I love the sound of the GEC's but I've talked to some who think they're nothing special.  It's not about convincing anyone that you're right or that your taste somehow ranks higher.  There are a lot of high quality sound signatures out there.  I just wish mine didn't always seem to cost so damn much.


I totally agree on everypoint.


----------



## billerb1

eschell27 said:


> Has anyone compared the GEC 6080 to the GEC 6as7g? Some people say they are a similar sound and that the 6080 is close enough in SQ especially at the considerably lower price. I have yet to hear either but may give the 6080 a shot before sinking $5-600 into a nice pair of 6as7g if they will give me 60-80% idea of how awesome their big brother is!


 
  
 I had the 6080's first and they baited me into wanting more of that sound.  The 6AS7G's turned out to be the full meal deal for me.


----------



## eschell27

Thanks for all the info! Will be saving up for the next few weeks and will continue to dig around before i settle on my first pair of power tubes and another pair of drivers.
  
 Side note... Anyone have an extra pair of rft ez80's laying around they would part with? All the ones im seeing on ebay are coming from over seas...so thought i'd ask around before ordering from ebay.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Krutsch

billerb1 said:


> Well we all kinda swear by what we like. * I've heard some swear the Westerns are identical to the 5998's and others swear there is no comparison*.  I love the sound of the GEC's but I've talked to some who think they're nothing special.  It's not about convincing anyone that you're right or that your taste somehow ranks higher.  There are a lot of high quality sound signatures out there.  I just wish mine didn't always seem to cost so damn much.


 
  
 I'm not a tube guru, so take my observations with a grain of salt. My belief is that It depends on the versions of the above tubes. 
  
 I have a collection of TS5998 and a collection of WE421a. My Westerns were sourced from a former Western Bell employee, via a dealer, and they are physically different from my TS5998s. I think there were likely versions of the WE421a that may have been re-branded TS5998 - I've seen pics on-line of them with the WE base-labeling, but without the same physical construction as my tubes. Most notably, the TS5998/WE421a tubes are missing the bottom D-getters.
  
 The sound really is different. The 5998s I have exhibit an upper-bass / lower-mid bloom that isn't there with the WE421a and nothing I've heard can compare with the detail, tonality and punch of these tubes in my WA3.
  
 I am going roll back in one of my GECs to see if my own opinion still holds, just for fun.
  
 As always, YMMV.


----------



## ru4music

Auditioning some WE 396A (Northern Electric label) driver tubes in the WA2 via 6N3->ECC88 adapters.  Initial report: they sound very good.  They have a slightly warm (not lush), detailed and relaxed presentation which can be welcoming for the "in-your-face" and "all-business" TS5998s.  So far they seem to play all genre of music well (Rock, Blues, Jazz etc.)  I'd love to hear how these pair with the GEC 6AS7G or WE 421As (hint... hint my fellow tube rollers!)
  

  
 Cheers!


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Same seller...but the curved-based
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-A1834-GEC-NOS-BOXED-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC40-/262581613881?hash=item3d23157539:g:2DoAAOSwdzVXtChL



That was langrex selling them

Anyone here bought them?


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> That was langrex selling them
> 
> Anyone here bought them?


 

 Not me!  At $650 USD for the pair, yikes!  That money would be better spent moving up to a different platform (e.g. 300B or 45 tubed based) in my opinion.
  
  
 BTW, the WE 396A drivers put the TS 5998 presentation very close to the GEC 6as7g sound signature (from what I recall when I demoed the GECs in my system.) Of course, unfortunately, the price of the 5998 keeps going up as well!


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> Not me!  *At $650 USD for the pair, yikes!  That money would be better spent moving up to a different platform (*e.g. 300B or 45 tubed based) in my opinion.
> 
> 
> BTW, the WE 396A drivers put the TS 5998 presentation very close to the GEC 6as7g sound signature (from what I recall when I demoed the GECs in my system.) Of course, unfortunately, the price of the 5998 keeps going up as well!


 
  
 Looking at the unbelievable prices for many of the tubes in my collection, I've thought about unloading the entire collection and using the funds on a TOTL solid state amp.
  
 I dread the thought of going through the headache of boxing, packing, shipping and then dealing with the inevitable complaints from recipients on eBay.


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> Looking at the unbelievable prices for many of the tubes in my collection, I've thought about unloading the entire collection and using the funds on a TOTL solid state amp.
> 
> I dread the thought of going through the headache of boxing, packing, shipping and then dealing with the inevitable complaints from recipients on eBay.


 

 No kidding, the prices are through the roof and keep going up.  It was just a few years ago when the GECs were selling for about $225-250/ pr. and we thought that was high.  At some point the price of tubes will be so inflated we'll dare not even listen to our systems, but just polish them and store them in a safety deposit box in a bank vault!


----------



## Thenewguy007

krutsch said:


> Looking at the unbelievable prices for many of the tubes in my collection, I've thought about unloading the entire collection and using the funds on a TOTL solid state amp.
> 
> I dread the thought of going through the headache of boxing, packing, shipping and then dealing with the inevitable complaints from recipients on eBay.




You could sell them here. There can probably be a few people from the 6AS7G/Woo/Elise threads that can make you offers on the spot.


----------



## jhljhl

thenewguy007 said:


> You could sell them here. There can probably be a few people from the 6AS7G/Woo/Elise threads that can make you offers on the spot.


 
 Makes sense tube prices going up after all amps that need them are being increasingly sold.


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> No kidding, the prices are through the roof and keep going up.  It was just a few years ago when the GECs were selling for about $225-250/ pr. and we thought that was high.  At some point the price of tubes will be so inflated we'll dare not even listen to our systems, but just polish them and store them in a safety deposit box in a bank vault!


 
  
  


thenewguy007 said:


> You could sell them here. There can probably be a few people from the 6AS7G/Woo/Elise threads that can make you offers on the spot.


 

 That occurred to me. I would need to purchase a tube tester to verify their value. I don't know... I keep thinking I am going to buy a WA2 and move my WA3 to my office, but something else always comes up.


----------



## jhljhl

I have some ez80/81 rectifiers for sale.


----------



## Thenewguy007

ru4music said:


> Auditioning some WE 396A (Northern Electric label) driver tubes in the WA2 via 6N3->ECC88 adapters.  Initial report: they sound very good.  They have a slightly warm (not lush), detailed and relaxed presentation which can be welcoming for the "in-your-face" and "all-business" TS5998s.  So far they seem to play all genre of music well (Rock, Blues, Jazz etc.)  I'd love to hear how these pair with the GEC 6AS7G or WE 421As (hint... hint my fellow tube rollers!)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So how are you liking the WE 396A?
You think it's a step up from your Reflector tubes besides the warmth?

Have you had any Amperex tubes to compare with?


----------



## ru4music

(e.g. Rock, Blues, Jazz, Classical etc.) Quote: 





thenewguy007 said:


> So how are you liking the WE 396A?
> You think it's a step up from your Reflector tubes besides the warmth?
> 
> Have you had any Amperex tubes to compare with?


 

 ​Disclaimer: Still testing, but here are my present thoughts!
  
 I'm really liking the WE 396A *ALOT*, I'm listening to them right now.  They are very musical and at the same time provide great detail and imaging/ sound staging with a good extension range from top to bottom.  They also play everything well whatever the quality of the recording (within reason of course.)  They are definitely a top-tier tube based on my WA2 setup and listening experience.  I have yet to find a genre of music (e.g. Rock, Blues, Jazz, Classical etc.) where they have failed me. I had initially thought that they may (at some point) have a congestion issue when playing complex passages of music, but this has not been the case.  In fact, I have been highly impressed by the balance of tonality, musicality, clarity, and detail retrieval during complex music iterations (may be the best I've heard so far on my platform.)
  

The WE 396A provide increased musicality, slightly better tonality with a much better tolerance for recording quality variations.
The "Holy Grail" Reflector provide better detail retrieval at the cost of some musicality and slightly less tonality.  They reward higher quality recordings and at the same time expose flaws in lessor productions.
The Amperex 6922 PQ provide generally good overall performance with slightly less musicality and tonality, and an increased congestion to complex music passages.
  
 I may need to do a A/B/C comparison in the near future between the WE 396A, "Holy Grail" Reflectors, and the Amperex PQ 6922, but I would rate (at the moment) the Amperex PQ 6922 #3 after the other two.


----------



## jhljhl

ru4music said:


> ​Disclaimer: Still testing, but here are my present thoughts!
> 
> I'm really liking the WE 396A *ALOT*, I'm listening to them right now.  They are very musical and at the same time provide great detail and imaging/ sound staging with a good extension range from top to bottom.  They also play everything well whatever the quality of the recording (within reason of course.)  They are definitely a top-tier tube based on my WA2 setup and listening experience.  I have yet to find a genre of music (e.g. Rock, Blues, Jazz, Classical etc.) where they have failed me. I had initially thought that they may (at some point) have a congestion issue when playing complex passages of music, but this has not been the case.  In fact, I have been highly impressed by the balance of tonality, musicality, clarity, and detail retrieval during complex music iterations (may be the best I've heard so far on my platform.)
> 
> ...


 

 Interestingly I've been waiting for 6sn7 adapters for these same we396a tubes.


----------



## ru4music

jhljhl said:


> Interestingly I've been waiting for 6sn7 adapters for these same we396a tubes.


 

 ​Looking forward to your observations.
  
 I wouldn't really discard any of the tubes I listed.  To me, it really depends on the engineering attributes of a recording and the particular system platform that makes a potential top-tier tube stand-out.  It almost comes down to a level of convenience; which tube will give me the most overall satisfaction based on the media I have to listen to without having to swap out tubes and headphones.


----------



## eschell27

Think i'm going to pull the trigger on a pair of TS 5998's tomorrow... anybody very familiar with their variations care to take a look at these and let me know if they think they look like good tubes at a fair price?
  
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-NOS-TUNG-SOL-5998-TUBES-DOMINO-BLACK-PLATE-6080-421A-TYPE-PAIRS-AVAILABLE-/182247532771?hash=item2a6ecca8e3:g:Rv0AAOSwzgRW0e5k
  
 Thank you


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> And please let us know how these rectifiers Sound.
> 
> 
> 
> Can i ask how much were they?






 


Well the Marconi U709 EZ81 replacement from Kef at Valve Tubes arrived yesterday.  Again, the customer service with him is off the charts.  Hard to find tube...want to be sure of quality...get ahold of Kef.  End of commercial.


Just some initial reads on it.  I've been using Holland Miniwatt EZ81's, GEC 6AS7G's and Telefunken E188CCs.  These Marconis are completely NIB NOS so they need some burn-in.  I don't think they've maybe ever seen the sun.  I do know this already.  They are a difference maker.  My initial thought was, "Whoa, these  boys are a little hot."  I think I remember Franatic saying these added a touch more punch.  Kind of reminded me of the first time I heard the TS 5998's, just juiced everything a notch up.  I'm not quite sure if i like all that that extra brings.  When I first listened last nite I thought maybe more detail...but maybe just a little thinner in tone.  Today I've adjusted some.  Tone and deep resonance all seemed back like with the Miniwatt EZ81's...but it was with that added detail revealed.  Seemed like my headphone cable just got a couple of stents.


So I am definitely intrigued.  Need to spend quite a bit more time as they and my brain burn-in.


----------



## thecrow

eschell27 said:


> Think i'm going to pull the trigger on a pair of TS 5998's tomorrow... anybody very familiar with their variations care to take a look at these and let me know if they think they look like good tubes at a fair price?
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-NOS-TUNG-SOL-5998-TUBES-DOMINO-BLACK-PLATE-6080-421A-TYPE-PAIRS-AVAILABLE-/182247532771?hash=item2a6ecca8e3:g:Rv0AAOSwzgRW0e5k
> ...




They LOOK good to me, as in they are the tubes you're after. It would me good to have some info re testing, for whatever that is worth on ebay. I'd be expecting a decent pair to be $250 USD. And a very good pair a little more. 

Mind you that single tube price is also showing a shipping charge of $140 USD. I trust its not as mch to you


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Well the Marconi U709 EZ81 replacement from Kef at Valve Tubes arrived yesterday.  Again, the customer service with him is off the charts.  Hard to find tube...want to be sure of quality...get ahold of Kef.  End of commercial.
> Just some initial reads on it.  I've been using Holland Miniwatt EZ81's, GEC 6AS7G's and Telefunken E188CCs.  These Marconis are completely NIB NOS so they need some burn-in.  I don't think they've maybe ever seen the sun.  I do know this already.  They are a difference maker.  My initial thought was, "Whoa, these  boys are a little hot."  I think I remember Franatic saying these added a touch more punch.  Kind of reminded me of the first time I hear the TS 5998's, just juiced everything a notch up.  I'm not quite sure if i like all that that extra brings.  When I first listened last nite I thought maybe more detail...but maybe just a little thinner in tone.  Today I've adjusted some.  Tone and deep resonance all seemed back like with the Miniwatt EZ81's...but it was with that added detail revealed.  Seemed like my headphone cable just got a couple of stents.
> So I am definitely intrigued.  Need to spend quite a bit more time as they and my brain burn-in.


thanks for that

Keep me posted please. 

Also once the tubes and you have been run in if you still have the rft ez80j a comparison would also be great as those are what i have


----------



## ru4music

eschell27 said:


> Think i'm going to pull the trigger on a pair of TS 5998's tomorrow... anybody very familiar with their variations care to take a look at these and let me know if they think they look like good tubes at a fair price?
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-NOS-TUNG-SOL-5998-TUBES-DOMINO-BLACK-PLATE-6080-421A-TYPE-PAIRS-AVAILABLE-/182247532771?hash=item2a6ecca8e3:g:Rv0AAOSwzgRW0e5k
> ...


 

 ​They look good to me, testing at NOS levels and within 8% of each triode.  The auction has the "Make Offer" option.  I would offer $125 or less for each tube, the seller will likely counter offer if you're a little low of the minimum.  I think I may have purchased from this seller some time back, but that was so many tubes ago I don't recall for sure!


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> They LOOK good to me, as in they are the tubes you're after. It would me good to have some info re testing, for whatever that is worth on ebay. I'd be expecting a decent pair to be $250 USD. And a very good pair a little more.
> 
> Mind you that single tube price is *also showing a shipping charge of $140 USD*. I trust its not as mch to you


 
 In the middle US it's showing $12.66 USD shipping charges so @eschell27 should be ok.


----------



## ru4music

billerb1 said:


> Well the Marconi U709 EZ81 replacement from Kef at Valve Tubes arrived yesterday.  Again, the customer service with him is off the charts.  Hard to find tube...want to be sure of quality...get ahold of Kef.  End of commercial.
> Just some initial reads on it.  I've been using Holland Miniwatt EZ81's, GEC 6AS7G's and Telefunken E188CCs.  These Marconis are completely NIB NOS so they need some burn-in.  I don't think they've maybe ever seen the sun.  I do know this already.  They are a difference maker.  My initial thought was, "Whoa, these  boys are a little hot."  I think I remember Franatic saying these added a touch more punch.  Kind of reminded me of the first time I hear the TS 5998's, just juiced everything a notch up.  I'm not quite sure if i like all that that extra brings.  When I first listened last nite I thought maybe more detail...but maybe just a little thinner in tone.  Today I've adjusted some.  Tone and deep resonance all seemed back like with the Miniwatt EZ81's...but it was with that added detail revealed.  Seemed like my headphone cable just got a couple of stents.
> So I am definitely intrigued.  Need to spend quite a bit more time as they and my brain burn-in.


 
  
 ...


----------



## Krutsch

eschell27 said:


> Think i'm going to pull the trigger on a pair of TS 5998's tomorrow... anybody very familiar with their variations care to take a look at these and let me know if they think they look like good tubes at a fair price?
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-NOS-TUNG-SOL-5998-TUBES-DOMINO-BLACK-PLATE-6080-421A-TYPE-PAIRS-AVAILABLE-/182247532771?hash=item2a6ecca8e3:g:Rv0AAOSwzgRW0e5k
> ...


 

 I looked at the offering and the bases and pins look like new. My only concern was a lack of tube-tester info (numbers or photos of the test results).
  
 Enjoy your new TS5998 tubes and welcome to the beginning of accelerated wallet drainage ... tube rolling gets expensive.
  
 On that note, don't be afraid to try some "lesser" tubes. I am listening, as I type this, to an RCA 6AS7g in my Woo WA3 that the seller listed as pegging the tube tester (120/120). I took a chance at $49.00 for the pair and they are extremely clean sounding with smooth tonality. As they burn-in (these look like they've never been touched), they might surprise me, relative to my very expensive GEC tubes of the same type.
  
 Food for thought...


----------



## thecrow

krutsch said:


> On that note, don't be afraid to try some "lesser" tubes. I am listening, as I type this, to an RCA 6AS7g in my Woo WA3 that the seller listed as pegging the tube tester (120/120). I took a chance at $49.00 for the pair and they are extremely clean sounding with smooth tonality. As they burn-in (these look like they've never been touched), they might surprise me, relative to my very expensive GEC tubes of the same type.
> 
> Food for thought...



Interesting you wrote that. 

I sometimes listen to my non high-end tubes that have less detail and might be a bit punchier or a little warmer/softer on my wa2 (which is not that "tubey" for me) when i want something different or am sussing out new equipment. Eg some norne cables right now. 

But it doesn't take me that long to go back to my best most detailed tubes. Obviously that's because of my preferences towards detail, as long as everything else in in balance as far as my standards are concerned. 

I probably listen to my best tubes 90-95% of the time. I'm happy i have a handful of others for those other few times. 

So i've found its better to have less tubes if that means grabbing YOUR special ones if they fit the budget. 

Having said that i have been seeking opinions on detailed 6dj8's with a touch or warmth - there goes another few bucks soon


----------



## Krutsch

^^ Yes... agreed. I am going to let these burn-in for a week or two and then flip back-in the WE 421a to see how they compare.
  
 For a nice, warm 6DJ8-compatible tube: Amperex 7308 PQ Whites. I have a set and they are warmer, more tubey, then my more commonly used Telefunken or Siemens.
  
Here's a set on eSlay. Wallet will dilate in 3.. 2.. 1..


----------



## marek17

It will be compatible tube 6n6p with WA2? I saw 6n5p in list.


----------



## eschell27

Thanks for all the info guys! 
 I have a pair of RCA 6as7g that i actually really like so far, my faves as of yet. Given i only have rca 6080, ge 6080 (stock came with wa2) thomson-csf 6080 and the rca 6as7g to compare thus far. ( all of which i got with the year old wa2 i just bought second hand other than the thomson, which i got a pair NOS for $35 )
 Pretty happy with the RCA 6as7g but i want to hear something closer to the top of the food chain to see where my tastes are heading. Im okay with spending around $250 for a set of very nice power tubes, seems like a worth while compromise instead of spending $500+ on gec 6as7g right now. 
  
 Have a NOS pair of rft ez80 coming from bulgaria in the next few weeks i hope. Replaced my stock 6922 with some Mullard yellow labeled ECC88 that i got for a really fair price, also getting a pair of rb2013's Holy Grail 1975 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields at a very fair price to try out.
  
 Right now i'm listening with RCA 6as7g / Mullard ECC88 / Amperex ez81 (unfortunately the only rectifiers that came with it were these Amperex, electro-harmonix ez81/6ca4 and what i think were the stock... Westinghouse 6ca4...can't wait for the rft ez80 to get here. Considered grabbing a pair of Ei ez80. Heard great things about the Brimar as well... Someone offered me a pair of Philips Miniwatt ez80 for $75 but wasn't very interested as i haven't seen much about them on here)
  
 My journey into rolling continues!
  
 **Edit**
 OOOPS almost forgot... someone offered to trade me a pair of Phillips Miniwatt E88CC Holland SQ (7Ldelta5C4 date code) but in the few minutes i spent looking around for info on them last night didn't turn much up...anyone have experience with them or something similar? If so what do you think? What are they like?


----------



## thecrow

eschell27
The miniwatt e88cc would be (very) similar to the amperex bugle boys. Decent, soft, rolled off at the top. Good option in that softer style for a cheap but well priced pair. Maybe about $50 per pair

The delta means they were produced in the herleen factory that everyone talkd about.


----------



## Oskari

If it's the same type, same factory, same vintage; it's the same tube. Brand is only paint.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 ive come back for more info. 

Im still contemplating mew 6dj8 tubes for my wa 2 with gec6as7g tubes and hd800. 

Im trying to decide between the tele e188cc, philips holland e188cc and amperex military 7308. And what to draw on your experience

I've recently picked up a silver cable and hence start off with a VERY detailed sound with a great tight bottom end and great extension on the upper end. The treble is under contril re harshness. 

However what im looking for is to maintain a high level of detail but to thicken the tone around the upper mids. 

My reaearch is suggesting that the siemens and tele e188cc may be in the wrong direction. And the holland tubes might be better. As mentioned previously i do have some mid 70's soemens cca. I don't fond them too bright but that's where i want a little more weight in that upper mids. So does that make sense that the holland tubes are the way to go?

Also is there a difference betwen philips and valvo tubes. The valvos seem quite cheaper

Thanks


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> @billerb1 ive come back for more info.
> 
> Im still contemplating mew 6dj8 tubes for my wa 2 with gec6as7g tubes and hd800.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not familiar with silver headphone cables...mine are Moon Audio Black Dragon copper.  And I'm on T1's and you're on HD800s.  So I'm not sure that I'm really going to be able to add anything of worth.  I think I'm kind of like you though...I want as much detail as I can get but as time goes on it seems like I search more for as much timbre/resonance per note as I can.  I'll give up a touch of detail for that sense of natural tone...the real sound of the instrument.  I want it big and full and round and pulsating...not a 2D painting.  Like with these Marconi rectifiers...I'm torn between what is seeming the more I listen somewhat of a choice between what I was just talking about...touch more detail with the sacrifice of just a touch of tonality.  Tough decision in this case.
 As to your question.  On paper I'd agree that the philips holland E188CC would seem the way to go...I would think that choice would turn out well if you got a good pair...even better if you lucked into an exceptional pair.  It's hard for me not to recommend the Tele E188CC's because I'm  getting SO much engagement from them now.  Especially the guitar solos...oh my god.  I have never felt as inside the music as they seem to take me.  I too expected them to be somewhat clinical and not as tonally rich...but this pair delievers all the tone that my PW's do and then create this perfect musical space for what I  listen for.  Can't explain it but that's it.  The Amperex 7308's I'm assuming are the American mades.  To me they are very raw sounding...great live sounding tubes but with an edge.  And that's with me listening through copper and not silver.  That would seem by far the biggest gamble  of your 3 choices.
 For what it' worth...
  
 EDIT:  As to Philips vs Valvo...I've found no difference if they are both Heerlen made.  The German made Valvos seem a bit hot and congested to me by comparison...but I know some on  the thread here prefer them.


----------



## jhljhl

ru4music said:


> ​Looking forward to your observations.
> 
> I wouldn't really discard any of the tubes I listed.  To me, it really depends on the engineering attributes of a recording and the particular system platform that makes a potential top-tier tube stand-out.  It almost comes down to a level of convenience; which tube will give me the most overall satisfaction based on the media I have to listen to without having to swap out tubes and headphones.


 

 The we396a with 6sn7 adapters are musical and transparent with tight bass and nice detail. I recommend them.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Not familiar with silver headphone cables...mine are Moon Audio Black Dragon copper.  And I'm on T1's and you're on HD800s.  So I'm not sure that I'm really going to be able to add anything of worth.  I think I'm kind of like you though...I want as much detail as I can get but as time goes on it seems like I search more for as much timbre/resonance per note as I can.  I'll give up a touch of detail for that sense of natural tone...the real sound of the instrument.  I want it big and full and round and pulsating...not a 2D painting.  Like with these Marconi rectifiers...I'm torn between what is seeming the more I listen somewhat of a choice between what I was just talking about...touch more detail with the sacrifice of just a touch of tonality.  Tough decision in this case.
> As to your question.  On paper I'd agree that the philips holland E188CC would seem the way to go...I would think that choice would turn out well if you got a good pair...even better if you lucked into an exceptional pair.  It's hard for me not to recommend the Tele E188CC's because I'm  getting SO much engagement from them now.  Especially the guitar solos...oh my god.  I have never felt as inside the music as they seem to take me.  I too expected them to be somewhat clinical and not as tonally rich...but this pair delievers all the tone that my PW's do and then create this perfect musical space for what I  listen for.  Can't explain it but that's it.  The Amperex 7308's I'm assuming are the American mades.  To me they are very raw sounding...great live sounding tubes but with an edge.  And that's with me listening through copper and not silver.  That would seem by far the biggest gamble  of your 3 choices.
> For what it' worth...
> 
> EDIT:  As to Philips vs Valvo...I've found no difference if they are both Heerlen made.  The German made Valvos seem a bit hot and congested to me by comparison...but I know some on  the thread here prefer them.




Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate and enjoyed reading what you meant re guitar solos. 

I think im going to end up with a philips e188cc. Perhaps from brent jessee to ensure its a good pair.

Because my system has the hd800 treble in check for my ears the silver cable from norne that i have really brings up the detail to another level. Definitely no placebo on that. 

As you kind of mentioned i love getting to a high level of detail through various components and tweaking the sound to a preferred tone from there. I think of it as starting with a big block of clay and then sculpting the sound from there. 

Thanks also for an update on the rectifier. I


----------



## MIKELAP

jhljhl said:


> ru4music said:
> 
> 
> > ​Looking forward to your observations.
> ...


 
 Arent you using these adapters  in the WA2


----------



## Krutsch

krutsch said:


> ^^ Yes... agreed. I am *going to let these (GEC 6AS7g) burn-in for a week or two and then flip back-in the WE 421a* to see how they compare.


 
  
 No comparison. Good to be home.


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> Arent you using these adapters  in the WA2


 

 Yes, here are the ones I purchased:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-plated-5670-6n3-WE396A-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp-/191636111735?hash=item2c9e670177:g:~IoAAOSw~OVWwGvh


----------



## MIKELAP

ru4music said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Arent you using these adapters  in the WA2
> ...


 
 Ah ok i was wondering  might try the other adapters with 6sn7 base in WA22 .


----------



## billerb1

Unloading my flotilla of EZ80's and will give first shot to the good people on this thread before I post them in the For Sale Forum.
 All were supposedly NOS or near NOS when I bought them and I've put no more than 100 hours on any of these pairs.  I have no tester to verify.  I'll sell the pairs for the price posted here plus $12 for USPS Priority shipping.  I'll eat the Paypal fee.
 Here's the list.  I'll mark them as SOLD as it happens.  All are EZ80's.
  
 Philips/Amperex (Holland) D-Getters   $49
 Lorenz D-Getters (not SEL's)  $49
 Brimar D-Getters   $60   ***SOLD***                              PRICES REDUCED !!!
 RFT  O-Getters     $39
 Rogers D-Getters  $39
 EI  O-Getters        $39
  
 PM me if interested.  CONUS only.


----------



## jhljhl

mikelap said:


> Ah ok i was wondering  might try the other adapters with 6sn7 base in WA22 .


 
 These work for me: 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/281960489973?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Unloading my flotilla of EZ80's and will give first shot to the good people on this thread before I post them in the For Sale Forum.
> All were supposedly NOS or near NOS when I bought them and I've put no more than 100 hours on any of these pairs.  I have no tester to verify.  I'll sell the pairs for the price posted here plus $12 for USPS Priority shipping.  I'll eat the Paypal fee.
> Here's the list.  I'll mark them as SOLD as it happens.  All are EZ80's.
> 
> ...



Does that mean the u709's are coming in well?


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> Does that mean the u709's are coming in well?


 
  
 Still burning in and jury is still out for me.  They 'feel' like a more powerful rectifier and in that sense a bit more revealing.  But with that comes a bit 'hotter' sound to me.  That might ease with burn-in but right now I prefer the Holland Miniwatt EZ81 with a bit more depth of tone.
 The Minis presently are allowing more blackness, separation between instruments...a less congested, if a bit less detailed, sound.
 So maybe what I'm saying is if you prefer the WE 421A or TS 5998 sound (to me) I think the Marconis are a no brainer.  If you prefer the more delicate/elegant or a bit more relaxed sound signature like the GEC 6AS7G's, they might not be the best synergy.
 Lol, at least that's where I am today.


----------



## ru4music

ru4music said:


> ​Disclaimer: Still testing, but here are my present thoughts!
> 
> I'm really liking the WE 396A *ALOT*, I'm listening to them right now.  They are very musical and at the same time provide great detail and imaging/ sound staging with a good extension range from top to bottom.  They also play everything well whatever the quality of the recording (within reason of course.)  They are definitely a top-tier tube based on my WA2 setup and listening experience.  I have yet to find a genre of music (e.g. Rock, Blues, Jazz, Classical etc.) where they have failed me. I had initially thought that they may (at some point) have a congestion issue when playing complex passages of music, but this has not been the case.  In fact, I have been highly impressed by the balance of tonality, musicality, clarity, and detail retrieval during complex music iterations (may be the best I've heard so far on my platform.)
> 
> ...


 
  

As a followup, I have done A/B/C comparisons and stand behind my initial impressions from the above referenced driver tubes.  *I highly recommend the WE 396A's (tested with TS 5998/ Brimar EZ80) in the WA2!*  They resolve great detail, have speed, musicality, and tonality and play all the genres of music well.  They seem to bring that Western Electric sonic signature to the presentation (a good thing!)  The tonality (timbre) is the best I have heard on certain instruments (e.g. acoustic piano, electric guitar, strings etc.)


----------



## koven

hi all, off topic to tubes but just wondering if any fellow WA2 owners found good headphone pairings w/ brands other than Senn/Beyer. Are there other high impedance headphones that are suitable? I have tried AKG and HF but found they paired poorly w/ an OTL amp. Are we basically limited to Beyer/Senn headphones..?   I hope to get the Elear next so I'm wondering if I should pickup a SS amp to complement, maybe a Burson.


----------



## thecrow

koven said:


> hi all, off topic to tubes but just wondering if any fellow WA2 owners found good headphone pairings w/ brands other than Senn/Beyer. Are there other high impedance headphones that are suitable? I have tried AKG and HF but found they paired poorly w/ an OTL amp. Are we basically limited to Beyer/Senn headphones..?   I hope to get the Elear next so I'm wondering if I should pickup a SS amp to complement, maybe a Burson.



I had a similar question a while ago but did not get much response. 

I have found lower impedance headphones sometimes have a loose or flabby bottom end. However the he500 sounded decent and my focal spirit pros and x2 sounded absolutely fine/good (bottom wnd included) when i used some eq. 

However i found i was eqing them towards what i get with my beloved hd800 (which my whole system is built around) so i figured, what's the point?

I also tried eqing the fostex th500rp but the bottom end did not come up well enough.


----------



## marek17

I recently ordered a pair Amperex 6922 with gold pins, tubes were Faulty and unserviceable. I sent them back to the seller (Billington Export LTD)

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAPtKViASk4[/VIDEO]
[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5SofG5RWnE[/VIDEO]

Other tubes that I bought from a friend in this forum are usable.


My combination of tubes: 2x Ei EZ80 + 2x TungSol 5998 + 2x Amperex 6922 PQ


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> As a followup, I have done A/B/C comparisons and stand behind my initial impressions from the above referenced driver tubes.  *I highly recommend the WE 396A's (tested with TS 5998/ Brimar EZ80) in the WA2!*  They resolve great detail, have speed, musicality, and tonality and play all the genres of music well.  They seem to bring that Western Electric sonic signature to the presentation (a good thing!)  The tonality (timbre) is the best I have heard on certain instruments (e.g. acoustic piano, electric guitar, strings etc.)


 

 The WE396A is a Woo compatible driver tube?
  
 As in, a direct replacement for the the 6922/6DJ8?


----------



## ru4music

marek17 said:


> I recently ordered a pair Amperex 6922 with gold pins, tubes were Faulty and unserviceable. I sent them back to the seller (Billington Export LTD)
> 
> Other tubes that I bought from a friend in this forum are usable.
> 
> ...


 
 That tube combination should give you a lot of sonic capability.  The PQ Whites are very good (more detail, timbre etc.) and the Bugle Boys are very musical.  The Phillips JAN 6922 never grew on me when I had them in my WA3, they seem to do everything mediocre.  What headphones are you using?
  
 BTW, don't do what I watched you do on your video with you headphones anymore, you will damage or blow them out!


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> The WE396A is a Woo compatible driver tube?
> 
> As in, a direct replacement for the the 6922/6DJ8?


 

 No, it needs a 6N3 to ECC88 adapter.  Here is one that I purchase from Ecrap:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-plated-5670-6n3-WE396A-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp-/191636111735?hash=item2c9e670177:g:~IoAAOSw~OVWwGvh
  
 I will say that (by ear) the WE396A seems a very good match for the existing WA2 bias circuitry and appears to have a close to optimal Class A quiescent operating current (i.e. it's setup correctly for the best sound.)


----------



## MIKELAP

krutsch said:


> ru4music said:
> 
> 
> > As a followup, I have done A/B/C comparisons and stand behind my initial impressions from the above referenced driver tubes.  *I highly recommend the WE 396A's (tested with TS 5998/ Brimar EZ80) in the WA2!*  They resolve great detail, have speed, musicality, and tonality and play all the genres of music well.  They seem to bring that Western Electric sonic signature to the presentation (a good thing!)  The tonality (timbre) is the best I have heard on certain instruments (e.g. acoustic piano, electric guitar, strings etc.)
> ...


 
 You need adapters for the 396A           http://www.ebay.com/itm/201637263159?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## marek17

and tube setting/ any changes when you set such a combination tubes? :

1./2x Yugoslavia Ei Ez-80 + 2xTungsol 5998 + 2x Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boys
or
2./2x Yugoslavia Ei Ez-80 + 2xSylviana 7236 + 2x Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boys
or
3./2x Yugoslavia Ei Ez-80 + 2xSylviana 7236 + 2x Amperex 6922 PQ
or 
4./ Ei Ez80 + Tungsol 5998 + russian 6N1P

music do I listen via Sennheiser HD 25-II because Beyerdynamic T1 I sent for repair to the Czech Republic replaced the drivers.(Elvia Praha Servis).
T1

T1 required replaced the drivers with new ones.
I'm thinking I should Elvia could rewire headphones (ballanced mode).
As it has 2gen T1 or HD800.


----------



## ru4music

@MIKELAP Can you publish the current capabilities of the WA2 again?  I can't seem to find them.


----------



## MIKELAP

ru4music said:


> @MIKELAP Can you publish the current capabilities of the WA2 again?  I can't seem to find them.


----------



## ru4music

marek17 said:


> and tube setting/ any changes when you set such a combination tubes? :
> 
> 1./2x Yugoslavia Ei Ez-80 + 2xTungsol 5998 + 2x Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boys
> or
> ...


 
 Based on the Max. filament current ratings provided by @MIKELAP (per Woo Audio) below, all those tube combinations should be OK to use in the WA2.
  


mikelap said:


>


 
 Thanks Mike!


----------



## MIKELAP

Anybody try 4 6bl7's in there WA2 ?


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> Anybody try 4 6bl7's in there WA2 ?


 

 Yes, same arrangement with the same adapters.  I prefer the 6SN7 to the 6DJ8 type drivers for the 6BL7, noting that  I haven't tried the WE396A(s) yet.  It's a nice sound but I still prefer the TS5998 most of the time:


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> Unloading my flotilla of EZ80's and will give first shot to the good people on this thread before I post them in the For Sale Forum.
> All were supposedly NOS or near NOS when I bought them and I've put no more than 100 hours on any of these pairs.  I have no tester to verify.  I'll sell the pairs for the price posted here plus $12 for USPS Priority shipping.  I'll eat the Paypal fee.
> Here's the list.  I'll mark them as SOLD as it happens.  All are EZ80's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 NEW JUST-REDUCED PRICES (per pair):
 Philips/Amperex (Holland) D-Getters   $39
 Lorenz D-Getters (not SEL's)  $29
 Brimar D-Getters   $60   ***SOLD***
 RFT  O-Getters     $29 
 Rogers D-Getters  $29
 EI  O-Getters        $29
  
 PM ME IF INTERESTED


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> Anybody try 4 6bl7's in there WA2 ?


 

 Mike, how do you like the 6BL7's in the WA2?


----------



## ru4music

billerb1 said:


> NEW JUST-REDUCED PRICES (per pair):
> Philips/Amperex (Holland) D-Getters   $39
> Lorenz D-Getters (not SEL's)  $29
> Brimar D-Getters   $60   ***SOLD***
> ...


 
  
 WA2 owners if you need some backup rectifier tubes you should jump at those prices that Bill recently just lowered (AGAIN!) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Bill, when are we going to see those U709(s) listed for $29 a pair??


----------



## MIKELAP

ru4music said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody try 4 6bl7's in there WA2 ?
> ...


 
 If i compare 2- 6BL7 /channel to 1-6bl7/channel to me sound is fuller warmer not as thin with 2 tubes / channel of course YMMV. and since the WA2 is good for 3.5A/channel and 2 6bl7 are rated at 3A i feel its safer to use in my WA2 rather than in my WA22 which is rated at 3A/ channel but again im no expert it just my feeling. The tube complement im using right now is 4 RCA 3 mica  6BL7, as drivers a pair of KENRAD black glass 6SN7GT VT-231 and as rectifiers a pair of RFT EZ81 with Senns HD800 .


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> If i compare 2- 6BL7 /channel to 1-6bl7/channel to me sound is fuller warmer not as thin with 2 tubes / channel of course YMMV. and since the WA2 is good for 3.5A/channel and 2 6bl7 are rated at 3A i feel its safer to use in my WA2 rather than in my WA22 which is rated at 3A/ channel but again im no expert it just my feeling. The tube complement im using right now is 4 RCA 3 mica  6BL7, as drivers a pair of KENRAD black glass 6SN7GT VT-231 and as rectifiers a pair of RFT EZ81 with Senns HD800 .


 

 Yes, I believe that I experienced the same.  I like the 6bl7 sound, it reminds me of that good'ole sounding jukebox that is full and lush.  However, I find that I get tired of its presentation sooner and head back towards the more "referenced" quality sound signature of the T5998 and WE396A drivers.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





ru4music said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > If i compare 2- 6BL7 /channel to 1-6bl7/channel to me sound is fuller warmer not as thin with 2 tubes / channel of course YMMV. and since the WA2 is good for 3.5A/channel and 2 6bl7 are rated at 3A i feel its safer to use in my WA2 rather than in my WA22 which is rated at 3A/ channel but again im no expert it just my feeling. The tube complement im using right now is 4 RCA 3 mica  6BL7, as drivers a pair of KENRAD black glass 6SN7GT VT-231 and as rectifiers a pair of RFT EZ81 with Senns HD800 .
> ...


 
 Expecting  some well regarded + decently priced  RCA Command 5670 and some jan 5670 tubes +the adapters will see how that sounds


----------



## Lucifigus

I am strongly considering ordering a WA2 as my first tube amp.  Having done a little reading on this forum, I am shopping for some of the "standard" tube upgrades.  I encountered this on the Bay...
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1311.R1.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.XCCa+.TRS0&_nkw=cca+tube&_sacat=0
  
 There are a number of offers of what appears to be the Siemens CCa, which is highly lauded here.  However, the seller has them (perhaps) erroneously referred to as 6299, but in the detailed description it's 6922.  For the folks here who know, do these appear legit as the Siemens CCa for use as driver tubes for the WA2?
  
  
 Lucifigus


----------



## Thenewguy007

Never heard of 6299 (might be another European renaming), but the description also lists it as E88CC, which is a 6922 variant.
Tubes also look legit.


----------



## Lucifigus

thenewguy007 said:


> Never heard of 6299 (might be another European renaming), but the description also lists it as E88CC, which is a 6922 variant.
> Tubes also look legit.


 
 Thanks.  I have ordered the WA2, and I have also ordered a few pair of driver tubes that are less expensive.  I guess I'll see if I think I need these premium tubes.
  
 Lucifigus


----------



## eschell27

It's been about two months since i got my WA2. Sounded great when i got it with just the RCA 6as7g/Amperex ez81/stock 6922 the previous owner sent it with. But or course i had to try to find my favorite combo of tubes. Decided to start on the lower end price wise with a plan on working my way up the line, first grabbed a pair of Thomson 6080wa's since they had a pretty good reputation and are super cheap (think i paid $35 shipped for an immaculate looking pair of NOS) they sound good but knew i was on a path to get TS 5998 or GEC 6as7g so i made the compromise and got the cheaper of the two (pair of TS 5998 NOS for $250 shipped, not the best but not worst price) They were a nice step up and really like them. Next wanted to get some good rectifiers found some good price and ended up with NOS pairs of Ei EZ80, RFT EZ80, and finally my favorite Brimar EZ80 black plate d getter. And now was time to get what seems to me the tubes that effect the sound quality the most...driver/preamp tubes. A friend had an NOS pair of Mullard 6dj8 which sounded much better than the stock 6922 from woo but were a little more warm than i was looking for at the time. Decided to PM rb2013 after reading his 6922 Tube Review thread to get his opinions on a few things and see if he maybe had any extra pairs laying around. Got lucky and he had a pair of his Holy Grail Reflektor '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields. ZINGGGGG POWWW BOOM I'm in love. By a large margin the best driver tubes i have heard. I plan to also grab a pair of NOS Amperex USN-CEP 7308's in the near future.
  
 It's been a fun journey so far. Been tweaking my chain lately also and have a nice setup for me thus far. I'm in audio heaven with: PC/Foobar > Supra usb cable > Regen > Curious Cable Regen Link > Singxer SU-1 > BJC bnc > DAC-19 set to NOS / PLL Disabled / Dithering disabled / -90dB Stopband ATT > BJC LC-1 > WA2 (TS 5998 / Brimar ez80 / '75 Reflektor) > T1 gen1 or HD650
 (Pangea AC 14se MkII power cords | i need some power conditioning now though)
  
 ~2 years years after finally giving in to my urges,  started purchasing quality equipment, here i am and couldn't be happier. (with lots of research done before purchases through HF... THANKS to everyone who contributes their experiences and knowledge) 
  
 Thus far, this tube combo is fantastic...anyone in a similar setup? What do you think? Where do you personally feel there could be room for improvement tube wise? In the 6922 Tube Review thread the Amperex USN-CEP 7308's seem to be highly regarded. Going to pay $180 shipped for an NOS "Platinum Matched" (Ha?!) pair. Seems about on par for a high quality pair of those tubes...
  
 Anywho... Thanks for all the info so far everyone!
  
 A no work in the morning relaxing thursday night listening session....


----------



## HiFiGuy528

eschell27 said:


> It's been about two months since i got my WA2. Sounded great when i got it with just the RCA 6as7g/Amperex ez81/stock 6922 the previous owner sent it with. But or course i had to try to find my favorite combo of tubes. Decided to start on the lower end price wise with a plan on working my way up the line, first grabbed a pair of Thomson 6080wa's since they had a pretty good reputation and are super cheap (think i paid $35 shipped for an immaculate looking pair of NOS) they sound good but knew i was on a path to get TS 5998 or GEC 6as7g so i made the compromise and got the cheaper of the two (pair of TS 5998 NOS for $250 shipped, not the best but not worst price) They were a nice step up and really like them. Next wanted to get some good rectifiers found some good price and ended up with NOS pairs of Ei EZ80, RFT EZ80, and finally my favorite Brimar EZ80 black plate d getter. And now was time to get what seems to me the tubes that effect the sound quality the most...driver/preamp tubes. A friend had an NOS pair of Mullard 6dj8 which sounded much better than the stock 6922 from woo but were a little more warm than i was looking for at the time. Decided to PM rb2013 after reading his 6922 Tube Review thread to get his opinions on a few things and see if he maybe had any extra pairs laying around. Got lucky and he had a pair of his Holy Grail Reflektor '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields. ZINGGGGG POWWW BOOM I'm in love. By a large margin the best driver tubes i have heard. I plan to also grab a pair of NOS Amperex USN-CEP 7308's in the near future.
> 
> It's been a fun journey so far. Been tweaking my chain lately also and have a nice setup for me thus far. I'm in audio heaven with: PC/Foobar > Supra usb cable > Regen > Curious Cable Regen Link > Singxer SU-1 > BJC bnc > DAC-19 set to NOS / PLL Disabled / Dithering disabled / -90dB Stopband ATT > BJC LC-1 > WA2 (TS 5998 / Brimar ez80 / '75 Reflektor) > T1 gen1 or HD650
> (Pangea AC 14se MkII power cords | i need some power conditioning now though)
> ...


 
  
 beautiful pics... Thanks for the listening impressions.


----------



## thecrow

A general question to the floor. 

I have a few various power tubes. I LOVE my gec 6as7g. I also have a pair of mullards for slightly warm/less bright listening and some 6080wb slotted graphite that add some weight when im in the mood. My gec6as7g tubes get used 90%+?of the time recently

But it is just me, or perhaps the tubes themselves, when i use my ts5998 theres nothing particularly significant about them and what they offer. I'm not saying they are bad at all but just lacking a point of distinction, particularly due to the fact i have the gec. 

I thought for a while they had some vibrant punch but now im not so sure. 

Any other opinions on these from those who also have tried/have various power tubes?


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> A general question to the floor.
> 
> I have a few various power tubes. I LOVE my gec 6as7g. I also have a pair of mullards for slightly warm/less bright listening and some 6080wb slotted graphite that add some weight when im in the mood. My gec6as7g tubes get used 90%+?of the time recently
> 
> ...


 

 What are you currently running for drivers, headphones and DAC?


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> Expecting  some well regarded + decently priced  RCA Command 5670 and some jan 5670 tubes +the adapters will see how that sounds


 

 Well Mike, don't keep us in suspense any longer; whats the verdict, like, dislike or MEH!(?)
  
 I'm still listening to the WE396a driver with the TS5998 and really liking them sometimes even more than the Holy Grail Reflektor '74 and '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields.


----------



## thecrow

ru4music said:


> What are you currently running for drivers, headphones and DAC?


Metrum hex dac, siemens cca, hd800

and sometimes bugleboys, sonetimes holland valvos e188cc


----------



## thecrow

Hi. 

I'm looking to pick up a pair of tele e188cc for my wa2

If anyone is interested in two of these quads for US$400 let me know. PM me

 I dont need all four

Thanks
http://m.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-LOT-OF-4-TELEFUNKEN-GERMANY-Hi-Fi-MATCHED-QUAD-TUBES-7308-CV4108-CCa-/252468634384?hash=item3ac84da310%3Ag%3A9tIAAOSwo6lWLdvs&_trkparms=pageci%253A39a74ca5-9b6b-11e6-80b6-74dbd1801bc5%257Cparentrq%253A00a4d1011580a2af06b98ea7fffa1958%257Ciid%253A4


----------



## Lucifigus

The information contained in this thread has helped me considerably...well, sort of.   I began ordering upgrade tubes for my WA2 before the amp arrived from Woo Audio.  I bit the bullet and bought a pair of TS 5998s; although not inexpensive, it was from reading information here that gave me the confidence that they were right for me.  I am also using EI EZ80 rectifier tubes.  I was lucky enough to land a pair of 1975 Voskhod Gray Shields (from a Head-Fier) for drivers.  All of this has improved the overall performance of the amp considerably.  I have the amp paired with a pair of Beyerdynamic T1s and I am pretty much over the moon with musical enjoyment.   Thanks to all for all the great advice.  .  Three months ago I didn’t know what tube rolling was.  Now, in addition to the stock tubes, I have two pair of power tubes, 7 pair of drivers, and two pair of rectifiers.  Darn good thing I have no spouse to complain.
  
 Lucifigus


----------



## Krutsch

lucifigus said:


>


 
  
 Love that photo... very cool presentation. What/where is the source?
  
 EDIT: I mean source component for music, not the photo.


----------



## Lucifigus

​I am upgrading (one step at a time), but currently it's my desktop computer and an older CD player running into a NAD D1050 and split to run into the WA2 and into an old Denon Receiver, out through Paradigm speakers and a sub woofer, in both the living room and the Kitchen.  I live in a small third floor flat with a downstairs neighbor, so headphones most of the time, but it's good to have tunes when you're cooking. 
  
 Lucifigus


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> Metrum hex dac, siemens cca, hd800
> 
> and sometimes bugleboys, sonetimes holland valvos e188cc


 

 I find in my system that the TS5998 has a little more musicality with the WE396A driver as opposed to a reference/ more analytical presentation with the driver types you mentioned above.  It all depends on the recording (and my preference at the moment) as to which one sounds best.


----------



## Krutsch

lucifigus said:


> ​I am upgrading (one step at a time), but currently it's *my desktop computer and an older CD player running into a NAD D1050 and split to run into the WA2* and into an old Denon Receiver, out through Paradigm speakers and a sub woofer, in both the living room and the Kitchen.  I live in a small third floor flat with a downstairs neighbor, so headphones most of the time, but it's good to have tunes when you're cooking.
> 
> Lucifigus


 
  
 I have a D1050 and while I am less a fan of the headphone amp, the DAC section is quite nice. With the WA2 with what looks like T1s, I don't see what you need to upgrade.


----------



## Lucifigus

krutsch said:


> I have a D1050 and while I am less a fan of the headphone amp, the DAC section is quite nice. With the WA2 with what looks like T1s, I don't see what you need to upgrade.


 

 ​On the headphone side of things, I feel no need to upgrade, but I would like to get back to my vinyl collection and this will require a new turntable.
  
 Lucifigus


----------



## thecrow

For those interested heres what i think is a well priced pair of usa amperex 7308 military pair 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/332018281691


----------



## Pawn

How much better does the wa2 sound over the wa6? Comparisons with decware and Eddie current?


----------



## eschell27

Got an excellent deal on a low hour pair of 60's (think 64/65) Amperex USN-CEP 7308's from another head-fi'er... had been wanting to try these out to compare to my '75 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields... don't know which i like better thus far paired with my T1 gen 1 and Gumby. Only been listening for a little bit so far... can tell they are excellent tubes though! Using them with TS 5998 and RFT EZ80.


----------



## ru4music

eschell27 said:


> Got an excellent deal on a low hour pair of 60's (think 64/65) Amperex USN-CEP 7308's from another head-fi'er... had been wanting to try these out to compare to my '75 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields... don't know which i like better thus far paired with my T1 gen 1 and Gumby. Only been listening for a little bit so far... can tell they are excellent tubes though! Using them with TS 5998 and RFT EZ80.


 
 Are they American or European manufactured?  The ones made in New York for that period are suppose to be some of the best.  Keep us posted....


----------



## eschell27

ru4music said:


> Are they American or European manufactured?  The ones made in New York for that period are suppose to be some of the best.  Keep us posted....


 
  
 Yes they are "Made in U.S.A."


----------



## thecrow

eschell27 said:


> Got an excellent deal on a low hour pair of 60's (think 64/65) Amperex USN-CEP 7308's from another head-fi'er... had been wanting to try these out to compare to my '75 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields... don't know which i like better thus far paired with my T1 gen 1 and Gumby. Only been listening for a little bit so far... can tell they are excellent tubes though! Using them with TS 5998 and RFT EZ80.


I think they are an underrated tube. 

Quite neutral. A touch of warmth in their nature. For me.....the lower end is a little like the holland tubes but more air and detail on the top end. A good well priced alternative from the holland tubes.

I find my reflektors to be nicely detailed, from memory perhaps extended or a touch more focus on the top end than the amperex 7308 but on the cleaner/linear side of neutral. Just short of being bright. Maybe mot "musical" in nature but more neutral (again) with good "flow" as rb2013 had stated

Thats my take on these creatures


----------



## Flisker

Hey guys,
  
   I have had WA2 for quite some time and I love it. Unfortunately it seems that my power tubes are dying, since I'm getting some ringing which comes and goes and is extremely irritating* so I'm looking for a replacement. Could you guys share some tips with me please *?
  
 ps: Right now, I've got 2399 Tung Sol/Chathams which from my research should be similar as 5998's. and for driver tubes I'm using Siemens CCa's which are absolutely wonderful.
  
 Thanks a lot, Flisker o/


----------



## polarbearjorin

F.Y.I. From woo audio Owner's Manual
http://tinyurl.com/4wbv5qn


----------



## MIKELAP

Hi selling my WA2 Rectifiers tubes if interested here's a link to FOR SALE forum .Thanks                                                                                         http://www.head-fi.org/t/840041/wa2-rectifiers-telefunken-ez80-rft-ez80-and-ez81-ects


----------



## billerb1

flisker said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I started with the TS5998's (which I think is what you have) and was very happy with their detail and extension but over time felt that they in a certain way 'overpowered' the WA2. I took a recommendation from a fellow head-fi'er and tried the TS7236's and felt that they presented a bit more relaxed sound. I used them for about 6 months and liked them a lot. I then had an opportunity to sample the GEC 6080's from a friend and fell in love with the purity (only word I can think of to describe them) of the GEC sound. Loved the sound so much I took out a 2nd mortgage and bought a pair of GEC 6AS7G's, which is the GEC 6080's on steroids. Have never looked back.
BTW, like you I use the Siemens grey shield Cca's (also Telefunken E188CC's) and they are a fantastic pairing with the GEC 6AS7Gs.
Good luck.


----------



## ru4music

flisker said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have had WA2 for quite some time and I love it. Unfortunately it seems that my power tubes are dying, since I'm getting some *ringing* which comes and goes and is extremely irritating* so I'm looking for a replacement. Could you guys share some tips with me please *?
> 
> ...


 
 What your describing may be caused by tube microphonics.  I have a pair of Tung Sol (graphite plate) 6080WB tubes which have done the same thing and seem to be more sensitive then my other power tubes.  A pair of Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s paired with these 6080s extenuated the problem and a different set of driver tubes (likely not an option for you) fixed the oscillation.  My point is you may be able to use tube dampers or experiment with washers on the tubes (etc.) to help control the situation.


----------



## eschell27

I'm still looking for GEC 6080's if someone has a pair they would part with, i assumed maybe a few people who upgraded to the GEC 6as7g's would have a pair not being used


----------



## Flisker

ru4music said:


> What your describing may be caused by tube microphonics.  I have a pair of Tung Sol (graphite plate) 6080WB tubes which have done the same thing and seem to be more sensitive then my other power tubes.  A pair of Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s paired with these 6080s extenuated the problem and a different set of driver tubes (likely not an option for you) fixed the oscillation.  My point is you may be able to use tube dampers or experiment with washers on the tubes (etc.) to help control the situation.


 
  
 Got some new driver tubes today, so I'll do some more testing, but I think it's the tube dying because it didn't do any noises before. It was perfectly silent. Thanks for tips.


----------



## Flisker

billerb1 said:


> flisker said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys,
> ...


 
  
 Thank for reply, it's very helpful. May I ask where did you get the GEC GAS7G's and for how much ?


----------



## billerb1

I took out a 2nd mortgage and bought a pair of GEC 6AS7G's, which is the GEC 6080's on steroids. Have never looked back.

BTW, like you I use the Siemens grey shield Cca's (also Telefunken E188CC's) and they are a fantastic pairing with the GEC 6AS7Gs.

Good luck.


 


Thank for reply, it's very helpful. May I ask where did you get the GEC GAS7G's and for how much ?

 


Head-fi'er Franatic turned me on to this dealer in England. I've posted about them here before. They are the BEST for hard to find tubes.
Owner's name is Kef Tesfaye and can be reached at contact@valvetubes.com
Price for pair of GEC6AS7Gs will depend on condition and supply...probably a hair south of $600 for a NOS or near NOS pair. But it's been quite awhile since I bought mine...so who knows.


----------



## billerb1 (May 21, 2017)

Couple good looking pairs of GEC6AS7G's on ebay right now.  Not cheap but pretty much the going rate for NOS or near NOS pairs (when you can find them...which ain't often easy). 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-PAIR-...671018?hash=item2cbe34796a:g:b8oAAOSwN6JZAPps

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-GEC-6AS...897797?hash=item4402366e85:g:8OoAAOSwSypY~Rjq


----------



## zackzack

Can you use these Takatsukis as Power tubes in WA2?


----------



## zackzack

A little help with my WA2:

If the bass is a little too diffused or thick, which tubes you need to upgrade? The rectifier or the power?


----------



## billerb1

zackzack said:


> A little help with my WA2:
> 
> If the bass is a little too diffused or thick, which tubes you need to upgrade? The rectifier or the power?



All three types of tubes will have an impact from my experience.  Switching to TS5998's or GEC6AS7G's would certainly firm up the bass of RCA's for example with your power tubes I would think.
Switching from Mullards as your driver tubes to Telefunken or Siemens would help as well.  So many combinations...


----------



## thecrow

Just wanted to check here re the gec 6as7g

Am i right in thinking the a1834 labeled tubes are a slightky better grade than the cv2423 and 6as7g of all these brown base gec tubes?

I read it a while ago but cant find or remeber it

And a z code, i think, meant hammersmith factory.  
Does that carry any weight?

Thanks for any help


----------



## maheeinfy

Planning to run my WA2 as a pre-amp only. Can anyone let me know what tubes are involved in the pre-amp signal chain?

Is it all tubes? or just the rectifiers? or something else

Thanks!


----------



## Franatic

maheeinfy said:


> Planning to run my WA2 as a pre-amp only. Can anyone let me know what tubes are involved in the pre-amp signal chain?
> 
> Is it all tubes? or just the rectifiers? or something else
> 
> Thanks!



maheeinfy, all the tubes matter when using the pre-amp out. I dual task my WA2 as a pre and headphone amp and love it. The better the tubes, the better it sounds.
Here is my tube assessment for the WA2
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations.393811/page-44#post-12308869
Sorry for the long time delay in an answer, haven't been here in awhile and I'm not getting notifications like I should.


----------



## maheeinfy

Franatic said:


> maheeinfy, all the tubes matter when using the pre-amp out. I dual task my WA2 as a pre and headphone amp and love it. The better the tubes, the better it sounds.
> Here is my tube assessment for the WA2
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations.393811/page-44#post-12308869
> Sorry for the long time delay in an answer, haven't been here in awhile and I'm not getting notifications like I should.



Thanks! i almost forgot i posted this


----------



## koven

i'm looking to get amperex 6922, are the made in usa or holland better? any big difference?


----------



## thecrow (Jul 19, 2017)

from personal experience of owning all the below mentioned tubes:

usa are more neutral - a bit cleaner in sound in a neutral kinda way (not that the holland tubes are dirty). a bit more air in the treble range. not sharp or aggressive in the highs at all - just more space and slightly more open than  the holland tubes. in a nutshell a good neutral sound with good space from top to bottom. i would recommend paying a few extra dollars for the usncep (military) 7308 tubes over the 6922. not a lot more but just a bit higher in price than the 6922 and easily worth it

on the other hand the holland tubes have a bit more of a richer warmer tone. the better ones (e188cc and e88cc) are not overly warm or woolly in sound. just on the warmer side of neutral (or a tad more than that). very inviting tubes. not as much air as the usa tubes but i would not consider these congested either. the top end is still good but there is a real sweetness to the mids and lower end.

the usa tubes are like a nicely grilled lean steak or fish. the holland and more like a rich steak with a nice sauce or gravy on it

usa are more neutral and analytical but not overly done. great detail
holland rich tones but not congested or closed in. musical and versatile. very good detail

both would work with your hd600 i would think

in the holland tubes the e188cc can be great, the e88cc are good but the ecc88 are a bit closed in.
i had valvo tubes in these categories.


(the holland bugle boys 6dj8 are a good cheap alternative (a little rolled off but the mids aren't as sweet as the holland tubes above). i would probably place these above the ecc88 that i mentioned for space...perhaps just)

with all these tubes i have always looked for early to mid 1960's


----------



## koven

thanks for the helpful details, much appreciated


----------



## thecrow

koven said:


> thanks for the helpful details, much appreciated


Theres aso heaps of info on these threads

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-873#post-13610044

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/6...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/


----------



## koven

thecrow said:


> Theres aso heaps of info on these threads
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-873#post-13610044
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/6...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/



thanks for the links. i ended up ordering this one below since you said the hollands were a bit richer/warmer. ive been using the stock 6922 so hope its a nice upgrade.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-NOS-PAIR-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-GOLD-PIN-TUBES-MATCHED-PAIR-6922-CCA-6DJ8-RARE-/401353110870?nma=true&si=yUT4cmlmPvhYvri%2B0YsydYyGE0Q%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## thecrow

S


koven said:


> thanks for the links. i ended up ordering this one below since you said the hollands were a bit richer/warmer. ive been using the stock 6922 so hope its a nice upgrade.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-NOS-PAIR-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-GOLD-PIN-TUBES-MATCHED-PAIR-6922-CCA-6DJ8-RARE-/401353110870?nma=true&si=yUT4cmlmPvhYvri%2B0YsydYyGE0Q%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



I haven't seen that type of letter face before on ana amperex tube myself (the e88cc part). If you want more info on what its origins might be then a few of the members on the lyr thread can be very useful on that. 

I have noticed that the buyer you bought those from has had some "interesting" tube listings in the past that i would not touch. Eg tungsol/chatham 5998 that appeared to be russian tubes so i usually loom elsewhere....maybe that's just me but he has been mentioned a  few times a while ago on this or similar threads from memory

i hope the tubes come up well


----------



## koven

thecrow said:


> S
> 
> 
> I haven't seen that type of letter face before on ana amperex tube myself (the e88cc part). If you want more info on what its origins might be then a few of the members on the lyr thread can be very useful on that.
> ...



i'll check in that thread. i googled his seller name and there are some folks advising not to deal with him. which ebay sellers or websites do you recommend or use personally?


----------



## thecrow

koven said:


> i'll check in that thread. i googled his seller name and there are some folks advising not to deal with him. which ebay sellers or websites do you recommend or use personally?


Ive bought my tubes almost always from sellers with an extensive (or at least a moderately long) history that seem pretty straight up.

You'll see a lot of respected and eatablished sellers mentioned on that lyr thread. A return policy of some deacription ia always nice to see. 

Also watch out for this guy who has a few different accounts on ebay. Some of his sold tubes have.been known to go missing. These tubes if authentic are usually sold for $600 plus so it already looks smelly
http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/2x-great-t...%3A5f43903915d0ab450b120147fffe1c6c%7Ciid%3A2

A lot of the more established sellers you'll see having quite a few tubes on sale at the same time or recently and you'll get fair idea. 

Unfortunately it seems ebay protects some sellers from negative feedback at times so great feedback is never foolproof

In the oast ive also just goigled the sellers name and headfi to see what pops up in the threads


----------



## billerb1

If you're looking to try the TS7236's on the cheap, these might be a steal...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-TUN...372768?hash=item4408150a60:g:reAAAOSwXQZZdRTD


----------



## billerb1

koven said:


> thanks for the links. i ended up ordering this one below since you said the hollands were a bit richer/warmer. ive been using the stock 6922 so hope its a nice upgrade.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-NOS-PAIR-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-GOLD-PIN-TUBES-MATCHED-PAIR-6922-CCA-6DJ8-RARE-/401353110870?nma=true&si=yUT4cmlmPvhYvri%2B0YsydYyGE0Q%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



Hope you like the tubes but know that you could've gotten a pair of prime Holland E188CC's, which I much prefer over the E88CC's, for at least $50 less than you paid for these.
Always a good idea to go slow.......


----------



## samuelnsh

billerb1 said:


> If you're looking to try the TS7236's on the cheap, these might be a steal...
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-TUN...372768?hash=item4408150a60:g:reAAAOSwXQZZdRTD


The seller says in the description the tubes aren't tested though. If I just order two, is there a high chance that they aren't matched tubes? At such case, each channel would sound different right?

(New to the game, sorry if these questions are elementary!)


----------



## OldSkool

I've been running TS5998, TF EZ80 and Mullard CV4109 for awhile in my WA2 and found that trio to be a good pairing with HD800, to my ears.

This morning, I was craving a change and rolled in some PCC88 2-mica Lorenz Stuttgart grays and...holy cow! I had forgotten how nice these Lorenz tubes are! Tight bass, smooooth liquid mids and more extended highs than the CV4109.

I'm not getting any work done today. 



YMMV, IMHO, yada yada


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 28, 2017)

samuelnsh said:


> The seller says in the description the tubes aren't tested though. If I just order two, is there a high chance that they aren't matched tubes? At such case, each channel would sound different right?
> 
> (New to the game, sorry if these questions are elementary!)



It's certainly a roll of the dice.  A pair usually run about $100+-.  They 'appear' to be new or close to it as to how they are boxed...but who knows.
You could offer him $25 and see what happens.  Hard to go wrong for a $50 pair.  I started my WA2 with TS 5998's and at a certain point I switched to the 7236's
and really liked them.  To my ears the 5998's were a bit too hot and the 7236's smoothed things out on my rig...I liked the instrument timbre better.  I've since
switched to the GEC6AS7G's and have never looked back.
Anyway...this is a cheap way to try them out.  If you roll the dice, I hope it works out.  I've had somewhat 'unmatched' power tubes in the WA2 and haven't noticed an imbalance.  I'm sure there's a point at which you would however.
Good luck.


----------



## ru4music

samuelnsh said:


> The seller says in the description the tubes aren't tested though. If I just order two, is there a high chance that they aren't matched tubes? At such case, each channel would sound different right?
> 
> (New to the game, sorry if these questions are elementary!)


I would go for it!  They look New Old Stock and like @billerb1 said offer $25 ea, and see what happens.


----------



## samuelnsh

ru4music said:


> I would go for it!  They look New Old Stock and like @billerb1 said offer $25 ea, and see what happens.


Haha I heeded @billerb1's advice and the seller accepted the offer! PM'd him to thank him .

Thanks for reassuring me that this is (probably) a good idea! Will report back on the tubes' quality once they arrive.


----------



## billerb1

samuelnsh said:


> Haha I heeded @billerb1's advice and the seller accepted the offer! PM'd him to thank him .
> 
> Thanks for reassuring me that this is (probably) a good idea! Will report back on the tubes' quality once they arrive.


----------



## rnros

Franatic said:


> maheeinfy, all the tubes matter when using the pre-amp out. I dual task my WA2 as a pre and headphone amp and love it. The better the tubes, the better it sounds.
> Here is my tube assessment for the WA2
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations.393811/page-44#post-12308869
> Sorry for the long time delay in an answer, haven't been here in awhile and I'm not getting notifications like I should.



Enjoyed reading your tube comparisons when I was looking at the WA2 as a possible purchase.
Question: I know the WA2 can handle up to 600mA heater current because the 6N1P is listed as a compatible tube, but can it handle the 950mA of the ECC32?


----------



## Franatic

rnros said:


> Enjoyed reading your tube comparisons when I was looking at the WA2 as a possible purchase.
> Question: I know the WA2 can handle up to 600mA heater current because the 6N1P is listed as a compatible tube, but can it handle the 950mA of the ECC32?



rnros, I have been running my pair of ECC32s for a year and a half with no problems. It seems to handle the higher heater current, no problem. The WA2 sounds so good with this tube. I'm still running it with WE 421As and Marconi U709s also.

Here is the adapter I use:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/191186405190?chn=ps&dispItem=1

No need to change tubes or experiment anymore. I wonder what the lifespan is on these tubes. I figure the beginning of 2018 I'll try new pairs as a I have backups for the tubes I'm currently running. NOS Tubes have gotten more expensive the past few years.

Uunfortunately Woo has discontinued the preamp out in their current WA2 production. Perhaps you can find old stock or used that has the preamp output. I was very disappointed in that development. Not a good thing to decrease performance of a product. The preamp out gave the WA2 amazing value. It was one of the main reasons I bought it in the first place. I'm using Beyer T1s as my headphone. Very good symmetry there.


----------



## Franatic

I found one for you:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Woo-Audio-W...253849?hash=item33d3883f99:g:SbMAAOSwpmBZdkLI

If you get it, good luck.


----------



## rnros

Franatic said:


> rnros, I have been running my pair of ECC32s for a year and a half with no problems. It seems to handle the higher heater current, no problem. The WA2 sounds so good with this tube. I'm still running it with WE 421As and Marconi U709s also.
> 
> Here is the adapter I use:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/191186405190?chn=ps&dispItem=1
> ...



Thank you for the quick response and the lead! However, I have already ordered a different amp. 
Was surprised when I realized the WA2 could handle the 6SN7, in the company promo it's always shown with the noval tubes. Thought the appeal would be greater if the 6SN7 option was known.
I'll look forward to trying the GEC power tubes, next year perhaps, but even the 6080s are tough to find in matched pairs. Already have a selection of power tubes that I need to work through, and of course, the cost of the GECs is major.
Also will have to think about the Mullard ECC32, found them for about $300 each, so that will also be a future consideration. But I do have a large variety of drivers to keep me busy for now.
Thanks again, appreciate the help. May those tubes continue to glow for a long time!


----------



## Franatic

Yes, NOS tubes are getting scarcer and more expensive all the time. Fortunately, I have a nice stock of great tubes for my WA2.

I hope you enjoy your new amp as much as I enjoy the WA2. What amp did you get??


----------



## rnros

Franatic said:


> Yes, NOS tubes are getting scarcer and more expensive all the time. Fortunately, I have a nice stock of great tubes for my WA2.
> 
> I hope you enjoy your new amp as much as I enjoy the WA2. What amp did you get??



Thanks. I do have several of the Schiit tube amps which are very good, especially the hybrids, but I wanted to try an all tube OTL.
Glenn OTL, with additional options for driver and power tubes. Driver options include the 6SN7 group including 12V and 25V versions, and the C3g.
Power tube options include 6AS7/6080, 6BL7, 6BX7. Also the 6336s with 5A heaters.
Lots of options to explore, will keep me busy.  : )


----------



## ru4music

rnros said:


> Thanks. I do have several of the Schiit tube amps which are very good, especially the hybrids, but I wanted to try an all tube OTL.
> Glenn OTL, with additional options for driver and power tubes. Driver options include the 6SN7 group including 12V and 25V versions, and the C3g.
> Power tube options include 6AS7/6080, 6BL7, 6BX7. Also the 6336s with 5A heaters.
> Lots of options to explore, will keep me busy.  : )



Congrats on the Glenn OTL!  Glenn is building my EL3N right now.  I also have the WA2 which is also a very good amp, but your version will give and endless tube capabilities along with top-of-the-line sonic capabilities.  Enjoy!!!!


----------



## ru4music

Franatic said:


> Yes, NOS tubes are getting scarcer and more expensive all the time. Fortunately, I have a nice stock of great tubes for my WA2.
> 
> I hope you enjoy your new amp as much as I enjoy the WA2. What amp did you get??


Franatic, good to see your still enjoying the WA2!


----------



## Franatic

Thanks, RU4! My tube experimenting period is over but hope my posts help others to make good decisions. Yes, I've had my WA2 for 3 years now. I got some great tubes to roll so I look to get at least another 3 out of it.

I see you're into Glenn OTL amps these days. They must be pretty sweet. Good luck with your new amp. Let us know how you like it and how it compares to the WA2.


----------



## ru4music

Franatic said:


> Thanks, RU4! My tube experimenting period is over but hope my posts help others to make good decisions. Yes, I've had my WA2 for 3 years now. I got some great tubes to roll so I look to get at least another 3 out of it.
> 
> I see you're into Glenn OTL amps these days. They must be pretty sweet. Good luck with your new amp. Let us know how you like it and how it compares to the WA2.



Well no, not necessarily OTL.  I have a Glenn EL3N based  amp (transformer coupled) currently being built which is more similar to a 45 output tube topology.  I still have the WA2 which I love to listen to as well!


----------



## rnros

ru4music said:


> Congrats on the Glenn OTL!  Glenn is building my EL3N right now.  I also have the WA2 which is also a very good amp, but your version will give and endless tube capabilities along with top-of-the-line sonic capabilities.  Enjoy!!!!



Thanks, and yes, very much looking forward to the tube options available and the sonic qualities of this OTL.
And congrats to you also on the EL3N, should be a stellar experience.


----------



## billerb1

Some of these Tung Sol 7236's are still available for $34.95 BIN or Make an Offer if anyone's interested...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-TUN...429832?hash=item48a1564108:g:reAAAOSwXQZZdRTD


----------



## ru4music

billerb1 said:


> Some of these Tung Sol 7236's are still available for $34.95 BIN or Make an Offer if anyone's interested...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-TUN...429832?hash=item48a1564108:g:reAAAOSwXQZZdRTD



Bill, did you get those WE396A tubes lit up yet?


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 31, 2017)

Bro I've tried 3 of the 2c51/5670/396a types.  Theyre all good and the differences are subtle but to me the Bendix have something special. Just a bit more presence, a bit more impact, a bit more realism. I have the Tung Sols just behind them but their midrange is second to none...and I can't make up my mind on which has the better bass. Depending on your system and what you listen for, the JK WE396a's could very well be your favorite, especially if you dig the vibe of the Mullard E88CC's. Along those lines I'd say the Bendix's somewhat mimic the Siemens Cca sound and the Tung Sols are kind of a Telefunken/Heerlen hybrid sound. There that should confuse everybody, lol.


----------



## ru4music

billerb1 said:


> Bro I've tried 3 of the 2c51/5670/396a types.  Theyre all good and the differences are subtle but to me the Bendix have something special. Just a bit more presence, a bit more impact, a bit more realism. I have the Tung Sols just behind them but their midrange is second to none...and I can't make up my mind on which has the better bass. Depending on your system and what you listen for, the JK WE396a's could very well be your favorite, especially if you dig the vibe of the Mullard E88CC's. Along those lines I'd say the Bendix's somewhat mimic the Siemens Cca sound and the Tung Sols are kind of a Telefunken/Heerlen hybrid sound. There that should confuse everybody, lol.



Are you running the Bendix 6385 Red Bank series?  I have a pair (actually some pairs) and ran them almost exclusively in the buffer output of my CD player (I have since streamed the CDP transport through the X-Sabre DAC.)  They were excellent (top notch) in that position.  I tried them a couple of times in the WA2 (w/ 5998s) but felt the WE396A added a little more character to the sound in my setup.  I may need to rotate them again... too many great tubes to roll chasing that perfect synergy!  At the moment I'm still fixated with my `74 Reflektor 6N23P "Holy Grails"/ TS 5998/ Brimar EZ80 combo (and I still have NOS 1957 Bendix Red Bank 6385s and `75 Reflektor 6N23P "Holy Grails" sitting in storage.)  BTW, you'll need at least 50 to 100 hours on the tubes we are mentioning before they start to sound their best.  My NOS `74 Reflektor 6N23P "Holy Grails" took about 150 to 200 hours before they really opened up.


----------



## billerb1

No not the Red Banks...mine are 1951 2C51 Square Getters.  I'm running GEC6AS7G's and prefer the Bendix and the Tung Sol 2C51's over the JK WE396a's.  Just personal pref.


----------



## Autostart

@billerb1 is th W2 compatible rolling in those LM ERICSSON 396A gold pins I have? Will the W2 need the adapters as well?


----------



## billerb1

Autostart said:


> @billerb1 is th W2 compatible rolling in those LM ERICSSON 396A gold pins I have? Will the W2 need the adapters as well?



Yeah the 396A/2c51's are great with the WA2.  But yes you will need the 6N3 to ECC88 adapters.


----------



## Autostart (Jan 25, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Yeah the 396A/2c51's are great with the WA2.  But yes you will need the 6N3 to ECC88 adapters.



I'm dying to try out those 396A because I've heard so many good things about them. Now I have to battle with maybe purchasing a different style amp with different tubes. Everyone always raves about the 300B tubes but are they really that much better?

Do you think the W2 has enough power to drive Planars like the LCD's from Audeze? What about pairing it with HD800? I never even considered the W2. My choices for first to last are

WA5 LE
W22
W6 SE
and possibly now W2


----------



## billerb1

I’m driving HD800S’s with the WA2...great pairing.  I’m sure the WA22 would be more than sufficient.  Don’t know about the others.


----------



## Autostart

billerb1 said:


> I’m driving HD800S’s with the WA2...great pairing.  I’m sure the WA22 would be more than sufficient.  Don’t know about the others.



And from my understanding you also have a set of LM Ericsson 396a's? How do they fair in the W2?


----------



## billerb1

Autostart said:


> And from my understanding you also have a set of LM Ericsson 396a's? How do they fair in the W2?



I don’t have the Ericsson’s.  I’ve tried a lot of the others though and ended up preferring the Tung Sol 2c51’s.  Just personal preference.  BIG sound with just a killer midrange.  Need a good 50 hours of burn-in.


----------



## davveswe (Feb 3, 2018)

remove


----------



## davveswe (Mar 15, 2018)

Can a 6f8g to 6922 adapter been used with the wa2? 
6f8g uses 0,6 ampere and 6922 0,365 ampere.


----------



## davveswe

davveswe said:


> Can a 6f8g to 6922 adapter been used with the wa2?
> 6f8g uses 0,6 ampere and 6922 0,365 ampere.


----------



## MIKELAP

davveswe said:


> Can a 6f8g to 6922 adapter been used with the wa2?
> 6f8g uses 0,6 ampere and 6922 0,365 ampere.


 https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1pc-Gold-pl...130619?hash=item2c998412bb:g:XacAAOSwjVVVwubo


----------



## Astral Abyss

Here's some good news:  Myself and a few others approached Jeremy of Garage1217 about making a 2C51/5670/6N3P/396A to 6922 adapter and he agreed.  The adapter was completed on Tuesday and is up on his website to order.  They're $23 each, or I believe he offers a discount for multiples/pairs.  I bought 1 for my Ember and 2 for my WA2.  They should be here tomorrow and I'll take a pic of how they look in the WA2 with my 396a tubes.

 

http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm
(scroll to the bottom of the page)

If you've used Jeremy's adapters before, you know how well they're made.  I asked him about other adapters as well, and he said if this one is popular, he would likely consider it.  I would love to have a nice alternative vs questionable sellers (and quality) from China for my adapters.  Hopefully anyone interested will at least give these a consideration.  They're definitely worth the extra cost... unquestionably superior quality.


----------



## Astral Abyss

I may have jumped the gun.  New tube adapters are not working with WA2.  Standby while I find out what's up...


----------



## MIKELAP

Astral Abyss said:


> I may have jumped the gun.  New tube adapters are not working with WA2.  Standby while I find out what's up...


I was using these when i had my WA2   two 6N3 to ecc88 adapters https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1piece-Gold...370227?hash=item2cba6e94b3:g:3pgAAOSwKfVXJciG


----------



## davveswe

I have tested pair of tung sol 6sn7gtb, new production tubes matched and low microphonics. And they hum pretty loud, perhaps 6sn7s tubes don´t suit well in the wa2?


----------



## bobbyblack

Hi somebody heard about Siemens 6080?Some local guy have them NOS at 25$ per piece.
Thanks!


----------



## Arcamera

Personally, definitely prefer the 6080 over the 7236 (but sorry, don't know about the Siemens). Even though I've been using the WA22 mostly lately, I still love the WA2 sound. Smooth and sweet, yet still punchy, detailed, and satisfying. So good with both the HD800 (Classical for me), and the ZMF Atticus (Rock, everything else).


----------



## Maalis

Does anyone have experience with NOS tube store (http://www.nostubestore.com)? They seem to have some interesting tubes but are they reputable?


----------



## StanT

Maalis said:


> Does anyone have experience with NOS tube store (http://www.nostubestore.com)? They seem to have some interesting tubes but are they reputable?


I bought some Mazda E88CC from them a couple of years ago. Shipping took a while; but they have fairly nice and unusual tubes.


----------



## Maalis

Also reading through the thread I see people using 6SN7s with adapters in WA2, is this something that can be done but is not recommended by Woo since 6SN7 is not listed in the current tube chart for WA2? I recently got a second-hand WA2 which is quite an old model I believe, it has preamp outs but no selector switch between HP amp/preamp and the volume pot is next to the headphone jack unlike current model. Have the compatible tubes changed over the years?


----------



## Mihis

Hi all!

Been listening to WA2 for a long time with orange globes but today I got to listen to first pair of 2c51's. These Tung Sols are pretty well regarded and I can concur So far so good based on 15 mins listening. It's always exciting to hear new things in favourite songs

Pins were a bit wonky, so they were quite a tight fit to the adapters. I might have to leave them on for a while...


----------



## TraneTime

I bought a matched pair of Tung-Sol 5998's NOS.  They're pretty microphonic.  Tap on the WA2 case or run your fingers over the volume knob and you hear it through the headphones.  Does anyone know if tube dampers will help alleviate this?


----------



## Mihis

Quit fondling the WA2?-P I know, I know, it's really pretty and shiny I had to stop it after I burnt my fingers couple times...


----------



## TraneTime

Mihis said:


> Quit fondling the WA2?-P I know, I know, it's really pretty and shiny I had to stop it after I burnt my fingers couple times...


That's what will happen if you fondle the tubes.


----------



## Franatic

Maalis said:


> Also reading through the thread I see people using 6SN7s with adapters in WA2, is this something that can be done but is not recommended by Woo since 6SN7 is not listed in the current tube chart for WA2? I recently got a second-hand WA2 which is quite an old model I believe, it has preamp outs but no selector switch between HP amp/preamp and the volume pot is next to the headphone jack unlike current model. Have the compatible tubes changed over the years?



I've been running a set of Mullard ECC32s through an adapter. They are in the 6SN7 family. They are by far the best driver tube I've tried in the WA2, and I've tried many. Stay away from the highly rated B65 tubes, as I had issues with them. I think you can run most other 6SN7s through the adapter below.

You need an adapter like this to run 6SN7s:
https://tubedepot.com/products/6sn7...ldX6AjVomxb7kyQitouht4N7-XScG-c4aArBTEALw_wcB

I think the 6SN7 family is superior to the 6922/ECC88/6DJ8 tubes. Although the 6N23P '74 Reflektor and the Siemens CCA are great. You can read my tube review here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations.393811/page-44#post-12308869


----------



## Maalis

Franatic said:


> I've been running a set of Mullard ECC32s through an adapter. They are in the 6SN7 family. They are by far the best driver tube I've tried in the WA2, and I've tried many. Stay away from the highly rated B65 tubes, as I had issues with them. I think you can run most other 6SN7s through the adapter below.
> 
> You need an adapter like this to run 6SN7s:
> https://tubedepot.com/products/6sn7...ldX6AjVomxb7kyQitouht4N7-XScG-c4aArBTEALw_wcB
> ...



Thanks, I've got those adapters coming in along with some 6SN7s


----------



## KEV G

Hi people of Woo, recently bought a used WA2 and love it. I’m working my way through a few threads trying to catch up. Felt I needed to jump ahead and seek your advice on a couple of tubes I bought on eBay. They are a pair of Jan 6922, the listing stated one was new and the other only 5 hours old. The one that has been used has a dark spot on the top, is this normal or should I send it back and ask for a refund. 
Here’s a picture of the tube-



 Thanks for any advice you can give me.


----------



## billerb1

Could be a deal on GEC 6080's if you're interested......

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-6080-G...806221?hash=item286433c50d:g:0AkAAOSwHj1beDUl


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sometimes I miss this amp, I kinda want one to use as a pre-amp, for my first watt j2. even though the gsx mk2 is fantastic,the OTL sound is special and I could probably have some fun with it.


----------



## thecrow (Aug 25, 2018)

Dubstep Girl said:


> sometimes I miss this amp, I kinda want one to use as a pre-amp, for my first watt j2. even though the gsx mk2 is fantastic,the OTL sound is special and I could probably have some fun with it.


Well....only because you helped me heaps with tube info when i bought my wa2 a few years ago i am actually happy to forgo my wa2 if you want me to take the wa5 off your hands.

I’m even happy to do a straight swap without asking for cash on top.

That’s the type of guy that i am


----------



## nocturaline

Hello! I just hope some knowledgeable people are still watching this thread.

My WA2 has, in the last few weeks, developed a hum in the right channel. After switching things around, I discovered that the culprit was one of the power tubes. Those are the tubes that come with the amp, Philips JAN 6080WC. At this moment, I can only replace them with something cheap, as in possibly no more than $30 per tube. Also, I'd rather buy from a reputable store, rather than some unknown seller on eBay.

Is anyone familiar with the Winged 'C' 6H13C? Is it a tube similar to the one I have in terms of sound quality? Even if it's a little bit 'colder', I wouldn't mind, as my main headphone, the ZMF Atticus, is pretty warm. Thanks!


----------



## thecrow

nocturaline said:


> Hello! I just hope some knowledgeable people are still watching this thread.
> 
> My WA2 has, in the last few weeks, developed a hum in the right channel. After switching things around, I discovered that the culprit was one of the power tubes. Those are the tubes that come with the amp, Philips JAN 6080WC. At this moment, I can only replace them with something cheap, as in possibly no more than $30 per tube. Also, I'd rather buy from a reputable store, rather than some unknown seller on eBay.
> 
> Is anyone familiar with the Winged 'C' 6H13C? Is it a tube similar to the one I have in terms of sound quality? Even if it's a little bit 'colder', I wouldn't mind, as my main headphone, the ZMF Atticus, is pretty warm. Thanks!


Does this help?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...GZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html


----------



## nocturaline

thecrow said:


> Does this help?
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...GZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html



Thanks! It's very useful. But do you know where I could find a comparison regarding the sound quality between those tubes, specifically between the original WA2 JAN 6080 and the Winged 6H13C?


----------



## thecrow

nocturaline said:


> Thanks! It's very useful. But do you know where I could find a comparison regarding the sound quality between those tubes, specifically between the original WA2 JAN 6080 and the Winged 6H13C?


No

@Badas has always been a helpful member with tube experience with 6080 tubes on his wa22. He does lean to non bright sound I believe (at least not too bright)


----------



## nocturaline

thecrow said:


> No
> 
> @Badas has always been a helpful member with tube experience with 6080 tubes on his wa22. He does lean to non bright sound I believe (at least not too bright)


Thanks again. I'll ask him. However, the more I have to deal with tubes, the more I want to switch back to solid state and stop worrying about it. I bought my first tube amp in 1990, a Jadis DA30, and sometimes - too many times - it was a wild ride where I spent more time switching tubes around rather than just enjoying the music. Maybe the upcoming WA11 would be a good alternative. Thanks for your help!


----------



## Astral Abyss

nocturaline said:


> Thanks again. I'll ask him. However, the more I have to deal with tubes, the more I want to switch back to solid state and stop worrying about it. I bought my first tube amp in 1990, a Jadis DA30, and sometimes - too many times - it was a wild ride where I spent more time switching tubes around rather than just enjoying the music. Maybe the upcoming WA11 would be a good alternative. Thanks for your help!



If you were happy with your 6080WC tubes, I can recommend a couple online stores that are reliable and sell good quality tubes... and have them in stock at reasonable prices.  Also Sylvania/Philips 6080WB/WC are the same tube, so go for either. 

I have personally bought tubes from these locations with excellent results:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/510683...?ga_search_query=6080&ref=shop_items_search_2
https://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=3587

Other options:

https://valvetubes.com/6080wa-thomson-csf-french.html  (might want to grab a couple of these while you still can)


----------



## nocturaline

Astral Abyss said:


> If you were happy with your 6080WC tubes, I can recommend a couple online stores that are reliable and sell good quality tubes... and have them in stock at reasonable prices.  Also Sylvania/Philips 6080WB/WC are the same tube, so go for either.
> 
> I have personally bought tubes from these locations with excellent results:
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the links! I couldn't resist and ordered the Thomson pair. They're inexpensive, and if they sound as good as the current Philips I have, it's all good. It will be fun to have something French in my WA2


----------



## Astral Abyss

nocturaline said:


> Thank you so much for the links! I couldn't resist and ordered the Thomson pair. They're inexpensive, and if they sound as good as the current Philips I have, it's all good. It will be fun to have something French in my WA2



Nice!  I think you'll like them.  I do hope they ship in the original HUGE military boxes.  They're so big it's comical, but really impressive.


----------



## nocturaline

Astral Abyss said:


> Nice!  I think you'll like them.  I do hope they ship in the original HUGE military boxes.  They're so big it's comical, but really impressive.


I'll let you know when they land here. Being French living in the US, it's always fun to have some French product delivered to your door.


----------



## nocturaline

I also ordered today some Matsushita 7DJ8 to replace the JJ E88CC gold pin I'm currently using as drivers - never been a big fan of the original Jan Philips 6922. Will be interesting to see how they sound.


----------



## Csericks

I have used, and loved, these tubes in my WA2


----------



## nocturaline

The Matsushita/National have been delivered and installed. They're replacing the JJ E88CC Gold Pin I currently have in the WA2. Although they don't have the warmth of the JJ, the soundstage has expanded and instrument separation is better. The midrange is still king though, which is great. The bass, although less powerful, is more delineated. The highs are present but not overwhelming. Overall, it's a great tube.

The Thomson power tubes are about to leave England, so hopefully they'll be delivered next week.


----------



## thecrow

nocturaline said:


> The Matsu****a/National have been delivered and installed. They're replacing the JJ E88CC Gold Pin I currently have in the WA2. Although they don't have the warmth of the JJ, the soundstage has expanded and instrument separation is better. The midrange is still king though, which is great. The bass, although less powerful, is more delineated. The highs are present but not overwhelming. Overall, it's a great tube.
> 
> The Thomson power tubes are about to leave England, so hopefully they'll be delivered next week.


You may find other inexpensive options in the schiit lyr2 rolling thread for 6dj8 options. Some of those need adapters 

And some of those members in there taking rolling tubes (in quantity) to another level. So that might be worth a read


----------



## nocturaline

thecrow said:


> You may find other inexpensive options in the schiit lyr2 rolling thread for 6dj8 options. Some of those need adapters
> 
> And some of those members in there taking rolling tubes (in quantity) to another level. So that might be worth a read


Thanks! I'll take a look.


----------



## StanT

nocturaline said:


> I'll let you know when they land here. Being French living in the US, it's always fun to have some French product delivered to your door.


They are hard to find; but you might like some Mazda E88cc. I've been using a pair for the past couple of years. They are made in Suresnes, France and sound very similar to Herleen manufactured Phillips or Amperex (same owner).


----------



## nocturaline

StanT said:


> They are hard to find; but you might like some Mazda E88cc. I've been using a pair for the past couple of years. They are made in Suresnes, France and sound very similar to Herleen manufactured Phillips or Amperex (same owner).


I've heard of the Mazda. Saw a pair for sale somewhere a few days ago. I'll have to track them down. Thanks for reminding me.


----------



## thecrow

One thing I’ve learnt in my tube rolling it’s definitely quality over quantity. 

Having said that a small variety is good and you do have to explore options to see what beat uita your preferences 

I also learnt that when there is a general con census here it’s usually correct


----------



## nocturaline

thecrow said:


> One thing I’ve learnt in my tube rolling it’s definitely quality over quantity.
> 
> Having said that a small variety is good and you do have to explore options to see what beat uita your preferences
> 
> I also learnt that when there is a general con census here it’s usually correct


I completely agree with what you're saying. Actually, if there hadn't been one of the power tubes buzzing, I wouldn't have changed anything. On the other hand, it's always nice to try to reasonably improve things, as long as we're not going too far - I'm talking to you, $500 Tung Sol 5998!


----------



## thecrow (Jan 4, 2019)

nocturaline said:


> I completely agree with what you're saying. Actually, if there hadn't been one of the power tubes buzzing, I wouldn't have changed anything. On the other hand, it's always nice to try to reasonably improve things, as long as we're not going too far - I'm talking to you, $500 Tung Sol 5998!


Maybe a pair of tung sol for $200-250

Or pair of gec 6as7g for 500 and you’ll NEVER need an alternative pair of power tubes


----------



## nocturaline

The power tubes have finally arrived - From the time they were shipped, it took 1 day from the UK to San Francisco and 4 days from San Francisco to my house, which is about 20 miles away. What a world. I haven't listened to them yet. The Amp is currently warming up. And yes they arrived in those crazy huge boxes  - sorry for the not-so-great iPhone pics. No time to take out the real camera, put it on the tripod and take some HDR pics.


----------



## nocturaline

thecrow said:


> Maybe a pair of tung sol for $200-250
> 
> Or pair of gec 6as7g for 500 and you’ll NEVER need an alternative pair of power tubes


I may actually do something like that later this year... Unless I go solid state (Woo WA11). We'll see.


----------



## nocturaline

Those Thomson power tubes are excellent. The warmth that was somehow gone after installing the Matsushita driver tubes is back. Also, The Thomson add even more to the openness of the Matsushita. As I said in the Atticus thread, although not similar, it reminds me of my old electrostatic gear. It's fresh and fun. I've ordered a second set, just to be safe. Next, i might look into the rectifiers.


----------



## Jyhnc

StanT said:


> I'm not sure at what point Audeze changed the LCD-3f to 120Ω; but mine sound very good on my WA2.
> 
> I bounce between Beyer T1s, LCD-3f (120Ω), a Ragnarok, and my WA2, and all combinations sound very nice.



Thanks for the info.

I am very keen to get a WA2 for LCD3 and HD800S but saw a few comments in this discussion that WA2 is underpowered to drive the LCD3. I find this confusing because LCD3 has a recommended power level of 250mW and WA2 could output ~500mW at around 110ohm, so in theory this should be sufficient? 

Do you need to turn up the volume to max when you use LCD3 with the WA2?


----------



## nocturaline

Jyhnc said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I am very keen to get a WA2 for LCD3 and HD800S but saw a few comments in this discussion that WA2 is underpowered to drive the LCD3. I find this confusing because LCD3 has a recommended power level of 250mW and WA2 could output ~500mW at around 110ohm, so in theory this should be sufficient?
> 
> Do you need to turn up the volume to max when you use LCD3 with the WA2?


I'm not sure the WA2 is the right amp for the LCD3. The WA2 is an OTL, and to my knowledge, will work best with 300ohm dynamic headphones such as the Sennheiser HD650 or the ZMF line. With the ZMF Atticus, I use about a quarter of the power. It will work just fine with the HD800S, which is a dynamic with high impedance, but with the LCD3, it may be too powerful. For the same price, the WA6-SE is probably a better option.


----------



## Jyhnc

nocturaline said:


> I'm not sure the WA2 is the right amp for the LCD3. The WA2 is an OTL, and to my knowledge, will work best with 300ohm dynamic headphones such as the Sennheiser HD650 or the ZMF line. With the ZMF Atticus, I use about a quarter of the power. It will work just fine with the HD800S, which is a dynamic with high impedance, but with the LCD3, it may be too powerful. For the same price, the WA6-SE is probably a better option.


Thanks for the advice.
I am very interested in the WA6SE. However I am worried that it would sounded too 'Solid-State-ish'. Does WA6SE still preserve the best sounds of a Tube amp?


----------



## attmci

Jyhnc said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> I am very interested in the WA6SE. However I am worried that it would sounded too 'Solid-State-ish'. Does WA6SE still preserve the best sounds of a Tube amp?


How about a WA22? No problem to drive LCD-3.


----------



## OldSkool

I own HD800's and LCD2's and power them with my WA2. Using TS5998 as power tubes, the HD800 sounds superb and even the LCD2 sounds "pretty dang good".

I recently picked up a Schiit Mjolnir amp, the original balanced SS version and I'm very glad I did as it "woke up" the LCD2. Not sure if it was a power or impedance issue but the synergy between the LCD2 and MJ1 is outstanding.

The latest version of the Mjolnir amp can use tubes but I have not heard it.

My .02 cents, YMMV.


----------



## nocturaline

Jyhnc said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> I am very interested in the WA6SE. However I am worried that it would sounded too 'Solid-State-ish'. Does WA6SE still preserve the best sounds of a Tube amp?


I've never listened to the WA6 SE. My advice would be to contact Woo Audio directly and ask them. They're really cool people and should be able to tell you how each amp will sound with your headphones. And I agree with attmci, the WA22 would be an excellent choice, although it costs twice as much. That will probably be my next WOO amp purchase (unless I'm able to afford a WA33 ).


----------



## StanT

Jyhnc said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I am very keen to get a WA2 for LCD3 and HD800S but saw a few comments in this discussion that WA2 is underpowered to drive the LCD3. I find this confusing because LCD3 has a recommended power level of 250mW and WA2 could output ~500mW at around 110ohm, so in theory this should be sufficient?
> 
> Do you need to turn up the volume to max when you use LCD3 with the WA2?


No, my WA2 has never been turned up much past half way and that was when I used it as a preamp.

The LCD-3s sound better on the Ragnarok, the T1s on the WA2; but both would be very acceptable if I didn't have a choice. I'm also using 5998 tubes.


----------



## BlueSundays

I tried using a pair of MR Speakers Aeon open on a Crack amp. Did not work at all. Hardly any volume. Same power tube and driver tube Im pretty sure.


----------



## nocturaline

To go back to the thread main topic, I have changed the original rectifiers on my WA2 with Miniwatt EZ80. The change is subtle but increases the openness i had already achieved with the power Thomson and driver Matsushita tubes. French and Japanese tubes, the perfect combination  No worries, though, it's still a tubey sounding amp, which is what I love.


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 5, 2019)

Been blown away for the past couple of months using a pair of Telefunken ECC801s as my driver tubes.  You'll of course need 12AT7 to E88CC adapters.  Great synergy with my GEC 6AS7G's power and Marconi U709 rectifiers.

Along those lines I've read that GEC A2900's are the absolute premier 12AT7 type tube...but that it has a higher amplification factor than others in the family.  Has anyone here tried them with the WA2?   Are they compatible ???
Would appreciate any input.
http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/pdf/a2900.pdf


----------



## adamaley

@billerb1 did you finally settle down with the Marconi U709. Did the tipped up sound recede somewhat, or did you temper the hotness using other tubes in order to retain it's great detail in your system. I have a preamp incoming and I'm researching EZ80/81 candidates to try out. Hopefully, others can chip with their favorite variants to give me researching homework.


----------



## billerb1

adamaley said:


> @billerb1 did you finally settle down with the Marconi U709. Did the tipped up sound recede somewhat, or did you temper the hotness using other tubes in order to retain it's great detail in your system. I have a preamp incoming and I'm researching EZ80/81 candidates to try out. Hopefully, others can chip with their favorite variants to give me researching homework.



Am loving the Marconi U709's with my GEC 6AS7G's and Telefunken ECC801S's (which require 12AX7 to E88CC adapters).  As close to 'being there' that I've heard on headphones.


----------



## adamaley

Thanks for the feedback. Glad you're enjoying this tube and your system as a whole.


----------



## adamaley

One more additional question, @billerb1, is the Marconi U709 the same as the GEC U709 that can be seen on eBay for exorbitant amounts? Also, have you or anyone on here compared a Brimar to the Marconi?


----------



## Bruc3

Hi all, 

I might be getting a used WA2 soon to pair with my Beyer T1 Gen1.

What DAC would you recommend I get with the WA2 for < $300.


----------



## dolgen

thecrow said:


> after listening to the mullards for a few night, i then received the slotted graphite bendix 6080wb tubes. i haven't yet gone back to the mullards to confirm this but my first impression of the bendix (relative to the mullards) is there was more grunt and power to them. punchy (in a solid manner) , weighty and warm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My HE560 sounds splendid with the WA2...best I've heard, and I've heard a lot of very good amps with that phone.


----------



## SHIMACM

Good morning to everyone in the community! I just bought the T1 G1 and am thinking of buying the WA2. I know that stock tubes are not good. I therefore want to roll some tubes. I already have and Little Dot Mk IV and and I already rolled many tubes in it, but I came to the conclusion that I don't like using adapters. I don't like the look. So which tubes do you recommend me to use on WA2 that don't need adapters? I mainly listen to classical music, jazz, opera and a little bit of the rest.


----------



## RickInHouston

SHIMACM said:


> Good morning to everyone in the community! I just bought the T1 G1 and am thinking of buying the WA2. I know that stock tubes are not good. I therefore want to roll some tubes. I already have and Little Dot Mk IV and and I already rolled many tubes in it, but I came to the conclusion that I don't like using adapters. I don't like the look. So which tubes do you recommend me to use on WA2 that don't need adapters? I mainly listen to classical music, jazz, opera and a little bit of the rest.



Woo Audio WA2 owner. Bought on Ebay 08.2019 from a nice fella who went to the Rocky Mountain show and auditioned quite a few headphone amps. I think he even talked to the head guy. One year warrant expired 11.2019

I have a distinct buzz in right headphone. Allo DigiOne Signature to Benchmark DAC3 (just as DAC) to WA2. No moving the unit to another location, change of cables, nothing could get rid of it. Switched tubes left to right, new set of tubes (upgrade) - no change. There's a buzz from the transformer even if you put your ear close to the unit. Contacted Woo before warrant expired. WOW. Basically would not take any responsibility. I even asked to pay shipping to them so they could hear it - obviously something is wrong. No. They said IT WAS A WASTE OF TIME.

The thing is worthless if it buzzes to me. Why make an amplifier if it induces noise?

Anyway, did a search for tube amp repair in my area. Found a guy that's taking a look. Who knows?

I will never buy Woo Audio again. I even thought about their trading up program (I can afford it) but why give them any money if they don't stand behind their product.

Just my honest opinion.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

That's terrible man. Sorry to hear this.


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 13, 2020)

SHIMACM said:


> Good morning to everyone in the community! I just bought the T1 G1 and am thinking of buying the WA2. I know that stock tubes are not good. I therefore want to roll some tubes. I already have and Little Dot Mk IV and and I already rolled many tubes in it, but I came to the conclusion that I don't like using adapters. I don't like the look. So which tubes do you recommend me to use on WA2 that don't need adapters? I mainly listen to classical music, jazz, opera and a little bit of the rest.


For those types of music I think a pair of Telefunken E188CC's would fit the bill very well.  Very pure.  I personally use the Tele ECC801S' but they do require adapters.  I find them a bit better to my ears than the E188CC's.  Make sure they are genuine Telefunken with the diamond on the bottom glass.  Lot of counterfeit Telefunkens out there.
I had the T1G1's when I first acquired my WA2.  Great match.  I now use HD800S's.
My other WA2 tubes teamed with the Tele ECC801S's are GEC 6AS7G power tubes and Marconi U709 rectifiers.


----------



## zeroduke

Jyhnc said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I am very keen to get a WA2 for LCD3 and HD800S but saw a few comments in this discussion that WA2 is underpowered to drive the LCD3. I find this confusing because LCD3 has a recommended power level of 250mW and WA2 could output ~500mW at around 110ohm, so in theory this should be sufficient?
> 
> Do you need to turn up the volume to max when you use LCD3 with the WA2?



I own the WA2. Also the Sennheiser HD800 and Audeze LCD-3 NF.  WA2 is running with Bendix 6080, Mullard EZ81 and Philips SQ e88cc.  HD800 goes very well with WA2, sounds more natural, specially in the highs,  compared to SS amps.   No problem at all with the Audeze LCD-3 NF, no high volume required.   Never ever needed to exceed 11.30 to drive them. The WA2 manages the LCD-3 perfectly well.


----------



## drgameboy

WA2 is a TOTL tube amp with the right tubes! I have both the wa2 and an Eddie Current Zana Deux Super. Running the Tungsol 5998 power tubees, Phillips Miniwatt EZ80 rectifier tubes, and Amperex 6922 white label PQ O getter for my driver tubes, and with my HD800S, both amps sound exactly the same! Incredible. The Wa2 with the stock tubes were mediocre at best.


----------



## thecrow

drgameboy said:


> WA2 is a TOTL tube amp with the right tubes! I have both the wa2 and an Eddie Current Zana Deux Super. Running the Tungsol 5998 power tubees, Phillips Miniwatt EZ80 rectifier tubes, and Amperex 6922 white label PQ O getter for my driver tubes, and with my HD800S, both amps sound exactly the same! Incredible. The Wa2 with the stock tubes were mediocre at best.


yes but........if you throw some holland tubes in there then it sweetens it nicely (that's me assuming your 6922 are usa).

though the PW tubes are great (and expensive) my valvo e88cc red label d-getter hollands (1960) are very good too. 

in fact, i sold them a while ago, but i also had some other holland tubes (not bugle boys) that might have been e188cc and they were good too - from memory about $150 usd or so when i bought them about 3 or 4 years ago (ebay)


----------



## drgameboy

thecrow said:


> yes but........if you throw some holland tubes in there then it sweetens it nicely (that's me assuming your 6922 are usa).
> 
> though the PW tubes are great (and expensive) my valvo e88cc red label d-getter hollands (1960) are very good too.
> 
> in fact, i sold them a while ago, but i also had some other holland tubes (not bugle boys) that might have been e188cc and they were good too - from memory about $150 usd or so when i bought them about 3 or 4 years ago (ebay)



I really wanted to get the amperex 6922 Holland's, d getters, pq white label, with gold pins, but they were too expensive. Cheapest on eBay for a nos pair is $450!!!!! I plan to use the wa2 with my zmf eikons, hd800s I listen exclusively with ZDS. Also my ts 5998 are a little microphonic, is that normal? No weird sounds or pings, but I can hear feedback on my headphones when I tap the amp, or change inputs.


----------



## Dubstep Girl (Oct 4, 2020)

drgameboy said:


> WA2 is a TOTL tube amp with the right tubes! I have both the wa2 and an Eddie Current Zana Deux Super. Running the Tungsol 5998 power tubees, Phillips Miniwatt EZ80 rectifier tubes, and Amperex 6922 white label PQ O getter for my driver tubes, and with my HD800S, both amps sound exactly the same! Incredible. The Wa2 with the stock tubes were mediocre at best.



its amazing when maxed out, best synergy with HD 800 and T1 until you spend a lot more on a tube amp + upgrades (like the next level is WA5 with good tubes, DNA, Zana Deux, Apex Teton). I find the synergy with those 2 headphones to be even better than WA22 as its smoother, more coherent, emotional, musical; despite the W22 being more resolving, spacious, and dynamic.

didn’t find a combo that I found as pleased with until HE-6 + WA5 (with western electric 300B and other good tubes), that finally gave me the same kind of sweet smooth transparent sound and ended the search for better. 

still one of woo’s best designs


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 5, 2020)

I tried every combination in the freaking world with my WA2 and this is what I ended up with:  GEC 6AS7G's, Telefunken ECC801S's (with adapters) and Marconi U709's with Schiit Audio Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC and HD800S's...pure (and I do mean PURE) heaven !!!


----------



## Jacobal

I’d say go to hell with all this confusion of mixing & matching and just get the Sennheiser HE1, an all-in-one solution:
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/sennheiser-he-1

You’ll save a ton of time and trouble. Not to mention this exotic product will most likely increase in value after it’s discontinued. A win-win.


----------



## thecrow

Jacobal said:


> I’d say go to hell with all this confusion of mixing & matching and just get the Sennheiser HE1, an all-in-one solution:
> https://en-us.sennheiser.com/sennheiser-he-1
> 
> You’ll save a ton of time and trouble. Not to mention this exotic product will most likely increase in value after it’s discontinued. A win-win.


It’s hard to argue with that logic


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> It’s hard to argue with that logic



Hey Crow, I'm all for logic too.  But I'm retired now.  Wondering if I could borrow 58K.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Jacobal

The HE1 has everything you’ve ever needed:

Headphones, check
DAC, check
Tubes, check
Amp, check
Power conditioner, check
Quality power cord, check

The only thing you have to supply is the USB cable.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Hey Crow, I'm all for logic too.  But I'm retired now.  Wondering if I could borrow 58K.
> Thanks in advance.


I can’t help right now. But I’m buying my he1 through layby. 
(I hope you have layby over your part of the world, it’s old school. You just keep making payments until you’ve fully paid it then you take it home).

i should have it paid in 2028. By then, from what i am reading here it will be worth more than $58,000. so it’s win-win.

unless there is an he2 by then and then the he1 value drops off.

i may need to rethink this as i’m starting to think it may not be such a wise decision after all

maybe i’ll go back to where it all started with my athm50x.  Or my O2 and odac (my first amp and dac)


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> I can’t help right now. But I’m buying my he1 through layby.
> (I hope you have layby over your part of the world, it’s old school. You just keep making payments until you’ve fully paid it then you take it home).
> 
> i should have it paid in 2028. By then, from what i am reading here it will be worth more than $58,000. so it’s win-win.
> ...



I think you're makin' me dizzy.


----------



## thecrow

@billerb1 maybe i’ll put a wtb ad in the classifieds here In case someone wants to sell.

“willing to pay up to $10,000 or trade for my wa2 with upgraded tubes. Time wasters need not apply”


----------



## drgameboy

Jacobal said:


> The HE1 has everything you’ve ever needed:
> 
> Headphones, check
> DAC, check
> ...



will a $15 belkin USB cable suffice?


----------



## Astral Abyss

drgameboy said:


> WA2 is a TOTL tube amp with the right tubes! I have both the wa2 and an Eddie Current Zana Deux Super. Running the Tungsol 5998 power tubees, Phillips Miniwatt EZ80 rectifier tubes, and Amperex 6922 white label PQ O getter for my driver tubes, and with my HD800S, both amps sound exactly the same! Incredible. The Wa2 with the stock tubes were mediocre at best.





thecrow said:


> yes but........if you throw some holland tubes in there then it sweetens it nicely (that's me assuming your 6922 are usa).
> 
> though the PW tubes are great (and expensive) my valvo e88cc red label d-getter hollands (1960) are very good too.
> 
> in fact, i sold them a while ago, but i also had some other holland tubes (not bugle boys) that might have been e188cc and they were good too - from memory about $150 usd or so when i bought them about 3 or 4 years ago (ebay)



I've been the happiest with 5998 power tubes, EZ81 RFT rectifiers, and Amperex A-Frame "orange globe" 6DJ8s from the 70s.  

I've actually tried a ton of other driver tubes and I like these A-frames best.  Weird.  I even tried many different 2C51/6N3P/5670 and 396A Western Electric tubes with adapters, a pair of Valvo white label CCa, some Holland made Philips PQs from the 60s, supposedly wonderful Reflektor SWGP 6N23Ps from '75, random Sylvania 6922s, etc.  I'm rather happy though, as those orange globes are fairly cheap and easy to find.

Only problem I foresee down the road is when the 5998s eventually wear out, I'll probably be SOL trying to find a new pair.


----------



## drgameboy

Astral Abyss said:


> I've been the happiest with 5998 power tubes, EZ81 RFT rectifiers, and Amperex A-Frame "orange globe" 6DJ8s from the 70s.
> 
> I've actually tried a ton of other driver tubes and I like these A-frames best.  Weird.  I even tried many different 2C51/6N3P/5670 and 396A Western Electric tubes with adapters, a pair of Valvo white label CCa, some Holland made Philips PQs from the 60s, supposedly wonderful Reflektor SWGP 6N23Ps from '75, random Sylvania 6922s, etc.  I'm rather happy though, as those orange globes are fairly cheap and easy to find.
> 
> Only problem I foresee down the road is when the 5998s eventually wear out, I'll probably be SOL trying to find a new pair.



I have a matched set of national electronics 5998's for sale, same as tungsol, grab them while they are still available. They are NOS with less than one hour of use.


----------



## Astral Abyss

drgameboy said:


> I have a matched set of national electronics 5998's for sale, same as tungsol, grab them while they are still available. They are NOS with less than one hour of use.


I will do that.  Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## Jacobal

@billerb1- Sell stuff you no longer need. Start walking instead of driving. Change your diet and start eating potatoes, rice, beans, bananas, and carrots.


----------



## thecrow

Jacobal said:


> @billerb1- Sell stuff you no longer need. Start walking instead of driving. Change your diet and start eating potatoes, rice, beans, bananas, and carrots.


Exactly!! @billerb1  sell stuff you no longer need amd buy the he1.

you know it makes sense!


----------



## billerb1

Lol, Jacobal and Crow I am indeed touched by the concern you both show for my aging carcass.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Lol, Jacobal and Crow I am indeed touched by the concern you both show for my aging carcass.


as you’re one of the good guys I’m just looking out for you


----------



## Nettlesomeness

From what I'm seeing through digging the threads, 6NS7 is a 6922 replacement given you use it with an adapter? is it confirmed that it wouldn't create issues?

If so, is it possible to use Psvane CV181-T Mark II considering it's a replacement for 6NS7?


----------



## Flisker

Hello,

I've been enjoying WA2 for at least 5 years and my favorite pair of power tubes are dead now. The famous G.E.C 6ASG7 ran out of life few days ago and my rectifier tubes are also prolly going to be out of life soon.

Could you guys please give me some tips of what are decent tubes to buy that are available now ? I guess I'll never get the 6ASG7 again. Had the 5998 Cathams before and enjoyed those too (also dead by now), but those seem to go for about 150-200$ a piece or so now. Does it make any sense to try anything cheaper ? Saw some Russian tubes on ebay for example, or is that just complete waste of money ?

Also I'm completely lost when it comes to rectifiers I have Trigon EZ80 currently. No idea what to buy next. 

Any tips would be greatly appreciated, thanks a lot.

Just to entertain you, this is what I'm driving with WA2 currently


----------



## billerb1

Flisker said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've been enjoying WA2 for at least 5 years and my favorite pair of power tubes are dead now. The famous G.E.C 6ASG7 ran out of life few days ago and my rectifier tubes are also prolly going to be out of life soon.
> 
> ...


Hey don't give up on finding a deal on GEC 6AS7G's.  I've been exclusively using them for quite a few years now on my WA2 and do see them going now for $500 per TUBE...but I just got a near NOS pair last week on ebay for $325.  So it can be done...you just have to be really vigilant...and lucky.  As to rectifiers I've been using Marconi U709's but they are really expensive and almost impossible to find.  Prior to that I really liked the pair of Philips Miniwatt EZ81's I was using and they are affordable and relatively easy to find.  Good luck !!!


----------



## Flisker (Nov 25, 2020)

billerb1 said:


> Hey don't give up on finding a deal on GEC 6AS7G's.  I've been exclusively using them for quite a few years now on my WA2 and do see them going now for $500 per TUBE...but I just got a near NOS pair last week on ebay for $325.  So it can be done...you just have to be really vigilant...and lucky.  As to rectifiers I've been using Marconi U709's but they are really expensive and almost impossible to find.  Prior to that I really liked the pair of Philips Miniwatt EZ81's I was using and they are affordable and relatively easy to find.  Good luck !!!



Oh wow, I would buy pair for 325$, but I remember checking few months ago and seeing like 3000$ for NOS pair, so I kinda gave up on idea of buying those. Maybe that was just some bs price then.

About the Miniwatt EZ81's, are there more variations or is it just one type like they make them only with O getter and it's not like O getting is crap and D getter is amazing or something like that ? 

Are these the ones you had ?  https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Philip...681807?hash=item548fcabe8f:g:D-kAAOSww2ZfuVz5

Thank you for all the tips !


----------



## Astral Abyss

Flisker said:


> Oh wow, I would buy pair for 325$, but I remember checking few months ago and seeing like 3000$ for NOS pair, so I kinda gave up on idea of buying those. Maybe that was just some bs price then.
> 
> About the Miniwatt EZ81's, are there more variations or is it just one type like they make them only with O getter and it's not like O getting is crap and D getter is amazing or something like that ?
> 
> ...


If you haven't tried the RFT EZ81s, you owe it to yourself to take a listen.  They're my favorite rectifiers by far.  East German made.

https://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=945


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 26, 2020)

Flisker said:


> Oh wow, I would buy pair for 325$, but I remember checking few months ago and seeing like 3000$ for NOS pair, so I kinda gave up on idea of buying those. Maybe that was just some bs price then.
> 
> About the Miniwatt EZ81's, are there more variations or is it just one type like they make them only with O getter and it's not like O getting is crap and D getter is amazing or something like that ?
> 
> ...





Astral Abyss said:


> If you haven't tried the RFT EZ81s, you owe it to yourself to take a listen.  They're my favorite rectifiers by far.  East German made.
> 
> https://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=945



Yes those are the Philips Miniwatts that I had...or ones very similar.  Although I didn't try the RFT  EZ81's Astral Abyss mentioned, I did like the RFT EZ80's very much...and the RFT's tend to be very affordable.  Here's a current ebay listing for the RFT EZ81's German made that Astral Abyss talked about:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EZ81-RFT-F...749682?hash=item4b86996f72:g:pl8AAMXQS6pRn7KN

As to the GEC 6AS7G's the current rate seems to be about $500 per tube on most ebay listings...which is nuts.  But I lucked into my pair...probably because the seller labeled them as Genelex, not GEC, in
the listing headline...which probably cost him quite a bit of confusion and decreased his listing's exposure.  Happens all  the time.  Just keep your eyes opened and be patient.  I was using Tung Sol 7236's before switching to the GEC 6AS7G's and
really liked them.  If you live in the USA and are interested in them, send me a PM and we can discuss.


----------



## Flisker

Astral Abyss said:


> If you haven't tried the RFT EZ81s, you owe it to yourself to take a listen.  They're my favorite rectifiers by far.  East German made.
> 
> https://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=945



Thank you for tip, will try to get those.


billerb1 said:


> Yes those are the Philips Miniwatts that I had...or ones very similar.  Although I didn't try the RFT  EZ81's Astral Abyss mentioned, I did like the RFT EZ80's very much...and the RFT's tend to be very affordable.  Here's a current ebay listing for the RFT EZ81's German made that Astral Abyss talked about:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/EZ81-RFT-F...749682?hash=item4b86996f72:g:pl8AAMXQS6pRn7KN
> 
> As to the GEC 6AS7G's the current rate seems to be about $500 per tube on most ebay listings...which is nuts.  But I lucked into my pair...probably because the seller labeled them as Genelex, not GEC, in
> ...



Ok, will give them a try also.

Do you have some bot set up to search for those or you just manually go thru ebay searching for those ? Genelex = GEC ?

Unfortunately I'm in EU, far away, but thank you for the offer.






Btw, so far I got https://www.ebay.com/itm/133583794280 , auction got kinda hot at the end, so not sure if I'm overpaying or not, but I remember that Telefunken was well regarded brand, hopefully it extends to these tubes also.


----------



## OldSkool

Flisker, I think you will like those Tellies. I'm running the same in my WA2. Well, TFK EZ80 instead of EZ81...but I believe they are interchangeable. Enjoy!

Oh, and anything Bill recommends...just buy it.


----------



## billerb1

OldSkool said:


> Flisker, I think you will like those Tellies. I'm running the same in my WA2. Well, TFK EZ80 instead of EZ81...but I believe they are interchangeable. Enjoy!
> 
> Oh, and anything Bill recommends...just buy it.


Lmao.  JC you're still a trip.  Hope all is well my friend !!!  This Covid bs is seriously cutting into my retirement !!!!!


----------



## Flisker

OldSkool said:


> Oh, and anything Bill recommends...just buy it.



That was my plan


----------



## Flisker

Alright, new listing popped up on eBay.

Tung-Sol 5998, NOS, Matched, at least it says so, very nice seller with good feedback, so I pulled the trigger. Hope the tubes are really NOS and will last long.

325$


----------



## maxnak4 (Mar 29, 2021)

What power tubes are you guys running that aren't 5998s? As much as I'd love to spend $500 on a wear item, well, I wouldn't. So far I've tried RCA 6as7g (my favorite, but after trying 5 pairs I still haven't found any that don't hum), GE 6080, Svetlana 6n5p, and have some Mullard 6080s on the way.


----------



## BIG POPPA

6as7 Variant, Tungsol 5998A's rock very nicely, Mullards are good, Look up GEC A1834, holy grail best of the best then Bendix 6080W


----------



## StanT

I'm using GEC A1834s, very nice: but pricey. 5998s would be my second choice, followed by Tung-Sol 7236s. The 7236s are almost reasonable.

Didn't care much for the Bendix 6080, lot's of bass; but flabby to my ear. Different strokes and all.


----------



## maxnak4

Those are all crazy expensive or unavailable from what I've seen


----------



## MIKELAP (Mar 29, 2021)

maxnak4 said:


> Those are all crazy expensive or unavailable from what I've seen


Pricing sure changed alot since i bought a couple pairs  5 years ago


----------



## billerb1

StanT said:


> I'm using GEC A1834s, very nice: but pricey. 5998s would be my second choice, followed by Tung-Sol 7236s. The 7236s are almost reasonable.
> 
> Didn't care much for the Bendix 6080, lot's of bass; but flabby to my ear. Different strokes and all.



My thoughts exactly.  Presently using the GEC 6AS7G's and would never consider switching.  They are so PURE in the WA2.  Started though with the TS 5998's and then switched to the TS 7236's.  Actually preferred the 7236's...and as StanT said, the 7236's are still affordable.


----------



## Bonddam

I'm not liking the bass on 5998, tubes I enjoy are 6h13c and 6as7g.


----------



## hodgjy

Sort of a random question for you tube rollers. A while back, I ordered a pack or randomly assorted EZ80 rectifiers. The company had a great price under "assorted brands." I didn't know what I would receive until I got them.

Anyway, I reveived a NOS Miniwatt _Made in Brazil_ EZ80. Does anyone have experience with this? How does it sound? Yes, I know I can try it myself, stupid, but I don't want to waste my time burning it in if it's a dud to begin with.


----------



## Bonddam

If it sounds like crap then maybe it will sound less crappy with burn in. Got a bunch of 6080 that suck I don’t think burn in will make them change when I have tubes that sound great fresh.


----------



## Bonddam

I don't like the 5998 with this amp too gooey. I'm using 6H13C and it's got the dynamics bass punch. 5998 really good on the Euforia but not the old WA2. Maybe the new one is different as they upgraded the circuit after removing the pre amp. So far 6H13C and 6as7g are my favorites.


----------



## exchez

I have a couple sets of Brimar EZ80s. One branded by GE has the date code: 5C? / 236? (? = illegible) and the other set branded as Brimar has date code: 5C4 / 1802. Both sets' internals look identical and have square getters. The Brimar branded tube sounds much more pleasing to me in the WA2 and I think it's because it's from the 1950's production. The one resource I can find online doesn't have date codes for the EZ80. Can anyone confirm that the 1802 is from the 1950s production and the 236? is from the 1960s or 70s?


----------



## billyleungkt

Hi guys,

I'm deciding to get a OTL amp for my HS800S and upcoming ZMF verite open. I'm deciding a used WA3 or new WA2 (since they have free international shipping). What makes the WA2 over WA3? There are 6 tubes. The tube rolling cost is going to be high. What do you suggest the 1st pair of tubes to roll that is most noticeable in SQ? Thanks!


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 31, 2021)

billyleungkt said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm deciding to get a OTL amp for my HS800S and upcoming ZMF verite open. I'm deciding a used WA3 or new WA2 (since they have free international shipping). What makes the WA2 over WA3? There are 6 tubes. The tube rolling cost is going to be high. What do you suggest the 1st pair of tubes to roll that is most noticeable in SQ? Thanks!


~ Good thinking on OTL! The WA3 being discontinued will be tough to find. The WA3 uses a 6080 power tube and two 6922 driver tubes. You can use 12A#7 tubes with adapters instead as the driver tubes. The WA2 has a rectifier tube EZ80 (or EZ81), power tube 6080, and driver tube 6922 for _each_ _channel._ Michael Liang at Woo Audio has described the WA2 as “two WA3s on one chassis”.
~ The cost of tube rolling can be moderated by a little research and effort. For example, NIB (new in box) rectifier tubes from RFT can be found for $15 each. NIB driver tubes can be found from RFT or from Tungsram at $15 each or $25 each. These driver tubes will require adapters (12A## -> ECC88): anywhere from $15 to $28 each. The 6080 (or equivalent) power tubes _can_ be expensive: Tung Sol 5998s are a case in point. RCA or Sylvania 6AS7Gs will definitely bring down the cost and offer a different sonic ‘flavour’ which you may or may not like.
~ I have owned a WA3 and currently own a WA2. I did own both for five months. Sonically, the WA2 and WA3 clearly are from the same ‘family’. To my ears, the WA2 has greater ‘heft’ or ‘force of delivery’ than does the WA3 at a given volume level. The dynamic range offered by the WA2 is wider. Possibly because of the tube rectification, the bass quality and extension from the WA2 is higher and deeper. In all, the WA3 is wonderful and enjoyable. The WA2 is more so. [$ = USD]


----------



## jonathan c

To @billyleungkt:  The synergy between the WA2 and the ZMF Verite Open should be astounding. My favourite h/p/a -> h/p coupling is WA2 and ZMF Auteur 😄.


----------



## bpiotrow13

jonathan c said:


> To @billyleungkt:  The synergy between the WA2 and the ZMF Verite Open should be astounding. My favourite h/p/a -> h/p coupling is WA2 and ZMF Auteur 😄.


I have verite open and using them with wa3. Just switched to wa2 (awaiting delivery). Can not wait to listen and need to stock myself with tubes


----------



## bpiotrow13

billyleungkt said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm deciding to get a OTL amp for my HS800S and upcoming ZMF verite open. I'm deciding a used WA3 or new WA2 (since they have free international shipping). What makes the WA2 over WA3? There are 6 tubes. The tube rolling cost is going to be high. What do you suggest the 1st pair of tubes to roll that is most noticeable in SQ? Thanks!


I have bought wa3 (second hand) with stock tubes and it sounds nice. Have just bought wa2 so probably will be selling wa3.


----------



## billyleungkt

bpiotrow13 said:


> I have verite open and using them with wa3. Just switched to wa2 (awaiting delivery). Can not wait to listen and need to stock myself with tubes


Congrats. What made you move to wa2? What tubes are you going to try? Thanks.


----------



## bpiotrow13

billyleungkt said:


> Congrats. What made you move to wa2? What tubes are you going to try? Thanks.


Acyially, I made a move for two reasons: a look and that some say wa2 is an upgrade. I have TS5998, 6as7g and 7236. Also RCA 6a7 (though a bit noisy) 6n13s. For drivers I have mullards. WA3 sounded really good with stock tubes being 7236 (I do not know brand) and phillips 6922.


----------



## billyleungkt

bpiotrow13 said:


> Acyially, I made a move for two reasons: a look and that some say wa2 is an upgrade. I have TS5998, 6as7g and 7236. Also RCA 6a7 (though a bit noisy) 6n13s. For drivers I have mullards. WA3 sounded really good with stock tubes being 7236 (I do not know brand) and phillips 6922.



I currently have Cayin HA-1A MK2 which is a transformer coupled amp. I'm not accessable to woo audio amp in Hong Kong. I wonder how good they sound. I'm ordering ZMF Verite Open and I have HD800S now. everybody says to go with OTL with DD HPs..... Should I order a WA2?! LOL 🙃 

btw, where do you suggest me to get those tubes. I worry the counterfeit one. I love the TS5998 from what I read so far. they are costly too...


----------



## bpiotrow13

billyleungkt said:


> I currently have Cayin HA-1A MK2 which is a transformer coupled amp. I'm not accessable to woo audio amp in Hong Kong. I wonder how good they sound. I'm ordering ZMF Verite Open and I have HD800S now. everybody says to go with OTL with DD HPs..... Should I order a WA2?! LOL 🙃
> 
> btw, where do you suggest me to get those tubes. I worry the counterfeit one. I love the TS5998 from what I read so far. they are costly too...



I had no chance to listen to wa3 before I got it and I have never listened to wa2 yet. I have bought wa2 without listening and tomorrow (hopefully, when it is delivered) will be the first time I will see wa2. 

I have verite open, I really like how they sound with wa3 and decided to go for wa2. I like how OTL amps sound, although It is very subjective. Verite Open are said to sound well with many amps. If it is worth to go for OTL You should decide Yourself.

If You worry about tube prices do not go for these amps... wa3 is easier to deal with in terms of tubes, as it has no rectifier tubes and only need one power tube.

I get tubes mostly on ebay. But the prices are going up and up unfortunately. Power tubes for those amps are not in current production. You only are able to buy old stuff. False tubes are not uncommon unfortunately. If You worry reconsider OTL or try wa3 first, but it is up to You. Without trying OTL You will never know. I am quite sure there is a possiblity to listen to OTL amp in HK.


----------



## billyleungkt

bpiotrow13 said:


> I had no chance to listen to wa3 before I got it and I have never listened to wa2 yet. I have bought wa2 without listening and tomorrow (hopefully, when it is delivered) will be the first time I will see wa2.
> 
> I have verite open, I really like how they sound with wa3 and decided to go for wa2. I like how OTL amps sound, although It is very subjective. Verite Open are said to sound well with many amps. If it is worth to go for OTL You should decide Yourself.
> 
> ...


Thanks bro. Im sure you will enjoy wa2 more! 😆👍🏻


----------



## billyleungkt

Hello WA2 guys. I just place my order on wa2. I have read TS5998 is the best currently available. But i also see some variations. 1. Top getter 2. Bottom getter. which is the better one as 2. Is more exp. 

For driver tubes, do you suggest these 2 to get different sound signature? What else i can look for?
1. Amperex 6dj8 bugle boy
2. JAN-Sylvania 7308

Will you upg the rectifier the last?


----------



## thecrow (Nov 13, 2021)

billyleungkt said:


> Hello WA2 guys. I just place my order on wa2. I have read TS5998 is the best currently available. But i also see some variations. 1. Top getter 2. Bottom getter. which is the better one as 2. Is more exp.
> 
> For driver tubes, do you suggest these 2 to get different sound signature? What else i can look for?
> 1. Amperex 6dj8 bugle boy
> ...


Yes to rectifier being last

ts5998 are a fair option as my beloved. gec6as7g are generally way too expensive now 

i own quite a few tubes including pinched waist.
my best bang for buck are my red valvo e188cc d-getter, 1960 from memory, but i think generally speaking e188cc from 60’s come up well. strong detail with a nice touch of the holland tone.


(first photo shows d getter)










my first pair of 6dj8 were bugle boys but they were nothing special but they only cost me about $50.

even holland e88cc tubes are good but ecc88 again are nothing special too from my experience and for my preference. Ymmv


----------



## exchez

billyleungkt said:


> Hello WA2 guys. I just place my order on wa2. I have read TS5998 is the best currently available. But i also see some variations. 1. Top getter 2. Bottom getter. which is the better one as 2. Is more exp.
> 
> For driver tubes, do you suggest these 2 to get different sound signature? What else i can look for?
> 1. Amperex 6dj8 bugle boy
> ...



There are a few variations of the 5998, but the WA2 community doesn't seem to have a clear preference of one over the other, so they probably all sound similar. If you're having a hard time finding an affordable pair of 5998 tubes, the Svetlana 6H13C is the closest affordable tube I've come across. For your driver, the late 1960s Amperex ECC88 with orange globe ink (not the  A-frame) is great for the money. I hear the older the Bugle Boys, the better, so it might be worth the extra cash to get one from the 1950s or early 1960s.


----------



## MisterMoJo

I got some Tung Sol 5998's and may have already messed them (or something) up.  They were fine (not noisy) the first full day.  Then that night I listened to the amp with my LCD-4's.  I had to turn the volume about half way up to get some decent volume.  No problems then.  The next day I turned on the amp with the headphones plugged in that I bought the amp for and listened to the first day: HD800 S.  I did not have the headphones on but I heard a loud noise from the headphones and hear noises when there is no music playing from both channels (not at the same time.)  They are quiet when listening to music.  But there are noises on startup and shut down when I have the volume all the way down.  Did I mess  something up or are these tubes bad or is nothing wrong?  I heard no noise with the stock tubes and have had the amp only a week.  Had the Tung Sol tubes for a few days.


----------



## exchez

MisterMoJo said:


> I got some Tung Sol 5998's and may have already messed them (or something) up.  They were fine (not noisy) the first full day.  Then that night I listened to the amp with my LCD-4's.  I had to turn the volume about half way up to get some decent volume.  No problems then.  The next day I turned on the amp with the headphones plugged in that I bought the amp for and listened to the first day: HD800 S.  I did not have the headphones on but I heard a loud noise from the headphones and hear noises when there is no music playing from both channels (not at the same time.)  They are quiet when listening to music.  But there are noises on startup and shut down when I have the volume all the way down.  Did I mess  something up or are these tubes bad or is nothing wrong?  I heard no noise with the stock tubes and have had the amp only a week.  Had the Tung Sol tubes for a few days.


If you hear noise with the volume at minimum, then it's very likely a tube issue. What kind of noise do you hear?


----------



## MisterMoJo

exchez said:


> If you hear noise with the volume at minimum, then it's very likely a tube issue. What kind of noise do you hear?


Popping and hissing.


----------



## exchez (Nov 15, 2021)

Agh, duplicate post. Apologies.


----------



## exchez

MisterMoJo said:


> Popping and hissing.


Some noise like that is normal on startup and shutdown, but should subside after a minute or two. Sometimes when using NOS tubes for the first time, it can take a week or two before it settles down. If it doesn't get better over time then the tubes are probably defective. One possible thing that can make the popping worse is if your rectifier tubes are warm but the power tubes are cold. Like if you listened to music for a while then changed the power tubes and turned on your amp before you let the rectifiers cool down completely


----------



## MisterMoJo

exchez said:


> Some noise like that is normal on startup and shutdown, but should subside after a minute or two. Sometimes when using NOS tubes for the first time, it can take a week or two before it settles down. If it doesn't get better over time then the tubes are probably defective. One possible thing that can make the popping worse is if your rectifier tubes are warm but the power tubes are cold. Like if you listened to music for a while then changed the power tubes and turned on your amp before you let the rectifiers cool down completely


Thanks for the help


----------



## MisterMoJo

Just a general question for reference: when facing the front of the amp, are the tubes on the left the left channel and the tubes on the right the right channel, or visa versa?


----------



## headpower

How can you tell if a tung sol 5998 tube is fake?


----------



## exchez

headpower said:


> How can you tell if a tung sol 5998 tube is fake?


The main one is that the broad side of the triode plates should be solid (no slots) with two rows of three dots (aka "domino" plates). Less expensive tubes do not exhibit that design.


----------



## billyleungkt

exchez said:


> The main one is that the broad side of the triode plates should be solid (no slots) with two rows of three dots (aka "domino" plates). Less expensive tubes do not exhibit that design.


Hello exchez. Thanks for helping someone like me who just got into tube world. btw, I have read there are few variations of TS5998. something like 
1. o-getter
2. d-getter
3. top getter
4. bottom getter
Which one should go (sounds the best) for for WA2?
cheers,
Billy


----------



## headpower

exchez said:


> The main one is that the broad side of the triode plates should be solid (no slots) with two rows of three dots (aka "domino" plates). Less expensive tubes do not exhibit that design.








Are these tung sol 5998 legiit? I see the domino plate , not sure what you do mean by solid vs slot though


----------



## exchez

billyleungkt said:


> Hello exchez. Thanks for helping someone like me who just got into tube world. btw, I have read there are few variations of TS5998. something like
> 1. o-getter
> 2. d-getter
> 3. top getter
> ...



All 5998s should sound good so I wouldn't worry about finding a specific getter type. Keep in mind that the triode construction of tube is what matters most, as the getters don't play any active part in the operation or sound of a tube. Collectors use the getters to help determine the production year and design of other components which aren't visible so that's why people tend fixate on them, but I haven't heard of any type of 5998 being better than another. The Western Electric 421A is very similar--if not identical--to the 5998, but some say it sounds slightly better. It's certainly harder to find and more expensive if nothing else!


----------



## exchez

headpower said:


> Are these tung sol 5998 legiit? I see the domino plate , not sure what you do mean by solid vs slot though


Seems legit to me. If I were a scammer, I try to pass a Russian tube or an RCA off as a 5998, but, to my knowledge, none of those cheaper tubes have domino plates so you don't have to worry about that.


----------



## billyleungkt

exchez said:


> All 5998s should sound good so I wouldn't worry about finding a specific getter type. Keep in mind that the triode construction of tube is what matters most, as the getters don't play any active part in the operation or sound of a tube. Collectors use the getters to help determine the production year and design of other components which aren't visible so that's why people tend fixate on them, but I haven't heard of any type of 5998 being better than another. The Western Electric 421A is very similar--if not identical--to the 5998, but some say it sounds slightly better. It's certainly harder to find and more expensive if nothing else!


Thank you again


----------



## headpower

Is it normal for the Tung sol 5998 to hiss at no volume, I noticed the 5998 hiss when no music is playing or at low volume, but the hiss doesn't increase when I turn the volume up. When I swap the wa2 stock tube (Jan 6080) back,  I didn't notice any hiss at all at lower volume, should I be worried about this hiss?


----------



## jonathan c

headpower said:


> Is it normal for the Tung sol 5998 to hiss at no volume, I noticed the 5998 hiss when no music is playing or at low volume, but the hiss doesn't increase when I turn the volume up. When I swap the wa2 stock tube (Jan 6080) back,  I didn't notice any hiss at all at lower volume, should I be worried about this hiss?


The hissing is not an inherent characteristic of the TS 5998 in my experience. The ‘amplification factor’ of the TS 5998 is 5.5; that for a TS 6080WA is 2.0. That could be a reason why you do not hear the hiss with the ‘stock’ JAN 6080.


----------



## exchez

headpower said:


> Is it normal for the Tung sol 5998 to hiss at no volume, I noticed the 5998 hiss when no music is playing or at low volume, but the hiss doesn't increase when I turn the volume up. When I swap the wa2 stock tube (Jan 6080) back,  I didn't notice any hiss at all at lower volume, should I be worried about this hiss?


Should be silent with volume at min. I start to get some tube noise (faint hum) when turned up around 11-12o'clock, but that's far beyond listening level for me. It may be the 5998 or may not. If the hum is the same in both channels then it would be odd for both 5998s to have the same intrinsic noise problem. Microphony can be audible even when the amp volume is at min. Try touching or _lightly_ tapping the tube with your finger. If you can hear the tapping, then you know it's the 5998 for sure. Sometimes, taking out the tubes and putting them back in helps with hum, but typically it's in one channel and not both.


----------



## headpower

I switched to a second set of 5998 and it doesn't hiss anymore , but the crazy thing is I can hear a loud pop on the left side once, and then it pop on the right side.  Now both tubes seem to operate fine without any weird pop/crackle noise for 2 hours.


----------



## exchez

headpower said:


> I switched to a second set of 5998 and it doesn't hiss anymore , but the crazy thing is I can hear a loud pop on the left side once, and then it pop on the right side.  Now both tubes seem to operate fine without any weird pop/crackle noise for 2 hours.


Some popping is normal at first, but should go away after a week or two.


----------



## headpower

Thanks for your help, when I first heard the pop, I thought I got strike by lightning haha.


----------



## billyleungkt

Something on my doorstep today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











 Woohoo!! Merry Christmas guys!!


----------



## Bonddam

headpower said:


> Is it normal for the Tung sol 5998 to hiss at no volume, I noticed the 5998 hiss when no music is playing or at low volume, but the hiss doesn't increase when I turn the volume up. When I swap the wa2 stock tube (Jan 6080) back,  I didn't notice any hiss at all at lower volume, should I be worried about this hiss?


Well had two different wa5 Le a gen 1 and gen 2. My problem tubes where problem on gen 2 but no problems on gen 1. So something in the design of the amps.


----------



## Bonddam

Does any one looking for real mullardEZ80 rectifiers that I purchased from Woo. They have been sitting in my tube closet and probably will never get used. I went and bought wa234 so my end game amp is coming in 4 weeks. I'm sitting on tubes I have no use for and selling on eBay gets me paying more in fees then what I can get back.


----------



## jclyle

I have a Valhalla 2 along with 12Axx to 6922 adapters, and a stash of 12Axx tubes.
Does the WA2 behave when using these adapters with 12AT7 or 12AU7 tubes? I don't see them listed in the compatibility chart on wooaudio.com


----------



## jonathan c

jclyle said:


> I have a Valhalla 2 along with 12Axx to 6922 adapters, and a stash of 12Axx tubes.
> Does the WA2 behave when using these adapters with 12AT7 or 12AU7 tubes? I don't see them listed in the compatibility chart on wooaudio.com


The 12AT7 / 12AU7 tubes are ‘rewired’ for 6V use via those adapters. Also the filament current (300 mA) is under that of the 6922 / 6DJ8 tube (365 mA). The 12AT7 / 12AU7 + adapters are fine in the WA2.


----------



## billerb1

jclyle said:


> I have a Valhalla 2 along with 12Axx to 6922 adapters, and a stash of 12Axx tubes.
> Does the WA2 behave when using these adapters with 12AT7 or 12AU7 tubes? I don't see them listed in the compatibility chart on wooaudio.com


They are all that I use...after going thru so many 6922 types. My favorites:
*https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274128808004
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/...mium-rft-german-gold-pin-nos-valve-tube-lc39/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325012251227?hash=item4bac3d625b:g:l5AAAOSw-Opg6ygQ*

Bigger, more open sound. More nuance, much more natural timbre. More like being in the studio. Good luck.


----------



## exchez

A couple things came in the mail today:

Sorbothane! I did a little internet research and found out that the stuff is very good at vibration insulation. Just took a guess that duro 50 at 1/4 thickness would work well for my needs and it seems to be the right amount (you can kinda see it underneath the shelf legs). I'm hoping this will let me use my mechanical keyboard without upsetting any of my slightly microphonic tubes.





But more exciting than Sorobothane is that I finally pulled the trigger on a pair of Brimar CV455 tubes (yes, those triple micas from Footscray!) which also arrived today. Just popped them in for an hour and I'm very impressed. They sound every bit as good as the 1950's Amperex White Label (PQ) 6992 tubes and possibly better. Time will tell.



I'm excited to try out a few more 12AT7 tubes that @jonathan c and @billerb1 have mentioned as well. The better specimens are a little pricey to get in matched pairs, but compared to an E188CC Telefunken or PW 6922, price ain't that bad.

Cheers y'all


----------



## nieveulv

hey all. just purchased the Verite Open headphone from ZMF and loving it!!! However, on my Wa2 it sounded kinda , non 3d for lack of better terms. and mids do tends to come forward a little. My wa2 have the following tubes

- tung sol 7236
- siemens e88cc platinum
- rectifier was modified to solid state due to a broken tube, will be changing these rectifier to new tubes.

What can be done to enhance 3d soundstage and reduce forwardness a little. Any recommended rectifier tubes that helps with this. I'm pretty sure the solid state rectifier may have something to do with the lack of 3dness and seperation, and i forgot the sound before the tubes broke (never tested with verite before) . For now I'm thinking either the rft ez80 or the philip miniwatts ez80 as those are easy to get.



Thanks for any helpp.


----------



## jonathan c (Mar 20, 2022)

nieveulv said:


> hey all. just purchased the Verite Open headphone from ZMF and loving it!!! However, on my Wa2 it sounded kinda , non 3d for lack of better terms. and mids do tends to come forward a little. My wa2 have the following tubes
> 
> - tung sol 7236
> - siemens e88cc platinum
> ...


Tube rectification should really help. High high recommendation: RFT EZ81 ‘foil’ getter. If not that, RFT EZ81 ‘halo’ getter. Inexpensive and excellent / unbelievably good. EDIT:  Also, try Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray) or RFT ECC81 ‘foil’ getter / ‘halo’ getter with 12A#7 (top) => E88CC (bottom) adapters. Moving off the 6922 / 6DJ8 tube type will yield improvements.


----------



## exchez

jonathan c said:


> Tube rectification should really help. High high recommendation: RFT EZ81 ‘foil’ getter. If not that, RFT EZ81 ‘halo’ getter. Inexpensive and excellent / unbelievably good. EDIT:  Also, try Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray) or RFT ECC81 ‘foil’ getter / ‘halo’ getter with 12A#7 (top) => E88CC (bottom) adapters. Moving off the 6922 / 6DJ8 tube type will yield improvements.


@jonathan c any good advice on where to find an RFT EZ80 with foil getters? I have a pair from the 50s but they are D getters.


----------



## jonathan c

exchez said:


> @jonathan c any good advice on where to find an RFT EZ80 with foil getters? I have a pair from the 50s but they are D getters.


The sellers that I have used are (were?) in Russia and in Ukraine. On EBay, I have had excellent items and service from ‘delax777mechanics’ (Ukraine).


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 21, 2022)

Here's a link for RFT ECC81 foil disc getters.  Can't vouch for the seller however.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/234442698371?hash=item3695dfae83:g:~hcAAOSwKP5iG7wC

Here are the adapters you will need to use them in your WA2.
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


----------



## GPJ7

Flavor of the month ... miniwatt EZ80 hiding ...


----------



## exchez

billerb1 said:


> Here's a link for RFT ECC81 foil disc getters.  Can't vouch for the seller however.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/234442698371?hash=item3695dfae83:g:~hcAAOSwKP5iG7wC
> 
> Here are the adapters you will need to use them in your WA2.
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


I bought a couple of those and I really like them. They are my main drivers since the CV455 I got from Langrex crapped out after a week (7 days and they still have responded to my email about refund). Any leads on a foil getter EZ80? I've only seen D and halo getters if those.


----------



## billerb1

exchez said:


> I bought a couple of those and I really like them. They are my main drivers since the CV455 I got from Langrex crapped out after a week (7 days and they still have responded to my email about refund). Any leads on a foil getter EZ80? I've only seen D and halo getters if those.


Nope...but I will say that once I made the move to EZ81's I've never looked back.  I'd highly recommend you keep an eye out for the RFT EZ81 foil getters.  They show up fairly regularly and aren't usually very expensive.  I'm alternating between them and Marconi U709's (which are ridiculously expensive, lol) and the RFT's really hold their own when I compare them.


----------



## exchez

billerb1 said:


> Nope...but I will say that once I made the move to EZ81's I've never looked back.  I'd highly recommend you keep an eye out for the RFT EZ81 foil getters.  They show up fairly regularly and aren't usually very expensive.  I'm alternating between them and Marconi U709's (which are ridiculously expensive, lol) and the RFT's really hold their own when I compare them.


A pair of RFT EZ81s from Jim McShane was one of the first rectifiers I rolled in my WA2. They seemed fine until I swapped them out for EI EZ80s. I got so much more clarity and detail with the EI EZ80s (esp. with classical recordings) that I never went back to EZ81s. Maybe it's time to reevaluate that judgement. I would love to try the Marconi U709. Somehow those are even rarer than the GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## bpiotrow13

GPJ7 said:


> Flavor of the month ... miniwatt EZ80 hiding ...


Looks really nice Those power tubes are very interesting. They are chatham branded but no doubt they were made by RCA, not chatham (look inside how they look). RCA used to brand their tubes with other brands a lot, but I ave never seen chatham branded RCA, just like Yours.


----------



## GPJ7 (Mar 29, 2022)

bpiotrow13 said:


> Looks really nice Those power tubes are very interesting. They are chatham branded but no doubt they were made by RCA, not chatham (look inside how they look). RCA used to brand their tubes with other brands a lot, but I ave never seen chatham branded RCA, just like Yours.



Thanks! And yes, the two in the WA2 are unquestionably RCA. I bought 3 of them from an ebay seller for $15 apiece, Jan/2022. One of them ended up being a legitimate Chatham with copper in it (and same structure, I have plenty of those) which was a nice surprise. I knew exactly what I was getting from his one advertised picture which showed the rebranded RCA with pristine silk screen. Looks just a little too good wouldn't you agree? 

But, $45 for 3 NOS 6AS7G right now is a good deal whatever it is. (Two imposters for the Woo, one legit for my Crack/SB) I don't have a tester but the pins looked new on all of them. And, they all glow well and sound great so no complaints.


----------



## bpiotrow13

GPJ7 said:


> Thanks! And yes, the two in the WA2 are unquestionably RCA. I bought 3 of them from an ebay seller for $15 apiece, Jan/2022. One of them ended up being a legitimate Chatham with copper in it (and same structure, I have plenty of those) which was a nice surprise. I knew exactly what I was getting from his one advertised picture which showed the rebranded RCA with pristine silk screen. Looks just a little too good wouldn't you agree?
> 
> But, $45 for 3 NOS 6AS7G right now is a good deal whatever it is. (Two imposters for the Woo, one legit for my Crack/SB) I don't have a tester but the pins looked new on all of them. And, they all glow well and sound great so no complaints.


Good, RCA are not bad, the only thing is that (at least my RCA) are a bit noisy. True with prices, I have recently bought 2 pairs of Chatham 6as7 for USD 130.. 

One really needs to look inside 6as7 tube to know what is that. RCA was branding tubes for everyone I guess. On the other hand I chave chatham tubes branded RCA (!), Chatham and Tung Sol. Every option possible

What do You mean by plenty?


----------



## Onik

Franatic said:


> I haven't posted here in a while, but I have been busy tube rolling. I want to thank all the posters for providing me much background info as I rolled tubes in and out, especially RU4music, MikeLap, and Heatfan12. I love my WA2 and I use it as both a headphone amp and a preamp for my speakers system. This is a very good amp and with the right tubes it is a fantastic amp. So I'll leave some quick impressions on my top 5 of each type of tube.
> 
> Power tubes:
> 1) Western Electric 421A- powerful, airy and dynamic. Huge sounstage with a 3D quality. Superb details. Intoxicated from the first listen, whether from my T1s or my speakers.
> ...



Wrong information: Mullard ECC32 is not compatible with WA 2!


----------



## cddc

Onik said:


> Wrong information: Mullard ECC32 is not compatible with WA 2!




Many folks mistakenly treat ECC32 the same as 6SN7, but they are really not!

ECC32 draws 0.95A heater current (vs 0.6A from 6SN7), so replacing 6SN7 with ECC32 can potentially overtax the transformer which can lead to transformer failure if there is not enough redundant capacity.

Also, ECC32 has an amplification factor of 32, which is much higher than 6SN7's 20. In a sense ECC32 is closer to 6C8G than to 6SN7.

So ECC32 is definitely not a direct replacement for 6SN7.


----------



## euter

I decided to sell my beloved Woo Wa2 with NOS tubes in pristine condition. Please check my classifieds, if you are interested.


----------



## Onik

euter said:


> I decided to sell my beloved Woo Wa2 with NOS tubes in pristine condition. Please check my classifieds, if you are interested.


Why?


----------



## euter

@Onik I used Woo Wa2 with my high impedance headphones - Sennheiser HD800 300ohm and Audio Technica ATH-ADX5000 420ohm. Now I’m moved to Focal Utopia 80ohm, which needs another way to good amplification.


----------



## jonathan c

euter said:


> @Onik I used Woo Wa2 with my high impedance headphones - Sennheiser HD800 300ohm and Audio Technica ATH-ADX5000 420ohm. Now I’m moved to Focal Utopia 80ohm, which needs another way to good amplification.


Woo WA6SE…


----------



## Onik

euter said:


> @Onik I used Woo Wa2 with my high impedance headphones - Sennheiser HD800 300ohm and Audio Technica ATH-ADX5000 420ohm. Now I’m moved to Focal Utopia 80ohm, which needs another way to good amplification.


I find it funny that people sell their Amps just for a HP. I never found Focal HP appealing, their design always a bit strange to me, and I can't even imagine buying a 3k+ hp LOL. WA2 can Power HP 26 ohm- 600 ohm with no issues as far as I know.


----------



## Flisker

GPJ7 said:


> Flavor of the month ... miniwatt EZ80 hiding ...


Are these 6SN7 Tung-Sols in the middle ?


----------



## bpiotrow13

Flisker said:


> Are these 6SN7 Tung-Sols in the middle ?


It is quite possible, 6sn7 can be used instead of ecc82 (through adapter) and I have ecc88/ecc82 adapter for WA2 so also ecc82 and ecc88 are interchangeable in Woo wa2.


----------



## Flisker

bpiotrow13 said:


> It is quite possible, 6sn7 can be used instead of ecc82 (through adapter) and I have ecc88/ecc82 adapter for WA2 so also ecc82 and ecc88 are interchangeable in Woo wa2.


I had no idea, gotta get me some of those adapters


----------



## AudioDuck

Onik said:


> I find it funny that people sell their Amps just for a HP. I never found Focal HP appealing, their design always a bit strange to me, and I can't even imagine buying a 3k+ hp LOL. WA2 can Power HP 26 ohm- 600 ohm with no issues as far as I know.


While obviously the Utopia and Stellia are different headphones, I tried my Stellias on the WA2 (new to my system yesterday) and was very, very pleased. It sounded pretty amazing to my ears. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## AudioDuck

GPJ7 said:


> Flavor of the month ... miniwatt EZ80 hiding ...


Just received my (new to me) WA2 yesterday afternoon. 

Tung-Sol 7236 power tubes, RFT EZ81 rectifiers, and Amperex 7308s.

I feel Iike I’m getting away with something illegal with the (relatively) reasonable price I paid. I can’t see myself needing another tube amp. Ever.

Now I’m off to update my signature…


----------



## GPJ7

Flisker said:


> Are these 6SN7 Tung-Sols in the middle ?



Yes, and they work wonderfully well. I tried after seeing user MIKELAP's post somewhere saying that he contacted Woo about their use in WA2. They said it was OK even though it is not listed in their compatibility list.


----------



## GPJ7

AudioDuck said:


> Just received my (new to me) WA2 yesterday afternoon.
> 
> Tung-Sol 7236 power tubes, RFT EZ81 rectifiers, and Amperex 7308s.
> 
> ...



WA2 is indeed one of the best IMO. Is that a modified jack? Interesting .....


----------



## bpiotrow13

GPJ7 said:


> Is that a modified jack?


I think this is the old type of jack Woo used. I had the same in my wa2 and wa6 se.


----------



## GPJ7

bpiotrow13 said:


> I think this is the old type of jack Woo used. I had the same in my wa2 and wa6 se.



Ah, interesting. Mine is the newer flush one but I do have the pre-amp.


----------



## AudioDuck

bpiotrow13 said:


> I think this is the old type of jack Woo used. I had the same in my wa2 and wa6 se.


Interesting- I’m not sure, but I also have pre-amp functionality… happy regardless!


----------



## jonathan c

AudioDuck said:


> Interesting- I’m not sure, but I also have pre-amp functionality… happy regardless!


I doubt that you will be using WA2 as a preamplifier to another amplifier. Not when WA2 —> direct to Auteur / Eikon !


----------



## AudioDuck

jonathan c said:


> I doubt that you will be using WA2 as a preamplifier to another amplifier. Not when WA2 —> direct to Auteur / Eikon !


True, though I was thinking to a power amp -> my speakers. 😊


----------



## AudioDuck (May 31, 2022)

AudioDuck said:


> Just received my (new to me) WA2 yesterday afternoon.
> 
> Tung-Sol 7236 power tubes, RFT EZ81 rectifiers, and Amperex 7308s.
> 
> ...


To stick to this thread's topic more properly: Some listening impressions after about 3-4 hours with the tubes listed above, using ZMF Auteur and Eikon, with which this amp does incredibly well:
- Very fluid, organic sound overall. There is an impressive ease of delivery across the frequency spectrum.
- Bass is very tactile, detailed, and textured. Notes are clearly differentiated, even in fast bass lines or in distorted music (think grunge rock or noisier electronica).
- Bass depth is also remarkable, with impressive "slam" that rivals good solid-state amps. From what I've read, the WA22 is even more agile/faster with more slam. I'm sure that's great, but this is plenty for me!
- With music that is mixed with a broader sound stage, there is pretty good width to the stage. Depth is also pretty well rendered- the 16/44 version of Soundgarden's "Like Suicide" (from "Superunknown") has Chris Cornell singing from a deeper position with bass/guitars extending much closer to the listener, encircling you with sound. This depth is also present with good jazz recordings, where the spaciousness of width is also very apparent.
- Vocals are natural and well-rendered, with some roll-off of treble limiting sibilance (and also sparkle, for those treble-lovers out there). This works well for me, but not all listeners will appreciate the somewhat euphonic rendering and kindness towards older/lower-quality recordings.
- High-quality recordings (and higher bit-depth, as well) benefit greatly from this amp, as it resolves micro-details quite well with this tube complement.
- Pretty good PRaT (pace/rhythm and timing) with these tubes- while certainly not the last word in speed (vs. solid-state and planars, for example- the LCD-XC with good solid-state being my benchmark), they will definitely get your toes tapping!

I would definitely recommend combining the Tung-Sol 7236s with Amperex 7308s and RFT EZ81s. The 7308s did exceptionally well in a 6922-family based amp (Feliks Echo), and their strengths of clarity, zero audible noise, and natural/organic rendering combine really well with the other tubes.

I have no experience with the other types, but from what I've seen on this thread, good 7236s are a solid choice for power tubes. I'll be rolling in EZ81s with foil getters in a day or two, thanks to advice from @jonathan c , and should see gains in bass tightness from what I've read.

Not one to be unprepared for tube shortages or rainy days, I've also bought a few added power tubes (General Electric 6AS7GAs, RCA 6AS7G (1968), and Sylvania JAN 6080WCs). Silly, I know, but I like to have some options if issues/age sets in with current tubes. I already have Mullard 6922s and Philips 6JD8s from my old amp as backups. But now I'm set (no pun intended), and excited to get the upgraded RFTs in.

Then it's time to focus fully on the music- HDTracks, here I come. You'll be the site emptying my wallet for months (years?) ahead.


----------



## bpiotrow13

AudioDuck said:


> I have no experience with the other types, but from what I've seen on this thread, good 7236s are a solid choice for power tubes. I'll be rolling in EZ81s with foil getters in a day or two, thanks to advice from @jonathan c , and should see gains in bass tightness from what I've read.
> 
> Not one to be unprepared for tube shortages or rainy days, I've also bought a few added power tubes (General Electric 6AS7GAs, RCA 6AS7G (1968), and Sylvania JAN 6080WCs). Silly, I know, but I like to have some options if issues/age sets in with current tubes. I already have Mullard 6922s and Philips 6JD8s


TS 7236 is a bit solid state sounding. The rest of the tubes You mentioned are on the warmer side. I suggest You try Tung Sol 5998, it is kind of a mix of all those tubes, warmer than 7236 but very dynamic and detailed.


----------



## jonathan c (May 31, 2022)

When not Tung Sol 5998, Mullard (rebrand Philips) 6080 takes on the power chores for WA2 _chez moi. _Another level of performance is attained when 6922 —> 12AT7 with adapters. In my case, this evening, Brimar CV455 (KB/FB: Footscray, 1956). Behind the 6080s, working their magic, are the RFT EZ81 ‘foil getter’ rectifier tubes. Warming up for an OTL** session: 

 ** Off Track Listening 🤗


----------



## AudioDuck

bpiotrow13 said:


> TS 7236 is a bit solid state sounding. The rest of the tubes You mentioned are on the warmer side. I suggest You try Tung Sol 5998, it is kind of a mix of all those tubes, warmer than 7236 but very dynamic and detailed.


Thanks, good to know! 

The main challenge I’ve found with the T-S 5998 is their scarcity and price… if anyone has a lead on a matched pair that aren’t egregiously expensive, please PM me!

Trying out the RCA 6AS7Gs right now and they aren’t bad, but have some hum with no signal present. I’ll chalk that up to a need for run-in, as they are NOS and quite pristine.

The RCAs are otherwise quite dynamic, with good clarity and frequency range. Bass is very tight/fast, though seems lacking in detail and richness/warmth vs. the T-S 7236s. A good backup tube pair if the 7236s run into issues.

(Trial of the 6080s and 6AS7GAs remains…)


----------



## bpiotrow13

AudioDuck said:


> The main challenge I’ve found with the T-S 5998 is their scarcity and price… if anyone has a lead on a matched pair that aren’t egregiously expensive, please PM me!


Here You go:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/post-16988989

A nice thread BTW.



AudioDuck said:


> Trying out the RCA 6AS7Gs right now and they aren’t bad, but have some hum with no signal present. I’ll chalk that up to a need for run-in, as they are NOS and quite pristine.


All my RCA are noisy unfortunately as well. I would say RCA are on another end to TSS7236 with respect to sound.


----------



## AudioDuck

bpiotrow13 said:


> Here You go:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/post-16988989
> 
> ...


Thanks so much! PM sent about the 5998s, and I subscribed to the thread as well.

I rolled back to my T-S 7236s until the 6080s get here. Ahhhhhh….


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 3, 2022)

Don't complicate things.  Here's what you do.
Step #1 - Rob your local 7-11.
Step #2 - GEC 6AS7G power tubes, RFT EZ81 foil getter rectifiers and pick between the following for your driver tubes,
                depending on your mood:  Telefunken ECC801S, Brimar CV455 or RFT ECC81 with foil getters. 
                You'll need the adapters for all 3 driver choices.
Step #3 - Sit back and enjoy more music than you can possibly ever digest.

(Haha, I'm only half kidding)


----------



## AudioDuck

billerb1 said:


> Don't complicate things.  Here's what you do.
> Step #1 - Rob your local 7-11.
> Step #2 - GEC 6AS7G power tubes, RFT EZ81 foil getter rectifiers and pick between the following for your driver tubes,
> depending on your mood:  Telefunken ECC801S, Brimar CV455 or RFT ECC81 with foil getters.
> ...


LOL, thanks for the tips! 🤣

I’m good on rectifier tubes (RFT EZ81 foil getters in place), and honestly my NOS Amperex PQ white shield 7308s are pretty amazing, so I think I’m good on drivers. 

It’s really all about power tubes for me to wrap things up. And frankly, the Tung-Sol 7236s sound darn good to me. This dive into deeper tube waters was to find decent backups for the 7236s, should something happen.

I tried my last inbound pair, Sylvania JAN 6080WCs. They sounded pretty close to the Tung-Sol 7236s, so the best backups of the sets I bought. 

Though after about 10-15 minutes of play, I increased the volume slightly and heard a fairly loud “pop” in one channel. The headphones were thankfully undamaged, and the sound remained at the same quality. Hopefully that’s a rare occurrence. 

After powering down/cooling down, I rolled back to 7236s, feeling pretty good about the 6080s as the alternative for the 7236s if need arises. 

Thanks for following along on the tube-noob journey! Now I’ll calm down, love the WA2 with current tubes in place, and save up for 5998s (and a fuse upgrade) in the next months/year…


----------



## jonathan c

Just when you thought that you could ‘Woo Two’ awhile……not tubes……first upgrade the fuse to a Synergistic Research Purple: 5x20mm, T 3.15A (T = timed / slow-blow). Then experience….🎼🎶🎵…!


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> Just when you thought that you could ‘Woo Two’ awhile……not tubes……first upgrade the fuse to a Synergistic Research Purple: 5x20mm, T 3.15A (T = timed / slow-blow). Then experience….🎼🎶🎵…!


Kill me and get it over with.  I think for about the last week and a half I've been totally at peace with my rig.  Thanks bro.


----------



## AudioDuck (Jun 4, 2022)

billerb1 said:


> Kill me and get it over with.  I think for about the last week and a half I've been totally at peace with my rig.  Thanks bro.


Well, heck, why not- let’s crank this Woo to 11! 

🤟🤟


----------



## HeatFan12

Changing it up a bit on a stormy weekend in MIA.  Mullard EZ80s, RCA 5670s and the work horses GE 6AS7Gs.

Good times!

Cheers!!


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Kill me and get it over with.  I think for about the last week and a half I've been totally at peace with my rig.  Thanks bro.


Spank wallet now 😵‍💫, thank me later 🥲…


----------



## GPJ7 (Jun 5, 2022)

I handcraft my "fuses" from this high quality "F.T.F.F." 12 gauge solid core copper ....


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 12, 2022)

Enjoying the WA2. _Le roulement du soir: _RFT EZ81, GEC CV2984, Amperex PQ 7308. _Les ecouteurs du soir: _HD6XX (Custom Cans UK mod) / Norne Audio Vygarde.

 🎼😀


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> Just when you thought that you could ‘Woo Two’ awhile……not tubes……first upgrade the fuse to a Synergistic Research Purple: 5x20mm, T 3.15A (T = timed / slow-blow). Then experience….🎼🎶🎵…!


I am now a believer.  Everything good about your WA2 just got better.  A lot better.


----------



## AudioDuck

billerb1 said:


> I am now a believer.  Everything good about your WA2 just got better.  A lot better.


I agree- I’ve got 6-8 hours with the WA2 post-fuse installation now, and am loving it.

I also meandered into adapter territory for input tubes, and rolled in 12AU7 Brimars (CV4003 1957 Footscray NOS units, sorry @jonathan c , not 12AT7s/CV455s- yet anyway). 

DAMN. How can the detail level over a velvety-black background with rich, glowing mids be possible? The 7308s sound like very good solid-state (but solid-state nonetheless) in comparison.

And the air around instruments and voices… we’re not in Kansas anymore, Toto!

Set for tubes now, loving this combo… and a great Norne upgrade cable for my ZMFs arriving today. Getting close to a Nirvana-like harmony here. 

(I guess I can remove the bookmarks on those spendy 5998s and such now… yay!)


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 24, 2022)

AudioDuck said:


> I agree- I’ve got 6-8 hours with the WA2 post-fuse installation now, and am loving it.
> 
> I also meandered into adapter territory for input tubes, and rolled in 12AU7 Brimars (CV4003 1957 Footscray NOS units, sorry @jonathan c , not 12AT7s/CV455s- yet anyway).
> 
> ...


The CV4003 are very good. The CV455 are _better_, to my ears. Why? It _could _be that: amplification factor is 60x versus 20x for CV4003, triple mica construction versus double mica construction for CV4003, square getter versus halo getter in CV4003, 1956 versus 1957 for CV4003 (_ceteris paribus_ older is better) 🤷🏻‍♂️.


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 24, 2022)

“And now for something completely different”. Just for _the hell of it_, a WA2 tube line-up of: Tesla EZ81, Thomson-CSF 6080WA, Telefunken ECC801S. So?…..🎼🎵,😄😄,☁️☁️.  It’s time for a multi-hour ‘music bath’.


----------



## AudioDuck

jonathan c said:


> “And now for something completely different”. Just for _the hell of it_, a WA2 tube line-up of: Tesla EZ81, Thomson-CSF 6080WA, Telefunken ECC801S. So?…..🎼🎵,😄😄,☁️☁️.  It’s time for a multi-hour ‘music bath’.


Hi Jonathan,

How would you characterize the shift with that tube lineup? I’ve read that Telefunkens can be very detailed, and cooler in their tonality than, say, Brimars or Mullards. 

Any observations you wouldn’t mind sharing?

Thanks in advance-


----------



## jonathan c

AudioDuck said:


> Hi Jonathan,
> 
> How would you characterize the shift with that tube lineup? I’ve read that Telefunkens can be very detailed, and cooler in their tonality than, say, Brimars or Mullards.
> 
> ...


The total lineup is airy, spacious with cascading ambience & reverberation. Lots of detail but not in a distracting / self-serving way. As I say about ZMF Auteur, the tube array this evening has ‘musical neutrality’.


----------



## AudioDuck

jonathan c said:


> The total lineup is airy, spacious with cascading ambience & reverberation. Lots of detail but not in a distracting / self-serving way. As I say about ZMF Auteur, the tube array this evening has ‘musical neutrality’.


Nice! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## jonathan c

The Tesla / Thomson-CSF / Telefunken lineup in post #1,077 casts spells on the Beyer DT-1770 (250 ohm): deep bass, limpid midrange and treble, great soundstage (for a closed back h/p, no less!). All possible, no doubt, because of the SR Purple fuse. My prior DT-1770 session preceded the SRP arrival…


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 25, 2022)

AudioDuck said:


> I agree- I’ve got 6-8 hours with the WA2 post-fuse installation now, and am loving it.
> 
> I also meandered into adapter territory for input tubes, and rolled in 12AU7 Brimars (CV4003 1957 Footscray NOS units, sorry @jonathan c , not 12AT7s/CV455s- yet anyway).
> 
> ...


Duck, I just passed 75 hours on my SR Purple fuse.  It is an entirely different animal now than what you're hearing at 8 hours.
Buckle up my friend.  The realism is incredible.  By far the closest to "being there" that I've experienced on my rig.  Total musical immersion.

https://highend-electronics.com/pro...h-purple-quantum-fuses?variant=39439459942518


----------



## AudioDuck

billerb1 said:


> Duck, I just passed 75 hours on my SR Purple fuse.  It is an entirely different animal now than what you're hearing at 8 hours.
> Buckle up my friend.  The realism is incredible.  By far the closest to "being there" that I've experienced on my rig.  Total musical immersion.
> 
> https://highend-electronics.com/pro...h-purple-quantum-fuses?variant=39439459942518


That’s even better news! SR notes in their docs that 100-200 hours are needed for full burn-in.

I believe someone has noted here that the fuse carries a current (and is therefore being burned in) even when a signal is not being carried, which makes perfect sense- the amp is on, the fuse is being used.

Questions for you @billerb1 / @jonathan c - Woo recommends max consecutive run time of the W2 to eight hours, correct? Have you simply leaving you WA2s on for a few hours a day to accelerate the fuse burn-in?


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 25, 2022)

I play music or long-duration 'burn-in' tracks off youtube....but I try not to go over 4 hours at a time. Usually allow for a half hour minimum cool down before continuing with the burn-in process.  I've never just left it on without playing something.  I'm not saying that won't work...it's just not what I do.
I think the SR Purple notes that I got from my seller said true burn-in was 200-300 hours.
Enjoy !


----------



## AudioDuck

billerb1 said:


> I play music or long-duration 'burn-in' tracks off youtube....but I try not to go over 4 hours at a time. Usually allow for a half hour minimum cool down before continuing with the burn-in process.  I've never just left it on without playing something.  I'm not saying that won't work...it's just not what I do.
> I think the SR Purple notes that I got from my seller said true burn-in was 200-300 hours.
> Enjoy !


Very helpful, thanks Bill!


----------



## billerb1

FWIW.  My music room can be rather warm and the WA2 can get a little hot after 4 hours.  Probably just me being overly cautious.


----------



## jonathan c

AudioDuck said:


> That’s even better news! SR notes in their docs that 100-200 hours are needed for full burn-in.
> 
> I believe someone has noted here that the fuse carries a current (and is therefore being burned in) even when a signal is not being carried, which makes perfect sense- the amp is on, the fuse is being used.
> 
> Questions for you @billerb1 / @jonathan c - Woo recommends max consecutive run time of the W2 to eight hours, correct? Have you simply leaving you WA2s on for a few hours a day to accelerate the fuse burn-in?


I have not used the WA2 more than 4 hours at a time. The power transformers do get warm, as they should, in use. They cool off completely in sixty minutes. The tubes cool off completely in quite less: usually twenty minutes. I try not to accelerate the fuse burn-in. I enjoy the WA2 / music in the here / now with the added satisfaction of knowing that more improvements are on the way 😄.


----------



## AudioDuck

jonathan c said:


> I have not used the WA2 more than 4 hours at a time. The power transformers do get warm, as they should, in use. They cool off completely in sixty minutes. The tubes cool off completely in quite less: usually twenty minutes. I try not to accelerate the fuse burn-in. I enjoy the WA2 / music in the here / now with the added satisfaction of knowing that more improvements are on the way 😄.


Thanks Jonathan!


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Duck, I just passed 75 hours on my SR Purple fuse.  It is an entirely different animal now than what you're hearing at 8 hours.
> Buckle up my friend.  The realism is incredible.  By far the closest to "being there" that I've experienced on my rig.  Total musical immersion.
> 
> https://highend-electronics.com/pro...h-purple-quantum-fuses?variant=39439459942518


Bill I have not bumped into you or been here or the lyr3 rolling thread (particularly) for quite a while.
But what the hell is going on with this fuse talk re the wa2 ???

What’s the latest craze with you kids??

I am in 230v land in Australia, if that matters……………


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 26, 2022)

Crow !!!  I thought I heard some caw-ing going on out there.  This purple fuse has improved what I hear from the WA2 to a higher degree than going from a stock 6dj8 to a holy grail tube.  Comparable to a component upgrade.  EVERYTHING is better.  Depth, transparency, nuance, impact...the sheer weight of the instruments and voices is much closer to 'live.'
Talk to Alfred at highend-electronics at 760-490-2410.  He will walk you thru what you need and what you can expect a helluva lot better than me.  But I'll tell you what Crow, I'd never give up this little purple sob.  Game-changer for under $200.  That doesn't happen much anymore.  You'll thank me later like I thanked Jonathan C.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/l...tum-fuse-brand-new-pre-orders-open-now-tweaks

https://www.synergisticresearch.com/fuses/purple-fuse/


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Crow !!!  I thought I heard some caw-ing going on out there.  This purple fuse has improved what I hear from the WA2 to a higher degree than going from a stock 6dj8 to a holy grail tube.  Comparable to a component upgrade.  EVERYTHING is better.  Depth, transparency, nuance, impact...the sheer weight of the instruments and voices is much closer to 'live.'
> Talk to Alfred at highend-electronics at 760-490-2410.  He will walk you thru what you need and what you can expect a helluva lot better than me.  But I'll tell you what Crow, I'd never give up this little purple sob.  Game-changer for under $200.  That doesn't happen much anymore.  You'll thank me later like I thanked Jonathan C.
> 
> https://www.audiogon.com/listings/l...tum-fuse-brand-new-pre-orders-open-now-tweaks
> ...


Are there any other fuses to consider that bring other characters to the table?


----------



## billerb1

Dunno.


----------



## jonathan c

•  I have tried a number of other makes also:  Audio Magic, HiFi Tunings, Telos Audio.
•  SR Purple is *it*.


----------



## AudioDuck

billerb1 said:


> Duck, I just passed 75 hours on my SR Purple fuse.  It is an entirely different animal now than what you're hearing at 8 hours.
> Buckle up my friend.  The realism is incredible.  By far the closest to "being there" that I've experienced on my rig.  Total musical immersion.


So as I can be impatient with tech and processes (though hardly ever with people, fortunately), I’ve run the WA2 with the SR Purple Fuse with a steady diet of music in four-hour blocks with at least an hour of cool-down time in between. In total the fuse has (only) about 15-20 hours of use so far.

I should preface the next statement with the fact that I am a believer in both break-in/burn-in periods, as well as cables and power accessories. 

I note this because I EXPECTED a change, but at the same time I had limited expectations- both because the break-in time was limited so far, and also because I was a bit skeptical- it’s a FUSE, for Pete’s sake. And it was $ 200, which is a lot for a fuse, but not _that _much… I mean, we spend hundreds of dollars on cables, after all.

After about eight hours of not listening to my ZMF Eikons while they were running in, I plopped them on, thinking it might sound “pretty good”. 

Nope. It was a *MAJOR* step forward. Almost jaw-droppingly (not a word, I know) so. I just put the Eikons on again, listening to Lorde’s “400 Lux” (from _Pure Heroine_), and the bass texture, detail, and depth is really amazing. I am a true believer now, and can only imagine how the sound will improve from here.

Bottom line (no pun intended): If you enjoy high-quality bass, getting an SR Purple Fuse is a must. It’s an incredible value with the WA2. 

Obviously YMMV as everyone hears things differently, but with my setup (see “signal chain” below) my view echos @billerb1 ’s. EVERYTHING IS BETTER- especially the BASS. 

Go ahead, feel free to call it snake oil, whatever- but with a resolving setup, I certainly recommend the fuse upgrade. I’m glad I did it so soon after I got the WA2, actually. 

I might even see if Schiit might help me change the Gungnir’s fuse in the future…


----------



## billerb1

Re:  SR Purple fuze......... "It's twoo, it's twoo, it's rweely troo." Madeline Khan, Blazing Saddles
Thinking the same thing about my Yggy.  I think it voids the guarantee....I think I read that somewhere.
Any info would be appreciated.


----------



## AudioDuck

billerb1 said:


> Re:  SR Purple fuze......... "It's twoo, it's twoo, it's rweely troo." Madeline Khan, Blazing Saddles
> Thinking the same thing about my Yggy.  I think it voids the guarantee....I think I read that somewhere.
> Any info would be appreciated.


I was thinking I’d be straight up with Schiit and email them. Perhaps I could buy a fuse and ship it to them with my DAC… we’ll see, but I need to wait until the holidays.


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 29, 2022)

Here are my thoughts about Gungnir/Yggy warranty. I assume that on the back of each DAC is verbiage such as “no user serviceable parts inside”. That is, user - keep out! If you open up / unscrew the DACs to get to the fuse, that is an unauthorised ‘entry’. There goes the warranty…💸.

EDIT:  The verbiage above did not deter me from putting SRP in Valhalla 2 and in Lyr 3 😏😄…


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Re:  SR Purple fuze......... "It's twoo, it's twoo, it's rweely troo." Madeline Khan, Blazing Saddles
> Thinking the same thing about my Yggy.  I think it voids the guarantee....I think I read that somewhere.
> Any info would be appreciated.


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> Here are my thoughts about Gungnir/Yggy warranty. I assume that on the back of each DAC is verbiage such as “no user serviceable parts inside”. That is, user - keep out! If you open up / unscrew the DACs to get to the fuse, that is an unauthorised ‘entry’. There goes the warranty…💸.
> 
> EDIT:  The verbiage above did not deter me from putting SRP in Valhalla 2 and in Lyr 3 😏😄…


Yeah, thought so.  Too bad cause I'd love to hear it with the SRP.  Hmmmm...


----------



## No Deal

Plugged two bargain 421A tubes into my WA2 today.  Purchased them separately.  Paid $240 plus shipping total.  One of them has broken glass in it but right now, the way this amp sounds with these tubes in it, I don't care!


----------



## jonathan c

No Deal said:


> Plugged two bargain 421A tubes into my WA2 today.  Purchased them separately.  Paid $240 plus shipping total.  One of them has broken glass in it but right now, the way this amp sounds with these tubes in it, I don't care!


Out of curiosity, what are the rectifier tubes and the driver tubes 🤔?


----------



## No Deal

jonathan c said:


> Out of curiosity, what are the rectifier tubes and the driver tubes 🤔?


I am reluctant to say but my driver de jour is the well broken in Phillips PCC 189.  I am using a Telefunken rectifier.


----------



## exchez

No Deal said:


> I am reluctant to say but my driver de jour is the well broken in Phillips PCC 189.  I am using a Telefunken rectifier.


Also out of curiosity, why are you reluctant to say your driver and rectifier tubes?


----------



## thecrow

No Deal said:


> Plugged two bargain 421A tubes into my WA2 today.  Purchased them separately.  Paid $240 plus shipping total.  One of them has broken glass in it but right now, the way this amp sounds with these tubes in it, I don't care!


As long as they are working i guess they are fine.

Some years ago I bought some cheap gec6as7g.
They often have a slight hum that is audible when no music is playing or if I am listening to it in very quiet passages.
I am happy to deal with that as these 4 were bought cheap. And sound great.
Though i sometimes wonder what an NOS pair would sound like or how much better they might be. But then again I am happy to stick with what I have. 
Ignorance is bliss.


----------



## No Deal

exchez said:


> Also out of curiosity, why are you reluctant to say your driver and rectifier tubes?


I am not at all concerned about the rectifier tube.  There are old posts that criticize the use of the PCC189 in this application because of the variable µ.


----------



## jonathan c

exchez said:


> Also out of curiosity, why are you reluctant to say your driver and rectifier tubes?


If you were using GEs, your reluctance would be understood…🤣


----------



## billerb1

Hey guys, clearing out some of my stuff.  Check my signature below.  PM me with questions.


----------



## No Deal

I am wondering what the next step up in tube amps would be and if spending $2500 to $3500 is going to get me something that will sound significantly better than this amp running what would be considered to be very good tubes?


----------



## AudioDuck

No Deal said:


> I am wondering what the next step up in tube amps would be and if spending $2500 to $3500 is going to get me something that will sound significantly better than this amp running what would be considered to be very good tubes?


Curiosity killed the wallet. 😂

Seriously though, two thoughts on this:

1. Is the synergy (apologies for the buzzword) great between your WA2 and your headphones? I find that my ZMFs mesh SO well with the WA2 that they are essentially alternatives to my Stellia, rather than “inferior” in musical enjoyment. The quality bar is ultimately the same to me, which leads me to think the benefit of a well-matched amp/headphone pair adds a significant percentage of quality/enjoyment to listening. Hence the question, as I find myself not wanting for more when listening to my ZMFs and the WA2. More music? Sure- always. More quality? No.

2. Are there other factors that might influence the quality/enjoyment of your system more? That could be higher-quality recordings, cleaner power, cabling or fuses (if you “believe in that sort of thing”- I do), source gear, etc. I’m of the firm belief that a WA2 that is maxed out with great tubes and an improved fuse and high-quality power cord represents a point where diminishing returns kick in HARD. That said, I may be deluded, as I’ve never heard a megabuck head-fi setup. But I HAVE heard a megabuck stereo speaker setup, and in timbre and frequency range (not in sound staging, obviously) my own system holds its own- and musical enjoyment follows suit.

[Quietly pushes soap box back into its storage space and backs away]


----------



## thecrow

No Deal said:


> I am wondering what the next step up in tube amps would be and if spending $2500 to $3500 is going to get me something that will sound significantly better than this amp running what would be considered to be very good tubes?


If you (for now) disregard the prices…..

for me the start of laying down great tubes for me has been the gec6as7g.

they are not cheap. The prices have gone up considerably since i bought mine 5 or so years ago.

these are the canvas or the foundation of what i build the sound on.

for me these are crucial and better than any others that i have used, including we421a and chatham/tung sols 

after that you have (even more) personal options depending on what you want and your dac/hps re the 6dj8

for me the Holland pinched waist tubes. Or some better holland (around early 1960s) tubes - say e188cc red valvos (d getter from memory). Nice rounder tones with good detail.
or you can go authentic telefunkens e188cc for neutralish sound. Or siemens cca (from memory early to mid 60’s) for vibrant lively sound.

(i have not bought tubes for 4 or 5 years so i have forgotten most of what i knew when i spent one year purely tweaking my system through tube options)

but are they value? and will you like them? I don’t know.

i’m guessing the pinched waist and the gec6as7g pairs may total about $1600 usd.

for me these are great with my hd800. Better than any solid state that i have used and were food with my auteurs, that i later sold.

for me these tubes make a noticeable improvement. Absolutely. 

I liked the stock wa2 tubes. Nothing special but pleasurable. When i tried the stock tubes after coming back from a holiday i enjoyed them. When i put the upgraded tubes back in the amp definitely improved

will you like them? i don’t know

one thing i say about tube rolling is quality over quantity.

for me, if i started again I would buy the gec6as7g, some very good holland tubes amd as a bonus to mix it up either the telefunkens or siemens depending on how lively or punchy i want it.

absolutely ymmv

this is just my 2c from my own personal experience and my own wallet


----------



## billerb1

The Crow knows !!!


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> The Crow knows !!!


And with the GECs,  the Crow crows !!!🤣


----------



## thecrow (Jul 31, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> And with the GECs,  the Crow crows !!!🤣







(or should i say, “and loving them”)

with my wa2, if i’m in for a penny, i’m in for a pound.

you know what i am talking about @billerb1


----------



## billerb1

Cawww !


----------



## No Deal (Aug 1, 2022)

AudioDuck/thecrow -

I appreciate the feedback.  I have read the words of people who waxed poetically about the more costly tube amps and wondered if I am missing something.  What I am hearing here is that with good tubes, I may not be missing much, and that my money might be spent on the occasional tube purchase.


----------



## thecrow

No Deal said:


> AudioDuck/thecrow -
> 
> I appreciate the feedback.  I have read the words of people who waxed poetically about the more costly tube amps and wondered if I am missing something.  What I am hearing here is that with good tubes, I may not be missing much, and that my money might be spent on the occasional tube purchase.


I think if you go up, say the woo wa5le, you go up in price and (subjectively - i say that as it is all subjective in this hobby but….) in quality of sound. And considerably up in the cost of tube upgrades.

I, and others, enjoy what the wa2 brings for high impedance hps like the hd800 and zmf options at a mid price point in this hobby. A well matched amp.
** unless your ears tell you otherwise **

Looking at your signature you can use the wa2 with the zmf and the bursons with everything. A good balance of options between this amps.

Unless you go to your higher end tubes - eg wa5le, Feliks envy, Auris nirvana.

Personally I have very happily kept my wa2 for my hd800 and upgraded my solid state amps for all my other headphone pursuits as i have gone along or into this hobby over the last 10 years or so, when i could afford it (or even before i could afford it)


----------



## jonathan c

I am quite (very) happy with the Woo WA2. At some point, I may find / purchase a mint pair of GEC 6AS7G tubes. If that does not happen, I get more than enough enjoyment from TS 5998, GEC 6080 / CV2984 etc on the power tube front. I feel that, with the RFT foil getter EZ81 and ECC81 pairs, I have much of the sonically attainable attained. The WA2 plays my high impedance h/p (Audeze LCD-4, Beyers, Senns, ZMFs) in the way that a _maestro _plays an instrument !!  Should I pause my ‘search’ to ‘smell the roses’? Hell no, to hear the music 🎶…😄!!


----------



## jonathan c

For a change of ‘aural’ scenery, it is Tungsram Tag-Team Time! - EZ81 and ECC81, _both _foil disc getter variety. Thomson-CSF still have the power role/roll…. 

 Absolute clarity, cascading layers, wonderful ‘extension’ at opposite frequency ends, Auteur bass approaches that of Eikon!


----------



## AudioDuck

jonathan c said:


> Absolute clarity, cascading layers, wonderful ‘extension’ at opposite frequency ends, Auteur bass approaches that of Eikon!


…and that’s saying something! 😄


----------



## Slade01

Okay guys - this is going to be a long shot, but I recently acquired an early model WA2.   It uses 6X4/EZ90 rectifier tubes.   Anyone have experience with these kind of tubes?  Or i'm guessing its the usual suspects (find a tung-sol, mullard, brimar, phillips/holland) to just search and invest in....


----------



## AudioDuck

Slade01 said:


> Okay guys - this is going to be a long shot, but I recently acquired an early model WA2.   It uses 6X4/EZ90 rectifier tubes.   Anyone have experience with these kind of tubes?  Or i'm guessing its the usual suspects (find a tung-sol, mullard, brimar, phillips/holland) to just search and invest in....


First- congratulations! The WA2 is a fine piece of gear, and if you have an earlier model you might have the pre-amp outputs on it as well, should you ever need them. 

Re: Rectifier tubes- one school of thought is to use RFT EZ80s (quite reasonably priced) or the more rare RFT EZ81s with foil getters, which I and several others here use (@jonathan c and @billerb1 have taught me The Way 😁). Those can run a bit more, and I believe there is a pair in the Classifieds here if you have budget for it… but the “regular” RFT EZ80s or EZ81s sound darn good too.

If you do some searching, Woo published a Google spreadsheet with tube compatibility for their amps as well that is super handy. I recommend finding that and bookmarking it… I removed mine since I’ve got all the tubes I need. 

If you read up in this thread as well, there are loads of wisdom to be found. Such as getting good adapters for your driver tubes and going down the 12AU7/12AT7 rabbit hole rather than sticking with the 6922 tube family… I do recommend it, though.

If I could have gone a straight path to my current tubes (see my signature, let me know if you need details), I would have saved quite a few $$$! 😬😂


----------



## Slade01

AudioDuck said:


> First- congratulations! The WA2 is a fine piece of gear, and if you have an earlier model you might have the pre-amp outputs on it as well, should you ever need them.



Thanks - these amps are indeed built very well.  It's a very impressive build / quality that was put into these amps.  Honestly, it is crazy good.



AudioDuck said:


> Re: Rectifier tubes- one school of thought is to use RFT EZ80s (quite reasonably priced) or the more rare RFT EZ81s with foil getters, which I and several others here use (@jonathan c and @billerb1 have taught me The Way 😁). Those can run a bit more, and I believe there is a pair in the Classifieds here if you have budget for it… but the “regular” RFT EZ80s or EZ81s sound darn good too.



So believe it or not, the iteration/model I have precedes even most of what is available now.   My WA2 uses EZ90/6X4, so unfortunately RFT didn't seem to make those.  And there is not a lot of info on these tubes.   



AudioDuck said:


> If you do some searching, Woo published a Google spreadsheet with tube compatibility for their amps as well that is super handy. I recommend finding that and bookmarking it… I removed mine since I’ve got all the tubes I need.
> 
> If you read up in this thread as well, there are loads of wisdom to be found. Such as getting good adapters for your driver tubes and going down the 12AU7/12AT7 rabbit hole rather than sticking with the 6922 tube family… I do recommend it, though.



I've toyed around the idea of going the adapter route again.  But it feels like its going to be liquid platinum tube rolling all over again.  Still, there were some 12AU7 tubes that I am fond of (particular the Brimars and Telefunken Smooth Plates).



AudioDuck said:


> If I could have gone a straight path to my current tubes (see my signature, let me know if you need details), I would have saved quite a few $$$! 😬😂



That's true.  But the journey is good part of that reward.   I'm in a similar boat.  I tube rolled a ton in the past with other amps.  This is pretty much a second coming, only this time around, I have a much straighter path to the tubes I want.   I'm just kicking myself for not keeping some of those favorites in the past - prices these days are crazy.  The only unknown for me with the WA2 is more with rectifier tubes, and the fact that I have the model that only briefly used EZ90 before Woo redesigned the circuit to use EZ80 makes it more...interesting.


----------



## exchez

I'm getting great results by combining RFT ECC81 drivers with GEC 6080 power tubes. With 5998 power tubes, all ECC81 drivers just sound too thin for my liking. Does anyone have experience rolling Brimar 6060 drivers with the WA2? I wonder if they would change any of the WA2's operating characteristics.


----------



## jonathan c

exchez said:


> I'm getting great results by combining RFT ECC81 drivers with GEC 6080 power tubes. With 5998 power tubes, all ECC81 drivers just sound too thin for my liking. Does anyone have experience rolling Brimar 6060 drivers with the WA2? I wonder if they would change any of the WA2's operating characteristics.


RFT / GEC is one of my favourite driver / power pairings. No experience with 6060; very pleased with Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray 1956) with GEC as well. I also get enchanting results from Raytheon 6080 s with Tungsram ECC81 s (disc foil getter) and Tungsram EZ81 s (disc foil getter).


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## Astral Abyss

Slade01 said:


> So believe it or not, the iteration/model I have precedes even most of what is available now.   My WA2 uses EZ90/6X4, so unfortunately RFT didn't seem to make those.  And there is not a lot of info on these tubes.
> 
> That's true.  But the journey is good part of that reward.   I'm in a similar boat.  I tube rolled a ton in the past with other amps.  This is pretty much a second coming, only this time around, I have a much straighter path to the tubes I want.   I'm just kicking myself for not keeping some of those favorites in the past - prices these days are crazy.  The only unknown for me with the WA2 is more with rectifier tubes, and the fact that I have the model that only briefly used EZ90 before Woo redesigned the circuit to use EZ80 makes it more...interesting.


Would you mind taking a picture or two of this unicorn model?  I'd love to see it, just because it's different.  I love one-offs like this.


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## Slade01

Astral Abyss said:


> Would you mind taking a picture or two of this unicorn model?  I'd love to see it, just because it's different.  I love one-offs like this.



You might be disappointed.  It looks like the model now, just minus some details i think tube markings on the chassis.  LOL.   I'm running a pair of Tung Sol 6080s with Philips Miniwatt SQ E88CC, and Mullard 6x4/EZ90.


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## Astral Abyss

Slade01 said:


> You might be disappointed.  It looks like the model now, just minus some details i think tube markings on the chassis.  LOL.   I'm running a pair of Tung Sol 6080s with Philips Miniwatt SQ E88CC, and Mullard 6x4/EZ90.


Thank you for the pics.  I see a lot of differences:  Volume and input knobs reversed is the big one.  Front plate looks thicker.  Different headphone jack.  No larger openings on the 6922 for adapters.  EZ90 is really close to the transformer cover.  Looks like possibly different sockets too, ceramic vs PTFE?

Cool stuff!


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## jonathan c

Slade01 said:


> You might be disappointed.  It looks like the model now, just minus some details i think tube markings on the chassis.  LOL.   I'm running a pair of Tung Sol 6080s with Philips Miniwatt SQ E88CC, and Mullard 6x4/EZ90.


Very nice looking and very well tubed!! ☑️


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## Slade01

jonathan c said:


> Very nice looking and very well tubed!! ☑️


Thanks!  This is just a warm up though.  The GEC 6080s are on deck next.


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## Slade01

I am trying out tubes to make sure they work - so the random pairing for the evening, but so far sounding really fantastic:  
Chatham 6AS7G with Amperex (Holland) PQ / Orange Print A-Frame 6DJ8 and Tung Sol 6x4.  The Amperex A-Frames are really lively/musical.  Very nice.


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## AudioDuck

Slade01 said:


> I am trying out tubes to make sure they work - so the random pairing for the evening, but so far sounding really fantastic:
> Chatham 6AS7G with Amperex (Holland) PQ / Orange Print A-Frame 6DJ8 and Tung Sol 6x4.  The Amperex A-Frames are really lively/musical.  Very nice.


The challenge is finding Chatham 6AS7Gs that don’t cost an arm and a leg, though… (read: More than $300/pair) 😂😂😂


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## Slade01 (Aug 22, 2022)

AudioDuck said:


> The challenge is finding Chatham 6AS7Gs that don’t cost an arm and a leg, though… (read: More than $300/pair) 😂😂😂


I had no idea they go for that much.   I know the 5998s for sure minimum at 300 a pair and up, didn't realize these would go for that much.  I had a Chatham 6AS7g stashed away, and I just acquired another one by luck (granted its just strong test, not NOS levels or anything) but it was priced fairly, and similarly numbers to the one I owned.

I tend to really like these, even those they have similar construction to the RCAs, but maybe something about the bottom getter types.  Coincidentally, I favored the 5998 bottom getters also over the top ones.


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## Slade01

AudioDuck said:


> The challenge is finding Chatham 6AS7Gs that don’t cost an arm and a leg, though… (read: More than $300/pair) 😂😂😂


I just saw the pair on ebay.  They do look pristine though.  Wow.  Yeah, too rich for my blood for sure.


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## jonathan c

Patience _is_ rewarded….finally here:  another pair of Tungsram EZ81 (foil disc getter)😄


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## billerb1

Since I moved to the Telefunken G73R's, my former #1 Telefunken ECC801S's (matched pair) are now available in the Classifieds.  Great deal.
PM me.


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## Arcamera

I haven't used my WA2 in a long while. (I still really admire it though. I just tend to use headphones with other amp preferences now). What headphones are people using/enjoying the WA2 with nowadays?


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## AudioDuck

Arcamera said:


> I haven't used my WA2 in a long while. (I still really admire it though. I just tend to use headphones with other amp preferences now). What headphones are people using/enjoying the WA2 with nowadays?


ZMF, ZMF, and ZMF. 😁

Seriously, Verité Closed or Eikon if others are around, or Auteur if I won’t disturb anyone!


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## AudioDuck

I’ll 


jonathan c said:


> Patience _is_ rewarded….finally here: another pair of Tungsram EZ81 (foil disc getter)😄


I’ll be curious to hear if you think they are a significant improvement over the RFT EZ81 foil getters!


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## Arcamera

AudioDuck said:


> ZMF, ZMF, and ZMF.


Yeah-- I really enjoyed my ZMF Atticus with the WA2. I usually prefer open back cans though. I'll likely get an open back ZMF at some point...


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## jonathan c

Arcamera said:


> I haven't used my WA2 in a long while. (I still really admire it though. I just tend to use headphones with other amp preferences now). What headphones are people using/enjoying the WA2 with nowadays?


Senn HD600 / HD6XX (Custom Cans UK mod / foam removal / mesh insertion); Beyer DT880 (600 ohm); ZMF: Aeolus, Atrium, Atticus, Auteur, Eikon.


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## jonathan c

AudioDuck said:


> I’ll
> 
> I’ll be curious to hear if you think they are a significant improvement over the RFT EZ81 foil getters!


Not significant but an improvement…😌


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## AudioDuck

Not sure the 5751 varieties of input tubes have been referenced too much here. I’ve seen some posts though, and wanted to note a new discovery I had- the CBS-Hytron triple-mica JHY (military spec) 5751s.

I found a pretty reasonable NOS pair, so I gave them a try/purchase. They are more detailed than my fave Brimar CV455 triple-mica Footscray-made 1957 NOS units (thanks always to @jonathan c for that pro tip- every WA2 owner should have a pair of CV455s, seriously!). These 5751s are great for less-than reference detail level headphones (think ZMF Eikon and probably Atticus as well) due to more treble detail and air overall, and VERY high degree of PRaT and speed/slam. 

They remind me of a more refined version of my Amperex White Shield PQ 7304s, but obviously in 12AT7 form. 😊

I see them as a great counterpoint to the Brimar CV455s, and they are great with my Eikons for rock/pop/electronica. The CV455s are better with the VCs for most everything else.

Feel free to PM me if you would like to track down a pair. They run about ~ $100 USD. I hear the RCA triple-mica black plate 5751s are even better, but cost 75-100 percent more a pair.


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## AudioDuck

I’ve come across a seller that has very reasonably-priced Brimar CV4033 pairs (likely 1950s Footscray production, and they sound really great!).

It was one of those “this is worth a shot in case they’re the real thing”- and after listening tonight and going over them carefully,  I’m pretty impressed. Can’t tell if they are NOS or have some hours on them, but my guess is that they are actually NOS.

PM me for details.


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## jonathan c (Nov 6, 2022)

For a diversion, a tube pair trio _sans_ adapters - RFT EZ81 (foil getter), Raytheon 6080WC, Amperex PQ 7308 (orange print / gold pins):


  [👨‍⚖️ ⚖️: Musically accomplished, coherent, dynamic, engaging.]


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## Slade01

jonathan c said:


> Not significant but an improvement…😌



Sorry to ask this, but I'm trying to decode the mysteries of life the rectifier.  Lol.  What aspect do you feel has improved when it comes to improved rectifiers?   I don't have a lot of sets, but I don't hear much differences between the pairs I have.


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## exchez

Slade01 said:


> Sorry to ask this, but I'm trying to decode the mysteries of life the rectifier.  Lol.  What aspect do you feel has improved when it comes to improved rectifiers?   I don't have a lot of sets, but I don't hear much differences between the pairs I have.


Ah, the dark art of rectifier appreciation. For me, the rectifier adds texture and "realism." A good rectifier (compared to, say, a current production EZ81) lifts veils and gives the bass a nice "bloom" for a very natural and "real" sound. You may not hear it now, but it just takes time, the right recording and the right tube for it all to become clear. After that you'll be able to hear the differences quite easily and will treasure your rectifiers as much as your driver and power tubes. Finding a good EZ80 or EZ81 can be harder than finding a good 6922 or 6080/6AS7, but when they finally appear they tend to be reasonably priced (U709s excluded!).


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## blackdragon87

I'm looking to buy one for my zmfs please pm me


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## AudioDuck

blackdragon87 said:


> I'm looking to buy one for my zmfs please pm me


For clarity- a Woo Audio WA2?


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## blackdragon87

AudioDuck said:


> For clarity- a Woo Audio WA2?



Yeah


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## cavedave

Hello There every body. I just got a WA2 and wanted to confirm about 12AU7 tubes of which I have several can yes be used in the 6922 position and will work fine with an adapter. I see one on Amazon made by jemosa looks of decent quality can any one say yes and amen to any of this?


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## jonathan c

cavedave said:


> Hello There every body. I just got a WA2 and wanted to confirm about 12AU7 tubes of which I have several can yes be used in the 6922 position and will work fine with an adapter. I see one on Amazon made by jemosa looks of decent quality can any one say yes and amen to any of this?


Yes.


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## AudioDuck

If @jonathan c says “yes”, I’m comfortable with adding an “amen”. 🤭

(I looked at the listings, and they look pretty good. There’s also a fellow in Classifieds who custom makes them, IIRC)


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## jonathan c

Fellow Head-Fier @Deyan is an adapter artisan ! His craftsmanship is 🏆🥇. I have ordered a number of adapters: 12A#7 —> 6922,  2 x 6C5 —> 6SN7 …… 👍.


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## jonathan c

AudioDuck said:


> If @jonathan c says “yes”, I’m comfortable with adding an “amen”. 🤭 ^^
> 
> (I looked at the listings, and they look pretty good. There’s also a fellow in Classifieds who custom makes them, IIRC)


^^ but I really wanted a ‘Hell, yes!’….😒


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## AudioDuck

jonathan c said:


> ^^ but I really wanted a ‘Hell, yes!’….😒


Sorry, those are custom order only with a 4-6 week lead time.


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## Slade01

AudioDuck said:


> Sorry, those are custom order only with a 4-6 week lead time.



Well if one can't wait that long.  There's always adapters from xulingmrs (on e bay)...


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## AudioDuck

Slade01 said:


> Well if one can't wait that long.  There's always adapters from xulingmrs (on e bay)...


Apologies, I was joking and referring to the lead time for getting a custom-made “Hell yes!”. 😬


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## Slade01

exchez said:


> Ah, the dark art of rectifier appreciation. For me, the rectifier adds texture and "realism." A good rectifier (compared to, say, a current production EZ81) lifts veils and gives the bass a nice "bloom" for a very natural and "real" sound. You may not hear it now, but it just takes time, the right recording and the right tube for it all to become clear. After that you'll be able to hear the differences quite easily and will treasure your rectifiers as much as your driver and power tubes. Finding a good EZ80 or EZ81 can be harder than finding a good 6922 or 6080/6AS7, but when they finally appear they tend to be reasonably priced (U709s excluded!).



Wanted to thank you for this sound advice - it definitely helps.  I am in a slightly different boat, as I have an old man WA2 that uses EZ90, but its not that different, the GEC U78 tubes seem to be the premium ones, though they can still be had at a higher (but not unobtanium costs).  Thank God.   Lol.


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## Slade01

AudioDuck said:


> Apologies, I was joking and referring to the lead time for getting a custom-made “Hell yes!”. 😬


Don't forget to charge him a pretty penny too!


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## jonathan c

AudioDuck said:


> Sorry, those are custom order only with a 4-6 week lead time.


🤬🤣🤣🤣


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## jonathan c

AudioDuck said:


> Apologies, I was joking and referring to the lead time for getting a *custom-made* “Hell yes!”. 😬


The key 👆 versus “take your ‘Hell, yes’ and get the hell out of here”…😂


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## jonathan c (Nov 18, 2022)

•  Now back to tubes: I have been on a ‘no adapter’ kick with WA2 - so it has been 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308 / ECC88 / E88CC etc in the ‘6922’ tube sockets. The thought being: “The WA2 was designed with 6922 use in mind, why not explore that?” (A detour from my usual 12AT7/ECC81/adapter use).
•  Some of the tubular gems _to my ears _from the above category are:
  ~  Amperex PQ 7308 (orange print),
  ~  Amperex PQ 7308 (green print),
  ~  Brimar CV2492,
  ~  Mullard ECC88 (BVA white print),
  ~  Philips BEL E88CC (India),
  ~  Raytheon CK 6922 (orange print),
  ~  Raytheon JAN 7308 (orange print),
  ~  Siemens E88CC (rohre),
  ~  Sylvania 7308 (yellow print),
  ~  Telefunken E88CC (diamond base),
  ~  Tungsram E88CC (red print),
  ~  Valvo E88CC (Heerlen / Holland).
•  These tubes - with their differences in ‘voicing’ - are _to me_ sonically coherent, musically convincing and lead me to pure enjoyment.


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## AudioDuck

Some great options there! I may try my good ol’ Amperex PQ (white shield) 7308s again soon. They have incredible speed and slam. 

Also to bring the thread back on track: An evening shot from listening recently (RFT EZ81 foil-getter rectifiers, Tung-Sol USN 7236 power tubes, and Brimar KB/FB CV4033 input tubes (with adapters).


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## cavedave

jonathan c said:


> •  Now back to tubes: I have been on a ‘no adapter’ kick with WA2 - so it has been 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308 / ECC88 / E88CC etc in the ‘6922’ tube sockets. The thought being: “The WA2 was designed with 6922 use in mind, why not explore that?” (A detour from my usual 12AT7/ECC81/adapter use).
> •  Some of the tubular gems _to my ears _from the above category are:
> ~  Amperex PQ 7308 (orange print),
> ~  Amperex PQ 7308 (green print),
> ...


Hey Jonathan Got me some adapters and am listening to a set of GE five star 5751 and they sound way better to my ears then the 12AU7s I have tried. I have a set of three mica black plate 5751 I am going to try and some grey plate gold pin gold letter sylvania 5751 a very nice tube will see how it goes in the w2.


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## cavedave

cavedave said:


> Hey Jonathan Got me some adapters and am listening to a set of GE five star 5751 and they sound way better to my ears then the 12AU7s I have tried. I have a set of three mica black plate 5751 I am going to try and some grey plate gold pin gold letter sylvania 5751 a very nice tube will see how it goes in the w2.


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## cavedave (Nov 23, 2022)

Right now for me the Sylvania grey plate triple mica gold pins gold lettering 5751 is leading the pack and a very fine tube indeed. I think my amp is crying. Sylvania Gold Brand 5751


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## jonathan c

cavedave said:


> Hey Jonathan Got me some adapters and am listening to a set of GE five star 5751 and they sound way better to my ears then the 12AU7s I have tried. I have a set of three mica black plate 5751 I am going to try and some grey plate gold pin gold letter sylvania 5751 a very nice tube will see how it goes in the w2.


The 5751 is an interesting 12AX7; it has gain of 70x versus the typical 100x. By comparison, a 12AT7 has 60x; and a 12AU7 has 20x. I have used a number of 12AT7s in Woo WA2 to great satisfaction.


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## jonathan c

I have been on a ‘no adapter’ kick with Woo WA2. However, with a mail arrival earlier today, a new “roll” for Woo WA2 is underway: 

RFT EZ81 (foil getter), Tung Sol JAN-CTL 6080, Western Electric 396A / 2C51 (on 5670 => 6922 adapters). _Dreamily excellent !!_


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## Slade01

jonathan c said:


> I have been on a ‘no adapter’ kick with Woo WA2. However, with a mail arrival earlier today, a new “roll” for Woo WA2 is underway: RFT EZ81 (foil getter), Tung Sol JAN-CTL 6080, Western Electric 396A / 2C51 (on 5670 => 6922 adapters). _Dreamily excellent !!_



Those WE 396A/2C51 are awesome tubes.  I used to use those exclusively on a few tube dacs I've had in the past.  How are they priced these days?


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## jonathan c

Slade01 said:


> Those WE 396A/2C51 are awesome tubes.  I used to use those exclusively on a few tube dacs I've had in the past.  How are they priced these days?


I got the WE 2C51 tube + 5670 adapter combination for $185 each.


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## jonathan c

Slade01 said:


> Those WE 396A/2C51 are awesome tubes.  I used to use those exclusively on a few tube dacs** I've had in the past.  How are they priced these days?


** MHDT Orchid etc?


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## Slade01

jonathan c said:


> ** MHDT Orchid etc?


Yeah.   Lol.  Exactly.  Had the Paradisea+ and then the Orchid for awhile.  MHDT isn't talked about much anymore, but they still make fantastic dacs.


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## jonathan c

I am really enjoying the WE 396A/2C51 in the WA2 with the other tubes. The music is more than open….IT IS….with the wondrous qualities of coherence, ease, occupancy of space…🎼😊🎵…


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## David222

Going deeper down the WA2 hole in search of the rabbit ...

--> Rolling Funkwerk ECC81 1956 (Foil Getter) -- spectacular with both Aeolus & Auteur 🎶


----------

